Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-by
April 14, 2001 - May 10, 2001
good idea and eliminates a lot of sanding. I had a hard time finding
banister around here for a reasonable price so I went a different route and
I thought I would share the way I did it. I went to a local lumber yard that
specializes in hard woods.
I had him cut me some poplar one and three quarter inch square. I took that
and made three cuts on it. The first cut gave me a piece I could use for the
trailing edge. The third cut was square to the first cut and it gave me a
piece that takes little cutting to form the leading edge. The poplar cost me
about $1.40 a foot so the whole deal cost about $50 for the two wings and
center section.
I posted a drawing of how I did it on my site. Here is the link to the
drawing.
http://bggifts.virtualave.net/cvle.GIF
I hope this might help someone save a buck or two.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | reiss_machinist(at)yahoo.com |
| Subject: | fuse fittings & side to side struts |
I have been studying the EAA 32-33 reprints of the
Flying & Glider Manual. My questions are about how
wood side to side fuselage struts interfere with the
inner lower engine mount fittings and the rear inner
center wing strut fittings.
Are theese fittings bolted in place on the fuselage
before the two fuselage sides are joined together?Do
the interfereing side to side struts have very large
corner blocks to connect to the fuselage sides besides
the plywood gussets?
I have searched the archive and have not found any
discussion about this. I was at Brodhead last july
for the meet, wish I had been aware of this question
at that time.
Thanks Larry Reiss
Omaha NE reiss_machinist(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuse fittings & side to side struts |
Larry,
If you're speaking of the brackets that attach the center struts to the top
of the fuselage,,,I put the outter ones in the center of the diagonal brace,
on the outside of the side ply. And the inner ones on the inner side of the
diagonals( picture the top ply and cross pieces not there)
I just slotted the ply , with my Dremmel Tool, where the bracket pops
through.
If this is what you are talking about, let me know, and I'll send you a pic
of what I did. Right or wrong, you can see mine.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: <reiss_machinist(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuse fittings & side to side struts
>
> I have been studying the EAA 32-33 reprints of the
> Flying & Glider Manual. My questions are about how
> wood side to side fuselage struts interfere with the
> inner lower engine mount fittings and the rear inner
> center wing strut fittings.
> Are theese fittings bolted in place on the fuselage
> before the two fuselage sides are joined together?Do
> the interfereing side to side struts have very large
> corner blocks to connect to the fuselage sides besides
> the plywood gussets?
> I have searched the archive and have not found any
> discussion about this. I was at Brodhead last july
> for the meet, wish I had been aware of this question
> at that time.
> Thanks Larry Reiss
> Omaha NE reiss_machinist(at)yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuse fittings & side to side struts |
In a message dated 4/14/01 3:48:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
reiss_machinist(at)yahoo.com writes:
> I have been studying the EAA 32-33 reprints of the
> Flying & Glider Manual. My questions are about how
> wood side to side fuselage struts interfere with the
> inner lower engine mount fittings and the rear inner
> center wing strut fittings.
> Are theese fittings bolted in place on the fuselage
> before the two fuselage sides are joined together?Do
> the interfereing side to side struts have very large
> corner blocks to connect to the fuselage sides besides
> the plywood gussets?
> I have searched the archive and have not found any
> discussion about this. I was at Brodhead last july
> for the meet, wish I had been aware of this question
> at that time.
> Thanks Larry Reiss
> Omaha NE reiss_machinist(at)yahoo.com
>
>
>
Larry,
I was at Broadhead last year also and had pictures of my aircamper.
If I am interpreting your question correctly, the cross members you are
refering to are trimmed short for clearance of the engine mount plates etc.
and I think I read that somewhere in the text of the 32 manual.
Are you building or going to build the 32 version? The 32 version is good,
but there are many improvements made in the 33 version (plans from Don
Pietenpol, Improved aircamper). Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi friends
Well,now i have the main landing gear for my Piet
finished, i start to make the tail wheel.
When i looking for the tail wheel, and i see many
options (fixed wheel, steering wheel, full swibel
wheel, etc) so what kind of tail wheel are you using?
or any suggestion?
all comments will be good.
By the way, anyone knows where i can find the
Aircamper Sim for Flight Simulator?
Thanks for your comments.
Javier Cruz
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Poem 'High Flight' |
Does anyone know where I can find the poem 'High Flight', by John Gellespie
Magee ? I've been surfing, and searching, to no avail.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RD" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Poem 'High Flight' |
Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air.
Up, up, up the long, delirious burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never Lark, or even Eagle flew -
And while with silent lifting mind, I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand and touched the face of God.
John Gillespie Magee, Jr.
1922-1941
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Poem 'High Flight'
>
> Does anyone know where I can find the poem 'High Flight', by John
Gellespie
> Magee ? I've been surfing, and searching, to no avail.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 4/14/01 11:34:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, javcr(at)yahoo.com
writes:
> Hi friends
> Well,now i have the main landing gear for my Piet
> finished, i start to make the tail wheel.
> When i looking for the tail wheel, and i see many
> options (fixed wheel, steering wheel, full swibel
> wheel, etc) so what kind of tail wheel are you using?
> or any suggestion?
> all comments will be good.
> By the way, anyone knows where i can find the
> Aircamper Sim for Flight Simulator?
> Thanks for your comments.
> Javier Cruz
>
>
>
I do not use a tail wheel on mine; just a skid, per the plans. It is so easy
to handle. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: A Engine Specs |
In a message dated 04/09/2001 5:27:33 PM Central Daylight Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
<< Pieters,
Found this in some of my father's old files. Thought maybe someone might use
some of this info. If you know it just disregard
Clearance Limits for assembly of "A" Engines. >>
Thanx Corky....now , would your fathers old files ( or any of the listers
files) reveal what the orifice or jet sizes are for the Model A (or peferably
the Model B, if different) Zenith carburetors ? I think I have narrowed
down my overly rich condition to aftermarket jets that are too large but
can't find info anywhere on what they should be. Don Hicks in Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: A Engine Specs |
Sorry,
Don't have that information but I'll check with Chuck Henley, an A owner and
specialist here in Shreveport, as soon as he gets home from church.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"Fishnet"
Just had one of those flying experiences that I won't ever forget. I had
just flown up to Sussex NJ to see if some Fisher flying buddies were there.
Met up with Bob cook with his Celebrity, and Scott Clarkson with a 404, and
Adam with a Kitfox. All have beautiful airplanes, and I always enjoy
looking them over.
I figured it was time to go, and this is where the fun begins. I climbed
out to the south, and had my eye on a plane off in front of me. Because the
404 cockpit is very small, with cabane struts to look through, it took me a
few moments to realize what was happening.
Something was hanging down in front of my face, right down to my belly, it
was warm and brushing my cheek. Couldn't believe it, it was a grey snake
comming out of the hole in the fabric where the rear spar brackets come out
of the wing. My only reaction was to grab it and fling it out the side. I
wish him soft landings.
Luckily I don't have a fear of snakes (good it wasn't bees or
spiders) or the situation could have been worse.
Bob and Scott,,,may all your flights be critter free.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A Engine Specs |
In a message dated 4/15/01 7:25:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
DonanClara(at)aol.com writes:
> Thanx Corky....now , would your fathers old files ( or any of the listers
> files) reveal what the orifice or jet sizes are for the Model A (or
> peferably
> the Model B, if different) Zenith carburetors ? I think I have narrowed
> down my overly rich condition to aftermarket jets that are too large but
> can't find info anywhere on what they should be. Don Hicks in Alabama
>
>
>
Don,
I have an extra model B carb at the airport. I will will measure the jet
orifices and post the numbers. I have two B carbs on planes and haven't had
an over rich condition. I use about 1/2 to 3/4 turn open on the main jet
adjustment and safety it there. The venturi on this extra carb is smaller
than the other two and when I flew the plane with this venturi it did not
have as much power (of course), but I didnt't have a mixture problem.
The after market B carbs are also good, But float and needle jet parts have
to be adapted as paarts are not available. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: A Engine Specs |
To Don Hicks,
Chuck Henley says:
An "A" Zenith has 5 jets
Listed will be the type jet, drill size and decimal equivalent.
Idle Jet 0 to 3K #75 .021 Jet Flow 30 sec 22to24 cc
3 to 5K #75 .021
5 + #76 .020
Compensator Jet 0 to 3K #65 .035 Jet Flow 30 sec 69to71 cc
3 to 5K #65 .035
5 + #66 .033
Cap Jet 0 to 3K #63 .037 Jet Flow 30 sec 80 to 83 cc
3 to 5K #64 .036
5K + #65 .035
Main Jet 0 to 3K #63 .037 Jet Flow 30 sec 70 to 75 cc
3 to 5K # 64 .036
5K + #65 .035
Secondary Well 0 to 3K #70 .028
#54 .055
3 to 5K #70 .028
#54 .055
5K + #70 .028
#54 .055
For Altitudes above 5K Flow should be 14% less than above chart
To change jet sizes, use solder and drill proper size
You may buy a video on zenith carbs from Snyder's 1 888 262 5712. Chuck says
it will answer ALL questions. He did say that if he could help any of our A
model Pieters call him at: Chuck Henley 318 686 3088 a GREAT guy. Hope this
answers your question;
Corky in A model country
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: A Engine Specs |
Thank you Chuck and thanks also to Doug Bryant for your great answers to my
inquiry. Both will be a BIG help and may also be helpful to others with Model
A engines. When they're over 70 years old it's hard to get parts or specs.
Just shows how valuable this discussion group is. Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mckellars" <mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net> |
I need some advice on the Corvair mount. I'm planning on using W.
Wynne's mount plans but can't decide how to attach the mount to the
firewall. The two options are using the mounting hardware per the
Pietenpol plans or using W. Wynne's motor mount plans with the spools
that bolt to a 3/4 in. ply firewall.Any advice would be greatly
appreciated.BTW, right now I have the 1/8 in. ply firewall with a piece
of .040 stainless sheet covering it. Thanks Mark McKellar
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair mount |
The only thing I can offer to this is this. I ordered
my motor mt from wm wynn more than a year ago and
hav'nt recieved it. Sometimes I can get ahold of him
by phone but most of the time not. never by email. If
anybody else talks to him please put a good word in
for me, maybe even a little pressure. I waited till
sun n fun is over now. If I can't get him to send it
now, I don't think it will be possible.
fuminfarmerdel
--- Mckellars wrote:
>
>
> I need some advice on the Corvair mount. I'm
> planning on using W.
> Wynne's mount plans but can't decide how to attach
> the mount to the
> firewall. The two options are using the mounting
> hardware per the
> Pietenpol plans or using W. Wynne's motor mount
> plans with the spools
> that bolt to a 3/4 in. ply firewall.Any advice would
> be greatly
> appreciated.BTW, right now I have the 1/8 in. ply
> firewall with a piece
> of .040 stainless sheet covering it. Thanks Mark
> McKellar
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | reiss_machinist(at)yahoo.com |
This is my second post, I should introduce my self. I am 47,have a
wife and kids and and have always been interested in airplanes. As a
little kid I remember playing in a taylorcraft sitting beside the
house that my dad was recovering and rebuilding. And going to fly in
breakfasts.Lots of stick and tissue rubber powered models.
I had the good fortune to grow up with a dad that was always
designing and building something.At an early age he let me learn to
use his lathe,drill press,band saw and welders. Saturday mornings we
would go shopping at 3 scrap yards for metal treasures and learning
aids to further my technical education. Sunday afternoons we would
visit my grand parents and I spent many hours out in their garage
reading ,grandpa had a collection of Popular Mechanics dating from
the early 40's. The older ones had a lot of good articles on making
things instead of buying them.
I have experimented with home made wind electric generators and
made a good start on a ritz standard ultralight ( it looks a lot like
a cirtiss junior). I have designed and built 2 recumbent bicycles,my
favorite having a short wheel base and front wheel drive.
I have studied the Flying & Glider Manuals in the small reading room
for several years and feel that I am close starting construction of
a air camper or a sky scout. I have 2 rough" A" engines. My plan is to
make every thing that I can myself, metal fittings and prop hub, and
carve my own propeller.
I have read a lot of the pietenpol archive and learned many helpful
building details. I am eagerly awaiting the news letter reprints.
Larry Reiss Omaha, NE reiss_machinist(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Ed G.) |
| Subject: | Corvair motor mount plans |
Hi everyone
Does anyone have a corvair motor mount plan they might be willing
to part with. I'm getting ready to start on my Franklin motor mount and
in the Piet manual Q & A section it says the mounts are almost
identical with some small mods.
I don't need the whole Supplemental plan set @ 48.00 so if someone
has a mount plan they would be willing to sell
let me know.
Ed G.
Palm Harbor Fl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Poem 'High Flight' |
Chuck, I would be glad to mail you a copy. Send me your address. Dave Boyd, Champaign,
IL
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Poem 'High Flight'
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 03:07:12 EDT
-- Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Does anyone know where I can find the poem 'High Flight', by John Gellespie
Magee ? I've been surfing, and searching, to no avail.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair motor mount plans |
In a message dated 4/16/01 7:59:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
flyboy_120(at)webtv.net writes:
> Hi everyone
> Does anyone have a corvair motor mount plan they might be willing
> to part with. I'm getting ready to start on my Franklin motor mount and
> in the Piet manual Q & A section it says the mounts are almost
> identical with some small mods.
> I don't need the whole Supplemental plan set @ 48.00 so if someone
> has a mount plan they would be willing to sell
>
Ed,
I have it in full size and an 8.5 by 11" which is faxable. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: critter flight |
How does one respond to that walt ..?
Glad it wasn't me.
Bob
>From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "piet discussion" , "Fishnet"
>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: critter flight
>Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 12:02:53 -0400
>
>
>
>Just had one of those flying experiences that I won't ever forget. I had
>just flown up to Sussex NJ to see if some Fisher flying buddies were
>there.
>Met up with Bob cook with his Celebrity, and Scott Clarkson with a 404, and
>Adam with a Kitfox. All have beautiful airplanes, and I always enjoy
>looking them over.
>I figured it was time to go, and this is where the fun begins. I climbed
>out to the south, and had my eye on a plane off in front of me. Because
>the
>404 cockpit is very small, with cabane struts to look through, it took me a
>few moments to realize what was happening.
>Something was hanging down in front of my face, right down to my belly, it
>was warm and brushing my cheek. Couldn't believe it, it was a grey snake
>comming out of the hole in the fabric where the rear spar brackets come out
>of the wing. My only reaction was to grab it and fling it out the side. I
>wish him soft landings.
> Luckily I don't have a fear of snakes (good it wasn't bees or
>spiders) or the situation could have been worse.
>Bob and Scott,,,may all your flights be critter free.
>walt
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mckellars" <mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net> |
I'm looking for a Corvair prop hub. Can't get in touch with W. Wynne.
Anyone have one for sale? Thanks Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 4/17/01 4:06:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net writes:
> I'm looking for a Corvair prop hub. Can't get in touch with W. Wynne.
> Anyone have one for sale? Thanks Mark
>
>
>
Vi kapler sells the entire package very nicely done. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RD" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | AirCamper.org domain back up |
www.AirCamper.org domain is back up. There may be fluctuations here and
there for a few days while the DNS entries sort themselves out, but for the
most part its back. If you have trouble getting to it, you can go directly
to http://aircamper.no-ip.com (which is where you'll end up anyway).
Many thanks to all who contributed!! It is very much appreciated!
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
04/17/2001 09:48:29 AM
Hi,
I'm back from Mike Cuy's neck of the woods, things look good for our move
up there sometime this summer.
I appreciate the difficulty getting hold of Wm. Wynne these days, but if
you do, he pretty much keeps his prop hubs in stock.
(someone else makes them for him). Compared to the examples of Vi Kaplars
work I've seen, I'd say it's worth the aggravation to get one from Wm.
This is not to say that Vi's work is not excellent, it is, but Wm's hubs
are superior in workmanship & finish, AND, you can easily
set up for a simple elctric start if you use one of Wm's. hubs - not
possible with Vi's. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm chicken when
it comes to hand-propping.
My other advice re Wm. is that if you really want to get hold of him, go
see him for a couple of days & take your unfinished engine & parts with
you,
I think it would be worth the trip.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator Trim Tab |
All my ribs are done and the spars will be put together in a week or
two. I'll also be starting on the tail feathers. Has anybody incorporated an
elevator trim tab? I think it would get really old having to constantly
apply stick pressure like they did in the Great War.(The Fokkers I fly now
do have an electric trim tab which is an improvement over the early D.VII
models).
Jeff in wide open Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Elevator Trim Tab |
Jeff, check out the trim links on this page
http://cvl.virtualave.net/mikedraw.htm
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Hill
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator Trim Tab
All my ribs are done and the spars will be put together in a week or
two. I'll also be starting on the tail feathers. Has anybody incorporated an
elevator trim tab? I think it would get really old having to constantly
apply stick pressure like they did in the Great War.(The Fokkers I fly now
do have an electric trim tab which is an improvement over the early D.VII
models).
Jeff in wide open Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
Jeff,
At the rate I am going my grandchildren will install the trim but
why not do something really simple like the very old Taylorcrafts.
They used a small wing under the horizontal stabilizer to provide
trim. Because it didn't move with the elevator the geometry is
pretty straight forward. I think they were used on the TCarts up
to about 1940. My '41 doesn't have it.
Dave
Retsof, NY
>
> All my ribs are done and the spars will be put together in a week or
>two. I'll also be starting on the tail feathers. Has anybody incorporated an
>elevator trim tab? I think it would get really old having to constantly
>apply stick pressure like they did in the Great War.(The Fokkers I fly now
>do have an electric trim tab which is an improvement over the early D.VII
>models).
>
> Jeff in wide open Texas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Dave & Connie wrote:
"At the rate I am going my grandchildren will install the trim but
why not do something really simple like the very old Taylorcrafts.
They used a small wing under the horizontal stabilizer to provide
trim. Because it didn't move with the elevator the geometry is
pretty straight forward. I think they were used on the TCarts up
to about 1940. My '41 doesn't have it.
Dave
Retsof, NY"
There was a Piet at Brodhead several years back that had the above trim
confiruration. If a remember correctly, the owner said that it didn't
work very well.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
In a message dated 4/17/01 11:59:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com writes:
> . Has anybody incorporated an
> elevator trim tab? I think it would get really old having to constantly
> apply stick pressure like they did in the Great War.(The Fokkers I fly now
> do have an electric trim tab which is an improvement over the early D.VII
> models).
>
> Jeff in wide open Texas
>
>
>
Jeff,
One way around the lack of an on purpose trim system is to rig the leading
edge of the horizintal stabilizer by adjusting the forward only turnbuckles
until it flies hands off at your weight. I read of this a few years ago in
an issue of the newsletter. This is way I did mine and it works very well
and is not visibly noticable. This took two or three tries (can't remember)
until I could fly hands off and lean back in the seat and begin to climb and
lean forward in the seat and begin to desend. What a kick!
Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mckellars" <mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net> |
I'm still looking for a prop hub and I still can't get in touch with
W.W..I did get my copy of W.W.'s conversion manual . Is there suppose to
be a copy of the prop hub plans with the manual? I didn't get the plans
with my manual. Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello friends
Mark, i get my W.W. convertion manual from Clarks and
it arrived fast and complete, same price.
Javier Cruz
working on the tail wheel.
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
In a message dated 4/17/01 11:30:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Doug413(at)aol.com
writes:
<< One way around the lack of an on purpose trim system is to rig the leading
edge of the horizintal stabilizer by adjusting the forward only turnbuckles
until it flies hands off at your weight. I read of this a few years ago in
an issue of the newsletter. This is way I did mine and it works very well
and is not visibly noticable. This took two or three tries (can't
remember)
until I could fly hands off and lean back in the seat and begin to climb and
lean forward in the seat and begin to desend. What a kick!
Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
>>
AWESOME way to fix the "trim" !! !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
>
> One way around the lack of an on purpose trim system
> is to rig the leading
> edge of the horizintal stabilizer by adjusting the
> forward only turnbuckles
> until it flies hands off at your weight.
Did you put turnbuckles on the front of the horiz
stab?
I wondered before about putting a little jackscrew
there and everybody thought I was nuts.
del
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
In a message dated 4/18/01 11:33:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com writes:
> Did you put turnbuckles on the front of the horiz
> stab?
> I wondered before about putting a little jackscrew
> there and everybody thought I was nuts.
> del
>
>
Del,
No, not at all. I just simply adjusted the forward turnbuckles to bring the
outboard section of the horzontal down (in my case because the plane nosed
over some when I let go of the stick) a very small amount. This puts, in
effect, some washout or twist in each side of the horizontal, but it is such
a small amount it is not visibly noticable. The rear edge of the horizontal
where the elevator hinge point is remains untouched (straight). Hope this is
clear, because it is very easy to do and worked great! I read this in an old
issue of the Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter, but cannot remember which one.
Nothing added to the airplane, just a tweak of what is already there.
Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Sport Pilot Changes |
Thank you Mr. Hansen for the update on the pending changes per Sport Pilot
and associated changes which will be more effective for aviation than
anything since the twenties. It will give aviation back to the people where
it belongs. You will see prices on aircraft materials reducing and best of
all you will see more vehicles in the air on weekend afternoons. I'm not
convinced that the professionals are that happy about the pending changes as
some of those are in power of authority to maintain what they have and to
hell with the little fellow who can't go out and pay those prices for
engines, instruments, avionics, spruce and other necessities of flying. Thank
God the enviornmentalists haven't gotten into the aviation sector.
I don't know how you might feel about this Sport Pilot deal. It won't effect
too many Pieters as they seem to be flying OK but there are many of us who
are beyond the age of passing a first or second class physical who will be
depending upon that driver's lic to pilot our Piet and if I determine I'm
mentally and physically capable of a little hop over the cotton fields I'd
sure like to have the priveledge to do so.
About all the indecision in Washington. It will continue UNLESS you get off
you a-- and let those politicians know how many votes there are out there who
are interested in the subject. That is the only language they understand. Pay
NO attention to what they say. They certainly don't. Put some political
pressure on FAA or this ruling will be no closer to completion next year than
it is now. They can't stand waves in Washington so let's get a little storm
going IF you want this rule passed. If you don't, well just continue to
follow the leads before you now like a bunch of blind sheep and be assured
there will be nothing happening.
Sure hope at least one or two of you feel as I do and please don't kick me
out of the club or off this web for saying what I strongly feel.
Corky in political La.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder hinge bolts |
After nearly a year of studying plans, moving house,studying plans, building
workshop, studying plans........I have finally made a start.
Thought I had better start with a couple of the smaller parts,so have made
up the tail fin and rudder and have bought a set of Vi Kaplers alloy hinges
to fit.
The problem is, having measured the bolt holes I find they appear to be 4mm
or 5/32" diameter.
Can anyone tell me where to buy suitable bolts for these hinges, (preferably
AN)
Rod
Western Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter Reprints |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sct.com> |
04/19/2001 07:34:41 AM
For all who sent me checks for Newsletter reprints:
Thanks to all for the patience. I mailed all the reprints on Monday.
I made a mistake in counting the pages and undercounted. I made up
for it by sending everything bookrate instead of priority mail. So, I
guess you shouldn't start looking to your mailboxes for a week or so.
I made an exception with copies to Alaska and Quebec which went
airmail.
I'm still waiting on checks for a couple of copies and I haven't
gotten the EAA copy off yet, but that just about wraps it up.
Mike Bell
Pietenpol under construction in the Gaston Airplane Factory (one side
of my garage)
Gaston, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder hinge bolts |
In a message dated 4/18/01 11:35:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rodwooller(at)hotmail.com writes:
> After nearly a year of studying plans, moving house,studying plans, building
> workshop, studying plans........I have finally made a start.
> Thought I had better start with a couple of the smaller parts,so have made
> up the tail fin and rudder and have bought a set of Vi Kaplers alloy hinges
> to fit.
> The problem is, having measured the bolt holes I find they appear to be 4mm
> or 5/32" diameter.
> Can anyone tell me where to buy suitable bolts for these hinges,
> (preferably
> AN)
>
> Rod
> Western Australia
>
>
>
Rod,
The plans call for 8-32 machine screws and the aluminum hinges from Vi Kapler
are countersunk so they screw need to be flat head. The dia of this size
screw is .164". No need for them to be AN. Hardware store machine screws
are fine. Aircraft Spruce is a good souce for these screws in AN as you
asked. Do you have a Spruce catalog? I Have a bunch of these screws in non
AN which is what I use on all my planes. If you want some, I will send them
to you. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
I had one on my 1930 Buhl Bull Pup and it didn't work at all !!
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
Don Hicks said:
> I had one on my 1930 Buhl Bull Pup and it didn't work at all !!
I know it's off topic, but please tell us more about that plane!
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter Reprints |
Mike,
My set arrived in the mail today -- not bad for a 1500 mile x-cross
country -- probably faster than a Piet pretending to be a Mailplane! ;-)
Mike Conkling
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sct.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA Newsletter Reprints
>
>
> For all who sent me checks for Newsletter reprints:
>
> Thanks to all for the patience. I mailed all the reprints on Monday.
>
> I made a mistake in counting the pages and undercounted. I made up
> for it by sending everything bookrate instead of priority mail. So, I
> guess you shouldn't start looking to your mailboxes for a week or so.
> I made an exception with copies to Alaska and Quebec which went
> airmail.
>
> I'm still waiting on checks for a couple of copies and I haven't
> gotten the EAA copy off yet, but that just about wraps it up.
>
> Mike Bell
> Pietenpol under construction in the Gaston Airplane Factory (one side
> of my garage)
> Gaston, SC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Hey gang, this is not piet related but the info wealth here is so great, my
friend has a 46 ercoupe with a 85 cont.
It starts fine when its cold but when he flies it for a while and lands, it
doesnt want to fire up. I suggested that it might be vapor lock, but the
only place where the fuel line could get hot is where it passes by the oil
bladder. We insulated that part to keep it cool and still didnt matter. Any
thoughts or ideas on this would be appreciated.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Carl- I'm no engine guru, but it sounds like your buddy might have a magneto
coil that "opens" up when it gets hot. Not an uncommon problem with some of
these old mags. If he's using the impulse mag only to prop it and that is
the one
with the open coil he should try the other mag to see if it will at least
spit. This
way he could isolate which mag is der problemo. A cool air duct back
there might
help as well. I dunno.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 04/19/2001 5:07:26 PM Central Daylight Time,
owen(at)davies.mv.com writes:
<< I know it's off topic, but please tell us more about that plane!
Owen Davies >>
For interested listers I'll tell you the basics and will give Owen or any
others the details direct if you let me know you'd like them.
100 Bull Pups were manufactured in 1929-30 in Marysville Mich. by Buhl
Aircraft under ATC #405. It was a single place, open cockpit, shoulder wing
monoplane powered by a 3-cyl Szekeley, 45 hp engine (pronounced zeek-lee by
many. say-kay by the family but was just plain Zeke to those who flew 'em) I
owned two of the five still on the books. You simply couldn't get a bigger
blast out of flying....unless it's a Pietenpol !!!
Don Hicks
Hartford, Al.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 4/20/01 7:37:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
skycarl(at)megsinet.net writes:
<< It starts fine when its cold but when he flies it for a while and lands, it
doesnt want to fire up. I suggested that it might be vapor lock, but the
only place where the fuel line could get hot is where it passes by the oil
bladder. We insulated that part to keep it cool and still didnt matter. Any
thoughts or ideas on this would be appreciated.
Carl >>
Carl,
Takes three things to make a fire, Air, Fuel and Flame (Spark)
I'd check the Spark, check the Mags, plug wires and plugs. Since fuel mixture
should be BETTER when its warm. Of course checking things like compression
would be easy when the plugs are taken out and checked.
(no engine expert however)
-dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
To add to what Dennis said, " Air, Fuel, Flame (Spark)", under the heading
of "Flame (Spark)", I would add also to check the timing.
Rodger
Piet in Bandera Tx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JOEL CARROLL <drcarroll_2000(at)yahoo.com> |
what about the coil on the mag? or condenser? what is
oil pressure? could engine be ready to seize? jkc
--- Carl Loar wrote:
>
>
> Hey gang, this is not piet related but the info
> wealth here is so great, my
> friend has a 46 ercoupe with a 85 cont.
> It starts fine when its cold but when he flies it
> for a while and lands, it
> doesnt want to fire up. I suggested that it might be
> vapor lock, but the
> only place where the fuel line could get hot is
> where it passes by the oil
> bladder. We insulated that part to keep it cool and
> still didnt matter. Any
> thoughts or ideas on this would be appreciated.
> Carl
>
> Please visit my website at
> www.megsinet.net/skycarl
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks to Jerry and Doug for the advice. I should be able to source some
suitable high tensile machine screws locally. It sure feels good to have
made a start.
cheers Rod W.
West Aussie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | News letter reprints: |
Great job Mike. Thanks a lot. Leon S. In
Kansas with head down in shame. My Piet is being built with a shop full
of Chinese made tools.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
| Subject: | Re: Sport Pilot Changes |
04/21/2001 08:43:38 AM
Corky,
Well, I cetainly don't object to you expressing an aviation-related
political opinion on the list, but I do take umbrage with your comment
about environmentalists. I am about as radical a tree-hugger as a person
can get & still be an omnivore & wear leather shoes & I don't have any
problem with the effect of sport aviation on the environment.
Frankly, a bigger threat to the future of sport aviation is the
now-immenent increase in fuel costs, mainly driven by the excessive
consumption of gasoline for personal automobile transportation (I'm tempted
to flame SUV drivers, but even without them, we still use way too much
gas).
A number of respected petroleum geologists, including some I work with, are
convinced that the extraction costs of remaining global oil reserves will
make petroleum economically unfeasible in 10-20 years. The loss of 100LL
will look like a minor issue by then. Aviation, particularly general
aviation accounts for a miniscule amount of the total global fuel
consumtion, but we are the only form of transportation that is totally
dependent on an easily-carried LIQUID fuel. There is still plenty of
extractable energy in the world in the form of coal and natural gas
(including a new form of natural gas deposits discovered by oceanographers
about 5 years ago that completely dwarfs the rest of all known global
reserves combined - unfortunately, no current technology can get at
economic quantities yet).
Ok, so I'm getting perhaps a bit too political myself, so I'll shut up. I
agree that we need to put pressure in the right places to get the Sport
Pilot rate approved. That is an issue that affects all of us Piet builders
(& hope-to-be builders)right now.
BTW, almost all Congressional representatives can now be reached by e-mail
through the Congressional web site, so let 'em have it. A few years ago a
friend of mine who is a lobbyist for a local conservation organization told
me that a congressman considers an issue important if he/she receives at
least 5 original (not form letter) letters expressing concern, so it
doesn't take much.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim <tbertw(at)tenbuckplans.com> |
Hi,
I am a new person on the list. I have just returned from Sun'N'Fun. I spent
the week attending the seminars and looking for the "next" project. I had
heard several thing about Piets before going. I attended a seminar on
building Piets. I then found Allan Wise's a/c parked. It is a very
interesting rendition of the Piet. I took about 25 photos of the plane to
study. Allan's sense of humor is awesome. I got to meet him and talked
casually with him for 20 minutes or so.
I am interested in getting the plans. At the seminar, they said there were
multiple sources for plans. I would like to hear any opinions on the
various sources. Also, if there are any Piets in the general vicinity of
Houston, I would love to go look at it/them!
I am in the pre-FAA inspection portion of a Challenger II building project.
It is complete and I need to complete the paper work and get it inspected.
Tim - Houston area
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Plans |
In a message dated 4/21/01 8:50:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
tbertw(at)tenbuckplans.com writes:
<< I am interested in getting the plans. At the seminar, they said there were
multiple sources for plans. I would like to hear any opinions on the
various sources. Also, if there are any Piets in the general vicinity of
Houston, I would love to go look at it/them! >>
Get ready for a FLURRY of responses !
Hope these URL's come out !
Buckeye Pietenpol
Association - Pietenpol Airplanes plans ordering info
www.AirCamper.org Info on Events,
Pietenpol Pictures, Suppliers, Building Tips and Images
Steve Eldredge's Hangar
Jeff Boatright - Brodhead 2000
Then there's Brodhead:
(WI) July 20, 2001 - July 22, 2001
Brodhead 2001 Pietenpol Reunion
This is the big one! Pietenpols gather from all over!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Plans |
04/21/2001 10:15:09 AM
In a message dated 4/21/01 8:50:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
tbertw(at)tenbuckplans.com writes:
<< I am interested in getting the plans. At the seminar, they said there
were
multiple sources for plans. I would like to hear any opinions on the
various sources. Also, if there are any Piets in the general vicinity of
Houston, I would love to go look at it/them! >>
Hi,
In addition, I would add that the primary source of plans is the Pietenpol
family. I'm in OH today at my wife's Grandpa's funeral, so I don't have
access to my bookmarks, but they have a web site with all the necessary
information. You can access it via a link on the BPA website. Also, there
are a number of people who sell supplemental plans & parts. Vi Kaplar sells
plans & parts and Kerri-Ann Price sells supplemental plans, although no one
seems to be able to get ahold of her at the moment. Same goes for a guy
named William Wynne, who sells plans for an awesomw Corvair conversion (did
anyone see him at Sun N' Fun?)
Like the guy said, get ready for a flurry of responses!
Cheers,
Kip gardner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ken breier" <kbreier(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Plans |
Yes William was at S&F. I bought am manual from him there, and saw his Piet.
----- Original Message -----
From: <kgardner(at)odu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Plans
>
>
> In a message dated 4/21/01 8:50:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> tbertw(at)tenbuckplans.com writes:
>
> << I am interested in getting the plans. At the seminar, they said there
> were
> multiple sources for plans. I would like to hear any opinions on the
> various sources. Also, if there are any Piets in the general vicinity of
> Houston, I would love to go look at it/them! >>
>
> Hi,
>
> In addition, I would add that the primary source of plans is the Pietenpol
> family. I'm in OH today at my wife's Grandpa's funeral, so I don't have
> access to my bookmarks, but they have a web site with all the necessary
> information. You can access it via a link on the BPA website. Also, there
> are a number of people who sell supplemental plans & parts. Vi Kaplar
sells
> plans & parts and Kerri-Ann Price sells supplemental plans, although no
one
> seems to be able to get ahold of her at the moment. Same goes for a guy
> named William Wynne, who sells plans for an awesomw Corvair conversion
(did
> anyone see him at Sun N' Fun?)
>
> Like the guy said, get ready for a flurry of responses!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kip gardner
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Plans |
In a message dated 4/21/01 5:50:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
tbertw(at)tenbuckplans.com writes:
> I am interested in getting the plans. At the seminar, they said there were
> multiple sources for plans. I would like to hear any opinions on the
> various sources. Also, if there are any Piets in the general vicinity of
> Houston, I would love to go look at it/them!
>
> I am in the pre-FAA inspection portion of a Challenger II building project.
> It is complete and I need to complete the paper work and get it inspected.
>
> Tim - Houston area
>
>
>
Tim,
The plans for the what is called the improved aircamper are available from:
Don Pietenpol
1604 Meadow Circle SE
Rochester, MN 55904-5436
His phone is (507) 289-2436
Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 4/21/01 7:20:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rodwooller(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< Thanks to Jerry and Doug for the advice. I should be able to source some
suitable high tensile machine screws locally. It sure feels good to have
made a start.
cheers Rod W.
West Aussie
>>
Are you using locally obtained wood ? Are you to the stage of building ribs
yet ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sport Pilot Changes |
Kip & all Pietsters!
Don't worry, There's plenty of oil, reports to the contrary are greatly
exaggerated! Extraction is not the problem, unless you factor in
environmental regulations which could drive prices way up. I'm constantly
amazed at the strides being made in drilling and extraction, and besides,
I've been hearing the "Chicken Little" 10-20 year oil thing for the last
20-30 years. Another point: If you don't believe unbridled environmentalism
causes massive price hikes and shortages, then just look at California's
energy mess! We'll all end up paying for that!
SUV's and supply and demand are not the cause of the gasoline price hikes.
It's OPEC. If we all parked our cars tomorrow, gas would cost the same -
maybe more! OPEC limits its oil output and therby sets the crude prices that
directly affects gasoline prices. Supply & demand may cause some minor
fluctuations, but are not the cause of overall higher prices.
We should also drill ANWR, and any other place that looks good for
production. Honestly, Prudhoe is a better place for animals thanks to the
oil industry.
Finally, On a pertinent note, Kudos to Mike Bell! I received my BPA
reprints today! What a goldmine!! Thanks Mike!
Corky - Hang in there buddy and keep building, you're gonna fly that Piet
yet! I think the new certificate class is something the FAA may do right,
and will provide another shot-in-the-arm for aviation!
Gary Meadows
Working on landing gear in Texas!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sport Pilot Changes |
From what I hear, it's not so much OPEC which causes the excessive, and
rising price of gasoline, but rather, a long and steady increase in per
gallon gasoline TAXES !
I've been watching the price of gas for years. And as I recall, during the
early 1980's, the price for a bbl of crude was over $30.00. Gas per gal
was 1.27.
Now crude is maybe 28.00 per bbl., and a gal of car gas here is 1.48 .
What I wish, is that the amount of each gas tax increase , it's date of
increse, and the number of past tax increases be posted on the pump.
We would still be a frog, slow cooking in a pot, but at least we could keep
track of the tempature as it goes up..
Bob
>From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Changes
>Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 06:52:12 -0000
>
>
>
>Kip & all Pietsters!
>
> Don't worry, There's plenty of oil, reports to the contrary are greatly
>exaggerated! Extraction is not the problem, unless you factor in
>environmental regulations which could drive prices way up. I'm constantly
>amazed at the strides being made in drilling and extraction, and besides,
>I've been hearing the "Chicken Little" 10-20 year oil thing for the last
>20-30 years. Another point: If you don't believe unbridled environmentalism
>causes massive price hikes and shortages, then just look at California's
>energy mess! We'll all end up paying for that!
>
> SUV's and supply and demand are not the cause of the gasoline price
>hikes.
>It's OPEC. If we all parked our cars tomorrow, gas would cost the same -
>maybe more! OPEC limits its oil output and therby sets the crude prices
>that
>directly affects gasoline prices. Supply & demand may cause some minor
>fluctuations, but are not the cause of overall higher prices.
>
> We should also drill ANWR, and any other place that looks good for
>production. Honestly, Prudhoe is a better place for animals thanks to the
>oil industry.
>
> Finally, On a pertinent note, Kudos to Mike Bell! I received my BPA
>reprints today! What a goldmine!! Thanks Mike!
>
> Corky - Hang in there buddy and keep building, you're gonna fly that
>Piet
>yet! I think the new certificate class is something the FAA may do right,
>and will provide another shot-in-the-arm for aviation!
>
>Gary Meadows
>Working on landing gear in Texas!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com> |
I am using Douglas Fir (known as Oregon over here)as spruce is impossible to
find in Western Australia.
Wing ribs are a long way off as I intend to finish the tail feathers first
and then make a start on the fuselage.
When it comes to the spars and ribs I will probably get some Hoop Pine sent
over from Queensland.
Rod W.
>From: Dmott9(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: re-hinges
>Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 20:53:21 EDT
>
>
>In a message dated 4/21/01 7:20:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>rodwooller(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
><< Thanks to Jerry and Doug for the advice. I should be able to source some
> suitable high tensile machine screws locally. It sure feels good to have
> made a start.
>
> cheers Rod W.
> West Aussie
> >>
>
>Are you using locally obtained wood ? Are you to the stage of building
>ribs
>yet ?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neal Hinson" <nhh76(at)hotmail.com> |
I have some flat grain hemlock that would make great spars, however, they are flat
grain (not vertical grain). Is this a strength issue, or something else? any
input?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: vertical grain? |
In a message dated 4/22/01 11:35:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
nhh76(at)hotmail.com writes:
> I have some flat grain hemlock that would make great spars, however, they
> are flat grain (not vertical grain). Is this a strength issue, or
> something else? any input?
>
>
Neal,
It is not a strength issue. It is that wood expands the least in the
direction across the grain. That is why vertical grain (quarter sawn) wood
is used for spars. If flat grain were used, it could expand and break the
cap strips off the ribs. The hemlock could be ripped, stacked (laminated)
and then planed, but that would be a lot of work, or used for some other part
of the airplane. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesJboyer(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 4/22/2001 12:59:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
rodwooller(at)hotmail.com writes:
> When it comes to the spars and ribs I will probably get some Hoop Pine sent
> over from Queensland.
>
Hi Rod,
My Piet is 100% Douglas Fir, except for Mahogany Marine plywood where ply is
called out. Doug Fir will make beautiful spars and ribs. I have all the ribs
done, wing center section, all spars, all tail surfaces, and fuselage all
framed including seats.
All I am working on now is the fittings (steel Work).
Cheers, Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vertical grain? |
Flat grain wood, also called plain sawn, has a tendency to warp in a cup
shape from it's edges.
Quarter sawn wood has a tendency to just expand and contract in a vertical
direction.
The point is, with quarter sawn wood, there is much less a tendency for a
spar to warp away from the origonal shape.
Bob
>From: "Neal Hinson" <nhh76(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: vertical grain?
>Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 12:34:10 -0600
>
>
>
>
>
>
I have some flat grain hemlock that would make great spars, however,
>they are flat grain (not vertical grain). Is this a strength issue,
>or something else? any input?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
| Subject: | Re: Sport Pilot Changes |
04/23/2001 10:02:32 AM
Well, I guess I opened a can of worms, but I stick by my position. It's not
OPEC, not Taxes,
not Environmental Regs., it is the fact that production on all producing
world reserves peaked
about 5 years ago and consumption continues to increase, particularly in
the U.S. The AWNR & other
possible sources notwithstanding (such as the untapped reserves in Asian
Russia, the world supply
is now diminishing measurably. Yes I know there have been 'chicken little'
scares on this issue in the past
(I got my driver's license during the 1975 oil 'shortage'), but this time
the consensus of opinion
among scientists who don't have a vested intrest in the oil industry (and
in fact, among some who do)
is that this time scale (10-20 years) for the endpoint of economically
extractable oil is real.
Fully utilizing improved technologies only adds about 20 years to that.
BTW, the first time I saw the analysis of this
was in a Scientific American article in 1995 written by a couple of oil
industry petroleum geologists
who did an exhaustive review of over 90 years of oil exploration and
production data.
There have been several follow-on studies in the academic press since then,
all of which have
confirmed the original conclusion. The mainstream press has completely
ignored this information.
That's all I'm going to say about it unless someone wants to discuss it
off-group.
To get back to the issue that affects us a Pietenpol folk - get active in
the debate over the shape of the
new Sport Pilot Rating rules, they will affect the way all of us fly one
way or the other.
Kip Gardner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
| Subject: | BPA Newsletter Copy |
04/23/2001 10:11:43 AM
Mike,
I recieved the Newletter reprint while I was away in OH at my
Grandfather-in-Law's
funeral. Got home late last night it looks great!
Thanks to you & your wife for all the effort.
Kip Gardner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Radial Engine Available for Piet........ |
Guys- was down to see Frank Pavliga yesterday. He's got an ad
in Trade-A-Plane right now that goes like this:
MP-3 3 cyl. radial (Russian) engine, 110 hp.
New, run in time only. All accessories including
Pietenpol engine mount, air starter, oil tank, & exhaust.
$ 1,500. Day: 330-702-0080 Eves. after 9 pm 330-325-3408
He's not got time to fiddle with it as he's got other projects going on
right now. He's run it on a test stand a few times and I guess it runs
smooth, very well. He can fill you in on all the details.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
| Subject: | Re: Radial Engine Available for Piet........ |
04/23/2001 01:00:18 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
cc:
bcc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radial Engine Available for Piet........
Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
04/23/2001 11:56 AM AST
Please respond to pietenpol-list
Guys- was down to see Frank Pavliga yesterday. He's got an ad
in Trade-A-Plane right now that goes like this:
MP-3 3 cyl. radial (Russian) engine, 110 hp.
New, run in time only. All accessories including
Pietenpol engine mount, air starter, oil tank, & exhaust.
$ 1,500. Day: 330-702-0080 Eves. after 9 pm 330-325-3408
He's not got time to fiddle with it as he's got other projects going on
right now. He's run it on a test stand a few times and I guess it runs
smooth, very well. He can fill you in on all the details.
Mike C.
Mike,
Sounds like a kick! I've been aboard a Russian AN-2
that our research group used for some remote sensing
flights in the Bahamas. It uses a bigger version of
this series engine (MP-9 maybe?). Anyway, if you put
it on a Piet everyone would sure know you were coming!
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Ellenberger" <kenmike(at)isrv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter Reprints |
Hi Mike,
I got my reprints last week, and wanted to thank you for making them
available. I haven't started construction yet, but hope to soon.
Many thanks,
Mike Ellenberger
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sct.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA Newsletter Reprints
>
>
> For all who sent me checks for Newsletter reprints:
>
> Thanks to all for the patience. I mailed all the reprints on Monday.
>
> I made a mistake in counting the pages and undercounted. I made up
> for it by sending everything bookrate instead of priority mail. So, I
> guess you shouldn't start looking to your mailboxes for a week or so.
> I made an exception with copies to Alaska and Quebec which went
> airmail.
>
> I'm still waiting on checks for a couple of copies and I haven't
> gotten the EAA copy off yet, but that just about wraps it up.
>
> Mike Bell
> Pietenpol under construction in the Gaston Airplane Factory (one side
> of my garage)
> Gaston, SC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "SAM & JAN MARINUCCI" <srmjem(at)ezol.com> |
Mike,
I got the news letters a few days ago but I was too engrossed in them
at the time to let you know that I received them. Of course, I haven't read
them all yet but did scan each page so far. What a wealth of information
contained in them. My only regret is.....my reading time is cutting into my
building time:)
Thanks,
Sam
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Williams" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
Help-Help-Help
Just when I think I have it all figured out, something humbles me. This time it's
my magneto. Time to poll the audience.
I have a Bendix (scintilla) with an impulse coupling mounted on my "A" per Mr.
Pietenpol's plans. On the bench with plugs on the wires, I can turn over the mag
drive and watch each plug fire, in order, with each 360 degree rotation. The
impulse coupler clicks and the next plug fires. I'm on
my way, right? Nope!
I put the same mag, wires, plugs et al on the engine and I only get #1 and #3 to
fire!! In other words, it fires a plug each 720 degrees so #2 and #4 get skipped
even though the impulse coupler is still working each 360 degrees. There
is evidence that the same thing occurs when the engine is up to speed as there
is no soot in the corresponding exhaust pipes and no evidence of carbon on the
plugs. What gives??
The good news is that despite my misgivings about the engine being so tight and
with only half the cylinders firing, IT DOES RUN!!! I'm sure it's
going to be a lot easier to start and much smoother running when I can get all
four to light off.
Thanks in advance for your input
f"http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Larry glad to hear your engine is turning over smoothly. I know this
sounds simple but if you know the mag is working but your firing on only two
cylinders you might check your firing order and direction of rotation of the
wires in the cap. If the wires were in the cap in the wrong sequence two of
the the plugs could be firing on a non- compression stroke such as exhaust.
It's worth checking if you haven't already. If the spark plugs aren't
sparking then it's in the mag or the wires or plugs.
Ed G.
>From: "Larry Williams" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "Pietenpol-List Digest Server"
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mags
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:06:33 -0400
>
>
>Help-Help-Help
>
>Just when I think I have it all figured out, something humbles me. This t>ime
it's my magneto. Time to poll the audience.
>
>I have a Bendix (scintilla) with an impulse coupling mounted on my "A" pe>r Mr.
Pietenpol's plans. On the bench with plugs on the wires, I can turn> over the
mag drive and watch each plug fire, in order, with each 360 deg>ree rotation.
The impulse coupler clicks and the next plug fires. I'm on
>my way, right? Nope!
>
>I put the same mag, wires, plugs et al on the engine and I only get #1 an>d #3
to fire!! In other words, it fires a plug each 720 degrees so #2 and> #4 get
skipped even though the impulse coupler is still working each
>360=> up to speed as there is no soot in the corresponding exhaust pipes
>degrees. There is evidence that the same thing occurs when the engine isand n>o
evidence of carbon on the plugs. What gives??
>
>The good news is that despite my misgivings about the engine being so tig>ht and
with only half the cylinders firing, IT DOES RUN!!! I'm sure it's
>going to be a lot easier to start and much smoother running when I can ge>t all
four to light off.
>
>Thanks in advance for your input
>
>f"http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Seibert" <r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com> |
I just got word that there is a "Parasol Airplanes" flyin coming up on
29 June and 1 July. It is at Osage Beach, Missouri - Grand Glaize
Airport (K15).
The flyer I saw said more info was available at
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com
or
email at acepilot(at)bloomer.net
I didn't rally spot anything else about the flyin but its a pretty neat
site! Anybody going?
Regards,
Bob Seibert
Taylor, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Radial Engine Available for Piet........ |
In a message dated 4/23/01 10:58:46 AM Central Daylight Time,
Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes:
Hi Guys,
Just got off the phone with Frank Pavliga, what a nice guy. I told him
to box up that Radial Engine, I'm on my way. Just sounds perfect for me.
My Piet is ready for an engine and I did not have one yet. Now, does anyone
speak Russian? I need to get a prop and I think they are in Russia.
Scott Dufreche
Down in Texas.
<< Guys- was down to see Frank Pavliga yesterday. He's got an ad
in Trade-A-Plane right now that goes like this:
MP-3 3 cyl. radial (Russian) engine, 110 hp.
New, run in time only. All accessories including
Pietenpol engine mount, air starter, oil tank, & exhaust.
$ 1,500. Day: 330-702-0080 Eves. after 9 pm 330-325-3408
He's not got time to fiddle with it as he's got other projects going on
right now. He's run it on a test stand a few times and I guess it runs
smooth, very well. He can fill you in on all the details.
Mike C. >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Parasol Flyin |
FYI,
If you want to keep track of this Parasol group, they have formed a yahoo
group at the following address. Not a very active list, but they are piet
friendly, whether made from wood or steel, to-plans or modified. They even
welcome (gasp) GN-1's. :)
Joe
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ParasolAirplanes
>From: "Bob Seibert" <r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com>
>I just got word that there is a "Parasol Airplanes" flyin coming up on
>29 June and 1 July. It is at Osage Beach, Missouri - Grand Glaize
>Airport (K15).
>The flyer I saw said more info was available at
>http://corbenflyer.tripod.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Radial Engine Available for Piet........ |
Scott,
Where are you located in Texas? I am in Dallas
and may be able to help you if you are in the
area.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
----- Original Message -----
From: <Teal38(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radial Engine Available for Piet........
>
> In a message dated 4/23/01 10:58:46 AM Central Daylight Time,
> Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes:
>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Just got off the phone with Frank Pavliga, what a nice guy. I told
him
> to box up that Radial Engine, I'm on my way. Just sounds perfect for
me.
> My Piet is ready for an engine and I did not have one yet. Now, does
anyone
> speak Russian? I need to get a prop and I think they are in Russia.
>
> Scott Dufreche
> Down in Texas.
>
>
> << Guys- was down to see Frank Pavliga yesterday. He's got an ad
> in Trade-A-Plane right now that goes like this:
>
> MP-3 3 cyl. radial (Russian) engine, 110 hp.
> New, run in time only. All accessories including
> Pietenpol engine mount, air starter, oil tank, & exhaust.
> $ 1,500. Day: 330-702-0080 Eves. after 9 pm 330-325-3408
>
> He's not got time to fiddle with it as he's got other projects going on
> right now. He's run it on a test stand a few times and I guess it runs
> smooth, very well. He can fill you in on all the details.
>
> Mike C. >>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Radial Engine Available for Piet........ |
Mike,
And anyone else who is working on a Piet. I am in Sanger TX. Just up the
road from DFW airport. About 15 minutes north of Denton. I live on the Bar
VK airpark. TX32. Flyin visit are always welcome. We are doing some work
on the runway with in the next couple of days. Email or call if you want to
stop by. 940-458-5612
Scott.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi guys
I would like to have more information on the 110 hp
russian radial engine, someone have more information?
Javier Cruz
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Wilcox" <CraigWilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: radial engine |
Me, too!
Craig
Still working on the Bakeng Duce tail!
----- Original Message -----
From: "javier cruz" <javcr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: radial engine
>
> Hi guys
> I would like to have more information on the 110 hp
> russian radial engine, someone have more information?
> Javier Cruz
>
>
> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Williams" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
Ed
I have checked and the plug wires are in the correct sequence. It really
doesn't matter if the piston is on compression or exhaust as the plug fires each
time the piston comes to the top of it's stroke.(driven off the crank, dontcha
know)
Anyway, life goes on. I have been told that the engine is probably firing on all
4 if it keeps running. Makes sense but then why do only two pipes show soot
and the corresponding plugs have no carbon on them? Sure wish
Mr. Pietenpol was in my garage right now.
Maybe I should quit messing with the engine and get busy finishing my wings. This
strike won't last forever!!
f"http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lou Larsen" <pietlars(at)gate.net> |
| Subject: | Props for Model A Piet |
I am ready to acquire a prop for my A powered Piet; need some input from
folks who gone down this road before.
Plant to purchase a prop and am currently considering a 76 x 42 prop as
Howard Henderson used on his bird after making 3 different props . (per
info in one of the old BPA newsletters)
That seems to be a good choice ; of course I have no experience to judge
by except that Howard seemed to be a very savvy guy and he produced an
excellent piet.
Like to hear some thoughts and / or experienced comments.
I have a rebuilt A with a pressure lube system, using a distributer
mount WICO X magneto. It starts and runs very nicely but a little
rough at higher RPMs ; Working on getting the bugs out now.
Thanks
Lou Larsen
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 4/24/01 5:37:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lnawms(at)msn.com
writes:
> I have checked and the plug wires are in the correct sequence. It really
> doesn't matter if the piston is on compression or exhaust as the plug fir> es
each time the piston comes to the top of it's stroke.(driven off the c> rank,
dontcha know)
>
> Anyway, life goes on. I have been told that the engine is probably firing> on
all 4 if it keeps running. Makes sense but then why do only two pipes> show soot
and the corresponding plugs have no carbon on them? Sure wish
> Mr. Pietenpol was in my garage right now.
>
>
Larry,
I was able to get my A to run on one cylinder when I was having mag problems.
I only had one spark olug installed just to see if it would fire once. It
started and ran on one cylinder; sur sounded funny. I have two complete A
piets now (the second one I built with a partner, Chuck Gantzer) neither one
have impulse couplers and start very easily. I have heard bad things about
those scintilla mags from time to time, but not could not sustantiate any of
the information now.
I do believe that the mag, being crank driven, should actually be designed to
run its distributor at half crank speed by the gear ratio internal to the
mag. On both of the mags I have now, I had to change the magnetic rotors to
get them to run the opposite direction accounting for the engine being
backwards in the airframe.
I'm not sure if your impulse coupler is the culprit, or a weak lobe in the
distributor. Also, I was told by the good folks at Chicago Magneto Company
(1-800-magneto) to use solid copper wires; I switched and my problems went
away. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Me too,
Does anyone know of a source for these.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: javier cruz [SMTP:javcr(at)yahoo.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: radial engine
Hi guys
I would like to have more information on the 110 hp
russian radial engine, someone have more information?
Javier Cruz
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> |
Larry;
I believe Doug is right, that mag should not be run 1:1 with the crank.
Unfortunately, I don't have my books here, and there's too many miles under
my hood to remember what the ratio was. 2:1 or 4:1.........
Chris House
Piet builder and proud new owner of a cabin Waco
----- Original Message -----
From: <Doug413(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Magneto
>
> In a message dated 4/24/01 5:37:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
lnawms(at)msn.com
> writes:
>
>
> > I have checked and the plug wires are in the correct sequence. It really
> > doesn't matter if the piston is on compression or exhaust as the plug
fir> > es each time the piston comes to the top of it's stroke.(driven off the
c> > rank, dontcha know)
> >
> > Anyway, life goes on. I have been told that the engine is probably
firing> > on all 4 if it keeps running. Makes sense but then why do only two
pipes> > show soot and the corresponding plugs have no carbon on them? Sure wish
> > Mr. Pietenpol was in my garage right now.
> >
> >
>
> Larry,
>
> I was able to get my A to run on one cylinder when I was having mag
problems.
> I only had one spark olug installed just to see if it would fire once.
It
> started and ran on one cylinder; sur sounded funny. I have two complete A
> piets now (the second one I built with a partner, Chuck Gantzer) neither
one
> have impulse couplers and start very easily. I have heard bad things
about
> those scintilla mags from time to time, but not could not sustantiate any
of
> the information now.
>
> I do believe that the mag, being crank driven, should actually be designed
to
> run its distributor at half crank speed by the gear ratio internal to the
> mag. On both of the mags I have now, I had to change the magnetic rotors
to
> get them to run the opposite direction accounting for the engine being
> backwards in the airframe.
>
> I'm not sure if your impulse coupler is the culprit, or a weak lobe in the
> distributor. Also, I was told by the good folks at Chicago Magneto
Company
> (1-800-magneto) to use solid copper wires; I switched and my problems went
> away. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Props for Model A Piet |
In a message dated 4/24/01 6:05:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
pietlars(at)gate.net writes:
> I am ready to acquire a prop for my A powered Piet; need some input from
> folks who gone down this road before.
>
> Plant to purchase a prop and am currently considering a 76 x 42 prop as
> Howard Henderson used on his bird after making 3 different props . (per
> info in one of the old BPA newsletters)
>
> That seems to be a good choice ; of course I have no experience to judge
> by except that Howard seemed to be a very savvy guy and he produced an
> excellent piet.
>
>
Lou,
When I read the Piet manual from Don pietenpol, It stated to to use a 48'
pitch and the plans call for a 76' dia prop. So, I bought the prop plan from
Orin Hoopman and built it. It is as close to 48' as I can measure. It gives
very nice cruise perofmance ( a full 70 MPH @ about 1650 RPM), but is weak on
climb with two people, fine with one. Because of that I don't carry a
passenger, but like the cruise performance. I have a nice article on Howards
piet in Feb 1989 Sport aviation and have spent a good deal of time chatting
with him on the Ham radio net some time ago. He mentioned that his prop was
a 72/42 and his plane cruised 60ish @ 1750 RPM. I made a note of it in my
magizine at that time so I wouldn't forget. His plane would carry two with
this prop and he gave lots of rides a Broadhead I am told. Sounds like your
choice of 76/42 might be a great compromise for good climb with two and good
cruise also. I know that cruise is not all that important in a piet, but I
like the way it planes at 70, so for now am happy with my 76/48 . Press on.
Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
I saw one of these engines last week. A friend of mine has a Russian Yak
55M with the 360 HP M-14P 9 cylinder radial engine. He bought one of these
three cylinder engines just to have three spare jugs for his Yak. It is the
same engine as the M-14P, but with six cylinders removed and plates bolted
over the holes in the crankcase! Very strong, but also very heavy for the
horsepower. I'll see him this weekend and will find out where he bought it
and where can you get parts for it.
Jack Phillips
------Original Message------
From: javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: radial engine
Hi guys
I would like to have more information on the 110 hp
russian radial engine, someone have more information?
Javier Cruz
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
I would also like information on the Russian Engine, anyone found a web
site?
Also...
Here's one for you Model-A engine gurus, which engine stud is the ignition
stud (the stud that is 1/4" longer than the rest). Also, why is it longer?
Robert Haines
Murphysboro, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
The way I check to make sure that I'm getting fire to a cylinder and my
problem isn't timing or plug wires crossed, is to use a timing light. You
can connect the timing light to each plug wire and if you get a flash then
there is fire on the plug. If not then there is either no fire to the plug
or the plug is fouled. This helped me a bunch. On none electric start
engines, I use a lawn mower 12v battery and hook the timing light up to it
normally. I then tie the ground of the battery to the engine and this makes
the circuit more stable to detect the high voltage field that is in the
spark plug wires.
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"piet discussion"
| Subject: | can I please pick the brains of all prop carvers? |
I'm just now at a point where I'm ready to cover, and I think that I've got
a lead on a certified prop for the A65 Cont. going on an AirCamper.
But from the day I recieved the plans , I've dreamed of having my hand
carved prop on the front. Seems when anyone walks down the flightline at a
fly-in, the first thing they see is the front of the plane and the prop!
Some of these props are so beautiful, they bring tears to your eyes. And I
want to have the knowledge to make one.
Here's where the questions start.....
Many laminations look good, but they say that three laminations hold up just
as well.?
Carving one seems to be settled in my head, with all the techniques that
I've seen, but the choosing of wood ,,and the grain thing,,,and laying the
grain together,,,and what wood to use, and not to use ,,that's what
confusing.
Think I fell in love with the prop look when I saw Jim Malley's Piet and
prop in Kitplanes,long time ago.(still have the issue)
I had disected a busted Sensinich prop from an old Piper J2, and it seems
the laminations are about 1/4 to 3/8" thick, with the grain with circular
"smiles" that are back to back through the whole prop.
What's the poop on props?
Can everyone tell me what they know??
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
The center stud just behind the distributor held the armoured primary cable
with a clip of various design depending on the factory and year. It would
have no bearing on a magneto fired engine.
A bit on the mag firing problem.
Aircraft mags are usually run at 1/2 crank speed. and the older tractor type
mags that Bernies plans show driven fron the crank have a geared distributor
and they then fire two cylinders per rev.
The use of carbon core wires on a mag may lead to misfires as the increase
in secondary circuit resistance causes a higher voltage. Some mags have a
"safety gap" that allows the secondary winding , mag output, to fire to
ground above a predetermined voltage. This protects the insulation of the
secondary winding. Solid core wire will fire the plug at a lower voltage.
The missing cylinders could be a result of un even mixture distribution and
a marginal spark.
One trick I use to find out if a cylinder is firing is to slide the point of
a grounded twelve volt incandescent test light between the plug wire and the
boot until it touches the HT terminal. the cylinder then misfires if it was
producing power. No change indicates a dud cylinder.
The High secondary voltage only builds high enough to over come circuit
resistance. lower the resistance lower firing voltages. This method prevents
coil damage from trying to fire an open secondary lead. It also reduces the
chance of me being on the receiving end of mag.
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Haines <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A-engine
>
> I would also like information on the Russian Engine, anyone found a web
> site?
>
> Also...
>
> Here's one for you Model-A engine gurus, which engine stud is the ignition
> stud (the stud that is 1/4" longer than the rest). Also, why is it
longer?
>
>
> Robert Haines
> Murphysboro, Illinois
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dkowell(at)cstone.net |
| Subject: | can I please pick the brains of all prop carvers? |
if you want to know how to carve a prop call my brother at 518 5875873 his name
is paul
he has don a few at about 40.00 a pop it is really simple and the the jig to
make them can
be made from parts you can buy at most hardeware stores david kowell
> ** Original Subject: Pietenpol-List: can I please pick the brains of all prop
carvers?
> ** Original Sender: "walter evans"
> ** Original Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 19:33:18 -0400 (EDT)
> ** Original Message follows...
>
>
> I'm just now at a point where I'm ready to cover, and I think that I've got
> a lead on a certified prop for the A65 Cont. going on an AirCamper.
> But from the day I recieved the plans , I've dreamed of having my hand
> carved prop on the front. Seems when anyone walks down the flightline at a
> fly-in, the first thing they see is the front of the plane and the prop!
> Some of these props are so beautiful, they bring tears to your eyes. And I
> want to have the knowledge to make one.
> Here's where the questions start.....
> Many laminations look good, but they say that three laminations hold up just
> as well.?
> Carving one seems to be settled in my head, with all the techniques that
> I've seen, but the choosing of wood ,,and the grain thing,,,and laying the
> grain together,,,and what wood to use, and not to use ,,that's what
> confusing.
> Think I fell in love with the prop look when I saw Jim Malley's Piet and
> prop in Kitplanes,long time ago.(still have the issue)
> I had disected a busted Sensinich prop from an old Piper J2, and it seems
> the laminations are about 1/4 to 3/8" thick, with the grain with circular
> "smiles" that are back to back through the whole prop.
> What's the poop on props?
> Can everyone tell me what they know??
> walt
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _-
============================================================
> _-
============================================================
> _-
============================================================
> _-
============================================================
>
>
>
>** --------- End Original Message ----------- **
>
Download NeoPlanet at http://www.neoplanet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: can I please pick the brains of all prop carvers? |
David Kowell suggested:
> if you want to know how to carve a prop call my brother at 518 5875873
his name is paul
> he has don a few at about 40.00 a pop it is really simple and the the
jig to make them can
> be made from parts you can buy at most hardeware stores
This seems like a subject of general interest, even if it
is not specific to Piets. Any chance of having it written
up for the list? Please?
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: can I please pick the brains of all prop |
carvers?
There is a book available through EAA titled "Prop Making for the Amatuer" by Eric
Clutton.
Lots of good info on woods, carving, shapes, etc...
Greg Cardinal
>>> "walter evans" 04/25 5:31 PM >>>
I'm just now at a point where I'm ready to cover, and I think that I've got
a lead on a certified prop for the A65 Cont. going on an AirCamper.
But from the day I recieved the plans , I've dreamed of having my hand
carved prop on the front. Seems when anyone walks down the flightline at a
fly-in, the first thing they see is the front of the plane and the prop!
Some of these props are so beautiful, they bring tears to your eyes. And I
want to have the knowledge to make one.
Here's where the questions start.....
Many laminations look good, but they say that three laminations hold up just
as well.?
Carving one seems to be settled in my head, with all the techniques that
I've seen, but the choosing of wood ,,and the grain thing,,,and laying the
grain together,,,and what wood to use, and not to use ,,that's what
confusing.
Think I fell in love with the prop look when I saw Jim Malley's Piet and
prop in Kitplanes,long time ago.(still have the issue)
I had disected a busted Sensinich prop from an old Piper J2, and it seems
the laminations are about 1/4 to 3/8" thick, with the grain with circular
"smiles" that are back to back through the whole prop.
What's the poop on props?
Can everyone tell me what they know??
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
| Subject: | Re: can I please pick the brains of all prop carvers? |
04/26/2001 12:54:14 PM
Well,
As I was sitting here reading about the hoped-for joys of prop
carving, an F-18 went roaring past my office window at about 300'.
Talk about feeling like being in a time warp!
Having been out of town for most of the past 2 weeks, I forgot that it's
the weekend for the monster spring air show at the Naval Air Station. So
the Blue Angels are here & it looks like they are taking advantage of a
beautiful spring day to practice.
Happy Flyin' Everyone!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: can I please pick the brains of all prop carvers? |
In a message dated 4/25/01 4:33:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
> Carving one seems to be settled in my head, with all the techniques that
> I've seen, but the choosing of wood ,,and the grain thing,,,and laying the
> grain together,,,and what wood to use, and not to use ,,that's what
> confusing.
> Think I fell in love with the prop look when I saw Jim Malley's Piet and
> prop in Kitplanes,long time ago.(still have the issue)
> I had disected a busted Sensinich prop from an old Piper J2, and it seems
> the laminations are about 1/4 to 3/8" thick, with the grain with circular
> "smiles" that are back to back through the whole prop.
> What's the poop on props?
> Can everyone tell me what they know??
> walt
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Walter,
I followed the general technique in the back section of the 1933 F&GM reprint
from the EAA and the prop plan from Orrin Hoopman. I have about 100 hours on
that piet now and still like the prop. I covered the entire outboard half of
the blade with fiberglass per instructions from (Gus Weibe) our local wood
airplane guru. The fiber glass is much easier than brass tipping and can
become invisible under high gloss Alkyd spar varnish from ACE. Doug
Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
Hello,
Says guys, I know this subject has been brought up before
but I was wondering if there was any new thought or ideas
on wing gap seals.
I have a Grega and understand the gap between the ailerons
and the wing's trailing edge is wider than on a plans built Piet.
I have a friend who is a member of a soaring club and says
they use various types of tape and mylar for the gliders.
Usually it is used on the day they fly. When finished, it is
taken off and discarded until. They next time they fly
they use fresh tape to cover the slight gaps.
I called Knauff & Grove Soaring Supplies and talked to man
there. He says he gets these kinds of calls all the time. He said
he would not use tape as it might come loose and create a spoiler
and/or jam into the gaps. He said they tape may not stick well to
the paint of the fabric for a long period of time and when it comes
loose, it would take paint off the aircraft.
He recommended getting strong parachute material and gluing it
on.
So I don't know which way to go. I would like to get better
aileron roll response and feel covering the gaps would enhance
better performance.
Any suggestions, drawings and ideas are welcome.
Thanks again guys.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas, Texas
214 905-9299
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | can I please pick the brains of all prop carvers? |
Walt, I've been using Eric Clutton's book and so far so good. Even if you
wasn't going to carve a prop, it is still a really good one to add to the
library. He gives formulas and graph charts to figure out your pitch and
size for your HP. I'm going with a 70x48 for my corvair engine. Hoping I'll
get a good climb and decent cruise.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of walter evans
Subject: Pietenpol-List: can I please pick the brains of all prop carvers?
I'm just now at a point where I'm ready to cover, and I think that I've got
a lead on a certified prop for the A65 Cont. going on an AirCamper.
But from the day I recieved the plans , I've dreamed of having my hand
carved prop on the front. Seems when anyone walks down the flightline at a
fly-in, the first thing they see is the front of the plane and the prop!
Some of these props are so beautiful, they bring tears to your eyes. And I
want to have the knowledge to make one.
Here's where the questions start.....
Many laminations look good, but they say that three laminations hold up just
as well.?
Carving one seems to be settled in my head, with all the techniques that
I've seen, but the choosing of wood ,,and the grain thing,,,and laying the
grain together,,,and what wood to use, and not to use ,,that's what
confusing.
Think I fell in love with the prop look when I saw Jim Malley's Piet and
prop in Kitplanes,long time ago.(still have the issue)
I had disected a busted Sensinich prop from an old Piper J2, and it seems
the laminations are about 1/4 to 3/8" thick, with the grain with circular
"smiles" that are back to back through the whole prop.
What's the poop on props?
Can everyone tell me what they know??
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Sippola" <sippola(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: can I please pick the brains of all prop carvers? |
Carl,
Though I have yet to start carving a prop for my corvair engine I believe
a more normal prop for it in a piet is around 66 x 33. Need to get the
revs up in the 2800-3000 rpm range. A friend of mine building a piet took
some photos of a corvair piet at Oshkosh a year or two ago and that is what
the builder recommended. The guys at the corvaircraft list may have some
better info.
Wayne Sippola
----------
> From: Carl Loar <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: can I please pick the brains of all prop
carvers?
> Date: Thursday, April 26, 2001 4:03 PM
>
>
> Walt, I've been using Eric Clutton's book and so far so good. Even if
you
> wasn't going to carve a prop, it is still a really good one to add to the
> library. He gives formulas and graph charts to figure out your pitch and
> size for your HP. I'm going with a 70x48 for my corvair engine. Hoping
I'll
> get a good climb and decent cruise.
> Carl
>
> Please visit my website at
> www.megsinet.net/skycarl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of walter
evans
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 7:31 PM
> To: Fishnet; piet discussion
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: can I please pick the brains of all prop
carvers?
>
>
>
> I'm just now at a point where I'm ready to cover, and I think that I've
got
> a lead on a certified prop for the A65 Cont. going on an AirCamper.
> But from the day I recieved the plans , I've dreamed of having my hand
> carved prop on the front. Seems when anyone walks down the flightline
at a
> fly-in, the first thing they see is the front of the plane and the prop!
> Some of these props are so beautiful, they bring tears to your eyes. And
I
> want to have the knowledge to make one.
> Here's where the questions start.....
> Many laminations look good, but they say that three laminations hold up
just
> as well.?
> Carving one seems to be settled in my head, with all the techniques that
> I've seen, but the choosing of wood ,,and the grain thing,,,and laying
the
> grain together,,,and what wood to use, and not to use ,,that's what
> confusing.
> Think I fell in love with the prop look when I saw Jim Malley's Piet and
> prop in Kitplanes,long time ago.(still have the issue)
> I had disected a busted Sensinich prop from an old Piper J2, and it seems
> the laminations are about 1/4 to 3/8" thick, with the grain with circular
> "smiles" that are back to back through the whole prop.
> What's the poop on props?
> Can everyone tell me what they know??
> walt
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: can I please pick the brains of all prop carvers? |
In a message dated 4/26/01 12:55:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kgardner(at)odu.edu writes:
<< Talk about feeling like being in a time warp!
Having been out of town for most of the past 2 weeks, I forgot that it's
the weekend for the monster spring air show at the Naval Air Station. So
the Blue Angels are here & it looks like they are taking advantage of a
beautiful spring day to practice >>
Wonder how a Pietenpol would handle in all that jet wash ??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mckellars" <mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | Pete-n- pole or Pete-n- paul |
O. K. Gents, Is the name Pete-n-pole or Pete-n-paul. I've always thought
it was Pete-n-paul (I could be wrong). Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pete-n- pole or Pete-n- paul |
In a message dated 4/26/01 7:43:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net writes:
<< O. K. Gents, Is the name Pete-n-pole or Pete-n-paul. I've always thought
it was Pete-n-paul (I could be wrong). Mark
>>
Pete-n-Paul is my vote:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pete-n- pole or Pete-n- paul |
I kind of think its pete-n-re-pete or pete-n-john.:)
--- Mckellars wrote:
>
>
> O. K. Gents, Is the name Pete-n-pole or Pete-n-paul.
> I've always thought
> it was Pete-n-paul (I could be wrong). Mark
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Malley <jgmalley(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: can I please pick the brains of all prop carvers? |
Multiple laminations of 3/16" or 1/4" look great but can be quite
expensive and require a lot of gluing. Multiple laminations are probably
stronger and should be considered for high rpms; but I've seen a
Volksplane with 2 laminations. I used seven laminations of 1/2" each.
Alternating light birch with dark mahoghany gives the visual impression
that there are more laminations than there really are. I would suggest
that the wood be of the same high quality as you put into the rest of
the plane - straight grain, little slope. If you are using very thin
laminations you might want to alternate the grain sloping direction from
one lamination to the next.
My first prop took nearly 3 months from design to tightening the prop
bolts, the next one was about 3 weeks. My reduction gear allows me 2000
at full power and 1600 at cruise. My latest is an 80x52 monster, but I
haven't tried it yet.
Eric Clutton's book is an easy read and extremely helpful.
You built the rest of the plane, this is just a few more hours of
pleasant woodwork.
Jim Malley
walter evans wrote:
>
>
> I'm just now at a point where I'm ready to cover, and I think that I've got
> a lead on a certified prop for the A65 Cont. going on an AirCamper.
> But from the day I recieved the plans , I've dreamed of having my hand
> carved prop on the front. Seems when anyone walks down the flightline at a
> fly-in, the first thing they see is the front of the plane and the prop!
> Some of these props are so beautiful, they bring tears to your eyes. And I
> want to have the knowledge to make one.
> Here's where the questions start.....
> Many laminations look good, but they say that three laminations hold up just
> as well.?
> Carving one seems to be settled in my head, with all the techniques that
> I've seen, but the choosing of wood ,,and the grain thing,,,and laying the
> grain together,,,and what wood to use, and not to use ,,that's what
> confusing.
> Think I fell in love with the prop look when I saw Jim Malley's Piet and
> prop in Kitplanes,long time ago.(still have the issue)
> I had disected a busted Sensinich prop from an old Piper J2, and it seems
> the laminations are about 1/4 to 3/8" thick, with the grain with circular
> "smiles" that are back to back through the whole prop.
> What's the poop on props?
> Can everyone tell me what they know??
> walt
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: can I please pick the brains of all prop carvers? |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Malley" <jgmalley(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: can I please pick the brains of all prop
carvers?
>
> Multiple laminations of 3/16" or 1/4" look great but can be quite
> expensive and require a lot of gluing. Multiple laminations are probably
> stronger and should be considered for high rpms; but I've seen a
> Volksplane with 2 laminations. I used seven laminations of 1/2" each.
> Alternating light birch with dark mahoghany gives the visual impression
> that there are more laminations than there really are. I would suggest
> that the wood be of the same high quality as you put into the rest of
> the plane - straight grain, little slope. If you are using very thin
> laminations you might want to alternate the grain sloping direction from
> one lamination to the next.
>
> My first prop took nearly 3 months from design to tightening the prop
> bolts, the next one was about 3 weeks. My reduction gear allows me 2000
> at full power and 1600 at cruise. My latest is an 80x52 monster, but I
> haven't tried it yet.
>
> Eric Clutton's book is an easy read and extremely helpful.
>
> You built the rest of the plane, this is just a few more hours of
> pleasant woodwork.
>
> Jim Malley
>
> walter evans wrote:
> >
> >
> > I'm just now at a point where I'm ready to cover, and I think that I've
got
> > a lead on a certified prop for the A65 Cont. going on an AirCamper.
> > But from the day I recieved the plans , I've dreamed of having my hand
> > carved prop on the front. Seems when anyone walks down the flightline
at a
> > fly-in, the first thing they see is the front of the plane and the prop!
> > Some of these props are so beautiful, they bring tears to your eyes.
And I
> > want to have the knowledge to make one.
> > Here's where the questions start.....
> > Many laminations look good, but they say that three laminations hold up
just
> > as well.?
> > Carving one seems to be settled in my head, with all the techniques that
> > I've seen, but the choosing of wood ,,and the grain thing,,,and laying
the
> > grain together,,,and what wood to use, and not to use ,,that's what
> > confusing.
> > Think I fell in love with the prop look when I saw Jim Malley's Piet and
> > prop in Kitplanes,long time ago.(still have the issue)
> > I had disected a busted Sensinich prop from an old Piper J2, and it
seems
> > the laminations are about 1/4 to 3/8" thick, with the grain with
circular
> > "smiles" that are back to back through the whole prop.
> > What's the poop on props?
> > Can everyone tell me what they know??
> > walt
> > -----------------------------------------------------
> > Jim,
I have to confess that your plane on the cover of Kitplanes a few years ago
was what convinced me that I wanted to build a Pietenpol - It's beautiful!
Are you still using the 92ci Ford? I elected to use a Subaru EA82
turbocharged and fuel injected engine in mine because of my field elevation
here in Salida CO (7100 ft).
As a result, I think that I will be developing sea level horsepower up here
because I am using a manual waste gate and should be able to pull 45" map.
According to the book, I will have 111 hp at only 4800 rpm. Since I am
using a 2.35 to 1.00 reduction, this will give a prop RPM of 2042 at WOT. I
expect to cruise the engine at 3600 RPM which will make the prop RPM 1532,
which is about the same as a model A engine. My question to you is with a
wide blade prop to absorb the horsepower, what is your recomendation for
diameter and pitch. I figured from Cluttons' book that with slippage I
should have about a 78x50 prop. yet I notice that you are making a 80x52
"Monster" for less horsepower??
Cheers, John Dilatush,
Salida CO Just finishing up.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pete-n- pole or Pete-n- paul |
1. Emphasis on "Pete".
2. Go light on the "N" sound.
3. A flat "Paul" sound, more like a "Paal". Draw the vowel out a
little bit.
There, now you're all speaking "Minnesotan". Yah sure, you betcha!!!
Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis.
>>> "Mckellars" 04/26 5:44 PM >>>
O. K. Gents, Is the name Pete-n-pole or Pete-n-paul. I've always thought
it was Pete-n-paul (I could be wrong). Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pete-n- pole or Pete-n- paul |
Except, here in Texas, you can expect to hear "Pete-m-Paawwwwwl"
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
| Subject: | Re: Pete-n- pole or Pete-n- paul |
04/27/2001 10:25:50 AM
Jeez,
Makes me homesick, don'cha know!
Cheers! (from a former Mpls. boy)
Kip Gardner
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences
Old Dominion University
Norfolk, VA 23529
Ph: 757-683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Illiterate? Write for Free Help Now!"
(An 'oldie' from the 60's sent by a friend)
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
cc:
bcc:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pete-n- pole or Pete-n- paul
gcardinal(at)startribune.com
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Please respond to pietenpol-list
1. Emphasis on "Pete".
2. Go light on the "N" sound.
3. A flat "Paul" sound, more like a "Paal". Draw the vowel out a
little bit.
There, now you're all speaking "Minnesotan". Yah sure, you betcha!!!
Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Pete-n- pole or Pete-n- paul |
You know guys........I take the easy way out and just tell
people "It's an Air Camper."
!!!!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pete-n- pole or Pete-n- paul |
Mike,
How should an ole confederate veteran try to pronounce it. When I tell my
friends I'm spending a lot of time with my Pietenpol they want to know if it
grows or what,sooo, I'd just as well keep my big suthin mouth shut.
Corky in beautiful, breezy Louisiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pete-n- pole or Pete-n- paul |
Now Mike, is that Aircamper or Air Camper?
>From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
>
>You know guys........I take the easy way out and just tell
>people "It's an Air Camper."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Glad you asked, Joe...... |
>
>Now Mike, is that Aircamper or Air Camper?\
>Those with not much to do will notice that GN-1's are Aircampers
and Pietenpols are Air Campers.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
| Subject: | Re: Glad you asked, Joe...... |
04/27/2001 03:42:32 PM
So, As I sit here watching the blue Angels blow by my office for another
day of practice, I can't help but wonder:
is it Hor-net or Horn-et?
Cheers!
Kip Gardner (with not too much to do in VA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Dear Piets, Pols, Pauls, Paaawls or whatever I'm allowed,
Have been under the weather the last week or so and want to get started doing
something (unstrenuos) so have decided to start covering my tail feathers
tomorrow. I bought the practice kit from Spruce and hope I have enough dacron
for the vert stab.
Questions:
Do you apply the tac to the tail ribs as well as the frames?
How much overlap?
Application times, tac, fabric, tapes etc?
Don't know enough about it to ask anymore questions;
Corky starting to get in a mess in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Corky,
There's a book ( I think AC Spruce carries it) from Poly Stits that is
really good. Shows you how to prep, overlap and tack, shows how to shrink
and calibrate your iron. Also shows how to rib stitch which you will be
doing a lot of in the near future. I think they get 10 bucks for it but it
is really worth it. I used the heck out of it when I did my first plane, and
it had aluminum wings so I didn't have to stitch but now I'm glad I held on
to it cause it shows the knots and how to use the needles and which ones to
use.
Also, those small little irons ( you may find one a little cheaper at a
model hobby store ) really come in handy, especially on the corners.
Have fun,
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering
Dear Piets, Pols, Pauls, Paaawls or whatever I'm allowed,
Have been under the weather the last week or so and want to get started
doing
something (unstrenuos) so have decided to start covering my tail feathers
tomorrow. I bought the practice kit from Spruce and hope I have enough
dacron
for the vert stab.
Questions:
Do you apply the tac to the tail ribs as well as the frames?
How much overlap?
Application times, tac, fabric, tapes etc?
Don't know enough about it to ask anymore questions;
Corky starting to get in a mess in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Ed G.) |
| Subject: | Corvair / short fuse C.G. |
Alright, since you guys are really bored I.ve got some questions. I'm
about to start on a corvair engine mount for my Franklin 80 hp engine
on my short fuselage
( 1933 version ) Piet . My Franklin is supposed to weigh about 185 lbs
without a starter or generator. The corvair mount was designed for the
long fuselage SO;
!. How much does a Corvair eng. weigh?
2. When using a Corvair eng. on a short fuse is the mount kept at
stock length or is it extended slightly for C.G. purposes?
3. Should I extend the mount length slightly with my Franklin or keep
it stock length?
The Corvair mount is supposed to work with the Franklin with only a few
minor mods, hopefully some of you Corvair guys out there can help me
with the weight and balance before I start cutting tubing.
Thanks in advance.
Ed G.
Palm Harbor Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
Hey Corky, Ijust finished recovering my Ercoupe wings. I've got a copy of the
EAA video on fabric covering that was a big help to me. Say the work and I'll box
it up and shoot it out to you.
This afternoon up at 49C, John Gillespie, who completed his Piet in 91, flew in
for a cup of coffee. What a plane that Piet is, in the pattern it just didn't
want to come down. When John left, his A65 powered Piet rolled only around 200
ft and shoot up like a home sick angel.
Back in the early 90s, John had a Model B Ford engine in it but after far too
many glider flights, he wisely put in the A65. What a great flyer it is!!!
JoeC N99621
Zion, IL
Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Dear Piets, Pols, Pauls, Paaawls or whatever I'm allowed,
>
> Have been under the weather the last week or so and want to get started doing
> something (unstrenuos) so have decided to start covering my tail feathers
> tomorrow. I bought the practice kit from Spruce and hope I have enough dacron
> for the vert stab.
> Questions:
> Do you apply the tac to the tail ribs as well as the frames?
> How much overlap?
> Application times, tac, fabric, tapes etc?
> Don't know enough about it to ask anymore questions;
> Corky starting to get in a mess in La
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
corky, if you're interested, I have a EAA video on fabric covering. It was a big
help to me while I recovered my Ercoupe wings. Say the word and I'll box it up
and shoot it out to you.
this afternoon over at 49C, a friend of mine, John Gillespie, flew in with his
A65 powered Piet. What i sweet flyer it is. In the pattern it just doesn't want
to come down and when he took off he only rolled about 200 ft and it shot up like
a home sick angel. great sight.
JoeC N99621
Zion, IL
Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Dear Piets, Pols, Pauls, Paaawls or whatever I'm allowed,
>
> Have been under the weather the last week or so and want to get started doing
> something (unstrenuos) so have decided to start covering my tail feathers
> tomorrow. I bought the practice kit from Spruce and hope I have enough dacron
> for the vert stab.
> Questions:
> Do you apply the tac to the tail ribs as well as the frames?
> How much overlap?
> Application times, tac, fabric, tapes etc?
> Don't know enough about it to ask anymore questions;
> Corky starting to get in a mess in La
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Joe,
Sounds like you are more than ready to fly our Piet. If no troubleshoot me
the video as I have lots of time to watch it. Had to go back under the
surgeon's knife for the clean out of the left caroded artery. I think he just
wanted to create a visual balance. I look like I was hit by a d-8 dozer.
Still real weak but the Piet names keep me humored and going.
Corky in sick bay in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Corvair / short fuse C.G. |
-In response to how much do Corvairs weigh, that depends on who's conversion
your talking about. If we are talking a William Waynn conversion woth out
electric starter or alternator about 205 pounds. A BHP conversion with the
stock blower and shet metak will weigh more as will a conversion with an
electric system starter alternator etc. Some say as much as 25 pounds just
for the blower and shroud. So Your coing to have to shorten the mount but
how much I don't know . it was designed for the long fuselage in the first
place with a heavy, ie. BHP conversion.Your goping to have to run the weight
and ballance numbers based on your componentsand airframe.
Gene
In St.Louis
Introducing iWon Cash Points...now everyone's a winner on iWon.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Corvair / short fuse C.G. |
Ed, If you were to extend your motor mount maybe 4 inches and then adjust
your cg by moving the wing back, you should be ok.
Seems that is what the guys with the small continentals do. Hopefully, some
one out there is flying a franklin 80 and can dial you in more precise.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ed G.
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair / short fuse C.G.
Alright, since you guys are really bored I.ve got some questions. I'm
about to start on a corvair engine mount for my Franklin 80 hp engine
on my short fuselage
( 1933 version ) Piet . My Franklin is supposed to weigh about 185 lbs
without a starter or generator. The corvair mount was designed for the
long fuselage SO;
!. How much does a Corvair eng. weigh?
2. When using a Corvair eng. on a short fuse is the mount kept at
stock length or is it extended slightly for C.G. purposes?
3. Should I extend the mount length slightly with my Franklin or keep
it stock length?
The Corvair mount is supposed to work with the Franklin with only a few
minor mods, hopefully some of you Corvair guys out there can help me
with the weight and balance before I start cutting tubing.
Thanks in advance.
Ed G.
Palm Harbor Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol linguistics |
In the last year or so, I have heard of two University of Wisconsin
students here in Oshkosh with the last name of Pietenpol. Neither of them
had any idea of Bernard H. Pietenpol. of course, they do now, since Jeremy
Monnett enlightened one person and my wife Dee revealed the Holy Truth to
the other one. They both pronounce their names Peet'n'pole, and seem quite
satisfied with it.
There is an article in on of the early Pavliga-edited BPA newsletters
(can't find the article when I need it, so I can't give you his name) by a
gentleman up in the Cherry Grove area who tells that when he was a kid, he
was always fascinated to accompany his dad to BHP's shop, because to a kid,
there were always interesting things there - first and foremost, of course,
there were airplanes there. He tells that for quite a period of time when
he was a kid, he never met the other guy who ran the shop. His dad always
just said that they were going to go to Pete 'n' Paul's shop. So the kid
met Pete, but never did meet Paul!
Maybe this will clear up (or confuse) the proper pronunciation in Cherry
Grove in those days. Today, don Pietenpol seems happy with Peet'n'pole, as
are the students here in Oshkosh.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lou Larsen" <pietlars(at)gate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Props for Model A Piet |
Doug:
Thanks for your prop information, its always nice to get information from
folks who have been there and done that before. Also have enjoyed your
previous contributions to the site on various subjects. Thanks again.
Yesterday was anothe milestone day; I took the Piet outside and hung both
wings for the first time; had each on separately (3 piece wing) but needed
to double check the strut length and fit the lift strut cables. Now to
install the aileron cables.
Regards:
Lou
----- Original Message -----
From: <Doug413(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Props for Model A Piet
>
> In a message dated 4/24/01 6:05:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> pietlars(at)gate.net writes:
>
>
> > I am ready to acquire a prop for my A powered Piet; need some input from
> > folks who gone down this road before.
> >
> > Plant to purchase a prop and am currently considering a 76 x 42 prop as
> > Howard Henderson used on his bird after making 3 different props . (per
> > info in one of the old BPA newsletters)
> >
> > That seems to be a good choice ; of course I have no experience to judge
> > by except that Howard seemed to be a very savvy guy and he produced an
> > excellent piet.
> >
> >
>
> Lou,
>
> When I read the Piet manual from Don pietenpol, It stated to to use a 48'
> pitch and the plans call for a 76' dia prop. So, I bought the prop plan
from
> Orin Hoopman and built it. It is as close to 48' as I can measure. It
gives
> very nice cruise perofmance ( a full 70 MPH @ about 1650 RPM), but is weak
on
> climb with two people, fine with one. Because of that I don't carry a
> passenger, but like the cruise performance. I have a nice article on
Howards
> piet in Feb 1989 Sport aviation and have spent a good deal of time
chatting
> with him on the Ham radio net some time ago. He mentioned that his prop
was
> a 72/42 and his plane cruised 60ish @ 1750 RPM. I made a note of it in
my
> magizine at that time so I wouldn't forget. His plane would carry two
with
> this prop and he gave lots of rides a Broadhead I am told. Sounds like
your
> choice of 76/42 might be a great compromise for good climb with two and
good
> cruise also. I know that cruise is not all that important in a piet, but
I
> like the way it planes at 70, so for now am happy with my 76/48 . Press
on.
> Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | building the fuselage |
Hey guys,
What is the most common way of building the fuselage considering that
the gussets are one the inside? Do you build the right side first with the
gussets glued on top of the joints, then for the left side just make butt
joints and add the gussets to the inside after the left side frame has been
lifted off the building table? I know I could glue the plywood side to the
outside of the left frame while it is in the jig but I would rather do that
after the fuselage is together and attached at the tail post (because part
of the plywood extends aft enough to where the fuselage starts to come
together).
Corky, hope you get back to speed soon. Is there any association
between the need for your heart surgery and the special ingredient you add
to your shrimp dish?
Jeff in Texas cheering for the Toronto Maple Leafs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: building the fuselage |
Jeff,
Guess I should have been eating like a yankee instead of like a king in La.
Isabelle, my bride, from Mattoon, Ill has taken over the family food
planning. No more homemade bread, butter, bacon, pork sausage, eggs, homo
milk, bisquits w/ real butter, syrup, waffles, hot cakes. Tonight we did have
a southern delight, black eyed peas. Tomorrow I'll try to get her to buy me
some turnip and mustard greens but no sow-belly for seasoning. Fraid it's
going to be slim pickins down south. Probably try to feed me those yankee
delights such as bread and rice puddings, rubbards or whatever those people
eat. Can you imagine I'll have no more rice and gravy, shrimp creole,
crawfish bisque. HORROWS
Corky in pure food La
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: building the fuselage |
In a message dated 4/28/01 5:47:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com writes:
> What is the most common way of building the fuselage considering that
> the gussets are one the inside? Do you build the right side first with the
> gussets glued on top of the joints, then for the left side just make butt
> joints and add the gussets to the inside after the left side frame has been
> lifted off the building table? I know I could glue the plywood side to the
> outside of the left frame while it is in the jig but I would rather do that
> after the fuselage is together and attached at the tail post (because part
> of the plywood extends aft enough to where the fuselage starts to come
>
Jeff,
I build the right side first with the small gussets then remove it from the
ji and put the small gussets on the other side. Next, mark the strut
locations onto both side sheets, then glue the side sheet on the right side
out of the jig. Then build the left side putting the side sheet on in the
jig and the small gussets every where else, remove from the jig and put the
rest of the small gussets out side of the jig. There is a good explanation
of this process in the 1933 F&GM sky scout plans. Doug Bryant
Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mckellars" <mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net> |
When BHP went to the Cub style gear, Did he keep the attach fittings
centered at 27.5 " or move them closer? Does anyone know? Mark McKellar
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
In a message dated 4/28/01 7:04:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net writes:
> When BHP went to the Cub style gear, Did he keep the attach fittings
> centered at 27.5 " or move them closer? Does anyone know? Mark McKellar
>
>
>
Mark,
The spacing of the lugs and all stayed the same as shown on the gear page of
the plans. The Grega version used an actual Cub gear or home made copy
thereof. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda + Skip Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Landing Gear |
Mark,
I believe the important thing about the L/G attach fittings is that they
end up mounted on the lower longeron centered at the same location as a vertical
or diagonal upright, this is also important for the lift strut attach points.
This is why J Grega had to put an extra bay in his fuselage sides when he wanted
to use an actual Cub L/G that had a different center to center distance than a
Piet L/G. You can always tell a GN1, or anybody who used a Cub L/G because the
rear lift strut and rear L/G do not hit the lower longeron at the same location.
So assuming your fuselage sides are already built, the distance between the L/G
fittings is set.
Hope this helps.
Skip, still working on my shop so I can continue work on my L/G in
Atlanta
-----
--- Cinda + Skip Gadd
--- csfog(at)earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sct.com> |
04/30/2001 08:52:51 AM
Go to the WEB site below for an old NACA report on propeller design
for small aircraft.
Mike
http://wais-gw.larc.nasa.gov:81/naca.larc.nasa.gov:210/naca/HTML/659/1=techreports.larc.nasa.gov%3A210;2=/usr/local/web/waissrc/naca;3=0%20659%20/usr/local/web/htdocs/naca/reports/1925/naca-tn-212/naca-tn-212.refer.html;4=techreports.larc.nasa.gov%3A210;5=/usr/local/web/waissrc/naca;6=0%20659%20/usr/local/web/htdocs/naca/reports/1925/naca-tn-212/naca-tn-212.refer.html;7
%00;
YES, the whole thing is the WEB address
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sides & Gussets |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sct.com> |
04/30/2001 09:59:04 AM
One of the notes that I've seen repeated on this list is that leaving
the side sheets off of the fuse until you're done with most of the
innards makes it a lot easier to install the innards. I'm at the
stage where I have the sides together on my work table. With the
inner gussets installed, the rigidity is quite sufficient and it takes
handling and bending the tail together just fine. I did one side
first with the gussets and then the second without. I think that I
had to redo one of the butt joints
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | 2001 Pietenpol Hats... |
I am wondering if anyone out there is interested in Pietenpol hats this
year.
I will not be at Brodhead this year selling them.
If you are interested drop me an email, and I'll have some more made.
I have to do them in batches of at least a dozen.
I am doing a Wittman Tailwind hat this year as well, so if you
want either let me know. The artwork isn't quite done on the TW
hat yet but will be soon.
$20 each plus $3 shipping
"LOW AND SLOW FOR 70 YEARS" across the back
buy two for $40 and shipping is free.
specify color. Blue or Green (I may do red or black if I have enough
requests... ie 6 or so)
Image at:
http://aircamper.byu.edu
or on the front page of the latest BPA newsletter!
Steve E (Eldrdge)
1005 E. 620 N.
Provo UT 84606
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair / short fuse C.G. |
04/30/2001 10:38:41 AM
Ed,
As previously stated, Wm. Wynn's corvair weighs about 205lbs. without the
electric starter.
He has it on a 1933, short-fuse plane & extended his motor mount 6" to get
the right w&b.
With the lighter Franklin, I suspect you would need to go a little longer
&/or move the wing back.
Andrew Pietenpol is putting a Franklin 80 in the new Piet he is building,
but I don't recall
which fuse he is doing, I think it is the longer, corvair-mount version.
Hope this helps.
Cheers!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <J-M-Duprey(at)erols.com> |
Hi Carl: Did you ever get more info from your friend on the wooden struts?
John Duprey
Carl Loar wrote:
>
> A friend of mine in Ottawa Co. OH. Bill Poiry, has a real nice piet he built
> and he made the wood struts with the reinforce steel.
> I'm not sure how he did it but I plan to visit him this weekend and I'll ask
> him. They look great. I'll try to get a few pics of them and his plane and
> I'll post them on my website at the "more piets and planes" area.
> Carl
>
> Please visit my website at
> www.megsinet.net/skycarl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Warren D.
> Shoun
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 5:26 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood struts
>
>
> As I recall it is a piece of 3/4" square tubing.
> Warren
>
> TomTravis(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > What dimensions are used for the steel inside the struts? Is it a flat
> piece
> > of 4130?
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Chambers" <kchambers(at)m2k.com> |
| Subject: | Sport Pilot Changes |
Gary and Pietsters
Sorry for the late, off-topic post. I'm running into this wonderfully
successful oil industry propaganda job on Prudhoe Bay all the time and I
just can't hold my tongue. They've spent millions painting a pretty picture
of their operations in the Arctic, flying journalists up there and such, but
the whole thing collapses when you look at a few facts.
* The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) reported in 1992 that nearly 40
percent of reserve pits associated with drilling pads studied were
classified as toxic.
* The Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) reports that
100,098 gallons of petroleum products were spilled in the oil fields in 1993
and 24,968 gallons in 1994.
* FWS studies report that snow in the Prudhoe Bay fields has high
concentrations of heavy metals such as zinc, lead, copper and barium.
* DEC reports that the nitrogen oxide emissions from Prudhoe Bay are
comparable to Washington, D.C.
* The 1995 Journal of Atmospheric Chemistry reports that approximately
24,000 tons of methane gas are leaked into the atmosphere from the Prudhoe
Bay oil fields each year. Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas and a major
polluter.
* Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) studies indicate that female
caribou in contact with North Slope oil activities are less productive than
those in undisturbed areas. The Central Arctic Caribou Herd is currently
suffering a decline in its rate of growth.
* ADF&G North Slope bear studies reveal that about a dozen once wild
grizzlies have turned into garbage bears in the oil fields.
This is not a paradise for wildlife. It's an oil field.
Ken, just finishing the fuselage jig in Austin, Texas.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
Meadows
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Changes
Kip & all Pietsters!
Don't worry, There's plenty of oil, reports to the contrary are greatly
exaggerated! Extraction is not the problem, unless you factor in
environmental regulations which could drive prices way up. I'm constantly
amazed at the strides being made in drilling and extraction, and besides,
I've been hearing the "Chicken Little" 10-20 year oil thing for the last
20-30 years. Another point: If you don't believe unbridled environmentalism
causes massive price hikes and shortages, then just look at California's
energy mess! We'll all end up paying for that!
SUV's and supply and demand are not the cause of the gasoline price hikes.
It's OPEC. If we all parked our cars tomorrow, gas would cost the same -
maybe more! OPEC limits its oil output and therby sets the crude prices that
directly affects gasoline prices. Supply & demand may cause some minor
fluctuations, but are not the cause of overall higher prices.
We should also drill ANWR, and any other place that looks good for
production. Honestly, Prudhoe is a better place for animals thanks to the
oil industry.
Finally, On a pertinent note, Kudos to Mike Bell! I received my BPA
reprints today! What a goldmine!! Thanks Mike!
Corky - Hang in there buddy and keep building, you're gonna fly that Piet
yet! I think the new certificate class is something the FAA may do right,
and will provide another shot-in-the-arm for aviation!
Gary Meadows
Working on landing gear in Texas!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
Meadows
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Changes
Kip & all Pietsters!
Don't worry, There's plenty of oil, reports to the contrary are greatly
exaggerated! Extraction is not the problem, unless you factor in
environmental regulations which could drive prices way up. I'm constantly
amazed at the strides being made in drilling and extraction, and besides,
I've been hearing the "Chicken Little" 10-20 year oil thing for the last
20-30 years. Another point: If you don't believe unbridled environmentalism
causes massive price hikes and shortages, then just look at California's
energy mess! We'll all end up paying for that!
SUV's and supply and demand are not the cause of the gasoline price hikes.
It's OPEC. If we all parked our cars tomorrow, gas would cost the same -
maybe more! OPEC limits its oil output and therby sets the crude prices that
directly affects gasoline prices. Supply & demand may cause some minor
fluctuations, but are not the cause of overall higher prices.
We should also drill ANWR, and any other place that looks good for
production. Honestly, Prudhoe is a better place for animals thanks to the
oil industry.
Finally, On a pertinent note, Kudos to Mike Bell! I received my BPA
reprints today! What a goldmine!! Thanks Mike!
Corky - Hang in there buddy and keep building, you're gonna fly that Piet
yet! I think the new certificate class is something the FAA may do right,
and will provide another shot-in-the-arm for aviation!
Gary Meadows
Working on landing gear in Texas!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Sport Pilot Changes |
* The 1995 Journal of Atmospheric Chemistry reports that approximately
24,000 tons of methane gas are leaked into the atmosphere from the Prudhoe
Bay oil fields each year. Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas and a major
polluter.
IOWA COWS do more than that. Sure it isn't from the Caribou which are
multiplying?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Chambers" <kchambers(at)m2k.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Changes
>
>
> Gary and Pietsters
>
> Sorry for the late, off-topic post. I'm running into this wonderfully
> successful oil industry propaganda job on Prudhoe Bay all the time and I
> just can't hold my tongue. They've spent millions painting a pretty
picture
> of their operations in the Arctic, flying journalists up there and such,
but
> the whole thing collapses when you look at a few facts.
>
> * The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) reported in 1992 that nearly 40
> percent of reserve pits associated with drilling pads studied were
> classified as toxic.
>
> * The Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) reports that
> 100,098 gallons of petroleum products were spilled in the oil fields in
1993
> and 24,968 gallons in 1994.
>
> * FWS studies report that snow in the Prudhoe Bay fields has high
> concentrations of heavy metals such as zinc, lead, copper and barium.
>
> * DEC reports that the nitrogen oxide emissions from Prudhoe Bay are
> comparable to Washington, D.C.
>
> * The 1995 Journal of Atmospheric Chemistry reports that approximately
> 24,000 tons of methane gas are leaked into the atmosphere from the Prudhoe
> Bay oil fields each year. Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas and a major
> polluter.
>
> * Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) studies indicate that female
> caribou in contact with North Slope oil activities are less productive
than
> those in undisturbed areas. The Central Arctic Caribou Herd is currently
> suffering a decline in its rate of growth.
>
> * ADF&G North Slope bear studies reveal that about a dozen once wild
> grizzlies have turned into garbage bears in the oil fields.
>
> This is not a paradise for wildlife. It's an oil field.
>
> Ken, just finishing the fuselage jig in Austin, Texas.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
> Meadows
> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 1:52 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Changes
>
>
>
> Kip & all Pietsters!
>
> Don't worry, There's plenty of oil, reports to the contrary are greatly
> exaggerated! Extraction is not the problem, unless you factor in
> environmental regulations which could drive prices way up. I'm constantly
> amazed at the strides being made in drilling and extraction, and besides,
> I've been hearing the "Chicken Little" 10-20 year oil thing for the last
> 20-30 years. Another point: If you don't believe unbridled
environmentalism
> causes massive price hikes and shortages, then just look at California's
> energy mess! We'll all end up paying for that!
>
> SUV's and supply and demand are not the cause of the gasoline price
hikes.
> It's OPEC. If we all parked our cars tomorrow, gas would cost the same -
> maybe more! OPEC limits its oil output and therby sets the crude prices
that
> directly affects gasoline prices. Supply & demand may cause some minor
> fluctuations, but are not the cause of overall higher prices.
>
> We should also drill ANWR, and any other place that looks good for
> production. Honestly, Prudhoe is a better place for animals thanks to the
> oil industry.
>
> Finally, On a pertinent note, Kudos to Mike Bell! I received my BPA
> reprints today! What a goldmine!! Thanks Mike!
>
> Corky - Hang in there buddy and keep building, you're gonna fly that
Piet
> yet! I think the new certificate class is something the FAA may do right,
> and will provide another shot-in-the-arm for aviation!
>
> Gary Meadows
> Working on landing gear in Texas!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
> Meadows
> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 1:52 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Changes
>
>
>
> Kip & all Pietsters!
>
> Don't worry, There's plenty of oil, reports to the contrary are greatly
> exaggerated! Extraction is not the problem, unless you factor in
> environmental regulations which could drive prices way up. I'm constantly
> amazed at the strides being made in drilling and extraction, and besides,
> I've been hearing the "Chicken Little" 10-20 year oil thing for the last
> 20-30 years. Another point: If you don't believe unbridled
environmentalism
> causes massive price hikes and shortages, then just look at California's
> energy mess! We'll all end up paying for that!
>
> SUV's and supply and demand are not the cause of the gasoline price
hikes.
> It's OPEC. If we all parked our cars tomorrow, gas would cost the same -
> maybe more! OPEC limits its oil output and therby sets the crude prices
that
> directly affects gasoline prices. Supply & demand may cause some minor
> fluctuations, but are not the cause of overall higher prices.
>
> We should also drill ANWR, and any other place that looks good for
> production. Honestly, Prudhoe is a better place for animals thanks to the
> oil industry.
>
> Finally, On a pertinent note, Kudos to Mike Bell! I received my BPA
> reprints today! What a goldmine!! Thanks Mike!
>
> Corky - Hang in there buddy and keep building, you're gonna fly that
Piet
> yet! I think the new certificate class is something the FAA may do right,
> and will provide another shot-in-the-arm for aviation!
>
> Gary Meadows
> Working on landing gear in Texas!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Sport Pilot Changes |
Ken,
That was a really inappropriate note. This topic had died, and rightfully
so. I'll respond offlist.
Gary Meadows
Consulting Research Technologist - Texaco Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lou Larsen" <pietlars(at)gate.net> |
Larry:
I ran across an interesting article about Howard Henderson having a problem
with getting his A squared away; it was in an old issue of the BPA
Newsletter , Volume 21, (3rd Qtr, 1988).
Seems that it was seemingly running rich and sooting up the stacks from nos
1 and 4 cylinders. He was told to do a check run at night and check the
color of the exhaust flames, which he did. He got the "desired blue flame
from # 2 and #3, but slightly orange from #1 and #4. But the most
important discovery was the ignition sparks jumping from the plug wires to
ground. Bright yellow wires improved matters somewhat but yielded no great
increase in power. However , all four stacks are now a nice grey inside."
Coincidentally I'm experiencing the same black stacks on 1 and 4 and it
runs a bit rough particularly at higher RPMs. I'm going to check the carb
float level as the next step.
Hope this is of some interest to you.
Let us know about tour progress on your A.
Regards,
Lou
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Williams <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Magneto
>
>
> Ed
>
> I have checked and the plug wires are in the correct sequence. It really
> doesn't matter if the piston is on compression or exhaust as the plug fir> es
each time the piston comes to the top of it's stroke.(driven off the c> rank,
dontcha know)
>
> Anyway, life goes on. I have been told that the engine is probably firing> on
all 4 if it keeps running. Makes sense but then why do only two pipes> show
soot and the corresponding plugs have no carbon on them? Sure wish
> Mr. Pietenpol was in my garage right now.
>
> Maybe I should quit messing with the engine and get busy finishing my win> gs.
This strike won't last forever!!
>
> f"http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
Lou
Doug Bryant has been very helpful with suggestions on my rich mixture problem
with the 'A'. Don't recall if his mention of going to solid copper wire was
online or in some of our direct correspondence. He said the change made a
marked improvement on his engine. He is actually running two ( ! )
'A'-powered Piets.
I saw the article you referrred to but don't know what he means by 'yellow'
wire. Should that color have some significance? In regard to float level, I
have that information for the 'A' carb but do not know if it is the same for
the 'B' carb that I'm using, and I believe you are using. If you can find out
this info please pass it along. Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hardaway <mike(at)hardaway.com> |
this URL works better for me
http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/1925/naca-tn-212/naca-tn-212.pdf
Mike Hardaway
Mike Bell wrote:
>
> Go to the WEB site below for an old NACA report on propeller design
> for small aircraft.
>
> Mike
>
> http://wais-gw.larc.nasa.gov:81/naca.larc.nasa.gov:210/naca/HTML/659/1=techreports.larc.nasa.gov%3A210;2=/usr/local/web/waissrc/naca;3=0%20659%20/usr/local/web/htdocs/naca/reports/1925/naca-tn-212/naca-tn-212.refer.html;4=techreports.larc.nasa.gov%3A210;5=/usr/local/web/waissrc/naca;6=0%20659%20/usr/local/web/htdocs/naca/reports/1925/naca-tn-212/naca-tn-212.refer.html;7
> %00;
>
> YES, the whole thing is the WEB address
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Sport Pilot Changes |
Let's keep the politics out of here. This site is a refuge from the day to day
---.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Chambers [SMTP:kchambers(at)m2k.com]
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Changes
Gary and Pietsters
Sorry for the late, off-topic post. I'm running into this wonderfully
successful oil industry propaganda job on Prudhoe Bay all the time and I
just can't hold my tongue. They've spent millions painting a pretty picture
of their operations in the Arctic, flying journalists up there and such, but
the whole thing collapses when you look at a few facts.
* The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) reported in 1992 that nearly 40
percent of reserve pits associated with drilling pads studied were
classified as toxic.
* The Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) reports that
100,098 gallons of petroleum products were spilled in the oil fields in 1993
and 24,968 gallons in 1994.
* FWS studies report that snow in the Prudhoe Bay fields has high
concentrations of heavy metals such as zinc, lead, copper and barium.
* DEC reports that the nitrogen oxide emissions from Prudhoe Bay are
comparable to Washington, D.C.
* The 1995 Journal of Atmospheric Chemistry reports that approximately
24,000 tons of methane gas are leaked into the atmosphere from the Prudhoe
Bay oil fields each year. Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas and a major
polluter.
* Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) studies indicate that female
caribou in contact with North Slope oil activities are less productive than
those in undisturbed areas. The Central Arctic Caribou Herd is currently
suffering a decline in its rate of growth.
* ADF&G North Slope bear studies reveal that about a dozen once wild
grizzlies have turned into garbage bears in the oil fields.
This is not a paradise for wildlife. It's an oil field.
Ken, just finishing the fuselage jig in Austin, Texas.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
Meadows
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Changes
Kip & all Pietsters!
Don't worry, There's plenty of oil, reports to the contrary are greatly
exaggerated! Extraction is not the problem, unless you factor in
environmental regulations which could drive prices way up. I'm constantly
amazed at the strides being made in drilling and extraction, and besides,
I've been hearing the "Chicken Little" 10-20 year oil thing for the last
20-30 years. Another point: If you don't believe unbridled environmentalism
causes massive price hikes and shortages, then just look at California's
energy mess! We'll all end up paying for that!
SUV's and supply and demand are not the cause of the gasoline price hikes.
It's OPEC. If we all parked our cars tomorrow, gas would cost the same -
maybe more! OPEC limits its oil output and therby sets the crude prices that
directly affects gasoline prices. Supply & demand may cause some minor
fluctuations, but are not the cause of overall higher prices.
We should also drill ANWR, and any other place that looks good for
production. Honestly, Prudhoe is a better place for animals thanks to the
oil industry.
Finally, On a pertinent note, Kudos to Mike Bell! I received my BPA
reprints today! What a goldmine!! Thanks Mike!
Corky - Hang in there buddy and keep building, you're gonna fly that Piet
yet! I think the new certificate class is something the FAA may do right,
and will provide another shot-in-the-arm for aviation!
Gary Meadows
Working on landing gear in Texas!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
Meadows
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Changes
Kip & all Pietsters!
Don't worry, There's plenty of oil, reports to the contrary are greatly
exaggerated! Extraction is not the problem, unless you factor in
environmental regulations which could drive prices way up. I'm constantly
amazed at the strides being made in drilling and extraction, and besides,
I've been hearing the "Chicken Little" 10-20 year oil thing for the last
20-30 years. Another point: If you don't believe unbridled environmentalism
causes massive price hikes and shortages, then just look at California's
energy mess! We'll all end up paying for that!
SUV's and supply and demand are not the cause of the gasoline price hikes.
It's OPEC. If we all parked our cars tomorrow, gas would cost the same -
maybe more! OPEC limits its oil output and therby sets the crude prices that
directly affects gasoline prices. Supply & demand may cause some minor
fluctuations, but are not the cause of overall higher prices.
We should also drill ANWR, and any other place that looks good for
production. Honestly, Prudhoe is a better place for animals thanks to the
oil industry.
Finally, On a pertinent note, Kudos to Mike Bell! I received my BPA
reprints today! What a goldmine!! Thanks Mike!
Corky - Hang in there buddy and keep building, you're gonna fly that Piet
yet! I think the new certificate class is something the FAA may do right,
and will provide another shot-in-the-arm for aviation!
Gary Meadows
Working on landing gear in Texas!
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
Don
One thing to note on the carbs. The B has its float hinge line 90 degrees to
the A. The B's is in line with the airplanes roll axis and is less prone to
fuel level changes with pitch/ attitude change.
The mags will fire more reliably with solid core wire. If the voltage is too
high with carbon core the spark jumps the "safety gap" in
the mag causing a misfire.
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: <DonanClara(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Magneto
>
> Lou
>
> Doug Bryant has been very helpful with suggestions on my rich mixture
problem
> with the 'A'. Don't recall if his mention of going to solid copper wire
was
> online or in some of our direct correspondence. He said the change made a
> marked improvement on his engine. He is actually running two ( ! )
> 'A'-powered Piets.
> I saw the article you referrred to but don't know what he means by
'yellow'
> wire. Should that color have some significance? In regard to float level,
I
> have that information for the 'A' carb but do not know if it is the same
for
> the 'B' carb that I'm using, and I believe you are using. If you can find
out
> this info please pass it along. Don Hicks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 4/30/01 6:58:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
DonanClara(at)aol.com writes:
> Doug Bryant has been very helpful with suggestions on my rich mixture
> problem
> with the 'A'. Don't recall if his mention of going to solid copper wire was
> online or in some of our direct correspondence. He said the change made a
> marked improvement on his engine. He is actually running two ( ! )
> 'A'-powered Piets.
> I saw the article you referrred to but don't know what he means by 'yellow'
> wire. Should that color have some significance? In regard to float level,
> I
> have that information for the 'A' carb but do not know if it is the same
> for
> the 'B' carb that I'm using, and I believe you are using. If you can find
> out
> this info please pass it along. Don Hicks
>
>
>
Don,
The yellow wires on Howard henderson's airplane are a high quality solid
copper wire from made by Accell and aquired from a hot rod magazine. The
Accell wires sold in auto parts stores around here are the resistive type.
Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | building the fuselage |
Hi Jeff,
The gussets go on both sides of the longerons. I made my jig so the right
side had the outside facing up in the jig. I glued on all gussets and the
plywood siding while in the jig, then popped it out and glued on the inside
gussets. Reverse procedure for the left side. Butt joints are not strong,
so anyplace that didn't get a permanent gusset glued in place in the jig, I
nailed a temporary gusset to hold it until a permanent gusset was applied
outside the jig. Does that make sense?
Good Luck,
Jack Phillips
------Original Message------
From: "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: building the fuselage
Hey guys,
What is the most common way of building the fuselage considering that
the gussets are one the inside? Do you build the right side first with the
gussets glued on top of the joints, then for the left side just make butt
joints and add the gussets to the inside after the left side frame has been
lifted off the building table? I know I could glue the plywood side to the
outside of the left frame while it is in the jig but I would rather do that
after the fuselage is together and attached at the tail post (because part
of the plywood extends aft enough to where the fuselage starts to come
together).
Corky, hope you get back to speed soon. Is there any association
between the need for your heart surgery and the special ingredient you add
to your shrimp dish?
Jeff in Texas cheering for the Toronto Maple Leafs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sides & Gussets |
Hi Mike,
I'm a little further ahead and have just about finished installation of the
control system. While some things were slightly more difficult to reach
with the plywood sides in place, I prefer the extra rigidity the plywood
gives the structure. While installing the control system, I spent a lot of
time sitting in the seat figuring out where things should go to "feel
right". I don't know if I would want to put my heavy butt in the fuselage
sitting on sawhorses without the plywood. Just something to think about
before you commit.
Good Luck,
Jack
Control system done, heel brakes installed, working on a Mike Cuy type trim
system in North Carolina
------Original Message------
From: "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sct.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sides & Gussets
One of the notes that I've seen repeated on this list is that leaving
the side sheets off of the fuse until you're done with most of the
innards makes it a lot easier to install the innards. I'm at the
stage where I have the sides together on my work table. With the
inner gussets installed, the rigidity is quite sufficient and it takes
handling and bending the tail together just fine. I did one side
first with the gussets and then the second without. I think that I
had to redo one of the butt joints
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
05/01/2001 10:13:05 AM
Mike,
Thanks for posting an alternate address for that information. I couldn't
get in
to the one Mike Bell posted, I think because there wasn't enough space on
my
Netscape's address line to copy the whole thing.
Mike B., thanks for posing the original address! BTW, I have been perusing
the
copy of the BPA newsletters that you sent & I've noticed that issues #34
(4th quarter 1991) & issue # 38 (4th quarter 1992) are missing. Do they
exist?
I'd hate to miss any of the information in these newsletters, the rest of
the
set is fantastic! Along with this list, it's going to be a MAJOR resource
when I
get my project started.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
My thanks to both Mikes for the reference and address of the Fred Weick
report re: propeller design. It comes at just the right time for me.
Thanks again
John Dilatush, Salida CO (finishing up)
dilatush(at)amigo.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Chambers" <kchambers(at)m2k.com> |
| Subject: | Sport Pilot Changes |
Gary
Not sure I follow you. Inappropriate in what way?
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
Meadows
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Changes
Ken,
That was a really inappropriate note. This topic had died, and rightfully
so. I'll respond offlist.
Gary Meadows
Consulting Research Technologist - Texaco Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Sky Scout on e-bay |
Guys- Saw this while looking thru e-bay today.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=584120023
Bid price is now at $3,000 and auction ends May 7th. It's got a 65 hp Cont.
engine with a 100 hours on it. Heck, the engine (if done right) and
prop/mags/carb/
etc. is worth 3 K. Don't know anything more than what this auction
says.....might
be worth a parts airplane.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"Fishnet"
| Subject: | the light went on for wt and balance. |
The other day I recieved the Piet newsletter. In there was the article on
the fellow who showed the work on his weight and balance for his Air Camper.
Up till then my head would spin when looking at a wt. and bal sheet that
determined the specs on a certain plane. I could seem to follow along with
the specs, but didn't fully grasp it.
Now after reading that article in the newsletter, and the part about
weighing all the parts, and doing the weight and balance without ever
putting the plane together, the big light came on.
On my first plane, I thought the only way to do it was to put in fuel, and
me sit in it and weigh all three wheels
Now I see how to weigh the plane empty (or even in pieces), then , on paper,
add me, a passenger, fuel,(one or both tanks), battery if I want, and where
to put it, what effect a tailwheel over a skid will have . All's you need
is a scale, tape measure, and a calculator etc. etc. blah, blah.
I'm 53 , and I love to learn new stuff.
Ain't life grand.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: the light went on for wt and balance. |
In a message dated 5/1/01 6:06:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< Now I see how to weigh the plane empty (or even in pieces), then , on
paper,
add me, a passenger, fuel,(one or both tanks), battery if I want, and where
to put it, what effect a tailwheel over a skid will have . All's you need
is a scale, tape measure, and a calculator etc. etc. blah, blah.
I'm 53 , and I love to learn new stuff.
Ain't life grand. >>
Its all in the "moment" lol PUN intented LOL
Its just a balance scale, with your CG as the Balance point or Pivot point.
To get any plane in balance, alll the "moments" on each side have to be equal
1 lb at 100in = 100 in/lbs 10lbs at 10in is 100in/lbs. When these are
placed on the "balance" they WILL balance out. I've not seen the newsletter
article your speaking of, but have done Weight and balance sheets.
(any corrections or additions are welcome)
-dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: the light went on for wt and balance. |
Haven't gotten to the W & B yet but I feel as good as Evans as I just
completed the first step on covering. Bought the Practice Poly Kit with 1 yd
of dacron. I covered my vertical stab, ironed it out according to
instructions. It made me look like a hero in the eyes of my bride. I have
enough material to cover the rudder. Now I know what I'll do tomorrow.
Thought that Poly Tack was alot too thick. I thinned it some in a seperate
vessel and it worked well. I'm still reading and learning even after 78
years.
Corky in beautiful La.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ken breier" <kbreier(at)mediaone.net> |
OK.....I have my "vair" and the plans,so who do you suggest I order my wood
from? Thanks Ken in Hotlanta
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Ken,
How close are you to Griffin Ga.? Aircraft Spruce has their east office
there, that's where I get most of my stuff. The address is:
Aircraft Spruce East
900 S. Pine Hill Road
Griffin, Georgia 30223
Tele: 770-228-3901
Fax: 770-229-2329
If that's near you, you could sure save some $$$ on shipping!
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ken breier" <kbreier(at)mediaone.net> |
Thanks Gary, I'm close to Griffin(Duluth) Where are you? Did you go with
spruce all the way? Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood kit
>
> Ken,
>
> How close are you to Griffin Ga.? Aircraft Spruce has their east office
> there, that's where I get most of my stuff. The address is:
>
> Aircraft Spruce East
> 900 S. Pine Hill Road
> Griffin, Georgia 30223
> Tele: 770-228-3901
> Fax: 770-229-2329
>
> If that's near you, you could sure save some $$$ on shipping!
>
> Gary Meadows
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "SAM & JAN MARINUCCI" <srmjem(at)ezol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: the light went on for wt and balance. |
Corky,
I'm 65 and I thought I was too old to start a project as time
consuming as building an airplane. You are my hero and inspiration. Hang in
there, work on it every day and before you know it , it will be finished.
Let us know how it progresses.
Good luck,
Sam
. I'm still reading and learning even after 78
>years.
>Corky in beautiful La.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Williams" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
PLEASE-
No,
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!
#1 Save all your political/environmental/personal agendas for a more suitable
forum (ie someone who cares).
#2 When you are responding to a note, don't send the entire three-page original
text with your reply. It clutters up the site and has been addressed by our
host as a no-no.
#3 Build more Piets.
Thanks
Put in a NEW mag, rebuilt the carb, awaiting the next engine run. Can't wait to
turn dead dinosaurs into smoke and noise!! (how insensitive of me)
f"http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Missing Issues in BPA reprint |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sct.com> |
05/02/2001 08:45:30 AM
Grant had a note about a missing issue somewhere that I saw. I also
left out one issue that was a calendar with some nice pix, but no
information. I'll check and see if they are the ones that you listed.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Ken,
I've sort of split my orders between Spruce and Wicks. There is a fellow
in Canada also, Jean something, maybe someone else can give you his info, it
may be on Aircamper.Org, I hear he puts out a nice complete, extremely high
quality wood kit. The people who've bought that have all been very happy.
I'm pretty sure Carl Loar used him - right Carl?
I'll be ordering spars before too long, and I'm leaning toward Wicks, I
used them for my longerons, and they were very nice. If I could arrange a
pickup at Spruce, though, then I'd probably use them exclusively. I guess I
feel like Wicks is the little guy, and I try to support little guys when I
can.
If I can find that name up in Canada, I'll get it to you. I do know he's
planning on retiring soon, so if you want to use him, make your move
quickly!
Best of Luck!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
| Subject: | Re: Missing Issues in BPA reprint |
05/02/2001 09:44:00 AM
Mike,
Thanks vey much for checking. If it's the situation you suspect, no
problem.I just didn't want to miss any information.
Cheers!
Kip
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
05/02/2001 10:17:51 AM
Gary,
The guy in Canada you are referring to used to be listed in the 'suppliers'
section of Aircamper.org. Back before the site went off-line & was
resurrected, there was a note that he was retiring at the end of 2000. his
name & address are not on the current list. BTW, has anyone had trouble
with the links to Aircamper.org? I have to retype each link after I go to
it (I have to add: www.aircamper.org/ to each link) to get a valid
connection. Anyone else having problems?
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
The guy in Canada is Jean Peters of Western Aircraft Supply. His Ph # is
403-250 1955.
I believe he planned on retiring in June so I would call him soon. His fuse
package is really nice.
I imagine that the wing kit is good too. Hope this helps.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Meadows
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood kit
Ken,
I've sort of split my orders between Spruce and Wicks. There is a fellow
in Canada also, Jean something, maybe someone else can give you his info, it
may be on Aircamper.Org, I hear he puts out a nice complete, extremely high
quality wood kit. The people who've bought that have all been very happy.
I'm pretty sure Carl Loar used him - right Carl?
I'll be ordering spars before too long, and I'm leaning toward Wicks, I
used them for my longerons, and they were very nice. If I could arrange a
pickup at Spruce, though, then I'd probably use them exclusively. I guess I
feel like Wicks is the little guy, and I try to support little guys when I
can.
If I can find that name up in Canada, I'll get it to you. I do know he's
planning on retiring soon, so if you want to use him, make your move
quickly!
Best of Luck!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Need a Ford engine ??? |
Fellers.....
Grant MacLaren just posted this on his Piet web page. I guess this
Jack McCarthy is a good engine guy.
Mike C.
(5/2/01) For Sale Ford A, short block, overhauled by McKee, flown 50
hours in my Piet, removed for poor valve set up, now has new valves,
guides, springs checked for correct tension & shimmed for proper
tension, never found any babbit in oil, don't need this as a spare, have 2
more ready for rebuild, $800, will bring it to Brodhead 2001 Jack
McCarthy 410-643-1785
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Controls angular travel |
Pieters,
Please help me fill in the blanks as I made one end on my control cables
today:
Angular Travel
Elevator up ________ degrees down ________ degrees
Rudder ________ degrees each side of neutral
Aileron ________degrees up ______ degrees Down
Thanks
Corky in La wondering where to cut his cables
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Controls angular travel |
Corky,
I centered my joystick, and centered the walking beam and then made the
cables to fit so that with the stick in the neutral position the walking
beam was pretty much vertical. Then I clamped the elevators level with the
stabilizer and made the cables between the walking beam and the elevators
fit with the turnbuckles about in the midpoint of their travel. Final
adjustment will be done when rigging the plane. Stops are put in after the
cables are run.
The rudder is done the same way - with the rudder clamped neutral and the
rudder bar neutral, I made the cables fit with the turnbuckles at their
midpoint so I've got some adjustment to play with. Final adjustment will be
done in the final rigging. Stops will be added to keep the rudder from
banging into the elevators. Remember that under flight loads cables will
stretch and the control surfaces will deflect some, so if you put stops at
the controls in the cockpit, you will get less deflection of the control
surfaces in flight than you do on the ground.
Good luck,
Jack in even more beautiful North Carolina
Pieters,
Please help me fill in the blanks as I made one end on my control cables
today:
Angular Travel
Elevator up ________ degrees down ________ degrees
Rudder ________ degrees each side of neutral
Aileron ________degrees up ______ degrees Down
Thanks
Corky in La wondering where to cut his cables
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Desire a bi-wing homebuilt ? |
Walt Snyder tipped me off to this......copied from the Pacific Flyer's web
page:
This sounds like a neat project for those of us who desire two wings, yet can't
afford the big bucks for a Stearman, Fleet, Waco.....
Does the $80,000-$150,000 asking price for a vintage Stearman PT-17 take
the air out of
your dream of flying one of these classic open-cockpit
biplanes?
Help is on the way. Acompany in Duncan, B.C., Canada is
working on a solution that will turn
that dream into a reality. In a tiny workshop on the
outskirts of town, craftsman are putting the
finishing touches on a scaled-down ultralight version of
the Stearman Model 75.
This 80% replica of the legendary WW II primary trainer is
the brainchild of Richard Walton,
founder of Replica Aircraft Works. The prototype is being
hand-built from quality Sitka
spruce, Douglas fir and Western red cedar, with metal
fittings and Ceconite fabric covering.
Replica Aircraft Works' parent company, RAW Resources, has
been in the wood business for
years. Its salvages timber from the forest floor, as well
as old bridges and buildings, and turns
it into precisely milled aircraft-quality wood.
"We're building the plane with wood that has exceptional
and distinct features. It meets or
exceeds the specifications set by the Canadian Ministry of
Transport, the FAA and the British
CAA," explained Walton.
With an empty weight estimated at 690 pounds and a useful
load of more than 500 pounds,
the plane will qualify as an ultralight with the Canadian
Ministry of Transport. Despite its
scaled-down size and weight, the replica Stearman is not
really a "small" airplane.
It is 20 feet long and has a 25.7-foot wingspan with 190.5
square feet of lifting area. The
cockpit openings are 26 inches across, wide enough for the
average pilot.
Unlike its big brother, the replica will have ailerons on
both the upper and lower wings. Flight
controls are activated by push-pull tubes with
anti-friction bearings.
The tubular steel landing gear is a scaled-down exact
replica of the fullsize Stearman, including
the internal mechanisms.
The powerplant is a custom-made, seven-cylinder Rotec
R-2800 radial turning a 70-inch,
fixed-pitch wood prop. Made in Australia, the
173-cubic-inch engine develops between 80
and 100 hp at 2500-2800 rpm.
Even with all accessories, including a rear-mounted,
12-volt starter motor, the R-2800 weighs
a mere 219 pounds. Walton estimated it will pull the plane
along at 100 mph (90 mph at 60%
power, top speed 108) on a stingy three gph fuel burn.
The instrument panel in the replica will meet minimum VFR
requirements but there is space for
optional gyro instruments and a radio. Otherwise, pilots
will use handheld GPS and
NAV/COM units with antennas mounted inside the fuselage.
MORE DETAILS in April Pacific Flyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Controls angular travel |
Thanks Jack,
Another little problem solved with the help of the list.
Corky in it's beginning to get hot in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Summers" <Dsummers(at)hot1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Controls angular travel |
Our email address is changing to dsummers(at)clearsource.net.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Controls angular travel
>
> Pieters,
> Please help me fill in the blanks as I made one end on my control cables
> today:
>
> Angular Travel
> Elevator up ________ degrees down ________ degrees
>
> Rudder ________ degrees each side of neutral
>
> Aileron ________degrees up ______ degrees Down
>
>
> Thanks
> Corky in La wondering where to cut his cables
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Summers" <Dsummers(at)hot1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Controls angular travel |
Our email address is changing to dsummers(at)clearsource.net.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Controls angular travel
>
> Corky,
>
> I centered my joystick, and centered the walking beam and then made the
> cables to fit so that with the stick in the neutral position the walking
> beam was pretty much vertical. Then I clamped the elevators level with
the
> stabilizer and made the cables between the walking beam and the elevators
> fit with the turnbuckles about in the midpoint of their travel. Final
> adjustment will be done when rigging the plane. Stops are put in after
the
> cables are run.
>
> The rudder is done the same way - with the rudder clamped neutral and the
> rudder bar neutral, I made the cables fit with the turnbuckles at their
> midpoint so I've got some adjustment to play with. Final adjustment will
be
> done in the final rigging. Stops will be added to keep the rudder from
> banging into the elevators. Remember that under flight loads cables will
> stretch and the control surfaces will deflect some, so if you put stops at
> the controls in the cockpit, you will get less deflection of the control
> surfaces in flight than you do on the ground.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Jack in even more beautiful North Carolina
>
>
> Pieters,
> Please help me fill in the blanks as I made one end on my control cables
> today:
>
> Angular Travel
> Elevator up ________ degrees down ________ degrees
>
> Rudder ________ degrees each side of neutral
>
> Aileron ________degrees up ______ degrees Down
>
>
> Thanks
> Corky in La wondering where to cut his cables
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Summers" <Dsummers(at)hot1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need a Ford engine ??? |
Our email address is changing to dsummers(at)clearsource.net.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Need a Ford engine ???
>
> Fellers.....
>
> Grant MacLaren just posted this on his Piet web page. I guess this
> Jack McCarthy is a good engine guy.
>
> Mike C.
>
> (5/2/01) For Sale Ford A, short block, overhauled by McKee, flown 50
> hours in my Piet, removed for poor valve set up, now has new valves,
> guides, springs checked for correct tension & shimmed for proper
> tension, never found any babbit in oil, don't need this as a spare, have
2
> more ready for rebuild, $800, will bring it to Brodhead 2001 Jack
> McCarthy 410-643-1785
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
In a recent post to Corky, Jack Phillips said that he centered his
controls, then made up his cables with the turnbuckles at mid travel for
later adjustment. This brings up a question that I have had for a long time
and haven't found the answer to in any of my reading stuff. I'm very close
to starting on my control cables so I need to know.
I've seen several times, people stating that no more than three treads
should be showing on a turnbuckle after final adjustment but they have
always been refering to standing rigging ( cabane strut cross cables, lift
strut cross cables etc.) The question is does the three tread rule only
apply to standing rigging and not control cables?? I've often wondered how
the heck you're supposed to get control cables measured up that accurately.
Is there a different ruling for the turnbuckles in control cables?? thanks.
Ed G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: turnbuckles?? |
The "3 Thread" rule applies to all turnbuckles (ref. AC43.13).
Dale and I, when making up our cable assemblies, set all turnbuckles with the last
thread of the fork or cable eye just flush with the end of the barrel. Then
we strung the cables and cut them.
After nicopressing or swaging they all turned out fine. Using the "0 thread" as
a starting point allows for a large variance in the length of the cables.
Greg Cardinal
>>> "Ed Grentzer" 05/04 6:14 AM >>>
In a recent post to Corky, Jack Phillips said that he centered his
controls, then made up his cables with the turnbuckles at mid travel for
later adjustment. This brings up a question that I have had for a long time
and haven't found the answer to in any of my reading stuff. I'm very close
to starting on my control cables so I need to know.
I've seen several times, people stating that no more than three treads
should be showing on a turnbuckle after final adjustment but they have
always been refering to standing rigging ( cabane strut cross cables, lift
strut cross cables etc.) The question is does the three tread rule only
apply to standing rigging and not control cables?? I've often wondered how
the heck you're supposed to get control cables measured up that accurately.
Is there a different ruling for the turnbuckles in control cables?? thanks.
Ed G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Welding question |
Here is a question for the welding experts:: I'm no expert welder,
(still learning) but have done ok, but lately when I start my puddle
there is a loud "pop". My puddle explodes and is gone. This happens
every time i get the puddle going. The welding eq. is set up the way
I've had it set in the past and had no puddle explosions. What am I
doing wrong? Leon S. in soon to be browned out hot Kansas.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Ed,
The 3-thread rule applies to control cables as well. The reason being that
the threads which are exposed are doing you no good whatsoever for strength.
Control cables can carry several hundred pounds of load and all this is
transmitted through the threads of the turnbuckle.
What I do is to thread my turnbuckles all the way in, then start unscrewing
them, counting the turns until I have three threads exposed. On AN130-16S
turnbuckles, which is what most of mine are, I invariably end up with about
20 turns from all the way in to 3 threads showing. I then screw them back
in half that many turns. Then I measure the cable run as accurately as I
can. For example, on the elevator cables, I clamped the elevators level
with the stabilizer and measured from the shackle on the walking beam to the
hole in the elevator horns. Both sides should be exactly the same length
(or at least very close) if you have made your horns accurately and the tail
is square with the fuselage. If there is a slight difference in length, you
should use the average of the two lengths.
I then put two screws part way into my workbench the exact distance required
to match the measured distance from the walking beam to the elevator horn.
Be sure to account for any shackles or fittings involved. I usually put the
workbench screw through the shackle so I know I have the correct length for
the cable assembly, including the shackle and turnbuckle. Once the screws
are in place, the cable can be built by hooking the thimbles or shackles
over the screws and pulling tight before crimping the nicopress fittings in
place.
Since you have an accurate jig now (the screws in your workbench) it is easy
to make a second cable assembly exactly the same length as the first. The
amount of travel left in the turnbuckles if you start with them in the
middle of their travel is about an inch either way and that should be plenty
for any rigging changes required.
I don't know if this is clear. If not, send me your e-mail address and I
will try to draw a picture.
Good Luck,
Jack Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William C. Beerman" <wcb(at)pliantsystems.com> |
No expert, but...
You're getting the tip of the torch too hot and the pop is gas
combusting inside
the tip. Try a little higher gas (and oxy) flow, and maybe the next size
larger
tip. The gas flow actually helps cool the tip. Also, you can try
adjusting your
torch angle a bit. Good luck, and keep practicing!
Leon Stefan wrote:
>
>
> Here is a question for the welding experts:: I'm no expert welder,
> (still learning) but have done ok, but lately when I start my puddle
> there is a loud "pop". My puddle explodes and is gone. This happens
> every time i get the puddle going. The welding eq. is set up the way
> I've had it set in the past and had no puddle explosions. What am I
> doing wrong? Leon S. in soon to be browned out hot Kansas.
>
--
__
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: turnbuckles?? |
Sorry, but I can't let this opportunity to get away without my personal
input. On the 3 thread rule, I imagine this was dreamed up by some idiot
bureaucrat trying to look busy on Friday afternoon so he could CHA and
justify his pay. How much strength is there in a TB with NO threads exposed
in relation to one with 1, 2, 3, 4, or even 5 threads exposed. Those are the
figures I'd like to know. Have those yankee bureaurs ever got off their
posterial anatomies and run a few tests? Maybe so but with the questions
coming from the field I doubt it. Can any of you imagine enough tension being
applied to an elevator control cable under any abnormal flying conditions in
a Pietenpol as to strip the turnbuckle threads with at least one turn inside
the barrel. Let's get real on this building business. I don't think some of
those YWB's have ever created anything in their lives outside of more
problems for the rest of us who are having fun with our hobby in a very safe
manner. REMEMBER we are the ones who will be up there. I get so damn sick and
tired of these so called officials telling me what ICAN'T do and never saying
what I can do. I wonder what BHP would have said and done in '29 if the
hordes of Washington had been on his a-- as they seem to be on ours.
OK I'm through. I must be feeling better from my surgery as my bride measures
my health with my attitude toward Federal (yankee) employees. Don't anyone
ever ask my opinion of our Postal Service
Corky in La YWB= Yankee Washington Bureaucrats
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: turnbuckles?? |
Corky !
Glad to hear you are feeling better :)) You are a hoot.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Welding question |
Leon Stefan asked:
> Here is a question for the welding experts:: I'm no expert welder,
> (still learning) but have done ok, but lately when I start my puddle
> there is a loud "pop". My puddle explodes and is gone. This happens
> every time i get the puddle going. The welding eq. is set up the way
> I've had it set in the past and had no puddle explosions. What am I
> doing wrong?
There are probably a lot more experienced welders here, but
since I got to it first...
For a start, try cleaning the tip. It sounds like it could be gunked up,
restricting the gas flow. Does the flame look at all "feathery?" A
distorted flame would pretty much confirm it.
Idea 2: Are you by any chance working on heavier material now?
If so, you need a bigger tip. Trying to use one that isn't really big
enough to do the job is the standard cause of popping.
If neither of these does it for you, it may be worthwhile to make
sure that your gas pressures are really right. Instead
setting them with the gauges, try this:
Open the acetylene valve on the torch full-open, light the flame,
and turn the regulator until there is so much gas pressure that
it blows the flame off the tip. Now back it off until the flame
adheres to the tip.
Now feed in oxygen, again with the torch valve full open, using
the regulator to control the amount of O2. Chances are that
it will blow the flame out, and you'll have to back off the acetylene
some more until you can feed in oxygen and keep the flame
attached to the tip.
With the acetylene still on max, add oxygen until you get
a neutral flame.
No matter what the gauges say, those are the right pressure
settings. Go through this each time you use the torch or
change the tip -- it only takes a minute -- and you'll always
have the pressures right.
Now adjust the flame size with the valves on the torch.
Chances are that this won't do a thing for your popping problem,
but it pays to eliminate all the variables you can. My money is
on one of the first two suggestions.
Good luck with it.
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Welding question |
The tip of your torch is getting too hot and the oxy/acetylene mixture is igniting
inside the tip causing the pop. Increase the flow of the oxy/acetylene thru
the tip or try the next bigger tip.
Greg
>>> Leon Stefan 05/04 7:20 AM >>>
Here is a question for the welding experts:: I'm no expert welder,
(still learning) but have done ok, but lately when I start my puddle
there is a loud "pop". My puddle explodes and is gone. This happens
every time i get the puddle going. The welding eq. is set up the way
I've had it set in the past and had no puddle explosions. What am I
doing wrong? Leon S. in soon to be browned out hot Kansas.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
| Subject: | Re: turnbuckles?? |
05/04/2001 10:54:07 AM
Corky,
Also glad to hear you are feeling better. Gee, and I thought YWB meant
something a little different, although I kinda figured "yankee" was still
part of the acronym.
Cheers from MUCH closer to the Potomac,
Kip Gardner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks Jack and Greg for the great turnbuckle info. Having never messed
with a/c turnbuckles yet I assumed that they would bottom out when they were
screwed in the number of turns of threads that were showing like sailboat or
hardware turnbuckles do. From the sound of it
a/c turnbuckles must be counter bored in the ends of the barrels.Thanks also
for the layout info it doesn't sound all that difficult now!
Corky I'm glad your back up to speed. That roto rooter operation didn't
seem to slow you down for long!!! Take care and don't let them Federallies
get to you!
Have a great weekend and thanks again.
Ed G.
>From: Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: turnbuckles??
>Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:23:37 -0400 (EDT)
>
>
>
>Hi Ed,
>
>The 3-thread rule applies to control cables as well. The reason being that
>the threads which are exposed are doing you no good whatsoever for
>strength.
>Control cables can carry several hundred pounds of load and all this is
>transmitted through the threads of the turnbuckle.
>
>What I do is to thread my turnbuckles all the way in, then start unscrewing
>them, counting the turns until I have three threads exposed. On AN130-16S
>turnbuckles, which is what most of mine are, I invariably end up with about
>20 turns from all the way in to 3 threads showing. I then screw them back
>in half that many turns. Then I measure the cable run as accurately as I
>can. For example, on the elevator cables, I clamped the elevators level
>with the stabilizer and measured from the shackle on the walking beam to
>the
>hole in the elevator horns. Both sides should be exactly the same length
>(or at least very close) if you have made your horns accurately and the
>tail
>is square with the fuselage. If there is a slight difference in length,
>you
>should use the average of the two lengths.
>
>I then put two screws part way into my workbench the exact distance
>required
>to match the measured distance from the walking beam to the elevator horn.
>Be sure to account for any shackles or fittings involved. I usually put
>the
>workbench screw through the shackle so I know I have the correct length for
>the cable assembly, including the shackle and turnbuckle. Once the screws
>are in place, the cable can be built by hooking the thimbles or shackles
>over the screws and pulling tight before crimping the nicopress fittings in
>place.
>
>Since you have an accurate jig now (the screws in your workbench) it is
>easy
>to make a second cable assembly exactly the same length as the first. The
>amount of travel left in the turnbuckles if you start with them in the
>middle of their travel is about an inch either way and that should be
>plenty
>for any rigging changes required.
>
>I don't know if this is clear. If not, send me your e-mail address and I
>will try to draw a picture.
>
>Good Luck,
>
>Jack Phillips
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: turnbuckles?? |
Ed,
For all turnbuckle applications, there is not suspossed to be any more
than three threads showing. Cutting and fitting the control cables takes
time and patience.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Welding question |
Leon,
Sometimes this is caused by too much acetylene and sometimes because the
tip of the torch needs to be held a lesser angle -- this is usually when
you're pointing the flame at near vertical, often because you have to due
to something being in the way. If this happens often, it's best to stand
back, let it the weld cool for a bit, check your flame, and start over
again.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Summers" <Dsummers(at)hot1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: turnbuckles?? |
Our email address has changed to dsummers(at)clearsource.net.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Grentzer <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: turnbuckles??
>
>
> In a recent post to Corky, Jack Phillips said that he centered his
> controls, then made up his cables with the turnbuckles at mid travel for
> later adjustment. This brings up a question that I have had for a long
time
> and haven't found the answer to in any of my reading stuff. I'm very close
> to starting on my control cables so I need to know.
> I've seen several times, people stating that no more than three treads
> should be showing on a turnbuckle after final adjustment but they have
> always been refering to standing rigging ( cabane strut cross cables, lift
> strut cross cables etc.) The question is does the three tread rule only
> apply to standing rigging and not control cables?? I've often wondered how
> the heck you're supposed to get control cables measured up that
accurately.
> Is there a different ruling for the turnbuckles in control cables??
thanks.
> Ed G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Summers" <Dsummers(at)hot1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: turnbuckles?? |
Our email address has changed to dsummers(at)clearsource.net.
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Cardinal <gcardinal(at)startribune.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turnbuckles??
>
> The "3 Thread" rule applies to all turnbuckles (ref. AC43.13).
> Dale and I, when making up our cable assemblies, set all turnbuckles with
the last thread of the fork or cable eye just flush with the end of the
barrel. Then we strung the cables and cut them.
> After nicopressing or swaging they all turned out fine. Using the "0
thread" as a starting point allows for a large variance in the length of the
cables.
>
> Greg Cardinal
>
> >>> "Ed Grentzer" 05/04 6:14 AM >>>
>
>
> In a recent post to Corky, Jack Phillips said that he centered his
> controls, then made up his cables with the turnbuckles at mid travel for
> later adjustment. This brings up a question that I have had for a long
time
> and haven't found the answer to in any of my reading stuff. I'm very close
> to starting on my control cables so I need to know.
> I've seen several times, people stating that no more than three treads
> should be showing on a turnbuckle after final adjustment but they have
> always been refering to standing rigging ( cabane strut cross cables, lift
> strut cross cables etc.) The question is does the three tread rule only
> apply to standing rigging and not control cables?? I've often wondered how
> the heck you're supposed to get control cables measured up that
accurately.
> Is there a different ruling for the turnbuckles in control cables??
thanks.
> Ed G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Summers" <Dsummers(at)hot1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: turnbuckles?? |
Our email address has been changed to dsummers(at)clearsource.net.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turnbuckles??
>
> Sorry, but I can't let this opportunity to get away without my personal
> input. On the 3 thread rule, I imagine this was dreamed up by some idiot
> bureaucrat trying to look busy on Friday afternoon so he could CHA and
> justify his pay. How much strength is there in a TB with NO threads
exposed
> in relation to one with 1, 2, 3, 4, or even 5 threads exposed. Those are
the
> figures I'd like to know. Have those yankee bureaurs ever got off their
> posterial anatomies and run a few tests? Maybe so but with the questions
> coming from the field I doubt it. Can any of you imagine enough tension
being
> applied to an elevator control cable under any abnormal flying conditions
in
> a Pietenpol as to strip the turnbuckle threads with at least one turn
inside
> the barrel. Let's get real on this building business. I don't think some
of
> those YWB's have ever created anything in their lives outside of more
> problems for the rest of us who are having fun with our hobby in a very
safe
> manner. REMEMBER we are the ones who will be up there. I get so damn sick
and
> tired of these so called officials telling me what ICAN'T do and never
saying
> what I can do. I wonder what BHP would have said and done in '29 if the
> hordes of Washington had been on his a-- as they seem to be on ours.
> OK I'm through. I must be feeling better from my surgery as my bride
measures
> my health with my attitude toward Federal (yankee) employees. Don't anyone
> ever ask my opinion of our Postal Service
>
> Corky in La YWB= Yankee Washington Bureaucrats
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Summers" <Dsummers(at)hot1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: turnbuckles?? |
Our internet service has been changed to dsummers(at)clearsource.net.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: turnbuckles??
>
> Hi Ed,
>
> The 3-thread rule applies to control cables as well. The reason being
that
> the threads which are exposed are doing you no good whatsoever for
strength.
> Control cables can carry several hundred pounds of load and all this is
> transmitted through the threads of the turnbuckle.
>
> What I do is to thread my turnbuckles all the way in, then start
unscrewing
> them, counting the turns until I have three threads exposed. On AN130-16S
> turnbuckles, which is what most of mine are, I invariably end up with
about
> 20 turns from all the way in to 3 threads showing. I then screw them back
> in half that many turns. Then I measure the cable run as accurately as I
> can. For example, on the elevator cables, I clamped the elevators level
> with the stabilizer and measured from the shackle on the walking beam to
the
> hole in the elevator horns. Both sides should be exactly the same length
> (or at least very close) if you have made your horns accurately and the
tail
> is square with the fuselage. If there is a slight difference in length,
you
> should use the average of the two lengths.
>
> I then put two screws part way into my workbench the exact distance
required
> to match the measured distance from the walking beam to the elevator horn.
> Be sure to account for any shackles or fittings involved. I usually put
the
> workbench screw through the shackle so I know I have the correct length
for
> the cable assembly, including the shackle and turnbuckle. Once the screws
> are in place, the cable can be built by hooking the thimbles or shackles
> over the screws and pulling tight before crimping the nicopress fittings
in
> place.
>
> Since you have an accurate jig now (the screws in your workbench) it is
easy
> to make a second cable assembly exactly the same length as the first. The
> amount of travel left in the turnbuckles if you start with them in the
> middle of their travel is about an inch either way and that should be
plenty
> for any rigging changes required.
>
> I don't know if this is clear. If not, send me your e-mail address and I
> will try to draw a picture.
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Jack Phillips
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Summers" <Dsummers(at)hot1.net> |
Our email address has changed to dsummers(at)clearsource.net.
----- Original Message -----
From: William C. Beerman <wcb(at)pliantsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torch "pop"
>
> No expert, but...
>
> You're getting the tip of the torch too hot and the pop is gas
> combusting inside
> the tip. Try a little higher gas (and oxy) flow, and maybe the next size
> larger
> tip. The gas flow actually helps cool the tip. Also, you can try
> adjusting your
> torch angle a bit. Good luck, and keep practicing!
>
>
> Leon Stefan wrote:
> >
Stefan)
> >
> > Here is a question for the welding experts:: I'm no expert welder,
> > (still learning) but have done ok, but lately when I start my puddle
> > there is a loud "pop". My puddle explodes and is gone. This happens
> > every time i get the puddle going. The welding eq. is set up the way
> > I've had it set in the past and had no puddle explosions. What am I
> > doing wrong? Leon S. in soon to be browned out hot Kansas.
> >
>
> --
> __
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: turnbuckles?? |
Summers,
When I recieve all of your messages, there is no new text , only a recap of
the subject of others. Are you hitting the right buttons?
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Summers" <Dsummers(at)hot1.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turnbuckles??
>
> Our email address has changed to dsummers(at)clearsource.net.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Greg Cardinal <gcardinal(at)startribune.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 9:13 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turnbuckles??
>
>
>
> >
> > The "3 Thread" rule applies to all turnbuckles (ref. AC43.13).
> > Dale and I, when making up our cable assemblies, set all turnbuckles
with
> the last thread of the fork or cable eye just flush with the end of the
> barrel. Then we strung the cables and cut them.
> > After nicopressing or swaging they all turned out fine. Using the "0
> thread" as a starting point allows for a large variance in the length of
the
> cables.
> >
> > Greg Cardinal
> >
> > >>> "Ed Grentzer" 05/04 6:14 AM >>>
>
> >
> >
> > In a recent post to Corky, Jack Phillips said that he centered his
> > controls, then made up his cables with the turnbuckles at mid travel for
> > later adjustment. This brings up a question that I have had for a long
> time
> > and haven't found the answer to in any of my reading stuff. I'm very
close
> > to starting on my control cables so I need to know.
> > I've seen several times, people stating that no more than three
treads
> > should be showing on a turnbuckle after final adjustment but they have
> > always been refering to standing rigging ( cabane strut cross cables,
lift
> > strut cross cables etc.) The question is does the three tread rule only
> > apply to standing rigging and not control cables?? I've often wondered
how
> > the heck you're supposed to get control cables measured up that
> accurately.
> > Is there a different ruling for the turnbuckles in control cables??
> thanks.
> > Ed G.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: turnbuckles?? |
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turnbuckles??
Corky,
Just remember that Washington DC is below the Mason Dixon Line. Up here in
Jersey we say " Down in Washington".
walt
> OK I'm through. I must be feeling better from my surgery as my bride
measures
> my health with my attitude toward Federal (yankee) employees. Don't anyone
> ever ask my opinion of our Postal Service
>
> Corky in La YWB= Yankee Washington Bureaucrats
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Welding question |
Leon,
What size tip are you using? If you're tip is too large and you try to
throttle it down too low for the thin work, you'll get the popping from the
tip getting too hot from not enough cooling flow, like the other posts said,
Think you have to go to a smaller tip.
I use a 000 tip most of the time for brackets, unless the piece is thick
like the lower strut brackets, where alot of things come together.
Think the largest tip I ever used on the Piet stuff was a #1.
Things that I have learned through trial and error are,
O/A gets some getting used to because its not instant heat like Arc welding.
If you have a big enough flame to heat things up really quick, when you
start to lay a bead, you burn up the piece.
Also a simple tip that sound unimportant is, the flame has to point down
the path that you are going to weld' right down the old chute".
If you preheat you're work, you will get little or no distortion ( like Arc
welding on cold steel).
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Welding question
Stefan)
>
> Here is a question for the welding experts:: I'm no expert welder,
> (still learning) but have done ok, but lately when I start my puddle
> there is a loud "pop". My puddle explodes and is gone. This happens
> every time i get the puddle going. The welding eq. is set up the way
> I've had it set in the past and had no puddle explosions. What am I
> doing wrong? Leon S. in soon to be browned out hot Kansas.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Hey, you pinheads who expouse prejudiced, regional rants, take it
somewhere else.
Mike B Piet N 687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Hey Buster,
If the old shoe fits........wear it
Corky in LA WHERE WE CAN STILL EXPRESS OUR OPINIONS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: turnbuckles?? |
In a message dated 05/04/2001 9:04:59 AM Central Daylight Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
<< I must be feeling better from my surgery >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: turnbuckles?? |
I'll second that Mike.....Go get 'em Corky Love to hear an irascible 79 year
old redneck curmudgeon givin'em what for !!!
Don Hicks ( 77 & holding in Alabama)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Plastic fuel tank |
Pieters,
Am in need of a good plan for a fuel tank, center section.
Thought I might go to the plastic supply place, find some thin plastic
sheets, cut out my shapes, ends ,sides top and bottom aand some baffles. Get
me some glass, resin and tape it all together. Will it work? If any have
built such a tank I'd like to hear from you. On a proposed trip in my new
Piet I'd need at least a 13 gal wing tank along with my 16.5 main.
Corky in nawthin La
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plastic fuel tank |
In a message dated 5/4/01 6:18:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
> Am in need of a good plan for a fuel tank, center section.
> Thought I might go to the plastic supply place, find some thin plastic
> sheets, cut out my shapes, ends ,sides top and bottom aand some baffles.
> Get
> me some glass, resin and tape it all together. Will it work? If any have
> built such a tank I'd like to hear from you. On a proposed trip in my new
> Piet I'd need at least a 13 gal wing tank along with my 16.5 main.
> Corky in nawthin La
>
>
>
Corky,
I build my tanks same shape as the shown on the plans but from four layers of
tooling cloth fiberglass (plus some buildup layers in the corners). I built
two wooden molds, one for the main body of the tank and one for the top.
Then assemble the two pieces with more fiberglass strips and resin. I will
give you more detail on the fittings if you are interested in a tank of this
style. These tanks work very well. I was doubtful at first, haven't had a
minute's trouble with it. I think I still have some pictures of three of
the tanks made this way. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Welding question |
Years ago, I was gas welding, and the constant pops were burning me to a
cinder.
This smart ass kid, fresh out of high school shop class told me how to
adjust the regulators.
He said to light the acetlyene gas, then open the valve on the mixing
handle, until all the black smoke dissappears.
If in this process, the acetlyene flame seperates from the tip,,,
and/or blows itself out, before the black smoke dissappears ....your line
pressure is too high.
On the other hand.
If you open the acetlyene valve, but can't get the black smoke to dissapear,
then your line pressure is too low.
When you have a acetlyene flame which has flared to the point, to where all
the black smoke is gone, and the flame is still attached to the tip, you
have the line pressuer just right.
Next bleed in the oxy.
Oxy hose pressure should be about the same, or a little higher than the
acetlyene.
Open the oxy valve until you get a neutral flame.
Bingo, you are done.
In truth, I sometimes pull the oxy back to a very...very...slightly
carburizing flame. It burns a little cooler,....(a red puddle, rather than
a straw colour puddle)..... it almost never pops, and I never get that nasty
oxygen foaming in a weld.
Bob
>From: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: Pietenpol-List(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Welding question
>Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 08:20:14 -0500 (CDT)
>
>Stefan)
>
>Here is a question for the welding experts:: I'm no expert welder,
>(still learning) but have done ok, but lately when I start my puddle
>there is a loud "pop". My puddle explodes and is gone. This happens
>every time i get the puddle going. The welding eq. is set up the way
>I've had it set in the past and had no puddle explosions. What am I
>doing wrong? Leon S. in soon to be browned out hot Kansas.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Thanks for all the input on my welding problem. I used the method of
adjusting the regulators as described by Owen. That works great. I am
using the larger tip that I used for my 13g wing fittings. That
probably is where I've gone wrong. I'm welding lighter steel now. I'll
go to the smaller tip and try the other suggestions you all gave me.
We'll see how that works. Thanks again. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Plastic fuel tank |
Thanks Doug,
Send it direct so we don't clutter the Piet list. Am getting complaints about
messages that have no interest to some out there.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jared wilkinson <jared_wilkinson(at)yahoo.com> |
All in favor of Corky for President in 2004, say "I".
I wish I had a Grandpa like you, Cork. I get a kick
out of your messages, and I say keep 'em coming. Keep
kickin' a.. in Loooosiana!!
Future Missouri Pieter.
Jared
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
Sorry, Corky, but your "turnbuckle bureaucrat" has been long retired and is
probably dead & buried! (must have worked in the Civil Aeronautics Board
under Roosevelt!! ;-)
I checked thru my old copy of CAM 18 for the "3 threads" (it's there) & in
the 1958 Amateur Builders Manual (early EAA pub.) it has a drawing showing 3
threads out to 4 threads in as a range for adjustment. That gives us a
range of 7/16" on the 1600# turnbuckles -- enough to adjust your elevator
trailing edge + or - 1" from the walking beam connection.
another Mike C. -- (waiting for my wood to arrive!!)
Pretty Prairie, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Plastic fuel tank |
Corky, I plan on making a fiberglass tank as per Tony B's book. I made the
top and bottom molds from cardboard.
I figure to lay in the two halves, put in the center baffle, put in the
float and petcocks and filler neck and slap it together.
Make sure the resin is the gasproof stuff. Soft gooey fuel tanks are bad.
not bad good but bad bad )
Carl in Toledo where the weather is completely different everyday.
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plastic fuel tank
Pieters,
Am in need of a good plan for a fuel tank, center section.
Thought I might go to the plastic supply place, find some thin plastic
sheets, cut out my shapes, ends ,sides top and bottom aand some baffles. Get
me some glass, resin and tape it all together. Will it work? If any have
built such a tank I'd like to hear from you. On a proposed trip in my new
Piet I'd need at least a 13 gal wing tank along with my 16.5 main.
Corky in nawthin La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Plastic fuel tank |
Thanks Carl,
I forgot about Tony's book. I'll go upstairs and read a bit on the subject
and be back with you. Also, can't find the paper on the proposed flight
restrictions for the new "Sport Pilot". I remember it was vfr day only. Do
you know if they are proposing any restriction on flights outside the Cont
USA?
Corky in La where the humility is always high.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Plastic fuel tank |
Corky wrote that he was...
" Am in need of a good plan for a fuel tank, center section...
...I'd need at least a 13 gal wing tank along with my 16.5 main.
Corky in nawthin La"
My question is, where would you put a MAIN tank of 16.5 gal?
I could see where you might get 13 gal in the wing tank with
careful sizing of the tank, but where in the fuselage would you
hide 16.5 gal? Ah, I got it, a centerline drop tank, that would
do it.
Rodger
Wing 95% complete---15% left to go.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Plastic fuel tank |
Rodger,
I've got this beautiful alum tank that rides forward of the passenger. Joe C
said it holds 16+ gal and if Joe C says it , it will. I will need 30 gals to
get where I plan to go.
Corky, you know where.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fishin" <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plastic fuel tank |
Hey Corky---29.5 gal of fuel??? flights outside cont. USA. ??? what's
that Cajun mind of your's cooking up ? planning to defect across the Gulf
?? I don't think Tony Bs books show installation of relief tubes which I'm
sure would be required.
just sitting here wondering..
JoeC in NE IL where it's 84 deg early in week and 49 deg by the week-end
N99621
ps---covering video is on it's way to you
Do
>you know if they are proposing any restriction on flights outside the Cont
>USA?
>Corky in La where the humility is always high.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fishin" <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plastic fuel tank |
Hey Corky-- 30 gal of fuel ??(5 hrs @ 85mph=425mi+) & flights outside cont.
USA ??
what's going on in that Cajun mind of yours??? planning to defect across
the Gulf???
I don't think Tony Bs books have an installation of relief tubes which I'm
quite sure you'll need. just sitting here thinking what's going down
there in Ya'll land.
JoeC in NE IL where the week started with 84 deg and finished with a high of
50.
N99621
ps-- your covering video is on it's way to you
-----Original Message-----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Date: Saturday, May 05, 2001 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plastic fuel tank
>
>Rodger,
>I've got this beautiful alum tank that rides forward of the passenger. Joe
C
>said it holds 16+ gal and if Joe C says it , it will. I will need 30 gals
to
>get where I plan to go.
>Corky, you know where.
>
>
>_-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Plastic fuel tank |
Well Joe, it's no use spending all that time and money on something mobile
unless you move. On the tube, I think I still have my WWII canteen cup.
WANT TO GO WITH ME?
Corky, who can't stand confinement even if it's La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fishin" <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plastic fuel tank |
ya know, my Coupe carries 24 gal at roughly the same burn rate but I don't
think I can sit for more than a couple of hours at a time. since the coupe
is a convertable I also can appreciate open cockpit flying, whatcha got in
mind?????
ps. I don't fly over water I can't see across.
JoeC
N99621
-----Original Message-----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Date: Saturday, May 05, 2001 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plastic fuel tank
>
>Well Joe, it's no use spending all that time and money on something mobile
>unless you move. On the tube, I think I still have my WWII canteen cup.
>WANT TO GO WITH ME?
>Corky, who can't stand confinement even if it's La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi friends
Leon, i am no expert on gas welding,( i am learning
too) but i had the same problems with my equipment,
after check the equipment, i fix the problem cleaning
the torche tip, and the mixer, with a small need.
when i weld with CMS-32 welding rods the tip is
blocked easily, but with other kind off weldings rods
this does not happen.
I hope that this you help.
Javier Cruz
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Hello Javier: I have been careful to keep my tips clean, but the tip
cleaners only are about 2" long. I've always wondered if I'm only
pushing trash deeper up the inside the tip where it remains to continue
causing me problems. Thanks for all the hints. Leon S. Thinking about
all the questions I shoudda asked at the welding forums last year.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Wilcox" <CraigWilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
I use large pipe cleaners and compressed air (blow through the small tip)
when I've had a lot of pre-combustion pops. The tip cleaners are good for
normal use, and for keeping the tip the correct diameter. Just work on the
copper part - it will unscrew from the brass part that screws onto the
handle. Do wipe off any accumulations down at the base of the mixer.
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Welding:
Stefan)
>
> Hello Javier: I have been careful to keep my tips clean, but the tip
> cleaners only are about 2" long. I've always wondered if I'm only
> pushing trash deeper up the inside the tip where it remains to continue
> causing me problems. Thanks for all the hints. Leon S. Thinking about
> all the questions I shoudda asked at the welding forums last year.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:carb heat |
Pieters, I just built my exhaust stacks and am wondering about carb heat.
Back in the 60s I built a Cassutt and it just had "J" stacks so I got my
carb heat with a 2 inch tube under the cylinder barrels. It had a C 90 and
I remember I had a tach drop of 50 or more and never had any problem. Now
that I am "alittle' older I worry a little more. Anybody have any
comments.
PS I think Corky is headed for Columbia with that fuel load. If he
ask about speed mods. and armor plate We will know.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Dear Pietenpawlers,
I feel there are many engineers out there in our group who should be able to
answer an engineering question without too much technical description. Do any
of you have any formula to compute floatation. Such as, how much weight can 3
cu ft of air support? What is the best bouyancy to weight ration of various
materials, especially those which could be blown in the leading edge cavity
of a Piet? Consider the water as salty.
Corky, still in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
one cubic foot of air can support 62.4 pounds.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Floatation
>
> Dear Pietenpawlers,
> I feel there are many engineers out there in our group who should be able
to
> answer an engineering question without too much technical description. Do
any
> of you have any formula to compute floatation. Such as, how much weight
can 3
> cu ft of air support? What is the best bouyancy to weight ration of
various
> materials, especially those which could be blown in the leading edge
cavity
> of a Piet? Consider the water as salty.
> Corky, still in La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Corky,
I came up with the same number that Cy did - 62.5 #/cu ft. Looks like
you'd better build light, put in 10 cu ft of sealed air, and plan on
treading water!! Maybe you could use one of those flotation cushions as your
seat pad!
This sounds suspiciously like a Texas Aggie float plane deep-sea fishing
expedition being planned! Are you building the first hybrid Piet - and
airplane crossed with a pirogue?
I don't know the volume of the leading edge tube area, but you could
always fill it full of those dang packing peanuts! At least that way you
could find a use for all those silly things you get in a mail order! It
would also make it easier to seal those in a wing than to try to make a wing
air tight. I've also heard ping-pong balls mentioned on another list before.
That might get expensive!
Corky - I just rememberd that BHP had plans for Pietenpol floats in maybe
the 1933 Flying and Glider manual? With a decent sized engine, that might be
kinda fun! That way, you could land it on the water AND take back off again!
I'll shut up now! Have fun Corky, and I support your regional, prejudiced
views all the way!
Your Texas Breaux,
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
Corky
The first Pietenpol built in Canada that I know of was built in Northern
Quebec at Noranda a mining town and spent all its life on floats and skis.
It was powered by a Vellie (spelling) radial. Floats sure could be a lot of
fun. If you are planning a long trip. may I suggest a video by Dwayne Cole
called Pilotage. A lot of real common sense well explained.
The older builders in this group such as yourself that are inspiration
to the rest of us. Keep going!
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Floatation
>
> Corky,
>
> I came up with the same number that Cy did - 62.5 #/cu ft. Looks like
> you'd better build light, put in 10 cu ft of sealed air, and plan on
> treading water!! Maybe you could use one of those flotation cushions as
your
> seat pad!
>
> This sounds suspiciously like a Texas Aggie float plane deep-sea fishing
> expedition being planned! Are you building the first hybrid Piet - and
> airplane crossed with a pirogue?
>
> I don't know the volume of the leading edge tube area, but you could
> always fill it full of those dang packing peanuts! At least that way you
> could find a use for all those silly things you get in a mail order! It
> would also make it easier to seal those in a wing than to try to make a
wing
> air tight. I've also heard ping-pong balls mentioned on another list
before.
> That might get expensive!
>
> Corky - I just rememberd that BHP had plans for Pietenpol floats in
maybe
> the 1933 Flying and Glider manual? With a decent sized engine, that might
be
> kinda fun! That way, you could land it on the water AND take back off
again!
>
> I'll shut up now! Have fun Corky, and I support your regional,
prejudiced
> views all the way!
>
> Your Texas Breaux,
> Gary
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Thanks John,
Who's old. I've always felt that age was a state of mind.
Corky, that kid in La who wants to go somewhere before the curtain falls
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
Corky, I ain't old ethier, eh? I might be getting older... but I refuse to
grow up!
John Mc in spring time Manitoba.
Spending too much time on other old airplanes and dreamin' of finishing my
Piet.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Floatation
>
> Thanks John,
> Who's old. I've always felt that age was a state of mind.
> Corky, that kid in La who wants to go somewhere before the curtain falls
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
John,
You might have interpreted the "floation" question as for a float plane. NO i
will not try to put my Piet on floats even though we have lots of h20 here in
LA. My purpose was to find out how much floatation would I need to keep above
water level in case....
before Sea and Rescue could arrive.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
Corky,
Hmmmmmmmmmm... a Great Circle Route from La. to Bermuda sounds more likely,
just be careful of the Bermuda Triangle effect. Not to mention the sunburn
effect on the beaches too.
I vote for the foam peanuts ahead of the front spar for floatation, now
that's a great idea of how to get rid of them. Heck, fill between the spars
too, just keep them away from the aileron cables. I've kept all I ever
received and recycle them into boxes I ship out to friends and family to
keep keep them out of the landfills. We all could donate for a worthy cause,
but that might swamp you. (no pun intended)
Rodger
Still building in the Texas Hill Country
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Did you get my message about my lost friend Lee Graham?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
Corky,
Foam peanuts & ping pong balls aside, you might consider some 1930's
technology -- a lot of the Navy aircraft of that period had inflatable
balloons for flotation for ditching -- don't the dive shops have similar??
Mike Conkling
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodger & Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Floatation
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
>
> Corky,
>
> Hmmmmmmmmmm... a Great Circle Route from La. to Bermuda sounds more
likely,
> just be careful of the Bermuda Triangle effect. Not to mention the sunburn
> effect on the beaches too.
>
> I vote for the foam peanuts ahead of the front spar for floatation, now
> that's a great idea of how to get rid of them. Heck, fill between the
spars
> too, just keep them away from the aileron cables. I've kept all I ever
> received and recycle them into boxes I ship out to friends and family to
> keep keep them out of the landfills. We all could donate for a worthy
cause,
> but that might swamp you. (no pun intended)
>
> Rodger
> Still building in the Texas Hill Country
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
Corky,
I really know what your after but I'm sorry, I don't know the specific
gravity of Cuban cigars. Also, Jamacain rum is only slightly less than
water so that's no help either. :)
Make a carboard formed container (formed like the leading edge or wing bay)
and fill it with expansion foam. Remove the carboard and put the foam
shapes in the plane. I'm not sure if the expansion foam generates a sealed
surface or acts like a sponge so experiment first.
Robert Haines
Murphysboro, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pietlist(at)juno.com |
I have been wanting to build a Pietenpaul for a long time. I live in
Central Mississippi and I am married to a beautiful lady from the
Philippines and we have a 7 yr old son. Anyone in our area building
please write us back n let us know where you live.
Thanks
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shawn" <devildog(at)digiscape.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Morning yall! |
Hey Steve,
My dad and I are in the process of building a piet (only have about 16 ribs
made right now). Slowly but surely we will get more and more built! But we
live in Gulfport and would be more than happy to talk to you, share ideas
and info. Also this list is a GREAT resource of information. Seems like
whever I have a question to ask, someone asks it before I do! Also many
questions are asked and answered before you even know you're gunna as that
question. It makes me wonder sometimes.
Good luck and hope to hear back from ya!
Shawn
----- Original Message -----
From: <pietlist(at)juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Morning yall!
>
> I have been wanting to build a Pietenpaul for a long time. I live in
> Central Mississippi and I am married to a beautiful lady from the
> Philippines and we have a 7 yr old son. Anyone in our area building
> please write us back n let us know where you live.
>
> Thanks
> Steve
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Don't stop building......really |
Builders !!!!
After 5 mos. of winter here in Ohio the groundhog pilot came out of
his hole and dusted off the Pietenpol. He says: don't stop building if
you are in the process......even if you do just one thing every day or other
day, don't quit. Like working out- once you quit it's tough to start again.
It's really a joy to fly. Just the neatest homebuilt out there. (talk about
prejudice:) Turnbuckles cost a lot, so does AN hardware, engines are
not cheap, but, but, but it's ALL worth it IF you finish it and fly it.
Don't sell your project- finish it and fly it !!!! I don't care if you
are 20 or
78 years old. This plane will make you forget
about all the toils and tribulations of building it, AND other troubles
that we
all have day in and day out.
Just you and the open cockpit wind- farm fields below you, kids looking in
your cockpit at fly-ins, guys with Glassairs saying how great it must be to
fly "one of these". Stick with it. Do it right. Keep at it. If you
don't finish it
you'll always regret it. Especially when someone else finishes it and you see
it being flown, and not by you.
Thanks....I feel better now:)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
05/07/2001 02:14:10 PM
Hi Corky,
My 2 cents worth re floatation:
Remember that not all of the material that goes into your Piet is
negatively bouyant (i.e. sinks rather than floats). Some of it is either
neutral or positively bouyant (i.e. floats). So you only need enough
floatation to overcome the effect of the negatively & neutrally bouyant
materials.
The other thing to beware of is that some 'foam' packing peanuts (if you
choose to use them) are actually made out of CORN STARCH. They turn to mush
when wet. You can usually tell them from the real foam kind, they look like
a white Cheese Doodle. The foolproof test is to try eating one - the
styrofoam ones don't melt in your mouth. The only drawback to this is that
the corn starch ones sure don't TASTE like a Cheese Doodle.
If you use the foam peanuts, pack them loosely into plastic trash bags
before you put them in the wings - you'll gain a little more bouyant air &
more importantly, the peanuts will stay put (believe me, they'll go
anywhere positive air pressure can push them).
Good luck!
Kip Gardner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
>
>Rodger,
>I've got this beautiful alum tank that rides forward of the passenger. Joe C
>said it holds 16+ gal and if Joe C says it , it will. I will need 30 gals to
>get where I plan to go.
>Corky, you know where.
Corky- I've got an aluminum main tank behind the firewall that holds 17
gallons.
I've been to Oshkosh twice and never needed more fuel than that ever.
The longest leg I've ever flown was 2 hours 20 minutes with one in-flight
pee stop.
(don't ask.....:)) Why don't you use that nice center section for your
sleeping bag,
pillow, tie down stakes and ropes, extra oil, rags, tent, and shrimp ?)
For what it's worth,
Mike C. (in Ohio)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
> If you are planning a long trip. may I suggest a video by Duane Cole
>called Pilotage. A lot of real common sense well explained.
>John- Two trips to Oshkosh with sectional charts, a clock, and compass.
No gps, no radio, no starter, electrical system. Worked great. Just keep
an eye on the weather. It would be fun to have all those goodies, but it
still
can be done- and safely. Actually the no-radio approach to Oshkosh is super.
Just a ton less traffic than the radio approaches.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Morning yall! |
In a message dated 05/07/2001 9:54:53 AM Central Daylight Time,
pietlist(at)juno.com writes:
<< nyone in our area building
please write us back n let us know where you live.
Thanks
Steve >>
Welcome to the gang Steve. S.E. 'Bama is a bit of a haul, but , who
knows...you might get over this way. I'm in final painting on an
'A' powered Piet. Be happy to talk to you on your direct 'E' number if you
just want to chat, or on the list if you need help from the other guys. Don
Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
To all those in Texas and neighboring states.......
The weather is great and while it is still cool (under 100 degrees)
it is time to think about a good old Texas Piet - GN-1 fly in.
I don't mind helping put it together. The first year can be simple.
We need to put together a list of who would like to attend. If
they are going to fly in and if so what kind of plane. From the
above information we can determine a geographical area of the
state to hold the fly in. Heck, you really can't have a social event
in Texas without some kind of a barb-que cookout and something
to wash it down.
If there are guys and ladies out there who are interested in
participating, please let me know and we will get started on it.
Please send your response and/or questions to:
Mike King
4119 Kentshire Lane
Dallas, Texas
214 905-9299
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: TEXAS FLY IN |
Sounds good from NW La. I think you can get Joe Krez from Houston to do the
cooking. My bride and I may have to walk but you can count on us and if you
need a little $ let me know. I'll try to bring Jim Cooper and Edwin Johnson
along.
Corky, grounded in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TEXAS FLY IN |
Corky,
Sounds good. You are the first on the list.
Thanks.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: TEXAS FLY IN
>
> Sounds good from NW La. I think you can get Joe Krez from Houston to do
the
> cooking. My bride and I may have to walk but you can count on us and if
you
> need a little $ let me know. I'll try to bring Jim Cooper and Edwin
Johnson
> along.
> Corky, grounded in La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | elevator construction |
Hey guys,
I've got a question regarding elevator construction. The cap strips are
3/16" thick and the gussets are made from 1/8" ply, but the trailing edge
has shoulders of only 1/16" (according to the 1933 plans). What's the best
way to handle these differences? I have a couple of ideas but I might be
missing something obvious or easy.
Keep it rolling Corky!
Jeff in green north Texas
disappointed with last night's Leaf game
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: elevator construction |
In a message dated 5/8/01 9:44:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com writes:
> I've got a question regarding elevator construction. The cap strips are
> 3/16" thick and the gussets are made from 1/8" ply, but the trailing edge
> has shoulders of only 1/16" (according to the 1933 plans). What's the best
> way to handle these differences? I have a couple of ideas but I might be
> missing something obvious or easy.
> Keep it rolling Corky!
>
Jeff,
I do a nice blend in that area so the fabric will lay smoothly.
Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Don't stop building......really |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Don't stop building......really
>
> Builders !!!!
>
> After 5 mos. of winter here in Ohio the groundhog pilot came out of
> his hole and dusted off the Pietenpol. He says: don't stop building if
> you are in the process......even if you do just one thing every day or
other
> day, don't quit. Like working out- once you quit it's tough to start
again.
> It's really a joy to fly. Just the neatest homebuilt out there. (talk
about
> prejudice:) Turnbuckles cost a lot, so does AN hardware, engines are
> not cheap, but, but, but it's ALL worth it IF you finish it and fly it.
> Don't sell your project- finish it and fly it !!!! I don't care if you
> are 20 or
> 78 years old. This plane will make you forget
> about all the toils and tribulations of building it, AND other troubles
> that we
> all have day in and day out.
> Just you and the open cockpit wind- farm fields below you, kids looking
in
> your cockpit at fly-ins, guys with Glassairs saying how great it must be
to
> fly "one of these". Stick with it. Do it right. Keep at it. If you
> don't finish it
> you'll always regret it. Especially when someone else finishes it and you
see
> it being flown, and not by you.
>
> Thanks....I feel better now:)
>
> Mike C.
>
> Mike,
Thanks for your encouraging words, I need them - it has been a long 5 year
grind. Took some time out for a heart by pass operation though. I am just
finishing up now with the cowlings, still have to make the lift struts and a
prop and install the windshields. Engine (Subaru, EA 82 turbo) runs fine.
Don't yet know how the braking system restaint will work out. Pleased that
yours works well. Have the picture of your second flight on the wall of my
shop for inspiration.
Cheers, John Dilatush - Salida Colorado
dilatush(at)amigo.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Maybe a little help |
Pietenpolers,
I had a little problem resolved today and the experience surrounding it may
be worth telling and worth your time reading. If you are one of those few who
know it ALL please use your delete key NOW.
Last spring after buying my plans from Don and ordering my 2 X 6s for lumber
I contacted the FAA office in Baton Rouge for their procedures of checks and
inspections as I presumed they were different from those I had used when
building a Mini Plane in the late 50s. They informed me that they no longer
scheduled inspections the old way and that I would need to contact a DAR for
that service. I contacted the nearest DAR by phone and was advised he would
be in touch. Several months after NO TOUCH I went to his place of business,
met him, discussed my Piet,which he had never heard of, and of course his
prices for his sacrifices of inspections. Needless to say I was IMPRESSED but
not the way he intended it to be. Around the second week of Sept as I was
writing a check to our uncle for a tax estimate it hit me. WHY should I pay
someone outside for services I pay taxes for within the FAA system. I called
Baton Rouge and talked with Lisa. She could not have been nicer, even was
familiar with a Pietenpol. I told her my thinking and she put me through to a
field man. He said he would be glad to inspect my bird, just give him about a
month lead time. Boy I felt good. Things have been relaxed along that line
until I talked with several builders recently on the subject of a builders
log. I never heard of such a thing but as one builder suggested we had better
begin some creative writing. Today I decided to call my man in Baton Rouge
and feel him out on the subject. Yes, as you can guess, he is gone. I was
refered to another agent who listened patiently and seemed somewhat
sympathetic. He told me he would ask his supervisor if he could be assigned
to my project and that I would here from him in the near future. I felt good
again. One hour later my bride called me to the phone from the yard. It was
Jim at the FAA office in Baton Rouge. His supervisor had assigned to my
plane. The inspector in Sep had told me that he only wanted to see it when it
was ready for flight with cowl off and inspection plates removed. I asked Jim
about this and he wants to see it naked before covering but complete and
again before flight. He is not familiar with the Piet so I promised him a set
of plans and pictures for him to read and see. Boy, I'm happy again.
These experiences show that the FAA has no standard procedure of inspections.
Each inspector seems to set his own procedures. Gary, he does want a
chronological log. Can be tied in with photos. He was particularly positive
that I prove the 51% rule. This may have wasted a lot of your time for having
read it but it might help several of you who may have been in the FAA dark as
I was and am. Sooooo take it and go.
Corky in happyland.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Maybe a little help |
Corky,
Thanks for the heads-up, Corky, that was not wasted time at all! Of all
the building matters that come up, the documentation area seems to be the
least discussed. I've been just building away assuming that when the time
comes for the feds to bless my ship, that I'll have figured it out by then,
and that good things will happen.
I haven't been diligent in my builders log, but I have taken scads of
pictures, I should be able to caption those, and even estimate time and
construct a passable log. It's pretty funny hearing the 51% rule brought up
in reference to a Piet. Heck, I think it's more like the 200% rule. I'll
have built two before I finish the one!
Thanks again,
Gary
Busily writing notes in TX....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JOEL CARROLL <drcarroll_2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Maybe a little help |
hello all
PLEASE get all your documentation in order. use your
computer to record it all. i have a friend who built a
zenith, finished it completely, never inquired about
inspections. when the inspector came, he wouldn't sign
off on it. he now has a 30k model airplane. good luck
to all.
--- Gary Meadows wrote:
>
>
> Corky,
>
> Thanks for the heads-up, Corky, that was not
> wasted time at all! Of all
> the building matters that come up, the documentation
> area seems to be the
> least discussed. I've been just building away
> assuming that when the time
> comes for the feds to bless my ship, that I'll have
> figured it out by then,
> and that good things will happen.
>
> I haven't been diligent in my builders log, but I
> have taken scads of
> pictures, I should be able to caption those, and
> even estimate time and
> construct a passable log. It's pretty funny hearing
> the 51% rule brought up
> in reference to a Piet. Heck, I think it's more like
> the 200% rule. I'll
> have built two before I finish the one!
>
> Thanks again,
> Gary
> Busily writing notes in TX....
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neal Hinson" <nhh76(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | direct drive soob |
has anyone ever used a direct drive soob for thier piet?
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: building the fuselage
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 21:01:32 EDT
-- Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Jeff,
Guess I should have been eating like a yankee instead of like a king in La.
Isabelle, my bride, from Mattoon, Ill has taken over the family food
planning. No more homemade bread, butter, bacon, pork sausage, eggs, homo
milk, bisquits w/ real butter, syrup, waffles, hot cakes. Tonight we did have
a southern delight, black eyed peas. Tomorrow I'll try to get her to buy me
some turnip and mustard greens but no sow-belly for seasoning. Fraid it's
going to be slim pickins down south. Probably try to feed me those yankee
delights such as bread and rice puddings, rubbards or whatever those people
eat. Can you imagine I'll have no more rice and gravy, shrimp creole,
crawfish bisque. HORROWS
Corky in pure food La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Maybe a little help |
I would have my friend call Earl Lawrence EAA VP of Government Programs. He
and I just had this conversation less than 30 minutes ago. The inspector
must issue airworthiness. He may make the testing so difficult that one can
not fly. Call Earl at 888-EAA-INFO extension 6522 and ask for his help if
your friend is an EAA member.
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOEL CARROLL" <drcarroll_2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Maybe a little help
hello all
PLEASE get all your documentation in order. use your
computer to record it all. i have a friend who built a
zenith, finished it completely, never inquired about
inspections. when the inspector came, he wouldn't sign
off on it. he now has a 30k model airplane. good luck
to all.
--- Gary Meadows wrote:
>
>
> Corky,
>
> Thanks for the heads-up, Corky, that was not
> wasted time at all! Of all
> the building matters that come up, the documentation
> area seems to be the
> least discussed. I've been just building away
> assuming that when the time
> comes for the feds to bless my ship, that I'll have
> figured it out by then,
> and that good things will happen.
>
> I haven't been diligent in my builders log, but I
> have taken scads of
> pictures, I should be able to caption those, and
> even estimate time and
> construct a passable log. It's pretty funny hearing
> the 51% rule brought up
> in reference to a Piet. Heck, I think it's more like
> the 200% rule. I'll
> have built two before I finish the one!
>
> Thanks again,
> Gary
> Busily writing notes in TX....
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
| Subject: | Re: Maybe a little help |
05/08/2001 05:47:32 PM
Corky, et al,
If I remember correctly, there are good articles covering documentation
issues and dealing with DAR's &/or FAA reps. in the member's section of the
EAA web site. I remember reading somewhere that hanging on to things like
the invoices for raw materials is useful and one guy I talked to said that
documentation can be as simple as keeping a looseleaf notebook where you
write in things like:
'mm/dd/yy: Worked 2 hrs. building wing ribs.'
If you have pictures I imagine you could cook up the written documentation
to go with it.
I agree with Gary, invoking the 51% rule for a plans-built aircraft is a
little silly, but wasn't Corky spouting off about those 'WYB's" just the
other day? Gotta let those boys earn their pay somehow :).
I know it's a pain, but I'm a scientist, I have to document EVERYTHING.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maybe a little help |
In a message dated 05/08/2001 3:15:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
<< Boy, I'm happy again.
These experiences show that the FAA has no standard procedure of
inspections.
Each inspector seems to set his own procedures. Gary, he does want a
chronological log. Can be tied in with photos. He was particularly positive
that I prove the 51% rule. This may have wasted a lot of your time for
having
read it but it might help several of you who may have been in the FAA dark
as
I was and am. Sooooo take it and go.
Corky in happyland. >>
I'm glad you relayed this. I've heard there was a "covering" off inspection
as well as the final inspection. Also, I learned from reading and hearing
from Steve Eldredge that if you are using the NX numbering on the tail, you
DO NOT need the 2" high EXPERIMENTAL lettering on the side. The "X" denotes
Experimental !. Lots of other "funny" rules and regs to follow too.
Keep building - I can't wait to see your finished plane FLY !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Maybe a little help |
I can't wait either cause I don't have a clue as to how much time I have
left. I live everyday by the 7th cardinal principal of education, " the
worthy use of leisure time"
Corky, fixing he and his bride some fresh La spec trout almondine tonite.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: TEXAS FLY IN |
Mike,
Deal me in.
Tom Travis
13532 Braemar Drive
Dallas, Texas 75234
972-241-8102
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Maybe a little help |
Hey all;
The Feds publish an Advisory Circular, which can be found at
http://av-info.faa.gov/dst/amateur/ac20-27d.pdf
This will tell you everything you did not want to know about certifying
homebuilts. When a local inspector from the FAA office comes out, more than
likely, this is what he will use for guidance. As a general rule, most Feds
don't want to bother with certifying homebuilts, because they are already
busy, usaully don't have the background and some are just plain scared of
the liability.
When a buddy of mine was ready to get his RV-4 inspected, he called several
DAR's and the only one who would do it was 120 miles away in Tucson. He
wanted 300 dead presidents a day, plus mileage and meals. I called the local
office where I had a friend (who happened to be the FAA inspector assigned
to the small airline I worked at) and he came out, gave the plane a once
over with his one good eye, looked at the weight and balance, asked if there
was a builders log (but did not look at it), pulled out a 50's era
typewriter and typed up a Certificate of Airworthiness. On the other hand, I
had another buddy who had a DAR come out, charge him 400 bucks and just
raped the whole plane. It took my freind 3 weeks to clean everything up and
get his C of A.
The bottom line is this....the FAA is charged with the responsibility for
issuing C of A's and they try to pawn it off on the DAR's. Once in a while
you will find a good one in the bunch, other times you gotta keep on picking
through the bunch. But the Advisory Circular is what will be used in a court
of law, which is what's scarey.
Chris House
Previous GN-1 builder, presently a Piet builder and still smilin' from ear
ta ear cause I just flew my new 1939 cabin Waco from Albany, NY to Phoenix,
AZ....115 kts and 115 ft AGL, no radios, no transponder, windows down, teeth
catchin bugs.... :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Maybe a little help |
Sorry, folks....I forgot to include this link....a must for all homebuilders
http://av-info.faa.gov/dst/amateur/
Chris House
Ribs in Jigs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Soob direct drive. |
| From: | pietlist(at)juno.com |
Somebody asked about using the ea81 Soob engine in direct drive. Can it
be done??
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesJboyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Don't stop building......really |
In a message dated 5/7/2001 11:06:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes:
> After 5 mos. of winter here in Ohio the groundhog pilot came out of
> his hole and dusted off the Pietenpol.
Hi Mike,
Wanted to ask you where you had your gas tank made? How muchj did it cost? I
believe you said it was of aluminium as well. Do you have any sketches of it
as to dimensions and shape?
I have my fuselage done to point where I have to add things like the tank,
controls, and fittings before I close up the sides with the sheeting (I'm not
flexible enough to do all that with the side sheeting on).
PS I got your video some months ago from you and have constantly used it as
both a motivator and a how did he do that anyway?
Thanks,
Jim Boyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Any EAA chapter members on linde? I find my self in a leadership role in a new
chapter at Crystal Airport Minneapolis, MN. We have 15 members signed up and
I need a bit of advice. Mainly, what are some of the things that chapters do
to keep meetings interesting and member coming back?
So far we have had some members bring over their homebuilts for a look - see. and
next month I am planning a short hop to another airport for coffee.
We dont have a hangar yet, meetings are at one members hangar.
Your experience would be appreciated.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maybe a little help |
Chris,
Ooooh, boy, do you know how to hurt somebody.
But it's a tough job.... somebody's got to do it.
Rodger
still building
----- Original Message -----
From: Ignitor <ignitor(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Maybe a little help
>
> Hey all;...................
..........
> Chris House
> Previous GN-1 builder, presently a Piet builder and still smilin' from ear
> ta ear cause I just flew my new 1939 cabin Waco from Albany, NY to
Phoenix,
> AZ....115 kts and 115 ft AGL, no radios, no transponder, windows down,
teeth
> catchin bugs.... :)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: elevator construction |
| From: | Chris Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
Just sand them down until they are evenly tapered into the trailing edge.
To expand on this, I didn't think there was enough extra wood to make the
profiles shown on the plans, i.e. leading edge and trailing edge, but
after I got every thing sanded it actually worked out fine. Looks good
to.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Maybe a little help |
Chris,
Thanks for the helpful links - I'll print those off asap. The good news is
that I have kept every receipt, and I have something like 60-70 digital
photos worth of documentation so far. I have a log that's a little out of
date, but that will change....
Thanks,
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Horizontal Stabilizer |
I have just laid up my horizontal stabilizer in the jig and was measuring
out where the elevator hinges would attach when I find that the diagonal
braces end up just where the outside hinges should go (4" from the end). I
can get one machine screw thru the beam, but the outer one should go where
the brace ends. I have some 1 3/4" stainless wood screws that I was thinking
of screwing thru the beam and brace with a bit of help from T88 epoxy. Is
this an acceptable practice, or is there another way of fixing the outer
hinge?
Rod W.
in sunny West Aussie.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Maybe a little help |
... Heck, I think it's more like the 200% rule. I'll
have built two before I finish the one!
Boy, you've got that right, Gary. I'm convinced that I could build a second
Pietenpol in half the time at 2/3 the cost of this first one.
I've been pretty diligent about my builder's log, but most of the photos
I've taken are digital. I hope the feds will accept those (they might be
better - they've got a date stamp). I kept the log just for my own
amusement, to see how much time I actually took (about 1100 hours so far,
with the wings done, the tail done and the fuselage about half complete). I
didn't know I would need it for documentation.
Jack Phillips
Pietenpol NX899JP (I did reserve my N-Number, at least)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pietlist(at)juno.com |
Can the Subaru EA-81 be used in direct drive??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: EAA chapters |
In a message dated 05/08/2001 9:33:25 PM Central Daylight Time,
horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:
<< what are some of the things that chapters do to keep meetings interesting
and member coming back?
>>
Hi Richard, A common concern for all but the most active chapters. I'm sure
you will get lots of suggestions. Our chapter does not have a regular meeting
place although it's been going for 30 years. The members seem quite content
to meet at different member's homes each month to view their projects, have
construction, weight and balance demonstrations...such as that. This is
balanced by field trips and fly-ins. Good luck
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator construction |
I made notches in the trailing edge to accept the capstrips. After they were glued
in place they were sanded fair with the trailing edge. The corners were also
sanded smooth.
Greg Cardinal
>>> "Jeff Hill" 05/08 10:41 AM >>>
Hey guys,
I've got a question regarding elevator construction. The cap strips are
3/16" thick and the gussets are made from 1/8" ply, but the trailing edge
has shoulders of only 1/16" (according to the 1933 plans). What's the best
way to handle these differences? I have a couple of ideas but I might be
missing something obvious or easy.
Keep it rolling Corky!
Jeff in green north Texas
disappointed with last night's Leaf game
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mckellars" <mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EA-81 subaru |
----- Original Message -----
From: <pietlist(at)juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: EA-81 subaru
>
> Can the Subaru EA-81 be used in direct drive??
>
> Yes, I went to see one about 6 weeks ago in Oklahoma. The Piet was the
long fuse version and the owner weighed 215 lbs.The plane took off quickly
and climbed at least 500fpm. The owner was very happy with the performance
of the direct drive EA81. It cruises at about 75mph and 2800-3000 rpm.
Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "james cooper" <blugoos1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Piet-GN-1 Fly-in |
Mike King: My name is Jim Cooper from Lafayette, LA, and am interested
in your work on a possible fly-in. As a former Yankee, I'll do my best
to help Corky represent the Great State of Louisiana. I'm working on a
GN-1, but it won't be ready to fly for ay least a couple of years, if
ever.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fishin" <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EAA chapters |
I belong to 2 chapters, 414 & 217. some of the things we enjoy are;
enviting guest speakers
showing aviation related videos
fly-outs to air museums
young eagle flying
visiting other members projects
visiting Delta Hawk to see the prototype desiel aircraft engine
planning the annual 2 day picnic fly-in
cook-out food sales at local flying events (chapter fund raiser)
flying to fly-in breakfasts
these are some of our activities to give you ideas
regards
JoeC Zion, IL
N99621
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Date: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 7:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: EAA chapters
>
>Any EAA chapter members on linde? I find my self in a leadership role in a
new chapter at Crystal Airport Minneapolis, MN. We have 15 members signed
up and I need a bit of advice. Mainly, what are some of the things that
chapters do to keep meetings interesting and member coming back?
>So far we have had some members bring over their homebuilts for a look -
see. and next month I am planning a short hop to another airport for coffee.
>We dont have a hangar yet, meetings are at one members hangar.
>
>Your experience would be appreciated.
>Dick
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EA-81 Subaru |
| From: | pietlist(at)juno.com |
Mark:
Can you get me some info on the prop for this engine setup?? What kind
of carb did he use.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edwin Johnson <elj(at)shreve.net> |
Sounds good to me!
>To all those in Texas and neighboring states.......
>The weather is great and while it is still cool (under 100 degrees)
>it is time to think about a good old Texas Piet - GN-1 fly in.
...Edwin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Edwin Johnson ....... elj(at)shreve.net ~
~ http://www.shreve.net/~elj ~
~ ~
~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the ~
~ earth with your eyes turned skyward, ~
~ for there you have been, there you long ~
~ to return." -- da Vinci ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Maybe a little help |
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Maybe a little help
>
> Pietenpolers,
> I had a little problem resolved today and the experience surrounding it
may
> be worth telling and worth your time reading. If you are one of those few
who
> know it ALL please use your delete key NOW.
> Last spring after buying my plans from Don and ordering my 2 X 6s for
lumber
> I contacted the FAA office in Baton Rouge for their procedures of checks
and
> inspections as I presumed they were different from those I had used when
> building a Mini Plane in the late 50s. They informed me that they no
longer
> scheduled inspections the old way and that I would need to contact a DAR
for
> that service. I contacted the nearest DAR by phone and was advised he
would
> be in touch. Several months after NO TOUCH I went to his place of
business,
> met him, discussed my Piet,which he had never heard of, and of course his
> prices for his sacrifices of inspections. Needless to say I was IMPRESSED
but
> not the way he intended it to be. Around the second week of Sept as I was
> writing a check to our uncle for a tax estimate it hit me. WHY should I
pay
> someone outside for services I pay taxes for within the FAA system. I
called
> Baton Rouge and talked with Lisa. She could not have been nicer, even was
> familiar with a Pietenpol. I told her my thinking and she put me through
to a
> field man. He said he would be glad to inspect my bird, just give him
about a
> month lead time. Boy I felt good. Things have been relaxed along that line
> until I talked with several builders recently on the subject of a builders
> log. I never heard of such a thing but as one builder suggested we had
better
> begin some creative writing. Today I decided to call my man in Baton Rouge
> and feel him out on the subject. Yes, as you can guess, he is gone. I was
> refered to another agent who listened patiently and seemed somewhat
> sympathetic. He told me he would ask his supervisor if he could be
assigned
> to my project and that I would here from him in the near future. I felt
good
> again. One hour later my bride called me to the phone from the yard. It
was
> Jim at the FAA office in Baton Rouge. His supervisor had assigned to my
> plane. The inspector in Sep had told me that he only wanted to see it when
it
> was ready for flight with cowl off and inspection plates removed. I asked
Jim
> about this and he wants to see it naked before covering but complete and
> again before flight. He is not familiar with the Piet so I promised him a
set
> of plans and pictures for him to read and see. Boy, I'm happy again.
> These experiences show that the FAA has no standard procedure of
inspections.
> Each inspector seems to set his own procedures. Gary, he does want a
> chronological log. Can be tied in with photos. He was particularly
positive
> that I prove the 51% rule. This may have wasted a lot of your time for
having
> read it but it might help several of you who may have been in the FAA dark
as
> I was and am. Sooooo take it and go.
> Corky in happyland.
Corky,
Your experiences with the Foolish Aero Administration are not unique, I have
had the same run around for the past year or more.
A friend of mine, who is an A&P with an AI designation, finished a Murphy
Rebel (he has also built a RV6) went through the same drill with them. He
even applied for a DAR designation and was told "not needed, we have enough
DARs' already". In total frustration he even offered to put his plane on a
trailer, tow it to their parking lot in Denver, reassemble the plane and
then they would only have to step out of their office to run the inspection!
He was turned down! Told to go find a DAR.
John Dilatush, Salida CO
dilatush(at)amigo.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer |
Hi Rod,
I'm not sure about your particular hinge location, we all build a little
differently, but I plan to use one of the single-eared nutplates for that
outer nut. I'm thinking I'll rivet the nutplate to a longer piece of
aluminum, and use that to anchor to the wood.
I've also thought about just moving the whole hinge inward an inch or two
to provide clearance. I'd like that hinge as far out as possible, but I
don't think an inch or two is gonna make or break it!! Those are just a
couple of thoughts.
I saved all that hard work and just went to the fuselage.... I've got
several cleanup jobs to do like that before the tailfeathers are fully
finished!
Good luck!
Gary Meadows
Spring, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer |
In a message dated 05/09/2001 6:10:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rodwooller(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< I have just laid up my horizontal stabilizer in the jig and was measuring
out where the elevator hinges would attach when I find that the diagonal
braces end up just where the outside hinges should go (4" from the end). I
can get one machine screw thru the beam, but the outer one should go where
the brace ends. I have some 1 3/4" stainless wood screws that I was thinking
of screwing thru the beam and brace with a bit of help from T88 epoxy. Is
this an acceptable practice, or is there another way of fixing the outer
hinge?
Rod W.
in sunny West Aussie.
>>
Take a look at Mike Cuy's picture site:
http://aircamper.no-ip.com/acimg
or this one of Horizontal Stab:
http://aircamper.no-ip.com/acimg/em-horiz1.jpg
LOTS of good construction pictures of various airplanes.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EAA chapters |
Richard,
There are several members of Chapter 25 on this list. We are in the South metro
Minneapolis / Lakeville / Eden Prairie area.
Project visits are always good, speakers are good - especially those giving working
demo's of building techniques. Lots of aviation museums in the Twin Cities
will open there doors for private meetings.
Call me anytime.
Greg Cardinal
612 673-7540 work
612 721-6235 home
>>> Richard Navratil 05/08 8:25 PM >>>
Any EAA chapter members on linde? I find my self in a leadership role in a new
chapter at Crystal Airport Minneapolis, MN. We have 15 members signed up and
I need a bit of advice. Mainly, what are some of the things that chapters do
to keep meetings interesting and member coming back?
So far we have had some members bring over their homebuilts for a look - see. and
next month I am planning a short hop to another airport for coffee.
We dont have a hangar yet, meetings are at one members hangar.
Your experience would be appreciated.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TEXAS FLY IN |
Tom,
You are in. By the way, I just called you home
and left a voice message. I live in far north Dallas
between Frankford and Rosemead.
I keep my GN-1 at O'Brien's near Waxahachie.
Give me a call when you can. 214 905-9299.
Thanks.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: <TomTravis(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: TEXAS FLY IN
>
> Mike,
>
> Deal me in.
>
> Tom Travis
> 13532 Braemar Drive
> Dallas, Texas 75234
> 972-241-8102
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Maybe a little help |
Hi Joel,
What type of Zenith is it? He can get paperwork
straight? Where is he located?
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- JOEL CARROLL wrote:
>
>
> hello all
>
> PLEASE get all your documentation in order. use your
> computer to record it all. i have a friend who built
> a
> zenith, finished it completely, never inquired about
> inspections. when the inspector came, he wouldn't
> sign
> off on it. he now has a 30k model airplane. good
> luck
> to all.
>
>
> --- Gary Meadows wrote:
> Meadows"
> >
> >
> > Corky,
> >
> > Thanks for the heads-up, Corky, that was not
> > wasted time at all! Of all
> > the building matters that come up, the
> documentation
> > area seems to be the
> > least discussed. I've been just building away
> > assuming that when the time
> > comes for the feds to bless my ship, that I'll
> have
> > figured it out by then,
> > and that good things will happen.
> >
> > I haven't been diligent in my builders log, but
> I
> > have taken scads of
> > pictures, I should be able to caption those, and
> > even estimate time and
> > construct a passable log. It's pretty funny
> hearing
> > the 51% rule brought up
> > in reference to a Piet. Heck, I think it's more
> like
> > the 200% rule. I'll
> > have built two before I finish the one!
> >
> > Thanks again,
> > Gary
> > Busily writing notes in TX....
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great
> prices
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | FAA Highway Robery |
Thanks Chris House for some excellent info on homebuilt
certification. And I loved Gary M's 200% rule. How true !
I am now friends with the manager here of the Cleveland FAA
MIDO office. He is one of the few pilot/A&P, and taildragger owners
who is an inspector out there anymore.
There is MIDO and FSDO. MIDO does homebuilt
inspections. Manufacturing Inspection District Office they call it.
They also inspect factories that produce FAA/PMA parts for everything from
Cessnas to 747's.
According to this fellow, homebuilts inspections are at the bottom
of their priority list so they delegate these DAR guys to take up the
slack. (Designated Airworhtiness Representative.) Just because
John Dilatush lives in a gorgeous remote part of Colorado does not
mean he should have to pay a DAR between $200 and $900 to sign
off his plane when others can get it done "if the office so chooses".....or
if they happen to have an extra inspector on hand or live close to the
FAA office. The FAA is so
wishy-washy on this issue it gives me fits. Every FAA and DAR inspector
are not alike. Some want builder records, some could care less.....some
just want your $$$ and to get outta there. Some will take 8 hours to
inspect. Some do not even know what the approved ways to safety
wire are......some nit-pick on things that are required for CERTIFIED factory
built planes.....and don't know the rules about homebuilts. Some don't even
know if your weight and balance calculations are right. Some are GREAT too.
But this inconsistent treatment of who gets a free (yeah right.....free my
wallet.)
inspection and who has to pay a DAR is a crime.
Also.......even with my paperwork filled out to the T....with every,
every, I mean
every detail perfect and hand-delivered to the FAA manager it still took
weeks for
them to come out. Get on that website that Chris mentioned. Find the
nearest
FAA MIDO office near you and BADGER them until they cannot stand you anymore
until they agree to come out. You pay the same taxes as the next guy to
have these
Federal servants serve us.
The real kick in the rear is that according to my friend here in town
that they will
be totally phasing out doing any sort of homebuilt inspections whatsoever
in the next
year or so. What a joke. He says it's beyond the local office control
though and that
this is a bugetary thing from the top. Like the FAA's budget is
hurting. What a joke.
Thanks......I feel better.
Go gettum, Corky.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAA Highway Robery |
Gee Mike,
Ahh feel yore pain..... A nail hit squarely upon the head!! If we could
only do that with some members of the FAA!! Anyway, I thought they had this
shiney new budget, with lots of money that WE'VE paid in over the years!
Well, if the Feds can't/won't handle us, and since aircraft homebuilding
is absolutely mushrooming, then we should be allowed to become a
self-policing fraternity like Amateur Radio is. Volunteers there do the
actual testing, and it comes at a very cheap price. They could put in some
regulations eliminating legal liability for the inspection, and then the
inspectors wouldn't have it hanging out there. The EAA could become the
governing body over all this, do a better job and safety would improve at a
greatly reduced cost. Things usually improve when the Feds aren't involved.
If hams can do it, we could too!
Yeah, I know someone is gonna whine about airplanes aren't radios they're
more dangerous and people could die. But the concept could be the same.
Besides, in the end, safety is really up to each individual builder, not the
Feds. They won't die if you crash.
Mike, way to go, maybe we need to stir up some discontent on the other
groups as well!
Gary Meadows
Building and logging the time in Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FAA Highway Robery |
Now Boys,
I've been known to throw a few negatives in the direction of Washington,
HOWEVER,since yesterday and talking with my new found friend Jim in Baton
Rouge who will do my inspections PLEASE get off the Feds a-- UNTIL I get in
the air. Bet none of you would ever dream of something like that coming from
Corky in beautiful federally regulated La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kgardner(at)odu.edu |
| Subject: | Re: FAA Highway Robery |
05/09/2001 05:24:24 PM
Gary,
I certainly agree that volunteer, EAA-affilitaed inspectors would be a good
way to get this whole issue resolved in a way that would both promote
safety and make life easier for homebuilders. People have died because
lawyers screwed up, but you don't hear about a Federal Lawyer-Policing
agency doing anything - they police themselves through their Bar
Associations (now THERE's a scary thought)! Same goes for a whole host of
professional and recreational groups.
Maybe we need to have some agitation to get this issue tackled along with
the Sport-Pilot regulations - in my mind the two sort of go together.
Given that FAA apparently doesn't really care a rats-ass about doing their
job when it comes to homebuilts, let's turn it over to an organization that
DOES care! Heck, I'd even be willing to reimburse a volunteer for
out-of-pocket expenses if it meant that someone who knew and cared about
what I was doing inspected & signed off my work.
Sounds like an issue to bring up with the appropriate EAA reps to me.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jared wilkinson <jared_wilkinson(at)yahoo.com> |
"Corky in beautiful federally regulated La"
Once again, the Corkmeister has brought a chuckle to
my dull afternoon.
Thanks, Corky
Jared in uncharacteristically nice weather in Chicago
because I'm here for some Training for the week.
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol-list FAA Highway Robbery |
Fellow Piet Builders;
As a follow up to my earlier E-Mail where I complained about the lack of
any FAA cooperation in getting my Piet inspected when done, I also
contacted EAA headquarters about the problem.
After talking to one fellow on the phone, and sending him copies of all
of my correspondence with the FAA and my Federal Senator and
Representative, and their replies and letters to the FAA, I waited more
than 30 days and got no reply! I then wrote a nasty letter to Paul P.
at the EAA and then he told me the package I had sent evidently got
lost. I started again with my tale of woe. Paul P. said that they were
aware of the problem and were working on it. I wrote a long letter
proposing that the FAA give up on inspections altogether and appoint
qualified homebuilders to be special inspectors (not DARs') for
homebuilt aircraft only. These special inspectors, maybe EAA Tech
Councilors, should have an A&P and have built planes themselves, after
all, who would be more qualified than one who has taken an airplane from
inception to a finished product? Most of the DARs' seem unable to
understand our unique problems and have only had experience with
certified aircraft. In fact, out of the nine DARs' I called for a quote
to come up and do an inspection, only four were willing to do so because
it concerned a homebuilt aircraft. And the quotes I got ranged from
$400 to $900 plus expenses! I know we are over 150 miles from Denver,
but it sure is a nice drive.
The EAA is evidently aware of the problem and has proposed a similar
solution to the FAA, however, I feel that it is not a particularly high
priority with them either and they are not pushing the Foolish Aero
Administration very hard. A suggestion like this would have the effect
of better service (inspectors would come from our own local chapters in
many cases) and I am sure that costs would be more reasonable because of
greater competition between inspectors.
The last correspondence that I had from the EAA was from the Executive
VP, Robert T. Warner. His letter was dated Oct 31, 2000 and I have
heard nothing since. I would suggest that we should send to his
attention E-Mails about our concerns. I believe the address is
www.eaa.org . They told me that they were working with the FAA on the
problem, but nothing seems to be happening . A push might be in order!
Cheers, John Dilatush,
Blunder Engineering - Salida Colorado
dilatush(at)amigo.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FAA Highway Robery |
----- Original Message -----
From: <kgardner(at)odu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FAA Highway Robery
>
>
> Gary,
>
> I certainly agree that volunteer, EAA-affilitaed inspectors would be a
good
> way to get this whole issue resolved in a way that would both promote
> safety and make life easier for homebuilders. People have died because
> lawyers screwed up, but you don't hear about a Federal Lawyer-Policing
> agency doing anything - they police themselves through their Bar
> Associations (now THERE's a scary thought)! Same goes for a whole host of
> professional and recreational groups.
>
> Maybe we need to have some agitation to get this issue tackled along with
> the Sport-Pilot regulations - in my mind the two sort of go together.
>
> Given that FAA apparently doesn't really care a rats-ass about doing their
> job when it comes to homebuilts, let's turn it over to an organization
that
> DOES care! Heck, I'd even be willing to reimburse a volunteer for
> out-of-pocket expenses if it meant that someone who knew and cared about
> what I was doing inspected & signed off my work.
>
> Sounds like an issue to bring up with the appropriate EAA reps to me.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> Kip
Right on! See my E-Mail to the group today.
John Dilatush
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-list FAA Highway Robbery |
John, As I read your letter I could not help thinking
back to EAA in Hales Corners when Paul P answered all mail personally at
night after his full time job with the Air Guard. The pur pore of the org was
clear, to help people build their own airplanes and build a strong lobby in
Washington. That was in the mid fifties. I left aviation about 60 and didn't
rejoin EAA until a few months ago when I was led to beleive they were the
PUSHERS of this new sport pilot ruling. I wanted to support this movement.
NOW, I'm getting a strong feeling that EAA has changed and I don't think they
are PUSHING as they did in the beginning but for the sake of their own hugh
financial perpetuation they are being nice and not making too many waves. I
may be 200% wrong but this is the feeling I'm getting. Take this last month's
issue of their magazine. Not one article about the sport pilot progress and
what EAA is or has done to push it. I hope I'm wrong but I just wanted to say
what I feel.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pietlist(at)juno.com |
Has anyone ever made their ribs from 1/4 plywood??
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Wilcox" <CraigWilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAA Highway Robery |
posted by: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
>
> Now Boys,
> I've been known to throw a few negatives in the direction of Washington,
> HOWEVER,since yesterday and talking with my new found friend Jim in Baton
> Rouge who will do my inspections PLEASE get off the Feds a-- UNTIL I get
in
> the air. Bet none of you would ever dream of something like that coming
from
>
> Corky in beautiful federally regulated La
Corky, at the end of a long day fighting various city, county, state and
federal bureaucraps, you bring lightness, glee, and a smile. I NEVER
thought I'd hear you say one good word about any WYB, especially a FED!
Good luck with Jim - he must be 1 in 10,000.
Craigo
Melting steel on the Duce! (And wishing I was working in wood like a good
honest Peet-n-poler!)
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 5/9/01 5:55:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, pietlist(at)juno.com
writes:
> Has anyone ever made their ribs from 1/4 plywood??
>
Steve,
I have never heard of any. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim <tbertw(at)tenbuckplans.com> |
| Subject: | DAR's (AAAARRRRRRGGGGGG!!!!!) |
List,
I am completing a Challenger II - Kit. I was ready to start looking into
inspections and found a DAR. All seemed fairly reasonable till he faxed me
11 pages of things I would have to do in preparation. It seems that most of
the stuff was reasonable and in the regs. I questioned him on such things
as an ELT during the initial 40 hour period, since it would be solo and he
agreed that the ELT was not necessary. He wanted and then insisted on a
separate log book for the propeller. Told him my PA28-140 had the propeller
in the engine log and he said that did not matter. He said that he was to
be paid from portal to portal at $50 / hour - this included 2 hours travel.
He would not give an estimate on the hours required. The final straw was a
"hold harmless" release from any accident or injury resulting from the
operation of the A/C that he inspected. A release is one thing, but a "hold
harmless" release is quite another. I am not a lawyer, but those releases
require me to pay for his attourney if someone sues him for neglegence or
something.
His overall attitude was arrogant. He basically inferred that his
inspection would be thorough and tuff to pass. I still may HAVE to use him,
but I certainly hope not. I will have my EAA tech councilor inspect the A/C
before the DAR sees it. I have several friends that have built and fly
experimentals and they have also agreed to inspect the A/C before the DAR
sees it. If after these inspections are passed, I certainly will NOT pay a
DAR if he gives me grief and fails to pass the A/C. Sounds a little harsh,
but that is the way that I feel.
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Thanks for the input Don. I'm hoping we can attract more people will be strong
in leadership.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: DonanClara(at)aol.com [SMTP:DonanClara(at)aol.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EAA chapters
In a message dated 05/08/2001 9:33:25 PM Central Daylight Time,
horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:
<< what are some of the things that chapters do to keep meetings interesting
and member coming back?
>>
Hi Richard, A common concern for all but the most active chapters. I'm sure
you will get lots of suggestions. Our chapter does not have a regular meeting
place although it's been going for 30 years. The members seem quite content
to meet at different member's homes each month to view their projects, have
construction, weight and balance demonstrations...such as that. This is
balanced by field trips and fly-ins. Good luck
Don Hicks
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Thanks for the ideas.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: fishin [SMTP:fishin(at)wwa.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EAA chapters
I belong to 2 chapters, 414 & 217. some of the things we enjoy are;
enviting guest speakers
showing aviation related videos
fly-outs to air museums
young eagle flying
visiting other members projects
visiting Delta Hawk to see the prototype desiel aircraft engine
planning the annual 2 day picnic fly-in
cook-out food sales at local flying events (chapter fund raiser)
flying to fly-in breakfasts
these are some of our activities to give you ideas
regards
JoeC Zion, IL
N99621
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Date: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 7:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: EAA chapters
>
>Any EAA chapter members on linde? I find my self in a leadership role in a
new chapter at Crystal Airport Minneapolis, MN. We have 15 members signed
up and I need a bit of advice. Mainly, what are some of the things that
chapters do to keep meetings interesting and member coming back?
>So far we have had some members bring over their homebuilts for a look -
see. and next month I am planning a short hop to another airport for coffee.
>We dont have a hangar yet, meetings are at one members hangar.
>
>Your experience would be appreciated.
>Dick
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Thanks Greg
Do you get a good turn out for meetings? I remember seeing ads in the
Star Aviation column with meeting dates along time ago. I'm going to
try that a few times. I really hope this gets some depth and I dont
have to feel like I have to "entertain".
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Cardinal [SMTP:gcardinal(at)startribune.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EAA chapters
Richard,
There are several members of Chapter 25 on this list. We are in the
South metro Minneapolis / Lakeville / Eden Prairie area.
Project visits are always good, speakers are good - especially those
giving working demo's of building techniques. Lots of aviation museums
in the Twin Cities will open there doors for private meetings.
Call me anytime.
Greg Cardinal
612 673-7540 work
612 721-6235 home
>>> Richard Navratil 05/08 8:25 PM >>>
Any EAA chapter members on linde? I find my self in a leadership role
in a new chapter at Crystal Airport Minneapolis, MN. We have 15 members
signed up and I need a bit of advice. Mainly, what are some of the
things that chapters do to keep meetings interesting and member coming
back?
So far we have had some members bring over their homebuilts for a look -
see. and next month I am planning a short hop to another airport for
coffee.
We dont have a hangar yet, meetings are at one members hangar.
Your experience would be appreciated.
Dick
=
=
=
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer |
Rod Wooller wrote:
> I have just laid up my horizontal stabilizer in the jig and was measuring
> out where the elevator hinges would attach when I find that the diagonal
> braces end up just where the outside hinges should go (4" from the end). I
> can get one machine screw thru the beam, but the outer one should go where
> the brace ends. I have some 1 3/4" stainless wood screws that I was
thinking
> of screwing thru the beam and brace with a bit of help from T88 epoxy. Is
> this an acceptable practice, or is there another way of fixing the outer
> hinge?
>
> Rod W.
> in sunny West Aussie.
Well Rod,
That was one of the first parts we worked on on our Piet project some
7 years ago and we drilled the outer attachment hole clear thru the
diagonal brace, saw where it came thru and cut and glued a triangular
block in to have a flat surface for the flat washer and locking nut to sit.
When the glue was dry, we drilled thru the diagonal block.
Now all this means that the nut is down inside the gussets and the flathead
screw is longer than normally you would be accustomed to seeing it but it
works for us.
Keep in mind that for fitting up to see how things fit, use a regular nut
because all the hardware will have to be removed so that you can varnish
the wood every where, including down in the gussets and also in the drilled
holes. Of course this means you'll have to drill out the holes again to
remove
the excess varnish.
Rodger
still building, but much closer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: TEXAS FLY IN |
Mike,
Thanks for the call. It was so late that I hesitated call you back.
I live in Farmers Branch, in Brookhaven just off Marsh Lane. I think a Piet
fly-in would be fun.
Tom
April 14, 2001 - May 10, 2001
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-by