Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bs
October 01, 2000 - November 02, 2000
Congratulations, Ken!
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
I have..... tentatively...found some folks at a local cycle shop to cut
spokes to fit my home made rims.
NO DAMMED THANKS TO BUCHANAN SWPOKE AND RIM ! Who have again refused to
answer all letters and e-mails !
I was at all times polite to them.
At any rate,
These cycle shop guys want to make my wheels big brauney, and bullet proof.
I want to keep them light.
Question for you guys who have built spoke wheels: What diameter spokes did
you use ?
Thanks
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: spoke wheels |
9 gauge stainless steel with rolled threads.
Warren
oil can wrote:
>
> I have..... tentatively...found some folks at a local cycle shop to cut
> spokes to fit my home made rims.
>
> NO DAMMED THANKS TO BUCHANAN SWPOKE AND RIM ! Who have again refused to
> answer all letters and e-mails !
>
> I was at all times polite to them.
>
> At any rate,
> These cycle shop guys want to make my wheels big brauney, and bullet proof.
> I want to keep them light.
>
> Question for you guys who have built spoke wheels: What diameter spokes did
> you use ?
>
> Thanks
>
> Bob
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol data plates |
Doc,
Good luck with Brian. I sent him a check for two of these plates. He
never cashed my check and he never sent my plates. I did a follow-up letter
and his reply was that he was going to get around to making a new batch a
little later. Never heard from him again.
Cheers,
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TwoSwanies(at)aol.com |
Please remove me from your list as I am changing e-mail addresses.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Rib Stitching on Tailfeathers |
In a message dated 9/30/00 5:36:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
bconoly(at)surfsouth.com writes:
<< Did ya'll rib stitch the fabric to the ribs on the horiz stab, vert stab
and
control surfaces? >>
We originally covered the empenage with 2.7 oz fabric, and glued the fabric
to the ribs, edges, and overlaps...no stitches. In reconsidering the
possibility of the fabric coming loose, I tore all the covering back off,
and scalloped the gussets, and sanded a little bit off of the corners of the
framing, and re-covered with 1.8 oz material, and STITCHED (and glued) all
the ribs, using a wider spacing than I did on the wing. I also glued
triangle balsa wood on the trailing edge of the stabs, and leading edges of
the flight surfaces, (between the hinges) leaving a gap of about 1/4".
After covering in the conventional manner, I assembled the flight surfaces
with the clevis pins and cotter pins. Then I covered the gap with a strip of
the 1.8 oz material, about 1 1/2" wide, both top and bottom, between the
hinges. GAPLESS HINGES !! This manner also makes the hinges somewhat
redundant, and prevents any sticks from kicking up into the hinge area. I
weighed everything at each step of the way, and my main goal was met by
reducing the weight of the empenage (using lighter fabric) by about 230 grams
!! Build Light and Strong.
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
________________________________________________________________________________
"Rodger & Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Mount the elevator horns straight ahead without any angle, let the shackle
take care of the angle of the control wire coming back.
The Piet has enough drag without adding more from an angled control horn.
We are going to braze a thin walled bushing in the control horn to give more
bearing surface to the pin that holds the shackle on.
Rodger Childs
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"Rodger & Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
| Subject: | Re: elevator horns |
"Michael Brusilow"
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
>
>Mount the elevator horns straight ahead without any angle, let the shackle
>take care of the angle of the control wire coming back.
Sorry guys, I don't agree. I makes more sense to have a direct pull on the
horn than an angular pull.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
"Michael Brusilow"
| Subject: | Re: elevator horns |
I agree, too, Mike. I angled mine inward and that avoids a sideways
component of the load on the horne. Before I finished mine, and before I
completed the welding, I clamped the horn and tried it in Both positions
(straight and angled). In the straight position, there is enough side load
to actually flex the horn. And that is with only the weight of the elevator
being overcome. I would imagine that the dynamic loads encountered in
flight would REALLY flex a horn.
I vote angled.
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: elevator horns
>
>
> <childsway@indian-creek.net>
> >
> >Mount the elevator horns straight ahead without any angle, let the
shackle
> >take care of the angle of the control wire coming back.
>
>
> Sorry guys, I don't agree. I makes more sense to have a direct pull on the
> horn than an angular pull.
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Should the elevator wires always rub the top of tail? |
"walter evans"
I'm finally assembling the tail area and making up the control cables. The
upper wires lay/touch the top of the horizontal stab. Everything is exactly
to the prints. Until I saw one together, I assumed that the wires laid on
the tail only when not used and drooped. Is this right?
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator horns |
I'm still just a novice at this... but doesnt 71 years of successful
flying prove that it works just fine straight? Whenever I think of
modifying or beefing something up, I always remember that. 'No
accidents in 70 years caused by the ship's design', I think it goes.
Richard
--- Conoly wrote:
>
>
> I agree, too, Mike. I angled mine inward and that avoids a sideways
> component of the load on the horne. Before I finished mine, and
> before I
> completed the welding, I clamped the horn and tried it in Both
> positions
> (straight and angled). In the straight position, there is enough
> side load
> to actually flex the horn. And that is with only the weight of the
> elevator
> being overcome. I would imagine that the dynamic loads encountered
> in
> flight would REALLY flex a horn.
>
> I vote angled.
>
> Bert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To: ; "Rodger & Betty Childs"
> <childsway@indian-creek.net>
> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 3:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: elevator horns
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > <childsway@indian-creek.net>
> > >
> > >Mount the elevator horns straight ahead without any angle, let the
> shackle
> > >take care of the angle of the control wire coming back.
> >
> >
> > Sorry guys, I don't agree. I makes more sense to have a direct pull
> on the
> > horn than an angular pull.
> >
> > Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator horns |
Richard. You're probably right. If it ain't broke don't fix it ......
(unless, of course, you really want to :).
Mine is not a Piet, it is a Grega, and the horns are one piece (probably
lighter). Not two pieces welded together along the perimeter, so for mine,
the less lateral load the better. For the Piet (I have a set of plans) it
looks like there is a much beefier horn design so I do not doubt that it is
more than fine like it is designed.
I think we can all build these things just like we want to and we wind up
with one-off machines that reflect our own tastes and touches. It's up to
us to decide what we like and what we dont like about the original design.
For Instance, I probably wouldnt want to mount the Horizontal Stab with wood
screws, use 14 ga hard wire for the flying wires, or use hardware store
hinges on the aileron. Heck, I would probably not use an A engine in the
first place because it's beyond my ability to re-work a 70 year old engine
(and feel confident it will take my skinny butt anywhere safely.). Not
because none of this will work, just because I feel more comfortable doing
it a different way.
Build it like YOU want to
Later, Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard DeCosta" <aircamper(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: elevator horns
>
> I'm still just a novice at this... but doesnt 71 years of successful
> flying prove that it works just fine straight? Whenever I think of
> modifying or beefing something up, I always remember that. 'No
> accidents in 70 years caused by the ship's design', I think it goes.
>
> Richard
>
> --- Conoly wrote:
> >
> >
> > I agree, too, Mike. I angled mine inward and that avoids a sideways
> > component of the load on the horne. Before I finished mine, and
> > before I
> > completed the welding, I clamped the horn and tried it in Both
> > positions
> > (straight and angled). In the straight position, there is enough
> > side load
> > to actually flex the horn. And that is with only the weight of the
> > elevator
> > being overcome. I would imagine that the dynamic loads encountered
> > in
> > flight would REALLY flex a horn.
> >
> > I vote angled.
> >
> > Bert
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
> > To: ; "Rodger & Betty Childs"
> > <childsway@indian-creek.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 3:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: elevator horns
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > <childsway@indian-creek.net>
> > > >
> > > >Mount the elevator horns straight ahead without any angle, let the
> > shackle
> > > >take care of the angle of the control wire coming back.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sorry guys, I don't agree. I makes more sense to have a direct pull
> > on the
> > > horn than an angular pull.
> > >
> > > Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> My building progress:
> http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
>
> Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
> http://photos.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Rib Stitching on Tailfeathers |
"Richard Navratil"
Hey Bert,
I'm a bit envyous with that talk of covering and all. I hope the projects
going well
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Rib Stitching on Tailfeathers
>
> Gentlemen:
>
> Did ya'll rib stitch the fabric to the ribs on the horiz stab, vert stab
and
> control surfaces?
>
> I've seen some with and some without. I'm betting it's a good idea, huh?
>
> Thanks, Bert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: elevator horns |
In a message dated 10/1/00 2:17:06 PM Central Daylight Time,
mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< Sorry guys, I don't agree. I makes more sense to have a direct pull on the
horn than an angular pull.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) >>
I agree with you, Mike. Build it according to the plans. It's worked for 70
+ years. Safety is of the utmost importance, and when major alterations are
made, or new spars are repaired, safety is compromised.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator horns |
"walter evans"
After assuming that the horns are straight, now that this discussion is in
progress, I looked back at the prints. All of the prints show them angled,
none show them straight,,,,,,why would you put them straight?
(There is no note that states angled or straight , thats the question)
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: elevator horns
>
> You'd think I would have figured this out before now. OK, everyone, the
drawings
> show the elevator horn angled toward the center, obviously, because the
elevator
> cables come from a single point and angle out. My question is, do the
horns
> really go on at an angle, or are they straight with a shackle on them to
allow
> the cable to pull off at an angle?? There are a couple of problems with
angling
> the horn: (1) it places the bolt holes too near the edges of the spar, and
(2)
> the geometry of an angled horn is bizarre when you start pulling on it, it
tries
> to twist the whold spar out of line rather than merely rotating it. I am
> assuming that the drawing is incorrect where it shows the horns angled in,
or am
> I missing something?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: spoke wheels |
"Greg Cardinal"
We used 8 gauge, stainless steel spokes.
Greg Cardinal
>>> "oil can" 09/30 6:18 PM >>>
I have..... tentatively...found some folks at a local cycle shop to cut
spokes to fit my home made rims.
NO DAMMED THANKS TO BUCHANAN SWPOKE AND RIM ! Who have again refused to
answer all letters and e-mails !
I was at all times polite to them.
At any rate,
These cycle shop guys want to make my wheels big brauney, and bullet proof.
I want to keep them light.
Question for you guys who have built spoke wheels: What diameter spokes did
you use ?
Thanks
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Michael Brusilow
| Subject: | Re: elevator horns |
> Sorry guys, I don't agree. I makes more sense to have a direct pull on the
> horn than an angular pull.
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
But Mike, how did you make the bolt holes centered on the spar with the horn angled?
Also, like I said earlier, the angled horn pulls the spar in a strange way (although
I
admit the angled cable may do the same thing). What about twisting the top of
the horn
to point at an angle? (I have flat plate elevator horns)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Should the elevator wires always rub the top of |
tail?
I think they always rub. Some people raise the bellcrank in the aft fuselage a
couple of inches to minimize the downward pressure on the cable. Of course, always
add a strip of teflon, hidden by a piece of leather, to the stab top surface.
walter evans wrote:
>
> I'm finally assembling the tail area and making up the control cables. The
> upper wires lay/touch the top of the horizontal stab. Everything is exactly
> to the prints. Until I saw one together, I assumed that the wires laid on
> the tail only when not used and drooped. Is this right?
> walt
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Click here for Free Video!!
> http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator horns |
You guys keep saying "don't modify it" and I agree. I am not trying to modify,
I
want to know what is correct. The plans are not clear in this respect.
Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/1/00 2:17:06 PM Central Daylight Time,
> mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
>
> << Sorry guys, I don't agree. I makes more sense to have a direct pull on the
> horn than an angular pull.
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) >>
>
> I agree with you, Mike. Build it according to the plans. It's worked for 70
> + years. Safety is of the utmost importance, and when major alterations are
> made, or new spars are repaired, safety is compromised.
> Chuck G.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Redeye" <intercon(at)netactive.co.za> |
Hi all,
Some of you may remember I posted a question regarding my one Piet
that dropped its tail during 3 point landings _ any way it finally had to
hapen
About 3 weeks ago I dropped the tail wheel in and the plane flipped over
onto
its back-The damage is extenive but repairs have started and the Piet should
fly again in about 6 - 7 months time-I was only a Piet Pilot before but am
now a
builder or should I say rebuilder-Can any one tell me what the amount of
elavator travel
should be ? as this time I want to fit elavator stops.
I still have the Greager to fly while Im rebuilding the Piet so life isnt
all bad
Regards
Doug Reeve
Johannesburg South Africa.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: elevator horns |
In a message dated 10/2/00 7:00:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rambog(at)erols.com
writes:
<<
You guys keep saying "don't modify it" and I agree. I am not trying to
modify, I
want to know what is correct. The plans are not clear in this respect.
Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/1/00 2:17:06 PM Central Daylight Time,
> mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
>
> << Sorry guys, I don't agree. I makes more sense to have a direct pull on
the
> horn than an angular pull.
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) >>
>
> I agree with you, Mike. Build it according to the plans. It's worked for
70
> + years. Safety is of the utmost importance, and when major alterations
are
> made, or new spars are repaired, safety is compromised.
> Chuck G.
>
>>
I angled mine somewhat close to the cable angle on the elevator and rudder.
I have 78 hours on the plane and it works fine. I have built three complete
tail sections now and angled all of them. I did not really like setting them
"straight" and pulling them at an angle in service, particularly the rudder.
The two aircraft in the museums at Oshkosh are both made straight. When I
bult mine, I did not know that. The #8 bolts used to fasten the horns don't
pass through the center of the spar on mine. One is a little forward and the
other is slightly aft of the spar. Looks like either will do the job.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elavator Travel |
In a message dated 10/2/00 8:53:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
intercon(at)netactive.co.za writes:
<< Hi all,
Some of you may remember I posted a question regarding my one Piet
that dropped its tail during 3 point landings _ any way it finally had to
hapen
About 3 weeks ago I dropped the tail wheel in and the plane flipped over
onto
its back-The damage is extenive but repairs have started and the Piet should
fly again in about 6 - 7 months time-I was only a Piet Pilot before but am
now a
builder or should I say rebuilder-Can any one tell me what the amount of
elavator travel
should be ? as this time I want to fit elavator stops.
I still have the Greager to fly while Im rebuilding the Piet so life isnt
all bad
Regards
Doug Reeve
Johannesburg South Africa.
I don't understand the question?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol data plates |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
04:33:03 PM
If you don't have any luck with Brian, I've just started doing a
little casting and would enjoy creating a few decorative items for the
Piet. I was thinking that some cool aluminum valve covers for the
Corvair engine would be a good idea, but it appears that the steel
ones work out lighter. I guess a plate like this wouldn't add too
much weight. Let me know what you would like.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
ps. relating to news letter copies - I'm still waiting to hear back
from one source that may have the bulk of what we want. Stay tuned .
. .
Don Mosher
Sent by: To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat cc:
ronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List:
Pietenpol data plates
09/30/2000 07:51 PM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list; Please respond
to Don Mosher
John Duprey asked about the availability of Pietenpol data plates:
A source is Brian C. Amato
P.O.Box 6321
Traverse City MI 49685-6321
Brian puts out a beautiful printed "B.H.Pietenpol Aircraft Factory,
Cherry
Grove, Minn." plate with space for your serial number, manufacturing
date,
model and engine, etc. A few years ago they were less than $10 per
copy
and a bargain at that price. Order several, and put one on your desk.
Reed Hamilton, publisher of the "Pietenpol and Pietenpol-like
Directory" -
191 School Street, Manchester, MA 01944 ($18 PP) reminded me of
Brain's
address.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Should the elevator wires always rub the top of tail? |
Walter,
The top elevator cables do hit the horizontal stabilizer when the
elevator is full down unless the control bellcrank is moved upward. We
put ours in according to the plans. We plan on putting a very thin piece
of phenolic on the rub spot to protect the fabric. Whatever you use,
this place should be protected somehow.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elavator Travel |
Doug,
The Pietenpol plans do not call for any specific control surface travel
and there are no stops called for in the plans. I wish I could think of
something to solve your problem, but it still sounds like a weight and
balance problem. If you want to install stops, it would have to be a
matter of trial and error until you got what you wanted.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Rib Stitching on Tailfeathers |
Bert,
The tail feathers should be rib stitched. Gluing is not necessary.
Also, planes like the various Pipers did not rib stitch with spacing as
closely as is done on the wings, but would stitch using square knots a
couple places along a rib. Sometimes. they formed a diamond pattern.
Whenever I recovered one of these planes, I usually just rib stitched at
2 1/2" spacing as called for in A.C. 43.13-1a (now 1b) as the tail is in
the prop wash. I would also rib stitch the first three wing ribs
outboard from the butt for the same reason. Probably overkill, but it's
the way I did it. Anyway, the tail should be rib stitch to prevent the
fabric from fluttering and wearing against the structure. There is any
number of ways of doing it.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | flight intstuction in a homebuilt |
Group,
There was a discussion awhile back about whether homebuilts could be
used for flight instrcution or flight testing. Although I'm not a
designee, I've been put on the mailing list for an FAA designee
newslatter and I received one in July which answers the question. Of
course, some local FSDOs might have different opinions and it deals with
testing rather than instruction, but I feel it would also apply to
instructors. An instructor would have to be willing to do it and he
would have to have access to the airplane in order to become qualified in
the type. I hope this is of interest to you. As I nor my partners have
flown for many years, we are going to take some flight instruction and I
have already arranged to get checked out in a Mooney M10 (an old Mooney
Ercoupe) and then have an instructor check us out in the Piet. Nearly
all my flight time is in taildraggers.
This is what this newsletter said in entirety:
It is published by AFS-600 Regulatory Support Division and is entitled
Designee Update, Vol. 12, No. 3; July 2000
EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT
Questions have come up concerning the use of experimental aircraft during
practical tests. FAR Section 61.45(a)(1) allows, at the descretion of
the examiner who administers the test, the applicant to provide an
aircraft that has a current airworthiness certificate other than
standard, limited, or primary, but otherwise meets the requirements of
paragraph (a)(1) of this section. Section 61.45(a)(1) states that an
applicant for a certificate or rating issued under this part must furnish
an aircraft of U.S. registry for each required test that is of the
category, class, and type, if applicable, which the applicant is applying
for a certificate or rating.
The Operating Limitations issued for experimental category aircraft in
accordance with FAA Order 81.302D, Change 1, specifically addresses that
the pilot in command must meet the requirements of FAR Sections 61.31(e),
(f), (h), (i), and (j), as appropriate
So, for the examiner to conduct the test in an experimental aircraft,
he/she must be willing to do so, and secondly, must be rated in the
aircraft. And Finally, the examiner must comply with Part 61 and the
Operating Limitations issued for that specific aircraft. The aircraft
must be capable of performing all the tasks required for the test. If
the aircraft is not capable then the applicant will be required to
provide an additional aircraft that can meet the PTS requirements.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator horns |
"Michael Brusilow"
>
>> Sorry guys, I don't agree. I makes more sense to have a direct pull on
the
>> horn than an angular pull.
>>
>> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
>But Mike, how did you make the bolt holes centered on the spar with the
horn angled?
>Also, like I said earlier, the angled horn pulls the spar in a strange way
(although I
>admit the angled cable may do the same thing). What about twisting the top
of the horn
>to point at an angle? (I have flat plate elevator horns)
I too have flat plate horns.The horn is notched to fit over the spar with
bent out tabs on either side. Position the horn & drill the holes. There is
of course an extension welded to the horn which is bolted to the elevator
beam.( I hope I remember this right, its been over 14 years since I made the
elevator. Although, I did check with Ed Snyder ).
Mike B Piet N6987MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elavator Travel |
"Michael Brusilow"
>
>In a message dated 10/2/00 8:53:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>intercon(at)netactive.co.za writes:
>
> About 3 weeks ago I dropped the tail wheel in and the plane flipped over
> onto
> its back-The damage is extenive.
I don't understand, you mean it flipped fwd onto its back?
Can any one tell me what the amount of
> elavator travel
> should be ?
> Regards
> Doug Reeve
> Johannesburg South Africa.
I use 30 deg up & down.
Mike B Piet N 687MB ( Mr sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Redeye" <intercon(at)netactive.co.za> |
We have 4 Piets at our airfield including my Greager I have checked the
travel on
all of them and all vary in the amount of El. travel.The Piet I crashed in
has the most travel.
I have never seen the plans for a Piet and dont know who has a copy nearby.
My Piet had the "UP" cables routing out above the tailplane via a bell crank
system
My Greagers cables route over the leading edge of the talplane on small
pulleys.
Im not sure what system is correct .I think the tail dropping has something
to
do with the wingspan being increased by over 2 metres but I cant give a
proper anwser
The weight and balance has been checked twice by two peaple.
When the plane flies again I will only wheel land it.
Thanx for your replies-I had no injuries at all but was wearing a crash
helmet that did damage
the instrament panel-I will continue to wear the helmet.
Regards Doug Reeve
PS My wife has recently completed her Private Pilots Licence (PPL) all on
the Piet and the
Greager-She has never flown any other aircraft type
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
Do you guys glue (t-88) your tail hinges in places as well as bolt them?
=====
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
If you're using the cast aluminum by Vi Kapler, would also suggest recessing
them the thickness of the base to reduce the gap space as well as cement in
place. I also used nut plates on these cemented and screwed in place. should
the hinges ever need replacing, won't have to hurt the covering.
JoeC
Richard DeCosta wrote:
>
> Do you guys glue (t-88) your tail hinges in places as well as bolt them?
>
> =====
> Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> My building progress:
> http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
>
> Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
> http://photos.yahoo.com/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elavator Travel |
I do not agree that it is a weight and balance problem. It is simply stalling
at
an angle of attack that is higher than the three-point attitude, and may even be
flying so slow that the tail is losing effectiveness. Lots of airplanes touch
down
tailwheel first in a full stall landing. This does not reflect on the aircraft's
weight and balance in any way. Having said all of this, I do not have a solution
without seeing the airplane. One thing that will help, but not solve the "problem"
is to change the way you are landing it. Instead of a full-stall landing, make
it
a tail-low wheel landing, which is usually the way most landings turn out in
airplanes with this characteristic.
nle97(at)juno.com wrote:
I wish I could think of something to solve your problem, but it still sounds like
a
weight and balance problem.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Elavator Travel |
Doug,
I don't have any data on the elevator travel on the Pietenpol but looked up
an old shop manual for the -100 series Cessnas amd found that the travel
ranged from a low of 25 up and 15 down for the C150 to a high of 28 up and 26
down for the C175.
What kind of tail wheel do you have on the Piet? I've flown airplanes where
the tailwheel was too large and tended to touch down first which could cause
a forward pitching moment. If a pilot were to be on the brakes when the
mains hit you could very easily wind up on your back.
Hope this helps.
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
NO
writes:
>
>
> Do you guys glue (t-88) your tail hinges in places as well as bolt
> them?
>
> =====
> Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> My building progress:
> http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
>
> Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
> http://photos.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
AirCamperpietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
In a message dated 10/3/00 5:42:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
aircamper(at)yahoo.com writes:
<<
Do you guys glue (t-88) your tail hinges in places as well as bolt them?
>>
I bolted all mine using #8 hardware. I never thought about using glue also.
I wouldn't think gluing is needed for any reason. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com> |
I don't know that I would want anything between the hinge and spar that might
crack and come out making the hinge loose. Also, I think a certain amount of
flexibility is a good thing, for alignment, etc., and the glue might not allow
any.
Doug413(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/3/00 5:42:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> aircamper(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> <<
> Do you guys glue (t-88) your tail hinges in places as well as bolt them?
> >>
> I bolted all mine using #8 hardware. I never thought about using glue also.
> I wouldn't think gluing is needed for any reason. Doug Bryant
>
________________________________________________________________________________
"Rodger & Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Doug,
Don't know why I didn't think of it earlier, but, why not make an angle of
attack indicator and mount it on the Grega as well as the various other
Piets
at the field and see at what angle they settle in on landing as well as what
angle they stall at at altitude. Then when you get the Piet reworked and
back in
the air, check it out against the other figures obtained. Of course, run the
stall angle check at altitude first.
Probably they will all stall at the same angle of attack and all settle in
to land
at the same angle as well. Oh well, wheels first on landing I guess.
Best of luck,
Rodger Childs
Going to work on the Piet tomorrow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elavator Travel |
"Domenico Bellissimo"
An A/C in Canada will not pass inspection if it does not have stops on the
elevators. Just thought I would pass that along. And the travel after the
stops are installed must be recorded and reported to the inspector either in
degrees of travel or inches of travel.
Domenico
-----Original Message-----
From: nle97(at)juno.com <nle97(at)juno.com>
intercon(at)netactive.co.za
Date: Monday, October 02, 2000 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elavator Travel
>
>Doug,
> The Pietenpol plans do not call for any specific control surface
travel
>and there are no stops called for in the plans. I wish I could think of
>something to solve your problem, but it still sounds like a weight and
>balance problem. If you want to install stops, it would have to be a
>matter of trial and error until you got what you wanted.
>
>John Langston
>Pipe Creek, TX
>nle97(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elavator Travel |
"Michael Brusilow"
----->>Doug,
>> The Pietenpol plans do not call for any specific control surface
>travel
>>and there are no stops called for in the plans. I wish I could think of
>>something to solve your problem, but it still sounds like a weight and
>>balance problem. If you want to install stops, it would have to be a
>>matter of trial and error until you got what you wanted.
>>
>>John Langston
>>Pipe Creek, TX
>>nle97(at)juno.com
>>
This may help. I posted it a while ago:
Elevator stop was fabricated from 1/8 X 1.5 or 2 inch Al stock. A slot was
cut in the middle of the piece. A swivel bolt was placed thru the torque
tube just in front of the seat. A 1/4 bolt thru the stick rides in the slot.
A friction wing nut is placed on the bolt. As the stick is moved fore & aft,
the bolt rides in the slot. The length of the slot is determined by the
degree of up & down elevator travel.
I use 30 deg up & down.
Mike B Piet N 687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Michael D Cuy
Roger, group,
While taking notes at Brodhead and our local airport I measured
the landing stance angle of various planes as they sit on the ground.
Piets with tailskids and tall wheels sit at about 16 degrees while Piets
with low pressure tires and tailwheels sit at about 12-13 degrees.
I built my setup to have what the old Champ has.....13 degrees.
You can experience some porpising on landing with this more shallow
arrangement if the tailwheel hits first and is more pronounced with a light
pilot in the rear seat but it is still very controllable. Piets do sit
fairly flat
and it takes some adjustment in the flare to finally "get it". Getting it
is merely getting used to the view, the angle, the feel of your Piet/GN-1 in
the three-point flare situation. A very common (it happened to me alot)
illusion to a new Piet pilot is that they flare quite high. You are not used
to having your butt so close to the runway in the flare in any other airplane
you might have flown before. Just like with a tall plane like a Stearman
you tend to flare way late waiting for your visual clues to "match" what you
have become accustomed to.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | "Pietenpol" on eBay |
For anyone interested, there's something for auction on eBay that looks
like it may have at one point in time been something closely resembling
a Pietenpol Air Camper. Sorry about the sarcasm, just my mood. See url
below.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=458901355
:)
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Redeye" <intercon(at)netactive.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: Elavator Travel |
Hi,
I dont know what make of tail wheel I have but it looks just like the
Scott unit on my Starduster only smaller.I nortmally land my Piet wih a
wheel a landing as I was aware of the problem but on the day I crashed I
needed to make a short landing as I was useing the runway
opersite the active runway(Into wind & grass)and didnt want to interfere
with the other traffic on our main runway-It was a VERY short landing -only
problem was I was upside down.The ange of attack meter
is the best idea Ive heard to date-This I want to try over the weekend on
the Greiger and my friends Piet.
Thanx for all the comments and ideas
Regards Dog Reeve
Johannesburg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED GRENTZER" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | tailwheel spring mount sandwich |
hey guys (and gals)
Heres a easy one. I'm building up the area between the rear ends
of my longerons to form a pad to mount a conventional tail wheel
spring. I know,God never ment for it to be that way!! I have t-88ed
1" of marine plywood between the longerons.
Question one:
Is an 1/8" gusset on the top and bottom sufficient or should the
gussets be thicker like maybe 1/4"? I definitly don't want to take a
chance of it breaking in service but I dont want to put any more
weight back that far than necessary. So please let me know what is
normally done.
Question two:
I've noticed that most tail wheel springs have two or three bolts
through them but the springs I see in the cataloges only have a
single bolt hole at the far end. Is everyone drilling extra holes
or am I looking in the wrong places for springs?
Ed G
Palm Harbor, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | eBay web site item#459950558: Pietenpol Steel Tube Fuselage |
Gang,
I saw this on eBay and thought I'd mention it to everyone. I'll stick with
wood!
Gary M.
>From: garymead(at)mail.ev1.net
>To: gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com
>Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#459950558: Pietenpol Steel
>Tube Fuselage
>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 20:59:35 PDT
>
>
>Title of item: Pietenpol Steel Tube Fuselage
>Seller: markl(at)intercom.net
>Price: Starts at $800.00
>To bid on the item, go
>to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=459950558
>
>
>Item Description:
> This is a 4130 steel tube Pietenpol fuselage frame conpletely welded
>except for 3 joints. The fittings have not been welded yet. It comes with
>a complete (31) set of wing ribs that were professionally made. Located on
>the Eastern Shore of Maryland. Check current prices for 4130 tubing and
>welding work and see that this is a good deal. Why is this for sale?? I
>have become an Aeronca person - too many projects.
>
> Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at
>http://www.ebay.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tailwheel spring mount sandwich |
A gusset on top and bottom will NOT be strong enough regardless of the
thickness. You will need to fill in the gap between the gussets with solid
wood. A light spring with a single hole at each end should suffice, but I do
not mean an single leaf, it may take several leafs (leaves?). I do not know
what extra holes you are talking about, at the tailwheel end?
ED GRENTZER wrote:
>
> hey guys (and gals)
> Heres a easy one. I'm building up the area between the rear ends
> of my longerons to form a pad to mount a conventional tail wheel
> spring. I know,God never ment for it to be that way!! I have t-88ed
> 1" of marine plywood between the longerons.
> Question one:
> Is an 1/8" gusset on the top and bottom sufficient or should the
> gussets be thicker like maybe 1/4"? I definitly don't want to take a
> chance of it breaking in service but I dont want to put any more
> weight back that far than necessary. So please let me know what is
> normally done.
> Question two:
> I've noticed that most tail wheel springs have two or three bolts
> through them but the springs I see in the cataloges only have a
> single bolt hole at the far end. Is everyone drilling extra holes
> or am I looking in the wrong places for springs?
>
> Ed G
> Palm Harbor, Fl.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: tailwheel spring mount sandwich |
Michael D Cuy
>
>A gusset on top and bottom will NOT be strong enough regardless of the
>thickness. You will need to fill in the gap between the gussets with solid
>wood.
Gene- I you would re-read Ed's posting he HAS already installed a 1" filler
block between the two lower longerons........
Ed G. Wrote: I have t-88ed
1" of marine plywood between the longerons.
As for the plywood on top and bottom the 1/8" thickness works fine.
I have 200 hours and many landings on my 1" poplar-filled triangular
reinforcement block sandwiched between two layers of 1/8" aircraft
plywood. Using a 2-leaf spring setup w/ 3 holes and bolts securing it
to the bottom of the fuselage. Ed- you are on the right track.
Mike Cuy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | tailwheel spring mount sandwich |
Ed, I used the two hole at the fuse mount. I also used two springs.
I purchase the springs from a local company and cut,bent,shaped and drilled
them as per the way Tony Bingelis shows in his book.
He advises keeping them long. You can check out how mine came out at this
link.
http://www.megsinet.net/~skycarl/pietpage6.html
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ED
GRENTZER
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel spring mount sandwich
hey guys (and gals)
Heres a easy one. I'm building up the area between the rear ends
of my longerons to form a pad to mount a conventional tail wheel
spring. I know,God never ment for it to be that way!! I have t-88ed
1" of marine plywood between the longerons.
Question one:
Is an 1/8" gusset on the top and bottom sufficient or should the
gussets be thicker like maybe 1/4"? I definitly don't want to take a
chance of it breaking in service but I dont want to put any more
weight back that far than necessary. So please let me know what is
normally done.
Question two:
I've noticed that most tail wheel springs have two or three bolts
through them but the springs I see in the cataloges only have a
single bolt hole at the far end. Is everyone drilling extra holes
or am I looking in the wrong places for springs?
Ed G
Palm Harbor, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Re: tail wheel spring mount sandwich |
leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
I'm about to start working the same area. Recently someone posted that
you need to add a steel crush plate to the bottom of your ply filler
block. They said if you don't, spring movement will wollow out the wood.
Makes sense to me. Another suggested steel on top with bolt heads
welded to it eliminating need to get a hand inside if service is
necessary. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Wilcox" <CraigWilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
"Jeffrey Wilcox"
Hi all! Just beginning to get started on a Pietenpol, plan to use the
three-piece wing, long fuselage, and a Corvair engine, if I can find a
decent one.
Any hints, tips, ideas, etc. will be greatfully received.
Craig Wilcox
Lake Worth, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tailwheel spring mount sandwich |
Nice pictures Carl, I have a question for the group about tail wheels and
caster angle. Does the pivot axis for the tail wheel need to be at a
particular angle, or does the length of the fork provide the castering
effect? I assume the caster will change as the spring either the leaf, or
"A" arm and coil, compresses. Does this set up a potential for tailwheel
shimmy?
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Loar <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel spring mount sandwich
>
> Ed, I used the two hole at the fuse mount. I also used two springs.
> I purchase the springs from a local company and cut,bent,shaped and
drilled
> them as per the way Tony Bingelis shows in his book.
> He advises keeping them long. You can check out how mine came out at this
> link.
> http://www.megsinet.net/~skycarl/pietpage6.html
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ED
> GRENTZER
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 8:10 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel spring mount sandwich
>
>
>
>
> hey guys (and gals)
> Heres a easy one. I'm building up the area between the rear ends
> of my longerons to form a pad to mount a conventional tail wheel
> spring. I know,God never ment for it to be that way!! I have t-88ed
> 1" of marine plywood between the longerons.
> Question one:
> Is an 1/8" gusset on the top and bottom sufficient or should the
> gussets be thicker like maybe 1/4"? I definitly don't want to take a
> chance of it breaking in service but I dont want to put any more
> weight back that far than necessary. So please let me know what is
> normally done.
> Question two:
> I've noticed that most tail wheel springs have two or three bolts
> through them but the springs I see in the cataloges only have a
> single bolt hole at the far end. Is everyone drilling extra holes
> or am I looking in the wrong places for springs?
>
> Ed G
> Palm Harbor, Fl.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
Do you have william wynns plans on the corvair? He's
from florida and his website is www.flycorvair.com
del
--- Jeffrey Wilcox wrote:
> Wilcox"
>
> Hi all! Just beginning to get started on a
> Pietenpol, plan to use the
> three-piece wing, long fuselage, and a Corvair
> engine, if I can find a
> decent one.
>
> Any hints, tips, ideas, etc. will be greatfully
> received.
>
> Craig Wilcox
> Lake Worth, FL
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
"Jeffrey Wilcox"
Well Jeff,,, You found the right place. People in here are great and
very very helpfull. If your going to use a corvair engine,, I would suggest
ordering a manual from Wm Wynne. It has really helped me from finding one
and
knowing what I was looking at. He has all the steps you'll need from start
to pulling
the prop thru.
His site is www.flycorvair.com
Welcome to the wacky world of piet builders
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey
Wilcox
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Beginnings
Hi all! Just beginning to get started on a Pietenpol, plan to use the
three-piece wing, long fuselage, and a Corvair engine, if I can find a
decent one.
Any hints, tips, ideas, etc. will be greatfully received.
Craig Wilcox
Lake Worth, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Holland" <iholland(at)telusplanet.net> |
"Ian Holland"
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: costs
>
> Another thing to factor in that is generally
underestimated.....SHIPPING
> COSTS. I tend to find that this is the great unknown. For
example, I just
Ken, I sympathise with your gripe, and found a way to beat it in
Ontario, namely ship the material to a border crossing, or
address close to the border and go and get it yourself. I hope to
be able to find away to do this in Alberta, but with the distance
invoved, would have to have a big order to make it pay.
The questions asked at the border were very simple:
Business or personal?
How much was it worth?
How would you like to pay?
This cut out the broker, UPS customs fee etc.
On a positive side, they give you the customs form showing you
order and invoice for Transport Canada in the future. Anyone
doing this in Alberta? Or other Provinces? Would like to know if
this is possible as I still have some parts to order. The big
stuff shipping costs were gotten around by calling in some
favours at work.
FWIW,
-=Ian=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
Hi Ian
The method you discribe works here in Manitoba. I have a fellow RAA
member who is a Mountie stationed near the border. He keeps a US postal box
in the US that he alows other builders to ship to. It works well.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Holland <iholland(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: costs
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 6:44 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: costs
>
>
>
> >
> > Another thing to factor in that is generally
> underestimated.....SHIPPING
> > COSTS. I tend to find that this is the great unknown. For
> example, I just
>
> Ken, I sympathise with your gripe, and found a way to beat it in
> Ontario, namely ship the material to a border crossing, or
> address close to the border and go and get it yourself. I hope to
> be able to find away to do this in Alberta, but with the distance
> invoved, would have to have a big order to make it pay.
>
> The questions asked at the border were very simple:
>
> Business or personal?
> How much was it worth?
> How would you like to pay?
>
> This cut out the broker, UPS customs fee etc.
> On a positive side, they give you the customs form showing you
> order and invoice for Transport Canada in the future. Anyone
> doing this in Alberta? Or other Provinces? Would like to know if
> this is possible as I still have some parts to order. The big
> stuff shipping costs were gotten around by calling in some
> favours at work.
>
> FWIW,
> -=Ian=-
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Wilcox" <CraigWilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
"Jeffrey Wilcox"
Thanks to each of you who sent me advice, offers of help, etc. In any
endeavor, it's nice to have friends who know the ropes.
Now - when do I have to get involved with the FAA. I know enough to not
cover anything without inspection, and to keep receipts, etc. But I've been
away from homebuilts since 1980. What's the deal with using "NX" instead
of "Experimental"?
If you're going to be in south Florida, give a shout.
Craig Wilcox
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Jeffery,
If you're building a design that's 30 years or more old, then you can
dispense with the requirement for having to display the big
"experimental" written on your airplane. You can replace it with an N number
with an X immediately following the N.
If you have a complete copy of the FAR's then it is in Part 45 -
Identification and Registration Marking. I found it in Pt 45.22 and Pt
45.33. I'm using a copy of the Mechanics FARs from 1996, but I'm prety sure
that's still right.
A lot of the guys use the NX, it seems to indicate to me that the design
is pretty well proven out, adn it looks a lot nicer too!
Hope this helped, it sure helped me!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
Kirk Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com>
>
>
>Thanks to each of you who sent me advice, offers of help, etc. In any
>endeavor, it's nice to have friends who know the ropes.
>
>Now - when do I have to get involved with the FAA. I know enough to not
>cover anything without inspection, and to keep receipts, etc.
Actually, my understanding currently is that you will want a
technical advisor from the EAA or an A&P check out your workmanship
and safety habits along the way, but the FAA inspector (at least in
the Twin Cities) want to only see the end product and the
"endorsments" or logs of the previous inspections.
The FAA no long requires an inspection before the plane is covered,
but it is obviously a good idea to have someone experienced
inspecting your work as you go. I'm sure there is a local chapter of
the EAA somewhere around you that could help out.
Kirk Huizenga
Rebuilding a Corvair powered Aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terminaltown(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List: New Web Site of Interest to Builders |
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com,
homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com
Thanks Jack for the nice Ad.
Terminal town is up and running. You can find it at http://terminaltown.com
or click here Terminal Town's
I am still tweaking the pages and the pricing...So look us over and let me
know what you folks think.
I will be running a Special for List Members and will announce it when it's
up.
All the How To Pages are on Terminal Town's site now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED GRENTZER" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | thanks/ tail wheel spring mount info |
Thanks to all who replied with the tail wheel spring mount info.
Special thanks to Mike Cuy for taking the time to fax his origional
costruction diagrams and notes to me.
Now I can put it together without any guess work, and without over
building and adding unnecessary weight in the tail end. This is
a great list!!
Ed G.
Palm Harbor Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Aircraft Wheels on Ebay |
Here's a set of 6x600 wheels on ebay, not sure if they are 1 1/2 or 1 1/4
axles
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=459316205
Carl
Sign up with Paypal,it's free and they will
give you $5.00 just for joining.
https://secure.paypal.x.com/refer/pal=skycarl%40megsinet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Aircraft Wheels on Ebay |
I wrote the guy selling these and he said they are for 1 1/2 inch axles
carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carl Loar
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Wheels on Ebay
Here's a set of 6x600 wheels on ebay, not sure if they are 1 1/2 or 1 1/4
axles
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=459316205
Carl
Sign up with Paypal,it's free and they will
give you $5.00 just for joining.
https://secure.paypal.x.com/refer/pal=skycarl%40megsinet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"walter evans"
Here's the site for FAA forms, if anyone needs them.
http://www.nw.faa.gov/fltstds/pdxfsdo/forms.htm
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lyons Jr" <fredl(at)brazosnet.com> |
Hi Folks, does anyone know of any piets for sale other than the ones in
Trade A Plane?
Would appreciate any info, have complete fuse but looking for something
flying. What is biggest eng ever put in a piet, I have a Lyc 290D2 just
taking up space. Would it work?
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terminaltown(at)aol.com |
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com,
zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Hello Fellow Listers:
As promised a Fuse Block Kit with a really good price and a pretty darn big
selection of sizes. You can find at
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page11.html or click here Terminal Town's
/Electrical Connector Fuse Block Kits or click the link next to my
signature and follow the link from our home page.
Got questions...The lights are always on and the doors are always open on our
site.
John @ Terminal Town
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Piets,
Faced with a little problem this P M . Whenattaching the 1/ 16 plywood over
the front of wing, I butt spliced, joined, the plywood over one of the ribs.
My question is: Should you put in a filler strip on the top front spar and
glue and nail the aft edge of the plywood or just let it fly under the fabric?
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | spoke wheels lacing |
I just got the word from the motorcycle guy.
He says that my hubs, spoke holes drilled stright thru,, (but offset between
flanges) can only be laced as double cross pattern.
Question, Is a double cross pattern strong enough for a/c use using 9, or 8
gauge spokes ?
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge |
In a message dated 10/11/00 8:35:48 PM Central Daylight Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
<< Should you put in a filler strip on the top front spar and
glue and nail the aft edge of the plywood or just let it fly under the
fabric? >>
No filler is needed between the ribs, under the aft edge of the 1/16"
plywood. When the fabric is shrunk down, it pulls the aft edge of the
plywood down tight, very nicely.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spoke wheels lacing |
| From: | Tony Weeks <tony_weeks(at)juno.com> |
What bike are these hubs off of? The wheel on a large road bike can take
a lot of stress. Bucannon's (I'm not sure if I speed that right) frame
and wheel shop can sell you a set of heavy duty spokes like used on
sidecar rigs. Sorry, I don't remember the gauge but I've laced up a few
on Harleys and there tough.
I was planning on using front hubs off a mid 70's Japanese road bike
(probably 750 Honda or 900 Kawasaki) with the disk brakes. I think a
wheel that can hold any big road bike should do fine. The first Air
Camper used wheels off a Henderson Ace and those old bike were real
flimsy but today's standards.
Tony
On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 03:46:23 GMT "oil can"
writes:
>
>
>I just got the word from the motorcycle guy.
>
>He says that my hubs, spoke holes drilled stright thru,, (but offset
>between
>flanges) can only be laced as double cross pattern.
>
>Question, Is a double cross pattern strong enough for a/c use using 9,
>or 8
>gauge spokes ?
>
>Bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge |
Michael D Cuy
>
>
>Piets,
>Faced with a little problem this P M . Whenattaching the 1/ 16 plywood over
>the front of wing, I butt spliced, joined, the plywood over one of the ribs.
>My question is: Should you put in a filler strip on the top front spar and
>glue and nail the aft edge of the plywood or just let it fly under the fabric?
>Corky in La
>Corky- just let that plywood go free between the ribs. What will happen
when you tighten the fabric is that the 116" plywood between the ribs will
suck down somewhat to where it wants to leaving a pleasing scalloped look
and semi-flexible in that area. Works great, less work too.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
"'Michael D Cuy'"
This is the way I did it on my plane too. I would only add that if I were
to do it again, I would add a bridge strip between the root rib and the one
next to it. My fabric over the past two years has pulled the rib toward the
tip slightly causing a slight pucker. Adding a spar cap would prevent this.
Stevee
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael D
Cuy
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading Edge
>
>
>Piets,
>Faced with a little problem this P M . Whenattaching the 1/ 16 plywood over
>the front of wing, I butt spliced, joined, the plywood over one of the
ribs.
>My question is: Should you put in a filler strip on the top front spar and
>glue and nail the aft edge of the plywood or just let it fly under the
fabric?
>Corky in La
>Corky- just let that plywood go free between the ribs. What will happen
when you tighten the fabric is that the 116" plywood between the ribs will
suck down somewhat to where it wants to leaving a pleasing scalloped look
and semi-flexible in that area. Works great, less work too.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terminaltown(at)aol.com |
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, zenith-list(at)matronics.com,
rv-list(at)matronics.com.smithmini-list@matronics.com
Hello Listers:
Two new pages.
Click the link for our Home Page
Terminal Town or drag and drop the URLs shown.
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page104.html Terminal Town's
Electrical Connector High Amp Circuit Breakers
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page17.html
Terminal Town's
Electrical Connector High Amp Fuses
John @ Terminal Town
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
"'Terminaltown(at)aol.com'"
I know you must be excited about your products. Thanks for bringing them to
our attention so many times.
The only electricity in my piet is produced by the mags.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Terminaltown(at)aol.com
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com; zenith-list(at)matronics.com;
rv-list%matronics.com.smithmini-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: (no subject)
Hello Listers:
Two new pages.
Click the link for our Home Page
Terminal Town or drag and drop the URLs shown.
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page104.html Terminal Town's
Electrical Connector High Amp Circuit Breakers
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page17.html
Terminal Town's
Electrical Connector High Amp Fuses
John @ Terminal Town
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Amen to that Steve.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Eldredge
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: (no subject)
I know you must be excited about your products. Thanks for bringing them to
our attention so many times.
The only electricity in my piet is produced by the mags.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Terminaltown(at)aol.com
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com; zenith-list(at)matronics.com;
rv-list%matronics.com.smithmini-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: (no subject)
Hello Listers:
Two new pages.
Click the link for our Home Page
Terminal Town or drag and drop the URLs shown.
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page104.html Terminal Town's
Electrical Connector High Amp Circuit Breakers
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page17.html
Terminal Town's
Electrical Connector High Amp Fuses
John @ Terminal Town
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Ok,,, I got that prop making book by Eric Clutton and it's pretty good.
I might even try building one once the piet is out of the house and at the
airport.
For now I think I'll just purchase one. I used the formulas he gives for the
diameter
and pitch. Best I could come up with is 64x36,, That's for the 100hp
corvair.
Today I talked with Dave Miller from Culver Props in Penn. He mentioned that
with the
horsepower and rpms, I could swing a 72in prop with no problem. I'd like to
get some
feedback on this from all of you to see what you think.
Carl
Sign up with Paypal,it's free and they will
give you $5.00 just for joining.
https://secure.paypal.x.com/refer/pal=skycarl%40megsinet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Propeller Dept. |
Kirk Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com>
Carl,
The people on the corvaircraft list may have some better ideas, but
from what I've checked out the corvair pumps out its best horsepower
at about 3200- 3400 rpm. I think that is around where most
corvaircraft engines are run for cruise. The max rpm for a 72 in prop
is about 3450.
I seems like you could run a 72, but I'm pretty new to this and it
seems like there are as many ideas about ideal props as there are
builders.
I would see what other Corvair powered Piet owners are using. Try
http://www.flycorvair.com to start and
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/
BTW, my corviar (84hp - soon to be 95-100hp) piet has a 64/30 wood
prop. I can't tell you how it performs since I haven't flown it yet
and will likely replace the prop anyway.
Kirk
>
> Ok,,, I got that prop making book by Eric Clutton and it's
>pretty good.
>I might even try building one once the piet is out of the house and at the
>airport.
>For now I think I'll just purchase one. I used the formulas he gives for the
>diameter
>and pitch. Best I could come up with is 64x36,, That's for the 100hp
>corvair.
>Today I talked with Dave Miller from Culver Props in Penn. He mentioned that
>with the
>horsepower and rpms, I could swing a 72in prop with no problem. I'd like to
>get some
>feedback on this from all of you to see what you think.
>Carl
>
>Sign up with Paypal,it's free and they will
>give you $5.00 just for joining.
>https://secure.paypal.x.com/refer/pal=skycarl%40megsinet.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
Well said Steve
Steve Eldredge wrote:
>
>
> I know you must be excited about your products. Thanks for bringing them to
> our attention so many times.
>
> The only electricity in my piet is produced by the mags.
>
> Steve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Terminaltown(at)aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 11:09 AM
> To: homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com; kolb-list(at)matronics.com;
> pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com; zenith-list(at)matronics.com;
> rv-list%matronics.com.smithmini-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: (no subject)
>
>
> Hello Listers:
> Two new pages.
> Click the link for our Home Page
> Terminal Town or drag and drop the URLs shown.
>
> http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page104.html HREF="http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page104.html">Terminal Town's
> Electrical Connector High Amp Circuit Breakers
>
> http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page17.html
> Terminal Town's
> Electrical Connector High Amp Fuses
>
> John @ Terminal Town
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terminaltown(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
Thanks Steve:
Sorry Guys...I will stop sending you mail.
John @ Terminal Town
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | capstrip for ribs |
Ok,,, I'm gonna get greedy and ask one more question to everyone. the chord
of the
ribs are 5ft. how long are the capstrips before they get bent into shape?
In other words, if I order 6 ft pieces,,, how much extra will I have for the
inter
braces. Thanks
Carl
Sign up with Paypal,it's free and they will
give you $5.00 just for joining.
https://secure.paypal.x.com/refer/pal=skycarl%40megsinet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: capstrip for ribs |
Carl,
I figure 3 six footers per rib.
>From: "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
>In other words, if I order 6 ft pieces,,, how much extra will I have for
>the
>inter
>braces. Thanks
>Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: capstrip for ribs |
Kirk Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com>
This is not exact, but my wings measure 5'3" following the top
camber. That's from leading to trailing edge - so you should have at
least 8-9 inches left over for other things.
Hope this helps
Kirk
>
>Ok,,, I'm gonna get greedy and ask one more question to everyone. the chord
>of the
>ribs are 5ft. how long are the capstrips before they get bent into shape?
>In other words, if I order 6 ft pieces,,, how much extra will I have for the
>inter
>braces. Thanks
>Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
"Kirk Huizenga" <kirkh@unique-software.com>
| Subject: | capstrip for ribs |
thanks guys,,, that's what I needed to know
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kirk
Huizenga
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: capstrip for ribs
<kirkh@unique-software.com>
This is not exact, but my wings measure 5'3" following the top
camber. That's from leading to trailing edge - so you should have at
least 8-9 inches left over for other things.
Hope this helps
Kirk
>
>Ok,,, I'm gonna get greedy and ask one more question to everyone. the chord
>of the
>ribs are 5ft. how long are the capstrips before they get bent into shape?
>In other words, if I order 6 ft pieces,,, how much extra will I have for
the
>inter
>braces. Thanks
>Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
This is the way I did it on my plane too. I would only add that if I were
to do it again, I would add a bridge strip between the root rib and the one
next to it. My fabric over the past two years has pulled the rib toward the
tip slightly causing a slight pucker. Adding a spar cap would prevent this.
Stevee
***************
Steve, did you install the 2" 1/16 plywood bracing strips along the top and
bottom of the root rib, and the diagonal bracing to the top and bottom cap
strips in the bay between the spars? Mine seems pretty sturdy with that, but
I haven't covered yet...
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"Michael Brusilow"
>
>
>This is the way I did it on my plane too. I would only add that if I were
>to do it again, I would add a bridge strip between the root rib and the one
>next to it. My fabric over the past two years has pulled the rib toward
the
>tip slightly causing a slight pucker. >Stevee
I added diagonals from the root rib to the spar.
Mike B Piet N 687MB ( Mr sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pete Smith" <psmith(at)tein.net> |
Greetings,
I'm a 7AC pilot with a spare A65 and a tube of wood glue. I have been
reading this list for about a month and have subscribed to the Brodhead Piet
Ass. My daughter and I need to get started on a project soon. Where do I get
a set of plans and is there a set tech tips available. Doc Mosher set me on
this course. Thank you.
Pete Smith
Lewistown, MT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Getting Started |
Hi Pete
Try www:Aircamper.org Richard DeCosta's site has links to the Pietenpol
Family and their plans.
Have Fun
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: Pete Smith <psmith(at)tein.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Getting Started
>
> Greetings,
> I'm a 7AC pilot with a spare A65 and a tube of wood glue. I have been
> reading this list for about a month and have subscribed to the Brodhead
Piet
> Ass. My daughter and I need to get started on a project soon. Where do I
get
> a set of plans and is there a set tech tips available. Doc Mosher set me
on
> this course. Thank you.
>
>
> Pete Smith
> Lewistown, MT
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Pete,,, here's the link for the Pietenpol's web site.
http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/
plans and manual can be had there.
The supplementary plans include the motor mount for the
Continental engine,, It also contains the longer fuse plans.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Pete
Smith
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Getting Started
Greetings,
I'm a 7AC pilot with a spare A65 and a tube of wood glue. I have been
reading this list for about a month and have subscribed to the Brodhead Piet
Ass. My daughter and I need to get started on a project soon. Where do I get
a set of plans and is there a set tech tips available. Doc Mosher set me on
this course. Thank you.
Pete Smith
Lewistown, MT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Would Ed, (forgot the last name) who posted some questions about tail
wheel last week , please contact me. I would like to ask some questions.
Thanks Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
Some guys have said that their last rib OB has been pulled to the tip
over the years because they didn't tie the last rib to the next with a
reinforcing strip. I wonder if they interlaced their ribs with the
fabric rib reinforcing tape ( the tape that is placed over the rib before
rib lacing) before covering? It's standard practice to make a
criss-cross pattern, making a loop around each rib cap, and using one
full length of reinforcing tape for each wing. This way, the ribs are
tied together throughout the wing and the fabric will be unable to pull
the ribs out of line, especially if the tape is reasonably snug.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Malley <jgmalley(at)home.com> |
Yup, interlaced all ribs and glued 2 inch wide ply to capstrips of the
root ribs but they still bent in nearly a half inch. Mike Brusilow's
diaganols are probably a good way to go.
Jim Malley
nle97(at)juno.com wrote:
>
>
> Some guys have said that their last rib OB has been pulled to the tip
> over the years because they didn't tie the last rib to the next with a
> reinforcing strip. I wonder if they interlaced their ribs with the
> fabric rib reinforcing tape ( the tape that is placed over the rib before
> rib lacing) before covering? It's standard practice to make a
> criss-cross pattern, making a loop around each rib cap, and using one
> full length of reinforcing tape for each wing. This way, the ribs are
> tied together throughout the wing and the fabric will be unable to pull
> the ribs out of line, especially if the tape is reasonably snug.
>
> John Langston
> Pipe Creek, TX
> nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
Went to the AirCamper site and it lists two suppliers
of plans. In Kitplanes, there is also a supplier by
the name of Grega. Apparently, his plans are for
those interested in a tube fuselage. Do his plans
also cover the wing construction, or must I buy the
others to get a complete picture of the entire
project? How do the two sets of plans listed on the
AirCamper site differ? Any attempts to put all these
plans approaches into a single, updated and redrawn
set?
How wide are the cockpits?
Any builders/plans owners in MA, CT, RI or western NY?
Ed
Connecticut
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
Ed: If you want a Pietenpol buy the plans from the Pietenpol family.
Grega is a similar plane also very good, but not the same. I am building
in Whitman MA. know someone also building in Plymouth MA. Richard
DeCosta the Aircamper.org webmaster is in southern Maine, and is well
along in his project, I beleve he just installed his controls. Feel free
to contact me off list.
John Duprey
Edward Nolan wrote:
>
>
> Went to the AirCamper site and it lists two suppliers
> of plans. In Kitplanes, there is also a supplier by
> the name of Grega. Apparently, his plans are for
> those interested in a tube fuselage. Do his plans
> also cover the wing construction, or must I buy the
> others to get a complete picture of the entire
> project? How do the two sets of plans listed on the
> AirCamper site differ? Any attempts to put all these
> plans approaches into a single, updated and redrawn
> set?
>
> How wide are the cockpits?
>
> Any builders/plans owners in MA, CT, RI or western NY?
>
> Ed
> Connecticut
>
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
Dave and Connie
I didn't catch the western, NY part of this on the first pass by.
My slowly moving project is south of Rochester, NY and there is a
dentist in Brockport that has one he purchased to fly and one that
is almost flying. If Tom Bowdler hasn't sent you a note let me
know and I will get you hooked up. There is also one parked at
01G that is owned by a CFI.
There are a lot of Piets and Piet projects around.
Dave
>
>Ed: If you want a Pietenpol buy the plans from the Pietenpol family.
>Grega is a similar plane also very good, but not the same. I am building
>in Whitman MA. know someone also building in Plymouth MA. Richard
>DeCosta the Aircamper.org webmaster is in southern Maine, and is well
>along in his project, I beleve he just installed his controls. Feel free
>to contact me off list.
>
>John Duprey
>
>Edward Nolan wrote:
>>
>>
>> Went to the AirCamper site and it lists two suppliers
>> of plans. In Kitplanes, there is also a supplier by
>> the name of Grega. Apparently, his plans are for
>> those interested in a tube fuselage. Do his plans
>> also cover the wing construction, or must I buy the
>> others to get a complete picture of the entire
>> project? How do the two sets of plans listed on the
>> AirCamper site differ? Any attempts to put all these
>> plans approaches into a single, updated and redrawn
>> set?
>>
>> How wide are the cockpits?
>>
>> Any builders/plans owners in MA, CT, RI or western NY?
>>
>> Ed
>> Connecticut
>>
>> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard DeCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
"Richard DeCosta"
Feel free to contact me off the list as well. I am in Scarborough, ME, right
next to Portland. If you're going to be in the area, you can come by and see
one in person.
Completed to date:
- All woodwork on fuselage
- Horizontal & vertical stabilizers, rudder & elevators
- Control system in fuselage
- 28 wing ribs, most of left wing construction
- Most of Model A conversion
- Motor mount, cowling
Cheers,
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Duprey" <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Plans
>
> Ed: If you want a Pietenpol buy the plans from the Pietenpol family.
> Grega is a similar plane also very good, but not the same. I am building
> in Whitman MA. know someone also building in Plymouth MA. Richard
> DeCosta the Aircamper.org webmaster is in southern Maine, and is well
> along in his project, I beleve he just installed his controls. Feel free
> to contact me off list.
>
> John Duprey
>
> Edward Nolan wrote:
> >
> >
> > Went to the AirCamper site and it lists two suppliers
> > of plans. In Kitplanes, there is also a supplier by
> > the name of Grega. Apparently, his plans are for
> > those interested in a tube fuselage. Do his plans
> > also cover the wing construction, or must I buy the
> > others to get a complete picture of the entire
> > project? How do the two sets of plans listed on the
> > AirCamper site differ? Any attempts to put all these
> > plans approaches into a single, updated and redrawn
> > set?
> >
> > How wide are the cockpits?
> >
> > Any builders/plans owners in MA, CT, RI or western NY?
> >
> > Ed
> > Connecticut
> >
> > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
The plans from Donald pietenpol are all you need,
along with this discussion group, which is
invaluable.the cockpit is 22 inches wide inside.
del
--- Edward Nolan wrote:
>
>
> Went to the AirCamper site and it lists two
> suppliers
> of plans. In Kitplanes, there is also a supplier by
> the name of Grega. Apparently, his plans are for
> those interested in a tube fuselage. Do his plans
> also cover the wing construction, or must I buy the
> others to get a complete picture of the entire
> project? How do the two sets of plans listed on the
> AirCamper site differ? Any attempts to put all these
> plans approaches into a single, updated and redrawn
> set?
>
> How wide are the cockpits?
>
> Any builders/plans owners in MA, CT, RI or western
> NY?
>
> Ed
> Connecticut
>
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Weeks <tony_weeks(at)juno.com> |
Check out www.replicraft.com, they sell a fast build kit for the
Aircamper.
The Grega Aircamper is a modified design and not really a Pietenpol.
Tony
writes:
>
>
>Went to the AirCamper site and it lists two suppliers
>of plans. In Kitplanes, there is also a supplier by
>the name of Grega. Apparently, his plans are for
>those interested in a tube fuselage. Do his plans
>also cover the wing construction, or must I buy the
>others to get a complete picture of the entire
>project? How do the two sets of plans listed on the
>AirCamper site differ? Any attempts to put all these
>plans approaches into a single, updated and redrawn
>set?
>
>How wide are the cockpits?
>
>Any builders/plans owners in MA, CT, RI or western NY?
>
>Ed
>Connecticut
>
>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Replicraft address |
The web address for Replicraft Aviation is;
http://www.replicraftaviation.com/
Carl
Sign up with Paypal,it's free and they will
give you $5.00 just for joining.
https://secure.paypal.x.com/refer/pal=skycarl%40megsinet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks to one and all for the plans information. Will
be in contact with the "eastern contingent" shortly.
Cheers.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
"'Woodflier(at)aol.com'"
SteveE here,
I did install the 2" x 1/16" ply and the diagonals... The problem is at the
spar itself. two nails and a dab of glue isn't enough to hold the rib in
place. the rib is pulled outboard on top of the spar. The fix is simply to
increase the surface area of the glue joint at each intersection of rib and
spar on both front and back spars. A small wedge of scrap to back up the
rib or a full piece between the root and the root plus one rib would do the
trick. Every where else the rib has stayed in place.
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Woodflier(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Root Rib
This is the way I did it on my plane too. I would only add that if I were
to do it again, I would add a bridge strip between the root rib and the one
next to it. My fabric over the past two years has pulled the rib toward the
tip slightly causing a slight pucker. Adding a spar cap would prevent this.
Stevee
***************
Steve, did you install the 2" 1/16 plywood bracing strips along the top and
bottom of the root rib, and the diagonal bracing to the top and bottom cap
strips in the bay between the spars? Mine seems pretty sturdy with that, but
I haven't covered yet...
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard DeCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
"Richard DeCosta"
I already know about Aircraft Spruce and Wicks, but just about everything
you're
going to buy for the Piet someone has some insider knowledge about a
cheaper place to get it. Is there a better source for 4130?
Cheers,
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
"'Richard DeCosta'"
Dillsburg Aeroplane works.
(717) 432-4589
They came in avout 20% cheaper on a $1000 order over AS&S and Airparts.
Shipping from PA will be cheaper for you too.
Call them for a price list.
Stevee.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
DeCosta
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 4130 sources
I already know about Aircraft Spruce and Wicks, but just about everything
you're
going to buy for the Piet someone has some insider knowledge about a
cheaper place to get it. Is there a better source for 4130?
Cheers,
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 4130 sources |
Dillsburg Aeroplane in Dillsburg, PA,just outside of
Harrisburg, is known for excellent steel prices.
Three first class stamps will get you the price sheet.
Don't have the street address/phone here, but
information for the Harrisburg can get you the number
in Dillsburg.
Ed
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard DeCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 4130 sources |
"Richard DeCosta"
For those interested, I found the address:
The Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
114 Sawmill Rd.
Dillsburg, PA 17019
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Nolan" <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 4130 sources
>
> Dillsburg Aeroplane in Dillsburg, PA,just outside of
> Harrisburg, is known for excellent steel prices.
> Three first class stamps will get you the price sheet.
> Don't have the street address/phone here, but
> information for the Harrisburg can get you the number
> in Dillsburg.
>
> Ed
>
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Hi Piets
This message will insult many intellectuals but since I haven't been in a
math class since 1939 I have a simple question.
I desire to set my wings at a 1 1/2 degree dihedral. ( 3 pc wing). How much
of a rise in inches at the last outboard rib or just try and tell me the math
involved?
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks to all those who sent information on the root rib problems. We're
about done making our wing, but it's not too late to make changes. This
kind of informnation helps a lot.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
"Michael Conkling"
Hi Corky
The Trig way to find isn't too bad if you have a calculator -- what you want
is the TAN of 1 1/2 degrees -- this times the distance out will give you the
rise (you really should use COS, but this way will get you close enough! ;-)
Another way is to use the fact that 1" rise in 57" (+ a bit!) will give you
an angle of 1 degree -- sometimes this is more useful than trying to layout
something with a protractor. Up to about 15" of rise (to the 57" run) you
are within 1/4 degree of the "protractor" angle.
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dihedral
>
> Hi Piets
> This message will insult many intellectuals but since I haven't been in a
> math class since 1939 I have a simple question.
> I desire to set my wings at a 1 1/2 degree dihedral. ( 3 pc wing). How
much
> of a rise in inches at the last outboard rib or just try and tell me the
math
> involved?
> Corky in La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
exactly which ribs are the root ribs?
del
--- Steve Eldredge wrote:
>
>
> SteveE here,
>
> I did install the 2" x 1/16" ply and the
> diagonals... The problem is at the
> spar itself. two nails and a dab of glue isn't
> enough to hold the rib in
> place. the rib is pulled outboard on top of the
> spar. The fix is simply to
> increase the surface area of the glue joint at each
> intersection of rib and
> spar on both front and back spars. A small wedge of
> scrap to back up the
> rib or a full piece between the root and the root
> plus one rib would do the
> trick. Every where else the rib has stayed in
> place.
>
> Steve E
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On
> Behalf Of
> Woodflier(at)aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 8:00 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Root Rib
>
>
> Woodflier(at)aol.com
>
>
>
> This is the way I did it on my plane too. I would
> only add that if I were
> to do it again, I would add a bridge strip between
> the root rib and the one
> next to it. My fabric over the past two years has
> pulled the rib toward the
> tip slightly causing a slight pucker. Adding a spar
> cap would prevent this.
>
> Stevee
>
> ***************
>
> Steve, did you install the 2" 1/16 plywood bracing
> strips along the top and
> bottom of the root rib, and the diagonal bracing to
> the top and bottom cap
> strips in the bay between the spars? Mine seems
> pretty sturdy with that, but
>
> I haven't covered yet...
>
> Matt Paxton
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/16/00 5:46:25 PM Central Daylight Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
<< I desire to set my wings at a 1 1/2 degree dihedral. ( 3 pc wing). >>
Hey Corky, lets consider for a moment what this dihedral is going to do for
you. In flight, acording to Bernard and Vi Cappler, it will do very
little...if anything. The design of the wing tips tend to be a substitute
for digedral. During static display, it will deter from the classic lines
of a Pietenpol, or for that matter any vintage aircraft. In my humble
oppinion, you should rig the wing straight, with no washout. Keep it simple
and easy. If you keep the ball in the middle during flight, a hershey bar
wing will inherently stall inboard first, eliminating the need for washout.
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jared wilkinson <jared_wilkinson(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 4130 sources |
jared wilkinson
Hey, Richard, we use 4130 Chromium-Molybdenum Steel
from Jorgensen Steel & Aluminum (an E.M.J. Company).
They sell standard 4130, as well as a variety of
Aircraft Quality alloys. They will probably be a
little cheaper, I hope. I haven't ever compared
prices pound for pound. Good luck.
Jared
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Michael D Cuy
Corky- As a wise flight instructor once told me.......birds have dihedral so
> it must be right. You can rig your Piet any way you like......it WILL
> fly easier hands-off when you are fumbling around trying to fold a chart
> or putting your gloves on if you have some dihedral. A Piet rigged
with zero
> dihedral sometimes gives the illusion that the wings droop somewhat too.
> Chuck G. is right though about the look. I'm not crazy about the way mine
> looks from certain angles......but I don't mind because of the handling
> benefits.
> Cubs and Champs have washout.....(and dihedral) and it won't hurt to put
> some in for positive
> aileron control to the very end of a stall.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Dillsburg 4130 pricing |
I have the Dillsburg pricing sheet at home and can dig
through it tonight to get current costs for tubing or
sheet steel, should anyone want it. However, if you
want your own price list, the cost is just three first
class stamps.
Ed
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Responses on the Dihedral question |
Dear Piets,
Thank you all for your kind and knowledgable comments. It WAS NOT and IS NOT
my intention to open the dihedral can of worms. I have from the beginning
intended to build in a slight dihedral. I feel that Mr Pietenpol built a flat
wing because of no other option having a continous one piece spar. My reason
for the dihedral is from flying certain aircraft in past years. Three stand
out in my memory. The Aeronca had a nice dihedral and was certainly a stable,
forgiving on stall out and better visibility in flight. Another one I liked
was the old Dehavilland Beaver. It too had dihedral and was an extremely
stable craft. I don't know what degree of dihedral is built in a Cessna 172
and larger but the old military version Cessna, L-19 (O-1) was by far the
most flyable and enjoyable aircraft I've ever flown. I checked my old papers
and found it to have a dihedral of 2 degrees 8 minutes. This finding was the
more deciding point on the dihedral.
No disagreement with the straight wing people please. It's like in the
military, no two will wear their hat at the same angle.
LOVE
PEACE
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED GRENTZER" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | panel mount com radios |
I installed the instument panel struts in my fuselage yesterday and
realized there is only 6" depth to the panel. I had planned to install
a simple com radio powered by a small rechargable 12v battery as I live
in a busy area and flying without a com would be asking for trouble.
Checking my cataloges the shortest com radio I found is over 9" deep.
I know I could use a handheld but prefer a panel mount. Has anyone out
there made their panel deeper or found a short radio? I saw Buzz Baer's Piet
in the image library, his panel looks deeper than standard,but his might be
a long fuselage? does anyone out there have any suggestions?
Ed G.
Palm Harbor Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | panel mount com radios |
Ed,,, How about a boxed in extention panel angled down slightly centered
under the
instrument panel,,,You should still have plenty of room for the stick. Just
a thought.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ED
GRENTZER
Subject: Pietenpol-List: panel mount com radios
I installed the instument panel struts in my fuselage yesterday and
realized there is only 6" depth to the panel. I had planned to install
a simple com radio powered by a small rechargable 12v battery as I live
in a busy area and flying without a com would be asking for trouble.
Checking my cataloges the shortest com radio I found is over 9" deep.
I know I could use a handheld but prefer a panel mount. Has anyone out
there made their panel deeper or found a short radio? I saw Buzz Baer's Piet
in the image library, his panel looks deeper than standard,but his might be
a long fuselage? does anyone out there have any suggestions?
Ed G.
Palm Harbor Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Sheets" <doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Wood kits from Canada |
"Doug Sheets"
Listers:
Has anyone else heard the rumor that the Canadian supplier for Piet wood
kits is retiring? I just heard this, and wonder if it's true. I think his
name is Mr. Peters? (not sure).
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Griffin <griffins(at)emji.net> |
| Subject: | Re: panel mount com radios |
Hi Ed,
I remember seeing in either Kitplanes or Custom Plane a very small
com/nav,
but I don't remember the company name. I think it fit in a standard
instrument hole. There was also a remote head type where the radio fit
somewhere else and only the display was in the panel. I'll try to find
the article today and send more info.
Jeff
ED GRENTZER wrote:
>
>
> I installed the instument panel struts in my fuselage yesterday and
> realized there is only 6" depth to the panel. I had planned to install
> a simple com radio powered by a small rechargable 12v battery as I live
> in a busy area and flying without a com would be asking for trouble.
> Checking my cataloges the shortest com radio I found is over 9" deep.
> I know I could use a handheld but prefer a panel mount. Has anyone out
> there made their panel deeper or found a short radio? I saw Buzz Baer's Piet
> in the image library, his panel looks deeper than standard,but his might be
> a long fuselage? does anyone out there have any suggestions?
>
> Ed G.
> Palm Harbor Fl.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Redeye" <intercon(at)netactive.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: panel mount com radios |
Hi I had the same problem and fitted a Micro Air Tranceiver ,It has a built
in intercom
and is very small fits fine into a Piet panel-Mico air is available here
from the Jabiru distributers.
Im sure the radio is available in the USA
Hope this helps
Regards Doug Reeve
Johannesburg RSA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com> |
At the risk of showing my ignorance which ribs are identified as "root ribs"
on the 3-piece wing, the ones on the inboard of the wing panels or the ones
at the outboard end???????
Dave Boyd, Champaign, IL , just finishing rib #32.
>From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, Steve Eldredge
>To: "'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'" ,
>"'Woodflier(at)aol.com'"
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Root Rib
>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:13:40 -0600
>
>
>SteveE here,
>
>I did install the 2" x 1/16" ply and the diagonals... The problem is at
>the
>spar itself. two nails and a dab of glue isn't enough to hold the rib in
>place. the rib is pulled outboard on top of the spar. The fix is simply
>to
>increase the surface area of the glue joint at each intersection of rib and
>spar on both front and back spars. A small wedge of scrap to back up the
>rib or a full piece between the root and the root plus one rib would do the
>trick. Every where else the rib has stayed in place.
>
>Steve E
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>Woodflier(at)aol.com
>Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 8:00 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Root Rib
>
>
>This is the way I did it on my plane too. I would only add that if I were
>to do it again, I would add a bridge strip between the root rib and the one
>next to it. My fabric over the past two years has pulled the rib toward
>the
>tip slightly causing a slight pucker. Adding a spar cap would prevent
>this.
>
>Stevee
>
>***************
>
>Steve, did you install the 2" 1/16 plywood bracing strips along the top and
>bottom of the root rib, and the diagonal bracing to the top and bottom cap
>strips in the bay between the spars? Mine seems pretty sturdy with that,
>but
>
>I haven't covered yet...
>
>Matt Paxton
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: panel mount com radios |
I have thought about putting the radio in the trailing edge of the wing. It
could be mounted from the rear spar at a slight downwards angle. The jacks
etc could be in the cockpit, cables routed along the struts. It would allow
the panel to retain the classic old timey look.
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Loar <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: panel mount com radios
>
> Ed,,, How about a boxed in extention panel angled down slightly centered
> under the
> instrument panel,,,You should still have plenty of room for the stick.
Just
> a thought.
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ED
> GRENTZER
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 1:08 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: panel mount com radios
>
>
>
>
> I installed the instument panel struts in my fuselage yesterday and
> realized there is only 6" depth to the panel. I had planned to install
> a simple com radio powered by a small rechargable 12v battery as I live
> in a busy area and flying without a com would be asking for trouble.
> Checking my cataloges the shortest com radio I found is over 9" deep.
> I know I could use a handheld but prefer a panel mount. Has anyone out
> there made their panel deeper or found a short radio? I saw Buzz Baer's
Piet
> in the image library, his panel looks deeper than standard,but his might
be
> a long fuselage? does anyone out there have any suggestions?
>
> Ed G.
> Palm Harbor Fl.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Wood kits from Canada |
Doug,,,, That's what Jean Peters told me when I purchased my wood from him
in
Feb. He said that he would be retiring in June of 2001
Still got a while to purchase from him.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Doug
Sheets
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood kits from Canada
Listers:
Has anyone else heard the rumor that the Canadian supplier for Piet wood
kits is retiring? I just heard this, and wonder if it's true. I think his
name is Mr. Peters? (not sure).
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/16/00 8:17:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, steve(at)byu.edu
writes:
<<
SteveE here,
I did install the 2" x 1/16" ply and the diagonals... The problem is at the
spar itself. two nails and a dab of glue isn't enough to hold the rib in
place. the rib is pulled outboard on top of the spar. The fix is simply to
increase the surface area of the glue joint at each intersection of rib and
spar on both front and back spars. A small wedge of scrap to back up the
rib or a full piece between the root and the root plus one rib would do the
trick. Every where else the rib has stayed in place.
Steve E
>>
Mine did the very same thing on the one block I for got to install. Thx Doug
Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
so are you guys talking about the 3 piece wing only or
is this something I should be concerned about in my
one piece wing?
del
> Doug413(at)aol.com
>
> In a message dated 10/16/00 8:17:38 AM Pacific
> Daylight Time, steve(at)byu.edu
> writes:
>
> <<
> SteveE here,
>
> I did install the 2" x 1/16" ply and the
> diagonals... The problem is at the
> spar itself. two nails and a dab of glue isn't
> enough to hold the rib in
> place. the rib is pulled outboard on top of the
> spar. The fix is simply to
> increase the surface area of the glue joint at each
> intersection of rib and
> spar on both front and back spars. A small wedge
> of scrap to back up the
> rib or a full piece between the root and the root
> plus one rib would do the
> trick. Every where else the rib has stayed in
> place.
>
> Steve E
> >>
> Mine did the very same thing on the one block I for
> got to install. Thx Doug
> Bryant
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Responses on the Dihedral question |
"Richard Navratil"
I am building a one piece wing. It is almost finished and I put in 1"
dihedral. I found it easy to set up and I am very happy with the
appearance.
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Responses on the Dihedral question
>
> Dear Piets,
> Thank you all for your kind and knowledgable comments. It WAS NOT and IS
NOT
> my intention to open the dihedral can of worms. I have from the beginning
> intended to build in a slight dihedral. I feel that Mr Pietenpol built a
flat
> wing because of no other option having a continous one piece spar. My
reason
> for the dihedral is from flying certain aircraft in past years. Three
stand
> out in my memory. The Aeronca had a nice dihedral and was certainly a
stable,
> forgiving on stall out and better visibility in flight. Another one I
liked
> was the old Dehavilland Beaver. It too had dihedral and was an extremely
> stable craft. I don't know what degree of dihedral is built in a Cessna
172
> and larger but the old military version Cessna, L-19 (O-1) was by far the
> most flyable and enjoyable aircraft I've ever flown. I checked my old
papers
> and found it to have a dihedral of 2 degrees 8 minutes. This finding was
the
> more deciding point on the dihedral.
> No disagreement with the straight wing people please. It's like in the
> military, no two will wear their hat at the same angle.
> LOVE
> PEACE
> Corky in La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Eldredge
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Root Rib
Thats a good question:
The root of a wing is where the wing "grows" from. Usually the center of
the airplane where it joins the fuse. Obviously there isn't such a place on
a piet if you are building a 1 piece wing. If however you you have a 3
piece wing there is a "root" on each wing panel. The Root Rib I have been
talking about is the first rib in the wing if you are counting toward the
wing tip from the joint. There are 2 root ribs in a 3 piece wing. One left
and one on the right. The center section tip ribs should also be reinforced
as well, but on my ship it puckering hasn't been a problem on the center
section. Less fabric to do the pulling I guess.
Hope this helps
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: del magsam [mailto:farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com]
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Root Rib
exactly which ribs are the root ribs?
del
--- Steve Eldredge wrote:
>
>
> SteveE here,
>
> I did install the 2" x 1/16" ply and the
> diagonals... The problem is at the
> spar itself. two nails and a dab of glue isn't
> enough to hold the rib in
> place. the rib is pulled outboard on top of the
> spar. The fix is simply to
> increase the surface area of the glue joint at each
> intersection of rib and
> spar on both front and back spars. A small wedge of
> scrap to back up the
> rib or a full piece between the root and the root
> plus one rib would do the
> trick. Every where else the rib has stayed in
> place.
>
> Steve E
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On
> Behalf Of
> Woodflier(at)aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 8:00 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Root Rib
>
>
> Woodflier(at)aol.com
>
>
>
> This is the way I did it on my plane too. I would
> only add that if I were
> to do it again, I would add a bridge strip between
> the root rib and the one
> next to it. My fabric over the past two years has
> pulled the rib toward the
> tip slightly causing a slight pucker. Adding a spar
> cap would prevent this.
>
> Stevee
>
> ***************
>
> Steve, did you install the 2" 1/16 plywood bracing
> strips along the top and
> bottom of the root rib, and the diagonal bracing to
> the top and bottom cap
> strips in the bay between the spars? Mine seems
> pretty sturdy with that, but
>
> I haven't covered yet...
>
> Matt Paxton
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: panel mount com radios |
Ed,
Have you considered mounting the radio on the right side of the cockpit below
the instrument panel?
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WaltSnyder(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: panel mount com radios |
Ed,
The Nov. 2000 issue of Custom Planes has an article under the Electronics &
Aviation section titled "Beckers Compact Microboxes" that deals with
radios, transponders, etc that will fit just about any where. The info
provided was Becker Avionics Systems, 800/877-BECKER, e-mail
info(at)beckerusa.com, www.beckerusa.com.
Walt Snyder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard DeCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Guage conversion |
"Richard DeCosta"
I'm at the point of ordering my landing gear material, but I need a hand
with the conversion. How to I get 14GA, 16GA, etc into the measurment in
inches, or whatever the catalogs use?
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dick Nelsen <richard.nelsen(at)sdl.usu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Guage conversion |
Dick Nelsen
Richard DeCosta wrote:
>
> I'm at the point of ordering my landing gear material, but I need a hand
> with the conversion. How to I get 14GA, 16GA, etc into the measurment in
> inches, or whatever the catalogs use?
>
> Richard
>
Richard,
Here are some numbers that I use for steel.
16 ga=.0598
18 ga=.0478
20 ga=.0359
22 ga=.0299
24ga=.0239
You might want to refer to the AS&SC catalog, they have a chart on pg 68 of the
1999/2000 cat.
Hope this helps.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED GRENTZER" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: panel mount com radios |
Hi Tom
Funny, I was looking at that very spot this morning thinking that one of
those instrument sized coms would fit over in the right hand corner under
the panel angled downward. Fortunatly the fellow from Johanisburg "Redeye"
gave me the name of the com unit that he has in his panel. So hopefully I
can find someone who handles it in the states.
Thanks for the thought.
Ed G.
Palm Harbor Fl.
>From: TomTravis(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, TomTravis(at)aol.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, skycarl(at)megsinet.net
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: panel mount com radios
>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:54:55 EDT
>
>
>Ed,
>
>Have you considered mounting the radio on the right side of the cockpit
>below
>the instrument panel?
>
>
>Tom Travis
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jared wilkinson <jared_wilkinson(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Guage conversion |
jared wilkinson
14 Ga. =.0747"
13 Ga. =.0897"
12 Ga. =.1046"
11 Ga. =.1196"
10 Ga. =.1345"
Here's some more, if you haven't already found them.
Jared
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daryl Bortel" <dbortel1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood kits from Canada |
"Daryl Bortel"
Yes it is true. Mr Peters is retiring next year when he loses the lease on
his building. It will be around September, I think.
Daryl Bortel
St Petersburg FL
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Sheets <doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood kits from Canada
>
> Listers:
> Has anyone else heard the rumor that the Canadian supplier for Piet wood
> kits is retiring? I just heard this, and wonder if it's true. I think his
> name is Mr. Peters? (not sure).
> Doug
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dillsburg 4130 pricing |
Richard,
Dillsburg information is listed within brackets. All
tube prices are per foot. Sheet 4130 steel is per
square foot. Wall thinknesses are next size up unless
otherwise indicated. Perhaps others could comment on
their size selections. By the way, what is the
longest single piece of tube required?
> Here's what I come up with in inches:
> 4130 tube
> 112" of 1 3/8" 14GA = .075" [.083 @ $3.85 for
lengths 1' to 3' or $3.46 for lengths 4' - 16']
> 24" of 1 1/4" 16GA = .060" [.065 @ $3.10 for lengths
1' - 3' or $2.79 for lengths 4' - 16']
> 90" of 3/4" 18GA = .048" [.049 @ $2.00 for lengths
1' - 3' or $1.80 for lengths 4' -16']
> Sheet metal (not sure what kind) I'm assuming 4130
N.
> 100 sq in of 14GA ~= .0747" [.080 @ $9.50/sq. ft. in
lengths of 36"]
> 10 sq in of 1/4" steel = (I assume) .25" [.090 @
$10.40/sq. ft. in lengths of 36"]
It's noted in the pricing info that UPS is the
cheapest way to ship if you can use lengths of 8' or
less. Also, if such is the case, D'burg will cut at
no charge. Anything over 8' must ship by truck.
Ed
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard DeCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
"Richard DeCosta"
After building a few of their models myself, I managed to persuade Fiddlers
Green to design a Pietenpol model. After referencing some images on
aircamper.org, and consulting with me on several design points, here is the
result: http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/private/pietenpol/pietenpl.htm
It's only $3 to buy, after which you download and print it onto card stock,
cut and glue. I dont know if they are planning on Continental or Covair
versions. I hope they are. Knowing this group, I'm sure it'd be simple
enough to modify the model to suit your taste.
Enjoy! I sure do!
Richard
http://www.aircamper.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard DeCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Make that a FREE Piet model |
"Richard DeCosta"
Just got an email from Chip at Fiddlers Green. Turns out he's letting me use
the Piet model as a free gift to aircamper.org visitors. What a guy!
http://aircamper.org/model.cfm
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Guage conversion |
Richard,
Gauge conversion to decimal equiviants will vary depending on whose
system you use. We ran inot this same problem when we went to buy steel
and I fortunately picked up a book a long time ago that has these various
tables. The book I have is Aircraft and Missle Design and Maintenance
Hanbook by Charles A. Overly.
Gauges between wire, tubing, and flat steel have different decimal
equivilents, but for flat steel we used .090 for 13 ga., .080 for 14 ga.
and .030 for 22 ga.
If you want, I can make copies of these tables and send them to you.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Del,
I had a hard time with this too. I thought they were talking about the
rib furthest OB, the one next to the tip and I couldn't rerally see how
this was bending over if the ribs had been tied together. What they are
talking about is what is called the butt rib which is the most IB. They
are talikng about a three piece wing where the wing comes to an end at
the centersection and there is a natural tendency for the fabric to pull
the rib over as it taughtens. Fabric will continue to tighten long after
it has been painted, especially with dope.
A lot of people don't realize how much pressure fabric can exert on a
frame as it shrinks, but it can actually crush a structure. I owned a
dope a fabric shop years ago and covered a number of Tri-Pacers and Cubs.
Some old-timers believed that more dope should be applied to the upper
surfaces of the wings because this side is more exposwed to the sun and
needed more protection. All such airplanes that I recovered had the
wooden wing tip bows bent upwards by the force of the dope shrinking the
fabric. I also recovered a Stearman over twenty years ago and bought a
pre-sewn envelope for the fuselage. I had done quite a bit of work on
the frame and had made a whole new "birdcage" for it. This is made out
of hat shaped aluminum which is quite strong. A grade A cotton envelope
should fit pretty loose as cotton does shrink a lot and will do so right
away. When you brush on water at one end of a wing or fuselage, the
fabric will start to shrink before you get to the other end. Anyway,
this envelope was tight and had virtually no slack. I really didn't
think too much about it as a Stearman has the same desigh philosophy as a
Sherman tank, but I soaked the envelope and as it began to shrink I could
hear the "birdcage" creaking, snapping, and popping as it was more or
less being crushed. I think my ulcers were bleeding, but in the end
everything came out alright, nothing was damaged, and nobody could say
the fabric wasn't on tight enough.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Redeye" <intercon(at)netactive.co.za> |
| Subject: | AVIATION VHF RADIOS (Avionics, Pilot Supplies and Gifts) |
Here is a link to a site advertising Microair 760 transceivers
Regards Doug Reeve
http://www.vargaair.com/radios.htm
name="AVIATION VHF RADIOS (Avionics, Pilot Supplies and Gifts).url"
filename="AVIATION VHF RADIOS (Avionics, Pilot Supplies and Gifts).url"
[DEFAULT]
BASEURL=http://www.vargaair.com/radios.htm
[InternetShortcut]
URL=http://www.vargaair.com/radios.htm
Modified=009BCDDFED39C0012E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patcoolnet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Make that a FREE Piet model |
Richard--
I went to the air camper site, clicked the download here link,downloaded and
got a blank screen. The right click on my mouse does nothing. What am I
doing wrong?
Pat Cooley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard DeCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Make that a FREE Piet model |
"Richard DeCosta"
You need Adobe acrobat viewer (free) to view and print the model. Go to
http://download.cnet.com/ and search for Acrobat Reader to find the one for
your system.
After installing it you can either click on the link directly, or save it to
your harddrive and double-click on it from there. You will probably need to
restart your browser.
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: <Patcoolnet(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Make that a FREE Piet model
> Richard--
>
> I went to the air camper site, clicked the download here link,downloaded
and
> got a blank screen. The right click on my mouse does nothing. What am I
> doing wrong?
>
> Pat Cooley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Birds have it |
Jack Phillips
Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
>
> Corky- As a wise flight instructor once told me.......birds have dihedral so
> > it must be right. You can rig your Piet any way you like......it WILL
> > fly easier hands-off when you are fumbling around trying to fold a chart
> > or putting your gloves on if you have some dihedral. A Piet rigged
> with zero
> > dihedral sometimes gives the illusion that the wings droop somewhat too.
> > Chuck G. is right though about the look. I'm not crazy about the way mine
> > looks from certain angles......but I don't mind because of the handling
> > benefits.
> > Cubs and Champs have washout.....(and dihedral) and it won't hurt to put
> > some in for positive
> > aileron control to the very end of a stall.
>
primarily to get rid of the "droopy" look that an absolutely flat wing
presents, but also to get a little stability benefit.
Jack Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
Is there any reason to track hours spent on a project rather that just
keeping a log of what you did and when?
Joe
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel and useful load |
In looking at the AirCamper.org site and figuring the
gross weight with the various fuel quantities listed
(don't have my plans yet), it becomes obvious that you
must be careful in fuel and passenger loads.
What seems to be the most popular fuel load to carry
in the fuselge tank and just how much can be carried
in a center section wing tank, if installed? Does
anyone have other combinations for fuel storage? Is
995 lbs. the accepted maximum weight for the aircraft
(just asking--I'm 165 lbs. and my wife is 125 lbs.)?
How many folks manage to carry two souls, an overnight
bag and perhaps a small tent for a flyout?
Is there an accepted maximum front passenger weight?
Ed
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tracking Hours |
| From: | Chris a Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
No, according to my local FAA they just need to see you (or some one who
will signed the log book and did not get payed) did greater then 51% of
the work. How ever you want to prove this is up to you. Just make sure
your local FAA will accept it.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Re: Tracking Hours |
leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Joe: Its fun to take your hours and multiply them by the hourly shop
rate of your favorite A&P. Gives you some idea of what your plane is
worth to you! Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cockpit size in an Aircamper |
| From: | Tony Weeks <tony_weeks(at)juno.com> |
I went to the EAA chapter 105 meeting on Thursday and everybody I talked
to was sure that I was too big to get into a Piet. I'm 6'5" and nearly
300 pounds ( yes I know loose weight, at least now I'm motivated.)
I'm wondering how much length and width can be added to an Air Camper
without screwing up the design?
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cockpit size in an Aircamper |
I'm assuming from your last posting that you are open for suggestions:
First, combine the would be two cockpits into a lounge for a single. You
wouldn't be able to lift off with a front passenger. Second, go ahead and
widen the fuse a few inches. Would cause a few dimension changes in the
centersection and the wings, so what. Third, Eat less pasta and exercise
more.
Corky in La where we eat lots of Cajun food.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Homer Simpson" <simpson_homer85(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | build time and cost |
"Homer Simpson"
Hello,
I am considering building a plane, and the peitenpol looks like it would
fulfill most of my needs. I have a few questions that I have not been able
to find answers to and I was hoping this list could provide them to me. 1.)
About how many hours will it take to build? 2.) How much faster does it go
together with the replicraft quick-build kit? 3.)What is the approximate
cost? Can it be done under $5000? 4.) I understand that this plane can be
built either from wood or tubing, what are the pro's and con's of each
method? Any opinions or suggestions will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Homer
________________________________________________________________________________
"Rodger & Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Tony,
Get the Pietenpol plans from Don Pietenpol (son of Bernard) or Orrin
Hoopman (original draftsman of the plans) and using any ol' scrap wood
make a mockup of the cockpit area to check for size limitations.
Then move the instrument panel area to what is a more comfortable
distance from you when you are seated in the mockup.
Add 2 to 3" to the width of the cockpit mock up for ease of fit. In the
final
analasis, the fuselage cross braces will need to be increase appropriatly.
Determine where the rudder bar or pedals, and joy stick will need to be
relocated to suit you.
Raise the turtle deck at the seat back about 2" and likewise the instrument
panel.
Strongly consider making the Piet a single seater as a passenger would
have to weigh 100 lbs or less.
Consider using a Corvair engine for a power plant as it gives more
horsepower than the Ford Model A does. The Corvair valve covers
should fit within the widened fuselage sides making for a neat engine
nacell.
At your weight consider moving the seat back and seat forward 4" for more
proper weight and balance. This will keep you from having to move the wing
back 4" or so with the attendant rearward slant to the cabanes.
Mockup the cabane struts and wing center section to see if you will be
able to get in the cockpit, and more importantly, what will be the clearance
from the bottom of the wing to your head when seated. Most people who
are more vertically challenged than you raise the wing and attendant cabane
struts by 2" to aid in getting in the cockpit. You may find 3" is a better
amount to raise the wing by.
Definately consider using a hinged section aft of the rear spar to allow
ease of entry to the cockpit. Hinged area would extend from the 1st rib
to the right of center line to the second rib to the left of center line.
Mockup
the hinged area too to check if it needs to extend to the left any more.
Increase the height of the cutouts in the forward cockpit seat back to clear
your shins. As it is now, with a 6 ft tall pilot, his shins will touch the
top of
the cutout.
Even if you decide finally not to go with a Piet, the above exercise will be
very interesting and keep us posted on progress of the mockup and, of
course, your very own Piet.
Good luck.
Rodger Childs
One piece winged Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: build time and cost |
--- Homer Simpson wrote:
> Simpson"
>
> Hello,
> I am considering building a plane, and the peitenpol
> looks like it would
> fulfill most of my needs. I have a few questions
> that I have not been able
> to find answers to and I was hoping this list could
> provide them to me.
1.) About how many hours will it take to build?
I,m about a third done and have a couple hundred hours
into it, I am buying some parts already done, gas
tank, ribs, motor mt, tailwheel. and engine.
2.) How
> much faster does it go
> together with the replicraft quick-build kit?
can't answer that one.
> 3.)What is the approximate
> cost? Can it be done under $5000?
easily. ,mine will have about $6000 in it with a
remanufactured corvair.
4.) I understand
> that this plane can be
> built either from wood or tubing, what are the pro's
> and con's of each
> method?
wood can be lighter and stronger, but it boils down to
what you are good at working with.
>
> Thanks,
> Homer
your welcome,
del
============================================================
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
"Homer Simpson"
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: build time and cost |
Dave and Connie
Homer,
As to question 4. My plane selection came down to a few
simple questions.
1) Do I want to expose myself to that much epoxy? I have
built a cedar strip canoe and have read the horror stories.
Glass planes were out.
2) Do I want to put my butt in something that I welded
together? I have seen my welding. No way.
3) Can I put in pop rivets? Yes, so the Zodiac was on the]
list.
4) Cut and glue wood? No problem, simple and cheap. That
got the Piet on the list.
5) Do I need to go fast or do I want to smell the roses. Thus
the Piet.
I am going with wood as it is easy to do right and is cheap. If
you have an acetylene outfit and can use it then you are a lot
farther than I would have been.
Dave
Flyin' a '41 TCraft and buildin' a wood Piet.
At 09:53 PM 10/21/00 GMT, you wrote:
>
>Hello,
>I am considering building a plane, and the peitenpol looks like it would
>fulfill most of my needs. I have a few questions that I have not been able
>to find answers to and I was hoping this list could provide them to me. 1.)
>About how many hours will it take to build? 2.) How much faster does it go
>together with the replicraft quick-build kit? 3.)What is the approximate
>cost? Can it be done under $5000? 4.) I understand that this plane can be
>built either from wood or tubing, what are the pro's and con's of each
>method? Any opinions or suggestions will be appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>Homer
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
"Homer Simpson"
| Subject: | build time and cost |
Homer,,, Wood,,,, It's lighter,,, it's pretty,,, it's easy to work with,,
and unless you are a master at pushing and filling the puddle,,, wood.
you'll get plenty of welding and metal work just in the controls and gear,
and motormount. wood homer,, wood
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Homer
Simpson
Subject: Pietenpol-List: build time and cost
Hello,
I am considering building a plane, and the peitenpol looks like it would
fulfill most of my needs. I have a few questions that I have not been able
to find answers to and I was hoping this list could provide them to me. 1.)
About how many hours will it take to build? 2.) How much faster does it go
together with the replicraft quick-build kit? 3.)What is the approximate
cost? Can it be done under $5000? 4.) I understand that this plane can be
built either from wood or tubing, what are the pro's and con's of each
method? Any opinions or suggestions will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Homer
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cockpit Size |
| From: | Tony Weeks <tony_weeks(at)juno.com> |
Thank you (and other that responded. I think all of you suggestions are
worth considering. I still have hopes of making it a 2 place plane.
Over the years of working in the software business and having bad knees
from a motorcycle crash have left me complacent about my weight and I
have a large frame to spread it out over. Even when I'm thin, I'm not
light. I calculated my ideal weight after a hydrostatic weighing and It
came out to 245 #s. I did the hydrostatic weighing to prove to an
asshole college professor that my ideal weight wasn't 192 #s.
I never considered using a model A ford engine that's far more nostalgia
than I'm willing to put up with. I was originally thinking about type 4
VW (914 Porsche) engine because well, I have one but a Corvair or a 3.3L
Subaru 6 would be a better choice.
I'm going to look at a used Piet that's for sale in my area next weekend,
after that I'll have a better feel for for the work I have to do. If I
can fit into it OK, I just might buy it.
Tony
<childsway@indian-creek.net> writes:
><childsway@indian-creek.net>
>
>Tony,
>
>Get the Pietenpol plans from Don Pietenpol (son of Bernard) or Orrin
>Hoopman (original draftsman of the plans) and using any ol' scrap
>wood
>make a mockup of the cockpit area to check for size limitations.
>
>Then move the instrument panel area to what is a more comfortable
>distance from you when you are seated in the mockup.
>
>Add 2 to 3" to the width of the cockpit mock up for ease of fit. In
>the
>final
>analasis, the fuselage cross braces will need to be increase
>appropriatly.
>
>Determine where the rudder bar or pedals, and joy stick will need to
>be
>relocated to suit you.
>
>Raise the turtle deck at the seat back about 2" and likewise the
>instrument
>panel.
>
>Strongly consider making the Piet a single seater as a passenger
>would
>have to weigh 100 lbs or less.
>
>Consider using a Corvair engine for a power plant as it gives more
>horsepower than the Ford Model A does. The Corvair valve covers
>should fit within the widened fuselage sides making for a neat engine
>nacell.
>
>At your weight consider moving the seat back and seat forward 4" for
>more
>proper weight and balance. This will keep you from having to move the
>wing
>back 4" or so with the attendant rearward slant to the cabanes.
>
>Mockup the cabane struts and wing center section to see if you will
>be
>able to get in the cockpit, and more importantly, what will be the
>clearance
>from the bottom of the wing to your head when seated. Most people who
>are more vertically challenged than you raise the wing and attendant
>cabane
>struts by 2" to aid in getting in the cockpit. You may find 3" is a
>better
>amount to raise the wing by.
>
>Definately consider using a hinged section aft of the rear spar to
>allow
>ease of entry to the cockpit. Hinged area would extend from the 1st
>rib
>to the right of center line to the second rib to the left of center
>line.
>Mockup
>the hinged area too to check if it needs to extend to the left any
>more.
>
>Increase the height of the cutouts in the forward cockpit seat back to
>clear
>your shins. As it is now, with a 6 ft tall pilot, his shins will touch
>the
>top of
>the cutout.
>
>Even if you decide finally not to go with a Piet, the above exercise
>will be
>very interesting and keep us posted on progress of the mockup and, of
>course, your very own Piet.
>
>Good luck.
>
>Rodger Childs
>One piece winged Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Homer Simpson" <simpson_homer85(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | build time and cost |
"Homer Simpson"
Thanks for the answers everyone. It seems that most everyone favors wood
over metal. I was kind of favoring the metal. I think I would feel safer
in a plane I welded together than one I glued together, but maybe that is
just because I have much more metal working experience. I would really like
something faster (and aerobatic), but as I am still a few years from
graduating college (Aerospace Engineering) it has to be cheap. Anyway, a
couple more general questions and then I'll shut up. Other than being a
taildragger, is the Pietenpol more difficult to fly than the C152 I am
training in? Does it fly very well with two people in it?
Thanks again,
Homer
BTW, am I the only one getting double messages? Did I do something wrong
when signing up or is this a common problem?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: build time and cost |
----- Original Message -----
From: "del magsam" <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: build time and cost
>
>
> --- Homer Simpson wrote:
> > Simpson"
> >
> > Hello,
> > I am considering building a plane, and the peitenpol
> > looks like it would
> > fulfill most of my needs. I have a few questions
> > that I have not been able
> > to find answers to and I was hoping this list could
> > provide them to me.
> 1.) About how many hours will it take to build?
>
> I,m about a third done and have a couple hundred hours
> into it, I am buying some parts already done, gas
> tank, ribs, motor mt, tailwheel. and engine.
ooh. Must be a much more efficient builder than me. I would bet the average
first-timer with regular tools, limited space, and a VERY steep learning
curve will spend more like 800 to 1300hrs. Even on a simple plane.
Especially if you do the metal fittings, fabric, etc yourself. You can
easily spend 6 or 8 hours (the first time) building a one-off component. -
At least I can :)
Some of the components Del mentioned are pretty labor intensive.
The ribs themselves will cost you around 100 hrs (at least they did me)
>
> 2.) How
> > much faster does it go
> > together with the replicraft quick-build kit?
>
>
> can't answer that one.
Me neither!~
Still takes time. Not sure
>
> > 3.)What is the approximate
> > cost? Can it be done under $5000?
>
> easily. ,mine will have about $6000 in it with a
> remanufactured corvair.
I cant say "easily".
I'd be surprised if the first-timer could build for under 5K.. Only if you
are a great scrounger. If you use an aicraft engine, aircraft wheels and
brakes, aircraft covering and paint , Chrome moly for evry piece of metal
and Spruce for every component, your probably gonna be over that. Now
that's not saying it CANT be done. Just saying the average person will have
a hard time keeping it under that. I've got about $3200 and maybe 500 hrs
in mine (with fuse being covered, tail group covered, ribs built and sitting
on all three) . But i've built everything solo and I don't have a building
partner so a lot of the learning process, fitting of parts, "making it
work", slows the whole thing down.
If you have a partner it may go faster. Ya know, "two heads are better than
one...even if one is a dunder-head"
>
> 4.) I understand
> > that this plane can be
> > built either from wood or tubing, what are the pro's
> > and con's of each
> > method?
>
>
> wood can be lighter and stronger, but it boils down to
> what you are good at working with.
>
> >
I agree w/ Del...
Both have advantages over the other. Most people find they feel more
comfortable with one or the other. If you are a very good welder, you might
feeel natural working with metal, most people I know are fairly experienced
with wood and have the basic tools and know how to set up a jig and build
something. Also they dont destroy quite so much building material with wood
while they are building a piece.
Jus my two cents,
Good Luck!
Go Wood.
\Bert
> > Thanks,
> > Homer
>
> your welcome,
> del
> ============================================================
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Responses on the Dihedral question |
| From: | John E Fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
>
>
> I am building a one piece wing. It is almost finished and I put in
> 1"
> dihedral. I found it easy to set up and I am very happy with the
> appearance.
> Dick Navratil
Dick,
How did you build in the dihedral on the one piece wing? This is what
I was planning to do, too, but had not yet decided what would be the
best way.
John in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: build time and cost |
| From: | John E Fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
Homer,
I'm not sure about the weight of a piet fuselage built of wood compared
to one built of steel tubing. I've always heard that the Steel fuselage
will save some weight, about 30 to 40 pounds over the wooden version.
I'm just starting on the fuselage now, and am building from wood. One
problem I encountered when I was just beginning and wasn't sure which to
use was that the regular plans are for the wooden fuse. The plans
include a basic scheme for the steel version, but no other details.
Exactly how to attach everything else, etc. would have to be figured out
by the builder. I then thought the best solution to that problem would
be to purchase Grega's plans, or some other steel tube plane's plans,
just to see how it was done by them. But as it turned out, I went with
the wood, because I have no experience with welding.
John in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Responses on the Dihedral question |
"Richard Navratil"
That was very easy. After completing the scarf joints on the spar sections,
I laid the spar on the 30 long table I had built. It had a true edge on the
front side. I marked the center line and end points. I simply screwed in a
scrap piece of wood at the ends marked 1" high of center. Then just glued,
nailed and clamped. Installed the plywood plates later.
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: "John E Fay" <jefay(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Responses on the Dihedral question
>
> >
> >
> > I am building a one piece wing. It is almost finished and I put in
> > 1"
> > dihedral. I found it easy to set up and I am very happy with the
> > appearance.
>
> > Dick Navratil
>
> Dick,
> How did you build in the dihedral on the one piece wing? This is what
> I was planning to do, too, but had not yet decided what would be the
> best way.
>
> John in Peoria
> ________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R DeCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
Would the people who emailed me questions last Thursday or Friday please
resend them? I have lost your original email and cant reply. Thanks!
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
Has anyone recently subscribed to the renamed
newsletter? Anyone know to whom the check should be
made out, the Broadhead Pietenpol Association or the
Independent Register, the printer?
Ed
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris a Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
Another question about tail construction.
What have people done with the 1/2"x 3/16" spruce strips where they meet
the trailing edge stock? Mine stick up about 1/8" inch above the
trailing edge on the top and bottom. Do I sand the strips and taper them
down to being flush with the trailing edge stock or do I leave them full
thickness and have a bump in the fabric when I cover the tail? I can't
seem to tell on any of the pictures of finished Piet tails.
Thanks as all ways the help is much appreciated
Chris
Sacramento, CA
Stop on by if you are ever in Sac.
What I would really like is for some one to fly their Piet here so I
could finally see one in person. I am tired of squinting at pictures on
my crummy computer monitor.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Powning <leopowning(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | New radial engine |
http://www.rotecradialengines.com/ has information on
a new 7 cylinder radial.
Leo
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | New radial engine |
Nice engine.... I noticed that there was no mention of price.
I'm thinking that it might look pretty nice out in front of a Piet.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Leo
Powning
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New radial engine
http://www.rotecradialengines.com/ has information on
a new 7 cylinder radial.
Leo
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Eliminating mags |
Check out this clever design that is currently in use on a
J-3. Essentially, your mag check will be to see if they are still sitting
on the workbench and not in the plane :-)
Seriously though, why didn't I think of it! It certainly sounds like an
efficient, reliable replacement to conventional spark plugs. Here's the
web page:
<http://www.smartplugs.com/>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fuselage cross struts |
Okay Gang,
This may seem like a dumb question. I'm building up my fuselage sides now,
and I was looking ahead to joining them together. Are the braces that run
between the fuselage halves really 1/2" x 1"? Those seem awful light. I
assume that you attach them with the 1" correspnding to the 1" longerons
instead of flat? I see it on the plans but I still have trouble believing
it.
Thanks,
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Has anyone put the OT 10 cam in their corvair engine as mentioned by
Wm.Wynne?
I just wonder if it makes that big of a difference.
Carl
Please visit my website at
http://www.megsinet.net/skycarl
Sign up with Paypal,it's free and they will
give you $5.00 just for joining.
https://secure.paypal.x.com/refer/pal=skycarl%40megsinet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Kirk Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com>
I'm just trying to plan ahead here.
What is the acceptable weight of fabric to use for covering . I'll
probably cover with Poly-Fiber and don't know if the light weight
P-106 fabic is fine for the wings.
My Piet surely won't hit the max 160 knots for the fabric or the 9
lbs/sqft. I figured more like 7.7lb/sqft.
Also, how much Poly-Brush, Poly-Spray, and Finish should it take to
cover the fabric for the whole plane?
Thanks
Kirk
>
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/23/00 9:04:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
catdesigns(at)juno.com writes:
<<
What have people done with the 1/2"x 3/16" spruce strips where they meet
the trailing edge stock? Mine stick up about 1/8" inch above the
trailing edge on the top and bottom. Do I sand the strips and taper them
down to being flush with the trailing edge stock or do I leave them full
thickness and have a bump in the fabric when I cover the tail? I can't
seem to tell on any of the pictures of finished Piet tails.
Thanks as all ways the help is much appreciated
>>
Chris, Blend them to meet the overall shape of the trailing edge. Doug
Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage cross struts |
In a message dated 10/24/00 10:40:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< Okay Gang,
This may seem like a dumb question. I'm building up my fuselage sides now,
and I was looking ahead to joining them together. Are the braces that run
between the fuselage halves really 1/2" x 1"? Those seem awful light. I
assume that you attach them with the 1" correspnding to the 1" longerons
instead of flat? I see it on the plans but I still have trouble believing
it.
>>
Gary,
Yes, they are 1/2 x 1 and attach as you have mentioned. Doug Bryant Wichita,
Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fabric weight |
leopowning(at)yahoo.com
In a message dated 10/24/00 3:12:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
kirkh@unique-software.com writes:
<< What is the acceptable weight of fabric to use for covering . I'll
probably cover with Poly-Fiber and don't know if the light weight
P-106 fabic is fine for the wings.
My Piet surely won't hit the max 160 knots for the fabric or the 9
lbs/sqft. I figured more like 7.7lb/sqft.
Also, how much Poly-Brush, Poly-Spray, and Finish should it take to
cover the fabric for the whole plane?
Thanks
Kirk
>>
Kirk,
My first aircamper is all 2.7 homebuilders dacron from Aircraft Spruce. The
second one, which I am building with Chuck Gantzer, is 2.7 on the wings and
fuse and 1.8 for the tail and ailerons. I believe the light (1.8) is good
for the entire aircraft, but the 2.7 is more rugged. Not sure how much Poly
brush/ tone material is needed, I used Blue River on the first aircraft and
oil based floor paint on the second.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
Gentlemen
I have just returned from the CAPA ( Canadian Aircraft Preservation
Association) annual general meeting. CAPA is now a coast to coast
organization representing Canada's Aviation Museums. A request from the
Canadian Aviation Museum ( formerly NAM ) was made known to me. CAVM is
looking for a Model A powered Pietenpol for display. Do you or anyone on the
list know of any that might be aquirred? I am sure the CAVM would provide
for a good home and proper care of such an aircraft.
If you know of one out there, in any condition, please contact myself
jmcnarry(at)techplus.com or Steve Payne at spayne(at)nmstc.ca
Thank you,
John McNarry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New radial engine |
| From: | Tony Weeks <tony_weeks(at)juno.com> |
But it's a flat head, for that power to weight ratio, you might as well
use a Model A Ford engine.
Tony
writes:
>
>
>Nice engine.... I noticed that there was no mention of price.
>I'm thinking that it might look pretty nice out in front of a Piet.
>Carl
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Leo
>Powning
>Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 12:22 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: New radial engine
>
>
>
>
>http://www.rotecradialengines.com/ has information on
>a new 7 cylinder radial.
>Leo
>
>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Powning <leopowning(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New radial engine |
Tony,
The Rotec radial is an overhead valve engine; you may
be thinking of the HCI radial which might be flat
head.
Leo
--- Tony Weeks wrote:
>
>
> But it's a flat head, for that power to weight
> ratio, you might as well
> use a Model A Ford engine.
>
> Tony
>
>
> writes:
> >
> >
> >Nice engine.... I noticed that there was no mention
> of price.
> >I'm thinking that it might look pretty nice out in
> front of a Piet.
> >Carl
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On
> Behalf Of Leo
> >Powning
> >Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 12:22 AM
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: New radial engine
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >http://www.rotecradialengines.com/ has information
> on
> >a new 7 cylinder radial.
> >Leo
> >
> >Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New radial engine |
| From: | Tony Weeks <tony_weeks(at)juno.com> |
writes:
>
>
>Tony,
>The Rotec radial is an overhead valve engine; you may
>be thinking of the HCI radial which might be flat
>head.
>Leo
That must be it.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Holland" <iholland(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric weight |
"Ian Holland"
Doug, would you care to share the information with the group on
your experience with the "oil based floor paint" as to
manufacturer, cost, whether you added anything to prevent it from
cracking? Any comments on UV inhibition?
Thanks,
-=Ian=-
(Getting close to covering)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New radial engine |
Someone has an idea of the price? Or if there is one
test flying?
Looks expensive, same hapens to the HCI, kind of out
of price for the power...
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Leo Powning wrote:
>
>
> Tony,
> The Rotec radial is an overhead valve engine; you
> may
> be thinking of the HCI radial which might be flat
> head.
> Leo
> --- Tony Weeks wrote:
> >
> >
> > But it's a flat head, for that power to weight
> > ratio, you might as well
> > use a Model A Ford engine.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
> > writes:
>
> > >
> > >
> > >Nice engine.... I noticed that there was no
> mention
> > of price.
> > >I'm thinking that it might look pretty nice out
> in
> > front of a Piet.
> > >Carl
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >
>
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On
> > Behalf Of Leo
> > >Powning
> > >Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 12:22 AM
> > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: New radial engine
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >http://www.rotecradialengines.com/ has
> information
> > on
> > >a new 7 cylinder radial.
> > >Leo
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's
> FREE.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Clean Air Store" <cleanair(at)linkny.com> |
| Subject: | Tail Of Fuselage |
"The Clean Air Store"
Email= mailto:pietenpoller(at)hotmail.com
A few days ago this was discussed, but I missed. I have my fuse complete
and ofcourse the tail end is 2" across, as I did nothing. Can some of you
with completed airframes let me know if this will present a problem down
thje road. I could se nothing from the drawings the suggested a problem that
I could not live with. I buildin the extended fuse and have a 0 time
Franklin 65 hp to hang on it.
Thanks
Ted, A Pietenpoller from PEO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Of Fuselage |
the main problem will be weight, by leaving it 2
inches it will be heavier, and then if you make the
rudder two inches wide to match it will be heavier. I
don't know what it will do to rudder effectivness. it
probably would be better to cut it apart and make it
right. let's see what the others say.
del
--- The Clean Air Store wrote:
> Store"
>
> Email= mailto:pietenpoller(at)hotmail.com
> A few days ago this was discussed, but I missed. I
> have my fuse complete
> and ofcourse the tail end is 2" across, as I did
> nothing. Can some of you
> with completed airframes let me know if this will
> present a problem down
> thje road. I could se nothing from the drawings the
> suggested a problem that
> I could not live with. I buildin the extended fuse
> and have a 0 time
> Franklin 65 hp to hang on it.
> Thanks
> Ted, A Pietenpoller from PEO.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
"The Clean Air Store"
| Subject: | Tail Of Fuselage |
Ted,,, My two cents is you could probably get away with the width,,,
countersink
the L brackets to align with the vert stab,,instead of making a two inch
wide stab and
rudder as Del had mentioned as you would pick up a lot of unwanted weight.
The only thing that would bother me is the strength you would lose when that
last 7 inches or so come together and are bonded with the glue. That really
seems to make the tail end a lot stronger. Couldn't you cut out the tail
post, taper the insides so it comes together right and replace the tailpost
back on?
In the long run you would probably save time up the road and feel better
with the
strength back there. Just a thought.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of The Clean
Air Store
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail Of Fuselage
Email= mailto:pietenpoller(at)hotmail.com
A few days ago this was discussed, but I missed. I have my fuse complete
and ofcourse the tail end is 2" across, as I did nothing. Can some of you
with completed airframes let me know if this will present a problem down
thje road. I could se nothing from the drawings the suggested a problem that
I could not live with. I buildin the extended fuse and have a 0 time
Franklin 65 hp to hang on it.
Thanks
Ted, A Pietenpoller from PEO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fabric weight |
leopowning(at)yahoo.com
I'm sorry I erased all the inquiries about using oil based polyurathane
paints as the fabric fill, UV, and color. It is from an article from Sept 97
Kitplanes. We used this method on the Gantzer/Bryant aircamper ('A'
powered). Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
While waiting for plans to arrive, I've been checking
over my limited basement space and tool inventory.
Therefore, in light of space requirements, what would
be the smallest band saw I should consider? (I
already have a drill press, table saw, compound miter
saw, grinder, and disk sander.)
Ed
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
"The Clean Air Store"
| Subject: | Re: Tail Of Fuselage |
Ted:
I definitly would NOT cut it apart and re-do it if it is already glued.
I've found that re-working a major part is a real pain - I had a fit of
impatience and put in the absolutely worst floorboard material
imagineable. -LUAN Spent a whole weekend grinding it out only to replace it
with good material.
How did you tie the two fuse sides together? Gussetts top and bottom?
You're probably ok. The surface area that is glued in a proper mitred joint
is relatively small. The fact that you have two sides pulled together,
positioned, but not glued together, probably can be offset with good
gussetting on the top and botton of the triangular junction of the sides.
Maybe even some extra gussetting on the verticals in each side or on the
"underside" of the horizontals that span from one fuse slab across to the
other side back at the last station.. Plywood is light. There IS a little
added weight you have (it's a matter of ounces). However, remember there
can be a significant negative moment to consider regarding the weight and
balance when you hang a few extra ounces out on a long moment arm. But lets
face it, these type planes are sometimes a bit heavy on the rear end anyway
(with tail wheels, heavy pilots, etc) and a little trim tab, wing
relocation, or horizontal stab adjustment goes a long way when rigging.
The extra width may not really be noticeable. Yeah... the rudder will be 1"
wide and the tailpost will be 2 inches wide. That means, if centered, each
side will stick out 1/2 inch further than the rudder. Carefully bevel each
side down a quarter and you now have a mere 1/4 sticking out beyond the edge
of the rudder. That part of the plane is about as hard to see as any, it's
below the horiz stab/elevator and on the ground, so really , most people
probably wouldnt even see it anyway.
Just my 2 cents...
Lets us know what you do.
Best, Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Clean Air Store" <cleanair(at)linkny.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail Of Fuselage
>
> Email= mailto:pietenpoller(at)hotmail.com
> A few days ago this was discussed, but I missed. I have my fuse complete
> and ofcourse the tail end is 2" across, as I did nothing. Can some of you
> with completed airframes let me know if this will present a problem down
> thje road. I could se nothing from the drawings the suggested a problem
that
> I could not live with. I buildin the extended fuse and have a 0 time
> Franklin 65 hp to hang on it.
> Thanks
> Ted, A Pietenpoller from PEO.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re:brakes/wheels |
Fellas:
I'm covering my fuse now so I need to finish up my landing gear and wheel/
brakes.
Heres the question.
I have a set of 8:00 x 4 cub wheels and tires. In order to put brakes on it
I will have to get the brake parts (everything) for a Cub. I'm afraid it
will be expensive to use this combo, and I understand that that type of old
brake system is not very good anyway.
I also have a set of 7:00 x 6 tires in fair shape.
My axles are 1 1/4" steel on split axles with bungee chords.
Should I ....
a) try to build up brakes with old CUB components.
or
b) spring for 6" wheel/brake assemblies and have all new stuff
I plan on using one brake cylinder and a hand operated lever. Dont plan on
having toe or heal brakes. Most flyng will be off of grass so only need
brakes for parking, runup, and panic purposes.
Thanks, Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | COZYPILOT(at)aol.com |
Some one once sent me a Dwg. file on the wing. My old computer crashed and
I lost it. Whoever sent me this could you please send it again?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Band saw size |
"walter evans"
I bought a 10" Delta @ Home Depot, and I'm almost through with my second
project. Couldn't have built them without it.
Great little tool that is worth every penny.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Band saw size
>
> While waiting for plans to arrive, I've been checking
> over my limited basement space and tool inventory.
> Therefore, in light of space requirements, what would
> be the smallest band saw I should consider? (I
> already have a drill press, table saw, compound miter
> saw, grinder, and disk sander.)
>
> Ed
>
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re:brakes/wheels |
Hello Bert
The cost of Cub parts will probably bring you to your knees. The old
bladders are not hard to find, but the cost is unreal. Clevelands would come
in at about the same price and they will be new.
Butttttt!!!! you had better be very very very careful with brakes that
really work good on a tail dragger, or own stock in a propeller shop.
Till sun n fun
Barry Davis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:brakes/wheels
>
> Fellas:
> I'm covering my fuse now so I need to finish up my landing gear and wheel/
> brakes.
> Heres the question.
>
> I have a set of 8:00 x 4 cub wheels and tires. In order to put brakes on
it
> I will have to get the brake parts (everything) for a Cub. I'm afraid it
> will be expensive to use this combo, and I understand that that type of
old
> brake system is not very good anyway.
>
> I also have a set of 7:00 x 6 tires in fair shape.
>
> My axles are 1 1/4" steel on split axles with bungee chords.
>
> Should I ....
>
> a) try to build up brakes with old CUB components.
>
> or
>
> b) spring for 6" wheel/brake assemblies and have all new stuff
>
> I plan on using one brake cylinder and a hand operated lever. Dont plan
on
> having toe or heal brakes. Most flyng will be off of grass so only need
> brakes for parking, runup, and panic purposes.
>
> Thanks, Bert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Band saw size |
| From: | John E Fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
>
> be the smallest band saw I should consider? (I
> already have a drill press, table saw, compound miter
> saw, grinder, and disk sander.)
>
> Ed
I have a Sears 10" band saw. It's worked fine for everything I needed.
John in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Band saw size |
In a message dated 10/25/00 4:49:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
artsfoto(at)yahoo.com writes:
<<
While waiting for plans to arrive, I've been checking
over my limited basement space and tool inventory.
Therefore, in light of space requirements, what would
be the smallest band saw I should consider? (I
already have a drill press, table saw, compound miter
saw, grinder, and disk sander.)
>>
I didn't have a band saw at all. I used a sabre saw and still prefer the
portability.
Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail Of Fuselage |
In a message dated 10/25/00 4:59:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
bconoly(at)surfsouth.com writes:
<< Ted:
I definitly would NOT cut it apart and re-do it if it is already glued.
I've found that re-working a major part is a real pain - I had a fit of
impatience and put in the absolutely worst floorboard material
imagineable. -LUAN Spent a whole weekend grinding it out only to replace it
with good material.
How did you tie the two fuse sides together? Gussetts top and bottom?
You're probably ok. The surface area that is glued in a proper mitred joint
is relatively small. The fact that you have two sides pulled together,
positioned, but not glued together, probably can be offset with good
gussetting on the top and botton of the triangular junction of the sides.
Maybe even some extra gussetting on the verticals in each side or on the
"underside" of the horizontals that span from one fuse slab across to the
other side back at the last station.. Plywood is light. There IS a little
added weight you have (it's a matter of ounces). However, remember there
can be a significant negative moment to consider regarding the weight and
balance when you hang a few extra ounces out on a long moment arm. But lets
face it, these type planes are sometimes a bit heavy on the rear end anyway
(with tail wheels, heavy pilots, etc) and a little trim tab, wing
relocation, or horizontal stab adjustment goes a long way when rigging.
The extra width may not really be noticeable. Yeah... the rudder will be 1"
wide and the tailpost will be 2 inches wide. That means, if centered, each
side will stick out 1/2 inch further than the rudder. Carefully bevel each
side down a quarter and you now have a mere 1/4 sticking out beyond the edge
of the rudder. That part of the plane is about as hard to see as any, it's
below the horiz stab/elevator and on the ground, so really , most people
probably wouldnt even see it anyway.
Just my 2 cents...
Lets us know what you do.
Best, Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Clean Air Store" <cleanair(at)linkny.com>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 11:59 AM
>>
Ted,
This is a tough one. I would humbly recommend disassembling the fuse as far
as needed to correct the situation. It really should be 1" total width when
complete. I had an experience similar to this on my second fuse. I some how
made the passenger's seat back (bulkhead) 5/16" too wide. I didn't catch it
on installation, but It didn't look right so I cut it out of the structure,
carefully chisled off the epoxy, made and installed a new one. Now that fuse
is in the Gantzer/ Bryant aircamper and is very close to engine runs and
ground work. I realize this task would be difficult.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:brakes/wheels |
In a message dated 10/25/00 5:49:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
bconoly(at)surfsouth.com writes:
Fellas:
I'm covering my fuse now so I need to finish up my landing gear and wheel/
brakes.
Heres the question.
I have a set of 8:00 x 4 cub wheels and tires. In order to put brakes on it
I will have to get the brake parts (everything) for a Cub. I'm afraid it
will be expensive to use this combo, and I understand that that type of old
brake system is not very good anyway.
I also have a set of 7:00 x 6 tires in fair shape.
My axles are 1 1/4" steel on split axles with bungee chords.
Should I ....
a) try to build up brakes with old CUB components.
or
b) spring for 6" wheel/brake assemblies and have all new stuff
I plan on using one brake cylinder and a hand operated lever. Dont plan on
having toe or heal brakes. Most flyng will be off of grass so only need
brakes for parking, runup, and panic purposes.
Thanks, Bert
_- >>
Bert,
Does your plane have a skid? If so, use the 8.00x4 and no brakes. My plane
has a skid and no brakes and it works very well. I'm so used to it now, I
would have a hard time with brakes. However, if you use brakes, the modern
brakes are very good, but heavy! Doug bryant Wichita, Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Band saw size |
I have a good hitachi sabre saw with variable speed. I
use a hollow ground blade in it and it cuts very good.
I think I would rather have that then a cheap band
saw.
but then I only use it for radius cuts. I know a lot
of people use them for cutting everything. but I like
the precision of my delta unisaw.
del
--- Edward Nolan wrote:
>
>
> While waiting for plans to arrive, I've been
> checking
> over my limited basement space and tool inventory.
> Therefore, in light of space requirements, what
> would
> be the smallest band saw I should consider? (I
> already have a drill press, table saw, compound
> miter
> saw, grinder, and disk sander.)
>
> Ed
>
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Band saw size |
Ed,
I bought a Sears 11" a few weeks ago, and it's been super handy. I also
use a hand jigsaw for some jobs because of it's portability, and ability to
cut pieces bigger than 11"!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re:brakes/wheels |
thanks Doug!
Nope.
Narry a skid to be found on mine. Got a big old honkin' tailwheel out there.
I guess I need to be able to land at hard runways anyway, soI guess I'll go
with brakes. I think I'll go ahead with some clevelands or something, what
the heck it's only credit :>)
If you guys know somebody who can use these 8 x 4's , have 'em call me. Or
I'll put em in the flea market at Sun N Fun. OOOOOOHHHHH. That's not far
away, is it!!!!
Life is good!
Best to all, Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: <Doug413(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:brakes/wheels
>
> In a message dated 10/25/00 5:49:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> bconoly(at)surfsouth.com writes:
>
>
> Fellas:
> I'm covering my fuse now so I need to finish up my landing gear and
wheel/
> brakes.
> Heres the question.
>
> I have a set of 8:00 x 4 cub wheels and tires. In order to put brakes on
it
> I will have to get the brake parts (everything) for a Cub. I'm afraid it
> will be expensive to use this combo, and I understand that that type of
old
> brake system is not very good anyway.
>
> I also have a set of 7:00 x 6 tires in fair shape.
>
> My axles are 1 1/4" steel on split axles with bungee chords.
>
> Should I ....
>
> a) try to build up brakes with old CUB components.
>
> or
>
> b) spring for 6" wheel/brake assemblies and have all new stuff
>
> I plan on using one brake cylinder and a hand operated lever. Dont plan
on
> having toe or heal brakes. Most flyng will be off of grass so only need
> brakes for parking, runup, and panic purposes.
>
> Thanks, Bert
>
>
> _- >>
> Bert,
>
> Does your plane have a skid? If so, use the 8.00x4 and no brakes. My
plane
> has a skid and no brakes and it works very well. I'm so used to it now, I
> would have a hard time with brakes. However, if you use brakes, the
modern
> brakes are very good, but heavy! Doug bryant Wichita, Ks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
The paint we used as a base coat on the entire plane, and finish coat on the
wing, is Rust-Oleum Oil Based Enamel, Aluminum color, pt # 7715. This paint
has a lot of aluminum iridescence in it, giving it it's color. It serves two
purposes: one is to eliminate UV rays, the other is to lock the fibers of the
fabric together. This paint serves both purposes very well. I made a couple
of test panels, about 2' X 2', one using the 1.8 oz material, the other with
2.7 oz material (homebuilders fabric, from AS&S), to get a feel for how much
paint should be applied, and how to apply it. I also put 2" reinforcing tape
on the test panels, using Poly-Tac. I found the aluminum paint would keep
forming little pinholes over the Poly-Tac, but the rest of the material would
saturate, and cover very well. I also found that if I had too much paint on
my brush, that it would saturate the material quickly, and run on the inside,
thus I could not brush out the runs. After the first coat, I held it up to
a light, and could not see any light coming thru, except for where the pin
holes were. The second coat of paint on the 2" strips took care of the pin
holes. I then cut a section out of the test panel, wrinkled it up, flattened
it out, and the paint would not come off. It did, however, leave a little
bit of aluminum color on my fingers. When I was prepared to paint the wing,
I initially applied paint only on the poly-tac, for the first coat. I used a
4" fine bristle brush. For the first coat on the entire wing, I dipped it in
the can, no more than 1/4" or so. This took a lot of time, but I was able to
avoid runs on the inside of the wing. The second and third coat went on much
quicker, because I didn't have to worry about runs on the inside of the wing.
After fine sanding the aluminum paint, we used 'Red Devil' Polyurethane, Oil
Base Enamel, (Chinese Red, pt # 1207) on the fuselage, and trim paint on the
wing. It worked out really well, looks great.
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Powning <leopowning(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Band saw size |
A bandsaw would be nice to have if you're cashed up
but certainly not a necessity. I've built a Minimax
and Jodel D18 without one. A hand jigsaw is all you
need for heavy ply. I use a light modellers jigsaw to
make thin gussets.
Leo
>
-----------------------------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 7:47 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Band saw size
>
>
>
> >
> > While waiting for plans to arrive, I've been
> checking
> > over my limited basement space and tool inventory.
> > Therefore, in light of space requirements, what
> would
> > be the smallest band saw I should consider? (I
> > already have a drill press, table saw, compound
> miter
> > saw, grinder, and disk sander.)
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's
> FREE.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
"'Leo Powning'"
If your just doing 1/16" gussets, I suggest just using a sharp utility
knife. I did mine this way and there is no waste, and it goes very fast. I
was doing this last night for Tailwind gussets. Just score and break it
apart. I have a band saw, but don't remember using it much at all.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Leo
Powning
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Band saw size
A bandsaw would be nice to have if you're cashed up
but certainly not a necessity. I've built a Minimax
and Jodel D18 without one. A hand jigsaw is all you
need for heavy ply. I use a light modellers jigsaw to
make thin gussets.
Leo
>
-----------------------------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 7:47 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Band saw size
>
>
>
> >
> > While waiting for plans to arrive, I've been
> checking
> > over my limited basement space and tool inventory.
> > Therefore, in light of space requirements, what
> would
> > be the smallest band saw I should consider? (I
> > already have a drill press, table saw, compound
> miter
> > saw, grinder, and disk sander.)
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's
> FREE.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re:brakes/wheels |
On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 Doug413(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/25/00 5:49:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> bconoly(at)surfsouth.com writes:
>
>
> Fellas:
> I'm covering my fuse now so I need to finish up my landing gear and wheel/
> brakes.
> Heres the question.
>
> I have a set of 8:00 x 4 cub wheels and tires. In order to put brakes on it
> I will have to get the brake parts (everything) for a Cub. I'm afraid it
> will be expensive to use this combo, and I understand that that type of old
> brake system is not very good anyway.
>
> I also have a set of 7:00 x 6 tires in fair shape.
>
> My axles are 1 1/4" steel on split axles with bungee chords.
>
> Should I ....
>
> a) try to build up brakes with old CUB components.
>
> or
>
> b) spring for 6" wheel/brake assemblies and have all new stuff
>
> I plan on using one brake cylinder and a hand operated lever. Dont plan on
> having toe or heal brakes. Most flyng will be off of grass so only need
> brakes for parking, runup, and panic purposes.
>
> Thanks, Bert
>
>
> _- >>
> Bert,
>
> Does your plane have a skid? If so, use the 8.00x4 and no brakes. My plane
> has a skid and no brakes and it works very well. I'm so used to it now, I
> would have a hard time with brakes. However, if you use brakes, the modern
> brakes are very good, but heavy! Doug bryant Wichita, Ks
>
>
Heavy?!? I guess it's all relative, but the calipers and actuators on my
Cleavlands weigh about 3 lbs and the disks about 3-4 lbs each for a total
of about 9-11 lbs.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Band saw size |
"Greg Cardinal"
I purchased a variable speed, portable bandsaw and built a benchtop stand for it.
It has been very useful and seldom has its small size been a problem. For cutting
larger pieces of steel I use a 4 1/2" angle grinder with a thin cut-off
wheel.
Greg Cardinal
>>> Edward Nolan 10/25 5:47 PM >>>
While waiting for plans to arrive, I've been checking
over my limited basement space and tool inventory.
Therefore, in light of space requirements, what would
be the smallest band saw I should consider? (I
already have a drill press, table saw, compound miter
saw, grinder, and disk sander.)
Ed
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
11:04:59 AM
A big old guillotine style paper cutter works great for 1/16th ply.
Like your knife method, no waste.
Mike
Steve Eldredge
Sent by: To: "'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'"
,
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat "'Leo Powning'"
ronics.com cc:
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List:
Band saw size
10/26/2000 10:26 AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list; Please respond
to Steve Eldredge
If your just doing 1/16" gussets, I suggest just using a sharp utility
knife. I did mine this way and there is no waste, and it goes very
fast. I
was doing this last night for Tailwind gussets. Just score and break
it
apart. I have a band saw, but don't remember using it much at all.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Leo
Powning
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Band saw size
A bandsaw would be nice to have if you're cashed up
but certainly not a necessity. I've built a Minimax
and Jodel D18 without one. A hand jigsaw is all you
need for heavy ply. I use a light modellers jigsaw to
make thin gussets.
Leo
>
-----------------------------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 7:47 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Band saw size
>
>
>
> >
> > While waiting for plans to arrive, I've been
> checking
> > over my limited basement space and tool inventory.
> > Therefore, in light of space requirements, what
> would
> > be the smallest band saw I should consider? (I
> > already have a drill press, table saw, compound
> miter
> > saw, grinder, and disk sander.)
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's
> FREE.
> >
> >
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Steve Eldredge
I've used the same method on ply up to 3/32" thick. It works great.
On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Steve Eldredge wrote:
>
> If your just doing 1/16" gussets, I suggest just using a sharp utility
> knife. I did mine this way and there is no waste, and it goes very fast. I
> was doing this last night for Tailwind gussets. Just score and break it
> apart. I have a band saw, but don't remember using it much at all.
>
> Steve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Leo
> Powning
> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 6:17 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Band saw size
>
>
>
> A bandsaw would be nice to have if you're cashed up
> but certainly not a necessity. I've built a Minimax
> and Jodel D18 without one. A hand jigsaw is all you
> need for heavy ply. I use a light modellers jigsaw to
> make thin gussets.
> Leo
> >
> -----------------------------------------------------
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 7:47 PM
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Band saw size
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > While waiting for plans to arrive, I've been
> > checking
> > > over my limited basement space and tool inventory.
> > > Therefore, in light of space requirements, what
> > would
> > > be the smallest band saw I should consider? (I
> > > already have a drill press, table saw, compound
> > miter
> > > saw, grinder, and disk sander.)
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's
> > FREE.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Powning <leopowning(at)yahoo.com> |
I laid 1/16" and 3/32" sheets of ply on a table and
cut out turtle deck, leading edge ply, and cap strips
for the Jodel with a Stanley (utility) knife and a 36"
steel rule for a straight edge. Did an excellent job
but I've got scars to remind me to keep fingers out of
the way :)
Leo
--- Steve Eldredge wrote:
> If your just doing 1/16" gussets, I suggest just
> using a sharp utility
> knife. I did mine this way and there is no waste,
> and it goes very fast. I
> was doing this last night for Tailwind gussets.
> Just score and break it
> apart. I have a band saw, but don't remember using
> it much at all.
>
> Steve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On
> Behalf Of Leo
> Powning
> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 6:17 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Band saw size
>
>
>
>
> A bandsaw would be nice to have if you're cashed up
> but certainly not a necessity. I've built a Minimax
> and Jodel D18 without one. A hand jigsaw is all you
> need for heavy ply. I use a light modellers jigsaw
> to
> make thin gussets.
> Leo
> >
>
-----------------------------------------------------
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 7:47 PM
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Band saw size
> >
> >
> Nolan
> >
> > >
> > > While waiting for plans to arrive, I've been
> > checking
> > > over my limited basement space and tool
> inventory.
> > > Therefore, in light of space requirements, what
> > would
> > > be the smallest band saw I should consider? (I
> > > already have a drill press, table saw, compound
> > miter
> > > saw, grinder, and disk sander.)
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's
> > FREE.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Holland" <iholland(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Based Paint |
"Ian Holland"
Thanks for the responses.
-=Ian=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)famvid.com> |
| Subject: | Piet photo in Sport Aviation magazine |
Steve Buss, EAA's Young Eagle Program Director, writes a note concerning
the Young Eagle program on page 14 of the October 2000 Sport Aviation
magazine. Looking about for a colorful photo to draw attention to the
article, he found one of Bill Rewey, our old friend from Verona WI showing
two people in his Piet. Actually, Steve (who recently got married) knows
Bill from the Brodhead flyins. We are all members of the Midwest Antique
Airplane Club (MAAC) and have a "grassroots flyin" at Brodhead each
year. That's in addition to the Piet flyin.
Bill, who has flown his Piet from Wisconsin to Sun'N'Fun several times, is
always ready to help with a seminar or to introduce new people to Pietdom,
is the goggled fellow in the back seat.
Congratulations, Bill!
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William C. Beerman" <wcb(at)pliantsystems.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Band saw size |
"William C. Beerman"
Hmmmmm......
When the question was originally posed, I assumed that the bandsaw
was meant to be used for cutting steel, but most everyone's referring
to woodcutting applications.
I paid $175.00 for an imported metal cutting bandsaw from Harbor
Freight. Quality is limited, but I couldn't imagine a much easier way of
cutting those long strips of .090" 4130 for controls and hinges
than just clamping a rip fence down to the table and cutting
away. Sure, hacksaws or jigsaws would work, but I think it would
be tedious and hard to get a nice straight cut....
Leo Powning wrote:
>
>
> I laid 1/16" and 3/32" sheets of ply on a table and
> cut out turtle deck, leading edge ply, and cap strips
> for the Jodel with a Stanley (utility) knife and a 36"
> steel rule for a straight edge. Did an excellent job
> but I've got scars to remind me to keep fingers out of
> the way :)
> Leo
>
> --- Steve Eldredge wrote:
> > If your just doing 1/16" gussets, I suggest just
> > using a sharp utility
> > knife. I did mine this way and there is no waste,
> > and it goes very fast. I
> > was doing this last night for Tailwind gussets.
> > Just score and break it
> > apart. I have a band saw, but don't remember using
> > it much at all.
> >
> > Steve E.
> >
-----------------------
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 7:47 PM
> > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Band saw size
> > >
> > >
> > Nolan
> > >
> > > >
> > > > While waiting for plans to arrive, I've been
> > > checking
> > > > over my limited basement space and tool
> > inventory.
> > > > Therefore, in light of space requirements, what
> > > would
> > > > be the smallest band saw I should consider? (I
> > > > already have a drill press, table saw, compound
> > > miter
> > > > saw, grinder, and disk sander.)
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > >
> >
>
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
>
--
William C. Beerman, Principal Engineer
Pliant Systems Inc.
4024 Stirrup Creek Drive, Durham, NC, 27703
919-405-4862 fax: 919-544-5356
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R DeCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet photo in Sport Aviation magazine |
I cant get that mag around here... can anyone provide a scan of that pic for
aircamper.org?
Cheers,
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Mosher" <docshop(at)famvid.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet photo in Sport Aviation magazine
>
> Steve Buss, EAA's Young Eagle Program Director, writes a note concerning
> the Young Eagle program on page 14 of the October 2000 Sport Aviation
> magazine. Looking about for a colorful photo to draw attention to the
> article, he found one of Bill Rewey, our old friend from Verona WI
showing
> two people in his Piet. Actually, Steve (who recently got married) knows
> Bill from the Brodhead flyins. We are all members of the Midwest Antique
> Airplane Club (MAAC) and have a "grassroots flyin" at Brodhead each
> year. That's in addition to the Piet flyin.
>
> Bill, who has flown his Piet from Wisconsin to Sun'N'Fun several times, is
> always ready to help with a seminar or to introduce new people to Pietdom,
> is the goggled fellow in the back seat.
>
> Congratulations, Bill!
>
> Doc Mosher
> Oshkosh USA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | shop tools, in general |
Michael D Cuy
For doing the metal fittings Tony Bingelis says a band
saw with a metal cutting blade works well if it's geared or
re-pulley'ied to a certain speed.
Luckily we have one in the shop here at work where you
could adjust the speed. Worked good.
I never did use the bandsaw for wood though, just a sabre
saw when needed. What I found was really handy was
making a router table. That wasn't the good part though....
but it was the $20 speed controller I bought at a woodworking
store. With that router slowed down to any speed you want
you can buy a set of drum sanders of various sizes and boy
does that do nice edge sanding work on not only some of your
rounded wood parts but metal fitting finishing too.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage cross struts |
Gary,
You're right in that the 1' braces matches with the longerons. We cut
all ours per the plans and it is really stout. One thing you will see
when you come is that our rudder control cables run through on of the up
rights on each side. Someone else had this problem before and I wrote a
long article to Grant MacLaren which was to be printed in the last
newsletter that was never published. I sent pictures and everything. I
really don't have any explination for this, but our airplane was started
by someone else thirty yeras ago -- it's history is really just rumors
but we did find a date of 8-16-67 on one of the side stringers. We tore
the thing completely apart and started over again because the glue the
original builder used wasn't holding and the plywood was splitting and
delaminating. Anyway, this origianal fusleage had holes drilled through
the upright for the cable. There was no tail when we got the project,
but when we made our tail and ran some string through to check the cable
run it ran right through the upright. We've naturally added some
doublers in this area and the entry and the exit to the hole is protected
with a fairly thick piece od phenolic.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Chris,
We made our trailing edge to fit the aft end of the ribs. We used a
long piece of spruce which we cut off the spar when we trimmed it to size
(we're building a one piece wing). We also cut a groove full length of
the trailing edge and cut a like groove in the back of each rib. We have
glued a plywood bisquit cut from scrap into the ribs which will serve to
mount the trailing edge onto.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Morton" <smorton3(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | New radial engine |
The price is $9875.00 USD plus shipping. They are testing one on a Storch
replica. They have 2 available at the end of February 2001.----Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
Gower
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New radial engine
Someone has an idea of the price? Or if there is one
test flying?
Looks expensive, same hapens to the HCI, kind of out
of price for the power...
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Leo Powning wrote:
>
>
> Tony,
> The Rotec radial is an overhead valve engine; you
> may
> be thinking of the HCI radial which might be flat
> head.
> Leo
> --- Tony Weeks wrote:
> >
> >
> > But it's a flat head, for that power to weight
> > ratio, you might as well
> > use a Model A Ford engine.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
> > writes:
>
> > >
> > >
> > >Nice engine.... I noticed that there was no
> mention
> > of price.
> > >I'm thinking that it might look pretty nice out
> in
> > front of a Piet.
> > >Carl
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >
>
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On
> > Behalf Of Leo
> > >Powning
> > >Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 12:22 AM
> > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: New radial engine
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >http://www.rotecradialengines.com/ has
> information
> > on
> > >a new 7 cylinder radial.
> > >Leo
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's
> FREE.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
Forgot about the paper cutter. I cut the 1/16 stuff in long strips with a
razor knife and straight edge (easy) and then used the paper cutter to cut
them into the smaller pieces. Worked really nice. I have a bandsaw and use
it for cutting the bigger gussetts and for all the tail parts. Even the
long parts can be cut off at an angle and then given a final cut. I even
plan on slowing the bandsaw down, installing a metal cutting blade and
cutting out some of the metal parts with it. What I found extremely useful
is a disc sander. It makes fast work on tapering parts or small adjustments
on gussett angles.
Joe
>From: "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com>
>A big old guillotine style paper cutter works great for 1/16th ply.
>Like your knife method, no waste.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:brakes/wheels |
Barry,
You're right about how sensitive the brakes need to be. I should have
mentioned this in tha last message I wrote.
We're going to use toe brakes and install them like Vi Kapler did in his
article in the old newsletter. I was able to get a set of old Paramount
master cylinders from an old Mooney and will use these. They are very
small and light, but I know when we get that far that I'm going to have
to play with the leverage on the toe brake pedals to get get pressure off
the brakes. We also were sure to mount the brake pedals far enough
forward that we can't accidently hit them but have to make a positive and
definate action to touch the pedals. The old plane had weak brakes for a
real good reason and one of the things I was taught when learning to fly
back in the early sixties was to be sure my heels were on the floor and
off the brakes during final approach. I've never forgotten that.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:brakes/wheels |
Bert,
Our project came with Cub wheels and brakes as well as the landing gear
vees which we didn't use. I bought a set of 6:00 X 6 wheels and
Cleveland brakes from a salvage yard because these are a whole lot
cheaper to maintain. I've already gotten a couple of used tires and
tubes to put on the wheels.
The expander tube brakes did work fairly well, but they were weak on a
Cub -- I'm sure they were designed that way. All of these old planes of
that type had brakes that could not hold the plane for a full power run
up, they were good for a mag check only. However, expander tube brakes
were used in larger airplanes like the Curtis C-46 and they worked quite
well.
Expander tube brakes are outdated now and although they will work quite
well in a Piet, their cost has gone out of sight. Same goes for the 8:00
X 4 tires. You can probably pick up a good set of used 6:00 X 6 tires
for nothing from your local FBO and he'll probably be glad to be rid of
them. I always was.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:brakes/wheels |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
03:37:17 PM
Attached are some "Brake" comments from the archives. What I was
looking for was a description of some "go cart" brakes that were used
on a Piet. I think I saw it at Brodhead last year. I didn't find it.
I have some good pix of different brake set ups and if I can get them
scanned anytime soon I'll post them to aircamper.org.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
************************************************************************************************************
From the Archives
************************************************************************************************************
Ian Holland wrote:
Getting down to the point of having to make a decision on what feet to
install on the bird. So far, it will be metal, with brakes. However,
when I look at the traditional cost of applying 6" wheels and
cleveland
brakes, I
come up with a cost of about $650.00. Has anyone got a source of
alternate
materials that is not so pricey? (And that will hold up)? The plans
call
for a one inch stub axle, but most of the purchased wheels are 3/4" or
5/8
". I am starting to get confused again, so I thought I would see what
the
group is using as alternates.
Any comments?
Thanks, and Happy New Year!
-=Ian=-
I used Matco 6" wheels and hydraulic brakes. They manufacture for
homebuilts and I really like the quality. They are much like
clevelands, but cheaper. Not sure what prices are now. Check them
out
at WWW.MATCOMFG.COM. I used the W62 model. with the 3/4" axles. You
have to choose before welding the gear to match the axles. Duane
Woolsey used the 8" azuza (?) wheel on his plane with the manual
brakes
and a 5/8" axle. Functional, but not really suitable for non hard
surface runways. check my web site for a pic of his wheels. (and mine)
The long and short is.... Unless you build up your own wheels a la
motocycle derivitive, this will be one of the larger one-time outlays
of
cash. I guess you could also scrounge for used cessna/piper/etc sets
as
well. I saw main gear for a cessna find a home on a Christavia MK 4
for
about $400. (catch that Ken?)
Stevee
From: "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Wire Spoked Wheels
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 07:15:00 -0800
Dear Mike:
My Honda Trail 90 wheel with 9 guage stainless steel spokes and
Dunlop F17-100/90 tire & tube, with mechanical brakes & axel, weighs
17.5
pounds and is 24 5/8" tall by 3 3/4" wide.
michael list wrote:
> To all you tall spokes folks out there, I salute you! Can any of
you
> tell us how much your wire spoked wheels weigh, with or without
tires
> and brakes? Thanks.
> Mike List
>I am curious about your brake system. I took pictures and thought it
very clever. What kind of 'feel' do you get with the strangely bent
arms
at the brake? Is it soft during the first 1/4" pedal travel, slightly
stiffer for
>the second 1/4" travel & then brick wall the last 1/4"? Is the
braking
effort similar to pedal feel or does it take more force in the last
1/4"?
8080,8080,8080
I took the lazy way out to route
my
cables to those oddly bent
actuation lever arms and I had slack in the cables that shouldn't have
been there....but the big trip was upon me so I skipped that work
until
later. The brakes don't do much till the last part of the travel
because
of the slack cables, but when they get there they work fine.
On grass I only use them for run-up but on all the paved strips I
landed at on the trip I used them alot. They are racing go-cart
mechanical
disc brakes by I think Comet. Probably on the net somewhere.
Found mine at a lawn mower shop. About 38 $ a side. The heel
brakes are just like you'd find on an Aeronca Champ but not cast
alum. just 4130 steel welded up versions. No complaints- they work
fine as is but could be improved upon as you could see without too
much work. The angle I'm pulling on the lever is certainly not as
effective as it could be but I love to drive the mechanical engineers
into fits with this kind of setup ! :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Band saw size |
Another way, and SOMETIMES easier way is a side grinder. I cut most of the
metal for the Christavia with it....and there is a lot of metal to be
cut. I have a cheap, $75, 4", B&D side grinder and use either 1/8" or
3/32" wheel. The thinner wheel will cut the metal faster (less metal to
turn to dust) but tends to wear out quicker. Also, be sure to use a METAL
wheel (masonary ones don't cut half as well ;-).
The problems with it is the mess it makes. A fine dust of metal and the
material from the wheel will cover everything in a 50' radius. If you do
it outside, you have the neighbors to contend with due to the loud noise.
Also, cutting curves, especially insude curves, is limited and generates a
lot of waste material. However, I still prefer it to the bandsaw for most
of the cutting as my bandsaw is not properly set up for metal.
On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, William C. Beerman wrote:
>
> Hmmmmm......
>
> When the question was originally posed, I assumed that the bandsaw
> was meant to be used for cutting steel, but most everyone's referring
> to woodcutting applications.
>
> I paid $175.00 for an imported metal cutting bandsaw from Harbor
> Freight. Quality is limited, but I couldn't imagine a much easier way of
> cutting those long strips of .090" 4130 for controls and hinges
> than just clamping a rip fence down to the table and cutting
> away. Sure, hacksaws or jigsaws would work, but I think it would
> be tedious and hard to get a nice straight cut....
>
> Leo Powning wrote:
> >
> >
> > I laid 1/16" and 3/32" sheets of ply on a table and
> > cut out turtle deck, leading edge ply, and cap strips
> > for the Jodel with a Stanley (utility) knife and a 36"
> > steel rule for a straight edge. Did an excellent job
> > but I've got scars to remind me to keep fingers out of
> > the way :)
> > Leo
> >
> > --- Steve Eldredge wrote:
> > > If your just doing 1/16" gussets, I suggest just
> > > using a sharp utility
> > > knife. I did mine this way and there is no waste,
> > > and it goes very fast. I
> > > was doing this last night for Tailwind gussets.
> > > Just score and break it
> > > apart. I have a band saw, but don't remember using
> > > it much at all.
> > >
> > > Steve E.
> > >
> -----------------------
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com>
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 7:47 PM
> > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Band saw size
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Nolan
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > While waiting for plans to arrive, I've been
> > > > checking
> > > > > over my limited basement space and tool
> > > inventory.
> > > > > Therefore, in light of space requirements, what
> > > > would
> > > > > be the smallest band saw I should consider? (I
> > > > > already have a drill press, table saw, compound
> > > > miter
> > > > > saw, grinder, and disk sander.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Ed
> > > > >
>
> > >
> >
> > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
> >
>
> --
> William C. Beerman, Principal Engineer
> Pliant Systems Inc.
> 4024 Stirrup Creek Drive, Durham, NC, 27703
> 919-405-4862 fax: 919-544-5356
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TXTdragger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Piet photo in Sport Aviation magazine |
In a message dated 10/26/2000 11:05:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
docshop(at)famvid.com writes:
<< Bill, who has flown his Piet from Wisconsin to Sun'N'Fun several times >>
I'm sure this is guy we met @S&F couple years ago ... what a great character
... with his $4 GPS (chart cut in strips & on 2 rollers) & makeup mirror to
check fuel level. Love the way he tells storys, man after my own heart ...
what a flair for BSing. Our 30 mins with him was one of the trips highlights
.... If you see him, tell him that 2 Texans are still telling his tales & now
we have a name to put with them.
AIN'T THIS FLYING STUFF GREAT........................
John D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re:brakes/wheels |
On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Mike Bell wrote:
> well. I saw main gear for a cessna find a home on a Christavia MK 4
> for
> about $400. (catch that Ken?)
>
> Stevee
Now here's an interesting turn of events. I have a tailwheel from a Piet
on my Christavia.....Thanks SteveE
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | cutting 4130 with a cutoff wheel |
"walter evans"
There was a pretty in depth discussion awhile back about cutting 4130 with a
cutoff wheel. You have to be really careful , that if the cut edges get
real hot , the quick heat and quick cooling by the nearby steel, makes for
brittleness. you can't see it but at some time it will crack.
I think that if the piece is going to be welded later , it doesn't matter,
it will be normalized in the welding process. But if not, I think the
oldtimers test the area with a small file. If you can drag the file over
the edge and it bites and cuts, its ok. But if it skips over it, its no
good and must be normalized.
Check the old posts, some guys had some really good scientific data on
this subject.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Brake's, axels, wheels |
leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
In issue 33, 3rd qtr. 1991 a man named Bill Liimatainen wrote an article
showing his light weight landing gear. He used alum. atv wheels with his
own machined hubs axel and Matco brakes. I am going this rout but using
the Hegar external disc kit I got from ACS. He claims 17.6 lbs per side
(vee, axel,hub,wheel, tire,bearings) I have all the pieces but am just
starting on gear now. I think he is about right. Major draw back is
cost. $400 for hub kit. But I'm after weight savings and you pay for
what you get. Leading Edge Airfoils has neet skinned tires for that
Good Year Airwheel lookof the 30's Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Band saw size |
I used a cheap B&D bandsaw with a wood blade for all of my wood so far. I
also took a cheap B&D circular saw, mounted it upside down on a small table,
and put a metal "cutoff" blade on it. Works just like a table saw. Must use
eye and ear protection and creates quite a light show with the sparks.
Eventually the metal dust will trash the bearing in the saw and you will
have to throw it away. So get a cheap one from apawn shop or yard sale.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Beanlands" <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Band saw size
>
> Another way, and SOMETIMES easier way is a side grinder. I cut most of the
> metal for the Christavia with it....and there is a lot of metal to be
> cut. I have a cheap, $75, 4", B&D side grinder and use either 1/8" or
> 3/32" wheel. The thinner wheel will cut the metal faster (less metal to
> turn to dust) but tends to wear out quicker. Also, be sure to use a METAL
> wheel (masonary ones don't cut half as well ;-).
>
> The problems with it is the mess it makes. A fine dust of metal and the
> material from the wheel will cover everything in a 50' radius. If you do
> it outside, you have the neighbors to contend with due to the loud noise.
>
> Also, cutting curves, especially insude curves, is limited and generates a
> lot of waste material. However, I still prefer it to the bandsaw for most
> of the cutting as my bandsaw is not properly set up for metal.
>
>
> On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, William C. Beerman wrote:
>
> >
> > Hmmmmm......
> >
> > When the question was originally posed, I assumed that the bandsaw
> > was meant to be used for cutting steel, but most everyone's referring
> > to woodcutting applications.
> >
> > I paid $175.00 for an imported metal cutting bandsaw from Harbor
> > Freight. Quality is limited, but I couldn't imagine a much easier way of
> > cutting those long strips of .090" 4130 for controls and hinges
> > than just clamping a rip fence down to the table and cutting
> > away. Sure, hacksaws or jigsaws would work, but I think it would
> > be tedious and hard to get a nice straight cut....
> >
> > Leo Powning wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I laid 1/16" and 3/32" sheets of ply on a table and
> > > cut out turtle deck, leading edge ply, and cap strips
> > > for the Jodel with a Stanley (utility) knife and a 36"
> > > steel rule for a straight edge. Did an excellent job
> > > but I've got scars to remind me to keep fingers out of
> > > the way :)
> > > Leo
> > >
> > > --- Steve Eldredge wrote:
> > > > If your just doing 1/16" gussets, I suggest just
> > > > using a sharp utility
> > > > knife. I did mine this way and there is no waste,
> > > > and it goes very fast. I
> > > > was doing this last night for Tailwind gussets.
> > > > Just score and break it
> > > > apart. I have a band saw, but don't remember using
> > > > it much at all.
> > > >
> > > > Steve E.
> > > >
> > -----------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 7:47 PM
> > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Band saw size
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Nolan
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While waiting for plans to arrive, I've been
> > > > > checking
> > > > > > over my limited basement space and tool
> > > > inventory.
> > > > > > Therefore, in light of space requirements, what
> > > > > would
> > > > > > be the smallest band saw I should consider? (I
> > > > > > already have a drill press, table saw, compound
> > > > > miter
> > > > > > saw, grinder, and disk sander.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ed
> > > > > >
> >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
> > >
> >
> > --
> > William C. Beerman, Principal Engineer
> > Pliant Systems Inc.
> > 4024 Stirrup Creek Drive, Durham, NC, 27703
> > 919-405-4862 fax: 919-544-5356
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Wilcox" <CraigWilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
"Jeffrey Wilcox"
I've been reading through the archieves and finding reams of information
(literally, as my cut and paste amounts to about 150 pages). Many thanks to
all for the information.
As an old 7AC and Taylor Titch pilot, I've been wondering about G loads on
the Piet. While I have no intention of entering an aerobatic competition in
a Piet, or the Reno air races, I am prone to the occaisional loop, aileron
or barrel roll. Now, the 7AC was a tube frame, 6G airplane, and the Titch
was +/- 9.9 G. Never got over 3.8 in either. I did several airshows in a
1-23 sailplane, never pulled more than 3G in it. Question is, how many of
you Piet flyers have flown a loop or roll? The loop is usually good for
about 3G on entry/exit, and (done right) either an aileron or barrel roll is
just a tad over 1G.
Looking at my beautiful set of plans, the Piet seems to be good for about
+6G/-3G - it is certainly a stout rascal with beautiful lines. Has anyone
done the computations and/or tried the manuevers?
Not much mention in the past months about the Impoverished Homebuilders
Assoc., or CHEAPEX - how are they doing? I definitely fit into the
category!!!
Regards and TIA - Craigo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Band saw size |
In a message dated 10/26/00 4:25:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
bconoly(at)surfsouth.com writes:
<<
I used a cheap B&D bandsaw with a wood blade for all of my wood so far. I
also took a cheap B&D circular saw, mounted it upside down on a small table,
and put a metal "cutoff" blade on it. Works just like a table saw. Must use
eye and ear protection and creates quite a light show with the sparks.
Eventually the metal dust will trash the bearing in the saw and you will
have to throw it away. So get a cheap one from apawn shop or yard sale.
>>
I have most of the steel parts sheared to generic size and then drill,
radius, finish. The engine mount plates are sheared to an overall rectangle.
Then stack the quantity together, weld two opposite unused corners, layout
and drill the holes including holes for radii internal to the part, make all
straight cuts, grind off the welded corners, and have quantity of matching
parts. I' have made 3 1/2 ship sets of steel parts this way. Maybe this
could be of use to someone. Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: G Loads, Others |
Hey Jeff,
I'm concerned about high speed taxi test (if you can call piet performance
high speed) and you are about G's. You might be the one I'm looking for to
test fly my bird when it is completed.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Based Paint : Correction |
Correction:
I used Poly-Brush, not Poly-Tac, to apply the reinforcing tape, as
recommended in the stitts method. (Oops!!)
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pete Smith" <psmith(at)tein.net> |
My plans have been ordered but a few questions can't wait. What is the glue
of choice? Where do you solo the Air Camper from and how does it perform
with an Cont. A65 with a 72/44. Are Champ style heel brakes workable into
the design? Will a small Scott tailwheel be adaptable?
Thanks
Pete Smith
Lewistown, MT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TED BROWN" <CLEANAIR(at)linkny.com> |
> > Thanks to all on tail post feedback. Here's another one. I am ready to
> > start on land gear vees. Plans call for a 65* angle. I saw a Piet at
> > Oshkosh, NX17WR. The front legs where closer to vertical than the plans
> > call for, more like the Pipers. It seems to me this would help prevent
a
> > tendency to nose over. The Cubs are almost Straight up and down on the
> > front legs of the VEE. Has anybody else made this change or planned
it??
> > By the way had the Franklin going today and put 20 mins on it 2 times,
now
> > it has about 3 hours of break in.
> > Ted, A Pietenpoller from PEO.
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
--- Pete Smith wrote:
>
>
> My plans have been ordered but a few questions can't
> wait. What is the glue
> of choice?
look back for the archives on glue. I believe the
majority says T88, I like it.
Where do you solo the Air Camper from?
the back seat
> how does it perform with an Cont. A65 with a 72/44.
excellant. a well used engine in the piet.
Are Champ style wheel brakes workable into
> the design?
anything is since the original didn't have brakes.
Will a small Scott tailwheel be adaptable?
absolutely.
>
> Thanks
>
> Pete Smith
> Lewistown, MT
>
your welcome
del
wisconsin
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | More on Steel fitting work....... |
Michael D Cuy
For you guys out there fabricating your steel fittings, give this
idea a try. Most every flat piece of 4130 you need to cut for your
Piet are either .060 or .090" thick. (approx.) To buy your 4130 from
the catalogs in the appropriate width costs more...and to cut those
'strap' widths at home from sheet stock is time-consuming work.
Try using sheet stock 4130 but take it to a local metal fab shop that
has shears capable of cutting .060 and .090 stock. (yes, they are
beefy shears) Call around first to see who can handle the thicknesses
and then have them crank out a bunch of the different widths you'll need
for various fittings. (ps- remember to make your cuts with the printing
or parallel to the printing on the sheets to keep the grain the right way
for bends......again, from Tony B. books.)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re:brakes/wheels |
I'd kind of like to have the 8x4s if someone else has not spoken for them and
the price is right. I will be down your way (I am from Thomasville) in a couple
of weeks. I may have some wheels/brakes you may be able to use. Let's talk.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
I have reached a point in construction where I feel like I've run off the
page of instructions. Naamely the center section. The plans ( supplemental
sheet for 3 pc wing and color photos ) show 3/8 compression struts (2)
against lower edge of spars with instructions to cut the lower edge to the
same curve as the lower edge of the rib. Question: Is this strut to be
installed with the lower edge adjacent to the ribs so the plywood compartment
floor will attach or should this be above somewhat and the lower section be
covered with fabric? One of the 4 photos show a view from above and it
appears that there is another compression strut on either side with vertical
cap strips and gussets. This feature is NOT shown on the supplemental plan.
I've completed most everything shown on the plans. Now I'm on my own.
HELP
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Machine shop prices |
Has anyone using the corvair ( or any engine ) went and got the
crank threaded for the safety bolt for the prop?
What's a reasonable fee for going over the crank and doing a job like that?
I thought I would throw that out on here before going around town.
Want to have a little ammo when I start talking to them.
Carl
Please visit my website at
http://www.megsinet.net/skycarl
Sign up with Paypal,it's free and they will
give you $5.00 just for joining.
https://secure.paypal.x.com/refer/pal=skycarl%40megsinet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Holland" <iholland(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Machine shop prices |
"Ian Holland"
Carl, I had the whole job done by a local auto machine shop for
$150 Canadian. This included magnafluxing the crank, regrinding
10 thou and threading. I guess the price of threading was about
$50. They did not have to remove the gear, and it was a first
class job. They had a real old guy in there and did his eyes
light up when he saw the crank. He knew right away what it was.
FWIW,
-=Ian=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard DeCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
"Richard DeCosta"
This may or may not have been a good idea, and either way it's too late, but
I'd love to hear what you guys think of my little tail hinge trick.
Referring to this image:
http://aircamper.org/tail.gif
I cut the tail main beam, the "T" edges, the length of the hinge, then
inserted two 5-ply pieces of plywood on either side, replacing the cut out
part, and then some, & T-88'ed in place. Then, I screwed the hinge in, as
opposed to carving (chopping, sanding, chiseling?) out where the hinge goes.
Keeping in mind it's too late to go back now :) is it good, bad, ugly? Im
also wondering if the corner pieces (not glues in yet) are really needed
here.
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Henderson/Pavliga design |
Kirk Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com>
I've been looking at the archives for more info on motorcycle wheels
as landing gear and notice Henderson/Pavliga mentioned a number of
times.
Where does one find these plans/design?
Thanks
Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Henderson/Pavliga design |
In a message dated 10/28/00 6:45:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
kirkh@unique-software.com writes:
<<
I've been looking at the archives for more info on motorcycle wheels
as landing gear and notice Henderson/Pavliga mentioned a number of
times.
Where does one find these plans/design?
Thanks
Kirk
>>
Kirk,
I think I still have some drawings for hubs in back issues of the Newsletter.
I made mine as follows: the hubs are made from 1 3/4 ID .090 wall 4130
tubing 6 inches long, then used 2 giant washers as flanges welded on inset
1/4" each end, drilled the spoke holes from a homemade drill template, had
them laced (.160" dia spokes)up with a cross three pattern (one spoke crosses
three) onto 18" aluminum alloy rims from our local motorcycle salvage shop
(these rims have 36 holes, some have 40), then installed a 3.00 by 18 street
tire and tube, finally installed commercial, flanged bronze oilite bushings
(two per wheel). These wheels cost $100 each total. I have 80 hours on the
ship now and they are holding up very well. The aircraft is an 1933 version
improved aircamper (split gear). I think 21 wheels work best for 1932
straight gear aircraft. I have lots of photos of these wheels. Maybe this
will help.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
Richard:
That looks aok to me. I'm not familiar with the hinges you referenced but
it looks like you've basically just beefed up the area where the hinges are
attached. My humble opinion, Should work great.
Later,
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard DeCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail hinges
>
> This may or may not have been a good idea, and either way it's too late,
but
> I'd love to hear what you guys think of my little tail hinge trick.
> Referring to this image:
>
> http://aircamper.org/tail.gif
>
> I cut the tail main beam, the "T" edges, the length of the hinge, then
> inserted two 5-ply pieces of plywood on either side, replacing the cut out
> part, and then some, & T-88'ed in place. Then, I screwed the hinge in, as
> opposed to carving (chopping, sanding, chiseling?) out where the hinge
goes.
>
> Keeping in mind it's too late to go back now :) is it good, bad, ugly? Im
> also wondering if the corner pieces (not glues in yet) are really needed
> here.
>
> Richard
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Walter Allen" <overalles(at)hotmail.com> |
For sale-Pietenpol parts; fuselage on cub gear and tailwheel, 3 peice wing,
100 h.p. Ford conversation with 2.5 to 1 gear reduction unit, tail group
(stabilizer, fin, rudder, right and left elevator, control sticks, cub style
fiberglass gas tank, many miscellaneous parts. I can email pictures if any
one is interested. $3500.00 or best offer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
I havn't got that far on mine but if the hinge is the
same width as the narrow part of the tee and the
pocket where it goesis the same depth as the tee part
as you show in your drawing. then the way that you did
it is probably stronger. a person could also make the
the ply piece a little longer and then notch out to
fit around the tee.
--- Richard DeCosta wrote:
> DeCosta"
>
> This may or may not have been a good idea, and
> either way it's too late, but
> I'd love to hear what you guys think of my little
> tail hinge trick.
> Referring to this image:
>
> http://aircamper.org/tail.gif
>
> I cut the tail main beam, the "T" edges, the length
> of the hinge, then
> inserted two 5-ply pieces of plywood on either side,
> replacing the cut out
> part, and then some, & T-88'ed in place. Then, I
> screwed the hinge in, as
> opposed to carving (chopping, sanding, chiseling?)
> out where the hinge goes.
>
> Keeping in mind it's too late to go back now :) is
> it good, bad, ugly? Im
> also wondering if the corner pieces (not glues in
> yet) are really needed
> here.
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
________________________________________________________________________________
Richard,
I would think that the plywood blocks, made as shown in your illustration
with straight up and down sides, will lead to stress risers as the beam
flexes due to the fact that these are end grain glue joints at each side of
the blocks and on each side of the beam. And this will lead to cracks
developing at the glue juncture of the blocks and the beam because end
grain glue joints are the weakest of joints.
Better to have the plywood blocks cut with a 45 ~ 60 deg angle on each
end and with a matching slope cut in the beam to make a stronger joint.
On the back side of the beam where the beam is notched down there will
be an area of over hang from the slope of the plywood block that should
be filled with a matching filler block. This little matching filler block
could
be, say, 3/4 ~ 1" long overall.
Then I wouldn't feel uneasy about the approach to installing the hinges as
you have stated.
Rodger Childs
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)famvid.com> |
| Subject: | The ubiquitous Pietenpol |
I understand (from friends who were in attendance at Copperstate) that
there is a lady in Santa Fe, New Mexico, who has decided to build her own
airplane. What kind? A Piet, of course. Where is she going to build
it? In her adobe house! She is rumored to have already started to move
some of the furnishings around (and perhaps even out) to make room for the
fuselage and wings.
A lot of guys have done this build-it-in-the-house act(an almost guaranteed
method of becoming single again), but I have never before heard of anyone
building a Piet in an adobe hacienda!
Maybe there will even be a writeup in Sport Aviation in a month or two.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Roberts <broberts_35(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: pietenpol parts |
Would you email photos as well as your address and
phone number.
--- Walter Allen wrote:
>
>
> For sale-Pietenpol parts; fuselage on cub gear and
> tailwheel, 3 peice wing,
> 100 h.p. Ford conversation with 2.5 to 1 gear
> reduction unit, tail group
> (stabilizer, fin, rudder, right and left elevator,
> control sticks, cub style
> fiberglass gas tank, many miscellaneous parts. I
> can email pictures if any
> one is interested. $3500.00 or best offer.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Bill Roberts
Vice President of Marketing
New Ventures, Inc.
304 Fort Drive
LaGrange, GA 30240
Phone: 706-882-7723
Fax: 706-882-5401
From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.
http://experts.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Piets,
Would those who have information on weights at various stages of construction
please fill in the following blanks please.
Fuse on gear ----------
Fuse on gear w/engine mounted ----------
Plane w/wings and tail featers w/ eng and prop ---------
Weight on tailwheel of completed Piet ---------
Length of eng mt from firewall for A-65 ---------
Thanks for your help
Corky in La ( The State-NOT that city)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | A Season of Giving - Please Support Your List! |
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============================================================================
>--------------
>--> RV-List message posted by: Al Mojzisik
>
>Well folks,
>
>I hate to spring this on you without much advance warning and all but it's
>November already. For you newer List members you may not know but this is
>the time of year we all give "thanks" for all that Matte Dralle has done
>for us with this RV-List. the customary way of saying "thanks" is with a
>voluntary donation of cash through Matte's own simple and safe contribution
>hot-line at:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>It's really rather painless and actually gives you a good warm and fuzzy
>feeling inside after you have made your contribution. Now last year I
>relied heavily on guilt to get some of you harder nuts to crack to ante
>up. This year I hope that in keeping with the election year theme I can
>learn something from the experts........"It's for the children."
>
>Yes your contribution will help children everywhere learn about the high
>moral values that are inherent in the RV family of aircraft. As our young
>charges surf the Internet for information on various things that we don't
>want them to know about, they may stumble across the Matronics Website and
>become aware of the RV-List and other interesting forums that Matte
>provides. This in turn may change there lives as they see what can be
>achieved through hard work and perseverance. They will learn how the polite
>exchange of idea's between consenting adults can result in the birth of one
>(or more) of the finest aircraft in existence today. They can become aware
>of a whole world out there that had previously been unknown or out of reach
>to them. So in the interest of our children, send your contribution to
>Matte to help the RV-List live long and prosper.............Darn, got my
>tongue caught in my cheek there for a moment.
>
>Once again, you can make your contribution through credit card at:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> c/o Matt Dralle
> Matronics
> P.O. Box 347
> Livermore, CA. 94551
>
>I would like to pledge at this time that I will not place any negative
>advertising in the hope of raising funds for RV-List support. (Unless you
>folks hold out too long, then look out!) Let's have a real clean campaign
>this November and get out the contributions! AL
>--------------
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
Is there an option whereby I can install rudder pedals
instead of a bar on the Piet? Has anyone done this?
If so, how involved is it? Still waiting on the plans
(the "original" plans and the Grega plans), so I have
nothing to reference.
Ed
Connecticut
From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.
http://experts.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R DeCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
The original Piet plans call for a rudder bar for the pilot, and pedals for
the front passenger/student pilot.
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Nolan" <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals
>
> Is there an option whereby I can install rudder pedals
> instead of a bar on the Piet? Has anyone done this?
> If so, how involved is it? Still waiting on the plans
> (the "original" plans and the Grega plans), so I have
> nothing to reference.
>
> Ed
> Connecticut
>
> From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.
> http://experts.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Archives and Plans Quality |
Commandeered the computer last night and read the
archives through May of this year (some great stuff).
It points up the fact that there are obviously many
unanswered questions not being addressed in the plans
(still waiting on mine). As an example, the question
of plywood selection, suggestions as to what aluminum
to use, etc. Granted, many "in the know"--those with
prior building experience--will make their own
decisions as to materials selection, but in my view it
would be nice to have a starting point. I'm a newbie
and have practically zero experience. Also, I'm not
one to venture far afield from the tried and true
unless a real justification can be made.
Has there been any effort on the part of the
Pietenpols to revise and clarify the plans? Given the
apparent popularity of the design, I'm sure there are
many who would appreciate a detailed bill of materials
list from which to work. Anyone have a breakout of AN
and other required hardware?
A few years ago I bought a Pazmany PL4 project and got
a ton of hardware that, I must say somewhat red faced,
have only started to inventory. Lots of AN and NAS
bolts and fabricated spars and ribs. I'm sure I'm
covered in that department to a great extent. The Paz
plans are, without a doubt, the best I have ever seen.
And the building manual is extremely detailed.
However, the bird's a single and my wife wants to join
in the flying fun, too. 8
)
Just bought Mike Cuy's video. Looking forward to
viewing it this weekend.
Cheers.
Ed
Connecticut
From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.
http://experts.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William C. Beerman" <wcb(at)pliantsystems.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
An important consideration in this decision is the fact that
the rudder bar allows only "differential" tension on both rudder
cables and the rudder horn, and prevents one from inadvertantly
bending the horn when pushing with both feet.
That being said, it seems like I've seen (though I can't remember
where) someone who had replaced the bar with pedals, but added
an extra cable which connected the two rudder pedals and kept
all tension on the cables differential.
-Bill
Edward Nolan wrote:
>
>
> Is there an option whereby I can install rudder pedals
> instead of a bar on the Piet? Has anyone done this?
> If so, how involved is it? Still waiting on the plans
> (the "original" plans and the Grega plans), so I have
> nothing to reference.
>
> Ed
> Connecticut
>
> >From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.
> http://experts.yahoo.com/
>
--
William C. Beerman, Principal Engineer
Pliant Systems Inc.
4024 Stirrup Creek Drive, Durham, NC, 27703
919-405-4862 fax: 919-544-5356
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
In a related issue, I have bever received an answer to a question I posted some
time ago about the front pedals. The Hoopman plans show the front pedals
hanging down from the ash cross piece, while the "improved" plans show the
front pedals bolted to the floor. I think the hanging pedals would make a
cleaner installation, but would like to know the reason for the change. Is
there some real reason, clearance or something, to bolt the front rudder pedals
to the floor rather than have them hang down from above?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Archives and Plans Quality |
On a related note, there is an area on www.aircamper.org that lets builders
document any plan errors that they come across. If someone knows of one not
listed, add it to the list.
Joe
Spring, TX
>From: Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com>
>Has there been any effort on the part of the
>Pietenpols to revise and clarify the plans? Given the
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Archives and Plans Quality |
Ed- The Piet plans are very basic but still contain a ton
of info that does not at first jump out at you. Talking on this
group and seeing other Piets will help you see how other
builders approached the subtleties that are not obvious on
the plans. Others are tired of hearing me say this but since you
are new I cannot, cannot stress enough the value and importance
of Tony Bingelis's book set available now thru EAA. It was something
like $75 for the four book set but literally saved me hours and hours,
and much more money than they cost in mistakes. You go to the
airport or ask several mechanic's or rebuilder's how best to do this or
that and you'll get several different answers- some of which might be
either outdated or flat out wrong. Tony's books tell you how to do it
right and gives you several options usually of how to do that thing you
are questioning so you can pick the application that suites your needs
best.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
Ed,
There was a heated discussion about a year ago about the details which the
plans lack, and some areas in which the plans are just downright incorrrect.
I really struggled with this at first too, but I developed a sort of
philosophy about the Pietenpol that I try to embrace when I find a
discrepancy, or lack of detail. I'll try to relate my feelings to you.
The Pietenpol was designed 71 or 72 years ago by someone who had no formal
aviation engineering education, but he did have very strong mechanical
aptitude, and was very bright. In his desire to build a machine for himself
to fly, he developed a single cockpiut airplane and later developed it into
a 2-cockpit bird. He drew out a set of plans he could use, which I don't
think he ever really intending to market. His plans got published in a
flying related magazine for others to build, and so the legend began....
For me, using these old outdated plans, points up the fact that I
obviously do NOT have the skill with tools, nor the plain old horse sense
that the early aviation pioneers like Bernard Pietenpol had, and that irks
me no end! I know all about computers & geology - the stuff of my trade, and
I even have a Commercial/Instrument AND an A&P ticket! I STILL don't know
nearly as much as BHP did! BUT I'M LEARNING!!
What working through these old plans does for me is to allow me to develop
the same skills and airplane smarts as the old timers had. You can look at
Rutan, and I'm not 100% sure he knows more about what it takes to make a
plane fly than BH Pietenpol did, he just has newer materials to work with
that allow greater flexibility in design.
So I guess, with the Pietenpol, you have to do the outside bookwork real
hard. You'll want to collect Tony Bingelis' seies of books, the FAA 43-13
and just about every other book you can get your hands on about building and
maintaining airplanes. That way YOU can figure out what you need to know to
complete your Piet.
When you're through with all this work, and it IS work and a LOT of it,
you'll have one of the slowest, boxiest homebuilt planes in the world today.
I also believe that if you make almost all the parts of this plane, then it
will truly be YOUR plane, and you'll know more about working wood, metal and
fabric than if you built 10 precut, premeasured, step-by-step kits or
designs out there today!
Building a Piet is not really about building yourself a nice flying
nostaglgic plane. It's about developing YOU and YOUR skills with tools, and
knowledge of aircraft materials, and the ability to stick to a difficult
project for a long time. The payoff is in the end of this total immersion
course in aircraft fabrication, you are an extremely knowledgable aircraft
craftsman! The side benefit? You ALSO end up with a fine classic airplane!
When you're done, and go to flyins, or just hangar flying, you can talk
about the decisions you made here and there on YOUR Piet, and you'll know
that every single little tiny rib gussett or spruce block in that plane you
cut and and put there youself.
Ed, embrace the old plans, make the corrections as you find the errors and
develop your skills. But honestly, and please don't take this as rude or
mean-spirited, but just friendly advice. If you're not wanting to immerse
yourself into studying this particular design, and solving LOTS of little
problems yourself, then maybe this isn't the project for you. There are tons
of plan sets out there that probably are much better executed, and leave
nothing to doubt, and are much easier to build, cookbook style. But then
they aren't a Pietenpol!
So far, I've built my ribs, tailfeathers, and I'm about to join-up my
fuselage halves. Sometimes I feel like I'm working in the dark, but I grab a
book and a cup of coffee, and try to solve whatever little problem that
crops up. Remember, You have a host of knowledgable, helpful, people right
at your keyboard! An answer, or at least an opinion isn't far away!
Good luck and happy building!
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
Well said Gary, Sounds like FAQ material!
SteveE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
Meadows
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals
Ed,
There was a heated discussion about a year ago about the details which the
plans lack, and some areas in which the plans are just downright incorrrect.
I really struggled with this at first too, but I developed a sort of
philosophy about the Pietenpol that I try to embrace when I find a
discrepancy, or lack of detail. I'll try to relate my feelings to you.
The Pietenpol was designed 71 or 72 years ago by someone who had no formal
aviation engineering education, but he did have very strong mechanical
aptitude, and was very bright. In his desire to build a machine for himself
to fly, he developed a single cockpiut airplane and later developed it into
a 2-cockpit bird. He drew out a set of plans he could use, which I don't
think he ever really intending to market. His plans got published in a
flying related magazine for others to build, and so the legend began....
For me, using these old outdated plans, points up the fact that I
obviously do NOT have the skill with tools, nor the plain old horse sense
that the early aviation pioneers like Bernard Pietenpol had, and that irks
me no end! I know all about computers & geology - the stuff of my trade, and
I even have a Commercial/Instrument AND an A&P ticket! I STILL don't know
nearly as much as BHP did! BUT I'M LEARNING!!
What working through these old plans does for me is to allow me to develop
the same skills and airplane smarts as the old timers had. You can look at
Rutan, and I'm not 100% sure he knows more about what it takes to make a
plane fly than BH Pietenpol did, he just has newer materials to work with
that allow greater flexibility in design.
So I guess, with the Pietenpol, you have to do the outside bookwork real
hard. You'll want to collect Tony Bingelis' seies of books, the FAA 43-13
and just about every other book you can get your hands on about building and
maintaining airplanes. That way YOU can figure out what you need to know to
complete your Piet.
When you're through with all this work, and it IS work and a LOT of it,
you'll have one of the slowest, boxiest homebuilt planes in the world today.
I also believe that if you make almost all the parts of this plane, then it
will truly be YOUR plane, and you'll know more about working wood, metal and
fabric than if you built 10 precut, premeasured, step-by-step kits or
designs out there today!
Building a Piet is not really about building yourself a nice flying
nostaglgic plane. It's about developing YOU and YOUR skills with tools, and
knowledge of aircraft materials, and the ability to stick to a difficult
project for a long time. The payoff is in the end of this total immersion
course in aircraft fabrication, you are an extremely knowledgable aircraft
craftsman! The side benefit? You ALSO end up with a fine classic airplane!
When you're done, and go to flyins, or just hangar flying, you can talk
about the decisions you made here and there on YOUR Piet, and you'll know
that every single little tiny rib gussett or spruce block in that plane you
cut and and put there youself.
Ed, embrace the old plans, make the corrections as you find the errors and
develop your skills. But honestly, and please don't take this as rude or
mean-spirited, but just friendly advice. If you're not wanting to immerse
yourself into studying this particular design, and solving LOTS of little
problems yourself, then maybe this isn't the project for you. There are tons
of plan sets out there that probably are much better executed, and leave
nothing to doubt, and are much easier to build, cookbook style. But then
they aren't a Pietenpol!
So far, I've built my ribs, tailfeathers, and I'm about to join-up my
fuselage halves. Sometimes I feel like I'm working in the dark, but I grab a
book and a cup of coffee, and try to solve whatever little problem that
crops up. Remember, You have a host of knowledgable, helpful, people right
at your keyboard! An answer, or at least an opinion isn't far away!
Good luck and happy building!
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | 10% for Matronics |
Builder's Bookstore and eCharts is happy to do again, what we did successfully
last year. That is to donate a portion of our sales for the month of November
to the maintenance of the Pietenpol list.
10% FOR MATRONICS
Starting now, 10% of any purchase from either Builder's Bookstore or eCharts
will be put aside as a donation to the Pietenpol list, as our thanks for this
excellent resource for Pietenpol builders and pilots. We will run this special
throughout November with a check for the total amount presented to Matt on
December 1st 2000.
To designate your share, please write the words "10% for Matronics" in the
Special Instructions box on the on-line order form. Or, if you order something
by phone, just tell me when you call.
Thank you Matt for this excellent service.
Andy Gold
Builder's Bookstore
http://buildersbooks.com
eCharts
http://eCharts.cc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R DeCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Newbie questions/ must-have books |
Regarding the "must-have" books... Can someone list exactly which books they
are, I will link to them on aircamper.org for future reference... Plus, I
think I only have one of them, and its going to be a long winter, so I'd
like to have something to read.
Cheers,
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals
>
> Ed,
>
> There was a heated discussion about a year ago about the details which
the
> plans lack, and some areas in which the plans are just downright
incorrrect.
> I really struggled with this at first too, but I developed a sort of
> philosophy about the Pietenpol that I try to embrace when I find a
> discrepancy, or lack of detail. I'll try to relate my feelings to you.
>
> The Pietenpol was designed 71 or 72 years ago by someone who had no
formal
> aviation engineering education, but he did have very strong mechanical
> aptitude, and was very bright. In his desire to build a machine for
himself
> to fly, he developed a single cockpiut airplane and later developed it
into
> a 2-cockpit bird. He drew out a set of plans he could use, which I don't
> think he ever really intending to market. His plans got published in a
> flying related magazine for others to build, and so the legend began....
>
> For me, using these old outdated plans, points up the fact that I
> obviously do NOT have the skill with tools, nor the plain old horse sense
> that the early aviation pioneers like Bernard Pietenpol had, and that irks
> me no end! I know all about computers & geology - the stuff of my trade,
and
> I even have a Commercial/Instrument AND an A&P ticket! I STILL don't know
> nearly as much as BHP did! BUT I'M LEARNING!!
>
> What working through these old plans does for me is to allow me to
develop
> the same skills and airplane smarts as the old timers had. You can look at
> Rutan, and I'm not 100% sure he knows more about what it takes to make a
> plane fly than BH Pietenpol did, he just has newer materials to work with
> that allow greater flexibility in design.
>
> So I guess, with the Pietenpol, you have to do the outside bookwork real
> hard. You'll want to collect Tony Bingelis' seies of books, the FAA 43-13
> and just about every other book you can get your hands on about building
and
> maintaining airplanes. That way YOU can figure out what you need to know
to
> complete your Piet.
>
> When you're through with all this work, and it IS work and a LOT of it,
> you'll have one of the slowest, boxiest homebuilt planes in the world
today.
> I also believe that if you make almost all the parts of this plane, then
it
> will truly be YOUR plane, and you'll know more about working wood, metal
and
> fabric than if you built 10 precut, premeasured, step-by-step kits or
> designs out there today!
>
> Building a Piet is not really about building yourself a nice flying
> nostaglgic plane. It's about developing YOU and YOUR skills with tools,
and
> knowledge of aircraft materials, and the ability to stick to a difficult
> project for a long time. The payoff is in the end of this total immersion
> course in aircraft fabrication, you are an extremely knowledgable aircraft
> craftsman! The side benefit? You ALSO end up with a fine classic airplane!
>
> When you're done, and go to flyins, or just hangar flying, you can talk
> about the decisions you made here and there on YOUR Piet, and you'll know
> that every single little tiny rib gussett or spruce block in that plane
you
> cut and and put there youself.
>
> Ed, embrace the old plans, make the corrections as you find the errors
and
> develop your skills. But honestly, and please don't take this as rude or
> mean-spirited, but just friendly advice. If you're not wanting to immerse
> yourself into studying this particular design, and solving LOTS of little
> problems yourself, then maybe this isn't the project for you. There are
tons
> of plan sets out there that probably are much better executed, and leave
> nothing to doubt, and are much easier to build, cookbook style. But then
> they aren't a Pietenpol!
>
> So far, I've built my ribs, tailfeathers, and I'm about to join-up my
> fuselage halves. Sometimes I feel like I'm working in the dark, but I grab
a
> book and a cup of coffee, and try to solve whatever little problem that
> crops up. Remember, You have a host of knowledgable, helpful, people right
> at your keyboard! An answer, or at least an opinion isn't far away!
>
> Good luck and happy building!
> Gary Meadows
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED GRENTZER" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
Hi Gary
Where is this all coming from. I have never bitched about the plans.I
too have put out the efforts to figure out the ways and means of doing
things that the plans don't detail. I've used the internet and the manuals
and talked to people personally. I've even gone ahead and taken the plunge
on my own only to find out later that I had to redo certain parts ( more
than a coulple times ). In a personal E-mail to Leon Stefan I did say that
after 70 years you would think someone would put a foot note on the plans
stating that the control tube won't fit in the plane after the seats are
glued in, If thats where this is coming from excuse me!!! I don't get it.
Ed G.
Palm Harbor Fl.
>From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals
>Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 15:35:38 GMT
>
>
>
>Ed,
>
> There was a heated discussion about a year ago about the details which
>the
>plans lack, and some areas in which the plans are just downright
>incorrrect.
>I really struggled with this at first too, but I developed a sort of
>philosophy about the Pietenpol that I try to embrace when I find a
>discrepancy, or lack of detail. I'll try to relate my feelings to you.
>
> The Pietenpol was designed 71 or 72 years ago by someone who had no
>formal
>aviation engineering education, but he did have very strong mechanical
>aptitude, and was very bright. In his desire to build a machine for himself
>to fly, he developed a single cockpiut airplane and later developed it into
>a 2-cockpit bird. He drew out a set of plans he could use, which I don't
>think he ever really intending to market. His plans got published in a
>flying related magazine for others to build, and so the legend began....
>
> For me, using these old outdated plans, points up the fact that I
>obviously do NOT have the skill with tools, nor the plain old horse sense
>that the early aviation pioneers like Bernard Pietenpol had, and that irks
>me no end! I know all about computers & geology - the stuff of my trade,
>and
>I even have a Commercial/Instrument AND an A&P ticket! I STILL don't know
>nearly as much as BHP did! BUT I'M LEARNING!!
>
> What working through these old plans does for me is to allow me to
>develop
>the same skills and airplane smarts as the old timers had. You can look at
>Rutan, and I'm not 100% sure he knows more about what it takes to make a
>plane fly than BH Pietenpol did, he just has newer materials to work with
>that allow greater flexibility in design.
>
>So I guess, with the Pietenpol, you have to do the outside bookwork real
>hard. You'll want to collect Tony Bingelis' seies of books, the FAA 43-13
>and just about every other book you can get your hands on about building
>and
>maintaining airplanes. That way YOU can figure out what you need to know to
>complete your Piet.
>
> When you're through with all this work, and it IS work and a LOT of it,
>you'll have one of the slowest, boxiest homebuilt planes in the world
>today.
>I also believe that if you make almost all the parts of this plane, then it
>will truly be YOUR plane, and you'll know more about working wood, metal
>and
>fabric than if you built 10 precut, premeasured, step-by-step kits or
>designs out there today!
>
>Building a Piet is not really about building yourself a nice flying
>nostaglgic plane. It's about developing YOU and YOUR skills with tools, and
>knowledge of aircraft materials, and the ability to stick to a difficult
>project for a long time. The payoff is in the end of this total immersion
>course in aircraft fabrication, you are an extremely knowledgable aircraft
>craftsman! The side benefit? You ALSO end up with a fine classic airplane!
>
> When you're done, and go to flyins, or just hangar flying, you can talk
>about the decisions you made here and there on YOUR Piet, and you'll know
>that every single little tiny rib gussett or spruce block in that plane you
>cut and and put there youself.
>
> Ed, embrace the old plans, make the corrections as you find the errors
>and
>develop your skills. But honestly, and please don't take this as rude or
>mean-spirited, but just friendly advice. If you're not wanting to immerse
>yourself into studying this particular design, and solving LOTS of little
>problems yourself, then maybe this isn't the project for you. There are
>tons
>of plan sets out there that probably are much better executed, and leave
>nothing to doubt, and are much easier to build, cookbook style. But then
>they aren't a Pietenpol!
>
> So far, I've built my ribs, tailfeathers, and I'm about to join-up my
>fuselage halves. Sometimes I feel like I'm working in the dark, but I grab
>a
>book and a cup of coffee, and try to solve whatever little problem that
>crops up. Remember, You have a host of knowledgable, helpful, people right
>at your keyboard! An answer, or at least an opinion isn't far away!
>
>Good luck and happy building!
>Gary Meadows
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
Ed,
There was adiscussion on this before and the consensus was that rudder
pedals can put a lot of strain on the rudder horn, enough to break or
bend it. It was the opinion that the rudder bar is the way to go. Our
project came with rudder pedals, and I still have them if you want them,
but as we had to more or less start over agin, we installed the rudder
bars.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com> |
I recommend "The West System" as an excellent glue. Originally designed for
marine applications. Very strong epoxy. No smell/fumes. Easy to mix. Can
work with it down to 60 degrees F. Not particularly cheap however. I get
mine from WICKS in Illinois. Building in the garage
>From: "Pete Smith" <psmith(at)tein.net>
>
>My plans have been ordered but a few questions can't wait. What is the glue
>Thanks
>
>Pete Smith
>Lewistown, MT
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
The original plans call for the front seat rudder pedals to be mounted
to the floor, but this would pose a number of problems, mainly how to
keep them upright when nobody has their feet on them. There needs to be
a spring to keep the pedals up and all plane built with such an
arrangement have this spring someplace, or like in a Stearman, the rudder
pedal system is fully closed and there is a cable and pulley arrangement
to keep the pedals up.
The hanging rudder pedals solves this problem. We installed rudder bars
fore and aft on ours as I saw many of the Piets at Brodhead did that and
it looked the simplist way to go to me.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
>
> In a related issue, I have bever received an answer to a question I
> posted some
> time ago about the front pedals. The Hoopman plans show the front
> pedals
> hanging down from the ash cross piece, while the "improved" plans
> show the
> front pedals bolted to the floor. I think the hanging pedals would
> make a
> cleaner installation, but would like to know the reason for the
> change. Is
> there some real reason, clearance or something, to bolt the front
> rudder pedals
> to the floor rather than have them hang down from above?
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Holland" <iholland(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | List of "Must Have Books" |
>Regarding the "must-have" books... Can someone list exactly
which books they
>are, I will link to them on aircamper.org for future
reference... Plus, I
>think I only have one of them, and its going to be a long
winter, so I'd
>like to have something to read.
Regarding the above, and looking at my bookshelf, I have used the
following extensively. ( Almost ready for covering and engine
mounting)
Aircraft Spruce and Specialty Catalogue... lots of helpful ideas
Firewall Forward... Tony Bingalis.... from the EAA
Aircraft Welding...EAA building techniques... very clear and
straightforward!
Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices, Aircraft
Inspection and repair... Department of Transportation
Wick's aircraft Supply Catalogue... Lots of tips
How to Cover an Aircraft using the Classic Aero System...
Polyfiber, Inc.
An Introduction to the Poly fiber fabric Covering system
Polyfiber, Inc
Replicraft Aviation Inc, aircraft Components and Systems
Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook, a guide to the construction
Standards for the Amateur Aircraft Builder... from the EAA
Wood, Aircraft Building Techniques.... from the EAA
1932 Flying Manual... from the EAA
1933 Flying Manual... from the EAA, homebuilt floats
Builders Information Manual ... EAA
Converting Corvair engines for Use in Experimental Aircraft...
William Wynne
Clark's Corvair parts... catalogue
How to Hot Rod Corvair engines...Bill fisher via Clark's Corvair
Parts
1967 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual, and Supplement.. from Clark's
Corvair Underground ... catalogue
How to Keep your Corvair Alive... Richard Finch
Back issues of the Pietenpol newsletters
Pietenpol Chat group!
I also highly recommend the video " Welding, Learn the basics of
oxyacetylene welding"... from EAA. This clears up a lot of the
mystery when used with the above Welding manual.
I am starting to believe the saying that when the paperwork
weighs to same as the airplane, it's ready to fly!
Hope this helps.
-=Ian=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Bingelis Books, Others thru EAA |
Richard- Here are two links to some books EAA offers, including the
second one which tells about the Tony B. books.
I'm sure there are many other good how-to books out there and
hopefully others will share what helped them along the way.
Mike C.
http://shop.eaa.org/html/mainstore.html?cart_id
http://shop.eaa.org/html/2books_bingelis.html?cart_id
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Front Pedals, Rear Rudder bar. |
>John L. wrote:
> The original plans call for the front seat rudder pedals to be
> mounted
>to the floor, but this would pose a number of problems, mainly how to
>keep them upright when nobody has their feet on them. There needs to be
>a spring to keep the pedals up.........
John- I stole a neat idea from Frank Pavliga's Sky Gypsy to avoid putting
in these springs. Whacha do is run an 1/8" rod of 4130 between the rudder
bar ends and the tops of the tabs on the outside edge tops of the front
rudder pedals. I threaded the ends for small fork-end fittings that slipped
over the flattened ends of the rudder bar, clevis pinned them and cotter
pinned into a hole drilled in that flat spot next to where the rudder cable
goes the tother direction....and welded a flat rectangle say 1/2" w x 3.5"
long to the front end of the rod vertically on the side with several holes
drilled in so you could adjust the point at which this is clevis pinned into
the front pedals. (this would be much easier to sketch out) It's in the
video though for those who have it. For those who don't I can sketch it
and mail it out. Several guys have done this.....works fine.
With regard to the rudder bar question- I had never flown with one but it
was really pretty easy to adjust to and the handful of guys who have
soloed my piet say the same. The Curtiss Jenny's had a rudder
bar and many others. It's not too bad. Easy to make and mount too.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Newbie questions/ must-have books |
Mike Cuy's suggestion of the Bingelis series is a good one.
Other good books are:
"Aircraft Maintenance" by Brimm and Bogess 1940
"Aircraft Engineering" By Lt. Alexander Klemin 1918
ANC-18 and ANC-19, these books deal with wood aircraft structures and go into
far more detail than we need for the Pietenpol but are still very good.
AC43.13
"Aircraft Welding" by S. Elzea 1941
"Aircraft Tubing" by Summerill, excellent info on aircraft tubing.
Get a copy of "Machinery's Handbook"
Larger libraries and Universities have an amazing number of books pertaining to
airplane building. A library card just might be one of your most valuable tools.
And regarding the comments on the lack of detail in the plans, think of them more
as "suggestions and guidelines" than plans. The quaintness of them is part
of the charm.
Greg Cardinal
>>> "R DeCosta" 11/01 10:37 PM >>>
Regarding the "must-have" books... Can someone list exactly which books they
are, I will link to them on aircamper.org for future reference... Plus, I
think I only have one of them, and its going to be a long winter, so I'd
like to have something to read.
Cheers,
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals
>
> Ed,
>
> There was a heated discussion about a year ago about the details which
the
> plans lack, and some areas in which the plans are just downright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)famvid.com> |
| Subject: | Brodhead USA article in "Experimenter" magazine |
Mary Jones and Bob Whittier have done it again!
The November 2000 issue of "Experimenter" magazine has pages 7, 8, 9,10,
and 11 full of photos and descriptions by Bob Whittier, who attended the
2000 Brodhead Pietenpol fly-in.
For once, Bob even got into one of the photos. He is shown seated in Virl
Deal's Ford-powered Piet, which Virl flew in from Iowa. Want to see what a
Piet looks like with a 145 Warner radial ? Lowell Frank's Piet is
pictured. We see Vi Kapler (who worked with Bernie for a number of years)
in the midst of his annual lecture and question session. William Wynne is
pictured with a crowd around his Corvair-powered Piet.
One of the Brodhead features is the opportunity to poke around in the owner
hangars and see the fascinating projects that are going on. Bob shows some
of this, too. And, of course, when the late afternoon comes along and the
sun is in the West, the constant buzz of Fords and Corvairs and Escorts and
Subarus overhead in the pattern, hopping first-time Piet passengers is
something that sticks with you a long, long time. And interspersed are a
few Aeronca C-3s, Wacos, and assorted old biplanes.
No tower, no commercials, no admission fee - just grass and people. And
great food.
Next year the Brodhead gathering is to be July 20-22, just before the EAA
AirVenture at Oshkosh.
Bob Whittier has written some great articles about the Piet in the last
year, complete with lots of photos and drawings. If any of you missed
these, get in touch with me and I will get copies to you.
Any EAA member can add "Experimenter" to his membership for an additional
$20 per year. It really is the continuation of the old original early
issues of Paul's "Sport Aviation" magazine (in fact originally Paul called
EAA's magazine "The Experimenter"). Bob Whittier was writing for EAA even
back then.
Mary Jones is the editor of "Experimenter" and is a good personal friend of
a lot of us. She admits that it is a personal coup to have someone of Bob
Whittier's stature writing a series called "Light Plane Heritage."
Send your $20 to:
Experimenter
EAA Aviation Center
3000 Poberezny Road
P.O.Box 3086
Oshkosh WI 54903-3086
Tell Mary that you are a Piet person!
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)famvid.com> |
| Subject: | More "Experimenter" magazine....... |
In my last note, I should have included the fact that in the November 2000
issue of "Experimenter," there is a photo spread about AirVenture 2000. On
page 28 is a photo of William's Piet being taxied out of the parking area.
Personal note: Page 29 has a couple of pictures and a writeup on the
carburetion/ignition system John Monnett is testing on the Sonex. On page
47 is a picture of Tony Spicer's homebuilt Sonex - the first one that was
built from plans away from Oshkosh. John has three Sonexes (Sonexs,
Sonii?)xxxxx John now has one Sonex and two more sitting in the shop at
Oshkosh. One has a 4-cylinder Jabiru, one has a 6-cylinder Jabiru, and one
has the big VW engine pictured on page 29 of "Experimenter." The fourth
(VW powered) built here is a few miles away, but still near Oshkosh. By
the way, Jabiru is testing an eight-cylinder engine now in Australia, so
John's eyes are glazing over.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
> the consensus was pedals can put a lot of strain on
> the rudder horn, enough to break or bend it. It was
> the opinion that the rudder bar is the way to go.
Could this not be beefed up with a heavier horn? How
do other designs differ in terms of "allowing" the use
of pedals in their construction? Do the Grega or
steel fuselage versions allow such an installation?
Am I assuming correctly that practically all the list
members have decided on the bar as the way to go?
Bottom line, how does it feel and handle on the ground
and in flight? And has anyone had a momentary lapse
and pushed the wrong foot in at the wrong time?
Ed
From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.
http://experts.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Archives and Plans Quality |
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Archives and Plans Quality
For one who has never seen Tony B's books , you can't imagine how helpfull
they are. I like them because it eases my mind when I try to over engineer
something. Shows the simpilest and most foolproof way to do it.
Only bad part about his books are that , on the way to the page that you're
looking for, you always get side tracked with all the other neat stuff.
walt
>
> either outdated or flat out wrong. Tony's books tell you how to do it
> right and gives you several options usually of how to do that thing you
> are questioning so you can pick the application that suites your needs
> best.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals
>
> > the consensus was pedals can put a lot of strain on
> > the rudder horn, enough to break or bend it. It was
> > the opinion that the rudder bar is the way to go.
>
> Could this not be beefed up with a heavier horn? How
> do other designs differ in terms of "allowing" the use
> of pedals in their construction? Do the Grega or
> steel fuselage versions allow such an installation?
>
> Am I assuming correctly that practically all the list
> members have decided on the bar as the way to go?
> Bottom line, how does it feel and handle on the ground
> and in flight? And has anyone had a momentary lapse
> and pushed the wrong foot in at the wrong time?
>
> Ed
>
The rudder controls are not reversed with the bar vs. the pedals.
should fly the same old way.
walt
>
> From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.
> http://experts.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Archives and Plans Quality |
I agree with that, you open a Bingelis book looking for one solution and
you close it with a bunch of ideas for your plane. Fun to read even when
your not looking for an answer to a problem.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of walter
evans
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Archives and Plans Quality
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Archives and Plans Quality
For one who has never seen Tony B's books , you can't imagine how helpfull
they are. I like them because it eases my mind when I try to over engineer
something. Shows the simpilest and most foolproof way to do it.
Only bad part about his books are that , on the way to the page that you're
looking for, you always get side tracked with all the other neat stuff.
walt
>
> either outdated or flat out wrong. Tony's books tell you how to do it
> right and gives you several options usually of how to do that thing you
> are questioning so you can pick the application that suites your needs
October 01, 2000 - November 02, 2000
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bs