Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ca
June 12, 2001 - July 25, 2001
But the edges always had that little scallop effect. Not continiously but
alot of them through the taping. That was nothing that you couldn't fix
with a warm iron. But time consuming.
Now with my Pietenpol, decided to try pinked tapes, man, what a difference!
The tapes seem to go on relaxed, without the edges fighting the tapes.
Stayed away from the pinked tapes originally because I heard that pinked
tapes weren't from that time period, but after research found out they came
out in the 20's.
What is everyone elses experience with this????
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pinked vs. straight tapes |
walter evans wrote:
>
>
> On my first project I used only straight tapes, not sure why. I think when
> I got the video from FFP with my 404 kit, that is their main product.
> Had the normal problems where you had to learn technique to lay the tapes.
> But the edges always had that little scallop effect. Not continiously but
> alot of them through the taping. That was nothing that you couldn't fix
> with a warm iron. But time consuming.
> Now with my Pietenpol, decided to try pinked tapes, man, what a difference!
> The tapes seem to go on relaxed, without the edges fighting the tapes.
> Stayed away from the pinked tapes originally because I heard that pinked
> tapes weren't from that time period, but after research found out they came
> out in the 20's.
> What is everyone elses experience with this????
> walt
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
recovered my old J-3 Cub many years ago (in Grade A cotton) I used
pinked tapes throughout and they worked very well, and looked fine when
finished.
Jack Phillips
(wish I was ready to cover - still sweating through the landing gear)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Pinked vs. straight tapes |
I used pinked tapes on der Pietenpol with good results. The
old-hands at the airport (not BS'ers......but workers:)) explained
to me that the pinked edges give much more "surface area" or
should I say contact area and are less prone to delaminate or curl/
come unstuck round the edges.
Dick G......your primer is for a Ford ? Cont. ?? I have no primer on
my Cont. and it starts fine. Now on a cold day she's cantankerous but
not many cold days you'll want to be flying that thing. Course I think you
are in FL so not a factor.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Seibert" <r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com> |
My 2 cents on primers is that they are not worth the trouble they cause.
My old flight instructor showed me once how to start an A-65 when it was
cold. I use the same technique on my 0-320 and, in fact, tore the primer
system off of my RV-6.
With the mags OFF, fuel on, mixture full rich and throttle CLOSED, pull
the prop through until you feel compression resistance. (Note that if
you try this with the throttle open at all, it will not work.) As you
pull against compression, you should also hear a sucking sound from the
carb as another cylinder starts drawing in air/fuel. Keep pulling until
the sucking or hissing sound dies off. Then rotate the prop the other
direction. You will hear the same sucking or hissing sound as the air
goes past the throttle plate in the other direction. Repeat this 2 or 3
times depending upon how much fuel you engine likes. (You are basically
rocking the prop back and forth on a compression stroke) Then pull the
prop through about 4 blades to get this mixture pulled up into the
engine.
What this does is - every time the charge of air sucks past the throttle
plate, it draws fuel from the idle ports and atomizes it. This charge of
air gets super rich after passing the carb idle ports several times.
Pulling the prop through 4 blades after rocking it like that loads the
intake with this supersaturated mixture.
Crack the throttle turn on the mags and they usually start on the first
blade or two. -- even when dead cold (well as cold as it gets in Texas).
IF that doesn't work for you, contact me and I also have two primer
pumps sitting on the shelf needing a home.
Regards,
Bob Seibert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Michelle Brant" <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: new builder's thanks to all |
I'd like to make it tonight but I'm not feeling too well. Maybe there's
another time I could pay a visit. I may be interested in getting into the
chapter there as well.
Thanks.
Tom Brant
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: new builder's thanks to all
>
> Hi Tom
> We are having a meeting of a newly formed EAA chapter at Crystal Airport
on
> Wed, June 13. We will be going to my hangar on the East Side of the
airport
> at about 7:30, I'll be showing the group my Piet in progress. Stop by if
> you can. We meet initially at 7:00 on the side of the field off of Co
Rd.
> 81 turn in at the old Embers Restaurant, follow access road to the first
> gate on the left, go to Alpha - 3, the Uni Systems hangar. Or, at 7:30 we
> are going to my hangar Delta 7 - C, enter off of Bass Lake Rd., next to
the
> VFW
> Hope to See you
> Dick Navratil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom & Michelle Brant <tmbrant(at)uswest.net>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 11:54 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: new builder's thanks to all
>
>
>
> >
> > Geez, I didn't expect such a positive response... The groups I've
> > subscribed to before generally don't like it if you ask a question
> > that's been asked before. Thanks to all of you for your support and
> > answering my repetetive questions. For those who asked, I live in the
> > Follwell neighborhood in MPLS. That's just off why 94 near Brooklyn
> > Park. I will be calling those who offered their numbers, so don't be
> > surprised to be harrassed. I am planning to build from the manual but
> > if needed will buy the plans as mentioned. I will definately buy the
> > longer fuse plans as mentioned. Here's another repetetive question for
> > you all... How much weight can a corvair powered Piet carry. I weigh
> > about 210 and typical passengers I would carry are in the neighborhood
> > of 200-250 lbs. Is this possible? The archives have many differing
> > opinions on this. One guy mentioned that he was 260 lbs and he
> > typically carried a 200 pounder up front with gas for an hours flight
> > with reserve.
> >
> > Anyway, thanks to all who responded! It's great to feel welcome in the
> > group!
> >
> > Tom Brant, MLPS
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edwin Johnson <elj(at)shreve.net> |
| Subject: | Pinked vs. straight tapes |
This reasoning for using pinked edges is 'right out of the book' of Ray
Stitts' manual for covering. If you are using the PolyFiber, ala Stitts,
covering, you should certainly read that manual for it gives just about
all the info needed to cover including how to rib stitch. As far as that
goes, it would be useful when using any type of covering method as it
gives the how _and_ the why for techniques. I used this method for
covering my Maule and it is probably one of the easiest with which to
work, as well as producing a fire resistant covering. (I'm a little
skeptical of that claim.)
There is also a video, if you are inclined that way, of the PolyFiber
method although the manual gives you all the info needed.
Incidentally, Ray thought it was a huge waste of time and accomplished
nothing to spend a lot of time building up and sanding the silver coating
(Poly Spray) to hide the pinked edges, as some do on 'show' planes. :)
>
> I used pinked tapes on der Pietenpol with good results. The
> old-hands at the airport (not BS'ers......but workers:)) explained
> to me that the pinked edges give much more "surface area" or
> should I say contact area and are less prone to delaminate or curl/
> come unstuck round the edges.
...Edwin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Edwin Johnson ....... elj(at)shreve.net ~
~ http://www.shreve.net/~elj ~
~ ~
~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the ~
~ earth with your eyes turned skyward, ~
~ for there you have been, there you long ~
~ to return." -- da Vinci ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "james cooper" <blugoos1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Cockpit modification |
A possible design change to give a little more room in the cockpit and
improve in and out access: Working on a GN-1 Aircamper with a Cont. C-85
and a 2' wide interior width steel tubing fuselage, the thought occurred
to me to join the tandem dual cockpit space as in a J-3 Cub, by removing
the turtle-back structure containing instruments, instrument panel, and
aft windshield between the fore and aft cockpits, but retaining the
flat, table like structure upon which this turtle-back feature rests.
The instruments would then be mounted in the forward turtle-back panel
for visual use by both passenger (front seat) and pilot (rear seat) as
in a J-3 Cub, thus requiring only one set of instruments located in
front of the front cockpit. The pilot flying from the rear seat would
still be able to read the instruments as in a Cub. In addition there
would be only one plexiglass windshield to protect both pilot and
passenger from the slipstream. This windshield would wrap around the
forward cabane struts, angling upwards and contacting the leading edge
of the wing center section. This would provide the only protection from
the wind for the person (normally the pilot) in the rear seat. Would
this be sufficient protection? Also, what effect would this oversized
windshield have on lift and drag. Would the increased drag be dangerous
in flight? The hoped for advantage of such a set up would be a little
more "living room" space, slightly easier access in and out of the
cockpits, and moderate weight savings, as only one set of instruments
would be required.
I hope I'm not being presumptuous, especially since I only have a
private license with an expired medical, total time about 150 hours
mostlu in J-3 Cubs, all over 50 years ago - rather poor credendials for
making such a suggestion. But like Corky, I live in beautiful Louisiana,
land of the only honest politicians in the world. Cheers, Jim Cooper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cockpit modification |
----- Original Message -----
From: james cooper
To: Pietenpol matronics
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 1:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cockpit modification
A possible design change to give a little more room in the cockpit and
improve in and out access: Working on a GN-1 Aircamper with a Cont.
C-85
and a 2' wide interior width steel tubing fuselage, the thought
occurred
to me to join the tandem dual cockpit space as in a J-3 Cub, by
removing
the turtle-back structure containing instruments, instrument panel,
and
aft windshield between the fore and aft cockpits, but retaining the
flat, table like structure upon which this turtle-back feature rests.
The instruments would then be mounted in the forward turtle-back panel
for visual use by both passenger (front seat) and pilot (rear seat) as
in a J-3 Cub, thus requiring only one set of instruments located in
front of the front cockpit. The pilot flying from the rear seat would
still be able to read the instruments as in a Cub. In addition there
would be only one plexiglass windshield to protect both pilot and
passenger from the slipstream. This windshield would wrap around the
forward cabane struts, angling upwards and contacting the leading edge
of the wing center section. This would provide the only protection
from
the wind for the person (normally the pilot) in the rear seat. Would
this be sufficient protection? Also, what effect would this oversized
windshield have on lift and drag. Would the increased drag be
dangerous
in flight? The hoped for advantage of such a set up would be a little
more "living room" space, slightly easier access in and out of the
cockpits, and moderate weight savings, as only one set of instruments
would be required.
I hope I'm not being presumptuous, especially since I only have a
private license with an expired medical, total time about 150 hours
mostlu in J-3 Cubs, all over 50 years ago - rather poor credendials
for
making such a suggestion. But like Corky, I live in beautiful
Louisiana,
land of the only honest politicians in the world. Cheers, Jim Cooper
------------------------
My opinion only with no disrespect - why build a Piet ( GN-1 ) in the
first place?
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan James" <MADjames(at)theknapp.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Where's Corky |
I would like to hear from anyone who has experience with Subaru powered
Piets as we are about to see the first example take to the air here in the
United Kingdom. Built by Mark Elliot with EA81 1800cc engine and 2.36:1 Amax
reduction drive. It will also be the first steel tube Piet to fly this side
of the pond. Thanks. By the way have a look at our UK web site at:
www.aircamper.co.uk
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Owner Directory |
This is not a commercial sales message! It is within the pietenpol-list
guidelines of swapping information among the Piet group.
The 2001 Pietenpol Owner Directory is finally printed!
This Directory is published by me each year as a labor of love. However,
there are certain costs associated with it (printing, postage), so I would
like to get $5 a copy to cover some of my cash outlay. The research and
the actual writing (hours of hammer and tong work) is simply my
contribution to the Piet clan. A number of complimentary "proof"
Directorys have been reviewed by Piet owners to find discrepancies.
The 52-page Directory lists over 400 Piets in the US. These are listed by
N-number, and include the name and address of the present owner, the type
of engine installed, the name of the builder and the year it was built, and
the year of the last FAA registration, which usually indicates the date
that the present owner bought the airplane. If the airplane happens to be
a GN-1, that is indicated. If the Piet happens to be a single-place Scout,
that is indicated. Some listings contain some "Unknowns" which I would
like to get filled in. US Piets are also listed by state location (27 in
Florida, none in Vermont), and an alphabetical list of owners (at least 10
owners have two Piets). This year, an alphabetical list of builders is
included, regardless of who now owns the airplanes.
The Directory lists 42 Canadian Piets with owner names and addresses. It
lists 34 Piets with owner names in the UK, and 8 in South Africa.
To get your own Pietenpol Owner Directory, mail me $5 and include your
return mail address. Make checks payable to doc Mosher. Some of you have
asked on e-mail how to get a copy, and I may not have kept your name on
file. Simply use the postal service and you will get a Directory in a few
days.
Doc Mosher
1071 Meadow Lane
Neenah WI 54956
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
Did anyone else happen to notice the goof in the July
issue of Kitplanes? On page 22, in their Sun 'n Fun
coverage, there is a photograph of a wood wing,
which they identify as belonging to a Piet. Not a
chance, unless someone has reworked the ribs to
resemble an ultralight. I'm guessing it's for the Loehle
elsewhere on the page. Anyone know for sure?
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Pinked vs straight tapes |
As was previously mentioned, the pinked tapes are better because they have a
longer edge overall (because of the pinking) which allows more of a gluing
surface. There is also far less of a chance of fraying. And anyway, the
pinked tapes look better.
Jeff in stormy Texas with both fuselage sides
complete and still working on the Stinson V77 and the
wooden boat - not enough hours in the day
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Owner Directory |
Doc;
I don't think I'd call it a sales message at all. I'd call it a service to
the Piet community.....at a bargain price.
Chris House
Smilin' 'cause it was a cool 98 degrees in Arizona and I got to work on my
plane without using the swamp cooler.....
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Owner Directory
>
> This is not a commercial sales message! It is within the pietenpol-list
> guidelines of swapping information among the Piet group.
>
> The 2001 Pietenpol Owner Directory is finally printed!
>
> This Directory is published by me each year as a labor of love. However,
> there are certain costs associated with it (printing, postage), so I would
> like to get $5 a copy to cover some of my cash outlay. The research and
> the actual writing (hours of hammer and tong work) is simply my
> contribution to the Piet clan. A number of complimentary "proof"
> Directorys have been reviewed by Piet owners to find discrepancies.
>
> The 52-page Directory lists over 400 Piets in the US. These are listed by
> N-number, and include the name and address of the present owner, the type
> of engine installed, the name of the builder and the year it was built,
and
> the year of the last FAA registration, which usually indicates the date
> that the present owner bought the airplane. If the airplane happens to be
> a GN-1, that is indicated. If the Piet happens to be a single-place
Scout,
> that is indicated. Some listings contain some "Unknowns" which I would
> like to get filled in. US Piets are also listed by state location (27 in
> Florida, none in Vermont), and an alphabetical list of owners (at least 10
> owners have two Piets). This year, an alphabetical list of builders is
> included, regardless of who now owns the airplanes.
>
> The Directory lists 42 Canadian Piets with owner names and addresses. It
> lists 34 Piets with owner names in the UK, and 8 in South Africa.
>
> To get your own Pietenpol Owner Directory, mail me $5 and include your
> return mail address. Make checks payable to doc Mosher. Some of you have
> asked on e-mail how to get a copy, and I may not have kept your name on
> file. Simply use the postal service and you will get a Directory in a few
> days.
>
> Doc Mosher
> 1071 Meadow Lane
> Neenah WI 54956
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pinked vs straight tapes |
Jeff;
You are my Hero.........
Chris House
Smilin' 'cause Jeff got me thinkin' about sailing again
> Jeff in stormy Texas with both fuselage sides
> complete and still working on the Stinson V77 and the
> wooden boat - not enough hours in the day
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 06/14/01 |
Owen,
I saw that picture and wondered where the gussets were.
Robert Haines
Murphysboro, IL
Did anyone else happen to notice the goof in the July
issue of Kitplanes? On page 22, in their Sun 'n Fun
coverage, there is a photograph of a wood wing,
which they identify as belonging to a Piet. Not a
chance, unless someone has reworked the ribs to
resemble an ultralight. I'm guessing it's for the Loehle
elsewhere on the page. Anyone know for sure?
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda + Skip Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 06/14/01 |
----- Original Message -----
From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
Subject: Did anyone else
happen to notice the goof in the July
issue of Kitplanes? On page 22, in their Sun 'n Fun
coverage, there is a photograph of a wood wing,
which they identify as belonging to a Piet. Not a
chance, unless someone has reworked the ribs to
resemble an ultralight. I'm guessing it's for the Loehle
elsewhere on the page. Anyone know for sure?
Owen Davies
I think the wing in question is for a Fisher bi-plane, anyway the guy
worked on it all week in the wood shop run by Bert Conoly.
Skip still closer to getting back to work on Piet L/G in Atlanta
--- Cinda + Skip Gadd
--- csfog(at)earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lou Larsen" <pietlars(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Al. cabane struts |
Hi:
I tried to answer your question the other day along with the other query,
but don't know if you ever got it so heres goes another shot.
I'm using aluminum struts that take a 1" square bar internally. Used a 4"
piece of bar , rounded the end and bored a 1/4 "hole to take a thru bolt.
For the bottom ends, I cut a slot for the steel lug which are per plans ,
(and too short for an easy fit. That was for the lift struts.For the
cabanes , used the rounded ends and the bore only.
Lou
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Al. cabane struts
Stefan)
>
> Hello Lou Larsen. How did you go about fastening the bushing in the
> top and bottom of your aluminum cabane struts? Thanks Leon S.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 06/14/01 |
Skip:
I haven't seen the issue of Kitplanes so I'm not sure it's the same one.
But the wing being assembled in the wood shop at SNF was for a Fisher
Celebrity. Two hole bi-plane.
Builder was Allen Crowe - long time builder and volunteer. I have his
address/tel number if anyone wants to discuss it. I dont remember any Piet
wings under construction at SNF - sounds like Owen is right - probably a
mistake at Kitplanes..
Thanks to you and the other volunteers!
Later, Bert
(who's working on his center section )
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cinda + Skip Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 06/14/01
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
>
>
> To: Pietenpol-List Digest List
>
> Sent: 6/15/01 2:53:00 AM
>
> Subject: Did anyone else
> happen to notice the goof in the July
>
> issue of Kitplanes? On page 22, in their Sun 'n Fun
>
> coverage, there is a photograph of a wood wing,
>
> which they identify as belonging to a Piet. Not a
>
> chance, unless someone has reworked the ribs to
>
> resemble an ultralight. I'm guessing it's for the Loehle
>
> elsewhere on the page. Anyone know for sure?
>
>
> Owen Davies
>
>
> I think the wing in question is for a Fisher bi-plane, anyway the guy
> worked on it all week in the wood shop run by Bert Conoly.
>
> Skip still closer to getting back to work on Piet L/G in Atlanta
>
>
> --- Cinda + Skip Gadd
>
> --- csfog(at)earthlink.net
>
> --- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 06/14/01 |
Bert Conoly concluded:
> sounds like Owen is right - probably a mistake at Kitplanes..
Deeply unimportant, of course, but I'm an editor, so that
sort of thing catches my attention.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda + Skip Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: July Kitplanes pg 22 Woodshop at SnF |
----- Original Message -----
From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
-- ,
I saw that picture and wondered where the gussets were.
Robert Haines
Murphysboro, IL
Robert,
Fisher, Loehle and some other wooden kitplanes use a type of gusset called
an internal gusset, not a real gusset but serves the same purpose. The top and
bottom cap strips are U-channels with the open end facing each other. The
uprights are pop cycle stick like and cross each other X-shaped. The ends
of the uprights are glued into the U-channels, forming the "internal gusset".
The intersection of the X is also glued and since you have to bend the
uprights against each other to get all 4 ends into the U-channel it ends up
very strong and light.
Skip, in Atlanta still heading towards work on Piet
L/G
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Nawthern Pieters,
My bride and I checked our schedule following this wedding of the
inconsiderate granddaughter who scheduled her wedding the Sat night of
Brodhead and found that we will be in Calgary in early August visiting my
baby daughter who wants to give her da da a birthday party. While there I
would like to visit with any Piet owners or builders if tendered any sort of
invitation. I promise not to interfere with any operations and I neither
smoke or drink. (Drs orders, not my choice). I need to see some Piets in the
flesh as I am nearing my naked, pre cover, inspection. My daughter lives at
1720 14th Ave SW, Calgary. Thanks
Corky in La where it will be nice to get up nawth
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda + Skip Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/15/01 |
----- Original Message -----
From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
other volunteers!
Later, Bert
(who's working on his center section )
Bert:
I really enjoyed my time as a volunteer in the wood shop and recommend it
to anyone who will listen. I know it is popular to rag on SnF as getting more
Oshkosh like and higher $$$ each year, but that doesn't have to stop a bunch of
Piet/GN 1 guys working together in the wood shop and having a ball! Besides you
get free camping.
Have you heard anymore talk about A South Georgia area Piet/GN 1/wooden
airplane fly-in?
Skip Piet L/G work dreaming in Atlanta
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Visit up Nawth |
Corky,
I'm sure you already know this, and I think your idea is a good one,
but you don't need to have a precover inspection from the FAA. I plan
also doing a precover with my Tech Advisor, but from what I've heard
most FAA examiners don't want to check it unless it is a completed
aircraft.
Have a great trip to the north, eh!
Kirk
> I need to see some Piets in the flesh as I am nearing my naked, pre
>cover, inspection.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Visit up Nawth |
Kirk,
I've found and established contact and met personally with my FAA examiner to
be. He said he wanted to inspect it before covering and this lad is not
arguing regs with him. If he wants it up side down he will get it up side
down. I'm learning finally in my twilight years not to fight the IRS or the
FAA or any other dearly beloved bureaucrats.
I appreciate your interest. Have a test pilot lined up so I need to work
harder to finish. I wouldn't want him to change his mind. I plan to give him
those two tanks full, 31 gals,on turn him loose.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fwd: All about tools... |
Pietenpol Discussion ,
"dennis,judy mcguire" , molly truex
Note: forwarded message attached.
Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
http://buzz.yahoo.com/
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:02:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: huffman steve <ap_steve(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: All about tools...
tony ray summers ,
jason swords , dave williamson ,
brenda zimbleman , caleb beachy ,
shad bell , john cunnane ,
Mike Huffman ,
scott mckittrick ,
mike murray
--0-2110858842-992538136=:77198
Note: forwarded message attached.
--0-2110858842-992538136=:77198
From: Casraskal(at)aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:36:47 EDT
Subject: All about tools...
smhdk(at)flash.net, larjowal(at)webtv.net, cwlock(at)flash.net,
paulmarion(at)webtv.net, Ljtmn(at)aol.com, handyway(at)ionet.net
For the man in the family...
HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used
as a kind of divining rod to locate expensive parts not far from the object
we are trying to hit.
MECHANIC'S KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of cardboard
cartons delivered to your front door; works particularly well on boxes
containing seats and motorcycle jackets.
ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning steel Pop rivets in their
holes until you die of old age, but it also works great for drilling mounting
holes in fenders just above the brake line that goes to the rear wheel.
PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads.
HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board principle.
It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and the more
you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your future becomes.
VICE- GRIPS: Used to round off bolt heads. If nothing else is available, they
can also be used to transfer intense welding heat to the palm of your hand.
OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting various flammable
objects in your garage on fire. Also handy for igniting the grease inside a
brake drum you're trying to get the bearing grease out of.
WHITWORTH SOCKETS: Once used for working on older British cars and
motorcycles, they are now used mainly for impersonating that 9/16 or 1/2
socket you've been searching for, the last 15 minutes.
DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat metal
bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and flings
your beer across the room, splattering it against that freshly painted part
you were drying.
WIRE WHEEL: Cleans rust off old bolts and then throws them somewhere under
the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprint whorls and
hard-earned guitar calluses in about the time it takes you to say, "Ouch...."
HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering a motorcycle to the ground after you
have installed your new front disk brake set-up, trapping the jack handle
firmly under the front fender.
EIGHT-FOOT LONG DOUGLAS FIR 2X4: Used for levering a motorcycle upward
off a hydraulic jack.
TWEEZERS: A tool for removing wood splinters.
PHONE: Tool for calling your neighbor to see if he has another hydraulic
floor jack.
SNAP-ON GASKET SCRAPER: Theoretically useful as a sandwich tool for spreading
mayonnaise; used mainly for getting dog-doo off your boot.
E-Z OUT BOLT AND STUD EXTRACTOR: A tool that snaps off in bolt holes and is
ten times harder than any known drill bit.
TIMING LIGHT: A stroboscopic instrument for illuminating grease build up.
TWO-TON HYDRAULIC ENGINE HOIST: A handy tool for testing the tensile strength
of ground straps and brake lines you may have forgotten to disconnect.
CRAFTSMAN 1/2 x 16-INCH SCREWDRIVER: A large motor mount prying tool that
inexplicably has an accurately machined screwdriver tip on the end without
the handle.
BATTERY ELECTROLYTE TESTER: A handy tool for transferring sulfuric acid from
a car battery to the inside of your tool box after determining that your
battery is dead as a door nail, just as you thought.
METAL SNIPS: See hacksaw.
TROUBLE LIGHT: The mechanic's own tanning booth. Sometimes called a drop
light, it is a good source of vitamin D, "the sunshine vitamin," which is not
otherwise found under motorcycles at night. Health benefits aside, its main
purpose is to consume 40-watt light bulbs at about the same rate that 105-mm
howitzer shells might be used during, say, the first few hours of the Battle
of the Bulge. More often dark than light, its name is somewhat misleading.
PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the lids of old-style
paper-and-tin oil cans and splash oil on your shirt; can also be used, as the
name implies, to round off Phillips screw heads and can double as oil filter
removal wrench by stabbing through stubborn oil filters.
AIR COMPRESSOR: A machine that takes energy produced in a coal-burning power
plant 200 miles away and transforms it into compressed air that travels by
hose to a Chicago Pneumatic impact wrench that grips rusty bolts last
tightened 60 years ago by someone in Springfield, and rounds them off.
PRYBAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or bracket you
needed to remove in order to replace a 50 cent part.
HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to cut hoses 1/2 inch too short.
For the man in the family...
HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used
as a kind of divining rod to locate expensive parts not far from the object
we are trying to hit.
MECHANIC'S KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of cardboard
cartons delivered to your front door; works particularly well on boxes
containing seats and motorcycle jackets.
ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning steel Pop rivets in their
holes until you die of old age, but it also works great for drilling mounting
holes in fenders just above the brake line that goes to the rear wheel.
PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads.
HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board principle.
It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and the more
you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your future becomes.
VICE- GRIPS: Used to round off bolt heads. If nothing else is available, they
can also be used to transfer intense welding heat to the palm of your hand.
OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting various flammable
objects in your garage on fire. Also handy for igniting the grease inside a
brake drum you're trying to get the bearing grease out of.
WHITWORTH SOCKETS: Once used for working on older British cars and
motorcycles, they are now used mainly for impersonating that 9/16 or 1/2
socket you've been searching for, the last 15 minutes.
DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat metal
bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and flings
your beer across the room, splattering it against that freshly painted part
you were drying.
WIRE WHEEL: Cleans rust off old bolts and then throws them somewhere under
the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprint whorls and
hard-earned guitar calluses in about the time it takes you to say, "Ouch...."
HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering a motorcycle to the ground after you
have installed your new front disk brake set-up, trapping the jack handle
firmly under the front fender.
EIGHT-FOOT LONG DOUGLAS FIR 2X4: Used for levering a motorcycle upward
off a hydraulic jack.
TWEEZERS: A tool for removing wood splinters.
PHONE: Tool for calling your neighbor to see if he has another hydraulic
floor jack.
SNAP-ON GASKET SCRAPER: Theoretically useful as a sandwich tool for spreading
mayonnaise; used mainly for getting dog-doo off your boot.
E-Z OUT BOLT AND STUD EXTRACTOR: A tool that snaps off in bolt holes and is
ten times harder than any known drill bit.
TIMING LIGHT: A stroboscopic instrument for illuminating grease build up.
TWO-TON HYDRAULIC ENGINE HOIST: A handy tool for testing the tensile strength
of ground straps and brake lines you may have forgotten to disconnect.
CRAFTSMAN 1/2 x 16-INCH SCREWDRIVER: A large motor mount prying tool that
inexplicably has an accurately machined screwdriver tip on the end without
the handle.
BATTERY ELECTROLYTE TESTER: A handy tool for transferring sulfuric acid from
a car battery to the inside of your tool box after determining that your
battery is dead as a door nail, just as you thought.
METAL SNIPS: See hacksaw.
TROUBLE LIGHT: The mechanic's own tanning booth. Sometimes called a drop
light, it is a good source of vitamin D, "the sunshine vitamin," which is not
otherwise found under motorcycles at night. Health benefits aside, its main
purpose is to consume 40-watt light bulbs at about the same rate that 105-mm
howitzer shells might be used during, say, the first few hours of the Battle
of the Bulge. More often dark than light, its name is somewhat misleading.
PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the lids of old-style
paper-and-tin oil cans and splash oil on your shirt; can also be used, as the
name implies, to round off Phillips screw heads and can double as oil filter
removal wrench by stabbing through stubborn oil filters.
AIR COMPRESSOR: A machine that takes energy produced in a coal-burning power
plant 200 miles away and transforms it into compressed air that travels by
hose to a Chicago Pneumatic impact wrench that grips rusty bolts last
tightened 60 years ago by someone in Springfield, and rounds them off.
PRYBAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or bracket you
needed to remove in order to replace a 50 cent part.
HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to cut hoses 1/2 inch too short.
--0-2110858842-992538136=:77198--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Subaru - Alternative engines |
Alan,
Sorry I have taken so long to reply to your request about a Subaru
engine as used in your friend's Pietenpol.
Duane Woolsey in Utah built a beautiful Piet and used an EA81 Subaru
engine with excellent results. You might contact him at
dlwoolsey(at)home.com .
I am just finishing up a Piet with an EA82 turbocharged and injected
engine and hope to have a good performing machine. My calculations
indicate a rate of climb at this altitude (7200 ft) of over 1200 fpm.
The engine is rated in the car at 111 hp at only 4800 rpm here in the
U.S. In Japan they turn the engine at 5500 to develop 135 hp. I made a
belt drive prop reduction unit which reduces the engine rpm at 2.35:1.
I will be anxious to hear about how your friend's Piet performs and
especially the size prop he is using, diameter, pitch and chord in
particular.
Contact Duane, he is really the expert with Subaru engines.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: All about tools... |
Shad Bell,
This is the sort of email "stuff" that is not appropriate for the Piet List,
please refrain from sending it to the Piet group, it does not meet the
crieteria established by the host provider, Matronics.
Rodger Childs
----- Original Message -----
From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
; "dennis,judy mcguire" ;
"molly truex"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: All about tools...
>
>
> Note: forwarded message attached.
>
>
> Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
> http://buzz.yahoo.com/
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:02:16 -0700 (PDT)
> From: huffman steve <ap_steve(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: Fwd: All about tools...
> To: Terry Snodgrass ,
> tony ray summers ,
> jason swords , dave williamson
,
> brenda zimbleman , caleb beachy
,
> shad bell , john cunnane ,
> Mike Huffman ,
> scott mckittrick ,
> mike murray
>
> --0-2110858842-992538136=:77198
>
>
> Note: forwarded message attached.
>
>
> --0-2110858842-992538136=:77198
>
> From: Casraskal(at)aol.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:36:47 EDT
> Subject: All about tools...
> To: ALC(at)kfoc.net, t.goenjr(at)worldnet.att.net, ap_steve(at)yahoo.com,
> smhdk(at)flash.net, larjowal(at)webtv.net, cwlock(at)flash.net,
> paulmarion(at)webtv.net, Ljtmn(at)aol.com, handyway(at)ionet.net
>
>
> For the man in the family...
>
> HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is
used
> as a kind of divining rod to locate expensive parts not far from the
object
> we are trying to hit.
>
> MECHANIC'S KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of cardboard
> cartons delivered to your front door; works particularly well on boxes
> containing seats and motorcycle jackets.
>
> ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning steel Pop rivets in their
> holes until you die of old age, but it also works great for drilling
mounting
> holes in fenders just above the brake line that goes to the rear wheel.
>
> PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads.
>
> HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board
principle.
> It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and the
more
> you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your future becomes.
>
> VICE- GRIPS: Used to round off bolt heads. If nothing else is available,
they
> can also be used to transfer intense welding heat to the palm of your
hand.
>
> OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting various flammable
> objects in your garage on fire. Also handy for igniting the grease inside
a
> brake drum you're trying to get the bearing grease out of.
>
> WHITWORTH SOCKETS: Once used for working on older British cars and
> motorcycles, they are now used mainly for impersonating that 9/16 or 1/2
> socket you've been searching for, the last 15 minutes.
>
> DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat
metal
> bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and flings
> your beer across the room, splattering it against that freshly painted
part
> you were drying.
>
> WIRE WHEEL: Cleans rust off old bolts and then throws them somewhere under
> the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprint whorls and
> hard-earned guitar calluses in about the time it takes you to say,
"Ouch...."
>
> HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering a motorcycle to the ground after
you
> have installed your new front disk brake set-up, trapping the jack handle
> firmly under the front fender.
>
> EIGHT-FOOT LONG DOUGLAS FIR 2X4: Used for levering a motorcycle upward
> off a hydraulic jack.
>
> TWEEZERS: A tool for removing wood splinters.
>
> PHONE: Tool for calling your neighbor to see if he has another hydraulic
> floor jack.
>
> SNAP-ON GASKET SCRAPER: Theoretically useful as a sandwich tool for
spreading
> mayonnaise; used mainly for getting dog-doo off your boot.
>
> E-Z OUT BOLT AND STUD EXTRACTOR: A tool that snaps off in bolt holes and
is
> ten times harder than any known drill bit.
>
> TIMING LIGHT: A stroboscopic instrument for illuminating grease build up.
>
> TWO-TON HYDRAULIC ENGINE HOIST: A handy tool for testing the tensile
strength
> of ground straps and brake lines you may have forgotten to disconnect.
>
> CRAFTSMAN 1/2 x 16-INCH SCREWDRIVER: A large motor mount prying tool that
> inexplicably has an accurately machined screwdriver tip on the end without
> the handle.
>
> BATTERY ELECTROLYTE TESTER: A handy tool for transferring sulfuric acid
from
> a car battery to the inside of your tool box after determining that your
> battery is dead as a door nail, just as you thought.
>
> METAL SNIPS: See hacksaw.
>
> TROUBLE LIGHT: The mechanic's own tanning booth. Sometimes called a drop
> light, it is a good source of vitamin D, "the sunshine vitamin," which is
not
> otherwise found under motorcycles at night. Health benefits aside, its
main
> purpose is to consume 40-watt light bulbs at about the same rate that
105-mm
> howitzer shells might be used during, say, the first few hours of the
Battle
> of the Bulge. More often dark than light, its name is somewhat misleading.
>
> PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the lids of old-style
> paper-and-tin oil cans and splash oil on your shirt; can also be used, as
the
> name implies, to round off Phillips screw heads and can double as oil
filter
> removal wrench by stabbing through stubborn oil filters.
>
> AIR COMPRESSOR: A machine that takes energy produced in a coal-burning
power
> plant 200 miles away and transforms it into compressed air that travels by
> hose to a Chicago Pneumatic impact wrench that grips rusty bolts last
> tightened 60 years ago by someone in Springfield, and rounds them off.
>
> PRYBAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or bracket
you
> needed to remove in order to replace a 50 cent part.
>
> HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to cut hoses 1/2 inch too short.
>
>
> For the man in the
family...
>
>
HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is
used
>
as a kind of divining rod to locate expensive parts not far from the
object
>
we are trying to hit.
>
>
MECHANIC'S KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of
cardboard
>
cartons delivered to your front door; works particularly well on boxes
>
containing seats and motorcycle jackets.
>
>
ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning steel Pop rivets in
their
>
holes until you die of old age, but it also works great for drilling
mounting
>
holes in fenders just above the brake line that goes to the rear
wheel.
>
>
PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads.
>
>
HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board
principle.
>
It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and
the more
>
you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your future
becomes.
>
>
VICE- GRIPS: Used to round off bolt heads. If nothing else is
available, they
>
can also be used to transfer intense welding heat to the palm of your
hand.
>
>
OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting various
flammable
>
objects in your garage on fire. Also handy for igniting the grease
inside a
>
brake drum you're trying to get the bearing grease out of.
>
>
WHITWORTH SOCKETS: Once used for working on older British cars and
>
motorcycles, they are now used mainly for impersonating that 9/16 or
1/2
>
socket you've been searching for, the last 15 minutes.
>
>
DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat
metal
>
bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and
flings
>
your beer across the room, splattering it against that freshly painted
part
>
you were drying.
>
>
WIRE WHEEL: Cleans rust off old bolts and then throws them somewhere
under
>
the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprint whorls
and
>
hard-earned guitar calluses in about the time it takes you to say,
"Ouch...."
>
>
HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering a motorcycle to the ground
after you
>
have installed your new front disk brake set-up, trapping the jack
handle
>
firmly under the front fender.
>
>
EIGHT-FOOT LONG DOUGLAS FIR 2X4: Used for levering a motorcycle upward
>
off a hydraulic jack.
>
>
TWEEZERS: A tool for removing wood splinters.
>
>
PHONE: Tool for calling your neighbor to see if he has another
hydraulic
>
floor jack.
>
>
SNAP-ON GASKET SCRAPER: Theoretically useful as a sandwich tool for
spreading
>
mayonnaise; used mainly for getting dog-doo off your boot.
>
>
E-Z OUT BOLT AND STUD EXTRACTOR: A tool that snaps off in bolt holes
and is
>
ten times harder than any known drill bit.
>
>
TIMING LIGHT: A stroboscopic instrument for illuminating grease build
up.
>
>
TWO-TON HYDRAULIC ENGINE HOIST: A handy tool for testing the tensile
strength
>
of ground straps and brake lines you may have forgotten to disconnect.
>
>
CRAFTSMAN 1/2 x 16-INCH SCREWDRIVER: A large motor mount prying tool
that
>
inexplicably has an accurately machined screwdriver tip on the end
without
>
the handle.
>
>
BATTERY ELECTROLYTE TESTER: A handy tool for transferring sulfuric
acid from
>
a car battery to the inside of your tool box after determining that
your
>
battery is dead as a door nail, just as you thought.
>
>
METAL SNIPS: See hacksaw.
>
>
TROUBLE LIGHT: The mechanic's own tanning booth. Sometimes called a
drop
>
light, it is a good source of vitamin D, "the sunshine vitamin," which
is not
>
otherwise found under motorcycles at night. Health benefits aside, its
main
>
purpose is to consume 40-watt light bulbs at about the same rate that
105-mm
>
howitzer shells might be used during, say, the first few hours of the
Battle
>
of the Bulge. More often dark than light, its name is somewhat
misleading.
>
>
PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the lids of old-style
>
paper-and-tin oil cans and splash oil on your shirt; can also be used,
as the
>
name implies, to round off Phillips screw heads and can double as oil
filter
>
removal wrench by stabbing through stubborn oil filters.
>
>
AIR COMPRESSOR: A machine that takes energy produced in a coal-burning
power
>
plant 200 miles away and transforms it into compressed air that
travels by
>
hose to a Chicago Pneumatic impact wrench that grips rusty bolts last
>
tightened 60 years ago by someone in Springfield, and rounds them off.
>
>
PRYBAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or
bracket you
>
needed to remove in order to replace a 50 cent part.
>
>
HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to cut hoses 1/2 inch too short.
>
>
>
>
> --0-2110858842-992538136=:77198--
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | Fwd: All about tools... |
I thought it was funny. And I did use a hammer on my piet,
there its connected.
Steve E. :)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rodger &
Betty Childs
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: All about tools...
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
Shad Bell,
This is the sort of email "stuff" that is not appropriate for the Piet List,
please refrain from sending it to the Piet group, it does not meet the
crieteria established by the host provider, Matronics.
Rodger Childs
----- Original Message -----
From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
; "dennis,judy mcguire" ;
"molly truex"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: All about tools...
>
>
> Note: forwarded message attached.
>
>
> Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
> http://buzz.yahoo.com/
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:02:16 -0700 (PDT)
> From: huffman steve <ap_steve(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: Fwd: All about tools...
> To: Terry Snodgrass ,
> tony ray summers ,
> jason swords , dave williamson
,
> brenda zimbleman , caleb beachy
,
> shad bell , john cunnane ,
> Mike Huffman ,
> scott mckittrick ,
> mike murray
>
> --0-2110858842-992538136=:77198
>
>
> Note: forwarded message attached.
>
>
> --0-2110858842-992538136=:77198
>
> From: Casraskal(at)aol.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:36:47 EDT
> Subject: All about tools...
> To: ALC(at)kfoc.net, t.goenjr(at)worldnet.att.net, ap_steve(at)yahoo.com,
> smhdk(at)flash.net, larjowal(at)webtv.net, cwlock(at)flash.net,
> paulmarion(at)webtv.net, Ljtmn(at)aol.com, handyway(at)ionet.net
>
>
> For the man in the family...
>
> HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is
used
> as a kind of divining rod to locate expensive parts not far from the
object
> we are trying to hit.
>
> MECHANIC'S KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of cardboard
> cartons delivered to your front door; works particularly well on boxes
> containing seats and motorcycle jackets.
>
> ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning steel Pop rivets in their
> holes until you die of old age, but it also works great for drilling
mounting
> holes in fenders just above the brake line that goes to the rear wheel.
>
> PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads.
>
> HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board
principle.
> It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and the
more
> you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your future becomes.
>
> VICE- GRIPS: Used to round off bolt heads. If nothing else is available,
they
> can also be used to transfer intense welding heat to the palm of your
hand.
>
> OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting various flammable
> objects in your garage on fire. Also handy for igniting the grease inside
a
> brake drum you're trying to get the bearing grease out of.
>
> WHITWORTH SOCKETS: Once used for working on older British cars and
> motorcycles, they are now used mainly for impersonating that 9/16 or 1/2
> socket you've been searching for, the last 15 minutes.
>
> DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat
metal
> bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and flings
> your beer across the room, splattering it against that freshly painted
part
> you were drying.
>
> WIRE WHEEL: Cleans rust off old bolts and then throws them somewhere under
> the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprint whorls and
> hard-earned guitar calluses in about the time it takes you to say,
"Ouch...."
>
> HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering a motorcycle to the ground after
you
> have installed your new front disk brake set-up, trapping the jack handle
> firmly under the front fender.
>
> EIGHT-FOOT LONG DOUGLAS FIR 2X4: Used for levering a motorcycle upward
> off a hydraulic jack.
>
> TWEEZERS: A tool for removing wood splinters.
>
> PHONE: Tool for calling your neighbor to see if he has another hydraulic
> floor jack.
>
> SNAP-ON GASKET SCRAPER: Theoretically useful as a sandwich tool for
spreading
> mayonnaise; used mainly for getting dog-doo off your boot.
>
> E-Z OUT BOLT AND STUD EXTRACTOR: A tool that snaps off in bolt holes and
is
> ten times harder than any known drill bit.
>
> TIMING LIGHT: A stroboscopic instrument for illuminating grease build up.
>
> TWO-TON HYDRAULIC ENGINE HOIST: A handy tool for testing the tensile
strength
> of ground straps and brake lines you may have forgotten to disconnect.
>
> CRAFTSMAN 1/2 x 16-INCH SCREWDRIVER: A large motor mount prying tool that
> inexplicably has an accurately machined screwdriver tip on the end without
> the handle.
>
> BATTERY ELECTROLYTE TESTER: A handy tool for transferring sulfuric acid
from
> a car battery to the inside of your tool box after determining that your
> battery is dead as a door nail, just as you thought.
>
> METAL SNIPS: See hacksaw.
>
> TROUBLE LIGHT: The mechanic's own tanning booth. Sometimes called a drop
> light, it is a good source of vitamin D, "the sunshine vitamin," which is
not
> otherwise found under motorcycles at night. Health benefits aside, its
main
> purpose is to consume 40-watt light bulbs at about the same rate that
105-mm
> howitzer shells might be used during, say, the first few hours of the
Battle
> of the Bulge. More often dark than light, its name is somewhat misleading.
>
> PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the lids of old-style
> paper-and-tin oil cans and splash oil on your shirt; can also be used, as
the
> name implies, to round off Phillips screw heads and can double as oil
filter
> removal wrench by stabbing through stubborn oil filters.
>
> AIR COMPRESSOR: A machine that takes energy produced in a coal-burning
power
> plant 200 miles away and transforms it into compressed air that travels by
> hose to a Chicago Pneumatic impact wrench that grips rusty bolts last
> tightened 60 years ago by someone in Springfield, and rounds them off.
>
> PRYBAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or bracket
you
> needed to remove in order to replace a 50 cent part.
>
> HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to cut hoses 1/2 inch too short.
>
>
> For the man in the
family...
>
>
HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is
used
>
as a kind of divining rod to locate expensive parts not far from the
object
>
we are trying to hit.
>
>
MECHANIC'S KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of
cardboard
>
cartons delivered to your front door; works particularly well on boxes
>
containing seats and motorcycle jackets.
>
>
ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning steel Pop rivets in
their
>
holes until you die of old age, but it also works great for drilling
mounting
>
holes in fenders just above the brake line that goes to the rear
wheel.
>
>
PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads.
>
>
HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board
principle.
>
It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and
the more
>
you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your future
becomes.
>
>
VICE- GRIPS: Used to round off bolt heads. If nothing else is
available, they
>
can also be used to transfer intense welding heat to the palm of your
hand.
>
>
OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting various
flammable
>
objects in your garage on fire. Also handy for igniting the grease
inside a
>
brake drum you're trying to get the bearing grease out of.
>
>
WHITWORTH SOCKETS: Once used for working on older British cars and
>
motorcycles, they are now used mainly for impersonating that 9/16 or
1/2
>
socket you've been searching for, the last 15 minutes.
>
>
DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat
metal
>
bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and
flings
>
your beer across the room, splattering it against that freshly painted
part
>
you were drying.
>
>
WIRE WHEEL: Cleans rust off old bolts and then throws them somewhere
under
>
the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprint whorls
and
>
hard-earned guitar calluses in about the time it takes you to say,
"Ouch...."
>
>
HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering a motorcycle to the ground
after you
>
have installed your new front disk brake set-up, trapping the jack
handle
>
firmly under the front fender.
>
>
EIGHT-FOOT LONG DOUGLAS FIR 2X4: Used for levering a motorcycle upward
>
off a hydraulic jack.
>
>
TWEEZERS: A tool for removing wood splinters.
>
>
PHONE: Tool for calling your neighbor to see if he has another
hydraulic
>
floor jack.
>
>
SNAP-ON GASKET SCRAPER: Theoretically useful as a sandwich tool for
spreading
>
mayonnaise; used mainly for getting dog-doo off your boot.
>
>
E-Z OUT BOLT AND STUD EXTRACTOR: A tool that snaps off in bolt holes
and is
>
ten times harder than any known drill bit.
>
>
TIMING LIGHT: A stroboscopic instrument for illuminating grease build
up.
>
>
TWO-TON HYDRAULIC ENGINE HOIST: A handy tool for testing the tensile
strength
>
of ground straps and brake lines you may have forgotten to disconnect.
>
>
CRAFTSMAN 1/2 x 16-INCH SCREWDRIVER: A large motor mount prying tool
that
>
inexplicably has an accurately machined screwdriver tip on the end
without
>
the handle.
>
>
BATTERY ELECTROLYTE TESTER: A handy tool for transferring sulfuric
acid from
>
a car battery to the inside of your tool box after determining that
your
>
battery is dead as a door nail, just as you thought.
>
>
METAL SNIPS: See hacksaw.
>
>
TROUBLE LIGHT: The mechanic's own tanning booth. Sometimes called a
drop
>
light, it is a good source of vitamin D, "the sunshine vitamin," which
is not
>
otherwise found under motorcycles at night. Health benefits aside, its
main
>
purpose is to consume 40-watt light bulbs at about the same rate that
105-mm
>
howitzer shells might be used during, say, the first few hours of the
Battle
>
of the Bulge. More often dark than light, its name is somewhat
misleading.
>
>
PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the lids of old-style
>
paper-and-tin oil cans and splash oil on your shirt; can also be used,
as the
>
name implies, to round off Phillips screw heads and can double as oil
filter
>
removal wrench by stabbing through stubborn oil filters.
>
>
AIR COMPRESSOR: A machine that takes energy produced in a coal-burning
power
>
plant 200 miles away and transforms it into compressed air that
travels by
>
hose to a Chicago Pneumatic impact wrench that grips rusty bolts last
>
tightened 60 years ago by someone in Springfield, and rounds them off.
>
>
PRYBAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or
bracket you
>
needed to remove in order to replace a 50 cent part.
>
>
HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to cut hoses 1/2 inch too short.
>
>
>
>
> --0-2110858842-992538136=:77198--
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
HI FRIENDS
WELL, I NEED SOME HELP ON THE ELEVATOR CONTROL CABLES:
THIS IS THE PROBLEM:
THE CABLES ARE ADJUSTED WITH THE CONTROL TUBE SET ON
NEUTRAL (0 DEGREES), AND THE TORQUE TUBE SAME ( 0
DEGREES) THE CABLES ARE AT 30 POUNDS OF TENSION
(RECOMENDED BY A AVIATION MECHANIC), WHEN I MOVE THE
CONTROL TUBE 20 DEGREES NOSE UP OR NOSE DOWN THE
CABLES LOSE THE TENSION , BECOME LOOSE TOO MUCH,
ALREADY CHECK ALL THE MEASURES, CONTROL TUBE, PULLEYS,
TORQUE TUBE ETC. BUT ALL LOOKS FINE, THE ONLY
DIFERENCE WITH THE PLANS IS THE POSITION OF THE TORQUE
TUBE, IT WAS RAISED 1.5 INCHES SO THE CABLES DON'T
THE TORQUE TUBE ON THE CORRECT POSITION, BUT THE
PROBLEM STILL PERSIST.
ANY COMMENTS?
ANOTHER QUESTION:
I HAVE ADJUSTED THE ELEVATOR 24 DEGREES DOWN, 28
DEGREES UP, THAT IS RIGHT?
THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR HELP
SALUDOS DESDE MEXICO
JAVIER CRUZ
Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
http://buzz.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Pietenpol-List message posted by: javier cruz
HI FRIENDS
WELL, I NEED SOME HELP ON THE ELEVATOR CONTROL CABLES:
THIS IS THE PROBLEM:
THE CABLES ARE ADJUSTED WITH THE CONTROL TUBE SET ON
NEUTRAL (0 DEGREES), AND THE TORQUE TUBE SAME ( 0
DEGREES) THE CABLES ARE AT 30 POUNDS OF TENSION
(RECOMENDED BY A AVIATION MECHANIC), WHEN I MOVE THE
CONTROL TUBE 20 DEGREES NOSE UP OR NOSE DOWN THE
CABLES LOSE THE TENSION , BECOME LOOSE TOO MUCH,
------------------------
I don"t know about that 30 lbs. I don't know what the tension on my
control cables is, I adjusted the turnbuckles until the cables worked.
MikeB Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: contol cables |
In a message dated 6/18/01 12:45:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
> WELL, I NEED SOME HELP ON THE ELEVATOR CONTROL CABLES:
> THIS IS THE PROBLEM:
> THE CABLES ARE ADJUSTED WITH THE CONTROL TUBE SET ON
> NEUTRAL (0 DEGREES), AND THE TORQUE TUBE SAME ( 0
> DEGREES) THE CABLES ARE AT 30 POUNDS OF TENSION
> (RECOMENDED BY A AVIATION MECHANIC), WHEN I MOVE THE
> CONTROL TUBE 20 DEGREES NOSE UP OR NOSE DOWN THE
> CABLES LOSE THE TENSION , BECOME LOOSE TOO MUCH,
> ------------------------
>
> I don"t know about that 30 lbs. I don't know what the tension on my
> control cables is, I adjusted the turnbuckles until the cables worked.
>
> MikeB Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
>
>
Mike,
Use the method mentioned above until it works. Travel sounds right. My
experience is that none of the control cables need to be any tighter than
needed to make them work. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Posting for a previous list member: Walter Allen
Ford Escort o Time engine with a 2.5 belt reduction drive. This is for a
Pietenpol Aircamper. I would sell it for $900.00 (about the cost of the
reduction unit)trade it for a rotax 503 or any other interesting items.
overalles(at)hotmail.com
steve e.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: control cables |
----- Original Message -----
From: "javier cruz" <javcr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: control cables
> hi, Javier,
If you diagram the relationship between the control arm on the elevator and
the control arm on the jackshaft in the fuselage, you will find that the
length of the cables connecting the two control arms change as the control
movement changes. This essentially means that unless the two arms are the
same length, there will always be slack at one of the extreme position or
the other. Your only solution to keep constant tension on the cables is to
change the length of one or the other arms to match the remaining arm.
There are a lot of Pietenpols flying with the arms as shown on the plans,
just be sure that you have cable guards on all the pulleys so that when the
cables go slack at the extreme positions, they will not jump off of the
pulley.
Hang in there Javier! John
> HI FRIENDS
>
> WELL, I NEED SOME HELP ON THE ELEVATOR CONTROL CABLES:
> THIS IS THE PROBLEM:
> THE CABLES ARE ADJUSTED WITH THE CONTROL TUBE SET ON
> NEUTRAL (0 DEGREES), AND THE TORQUE TUBE SAME ( 0
> DEGREES) THE CABLES ARE AT 30 POUNDS OF TENSION
> (RECOMENDED BY A AVIATION MECHANIC), WHEN I MOVE THE
> CONTROL TUBE 20 DEGREES NOSE UP OR NOSE DOWN THE
> CABLES LOSE THE TENSION , BECOME LOOSE TOO MUCH,
> ALREADY CHECK ALL THE MEASURES, CONTROL TUBE, PULLEYS,
> TORQUE TUBE ETC. BUT ALL LOOKS FINE, THE ONLY
> DIFERENCE WITH THE PLANS IS THE POSITION OF THE TORQUE
> TUBE, IT WAS RAISED 1.5 INCHES SO THE CABLES DON'T
> THE TORQUE TUBE ON THE CORRECT POSITION, BUT THE
> PROBLEM STILL PERSIST.
> ANY COMMENTS?
>
> ANOTHER QUESTION:
> I HAVE ADJUSTED THE ELEVATOR 24 DEGREES DOWN, 28
> DEGREES UP, THAT IS RIGHT?
>
> THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR HELP
>
>
> SALUDOS DESDE MEXICO
> JAVIER CRUZ
>
> .
> http://buzz.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry D. Morgan, Sr., MCP" <mrfixit(at)accessunited.com> |
| Subject: | Fwd: All about tools... |
I liked it too...
More coming with my Visit to Wisconsin and Doc Mosher and the EAA
Terry in Ga
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 06/19/01 |
Great flying last night. These summer evening are just great. Arm out in
the wind no bumps at all. Spectacular sunset.
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 06/19/01 |
Great flying last night. These summer evening are just great. Arm out in
the wind no bumps at all. Spectacular sunset.
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi everyone I have a question on control cable type and diameter.
The plans call for 3/32" cable for the airlerons and if I'm remembering
right ( don't have my plans with me ) they call for 1/8" cable for the
rudder and elevators. Tony Bingelis says in one of his books that 1/8" is
considered standard size for all control cables. I was planning to use S/S
cable 1/8" for everything because of the salt air here in Hot Muggy Fl. Am I
on the right track or is 1/8" too heavy?
would I be better off to save weight by useing 3/32"???
If I could get an idea of what the flying Piets are useing that would be
a big help. Thanks in advance.
Ed G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Steve E. here 1/8" SS everywhere.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ed
Grentzer
Subject: Pietenpol-List: control cables
Hi everyone I have a question on control cable type and diameter.
The plans call for 3/32" cable for the airlerons and if I'm remembering
right ( don't have my plans with me ) they call for 1/8" cable for the
rudder and elevators. Tony Bingelis says in one of his books that 1/8" is
considered standard size for all control cables. I was planning to use S/S
cable 1/8" for everything because of the salt air here in Hot Muggy Fl. Am I
on the right track or is 1/8" too heavy?
would I be better off to save weight by useing 3/32"???
If I could get an idea of what the flying Piets are useing that would be
a big help. Thanks in advance.
Ed G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Mike C. here: I used per plans diams. of 1/8" to the elev. bellcrank,
then 3/32 from there and to brace the tail feathers, and 3/32" for the
aileron cables.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: control cables |
Ed Grentzer wrote:
I was planning to use S/S
> cable 1/8" for everything because of the salt air here in Hot Muggy Fl. Am I
> on the right track or is 1/8" too heavy?
> would I be better off to save weight by useing 3/32"???
> If I could get an idea of what the flying Piets are useing that would be
> a big help. Thanks in advance.
>
> Ed G.
Hi Ed,
I don't know about the others, but I'm going by the plans on this - 1/8"
SS from the rear stick to the bellcrank, 3/32 from there back to the
elevators, 3/32 for the rudder and tailwheel cables, and 3/32 for the
ailerons. 3/32" Stainless Steel cable 7 x 19 is good for 920 lbs, and I
doubt the control surfaces can stand that much load. The reason you
need 1/8" cable from the stick to the bellcrank is that it carries the
load from BOTH elevators.
The weight difference is considerable between 1/8 and 3/32. There is
right at 100' of 3/32 cable in the Pietenpol (just controls, not
counting bracing wire), and according to the Wicks catalog, 3/32"
7x19 stainless steel cable weighs 1.74 lbs per 100', but 1/8" 7x19
weighs 2.90 lbs per 100', so by using the larger cable you are adding
1.16 lbs and gaining nothing since the lighter cable is strong enough.
You actually add more weight than that since 1/8" cable requires a
larger heavier Nicopress sleeve (solid copper and HEAVY), larger pulleys
(if you are using pulleys) and so forth. it all adds up, and it is all
aft of the CG (which is fine if you have that large chunk of ballast
known as a Model A engine, but tough on a lightweight engine like a
Continental).
It certainly won't hurt to use 1/8" throughout, but it is not necessary.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Jack Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | Embroidered Piet hats for 2001 |
I got this years hats back from the embroiderer (sp?) today. They look
fine!
http:\\aircamper.byu.edu
The front is the Aircamper logo, and the back has "low and slow for 70
years" embroidered on it.
I have mailed off those who pre ordered, and have plenty left. If there are
any left I will have them available at Brodhead this year. For those of you
who can't wait, I have the following colors:
Black
Blue
Green
The Hat:
Heavy Stone Washed Denim low crown unconstructed
brass buckle back adjustment. Color is khaki with the specified color bill
and matching grommets and button.
One size fits all. Basically I got my favorite hat and called the
manufacture and spec'd it from it. You will love it. It is crushable,
comfortable, and washable. You can even remove the button on top if you
like for a more comfortable headset fit.
$20 plus $3 shipping each
Free shipping if you order more than one at a time...
Steve Eldredge
1005 E. 620 N.
Provo, UT 84606
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: control cables |
In a message dated 6/20/01 10:24:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com writes:
> Hi everyone I have a question on control cable type and diameter.
> The plans call for 3/32" cable for the airlerons and if I'm remembering
> right ( don't have my plans with me ) they call for 1/8" cable for the
> rudder and elevators. Tony Bingelis says in one of his books that 1/8" is
> considered standard size for all control cables. I was planning to use S/S
> cable 1/8" for everything because of the salt air here in Hot Muggy Fl. Am
> I
> on the right track or is 1/8" too heavy?
> would I be better off to save weight by useing 3/32"???
> If I could get an idea of what the flying Piets are useing that would be
> a big help. Thanks in advance.
>
> Ed G.
>
>
>
Ed,
I always recommend staying as close the plans as one can stand. Stainless is
good . I am on my fifth airplane and continue to be amazed at how well this
plane is designed. Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
Anyone out there with any familiarity of this powder painting process. Sure
would like to hear from you.
Corky in thunder and lightning La tonight
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
see article on MacLarens web site
http://members.aol.com/bpabpabpa/powder.html
Henry Williams - building ribs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Powdercoating article |
Henry,
thanks for looking up the web address for the powdercoating article on
Grant's website for me. I wrote the article and it was supposed to be
published in the next BPA newsletter edition which was never put out by
Grant.
Grant is much maligned for dropping the BPA newsletter with dues owed to
members for not finishing out the year as he promised, but we need to give
him credit for doing what he did accomplish when no one else came up to the
task.
For a nonairplane guy, he is all right.
Things have changed a little bit on the Powdercoating technology front but
the article is still valid and it is the only way to go.
Chris Bobka
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Powdercoating article |
| From: | KGardner(at)odu.edu |
06/22/2001 09:50:09 AM
Hi List,
Just my 2 cents' worth re Grant MacClaren:
His web site was my first resource for finding real useful information on
Pietenpols & continues to be helpful. The fact that he keeps it going &
updated to some degree I think is highly comendable, all things considered.
I sent him money to join the BPA, but he never cashed the check, so I don't
feel like I was ever 'out' anything. Considering the effort it takes to get
a web site up & maintained (witness the length of time it is taking the
'new' BPA to get content on their site - it's a huge job!) Grant could
have cashed my check & I still wouldn't have felt 'out' anything. I hope he
feels supported enough to keep the site up indefinitely!
Cheers,
Kip Gardner
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences
Old Dominion University
Norfolk, VA 23529
Ph: 757-683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Honor Veterans - Stop War"
(On the car of a friend who is a decorated WWII veteran)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Norman Stapelberg <stapres(at)mweb.co.za> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
I have a Eastwood powder coating sys. I'm using it on our pete & a lot of
other painting project. If you have any question I'm sure I can shed
some lite on the subject. There is a web site you might want to look at
www.hotcoat.com
Dale Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Emch" <emchair(at)cros.net> |
Hey Pietenpol Listers,
I finally ran my A-65 Continental for the first time on Thursday. What a great
feeling! It had not run since January of 1950. Absolutely wonderful to feel
the wind from my own 'almost Piet'! I have a couple of questions for you Continental
experts out there, especially ones not using a primer. What is your
cold start procedure? I seem to flood it very easily. While it was flooded it
kicked back on me. Is this from flooding or maybe something else. After I
shut it down and restart it, it starts easily on the first pull. It ran smoothly
and sounded great, its just that my starting procedure must be a little off
because I can't seem to find the fine line between flooding and not enough fuel.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Don Emch
With wind blown hair in Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A-65 questions |
>
>Hey Pietenpol Listers,
>I finally ran my A-65 Continental for the first time on Thursday.
>What a great feeling! It had not run since January of 1950.
>Absolutely wonderful to feel the wind from my own 'almost Piet'!
>I have a couple of questions for you Continental experts out there,
>especially ones not using a primer. What is your cold start procedure?
Don,
The way Charlie the mechanic showed me to start my TCart is:
Step 0 - Make sure the mag grounds are working.
From full cold:
1 - Switch off, throttle FULLY closed, fuel on
2 - Pull about 6 blades forward. The carb will sound "squishy" and wet.
3 - Switch on, throttle closed, flip it. Fingers not wrapped over the
edge of the prop. It should light right off.
If you flood it:
1 - Switch off, throttle wide open, fuel on.
2 - Pull 20 blades backward
3 - Switch on, throttle fully closed, flip it. I have found that slightly
cracked on the throttle helps if it is flooded because it lessens the choking
action of the carb.
Hot start:
1 - Switch on, thottle closed, flip.
2 - If it doesn't light off in two flips then treat it as flooded.
Notice that the primer is never touched. It is hard to lock again anyway
on my plane :-). I generally get a start in one or two flips when cold.
Hot starts can be a workout if you blow it.
I have begun doing my starts on the left mag only because that on has
the impulse coupler on my plane. It cuts down on the kickbacks, esp.
when warm.
Dave
Retsof, NY N36078 1941 BC-12-65
Bummed out by the weather. We were going to Sentimental Journey today. :-(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Aero Safety Starter |
Just saw the most interesting starter that I've ever seen. Stopped in at my
mentors house this morning and he was mounting it on his new homebuilt.
Built in about 1945 ( this one never used), it's got a back plate, and a
geared plate hooked to the crank. The action only goes about 180 deg. and
this is activated through a cable to the cockpit. Where this is hooked to a
vertical lever.
The idea is to get the engine started and warm, shut it down and get in.
Pull the lever till you get on a compression, switch on, then flip it and
it's running.
Anyone ever see one of these?
"Aero Safety Starter"
McDowell Mfg Co.
Pittsburg Pa.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Safety Starter |
> Anyone ever see one of these?
> "Aero Safety Starter"
> McDowell Mfg Co.
> Pittsburg Pa.
They were used on the Aeronca Chief, if nothing else.
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Safety Starter |
Sounds more like my T Model than an aeroplane
Corky in beautiful America, Louisiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Williams" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
About six months ago John Fay and I sent our complete collections of BPANewsletters
to a guy named Mike Bell in Gaston, NC. He had promised that he would make
copies of them available to anyone who would send him a check.
After repeated E-mail and phone contacts, I have yet to get my originals
back. I was wondering if anyone who sent him money for the copies has received
them or have we all been taken to the cleaners.
We lament the lack of participation and volunteers in our society but it
doesn't take too many of these experiences to sour even nice guys (like me!).
Hopefully he's just R-E-A-L slow and I'll get my stuff back soon. I hope
those of you who sent him money got your newsletters.
Getting ready to cover my wings!!!
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Ed G.) |
| Subject: | Re: BPANewsletters |
I got mine Mke was great about getting them out promptly as promised.
I'm sure you'll get your copies back.
Ed G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bernard Lefebvre <napo(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: BPANewsletters |
Hi Larry! I did order and received my copies from Mike Bell all within three
weeks from the date I sent him a money order. Very satisfied!
Best regards from the Great White North!
Bernard P. Lefebvre
Val d'Or, Quebec
Larry Williams a crit :
>
> About six months ago John Fay and I sent our complete collections of BPAN> ewsletters
to a guy named Mike Bell in Gaston, NC. He had promised that h> e would
make copies of them available to anyone who would send him a chec> k.
>
> After repeated E-mail and phone contacts, I have yet to get my originals
> back. I was wondering if anyone who sent him money for the copies has rec> eived
them or have we all been taken to the cleaners.
>
> We lament the lack of participation and volunteers in our society but it
> doesn't take too many of these experiences to sour even nice guys (like m> e!).
>
> Hopefully he's just R-E-A-L slow and I'll get my stuff back soon. I hope
> those of you who sent him money got your newsletters.
>
> Getting ready to cover my wings!!!
>
> Larry
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: BPANewsletters |
Mike did exactly as promised. A lot of work I'm sure and I appreciate him
making these back issues available to the new kids on the block.
Corky, reading the back issues in La
P S I understand that the inconsiderate granddaughter and her prospective
have had a few spats or disagreements or differences of mind, call it what
you want. I may make Brodhead after all.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
Terry Morgan,
AC43 is Advisory Circular 43 which is formally titled "Maintenance, Repair,
and Alteration of Certified Aircraft, Aircraft Engines, Propellers, and
Instruments".
It is the standard to which all work on aircraft must be done. Although
homebuilts do not have to meet the standards in this book, it is a good
idea if you want the FAA to give you an airworthiness certificate or if you
want to see the successful completion of your first flight.
Most of the info in it dates to the trial and error period of the 20s and
30s. After a while and enough fatalities, someone got the great idea to
write down what works in a book. This is the book.
The book has been updated about every 25 years, the last revision coming
out just a year or so ago.
During the pre 1957 CAA days (prior to the FAA), this book was known as CAM
18 for Cival Aeronautics Manual 18.
A copy will probably run you about 12.50 postpaid if you get it through me
when I order a bunch from Jeppesen wholesale and it is probably the single
most important book to have if you are building an airplane. If you get it
at the local airport, it is probably about 25 bucks plus tax.
Chris Bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Chris,
I've relied on the Bingelis books for this type info in addition to local
help. Do you think I should send my $12.50 plus S & H?
Corky, making his eyebrows and cowlings in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
......or, you can go here and get any part you want
http://www.moneypit.net/~pratt/ac43
and it will make you think about a number of things you have done or are
going to do...{;~)
Cheers,
Warren
Christian Bobka wrote:
> Although
> homebuilts do not have to meet the standards in this book, it is a good
> idea
> someone got the great idea to
> write down what works in a book. This is the book.
>
> The book has been updated about every 25 years, the last revision coming
> out just a year or so ago.
>
> If you get it
> at the local airport, it is probably about 25 bucks plus tax.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
Corky,
Take a look at an old copy Mr Harvey must have lying around out at
LucienField and you make the call. Or look at the moneypit website. I
think that at 12 bucks or so, any recommended book is worth having.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Safety Starter |
11a Aeronca Chiefs used them the name was the "McDowell Safety Starter" They
sound like a good idea.
I almost bought a Chief about ten years ago and still have the Service
Manual for them. None of the Chiefs I looked at still had the starter as
most owners I talked to said the engine started better when swung by hand.
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aero Safety Starter
>
> Just saw the most interesting starter that I've ever seen. Stopped in at
my
> mentors house this morning and he was mounting it on his new homebuilt.
> Built in about 1945 ( this one never used), it's got a back plate, and a
> geared plate hooked to the crank. The action only goes about 180 deg. and
> this is activated through a cable to the cockpit. Where this is hooked to
a
> vertical lever.
> The idea is to get the engine started and warm, shut it down and get in.
> Pull the lever till you get on a compression, switch on, then flip it and
> it's running.
> Anyone ever see one of these?
> "Aero Safety Starter"
> McDowell Mfg Co.
> Pittsburg Pa.
>
> walt
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Safety Starter |
John,
Actually the "Aero Safety Starter", and the company address I took right off
of the nameplate. Not to nit pick.
Guess they were trying to make it so you could start your plane alone.
If I had one, I think I'd put it on the Piet.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero Safety Starter
>
> 11a Aeronca Chiefs used them the name was the "McDowell Safety Starter"
They
> sound like a good idea.
> I almost bought a Chief about ten years ago and still have the Service
> Manual for them. None of the Chiefs I looked at still had the starter as
> most owners I talked to said the engine started better when swung by hand.
> John Mc
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To: piet discussion
> Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 3:19 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aero Safety Starter
>
>
>
> >
> > Just saw the most interesting starter that I've ever seen. Stopped in
at
> my
> > mentors house this morning and he was mounting it on his new homebuilt.
> > Built in about 1945 ( this one never used), it's got a back plate, and a
> > geared plate hooked to the crank. The action only goes about 180 deg.
and
> > this is activated through a cable to the cockpit. Where this is hooked
to
> a
> > vertical lever.
> > The idea is to get the engine started and warm, shut it down and get in.
> > Pull the lever till you get on a compression, switch on, then flip it
and
> > it's running.
> > Anyone ever see one of these?
> > "Aero Safety Starter"
> > McDowell Mfg Co.
> > Pittsburg Pa.
> >
> > walt
> > -----------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/01 |
Don,
What prop are you running on your C-65. And what RPM are you getting
static, in climb and in cruise? Got about 3 hours in the Piet today. It
was a wonderful day in PA. Light wind, scattered clouds, little turb.
Went to the Piper Cub flyin, Sentimental Journey, at Lockhaven Pa. You
know these Piets are considerably faster than a cub.
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Williams" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Aero-safety starter |
There's already one in use on a Piet. Bill Rewey from Madison (Verona),WI has had
one on his since he built it about 4 yrs. ago. Although he doesn't use it too
much, he does have a lot of fun with it as a curiosity.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Seibert" <r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com> |
I have read several comments about elevator stops at xx degrees up and
xx degrees down. I am curious about where the stops are located. I don't
see anything on the plans about stops.
I can usually figure out stuff like this even without plans but this
just stumps me.
Where does one put stops in the elevator control system?
Regards,
Bob Seibert
Macho Grande, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Ground looped Piet |
Hello group,
I was at the National Ercoupe Association Fly In held
at Terrell, Texas over the weekend. While there, someone
told me about a Piet that ground looped a couple of weeks
ago at Gainesville, Texas. Does anybody know anything about
this? Who's plane and where it is based?
Thanks.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Stops? |
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Seibert
To: Pietenpol list
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 1:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator Stops?
I have read several comments about elevator stops at xx degrees up and
xx degrees down. I am curious about where the stops are located. I
don't
see anything on the plans about stops.
I can usually figure out stuff like this even without plans but this
just stumps me.
Where does one put stops in the elevator control system?
Regards,
Bob Seibert
Macho Grande, Texas
--------------------------------
The elevator stop was designed by Ed Sampson. The diagram was
published in the BPA newsletter in the early 80's. I don't know if I
still have it, but I will dig around. In brief. it was fabricated from
1/8 X 1.5 or 2 inch Al stock. A slot was cut in the middle of the piece.
A swivel bolt was placed thru the torque tube just in front of the seat.
A 1/4 bolt thru the stick rides in the slot. A friction wing nut is
placed on the bolt. As the stick is moved fore & aft, the bolt rides in
the slot. The length of the slot is determined by the degree of up &
down elevator travel.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Stops? |
In a message dated 6/25/01 1:08:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
> I have read several comments about elevator stops at xx degrees up and
> xx degrees down. I am curious about where the stops are located. I
> don't
> see anything on the plans about stops.
> I can usually figure out stuff like this even without plans but this
> just stumps me.
> Where does one put stops in the elevator control system?
>
> Regards,
> Bob Seibert
> Macho Grande, Texas
>
>
Bob,
Stops are fine for those who want them, but like alot of things they are not
needed, and are not part of the original design. Builders choice. Doug
Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Stops? |
Not to bring up old subjects, but I've heard from guys who have been thru
the inspection , that stops are required and stops on the stick/torque tube
were not acceptable. all stops had to be right at the control surface( ON
the elevator, ON the rudder).
Don't know first hand, haven't been thru my own yet.
covering now.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: <Doug413(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elevator Stops?
>
> In a message dated 6/25/01 1:08:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
>
>
> > I have read several comments about elevator stops at xx degrees up and
> > xx degrees down. I am curious about where the stops are located. I
> > don't
> > see anything on the plans about stops.
> > I can usually figure out stuff like this even without plans but this
> > just stumps me.
> > Where does one put stops in the elevator control system?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bob Seibert
> > Macho Grande, Texas
> >
> >
>
> Bob,
>
> Stops are fine for those who want them, but like alot of things they are
not
> needed, and are not part of the original design. Builders choice.
Doug
> Bryant Wichita Ks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Stops? |
In a message dated 6/25/01 3:42:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
> Not to bring up old subjects, but I've heard from guys who have been thru
> the inspection , that stops are required and stops on the stick/torque tube
> were not acceptable. all stops had to be right at the control surface( ON
> the elevator, ON the rudder).
> Don't know first hand, haven't been thru my own yet.
> covering now.
> walt
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
Walt,
Haven't had that experience or heard any mention here. The FAA licensed my
first plane and didn't look at anything in detail, just paper. We have a DAR
on the second plane and he has looked at the plane and is waiting for us to
complete the weight /balance. I would humbly and carefully challenge that
issue against the design and its history. Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 06/24/01 |
Hi Corky:
I hope I get to meet you in Bhead, BUT, not at the expense of soured
wine.
Best to you and yours, Ryder in Beautiful Burnham, IL. Right nest to
Chigetto, and I bet you didn't know there was a nice place in IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | lower motor mount brackets |
Hi everyone to the experienced this is gonna sound like a dumb question
but here it goes; in the plans the lower motor mount brackets that bolt to
the lower front corner of the fuselage each have two tabs that bend toward
the centerline of the longeron. The tabs show 3/16" holes in them. I can't
find any fastening details but I'm assuming
(you know what that means) that 10/32 bolts go through those holes into the
fuselage front upright. If this is true then there's two for the outer half
and two for the inner half. It just seems to me that 1. thats a lot of holes
drilled through a rather highly stressed 3/4" X 1"
piece of spruce and 2. there's not a whole lot of room for nuts and washers
in between the gussets. Sooooo are there supposed to be four through bolts
that go into those brackets from the front????? Thanks in advance.
Ed G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lower motor mount brackets |
In a message dated 6/25/01 4:54:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com writes:
> >
>
>
> Hi everyone to the experienced this is gonna sound like a dumb question
> but here it goes; in the plans the lower motor mount brackets that bolt to
> the lower front corner of the fuselage each have two tabs that bend toward
> the centerline of the longeron. The tabs show 3/16" holes in them. I can't
> find any fastening details but I'm assuming
> (you know what that means) that 10/32 bolts go through those holes into the
> fuselage front upright. If this is true then there's two for the outer half
> and two for the inner half. It just seems to me that 1. thats a lot of
> holes
> drilled through a rather highly stressed 3/4" X 1"
> piece of spruce and 2. there's not a whole lot of room for nuts and washers
> in between the gussets. Sooooo are there supposed to be four through bolts
> that go into those brackets from the front????? Thanks in advance.
> Ed G.
>
>
>
Ed,
The holes in the front tabs of the lower engine mount plates are for small
wood screws. I put them in the first airplane carefully, but left them out
of the next three. I am building a Scout now and it does not have these tabs
in the design. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mckellars" <mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: lower motor mount brackets |
Ed, On the lower brackets there are no holes or bolts through the front of
the longeron or the upright between the top and bottem longeron. Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: lower motor mount brackets
>
>
> Hi everyone to the experienced this is gonna sound like a dumb
question
> but here it goes; in the plans the lower motor mount brackets that bolt to
> the lower front corner of the fuselage each have two tabs that bend toward
> the centerline of the longeron. The tabs show 3/16" holes in them. I can't
> find any fastening details but I'm assuming
> (you know what that means) that 10/32 bolts go through those holes into
the
> fuselage front upright. If this is true then there's two for the outer
half
> and two for the inner half. It just seems to me that 1. thats a lot of
holes
> drilled through a rather highly stressed 3/4" X 1"
> piece of spruce and 2. there's not a whole lot of room for nuts and
washers
> in between the gussets. Sooooo are there supposed to be four through
bolts
> that go into those brackets from the front????? Thanks in advance.
> Ed G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lower motor mount brackets |
Ed,
Best to make all your fittings out of cardboard, see how they don't really
work, and then plan from there.
Welcome to the Pietenpol.
Two truths:
Show me a man who doesn't love the smell of his own farts and I will show
you a liar.
Show me a man who says he built his Piet exactly to the plans and I'll show
you a liar.
Chris Bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lower motor mount brackets |
Thanks Chris, Doug and Mark for your replies on the Motor mount bracket
tabs. I see from your different answers that this is one of those areas that
you have to play by ear. Anywho I'm glad I asked rather than just go ahead
and start drilling too many holes. I can see the purpose of the tabs , to
help support the endwise load on the fitting but I dont like all those
holes. So I think I'll leave the tabs long, overlap them, drill one hole
through both and put one #8 screw through both. Thanks again. Ed
G.
>From: Doug413(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lower motor mount brackets
>Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:48:02 EDT
>
>
>In a message dated 6/25/01 4:54:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> > >
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone to the experienced this is gonna sound like a dumb
>question
> > but here it goes; in the plans the lower motor mount brackets that bolt
>to
> > the lower front corner of the fuselage each have two tabs that bend
>toward
> > the centerline of the longeron. The tabs show 3/16" holes in them. I
>can't
> > find any fastening details but I'm assuming
> > (you know what that means) that 10/32 bolts go through those holes into
>the
> > fuselage front upright. If this is true then there's two for the outer
>half
> > and two for the inner half. It just seems to me that 1. thats a lot of
> > holes
> > drilled through a rather highly stressed 3/4" X 1"
> > piece of spruce and 2. there's not a whole lot of room for nuts and
>washers
> > in between the gussets. Sooooo are there supposed to be four through
>bolts
> > that go into those brackets from the front????? Thanks in advance.
> > Ed G.
> >
> >
> >
>
>Ed,
>
>The holes in the front tabs of the lower engine mount plates are for small
>wood screws. I put them in the first airplane carefully, but left them out
>of the next three. I am building a Scout now and it does not have these
>tabs
>in the design. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | every inspector is different |
> "walter evans"
>
> I've heard from guys who have been thru
>the inspection , that stops are required and stops on the stick/torque tube
>were not acceptable.
Walt- Good point. In my case I DO have aileron and elevator stops on the
torque tube and stick and my inspector had no problem with that. He
actually was happy to see them. These inspectors
have no rhyme or reason with some of these issues---you won't really
know what they'll want til your inspection. Frank Pavliga has the elevator
stop strap described by Mike Brusilow, as do I, so that the elevators don't
scrape the ground if you have a tailskid or low tailwheel installation. Some
don't have this problem though I guess.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 06/25/01 |
> I have read several comments about elevator stops at xx degrees up and
> xx degrees down. I am curious about where the stops are located. I don't
> see anything on the plans about stops.
> I can usually figure out stuff like this even without plans but this
> just stumps me.
> Where does one put stops in the elevator control system?
>
> Regards,
> Bob Seibert
> Macho Grande, Texas
In my humble opinion, it would be best to locate the stops on the stick as
opposed to the control surface. The force that your hand puts on the stick
should be stopped at the stick, not transmitted through the linkages, the
control wires, the pulleys, the control horn, or the control surface.
If stops are required to pass the inspection, I would like to know the
reasoning. My guess (please read: I don't know so I'm guessing) is that
stops located at the control surfaces would provide accurate, possitive
movement control regardless of errors or failures in the control linkage.
Also, aren't these planes considered EXPERIMENTAL? When the examiner finds
something that he doesn't like, just tell him its an experiment. (No
stops?.. it's an experiment in your control system. Markings numbers too
small?.. it's a experiment in stealth. You get the idea.)
Robert Haines
Murphysboro, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | lower motor mount brackets |
I made mine long and welded them together to make a box. Omitted the
screws.
BTW Ed, your hat is on the way, Thanks,
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ed
Grentzer
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lower motor mount brackets
Thanks Chris, Doug and Mark for your replies on the Motor mount bracket
tabs. I see from your different answers that this is one of those areas that
you have to play by ear. Anywho I'm glad I asked rather than just go ahead
and start drilling too many holes. I can see the purpose of the tabs , to
help support the endwise load on the fitting but I dont like all those
holes. So I think I'll leave the tabs long, overlap them, drill one hole
through both and put one #8 screw through both. Thanks again. Ed
G.
>From: Doug413(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lower motor mount brackets
>Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:48:02 EDT
>
>
>In a message dated 6/25/01 4:54:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> > >
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone to the experienced this is gonna sound like a dumb
>question
> > but here it goes; in the plans the lower motor mount brackets that bolt
>to
> > the lower front corner of the fuselage each have two tabs that bend
>toward
> > the centerline of the longeron. The tabs show 3/16" holes in them. I
>can't
> > find any fastening details but I'm assuming
> > (you know what that means) that 10/32 bolts go through those holes into
>the
> > fuselage front upright. If this is true then there's two for the outer
>half
> > and two for the inner half. It just seems to me that 1. thats a lot of
> > holes
> > drilled through a rather highly stressed 3/4" X 1"
> > piece of spruce and 2. there's not a whole lot of room for nuts and
>washers
> > in between the gussets. Sooooo are there supposed to be four through
>bolts
> > that go into those brackets from the front????? Thanks in advance.
> > Ed G.
> >
> >
> >
>
>Ed,
>
>The holes in the front tabs of the lower engine mount plates are for small
>wood screws. I put them in the first airplane carefully, but left them out
>of the next three. I am building a Scout now and it does not have these
>tabs
>in the design. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | lower motor mount brackets |
Thanks Steve After hearing all the different things people have done to
those tabs thats exactly what I've decided to do. Make the tabs long enough
so they meet in the center and weld them together in a jig.
Looking forward to getting my hat. Thanks Ed
>From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'"
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: lower motor mount brackets
>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 08:43:54 -0600
>
>
>I made mine long and welded them together to make a box. Omitted the
>screws.
>
>BTW Ed, your hat is on the way, Thanks,
>
>Steve E.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ed
>Grentzer
>Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:41 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lower motor mount brackets
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks Chris, Doug and Mark for your replies on the Motor mount bracket
>tabs. I see from your different answers that this is one of those areas
>that
>
>you have to play by ear. Anywho I'm glad I asked rather than just go ahead
>and start drilling too many holes. I can see the purpose of the tabs , to
>help support the endwise load on the fitting but I dont like all those
>holes. So I think I'll leave the tabs long, overlap them, drill one hole
>through both and put one #8 screw through both. Thanks again. Ed
>G.
>
> >From: Doug413(at)aol.com
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lower motor mount brackets
> >Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:48:02 EDT
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 6/25/01 4:54:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> >flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com writes:
> >
> >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi everyone to the experienced this is gonna sound like a dumb
> >question
> > > but here it goes; in the plans the lower motor mount brackets that
>bolt
> >to
> > > the lower front corner of the fuselage each have two tabs that bend
> >toward
> > > the centerline of the longeron. The tabs show 3/16" holes in them. I
> >can't
> > > find any fastening details but I'm assuming
> > > (you know what that means) that 10/32 bolts go through those holes
>into
> >the
> > > fuselage front upright. If this is true then there's two for the outer
> >half
> > > and two for the inner half. It just seems to me that 1. thats a lot of
> > > holes
> > > drilled through a rather highly stressed 3/4" X 1"
> > > piece of spruce and 2. there's not a whole lot of room for nuts and
> >washers
> > > in between the gussets. Sooooo are there supposed to be four through
> >bolts
> > > that go into those brackets from the front????? Thanks in advance.
> > > Ed G.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >Ed,
> >
> >The holes in the front tabs of the lower engine mount plates are for
>small
> >wood screws. I put them in the first airplane carefully, but left them
>out
> >of the next three. I am building a Scout now and it does not have these
> >tabs
> >in the design. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | To Fly - Piet edition |
I just received my To Fly magazine today from the SAA and smiled when
I pulled it out of the envelope. Most of the issue features the Piet.
There are articles by Doc Mosher, Bob Whittier, Chad Wille, Ron
Scott, and a reprint of an article by Bernard Pietenpol. In addition,
there are Piet pictures scattered throughout the pages - even William
Wynn's Corvair powered beauty on the Sun n fun section.
Check it out
Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BPANewsletters |
| From: | Chris Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
I got mine just like promissed.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
writes:
>
>
> About six months ago John Fay and I sent our complete collections of
> BPAN> ewsletters to a guy named Mike Bell in Gaston, NC. He had promised
> that h> e would make copies of them available to anyone who would send him a
> chec> k.
>
> After repeated E-mail and phone contacts, I have yet to get my
> originals
> back. I was wondering if anyone who sent him money for the copies
> has rec> eived them or have we all been taken to the cleaners.
>
> We lament the lack of participation and volunteers in our society
> but it
> doesn't take too many of these experiences to sour even nice guys
> (like m> e!).
>
> Hopefully he's just R-E-A-L slow and I'll get my stuff back soon. I
> hope
> those of you who sent him money got your newsletters.
>
> Getting ready to cover my wings!!!
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BPANewsletters |
I received mine several weeks ago too.
I enjoy reading past issues and have picked
up several great ideas.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas, Texas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Tracy" <catdesigns(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BPANewsletters
>
> I got mine just like promissed.
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
> writes:
> >
> >
> > About six months ago John Fay and I sent our complete collections of
> > BPAN> > ewsletters to a guy named Mike Bell in Gaston, NC. He had promised
> > that h> > e would make copies of them available to anyone who would send him
a
> > chec> > k.
> >
> > After repeated E-mail and phone contacts, I have yet to get my
> > originals
> > back. I was wondering if anyone who sent him money for the copies
> > has rec> > eived them or have we all been taken to the cleaners.
> >
> > We lament the lack of participation and volunteers in our society
> > but it
> > doesn't take too many of these experiences to sour even nice guys
> > (like m> > e!).
> >
> > Hopefully he's just R-E-A-L slow and I'll get my stuff back soon. I
> > hope
> > those of you who sent him money got your newsletters.
> >
> > Getting ready to cover my wings!!!
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <J-M-Duprey(at)erols.com> |
Hi All I have set up a Pietenpol message board. Similar to this list but
it won't fill up you in box, and you can post photos. I hope it helps
everyone out.
http://wwwboard.net/bbs1/Duprey/wwwboard.sht
John Duprey
Piet in Progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/01 |
Wow, are Cubs THAT slow???
Ted Brousseau
Naples, FL
Just trying to avoid bird strikes from the rear...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Lawler" <clawler(at)ptd.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/01
>You know these Piets are considerably faster than a cub.
>
> Craig
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
I need some help. We were to start the A 65 today. After lining up mags and
all we found one bad P lead. I checked with all the catalogs I possess and no
one seems to show them. After exhausting myself at all the airport bum hang
outs it appears there are no P leads in NW La.
It is for a Bendix mag Type S4RN-20. If anyone has a servicable one they
could part with or know of a source I sure would appreciate hearing from you.
Got good southern confederate money waiting for the first e mailer or caller.
318 868 3385.
Corky in La begging for help.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
Corky,
If I remember right, you can take an old spark plug elbow from an old
shielded ignition harness that has the same size nut as the threads on the
mag where the p lead goes in. You replace the ignition wire with either
some 16 gauge wire (or so) or if you want to shield it, which is not
necessary even if you are to use a handheld, you can use some shielded 16
gauge wire. Of course, the other end of the wire goes to your mag switch
in the cockpit. The switch must then be grounded back to the engine. Make
sure you use a wire for this ground to not trust luck. Takes a little
soldering.
The "cigarette" inside the elbow fits right into the mag and engages the
little leaf spring that allows you to ground the points. If the cigarett
is too short the leaf spring will still ground the points to the mag case
and your mag will not work.
Let me know if this helps. I can call you tomarrow.
I am sure an old harness is lying around Lucien Field or did Mr. Harvey
throw a lot of stuff out after the tornado?
He had more airplane stuff than anyone I know.
How si the inconsiderate family member doing with the wedding?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: lower motor mount brackets |
Ed;
There's an old aviation saying...."the dumbest question is the one not
asked".....
I'd rather taste shoe leather than a wood instrument panel at impact.......
Chris House
Smilin 'cause the Waco's airworthy again
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Grentzer <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
>Anywho I'm glad I asked rather than just go ahead
> and start drilling too many holes
________________________________________________________________________________
Corky,
P-leads are just made from 18 or 16 gauge wire and ground out the
primary circuit of the magneto to kill it. If it's the ends that fasten
to the magneto that you're needing, I believe an old spark plug ingition
end will work. Any aviation supply house that carries Bendix magneto
parts should be able to get the ends without any problem. I have a few
ends for 200 series magnetos still in their original packages laying
around the house somewhere, but these are a different size than the 20
series you have.
If you still have problem with this, call United Aero in San Antonio and
talk to Clint or Dan; tell them I refered them to you. I've dealt with
them for years and they will bend over backwards to help. Their number
is (800) 451-7282.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Guys---off the subject somewhat, but does anyone know of some
handheld radios that also have GPS in them ? I've found one but
looking for all the options before I (might) purchase one.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS/Handheld |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: GPS/Handheld
>
> Guys---off the subject somewhat, but does anyone know of some
> handheld radios that also have GPS in them ? I've found one but
> looking for all the options before I (might) purchase one.
>
> Mike C.
>
> Mike,
I just finished reading about one, a GPS/COM 190 reviewed in the AvShop web
address at http://www.avshop.com Expensive! Worth dreaming about however!
John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS/Handheld |
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: GPS/Handheld
Guys---off the subject somewhat, but does anyone know of some
handheld radios that also have GPS in them ? I've found one but
looking for all the options before I (might) purchase one.
Mike C.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- --
GPSCOM 190 Handheld.
About $1000 without accessories
Mike B Piet M687MB (Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS/Handheld |
Thanks John. Turns out there are two out there that I found on
the same site.....AvWeb. Looks like they advise getting separate
units for the best overall performance.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS/Handheld |
Hey Mike,
That's what I did - I got two. I have a Delcom for my handheld
transceiver, and I have a Garmin GPS90 for GPS. I rely on my GPS90 a lot
when I'm flying my Cardinal, my Delcom was comm backup for IFR. I think you
could get a GPS92 and a Delcom or comparable handheld for probably $800-850.
Either way, you can't go wrong!
Have fun!!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS/Handheld |
Mike,
Looking around, I don't see the Delcom handheld at Gulf Coast anymore,
maybe they're out of production. But I think Yaesu and Icom both make fairly
inexpensive Comm only handhelds.
Good Luck!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS/Handheld |
Gary Meadows wrote:
>
>
> Hey Mike,
>
> That's what I did - I got two. I have a Delcom for my handheld
> transceiver, and I have a Garmin GPS90 for GPS. I rely on my GPS90 a lot
Hi Mike,
I've got a Delcom also and find it works fine. My GPS is slightly more
primitive - It's a Magellan GPS 300 made for hikers. It costs about
$100 at K-Mart and works fine for aviation purposes, although it doesn't
have any fancy databases of airports and frequencies and such. It does
give position, course, groundspeed and distance to the next waypoint. I
mount it to the windshield of my Cessna 140 with a mount made to hold a
cellphone and it works great.
Jack Phillips,
Still wasting scrap pine in North Carolina, trying to come up with the
right angles for the landing gear struts
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Mike C.
I think you said that you did your plane in Poly Fiber. If so , what is
the color blue? I really like it.
It's hard for my pea-brain to see a 1/4x1/2 color blip on the PolyFiber
chart and picture it on a plane , let alone try to figure what lighter
colors go with it.
Don't want to be flying around in a clown plane.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Mike, I use one of those $100 Magellans and it works great. I just look up
the lats and lons of the destination and waypoints and it gets me there
everytime. It may not be for aviation but it gives me ground speed, eta,
distance to, and it's a backup compass.
I plan to pick up a handheld transceiver just to let the locals know I'm
coming and going.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: GPS/Handheld
Guys---off the subject somewhat, but does anyone know of some
handheld radios that also have GPS in them ? I've found one but
looking for all the options before I (might) purchase one.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GPS/Handheld |
Carl, so my Garmin GPS III+ should work fine ?
<< Mike, I use one of those $100 Magellans and it works great. I just look up
the lats and lons of the destination and waypoints and it gets me there
everytime. It may not be for aviation but it gives me ground speed, eta,
distance to, and it's a backup compass.
I plan to pick up a handheld transceiver just to let the locals know I'm
coming and going.
Carl >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS/Handheld |
>
>Gary Meadows wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hey Mike,
>>
>> That's what I did - I got two. I have a Delcom for my handheld
>> transceiver, and I have a Garmin GPS90 for GPS. I rely on my GPS90 a lot
>
>Hi Mike,
>
>I've got a Delcom also and find it works fine. My GPS is slightly more
>primitive - It's a Magellan GPS 300 made for hikers.
I am about the same. I have a JHP-500 that I clip on the luggage
flap of the TCart and hook up to the Nav antenna. Works better than
the comm antenna! I didn't go for the JHP-520 with VOR because I use
a Magellan 315A GPS. It is a hiking 315 with an airport database. Get
the hiking version and put in your own waypoints. You can get software
to let you do a mass download from your pc. My GPS mount is real hi-tech.
A strip of velcro on the dash and its mate on the GPS.
Dave
N36078
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: GPS/Handheld |
Mike,
I highly recommend the Garmin 195 GPS. My handheld radio will still transmit
but no longer receives. It will probably cost more to repair than I can get
a new one for so I suppose that will be on the OSH shopping list.
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS/Handheld |
Jack,
Man, are those wooden legs the toughest thing ever? I've been messing with
my gear legs also, and have taken a building break for awhile! Those angles
are a bear to get right. Oh well, I guess nothing worthwhile is ever
easy....
Gary Meadows
Spring Tx
(cutting up pine boards in funny angles for scrap....)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
I think any GPS that you can put latitude and longitude in should work. When
I first got mine, I got out my airport directory and started looking up the
fields I thought should be in it. Then I used my cirrus flight planner and
put in some good waypoints.
Funny how you'll head to one of these" I can't find this place to save my
butt" fields and the GPS says it's right below and you look down and son of
a gun, there it is. Technology, gotta love it.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Dmott9(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GPS/Handheld
Carl, so my Garmin GPS III+ should work fine ?
<< Mike, I use one of those $100 Magellans and it works great. I just look
up
the lats and lons of the destination and waypoints and it gets me there
everytime. It may not be for aviation but it gives me ground speed, eta,
distance to, and it's a backup compass.
I plan to pick up a handheld transceiver just to let the locals know I'm
coming and going.
Carl >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS/Handheld |
Mike,
I agree also. First, you probably can't find just the "right" GPS and the
"right" VHF already built together, so you start out with a comprimise.
Second, if one goes bad or becomes obsolete you don't just discard it
because you have so much tied up in the combo. And believe me, the GPS
features change enough that you will be wanting to upgrade sooner than you
might now think. Finally, if the batteries die you loose both GPS and VHF.
I put up with the extra clutter to keep the flexibility.
Ted Brousseau
Soggy Naples, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GPS/Handheld
>
> Thanks John. Turns out there are two out there that I found on
> the same site.....AvWeb. Looks like they advise getting separate
> units for the best overall performance.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Dave,
How do you like the JHP radio?
Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Michelle Brant" <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
I am a new guy here and have had the pleasure of meeting with Greg
Cardinal and Dale Johnson and checking out their Piet project. I have
now purchased the plans, and layed out my fuselage on my workbench. I
am looking for help in finding the best prices on Spruce. Aircraft
Spruce and Wicks are about the same and they seam kinda high. Is there
any other place to get this stuff. I read somewhere that Mckormick
lumber in Madison Wisconsin has stock of it on hand. I've emailed them
for a quote but got no response. Any help would be greatly appreciated
as I am itching to get going on the project.
Tom Brant, MPLS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
Tom,
make sure you talk to Wayne Meier of EAA Chapter 25 about plywood and
spruce before you order anything. He lives on the Burnsville/Eagan line
just south of Dale's near Cliff Road and Cedar Avenue. Phone is 952 882
9035.
He deals in these woods for boats but he is an airplane guy and knows what
works for a Piet.
I hope Greg told you about Wayne. Wayne is also in Dale's glider club.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS/Handheld |
Hey all;
Just wanted to add my pennies worth. I also have the JPH-520. Never really
tried the nav function, but the com worked ok with just the little antenna.
I flew my Waco from Albany, NY to Phoenix, AZ with just the JPH for the com
as there were no radios or nav's installed. I've since added an external
antenna but have not tried it out yet. Before I left, I bought the Anywhere
map software and gps system from Anywheremap.com and a Casio E-125 PDA. I
gotta say, it is the greatest thing since sliced bread, as we found that the
compass was off by about 30 degrees and the altimeter by about 300 feet (bad
when crossing the Continental Divide at 10,000 feet on a 98 degree day). Not
only that, but each night we looked at the WAC's, Sectionals and weather
forecasts and planned our flight, then very quickly entered the flight plan
into the anywhere map. They have a great system and a really good discussion
board. May not be the right thing for a Piet, but I'll tell ya, it'll be
along when I go flying any type of cross country outside of AZ. Here, you
can see from one end of the state to the other at 7000 feet, and then
there's always that big ditch with a real river running through it up north
to take a bearing from.
Chris House
Smilin' at the thought of looking down, lookin' at the sectional, THEN
lookin' at the PDA, then lookin' down and saying to my brother "Yep, that's
the Mississippi fer sure!" then goin' "that was stupid". Too long in the
desert sun, for sure.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> |
Tom:
I bought my spruce from Jean Peters in Canada. I've heard, I believe on this
board, that he has since retired, which is unfortunate, because he was
absolutely wonderful to work with. He called me the day he received my check
and eight days later, I got all of my spruce, cut to approximate length,
t-stock milled, packaged, and all pieces wrapped and labeled per the planes,
air freighted to Phoenix for 1649.00 total. And the wood is absolutely
beautiful. He only does the three piece wing though, and the fuselage
longerons are cut for the lengthened design. I think someone else was taking
over his company. Do not trust Aircraft Spruce for their Piet wood kit.
Although I buy lots of stuff from them and they are generally good for
everything, they are WAY out in left field on the Piet wood stuff. I went
round after round with them trying to get everything straight on the kit and
could not. I did buy all of my plywood from them, though and they have been
really good for that. I think they are just working from screwed up
measurements. If you buy your wood from them, be VERY clear on your specs.
Chris House
Still Smilin'
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom & Michelle Brant <tmbrant(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
>
> I am a new guy here and have had the pleasure of meeting with Greg
> Cardinal and Dale Johnson and checking out their Piet project. I have
> now purchased the plans, and layed out my fuselage on my workbench. I
> am looking for help in finding the best prices on Spruce. Aircraft
> Spruce and Wicks are about the same and they seam kinda high. Is there
> any other place to get this stuff. I read somewhere that Mckormick
> lumber in Madison Wisconsin has stock of it on hand. I've emailed them
> for a quote but got no response. Any help would be greatly appreciated
> as I am itching to get going on the project.
>
> Tom Brant, MPLS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 06/28/01 |
Aircraft Spruce was kind enough to send me a cut list for a steel kit on a
Pober Super Ace and they were off and in their favor. The plans call for a
couple of inches of tube here and there that you would normally use a
cut-off of what ever you had in your shop. AS would sell you a foot of that
odd tube. My suggestion of purchasing material kits would be to get the
list only, work through the list to insure that it's right (and fair) and
then purchase the material.
Robert Haines
Murphysboro, Illinois
>
> Do not trust Aircraft Spruce for their Piet wood kit.
> Although I buy lots of stuff from them and they are generally good for
> everything, they are WAY out in left field on the Piet wood stuff. I went
> round after round with them trying to get everything straight on the kit
and
> could not.
>
> Chris House
> Still Smilin'
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
>
>
>Mike C.
> I think you said that you did your plane in Poly Fiber. If so , what is
>the color blue? I really like it.
Hello Walt----I used Randolph dope products for everything on my plane
Polyfiber carries the same color I used and it's called Insignia Blue. The
white is called Cessna Vestal white. The guys at the hangar enjoyed that one.
The trim and decal are all outdoor vinyl (and the N-numbers too) that Dennis
Demeter did for me in Michigan.
> It's hard for my pea-brain to see a 1/4x1/2 color blip on the PolyFiber
>chart and picture it on a plane , let alone try to figure what lighter
>colors go with it.
>Don't want to be flying around in a clown plane.
>walt
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
Youngblood lumber in mpls used to have some spruce
that you could pick thru, their number is 612-789-3521
the area code might have changed. I bought mine from
McCormick, you can just call them at 608-244-4741 and
order what you need and have a truck pick it up, or if
you go down to brodhead, you can stop there and pick
it up. I had no problems with the wood or the guys
down there. I'm in New Richmond Wi, if you are ever in
the area stop in and look at mine. Its at my business
so during the day would be good. I have it in the back
so when business gets slow I just go back and work on
it.
Del
--- Tom & Michelle Brant wrote:
> Michelle Brant"
>
> I am a new guy here and have had the pleasure of
> meeting with Greg
> Cardinal and Dale Johnson and checking out their
> Piet project. I have
> now purchased the plans, and layed out my fuselage
> on my workbench. I
> am looking for help in finding the best prices on
> Spruce. Aircraft
> Spruce and Wicks are about the same and they seam
> kinda high. Is there
> any other place to get this stuff. I read somewhere
> that Mckormick
> lumber in Madison Wisconsin has stock of it on hand.
> I've emailed them
> for a quote but got no response. Any help would be
> greatly appreciated
> as I am itching to get going on the project.
>
> Tom Brant, MPLS
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Group---thanks for the many good response on my gps/handheld
question. I'm on a steep learning curve with this stuff as I've never
used anything but a sectional, compass, and a few stray water
tower names to find my way from here to there and back.
Mike C.
PS--Oh yes, I did have to use a VOR on my private checkride but
avoided it after that :)))
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
In the wake of all the correspondence here on the Pietenpol net about
FAA's DAR program, our own Cy Galley has some good information in the July
issue of EAA's Experimenter magazine. Cy is the guy who has volunteered to
be EAA's "Safety Programs News" editor. In this Experimenter article
("Changes coming to the DAR program?") he points out that EAA polled Tech
Counselors to see who might want to become "homebuilt DARs." This DAR
question did not suddenly rear its ugly head last week, but has been an
ongoing concern of EAA for several years. And, yes, there is clearly a
bias within FAA to appoint retired FAA people (regardless of their
expertise or lack of it in homebuilt aircraft). The instructions that
accompany the application clearly state this, and it is something that
should have the spotlight on it. "Outsiders" are, by the instructions,
discouraged from even applying.
You will note that Cy's article's title ends with a question mark. As his
article points out, maybe the answer is to have the FAA have a niche group
of "volunteer DARs for homebuilts" and thus make an end run around the
FAA's self-appointed old boy network. Anyhow, Cy and Earl Lawrence and
others at EAA really are working on a solution of some kind.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: More DAR stuff |
| From: | KGardner(at)odu.edu |
06/29/2001 04:07:18 PM
Doc,
Thanks for passing that information along. I will certainly read the
article when I get my copy of Experimenter. Sounds as if a solution that
makes sense for home builders might be possible.
Kip Gardner (who will be spending next week finishing up the never-ending
house painting job)
Laboratory Manager
Old Dominion University
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences, Rm. 441
4600 Elkhorn Ave.
Norfolk, VA 23529
Ph: 757-683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Honor Veterans - Stop War"
(On the car of a friend who is a DFC-decorated WWII veteran)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: More DAR stuff |
Thanks Doc for this DAR input, In so much as I made an end run on this
situation I still didn't like the scent of the situation. This local DAR was
nice enough but had no knowledge of a Piet nor had ever heard of one.
Corky in La preparing to go to a wedding in Texas and they even want me to
wear a Texedo.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
I've been getting sport aviation mag for years and everytime I hear mention
of experimenter I keep thinking I should switch to that.
I imagine experimenter would be the magazine of choice for homebuilders.
Carl, preparing to go my own wedding tomorrow and they'll have to take me in
my blue suit.
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: More DAR stuff
Thanks Doc for this DAR input, In so much as I made an end run on this
situation I still didn't like the scent of the situation. This local DAR was
nice enough but had no knowledge of a Piet nor had ever heard of one.
Corky in La preparing to go to a wedding in Texas and they even want me to
wear a Texedo.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Experimenter / Sport Aviation |
Carl,
I get both, and find Experimenter equally disappointing...nothing
against the ultra-light folks...the Experimenter is mostly dedicated to
them and the editorial guys will only discuss products they are
selling...don't seem to even know about products their advertisers are
paying space for in their own issue.
We do need a publication for the plans built folks.
Just a personal opinion,
Cheers,
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Experimenter / Sport Aviation |
Guess what?
You write an article about plans building and I'll see that it is published
giving you all the credit. Pictures and drawings that go with the article
helps make a good article great.
You can send it to me via e-mail at either address. If you scan pictures,
try to make it 300 dpi. You can compress it a little as a JPG (7 out of 10
scale).
If you would like to talk over an idea for an article, e-mail me your phone
number with a good time to call and I will call.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Experimenter / Sport Aviation
Carl,
I get both, and find Experimenter equally disappointing...nothing
against the ultra-light folks...the Experimenter is mostly dedicated to
them and the editorial guys will only discuss products they are
selling...don't seem to even know about products their advertisers are
paying space for in their own issue.
We do need a publication for the plans built folks.
Just a personal opinion,
Cheers,
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 6/28/01 9:34:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
tmbrant(at)uswest.net writes:
> I am a new guy here and have had the pleasure of meeting with Greg
> Cardinal and Dale Johnson and checking out their Piet project. I have
> now purchased the plans, and layed out my fuselage on my workbench. I
> am looking for help in finding the best prices on Spruce. Aircraft
> Spruce and Wicks are about the same and they seam kinda high. Is there
> any other place to get this stuff. I read somewhere that Mckormick
> lumber in Madison Wisconsin has stock of it on hand. I've emailed them
> for a quote but got no response. Any help would be greatly appreciated
> as I am itching to get going on the project.
>
> Tom Brant, MPLS
>
>
>
Tom,
I buy nearly all my spruce or fir from Home Depot by hand selecting 2X4's
every time I visit. I can always find a clear board in the stack or one that
has enough clear wood in it for a longeron or two leaving the shorter pieces
for struts and braces. I then scarf my longerons together 15 to 1. I ''ve
done five airplanes this way. They also have ash. Also, there is some very
good 1/8" and 1/4" plywood available from another wood store here which also
works very well. Caution on the plywood however, I have a seen in the past
other brands of this size plywood which delaminates in water, but the
material I am using now does not come apart. I don't buy any actual graded
aicraft wood so my airplanes don't cost very much wood wise. Doug Bryant
Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
Would like some clarification on the AS&S
Would it help to go there in person with plans in hand?
What do you mean "left field on the Piet stuff" ?
<< Do not trust Aircraft Spruce for their Piet wood kit.
Although I buy lots of stuff from them and they are generally good for
everything, they are WAY out in left field on the Piet wood stuff. I went
round after round with them trying to get everything straight on the kit and
could not. I did buy all of my plywood from them, though and they have been
really good for that. I think they are just working from screwed up
measurements. If you buy your wood from them, be VERY clear on your specs.
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Michelle Brant" <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
What kind of prices do you get from Mckormic? Are they priced better than
Aircraft Spruce?
I might be in New Richmond in a few weeks inspecting equipment for my
company. We use a local fabricator there, "Fusion Metals". I'll look you
up if I end up going out there.
Tom B.
----- Original Message -----
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
>
> Youngblood lumber in mpls used to have some spruce
> that you could pick thru, their number is 612-789-3521
> the area code might have changed. I bought mine from
> McCormick, you can just call them at 608-244-4741 and
> order what you need and have a truck pick it up, or if
> you go down to brodhead, you can stop there and pick
> it up. I had no problems with the wood or the guys
> down there. I'm in New Richmond Wi, if you are ever in
> the area stop in and look at mine. Its at my business
> so during the day would be good. I have it in the back
> so when business gets slow I just go back and work on
> it.
> Del
> --- Tom & Michelle Brant wrote:
> > Michelle Brant"
> >
> > I am a new guy here and have had the pleasure of
> > meeting with Greg
> > Cardinal and Dale Johnson and checking out their
> > Piet project. I have
> > now purchased the plans, and layed out my fuselage
> > on my workbench. I
> > am looking for help in finding the best prices on
> > Spruce. Aircraft
> > Spruce and Wicks are about the same and they seam
> > kinda high. Is there
> > any other place to get this stuff. I read somewhere
> > that Mckormick
> > lumber in Madison Wisconsin has stock of it on hand.
> > I've emailed them
> > for a quote but got no response. Any help would be
> > greatly appreciated
> > as I am itching to get going on the project.
> >
> > Tom Brant, MPLS
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Michelle Brant" <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
Mike,
I'm just the opposite... I had trouble with getting my directions mixed up
while flying so I bought a GPS to "help" me navigate more clearly... Now, I
find it difficult to go anywhere without it. If you get one, don't get too
dependant on it. The skills you've learned and developed with practice over
time are much more valuable than a $500 piece of electronics that when you
need it, the batteries are dead... Don't get me wrong, I love my GPS
(Garmin GPS 195)! I think I'm just too dependant on it.
Tom Brant, MLPS
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: thanks
>
> Group---thanks for the many good response on my gps/handheld
> question. I'm on a steep learning curve with this stuff as I've never
> used anything but a sectional, compass, and a few stray water
> tower names to find my way from here to there and back.
>
> Mike C.
>
> PS--Oh yes, I did have to use a VOR on my private checkride but
> avoided it after that :)))
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More DAR stuff |
Hey All;
Just an aside to the much discussed DAR issue. Two things have to change to
make it fair and to make it work....the first is eliminating the 'Good Ol'
Boy' issues within the FAA and the other, and in my humble opinion more
urgent, is Tort Reform. I'm to the point where I'm scared to death of
signing annuals off for people, and in fact, will not do an annual for
anyone that I don't know and trust for fear of lawsuit. The Tort laws killed
general aviation in the 80's (that would be 1980's, Corky), and it's the
reason for a $250,000 Cessna 172 that when mass produced would really only
cost $60,000 if EVERY supplier did not have to carry the burden of massive
liability insurance which drives up the costs. Sorry, I hate it when I stand
on that soap box but it's a close subject for me.
And Corky, I'm sure the United States of Texas will love ya in a
texedo..............
Chris House
Smilin' 'cause I'm a Texan by birth, but please don't hold it agin' me.....
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: More DAR stuff
>
> In the wake of all the correspondence here on the Pietenpol net about
> FAA's DAR program, our own Cy Galley has some good information in the July
> issue of EAA's Experimenter magazine. Cy is the guy who has volunteered
to
> be EAA's "Safety Programs News" editor. In this Experimenter article
> ("Changes coming to the DAR program?") he points out that EAA polled Tech
> Counselors to see who might want to become "homebuilt DARs." This DAR
> question did not suddenly rear its ugly head last week, but has been an
> ongoing concern of EAA for several years. And, yes, there is clearly a
> bias within FAA to appoint retired FAA people (regardless of their
> expertise or lack of it in homebuilt aircraft). The instructions that
> accompany the application clearly state this, and it is something that
> should have the spotlight on it. "Outsiders" are, by the instructions,
> discouraged from even applying.
>
> You will note that Cy's article's title ends with a question mark. As his
> article points out, maybe the answer is to have the FAA have a niche group
> of "volunteer DARs for homebuilts" and thus make an end run around the
> FAA's self-appointed old boy network. Anyhow, Cy and Earl Lawrence and
> others at EAA really are working on a solution of some kind.
>
> Doc Mosher
> Oshkosh USA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> |
They use a VERY old materials list. Trying to match up their list with what
I had was exasperating. I spent two hours on the phone with them trying to
get my list (lengthened fuselage, etc.) to match with theirs and, although
they were very helpful, it turns out, if you buy from them, anything that is
different from their list, they charge you to the next foot. I will say, I
have ordered wood from them for my gear and my plywood, and it is very good
quality. I was also lucky enough to not be on as constrained a budget as
some. It was just a giant pain in the kiester trying to match materials
lists. For me, it was just easier and less time consuming to order from Jean
and know that he knew, exactly what I needed. No dig on AS&S, I like 'em and
they have always treated me well. The Piet is just, well, not a big seller
for them, I guess.
Chris House
Smilin, for I'm headed to San Diego tomorrow, where it's gotta be cooler
than the 113 degrees today in Phoenix....
----- Original Message -----
From: <Dmott9(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
>
> Would like some clarification on the AS&S
> Would it help to go there in person with plans in hand?
> What do you mean "left field on the Piet stuff" ?
>
> << Do not trust Aircraft Spruce for their Piet wood kit.
> Although I buy lots of stuff from them and they are generally good for
> everything, they are WAY out in left field on the Piet wood stuff. I went
> round after round with them trying to get everything straight on the kit
and
> could not. I did buy all of my plywood from them, though and they have
been
> really good for that. I think they are just working from screwed up
> measurements. If you buy your wood from them, be VERY clear on your
specs.
> >>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More DAR stuff |
Chris,
Hey watchit! Don't go renouncing your Texcitizenship it must be something
special, everyone seems to want to move in on us! I'll tell you a secret -
Corky's Texas-born too!!! He just got out as quick as he could! I think
maybe it was the fact that he liked gumbo better than chili! I was born on
the East Coast - that would be the west bank of the Sabine river, so I
missed being a Louisianian by one flood-width!
Gary Meadows
In almost washed-away Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
I had thought I read that the AS&S spruce list was actually for a GN-1 and
that those dimensions are different from a Piet. Not having built a GN-1 I
can't say for sure, but I seem to remember the AS&S list mentioning the GN-1
Aircamper or somesuch.
Chris - Stay on the soapbox, tort reform would help, as well as lawyer
limits. Lets have say, 1 lawyer for every 100,000 citizens. I'm like you, I
do a limited number of 100 hour inspections for folks who have planes on
leaseback, but I have to know and trust them. I gave up A&P work full-time
cause the money ain't there, but the legal exposure sure is. I'm afraid the
time is approaching where we'll only be able to look fondly at our birds,
and watch as the only thing left in the air are the 500 passenger cattle
cars.
The only folks who have a chance are us hard-headed do-it-yourselfers who
insist on building their own! That is, IF we can get them to a DAR to get
the paperwork done. The spam can owners won't have anyone left to work on
theirs. I also own a spam-can, I'm glad I can do my own work.
Wow, I just got depressed.....
Gary Meadows
Maybe it's the rain
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Experimenter / Sport Aviation |
Dear Mr. Galley,
I used to write articles for the magazine of "the cast bullet association."
( gun and shooting articles) These were mostly hand written on yellow
paper...
They were always printed in the magazine.
I have thought many times about writing some articles about homebuilding,
then submitting to magazines. However, my problen is/was; I thought that
articles had to be with pictures, on slides, taken with an SLR camera, and
some sort of special film.
Are you saying that one can type his article on to a disk, with didigital
picts., or scanned prints ? Then submit by e-mail ?
Does one get paid for this ?
Bob
>From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Experimenter / Sport Aviation
>Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:04:13 -0500
>
>
>Guess what?
>
>You write an article about plans building and I'll see that it is published
>giving you all the credit. Pictures and drawings that go with the article
>helps make a good article great.
>
>You can send it to me via e-mail at either address. If you scan pictures,
>try to make it 300 dpi. You can compress it a little as a JPG (7 out of 10
>scale).
>
>If you would like to talk over an idea for an article, e-mail me your phone
>number with a good time to call and I will call.
>
>Cy Galley
>Editor, EAA Safety Programs
>cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
>To:
>Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 5:09 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Experimenter / Sport Aviation
>
>
>
>
>Carl,
> I get both, and find Experimenter equally disappointing...nothing
>against the ultra-light folks...the Experimenter is mostly dedicated to
>them and the editorial guys will only discuss products they are
>selling...don't seem to even know about products their advertisers are
>paying space for in their own issue.
> We do need a publication for the plans built folks.
> Just a personal opinion,
>Cheers,
>Warren
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I was very satisfied with my spruce order from AS&S ( about two years ago)
First they give you a quote on price and a list of dimensions and lengths.
It's up to you if it's right . Mine was right on the money (I'm covering
now)
Few months ago I scanned the wood lists and reciepts, and emailed them to
whoever wanted them. I'll be glad to fwd them to you if you haven't seen
them.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: <Dmott9(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
>
> Would like some clarification on the AS&S
> Would it help to go there in person with plans in hand?
> What do you mean "left field on the Piet stuff" ?
>
> << Do not trust Aircraft Spruce for their Piet wood kit.
> Although I buy lots of stuff from them and they are generally good for
> everything, they are WAY out in left field on the Piet wood stuff. I went
> round after round with them trying to get everything straight on the kit
and
> could not. I did buy all of my plywood from them, though and they have
been
> really good for that. I think they are just working from screwed up
> measurements. If you buy your wood from them, be VERY clear on your
specs.
> >>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More DAR stuff |
Yeah, I'm actually from up "Nawth" (Amarillo). Missed being an Okie from OK
by just a few miles. Lived all over, El Paso, San Antone, Eagle Pass, etc.
And I sure do miss good ol' Texas chili. 'Course I love gumbo, too. And I
knew there was something special about Corky.....
Chris House
Smilin' and missing Texas
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: More DAR stuff
>
> Chris,
>
> Hey watchit! Don't go renouncing your Texcitizenship it must be
something
> special, everyone seems to want to move in on us! I'll tell you a secret -
> Corky's Texas-born too!!! He just got out as quick as he could! I think
> maybe it was the fact that he liked gumbo better than chili! I was born on
> the East Coast - that would be the west bank of the Sabine river, so I
> missed being a Louisianian by one flood-width!
>
> Gary Meadows
> In almost washed-away Spring, TX
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> |
You know, I think Gary's right....AS&S kit is for the GN-1, which I was
about to build before I saw Mike Cuy's airplane. Like I said, I think AS&S
is great. I just think you have to be VERY explicit with your order.
Chris House
Smilin' thinking about Mikes airplane
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
>
> I had thought I read that the AS&S spruce list was actually for a GN-1 and
> that those dimensions are different from a Piet. Not having built a GN-1 I
> can't say for sure, but I seem to remember the AS&S list mentioning the
GN-1
> Aircamper or somesuch.
>
> Chris - Stay on the soapbox, tort reform would help, as well as lawyer
> limits. Lets have say, 1 lawyer for every 100,000 citizens. I'm like you,
I
> do a limited number of 100 hour inspections for folks who have planes on
> leaseback, but I have to know and trust them. I gave up A&P work full-time
> cause the money ain't there, but the legal exposure sure is. I'm afraid
the
> time is approaching where we'll only be able to look fondly at our birds,
> and watch as the only thing left in the air are the 500 passenger cattle
> cars.
>
> The only folks who have a chance are us hard-headed do-it-yourselfers who
> insist on building their own! That is, IF we can get them to a DAR to get
> the paperwork done. The spam can owners won't have anyone left to work on
> theirs. I also own a spam-can, I'm glad I can do my own work.
>
> Wow, I just got depressed.....
> Gary Meadows
> Maybe it's the rain
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
My spruce kit from AS for a GN-1 was shipped in 3/98 for $823.00, not
including plywood. Frt. was $170.12.
DickG.
Ft. Myers, FL.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
>
> I had thought I read that the AS&S spruce list was actually for a GN-1 and
> that those dimensions are different from a Piet. Not having built a GN-1 I
> can't say for sure, but I seem to remember the AS&S list mentioning the
GN-1
> Aircamper or somesuch.
>
> Chris - Stay on the soapbox, tort reform would help, as well as lawyer
> limits. Lets have say, 1 lawyer for every 100,000 citizens. I'm like you,
I
> do a limited number of 100 hour inspections for folks who have planes on
> leaseback, but I have to know and trust them. I gave up A&P work full-time
> cause the money ain't there, but the legal exposure sure is. I'm afraid
the
> time is approaching where we'll only be able to look fondly at our birds,
> and watch as the only thing left in the air are the 500 passenger cattle
> cars.
>
> The only folks who have a chance are us hard-headed do-it-yourselfers who
> insist on building their own! That is, IF we can get them to a DAR to get
> the paperwork done. The spam can owners won't have anyone left to work on
> theirs. I also own a spam-can, I'm glad I can do my own work.
>
> Wow, I just got depressed.....
> Gary Meadows
> Maybe it's the rain
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Experimenter / Sport Aviation |
oil can wrote:
> I have thought many times about writing some articles about homebuilding,
> then submitting to magazines. However, my problen is/was; I thought that
> articles had to be with pictures, on slides, taken with an SLR camera, and
> some sort of special film.
>
> Are you saying that one can type his article on to a disk, with didigital
> picts., or scanned prints ? Then submit by e-mail ?
>
> Does one get paid for this ?
Hi Bob,
I submitted an article for Sport Aviation that was published in the
March issue, entitled "The Art of Scrounging in the Internet Age". They
published it under "Finding what you need". I submitted it as a Word
document via e-mail, with no pictures at all. No, they don't pay
anything for unsolicited articles, but after a couple of good articles,
they might start soliciting them.
Jack Phillips
Still trying to figure out the straight axle landing gear in NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Book sale order is in! |
To all those who have participated in the book sale:
the order is in. Now we will sit and wait. Can you imagine 25 sets of the
Bingelis books!!
should have some really nice Pietenpols flying in a couple of years.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
Steve E. - received the hats and thanks! Hope you have enough for
all those who still want to order. Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lou Larsen" <pietlars(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS/Handheld |
Gary:
I missed seeing you guys in Spring a few weeks ago because I Left my bag of
Piet stuff at home and couldn't make a connection with Tim as planned. Did
get in on the fun with Allison though, had to come home to Florida via I-20.
Noticed that you and some other folks are having some problems with the the
gear legs, etc. I can only speak to working on the wood strut "stiff leg"
gear but I didn't have that much trouble with it. I did make a trial set up
out of pine first to get things right. I think that the thing that helped
the most was figuring the lengths and angles required was using some
simple trigonometry. Just the simple functions, particulatly the tangent.
I have a cheapo scientific calculator that has the trig functions and it was
a big help. I was able to get the first cuts within an eighth or quarter
of an inch and within a couple of degrees. The final set , made out of ash
was real close to the plans dimensions.
Hope to get out to Spring again in a few months and hopefully see you ,
Joe and Tim.
Will be going to Brodhead again this year.
Lou
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GPS/Handheld
>
> Jack,
>
> Man, are those wooden legs the toughest thing ever? I've been messing
with
> my gear legs also, and have taken a building break for awhile! Those
angles
> are a bear to get right. Oh well, I guess nothing worthwhile is ever
> easy....
>
> Gary Meadows
> Spring Tx
> (cutting up pine boards in funny angles for scrap....)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Rental rooms at Oshkosh and Brodhead |
A lady down the street from me has some rooms available for AirVenture. She
would like to rent out the house for the full week, but will
negotiate. There are two bedrooms on the first floor - one King size water
bed and one Queen size bed - with a full bath. There are two rooms in a
basement apartment each with a Queen size bed - with a 1/2 bath in the
apartment. She will be on vacation, so you have to fix your own breakfast
or other meals. The house is in Neenah, which is about 20 minutes North of
EAA's AirVenture parking lot. I will be driving to AirVenture each day
(unless I take a day off), but my schedule will be hectic. AirVenture is
Tuesday July 24 thru Monday July 30.
The Brodhead "grass & gas" is Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, July
20,21,22. She will also have several rooms available then.
Call her at 920-725-4432. E=mail pdraves(at)neenah.k12.wi.us Any
problems, call me.
Doc Mosher
920-727-1534
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS/Handheld |
Hey Lou,
You know - you're right. All I need to do is sit down and think this thing
through do a little simple trig and get those angles figured out. Heck
probably basic geometry is all I'd need to use. It's so much fun to trim and
fret.... it is for the wood-leg straight-axle gear.
Sorry we weren't able to get together, I enjoyed sitting down with you
last year, and talking all this neat Piet stuff over. At that point, all I
had was a couple of ribs done. Now I've pretty much gotten the tailfeathers,
all the ribs, and most all of the fuselage done, I'm just wanting to get it
up on the gear soon. I bet yours is getting pretty close to being ready?
From everything I could tell, it is sure gonna be a showpiece! When you come
back to Spring, let us know, we'd all like to see you again!
Thanks for the note, and good luck!!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Magazine articles of interest to the Piet group |
If you want to see a very classy article that pertains to homebuilt
aircraft in Sport Aviation, check out the July 2001 issue (current) and see
the article titled "Virtual Creation" by our own Mark Langford. In it (5
pages with great photos), Mark explains how he thought the stock airfoil
for the KR-2S might stand improvement. So he enlisted several other people
on the web and came up with some startling and useful information. Jack
Cox authors an article about Pete Rafferty's conversion of his two-place
KR-2 to a single-seater, using a 2180-cc VW engine. So here are two
feature articles in Sport Aviation that should be of interest to all of us
Piet people.
Experimenter this month carries Part 2 of Tom Rhodes treatise on "Attaching
metal fittings to wood." That is clearly Pietenpol stuff. Bob Whittier
has his usual excellent article - this month "Appreciating
Seaplanes." Yes, there have been Piets on floats and should be
more. Then, besides the "how to" short articles, John Hartgerink has "Meet
the Replica Fighters - Homebuilders at Heart." which is all about
scratchbuilt wooden WW1 fighter planes. I usually thumb past the
Ultralight stuff, but there is enough homebuilder stuff in Experimenter to
interest me. But, (as they say in the commercials) - that's not
all! Again, our own Cy Galley has his "Safety Programs News" section,
including a very informative article about the DAR program, which has been
a discussion item here on the web. Topical stuff.
Sport Aviation Association, P O Box 2343, Oshkosh WI 54903-2343, is "a
Wisconsin based non profit organization where we're trying to focus on
grassroots aviation. To us, grassroots means learning and practicing the
very basic elements of aircraft building, restoring and maintenance. It
also means flying for its own sake and sharing information that we may all
learn from. Grassroots is the true homebuilder that welcomes the challenge
of the creative process. And hopefully by working together we can all help
keep grassroots aviation affordable."
"SAA has no formal dues structure. We're unique in that we encourage each
member to place his or her own value on their membership. Member donations
allow us to be able to afford to publish and distribute "To Fly" and
occasional newsletters. We encourage all members to contribute to the
organization by sending in articles for the magazine and website -
www.sportaviation.org As a member of SAA you'll receive SAA's quarterly
publication "To Fly" and a membership card signed by SAA founder, Paul H.
Poberezny."
The latest issue of "To Fly" (Summer 2001 - 48 pages) has a newly restored
Ford Pietenpol on the cover, a reprint of Bob Whittier's 4-page "A Visit to
B. H. Pietenpol" (originally printed in the April 1969 issue of Sport
Aviation), a 4 1/2 page article by B. H. Pietenpol "The Pietenpol
Air-Camper" (originally printed in the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual), a
2-page article by Chad Wille "1928 Pietenpol Flies Again!," a 2-page
article by Ron Scott "Strange Aircraft over Southern Wisconsin" all about
Lowell Frank's Warner 145 radial engine Piet. There is even an article by
Doc Mosher "The Millennium Pietenpol." There are lots of color and black
and white photos of Piets. Even got William Wynn's Hawaii-built Piet and
Alan Wise's crowd-pleaser in color at Sun'n'Fun. Plus a lot of other
interesting stuff.
It looks like there is a lot of ink being devoted to Pietenpol-type
building and flying in the various magazines, including Sport Aviation,
Experimenter, and especially "To Fly."
If any of you can put together an article, you should take up Cy Galley's
offer. Call or E-mail him.
Let me especially request you Piet builders and fliers to send your
articles to Paul Poberezny at SAA. I probably will be the person at SAA
(To Fly) who will work with you. We have a great opportunity to exchange
information here. Let's use it!
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | More on Piets on floats |
Can anyone share any info or photos of Piets on floats as Doc mentioned in
his last message?
Chris
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | bungee cord-(whew!) |
Just had a wrestling match with the bungee cord.
I got the cord that is called out on the prints ( 5/8" x 6 ft.) . Man ,
that stuff is nasty to work with! I tried to make it like the print, but
when you look at the print, it's hard to tell what it's showing. Made a
mock up and with the turns that I have, not sure if it's tight enough.
Well anyway,,,I looked at some of the photos in the archives, and it's hard
to tell what the guys have done. Mostly what I see is bungee smaller than
5/8" wrapped in various ways.
I know that when it comes to bungees, it's not what looks good, but what
handles good.
Then theres the end wrapping. In Tony B's book he shows how to make an eye.
He says to have a friend stretch the cord 10%(do I hook it to a truck?)
So, asking you guys that are flying,,,what did you do ?
My first thoughts is to go to lighter stuff with more wraps.
thanks
walt
(may have to get help from the WWF)
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Malley <jgmalley(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: bungee cord-(whew!) |
I believe I followed the plans: Made a loop and lashed my ends tightly
with cord. During the lashing process you'll notice the compression of
the rubber strands taking place under the turns of your cord. My first
attempt was with 6 ft. of 5/8, the plane was fine empty (815 lbs), but
the gear splayed out at gross while taxiing around a corner.
Experimented a while and found that for mine, the optimal length seems
to be 4 and half feet. Each length is wrapped 3 times around each side
of the shock cord arms. (You'll use a lot of cursing here.) And the end
loop is then forced over the retainig plug (more cursing needed, extra
hands also very hepful). I made this originally in 1988 and, because I
understand that rubber dries out over time, have re-done them twice with
fresh cords over the years. Looks rough, works fine.
Jim Malley
walter evans wrote:
>
>
> Just had a wrestling match with the bungee cord.
> I got the cord that is called out on the prints ( 5/8" x 6 ft.) . Man ,
> that stuff is nasty to work with! I tried to make it like the print, but
> when you look at the print, it's hard to tell what it's showing. Made a
> mock up and with the turns that I have, not sure if it's tight enough.
> Well anyway,,,I looked at some of the photos in the archives, and it's hard
> to tell what the guys have done. Mostly what I see is bungee smaller than
> 5/8" wrapped in various ways.
> I know that when it comes to bungees, it's not what looks good, but what
> handles good.
> Then theres the end wrapping. In Tony B's book he shows how to make an eye.
> He says to have a friend stretch the cord 10%(do I hook it to a truck?)
> So, asking you guys that are flying,,,what did you do ?
> My first thoughts is to go to lighter stuff with more wraps.
> thanks
> walt
> (may have to get help from the WWF)
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
I'm planning on flying to Brodhead - unfortunately not in my Piet because
it's only about half done. I normally use WAC charts for VFR navigation and
don't see an airport in or about Brodhead on the chart. Anybody got the
approximate direction and distance from the town, or even better, GPS
coordinates for the field where the fly-in will be held?
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: bungee cord-(whew!) |
In a message dated 7/1/01 2:22:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
> Just had a wrestling match with the bungee cord.
> I got the cord that is called out on the prints ( 5/8" x 6 ft.) . Man ,
> that stuff is nasty to work with! I tried to make it like the print, but
> when you look at the print, it's hard to tell what it's showing. Made a
> mock up and with the turns that I have, not sure if it's tight enough.
> Well anyway,,,I looked at some of the photos in the archives, and it's hard
> to tell what the guys have done. Mostly what I see is bungee smaller than
> 5/8" wrapped in various ways.
> I know that when it comes to bungees, it's not what looks good, but what
> handles good.
> Then theres the end wrapping. In Tony B's book he shows how to make an eye.
> He says to have a friend stretch the cord 10%(do I hook it to a truck?)
> So, asking you guys that are flying,,,what did you do ?
> My first thoughts is to go to lighter stuff with more wraps.
> thanks
> walt
> (may have to get help from the WWF)
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
Walt,
I did as Jim Malley noted in his response. I use good quality hose clamps
and clamp them instead of the wrap and have very good luck with that method.
On my plane, I find that the plane handles better when the bungees are tight.
Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
N42-35.50; W89-22.50
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: <Woodflier(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead
I'm planning on flying to Brodhead - unfortunately not in my Piet because
it's only about half done. I normally use WAC charts for VFR navigation and
don't see an airport in or about Brodhead on the chart. Anybody got the
approximate direction and distance from the town, or even better, GPS
coordinates for the field where the fly-in will be held?
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
See if this helps
BrodheadI (C37)
42=B035'30.035N
089=B022'30.419W
Hope to see you there
Kirk
>
>I'm planning on flying to Brodhead - unfortunately not in my Piet because
>it's only about half done. I normally use WAC charts for VFR navigation and
>don't see an airport in or about Brodhead on the chart. Anybody got the
>approximate direction and distance from the town, or even better, GPS
>coordinates for the field where the fly-in will be held?
>
>Matt Paxton
>
>
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fishin" <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
go into AIRNAV.COM and you'll find everything you ever wanted to know about
Brodhead. Go into "Airports", put in C37 as identifier and you're all set.
JoeC
N99621
-----Original Message-----
From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Date: Sunday, July 01, 2001 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead
>
>N42-35.50; W89-22.50
>
>Cy Galley
>Editor, EAA Safety Programs
>cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Woodflier(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 9:05 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead
>
>
>I'm planning on flying to Brodhead - unfortunately not in my Piet because
>it's only about half done. I normally use WAC charts for VFR navigation and
>don't see an airport in or about Brodhead on the chart. Anybody got the
>approximate direction and distance from the town, or even better, GPS
>coordinates for the field where the fly-in will be held?
>
>Matt Paxton
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Glad you like them. I have plenty left for anyone who wants one for Oshkosh
and Brodhead....
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
wd6auy(at)ez2.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: HATS
Steve E. - received the hats and thanks! Hope you have enough for
all those who still want to order. Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: bungee cord-(whew!) |
Walt- I use six feet of 1/2" bungee cord on my straight axle gear.
I tye-wrap (yep, good quality tye-wraps) a loop around the axle then
wrap in a figure eight type manner as tight as I can. (the 1/2" is a joy to
work with over the 5/8") Then I tye-wap the end with about six or so of those
buggers. (the first loop too.) One thing that is helpful is a tye-wrap
gun to
get em to squeeze down tight and cut the excess. I suggest if you use this
method that you file those sharp ends of the tye-wraps too so they don't
chafe the neighboring wrap. You'll have to wrap and re-wrap to get yours
to bounce just right. They will loosen up within the first few hours of use
so tighter is better up front. If you make them too loose you'll have
high pucker-factors
in a cross wind as when you put your aileron into the wind the bungees don't
transfer this authority to the wing/fuselage and you'll be heading off into the
toolies. There is a good balance between too tight and too loose and with
a few
tries you'll get it.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | bungee cord-(whew!) |
I'll throw in my $.02 here too, since I just redid my bungees a week ago.
First prepare to be a little sore.
I did this by myself this time since I didn't have any help around. I make
my bungees about 5' long and do four wraps on each side. I reread the
bingles books as a refresher. This time I used my old strut bungees as a
pattern for length. I used fiberglass reinforced scotch tape to wrap the
bungee where I cut each section to prevent fraying and to keep the ends
looking nice. I didn't do a great job of that last time and the ends
"bloomed" over time. Make a loop on the end you'll be working on and secure
it with a nylon wire tie. Then hook the loop around hook fastened to your
workbench. I used a nylon cargo strap wrapped around a 2x4 screwed to the
workbench. I have a vice at the opposite end of my bench and used that to
hold the free end of the bungee. The vice has jaw protectors that prevent
damage to the bungee. Just pull the bungee 10% and clamp it in the vice,
then you have both hand to work on tying the wraps on the loop end. When
you have one end done swap ends and repeat. I used SS safty wire the first
time, and #8 nylon braided cord this time. Extend your wraps at least 2
inches, using a half hitch every other wrap. When it comes time to put the
bungees on the strut, wrap the bungee as tight as you can, without busting a
gut, then work them tighter with a pry bar around each loop until you have
enough extra to loop it around again. It gets tough at the end, but doable.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of walter
evans
Subject: Pietenpol-List: bungee cord-(whew!)
Just had a wrestling match with the bungee cord.
I got the cord that is called out on the prints ( 5/8" x 6 ft.) . Man ,
that stuff is nasty to work with! I tried to make it like the print, but
when you look at the print, it's hard to tell what it's showing. Made a
mock up and with the turns that I have, not sure if it's tight enough.
Well anyway,,,I looked at some of the photos in the archives, and it's hard
to tell what the guys have done. Mostly what I see is bungee smaller than
5/8" wrapped in various ways.
I know that when it comes to bungees, it's not what looks good, but what
handles good.
Then theres the end wrapping. In Tony B's book he shows how to make an eye.
He says to have a friend stretch the cord 10%(do I hook it to a truck?)
So, asking you guys that are flying,,,what did you do ?
My first thoughts is to go to lighter stuff with more wraps.
thanks
walt
(may have to get help from the WWF)
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
Am at the stage where I am welding the fork, adjustable ends of my lift
struts. What rule, law, reg or what have you about the number of exposed
threads in and out of the barrel. Can't find it in Part 34 or Bingelis. Can
someone shed some proper lite on this one?
Corky in La with a red hot torch.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
Another minor problem. I'm to have my bird fully assembled, engine running
and rigged when I request my FAA inspection ( naked ) from my man in Baton
Rouge.
Now when that is completed I have to disassemble to cover. Question: What is
the best way to rig the lower aileron cables in order to disconnect other
than a cable cutter? I'm sure someone out there has faced this problem.
Corky in La washing and ironing his Tex shirt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Cables |
Sheesh Corky, I can't believe that your FAA guy is requiring all of that
crap. Have you had him read FAA Advisory Circular AC20-27D. Or at least
suggest he read it. Precover inspections are not required.......
Just goes ta show ya...There really is no real definition of "the authority
vested in thee"
Chris House
Frowning over Corky's inspector's (typical FAA) lack of knowledge
P.S. While he's there, you might ask him to go get ya a nice cool beer and a
bucket of bayou shrimp, since he DOES work for you, being a public servant
and all......
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Cables
>
> Pieters,
> Another minor problem. I'm to have my bird fully assembled, engine running
> and rigged when I request my FAA inspection ( naked ) from my man in Baton
> Rouge.
> Now when that is completed I have to disassemble to cover. Question: What
is
> the best way to rig the lower aileron cables in order to disconnect other
> than a cable cutter? I'm sure someone out there has faced this problem.
> Corky in La washing and ironing his Tex shirt
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Williams" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
Buds-
I am putting the cowling on my Cherry Grove missile and am wondering about the
plywood piece on the plans.
Looks like the suggested way is to bolt that 3/4" plywood ring to the front of
the engine and nail the bottom and side pieces to it. Step #2 is to take out the
bolts and nail the front ring in place.
I'm not too keen on having that much weight flailing around close to my shiny new
prop and fatiguing my .020 aluminum cowling. I'm opting out of the plywood
ring altogether and my "nosebowl" will be the only thing being supported.
Comments?????
Larry in CVG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Larry in CVG,
I am at the same building spot as you. I don't have a clue yet on how to go
about building the cowl. I'm using an A-65 and I do have the eyebrows
completed and installed. Lets keep in touch on this problem and maybe we can
make it a little easier. Thanks,
Corky in LA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KGardner(at)odu.edu |
07/04/2001 12:13:16 PM
Hi List,
Been off work this week to try to get the house painting finished up - like
what everyone says about a Piet project - 90% finished & 90% to go! At
least it's beginning to look like there's progress. I was one of the guys
Walt sent his wood lists to & it looks to me like it's exactly what I need.
From what Walt sent, it looks like he just gave them a list of the sizes &
lengths of wood he wanted & they turned it into a quote & then an invoice.
I guess the moral is when dealing with AS&S, DON'T tell them you want the
Piet kit (or even that you are building a Piet), just order the wood you
need from Walt's list!
Thanks again Walt!
Kip Gardner (who is sick of house painting & wants to get to OH & start
cutting Spruce!)
Laboratory Manager
Old Dominion University
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences, Rm. 441
4600 Elkhorn Ave.
Norfolk, VA 23529
Ph: 757-683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Honor Veterans - Stop War"
(On the car of a friend who is a DFC-decorated WWII veteran)
wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net
Sent by: To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat cc:
ronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Spruce
06/30/01 05:25
Please respond to
pietenpol-list
I was very satisfied with my spruce order from AS&S ( about two years ago)
First they give you a quote on price and a list of dimensions and lengths.
It's up to you if it's right . Mine was right on the money (I'm
covering
now)
Few months ago I scanned the wood lists and reciepts, and emailed them to
whoever wanted them. I'll be glad to fwd them to you if you haven't seen
them.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Michelle Brant" <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
Are any "Pieters" glying into OSH this year? Or driving I guess... If
so, I'd like to take the opportunity to get together and do a little
Piet "mind-melding". Of course, I would also love to take a look at
some more Piets first hand. Unfortunately, I am in a wedding on the
weekend before, which I understand is Brodhead correct??? I will be
planning to attend next year though.
Tom Brant, MLPS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Kip,
Glad I could help. The typed wood list was given to AS&S as a guide , from
a previous builder, that they generated their cut list from.
Was right on the money for me ( long fuselage, three piece wing)
walt
(covering in Joisey)
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: <KGardner(at)odu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
>
>
> Hi List,
>
> Been off work this week to try to get the house painting finished up -
like
> what everyone says about a Piet project - 90% finished & 90% to go! At
> least it's beginning to look like there's progress. I was one of the guys
> Walt sent his wood lists to & it looks to me like it's exactly what I
need.
> From what Walt sent, it looks like he just gave them a list of the sizes &
> lengths of wood he wanted & they turned it into a quote & then an invoice.
> I guess the moral is when dealing with AS&S, DON'T tell them you want the
> Piet kit (or even that you are building a Piet), just order the wood you
> need from Walt's list!
>
> Thanks again Walt!
>
> Kip Gardner (who is sick of house painting & wants to get to OH & start
> cutting Spruce!)
> Laboratory Manager
> Old Dominion University
> Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences, Rm. 441
> 4600 Elkhorn Ave.
> Norfolk, VA 23529
>
> Ph: 757-683-5654
>
> Bumper Sticker of the Week:
>
> "Honor Veterans - Stop War"
> (On the car of a friend who is a DFC-decorated WWII veteran)
>
>
> wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net
> Sent by: To:
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat cc:
> ronics.com Subject:
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
>
>
> 06/30/01 05:25
> Please respond to
> pietenpol-list
>
>
>
>
> I was very satisfied with my spruce order from AS&S ( about two years ago)
> First they give you a quote on price and a list of dimensions and lengths.
> It's up to you if it's right . Mine was right on the money (I'm
> covering
> now)
> Few months ago I scanned the wood lists and reciepts, and emailed them to
> whoever wanted them. I'll be glad to fwd them to you if you haven't seen
> them.
> walt
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Williams" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | cowling and drain grommets |
Corky-
Making a cowling for the Continental in a Pietenpol is humanly impossible. Suggest
you substitute a Ford "A".
Everyone-
Any suggestions out there about the number and type (seaplane, plain, melted hole)
of grommets to use in the wing/ailerons? One on each side of each rib at the
trailing edge seems reasonable but if I use all seaplane grommets I'm afraid
that the combined venturi effect might collapse my ribs.
Comments?
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: cowling and drain grommets |
Thanks for the tip Larry but I'm just too far along to stop now.
Corky in La where I find I can lash seven empty gal milk plastics between the
engine and firewall for floatation for the forward half of the plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Cables |
Corky,
Mine has a "splice" in them. It is made by bending the cable back into an
eye and securing with nicropress fitting. Then the two eyes are connected
with two flat pieces of metal with pins going through the eyes. To
seperate, just remove a pin and slide the eye out. Don't have to rerig each
time.
Ted in Naples FL wishing he was closer so he could come up and sample some
of that cajun food.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Cables
>
> Pieters,
> Another minor problem. I'm to have my bird fully assembled, engine running
> and rigged when I request my FAA inspection ( naked ) from my man in Baton
> Rouge.
> Now when that is completed I have to disassemble to cover. Question: What
is
> the best way to rig the lower aileron cables in order to disconnect other
> than a cable cutter? I'm sure someone out there has faced this problem.
> Corky in La washing and ironing his Tex shirt
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cowling and drain grommets |
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Williams
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling and drain grommets
Corky-
Making a cowling for the Continental in a Pietenpol is humanly
impossible
. Suggest you substitute a Ford "A".
Everyone-
Any suggestions out there about the number and type (seaplane, plain,
mel
ted hole) of grommets to use in the wing/ailerons? One on each side of
ea
ch rib at the trailing edge seems reasonable but if I use all seaplane
gr
ommets I'm afraid that the combined venturi effect might collapse my
ribs
.
Comments?
Larry
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - --
- - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -
Making the cowling for my C-100 was not easy. I worked back from a
fiberglass cub nose bowl. Used reams of cardboard to make the templets.
Took much time, but it can be done.
I have seaplane grommets at each rib section on the wings, ailerons, &
elevator. No problems since 1988.
Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Cables |
Ted in Naples,
Welcome to come up and have some Gumbo with us anytime. Best to let us know
your ETA. I think I've solved the aileron cable splice problem, Thanks for
your input. I chose a solution of Southern Engineering. Decided to move the
turnbuckle between the first and second wing ribs.
Corky in La getting fatter every day on that cajun food. Bleed your heart out.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | link to cowling advice sources |
Guys- try this EAA website for some neat on-line articles by
Bingelis, others on this very humanly possible task.
Mike C.
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/building/cowling/cowling.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | rolling on poly paint |
a neat article for those of you who might not want to
or can't feasibly spray your fabric.
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/building/painting/starks_sa0601.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <blueskyaviation(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rolling on poly paint |
List,
I am one who watches this list and doesn't say much. I am a distributor and
tech-rep for AFS you can read all about rolling on our poly at our web site.
We are have a sale for those of you who can not make it to Oshkosh on the
AFS products and a few of our other items.
Look forward to talking with you at Arlington.
Noel Simmons
Owner Blue Sky Aviation,
www.blskyav.com
blueskyaviation(at)mcn.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rolling on poly paint
>
> a neat article for those of you who might not want to
> or can't feasibly spray your fabric.
>
>
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/building/painting/starks_sa0601.htm
l
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 07/04/01 |
hey Corky, have you thought of using bubble pack? We get lots of that stuff
up here in Chighetto.
Ryder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 07/04/01 |
Have some ready to go under both seats.
Corky, floating down the old Red River in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Is it the right metal? |
If you trey to make your cowl from 2024 T3 then it is a wrestling match.
It really needs to be something like 1/2 hard 5052 or 6061. It will work
easy and hold its shape and you can weld any cracks. Just took down a J-3
cowl and it istill plenty soft and formable even after age hardening for 55
years.
I do not know what Tony B. recommends but it sure is the stuff to use.
.032 is the best thickness to use.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 7/4/01 12:45:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< Glad I could help. The typed wood list was given to AS&S as a guide , from
a previous builder, that they generated their cut list from.
Was right on the money for me ( long fuselage, three piece wing)
walt
(covering in Joisey) >>
I'm going to need that same list. Is there any reason that AS&S couldn't just
keep that list, and call it their Pietenpol List ??
How much difference is there between the list you have and the one AS&S sells
as GN-1 kit ?
-dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Dennis,
That list came from AS&S. I think when they sent me the quote they said
something like " This is the best list we have and we quote from it. Check
it out and if it looks good, here is our price" ( This is paraphrased, but
that is the way I remember it)
this was a few years ago, so they might not be as good now ,,,,OR they may
be better.
Alls I know is that AS&S seems to go out of their way to please with correct
orders and prompt service. As of today,( now I'm covering fuse, vert.
stabilizer) I usually get my stuff from AS&S or Dillsburg for chrome moly
stuff.
When this project is done and I start my next, if it's made of spruce, I
will start at Aircraft Spruce.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: <Dmott9(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
>
> In a message dated 7/4/01 12:45:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
>
> << Glad I could help. The typed wood list was given to AS&S as a guide ,
from
> a previous builder, that they generated their cut list from.
> Was right on the money for me ( long fuselage, three piece wing)
> walt
> (covering in Joisey) >>
> I'm going to need that same list. Is there any reason that AS&S couldn't
just
> keep that list, and call it their Pietenpol List ??
> How much difference is there between the list you have and the one AS&S
sells
> as GN-1 kit ?
> -dennis
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Is it the right metal? |
For every aluminum piece on my Piet I used 2024-T3, .025" thick.
The .032 seemed too difficult to cut, form and bend----plus there is
a small weight penalty. The cooling eyebrows, however, were made of 2024-0,
or dead soft alum and have no cracks after 200 hours. Same for the
cowl and cockpit covers. Ordered all my alum from Dillsburg Aeroworks,
717-432-4589. (and every cable and AN piece of hardware as well.)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is it the right metal? |
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:55 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Is it the right metal?
For every aluminum piece on my Piet I used 2024-T3, .025" thick.
The .032 seemed too difficult to cut, form and bend----plus there is
a small weight penalty. The cooling eyebrows, however, were made of
2024-0,
or dead soft alum and have no cracks after 200 hours. Same for the
cowl and cockpit covers. Ordered all my alum from Dillsburg
Aeroworks,
717-432-4589. (and every cable and AN piece of hardware as well.)
Mike C.
_---------- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- -- - - - - -
- - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - -
I agree with Mike C. I used 2024 T-3. Difficult to work .032.
Ahmen to Dillsburg. I've got some much Dillsburg stuff in my Piet,
that I was thinking of naming it " The Dillsburg Flyer "
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Is it the right metal? |
In a message dated 7/6/01 6:57:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes:
> For every aluminum piece on my Piet I used 2024-T3, .025" thick.
> The .032 seemed too difficult to cut, form and bend----plus there is
> a small weight penalty. The cooling eyebrows, however, were made of
> 2024-0,
> or dead soft alum and have no cracks after 200 hours. Same for the
> cowl and cockpit covers. Ordered all my alum from Dillsburg Aeroworks,
> 717-432-4589. (and every cable and AN piece of hardware as well.)
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
Mike,
2024-T3 is what is used commonly for the skin on metal airplanes. It is fine
for cowling, however, it is difficult to work. 6061-T6 is fine also and is
much easier to work. I use it on all my airplanes and am ready to cowl the
Scout now. I'll use .025 or .032 whichever I can find at the Yard Store here
in Wichita. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Emch" <emchair(at)cros.net> |
Hi List,
I'm just doing the final trimming on my A-65 cowl. I gave it the Frank Pavliga/Mike
Cuy treatment. It really is't all that hard as long as you make posterboard
templates first. I also used .025" 2024-T3. Although not as easy to work
as the 5052 I used for the fuel tank, it wasn't too bad. The simple style of
the cowl helps. The .025" thickness sure seems flimsy when flat, but as soon
as you give it some curvature it really stiffens up. My bending brake is only
18", so I found that one of the best tools for bending the larger sheets of
.025" was my wooden saw horse or my knees and thighs. Funny how non-airplane
people think this airplane building thing is really high tech!
Don E.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
| Subject: | Order quantity of 1/8 inch plywood |
To all:
A question for those of you who have already ordered/bought your 1/8 inch
plywood... How much did you need for the whole airplane?
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Order quantity of 1/8 inch plywood |
In a message dated 7/10/01 2:13:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mboynton(at)excite.com writes:
> To all:
>
> A question for those of you who have already ordered/bought your 1/8 inch
> plywood... How much did you need for the whole airplane?
>
> Mark Boynton
> Gilbert, AZ
>
>
>
Mark,
Two 4x8 sheets will do nicely and you will have some extra. You can calculate
the requirement more precisely and probably get by with a little less.
Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ken breier" <kbreier(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Order quantity of 1/8 inch plywood |
To all:
What are some of the alternatives for aircraft grade 1/8 ply?
Ken Breier
Atlanta Ga.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Order quantity of 1/8 inch plywood |
Ken,
Take a look at
http://www.aitwood.com
under "ultra-thin plywood".
Keep in mind that in addition to meeting the "standards" you are also looking
at certified insurance coverage. The above products exceed the aircraft
standards, but are not certified and insured. Check with local cabinet
makers for a local supplier.
Good luck.
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Order quantity of 1/8 inch plywood |
Ken,
I've used some Marine grade plywood that meets the British standard -
BS1088 I believe it is. It is a spec for internal voids, boil times etc. It
was marketed under the name "Aquatek" and "Hydratek". The 1088 spec appeared
to be basically the same as the aircraft plywood spec, so I was comfortable
with the substitution.
It is a little lighter colored than mahogany, but when varnished, darkens
down to a close match for mahogany. I bought a 1/8" sheet and a 1/4" sheet
and together they were something like $40-$50. I used the real stuff in the
sides of the fuselage before I found the marine stuff, and used the 1/4" for
my floor, and the 1/8" for my bulkheads. and 2 - 1/8" sheets and 1 1/4"
sheet looks about right, I think someone already said that.
Anyway, it looks fine, and seems plenty strong
Good luck!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
(eyeballing the landing gear, and hoping for time to work on it....)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Order quantity of 1/8 inch plywood |
Warren D. Shoun helpfully wrote:
> Take a look at
> http://www.aitwood.com
> under "ultra-thin plywood".
> Keep in mind that in addition to meeting the "standards" you are also
looking
> at certified insurance coverage. The above products exceed the aircraft
> standards, but are not certified and insured. Check with local cabinet
> makers for a local supplier.
Actually, that page worries me. There is nothing in the description
to indicate that this Finnish birch is waterproof. The Australian
hoop pine at least is described as "exterior" grade, and the European
birch is available in a marine grade, though only down to 1/4 inch.
Under the circumstances, unless you definitely know something that
does not appear in the online catalog, the fact that the "ultra-thin
plywood"
is not specifically described as being okay for moist environments
strongly suggests to me that it isn't. More checking indicated!
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Order quantity of 1/8 inch plywood |
| From: | KGardner(at)odu.edu |
07/11/2001 12:30:47 PM
Hi List,
While we're at it, can anybody shed light on the amount of 1/16" ply needed
to do all the wing rib gussets?
Thanks!
Kip Gardner
Laboratory Manager
Old Dominion University
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences, Rm. 441
4600 Elkhorn Ave.
Norfolk, VA 23529
Ph: 757-683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Honor Veterans - Stop War"
(On the car of a friend who is a DFC-decorated WWII veteran)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | what did Pietenpol use ? |
Group- let me preface my question with the hope that all
airplane builders would attempt to use the best materials
and hardware that is within their budget and still provide
a good quality plane, but when Bernard built his 26 planes
over the years he used everything from the tops of steel drums
for fittings to hardware store straps, hinges, and bolts. I'm sure the glues
and varnishes he used couldn't hold a candle to what is available to
us today, however these planes were safe and some are still
flying today. Not to suggest proceeding with reckless abandon
just to save a buck, but this is what I think forces each Pietenpol
builder to get creative and solve his or her own material
selection dilemmas with some digging and research. My cooling
eyebrows are painted with flat black barbecue grill paint. I used hobby
shop block balsa wood around the wing center section cutout, there
are go-kart caliper brakes on the wheels, there is ash from a local
sawmill, the fabric is non-certified Superflite 1.7 oz because without
the stamp they can sell it for less.......even though it rolls off the same
textile machines as the stamped stuff. There is a maple plywood
reinforcing plate around the handhold......from the Home Depot,
there are some cosmetic wood pieces glued in with 5 minute epoxy,
and the oil temp and pressure gauges are Mitchell automotive types.
Course the spars are sitka spruce...and the prop bolts are AN prop
bolts.....
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Felts <jfelts101(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Ultralight Version? |
I really like the looks of the Pietenpol. I've got a
Kawaski 440B and I'm wondering is there a ultralight
version? Or is it possible to build a ultralight
Peitenpol? Where would one get the plans for a
ultralight Pietenpol?
Thanks
Jerry in South Dakota
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ultralight Version? |
| From: | KGardner(at)odu.edu |
07/11/2001 02:22:48 PM
Jerry,
You can get plans for an Ultralight Piet from Roger Mann at Ragwing
Aviation in South Carolina. I believe he advertises in the classifieds of
Experimenter & Sport Aviation (& perhaps KitPlanes as well).
Good Luck!
Kip Gardner
Laboratory Manager
Old Dominion University
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences, Rm. 441
4600 Elkhorn Ave.
Norfolk, VA 23529
Ph: 757-683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Honor Veterans - Stop War"
(On the car of a friend who is a DFC-decorated WWII veteran)
jfelts101(at)yahoo.com
Sent by: To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat cc:
ronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List:
Ultralight
Version?
07/11/01 13:21
Please respond to
pietenpol-list
I really like the looks of the Pietenpol. I've got a
Kawaski 440B and I'm wondering is there a ultralight
version? Or is it possible to build a ultralight
Peitenpol? Where would one get the plans for a
ultralight Pietenpol?
Thanks
Jerry in South Dakota
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Plywood for wing rib gussets |
| From: | john e fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
For the wing rib gussets I found that one piece of 1/16" plywood, 2 ft. X
4 ft. was sufficient.
John Fay in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ultralight Version? |
| From: | john e fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
> I really like the looks of the Pietenpol. I've got a
> Kawaski 440B and I'm wondering is there a ultralight
> version? Or is it possible to build a ultralight
> Peitenpol? Where would one get the plans for a
> ultralight Pietenpol?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jerry in South Dakota
>
Jerry,
Yes, Ragwing Aviation has an ultralight version of the Piet.
Ragwing Aviation
1705 Trail Rd.
Belton, S.C. 29627
(864)338-1335; 972-5606; 225-3773
Whether it is possible to contact them by email or internet, I do not
know.
John in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim <tbertw(at)tenbuckplans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ultralight Version? |
Jerry,
Fisher Flying Products makes a "sort of" Pietenpol looking aircraft.
http://www.fisherflying.com/FP505.html
I think they have a stock fuselage and stock wings and attach them with an
appropriate tail and make several different look alikes.
Tim - Houston area lurker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Ultra-Piet web page below |
http://members.aol.com/~ragwingman/ragwing-aircraft/Welcome.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what did Pietenpol use ? |
Outside USA is a must, To import everything for a
plane is out of question $$$$... dolar exchange,
shipping, customs taxes, insurance, you name it!
BUT ( a big BUT) you have to be sure of what you are
using.
As a local builder answered when asked about the use
of "aviation only" materials in all his plane, by a
visitor (talking of prices when looking at the
Aircraft Spruce and Speciaties catalog)...
"How much does your courage (or Couwardice)costs?"
If you dont trust your materials (and your plane,
obiously) then you are not enjoying your flight.
Instead of looking at the sunset you are thinking of
that particular bolt, or piece of wood or glued
joint...
That feeling inside the chest, is the same as the
first night after your date just told you about her
period beeing "a little" late...
Every turbulence is a "mental nightmare".
Even if the plane is in perfect shape, Safe and Sound
and will never ever fail!!!
Every "non aviation" material you use has to be tested
at your own "Standards" and no one else... or your
plane will become a Hangar Queen, cleaned and polished
every weekend by his chickened pilot....
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
>
> Group- let me preface my question with the hope that
> all
> airplane builders would attempt to use the best
> materials
> and hardware that is within their budget and still
> provide
> a good quality plane, but when Bernard built his 26
> planes
> over the years he used everything from the tops of
> steel drums
> for fittings to hardware store straps, hinges, and
> bolts. I'm sure the glues
> and varnishes he used couldn't hold a candle to what
> is available to
> us today, however these planes were safe and some
> are still
> flying today. Not to suggest proceeding with
> reckless abandon
> just to save a buck, but this is what I think
> forces each Pietenpol
> builder to get creative and solve his or her own
> material
> selection dilemmas with some digging and research.
> My cooling
> eyebrows are painted with flat black barbecue grill
> paint. I used hobby
> shop block balsa wood around the wing center section
> cutout, there
> are go-kart caliper brakes on the wheels, there is
> ash from a local
> sawmill, the fabric is non-certified Superflite 1.7
> oz because without
> the stamp they can sell it for less.......even
> though it rolls off the same
> textile machines as the stamped stuff. There is a
> maple plywood
> reinforcing plate around the handhold......from the
> Home Depot,
> there are some cosmetic wood pieces glued in with 5
> minute epoxy,
> and the oil temp and pressure gauges are Mitchell
> automotive types.
> Course the spars are sitka spruce...and the prop
> bolts are AN prop
> bolts.....
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Felts <jfelts101(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Ultralitght version of Piet |
Thanks guys for letting me know about Rag Wings. The
more I read the more in love I fall with it. Actually
now I've got another problem. I like the Ultra-Piet
but I also like the Rag-A-Muffin. Geez which one?
which one? Sure hope Rag Wings will be at Oshkosh
cause I'd really like to talk with him, and hopefully
see some of his planes! Once again thanks for the info
guys, but see what you have done to me now. LOL
Jerry in South Dakota
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Williams" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Building Materials |
Bro's-
Mike Cuy's last posting should be copied and posted on the wall of every
Pietenpol builder's shop.
My sentiments echo Mike exactly. If I have material to buy I try to imagine what
the guys in the 30's used. If I can upgrade it without a great deal of expense
or an increase in weight, I'll do so. If I can't, I start looking in hardware
stores, hobby shops, and lumber yards. I don't think anyone can look at my
Air Camper and find anything unsafe or anything that doesn't look like it belongs
on an airplane.
So don't get bogged down with finding an aviation-grade widget. Make it yourself
or find something that is a suitable substitute. There is so much that can be
learned by finding solutions to the unexpected mysteries that are inherent in
building from 70+ year old plans, and that's what the homebuilt movement is
about.....education!
I have not and will not advocate less than AN fittings and cables, 4130 steel,
and the tried-and-true methods for building airplanes that are spelled out in
various FAA, CAA, NACA, etc. pubs. Bingelis is GREAT, too.
That's it for me...............See Ya' at B'Head!!!
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building Materials |
My sentiments exactly. I've also broken, torn apart, bent, and stretched
several different pieces of my project to make sure what I was using or
making would stand up to flight. I will fly with absolute certainty that
everything I built can stand up to the stresses it needs too. Also, just
because it's "aircraft quality" doesn't mean it won't or can't fail. I
visually check every bolt, pin, nut, screw, etc before I place it in my
aircraft. I've found more than a couple pieces that didn't look right and
were tossed in the trash can.
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ultralitght version of Piet |
Jerry,
You are just beguining... they are lots of projects in
the ultralight (and "fat" ultralight) concept, also
take a look at the Legal Eagle:
http://www.usastores.com/betterhalf/
Saludos
Gary Gower
PS, take your time (but not to much)searching, but
build the one that you will finish and fly.
--- Jerry Felts wrote:
>
>
> Thanks guys for letting me know about Rag Wings. The
> more I read the more in love I fall with it.
> Actually
> now I've got another problem. I like the Ultra-Piet
> but I also like the Rag-A-Muffin. Geez which one?
> which one? Sure hope Rag Wings will be at Oshkosh
> cause I'd really like to talk with him, and
> hopefully
> see some of his planes! Once again thanks for the
> info
> guys, but see what you have done to me now. LOL
>
> Jerry in South Dakota
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RD <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
Well, I've been building my Piet now for almost 3 years, and I have yet to
make it to a Brodhead fly-in. :( Probably because it's half-way across the
country. Anyone interested in going to an East Coast Piet fly-in, please
email me. I have talked with a couple other builders willing to help out,
and I'd love to get one going.
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ultralitght version of Piet |
In a message dated 07/12/2001 5:45:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jfelts101(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< Thanks guys for letting me know about Rag Wings. The
more I read the more in love I fall with it. Actually
now I've got another problem. I like the Ultra-Piet
but I also like the Rag-A-Muffin. Geez which one? >>
Why not go with the REAL Pietenpol ?? For what the Rag Wing
kits run, you could build an entire Pietenpol Air Camper.
Engine wise, the Corvair power seems most economical to me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: East Coast Piet fly-in |
| From: | KGardner(at)odu.edu |
07/13/2001 02:34:47 PM
Hi Richard,
Where do you have in mind? I'm moving to northeast OH soon & Maine would be
just as far away as Wisconsin for me. Does anyone know of a nice
Brodhead-type airfield in, say, east-central PA that would be a reasonable
distance for most East Coast folks? Any Piet builders/flyers in that area?
I don't have time right now to get involved in this, but would be
interested once my life settles down after the move. I'd vote for late
Spring or early Fall to avoid the lovely East Coast summer temperatures.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
Laboratory Manager
Old Dominion University
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences, Rm. 441
4600 Elkhorn Ave.
Norfolk, VA 23529
Ph: 757-683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Honor Veterans - Stop War"
(On the car of a friend who is a DFC-decorated WWII veteran)
rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com
Sent by: To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat cc:
ronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List:
Piet fly-in
07/13/01 14:00
Please respond to
pietenpol-list
Well, I've been building my Piet now for almost 3 years, and I have yet to
make it to a Brodhead fly-in. :( Probably because it's half-way across the
country. Anyone interested in going to an East Coast Piet fly-in, please
email me. I have talked with a couple other builders willing to help out,
and I'd love to get one going.
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry F." <nr5a(at)actcom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ultralitght version of Piet |
I'm almost scared to say anything because I don't want to start a war
online. Well, I would but I'm more interested in ultralights because you
don't have to have a pilot license, which to get costs a bundle around here,
I don't have that bundle. I can by the skin of my teeth afford ultralight
flying lessons tho and was suppose to solo on a Sun but on the Thursday
before I had a heart attack which ended up with a 4way by-pass operation,
and the loss of 2 1/2 toes on my right foot. Not sure but this might knock
out passing the required medicial exam for a pilot license. I do already
have the Kaw. 440 for it too, which means I only have to afford the
airframe. This list is the greatest, thanks guys.
Jerry in South Dakota
----- Original Message -----
From: <Dmott9(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ultralitght version of Piet
>
> In a message dated 07/12/2001 5:45:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> jfelts101(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> << Thanks guys for letting me know about Rag Wings. The
> more I read the more in love I fall with it. Actually
> now I've got another problem. I like the Ultra-Piet
> but I also like the Rag-A-Muffin. Geez which one? >>
> Why not go with the REAL Pietenpol ?? For what the Rag Wing
> kits run, you could build an entire Pietenpol Air Camper.
> Engine wise, the Corvair power seems most economical to me.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ultralitght version of Piet |
| From: | KGardner(at)odu.edu |
07/13/2001 04:04:49 PM
Jerry,
Don't feel you need to justify or apologize for your reasons for wanting to
build a UL! I think we all go through a lot of 'what if' thinking in
deciding what to build. It all depends on what figuring out what YOU want,
the kind of flying YOU want to do & the resources YOU have. That said,
there are a bunch of possible choices, as you are finding out.
All that said, just one other thought for you to consider. A full-size
Piet will fall under the new Sport pilot/Sport Aircraft regulations. That
means you will be able to fly one without a valid medical & with training
more like UL training than for a regular pilot's license.
Yes, you already have a motor & that may well be your clinching factor, but
as a number of people have pointed out to me over the couple of years I've
been pondering this project, Piets can be very cheap to build if you take
the time to scrounge the materials. It's the old story of what do you have
more of, time or money?
Anyway, good luck whatever you decide on. You might also check out a cute
little folding-wing design called the Aero Butterfly UL. Also advertised in
the back of Experimenter, been around a while & the plans are only $25.
BTW, if you haven't already done so, join the EAA! Just having access to
the information in the 'Members only' part of their website is worth the
dues.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
Laboratory Manager
Old Dominion University
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences, Rm. 441
4600 Elkhorn Ave.
Norfolk, VA 23529
Ph: 757-683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Honor Veterans - Stop War"
(On the car of a friend who is a DFC-decorated WWII veteran)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: RD
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 2:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet fly-in
Well, I've been building my Piet now for almost 3 years, and I have
yet to
make it to a Brodhead fly-in. :( Probably because it's half-way across
the
country. Anyone interested in going to an East Coast Piet fly-in,
please
email me. I have talked with a couple other builders willing to help
out,
and I'd love to get one going.
Richard
----------------------------
Years age we held a Piet fly-in at the old Rhinbeck aerodrome in
Rhinebeck NY.
Don't if that will work now, but I would be interested in an east
coast fly-in. My Piet is based at Saratoga NY.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ultralitght version of Piet |
Kip Gardner helpfully suggested:
> All that said, just one other thought for you to consider. A full-size
> Piet will fall under the new Sport pilot/Sport Aircraft regulations. That
> means you will be able to fly one without a valid medical & with training
> more like UL training than for a regular pilot's license.
Consider it, but don't count on it. Last time we went this way,
DOT restored the requirement for a medical certificate, thereby
making the new category useless. I know this is a minority view,
but personally I'll be amazed if it doesn't happen again. Sport
Pilot is yet another dream that has only a modest chance of
becoming a reality.
Of course, I'd love to be proved wrong!
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ultralitght version of Piet |
| From: | KGardner(at)odu.edu |
07/13/2001 05:42:38 PM
I certainly hope you ARE proved wrong, Owen, but you are right to point out
that the "Fat Lady Ain't Sung Yet!"
Good flying this weekend , Ya'll.
Kip Gardner(who'll be flying a ladder & paint bucket again!)
Laboratory Manager
Old Dominion University
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences, Rm. 441
4600 Elkhorn Ave.
Norfolk, VA 23529
Ph: 757-683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Honor Veterans - Stop War"
(On the car of a friend who is a DFC-decorated WWII veteran)
owen(at)davies.mv.com
Sent by: To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat cc:
ronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Ultralitght version
of Piet
07/13/01 20:28
Please respond to
pietenpol-list
Consider it, but don't count on it. Last time we went this way,
DOT restored the requirement for a medical certificate, thereby
making the new category useless. I know this is a minority view,
but personally I'll be amazed if it doesn't happen again. Sport
Pilot is yet another dream that has only a modest chance of
becoming a reality.
Of course, I'd love to be proved wrong!
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david kowell <dkowell(at)cstone.net> |
sounds good to me david kowell sothern va
RD wrote:
>
> Well, I've been building my Piet now for almost 3 years, and I have yet to
> make it to a Brodhead fly-in. :( Probably because it's half-way across the
> country. Anyone interested in going to an East Coast Piet fly-in, please
> email me. I have talked with a couple other builders willing to help out,
> and I'd love to get one going.
>
> Richard
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
To Okoume users,
I took a look at the Matronics archive and saw that some of you have use
Okoume for your fuselage sides. How has it worked out? Would you use it
again?
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "SAM & JAN MARINUCCI" <srmjem(at)ezol.com> |
Richard,
I'd also be interested in a Piet fly in on the East coast. I'm
located in Dover, Delaware and about three years into my project too. Since
I'm retired now, I can help out with setting up a fly in. I'm sure there
should be plenty of guys (and gals) willing to help coordinate with whatever
it takes to put on a fly in.
Sam
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
A little far from Maine but how about 2D1 - Barber Airport in
Alliance, OH? Two grass strips, 80 Octane, and camping on the
field. It is the site of the Taylorcraft fly in and the Ohio
Aeronca Aviators fly in. Nice place and nice people. Sky Gypsy
is based there and Mike Cuy has been known to drop in.
Dave
N36078
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <J-M-Duprey(at)erols.com> |
Count me in.
John Duprey
Whitman MA
RD wrote:
>
> Well, I've been building my Piet now for almost 3 years, and I have yet to
> make it to a Brodhead fly-in. :( Probably because it's half-way across the
> country. Anyone interested in going to an East Coast Piet fly-in, please
> email me. I have talked with a couple other builders willing to help out,
> and I'd love to get one going.
>
> Richard
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ultralitght version of Piet |
In a message dated 7/13/01 3:06:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nr5a(at)actcom.net
writes:
<< I don't have that bundle. I can by the skin of my teeth afford ultralight
flying lessons tho and was suppose to solo on a Sun but on the Thursday
before I had a heart attack which ended up with a 4way by-pass operation,
and the loss of 2 1/2 toes on my right foot. Not sure but this might knock
out passing the required medicial exam for a pilot license. I do already
have the Kaw. 440 for it too, which means I only have to afford the
airframe. This list is the greatest, thanks guys.
Jerry in South Dakota >>
Ok, Jerry. No war started here. Was honest about my question.
I've been thinking, each of our circumstances are different, and what works
for
one doesn't necessarily work for another. I'm so glad you've decided to take
up flying. It does your soul good to be up with the birds, flying through the
air. I've had a private pilot license now for over 20 years, but only have
about 100hrs of flying in, mostly in the 'spam' cans, I've been interested
in building a Pietenpol since about 1978. Again, each of our circumstances
are different. Thanks for the time and glad to have met you even if for a
brief time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Ed G.) |
To the owner of Mr. Sam. I believe that's Mike Brusilow ( sp ? ) If
thats wrong I appologise . But I just realized this morning that you
are located in Saratoga Springs N,Y, I have two brothers in Saratoga
that would love to see a real live Piet, Please E-mail me at
flyboy_120(at)webtv.net If you would be willing to let my brothers have a
look. Thanks Ed G. 1 1/2 years in to my Piet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ultralight Piet flying |
Jerry,
Heart attacks sure have a way of getting your attention, and the ultralight
route would be a good approach to continued flying. So here are some ideas
for thought.
When you get to the point you can get around with no problems consider
getting a small oxygen cylinder, say about 16~18 inches long, put it in a
backpack and strap it to the back of the seat and with a nasal canula you'd
be set. The O-2 may not be needed but could help depending upon how high you
wanted to fly, and it would be a way to assuage family nay sayers.
Besides, people with by-passes usually bounce right back and have no
problems even riding bicycles let alone sitting still in a seat... in a
cockpit... flying... having a blast!
Building the plane would be more taxing than flying and you would know when
to take a break from building. Heck, I've taken so many breaks from building
that it has taken us over 10 years to get to the point where covering is
next.
Besides, I wouldn't be hesitant to associate with anyone who flew an
Ultra-Piet, or any other aerocraft either.
Rodger
Sweatin' out the drought in the Texas Hillcountry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
Looking for a float for a A-65 stromberg S3A1 carb. Is there a source for
such items anywhere on the net?
Corky in La with gasoline running out all ears of his carb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Off Topic: Vickers Vimy |
Hi guys,
The 1919 Vickers Vimy Bomber is in So. Calif. and then making its'
way to OSH.
Tonight and morning: Brackett/LaVerne
Sunday afternoon and Monday morning: FlaBob
see http://www.vimy.org for the rest of the schedule. This is a "must
see" deal if you have a chance at all.
Cheers,
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Corky, Have you tried ebay? There is usually a lot of parts listed on there.
I'll put out feelers in NW Ohio for ya,,, some one may have one.
Carl
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Parts
Pieters,
Looking for a float for a A-65 stromberg S3A1 carb. Is there a source for
such items anywhere on the net?
Corky in La with gasoline running out all ears of his carb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Cancel request for carb float made yesterday. I found one locally.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com> |
Hi Piet' lovers. I'm new to the list. I've decided to build a Piet'
instead of a KR2S. Maybe I'll do that later. In the mean time, does anyone
have a Piet'. or is building one somewhere near south-central PA? I live
about 8 miles north west of Harrisburg. I'd really like to sit in one to see
how it fits. I plan on using a corvair engine I have in it.
George Allen
GeorgeA(at)PaOnline.com
Harrisburg, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John P Moyle <jmoyle1(at)juno.com> |
All,
I am sorry to report that Piet pilot William Wynne of
Daytona Beach, Florida was injured in an off field landing
Saturday, and the aircraft appears to be a total loss after
the subsequent fire. William was airlifted by helicopter to
Tampa General Hospital where he is recovering from the
second and third degree burns suffered during the accident.
Williams Aircamper had in excess of 900 hours of
flying time behind his Corvair engine conversion, and his
Pietenpol was to be a featured aircraft at Oshkosh this
year, something I'm sure we would all have enjoyed seeing
in the Historic Aircraft Pavilion.
For anyone who would appreciate reading the Tampa
newspaper article, drop me a note at:
mailto:jmoyle1(at)juno.com
and I'll forward the web address to you........
John Moyle
Grand Aero Craft
________________________________________________________________________________
George wrote:
...does anyone have a Piet'. or is building one somewhere near
south-central PA?
George,
Central Texas is close to south-central PA, you're always welcome to drop in
for a look see at our Piet which is almost ready for covering.
You're gonna love the corvair powered Piet and the bunch here on the list
will give you all the "guidance" you may need. Now on the the "decisions",
is it raised wing or not, center "loading" flap or not, straight axel or
"improved landing gear", tail skid or tail wheel, decisions, decisions,
decisions. One thing there is no doubt about is that you'll have fun and end
up with a fine airplane.
Rodger
Still sweatin' out the drought
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: William Wynne |
| From: | KGardner(at)odu.edu |
07/16/2001 01:38:39 PM
Hi List,
John forwarded me the web address of the story about William's crash on
Saturday. Acccording to the story, William was not the pilot & the PIC gave
a statement to the authorities that the engine quit while he was making a
turn.
Apparently, the plane caught on fire after hitting the ground & aside from
bad burns it does not sound as if either William or the pilot had any
serious injuries; however William is listed in critical condition.
Having seen William's plane, I will be curious to learn what factors caused
the fire, although we all know how long it takes for NTSB to finalize an
acident report & findings. I do know that William had set up his center
section as a fuel tank by glassing the entire section (i.e. no separate
tank inside the center section). I don't know what kind of tank he had in
the nose. Witnesses stated that the plane caught fire after a nose-first
impact, so I bet something ruptured. Can't help but wonder if it was that
center section. Hopefully William will be OK, & hopefully we'll get a
definitive report on both the engine failure & fire at some point.
As an aside, I saw an article in KitPlanes several years ago about a foam
material that goes inside of the fuel tank (if I remember correctly, it
reduces fuel capacity about 10%). Apparently, this stuff holds the fuel so
that it can't quickly run out & vaporize after a rupture. Anyone know about
this & where to get it?
Regards,
Kip Gardner
Laboratory Manager
Old Dominion University
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences, Rm. 441
4600 Elkhorn Ave.
Norfolk, VA 23529
Ph: 757-683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Honor Veterans - Stop War"
(On the car of a friend who is a DFC-decorated WWII veteran)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cowling and drain grommets |
Larry,
The Piet wing has no dihedral and therefore I plan on using seaplane
grommets on both sides of each wing, aileron, and horizontyal tail rib.
although there is a draw effect to help drain moisture there's not enough
to collapse the ribs or to do any damage to the structure at all.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard deCosta <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: William Wynne |
>
>As an aside, I saw an article in KitPlanes several years ago about a foam
>material that goes inside of the fuel tank (if I remember correctly, it
>reduces fuel capacity about 10%). Apparently, this stuff holds the fuel so
>that it can't quickly run out & vaporize after a rupture. Anyone know about
>this & where to get it?
The RAF2000 gyroplane uses that kind of fuel tank. Might want to check with
them www.raf2000.com
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hofmann" <jhofmann(at)netwurx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: William Wynne |
Kip,
I remember a product marketed in the fashion named Explosafe or something
like that. It generated a lot of interest and seemed to disappear.
Hello list. Been away for a few months. Bought a new (to me) house with a
nice size garage then had to go on an extended business trip. So now I am
back in sunny Southeastern WI with a 120 year old house and a garage with a
floor drain. Gonna visit McCormicks in Madison soon and pick up some wood.
Who all on the list will be making it to Brodhead? I just live a couple
hours away so my six year old daughter and I will be trekking in on Saturday
for just the day probably. I will be brining the digital camera if anyone
wants to be enshrined in pixels.
Hope you are all well.
-john-
> As an aside, I saw an article in KitPlanes several years ago about a foam
> material that goes inside of the fuel tank (if I remember correctly, it
> reduces fuel capacity about 10%). Apparently, this stuff holds the fuel so
> that it can't quickly run out & vaporize after a rupture. Anyone know
about
> this & where to get it?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hofmann" <jhofmann(at)netwurx.net> |
Got the best of me. See their product on the web. Never used it just
remembered what it did.
-john-
http://www.explosafe.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: William Wynne |
John Hofmann observed:
> I remember a product marketed in the fashion named Explosafe or something
> like that. It generated a lot of interest and seemed to disappear.
My understanding is that it's great while it works--reduces the risk of
ignition in an accident pretty much to nothing--but eventually it gets
packed
down inside the tank and ceases to work. At that point, there is nothing
to do but open the tank and replace the old material. Don't know how
much it costs, but if the above is correct the inconvenience alone is
probably
enough to discourage most people from using it.
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Early on this product and those like it dissolved or became a bit
gummy in aircraft fuel. This may have been resolved, and it may be one
of those things that gets a "bad name" long after a solution has been found.
Cheers,
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: William Wynne |
Real problem was that it began to break up from vibration and the little
particles would then plug the fuel system, I've been told.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: William Wynne
John Hofmann observed:
> I remember a product marketed in the fashion named Explosafe or something
> like that. It generated a lot of interest and seemed to disappear.
My understanding is that it's great while it works--reduces the risk of
ignition in an accident pretty much to nothing--but eventually it gets
packed
down inside the tank and ceases to work. At that point, there is nothing
to do but open the tank and replace the old material. Don't know how
much it costs, but if the above is correct the inconvenience alone is
probably
enough to discourage most people from using it.
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: William Wynne |
Cy Galley, probably better informed than I, said:
> Real problem was that it began to break up from vibration and the little
> particles would then plug the fuel system, I've been told.
I like that even less!
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: William Wynne/Explosafe |
| From: | KGardner(at)odu.edu |
07/16/2001 05:44:10 PM
List,
Thanks for all the input on this. Sounds like one of those deals where
solving one problem creates another.
Just to stir the pot a little more, though (with the disclaimer that I may
be relying on faulty memory); I seem to recall that the product described
in KitPlanes was an open-cell polymer foam of some sort & that would go
along with what Cy is mentioning about vibration. I just looked up the
Explosafe website that John mentioned & their product is an expanded
aluminum matrix. Further, they state that it meets a Mil Spec for use in
aircraft fuel tanks. Are we discussing 2 different products or am I blowing
smoke?
I guess Wiliam's accident has focused my thinking on something that I've
been concerned about without a real good solution coming to mind. It seems
that the general ruggedness (& slow speed) of the Piet lends itself to a
high chance of walking away from an accident without major trauma injuries.
But, there is still this whole issue of fire, as William's accident
illustrates. According to the news report, both William & the PIC were able
to get out of the plane aftere the crash, but in William's case, not fast
enough to avoid getting seriously burned.
Regards,
Kip Gardner
Laboratory Manager
Old Dominion University
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences, Rm. 441
4600 Elkhorn Ave.
Norfolk, VA 23529
Ph: 757-683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Honor Veterans - Stop War"
(On the car of a friend who is a DFC-decorated WWII veteran)
cgalley(at)qcbc.org
Sent by: To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat cc:
ronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Re:
William Wynne
07/16/01 16:57
Please respond to
pietenpol-list
Real problem was that it began to break up from vibration and the little
particles would then plug the fuel system, I've been told.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fw: corvaircraft: William's Condition |
| From: | John P Moyle <jmoyle1(at)juno.com> |
Monday, July 16th, 2001
Friends,
As promised, here is the latest news regarding Pietenpol
Aircamper pilot William Wynne, whos plane was indeed lost
to fire following an emergency off field landing last Saturday in
Florida. I will provide continuous updates on his condition as
the latest becomes available to me.
The following post is a forwarded message from Patrick
Panzera, a mutual friend from the CorvAIRCRAFT group.
John Moyle
===============================CorvAIRCRAFT==============================
=
I called the hospital and spoke with William's father, Bill Sr.
Friends and family are all around, and your e-mails are reaching him.
If you've not sent a thoughtful e-mail to him, the address
jstone(at)tgh.org seems to be working. Be sure to put William Wynne C-606
in the subject.
Although he's better today than he was yesterday, he's still pretty
bad. He's awake and writing notes to his dad, and has kept his
sense of humor.
The concentration is on William getting better, not asking him
questions, so details are still not clear. But William is definitely
a hero, as he was the person in the article who aided the other
person.
http://www.sptimes.com/News/071501/TampaBay/Pilot__passenger_inju.shtml
Jim is still hospitalized with William, and has been to WW's room on
more than one occasion to thank "Billy" (as his dad calls him) for
saving his life. When Jim apologized to William, and tried to take
the blame, William wrote back, "BULLSHIT!".
It's still unclear to me as to who was sitting where, as the article
may be speculating as to who was the pilot and passenger, by their
seating position. When the craft is flown solo, it's flown from the
rear seat. The "passenger" sits on the CG. To someone unfamiliar with
this arrangement, it would be easy to assume that the "pilot" sits up
front, just like in the movies.
In any event, just know that when William saw his friend in trouble,
and he assisted, with little thought for himself. That sorta sums up
the William I call friend.
I hope to visit him as soon as he's able.
Friends mean a lot to William, and I'm sure your well wishing e-mails
and such will go along way to helping him recover.
Pat
As with any other message of mine, please pass this along to any
other e-mail lists you please.
===============================CorvAIRCRAFT==============================
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fw: corvaircraft: News from the hospital |
| From: | John P Moyle <jmoyle1(at)juno.com> |
Another piece of news regarding William Wynne.........
John Moyle
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "frosty" <frosty(at)theriver.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 15:01:13 -0700
Subject: corvaircraft: News from the hospital
Addendum to complement Pat's post:
I just talked to Grace who is at the hospital with William. While things
are tough and William was badly burned, mostly about he legs and arms, he
is expected to recover. GREAT!
I'm happy to see that there doesn't appear to be any speculation going on
within the group. Good job guys.
Initial reports - especially in aviation accidents - are seldom, if ever,
close to being correct. It appears in this case, the story reported
wasn't even in the same galaxy as the events that transpired. William and
the NTSB will sort things out and let us all know what the real story was
eventually. Until the we get the real scoop straight from them, let's
all keep up the good work, not speculate, and get those Corvair engines
flying.
Tom Graziano
Benson, Arizona
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Wilcox" <CraigWilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Curiosity.... |
We use it extensively in race cars, especially the open wheel ones. Check
some of the race car parts houses for it - generally better prices than the
aviation houses. try ioportrcing.com, racerpartswholesale.com,
simpsonraceproducts.com, e-trs.com for just a few.
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hofmann" <jhofmann(at)netwurx.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Curiosity....
>
> Got the best of me. See their product on the web. Never used it just
> remembered what it did.
>
> -john-
>
> http://www.explosafe.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | fuel tank sealers and auto fuel |
Group--While at the airport the other day I watched our
mechanics remove a fuel tank from an Acrosport II. The
alum. fuel tank was sealed with a sealer compatible with
Avgas. The owner chose to use auto fuel. The alcohol in
the auto fuel made the sealer gummy and it started to congeal
around the finger screen inside the tank. He had about 1/4" more
to go before the gummy sealer stopped his fuel flow completely.
We have seen this again and again with sealers being loosened
and gummy, with rubber fuel system parts swelling and cutting
off fuel supply, and with non-metallic needles in carbs. (ie, rubber tipped
needles.) I used a tank sealer on my aluminum nose fuel tank and
it cautioned against using automotive fuel and fortunately we have a
good supply of 80 octane. If you do choose to use a sealer there are
some (check your Wicks and or ACS catalogs for specifics) which are
resistant to auto fuel, (but none say they are impervious to auto fuel)
others do not. Another Luscombe owner on the field had similar problems
using auto fuel in his plane and could not develop full power on takeoff.
They had to tear into the entire fuel system.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hofmann" <jhofmann(at)netwurx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel tank sealers and auto fuel |
>The owner chose to use auto fuel. The alcohol in
> the auto fuel made the sealer gummy and it started to congeal
> around the finger screen inside the tank Another Luscombe owner on the
field had similar problems
> using auto fuel in his plane and could not develop full power on takeoff.
> They had to tear into the entire fuel system.
Alcohol in the fuel is a big no-no from my mechanicing days. It will destroy
the whole fuel system from the carb on back to the tank, given enough time.
There is a guy from North Dakota who flys on straight alcohol. That is great
because the fuel system is set up for it. But note if gasoline is introduced
into the system it will destroy that fuel system as well. Nothing wrong with
auto fuel, but if you have to drive to find it without alcohol then do so or
use Avgas. In Indiana I could find good fuel at Shell and Amoco very
reliably. Here in Wisconsin I saw a sign at a Beaver Dam Shell station
stating "no alcohol in our gas." Auto Fuel with MTBE as opposed to alcohol
with work too I believer. I am attaching a somewhat humorous story that
happened while I was a General Aviation A&P (not the grocery store - well
pays about the same). I posted this to the Taylorcraft group a week or so
ago.
Another thing on Explosafe and the like: Using something like that will also
limit the type of gas gauge. It would be nearly impossible to use a float
type gauge.
Now for something completely different:
A few years back I was working at a small FBO in Central Indiana at the
time. A C-150 from the other side of Indy came to take a friend of his for a
ride. He did this about once a week and the plane always looked a bit
questionable to me. One of those I swore I'd stay away from. As he was in
the pattern, I could here that only three of four were
hitting. Plane landed and taxied to the far end of the ramp. The owner knew
he had a problem and was revving and playing with the mags and mixture. I
finally walked over and asked if I could be of help. He said he had a fouled
plug after he had shut down. I told him he had more than that! I opened the
cowl and as plain as day, the #2 piston was poking through a hole in the
bottom of the jug. Well even this fine fellow figured he was grounded then.
We pulled the plane to my hangar and I started to survey the damage. I kept
finding problem after problem but the leaky carb with the funny smelling gas
was the kicker. I asked what he was using. He said, and I quote, "There is
an AD out that says I can use auto gas." I said there was an STC available
and he did not have it. He insisted he could us auto gas. I asked him where
he got it and he said it was from the Clark station down the street. That
10% ethanol blend did a real number on the fuel system. Carb was shot and so
was most everything else. It needed a complete teardown not to mention the
new jug, plus any other internal engine damageI had yet to find. I started
to mention prices for just parts and this guy went ballistic, dropping
f-words, calling me a crook etc. I thought I was being pretty reasonable
considering the shape this plane was in. Someone had recently signed an
annual on this plane and I was amazed. I figure it was a local IA who was
notorious for "Fly By" annuals. I went home that night with the plane tied
down. It was gone the next morning when I came in to work. I just hope he
did not kill anybody in it.
Irrelevent story but Mike's made me think of it. Too much hassle for a
7.00/hr job. Oh the money to be made in General
Aviation!
Be safe all!
-john-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: William Wynne crash |
Kip wrote about....
> As an aside, I saw an article in KitPlanes several years ago about a foam
> material that goes inside of the fuel tank (if I remember correctly, it
> reduces fuel capacity about 10%). Apparently, this stuff holds the fuel so
> that it can't quickly run out & vaporize after a rupture. Anyone know
about
> this & where to get it?
>
> Regards,
> Kip Gardner
This is the same foam material that has been used in race cars since a guy
named McDonnald crashed on the first lap of the Indianapolis 500 back in the
early '60's and incinerated himself. Now it is mandatory in almost every
race car throughout the world but I haven't heard much about it lately
though.
Rodger
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: corvaircraft: William's Condition |
| From: | KGardner(at)odu.edu |
07/17/2001 10:05:46 AM
John,
Thanks for keeping us updated on William's condition. And for raising the
questions about some of the accuracy of the news report.
I have come to learn that in today's world, one must apply what I call the
"80% rule" to news reports, i.e. assume that NO MORE than 80% of a given
story is accurate. I guess we'll get a more complete story once Wm.
recovers & the NTSB does it's job.
Thanks!
Kip Gardner
Laboratory Manager
Old Dominion University
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences, Rm. 441
4600 Elkhorn Ave.
Norfolk, VA 23529
Ph: 757-683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Honor Veterans - Stop War"
(On the car of a friend who is a DFC-decorated WWII veteran)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel tank sealers and auto fuel |
Your warning is some what correct. The rubber tipped needles in Stromberg
carbs WILL swell in 100 octane LL. They should have been replaced a long
time ago with either the all steel or the Delrin which requires re-weighting
the float. This is detailed in SB ACSB-34 back in 1972.
Unless a tank is leaking there is no reason for slosh or sealer. If you are
building a riveted a tank then Pro-Seal is unaffected by any fuel
component.
Some of the components of 100 LL will take the paint off your plane.
The other thing you need to check is rubber fuel lines. MIL-H-6000 hose used
with slip on fittings is known to deteriorate from the octane enhancers like
toluene in 100 LL
One should NOT use any fuel with alcohol. Its use is even prohibited in the
Auto Gas STC for certified aircraft.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank sealers and auto fuel
Group--While at the airport the other day I watched our
mechanics remove a fuel tank from an Acrosport II. The
alum. fuel tank was sealed with a sealer compatible with
Avgas. The owner chose to use auto fuel. The alcohol in
the auto fuel made the sealer gummy and it started to congeal
around the finger screen inside the tank. He had about 1/4" more
to go before the gummy sealer stopped his fuel flow completely.
We have seen this again and again with sealers being loosened
and gummy, with rubber fuel system parts swelling and cutting
off fuel supply, and with non-metallic needles in carbs. (ie, rubber tipped
needles.) I used a tank sealer on my aluminum nose fuel tank and
it cautioned against using automotive fuel and fortunately we have a
good supply of 80 octane. If you do choose to use a sealer there are
some (check your Wicks and or ACS catalogs for specifics) which are
resistant to auto fuel, (but none say they are impervious to auto fuel)
others do not. Another Luscombe owner on the field had similar problems
using auto fuel in his plane and could not develop full power on takeoff.
They had to tear into the entire fuel system.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sport Pilot News |
| From: | KGardner(at)odu.edu |
07/17/2001 11:34:38 AM
List,
I copied the information below directly from the EAA web site. The Fat Lady
still ain't sung yet, but looks like she may be fixin' to come on stage.
Keep your fingers crossed.
A GIANT STEP FORWARD FOR SPORT PILOT/LIGHT
SPORT AIRPLANE: FROM
DOT TO OMB
The EAA Government and Industry Relations
Office learned July 5 that the Sport
Pilot/Light Sport Airplane proposal has
taken another significant step: The Office of
Management and Budget (OMB) has received
the proposal from the Department of
Transportation. OMB now has up to 60 days
to review the proposal, after which time
it will be returned to the FAA for
publication as a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking
(NPRM).
"This is, we feel, the most significant
step?from the DOT to OMB," said EAA Vice
President of Govt. and Industry Relations
Earl Lawrence. DOT used only about half
its allotted 60 days to review the
proposal, thanks in part to the FAA's thorough
briefing on the matter.
Since OMB's responsibility lies not with
the substance of the proposal but with its
economic impact and potential federal
budgetary concerns, might we anticipate
some sort of huge Sport Pilot announcement
by federal officials at AirVenture later
this month?
"Yes, it is conceivable that some sort of
Sport Pilot announcement could happen,"
said Lawrence. In fact, DOT Secretary
Norman Mineta and FAA Administrator Jane
Garvey are both scheduled to be at Oshkosh
on Friday, July 27, and the annual
"Meet The Administrator" session is
scheduled for 11:30 a.m. that day in the FAA
Pavilion.
Stay tuned to the EAA website and
www.sportpilot.org for the latest information on
Sport Pilot as it progresses toward the
NPRM. And while at AirVenture, find out the
latest Sport Pilot scoop at the new EAA
Sport Pilot Center.
Kip Gardner
Laboratory Manager
Old Dominion University
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences, Rm. 441
4600 Elkhorn Ave.
Norfolk, VA 23529
Ph: 757-683-5654
Bumper Sticker of the Week:
"Honor Veterans - Stop War"
(On the car of a friend who is a DFC-decorated WWII veteran)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott and Kimala Stewart" <kstewart(at)valley2.valleyint.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 07/17/01 |
Due to finding an awesome deal on a C-85, I now have a VW 1835 engine and
accessories for sale. I don't know if I'll sell them as a package, or part
them out. Here's a list, and maybe by the end of the list, I'll make up my
mind...
The engine was originally installed on a Sonerai II, and the last annual was
done on it Aug 1, 98. I bought it in 99 when the owner upgraded to a 2180
VW on his sonerai II. I've kept it stored in my garage which is semi-climate
controlled. There is no record of the # of hours on the engine but the
annuals were done. Logs show it ran with a 43 Pitch, 52 Dia prop. I was
planning on adding a Great Plains redrive to this package, but hadn't
purchased it yet.
Item Great Plains Price My Price
VW Engine (used, have logs) $1,895.95 $850.00
Carb (new in box) $ 259.85 $200.00
Mag (used) $ 498.95 $200.00
Harness (new in box) $ 106.95 $ 85.00
20 Amp Alternator (new) $ 169.95 $140.00
Secondary Ignition (used) $ 584.95 $250.00
Prop Hub 3 deg. taper (used) $ 149.95 $ 75.00
Geared Starter (new) $ 149.95 $125.00
Deihl Accessory Case (new) $ 184.95 $150.00
Flywheel 8 dowel (used) $ 144.95 $ 75.00
Mag Drive Kit (new) $ 69.95 $ 50.00
Totals $4,216.35 $2,200.00
OK, I made up my mind. If someone is interested in the whole package, I'll
sell it for $1,750.00 or reasonable offer. On the other hand, if someone
wants parts and I don't get an offer on the whole package, I'll part it out.
Thanks,
Scott Stewart
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fw: corvaircraft: [Fwd: [Q-LIST] William Wynne and James |
Gundi]
| From: | John P Moyle <jmoyle1(at)juno.com> |
Pietenpol List Friends,
I have just received this most encouraging update. Let's
all keep William and Jim in mind, a prayer if you're so inclined
would be nice. Serious burns are the worst sort of injury, and
the recovery process can be long and painful.......thanks to
all who have sent a message of encouragement, I know it's
most appreciated.
John Moyle
--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Patrick Panzera <panzera(at)sierratel.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 20:32:58 -0700
Subject: corvaircraft: [Fwd: [Q-LIST] William Wynne and James Gundi]
===============================CorvAIRCRAFT==============================
=
>From rec.aviation.homebuilt newsgroup:
Those of you who are aware of the Piet accident
in Florida, and the heroics following, will be pleased
to know that both are off the critical list. Betsy has
just come from the hospital, & both are with friends and
family and doing as well as can be expected.
William has just had a [first] set of skin grafts. Unfortunately,
the healing process requires that both be VERY immobile for
a period of time. Anything that friends could send; cards,
anything audio, bright colors, etc. would be useful and important.
Things to occupy the mind of an immobilized patient.
Flowers are forbidden because of the risk of infection, and balloons
must be of the mylar type. I would guess that plastic items are ok,
stuffed animals probably not as there is risk of infection.
They are in beds C604(James) and C606 (William)
in the ICU/Burn Unit at Tampa General Hospital.
Davis Islands
PO Box 1289
Tampa, Florida 33601
Hospital phone (patient representation) (813)251-7249
===============================CorvAIRCRAFT==============================
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LanhamOS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Off Topic: Vickers Vimy |
As of yesterday (18 July), the Vimy was groudned in Mesa. BMW has an
injunction. They don't want the plane flying in the US with their engines.
This news was given to me by the Mid Iowa EAA Chapter 456. Hope the legal
eagles can keep it flying.
Dr. Orville Lanham, Aviation History, Bellevue, Ne.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | William Wynne update |
| From: | John P Moyle <jmoyle1(at)juno.com> |
Piet List Friends,
Here is a note from a friend of William and Jim.
John Moyle
In a message dated 7/19/01 7:13:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Visionflyr(at)aol.com writes:
<< Subj: Re: Vision-Builder: William Wynne update
Date: 7/19/01 7:13:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: Visionflyr(at)aol.com
I spent a couple hours with William and Jim last night although I doubt
William will remember. Jim is fairly cheerful but, like any pilot,
tearing
himself up running things over and over. I did get one thing wrong in my
understanding and that is that William lifted the wing off and the fire
blew
up and blew him back about 30 feet. It was then Jim that got out and
covered
William who was in flames. They both really saved eachother. The ironic
thing was that Jim pointed out that without a fire they would have been
having lunch a half hour later as they didn't get hurt at all.
William's face looks pretty good and is appearing to be 100% 1st degree
in
that area. He will probably heal quite handsomely as though he just had a
face lift or dermabrasion. Legs and arms were grafted yesterday and it
will
be a while before results can be seen. He has to stay in compression
bandages for a while to keep swelling down.
They are really not allowing anything in the room. I understand that he
can
see flowers that are sent but access to the area is very sterile and only
two
people (that's his girlfriend Grace and 1 other right now for the most
part)
are allowed in with gloves and gowns. There really isn't any
conversation
but William does understand what is going on but forgets quickly. Jim is
completely coherent and talkative. Jim will probably be out of ICU in a
few
days.
Tony Arnaoutis who is our Vision builder that is doing the 4 place plane
is
a
physical therapist who did a lot burn work over the years. He was able
to
look at the charts and talk to the staff. The outlook is good but they
will
both be in for a lot of therapy. There will probably be some sort of
fund
set up to help at some future date. Things are pretty well up in the air
for
what happens after the next few weeks. I will try to get back over
toward
the end of next week or on the weekend.
I tried to convey everyone's messages although I have received so many
that
I
just said that about 170 of the 186 Vision builders sent their best
wishes.
He asked me "which ones and what did they say?" It was very hard to see
but
our friends are on the way back.
Steve >>
From: Visionflyr(at)aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:20:52 EDT
Subject: Re: Vision-Builder: William Wynne update
I spent a couple hours with William and Jim last night although I doubt
William will remember. Jim is fairly cheerful but, like any pilot, tearing
himself up running things over and over. I did get one thing wrong in my
understanding and that is that William lifted the wing off and the fire blew
up and blew him back about 30 feet. It was then Jim that got out and covered
William who was in flames. They both really saved eachother. The ironic
thing was that Jim pointed out that without a fire they would have been
having lunch a half hour later as they didn't get hurt at all.
William's face looks pretty good and is appearing to be 100% 1st degree in
that area. He will probably heal quite handsomely as though he just had a
face lift or dermabrasion. Legs and arms were grafted yesterday and it will
be a while before results can be seen. He has to stay in compression
bandages for a while to keep swelling down.
They are really not allowing anything in the room. I understand that he can
see flowers that are sent but access to the area is very sterile and only two
people (that's his girlfriend Grace and 1 other right now for the most part)
are allowed in with gloves and gowns. There really isn't any conversation
but William does understand what is going on but forgets quickly. Jim is
completely coherent and talkative. Jim will probably be out of ICU in a few
days.
Tony Arnaoutis who is our Vision builder that is doing the 4 place plane is a
physical therapist who did a lot burn work over the years. He was able to
look at the charts and talk to the staff. The outlook is good but they will
both be in for a lot of therapy. There will probably be some sort of fund
set up to help at some future date. Things are pretty well up in the air for
what happens after the next few weeks. I will try to get back over toward
the end of next week or on the weekend.
I tried to convey everyone's messages although I have received so many that I
just said that about 170 of the 186 Vision builders sent their best wishes.
He asked me "which ones and what did they say?" It was very hard to see but
our friends are on the way back.
Steve
I spent a couple hours with William and Jim last night although I doubt
William will remember. Jim is fairly cheerful but, like any pilot, tearing
himself up running things over and over. I did get one thing wrong in my
understanding and that is that William lifted the wing off and the fire blew
up and blew him back about 30 feet. It was then Jim that got out and covered
William who was in flames. They both really saved eachother. The ironic
thing was that Jim pointed out that without a fire they would have been
having lunch a half hour later as they didn't get hurt at all.
William's face looks pretty good and is appearing to be 100% 1st degree in
that area. He will probably heal quite handsomely as though he just had a
face lift or dermabrasion. Legs and arms were grafted yesterday and it will
be a while before results can be seen. He has to stay in compression
bandages for a while to keep swelling down.
They are really not allowing anything in the room. I understand that he can
see flowers that are sent but access to the area is very sterile and only two
people (that's his girlfriend Grace and 1 other right now for the most part)
are allowed in with gloves and gowns. There really isn't any conversation
but William does understand what is going on but forgets quickly. Jim is
completely coherent and talkative. Jim will probably be out of ICU in a few
days.
Tony Arnaoutis who is our Vision builder that is doing the 4 place plane is a
physical therapist who did a lot burn work over the years. He was able to
look at the charts and talk to the staff. The outlook is good but they will
both be in for a lot of therapy. There will probably be some sort of fund
set up to help at some future date. Things are pretty well up in the air for
what happens after the next few weeks. I will try to get back over toward
the end of next week or on the weekend.
I tried to convey everyone's messages although I have received so many that I
just said that about 170 of the 186 Vision builders sent their best wishes.
He asked me "which ones and what did they say?" It was very hard to see but
our friends are on the way back.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Off Topic: Vickers Vimy |
In a message dated 7/19/2001 10:22:05 AM Central Daylight Time,
LanhamOS(at)aol.com writes:
>
> As of yesterday (18 July), the Vimy was groudned in Mesa. BMW has an
> injunction. They don't want the plane flying in the US with their engines.
>
Well, I guess they wouldn't want me to be driving with the BMW engine so I'll
not bother them about a new car. Presently shopping and that one's off the
list.
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Off Topic: Vickers Vimy |
Tom,
I think MAYBE some real Americans are beginning to realize whats been
happening to them, for many reasons, during the last 50 years. Time to get a
little tough and spriited.
Corky in La waiting for the South to rise again
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LanhamOS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: William Wynne update |
Thanks for the update. Will remember them in daily prayers.
Dr. Orville Lanham
Bellevue, Ne.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fw: corvaircraft: William Wynne update |
| From: | John P Moyle <jmoyle1(at)juno.com> |
Piet List Friends,
I am forwarding this e-mail from Williams close friend
Pat Panzera, who I am proud to call a friend of mine as well.
Patrick is attempting to assist the family of William Wynne
whose efforts to "be there" for William during this difficult
time are no doubt costly. Who needs to worry about money
at a time like this ??
The ground swell of support from his friends nearby in
Florida has been wonderful, and hopefully they can help keep
the business side of things together while he is recovering
from the accident. Pat Panzera is determined to keep the fire
burning on the Corvaircraft front, as am I. When William is
restored to good health we'd all like to see him back in his
shop, doing what he does best, supporting those of us who
wish to put these superb little GM boxer engines into our
experimental aircraft projects.
I will continue to post updates as they become available.
John Moyle
--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Pat Panzera <panzera(at)sierratel.com>
Dragonlist ,
"VW(at)lists.kz" , "QBA(at)lists.kz"
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:31:06 -0700
Subject: corvaircraft: William Wynne update
===============================CorvAIRCRAFT==============================
=
Friends,
I spoke with Steve Rahm ( owner-visionbuilder(at)listserv.usm.edu ) of
American Affordable
Aircraft ( http://www.visionaircraft.com/ ) earlier today. He's a
close friend of WW's and
all but hanger mates.
He has possession of William's mailbox key and for the moment, between
he and Kevin,
they'll be filling orders, specifically Prop Hubs, Manuals, Hybrid
Studs, and Points Plates.
These items I know William has plenty of stock. Points Plates may get
to be a drag, as
William has dozens of them, none of which have the nut plate riveted in
place, so filling
these orders will mean that Kevin will have to assembly them before
shipping. If you have
the ability to countersink the pre drilled holes, and squeeze 4 rivets
through 2 nut plates,
when you place your order, request that the parts be shipped
unassembled.
William is getting better, but he's still not out of the woods. As I
said to Steve, I'm
going to treat William's condition as a "momentary setback" and try to
keep the momentum
rolling, so when William is ready to get back to it, things will still
be in place. With
that in mind I'll reiterate my previous plea for orders to continue.
Selling the manual
and his specialty parts is his only source of income.
On another note, I'm setting up a trust fund for William and his family
to, help offset some
of their expenses. William's family is at his side, and although their
only concern is William
getting better, the reality of it is, it costs money to be away from
home. I believe that
they traveled from New Jersey to Florida, and it can't be cheap to
travel at a moment's
notice, set up lodging, dine out, and have a rental car.
I've received countless private e-mails from some very fine
individuals, expressing a
desire to contribute in a financial way. Not knowing all the needs of
the family right now,
I figure that we can at least assist in such a way that William's family
won't need to worry
about running out of money during their out of town stay, or not having
money to fly back
home for a day or two to retrieve necessary items or take care of their
business, not to
mention any loss of income, etc. Our contributions can make this
happen for them.
I'll have more specifics on the trust by tomorrow.
I'd like thank everyone for their concerns, prayers, cards and
letters.
Keep them all coming.
William's mailing address is:
William Wynne C/O
Tampa General Hospital Room C-606
P.O. Box 1289
Davis Island
Tampa Florida 33601
Please send him a card or letter if you've not done so already.
Thanks!
Pat
And as usual, please forward this note to any and all applicable e-mail
lists.
===============================CorvAIRCRAFT==============================
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Curiosity.... |
What that material does is preventing explosion from
impact, remember that the race cars use special (and
more explosive) fuels, but in our case, if the tank
brakes, the fuel will drip out the same...
So hope it does not happen to any of us, and remember:
Keep calm and FLY THE AIRPLANE ALL THE WAY DOWN,
preventing stall/spin is the only solution.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Jeffrey Wilcox wrote:
> Wilcox"
>
> We use it extensively in race cars, especially the
> open wheel ones. Check
> some of the race car parts houses for it - generally
> better prices than the
> aviation houses. try ioportrcing.com,
> racerpartswholesale.com,
> simpsonraceproducts.com, e-trs.com for just a few.
>
> Craig
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Hofmann" <jhofmann(at)netwurx.net>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 5:50 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Curiosity....
>
>
> Hofmann"
>
> >
> > Got the best of me. See their product on the web.
> Never used it just
> > remembered what it did.
> >
> > -john-
> >
> > http://www.explosafe.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Off Topic: Vickers Vimy |
That is a shame!!
I will not buy a BMW next year... I hate brands that
not respect aviation.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- LanhamOS(at)aol.com wrote:
> LanhamOS(at)aol.com
>
> As of yesterday (18 July), the Vimy was groudned
> in Mesa. BMW has an
> injunction. They don't want the plane flying in the
> US with their engines.
> This news was given to me by the Mid Iowa EAA
> Chapter 456. Hope the legal
> eagles can keep it flying.
> Dr. Orville Lanham, Aviation History, Bellevue, Ne.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LanhamOS(at)aol.com |
As of 20 July, 1845 the injunction against the Vimy's trip to Oshkosh has
been lifted. Flight plan calls for 10 hr. days, weather permitting. The Pella
Iowa folks are expecting the plane Sunday afternoon. ETA is at Oshkosh on
Monday.
Further litigation may be coming however. Blut, we are thankful the trip can
proceed. This message came to me from EAA Chapter 456.
Dr. Orville Lanham
Aviation Hisotry
Bellevue,Ne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomSpeir(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: re: Vimy Update |
I don't understand the BMW/Vimy issue. As far as I know,
BMW no longer makes or markets aircraft engines under their name, so why are
they even in the picture?
tom in Hotlana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: re: Vimy Update |
Tom,
go to
http://www.vimy.org
and read about the plane. Check also the National Geographic magazine
and PBS specials. BMW is one of the origional sponsors when this plane
was in England. They contributed the V12 engines for the trip to both
Australia and South Africa. There concern is with the American Trial
Lawyers Association, who can and will sue anyone for anything anytime.
It is all liability bookie bets that are driving this. They are now on
the record as having given fair warning that they are not responsible..
Cheers,
Warren
TomSpeir(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> I don't understand the BMW/Vimy issue. As far as I know,
> BMW no longer makes or markets aircraft engines under their name, so why are
> they even in the picture?
>
>
> tom in Hotlana
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomSpeir(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: re: Vimy Update |
I thought it must be something along those lines. When I
saw the program on PBS, I guess the part about BMW contributing the engines
slipped by me. Thanks for clearing this up for me and I understand their
concern.
tom in not-to-Hotlana today
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: re: Vimy Update |
Hmmm......kinda reminds me why I won't do annuals and have given up trying
for my DAR. Tort Reform? Frivolous lawsuit legislation? Write your
Congressman! (That is if you can catch he/her when he's/she's not out
committing adultery or some other immoral/illegal act on OUR dollar).
Sorry, but thanks, every once in a while, we all need a soapbox, and I
probably should not have made this wonderful list mine.
Chris House
Smilin' cause I flew the Waco a whole bunch this week, even if it was over
100 degrees each time. (It's too hot ta be gluing ribs , ya know)
----- Original Message -----
From: Warren D. Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
BMW is one of the origional sponsors when this plane
> was in England. They contributed the V12 engines for the trip to both
> Australia and South Africa. There concern is with the American Trial
> Lawyers Association, who can and will sue anyone for anything anytime.
> It is all liability bookie bets that are driving this.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Dear Pieters'
At the wedding of my INCONSIDERATE granddaughter my bumper sticker read:
I'D RATHER BE AT BRODHEAD
Corky back in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: corvaircraft: Re: [Dragonflylist] William Wynne update |
| From: | John P Moyle <jmoyle1(at)juno.com> |
Piet list friends,
I am forwarding this post from Williams Wynnes pal
Pat Panzera, who has established a fund to which those
who might wish to assist a fellow airmans plight may use
to make a contribution. I assure you that every dollar will
get to Williams family.
Also a second post from Williams lady Grace Ellen,
which details another route which will direct help to William.
Thanks to all for your concern and assistance.
John Moyle
--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Pat Panzera <panzera(at)sierratel.com>
"AirVW(at)yahoogroups.com"
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:46:30 -0700
Subject: corvaircraft: Re: [Dragonflylist] William Wynne update
===============================CorvAIRCRAFT==============================
=
Pat Panzera wrote:
> I'll have more specifics on the trust by tomorrow.
Ok, here are the specifics.
The outpouring of concern for William and the offers to help have been
overwhelming. Our community in general is outstanding!
Anyway, I have a trust set up for William now, so we have a way to
collect contributions and get them to William's family.
The check should be made out to:
"For the benefit of William Wynne"
You can send it to:
For the benefit of William Wynne
C/O Pat Panzera
P.O. Box 1382
Hanford CA 93232-1382
If it helps at all, I can accept PayPal to my e-mail address
panzera(at)sierratel.com too.
Please include a note for William, and I'll forward it.
For what it's worth, anyone who contributes to this effort, will
receive
a discounted price for the purchase of the Corvair Video currently in
production.
Comments and suggestions are welcomed, as are requests for specific use
of your contribution. As an example, one gentleman asked if he could
pay
William's hanger rent for a few months, another wanted his contribution
to
go to replacing the Piet, and another wanted his contribution shared
with
Jim's family.
Anyway, thanks ever so much for all your generosity!
Pat
And as usual, please forward this note.
===============================CorvAIRCRAFT==============================
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fw: corvaircraft: Thank you again. |
| From: | John P Moyle <jmoyle1(at)juno.com> |
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: WilliamTCA(at)aol.com
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:49:26 EDT
Subject: corvaircraft: Thank you again.
Thanks again on behalf of William and his family to all who've sent
cards,
letters and well wishes to Tampa General Hospital. Please keep them
coming.
For those who've offered to help with the mounting costs that insurance
won't
cover, a fund has been established. Please make checks payable to:
William E. Wynne Assistance Fund
endorse them Deposit to Account #1010050910825
and drop them at any First Union or First Fidelity Bank or mail them to
First Union Port Orange Financial Center
3860 S. Nova Road, FL 2336
Port Orange, FL 32127
William's making progress each day, but is expected to stay in the ICU
burn
unit at least two more weeks. They seem to say that every week, though.
Please pass the news along to any other aircraft lists you subscribe to.
Thank you.
Grace Ellen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hofmann" <jhofmann(at)netwurx.net> |
The six year old and I weathered the heat and humidity for a few hours on
Saturday. It was nice to meet a few from this list while there. We stayed as
long as my little redhead could stand it. She is a real trooper. Yesterday
at Oshkosh she was on her back under the belly of a Great Lakes wiping off
oil mist. How is that for a good kid?
If anyone would like, I can post my Brodhead pictures on the web in the next
couple of days. They are pretty general but you can get the flavor of the
event.
TakeCare,
-john-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry D. Morgan, Sr., MCP" <mrfixit(at)accessunited.com> |
Yes, Yes, Yes... I was supposed to go this year, but my company had other
plans, so I think allot of us would like to see what we're missing...
Terry Morgan,
Thomaston, Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Hofmann
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead
The six year old and I weathered the heat and humidity for a few hours on
Saturday. It was nice to meet a few from this list while there. We stayed as
long as my little redhead could stand it. She is a real trooper. Yesterday
at Oshkosh she was on her back under the belly of a Great Lakes wiping off
oil mist. How is that for a good kid?
If anyone would like, I can post my Brodhead pictures on the web in the next
couple of days. They are pretty general but you can get the flavor of the
event.
TakeCare,
-john-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
John,
If you could post them, that would be great!
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hofmann" <jhofmann(at)netwurx.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead
>
> The six year old and I weathered the heat and humidity for a few hours on
> Saturday. It was nice to meet a few from this list while there. We stayed
as
> long as my little redhead could stand it. She is a real trooper. Yesterday
> at Oshkosh she was on her back under the belly of a Great Lakes wiping off
> oil mist. How is that for a good kid?
>
> If anyone would like, I can post my Brodhead pictures on the web in the
next
> couple of days. They are pretty general but you can get the flavor of the
> event.
>
> TakeCare,
> -john-
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: re: Vimy Update |
Chris,
Why apologize to this group? If not this group, then who is going to be
interested? If we sit back on our hands and let this stuff go without
comment we will wake up some day and find no airports that will let us land,
no insurance company that will cover us and no aviation companies that will
sell us supplies. Get back on that soap box and get this group stirred up.
Then they will get on their soap boxes and get others to listen. That's how
it is done. Remember Coca Cola? How long did they stick with their new and
"improved" version? It can be done.
One of the first things that has to happen is to get the FAA off our backs
with all their micro managing of all aspects of aviation. When they run
around talking about "zero accidents" like Pena did a couple of years ago,
that sets an impossible standard that the trial lawyers parade around in
court. The juries have no choice but use it to measure fault. Guess what
the outcome is.
Here, I'll let you have your soap box back....
Ted Brousseau
Naples, FL
30PP/GN-1 & 922TT/Pietenpol
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: re: Vimy Update
>
> Hmmm......kinda reminds me why I won't do annuals and have given up trying
> for my DAR. Tort Reform? Frivolous lawsuit legislation? Write your
> Congressman! (That is if you can catch he/her when he's/she's not out
> committing adultery or some other immoral/illegal act on OUR dollar).
>
> Sorry, but thanks, every once in a while, we all need a soapbox, and I
> probably should not have made this wonderful list mine.
>
> Chris House
> Smilin' cause I flew the Waco a whole bunch this week, even if it was over
> 100 degrees each time. (It's too hot ta be gluing ribs , ya know)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Warren D. Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
>
> BMW is one of the origional sponsors when this plane
> > was in England. They contributed the V12 engines for the trip to both
> > Australia and South Africa. There concern is with the American Trial
> > Lawyers Association, who can and will sue anyone for anything anytime.
> > It is all liability bookie bets that are driving this.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: re: Vimy Update |
| From: | KGardner(at)odu.edu |
07/25/2001 10:15:09 AM
Group,
Yes, this whole issue is of concern to the aviation community, and I am as
unhappy as anyone about lawsuits or threats of lawsuits that have no merit
& put what the legal types call a 'chilling effect' on activities that
otherwise would be viewed as normal. HOWEVER, if you write your
Congressman, please be aware of a couple of things:
1.) Most large awards for so-called frivolous claims are overturned on
appeal to a higher court, but the newspapers almost never report this (no
news 'value' & the corporate entities that now control the news want to
keep the public stirred up on this issue).
2.) The 'favored' Tort reform measure currently before Congress will
basically strip away the rights of all but the wealthiest individuals (NOT
me, for instance) from bringing a suit to redress a real grievance. They do
this by making the loser responsible for both parties' legal costs,
REGARDLESS of the merits of the original claim. This means that large
entities can intimidate people merely by threating to rack up absolutely
ruinous legal fees that the large entities can easily afford. A better
solution would be to have a panel of judges decide, AFTER a verdict and
appeals, who is responsible for the fees. Some Congresspersons are trying
to push this alternative, but so far have been blocked by others whose are
beholden to corporations.
3.) Part of this problem would go away if Congress would fund an adequate
number of judgships and their supporting staff, infrastructure, etc. The
inability of the system to provide speedy resolution to claims makes a lot
of frivolous lawsuits drag on ad infinitum. The cost to adequately fund an
expanded federal judiciary is about equal to 2 or 3 B-2 bombers.
4.) Don't forget that the original intent of liability lawsuits is to allow
redress for real wrongs done to someone by someone else. Like freedom of
expression, this is a right we should not be too eager to throw away
without carefully looking at who would benefit the most & who would lose
the most if it was gone. It is a sad reality in today's world that rights
surrendered are only rewon by extrordinary effort, if at all, even in a
democracy.
I've said more than enough, but this is an issue that I feel has been
grossly oversimplified by an irresponsible press hyping a number of
spectacular examples of frivolity & legal greed (which I admit is real &
could also use fixing) - so I'm ready to get back to the real purpose of
this group - building & flying Piets.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
Laboratory Manager
Old Dominion University
Dept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences, Rm. 441
4600 Elkhorn Ave.
Norfolk, VA 23529
June 12, 2001 - July 25, 2001
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ca