Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-cl
February 21, 2002 - March 05, 2002
| Subject: | Covering Supplies |
Pieters,
Thanks for all the help on my question. I and all Pieters are wiser as a
result.
I called Superflite only to get a message that they are temporary closed and
will be back in business next week. Since measuring my upper wing and
necessary overlaps I conclude that it requires 67" for the upper wing.
Superflite shows 1.8 @ 67" for $3.95 per yard. I think this will fill my bill
perfectly and will on Monday morn order 37 yards in prep for covering. A few
extra yards to do some experimenting. I like the idea of the final coat,
glossy using Glidden's urethane industrial heavy duty floor enamel. I want to
see how this adheres to the basic Polybrush. In between I will diddle with
some latex mixed with a little silver powder. Boy this sure will make some
kind of Gumbo, but all realize that we in La are used to doing the opposite
and radical.
Anyway, thanks for your interest and input to my original question.
Corky in La where you could fly a Piet today and see the world
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
IF any of you have a recipe for covering with non aircraft certified
materials and are still around to tell about it I would like to try some of
your Gumbo.
Corky in La where the crawfish are sooooo nice and teeeeeeeeeender and
gooooooooooooood. Bleed you yankees bleed.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 2/21/02 7:52:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
> Pieters,
> IF any of you have a recipe for covering with non aircraft certified
> materials and are still around to tell about it I would like to try some of
>
> your Gumbo.
> Corky in La where the crawfish are sooooo nice and teeeeeeeeeender and
> gooooooooooooood. Bleed you yankees bleed.
>
>
>
Corky,
Here is the process I use for dacron. 1.8 or 2.7 homebuilders dacron, non
certified surface tapes, reinforcing tape and cord all from AS&S (because its
handy for me). Poly fiber brand Poly tac and Poly brush from anywhere you
want. Follow the Poly fiber process up to but not including the fabric fill.
Fill the fabric (brush and/or small roller) and paint with Polyurathane oil
based paint (floor paint), no silver, two coats total. If you want silver
then fill with silver paint and use your color choice over that. The latex
house paint would be used the same way. This process was publisbed in a
Kitplanes issue several years ago. I am now considering puting cotton on my
Scout wing just because I haven't worked with it in a while. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: John and Jean Dilatush |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fisherman Caye" <cayecaulker(at)justice.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: John and Jean Dilatush
>
> Many thanks to John and Jean Dilatush who sent me a very encouraging
package of photos of their plane. If it was meant to encourage, sorry it
makes me despondent.
>
> ( Cry! Waaauuuughhh! I'll never finish?)
>
> Nor do I feel up to making a plane that will even come close to the
quality you built. That thing is gorgeous.
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ray,
I am sorry that the pictures made you sad, but remember, you asked me for a
picture of the prop reduction unit that I made.
I don't know what your hurry is about building your plane, I didn't start
construction until I was 68 (now I am 74+). You're still just a kid!
Don't think of building the whole a plane, just take it one day at a time,
one part at a time, and then sooner than you would believe, all the parts
will assemble into the finished plane. "It's the journey, not the
destination".
John
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Pacetti <gpacetti(at)yahoo.com> |
Corky,
You are killing me with this talk of CRAWFISH. Been
living in Fla. for two years now and haven't had any
in all that time. From Morgan City and MISSING it
BADLY.
Dean Auburndale, Fla.
--- Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
> Isablcorky(at)aol.com
>
> Pieters,
> IF any of you have a recipe for covering with non
> aircraft certified
> materials and are still around to tell about it I
> would like to try some of
> your Gumbo.
> Corky in La where the crawfish are sooooo nice and
> teeeeeeeeeender and
> gooooooooooooood. Bleed you yankees bleed.
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://sports.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Pacetti <gpacetti(at)yahoo.com> |
Corky,
You are killing me with this talk of CRAWFISH. Been
living in Fla. for two years now and haven't had any
in all that time. From Morgan City and MISSING it
BADLY.
Dean Auburndale, Fla.
--- Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
> Isablcorky(at)aol.com
>
> Pieters,
> IF any of you have a recipe for covering with non
> aircraft certified
> materials and are still around to tell about it I
> would like to try some of
> your Gumbo.
> Corky in La where the crawfish are sooooo nice and
> teeeeeeeeeender and
> gooooooooooooood. Bleed you yankees bleed.
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://sports.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
That's 51% of the SECOND 95%, isn't it???
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy [mailto:Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: addendum to 1.8 oz
Doug B. is right. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using
the 2.7 oz fabric at all. Another one of those thousand choices we
have and decisions to make when building a plane.
(at least we learn something----not like those bolt-together "I don't know
how these things rate for the 51% rule:))))
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | 6000 ft Pietenpol airport landings? |
The big problem is not getting at high altitude... is
taking off in grass (or dirt) strips in altitudes over
5,000 ft.
The Piet was not design for bush pilots in mountains,
and a new more lifting airfoil will not be Piet.
There might be other planes, for traveling SAFETLY in
those altitudes (I am not saying that it cannot be
done in a Piet, but will not be fun). I know what I
am talking about. My aerodrome (grass s trip) is at
5,029 ft ASL and all the airports near here are over
6,000 ft, we have 7,000+ altitudes 20 minutes flying
away all around...
This is why I never built a Piet, but I just love this
wonder. Hope I lived at less than 1,000 ft, like
Corky in wonderfull LA...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Christian Bobka wrote:
> Bobka"
>
> I had a 65 hp taylorcraft rented from Evergreen
> Field in Vancouver WA that I
> took above Mount Hood in Oregon. With a little
> orographic lifting, I was
> easily at 12 or 13 k. Also, took my 65 hp Tcraft
> above some building
> cumulus in Texas one summer day (the cumulus has to
> push air out of its way
> as it goes up and that was the air I was in). I was
> up to 14,500' when I
> bugged out because I was so cold. I did take a
> picture of the altimeter
> though.
>
> The point here is that if you learn to use the air
> currents to your
> advantage, you can get pretty high on very little
> power. I imagine there
> are some good breezes coming onshore in Belize and
> good rising air as you
> get inland. Ray?
>
> Chris Bobka
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On
> Behalf Of
> Dmott9(at)aol.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 6000 ft Pietenpol
> airport landings?
>
>
>
> In a message dated 2/19/02 4:20:19 PM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> cayecaulker(at)justice.com writes:
>
> << On the archive, there is mention of a fellow in
> Utah flying over 9,500
> ft mountains, I THINK that is what he implied? It
> was a humorous piece
> about
> a run in with the law and smoking up a small town.
> >>
>
> Ray, you might want to check out this site which
> details the mountains that
> Steve and Duane climbed over. 10,500' at one point !
>
> Steve
> Eldredge's Hangar or
> http://aircamper.byu.edu/Piet.htm
>
> Here's a quote from Steve's trip log:
>
> " We landed at Vernal behind 2 RV-4's while Duane
> play's chicken with a
> Skywest Commuter. He wisely bugs out. On to Rock
> Springs means back up to
> 9500'. Pretty country and quite high for our little
> Pietenpols. We top out
> at Elk Mountain at 10,500' climbing in early
> afternoon boomer thermals.
> After a quick lunch at Rawlins we head off for
> Laramie. About this time we
> learn why we brought so much padding. I have 5
> inches of soft foam and
> Duane
> is using his sleeping pad. "
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://sports.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: More on lightweight- Fabric--Corky |
When I suggested using 2.7oz fabric for the top of the wing
for the sole purpose of easily sourcing material wide enough
to do the job I had no idea this would lead to such an amazingly
wide ranging and educational discussion. I'm glad to hear that
in the end a source for wide 1.7oz fabric was found. From the
sounds of it there is a distinct possibility that it might not be
available by the time I need it.Circumstances change constantly.
products are dropped.
The discussions on alternate woods.engines,paints and ways of
doing things illustrate the willingness of all of us to learn to
think sideways, out of the box. Bernard would be proud. Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: More on lightweight- Fabric--Corky
>
> Group- Once again the old hands (and I mean IA's, A&P's...) at the
airport
> told me
> there was no reason to use a heavier fabric on the Piet so that sealed it
> for me.
> There are some pro's and con's to using the 1.8 vs. the 2.7 or whatever
> they weigh.
> The 1.8 is NICE to work with----it goes around corners easier, it fills
> with paint easier
> as the weave is much tighter than the 2.7, and is tough as nails like all
> the fabrics.
> The cons include dangers when pressing with your iron over fittings, bolt
> heads, hard
> objects just under your fabric---the heat builds up quickly if you linger
> and boom, you've
> got a burn hole and a hole to patch. Using various grades of
Scotch-Brite
> pads to take
> off the 'nubs' the dust, high spots between your coats and or sandpaper
you
> can do the
> same thing---sand or rub right thru the fabric more easily with the 1.8
oz.
> when you are
> over "bumps" and things under your fabric. You get so in tune with this
> danger that you
> find yourself running one hand over an area to be sanded to find what is
> "under there" and
> the other hand to do the work and avoid sanding thru. This danger is true
> of any fabric, just
> that you must be more aware of it w/ the lighter fabric. Another nice
> thing about the 1.7 is
> that if you use the 1.7 oz finishing tapes, edge tapes, pinked or
> otherwise they are nice and
> easy to work with----especially around corners. They shrink quick tho
too
> and curl and narrow
> if you over heat them just like the 2.7, but at a faster pace. I had to
> shop Wicks, Superflite,
> Poly Wolly, and others to find all my 1.7 oz tapes and such. Not all
> places carry the lighter
> finishing tapes that you will need. I DID follow the good procedures
> outlined in the Polyfiber
> manual tho did not use their process. Dope.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | 6000 ft Pietenpol airport landings? |
Gary
Thanks for those high altitude airport insights. I need mine to land about 3000
ft and take off. There is a photo of the spot on the web page.
http://members.tripod.com/~speculation/pietpage3.html
Need to commute between the capital of Belize, a sleepy cow town of 4000 people
about 35 miles away as the crow flies and that ridge in the photo.
4000 ft good climb to clear everything in Belize is fine. Was just exploring
other ideas, like going on down to Volcan in Panama with it.
I wonder if one built in those lifter things out front of the standard wing leading
edge. I have seen planes built with those things in permanently, since
they were destined low and slow anyway, for Africa. The Storch uses a retractable
form. But planes are now being built and sold with permanent fixtures.
Whether it remains a genuine Piet is not important to me. Got a job to do, and
making it do it within my budget is the main story. Got to work with what
I got. The original choice was a parafoil glider.
Far as the cliff in that picture the other side of Hidden Valley Falls, the runway
should run straight to the cliff edge. For sailplanes, a winch launch could
be utilized then. But for the Pietenpol commuter to town down in the lowland
below around 600 ft high, just running it off the cliff should work for takeoff?
Belmopan the capital is where I would buy groceries.
Ray
On Thu, 21 February 2002, Gary Gower wrote:
>
>
> The big problem is not getting at high altitude... is
> taking off in grass (or dirt) strips in altitudes over
> 5,000 ft.
>
> The Piet was not design for bush pilots in mountains,
> and a new more lifting airfoil will not be Piet.
>
> There might be other planes, for traveling SAFETLY in
> those altitudes (I am not saying that it cannot be
> done in a Piet, but will not be fun). I know what I
> am talking about. My aerodrome (grass s trip) is at
> 5,029 ft ASL and all the airports near here are over
> 6,000 ft, we have 7,000+ altitudes 20 minutes flying
> away all around...
>
> This is why I never built a Piet, but I just love this
> wonder. Hope I lived at less than 1,000 ft, like
> Corky in wonderfull LA...
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower.
>
> --- Christian Bobka wrote:
> > Bobka"
> >
> > I had a 65 hp taylorcraft rented from Evergreen
> > Field in Vancouver WA that I
> > took above Mount Hood in Oregon. With a little
> > orographic lifting, I was
> > easily at 12 or 13 k. Also, took my 65 hp Tcraft
> > above some building
> > cumulus in Texas one summer day (the cumulus has to
> > push air out of its way
> > as it goes up and that was the air I was in). I was
> > up to 14,500' when I
> > bugged out because I was so cold. I did take a
> > picture of the altimeter
> > though.
> >
> > The point here is that if you learn to use the air
> > currents to your
> > advantage, you can get pretty high on very little
> > power. I imagine there
> > are some good breezes coming onshore in Belize and
> > good rising air as you
> > get inland. Ray?
> >
> > Chris Bobka
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On
> > Behalf Of
> > Dmott9(at)aol.com
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 6000 ft Pietenpol
> > airport landings?
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 2/19/02 4:20:19 PM Eastern
> > Standard Time,
> > cayecaulker(at)justice.com writes:
> >
> > << On the archive, there is mention of a fellow in
> > Utah flying over 9,500
> > ft mountains, I THINK that is what he implied? It
> > was a humorous piece
> > about
> > a run in with the law and smoking up a small town.
> > >>
> >
> > Ray, you might want to check out this site which
> > details the mountains that
> > Steve and Duane climbed over. 10,500' at one point !
> >
> > Steve
> > Eldredge's Hangar or
> > http://aircamper.byu.edu/Piet.htm
> >
> > Here's a quote from Steve's trip log:
> >
> > " We landed at Vernal behind 2 RV-4's while Duane
> > play's chicken with a
> > Skywest Commuter. He wisely bugs out. On to Rock
> > Springs means back up to
> > 9500'. Pretty country and quite high for our little
> > Pietenpols. We top out
> > at Elk Mountain at 10,500' climbing in early
> > afternoon boomer thermals.
> > After a quick lunch at Rawlins we head off for
> > Laramie. About this time we
> > learn why we brought so much padding. I have 5
> > inches of soft foam and
> > Duane
> > is using his sleeping pad. "
> >
> >
> >
> > Forum -
> > Contributions of
> > any other form
> >
> > latest messages.
> > other List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/search
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> http://sports.yahoo.com
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | engine for Pietenpol |
STIRRING THINGS UP! DEBATE.
Stabilizer, rudder and elevator comments.
Still haven't got an engine for the Pietenpol. Haven't chosen one yet.
But interestingly enough, have been offered a dozen so far. Mostly Continental
aircraft types. But all the prices asked are around $3500. Which is beyond
my budget to actually buy an engine.
In general terms, I plan to follow the same methodology of Bernie Pietenpol,
which is get an engine from a car and if you can't buy the parts at your local
auto parts store, forget it.
Should be able to get an engine and everything for between $300 and $500 even
if I have to buy the car to get it. Maybe another $1200 to $1800 rebuilding
and converting it at the outside cost figure. That is my estimate. But then
you would know what you have?
-------------
Regarding those aluminum cast fittings for the rudder and the elevators. Am
in process of installing them. For $70 I think you guys on the list shouting
Aircraft stuff, AN this and that, you will die and we are only interested in your
saftey and the two guys that said STOP HIM, call the FAA, or his local CHAPTER,
led me astray. I chalk it up to my own inexperience and not following common
sense! But I also have a 6 ft section of Aircraft piano hinge and believe
me, that would have been a better choice. But have to use my $70 now. But
just three pintel and gudgeons on the rudder looks weak to me. It is not a choice
I would make, if I know what I know now, after spending my money.
I think if anybody else ( newbie ) is following along, I would use the Aircraft
aluminum piano hinge. Two 6 ft lengths at $10 each would do the job. I'd
cut it in 8 inch or 10 inch sections and put on the rudder, three sections on
each side. About 400 % stronger than what I am using, those three aluminum pintel
and gudgeons and at a savings of 75 % in cost, for a safer and stronger rudder
operation. I understand from Craig you can change the pins, or wire,
to get stronger material too.
Just a newbies amateur opinion.
-------------------------------------------
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Fisherman,
It was easy. Call, write or e-mail those beauros in Oak City and tell them,
don't ask them, that you want your tail numbers NOW. No talk and tarry but
action is what you want. Tell them you're old enough, and ugly enough to have
experienced that damn yankee beauro procrastination thru your years and you
don't intend to stand for any more. Tell them who you are, where you've been,
what you've done, who you know, especially the phone numbers of the senators
and reps from Oakie land, how much taxes you pay, you're address in Palm
Beach and any other incidentals which you could anticipate their asking.
Don't forget to let them know you shop at Wally world and you hold a Sam's
card in good standing.
I'll bet you get your number before you will have time to whistle Dixie.
Corky in beautiful La where the sky is but one color today, Pietenpol Blue
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | fixed leading edge wing slats Pietenpol |
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/index1.html
Anybody tried building and installing a set of fixed leading edge wing slats
on a Pietenpol?
With the Clark Y airfoil, I do not know if it would be appropriate and work?
I haven't a clue on how those things are designed?
Anybody have a source?
Ray
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | permanent fixed leading edge slats on Pietenpol |
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-design-wing.html
Here is the theory on leading edge wing slats
You design engineers, want to comment on whether the leading edge slat permanently
fixed on the Piet wing would work and increase lift? There is increased
drag apparently, but how bad that might be I could not guess?
I'd be interested in some construction and design ideas if you consider it practical?
Ray
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | fixed leading edge wing slats Pietenpol |
Anybody tried building and installing a set of fixed leading edge wing
slats on a Pietenpol?
With the Clark Y airfoil, I do not know if it would be appropriate and
work? I haven't a clue on how those things are designed?
Anybody have a source?
Ray
Ray, the Pietenpol did not use a Clark Y airfoil. According to BH
Pietenpol, the airfoil is pretty close to an Eiffel 36, with the ordinates
increased by about 25%. My brother (also an engineer) did some research and
the closest airfoil he has found to the Pietenpol airfoil is a USA 27. I
don't know where he found it. I looked in my "Theory of Wing Sections"
book, but it doesn't list the USA series of airfoils (curious, because the
USA 35B was the airfoil used in the Piper Cub, and every rag-wing Piper ever
built, also in the Aztec twin engine).
Anyway, designing a leading edge slot would not be a trivial task. Movable
slats like DeHavilland provided on their Moth biplanes would be even more
complicated. The benefits probably would not justify the extra weight and
complexity. If you notice, most planes that have fixed slots in their
leading edge (e.g., Globe Swifts, some Stinsons) just have them on the
outboard portion of the wing, in line with the ailerons. These are not so
much to generate high lift as to keep the boundary layer attached to that
portion of the wing at high angles of attack to maintain aileron control
throughout the stall. There is a drag penalty at cruise for such features.
Generally, when you look at a wing that has slots in it, you know some
engineer screwed up somewhere in the initial design and the slots were
probably added during the initial flight testing of the aircraft to correct
some undesirable flight characteristics.
The Pietenpol already has a pretty good high lift (and high drag) airfoil.
It is simplicity itself. If you want it to perform better, build it
lighter. In all these old planes (including my much more modern 1947 Cessna
140) any additional weight makes a huge difference in the way it flies. I
can tell a great deal of difference in the Cessna's performance just going
from half full tanks to full tanks, and that is only a difference of 75 lbs.
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: permanent fixed leading edge slats on Pietenpol |
----- Original Message -----
From: Fisherman Caye
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 1:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: permanent fixed leading edge slats on
Pietenpol
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-design-wing.html
Here is the theory on leading edge wing slats
You design engineers, want to comment on whether the leading edge
slat permanently fixed on the Piet wing would work and increase lift?
There is increased drag apparently, but how bad that might be I could
not guess?
I'd be interested in some construction and design ideas if you
consider it practical?
Ray
--------------------------------
Yeah, I got one, build the airplane the way it was designed. It has
only been flying for 60 plus years.
It aint broke, don't fix it.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hardaway <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: permanent fixed leading edge slats on Pietenpol |
Fisherman Caye wrote:
> http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-design-wing.html
> Here is the theory on leading edge wing slats
> You design engineers, want to comment on whether the leading edge slat permanently
fixed on the Piet wing would work and increase lift? There is increased
drag apparently, but how bad that might be I could not guess?
>
> I'd be interested in some construction and design ideas if you consider it
practical?
>
> Ray
Ray,
Keep in mind when you read this that my aeronautical engineering is years behind
me and clouded by distance.
The Pietenpols airfoil is a relatively thin section, is highly cambered, and
has a slight trailing edge reflex.
A leading edge slat is intended to allow an airfoil to reach a higher angle
of attack before stall than it is ordinarily capable of , which gets a higher
coefficient of lift. The slat ONLY gets you more lift by letting
you get to a higher angle of attack.
The camber of the Piet airfoil already achieves a fairly high angle of attack.
Even if you successfully built a slat, you probably wouldnt want to try to
land with it because your tail wheel would contact the ground,
dropping the nose, while your mains were still way too high. You might have to
build stronger main gear, adding yet more weight and cost.
A trailing edge flap, on the other hand, gets a higher lift coefficient at
any given angle of attack. This means you can land slower in the same attitude
as with an un-flapped wing.
Since the existing Piet airfoil section is slightly reflexed, a trailing edge
flap makes a little bit more sense. On the Piet, a trailing edge flap could
be built the same way the ailerons are and actuated by a simple
manual device of some kind.
The Piets been flying for a lot of years and lots of other people have faced
the same problems in the past. When I did a quick search in the archive, I
didnt find anything on flaps. This tells me that either there
hasnt been any real effort to develop any or my search skills need work.
All this aside, with 145 square feet, the Piet already has plenty of wing and
plenty of lift and, properly flown, can just about land inside its own shadow.
All it really fails on is power. Either leading edge slats
or trailing edge flaps will take more time and money and add more weight and complexity.
And, even if you built the absolutely perfect wing, with slats, flaps,
drooping ailerons and active boundary layer control, you would
still only get a few mph off your already slow landing speed.
Build the little bird light, go on a reasonable diet (have the crawfish and
gator steak but go easy on the butter), get the most horsepower you can afford
and you wont have to pay the locals to hack down too many trees
on that Maya Mountains ridge.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Wilcox" <craigwilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: permanent fixed leading edge slats on Pietenpol |
> Fisherman Caye wrote:
>
> > http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-design-wing.html
> > Here is the theory on leading edge wing slats
> > You design engineers, want to comment on whether the leading edge slat
permanently fixed on the Piet wing would work and increase lift? There is
increased drag apparently, but how bad that might be I could not guess?
> >
> > I'd be interested in some construction and design ideas if you
consider it practical?
> >
> > Ray
>
> Ray,
> Keep in mind when you read this that my aeronautical engineering is
years behind me and clouded by distance.
> The Pietenpols airfoil is a relatively thin section, is highly
cambered, and has a slight trailing edge reflex.
> A leading edge slat is intended to allow an airfoil to reach a higher
angle of attack before stall than it is ordinarily capable of , which gets a
higher coefficient of lift. The slat ONLY gets you more lift by letting
> you get to a higher angle of attack.
> The camber of the Piet airfoil already achieves a fairly high angle of
attack. Even if you successfully built a slat, you probably wouldnt want to
try to land with it because your tail wheel would contact the ground,
> dropping the nose, while your mains were still way too high. You might
have to build stronger main gear, adding yet more weight and cost.
> A trailing edge flap, on the other hand, gets a higher lift
coefficient at any given angle of attack. This means you can land slower in
the same attitude as with an un-flapped wing.
> Since the existing Piet airfoil section is slightly reflexed, a
trailing edge flap makes a little bit more sense. On the Piet, a trailing
edge flap could be built the same way the ailerons are and actuated by a
simple
> manual device of some kind.
> The Piets been flying for a lot of years and lots of other people have
faced the same problems in the past. When I did a quick search in the
archive, I didnt find anything on flaps. This tells me that either there
> hasnt been any real effort to develop any or my search skills need work.
> All this aside, with 145 square feet, the Piet already has plenty of
wing and plenty of lift and, properly flown, can just about land inside its
own shadow. All it really fails on is power. Either leading edge slats
> or trailing edge flaps will take more time and money and add more weight
and complexity. And, even if you built the absolutely perfect wing, with
slats, flaps, drooping ailerons and active boundary layer control, you would
> still only get a few mph off your already slow landing speed.
> Build the little bird light, go on a reasonable diet (have the
crawfish and gator steak but go easy on the butter), get the most horsepower
you can afford and you wont have to pay the locals to hack down too many
trees
> on that Maya Mountains ridge.
>
> Mike
Ray -
I can only second what Mike ahs written. If you have to have more lift with
the Piet's wing, convert the section from the cabane strut to the aileron
into flaps. This will require some rethinking on wing spars, especially the
rear one. It will add weight and complexity.
The Piet flies extremely well for what it is - it simply needs more power -
to a point. When you start going over about 90 HP, you are adding fuel
consumption/weight without appreciable gain (too much drag!). Stick a Cont.
85 on it, and have at it. It will climb, with the right prop, like a
homesick angel, get on and off the ground in just a little space, and be
light and economical.
Now I realize that you, like most of us, are on a tight budget, and that a
C-85 will set you back $2.5 - 3.5 K. BUT! That is a one time expense,
you'll get many hundreds, if not thousands, or hours of use from it, it will
be light and dependable, and easy on the fuel. That's the way the Piet is
designed.. Keep it light, keep it simple. The old rule of airplane
building: Simplicate and add lightness!
If you really want a STOL plane, you're going to have to part with many more
dollars than you already have... My Duce gets on and off in about 300', but
it is a lot bigger, more complex, and costs a whole lot more than that Piet
would!
Off-list, send me your address so I can come visit!
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Pacetti <gpacetti(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Aerial |
Ray;
Have you checked out the Pietenpol Aerial? It is a
Piet with biplane wings. The plans are sold by St.
Croix Aircraft and claims a shorter take-off distance
and lower stall speed.
Dean Auburndale, Fla.
http://sports.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: project status |
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
Hi George
The strongest glue joint is a freshly planed wood.
If you sand the wood you get saw dust in the joint and it's not as
strong.
Even if you use air to blow the dust out.
Dale Mpls.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fabric--Corky |
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
The weight is not just in the fabric.
Thicker fabric means more paint and more weight.
Dale Mpls
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric--Corky |
Dale, go back in the archives the past few days.
This has all been "covered". Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric--Corky
>
> The weight is not just in the fabric.
> Thicker fabric means more paint and more weight.
> Dale Mpls
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: project status |
Thanks Dale. Makes sense now when you think about it.
I'll limit my sanding.
George Allen
Harrisburg, PA
GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
(Peitenpol builder)22 ribs down.
----- Original Message ----- >
> Hi George
> The strongest glue joint is a freshly planed wood.
> If you sand the wood you get saw dust in the joint and it's not as
> strong.
> Even if you use air to blow the dust out.
> Dale Mpls.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Aerial |
Hi Dean
I guess I'm a frustrated designer. I have to keep biting my tongue, not to redesign
this plane. Promised myself I would build this first plane as is. But
boy, is the temptation overwhelming sometimes. After looking at a Hatz bi-plane
and several others, I sure can see where sticking a wing on the bottom and
bringing the wing loading down to 5 lbs a square foot would do wonders theoretically
for altitude and load carrying. But I really have to force myself and
keep renewing my pledges and promises not to monkey with this design. It's hard.
Ray
On Fri, 22 February 2002, Dean Pacetti wrote:
>
>
> Ray;
> Have you checked out the Pietenpol Aerial? It is a
> Piet with biplane wings. The plans are sold by St.
> Croix Aircraft and claims a shorter take-off distance
> and lower stall speed.
> Dean Auburndale, Fla.
>
> http://sports.yahoo.com
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | Re: permanent fixed leading edge slats on Pietenpol |
Well this is more of an armchair excercise by an old fart than anything else.
But Gary lives in 6000 ft to 7000 ft altitude airports in Mexico and he says
NAY to grass, or dirt strip takeoffs in the Pietenpol. He's there, done that,
so I take that seriously.
I never even heard of a trailing edge flap before, until I looked at the diagram
on that web page. I start to shudder and think of flutter when I see it.
That it would give you more high altitude landing and takeoff capability is intriguing.
But I expect more power, as you say up to 90 hp and then the idea of a Pietenpol
Aerial, a St. Croix aircraft is also intriguing. The second set of lower
wings, is straight forward without a whole lot of problems. I'm going to see
if they are on the web with that Pietenpol Aerial. Somebody already has done
it.
Again, this is only armchair theoretics.
I met this machinist "Wolf" up in Plantation yesterday evening. Good chin wag,
but at $45 an hour to diddle with cutting and welding my bevy of little metal
parts I need, is a no-go! Wasted trip actually. Though I met the next guy,
another Craig, who definitely was worthwhile meeting. Having sailed his sail
boat from California around through the Panama Canal and spent a few years on
Roatan in the Bay Islands in the 70's era of revolution in Honduras.
Ray
Craig: My address is 2471 NW 152 Terr., Opa Locka, Fl. tel: 305 685 9752
Call me when you install that propeller on that Pietenpol, built by a little
old lady who only drove it to church on Sundays! Whoops! Wrong metaphor, I meant
built by a guy who had a triple by-pass and lost his medical? Ha! Ha!
Love to drive it around the back forty at Indiantown and teach my hands and feet
some rudder, stick coordination in a tail dragger. ( If Leon will permit that?
)
I think there are actually four instruments out there in the rain on my work
bench sitting in the panel there you can have. They all seem to need electrical
connections. There is an RPM meter I know, a glide scope like thingy, the
electrical compass and not sure what else?
---------------------------
On Fri, 22 February 2002, "Jeffrey Wilcox" wrote:
>
>
>
> > Fisherman Caye wrote:
> >
> > > http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-design-wing.html
> > > Here is the theory on leading edge wing slats
> > > You design engineers, want to comment on whether the leading edge slat
> permanently fixed on the Piet wing would work and increase lift? There is
> increased drag apparently, but how bad that might be I could not guess?
> > >
> > > I'd be interested in some construction and design ideas if you
> consider it practical?
> > >
> > > Ray
> >
> > Ray,
> > Keep in mind when you read this that my aeronautical engineering is
> years behind me and clouded by distance.
> > The Pietenpols airfoil is a relatively thin section, is highly
> cambered, and has a slight trailing edge reflex.
> > A leading edge slat is intended to allow an airfoil to reach a higher
> angle of attack before stall than it is ordinarily capable of , which gets a
> higher coefficient of lift. The slat ONLY gets you more lift by letting
> > you get to a higher angle of attack.
> > The camber of the Piet airfoil already achieves a fairly high angle of
> attack. Even if you successfully built a slat, you probably wouldnt want to
> try to land with it because your tail wheel would contact the ground,
> > dropping the nose, while your mains were still way too high. You might
> have to build stronger main gear, adding yet more weight and cost.
> > A trailing edge flap, on the other hand, gets a higher lift
> coefficient at any given angle of attack. This means you can land slower in
> the same attitude as with an un-flapped wing.
> > Since the existing Piet airfoil section is slightly reflexed, a
> trailing edge flap makes a little bit more sense. On the Piet, a trailing
> edge flap could be built the same way the ailerons are and actuated by a
> simple
> > manual device of some kind.
> > The Piets been flying for a lot of years and lots of other people have
> faced the same problems in the past. When I did a quick search in the
> archive, I didnt find anything on flaps. This tells me that either there
> > hasnt been any real effort to develop any or my search skills need work.
> > All this aside, with 145 square feet, the Piet already has plenty of
> wing and plenty of lift and, properly flown, can just about land inside its
> own shadow. All it really fails on is power. Either leading edge slats
> > or trailing edge flaps will take more time and money and add more weight
> and complexity. And, even if you built the absolutely perfect wing, with
> slats, flaps, drooping ailerons and active boundary layer control, you would
> > still only get a few mph off your already slow landing speed.
> > Build the little bird light, go on a reasonable diet (have the
> crawfish and gator steak but go easy on the butter), get the most horsepower
> you can afford and you wont have to pay the locals to hack down too many
> trees
> > on that Maya Mountains ridge.
> >
> > Mike
> Ray -
> I can only second what Mike ahs written. If you have to have more lift with
> the Piet's wing, convert the section from the cabane strut to the aileron
> into flaps. This will require some rethinking on wing spars, especially the
> rear one. It will add weight and complexity.
> The Piet flies extremely well for what it is - it simply needs more power -
> to a point. When you start going over about 90 HP, you are adding fuel
> consumption/weight without appreciable gain (too much drag!). Stick a Cont.
> 85 on it, and have at it. It will climb, with the right prop, like a
> homesick angel, get on and off the ground in just a little space, and be
> light and economical.
> Now I realize that you, like most of us, are on a tight budget, and that a
> C-85 will set you back $2.5 - 3.5 K. BUT! That is a one time expense,
> you'll get many hundreds, if not thousands, or hours of use from it, it will
> be light and dependable, and easy on the fuel. That's the way the Piet is
> designed.. Keep it light, keep it simple. The old rule of airplane
> building: Simplicate and add lightness!
> If you really want a STOL plane, you're going to have to part with many more
> dollars than you already have... My Duce gets on and off in about 300', but
> it is a lot bigger, more complex, and costs a whole lot more than that Piet
> would!
> Off-list, send me your address so I can come visit!
>
> Craig
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
Rollin
Thanks for those FAA links. Will think about a number I guess, when I get an
engine, as they also want an engine number or something. I bookmarked the sites.
In the meantime this week. Sam and I got the ribs varnished and put one wing
side on the bench and slid the ribs on. Had to shave the rear spar a tad of
an 1/8 inch. Sam thinks the wing weighs to much and that is only one of three?
But we only have a 3/4 inch by 4 3/4 inch Douglas Fir Spars.
I started putting on those aluminum things for the rudder. Stripped two heads
with the Philips screwdriver, trying to tighten the lock nuts. Those aluminum
bolts are soft mon! Surely cadium plated bolts would be better?
Other than that, not much done this week. Sam missed a day, due to girlfriend
trouble. He also got engaged, sort of? ( Sam is 73 years ) Spent Friday chinwagging
up in Plantation, looking for a machinist FRIEND! Didn't find one. Drank
some German beer though and solved a good bunch of the world's problems from
a high stool in the machine shop.
Saturday morning, the EAA Chapters favorite week day for meetings and things.
There is supposed to be a pancake breakfast at Opa Locka West Airport for several
chapters, but it is drizzling outside my window at 4:30 a.m. this morning.
Still going, as I am told this is a deserted airport with nothing there, on
the edge, or in the Everglades and a perfect place to drive a Pietenpol around
and teach yourself to fly! Shhhhhhh! Don't tell Leon and his friends! Anyway,
rain or no, I am going over to check the place out. "For the pancake breakfast
of course! Not for anything else, for the official written legalistic
record."
------------------------------------------
On Fri, 22 February 2002, Rollin wrote:
>
> Ray, I don't know if anyone got back to you on your N# question. What I
> did was go to this page to find a number that is available:
>
> http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/DEFIMG.ASP
>
> click on N-Number and there will be a box you can put numbers in to check
> if it is taken.
>
>
> When you find a number you want you can reserve it over the internet ,
> phone or by mail. I think it costs about $10 a year to hold an N#. To do
> it over the internet go to :
>
> http://registry.faa.gov/default.asp
>
> That should get you pretty close. Good luck, Rollin
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Is Replicraft gone? |
Did I understand that Replicraft is out of business? Is there anyone else selling
the metal hdwe needed for the Piet?
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
Ryder
Ha! Ha! Ha!
Sometimes even I don't know when I'm pulling legs, or stretching a tale. I tend
to expand with imagination real events.
I'm not a professional, and truly an ignorant amateur, but so much is common
sense and the other technical stuff is beyond my comprehension. Basically, I
ask myself, will this thing, or gadget last me five years before breaking? If
it is likely too, then that is good enough. I'm not interested in going to bankruptcy
court, simply to build a plane that will outlast my remaining life time.
The different sides to recommendations sometimes confuse and overwhelm me. People
who speak like they are the last professional word on something, confuse
me, when the next time, somebody else equally professional says it is nonsense
and this or that is good enough.
Ray
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
C7814U(at)aol.com,
andyconrad(at)hotmail.com, virgnvs(at)juno.com, rpollero(at)aol.com
| Subject: | this and that ramblings of the subconcious mind on a Rainy |
Saturday.
Went to the FLY IN at West Opa Locka Airport. ( three local EAA chapters there
) This is a fenced in, one runway paved strip that can take jets, in the Everglades,
more or less. Though development seems to be only 3 miles away. With
bulldozing of wetlands. Nothing there but mosquitos at night and alligators
in the day. Few cattle in pastures down the road aways.
Great place to learn to fly, practise driving a Pietenpol, or any other plane
and do touch and goes. Though it had a cross wind today. About six planes there,
low overcast sky, like they have for six months up north in the winter time.
Little drizzle now and then from fast scudding clouds. About 78 degrees
farenheight.
One homebuilt had interesting rudder hinges. Not sure what it was, but it was
strong. Some kind of long hinge but had a 3/16 or 1/4 pin in it. Seemed plenty
strong enough. Since it flys, I guess so?
Where do they get those wheels with brakes on them I wonder? Sort of a brake
cable wire on a spring sort of thing?
Jim Scroggins took off in his Ercoupe. Brought back feelings of nostalgia.
You can land those things almost anywhere under any conditions, and I have done
it too. But the asking price is $13,000 nowadays, a little more, but not much
by only a few hundred dollars than an ultra light engine from the salespeople
in homebuilder type magazines. Gosh back in 1961, I bought the most expensive
one around, at $1800. They could be bought then, for as low as $900. I missed
my get rich calling. I should have invested in airplanes instead of real
estate, or the stock market. Roughly 40 % growth a year. The stock market
crowd need to set up a trading pit for airplanes at that growth rate.
One or two guys out of the 40 or so at the FLY IN, were very strong proponents
of the old Corvair engine. So I am digging out my file sent to me from Kirk
and Laura Huizenga ( the vcr business people???? ) I see Corvair cars for as
little $150. Guess I will take a look at the Corvair stuff again. But weeks
away yet from any necessity. Got re-interested when they said 100 hp. I definitely
would like 90 hp for take offs at 3000 ft strips.
I am not enthusiastic about having to cut my own metal fittings and welding them.
I am looking at around $600 for a band saw and a welder, for which is essentially
a one shot job not taking more than 3 weeks, then it gets junked or
given away as I have no room for all these tools anymore in my life. Seems like
a waste of money. But the trouble is, it costs more for a machine shop to
do the job here in Florida. If I really knew what I wanted from those plans, I
could pay for the return trip down to Livingston, Guatemala, spend a week or
two on the Fiord, the Rio Dulce and fly back with them all and still save money.
( Now there is a thought? ) Oh well! Will explore the hand hacksaw way first.
Nobody in my local EAA chapter has a welder to spare.
Can't drive up north to pick up an engine, or get it taken out of a rusting car
in the winter time. You are not going to catch me above Lake Okeechobie, or
Latitude 32 degrees. Only people who don't know better live in that climate?
(Thats a joke by the way! Ha! Ha! )
Nobody from down here going to Oskosh in the FALL. Last time I was there was
back in the 70's and it was expensive then. But today, you have to be a multi-millionaire.
Would like to go to Sun & Fun in Central Florida, the next biggest
one, but even that is financially out of hand. Lot of the crowd were saying
they would drive up and back in one day. Even camping they say you have
to pay for minimum three days, at exorbitant costs. Guess I will skip it for
another year. Been about 6 or 7 years since the last time I was there. But
Ted with his Pietenpol over in Naples on the West Coast of Florida ( about 150
miles away ) said he was going to fly up in the Pietenpol to Oskosh this year.
He must be rich? Not for the trip, but for the Oskosh entry fees. That West
Coast of Florida crowd get driven a little nuts by sandflies anyway. I could
never understand how so many northerners move there? Must be cause they don't
have sandflies up in the north, so no experience?
They had an ultra light thing, a KOLB on long gear legs. Looked like a heron
feeding. Anway, that sucker took off in 30 feet, I swear. Using a half a VW
engine.
I now have a fine collection of material on how to make Wooden Propellers from
several sorts. The wife is going to kick me out, with no place to store all
this stuff. I got topographical jet charts of all Central and South America.
A growing number of catalogues, old Trade-A-planes, etc. Even bought a new
Pilot Log and filled in my forty or so year old history of flying without a license.
About 73 hours all told in an Ercoupe, bit in a Blanik Trainer and diddling
around in one thing, or another as pilot in command. Ahhhh! Arn't we lucky
to have spent so much time in the undeveloped third world? Where regulations
do not exist, or nobody to enforce them.
Enough rainy Saturday afternoon of teasing the lions in their den! They might
bite back?
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"piet discussion"
| Subject: | put any photos where we all can see them |
If you go to this site, you can sign up and put up to 30 MB of pics up
where everyone can see them. This way guys can answer with a pic to
describe what they did. Just go to the site and put in a name and a
password. It's free!
walt
walt's Pietenpol factory
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | put any photos where we all can see them |
What site, Walt?
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walter
evans
Subject: Pietenpol-List: put any photos where we all can see them
If you go to this site, you can sign up and put up to 30 MB of pics up
where everyone can see them. This way guys can answer with a pic to
describe what they did. Just go to the site and put in a name and a
password. It's free!
walt
walt's Pietenpol factory
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Corvair Power for your Piet |
Ray / Fisherman here some info on the corvair:
First go look around these web sites:
http://www.corvaircraft.com/ <--- good info on which engines to look for
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/FAQ.html
Also, Corvair College 2002 is coming up. Will be held:
Memorial day weekend, 2002, William Wynne's hanger,
Daytona Beach FL.
It's not a "class" per se, but rather a weekend of essentially hanging
out w/ William, watching him work on stuff, working on your own stuff
with his help and/or guidance, helping other people work on their stuff.
Good luck!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Power for your Piet |
Mr. DMOTT,
Not sure of your name as you did not leave it that I could see. I do
believe you have to have bought a copy of Mr. Wynnes Corvair Conversion
Manual to be able to attend his class. If you have, then it is free. Below
is copied from his webpage.
Don't know the particulars these days but the idea was to get all Manual
owners together if they needed a hand or wanted to see things done in his
shop. BTW, do you know if he is going to have anything like this on the West
Coast? Thanks,
Doug Blackburn
----- Original Message -----
From: <Dmott9(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Power for your Piet
>
> Ray / Fisherman here some info on the corvair:
>
> First go look around these web sites:
>
> http://www.corvaircraft.com/ <--- good info on which engines to look
for
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/FAQ.html
>
> Also, Corvair College 2002 is coming up. Will be held:
> Memorial day weekend, 2002, William Wynne's hanger,
> Daytona Beach FL.
>
> It's not a "class" per se, but rather a weekend of essentially hanging
> out w/ William, watching him work on stuff, working on your own stuff
> with his help and/or guidance, helping other people work on their stuff.
>
> Good luck!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Power for your Piet |
In a message dated 2/24/02 9:02:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com writes:
<< Not sure of your name as you did not leave it that I could see. I do
believe you have to have bought a copy of Mr. Wynnes Corvair Conversion
Manual to be able to attend his class. If you have, then it is free. Below
is copied from his webpage.
Don't know the particulars these days but the idea was to get all Manual
owners together if they needed a hand or wanted to see things done in his
shop. BTW, do you know if he is going to have anything like this on the West
Coast? Thanks, >>
The message from Pat Panzera ?sp was that William wasn't going to be able to
make it out to Calif for the West Coast college.
I was not aware that the purchase of the manual was mandatory, but it is
highly recommended. Once I get to that point, I will definitely get the
manual. I am sure that anyone that shows up will get all the questions they
want answered, as well as have the opportunity to buy the manual if they
haven't already.
-dennis the mance
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | couple of photos from Opa Locka West Airport FLYIN |
http://members.tripod.com/~speculation/chapt37page3.html
couple of photos of Chapter 37 and two other chapters FLY IN this Saturday.
Six airplanes and about 50 people, hamburgers, hotdogs, softdrinks, remote airstrip
in the Everglades that can take a jet, but otherwise has nothing there.
Just fenced in by alligators and chainlink.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: put any photos where we all can see them |
jack,
I forgot . when anyone puts a site on this group, it doesn't show up. It's
blocked.
I'll write it out.
photos dot yahoo dot com
(just change the dot to . )
or
photos.yahoo.co_
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: put any photos where we all can see them
>
> What site, Walt?
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walter
> evans
> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 7:12 PM
> To: Fishnet; piet discussion
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: put any photos where we all can see them
>
>
>
> If you go to this site, you can sign up and put up to 30 MB of pics up
> where everyone can see them. This way guys can answer with a pic to
> describe what they did. Just go to the site and put in a name and a
> password. It's free!
> walt
> walt's Pietenpol factory
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: put any photos where we all can see them |
It is easy once you get the hang of it. Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: put any photos where we all can see them
>
> jack,
> I forgot . when anyone puts a site on this group, it doesn't show up.
It's
> blocked.
> I'll write it out.
> photos dot yahoo dot com
> (just change the dot to . )
> or
> photos.yahoo.co_
> walt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: put any photos where we all can see them
>
>
>
> >
> > What site, Walt?
> >
> > Jack
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walter
> > evans
> > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 7:12 PM
> > To: Fishnet; piet discussion
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: put any photos where we all can see them
> >
> >
> >
> > If you go to this site, you can sign up and put up to 30 MB of pics up
> > where everyone can see them. This way guys can answer with a pic to
> > describe what they did. Just go to the site and put in a name and a
> > password. It's free!
> > walt
> > walt's Pietenpol factory
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Just checked my photo space. These 7 pics take up only 2%
of my allotment! Get busy guys.
Clif.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | When did the first airplane fly? |
Now that is an interesting question?
When did the first airplane fly and which human gets the credit for the history
books?
Pietenpol was in 1929, but who flew 8000 years ago?
http://members.tripod.com/~speculation/priestkings.html
http://members.tripod.com/~speculation/Sarasvatiempire.html
not for archive
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Robert the Yankee,
Drooling over a menu like that leads me to believe you might just have some
confederate genes somewhere.
We have eaten at Lamberts in years past. Sikeston is our stop on our
bi-annual trip to Illinois and Indiana. My bride is from Mattoon.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
| Subject: | Is Replicraft gone? |
Replicraft changed their name to EAPS Aviation. Try a search for that.
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Ragan [mailto:lragan(at)hotmail.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Is Replicraft gone?
Did I understand that Replicraft is out of business? Is there
anyone else selling the metal hdwe needed for the Piet?
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
Join the worlds largest e-mail service
with MSN Hotmail. Click
Here
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gdascomb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Is Replicraft gone? |
Yes, they are gone.....gone with my money and the money of a few others.
Either name...same results!
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
| Subject: | Is Replicraft gone? |
I started out on the Replicraft path too, then decided to do my own
metalwork for the most part. It isn't really that hard to do--my metal shop
now includes:
Grizzly Bandsaw
Grinder
Drill Press
Vice w/ rounded jaws
Sledge Hammer
Gas Welding Rig
Various drill bits and files
Bought new, it's probably around $1000 worth of equipment. Cutting and
Bending is basically a no-brainer--just watch the bend radii. I've gotten
help with the welding from various people--after running through about three
tanks of gas, my technique is beginning to be predictable. Fortunately,
most of the weldments on the Piet don't make anything fall off if they fail.
Take your parts to your local EAA chapter when your done--People like
looking at things and some of the will have good advice. Be prepared to do
some things over. Be prepared to accept help on critical parts. But this
is supposed to be an educational process. Make sure you learn something from
it.
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
-----Original Message-----
From: Gdascomb(at)aol.com [mailto:Gdascomb(at)aol.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is Replicraft gone?
Yes, they are gone.....gone with my money and the money of a few others.
Either name...same results!
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Re: the recent photo discussion.
Is everyone aware that matronics has a photo site?
pictures@matronics .com
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wag Aero Phone # |
Pieters,
Can't find my Wag Aero Catalog. Would one of you kind souls please post their
phone # on this net. Thanks
Corky in La wanting to send them some merchandise back that didn't fit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harry21556(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wag Aero Phone # |
wagaero.com
(800) 554-6868
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harry21556(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wag Aero Phone # |
gee ,, my typing is bad today ,,, sorry bout that ,, try (800) 558- 6868
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wag Aero Phone # |
Wag-Aero 1-800-558-6868
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wag Aero Phone #
>
> Pieters,
> Can't find my Wag Aero Catalog. Would one of you kind souls please post
their
> phone # on this net. Thanks
> Corky in La wanting to send them some merchandise back that didn't fit.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Wag Aero Phone # |
Corky,
I discovered a long time ago that nothing from WagAero ever fits and they
are way overpriced. I no longer do business with them. It seems that you
have discovered the same. Others take note.
Chris bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wag Aero Phone #
Pieters,
Can't find my Wag Aero Catalog. Would one of you kind souls please post
their
phone # on this net. Thanks
Corky in La wanting to send them some merchandise back that didn't fit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Mike,
No didn't realize. Just thought if we had a way to easily see each others
project, we could all from the pics. Each is worth 1000 words, you know.
Can we create photo spots that others can easily access?
Fill us in.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: photos
>
> Re: the recent photo discussion.
> Is everyone aware that matronics has a photo site?
>
> pictures@matronics .com
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is Replicraft gone? |
Who all in here lost money to Replicraft and how much? If it is enough it
might be worth going after our money.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Gdascomb(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is Replicraft gone?
>
> Yes, they are gone.....gone with my money and the money of a few others.
> Either name...same results!
> George
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wag Aero Phone # |
Chris,
I bought this J-3 2 part nose piece trying to save myself some work. The
angles and curves of this piece would be fine if I were running the top of
the cowl from the leading edge of the wing. The curve on that fiberglass is
nowhere. And to think I paid $ 195.60 to get it here. They will take it back
with a penalty of 20% restocking fee. Some of those yankees think that
reconstruction is still going on. Oh well it's just money and a hobby.
Corky in La drowning in hobby and debt
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wag Aero Phone # |
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)charter.net> |
I second what Chris wrote. We always called them Wag Terrible. No PMA Cub
pieces I ever bought there were even close to fitting on a Cub. I stopped
doing business with them about 10 years ago. I do miss the old Alexander
Aeroplane Co. (now AS&S East I believe). They were great to deal with before
the merger.
TakeCare,
-john-
>
> Corky,
>
> I discovered a long time ago that nothing from WagAero ever fits and they
> are way overpriced. I no longer do business with them. It seems that you
> have discovered the same. Others take note.
>
> Chris bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | rudder and elevator fittings aluminum from |
Got my rudder finally hung and swinging today.
I had the aluminum fittings from some guy up in Minnesotta, quite famous around
I hear. Forget his name, Keplar or something like that.
Anyway the aluminum pintel and gudgeons I will call them, but cast to the plans,
work fine. But I think the price was around $40 for those parts. If you
wanted all the AN aircraft grade bolts and nuts with them, it ran $70 including
the mail package.
I could not get any of the machine screw bolts to work. They screw fine in those
aircraft nuts, that have a plastic in them. But the machine screws are aluminum,
presumably aircraft AN aluminum? But the head is a Philips cross hatch.
I tried all kinds of Philips screwdrivers, vise grips and every imaginative
way I could to make them work. But failed. The screw heads strip as they
are too soft in aluminum, to take the pressure of bursting through the nylon lock
nut part. Tried threading them first in a vise and everything.
In frustration, I finally went to Home Depot and found stainless steel machine
screws and also lock nuts with nylon in them. Except these worked. Finally
got the rudder hung to satisfaction and washers and locknuts in fine.
The moral of the story, if you are building a Pietenpol Air Camper. Buy the
aluminum castings as on the plans from the guy, for the rudder and elevators,
but forget the machine screw bolts AN aircraft aluminum.
You can build in some redundancy and save money by going to 10 inches of aircraft
aluminum piano hinge and stick three per side. Cheaper, safer and stronger
I would think.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Wag Aero Phone # |
Corky,
Exactly as I said. I bought a nose bowl for a J-3. Two hundred and sumpin
bucks at the time, truck freight, etc.. Slipped it over the front of the
fuselage and it got stuck about two inches short of where it was supposed to
be. Seemed the longerons on my jig welded factory built fuselage were too
wide apart for this to slip over.
And that is a PMA'd price too. Maybe that is why old man wag is wanted by
the us customs folks and is doing "missionary work" in the phillipines while
on the lam.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wag Aero Phone #
Chris,
I bought this J-3 2 part nose piece trying to save myself some work. The
angles and curves of this piece would be fine if I were running the top of
the cowl from the leading edge of the wing. The curve on that fiberglass is
nowhere. And to think I paid $ 195.60 to get it here. They will take it back
with a penalty of 20% restocking fee. Some of those yankees think that
reconstruction is still going on. Oh well it's just money and a hobby.
Corky in La drowning in hobby and debt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Wag Aero Phone # |
Oh, corky, I forgot to tell you about the lower door for the j-3 I bought
from them. And PMA'd too. It seemed that the latch mechanism would go over
center and lock that way when the handle was turned to open the door. Glad
I fiddled with it before covering.
They must be paying off the FAA. We have to put up with all this crap about
using certified stuff and the certified stuff is crap.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wag Aero Phone #
Chris,
I bought this J-3 2 part nose piece trying to save myself some work. The
angles and curves of this piece would be fine if I were running the top of
the cowl from the leading edge of the wing. The curve on that fiberglass is
nowhere. And to think I paid $ 195.60 to get it here. They will take it back
with a penalty of 20% restocking fee. Some of those yankees think that
reconstruction is still going on. Oh well it's just money and a hobby.
Corky in La drowning in hobby and debt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Alexander Aerolane |
John,
Alexander Aeroplane was good.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Hofmann
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wag Aero Phone #
I second what Chris wrote. We always called them Wag Terrible. No PMA Cub
pieces I ever bought there were even close to fitting on a Cub. I stopped
doing business with them about 10 years ago. I do miss the old Alexander
Aeroplane Co. (now AS&S East I believe). They were great to deal with before
the merger.
TakeCare,
-john-
>
> Corky,
>
> I discovered a long time ago that nothing from WagAero ever fits and they
> are way overpriced. I no longer do business with them. It seems that you
> have discovered the same. Others take note.
>
> Chris bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Is Replicraft gone? |
Interesting information I found on the Fly Baby unofficial site.
It is regarding the use for rigid flying wires in place of cables as per the
Fly Baby plans.
http://home1.gte.net/ikvamar/flybaby/hinton.htm
Quoting from the article:
"N96MG's wing bracing wasn't quite stock. The builder used streamlined tie
rods (two per side) instead of the four cable-and-nicopress braces called out
in the plans. There's no question tie rods are stronger and better-looking.
But I think they're more prone to vibration than the ordinary cables. I keep
my Fly Baby in a hangar next to one of the two original Story Specials, a
plane very similar to a Fly Baby, only with a welded-steel fuselage and
tie-rod bracing. "
Could there be a similar problem with the use of the tie-rod type flying
wires on the Piet ?
-dennis the menace
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
I sent a message about the yahoo photo site.
It's in my sent items file but it never turned up
on the list, but the others did.
Anyway, I had some pics I'd taken with one of those
cheapie camera kits and put them up. Here it is-
It appears that you have to know the yahoo ID of
whoever's pics your looking for. I couldn't find any
reference to a general list of addresses. Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: walter evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: photos
Mike,
No didn't realize. Just thought if we had a way to easily see each
others
project, we could all from the pics. Each is worth 1000 words, you
know.
Can we create photo spots that others can easily access?
Fill us in.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
To:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: photos
>
> Re: the recent photo discussion.
> Is everyone aware that matronics has a photo site?
>
> pictures@matronics .com
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
easy- send your pics to the above address.
To view the file go to http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
Mike B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bret & Robin Chilcott <chilcott(at)terraworld.net> |
| Subject: | Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol |
Hi guys!
I am just trying to get my GN-1 project started and learned that the plans
that I have are not actually Pietenpol plans but John Grega's version of a
Piet. I posted a question on the home-built news group and someone
suggested that since I am just starting - that I should abandon the GN-1
and switch to an actual Pietenpol.
(all I have done is the jig made for the wing ribs.)
My goal is to have a VERY simple light airplane when I am done using about
a 65hp aircraft engine.
How do you all feel about this?
I look forward to your expert advice!
Thank you!
Bret Chilcott
Neodesha, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol |
Bret, Build the original Piet.
Chris Bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bret &
Robin Chilcott
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol
Hi guys!
I am just trying to get my GN-1 project started and learned that the plans
that I have are not actually Pietenpol plans but John Grega's version of a
Piet. I posted a question on the home-built news group and someone
suggested that since I am just starting - that I should abandon the GN-1
and switch to an actual Pietenpol.
(all I have done is the jig made for the wing ribs.)
My goal is to have a VERY simple light airplane when I am done using about
a 65hp aircraft engine.
How do you all feel about this?
I look forward to your expert advice!
Thank you!
Bret Chilcott
Neodesha, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol |
Hi Bret
I made the same (mistake, uninformed decision, what have you?) about ten
years ago. Not to worry, John Grega's GN-1 is a very good airplane designed
around what were then readilly available J3 Cub parts and the 65Hp
continental. Built to plans they fly well. Kim Stricker often has his
yellow GN-1 at Brodhead and willingly gives rides. The Piet as Bernard
Pietenpol designed it has some very signifigant historical value and also
flies well. I'm sure you will get many replies to your question. Weight them
all carefully and then go build. I have the 1933 Pietenpol plans and
Grega's. By now my aircraft is not really either, but a blend of both and my
own ideas. It wiil be fun to park it between a Grega and a Piet and watch to
see who notices what!
What ever route you choose build safe and have fun!
John Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bret &
Robin Chilcott
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol
Hi guys!
I am just trying to get my GN-1 project started and learned that the plans
that I have are not actually Pietenpol plans but John Grega's version of a
Piet. I posted a question on the home-built news group and someone
suggested that since I am just starting - that I should abandon the GN-1
and switch to an actual Pietenpol.
(all I have done is the jig made for the wing ribs.)
My goal is to have a VERY simple light airplane when I am done using about
a 65hp aircraft engine.
How do you all feel about this?
I look forward to your expert advice!
Thank you!
Bret Chilcott
Neodesha, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol |
----- Original Message -----
From: Bret & Robin Chilcott
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 8:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol
Hi guys!
I am just trying to get my GN-1 project started and learned that the
plans
that I have are not actually Pietenpol plans but John Grega's version
of a
Piet. I posted a question on the home-built news group and someone
suggested that since I am just starting - that I should abandon the
GN-1
and switch to an actual Pietenpol.
(all I have done is the jig made for the wing ribs.)
My goal is to have a VERY simple light airplane when I am done using
about
a 65hp aircraft engine.
How do you all feel about this?
I look forward to your expert advice!
Thank you!
Bret Chilcott
Neodesha, KS
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I am no expert, but I can say there is nothing wrong with the gn-1. It
is a Piet look alike designed for the 65 hp engine. The Piet must be
modified for a 65 installation,
If I remember the gn-1 differs from the Piet in the airfoil, fittings
& plywood sides. It uses a lot of cub stuff which makes the construction
some what eaiser.
There are gn-1 people in this group. I am sure that they have more
detailed info.
Mike B Piet N 687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is Replicraft gone? |
>
>Interesting information I found on the Fly Baby unofficial site.
>It is regarding the use for rigid flying wires in place of cables as per the
>Fly Baby plans.
>
>http://home1.gte.net/ikvamar/flybaby/hinton.htm
>
>Quoting from the article:
>
>"N96MG's wing bracing wasn't quite stock. The builder used streamlined tie
>rods (two per side) instead of the four cable-and-nicopress braces called out
>in the plans. There's no question tie rods are stronger and better-looking.
>But I think they're more prone to vibration than the ordinary cables. I keep
>my Fly Baby in a hangar next to one of the two original Story Specials, a
>plane very similar to a Fly Baby, only with a welded-steel fuselage and
>tie-rod bracing. "
>
>Could there be a similar problem with the use of the tie-rod type flying
>wires on the Piet ?
>
>-dennis the menace
Dennis,
I have followed this issue since shortly after Ron Wanntaja posted info
about the accident on his web site, and mentioned it a while ago on this
list. While I don't think this is specifically applicable to the Piet,
where you would only substitute flying wires for cables on the tail
feathers, it IS very pertinent with regard to the issue of making
significant changes in a designer's plans. I was real interested in this
particular accident because I was seriously considering building a tandem
Fly Baby before I settled on the Piet. Who knows, I'll probably still get a
set of plans from Pete Bowers one of these days soon before he kicks off.
I would recommend that anyone interested in understanding what happened in
this accident, particularly regarding the 'unintended consequences' of
replacing the material that the designer specified with a material that
SHOULD have been better & stronger, spend a little time perusing Ron's site
& getting all the details of this accident. It will be very educational.
BTW, to the ROOKIE on the site with the GREGA plans - whichever version you
settle on (Piet or Grega), get both sets of plans (in other words, get the
original Piet plans too). It will be well worth it to have them for
comparison.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
(making slow progress in weather-schizophrenic Ohio - 65 degrees today,
snow tonight!)
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hofmann" <jhofmann(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol |
Hi Bret,
I am pretty sure I know you. We had lunch together in Neodesha with Debbie
Meigs. I wrote the original draft and took photos for the 360 Performance
Cruiser about a year ago.
Both airplanes will have their proponents but I personally would go with the
original Piet. When the Grega was designed to utililize Cub parts, those
were very cheap and readily available. This is no longer the case. The plans
from the Pietenpol family are cheap enough to purchase and decide on your
own, but I lean towards the original. Get a copy of Mike Cuy's videotape for
a bit of inspiration.
Hope all is well in your world,
-john-
>
>
> I am just trying to get my GN-1 project started and learned that the
> plans
> that I have are not actually Pietenpol plans but John Grega's version
> of a
> Piet. I posted a question on the home-built news group and someone
> suggested that since I am just starting - that I should abandon the
> GN-1
> and switch to an actual Pietenpol.
>
> (all I have done is the jig made for the wing ribs.)
>
> My goal is to have a VERY simple light airplane when I am done using
> about
> a 65hp aircraft engine.
>
> How do you all feel about this?
>
> I look forward to your expert advice!
>
> Thank you!
>
> Bret Chilcott
> Neodesha, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hofmann" <jhofmann(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alexander Aerolane |
Yeah, Ron Alexander had a nice outfit. They had good prices and friendly,
KNOWLEDGEABLE people to help out. If I had a question they always either
answered right away or got back to me with an answer in due time. I miss
that. I rarely do business with AS&S either. Too much of a Walmart of the
skies attitude. Nothing personal, just not my kind of company.
Corky, I bought PMAd Cub tail surfaces (one rudder, one elevator) from Wag
Terrible. The hinges were so far off, they were closer to fitting my TCraft
than the Cub. I have honestly never met anyone with a good thing to say
about them. I have no idea how they stay in business.
-john-
>
> John,
>
> Alexander Aeroplane was good.
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
> Hofmann
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wag Aero Phone #
>
>
> I second what Chris wrote. We always called them Wag Terrible. No PMA Cub
> pieces I ever bought there were even close to fitting on a Cub. I stopped
> doing business with them about 10 years ago. I do miss the old Alexander
> Aeroplane Co. (now AS&S East I believe). They were great to deal with
before
> the merger.
>
> TakeCare,
> -john-
>
>
> >
> > Corky,
> >
> > I discovered a long time ago that nothing from WagAero ever fits and
they
> > are way overpriced. I no longer do business with them. It seems that
you
> > have discovered the same. Others take note.
> >
> > Chris bobka
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "clif" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: photos
>
> I sent a message about the yahoo photo site.
> It's in my sent items file but it never turned up
> on the list, but the others did.
> Anyway, I had some pics I'd taken with one of those
> cheapie camera kits and put them up. Here it is-
> It appears that you have to know the yahoo ID of
> whoever's pics your looking for. I couldn't find any
> reference to a general list of addresses. Clif
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol |
In a message dated 2/25/02 7:26:30 PM Central Standard Time,
chilcott(at)terraworld.net writes:
<< Hi guys!
I am just trying to get my GN-1 project started and learned that the plans
that I have are not actually Pietenpol plans but John Grega's version of a
Piet. I posted a question on the home-built news group and someone
suggested that since I am just starting - that I should abandon the GN-1
and switch to an actual Pietenpol.
(all I have done is the jig made for the wing ribs.)
My goal is to have a VERY simple light airplane when I am done using about
a 65hp aircraft engine.
How do you all feel about this?
I look forward to your expert advice!
Thank you!
Bret Chilcott
Neodesha, KS >>
Bret, where is Neodesha? Is it close enough to Wichita to drive or fly in?
We are planning a 'Pietenpol Fly-In' this fall. There are quite a few
Pietenpols in the area.
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
http:/ca dot photos dot yahoo dot com / clif2001
Maybe it will work this time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol |
----- Original Message -----
From: "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol
>
> Hi Bret
> I made the same (mistake, uninformed decision, what have you?) about ten
> years ago. Not to worry, John Grega's GN-1 is a very good airplane
designed
> around what were then readilly available J3 Cub parts and the 65Hp
> continental. Built to plans they fly well. Kim Stricker often has his
> yellow GN-1 at Brodhead and willingly gives rides. The Piet as Bernard
> Pietenpol designed it has some very signifigant historical value and also
> flies well. I'm sure you will get many replies to your question. Weight
them
> all carefully and then go build. I have the 1933 Pietenpol plans and
> Grega's. By now my aircraft is not really either, but a blend of both and
my
> own ideas. It wiil be fun to park it between a Grega and a Piet and watch
to
> see who notices what!
> What ever route you choose build safe and have fun!
> John Mc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bret &
> Robin Chilcott
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol
>
>
>
>
> Hi guys!
>
>
> I am just trying to get my GN-1 project started and learned that the plans
> that I have are not actually Pietenpol plans but John Grega's version of a
> Piet. I posted a question on the home-built news group and someone
> suggested that since I am just starting - that I should abandon the GN-1
> and switch to an actual Pietenpol.
>
> (all I have done is the jig made for the wing ribs.)
>
> My goal is to have a VERY simple light airplane when I am done using about
> a 65hp aircraft engine.
>
> How do you all feel about this?
>
> I look forward to your expert advice!
>
> Thank you!
>
> Bret Chilcott
> Neodesha, KS
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bret,
I would vote to go with the original. Bernie Pietenpol was a genius at
designing an airframe in the simplest, most straight foward manner. Try
it, you'll like it, and don't try to "make it better"!
Cheers, John Dilatush NX114D
"Just trying to get smarter than my prop duplicating machine"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol |
In a message dated 2/26/02 3:49:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
dilatush(at)amigo.net writes:
> >
> > Hi Bret
> > I made the same (mistake, uninformed decision, what have you?) about ten
> > years ago. Not to worry, John Grega's GN-1 is a very good airplane
> designed
> > around what were then readilly available J3 Cub parts and the 65Hp
> > continental. Built to plans they fly well. Kim Stricker often has his
> > yellow GN-1 at Brodhead and willingly gives rides. The Piet as Bernard
> > Pietenpol designed it has some very signifigant historical value and also
> > flies well. I'm sure you will get many replies to your question. Weight
> them
> > all carefully and then go build. I have the 1933 Pietenpol plans and
> > Grega's. By now my aircraft is not really either, but a blend of both and
> my
> > own ideas. It wiil be fun to park it between a Grega and a Piet and watch
> to
> > see who notices what!
> > What ever route you choose build safe and have fun!
> > John Mc
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bret &
> > Robin Chilcott
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi guys!
> >
> >
> > I am just trying to get my GN-1 project started and learned that the
> plans
> > that I have are not actually Pietenpol plans but John Grega's version of
> a
> > Piet. I posted a question on the home-built news group and someone
> > suggested that since I am just starting - that I should abandon the GN-1
> > and switch to an actual Pietenpol.
> >
> > (all I have done is the jig made for the wing ribs.)
> >
> > My goal is to have a VERY simple light airplane when I am done using
> about
> > a 65hp aircraft engine.
> >
> > How do you all feel about this?
> >
> > I look forward to your expert advice!
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > Bret Chilcott
> > Neodesha, KS
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Bret,
>
> I would vote to go with the original. Bernie Pietenpol was a genius at
> designing an airframe in the simplest, most straight foward manner. Try
> it, you'll like it, and don't try to "make it better"!
>
> Cheers, John Dilatush NX114D
> "Just trying to get smarter than my prop duplicating machine"
>
Brett,
We have some Piets in Wichita as well as in your area. You could take a look
and compare to the Grega plans. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
Hey everyone.....Is Madison the closest commercial airport to Brodhead?
About how far of a drive is it to Brodhead from the nearest commercial
airport. Do I need to make room reservations in advance or is that not a
problem? TIA Ed G.
" Where am I ?" Charles Lindberg on arrival in Paris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
Thanks for your replies on Wag's phone #. I called yesterday and a very
polite young lady accepted my plight and told me that they MIGHT have to
charge a 20% restocking fee as it has been over 90 days since purchased. It
was all stated on the invoice , which I never read. I usually order these
parts well in advance of need. I'm sorry that the nose piece didn't fit but I
can't eat it either. Point is, this company has agreed to take it back and
were very nice on the phone. About their prices, I think all of these so
called home builders supply outfits ought to be locked up for stealing and
every time I order something I feel like a big chump.
Corky in La feeling like a chump
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
| Subject: | Kansas Fly-in, was Rookies confusion |GN-1 v |
s Pietenpol
Chuck, I'm in Oklahoma City, and I'd drive a day to a Pietenpol fly-in.
Keep us informed, it's a great idea!
( On the way, I'll drop my wife off at one of those Kansas casinos so she
can spend my Piet money.)
Kent Hallsten
Oklahoma City
>Bret, where is Neodesha? Is it close enough to Wichita to drive or fly in?
>We are planning a 'Pietenpol Fly-In' this fall. There are quite a few
>Pietenpols in the area.
>Chuck Gantzer
>Wichita KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "malcolm Zirges" <macz(at)macsells.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol |
Re choosing between original Pietenpol and GN-1 (or any other copy/variation
of the Piet).
It seems to me that the reasons for building a Piet are partly out of
respect for Bernie Pietenpol and his ideas (simplicity, using materials
at-hand, using auto-power, etc.), partly out of intrigue with a design that
has stood the test of 70 years, and maybe partly out of a bit of purists
desire to build something close to "original" sort of like restoring an
antique.
What is the point of trying to come up with a copy of a Pietenpol? A GN-1
is basically a collection of Piper Cub materials and building techniques
made up to look like a Pietenpol--just like a 5151 ultralight is a copy of
the P-51 Mustang.
If you want a Pietenpol, build a Pietenpol. If you just want a low and slow
airplane there are lots of other designs that may be easier, or faster, to
build--but probably not less expensive, and certainly not with the tradition
of the Pietenpol.
Good Luck, Mac in Oregon
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol
>
> In a message dated 2/25/02 7:26:30 PM Central Standard Time,
> chilcott(at)terraworld.net writes:
>
> << Hi guys!
>
>
> I am just trying to get my GN-1 project started and learned that the
plans
> that I have are not actually Pietenpol plans but John Grega's version of
a
> Piet. I posted a question on the home-built news group and someone
> suggested that since I am just starting - that I should abandon the GN-1
> and switch to an actual Pietenpol.
>
> (all I have done is the jig made for the wing ribs.)
>
> My goal is to have a VERY simple light airplane when I am done using
about
> a 65hp aircraft engine.
>
> How do you all feel about this?
>
> I look forward to your expert advice!
>
> Thank you!
>
> Bret Chilcott
> Neodesha, KS >>
>
> Bret, where is Neodesha? Is it close enough to Wichita to drive or fly
in?
> We are planning a 'Pietenpol Fly-In' this fall. There are quite a few
> Pietenpols in the area.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> Wichita KS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"Fishnet"
| Subject: | got my N number today |
What a feeling to open that envelope and see your new N number.
I can't wait.
walt
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | got my N number today |
Yeah, I know what you mean Walt. Mine is NX899JP. Mine is just reserved, I
haven't applied for the actual registration yet.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walter
evans
Subject: Pietenpol-List: got my N number today
What a feeling to open that envelope and see your new N number.
I can't wait.
walt
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol |
Brett,
Here's my two cents. The way I understand it , the GN-1 was a
quicker/easier way to get a plane built, back in the days when J3 Cubs were
very plentiful and cheap. Guess they were laying around most airports in
disrepair. You could get them for a song and cannibalize the parts that
were time consuming to build. Today is a different story. You'd be crazy
to chop up a Cub that could be sold for $15,000-$50,000.
Depends how far along in the project you are. The jig board, you can reuse
the board and all the blocks.
In my opinion,,,build the Aircamper.
walt
NX140DL (new today)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bret & Robin Chilcott" <chilcott(at)terraworld.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol
>
> Hi guys!
>
>
> I am just trying to get my GN-1 project started and learned that the plans
> that I have are not actually Pietenpol plans but John Grega's version of a
> Piet. I posted a question on the home-built news group and someone
> suggested that since I am just starting - that I should abandon the GN-1
> and switch to an actual Pietenpol.
>
> (all I have done is the jig made for the wing ribs.)
>
> My goal is to have a VERY simple light airplane when I am done using about
> a 65hp aircraft engine.
>
> How do you all feel about this?
>
> I look forward to your expert advice!
>
> Thank you!
>
> Bret Chilcott
> Neodesha, KS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Is Replicraft gone? |
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
Subject: Re: Is Replicraft gone?
I was recently reading through the matronics piet list and found the
post regarding Replicraft. I have not yet recieved my membership
status on the list so I can't post yet (hopefully within the next 48
hours)
BUT,
I was taken by Steve at Replicraft A.K.A. EAPS for over $1300. I got
about 30% of the parts I ordered and never heard from him again. That
was back in October. I called the authorities and my credit card
company and handled the issue that way. I also sent an email to John
Grega, since he had Replicraft listed as a "company" to buy metal parts
from John told me he would remove Steve from the list.
If you would, please post my reply up to the list for me and let others
know that ordering from Replicraft is a scam! Fortunately for my my CC
company chrged back the amount so I'm out nothing other than time and
frustration.
If I ever saw Steve Spiedel at a funfly I'd kick his ass. people like
that really get me going!
DJ Vegh
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Wilcox" <craigwilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: got my N number today |
----- Original Message -----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: got my N number today
>
> What a feeling to open that envelope and see your new N number.
> I can't wait.
> walt
> NX140DL
I agree -
Craig
NX96CW
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol |
In a message dated 2/26/02 12:31:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
macz(at)macsells.com writes:
<< What is the point of trying to come up with a copy of a Pietenpol? A GN-1
is basically a collection of Piper Cub materials and building techniques
made up to look like a Pietenpol--just like a 5151 ultralight is a copy of
the P-51 Mustang.
>>
I dont want to read too much into this, but are you espousing that if its not
exactly to BHP plans its not a Piet? If I don't use a Model A engine, put a
tailwheel instead of a leaf spring, is it still a Piet ?
C85 engines, alternative auto engines (EA-81) and so forth.
I think the spirit of Bernie would want us to experiment with common sense
here. I have not looked at either the design. I say lets pick one a start
building !!
-dennis the menace
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
Deciding to reinforce my seat back was a tough decision. I don't
usually think that I can improve on Bernie, but I just had to compare
the three ounces or so to the potential for damage by a rowdy kid in the
front pit or my own clumsiness with parachute on. (Yeah, it's only
three ounces.... ounces to pounds is the usual progression, right!)
But fitting four 5/8" x 1/4" struts across the plywood seat backs was
harder than it looked. How to clamp the two strips I wanted on each
seat back? Having used nails extensively, as per plans, I decided to
continue with them, but how to aim nails at the skinny side of the struts?
I temporarily fitted the reinforcing struts and drew a line on the seat
back under each strut. Marking ten points on each line 1/2 the strut
thickness up, I drilled holes from back to front with a #59 drill,
selected for being a tight fit for the tiny nails I'm using.
I pressed nails into all the holes, glued the struts and put them into
place. Using the head of a broken sledge hammer as a bucking bar behind
the struts, I then nailed the struts into position, clamping them nicely.
The seat backs now feel much more secure and as soon as the seats go in
I'll be ready to sit back and make airplane noises. I'll definitely use
this technique again when the right side ply goes on for good.
Some may remember that I've put on the bottom ply, but left off the
right side ply until all the fuselage "goodies" are in. This seems to
be working out nicely so far. Now it's back to A/S for control tubing
and then build the seats around it. That may sound backwards, but I
think I can drill the rear control bearing holes more easily and fit the
ply seat fronts with more accurate clearance this way.
Larry
P.S. Before using the 8lb sledge head, I cleaned it up on the wire
wheel and labeled it "Piet clamping tool"! Proof positive again that
Home Depot is the Piet builder's best friend ;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol |
Amen Brother Dennis,
No offense to Macz or anyone else and I'll also agree with the comments
on not having to tear up Cubs as well.
But, actually, I've not seen a lot of purism on this list. Considering
that Bernie went to Corvair motors, enclosed cowl, little bitty tires
and steel tube fuselage I think he'd like the GN-1.
I think there is a place for the "pure" Piet, yes. But that's sort of
like auto concourse stuff. Neat and refined, but kind of
non-utilitarian if you get my drift. I'd just rather go flying, myself.
Also, most of the comments I've heard here welcome all GN builders every
bit as much as the "A & straight axle" guys. Never heard any of them
bash the Piet either, except for something about "eccentric strut
loading" but I'm a bit eccentric myself, so I ignored that...
As far as I'm concerned have at it. If it's got a hershy bar wing, goes
slow and has some class, it's probably pretty Piet-like in my book.
Hell if it's got some neat mods, I'll be scratching my head and putting
them to the weight-safety-complexity test.
Build what you like. Just be safe and have fun.
Larry
(No mud-bugs here, but plenty of Chili and Shiner Bock, once again
proving Texas's cultural superiority to the rest of the world.)
Dmott9(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>In a message dated 2/26/02 12:31:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>macz(at)macsells.com writes:
>
><< What is the point of trying to come up with a copy of a Pietenpol? A GN-1
> is basically a collection of Piper Cub materials and building techniques
> made up to look like a Pietenpol--just like a 5151 ultralight is a copy of
> the P-51 Mustang.
> >>
>I dont want to read too much into this, but are you espousing that if its not
>exactly to BHP plans its not a Piet? If I don't use a Model A engine, put a
>tailwheel instead of a leaf spring, is it still a Piet ?
>C85 engines, alternative auto engines (EA-81) and so forth.
>I think the spirit of Bernie would want us to experiment with common sense
>here. I have not looked at either the design. I say lets pick one a start
>building !!
>-dennis the menace
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pietenpol Fly - In at Benton KS |
In a message dated 2/26/02 10:28:41 AM Central Standard Time,
KHallsten(at)governair.com writes:
<< Chuck, I'm in Oklahoma City, and I'd drive a day to a Pietenpol fly-in.
Keep us informed, it's a great idea! >>
It looks like it will be some Saturday / Sunday in late Sept, or early
October, at Benton Airpark - about 10 miles NE of Wichita KS, on Rt. 254. As
soon as we nail down a date, I'm going to let you all know, as well as
getting the info into some of the magazines.
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gerryy(at)airage.com (Gerry Yarrish) |
| Subject: | Pilot training in a Piet? |
Hi all, I have a quick question. I appreciate all the knowledge and
positive attitude I see here on the list. I have never read a negative
comment ever, not so in so many other lesser lists. Anyway. I have been
in a hurry all my life, I'm 45, a busy magazine editor by trade. I have
wanted to build an Aircamper since I was about 16 years old. I have all
the plans and books and magazine articles. You know the type, can't get
enough. I want to build the Piet for the fun of building and the relaxed
local flying the design can offer. I love wood; built my own log
cabin... Anyway, to the question. Can anyone see a reason not to build
the Piet and then use it to earn my PPL? I have 20 hours of lessons in
Piper PA-28 aircraft but lessons came to an end after 9/11 and my work
day is very long. (I know excuses are plentiful.) But I would really
enjoy the building and finishing of such a project and then earn my
ticket at the local grass strip airport (Candlelight) with it here in
New Milford, CT. Thanks for your comments.
Gerry Y.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
Hello,
I just happened to stumble across this list a couple nights ago while doing
a search on Piet's and GN-1's
I have been loking for something like this for some time. I was thrilled to
find it.
I started my GN-1 last October. I've got all the tail feathers done except
for elevators and I just finished my 9th wing rib yesterday. I'm really
enjoying building!
I saw a post a couple days ago about Replicraft Aviation, aka EAPS, I
placed an order from Steve at Replicraft back in October. Short end of the
story is he took my $1300 and sent me very little. 3 months has passed and
any attempt at contacting him has been futile. Be careful when dealing
with this dude. Fortunately my credit card co. charged back the amount and
I didn't lose out on anything. Some other guys weren't so lucky.
I'll have many questions along the way and can't wait to hear all your
input.
You can see more of my project at
www.raptoronline.com
scroll down to the Aircamper banner for tons of pics and written details.
thanks!
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
I want to replace some of my booklets I donated to the National Library Service
of the country of Belize. These were 1970's "HOW TO" series that sold for
about $2.50 each. Do you still have them? There were about 25 manuals for
$2.50 each in the series.
Needed:
1) EAA's Aircraft Handbook "65" Vol. 3 1970
2) EAA Aircraft Design Vol 3 1970
3) Welding How to Series 1970
4) EAA Design Vol 1, File 3
5) EAA Design Vol 2, File 3
6) Modern Aircraft Covering Techniques 1973---------
Ray Auxillou
Current EAA number: 682582
p.s.
I forget what my EAA number was back in the 1970's, maybe you have a record of
it? Would like to know it for curiousity and historical criteria. You were at
Hales Corners back then.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
Ray,
I just got a video from EAA last night, and they tossed in a couple
small catalogs. One has a list of all the booklets and videos, some are
reprints from magazines that the EAA doesn't even have their own original of
now. Some of those titles look familiar and I'll check tonight when I get
home.
Kent
-----Original Message-----
From: Fisherman Caye [mailto:cayecaulker(at)justice.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: How To Booklets
I want to replace some of my booklets I donated to the National Library
Service of the country of Belize. These were 1970's "HOW TO" series that
sold for about $2.50 each. Do you still have them? There were about 25
manuals for $2.50 each in the series.
Needed:
1) EAA's Aircraft Handbook "65" Vol. 3 1970
2) EAA Aircraft Design Vol 3 1970
3) Welding How to Series 1970
4) EAA Design Vol 1, File 3
5) EAA Design Vol 2, File 3
6) Modern Aircraft Covering Techniques 1973---------
Ray Auxillou
Current EAA number: 682582
p.s.
I forget what my EAA number was back in the 1970's, maybe you have a record
of it? Would like to know it for curiousity and historical criteria. You
were at Hales Corners back then.
FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
http://www.FindLaw.com
Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email!
http://mail.Justice.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Cont. cooling eyebrows & Wag Aero Junk |
A third or fourth to never buying anything ever from Wag Aero. What a bunch
of junk for big bucks. Cooling eyebrows for my 65 Cont. were something
like $350 and I made them
by copying Cub ones with dead soft 000 .024" alum. for less than $80 bucks.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Pilot training in a Piet? |
I suppose ther eis no reason you couldn't get some training in with a Piet,
but in the end you'll need to take your checkride with a certified aircraft.
You'll need to demonstrate the specified practical test maneuvers outlined
by the FAA and some of those maneuvers can't be done in a Piet. Namely, the
"Basic Instrument Maneuvers". Most Piets don't have the needed
instrumentation for that.... if they did, I suspect they wouldn't be a
"real" Piet
That being said, if you can find a CFI willing to, if nothing else, get some
dual time on the Piet with you then go for it. It's all knowledge and
experience in the end. You'll just have to go back to the Piper for the
ride.
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Cont. cooling eyebrows & Wag Aero Junk |
Mike you don't still have the patterns you used for your eyebrows, do you?
I'm approaching that stage pretty soon.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D
Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cont. cooling eyebrows & Wag Aero Junk
A third or fourth to never buying anything ever from Wag Aero. What a bunch
of junk for big bucks. Cooling eyebrows for my 65 Cont. were something
like $350 and I made them
by copying Cub ones with dead soft 000 .024" alum. for less than $80 bucks.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
| Subject: | Cont. cooling eyebrows & Wag Aero Junk |
Mike, I would be interested in getting a copy of your eyebrow patterns too,
if you still have them. There might actually be quite a bit of interest.
Gene Hubbard
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Phillips [mailto:jackphillips(at)earthlink.net]
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cont. cooling eyebrows & Wag Aero Junk
Mike you don't still have the patterns you used for your eyebrows, do you?
I'm approaching that stage pretty soon.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D
Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cont. cooling eyebrows & Wag Aero Junk
A third or fourth to never buying anything ever from Wag Aero. What a bunch
of junk for big bucks. Cooling eyebrows for my 65 Cont. were something
like $350 and I made them
by copying Cub ones with dead soft 000 .024" alum. for less than $80 bucks.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard L. Dery" <dickdery(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot training in a Piet? |
DJ Vegh wrote:
>
> I suppose ther eis no reason you couldn't get some training in with a Piet,
> but in the end you'll need to take your checkride with a certified aircraft.
>
> You'll need to demonstrate the specified practical test maneuvers outlined
> by the FAA and some of those maneuvers can't be done in a Piet. Namely, the
> "Basic Instrument Maneuvers". Most Piets don't have the needed
> instrumentation for that.... if they did, I suspect they wouldn't be a
> "real" Piet
I don't want to start an argument, but isn't the instrumentation in a
Piet the same as in a J-3, or Aeronca, or a similarly vintage aircraft?
Can't you train/test in those aircraft anymore?
You're right about the certified aircraft, but I think the FAA views a
Piet's experimental certification as somewhat different than an
experimental certification for a pre-production Piper or Cessna
aircraft. The Piet will never be anything but experimental.
The training could not take place in the Piet until it's final
certification had been received, and all operating area limitations and
restrictions had been removed. This means you could build it, but
someone else would have to do the initial flight testing. Bummer!
In case you're wondering, a CFI would be allowed to charge for any
flight instruction services in a Piet.
And yes, the examiner would have final say as to the acceptability of
the aircraft. The local FSDO office could help you with finding one if
there isn't one nearby.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot training in a Piet? |
Yes..... the instrumentation is the same as in a J-3, Aeronca, etc... and
yes you can train in one... but as for testing, I guess if it comes down to
it... legall you could. But, how would you demonstrate recovery from an
unnusual attitude in instrument conditions?? I suppose you could use your
compass, TC,airspeed and altimeter and just act as if you had a partial
panel also, unless your Piet had lights and was certified for night flying,
you'd have a "day only" restriction on your ticket. ......Some of the
flight schools in the area here in Phx have J-3's and Champs and will let
you train in one but will not let you take the ride in them.
In the end.... i guess it's up to the inspector.
DJ Vegh
>
> I don't want to start an argument, but isn't the instrumentation in a
> Piet the same as in a J-3, or Aeronca, or a similarly vintage aircraft?
>
> Can't you train/test in those aircraft anymore?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol |
If you haven't paying attention, here are a couple of questions that get
this group going...
1. Is a GN-1 a Pietenpol?
2. What's the best engine?
3. What kind of glue is the best?
4. Should I use hardware store hardware?
5. Are crawfish actually a food?
Robert the Yankee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol |
Gooood,
I'll add a few though...
6. How to make a built-up spar?
7. Where is Corky going with all that gas?
8. Why are the latest engines always - more reliable / more powerful
/ cost less ?
9 Will Ray's inspector simply hand him a book of matches?
Larry ;-)
(Flame suit on and securely strapped in.)
Robert Haines wrote:
>
>If you haven't paying attention, here are a couple of questions that get
>this group going...
>
>1. Is a GN-1 a Pietenpol?
>2. What's the best engine?
>3. What kind of glue is the best?
>4. Should I use hardware store hardware?
>5. Are crawfish actually a food?
>
>
>Robert the Yankee
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
Learned a new one today, the hard way as usual.
When storing my airspeed indicator, I slipped on a pair of rubber nipple
type caps to "keep the mud daubers out".
Removing the caps to test installation, I now find a permanent 20mph
reading, so it's off to the shop for this puppy.
I believe that putting on the caps generated enough air pressure to
disturb the mechanism. I guess next time I'll use a couple of chunks of
open cell foam.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot training in a Piet? |
Pah!
Do it first and ask later?
-----------------
On Thu, 28 February 2002, "Richard L. Dery" wrote:
>
>
> DJ Vegh wrote:
> >
> > I suppose ther eis no reason you couldn't get some training in with a Piet,
> > but in the end you'll need to take your checkride with a certified aircraft.
> >
> > You'll need to demonstrate the specified practical test maneuvers outlined
> > by the FAA and some of those maneuvers can't be done in a Piet. Namely, the
> > "Basic Instrument Maneuvers". Most Piets don't have the needed
> > instrumentation for that.... if they did, I suspect they wouldn't be a
> > "real" Piet
>
> I don't want to start an argument, but isn't the instrumentation in a
> Piet the same as in a J-3, or Aeronca, or a similarly vintage aircraft?
>
> Can't you train/test in those aircraft anymore?
>
> You're right about the certified aircraft, but I think the FAA views a
> Piet's experimental certification as somewhat different than an
> experimental certification for a pre-production Piper or Cessna
> aircraft. The Piet will never be anything but experimental.
>
> The training could not take place in the Piet until it's final
> certification had been received, and all operating area limitations and
> restrictions had been removed. This means you could build it, but
> someone else would have to do the initial flight testing. Bummer!
>
> In case you're wondering, a CFI would be allowed to charge for any
> flight instruction services in a Piet.
>
> And yes, the examiner would have final say as to the acceptability of
> the aircraft. The local FSDO office could help you with finding one if
> there isn't one nearby.
>
>
FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol |
On Wed, 27 February 2002, Larry Neal wrote:
>
6. How to make a built-up spar?
> 7. Where is Corky going with all that gas?
> 8. Why are the latest engines always - more reliable / more powerful
> / cost less ?
> 9 Will Ray's inspector simply hand him a book of matches?
( 9 Will Ray's inspector simply hand him a book of matches? ) Will Ray actually
get an Inspector? Will Ray ship his Pietenpol to Belize by Hyde Shipping
in a container uninspected? Will Ray fly to Cuba and gas up and then fly to Cozumel
and gas up and then onward to Belize? Will Ray carry an EPIRB and a lifejacket?
Will Ray live long enough to finish his plane? Will it fly? Will
Ray get a pilots license? Will Ray ever find a way to get his Pietenpol out of
the backyard between the chainlink fence and the mango trees and the Florida
porch? ( Stay tuned ! )
>
HA! HA! HA!
Stay tuned for next month's serial on this issue.
P.S. From Ray! What is an inspector?
> Gooood,
>
> I'll add a few though...
>
> 6. How to make a built-up spar?
> 7. Where is Corky going with all that gas?
> 8. Why are the latest engines always - more reliable / more powerful
> / cost less ?
> 9 Will Ray's inspector simply hand him a book of matches?
>
> Larry ;-)
> (Flame suit on and securely strapped in.)
>
>
> Robert Haines wrote:
>
> >
> >If you haven't paying attention, here are a couple of questions that get
> >this group going...
> >
> >1. Is a GN-1 a Pietenpol?
> >2. What's the best engine?
> >3. What kind of glue is the best?
> >4. Should I use hardware store hardware?
> >5. Are crawfish actually a food?
> >
> >
> >Robert the Yankee
> >
> >
>
>
FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
http://www.FindLaw.com
Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email!
http://mail.Justice.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
Thankyou Kent for the consideration. I suspect they are all out of print.
Ray
-----------
On Wed, 27 February 2002, Kent Hallsten wrote:
>
>
> Ray,
> I just got a video from EAA last night, and they tossed in a couple
> small catalogs. One has a list of all the booklets and videos, some are
> reprints from magazines that the EAA doesn't even have their own original of
> now. Some of those titles look familiar and I'll check tonight when I get
> home.
>
> Kent
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fisherman Caye [mailto:cayecaulker(at)justice.com]
> To: chapters(at)eaa.org
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: How To Booklets
>
>
>
>
> I want to replace some of my booklets I donated to the National Library
> Service of the country of Belize. These were 1970's "HOW TO" series that
> sold for about $2.50 each. Do you still have them? There were about 25
> manuals for $2.50 each in the series.
>
> Needed:
>
> 1) EAA's Aircraft Handbook "65" Vol. 3 1970
> 2) EAA Aircraft Design Vol 3 1970
> 3) Welding How to Series 1970
> 4) EAA Design Vol 1, File 3
> 5) EAA Design Vol 2, File 3
> 6) Modern Aircraft Covering Techniques 1973---------
>
> Ray Auxillou
> Current EAA number: 682582
>
> p.s.
>
> I forget what my EAA number was back in the 1970's, maybe you have a record
> of it? Would like to know it for curiousity and historical criteria. You
> were at Hales Corners back then.
>
>
> FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
> http://www.FindLaw.com
> Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email!
> http://mail.Justice.com
>
>
FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
http://www.FindLaw.com
Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email!
http://mail.Justice.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | Fwd: EAA: Your Inquiry |
------- Start of forwarded message -------
Subject: EAA: Your Inquiry
From: Mark Forss <mforss(at)eaa.org>
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:26:56 -0600
Dear Ray
Thanks for your note.
Regretfully, these books are no longer available. We are looking at the
possibility of scanning in the original copies we have and publishing them
on the web where they will be accessible to members. Keep watching the web
site for more details on this.
If you need specific information from one of the books, our Library would be
able to supply photocopies of same for a fee. you can contact them at
920-426-4848
Regarding your old EAA number... In the process of upgrading to new
technologies over the years, EAA went thru several membership systems
ranging from a simple card file system in the early days to rather primitive
(as compared to today) computer systems. In the conversion process, many
numbers of expired members were not transferred from the old systems and are
not accessible... sorry.
Mark Forss
Aviation Information Specialist
&
EAA SportAir Workshops
Aviation Information Services
EAA Aviation Center, PO Box 3086 Oshkosh, WI 54903
Tel 920-426-6588 Fax 920-426-6560
Visit us at: www.eaa.org
Join the Leader in Recreational Aviation
www.eaa.org/memberbenefits.html
The information provided is a benefit of EAA membership.
To help ensure this service continues please join EAA or
renew your EAA membership by calling 1-800-843-3612.
-----Original Message-----
From: Fisherman Caye [mailto:cayecaulker(at)justice.com]
Subject: How To Booklets
I want to replace some of my booklets I donated to the National Library
Service of the country of Belize. These were 1970's "HOW TO" series that
sold for about $2.50 each. Do you still have them? There were about 25
manuals for $2.50 each in the series.
Needed:
1) EAA's Aircraft Handbook "65" Vol. 3 1970
2) EAA Aircraft Design Vol 3 1970
3) Welding How to Series 1970
4) EAA Design Vol 1, File 3
5) EAA Design Vol 2, File 3
6) Modern Aircraft Covering Techniques 1973---------
Ray Auxillou
Current EAA number: 682582
p.s.
I forget what my EAA number was back in the 1970's, maybe you have a record
of it? Would like to know it for curiousity and historical criteria. You
were at Hales Corners back then.
------- End of forwarded message -------
FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
http://www.FindLaw.com
Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email!
http://mail.Justice.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard L. Dery" <dickdery(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot training in a Piet? |
unless your Piet had lights and was certified for night flying,
> you'd have a "day only" restriction on your ticket.
If you read FAR 61.109(a)(2): " ... 3 hours of night flight training in
a single-engine airplane that includes--
(i) One cross-country flight of over 100 nautical miles total total
distance; and
(ii) 10 takeoffs and landings to a full stop...at an airport.
You are correct that if a Piet has no lights it would be restricted to
daylight ops only. But a pilot could rent a 152 (or whatever), get the
three hours of night training, and meet the requirements of FAR
61.109(a)(2).
Now, once you have the initial training, you have to comply with recent
experience requirements. This is a different subject. This is where you
have to do three takeoffs & landings as described in FAR 61.57(a) and
(b). Notice that it does not require (for night experience anyway) any
kind of compensatory (if that's the right word) dual instruction. In
other words, a properly certificated/endorsed tailwheel pilot can
perform the three night takeoffs and landings solo, as long as he has
completed the requirements in FAR 61.109(a)(2).
I hope this helped.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rookies confusion |GN-1 vs Pietenpol |
In a message dated 2/27/02 10:41:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
llneal2(at)earthlink.net writes:
> I'll add a few though...
>
> 6. How to make a built-up spar?
> 7. Where is Corky going with all that gas?
> 8. Why are the latest engines always - more reliable / more powerful
> / cost less ?
> 9 Will Ray's inspector simply hand him a book of matches?
>
> Larry ;-)
> (Flame suit on and securely strapped in.)
>
>
> Robert Haines wrote:
>
> robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com>
> >
> >If you haven't paying attention, here are a couple of questions that get
> >this group going...
> >
> >1. Is a GN-1 a Pietenpol?
> >2. What's the best engine?
> >3. What kind of glue is the best?
> >4. Should I use hardware store hardware?
> >
Here is some information based on my experiences.
Spars
BHP built the spars for the last two airplanes by scarfing 3/4 square sticks
together and then laminating the long sticks together in a 29 foot
gluing/clamping fixture. I saw the spar in the Corvair aircraft in the
museum at Oshkosh; nice spar. I have considered building spars like this
many times, but it always seems to me to require too many manhours, so I use
solid boards.
GN-1
The GN-1 was designed by John Grega using many Cub parts. It is a heavy
airplane. No two parts will interchange with a Piet to my review of the
plans. It is not a Piet. It is similar to a Piet in stand off appearance
and is a fine airplane, but different.
Engine
Hard to say which is the best engine for the Piet. To me the Ford and the
Corvair are quite good and are much less expensive than an aircraft engine,
which is part of the reason these car engines were modified for use in this
airplane. The engine that best suits the builder is the correct engine.
Glue
T-88 is very well proven and easy to work. There are, however, many good
choices.
Hardware
Aircraft hardware is the best choice.
Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Ramblin's????????????????????????? |
Pieters,
On the subjects of aircraft and pilot restrictions I've a few little
questions where one or some of you might like to help, suggest, advise or
even warn me.
I'm before covering presently and I thought maybe I might go ahead and string
the wires in the wings in case I or the next owner might want to light it up
and do a little moonlighting. Now since the Piet will fall under the new
light plane category will it be restricted to day VFR only? Will it be
restricted to continental US only ( lower 48) ?
If the Piet owner is qualified with a better than Private ticket, which
governs, the pilot or the Piet? These questions have bothered me. Personally
I have failed to get my physical as yet and and hoping for the sport pilot
rule to pass so I may use my drivers' license but if I were ever to convince
this medical quack who refuses me my ticket I do have a ticket to fly away
whereever I like. Don't quite know how to plan to use all this fuel.
Corky in La just looking at a naked Piet and dreaming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ramblin's????????????????????????? |
>
>Pieters,
>On the subjects of aircraft and pilot restrictions I've a few little
>questions where one or some of you might like to help, suggest, advise or
>even warn me.
>I'm before covering presently and I thought maybe I might go ahead and string
>the wires in the wings in case I or the next owner might want to light it up
>and do a little moonlighting. Now since the Piet will fall under the new
>light plane category will it be restricted to day VFR only? Will it be
>restricted to continental US only ( lower 48) ?
>If the Piet owner is qualified with a better than Private ticket, which
>governs, the pilot or the Piet? These questions have bothered me. Personally
>I have failed to get my physical as yet and and hoping for the sport pilot
>rule to pass so I may use my drivers' license but if I were ever to convince
>this medical quack who refuses me my ticket I do have a ticket to fly away
>whereever I like. Don't quite know how to plan to use all this fuel.
>Corky in La just looking at a naked Piet and dreaming
Corky,
If I understand this whole deal, a Piet rigged for legal VFR or night
flight will continue to be a legal VFR/night aircraft. It will also be a
legal 'light plane' as defined by the new Sport Pilot regs, if & when they
become more than an NPRM. (you get a 2 for one deal with the Piet!)
In other words, you could fly it either way - with a current (medical
required) pilot's license or with a Sport Pilot ticket. Go ahead & rig it
with wires, the next owner might want to be able to do night ops.
I'm plannning on rigging mine while I'm building, if for no other reason
than I'm stuck with an electrical system anyway using the Corvair.
BTW, parked your pickup anywhere special lately? :).
Cheers!
Kip Gardner (who says yes, crawfish are food & so is snapping turtle!)
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Pilot training in a Piet? |
Yes indeed. The night part of a private ticket is a "training only" event.
The examiner will review the logbook to see the private requirements per
Part 61 are met. When he notices that the night part of the training is
missing (if he does) then volunteer that you want day only restriction
(means you can fly from an hour before sunrise to an hour after sunset - nav
lights and the anticollision light are needed sunset to sunrise so don't get
confused). When and if you want to remove the day only restriction on your
private certificate, you merely have to do the night training with a CFI and
then take the logbook with the training signed off by the CFI to the Feds
and they will help you through an application and issue you an unrestricted
temporary permit and the permanent certificate will come half a year later
(or so it seems).
Chris Bobka CFI
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
L. Dery
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pilot training in a Piet?
unless your Piet had lights and was certified for night flying,
> you'd have a "day only" restriction on your ticket.
If you read FAR 61.109(a)(2): " ... 3 hours of night flight training in
a single-engine airplane that includes--
(i) One cross-country flight of over 100 nautical miles total total
distance; and
(ii) 10 takeoffs and landings to a full stop...at an airport.
You are correct that if a Piet has no lights it would be restricted to
daylight ops only. But a pilot could rent a 152 (or whatever), get the
three hours of night training, and meet the requirements of FAR
61.109(a)(2).
Now, once you have the initial training, you have to comply with recent
experience requirements. This is a different subject. This is where you
have to do three takeoffs & landings as described in FAR 61.57(a) and
(b). Notice that it does not require (for night experience anyway) any
kind of compensatory (if that's the right word) dual instruction. In
other words, a properly certificated/endorsed tailwheel pilot can
perform the three night takeoffs and landings solo, as long as he has
completed the requirements in FAR 61.109(a)(2).
I hope this helped.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
Fisherman<
In a few more months, I will be having the book sale and many of these
titles, in their updated form will be available for a price better than what
you will pay anywhere else.
Chris Bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fisherman
Caye
Subject: Pietenpol-List: How To Booklets
I want to replace some of my booklets I donated to the National Library
Service of the country of Belize. These were 1970's "HOW TO" series that
sold for about $2.50 each. Do you still have them? There were about 25
manuals for $2.50 each in the series.
Needed:
1) EAA's Aircraft Handbook "65" Vol. 3 1970
2) EAA Aircraft Design Vol 3 1970
3) Welding How to Series 1970
4) EAA Design Vol 1, File 3
5) EAA Design Vol 2, File 3
6) Modern Aircraft Covering Techniques 1973---------
Ray Auxillou
Current EAA number: 682582
p.s.
I forget what my EAA number was back in the 1970's, maybe you have a record
of it? Would like to know it for curiousity and historical criteria. You
were at Hales Corners back then.
FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
http://www.FindLaw.com
Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email!
http://mail.Justice.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ramblin's????????????????????????? |
Corky,
I for one have seen an airplane rigged with wing wires, never used for
night flight and still appreciated.
The ship was used exactly one time for aerobatics with smoke cartridges
on the wingtips triggered by the wiring, to the amazement of hundreds on
the ground. That one weird event was more than worth the few ounces of
wire, it's still a matter of legend and the guys that put the wire in
"just in case" say that they had no idea of how much fun that it would
produce. You never know, I'd say if you've had the thought, go ahead
and wire it. If it's ever used or not, it's still a great selling point.
Regarding the fuel, my thinking is that either you'll get around to
setting some kind of distance record, or at the very least, we'll never
have to worry about our favorite Corkmiester running out of gas.
Hang in there, I think the Sport Pilot deal is going to make it. We
wish you many happy hours in the skies buddy!
Larry
(In Texas, where blackened fish gets the cook fired ;-)
Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>Pieters,
>On the subjects of aircraft and pilot restrictions I've a few little
>questions where one or some of you might like to help, suggest, advise or
>even warn me.
>I'm before covering presently and I thought maybe I might go ahead and string
>the wires in the wings in case I or the next owner might want to light it up
>and do a little moonlighting. Now since the Piet will fall under the new
>light plane category will it be restricted to day VFR only? Will it be
>restricted to continental US only ( lower 48) ?
>If the Piet owner is qualified with a better than Private ticket, which
>governs, the pilot or the Piet? These questions have bothered me. Personally
>I have failed to get my physical as yet and and hoping for the sport pilot
>rule to pass so I may use my drivers' license but if I were ever to convince
>this medical quack who refuses me my ticket I do have a ticket to fly away
>whereever I like. Don't quite know how to plan to use all this fuel.
>Corky in La just looking at a naked Piet and dreaming
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Piet vs Fly Baby |
Ok, folks. I've been looking around at other designs. Latest is the Fly Baby.
The more I look at the design, it looks more like a Piet.
So the question:
WHY does the Fly Baby have a much faster cruise speed, on roughly the same
engine, same frontal profile etc.? Is it the wing?
About that wing, much simpler rib design, roughly same weight.
In my looking around, recommended tire is 8.00 x 4
Is this hard to find and would it work on a Piet ?
-dennis the menace
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Fly - In at Benton KS |
In a message dated 2/27/02 7:49:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,
cayecaulker(at)justice.com writes:
<< > << Chuck, I'm in Oklahoma City, and I'd drive a day to a Pietenpol
fly-in.
> Keep us informed, it's a great idea! >>
>
> It looks like it will be some Saturday / Sunday in late Sept, or early
> October, at Benton Airpark - about 10 miles NE of Wichita KS, on Rt. 254.
As
> soon as we nail down a date, I'm going to let you all know, as well as
> getting the info into some of the magazines. >>
Ray, its somewhere around 36deg 46.60min North Lattitude and
97deg 6.9min WEST Longitude. Near Wichita Kansas
Looks like 1308 mi from Opa Locka Airport.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
I recently looked through the archives searching for info on front cockpit
door mods. I got a few posts, but none definitively gave any dimensions or
detailed ideas. I suspect that the area below the door needs to be
reinforced a bit. Any ideas/opinions?
Does anyone have any supplemental plans for such a contraption?
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | lift struts - aluminum |
during a search of the archives I came across a few posts with some of you
guys talking about the extruded aluminum lift stuts offered by Skytek
Aircraft www.sky-tek.com
To those who have used them in leiu of 4130 streamlined tube.... how did
you terminate the ends? I would assume you could just stick a length of
4130 square tube up into the strut and have it extend out a bit past the
strut, but is there a more streamlined, cleaner looking method??
I sure like the idea of using the aluminum ones... cost, weight, etc..
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ramblin's????????????????????????? |
Kip and Corky,
As I understand it a Piet could be licensed as Ametuer built
Experimental and if the Sport Pilot thing goes it could also be registered
as an Experimental Light Sport Aircraft or something like that. A licensed
Sport Pilot could fly either one. A private pilot could fly either one at
night if it were properly equipped. The best thing in my opinion would be to
register it as Ametuer Built Experimental because you could get the
Repairmans Certificate for the plane. Whereas if it were registered as an
Experimental Light Sport Aircraft you would have to take classes to be able
to work on it, I doubt if there will ever be Pietenpol repair classes. If
you are not actually going to put in lights now just run a piece of rib lace
cord through whatever you plan on running your wires through and later you
can pull the wire in if you decide to put in lights. That way you will not
have to have the weight of wires that you are not using. Kip, I have found
out that Vertex makes a magneto that will work on a Corvair engine. That way
you would not have to have an electrical system if you did not want one. I
do not know how much the magneto weighs but it may be less than an
alternator and battery.
Wayne McIntosh
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kip & Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ramblin's?????????????????????????
>
> >
> >Pieters,
> >On the subjects of aircraft and pilot restrictions I've a few little
> >questions where one or some of you might like to help, suggest, advise or
> >even warn me.
> >I'm before covering presently and I thought maybe I might go ahead and
string
> >the wires in the wings in case I or the next owner might want to light it
up
> >and do a little moonlighting. Now since the Piet will fall under the new
> >light plane category will it be restricted to day VFR only? Will it be
> >restricted to continental US only ( lower 48) ?
> >If the Piet owner is qualified with a better than Private ticket, which
> >governs, the pilot or the Piet? These questions have bothered me.
Personally
> >I have failed to get my physical as yet and and hoping for the sport
pilot
> >rule to pass so I may use my drivers' license but if I were ever to
convince
> >this medical quack who refuses me my ticket I do have a ticket to fly
away
> >whereever I like. Don't quite know how to plan to use all this fuel.
> >Corky in La just looking at a naked Piet and dreaming
>
> Corky,
>
> If I understand this whole deal, a Piet rigged for legal VFR or night
> flight will continue to be a legal VFR/night aircraft. It will also be a
> legal 'light plane' as defined by the new Sport Pilot regs, if & when they
> become more than an NPRM. (you get a 2 for one deal with the Piet!)
>
> In other words, you could fly it either way - with a current (medical
> required) pilot's license or with a Sport Pilot ticket. Go ahead & rig it
> with wires, the next owner might want to be able to do night ops.
>
> I'm plannning on rigging mine while I'm building, if for no other reason
> than I'm stuck with an electrical system anyway using the Corvair.
>
> BTW, parked your pickup anywhere special lately? :).
>
> Cheers!
>
> Kip Gardner (who says yes, crawfish are food & so is snapping turtle!)
>
> 426 Schneider St. SE
> North Canton, OH 44720
> (330) 494-1775
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How To Booklets |
I bought a set of these EAA books from Chris Bobka. They are well worth the
price, and should be part of anyones aviation Library.
Doug B.
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka <bobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: How To Booklets
>
> Fisherman<
>
> In a few more months, I will be having the book sale and many of these
> titles, in their updated form will be available for a price better than
what
> you will pay anywhere else.
>
> Chris Bobka
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fisherman
> Caye
> To: chapters(at)eaa.org
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: How To Booklets
>
>
>
>
> I want to replace some of my booklets I donated to the National Library
> Service of the country of Belize. These were 1970's "HOW TO" series
that
> sold for about $2.50 each. Do you still have them? There were about 25
> manuals for $2.50 each in the series.
>
> Needed:
>
> 1) EAA's Aircraft Handbook "65" Vol. 3 1970
> 2) EAA Aircraft Design Vol 3 1970
> 3) Welding How to Series 1970
> 4) EAA Design Vol 1, File 3
> 5) EAA Design Vol 2, File 3
> 6) Modern Aircraft Covering Techniques 1973---------
>
> Ray Auxillou
> Current EAA number: 682582
>
> p.s.
>
> I forget what my EAA number was back in the 1970's, maybe you have a
record
> of it? Would like to know it for curiousity and historical criteria. You
> were at Hales Corners back then.
>
>
> FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
> http://www.FindLaw.com
> Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email!
> http://mail.Justice.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com> |
DJ,
I am the idiot that sent you a post meant for other eyes. Drop a line to
John Dilatush at mailto:dilatush(at)amigo.net , he has installed the door on
his Piet. He redirected the longerons on that side to carry the forces with
the modification. Check out his pictures on the Matronics picture site.
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/dilatush@amigo.net.02.17.2002/ There is
one there with the door shown. It might even have a "new" sign beside it.
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuse door
>
> I recently looked through the archives searching for info on front cockpit
> door mods. I got a few posts, but none definitively gave any dimensions
or
> detailed ideas. I suspect that the area below the door needs to be
> reinforced a bit. Any ideas/opinions?
>
> Does anyone have any supplemental plans for such a contraption?
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | lift struts - aluminum |
Unless the aluminum strut extrusion has flat parallel surfaces on the inside
of the tube (some of the newer extrusion for the seaplane crowd feature
this), then it is better to use round 4130 stock, either solid bar or
thickwall tubing, for terminating the ends. This latter case would be where
the inside radius of the streamline tubing would be greater than the outside
radius of the 4130 piece so that no deformation of the tube would occur as
you tighten down the bolts. If you deform the streamline, you will
eventually have a crack there. Ideally, the washer under the head of the
bolts and nuts would be flat on one side (for the bolt or nut to bear
against) and the other side of the washer would be concave to match the
radius of the outside of the streamline tube.
Does this make any sense?
Some members in the Cub Club may recall a few years back that someone had an
STC for repair of the lower ends of cub struts using this method. Good
Ventilation.
Chris Bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
Subject: Pietenpol-List: lift struts - aluminum
during a search of the archives I came across a few posts with some of you
guys talking about the extruded aluminum lift stuts offered by Skytek
Aircraft www.sky-tek.com
To those who have used them in leiu of 4130 streamlined tube.... how did
you terminate the ends? I would assume you could just stick a length of
4130 square tube up into the strut and have it extend out a bit past the
strut, but is there a more streamlined, cleaner looking method??
I sure like the idea of using the aluminum ones... cost, weight, etc..
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hallstenokc" <hallstenokc(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How To Booklets |
Ray, Found the catalog. Here is what I can find that might be what you had years
ago. To order call 1-800-843-3612.
Custom Aircraft Design Volumes 1, 2, 3 F-37153 $40.00 (This
is for all 3)
Building Your Own Airplane: Welding/EAA Welding Manual Combo F-36688 $ 23.99
This is a manual and 50 minute video tape. They sell each separately.
Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook F-13510 $14.95
Dope and Fabric F-37139 $12.00 Photocopy of an EAA book no longer in
print
Standard Aircraft Handbook F-37077 $24.95 Illustrated reference guide to
rivets, fasteners, nuts, and other hardware.
Aircraft Fabric Covering F37123 $12.95 Review of material available, tapes,
cord and thread, dopes, tools, etc.
A whole bunch more. Look at the weight and balance book, too, but I didn't
see one for a handbook with "65" in it. Call them and ask for the EAA Aviation
Books & Videos catalog.
Kent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fisherman Caye" <cayecaulker(at)justice.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: How To Booklets
>
>
> Thankyou Kent for the consideration. I suspect they are all out of print.
>
> Ray
> -----------
>
>
> > 1) EAA's Aircraft Handbook "65" Vol. 3 1970
> > 2) EAA Aircraft Design Vol 3 1970
> > 3) Welding How to Series 1970
> > 4) EAA Design Vol 1, File 3
> > 5) EAA Design Vol 2, File 3
> > 6) Modern Aircraft Covering Techniques 1973---------
> >
> > Ray Auxillou
> > Current EAA number: 682582
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hallstenokc" <hallstenokc(at)cox.net> |
Didn't someone by the name of "Price" do a door conversion? I remember posts
about this over the last year or so. If I remember, there may have been some
plans, but search the archives for Price to find out.
Kent
----- Original Message -----
From: "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuse door
>
> DJ,
> I am the idiot that sent you a post meant for other eyes. Drop a line to
> John Dilatush at mailto:dilatush(at)amigo.net , he has installed the door on
> his Piet. He redirected the longerons on that side to carry the forces with
> the modification. Check out his pictures on the Matronics picture site.
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/dilatush@amigo.net.02.17.2002/ There is
> one there with the door shown. It might even have a "new" sign beside it.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: DJ Vegh <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuse door
>
>
> >
> > I recently looked through the archives searching for info on front cockpit
> > door mods. I got a few posts, but none definitively gave any dimensions
> or
> > detailed ideas. I suspect that the area below the door needs to be
> > reinforced a bit. Any ideas/opinions?
> >
> > Does anyone have any supplemental plans for such a contraption?
> >
> > DJ Vegh
> > Mesa, AZ
> > GN-1 Builder
> > www.raptoronline.com
> > N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Phillips" <pphillips(at)kalama.com> |
I believe I have some sketches of a cockpit door with dimensions and some
construction detail. I will send you a copy if you can send your address to
me at my e-mail address.
Phil Phillips
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuse door
> I recently looked through the archives searching for info on front cockpit
> door mods. >
> Does anyone have any supplemental plans for such a contraption?
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: EAA: Your Inquiry |
e-mail slurvey(at)eaa.org. Sue Lurvey is the librarian. She sometimes has
donated copies that are surplus to the EAA library needs.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fisherman Caye" <cayecaulker(at)justice.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: EAA: Your Inquiry
------- Start of forwarded message -------
Subject: EAA: Your Inquiry
From: Mark Forss <mforss(at)eaa.org>
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:26:56 -0600
Dear Ray
Thanks for your note.
Regretfully, these books are no longer available. We are looking at the
possibility of scanning in the original copies we have and publishing them
on the web where they will be accessible to members. Keep watching the web
site for more details on this.
If you need specific information from one of the books, our Library would be
able to supply photocopies of same for a fee. you can contact them at
920-426-4848
Regarding your old EAA number... In the process of upgrading to new
technologies over the years, EAA went thru several membership systems
ranging from a simple card file system in the early days to rather primitive
(as compared to today) computer systems. In the conversion process, many
numbers of expired members were not transferred from the old systems and are
not accessible... sorry.
Mark Forss
Aviation Information Specialist
&
EAA SportAir Workshops
Aviation Information Services
EAA Aviation Center, PO Box 3086 Oshkosh, WI 54903
Tel 920-426-6588 Fax 920-426-6560
Visit us at: www.eaa.org
Join the Leader in Recreational Aviation
www.eaa.org/memberbenefits.html
The information provided is a benefit of EAA membership.
To help ensure this service continues please join EAA or
renew your EAA membership by calling 1-800-843-3612.
-----Original Message-----
From: Fisherman Caye [mailto:cayecaulker(at)justice.com]
Subject: How To Booklets
I want to replace some of my booklets I donated to the National Library
Service of the country of Belize. These were 1970's "HOW TO" series that
sold for about $2.50 each. Do you still have them? There were about 25
manuals for $2.50 each in the series.
Needed:
1) EAA's Aircraft Handbook "65" Vol. 3 1970
2) EAA Aircraft Design Vol 3 1970
3) Welding How to Series 1970
4) EAA Design Vol 1, File 3
5) EAA Design Vol 2, File 3
6) Modern Aircraft Covering Techniques 1973---------
Ray Auxillou
Current EAA number: 682582
p.s.
I forget what my EAA number was back in the 1970's, maybe you have a record
of it? Would like to know it for curiousity and historical criteria. You
were at Hales Corners back then.
------- End of forwarded message -------
FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
http://www.FindLaw.com
Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email!
http://mail.Justice.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | lift struts - aluminum |
the struts from Skytek DO in fact have parrallel flats on the inside spaced
at 1.006 for the front struts and .756 for the rear. so a 1" and .75" could
be used respectively. I was just curious because the GN-1 plans show the
4130 streamlined tubing being tapered to the fitting making a clean looking
end. I guess of you go aluminum you dont get that fancy with it.
DJ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Christian
Bobka
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: lift struts - aluminum
Unless the aluminum strut extrusion has flat parallel surfaces on the inside
of the tube (some of the newer extrusion for the seaplane crowd feature
this), then it is better to use round 4130 stock, either solid bar or
thickwall tubing, for terminating the ends.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard L. Dery" <dickdery(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot training in a Piet? |
Christian Bobka wrote:
>
> Yes indeed. The night part of a private ticket is a "training only" event.
> The examiner will review the logbook to see the private requirements per
> Part 61 are met. When he notices that the night part of the training is
> missing (if he does) then volunteer that you want day only restriction
> (means you can fly from an hour before sunrise to an hour after sunset - nav
> lights and the anticollision light are needed sunset to sunrise so don't get
> confused). When and if you want to remove the day only restriction on your
> private certificate, you merely have to do the night training with a CFI and
> then take the logbook with the training signed off by the CFI to the Feds
> and they will help you through an application and issue you an unrestricted
> temporary permit and the permanent certificate will come half a year later
> (or so it seems).
>
> Here's a heads-up:
At a CFI refresher clinic some years ago we were informed that if an
applicant returns to have the night prohibition removed, teh applicant
will be quizzed about night flying procedures, equipment, etc. It's not
just a swap of one certificate for another.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ramblin's????????????????????????? |
Ahhh Kip!
Let us use a little logic on your medical quack problem. If you ship your Pietenpol
to Belize by cargo ship, pay the duty and get a Belizean Registration
number, I can give you a registration that is Belizean and write the rules ( there
are none and I prefer it that way - whoops! You must have a radio ) You
fly around, have a great vacation and fly your plane back through Mexico. In
the process of which you get Belizean aircraft papers and pilots, Mexican and
in the USA reciprocal USA supplementary documentation on the basis of you existing
documentation.
On Wed, 27 February 2002, Kip & Beth Gardner wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Pieters,
> >On the subjects of aircraft and pilot restrictions I've a few little
> >questions where one or some of you might like to help, suggest, advise or
> >even warn me.
> >I'm before covering presently and I thought maybe I might go ahead and string
> >the wires in the wings in case I or the next owner might want to light it up
> >and do a little moonlighting. Now since the Piet will fall under the new
> >light plane category will it be restricted to day VFR only? Will it be
> >restricted to continental US only ( lower 48) ?
> >If the Piet owner is qualified with a better than Private ticket, which
> >governs, the pilot or the Piet? These questions have bothered me. Personally
> >I have failed to get my physical as yet and and hoping for the sport pilot
> >rule to pass so I may use my drivers' license but if I were ever to convince
> >this medical quack who refuses me my ticket I do have a ticket to fly away
> >whereever I like. Don't quite know how to plan to use all this fuel.
> >Corky in La just looking at a naked Piet and dreaming
>
> Corky,
>
> If I understand this whole deal, a Piet rigged for legal VFR or night
> flight will continue to be a legal VFR/night aircraft. It will also be a
> legal 'light plane' as defined by the new Sport Pilot regs, if & when they
> become more than an NPRM. (you get a 2 for one deal with the Piet!)
>
> In other words, you could fly it either way - with a current (medical
> required) pilot's license or with a Sport Pilot ticket. Go ahead & rig it
> with wires, the next owner might want to be able to do night ops.
>
> I'm plannning on rigging mine while I'm building, if for no other reason
> than I'm stuck with an electrical system anyway using the Corvair.
>
> BTW, parked your pickup anywhere special lately? :).
>
> Cheers!
>
> Kip Gardner (who says yes, crawfish are food & so is snapping turtle!)
>
> 426 Schneider St. SE
> North Canton, OH 44720
> (330) 494-1775
>
>
FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
http://www.FindLaw.com
Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email!
http://mail.Justice.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Piet vs Fly Baby |
-----Original Message-----
Ok, folks. I've been looking around at other designs. Latest is the Fly
Baby.
The more I look at the design, it looks more like a Piet.
So the question:
WHY does the Fly Baby have a much faster cruise speed, on roughly the same
engine, same frontal profile etc.? Is it the wing?
About that wing, much simpler rib design, roughly same weight.
In my looking around, recommended tire is 8.00 x 4
Is this hard to find and would it work on a Piet ?
-dennis the menace
Dennis,
I'll have to look at my brother's set of Fly Baby plans, but I think the
answer to your first question has to do with wing area. As I recall, the
Fly Baby is a little lighter (605 lbs. empty vs. BHP's figure of 610 lbs,
which I for one consider a little optimistic), and more importantly it has
less wing area (120 sq. ft. vs. the Piet's 145 sq. ft.). Less wing area
generally equates to less induced drag.
I think the parasol wing configuration of the Piet contributes quite a bit
of drag. I don't know this for a fact, but it would appear that the
downwash from the centersection interfering with the open cockpits and all
the bracing wires between the fuselage and the centersection would add a lot
of drag. That's probably one reason there haven't been very many parasol
wing airplanes designed. This design type flourished in the late 20's and
early 30's (Pietenpol, Corben Baby Ace, Heath Parasol, Fairchild 22,
Lockheed Air Express, etc.), but there haven't been too many designed since
(with the notable exception of the Pober Pixie - also the prototype Bellanca
Decathlon was a parasol. I saw it at an airshow in 1970. I wonder what
ever happened to it?).
Anyway, the low wing configuration is quite a bit cleaner. Also, the fact
that the Fly Baby carries its control cables internally, rather than
flopping about in the breeze - round cable is incredible in the amount of
drag it produces - helps reduce drag. As does having just one cockpit
rather than the two cockpits of the Pietenpol.
The Fly Baby is a very nice airplane. Well thought out, well designed.
When built to the plans it is very strong. I would build one except that I
like to take people flying and if I'm going to build a single seat airplane,
it is going to have a hell of a lot more aerobatic capability than a Fly
Baby (like, maybe a Pitts Special)
As for the tires, the 8.00 x 4 was the standard J-3 Cub wheel and tire.
They are still readily avalable, with wonderfully weak hydraulic expander
tube drum brakes. You occasionally see them up for auction on eBay.
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
Yep,
Here is the website address:
<http://www.geocities.com/keriannprice/Pietenpol_Plan_Packages.html>
>From: "hallstenokc" <hallstenokc(at)cox.net>
>
>Didn't someone by the name of "Price" do a door conversion? I remember
>posts about this over the last year or so. If I remember, there may have
>been some plans, but search the archives for Price to find out.
>
>Kent
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gdascomb(at)aol.com |
Try This:www.geocities.com/keriannprice/Keri-Anns_Pietenpol.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
I got the message below each time I tried to visit:
****************************************************************************
**************
Sorry, this site is temporarily unavailable!
The web site you are trying to access has exceeded its allocated data
transfer. Visit our help area for more information.
Access to this site will be restored within an hour. Please try again later.
****************************************************************************
***************
I will keep trying. Thanks.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA 665957
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
http://www.mykitplane.com
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Joe Krzes
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 8:29 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuse door
>
>
> Yep,
> Here is the website address:
> <http://www.geocities.com/keriannprice/Pietenpol_Plan_Packages.html>
>
>
> >From: "hallstenokc" <hallstenokc(at)cox.net>
> >
> >Didn't someone by the name of "Price" do a door conversion?
> I remember
> >posts about this over the last year or so. If I remember,
> there may have
> >been some plans, but search the archives for Price to find out.
> >
> >Kent
>
>
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ramblin's????????????????????????? |
Fisherman,
Why the trouble of shiping NX41CC to Belise? Why couldn't I just fly down
(Commercial) get a Bealize physical and license and fly back to the U S ?
Corky in La trying to get around the Oak City regs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | Talk of photo galleries and rudder hinges... |
With all the talk of rudder hinges and photo galleries I decided to kill one
bird with two stones.
Last night I added a simple photo gallery to my site, mykitplane.com. I
could not find an easy way to allow people to post images without having you
create a simple account - sorry. Not to worry, I gather only enough
information to allow other members to contact you (if you choose). I know
that puts some people off (me too, I am deluged with junk mail from the
online sites and once it starts it seems impossible to stop). It also allows
me to keep people from posting images other than aviation types.
Anyhow, once you have an account you can upload images to your Gallery
Album(s). The upload program resizes them to 640x480 if they are larger than
that and also creates a thumbnail. You can add a Title for the image and
also a description (as long as you want or can type (Fisherman, this means
you)) ;).
In the Gallery I created for pictures I took of Tommy Thornhills Boredom
Fighter I uploaded a few rudder pics (more to come soon). Much of the
building design is very similar to the Piet. Anyway, hope this helps some of
you.
I will make this more useful over time, adding features. If you have ideas,
feel free to tell me.
BTW - This is a great list and I enjoy arriving home from work and reading
what people have going on. I am about 1/3 through figuring out what I need
to order in the way of wood and then off we go. Tommy gave me an old spar
from an Aeronca that is about 5" x 1" x 15'. It's beautiful. Will turn into
a Piet tail this weekend I hope.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA 665957
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
http://www.mykitplane.com
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | John Dilatush's airplane |
Folks;
Sorry for the hiccup here, but did I miss something? Are there some photos
of John D's plane on a site somewhere? I'm still catching up on back
digests (only a week behind now!) and may have skipped over something, but I
sure want to see the photos if they're still up.
Packing up to move back to Texas in about 6 weeks...
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, Oregon (soon to be San Antonio, TX)
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | GN-1 pics / log / etc... |
I've finished posting all the images taken from 10/02 to 02/02 while working
on my GN-1. Mostly tail feather images as well as a handful of 3D
renderings.
So far I've not seen too many builders post alot of pics.... ususally a
snapshot here and there. I've been taking shots of every construction
process/detail. Feel free to browse them... no nasty banner ads or pop-ups
either :-)
find it all here...
http://www.imagedv.com/raptoronline/aircamper/log/gallery.htm
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: John Dilatush's airplane |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: John Dilatush's airplane
>
> Folks;
>
> Sorry for the hiccup here, but did I miss something? Are there some
photos
> of John D's plane on a site somewhere? I'm still catching up on back
> digests (only a week behind now!) and may have skipped over something, but
I
> sure want to see the photos if they're still up.
>
> Packing up to move back to Texas in about 6 weeks...
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, Oregon (soon to be San Antonio, TX)
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Oscar, try http://www.matronics.com/photoshare If you have questions, I'll
try to answer them.
John
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Talk of photo galleries and rudder hinges... |
Gary
I'm looking for another FREE site to host web pages. My 25 megs or so is done
at Tripod.com. I get bandwidth problems now, due to a combination of hits
and the photographs. But I have more pages other than my plane building stuff
to put up. So, I am looking for one of those FREEBIES. Had a couple this past
week, but was not up to a few days ago having bandwidth problems. Now I am,
I cannot remember the locations of the FREEBIE web page sites. Anybody know?
Unfortunately, Tripod.com recognizes my computer, so I cannot just sign up for
another account. But it has been an excellent site for me for about 5 years.
On Thu, 28 February 2002, "Gary McNeel, Jr." wrote:
>
>
> With all the talk of rudder hinges and photo galleries I decided to kill one
> bird with two stones.
>
> Last night I added a simple photo gallery to my site, mykitplane.com. I
> could not find an easy way to allow people to post images without having you
> create a simple account - sorry. Not to worry, I gather only enough
> information to allow other members to contact you (if you choose). I know
> that puts some people off (me too, I am deluged with junk mail from the
> online sites and once it starts it seems impossible to stop). It also allows
> me to keep people from posting images other than aviation types.
>
> Anyhow, once you have an account you can upload images to your Gallery
> Album(s). The upload program resizes them to 640x480 if they are larger than
> that and also creates a thumbnail. You can add a Title for the image and
> also a description (as long as you want or can type (Fisherman, this means
> you)) ;).
>
> In the Gallery I created for pictures I took of Tommy Thornhills Boredom
> Fighter I uploaded a few rudder pics (more to come soon). Much of the
> building design is very similar to the Piet. Anyway, hope this helps some of
> you.
>
> I will make this more useful over time, adding features. If you have ideas,
> feel free to tell me.
>
> BTW - This is a great list and I enjoy arriving home from work and reading
> what people have going on. I am about 1/3 through figuring out what I need
> to order in the way of wood and then off we go. Tommy gave me an old spar
> from an Aeronca that is about 5" x 1" x 15'. It's beautiful. Will turn into
> a Piet tail this weekend I hope.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
> MyKitPlane.com
> EAA 665957
> gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
> http://www.mykitplane.com
>
> "What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
>
> Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
> a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
>
>
FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
http://www.FindLaw.com
Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email!
http://mail.Justice.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
mmelgar(at)bellsouth.net
| Subject: | Re: Ramblin's????????????????????????? |
The country does not have any flight instructors. Though one Sam Riggs from
the USA in Oklahoma is in process of re-locating. Not sure when he will be
operational and he gives Agriculture Pilot training.
Belize is not the USA. It is an independent country. They belong by treaty
to the Carribean and share a joint Caribbean Inspector for aircraft, under British
Colonial Aviation Rules. I will not get into the farce this creates. Under
these treaty rules, any plane or license in Belize used to have to be compliant
with British Colonial rules. These always favor England, not the colony,
or ex-colony. The Inspector is not FAA certified, he is British certified.
Big difference in many little bureaucratic ways. For instance, you import an
American Cessna to Belize and there are a few A & P's in Belize from the USA,
you can get one to work on it. But the moment you pay CUSTOMS IMPORT duty, that
Cessna becomes a British Colonial airplane and the mechanic must be British
certified. And they think FAA, A & P's are hogwash. Many years ago, I decided
to take an A & P course in the USA, which was 18 months. It got shot down
by the government and this British Inspector. They said they would never recognize
the license from the USA. So I enquired in England and it took 5 years.
I enquired the difference in time? I got the curriculum, and they spent the
first two years teaching math, latin, Greek, English History and all kinds of
wierd stuff. I was a grown man with a business and didn't have the time to
cater to British nonsense.
They have a lovely thing in Belize, called Cabinet" Minister's discretion".
This means they pass a lot of laws in the legislature, but the only people have
to obey them, are the poor and politically unconnected. Anybody else can just
get a waiver, or exemption from the Minister, in this case Minister of Aviation
whoever it is. Favors, common sense, or bribes are the way to get things
done.
Anyway, at the moment nobody there to license you. For years now there have
been no aviation regulations available to the general public. I have been trying
for years, in relation to adventure aviation orientated tourism niche project
to get a current copy.
But there is no current regulations. They are sort of all political and made up
on the spot by politicians. Depends who you know, if they like you, or if you
pay.
I suspect, if I am not on the political blacklist, which is very possible as
I am politically active, I could get me a license for my Pietenpol and a restricted
instructors license issued and therefore in turn train and certify you.
At the moment, as far as I know, no medical is required, but I could be wrong.
It is going to be a whole new ball game soon in Belize with private and tourist
orientated aviation, if I live long enough. The country needs revenue and
export foreign exchange and am active in trying to get something going. We
could for instance use a bunch of young and old USA farts that have built an airplane,
to come to Belize and retire and teach local youngsters how to do it
and start an industry. Sam Riggs of Riggs Airport in Oklahoma is one, a Dr. Trummer
is another, there are several people in reorganizing sports aviation in
Belize for both aircraft fabrication for export to Central and South America
and to attract adventure private pilots and their planes, or rent same. The country
is on the verge of getting ahead in this field. The advantage is there
are no liability laws there, like in the USA for product building; it is very
much pioneer. So, just possibly we could do something good for a real great
vacation like country. The place is a huge park, with oodles of varied recreational
things to do. Small population.
Ray
On Thu, 28 February 2002, Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Fisherman,
> Why the trouble of shiping NX41CC to Belise? Why couldn't I just fly down
> (Commercial) get a Bealize physical and license and fly back to the U S ?
> Corky in La trying to get around the Oak City regs.
>
>
FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
http://www.FindLaw.com
Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email!
http://mail.Justice.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ramblin's????????????????????????? |
Pieters,
I nominate the Fisherman to be the Minister of Tourism for Belize. I'm
looking for that ole cardboard suitcase to start packing right now.
Corky in La dreaming about sipping mint julips under a palm tree on a
secluded beach in Belize with no beauro interference.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet vs Fly Baby |
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
> "As for the tires, the 8.00 x 4 was the standard J-3 Cub wheel and tire.
> They are still readily avalable, with wonderfully weak hydraulic expander
> tube drum brakes. You occasionally see them up for auction on eBay."
>
>
It is my understanding that the 8.00 X 4 tires are almost impossible to get
and horribly expensive when you do. The expander drum brakes work extremely
well when properly bled, but, again, I understand that parts are virtually
nonexistent. If you can find them, though, these wheels and brakes are
great!
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Ramblin's????????????????????????? |
I went to Belize once to deliver some catapillar engine parts in a Queenair.
We took a three hundred pound mechanic with us from Midland Texas. The
parts were for a pump engine at a shrimp farm. The shrimp need new water
pumped in from the ocean so when a pump goes down, you need the parts fast.
Landed at the main Belize airport. Antiaircraft missles from the British
military unit there tracked us right on down final. We used a customs
broker to get the stuff into the country and then took off for a rural
strip. When we got there, there was a four hundred pound guy, solid muscle,
in bare feet, to unload the stuff. When he came on board, he rummaged
through all the seats we had to scrounge anything new to read. He was bored
out of his scull out there in the middle of nowhere. We had cylinder heads
that must have weighed about 350 lbs apiece and this guy picked them up and
walked right off the plane like they were a carton of eggs. I thought the
cable for the door/airstairs was going to stretch right down to the ground.
Not wasting time because we wanted to make it to mexico by sundown, we
headed back up to the big belize airport and hoped to get fuel. The problem
was that there was only one 100LL fuel truck in the country and it was
broken and it was back in the fuel farm. Since the truck could not come to
us and we could not taxi through the fuel farm, we decided to use a big
aluminum tub and fill it with fuel from the fuel truck sump valve, then
bring it over to the plane and then siphon it into the tanks. We needed a
hundred gallons. It took a long time. There was also a law there that said
that only airport fuel trucks were allowed to fuel airplanes (anti drug
smuggling rule) and here we were right beneath the goons in the control
tower breaking the law. Finally, a guy came over with the JET A truck and
we faked fueling by holding the JET A nozzle by the fuel port, sheilded the
view from the tower with our bodies, and siphoned the 100 gallons.
then we took off for some city just up the coast in Mexico as the sun set.
A neat trip.
Chris Bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fisherman
Caye mmelgar(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ramblin's?????????????????????????
mmelgar(at)bellsouth.net
The country does not have any flight instructors. Though one Sam Riggs
from the USA in Oklahoma is in process of re-locating. Not sure when he
will be operational and he gives Agriculture Pilot training.
Belize is not the USA. It is an independent country. They belong by
treaty to the Carribean and share a joint Caribbean Inspector for aircraft,
under British Colonial Aviation Rules. I will not get into the farce this
creates. Under these treaty rules, any plane or license in Belize used to
have to be compliant with British Colonial rules. These always favor
England, not the colony, or ex-colony. The Inspector is not FAA certified,
he is British certified. Big difference in many little bureaucratic ways.
For instance, you import an American Cessna to Belize and there are a few A
& P's in Belize from the USA, you can get one to work on it. But the moment
you pay CUSTOMS IMPORT duty, that Cessna becomes a British Colonial airplane
and the mechanic must be British certified. And they think FAA, A & P's are
hogwash. Many years ago, I decided to take an A & P course in the USA,
which was 18 months. It got shot down by the government and this British
Inspector. They!
said they would never recognize the license from the USA. So I enquired in
England and it took 5 years. I enquired the difference in time? I got the
curriculum, and they spent the first two years teaching math, latin, Greek,
English History and all kinds of wierd stuff. I was a grown man with a
business and didn't have the time to cater to British nonsense.
They have a lovely thing in Belize, called Cabinet" Minister's
discretion". This means they pass a lot of laws in the legislature, but the
only people have to obey them, are the poor and politically unconnected.
Anybody else can just get a waiver, or exemption from the Minister, in this
case Minister of Aviation whoever it is. Favors, common sense, or bribes
are the way to get things done.
Anyway, at the moment nobody there to license you. For years now there
have been no aviation regulations available to the general public. I have
been trying for years, in relation to adventure aviation orientated tourism
niche project to get a current copy.
But there is no current regulations. They are sort of all political and
made up on the spot by politicians. Depends who you know, if they like you,
or if you pay.
I suspect, if I am not on the political blacklist, which is very possible
as I am politically active, I could get me a license for my Pietenpol and a
restricted instructors license issued and therefore in turn train and
certify you. At the moment, as far as I know, no medical is required, but I
could be wrong. It is going to be a whole new ball game soon in Belize with
private and tourist orientated aviation, if I live long enough. The country
needs revenue and export foreign exchange and am active in trying to get
something going. We could for instance use a bunch of young and old USA
farts that have built an airplane, to come to Belize and retire and teach
local youngsters how to do it and start an industry. Sam Riggs of Riggs
Airport in Oklahoma is one, a Dr. Trummer is another, there are several
people in reorganizing sports aviation in Belize for both aircraft
fabrication for export to Central and South America and to attract adventure
private pilots and their pl!
anes, or rent same. The country is on the verge of getting ahead in this
field. The advantage is there are no liability laws there, like in the USA
for product building; it is very much pioneer. So, just possibly we could
do something good for a real great vacation like country. The place is a
huge park, with oodles of varied recreational things to do. Small
population.
Ray
On Thu, 28 February 2002, Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Fisherman,
> Why the trouble of shiping NX41CC to Belise? Why couldn't I just fly down
> (Commercial) get a Bealize physical and license and fly back to the U S ?
> Corky in La trying to get around the Oak City regs.
>
>
FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
http://www.FindLaw.com
Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email!
http://mail.Justice.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet vs Fly Baby 8.00 x 4 |
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)charter.net> |
Hi All,
Desser Tire has 8.00 x 4 in a couple of different styles ranging from 85.50
for just plain tire tires to a hefty $225 for reproduction Cub smoothies.
Link is www.desser.com
Parts are tough to find, especially the expander tubes themselves. I have
seen servicable ones in the $100 range quite regularly. A lot of money for a
little piece of rubber.
Now trying to find 30 X 5 tires for the Travel Air is another story. I ended
up finding them at a tractor store. Just won't tell them they ain't for a
tractor. But that project is a few years down the road before flying anyway.
-john-
>
>> "As for the tires, the 8.00 x 4 was the standard J-3 Cub wheel and tire.
>> They are still readily avalable, with wonderfully weak hydraulic expander
>> tube drum brakes. You occasionally see them up for auction on eBay."
>>
>>
> It is my understanding that the 8.00 X 4 tires are almost impossible to get
> and horribly expensive when you do. The expander drum brakes work extremely
> well when properly bled, but, again, I understand that parts are virtually
> nonexistent. If you can find them, though, these wheels and brakes are
> great!
>
> Gene
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | GN-1 plywood sides |
It seems that the GN-1 is unnecessarily over built in that it has the
plywood sides of the fuselage going all the way back to the tail.
Wouldn't it be more prudent to build the GN-1 fuselage more Piet style?? Is
that advisable?? I'll be starting the fuse in the next few weeks and am
thinking I could shave a couple pounds by not sheeting it all the way down
to the tail post.... maybe have it end just aft of the rear seat then use
gussets from there back.
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 plywood sides |
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 8:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 plywood sides
It seems that the GN-1 is unnecessarily over built in that it has the
plywood sides of the fuselage going all the way back to the tail.
Wouldn't it be more prudent to build the GN-1 fuselage more Piet
style?? Is
that advisable?? I'll be starting the fuse in the next few weeks and
am
thinking I could shave a couple pounds by not sheeting it all the way
down
to the tail post.... maybe have it end just aft of the rear seat then
use
gussets from there back.
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hey DJ, my advice is to build the airplane as it was designed.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 plywood sides |
In a message dated 2/28/02 5:50:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
> It seems that the GN-1 is unnecessarily over built in that it has the
> plywood sides of the fuselage going all the way back to the tail.
>
> Wouldn't it be more prudent to build the GN-1 fuselage more Piet
> style?? Is
> that advisable?? I'll be starting the fuse in the next few weeks and
> am
> thinking I could shave a couple pounds by not sheeting it all the way
> down
> to the tail post.... maybe have it end just aft of the rear seat then
> use
> gussets from there back.
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Hey DJ, my advice is to build the airplane as it was designed.
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
>
>
DJ,
I agree with Mr. Sam; you would be better off building to the design. I know
the GN-1 is far heavier than the Piet all the way through the structure,
fittings, controls, etc. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 plywood sides |
In a message dated 2/28/02 8:33:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
aircamper(at)imagedv.com writes:
<< Wouldn't it be more prudent to build the GN-1 fuselage more Piet style??
Is
that advisable?? I'll be starting the fuse in the next few weeks and am
thinking I could shave a couple pounds by not sheeting it all the way down
to the tail post.... maybe have it end just aft of the rear seat then use
gussets from there back >>
When in doubt, build it according to the plans.
I think most would agree with me on this note.
BTW, why did you pick the GN-1 over the Pietenpol ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 plywood sides |
>
>In a message dated 2/28/02 5:50:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
>
>
>> It seems that the GN-1 is unnecessarily over built in that it has the
>> plywood sides of the fuselage going all the way back to the tail.
>>
>> Wouldn't it be more prudent to build the GN-1 fuselage more Piet
>> style?? Is
>> that advisable?? I'll be starting the fuse in the next few weeks and
>> am
>> thinking I could shave a couple pounds by not sheeting it all the way
>> down
>> to the tail post.... maybe have it end just aft of the rear seat then
>> use
>> gussets from there back.
>>
>> DJ Vegh
>> Mesa, AZ
>> GN-1 Builder
>> www.raptoronline.com
>> N74DV
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>> Hey DJ, my advice is to build the airplane as it was designed.
>>
>> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>>
>>
>>
>
>DJ,
>
>I agree with Mr. Sam; you would be better off building to the design. I know
>the GN-1 is far heavier than the Piet all the way through the structure,
>fittings, controls, etc. Doug Bryant
OK,
I know very little about the GN-1, but the FlyBaby has sheet ply all the
way back too. It is considered an acceptable modification to cut away some
of the sheet in the aft end. Basically, you make lightening holes in the
ply so there is about 1.5 - 2" of ply left covering all logerons & cross
members.
Take a look through Ron Wantajja's FlyBaby website, somewhere in there are
pics of what I'm talking about.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NormDecou(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | side beams on elevators |
Just a quick question. The front beam on the elevator is main beam, and the
rear beam on the elevator is trailing edge, but I cannot determine from the
plans if the side beams are trailing edge or main beam. I would have the
same question for the rudder. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks Again
Norm (getting ready to cut spruce) Decou
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | GN-1 plywood sides |
I'm building the GN-1 because my dad already had the plans. At the time he
ordered them he was not aware that there were so many differences between it
and the Piet. To be honest I did not know until after I had already ordered
the spruce and metal parts from Replicraft (thats another story)
So... I'm pushing forward with the GN-1, but as I find the differences
between it and the Piet I re-consider and try to see if it's possible to
build a hybrid.
I'm also finding out that most of the members on this list like to take the
opportunity to take a stab at the GN-1 when they can. That's OK I hear
from many GN-1 pilots that they fly great. :-)
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
<< BTW, why did you pick the GN-1 over the Pietenpol ? >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: side beams on elevators |
Norm I think I did as follows( but it was a while ago)
Stabilizer side beams-- leading edge
Elevator outer side beam -- trailing edge, inner side beam( by rudder) -
main beam
Rudder top and bottom beams -- trailing edge
Henry Williams (Borodent) building last few ribs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: side beams on elevators |
Norm,
I used the same size timber for the side beams as the main beam, marked the
edges to make it taper in size from the main beam to the trailing edge and
held it free hand on the belt sander untill I got it the correct shape.
Then I routered it for the corner gussets etc and finished shaping it with
sandpaper by hand after everything was glued together. Seemed to come out
ok. Ditto for the rudder.
Hope this is clear,
Rod Wooller
>From: NormDecou(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: side beams on elevators
>Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:16:12 EST
>
>
>Just a quick question. The front beam on the elevator is main beam, and
>the
>rear beam on the elevator is trailing edge, but I cannot determine from the
>plans if the side beams are trailing edge or main beam. I would have the
>same question for the rudder. Any help would be appreciated.
>Thanks Again
>Norm (getting ready to cut spruce) Decou
>
>
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: side beams on elevators |
Same here except that I used chisels and a 2" long palm plane
since I love the feel of wood under my hands. Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: side beams on elevators
>
> Norm,
>
> I used the same size timber for the side beams as the main beam, marked
the
> edges to make it taper in size from the main beam to the trailing edge and
> held it free hand on the belt sander untill I got it the correct shape.
> Then I routered it for the corner gussets etc and finished shaping it with
> sandpaper by hand after everything was glued together. Seemed to come out
> ok. Ditto for the rudder.
>
> Hope this is clear,
> Rod Wooller
>
>
> >From: NormDecou(at)aol.com
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: side beams on elevators
> >Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:16:12 EST
> >
> >
> >Just a quick question. The front beam on the elevator is main beam, and
> >the
> >rear beam on the elevator is trailing edge, but I cannot determine from
the
> >plans if the side beams are trailing edge or main beam. I would have the
> >same question for the rudder. Any help would be appreciated.
> >Thanks Again
> >Norm (getting ready to cut spruce) Decou
> >
> >
>
>
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | side beams on elevators |
-----Original Message-----
Just a quick question. The front beam on the elevator is main beam, and the
rear beam on the elevator is trailing edge, but I cannot determine from the
plans if the side beams are trailing edge or main beam. I would have the
same question for the rudder. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks Again
Norm (getting ready to cut spruce) Decou
Norm,
I made the side pieces the same size as the leading edge of the stabilizer,
then made cuts as required with a table saw to make the gussets fit flush.
I can send you a picture if you wish.
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | GN-1 plywood sides |
I'm also finding out that most of the members on this list like to take the
opportunity to take a stab at the GN-1 when they can. That's OK I hear
from many GN-1 pilots that they fly great. :-)
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
Don't let 'em worry you DJ. I flew a GN-1 many years ago and was really
impressed by how well it flew. Like everything else, build it light - keep
it simple, build it as close to the plans as possible and you will be
pleased with the result.
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: side beams on elevators |
They taper from main beam dimensions to trailing edge dimensions.
Greg Cardinal
>>> NormDecou(at)aol.com 02/28 9:16 PM >>>
Just a quick question. The front beam on the elevator is main beam, and the
rear beam on the elevator is trailing edge, but I cannot determine from the
plans if the side beams are trailing edge or main beam. I would have the
same question for the rudder. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks Again
Norm (getting ready to cut spruce) Decou
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: side beams on elevators |
The responses you are getting here are interesting. When I asked the same
question about a year and a half ago, the consensus was that the sides were
made of the center beam material, so that is what I did. I know the
drawings suggest that the sides have the same raised edge like the "main"
beam, but I could not figure out how to round over the end pieces without
cutting that raised area completely off, so I started without one. I've
seen some people use the main beam material and just leave the end blunt,
just barely rounding off the corners, which works too, but I went for a
completely rounded end and put small balsa strips between the gussets so
they won't show under the fabric.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: <NormDecou(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: side beams on elevators
>
> Just a quick question. The front beam on the elevator is main beam, and
the
> rear beam on the elevator is trailing edge, but I cannot determine from
the
> plans if the side beams are trailing edge or main beam. I would have the
> same question for the rudder. Any help would be appreciated.
> Thanks Again
> Norm (getting ready to cut spruce) Decou
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | Re: side beams on elevators |
I used a straight forward piece of wood, then backed it with glue and 5/8 nails
to tack it, with a flush mounted thin piece of wood covering the slats and
on top of that, where appropriate put a half round moulding to give it shape on
the edges.
After playing with hardware store brackets, investigating the plans again. The
rear brackets are soft steel, not 4130. But I did change the hardware brackets
and got some steel strap from Home Depot and cut them and drilled holes using
3/4 inch wider strap than the 5/8 called for. That was all they had. But
I wanted a bit wider bit of steel alongside the holes. Plus, I bent the darn
pieces first in a vice with a hammer, before drilling holes. Not a hard job
at all, but time consuming with hand drill and hacksaw. The arguments for vibration,
tensile strength and so forth in favor of 4130 steel on these brackets
seem to be unreasonable. A comment on hurricane strength turbulence gave me
pause, but after diddling around with bits and pieces of steel, I found the argument
unfounded. This stuff is put on farm plows, harrows, wagons and other
devices that see far more vibration and wear and tear. The final decision was
Bernie Pietenpols. He did not call for 4130 on these brackets, nor can I find
any logic to back the arguments. The plans clearly state where 4130 steel is
called for.
On Fri, 01 March 2002, "Gene Rambo" wrote:
>
>
> The responses you are getting here are interesting. When I asked the same
> question about a year and a half ago, the consensus was that the sides were
> made of the center beam material, so that is what I did. I know the
> drawings suggest that the sides have the same raised edge like the "main"
> beam, but I could not figure out how to round over the end pieces without
> cutting that raised area completely off, so I started without one. I've
> seen some people use the main beam material and just leave the end blunt,
> just barely rounding off the corners, which works too, but I went for a
> completely rounded end and put small balsa strips between the gussets so
> they won't show under the fabric.
>
> Gene
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <NormDecou(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: side beams on elevators
>
>
> >
> > Just a quick question. The front beam on the elevator is main beam, and
> the
> > rear beam on the elevator is trailing edge, but I cannot determine from
> the
> > plans if the side beams are trailing edge or main beam. I would have the
> > same question for the rudder. Any help would be appreciated.
> > Thanks Again
> > Norm (getting ready to cut spruce) Decou
> >
> >
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 plywood sides |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 plywood sides
>
>
> I'm also finding out that most of the members on this list like to take
the
> opportunity to take a stab at the GN-1 when they can. That's OK I hear
> from many GN-1 pilots that they fly great. :-)
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
>
> Don't let 'em worry you DJ. I flew a GN-1 many years ago and was really
> impressed by how well it flew. Like everything else, build it light -
keep
> it simple, build it as close to the plans as possible and you will be
> pleased with the result.
>
> Jack
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 plywood sides |
Jack,
My GN-1 was built in 1985 and has provided me and the
previous four owners with hundreds of hours of fun.
I have flown it across Texas with no problems and have
taken folks up for sight seeing trips with plenty of
performance. ( I am six foot and 225 pounds)
So even a fat boy can take people up and enjoy the
world of flying low and slow.
I don't know if there are that many "TRUE & PURE"
Piets out there anyway. Most of what I have read on
this list have made some modifications to fit their
needs. I believe the one common bond is that we
all enjoy the concept of what Bernie started. Who
knows what else he would have done to his original
design.
Keep building your project whatever it is. You will
enjoy a sense of pride and many hours of fun.
Have a good weekend....
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 plywood sides
>
>
> I'm also finding out that most of the members on this list like to take
the
> opportunity to take a stab at the GN-1 when they can. That's OK I hear
> from many GN-1 pilots that they fly great. :-)
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
>
> Don't let 'em worry you DJ. I flew a GN-1 many years ago and was really
> impressed by how well it flew. Like everything else, build it light -
keep
> it simple, build it as close to the plans as possible and you will be
> pleased with the result.
>
> Jack
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
DJ------ Jack P. and Mike King are correct. The GN-1's are fine
airplanes. Just ask Jim Sury of Texas. He's got a nice, light, Cont.
powered GN-1........in fact you have it pictured on your web site. Yellow
and red. I've flown both the GN-1 (Joe Leonard's here in Ohio) and a
couple of Piets. They are all fun. Really fun. Just avoid the
temptation to make it heavy.
Leave your starter, battery, lights, antennas, and triple dual EFIS
systems out of the cockpit and it will be fine. One thing to consider is
that depending on the engine you choose you'll have to make the motor mount
length determine your center of gravity. To me, the main difference in the
Piet and the GN-1 is that the Piet wing is "positionalbe". (is that a
real word ??:) The GN-1 wing is "fixed" fore and aft. You can move a Piet
wing fore and aft and then
rig it that way to make your CG work out for whatever engine choice you
make. Just talk with several GN-1 owners/builders who have your engine
choice and see how much THEY weigh, compare that with your weight....and
this will help you make a motor mount length that is appropriate for your
plane. You don't want to have to add lead ballast in either design to
make your CG work out. ESPECIALLY in hot Arizona where your air is thin
enough, right:)) Welcome to the list. BTW, you have a great web site
and your workmanship looks super. Take a look, Fisherman !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hardaway <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet vs Fly Baby |
Jack Phillips wrote:
> ...and more importantly it has
> less wing area (120 sq. ft. vs. the Piet's 145 sq. ft.). Less wing area
> generally equates to less induced drag.
Actually, a smaller wing has more induced drag if everything else is the same.
Induced drag is the component of drag caused by the production of lift and is
proportional to the coefficiant of lift.
A smaller wing does have less parasitic drag which is the component of drag caused
by
moving a body through the air. Parasitic drag goes up as the body travels faster,
induced drag goes down.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Piet vs Fly Baby |
Absolutely right, Mike. This is what happens when you can type faster than
you can think. Anyway, the upshot is, the smaller wing of the Fly Baby has
less overall drag associated with it. The whole airplane is a cleaner
design (you'd expect that, since it is 30 years newer).
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Hardaway
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet vs Fly Baby
Jack Phillips wrote:
> ...and more importantly it has
> less wing area (120 sq. ft. vs. the Piet's 145 sq. ft.). Less wing area
> generally equates to less induced drag.
Actually, a smaller wing has more induced drag if everything else is the
same.
Induced drag is the component of drag caused by the production of lift and
is
proportional to the coefficiant of lift.
A smaller wing does have less parasitic drag which is the component of drag
caused by
moving a body through the air. Parasitic drag goes up as the body travels
faster,
induced drag goes down.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
thanks for the reply Mike. I'm planning on building it as light as
possible. I do plan on an electrical system, mainly because I want
lights..... it's amazing how much more $$ I have to spend and work I have to
do just by adding electric. But in the end I think it'll be satifying
taking a late summer night cruise out here over the phoenix area.
I plan on using a C85 or 90. Will check out the W&B issues when I'm ready
to hang the motor. Thanks for the tip.
Tonight I build wing rib #10. woohoo!
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: side beams on elevators |
In a message dated 2/28/02 7:18:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,
NormDecou(at)aol.com writes:
> Just a quick question. The front beam on the elevator is main beam, and the
>
> rear beam on the elevator is trailing edge, but I cannot determine from the
>
> plans if the side beams are trailing edge or main beam. I would have the
> same question for the rudder. Any help would be appreciated.
> Thanks Again
> Norm (getting ready to cut
I make them plain because of the thickness dirfferences required on the side
pieces and add fill sticks between the gussets, but this could be done with
trailing edge with some shimming; either way. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 plywood sides |
In a message dated 2/28/02 11:20:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
aircamper(at)imagedv.com writes:
<< Subj: RE: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 plywood sides
I'm building the GN-1 because my dad already had the plans. At the time he
ordered them he was not aware that there were so many differences between it
and the Piet. To be honest I did not know until after I had already ordered
the spruce and metal parts from Replicraft (thats another story)
So... I'm pushing forward with the GN-1, but as I find the differences
between it and the Piet I re-consider and try to see if it's possible to
build a hybrid.
I'm also finding out that most of the members on this list like to take the
opportunity to take a stab at the GN-1 when they can. That's OK I hear
from many GN-1 pilots that they fly great. :-)
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
>>
Fair enough. I don't have anything for or against the GN-1
I just would like to see the facts laid out and let them speak for
themselves. We know the Piet is an original, it has a certain affinity
because of that. Hard to argue with a 70 some year old design.
I don't have a problem with improvements, if they are that.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lou Larsen" <pietlars(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: lift struts - aluminum |
RE: Aluminum Struts:
Skytek is really Carlson Aircraft of East Palestine OH; they market several
kits/components for planes designed by the late Mr. Carlson, who was a
former Piper engineer.
I bought and have installed their aluminum struts for my lift and cabane
struts. I asked Carlson to send me the specs on their struts and the
drawings showing the strut end attachments. As was noted there are two
sizes of struts; I used the larger which has a major axis of 3 1/8" and a
minor axis of 1 1/4" the interior of the strut has flats which snugly fit a
1" square bar. and thats what the drawings showed for the end attachments
I also bought some 1" bar from them and used a 4 1/2" piece for each end
fitting. I rounded the exposed end and drilled for the attaching bolt.
Used this design for both cabane ends and for the top end of the lift
struts. For the lower end made the same end and slotted it to mate with
the attachment lug. Tied the bar to the strut with 3 #10 SS bolts
through the strut and bar stock. The flats are 1/8" thick at the center
where the bolts are and are plenty stout. The wing loading for the
Carlson planes was well over 9 lbs/sq ft so the strength should be adequate
since they use one of each size for their application.
I liked the idea of getting a streamlined metal strut for a reasonable
price; I paid $41.50 for each 10.5' length 2 years ago. Struts are 6061
T-6.
Lou Larsen
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: lift struts - aluminum
>
> during a search of the archives I came across a few posts with some of you
> guys talking about the extruded aluminum lift stuts offered by Skytek
> Aircraft www.sky-tek.com
>
> To those who have used them in leiu of 4130 streamlined tube.... how did
> you terminate the ends? I would assume you could just stick a length of
> 4130 square tube up into the strut and have it extend out a bit past the
> strut, but is there a more streamlined, cleaner looking method??
>
> I sure like the idea of using the aluminum ones... cost, weight, etc..
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
yep! thats whay I say as soon as I made the jump to electric cost goes up
quite a bit. I've already got an altimeter and luckily it's an encoding
altimeter.... no need for an encoder. anything to save weight huh?!
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1's
Keep in mind, if you put in electrics you gotta have a transponder!
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | lift struts - aluminum - Lou |
hey Lou,
thanks for the detailed description on the struts. You wouldnt happen to
have some pictures of the ends would you?? If so can you email them to me??
if not, no worries.
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lou
Larsen
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lift struts - aluminum
RE: Aluminum Struts:
Skytek is really Carlson Aircraft of East Palestine OH; they market several
kits/components for planes designed by the late Mr. Carlson, who was a
former Piper engineer.
I bought and have installed their aluminum struts for my lift and cabane
struts. I asked Carlson to send me the specs on their struts and the
drawings showing the strut end attachments. As was noted there are two
sizes of struts; I used the larger which has a major axis of 3 1/8" and a
minor axis of 1 1/4" the interior of the strut has flats which snugly fit a
1" square bar. and thats what the drawings showed for the end attachments
I also bought some 1" bar from them and used a 4 1/2" piece for each end
fitting. I rounded the exposed end and drilled for the attaching bolt.
Used this design for both cabane ends and for the top end of the lift
struts. For the lower end made the same end and slotted it to mate with
the attachment lug. Tied the bar to the strut with 3 #10 SS bolts
through the strut and bar stock. The flats are 1/8" thick at the center
where the bolts are and are plenty stout. The wing loading for the
Carlson planes was well over 9 lbs/sq ft so the strength should be adequate
since they use one of each size for their application.
I liked the idea of getting a streamlined metal strut for a reasonable
price; I paid $41.50 for each 10.5' length 2 years ago. Struts are 6061
T-6.
Lou Larsen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: lift struts - aluminum - Lou |
DJ,
Take a look at
http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html
and also at
http://home.flash.net/~lamb01/news.htm
and scroll down to the 4/15/2000 for an alternative idea.
Don't let some of the "superior" Piet attitudes dilute your enjoyment of
your project. The GN-1 is a good design and has many useful ideas for the Piet
builder. I've purchased both sets of plans and have found many good ideas in
both.
~Cheers,
~Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Don't congratulate your self too soon. If your encoder quits in your
encoding altimeter you will...
1. Lose you altimeter and ability to fly until you have your instrument
repaired and re-installed.
2. Bigger bill to repair
3. Frequent repairs as the encoding altimeter is not as reliable nor rugged
as the separate encoder and altimeter.
4. The encoder altimeter IS heavier than a plain altimeter.
The separate encoder generally doesn't take any panel space as it can be
mounted out of the way.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
We also support Aeroncas
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: GN-1's
yep! thats whay I say as soon as I made the jump to electric cost goes up
quite a bit. I've already got an altimeter and luckily it's an encoding
altimeter.... no need for an encoder. anything to save weight huh?!
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1's
Keep in mind, if you put in electrics you gotta have a transponder!
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bret & Robin Chilcott <chilcott(at)terraworld.net> |
| Subject: | What are sources for Ford Model A engines |
Hi guys.
What are good sources for Model A Ford engines?
Is there anyone making replica's?
Thank you for your help!
Bret Chilcott
Neodesha, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
good points. although I'm not sure about the ruggedness/reliablility
issue. The encoding altimeter we had in the Cessna 441 worked for over 15
years and at least 4000 hrs. and never a failure.
yeah it's heavier than a non-encoding altimeter but only by about 3 oz.
there's still a net loss in weight over using a separate encoder albeit a
very very small amount... but just enough for me to eat an extra serving
of french fires before flying.
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cy Galley
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1's
Don't congratulate your self too soon. If your encoder quits in your
encoding altimeter you will...
1. Lose you altimeter and ability to fly until you have your instrument
repaired and re-installed.
2. Bigger bill to repair
3. Frequent repairs as the encoding altimeter is not as reliable nor rugged
as the separate encoder and altimeter.
4. The encoder altimeter IS heavier than a plain altimeter.
The separate encoder generally doesn't take any panel space as it can be
mounted out of the way.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
We also support Aeroncas
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What are sources for Ford Model A engines |
In a message dated 3/1/02 6:00:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
chilcott(at)terraworld.net writes:
> Hi guys.
>
>
> What are good sources for Model A Ford engines?
>
> Is there anyone making replica's?
>
> Thank you for your help!
>
> Bret Chilcott
> Neodesha, KS
>
>
>
Bret,
I am in Wichita and use model 'A' s on my planes. I find them by 'word of
mouth'. They are easy to find around here. I have recently acquired the
equipment ability to pour and align bore the babbitt. There are two other
good rebuilders here also. The model A is pretty impressive to actually fly
behind. Hope you pay a visit to the planes here in Wichita and to our fly-in
at Benton in the fall. The planes are at Benton. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: What are sources for Ford Model A engines |
Hi Bret & Robin
Check the internet for the National Model A clubs and get the info on
chapters near where you live...there are plenty of engines out there. You
might also want to check with Snyder's, Bratton's and other antique Ford
parts houses and get in touch with the guys they use to rebuild Model A
engines. You'll find them all in the 'A' section of Hemmings Motor News at
your local bookstore or library. Sorry, I'm not near my address information
at this time to give it to you. Hope to see you join the ranks of the 'A'
lovers. Don & Clara Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com> |
Hey Gents,
I was perusing the aviation section this evening on E-Bay, and came
across this carburetor. Don't know this stuff like you guys, but it
might be worth looking into!
Stromberg NA R9 B 19 Carb 985 Pratt & Whitney
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1709072503
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
ArrowBear Lake Ca.
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What are sources for Ford Model A engines |
In a message dated 3/1/02 9:33:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, Doug413(at)aol.com
writes:
<< I am in Wichita and use model 'A' s on my planes. I find them by 'word of
mouth'. They are easy to find around here. I have recently acquired the
equipment ability to pour and align bore the babbitt. There are two other
good rebuilders here also. The model A is pretty impressive to actually fly
behind. Hope you pay a visit to the planes here in Wichita and to our
fly-in
at Benton in the fall. The planes are at Benton. Doug Bryant
>>
Early on in my search, someone told me that a Model "B" could be used. These
were used in alot of the older combines, can be found readily througout the
midwest in farm machinery junk yards. How true is this ? and are they
actually a usable engine to start with ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What are sources for Ford Model A engines |
I have an ex-combine engine for my Piet project -- found it thru a guy in
Hutchinson, KS -- although not a "B", it has some good traits being the
"last of the breed". They were late '32 production with better webbing &
support around the flywheel end bearing (late blocks have a oval mounting
pad with(2) threaded holes above the timing gear -- on the "car front end"
of the block) -- they have exhaust seat inserts -- also look for a "diamond"
shaped casting mark on the valve cover side of the block, right next to the
timing gear cover. Some of them weren't serial numbered -- but there are
also a bunch that had a number put on them when the were put in cars! I got
all this good info from walking around at Brodhead on a 1 hour "lesson" with
Terry Oberst (the St. Louis Model "A" guru!) -- he was at the '98
rodhead -- we only looked at about a dozen different engines in Piets &
Model "A" cars! ;-)
As for the machinery salvage route, I would think all the combines are
pretty well gone -- the guy I got my engine from said that a lot were picked
up by the car restorers over the years.
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: <Dmott9(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: What are sources for Ford Model A engines
> Early on in my search, someone told me that a Model "B" could be used.
These
> were used in alot of the older combines, can be found readily througout
the
> midwest in farm machinery junk yards. How true is this ? and are they
> actually a usable engine to start with ?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What are sources for Ford Model A engines |
In a message dated 3/1/02 8:14:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, Dmott9(at)aol.com
writes:
> << I am in Wichita and use model 'A' s on my planes. I find them by 'word
> of
> mouth'. They are easy to find around here. I have recently acquired the
> equipment ability to pour and align bore the babbitt. There are two other
> good rebuilders here also. The model A is pretty impressive to actually fly
>
> behind. Hope you pay a visit to the planes here in Wichita and to our
> fly-in
> at Benton in the fall. The planes are at Benton. Doug Bryant
> >>
>
> Early on in my search, someone told me that a Model "B" could be used.
> These
> were used in alot of the older combines, can be found readily througout the
>
> midwest in farm machinery junk yards. How true is this ? and are they
> actually a usable engine to start with ?
>
>
>
Yes, the combine engine is a model 'A' engine with an add on governor and
some other things for stationary use. I have one on my first Piet. I am
told the combine engines saw a more harsh working environment than the cars,
so the engines can be caked be full of mud. Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | Many thanks to Dale Johnson |
Many thanks to Dale Johnson, who took the time to copy the book by Al Schubert
on "How I Make a Wood Propeller" and send it to me.
I just finished. It took me three days and probably 10 or 12 hours of reading.
But like any good who dunnit, or exciting novel, this thing had me engrossed.
It got better about half way through, as I started to understand the technical
references. Still not clear on it all. But great start.
Now I can talk to Craig Wilcox and understand his previous mumbo jumbo on pitch,
camber and diameter for the new propeller he wanted for that Pietenpol up
in Indiantown, Florida. I sure like Al, the writer, and identified with him
completely. Man after my own heart. Wonder if he is still alive?
Having spent my formative teen years on a farm across from Michigan in Ontario,
Canada, I certainly identified with all his trials and travails and the fun
he had with them. Unlike Al, I wised up around age 19 years and opted to move
to a warmer climate. Someplace with sunshine and temperatures in the 70's and
80's, white sand beaches, clear warm emerald green and blue waters, coconut
trees, friendly willing dusky maidens and a life where the motto was " NEVER
DO TODAY, WHAT YOU CAN PUT OFF TILL TOMORROW! all year round." I had had enough
of that grey skies and cold weather with just 3 or 4 months (July, August,
September & October ) decent outdoor living.
But still, the working on his wood propellers in the Farm Drive Barn up in dreary
Minnesota ( most of the year- Ha! Ha! Just a little dig guys ), the jury
rigging, farm machinery, Model A and Model T Fords and all that good stuff, brought
back teenage memories. It was a very good book from memory lane, not sure
about the technical part on carving your own wood propeller, but I think I
get the picture now in generalistic terms. The principals seem to be; make
the diameter bigger, so you can cut it off, until it works at the most optimum
and can adjust the trailing edge to change the pitch likewise. Sounds like good
basic principles. Cut and fit and adjust trial method on the engine of your
choice.
He has both the Model A Pietenpol propeller in there and the Corvair propeller
for the Air Camper and was friends with Bernie Pietenpol. The two he cut for
the Corvair Pietenpol were 63 inches diameter and a pitch of 35 inches. With
most of the pitch in the last outer three stations of the propeller. This
was the latter better one, of the two trials. Climbed that Pietenpol at 1000
feet per minute, had a speed for the Air Camper up to 100 mph turning at 3500
rpm. This was the first propeller, so he went back and made another with more
pitch. The second propeller made a bit of noise, or snarl at full throttle, but
was quiet at cruise of 3100 rpm.
If I go Corvair, I guess I will go for the second one for propeller size, the
figures printed above.
Highly recommend the book. Good reading indeed.
Ray Auxillou
FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
http://www.FindLaw.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NormDecou(at)aol.com |
Thanks for all the excellent methods. I will use the main beam stock, taper
it to the tail beam size, and router the gusset step into it.
Thanks again.
Norm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | What are sources for Ford Model A engines |
Early on in my search, someone told me that a Model "B" could be used. These
were used in alot of the older combines, can be found readily througout the
midwest in farm machinery junk yards. How true is this ? and are they
actually a usable engine to start with ?
Hi Bet and Robin
The B engine is externally very similar to the A but it has a heavier
crankshaft. Some of the later engines used in '33 and '34 Ford commercial
vehicles as options had counter weighted crank shafts.
The B has pressure fed mains. The '32 B engine has enough of a crank
increase over the A that it can be safely drilled to provide full pressure
oiling to the rod bearings. Bernard Pietenpols 1933 plans show how to
pressurize A main bearings but the rods still require a modified oil pan for
splash lube. The specs on the B state that it produces 50 HP in standard
form but I suspect that they just ran it faster. Other notice able
differences are the external fuel pump drive, no oil drain tube on side
cover and a different water pump easily recognized by its three bolt flange.
I choose the B because the drilled crank option allows me to make a lighter
oil pan and then the wieght difference is minor. The rod and main dimensions
on a B are very close to a Continental 0-200.
As far as useable goes, How much work are you willing to do? Any engine that
you get will need a major overhaul unless it came from a certified aircraft
with logs and service records and even then I may not trust it.
The Funk Brothers Aircraft company used a B engine modified to run inverted
and had it certified.
So the B, alBiet ;-) modified, is the only certfied automotive engine I know
of.
I have really enjoyed building my B engine and having flown behind an A I'm
looking forward to Flying it.
Hope this helps,
John Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gdascomb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Western Aircraft Supply Ltd. in BC. |
Anybody know the status of this company? I get no reply on e-mail or the
telephone.
George in Texas
Ribs are done...lots of sanding to do !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What are sources for Ford Model A engines |
Brett,
Had read an article in a mag early on that stated that "Odds are there is a
model A engine within a few miles of your house"
Well I put that question to my freind/mentor/builder of many years. Off the
top of his head, he named me three people in our area that had an A engine
in the cellar or barn. So I guess its true. Just keep asking around. Try
the oldest guys that you know in the area, or the oldtimers that hang around
the service stations. They'll remember more that you think.
walt
NX140DL
rib stitching the day away
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bret & Robin Chilcott" <chilcott(at)terraworld.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: What are sources for Ford Model A engines
>
> Hi guys.
>
>
> What are good sources for Model A Ford engines?
>
> Is there anyone making replica's?
>
> Thank you for your help!
>
> Bret Chilcott
> Neodesha, KS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: What are sources for Ford Model A engines |
Ask a member of the Antique Automobile Club of America.
Cy Galley - Treasurer, Mississippi Valley Region of the AACA
www.aaca.org/mvr - Webmaster
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: What are sources for Ford Model A engines
Brett,
Had read an article in a mag early on that stated that "Odds are there is a
model A engine within a few miles of your house"
Well I put that question to my freind/mentor/builder of many years. Off the
top of his head, he named me three people in our area that had an A engine
in the cellar or barn. So I guess its true. Just keep asking around. Try
the oldest guys that you know in the area, or the oldtimers that hang around
the service stations. They'll remember more that you think.
walt
NX140DL
rib stitching the day away
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bret & Robin Chilcott" <chilcott(at)terraworld.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: What are sources for Ford Model A engines
>
> Hi guys.
>
>
> What are good sources for Model A Ford engines?
>
> Is there anyone making replica's?
>
> Thank you for your help!
>
> Bret Chilcott
> Neodesha, KS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Western Aircraft Supply Ltd. in BC. |
I think it is a one man operation. Phone number is: 1 403 275 3513
The e-mail I had was: mpaxton(at)avweb.com
----------------------------------
On Sat, 02 March 2002, Gdascomb(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Anybody know the status of this company? I get no reply on e-mail or the
> telephone.
> George in Texas
> Ribs are done...lots of sanding to do !
>
>
FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
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Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email!
http://mail.Justice.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com |
Alternate Woods:
Im really pleased with my choice of Douglas Fir for the basic structure.
After you8 get used to the smell(it isnt pine!), and the stiffness, its
really quite pleasant to work with.
Ive done the Horizontal Stabilizer and have gotten into the two elevators.
There I had a little problem. I wanted to use the 5/8 dimension, but didnt
want to narrow the ribs, as necessary if the 1/2 dimension is used. I tried
three times to turn out blanks, using a 1/4 marine plywood spline. Finally,
in disgust, I cut a 1 1/4 w plywood and laminated two 3/4 wide 3/16 thick
to the plywood backbone. This turned out absolutely beautiful, straight and
strong, and Im on my way again.
T-88 is great to work with. I warmed it up in the microwave so I could spread
it with a brush, and Ill certainly do this with the bottom longerons and the
spars, too.
I have quite a bit of the metal work done now, too.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternate Woods |
In a message dated 3/2/02 7:25:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com
writes:
<< Alternate Woods:
Im really pleased with my choice of Douglas Fir for the basic structure.
After you8 get used to the smell(it isnt pine!), and the stiffness, its
really quite pleasant to work with. >>
I've just been looking at Lowe's They have Douglas Fir in 1x6x6 and 1x6x8
width/lengths. With a good eye for straight grain and no knots, think there
could be some good source of wood there. They also have Poplar. This is a
hardwood though isn't it ?
Where are you getting your douglas fir and how much did you start with ?
-dennis the menace
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: What are sources for Ford Model A engines |
Pieters,
I have a Model A block w/crank installed. Don't know the mics. Also 3 extra
cranks and a cam w/ gear. Four connecting rods mounted on a crank. It would
be a good start. Was to be my power until I got this A-65. Got it from an A
Model buddy here in town. He told me I could have it for $150. I've had it in
my garage for two years and haven't paid him yet. If any of you want it, its
here in NW La. 186 East of Dallas, 330 NW of Nawlins, 666 SSW of Mattoon,
Ill, 465 W of Birmingham, 1436 E of San Diego
Corky in La with an idle A Model engine potential
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate Woods |
Guys
I found some 4x4's at Home Depot's that was perfect wood to build spars
from. They were 8 ft. long and the grain was straight. With 4x4's you can
see what you are getting. The cost was only 9.99 each. Of course you have
to have the saws and planers to make useable boards. If you buy the 1x6's
you are not getting an inch thick board. When you resaw you can get any
thickness you like. Have a great day. jas
>
>In a message dated 3/2/02 7:25:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com
>writes:
>
><< Alternate Woods:
>
> Im really pleased with my choice of Douglas Fir for the basic structure.
> After you8 get used to the smell(it isnt pine!), and the stiffness, its
> really quite pleasant to work with. >>
>
>I've just been looking at Lowe's They have Douglas Fir in 1x6x6 and 1x6x8
>width/lengths. With a good eye for straight grain and no knots, think there
>could be some good source of wood there. They also have Poplar. This is a
>hardwood though isn't it ?
>
>Where are you getting your douglas fir and how much did you start with ?
>-dennis the menace
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate Woods |
I got my new spar Douglas Fir the other day. Get to it, this coming week for
setting up the left wing. One of my four main spars in Douglas Fir had twisted
slightly on the end. So I cut it up and use it for aileron spars. There was
some 6 inch by 13 ft x 2 inch Douglas Fir at the lumber yard, but I could not
remember the exact length of the beam when I was there. Hard place to get
to in Metropolitan traffic. Took most of half a day driving around trying to
find cross numbered streets in different city jurisdictions in warehouse districts.
Anyway, I knew I needed a 14 foot piece and kind of thought the measurement
was 13 ft 2 inches, but wasn't sure. So bought a 10 inch wide piece, 2 inchs
thick and 20 feet long. Selected it out of SELECT DOUGLAS FIR, a good portion
of which is aviation grade planks in the bundles they have. Got my plank
MILLED out of it for a charge of $15 and they delivered it to my house, the
three pieces out of the one plank. I chunked the long board back five feet to
make it manageable. Total cost was $70 at the house. Which brings my total
airplane lumber costs around $330 all told. Not counting the plywood.
Ray
On Sat, 02 March 2002, ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Alternate Woods:
>
> Im really pleased with my choice of Douglas Fir for the basic structure.
> After you8 get used to the smell(it isnt pine!), and the stiffness, its
> really quite pleasant to work with.
>
> Ive done the Horizontal Stabilizer and have gotten into the two elevators.
> There I had a little problem. I wanted to use the 5/8 dimension, but didnt
> want to narrow the ribs, as necessary if the 1/2 dimension is used. I tried
> three times to turn out blanks, using a 1/4 marine plywood spline. Finally,
> in disgust, I cut a 1 1/4 w plywood and laminated two 3/4 wide 3/16 thick
> to the plywood backbone. This turned out absolutely beautiful, straight and
> strong, and Im on my way again.
>
> T-88 is great to work with. I warmed it up in the microwave so I could spread
> it with a brush, and Ill certainly do this with the bottom longerons and the
> spars, too.
>
> I have quite a bit of the metal work done now, too.
>
>
FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
http://www.FindLaw.com
Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email!
http://mail.Justice.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | Western Aircraft Supply Ltd. in BC. |
Right phone number wrong province. He is in Calgary Alberta.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fisherman
Caye
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Western Aircraft Supply Ltd. in BC.
I think it is a one man operation. Phone number is: 1 403 275 3513
The e-mail I had was: mpaxton(at)avweb.com
----------------------------------
On Sat, 02 March 2002, Gdascomb(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Anybody know the status of this company? I get no reply on e-mail or the
> telephone.
> George in Texas
> Ribs are done...lots of sanding to do !
>
>
FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
http://www.FindLaw.com
Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email!
http://mail.Justice.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
After a good day's flying (unfortunately non-Pietenpol) the bunch of us
settled into the clubhouse for a bit of Shiner and some hanger flying.
When I mentioned my Piet project I got a lot of questions, but
surprisingly most knew about Piets. My intentions to paint her up as a
'20's Bendix racer were panned however. Most thought that the Piet
resembles a prototype WWI fighter!
Another Shiner (or three) and we kicked around a WWI paint scheme, one
suggestion was for lozenge camouflage and German markings, but the one I
liked was roundels and camo on top with light blue under the wings.
One antique expert mentioned that someone at Rhinebeck sold vacuum
formed plastic skins to make up fake Vickers guns, that got the
discussion going... After a bit I realized the I'd just seen paint ball
guns for sale at Walmart for $29 each. That did it.
A little mounting hardware, some high pressure tubing, trigger switch,
repeating solenoids and a high pressure bottle and we're in business!
Mounted on top of the wing there is no need for interrupter gear and
given the Piet's construction, safety is just a matter of eye protection.
Welcome to the Piet Squadron, where the "punch test" is a daily
requirement! Check six gentlemen!
Larry ;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mikebell(at)sc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Western Aircraft Supply |
The discussion on this list about a year ago, was that the guy who has this
operation was retiring. I think that now we are at least six months past
whatever date it was supposed to happen. Check the archives and you will
find a discussion.
I also remember nothing but good comments about dealing with him, so it may
be worth pestering the guy to supply the makings of "just one more Piet".
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: is the list down or am I the only one not receiving |
any e-mails?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: is the list down or am I the only one not receiving |
any e-mails?
Gene,
I'm not getting anything either!
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | is the list down or am I the only one not receiving |
any e-mails?
I don't think the list is down. Maybe everybody is just busy building
Pietenpols. I got the patterns made for my cockpit coamings today - looks
pretty cool.
Jack in blustery North Carolina
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: is the list down or am I the only one not
receiving any e-mails?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
I've received my reply to Gene regarding the lack of activity on the
list. This tells me that the list is working, at least for me.
The only theory I can come up with to account for this is that there has
been a general stampede down to WalMart and a run on paintball guns...
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: is the list down or am I the only one not receiving |
any e...
Not down here. Got your message loud and clear.
-dennis the menace
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: is the list down or am I the only one not receiving |
any e-mails?
Hello Jack!
I got my control tubing over the weekend and will give that a start
tomorrow. Remind me to list the OD and ID sizes I got. It was sort of
a bear to convert from guages to decimal inch thickness, but checking
today I think I've at least got the horizontal tube and its bushings
sized right.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Quiet List... |
It's so cold in La that our fingers are frozen. I'm typing with my elbow
Corky in La with a fridgid didgit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | Tail feather hinges |
I'm installing strap type hinges in the rudder and elevator. I cut a slit in
the leading edge of the rudder and elev. where each hinge goes as well as a
slit in the vertical and horizontal stab trailing edge .The hinges are glued
in the cutout with T88 and then I drilled two 3/16 holes in each and secured
with 3/16 pop rivets.Anybody see any problems with this??
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Neal" <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: is the list down or am I the only one not
receiving any e-mails?
>
> Hello Jack!
>
> I got my control tubing over the weekend and will give that a start
> tomorrow. Remind me to list the OD and ID sizes I got. It was sort of
> a bear to convert from guages to decimal inch thickness, but checking
> today I think I've at least got the horizontal tube and its bushings
> sized right.
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
Larry
I don't think I'd want to be hit in the back of the head with a psaintball
while flying but the resemblence of Piets to WWI aircraft has been noted
before. That a good look at a Fokker D-8
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry
Neal
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dogfights!
After a good day's flying (unfortunately non-Pietenpol) the bunch of us
settled into the clubhouse for a bit of Shiner and some hanger flying.
When I mentioned my Piet project I got a lot of questions, but
surprisingly most knew about Piets. My intentions to paint her up as a
'20's Bendix racer were panned however. Most thought that the Piet
resembles a prototype WWI fighter!
Another Shiner (or three) and we kicked around a WWI paint scheme, one
suggestion was for lozenge camouflage and German markings, but the one I
liked was roundels and camo on top with light blue under the wings.
One antique expert mentioned that someone at Rhinebeck sold vacuum
formed plastic skins to make up fake Vickers guns, that got the
discussion going... After a bit I realized the I'd just seen paint ball
guns for sale at Walmart for $29 each. That did it.
A little mounting hardware, some high pressure tubing, trigger switch,
repeating solenoids and a high pressure bottle and we're in business!
Mounted on top of the wing there is no need for interrupter gear and
given the Piet's construction, safety is just a matter of eye protection.
Welcome to the Piet Squadron, where the "punch test" is a daily
requirement! Check six gentlemen!
Larry ;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
Yes, We were looking at them. It would not be hard to put the "ears"
on the ends of the ailerons either, but that would get into flutter test
concerns that would have to be resolved.
Take a look at the Spirit of St. Louis as well, pretty much a dead
ringer except for the engine. I'd say that Bernie's design was pretty
state of the art for the '20s.
As far as the paintball on the back of the head goes, no guarantees.
One Piet looks pretty much like another while diving out of the sun, so
you may want to start keeping a sharp lookout. ;-)
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | I found a great lumber yard in Houston |
I found a lumber yard here in Houston with plenty of spar and mast grade,
vertical grain Douglas Fir and Sitka Spruce. Looked beautiful. They will
plane it to my specs. Not completely sure of the total cost, but not too
bad. Spruce is about $10 a linear foot or so. Also had up to 3mm Birch
aircraft grade plywood. It seems to be equivalent to 1/8". Bought some, very
pretty stuff. Will that do for gussets.
Some places are cheaper but I get to see what I am buying - I like that.
Also found a supplier of T-88. Called System Three and they told me right
where to go, which happened to be right across the freeway from where I
work. Did a test glue-up and waiting to break it in a week of so and look at
failure point. It has been cold down here, got down to a whole 27 degrees
last night. ;) All-in-all a great day.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA 665957
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Tail feather hinges |
Sounds like a pretty heavy way to go - strap hinges aren't light and Piets
are notorioulsy tail heavy already. I also don't think I would use pop
rivets on a wooden structure - too much chance of crushing the wood. Why
not just build it to the plans?
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail feather hinges
I'm installing strap type hinges in the rudder and elevator. I cut a slit in
the leading edge of the rudder and elev. where each hinge goes as well as a
slit in the vertical and horizontal stab trailing edge .The hinges are glued
in the cutout with T88 and then I drilled two 3/16 holes in each and secured
with 3/16 pop rivets.Anybody see any problems with this??
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Neal" <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: is the list down or am I the only one not
receiving any e-mails?
>
> Hello Jack!
>
> I got my control tubing over the weekend and will give that a start
> tomorrow. Remind me to list the OD and ID sizes I got. It was sort of
> a bear to convert from guages to decimal inch thickness, but checking
> today I think I've at least got the horizontal tube and its bushings
> sized right.
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail feather hinges |
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 7:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail feather hinges
I'm installing strap type hinges in the rudder and elevator. I cut a
slit in
the leading edge of the rudder and elev. where each hinge goes as well
as a
slit in the vertical and horizontal stab trailing edge .The hinges are
glued
in the cutout with T88 and then I drilled two 3/16 holes in each and
secured
with 3/16 pop rivets.Anybody see any problems with this??
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That'll work, no problem.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: John McNarry
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 7:24 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Dogfights!
Larry
I don't think I'd want to be hit in the back of the head with
a psaintball
while flying but the resemblence of Piets to WWI aircraft has been
noted
before. That a good look at a Fokker D-8
John
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ed Snyder painted his Scout in WW1 colors.
Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol List down? |
Yes sir
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail feather hinges |
Thanks for the reply and the encouraging answer. Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail feather hinges
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 7:13 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail feather hinges
>
>
> I'm installing strap type hinges in the rudder and elevator. I cut a
> slit in
> the leading edge of the rudder and elev. where each hinge goes as well
> as a
> slit in the vertical and horizontal stab trailing edge .The hinges are
> glued
> in the cutout with T88 and then I drilled two 3/16 holes in each and
> secured
> with 3/16 pop rivets.Anybody see any problems with this??
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> That'll work, no problem.
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
| Subject: | Cutting rib gussets |
Hey all,
Cutting rib gussets this week, and want to know how well a hole saw does
on the 1/16 mahogany ply? The round gussets sure are nice, but it seems the
big teeth on the 2" hole saw will rip up the edges pretty bad. I'll back
up the bottom with a board to keep that side from tearing, but will the
gusset tear on the top ?
I really don't have a preference between round and rectangle/square gussets.
I can cut the rectangles with a razor knife and paper cutter. I have a 2' x
4' sheet, and want to get all the gussets out of it. That's enough isn't
it?
Kent Hallsten
Oklahoma City
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting rib gussets |
Kent,
Hole saws don't work very well for this in my experience.
I used a razor knife to cut the ply to manageable sizes, then a standard
paper cutter to make the actual gussets. Made it quick and easy.
I made triangles, rectangles and squares using 1&1/2", 1X2" and 1x1"
sizes respectively. The square went fore and aft of the spar and I
used false spar sections on the rib jig to locate them. The squares
will then locate the ribs on the real spars.
I think you may need more ply, I'm pretty sure I used a 50x50" sheet for
gussets
Larry
Kent Hallsten wrote:
>
>Hey all,
> Cutting rib gussets this week, and want to know how well a hole saw does
>on the 1/16 mahogany ply? The round gussets sure are nice, but it seems the
>big teeth on the 2" hole saw will rip up the edges pretty bad. I'll back
>up the bottom with a board to keep that side from tearing, but will the
>gusset tear on the top ?
>
>I really don't have a preference between round and rectangle/square gussets.
>I can cut the rectangles with a razor knife and paper cutter. I have a 2' x
>4' sheet, and want to get all the gussets out of it. That's enough isn't
>it?
>
>Kent Hallsten
>Oklahoma City
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Cutting rib gussets |
I had access to a sheet metal shear, the kind you stomp on, and it work well
but with a little deformation of the edges. I clamped a few pieces of wood
to the table to act as guides to keep the corners square or angled to the
proper degree, as the gusset warranted.
chris bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry
Neal
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting rib gussets
Kent,
Hole saws don't work very well for this in my experience.
I used a razor knife to cut the ply to manageable sizes, then a standard
paper cutter to make the actual gussets. Made it quick and easy.
I made triangles, rectangles and squares using 1&1/2", 1X2" and 1x1"
sizes respectively. The square went fore and aft of the spar and I
used false spar sections on the rib jig to locate them. The squares
will then locate the ribs on the real spars.
I think you may need more ply, I'm pretty sure I used a 50x50" sheet for
gussets
Larry
Kent Hallsten wrote:
>
>Hey all,
> Cutting rib gussets this week, and want to know how well a hole saw
does
>on the 1/16 mahogany ply? The round gussets sure are nice, but it seems
the
>big teeth on the 2" hole saw will rip up the edges pretty bad. I'll back
>up the bottom with a board to keep that side from tearing, but will the
>gusset tear on the top ?
>
>I really don't have a preference between round and rectangle/square
gussets.
>I can cut the rectangles with a razor knife and paper cutter. I have a 2'
x
>4' sheet, and want to get all the gussets out of it. That's enough isn't
>it?
>
>Kent Hallsten
>Oklahoma City
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting rib gussets |
Kent
I just used a jig saw, a cheap Home Depot hand job for about $22 or so. With
a plywood blade. Then sand the edges if you are fussy.
Ray
On Tue, 05 March 2002, Kent Hallsten wrote:
>
>
> Hey all,
> Cutting rib gussets this week, and want to know how well a hole saw does
> on the 1/16 mahogany ply? The round gussets sure are nice, but it seems the
> big teeth on the 2" hole saw will rip up the edges pretty bad. I'll back
> up the bottom with a board to keep that side from tearing, but will the
> gusset tear on the top ?
>
> I really don't have a preference between round and rectangle/square gussets.
> I can cut the rectangles with a razor knife and paper cutter. I have a 2' x
> 4' sheet, and want to get all the gussets out of it. That's enough isn't
> it?
>
> Kent Hallsten
> Oklahoma City
>
>
FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
http://www.FindLaw.com
Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email!
http://mail.Justice.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Control tube size |
Tom,
I just looked up the gauge sizes using a chart. There are two
standards, SWG which seems to be for non-ferrous metals and AWG which
purports to be for steel. I think that there is a lot of uncertainty
here, but I checked two sources and came up with the following:
Gauge Decimal
10 .1018
11 .0907
12 .0808
13 .0719
14 .0640
15 .0570
16 .0508
17 .0452
18 .0403
19 .0358
20 .0319
From there I looked up the sizes in the AS catalogue and got the
decimal equivalent equal to or heavier, just to err the right way.
The 7/8" tubing is .35 wall and .875 OD I matched this to the 1" tube
with .884 ID. Fits perfectly and turns like butter!
For the elevator walking beam I found 4130 streamlined tubing 2.023 x
.857" . This was a bit pricey, but I've not found any cub struts yet,
so I bit the bullet to keep moving on.
Again I'd be careful about the gauges, this is one of those old
measurement systems probably based on the width of somebody's big toe.
I did not find anything in the standards book, but it would be worth
checking Bingalis's books.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jannica Wunge" <jannicaw(at)hotmail.com> |
Hello Pieters
I have finally received my permission to build an Air Camper from the
Swedish EAA and the document is now behind glass and a frame on my workshop
wall. In other words, I am in business and I am currently working on the
wing ribs.
Last week I collected most of the wood needed for the aeroplane from a small
sawmill. The man who runs the sawmill used to produce balsa sheets for the
model hobby trade but he has more and more turned to saw wood for
homebuilders. He has cut most of the wood I need from Swedish fir for around
700 USD. It is very convenient since he cuts it to the dimensions I need in
inches, ready to use. Otherwise this is a strictly metric country. He is
also familiar with the wood requirements for building aeroplanes so I expect
to be able to use most of it. Of course, in the end, it is up to me to
decide what wood to use and what to discard. But on the other hand, this man
knows more about wood than I could learn in a lifetime.
For a while I was thinking in terms of using a Subaru EA81 engine for the
aeroplane and I was actually on my way to buy an old Subaru car to get it.
But as things turned out I changed my mind and never bought it.
Now my dreams are in the direction of diesel engines instead. I found the
DAIR 100 on the web and I think it would be a great power source for the Air
Camper. Unfortunately, I understand that the company has economical
problems, but lets hope that they come into production. Go on and have a
look at: http://www.dair.co.uk/
Here in Sweden the winter is coming to an end now and the snow is slowly
melting away. The days are becoming longer and spring is around the corner.
Besides the Air Camper I am also working on the annual overhaul of our
Ventus motorglider and I hope to be flying it again around Easter. I have
also started to plan for our summer vacation and maybe we will go to England
to have a look at their ships if they have any gathering around July or
August. Lown slow.
Jannica in Sweden
Hmta MSN Explorer kostnadsfritt p http://explorer.msn.se/intl.asp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
I think using the list for it's intended purpose is a terrific idea. I don't download
this sucker each day to find out about South American governments or why
someone thinks a GN-1 is better than a Pietenpol. This is THE PIET list......let's
keep on task or we might collapse into a bunch of
rambling narratives while one lister tries to out-do another. I've seen it happen
to other lists.
Piets Forever-
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Seibert <r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com> |
Larry,
If you are looking for some good plywood in the Houston area, try
713-896-6200 I think the name of the place is Richto Supply or something
like that. They are at 8515 Breen in West Houston. I just drove over
from Austin and picked up a sheet of 1/16 Hoop Pine plywood for $48. It
is the same stuff they advertize in Sport Aviation. Thats a 4X8 sheet
and its enough to do a million gussets and your leading edges too!
That is a strange place! They basically sell oil field pipe by the
trainload and have all kinds of very weird stuff that takes huge
forklifts. But back in the warehouse, they have a selection of the
prettiest plywood I ever saw!
Regards,
Bob Seibert
In thawing Taylor, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
| Subject: | Cutting rib gussets |
Thanks everyone!
I'll be able to cut with all the suggestions here! I have access to
a whole sheetmetal shop, with shears, (sometimes wonder why I'm not
building an aluminum can airplane) , jig saws, paper cutters, etc.
Took stock of my rib material, and I think I messed up. I had 8' lengths of
wood capstrip. over 500', enough to get the ribs. But when I started
cutting rib capstrip braces, I should have cut about 34" of each strip,
leaving 60+ inches for the top and bottom capstrip. Then use the 34" piece
for the smaller parts. N0 , not me. I cut and cut and cut and now all my
small stuff is cut, and I have about 25 8' pieces left for the top and
bottom strips. I need about 58 - 60 right? So time to get some more wood!
Kent Hallsten
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Control tube size |
Larry,
AWG refers to American Wire Gage and is for copper wire sizes. The gages I
have been using came from an old Engineering Materials Book which lists the
following table:
THICKNESS OF STANDARD GAGES FOR CARBON STEEL SHEETS, INCHES
GAGE THICKNESS
7 0.1793
8 0.1644
9 0.1494
10 0.1345
11 0.1196
12 0.1046
13 0.0897
14 0.0747
15 0.0673
16 0.0598
17 0.0538
18 0.0478
19 0.0418
20 0.0359
21 0.0329
22 0.0299
23 0.0269
24 0.0239
25 0.0209
26 0.0179
27 0.0164
28 0.0149
29 0.0135
30 0.0120
This seems to equate pretty well for tubing, too. Where the plans call for
18 gage tubing, I used .049" wall. Where it calls for 20 Gage, I used .035"
wall. For 16 gage sheet I used .063" material, and for 22 gage (control
horns) I used .032" sheet. For 13 gage I used .090".
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Neal
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control tube size
Tom,
I just looked up the gauge sizes using a chart. There are two
standards, SWG which seems to be for non-ferrous metals and AWG which
purports to be for steel. I think that there is a lot of uncertainty
here, but I checked two sources and came up with the following:
Gauge Decimal
10 .1018
11 .0907
12 .0808
13 .0719
14 .0640
15 .0570
16 .0508
17 .0452
18 .0403
19 .0358
20 .0319
From there I looked up the sizes in the AS catalogue and got the
decimal equivalent equal to or heavier, just to err the right way.
The 7/8" tubing is .35 wall and .875 OD I matched this to the 1" tube
with .884 ID. Fits perfectly and turns like butter!
For the elevator walking beam I found 4130 streamlined tubing 2.023 x
.857" . This was a bit pricey, but I've not found any cub struts yet,
so I bit the bullet to keep moving on.
Again I'd be careful about the gauges, this is one of those old
measurement systems probably based on the width of somebody's big toe.
I did not find anything in the standards book, but it would be worth
checking Bingalis's books.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet list down? |
I greatly disagree, I think the GN-1 Piet discussion is perfectly valid
and everything detail we discuss regarding Piets is applicable to these
folks. It's obviously a Piet variant, and even purists have benefited
from going over it's plans. Should we shut them off just because they
use a funny airfoil and steel fuselage?
I also think a healthy list needs some banter and amusement. This list
has been this way since long before Matronics hosted it and I don't mind
a bit. When I get tired of it of the nonsense, I just
shift-arrow-delete. Problem solved.
The other Larry
LAWRENCE WILLIAMS wrote:
>
>I think using the list for it's intended purpose is a terrific idea. I do>n't
download this sucker each day to find out about South American govern>ments or
why someone thinks a GN-1 is better than a Pietenpol. This is TH>E PIET list......let's
keep on task or we might collapse into a bunch of
>rambling narratives while one lister tries to out-do another. I've seen i>t happen
to other lists.
>
>Piets Forever-
>
>Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
Hey Larry,
What do you suggest the GN-1 builders do?? Start their own list?? Im
building a GN-1 and seems like I always have a question or two. I post it
to this list because both aircraft share amazing similarities. It also
seems like a few guys here have built both Piets and GN-1s. While I agree
that there should not be any my dad can beat up your dad GN-1 is better
type posts, I hope you and other die hard Pieters can also agree that for
all intents and purposes the GN-1 and Piet share enough similarities that we
can both live here together. Ive already learned a couple good tips from
Piet builders.
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of LAWRENCE
WILLIAMS
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet list down?
I think using the list for it's intended purpose is a terrific idea. I don't download
this sucker each day to find out about South American governments or why
someone thinks a GN-1 is better than a Pietenpol. This is THE PIET list......let's
keep on task or we might collapse into a bunch of
rambling narratives while one lister tries to out-do another. I've seen it happen
to other lists.
Piets Forever-
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Plywood Gussets/ribs |
I used 1/16" ply from Balsa USA. I used to order from them when I was heavy
into RC airplanes/helicopters. I bought 6 sheets of 12x48 for $55. It is
very tight ply. I then cut it on a table saw with a thin plywood blade.
I cut the sheets down into 1" strips. I then cut 3 lengths from the
strips.... small 1" squares, 2" rectangles, and 4" rectangles. I threw
them all in a bucket and pull them as needed.
Also, I cut "kits" for my ribs. Basically I cut and sanded each piece and
assigned it a number. 1-17. I spent an entire day doing this. When I
make a new rib I just pull a set of 1-17. Thi saves ALOT of time. before
when I would build a rib and cut as needed for that rib it would take about
2 hours for a complete rib... now thats down to about 40 minutes.
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | I found a great lumber yard in Houston |
I goofed and did not post where I found the lumber yard. Here goes, this is
taken from replies to others in the Houston area.
I found it through a friend who is restoring a sail boat in Kemah. NOT TO
WORRY, it is off I-10 at Studemont, middle of the 610 Loop. The name is
Hardwood Lumber Co.
700 East 5 1/2 St.
Houston, TX
713-862-6628
If you come in 290 go to 610, then go east on I-10 to Studement. Go under
the underpass (turn left) at Studemont and go up to White Oak and turn left
there. Go down two streets to Granberry and turn left there. This street is
residential. At the end is a collection of warehouses, all owned by this
lumber company. I told them what I was looking for and the guy just let me
meander around all the warehouses. I ran into another guy who said there was
another lumber yard off of W34th and Mangum, I still need to look into that.
Also, there is Sutherland, which may have it. I think there are plenty of
places in Houston. I think my problem was fear of not knowing what woods to
look for. I am more confident now after reading EAA Aircraft Building Tech.
Wood. And the wood there was nice. They have rough stock that they can plane
to your dimensions. I am not much of a bargain hunter, I never have been,
but the wood looked great so I bought it (impulse buy, but ready to use it
then, no two month wait). The wood was all very nice and straight.
T-88 I found in the 4 oz. bottles (I am just starting and that is fine for
me, though a bit more expensive. I got the last set but asked if they also
get the bigger bottles. No firm answer. Got it at Woodcraft Supply at 290
and Holister. It is on the south side of 290 near the aquarium store.
I just started for real 2 days ago. Cut my first main rudder beam last
night.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA 665957
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | control tubes / T6 or 4130 |
I'm curious.... the Fisher Celebrity my dad and I are building has
aluminum control tubes/assemblies. Construction is easy as it either is
bolted together or riveted. We built the entire assembly in a few hours and
it's light too. I'd say you could shave about 2 lbs as opposed to 4130.
I havent yet decided if I'll stick to plans or go aluminum. Any opinions?
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Control tube size |
Jack,
Thanks, I am now pretty sure that you're right, there seems to be both
ferrous and non-ferrous standards, plus one for wire and plate. I'd now
be cautious that there
is not one for tubing as well! What do you say we double-double check
this and post it with a logical subject line.
I hate antique standards, what a place for a screwup, fortunately
selecting the next heaviest match landed me right on the money. Except
for the 1" tube for bearings, in which 18 gauge would have given me
more slop. A lucky break after my error. Tom just called too, I'm now
de-certified for anything but metric measurements ;-)
Now I've got to redo my motor mounts. I calculated .080 using my chart,
this information would put the closest available size for 13 gauge at .090.
Can you say - measure twice, cut once...
Larry
Jack Phillips wrote:
>
>Larry,
>
>AWG refers to American Wire Gage and is for copper wire sizes. The gages I
>have been using came from an old Engineering Materials Book which lists the
>following table:
>
>THICKNESS OF STANDARD GAGES FOR CARBON STEEL SHEETS, INCHES
>
>GAGE THICKNESS
>
>7 0.1793
>8 0.1644
>9 0.1494
>10 0.1345
>11 0.1196
>12 0.1046
>13 0.0897
>14 0.0747
>15 0.0673
>16 0.0598
>17 0.0538
>18 0.0478
>19 0.0418
>20 0.0359
>21 0.0329
>22 0.0299
>23 0.0269
>24 0.0239
>25 0.0209
>26 0.0179
>27 0.0164
>28 0.0149
>29 0.0135
>30 0.0120
>
>This seems to equate pretty well for tubing, too. Where the plans call for
>18 gage tubing, I used .049" wall. Where it calls for 20 Gage, I used .035"
>wall. For 16 gage sheet I used .063" material, and for 22 gage (control
>horns) I used .032" sheet. For 13 gage I used .090".
>
>Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Neal
>Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 9:23 PM
>To: piet list
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control tube size
>
>
>Tom,
>
>I just looked up the gauge sizes using a chart. There are two
>standards, SWG which seems to be for non-ferrous metals and AWG which
>purports to be for steel. I think that there is a lot of uncertainty
>here, but I checked two sources and came up with the following:
>
>Gauge Decimal
>10 .1018
>11 .0907
>12 .0808
>13 .0719
>14 .0640
>15 .0570
>16 .0508
>17 .0452
>18 .0403
>19 .0358
>20 .0319
>
> From there I looked up the sizes in the AS catalogue and got the
>decimal equivalent equal to or heavier, just to err the right way.
>The 7/8" tubing is .35 wall and .875 OD I matched this to the 1" tube
>with .884 ID. Fits perfectly and turns like butter!
>
>For the elevator walking beam I found 4130 streamlined tubing 2.023 x
>.857" . This was a bit pricey, but I've not found any cub struts yet,
>so I bit the bullet to keep moving on.
>
>Again I'd be careful about the gauges, this is one of those old
>measurement systems probably based on the width of somebody's big toe.
> I did not find anything in the standards book, but it would be worth
>checking Bingalis's books.
>
>Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | aluminum lift/jury struts |
I just placed my order for aluminumn streamlined lift struts from Carlson
Aircraft. I also ordered some of thier streamline jury strut material.
For an extra $18.50 they also sent a kit to install the jury struts. The kit
comes with terminating ends and strap material. best part is the entire
bill came to $222.50 plus shipping! try that with 4130 streamline!
I had them cut my struts at 100" that gives me 26" of fall-off. I'm
considering using the fall-off as cabane struts. The person at Carlson
said if I was in any doubt as to strength I could stick a 1" square piece
all the way through. I like the idea. Have any others out there used the
aluminum for cabane struts??
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | I found a great lumber yard in Houston |
OK Ohio Pieters!
Since I don't plan on traveling to Houston any time soon, so any of you OH
guys know of any good local sources of lumber & plywood? The only
independent lumber yard nearby (as opposed to any of the 'evil empire'
mega-stores) carries a small amount of Douglas fir, mostly in 2x10 (x
16'!), and it's lousy quality, aircraft-wise. So far, they are the only
place around here I've found that carries Resorcinol glue & no one has even
heard of T-88!
I don't mind travelling some, but Houston is a tad too far!
Luckily, I have a manufacturer of AN hardware 2 blocks up the street from
my house, so that part of the project is covered!
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Progress report |
Jannica,
Congratulations!
I looked at the Dair diesel page, technically it looks extremely
interesting, but I'm still a bit miffed about the costs of the ready to
fly engines.
While a certified engine will also cost a fortune and are hard to find
on the continent, if I were you I'd certainly consider that avenue.
When I look at small, new engine manufacturers, I worry that I would be
dependent on a small companies parts supply. Even if I went that route,
I might choose the Rotec 100hp or HCI 75hp radial over others just for
the charm factor, but am I correct in understanding that diesel is much
more economical over there? That would be a consideration.
For auto engines, I don't know if the Corvair is even an option there,
but the Suburu would be the next bet for a low(er) cost alternative. So
far as I've seen, that would be the most realistic short list.
Oh-Oh, non Piet comment approaching! Good luck with the Ventus annual,
what a nice ship! I just got my towpilot check-out, will be towing in a
couple of weeks in the Pawnee. I am already starting to feel more noble
and morally virtuous ;-)
Have fun building.
Larry
Jannica Wunge wrote:
>
>Hello Pieters
>I have finally received my permission to build an Air Camper from the
>Swedish EAA and the document is now behind glass and a frame on my workshop
>wall. In other words, I am in business and I am currently working on the
>wing ribs.
>Last week I collected most of the wood needed for the aeroplane from a small
>sawmill. The man who runs the sawmill used to produce balsa sheets for the
>model hobby trade but he has more and more turned to saw wood for
>homebuilders. He has cut most of the wood I need from Swedish fir for around
>700 USD. It is very convenient since he cuts it to the dimensions I need in
>inches, ready to use. Otherwise this is a strictly metric country. He is
>also familiar with the wood requirements for building aeroplanes so I expect
>to be able to use most of it. Of course, in the end, it is up to me to
>decide what wood to use and what to discard. But on the other hand, this man
>knows more about wood than I could learn in a lifetime.
>
>For a while I was thinking in terms of using a Subaru EA81 engine for the
>aeroplane and I was actually on my way to buy an old Subaru car to get it.
>But as things turned out I changed my mind and never bought it.
>Now my dreams are in the direction of diesel engines instead. I found the
>DAIR 100 on the web and I think it would be a great power source for the Air
>Camper. Unfortunately, I understand that the company has economical
>problems, but lets hope that they come into production. Go on and have a
>look at: http://www.dair.co.uk/
>
>Here in Sweden the winter is coming to an end now and the snow is slowly
>melting away. The days are becoming longer and spring is around the corner.
>Besides the Air Camper I am also working on the annual overhaul of our
>Ventus motorglider and I hope to be flying it again around Easter. I have
>also started to plan for our summer vacation and maybe we will go to England
>to have a look at their ships if they have any gathering around July or
>August. Lown slow.
>Jannica in Sweden
>
>
>Hmta MSN Explorer kostnadsfritt p http://explorer.msn.se/intl.asp
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
markauxillou(at)hotmail.com,
lindajmia(at)aol.com, computers(at)btl.net, samriggs(at)usa.net, pmbelize(at)btl.net,
rpollero(at)aol.com, marvinbseidman(at)webtv.net, SUrscheler(at)hotmail.com,
Serodino(at)worldnet.att.net, parmses(at)aol.com, annettenewell(at)hotmail.com,
tajama(at)rogers.com, msfemrite(at)hotmail.com, C7814U(at)aol.com,
armorgod(at)concentric.net, aschilha(at)yahoo.com
| Subject: | photo update on plane building in backyard |
Here is the update on plane building in backyard. Three photos. Those with slow
modems give it five minutes to load the three photos with music.
http://www.anglefire.com/falcon/retired/pietpage4.html
Ray
FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
http://www.FindLaw.com
Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email!
http://mail.Justice.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Ken Perkins makes parts for Piets |
Group----I am forwarding this to you from Ken Perkins so PLEASE e-mail Ken
for any info, not me. He is an excellent craftsman and has a really nice
looking Ford Piet. His e-mail is:
kenvernaperkins(at)juno.com
Thanks Mike for your help. Yes, please post for me. I can email pictures
showing some of these parts if anyone wants.
Ken
I don't think everybody knows that I build parts for Piets. Water pumps
for model A's using modern seals and bearings.Also I make mag drives to
drive slick mag off crank. Tail wheel assy's that are steerable off
rudder and full swiveling. Carb parts for B Zenith ( throttle shaft and
mixture control ). Make wire wheel hubs as used on Frank P. airplane.
These are like the parts I have on my Piet.
Hope to see you at Brodhead this year.
Regards,
Ken Perkins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aluminum lift/jury struts |
DJ Vegh
Haven't got there yet, but been thinking about those struts. Critical thing those,
considering you are a basket hanging from them. But that sounds VERY expensive
to me? Are there alternatives?
Ray
On Tue, 05 March 2002, "DJ Vegh" wrote:
>
>
> I just placed my order for aluminumn streamlined lift struts from Carlson
> Aircraft. I also ordered some of thier streamline jury strut material.
> For an extra $18.50 they also sent a kit to install the jury struts. The kit
> comes with terminating ends and strap material. best part is the entire
> bill came to $222.50 plus shipping! try that with 4130 streamline!
>
> I had them cut my struts at 100" that gives me 26" of fall-off. I'm
> considering using the fall-off as cabane struts. The person at Carlson
> said if I was in any doubt as to strength I could stick a 1" square piece
> all the way through. I like the idea. Have any others out there used the
> aluminum for cabane struts??
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
>
FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community
http://www.FindLaw.com
Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email!
http://mail.Justice.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
| Subject: | photo update on plane building in backyard |
Ray, The link doesn't work for me, takes me to "sports friend finder"
Kent
-----Original Message-----
From: Fisherman Caye [mailto:cayecaulker(at)justice.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: photo update on plane building in backyard
Here is the update on plane building in backyard. Three photos. Those with
slow modems give it five minutes to load the three photos with music.
http://www.anglefire.com/falcon/retired/pietpage4.html
Ray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aluminum lift/jury struts |
Ray,
not sure what your concern on cost is.... the entire aluminum strut order
I placed today came up to $222 plus shipping. That was for 4 lift struts,
4 cabane struts, and jury struts as well as jury strut assembly kit.
To do all that with 4130 streamline would have cost well over $1200. Thats
one hell of a savings in money and a few pounds lighter in weight.
go to www.sky-tek.com and check them out.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fisherman Caye" <cayecaulker(at)justice.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aluminum lift/jury struts
>
>
> DJ Vegh
>
> Haven't got there yet, but been thinking about those struts. Critical
thing those, considering you are a basket hanging from them. But that
sounds VERY expensive to me? Are there alternatives?
>
> Ray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | I found a great lumber yard in Houston |
Kip, try calling System Three at 1-800-333-5514 and ask for a local distributor. They are extremely friendly and helpful. Told me right where to go, which just happened to be right across the freeway from where I work, which is far from my home (12 miles of so). I popped over for lunch and bought the T-88 to boot. Great company, System Three. Web site is http://www.systemthree.com/.
-Gary
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:37:53 -0500
>
>OK Ohio Pieters!
>
>Since I don't plan on traveling to Houston any time soon, so any of you OH
>guys know of any good local sources of lumber & plywood? The only
>independent lumber yard nearby (as opposed to any of the 'evil empire'
>mega-stores) carries a small amount of Douglas fir, mostly in 2x10 (x
>16'!), and it's lousy quality, aircraft-wise. So far, they are the only
>place around here I've found that carries Resorcinol glue & no one has even
>heard of T-88!
>
>I don't mind travelling some, but Houston is a tad too far!
>
>Luckily, I have a manufacturer of AN hardware 2 blocks up the street from
>my house, so that part of the project is covered!
>
>Cheers!
>
>Kip Gardner
>
>
>426 Schneider St. SE
>North Canton, OH 44720
>(330) 494-1775
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | photo update on plane building in backyard |
Same here. -Gary
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:53:39 -0600
>
>Ray, The link doesn't work for me, takes me to "sports friend finder"
>
>Kent
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Fisherman Caye [mailto:cayecaulker(at)justice.com]
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: photo update on plane building in backyard
>
>Here is the update on plane building in backyard. Three photos. Those with
>slow modems give it five minutes to load the three photos with music.
>
>http://www.anglefire.com/falcon/retired/pietpage4.html
>
>Ray
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aluminum lift/jury struts |
D.J.
4130 streamline from Dillsburg Aeroplane for GN-1 lift struts only was
$464.00 incl frt. in Jan. 02.
DickG, Ft. Myers
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aluminum lift/jury struts
>
> Ray,
>
> not sure what your concern on cost is.... the entire aluminum strut
order
> I placed today came up to $222 plus shipping. That was for 4 lift
struts,
> 4 cabane struts, and jury struts as well as jury strut assembly kit.
>
> To do all that with 4130 streamline would have cost well over $1200.
Thats
> one hell of a savings in money and a few pounds lighter in weight.
>
> go to www.sky-tek.com and check them out.
>
> DJ
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fisherman Caye" <cayecaulker(at)justice.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aluminum lift/jury struts
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > DJ Vegh
> >
> > Haven't got there yet, but been thinking about those struts. Critical
> thing those, considering you are a basket hanging from them. But that
> sounds VERY expensive to me? Are there alternatives?
> >
> > Ray
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Kent-rib gussets |
1-cut out a bunch with slightly oversize
hole saw
2-bolt them together
3-sand down past rough edges on disc
or belt sander the separate and clean up.
Half my gussets are round but the rest
were made the same way as D J's
particularly the ones in the center of the
rib between the two spars. Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aluminum lift/jury struts |
So how much would running a 1" square steel bar through the strut add to the weight?
That sounds heavy and sort of defeats the purpose of light weight aluminium
struts. Sounds like I need to do some math.
-Gary in Houston on a beautiful day.
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:35:04 -0700
>
>I just placed my order for aluminumn streamlined lift struts from Carlson
>Aircraft. I also ordered some of thier streamline jury strut material.
>For an extra $18.50 they also sent a kit to install the jury struts. The kit
>comes with terminating ends and strap material. best part is the entire
>bill came to $222.50 plus shipping! try that with 4130 streamline!
>
>I had them cut my struts at 100" that gives me 26" of fall-off. I'm
>considering using the fall-off as cabane struts. The person at Carlson
>said if I was in any doubt as to strength I could stick a 1" square piece
>all the way through. I like the idea. Have any others out there used the
>aluminum for cabane struts??
>
>DJ Vegh
>Mesa, AZ
>GN-1 Builder
>www.raptoronline.com
>N74DV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: aluminum lift/jury struts |
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)charter.net> |
Which brings me back to old Piper lift struts. Scrounge around. They are
there and they are useless on a Piper. Take advantage of them.
>
>
> So how much would running a 1" square steel bar through the strut add to the
> weight? That sounds heavy and sort of defeats the purpose of light weight
> aluminium struts. Sounds like I need to do some math.
>
> -Gary in Houston on a beautiful day.
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:35:04 -0700
>
>>
>> I just placed my order for aluminumn streamlined lift struts from Carlson
>> Aircraft. I also ordered some of thier streamline jury strut material.
>> For an extra $18.50 they also sent a kit to install the jury struts. The kit
>> comes with terminating ends and strap material. best part is the entire
>> bill came to $222.50 plus shipping! try that with 4130 streamline!
>>
>> I had them cut my struts at 100" that gives me 26" of fall-off. I'm
>> considering using the fall-off as cabane struts. The person at Carlson
>> said if I was in any doubt as to strength I could stick a 1" square piece
>> all the way through. I like the idea. Have any others out there used the
>> aluminum for cabane struts??
>>
>> DJ Vegh
>> Mesa, AZ
>> GN-1 Builder
>> www.raptoronline.com
>> N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
| Subject: | Tail feather hinges |
I would worry a bit about the pop rivets crushing the wood. Maybe a washer
on each end before you fasten it.
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark [mailto:markmc(at)bluebonnet.net]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail feather hinges
I'm installing strap type hinges in the rudder and elevator. I cut a slit in
the leading edge of the rudder and elev. where each hinge goes as well as a
slit in the vertical and horizontal stab trailing edge .The hinges are glued
in the cutout with T88 and then I drilled two 3/16 holes in each and secured
with 3/16 pop rivets.Anybody see any problems with this??
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Neal" <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: is the list down or am I the only one not
receiving any e-mails?
>
> Hello Jack!
>
> I got my control tubing over the weekend and will give that a start
> tomorrow. Remind me to list the OD and ID sizes I got. It was sort of
> a bear to convert from guages to decimal inch thickness, but checking
> today I think I've at least got the horizontal tube and its bushings
> sized right.
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | aluminum lift/jury struts |
-----Original Message-----
Which brings me back to old Piper lift struts. Scrounge around. They are
there and they are useless on a Piper. Take advantage of them.
That's what I did. Got one set of J-3 struts for free. I'm negotiating for
a second set so I can make all four struts the same size. Hopefully the
second set will be the same price as the first.
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: aluminum lift/jury struts |
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)charter.net> |
Go get 'em Jack!
Even Ray can't disagree with that price!
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> Which brings me back to old Piper lift struts. Scrounge around. They are
> there and they are useless on a Piper. Take advantage of them.
>
>
> That's what I did. Got one set of J-3 struts for free. I'm negotiating for
> a second set so I can make all four struts the same size. Hopefully the
> second set will be the same price as the first.
>
> Jack
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aluminum lift/jury struts |
DJ Vegh
Your right. Popped off my mouth before considering things! When I see big sums,
I immediately holler! Haven't got that close yet. But am working on wings.
Somehow, in my minds eye, I only saw two struts. But your right, there are
four. What the heck are cabane struts? That word cabane puzzles me. I'm sure
when I study the plans, it will become clear, but put in a long day today.
Ray
On Tue, 05 March 2002, "Dick and Marge Gillespie" wrote:
>
>
> D.J.
> 4130 streamline from Dillsburg Aeroplane for GN-1 lift struts only was
> $464.00 incl frt. in Jan. 02.
> DickG, Ft. Myers
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aluminum lift/jury struts
>
>
> >
> > Ray,
> >
> > not sure what your concern on cost is.... the entire aluminum strut
> order
> > I placed today came up to $222 plus shipping. That was for 4 lift
> struts,
> > 4 cabane struts, and jury struts as well as jury strut assembly kit.
> >
> > To do all that with 4130 streamline would have cost well over $1200.
> Thats
> > one hell of a savings in money and a few pounds lighter in weight.
> >
> > go to www.sky-tek.com and check them out.
> >
> > DJ
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Fisherman Caye" <cayecaulker(at)justice.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aluminum lift/jury struts
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > DJ Vegh
> > >
> > > Haven't got there yet, but been thinking about those struts. Critical
> > thing those, considering you are a basket hanging from them. But that
> > sounds VERY expensive to me? Are there alternatives?
> > >
> > > Ray
> >
> >
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
At the Oshkosh EAA Chapter meeting last night, Charlie Becker showed us a
pair of pliers-looking cutters that do the job of cutting gussets and even
capstrips neat and clean and with one squeeze of the handles.
Charlie got them at the Oskosh Menard store (sort of a Wisconsin style
hardware/lumberyard place) and they cost less than $5. They look like an
oversize pair of pliers, but have a replaceable single-edge razor blade
that fastens tightly to one jaw (three little screws). The other jaw is a
flat anvil. He has cut a lot of wood with his and has yet to replace the
first razor blade.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
| Subject: | photo update on plane building in backyard |
Strange Kent, I was trying the link this morning and got the same website. I figured
after a half hour of diddling around, somebody had hacked into their site
and hijacked the software link.
But I loaded those photos early this morning and it worked. Just now I also
checked the site by typing in the address and it worked. But just now on your
message copy, I pressed the link and get the Sports site also. I have no idea
what is going on?
http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/retired/pietpage4.html
Ray
On Tue, 05 March 2002, "Gary McNeel, Jr." wrote:
>
>
> Same here. -Gary
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com>
> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:53:39 -0600
>
> >
> >Ray, The link doesn't work for me, takes me to "sports friend finder"
> >
> >Kent
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Fisherman Caye [mailto:cayecaulker(at)justice.com]
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: photo update on plane building in backyard
> >
> >Here is the update on plane building in backyard. Three photos. Those with
> >slow modems give it five minutes to load the three photos with music.
> >
> >http://www.anglefire.com/falcon/retired/pietpage4.html
> >
> >Ray
> >
> >
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
This sounds like a tool I have in my carpet laying toolbox. It is used to
cut the spiked wood strips that get nailed around the edge of a room. I
used mine for a year or two, cutting 1/4" plywood strips, and the occasional
tack. They blade is dinged, but I'll try it tonight and get back to
everyone.
At the Oshkosh EAA Chapter meeting last night, Charlie Becker showed us a
pair of pliers-looking cutters that do the job of cutting gussets and even
capstrips neat and clean and with one squeeze of the handles.
Charlie got them at the Oskosh Menard store (sort of a Wisconsin style
hardware/lumberyard place) and they cost less than $5. They look like an
oversize pair of pliers, but have a replaceable single-edge razor blade
that fastens tightly to one jaw (three little screws). The other jaw is a
flat anvil. He has cut a lot of wood with his and has yet to replace the
first razor blade.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fisherman Caye <cayecaulker(at)justice.com> |
belizedvtrust(at)justice.com
| Subject: | changed the page of plane construction |
My airplane photos.
There was something wrong with the page setup I had on Angelfire.com
Anyway, I changed the address to:
http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/retired/pietpage5.html
Let me see if the page comes up now. Going to mail it to myself here for a test.
The address works when you type it in. But didn't work on the link. Hope
I fixed it. Got about 3 photos loaded this morning of construction process
of the Pietenpol airplane.
Ray
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: I found a great lumber yard in Houston |
Are you gonna keep it a secret? What's the name of the lumber yard?
>
>I found a lumber yard here in Houston with plenty of spar and mast grade,
>vertical grain Douglas Fir and Sitka Spruce. Looked beautiful. They will
>plane it to my specs. Not completely sure of the total cost, but not too
>bad. Spruce is about $10 a linear foot or so. Also had up to 3mm Birch
>aircraft grade plywood. It seems to be equivalent to 1/8". Bought some, very
>pretty stuff. Will that do for gussets.
>
>Some places are cheaper but I get to see what I am buying - I like that.
>Also found a supplier of T-88. Called System Three and they told me right
>where to go, which happened to be right across the freeway from where I
>work. Did a test glue-up and waiting to break it in a week of so and look at
>failure point. It has been cold down here, got down to a whole 27 degrees
>last night. ;) All-in-all a great day.
>
>Regards,
>
>Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
>MyKitPlane.com
>EAA 665957
>gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
>http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
>
>"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
>
> Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
>a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | aluminum lift/jury struts |
Gary,
there would not be a steel bar run through the lift struts. The struts are
hollow extruded aluminum with flats on the inside which are spaced to accept
a 1" aluminum .065 square tube. The square tube is inserted only about 4"
into the strut and bolted. About 1.5" extends out for attachment to the
aircraft.
The only place someone MIGHT run an aliminum bar all the way through would
be the cabane struts... which is only about 23" or so.
Weight savings of the aluminum struts over 4130 is quite significant.
4130 large strut material is 1.1lb/ft. Aluminum is .55lb/ft. Thats almost
half the weight.
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
McNeel, Jr.
So how much would running a 1" square steel bar through the strut add to the
weight? That sounds heavy and sort of defeats the purpose of light weight
aluminium struts. Sounds like I need to do some math.
-Gary in Houston on a beautiful day.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: control tubes / T6 or 4130 |
Being welder challenged, I thought about this too. I am inclined toward working
with aluminium for the torque tube/stick. Do any of you know of any other planes
out there using aluminium for this? I have seen it used on the Airdrome Aeroplanes
aluminium WWI aircraft. I like the look of the D-VIII and was considering
building it before seeing the Piet.
February 21, 2002 - March 05, 2002
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-cl