Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bx
March 09, 2001 - April 14, 2001
> engine to use. Any
> advice would be welcomed. Has anyone had dealings
> with W. Wynne? Mark
> McKellar Mt. Pleasant, Tx
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Merrill <lagom(at)earthlink.net> |
I just had lunch with william about 5 weeks ago at our EAA sunday fly in at Deland
Fl. I got his manual too. Spent the day talking about motors and piets.
His was flying all day there at the airport with others trying it out. Didn't
get a ride, but a very knowledgeable guy. He is president of another EAA chapter
and always on the go. Took a month to get the manual and 2 weeks to hear
back from him after phone calls. And I only live a few miles away from him. He's
not avoiding, just a very busy, go-getter type guy. Well worth the wait. If
you ever get him cornered, he can give you answers that you can rely on.
Merrill
Mt. Dora, Fl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: William Wynne |
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
03/09/2001 03:56:14 PM
Mark,
Now that there has been a blizzard of positive comments about William, I
will tack on a couple more comments.
When I said he was easy to communicate with, I meant it as in 'converse
with', I too find him hard to catch up with.
Secondly, it was our visit to William's shop that convinced my wife that I:
a.) wasn't nuts
b.) didn't have a death wish
c.) really do have a passion for aviation & that the Piet project was
feasible for me to do.
William was also able to convince her that this whole 'experimental'
aviation thing is by & large safe. She came away from the visit a whole lot
more positive about my desire to undertake this project. Not bad
considering that she, by her own admission doesn't feel safe unless she has
'all 4 feet on the ground'. One of the smartest things I've ever done.
BTW, for all of you who have his manual, he told me that he is going to
start work on another revision & that comments about improvements &/or
parts of the manual that could stand clarification would be welcome.
mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net@matronics.com on 03/09/2001 12:53:51 PM
Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne
I've been trying to get in touch with William Wynne for about a month
with no success. I wanted to use a Corvair engine and ordered one of his
conversion manuals about 3 weeks ago. I even sent a money order so he
would'nt have to wait for a check to clear. I have'nt recieved it as of
today. I'm trying to make a decision about what engine to use. Any
advice would be welcomed. Has anyone had dealings with W. Wynne? Mark
McKellar Mt. Pleasant,Tx
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
Laboratory Manager, ODU
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmospheric Sciences
4600 Elkhorn Avenue
Norfolk, VA 23529
(757)683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Don't Drink and Park - 'Accidents' Cause People"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mckellars" <mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net> |
Gentlemen, Thanks for the replys. I'm glad to hear so many positive
comments regarding Mr. Wynne.It sounds like many of you are using or
plan to use Corvair conversions. The other option I was considering was
a Subaru but I did'nt like the idea of a water cooled engine and I was
under the impression that the Corvair had more power. Mark McKellar
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: William Wynne |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
03/09/2001 05:40:48 PM
I certainly would not put down the Subaru, but I selected the Corvair
because it is aircooled, direct drive, less expensive than the Subaru
and I think easier to work on.
Mike
ps. also be sure to get onto the Corvair list at
owner-corvaircraft(at)listserv.usm.edu. Download the archives and spend
the weekend reading through this very active list.
"Mckellars"
To:
Sent by: cc:
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat Subject: Pietenpol-List:
William Wynne
ronics.com
03/09/2001 05:21 PM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list
Gentlemen, Thanks for the replys. I'm glad to hear so many positive
comments regarding Mr. Wynne.It sounds like many of you are using or
plan to use Corvair conversions. The other option I was considering
was
a Subaru but I did'nt like the idea of a water cooled engine and I
was
under the impression that the Corvair had more power. Mark McKellar
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brad James <dogladdy(at)mindspring.com> |
Please remove me from the list.
Thanks, Brad James
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brad James <dogladdy(at)mindspring.com> |
>
>Please remove me from the list.
>
>Thanks, Brad James
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: William Wynne |
The issue of power in the Corvair has been kicked around many times. It
seems that at the rpm that it can be run, with direct drive, the power
output is somewhere around 50/60 hp.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mckellars" <mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne
>
> Gentlemen, Thanks for the replys. I'm glad to hear so many positive
> comments regarding Mr. Wynne.It sounds like many of you are using or
> plan to use Corvair conversions. The other option I was considering was
> a Subaru but I did'nt like the idea of a water cooled engine and I was
> under the impression that the Corvair had more power. Mark McKellar
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | K0BLR(at)webtv.net (Ben Ramler) |
How has people done there turtle backing. I will be rebuildig everything
above the top longeron and the turtle back is first.
Thanks all,
Ben Ramler
________________________________________________________________________________
A great site to reference is:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/images/Engine/Completed_145/
for an amazing corvair rebuild
also check the main site
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT
It is not too difficult to get quite a bit more horsepower even at
direct drive rpm's. Just by removing the blower fan you can probably
get 10 extra h.p. - upgrade the camshaft and get another 5-10 h.p.
I believe that Pat Panzera, who built the beautiful engine above is
expecting 110-120 hp (based on dyno software).
I have an '61 84 hp corvair that I'm rebuilding for my aircamper and
expect 90-100 hp at takeoff and obviously less than that at cruise.
Here are some dyno stats
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/specs.html
Mark Langford has a bunch of other helpful stuff on his site
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair
Hope this helps
Kirk
>
>
>The issue of power in the Corvair has been kicked around many times. It
>seems that at the rpm that it can be run, with direct drive, the power
>output is somewhere around 50/60 hp.
>walt
>-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
>How has people done there turtle backing. I will be rebuildig
everything
>above the top longeron and the turtle back is first.
>Thanks all,
>Ben Ramler
A suggestion;
Two methods to attach the stringers to the formers:
1) notch the formers or:
2) no sweat method, lay the stringers on the formers, line them up,then
notch individual pieces of ply, set them on the stringers, & glue them
to the formers.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Williams" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
Merrill
You have asked a couple of times about the differences between the Piet and the
GN-1. You are located in Mt Dora and that puts you very close to a good friend
of mine (Randy Bruce) who has plans for both and has done an in-depth analysis
of the two designs. He lives in Sanford but his Piet is at mid-florida airport
in one of the new hangars.
If you will E-mail me directly with your phone number, I'll pass it along to him
and you will be treated to the results of his comparisons.
It occurs to me that you are also in the vicinity of Lou Larson who should have
his Piet almost ready to cover. If you hurry maybe you can see it
uncovered and get a lot of questions answered. The other prospect might be Alan
Wise who hangars at Orlando Executive. He might not know much about Grega's design,
though.
They are all fine gentlemen who will be happy to assist you in making your decision
and provide help if you need it.
Best of luck!!
f"http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Merrill" <lagom(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet vs grega |
Thanks Larry,
I have talked at length with Randy at his hanger and seen his 0-200, steel
tube piet. Great wealth of knowledge. Lou Larsen has, (in my opinion) the
best example of a piet I have seen. (no put down to Mike C's) Lou has
thought out everything and done a fabulous job that I hope to come close to.
It was a great visit with him and his plane. I just have questions rolling
around my head here at work, and wanting an answer to have a better
understanding about the two planes. I am building a Piet.
I will stay in touch with them both. I think it was you at first who told me
about them and how to contact them over the summer. Lou is on this list if
anyone is interested in contacting him, Randy would have to be contacted by
phone.
If any one is interested, let me know as well.
Merrill
Mt. Dora, Fl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
They are both great airplanes,but, let's face it, they are look alikes,
but not the same airplane. The Piet was initially designed for the "A"
engine. Any other engine requires modification. The Grega was designed
for the A 65. I do believe no mods are required with that engine.
The Grega has a different airfoil from the Piet, the fuselage has ply
its entire length & the fittings are different from the Piet.
If I was to build again with a A 65, I would proably build a Grega.
Please, I don't mean to start a controversy ( as has occured in the past
). Take your choice, either way you will have a good airplane.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mckellars" <mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net> |
Is the aircamper web page down? I can't get in and I really need to see
some pictures of center sections. I'm working on my center section and
I've made it about 6 in wider than the plans.Now I'm wondering where to
put the compression strut. Mark McKellar
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
I tried to get into www.aircamper.org yesterday and had no luck
Chris bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: aircamper.org |
try .com in stead of .org.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 'Cut out' verses 'flopp' in center cection |
Corky,
I watched a much younger guy get into the cockpit of his flapless Piet
at Brodhead a couple of yeras ago; I don't think I can bend that much
anymore.
I 60 years old, stand 6' tall and weigh around 180 lbs. I can get into
a Piet reasonably easy by the method Chuck described, and I do have to
grab my pant lewg to get my leg high enough. I was showing my partners
how to this when we first got our plane up on its gear and learned
something new. The fuselage without its wings and engine and all is
quite light and while you are practicing getting in and out of the plane,
make sure that it can't roll or turn while you've got one leg on the
longeron and the other still on the ground. That really can hurt! And
I'm sure it really looks dumb.
My two partners are a little shoter than I and one is ten years older,
so we are going to make a step of some sort -- just haven't started yet.
There was a good discussion on this earlier and there must be some good
information in the archives. I would not consider building this airplane
without installing the access flap for the rear seat.
If you think getting into the rear seat is tough, try getting into the
front seat with the wing, struts, and flying wires all in place. I did
it, so I can still bend that much, but I did make a fool of myself trying
it. Sure enjoyed the flight though.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 'Cut out' verses 'flopp' in center cection |
John,
Honestly, When I finally blubbard my way into the rear hole I knew d--- well
I'd have to remove the centersectio or have the Mrs call 911 to get out. I've
destructured the whole plane . Removed the gears and put the fuse on it's
side in my little shop, This to fab the brake system. I've decided to use
heel brakes with levers about like a cub. Instead of connecting to the cyl at
a point on this lever I will weld an attachment rod to drop through a slot in
the floor to activate the cyl mounted under the floor. I acquired a pair of
Scott 4200 parking brakes cyl to complete the under floor rig. It will be
easier to mount this with the fuse available to turn on both side and bottom.
Will have to make the under fuse fairing a pair and deeper.
On the subject of Pietenpol ingress, I am changing my center section to the
hinged flap. Haven't seen any pics or read any discussion on this but have
pictured mentally how I think I will proceed. Will establish a second rear
spar about 2 to 3 inches in rear of the rear spar to extend through the gap
between center section and wings. Leaving clearence, finish out this "wing "
to the trailing edge. This will omit a wide gap on either side of the flap
wing. Mount on solid material with a piano hinge and a pair of latches. This,
I dream, will help me get into this thing.
Soprry for so long a description but it might stimulate some differing
opinions which helps in the learning and building processes.
Corky in cloudy Louisiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | What about these changes? |
I would imagine I might get one or two comments on the following idea. As I
stated earlier, I have the fuse down to the "box". After looking at it side
by side and underneath once again I am about to decide to make me a couple of
false, parallel longerons about 5 inches lower at each pit and create a
couple of fold over doors for a little easier in and out. Anyone ever tried
this? Someone with a sketch or drawing to assist? Get your can opener.
Corky still in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ken breier" <kbreier(at)mediaone.net> |
Hey Builders, I've monitored the list for a while now, and am working on
putting a corvair engine together. How long does it take to remove and
install the wings on a 3-piece. I have not ordered the plans yet.
Thanks, Ken in Atlanta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What about these changes? |
Corky suggested:
> After looking at it side
> by side and underneath once again I am about to decide to make me a couple
of
> false, parallel longerons about 5 inches lower at each pit and create a
> couple of fold over doors for a little easier in and out.
If I understand you correctly, you plan to sever the upper
longerons, so that are interrupted at each pit. If this is
correct, you are definitely headed for a "put your head
between your knees, and pucker up" situation. It takes
a lot of re-thinking to do this safely.
That said, Keri Ann Price did it successfully. It's been
a while since I saw her plane, and I can't recall whether
there were doors on both cockpits or only the front one.
However, last I heard, Keri Ann offered drawings, and
perhaps instructions, for this and several other mods.
Try writing to:
Keri Ann Price
9 Piper Lane
Hampton, NH 03842.
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: What about these changes? |
Thanks Owen,
I'll give her a call tomorrow am. Ithink this can be done safely. Those
parallels could be beefed up and crossed brace with additional gussets. Yes,
I mean both cockpits even if I had to alternate them on either side. As for
the pucker-up head between my knees situation, it's worse than that trying to
get aboard presently and I still can't get that right leg high enough to get
over yet. Fire plug or no fire plug.
Corky, practicing leg-ups in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JOEL CARROLL <drcarroll_2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What about these changes? |
hi
gary price and i think bill rewey did
--- Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
> Isablcorky(at)aol.com
>
> I would imagine I might get one or two comments on
> the following idea. As I
> stated earlier, I have the fuse down to the "box".
> After looking at it side
> by side and underneath once again I am about to
> decide to make me a couple of
> false, parallel longerons about 5 inches lower at
> each pit and create a
> couple of fold over doors for a little easier in and
> out. Anyone ever tried
> this? Someone with a sketch or drawing to assist?
> Get your can opener.
> Corky still in La
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Front cockpit door |
I installed the K.A.Price door in my front cockpit. His plans are for
the front pit only. He places a stout 1X5 plank under the door sil
which then turns downward to the front gear mt. and to the area of the
upright brace that the rear seat back is glued to. (at lower longeron)
. I don't think you could do this mod in the rear cockpit as the fus.
takes a lot of taper in that area. It would be hard to get a 1X5 plank
to bend. I also think it would be very difficult (maybe impossible) to
install the door if your fus. is already put together. I made the door
when I built my r. fus. side. It's right side only. At the
Piet. fly in at Benton Ks. last Sept there was a Piet there with a right
front door and a left rear door. (Tri Pacer style) It really looked
funny. Actually it looked unsafe. The doors were really deep cut in the
fus. sides. Kerri Price door is only 10 in deep. The 2 door Piet only
stayed a short time. He left before I got to look it over. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <greg(at)controlvision.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aircamper.org |
www.aircamper.org is correct. There is a server with that name. Apparently
the main default page is whacked.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Mckellars <mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: aircamper.org
>
> Is the aircamper web page down? I can't get in and I really need to see
> some pictures of center sections. I'm working on my center section and
> I've made it about 6 in wider than the plans.Now I'm wondering where to
> put the compression strut. Mark McKellar
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aircamper.org |
It has not worked for me for three days now.
chris bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What about these changes? |
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
03/12/2001 10:25:10 AM
owen(at)davies.mv.com@matronics.com on 03/12/2001 02:13:50 AM
Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: What about these changes?, Corvair power
Corky suggested:
> After looking at it side
> by side and underneath once again I am about to decide to make me a
couple
of
> false, parallel longerons about 5 inches lower at each pit and create a
> couple of fold over doors for a little easier in and out.
If I understand you correctly, you plan to sever the upper
longerons, so that are interrupted at each pit. If this is
correct, you are definitely headed for a "put your head
between your knees, and pucker up" situation. It takes
a lot of re-thinking to do this safely.
That said, Keri Ann Price did it successfully. It's been
a while since I saw her plane, and I can't recall whether
there were doors on both cockpits or only the front one.
However, last I heard, Keri Ann offered drawings, and
perhaps instructions, for this and several other mods.
Try writing to:
Keri Ann Price
9 Piper Lane
Hampton, NH 03842.
Owen Davies
**************************************************
Owen (& anyone else interested),
As far as I know, you can no longer reach Keri Ann at the above address;
also ,the phone # that went with it (got it from one of Grant Mc's BPA web
site pages) is no longer in service. A few week back I posted a query as to
any knowledge of her contact information & Joel Carrol gave me the
following address, to date I have written her for a plans list & prices but
have received no reply:
keri-ann price
pob 1133
north hampton,nh.03862-1133
I do not have a current phone # (does anyone?).
BTW, William Wynne claims 100hp for his Corvair conversion based on
dynaometer data. His conversion plans call for (optionally) leaving off the
blower fan, using a different cam, different timing advance and a different
exhaust manifold than a stock Corvair conversion. He also has an option of
a 125hp conversion using a kit of parts from some guy in SC who uses VW
cylinders & pistons to increase displacement. Somewhere out there is a web
site (I'll see if I can dig up the url) for a guy in OR who is building one
of these, with some nice pictures.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
Laboratory Manager, ODU
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmospheric Sciences
4600 Elkhorn Avenue
Norfolk, VA 23529
(757)683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Don't Drink and Park - 'Accidents' Cause People"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: What about these changes? |
I sent a SASE to Keri Ann Price at that new address a while back for a list
of plans and parts. No response so far.
Tom
Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
Brad,
Remove YOURSELF...
Just follow the instructions on the bottom of ALL
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Brad James wrote:
Subscription:
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | removing 3 piece wing |
>Pietenpol-List message posted by: "ken breier"
>Hey Builders, I've monitored the list for a while now, and am working
on
>putting a corvair engine together. How long does it take to remove and
>install the wings on a 3-piece. I have not ordered the plans yet.
>Thanks, Ken in Atlanta
Hey Ken, it aint easy. I have done it when I brought my Piet to the
airport. It is not a one man job. It is not something I would want to
do on a regular basis.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: removing 3 piece wing |
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
03/12/2001 01:32:17 PM
mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net@matronics.com on 03/12/2001 12:56:40 PM
Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: removing 3 piece wing
>Pietenpol-List message posted by: "ken breier"
>Hey Builders, I've monitored the list for a while now, and am working
on
>putting a corvair engine together. How long does it take to remove and
>install the wings on a 3-piece. I have not ordered the plans yet.
>Thanks, Ken in Atlanta
Hey Ken, it aint easy. I have done it when I brought my Piet to the
airport. It is not a one man job. It is not something I would want to
do on a regular basis.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
************************************************************************
Ken,
Part of the reason I am trying to get hold of Keri ann Price is that she
sells a 3-piece wing plan. According to old info I have about it, it
reduces the wing-center section gaps to 1/8" and the panels can can be
removed much more easily than on the traditional 3-piece wing. This is
important to me, as I would like trailerability.
Good luck!
Kip Gardner
Laboratory Manager, ODU
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmospheric Sciences
4600 Elkhorn Avenue
Norfolk, VA 23529
(757)683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Don't Drink and Park - 'Accidents' Cause People"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
A pic of my flop.The flop is folded up. Not too clear in this photo.
The attached .JPG file was created using Corel Print House.
To view the Corel Print House document, double-click on the attachment.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Highwing" <piet997(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: Untitled
>
> Note: forwarded message attached.
>
>
Prev attachment didin't work, try this.Maybe matronics doesn't accept
attachments.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What about these changes? |
Among other comments, Kip Gardner asked
whether anyone had a phone number for
Keri Ann Price.
Answer: The phone company doesn't. I just
called 411. No listing in Hampton or the surrounding
towns for either Keri Ann or Gary Price.
Oh, well.
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Holland" <iholland(at)telusplanet.net> |
Mike, I don't think the matronics server allows attachments.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: flop
>
> A pic of my flop.The flop is folded up. Not too clear in this
photo.
>
> The attached .JPG file was created using Corel Print House.
>
> To view the Corel Print House document, double-click on the
attachment.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
YOur right, but there is a place on the matronics server that you can store
and publish pics to. We do it on the tailwind list regularly.
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ian
Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flop
Mike, I don't think the matronics server allows attachments.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: flop
>
> A pic of my flop.The flop is folded up. Not too clear in this
photo.
>
> The attached .JPG file was created using Corel Print House.
>
> To view the Corel Print House document, double-click on the
attachment.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Here is the instuction of how to share file and pictures:
http://www.matronics.com/enclosures.html
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ian
Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flop
Mike, I don't think the matronics server allows attachments.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: flop
>
> A pic of my flop.The flop is folded up. Not too clear in this
photo.
>
> The attached .JPG file was created using Corel Print House.
>
> To view the Corel Print House document, double-click on the
attachment.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brad James <dogladdy(at)mindspring.com> |
I will be glad to GARY GOWER
>
>Brad,
>
>Remove YOURSELF...
>
>Just follow the instructions on the bottom of ALL
>
>Saludos
>Gary Gower
>
>--- Brad James wrote:
> Subscription:
>
>
>Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
>http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JOEL CARROLL <drcarroll_2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What about these changes? |
hi
i do have an address:
ms keri-ann price
pob 1133
north hampton,nh.03862-1133
address good as of may,2000
--- Owen Davies wrote:
>
>
> Among other comments, Kip Gardner asked
> whether anyone had a phone number for
> Keri Ann Price.
>
> Answer: The phone company doesn't. I just
> called 411. No listing in Hampton or the
> surrounding
> towns for either Keri Ann or Gary Price.
>
> Oh, well.
>
> Owen Davies
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Engineers: In the Piet manual, Q&A section, Q asks if the fin should e
offset. A answers yes. 1/2" . (1.59 degrees) As viewed from behind, do
I offset to the right or left? My Cessna has no offset. Just a bendable
tab. Thanks Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Merrill" <lagom(at)earthlink.net> |
I'm not awake yet having my first cup. First....which direction does to
prop turn. Second....rudder offset in opposite direction to counter the
prop. Am I right guys?
Merrill
Mt Dora Fl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
03/13/2001 10:05:09 AM
What engine? Corvair is reverse of aircraft engines, I don't know
about Model A.
Mike
leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon
Stefan) To: Pietenpol-List(at)matronics.com
Sent by: cc:
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat Subject: Pietenpol-List:
Fin offset
ronics.com
03/13/2001 08:46 AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list
Stefan)
Engineers: In the Piet manual, Q&A section, Q asks if the fin should
e
offset. A answers yes. 1/2" . (1.59 degrees) As viewed from behind,
do
I offset to the right or left? My Cessna has no offset. Just a
bendable
tab. Thanks Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
With an A-65 I think you'd offset the vertical stabilizer leading edge to
the left a touch, and with a Corvair, I believe it would be to the right.
Remember basic flight training when you have the left turning tendency?
You want to counter that with a little offset to try to force it to the
right a little. If you offset the vertical stabilizer leading edge to the
left it'll force the nose to the right, counter to the left-turning
tendency.
I imagine it'd be just the opposite with a Corvair.
No idea about an A-engine
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
With an A-65 I think you'd offset the vertical stabilizer leading edge to
the left a touch, and with a Corvair, I believe it would be to the right.
Remember basic flight training when you have the left turning tendency?
You want to counter that with a little offset to try to force it to the
right a little. If you offset the vertical stabilizer leading edge to the
left it'll force the nose to the right, counter to the left-turning
tendency.
I imagine it'd be just the opposite with a Corvair.
No idea about an A-engine
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What about these changes? |
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
03/13/2001 11:06:49 AM
Owen,
Thanks for taking the direct action re finding a phone #. I guess those of
us who are trying to get in touch with her will just have to wait until she
responds by mail. Bummer.
drcarroll_2000(at)yahoo.com@matronics.com on 03/13/2001 12:57:09 AM
Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: What about these changes?
--- Owen Davies wrote:
>
>
> Among other comments, Kip Gardner asked
> whether anyone had a phone number for
> Keri Ann Price.
>
> Answer: The phone company doesn't. I just
> called 411. No listing in Hampton or the
> surrounding
> towns for either Keri Ann or Gary Price.
>
> Oh, well.
>
> Owen Davies
Kip
Laboratory Manager, ODU
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmospheric Sciences
4600 Elkhorn Avenue
Norfolk, VA 23529
(757)683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Don't Drink and Park - 'Accidents' Cause People"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
GaryHaven't you ever had to crank that a model on a date with a dead battery.
That should tell you the direction of rotation.
Corky, in A model country
BUT remember in an aircraft application the butt end is in front so the
rotation is opposite from cranking.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
03/13/2001 11:47:39 AM
I haven't seen the entry door plans. The discussion seems to indicate
that the necessary strength to make up for the cut longeron is coming
from lower down in the fuse and consequently that stress has to be
transmitted there. Also, being lower, this part must be stronger. My
thought, and I'll come up with at least one solution, is that the
tension and compression on the longeron should be transmitted through
the door(s), at the same location as the severed longeron. It needs a
reliable latch and only needs to be as strong as the longeron where it
is cut. I think that it is simpler to understand the required
strength (how strong is the longeron) than to calculate the stresses
when transmitted down to the middle of the fuse side and back.
Additionally. the solution should be lighter and I think simpler.
I'll throw out some ideas in a week or so. Anyone else, please
comment or shoot at this or best of all, suggest alternate solutions.
We can collectively come up with several excellent and better
solutions if the above premise is correct.
Thanks
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
Gary,
What Corky is meeaning to say:
Where Corky comes from, a Model A is still looked at as a new car (ie you
keep it in the front yard not the back yard and you don't let the chickens
nest in them)
Kind of like you texas boys and your pickem up truck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | A debt of gratitude |
Whoever advised me to contact William Rewey on the subject of brakes, I want
to give you a big THANK YOU. Received from Bill today a photo and sketch of
his brake application and it has quickly solved my braking problem. Thanks
Bill.
Corky, building brakes in La.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
03/13/2001 02:29:02 PM
BOBKA(at)compuserve.com@matronics.com on 03/13/2001 12:39:12 PM
Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fin offset
Gary,
What Corky is meeaning to say:
Where Corky comes from, a Model A is still looked at as a new car (ie you
keep it in the front yard not the back yard and you don't let the chickens
nest in them)
Kind of like you texas boys and your pickem up truck
Chris,
Heck, down here in Va. (unofficial motto - '400 years of tradition
unhindered by progress'), we still think a "T" is a new car (what's a
"Model A" anyhoo?).
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
Laboratory Manager, ODU
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmospheric Sciences
4600 Elkhorn Avenue
Norfolk, VA 23529
(757)683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Don't Drink and Park - 'Accidents' Cause People"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Corky & Chris,
Now, I thought the whole idea of trying to crank the car on a date was to
get down on lovers lane and NOT be able to crank it! That's why the Model A
wouldn't crank - I was turning it the wrong way - OF course I didn't tell
HER that! The story there was, well, the Shrader valve was overheated and
needed to cool off - takes a couple hours.
Now as for the pick-up, that why I always drove a standard. That way I could
pop the clutch whenever she got the truck going fast enough! (This part
always depended on how she reacted to the valve story!)
Yeah, it is a wonder I ever married..... And I still don't know which way an
A turns!
Gary the Neanderthal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A debt of gratitude |
Corky,
If you like Bill's toe brakes, give me your mailing address and I'll send
you a set already made up according to his plans. I opted for heel brakes.
Dick G.
Ft. Myers, FL..
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wood Wing Struts |
Has anyone built streamlined wing struts out of wood. I know know of
a number of Piets with wood landing gear vees with straight axle, but
it seems all struts are metal.
Pretty expensive stuff and I have a bent one on my restoration
project. Buying one instead of all 4 is less painful on the
pocketbook, but it seems that wood could work.
Ideas?
Thanks
Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 2 Airspeed indicators |
I'm not really at this point yet, but was thinking today about how to
rig the tubing for dual airspeed indicators. I'd like to have and ASI
in the front and rear cockpit.
Can I simply split the line coming off the pitot tube at some point
and send it to each instrument or should I use two pitot tubes (one
on each wing) and have each instrument on its own system?
Thanks
Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: A debt of gratitude |
Hi Dick,
Things are getting better by the hour. Instead of my sending an address, how
about you sending yours so I can send you a little $$$$ for mailings and
trouble.
Corky
On the subject of wooden struts, a member has done this very successfully.
Lost his name since Brodhead but he is from Ohio. I visited with him a little
while on the strut subject. His struts are laminated with a core of 1/4
marine ply and the bread is ash. Beautiful. Also,from studying the spec on
"The Spirit of ST> LOUIS", they used round 1050 steel with balsa fairings.
This was the way I was going until an old friend found some NOS streamline
tubing and gave it to me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A debt of gratitude |
Corky,
No need, they don't weigh that much and you might not want to use them.
Wait until you get them and if you like them you can send the postage then
if you insist. Meanwhile give me your address.
DickG.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Wing Struts |
`Kirk,
I have a rather crude drawing I got from a fellow in Mich.(can't find his
name and address) and if you'd like a copy send me your address or Fax No.
DickG.
Ft. Myers, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Wing Struts |
Kirk Huizenga asked:
> Has anyone built streamlined wing struts out of wood. I know know of
> a number of Piets with wood landing gear vees with straight axle, but
> it seems all struts are metal.
At Sun 'N Fun one year, there was a Piet with wood struts
that reportedly had been flying with them for 20 years or more.
With enough effort, I might remember the owner's name, but
the plane had been built by someone else.
Also, the plane by the fabled Keri Ann Price has wood struts,
and she offered plans--more like sketches, I suppose--for
them as well as for her other mods. Maybe we'll track her
down someday.
If you're willing to forego the "streamlined" part of your request,
I even remember seeing a photo of a Piet with struts that
appeared to be fir 2X4s!
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 2 Airspeed indicators |
Kirk
The air speed indicators are what is referred to as pressure static
instruments. The air pressure increase due to the pitot tube facing the
relative wind does not cause an airflow in the tubing. "T"ing in an
additional instrument should have no affect on the other.
Have you considered the old vane type out on the jury strut? Looks old timey
and the markings can be what suits you.
How about -"TOO SLOW ,ABOUT RIGHT, WAY TOO FAST,& WOW!"
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: Kirk Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 2 Airspeed indicators
<kirkh@unique-software.com>
>
> I'm not really at this point yet, but was thinking today about how to
> rig the tubing for dual airspeed indicators. I'd like to have and ASI
> in the front and rear cockpit.
>
> Can I simply split the line coming off the pitot tube at some point
> and send it to each instrument or should I use two pitot tubes (one
> on each wing) and have each instrument on its own system?
>
> Thanks
> Kirk
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Wing Struts |
Kirk,
Go to
http://members.aol.com/bpanews.wwww.html
and scroll down to "Lift Struts of Wood?" for an old artilce in the BPA
newsletter.
Cheers,
Warren.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Wing Struts |
Kirk,
That didn't work for me either.
Try
http://members.aol.com/bpanews/www.html
click on "BPA news items" and then scroll down to the "Lift Struts of
Wood" article.
Cheers,
Warren.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Ed G.) |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Wing Struts |
The guy from Orlando Fl with the wood struts is Allen Wise. I was
amazed at their simplicity. They looked like ash about 1 1/4" X about
2 1/2" attached top and bottom with a steel strap on each side of the
strut the straps are simply bent close together at the ends and a bolt
goes through the straps and the lift strut fittings. If I remember right
the plane was built in 1963 and has over 1600 hours of air time.!!!!!
Ed G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
<kirkh@unique-software.com>
>Has anyone built streamlined wing struts out of wood.>
There is a Piet at Lakeland Fl with wood struts. They are a wood
sandwich with flat stock in the middle.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2 Airspeed indicators |
John,
Thanks for the info. I thought that was the case since it is a
"closed" system and bends or length don't really make a difference,
but all the planes I've been in have had single a ASI.
Let's all try avoiding the WOW (Vw!!) speed
Kirk
>
>Kirk
>The air speed indicators are what is referred to as pressure static
>instruments. The air pressure increase due to the pitot tube facing the
>relative wind does not cause an airflow in the tubing. "T"ing in an
>additional instrument should have no affect on the other.
>Have you considered the old vane type out on the jury strut? Looks old timey
>and the markings can be what suits you.
>How about -"TOO SLOW ,ABOUT RIGHT, WAY TOO FAST,& WOW!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Model A crank direction |
Guys,
As I recall, the left hand rested on the top of the radiator, right hand
grasped the crank handle with your fingers gripping the handle and NOT your
thumb gripping, slowly turning the crank so as to position the crank handle
at what would be about the 7 o'clock position and up against some
compression, and smartly pull up on the crank.
Not wrapping your thumb around the handle was the advised way 'cause if the
engine kicks back the crank could slip out of your hand easily and only slap
your forearm smartly and not rip off your thumb in the process.
Now, on the car installation, the flywheel is at the other end of the engine
from you as you would crank it and it would turn in a clockwise direction,
as viewed from the front of the car. And since the prop is attached at the
flywheel end of the crank it turns in a clockwise direction when viewed from
the cockpit of the Piet, or counter clockwise when propping the engine.
So you would offset the leading edge of the vertical stabilizer to the left
so it will force the nose to the right, countering the left-turning
tendency.
Rodger Childs
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: hard wire and specs |
Chris,
I received the wire and spec package last week, thanks for your great deal of
effort. The hard wire is (I believe) suitable for aircraft. The low carbon
steel wire is not. The specs contain the correct information to do the job
just right. The next order of business is finding the correct size for the
Piet. As an example, the wire size called in the plans for the tail of the
improved aircamper is B&S 14 ga. which is .064 dia and the spec for this wire
size calls for a .057 dia ferrule wire . I think .062 dia 4130 welding rod
heat treated after forming wouId be fine for the ferrule, but as always, kind
of difficult to make. BHP substituted .062 dia aircraft cable for hard wire
on the two aircampers in the museums at Oshkosh (N12937 the first improved
aircamper 1933 and N7533U the first long fuselage corvair 1964 or close).
Next subject
I flew my Piet in formation with two cubs today for 30 minutes and I tell
you, the little aircamper handles so well in the air and on the ground I
can't imagine changing it. It is truely unbelievable. Every time I taxi
back, I think this cannot really be such a fine airplane design, but it is!
Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
Model A turns the same as Continentals and Lycoming. Most engines turn
clockwise when viewed from the timing end. ( the Cockpit) The A sits back to
front in a Piet.
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fin offset
>
> With an A-65 I think you'd offset the vertical stabilizer leading edge
to
> the left a touch, and with a Corvair, I believe it would be to the right.
>
> Remember basic flight training when you have the left turning tendency?
> You want to counter that with a little offset to try to force it to the
> right a little. If you offset the vertical stabilizer leading edge to the
> left it'll force the nose to the right, counter to the left-turning
> tendency.
>
> I imagine it'd be just the opposite with a Corvair.
>
> No idea about an A-engine
>
> Gary Meadows
> Spring, TX
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Model A crank direction |
In a message dated 03/13/2001 7:54:29 PM Central Standard Time,
childsway@indian-creek.net writes:
<< So you would offset the leading edge of the vertical stabilizer to the left
so it will force the nose to the right, countering the left-turning
tendency.
Rodger Childs
Piet in progress >>
After lots and lots of propping to get 12 hours on my "A" on a test stand I
can confirm that rodger is correct on all points. Just a point of interest,
having owned two Model A's...you can't crank it the wrong way............the
crank handle will simply disengage itself !!
Don Hicks
(everything covered..final paint to go...whoopie !!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Wing Struts |
Ed G. remembered:
> The guy from Orlando Fl with the wood struts is Allen Wise. I was
> amazed at their simplicity. They looked like ash about 1 1/4" X about
> 2 1/2" attached top and bottom with a steel strap on each side of the
> strut the straps are simply bent close together at the ends and a bolt
> goes through the straps and the lift strut fittings. If I remember right
> the plane was built in 1963 and has over 1600 hours of air time.!!!!!
That's the one I saw at Sun 'N Fun, too darned many years ago.
(Really got to get to Lakeland again one of these times!)
Wasn't that also the plane where the pilot pulls on a big lever
to apply the brakes, and the bicycle-type fenders move down
to clamp pieces of hard rubber against the tires?
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A crank direction |
Have any of you Model A guys tried this trick? With your ignition off, crank
and choke the engine as much as you think it needs. Stop the crank at just
past top dead center, get in turn on the key and advance the spark lever. If
things are right it fires right up no starter. Not sure how to do that with
a mag! It sure is neat with the old truck though.
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: <DonanClara(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A crank direction
>
> In a message dated 03/13/2001 7:54:29 PM Central Standard Time,
> childsway@indian-creek.net writes:
>
> << So you would offset the leading edge of the vertical stabilizer to the
left
> so it will force the nose to the right, countering the left-turning
> tendency.
>
> Rodger Childs
> Piet in progress >>
> After lots and lots of propping to get 12 hours on my "A" on a test stand
I
> can confirm that rodger is correct on all points. Just a point of
interest,
> having owned two Model A's...you can't crank it the wrong
way............the
> crank handle will simply disengage itself !!
> Don Hicks
> (everything covered..final paint to go...whoopie !!)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Model A crank direction |
Better'n that. When I start my Model T, while engine is hot or warm, throw up
spark lever, turn key to Batt and she fires right up. To do this you MUST
have the old wooden individual coils as issued.
Corky, in Model T country
Also, a safer way to crank is to set compression on crank about 7 or 8, put
your LEFT hand under crank handle, grag a hold with your right hand on the
outside of the left front fender and proceed with a sharp pull clockwise. No
arm or hand remains in the way if she backfires. Shouldn't backfire anyway if
spark is up,retarded, and commutator is properly adjusted.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A crank direction |
This is a distraction I know, but I understand from a car mechanic friend
of mine that new cars will soon be firing up without a starter. The computer
will determine crank position, which piston is at or near TDC, then inject a
squirt of fuel, light it off, adn the engine is off and running. Ain't
computers great? They are about to learn what you guys have been doing for
years!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Wing Struts |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
03/14/2001 07:30:10 AM
I know that there is at least one. It's struts are made with a
plywood core covered by ash. I know that I've seen a drawing for
these also. Can't remember where. It might be in one of the Bingelis
books. If no one else comes up with it, I'll try to lay hands on it.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mckellars" <mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fin offset
Stefan)
>
> Engineers: In the Piet manual, Q&A section, Q asks if the fin should e
> offset. A answers yes. 1/2" . (1.59 degrees) As viewed from behind, do
> I offset to the right or left? My Cessna has no offset. Just a bendable
> tab. Thanks Leon S.
> I got to look a flying Piet over yesterday . The fin wasn't offset but the
rudder had a bendable tab. Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Wing Struts |
On the wood struts, I remember now the gentleman I met at Brodhead with the
fine Piet with wooden struts is Will Graeff from Ohio.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
Concerning the vertical fin offset... Don't you have an option of either
building in a fin offset or by building an offset into the motor mount? I
thought that the plans detail a thrust angle down and to one side in the
mount and leave the vstab true.
Joe Krzes
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | K0BLR(at)webtv.net (Ben Ramler) |
this saturday I plan on getting materials ready to build a new airframe.
I do have question for all the proud owners off flying piets. what are
your toughts about raising the wing from 20 to 24 for a little easier
entry to front cockpit?
Thanks,
Ben Ramler
Piet almost begin!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Joe,
I'm pretty sure you're right, and that would be the more elegant,
streamline way to do it. I also see folks with trim tabs on their rudders,
which would be another way of dealing with the problem, although you'd still
need to worry the downward thrust thing.
I remember in building R/C models we always angle the firewall down to the
right so we could just mount on a straight engine mount.
On the brake thing, I think I may use hydraulic heel brakes, with the
master cylinders below the floor, and small slots cut thru the floor to move
the piston in the brakes.I'd run the brake line down the inside of the gear
leg to preserve the antique look.
On the fuel tank thing, I'm thinking I may make around 12-14 gallon tank up
in the center section with a 3-4 gallon header in the nose. That way, As I
burn off fuel, my CG would actually move forward a little as opposed to a
nose only tank with the CG moving rearward a lot. Once you burn off all the
main tanks fuel, your left then with basically your VFR reserve, so you'd
better be on the ground soon. But you still get those few gallons forward
(very forward) to help with initial CG. I'm still thinking fiberglass on the
main tank....
What think ye on these ideas?
Later,
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
I thought I was going to go with the brake cyl under the floor until I
received drawings for toe brakes from Bill Rewey. If you do go with heels may
I suggest that you fab and install BEFORE building the front seat. I was
going to have to go in and tear out my seat. One reason I opted for the toes.
These brakes have been a big bottleneck but I think I'll be over that climb
in a couple of weeks. Also I'm rebuilding my centersection to have a big
hinged flop. Hing will be 3 in in rear of rear spar. That SHOULD give me
enough room to enter and exit comfortably. Keep in touch.
Corky in wet La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Concerning the vertical fin offset... Don't you have an option of either
building in a fin offset or by building an offset into the motor mount?
I
thought that the plans detail a thrust angle down and to one side in the
mount and leave the vstab true.
Joe Krzes
Spring, TX>
The down thrust should be incorporated as per plans. In my opinion, the
right thrust angle will depend on the engine.In my case, ( 0-200), a
right angle is required.
I offset the fin with a few washers under the right angle bracket. After
I flew the airplane for a while, I added a tab to the rudder.
Mike B ( Piet N687Mb ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"piet discussion"
| Subject: | Masking and painting trick |
There was some discussion a short while ago about masking and painting your
plane. Think this trick was told to me by Bob Cook , who first inspired me
to build.,,,
To stop paint from "bleeding" under a masked area, tape the area and
spray one more coat of the base/ surrounding coat. This will seal the tape
and any wicking under the masking won't matter. This will prevent the color
change from travelling unter the tape for a clean edge.
Been thinking about this cause this year is cover/paint year.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <J-M-Duprey(at)erols.com> |
Gary / Kerri-Anne Price's piet used wood struts with a piece of flat stock steel
sandwiched inside. Looks great!
Michael Brusilow wrote:
>
> <kirkh@unique-software.com>
>
> >Has anyone built streamlined wing struts out of wood.>
>
> There is a Piet at Lakeland Fl with wood struts. They are a wood
> sandwich with flat stock in the middle.
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED GRENTZER" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Wing Struts |
Actually Owen The plane has steel fenders over the wheels with cables
attached to them. when he pulls the brake lever the fenders are pulled down
against the tires. I couldn't belive it when I saw how they worked, what a
riot!!!
Ed G.
>From: "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Wing Struts
>Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:18:22 -0800
>
>
>Ed G. remembered:
>
> > The guy from Orlando Fl with the wood struts is Allen Wise. I was
> > amazed at their simplicity. They looked like ash about 1 1/4" X about
> > 2 1/2" attached top and bottom with a steel strap on each side of the
> > strut the straps are simply bent close together at the ends and a bolt
> > goes through the straps and the lift strut fittings. If I remember right
> > the plane was built in 1963 and has over 1600 hours of air time.!!!!!
>
>That's the one I saw at Sun 'N Fun, too darned many years ago.
>(Really got to get to Lakeland again one of these times!)
>Wasn't that also the plane where the pilot pulls on a big lever
>to apply the brakes, and the bicycle-type fenders move down
>to clamp pieces of hard rubber against the tires?
>
>Owen Davies
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
The idea of setting the engine mount to correct for the thrust and
procession is a good one. I have been curious how Bernard arrived at three
degrees of down thrust. He claimed in the Flying and Gliding manual that the
angle aidded the prop getting a good bite on the air in climb. I have also
been wondering about the angle of incidence of the wing.
The design seems like a natural to experiment with. The engine mount could
be made adjustable and if the cowling only attached to the mount thrust line
change wouldn't require a cowling rebuild. The parasol wing is easily
changed for incidence.
Gary and Corky
Some of the older aircraft engines "WW1" were stated in a similar manner.
The engine was fueled cold and when ready the pilot cranked like mad on a
small mag that gave a "shower of sparks" to all cylinders at once. The
cylinder in the right position fired off and the engine ran. I have watched
this procedure and some times the engine kicked back a few revs but gave in
to the cam and ran the right way around.
There ain't much new under the sun!
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fin offset
>
> Joe,
>
> I'm pretty sure you're right, and that would be the more elegant,
> streamline way to do it. I also see folks with trim tabs on their rudders,
> which would be another way of dealing with the problem, although you'd
still
> need to worry the downward thrust thing.
>
> I remember in building R/C models we always angle the firewall down to
the
> right so we could just mount on a straight engine mount.
>
>
> On the brake thing, I think I may use hydraulic heel brakes, with the
> master cylinders below the floor, and small slots cut thru the floor to
move
> the piston in the brakes.I'd run the brake line down the inside of the
gear
> leg to preserve the antique look.
>
> On the fuel tank thing, I'm thinking I may make around 12-14 gallon tank
up
> in the center section with a 3-4 gallon header in the nose. That way, As I
> burn off fuel, my CG would actually move forward a little as opposed to a
> nose only tank with the CG moving rearward a lot. Once you burn off all
the
> main tanks fuel, your left then with basically your VFR reserve, so you'd
> better be on the ground soon. But you still get those few gallons forward
> (very forward) to help with initial CG. I'm still thinking fiberglass on
the
> main tank....
>
> What think ye on these ideas?
>
> Later,
> Gary
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <J-M-Duprey(at)erols.com> |
I was just going through an old photo album, and found a a photo of a
piet I took many years ago before I knew what a Pietenpol was, Guess I
thought they were cool even then. Any how since Aircamper.org is down I
thought everyone might need a piet Photo fix.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=694997&a=12088112&p=43757537
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fuselage outline |
In the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual, the max fuselage depth is 25" and
the firewall is only 20 3/4" which produces quite a curve for the lower
longeron. In the 1933 plans, the depth is 23 3/4" and the firewall is 21
7/8". Which is more commonly built? Is the tighter curve really that much
more difficult to set up? And what is the general consensus on which design
looks better?
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage outline |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
03/15/2001 09:25:11 AM
Don't forget to consider whether you're building the short or long
version. I'm building the long, but I like the lines of the short a
little better. It's kind-of hard to form an opinion without visiting
Brodhead and asking a lot of questions. Alternatively, trace the
profile drawing of the Piet and adjust it out both ways. Redraw it
until you like it and go with that. You're not going to affect the
aerodynamics or structural integrity.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuselage outline |
Jeff,
The 1933 plans are what's called "The Improved Pietenpol Air-Camper"
Maybe Bernie found it easier to make the lower longeron with less of a
curve to ease assembly.
Anyway, the 1933 version is what we are building. I'll have to keep my
eyes open the next time I see a picture of an "early" Piet to see if there
is
any extra curve on the bottom.
Rodger Childs
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage outline |
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
03/15/2001 09:59:32 AM
Hi Everyone,
A couple of related questions:
I've heard several people mention widening the fuselage (usually by 2") at
different times. What does this do to other dimensions & hardware geometry?
I'm small (5'6" & 140 lbs. all wet), but I like the idea of a litte more
"elbow room". Also, there was an article in KitPlanes about 3-5 years ago
about a guy in FL who built 1 degree of dihedral into his wing & claimed
the plane was more stable & handled better, which makes basic sense to me
(also got rid of the 'droopy wing' look). Anyone have any ideas how you
would go about it with the 3-piece wing? I assume it would at the very
least involve selective lengthening of struts, but wouldn't wing hardware
orientation need to change a little too?
I am beginning to look over my plans with an eye towards some (hopefully
modest) modifications & would appreciate input.
Thanks!
Kip Gardner
Laboratory Manager, ODU
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmospheric Sciences
4600 Elkhorn Avenue
Norfolk, VA 23529
(757)683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Don't Drink and Park - 'Accidents' Cause People"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Fuselage outline |
I think the main reason for the redesign with the shollow arc on the lower
longerons here is that the with the earlier fuselage, you can not make the
side plywood panels from one sheet of 4 x 8 plywood. Unless you splice
near the edge, you will need two sheets. The improved 1933 design requires
only one sheet to make both side skins.
Chris Bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage outline |
Kip,
I've widened my Piet by 2" cause I tried on a GN-1 and it was tight for
me, ut I'm very wide. Now I sit in my 2" wider Piet, and it almost feels too
wide! I've got plenty of elbow room, and butt room, but if I were your size
I'd stick to the normal width. You might make a mockup of the cockpit to
prove to yourself how it fits. Going wider also makes you use more than 1/2
sheet of 4'x8' plywood too. Yes also on the fact that when you change a
dimension like this, it has a ripple effect throughout the rest of the
project. I also lengthened mine in the front of the fuselage, I wanted more
plane up front to counter my weight and that has caused the same effect.
You'll hear it till your sick, but it really is best to stick to the plans
when possible. Well, let's just say there's less thinking involved that way,
(and a lot less wasted wood......)
On the dihedral, this should make no difference in any of your fittings.
Your lift struts will be a tiny bit longer but heck you cut them to fit
anyway. You have the center secttion spar carry-through attached to the wing
panel in a butt joint with only the bolts at the cabane strut attachment
holding them together. All you really have to do is introduce a tiny amount
of bevel to the spar or carrythrough here and it'll allow the wing will have
clearance to pivot up a little past flat for your dihedral.
Remember to plan on installng jury struts. The plans don't call for it,
but you need them!
Good Luck - Make Sawdust!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage outline |
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
03/15/2001 12:31:54 PM
Gary,
Thanks for the advice, just knowing that increasing the width calls for
that much extra material gives me pause, I'll definitely be on a budget
throughout this project. Also, being a tree hugger, I want to minimize
waste. Likewise the advice re dihedral & jury struts, sounds like not too
big a deal, I'll see when I get there :-).
regards,
Kip
Laboratory Manager, ODU
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmospheric Sciences
4600 Elkhorn Avenue
Norfolk, VA 23529
(757)683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Don't Drink and Park - 'Accidents' Cause People"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Wing Struts |
ED GRENTZER replied:
> Actually Owen The plane has steel fenders over the wheels with cables
> attached to them. when he pulls the brake lever the fenders are pulled
down
> against the tires. I couldn't belive it when I saw how they worked, what a
> riot!!!
Yeah, I got a good chuckle out of it. So did Alan,
as I recall. He said they sort of worked, though.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
John Duprey said:
> Gary / Kerri-Anne Price's piet used wood struts with a piece of flat stock
steel
> sandwiched inside. Looks great!
It's been several years since I saw the plane.
Did the flat stock go all the way up the struts, or
was it just a bolt-through insert to keep the fittings
in place?
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <J-M-Duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage outline |
I have seen one built to the F&G plans the curve is in my opinion real nice
looking, gives the fuse a nice line. That being said I don't know if it is
worth the extra trouble or not. You will have to decide for yourself.
Jeff Hill wrote:
>
> In the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual, the max fuselage depth is 25" and
> the firewall is only 20 3/4" which produces quite a curve for the lower
> longeron. In the 1933 plans, the depth is 23 3/4" and the firewall is 21
> 7/8". Which is more commonly built? Is the tighter curve really that much
> more difficult to set up? And what is the general consensus on which design
> looks better?
>
> Jeff
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <J-M-Duprey(at)erols.com> |
Owen: It has been a few years for me also. In fact does anyone know if Ms. Price
still owns it? I would like to see it again. When I did see it Gary explained to
me that the steel did indeed go the entire length. You cannot see it though as
the two wooden halves were routed out for the steel so it is invisible to the
eye. Gives a nice old time look to the plane and is a less expensive option than
Streamline tubing.
Owen Davies wrote:
>
> John Duprey said:
>
> > Gary / Kerri-Anne Price's piet used wood struts with a piece of flat stock
> steel
> > sandwiched inside. Looks great!
>
> It's been several years since I saw the plane.
> Did the flat stock go all the way up the struts, or
> was it just a bolt-through insert to keep the fittings
> in place?
>
> Owen Davies
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | PIET list of websites |
Since aircamper.org is down, why don't we compile a list of all the
Aircamper websites that are out there?
Lets post them to the site.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <J-M-Duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | More piet photos |
Another photo of that piet is at:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=694997&a=12088112&p=43819952
And one more piet photo & some other great planes at my photopoint page:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=694997&a=12088112&f=0
Enjoy!
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
What dimensions are used for the steel inside the struts? Is it a flat piece
of 4130?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
As I recall it is a piece of 3/4" square tubing.
Warren
TomTravis(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> What dimensions are used for the steel inside the struts? Is it a flat piece
> of 4130?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | are some of us able to fly off less than 40 hrs? |
This brings up a question that I've had for a long time...It's said that
with a completely un tested airplane and engine design that you have to fly
off the minimum of 40 hours. Now if you're building a tried and true
design ( Pietenpol Aircamper with A-65 and Sensinich prop) wouldn't
there be a shorter fly off period? Is this up to the inspector? Do we bring
it up? Do we challenge it?
I've heard that it falls to the 20 hour mark.
What's everyones theory on this?
walt
. < I guess this is why the FAA requires 40 hours testing on a
non-certificated engine prop combo.>
Bob Cook
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | are some of us able to fly off less than 40 h |
rs?
I flew with a certified engine and prop and had a test time of 25 hours.
Didn't even have to ask.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of walter
evans
Subject: Pietenpol-List: are some of us able to fly off less than 40
hrs?
This brings up a question that I've had for a long time...It's said that
with a completely un tested airplane and engine design that you have to fly
off the minimum of 40 hours. Now if you're building a tried and true
design ( Pietenpol Aircamper with A-65 and Sensinich prop) wouldn't
there be a shorter fly off period? Is this up to the inspector? Do we bring
it up? Do we challenge it?
I've heard that it falls to the 20 hour mark.
What's everyones theory on this?
walt
. < I guess this is why the FAA requires 40 hours testing on a
non-certificated engine prop combo.>
Bob Cook
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
A friend of mine in Ottawa Co. OH. Bill Poiry, has a real nice piet he built
and he made the wood struts with the reinforce steel.
I'm not sure how he did it but I plan to visit him this weekend and I'll ask
him. They look great. I'll try to get a few pics of them and his plane and
I'll post them on my website at the "more piets and planes" area.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Warren D.
Shoun
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood struts
As I recall it is a piece of 3/4" square tubing.
Warren
TomTravis(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> What dimensions are used for the steel inside the struts? Is it a flat
piece
> of 4130?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | are some of us able to fly off less than 40 h |
rs?
If it's experimental,, 25 hours with a certified engine and 40 with any
other kind of engine. I'm quite sure that if it isn't a certified production
aircraft, then it falls under one of those hour regs. That's one of the
advantages of using a continental or franklin, 15 less hours till they cut
you loose for XC. I'll bite the bullet and keep the corvair.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Eldredge
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: are some of us able to fly off less than 40 h
rs?
I flew with a certified engine and prop and had a test time of 25 hours.
Didn't even have to ask.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of walter
evans
Subject: Pietenpol-List: are some of us able to fly off less than 40
hrs?
This brings up a question that I've had for a long time...It's said that
with a completely un tested airplane and engine design that you have to fly
off the minimum of 40 hours. Now if you're building a tried and true
design ( Pietenpol Aircamper with A-65 and Sensinich prop) wouldn't
there be a shorter fly off period? Is this up to the inspector? Do we bring
it up? Do we challenge it?
I've heard that it falls to the 20 hour mark.
What's everyones theory on this?
walt
. < I guess this is why the FAA requires 40 hours testing on a
non-certificated engine prop combo.>
Bob Cook
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage outline |
Hi Kip,
I'm a little bigger than you (6'2" and 185 lbs) and am building the long
fuselage version Pietenpol. I made my fuse 25" wide instead of 24", and
am not sure it was necessary. There is plenty of width - the length is
still a little short, even with the longer fuselage. There are a couple
of things to be aware of if you do make it wider:
1) You'll have to buy a full 4x8 sheet of plywood to skin the bottom.
This is not an insignificant cost if you are using aircraft grade
plywood. I was able to avoid this by scarfing two smaller sheets
together from plywood left over from another project in our EAA chapter,
but that was a pain in itself.
2) The seat backs and firewall also cannot be made from a 2' wide piece
of plywood.
3) The centersection must be redesigned to accomodate the wider span
between the cabane struts. The angles of the bracing wire fittings must
be changed slightly as well.
I added about 1/2 degree of dihedral to my three piece wing, primarily
to avoid the droopy wing look of the absolutely straight wing. I cut
the ends of the centersection spars at an 89-1/2 deg. angle rather than
a straight right angle to allow for the dihedral. That change of course
changed the length of the lift struts slightly, but I will add 2" to the
cabane strut length to make entry/egress easier, and that change meant
longer lift struts anyway.
The dihedral change was easy. The width change was probably not
necessary and made materials much more expensive. On my next Piet I
probably won't make it wider than the plans call for.
Good Luck,
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pietenpol fuselage outline |
Kip and Group,
My fuselage outline followed the 1933 Improved Air
Camper plans, except that the front bay was extended
six inches---as recommended by BHP himself when
lighter Continentals, etc. were to be installed. This also
gives more leg room in the front cockpit and space for
a larger fuselage nose tank. BHP cautioned that the
fuselage should not be extended more than six inches
forward when following the Improved Air Camper plans.
(He said handling would suffer in a steep slip.)
I also made my fuselage two inches wider at the cock-
pits, than the plans indicate, to allow room for extra cloth-
ing to be worn when it gets chilly and one wants to fly.
If I were to build another, I'd incorporate these changes
because I'm quite satisfied with them.
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: are some of us able to fly off less than 40 h |
rs?
In a message dated 3/15/01 4:04:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,
skycarl(at)megsinet.net writes:
> If it's experimental,, 25 hours with a certified engine and 40 with any
> other kind of engine. I'm quite sure that if it isn't a certified production
> aircraft, then it falls under one of those hour regs. That's one of the
> advantages of using a continental or franklin, 15 less hours till they cut
> you loose for XC. I'll bite the bullet and keep the corvair.
> Carl
>
>
Mine was 25 hours with a model 'A' and home made prop. I didn't say a word
otherwise on that deal. But even had it been 40, I wouldn't have minded
because I had a 50 radius, which was plenty early on. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol fuselage outline |
Graham,
Did you extend the total length of the fuselage by six inches? Also did you
raise your cabane struts?
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol fuselage outline |
Tom and Group,
My fuselage wound up being six inches longer than the
length shown on the 1933 plans. This increase was en-
tirely at the front end. Essentially, the firewall is moved
six inches forward.
My center section strut lengths follow the plans. A shal-
low door on the right side of the front cockpit would ease
entry and egress without requiring longer center section
struts. I wish I had the door because passengers require
considerable agility with the standard strut length. Some
thirty years later I know that it is feasible to incorporate a
door, but back then I was apprehensive about doing so
and didn't. Big people have a difficult time with that front
pit. The Pietenpol is a pretty small airplane and folks are
generally much bigger (and heavier) than when it was de-
signed. A friend of mine, who is rather large, sums it up:
"These airplanes were designed at a time when midgets
ruled the earth!"
Graham CF-AUN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | are some of us able to fly off less than 40 h |
rs?
Wow Doug, then there's hope. It makes sense that by 25 hrs any bugs that are
there will show up no matter what engine you have.
Is the hour assignment part of the airworthy certificate or is it a
different form? Also, how long did it take to get the airworthy certificate
application from the FAA? I got my numbers pretty quick but I'm not sure
when to write them for the application.
One last thing, how long did it take to get the A P certification so you
could sign off work on your plane?
Questions, questions, questions.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Doug413(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: are some of us able to fly off less than 40 h
rs?
In a message dated 3/15/01 4:04:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,
skycarl(at)megsinet.net writes:
> If it's experimental,, 25 hours with a certified engine and 40 with any
> other kind of engine. I'm quite sure that if it isn't a certified
production
> aircraft, then it falls under one of those hour regs. That's one of the
> advantages of using a continental or franklin, 15 less hours till they cut
> you loose for XC. I'll bite the bullet and keep the corvair.
> Carl
>
>
Mine was 25 hours with a model 'A' and home made prop. I didn't say a word
otherwise on that deal. But even had it been 40, I wouldn't have minded
because I had a 50 radius, which was plenty early on. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: are some of us able to fly off less than 40 h |
rs?
In a message dated 3/15/01 7:23:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,
skycarl(at)megsinet.net writes:
> Wow Doug, then there's hope. It makes sense that by 25 hrs any bugs that are
> there will show up no matter what engine you have.
> Is the hour assignment part of the airworthy certificate or is it a
> different form? Also, how long did it take to get the airworthy certificate
> application from the FAA? I got my numbers pretty quick but I'm not sure
> when to write them for the application.
> One last thing, how long did it take to get the A P certification so you
> could sign off work on your plane?
> Questions, questions, questions.
> Carl
>
>
Carl,
I know I just got lucky on the 25 hours; it probably should have been 40 .
The hours are part of the first page or phase (flight test phase) of the
operating limitations. After they are flown off, you use the second page or
phase two of the operating limitations from then on. All U.S. registered
airplanes have some form of operating limitations. The MIDO inspector I had
brought the airworthyness certificate with him and signed it after the
inspection; which took an hour and 15 minutes. He was very interested in
whether it was built to the plans and knew from his experience the it was a
design proven by history. I found that part very fascinating. All he
inspected was paper and didn't touch the airplane he just made comments that
he liked it and wanted a ride.
I have an A&P so I did not need to apply for a builders certificate. Not
sure how it takes.
All of the experiences I had during licensing were pleasant and easy. I
fact, I called the inspector six weeks early and he laughed and said he just
needed a couple hours notice. That is what I did. His name is Bob Smith and
he is the inspector who issued our production certificate to include the
Hawker 800XP and 1000 at Raytheon Aircraft, Where I work. I still talk to
him when he visits Raytheon. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Thanks for all the comments regarding my question. (Fin offset) Since
there are a number of variables, I believe I will build my fin with no
off set and the rudder with a couple of hard points to add a bendable
tab if needed. There is nothing more painful than holding constant
rudder pressure more than about half an hour. Thanks again. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Last Call for BPA Newsletter Reprints |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
03/16/2001 07:46:14 AM
Hear ye, hear ye,
This is the last call for reprints of the BPA newsletter. I'll post a
list next week of all who have sent $$ to verify none have gone
astray, have the copies made the end of next week and return the
originals. If you are going to order a set, let me know and get the
check in the mail now. Price again is $40 shipped in the continental
US.
Mike Bell
106 Woodcrest Lane
Gaston, SC 29053
Corvair Powered Piet under construction in the Gaston Airplane Factory
(one side of my garage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PIET list of websites |
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
03/16/2001 10:25:38 AM
bed(at)mindspring.com@matronics.com on 03/15/2001 05:05:56 PM
Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: PIET list of websites
Since aircamper.org is down, why don't we compile a list of all the
Aircamper websites that are out there?
Lets post them to the site.
Barry
Everyone,
In response to Barry's request, here are the Piet sites I know of, with a
few Corvair sites tossed in for good measure:
Brodhead Pietenpol Assoc. http://www.pietenpol.org/
A private page by a guy in MI http://www.ChestnutFarms.com/Pietenpol/index.htm
The Pietenpol Family Site http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/
The Buckeye Pietenpol Assoc. site
http://members.aol.com/bpanews/index.html
AirCamper.Org site (down?) http://www.aircamper.org/index.cfm
William Wynne's Corvair Page http://www.flycorvair.com/
CorvAIRCRAFT Site http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/
A private Corvair site (3100cc) http://www.deschutes.net/~co291/index.htm
Links to (almost) everything Corvair http://www.corvairproject.com/
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
Laboratory Manager, ODU
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmospheric Sciences
4600 Elkhorn Avenue
Norfolk, VA 23529
(757)683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Don't Drink and Park - 'Accidents' Cause People"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | are some of us able to fly off less than 40 h |
rs?
Glad someone had a good experience. Ask around and find out which FAA folks
are familiar with Experimentals. I got a guy who had never done one, and
spent more time training him (read pain and agony). He spent four hours at
the airport and we had several follow up problems that gave me heartburn. I
was allowed to apply for the repairman certificat after the 25 hours were
flown off. It took a month or so to get after sending it in. -not really a
problem since you won't need it for a year after certification.
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Doug413(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: are some of us able to fly off less than 40
h rs?
In a message dated 3/15/01 7:23:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,
skycarl(at)megsinet.net writes:
> Wow Doug, then there's hope. It makes sense that by 25 hrs any bugs that
are
> there will show up no matter what engine you have.
> Is the hour assignment part of the airworthy certificate or is it a
> different form? Also, how long did it take to get the airworthy
certificate
> application from the FAA? I got my numbers pretty quick but I'm not sure
> when to write them for the application.
> One last thing, how long did it take to get the A P certification so you
> could sign off work on your plane?
> Questions, questions, questions.
> Carl
>
>
Carl,
I know I just got lucky on the 25 hours; it probably should have been 40 .
The hours are part of the first page or phase (flight test phase) of the
operating limitations. After they are flown off, you use the second page or
phase two of the operating limitations from then on. All U.S. registered
airplanes have some form of operating limitations. The MIDO inspector I had
brought the airworthyness certificate with him and signed it after the
inspection; which took an hour and 15 minutes. He was very interested in
whether it was built to the plans and knew from his experience the it was a
design proven by history. I found that part very fascinating. All he
inspected was paper and didn't touch the airplane he just made comments that
he liked it and wanted a ride.
I have an A&P so I did not need to apply for a builders certificate. Not
sure how it takes.
All of the experiences I had during licensing were pleasant and easy. I
fact, I called the inspector six weeks early and he laughed and said he just
needed a couple hours notice. That is what I did. His name is Bob Smith
and
he is the inspector who issued our production certificate to include the
Hawker 800XP and 1000 at Raytheon Aircraft, Where I work. I still talk to
him when he visits Raytheon. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Piet Weight 16 Mar 01 |
David,
In 1970, when I completed it, my Air Camper weighed 645 lb.
empty with a Continental A65 and a 72" Flottorp wooden propel-
ler. A three-piece wing with the added weight of fittings, bolts, etc.
was used. It was covered with Grade A cotton and had a hand-
rubbed dope finish. I installed a C85-12F sans electrics in 1974
and the EW increased by a few pounds.
In 1985 I recovered it with polyester fabric weighing about 3.5
oz. per square yard, used less dope, and installed a lightweight
tailwheel. A C85-8 engine was installed (a bit lighter than the -12)
and the dry EW was 630 lbs.
So, you see, weight savings can be made with the type of cover-
ing and some details, but not very much. The additional wood re-
quired for the longer and wider fuselage won't weigh a lot. The
steel tie straps across the belly will each be two inches longer, so
the weight increase here isn't very much, either. I did, however,
beef up the landing gear/lift strut fittings for better durability when
using rough fields and this added perhaps a pound of steel to the
total. After literally thousands of landings and takeoffs from bumpy
airstrips, they have stood up well.
The weights given above reflect a "no frills" airplane with only the
"bare necessities" installed (no radio, no upholstery--only one seat
cushion, no fibreglas parts, etc.). Since then I have installed very
lightweight seat cushions, front and back, to pad my aging bones.
And I now have a little hand-held transceiver. Sheer luxury!
When I visited him in 1982, BHP himself told me that a one piece
wing could save 15 (+) pounds. Of course, one needs the working
space to build the wing as a single unit, but there are advantages
in doing so and ordinarily one doesn't remove the wings very often.
It is a good idea to remember the words of Bill Stout (Ford Trimotor
guy):
"Simplicate and add lightness!"
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | model A water pump, mag |
Hello,
Can anyone tell me the model of the water pump used in the side mount application
on the model A? Is a maytag pump still used and available?
Also I assume the mag is a left hand, what types are used most often?
Thank you
mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeane Tomblin <tombling(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | model A water pump, mag |
I have heard that Speed Queen and Maytag are the two pumps most often used.
I believe the Speed Queen pumps are still metal while the new Maytag pumps
are plastic.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
On Date: Dec 21, 1999 "Gary Meadows" wrote:
Gang,
I got all my rudder wood cut last night... then for grins, I
put my vertical stabilizer up to it... I was surprised to find a good bit
of difference (I guess about 1/2" to 5/8") in them at the top!
I then went to the plans, and did the math, the rudder is 43 1/2", and
the
measurement for the v-stab is 31". I added up the height measurements for
the tail post - 10 7/8", the horizontal stab - 1" and the 31" for the
vstab
and came up with 42 7/8". That would seem to explain why my vstab is
shorter, but am I missing something? Is the vstab shorter to account for
layers of fabric that will be beneath it? Or is this one of those areas
where you just sort of wing it and make it work? I can do that, but I was
just wondering if I had somehow overlooked something........Gary
I got the same problem and the same question but I could not find any
answers in the archives. Is there any one who knows if the plans are
wrong????
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R deCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
Yes, AirCamper.org is down. I am unable to pay for the ISP or domain name,
so it's offline for now. I am trying to set up a temporary server somewhere
to at least get the content online, who knows when. Thanks to all who have
supported in the past.
Cheers,
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/16/01 |
I'm mailing my check this morning.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
Richard,
I am a premium member of the Fokker Group Schorndorf which has a really
good website on the old Fokkers. They are out of Germany. Part of the
Premium membership is that I get a website. I have no idea how to set up a
web site nor do I ever intend set one up so I am willing to let you have
full run of it for the Aircamper if you are interested. I am not sure of
the size but I think we could weasel more space since the Piet stuff is so
closely related.
Let me know.
Chris Bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Richard, If you go to www.virtualave.com , they will give you a free
website. The only catch is that you have to put their banner on your pages.
You can sell on there and there is plenty of web space. Also, the name would
be for example, www.aircamper.virtualave.com. With Chris Bobka's web site
and virtualave, you could put links between the two and probably have more
than enough space to put on all the good stuff you have. We all miss it.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of R deCosta
Subject: Pietenpol-List: AirCamper.org
Yes, AirCamper.org is down. I am unable to pay for the ISP or domain name,
so it's offline for now. I am trying to set up a temporary server somewhere
to at least get the content online, who knows when. Thanks to all who have
supported in the past.
Cheers,
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 3/16/01 9:42:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
catdesigns(at)juno.com writes:
> Gang,
> I got all my rudder wood cut last night... then for grins, I
> put my vertical stabilizer up to it... I was surprised to find a good bit
> of difference (I guess about 1/2" to 5/8") in them at the top!
> I then went to the plans, and did the math, the rudder is 43 1/2", and
> the
> measurement for the v-stab is 31". I added up the height measurements for
>
> the tail post - 10 7/8", the horizontal stab - 1" and the 31" for the
> vstab
> and came up with 42 7/8". That would seem to explain why my vstab is
> shorter, but am I missing something? Is the vstab shorter to account for
>
> layers of fabric that will be beneath it? Or is this one of those areas
> where you just sort of wing it and make it work? I can do that, but I was
>
> just wondering if I had somehow overlooked something........Gary
>
> I got the same problem and the same question but I could not find any
> answers in the archives. Is there any one who knows if the plans are
> wrong????
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
>
Gary/Chris,
I did the same thing on three airplanes so far. It does not seem to matter
in actual operation of the aircraft. This is probably just on oversight in
the drawing. However, I was too curious to not have an answer, so here is
my opinion for the improved air camper plans only.
These plans were drawn from a completed aircraft by Orrin hoopman. The
aircraft is 12937 which is in the museum at Oshkosh. It is the first
improved aircamper. While visiting last year I looked at that very feature
and I found that the curve at the top of the vertical on that airplane
consumes 1/2 inch of the total height of the main beam in the vertical. In
other words the extension line on the drawing should be (or perhaps is) drawn
to the top of the curve. This would take a corresponding amount from the
rudder total height. Hope this is clear. I know this is somewhat of a
stretch, but I was satisfied for myself.
The more I operate my first airplane (an 'A' powered aircamper), build on
others, and examine the plans, the more amazed I become at how great this
little airplane is for the mission it was intended. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 3/17/2001 10:55:28 AM Central Standard Time,
Doug413(at)aol.com writes:
> Gang,
> > I got all my rudder wood cut last night... then for grins, I
> > put my vertical stabilizer up to it... I was surprised to find a good bit
> > of difference (I guess about 1/2" to 5/8") in them at the top!
> > I then went to the plans, and did the math, the rudder is 43 1/2", and
> > the
> > measurement for the v-stab is 31". I added up the height measurements for
> >
> > the tail post - 10 7/8", the horizontal stab - 1" and the 31" for the
> > vstab
> > and came up with 42 7/8". That would seem to explain why my vstab is
> > shorter, but am I missing something? Is the vstab shorter to account for
> >
> > layers of fabric that will be beneath it? Or is this one of those areas
> > where you just sort of wing it and make it work? I can do that, but I was
> >
> > just wondering if I had somehow overlooked something........Gary
> >
> > I got the same problem and the same question but I could not find any
> > answers in the archives. Is there any one who knows if the plans are
> > wrong????
>
I ran into the same thing and just laid out the patterns and winged it.
Doesn't seem to be too big a deal. It worked out fine.
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
Just build it and live with it.
Greg
>>> Chris Tracy 03/16 11:43 PM >>>
On Date: Dec 21, 1999 "Gary Meadows" wrote:
Gang,
I got all my rudder wood cut last night... then for grins, I
put my vertical stabilizer up to it... I was surprised to find a good bit
of difference (I guess about 1/2" to 5/8") in them at the top!
I then went to the plans, and did the math, the rudder is 43 1/2", and
the
measurement for the v-stab is 31". I added up the height measurements for
the tail post - 10 7/8", the horizontal stab - 1" and the 31" for the
vstab
and came up with 42 7/8". That would seem to explain why my vstab is
shorter, but am I missing something? Is the vstab shorter to account for
layers of fabric that will be beneath it? Or is this one of those areas
where you just sort of wing it and make it work? I can do that, but I was
just wondering if I had somehow overlooked something........Gary
I got the same problem and the same question but I could not find any
answers in the archives. Is there any one who knows if the plans are
wrong????
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | access panels/centersection |
Has anyone provided for the access panels as per the plans for the center section
in the 3-piece wing? The cabane fittings and the cable guide complicate the
problem and are not depicted in the simplified drawing provided. Is the access
panel formed around the cabane fitting? Does the cable guide go under the access
panel, ie, inside the wing? Does the lip for securing the access panel go
on top of the plywood floor of the fuel compartment? I can't seem to get a good
picture in my mind of how to proceed with it. Help! Dave Boyd, Champaign IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
yak-list(at)matronics.com, rocket-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | New Webpages on Jet830 CNC Converstion... |
Hi Listers,
A couple of people emailed me and ask if I was ever going to finish my
web site on the Jet 830 Vertical Mill CNC conversion that I did a
couple of years back. Hum, I thought, that's a good idea... So I took
a few pictures today and put up a site on the converstion. Feel free
to email me if you have questions. It was a really fun project, and
well, everyone needs a CNC mill... ;-)
Have a look at the following URL for the new Jet 830 pages:
http://www.matronics.com/cnc2
And here's a link to the older pages on the CNC converstion I did on
the Sherline milling machine:
http://www.matronics.com/cnc
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Tolerances (sp?) |
--- Chris Tracy wrote:
> I got all my rudder wood cut last night... then
> for grins, I
> put my vertical stabilizer up to it... I was
> surprised to find a good bit
> of difference (I guess about 1/2" to 5/8") in them
> at the top!
Remember:
Tolerances allowded in building:
NASA .0000001"
Airline .00001"
Comercial (Cessna etc) .0001"
Cars (body parts fit:-) .01"
Homebuilders 1/2" to 2" :-) :-)
Seriously... as close as you can.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tolerances (sp?) |
| From: | Chris Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
Fortunately I let the solid block on the vertical stabliser run 1/2 inch
above where the plans said it should end so I can deal with the exacting
tolerance required by the drawings. This is one thing I have learned,
all ways leave your self a little wiggle room.
Thanks to all who replied
Chris
Sacramento, CA
writes:
>
>
>
> --- Chris Tracy wrote:
> > I got all my rudder wood cut last night... then
> > for grins, I
> > put my vertical stabilizer up to it... I was
> > surprised to find a good bit
> > of difference (I guess about 1/2" to 5/8") in them
> > at the top!
>
> Remember:
>
> Tolerances allowded in building:
>
> NASA .0000001"
>
> Airline .00001"
>
> Comercial (Cessna etc) .0001"
>
> Cars (body parts fit:-) .01"
>
> Homebuilders 1/2" to 2" :-) :-)
>
> Seriously... as close as you can.
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
>
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AirCamper.org |
In a message dated 3/17/01 11:30:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,
skycarl(at)megsinet.net writes:
<< Richard, If you go to www.virtualave.com , they will give you a free
website. The only catch is that you have to put their banner on your pages.
You can sell on there and there is plenty of web space. Also, the name would
be for example, www.aircamper.virtualave.com. With Chris Bobka's web site
and virtualave, you could put links between the two and probably have more
than enough space to put on all the good stuff you have. We all miss it.
Carl
>>
This also applies to several other "free" sites.
See if www.tripod.com or www.webjump.com can do same thing
Webjump.com gives you 25meg of space, and virtual domain.
As usual, you get their banner though :-(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Piet Component Weights |
The following may be of interest to the group. I found it in old files,
Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam)
----------------
Hello Gang,
Quite a few years ago I prepared this for our EAA Chapter newsletter.
It may be of interest to those who are building Pietenpols. All weights
are given to the nearest quarter pound. These figures apply to C-FARH,
a Pietenpol built by a friend in 1975. He used my jigs and this a/c is a
sister to mine. It is powered by a Continental A65 - 8 and has a 3-piece
wing.20
COMPONENT UNCOVERED COVERED20
-----------
Wing panel (each) 50.5 63.5
C/Section ------ 22.5
Rudder 3.5 4.5
Vert. fin 1.5
2.25
Horiz. stab. 6.0
8.75
Elevator (each) 3.0 4.5
Aileron (each) 4.0 5.5
------------
The total weight of the doped polyester fabric cover for the above20
components was 36.5 pounds. The estimated weight of the fuse-
lage covering was about 8 pounds, giving the total weight of the20
cover at about 45 pounds. This could have been reduced a bit by
using a lighter grade of fabric.
The weight of the fuselage and main landing gear was not available.
The combined weight of lift and jury struts, strut bracing wires,
tail20
bracing wires, hardware and fittings was about 30 pounds.
The tailwheel assembly weighed 6.5 pounds and is the A-frame yoke
type with a coiled compression spring. The tailwheel itself was some-
what lighter than the Scott 6" tailwheel used on many lightplanes.
--------------------------
SUGGESTIONS FOR REDUCING WEIGHT
1. Routed spars could save 13 -15 lbs. overall. This a/c used solid20
spars (Sitka spruce, unrouted).
2. A single piece wing according to the plans would eliminate a lot20
of hardware and save about 15 lbs. (Ref. BHP himself).
3. A minimum amount of dope and paint will save some weight, but20
not very much when the entire cover weighs only 45 pounds. Keep20
the cover light and flexible with the weave of the fabric still
visible
in the finish.
4. Avoid heavy seat cushions, keep instruments small and few in num-
ber. Use a lightweight fire extinguisher.
5. Use a wooden propeller instead of a metal one and save about 10 lb.
Avoid oversize tires (6.00 - 6 or 7.00 - 6, 4 ply rating, are OK).
Old20
C-FARH uses 8.00 - 4 Cub wheels, brakes and tires.
6. Do not use an electrical system with starter, etc. unless you are
prepared to pay the penalty in performance.
7. Use lightweight magnetos such as Slick and save several pounds.A-
void fibreglas cowlings unless they are quite thin and well-made.
Both20
C-FARH and CF-AUN (my a/c) use aluminum sheet cowlings. Very20
light and simple.
8. Follow the plans! Pietenpols are perhaps overbuilt and careful
engineer-
ing could pare some weight from the structure, but this could
compro-
mise durability for pasture flying. The tail group is as light as it
is pos-
sible to make it. Some fittings should be redesigned to current
engineer-
ing standards, but that is about all one can recommend. This need
not
add any appreciable amount of weight.
The Pietenpol airplane, as designed, is a marvel of practicality and
simp-
licity that is difficult to improve upon. One can preserve this by
keeping it20
light. Watch the ounces and the pounds will be taken care of
automatically.
Bill Stout (who designed the Ford Trimotor) said it
best:20
"SIMPLICATE AND ADD LIGHTNESS!"
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tolerances (sp?) |
Gary Gower wrote:
>
>
> --- Chris Tracy wrote:
> > I got all my rudder wood cut last night... then
> > for grins, I
> > put my vertical stabilizer up to it... I was
> > surprised to find a good bit
> > of difference (I guess about 1/2" to 5/8") in them
> > at the top!
>
> Remember:
>
> Tolerances allowded in building:
>
> NASA .0000001"
>
> Airline .00001"
>
> Comercial (Cessna etc) .0001"
>
> Cars (body parts fit:-) .01"
>
> Homebuilders 1/2" to 2" :-) :-)
>
> Seriously... as close as you can.
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
>
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>
You hit it pretty close, Gary. Actually, I was surprised when I got out
of college and went to work for General Dynamics on the F-16 program. I
expected supersonic jets to be built to extremely tight tolerances, but
the standard tolerance was +/- 0.030". Tight tolerances were +/-
0.010".
Jack Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | EAA website a good reference site |
Piet builders -
EAA has recently introduced a new service on their website
www.eaa.org. Actually, you have to go to the members' site
http://members.eaa.org. You have to have a current EAA membership number,
and you can get into the "members only" site. But if you are building a
Piet, you should already be an EAA member. After all this time, EAA has
put together a resource website for builders! It has a listing of "How
to" books and videos and a note on how to get help from EAA hq (Email
Charlie Becker or Norm Petersen and the website tells how). But the best
part is that it contains a great range of reprints of articles on airplane
building over the years in the various EAA magazines. The list includes:
Basic Construction Practices
Canopy/Windshields
Cockpit/Cabin/Interior
Composite (anybody for a Tupperware Piet?)
Control Systems
Cowlings
Electrical (what's a diode?)
Engines
Fabric Covering
Firewall
Fuel Systems
Instruments & Avionics (need more than a hanky tied to a strut or a note
tied to a wrench?)
Landing Gear/Wheels/Brakes
Metal
Painting/Finishing
Propellers/Spinners
Tool Requirements
Tubing - Aluminum
Tubing - Welded
Weight and Balance
Wood
Workshop
Tune in and take advantage! For some of you, this is a good
refresher. For others who are new, this is an indepth FAQ solver. The
best part is that it fits with our basic Piet philosophy - it's free!
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Sectional charts |
Do any of you know if any Sectional or parts thereof are available on the
internet and if so, how to bring it up.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sectional charts |
might not be sectionals, but sure puts out a lot of info re.
airports, flight & fuel planning etc.
JoeC
N99621
Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Do any of you know if any Sectional or parts thereof are available on the
> internet and if so, how to bring it up.
> Corky
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Fuselage outline 03/15/01 |
Jeff:
My name is Skip Gadd, I have been building my Piet since about 1990.
When it came time to build the fuse sides my partner Gary Barger liked the
more curvy lower longeron of the f g plans so I built his and mine to those
plans since we are using Hoop Pine for the sides and it comes 3'X6' I
thought no problem.After all 4 sides were built I discovered several
differences other than the extra inch of depth. The diagonal in the pilot
pit goes the wrong way, this is important because it needs to be the way the 34
improved plans show it because the aft L/G leg attaches to the lower
longeron at the same place and the way the f g plans have it most of
the load from a hard landing would be handled only by the lower
longeron. The way the 34 plans have it the load is spread-out between the
lower longeron the plywood on the side and the top longeron. Our sides now have
X shaped diagonals in the pilot pit. There are also 2 gussets missing that are
on the 34 plans, the large gusset at the tail post and the long gusset from the
pilot seat aft at the lower longeron. The f g plans are also a little over
2" shorter then the 34 plans in fuse length I think it the first bay behind the
fire wall is where it is shorter. There are probably some other minor
differences also that I can't remember
now.
Hope this helps. Skip, 11 years Piet building
experience.----- -----
csfog(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
I put a few pics of Bill Poirys piet on my website at the more piets and
planes area at the bottom of the home page.
One of the pics is of his wood struts. He said that he used a 1 inch
piece of 6061 aluminum stock down the center
And added the two pieces of wood around it. It looks great.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Correction,,,, that was one and a half inch aluminum.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carl Loar
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood struts
I put a few pics of Bill Poirys piet on my website at the more piets and
planes area at the bottom of the home page.
One of the pics is of his wood struts. He said that he used a 1 inch
piece of 6061 aluminum stock down the center
And added the two pieces of wood around it. It looks great.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Holland" <iholland(at)telusplanet.net> |
Carl, any idea what the thickness of the aluminum was?
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Loar <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wood struts
>
> Correction,,,, that was one and a half inch aluminum.
> Carl
>
> Please visit my website at
> www.megsinet.net/skycarl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carl
Loar
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 12:34 PM
> To: Pietenpol-List(at)Matronics.Com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood struts
>
>
> I put a few pics of Bill Poirys piet on my website at the more piets
and
> planes area at the bottom of the home page.
> One of the pics is of his wood struts. He said that he used a 1
inch
> piece of 6061 aluminum stock down the center
> And added the two pieces of wood around it. It looks great.
> Carl
>
> Please visit my website at
> www.megsinet.net/skycarl
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Ian, Not sure but I'll be talking to him later this week and I'll find out
and post it.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ian Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood struts
Carl, any idea what the thickness of the aluminum was?
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Loar <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wood struts
>
> Correction,,,, that was one and a half inch aluminum.
> Carl
>
> Please visit my website at
> www.megsinet.net/skycarl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carl
Loar
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 12:34 PM
> To: Pietenpol-List(at)Matronics.Com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood struts
>
>
> I put a few pics of Bill Poirys piet on my website at the more piets
and
> planes area at the bottom of the home page.
> One of the pics is of his wood struts. He said that he used a 1
inch
> piece of 6061 aluminum stock down the center
> And added the two pieces of wood around it. It looks great.
> Carl
>
> Please visit my website at
> www.megsinet.net/skycarl
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Polyurathane glue |
It was last spring, or so. I needed to make some non structural parts for my
airplane.
No glue. No wood for that matter either.
The wood was easy, stright grain western hemlock. The glue was a little
harder. I couldn't find any epoxy locally. So I bought some of that new
Polyurathane glue.
Polyurathane is the new one part stuff, which is rapidly replacing the old
Elmer's carpenter glue.
Well, I cut and glued my parts. I had some extras, so set them aside, and
watched the glue set.
It took about 10 hours for them to set up. 24 hours for them to really set
up. And at least 7 days for a real cure of the glue.
Good strong joint !
The wood parts which were then of no use, later became tomato stakes in the
garden.
Stuck 1/2 in the dirt, and 1/2 out, the glue joint held up well all last
summer.
Fall came, Along with an october roto till. Winter came, winter
went...The wood was forgotten.
I got busy last Saturday, getting the garden spot ready for spring planting.
Under the abandoned corn stalks, and sopping wet,and covered in spring thaw
mud, were the long forgotten polyurathane glued hemlock airplane
parts.../...tomato stakes.
Well, not wishing to pass on the chance to examine these glue joints, I did
a destructive test.
With my hands, I did try to torque some of the qlue joints apart.
The wood, gray now, but still quite strong... broke, the glue joint held.
As a matter of fact, I'd say that the polyurathane glue joint was ....even
stronger.... after a year to cure, and in the muck, and under the winter,
than it was when fresh after curing in good wood for 7 days.
And every but as strong as any T-88 epoxy joint I have ever seen.
I still wouldn't vouch for polyurathane glue's use in an airplane
structure. And I would be a fool to do so. But in secret, after seeing the
strength of that wet, weathered glue joint, I wouldn't be suprised if this
new glue will soon replace t-88 as the wood airplane glue of choice.
I honestly think that I would be willing to use it in an airplane. It's
pretty good stuff.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Polyurathane glue |
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
03/20/2001 09:37:56 AM
oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com@matronics.com on 03/20/2001 01:58:44 AM
It was last spring, or so. I needed to make some non structural parts for
my
airplane.
No glue. No wood for that matter either.
The wood was easy, stright grain western hemlock. The glue was a little
harder. I couldn't find any epoxy locally. So I bought some of that new
Polyurathane glue.
Polyurathane is the new one part stuff, which is rapidly replacing the old
Elmer's carpenter glue.
Well, I cut and glued my parts. I had some extras, so set them aside, and
watched the glue set.
It took about 10 hours for them to set up. 24 hours for them to really set
up. And at least 7 days for a real cure of the glue.
Good strong joint !
The wood parts which were then of no use, later became tomato stakes in
the
garden.
Stuck 1/2 in the dirt, and 1/2 out, the glue joint held up well all last
summer.
Fall came, Along with an october roto till. Winter came, winter
went...The wood was forgotten.
I got busy last Saturday, getting the garden spot ready for spring
planting.
Under the abandoned corn stalks, and sopping wet,and covered in spring thaw
mud, were the long forgotten polyurathane glued hemlock airplane
parts.../...tomato stakes.
Well, not wishing to pass on the chance to examine these glue joints, I did
a destructive test.
With my hands, I did try to torque some of the qlue joints apart.
The wood, gray now, but still quite strong... broke, the glue joint held.
As a matter of fact, I'd say that the polyurathane glue joint was ....even
stronger.... after a year to cure, and in the muck, and under the winter,
than it was when fresh after curing in good wood for 7 days.
And every but as strong as any T-88 epoxy joint I have ever seen.
I still wouldn't vouch for polyurathane glue's use in an airplane
structure. And I would be a fool to do so. But in secret, after seeing the
strength of that wet, weathered glue joint, I wouldn't be suprised if this
new glue will soon replace t-88 as the wood airplane glue of choice.
I honestly think that I would be willing to use it in an airplane. It's
pretty good stuff.
Bob
Bob, et al,
Interesting that you should mention this, while I agree that it's not
necessarily wise to vouch for polyeurathane glue's use in airplane
structure, I will say that when I visited Andrew Pietenpol this past
summer, he was using it to build his new Piet. He said that he felt it was
important to see some seepage from the joint to be sure it was complete and
strong. Don't know yet what I'll be using on my project, but I thought this
stuff had promise.
Cheers!
Kip
Laboratory Manager, ODU
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmospheric Sciences
4600 Elkhorn Avenue
Norfolk, VA 23529
(757)683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Don't Drink and Park - 'Accidents' Cause People"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Polyurathane glue |
I've used elmer's probond thru my whole project. It's great. Easy to use and
strong as heck.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
kgardner(at)odu.edu
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Polyurathane glue
oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com@matronics.com on 03/20/2001 01:58:44 AM
It was last spring, or so. I needed to make some non structural parts for
my
airplane.
No glue. No wood for that matter either.
The wood was easy, stright grain western hemlock. The glue was a little
harder. I couldn't find any epoxy locally. So I bought some of that new
Polyurathane glue.
Polyurathane is the new one part stuff, which is rapidly replacing the old
Elmer's carpenter glue.
Well, I cut and glued my parts. I had some extras, so set them aside, and
watched the glue set.
It took about 10 hours for them to set up. 24 hours for them to really set
up. And at least 7 days for a real cure of the glue.
Good strong joint !
The wood parts which were then of no use, later became tomato stakes in
the
garden.
Stuck 1/2 in the dirt, and 1/2 out, the glue joint held up well all last
summer.
Fall came, Along with an october roto till. Winter came, winter
went...The wood was forgotten.
I got busy last Saturday, getting the garden spot ready for spring
planting.
Under the abandoned corn stalks, and sopping wet,and covered in spring thaw
mud, were the long forgotten polyurathane glued hemlock airplane
parts.../...tomato stakes.
Well, not wishing to pass on the chance to examine these glue joints, I did
a destructive test.
With my hands, I did try to torque some of the qlue joints apart.
The wood, gray now, but still quite strong... broke, the glue joint held.
As a matter of fact, I'd say that the polyurathane glue joint was ....even
stronger.... after a year to cure, and in the muck, and under the winter,
than it was when fresh after curing in good wood for 7 days.
And every but as strong as any T-88 epoxy joint I have ever seen.
I still wouldn't vouch for polyurathane glue's use in an airplane
structure. And I would be a fool to do so. But in secret, after seeing the
strength of that wet, weathered glue joint, I wouldn't be suprised if this
new glue will soon replace t-88 as the wood airplane glue of choice.
I honestly think that I would be willing to use it in an airplane. It's
pretty good stuff.
Bob
Bob, et al,
Interesting that you should mention this, while I agree that it's not
necessarily wise to vouch for polyeurathane glue's use in airplane
structure, I will say that when I visited Andrew Pietenpol this past
summer, he was using it to build his new Piet. He said that he felt it was
important to see some seepage from the joint to be sure it was complete and
strong. Don't know yet what I'll be using on my project, but I thought this
stuff had promise.
Cheers!
Kip
Laboratory Manager, ODU
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmospheric Sciences
4600 Elkhorn Avenue
Norfolk, VA 23529
(757)683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Don't Drink and Park - 'Accidents' Cause People"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Corvair piet owners, gotta question targeted at you. What size prop
dimension and pitch) are you using and are you happy with what youre
using? I want to go with a cruise prop and have been kicking sizes around
from the formulas in Eric Cluttons book.
Thanks,
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
| Subject: | FPL-16A epoxy adhesive |
All:
I'm planning on using FPL-16A adhesive to laminate my Douglas Fir wing
spars. Have any of you had experience with this adhesive and would you
possibly have any pointers to share when using it?
Thanks,
Mark Boynton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <J-M-Duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Preping Aluminum |
Hi gang: I am painting some Aluminum parts ,no not for my piet, but I
figure it is relevant to Piet building. Anyhow... I know the aluminum,
should be etched first, but I don't know what to use or how to do it.
Can anybody fill me in on the art of etching aluminum???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <J-M-Duprey(at)erols.com> |
Hey Carl I am not able to get into your Web Site, I bet I am not alone. Any
suggestions?
Carl Loar wrote:
>
> A friend of mine in Ottawa Co. OH. Bill Poiry, has a real nice piet he built
> and he made the wood struts with the reinforce steel.
> I'm not sure how he did it but I plan to visit him this weekend and I'll ask
> him. They look great. I'll try to get a few pics of them and his plane and
> I'll post them on my website at the "more piets and planes" area.
> Carl
>
> Please visit my website at
> www.megsinet.net/skycarl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Warren D.
> Shoun
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 5:26 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood struts
>
>
> As I recall it is a piece of 3/4" square tubing.
> Warren
>
> TomTravis(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > What dimensions are used for the steel inside the struts? Is it a flat
> piece
> > of 4130?
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Emch" <emchair(at)cros.net> |
Hi list,
I'm getting ready to run my A-65 on my Piet for the first time. I'm not into electrics
at all. Hence the Piet and the A-65! I have a very elementary question.
I'm using the old Case mags and a typical mag switch. Does anybody know
what would constitute a good ground? Thanks ahead of time for any help.
Don Emch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <blueskyaviation(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Preping Aluminum |
John,
We use AFS etch, after the etching there is a two part primer used before
top-coating.
Noel Simmons
Blue Sky Aviation
www.blskyav.com
blueskyaviation(at)mcn.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Duprey" <J-M-Duprey(at)erols.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Preping Aluminum
>
> Hi gang: I am painting some Aluminum parts ,no not for my piet, but I
> figure it is relevant to Piet building. Anyhow... I know the aluminum,
> should be etched first, but I don't know what to use or how to do it.
> Can anybody fill me in on the art of etching aluminum???
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Hey John,,, wonder what the deal is. Here is another link you might try.
http://members.core.com/~skycarl/
You might have to type it in to your browser instead of linking from here.
Let me know if it works.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Duprey
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Carl's web site
Hey Carl I am not able to get into your Web Site, I bet I am not alone. Any
suggestions?
Carl Loar wrote:
>
> A friend of mine in Ottawa Co. OH. Bill Poiry, has a real nice piet he
built
> and he made the wood struts with the reinforce steel.
> I'm not sure how he did it but I plan to visit him this weekend and I'll
ask
> him. They look great. I'll try to get a few pics of them and his plane and
> I'll post them on my website at the "more piets and planes" area.
> Carl
>
> Please visit my website at
> www.megsinet.net/skycarl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Warren D.
> Shoun
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 5:26 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood struts
>
>
> As I recall it is a piece of 3/4" square tubing.
> Warren
>
> TomTravis(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > What dimensions are used for the steel inside the struts? Is it a flat
> piece
> > of 4130?
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: magneto ground |
In a message dated 3/20/01 4:40:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, emchair(at)cros.net
writes:
> I'm getting ready to run my A-65 on my Piet for the first time. I'm not
> into electrics at all. Hence the Piet and the A-65! I have a very
> elementary question. I'm using the old Case mags and a typical mag switch.
> Does anybody know what would constitute a good ground? Thanks ahead of
> time for any help.
> Don Emch
>
>
>
Don,
The following applies to each mag individually. The body (aluminum case) of
each mag should be electrically bonded (metal to metal contact usually at the
mounting point) to the engine case. The 'P' lead (a wire tap off of the
primary (low voltage) coil winding) from each mag should run through a wire
to the mag switch. When the switch is on, the circuit is open (mag 'P' lead
not grounded) mag is hot. When the switch is off, the circuit is closed (mag
'P' lead grounded) mag is cold. Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Emch" <emchair(at)cros.net> |
Thanks for the help Doug. I've seen pictures of your Piet, very nice! Anybody
know of a competitive source for unshielded plugs for an A-65?
Don Emch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Don,
My mentor suggested this place for plugs ( 18mm) amd all the old time wires
and clips.
http://www.magnetoparts.com/
really interesting site.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <emchair(at)cros.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A-65 plugs
>
> Thanks for the help Doug. I've seen pictures of your Piet, very nice!
Anybody know of a competitive source for unshielded plugs for an A-65?
> Don Emch
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED GRENTZER" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | www.aircamper.org |
I would like to thank Richard DeCosta and everyone else who was involved
in putting together and getting www.aircamper.org on the internet. I would
have written him directly but I don't have his Address. I've been into my
Piet project for a year now, it is my first attempt at a homebuilt. I have
literally spent hours studying the Image Library on the site. If a picture
is worth a thousand words then I got tons of information that I needed from
that site. Hopefully it will be available for other newbies in the future.
Thanks again
Ed G. Florida
Almost on it's gear!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Malley <jgmalley(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FPL-16A epoxy adhesive |
I used FPL-16A throughout my project during the '80s. It fills small
gaps well, penetrates well and is, like others, strong. The mix is 10:1,
I used an eyedropper for the hardener and a monodose medicine dropper
for the resin to measure small amounts into plastic cups. Though the
instructions state that the mix is critical, my samples tested well even
when off by 25%. The mix works best between 70 and 85 degrees, too low
and it takes days to cure - though the samples done at 50 degrees are
adequately strong - and too high it sets too fast. Normally you have
about 45 minutes of working time. It has an okay odor but it is prudent
to have ventilation for most chemicals. Clean-up can be done with
turpentine. The glue is oily, penetrates wood and clothing equally well;
the viscosity is about that of extra heavy cream. I did a test sample on
pieces of wood 1/16 inch apart and the adhesive still holds. I have used
the glue on my propellers as well and have never seen a sign of
delamination. Overall, an excellent adhesive; I've since used T-88 and
like that as well.
Jim Malley
mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:
>
>
> All:
>
> I'm planning on using FPL-16A adhesive to laminate my Douglas Fir wing
> spars. Have any of you had experience with this adhesive and would you
> possibly have any pointers to share when using it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark Boynton
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello Piets
I almost finish the landing gear, but i have a
problem with the wheels, the plans call for 2 degrees
with the struts closed, my wheels are about 1 and 2
degrees, that is about 3/16inch wrong on the upper
part of the tires , i have been checking all , all is
ok, except the axles, so, with your experience what do
you think, i have to cut and reweld the axles?, or can
i let with this mistake?
Thanks for your comments.
Saludos desde Mexico
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
| Subject: | Re: FPL-16A epoxy adhesive |
Jim,
Thanks for the info - very helpful.
Mark
>
> I used FPL-16A throughout my project during the '80s. It fills small
> gaps well, penetrates well and is, like others, strong. The mix is 10:1,
> I used an eyedropper for the hardener and a monodose medicine dropper
> for the resin to measure small amounts into plastic cups. Though the
> instructions state that the mix is critical, my samples tested well even
> when off by 25%. The mix works best between 70 and 85 degrees, too low
> and it takes days to cure - though the samples done at 50 degrees are
> adequately strong - and too high it sets too fast. Normally you have
> about 45 minutes of working time. It has an okay odor but it is prudent
> to have ventilation for most chemicals. Clean-up can be done with
> turpentine. The glue is oily, penetrates wood and clothing equally well;
> the viscosity is about that of extra heavy cream. I did a test sample on
> pieces of wood 1/16 inch apart and the adhesive still holds. I have used
> the glue on my propellers as well and have never seen a sign of
> delamination. Overall, an excellent adhesive; I've since used T-88 and
> like that as well.
>
> Jim Malley
>
> mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > All:
> >
> > I'm planning on using FPL-16A adhesive to laminate my Douglas Fir wing
> > spars. Have any of you had experience with this adhesive and would you
> > possibly have any pointers to share when using it?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mark Boynton
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: landing gear |
I think this is an easy fix. Adjust the length of the bad telescoping
bungee tube. Do this by grinding/ machining the tube end where the tubes
butt together , a very little at a time.
In construction , what I did was to have the plane upside down. Then
assemble the "V" pieces. now clamp a streight edge to both axels, so you
know they're streight. If you put the right amount of spacing in the
telescoping tubes per print, it pretty much has to be right.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "javier cruz" <javcr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: landing gear
>
> Hello Piets
> I almost finish the landing gear, but i have a
> problem with the wheels, the plans call for 2 degrees
> with the struts closed, my wheels are about 1 and 2
> degrees, that is about 3/16inch wrong on the upper
> part of the tires , i have been checking all , all is
> ok, except the axles, so, with your experience what do
> you think, i have to cut and reweld the axles?, or can
> i let with this mistake?
> Thanks for your comments.
> Saludos desde Mexico
>
>
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FPL-16A epoxy adhesive |
Where do I find this "wonder glue" ?What stores carry it ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
A bunch of us in Kansas are using Aeropoxy because our local wood
guru/supplier sells and recommends it. As long as it hasn't"t set up it
cleans up with soap and water. Seems to me it must be easier on the
liver than a glue that cleans up with turpentine. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: landing gear |
In a message dated 3/21/01 10:01:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, javcr(at)yahoo.com
writes:
> Hello Piets
> I almost finish the landing gear, but i have a
> problem with the wheels, the plans call for 2 degrees
> with the struts closed, my wheels are about 1 and 2
> degrees, that is about 3/16inch wrong on the upper
> part of the tires , i have been checking all , all is
> ok, except the axles, so, with your experience what do
> you think, i have to cut and reweld the axles?, or can
> i let with this mistake?
> Thanks for your comments.
> Saludos desde Mexico
>
>
>
What kind of wheels do you have? spoke or balloon. It is probably better to
live with the one degree difference than to try reworking. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter Copies |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
03/23/2001 07:37:41 AM
I'm finally going to get the newsletter to Kinkos to be copied Monday.
In case I missed someone, here is a list of the checks I received and
the EMails from the last couple of days promising checks.
Checks received:
S.R. Marinucci Dover, DE
David Scott Washington, IL
Allan Macklem Elkhorn, NE
Joel Carroll Skokie IL
Kip Gardner Norfolk, VA
Leon Stefan Hutchinson, KS
Roger Childs Bandera, TX
James Cooper Youngsville, LA
David Matthews Retsof, NY
Steven Mason Delhi, NY
Chris Tracy Carmichael, CA
Dean Elliott Pampa, TX
Michael Conkling Pretty Prarie, KS
Stephen Eldredge Provo, UT
Walt Snyder Newprot Beach, CA
Charles Gantzer Wichita, KS
Henry Williams Huntington, NY
Gary Meadows Spring, TX
Robert Boatright Tulsa, OK
B. LeFebvre Val D'Or QC Canada
M.W. Paxton, IV Lexington, VA
Donald Mosher Neenah, WI
Eugene Hubbard San Diego, CA
Mike Ellenberger Butler, PA
Gregory Bowers Marion KS
Monty Graves Iberia, MO
Robert Bush Lexington, TN
Edward Grentzer Palm Harbor, FL
Checks Expected:
Mark McKellar Mt. Pleasant,TX
Mike - 'the checks in the mail' or will be within the hour. Thanks
for
the effort to provide the complete set. 73's, Dick
Corky
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
"Rollin Young"
Juneau
Larry Reiss
Omaha NE reiss_machinist(at)yahoo.com
Randy Stockberger
stockberger(at)proaxis.com
George Manthe
Port Jefferson, NY 11777-1206
Tony, Geri and Jarrah"
New South Wales, Australia
That's the list. 36 copies plus 1 for me and 1 for the EAA. If I
missed anyone, please sound off NOW.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
| Subject: | Re: FPL-16A epoxy adhesive |
Dmott9,
I'm mail ordering mine from Aircraft Spruce. Visit their Web site for more
details (www.aircraftspruce.com).
I've never used it before but I here lots of good things about it.
Mark
>
> Where do I find this "wonder glue" ?What stores carry it ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Impulse Coupling for Eisemann AM-4 |
Hey gang,
I'm collecting up parts for my Continental A65, and I have two Eisemann
mags being shipped but no impulse coupling. Does anyone out there have an
impulse coupling for an AM-4 mag or know of one for sale? Any info/leads are
appreciated!
Thanks,
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mac Zirges" <macz(at)netbridge.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Last Call for BPA Newsletter Reprints |
Hello Mike. As usual, I'm playing catch-up but I would like to get a set of
the BPA newsletters. I am mailing a check out today to you.
Thanks,
Mac Zirges
P.O. Box 938
Newport, OR 97365
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bell <mbell(at)sctcorp.com>
Date: Friday, March 16, 2001 5:16 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Last Call for BPA Newsletter Reprints
>
>
>Hear ye, hear ye,
>
>This is the last call for reprints of the BPA newsletter. I'll post a
>list next week of all who have sent $$ to verify none have gone
>astray, have the copies made the end of next week and return the
>originals. If you are going to order a set, let me know and get the
>check in the mail now. Price again is $40 shipped in the continental
>US.
>
>Mike Bell
>106 Woodcrest Lane
>Gaston, SC 29053
>
>Corvair Powered Piet under construction in the Gaston Airplane Factory
>(one side of my garage)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hofmann" <johnh(at)kencook.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter Copies |
Mike,
My check and address should be there any minute.
John Hofmann
Ken Cook Co.
9929 W. Silver Spring Dr.
Milwaukee, WI 53225
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"piet discussion"
| Subject: | how big is a garage? |
Here is my next strange request... I'm building a Pietenpol in a 10x20ft
basement right now. My first project, a Fisher 404, was built here. It was
rigged by carrying it out of the basement doors, piece by piece , and
assembling out on the lawn, and brought back in when done to cover, then
back outside to paint, blah, blah, blah.
With the Pietenpol, I'm just about ready to cover, so in order to get it to
a place where I can rig it, a basement wall has to go to get the wing
outside, and once it's outside, I wanted to be able to assemble and rig it
in my new imaginary garage. I've started the paper trail with building
permits, variances, fees. and because of size limitations being too close to
a septic tank, it's going to be not what I wanted for space, but I don't
have any choice.
Heres my question...although the garage can be 20' front to back,,,it can
only be 10ft wide ( outside dimentions). How wide is a standard garage?
And how wide is a standard garage roll up door?
Does anyone out there work in a 10ft wide garage?
thanks
walt
ps walts airplane factory has to move
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Wilcox" <CraigWilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: how big is a garage? |
Walt - I work in a 12 x 19 foot garage, but shelves take up 2' along one
wall. No big problems, but I store large finished things in a pal's 30 x 60
race car garage.
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: how big is a garage?
>
> Here is my next strange request... I'm building a Pietenpol in a 10x20ft
> basement right now. My first project, a Fisher 404, was built here. It
was
> rigged by carrying it out of the basement doors, piece by piece , and
> assembling out on the lawn, and brought back in when done to cover, then
> back outside to paint, blah, blah, blah.
> With the Pietenpol, I'm just about ready to cover, so in order to get it
to
> a place where I can rig it, a basement wall has to go to get the wing
> outside, and once it's outside, I wanted to be able to assemble and rig it
> in my new imaginary garage. I've started the paper trail with building
> permits, variances, fees. and because of size limitations being too close
to
> a septic tank, it's going to be not what I wanted for space, but I don't
> have any choice.
> Heres my question...although the garage can be 20' front to back,,,it can
> only be 10ft wide ( outside dimentions). How wide is a standard garage?
> And how wide is a standard garage roll up door?
> Does anyone out there work in a 10ft wide garage?
> thanks
> walt
> ps walts airplane factory has to move
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: how big is a garage? |
--- walter evans wrote:
>
> Heres my question...although the garage can be 20'
> front to back,,,it can
> only be 10ft wide ( outside dimentions). How wide
> is a standard garage?
standard is about 14 ft. a door is 9 ft wide by 7
high.
> ps walts airplane factory has to move
make it 10 by 35. then you can build a 1 piece wing
>
-----------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: how big is a garage? |
Single car garages are 12' x 24, double car, 24' x 24' typically.
-dennis (ex-owner of 24' x 24' garage/shop)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | how big is a garage? |
Walt, I've got a 14x19 old time flat roof one car garage. I built my
modified condor in there and had room to cover and paint.
I've been building my piet in the basement, livingroom/diningroom, and I'm
finally moving the fuse out to the garage so I can assemble the wings
upstairs. I would at least build a 15x20 at the very minimum. I'm sure
you'll want the extra 5 ft width.
That would give you the room for a roll up door also.
Good luck.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of walter evans
Subject: Pietenpol-List: how big is a garage?
Here is my next strange request... I'm building a Pietenpol in a 10x20ft
basement right now. My first project, a Fisher 404, was built here. It was
rigged by carrying it out of the basement doors, piece by piece , and
assembling out on the lawn, and brought back in when done to cover, then
back outside to paint, blah, blah, blah.
With the Pietenpol, I'm just about ready to cover, so in order to get it to
a place where I can rig it, a basement wall has to go to get the wing
outside, and once it's outside, I wanted to be able to assemble and rig it
in my new imaginary garage. I've started the paper trail with building
permits, variances, fees. and because of size limitations being too close to
a septic tank, it's going to be not what I wanted for space, but I don't
have any choice.
Heres my question...although the garage can be 20' front to back,,,it can
only be 10ft wide ( outside dimentions). How wide is a standard garage?
And how wide is a standard garage roll up door?
Does anyone out there work in a 10ft wide garage?
thanks
walt
ps walts airplane factory has to move
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <J-M-Duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: how big is a garage? |
Hi Walt: 12+ feet is the norm for a single car garage but 10' will work. You wont
get a Ford Expedition in there but it would be fine for most vehicles. And adequate
for your true purpose. A low cost option would be a "Cover it" instant garage.
it is
considered a temporary building so most towns do not require any permit. I believe
a
12' x 20' runs about $600. They make buildings up to hangar size. My EAA chapter
bought one big enough for 3 planes. Not a bad cost saving option.
John D.
walter evans wrote:
>
> Here is my next strange request... I'm building a Pietenpol in a 10x20ft
> basement right now. My first project, a Fisher 404, was built here. It was
> rigged by carrying it out of the basement doors, piece by piece , and
> assembling out on the lawn, and brought back in when done to cover, then
> back outside to paint, blah, blah, blah.
> With the Pietenpol, I'm just about ready to cover, so in order to get it to
> a place where I can rig it, a basement wall has to go to get the wing
> outside, and once it's outside, I wanted to be able to assemble and rig it
> in my new imaginary garage. I've started the paper trail with building
> permits, variances, fees. and because of size limitations being too close to
> a septic tank, it's going to be not what I wanted for space, but I don't
> have any choice.
> Heres my question...although the garage can be 20' front to back,,,it can
> only be 10ft wide ( outside dimentions). How wide is a standard garage?
> And how wide is a standard garage roll up door?
> Does anyone out there work in a 10ft wide garage?
> thanks
> walt
> ps walts airplane factory has to move
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"piet discussion"
| Subject: | thanks for the garage inputs |
Thanks guys, for the comments on garages. Glad to hear more if you got
them.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | How big is a basement? |
Walt -
I found my "almost completed" Piet in a barn where it had been for some 30
years (ever hear that story before?) only about 5 miles from my
house. Seems that the fellow who was building it died just before
completion, so the family put it in the barn. One of the first things I
did was to compare the airplane to the plans. I found that the ailerons
extended 2 bays inward more than the plans called for. Why extra long
ailerons? After discounting the comments of friends that it would increase
the rate of roll and give Shaun D Tucker a run for his money, George Rotter
(who just flew his new Sonex this week) mused that he knew the guy who had
built it. George was building a Fly Baby at the time, which accounts for
the wooden Fly Baby gear on my Piet.
The guy was building the Piet in his basement. Well, as you know if you
have ever bumped your head on the basement stairwell ceiling, there is
always a "notch" in the basement ceiling where the stairwell is built. So,
to get the wings out of the basement past the ceiling obstruction, the guy
had to extend the aileron cutout in each wing. George says he helped carry
the wings out of the basement to the backyard. After the two wings were on
sawhorses in the backyard, George asked about the extra aileron
cutouts. The fellow scratched his head a bit and said "Well, I guess I
will just fill them with aileron!"
Just shows what Piet builders will do to survive and extend the species. A
10 foot wide garage? Go for it!, Walt. You may have to turn the wings
vertical to work on them, but there has to be a way.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How big is a basement? |
Doc,
Ain't life grand? Just shows that in the journey of life , it's not the
destination,,,,,but the journey itself!
I love hearing stories like that. Now I'm pumped up.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Mosher" <docshop(at)tds.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: How big is a basement?
>
> Walt -
>
> I found my "almost completed" Piet in a barn where it had been for some 30
> years (ever hear that story before?) only about 5 miles from my
> house. Seems that the fellow who was building it died just before
> completion, so the family put it in the barn. One of the first things I
> did was to compare the airplane to the plans. I found that the ailerons
> extended 2 bays inward more than the plans called for. Why extra long
> ailerons? After discounting the comments of friends that it would
increase
> the rate of roll and give Shaun D Tucker a run for his money, George
Rotter
> (who just flew his new Sonex this week) mused that he knew the guy who had
> built it. George was building a Fly Baby at the time, which accounts for
> the wooden Fly Baby gear on my Piet.
>
> The guy was building the Piet in his basement. Well, as you know if you
> have ever bumped your head on the basement stairwell ceiling, there is
> always a "notch" in the basement ceiling where the stairwell is built.
So,
> to get the wings out of the basement past the ceiling obstruction, the guy
> had to extend the aileron cutout in each wing. George says he helped
carry
> the wings out of the basement to the backyard. After the two wings were
on
> sawhorses in the backyard, George asked about the extra aileron
> cutouts. The fellow scratched his head a bit and said "Well, I guess I
> will just fill them with aileron!"
>
> Just shows what Piet builders will do to survive and extend the species.
A
> 10 foot wide garage? Go for it!, Walt. You may have to turn the wings
> vertical to work on them, but there has to be a way.
>
> Doc Mosher
> Oshkosh USA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <J-M-Duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: how big is a garage? |
Walt I forgot to mention in my earlier reply, that your local overhead door company
cam
make a door any size you want at competitive prices.
John Duprey wrote:
>
> Hi Walt: 12+ feet is the norm for a single car garage but 10' will work. You
wont
> get a Ford Expedition in there but it would be fine for most vehicles. And adequate
> for your true purpose. A low cost option would be a "Cover it" instant garage.
it is
> considered a temporary building so most towns do not require any permit. I believe
a
> 12' x 20' runs about $600. They make buildings up to hangar size. My EAA chapter
> bought one big enough for 3 planes. Not a bad cost saving option.
>
> John D.
>
> walter evans wrote:
>
> >
> > Here is my next strange request... I'm building a Pietenpol in a 10x20ft
> > basement right now. My first project, a Fisher 404, was built here. It was
> > rigged by carrying it out of the basement doors, piece by piece , and
> > assembling out on the lawn, and brought back in when done to cover, then
> > back outside to paint, blah, blah, blah.
> > With the Pietenpol, I'm just about ready to cover, so in order to get it to
> > a place where I can rig it, a basement wall has to go to get the wing
> > outside, and once it's outside, I wanted to be able to assemble and rig it
> > in my new imaginary garage. I've started the paper trail with building
> > permits, variances, fees. and because of size limitations being too close to
> > a septic tank, it's going to be not what I wanted for space, but I don't
> > have any choice.
> > Heres my question...although the garage can be 20' front to back,,,it can
> > only be 10ft wide ( outside dimentions). How wide is a standard garage?
> > And how wide is a standard garage roll up door?
> > Does anyone out there work in a 10ft wide garage?
> > thanks
> > walt
> > ps walts airplane factory has to move
> > -----------------------------------------------------
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R deCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | AirCamper.org nearly online again |
I am a few days away from launching the new AirCamper.org (without the
domain name, until I get some cash), but the site will be online!
Anyway... there are a LOT of guys on this list who know a LOT more about
Piets than I do, so I would like to ask for a few willing volunteers to help
get the image library finished. Basically, I have 456 images in a database
that are stored by filename. I also created category and description fields
that need filling. Basically I need a few people to go to the extranet I've
set up and look at the images and add descriptions and categorize them.
Having the description and categories in there will make it a LOT simpler to
find the images we all need.
Any interested (and qualified :) persons please email me directly.
Thanks,
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R deCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
The site is now available, though not through the domain name. To get to the
new site, go to http://aircamper.no-ip.com/ I am incrementally bringing the
site back. What is back online now is the image library (soon to be
thoroughly searchable), mpeg videos, building tips and supplier list. To
come shortly are the sounds, plan error list, getting started and faq (I
need hel with the faq, so if anyone cares to contribute a faq, email me).
http://aircamper.no-ip.com/
Once I get the cash together, the real domain name will be available again.
Cheers,
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"piet discussion"
| Subject: | just went to the fridge for some legal documents |
Thought I'd pass along this tip that someone gave me years ago. Use it if
you want , delete it if you don't.
This is the poor mans safety deposit box. I never had the time or money to
get a safety deposit box, so a firemen friend told me about this,,,,,put
your important papers ( will, insurance policies, etc.) in an envelope, and
put that in a plastic bag. Now put that in the freezer . Any fireman will
tell you that if a house burns to the ground, and you go to the basement
full of ashes, you'll always find the fridge. Open the freezer, and it will
still be full of ice.
My tidbit for today
walt
ps talked with my mentor today (D.L.) about struts and other stuff, and now
I'm psyched again!
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Donations for AirCamper.org? |
Richard,
If you'd publish your mailing address, I'd like to send you a check to
help with expenses associated with the Aircamper.org website. I can't tell
you how many times that I've used the images on your website for reference
or just inspiration! Heck, I think I was the first person to mention missing
it to the rest of the Piet gang here - that proves how much I used it!
To the rest of the Piet-builders: If you use Richard's site as much as I
do, then maybe you'd like to help Richard with this. It isn't fair to expect
Richard to provide this service to us from his own pocket! Matt has to
solicit occasionally for the list-server, I think it's only fair that
Richard get some help as well! I'd think $10.00 or so would help a lot!
Thanks again Richard, and good luck - I hope that it all gets back online
soon!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi gang:
My contribution will go out as soon as I get a name & address from
Richard. This has been a great place for me too. I'm a slow builder of a
piet and am glad to have the resources. Thanks, Ryder Olsen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R deCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Donations for AirCamper.org? |
For those interested:
Richard deCosta
369 Gorham Rd.
Scarborough, ME 04074
You could also use PayPal. Its a sort of internet banking service. They give
you $5 just for signing up. To do that, use the paypal link on the top right
of the page http://aircamper.no-ip.com/
$70 will be used to buy the domain name for another 2 years, and any extra
will go toward the ISP and a video capture card so I can put all of my Piet
videos online in Mpeg, RealVideo or Quicktime format (I have three 1-hour
VHSs!, plus my TV interview).
Cheers!
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Donations for AirCamper.org?
>
> Richard,
>
> If you'd publish your mailing address, I'd like to send you a check to
> help with expenses associated with the Aircamper.org website. I can't tell
> you how many times that I've used the images on your website for reference
> or just inspiration! Heck, I think I was the first person to mention
missing
> it to the rest of the Piet gang here - that proves how much I used it!
>
> To the rest of the Piet-builders: If you use Richard's site as much as I
> do, then maybe you'd like to help Richard with this. It isn't fair to
expect
> Richard to provide this service to us from his own pocket! Matt has to
> solicit occasionally for the list-server, I think it's only fair that
> Richard get some help as well! I'd think $10.00 or so would help a lot!
>
> Thanks again Richard, and good luck - I hope that it all gets back online
> soon!
>
> Gary Meadows
> Spring, TX
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
I will be driving my Taurus wagon from Oshkosh to Sun 'n' Fun in
Lakeland. I leave Oshkosh early Friday morning, April 6 and arrive in
Lakeland on Saturday noon. I will be departing Lakeland early on Friday
morning , April 13, with a stop at William Wynne's place in Daytona, and
plan to be in Oshkosh on Saturday night (Easter is the next day).
Each year, some of us from Wisconsin rent a two-bedroom / two-bath / full
kitchen condo that sleeps six (more sometimes with air mattresses, since
occasionally we take in strays). We are all older guys who don't have a
need to prove our manliness by sleeping in a tent. The other cheeseheads
are flying down, but I have engine parts to bring home.
If any Piet people need a ride (and are near my route) let me know. If any
Piet people need a decent place to stay (with a pool), let me know. Share
expenses.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
Doc,
Do you have room for three more? I had planned to throw a tent in the back
of the plane but sleeping indoors sounds better.
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com> |
Ditto on the usefulness of the site and the contribution. Dave Boyd Champaign IL
From: ToySat(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: help
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 05:36:34 EST
-- Pietenpol-List message posted by: ToySat(at)aol.com
Hi gang:
My contribution will go out as soon as I get a name address from
Richard. This has been a great place for me too. I'm a slow builder of a
piet and am glad to have the resources. Thanks, Ryder Olsen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
I'm about ready to start setting up the rigging for my rudder and
elevators. At 1600 pounds Cap. the 16S (10-32 or 3/16" thread)
t-buckles look plenty strong to me but they don't test as high as the cable.
Is that the size most Piets are useing or are they going the the heavier
1/4" 22S T-buckles. Almost ordered some 16s this morning but thought it best
to ask first. Thanks in advance.
Ed G.
P.S. I will be at Sun & Fun Lakeland Fl. on Mon April 9th and Tues April
10th. If there will be any Piet People there on those two days I would love
to meet with them. Let me know, maybe we could set up a meeting time and
place.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | my check is in the mail |
My meager check will be in the mail tomorrow.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
Ed Grentzer This is Dale Johnson & Greg & I used the 10-32
turnbuckles on our pete . For all the tail feathers & control cables
also the cross bracing on the cabine struts. I turned the barrels out of
1/4" hex brass. We did a pull test to destruction & they failed at
around 1300 pounds. I feel very safe with this setup and they look
good.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Try the wood working tent any day, it's Piet headquarters.
Dick N.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Grentzer [SMTP:flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
I'm about ready to start setting up the rigging for my rudder and
elevators. At 1600 pounds Cap. the 16S (10-32 or 3/16" thread)
t-buckles look plenty strong to me but they don't test as high as the cable.
Is that the size most Piets are useing or are they going the the heavier
1/4" 22S T-buckles. Almost ordered some 16s this morning but thought it best
to ask first. Thanks in advance.
Ed G.
P.S. I will be at Sun & Fun Lakeland Fl. on Mon April 9th and Tues April
10th. If there will be any Piet People there on those two days I would love
to meet with them. Let me know, maybe we could set up a meeting time and
place.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks Dick--Dayum I was in and out of there several times last year when
I first started on my Piet and didn't know that!!!!
>From: Richard Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'"
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
>Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 19:13:12 -0600
>
>
>
>Try the wood working tent any day, it's Piet headquarters.
>Dick N.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ed Grentzer [SMTP:flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com]
>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 11:38 AM
>To: Pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
>
>
>
>
> I'm about ready to start setting up the rigging for my rudder and
>elevators. At 1600 pounds Cap. the 16S (10-32 or 3/16" thread)
>t-buckles look plenty strong to me but they don't test as high as the
>cable.
>Is that the size most Piets are useing or are they going the the heavier
>1/4" 22S T-buckles. Almost ordered some 16s this morning but thought it
>best
>to ask first. Thanks in advance.
>
> Ed G.
>
> P.S. I will be at Sun & Fun Lakeland Fl. on Mon April 9th and Tues April
>10th. If there will be any Piet People there on those two days I would love
>to meet with them. Let me know, maybe we could set up a meeting time and
>place.
>
>
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>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
did you have a left and a right hand tap? what about
the clevis and eye screws. were they cut threads or
rolled?
del
--- "D.Dale Johnson" wrote:
> Johnson"
>
> Ed Grentzer This is Dale Johnson & Greg & I
> used the 10-32
> turnbuckles on our pete . For all the tail feathers
> & control cables
> also the cross bracing on the cabine struts. I
> turned the barrels out of
> 1/4" hex brass. We did a pull test to destruction
> & they failed at
> around 1300 pounds. I feel very safe with this
> setup and they look
> good.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
oh one more thing, how did you measure the pull test.
--- "D.Dale Johnson" wrote:
> Johnson"
>
> Ed Grentzer This is Dale Johnson & Greg & I
> used the 10-32
> turnbuckles on our pete . For all the tail feathers
> & control cables
> also the cross bracing on the cabine struts. I
> turned the barrels out of
> 1/4" hex brass. We did a pull test to destruction
> & they failed at
> around 1300 pounds. I feel very safe with this
> setup and they look
> good.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda + Skip Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 03/25/01 |
Hay, Pietenpol builders:
I have a question for the list. The Flying and glider manual 1932 plans use
a tail skid made of the 4th leaf
of Ford T front spring. I plan to use this spring building up my tail wheel
assembly. I bought a Model T front spring at a car show flea market, not sure I
got the whole thing, there were 5 leaves in the spring I bought.
The leaf that looks about the right size was the middle leaf. It is 28"
long and has a hole in the center. I figure to use that hole as one of my 3
holes to mount to the fuse. That would give me a spring
15" long assuming I use it as the bolt hole closest to the front of
the A/C.
The question I have is where is the 4th leaf counted from? The
top or the bottom.
Hope to see some of you at Sun and Fun. I will be at any
Piet forum and most if not all of the Corvair forums.
Skip in Atlanta, currently working on main
L/G.
--- Cinda + Skip Gadd
--- csfog(at)earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 03/25/01 |
Skip, It doesn't matter which spring you use as they cut pretty easy with a
hacksaw. I purchased two leaf springs from a local spring supplier and cut
them to size. I bent them to shape per Tony B.'s book in a bench vise
strapping a long two by four to the end for leverage. Use a good bit on slow
speed to drill your holes. I attached it to the fuse using a technique like
Mike Cuy used.
For a drawing of how he did it, use this link to go to my site.
http://cvl.virtualave.net/mikedraw.htm
Also, I used two springs for strength as I felt one spring would have to
much give.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cinda + Skip
Gadd
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 03/25/01
Hay, Pietenpol builders:
I have a question for the list. The Flying and glider manual 1932 plans use
a tail skid made of the 4th leaf
of Ford T front spring. I plan to use this spring building up my tail wheel
assembly. I bought a Model T front spring at a car show flea market, not
sure I
got the whole thing, there were 5 leaves in the spring I bought.
The leaf that looks about the right size was the middle leaf. It is 28"
long and has a hole in the center. I figure to use that hole as one of my 3
holes to mount to the fuse. That would give me a spring
15" long assuming I use it as the bolt hole closest to the front of
the A/C.
The question I have is where is the 4th leaf counted from? The
top or the bottom.
Hope to see some of you at Sun and Fun. I will be at any
Piet forum and most if not all of the Corvair forums.
Skip in Atlanta, currently working on main
L/G.
--- Cinda + Skip Gadd
--- csfog(at)earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
Someone give me a brief on this Sun n fun business. Are there any Piets
usually and is there Piet activity. Not interested in the usual fly-in
activities ie acrobatics, warbirds and spam cans. Just wooden stuff, fabrics
and weldings. Is there any sort of printed schedule of activities????????
Might crank up the T and drive over.
Corky in rainy and muddy La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
Del,
The forks and eyes were purchased. The barrels were turned using right and left
hand taps.
A pull tester was made using a hydraulic jack with a pressure gage installed. The
gage was calibrated, using aircraft weighing scales, to read actual pounds
of stress.
Greg Cardinal
>>> del magsam 03/26 9:06 PM >>>
did you have a left and a right hand tap? what about
the clevis and eye screws. were they cut threads or
rolled?
del
--- "D.Dale Johnson" wrote:
> Johnson"
>
> Ed Grentzer This is Dale Johnson & Greg & I
> used the 10-32
> turnbuckles on our pete . For all the tail feathers
> & control cables
> also the cross bracing on the cabine struts. I
> turned the barrels out of
> 1/4" hex brass. We did a pull test to destruction
> & they failed at
> around 1300 pounds. I feel very safe with this
> setup and they look
> good.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | T model front spring |
To the Pieter who asked about finding the 4th spring. As standard issue the
ford car had 7 leaves on the front spring, the truck usually had more. Sooo
take your pick, go up or down and you end up with the center spring which has
a center hole for the bolt and two outer holes or impressions, seats, for the
spring clamps. I examined mine close this morning and this was my finding.
Corky in Model T country
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Stromberg Carb NA-S3B |
It seems that no too long ago someone advised me or the group of someone ( I
think it was in Florida) that overhauled NA-S3B carbs, but I've searched
high and low and can't find the info. Can anyone out there recall and
perhaps refresh my (failing) memory?
Thanks,
Dick G.
Ft. Myers, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
There are usually 3 to 5 piets there during the week. Also Bert Conoly is
running the wood builders tent with hands on fun, and yes it is all Air
Camper oriented. If you have not made the trek to Sun n Fun yet, your
missing out on a premiere event. About 600,000 people and over 10,000
airplanes, And Pietenpol T-Shirts being worn everywhere you look. I have met
many more piet builders willing to chat than I have ever talked to in my
last 5 years at Brodhead.
Barry
Piet,Jr.Ace,1930 Epps Bi-plane
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun-fun
>
> Pieters,
> Someone give me a brief on this Sun n fun business. Are there any Piets
> usually and is there Piet activity. Not interested in the usual fly-in
> activities ie acrobatics, warbirds and spam cans. Just wooden stuff,
fabrics
> and weldings. Is there any sort of printed schedule of activities????????
> Might crank up the T and drive over.
> Corky in rainy and muddy La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Corky
There is a site with lots of info on Sun & fun at www.eaa.org look
under " Short Cuts " on the right hand side and click on Sun & Fun. It's a
great fly-in with just about everything that flies and lots of homebuilts
and classics.
Ed G.
>From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sun-fun
>Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:12:19 -0500
>
>
>There are usually 3 to 5 piets there during the week. Also Bert Conoly is
>running the wood builders tent with hands on fun, and yes it is all Air
>Camper oriented. If you have not made the trek to Sun n Fun yet, your
>missing out on a premiere event. About 600,000 people and over 10,000
>airplanes, And Pietenpol T-Shirts being worn everywhere you look. I have
>met
>many more piet builders willing to chat than I have ever talked to in my
>last 5 years at Brodhead.
>Barry
>Piet,Jr.Ace,1930 Epps Bi-plane
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 10:36 AM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun-fun
>
>
> >
> > Pieters,
> > Someone give me a brief on this Sun n fun business. Are there any Piets
> > usually and is there Piet activity. Not interested in the usual fly-in
> > activities ie acrobatics, warbirds and spam cans. Just wooden stuff,
>fabrics
> > and weldings. Is there any sort of printed schedule of
>activities????????
> > Might crank up the T and drive over.
> > Corky in rainy and muddy La
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
Del Magsam I believe they are rolled threads on clevis ends .They were
bought from aircraft spruce. I do have right & left hand taps . I turned
then on a metal lath & taped them on the lathe. For the pull test I used
a bottle jack with a 3000# pressure gage screwed into the pressure
chamber. The bottle jack has a 1 sq in piston so you can read the weight
of the gage directly. This is mounted on a 8' I beam . Greg & I tested
all of our nicropress cables. Landing gear & drag &anti drag cables. I
hope you can picture this .
Dale Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. White" <flywfarm(at)atlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg Carb NA-S3B |
Richard Gillespie wrote:
>
> It seems that no too long ago someone advised me or the group of someone ( I
> think it was in Florida) that overhauled NA-S3B carbs, but I've searched
> high and low and can't find the info. Can anyone out there recall and
> perhaps refresh my (failing) memory?
>
> Thanks,
> Dick G.
> Ft. Myers, FL
>
Try Mr. Wiggins
Aircraft Accessories of Sebring Inc.
2610 S. Lake Denton Rd.
Avon Park, FL. 33825
I have a Aeronca L-3B but I love Piets.
John W. White
Brooksville, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Emch" <emchair(at)cros.net> |
Hi Group,
On my Piet, I am using the split axle gear with wire wheels. I've had cable where
the bungee cords go, but now I'm ready to put the bungees on. What seems
to be working as far as bungee length and size. I know the plans say 6' of I
think 5/8" bungee, but I thought I would check around and see what someone else
may have come up with. Also, what is a good way to form the ends, and any secrets
to getting the right amount of tightness to ensure staight up and down
wheels? Any help is greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Don Emch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Stromberg Carb NA-S3B |
John W. White.
Thanks a million John. I knew it was someone nearby but couldn't remember
or find my notes. What is an Aeronca L-3B? I learned on a Champ in the
fifties but am not familiar with the L-3B.
DickG.
Ft. Myers, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 03/26/2001 11:40:15 AM Central Standard Time,
flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< P.S. I will be at Sun & Fun Lakeland Fl. on Mon April 9th and Tues April
10th. If there will be any Piet People there on those two days I would love
to meet with them. Let me know, maybe we could set up a meeting time and
place. >>
Ed,Doc,Richard,Skip,Corky,Barry,Bert, et al.....I promised Bert Conoly that
I'd put in some time at the woodworking tent to help out and would really
like to meet all Piet builders. I'll Be there on Tues & Wed Apr 10,11. Be
wearing my Piet shirt and hat. Stop by and say hi !! Don Hicks (Hartford,
Al) starting to lay on final color.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gear bungees |
In a message dated 3/27/01 5:02:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, emchair(at)cros.net
writes:
> On my Piet, I am using the split axle gear with wire wheels. I've had cable
> where the bungee cords go, but now I'm ready to put the bungees on. What
> seems to be working as far as bungee length and size. I know the plans say
> 6' of I think 5/8" bungee, but I thought I would check around and see what
> someone else may have come up with. Also, what is a good way to form the
> ends, and any secrets to getting the right amount of tightness to ensure
> staight up and down wheels? Any help is greatly appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
> Don Emch
>
>
>
Don,
I have spoke wheels and split gear on my plane (improved aircamper). I use
the plans bungee length and size and use one good quality hose clamp to
terminate each end. It took me a while to come up with a method of getting
the bungee tight. The airplane handles better if the bungess are tight. I
also have the wooden plugs on the gear and and they are really good (someone
made them for me). I will explain how I do this bungee process if you want
to here it. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. White" <flywfarm(at)atlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg Carb NA-S3B |
Dick:
A L-3 is the military version of the Tandam series that was built just prior to
WW2. My L-3 was built in 1942, I restored it back in the 80's,
then crashed it, by landing in the top of a tree, after the engine quit on climb
out
from buzzing a guy, I had messed with the Carburator, and was climbing a steep
angle, at about 800', I learned why we have the prop turning in front, cause I
really got hot and started to sweat.
So I have a lot of experience with having a carburator rebuilt, and Mr. Wiggins
is
very good. I forgot to give you his Phone#1-941-452-2925
John W. White
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg Carb NA-S3B |
John,
I called Mr. Wiggins this morning and UPS'd my carb to him. Sounds like a
nice guy. I bought my A-65 in pieces from a guy who had it in storage for
over 30 years. The magna-flux and parts bills were dated in 68 and 69.
Everything was painted and looked like new as did the carb but I thought
after 30 years I didn't want to take any chances, especially after spending
5 or 6 years building the airplane. I'm doing the engine controls and
instruments now and have a prop on order, but it looks like another year or
two to get the wings put together and the fabric work done. Details,
details. Thanks again.
Dick G.
Ft. Myers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
>
>Hi Group,
>On my Piet, I am using the split axle gear with wire wheels. I've had
>cable where the bungee cords go, but now I'm ready to put the bungees
>on. What seems to be working as far as bungee length and size. I know
>the plans say 6' of I think 5/8" bungee, but I thought I would check
>around and see what someone else may have come up with. Also, what is a
>good way to form the ends, and any secrets to getting the right amount of
>tightness to ensure staight up and down wheels? Any help is greatly
>appreciated!
Hello Don- My info here might not apply to your gear since I've got the
straight axle, BUT......lemmie
try. 5/8" is a bear to work with. I went with 1/2" bungee and found it to
work well. (bought a 12 ft.
piece and cut it into two six footers.) I loop one end around the axle
and wood ash/gear bottom
piece and cinch-down about five or six good quality nylon tye-wraps with a
tye wrap gun. I snip the
sharp ends of the tye-wraps and sometimes file them so on subsequent wraps
the bungee movement
does not chaffe the cord by the wraps. Other methods used to secure
bungee ends are shown in
Tony Bingelis' books and I think show using rib-lacing cord wrapped.....and
mabye even several
hose clamps. I know Frank Pavliga uses hose clamps. I've never seen
anyone use tye-wraps
but after 200 hours I think they are fine. You just have to use enough of
them so if one or two
breaks or gets brittle the others will serve as good back-ups.
Getting the tension right is an art. I tried to make both left and
right wrappings about equal
in tension, but as you would expect they were not. So you go out to the
wing struts and
pull down (at the wing attach fittings.) You can easily feel and see which
side is loose or too
tight. I wanted a cushy ride but that was in error. The cords will
stretch on you after a bit of
flying so error on the side of too tight and during taxi tests, etc.
they'll loosen some.
The danger of cords that are too loose is that in a crosswind (and it's
scary to have this happen.)
when you take off you push the stick over into the crosswind to keep yer
wing low right ?
When the bungees are too loose the wing neverminds your control imput and
has no
authority because the bungees let the plane/airframe move where it
wants. You don't want em'
too stiff because then all your landings seem like carrier arrivals. Kind
of just have to wrap,
re-wrap, unwrap.....until you gettum just right for you. Tire pressure
has alot to do with take off
roll distances (especially on grass) and deceleration. Too much no good,
too little, no good.
(guess that's why they give us all those test hours to tinker with these
kinds of things.
As a precaution I replaced my bungees after 100 hours. They were
still serviceable but
the smoke oil had made the one side quite brittle compared to the
other. Some areas where
the bungee stretches against bolt heads, nuts, or threads were worn, but
not nearly enough to
cause concern. You can keep and eye on that stuff during
pre-flights. Course you won't have
this kind of interference with the split axle....but for anyone else who
might want to know.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Go to a boating store for bungee cords...... |
Guys- forgot to say that if you have a local marina, boat store or
West Marine catalog laying around,
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/commerce/command/ExecMacro/home.d2w/re
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/commerce/command/ExecMacro/home.d2w/report
you can get a decent price usually (compared to Wicks or ACS catalogs)
and better quality !! Sometimes, that is. This is of course assuming
you don't
need the Cub type "already formed into a loop" style and can use the single
length cords.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Cub gear safety cable |
Howdy from Dallas,
Does anybody know the best to look for a safety cable
to put on my Cub type landing for my GN-1. I heard
the bungees might fail under certain conditions and the
safety cable keeps the gear together to help prevent a
prop strike.
Thanks in advance......
See ya at Sun N' Fun.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cub gear safety cable |
The T-craft landing gear vee in my "reference" junk pile has a 3/16" - 1/4"
safety cable (measured out at 7/32"?!) -- Nicro-pressed eyelets on both
ends.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cub gear safety cable
>
> Howdy from Dallas,
>
> Does anybody know the best to look for a safety cable
> to put on my Cub type landing for my GN-1. I heard
> the bungees might fail under certain conditions and the
> safety cable keeps the gear together to help prevent a
> prop strike.
>
> Thanks in advance......
>
> See ya at Sun N' Fun.
>
> Mike King
> GN-1
> 77MK
> Dallas, Texas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
In an AP news item (appearing in a newspaper near you), the Wright brothers
model B airplane that has been housed at the Franklin Institute in
Philadelphia is being dismantled and taken to the Aeroplane Works in Ohio
for a complete restoration and return to Franklin Institute in
2003. Included in this news item is a full color photo of three guys
taking the airplane (aeroplane?) apart at the Franklin Institute.
One of the fellows pictured is our own Pietenpol guy, Dick Alkire. Dick
has been a longtime Piet guy, and was even the first president of the old
Buckeye Pietenpol Association. Glad to see Dick's airplane restoration
talents recognized.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Emch" <emchair(at)cros.net> |
Thanks Doug and Mike. Those are very good ideas and are very helpful. Doug, if
you wouldn't mind I would like to hear more about the actual wrapping and terminating
the ends, if you have time. Thanks guys!
Don Emch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
Tom Ash" ,
Sue Loyd , Barb & Vince Terrentio ,
Sharon Fleenor ,
Brian Tammy Prewitt ,
Stephanie Ellis ,
RoseCharles Prewitt , Barb Hudsen ,
Tom & Nell Czaplicki ,
Chris Czaplicki
| Subject: | Re: [COUPERS] Fwd: E-Mail surcharge |
Robert Graves wrote:
> ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----
>
> Anyone wanting to e-mail their representatives about stopping bill 602P,
> there is a website that allows you to compose a letter, and then sent it
> to all representatives with one click.......it is
> www.mailblastersdot.com. Bob
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesJboyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Stringers on Pietenpol Turtledeck |
Help Somebody,
I am trying to figure out how to know where the stringers will go from one
bulkhead to another. They would all be the same numbers of degrees radially
if the bulkheads were all the same distance apart, but they're not. Close,
but not the same. Are they close enough? I hate to cut notches in the
bulkheads and then find the stringers have waves in them.
I can always just run one from one bulkhead to another and mark all those in
between, but there must be another way, any ideas? I am beginning to think
this is the fastest way.
Second question, since the plans are so detailed, is everyone using 1 inch by
1/4 inch stringers?
Third question does anyone make the landing gear fitting for the cub type
gear?
Thanks, Jim Boyer, Santa Rosa, CA.
PS. I have the wing ribs, tail surfaces, and fuselage almost all framed up. I
think I am at that point where you say you're 80% done with 90% left to go.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stringers on Pietenpol Turtledeck |
Jim,
What you're describing is basically the way I ended up doing my stringers -
I took a chalk line and snapped on the bulkhead and notched it there. I
didn't get it perfect, but it is pretty decent. Some folks are like me and
take days and days, but I hear some folks had no trouble at all, and knocked
out these stringers in a couple hours! A lot of folks support these stringer
with individual pieces of stringer material glued to the bulkhead. That
looks like a good way too. You can get a lot of ideas from the ever Aicamper
website - by the way - well worth a $5.00 Paypal donation!
I ripped-out some 1/4" x 1" Doug fir strips from Home Depot for the
stringers - worked fine.
I think Replicraft sells ready made landing gear mounts for the split axle
steel gear. I think they may be at www.replicraftaviation.com?
Someone will know. Good luck on the stringers, the plans ARE very sketchy
back there!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesJboyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Stringers on Pietenpol Turtledeck |
Re:
Jim,
What you're describing is basically the way I ended up doing my stringers -
I took a chalk line and snapped on the bulkhead and notched it there. I
Hi Gary,
Thanks for the reply. I was wondering if I was overlooking something. Using a
chalk line sure does seem like the faster way to do it. I have the backup
stringer support for the bulkhead right behind the cockpit made, just wanted
to be sure I didn't screw up doing the stringers. I have going to Mead Clark
lumber yard on my list for today to get some Doug Fir to make stringers.
I'll check with Replicraft about the landing gear fittings. I wasn't looking
forward to making them.
Thanks again for the reply, Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stringers on Pietenpol Turtledeck |
that sounds like a good way to do it. I made the front
and rear radiused pieces first and then put astraight
edge on top to see how high to make the middle
radiused pieces. then took a divider and marked
equally spaced lines on each one and then notched them
at that line. I then put everything together dry and
just put t88 in every corner. it came out perfect.
took about 3 hrs from start to finish.
del
--- JamesJboyer(at)aol.com wrote:
> JamesJboyer(at)aol.com
>
> Help Somebody,
>
> I am trying to figure out how to know where the
> stringers will go from one
> bulkhead to another. They would all be the same
> numbers of degrees radially
> if the bulkheads were all the same distance apart,
> but they're not. Close,
> but not the same. Are they close enough? I hate to
> cut notches in the
> bulkheads and then find the stringers have waves in
> them.
>
> I can always just run one from one bulkhead to
> another and mark all those in
> between, but there must be another way, any ideas?
> I am beginning to think
> this is the fastest way.
>
> Second question, since the plans are so detailed, is
> everyone using 1 inch by
> 1/4 inch stringers?
>
> Third question does anyone make the landing gear
> fitting for the cub type
> gear?
>
> Thanks, Jim Boyer, Santa Rosa, CA.
>
> PS. I have the wing ribs, tail surfaces, and
> fuselage almost all framed up. I
> think I am at that point where you say you're 80%
> done with 90% left to go.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
I glued the stringers to the front and rear bulkheads, than made 1"
finger supports from 1/8 ply. with slots in upper end for the stringers.
The supports look fan like (or spoke like) glued to the cross pieces.
No measuring, just eye ball for straightness of stringers and glue on.
Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
My bride Isabelle has just talked me into getting the T cranked up and
heading for Florida to be at Sun -Fun in Lakeland where-ever that is. NOW, I
need some input as to where when why and what. I don't want to arrive there
like the boob I am and start asking dumb questions such as, " Where are the
Pietenpol builders?". Where and when are the classes for the fabric
applications? Do you know Doc Mosher? Have you seen Mike Cuy?
Someone give me a little help or I'll just take the magneto off charge and
stay home.
Corky in beautiful Louisiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stringers on Pietenpol Turtledeck |
In a message dated 3/30/01 10:46:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,
JamesJboyer(at)aol.com writes:
> Third question does anyone make the landing gear fitting for the cub type
> gear?
>
>
What kind of landing gear fittings do you mean? Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesJboyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Stringers on Pietenpol Turtledeck |
What kind of landing gear fittings do you mean? Doug Bryant
Hi Doug,
I am building the cub type gear (bungee cords around 'x' telescoping
section). I'm not looking forward to drilling that round stock off center and
welding the whole mess. Number one, I can't weld, and number 2 drilling that
rod off center sounds like a good way to waste time and material!
Thanks, Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesJboyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Stringers on Pietenpol Turtledeck |
Hi Del,
Thats what I ended up doing; using a chalk line and snapping a line on all
the bulkheads and then cuttine the notches where the line left chalk. It
took me most of the afternoon though to cut the notches what with my
procrastination and all. The of course tonight had to watch the San Francisco
Giants play Seattle (Giants won 2 to 0). Tomorrow am cutting up some western
cedar to use for the stringers 1"x1.4".
Cheers and thanks, Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Found the web site for Sun-n-fun. Have all the answers I need plus some.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"piet discussion"
Just wanted to pass along a good hint from my friend/AP. I was asking about
painting over rusty metal and the preparations needed. He told me about
POR-15 , which I had never heard of.
Apparently it's a paint that covers rust( normally any rust has to be
completely sandblasted away or it will bubble through the paint in time).
and bonds with it to stop the rust completely.
He said that he actually painted a circle on a rusty floor pan off of a car
and put it in the backyard. In time the pan fell apart around the circle,
and the rust did not even crawl under the edge of the paint.
The good use for homebuilders is that it withstands temps. up to 1400F,
perfect for exhaust pipes.
Only drawback is the price. Think it is at good auto part stores.
Check out the site at,,,
http://www.por15.com/
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | project parts for sale |
I am forwarding this for a guy on the Aeronca list. He
has some parts for sale. For more information contact Tony
at markl(at)intercom.net. From his note I am not sure if they
are for a Pietenpol or a Grega or maybe some of both.
Dave
I have two 4130 steel tube fuselages, one frame completely
welded and the other frame tack welded. The welding is nice
work (I did not do it) No fittings are welded yet. There
are also two sets of professionally made wing ribs (62 ribs).
One set has one rib with hangar rash (a broken capstrip). I
have a wing rib jig and Pietenpol plans. I believe they are
Grega plans. The fuselages have the tubes for the drop-down
door like a J-3 to make front cockpit access easier. Check
the price of 4130 tubing and welding cost per cluster to get
a value for these fuselages. I would like to sell the whole
package (I have become an Aeronca Person) but will sell
separate if no one wants the whole thing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
HI friends
About the turtledeck, it was easy to draw on Autocad,
with the size of the main former, and the size of the
little rear former, the size of the nex formers is
automatic. when i have the draw for the formers, just
make it on plywood, glue all and 2 or 3 hours is
finished.
If something need the draw on Autocad, just send me
your dates and i will be happy to do.
I make the landing gear with weld on axles, j3 style,
metal shock struts, the fittings are not easy to make
because i have to tach weld and test to much times for
landing gear aligned, the landing gear looks well.
I have pictures and Autocad drawings if someone wants
to see.
Well i will expect that you can understand me,
sometime i will be flying the Piet and i will be
speaking english. ja ja
Javier Cruz
Saludos
Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FFP Motorcycle engines(passing of Tony Bengelis) |
This was sad news. Even though I didn't know the man, I sure do know his
work. I can, and do ,get lost in his books for hours.
One of those guys who added a big chunk to what sport flying is today.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: <jeffp505(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: FFP Motorcycle engines
> Dear Fellow Fish-neters
> It is with a sad heart that I send you this notice of the passing of
Tony
> Bengelis. I belong to the same EAA chapter that Tony belonged to here in
> Austin. I just got word that his funeral is today. I am sorry I do not
have
> any details.
>
> Jeff del Castillo
> FFP505
>
> :
> Check out the Fishnet Hangar at...
> http://www.lairdlind.com/fishnet.htm
> Submit a picture of your Fishnet project to Laird Lind
> lairdl(at)airmail.net
>
> ==
================================================================
> EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxjdq.aVEXCJ
> Or send an email To: Fishnet-unsubscribe(at)topica.com
> This email was sent to: wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net
>
> T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less.
> Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose.
> http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
> ==
================================================================
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: FFP Motorcycle engines(passing of Tony Bengelis) |
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: FFP Motorcycle engines(passing of Tony Bengelis)
> This was sad news. Even though I didn't know the man, I sure do know his
> work. I can, and do ,get lost in his books for hours.
> One of those guys who added a big chunk to what sport flying is today.
> walt
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jeffp505(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 7:32 AM
> Subject: Re: FFP Motorcycle engines
>
>
> > Dear Fellow Fish-neters
> > It is with a sad heart that I send you this notice of the passing of
> Tony
> > Bengelis. I belong to the same EAA chapter that Tony belonged to here in
> > Austin. I just got word that his funeral is today. I am sorry I do not
> have
> > any details.
> >
> > Jeff del Castillo
> > FFP505
> >
> > :
> > Check out the Fishnet Hangar at...
> > http://www.lairdlind.com/fishnet.htm
> > Submit a picture of your Fishnet project to Laird Lind
> > lairdl(at)airmail.net
> >
> >
>
> :
> Check out the Fishnet Hangar at...
> http://www.lairdlind.com/fishnet.htm
> Submit a picture of your Fishnet project to Laird Lind
> lairdl(at)airmail.net
>
> ==
================================================================
> EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxjdq.aVEXCJ
> Or send an email To: Fishnet-unsubscribe(at)topica.com
> This email was sent to: wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net
>
> T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less.
> Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose.
> http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
> ==
================================================================
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Wilcox" <CraigWilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
Corky -
Didn't know magnetos would accept a charge. Is it Visa or MC?
Sun n' Fun is easy - they have a whole host of volunteers who do nothing but
answer questions like "Where are the Piets?" Where is such 'n such class?
There is anice campground to the south of the airstrips, and everyone tries
to be a gracious host.
BUT - they do move things around each year, so be sure to ask. The dumbest
question is the one that didn't get asked.
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun fun
>
> My bride Isabelle has just talked me into getting the T cranked up and
> heading for Florida to be at Sun -Fun in Lakeland where-ever that is. NOW,
I
> need some input as to where when why and what. I don't want to arrive
there
> like the boob I am and start asking dumb questions such as, " Where are
the
> Pietenpol builders?". Where and when are the classes for the fabric
> applications? Do you know Doc Mosher? Have you seen Mike Cuy?
> Someone give me a little help or I'll just take the magneto off charge and
> stay home.
> Corky in beautiful Louisiana
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R deCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | server down temporarily |
aircamper server down temporarily while I move my office upstairs. back up
in a day or so.
thanks to all those who donated. you rasied $65! thats enough for the
domain. once internic gets the check the domain will be up again.
cheers!
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Thanks Craig,
I sort of figured something might be wrong with my Model T Magneto as it's
been on the charger for years and that damn Ford still wouldn't crank.
Isabelle and I have decided to stay in Louisiana and spend our money on
ourselves and our Piet. Might even go out for dinner at Wendys. Don't want to
spoil my bride and make her think I'm a big spender.
Had a visit this afternoon with a Mr. Edwin Johnson who lives here in
Shreveport. He is on this Piet net as he is interested in building a Piet. I
let him take my set of plans and Mike's video. If that doesn't prime
hisinterest nothing will. For those of you attending Sun Fun, look for him
there. Maybe you can encourage him more.
Corky in beautiful spring like Azalea filled Louisiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stringers on Pietenpol Turtledeck |
In a message dated 3/30/01 8:44:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,
JamesJboyer(at)aol.com writes:
> I am building the cub type gear (bungee cords around 'x' telescoping
> section). I'm not looking forward to drilling that round stock off center
> and
> welding the whole mess. Number one, I can't weld, and number 2 drilling
> that
> rod off center sounds like a good way to waste time and material!
>
>
JIm,
I still don't understand your gear. Do you mean the gear for the improved
aircamper (1933 version) or do you mean a copy of an actual Cub gear? Are
you building A Grega or a Pietenpol? I have built plenty of Steel gears and
suspension struts for the Improved aircamper and could probably help. Give
me some more detail. If you are building to the improved aircamper plans go
to the page and area on the page. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gear bungees |
Don,
On the bungee wrapping for the improved aircamper gear , I went out today and
took some closeup pictures. If you would like, I could send them in the
mail.
Here is the rough process all done with wooden plugs installed. I use 3 1/2
feet of bungee per wrap and of course there are four wraps. Wrap the ends
with medical cloth tape, wrap around lower lug and clamp, make three wraps
around as tight as possible, make an extra loop and connect it to a
motorcycle tie down strap passing thru the spoke wheel to the axle. Then I
hide behind the wheel and pull pretty tight, then go back under the plane and
clamp. When the clamping is complete, I unclamp the extra loop and stow this
extra length. The picture will make this very clear because the process is
really easy and I can complete the job by myself. I am going to develop some
special tools and try another way, but for now, this is the method I use. I
change the bungee every other year. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesJboyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Stringers on Pietenpol Turtledeck |
Re: Pietenpol stringers and landing gear. . Do you mean the gear for the
improved
aircamper (1933 version)
Hi Doug, Yes I mean the 1933 Improved Aircamper. I am building a Piet. The
plan sheet that looks intimadating to me is Drawing #3 landing gear fittings
where you have to drill a 1/4" hole 1/8" off center and file a flat on it to
line up the gear 'V' where they join the fuselage. I am procrastinating
working on these fittings. I can find all sorts of things yet undone on the
fuselage before I need to commit to these fittings.
By the way I have all the formers/bulkheads notched and the stringers fitted
now, will glue them tomorrow after church. Thanks for you chalk line
suggestion, it worked great.
Cheers, Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Stringers on Pietenpol Turtledeck |
Jim, Making the gear I thought was one of the toughest parts of this
project. One of the tricks I used was after making the plates and mounting
them on the fuse, I cut and ground the round stock close to what the plans
show. Then I put the hinge pieces on the plates with thin strips of tape.
Using a long rod, I held it along the axis of the hinges to find the hole
positions. I also marked the postion of the hinges on the plates. Then I
drilled the holes, removed the plates and tack welded the hinges. Then I put
the plates back on the fuse, put the rod thru the hinges ( the small tack
will let you adjust for alignment) transferred the whole thing to a jig and
welded. I basically did the same thing with the rod when I welded the hinges
to the V legs. Making the jigs was a job in itself but was well worth it. I
hope this helps. Good luck,
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
JamesJboyer(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stringers on Pietenpol Turtledeck
Re: Pietenpol stringers and landing gear. . Do you mean the gear for the
improved
aircamper (1933 version)
Hi Doug, Yes I mean the 1933 Improved Aircamper. I am building a Piet. The
plan sheet that looks intimadating to me is Drawing #3 landing gear fittings
where you have to drill a 1/4" hole 1/8" off center and file a flat on it to
line up the gear 'V' where they join the fuselage. I am procrastinating
working on these fittings. I can find all sorts of things yet undone on the
fuselage before I need to commit to these fittings.
By the way I have all the formers/bulkheads notched and the stringers fitted
now, will glue them tomorrow after church. Thanks for you chalk line
suggestion, it worked great.
Cheers, Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mckellars" <mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net> |
Gentlemen, Has anyone used longer cabane struts. I was thinking that
they would make it easier to get in and out. Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cabane struts |
In a message dated 4/1/01 7:38:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net writes:
> Gentlemen, Has anyone used longer cabane struts. I was thinking that
> they would make it easier to get in and out. Mark
>
>
>
Mark,
I used plan length for my first aircamper because I am small and the airplane
fits me well. On the second aircamper, the Bryant/Gantzer aircamper, we
raised the wing 2 inches because Chuck will be the one flying this airplane
and needs the space. BHP raised the wing 4 inches on the first corvair
airpalne but thought it was a little too much so he went to 2 inches on the
last one. I think 2 inches is quite common and it looks good. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stringers on Pietenpol Turtledeck |
In a message dated 3/31/01 9:52:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
JamesJboyer(at)aol.com writes:
> Hi Doug, Yes I mean the 1933 Improved Aircamper. I am building a Piet. The
> plan sheet that looks intimadating to me is Drawing #3 landing gear
> fittings
> where you have to drill a 1/4" hole 1/8" off center and file a flat on it
> to
> line up the gear 'V' where they join the fuselage. I am procrastinating
> working on these fittings. I can find all sorts of things yet undone on the
> fuselage before I need to commit to these fittings.
>
>
Jim,
OK, now I'm with ya. I (and a host of others) can can help you with this
gear and have a great set of jigs to build the entire gear. I use four
jigs, one for the V, one to set the lugs, one to set the axle, and one to
set the bungee lugs on the suspesion struts. If you need of set of drilled
lugs, I'll make you some. I think I still have enough material.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mckellars" <mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net> |
Doug, Thanks for the reply. I'm gonna go with the 2 in. increase sounds
good to me. Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cabane struts |
"Gentlemen, Has anyone used longer cabane struts. I was thinking that
they would make it easier to get in and out. Mark"
Mark, most builders do. About 21/2 to 3 in.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R deCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
http://aircamper.no-ip.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesJboyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Stringers on Pietenpol Turtledeck |
Hi Doug,
Per your question: . If you need of set of drilled lugs, I'll make you some.
I think I still have enough material.
If you have enough material Doug,I will happily pay you for making the
drilled lugs.
Do you have any sketches of your jigs you could send, or good descriptions. I
do not have any experience or tools for working on steel, so it slows me down.
Thanks Doug, Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Emch" <emchair(at)cros.net> |
Hi Doug,
Thanks very much for the detailed descripition of installing the bungees. I would
really like to see those pictures. If you leave your address, I'd like to
send you a few bucks for your trouble. I like the idea of using the cool turned
wood ends, just like the plans!
Don Emch
426 N. Sandusky St.
Bellevue, OH 44811
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stringers on Pietenpol Turtledeck |
In a message dated 4/1/01 2:35:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
JamesJboyer(at)aol.com writes:
> Do you have any sketches of your jigs you could send, or good descriptions.
> I
> do not have any experience or tools for working on steel, so it slows me
> down.
>
>
Jim,
I could photograph them and mail. I would would think that somehow you're
going to have to get some help on the some of these steel parts perhaps from
another builder in your area. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gear bungees |
In a message dated 4/1/01 3:12:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, emchair(at)cros.net
writes:
> Thanks very much for the detailed descripition of installing the bungees. I
> would really like to see those pictures. If you leave your address, I'd
> like to send you a few bucks for your trouble. I like the idea of using
> the cool turned wood ends, just like the plans!
>
Don,
I'll develop the pictures tomorrow and send them. They will also show the
wooden plugs. A friend here made the plugs for me and I installed them after
the airplane had 80 hours on it. I was surprised how nice they look. No
need for the bucks. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: drilling off center |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
04/02/2001 10:35:16 AM
The plan sheet that looks intimadating to me is Drawing #3 landing
gear fittings
where you have to drill a 1/4" hole 1/8" off center and file a flat on
it to
line up the gear 'V' where they join the fuselage. I am
procrastinating
working on these fittings. I can find all sorts of things yet undone
on the
fuselage before I need to commit to these fittings.
I start the hole straight in and then rotate the tubing to where the
angle is correct and then finish drilling. The started hole will be
able to hold the drill in place.
Coming out the other side can be done by going extremely slow or by
repeating the first step. It pretty much depends on the size of the
drill.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R deCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
I've added an events database to the site. If anyone knows of any events,
please enter them so they can be posted. Not limited to Pietepol... anything
flying will do!
http://aircamper.no-ip.com/index.cfm?cmd=events
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Drilling---off center? |
Mike,
I read your description of the drilling of the fittings and I'm confused;
"I start the hole straight in and then rotate the tubing to where the
angle is correct and then finish drilling. The started hole will be
able to hold the drill in place."
We have finished our landing gear and have the fuselage up on the gear
and didn't go about it that way. The plans show a much simpler way to
drill the holes and they come out easily and quickly.
Cut the fittings to the required length and deburr, place in a "vee" block
and set on end, mark the 1/8" offset with a centerpunch and drill the
1/4" hole. No angle drilling required or needed. The "vee" block safely
holds the fitting straight up for drilling.
Then, as the plans call out, file the flat to an approximate angle, setting
the
fitting on the plate, to which it will be welded later, which is placed on
the
upside down fuselage at the proper locations. Insert a long 1/4" rod to
connect the forward and rear bushings, being careful of sag in the rod, and
check how much fileing of the angled flat is needed.
Then as described by a previous lister, align, mark, clamp and tack weld
the fitting to the plate and adjust as required using a drill rod inserted
in
both forward and rear bushing/plates for alignment and finish welding. Of
course, do the welding off the fuselage, no need to set fire to the
structure
in the excitement of the moment.
Rodger Childs
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
First............let me classify by stating that I'm no high-faluting,
high-stepping,sweet-smeller like some of those nawth'ern gents I was forced
to associate with in the damn Army. BUT I'm at a point where Isabelle won't
even hold my hand anymore and no one wants me at the bridge table so I can
only turn to the Piet net for HELP.
How do you get the residue, waste,spillage off your hands after using that
new urethane glue? I've gone from soap & water, varsol, acetone to no avail.
Please, someone come forth and help this pooooooooooor ,ooooooooooooold
southern country boy.
Corky in beauuuuuuuuuuuuutiful La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
Corky,
Try mineral spirits followed by that orange hand cleaner. That works for me.
Also try to keep your fingers out of your nose until the glue dries.
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edwin Johnson <elj(at)shreve.net> |
By way of introduction, I also live in Shreveport, LA, and am considering
building a Pietenpol, a project which I've been thinking about for several
years. Many thanks to Corky for letting me peruse his project.
I am planning, at this time, to be at Sun 'n Fun this year and will be
flying my M5 Maule, N9179E. Would love to meet some of the group there.
The plane is white/blue, picture on my homepage (in signature block
below).
This email list seems to be, like another of which I'm a member, very
friendly and stuffed full of information, a good resource for everyone.
...Edwin
>Had a visit this afternoon with a Mr. Edwin Johnson who lives here in
>Shreveport. He is on this Piet net as he is interested in building a
>Piet. I let him take my set of plans and Mike's video. If that doesn't
>prime hisinterest nothing will. For those of you attending Sun Fun, look
>for him there. Maybe you can encourage him more. Corky in beautiful
...Edwin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Edwin Johnson ....... elj(at)shreve.net ~
~ http://www.shreve.net/~elj ~
~ ~
~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the ~
~ earth with your eyes turned skyward, ~
~ for there you have been, there you long ~
~ to return." -- da Vinci ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Drilling---off center? |
In a message dated 4/2/01 9:04:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
childsway@indian-creek.net writes:
> We have finished our landing gear and have the fuselage up on the gear
> and didn't go about it that way. The plans show a much simpler way to
> drill the holes and they come out easily and quickly.
>
> Cut the fittings to the required length and deburr, place in a "vee" block
> and set on end, mark the 1/8" offset with a centerpunch and drill the
> 1/4" hole. No angle drilling required or needed. The "vee" block safely
> holds the fitting straight up for drilling.
>
> Then, as the plans call out, file the flat to an approximate angle, setting
> the
> fitting on the plate, to which it will be welded later, which is placed on
> the
> upside down fuselage at the proper locations. Insert a long 1/4" rod to
> connect the forward and rear bushings, being careful of sag in the rod, and
> check how much fileing of the angled flat is needed.
>
> Then as described by a previous lister, align, mark, clamp and tack weld
> the fitting to the plate and adjust as required using a drill rod inserted
> in
> both forward and rear bushing/plates for alignment and finish welding. Of
> course, do the welding off the fuselage, no need to set fire to the
> structure
> in the excitement of the moment.
>
> Rodger Childs
> Piet in progress
>
>
>
Rodger,
This is the way I do this task also. Your instructions are well written and
should answer the 'how to' (at least one way) to do the gear attach. I was
able to build the V block capability into my drill press vise which was handy
also. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
04/02/2001 01:16:07 PM
LBJ gave us all some good advice. He said, any time that you here the
phrase, "I'm just a poor old ________ "(fill in the blank),
"immediately check to see if you still have your wallet."
Corky, I'm sure? that this doesn't apply to you in particular, but the
phrase does suggest that the hearer or reader should immediately
exercise caution.
Mike
ps. your newsletter copy is back from the printer and will be mailed
as soon as my wife, who generously volunteered, finishes packing and
labeling. This note also goes for all others who trustingly sent
their hard-earned $$$ to this "poor old South Carolina country boy."
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Sent by: To: pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat cc:
ronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List:
Glue
04/02/2001 12:32 PM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list
First............let me classify by stating that I'm no high-faluting,
high-stepping,sweet-smeller like some of those nawth'ern gents I was
forced
to associate with in the damn Army. BUT I'm at a point where Isabelle
won't
even hold my hand anymore and no one wants me at the bridge table so I
can
only turn to the Piet net for HELP.
How do you get the residue, waste,spillage off your hands after using
that
new urethane glue? I've gone from soap & water, varsol, acetone to no
avail.
Please, someone come forth and help this pooooooooooor
,ooooooooooooold
southern country boy.
Corky in beauuuuuuuuuuuuutiful La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Corky,
I think I know what you're talking about. I've used the foam crack filler
to try to seal some air leaks around the house, and I believe that's a
urethane-based foam. I hope someone tells you, cause I couldn't figure it
out! I wonder is working some of the liquid glove or something onto your
hands before you work with the glue would help?
T-88 washes off with good old vinegar - gotta love that!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
Corky,
Sandpaper would work to get the old glue off, but the best is to avoid the
glue in the first place. Get some surgical or examination gloves, avoid the
latex variety just in case you turn up allergic to the stuff. As a lot of
people have.
But heck, I would shake hands with anyone with airplane glue on their hands.
As long as it was dried that is.
Rodger
In the Texas Hillcountry
(with little gluing left to do)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Thanks for all the glue plight suggestions but I decided to try a new
Louisiana remedy.
Clean about 3 lbs of good La gulf shrimp. Chop a lot of onions and celery,
saute in a lot of butter then add some tomato sauce and tomato paste andsome"
Corky's secret ingrediment. Cook for about 1 1/2 hrs,low, then add those
shrimp which helped get the glue off with a lot of green onion tops and a BIG
bell pepper finely chopped. Mince about 4 pods of garlic, throw in some
parsley and cook another 30 minutes before you serve over a big plate of rice
with about 4 bottles of beer or 2 large bottles of wine. This will surely
clean your fingers and burst your belley but you will sure sleep good tonight
Corky in Shrimpy La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Merrill" <lagom(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Last Original |
I was looking over the photo of the "Last Original" corvair powered Piet,
that came with the plans from Don Pietenpol. Under the magnifying glass, I
can not see cross brace wires on the left side or the rights side of the
front cockpit. As plan as day are the cross wire braces for the front and
rear of the cabanes, but NO side wires. I can even see the control cables
clearly. So what 's up with that? I thought you had to at least have one
side wire cross brace. Anyone want to comment and enlighten this perplexed
Piet builder?
Merrill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling---off center? |
Rodger,
You said it well. The only thing I can add is, I have one of those Harbor
Freight lathes, so I turned the ends of the stock pieces flat and square (
though this isn't really necessary) after center pinching the position of
the hole, I just held the piece with a vise grip vertical on the drill
press bed to get a straight hole. Think the trick is to use a small bit
first so it will find the punch mark. Then with the fittings on the plane
and the fuse upside down, thread the 1/4 rod through both pieces and lay
them in place on the brackets. Now eyeball from the side at the light
under the round stock.( they'll just naturally stay in the right position
due to more meat on the bottom, like a pendulum) Now keep grinding off the
point of contact of the round stock pieces till the contact goes full length
of both pieces.
What it boils down to is the flat edges of both round stock have to be
perpendicular to each other while sitting on two angled surfaces.
Lastly, and irregularities will be gone when you line drill them for 5/16"
bolts.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodger & Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Drilling---off center?
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
>
> Mike,
>
> I read your description of the drilling of the fittings and I'm confused;
>
> "I start the hole straight in and then rotate the tubing to where the
> angle is correct and then finish drilling. The started hole will be
> able to hold the drill in place."
>
> We have finished our landing gear and have the fuselage up on the gear
> and didn't go about it that way. The plans show a much simpler way to
> drill the holes and they come out easily and quickly.
>
> Cut the fittings to the required length and deburr, place in a "vee" block
> and set on end, mark the 1/8" offset with a centerpunch and drill the
> 1/4" hole. No angle drilling required or needed. The "vee" block safely
> holds the fitting straight up for drilling.
>
> Then, as the plans call out, file the flat to an approximate angle,
setting
> the
> fitting on the plate, to which it will be welded later, which is placed on
> the
> upside down fuselage at the proper locations. Insert a long 1/4" rod to
> connect the forward and rear bushings, being careful of sag in the rod,
and
> check how much fileing of the angled flat is needed.
>
> Then as described by a previous lister, align, mark, clamp and tack weld
> the fitting to the plate and adjust as required using a drill rod inserted
> in
> both forward and rear bushing/plates for alignment and finish welding. Of
> course, do the welding off the fuselage, no need to set fire to the
> structure
> in the excitement of the moment.
>
> Rodger Childs
> Piet in progress
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Kind of scarey to think that when you started cooking you had glue on your
hands, and when you were done cooking the glue was gone!
Is that Corky's secret ingredient?
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Glue
>
> Thanks for all the glue plight suggestions but I decided to try a new
> Louisiana remedy.
> Clean about 3 lbs of good La gulf shrimp. Chop a lot of onions and celery,
> saute in a lot of butter then add some tomato sauce and tomato paste
andsome"
> Corky's secret ingrediment. Cook for about 1 1/2 hrs,low, then add those
> shrimp which helped get the glue off with a lot of green onion tops and a
BIG
> bell pepper finely chopped. Mince about 4 pods of garlic, throw in some
> parsley and cook another 30 minutes before you serve over a big plate of
rice
> with about 4 bottles of beer or 2 large bottles of wine. This will surely
> clean your fingers and burst your belley but you will sure sleep good
tonight
>
> Corky in Shrimpy La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Last Original |
If you use the angled braces from wing front down to top engine mount, you
don't need the wires.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Merrill" <lagom(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Last Original
>
> I was looking over the photo of the "Last Original" corvair powered Piet,
> that came with the plans from Don Pietenpol. Under the magnifying glass, I
> can not see cross brace wires on the left side or the rights side of the
> front cockpit. As plan as day are the cross wire braces for the front
and
> rear of the cabanes, but NO side wires. I can even see the control cables
> clearly. So what 's up with that? I thought you had to at least have one
> side wire cross brace. Anyone want to comment and enlighten this
perplexed
> Piet builder?
>
> Merrill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | POR 15 - W. Evans |
This product sounds like just the thing for the inside of the control
horns,tube etc where the steel was scorched from the welding. No way to
sand blast in there any way. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Last Original |
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
Hi Merrill You don't need the cross bracing if you use bracing from the
top engine mount to the top of the cabine strut.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: POR 15 - W. Evans |
Leon,
Yeah, I had never heard of it, but people that I trust say it works great.
So at least my plans are to use it on my stightly pitted struts and the
exhaust system.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: POR 15 - W. Evans
Stefan)
>
> This product sounds like just the thing for the inside of the control
> horns,tube etc where the steel was scorched from the welding. No way to
> sand blast in there any way. Leon S.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <J-M-Duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: POR 15 - W. Evans |
Guys I have used POR 15 on my antique truck and can highly recommend it. It is
not
cheep but it works better than anything else I have ever seen.
walter evans wrote:
>
> Leon,
> Yeah, I had never heard of it, but people that I trust say it works great.
> So at least my plans are to use it on my stightly pitted struts and the
> exhaust system.
> walt
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Leon Stefan" <leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:26 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: POR 15 - W. Evans
>
> Stefan)
> >
> > This product sounds like just the thing for the inside of the control
> > horns,tube etc where the steel was scorched from the welding. No way to
> > sand blast in there any way. Leon S.
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mckellars" <mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | corvair for Piet |
Guys, I'm looking for a corvair engine for my Piet.I've looked on the
net but no luck so far. Rebuildable, rebuilt, ready for instalation any
of the above would work . Thanks for any help. I've got W. Wynne's
manual. Mark McKellar
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: corvair for Piet |
Mark,
A good place to start is to join the corvaircraft list if you haven't
already and ask there
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/EMail.html
There are corvair clubs all over the place and possibly a fellow
corvair builder for aircraft near you that will have extra engines or
know of a stash somewhere.
Kirk
Rebuilding a '61 84hp corvair for my piet.
>
>Guys, I'm looking for a corvair engine for my Piet.I've looked on the
>net but no luck so far. Rebuildable, rebuilt, ready for instalation any
>of the above would work . Thanks for any help. I've got W. Wynne's
>manual. Mark McKellar
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I was just scanning barnstormers.com and saw a A-9 magneto switch available from
Palmer Aviation. Classy looking. I bought one just like it from them if
anyone is in the market.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <J-M-Duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: corvair for Piet |
Look on the net for a local Corvair club, and contact them. They should be able
to help you find a good rebuidable core in your area, and save on the high
shipping cost.
Mckellars wrote:
>
> Guys, I'm looking for a corvair engine for my Piet.I've looked on the
> net but no luck so far. Rebuildable, rebuilt, ready for instalation any
> of the above would work . Thanks for any help. I've got W. Wynne's
> manual. Mark McKellar
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair for Piet |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
04/03/2001 07:39:30 AM
Look for the nearest chapter of CORSA and see if they can help you
locate.
Put an ad in the paper "Wanted, rebuildable Corvair engine, 65 or
later model."
Look for the nearest regional gathering of Corvair folks. Besides
showing off cars, they have lots of parts for sale at these things.
You should find an engine and come away wanting to rebuild a whole
Corvair as well.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
Merrill wrote: . "As plan (sic) as day are the cross wire braces
for the front andrear of the cabanes, but NO side wires."
Dear perplexed Piet builder,
Somewhere along the way someone, perhaps Bernie himself,
modified the top motormount brackets and the forward upper
cabane brackets to accept a tubular brace to hold the wing in
fore and aft position and deleted the side cross wires so as to
make entry and egress a lot more graceful, not to mention,
just plain possible.
Now, the cross wires need to be put in first, both sides, before
the forward brace tubes are installed so that the wing may be
adjusted to the proper position fore and aft for balancing. Then
when it is determined where the wing needs to be, the braces
can be made to proper length and installed and the wires removed.
Or some more ingenious persons may compute the wing position
and make the braces adjustable and just go for it the first time.
Either way, the whole idea is to allow ease of entry to the front
cockpit without causing harm to either the passenger or the plane.
Rodger
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Drilling---off center? |
Walt,
It's been said that building your own plane is supposed to
be a learning experiance, and boy have I ever been learning.
We fussed and fumed and worried the landing gear into
creation, even made two jigs along the way to help with
alignment and still ended up with a gear track 1" narrower
than called out for. Then it turns out that someone else has
a different approach to make some of the work easier. Sigh.
I was going to use the vise-grips to hold the bushings for
drilling, but my partner is an A&P and so I felt it necessary
to use the vee block instead to impress him. His comment
on the matter was something to the effect, "a vee block? I
would have used the vise-grips." Oh well.
The real test though will come when we get the plane assembled
just before covering and run it up and down the field to check
if the Piet tracks straight or not. I've got the idea that we are
going to be the lowest paid test pilots and engineers around.
Rodger
Piets from the hill country of Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edwin Johnson <elj(at)shreve.net> |
Although not certain about that particular glue, 3M makes a solvent (quart
can) for their weatherstrip adhesive (yellow, messy, contact cement) which
has proven remarkable in removing and cleaning many things. I keep a can
all the time for many uses, including those pesky price tags and goo that
markets put on stuff. The beautiful thing about the solvent is that it
generally will not harm painted surfaces at all. It's worth a try and has
many uses even if it doesn't work.
...Edwin
>How do you get the residue, waste,spillage off your hands after using
>that new urethane glue? I've gone from soap & water, varsol, acetone to
>no avail.
>Corky in beauuuuuuuuuuuuutiful La
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Edwin Johnson ....... elj(at)shreve.net ~
~ http://www.shreve.net/~elj ~
~ ~
~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the ~
~ earth with your eyes turned skyward, ~
~ for there you have been, there you long ~
~ to return." -- da Vinci ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Williams" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
"Pietenpol-List Digest Server"
Can anyone tell me how tight a newly rebuilt "A" engine should be? Without the
head installed it's all I can do to pull the prop around and with the head mounted
and the resulting compression, it's going to be impossible.
Admittedly, I don't have a full load of oil in it but it doesn't seem likely that
it will free up that much when I top it off. Tomorrow is my engine guy's day
off and I know this will keep me awake until I find someone
who has experienced the same thing.
I could probably find someone with a chassis or a stationary engine set-up that
I could bolt mine into and get it going with a flywheel and starter but I really
don't want to take ithe engine off the plane AGAIN.
John G., you've had recent experience with two "A"s in the last year, what did
you find? Easy enough to turn over or very difficult? Lou L., what
have you found to be the case with yours or are you up to that point yet?
Thanks all
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
You can tighten those connecting rod caps too tight without the proper shims
and clearances on a T model and there isn't a heck of a lot of difference
from an A.
Corky in old Ford country
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Looking for Piets and builders. |
Are there any Piets and/or Piets under construction in the Nevada, Missouri
area?
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com
In a message dated 4/3/01 7:42:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lnawms(at)msn.com
writes:
> Can anyone tell me how tight a newly rebuilt "A" engine should be? Withou> t
the head installed it's all I can do to pull the prop around and with t> he head
mounted and the resulting compression, it's going to be impossibl> e.
>
> Admittedly, I don't have a full load of oil in it but it doesn't seem lik> ely
that it will free up that much when I top it off. Tomorrow is my engi> ne guy's
day off and I know this will keep me awake until I find someone
> who has experienced the same thing.
>
> I could probably find someone with a chassis or a stationary engine set-u> p
that I could bolt mine into and get it going with a flywheel and starte> r but
I really don't want to take ithe engine off the plane AGAIN.
>
> John G., you've had recent experience with two "A"s in the last year, wha> t
did you find? Easy enough to turn over or very difficult? Lou L., what
> have you found to be the case with yours or are you up to that point yet?
>
> Thanks all
>
> Larry
>
>
>
Larry,
That sounds a little tight. My engine now has 95 hours on it, and it now
feels pretty good cold, but is tight warm. The engine for the second
airplane (the Bryant /Gantzer aircamper) is also tight. I am assuming (bad
word) that your engine is correctly built to the nominal specs and clearances
throughout. Howard Henderson (an older piet builder and long time operator)
told me not to set the engines up very tight. I think he was right, but
every body does anyway. I have to run now, but will continue later and I'm
sure Chuck will later today also. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
Larry
Your A engine clearances are fairly tight just like a modern engine.
Minimum clearance on an A rod is 0.001". The rings are likely going to be
tight for a while until the walls and rings seat in. Turn the engine to TDC
and rock the prop back and forth. Then try it ninety degrees from TDC.
At TDC the pistons, all four, are at the ends of the stroke and don't move
much. When positioned at ninety the pistons are travelling fast and the
tight rings if that's what it is will be more noticeable. If it feels free
at TDC the rods and crank are probably okay.
I ran my AA truck engine from new with a fresh rebore pistons and crank.
It was tight enough it didn't want to start on the electric starter but went
right off with the hand crank. Its feel changed with in the first hour of
running.
The airframe and prop with the tail tied down should give you as good a
break in place as any, short of a dyno. Once you get a fire lit in it will
loosen up if the clearances are right. Watch the temp and don't be afraid to
work it. Too many of us still believe in gentle break ins. It is better to
put a variable load on it to flex the rings and seat them. A break in should
go something like this.
-First start. run at idle a minute or so
-Open up to about a 1000 run for a few minutes.
-Idle down and shut off.
-Check and repair any leaks and make any needed timing/ mixture adjustments.
-Restart and run at 1000 until temp starts to come up
-idle down and accelerate to about 1500 smoothly several times.
-run at steady speeds for no longer than a couple of minutes at a time.
-when temp reaches normal, idle down for about a minute and shut off.
-retorque head bolts. check coolant, oil, timing etc. mixture and carb if
need be.
-When it cools down check how tight it feels.
-Smile and restart!
-Run at increasing speeds but not at any steady speed for more than a few
minutes.
-accelerate to higher speeds fairly briskly, puts a good gas load on the
rings to seat them.
-If by now your coolant temp is stable try steady prolonged full throttle.
Keep an eye on coolant temp.
By now you should have about an hours running.
This kind of break in for a water cooled engine can ready an engine for full
load in about an hour..
A long as the cooling system can handle the heat load run it full out for a
while and each time you let it cool down and restart you should notice it
turns easier. An oil change after the first hour on a non filtered engine
like the A is a really good idea to carry out the fine particles.
I wish I could have the load the prop puts on the engine in a road vehicle
break in.
Don't idle too long and don't be afraid to work it.
The rings are the only item that should need break in.
John Mc
PS. don't use an oil pressure gauge on an A. It will just scare you! A
glass flow tube would make more sense.
The hotter an A gets the lower the oil pressure as the oil viscosity changes
with temp.
Remember it is a gravity and splash fed oiling system not full pressure like
our modern engines. The pump just fills the valve chamber and the dipper
tray.
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Williams <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "A" engine
>
> Can anyone tell me how tight a newly rebuilt "A" engine should be? Withou> t
the head installed it's all I can do to pull the prop around and with t> he head
mounted and the resulting compression, it's going to be impossibl> e.
>
> Admittedly, I don't have a full load of oil in it but it doesn't seem lik> ely
that it will free up that much when I top it off. Tomorrow is my engi> ne guy's
day off and I know this will keep me awake until I find someone
> who has experienced the same thing.
>
> I could probably find someone with a chassis or a stationary engine set-u> p
that I could bolt mine into and get it going with a flywheel and starte> r but
I really don't want to take ithe engine off the plane AGAIN.
>
> John G., you've had recent experience with two "A"s in the last year, wha> t
did you find? Easy enough to turn over or very difficult? Lou L., what
> have you found to be the case with yours or are you up to that point yet?
>
> Thanks all
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lou Larsen" <pietlars(at)gate.net> |
Hi Larry:
Today is the "A" day; I fired mine up for the first time this morning, (it
had been run in for a couple of hours by the guy that rebuilt it but that
was with the conventional ignition system). I'm using the WICO Model X
magneto which mounts on top and is driven by the distributor shaft.
Anyway, I got a couple of pops and then a roar. Its running rough and the
mixture is way too rich, but it is running.
As to your question, sounds like your crank journals and/or the rods are a
bit snug. I'm using a flywheel and starter while its in the test stand and
the starter turns it over OK. To move it by hand I can turn the flywheel
but its tough. I used a couple if 1/4" bolts on opposite sides of the
flywheel
and used a 1x2 as a lever to move it for timing.
Meant to answer your last sooner, but I'm glad you got the S O S magazine
OK.
Stop by again when you get down this way again.
Regards,
Lou
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Williams <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "A" engine
>
> Can anyone tell me how tight a newly rebuilt "A" engine should be? Withou> t
the head installed it's all I can do to pull the prop around and with t> he head
mounted and the resulting compression, it's going to be impossibl> e.
>
> Admittedly, I don't have a full load of oil in it but it doesn't seem lik> ely
that it will free up that much when I top it off. Tomorrow is my engi> ne guy's
day off and I know this will keep me awake until I find someone
> who has experienced the same thing.
>
> I could probably find someone with a chassis or a stationary engine set-u> p
that I could bolt mine into and get it going with a flywheel and starte> r but
I really don't want to take ithe engine off the plane AGAIN.
>
> John G., you've had recent experience with two "A"s in the last year, wha> t
did you find? Easy enough to turn over or very difficult? Lou L., what
> have you found to be the case with yours or are you up to that point yet?
>
> Thanks all
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
Corky,
Not all of us Yankees are high-stepping but we do freeze
our butts off if we don't have some clearance :-). I
hate snow but can't get SWMBO to move to Huntsville
Alabama (nicest place I have lived).
I picked up some stuff at a PolyFiber seminar that might
work. It is great on epoxy and supposed to work for oil.
MEK doesn't touch it. It is Invisible Gloves #1211
and I got it from Aircraft Technical Support. Jim and
Dondi Miller run the company. Nice folks. You can find
them at www.aircrafttechsupport.com or 1-877-877-3334.
About $8 for a pound or so. Should last many years.
Dave
N36078 '41 Taylorcraft and building a Piet
>
>First............let me classify by stating that I'm no high-faluting,
>high-stepping,sweet-smeller like some of those nawth'ern gents I was forced
>to associate with in the damn Army. BUT I'm at a point where Isabelle won't
>even hold my hand anymore and no one wants me at the bridge table so I can
>only turn to the Piet net for HELP.
>
>How do you get the residue, waste,spillage off your hands after using that
>new urethane glue? I've gone from soap & water, varsol, acetone to no avail.
>Please, someone come forth and help this pooooooooooor ,ooooooooooooold
>southern country boy.
>
>Corky in beauuuuuuuuuuuuutiful La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 7/32" Ply for floor? |
I've looked all over and don't see anyone selling 7/32" plywood like the
plans specify for the floor. What are people doing, substituting 1/4" or
laminating a 1/8" and 3/32"?
Matt Paxton
(Wings built, fuselage underway)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 7/32" Ply for floor? |
Matt,
I used 1/4".
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: <Woodflier(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 7/32" Ply for floor?
>
> I've looked all over and don't see anyone selling 7/32" plywood like the
> plans specify for the floor. What are people doing, substituting 1/4" or
> laminating a 1/8" and 3/32"?
>
> Matt Paxton
>
> (Wings built, fuselage underway)
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesJboyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 7/32" Ply for floor? |
Reference: I've looked all over and don't see anyone selling 7/32" plywood
like the
plans specify for the floor. What are people doing, substituting 1/4" or
laminating a 1/8" and 3/32"?
I used 6mm marine Mahogany 5 ply. Its available through most lumber yards,
and is much cheaper (about 1/3 the price) than aircraft ply and is beautiful
quality. 6mm is roughly 1/4" (25.4mm to the inch). The wood sizes are not
critical so don't panic if you can't find exactly what BHP used in 1933.
Cheers, Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 7/32" Ply for floor? |
| From: | Chris Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
I used 1/4".
Chris
Sacramento, CA
>
> I've looked all over and don't see anyone selling 7/32" plywood like
> the
> plans specify for the floor. What are people doing, substituting
> 1/4" or
> laminating a 1/8" and 3/32"?
>
> Matt Paxton
>
> (Wings built, fuselage underway)
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I'm heading out in the morning, flying the truck camper to SNF from St. Paul.
Thanks to Mike Cuy for lending a copy of his video. We will be running it all
week in the Wood Forum tent. Y' All stop by and preview it. There will be lots
of good info on scarfing joints, rib building and such.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RD" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Piets in Little Rock, AR? |
I am going to be in Little Rock, Ar for a week working and getting my
gyrocopter training (bought a GyroBee
http://aircamper.no-ip.com/downloads/gyrobee.jpg to fly whilst I build
by Piet) and I was wondering if there are any Piet folk in or around
Little Rock? I'd like to visit if there is.
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 7/32" Ply for floor? |
on the Hoopman plans, ( 2/26/34) drawing no.4 , a 1/4" ply floor is called
for, also note the white ash floor boards are upgraded from 3/4 to 1" thick
on drawing #3
Henry Williams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 7/32" Ply for floor? |
The common substitution is 1/4"
Greg Cardinal
>>> 04/05 4:27 PM >>>
I've looked all over and don't see anyone selling 7/32" plywood like the
plans specify for the floor. What are people doing, substituting 1/4" or
laminating a 1/8" and 3/32"?
Matt Paxton
(Wings built, fuselage underway)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | 7/32" Ply for floor? |
I used quarter inch aircraft plywood I purchased locally from a boat
restoring shop. Since the floor is an important part of the structure's
strength I went with the aircraft quality. Regular plywood may be cheaper
but this is an airplane and not a shed so the extra bucks give peace of mind
while in the wild blue yonder.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Woodflier(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 7/32" Ply for floor?
I've looked all over and don't see anyone selling 7/32" plywood like the
plans specify for the floor. What are people doing, substituting 1/4" or
laminating a 1/8" and 3/32"?
Matt Paxton
(Wings built, fuselage underway)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Need a little help |
Pieters
As I am before installing my A-65, I have that Stromberg Carb without a
mixture control device. Not being familiar with this device I would greatly
appreciate if some knowledgable soul would pour out his wisdom on this
subject and guide me through the process so I can finalize my instrument
panel controls. I definitely want the mixture control if its available
without too much adaptation or expense. I just don't know what's involved.
Thanks
Corky in lean La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Thakns for the help... |
Thanks for the help on the flooring material. Hope to see some of you all at
Sun 'n Fun next week. I'm headed out this morning. If you're up in
Antiques/Classics, look for the tan/orange/white triple tail Bellanca, N8866R.
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need a little help |
Corky,
I just has my carb overhauled and the guy that did it in Sebring, FL says
that a mixture control can be put on.
DickG.
Ft. Myers, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need a little help |
Thanks for the reply. Would like his name and address, phone and/or email if
possible. Have you heard of many A-65s w/ mix control. I'm sure the L-4s had
them in WWII but I don't know. Everyone says it's not needed. That's what
they say about a chute in a Piet also.
Did you receive the picture of YOUR brake parts mounted in MY Piet?
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need a little help |
Corky,
His name is Wiggins dba Aircraft Accessories of Sebring, Inc.
2610 Lake Denton Rd.
Avon Park FL 33825 tele 863/452-2925
Haven't recieved the picture yet. I just installed the carb and aircleaner
yesterday and now have the throttle, carb heat and gas shut-off controls
installed. Waiting on tach to finish instruments. I haven't seen any 65's
with mixture controls but I'm sure they're out there
DickG.
Ft. Myers, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need a little help |
I forget the name of the carb on my 65. It has a
mixture control on it, but it is wired full open, I
could put a cable in but it never fouls a plug and
uses only 4 gal/hr. I do have slick mags so its maybe
a hotter spark?
del
--- Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
> Isablcorky(at)aol.com
>
> Thanks for the reply. Would like his name and
> address, phone and/or email if
> possible. Have you heard of many A-65s w/ mix
> control. I'm sure the L-4s had
> them in WWII but I don't know. Everyone says it's
> not needed. That's what
> they say about a chute in a Piet also.
> Did you receive the picture of YOUR brake parts
> mounted in MY Piet?
> Corky
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | corvair engine for sale |
group,
My freind who builds all sorts of stuff is wanting to sell one of his gear
driven Corvair engines, plus some various extras. the engine was on a very
unique experimental, which he decided he is not going to fly. ( The other
one he built is on a Piet).
Plus he has a prop hub ready to go on a standard Corvair engine, right to
Bernard Pietenpol's print, and the modified plate to replace the " stuff"
that is taken off the flywheel end of a Corvair.
For anyone who is interested, I can send pics, that show details of
construction, and phone numbers, etc.
walt
of walts Pietenpol factory
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: corvair engine for sale |
group,
Forgot to mention,,,My friend is an AP who has many homebuilts to his name,
retired toolmaker by trade, and EAA member # 00000000242. I've flown
behind engines that he has built, and they never even burped.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair engine for sale
>
> group,
> My freind who builds all sorts of stuff is wanting to sell one of his
gear
> driven Corvair engines, plus some various extras. the engine was on a
very
> unique experimental, which he decided he is not going to fly. ( The other
> one he built is on a Piet).
> Plus he has a prop hub ready to go on a standard Corvair engine, right to
> Bernard Pietenpol's print, and the modified plate to replace the " stuff"
> that is taken off the flywheel end of a Corvair.
> For anyone who is interested, I can send pics, that show details of
> construction, and phone numbers, etc.
> walt
> of walts Pietenpol factory
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david kowell <dkowell(at)cstone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: corvair engine for sale |
please send pics and details on covair thank you david kowell
walter evans wrote:
>
> group,
> My freind who builds all sorts of stuff is wanting to sell one of his gear
> driven Corvair engines, plus some various extras. the engine was on a very
> unique experimental, which he decided he is not going to fly. ( The other
> one he built is on a Piet).
> Plus he has a prop hub ready to go on a standard Corvair engine, right to
> Bernard Pietenpol's print, and the modified plate to replace the " stuff"
> that is taken off the flywheel end of a Corvair.
> For anyone who is interested, I can send pics, that show details of
> construction, and phone numbers, etc.
> walt
> of walts Pietenpol factory
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Emch" <emchair(at)cros.net> |
Hi group,
Does anybody out there have or know of a good serviceable pair of magnetos for
a Continental A-65?
Thanks!
Don Emch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michel Dierick" <michel.dierick(at)planetinternet.be> |
| Subject: | re : Stromberg Carb - easy handling ? |
Since a while, I am on the Pietenpol-list, following an article I read
on Alan James' G-BUCO
AOPA PILOT of this month has a article on the Cessna 120/140 (page
111)and
this is what they write on the Stromberg Carb :
" All Cessna 140-series airplanes were standard-equipped with a
Stromberg
NA-S3A1 carburetor, which employs a back suction restrictor plate on the
float bowl to control leaning. These carburetors don't have an idle
cutoff
feature.This means that the engine is shut down by turning off the
magnetos
and pushing open the throttle control. This carburetor is also sensitive
when
leaning, and most 140 pilots who are experienced with the Stromberg
carburetors tell newcomers to lean only above 5000 ft msl until they get
accustomed to the system's sensitivity, lest the engine quit. When
fueled
with anything other than 80-octane avgas, these carburetors also leak,
with
no known fix. Replacement with a more common, and more dependable,
Marvel
Schebler (nee Precision) MA3-SPA carburetor can be accomplished by STC.
Michel Dierick
Belgium
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Need a little help
>
> Pieters
> As I am before installing my A-65, I have that Stromberg Carb without
a
> mixture control device. Not being familiar with this device I would
greatly
> appreciate if some knowledgable soul would pour out his wisdom on this
> subject and guide me through the process so I can finalize my
instrument
> panel controls. I definitely want the mixture control if its available
> without too much adaptation or expense. I just don't know what's
involved.
> Thanks
> Corky in lean La
>
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: re : Stromberg Carb - easy handling ? |
Thanks Michel,
I will go with my Stromberg below 5K. My field el here is 180 so I should be
O K.
Corky in beautiful azalea covered Louisiana.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Mixture on Stromberg's |
Corky- Most guys just overhaul the 65 Cont. carb (in lots of cases
that is the NA-S3A1 carburetor.) On my Piet as well as our old Champ,
the mixture was safety wired in the full rich position. I've never had trouble
with fouled plugs and the engine runs well. I believe Steve Eldrege hooked up
a cable to his mixture control on his 65 Cont. carb, but then again he's
used to
flying anywhere from 4,000 to 10,000 msl. (like he did when he flew it to
Wisconsin
from Provo, Utah !!!)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "james cooper" <blugoos1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Continental C-85 propeller |
Can anyone advise me on the proper length and pitch for the prop on a
C-85 engine on a GN-1? Will a 74" prop with a 42 or 44" pitch for $500
from Hegy Propellers in Marfa, TX work O.K.? I prefer a climbing prop as
all of my flying will be around the local airport. I,m just taking up
flying after a 50 year lay-off. Thanks. Jim Cooper, Lafayette, Louisiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Continental C-85 propeller |
Hi James,
I don't think that prop will give you good climb performance with a C-85. I
had a C-85 on my Cessna 140 before replaceing it with an O-200, and the
CRUISE prop I had was a 71 x 48. My St Croix prop for my A-65 powered Piet
is a 74 x 36. Generally the higher powered engines need to rev a little
higher to get their full rated power (the O-200 in the 140 swings a 69 x
50), and I don't know if a C-85 can swing a 74" diameter and still hit its
rated RPM of 2575.
Check with Ray Hegy. He builds good props and should know better than
anyone how it will work.
Good Luck,
Jack Phillips
------Original Message------
From: "james cooper" <blugoos1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental C-85 propeller
Can anyone advise me on the proper length and pitch for the prop on a
C-85 engine on a GN-1? Will a 74" prop with a 42 or 44" pitch for $500
from Hegy Propellers in Marfa, TX work O.K.? I prefer a climbing prop as
all of my flying will be around the local airport. I,m just taking up
flying after a 50 year lay-off. Thanks. Jim Cooper, Lafayette, Louisiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
About the 7/32" plywood... isn't that 1/4" sanded-both-sides?
If you look at 1/2" and 3/4" A/B plywood it's actually marked 15/32" and
23/32".
Robert Haines
Murphysboro, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Robert,
One other consideration with high quality plywood is that a great
deal of it is now produced in Sweden, Norway and Russia....and is in
metric (mm) sizes. Many of the specialty wood shops are now producing
Dado head cutters in mm sizes in order to provide correct rabbet sizes
for high end cabinet builders, in order to provide precision fitting.
Cheers,
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Continental C-85 propeller |
Hey Jack,
I've a McCauley 71-48 which I intend to use with an A-65. How about those
apples? Let me know your opinion.
Corky, still in LA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mixture on Stromberg's |
Hi Mike,
On the mix control thing, I was just looking ahead for my global adventure
and thought I might need a little altitude to take some pictures looking down
into Mt Fuji.
Corky, haven't left La yet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
Hi Group
They also make 7/32 15/32 and 23/32 router bits for rabbit cuts on the
thinner plywood.
Dale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
Found this in some of my father's old files. Thought maybe someone might use
some of this info. If you know it just disregard
Clearance Limits for assembly of "A" Engines.
(Ford service bulletin, June 1931) All dimensions in inches.
Piston in cylinders-- .002 maximum
Piston ring gap, lower ring-- .008 to .010
Piston ring gap, centerring-- .010 to .012
Piston ring gap, upper ring-- .012 to .015
Ring groove clearance-- .001
Piston pin fit in connecting rod bushing--- .0003 max
Pin in piston-- .0002 to .0005 shrink fit
Pistons assembled with split side toward left side of engine.
Connecting rod side play on crankshaft-- .008 to .012
Connecting rod clearance between piston bosses-- .040 to .053
Connecting rod clearance on crankshaft diameter-- .001
Connecting rods assembled with oil dips toward camshaft
Crankshaft end play-- .002 to .004
Main bearing clearance-- .001
Camshaft bearing clearance --.003 max
Camshaft end play taken upby tention of spring in front cover. Spring tension
35 lbs
Valves to push rods clearance-- .010 to .013
Exhaust valves in valve guides -- .002
Intake valves in valve guides -- .001 to .0015
Valve lift -- .287
Push rod clearance --.0015
Timing gear backlash -- .004
End play of water pump shaft -- .006 to .010
Spark plug gap -- .035
Hope this might help someone.
Corky in ole ford country
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
Test
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
This just posted on Grant's BPA Web site in the "for sale" section.
(PS- I know nothing about this builder or plane......just passing along
what's below.)
4/12/01) 1998 Pietenpol for sale. New recover (from hail damage).
A-80 A&E engine. Lost medical. Plane has not been flown. Call or email
for pictures or questions. $10K firm. Bob Linton. Mineral Bluff, Georgia.
(706) 374-2356 email blinton(at)tds.net.
________________________________________________________________________________
Test what?
----- Original Message -----
From: <mboynton(at)excite.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Test
>
> Test
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet for sale |
Does Grant still maintain a website?
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet for sale
>
> This just posted on Grant's BPA Web site in the "for sale" section.
>
> (PS- I know nothing about this builder or plane......just passing along
> what's below.)
>
> 4/12/01) 1998 Pietenpol for sale. New recover (from hail damage).
> A-80 A&E engine. Lost medical. Plane has not been flown. Call or email
> for pictures or questions. $10K firm. Bob Linton. Mineral Bluff,
Georgia.
> (706) 374-2356 email blinton(at)tds.net.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet for sale |
Just a comment.....This fellow should wait till the sport pilot rating comes
out ( hopefully).
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet for sale
>
> This just posted on Grant's BPA Web site in the "for sale" section.
>
> (PS- I know nothing about this builder or plane......just passing along
> what's below.)
>
> 4/12/01) 1998 Pietenpol for sale. New recover (from hail damage).
> A-80 A&E engine. Lost medical. Plane has not been flown. Call or email
> for pictures or questions. $10K firm. Bob Linton. Mineral Bluff,
Georgia.
> (706) 374-2356 email blinton(at)tds.net.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
yeah, with the inactivity the last few days, I thought my email was broke
too.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: <mboynton(at)excite.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Test
>
> Test
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Piet for sale |
Amen, that is what I'm waiting for and if things follow the usual FEDERAL
(YANKEE)
pattern you'll probably see another Piet for sale.
Corky in CONFEDERATE La.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | leading and trailing edge |
I had posted earlier some drawings on my site that shows the way Mike C.
used stairway banister to make the leading edge for the wing. Its a really
March 09, 2001 - April 14, 2001
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bx