Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bz

May 10, 2001 - June 12, 2001



________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2001
From: Don Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net>
Subject: A little help
I have downloaded the messages about the problems of FAA certification of homebuilts (especially Pietenpols) that have been on the Piet chat net for the last few days. Tomorrow I will give the package of printouts to Earl Lawrence at EAA. I expect you will hear something from Earl on any EAA action (or not). Earl does follow through. I will also see some other folks at EAA. Meanwhile, keep building! Doc Mosher Oshkosh USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Horizontal stabilizer
Date: May 10, 2001
Thanks for all the replies. A long machine screw thru the brace sounds strong as an ox. Thanks again guys. Rod W. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: A little help
Date: May 10, 2001
Alright, all this discussion on DAR's vs. Federalies forces me to come out of lurkdum and throw another spanner at the machine.... But first, since I'm gonna do this, I figure I better introduce myself a bit.... Back about 22 years ago, I was a in A&P school and helped a teacher build a GN-1. I fell in love with the plane and knew I would someday have one of my own. I started collecting everything Pietenpol and throwing it in an old file cabinet. Through the years, I built a Dragonfly and an RV-4 with my brother. On top of that, I think I helped build another 10 or 12 planes with friends. Then one day my Sport Aviation arrived, and inside was Mr. Cuy's Piet. The stars aligned, the moon was in phase and the tides rose. I spent the next three days in a mad flurry of ordering plans, finding a wood source and buying hand saws. That was the beginning of when I would be able to say I'VE got a Piet. (It may not be flying it yet, but....). Since then, I have the fuselage boxed up and am working on the turtledeck, my tail feathers are ready for hinges and cover, the ribs are about to be gettin' glued up and I'm thinking of motors that can endure Arizona summers and density altitudes. Thank you, Mr. Cuy for making me FINALLY get of my lazy behind and inspiring me to reach for the brass..... I'm an A&P and IA by trade, and spent many years in general aviation working on everything from Cubs to Gulfstreams. Most of the time I was a Director of Maintenance or Chief Inspector at the FBO's or charter airlines. In '89 I went to work for one of the Majors, and ended up running the Quality Assurance department. Unlike Quality Control, which does the actual physical inspecting, I was the direct liaison with the FAA. I was also in charge of the technical documentation and the paperwork issues with aircraft acquisitions. I think I probably have imported, exported or inducted 150 aircraft into or out of the various airlines, operators and leasing companies from all over the world - 727's, 737's, 747's, 757's, Learjets, 421's, etc. I used both DAR's and the FAA extensively to get Cof A's for these planes. Throughout this time I developed a lot of good relationships with a lot of different FAA inspectors. I count many of them as my friends. We fly together, we drink beer together and we talk airplanes. And then, there's the ones I won't mention..... When my buddy with an RV-4 was having trouble with getting someone out to inspect his airplane, and it ended up being one of my Federal servant friends that came out to sign him off, a light went off in my head and I said to myself, "Self...why don't you go get yer DAR and then you can do this for all the guys and gals building at ol' Falcon Field? Hell, you got all this regulatory background, can argue regs with the best of them, and you got both lightplane and heavy 'speriance". Well, I call up the FAA and I tell 'em what I want to do.......and here it gets ugly. Get out your pens and paper and get ready to write your Senator, EAA Prez or politically corrupt public servant....... DAR's come in many types, but the one that concerns us is the one that can issue a Certificate of Airworthiness. Now, DAR's are issued their certificate based on their experience. Some can issue C of A's for lightplanes and homebuilts, some can only issue C of A's for heavies, some can do both and some can only do aircraft parts. There are many levels and types of DAR's beyond these. BUT, the local FAA offices ALL have someone that can issue a C of A. It's part of there scope and duty. They'll tell ya it has to be a MIDO, but don't believe 'em, it ain't true. When I asked to get mine, I was told I would have to go to the Western Pacific Region office, because the number of DAR's was limited. The Region referred me back to my FSDO. The FSDO told me that they were "full up" and they wouldn't be issuing any anytime soon, but I was top on the list. Seems DAR's are controlled by the local office....hmmmm. Two months later, an AVIONICS inspector retires and is granted a DAR. This guy knows squat about anything but Narco or King, yet his 20 years chasing sparks for Uncle Sam in the U.S. Air Force and another 20 chasing sparks through his desk phone at the local FSDO qualified him to determine AIRWORTHINESS. The FAA defines airworthiness as 'being in a condition for safe flight and conforming to it's Type Design'. Since homebuilts don't have a 'Type Design' or are issued a Type Certificate, it must be in a condition for safe flight and meet the other criteria outlined in certain Advisoy Circulars mentioned in previous posts.My point is that this cat doesn't know an aileron from an elevator and he is going to determine "Airworthiness". Meanwhile, one of the DAR's here in Phoenix gives up his certificate, another (who lives in Seattle and has for the last 12 years and claims he still is geographically in Phoenix) gives his up, and I'm still told that "we're full up". Seems there's two more local Feds getting ready to retire. See, when you're double dipping the system, one from the military, then catching another bucket of green from the FAA, you just gotta get out there and screw that homebuilder for 400 bucks to pay for the Viagra. Meanwhile, there's folks lined up trying to get their planes flying and the guy in Tucson still wants way too much cash. The couple of guys in Phoenix who can do it are too afraid of the liability and won't do it. Well, there's always an excuse why they can't, but it's easy to read between the lines. Bitter? Not me. Just tired of the fight. I got airplanes to fly and to build. So...what do we do? I think the best course is the EAA counselor idea. Sorry for the long winded recital, but I run in to this issue constantly at my airport too, and it seems like most folks don't quite understand how it all works. Chris House Jack of all trades, Master of none (and looking forward to Corky's take :) ) It must be the heat.....105 today! ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: A little help > > I have downloaded the messages about the problems of FAA certification of > homebuilts (especially Pietenpols) that have been on the Piet chat net for > the last few days. Tomorrow I will give the package of printouts to Earl > Lawrence at EAA. I expect you will hear something from Earl on any EAA > action (or not). Earl does follow through. I will also see some other > folks at EAA. > > Meanwhile, keep building! > > Doc Mosher > Oshkosh USA > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: A little help
Date: May 10, 2001
I forward off of many lists, items I think Earl needs to see! You are correct about Earl. Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Mosher" <docshop(at)tds.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: A little help I have downloaded the messages about the problems of FAA certification of homebuilts (especially Pietenpols) that have been on the Piet chat net for the last few days. Tomorrow I will give the package of printouts to Earl Lawrence at EAA. I expect you will hear something from Earl on any EAA action (or not). Earl does follow through. I will also see some other folks at EAA. Meanwhile, keep building! Doc Mosher Oshkosh USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: plywood ribs
Date: May 10, 2001
Steve, Interesting to hear a cry for building help in the middle of a FAA bash-a-thon. Yes, plywood ribs are a possibility but they are heavy and expensive (aircraft plywood I mean). The stuff at Lowes may work but I'm not sure I would put my butt on the line to save a few hundred dollars. Actually, I haven't heard of a few ribs failing and bringing down a plane, just a costly repair to uncover, fix, and recover. The NACA (NASA before the space race) did several studies on rib design. If you get on their web site, you'll find several thousand reports on aircraft design covering all aspects. The nice thing is that it was for aircraft of the day: wooden and covered with fabric, just what you would be looking for. http://naca.larc.nasa.gov Also, I think I just went through what you are with rib designs, I was looking for a cheap and easy way to build ribs. I've written my finding down on my web page. Check out the Sitka Spruce Alternatives and Pober Super Ace pages. http://robertsjunk.tripod.com If I had to start again, here's how I would do it: I would probably choose a good white pine (not Ponderosa Pine, I mean Eastern White) or Douglas Fir, it all depends on what your Lowes/Home Depot has. Sitka is great too but pricey. Make a good jig, it's worth it. For gussets, use a 2" hole saw and cut a bunch of circles. There's a way to do this and waste no plywood, just stagger the rows of circles. Cut the circles in half and... two gussets. I would make a full rib in the jig using T-88 and 1/4-20 nails. The nails would allow me to pull the rib out of the jig. Then I would use T-88 and big binder clips (you know, really big paper clips) and do the other side. When I had to, I would let the gussets run over the top of the rib and sand later, although I would try to just leave them a little short. The oozing T-88 made a nice fillet. Robert Haines Murphysboro, Illinois ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: DAR Scam
I don't know about you guys, but Chris House's story about his experience with trying to become a DAR when others who were avionics guys get the job....then he's told they are 'full-up' is just the scam I thought this DAR thing was. I mailed off a note to my FAA friend this AM asking him "what does it take to become a DAR and how are they selected ?" Shoot, they all must be from the Louisiana good ole boys club ! (just kidding Corky......we love ya, man.) Anyway- we all get the point. Thanks too for Doc Mosher to forward our issues directly with EAA. Doc has lots of close contacts at EAA and lives right there. Finally, thanks Chris for your words about seeing the Piet 70 year Anniversary article in the Dec. '99 issue of Sport Aviation by Jack Cox. Glad it got you fired-up and making sawdust. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 10, 2001
Subject: Re: DAR Scam
Pieters, From the interest generated on the DAR subject and the FAA I get the idea that many of you have had a craw full for a long time but were too nice to explode. NEVER be afraid to state your opinion. All are NOT going to agree but the few that do will get it going just like right now and BOOM, somebody is going to get off their a-- and get to work. Corky, in La entertaining 22 old women today. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: A little help
Date: May 10, 2001
Chris, You are absolutely correct about the "good old boy system" of DAR appointments. We have the same problem here in our area and have also heard tales of the same thing in other areas. The only thing that most of these "good old boys " know how to do is to survive the system, read regulations, but not have the common sense to apply them to a situation such as experimetal aircraft. I feel sorry for them. John Dilatush dilatush(at)amigo.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New Chapter
From: "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sct.com>
Date: May 10, 2001
05/10/2001 10:04:56 AM Don't forget the EAA website. It has a special section for chapters. I haven't looked at it, but I think it may provide a lot of ideas for you. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re:Soob Power
From: "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sct.com>
Date: May 10, 2001
05/10/2001 10:09:07 AM There is an aircraft engines list at matronics.com. It is pretty active on rotaries right now, but I'm sure the archives will have a lot of Soob related stuff. There are some serious engine geeks on this. You should be able to get a lot of help. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kgardner(at)odu.edu
Subject: Re: A little help
Date: May 10, 2001
05/10/2001 10:21:13 AM Doc, Thanks for taking that on! I hope it stirs some interest at EAA. I appreciate Corky's concern that EAA may be a little too cozy with FAA & not willing to make many waves. I am sometimes suspicious of organizations that get big enough to drift away from their primary purpose. I don't think this is generally the case with EAA, but they do need real grassroots input if they are going to reflect our needs and concerns. In every organization I've been involved with over the years, 10% of the menmbers did 90% of the work & influenced 90% of the decision making. It's up to us to be part of the 10%. John D. - Can you repost the name of the EAA VP you suggested we contact - I've been having fits with a new 'upgraded' email system (courtesy of the University computer support office - their motto should be 'we do it for and to you') & I accidentally deleted your message after I read it. I know all of this is not directly related to the technical issues of building, but sometimes politics is necessary. Cheers! Kip ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kgardner(at)odu.edu
Subject: Re: plywood ribs
Date: May 10, 2001
05/10/2001 10:24:42 AM Steve, For what it's worth, there was an article in KitPlanes a few years ago (i have the issue if you want more info) about a guy in FL who built a Piet, allegedly with ply ribs. Don't know if this is for real or inaccurate reporting, but like I said, if you want more info, I can get it to you. Actually, I like the hole-saw gusset idea, I've not been looking forward to cutting up ply into a bunch of little rectangles on my Father-in-law's table saw - them things make me just a tad nervous when cutting things to really small dimensions! Cheers! Kip Gardner ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: cutting gussetts
Date: May 10, 2001
I cut mine with a metal straight edge and a utility knife for the long strips, then used a paper cutter to cut the strips up. Zero waste. Joe >From: kgardner(at)odu.edu >Actually, I like the hole-saw gusset idea, I've not been looking forward to >cutting up ply into a bunch of little rectangles on my Father-in-law's >table saw - them things make me just a tad nervous when cutting things to >really small dimensions! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Teal38(at)aol.com
Date: May 10, 2001
Subject: Re: plywood ribs
Steve, Don't know of any Piets with Ply ribs. The idea is sound. Not sure of the weight increase with the ply ribs. Why don't you make one and see what the difference is. When I was making my ribs, I could do one about every night. Just lots of little sticks. I made up all the little pieces first, then went to town. Scott. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Ply ribs
Date: May 10, 2001
Has anyone ever made their ribs from 1/4 plywood?? Steve>>> During the time I was building my Piet - 1982 to 1986 - I owned a 65hp Piet built by Ed Sampson. It had plywood ribs. Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: A little help
Date: May 10, 2001
Kip, The E-mail address to get directly into the government programs office of the EAA is govt(at)eaa.org and to get to their home page is www.eaa.org and the last contact that I had with them was with Robert T. Warner, Executive Vice President. Good Luck! John Dilatush dilatush(at)amigo.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Bingelis and rib options
In one of Tony Bingelis's books he discusses the various options for fabricating ribs. Plywood, your own stamped aluminum, and the built-up spruce and gusset versions like the Piet uses. I think the four book series is around $75 or so thru EAA BUT......I tell you those books saved me in making much more $$$$$ in that by avoiding some errors I could have easily made. (I made enough as it was;) I wanted to make windshields one weekend. Ok....get some plexiglass from Home Depot and go at it. What a mistake. Go to Tony's book....look up this subject and whala- he says try Lexan. You can drill it, cut it with a bandsaw or sabre saw, bend it, jump on it... and it might cost you more, but what a dream to work with. Who at the airport might have known that ? You get up out of bed (like Corky has to with that prostate) in the middle of the night and you keep wondering how to terminate your cables or what cable to use or how many wraps of safety wire or wire size is best. You grab your books in the bathroom and look it up. Tony is there to give you options, ideas, and the right way to do stuff. (just kidding Corky......I have to get up in the middle of the night too !!!) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: plywood ribs
Date: May 10, 2001
----- Original Message ----- From: <kgardner(at)odu.edu> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: plywood ribs > > > Steve, > > For what it's worth, there was an article in KitPlanes a few years ago (i > have the issue if you want more info) about a guy in FL who built a Piet, > allegedly with ply ribs. Don't know if this is for real or inaccurate > reporting, but like I said, if you want more info, I can get it to you. > > Actually, I like the hole-saw gusset idea, I've not been looking forward to > cutting up ply into a bunch of little rectangles on my Father-in-law's > table saw - them things make me just a tad nervous when cutting things to > really small dimensions! > > Cheers! > > Kip Gardner > > Kip, I was told there was even an easier way to cut gussets, that is to simply use a paper cutter! John Dilatush > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2001
From: Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Bingelis and rib options
Let me add my amen to what Mike said about Tony Bingelis's books. There have been very few problems I have found building this plane that I didn't find solutions for in Tony's books. So far, I have used 5 "Bibles" in building my Piet - AC43-13 (FAA), The Sportplane Builder (Bingelis), Sportplane Construction Techniques (Bingelis), Aircraft Woodworking (EAA) and Aircraft Welding (EAA). I have the other two Bingelis books, Tony Bingelis on Engines, and Firewall Forward, but although I've read them I haven't had to use them yet because I haven't gotten into the engine installation yet. The Bingelis books are not only informative, they are just plain interesting reading. Nobody should attempt to build an airplane without them. They are full of little tips that help you avoid giving the FAA or DAR inspector something to ding you on - like having all the bolts installed with the heads up or forward, and how to correctly install cotter pins and safety wire. If you don't have them, either buy 'em now or tell your wife to get them for you for Christmas. That's what I did. Jack ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: certification resources
Group- I have more info from my FAA guy I'll share tomorrow, BUT.... two good web sites to go see: http://www.provide.net/~pratt/ambuilt/faqhmblt.htm and http://www.av-info.faa.gov/dst Look under 8100.8 for how they pick DAR's.... Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kgardner(at)odu.edu
Subject: Bingelis and rib options
Date: May 10, 2001
05/10/2001 02:46:28 PM Jack, Thanks for passing on the information about the various books you have found useful while building. A month or so ago, I recall Chris Bobka offering to handle the orders for books from EAA during their Spring book sale, which sounds like a great deal to me. Is the offer still good Chris? Is the sale coming up soon? (Are you still on the List?) Cheers! Kip Gardner ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "fishin" <fishin(at)wwa.com>
Subject: Re: plywood ribs
Date: May 10, 2001
for cutting the 1/16" ply gussetts, I used the 2 1/8" hole saw and after cut out I used a pair of heavy duty sissors to cut them in two or quarters. worked like a charm, quick and easy no power tools needed for this light weight stuff. regards JoeC N99621 Zion, IL -----Original Message----- From: kgardner(at)odu.edu <kgardner(at)odu.edu> Date: Thursday, May 10, 2001 7:33 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: plywood ribs > > >Steve, > >For what it's worth, there was an article in KitPlanes a few years ago (i >have the issue if you want more info) about a guy in FL who built a Piet, >allegedly with ply ribs. Don't know if this is for real or inaccurate >reporting, but like I said, if you want more info, I can get it to you. > >Actually, I like the hole-saw gusset idea, I've not been looking forward to >cutting up ply into a bunch of little rectangles on my Father-in-law's >table saw - them things make me just a tad nervous when cutting things to >really small dimensions! > >Cheers! > >Kip Gardner > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2001
From: "Bob Seibert" <r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com>
Subject: S.A.A.
I have to comment about the statement that the EAA has changed since the good old days. It really has and Paul P. knows it! There is, however a new "EAA". The Sport Aviation Association. It really does not compete with the EAA. It is for people who build Piets, Flybabys, etc. I just joined this organization and am very impressed with the newsletter I got. They actually have articles on building your own airplane out of raw materials! More amazing is that they do not charge dues! Donations only! After recieving this first issue, I feel strongly enough to send off a donation check this week. (and I'm a tightwad!) Piet builders should love this. http://www.sportaviation.org/ I am not knocking the EAA. I continue to be active in it but, this SAA is really impressive in its own right. Bob Seibert SAA#1438 EAA#159360 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kgardner(at)odu.edu
Subject: Re: plywood ribs
Date: May 10, 2001
05/10/2001 03:19:29 PM Group, Thanks to everyone who gave me alternatives to cutting gussets on a table saw! Most things are easier than I think once I hear other opinions - but then my wife claims that I have a tendency to do things the hard way! Cheers! Kip Gardner ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2001
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: plywood ribs
> > > >Actually, I like the hole-saw gusset idea, I've not > been looking forward to > >cutting up ply into a bunch of little rectangles on > my Father-in-law's > >table saw - them things make me just a tad nervous > when cutting things to > >really small dimensions! I made a sliding table for my table saw. You can use a 1/8 or 1/4 inch wood or plexiglass for a platform( approx the same size or a little smaller than the table saw table)screw or glue two strips underneath that fit into the mitre slots, put a fence on top square to the sawblade, and then push it through the saw up until the fence and not any further. make a stop block that fits over the fence with a set screw to hold in place. with this set up you can cut absolutely square with a tolerance of + or - .005 on repetitive cuts. cutting pieces as small as 1/2" is no problem because of the small slot in the sliding table. you can also attach fences at any angle you want to make repetitive cuts such as pieces for the ribs. making it unnecesary to cut one rib at a time. try it you wouldn't do without it once you have one. it adds tons of safety and you can easily attach blade covers to it if you want even more safety. I've used mine for 20 years and threw my useless radial arm saw out years ago. I do use a chop saw for large pieces that are hard to push over the table saw. but for small pieces there is no other way. also works wonderful for cutting alum parts. del Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: A little help
Date: May 10, 2001
The man to contact is Earl Lawrence. Knowing Earl, he works very hard to represent you as an EAAer and get the consideration you deserve. He does go to bat for you and makes sure that the weird "in the field" personal interpretations are over come. Sort of levels the playing field. His e-mail is elawrence(at)eaa.org. Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club Newsletter Editor & EAA TC www.bellanca-championclub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <kgardner(at)odu.edu> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A little help Doc, Thanks for taking that on! I hope it stirs some interest at EAA. I appreciate Corky's concern that EAA may be a little too cozy with FAA & not willing to make many waves. I am sometimes suspicious of organizations that get big enough to drift away from their primary purpose. I don't think this is generally the case with EAA, but they do need real grassroots input if they are going to reflect our needs and concerns. In every organization I've been involved with over the years, 10% of the menmbers did 90% of the work & influenced 90% of the decision making. It's up to us to be part of the 10%. John D. - Can you repost the name of the EAA VP you suggested we contact - I've been having fits with a new 'upgraded' email system (courtesy of the University computer support office - their motto should be 'we do it for and to you') & I accidentally deleted your message after I read it. I know all of this is not directly related to the technical issues of building, but sometimes politics is necessary. Cheers! Kip ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2001
From: mboynton(at)excite.com
Subject: Re: A little help
Chris, Do you live in the east valley? I'm located in Gilbert, where I'm working (slowly) on a Piet. I'd like to see your project. Mark Boynton Gilbert, AZ > > Alright, all this discussion on DAR's vs. Federalies forces me to come out > of lurkdum and throw another spanner at the machine.... > > But first, since I'm gonna do this, I figure I better introduce myself a > bit.... > > Back about 22 years ago, I was a in A&P school and helped a teacher build a > GN-1. I fell in love with the plane and knew I would someday have one of my > own. I started collecting everything Pietenpol and throwing it in an old > file cabinet. Through the years, I built a Dragonfly and an RV-4 with my > brother. On top of that, I think I helped build another 10 or 12 planes with > friends. Then one day my Sport Aviation arrived, and inside was Mr. Cuy's > Piet. The stars aligned, the moon was in phase and the tides rose. I spent > the next three days in a mad flurry of ordering plans, finding a wood source > and buying hand saws. That was the beginning of when I would be able to say > I'VE got a Piet. (It may not be flying it yet, but....). Since then, I have > the fuselage boxed up and am working on the turtledeck, my tail feathers are > ready for hinges and cover, the ribs are about to be gettin' glued up and > I'm thinking of motors that can endure Arizona summers and density > altitudes. Thank you, Mr. Cuy for making me FINALLY get of my lazy behind > and inspiring me to reach for the brass..... > > I'm an A&P and IA by trade, and spent many years in general aviation working > on everything from Cubs to Gulfstreams. Most of the time I was a Director of > Maintenance or Chief Inspector at the FBO's or charter airlines. In '89 I > went to work for one of the Majors, and ended up running the Quality > Assurance department. Unlike Quality Control, which does the actual physical > inspecting, I was the direct liaison with the FAA. I was also in charge of > the technical documentation and the paperwork issues with aircraft > acquisitions. I think I probably have imported, exported or inducted 150 > aircraft into or out of the various airlines, operators and leasing > companies from all over the world - 727's, 737's, 747's, 757's, Learjets, > 421's, etc. I used both DAR's and the FAA extensively to get Cof A's for > these planes. Throughout this time I developed a lot of good relationships > with a lot of different FAA inspectors. I count many of them as my friends. > We fly together, we drink beer together and we talk airplanes. And then, > there's the ones I won't mention..... > > When my buddy with an RV-4 was having trouble with getting someone out to > inspect his airplane, and it ended up being one of my Federal servant > friends that came out to sign him off, a light went off in my head and I > said to myself, "Self...why don't you go get yer DAR and then you can do > this for all the guys and gals building at ol' Falcon Field? Hell, you got > all this regulatory background, can argue regs with the best of them, and > you got both lightplane and heavy 'speriance". Well, I call up the FAA and > I tell 'em what I want to do.......and here it gets ugly. Get out your pens > and paper and get ready to write your Senator, EAA Prez or politically > corrupt public servant....... > > DAR's come in many types, but the one that concerns us is the one that can > issue a Certificate of Airworthiness. Now, DAR's are issued their > certificate based on their experience. Some can issue C of A's for > lightplanes and homebuilts, some can only issue C of A's for heavies, some > can do both and some can only do aircraft parts. There are many levels and > types of DAR's beyond these. BUT, the local FAA offices ALL have someone > that can issue a C of A. It's part of there scope and duty. They'll tell ya > it has to be a MIDO, but don't believe 'em, it ain't true. > > When I asked to get mine, I was told I would have to go to the Western > Pacific Region office, because the number of DAR's was limited. The Region > referred me back to my FSDO. The FSDO told me that they were "full up" and > they wouldn't be issuing any anytime soon, but I was top on the list. Seems > DAR's are controlled by the local office....hmmmm. Two months later, an > AVIONICS inspector retires and is granted a DAR. This guy knows squat about > anything but Narco or King, yet his 20 years chasing sparks for Uncle Sam in > the U.S. Air Force and another 20 chasing sparks through his desk phone at > the local FSDO qualified him to determine AIRWORTHINESS. The FAA defines > airworthiness as 'being in a condition for safe flight and conforming to > it's Type Design'. Since homebuilts don't have a 'Type Design' or are issued > a Type Certificate, it must be in a condition for safe flight and meet the > other criteria outlined in certain Advisoy Circulars mentioned in previous > posts.My point is that this cat doesn't know an aileron from an elevator and > he is going to determine "Airworthiness". Meanwhile, one of the DAR's here > in Phoenix gives up his certificate, another (who lives in Seattle and has > for the last 12 years and claims he still is geographically in Phoenix) > gives his up, and I'm still told that "we're full up". Seems there's two > more local Feds getting ready to retire. See, when you're double dipping the > system, one from the military, then catching another bucket of green from > the FAA, you just gotta get out there and screw that homebuilder for 400 > bucks to pay for the Viagra. Meanwhile, there's folks lined up trying to get > their planes flying and the guy in Tucson still wants way too much cash. The > couple of guys in Phoenix who can do it are too afraid of the liability and > won't do it. Well, there's always an excuse why they can't, but it's easy to > read between the lines. Bitter? Not me. Just tired of the fight. I got > airplanes to fly and to build. > > So...what do we do? I think the best course is the EAA counselor idea. > > Sorry for the long winded recital, but I run in to this issue constantly at > my airport too, and it seems like most folks don't quite understand how it > all works. > > Chris House > Jack of all trades, Master of none (and looking forward to Corky's take :) ) > > It must be the heat.....105 today! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Don Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 10:18 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: A little help > > > > > > I have downloaded the messages about the problems of FAA certification of > > homebuilts (especially Pietenpols) that have been on the Piet chat net > for > > the last few days. Tomorrow I will give the package of printouts to Earl > > Lawrence at EAA. I expect you will hear something from Earl on any EAA > > action (or not). Earl does follow through. I will also see some other > > folks at EAA. > > > > Meanwhile, keep building! > > > > Doc Mosher > > Oshkosh USA > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Reply form Earl Lawrence forwarded by Cy Galley
Date: May 10, 2001
ALL Many of you have forwarded your comments on the current status of homebuilt certification to EAA and have commented as to what has EAA done about this issue. I do not usually respond to email lists as if I did that is all I would do all day and would not get any work done, but the many emails forwarded to me on this issue I felt I had to respond. In this era of communication overload I guess I can understand how you have missed EAA's press releases, Sport Aviation and Experimenter articles, web reports, Technical Councilor and Flight Advisor direct mailings, emails to all EAA chapters, the EAA homebuilt web area and the many web releases on this subject over the history of EAA. Home built aircraft certification has always been the number one or two issue of EAA government relations. The issue of homebuilt certification and what EAA staff is doing about it has been an specific agenda item of the every EAA Board of Directors meeting for the last two years. In addition to ensure EAA staff keeps its eye on the homebuilt community needs EAA created the EAA Homebuilt Aircraft Council, which helps sets priorities and reviews what staff is doing for the homebuilder. EAA government relations maintains one staff person, available through a toll free number to members, (Randy Hansen) whose only job is to take member calls and help them with their government related issue although he receives many many calls and email every day we are only asked for help with a certification issue about once a month. The EAA government relations core priorities for 2001 (as published on the web, all EAA magazines, press releases etc.) included only four issues: Amateur Built Certification Sport Pilot Ageing Aircraft Replacement for upcoming loss of 100LL EAA Aviation Information Services is also available through a toll free number five days a week to provide basic aviation information to all EAA members and especially for the homebuilder and restorer. If you can't find it on the EAA web page, or you do not have web access, call EAA the toll free number is listed on the first page of Sport Aviation. EAA and FAA have been working very closely on homebuilt issues. In the last four years EAA has obtained permission for US builders to operate their aircraft over populated areas, to make major changes to your aircraft, to fly into Canada and for Canadian Homebuilder to fly to the US, EAA got the FAA to release policy telling field inspectors that they could not require A&P's to sign-off homebuilts prior to final inspection, we helped FAA write and had released a standardized inspection guide for inspectors to follow when inspecting a homebuilt and subsequently added separate check lists for rotorcraft and we are working on checklists for Trikes and Powered Parachutes. EAA helped rewrite the entire FAA policy material for the issuance of both amateur-built and exhibition experimental certificates. This policy included all the operating limitations and the assignment of test areas. In addition EAA worked with the FAA to reduce the flight test time for ultralight type aircraft which obtain experimental certificates. EAA and FAA recently worked together to revise and update the Amateur-built Advisory Circular to meet the current rules and policies and the FAA is expected to be releasing the new AC in the next few months. For over the last year EAA and FAA have been working directly together to completely revamp the method amateur-built aircraft are certificated and the training both FAA inspectors and designees obtain prior to being authorized to inspect amateur-built aircraft. EAA has been publishing updates on this issue in all of our publications and on the web for the last year. Most recently we surveyed all the EAA Technical Counselors to get their feedback on what EAA has negotiated with the FAA and how many, if any, would be willing to participate in the new program which may include volunteer inspectors as well as kit manufacturer inspectors and others. In addition the new proposed program may be a national program were DAR's are appointed by one national office based on a national need not a local FAA office. The proposed new DAR's would also operate nationally without being limited to the current boundaries of FSDO's or MIDO's. One of the biggest concerns that EAA is working is that of the liability of the volunteer inspector. Several years ago the US Congress passed the volunteer protection act which EAA believes provides liability protection to an individual who performs inspections for the FAA on a volunteer basis. EAA and FAA legal representatives are actively review this act and are developing a position paper that will provide a description of how and under what circumstances the act will apply to our proposed new certification methods. All of this work takes time but the FAA has been very cooperative with EAA and have assigned the required personnel and resources need to support this process. Currently EAA hopes that around the first of 2002 the FAA will introduce the new revised procedures for training and appointment of amateur-built DAR's. EAA has noticed that frequently those who have complained about this issue are not currently EAA members so we suspect that they have not had exposure to EAA publications and programs so they are not aware of all the available information and services EAA has to offer. I hope this information is helpful to you and lets you see that we have been very busy, and successful, in working with the FAA to improve the ability for all amateur-builders to build, certificate and fly their aircraft. Earl Earl Lawrence VP Government Relations ________________________________________________________________________________
From: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: May 10, 2001
Subject: cutting rib gussets on table saw
Kip: That would make m nervous too. You can cut 1/16 ply with a heavy scissor or tin snips. Leon S. Gearing up for a rough summer in tornado alley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: looking for fuselage profile drawings to try color schemes
Date: May 10, 2001
Does anyone have side view sketches of the Piet to try out color schemes? Or paint programs? thanks walt ----------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug413(at)aol.com
Date: May 10, 2001
Subject: Braking pistons in my Model A
Gents, Does anyone know why pistons would break? I have broken 2 pistions in my model A engine; one in flight. The aircraft has 100 hours. The pistons which break tend to pull apart separating the bottom section from the top section at the bottom of the ring groove area. The bore, ring end gap, and piston clearance appear to be in spec. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rodger & Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Subject: Re: A little help
Date: May 10, 2001
> > Alright, all this discussion on DAR's vs. Federalies forces me to come out > of lurkdum and throw another spanner at the machine.... > > But first, since I'm gonna do this, I figure I better introduce myself a > bit.... my airport too, and it seems like most folks don't quite understand how it > all works. > > Chris House > Jack of all trades, Master of none (and looking forward to Corky's take :) ) > > It must be the heat.....105 today! Chris (aka Ignitor), You're beginning understand the situation and to make sense... and that's scary. And, No, it has nothing to do with the heat. Rodger enjoying a "cool" 86 deg day ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: A little help
Date: May 10, 2001
Cy, Thanks for getting a reply from Earl Lawrence. I know that the EAA is busy with many other issues, especially the Sport Pilot license. However I had the impression after reading the letter that the EAA has become as much of a bureaucracy as the FAA. Mr Lawrence is mistaken that he only receives about one complaint a month re: certification. I know that our chapter wrote at least 3 letters of complaint in one month alone, multiply this by the 1200 plus chapters in the EAA. No one else has complained? He also says that we are informed monthly about what the EAA is doing about the certification issue. I have carefully reviewed the last seven issues of Sport Aviation and found one article about certification in the November 2000 issue and one small reference back to the November article in the December issue. These are hardly monthly updates as he states in his letter! I could find nothing on their website about certification. And Randy Hansen in is office was the one who evidently "lost" the file I sent and addressed to him regarding my problems and correspondence that I had with the FAA. It was only after I wrote a critical letter about the EAA to Paul Poberezny that I got anyone to answer me. That answer came from Paul Poberezny who turned it over to Robert Warner, Executive VP. Mr. Warner took more than 3 weeks after this initial correspondence to reply. I have heard or read nothing since. All of this seems to demonstrate a poor regard for "service to the membership". I know that the EAA is hampered by the FAA rules and regulations, and that it is tough to get anything done, but I can't help but wonder because of the delays and obstacles now in the certification process, how many homebuilts are now flying without a C of A, and how many are really airworthy without having this final inspection? Is this serving the Safety God that everyone in the EAA and FAA proposes to worship? It seems to me that Earl Lawrences' letter is a lot of self serving eyewash. Are they truly working for us? John Dilatush dilatush(at)amigo.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry D. Morgan, Sr., MCP" <mrfixit(at)accessunited.com>
Subject: An Introduction...
Date: May 10, 2001
Gentlemen, I would like to introduce myself at this time with a couple lines of who I am. I'm a piet lover for sure, I have no aviation background (I do have 20 hrs in a 172), 46 years old, married with 3 grown children, 3 grandbabies. My brother has introduced me to this list as he and I both have started to build our own piets (aircampers). I've built a home and a barn (barn 24x40 2-story), so I have some building experience, per say. I watched you guys for the last month and this list has given me more confidence than anything except for maybe Roy Ferguson's scout he has almost finished. With his permission I will put some photos on my web page. It is simply the most beautiful craftsmanship I've ever seen, save none. I just want to thank you guys for all the help and ideas you post as well as your thoughts too. I see a huge mountain ahead, but you guys are very encouraging. I feel like I know Corky, Doug, Kip and all the rest... That's why I felt lead to say this so you guys will know that someone else is listening and learning. So very excited that I can hardly stand myself... Terry Morgan, Thomaston, Georgia mrfixit(at)accessunited.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: An Introduction...
Date: May 11, 2001
Terry, Welcome to the Piet list! I like to think of the building process the same way you'd eat an elephant - one little bite at a time! Just break it down into little jobs, and then take great pride in each little job finished. You'll be looking at your Piet sooner than you think! By the way, I've never built anything as ambitious as a barn!! If you can do that then the Piet will be a breeze! Have fun and post those questions! Best of luck! Gary Meadows Spring, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2001
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ply ribs
Well, I did, in the VP-1 (Volksplane) we built. They are faster to built that wooden but more heavier, at least 20% more weight (I think), and the Piet is more in the Heavy side... so I dont think they might work... The blue foam with epoxy fiberglass capstrips could be a better and faster option... but will not be a Piet anymore... Building the original is better. Saludos Gary Gower Piet Fan but not building one :-( --- Doug413(at)aol.com wrote: > Doug413(at)aol.com > > In a message dated 5/9/01 5:55:54 PM Pacific > Daylight Time, pietlist(at)juno.com > writes: > > > > Has anyone ever made their ribs from 1/4 plywood?? > > > > > Steve, > > I have never heard of any. Doug Bryant > Wichita Ks > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kgardner(at)odu.edu
Subject: Re: An Introduction...
Date: May 11, 2001
05/11/2001 09:59:08 AM Terry, Welcome to the list! I've only been on for about 3 months myself & already it has increased my confidence in my ability to see my project through to completion. As you know, there is an archive to look up old posts, but i have found it easier to paste the ones that interest me into Word files & save tham that way. Anyway, I hope you'll have fun with your project; I also feel like I'm getting to know the others on it. Of course, Mike Cuy & I will be real neighbors soon, so that should be real interesting for me - can'yt wait to see his Piet 'in person!' Regards, Kip Gardner ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kgardner(at)odu.edu
Subject: Letter to EAA re: DAR's
Date: May 11, 2001
05/11/2001 10:05:17 AM Group, I fired off the letter copied below to Mr. Warner just before the post forwarding the letter from Earl Lawrence came in. Maybe it will keep the pot stirring, anyway I doubt it will hurt. Cheers! Kip Gardner ******************************************************************************* Mr. Robert T. Warner, Executive Vice President Experimental Aircraft Association EAA Aviation Center 3000 Poberezny Road Oshkosh, WI 54903 Dear Mr. Warner, I am a fairly new member of the EAA, having joined less than a year ago. I have had a life-long interest in aviation and spent many years building and flying model aircraft while admiring full-size aircraft at air shows and airports. Whenever I could, I would catch rides with friends who were pilots and the joy of flying has grown over the years. Now I have decided to take on a construction project, hence my decision to join EAA. After a lot of research into designs and careful assessment of the type of flying I want to do, I have decided to build a Pietenpol Air Camper. I obtained plans from the Pietenpols, began researching how to go about building, etc. Eventually, this process led me to the Pietenpol Discussion List on the World Wide Web, as well as the Brodhead Pietenpol Association. Both of these groups are proving very helpful as I begin to move into the early construction phase of my project. As I have participated in the discussions on the e-list, the issue of airworthiness inspections has come up on a few occasions. Recently, an astounding number of postings have described what can only be called horror stories regarding dealing with FAA inspectors or DAR?s. These have ranged from descriptions of tail-dragging on handling paperwork, misinterpretation of regulations and AC?s, and outright refusal to do inspections by FAA officials. The stories about DAR?s have been even worse, including demands for outrageous fees (upwards of $900.00) to do inspections, insistence on builders signing comprehensive hold-harmless agreements, and outright ignorance of inspection procedures. One person related being referred to a DAR who was not even qualified to issue an Airworthiness Certificate on aircraft ? he specialized only in avionics. Based on these stories, I am concerned that the current inspection process is significantly flawed, particularly as it relates to using DAR?s. As the discussion on the e-list has progressed, it is clear that many in this community would like to see EAA take a more active and positive role in making the inspection and certification process truly serve the needs of the builder, while not compromising safety. As someone who someday hopes to have an Air Camper ready for inspection and certification, it is certainly worrying to me to think that after all the effort I will put into the project, I will have difficulty getting it certificated. Many in our group have proposed or endorsed the idea of the EAA becoming the active agent for doing these inspections. We feel that the necessary regulations to make this happen could be appended to the proposed Sport Pilot Regulations. As we envision it, this could be set up to use a cadre of volunteers, perhaps building on the Tech Counselor program, who would be certified as qualified to do inspections (AI?s or A&P?s), would be subject to EAA oversight, and protected from liability by FAA regulation and/or legislation. Given the scope of the responsibility they would have, we feel that modest compensation for their time, at a level that would not conflict with their volunteer status, would be appropriate. I hope that you will relay our concerns and ideas through both the EAA and any FAA officials that might be appropriate, especially the FAA?s Sport Pilot Program Manger. Thank you very much for your attention to these concerns, and on behalf of a very enthusiastic and talented group of builders, I am looking forward to your reply. Regards, Kip Gardner, EAA # 639841 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Certification- current status
Guys- this is the last I'll post on this since building is the real topic here anyway.....but certification is the icing on the cake so I guess it's worth discussing. Talked with the Cleveland MIDO Manager yesterday. Here is the story: 1) The EAA isn't too thrilled about taking on the responsibility for inspections or sponsoring qualified volunteer inspectors- LIABILITY again is the issue. 2) Not all areas of the US have DAR's. In Ohio we have none so the FAA has to do homebuilt inspections. 3) The FAA is now saying (at least here in Cleveland) Give them at least THREE months lead time. In other words- have all your paperwork in order and turned-in at least 3 mos. ahead of time. 4) In other areas they will refer you to a DAR but tell you they can do it.......but it will be at least one year before they can get to it. 5) FAA Headquarters is putting this into effect- not the local FAA offices. Flows downhill, I guess. 6) If you have DAR's in your area, just like Chris House said, not all are qualified to do homebuilts- and the ones that are can REFUSE you. They don't like to do homebuilts again because of the liability and the insurance policy costs to them against liability. 7) Some DAR's are only qualified to do avionics, some are only qualfied to do baggage handling systems, some are only qualified to do planes under 12,500 lbs. some are only qualified to inspect crankshaft gears for Continental engines. Hah ! Go figure that one ! 8) DAR's are appointed by the local MIDO offices. FSDO offices get thier DAR's' thru a competition by FAA region. 9) Good luck. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: A little help
Date: May 11, 2001
Cy, Thanks for your reply concerning Earl Lawrence and the work he is doing for the membership. I would like to meet him personally some day, maybe this year if I get back to Oshkosh. I know that he has a tough job dealing with the FAA. The FAA has become a bureaucratic political jungle that seems to be unable to resolve problems in a timely fashion. I believe that this inability to act quickly compromises safety, which is supposed to be their primary mandate. The problem of certification is a case in point. If an builder is unable to get his work approved for flight after years of constuction he is going to go fly anyway. Most of the time it works out, but sometimes the builder is unaware of the required standards of safe construction and this can lead to disaster. The FAA needs to solve this problem NOW! I can not believe that a private organization would survive very long if they are unable to react quickly to problems. Tell Mr. Lawrence that I am not mad at him -- just the situation. John Dilatush dilatush(at)amigo.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: A little help
Date: May 11, 2001
I understand your frustrations completely. I own a 14-13-2 Bellanca. It is a design that evolved from the 30's, Handbook, etc. In 1979, the FAA issued an AD on this very old approved manual as the aileron cable diagram was wrong. It only took 40 years for them to figure it out. So much for protecting the public in a timely manner. With regards to the inspection morass The FAA claims that they are so busy inspecting air carriers and FBO repair stations that they don't have time or personnel. They would like to get out of the inspection business entirely. That is where the high priced DARs come in. Unfortunately, they left the DARs high and dry when it come to liability. That is why my IA, became a former DAR. Those that have stayed, have to pay some rather high priced insurance. They have to collect money from somewhere to pay for the insurance. BUT, Our chapter has had a several planes ( 2 RV-8s and an AirBike) recently inspected by the FAA out of DesMoines, Iowa and DesPlaines, Illinois just by phoning to see when their personnel are in the area and set-up an appointment. So it can and has been done. One should lay some ground work to make sure the plane is ready by having several Tech Counselor inspections so you don't waste the time of the inspector. Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club Newsletter Editor & EAA TC www.bellanca-championclub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> Subject: A little help Cy, Thanks for your reply concerning Earl Lawrence and the work he is doing for the membership. I would like to meet him personally some day, maybe this year if I get back to Oshkosh. I know that he has a tough job dealing with the FAA. The FAA has become a bureaucratic political jungle that seems to be unable to resolve problems in a timely fashion. I believe that this inability to act quickly compromises safety, which is supposed to be their primary mandate. The problem of certification is a case in point. If an builder is unable to get his work approved for flight after years of constuction he is going to go fly anyway. Most of the time it works out, but sometimes the builder is unaware of the required standards of safe construction and this can lead to disaster. The FAA needs to solve this problem NOW! I can not believe that a private organization would survive very long if they are unable to react quickly to problems. Tell Mr. Lawrence that I am not mad at him -- just the situation. John Dilatush dilatush(at)amigo.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2001
From: Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: looking for fuselage profile drawings to try color
schemes Hi Walt, WHile rummaging around the web last night, I stumbled across this site. Not sure what it does, but it appears to be just what you are looking for. Good luck, Jack ------Original Message------ From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: looking for fuselage profile drawings to try color schemes Does anyone have side view sketches of the Piet to try out color schemes? Or paint programs? thanks walt ----------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2001
Subject: Needle little help
Dear Pieters, Have had a great day making up all my elevator cables and fabing the little fairleads in some neutral spot so the cables will not wander inches through the fabric. What should this tensions on those elvator cable compare to and should they be equal tensioned. Boy, I sure could use some help today. Corky wandering around in "Sportsman Paradise". ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pierson's" <pierson@pro-ns.net>
Subject: wood
Date: May 11, 2001
pietenpol group i am new to the list and trying to gather all the information i can. i just checked on the availability of spruce kits from jean peters at western a/c supply and he told me that he sold the business and that it should be up and running in about a month. he will advertise in sport aviation. hope this helps other newbies out there. dave pierson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug413(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2001
Subject: Re: Needle little help
In a message dated 5/11/01 10:50:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes: > Have had a great day making up all my elevator cables and fabing the little > fairleads in some neutral spot so the cables will not wander inches through > the fabric. What should this tensions on those elvator cable compare to and > should they be equal tensioned. Boy, I sure could use some help today. > Corky wandering around in "Sportsman Paradise". > > > Corky, I make them just tight enough to not bind anywhere in the full range of travel. I turns out to be not very tight on any of the flight control cables; certainly not rigged as a modern airplane is. Flies well that way. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca>
Subject: Re: Braking pistons in my Model A
Date: May 11, 2001
Doug Do the pistons break in the bottom of the oil ring groove? Is there any sign of galling or metal transfer in the ring land area between the rings? I have not had this happen to a Model A but I have seen other engines do it and it usually is a result of the pistons fitted too tightly. The expansion of aluminum is approximately three times that of iron and steel. If the top area of the piston the ring land area expands enough to contact the cylinder wall. the pistons if machined correctly have a reduced diameter in the ring land area. Has the block been bored and resurfaced? If so, did you check to see if the piston to deck height is right. Telltale evidence would be marking on the piston crowns. Rod length center to center can also lead to piston to head interference. The other area I would check is timing. detonation can do strange things and wouldn't likely be heard in the aircraft application. Hope this helps. John Mc ----- Original Message ----- From: <Doug413(at)aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Braking pistons in my Model A > > Gents, > > Does anyone know why pistons would break? I have broken 2 pistions in my > model A engine; one in flight. The aircraft has 100 hours. The pistons > which break tend to pull apart separating the bottom section from the top > section at the bottom of the ring groove area. The bore, ring end gap, and > piston clearance appear to be in spec. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Ed G.)
Date: May 11, 2001
Subject: 2" straps
Maybe this will help others avoid the problem I've had. I fabicated the 2" straps that run between the lift strut fittings by clamping everything in place on the fuselage and drilling the straps to line up with the lift strut fittings . worked great , so I thought. after finish work and painting I bolted everything together on the fuselage, looked great . When I put the final tightening on the bolts ( not excessive )the 2" straps bowed away from the fuselage ( they were being compresed ) I had to take it all apart and cut a 1/32" slice out of the middle of the straps and weld them back together WHAT A PAIN IN THE BUTT. I guess the wood compreses slightly when t bolts are tightened. How in the world are you supposed to fabricate a strap that takes this compression into consideration. Am I the only one that has had this problem. Ed G Frustrated in Fl. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2001
From: JOEL CARROLL <drcarroll_2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Braking pistons in my Model A
hi forged pistons? rod bent? some considerations. have pistons zyglow'ed hth. --- Doug413(at)aol.com wrote: > Doug413(at)aol.com > > Gents, > > Does anyone know why pistons would break? I have > broken 2 pistions in my > model A engine; one in flight. The aircraft has 100 > hours. The pistons > which break tend to pull apart separating the bottom > section from the top > section at the bottom of the ring groove area. The > bore, ring end gap, and > piston clearance appear to be in spec. Doug > Bryant Wichita Ks > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug413(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2001
Subject: Re: Braking pistons in my Model A
In a message dated 5/11/01 5:19:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jmcnarry(at)escape.ca writes: > Doug > Do the pistons break in the bottom of the oil ring groove? > Is there any sign of galling or metal transfer in the ring land area between > the rings? > > I have not had this happen to a Model A but I have seen other engines do it > and it usually is a result of the pistons fitted too tightly. > The expansion of aluminum is approximately three times that of iron and > steel. If the top area of the piston the ring land area expands enough to > contact the cylinder wall. the pistons if machined correctly have a reduced > diameter in the ring land area. > > Has the block been bored and resurfaced? If so, did you check to see if the > piston to deck height is right. Telltale evidence would be marking on the > piston crowns. Rod length center to center can also lead to piston to head > interference. The other area I would check is timing. detonation can do > strange things and wouldn't likely be heard in the aircraft application. > > Hope this helps. > John Mc > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Doug413(at)aol.com> > John, The pistons are made by Sterling and are one of the common brands for the model A's around here. They have large partial grooves below the ring grooves so there isn't as much metal joining the top of the piston to the skirt section of the piston. I sure don't like the look of that design. The breakage looks like a fatigue crack which forms across the top of the piston and progresses to the webb and finally separates the top from the bottom. Strange! I didn't notice any signs of galling or detonation. The plugs look good. The ring gaps were actually a little over spec (more gap) and they were chrome. The block is .040 over and to my knowledge has not been decked; plenty of clearance between the top of the piston and the alum (Daniel Price 6-1 head). Timing is 28 degrees BTDC, fixed. The first piston broke in flight at 75 hours and second one is cracked in the same manner and I found it on an inspection after checking the valve clearances at 100 hours. I believe the second one would have broken in just a few more minutes of operation. I am going to use ERDL pistons this time around. They are solid all the way around and appear much stronger than the Sterlings. both brands are cast. Thanks for the imput. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Sippola" <sippola(at)escape.ca>
Subject: Re: Braking pistons in my Model A
Date: May 12, 2001
Is there a ridge on the tops of the cylinder walls? This must be removed as a new set of rings will hit the ridge (the original rings wear with the cylinder wall so they don't do this) and tend to take off the top of the piston. I would suspect that pinging could also tend to crack the piston. I know from experience that it will eventually break up the top piston ring. Can't think of anything else off hand. Plse bear in mind I have zero experience with model A engines. Wayne Sippola ---------- > From: Doug413(at)aol.com > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Braking pistons in my Model A > Date: Thursday, May 10, 2001 9:03 PM > > > Gents, > > Does anyone know why pistons would break? I have broken 2 pistons in my > model A engine; one in flight. The aircraft has 100 hours. The pistons > which break tend to pull apart separating the bottom section from the top > section at the bottom of the ring groove area. The bore, ring end gap, and > piston clearance appear to be in spec. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca>
Subject: Re: Braking pistons in my Model A
Date: May 12, 2001
----- Original Message ----- From: <Doug413(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Braking pistons in my Model A Doug The ERDL pistons would be a better choice. You might want to browse through Grant MaClarens old site. I think it is still on line. There is an article there on a B engine using modern pistons from either Ford or Chevy I don't remeber which. Most engine rebuild shops have catalogs that list pistons and other parts by dimension. Perhaps you can find a forged piston with close enough compression height to work. The pin diameter can be matched up at the wrist pin with a steel sleeve. Good luck and let us know what you do. John > John, > > The pistons are made by Sterling and are one of the common brands for the > model A's around here. They have large partial grooves below the ring > grooves so there isn't as much metal joining the top of the piston to the > skirt section of the piston. I sure don't like the look of that design. > > The breakage looks like a fatigue crack which forms across the top of the > piston and progresses to the webb and finally separates the top from the > bottom. Strange! I didn't notice any signs of galling or detonation. The > plugs look good. The ring gaps were actually a little over spec (more gap) > and they were chrome. The block is .040 over and to my knowledge has not > been decked; plenty of clearance between the top of the piston and the alum > (Daniel Price 6-1 head). > > Timing is 28 degrees BTDC, fixed. The first piston broke in flight at 75 > hours and second one is cracked in the same manner and I found it on an > inspection after checking the valve clearances at 100 hours. I believe the > second one would have broken in just a few more minutes of operation. I am > going to use ERDL pistons this time around. They are solid all the way > around and appear much stronger than the Sterlings. both brands are cast. > Thanks for the imput. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Piet wood kits
Date: May 12, 2001
Gentlemen, There is something that you should be aware about regarding the Piet spruce kit from Jean Peters at Western A/C Supply and may be true for the next owner of that company. I believe the kits are for 3-piece wings only. I realize that most folks make the 3-piece wings, but some don't. Since I have access to a large hangar, my wing is a solid one-piece so his kit would not have worked for me. Another point just for info. I got all my spruce from Aircraft Spruce. When I ordered the long pieces - spars, longerons, leading edges, etc - they had to be shipped by truck. That order only cost $67 for the shipping. Very inexpensive I thought. Cheers Jeff in TX, despondent about the Leafs' loss to New Jersey but cheering wildly for the up-and-coming Raptors ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DonanClara(at)aol.com
Date: May 12, 2001
Subject: Re: Letter to EAA re: DAR's
In a message dated 05/11/2001 9:06:09 AM Central Daylight Time, kgardner(at)odu.edu writes: << on behalf of a very enthusiastic and talented group of builders, I am looking forward to your reply. Regards, Kip Gardner, EAA # 639841 >> Kip, an outstanding letter, well thought out and nicely presented. Even though Earl has acknowledged his awareness of the groundswell on this subject and has outlined all that Headquarters is doing, letters such as yours will be taken seriously and help the cause. Thanks for your efforts. Don Hicks EAA 1541 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pierson's" <pierson@pro-ns.net>
Subject: Re: Piet wood kits
Date: May 12, 2001
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet wood kits > > Gentlemen, > There is something that you should be aware about regarding the Piet spruce > kit from Jean Peters at Western A/C Supply and may be true for the next > owner of that company. I believe the kits are for 3-piece wings only. I > realize that most folks make the 3-piece wings, but some don't. Since I have > access to a large hangar, my wing is a solid one-piece so his kit would not > have worked for me. listers is there an advantage one way or another--one piece or three piece wing. dave p ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2001
From: Kirk & Laura Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com>
Subject: Re: EAA Book sale
Chris, Is is still possible to get in on the sale. I'm in Chapter 54 at Lake Elmo and no one is doing the sale and I don't have the time right now to pull it together. I'm interested in both the Flying and glider set and the Bingelis book set. Thanks Kirk > >In april and may, the EAA has their annual book sale. Any book that is in >their catalog is half price. The four Bingelis books go for $40 for the >set. The only caveat is that the order has to be made through your local >EAA chapter using a special order form. I administer this sale for EAA >chapter 25 here in Minnesota as part of my treasurer duties. If anyone >wants these books or others, including videos, just drop me a note and I >will get back to them when the sale info arrives. Delivery would be in >early June. Shipping would run about 2 dollars per book. I am sure the >eaa.org website has a book catalog on line so check there for the list. > >Half price is a pretty good deal especially when you see the regular price. > Flying and glider manuals for $15 for the whole set!!! > >Chris Bobka > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug413(at)aol.com
Date: May 13, 2001
Subject: Re: Braking pistons in my Model A
In a message dated 5/12/01 3:47:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jmcnarry(at)escape.ca writes: > The ERDL pistons would be a better choice. You might want to browse > through Grant MaClarens old site. I think it is still on line. There is an > article there on a B engine using modern pistons from either Ford or Chevy I > don't remeber which. Most engine rebuild shops have catalogs that list > pistons and other parts by dimension. Perhaps you can find a forged piston > with close enough compression height to work. The pin diameter can be > matched up at the wrist pin with a steel sleeve. Good luck and let us know > John, Thanks for the response. I have heard of using other pistons (forged), but didn't have the confidence I could choose a correct match. I will look into that and Grants webb sight. I havn't checked into Grants sight for quite a while. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rodger & Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Subject: Ref: Looking for fuselage profile drawings to tr;y color
schemes
Date: May 13, 2001
Jack Phillips wrote: "Hi Walt, WHile rummaging around the web last night, I stumbled across this site. Not sure what it does, but it appears to be just what you are looking for. Good luck, Jack" Ok Jack, I think you left out something. Rodger Piet in progress ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 13, 2001
Subject: Throttle Location
Hi Pieters, Would like some input as to the most efficient and comfortable position for the throttle. I am using a round push-pull with turn lock device. Don't know aircraft origin. Have sat in this empty bird trying to find the best location and I find it to be under the instrument panel about 3 to 4 inches below top longeron with the ball being forward of the face if the panel about 1 in. My carb arm is 2 in. Would appreciate hearing from some older Pieter who has been flying their plane for comments. I mean older only in respect to we kids who are still building. Corky...and HAPPY MOTHERS DAY TO ALL PIET MOTHERS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Throttle Location
Date: May 13, 2001
>Hi Pieters, Would like some input as to the most efficient and comfortable position for the throttle. I am using a round push-pull with turn lock device. Don't know aircraft origin. Have sat in this empty bird trying to find the best location and I find it to be under the instrument panel about 3 to 4 inches below top longeron with the ball being forward of the face if the panel about 1 in. My carb arm is 2 in. Would appreciate hearing from some older Pieter who has been flying their plane for comments. I mean older only in respect to we kids who are still building> I think that if you put it under the panel, you would pretty much hide the throttle linkage. That may present a problem. Mine is the same idea but aft of the panel. Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 13, 2001
Subject: Re: Throttle Location
You're probably right. I've been in the shop sitting in the bird since posting that question. Might just compromise and bring it aft a couple of inches. There just isn't too much room in that pit even tho I love my Piet. Thanks for taking your time to help. Corky in La where ALL mothers are happy 365 days a year. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2001
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Throttle Location
A good place is where you can reach it easy and at the same time rest your arm in the longeron. That will make a confortable and natural position. Saludos Gary Gower --- Michael Brusilow wrote: > Brusilow" > > Isablcorky(at)aol.com > > >Hi Pieters, > Would like some input as to the most efficient and > comfortable position for > the throttle. I am using a round push-pull with turn > lock device. Don't know > aircraft origin. > Have sat in this empty bird trying to find the best > location and I find it > to > be under the instrument panel about 3 to 4 inches > below top longeron with > the > ball being forward of the face if the panel about 1 > in. My carb arm is 2 > in. > Would appreciate hearing from some older Pieter who > has been flying their > plane for comments. I mean older only in respect to > we kids who are still > building> > > I think that if you put it under the panel, you > would pretty much hide the > throttle linkage. That may present a problem. Mine > is the same idea but aft > of the panel. > > Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Piet wood kits
Date: May 14, 2001
Dave, On your question of 1 piece vs 3 piece: The 1-piece is lighter than the 3-piece wing. I'm not sure about the exact amount, but I imagine 10-20 lbs. On the other hand, the 3-piece takes less room to build, and you're able to pull the wings and store the plane if you need to for some reason. I guess the 1-piece would also be quicker to build. Gary Meadows Spring, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug413(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2001
Subject: Re: Piet wood kits
In a message dated 5/14/01 7:30:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time, gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com writes: > On your question of 1 piece vs 3 piece: The 1-piece is lighter than the > 3-piece wing. I'm not sure about the exact amount, but I imagine 10-20 lbs. > On the other hand, the 3-piece takes less room to build, and you're able to > pull the wings and store the plane if you need to for some reason. > > Gents, I have a three piece on my first aircamper and have built both. In my opinion both are really good designs which perform very well overall. I just happen to have a set of parts per the plans for a three piece wing and the set including the hardware weighs approx 5 pounds (close anyway) on a bathroom scale. The three piece is a little more work to build and to rig as there needs to be (at least on mine) a cable break somewhere in the carry thru cable an in the drive cables, and the 2" alum wing root covers. I just completed the sixth airframe condition inspection (annual) and haven't had any trouble, actually, with any of the airframe. The ship now has 100 hours. I did not have room to build the one piece wing, so the three piece was the only option. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2001
From: Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: looking for fuselage profile drawings to try color
schemes OK, Walt we'll try this again. I found a site in the aircamper.no-i.p. website called Paintme. Here is the address: http://aircamper.no-ip.com/acimg/paintme/ Try that and see if it has what you need. Good Luck, Jack NX899JP, finishing up the control system installation, then on to the landing gear. ------Original Message------ From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: looking for fuselage profile drawings to try color schemes Does anyone have side view sketches of the Piet to try out color schemes? Or paint programs? thanks walt ----------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Finding Replicraft Aviation phone number
Date: May 16, 2001
Does anyone have the new phone number/fax/email for Replicraft Aviation? Their web site says they moved to Homosossa Springs, Florida effective May 15th, but gives no forwarding address, phone, etc. I know moves are tumultuous but I sure need some lift strut fittings to press on with my wing construction. Wing in progress. Thanks for the help. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KGardner(at)odu.edu
Subject: Re: Finding Replicraft Aviation phone number
Date: May 16, 2001
05/16/2001 09:53:49 AM Dave, I have a friend (old R/C buddy) who lives in Homosassa, so I know the area code is 352. Beyond that, I have no information. He's retired, so I'll drop him a line & see if he can maybe hunt something up. Cheers! Kip Gardner ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Finding Replicraft Aviation phone number
Date: May 16, 2001
From: KGardner(at)odu.edu Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Finding Replicraft Aviation phone number Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 09:53:49 -0400 05/16/2001 09:53:49 AM -- Pietenpol-List message posted by: KGardner(at)odu.edu Dave, I have a friend (old R/C buddy) who lives in Homosassa, so I know the area code is 352. Beyond that, I have no information. He's retired, so I'll drop him a line see if he can maybe hunt something up. Cheers! Kip Gardner Thanks, I'll look forward to hearing from you. Dave Boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KGardner(at)odu.edu
Subject: Re: Finding Replicraft Aviation phone number
Date: May 16, 2001
05/16/2001 10:07:05 AM Dave, As a follow-up, I checked their web site & it's still up & running at the NJ address, no mention of a move on their main page or contact page. The e-mail address was: repliaviation(at)aol.com. Don't know if this helps or confuses things. Kip Gardner ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Finding Replicraft Aviation phone number
Date: May 16, 2001
From: KGardner(at)odu.edu Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Finding Replicraft Aviation phone number Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 10:06:59 -0400 05/16/2001 10:07:05 AM -- Pietenpol-List message posted by: KGardner(at)odu.edu Dave, As a follow-up, I checked their web site it's still up running at the NJ address, no mention of a move on their main page or contact page. The e-mail address was: repliaviation(at)aol.com. Don't know if this helps or confuses things. Kip Gardner Kip, That is the same info I got from the Replicraft Web Site, but none of it seems to be current. Perhaps someone on the Piet List has knowledge of their address, phone or email. Would your friend in Florida be able to look in directory assistance? I tried that via long distance but got no help. I have to believe they have a phone. Perhaps it is just too soon after the move.... Thanks for responding. Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
"piet discussion"
Subject: Didn't I see a site where you could search available "N"
numbers?
Date: May 16, 2001
I wanted to find a unique one that I've been thinking about, and wanted to see if it was available. Anyone know of the site that I think I saw? thanks walt ----------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Didn't I see a site where you could search available
"N" numbers?
Date: May 16, 2001
You will find reserved numbers and N-numbers at http://www1.drive.net/evird.acgi$pass*36110787!_h-www.landings.com/_landings /pages/search.html Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Didn't I see a site where you could search available "N" numbers? I wanted to find a unique one that I've been thinking about, and wanted to see if it was available. Anyone know of the site that I think I saw? thanks walt ----------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2001
From: Marty Hammersmith <baleco(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: FFP Didn't I see a site where you could search available
"N" numbers? Hi Walt, You can do that from landings.com. They have a number of searchable databases and links. walt evans wrote: > > I wanted to find a unique one that I've been thinking about, and wanted to > see if it was available. Anyone know of the site that I think I saw? > thanks > walt > ----------------------------------------------------- > > : > Check out the Fishnet Hangar at... > http://www.lairdlind.com/fishnet.htm > Submit a picture of your Fishnet project to Laird Lind > lairdl(at)airmail.net > > == ================================================================ > EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxjdq.aVCgrq > Or send an email To: Fishnet-unsubscribe(at)topica.com > This email was sent to: baleco(at)worldnet.att.net > > T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. > http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01 > == ================================================================ -- Marty Hammersmith http://www.geocities.com/mhammersmith ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2001
From: "Rollin Young" <rollin.young(at)acsalaska.net>
Subject: Re: FFP Didn't I see a site where you
could search available "N" numbers? You might try this location (if this works). Good luck. Rollin <http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/DEFIMG.ASP> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Cockpit coaming padding
Date: May 16, 2001
Mike, In the photos you sent to me some time ago, I especially admired the way that you handled the padding on the forward part of the cockpit coamings. I am now to this point in construction and still haven't figured it out. Could you briefly describe how you did it, materials, etc. and how you fastened them to the aluminum? Your help would be much appreciated. Thanks, John Dilatush, Blunder Engineering dilatush(at)amigo.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Cockpit coaming padding
John- I fitted 1.5" diam (I think) split foam pipe insulation over the cockpit aluminum edges. Cuts with household scissors. It's black in color-from your hardware store/Home Depot, etc. The I purchased thin brown deerskin leather from a local leather co. You could easily use fabric backed vinyl which most upholstry stores sell or fabric stores. It comes in many colors and is still thin enough to work the curves. I purchased a grommet kit from this leather shop----they sell grommets in many colors and sizes too. Easy to use. I bought a fabric hole punch- or leather punch which has several different size hole punches which you can rotate in position to use the size you want. I cut curved lengths of leather wide enough to wrap around the combing and then hem or seam a 1/4" or so edge on either side of the cockpit aluminum. I used contact cement to fold these seams over rather than stitching. Next I punched or drilled holes around the cockpit alum. where the leather seams would meet when stretched snug over the pipe insulation. I installed grommets on both sides (inside the cockpit and out on the leather strip/strips) and then used Wal-Mart brown leather replacement shoe lace to weave back and forth thru the grommets and holes in the cockpit alum. Please do look in Tony Bingelis books, really- to see his great sketches on this subject too. I lack in verbal skills to pass along how this goes, but Tony gives a few other options. He says (I think) to use garden hose if you like.....but I found this to be too small in diam. for my liking and does not give any. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nick Harris" <nharris25(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Fw: usefull load
Date: May 17, 2001
----- Original Message ----- From: Nick Harris Subject: usefull load hi, i have been researching the pietenpol and am interested in building one. i am 6'4" 240 lbs and my flying compantion is 6'3" 200 lbs, are we too big for the plane? the specs said that the usefull load is 385. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: Cockpit coaming padding
Date: May 17, 2001
I did a similar treatment to mine. About the time I did the coamings I had purchased Tony's books, and read about pilot head injuries hitting stationary objects. I hopped in the cockpit and realized that it was more than likely that I would hit the edge of the sheet metal that forms the top of the fuse, so when I did the coaming I added a piece of 3/4" dia ABS flexible sprinkler pipe as the first layer, then the foam pipe insulation, then the man-made leather. I didn't use grommets, but left extra width and tucked the leather in under the hose, and used leather string right through holes in the aluminum. Worked great too. steve E. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cockpit coaming padding John- I fitted 1.5" diam (I think) split foam pipe insulation over the cockpit aluminum edges. Cuts with household scissors. It's black in color-from your hardware store/Home Depot, etc. The I purchased thin brown deerskin leather from a local leather co. You could easily use fabric backed vinyl which most upholstry stores sell or fabric stores. It comes in many colors and is still thin enough to work the curves. I purchased a grommet kit from this leather shop----they sell grommets in many colors and sizes too. Easy to use. I bought a fabric hole punch- or leather punch which has several different size hole punches which you can rotate in position to use the size you want. I cut curved lengths of leather wide enough to wrap around the combing and then hem or seam a 1/4" or so edge on either side of the cockpit aluminum. I used contact cement to fold these seams over rather than stitching. Next I punched or drilled holes around the cockpit alum. where the leather seams would meet when stretched snug over the pipe insulation. I installed grommets on both sides (inside the cockpit and out on the leather strip/strips) and then used Wal-Mart brown leather replacement shoe lace to weave back and forth thru the grommets and holes in the cockpit alum. Please do look in Tony Bingelis books, really- to see his great sketches on this subject too. I lack in verbal skills to pass along how this goes, but Tony gives a few other options. He says (I think) to use garden hose if you like.....but I found this to be too small in diam. for my liking and does not give any. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: re: cockpit coaming padding
Date: May 17, 2001
Mike, Thanks for your prompt reply. I attempted to make a similar mockup but failed because I wasn't smart enough to cut the leather in a curved pattern. Sometimes if brains were boulevards I couldn't make a back alley! John, Blunder Engineering dilatush(at)amigo.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: United Kingdom Piets PHOTO page......
Fellers---- I just stumbled upon this neat photo page of Piets from the UK. Mike C. http://www.flyerworld.com/shenty/ukaircampers/photogallery.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 18, 2001
Subject: Painting parts
Pieters, If any of you old builders were here I would ask you, how is the best way to paint the inside cockpit METAL parts. Push pull cables, gas tank, Alum, 4130 control tubes etc. Would appreciate your know how on this subject. I have plenty of zinc chromate and rust o leum. But, is there something better. Corky in the flying South ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Vertical card compasses
Date: May 18, 2001
Hey everyone Does anyone out there have any experience with a vertical card compass in a Piet. I'm trying to buy the expensive stuff a little at a time while I'm building. They say vertical card compasses are sensitve to magnetic interferance such as the cabane struts on each side of a piet cockpit. But the vertical card is nice for figuring runway directions like a H.I. So if anyone knows if they will work surrounded by cabane struts please let me know. Thanks Ed G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Vertical card compasses
Date: May 18, 2001
Hey everyone < Does anyone out there have any experience with a vertical card compass in a Piet. I'm trying to buy the expensive stuff a little at a time while I'm building. They say vertical card compasses are sensitve to magnetic interferance such as the cabane struts on each side of a piet cockpit. But the vertical card is nice for figuring runway directions like a H.I. So if anyone knows if they will work surrounded by cabane struts please let me know.> Thanks Ed G. Ed, do you really need a vertical card compass in a Piet? . I have done a lot of Piet flying, & the magnetic compass works fine. Fact is, most Piet flying is IFR ( I follow roads ). Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rodger & Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Subject: Painting Parts
Date: May 18, 2001
Corky, On painting the metal parts, the best process would be powder coating, next best would be sprayed epoxy paint. Zinc chromate and rust-o-leum are right up there too. However, the lighter colors such as white and light grey are better than darker colors such as black or maroon because the lighter colors show up any hairline cracking that may (heaven forbid) show up down the line. With this in mind, motor mounts would fall into this area for light color painting. If you use rust-o-leum, or is it one of the other brands, read the label closely, I beleive that the white paint doesn't have the rust inhibiting feature and they reccomend that to fully inhibit rust, paint with another color and then top coat with white. Anyway, be careful not to pickle your liver and addle your brain while painting, use a good mask and paint outside if you can. Rodger In the Texas Hill Country that's pushing 95 deg. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2001
From: Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Painting parts
Hi Corky, You and I are at about the same stage. I just primed all my metal parts with PolyFiber's Epoxy Primer, planning to then put a topcoat of their Poly-Tone paint on all the parts that will show, like the joysticks, rudder bar, brake pedals, etc. I e-mailed them to ask how long I needed to let the primer cure before applying the Poly-Tone. Their answer was "about 15 minutes". It seems that Poly-Tone is fine for fabric, but to get it to stick to metal it needs to go on while the primer is still tacky. Probably any good enamel will work for the topcoat, but I sure recommend their epoxy primer to prime any metal surface. Once it's cured, the only way to get it off is to sandblast it, and even that takes a long time. I'll have to spray another light coat of primer and then immediately put on a coat of Poly-Tone this weekend. I have another question in to them as to whether I should just use enamel on the metal parts, after priming. They haven't answered yet - they're in California and get up much later than we do here in North Carolina. I'll let you know. Jack, all primed and ready in NC ------Original Message------ From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Painting parts Pieters, If any of you old builders were here I would ask you, how is the best way to paint the inside cockpit METAL parts. Push pull cables, gas tank, Alum, 4130 control tubes etc. Would appreciate your know how on this subject. I have plenty of zinc chromate and rust o leum. But, is there something better. Corky in the flying South ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2001
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com>
Subject: Re: Painting parts
Corky, I would recommend powder coating. Inexpensive to set-up and not as messy as painting. Very tough finish. Greg Cardinal >>> 05/18 7:03 AM >>> Pieters, If any of you old builders were here I would ask you, how is the best way to paint the inside cockpit METAL parts. Push pull cables, gas tank, Alum, 4130 control tubes etc. Would appreciate your know how on this subject. I have plenty of zinc chromate and rust o leum. But, is there something better. Corky in the flying South ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: usefull load
Date: May 18, 2001
----- Original Message ----- From: Nick Harris Subject: usefull load hi, i have been researching the pietenpol and am interested in building one. i am 6'4" 240 lbs and my flying compantion is 6'3" 200 lbs, are we too big for the plane? the specs said that the usefull load is 385. Nick, My son is 6' 6" and he fit in the front cockpit for a ride last year at Broadhead. Of course he is 19, thin, wiry and flexible so that makes some difference, but he does fit. I'm 6' 2" and 59, not as flexible but I still got in. I'm planning a front door for my Piet. Someone else may speak to the weight although I've heard others say the Piet will fly a 240 pounder. It may require other than a Model A engine however. Dave Boyd, Champaign. IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: painting
Date: May 18, 2001
I painted all the metal parts including the cowl, gear, struts, etc with can spray paint & primer bought at Kmart. Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Painting parts
Date: May 18, 2001
Corky, Just something that I wanted to share about paint. On my first project, anywhere that wasn't fabric, I used Krylon or one of those good spray paints. Even though they held up well in normal use, if gas got drizzled on it , it would gum up and be ruined. What I found for my Pietenpol brackets, is a Rust-Oleum Epoxy Paint. Paint it , let it air dry a little while, then put it in the oven for about 30 min @ 250f. When it cools, it's hard as hell, and gas won't touch it. Whole name is... Rust-Oleum Appliance Enamel Hard Gloss Epoxy (shows a kitchen scene on front of can) Don't know how many colors it comes in...there is at least white and black. Home Depot here I come again! walt ----------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Painting parts > > Pieters, > If any of you old builders were here I would ask you, how is the best way to > paint the inside cockpit METAL parts. Push pull cables, gas tank, Alum, 4130 > control tubes etc. Would appreciate your know how on this subject. I have > plenty of zinc chromate and rust o leum. But, is there something better. > Corky in the flying South > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 18, 2001
Subject: Re: painting
I'm going with what I have on the shelves, Thanks. Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2001
From: "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Painting parts
Hammerite paint products work great too. They have micro glass flakes in the paint, which when baked yields a ceramic like coating. Cheers, Warren ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: paint
Date: May 18, 2001
I painted all the metal parts including the cowl, gear, struts, etc with krylon spray paint & primer . I had no problem with paint deterioration. It has been 12 years now. Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: paint
Date: May 18, 2001
I've had good luck using Krylon primer ("red oxide") & "satin black" paint on some bicycle frames I've built -- one of the last ones has been in red primer for the last 8 years! (guess you could say it's "primed to go"!! ;-) Not as tough as powder coat, but sure easy to touch up. Mike C. Pretty Prairie, KS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug413(at)aol.com
Date: May 18, 2001
Subject: Re: Vertical card compasses
In a message dated 5/18/01 6:30:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com writes: > Does anyone out there have any experience with a vertical card compass > in a Piet. I'm trying to buy the expensive stuff a little at a time while > I'm building. They say vertical card compasses are sensitve to magnetic > interferance such as the cabane struts on each side of a piet cockpit. But > the vertical card is nice for figuring runway directions like a H.I. So if > anyone knows if they will work surrounded by cabane struts please let me > Ed, With one hundred hours now on my Piet, I have found that my regular whiskey type compass bounces around so much, I just use it for a general direction as distinct from an actual precise heading. The rest is pilotage and loose dead reckoning. Perhaps the vertical compass card is more stable, I' m not sure. I have been flying formation with a couple of cubs lately and I ask them if they ever use their compasses and the answer was jokingly "what compass". My opinion is that the vertical card would fine and certainly a builder's choice, but not necessary. I have also found for myself that the simpler and more old timey I keep the airplane, the more I enjoy that kind of flying; hard to explain. I don't think I would go spend a lot of money for a card compass without testing one first. I built my plane with good equipment, but scrounged around enough that I don't have very much money in to it Again, these are opinions. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2001
From: david kowell <dkowell(at)cstone.net>
Subject: Re: Painting parts
jack where are u in nc david kowell Jack Phillips wrote: > > Hi Corky, > > You and I are at about the same stage. I just primed all my metal parts > with PolyFiber's Epoxy Primer, planning to then put a topcoat of their > Poly-Tone paint on all the parts that will show, like the joysticks, rudder > bar, brake pedals, etc. I e-mailed them to ask how long I needed to let the > primer cure before applying the Poly-Tone. Their answer was "about 15 > minutes". It seems that Poly-Tone is fine for fabric, but to get it to > stick to metal it needs to go on while the primer is still tacky. Probably > any good enamel will work for the topcoat, but I sure recommend their epoxy > primer to prime any metal surface. Once it's cured, the only way to get it > off is to sandblast it, and even that takes a long time. > > I'll have to spray another light coat of primer and then immediately put on > a coat of Poly-Tone this weekend. I have another question in to them as to > whether I should just use enamel on the metal parts, after priming. They > haven't answered yet - they're in California and get up much later than we > do here in North Carolina. I'll let you know. > > Jack, all primed and ready in NC > > ------Original Message------ > From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com > To: pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com > Sent: May 18, 2001 1:03:03 PM GMT > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Painting parts > > > Pieters, > If any of you old builders were here I would ask you, how is the best way to > paint the inside cockpit METAL parts. Push pull cables, gas tank, Alum, 4130 > control tubes etc. Would appreciate your know how on this subject. I have > plenty of zinc chromate and rust o leum. But, is there something better. > Corky in the flying South > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
"Fishnet"
Subject: get flight time while waiting for the glue to dry
Date: May 19, 2001
Something to do while the T88 dries. http://www.flypower.com walt ----------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Williams" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
"John Greenlee" , "Mike Cuy" , "Pietenpol-List Digest Server"
Subject: Piet's and "A" s
Date: May 19, 2001
It's been a GREAT DAY!!! I borrowed a Wico X magneto from my engine rebuilder yesterday, installed it, timed it and wired it. Today I wheeled the crate out of the garage and fired that sucker up! It all works! I'm here to tell ya' that all the stuff they say is absolutely true. The engine stayed on those wimpy little mounts and ran just smooth as silk. The water temp never got above 175. The "noise" is pure aeroplane and the prop pushed enough air to make my ears flap. I also have the requisite oil leaks and the head that I'm using for break-in has a hairline crack that mists everything with pleasantly warm water. WHAT A GREAT DAY!! So...........stick with it everybody. Wow, is it ever worth it! If I was to die right now, I'd go happy. Now, after spending nearly a month trying to sort out the engine problems, maybe I can finish my wings and get this heap together and in the air. See Ya' Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TomTravis(at)aol.com
Date: May 19, 2001
Subject: Re: Vertical card compasses
Ed, I've put vertical card compasses in other planes I've owned . They don't have any real advantage over the standard mag compass and are subject to the same errors. I'll stick with the plain old whiskey compass. Tom Travis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 19, 2001
Subject: Re: Vertical card compasses
Pieters, I've seen references of whiskey compasses. Would someone please explain to this ole out of pocket pilot just what that is. Corky in La where we have and consume lots of it. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rodger & Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Subject: Re: Vertical card compasses
Date: May 19, 2001
Corky wrote: Pieters, I've seen references of whiskey compasses. Would someone please explain to this ole out of pocket pilot just what that is. Corky in La where we have and consume lots of it. Corky, It's the old magnetic compass you've see a hundred times. And it is really filled with kerosene or even alcohol, hense the term "whiskey compass". They're not so bad, just a few quirks, and even work....somewhat. Even Lindberg had one in his plane. Of course he also had a state of the art earth induction compass too. Rodger Piet in progress... which has a "whiskey compass" in the instrument panel. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 19, 2001
Subject: Re: Vertical card compasses
Rodger, Reason for my interest is I need some juice in my compass. Contacted supply company for some compass and was told it is no longer mfg'd. He suggested kerosene which I didn't have but I've plenty of Old Charter 86 pr, Wild Turkey 101pr, or even "down on the Bayou" 190 pr. My compass seems to be about half full. Please advise with filling instructions. Corky in La by the still. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2001
From: Larry Neal <llneal(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Vertical card compasses
Corky, Kerosene is better. Get a bunch and fill a bucket, Take the back plate off and rinse out with kero. Don't touch the mechanism at all, if the numbers are yellowed, it won't wipe off anyway. Soak everything under a good depth of kero and turn the housing around to remove bubbles and wash out any crud. Screw the backplate back on while everything's immersed. This removes any possibility of annoying bubbles. Use gloves for all of this if you can and wash your hands. Be sure to use a new gasket. You can get them for a couple of bucks at Aircraft Spruce or cut one from a smooth piece of tire tube. If the compass is older than a dozen years, or you suspect the leak is on the front, be sure to replace the lens gasket as well. You can get special "compass fluid" from the same place, but if you do, make sure it's not the red colored stuff. If your compass doesn't work after this it's not my fault, though I can help you out with the "hammer tuning" repair method. Larry ------------- Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote: > > Rodger, > Reason for my interest is I need some juice in my compass. Contacted supply > company for some compass and was told it is no longer mfg'd. He suggested > kerosene which I didn't have but I've plenty of Old Charter 86 pr, Wild > Turkey 101pr, or even "down on the Bayou" 190 pr. My compass seems to be > about half full. Please advise with filling instructions. > Corky in La by the still. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Vertical card compasses
Date: May 19, 2001
Buy some clear lamp oil! DO NOT use alcohol, Whiskey Compass is a misnomer! Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh ----- Original Message ----- From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical card compasses Rodger, Reason for my interest is I need some juice in my compass. Contacted supply company for some compass and was told it is no longer mfg'd. He suggested kerosene which I didn't have but I've plenty of Old Charter 86 pr, Wild Turkey 101pr, or even "down on the Bayou" 190 pr. My compass seems to be about half full. Please advise with filling instructions. Corky in La by the still. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Compass Fluid Testing
Date: May 20, 2001
Corky, I've used the kits with the "compass fluid" and it's easy. Kerosene is fine, and I've even heard of using Varsol. You've gotten good advice on this from everyone else. But..... Do not under any circumstances put your good sippin whiskey in it without having a qualified "whiskey compass fixer" test your fluid! Let me know, I'll be up to test all of your the fluid candidates prior to the actual repair! I like pieces of sausage on Ritz crackers to go along with my fluid sampling - whats compass fluid without a nosh?! I hear they make some good compass fluid in Kentucky! Gary In Hot, Dry Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 19, 2001
Subject: Re: Compass Fluid Testing
Gary, Since I have about 10 gals of Varsol on hand, why not? I'll probably never look at the damn thing anyway. Most cotton rows run N&S or E&W. Doubt I'll shoot any missed app's in a Piet. Corky,NX41CC, in La ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: two thank you's
Date: May 19, 2001
To Steve Eldridge One more coat of paint to go on the fuse and it is lookin good. Sherwin Williams is quite a bargain, $30 to finish the fuse and tail section. I was able to work at home with no vapors to upset the wifee. Great suggestion . To Mike Cuy I finally got a chance to sit down and watch your video. I got to see parts of it a Sun n Fun but didn't have time to watch it thru and absorb it all. I would recomend it to anyone for some entertainment while making ribs (sitka or pork) and for inspiration. I'll take it to SNF again next year. Thanks Dick Navratil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Vertical card compasses
Date: May 20, 2001
The old timers by me reccommend lighter fluid. Comes in the nifty squeeze bottle at your local Wa Wa. walt ----------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical card compasses > > Rodger, > Reason for my interest is I need some juice in my compass. Contacted supply > company for some compass and was told it is no longer mfg'd. He suggested > kerosene which I didn't have but I've plenty of Old Charter 86 pr, Wild > Turkey 101pr, or even "down on the Bayou" 190 pr. My compass seems to be > about half full. Please advise with filling instructions. > Corky in La by the still. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2001
Subject: Ash Landing gear beam
From: Chris Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com>
Well, I sat there for 3 weeks staring at the ash landing gear beam/front seat back assembly before I glued it in the fuselage. Making sure everything was in the right place, the right size and the right shape. Every thing fit great. Except I just discovered I had forgotten to taper the 1 inch ash down to 3/4 inch. Now it's glued in there good and solid, T88 is very good that way. Is there any problem with leaving it 1 inch or do I get out the saw (again) and remove the ash bock. Has any one left there ash blocks 1" thick. Will the bolt heads interfere with my feet on the rudder bar? Chris Sacramento, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Ash Landing gear beam
Date: May 20, 2001
Chris, I did the same thing. I just moved the holes up on the landing gear mount so it would clear. Carl Please visit my website at www.megsinet.net/skycarl -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris Tracy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ash Landing gear beam Well, I sat there for 3 weeks staring at the ash landing gear beam/front seat back assembly before I glued it in the fuselage. Making sure everything was in the right place, the right size and the right shape. Every thing fit great. Except I just discovered I had forgotten to taper the 1 inch ash down to 3/4 inch. Now it's glued in there good and solid, T88 is very good that way. Is there any problem with leaving it 1 inch or do I get out the saw (again) and remove the ash bock. Has any one left there ash blocks 1" thick. Will the bolt heads interfere with my feet on the rudder bar? Chris Sacramento, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Copy of: EAA Binglis books
---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Christian Bobka, 74373,442 DATE: 5/18/01 12:40 AM RE: Copy of: EAA Binglis books Greg, I was going to jump on the list and make an announcement tonight. I guess this be it! The Bingelis books, four of them, go for 50% off of the list price for the set of 80 dollars (so forty bucks good price eh?). Throw in another 6 dollars for shipping. If you don't want the set then they are 12.50 a piece plus shipping. I also advise you to get the wood construction techniques book and video (Bill Rewey building his Piet) for an additional 12 dollars plus shipping (maybe another 2 dollars) and the welding book and video for an additional 12 dollars plus shipping (maybe another two dollars). Finally, the Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook is advised for the FAA paperwork info for another 7.50 plus a dollar for so for shipping. Flying and Glider Manual reprints are 3.50 a piece or 15 dollars for the set of five, plus shipping. The sale is "50% off any item in the EAA Book/Video Catalog" so if you can dig it up on the web and want other stuff, let me know. I would need the catalog item number and name if it is oddball stuff so I do not order the wrong thing. Before you send me anything, advise me what you want by email at bobka(at)compuserve.com. Then I will come up with an estimated shipping cost and advise you by email what amount should be sent. I impose a deadline of June 20th for check in my hand. Any extra postage sent will be refunded. The more you order, the cheaper the average price per item will be. I will take delivery of the big shipment form EAA HQ and then mail out everyone's orders. I will be using USPS Media rate with delivery confirmation (to protect me from someone claiming they never received the stuff) only. I hope to have everything distributed by the end of July but it is up to the EAA HQ to get the stuff to me promptly. I will mail it out within a day or two of receiving it from HQ. All sales will be through the EAA Chapter that I am treasurer of so make the check payable to "EAA Chapter 25" and mail to me at: Christian Bobka 13532 Findlay Avenue Apple Valley, MN 55124-8064 612 207 3762 is my phone. Check out the EAA25.com website to verify that I am indeed the treasurer. I am doing this because I am a good guy and want to see the sun obscured by waves of Pietenpols flying over head. I am not making any money off this. All sales will be final. Take your time and do it right!! "Once in a lifetime opportunities only come once or twice in a lifetime" - Archie Bunker Be aware that this sale is exclusive to the EAA chapters only. Only one order per chapter on the special order form mailed to the chapter presidents. If you send direct to EAA HQ, they will not honor these prices but they will charge your credit card for the full price. Don't work outside the system. Finally, use a Technical Counselor!! More on this later. Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Vertical Card Compass
Most people that I know of that tried these out gave up on them. They would stick all the time so they never really knew which way they were going. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DonanClara(at)aol.com
Date: May 20, 2001
Subject: Re: Vertical card compasses
In a message dated 05/19/2001 7:45:04 PM Central Daylight Time, Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes: << Would someone please explain to this ole out of pocket pilot just what that is. Corky in La where we have and consume lots of it. >> Alky, Corky, Alky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rodger & Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Subject: Re: Vertical card compasses
Date: May 20, 2001
Corky wrote: "My compass seems to be about half full. Please advise with filling instructions. Corky in La by the still." Corky, the filling drill goes like this; In a container larger enough to put both your hands and the compass, fill deep enough with appropriate liquid to cover the compass. There should be a cap screw on the compass which will allow the compass to be filled, remove the cap screw and pour out all the old liquid. There should be a seal on the cap and this should be replaced. Submerge the compass in the appropriate liquid and twist and turn to get all the air out. Keeping the compass under the liquid, replace the cap screw and tighten sequrely Remove the compass and dry off. Dispose of the remaining liquid as is fitting. One thing to keep in mind is that the replacement liquid should be clear so that would rule out any amber liquid of what ever proof. If the 190 proof liquid is clear it would work and provide a good story to go with your "whiskey compass". Rodger Piet in progress ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Vertical card compasses
Date: May 21, 2001
NEVER USE ALCOHOL. If your compass is only half full then there is a leak. My best bet says you had better replace the diaphragm. Be careful of the screws. They are soft brass so don't over tighten them. The refill procedure below works very well except that you will have fluid running out of the compensation chamber for a while making it difficult to check for leaks. Unless the front glass is leaking, don't mess with it. Use a Q-tip to clean from the back while you are replacing the diaphragm. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rodger & Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical card compasses <childsway@indian-creek.net> Corky wrote: "My compass seems to be about half full. Please advise with filling instructions. Corky in La by the still." Corky, the filling drill goes like this; In a container larger enough to put both your hands and the compass, fill deep enough with appropriate liquid to cover the compass. There should be a cap screw on the compass which will allow the compass to be filled, remove the cap screw and pour out all the old liquid. There should be a seal on the cap and this should be replaced. Submerge the compass in the appropriate liquid and twist and turn to get all the air out. Keeping the compass under the liquid, replace the cap screw and tighten sequrely Remove the compass and dry off. Dispose of the remaining liquid as is fitting. One thing to keep in mind is that the replacement liquid should be clear so that would rule out any amber liquid of what ever proof. If the 190 proof liquid is clear it would work and provide a good story to go with your "whiskey compass". Rodger Piet in progress ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Williams" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: Jury strut mounts
Date: May 21, 2001
I'm wrestling with a dilemma and need some input so I can make a decision. The aluminum lift (sic) struts that I'm using are stiff as I-beams and I doubt if I could bend them if I suspended them between two sawhorses and jumped on them. So, why in the world would I even need jury struts?? Question #2 is: if I do decide to put in jury struts, how should the fittings be attached to the spars? I know that NO HOLES in a spar is the best, holes in the center are next best, and holes toward the edges are least desireable. Did those of you who have already done this have straps that run to the center of the spar or are yours anchored toward the bottom edge? I looked at a site showing the Piets in England and most of them had no jury struts. One ship had them only on the front strut. Does anyone have first-hand knowledge of a lift strut failure from landing loads or negative G's in flight? I know that I've only heard conjecture and BHP stating "better use jerry struts", but he was talking about the more modern streamlined steel struts that are pretty flexible and nobody I have met has told me that they actually know of a failure. So- I'd appreciate inputs although my inclination right now is to not use them. Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nick Harris" <nharris25(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Fw: pietenpol in Aurora, MO
Date: May 21, 2001
----- Original Message ----- From: Nick Harris Subject: pietenpol in Aurora, MO Who owns the Pietenpol in Aurora? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Cotton Rows & Corky
Corky-- Like Doug Bryant said, once you get used to this old time flying with no radio junk in your ears, no huge checklist to follow, and flying by pilotage, it becomes more and more appealing. I feel for the guys who need (due to airspace requirements) electric and transponders, etc. I've got a WWII Bendix compass in my Piet and I hardly, if ever, use it. The roads here (and corn fields) run N-S and E-W. If I have to fly diagonally I just point and go, the railroad tracks, small towns, and names on water towers keep you on track. Things happen so slowly in a Piet that it's easy to change course, look at your chart, pick out landmarks. Fun, really. With GPS and all, I'd only use a compass if I was really lost, and then I'm not sure how much help it would be. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 21, 2001
Subject: Re: Cotton Rows & Corky
Mike, All I asked was whether I could use a little "down on the bayou" 190 proof to fill my airpath. This thing has gone beyond city limits, the Pieters are now telling me how to read a compass and/or flying by hind sight. I think I'll just leave it half full and GO. Corky down on the bayou in La ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 21, 2001
Subject: Re: Cotton Rows & Corky
However, when one crosses a large expanse of water one should have a compass that swings in the correct direction. With 30 gal of petrol in a Piet. What do you think could happen? Corky the dreamer in La ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Fw: pietenpol in Aurora, MO
According to Doc Mosher's Pietenpol Directory (which is great.....and still available from Doc.) there's Mitch Burns who has a Piet in Brookfield, MO. A C-65, 350MB. 21397 Hwy M. 64628. There's Mark Anderson in Bates City, MO....A Scout by Bob Rockford in St. Louis.... a Piet by Wilbur Volker also in St. Louis, Phil Kapp in Neosho, MO, Kim Stricker, GN-1 in Jackson, MO, another GN-1 Kevin Hueser, KC, MO, AHA------Here it is.....Duane Stockton, RR3 Box 160, Aurora, MO 65605 ! Chester Davis, Piedmont, MO, and others I may have missed. Ok-----you other guys interested now ??? Here is the man: Doc Mosher, 1071 Meadow Lane, Neenah, WI 54956 or 920-727-1534, docshop(at)TDS.net Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Cotton Rows & Corky
> >Mike, >All I asked was whether I could use a little "down on the bayou" 190 proof to >fill my airpath. This thing has gone beyond city limits. Sorry Corky-------we just like you :)))) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KGardner(at)odu.edu
Subject: Re: Cotton Rows & Corky
Date: May 21, 2001
05/21/2001 11:18:14 AM Y'know Corky, what with all that talk of floatation & 30 gal of gas, etc. that you were posting a couple of weeks ago, i figured ccotton fields might be a tad sparse where you were headed. If it were me, I'd fix the compass, but then I have this obsession with knowing more-or-less where I am most of the time. Kip ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KGardner(at)odu.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: pietenpol in Aurora, MO
Date: May 21, 2001
05/21/2001 11:20:15 AM BTW guys, you get the owner's directory as part of the deal when you join the Brodhead Pietenpol Association at $10.00 per year. Kip ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2001
From: Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Jury strut mounts
Hi Larry, I did a little stress analysis on my Piet because I was asking the same questions you are. What I found was that with streamline 4130 steel lift struts, the negative "G" load required to cause the struts to buckle and fold up was only -1.4 "g"s. I wrote a letter Grant MacLaren which he publihsed in the BPA newsletter, I think in July '96 or somewhere around there. Of course, there are a lot of assumptions there. I was assuming a certain cross section of strut material, and the plane at gross weight, etc. I don't know the cross section of your struts, but in general aluminum is only about 1/3 as stiff as steel. 1.4 negative "g"s is not a lot - moderate turbulence can provide that. If you are using aluminum or wood lift struts I would for sure add the jury struts, or only fly straight and level on calm days. You are correct that the mounting hols should optimally go through the center of the spar, and that is probably what I will do with mine, but the struts themselves and their attachment can be pretty light. All they are doing is preventing any sideways displacement of the lift strut when it is loaded in compression. I wouldn't base engineering judgements on what other Pietenpols have done. I've seen a lot of Pietenpols (and flown a few) and the quality of work varies from outstanding down to just plain scary. If you look around at other contemporary aircraft designs, you'll find very few without jury struts, with the notable exceptions of metal wing Cessnas (my Cessna 140 has jury struts) and Luscombes. Both of those have aluminum lift struts with VERY beefy cross-sections, which would look totally out of place on a Pietenpol. That is the kind of cross-section you would need to have the stiffness to resist buckling loads. I'm not trying to sound dogmatic, but I want you to understand the pros and cons of your decision. You might be fine with no jury struts, but if you ever get caught in some really rough air, I'll bet you will wish you had them, if only for the peace of mind. Good Luck, Jack Phillips ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 21, 2001
Subject: Compression struts
Pieters, Encountered a little problem this morning while seating my forward fuse gas tank. All went well except when I tightened the turnbuckle of the over the tank hold down strap I could see where this would tend to bring the upper longerons together somewhat. Fearing this COULD happen I fashoned two compression struts 3/4 X 1 forward and aft of the tank. A little added weight but a LOT of piece of mind. Have any of you done this or thought about it? Corky in La ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Jury strut mounts
Date: May 21, 2001
I'm wrestling with a dilemma and need some input so I can make a decision. The aluminum lift (sic) struts that I'm using are stiff as I-beams and I doubt if I could bend them if I suspended them between two sawhorses and jumped on them. So, why in the world would I even need jury struts??>> In my opinion you need them, you need them. Don't fly without them. A while ago I reviewed 50 Piet accidents from 11/66 to 8/90. One report stated: "in flight failure of left wing struts at mid-point. Turbulence contributed, Fatal to 2. Aircraft destroyed." Other interesting items: Fatalities - 14% Serious injuries - 16% Critical injuries - 2% 30% percent of the accidents were due to stall/spin, 20% to engine failure. Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KGardner(at)odu.edu
Subject: Re: Jury strut mounts
Date: May 21, 2001
05/21/2001 02:21:01 PM Mike, Very interesting information, where did you find it? Is it in a searchable database? Kip >A while ago I reviewed 50 Piet accidents from 11/66 to 8/90. One report >stated: "in flight failure of left wing struts at mid-point. Turbulence >contributed, Fatal to 2. Aircraft destroyed." >Other interesting items: >Fatalities - 14% >Serious injuries - 16% >Critical injuries - 2% >30% percent of the accidents were due to stall/spin, 20% to engine failure. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: negative g-loads---Piet
Larry- Steve E. also used extruded alum lift struts on his Salt Lake to Oskosh & return Piet. Did he use jury struts ? Saw the plane in person, but cannot recall if he had jury struts or not. In my 197 hours of Piet flying I have encountered TONS of negative turbulence. This airplane acts more like a sailplane on hot x-country days. Lightly loaded wing, man....even in clear air you sometimes get a negative jolt that makes you re-grip your stick lower down. If I'd not had my seat belt on I would have come clean out of the cockpit. This is when you throttle back and try to ride out the bumps or land. It's like a cork in a bathtub on turbulent days. Even with my jury struts the struts and X wires set up a visible vibration at mid-span during certain throttle settings. I just look out and tweak the throttle up or down a titch to make it go away. I vote for (I know it's more work....) installing em. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com>
Subject: Virus Alert!
Date: May 21, 2001
If anyone has managed to avoid it thus far, please do not open any messages from me sent earlier today. Seems I had my first virus in seven or eight years on the Net. If it's from me, and there's an attachment, it's trouble. The good news is that the virus does not appear to be dangerous, just enormously annoying. Further good news is that the current update to Norton AntiVirus catches it. The bad news is that I've already had courteous notes from people saying, "Unfortunately, that file you sent appears to have become corrupted, and it wouldn't open"--pretty much the reply I sent to the guy whose machine sent it to me. It looks like you are already infected. I do apologize to anyone who got hit with this. I'm pretty careful not to open attachments, but this happened to arrive just after I'd asked for info that might well have been sent in an attached file. It won't happen again. Owen Davies ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Have you driven a Continental, Lately ?
"Pietenpol-List Digest Server" <3B0942F5.6EB9E43B(at)sdimaps.com> > >Y'all quit having fun and flagrantly commiting aviation right before my >face. I can't take it anymore. >JMG >John, fellow Pietenpolers------After only 198 hours I gotta pull two cyls. >this week on my Cont. 65. I have two leaking past the exhaust valves and can hear it hissing out the exhaust pipe when I pull the prop thru slowly. (and feel little resistance on those two jugs. Put the best parts in I could find too-----but of mice and airplanes- a constant battle for the one you love. Errr, the thing you love I guess. Keep at it John ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DonanClara(at)aol.com
Date: May 21, 2001
Subject: Re: Fw: pietenpol in Aurora, MO
In a message dated 05/21/2001 10:21:50 AM Central Daylight Time, KGardner(at)odu.edu writes: << BTW guys, you get the owner's directory as part of the deal when you join the Brodhead Pietenpol Association at $10.00 per year. Kip >> Hmmm...that's interesting...I was one of the first to sign up..no directory yet...guess I better chase that down. Don Hicks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KGardner(at)odu.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: pietenpol in Aurora, MO
Date: May 21, 2001
05/21/2001 04:45:23 PM Don, Well, I assume that's why I got it, I didn't request it from anyone, but it showed up in my mail one day. It came about 3 months after I joined BPA. Kip << BTW guys, you get the owner's directory as part of the deal when you join the Brodhead Pietenpol Association at $10.00 per year. Kip >> Hmmm...that's interesting...I was one of the first to sign up..no directory yet...guess I better chase that down. Don Hicks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: I did not get a directory either
Hmmm. I did not get a directory either from the Brodhead Pietenpol Association and I was one of the first to sign up (although they listed me as a new member in the last newsletter). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Directories
Group- We should check w/ Doc Mosher on this subject, but I think Doc sent out a few complimentary copies when he started this Piet directory a few years back. I've never heard that the new newsletter included one. For sure, if you want one- give Doc a look-up, check-up, or ring ! Doc's not even a Doc. A retired corporate pilot. Fun guy too. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2001
From: david kowell <dkowell(at)cstone.net>
Subject: Re: Have you driven a Continental, Lately
?"Pietenpol-List Digest Server" <3B0942F5.6EB9E43B(at)sdimaps.com> check valve adjustment before pulling jugs off may have tight valves they seat in after running Michael D Cuy wrote: > > > > >Y'all quit having fun and flagrantly commiting aviation right before my > >face. I can't take it anymore. > >JMG > > >John, fellow Pietenpolers------After only 198 hours I gotta pull two cyls. > >this > week on my Cont. 65. I have two leaking past the exhaust valves and can > hear it hissing out the exhaust pipe when I pull the prop thru > slowly. (and feel > little resistance on those two jugs. Put the best parts in I could find > too-----but > of mice and airplanes- a constant battle for the one you love. Errr, the > thing you > love I guess. Keep at it John ! > > Mike C. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2001
From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Cotton Rows & Corky
>Y'know Corky, what with all that talk of floatation & 30 gal of gas, etc. I would hate to be in line for the bathroom behind Corky if he can use a 30 gallon tank of gas on a 4'ish gph Piet. :-). He has had the hi capacity bladder installed. A hiking GPS - Magellan 315 - a compass, and the windows make it so my copilot Ben, who is almost 12, can follow us on the sectional. He doesn't get to see the GPS either. Dave Retsof, NY '41 TCart N36078 and slowly building a Piet ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Have you driven a Continental, Lately ?"Pietenpol-List
Digest Server" <3B0942F5.6EB9E43B(at)sdimaps.com>
Date: May 21, 2001
A Continental A-65 has hydraulic self-adjusting lifters. Impossible to have a "tight" valve! Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh ----- Original Message ----- From: "david kowell" <dkowell(at)cstone.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Have you driven a Continental, Lately ?"Pietenpol-List Digest Server" <3B0942F5.6EB9E43B(at)sdimaps.com> check valve adjustment before pulling jugs off may have tight valves they seat in after running Michael D Cuy wrote: > > > > >Y'all quit having fun and flagrantly commiting aviation right before my > >face. I can't take it anymore. > >JMG > > >John, fellow Pietenpolers------After only 198 hours I gotta pull two cyls. > >this > week on my Cont. 65. I have two leaking past the exhaust valves and can > hear it hissing out the exhaust pipe when I pull the prop thru > slowly. (and feel > little resistance on those two jugs. Put the best parts in I could find > too-----but > of mice and airplanes- a constant battle for the one you love. Errr, the > thing you > love I guess. Keep at it John ! > > Mike C. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Have you driven a Continental, Lately ?"Pietenpol-List
Digest Server" <3B0942F5.6EB9E43B(at)sdimaps.com>
Date: May 21, 2001
It is more likely leaded up exhaust valve guides. ----- Original Message ----- From: "david kowell" <dkowell(at)cstone.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Have you driven a Continental, Lately ?"Pietenpol-List Digest Server" <3B0942F5.6EB9E43B(at)sdimaps.com> check valve adjustment before pulling jugs off may have tight valves they seat in after running Michael D Cuy wrote: > > > > >Y'all quit having fun and flagrantly commiting aviation right before my > >face. I can't take it anymore. > >JMG > > >John, fellow Pietenpolers------After only 198 hours I gotta pull two cyls. > >this > week on my Cont. 65. I have two leaking past the exhaust valves and can > hear it hissing out the exhaust pipe when I pull the prop thru > slowly. (and feel > little resistance on those two jugs. Put the best parts in I could find > too-----but > of mice and airplanes- a constant battle for the one you love. Errr, the > thing you > love I guess. Keep at it John ! > > Mike C. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "fishin" <fishin(at)wwa.com>
Subject: Re: Cotton Rows & Corky
Date: May 21, 2001
Corky; I talked to my A&P-IA regarding compass filling and his comment was. one of the test questions that he remembers was, "how can you test wether a compass is filled or empty ?" the answer was, "look for the air bubble" has to have one to allow room for fluid expansion. summer temps expand compass fluids just like fuel in their tanks in fact a compass with no internal air space can expand to not only leak but has been known to blow the lens out. (anyone know if this has ever happened ?) JoeC N99621 -----Original Message----- From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com <Isablcorky(at)aol.com> Date: Monday, May 21, 2001 8:01 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cotton Rows & Corky > >Mike, >All I asked was whether I could use a little "down on the bayou" 190 proof to >fill my airpath. This thing has gone beyond city limits, the Pieters are now >telling me how to read a compass and/or flying by hind sight. I think I'll >just leave it half full and GO. >Corky down on the bayou in La > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "fishin" <fishin(at)wwa.com>
Subject: Re: Cotton Rows & Corky
Date: May 21, 2001
Corky, hasn't that particular body of water been know to do funny things to compasses? JoeC -----Original Message----- From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com <Isablcorky(at)aol.com> Date: Monday, May 21, 2001 8:07 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cotton Rows & Corky > >However, when one crosses a large expanse of water one should have a compass >that swings in the correct direction. With 30 gal of petrol in a Piet. What >do you think could happen? >Corky the dreamer in La > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Have you driven a Continental, Lately ? "Pietenpol-List
Digest Server" <3B0942F5.6EB9E43B(at)sdimaps.com>
Date: May 21, 2001
Mike C., It's times like this that I thank my lucky stars that I have the Mentor that I have for so many years... I find myself listening to him in awe, like a 5 year old listens to his father on how to bait a hook, or how to sharpen a knife. OOps, sorry to ramble. Two years ago when I was rebuilding my A65, my mentor told me about checking the "lifter clearance". Never heard of it. He explained that you have to be in the range of the lifter for it to work. If you look in the Continental manual, it gives you a range that is acceptible.( something like .030-.120) He told me that this is something that most AP's don't do, and it can mean the difference between a strong engine and a puny engine. Said that one guy burnt two valves in just a few hours due to this. You have to be able to compress the lifter, which means the the oil has to be out of it, and the cylinder has to be assembled. Remove the lifter cover bracket, pull out each lifter, one at a time, twist it to pull it apart, spray it with cleaner to remove all oil, and reassemble. ( don't mix up lifter parts or the holes they go in). Once you get a pair complete, assemble the cyl. and rockers, and valves. Push down on the rocker on the push rod side till the lifter bottoms,,,,now feeler guage the gap between the rocker and the valve stem. That has to be within the range that the manual says. If its not right,,,you can grind the valve stem, or get new pushrods, 010 or 020 etc off standard. I had to replace 6 pushrods. Not really a big deal, but the difference between good engine and punk one. If I didn't explain this right , or some one wants more infro. let me know. My mentor just bought a Cassut pylon racer, is pulling off the 65 hp Cont. and building a 100 hp to put on it. He's 80 years old, sharp as a tack, and full of knowledge. He doesn't just talk about the things he's going to do, was up there the other day, and saw his cam, pistons, newly painted case, the engine he sold off the Cassut. Anyone wants a pic of him in his "new Cassut Racer" let me know, I'll send it to you. Ain't life grand? walt ----------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Have you driven a Continental, Lately ? "Pietenpol-List Digest Server" <3B0942F5.6EB9E43B(at)sdimaps.com> > > > > > >Y'all quit having fun and flagrantly commiting aviation right before my > >face. I can't take it anymore. > >JMG > > > >John, fellow Pietenpolers------After only 198 hours I gotta pull two cyls. > >this > week on my Cont. 65. I have two leaking past the exhaust valves and can > hear it hissing out the exhaust pipe when I pull the prop thru > slowly. (and feel > little resistance on those two jugs. Put the best parts in I could find > too-----but > of mice and airplanes- a constant battle for the one you love. Errr, the > thing you > love I guess. Keep at it John ! > > Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Cotton Rows & Corky
Date: May 21, 2001
Liquid doesn't expand as much as air. The diaphragm in back takes care of that. When you have an air bubble it expands so much that it will destroy the diaphragm and pump out the fluid. Nothing against your A&-IA but the FAA will not let him legally refill a compass. They haven't the proper training nor knowledge according to the FAA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "fishin" <fishin(at)wwa.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cotton Rows & Corky Corky; I talked to my A&P-IA regarding compass filling and his comment was. one of the test questions that he remembers was, "how can you test wether a compass is filled or empty ?" the answer was, "look for the air bubble" has to have one to allow room for fluid expansion. summer temps expand compass fluids just like fuel in their tanks in fact a compass with no internal air space can expand to not only leak but has been known to blow the lens out. (anyone know if this has ever happened ?) JoeC N99621 -----Original Message----- From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com <Isablcorky(at)aol.com> Date: Monday, May 21, 2001 8:01 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cotton Rows & Corky > >Mike, >All I asked was whether I could use a little "down on the bayou" 190 proof to >fill my airpath. This thing has gone beyond city limits, the Pieters are now >telling me how to read a compass and/or flying by hind sight. I think I'll >just leave it half full and GO. >Corky down on the bayou in La > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Have you driven a Continental, Lately ?
Date: May 21, 2001
Before you pull those cylinders, you might want to try 'staking' the exhaust valves, also. This involves simply pulling the valve covers and removing the exhaust rockers, disconnecting the plug wires, removing the top plugs (make sure the cylinder is at bottom dead center) and hooking up an air source, ala compressor, to the cylinder (we used to use our compression tester fitting) with about 80 lbs. of air pressure. Then simply strike the valve stem with a hammer (plastic or leather head) a few times. This will knock the carbon off the valve face. You should really find out what the differential compression is on those cylinders before ya pull 'em. When you put the compression tester on the cylinder and hold the prop at TDC, you should hear the hissing from the exhaust pipe if it's indeed an exhaust valve. If you pull the oil dipstick it's rings. In that case remove the top plug (leaving the bottom one in) and fill the cylinder with Marvel Mystery oil and let it soak for a few hours or as long as you can stand it, then pull the bottom plug and drain the Mystery oil. Install your plugs and give the engine a good run up and then check your compression again. We used to be able to bring cylinders with readings in the low 50's and leaking past the rings back up to the 70's and the same with staking the valves. I gotta tell ya, if you're running 100LL, you're gonna carbon up the valves and lead up the plugs. And although it's not 'legal' in certificated aircraft, I know a lot of folks adding Mavel to their gas per the instructions on the can each time they fill up and they're not having the carbon build up or lead fouling half as bad as those who don't. Chris House Still smilin' Subject: Pietenpol-List: Have you driven a Continental, Lately ? "Pietenpol-List Digest Server" John, fellow Pietenpolers------After only 198 hours I gotta pull two cyls. > >this > week on my Cont. 65. I have two leaking past the exhaust valves and can > hear it hissing out the exhaust pipe when I pull the prop thru > slowly. (and feel > little resistance on those two jugs. Put the best parts in I could find > too-----but > of mice and airplanes- a constant battle for the one you love. Errr, the > thing you > love I guess. Keep at it John ! > > Mike C. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Have you driven a Continental, Lately ?
Date: May 22, 2001
Great advise. One more, if you hear hissing at the carb it is the intake valve leaking. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Have you driven a Continental, Lately ? Before you pull those cylinders, you might want to try 'staking' the exhaust valves, also. This involves simply pulling the valve covers and removing the exhaust rockers, disconnecting the plug wires, removing the top plugs (make sure the cylinder is at bottom dead center) and hooking up an air source, ala compressor, to the cylinder (we used to use our compression tester fitting) with about 80 lbs. of air pressure. Then simply strike the valve stem with a hammer (plastic or leather head) a few times. This will knock the carbon off the valve face. You should really find out what the differential compression is on those cylinders before ya pull 'em. When you put the compression tester on the cylinder and hold the prop at TDC, you should hear the hissing from the exhaust pipe if it's indeed an exhaust valve. If you pull the oil dipstick it's rings. In that case remove the top plug (leaving the bottom one in) and fill the cylinder with Marvel Mystery oil and let it soak for a few hours or as long as you can stand it, then pull the bottom plug and drain the Mystery oil. Install your plugs and give the engine a good run up and then check your compression again. We used to be able to bring cylinders with readings in the low 50's and leaking past the rings back up to the 70's and the same with staking the valves. I gotta tell ya, if you're running 100LL, you're gonna carbon up the valves and lead up the plugs. And although it's not 'legal' in certificated aircraft, I know a lot of folks adding Mavel to their gas per the instructions on the can each time they fill up and they're not having the carbon build up or lead fouling half as bad as those who don't. Chris House Still smilin' Subject: Pietenpol-List: Have you driven a Continental, Lately ? "Pietenpol-List Digest Server" John, fellow Pietenpolers------After only 198 hours I gotta pull two cyls. > >this > week on my Cont. 65. I have two leaking past the exhaust valves and can > hear it hissing out the exhaust pipe when I pull the prop thru > slowly. (and feel > little resistance on those two jugs. Put the best parts in I could find > too-----but > of mice and airplanes- a constant battle for the one you love. Errr, the > thing you > love I guess. Keep at it John ! > > Mike C. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Have you driven a Continental, Lately ?
"Pietenpol-List Digest Server" <3B0942F5.6EB9E43B(at)sdimaps.com> One caveat on checking the lifter clearance is that when you do it, the piston must be at TDC on the Compression stroke so that you know the lifter is riding on the lowest point on the cam. Chris Bobka ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Checking the Lfter Clearance
One caveat to previous comments is that the lifter clearance is to be checked when the cylinder whose lifters you are checking must have its piston at TDC on the compression stroke so that the lifter body is riding on the lowest point of the cam. If it is not on the lowest part of the cam, then you will have less or no clearance. As stated, the lifter MUST be devoid of all oil. Where did you get the different length pushrods? I need some!! Chris Bobka ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: exhaust valves
Hello Chris-- We've given the staking a try, even lapped in the valve face and seat (in place) by stuffing rope in the cyl so the valve wouldn't drop inside the chamber. I've got the stellite coated exh. valves, only use 80 octane except on long cross countries, and religiously add Marvel oil to the fuel and oil as per our IA. The hissing sound is clearly coming out of the exhaust stacks when you slowly pull the prop thru. Two clys. are tight, two hiss out the same side. We've soaked them in penetrating oil, etc. and flew it a few hours. Still sticky I guess or we've warped a seat or valve. It's easy to pull the cyls though so to get to the bottom of it and bring the compression numbers back up I'm going to pull them Weds. We'll be flying by Saturday if all goes well. Thanks very much for the good advice ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2001
From: "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: exhaust valves
Hey Mike; I guess I'm way behind the power curve.....that's what I get for spending all my time at the airport :) Chris House Still Smilin' ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: exhaust valves > > Hello Chris-- We've given the staking a try, even lapped in the valve face and > seat (in place) by stuffing rope in the cyl so the valve wouldn't drop > inside the > chamber. I've got the stellite coated exh. valves, only use 80 octane > except on > long cross countries, and religiously add Marvel oil to the fuel and oil > as per our > IA. The hissing sound is clearly coming out of the exhaust stacks when > you slowly > pull the prop thru. Two clys. are tight, two hiss out the same > side. We've soaked > them in penetrating oil, etc. and flew it a few hours. Still sticky I > guess or we've > warped a seat or valve. It's easy to pull the cyls though so to get to > the bottom of it > and bring the compression numbers back up I'm going to pull them Weds. > We'll be flying by Saturday if all goes well. Thanks very much for the > good advice ! > > Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KGardner(at)odu.edu
Subject: Synthetic 100LL replacement
Date: May 22, 2001
05/22/2001 10:50:51 AM Hi group, I know it's completely off any current list topic, but did anyone see the letter in the May Sport Aviation from the guy in SD about the synthetic, ethanol-based 100ll that has been developed at U-SD? Sounded very interesting for those of us planning to use engines (a la Corvair) that need the higher octane juice. Might be the norm by the time I'm flying. Cheers! Kip ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: exhaust valves
Date: May 22, 2001
I used to use Marvel until a friend put some in a metal cup and heated it up, It quickly turned into a very very hard slick coating. Then he showed me a couple of valves that had built up such a coating that the valve seized up in the guide and destroyed the cylinder as the guide rode up and down on the valve. I read a tip in the 150 Club newsletter about 10 years ago and it has worked for me. Before you shut down your engine, lean it as much as possible at 1700 rpm and let it run for 90 seconds. then slowly pull the throttle and let it die with full lean. On two Cessnas I own, after 600 and 572 hours ( the usual life of a Cont. cylinder), the compression is still 76/80 or better on all cylinders. It seems to keep the valves, plugs and piston tops very clean especially if you run LL. This may not be approved, but I still taxi right on by my mechanic's hangar and wave. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: exhaust valves > > Hey Mike; > > I guess I'm way behind the power curve.....that's what I get for spending > all my time at the airport :) > > Chris House > Still Smilin' > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 7:04 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: exhaust valves > > > > > > > Hello Chris-- We've given the staking a try, even lapped in the valve > face and > > seat (in place) by stuffing rope in the cyl so the valve wouldn't drop > > inside the > > chamber. I've got the stellite coated exh. valves, only use 80 octane > > except on > > long cross countries, and religiously add Marvel oil to the fuel and oil > > as per our > > IA. The hissing sound is clearly coming out of the exhaust stacks when > > you slowly > > pull the prop thru. Two clys. are tight, two hiss out the same > > side. We've soaked > > them in penetrating oil, etc. and flew it a few hours. Still sticky I > > guess or we've > > warped a seat or valve. It's easy to pull the cyls though so to get to > > the bottom of it > > and bring the compression numbers back up I'm going to pull them Weds. > > We'll be flying by Saturday if all goes well. Thanks very much for the > > good advice ! > > > > Mike C. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ed0248(at)aol.com
Date: May 22, 2001
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 05/21/01
In a message dated 05/22/2001 1:53:46 AM Central Daylight Time, pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: << Y'know Corky, what with all that talk of floatation & 30 gal of gas, etc. that you were posting a couple of weeks ago, i figured ccotton fields might be a tad sparse where you were headed. If it were me, I'd fix the compass, but then I have this obsession with knowing more-or-less where I am most of the time. Kip >> Kip... I'm NEVER lost! My wife tells me where to go all the time. But, at my advanced age, my motto is: Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. Ed ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: exhaust valves
Date: May 22, 2001
Barry, I do like to use Marvel, but the way I use it is to add a quart about an hour before an oil change, run the engine for awhile, then let it sit overnight, then drain it. Marvel has some very good detergent properties, and seems to really clean well. I've never read anything that cited Marvel as causing the problems you mentioned. The worst thing I've seen is that it's kind of a placebo, not doing any real harm or good. It'll be interesting to see other responses. I also wonder how regular motor oil would do under the same conditions that you used to test the Marvel. The leaning practice you use is very similar to mine. I don't think this is an area subject to approval of any sort. Do what works best for your engine. For what it's worth, when I'd burn car gas in my 150 it always ran MUCH cleaner than with 100LL. I ran a mix of about 50-50 of 87UL/100LL, I don't mess with it anymore due to possibility of alcohol in the car gas, and I've gotten lazy. Gary Meadows Spring, TX. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Checking the Lfter Clearance
Date: May 22, 2001
Got the pushrods at Fresno (Think thats the name) Their ad is in the inside front page of every "Trade a Plane". Thats where I got all the parts for my rebuild. walt ----------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Bobka" <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Checking the Lfter Clearance > > One caveat to previous comments is that the lifter clearance is to be > checked when the cylinder whose lifters you are checking must have its > piston at TDC on the compression stroke so that the lifter body is riding > on the lowest point of the cam. If it is not on the lowest part of the > cam, then you will have less or no clearance. As stated, the lifter MUST > be devoid of all oil. > > Where did you get the different length pushrods? I need some!! > > Chris Bobka > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: exhaust valves
Date: May 22, 2001
Gary; I agree with you on your use of Marvel. A little in the oil just before an oil change, I believe helps. But, I also agree with Barry insofar as running it all the time in the oil. I'm suggesting running 4 ounces per 10 gallons (per the can instructions) in the gas. At this mix ratio, I don't think that there's enough to cause the kind of sticky issues Barry's friend showed him. I know people who are religious about the Marvel thing and have O-320's that are 300 or 400 hours past TBO and still running strong. And I know a Flight school who runs it in all their planes and have not experienced any problems. And out here where aircraft ramp temps can reach 165 degrees, you gotta wonder. I can tell you that I ran Marvel in my old 1985 Toyota 4x4 with Marvel in the oil for the last 100 miles before I did an oil change. I did this from the day I drove it off the showroom floor. I towed boats, planes and hauled a couple of complete house remodels with this truck and essentially abused it in every way possible in the dusty Arizona/Mexico desert, and when I finally decided to overhaul the motor at 155,000 miles as a preventative maintenance measure, I found the inside of the motor pretty spotless. In fact, all I did with the oil pan was wipe it out with a rag with solvent and I was good to go. For the head, we didn't even vat it. Just rinsed it down, ground the valves and installed it. That motor sold me, especially after working in a car shop and seeing what happens to an engine when you run a synthetic and overheat it. I think those motors are what sailors use to attach mooring balls to. My pennies worth. I think it's whatever you are comfortable with. And Barry's shutdown procedure is excellent. Chris Still Smilin' (after a loooong day at work, but headed to the airport) ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: exhaust valves > > Barry, > > I do like to use Marvel, but the way I use it is to add a quart about an > hour before an oil change, run the engine for awhile, then let it sit > overnight, then drain it. Marvel has some very good detergent properties, > and seems to really clean well. > > I've never read anything that cited Marvel as causing the problems you > mentioned. The worst thing I've seen is that it's kind of a placebo, not > doing any real harm or good. It'll be interesting to see other responses. I > also wonder how regular motor oil would do under the same conditions that > you used to test the Marvel. > > The leaning practice you use is very similar to mine. I don't think this > is an area subject to approval of any sort. Do what works best for your > engine. For what it's worth, when I'd burn car gas in my 150 it always ran > MUCH cleaner than with 100LL. I ran a mix of about 50-50 of 87UL/100LL, I > don't mess with it anymore due to possibility of alcohol in the car gas, and > I've gotten lazy. > > Gary Meadows > Spring, TX. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lou Larsen" <pietlars(at)earthlink.net>
"Ed and Julie Brewer" , "Gary Wimberly" , "Jerry Isbell" , "John Weber" , "Bob Wesslund" , "Charlie Schnitzlein" , "Dale & Becky Vining" , , "Don Hicks" , "Don Briselden" , "Don Jessup" , "Jack Barker" , "Jim & Louise Doolittle" , "John Greenlee" , "Larry Williams" , , "Ted June Bradley" , "Will Graff"
Subject: Fw: Our New E-Mail Address
Date: Jul 23, 2001
----- Original Message ----- From: Lou Larsen Vining ; Dorothy -Eleanor Smith ; Linda J. Larsen ; Peter Larsen ; Peggy Ward ; Stephanie Larsen Subject: Our New E-Mail Address Hi Everyone: We have been cutoff ffrom the world for a while; since May 13th to be exact. So any messages that you may have sent us since then are in outer space, never to be retrieved. Our old Internet source, Cybergate has been merged into Earthlink and when we tried to install the earthlink connection, the process got all fouled up and neither old nor new source would recognize our pass words, that and trying to clear out a virus, killed us. took the box to a computer repair service and they got it squared away on Monday. On Monday night as I powered up to pass the word, a lightning strike zapped the modem. Back to the computer fixer yesterday for a new modem, so now we are back in business, hopefully. Our nrw address is: pietlars(at)earthlink.net Hope to hear from youall again soon Elinor and Lou ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MGreen3545(at)aol.com
Date: May 23, 2001
Subject: Re: Fw: Our New E-Mail Address
So good to hear from you. Dale & Vicky are doing great. Hope the new internet service works for you. Stay in touch. I know you'll keep the email address confidential. Regards, George Jr, and Laura ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karl Edwin Garman" <airplaneman77(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol Biplane
Date: May 23, 2001
Hi, I heard of a biplane Pietenpol known as an "Aerial?". Does anyone know who offers plans for such an airplane or anything else about it? --Karl ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2001
From: javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: wing struts
Hi piets The last e-mails about the wing struts and the accidents are very interesting, i am not working on the wing struts but the information it's very important for the project, so what is the most used material for wing struts, wood, aluminum, steel, etc. The streamline 4130 steel looks good, but i would like to read more comments about, maybe wing strust from other aircraft Piper, Cessna etc.? Thanks for your coments. Saludos Javier Cruz working on the motor mount an learning to speak english Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Aerial
Date: May 24, 2001
Karl, there is a guy named Chad Willie (stcroix(at)mddc.com) up north who has built a few Piets including the biplane version. He can give you lots of info. He also sells plans and welded parts for the different Piet aircraft. Jeff in warm Texas who stood beside the recently completed right fuselage side and made airplane noises. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 24, 2001
Subject: Re: Aerial
Way to go Jeff. Corky in airplane noisy La ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com>
Subject: Folding wing panels
Date: May 24, 2001
Is anyone working on a folding wing design for a Piet? Or does anyone know of an existing design? I'm getting close to putting the wings together and I keep thinking it would be a nice feature for transporting and sharing hangars, etc. DickG. Ft. Myers, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ian Holland" <iholland(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: wing struts
Date: May 24, 2001
Hi, Javier I don't know about the rest of the folks, but the wing struts out of 4130 are likely not going to happen for me due to cost. Currently, I am looking at using round tubing (4130) and fairing them. I looked into the old Piper struts in the area, and they don't exist anymore. The few that I found at an airplane salvage were bent, totally rusted or generally unserviceable. A couple were so heavy that I could hardly lift them. I, too would be interested in hearing about alternates (affordable ones that is). Best regards, -=Ian=- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ian Holland" <iholland(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Corvair engine
Date: May 24, 2001
Hi Norm, If you are considering the Corvair, you should hook up with the attached. Lots of help and info, and a very good archive. I am planning on using the Corvair and just about have it ready to run. I built the extended version of the Piet, and my understanding is that there are upwards of 30 different engines powering it. I did not make my final choice of engine until the Piet was mostly built. I believe the Corvair will likely be the lowest cost option, however, I may be wrong on that. Best regards, -=Ian=- To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe corvaircraft" to"majordomo(at)usm.edu" For help send "info corvaircraft" or "help" to "majordomo(at)usm.edu" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2001
From: "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: wing struts
Ian, Take a look at http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html The 6060-T6 struts are very strong, and if you feel more comfortable with belt and suspenders, you can run square 4130 down the inside of the strut. Cheers, Warren ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: EAA Book Sale
RE: Pietenpol-List: EAA Book List Prospective EAA bookshop purchasers: We have spoken before about the April-May bargain on books (50% off!) from the EAA book shop when they are purchased thru your EAA Chapter. Chris Bobka has offered to act as a Chapter purchaser for any of you who are not able to work thru your local EAA Chapter. If you run into problems with EAA, let me know and I will walk over to EAA and try to expedite the shipments with Cathy Chomo, who is the person in charge of that whole operation. Until you get your official listing from EAA, here is what I know is available, along with the regular price: 1929 Flying and Glider Manual (F-14167) $6.95 Contains information on flight lessons plus building the Heath Super Parasol, Russell-Henderson Light Monoplane and an easy-to-build glider. (72 pages) 1930 Flying and Glider Manual (F-14168) $6.95 Contains plans for building a Heath Baby Bullet, set of light plane metal floats, the Northrup Glider, Lincoln Biplane and Alco Sport plane. Other tips on building and welding. (72 pages) 1931 Flying and Glider Manual (F-14169) $6.95 Building the "Longster," Georgias Special, a glider and secondary glider, Driggs Dart, the Church Midwing, the Heath Seaplane Parasol and its pontoons, the Northrup Glider and other gliders. (72 pages) 1932 Flying and Glider Manual (F-14170) $6.95 Building the Pietenpol Aircamper with Ford motor conversion, Powell "P-H" Racer, the Heath Super Soar Glider, Penguin practice plane, Ramsey "Flying Bathtub" and other kits. Also, build your own hangar. (72 pages) 1933 Flying and Glider Manual (F-14171) $6.95 Building the Gere Sport Biplane, Pietenpol floats, Pietenpol Sky Scout, and Henderson Longster. Also Long Harlequin motor planes, a hydroglider and information on building propellers. (76 pages) Flying and Glider Manual Combo (F-14172) $29.95 All five Flying and Glider Manuals. Save $4.80. Sportplane Builder (F-30140) $24.95 By Tony Bingelis (Vol.1) Aircraft construction methods and techniques for the homebuilder. Articles taken from Tony's columns in Sport Aviation magazine. (319 pages) Sportplane Construction Techniques (F-01395) $24.95 By Tony Bingelis (Vol.2) More aircraft construction tips for the homebuilder. Chapters dedicated to fiberglass construction, control systems, interiors, landing gear, instrumentation, electrical, and painting. Articles taken from Tony's columns in Sport Aviation magazine. (366 pages) Firewall Forward (F-13950) $24.95 By Tony Bingelis (Vol.3) Manual on piston engine installations. Information includes engine selection, mounts, firewalls,mufflers, fuel systems, and much more. One of the best engine reference manuals for the amateur builder. (302 pages) Tony Bingelis on Engines (F-15691) $24.95 By Tony Bingelis (Vol.4) A treasury of practical engine information for aircraft builders, owners, restorers, and mechanics. Things you need to know about engine selection, engine installation, firewall preparation, baffles, cooling, fuel systems, ignition and electrical, exhaust systems, props and spinners. Articles taken from Tony's columns in Sport Aviation magazine. (224 pages) Tony Bingelis Four Volume Set (F-15692) $79.95 Save $19.85 by ordering all four books. Aircraft Welding (F-37864) $11.95 Fundamental welding techniques for the building and repair of aircraft, from the pages of Sport Aviation and other sources. This book is filled with aircraft welding tips and information. (116 pages) Wood Aircraft Building Techniques (F-18100) $11.95 Excellent resource book on "how to" build or repair wooden aircraft. (136 pages) Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook (F-13510) $14.95 A guide to construction standards for amateur aircraft building and detailed information on FAA contacts and applicable FARs. (141 pages) Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook / EAA Welding Manual / EAA Wood Building Techniques Combo (F-18104) $29.95 Save $8.90 buying all three at once. Alternative Engines (F-17878) $44.95 By Mick Myal. (Vol.1) A comprehensive look at automobile based engines as a logical source for affordable alternative aircraft power (304 pages) Alternative Engines (Unlisted code number) $44.95 By Mick Myal. (Vol.2) A continuation of articles form Contact! magazine. (312 pages) There are a number of videos available. This is a portion of the listings: Building Your Own Airplane: How to get started (F-10429) $19.99 The first of a series of videos that will give you insight into the exciting world of home-building. Topics include the right kit for you, the definition of experimental, Federal Aviation Regulations, insurance, how to set a realistic budget, FAA inspections, and many other topics. (45 min.) Basic Aircraft Covering with Ray Stits (F-36141) $29.99 Learn the delicate art of fabric covering from the best - Ray Stits - the man who developed the Stits Poly-Fiber Aircraft Coating Process. Step-by-step instructions are detailed in this excellent video. (120 min.) Basic Aircraft Woodworking (F-35776) $19.99 Woodworking knowledge is essential to any home-building project. Power tool safety is also discussed. A great starter tape. (30 min.) EAA Wood Building Techniques/Basic Woodworking Video Combo (F-11619) $23.99 Save $7.95 by buying this 2 piece combo. Building Your Own Airplane: Welding (F-36687) $19.99 Take the mystery out of welding. Your video instructors will take you step-by-step through the process of oxyacetylene welding. Learn how to "read" a puddle, run a bead, tack weld, weld a 90 degree intersection, cluster weld, and more. Whether you've never held a torch before or haven't welded for years, this video will provide the background to get you started. (50 min.) EAA Welding Manual/Building Your Own Airplane: Welding Video Combo (F-36688) $23.99 Save $7.95 buying the combo. Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook/EAA Welding Manual/EAA Wood Building Techniques Combo (F-18104) $29.95 Save $8.90 by buying all three books at once. - - - - - - - - - - - - - I do not have the EAA code number or price of FAA's Advisory Circular 43.13-1B/2A "Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Inspection, Repair & Alterations" but I know you can buy it thru the EAA bookstore. This is the manual which sets the standards to which you should be building. It's a heavy, thick, expensive "how to" book, but one that every A&P and IA must have. You will have to pay shipping charges from Oshkosh, which can get expensive. But you can get the approximate costs when you order the books and tapes. Doc Mosher Oshkosh USA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: More on the EAA Book Sale
From: Christian Bobka, 74373,442 DATE: 5/24/01 12:40 AM RE: EAA Book Sale Greg, The Bingelis books, four of them, go for 50% off of the list price for the set of 80 dollars (so forty bucks good price eh?). Throw in another 6 dollars for shipping. If you don't want the set then they are 12.50 a piece plus shipping. I also advise you to get the wood construction techniques book and video (Bill Rewey building his Piet) for an additional 12 dollars plus shipping (maybe another 2 dollars) and the welding book and video for an additional 12 dollars plus shipping (maybe another two dollars). Finally, the Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook is advised for the FAA paperwork info for another 7.50 plus a dollar for so for shipping. Flying and Glider Manual reprints are 3.50 a piece or 15 dollars for the set of five, plus shipping. The sale is "50% off any item in the EAA Book/Video Catalog" so if you can dig it up on the web and want other stuff, let me know. I would need the catalog item number and name if it is oddball stuff so I do not order the wrong thing. Before you send me anything, advise me what you want by email at bobka(at)compuserve.com. Then I will come up with an estimated shipping cost and advise you by email what amount should be sent. I impose a deadline of June 20th for check in my hand. Any extra postage sent will be refunded. The more you order, the cheaper the average price per item will be. I will take delivery of the big shipment form EAA HQ and then mail out everyone's orders. I will be using USPS Media rate with delivery confirmation (to protect me from someone claiming they never received the stuff) only. I hope to have everything distributed by the end of July but it is up to the EAA HQ to get the stuff to me promptly. I will mail it out within a day or two of receiving it from HQ. All sales will be through the EAA Chapter that I am treasurer of so make the check payable to "EAA Chapter 25" and mail to me at: Christian Bobka 13532 Findlay Avenue Apple Valley, MN 55124-8064 612 207 3762 is my phone. Call only if you have to. Check out the EAA25.com website to verify that I am indeed the treasurer. I am doing this because I am a good guy and want to see the sun obscured by waves of Pietenpols flying over head. I am not making any money off this. All sales will be final. Take your time and do it right!! "Once in a lifetime opportunities only come once or twice in a lifetime" - Archie Bunker Be aware that this sale is exclusive to the EAA chapters only. Only one order per chapter on the special order form mailed to the chapter presidents. If you send direct to EAA HQ, they will not honor these prices but they will charge your credit card for the full price. Don't work outside the system. Finally, use a Technical Counselor!! More on this later. Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Everyone should have recieved a respose
If you inquired of me about the EAA Book Sale, you should have received a response. If I have overlooked someone, please let me know. chris bobka Minneapolis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject:
Date: May 25, 2001
The best solution to having AC 43.13-1B and 2A is to get an obsolete CD-ROMs on ADs from your IA. The ADs might not be up to date, but the entire set of ACs are on them. I use an Advantext. I prefer their "old" style single CD setup. Once you have that, you can go the Canadian TC site (http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/ad/ad_e.htm) and get all the latest ADs. Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org "I do not have the EAA code number or price of FAA's Advisory Circular 43.13-1B/2A "Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Inspection, Repair & Alterations" but I know you can buy it thru the EAA bookstore. This is the manual which sets the standards to which you should be building. It's a heavy, thick, expensive "how to" book, but one that every A&P and IA must have. You will have to pay shipping charges from Oshkosh, which can get expensive. But you can get the approximate costs when you order the books and tapes. Doc Mosher Oshkosh USA" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com>
Subject: Re: wing struts
Date: May 25, 2001
I have found lots of different struts around here at local airports. Does anyone have any recommendations on the minimum length to use to convert? Or which certified aircraft struts to look for? I've found lots of Aeronca struts. Can anyone make any recommendations?? Also, what about using the threaded ends that are on these used struts? Or should I cut them off and put new on? Seems like the universal cost from everyone I've asked is $25 per strut. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing struts > > Hi piets > > The last e-mails about the wing struts and the > accidents are very interesting, i am not working on > the wing struts but the information it's very > important for the project, so what is the most used > material for wing struts, wood, aluminum, steel, etc. > The streamline 4130 steel looks good, but i would like > to read more comments about, maybe wing strust from > other aircraft Piper, Cessna etc.? > > Thanks for your coments. > Saludos > Javier Cruz > working on the motor mount an learning to speak > english > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: wing struts
Date: May 25, 2001
Ian, If you are going to go with 4130 al struts, you know you must sleeve them to get the strength you will need. That intersleeve has to fit in there just right. No slop. You'll have to keep an eye on the bolt holes as the forces on Them may elongate them. Have you considered round steel and fairing them? Would be a lot stronger. Carl Please visit my website at www.megsinet.net/skycarl -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ian Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing struts Hi, Javier I don't know about the rest of the folks, but the wing struts out of 4130 are likely not going to happen for me due to cost. Currently, I am looking at using round tubing (4130) and fairing them. I looked into the old Piper struts in the area, and they don't exist anymore. The few that I found at an airplane salvage were bent, totally rusted or generally unserviceable. A couple were so heavy that I could hardly lift them. I, too would be interested in hearing about alternates (affordable ones that is). Best regards, -=Ian=- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ian Holland" <iholland(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re:
Date: May 25, 2001
For the "Acceptable Methods..." try your local University or College bookstore. I picked up mine off the shelf a few years ago in Thunder Bay at Confederation College. They offer a mechanic's course, and it is a required text. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ian Holland" <iholland(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: wing struts
Date: May 25, 2001
Thanks, Warren I had not come across this source Any idea what is the appropriate size for an aluminum strut for a Piet? The 3/4" or 1"? -=Ian=- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 2001
From: "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: wing struts
Ian, I'm going with the 1" for the wing struts, and the 3/4" for the cabanes. In addition to the strength of the 6061-T6, I just think that the 3.13" wing struts look better, and allow a bit more room for the end fittings. Cheers, Warren. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 2001
From: Tim <tbertw(at)tenbuckplans.com>
Subject: Re: wing struts
List, I am not a builder (YET), but I did see a Piet at Sun'N'Fun with wooden struts. It was Alan Wise's Piet from Orlando. I took some pictures and I have not scanned them in yet. Alan said the Piet was used when he bot it several years ago and he has 1600 hours on it himself... Tim - Spring, TX > >Ian, > I'm going with the 1" for the wing struts, and the 3/4" for the >cabanes. In addition to the strength of the 6061-T6, I just think that >the 3.13" wing struts look better, and allow a bit more room for the end >fittings. >Cheers, >Warren. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 05/24/01
Date: May 25, 2001
****snip**** message posted by: "Ian Holland" Hi, Javier I don't know about the rest of the folks, but the wing struts out of 4130 are likely not going to happen for me due to cost. Currently, I am looking at using round tubing (4130) and fairing them... *********** When I purchased my Kolb, they supplied a tube wing strut and a plastic streamlined faring that slipped over the tube. I checked the price for this from Wicks or Aircraft Spruce and it was inexpensive, actually, very inexpensive. On another topic... A few weeks ago someone mentioned the Sport Aircraft Association (SAA) headed by Paul P.: donations only, no chapters, grass-roots type organization. I feel that the EAA has really forgotten the scratch-built builders, the type that work on a budget, experimenting with hardware store alternatives. Maybe they've had to so to serve a larger audience, but that's really not for me. The SAA is for me, so I sent a letter asking if they would add me to their group, asked if I could have the available back issues of their magazine, and dropped in some cash. A few weeks later, on a hand written envelope, I received a thank you note, a membership card (#1500 somethin'), and the back issues. They were great! Reprints from the 1950's articles from Popular Mechanix on the Baby Ace, actually articles on welding a fuselodge, building a wooden wing, wooden ribs, construction tips... It's worth joining. Also, it's all volunteer so those of you that have a lifes worth of wisdom in you head, may I suggest that you sit down, write an article, and send it in. Your article may never make it in Kitplanes, but the SAA, and surely the rest of us, would use it. Robert Haines Murphysboro, Illinois ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com>
Subject: Folding Wing Panels
Date: May 25, 2001
Thanks Chris, I'll Keep that in mind if I can't find something that folds. DickG. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 25, 2001
Subject: Re: Folding Wing Panels
Thanks for the info Dick, they had it in stock here at the Shv store Corky in La ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 2001
From: "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: wing struts
The old Grant McClaren web page has a small article on the wooden strut. Basically, it was a 1"X3" piece of high quality birch plywood, with spruce cap strips on leading and trailing edge that had been rounded over on the front and smoothed to a trailing edge on the back. As noted, it has worked well in service for many years. Looks pretty "antique" also. I think that I might consider wrapping it in a clear fiberglass and clear resin. Cheers, Warren. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
"Mary Jones"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 05/24/01
Date: May 25, 2001
I am quite certain the EAA will publish articles as they are always looking for good articles about homebuilding. How can I be so sure? Check the signature line. So send me a good article or two, I'll be glad to see that it gets to the right place. Good pictures with high contrast can also needed. The little flashes of the point and shoot cameras really don't cut it, but I can salvage almost any photo using the latest PhotoShop offering. I prefer articles send by e-mail but like to scan photos to get the highest quality at 300 dpi. Or drop them off during the convention this summer. I will be at Emergency Aircraft Repair. Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 05/24/01 ****snip**** message posted by: "Ian Holland" Hi, Javier I don't know about the rest of the folks, but the wing struts out of 4130 are likely not going to happen for me due to cost. Currently, I am looking at using round tubing (4130) and fairing them... *********** When I purchased my Kolb, they supplied a tube wing strut and a plastic streamlined faring that slipped over the tube. I checked the price for this from Wicks or Aircraft Spruce and it was inexpensive, actually, very inexpensive. On another topic... A few weeks ago someone mentioned the Sport Aircraft Association (SAA) headed by Paul P.: donations only, no chapters, grass-roots type organization. I feel that the EAA has really forgotten the scratch-built builders, the type that work on a budget, experimenting with hardware store alternatives. Maybe they've had to so to serve a larger audience, but that's really not for me. The SAA is for me, so I sent a letter asking if they would add me to their group, asked if I could have the available back issues of their magazine, and dropped in some cash. A few weeks later, on a hand written envelope, I received a thank you note, a membership card (#1500 somethin'), and the back issues. They were great! Reprints from the 1950's articles from Popular Mechanix on the Baby Ace, actually articles on welding a fuselodge, building a wooden wing, wooden ribs, construction tips... It's worth joining. Also, it's all volunteer so those of you that have a lifes worth of wisdom in you head, may I suggest that you sit down, write an article, and send it in. Your article may never make it in Kitplanes, but the SAA, and surely the rest of us, would use it. Robert Haines Murphysboro, Illinois ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Folding wing panels
Date: May 25, 2001
Is anyone working on a folding wing design for a Piet? Or does anyone know of an existing design? I'm getting close to putting the wings together and I keep thinking it would be a nice feature for transporting and sharing hangars, etc. DickG. Ft. Myers, FL Dick, a fellow in England has a folding wing Piet. It is in one of the BPA newsletters. Mike B Piet N678MB ( Mr Sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Pietenpol wing struts from old lightplane struts.
Date: May 25, 2001
Hello group, For what it's worth, almost all of the Pietenpols I have seen and flown in these parts (central Alberta, Canada) have wing struts made from salvaged Cub, Aeronca, Taylorcraft, etc. airplanes. These struts were made of mild steel streamline tubing and typically were longer than Pietenpol lift struts. If one was lucky enough to find one with damage close to either end, it was easy to fashion a perfectly good strut for a Piet. I used Aeronca (Champ or Chief) front struts for my front struts and Taylorcraft rear struts for my rear struts. I did not use any of the original strut ends, but fashioned new ones similar to those on the Pietenpol plans. The center section/cabane struts are made from Aeronca (Champ or Chief) rear lift strut material and I incorporated jury struts at approximately the mid point of the lift struts. It was not possible to fit them at exactly the mid point of the lift struts because of the location of the welded-in bushing found on Aeronca struts, but possibly this isn't a bad thing because it just might (I'm guessing here) discourage the development of a harmonic vibration. In any case, the struts and the cross bra- cing cables don't seem to vibrate at any engine speed on my Piet, giving the comforting impression of a good solid setup. In my opinion, jury struts are essential. I have flown Piets with- out them, and strut vibration was apparent. One of these a/c had a one-piece wing and the other had the 3-piece arrange- ment. As Jack Phillips recently stated, the possibility of buck- ling a strut under negative g conditions is real, and jury struts are definitely recommended (Don't leave the ground without them!). Getting back to the strut material, 4130 sreamlined tubing is fine if you can afford it, but not essential. If mild steel was OK for Cubs, etc., it should be fine for the Pietenpol. The only catch today is finding discarded struts from these airplanes; when I built my Piet, there were quite a few in hangar lofts (sometimes available for $0.00). Good luck! Cheers, Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KGardner(at)odu.edu
Subject: Re: Folding wing panels/ Eating a Little Crow
Date: May 25, 2001
05/25/2001 04:18:37 PM Hi List, Just to throw in my (deflated) 2 cents' worth. Somewhere on Grant's old BPA web page, there is a discussion about this issue, biplane versions, using VW motors, etc. wherein the author (not sure if it's Grant or someone else) states - 'yes, you COULD do any of these things, but you probably won't wind up with a plane that's as good as the original design'. I've heard it again & again since joining this list & it is also a common thread in the BPA Newsletter reprint compilation that Mike Bell put together for many of us. Aside from minor modifications to make construction easier, etc., I plan on sticking pretty much with the plans. On another note, a while ago I posted a comment that you got a copy of Doc Mosher's Pietenpol Owner's Directory if you joined the Brodhead Piet Association. Unless someone officially says otherwise, THIS IS NOT TRUE! Doc wrote me a few days ago & wanted to know where I got that information, because he didn't have any such arrangement with them. Well is was a pure, out-and-out assumption on my part (& you know what they say about assumptions), based solely on the fact that I joined the BPA & lo & behold 2 months later I got an unsolicited copy of the Directory. I figured I got it from BPA, now I'm not sure where it came from. So, just to be clear: I'm a horse's a** for making the statement & uless you hear otherwise from Doc or the BPA, It Ain't So. Happy Flying, Kip Gardner ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com>
Subject: Folding Wing Panels
Date: May 25, 2001
Mr. Sam, Thanks for the observation about the guy in England. I think it was about 2 yrs. ago that I wrote to him but no response. (Maybe his wings folded in flight) DickG. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Montoure" <jkgm(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Brodhead visit
Date: May 25, 2001
Can anyone suggest a decent motel or place to stay near Brodhead . Got the tickets to Chicago, then driving to the shindig. Should arrive sometime AM July 20th. Need place to call home for three nights. No camping equipment, only plastic. Ken in the Nawth. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 2001
From: Michael Bell <mbellbell(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol Bipe
You can find some pix and information in an old EAA issue. I have a copy, but I don't know where right now. Really, I would ask why, a Pietenpol with even MORE drag. But, if the reason is for the fun of it, or because I want to, then go to the EAA website and search for this article. The person who built this one is still building Piets, lives in greater Portland Oregon, (across the river in Washington I think). If and when I find the article, I'll post the resource, but you should be able to find it by searching the EAA long before then. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 26, 2001
Subject: Re: Brodhead visit
Ken in the Nawth, Last year, being my first invasion of Wisconsin since '51 I chose Janesville for a place to sleep. We had excellent and inexpensive accomodations at the Baymount. There are the other big chains there also. It is not that close to Brodhead but what is? If my bride were pleased you know it had to be good. Denny's next door. Corky in La who will be in Texas during Brodhead because an inconsiderate granddaughter decided to get married on 21 July. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2001
From: Kirk & Laura Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com>
Subject: Re:Brodhead visit
I'm planning on attending with my wife and little boy for Friday and Sat - Are there any special arrangements to be made for camping on/by the field? My Brother-in-Law is flying in also (Cherokee 180) - is there anything specific he should know? Thanks Kirk ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re:Brodhead visit
Kirk, My advice for camping at Brodhead is to plan that all the lights on the light poles and in the hangars will be left on all night and make for disturbed sleep as tent walls are typically very translucent. I would go on the west side by the tree line so that it is dark and you can enjoy the stars. Chris Bobka Minneapolis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pierson's" <pierson@pro-ns.net>
Subject: Re: Everyone should have recieved a respose
Date: May 26, 2001
chris i am fairly new to the list and am wondering if it is too late to order books. if it's still possible here is my list: sportplane builder (f-30140) sportplane construction techniques (f-01395) welding manual video combo (f-36688) wood building video combo (f-11619) custom built handbook (f-13510) thanks dave pierson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ed0248(at)aol.com
Date: May 26, 2001
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 05/25/01
In a message dated 05/26/2001 1:53:38 AM Central Daylight Time, pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: << __ From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> Subject: Pietenpol-List: The best solution to having AC 43.13-1B and 2A is to get an obsolete CD-ROMs on ADs from your IA. The ADs might not be up to date, but the entire set of ACs are on them. I use an Advantext. I prefer their "old" style single CD setup. Once you have that, you can go the Canadian TC site (http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/ad/ad_e.htm) and get all the latest ADs. Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org >> I got my copy of AC43.13-B off the Internet in Adobe PDF format from the following source: <http://www.moneypit.net/~pratt/ac43/> I then printed it off for my working copy. BIG BOOK!!! Ed Woerle A&P, IA, Designated Examiner ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ToySat(at)aol.com
Date: May 27, 2001
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 05/26/01
Hey Corky, remember that old southern song "Slap her down again Paw"? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 27, 2001
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 05/26/01
Hey ToySat, No sir, I don't remember that one but with Ole Glory flying off the front porch this week end my bride and I are just relaxing with miles and miles of memories. Some good and some sad but we are thankful for our freedoms of living in our great country and appreciate the sacrifices of those who were and are responsible. In the meantime, with the addition of my new wing tank, 14 gal, I've had to find and fashion a new fuel selector valve under the front tank between the front rudder pedals and remote it along the side to the rear cockpit. What a job. That was another week's work. I now have 30 1/2 gals capacity dreaming as to where I might go adventurously. Without the bride of course. Corky honeymooning in La ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Pictures
Date: May 27, 2001
Hola Amigos, I am on the Texas-Mexico border of the Lower Rio Grande Valley of South Texas. Yesterday I visited the Texas Air Museum at Rio Hondo, Texas. The museum is a certified 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation. The museum is one of the few remaining and historic museums to have full on-site restoration facilities. The museum is staffed entirely by volunteers, many from the ranks of retirees and "Winter Texans" who make the Valley home for all or part of the year. Check out the museum's web site at: http://www.texasairmuseum.addr.com/index.html Now what does all this have to do with PIETS and GN-1s? During the early 1900's, Pancho Villa was a key figure in the Mexican Revolution. His use of early aircraft and some of the tactics he developed are still in use today. The museum sponsors fly-ins and puts on various reenactments.....one of which is a dogfight which uses a Piet dressed up with machine guns and a replica biplane....in this case a Nieuport 11. Some of those pictures can be found at this web site: http://www.mcallen.lib.tx.us/orgs/TxAirMus.htm Yesterday, I took some pictures of the Piet as it sits in its static display area. It has a 90 hp. radial engine and Jenny gear. Now my question, where can I email these pictures where members of this discussion group can see them? If there is not a place, I could send them to individual members who ask. Would be cool if the museum would fly the PIET and its Baby Ace up the to Texas Fly-In. Have a fun and safe holiday weekend. Mike King GN-1 77MK Dallas, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 27, 2001
From: "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Pictures
Hey Mike; I'd love to see those pics. If you get a moment,could you e mail 'em to me at ignitor(at)qwest.net I'm planning on a round motor for my Piet. Muchas Gracias, Amigo Chris House Wilting in the Arizona heat and smilin' > Yesterday, I took some pictures of the Piet as it sits > in its static display area. It has a 90 hp. radial engine > and Jenny gear. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 27, 2001
From: Larry Neal <llneal(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Finally
Hello again folks, especially Richard 'd, Mike and Stevee, I'm back! This time though, I'm starting to cut wood instead of just talking about it. This will be a pretty much straight Piet with bungee gear, motorcycle wheels and corvair. There will be a couple of appearance and paint mods though. I intend it to look a bit like an early pylon racer. See you at Broadhead in 2008! Larry Neal -assembly table built and rib jig in the works- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pictures
Date: May 27, 2001
Chris, Que paso? Here are some pictures of the Texas Air Museum Piet exhibit. I will email some of them separately as not to take up some much download time. Gracias...Amigo. Miguel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pictures > > Hey Mike; > > I'd love to see those pics. If you get a moment,could you e mail 'em to me > at ignitor(at)qwest.net I'm planning on a round motor for my Piet. > > Muchas Gracias, Amigo > > Chris House > Wilting in the Arizona heat and smilin' > > > Yesterday, I took some pictures of the Piet as it sits > > in its static display area. It has a 90 hp. radial engine > > and Jenny gear. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mac Zirges" <macz(at)netbridge.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead visit
Date: May 27, 2001
Hello. Search on Brodhead under the Yahoo.com search engine--you will find lots of info about Brodhead area. Cordially, Mac in Oregon -----Original Message----- From: Ken Montoure <jkgm(at)ptialaska.net> Date: Friday, May 25, 2001 3:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead visit > >Can anyone suggest a decent motel or place to stay near Brodhead . Got >the tickets to Chicago, >then driving to the shindig. Should arrive sometime AM July 20th. Need >place to call home for three >nights. No camping equipment, only plastic. > >Ken in the Nawth. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lou Larsen" <pietlars(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead visit
Date: May 27, 2001
Ken: As Corky noted there are lots of motels in Janesville and also Beloit. We like Monroe WI, a smaller town about 15 miles West of Brodhead . As of last year there were no motels in Brodhead. If you can try to look at a AAA tour book for Wisconsin, it lists motels and restaurants in most towns. On to Brodhead!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Montoure" <jkgm(at)ptialaska.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead visit > > Can anyone suggest a decent motel or place to stay near Brodhead . Got > the tickets to Chicago, > then driving to the shindig. Should arrive sometime AM July 20th. Need > place to call home for three > nights. No camping equipment, only plastic. > > Ken in the Nawth. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Biplane
Date: May 28, 2001
I have a 73rd Anniversary copy of the The International Pietenpol Association News which appears to be a newletter out of Post Office Box 127, Blakesburg, Iowa published by Robert L. Taylor. On the cover is an illustration by the late Frank S. Pavliga of a 50 hp Gnome Powered Bi-Plane, B.H. Pietenpol's Second Ship. 1936. There apparently is or used to be an Airpower Museum Inc. located at Antique Airfield near Blakesburg, Iowa. The same newsletter has full color pictures of the Aerial biplane version of the GN-1 owned by Daniel Ward 1954 Thomas Road, Lexington, NC 27292 . An editors note says to contact Chad Wille, 1139 State Highway 148, Corning, IA 50841, ph 515-322-4041 for details, plans etc. Hope this helps. Dave Boyd, Champaign, IL Karl Edwin Garman Hi, I heard of a biplane Pietenpol known as an Aerial?. Does anyone know who offers plans for such an airplane or anything else about it? --Karl ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 28, 2001
Subject: Adventure
Adventurous Pieters, Caught avweb flashes today. 7.22a, which noted that time was running out on signing up for the Cayman Caravan flight from Key West to Cayman Island. Big week long air show there at their International. Better hurry. Corky will stay in La this year. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DonanClara(at)aol.com
Date: May 28, 2001
Subject: Re: Adventure
In a message dated 05/28/2001 4:39:43 PM Central Daylight Time, Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes: << Corky will stay in La this year. >> Yea Cork, but now we know what your plans are for all that extra fuel !!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
"Fishnet"
Subject: waxed lacing cord= mouse food?
Date: May 28, 2001
Did I hear somewhere not to use lacing cord with wax because mice love to eat it? We have a big mouse problem up in my area. walt ----------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James R. Carr" <hamkarr(at)hctc.com>
Subject: Re: Painting parts
Date: May 28, 2001
We used parlectone on control cables in the navy in the 50's. Zinc Chromate on aluminum and steel. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Painting parts > > Pieters, > If any of you old builders were here I would ask you, how is the best way to > paint the inside cockpit METAL parts. Push pull cables, gas tank, Alum, 4130 > control tubes etc. Would appreciate your know how on this subject. I have > plenty of zinc chromate and rust o leum. But, is there something better. > Corky in the flying South > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: May 29, 2001
Subject: Under fus. tail wire bracket
Hello Mike Cuy: I'm using your leaf spring tail wheel set up. I'm ready to install the tail wire strap under the fus. This strap is 9 1/2 ' ahead of the tail post which puts it between my 2 tail wheel spring bolts. The strap is 13 ga. and looks like it needs to be recessed into the lower ply gusset to clear the tw. spring or another couple of additional pieces of thin ply added to place the spring below the strap. Your drawings may show this, but the copier cropped the right side of page one which may have shown this. How did you handle this? Leon S. Hutchinson Ks. Working again after a month of burn out. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James R. Carr" <hamkarr(at)hctc.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Biplane
Date: May 29, 2001
Chad Willey of St. Croix Propellors near Beaverton OR as I recall. It was really a sesqueplane using a smaller lower wing with a shorter chord. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Edwin Garman <airplaneman77(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Biplane > > Hi, > > I heard of a biplane Pietenpol known as an "Aerial?". Does anyone know > who offers plans for such an airplane or anything else about it? > > --Karl > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 29, 2001
Subject: Rubber Bibs
Pieters I would like for my gas tanks a rubber apron, bib call it what you may that would be stretched over the filler neck and cover gap between neck and cowling. Is such a device offered by any of the supply houses? Corky getting close to filling those tanks in La ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: All that have contacted me...
All you Piet listers that have contacted me about the booksale and I have not gotten back to, expect an individual response tonite. I had a busy weekend and have set aside this evening to get back to you all. Chris Bobka Minneapolis ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Rubber Bibs
Actually, corky, what you buy at wag aero (they rip you off most of the time) to serve the function of the "rubber bib" is the same exact thing as a replacement seal that goes between the bowl and tank of your crapper. A hardware store item. Some are more rubber and others are more foam so it pays to look. Cost should be about three bucks. chris minneapolis ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Monroe to sleep
Lou Larsen is right----there are no motels in Brodhead. They did not have a McDonald's until about 4 years ago. We like staying in Monroe. Closer than Janesville. Camping on the airport is fine, but one shower for men, one for women. Sometimes you have to shower after midnight to find it open, but all worth it. Corky- skip your granddaughters wedding. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Under fus. tail wire bracket
Leon S ! As memory serves I did recess that area of the plywood on the bottom of the fuselage where that tail cable/wire brace bracket goes. You could also do like you mentioned though where you'd build up plywood on either side of it to make a flush surface to mount your tailsprings too. You bet. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: fuel neck seal
Corky- I just left that space between the fuel filler neck and tank open. There's only about a 1/8" to 1/4" gap on mine and a bit of spilled fuel will evaporate off. PS- For what it's worth Chris B. is right. Wag Aero is a big rip-off. Junk too. Only buy it there if you absolutely cannot get it anywhere else. Also------El Reno for Cont. engine parts. Ouch ! I use Fresno for Cont. parts and Eismann mag parts. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca>
Subject: Re: straight axle anti rotation methods
Date: May 29, 2001
Question for Mike Cuy How is your method of stopping the axle rotation working out? I have my wheels and axle done but haven't gotten as far as the assembly to the fuse yet. Your method seems to be the simplest I've seen. Thanks, J Mc ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2001
From: Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: straight axle anti rotation methods
Hi John, I agree with you. I'm nearly to the same stage myself and I've been doing a lot of thinking about the axle anti-rotation. I'm planning on using the same method Mike used. He obviously put a lot of thought into it. Jack Phillips ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "norman" <decou(at)govital.net>
Subject: list
Date: May 29, 2001
Thanks to all for the help. Please unsuscribe for now. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 29, 2001
Subject: Weight
You Pieters who have completed your plane. Do any of you remember or have it recorded the weight of everything BEFORE covering. I am at that stage today and have registered 525 on the scales. I don't know what to expect for covering weight. Sure would appreciate a come back on this one. Corky in La where it's beginning to feel a lot like summer. Misqistos, snakes, gators, coons, appossoms, nutria, a few black bear and all the other things we freeze and ship nawth. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2001
From: "Tom & Michelle Brant" <tmbrant(at)uswest.net>
Subject: New piet builder in mpls
Hi all, I am new to the list and am in the planning stages of building the Piet. I finally realized that there is no more affordable way to fly than to build a wooden airplane and there is no better wooden homebuilt than the Piet. I have looked over the list archives for answers to some questions but haven't been able to find complete answers, so I hope you all will bear with me as I ask some questions on topics that may have been covered before. If using the Corvair engine, you are supposed to lengthen the fuse... How much, and where? And does this mean more bracing or heavier longerons or both? I've seen a couple of different answers on this topic. I am building from the copies of the old 1932 flying and glider manual, redrawing what I need to in CAD. However, there are no plans for the steel landing gear. Where could I get plans for this? The big question... Where's the best place to buy spruce from? I am really getting excited to start the project. I am also building a Bearhawk but have found it difficult to get the welding done... My brother was helping me (an experienced welder) but he may be moving soon and his plans haven't allowed any time to work on it. The wooden plane is something I can build at home as I have many woodworking tools. Aorry for rambling guys.. Any help with above questions woud be greatly appreciated! Tom Brant, MLPS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: fuel neck seal
Do no overlook Robert Weber in Fresno as well. He advertises in Trade a Plane and his prices are better than Fresno Airparts. Yes indeed, Wag Aero and El Reno are awful. Chris Enjoying the cloudless skies and 65 degree temps in Minneapolis ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: The EAA Book Sale
---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Kirk & Laura Huizenga, INTERNET:kirkh@unique-software.com DATE: 5/27/01 9:52 PM RE: Re: The EAA Book Sale Chris, I just made a pdf file of the catalog if you want to use it. It is a little big (1.8megs), but might be a help for others. Check http://jove.prohosting.com/~kirkh/Catalog.pdf Kirk ----------------------- Internet Header -------------------------------- (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.3) with ESMTP id <B0005129598@unique_web.unique-software.com> for ; Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 21:05:28 -0500 From: Kirk & Laura Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com> Subject: Re: The EAA Book Sale ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ToySat(at)aol.com
Date: May 30, 2001
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 05/29/01
I've never seen a wedding at Broadhead. Hows bout it Corky? Ryder ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2001
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: New piet builder in mpls
welcome to the world of pietenpol'ers Tom. I live just across the river from you in new richmond wi. I would definately buy the plans from don Pietenpol, or his son lives right here in river falls. you can see his project and pick up the plans at the same time. It has the plans in it for the long fuselage with all of the new dimensions. It also has the split landing gear plans, I also have the flyin and gliding manual, I couldn't imagine building from that. the plans are hard enough. The best and cheapest place to buy wood is McCormick lumber from Madison. Its good wood and reasonable, ply from riteco in Texas is cheapest, lightest. it is hooppine from australia. If you are out in new richmond some day, I'll show you my project and plans. and you can go from there. Also order a tape from Mike Cuy, It is invaluable. Del from new richmond wi --- Tom & Michelle Brant wrote: > Michelle Brant" > > > Hi all, > > I am new to the list and am in the planning stages > of building the Piet. > I finally realized that there is no more affordable > way to fly than to > build a wooden airplane and there is no better > wooden homebuilt than the > Piet. I have looked over the list archives for > answers to some > questions but haven't been able to find complete > answers, so I hope you > all will bear with me as I ask some questions on > topics that may have > been covered before. > > If using the Corvair engine, you are supposed to > lengthen the fuse... > How much, and where? And does this mean more > bracing or heavier > longerons or both? I've seen a couple of different > answers on this > topic. > > I am building from the copies of the old 1932 flying > and glider manual, > redrawing what I need to in CAD. However, there are > no plans for the > steel landing gear. Where could I get plans for > this? > > The big question... Where's the best place to buy > spruce from? > > I am really getting excited to start the project. I > am also building a > Bearhawk but have found it difficult to get the > welding done... My > brother was helping me (an experienced welder) but > he may be moving soon > and his plans haven't allowed any time to work on > it. The wooden plane > is something I can build at home as I have many > woodworking tools. > > Aorry for rambling guys.. Any help with above > questions woud be greatly > appreciated! > > Tom Brant, MLPS > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2001
From: Kirk Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com>
Subject: Re: New piet builder in mpls
Welcome Tom, I'm in St Paul and rebuilding a Corvair powered Piet. I'd be glad to help with what I know about the Corvair end of things. Definitely check out: http://www.flycorvair.com and http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/ Andrew Pietenpol is near River Falls as Del says and he is a corvair guy too and sells all the plans you might need. Greg Cardinal and Dale Johnson(?, sorry Dale) are in town too and have an award winning project in the works that would be a major inspiration. You'll probably even change you mind about the metal gear after seeing there beautiful straight axle wood gear. Hope to meet you some time Kirk ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: straight axle anti rotation methods
> >Question for Mike Cuy > How is your method of stopping the axle rotation working out? I have my >wheels and axle done but haven't gotten as far as the assembly to the fuse >yet. Your method seems to be the simplest I've seen. >Thanks, >Jack- Just fine really. (much to my surprise !) The only problem I had >is when I was stupid enough to let a guy land it who said he had lots of Pitts time. He got it veering off to one side and when I took over it was too late. We went around to the left at a fairly slow speed but it still stretched the bungees to the limit and with the axle at that angle it bent that sides 4130 tube going down thru that collar it rides in. I removed the axle and welded a new tube on last winter. In general the idea works fine. In retrospect I might have drilled thru the axle there and just ran a nice long 1/2" bolt thru there or have threaded a rod on one end that could be removed or replaced in place. The thing I didn't want to do was drill that big of a hole in the thick-walled axle. It just seemed like it would introduce a weak spot at such a high stress area. Well, high stress on some of my landings anyway:) For those who might want to see what we are talking about I can e-mail a .jpg image around if you let me know off-line. Mike C. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KGardner(at)odu.edu
Subject: Re: New piet builder in mpls
Date: May 30, 2001
05/30/2001 10:07:12 AM Hi Tom, Welcome to the list. I'm in the 'late-planning' stage myself, although right now everything is on hold until I get moved this summer. Boy, I'm envious of you having all that help nearby! I couldn't agree with Del more about the plans - give Andrew a call & go see him to get your set. Get the whole set, including the 3-piece wing plans, even if you're not sure that's what you're going to do; that's what I did & I'm glad I did, there's useful information no matter what configuration you choose. Also, get a copy of William Wynne's Corvair conversion manaual. I visited him too & again I'm glad I did. Even if you decide to go with Bernie's standard conversion, there is useful information in William's manual (little tips like how to modify the spark plug holes on the inside of the heads to prevent carbon buildup that could lead to detonation, the right kind of plugs to use, etc.) If you've looked through the archive you will learn that William is often difficult to get ahold of, but his conversion is top-notch & he's usually pretty good about sending out the manual, if not some of the parts he sells. When you get to the point of really working on the motor, you might consider making the trip down to Fla. to participate in his no-cost (other than your own cost for room & board) conversion workshop over Memorial Day weekend. I think working with William works best if you make the effort to go to him. Regrads & good luck! Kip Gardner down in the 'northern South' Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences Old Dominion University Norfolk, VA 23529 Ph: 757-683-5654 Bumper Sticker of the Week: "Illiterate? Write for Free Help Now!" (An 'oldie' from the 60's sent by a friend) welcome to the world of pietenpol'ers Tom. I live just across the river from you in new richmond wi. I would definately buy the plans from don Pietenpol, or his son lives right here in river falls. you can see his project and pick up the plans at the same time. It has the plans in it for the long fuselage with all of the new dimensions. It also has the split landing gear plans, I also have the flyin and gliding manual, I couldn't imagine building from that. the plans are hard enough. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2001
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com>
Subject: Re: New piet builder in mpls
Tom, Where in Minneapolis are you? I live near Lake Nokomis. Dale Johnson and I are building a Piet at Dale's workshop just off Cedar Ave. in Burnsville and we would be more than happy to talk to you. We are very close to the covering phase and this would be a good time for you to see the project. Call me anytime. Greg Cardinal 612 721-6235 (home) 612 673-7540 (work) >>> "Tom & Michelle Brant" 05/29 11:58 PM >>> Hi all, I am new to the list and am in the planning stages of building the Piet. I finally realized that there is no more affordable way to fly than to build a wooden airplane and there is no better wooden homebuilt than the Piet. I have looked over the list archives for answers to some questions but haven't been able to find complete answers, so I hope you all will bear with me as I ask some questions on topics that may have been covered before. If using the Corvair engine, you are supposed to lengthen the fuse... How much, and where? And does this mean more bracing or heavier longerons or both? I've seen a couple of different answers on this topic. I am building from the copies of the old 1932 flying and glider manual, redrawing what I need to in CAD. However, there are no plans for the steel landing gear. Where could I get plans for this? The big question... Where's the best place to buy spruce from? I am really getting excited to start the project. I am also building a Bearhawk but have found it difficult to get the welding done... My brother was helping me (an experienced welder) but he may be moving soon and his plans haven't allowed any time to work on it. The wooden plane is something I can build at home as I have many woodworking tools. Aorry for rambling guys.. Any help with above questions woud be greatly appreciated! Tom Brant, MLPS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: New piet builder in mpls
Date: May 30, 2001
I suggest you buy the long fuselage prints. It was designed for the corvair engine. All your other questions will answered too. MikeB Piet N 687MB ( Mr Sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: New piet builder in mpls
Date: May 30, 2001
Hi Tom, Welcome to the list. Info central furshure. I am also building a corvair piet. I lengthened my motor mount 3 inches. Nice thing about the piet is you can move that wing to dial you in. I might suggest getting Mike Cuy's video. Lot of good stuff in it. Tony Bingelis books will help a great deal also. Carl Please visit my website at www.megsinet.net/skycarl -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom & Michelle Brant Subject: Pietenpol-List: New piet builder in mpls Hi all, I am new to the list and am in the planning stages of building the Piet. I finally realized that there is no more affordable way to fly than to build a wooden airplane and there is no better wooden homebuilt than the Piet. I have looked over the list archives for answers to some questions but haven't been able to find complete answers, so I hope you all will bear with me as I ask some questions on topics that may have been covered before. If using the Corvair engine, you are supposed to lengthen the fuse... How much, and where? And does this mean more bracing or heavier longerons or both? I've seen a couple of different answers on this topic. I am building from the copies of the old 1932 flying and glider manual, redrawing what I need to in CAD. However, there are no plans for the steel landing gear. Where could I get plans for this? The big question... Where's the best place to buy spruce from? I am really getting excited to start the project. I am also building a Bearhawk but have found it difficult to get the welding done... My brother was helping me (an experienced welder) but he may be moving soon and his plans haven't allowed any time to work on it. The wooden plane is something I can build at home as I have many woodworking tools. Aorry for rambling guys.. Any help with above questions woud be greatly appreciated! Tom Brant, MLPS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2001
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: list
That is also a "do it yourself" task... not as dificult as building a plane, only follow the instructions in the bottom of every message... Saludos Gary Gower --- norman wrote: > > > Thanks to all for the help. Please unsuscribe for > now. > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Piet wts
Date: May 30, 2001
Somebody asked about the wts of Piet component parts. I found the following in my files. Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) From: "norman" <decou(at)govital.net>
Subject: removal from e-mail list
Date: May 30, 2001
I would like to thank everyone for their assistance. I have a new address and am on it and would like to have this one removed from further mail Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2001
From: "Tom & Michelle Brant" <tmbrant(at)uswest.net>
Subject: new builder's thanks to all
Geez, I didn't expect such a positive response... The groups I've subscribed to before generally don't like it if you ask a question that's been asked before. Thanks to all of you for your support and answering my repetetive questions. For those who asked, I live in the Follwell neighborhood in MPLS. That's just off why 94 near Brooklyn Park. I will be calling those who offered their numbers, so don't be surprised to be harrassed. I am planning to build from the manual but if needed will buy the plans as mentioned. I will definately buy the longer fuse plans as mentioned. Here's another repetetive question for you all... How much weight can a corvair powered Piet carry. I weigh about 210 and typical passengers I would carry are in the neighborhood of 200-250 lbs. Is this possible? The archives have many differing opinions on this. One guy mentioned that he was 260 lbs and he typically carried a 200 pounder up front with gas for an hours flight with reserve. Anyway, thanks to all who responded! It's great to feel welcome in the group! Tom Brant, MLPS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Tom Brant's new Piet
Date: May 30, 2001
Hey Tom, glad you're starting a Piet. Regarding spruce, Aircraft Spruce and Specialty is great. Everything you buy is graded and cut well. Yes, you'll pay a bit more but what I got sent was ready to use and of great quality. They even sent me the 3/4" spars in only 4 weeks or so which isn't too bad considering it was such a long piece of wood. Also, get a set of plans in addition to using the F&G manual. Cheers, Jeff in Texas trying to find time to work on the Piet as well as a 1943 Stinson and two antique boats. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: new builder's thanks to all
Date: May 30, 2001
Hi Tom We are having a meeting of a newly formed EAA chapter at Crystal Airport on Wed, June 13. We will be going to my hangar on the East Side of the airport at about 7:30, I'll be showing the group my Piet in progress. Stop by if you can. We meet initially at 7:00 on the side of the field off of Co Rd. 81 turn in at the old Embers Restaurant, follow access road to the first gate on the left, go to Alpha - 3, the Uni Systems hangar. Or, at 7:30 we are going to my hangar Delta 7 - C, enter off of Bass Lake Rd., next to the VFW Hope to See you Dick Navratil ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom & Michelle Brant <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: new builder's thanks to all > > Geez, I didn't expect such a positive response... The groups I've > subscribed to before generally don't like it if you ask a question > that's been asked before. Thanks to all of you for your support and > answering my repetetive questions. For those who asked, I live in the > Follwell neighborhood in MPLS. That's just off why 94 near Brooklyn > Park. I will be calling those who offered their numbers, so don't be > surprised to be harrassed. I am planning to build from the manual but > if needed will buy the plans as mentioned. I will definately buy the > longer fuse plans as mentioned. Here's another repetetive question for > you all... How much weight can a corvair powered Piet carry. I weigh > about 210 and typical passengers I would carry are in the neighborhood > of 200-250 lbs. Is this possible? The archives have many differing > opinions on this. One guy mentioned that he was 260 lbs and he > typically carried a 200 pounder up front with gas for an hours flight > with reserve. > > Anyway, thanks to all who responded! It's great to feel welcome in the > group! > > Tom Brant, MLPS > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca>
Subject: Re: straight axle anti rotation methods
Date: May 30, 2001
Just one more question Mike: What wall thickness is your axle tube? I used 0.090" for mine. Even at that it seems pretty hefty. John Mc ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Straight axle wall thickness
John- I used 1 1/4" outside diameter 4130 for my gear and the ID was around 0.160 or so. I know.....kind of thick, but I just measured what Frank Pavliga and his father have on Sky Gypsy since they had good luck with that size. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Straight axle wall thickness
John--- I said 1 1/4" OD but you know it might just be 1 1/2" OD. I forget now it's been so long ! Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: new builder's thanks to all
From: KGardner(at)odu.edu
Date: May 31, 2001
05/31/2001 11:40:03 AM Tom, At the risk of sounding repetitive, buy the plans, buy ALL the plans, they are going to be a minor part of your total expense in building this plane! A few years ago, Don Pietenpol compiled all the Flying & Glider Manual articles into a 'Construction Handbook' that he sells as part of the plans package. In it he states that he did some editing to CORRECT MISTAKES and OMMISSIONS. Also, I believe that there have been several corrections to the actual plans themselves since the F & G Manuals were published (I don't have them in front of me, but I think all of my copies have a note on them that says something like 'Corrected 1967, DPP'). Also, hook up with all those guys in Mpls. I've learned in my short time as part of the homebuilt aviation community that people are almost itching to help out others. On the subject of weight, I'm not the expert, being a midget myself, but I'll throw this out to stimulate conversation. You may want to consider a more powerful engine. William Wynne says his Corvair conversion develops 100hp tops & 90 hp continuous (cruise). He also has an option for using larger VW pistons and he says the numbers go to 125/110hp. Other possibilities might include going to one of the larger Lycomings (Mike Cuy & I were trading jokes about using an O-290 just yesterday - that's probably too big, but maybe an O-235?). One other possiblity might be another auto conversion, like a Subaru. From what I've heard, Stratus does the best job on the EA-81 conversion (100hp). There's also an outfit in the Canadian northwest that does Honda conversions (www.firewall.ca), but they seem to be revamping their web page & there's currently no information on it. That's my 2 cents' worth! Kip Gardner Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences Old Dominion University Norfolk, VA 23529 Ph: 757-683-5654 Bumper Sticker of the Week: "Illiterate? Write for Free Help Now!" (An 'oldie' from the 60's sent by a friend) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2001
From: Wayne M <mwmp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: New to MPLS
Hi Tom, Welcome to the list. I have a limited supply of spruce and also sell Marine and Aircraft Grade plywood right here in Eagan. I usually lurk in the background and get my aircraft building fix vicariously through Dale and Greg and their Piet. If you are not already a member, join an EAA local. You get all kinds of support there. You also say you are working on a Bearhawk ? I have a friend in Lakeville that is also. Get in touch with me if I can be of any help. Wayne Meier Midwest Marine Plywood Eagan, MN 651-882-9704 --- Tom & Michelle Brant wrote: > Michelle Brant" > > > Hi all, > > I am new to the list and am in the planning stages > of building the Piet. > I finally realized that there is no more affordable > way to fly than to > <<< snip>>> > The big question... Where's the best place to buy > spruce from? > > I am really getting excited to start the project. I > am also building a > Bearhawk but have found it difficult to get the > welding done... My <<< snip >>> > Aorry for rambling guys.. Any help with above > questions woud be greatly > appreciated! > > Tom Brant, MLPS > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2001
From: "Tom & Michelle Brant" <tmbrant(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: new builder's thanks to all
Sounds Great! I was hoping a chapter would form at Crystal, that is where I fly out of... Northland Aircraft Services is where I rent planes. I had been a member of 878 out at Maple Lake but that is too far to drive to. The only reason I was out there is because my brother lives there and had gotten me interested. Hopefully I'll remember the date and time.... Would love to see your project. I just bought a band saw tonight for 25 bucks. It's an oldie but goodie from my uncle. Now I just need to set up a table to build on in the garage and I'll be ready to go. I've been getting a lot of advice on getting a set of plans rather than trying to build from the old F & G manuals. Probably a good idea... I'm just cheap guy I guess. It sounds like a lot of the plans mistakes are covered though. Tom B. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: new builder's thanks to all > > Hi Tom > We are having a meeting of a newly formed EAA chapter at Crystal Airport on > Wed, June 13. We will be going to my hangar on the East Side of the airport > at about 7:30, I'll be showing the group my Piet in progress. Stop by if > you can. We meet initially at 7:00 on the side of the field off of Co Rd. > 81 turn in at the old Embers Restaurant, follow access road to the first > gate on the left, go to Alpha - 3, the Uni Systems hangar. Or, at 7:30 we > are going to my hangar Delta 7 - C, enter off of Bass Lake Rd., next to the > VFW > Hope to See you > Dick Navratil > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Stainless Steel?
From: KGardner(at)odu.edu
Date: Jun 01, 2001
06/01/2001 11:04:05 AM Hi List, As I continue my reading & planning, I have seen very little reference to using stainless steel for the metal fittings & fasteners. Does anyone have any advice on this? I assume that there are ss equivalents of 4130 and AN hardware? I know that in marine applications, we generally have to beef up dimensions by 10-20% to use stainless. I also assume it's going to be more expensive. I keep having this fantasy of not worrying about corrosion & showing off beautiful satin-finish ss parts. Cheers! Kip Gardner Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences Old Dominion University Norfolk, VA 23529 Ph: 757-683-5654 Bumper Sticker of the Week: "Illiterate? Write for Free Help Now!" (An 'oldie' from the 60's sent by a friend) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rodger & Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Subject: Re: Straight axle wall thickness
Date: Jun 01, 2001
> > John- I used 1 1/4" outside diameter 4130 for my gear and the ID was > around 0.160 or so. I know.....kind of thick, but I just measured what Frank > Pavliga and his father have on Sky Gypsy since they had good luck with that > size. > > Mike C. > Mike, I'm confused, an axle of 1 1/4" OD with an ID of 0.160 would leave a wall thickness of 0.545"! I wonder how you had the 0.160 hole drilled thru it? Rodger From Bandera who just had to ask. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rodger & Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Subject: Re: Stainless Steel?
Date: Jun 01, 2001
Ref: Stainless Steel fittings and fasteners? Kip writes: "...I know that in marine applications, we generally have to beef up dimensions by 10-20% to use stainless. " Beautiful yes, but also 10 - 20% heavier too for those pieces. And the Piet is over built as it is... sigh. Rodger One piece winged Piet in progress ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Straight axle wall thickness
Rodger--No....I'm the one who's confused:)) I meant to say the axle OD is 1 1/2"-16 threaded......with a wall thickness of .16 or better now that I looked closer. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Jun 01, 2001
Subject: Stainless steel
Kip: Go with 4130 if you are worried about corrosion. BHP used mild steel, but 4130 is much stronger and more corrosion resistant. PS. To the new lister Mpls: Del said "forget the F&G plans, the improved plans are HARD enough" If I can put a word in Del's mouth: "the improved plans are BAD enough" Get Mike Cuy's tape and take note that when he says most all of the fittings could stand to be a little longer for bolt clearance. Leon S. Bi$#@ing about the plans in KS. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 01, 2001
Subject: Brakes
Will pass on to builders a little experience for what it might be worth. Several months ago I fought the brake problem and wasted, or should I say experimented, for about 5 weeks. Thought I had it licked. Used Cessna cylinders with Bill's toe brake system. I then ran plastic tubing through the side of fuse and down to a point at the rear strut to join with an aluminum tube to the wheel cyl. Thought this would minimum the stuff inside the cockpits. Charged the system with the red stuff and I had great parking brakes. (Thats all I want the brakes for as any pilot who would think about controling his creation using brakes might better try sailing) Soooo What is the point!!!!!!!!!!!! Today I noticed some red stuff on the side of the fuse which would be under fabric had I continued this arrangement. Luckily it leaked and warned me of a bad design. Sooooo I now have the short flexibe line from the brake cyl to the alum tube which is now poking its head through a hole in the floor and running back to the strut. If it leaks I can get to it and rectify the problem. Hope this little warning saves someone a little time. Corky in beautiful La ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Brakes
Date: Jun 01, 2001
Corky, Thanks for that heads-up. I'll remember to use the aluminum tubing like you said, if I decide to use hydraulic brakes. I may still do some sort of mechanical brakes. That is, if I ever get the gear figured out! Keep a building! Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "norman" <decou(at)govital.net>
Subject: Re: Stainless steel
Date: Jun 01, 2001
My son has a new e-mail address. Could someone tell me how to get off the pietnpol list. thank you. Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" <leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stainless steel Stefan) > > Kip: Go with 4130 if you are worried about corrosion. BHP used mild > steel, but 4130 is much stronger and more corrosion resistant. > PS. To the new lister Mpls: Del said "forget the F&G plans, the > improved plans are HARD enough" If I can put a word in Del's mouth: "the > improved plans are BAD enough" Get Mike Cuy's tape and take note that > when he says most all of the fittings could stand to be a little longer > for bolt clearance. Leon S. Bi$#@ing about the plans in KS. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lou Larsen" <pietlars(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Stainless Steel?
Date: Jun 01, 2001
Concerning Stainless; I had the same concept of using stainless on the exposed items where possible. However I had already fabricated all on my fittings out of 4130. Having access to some stainless I have made my lift strut brace cable fittings out of stainless and installed them with stainless bolts and nuts.. I don't think relative strength of stainless vs 4130 is a big deal. Remember this is an old design which originally used 1025. In making my fittings I do a quick equivilent area comparison and , i.e. shear area of the bolt vs the cross section of the fitting and its usually at least twice as much which should easily handle any tensile strength stress. And yes they do look nice . I find that when I made a 4130 fitting, applied rustcure, primer and finish coat, then installed it , it was all scratched up anyway. I'm using aluminum struts, lift and cabanes and that will eliminate some more painting too. I may rework the stab and vertical fin brace fitting in stainless too. Also got some stainless wire for the braces, about .060 dia. Just another way of skinning the cat. Lou Larsen ----- Original Message ----- From: <KGardner(at)odu.edu> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stainless Steel? > > > Hi List, > > As I continue my reading & planning, I have seen very little reference to > using stainless steel for the metal fittings & fasteners. Does anyone have > any advice on this? I assume that there are ss equivalents of 4130 and AN > hardware? I know that in marine applications, we generally have to beef up > dimensions by 10-20% to use stainless. I also assume it's going to be more > expensive. I keep having this fantasy of not worrying about corrosion & > showing off beautiful satin-finish ss parts. > > Cheers! > > Kip Gardner > Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences > Old Dominion University > Norfolk, VA 23529 > > Ph: 757-683-5654 > > Bumper Sticker of the Week: > > "Illiterate? Write for Free Help Now!" > (An 'oldie' from the 60's sent by a friend) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mckellars" <mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net>
Subject: Corvair College
Date: Jun 01, 2001
Hi Guys, I attended William Wynne's Corvair College last weekend returning to Tx. Tues. night. I had a great time while there meeting several Corvair engine builders and riding in Williams Corvair powered Piet. William and Kevin worked like dogs to help everyone that was there. I took my engine parts less an OT 10 cam and gear and 60 over forged pistons which W.W. was able to provide me with. Thanks to William and Kevins hard work and determination, I left Port Orange Tues. with a complete 110 HP Corvair engine. You guys who are planning on using the Corvair should take advantage of Williams generosity and attend the next Corvair college. The cost to attend is $ 0.00 . After attending ,I am totally sold on W.W. and his Corvair engine. See ya Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2001
Subject: Replicraft Hardware
From: Chris Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com>
Go and take a look at the way Replicraft ( http://www.replicraftaviation.com/ ) has redesigned the parts for the Piet. Don't get me wrong, I have heard a lot of good things about the quality of the parts from Replicraft. I don't know how to weld and don't own the equipment so I am VERY tempted to buy the welded parts from some one. My question is do the redesigned parts look/sound strong enough. I can't afford to buy them but I want a quality weld and I think it will end up costing about the same if I tried to do it my self plus I would have ugly looking parts. I unfortunately don't know any one who welds so it's pay or pray (pay for the good parts or pray my sucky welds hold). Chris Sacramento, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2001
Subject: Control Deflections
From: Chris Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com>
I got this off the UK Aircamper web site (see down below). If you haven't been there yet give them a look. http://www.flyerworld.com/shenty/ukaircampers/ The AJ at the bottom is Alan James who built a piet called G-BUCO. I wish we could have cool registrations like they do in Europe. One guy even got G-SLOW and another has G-PIET. Also I have a side view and top view of a piet formatted for MS Paint ( ie it's a Bitmap file). I have one for the Ford engine and one for the Aircraft engine I can do one for the Corvair if some one needs it. I have been having way to much fun playing with color scheme. Let me know if you want me to send it to you so you can play too. Any one want to do some welding for me or come to California and teach me? Chris Sacramento, CA Control Deflections I had 3 calls in quick succession earlier this year from people asking about the amount of control movement they should build in to the Pietenpol. Sounds to me like several builders are going to finish at about the same time! Anyway - here's what I can tell you. Elevators: 20 degrees up/15-20 degrees down. I've run out of elevator before now in a machine with something less than 20 degrees up and found myself almost bending the stick trying to get a decent break during a stall test. Don't be tempted to add any more - 20 degrees up is perfect. Rudder: I have fitted stops to retain 1" clearance between rudder and elevator at full deflection on G-BUCO. This works fine for me. Ailerons: You don't want the down-going aileron spar to clout against the wing. I've fitted blocks to the fuselage floor under the ends of the aileron bellcrank to act as stops. They allow a gap of about " between the wing and the bottom edge of a closed aileron. And whilst we are talking ailerons, tape over the gap on the upper surface during covering - it lightens the stick load considerably. AJ. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Woodflier(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 02, 2001
Subject: re: Replicraft fittings
Regarding the metal parts and fittings from Replicraft, I bought all the metal fittings they sell for the 3-piece wing. The quality of the welds and parts overall is excellent. They are not inexpensive, though. My one complaint is that they followed the original plans for the flying strut attachment fitting rather than the revised plan, so the fitting is at an acute angle to the strut rather than the revised, and longer, fitting which is in line with the strut. But the old design worked OK for 50 years... I am working on the steel parts for the control sticks, rudder bar and pedals and bellcrank. I just want to try and build as much of the airplane myself as I can. I took the EAA Sportair gas welding workshop in February, so I'm going to try and put what I learned to the test. Matt Paxton Lexington, VA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DonanClara(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 02, 2001
Subject: Re: Stainless steel
In a message dated 06/01/2001 7:16:28 PM Central Daylight Time, decou(at)govital.net writes: My son has a new e-mail address. Could someone tell me how to get off the pietnpol list. thank you. Norm >> Norman....scroll down to the bottom of any message on the Piet list and click on the "subscribe" line. Type in "unsubscribe". ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NormDecou(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 02, 2001
Subject: McCormicks Lumber in Madison
Hi, someone mentioned McCormicks in Madison as a source for lumber(Del?). I would like to know they would have a ballpark figure for the cost of a wood package from this source or an E-mail or web site so I could contact them directly. Thankyou Norm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 2001
Subject: Re: McCormicks Lumber in Madison
From: Chris Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com>
http://www.mccormicklumber.com/ You will have to figure out what you need and Email them to get the current price quote. Chris Sacramento, CA > > Hi, someone mentioned McCormicks in Madison as a source for > lumber(Del?). I > would like to know they would have a ballpark figure for the cost of > a wood > package from this source or an E-mail or web site so I could contact > them > directly. > Thankyou Norm > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 2001
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: McCormicks Lumber in Madison
sure thing last time I bought from them, it was 9.00/bd ft. so a 16 ft 1x6 would cost 54.00. there are no wood packages, you just buy them in boards, I think you need about (8) 1x6x16's. they stock the wood for sailboats and so they are not yellow tagged. but the quality is the same. the wood I recieved was better than minimum standards by a good margin. of course you will need a delta table top planer (300.00) and a table saw to work it down to the sizes you need. del --- NormDecou(at)aol.com wrote: > NormDecou(at)aol.com > > Hi, someone mentioned McCormicks in Madison as a > source for lumber(Del?). I > would like to know they would have a ballpark figure > for the cost of a wood > package from this source or an E-mail or web site so > I could contact them > directly. > Thankyou Norm > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 02, 2001
Subject: Leaks
Pieters, If anyone has a solution to seal hydralic fittings from leaking please sound off. I go from alum cyls to brass fittings, to plastic tubing to brass again then to alum caps and alum tubing. I need a good mastic of some kind. The worst leaks are at the cyl to the first fitting. I even tried J B Weld to no avail. Corky in leakie La ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: McCormicks Lumber in Madison
Date: Jun 02, 2001
I bought my spar stock from them. They have rough stock only. Great quality but mostly in 1x6 to 1x10 up to 20' long. They are very good about letting you sort thru things. Also, I bought my fittings from Replicraft. I am very happy with the quality. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: <NormDecou(at)aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: McCormicks Lumber in Madison > > Hi, someone mentioned McCormicks in Madison as a source for lumber(Del?). I > would like to know they would have a ballpark figure for the cost of a wood > package from this source or an E-mail or web site so I could contact them > directly. > Thankyou Norm > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Jun 03, 2001
Subject: Replicraft
Anyone using Replicraft should be aware that he uses the 1929 plans. I bought a set of eng. mounts for the Ford A and just like everything else on the Piet plans, they are built wrong. Not the fault of Steve at Replicraft, He was just building to the plans. The 29 plans show a 2 1/2 in. drop in the motor mount. The 33 plans show 1 in. drop. The 1 in drop comes out to about 2 1/2 degree. I think someone got there unit of measurements mixed up. If you drop the Ford 2 1/2 in at the nose along with a 72" prop, you are looking at a prop strike. None of the pictures of early Piet's appear to have more engine drop than later built Piets. Leon S. looking at a box of "to the plans" left over parts. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Leaks
Date: Jun 02, 2001
La Leakie; I'm not sure if you're using a combo of standard AN aircraft hardware, brass fittings and auto hardware, but be aware that the flares on aircraft tubing and automotive tubing are different. I can't remember exact numbers, but AN is something like 45 degrees and auto is 37 degrees or something like that. Also, you might try coating the threads with a product called "Fuel Lube". This is a good fuel/oil resistant, thick, lubricant that will seal leaky threads and/or fittings. If all else fails, 'tighten it 'till it smokes and back off a half a turn'. See ya in the Caymans....... Chris House Smilin' cause we be buildin' Piet ribs in tomorrow and I ran my Waco today after a total rewire....(without a meltdown) ----- Original Message ----- From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leaks > > Pieters, > If anyone has a solution to seal hydralic fittings from leaking please sound > off. I go from alum cyls to brass fittings, to plastic tubing to brass again > then to alum caps and alum tubing. I need a good mastic of some kind. The > worst leaks are at the cyl to the first fitting. I even tried J B Weld to no > avail. > Corky in leakie La > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Jun 03, 2001
Subject: Al. cabane struts
Hello Lou Larsen. How did you go about fastening the bushing in the top and bottom of your aluminum cabane struts? Thanks Leon S. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Leaks
Date: Jun 03, 2001
Corky, In my experience as an auto mechanic I have never heard of any sealant being successful to stop leaks in an hydrolic brake system. All fittings are a mechanical seal relying on the perfect mateing of the joints to prevent leakage under pressure. You mention using plastic hose. Plastic is sometimes used in hydrolic clutch systems as they operate under a much lower pressure than braking systems. I have not come across plastic tubing being used in brakes before. Make sure all your fittings are compatible with the master and slave cylinders.(thread and cone angles) Cheers, Rod W. still playing with wood in West Aussie. >From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leaks >Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 18:36:20 EDT > > >Pieters, >If anyone has a solution to seal hydralic fittings from leaking please >sound >off. Corky in leakie La > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2001
From: david kowell <dkowell(at)cstone.net>
Subject: Re: Leaks
sorry but it is the other way around aircraft 37.5 auto 45 for flair fittings Ignitor wrote: > > La Leakie; > > I'm not sure if you're using a combo of standard AN aircraft hardware, brass > fittings and auto hardware, but be aware that the flares on aircraft tubing > and automotive tubing are different. I can't remember exact numbers, but AN > is something like 45 degrees and auto is 37 degrees or something like that. > Also, you might try coating the threads with a product called "Fuel Lube". > This is a good fuel/oil resistant, thick, lubricant that will seal leaky > threads and/or fittings. If all else fails, 'tighten it 'till it smokes and > back off a half a turn'. > > See ya in the Caymans....... > > Chris House > Smilin' cause we be buildin' Piet ribs in tomorrow and I ran my Waco today > after a total rewire....(without a meltdown) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com> > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 3:36 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leaks > > > > > Pieters, > > If anyone has a solution to seal hydralic fittings from leaking please > sound > > off. I go from alum cyls to brass fittings, to plastic tubing to brass > again > > then to alum caps and alum tubing. I need a good mastic of some kind. The > > worst leaks are at the cyl to the first fitting. I even tried J B Weld to > no > > avail. > > Corky in leakie La > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Leaks
Date: Jun 03, 2001
Thanks David, I wasn't sure which way it worked....... Chris House Smilin' ----- Original Message ----- From: david kowell <dkowell(at)cstone.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leaks > > sorry but it is the other way around aircraft 37.5 auto 45 for flair fittings > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2001
From: david kowell <dkowell(at)cstone.net>
Subject: Re: Leaks
while we are on brakes what is the bore size on the master cyls I was tkinking of using clutch master cyls off a toyota whitch are 5/8 for my 6x6 cleavlands david kowell Ignitor wrote: > > Thanks David, I wasn't sure which way it worked....... > > Chris House > Smilin' > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: david kowell <dkowell(at)cstone.net> > To: > Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 6:50 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leaks > > > > > sorry but it is the other way around aircraft 37.5 auto 45 for flair > fittings > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 03, 2001
Subject: No leak brakes
Pieters, Thanks for the help. The fitting off a Cessna cyl MUST have a flange and an O RING Nuff said. Kind of embarrising to have advertised my ignorance on the net but sometime when you get a few years on you you end up with your head up your . Corky in La acting like a poor joob bird. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2001
From: Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Stainless Steel?
HI Kip, You can use stainless if you wish, but it's expensive, doesn't work as easily as 4130, is difficult to weld and is not as strong. You will still want to paint the exposed fittings so they match the rest of the airplane. I would suggest using 4130 and painting it with a good epoxy primer such as Poly-Fiber's epxoy primer or Randolph's Epibond primer. Once that stuff cures, the only way to get it off is to sandblast it, and even that is hard to do. As the Materials Engineer told me when I was a young engineer working for General Dynamics on the design of the F-16 "remember that stainless steels are NOT rust proof. They just don't rust as fast as other steels do." There are some high strength heat-treatable grades of stainless steel, notably the 400 series stainlesses. However, I've had quite a bit of experience with them and if they are not properly heat treated, they have even less corrosion resistance than regular mild steel. As I recall, they need to be heat treated in a vacuum furnace. The 300 series stainless are not heat-treatable and can only be hardened by cold working. If you started with annealed material so you could form the bends required in a lot of these fittings, the unbent portions would be too soft to have much strength. If you used hardened material, you might not be able to form the bends without cracking the metal. In other words, you can do it if you wish, but 4130 works fine, has very good corrosion resistance and welds very nicely. Good Luck, Jack ------Original Message------ From: KGardner(at)odu.edu Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stainless Steel? Hi List, As I continue my reading & planning, I have seen very little reference to using stainless steel for the metal fittings & fasteners. Does anyone have any advice on this? I assume that there are ss equivalents of 4130 and AN hardware? I know that in marine applications, we generally have to beef up dimensions by 10-20% to use stainless. I also assume it's going to be more expensive. I keep having this fantasy of not worrying about corrosion & showing off beautiful satin-finish ss parts. Cheers! Kip Gardner Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences Old Dominion University Norfolk, VA 23529 Ph: 757-683-5654 Bumper Sticker of the Week: "Illiterate? Write for Free Help Now!" (An 'oldie' from the 60's sent by a friend) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2001
From: Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Replicraft Hardware
Chris Tracey wrote: "...I don't know how to weld and don't own the equipment so I am VERY tempted to buy the welded parts from someone." Chris I would advise you to either take a Sportair workshop on welding or go to Oshkosh this summer and take a welding course. You can learn everything you need to be able to make quality welds in a weekend. You can buy all the equipment you need for about $300. I didn't know how to weld when I started this project, but have really come to enjoy welding and find it one of the most satisfying activities in building. Good Luck, Jack ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Battle of Midway
Date: Jun 04, 2001
Piet builders, I just wanted to remind everyone that today is the 59th anniversary of the Battle of Midway, which lasted from June 4th - June 7 1942. We all know what happened, and why it's important, suffice it to say, that had the US Navy not prevailed, the world today might look very different from what it does now. We might not have had the freedom to build and fly our Piets, nor anything else for that matter. I thought I'd mention it. Gary Meadows Spring, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2001
From: vernon lemaster <vlemas(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Battle of Midway
AMEN TO THAT, BROTHER. I WAS AGE 9 WHEN P HARBOR WAS ATTACKED. I FOLLOWED THE WAR THRU THE NEWSPAPER. TOO MANY PEOPLE TAKE OUR FREEDOMS FOR GRANTED. -VERN- --- Gary Meadows wrote: > > > Piet builders, > > I just wanted to remind everyone that today is the > 59th anniversary of the > Battle of Midway, which lasted from June 4th - June > 7 1942. We all know what > happened, and why it's important, suffice it to say, > that had the US Navy > not prevailed, the world today might look very > different from what it does > now. We might not have had the freedom to build and > fly our Piets, nor > anything else for that matter. > > I thought I'd mention it. > > Gary Meadows > Spring, TX > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: negative g-loads---Piet
Date: Jun 04, 2001
Mine has them. Steve E -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: negative g-loads---Piet Larry- Steve E. also used extruded alum lift struts on his Salt Lake to Oskosh & return Piet. Did he use jury struts ? Saw the plane in person, but cannot recall if he had jury struts or not. In my 197 hours of Piet flying I have encountered TONS of negative turbulence. This airplane acts more like a sailplane on hot x-country days. Lightly loaded wing, man....even in clear air you sometimes get a negative jolt that makes you re-grip your stick lower down. If I'd not had my seat belt on I would have come clean out of the cockpit. This is when you throttle back and try to ride out the bumps or land. It's like a cork in a bathtub on turbulent days. Even with my jury struts the struts and X wires set up a visible vibration at mid-span during certain throttle settings. I just look out and tweak the throttle up or down a titch to make it go away. I vote for (I know it's more work....) installing em. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2001
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: B17/Mr Sam
Date: Jun 04, 2001
ineresting pic, at least I think so. communites.msn.com/mbrusilow ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: MR Sam/B17
Date: Jun 04, 2001
http://communities.msn.com/mbrusilow ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Stainless Steel?
From: KGardner(at)odu.edu
Date: Jun 05, 2001
06/05/2001 11:43:58 AM Hi List, Thanks to everyone who put in their thoughts on this topic. It sounds like it's one of those 'it's nice in theory, but...' kind of deals. Jack, thanks especially for your comments re the working qualities of various hi-strength stainless alloys. Yes, I know from my own experience that 'stainless' is not an absolute, try putting something on a ship & running it through a couple hundred salt-water immersion cycles & watch what happens, even if you do rinse things off in between. Sounds like I'll be using 4130 & painting with some sort of epoxy or trying powder coating. On a related topic, it's good to hear the comments about Replicraft's parts, I was think ing of buying some parts from the, so now I know to be careful about the ones made for the 1929 plans. Cheers! Kip Gardner Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences Old Dominion University Norfolk, VA 23529 Ph: 757-683-5654 Bumper Sticker of the Week: "Illiterate? Write for Free Help Now!" (An 'oldie' from the 60's sent by a friend) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug413(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 05, 2001
Subject: Re: Stainless Steel?
In a message dated 6/5/01 8:45:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, KGardner(at)odu.edu writes: > . On > a related topic, it's good to hear the comments about Replicraft's parts, I > was think ing of buying some parts from the, so now I know to be careful > about the ones made for the 1929 plans. > > Kip, I had a Replicraft catalog a few years ago when building my first improved aircamper and at the time the parts listed were for the earlier version airplane, as mentioned, but the parts weren't even built to the earlier plans. They were all changed in some manner, so I threw the catalog away and made my own parts to the improved aircamper plans, and they all fit and work. Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Corvair College
From: KGardner(at)odu.edu
Date: Jun 05, 2001
06/05/2001 05:02:44 PM Mark, Glad to hear you had a good time at College. I have said it before, but I really think that the best way to work with William is in person. The afternoon I spent at his shop last winter was key to my decision to use a Corvair converted by his method. The way he related to my wife was also key to her finally feeling comfortable about me going ahead with this project. If at all possible, I'll be there next year with an engine, ready to get the most out of his assistance. Cheers! Kip Gardner Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences Old Dominion University Norfolk, VA 23529 Ph: 757-683-5654 Bumper Sticker of the Week: "Illiterate? Write for Free Help Now!" (An 'oldie' from the 60's sent by a friend) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 2001
From: david kowell <dkowell(at)cstone.net>
Subject: (no subject)
two things are any gn-1 builders that i can talk to and is there anyone going to the va state fly in this weekend david kowell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dmott9(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 05, 2001
Subject: Re: Corvair College
In a message dated 6/5/01 5:11:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KGardner(at)odu.edu writes: << Glad to hear you had a good time at College. I have said it before, but I really think that the best way to work with William is in person. The afternoon I spent at his shop last winter was key to my decision to use a Corvair converted by his method. The way he related to my wife was also key to her finally feeling comfortable about me going ahead with this project. If at all possible, I'll be there next year with an engine, ready to get the most out of his assistance. >> Glad to hear that. I too hope to be at next years with engine. I'm still in the planning stages myself. Have been offered an engine for $125, and I know I should go ahead and get it, but I've got the same problem the guy who has it does. No room. -dennis Gate City, VA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 2001
Subject: Re: Brodhead visit
From: "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com>
There is a Super 8 in Monroe 10 miles to the west . It's only two years old & nice and clean .You can reserve a room by calling 1-800-800-8000. Dale Johnson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Williams" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: Rod ends
Date: Jun 07, 2001
Does anyone have some (4) threaded fork-ends laying around with 5/16" holes that could be used for strut end fittings, hmmmmm? If not, do you have a good (cheap) source? Doug B., any bright ideas? Any tips on alternate end fittings besides what's on the plans? I would like to do it that way but to make adjustments, a new end fitting has to be made and that seems like a pain. Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Wooden It Be Lovely? -- Building the Wings
Date: Jun 07, 2001
Piet Listers, Matt Paxton has another installment about building his Piet on Avweb. I just read it, it's about building the wings, and it is very entertaining! What a great way to document your building process, and a great way to let folks outside our little brotherhood know what it's like to build a plans-built homebuilt out of wood!! Good job, and keep up the good work Matt! Gary Meadows Spring, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dmott9(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 07, 2001
Subject: Re: Wooden It Be Lovely? -- Building the Wings
In a message dated 6/7/01 2:39:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com writes: << Matt Paxton has another installment about building his Piet on Avweb. I just read it, it's about building the wings, and it is very entertaining! What a great way to document your building process, and a great way to let folks outside our little brotherhood know what it's like to build a plans-built homebuilt out of wood!! >> Would it be possible to post the URL to that Website ? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wooden It Be Lovely? -- Building the Wings
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Duh - Sorry about that, I meant to do that, and got distracted! The link to Matts article is: http://www.avweb.com/articles/piet2/ Hope that helps, Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug413(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 07, 2001
Subject: Re: Rod ends
In a message dated 6/7/01 9:10:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lnawms(at)msn.com writes: > Any tips on alternate end fittings besides what's on the plans? I would l> ike to do it that way but to make adjustments, a new end fitting has to b> e made and that seems like a pain. > > Larry, Set up the aircraft, cabane struts, and wing until you are satisfied it is correct. Next, make wooden tooling struts from 1X3's, double check. Finally, use the tooling struts to drill the correct spacing on the real struts and you won't need to make adjustments. I've done three this way. It's easy. Doug Bryant ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: EAA Va. State Fly-in
From: KGardner(at)odu.edu
Date: Jun 08, 2001
06/08/2001 10:11:21 AM Hi List, Anyone going to the EAA State fly-in at Petersburg this weekend - I'll be there on Sunday if anyone wants to catch up & talk Piets or whatever. I'll check in at the EAA volunteer tent. Anyone who wants to coordinate beforehand, send me mail offline at this address or at . I need to check the Fly-in web site later today ofor the schedule, etc. Cheers! Kip Gardner (slowly house-painting my way out of Va.) Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences Old Dominion University Norfolk, VA 23529 Ph: 757-683-5654 Bumper Sticker of the Week: "Illiterate? Write for Free Help Now!" (An 'oldie' from the 60's sent by a friend) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: VFR flight planning web sites ?
For you guys who do more cross countries than the most of us.....have you found any good airport-to-airport flight planning sites out there ? Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2001
From: Richard deCosta <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com>
Subject: Re: VFR flight planning web sites ?
I use www.aerochart.com > > >For you guys who do more cross countries than the most >of us.....have you found any good airport-to-airport flight planning >sites out there ? > >Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: VFR flight planning web sites ?
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Mike, AOPA has a real nice flight planner on their website, Course you gotta be a member to use it.... Plus they have airport information, weather, the whole nine yards. WWW.AOPA.org Good Luck, Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dmott9(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Subject: Re: Wooden It Be Lovely? -- Building the Wings
In a message dated 06/07/2001 8:13:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com writes: << The link to Matts article is: http://www.avweb.com/articles/piet2/ Hope that helps, Gary >> It sure did. I'm still in the plnning stges.. but I'll get there. Oh for the sweet smell of spruce being sawn ... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Woodflier(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Subject: Thanks Gary
Thanks Gary. Hope to see some of you all in person at Brodhead. The Peit won't be ready but at least I'll be in a wood airplane - a Bellanca. Matt Paxton ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Last chance for the book sale
From: Christian Bobka, 74373,442 DATE: 6/8/01 RE: Book Sale June 20th deadline Last Chance Guys and Gals, here is the last chance for participation in the book sale on EAA published books. The Bingelis books, four of them, go for 50% off of the list price for the set of 80 dollars (so forty bucks good price eh?). Throw in another 6 dollars for shipping. If you don't want the set then they are 12.50 a piece plus shipping. I also advise you to get the wood construction techniques book and video (Bill Rewey building his Piet) for an additional 12 dollars plus shipping (maybe another 2 dollars) and the welding book and video for an additional 12 dollars plus shipping (maybe another two dollars). Finally, the Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook is advised for the FAA paperwork info for another 7.50 plus a dollar for so for shipping. Flying and Glider Manual reprints are 3.50 a piece or 15 dollars for the set of five, plus shipping. The sale is "50% off any item in the EAA Book/Video Catalog" so if you can dig it up on the web and want other stuff, let me know. I would need the catalog item number and name if it is oddball stuff so I do not order the wrong thing. Before you send me anything, advise me what you want by email at bobka(at)compuserve.com. Then I will come up with an estimated shipping cost and advise you by email what amount should be sent. I impose a deadline of June 20th for check in my hand. Any extra postage sent will be refunded. The more you order, the cheaper the average price per item will be. I will take delivery of the big shipment form EAA HQ and then mail out everyone's orders. I will be using USPS Media rate with delivery confirmation (to protect me from someone claiming they never received the stuff) only. I hope to have everything distributed by the end of July but it is up to the EAA HQ to get the stuff to me promptly. I will mail it out within a day or two of receiving it from HQ. All sales will be through the EAA Chapter that I am treasurer of so make the check payable to "EAA Chapter 25" and mail to me at: Christian Bobka 13532 Findlay Avenue Apple Valley, MN 55124-8064 612 207 3762 is my phone. Check out the EAA25.com website to verify that I am indeed the treasurer. I am doing this because I am a good guy and want to see the sun obscured by waves of Pietenpols flying over head. I am not making any money off this. All sales will be final. Take your time and do it right!! "Once in a lifetime opportunities only come once or twice in a lifetime" - Archie Bunker Be aware that this sale is exclusive to the EAA chapters only. Only one order per chapter on the special order form mailed to the chapter presidents. If you send direct to EAA HQ, they will not honor these prices but they will charge your credit card for the full price. Don't work outside the system. Finally, use a Technical Counselor!! More on this later. chris ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Partial List of Books/Videos available
DATE: 6/8/01 RE: Pietenpol-List: EAA Book List Prospective EAA bookshop purchasers: We have spoken before about the April-May bargain on books (50% off!) from the EAA book shop when they are purchased thru your EAA Chapter. Chris Bobka has offered to act as a Chapter purchaser for any of you who are not able to work thru your local EAA Chapter. If you run into problems with EAA, let me know and I will walk over to EAA and try to expedite the shipments with Cathy Chomo, who is the person in charge of that whole operation. Until you get your official listing from EAA, here is what I know is available, along with the regular price: 1929 Flying and Glider Manual (F-14167) $6.95 Contains information on flight lessons plus building the Heath Super Parasol, Russell-Henderson Light Monoplane and an easy-to-build glider. (72 pages) 1930 Flying and Glider Manual (F-14168) $6.95 Contains plans for building a Heath Baby Bullet, set of light plane metal floats, the Northrup Glider, Lincoln Biplane and Alco Sport plane. Other tips on building and welding. (72 pages) 1931 Flying and Glider Manual (F-14169) $6.95 Building the "Longster," Georgias Special, a glider and secondary glider, Driggs Dart, the Church Midwing, the Heath Seaplane Parasol and its pontoons, the Northrup Glider and other gliders. (72 pages) 1932 Flying and Glider Manual (F-14170) $6.95 Building the Pietenpol Aircamper with Ford motor conversion, Powell "P-H" Racer, the Heath Super Soar Glider, Penguin practice plane, Ramsey "Flying Bathtub" and other kits. Also, build your own hangar. (72 pages) 1933 Flying and Glider Manual (F-14171) $6.95 Building the Gere Sport Biplane, Pietenpol floats, Pietenpol Sky Scout, and Henderson Longster. Also Long Harlequin motor planes, a hydroglider and information on building propellers. (76 pages) Flying and Glider Manual Combo (F-14172) $29.95 All five Flying and Glider Manuals. Save $4.80. Sportplane Builder (F-30140) $24.95 By Tony Bingelis (Vol.1) Aircraft construction methods and techniques for the homebuilder. Articles taken from Tony's columns in Sport Aviation magazine. (319 pages) Sportplane Construction Techniques (F-01395) $24.95 By Tony Bingelis (Vol.2) More aircraft construction tips for the homebuilder. Chapters dedicated to fiberglass construction, control systems, interiors, landing gear, instrumentation, electrical, and painting. Articles taken from Tony's columns in Sport Aviation magazine. (366 pages) Firewall Forward (F-13950) $24.95 By Tony Bingelis (Vol.3) Manual on piston engine installations. Information includes engine selection, mounts, firewalls,mufflers, fuel systems, and much more. One of the best engine reference manuals for the amateur builder. (302 pages) Tony Bingelis on Engines (F-15691) $24.95 By Tony Bingelis (Vol.4) A treasury of practical engine information for aircraft builders, owners, restorers, and mechanics. Things you need to know about engine selection, engine installation, firewall preparation, baffles, cooling, fuel systems, ignition and electrical, exhaust systems, props and spinners. Articles taken from Tony's columns in Sport Aviation magazine. (224 pages) Tony Bingelis Four Volume Set (F-15692) $79.95 Save $19.85 by ordering all four books. Aircraft Welding (F-37864) $11.95 Fundamental welding techniques for the building and repair of aircraft, from the pages of Sport Aviation and other sources. This book is filled with aircraft welding tips and information. (116 pages) Wood Aircraft Building Techniques (F-18100) $11.95 Excellent resource book on "how to" build or repair wooden aircraft. (136 pages) Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook (F-13510) $14.95 A guide to construction standards for amateur aircraft building and detailed information on FAA contacts and applicable FARs. (141 pages) Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook / EAA Welding Manual / EAA Wood Building Techniques Combo (F-18104) $29.95 Save $8.90 buying all three at once. Alternative Engines (F-17878) $44.95 By Mick Myal. (Vol.1) A comprehensive look at automobile based engines as a logical source for affordable alternative aircraft power (304 pages) Alternative Engines (Unlisted code number) $44.95 By Mick Myal. (Vol.2) A continuation of articles form Contact! magazine. (312 pages) There are a number of videos available. This is a portion of the listings: Building Your Own Airplane: How to get started (F-10429) $19.99 The first of a series of videos that will give you insight into the exciting world of home-building. Topics include the right kit for you, the definition of experimental, Federal Aviation Regulations, insurance, how to set a realistic budget, FAA inspections, and many other topics. (45 min.) Basic Aircraft Covering with Ray Stits (F-36141) $29.99 Learn the delicate art of fabric covering from the best - Ray Stits - the man who developed the Stits Poly-Fiber Aircraft Coating Process. Step-by-step instructions are detailed in this excellent video. (120 min.) Basic Aircraft Woodworking (F-35776) $19.99 Woodworking knowledge is essential to any home-building project. Power tool safety is also discussed. A great starter tape. (30 min.) EAA Wood Building Techniques/Basic Woodworking Video Combo (F-11619) $23.99 Save $7.95 by buying this 2 piece combo. Building Your Own Airplane: Welding (F-36687) $19.99 Take the mystery out of welding. Your video instructors will take you step-by-step through the process of oxyacetylene welding. Learn how to "read" a puddle, run a bead, tack weld, weld a 90 degree intersection, cluster weld, and more. Whether you've never held a torch before or haven't welded for years, this video will provide the background to get you started. (50 min.) EAA Welding Manual/Building Your Own Airplane: Welding Video Combo (F-36688) $23.99 Save $7.95 buying the combo. Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook/EAA Welding Manual/EAA Wood Building Techniques Combo (F-18104) $29.95 Save $8.90 by buying all three books at once. - - - - - - - - - - - - - I do not have the EAA code number or price of FAA's Advisory Circular 43.13-1B/2A "Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Inspection, Repair & Alterations" but I know you can buy it thru the EAA bookstore. This is the manual which sets the standards to which you should be building. It's a heavy, thick, expensive "how to" book, but one that every A&P and IA must have. You will have to pay shipping charges from Oshkosh, which can get expensive. But you can get the approximate costs when you order the books and tapes. Doc Mosher Oshkosh USA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 2001
From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: VFR flight planning web sites ?
Mike, I like http://www.airnav.com but they are currenly down. They claim that they will be back up on June 11. Are you going to be at the Taylorcraft flyin in Alliance? Dave N36078 '41 Taylorcraft BC-12-65 > >For you guys who do more cross countries than the most >of us.....have you found any good airport-to-airport flight planning >sites out there ? > >Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2001
From: Kirk & Laura Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com>
Subject: Re: VFR flight planning web sites ?
I like http://www.aeroplanner.com since you can download the route as a .pdf file or GPS data chunk. I think they might be starting to charge for some downloads, but I could be wrong. Kirk ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TomTravis(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 08, 2001
Subject: Re: VFR flight planning web sites ?
Mike, Try Landings.com. Pretty good for course and distances and airport info. Airnav,com also has some good stuff including fuel prices along the way. Tom ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "fishin" <fishin(at)wwa.com>
Subject: Re: VFR flight planning web sites ?
Date: Jun 08, 2001
airnav.com is due back on line next week. it's a good'n JoeC N99621 -----Original Message----- From: Richard deCosta <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Date: Friday, June 08, 2001 9:43 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: VFR flight planning web sites ? > >I use www.aerochart.com > >> >> >>For you guys who do more cross countries than the most >>of us.....have you found any good airport-to-airport flight planning >>sites out there ? >> >>Mike C. >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry D. Morgan, Sr., MCP" <mrfixit(at)accessunited.com>
Subject: Wisconsin Visit
Date: Jun 09, 2001
Hey Pieters, I am heading to Wisconsin this coming week. I will be leaving out tomorrow, Sunday, and will arrive in Wisconsin tomorrow evening. I was wondering if one or more of you guys in the Milwaukee area have a piet and would allow me a good look over. Please respond to my address below because I won't be getting mail at home, but through work. Thanks Gentlemen... Terry Morgan Getting my stuff together... In Thomaston, Georgia ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry D. Morgan, Sr., MCP" <mrfixit(at)accessunited.com>
Subject: Wisconsin Visit
Date: Jun 09, 2001
Please excuse... the address is tdmorgan(at)qg.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Terry D. Morgan, Sr., MCP Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wisconsin Visit Hey Pieters, I am heading to Wisconsin this coming week. I will be leaving out tomorrow, Sunday, and will arrive in Wisconsin tomorrow evening. I was wondering if one or more of you guys in the Milwaukee area have a piet and would allow me a good look over. Please respond to my address below because I won't be getting mail at home, but through work. Thanks Gentlemen... Terry Morgan Getting my stuff together... In Thomaston, Georgia ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cinda + Skip Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 06/08/01
Date: Jun 10, 2001
----- Original Message ----- From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 06/08/01 * Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/08/01: 12 Time: 08:.....have you found any good airport-to-airport flight planning sites out there ? Mike C. Mike, I like DUATS.com It is free to anyone with a current medical. You can get great weather maps and way more wx info than you need. Also it has a flight planner which will print out a plan like the airlines use. I always take one with me and the other day it came in handy when my handheld GPS stopped working. You tell the thing when you are going and your altitude and it does all the wind calculations for each leg, you also put in a profile for your Piet and it figures how much fuel you will have at each way point. Anyway its well worth the 10 or 15 minutes it takes to get logged in and learn your way around, also you can get it from any online computer. Skip still almost back to work on my landing gear in Atlanta ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Subject: Re: List of GN-1 owner/builder/flyers
Date: Jun 10, 2001
I'd like to compile a list of GN-1 owners, builders, or flyers and their addresses, phone numbers, e-mail addresses, etc. I have an old list but I think some addresses are no longer correct. Anyone who would like to get on the list please-mail me ----OFF LIST. I will compile this info and will e-mail you also OFF LIST. Thanks Later, Bert bconoly(at)surfsouth.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: the importance of cotter pins, self locking nuts, and
safety wire Group- although not directly related about Pietenpols, it still shows how important these little details are. It's not comforting to pass this along after the Hubble......etc... but here it is. Mike C. >>>>Subject: Hyper-X >>>> >>>> Gentlemen, >>>> >>>> Guess what. NASA Dryden removed the horizontal control fins from the >>>> Pegasus booster while they were doing the vehicle build-up. When they >>>> re-installed the control surfaces, someone apparently forgot to >>>> re-install the locking mechanisms (cotter pin or some other type of >>>> pin or clamp assembly.) In the pre-flight testing, they completely >>>> missed this mistake in the installation. When the vehicle was >>>> launched, the vehicle flew fine during the initial horizontal flight >>>> while the control fins were in a fixed position. As soon as the fins >>>> were actuated for the pull-up maneuver, the fins fell off. One side >>>> fell off initially and the other fell off about a half second >>>> later. So it appears that the $183M mission failed for want of two 50 >>>> cent pins. >>>> > >>>> The fix to the problem is straight-forward so the remaining flights >>>> should go off as planned without redesign. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: thanks for all the great responses
to my VFR route planning question. (shows I don't get out much !) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Where's Corky
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Haven't heard anything out of Corky lately. where's he at. Last I heard from him he was going to a picnic with 29 women! I hope he's ok, Or maybe he took his trip across the water. Corky where are you?? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Where's Corky
I heard from corky today. He was cleaning out space in Mr. Harvey's hangar at Lucien Field so he could do a trial assembly. Chris Minneapolis . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 11, 2001
Subject: Re: Where's Corky
I'm here. Have to do some chores for my bride occasionally to earn my keep.Yes I am before putting it together and to prepare for my naked inspection. HOWEVER, last Sat morning while snooping in Mr. Harvey's goodies down at Lucein airport I looked down and noticed I had company. A five ft. plus moccasin and I don't mean a shoe. As some of you might know we have had a lot of rain and it brings out these friends. I ran for a flat blade shovel but by the time I got back in the shop he had made his way between two large wall cabinets. I got about five inches of his tail but it didn't completely sever it. Who cares. I was there this morning and Mr Harvey said he had not seen him again and was not looking for him. He was a big one even by La standards. Soooooo ole Corky is still around building his Piet in La ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: AC 43
EAA Chapter 25 has a dealer account with Jeppesen. It seems that I should be able to get a bunch of the AC 43 books at a price around 12.00 ea plus shipping. Many of you have expressed an interest in this book so I am going to call this week and order about twenty of them to sell to the piet listers at cost. If you are interested, send me an email at bobka@compuserve. Send an email whether you have stated an intent to buy one through me already or not. I want to make sure I get enough. We will handle the money later. Chris Minneapolis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeffrey Wilcox" <CraigWilcox(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Where's Corky
Date: Jun 12, 2001
The mind boggles at the thought of Corky undergoing a naked inspection! Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Where's Corky > > I'm here. Have to do some chores for my bride occasionally to earn my > keep.Yes I am before putting it together and to prepare for my naked > inspection. HOWEVER, last Sat morning while snooping in Mr. Harvey's goodies > down at Lucein airport I looked down and noticed I had company. A five ft. > plus moccasin and I don't mean a shoe. As some of you might know we have had > a lot of rain and it brings out these friends. I ran for a flat blade shovel > but by the time I got back in the shop he had made his way between two large > wall cabinets. I got about five inches of his tail but it didn't completely > sever it. Who cares. I was there this morning and Mr Harvey said he had not > seen him again and was not looking for him. He was a big one even by La > standards. Soooooo ole Corky is still around building his Piet in La > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com>
Subject: Essex Primer
Date: Jun 12, 2001
List, I just priced a primer pump at ACS and Wicks and found the price has gone up 2 1/2 times since my 1999 and 2000 cataglogs came out. Does anyone have a serviceable primer pump they'd like to sell at a reasonable price? I hate pouring raw gas into the cylinders. DickG. Ft. Myers, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 2001
Subject: Re: Essex Primer
Dick, I've got two Kohlers with different fitting ends. Tell me which you prefer. COST?? Same as the toe brakes you sold me. Got lots of extra stuff I will have no need for so make your need list and send it to me. Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pinked vs. straight tapes
Date: Jun 12, 2001
On my first project I used only straight tapes, not sure why. I think when I got the video from FFP with my 404 kit, that is their main product. Had the normal problems where you had to learn technique to lay the tapes.


May 10, 2001 - June 12, 2001

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bz