Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-cf
December 13, 2001 - January 04, 2002
Kip,
Get the biggest vise you can. Make new jaws like the man said. I have the
Chink 6 incher that is black crinckle paint from home depot and it woks (I
mean works) good.
chris
----- Original Message -----
| From: | "Kip & Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Power tool advice |
>
> Hi List,
>
> Well, now that I've gone & 'got married' by running off with someone
else's
> partially complete project, I'm starting to think about getting my
workshop
> set up, something I thought I could put off until we were more settled in
> the new house, but now has a little more urgency.
>
> So, I'd like some advice about tools, mostly power tools; I have a good
> selection of power & non-power hand tools & non-power woodworking tools.
> Took a look at a few things at ye olde Home Depot today that got the brain
> turning. I am assuming the following are helpful, if not essential, any
> comments?
>
> 1.) A good vise for bending fittings, etc. - how big is big enough?
>
> 2.) Drill press - HD had a 10" Ryobi benchtop model with 1/2" chuck for
> about $100.00 - big enough/good enough?
>
> 3.) Table saw - based on comments on the list in the past few weeks,
sounds
> like a real useful item. HD had a 10", 15amp Skil for about $200. Comments
> on size or other considerations?
>
> 4.) Bandsaw - Again, sounds real useful. Anyone have any feelings about
the
> minimum useful throat height &/or other considerations? HD was selling a
> Delta with 10" throat for $300.
>
> Any other big-ticket tool items that people have found that they can't
live
> without?
>
> Thanks one & All!
>
> Kip Gardner (off to my first EAA chapter meeting since landing in OH)
>
>
> 426 Schneider St. SE
> North Canton, OH 44720
> (330) 494-1775
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
Okay,
You guys got me again, what's a compass?
Do they come with USB ports or is this a serial device???
Larry
;-)
"Ed G." wrote:
>
> Interesting!! I've heard of a degausser but never knew what they
> actually were. Will it actualy demagnatize ferrus metals?
> If so that's pretty amazing. Ed G.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
Larry,
A compass is a thing you use in grade school to make circles with.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Neal" <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
>
> Okay,
>
> You guys got me again, what's a compass?
> Do they come with USB ports or is this a serial device???
>
> Larry
> ;-)
>
>
> "Ed G." wrote:
>
> >
> > Interesting!! I've heard of a degausser but never knew what they
> > actually were. Will it actualy demagnatize ferrus metals?
> > If so that's pretty amazing. Ed G.
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fishin" <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | covering the Piet |
Hey Corky, you asked about materials needed to complete the covering.
Here is what Poly-Fiber
states in their book for the Piet;
fabric---32 yds
poly brush--6 gal
poly spray (silver)--8 gal
poly tak (cement)--2 qt
poly fiber reducer--3 gal
finishing tape (50 yd rl)--1 rl 1"
finishing tape (50 yd rl)--4 rl 2"
rib lacing cord-- 1 spl
reinforcing tape-- 1 rl 1/2"
poly tone finish color--8 gal
hope this list offers some help
regards
JoeC N99621
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
Thanks Chris,
That explains why my cross-countries always circle back to the takeoff point!
Larry
Stick+Rudder-+Compass+Brains=Pilot ;-)
Christian Bobka wrote:
>
> Larry,
>
> A compass is a thing you use in grade school to make circles with.
>
> Chris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Neal" <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
>
> >
> > Okay,
> >
> > You guys got me again, what's a compass?
> > Do they come with USB ports or is this a serial device???
> >
> > Larry
> > ;-)
> >
> >
> > "Ed G." wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Interesting!! I've heard of a degausser but never knew what they
> > > actually were. Will it actualy demagnatize ferrus metals?
> > > If so that's pretty amazing. Ed G.
> > >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fishin" <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power tool advice |
be sure to add a combination belt & disc sander. you won't be sorry
JoeC
-----Original Message-----
From: Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Power tool advice
>
>Hi List,
>
>Well, now that I've gone & 'got married' by running off with someone else's
>partially complete project, I'm starting to think about getting my workshop
>set up, something I thought I could put off until we were more settled in
>the new house, but now has a little more urgency.
>
>So, I'd like some advice about tools, mostly power tools; I have a good
>selection of power & non-power hand tools & non-power woodworking tools.
>Took a look at a few things at ye olde Home Depot today that got the brain
>turning. I am assuming the following are helpful, if not essential, any
>comments?
>
>1.) A good vise for bending fittings, etc. - how big is big enough?
>
>2.) Drill press - HD had a 10" Ryobi benchtop model with 1/2" chuck for
>about $100.00 - big enough/good enough?
>
>3.) Table saw - based on comments on the list in the past few weeks, sounds
>like a real useful item. HD had a 10", 15amp Skil for about $200. Comments
>on size or other considerations?
>
>4.) Bandsaw - Again, sounds real useful. Anyone have any feelings about the
>minimum useful throat height &/or other considerations? HD was selling a
>Delta with 10" throat for $300.
>
>Any other big-ticket tool items that people have found that they can't live
>without?
>
>Thanks one & All!
>
>Kip Gardner (off to my first EAA chapter meeting since landing in OH)
>
>
>426 Schneider St. SE
>North Canton, OH 44720
>(330) 494-1775
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Power tool advice |
Again, kip, the Harbor Frieght 6 x 48 belt and 9 inch disc combo is usually
about 179 including shipping. They also have pretty good belts cheap. Get
the 80 and 60 even 40 grit for polishing edges (hold edge legthwise to the
belt motion.
Use elmers white glue to glue the disc to the back plate. That wasy you can
soak it in water and it will come right off when it is time to change it.
Chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "fishin" <fishin(at)wwa.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Power tool advice
>
> be sure to add a combination belt & disc sander. you won't be sorry
> JoeC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:19 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Power tool advice
>
>
>
> >
> >Hi List,
> >
> >Well, now that I've gone & 'got married' by running off with someone
else's
> >partially complete project, I'm starting to think about getting my
workshop
> >set up, something I thought I could put off until we were more settled in
> >the new house, but now has a little more urgency.
> >
> >So, I'd like some advice about tools, mostly power tools; I have a good
> >selection of power & non-power hand tools & non-power woodworking tools.
> >Took a look at a few things at ye olde Home Depot today that got the
brain
> >turning. I am assuming the following are helpful, if not essential, any
> >comments?
> >
> >1.) A good vise for bending fittings, etc. - how big is big enough?
> >
> >2.) Drill press - HD had a 10" Ryobi benchtop model with 1/2" chuck for
> >about $100.00 - big enough/good enough?
> >
> >3.) Table saw - based on comments on the list in the past few weeks,
sounds
> >like a real useful item. HD had a 10", 15amp Skil for about $200.
Comments
> >on size or other considerations?
> >
> >4.) Bandsaw - Again, sounds real useful. Anyone have any feelings about
the
> >minimum useful throat height &/or other considerations? HD was selling a
> >Delta with 10" throat for $300.
> >
> >Any other big-ticket tool items that people have found that they can't
live
> >without?
> >
> >Thanks one & All!
> >
> >Kip Gardner (off to my first EAA chapter meeting since landing in OH)
> >
> >
> >426 Schneider St. SE
> >North Canton, OH 44720
> >(330) 494-1775
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
I also use the compass only as a reference, no bother
if it is not "taht accurate", but I have read that a
compass can be compensated with two bolts they have in
the case...
When the plane is pointing directly to North, just
move the adjuster until the compas points North...
Maybe I am not correct, never done it, but read about
it some time ago.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Ed Grentzer wrote:
>
>
>
> I did think of mounting it in the trailing edge of
> the wing but to be
> honest I've never even sat in a real live Piet and
> don't know if I could see
> it up there ( my center section isn't done yet). I
> had also thought of
> mounting my radio in the c/s cut out but don't know
> if you could see it or
> reach it from sitting in the cockpit. I was going to
> try to wait until after
> the c/s and cabanes were in place to try it because
> the radio that I would
> "like" to use is too deep to fit in the panel (
> around my area, under Tampa
> class B, a radio is a must).
> A DE-MAGNETIZER ??? I been to 27 County fairs and
> ain't never heard of
> nothin' like that!!! I did notice that Allan Wise's
> Piet from Orlando Fl.
> has a wooden stick and wooden cabane struts. I
> wonder if that is why???
> Thanks for the responses Ed G.
>
> >From: "John Hofmann" <jhofmann(at)charter.net>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
> >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:56:38 -0600
> >
> Hofmann"
> >
> >Ed,
> >Ever thought of mounting it in the trailing edge of
> the wing? Viable option
> >in my humble opinion.
> >
> >-john-
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks for the input guys...the control stick
> thing was really
> >interesting
> > > Jack. I guess a compass doesn't have much of a
> chance with the control
> > > stick, airleron cables, cabane struts, electric
> etc. I guess I'll just
> >stick
> > > it in the panel to make the FAA guys happy and
> buy a good GPS. Have a
> >great
> > > holiday season. Ed G.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
> http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
Chris,
Now THAT is a compass explanation that I LIKE!!
A compass in a Piet - Since it's required, maybe just put it where it helps
your W&B the most!! Hey, Maybe I've hit on something - Put ALL the
instruments in the front pit, that might help W&B some!!
Gary M.
Spring, TX.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
>
> Larry,
>
> A compass is a thing you use in grade school to make circles with.
>
> Chris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Neal" <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
>
>
> >
> > Okay,
> >
> > You guys got me again, what's a compass?
> > Do they come with USB ports or is this a serial device???
> >
> > Larry
> > ;-)
> >
> >
> > "Ed G." wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Interesting!! I've heard of a degausser but never knew what they
> > > actually were. Will it actualy demagnatize ferrus metals?
> > > If so that's pretty amazing. Ed G.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
Thanks to those that shared their experiences with compass deviation
it's something I haven't done before and didn't want to mess it up.
To those that care to make fun of my post you need to sit back and
think about what this list is all about. Maybe you should start your
own list.I have some suggestions as to what you could name it but
can't put them on my company's computer. Thanks to all who have
helped me with information over the last two years. In the future I
will figure out my own problems or e-mail the real people
that I have met from the list personally. Ed G.
>From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:44:28 -0600
>
>
>Okay,
>
>You guys got me again, what's a compass?
>Do they come with USB ports or is this a serial device???
>
>Larry
>;-)
>
>
>"Ed G." wrote:
>
> >
> > Interesting!! I've heard of a degausser but never knew what they
> > actually were. Will it actualy demagnatize ferrus metals?
> > If so that's pretty amazing. Ed G.
> >
>
>
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lutz Gebhardt <gebhardt(at)iag.uni-stuttgart.de> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
Hi Ed,
I wouldn't take those comments neither too personal nor too serious. In general
I don't post to the list, but I have been subscribed to it for many years now
already - back to when it was on another server and administered by Steve
Eldredge. The tone has always been rather polite and helpful, without the
flaming and what-else-do I know now so prevalent in many Usenet groups.
So just look beyond it, ignore the occasional sarcasm and keep reading and
posting. Remember - there are no dumb questions, just dumb answers ...
Best Regards,
Lutz
(Stuttgart, Germany)
--
1962 Jodel DR.1050 Ambassadeur D-EHIE s/n 291 'Heidi'
<http://www.jodel.com/~lutz/>
lutz(at)jodel.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power tool advice |
I'm going to diaviate from the group here... I hate bandsaws. They are slow
and, unless they have a perfect blade, leave a rough cut in wood. To me,
they are a speciality tool for cutting curves, not a replacement for the
good-old table saw. (This is my OPINION, please let's not start a huge
debate over this)
The Home Depot table Skil table saw that you saw for $200 is the same saw as
the Craftsman or the no names that you get at the import tool stores: 12"
table saw with aluminum top, plastic base, left-hand tilt, plastic miter
gage, a thin aluminum formed fence, and direct drive motor. (I'm sure they
all come from the same factory in Asia). Typically, they are $150 with the
stand, I saw one at Rural King (local farm supply store) for $119 yesterday.
It requires some tuning periodically. I've had it for five years and it
works ADAQUATELY but doesn't make me real happy. I did find it's limitation
while building an entertainment center (beyond only 11" of fence on the
right side and 11-1/2" on the left, regardless of what the markings show).
The aluminum fence is flexible and can be warped when pushing against it.
Even with a clamp on the backside, this can cause a 1/64" error. No big
deal most of the time except when you are trying to cut two-pass slots for
panels (plywood, not instrument) and the groove is inconsistant. I'm
holding out for the $1500 one with the 50" fence!
The bench sander is a necessity. I've got the small Craftsman $100 one.
The larger ones didn't provide me any more benefit and the belts are more
expensive and harder to find. I had a really big one at my cabinet shop and
it wasn't any more accurate or well built. I could, however, grind down a
2x4. :)
Robert Haines
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power tool advice |
Kip,
A 10 inch power miter saw with a GOOD blade is useful.
The recommendations on getting the biggest grinder you can afford is good advice.
I have an 8 inch Craftsman that works well for my needs.
I highly recommend getting a 3M scotchbrite polishing wheel for your grinder. This
works better than anything I've tried for polishing the edges of metal prior
to bending. They run about $40-50 but are well worth it.
A benchtop belt sander is another great tool. I use a 6X48.
Most people are happy with the $200.00 HF band saws. Occasionally these will be
on sale for $139.00.
I have a 16 inch, 1hp, floor stand drill press from HF. On sale for 179.00. Very
pleased for that price.
Get lots of clamps. Spring clamps, C-clamps, pipe clamps and make clamps out of
PVC pipe. Cut it into rings then slice one edge so you can open it into a "C".
Now go out and buy more spring clamps and C-clamps....It is true that you can't
have too many.
Greg Cardinal
>>> Kip & Beth Gardner 12/13 4:15 PM >>>
Hi List,
Well, now that I've gone & 'got married' by running off with someone else's
partially complete project, I'm starting to think about getting my workshop
set up, something I thought I could put off until we were more settled in
the new house, but now has a little more urgency.
So, I'd like some advice about tools, mostly power tools; I have a good
selection of power & non-power hand tools & non-power woodworking tools.
Took a look at a few things at ye olde Home Depot today that got the brain
turning. I am assuming the following are helpful, if not essential, any
comments?
1.) A good vise for bending fittings, etc. - how big is big enough?
2.) Drill press - HD had a 10" Ryobi benchtop model with 1/2" chuck for
about $100.00 - big enough/good enough?
3.) Table saw - based on comments on the list in the past few weeks, sounds
like a real useful item. HD had a 10", 15amp Skil for about $200. Comments
on size or other considerations?
4.) Bandsaw - Again, sounds real useful. Anyone have any feelings about the
minimum useful throat height &/or other considerations? HD was selling a
Delta with 10" throat for $300.
Any other big-ticket tool items that people have found that they can't live
without?
Thanks one & All!
Kip Gardner (off to my first EAA chapter meeting since landing in OH)
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
Ed,
Don't take offense.
The compass comment was in jest, note the smiley face after the signature. If
you re-read it you may see that I'm making fun at all of us who have gotten away
from dead reckoning and become too dependent on our electronic toys, including
myself.
Larry
Ed Grentzer wrote:
>
> Thanks to those that shared their experiences with compass deviation
> it's something I haven't done before and didn't want to mess it up.
> To those that care to make fun of my post you need to sit back and
> think about what this list is all about. Maybe you should start your
> own list.I have some suggestions as to what you could name it but
> can't put them on my company's computer. Thanks to all who have
> helped me with information over the last two years. In the future I
> will figure out my own problems or e-mail the real people
> that I have met from the list personally. Ed G.
>
> >From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
> >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:44:28 -0600
> >
> >
> >Okay,
> >
> >You guys got me again, what's a compass?
> >Do they come with USB ports or is this a serial device???
> >
> >Larry
> >;-)
> >
> >
> >"Ed G." wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Interesting!! I've heard of a degausser but never knew what they
> > > actually were. Will it actualy demagnatize ferrus metals?
> > > If so that's pretty amazing. Ed G.
> > >
> >
> >
>
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
| Subject: | RE: OT.. was Power tool advice |
Robert wrote:
>I'm
> holding out for the $1500 one with the 50" fence!
>
>
>
> Robert Haines
>
>
>
YEAH me too!! Go for it, Robert. Does this happen to anyone?
Ah-h-h-h. The $1,500 dollar saw, the stuff dreams are made of.... M-m-m-m
...m-m-m , (drifting off now..),
.....wouldn't it be nice to have a nice big cabinet saw with all the
fixin's? And a super-duper cyclone dust collection system? and.. and.. ,
stacks of walnut seasoning in my humidity controlled shop, (YEAH Baby) with
bigger stacks of cherry, and.. (here it comes now, hold on) , my private
stand of Sitka Spruce (o-o-o-oh) in the back yard next to the computer
controlled sawmill... oh, Oh OH! ... Kent, time to wake up now and go to
work.
:)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Kip---pickup a Trading Time classified newspaper at your
local drugstore, beverage store, etc. and check for old Craftsman
table saws. Widows and such are just happy to get them out of
the garage or house sometimes for very cheap. Also the older
(I mean 1950's) Sears stuff is good. The only thing I'd suggest
is good carbide blade for it. My blade was $100 but it cut wood
like butter and still after literally thousands of cuts it cuts wonderfully.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Forgot to mention that your compass should be mounted
with brass nuts/bolts/washers and a brass screwdriver or
plastic should be used to swing it. I made a simple (small)
brass screwdriver with a 1/8" piece of brass rod and just filed
the tip into a flat screwdriver shape.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
I have tried not to post questions to the list unless I can't find the
info in my books or figure it out on my own. Being in an urban area my EAA
group doen't seem too interested in anything that's not aluminum with three
hundred h.p. This particular question I e-mailed someone personally about,
waited two days and didn't get an answer. Wanting to get on with my panel I
put it out to the list. This is not the first time that one of my questions
to the list has been made a mockery of which goes on for days. Other people
ask seemingly elementary questions and get tons of sincere answers from the
group, after a while one does take it perssonally. As for the so called
smiley face, I'm not a computer person so that group of puntuations did not
represent a smiley
face to me. Ed
>From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:13:08 -0600
>
>
>Ed,
>
>Don't take offense.
>
>The compass comment was in jest, note the smiley face after the signature.
>If
>you re-read it you may see that I'm making fun at all of us who have gotten
>away
>from dead reckoning and become too dependent on our electronic toys,
>including
>myself.
>
>Larry
>
>
>Ed Grentzer wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Thanks to those that shared their experiences with compass deviation
> > it's something I haven't done before and didn't want to mess it up.
> > To those that care to make fun of my post you need to sit back and
> > think about what this list is all about. Maybe you should start your
> > own list.I have some suggestions as to what you could name it but
> > can't put them on my company's computer. Thanks to all who have
> > helped me with information over the last two years. In the future I
> > will figure out my own problems or e-mail the real people
> > that I have met from the list personally. Ed G.
> >
> > >From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
> > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
> > >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:44:28 -0600
> > >
>
> > >
> > >Okay,
> > >
> > >You guys got me again, what's a compass?
> > >Do they come with USB ports or is this a serial device???
> > >
> > >Larry
> > >;-)
> > >
> > >
> > >"Ed G." wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Interesting!! I've heard of a degausser but never knew what they
> > > > actually were. Will it actualy demagnatize ferrus metals?
> > > > If so that's pretty amazing. Ed G.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
John,
I love a simple explanation.
Thanks,
Mark Boynton
>
> Mark,
>
> Most airports have a painted off area called the Compass Rose. It is
> oriented to the clock positions of the compass and looks a lot like a
shield
> to ward off evil spirits as seen on barns out East or a multi-pointed
star.
> The short story is, one takes their plane to the rose to figure out your
> compass deviation card. You orient the aircraft or "swing it" to the
points
> of the compass and read off the real value vs. what is shown on the
compass
> itself. Then using the compensator magnets on the compass and the
deviation
> card you can get an accurate compass reading. This is the short story and
it
> is really easier to do than to explain. Watch it once and you figure it
out.
> I used to do this quite a bit as a Gen Av mechanic but have not practiced
it
> in a few years. Anyone with a better explanation feel free to flame me :)
>
> TakeCare,
> -john-
>
> > What does it mean to "swing" a compass?
> >
> > Mark Boynton
> >
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
>
>
>
>
Send a friend your Buddy Card and stay in contact always with Excite Messenger
http://messenger.excite.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
Kip or anyone,
I hear that the glues in plywood are rough on saw blades, and that
you should have a separate blade for plywood.
Kent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power tool advice |
hear,hear
this business of cutting with the bandsaw and sanding
to the line is for the birds. thats why projects last
so long. marking your cut and cutting it to the line
is the mark of true craftsman. accuracy!
Robert Haines wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message
posted by: "Robert Haines" I'm going to diaviate from
the group here... I hate bandsaws. They are slowand,
unless they have a perfect blade, leave a rough cut in
wood. To me,they are a speciality tool for cutting
curves, not a replacement for thegood-old table saw.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
A hollow ground planer blade has no "set" in the teeth, i.e. the teeth
aren't bent out from the plane of the blade like on a normal "free-cutting"
blade. They make a beautiful cut, but do tend to bind and burn unless
they're really sharp and the wood is straight-grained and stress free. But
that's a pretty good description of what we use for our planes. I bought
all of my capstrop material cut to size and had very little ripping to do on
the project, so a smooth finish wasn't an issue. I used inexpensive carbide
blades for everything.
Kent, let us know how the inverted sabre saw works for you. I had such an
arrangement before I could afford my bandsaw, and hated it. My sabre saw is
about one step better than asking a beaver to gnaw through.
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | good point, Larry |
>Larry wrote:
>I'm making fun at all of us who have gotten away
>from dead reckoning and become too dependent on our electronic toys, including
>myself.
Larry, Ed, group, this is really true. Since "converting" 11 years ago
to flying
planes with no radio, no electrical, no starter, no nothing, I'm almost
mad at myself
for getting a gps and handheld this year. I hate the chatter and only
turn the radio
on when I'm 3 or 4 miles around an airport. The gps would be great to have in
deteriorating weather but you know what ? I only fly the Piet on nice
days and
95% of the time I can see an airport 15 miles out or better. Don't get me
wrong,
I like flying fancy planes once in a while with all the bells and whistles,
but there
is a great joy and satisfaction that comes from flying a plane like a Piet
from
uncontrolled airports. No flaps, no mixture, no gear, no strobes, beacons,
transponder, nuthin. It's just a wonderful way to enjoy your plane and
the sky.
End of sermon.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
Larry,
That is a great comment, with the GPS era the real
cross country traveling is not practiced as should be.
Here we normally make 3 long Xcontry flights in
ultralights and light planes a year, we even give
speaches and invite all the young and newer pilots to
make the planning with our help and most of them use
the GPS only as back up.
Last year a local pilot got lost because he lost the
electricity for the GPS and he forgot to put fresh
bateries, well to make the story short, he made a
perfect emergency landing with no fuel, BUT he spent
the night in a little valley in the Sierra, next
morning when rescued by a farmer, he was in bad shape
from the cold of the night... He forgot his jachet
and most important his maps, so when he lost the GPS
he knew was in real trouble, no Celphone conection in
that area either... three weeks later, several of us
went to help him fly the plane back, the area was
great, we all enjoy the trip... he was really lucky.
Practice your navigation and dead reconing frecuently,
no matter how much you spent in your GPS :-)
By the way a little joke once in a while is important
to keep the lists alive, flames and politics kill
them.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Larry Neal wrote:
>
>
> Ed,
>
> Don't take offense.
>
> The compass comment was in jest, note the smiley
> face after the signature. If
> you re-read it you may see that I'm making fun at
> all of us who have gotten away
> from dead reckoning and become too dependent on our
> electronic toys, including
> myself.
>
> Larry
>
>
> Ed Grentzer wrote:
>
> Grentzer"
> >
> > Thanks to those that shared their experiences
> with compass deviation
> > it's something I haven't done before and didn't
> want to mess it up.
> > To those that care to make fun of my post you
> need to sit back and
> > think about what this list is all about. Maybe
> you should start your
> > own list.I have some suggestions as to what you
> could name it but
> > can't put them on my company's computer. Thanks
> to all who have
> > helped me with information over the last two
> years. In the future I
> > will figure out my own problems or e-mail the
> real people
> > that I have met from the list personally. Ed
> G.
> >
> > >From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
> > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
> > >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:44:28 -0600
> > >
>
> > >
> > >Okay,
> > >
> > >You guys got me again, what's a compass?
> > >Do they come with USB ports or is this a serial
> device???
> > >
> > >Larry
> > >;-)
> > >
> > >
> > >"Ed G." wrote:
> > >
> flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Ed G.)
> > > >
> > > > Interesting!! I've heard of a degausser but
> never knew what they
> > > > actually were. Will it actualy demagnatize
> ferrus metals?
> > > > If so that's pretty amazing. Ed G.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
> http://mobile.msn.com
> >
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blades, sears |
this is true with steel blades, but carbide is not a
problem. to comment on why good carbide blades work
good is this. to get a saw blade to work well you have
to have each tooth in the blade follow each other
within .002. carbide blades and hollow ground steel
blades are the only way to achieve this, you cannot
achieve this accuracy with any blade with a "set"
(teeth that are bent to get side clearance) and this
is why you want a good tablesaw. you need one that the
arbor runs true. if you have this combination you will
not see any saw marks in your cut. I sell and sharpen
carbide blades to commercial shops for a living.
Del
> I hear that the glues in plywood are rough
> on saw blades, and that
> you should have a separate blade for plywood.
>
> Kent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: good point, Larry |
--- Michael D Cuy wrote:
> (snip... I only fly the Piet on nice days and 95%
> of the time I can see an airport 15 miles out or
> better...
You are lucky in the USA, keep your aviation up, only
when you lost something you realize how important it
was...
For example: if you make a 50 mile circle around
Houston, there are more airports inside that circle
than in ALL Mxico...
Here you can fly (at about 60 mph) in any direction
for almost two hours and not see even a grass strip...
We are working hard to bring aviation as a sport, back
to where it was lots of years ago, before it was so
beaten up as a "excuse" to prevent drug smugling to
the USA... Here we say that airplanes are birds in
danger of extintion.
Sorry, no more politics here...
Saludos
Gary Gower
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
I will fight the urge to use a GPS as long as water towers have city names on them.
Greg Cardinal
>>> Gary Gower 12/14 10:33 AM >>>
Larry,
That is a great comment, with the GPS era the real
cross country traveling is not practiced as should be.
Here we normally make 3 long Xcontry flights in
ultralights and light planes a year, we even give
speaches and invite all the young and newer pilots to
make the planning with our help and most of them use
the GPS only as back up.
Last year a local pilot got lost because he lost the
electricity for the GPS and he forgot to put fresh
bateries, well to make the story short, he made a
perfect emergency landing with no fuel, BUT he spent
the night in a little valley in the Sierra, next
morning when rescued by a farmer, he was in bad shape
from the cold of the night... He forgot his jachet
and most important his maps, so when he lost the GPS
he knew was in real trouble, no Celphone conection in
that area either... three weeks later, several of us
went to help him fly the plane back, the area was
great, we all enjoy the trip... he was really lucky.
Practice your navigation and dead reconing frecuently,
no matter how much you spent in your GPS :-)
By the way a little joke once in a while is important
to keep the lists alive, flames and politics kill
them.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Larry Neal wrote:
>
>
> Ed,
>
> Don't take offense.
>
> The compass comment was in jest, note the smiley
> face after the signature. If
> you re-read it you may see that I'm making fun at
> all of us who have gotten away
> from dead reckoning and become too dependent on our
> electronic toys, including
> myself.
>
> Larry
>
>
> Ed Grentzer wrote:
>
> Grentzer"
> >
> > Thanks to those that shared their experiences
> with compass deviation
> > it's something I haven't done before and didn't
> want to mess it up.
> > To those that care to make fun of my post you
> need to sit back and
> > think about what this list is all about. Maybe
> you should start your
> > own list.I have some suggestions as to what you
> could name it but
> > can't put them on my company's computer. Thanks
> to all who have
> > helped me with information over the last two
> years. In the future I
> > will figure out my own problems or e-mail the
> real people
> > that I have met from the list personally. Ed
> G.
> >
> > >From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
> > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
> > >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:44:28 -0600
> > >
>
> > >
> > >Okay,
> > >
> > >You guys got me again, what's a compass?
> > >Do they come with USB ports or is this a serial
> device???
> > >
> > >Larry
> > >;-)
> > >
> > >
> > >"Ed G." wrote:
> > >
> flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Ed G.)
> > > >
> > > > Interesting!! I've heard of a degausser but
> never knew what they
> > > > actually were. Will it actualy demagnatize
> ferrus metals?
> > > > If so that's pretty amazing. Ed G.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
> http://mobile.msn.com
> >
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | For a lot of us professional types |
For many of the professional pilots who fly the heavy iron and corporate
types with every feature imaginable in terms of radios, nav systems, and
instruments, it is refreshing to fly the simplest of machinery.
One of my Captain friends never really cared that his Luscombe
instruments worked at all. He maintained they were merely there to
satisfy the FAA requirement and the fact that most were inoperable was
of no concern to him. He enjoys the true seat of the pants flying.
There is something to be said about this and I hear waht Mike C. is
saying. While I will take the minimum instrument set per FAA
requirements plus a needle and ball, I could probably get along with
just the ball. GPS, radios, etc....what a hassle. Just give me a
sectional anyday.
chris bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
Ed,
I think that it's the nature of email lists. Without voice inflection and body
language it's easy to offend folks, hence the use of little symbols to show
emotion. Still the rule is don't be shy to post and there is no such thing as
a
dumb question. This is a fun group and you are welcome here.
We all ticked from time to time. In fact I posted a question about reinforcing
the seat backs a while back and no-body replied. I moped around for a day or
two until I realized that most folks were spending hours upon hours researching
spars and writing informative replies.
So don't feel alone, I get my blood pressure raised about every two or three
months, but unless it's someone from outside just trying to stir up trouble it's
always just a misunderstanding.
So back to practical matters. Did the stainless answers solve your problem?
I'm not caught up with my mail just yet so let me know.
In my humble opinion, you should not worry too much about the steel up front.
The compensating magnets in the compass are intended to correct for this.
Swinging the compass is an art form, but you can get good results by lining up
on the compass rose and twiddling the adjusting screws. One should be for
east-west, the other is used when lined up north-south. You'll have to repeat
a
couple of times. Swearing and throwing tools seems to help.
Those more knowledgeable than me can probably provide improvements to this
technique..
Don't run power cables to close to the compass and be sure to check for
spontaneous changes in direction when switching on electrical equipment. This
is not a big concern for the traditional hand held strapped to the panel but can
be important if you intend to install radar and ILS systems. ;-)
Larry
Ed Grentzer wrote:
>
> I have tried not to post questions to the list unless I can't find the
> info in my books or figure it out on my own. Being in an urban area my EAA
> group doen't seem too interested in anything that's not aluminum with three
> hundred h.p. This particular question I e-mailed someone personally about,
> waited two days and didn't get an answer. Wanting to get on with my panel I
> put it out to the list. This is not the first time that one of my questions
> to the list has been made a mockery of which goes on for days. Other people
> ask seemingly elementary questions and get tons of sincere answers from the
> group, after a while one does take it perssonally. As for the so called
> smiley face, I'm not a computer person so that group of puntuations did not
> represent a smiley
> face to me. Ed
>
> >From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
> >Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:13:08 -0600
> >
> >
> >Ed,
> >
> >Don't take offense.
> >
> >The compass comment was in jest, note the smiley face after the signature.
> >If
> >you re-read it you may see that I'm making fun at all of us who have gotten
> >away
> >from dead reckoning and become too dependent on our electronic toys,
> >including
> >myself.
> >
> >Larry
> >
> >
> >Ed Grentzer wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks to those that shared their experiences with compass deviation
> > > it's something I haven't done before and didn't want to mess it up.
> > > To those that care to make fun of my post you need to sit back and
> > > think about what this list is all about. Maybe you should start your
> > > own list.I have some suggestions as to what you could name it but
> > > can't put them on my company's computer. Thanks to all who have
> > > helped me with information over the last two years. In the future I
> > > will figure out my own problems or e-mail the real people
> > > that I have met from the list personally. Ed G.
> > >
> > > >From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
> > > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
> > > >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:44:28 -0600
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >Okay,
> > > >
> > > >You guys got me again, what's a compass?
> > > >Do they come with USB ports or is this a serial device???
> > > >
> > > >Larry
> > > >;-)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >"Ed G." wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Interesting!! I've heard of a degausser but never knew what they
> > > > > actually were. Will it actualy demagnatize ferrus metals?
> > > > > If so that's pretty amazing. Ed G.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> > >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Compass Location |
Ed G. I guess I missed something. I saw only good comments and good natured
banter. For what it's worth, my compass is mounted on the underside of the
center section just forward of the 'flop'. Nothing metallic real close. And
with that 'ol radiator up front the compass doesn't block out much. Of course
I will' swing and calibrate when I get it out to the airport ! Hang in with
the group Ed. I've enjoyed your past comments and your question needed to be
asked Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hofmann" <jhofmann(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
Larry,
This works well with a lot of airplane work (swearing and throwing tools). I
also would add that the shaking of a freshly slaughtered chicken while
burning incense also adds to the process. Well at least it makes good
conversation for the airport locals. A rubber chicken will work in a pinch.
> Swinging the compass is an art form, but you can get good results by
lining up
> on the compass rose and twiddling the adjusting screws. One should be for
> east-west, the other is used when lined up north-south. You'll have to
repeat a
> couple of times. Swearing and throwing tools seems to help.
> Those more knowledgeable than me can probably provide improvements to this
> technique..
TakeCare,
-john-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | narrow minded about gps |
Upon further review.....like they say in the NFL, I'd like to add
that over the mountains of West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and such
a gps is probably a Godsend and when trying to navigate (which I'm too
chicken to fly over anyway:) and (read stay out of)
complex airspace so you don't get in trouble with the feds.
I imagine in places like Oklahoma, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, etc.
a gps would come in real handy too. Guess I'm just narrow in
my thinking since everything between Ohio and Wisconsin are
perfect checker board layouts.
One other thing if I may......I've gotten so used to flying at 800 or 1000'
agl that when I go up with someone in a Navion or such and they go
to 5,000 feet I'm actually spooked by the height ! Is that stupid or
what ??
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
Sorry I got ticked Larry..it wasn't just you that got under my skin,
nothing personal. BTW I reinforced my seat back with two strips of spruce
across the back. one behind my shoulder blades and the other near the
bottom.
>From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:10:02 -0600
>
>
>Ed,
>
>I think that it's the nature of email lists. Without voice inflection and
>body
>language it's easy to offend folks, hence the use of little symbols to show
>emotion. Still the rule is don't be shy to post and there is no such thing
>as a
>dumb question. This is a fun group and you are welcome here.
>
>We all ticked from time to time. In fact I posted a question about
>reinforcing
>the seat backs a while back and no-body replied. I moped around for a day
>or
>two until I realized that most folks were spending hours upon hours
>researching
>spars and writing informative replies.
>
>So don't feel alone, I get my blood pressure raised about every two or
>three
>months, but unless it's someone from outside just trying to stir up trouble
>it's
>always just a misunderstanding.
>
>So back to practical matters. Did the stainless answers solve your
>problem?
>I'm not caught up with my mail just yet so let me know.
>
>In my humble opinion, you should not worry too much about the steel up
>front.
>The compensating magnets in the compass are intended to correct for this.
>
>Swinging the compass is an art form, but you can get good results by lining
>up
>on the compass rose and twiddling the adjusting screws. One should be for
>east-west, the other is used when lined up north-south. You'll have to
>repeat a
>couple of times. Swearing and throwing tools seems to help.
>Those more knowledgeable than me can probably provide improvements to this
>technique..
>
>Don't run power cables to close to the compass and be sure to check for
>spontaneous changes in direction when switching on electrical equipment.
>This
>is not a big concern for the traditional hand held strapped to the panel
>but can
>be important if you intend to install radar and ILS systems. ;-)
>
>Larry
>
>Ed Grentzer wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I have tried not to post questions to the list unless I can't find
>the
> > info in my books or figure it out on my own. Being in an urban area my
>EAA
> > group doen't seem too interested in anything that's not aluminum with
>three
> > hundred h.p. This particular question I e-mailed someone personally
>about,
> > waited two days and didn't get an answer. Wanting to get on with my
>panel I
> > put it out to the list. This is not the first time that one of my
>questions
> > to the list has been made a mockery of which goes on for days. Other
>people
> > ask seemingly elementary questions and get tons of sincere answers from
>the
> > group, after a while one does take it perssonally. As for the so called
> > smiley face, I'm not a computer person so that group of puntuations did
>not
> > represent a smiley
> > face to me. Ed
> >
> > >From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
> > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
> > >Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:13:08 -0600
> > >
>
> > >
> > >Ed,
> > >
> > >Don't take offense.
> > >
> > >The compass comment was in jest, note the smiley face after the
>signature.
> > >If
> > >you re-read it you may see that I'm making fun at all of us who have
>gotten
> > >away
> > >from dead reckoning and become too dependent on our electronic toys,
> > >including
> > >myself.
> > >
> > >Larry
> > >
> > >
> > >Ed Grentzer wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks to those that shared their experiences with compass
>deviation
> > > > it's something I haven't done before and didn't want to mess it
>up.
> > > > To those that care to make fun of my post you need to sit back
>and
> > > > think about what this list is all about. Maybe you should start
>your
> > > > own list.I have some suggestions as to what you could name it but
> > > > can't put them on my company's computer. Thanks to all who have
> > > > helped me with information over the last two years. In the future
>I
> > > > will figure out my own problems or e-mail the real people
> > > > that I have met from the list personally. Ed G.
> > > >
> > > > >From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
> > > > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
> > > > >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:44:28 -0600
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Okay,
> > > > >
> > > > >You guys got me again, what's a compass?
> > > > >Do they come with USB ports or is this a serial device???
> > > > >
> > > > >Larry
> > > > >;-)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >"Ed G." wrote:
> > > > >
>G.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Interesting!! I've heard of a degausser but never knew what
>they
> > > > > > actually were. Will it actualy demagnatize ferrus metals?
> > > > > > If so that's pretty amazing. Ed G.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
>http://mobile.msn.com
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: OT.. was Power tool advice |
Sounds like you cats have been watching Norm and his New Yankee Workshop too
much. If anyone has any extra tools they might send them to Norm as it
appears he is in need of some modern equipment.
Corky in La where we build Piets with axes, wedges, draw knives and hammers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: narrow minded about gps |
Hi ya, Mike!
I guess you need to fly in KS -- for the most part all the roads are in 1
mile north-south & east-west grid and the Nav. markers (a.k.a. grain
elevators) have the town names! Don't need no stinken GPS!! ;-)
Mike (the other) C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: narrow minded about gps
>
> Upon further review.....like they say in the NFL, I'd like to add
> that over the mountains of West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and such
> a gps is probably a Godsend and when trying to navigate (which I'm too
> chicken to fly over anyway:) and (read stay out of)
> complex airspace so you don't get in trouble with the feds.
> I imagine in places like Oklahoma, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, etc.
> a gps would come in real handy too. Guess I'm just narrow in
> my thinking since everything between Ohio and Wisconsin are
> perfect checker board layouts.
>
> One other thing if I may......I've gotten so used to flying at 800 or
1000'
> agl that when I go up with someone in a Navion or such and they go
> to 5,000 feet I'm actually spooked by the height ! Is that stupid or
> what ??
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: narrow minded about gps and another stupid question |
I read about these GPS devices. Is this some advance tangent of our A_N-
instrument navigation system? I've heard that they are to come out soon with
something new called OMNI but I haven't followed up on that. Maybe I'll read
about it in the next magazine.
Rip Van Corky in La collecting Alligator teeth and old gum wrappers.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
In a message dated 12/14/01 12:48:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com writes:
Sorry I got ticked Larry..it wasn't just you that got under my skin,
nothing personal. BTW I reinforced my seat back with two strips of spruce
across the back. one behind my shoulder blades and the other near the
bottom.
>>
Thats what is so great about this list. We can all share ideas, and when we
have questions get several different views of the same thing.
I did enjoy the comments about the compass, both the serious and the
sarcastic. I'll have to remember the information about Stainless Steel and
brass.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: OT.. was Power tool advice |
Kent,
Does your wife know about this? :)
Thanks to everyone for the tool advice, a lot to think about, but all
greatly appreciated. Guess I'll keep my eyes peeled for a good used table
saw, drill press & bandsaw. Sounds like most of the other tools available
at HD are OK.(Mike C. thanks for the tip on the local used goods paper, we
had one back in VA called the 'Trading Post' - good to know there's one
like it here).
Cheers!
Kip (whose wife is feeling just the slightest bit jealous about my new
'relationship')
>YEAH me too!! Go for it, Robert. Does this happen to anyone?
>
>Ah-h-h-h. The $1,500 dollar saw, the stuff dreams are made of.... M-m-m-m
>...m-m-m , (drifting off now..),
>
>.....wouldn't it be nice to have a nice big cabinet saw with all the
>fixin's? And a super-duper cyclone dust collection system? and.. and.. ,
>stacks of walnut seasoning in my humidity controlled shop, (YEAH Baby) with
>bigger stacks of cherry, and.. (here it comes now, hold on) , my private
>stand of Sitka Spruce (o-o-o-oh) in the back yard next to the computer
>controlled sawmill... oh, Oh OH! ... Kent, time to wake up now and go to
>work.
> :)
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
ED,
What was more amazing to me, was what I saw in the navy. Our sub was
actually put into a degaussing station where they looped cables around the
boat with a "coil", and actually demagged the whole boat. This is so the
P3 Orion ( don't know if they still use them) couldn't pick us up under the
surface. They did it by seeing the earth's magnetic lines being distorted
by the magnetized boat.
Anyway, back to the compass. Didn't see it discussed how to set the compass
properly. (If I remember properly)
First set the plane to a heading,like north. Now whatever your compass
reads, adjust for half the error on the screw marked N-S Like if compass
reads330, adjust the screw to read 345. Then to south, if reads,say, 170.
Adjust to 175. You keeping halving the error till you can zero in on it.
And so on with the E-W headings.
Don't remember the sequence exactly, weather you go from N-S, then to E-W,
then back to N-S, but there is a set procedure. I'll try to find it if you
need it.
Oh Yeah, YOU HAVE TO USE A NON FERROUS SCREWDRIVER, like aluminum , brass
or fiber.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
>
> Interesting!! I've heard of a degausser but never knew what they
> actually were. Will it actualy demagnatize ferrus metals?
> If so that's pretty amazing. Ed G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jared wilkinson <jared_wilkinson(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: narrow minded about gps and another stupid question |
Back a few years ago when we could fly out of good ole' H2O here in SW MO, we'd
just keep an eye on the Concrete OMNI out the pneumonia hole of that trusty PA-11.
Piet dreamin'......
Jared
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | compass interference |
Hi Walt, Ed,
That's the sequence, but as someone pointed out, the plane must be level,
the engine should be running (preferably at cruise power but that's not so
important), all electrical equipment (if any) should be on and operating,
and as I said in my post a couple of days ago, if the stick is steel it
should be held in the cruise position. Do this for N/S and E/W and adjust
it as well as possible. Any deviations left uncorrected should be noted on
a compass correction card located near the compass in plain view. I think
the compass correction card is required equipment by the FAA (help me on
this, Cy G.) and is sort of a mark that you really knew what you were doing
when you built this plane. You may never use it again, but it might help
get the FAA's approval.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walter
evans
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
ED,
What was more amazing to me, was what I saw in the navy. Our sub was
actually put into a degaussing station where they looped cables around the
boat with a "coil", and actually demagged the whole boat. This is so the
P3 Orion ( don't know if they still use them) couldn't pick us up under the
surface. They did it by seeing the earth's magnetic lines being distorted
by the magnetized boat.
Anyway, back to the compass. Didn't see it discussed how to set the compass
properly. (If I remember properly)
First set the plane to a heading,like north. Now whatever your compass
reads, adjust for half the error on the screw marked N-S Like if compass
reads330, adjust the screw to read 345. Then to south, if reads,say, 170.
Adjust to 175. You keeping halving the error till you can zero in on it.
And so on with the E-W headings.
Don't remember the sequence exactly, weather you go from N-S, then to E-W,
then back to N-S, but there is a set procedure. I'll try to find it if you
need it.
Oh Yeah, YOU HAVE TO USE A NON FERROUS SCREWDRIVER, like aluminum , brass
or fiber.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
>
> Interesting!! I've heard of a degausser but never knew what they
> actually were. Will it actualy demagnatize ferrus metals?
> If so that's pretty amazing. Ed G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"Fishnet"
A question a little off topic.
My instructor had on a T shirt with a check list printed upside down, so
you could just look down , pull the shirt bottom out, and read the list
from above. Anyone seen these? Anyone got a good checklist to use
with an iron-on stencil on a T shirt?
It's always a head turner, even at the supermarket.
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: checklist shirt |
Walt,
If you find the source please let me know. I want to get one
for my soon to start taking lessons son. I wince at the thought
of what it will do to my insurance rates.
Dave
N36078 '41 Taylorcraft BC-12-65
>
>
>A question a little off topic.
>My instructor had on a T shirt with a check list printed upside down, so
>you could just look down , pull the shirt bottom out, and read the list
>from above. Anyone seen these? Anyone got a good checklist to use
>with an iron-on stencil on a T shirt?
>It's always a head turner, even at the supermarket.
>walt
>
>
>---
>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Planer Blade |
Kent,
When I was a kid about 40 years ago I mounted my dad's Sears sabersaw upside
down in an old wooden milk crate. Worked really good. Just be real careful.
There aren't any guards on the blade. Make sure the motor has good
ventilation.
Good luck,
George Allen
Harrisburg, PA
GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
(wait'n for wood Peit'. builder)
> Kent, let us know how the inverted sabre saw works for you. I had such
an
> arrangement before I could afford my bandsaw, and hated it. My sabre saw
is
> about one step better than asking a beaver to gnaw through.
>
> Gene Hubbard
> San Diego
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blades, sears |
I agree. I have hollow ground blades for my table saw but I end
up using my narrow-kerf carbide blades for just about everything.
They are only about .080" thick. Standard blades are about .125".
If you aren't cutting real thick wood (need the full height of the blade)
use blade stabilizers and you'll get a smoother cut, especially for the
narrow blades. They cut down on the vibations. They are just very large
heavy cupped washers that go on each side of the blade.
I recommend an 80 toothed blade for almost all cuts but ripping. A
40T or 60T might be better.
Wood working is one of my hobbies. Someday I'll get good at it.
George Allen
Harrisburg, PA
GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
(wait'n for wood Peit'. builder)
----- Original Message -----
> this is true with steel blades, but carbide is not a
> problem. to comment on why good carbide blades work
> good is this. to get a saw blade to work well you have
> to have each tooth in the blade follow each other
> within .002. carbide blades and hollow ground steel
> blades are the only way to achieve this, you cannot
> achieve this accuracy with any blade with a "set"
> (teeth that are bent to get side clearance) and this
> is why you want a good tablesaw. you need one that the
> arbor runs true. if you have this combination you will
> not see any saw marks in your cut. I sell and sharpen
> carbide blades to commercial shops for a living.
> Del
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: OT.. was Power tool advice |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kip & Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: RE: OT.. was Power tool advice
>
> Kent,
>
> Does your wife know about this? :)
>
> Thanks to everyone for the tool advice, a lot to think about, but all
> greatly appreciated. Guess I'll keep my eyes peeled for a good used table
> saw, drill press & bandsaw. Sounds like most of the other tools available
> at HD are OK.(Mike C. thanks for the tip on the local used goods paper, we
> had one back in VA called the 'Trading Post' - good to know there's one
> like it here).
>
> Cheers!
>
> Kip (whose wife is feeling just the slightest bit jealous about my new
> 'relationship')
>
> >YEAH me too!! Go for it, Robert. Does this happen to anyone?
> >
> >Ah-h-h-h. The $1,500 dollar saw, the stuff dreams are made of....
M-m-m-m
> >...m-m-m , (drifting off now..),
> >
> >.....wouldn't it be nice to have a nice big cabinet saw with all the
> >fixin's? And a super-duper cyclone dust collection system? and..
and.. ,
> >stacks of walnut seasoning in my humidity controlled shop, (YEAH Baby)
with
> >bigger stacks of cherry, and.. (here it comes now, hold on) , my
private
> >stand of Sitka Spruce (o-o-o-oh) in the back yard next to the computer
> >controlled sawmill... oh, Oh OH! ... Kent, time to wake up now and go to
> >work.
> > :)
>
> 426 Schneider St. SE
> North Canton, OH 44720
> (330) 494-1775
>
> Kip,
There is one other power tool that has not been mentioned, and that is a
bench mounted planer. I used mine extensively to bring parts like spars,
rib material, longerons etc down to EXACT dimensions--often to within a
couple of thou. It also allowed me to mill most of my lumber and certainly
more than saved the cost of the machine in material savings.
John Dilatush
Salida, Colorado
dilatush(at)amigo.net
"almost ready to fly"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
Ed,
No problem.
Thanks for the note on the seat back. I'll listen a bit more, but I have the
same thought.
I'd hate climb in with that clumsy parachute or try to shift position on a long
flight and crack that 1/8" sheet. Lordy, that would be hard to get to for a
repair!
I've been one of those build-to-plans guys since day one and I'm still amazed at
how sharp Bernie was, but maybe just a couple of ounces, just this once....
Larry
Ed Grentzer wrote:
>
> Sorry I got ticked Larry..it wasn't just you that got under my skin,
> nothing personal. BTW I reinforced my seat back with two strips of spruce
> across the back. one behind my shoulder blades and the other near the
> bottom.
>
> >From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
> >Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:10:02 -0600
> >
> >
> >Ed,
> >
> >I think that it's the nature of email lists. Without voice inflection and
> >body
> >language it's easy to offend folks, hence the use of little symbols to show
> >emotion. Still the rule is don't be shy to post and there is no such thing
> >as a
> >dumb question. This is a fun group and you are welcome here.
> >
> >We all ticked from time to time. In fact I posted a question about
> >reinforcing
> >the seat backs a while back and no-body replied. I moped around for a day
> >or
> >two until I realized that most folks were spending hours upon hours
> >researching
> >spars and writing informative replies.
> >
> >So don't feel alone, I get my blood pressure raised about every two or
> >three
> >months, but unless it's someone from outside just trying to stir up trouble
> >it's
> >always just a misunderstanding.
> >
> >So back to practical matters. Did the stainless answers solve your
> >problem?
> >I'm not caught up with my mail just yet so let me know.
> >
> >In my humble opinion, you should not worry too much about the steel up
> >front.
> >The compensating magnets in the compass are intended to correct for this.
> >
> >Swinging the compass is an art form, but you can get good results by lining
> >up
> >on the compass rose and twiddling the adjusting screws. One should be for
> >east-west, the other is used when lined up north-south. You'll have to
> >repeat a
> >couple of times. Swearing and throwing tools seems to help.
> >Those more knowledgeable than me can probably provide improvements to this
> >technique..
> >
> >Don't run power cables to close to the compass and be sure to check for
> >spontaneous changes in direction when switching on electrical equipment.
> >This
> >is not a big concern for the traditional hand held strapped to the panel
> >but can
> >be important if you intend to install radar and ILS systems. ;-)
> >
> >Larry
> >
> >Ed Grentzer wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I have tried not to post questions to the list unless I can't find
> >the
> > > info in my books or figure it out on my own. Being in an urban area my
> >EAA
> > > group doen't seem too interested in anything that's not aluminum with
> >three
> > > hundred h.p. This particular question I e-mailed someone personally
> >about,
> > > waited two days and didn't get an answer. Wanting to get on with my
> >panel I
> > > put it out to the list. This is not the first time that one of my
> >questions
> > > to the list has been made a mockery of which goes on for days. Other
> >people
> > > ask seemingly elementary questions and get tons of sincere answers from
> >the
> > > group, after a while one does take it perssonally. As for the so called
> > > smiley face, I'm not a computer person so that group of puntuations did
> >not
> > > represent a smiley
> > > face to me. Ed
> > >
> > > >From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
> > > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
> > > >Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:13:08 -0600
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >Ed,
> > > >
> > > >Don't take offense.
> > > >
> > > >The compass comment was in jest, note the smiley face after the
> >signature.
> > > >If
> > > >you re-read it you may see that I'm making fun at all of us who have
> >gotten
> > > >away
> > > >from dead reckoning and become too dependent on our electronic toys,
> > > >including
> > > >myself.
> > > >
> > > >Larry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Ed Grentzer wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks to those that shared their experiences with compass
> >deviation
> > > > > it's something I haven't done before and didn't want to mess it
> >up.
> > > > > To those that care to make fun of my post you need to sit back
> >and
> > > > > think about what this list is all about. Maybe you should start
> >your
> > > > > own list.I have some suggestions as to what you could name it but
> > > > > can't put them on my company's computer. Thanks to all who have
> > > > > helped me with information over the last two years. In the future
> >I
> > > > > will figure out my own problems or e-mail the real people
> > > > > that I have met from the list personally. Ed G.
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
> > > > > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > > > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:44:28 -0600
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Okay,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >You guys got me again, what's a compass?
> > > > > >Do they come with USB ports or is this a serial device???
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Larry
> > > > > >;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >"Ed G." wrote:
> > > > > >
> >G.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Interesting!! I've heard of a degausser but never knew what
> >they
> > > > > > > actually were. Will it actualy demagnatize ferrus metals?
> > > > > > > If so that's pretty amazing. Ed G.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
> >http://mobile.msn.com
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: OT.. was Power tool advice |
> There is one other power tool that has not been
> mentioned, and that is a
> bench mounted planer. I used mine extensively to
> bring parts like spars,
> rib material, longerons etc down to EXACT
> dimensions--often to within a
> couple of thou. It also allowed me to mill most of
> my lumber and certainly
> more than saved the cost of the machine in material
> savings.
this is a very good piece of advice. my delta 12"
Planer is used extensively on every piece of wood. it
comes out finished, no sanding, a very nice finish
machine, if you run all of your rib material thru it,
you could cut all of the pieces all at one time and
every rib would fit. no cutting one rib at a time
business. if you have to choose between the planer and
bandsaw, take the planer. you can do all of your
curved cuts with a sabre saw. which isn't many. I have
a bandsaw and a disc/belt sander. but I rarely use
them. cut your pieces to size, run it thru the planer
to get a finished product exactly to size within .005.
mark it, cut it at the mark with a good chop saw and
glue together. a perfect fit 98 percent of the time.
Del
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: For a lot of us professional types |
Christian,
You got it completely right. My business flying is typically 10 munites of
hands on the controlls and hours of systems management. Theres nothing like
the put-put watching the silos and water towers.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: For a lot of us professional types
>
> For many of the professional pilots who fly the heavy iron and corporate
> types with every feature imaginable in terms of radios, nav systems, and
> instruments, it is refreshing to fly the simplest of machinery.
>
> One of my Captain friends never really cared that his Luscombe
> instruments worked at all. He maintained they were merely there to
> satisfy the FAA requirement and the fact that most were inoperable was
> of no concern to him. He enjoys the true seat of the pants flying.
> There is something to be said about this and I hear waht Mike C. is
> saying. While I will take the minimum instrument set per FAA
> requirements plus a needle and ball, I could probably get along with
> just the ball. GPS, radios, etc....what a hassle. Just give me a
> sectional anyday.
>
> chris bobka
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: For a lot of us professional types |
Christian,
You got it completely right. My business flying is typically 10 munites of
hands on the controlls and hours of systems management. Theres nothing like
the put-put watching the silos and water towers.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: For a lot of us professional types
>
> For many of the professional pilots who fly the heavy iron and corporate
> types with every feature imaginable in terms of radios, nav systems, and
> instruments, it is refreshing to fly the simplest of machinery.
>
> One of my Captain friends never really cared that his Luscombe
> instruments worked at all. He maintained they were merely there to
> satisfy the FAA requirement and the fact that most were inoperable was
> of no concern to him. He enjoys the true seat of the pants flying.
> There is something to be said about this and I hear waht Mike C. is
> saying. While I will take the minimum instrument set per FAA
> requirements plus a needle and ball, I could probably get along with
> just the ball. GPS, radios, etc....what a hassle. Just give me a
> sectional anyday.
>
> chris bobka
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: narrow minded about gps and another stupid question |
Ok, everybody, time for trivia. Two questions:
1) where was the first "omni" installed and tested?
2) what is the "Merideth Effect"?
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: narrow minded about gps and another stupid
question
>
> I read about these GPS devices. Is this some advance tangent of our A_N-
> instrument navigation system? I've heard that they are to come out soon
with
> something new called OMNI but I haven't followed up on that. Maybe I'll
read
> about it in the next magazine.
> Rip Van Corky in La collecting Alligator teeth and old gum wrappers.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
> "What was more amazing to me, was what I saw in the navy. Our sub was
> actually put into a degaussing station where they looped cables around the
> boat with a "coil", and actually demagged the whole boat."
Actually, degaussing was invented by the British during WWII to combat
magnetic mines. They "wiped" their ships with an electrified wire and the
mines didn't work anymore. It had to be repeated after a time, though.
Don't worry too much about the compass. Mount it where you want and adjust
it as close as you can. That's why you have a deviation card, so that you
know how much the structure is altering the reading so you can make the
necessary correction to your heading.
I am just now getting back on the list after a prolonged absence after my
computer crashed and I was too stupid to figure out how to get back on the
list. Who was it that used to have the Piet site that had, literally,
hundreds of photos of Piets and projects? I lost the address and cannot
find it again, if it even exists anymore.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: compass correction card |
to my knowledge, the compass correction card is required.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
>
> Hi Walt, Ed,
>
> That's the sequence, but as someone pointed out, the plane must be level,
> the engine should be running (preferably at cruise power but that's not so
> important), all electrical equipment (if any) should be on and operating,
> and as I said in my post a couple of days ago, if the stick is steel it
> should be held in the cruise position. Do this for N/S and E/W and adjust
> it as well as possible. Any deviations left uncorrected should be noted
on
> a compass correction card located near the compass in plain view. I think
> the compass correction card is required equipment by the FAA (help me on
> this, Cy G.) and is sort of a mark that you really knew what you were
doing
> when you built this plane. You may never use it again, but it might help
> get the FAA's approval.
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walter
> evans
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 5:20 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
>
>
>
> ED,
> What was more amazing to me, was what I saw in the navy. Our sub was
> actually put into a degaussing station where they looped cables around the
> boat with a "coil", and actually demagged the whole boat. This is so the
> P3 Orion ( don't know if they still use them) couldn't pick us up under
the
> surface. They did it by seeing the earth's magnetic lines being distorted
> by the magnetized boat.
> Anyway, back to the compass. Didn't see it discussed how to set the
compass
> properly. (If I remember properly)
> First set the plane to a heading,like north. Now whatever your compass
> reads, adjust for half the error on the screw marked N-S Like if compass
> reads330, adjust the screw to read 345. Then to south, if reads,say, 170.
> Adjust to 175. You keeping halving the error till you can zero in on it.
> And so on with the E-W headings.
> Don't remember the sequence exactly, weather you go from N-S, then to E-W,
> then back to N-S, but there is a set procedure. I'll try to find it if
you
> need it.
> Oh Yeah, YOU HAVE TO USE A NON FERROUS SCREWDRIVER, like aluminum ,
brass
> or fiber.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)webtv.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
>
>
> >
> > Interesting!! I've heard of a degausser but never knew what they
> > actually were. Will it actualy demagnatize ferrus metals?
> > If so that's pretty amazing. Ed G.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Blade stabilizers |
Guys, sears has blade stabilizers that are really nice ground tool steel.
they fit the 5/8" arbor on most 10 and12 inch saws. Maybe the last thing
left at sears worth buying since they discontinued roebucks jeans.
Chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Blades, sears
>
> I agree. I have hollow ground blades for my table saw but I end
> up using my narrow-kerf carbide blades for just about everything.
> They are only about .080" thick. Standard blades are about .125".
> If you aren't cutting real thick wood (need the full height of the blade)
> use blade stabilizers and you'll get a smoother cut, especially for the
> narrow blades. They cut down on the vibations. They are just very large
> heavy cupped washers that go on each side of the blade.
> I recommend an 80 toothed blade for almost all cuts but ripping. A
> 40T or 60T might be better.
> Wood working is one of my hobbies. Someday I'll get good at it.
> George Allen
> Harrisburg, PA
> GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
> (wait'n for wood Peit'. builder)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > this is true with steel blades, but carbide is not a
> > problem. to comment on why good carbide blades work
> > good is this. to get a saw blade to work well you have
> > to have each tooth in the blade follow each other
> > within .002. carbide blades and hollow ground steel
> > blades are the only way to achieve this, you cannot
> > achieve this accuracy with any blade with a "set"
> > (teeth that are bent to get side clearance) and this
> > is why you want a good tablesaw. you need one that the
> > arbor runs true. if you have this combination you will
> > not see any saw marks in your cut. I sell and sharpen
> > carbide blades to commercial shops for a living.
> > Del
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The belt/disc sander |
The belt/disc sander is really most useful on making the metal parts, not
the wood ones.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "del magsam" <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: RE: OT.. was Power tool advice
>
> > There is one other power tool that has not been
> > mentioned, and that is a
> > bench mounted planer. I used mine extensively to
> > bring parts like spars,
> > rib material, longerons etc down to EXACT
> > dimensions--often to within a
> > couple of thou. It also allowed me to mill most of
> > my lumber and certainly
> > more than saved the cost of the machine in material
> > savings.
>
>
> this is a very good piece of advice. my delta 12"
> Planer is used extensively on every piece of wood. it
> comes out finished, no sanding, a very nice finish
> machine, if you run all of your rib material thru it,
> you could cut all of the pieces all at one time and
> every rib would fit. no cutting one rib at a time
> business. if you have to choose between the planer and
> bandsaw, take the planer. you can do all of your
> curved cuts with a sabre saw. which isn't many. I have
> a bandsaw and a disc/belt sander. but I rarely use
> them. cut your pieces to size, run it thru the planer
> to get a finished product exactly to size within .005.
> mark it, cut it at the mark with a good chop saw and
> glue together. a perfect fit 98 percent of the time.
> Del
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: degaussing history |
I have a picture of a German prewar He-111 that had a complete circular ring
mounted around it like a huge hoola hoop. It connnected wingtips to tail to
a rod in front of the nose. They had a big generator on board that would
create a magnetic field to explode mines as it flew low over the water. I
wonder if the pilot has brain cancer today or how the magnetos worked?
Chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
>
> > "What was more amazing to me, was what I saw in the navy. Our sub was
> > actually put into a degaussing station where they looped cables around
the
> > boat with a "coil", and actually demagged the whole boat."
>
>
> Actually, degaussing was invented by the British during WWII to combat
> magnetic mines. They "wiped" their ships with an electrified wire and the
> mines didn't work anymore. It had to be repeated after a time, though.
>
> Don't worry too much about the compass. Mount it where you want and
adjust
> it as close as you can. That's why you have a deviation card, so that you
> know how much the structure is altering the reading so you can make the
> necessary correction to your heading.
>
> I am just now getting back on the list after a prolonged absence after my
> computer crashed and I was too stupid to figure out how to get back on the
> list. Who was it that used to have the Piet site that had, literally,
> hundreds of photos of Piets and projects? I lost the address and cannot
> find it again, if it even exists anymore.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | interesting website on the Colditz Cock |
Check out this website for a glider that most of us are familiar with.
Look at the similarities to the Pietenpol.
http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/WWII/colditz/info/info.htm
chris bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
Gene,
The address you seek would be that of Senior Richard DeCosta. One of the
earlier holders of the Piet flame.
There was a time, many years ago, when the world was younger and before Matronix
ruled the earth. In these times, Grant the Just, Stevee the Great and Sir
Richard kept the Piet faith and built the first servers of the electronic age.
Many hope that they will come back some day. Unfortunately Grant is retiring,
Stevee's having too much fun being free of system admin work and Richard's site
is down as he's building a new business.
If you build to plans and are truly penitent, you may be able to view some
history at: Richard's http://aircamper.no-ip.com but it's just a shadow of it's
former glory....
Larry
Gene Rambo wrote:
>
> > "What was more amazing to me, was what I saw in the navy. Our sub was
> > actually put into a degaussing station where they looped cables around the
> > boat with a "coil", and actually demagged the whole boat."
>
> Actually, degaussing was invented by the British during WWII to combat
> magnetic mines. They "wiped" their ships with an electrified wire and the
> mines didn't work anymore. It had to be repeated after a time, though.
>
> Don't worry too much about the compass. Mount it where you want and adjust
> it as close as you can. That's why you have a deviation card, so that you
> know how much the structure is altering the reading so you can make the
> necessary correction to your heading.
>
> I am just now getting back on the list after a prolonged absence after my
> computer crashed and I was too stupid to figure out how to get back on the
> list. Who was it that used to have the Piet site that had, literally,
> hundreds of photos of Piets and projects? I lost the address and cannot
> find it again, if it even exists anymore.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: compass correction card |
Yes, a ramp check item.
Christian Bobka wrote:
>
> to my knowledge, the compass correction card is required.
>
> Chris Bobka
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
>
>
> >
> > Hi Walt, Ed,
> >
> > That's the sequence, but as someone pointed out, the plane must be level,
> > the engine should be running (preferably at cruise power but that's not so
> > important), all electrical equipment (if any) should be on and operating,
> > and as I said in my post a couple of days ago, if the stick is steel it
> > should be held in the cruise position. Do this for N/S and E/W and adjust
> > it as well as possible. Any deviations left uncorrected should be noted
> on
> > a compass correction card located near the compass in plain view. I think
> > the compass correction card is required equipment by the FAA (help me on
> > this, Cy G.) and is sort of a mark that you really knew what you were
> doing
> > when you built this plane. You may never use it again, but it might help
> > get the FAA's approval.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walter
> > evans
> > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 5:20 PM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
> >
> >
> >
> > ED,
> > What was more amazing to me, was what I saw in the navy. Our sub was
> > actually put into a degaussing station where they looped cables around the
> > boat with a "coil", and actually demagged the whole boat. This is so the
> > P3 Orion ( don't know if they still use them) couldn't pick us up under
> the
> > surface. They did it by seeing the earth's magnetic lines being distorted
> > by the magnetized boat.
> > Anyway, back to the compass. Didn't see it discussed how to set the
> compass
> > properly. (If I remember properly)
> > First set the plane to a heading,like north. Now whatever your compass
> > reads, adjust for half the error on the screw marked N-S Like if compass
> > reads330, adjust the screw to read 345. Then to south, if reads,say, 170.
> > Adjust to 175. You keeping halving the error till you can zero in on it.
> > And so on with the E-W headings.
> > Don't remember the sequence exactly, weather you go from N-S, then to E-W,
> > then back to N-S, but there is a set procedure. I'll try to find it if
> you
> > need it.
> > Oh Yeah, YOU HAVE TO USE A NON FERROUS SCREWDRIVER, like aluminum ,
> brass
> > or fiber.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)webtv.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Interesting!! I've heard of a degausser but never knew what they
> > > actually were. Will it actualy demagnatize ferrus metals?
> > > If so that's pretty amazing. Ed G.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Blade stabilizers |
I'm after 'em as soon as Sears opens tomorrow.
I just finished truing my Craftsman table saw. I thought I couldn't saw well,
but found my blade was out of alignment with the miter slot by 1/16" or more
difference front to back!
I was not happy about the inaccessible bolt locations and method of changing
alignment, but after about 30 minutes of fussing with the adjustment, I can now
rip lumber like I know what I'm doing.
What a difference, good info, thanks all!
Larry
Christian Bobka wrote:
>
> Guys, sears has blade stabilizers that are really nice ground tool steel.
> they fit the 5/8" arbor on most 10 and12 inch saws. Maybe the last thing
> left at sears worth buying since they discontinued roebucks jeans.
>
> Chris bobka
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Blades, sears
>
>
> >
> > I agree. I have hollow ground blades for my table saw but I end
> > up using my narrow-kerf carbide blades for just about everything.
> > They are only about .080" thick. Standard blades are about .125".
> > If you aren't cutting real thick wood (need the full height of the blade)
> > use blade stabilizers and you'll get a smoother cut, especially for the
> > narrow blades. They cut down on the vibations. They are just very large
> > heavy cupped washers that go on each side of the blade.
> > I recommend an 80 toothed blade for almost all cuts but ripping. A
> > 40T or 60T might be better.
> > Wood working is one of my hobbies. Someday I'll get good at it.
> > George Allen
> > Harrisburg, PA
> > GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
> > (wait'n for wood Peit'. builder)
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > this is true with steel blades, but carbide is not a
> > > problem. to comment on why good carbide blades work
> > > good is this. to get a saw blade to work well you have
> > > to have each tooth in the blade follow each other
> > > within .002. carbide blades and hollow ground steel
> > > blades are the only way to achieve this, you cannot
> > > achieve this accuracy with any blade with a "set"
> > > (teeth that are bent to get side clearance) and this
> > > is why you want a good tablesaw. you need one that the
> > > arbor runs true. if you have this combination you will
> > > not see any saw marks in your cut. I sell and sharpen
> > > carbide blades to commercial shops for a living.
> > > Del
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tool and "craftsmanship" ramblings... |
I hope this isn't too inflammtory, but....
I love tools, but I'm starting to feel a little embarrassed! Or, maybe I'm
suffering from tool envy - all I have are the low-end Sears benchtop drill
press, table saw, band saw, and router table. Every one is absolute low-end
stuff! I also have a hand jigsaw, and skilsaw, both el-cheapo, and so far,
my almost finished fuselage, tailfeathers and ribs seem fine!
I've ripped all of my own pieces, except the 4 longerons, from larger
stock, and I shaped all my tail section pieces myself using my Sears router
table. Yep, you can see saw marks on most of my cross braces, and I don't
mind, they'll be covered.
Before my Piet project, woodworking for me consisted of assembling cheap
Wal-Mart particle board furniture! I don't have furniture-perfect finished
spruce in my plane, and most of my cuts are "cut it close and sand to fit".
I'll admit that I'm not a "craftsman", and that upon not very close
inspection, purists might scoff at my work. I use T88 because of its
gap-filling qualities and I figure my slightly rougher surfaces provide more
"tooth" and better bonds.
My point is: Many of us aren't "craftsmen". We love airplanes, and stupid
us, we actually think we can muster what it takes to actually build one of
them. When I see all the talk of the expensive equipment that you really
"need" to build a Piet, and all the skill that's required, it makes me think
that maybe there's someone out there thinking about "giving up" because they
don't have the tools or skills required to build a Piet. But not me.
How about somebody stepping up and telling just how FEW expensive tools
they used in building their Piet! I have about $1000 invested in power tools
and a small gas welding rig.
Keep up the banter and activity - it's fun to have an active list,
regardless of whether or not we agree, we can all learn something from each
other! The compass stuff was great, good info and good fun!
Gary Meadows
Spring, Texas
(Fuselage, tailfeathers, and ribs pretty much done, I force-landed my Cessna
Cardinal last week with a busted jug, I'm taking my CFI ride in 6 days, and
I'm adding the IA to my A&P mid next year......yeah, I love airplanes!)
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: compass interference and swinging in the air. |
Group,
It's a good idea to check all ferrous parts (not many of them in
a wooden Pietenpol) with a small hand compass to determine
whether they have acquired a magnetic field. This would apply
chiefly to those parts in proximity with the magnetic compass.
If you find them to be magnetized, any facility that does magnetic
particle inspection (i.e. engine overhaul shop) will be able to
"degauss" them for you before you install them on your airplane.
All instruments should be installed with non-ferrous screws and
nuts (usually of brass) if the compass is located among them, or
near them.
Here in western Canada (and in the western USA) our land is
divided into a grid of section lines running in true directions N-S
and E-W. Roads and fencelines follow these making them handy
for "swinging" the compass in the air on a calm day. This method
can be quite accurate to establish the deviation for the four car-
dinal points: N, E,S, and W. (Deviation is the installation error in
your compass due to magnetic influences in the aircraft itself. It
cannot be eliminated on all headings, only minimized.)
Step by step, this is the procedure:
1. Figure out the magnetic heading for N, E,S and W using the local
declination (also called "magnetic variation" by some people),
which is provided by the isogonal lines on your aeronautical chart
or sectional map. (Remember variation can be easterly or westerly
depending on your location; if easterly, subtract it from the true hea-
ding to obtain the magnetic heading; if westerly, add it to the true
heading. For example, with a variation of 20 degrees E., the mag-
netic heading would be 360 - 20 = 340 degrees. Ideally, your com-
pass should read close to 340 degrees and the difference is the
deviation, which will be shown on the compass correction card.)
Place the magnetic heading figures you have calculated on a piece
of paper to take along on your flight (Don't forget the pencil!).
2. Make a cute little screwdriver by flattening and filing one end of a
piece of 1/8" brazing rod. On your compass you will notice two ad-
justing screws, one for N-S and the other for E-W. On the heads of
these screws you will see a small dimple. With your new screwdriver
turn each screw until its dimple aligns with another dimple beside
the screw head. The compensating magnets in the compass itself
are now in the neutral position.
3. Now it is time to go flying (Don't forget that little screwdriver!). Make
sure any electrical or radio equipment is "on" At about 1000' agl:
a) Fly due north along the section line or road and adjust the N-S
screw to eliminate all error, making the compass heading agree
exactly with the magnetic heading you calculated.
b) Fly due east and adjust the E-W screw to eliminate all error, as
above.
c) Fly due south and adjust the N-S screw to remove one half of any
error.
d) Fly due west and adjust the E-W screw to remove one half of any
error.
e) In turn, fly due N, E, S and W, recording your compass readings
on that piece of paper.
If your compass readings agree with the corresponding magnetic headings
within a couple or three degrees (It's unlikely that anyone can fly a
compass
course more accurately than that in a Pietenpol), you are in business. But
you have numbers for only the four cardinal points of the compass, and the
deviation for the intermediate points will have to be estimated or obtained
by plotting a "deviation curve", which I won't get into here. Now you can
pre-
pare your compass correction card.
If you live where there are no section lines, you will have to use a
"compass
rose" or a "master compass" to "swing" your compass. Taildraggers must
have the tail up in flying position with the engine running. The procedure
is
similar to that given above and you will be able to determine the deviation
for the intermediate compass points quite easily, and since you are on the
ground you won't have to wait for a windless day for good results. But you
won't have an excuse to go flying, either.
Cheers,
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tool and "craftsmanship" ramblings... |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tool and "craftsmanship" ramblings...
>
>> My point is: Many of us aren't "craftsmen". We love airplanes, and
stupid
> us, we actually think we can muster what it takes to actually build one of
> them. When I see all the talk of the expensive equipment that you really
> "need" to build a Piet, and all the skill that's required, it makes me
think
> that maybe there's someone out there thinking about "giving up" because
they
> don't have the tools or skills required to build a Piet. But not me.
>
> >Gary,
Above are the lines that made me respond. That should put everyone back on
track. When I started my project, I had an old but good table saw that I
thought I'd get alot of use out of. Well it turned out that I didn't use,
not even ONCE!
My shop consists of a Delta table top drill press ( about $130.00) and a
Delta 10" band saw (about the same) both from Home Depot. As for me, the
band saw is THE most important tool in the shop. It makes a smooth cut with
wood that a table saw could never make. It's good to cut all the wood and
the aluminum ( both with a wood blade).
It would be a shame if someone was considering a Piet. and trying to eek out
the funds for the spruce, then get the idea that if he can't afford
"Norm's" workshop, that he just couldn't swing it, and give up.
Come look at my shop that's a 10X20' dug out celler with 2 power tools in
it.
walt
on the gear,with one wing left to cover
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tool and "craftsmanship" ramblings... |
In a message dated 12/15/01 2:05:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,
gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com writes:
<<
How about somebody stepping up and telling just how FEW expensive tools
they used in building their Piet! I have about $1000 invested in power tools
and a small gas welding rig.
Keep up the banter and activity - it's fun to have an active list,
regardless of whether or not we agree, we can all learn something from each
other! The compass stuff was great, good info and good fun!
Gary Meadows
Spring, Texas
(Fuselage, tailfeathers, and ribs pretty much done, I force-landed my Cessna
Cardinal last week with a busted jug, I'm taking my CFI ride in 6 days, and
I'm adding the IA to my A&P mid next year......yeah, I love airplanes!) >>
Congrats (hopefully) on the CFI and IA.
I was wondering same thing myself. I don't have the table saw, drill press,
or bandsaw. I was thinking a benchtop table saw, belt/disc sander, as well as
the router and jig saw I already have would be sufficient. Mostly hand tools.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Older Pieters,
While on a recent trip down south I met a few old pilots who informed me of
an organization which meets annually at KEOKUK,Iowa called, I think, The
International Liason Pilots Association or something close to that. Do any of
you belong or know anything about it. I would have a lot of friends eligible,
if still living.
Corky in North La with a belly full of good Nawl'ins food. Found a new
restuarant. If any one is interested E-mail me and I'll give you the
particulars. It's like finding a treasure.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:Power tool advice |
| From: | john e fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
Kip,
I have a 10" Sears bandsaw which I have used throughout the project. I
have used it for cutting almost everything except for the raw boards into
the dimensioned pieces. I wouldn't want to be without it. The 10" size
is fine. When you need to cut a longer piece than that, you just cut it
a little long, then flip it around and recut it at the exact length you
need. The wastage is really minimal, and most of the members we are
cutting are so small that the double cutting is not a chore.
I second the recommendation for buying a very high quality blade for the
table saw. Also the litle combo disc sander, belt sander I would
consider a must .
I have not yet started on the metal parts, and do not yet own a grinder,
so I cannot address that issue.
John in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gil G." <gil(at)keskydee.com> |
Hello,
I just signed on and thought I would introduce myself:
My recent interest for Pietenpols probably comes from ultralight
flying in France, (where I lived until eight years ago before moving
to Florida) towing advertising banners along the coast over the
English Channel. I got my private licence in Sarasota, FL.
Actually, some people here may know me as the administrator of
the Aircraft Builders Mailing List, which is now hosted on
planenews.com.
I first thought about building a fast plane, like a Cassut IIIM ! I even
have a set of drawings for a Midget Mustang... But I miss landing
on grass, in pastures, and with an open cockpit... Not to mention
the idea of a second seat..
My primary concern with the Piet though is that I am 6'2'' tall. I
heard about the long fuselage, but is it really long enough?
( I am not concerned so much about width..)
Have a great week-end, sincerely,
Gil.
--
http://planenews.com
PGP public key at:
keskydee.com/gil.asc
ICQ: 3310801
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | tools and craftsmanship ;Gary Meadows |
In the spirit of the titled posting from the gentleman from Spring, TX, I am submitting
my list of tools for the edification of the Piet list.............please
don't share it with our more sophisticated brethern lest they think of us
as less than millenial.
My longerons, rib caps, fuselage diagonals and all the tail pieces were eagerly
ripped by two friends. Having them do it accomplished two things,1. gave them
warm and fuzzy feelings having helped a fledgeling and 2. allowed them the satisfaction
of informing their mates about how great it was that they bought that
$1500 table saw so they could lend a helping hand to one less fortunate than
they. I always tried to do something for them in return and have now made a
couple of more good friends!
My plywood was cut with my 1968 vintage Sears saber-saw. The blade was not identifiable
but looked "about right" for the job. The edges were finished with a
piece of sandpaper wrapped around a scrap of spruce.
Speaking of spruce; I got everything I needed from a couple of lumber companys
in WI. Seems they stock it for iceboat construction and sailboat masts. They graciously
let me pick out the pieces I wanted. No, I don't live in WI but since
I was at Brodhead anyway........... My spars are the only certified wood in
the project. After getting jerked around by Aircraft Spruce, I ordered them from
Wicks.
My landing gear legs were cut to angle by another friend who had just bought a
chop saw and was eager to try it out. It works fine Fred, thanks. The shaping
of the legs was with a pocket knife, rasp, and sandpaper.
Steel parts were cut with my armstrong-powered hacksaw and a fairly expensive blade
from the local hardware (worth the price), finished in my 2 1/2" hobby vise
with a hand file and emory cloth.
Aluminum was cut with snips from the same hardware store and finished with a file
and sandpaper.
My holes were drilled with a hand-cranked drill or an electric drill depending
on what was being drilled and how much control I wanted to have.......sometimes
the electric drill just didn't seem right for the job.
I painted the whole shebang with a used $80 Wagner sprayer from Home Depot. Guess
what? It's an HVLP machine JUST like the $6-800 kind!!
That's about all I can recall at the moment. Of course I'd love to have a well
lighted shop full of top-of-the-line tools but I was able to build
my entire airplane without having a pile of money tied up in stuff that I might
not use again. In the seven years it's taken me to go from a set of plans to
a real-live airplane, I made many friends and have preserved the "flavor" of what
I believe Mr. Pietenpol's memory is about. But that's just me!!!
Now, having told on myself and evoked images in your minds of some hick-built plane
that will be an embarassment to the marque, my Piet has gotten great reviews
from tech counselors, a&p's, other Piet builders, airport
bums and my wife, SO THERE!
See y'all
Larry ;-) (that means "a wink and a smile")
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Marinucci" <srmjem(at)ezol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tools and craftsmanship ;Gary Meadows |
Good for you Larry. I thought for awhile I was the only one putting a Piet
together without a shop full of tools that would make Norm Abrams envious.
The one power tool that I consider indispensible is the belt/disc sander I
picked up from Lowes for $89.00. I use it for both wood and metal pieces.
Sam
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Tool and "craftsmanship" ramblings... |
For what it's worth, most of my wood was cut by hand using my old Stanley
miter rig. Ply was cut with an old craftsman jig saw.
Most of the metal tubing for the controls was with a hacksaw.( the bell
housing for the corvair was by hand also) The metal sheets I cut with my air
cutoff tool. The good ole angle grinder was working a lot. My five speed
central machinery drill press bore the holes. Oxy torch setup is a must.
And I did it all in my basement and living room. ( with a budget that
squeaks.) That's the beauty of the Piet. You can go fancy shop or bare
bones.
Carl ( finishing the engine and covering the tailfeathers)
N 40044
Please visit my website at
www.megsinet.net/skycarl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of walter evans
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tool and "craftsmanship" ramblings...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tool and "craftsmanship" ramblings...
>
>> My point is: Many of us aren't "craftsmen". We love airplanes, and
stupid
> us, we actually think we can muster what it takes to actually build one of
> them. When I see all the talk of the expensive equipment that you really
> "need" to build a Piet, and all the skill that's required, it makes me
think
> that maybe there's someone out there thinking about "giving up" because
they
> don't have the tools or skills required to build a Piet. But not me.
>
> >Gary,
Above are the lines that made me respond. That should put everyone back on
track. When I started my project, I had an old but good table saw that I
thought I'd get alot of use out of. Well it turned out that I didn't use,
not even ONCE!
My shop consists of a Delta table top drill press ( about $130.00) and a
Delta 10" band saw (about the same) both from Home Depot. As for me, the
band saw is THE most important tool in the shop. It makes a smooth cut with
wood that a table saw could never make. It's good to cut all the wood and
the aluminum ( both with a wood blade).
It would be a shame if someone was considering a Piet. and trying to eek out
the funds for the spruce, then get the idea that if he can't afford
"Norm's" workshop, that he just couldn't swing it, and give up.
Come look at my shop that's a 10X20' dug out celler with 2 power tools in
it.
walt
on the gear,with one wing left to cover
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesJboyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tool and "craftsmanship" ramblings... |
In a message dated 12/14/2001 11:05:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> I love tools, but I'm starting to feel a little embarrassed! Or, maybe
> I'm
> suffering from tool envy - all I have are the low-end Sears benchtop drill
> press, table saw, band saw, and router table. Every one is absolute low-end
>
> stuff! I also
Hi Gary,
I have almost the same exact set of tools you have. They have worked fine to
get my fuselage, ribs, tail surfaces all done. Soon as I finish the metal
fitting for the fuselage I will put the side sheeting on the fuselage and it
will be on wheels; Hooray!
Mine too have some tool marks on the pieces but it'll fly fine when covered.
Cheers, Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
GPS and other stuff is great and in the right situation, as one of our
eloquent writers points out, can really save your bacon. But, as we
all agree, it's no substitute for pilotage.
I keep one with me all the time, but pushing the buttons is not what I
like. Here's what I like.....
Landing at new airports to get gas, meet people and look at the neat
toys in the hangers.
Working out a difficult crosscountry on paper.
My oldest E-6 (not even a 6b).
Watching a kid's face on their first climb out.
B.S.'ing with my buddies in email.
Memorizing the patterns of roads and railways so I recognize the towns
by sight.
New friends.
Old airplanes that make noise and leak oil.
Worn out sectionals.
Arriving at the next turn point by compass, exactly on heading.
Walking up to a group admiring my airplane.
More new friends.
PIC, from the back seat.
Waving to farmers after circling the town water tower.
Wheel landings in front of all the good old boys in the hanger..
Landing in a field to bum gas and ask directions.
Noticing that the line boys greet me by name and go back for rags and
windex.
Warming my hands on the cylinders after the first landing on a cold
day..
Viewing a sunset through the prop disk.
Larry
(...and some people wonder why I wanna build a Piet...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tool and "craftsmanship" ramblings... |
>
>In a message dated 12/14/2001 11:05:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com writes:
>>
>> I love tools, but I'm starting to feel a little embarrassed! Or, maybe
>> I'm
>> suffering from tool envy - all I have are the low-end Sears benchtop drill
>> press, table saw, band saw, and router table. Every one is absolute low-end
>>
>> stuff! I also
OK,OK Everyone!
I sure seem to have set off one of the more spirited discussions in the
past few weeks (the UK spar thread notwithstanding). I'm sure I could build
a good, flying Piet using only the tools I currently own - I've sure built
enough other stuff over the years with them - some of it even got 'not bad'
comments from Yankee types who are not known for being overly generous with
compliments.
Once,long ago, I got to watch an old Chesapeake Bay boatbuilder put
together an absolutely gorgeous skiff in about 3 days with nothing but a
dozen or so hand tools and access to a planer, so I know what can be done.
My hat's off to all you 'Suthin' bretheren who are whittling your Piets
with your Barlow knives :).
My main reason for asking about tools in the first place was to get a good
idea of what people considered 'essential ' & 'good enough'. Like
everything else on this list, opinions sure ran the spectrum. I don't want
to spend a bundle on tools, although for the first time in my life, I am in
a position to spend a few hundred $ on a few good ones, so I that's why I
asked.
I couldn't agree more that one of the beauties of this plane is that it CAN
be built as simply or as sophisticated as you want, what an amazing thing
in today's world.
Cheers & Happy Whittlin' Everyone!
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fishin" <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
Don't know of the Keokuk group, but here up north is a group called "Silver
Wings" consisting of quite a few WW2 heavy metal drivers ever a retired Rear
Admiral.The only requirement for membership is one must have soloed 25+
years ago. In the group are several 80+ year old active pilots. At 63 years
young, I'm one "kids" that show up. Formal luncheons are held quarterly
which feature very interesting speakers. One of which was the co-pilot of
Bocks Car. Those of you old enough will know what Bocks Car accomplished.
regards
JoeC N99621 In cold wet NE corner of IL where winter is trying to sneak
in
>Older Pieters,
>While on a recent trip down south I met a few old pilots who informed me of
>an organization which meets annually at KEOKUK,Iowa called, I think, The
>International Liason Pilots Association or something close to that. Do any
of
>you belong or know anything about it. I would have a lot of friends
eligible,
>if still living.
>Corky in North La with a belly full of good Nawl'ins food. Found a new
>restuarant. If any one is interested E-mail me and I'll give you the
>particulars. It's like finding a treasure.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS is okay... |
Larry;
That hit the nail smack dab on the head........add one other....
The satisfaction of flying through the sky in something YOU built and
realizing the frustrations, splinters in the fingers, cursing, cuts and
bruises was all worth it!
Chris House
smilin' in sunny Arizona where I think it's COLD out whe the temp drops
below 80 degrees
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Tim Webber ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Tim Webber
Subject: Moving Map Display
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/tbertw@tenbuckplans.com.12.16.2001/index.html
--------------------------------------------
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________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 12/16/01 9:16:49 AM Central Standard Time, fishin(at)wwa.com
writes:
<< One of which was the co-pilot of
Bocks Car. Those of you old enough will know what Bocks Car accomplished. >>
Boxcar was the B29 that dropped the 2nd bomb, on Nagasaki.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Fittings |
Kirk,
I went and looked at Dale and Greg's fittings. They really look nice and I
am building mine the same.
I wonder if might know the answer to this question. If you build tail
feather fittings like theirs when do you bolt them on? Before covering with
the bolt underneath or after covering with them laying loose until you punch
a hole to put the bolt through?
Thanks, Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk & Laura Huizenga" <kirkh@unique-software.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Section Fittings
<kirkh@unique-software.com>
>
> >:
> >
> >-For the wire brace fittings, did you bolt the fittings directly to the
main
> >and center beams so that the fitting, except for the connection tab, will
be
> >under the fabric covering? Or did you put a spacer under the fitting to
> >build it up flush, and bolt the fitting on top of the fabric so it is
> >exposed?
>
> I've seen both ways. I think for the fittings it is easier and
> cleaner (not aerodynamically) to make it flush and have them on the
> outside of the fabric.
>
>
> >-Same question for the elevator and rudder control horns. The plans for
the
> >horns show a 1 inch opening, but do not show a spacer to build the main
beam
> >up to that thickness.
>
> Again, I've seen both. My horns were tight around the main beam, but
> I am going to rebuild them to be flush. 1/16" or 1/8" plywood is the
> plan for spacers
>
> >
> >
> >It seems that putting all of these fittings flush on top of the fabric
will
> >have a lot of bolts and nuts showing and produce more drag. Does it
matter
> >aerodynamically or aesthetically?
>
> I'd say that those bolts are the least of drag concerns for a Piet
> :-) Aesthetically --- that's up to you. I kind of like the look of
> off color, external fittings on some piets and the smooth covered
> fittings on others.
>
> Check out the pictures below of Dale Johnson and Greg Cardinal's
> fittings. They are creating an award winning aircraft IMHO.
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/khuizenga (you can ignore the navigation
> and tailwheel file)
>
> Kirk
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fishin" <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
><< One of which was the co-pilot of
> Bocks Car. Those of you old enough will know what Bocks Car accomplished.
>>
>
>Boxcar was the B29 that dropped the 2nd bomb, on Nagasaki.
the pilots name was Bocks, thus the name Bocks-Car
JoeC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Fittings |
Ted,
Build the pad underneath the fitting location flush so that when the fabric
goes over, it looks like nothing is there. Then when all the painting is
done, add the fittings and bolts and nuts. It should not be flush with the
surface. It will be nearly impossible to put fabric into a depression for
the fitting and hardware. Putting the fitting and hardware on after the
fabric is finsished makes it much easier to do the covering and it is easier
to inspect during your airworthiness inspeaction with the FAA/DAR and for
inspecting forever afterward.
chris bobka
tech counselor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Section Fittings
>
> Kirk,
>
> I went and looked at Dale and Greg's fittings. They really look nice and
I
> am building mine the same.
>
> I wonder if might know the answer to this question. If you build tail
> feather fittings like theirs when do you bolt them on? Before covering
with
> the bolt underneath or after covering with them laying loose until you
punch
> a hole to put the bolt through?
>
> Thanks, Ted
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirk & Laura Huizenga" <kirkh@unique-software.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Section Fittings
>
>
> <kirkh@unique-software.com>
> >
> > >:
> > >
> > >-For the wire brace fittings, did you bolt the fittings directly to the
> main
> > >and center beams so that the fitting, except for the connection tab,
will
> be
> > >under the fabric covering? Or did you put a spacer under the fitting
to
> > >build it up flush, and bolt the fitting on top of the fabric so it is
> > >exposed?
> >
> > I've seen both ways. I think for the fittings it is easier and
> > cleaner (not aerodynamically) to make it flush and have them on the
> > outside of the fabric.
> >
> >
> > >-Same question for the elevator and rudder control horns. The plans
for
> the
> > >horns show a 1 inch opening, but do not show a spacer to build the main
> beam
> > >up to that thickness.
> >
> > Again, I've seen both. My horns were tight around the main beam, but
> > I am going to rebuild them to be flush. 1/16" or 1/8" plywood is the
> > plan for spacers
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >It seems that putting all of these fittings flush on top of the fabric
> will
> > >have a lot of bolts and nuts showing and produce more drag. Does it
> matter
> > >aerodynamically or aesthetically?
> >
> > I'd say that those bolts are the least of drag concerns for a Piet
> > :-) Aesthetically --- that's up to you. I kind of like the look of
> > off color, external fittings on some piets and the smooth covered
> > fittings on others.
> >
> > Check out the pictures below of Dale Johnson and Greg Cardinal's
> > fittings. They are creating an award winning aircraft IMHO.
> >
> > http://homepage.mac.com/khuizenga (you can ignore the navigation
> > and tailwheel file)
> >
> > Kirk
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
Pieters,
Have been reading all the E-mail about compasses and wonder if I can put
in my two cents worth.
At the risk of sounding older than Corky, I got my private in 1949 in
Athens GA. I had purchased a 1939 J-3 with a Frankin engine from the
FBO there. Since I had been flying unlicensed aircraft in Washington
state, the instructor was pretty lenient with me and the cross county I
had to do was a real no brainer--"follow the highway to" etc.
With a new legal ticket, I took off for Seattle. The first part of the
trip I landed more times off airport than on and always had to ask
whoever came out to see what was going on "where is the nearest
airport?". No matter how well I prepared for the next day's flying,
wind triangles, compass courses, tick marks, and time, check points and
brackets, I was always lost. Finally in desperation, I really started
really using the sectionals and correlating what I saw with what was on
the map. At that point, I really began to enjoy this 10 day trip, new
vistas opened up. I tell friends that I "flew west until I got to the
Pacific Ocean, then turned right and went to Seattle."
Larry Neal is right, don't worry too much about compasses, GPS etc,
these aids are fine, but for real enjoyment learn pilotage. And this is
the reason we build Pietenpols.
Oh yes, the reason that I was lost most of the time was that we found
the compass had a 23 degree error!
John Dilatush, NX114D
Salida, CO dilatush(at)amigo.net
"Just have to finish the machine to make the prop, then make to prop and
go flying!"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [ PLEASE READ ] : Matronics Network Upgrade Mon. 12/17/01 |
Listers,
According to my ISP, Speakeasy, they will be doing some sort of "backbone
upgrade" Monday, 12/17/01. Their message doesn't mention whether or not
this will impact connectivity for any length of time. I wanted everyone to
know that there might be a time when access to the Matronics Web Server and
Email Lists might be unavailable. If there's a problem, I'll post a
message from a different email address with details.
Bottom line: Hopefully nobody will notice...
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
Corky,
I have heard of the organization let me do some research. I looked in the
copy of Ken Wakefield's The Fight Grasshoppers but found no reference to any
organizations other than the L-wing of the Confederate Air Force in San
Antonio. I will send a copy of your email to the head of The Cub Club. He
should know,
Chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ILPA ?
>
> Older Pieters,
> While on a recent trip down south I met a few old pilots who informed me
of
> an organization which meets annually at KEOKUK,Iowa called, I think, The
> International Liason Pilots Association or something close to that. Do any
of
> you belong or know anything about it. I would have a lot of friends
eligible,
> if still living.
> Corky in North La with a belly full of good Nawl'ins food. Found a new
> restuarant. If any one is interested E-mail me and I'll give you the
> particulars. It's like finding a treasure.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | I still have some books and videos left from the booksale |
The EAA Chapter (25) that I am treasurer for still has two books left
that some of you might want. I still have a brand new wrapped in
plastic copy of Bingelis Sportplane Construction Techniques and a brand
new still wrapped in plastic copy of Bingelis Firewall Forward. One
book is 17.50 psotpaid within the US or 34.00 for both.
We also have two new EAA videos left. One is called Beaver Country
about flying DHC Beavers in the Northland on floats. the other is
called The History of Seaplanes - In the Wake of Wings. One video is 10
bucks postpaid in the US or both for 18.00.
Chris bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
The Liaison group always meets the week end before Oshkosh in Keokuk, Iowa.
They have a newsletter but unfortunately, I don't have a copy in front of me
as just returned a stack of newsletters to headquarters. I will ask for
particulars when I talk to HG.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
http://www.eaa.org for latest flying rules
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ILPA ?
Corky,
I have heard of the organization let me do some research. I looked in the
copy of Ken Wakefield's The Fight Grasshoppers but found no reference to any
organizations other than the L-wing of the Confederate Air Force in San
Antonio. I will send a copy of your email to the head of The Cub Club. He
should know,
Chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ILPA ?
>
> Older Pieters,
> While on a recent trip down south I met a few old pilots who informed me
of
> an organization which meets annually at KEOKUK,Iowa called, I think, The
> International Liason Pilots Association or something close to that. Do any
of
> you belong or know anything about it. I would have a lot of friends
eligible,
> if still living.
> Corky in North La with a belly full of good Nawl'ins food. Found a new
> restuarant. If any one is interested E-mail me and I'll give you the
> particulars. It's like finding a treasure.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Fittings |
Ted,
You can do either. It depends on the look you want. My Piet originally had
fabric covering the bolts, but I am going to cover first and then have the
fittings on the outside and poke holes through the fabric at the pre-drilled
holes. One could argue that the having the fittings on the outside increases
drag, but I think that is a small concern - we are talking about an Aircamper,
not a Lancair.
I think Dale and Greg are going to have their fittings on the outside.
Have a great day
Kirk
Ted Brousseau wrote:
>
> Kirk,
>
> I went and looked at Dale and Greg's fittings. They really look nice and I
> am building mine the same.
>
> I wonder if might know the answer to this question. If you build tail
> feather fittings like theirs when do you bolt them on? Before covering with
> the bolt underneath or after covering with them laying loose until you punch
> a hole to put the bolt through?
>
> Thanks, Ted
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirk & Laura Huizenga" <kirkh@unique-software.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Section Fittings
>
> <kirkh@unique-software.com>
> >
> > >:
> > >
> > >-For the wire brace fittings, did you bolt the fittings directly to the
> main
> > >and center beams so that the fitting, except for the connection tab, will
> be
> > >under the fabric covering? Or did you put a spacer under the fitting to
> > >build it up flush, and bolt the fitting on top of the fabric so it is
> > >exposed?
> >
> > I've seen both ways. I think for the fittings it is easier and
> > cleaner (not aerodynamically) to make it flush and have them on the
> > outside of the fabric.
> >
> >
> > >-Same question for the elevator and rudder control horns. The plans for
> the
> > >horns show a 1 inch opening, but do not show a spacer to build the main
> beam
> > >up to that thickness.
> >
> > Again, I've seen both. My horns were tight around the main beam, but
> > I am going to rebuild them to be flush. 1/16" or 1/8" plywood is the
> > plan for spacers
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >It seems that putting all of these fittings flush on top of the fabric
> will
> > >have a lot of bolts and nuts showing and produce more drag. Does it
> matter
> > >aerodynamically or aesthetically?
> >
> > I'd say that those bolts are the least of drag concerns for a Piet
> > :-) Aesthetically --- that's up to you. I kind of like the look of
> > off color, external fittings on some piets and the smooth covered
> > fittings on others.
> >
> > Check out the pictures below of Dale Johnson and Greg Cardinal's
> > fittings. They are creating an award winning aircraft IMHO.
> >
> > http://homepage.mac.com/khuizenga (you can ignore the navigation
> > and tailwheel file)
> >
> > Kirk
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Denny <peterthepilot_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I still have some books and videos left from the booksale |
Chris, Consider the two videos sold
Peter denny
The EAA Chapter (25) that I am treasurer for still has two books left
that some of you might want. I still have a brand new wrapped in
plastic copy of Bingelis Sportplane Construction Techniques and a brand
new still wrapped in plastic copy of Bingelis Firewall Forward. One
book is 17.50 psotpaid within the US or 34.00 for both.
We also have two new EAA videos left. One is called Beaver Country
about flying DHC Beavers in the Northland on floats. the other is
called The History of Seaplanes - In the Wake of Wings. One video is 10
bucks postpaid in the US or both for 18.00.
Chris bobka
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
| Subject: | Blade stabilizers |
Larry,
I just finished truing my Craftsman saw too. The blade was about
1/64" out at the back. I thought that was ok, but it binded cutting. My
saw adjusts by slipping shims between the motor and mount. Incredibly, (it
took 3 attempts,) but it is dead on! I measured with a dial indicator
screwed to a stick, then clamp the stick to the mitre gage. Measure a tooth
at the front, rotate the same tooth back, measure again and figure out what
to adjust. Of course I had to remove the slop the mitre gage had first, by
using a pin punch to expand the side of the bar just a bit, so it still
slides but without the slop.
I'm going for those blade stabilizers too, and a thin kerf blade.
By the way, I don't know if all circular saw blades are 1/16" thick, but
mine is. It's 7", (7 1/4" ? ) but would probably work fine on the
tablesaw.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Neal [mailto:llneal2(at)earthlink.net]
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 12:06 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Blade stabilizers
>
>
>
>
> I'm after 'em as soon as Sears opens tomorrow.
>
> I just finished truing my Craftsman table saw. I thought I
> couldn't saw well,
> but found my blade was out of alignment with the miter slot
> by 1/16" or more
> difference front to back!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Fittings |
Kirk,
You are correct. Dale and I are putting the fittings on the outside of the fabric.
Greg Cardinal
>>> Kirk Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com> 12/17 7:34 AM >>>
Ted,
You can do either. It depends on the look you want. My Piet originally had
fabric covering the bolts, but I am going to cover first and then have the
fittings on the outside and poke holes through the fabric at the pre-drilled
holes. One could argue that the having the fittings on the outside increases
drag, but I think that is a small concern - we are talking about an Aircamper,
not a Lancair.
I think Dale and Greg are going to have their fittings on the outside.
Have a great day
Kirk
Ted Brousseau wrote:
>
> Kirk,
>
> I went and looked at Dale and Greg's fittings. They really look nice and I
> am building mine the same.
>
> I wonder if might know the answer to this question. If you build tail
> feather fittings like theirs when do you bolt them on? Before covering with
> the bolt underneath or after covering with them laying loose until you punch
> a hole to put the bolt through?
>
> Thanks, Ted
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirk & Laura Huizenga" <kirkh@unique-software.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Section Fittings
>
> <kirkh@unique-software.com>
> >
> > >:
> > >
> > >-For the wire brace fittings, did you bolt the fittings directly to the
> main
> > >and center beams so that the fitting, except for the connection tab, will
> be
> > >under the fabric covering? Or did you put a spacer under the fitting to
> > >build it up flush, and bolt the fitting on top of the fabric so it is
> > >exposed?
> >
> > I've seen both ways. I think for the fittings it is easier and
> > cleaner (not aerodynamically) to make it flush and have them on the
> > outside of the fabric.
> >
> >
> > >-Same question for the elevator and rudder control horns. The plans for
> the
> > >horns show a 1 inch opening, but do not show a spacer to build the main
> beam
> > >up to that thickness.
> >
> > Again, I've seen both. My horns were tight around the main beam, but
> > I am going to rebuild them to be flush. 1/16" or 1/8" plywood is the
> > plan for spacers
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >It seems that putting all of these fittings flush on top of the fabric
> will
> > >have a lot of bolts and nuts showing and produce more drag. Does it
> matter
> > >aerodynamically or aesthetically?
> >
> > I'd say that those bolts are the least of drag concerns for a Piet
> > :-) Aesthetically --- that's up to you. I kind of like the look of
> > off color, external fittings on some piets and the smooth covered
> > fittings on others.
> >
> > Check out the pictures below of Dale Johnson and Greg Cardinal's
> > fittings. They are creating an award winning aircraft IMHO.
> >
> > http://homepage.mac.com/khuizenga (you can ignore the navigation
> > and tailwheel file)
> >
> > Kirk
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Two things my FAA guy either missed or let me slide on was
I did not have a compass correction card (still do not) nor an
ELT (still do not).
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Fittings |
Ted,
I fought that fitting problem but finally decided to build up flush with
plywood, cover and place the small fittings out where it will be simple to
attach. As far as drag is concerned, if one should be concerned on a Piet,
I've an old can of Johnson's Floor Wax in the garage which will be applied
generously throughout the airplane. I'll bet it will increase the A/S at
least 8%. The holes are already drilled and fittings identified per position.
Keep working so we can eat some good food.
Corky, just coasting along in La getting things ready for the Fed man
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim <tbertw(at)tenbuckplans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what he missed |
List,
I have talked to a DAR about inspecting my Challenger II. He agrees that a
ELT does not have to be installed during the initial 40 hour flyoff because
the aircraft is being flown solo.
Tim
>
>
>Two things my FAA guy either missed or let me slide on was
>I did not have a compass correction card (still do not) nor an
>ELT (still do not).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Blade stabilizers |
Kent,
A thinner blade, while using up less material in cutting the kerf, will also
not be as rigid as a thicker one. Is there a concern with this as far as
maintiain trueness while cutting. Will harder wood near one side of the
kerf force the blade to deflect the other way?
I prefer to use the 1/8" thick carbide tipped blades with more TPI than
less. They cut through the wood like butter and very accurate. The top
limit on TPI is based on the thickness on the wood and hence, the ability of
the gullets to hold cut material before dumping it out beyond the cut. For
the thin wood we cut, it is negligible. Optimally, you also want to have at
least two teeth in the material at any one point in time. That is why I go
for max TPI.
Turn your saw on with a thin blade while some flourescent lights are on in
your shop to get the strobe flicker and as the blade comes up to speed,
watch the "wave" in the blade. Scares me. Anyone?
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten(at)Governair.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Blade stabilizers
>
> Larry,
> I just finished truing my Craftsman saw too. The blade was about
> 1/64" out at the back. I thought that was ok, but it binded cutting. My
> saw adjusts by slipping shims between the motor and mount. Incredibly,
(it
> took 3 attempts,) but it is dead on! I measured with a dial indicator
> screwed to a stick, then clamp the stick to the mitre gage. Measure a
tooth
> at the front, rotate the same tooth back, measure again and figure out
what
> to adjust. Of course I had to remove the slop the mitre gage had first, by
> using a pin punch to expand the side of the bar just a bit, so it still
> slides but without the slop.
> I'm going for those blade stabilizers too, and a thin kerf blade.
> By the way, I don't know if all circular saw blades are 1/16" thick, but
> mine is. It's 7", (7 1/4" ? ) but would probably work fine on the
> tablesaw.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Larry Neal [mailto:llneal2(at)earthlink.net]
> > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 12:06 AM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Blade stabilizers
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm after 'em as soon as Sears opens tomorrow.
> >
> > I just finished truing my Craftsman table saw. I thought I
> > couldn't saw well,
> > but found my blade was out of alignment with the miter slot
> > by 1/16" or more
> > difference front to back!
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: what he missed |
Two things my FAA guy either missed or let me slide on was
I did not have a compass correction card (still do not) nor an
ELT (still do not).
Mike C.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Same here, but I bought an ELT last year.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
PS: check your compass to the runway heading.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: what he missed |
Mike,
An ELT is not a required item, per se. Domestically, if you fly more than
50 miles from your home airport in an aircraft with at least one additional
seat beyond that for required crewmember(s), then it is required. There is
an exclusion for air carriers and other certain operators that have a
"flight following" system set up as part of their FAA approved operations
specifications.
So, if you build a Sky Scout or a single seat Pitts, no ELT required. When
your ship was originally signed off, your practice area was most likely a
place that physically kept you within the 50 mile radius. The inspector had
no need to make the requirement. He could then further assume that you
never intended to fly the aircraft beyond the 50 mile radius even after you
flew of the hours. But he also has the last laugh.
Since ramp checks love to look at things like the required battery
expiration sticker mounted on the outside of your ELT and compass correction
card, it would behoove you to take care of these before you go somewhere and
are "visited". It has happened to me and always when I have my gaurd way
down. The compass correction card is required to have a value for at least
every thirty degrees of heading. So you need 0, 30, 60, 90, etc. Make it
up if you have to. Just have it there for the feds.
Besides, all in all, an ELT is a good thing. It could save your life one
day. Transponders and that stuff....now that is where I have to draw the
line. ATC still manages to crash transponder equipped aircraft into each
other.
chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: what he missed
>
> Two things my FAA guy either missed or let me slide on was
> I did not have a compass correction card (still do not) nor an
> ELT (still do not).
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
| Subject: | Blade stabilizers |
Chris,
I picked up a 120 tooth blade ,inexpensive but carbide tips.
Thought I would save it for plywood. How would that do for ripping our
softwoods? with so many teeth the gullets are not deep. It should be good
for cross cuts and mitres. I did crosscut some 2x4's and it was good, but I
haven't tried ripping with it.
Kent
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christian Bobka [mailto:bobka(at)charter.net]
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:41 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Blade stabilizers
>
>
(SNIPPED)
the cut. For
> the thin wood we cut, it is negligible. Optimally, you also
> want to have at
> least two teeth in the material at any one point in time.
> That is why I go
> for max TPI.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
I stumbled across a bargain bin at the local tree nursery, of all places,
when we went to get our Christmas tree. C-clamps in 2 or 3 different
sizes, and those small bar type clamps. Just perfect for the Piet.
$1.98 each!! I wiped them out of all 15 clamps.
He- he
Kent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "james cooper" <blugoos1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | shoulder harnesses, seat belts, & engine mount |
My partner and I have taken over a GN-1 project with a steel tubing
fuselage and would like ideas on how to attach shoulder harnesses & seat
belts for both the front and rear seats. Diagrams or photos would be
most helpful, if anyone has any they would be willing to share. Also
would like to get an idea of the distance that might be necessary for
proper weight & balance in the engine mount between the firewall and the
engine. Our engine is a C-85 with an electric start and generator. We
already have a J-3 engine mount with a distance of about 9 inches, but
can acquire one from EAPS (formerly Replicraft) with a distance of 13"
or 14". Thanks, Jim Cooper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Blade stabilizers |
Kent,
It should work fine for everything except maybe ripping the spar, thich I
doubt you need to do since most by the spar to the correct size.
Chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten(at)governair.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Blade stabilizers
>
> Chris,
> I picked up a 120 tooth blade ,inexpensive but carbide tips.
> Thought I would save it for plywood. How would that do for ripping our
> softwoods? with so many teeth the gullets are not deep. It should be
good
> for cross cuts and mitres. I did crosscut some 2x4's and it was good, but
I
> haven't tried ripping with it.
>
> Kent
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Christian Bobka [mailto:bobka(at)charter.net]
> > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:41 AM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Blade stabilizers
> >
> >
> (SNIPPED)
>
> the cut. For
> > the thin wood we cut, it is negligible. Optimally, you also
> > want to have at
> > least two teeth in the material at any one point in time.
> > That is why I go
> > for max TPI.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel A McNeill" <dmcneil3(at)mindspring.com> |
Hey All,
I've been lurking here for a while. The Piet talk and banter is interesting
and great fun. Here is the URL for ILPA http://www.centercomp.com/ILPA/
There is lots of information there on the website for anyone interested...
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ILPA ?
The Liaison group always meets the week end before Oshkosh in Keokuk, Iowa.
They have a newsletter but unfortunately, I don't have a copy in front of me
as just returned a stack of newsletters to headquarters. I will ask for
particulars when I talk to HG.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
http://www.eaa.org for latest flying rules
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ILPA ?
Corky,
I have heard of the organization let me do some research. I looked in the
copy of Ken Wakefield's The Fight Grasshoppers but found no reference to any
organizations other than the L-wing of the Confederate Air Force in San
Antonio. I will send a copy of your email to the head of The Cub Club. He
should know,
Chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ILPA ?
>
> Older Pieters,
> While on a recent trip down south I met a few old pilots who informed me
of
> an organization which meets annually at KEOKUK,Iowa called, I think, The
> International Liason Pilots Association or something close to that. Do any
of
> you belong or know anything about it. I would have a lot of friends
eligible,
> if still living.
> Corky in North La with a belly full of good Nawl'ins food. Found a new
> restuarant. If any one is interested E-mail me and I'll give you the
> particulars. It's like finding a treasure.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
Dan, On the links for the web site you gave us... MMMMM... is that L-4
Pucker gage for real? LMAO!!
Kent
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel A McNeill [mailto:dmcneil3(at)mindspring.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:51 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ILPA ?
>
>
>
>
> Hey All,
>
> I've been lurking here for a while. The Piet talk and banter
> is interesting
> and great fun. Here is the URL for ILPA
> http://www.centercomp.com/ILPA/
> There is lots of information there on the website for anyone
> interested...
>
> Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Chris----All good loopholes that we used on our Champ and
now this Piet to avoid having an elt. And don't forget the one
where you don't need an elt when flight testing the aircraft
after maintenance. I consider checking the oil maintenance:))
I would borrow one if I were ever to fly over mountains or on long
overwater flights with Corky and Ted when we go to........and
undisclosed location that sells ping pong balls cheap for alternative
flotation support.
Mike C.
(not the one in Pretty Prarie, Kansans, but the one in drizzly, cloudy,
in Cleveland, Ohio where the football fans proved to be total idiots in
yesterdays loss)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ELT loopholes |
Mike,
Don't be distressed about your cousins' conduct yesterday in Cleveland. These
actions plus many more have been going on at Tiger Stadium in Baton Rouge
since they built the stadium and admitted the first cajun.
Corky, half-cajun in La rebuilding his throttle linkage and installing a
different fuel cut off system. I might never finish this thing if I continue
to try to improve upon what I completed 6 months ago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
-----
I stumbled across a bargain bin at the local tree nursery, of all
places,
when we went to get our Christmas tree. C-clamps in 2 or 3 different
sizes, and those small bar type clamps. Just perfect for the Piet.
$1.98 each!! I wiped them out of all 15 clamps.
He- he
Kent
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This may be of interest to the group, from the Horizon - 1 group.
<>>>
Mike B - Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: what he missed |
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
You don't need a ELT till you time is flown off.
Dale Mpls carving a prop for the Pete.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Blade stabilizers |
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
Carbide blades are nice but I just had a tooth come of my good 60 tooth
blade.
The tooth went right through the window in my shop.
So wear safety glasses.
A friend of mine had a tooth come of and went into his chest.
Dale Mpls.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: what he missed |
In a message dated 12/17/01 10:39:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tbertw(at)tenbuckplans.com writes:
<< I have talked to a DAR about inspecting my Challenger II. He agrees that a
ELT does not have to be installed during the initial 40 hour flyoff because
the aircraft is being flown solo.
Tim >>
Does that mean: If I have a single place Piet (Scout) I don't need to worry
about an ELT ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: compass interference |
Hi again Lutz....I just found your Web site after I e-mailed you. It
answered some of my questions. very nicely done, you must have quite a bit
of time invested in it. Your plane looks great, congratulations on finding
her. The best Ed Grentzer
>From: Lutz Gebhardt <gebhardt(at)iag.uni-stuttgart.de>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass interference
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:03:43 +0100
>
>
>
>Hi Ed,
>
>I wouldn't take those comments neither too personal nor too serious. In
>general
>I don't post to the list, but I have been subscribed to it for many years
>now
>already - back to when it was on another server and administered by Steve
>Eldredge. The tone has always been rather polite and helpful, without the
>flaming and what-else-do I know now so prevalent in many Usenet groups.
>So just look beyond it, ignore the occasional sarcasm and keep reading and
>posting. Remember - there are no dumb questions, just dumb answers ...
>
>Best Regards,
> Lutz
>
>(Stuttgart, Germany)
>
>--
>1962 Jodel DR.1050 Ambassadeur D-EHIE s/n 291 'Heidi'
><http://www.jodel.com/~lutz/>
>lutz(at)jodel.com
>
>
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
Sorry guys...That post to Lutz was supposed to go to him personally in
Germany. Ed G.
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Manthe <gmanthe(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | please remove me from list |
Please remove me from list. Best wishes everyone.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K. and J. Hallsten" <hallstenokc(at)home.com> |
That's a good idea, I couldn't resist the price on these, though.
Kent
Michael Brusilow wrote:
>
>
> This may be of interest to the group, from the Horizon - 1 group.
>
> < wasteand
> vent pipe. The larger the diameter the better (6" is best, but 2"
> works).
> Slice off rings about 1/4 to 1/2" thick. Now slice through ring
> radially at
> one place only so the ring looks like the letter "C" when spread open.
>
> Voila!
> Instant clamp. The 2'" ones are real bulldogs and the 6" ones are
> pretty
> weak, but you can control the "squeeze" factor but the thickness of
> your
> slice >>>>
>
> Mike B - Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Blade stabilizers |
Actually, Dale, tell the truth. The carbide tooth went halfway through your
window. The inner pane of glass is busted but not the outer pane. And the
tooth is not in between.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Blade stabilizers
>
> Carbide blades are nice but I just had a tooth come of my good 60 tooth
> blade.
> The tooth went right through the window in my shop.
> So wear safety glasses.
> A friend of mine had a tooth come of and went into his chest.
> Dale Mpls.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: what he missed |
If you have a single seat airplane, you will never have to install an ELT.
chris bobka
tech counselor
----- Original Message -----
From: <Dmott9(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what he missed
>
> In a message dated 12/17/01 10:39:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> tbertw(at)tenbuckplans.com writes:
>
> << I have talked to a DAR about inspecting my Challenger II. He agrees
that a
> ELT does not have to be installed during the initial 40 hour flyoff
because
> the aircraft is being flown solo.
>
> Tim >>
> Does that mean: If I have a single place Piet (Scout) I don't need to
worry
> about an ELT ?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Tim Webber ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
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Subject: More Alan Wise Pix
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
"Pietenpol-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Blade stabilizers |
I'm sorry I didn't think of this sooner but it was several years ago. When
I got my Craftsman table saw, I had to make three adjustments. There was a
stop for the 0 angle cut and there was a stop for the 45 angle cut, both
from an adjustment screw on the top. The third was the angle that everyone
is currently talking about. As I recall, that adjustment was performed by
adjusting a set screw located on the underside of the fence behind the
sliding flat. Typically, that's how the larger saws are adjusted for this
runout and I think that's how these small saws are adjusted as well. I'm
just not sure.
Robert Haines
Murphysboro (middle left of the bottom 1/3), Illinois
>
> Larry,
> I just finished truing my Craftsman saw too. The blade was about
> 1/64" out at the back. I thought that was ok, but it binded cutting. My
> saw adjusts by slipping shims between the motor and mount. Incredibly,
(it
> took 3 attempts,) but it is dead on! I measured with a dial indicator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Michelle Brant" <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | getting started (Finally) |
I just have to get in a blurb... I'm finally getting started. I
ordered my wood from McCormicks lumber and I should have it by the end
of the week. I guess Christmas with the family will just have to wait.
Tom Brant, MPLS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Blade stabilizers |
I looked last night, the Craftsman benchtop does not have those adjustments.
I must have been thinking of another saw.
Robert H.
> As I recall, that adjustment was performed by
> adjusting a set screw located on the underside of the fence behind the
> sliding flat.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
| Subject: | Blade stabilizers |
Sears changes designs like we change socks. The manual with my saw said to
adjust 3 screws on TOP of the table. No screws. I call customer service
and a very helpful guy said I had a newer model of my model. They sent me
shims for the motor mount. My blade is straight now, but it would have been
easier with adjusting screws on top.
Kent
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Haines [mailto:robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 7:32 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Blade stabilizers
>
>
>
>
> I looked last night, the Craftsman benchtop does not have
> those adjustments.
> I must have been thinking of another saw.
>
> Robert H.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters: An old hand and I were yesterday discussing covering systems. The
last job of covering he used, which he said was very simple, was from some
outfit in Jacksonville, Arkansas. He can't remember the name of the concern.
Can anyone on this net help with this search? He said it was a three step
operation without any sanding.
Corky in La looking ahead
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hofmann" <jhofmann(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for: |
Here you go Corky. Air Tech Coatings.
TakeCare,
-john-
http://www.airtechcoatings.com/
>
> Pieters: An old hand and I were yesterday discussing covering systems. The
> last job of covering he used, which he said was very simple, was from some
> outfit in Jacksonville, Arkansas. He can't remember the name of the
concern.
> Can anyone on this net help with this search? He said it was a three step
> operation without any sanding.
> Corky in La looking ahead
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: getting started (Finally) |
In a message dated 12/19/2001 12:11:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tmbrant(at)uswest.net writes:
<< I just have to get in a blurb... I'm finally getting started. I
ordered my wood from McCormicks lumber and I should have it by the end
of the week. I guess Christmas with the family will just have to wait.
Tom Brant, MPLS >>
Good news ! Glad to hear you got the wood orderd.
Where and what is McCormicks ? If you don't mind,
how much wood did you order and at what prices ?
-dennis the menace, in Tennessee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hofmann" <jhofmann(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: getting started (Finally) |
McCormick's is in Madison Wisconsin, a little over an hour from my house. If
anyone is interested I can make a run there and let all know what they keep
in stock. They are known for aircraft quality (though not necessarily
certified) spruce.
http://www.mccormicklumber.com/
Here is their website.
TakeCare,
-john-
>
> Tom Brant, MPLS >>
> Good news ! Glad to hear you got the wood orderd.
> Where and what is McCormicks ? If you don't mind,
> how much wood did you order and at what prices ?
> -dennis the menace, in Tennessee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for: |
Thanks John
Do you know anything about their system? Quality, prices etc?
Corky in La counting his pennies before covering
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for: |
Corky,
First hand experience:
I used 100 Latex, similar of the Fisher method but
latex finish, see Kitplanes Dec 2001 page 108.
For a better finish use the same method, but instead
of finishing with latex color, use Dupont Imron (or
similar) with a product here known as "flexible" (in
spanish. This product is used as an aditive to to
prevent the paint from cracking when aplied over
plastic parts, as the piece that goes between the
bumper and the radiator grill in the slant six dodge
cars. Remember?
This way you will have a beatifull gloss and no
cracks, for very little money... Use the money for
gasoline to go to breakfast fly inns...
If you want to I can send you a photo of a Koala (503
Rotax).
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- John Hofmann wrote:
>
>
> Here you go Corky. Air Tech Coatings.
>
> TakeCare,
> -john-
>
>
> http://www.airtechcoatings.com/
> >
> > Pieters: An old hand and I were yesterday
> discussing covering systems. The
> > last job of covering he used, which he said was
> very simple, was from some
> > outfit in Jacksonville, Arkansas. He can't
> remember the name of the
> concern.
> > Can anyone on this net help with this search? He
> said it was a three step
> > operation without any sanding.
> > Corky in La looking ahead
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Swanson" <swans071(at)tc.umn.edu> |
| Subject: | getting started (Finally) |
I bought my spar lumber there. They have 20' boards, both in 4/4 and 5/4
rough sawn. I bought there over a year ago, but the quality was very high.
I bought early so they would have a year or two to season in my hangar.
They let me pick through the stock for as long as I wanted, and were great
to work with. After I cut out the best spots for the spars, I will probably
have enough left over for another plane!
Al Swanson
swans071(at)tc.umn.edu
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Hofmann
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: getting started (Finally)
McCormick's is in Madison Wisconsin, a little over an hour from my house. If
anyone is interested I can make a run there and let all know what they keep
in stock. They are known for aircraft quality (though not necessarily
certified) spruce.
http://www.mccormicklumber.com/
Here is their website.
TakeCare,
-john-
>
> Tom Brant, MPLS >>
> Good news ! Glad to hear you got the wood orderd.
> Where and what is McCormicks ? If you don't mind,
> how much wood did you order and at what prices ?
> -dennis the menace, in Tennessee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hofmann" <jhofmann(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for: |
> Thanks John
> Do you know anything about their system? Quality, prices etc?
> Corky in La counting his pennies before covering
Corky et al.,
Covering always seems to be a controversial subject and I have kept my two
cents out of it to this point. But now I will add it. This area for the
homebuilder (Piet builder especially) offers more options than the certified
world. There you are limited to a system, however this system generally only
goes through the ultraviolet barrier and not the top coats. I have
covered/recovered a dozen or so aircraft and have various thoughts and ideas
on the subject. Some of the finest homebuilts I have seen were Piets and
then again some of the worst I have seen were also Piets. So here are my
pennies:
1. Keep it light.
2. Keep it light.
3. Keep it light.
4. Just because it is an experimental aircraft, how experimental do the
methods have to be when safety is concerned? Hopefully we are using quality
wood and aircraft grade fasteners. Does that mean we deviate from that
practice when covering and finishing an aircraft? Steve Wittman did his tail
section on the OandO Special like he had always done them in the past
instead of following the manufacturer's directions. He paid for it with his
life when the covering peeled off. Granted, a Pietenpol will not be flying
on those high Mach numbers but why take the chance?
5. No need to buy certificated fabric. The manufacturers even admit it all
comes off the same roll, but that PMA stamp adds tons to the price. So buy
uncertificated Dacron from any supplier. Also buy the lightest weight fabric
you can find. At Piet speeds there is no reason to use higher weight fabric.
6. I have heard the stories of the house paint and all that. for UV
protection. That is fine but is not how I will choose to do that. I am
leaning towards the AFS system on this project out of curiosity more than
anything else, but again it is also a certified system. The key with UV
protection is to not be able to see a light bulb on the other side of the
fabric. I like Silver as UV protection from the standpoint of aesthetics and
history. Since a Pietenpol is a link to the past then using the materials of
the past is kinda cool. If you go the Polyfiber or Ceconite route, why not
leave your wings in Silver as a testament to the way a Travel Air or
aircraft of that ilk was finished It looks antiquey and is also light in
weight.
7. Keep it light.
8. Just about all ways of fastening the Dacron to the airframe are very
similar. Slightly different glues but the process of gluing and shrinking is
practically the same. DO NOT use a heat gun EVER. Calibrate your iron and do
not use one the missus (or you) will be using for clothing. Get your own.
Get a good one. Go to the local hobby shop and get one of those Monokote
irons. You will need it. I prefer the blanket method of fabric attachment
vs. the envelope. No unsightly seams makes for a cleaner looking finish.
Easier to control the fabric shrinking using the blanket method too. One
more thing, make sure metal parts that will touch fabric glue are painted
with epoxy and not polyurethane or enamel. The glues will lift the paint and
introduce the possibility of corrosion to the metal part.
9. Keep it light.
10. Shiny old airplanes are the work of the devil. Lightplanes of the past
had a matte finish. Only the high dollar Lears of the 30's (Staggerwings and
such) had a gloss finish. That was accomplished through lots of top coats
and lots of sanding. Of course shiny is a personal choice. If the AFS system
has a shine, so be it, but I will not strive for that type of finish. Don't
try to hide your tapes. That adds weight. Don't worry about filling the
weave. That adds weight. Two crosscoats should be plenty of dope/paint.
11. Paint schemes are also highly personal, but I have found that certain
paint schemes and colors really make a Piet look classy. Simple two color
schemes like Blue/Cream, Blue/Orange, Red/Maroon, Anything/Cream with a
simple bullet panel or fishhook stripe on the side of the fuselage is an
extremely attractive design. I also like the big numbers on the wings ala
the way it was. Oh yeah, If going this way with the numbers, get an N number
with lots of 8s and 6s. That way when you buzz a member of the "great
unwashed" and he/she gets angry, he/she will have a hard time identifying
you by N number when he/she calls the local FSDO. A logo under the cockpit
also looks great. Look and Mike Cuy's or Frank Pavliga's. They are simple
schemes and look fantastic.
12. Topcoats. Use what you like but remember Polyurethane such as IMRON is
very toxic. It is not enough to wear a mask. I learned the hard way. Gain
from my experience. Now if I have to spray polyurethane, I wear a full suit
with forced air filtered from outside of the shop. That is the only way to
be safe. It is also very expensive and can be quite heavy. From past
experience it was easier to fix a dope or Polytone finish too if I screwed
up. I also use an HVLP system when spraying. That is the way to go in my
opinion. Polytone or dope is a good link to the past if you are a history
buff like me.
13. Cost to cover? I am budgeting about 2000 for materials. That may be low
but I am a good scrounger. Non aircraft type coverings will be less
expensive of course. I think one could probably squeak by at 1000 to 1500 or
so depending on how much equipment like spray guns and stuff one has to buy.
14. Keep it light.
15. My paint scheme will be simple. Hunter Green/Cream with a gold separator
stripe and the Johnny SkyRocket Special logo under the rear pit. Looking for
a Walter Mikron engine if anyone has a line on one. That little inverted 65
hp four cylinder screams Pietenpol!
I am way too windy and need to go home now.
TakeCare,
-john-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for: |
Thanks John,
That wasn't easy.
I too am afraid of that 2 part urethan process and will probably just go with
the poly system to be safe. It's going to COST no matter which way one goes.
Thanks for you interest and help. Hope to keep the covering under 35 lbs.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
John,
Good thoughts on covering! Glad to know you will approve of my color
scheme, too (once it's finished). My Pietenpol will be Forest Green
fuselage and vertical tail, Diana Cream wings and horizontal tail with a bit
of gold pinstriping and a logo on the fuselage, with the N numbers on the
wings (NX899JP), wire wheels uncovered and spruce landing gear struts left
in clear varnish. I am planning on using the PolyFiber process, but hadn't
decided what weight of fabric to use. Based on your comments I will
probably go with the 1.7 oz. Fabric.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Hofmann
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Looking for:
> Thanks John
> Do you know anything about their system? Quality, prices etc?
> Corky in La counting his pennies before covering
Corky et al.,
Covering always seems to be a controversial subject and I have kept my two
cents out of it to this point. But now I will add it. This area for the
homebuilder (Piet builder especially) offers more options than the certified
world. There you are limited to a system, however this system generally only
goes through the ultraviolet barrier and not the top coats. I have
covered/recovered a dozen or so aircraft and have various thoughts and ideas
on the subject. Some of the finest homebuilts I have seen were Piets and
then again some of the worst I have seen were also Piets. So here are my
pennies:
1. Keep it light.
2. Keep it light.
3. Keep it light.
4. Just because it is an experimental aircraft, how experimental do the
methods have to be when safety is concerned? Hopefully we are using quality
wood and aircraft grade fasteners. Does that mean we deviate from that
practice when covering and finishing an aircraft? Steve Wittman did his tail
section on the OandO Special like he had always done them in the past
instead of following the manufacturer's directions. He paid for it with his
life when the covering peeled off. Granted, a Pietenpol will not be flying
on those high Mach numbers but why take the chance?
5. No need to buy certificated fabric. The manufacturers even admit it all
comes off the same roll, but that PMA stamp adds tons to the price. So buy
uncertificated Dacron from any supplier. Also buy the lightest weight fabric
you can find. At Piet speeds there is no reason to use higher weight fabric.
6. I have heard the stories of the house paint and all that. for UV
protection. That is fine but is not how I will choose to do that. I am
leaning towards the AFS system on this project out of curiosity more than
anything else, but again it is also a certified system. The key with UV
protection is to not be able to see a light bulb on the other side of the
fabric. I like Silver as UV protection from the standpoint of aesthetics and
history. Since a Pietenpol is a link to the past then using the materials of
the past is kinda cool. If you go the Polyfiber or Ceconite route, why not
leave your wings in Silver as a testament to the way a Travel Air or
aircraft of that ilk was finished It looks antiquey and is also light in
weight.
7. Keep it light.
8. Just about all ways of fastening the Dacron to the airframe are very
similar. Slightly different glues but the process of gluing and shrinking is
practically the same. DO NOT use a heat gun EVER. Calibrate your iron and do
not use one the missus (or you) will be using for clothing. Get your own.
Get a good one. Go to the local hobby shop and get one of those Monokote
irons. You will need it. I prefer the blanket method of fabric attachment
vs. the envelope. No unsightly seams makes for a cleaner looking finish.
Easier to control the fabric shrinking using the blanket method too. One
more thing, make sure metal parts that will touch fabric glue are painted
with epoxy and not polyurethane or enamel. The glues will lift the paint and
introduce the possibility of corrosion to the metal part.
9. Keep it light.
10. Shiny old airplanes are the work of the devil. Lightplanes of the past
had a matte finish. Only the high dollar Lears of the 30's (Staggerwings and
such) had a gloss finish. That was accomplished through lots of top coats
and lots of sanding. Of course shiny is a personal choice. If the AFS system
has a shine, so be it, but I will not strive for that type of finish. Don't
try to hide your tapes. That adds weight. Don't worry about filling the
weave. That adds weight. Two crosscoats should be plenty of dope/paint.
11. Paint schemes are also highly personal, but I have found that certain
paint schemes and colors really make a Piet look classy. Simple two color
schemes like Blue/Cream, Blue/Orange, Red/Maroon, Anything/Cream with a
simple bullet panel or fishhook stripe on the side of the fuselage is an
extremely attractive design. I also like the big numbers on the wings ala
the way it was. Oh yeah, If going this way with the numbers, get an N number
with lots of 8s and 6s. That way when you buzz a member of the "great
unwashed" and he/she gets angry, he/she will have a hard time identifying
you by N number when he/she calls the local FSDO. A logo under the cockpit
also looks great. Look and Mike Cuy's or Frank Pavliga's. They are simple
schemes and look fantastic.
12. Topcoats. Use what you like but remember Polyurethane such as IMRON is
very toxic. It is not enough to wear a mask. I learned the hard way. Gain
from my experience. Now if I have to spray polyurethane, I wear a full suit
with forced air filtered from outside of the shop. That is the only way to
be safe. It is also very expensive and can be quite heavy. From past
experience it was easier to fix a dope or Polytone finish too if I screwed
up. I also use an HVLP system when spraying. That is the way to go in my
opinion. Polytone or dope is a good link to the past if you are a history
buff like me.
13. Cost to cover? I am budgeting about 2000 for materials. That may be low
but I am a good scrounger. Non aircraft type coverings will be less
expensive of course. I think one could probably squeak by at 1000 to 1500 or
so depending on how much equipment like spray guns and stuff one has to buy.
14. Keep it light.
15. My paint scheme will be simple. Hunter Green/Cream with a gold separator
stripe and the Johnny SkyRocket Special logo under the rear pit. Looking for
a Walter Mikron engine if anyone has a line on one. That little inverted 65
hp four cylinder screams Pietenpol!
I am way too windy and need to go home now.
TakeCare,
-john-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | paint 'n' finish |
Hello, Piet aficionados-
What the heck, it's close to Christmas so even though I don't have a Piet
started yet, I'll sit here and look under the tree and wish for what Santa
would bring me. A Pietenpol, pulled by 65 horses or so!
My Piet will have a paint job much like Steve Eldredge's. Love it! Green
fuselage, silver wings, big letters on the wings, and the "Air Camper" logo
on the side. Big letter on the tail (probably a "P" for Pietenpol, and I
don't care if the frightened millions on the ground get a good I.D. on me
anyway; but good luck seeing through all the smoke trail I've just laid!) I
agree with the person who said "keep it light"- use HS90X or equivalent
lightweight fabric where it will do, and just enough finish to keep UV out
and cover the fabric adequately. I do like the idea of keeping with the
simpler finishing methods like roller/brush rather than spray, the theory
being that builders back in those days didn't have our fancy HVLP rigs,
Imron, or any of that. Plus it gets the plane in the air sooner, causes
less grief when a gnat or two flies into the wet paint, and looks just fine
from 20 ft. away! Mike Cuy can be the showplane poster boy for the rest of
us with his beautiful paint job.
Really enjoyed the series of posts on tools. I did it the easy way: made
friends with a guy who has all the shop tools I need (table saw, planer,
band saw, air compressor, etc.) so all I have are less-expensive stuff and
hand tools. And my kids already know I want clicker torque wrenches for
Christmas (gotta do those bolts just right!)
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, Oregon
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: getting started (Finally) |
For all you in the Midwest, there is a place in Kansas City called Paxton
Lumber. (Of course, Wicks in right outside of St. Louis and they will sell
you fully dressed lumber at full price). Paxton sells rough lumber for
cabinet makers. So a few years ago when I was shopping for spruce, I
called, allthough spruce wasn't in there catalog. The salesman said, "sure,
we always keep a little on hand for those airplane guys." The cool thing is
that they also had a delivery route which extended into St. Louis. They
gave me the name of their customer on the edge of their route closest to me,
which was still about 100 miles away but at least wasn't on the other side
of Missouri. That customer was very helpfull, they unloaded and stored the
wood and called me to come pick it up. I think I paid about
$6.00/board-foot for rough sawn 4/4 lumber and planed it myself. I ended up
with planed lumber 7/8" thick which translated into more capstrips and
slightly thicker spars.
My suggestion is to call your regional lumber supplier catering to cabinet
makers. You might find one that keeps some "for those airplane guys".
Robert Haines
Murphysboro, Illinois
P.S. - In light of last week's emails regarding the misunderstanding of some
tounge-in-cheek comments, here's my disclamers:
I will not write an email intended to make fun of anyone other than me. I'm
a light hearted good-ol'-boy, although somewhat of a smart-ass and sarcasm
sometimes creeps into my conversation. I will reserve that behavior for
only those who I consider a friend. I consider all of you my friends.
I'm not a know-it-all although I write like I'm one. I'm addicted to this
email list because there is so much to learn. Please forgive me if I get a
little long winded.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Nice afternoon ride in the Piet |
Gents,
Just had a great hour long flight looking over the Kansas countryside from
200 feet; what a hoot! The 'A' was performing well in the dense cool
conditions, about 71-72 indicated mph @ 1650-1700 rpm (amazing), just a hint
of smoke. Next Piet is ready to license, Scout is getting its engine mount.
Babbitt work is now underway on the 'A' for the Scout as I now have the
equipment to pour and align bore. Don't give up on the planes guys, it sure
pays off in the end. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I just found a set of used wing struts at a local fbo. I think they are
from a tri-pacer. the major axis of the strut is 4 in. wide Has anyone
used struts that big? The rear struts are 2 3/8 in. Both are 1 in.
thick. I'm sure they will work, I'm just not sure if they will look ok
or be out of scale large.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jannica Wunge" <jannicaw(at)hotmail.com> |
Hello Pieters!
I would like to wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Last night
we got 4 of snow here in the north-west of Sweden and the temperature
is a few centigrade below zero. In other words, we are ready for Santa
Claus.
Since I wrote to the list last time I have received my set of plans and I
have persuaded a friend to become my EAA controller. I am now doing some
paperwork and some preparation before building the wingribs. My ship will be
constructed from Swedish fur with is 10% heavier than your spruce but
somewhat stronger. It is also much easier to obtain over here and much
cheaper. I will try to save the weight in the covering instead by using
light Ceconite and silver wings.
Tomorrow I am going to a small village here in Dalarna to have a look at a
rusty Subaru Touring 83 that a man is offering for 180 US$. It is
said to contain a good working Subaru EA 81 engine and if that is true it
will be a perfect Christmas gift for myself. Still, I am not sure that I am
going to use that engine in the end but I will probably learn a thing or two
by tearing it down and trying to convert it to aeroplane use.
I have a question for you. When I build model aeroplanes and they turn out
tail-heavy I use to put some lead in the nose, bolted to the engine mount or
the firewall. If I chose to use a modern engine like the Rotax 912 or a
Subaru conversion in my Air Camper and it turns out tail-heavy, could I then
proceed in the same manner? Do you do that in full scale aeroplanes? I do
not want to have a ridiculous long nose on my aeroplane.
Jannica Wunge
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
Among other comments, Jannica Wunge wrote:
> My ship will be
> constructed from Swedish fur with is 10% heavier than your spruce but
> somewhat stronger.
> I have a question for you. When I build model aeroplanes and they turn out
> tail-heavy I use to put some lead in the nose, bolted to the engine mount
or
> the firewall. If I chose to use a modern engine like the Rotax 912 or a
> Subaru conversion in my Air Camper and it turns out tail-heavy, could I
then
> proceed in the same manner?
There is a very good chance it will wind up tail-heavy. A friend built a
Piet
from Douglas fir, which sounds about equivalent to Swedish, and had to
move the wing several inches aft to get things balanced properly. This
was with a C-85. He now recommends using spruce at least in the tail
feathers, or using a combination of fir for the main load-bearing members
and pine for less heavily stressed pieces. (This is an Experimental
aircraft,
after all.)
It's been a while since I looked into Subaru engines, but my impression is
that even the EA-81 will wind up a bit heavier than the Continental engine,
though probably not as heavy as the Ford A. It should not be necessary
to add extra weight to the plane to balance things out; just move the wing
until the airfoil fits the c.g.
You can add weight if you absolutely have to, but give some thought to
how you can shave weight from the tail, rather than add it to the nose.
No one wants to carry any kilograms they don't have to.
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
Jannica,
I'm using spruce for the fuselage and spars, fir for everything else. I will be
using a corvair motor, so aft cg is likely. Here's my plan...
First I am paying particular attention to dimensions and measurement on all
parts in the aft of the ship, sanding the wood structure smooth and giving
straight surfaces a slight radius. I will clean up all glue runs etc. this
effort may save as much as 1/2 -1 pound at the tail if I'm lucky. ;-)
Next I'm not adding anything but a handheld radio, 6lb gellcell battery for the
corvair point ignition and a light, steerable tailwheel that I'm building
myself.
No starter, by the way. I'll use a rope tie-down when starting, but I've also
though of using a Schwiezer release hook. Maybe then I could try towing some
small gliders or ultralights, better check my FAR's on that one!
I intend to use off the shelf dacron, install with polytack and finish with as
little latex housepaint.as possible.
The engine mount and front cowl will be left for last. Once the airplane is
finished and covered, I can run a weight & balance on everything and calculate
the locations for engine and battery. If the battery cannot be moved far enough
forward, then I'll extend the engine mount by the correct amount.
Larry
Jannica Wunge wrote:
>
> Hello Pieters!
> I would like to wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Last night
> we got 4 of snow here in the north-west of Sweden and the temperature
> is a few centigrade below zero. In other words, we are ready for Santa
> Claus.
> Since I wrote to the list last time I have received my set of plans and I
> have persuaded a friend to become my EAA controller. I am now doing some
> paperwork and some preparation before building the wingribs. My ship will be
> constructed from Swedish fur with is 10% heavier than your spruce but
> somewhat stronger. It is also much easier to obtain over here and much
> cheaper. I will try to save the weight in the covering instead by using
> light Ceconite and silver wings.
> Tomorrow I am going to a small village here in Dalarna to have a look at a
> rusty Subaru Touring 83 that a man is offering for 180 US$. It is
> said to contain a good working Subaru EA 81 engine and if that is true it
> will be a perfect Christmas gift for myself. Still, I am not sure that I am
> going to use that engine in the end but I will probably learn a thing or two
> by tearing it down and trying to convert it to aeroplane use.
> I have a question for you. When I build model aeroplanes and they turn out
> tail-heavy I use to put some lead in the nose, bolted to the engine mount or
> the firewall. If I chose to use a modern engine like the Rotax 912 or a
> Subaru conversion in my Air Camper and it turns out tail-heavy, could I then
> proceed in the same manner? Do you do that in full scale aeroplanes? I do
> not want to have a ridiculous long nose on my aeroplane.
> Jannica Wunge
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
Have builders used heavy fir for everything up front, with light spruce in
the rear to help even things out?
Kent
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 12/20/01 |
Hi gang:
There is a fella near me that has an A engine complete right out of a
car. Wants 350 bucks for it. Is that a fair price?
Ryder In Burnham
ps: made a couple of ribs last month.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jannica Wunge" <jannicaw(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail heavy?
Jannica,
You suggested in your E-mail that you might use a EA 81 Subaru engine, and
you were concerned about the center of gravity using Fur. I have just
finished up my Piet except for making the prop and might make a couple of
comments.
I used Douglas Fir (about 23% heavier and 25% stronger than Sitka spruce)
for all of the major load bearing parts of the airframe, such as spars,
beams, longerons etc. The balance of the airframe is built of Engleman
Spruce such a ribs, truss pieces etc. Since Pietenpols tend to be somewhat
tail heavy, I was not concerned about using a slightly heavier engine than
the original Model A Ford that Mr. Pietenpol used.
I decided to use an EA 82 turbocharged Subaru. This weighed in at 222
pounds complete with the turbo, alternator and starter. In comparison, I
found that Model A engines averaged about 260 pounds. However, there is a
catch to this. The Model A can be used as a direct drive power unit,
whereas the Subaru must be geared down. The Subaru, (Turbo EA82) develops
it's maximum horsepower at 4800 rpm. And the engine that you are looking
at, EA81, needs to turn 5500 to develop it's maximum horse power.
I wanted to turn my prop at the same rpm as the Model A engine turned at
cruise, which is about 1600 rpm. Therefore, I needed to make a prop
reduction drive with a ratio of 2.35:1. This unit, along with the mount and
misc. brackets brought the firewall foward weight up to about 300 pounds.
Back to the CG problem. With the cabane struts vertical, the center of
gravity has come in at 17.6" aft of the wing leading edge. This is right at
the middle of the 15" to 20" range as suggested by Mr. Pietenpol. In order
to do this, I had to tuck the engine right up next to the firewall, but this
gives the short nose moment of the original Model A design.
In summary, if you use a converted auto engine even though it is a little
heavier, the center of gravity problem is going to be ok because of the
inherent tail heaviness of the original design. The downside of an auto
engine substitution is there is a lot more work involved in both the
construction and engineering. (except for the Corvair unit). A lighter
weight engine will agravate the center of gravity problem unless you stick
it way out there. Then this may create some directional stability problems.
For more information about a Subaru installation, you might contact Duane
Woolsey at dlwooley(at)home.com or Steve Eldridge, a friend of Duane's at
steve(at)byu.edu . Duane built an award winning Pietenpol using a EA 81 Subaru
engine a couple of years ago. Hope that all this helps in your decision.
John Dilatush, NX114D
dilatush(at)amigo.net
>
> Hello Pieters!
> I would like to wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Last
night
> we got 4 of snow here in the north-west of Sweden and the
temperature
> is a few centigrade below zero. In other words, we are ready for Santa
> Claus.
> Since I wrote to the list last time I have received my set of plans and I
> have persuaded a friend to become my EAA controller. I am now doing some
> paperwork and some preparation before building the wingribs. My ship will
be
> constructed from Swedish fur with is 10% heavier than your spruce but
> somewhat stronger. It is also much easier to obtain over here and much
> cheaper. I will try to save the weight in the covering instead by using
> light Ceconite and silver wings.
> Tomorrow I am going to a small village here in Dalarna to have a look at a
> rusty Subaru Touring 83 that a man is offering for 180 US$. It is
> said to contain a good working Subaru EA 81 engine and if that is true it
> will be a perfect Christmas gift for myself. Still, I am not sure that I
am
> going to use that engine in the end but I will probably learn a thing or
two
> by tearing it down and trying to convert it to aeroplane use.
> I have a question for you. When I build model aeroplanes and they turn out
> tail-heavy I use to put some lead in the nose, bolted to the engine mount
or
> the firewall. If I chose to use a modern engine like the Rotax 912 or a
> Subaru conversion in my Air Camper and it turns out tail-heavy, could I
then
> proceed in the same manner? Do you do that in full scale aeroplanes? I do
> not want to have a ridiculous long nose on my aeroplane.
> Jannica Wunge
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
What do you all think about putting the UV protection coat on only the top
and side surfaces? Would that be a acceptable trade-off for weight savings?
Robert Haines
Murphysboro, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
Is correct, maybe there will be some damage from
reflection, but will be minimal, for example, the
Voyager (Rutan's around the world airplane) was not
even painted under the wings, for weight savings.
I did that (latex paint all the plane and no black
latex in the underside) in my Ultralight plane, was
finished in august, so still waiting for UV damage
records, no damage noticed until last saturday :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Robert Haines wrote:
> Haines"
>
> What do you all think about putting the UV
> protection coat on only the top
> and side surfaces? Would that be a acceptable
> trade-off for weight savings?
>
> Robert Haines
> Murphysboro, Illinois
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Hello Pieters!
.
I have a question for you. When I build model aeroplanes and they turn
out
tail-heavy I use to put some lead in the nose, bolted to the engine
mount or
the firewall. If I chose to use a modern engine like the Rotax 912 or
a
Subaru conversion in my Air Camper and it turns out tail-heavy, could
I then
proceed in the same manner? Do you do that in full scale aeroplanes? I
do
not want to have a ridiculous long nose on my aeroplane.
Jannica Wunge
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I don't think I would use a rotex engine, but if you do, the nose will
extend all the way to Norway.
There are cases of people adding weight to the motor mount, in order
to move the CG fwd.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Swanson" <swans071(at)tc.umn.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 12/20/01 |
Ryder,
I paid $200 for mine about 1 1/2 years ago, but it had been in a garage for
20 years. I had it magnafluxed to be sure there were no cracks in the block
or crank. It is now being overhauled with new pistons, valve guides, babbit
bearings, etc etc. My guy suggested undersizing the pistons a bit, so that
in the event of an oiling failure the engine would run longer before it
seized. I also bought a Dan Price aluminum head to save weight and boost
compression to 6:1.
It should be done be next spring, can't wait to hear that distinctive purr
of the engine!
Al Swanson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
ToySat(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 12/20/01
Hi gang:
There is a fella near me that has an A engine complete right out of a
car. Wants 350 bucks for it. Is that a fair price?
Ryder In Burnham
ps: made a couple of ribs last month.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Robert,
If you look in the polyfiber manual, they will tell you that the dacron
polyester fabric ( and I guess in spite of system, it's all the same) is
only damaged by direct sunlight , unlike the old fabrics like cotton and
linen.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: UV on top
>
> What do you all think about putting the UV protection coat on only the top
> and side surfaces? Would that be a acceptable trade-off for weight
savings?
>
> Robert Haines
> Murphysboro, Illinois
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Kent,
I always put the heaviest wood in the front. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 12/20/01 |
You could do better, you could do worse. If there's no block damage,
has some "meat" left to bore out again, the carb, manafolds, water and
oil pumps are included, it's a good deal.
I paid $150 and got a block that was bored 0.070 over with no valves
or valve springs, included the manafolds, rebuildable (read: needs
work) carburator, water and oil pumps.
For a compairison, check out the core prices from some of those
rebuild shops...
$200 - for a block
$100 - for a crank
$100 - for a cam shaft
$ 80 - for a head
valve cover, connecting rods, pan, timing cover...
$570 for the long block and then you need a carb, manafolds, and water
pump. And that's the core price only, then they rebuild it from
there.
Robert Haines
M'boro, Southern Illinois
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 12/20/01
>
>
> Hi gang:
>
> There is a fella near me that has an A engine complete right
out of a
> car. Wants 350 bucks for it. Is that a fair price?
>
> Ryder In Burnham
> ps: made a couple of ribs last month.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | off topic-merry christmas |
Hi Friends..
Just some words
I would like to thanks to all people off this list,
and to the people that made posible this for all that
i have learned on this year about Piets, Engines,wood,
Etc.
A good point for the group was not let to Corky let
his project down, and congrats to him for remain with
us..good for Corky
I would like to say too much, but my english is not
enought.. just let me wish to all off you the best
Christmas and a very happy 2002.....Expecting many
Piets projects finished the next year (the mexican
Piet also)
Thanks again.. maintein building and flying..
Javier Cruz
Fuselage,empenage,main and tail landing gear, fly
controls, engine mount, finished,, working now on the
Corvair engine..(expecting that it will be running on
january)..
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: off topic-merry christmas |
Javier,
Your english is great, and the words are wonderful.
I wish I had said that...
Feliz Navidad Amigo!
Larry
javier cruz wrote:
>
> Hi Friends..
>
> Just some words
> I would like to thanks to all people off this list,
> and to the people that made posible this for all that
> i have learned on this year about Piets, Engines,wood,
> Etc.
> A good point for the group was not let to Corky let
> his project down, and congrats to him for remain with
> us..good for Corky
> I would like to say too much, but my english is not
> enought.. just let me wish to all off you the best
> Christmas and a very happy 2002.....Expecting many
> Piets projects finished the next year (the mexican
> Piet also)
> Thanks again.. maintein building and flying..
>
> Javier Cruz
>
> Fuselage,empenage,main and tail landing gear, fly
> controls, engine mount, finished,, working now on the
> Corvair engine..(expecting that it will be running on
> january)..
>
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: off topic-merry christmas |
Thanks for the kind words Javier, I was wondering what
you have done to lighten the corvair engine if
anything, or anybody else who is working on a corvair.
I am trying to put my vair on a diet and get it down
to 190 to 200 lbs. I am experimenting with cutting off
the heavy intake manifolds and installing a light
weight aluminum tubing system. I know that the engine
is light enough for the piet, but I am working on
another project that it needs to be lighter. I am
close on my piet and it will have the vair also.
Del
--- javier cruz wrote:
>
>
> Hi Friends..
>
> Just some words
> I would like to thanks to all people off this list,
> and to the people that made posible this for all
> that
> i have learned on this year about Piets,
> Engines,wood,
> Etc.
> A good point for the group was not let to Corky let
> his project down, and congrats to him for remain
> with
> us..good for Corky
> I would like to say too much, but my english is not
> enought.. just let me wish to all off you the best
> Christmas and a very happy 2002.....Expecting many
> Piets projects finished the next year (the mexican
> Piet also)
> Thanks again.. maintein building and flying..
>
> Javier Cruz
>
> Fuselage,empenage,main and tail landing gear, fly
> controls, engine mount, finished,, working now on
> the
> Corvair engine..(expecting that it will be running
> on
> january)..
>
>
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 12/20/2001 11:25:46 PM Central Standard Time,
horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:
<< the major axis of the strut is 4 in. wide Has anyone
used struts that big? >>
Richard... I passed on a shot at TriPacer struts for that reason though
others may not find the 4-inch width objectionable. Just my 2c Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
May I throw my confederate nickel in: I too passed on the tri-pacer struts 1.
Tooooo heavy 2 Tooooooo wide,. Just looks tooooooooo large for the job
intended, but the price was right. I know where there is a pair for the
asking.
Corky in beautiful Louisiana living the goooooood life with his bride. I
don't know what it's going to be like during the sugar bowl game as Isabelle
hails from Illinois.
Also and most important, A Mary Christmas to all and lets not forget the
reason for the season. God Bless
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "twinboom" <twinboom(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: off topic-merry christmas |
Del,
LIghtning can be done in a few ways from I have studied. William Wynnes
book on converting is a great asset if you do not have it.
<http://www.flycorvair.com> Are you using the blower fan? That alone being
deleting is a savings of up to 25 lbs. Mr. Wynne has used that on hios
Pietenpol, and says you can sit on the ground for twenty minutes or so
before cooling becomes a problem. Not using electric start and hand
propping is another few pounds as well. Others will know more, but that is a
good place to start.
Doug Blackburn, Arrowbear Lake, So. Cal.
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca.
<http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/ISR>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: off topic-merry christmas - Starter |
Hello list,
I wish all of you a Merry Christmas, also from
Mexico... and loving the Piet since 1992...
I think posible the Corvair "light" conversion, for
starting you can use the Chainsaw starter (used on the
Newport 11 Dawm Patrol), the complete system including
Ryoby engine and bicycle chain weights about 4 lbs...
I think is powerfull enough to turn the Corvair engine
to life.
I am thinking on the Corvair (or similar engine), I
need an engine around the 200 lbs and about 100 hp
for my next project... the two seater Flying Flea.
Javier, I live in Guadalajara, hope next year we have
the chance to meet and I will be happy to look at your
project.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- twinboom wrote:
>
>
> Del,
> LIghtning can be done in a few ways from I have
> studied. William Wynnes
> book on converting is a great asset if you do not
> have it.
> <http://www.flycorvair.com> Are you using the blower
> fan? That alone being
> deleting is a savings of up to 25 lbs. Mr. Wynne has
> used that on hios
> Pietenpol, and says you can sit on the ground for
> twenty minutes or so
> before cooling becomes a problem. Not using
> electric start and hand
> propping is another few pounds as well. Others will
> know more, but that is a
> good place to start.
>
> Doug Blackburn, Arrowbear Lake, So. Cal.
> Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca.
> <http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/ISR>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I picked up the struts cheap. I may try to trade off the larger ones and
use the small ones. I also have an areonica strut from a fly market. That
is also a 2 3/8".
I have been working all weekend making the engine cowlings. Its a good
thing iut comes in large sheets, I ruined a couple of pieces even though I
made patterns. Fitting in the nose bowl is the last remaining challenge.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: <DonanClara(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing struts
>
> In a message dated 12/20/2001 11:25:46 PM Central Standard Time,
> horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:
>
> << the major axis of the strut is 4 in. wide Has anyone
> used struts that big? >>
> Richard... I passed on a shot at TriPacer struts for that reason though
> others may not find the 4-inch width objectionable. Just my 2c Don
Hicks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com> |
Has anyone found it neccesary or worth doing,
steaming the bottom capstrip for the ribs?
I'm making a form for the top capstrip and can use the bottom
of the form for the shape of the bottom capstrip.
Is it worth doing??
George Allen
Harrisburg, PA
GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
(wait'n for wood Peit'. builder)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
George,
I found that steaming the bottom rib wasn't necessary.
Tom
Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
George,
I steamed my top and bottom capstrips.
I think it gave a better curve and was easier to set up the jig with less
bending pressure to deal with.
This did not take too much time as I'd steam a batch for tomorrow's gluing
after putting today's rib in the jig.
However, if you will take a piece of capstrip in your hands and *slowly* bend
it you'll be amazed at the result. The whole discussion is really a matter of
a little more work up front or a little more patience right now when jigging.
The end results seem to be identical.
If anyone wants a good, cheap design for a capstrip steamer and mold, let me
know.
Larry
George Allen wrote:
>
> Has anyone found it neccesary or worth doing,
> steaming the bottom capstrip for the ribs?
> I'm making a form for the top capstrip and can use the bottom
> of the form for the shape of the bottom capstrip.
> Is it worth doing??
>
> George Allen
> Harrisburg, PA
> GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
> (wait'n for wood Peit'. builder)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
Has anyone seen a figure for the forwardmost C.G. for an Air Camper? Now, don't
everyone fall down on the floor laughing at the same time! I KNOW
that an Air Camper with a forward C.G. problem is one with the tail cut off just
behind the rear seat.
Mr. Pietenpol cautioned against going aft of a 20" C.G., but I've never seen anything
about the other extreme and I am going to use a rendition of Tony Bingelis'
wt/bal form which has a space for the most forward C.G.
Maybe the thing to do is just delete that particular box on the form or use the
abbreviated form on the coversheet of the plans. Observations................
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K. and J. Hallsten" <hallstenokc(at)home.com> |
Larry, I'd like to take a look at your steamer.
Kent
Larry Neal wrote:
>
> If anyone wants a good, cheap design for a capstrip steamer and mold, let me
> know.
>
> Larry
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | El Cheapo Capstrip Steamer |
All,
I sent this to a couple of folks, but keep getting requests so I guess
it's worth posting. Sorry I don't have pictures of these tools
available as I've already reused most of the materials, but I'll do my
best to describe them in text.
Again, a lot of folks don't seem to steam. I though it was fun and
maybe it made for a more accurate rib. I'd do it again, but I'll agree
that there may not be much difference between the two techniques.
For the capstrip molds, cut the capstrip curves from the plans into the
side of a couple of 2X6's with a sabersaw. One plank for the upper
capstrips, one for the bottoms.
The 2" edges will form the mold for up to three capstrips, side by
side. Inside or outside molds doesn't
matter but if you made a female mold the one for the upper strip would
be pretty thin in the middle.. Don't worry about being perfect or
really smooth cutting the curves as it all averages out.
I got fancy and used a router to cut slots through about 1/2" from the
surface of the molds to allow one jaw of the clamps to engage the mold
and the other to press the capstrip between the mold and some scrap ply.
Weights or big c-clamps would work fine too. Put pressure on the low
spots and the high spots as well, four clamps on each mold should do it
as you're really just locating the strips while they cool and dry out.
I also nailed a couple lengths of wood on the ends of the molds to allow
them to stay upright on the table with all the clamps sticking out.
For the steamer, get a gallon paint can and some cheap, thin gauge metal
tube, wide and long enough to hold six capstrips in width, plus a few
extra inches on the length. You will be shortening this tube in
construction and any extra length helps to hold in heat.
I bought a new (empty) paint can at the local Piet Center (Home Depot)
and a six foot section of thin walled fence post, for about five bucks.
Put the pipe in a vise and with a hacksaw cut slots lengthwise into one
end. I cut 8 but 12 might be better. The "petals" formed by these
slots will then be bent at 90degrees to form legs that are soldered to
the top of the paint can. Measure for the length of the petals to fit
the paint can lid and keep your tolerances close, as you will depend on
solder to hold the lid and tube together.
Bash the "petals" a lot with a hammer and vise. When you get a good fit
with the lid, solder the tube petals to the top of the paint can. As
the lid is sort of a cup, you could just fill it with solder, but I
managed a pretty good fit on the first try and it soldered up nicely
with very little plumber's acid core solder using a propane torch.
Next, drill about ten 1/16' or so holes through the can lid into the
tube. Assemble the can. High temperature silicon goop could be used if
you get any leaks. Don't worry about steam explosions, the paint can
will pop it's top safely if you've somehow found the hotplate from hell.
This gives you a bucket of boiling water below, a tube filled with steam
above and the small holes passing the steam into the tube but preventing
the capstrip from dropping into the water. I wrapped my tube with some
old fiberglass insulation and duct tape to conserve heat. I think a
tinfoil cap on the end helps keep the heat in while steaming too.
Be sure to measure the length of the capstrip by following the bends.
The chord of the wing is shorter than the length of the bent strips!
Fill the steamer with 3/4 gallon of water and put on a garden variety
(Walmart) hotplate. 1000 watts is good, I can't verify anything less or
more. Mine will steam for about three hours, but you only need 1 to 2
hours to get the job done. I used a bent coathanger attached to a shelf
and then wrapped around the tube so it would not fall over.
For best results, steam 6 strips at a time with 3/4 gallon of water for
2 hours. Don't use more or you'll end up with a geyser in your shop
like I did! Put in three strips cut to length for the upper mold and
three for the bottom. When done dump the water out, remove and form the
capstrips gently by hand to the shape of the molds, then clamp.
Use clean water and wear some canvas gloves as these puppies are hot.
When finished for the day, drain carefully and put the whole rig away
upside down to keep the bottom of the paint can from rusting out (yeah,
I did that too)..
Let the capstrips dry for at least 24 hours. Later, when they're ready
to go into the jig, they are a pleasure to work with and (I think) that
they will not distort your finished airfoil due to bending stresses.
Notes:
Make up a solid rib jig, I suggest a base board of that cheap plastic
coated shelving material sold at the Piet Center! It's stable and glue
doesn't stick much. Some folks have used lexan which sounds great as
glue will not stick to it.
Nevertheless, Coat the base board with auto wax and renew every few
ribs.
Measure, then cut all uprights identically before assembly, consistency
is everything.
Dimensional errors won't matter if you make all the parts the same!
Make up round wood pieces with a handle end and drill off center. When
bolted on to the rib jig in the undercamber area and rib nose they make
great little clamps.
You can also make clamps by gluing a small 3/8 block to a three inch
piece of capstrip. Bolt this with a wingnut to press down on gussets.
I used about 15 of them.
1x2" pieces of lexan won't stick to T-88. Make up a bunch and use
between vertical clamps and gussets. I cut up an old lean clipboard for
this, but they sell it in small sheets at the Piet Center.
Cut your 1/16" Gussets with a flatbed paper cutter, it works great!
Sand or scrape parts with a razor blade before gluing.
I found some neat little plastic spring clamps at Walmart for 50 cents
each. They work well putting the gussets on the back side of the rib
once removed from the jig.
T-88 is good stuff. I swear by it.
Good Luck!
Larry
(Now scarfing my way through Christmas)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Czaplicki" <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: El Cheapo Capstrip Steamer |
Subject: Pietenpol-List: El Cheapo Capstrip Steamer
FWIW---I didn't find it necessary at all to steam the cap strips. Built all
my ribs this way and had no trouble at all.
somply took a 3 foot length of 2" PVC pipe and caped one end. Filled it to
within 6-10" from the top and propped it up so as not to spill. day 1 put
first cap strip in water to soak over night, day 2 took soaking cap strip
from water and clamped in forming jig (as shown in Tony Bingilis book) put
2nd cap strip in the water. day 3 took dryed and formed cap strip from
forming jig and put in rib jig, took soaking cap strip and put in forming
jig and put fresh cap strip in water soaker. repeat the process each day and
had a freshly formed and dried cap strip ready for that days rib production.
Hope this makes. didn't find it necessary to heat water at all, was just
necessary to soak overnight.
regards and best Holiday Wishes to one and all.
The adventures not in the destination, it's in the trip
JoeC N99621
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: El Cheapo Capstrip Steamer |
And you completed one beautiful set of ribs.
Corky NX41CC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: El Cheapo Capstrip Steamer |
Yessir! Hanging on the garage wall now, for all to see.
After a family Christmas morning, I gave my favorite nephew's fianc her first
airplane ride in the Champ, did a bit of fiddling on the Piet with the
young'uns, enjoyed one of Miss Susanna's greatest suppers, and now receive a
fine email from the Corkster.
It just don't get much better than this...
Larry
Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> And you completed one beautiful set of ribs.
> Corky NX41CC
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Czaplicki" <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: El Cheapo Capstrip Steamer |
thanks Corky
Joe
>
> And you completed one beautiful set of ribs.
> Corky NX41CC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Fittings |
Greg,
My email server seemed to crash right after sending the message to the Piet
list. I just got on the archives and saw your response.
I didn't do a good job of stating my question. Here is my real question. I
like the way you have designed the horns. You have welded a channel to the
horn. The horns have to be under the fabric. So, my question deals with
how to attach the horns. Do you bolt them on before covering? Or, do you
lay them loose, cover and then bolt them down? I hope this question makes
sense. It would be easier if we were both looking at the picture together.
Thanks, Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Section Fittings
> Kirk,
>
> I went and looked at Dale and Greg's fittings. They really look nice and
I
> am building mine the same.
>
> I wonder if might know the answer to this question. If you build tail
> feather fittings like theirs when do you bolt them on? Before covering
with
> the bolt underneath or after covering with them laying loose until you
punch
> a hole to put the bolt through?
>
> Thanks, Ted
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirk & Laura Huizenga" <kirkh@unique-software.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 8:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Section Fittings
>
>
> <kirkh@unique-software.com>
> >
> > >:
> > >
> > >-For the wire brace fittings, did you bolt the fittings directly to the
> main
> > >and center beams so that the fitting, except for the connection tab,
will
> be
> > >under the fabric covering? Or did you put a spacer under the fitting
to
> > >build it up flush, and bolt the fitting on top of the fabric so it is
> > >exposed?
> >
> > I've seen both ways. I think for the fittings it is easier and
> > cleaner (not aerodynamically) to make it flush and have them on the
> > outside of the fabric.
> >
> >
> > >-Same question for the elevator and rudder control horns. The plans
for
> the
> > >horns show a 1 inch opening, but do not show a spacer to build the main
> beam
> > >up to that thickness.
> >
> > Again, I've seen both. My horns were tight around the main beam, but
> > I am going to rebuild them to be flush. 1/16" or 1/8" plywood is the
> > plan for spacers
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >It seems that putting all of these fittings flush on top of the fabric
> will
> > >have a lot of bolts and nuts showing and produce more drag. Does it
> matter
> > >aerodynamically or aesthetically?
> >
> > I'd say that those bolts are the least of drag concerns for a Piet
> > :-) Aesthetically --- that's up to you. I kind of like the look of
> > off color, external fittings on some piets and the smooth covered
> > fittings on others.
> >
> > Check out the pictures below of Dale Johnson and Greg Cardinal's
> > fittings. They are creating an award winning aircraft IMHO.
> >
> > http://homepage.mac.com/khuizenga (you can ignore the navigation
> > and tailwheel file)
> >
> > Kirk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Trying to keep thimgs simple. Bouight a Revere Ware whistling teapot (Revere
g 02-c) at a garage sale, popped off the pivoting - whistling spout cover.
Bought a piece of the chromed (metal tube) undersink pipe (about 19" long
with a 90 degree bend at one end, 1 3/8" I.D.). The bent end is a tight /
twisting fit over the teapot's spout. Aimed the pipe back over the handle.
Put a quart of water in the pot, turn on the hot plate, slip two capstrips
into the pipe end, pack a small rag around the strips at the end of the tube
and go away for 30 or 40 minutes. Strips come out nicely limber (I'm using
fir). Slip in the jig slick as you please, glue in the fiddly parts, staple
on the gussets and let it set up. If you slip two more strips into the
"steamer" right after you put the first two into the jig you can do a
production run. I usually put one in to the jig (and let it set up
overnight) then clean, sand & varnish the previous nights rib.
One caution - the steamer has an aft CG and when the water gets low it can
rock off of the hotplate, I fixed this with a small screw clamp that
captures the flange on the pot just under the spout.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
GREA738(at)aol.com wrote:
>Strips come out nicely limber (I'm using fir). Slip in the jig slick
>as you please, glue in the fiddly parts, staple on the gussets and
>let it set up. If you slip two more strips into the "steamer" right
>after you put the first two into the jig you can do a production run.
Don't the strips come out of the steaming process damp? Do you dry them at
all before gluing them up?
Like Corky, the subject line of this thread got my attention. But being
from Texas, "steaming ribs" means a whole 'nother thing to me ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, Oregon
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Fittings |
Ted,
The control horns will be mounted prior to covering. All other tail fittings will
be installed after covering.
Greg Cardinal
>>> "Ted Brousseau" 12/25 9:54 PM >>>
Greg,
My email server seemed to crash right after sending the message to the Piet
list. I just got on the archives and saw your response.
I didn't do a good job of stating my question. Here is my real question. I
like the way you have designed the horns. You have welded a channel to the
horn. The horns have to be under the fabric. So, my question deals with
how to attach the horns. Do you bolt them on before covering? Or, do you
lay them loose, cover and then bolt them down? I hope this question makes
sense. It would be easier if we were both looking at the picture together.
Thanks, Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Section Fittings
> Kirk,
>
> I went and looked at Dale and Greg's fittings. They really look nice and
I
> am building mine the same.
>
> I wonder if might know the answer to this question. If you build tail
> feather fittings like theirs when do you bolt them on? Before covering
with
> the bolt underneath or after covering with them laying loose until you
punch
> a hole to put the bolt through?
>
> Thanks, Ted
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirk & Laura Huizenga" <kirkh@unique-software.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 8:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Section Fittings
>
>
> <kirkh@unique-software.com>
> >
> > >:
> > >
> > >-For the wire brace fittings, did you bolt the fittings directly to the
> main
> > >and center beams so that the fitting, except for the connection tab,
will
> be
> > >under the fabric covering? Or did you put a spacer under the fitting
to
> > >build it up flush, and bolt the fitting on top of the fabric so it is
> > >exposed?
> >
> > I've seen both ways. I think for the fittings it is easier and
> > cleaner (not aerodynamically) to make it flush and have them on the
> > outside of the fabric.
> >
> >
> > >-Same question for the elevator and rudder control horns. The plans
for
> the
> > >horns show a 1 inch opening, but do not show a spacer to build the main
> beam
> > >up to that thickness.
> >
> > Again, I've seen both. My horns were tight around the main beam, but
> > I am going to rebuild them to be flush. 1/16" or 1/8" plywood is the
> > plan for spacers
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >It seems that putting all of these fittings flush on top of the fabric
> will
> > >have a lot of bolts and nuts showing and produce more drag. Does it
> matter
> > >aerodynamically or aesthetically?
> >
> > I'd say that those bolts are the least of drag concerns for a Piet
> > :-) Aesthetically --- that's up to you. I kind of like the look of
> > off color, external fittings on some piets and the smooth covered
> > fittings on others.
> >
> > Check out the pictures below of Dale Johnson and Greg Cardinal's
> > fittings. They are creating an award winning aircraft IMHO.
> >
> > http://homepage.mac.com/khuizenga (you can ignore the navigation
> > and tailwheel file)
> >
> > Kirk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: steaming ribs |
Oscar,
If you're using T-88 it's not a problem. If you read the specs on T-88 , it
says that it works just as well on wet wood as dry.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: steaming ribs
>
> GREA738(at)aol.com wrote:
> >Strips come out nicely limber (I'm using fir). Slip in the jig slick
> >as you please, glue in the fiddly parts, staple on the gussets and
> >let it set up. If you slip two more strips into the "steamer" right
> >after you put the first two into the jig you can do a production run.
>
> Don't the strips come out of the steaming process damp? Do you dry them
at
> all before gluing them up?
>
> Like Corky, the subject line of this thread got my attention. But being
> from Texas, "steaming ribs" means a whole 'nother thing to me ;o)
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, Oregon
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Gents,
Built the steel tube part of the engine mount for the Scout today. Covering
is next. What a thrill to be working on the scout again.
Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeffery Lorimor <jlorimor(at)willinet.net> |
Folks-
I have half my ribs built & just varnished one for my son for Christmas.
What a job! My question is...can I varnish them prior to assembling them
on the spars, or do they need to be left naked soas to glue them to the
spars, then varnished in assembly? If they can be varnished first I can
dip them and save a bundle of work.
Thanks
Jeff Lorimor
Jeff & Peg Lorimor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: varnishing ribs |
I'm sure you will get a couple of views on this. I waited till they were on
the spar and all work was done. Having said that, next time I'll just dip
them. I took many hours of sitting on a stool getting into all of those
cracks to get coverage. I'm about ready to start building ribs for #2.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffery Lorimor" <jlorimor(at)willinet.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: varnishing ribs
>
> Folks-
> I have half my ribs built & just varnished one for my son for Christmas.
> What a job! My question is...can I varnish them prior to assembling them
> on the spars, or do they need to be left naked soas to glue them to the
> spars, then varnished in assembly? If they can be varnished first I can
> dip them and save a bundle of work.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeff Lorimor
> Jeff & Peg Lorimor
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
Folks-
I have half my ribs built & just varnished one for my son for Christmas.
What a job! My question is...can I varnish them prior to assembling them
on the spars, or do they need to be left naked soas to glue them to the
spars, then varnished in assembly? If they can be varnished first I can
dip them and save a bundle of work.
Thanks
Jeff Lorimor
Jeff,
The ribs should not be glued onto the spars, just nailed (and contrary to
what the plans say, the nails should should go through the uprights into the
face of the spar, not through the capstrips, according to AC43.13). If you
glue the ribs to the spar, you may have trouble trammeling the wing to get
it straight.
I'm not sure I would dip them though, I think that would tend to put an
awfully heavy coat of varnish on them. I brushed mine, with the first coat
thinned about 50% so it would penetrate the wood better, then brushed a
second coat on at full strength. If you plan to cover with PolyFiber, be
sure your varnish is compatible with their chemicals, or plan on putting a
coat of their epoxy varnish (about $50 a qt.) on the capstrips so your
varnish doesn't bleed into the fabric finish.
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Jeff----I would leave varishing the wing----the whole wing, ribs
included until AFTER every last piece of wood is sanded, glued,
and finished completely. You never know where/when you are
going to need to sand, glue in a reinforcement, etc. Also like
Jack P. said you don't want to glue the ribs to the spars right
up front. I DID glue my ribs to the spars but AFTER all the
The reason for this is that you'll need to slide your ribs left or
right a bit to clear those cables in the wing bays. Not every
rib has to be moved, but a few. You'll never notice that a Piets
ribs are not equally spaced in every bay unless you look really
close. Keep your ribs and wing pieces in a good place and
my advice is to skip all varnishing until the bitter end. I used
a plastic bug spray bottle (like with the smoke system) and
Minwax Fast-drying polyurethane in gallon cans. I put the wing
panels on two saw horses and sprayed them, flipped them, let
them dry---repeat. There were drips, runs, etc. but I was able to
point that nozzle in each little gusset/capstrip intersection good.
It made the gravel shiney too in the driveway:) It's a bit wasteful,
but after about 4 coats and some sanding I was very comfortable
with the fact that things were well protected. ONE place you DO
want to varish first is where your metal fittings go. That is really
important. Also try to dip your hardware upon it's final installation
in varnish to coat the inside of the bolt holes. It's messy but Tony
Bingelis suggests this so I did it. No one will see your drips or
runs inside the wing-----the cockpit is a different story course.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
GREA738(at)aol.com wrote:
>Strips come out nicely limber (I'm using fir). Slip in the jig slick
>as you please, glue in the fiddly parts, staple on the gussets and
>let it set up. If you slip two more strips into the "steamer" right
>after you put the first two into the jig you can do a production run.
Don't the strips come out of the steaming process damp? Do you dry them at
all before gluing them up?
Oscar,
The strips do come out of the steamer damp - and HOT - but by the time the
top & bottom strips are in the jig (and I'm ready to glue) most moisture has
evaporated off - and - I'm using white carpenter's glue (Alphatic Resin) so
any residual moisture helps wick the resin into the wood somewhat. (No, I've
never had a glue joint failure).
After clean-up and a light sanding where needed I brush on a thinned marine
spar varnish (Not polyurethane).
Time flies when you're having fun!
Eventually the Scout will fly too!
Den
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: varnishing ribs |
No... Sorry, all tha areas to glue and also the areas
to attach the covering has to be with no barnish.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Jeffery Lorimor wrote:
> Lorimor
>
> Folks-
> I have half my ribs built & just varnished one for
> my son for Christmas.
> What a job! My question is...can I varnish them
> prior to assembling them
> on the spars, or do they need to be left naked soas
> to glue them to the
> spars, then varnished in assembly? If they can be
> varnished first I can
> dip them and save a bundle of work.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeff Lorimor
> Jeff & Peg Lorimor
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
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>
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: varnishing ribs |
Before applying varnish ( after final assembly ) does anyone recommend that a
fungicide or other perservative be applied?
Henry Williams, half way thru ribs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | wood preservative |
Hello Brodent: good question. I've wondered about that myself. The local
wood guru says no. He says you could end up with problems getting the
varnish to stick to it. How ever the EAA wood book recommends something
called pentachloropenol. The book says it will take paint or varnish
well. Just make sure it's not in an oil base formula. I've not seen any
preservatives offered by ACS or Wicks. Does any one know of this
pentachloropenol and have a brand name? I hate to ask these kind of
questions at Home Depot. You always get referred to a 16 year old "ass
ociate" with some sort of Mohawk looking haircut and carrying more
hardware in his face than in the hardware isle, who will just stare at
you as if you are from outer space. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wood preservative |
Leon,
I would read the labels. I do remember redoing my quality wooden chimney on
my cardboard house in Texas and I did brush on some soapy like liquid that I
bought at home depot. It was a Behr product for preserving wood and keeping
the fungus out. It was compatible with other products in their line.
I ,ight have the old can in the basement. I will go look but don't hold
your breath.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks(at)webtv.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood preservative
>
> Hello Brodent: good question. I've wondered about that myself. The local
> wood guru says no. He says you could end up with problems getting the
> varnish to stick to it. How ever the EAA wood book recommends something
> called pentachloropenol. The book says it will take paint or varnish
> well. Just make sure it's not in an oil base formula. I've not seen any
> preservatives offered by ACS or Wicks. Does any one know of this
> pentachloropenol and have a brand name? I hate to ask these kind of
> questions at Home Depot. You always get referred to a 16 year old "ass
> ociate" with some sort of Mohawk looking haircut and carrying more
> hardware in his face than in the hardware isle, who will just stare at
> you as if you are from outer space. Leon S.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wood preservative |
Hello Brodent: good question. I've wondered about that myself. The
local
wood guru says no. He says you could end up with problems getting the
varnish to stick to it. How ever the EAA wood book recommends
something
called pentachloropenol. The book says it will take paint or varnish
well. Just make sure it's not in an oil base formula. I've not seen
any
preservatives offered by ACS or Wicks. Does any one know of this
pentachloropenol and have a brand name? . Leon S.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Leon, listen to your local guru. I tried it, what a mess, when I
applied the varnish.
Don't know why you are worried about fungus. But if you are,a light
coat of epoxy should do the trick.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wood preservative |
I would tend to listen to Mike B. I do not think it is an issue as you
really won't be parking outside anyway. Just ventilate well.
Chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood preservative
>
> Leon,
>
> I would read the labels. I do remember redoing my quality wooden chimney
on
> my cardboard house in Texas and I did brush on some soapy like liquid that
I
> bought at home depot. It was a Behr product for preserving wood and
keeping
> the fungus out. It was compatible with other products in their line.
>
> I ,ight have the old can in the basement. I will go look but don't hold
> your breath.
>
> Chris Bobka
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks(at)webtv.net>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood preservative
>
>
> >
> > Hello Brodent: good question. I've wondered about that myself. The local
> > wood guru says no. He says you could end up with problems getting the
> > varnish to stick to it. How ever the EAA wood book recommends something
> > called pentachloropenol. The book says it will take paint or varnish
> > well. Just make sure it's not in an oil base formula. I've not seen any
> > preservatives offered by ACS or Wicks. Does any one know of this
> > pentachloropenol and have a brand name? I hate to ask these kind of
> > questions at Home Depot. You always get referred to a 16 year old "ass
> > ociate" with some sort of Mohawk looking haircut and carrying more
> > hardware in his face than in the hardware isle, who will just stare at
> > you as if you are from outer space. Leon S.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Rib Varnishing and Covering |
Pieters,
Having read the list for the last few days I'm wondering if some of you are
glueing your fabric to the ribs in addition to stiching. My advisor has
talked about it concerning the Piet and it's unique airfoil. We plan only to
glue on leading edge, wing tip bow and trailing edge (alum) plus the roots
and aeliron wells. I mentioned the cautions I'd read on this list about
incompatibilities of 1 and 2 part varnishes and adhesitives. He sort of
brushed it off by saying it will make the fabic stick better. I accept his
judgement.
Also, concerning the leading edge underside. He felt that due to the under
curve aft of the front spar, and that there was no solid curve under as was
on top of the nose that a piece of 1/4 cap strip between the ribs on the
front spar might help the airfoil keep from over scalloping on the under
side. Would like any comments on these subjects. I've not had my naked
inspection yet as I continue to change things daily. I might change the name
of that inspection to " my short-arm inspection" I wonder if any out there in
the Piet world could identify with that.
Corky, down at the Infirmary trying to convince the medics that the only
place I've been with my pants down was the latrine. ( Head, for you other
warriors)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Always thought a spin was a problem, not a lifesaver |
You live and learn. Was talking to my 80ish flying Mentor the other day
,
about spins, and he said something like " they taught you how to spin,
to
save your life".
When I asked him to explain, he told me that in WW1 ( a little before
his
time) , with the slow flying Biplanes, if your plane got hit in the
control
surfaces, making it unflyable,,, You would put it into a spin, and as
it
"maple-leafed" to the ground, this would slow the desent to where there
was
a good chance that you would survive.
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Always thought a spin was a problem, not a lifesaver |
I was up teaching spins the other day with a student and all I saw was a
windshield full of earth. That is not the way I would want to hit.
The utility of a spin is that you will always go down. So if you are in
your piet and stuck on top of the clouds and you know the cloud bases are
1000 feet or so above the ground. You could spin through the clouds and
recover from the spin at first sight of the ground.
There is a caveat. Some aircraft take on unique spin characteristics after
being in the spin a few turns. This is a "steady state" spin. Whereas spin
recovery is possible using routine control inputs before getting to steady
state, these same techniques may not work upon reaching steady state.
Weight distribution, inertia, control size, deflection limits, aerodynamic
blanking of the surface, and a host of other factors determine this.
Ask Gary Meadows about this. He is all boned up for his CFI checkride.
Chris Bobka
hFrom: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Always thought a spin was a problem, not a
lifesaver
>
> You live and learn. Was talking to my 80ish flying Mentor the other day
> ,
> about spins, and he said something like " they taught you how to spin,
> to
> save your life".
> When I asked him to explain, he told me that in WW1 ( a little before
> his
> time) , with the slow flying Biplanes, if your plane got hit in the
> control
> surfaces, making it unflyable,,, You would put it into a spin, and as
> it
> "maple-leafed" to the ground, this would slow the desent to where there
> was
> a good chance that you would survive.
> walt
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Maple leaf aka falling leaf is not a spin |
Also, the maple leaf is what I believe you mean as a falling leaf. This is
accomplished bystalling the wing and using rudder to keep from falling off
on a wing. Some aircraft won't do this but some can. It determines how
well your ship is rigged. But you need to be able to hold full aft stick
and your rudder must work. So really only your ailerons can be shot off and
even then they must be equally shot off.
Chris bobka
CFI
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Always thought a spin was a problem, not a
lifesaver
>
> You live and learn. Was talking to my 80ish flying Mentor the other day
> ,
> about spins, and he said something like " they taught you how to spin,
> to
> save your life".
> When I asked him to explain, he told me that in WW1 ( a little before
> his
> time) , with the slow flying Biplanes, if your plane got hit in the
> control
> surfaces, making it unflyable,,, You would put it into a spin, and as
> it
> "maple-leafed" to the ground, this would slow the desent to where there
> was
> a good chance that you would survive.
> walt
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib Varnishing and Covering |
In a message dated 12/29/01 11:21:51 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
> Pieters,
> Having read the list for the last few days I'm wondering if some of you are
> glueing your fabric to the ribs in addition to stiching. My advisor has
> talked about it concerning the Piet and it's unique airfoil. We plan only
> to
> glue on leading edge, wing tip bow and trailing edge (alum) plus the roots
> and aeliron wells. I mentioned the cautions I'd read on this list about
> incompatibilities of 1 and 2 part varnishes and adhesitives. He sort of
> brushed it off by saying it will make the fabic stick better. I accept his
> judgement.
> Also, concerning the leading edge underside. He felt that due to the under
> curve aft of the front spar, and that there was no solid curve under as was
> on top of the nose that a piece of 1/4 cap strip between the ribs on the
> front spar might help the airfoil keep from over scalloping on the under
> side. Would like any comments on these subjects. I've not had my naked
> inspection yet as I continue to change things daily. I might change the
> name
> of that inspection to " my short-arm inspection" I wonder if any out there
> in
> the Piet world could identify with that.
> Corky, down at the Infirmary trying to convince the medics that the only
> place I've been with my pants down was the latrine. ( Head, for you other
> warriors)
>
>
>
Corky,
No need to glue fabric to ribs as far as I have ever heard. Shrink it and
stitch it. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Fittings |
Greg,
OK, I now understand. Now, I have one more question. How do you fasten
them down? It would seem like if you use bolts the heads and nuts would
bulge up under the fabric. Or do you use something like a rivet? Do the
fasteners for the elevator horns go up and down (vertical) or forward and
backward (horizontal)?
I really appreciate your patience. I am kind of thick headed sometimes.
Happy New Year.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Section Fittings
>
> Ted,
> The control horns will be mounted prior to covering. All other tail
fittings will be installed after covering.
>
> Greg Cardinal
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | the problem with spinning lifesavers |
Walt wrote:
>Was talking to my 80ish flying Mentor the other day about spins
The old guy may have a point. I have heard of, and even seen (on TV)
airplanes spinning to the ground and the pilot surviving after the crumpled
heap piled up, just because of the high-drag way that the plane spun in.
Not a spiral dive, but a spin. Recently, William Wynne endured just such an
event in his Piet.
My CFI is/was a crusty ex-duster pilot from Pine Bluff, Arkansas by the name
of Charlie Avaritt... and he had no hesitation in teaching me spins (or in
demonstrating them). We did them in a beautiful dark blue Great Lakes
biplane, and I considered it to be fun and exciting. When you do them in
something that does them well and readily, you end up wanting to "perfect"
the technique, not only to extend your personal TBO (time between "Oh my
goshes") but to know what one feels like and how to control them. Up till
then in my training, I had been taught and reminded several times not to
lift a dropping wing with aileron when in slow flight and approach to a
stall, but we had never gone to the next step, which was the "why not?" of
going ahead and trying to pick the wing up that way. When we did, I began
to understand and to use the rudders properly when overusing the ailerons
starts to aggravate things and leads to a spin out of a stall. However... I
still find myself doing the wrong thing (mostly when flying in spam cans),
trying to lift a dropping wing while in slow flight, usually in a turn to
short final at low altitude. It's a recipe for disaster.
I would like to know how a plane that I build, spins. Get a nice day,
plenty of altitude, comfortable CG loading, parachute, and just do it.
Don't let it get wound up, but a couple of turns at least. Find out what
the descent rate is when spinning, how much altitude is needed for recovery,
what the controls do while in the spin, what it sounds like and feels like.
I know what it looks like: just drop some green peas and refried beans in a
blender with a little water in it, add some toothpicks, and put the switch
on 'low' while you look down into it. If you start seeing something that
looks like blue Jello mixed with cotton, you better hope you're spinning
your airplane over the ocean and not seeing sky instead ;o)
I don't think most pilots would even realize they're in a spin until they've
cranked a turn or two, so why practice spin recovery out of 1/2 or 3/4-turn
spins when you'll likely never be sharp enough to recover that quickly?
Maybe the 16-year-old with a Mohawk haircut and lightning-fast reflexes can
do it, but not me. I must say I never thought about a spin as a useful
maneuver, but if you're comfortable with them, why not use them when needed?
Not sure I'd be too comfy spinning down through a solid cloud deck to get
to VFR below, but it would depend on the available options. Also not sure
if I would try one just to get to pattern altitude from cruise in a hurry,
but it would be an attention-getting way to do it, for sure. With a 'chute
on, of course... isn't that required by the FARs?
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | alternative spars |
At the risk of whipping the spar horse to death, here is some load test
information for anybody interested in continuing study of alternative spars.
The airplane I'm building, the Barnard M-19 "Flying Squirrel", is of
composite construction. The wing spars are straight, non-tapered, and are
of solid wood in the prototype, thus my interest in alternative spars being
used or developed for the Pietenpol. Each wing is 11 ft. long, and the
chord is about 4'-8". Main spar is 3/4" thick, 7" deep; aft spar is 1/2"
thick, 4" deep (airfoil is a modified Clark Y shape). In the prototype,
each face of each spar also gets a single layer of bidirectional glass cloth
laid at a 45. Wing ribs are 3/4" thick foam, as are the wing skins.
Anyway, my interest has been in building a composite wing spar to avoid
using expensive solid wood spars. Marvin Barnard, the designer and builder
of the prototype, has been running some tests on alternative spars. The
results of load tests are available on my site, at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/wing/spartest.html and some general information
on the wing is at http://www.flysquirrel.net/wing/wing.html and photos of
the prototype wing construction at http://www.flysquirrel.net/prototype.html
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, Oregon
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | the problem with spinning lifesavers |
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
I must say I never thought about a spin as a useful
maneuver, but if you're comfortable with them, why not use them when needed?
Actually, in a plane that spins well and doesn't "wind up" after a couple of
turns, a spin is a good way to lose a lot of altitude quickly. I once took
my old J-3 Cub to 14,000 ft. It took well over an hour to get it that high,
and I was freezing - it was July and I was just wearing shorts and a
T-shirt. Once I determined the old plane would go no higher, I put it in a
spin and spun it down to 6,000 ft where it was warmer. It only took a few
minutes, where if I closed the throttle and dove at the redline it would
have taken nearly three times longer and would have made me even colder.
I certainly intend to spin my Pietenpol, at least during the flight test
program. I will start the tests (with a parachute on) with the CG as far
forward as possible, and then test it with progressively further aft CG's.
At the first sign of difficulty recovering, I will stop the tests and note
the CG limit.
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Fittings |
Ted,
Your question is not the least bit "thick headed" and I was going to clarify this
anyway. The horn is mounted and the brace is bolted in prior to covering. The
bolts attaching the horn to the main beam are installed after the covering
goes on.
Greg Cardinal
>>> "Ted Brousseau" 12/29 10:20 PM >>>
Greg,
OK, I now understand. Now, I have one more question. How do you fasten
them down? It would seem like if you use bolts the heads and nuts would
bulge up under the fabric. Or do you use something like a rivet? Do the
fasteners for the elevator horns go up and down (vertical) or forward and
backward (horizontal)?
I really appreciate your patience. I am kind of thick headed sometimes.
Happy New Year.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Section Fittings
>
> Ted,
> The control horns will be mounted prior to covering. All other tail
fittings will be installed after covering.
>
> Greg Cardinal
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternative spars |
Oscar,
There is no risk of beating the spar horse to death. It has been discussed for
years and for good reason.
Rumors are floating around of a small group in the Minneapolis area testing a built-up
Pietenpol spar to destruction.......
Greg Cardinal
>>> "Oscar Zuniga" 12/30 8:15 PM >>>
At the risk of whipping the spar horse to death, here is some load test
information for anybody interested in continuing study of alternative spars.
The airplane I'm building, the Barnard M-19 "Flying Squirrel", is of
composite construction. The wing spars are straight, non-tapered, and are
of solid wood in the prototype, thus my interest in alternative spars being
used or developed for the Pietenpol. Each wing is 11 ft. long, and the
chord is about 4'-8". Main spar is 3/4" thick, 7" deep; aft spar is 1/2"
thick, 4" deep (airfoil is a modified Clark Y shape). In the prototype,
each face of each spar also gets a single layer of bidirectional glass cloth
laid at a 45. Wing ribs are 3/4" thick foam, as are the wing skins.
Anyway, my interest has been in building a composite wing spar to avoid
using expensive solid wood spars. Marvin Barnard, the designer and builder
of the prototype, has been running some tests on alternative spars. The
results of load tests are available on my site, at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/wing/spartest.html and some general information
on the wing is at http://www.flysquirrel.net/wing/wing.html and photos of
the prototype wing construction at http://www.flysquirrel.net/prototype.html
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, Oregon
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Fittings |
Greg,
Thanks. It now makes sense. I will be drilling this afternoon.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Section Fittings
>
> Ted,
> Your question is not the least bit "thick headed" and I was going to
clarify this anyway. The horn is mounted and the brace is bolted in prior to
covering. The bolts attaching the horn to the main beam are installed after
the covering goes on.
>
> Greg Cardinal
>
> >>> "Ted Brousseau" 12/29 10:20 PM >>>
>
> Greg,
>
> OK, I now understand. Now, I have one more question. How do you fasten
> them down? It would seem like if you use bolts the heads and nuts would
> bulge up under the fabric. Or do you use something like a rivet? Do the
> fasteners for the elevator horns go up and down (vertical) or forward and
> backward (horizontal)?
>
> I really appreciate your patience. I am kind of thick headed sometimes.
>
> Happy New Year.
>
> Ted
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Section Fittings
>
>
>
> >
> > Ted,
> > The control horns will be mounted prior to covering. All other tail
> fittings will be installed after covering.
> >
> > Greg Cardinal
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: the problem with spinning lifesavers |
At one time I read a tale that the author went to great lengths to assure was
true regardless of how improbable it sounded. I'd have to say it sounds
suspect, but it's interesting anyway. This is from my fuzzy memory of the
article, by the way, not a verbatim account.
A WWI British pilot's biplane was shot up in a dogfight, at high altitude.
During evasive maneuvers his engine quit and the ship entered a spin. The pilot
was unsuccessful in recovering from the spin and it went flat. With no hope of
recovery, and no parachute, the pilot climbed into the upper wing (attempt to
push cg forward?). The ship spun for several thousand feet to the amazement of
the enemy who observed the pilot ride it down atop the wing. The pilot at that
point related that he intended to jump away just before the crash. On impact
the pilot attempted to jump, but instead tore through both the upper wing and
fuselage, to walk away unharmed.
Larry
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
> Walt wrote:
> >Was talking to my 80ish flying Mentor the other day about spins
>
> The old guy may have a point. I have heard of, and even seen (on TV)
> airplanes spinning to the ground and the pilot surviving after the crumpled
> heap piled up, just because of the high-drag way that the plane spun in.
> Not a spiral dive, but a spin. Recently, William Wynne endured just such an
> event in his Piet.
>
> My CFI is/was a crusty ex-duster pilot from Pine Bluff, Arkansas by the name
> of Charlie Avaritt... and he had no hesitation in teaching me spins (or in
> demonstrating them). We did them in a beautiful dark blue Great Lakes
> biplane, and I considered it to be fun and exciting. When you do them in
> something that does them well and readily, you end up wanting to "perfect"
> the technique, not only to extend your personal TBO (time between "Oh my
> goshes") but to know what one feels like and how to control them. Up till
> then in my training, I had been taught and reminded several times not to
> lift a dropping wing with aileron when in slow flight and approach to a
> stall, but we had never gone to the next step, which was the "why not?" of
> going ahead and trying to pick the wing up that way. When we did, I began
> to understand and to use the rudders properly when overusing the ailerons
> starts to aggravate things and leads to a spin out of a stall. However... I
> still find myself doing the wrong thing (mostly when flying in spam cans),
> trying to lift a dropping wing while in slow flight, usually in a turn to
> short final at low altitude. It's a recipe for disaster.
>
> I would like to know how a plane that I build, spins. Get a nice day,
> plenty of altitude, comfortable CG loading, parachute, and just do it.
> Don't let it get wound up, but a couple of turns at least. Find out what
> the descent rate is when spinning, how much altitude is needed for recovery,
> what the controls do while in the spin, what it sounds like and feels like.
> I know what it looks like: just drop some green peas and refried beans in a
> blender with a little water in it, add some toothpicks, and put the switch
> on 'low' while you look down into it. If you start seeing something that
> looks like blue Jello mixed with cotton, you better hope you're spinning
> your airplane over the ocean and not seeing sky instead ;o)
>
> I don't think most pilots would even realize they're in a spin until they've
> cranked a turn or two, so why practice spin recovery out of 1/2 or 3/4-turn
> spins when you'll likely never be sharp enough to recover that quickly?
> Maybe the 16-year-old with a Mohawk haircut and lightning-fast reflexes can
> do it, but not me. I must say I never thought about a spin as a useful
> maneuver, but if you're comfortable with them, why not use them when needed?
> Not sure I'd be too comfy spinning down through a solid cloud deck to get
> to VFR below, but it would depend on the available options. Also not sure
> if I would try one just to get to pattern altitude from cruise in a hurry,
> but it would be an attention-getting way to do it, for sure. With a 'chute
> on, of course... isn't that required by the FARs?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, Oregon
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Weight, Wm. Wynne & Spins |
>
>Thanks for the kind words Javier, I was wondering what
>you have done to lighten the corvair engine if
>anything, or anybody else who is working on a corvair.
>I am trying to put my vair on a diet and get it down
>to 190 to 200 lbs. I am experimenting with cutting off
>the heavy intake manifolds and installing a light
>weight aluminum tubing system. I know that the engine
>is light enough for the piet, but I am working on
>another project that it needs to be lighter. I am
>close on my piet and it will have the vair also.
>Del
Del (and List),
The comments you got re checking Wm. Wynne's manual for weight-saving ideas
were very good & pretty much covered Wm's. thoughts on the matter. You
might also check out Wm's. West-coast collaborater, Pat Panzera, who has
what looks & sounds to be a top-notch conversion job. Pat is the moderator
of the Corvair engine list (I think the address is
www.anglefire.com/corvaircraft) & I believe he has done modifications to
either (or both the) intake & exhaust manifolds to reduce wt. I don't think
you'll get a corvair much below 200lbs, however.
On another matter, I stopped by William's shop at Spruce Creek while in FL
visiting my family over Xmas. William was not there, but I had a long talk
with his hangar buddy, Steve. Steve helped Wm. do the post-motem on his
Piet after the crash & he said 2 things of interest to the group re: the
crash.
First, as has been talked around over the past few days, Wm. believes that
if his friend who was flying had used rudder instead of instinctively going
for the ailerons, they would have not spun out. Sounds in line with some of
the comments over the past few days.
Secondly, Steve discovered that the gascolator petcock was bent when they
took it off the firewall. Also, the aluminum top had melted in the fire &
flowed out through the petcock, indicating that it was open. Steve thinks
that Wm. may have had the gascolator too low on the firewall & when they
dug in the ground forced it open, causing gas to flow out onto the exhaust
pipe underneath. Something to consider given that almost everyone uses
gravity feed on their Piet.
Finally, I wish everyone a very Happy New Year. We were, as I said,
visiting my family in FL for Xmas. We has a wonderful time until my wife
had to be taken to the hospital for emergency surgery Xmas night. She is
fine & we are home now. My thanks to everyone on the list for being so
willing to share advice, help and ideas over the past year. The sense of
community on this list has also been a great help to me, as I left so many
friends and neighbors behind when we moved from Va.
Best wishes for a great 2002. Get 'em flying!
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
Bumper Sticker of the week:
'Forget world peace... try visualizing using you turn signal!'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Weight, Wm. Wynne & Spins |
Kip,
You being the ONLY living soul who retired in the south and moved north, it
is gratifying to see your address to be on the south side in Canton. We are
very happy to hear of your wife's recovery.
I got snookered into attending a wedding in Florida in Feb. Hope I don't have
any similiar problems.
Corky in 32 degree La with light snow flurries
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Fittings |
Ted,
Please contact me direct: Corky ,,,,, Isablcorky(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | spins/parachutes and flying Squirrels????? |
1. How do you get into a Piet with a parachute on?
2. What method do you use to move the CG forward in a Piet while wearing
a parachute?
3. How far forward do you go with the CG before beginning your spin series? (ie
what is the forward CG limit for the Piet?)
4. Have you spoken with others who have spun their Piets to see what they have
to say?
5. Are you close to beginning your flight testing?
Just curious-
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Spins in a Pietenpol.... |
Hello Group,
I guess I'm "chicken" because I've never spun my Pietenpol, probably
because:
1. I don't have a parachute;
2. There is no room in my Piet for a parachute;
3. A parachute would add extra mass aft of the a/c's CG which
is most undesirable, and
4. I didn't wish to explore its behavior in a fully-developed spin
without the option of being able to bail out should things get
nasty.
Instead, I opted to practice spins and recovery in airplanes with
proven spin characteristics (Taylorcraft and Luscombe). Then right-
ly or wrongly, I reasoned that if I did get into a spin with my Piet, I
would at least be in practice for recovery. I did check the stalling be-
havior of my Piet and did what we call "incipient spins" which are
restricted to the entry phase. Its behavior was pretty typical of other
lightplanes, so I left it at that.
Years ago, a friend (today an airline pilot) built a Pietenpol and as-
ked me whether I had spun mine. I said I hadn't done anything further
than stalls and incipient spins and wasn't interested in doing any
more than that for the reasons listed above. He did spin his (solo)
and said it spun like the proverbial "button on an outhouse door".
As I recall, he said the recovery was not instantaneous, but not a
problem either.
He moved away for a few years and we were out of touch. Then one
fine evening I went flying my Pietenpol and, upon returning to our air-
strip, I noticed a car parked near the runway. It was my friend who had
just been transferred back to our city. He said, "Do you remember
when I asked you whether you had spun your Pietenpol, and what you
told me?" I said I did remember his question and my answer, and he
went on to tell his story which went something like this:
His Piet has a fuselage nose tank which was full when he took off with
a passenger on a "joyride". After about an hour, he decided to climb
to a safe altitude and do a spin. They climbed to 5000 ft. agl and he
entered a spin (I don't remember which way) directly over a lake. After
several turns, with the spin fully developed, he initiated spin recovery
actions. The spin flattened with the nose alternately bobbing up and
down and standard recovery procedure had no effect. He tried using
bursts of power, but this only seemed to increase the spin rate. The spin
continued with him trying everything he could think of to recover. Finally,
he managed to stop the spin and recover with about 1000 feet of alti-
tude remaining! His passenger was oblivious to the danger and he did
not enlighten him as to the seriousness of the situation. He said to me,
"Now I know why you aren't interested in doing fully-developed spins in
homebuilts---unless someone has already done them with that particular
airplane."
This fellow at the time was by no means inexperienced; he was employed
as a flying instructor. Possibly this is what saved him, although to this
day
he doesn't know how he was able to recover from that spin.
He thinks the spin flattened due to an aft CG condition worsened by the
fuel burn after over an hour's flying. And the passenger's weight could have
brought the CG back a bit, too. Luckily, my friend is a small man who does
not weigh very much. I shudder to think of what might have happened if he
had been a 200 pounder.
His Piet has been out of service for quite a few years awaiting new fabric.
I'll have to phone him one of these days to persuade him to get it going
again.
So, my friends, watch that CG location and approach this sort of thing very
cautiously. And remember everything your instructor(s) told you about inad-
vertent spins and avoiding them, regardless of what you are flying.
Cheers,
Graham Hansen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi friends
Kip
I think that it's very hard to have less than 200
pounds on the Corvair engine, but if you check the
weight of the O-200, or other similar certificate
aircraft engine the weight is around of 200 lbs, about
my engine i will use a sentra starter, i have removed
the blower fan,and with this all accesories for it, i
will use a little alternator (sugessted by Williams
Wynne) i have removed too the heavy's tubes of the
heads and i will make a lighter exaust manifold. The
corvaircraft list it's very usefull for this.
I will advice to you and the list about the success on
the engine..
Thanks for your words, i will expect that you can
understand me.
happy 2002
Javier Cruz
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins in a Pietenpol.... |
Graham,
This is one of the best posts about the Piet I have
read (not related to construction of course).
Thank you very much and I hope it could be read by all
the future Piet builders...
Happy New Year to All of You.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Graham Hansen <grhans@cable-lynx.net> wrote:
> Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
>
> Hello Group,
>
> I guess I'm "chicken" because I've never spun my
> Pietenpol, probably
> because:
>
> 1. I don't have a parachute;
> 2. There is no room in my Piet for a parachute;
> 3. A parachute would add extra mass aft of the a/c's
> CG which
> is most undesirable, and
> 4. I didn't wish to explore its behavior in a
> fully-developed spin
> without the option of being able to bail out
> should things get
> nasty.
>
> Instead, I opted to practice spins and recovery in
> airplanes with
> proven spin characteristics (Taylorcraft and
> Luscombe). Then right-
> ly or wrongly, I reasoned that if I did get into a
> spin with my Piet, I
> would at least be in practice for recovery. I did
> check the stalling be-
> havior of my Piet and did what we call "incipient
> spins" which are
> restricted to the entry phase. Its behavior was
> pretty typical of other
> lightplanes, so I left it at that.
>
> Years ago, a friend (today an airline pilot) built a
> Pietenpol and as-
> ked me whether I had spun mine. I said I hadn't done
> anything further
> than stalls and incipient spins and wasn't
> interested in doing any
> more than that for the reasons listed above. He did
> spin his (solo)
> and said it spun like the proverbial "button on an
> outhouse door".
> As I recall, he said the recovery was not
> instantaneous, but not a
> problem either.
>
> He moved away for a few years and we were out of
> touch. Then one
> fine evening I went flying my Pietenpol and, upon
> returning to our air-
> strip, I noticed a car parked near the runway. It
> was my friend who had
> just been transferred back to our city. He said, "Do
> you remember
> when I asked you whether you had spun your
> Pietenpol, and what you
> told me?" I said I did remember his question and my
> answer, and he
> went on to tell his story which went something like
> this:
>
> His Piet has a fuselage nose tank which was full
> when he took off with
> a passenger on a "joyride". After about an hour, he
> decided to climb
> to a safe altitude and do a spin. They climbed to
> 5000 ft. agl and he
> entered a spin (I don't remember which way) directly
> over a lake. After
> several turns, with the spin fully developed, he
> initiated spin recovery
> actions. The spin flattened with the nose
> alternately bobbing up and
> down and standard recovery procedure had no effect.
> He tried using
> bursts of power, but this only seemed to increase
> the spin rate. The spin
> continued with him trying everything he could think
> of to recover. Finally,
> he managed to stop the spin and recover with about
> 1000 feet of alti-
> tude remaining! His passenger was oblivious to the
> danger and he did
> not enlighten him as to the seriousness of the
> situation. He said to me,
> "Now I know why you aren't interested in doing
> fully-developed spins in
> homebuilts---unless someone has already done them
> with that particular
> airplane."
>
> This fellow at the time was by no means
> inexperienced; he was employed
> as a flying instructor. Possibly this is what saved
> him, although to this
> day
> he doesn't know how he was able to recover from that
> spin.
>
> He thinks the spin flattened due to an aft CG
> condition worsened by the
> fuel burn after over an hour's flying. And the
> passenger's weight could have
> brought the CG back a bit, too. Luckily, my friend
> is a small man who does
> not weigh very much. I shudder to think of what
> might have happened if he
> had been a 200 pounder.
>
> His Piet has been out of service for quite a few
> years awaiting new fabric.
> I'll have to phone him one of these days to persuade
> him to get it going
> again.
>
> So, my friends, watch that CG location and approach
> this sort of thing very
> cautiously. And remember everything your
> instructor(s) told you about inad-
> vertent spins and avoiding them, regardless of what
> you are flying.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Graham Hansen
>
>
>
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Spins in a Pietenpol.... |
Graham,
Rather than we call you chicken it would be more in line to call you the
"wise ole canadian owl"
Corky and many others still around who agree 100%
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
| Subject: | Measure twice... |
Happy New Year!!
I hope everyone had good holidays. I took time off from building
and just got plain crazy with shopping and all the rest of the stuff that go
along with the season.
Yesterday I found myself out in the garage looking at the materials
I bought for the rib jig. I decided to start laying out the measurements
for the rib shape, and start to draw it out. I clamped my 4 ft. rule on
the MDF board,and the rest turned out to be more difficult than I thought.
That is because in my initial purchases of tools, I went to a discount tent
sale, knowing full well the sub-quality of some items that would be there.
I figured to pick and choose carefully. One item I bought was a 4 ft.
steel rule, thinking it would double as a good straight edge. That is all
it is, too. There are 2 areas on this rule where the inches have 15
divisions instead of 16!! Watch out for those Homier Tent Sales!!
I thought my eyes were going buggy for a few minutes! So now I'm
going to spend good money on good tools, especially measurement tools. I
will now lay out my rib with a compass and dividers, reading off my trusty
6" Starret rule.
Learning lessons inch by inch in windy, snowy Oklahoma,
Kent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: corvair engine |
>
>Hi friends
>Kip
>I think that it's very hard to have less than 200
>pounds on the Corvair engine, but if you check the
>weight of the O-200, or other similar certificate
>aircraft engine the weight is around of 200 lbs, about
>my engine i will use a sentra starter, i have removed
>the blower fan,and with this all accesories for it, i
>will use a little alternator (sugessted by Williams
>Wynne) i have removed too the heavy's tubes of the
>heads and i will make a lighter exaust manifold. The
>corvaircraft list it's very usefull for this.
>I will advice to you and the list about the success on
>the engine..
>Thanks for your words, i will expect that you can
>understand me.
>
>happy 2002
>Javier Cruz
Javier,
Glad to hear you are having sucess with your engine. I plan on doing mine
in much the same way, except I will probably put on a starter of the type
William sells.
Your english is fine, I never have any trouble understanding what you are
trying to say. I don't think you would have any idea what I was trying to
say if I wrote in Spanish, so you have no need to apologize!
Cheeers!
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Sheets" <doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Measure twice... |
Kent:
Be careful laying out the dimensions on the drawing also--- I put them in
AutoCad to confirm the accuracy of the rib drawings I received with the
plans, and they did NOT match. So, I used the full size plan view.
"Measure twice, cut once!"
Doug
>From: Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'"
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Measure twice...
>Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 08:12:37 -0600
>
>
>
>Happy New Year!!
>
> I hope everyone had good holidays. I took time off from building
>and just got plain crazy with shopping and all the rest of the stuff that
>go
>along with the season.
> Yesterday I found myself out in the garage looking at the
>materials
>I bought for the rib jig. I decided to start laying out the measurements
>for the rib shape, and start to draw it out. I clamped my 4 ft. rule on
>the MDF board,and the rest turned out to be more difficult than I thought.
>That is because in my initial purchases of tools, I went to a discount tent
>sale, knowing full well the sub-quality of some items that would be there.
>I figured to pick and choose carefully. One item I bought was a 4 ft.
>steel rule, thinking it would double as a good straight edge. That is all
>it is, too. There are 2 areas on this rule where the inches have 15
>divisions instead of 16!! Watch out for those Homier Tent Sales!!
> I thought my eyes were going buggy for a few minutes! So now I'm
>going to spend good money on good tools, especially measurement tools. I
>will now lay out my rib with a compass and dividers, reading off my trusty
>6" Starret rule.
>
>Learning lessons inch by inch in windy, snowy Oklahoma,
>
>Kent
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Heard this story, & as far as I know it is true, Bernard ( as in
Pietenpol ) nearly bought it when his Piet went into a flat spin.
Aft CGs & spins don't go well together.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Measure twice... rib dimensions |
Doug,
Are you saying the rib measurements on the print don't add up to 60"? Wow,
I'll check when I get home. Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Sheets [mailto:doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Measure twice...
Kent:
Be careful laying out the dimensions on the drawing also--- I put them in
AutoCad to confirm the accuracy of the rib drawings I received with the
plans, and they did NOT match. So, I used the full size plan view.
"Measure twice, cut once!"
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Pieters, as Corky likes to call us......
I'm going to blow a horn for Piet builder Gary Meadows
in Texas. He's just earned his CFI.....in addition to being
an A&P and Cardinal owner, father, husband, etc., etc .etc.
Way to go, Gary........PS....how bout a steak dinner in exch.
for my next flight review ?
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
| Subject: | Measure twice... rib dimensions |
My memory is that at least one of the height measurements on the plans puts
a kink in the rib. It's pretty obvious which one is off--I think it's a few
inches back from the leading edge.
Gene Hubbard
-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Hallsten [mailto:KHallsten(at)governair.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Measure twice... rib dimensions
Doug,
Are you saying the rib measurements on the print don't add up to 60"? Wow,
I'll check when I get home. Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Sheets [mailto:doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Measure twice...
Kent:
Be careful laying out the dimensions on the drawing also--- I put them in
AutoCad to confirm the accuracy of the rib drawings I received with the
plans, and they did NOT match. So, I used the full size plan view.
"Measure twice, cut once!"
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
| Subject: | Measure twice... rib dimensions |
This is probably not the measurement Gene mentions, but at the leading edge
on the rib drawing it shows 1-1/2" height. It's the first measurement.
What's that for?
Kent
-----Original Message-----
From: Hubbard, Eugene [mailto:ehubbard(at)titan.com]
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Measure twice... rib dimensions
My memory is that at least one of the height measurements on the plans puts
a kink in the rib. It's pretty obvious which one is off--I think it's a few
inches back from the leading edge.
Gene Hubbard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Measure twice... rib dimensions |
Gene Hubbard advised:
> My memory is that at least one of the height measurements on the plans
puts
> a kink in the rib. It's pretty obvious which one is off--I think it's a
few
> inches back from the leading edge.
Working from the old Flying & Glider Manual reprint, I found enough problems
with the rib dimensions that I couldn't figure out what was supposed to
happen
at all. Wound up calling a friend who had used both that and the
long-fuselage
planes to produce a very sweet plane. He solved the problem by giving me
his
rib jig, which seemed the best of all possible ways out. Years later, the
ribs are
still in good shape--and waiting for me to start on the rest of the plane.
Soon...
after we get through moving to a new house with more space to work and
better
weather to do it in.
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Full size rib drawing----Don Pietenpol |
A fool-proof way of building your Piet ribs correctly is
available here-----no to mention all the other full size plans
for the plane. I can't imagine trying to build off the F&G mags.
Mike C.
$15 plus 1.67 to ship.
http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
| Subject: | Full size rib drawing----Don Pietenpol |
I have all the plans from Donald, and he sent the full size rib drawing. I
don't have the F&G magazine. But I have heard mention of plans changing
with temp and humidity, so I want to draw them out. If I find myself to be
a bad artist, then it will be time to use the drawing. I'll give it another
try tonight.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy [mailto:Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Full size rib drawing----Don Pietenpol
A fool-proof way of building your Piet ribs correctly is
available here-----no to mention all the other full size plans
for the plane. I can't imagine trying to build off the F&G mags.
Mike C.
$15 plus 1.67 to ship.
http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: blowing a horn |
Mike,
Thanks for the attaboy - it was a long hard road, but I finally made it.
They say the that the CFI is the toughest Oral/Practical in aviation, after
mine, I believe it. It was 10+ hours spread over 2 days. I was drained.
Funny thing about the CFI is once you get it, you don't feel any smarter
than before. I was sorta hoping that a magic knowledge switch would go off,
and I'd know everything! Oh well, I guess it's back to the books....
As far as flight reviews, the chance to do one in your plane with you is all
the incentive I need!! Let's go!!
Thanks Mike, and Happy New Year everybody!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Denny <peterthepilot_99(at)yahoo.com> |
G'Day everyone,
As you all know, Fred Nauer the Aviation Coordinator and myself are gearing up
to build the first Pietenpol in a school in America in fact until I'm proven incorrect,
the first in the world!
The aviation magnet hope to purchase the plans towards the end of this year, after
restoring the Gusty with Chapter 25.
Now here's the big ask....
I would welcome from any Pietenpol member a unused set of plans to use strictly
as a classroom teaching aid. To get us thinking prior to purchasing the latest
version of the plans.
The object is, to start teaching plan reading, Technical reading and technical
writing.
On top of all that, I want to start an after-school club where a group of budding
aviators can build as a team a 1/5 scale Pietenpol.
You may contact me by email or by phone here at home on 763-529-5325
Also visit our website: www.mpls.k12.mn.us/washburn
Thanks
Peter and Fred
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: blowing a horn |
Gary, good buddy
Can you give a physical to an AARP member?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | California Corvair Piet---needed as guest of honor |
Forwarded from Grant MacLaren.....
Grant:
I am a member of the San Diego Corvair Club which will host the Great
Western Fan Belt Toss in Palm Springs, Nov. 1-3, 2002.
We are trying to secure the Palm Springs Air Museum as a location for
the meeting. If we are successful, we were hoping that a Corvair
Powered Pietenpol could be a Guest of Honor.
I tried to reach Andrew at the e-mail address posted on their website
but it was returned.
Do you know of anyone in Southern CA who has a Corvair powered plane
that could attend the meeting?
Thank you!
Ken Schifftner
760-966-0194 bus.
760-943-8647 home >>
Ken
I am away from my computer with all its
Piet files, etc. But I can't think of any "West
Coast" Piets w/Corvairs.
For now, I'll BCC this response to some who
might be able to put you in touch with an
active Piet chat group on line. Maybe
someone there can help you.
-=Grant=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeffery Lorimor <jlorimor(at)willinet.net> |
Pieters-
With wing ribs half+ done and plans to build up a Douglas fir spar, I need
to know which Bengelis book has the best spar-building info, especially
with regard to scarf joints and laminating stuff. I will need the info
before Chris Bobka has his next annual book sale, plus I already have
Firewall Forward, so am looking for advice on which book to buy right away.
Thanks
Jeff Lorimor
Boone (midwest RV-6 capital), Iowa
Jeff & Peg Lorimor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Measure twice... |
Kent,
The easiest straight edge is a stretched string. I varnished
down a length of black sewing tread on my rib jig and used that
as a reference line.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
>
>
>Happy New Year!!
>
> I hope everyone had good holidays. I took time off from building
>and just got plain crazy with shopping and all the rest of the stuff that go
>along with the season.
> Yesterday I found myself out in the garage looking at the materials
>I bought for the rib jig. I decided to start laying out the measurements
>for the rib shape, and start to draw it out. I clamped my 4 ft. rule on
>the MDF board,and the rest turned out to be more difficult than I thought.
>That is because in my initial purchases of tools, I went to a discount tent
>sale, knowing full well the sub-quality of some items that would be there.
>I figured to pick and choose carefully. One item I bought was a 4 ft.
>steel rule, thinking it would double as a good straight edge.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
Jeff I would recommend the EAA Wood Aircraft Building Techniques book (in
addition to the four Bingelis books). I have used it a lot. Next to those,
I recommend the EAA Aircraft Welding book (there's an awful lot of welding
in a wooden airplane).
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffery
Lorimor
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bengelis books
Pieters-
With wing ribs half+ done and plans to build up a Douglas fir spar, I need
to know which Bengelis book has the best spar-building info, especially
with regard to scarf joints and laminating stuff. I will need the info
before Chris Bobka has his next annual book sale, plus I already have
Firewall Forward, so am looking for advice on which book to buy right away.
Thanks
Jeff Lorimor
Boone (midwest RV-6 capital), Iowa
Jeff & Peg Lorimor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bengelis books |
>
>Pieters-
>With wing ribs half+ done and plans to build up a Douglas fir spar, I need
>to know which Bengelis book has the best spar-building info, especially
>with regard to scarf joints and laminating stuff. I will need the info
>before Chris Bobka has his next annual book sale, plus I already have
>Firewall Forward, so am looking for advice on which book to buy right away.
>
>Thanks
>
>Jeff Lorimor
>Boone (midwest RV-6 capital), Iowa
>Jeff & Peg Lorimor
Jeff,
Of all the books I bought through Chris Bobka, the only one that covers
spars & scarf joints in any detail is the EAA book "Aircraft Building
Techniques - Wood".
Of the Bingelis books, the one only that deals with wood construction at
all is his "The Sportplane Builder" & mostly he focuses on ribs and plywood
wing skins (although there is some detail regarding scarfing plywood &
tools to do it).
Hope this helps.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Season greetings |
Jim,
Saw John Cowen last night at our EAA meeting and thought about you. It sure
is a small world isn't it?
Are you making any progress on your project? I am religiously working on my
daily.
I wish you a happy and prosperous New Year!
Ted Brousseau
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Season greetings |
messages such as this should be made off list,
directly to the recipient
--- Ted Brousseau wrote:
> Brousseau"
>
> Jim,
>
> Saw John Cowen last night at our EAA meeting and
> thought about you. It sure
> is a small world isn't it?
>
> Are you making any progress on your project? I am
> religiously working on my
> daily.
>
> I wish you a happy and prosperous New Year!
>
> Ted Brousseau
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Measure twice... |
Doug, I was going to use the full size layout also, but when I measured
the distance between the spars it was 3/4" to long!!! I have to
hand draw the airfoil onto the MDF board I'm using.
If anyone has an accurate full size layout for the rib I'd appreciate a
copy of it. I'll gladly reimburse for the costs.
George Allen
Harrisburg, PA
GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
(wait'n for wood Peit'. builder)
>From: "Doug Sheets" <doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Measure twice...
>
> Kent:
> Be careful laying out the dimensions on the drawing also--- I put them in
> AutoCad to confirm the accuracy of the rib drawings I received with the
> plans, and they did NOT match. So, I used the full size plan view.
> "Measure twice, cut once!"
> Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Re: Homier tools |
Hello Kent: Believe it or not, I've had pretty good luck with Homier
and Harbor tools--and had some bad luck with "good" tools. When you
find rulers and tape measures you can live with, gard them with all your
life. Use that one and only tape measure through out your project. That
way if you have variences, at least they remain the same. Leon S. in
Ks. Glad the snow is in Ok.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
One of the old magazine articles told of BHP nearly buying the farm
during a spin.Turns out that the front control stick was built too
tall-or the front instrument panel wa built too low. with the stick
banked then pushed forward, the stick was now caught in front of the
inst. panels. After he figured it out and brought the stick around to
the rear of the panel, the plane recovered nicely. Probably nicer than
his nerves.. Leon S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mikebell(at)sc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib construction |
Kent and Doug and Gene,
Gene remembers correctly, there is a height error on one of the elevations
on the rib dimensions. It is discussed in the archives and/or listed in the
known plan errors. The full sized plan view will be right only if the
temperature and humidity are luckily correct at the moment you are viewing
it and if the paper wasn't stretched in handling some time and so on. I
looked at the measurement between the spars on mine and it was off by about
a half an inch. That would certainly have upset things when I got to wing
assembly.
Doug, could you fix the one bad dimension and get a big plotter to draw full
sized rib plans on something dimensionally stable? Sell those if the
Pietenpol family allows, or get them to sell them. That would be a lot
better for all involved than using the full sized paper plan. Of course,
Kent is really doing it right. But, measure twice. I did mine and was
measuring from the bottom of the board that I used and did it in too much of
a hurry. Luckily, PF Beck, down in Aiken stopped by to visit and brought a
rib with him. When layed on top of mine there was a difference. I had
about a 1/4 inch less height where I had subtracted the the difference to
the bottom of the board in my head and not rechecked. Luckily, I only have
five ribs to trash.
My two cents gentlemen.
I thought my eyes were going buggy for a few minutes! So now I'm
> going to spend good money on good tools, especially measurement tools. I
> will now lay out my rib with a compass and dividers, reading off my
trusty
> 6" Starret rule.
>
> Learning lessons inch by inch in windy, snowy Oklahoma,
>
> Kent
>
> Kent:
> Be careful laying out the dimensions on the drawing also--- I put them in
> AutoCad to confirm the accuracy of the rib drawings I received with the
> plans, and they did NOT match. So, I used the full size plan view.
> "Measure twice, cut once!"
> Doug
>
> Be careful laying out the dimensions on the drawing also--- I put them in
> AutoCad to confirm the accuracy of the rib drawings I received with the
> plans, and they did NOT match. So, I used the full size plan view.
> "Measure twice, cut once!"
> Doug
>
>
> My memory is that at least one of the height measurements on the plans
puts
> a kink in the rib. It's pretty obvious which one is off--I think it's a
few
> inches back from the leading edge.
>
> Gene Hubbard
>
> >
> This is probably not the measurement Gene mentions, but at the leading
edge
> on the rib drawing it shows 1-1/2" height. It's the first measurement.
> What's that for?
>
> Kent
>
> ----->
> A fool-proof way of building your Piet ribs correctly is
> available here-----no to mention all the other full size plans
> for the plane. I can't imagine trying to build off the F&G mags.
>
> Mike C.
>
> $15 plus 1.67 to ship.
>
> > I have all the plans from Donald, and he sent the full size rib drawing.
I
> don't have the F&G magazine. But I have heard mention of plans changing
> with temp and humidity, so I want to draw them out. If I find myself to
be
> a bad artist, then it will be time to use the drawing. I'll give it
another
> try tonight.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
"'KHallsten(at)Governair.com'"
| Subject: | Measure twice... rib dimensions |
Kent,
The 1-1/2 inch measurement is the height of the most forward point of the
leading edge (after shaping). I'm sure thaat NACA had a real term for it,
but it's the height of the first point of both the top and bottom wing
surface. The trailing edge is 60 inches from this station. Neadless to
say, the finished airfoil is vertical at this point. Also, since the
leading edge is attached at an angle, the rough material will stick out a
bit from this point before you plane (or whatever) it off.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Hallsten [mailto:KHallsten(at)governair.com]
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Measure twice... rib dimensions
This is probably not the measurement Gene mentions, but at the leading edge
on the rib drawing it shows 1-1/2" height. It's the first measurement.
What's that for?
Kent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
| Subject: | Someone have a list of plan errors? |
Does someone have a list they could make available? If you can e-mail them
it would be great!
In looking for a list of known plan errors, I see in an archive search the
aircamper.org site had a list, but now all they have are pictures and
videos.
Kent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Full size rib drawing |
If you go to www.aircamper.no-ip.com you can access all the pictures that
were in the old aircamper.org -- go down about 3/4 the way to a file called
pietenpol.dwg -- this is an AutoCAD drawing of the Piet rib -- it is pretty
good around the spars -- compared to the rib ordinates it is about 1/8" to
1/4" thicker & the trailing edge is thicker than it could be. If you don't
wait too long between printing & laying out your rib (same or next day --
right now in KS you could wait a week -),
it should be real close. I printed mine out at work on legal size paper
(took
6 pages) and layed them out with the 27 3/4" between the spars.
If anyone with a "cheap & cheerful" CAD program can use this file if it will
recognize *.dwg -- if your CAD only recognizes *.dxf files I have it
converted to that format -- only about 85k worth.
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten(at)governair.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Full size rib drawing----Don Pietenpol
>
> I have all the plans from Donald, and he sent the full size rib drawing.
I
> don't have the F&G magazine. But I have heard mention of plans changing
> with temp and humidity, so I want to draw them out. If I find myself to
be
> a bad artist, then it will be time to use the drawing. I'll give it
another
> try tonight.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael D Cuy [mailto:Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Full size rib drawing----Don Pietenpol
>
>
>
>
> A fool-proof way of building your Piet ribs correctly is
> available here-----no to mention all the other full size plans
> for the plane. I can't imagine trying to build off the F&G mags.
>
> Mike C.
>
> $15 plus 1.67 to ship.
>
> http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: blowing a horn |
Congradulations Gary on the CFI. No, I think the A and P was the hardest.
That includes the three type ratings, the ATP, and the CFI. You have all
the hard ones out of the way.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: blowing a horn
>
> Mike,
>
> Thanks for the attaboy - it was a long hard road, but I finally made it.
> They say the that the CFI is the toughest Oral/Practical in aviation,
after
> mine, I believe it. It was 10+ hours spread over 2 days. I was drained.
>
> Funny thing about the CFI is once you get it, you don't feel any smarter
> than before. I was sorta hoping that a magic knowledge switch would go
off,
> and I'd know everything! Oh well, I guess it's back to the books....
>
> As far as flight reviews, the chance to do one in your plane with you is
all
> the incentive I need!! Let's go!!
>
> Thanks Mike, and Happy New Year everybody!
> Gary Meadows
> Spring, TX
>
>
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hofmann" <jhofmann(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: blowing a horn |
I have to agree with Chris on the A&P. Two solid 8 hour days of oral and
practical exams. One day for A and one day for P. Those were probably the
most intense days of my life and I remember being dog tired and greatly
excited/relieved at the same time. It was worth it. Congrats on the CFI
Gary.
-john-
>
> Congradulations Gary on the CFI. No, I think the A and P was the hardest.
> That includes the three type ratings, the ATP, and the CFI. You have all
> the hard ones out of the way.
>
> Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: blowing a horn |
Chris & John,
Thanks for the congrats everybody, y'all are right, the A&P really is the
toughest. I know this has been a little off topic, and I'm a little
embarrassed by the attention (but appreciative!), but if it serves any
purpose, it's that anyone can set any goal and achieve it with hard work and
perserverence! Just like the Piet project we're all building. I consider it
by far the most ambitious project I've ever undertaken. Well, outside of
marriage and children that is.
Of all those past personal accomplishments and ones to come, the one I
think that will be the proudest for me, is the day that I climb out of my
Piet after that first flight, then I stop and look back at it and realize
that I built it!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | full size rib drawing |
"Michael Conkling" wrote:
>If you go to www.aircamper.no-ip.com
>go down about 3/4 the way to a file called pietenpol.dwg
Aha! Once again the value of this list (and the websites) proves out! I
was going to draw this up in AutoCAD one rainy Saturday, but now all I have
to do is plot it and spend a little time over the dining room table with a
ruler to check it out. Excellent!
BTW- there is lots of other good stuff on this site. A guy could spend lots
of time browsing through the images and other good stuff there...
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, Oregon
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
| Subject: | full size rib drawing |
December 13, 2001 - January 04, 2002
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-cf