Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-cn
March 14, 2002 - March 22, 2002
>Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:50:15 EST
>
>
>Pieters,
>Have followed the discussion of angle of aircraft at rest with interest. I
>too went out with my protractor level and discovered ole 41CC is snugly
>perched at 9 1/2 o. I also measured my engine (crank shaft) angle. Guess
>what
>5 1/2 o. Thats a downthrust of foe degrees. Being the greatest Tuba player
>outside the fatherland, frankly I don't know my a-- from 5th base on these
>technicals. Please, some of you Purdue Engineer grads or any other school
>advise me about this engine angle. I've brought this up several times on
>the
>net but the conversation usually drifts off to wheels, spokes, materials
>used
>for sticks etc. Hope I can create some discussion about this engine angle
>stuff. I have a volunteer test pilot. A real nice guy. And I really don't
>want him to experience any more problems than necessary. Hell, funerals are
>more expensive than Piets.
>Corky in La eating MB&Spaghetti tonite.
>
>
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Deep thoughts |
I think I remember someone posting that the Continental mount could be
shimmed with washers under the mounts to make minor adjustments.
Ed
>From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Deep thoughts
>Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:50:15 EST
>
>
>Pieters,
>Have followed the discussion of angle of aircraft at rest with interest. I
>too went out with my protractor level and discovered ole 41CC is snugly
>perched at 9 1/2 o. I also measured my engine (crank shaft) angle. Guess
>what
>5 1/2 o. Thats a downthrust of foe degrees. Being the greatest Tuba player
>outside the fatherland, frankly I don't know my a-- from 5th base on these
>technicals. Please, some of you Purdue Engineer grads or any other school
>advise me about this engine angle. I've brought this up several times on
>the
>net but the conversation usually drifts off to wheels, spokes, materials
>used
>for sticks etc. Hope I can create some discussion about this engine angle
>stuff. I have a volunteer test pilot. A real nice guy. And I really don't
>want him to experience any more problems than necessary. Hell, funerals are
>more expensive than Piets.
>Corky in La eating MB&Spaghetti tonite.
>
>
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Deep thoughts |
Ed,
Tomorrow I will add washers between the lower engine rubbers and mount until
I reach 3 or 3 1/2. Maybe by then one of those engineer types will come
forward with some aeronautical theories. Glad we don't have any Texas Aggies
building Piets. Might be flying backwards. All in fun.
Corky an LSU Tiger in La but I didn't study Engineering but can play a hell
of a Tuba.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
Gene,
there is an article in kitplanes about seven years ago about doing the
wheels as you say.
Chris Bobka is back
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheels
Just to add another option that I don't think has ever been discussed.
We have a guy on our field with a pair of wire wheels made from a pair
of 6.00x6 wheels, with brakes, where he drilled through the wheel bead
for the spokes and used a motorcycle rim (I assume he had Buchanan's
make the spokes) (for what it's worth, Buchanan's charged me $80 per
wheel to make new spokes for my wire wheels). They look surprisingly
good.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
Hurray!!!!
Christian Bobka wrote:
>
>Gene,
>
>there is an article in kitplanes about seven years ago about doing the
>wheels as you say.
>
>Chris Bobka is back
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene
>Rambo
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheels
>
>
>Just to add another option that I don't think has ever been discussed.
>We have a guy on our field with a pair of wire wheels made from a pair
>of 6.00x6 wheels, with brakes, where he drilled through the wheel bead
>for the spokes and used a motorcycle rim (I assume he had Buchanan's
>make the spokes) (for what it's worth, Buchanan's charged me $80 per
>wheel to make new spokes for my wire wheels). They look surprisingly
>good.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: weldwood, Pro-Bond, etc. |
In the process of getting my fuselage & tail wood (from R.A.W.- now
deceased!?), I found out about Excel Structan -- a gel polyurethane that's
been in Europe for the past 12 years -- check out www.excelglue.com --
the Structan page has the list of tech features -- it's the only adhesive
that I've seen that lists "light aircraft" as one of the product uses.
The supplier is in Corky's neck of the woods -- AmBel Corp. in Cottonport,
lA I've had a good talk with Sammy Mayeux about the Structan -- he even
sent me a 100cc tube to try out -- so far I have tried only a 1/2 dozen
samples -- none of them failed on the glue line.
I can see using this for the fuselage structure -- were you can put up with
a bit of foaming at the joint edges -- I think that T-88 is a better choice
for things like ribs, etc where it can also work as sealer (like the back
side of the rib gussets! ;-) Only negatives are the 10 month shelf life
(part of the reason the Sammy is the only dealer) and that it comes in 10.4
oz caulking gun cartridge size (my sample definitely wasn't printed in
english! ;-)
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kip & Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: weldwood
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > don't forget weldwood, which no one should have a quarrel with.
> >
>
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >
> > Weldwood is FAA approved, it is available locally & it can be made up
> >in small batches, if kept dry it has a long shelf life
> > I used it on my ribs.
>
> I'm familiar with weldwood, too. It and powdered hide glue (definitely NOT
> FAA approved!) were staples in the piano-repair business 25 years ago. We
> used to use weldwood to make veneer repairs on pianos we were restoring.
> It's nice, easy glue to work with, but I prefer something that is
> waterproof for aircraft applications. That's why I was intrigued by the
> Pro-Bond stuff as a 1-part waterproof glue, but I guess it'll mostly get
> used for honeydo projects :).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> 426 Schneider St. SE
> North Canton, OH 44720
> (330) 494-1775
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Door in fuselage |
John,
Congratulations on getting your medical signed off. I'll be in Utah in
September, if you have your Piet in the air by then, I sure like to come the
extra few miles and see her fly. At any rate, maybe come by anyway just to
meet you and say howdy to you and the wife. Great Job!!!
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
ArrowBear Lake Ca.
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Door in fuselage
>
> Gary,
>
> I have just dropped in the mail to you a copy of a page from the old
> Buckeye Pietenpol newletter showing how one builder installed a door in
> the front cockpit of his steel tube Piet. When I decided to put a door
> in my plane which is an original wooden fuselage, I used this general
> layout to move the loads arount the door.
>
> If I might make an editorial comment here, normally you would be better
> off to follow the original plans and not change them at all unless there
> is a real need to do so. In my case, I wanted to allow for easy access
> to the front cockpit for my wife as we are both in our 70s and she has a
> knee problem. However, you should realize that the torsional rigidity
> of the fuselage is compromised slightly, and weight and complexity are
> added. I did a quick stress analysis of the layout and believe it is
> safe, but unnecessary unless you really have to.
>
> John Dilatush NX114D, "Just got medical back after my heart bypass 2
> years ago, wonderful feeling!"
> Salida Colorado
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mixing Epoxy |
Ted,
I never considered that wieght aspect of it before. Does the hardner
wiegh more or the resin? If they are the same, would'nrt the ratio remain
the same? Thanks for bringing that to our attention.
Doug B.
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
ArrowBear Lake Ca.
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
----- Original Message -----
From: ws133b341 <ws133b341(at)cox.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mixing Epoxy
>
> Doug Blackburn has a good idea in using a digital scale to get accurate
> measurements when mixing epoxy. Those using T-88 should remember,
> however, that while the correct resin-to-hardener proportion is 1:1 by
> volume, it is 1:0.83 by weight.
>
> Ted Tuckerman
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
I'm not understanding your question about the engine downthrust angle. Are
you questioning why it is the angle it is or why is it even there in the
first place?
That downthrust helps you on not having to step on alot of right rudder in
climb by reducing the result of P-factor. Also helps in not having to push
the stick real hard when you slam the throttle forward from slow or cruise
flight. You may even have a touch of right thrust in there as well.
Why yours is 5 degrees is a question for an aero engineer.
DJ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Deep thoughts
Ed,
Tomorrow I will add washers between the lower engine rubbers and mount until
I reach 3 or 3 1/2. Maybe by then one of those engineer types will come
forward with some aeronautical theories. Glad we don't have any Texas Aggies
building Piets. Might be flying backwards. All in fun.
Corky an LSU Tiger in La but I didn't study Engineering but can play a hell
of a Tuba.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | COZYPILOT(at)aol.com |
Chris--Welcome Back!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Tuckerman" <ws133b341(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mixing Epoxy |
Doug:
The T-88 resin is a bit heavier (has a higher specific gravity.) For more
info, you can view the technical data sheet and Material Safety Data Sheet
(MSDS) at the manufacturer's web site: www.systemthree.com
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mixing Epoxy
>
> Ted,
> I never considered that wieght aspect of it before. Does the hardner
> wiegh more or the resin? If they are the same, would'nrt the ratio remain
> the same? Thanks for bringing that to our attention.
>
> Doug B.
>
>
> Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
> ArrowBear Lake Ca.
> Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ws133b341 <ws133b341(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mixing Epoxy
>
>
> >
> > Doug Blackburn has a good idea in using a digital scale to get accurate
> > measurements when mixing epoxy. Those using T-88 should remember,
> > however, that while the correct resin-to-hardener proportion is 1:1 by
> > volume, it is 1:0.83 by weight.
> >
> > Ted Tuckerman
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear |
>
>Kip,
>
>If you're referring to the old Goodyear mechanical brakes, you'll want
>to be careful. They work great as long as adjusted properly, but the
>rotor rides on splines inside the hub, contained by weird little springs
>and securing metal "buttons". You have to keep up with spring breakage
>and button loss which happens and these parts are hard to find and
>expensive. If you can find a supply reasonably, stock up and have at
>it, I have no complaints with the braking performance. But if you loose
>more than two buttons by being neglectful, the rotor can ride out of the
>hub and jam, which will destroy your hub.
>
>Larry
Larry,
I'm not sure, but I think this is what I have; and what you are describing
is what I thought I had heard about. The inside of the hub has teeth (like
a gear) all the way around inside. Forrest Barber (our local FBO, Chapter
tech counselor & the national Taylorcraft guru) looked them over & said he
had several sets of brakes around the airport from back when the brake
design was changed (?). I'll ask him next time I'm out there, but thanks
for the heads up.
Cheers!
Kip
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear |
In a message dated 03/13/2002 6:46:00 PM Central Standard Time,
llneal2(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< Motorcycle wheels can handle reasonable
side loads, sidecar people have done this for years, >>
Larry..Every sidecar wire wheel I have seen is made like the aviation wire
wheels of the twenties which were designed specifically to take side loads.
Next time you see one, note that the spokes are not attached to the rim on
the centerline as are motorcycle wheels, but rather are positioned outboard
of centerline and have wider hubs. On the old Harleys (like my old 1935 VL-74
with sidecar), the main wheels were conventional but the sidecar wheel, which
can be subjected to severe side loads on left turns was built as mentioned.
My 2 cents. Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear |
See "Custom Planes" April 2002 Nice article on Piets. The featured Piet is
on tall wheels and Cub style gear. I talked to a Corvair Powered Piet driver
at Brodhead. (forget the year and his name, Silver/Blk with turned engine
cowling and cast "Aircamper" valve covers) He had the misfortune of a forced
landing in a bean feild on that Saturday. He re-started and took off from
the field. I wonder if that would have been possible with small wheels or
with tall wheels and a straight axle. We debated the issue at length around
the campfire and didn't come to a conclusion
other than it is mostly a matter of taste.
J Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
Subject: Pietenpol-List: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear
anyone sen motorcycle wire wheels on a J-3 style gear instead of straight
axle?
I've got a J-3 gear with 1.25" axle and am trying to find an easy solution
to putting on 18" motorcycle wheels.
ideas appreciated.
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Losing Chris Bobka |
Some time ago when Kip asked about
glues and resorcinal came up I assumed
we were talking about 2 part weld wood
res. Thats the one recognized as the be all
and end all of waterproof glues before
epoxies and its structural qualities are well
proven. It's strength is not affected by
tempurature as much as epoxy which loses
50% of its strength around 170 to 180 degrees
F depending on the formulation. This
could be a concern for those of you in warmer
climes. There's quite a variation depending
on the colour you've chosen. There's an
article on this somewhere but I can't find it.
There's too many mags around here! I
need a seceratary to make me an overall
index. Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Losing Chris Bobka
>
> Kip Gardner pointed out:
>
> > What I was referring to is the powdered, 1-part 'plastic resin glue'
that
> > is also called 'Weldwod Glue' (I think this is what Gene had in mind
too).
>
> Of course. I should have realized.
>
> Leaves me wondering whether I've misjudged that friend who uses
> "Weldwood." Still, he does endorse polyurethanes...
>
> Owen
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear |
Vortex generators? Check out this
www.dimpletape.com Thats
www dot dimpletape dot com-just
in case the above didn't go through. Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kip & Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear
>
> >
> >
> >DJ,
> >
> >You basically want the wing to stall just as the airplane reaches its
> >3-point attitude. Most airfoils stall at an angle of attack of around 15
> >degrees., so if you can keep the angle of attack at that or less, it
should
> >be OK. Remember that the wing has an angle of incidence of 2 degrees (at
> >least on a Piet - I don't know what Grega uses), so if the longeron is at
11
> >degrees , the angle of attack is 11+2=13 degrees.
> >
> >Many planes, including my Cessna 140, are not quite stalled at the 3
point
> >position (Champs are that way as well). This was probably done as much
as
> >anything to provide better visibility over the nose on the ground.
However,
> >I learned to fly taildraggers in a J-3 Cub, which is fully stalled in the
> >3-pont attitude, and find it frustrating to try to get a good three point
> >fully stalled landing in my 140. I usually end up landing tailwheel
first,
> >which then rapidly decreases the angle of attack and available lift and
the
> >whole airplane comes down with a mighty "Whump" on the main gear.
> >
> >It is possible to make nice smooth landings in planes with low deck
angles,
> >but they can't be landed as slowly as they could if they had taller main
> >gear.
> >
> >If the main gear is too tall, the opposite problem occurs, and the plane
is
> >always landed on the main gear, and then the tailwheel will drop. If you
> >try to make a three point landing, the wing will stall before you get the
> >tail low enough, and if your mains aren't already on the ground, it will
> >fall out of the sky.
> >
> >
> >Jack
>
> Guys,
>
> 18" wheels, cub gear & vortex generators on the wing, maybe? :). Wonder
> what the stall speed would be?
>
> Cheers!
>
> Kip
>
> 426 Schneider St. SE
> North Canton, OH 44720
> (330) 494-1775
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Wire wheels vs. "donut wheels" |
Pieters,
Since the Pietenpol is a "pasture plane", wouldn't you think that it
should have the larger wire wheels that are better for cow pies and
gopher holes?
John Dilatush,
Salida, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Deep thoughts |
Bernard was asked about this and his explanation
was that it increased the climb performance as
the "A" horsepower is low and the thrust line
was then closer to the true direction of the
aircraft through the air.
These sound like nice side effects though. Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Deep thoughts
>
> I'm not understanding your question about the engine downthrust angle.
Are
> you questioning why it is the angle it is or why is it even there in the
> first place?
>
> That downthrust helps you on not having to step on alot of right rudder in
> climb by reducing the result of P-factor. Also helps in not having to
push
> the stick real hard when you slam the throttle forward from slow or cruise
> flight. You may even have a touch of right thrust in there as well.
>
> Why yours is 5 degrees is a question for an aero engineer.
>
> DJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Isablcorky(at)aol.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Deep thoughts
>
>
> Ed,
> Tomorrow I will add washers between the lower engine rubbers and mount
until
> I reach 3 or 3 1/2. Maybe by then one of those engineer types will come
> forward with some aeronautical theories. Glad we don't have any Texas
Aggies
> building Piets. Might be flying backwards. All in fun.
> Corky an LSU Tiger in La but I didn't study Engineering but can play a
hell
> of a Tuba.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Here's something you hub guys(wheel and prop)
might want to check out.
www.mousebar.com Clif in liquid sunshine(Vancouver)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Here's another thought for those considering
covered wheels. Since the insides are not
going to be visible what about using those
modern cast motor cycle wheels. would
they not have more strength to resist the
side loads we're concerned with?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Oops! when you get there click on the
"Aluminum site" picture at the top left
corner.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear |
airplane wire wheel spokes are attached to the centerline of the rim.
----- Original Message -----
From: <DonanClara(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear
>
> In a message dated 03/13/2002 6:46:00 PM Central Standard Time,
> llneal2(at)earthlink.net writes:
>
> << Motorcycle wheels can handle reasonable
> side loads, sidecar people have done this for years, >>
> Larry..Every sidecar wire wheel I have seen is made like the aviation wire
> wheels of the twenties which were designed specifically to take side
loads.
> Next time you see one, note that the spokes are not attached to the rim on
> the centerline as are motorcycle wheels, but rather are positioned
outboard
> of centerline and have wider hubs. On the old Harleys (like my old 1935
VL-74
> with sidecar), the main wheels were conventional but the sidecar wheel,
which
> can be subjected to severe side loads on left turns was built as
mentioned.
> My 2 cents. Don
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear |
tall wheels if the ground was firm but bumpy . . . small, fat tires if the
ground was soft. Big wheels are made for rolling over uneven ground but are
not wirth a d*** on soft ground.
----- Original Message -----
From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear
>
> See "Custom Planes" April 2002 Nice article on Piets. The featured Piet is
> on tall wheels and Cub style gear. I talked to a Corvair Powered Piet
driver
> at Brodhead. (forget the year and his name, Silver/Blk with turned engine
> cowling and cast "Aircamper" valve covers) He had the misfortune of a
forced
> landing in a bean feild on that Saturday. He re-started and took off from
> the field. I wonder if that would have been possible with small wheels or
> with tall wheels and a straight axle. We debated the issue at length
around
> the campfire and didn't come to a conclusion
> other than it is mostly a matter of taste.
> J Mc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear
>
>
> anyone sen motorcycle wire wheels on a J-3 style gear instead of straight
> axle?
>
> I've got a J-3 gear with 1.25" axle and am trying to find an easy solution
> to putting on 18" motorcycle wheels.
>
> ideas appreciated.
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
Thanks for this link and the suggestion about using the scale. My wife has
a Weight Watchers digital scale, so guess where that dust collector is going
to be now?
Kent Hallsten
Oklahoma City
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MORGAN HETRICK" <morgan(at)heifercreek.com> |
What about gliding the airplane at cruise speed (engine idle) and rig
for straight
flight and then shim engine mounts to rig power on flight?
Morgan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear |
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear
tall wheels if the ground was firm but bumpy . . . small, fat tires if
the
ground was soft. Big wheels are made for rolling over uneven ground
but are
not wirth a d*** on soft ground.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
also big wheels roll forever on concrete, and make it more difficult
to mount the cockpit because the airplane is higher.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | downthrust, gear choice, tire pressure |
Corky---Your downthrust sounds like more than what is needed for the Cont.
engine so a few
washers under your lower motor mount bushings would help. Providing you
have long enough bolts.
I tried to build in about 1 1/2 to 2 deg of downthrust in my mount but no
such luck. I think I have
zero downthrust even with washers or at best 1/2 degree but she flies
fine. I would like to have a bit
more, but so be it. If you look at most any plane---a Jenny especially,
even a Cherokee, you'll note
if you view it from the side that the prop isn't straight up and
down. Canted a bit forward at the top tip.
Besides the looks, the split axle gear on any plane is prone to alignment
issues. One tire pointing
toe in or out opposed to the other because of fittings being out of line or
such can make a plane a
mess to handle. Tony B. shows guides for checking the parallelism of your
gear assy....and it would be
great to jig that all up before you make the final welds so your first
landing is a happy one. Besides being
a total nut over the wire wheels and straight axle, the straight axle has
no alignment problems. Just a straight
pipe of 4130. The straight axle Piets land true every time. I am totally
impressed by how easy the plane
handles even on pavement when tracking. (I'm the weakest link though
there:) The split axle/ J-3 gear and
tires are just fine though too---you just gotta make sure both wheels track
in the same direction when you
are done fabricating and assembling.
Mike B. and Gene R. are correct on the tall tires. They do roll alot on
pavement but this is also a function of
tire pressure. Just a few pound too much in mine and she bounces more,
rolls more, and rides rougher.
Too little pressure and you run the risk on touchdown of shearing off your
tire stem if the tires 'slips' a bit
over the rim.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: downthrust, gear choice, tire pressure |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: downthrust, gear choice, tire pressure
>
> Corky---Your downthrust sounds like more than what is needed for the Cont.
> engine so a few
> washers under your lower motor mount bushings would help. Providing you
> have long enough bolts.
> I tried to build in about 1 1/2 to 2 deg of downthrust in my mount but no
> such luck. I think I have
> zero downthrust even with washers or at best 1/2 degree but she flies
> fine. I would like to have a bit
> more, but so be it. If you look at most any plane---a Jenny especially,
> even a Cherokee, you'll note
> if you view it from the side that the prop isn't straight up and
> down. Canted a bit forward at the top tip.
>
> Besides the looks, the split axle gear on any plane is prone to alignment
> issues. One tire pointing
> toe in or out opposed to the other because of fittings being out of line
or
> such can make a plane a
> mess to handle. Tony B. shows guides for checking the parallelism of your
> gear assy....and it would be
> great to jig that all up before you make the final welds so your first
> landing is a happy one. Besides being
> a total nut over the wire wheels and straight axle, the straight axle has
> no alignment problems. Just a straight
> pipe of 4130. The straight axle Piets land true every time. I am totally
> impressed by how easy the plane
> handles even on pavement when tracking. (I'm the weakest link though
> there:) The split axle/ J-3 gear and
> tires are just fine though too---you just gotta make sure both wheels
track
> in the same direction when you
> are done fabricating and assembling.
>
> Mike B. and Gene R. are correct on the tall tires. They do roll alot on
> pavement but this is also a function of
> tire pressure. Just a few pound too much in mine and she bounces more,
> rolls more, and rides rougher.
> Too little pressure and you run the risk on touchdown of shearing off your
> tire stem if the tires 'slips' a bit
> over the rim.
>
> Mike C.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mike,
You forgot to mention that the big wire wheels are also great for cow pies
and gopher holes!
John
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
Hey guys..got to thinking about all those wire wheel and deck angle
postings. Curiosity took over. Out came the tape measure and, for what it's
worth, here's how my Piet shapes up.
Basics: Long fuselage, straight axle, wood gear, Buchanan 21" Sun Alloy wire
wheels, 3" tailwheel.
Measurements: Overall height of wheels with tires - 27"
Grnd. to lower longerons @ main axle - 27"
Grnd. to lower longerons @ tailwheel - 12"
Main axle to T/W axle - 153"
Deck angle- top longeron, relative to ground - 10 degrees
Now the bigee..Height to top of rear cockpit longeron-40"
This 5'-7" pilot's inseam -32"
Effort to hoist 78 year old leg that 8" difference...well, you get the
picture !...but I can do it !
If you ain't limber guys, you best stick to those short fuselages and
itty-bitty wheels :) :)
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: aircraft glue |
In a recent post of mine I stated that weldwood glue was FAA approved.
One of the listers, in a mild rebuke, stated that it was not FAA
approved.
Below is an EAA tech response to my question concerning FAA approved
glues. At the time I was building, 1982 - 1986, it was approved
Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam )
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mike,
As the FAA guidance is currently written, the only adhesive that's
definitely approved for type certificated (TC) aircraft is Recorcinol.
Older versions of FAA Advisory Circular AC 43.13 also indicated that
Weldwood was an approved adhesive, but the current version of the AC
(43.13-1B) appears to indicate that Weldwood is not acceptable.
However, there is some vagueness in the wording of the AC, and some IAs
and FAA inspectors continue to approve Weldwood.
For experimental aircraft, you are not required to use FAA approved
adhesives, so there would not be an issue with Weldwood.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol lift struts and center section geometry... |
In a message dated 3/11/02 11:19:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
grhans@cable-lynx.net writes:
<< A compromise which added weight, I guess. But my
airplane is solid with no hint of being flimsy, possibly because
of the stiffer rig with jury struts (not mounted at the midpoint of
the lift strut length). Nevertheless, at 630 lbs. empty, it still isn't
exceptionally heavy. >>
Sounds like you made the right decision along the way in building.
Mind telling us what you did to keep the empty weight this low ?
-dennis the Menace
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: aircraft glue |
The new "improved" 43.13 sucks. It leaves out lots of things simply because
the FAA thinks no one knows how to use the methods anymore, the FAA
certainly doesn't. Plastic resin glue has always been, and still is,
approved whether the FAA person who wrote the new 43.13 knows it or not.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: aircraft glue
>
> In a recent post of mine I stated that weldwood glue was FAA approved.
> One of the listers, in a mild rebuke, stated that it was not FAA
> approved.
> Below is an EAA tech response to my question concerning FAA approved
> glues. At the time I was building, 1982 - 1986, it was approved
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam )
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> Mike,
>
> As the FAA guidance is currently written, the only adhesive that's
> definitely approved for type certificated (TC) aircraft is Recorcinol.
> Older versions of FAA Advisory Circular AC 43.13 also indicated that
> Weldwood was an approved adhesive, but the current version of the AC
> (43.13-1B) appears to indicate that Weldwood is not acceptable.
> However, there is some vagueness in the wording of the AC, and some IAs
> and FAA inspectors continue to approve Weldwood.
>
> For experimental aircraft, you are not required to use FAA approved
> adhesives, so there would not be an issue with Weldwood.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Door in fuselage |
I have two doors in my GN-1. I can't imagine getting people in and out of a
Piet without a passenger door. I am building a Piet and you can bet it will
have a door. I can tell you that in my early days of learning to land the
plane I pushed it to its limit on stesses. Never once did I see any give in
the fuselage because of the doors.
Ted Brousseau
Naples FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Door in fuselage
>
> Gary,
>
> I have just dropped in the mail to you a copy of a page from the old
> Buckeye Pietenpol newletter showing how one builder installed a door in
> the front cockpit of his steel tube Piet. When I decided to put a door
> in my plane which is an original wooden fuselage, I used this general
> layout to move the loads arount the door.
>
> If I might make an editorial comment here, normally you would be better
> off to follow the original plans and not change them at all unless there
> is a real need to do so. In my case, I wanted to allow for easy access
> to the front cockpit for my wife as we are both in our 70s and she has a
> knee problem. However, you should realize that the torsional rigidity
> of the fuselage is compromised slightly, and weight and complexity are
> added. I did a quick stress analysis of the layout and believe it is
> safe, but unnecessary unless you really have to.
>
> John Dilatush NX114D, "Just got medical back after my heart bypass 2
> years ago, wonderful feeling!"
> Salida Colorado
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
I just started covering some of my Piet. I bought the Dacron but balked at
buying the reinforcing tape just yet. Without doing exact math it looks
like one would spend as much $ for the dacron as the reinforcing tape. Yet
the tape only amounts to about 5% of the area. Am I missing something? Is
there a source for reasonably priced tape?
Thanks, Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Av gas in out board |
This isn't exactly a Piet question but I can't imagine another group of
people who would have the answer.
Is there anything adverse about using av gas in an old 6hp outboard?
Thanks,
Ted Brousseau
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Door in fuselage |
----- Original Message -----
From: "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Door in fuselage
>
> John,
> Congratulations on getting your medical signed off. I'll be in Utah in
> September, if you have your Piet in the air by then, I sure like to come
the
> extra few miles and see her fly. At any rate, maybe come by anyway just to
> meet you and say howdy to you and the wife. Great Job!!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Doug,
Sure, come on by! We are going to the Pacific Northwest and Alaska sometime
in September so be sure to call first to be sure we are at home. Otherwise
we'll turn down the blankets and put a candle in the window for you and your
family!
John
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
> ArrowBear Lake Ca.
> Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Dilatush <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
> To: Gary McNeel, Jr.
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Door in fuselage
>
>
> >
> > Gary,
> >
> > I have just dropped in the mail to you a copy of a page from the old
> > Buckeye Pietenpol newletter showing how one builder installed a door in
> > the front cockpit of his steel tube Piet. When I decided to put a door
> > in my plane which is an original wooden fuselage, I used this general
> > layout to move the loads arount the door.
> >
> > If I might make an editorial comment here, normally you would be better
> > off to follow the original plans and not change them at all unless there
> > is a real need to do so. In my case, I wanted to allow for easy access
> > to the front cockpit for my wife as we are both in our 70s and she has a
> > knee problem. However, you should realize that the torsional rigidity
> > of the fuselage is compromised slightly, and weight and complexity are
> > added. I did a quick stress analysis of the layout and believe it is
> > safe, but unnecessary unless you really have to.
> >
> > John Dilatush NX114D, "Just got medical back after my heart bypass 2
> > years ago, wonderful feeling!"
> > Salida Colorado
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NormDecou(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Found a fuselage-need advice |
Hi,
At our EAA meeting tonight our chapter president told me about a pietenpol
fuselage and maybe some accessories for sale locally. I know that some
outstanding projects have been built from partially completed projects. I am
going to look at this project. I would really appreciate any advice for what
to look for when examining someone's partially completed project before
buying it. I know to look for test pieces, ask what type of glue was used,
and to ask what type of material was used (home depot Vs Wicks or ACS). I am
sure that there are many more questions that I should ask and many more
things I should be looking at. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Again
Norm Decou
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol lift struts and center section geometry...and |
weight.
"Dennis the Menace" and others,
Originally, my Piet had an empty weight of 645 lbs. with a
Continental A 65 - 8 engine, a wooden propeller, Grade A
cotton cover with a hand-rubbed doped finish, a Scott 6" tail-
wheel, cowling of 0.032" aluminum (NO FIBREGLAS), no
upholstery (just a couple of lightweight seat cushions), ASI,
altimeter, tachometer, ball slip-skid indicator, oil pressure
gauge and oil temperature gauge.
Some 14 years later, the cotton fabric strength had diminshed
markedly (as cotton was prone to do) and I wanted to check
the structure, so it was stripped and gone over thoroughly
with the intention of removing even more weight, if possible.
A C85 - 8 engine was installed which added a few pounds
over the C65 - 8 and the only places I could save weight were
in the fabric cover and the tailwheel. Polyester fabric was sub-
stituted for the Grade A cotton and a minimum of dope was
used to provide a "serviceable" light plane finish (the original
was similar to the finish applied to the old Beechcraft Stagger-
wing biplanes!). A very light 3" caster wheel with its forks and
horn made from 1/8" 4130 steel, welded together, took the place
of the heavy Scott assembly. (BHP used a similar small, light
tailwheel on his last airplanes which was non-steerable---and
this inspired me, although mine is steerable via 3/32" cables
from the rudder pedals.)
Afterward, we weighed it and the dry empty weight was 630 lbs.
Since then, I have had custom seat and back cushions made,
but they are extremely light in weight. I would guess about 4 Lbs.
I believe I could save even more weight by using, say, 2.6 oz.
fabric with a fine weave. The polyester fabric I used is too heavy
at about 3.6 oz. and has a relatively coarse weave, requiring
more dope. It is so strong that I likely would never have to replace
it due to strength loss, but after over 17 years since recover I
would like to check the structure. Grade A cotton used to be the
standard for aircraft fabric, but was heavier than the synthetics
and deteriorated much more quickly.
If I were to build another Pietenpol, I could save even more weight,
but I doubt I could beat Brian Kenney's CF-AUK which has an EW
significantly under 600 lbs.!
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
Alberta, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol lift struts and center section geometry...and |
weight.
Oh yes, I forgot the compass in the equipment list I pro-
vided in the previous post.
If you can find one, use the smaller 2 1/4" dia. compass
instead of the 3 1/8" one. Saves ounces.
Graham Hansen (CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol lift struts and center section geometry...and |
w...
Graham,
Read this weight message and felt I'd like to comment. I weighed my airplane
yesterday. With wings off, feathers off I weighed all parts to include
instruments, venturis, oxy equipment, everything except Engine cowling and
cover and the weight is an amazing 504 lbs. I can't believe that cowling and
cover will weigh near a hundred pounds. I must have a set of buying scales
however I've checked my weight on them against others scales and I'm
satisfied they are correct.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Ted B. reinforcing tapes |
I tend to do EVERYTHING the old fashioned (slow/cheap) way so I cut much
of my own tapes. I used what would otherwise have been scrap fabric to cut whatever
width I needed, straight-cut or bias. I did run across an antique Singer
hand-cranked pinker along the way but found it harder to get a straight cut.
Just put the fabric on a flat surface, lay a long straight edge aligned with the
edge or at a 45, mark it with a pencil and cut it with pinking shears (or regular
shears and fray the edges).
Larry
ps. My straight axle, long fuse, "A" powered Piet weighed in at 570#!! In spite
of that, I'm going to have to poke new holes in my cockpit fairings and move
the wing aft 2".....Bummer!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol lift struts and center section geometry...and |
w...
Hi Corky,
Depending one the weight of fabric and what kind of finish you put on it, I
would estimate the weight of cover using PolyFiber 1.7 oz. fabric and their
finishing system to be somewhere around 30 lbs. Your cowling will probably
weigh around 10 lbs. At most you're going to add maybe 50 lbs with cowling
and cover to bring you up to 554 lbs. You done good, boy! I've weighed
mine as it sits so far and estimated the weight of all the remaining
components and I figure mine will come in somewhere right around 630 lbs.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol lift struts and center section
geometry...and w...
Graham,
Read this weight message and felt I'd like to comment. I weighed my airplane
yesterday. With wings off, feathers off I weighed all parts to include
instruments, venturis, oxy equipment, everything except Engine cowling and
cover and the weight is an amazing 504 lbs. I can't believe that cowling and
cover will weigh near a hundred pounds. I must have a set of buying scales
however I've checked my weight on them against others scales and I'm
satisfied they are correct.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Found a fuselage-need advice |
Hi Norm,
I'll give you the same advice I gave Kip Gardner before he bought his Piet
project. Take a steel tape measure with you when you go to inspect it. If
possible, take some plumb bobs, a chalk line and a good level. If the glue
joints are good and the lumber is acceptable, about the only thing that
could make it unworkable would be if it were out of alignment. If you have
the plans, take them with you and make some measurements to see how closely
the original builder followed the plans.
If the owner will let you (and I would be suspicious if he won't), snap a
chalk line from the center of the firewall crossmember to the center of the
tailpost and make measurements to see that each station is symmetrical about
the centerline. Better yet, if the fuselage can be positioned with the top
longerons level, snap a centerline on the floor and hang some plumb bobs
from the centerline of the top cross members and make sure that everything
is square and aligned properly. Check out Tony Bingelis' chapters on
alignment before going to inspect it.
If it is already on its gear, make a measurement with your steel tape from
the center of the tailpost to the end of each axle - the two measurements
should not vary by more than say, 1/4" (less variation is better. Ideally
they would read exactly the same). Also if it is on the gear, check and see
if the floor is level, and then check to see that the plane is level across
the top longerons.
Check to make sure that the places where you will have to mount the fittings
for the cabane struts are actually the same distance apart as the spars of
the wing (the one inch spars are on 28-3/4" centers - if you use 3/4" spars
as I did, the centers of the spars are 28-1/2" apart, keeping the inner
faces of the spars 27-3/4" apart).
Basically check anything you can think of that would throw the alignment
out. One reason that many homebuilt projects are abandoned and sold is that
the builder discovers that something is out of alignment and he then gets
discouraged, loses interest and sells the project. If the alignment is
badly off, there may be nothing that can be done to save the project. A
plane that is built with poor alignment will generally fly poorly - and may
even look noticeably "off".
If possible, acquire his builder's log for your own reference. Try to get
his invoices and receipts as well.
Good luck!
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
NormDecou(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Found a fuselage-need advice
Hi,
At our EAA meeting tonight our chapter president told me about a pietenpol
fuselage and maybe some accessories for sale locally. I know that some
outstanding projects have been built from partially completed projects. I
am
going to look at this project. I would really appreciate any advice for
what
to look for when examining someone's partially completed project before
buying it. I know to look for test pieces, ask what type of glue was used,
and to ask what type of material was used (home depot Vs Wicks or ACS). I
am
sure that there are many more questions that I should ask and many more
things I should be looking at. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Again
Norm Decou
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Av gas in out board |
----- Original Message -----
From: Ted Brousseau
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 9:17 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Av gas in out board
This isn't exactly a Piet question but I can't imagine another group
of
people who would have the answer.
Is there anything adverse about using av gas in an old 6hp outboard?
Thanks,
Ted Brousseau
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ted:
I have used av gas in my 6hp outboard & in my IO. No problems so
far. In fact, av gas has a much longer shelf life than auto gas.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | Wire wheels vs. "donut wheels" |
Yup!
J Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Dilatush
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire wheels vs. "donut wheels"
Pieters,
Since the Pietenpol is a "pasture plane", wouldn't you think that it
should have the larger wire wheels that are better for cow pies and
gopher holes?
John Dilatush,
Salida, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
| Subject: | Ted B. reinforcing tapes |
-----Original Message-----
From: LAWRENCE WILLIAMS
ps. My straight axle, long fuse, "A" powered Piet weighed in at 570#!!
Larry,
570 lbs. THATS GREAT!!!
Now aren't you glad you took my advise to have Arthur Anderson certify your
scales?
Skip;)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | A-65 basket case |
Hey everyone...There's a fellow in Miami( someone on the list posted his
ad) who took an A-65 off his Taylorcraft because his son nosed it over
during a run-up ( supposedly at 800 rpm,s, don't know if that's possible).It
was then totally disassembled and everything wrapped up. He has all logs,
two cylinders have 100 hours on them and the mags have 100 hours. It has
1100 hours since major overhaul. If the crank and cases check out good would
it be worth messing with and what would be a fair price for it.
Ed G.
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | A-65 basket case |
Hi Ed,
Is he going to have the crankshaft magnafluxed? That would be prudent after
a propstrike.
I'll tell you what I paid for mine, not that I got a great deal, but I think
it is probably about average. I paid $1500 for it, sight unseen, buying it
from an A&P who told me that when he disassembled it he found it to be in
"good shape", with the cylinders not showing much wear. At that time I
didn't have sufficent gages to measure it accurately in my own shop, so when
I got the engine I piled the cylinders, crankshaft, connecting rods, rocker
arms and gears into my Cessna 140 and flew the whole lot over to Burlington,
NC and took them to Triad Aviation and asked them to inspect the cylinders,
gears, and the crankshaft, and overhaul the connecting rods and the rocker
arms. After paying the $974, I got all the parts back with nice new "yellow
tags" on everything except the cylinders. The cylinders were right at the
service limits and they said by the time they honed them they would be out
of spec. El Reno Aviation will rebuild A65 cylinders, but they want about
$500 apiece to do it. I decided to bite the bullet and bought brand new
Millenium cylinders for $800 apiece, which included new valves, new pistons,
new rings, new piston pins and new rocker shafts, so everything in the top
end of the engine will be brand new except the rocker arms and the
connecting rods, which I had overhauled, magnafluxed and re-bushed. The
crankshaft also had to be ground down 0.010" undersized, which is allowable.
I still need to buy a new camshaft. The one that came with the engine has a
big chunk missing out of the front lobe, and one other lobe is badly worn.
So much for "good shape".
Anyway, getting your crankshaft inspected will cost you something. A new
crank is probably at least $1,000. If possible, I would have the owner get
the crank magnafluxed or not pay more than $1,000 for the engine if you've
got to get it inspected yourself.
What kind of mags does it have? If it has Slick mags, that would be worth
more than the old Bendix or (yuck!) Eisemann mags. Mine has Eisemanns and I
would like to swap them out for Slicks. Those Eisemann mags on my engine
weigh 5-1/2 lbs apiece! The Slicks are considerably lighter, and work
better.
Hope this helps.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Grentzer
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A-65 basket case
Hey everyone...There's a fellow in Miami( someone on the list posted his
ad) who took an A-65 off his Taylorcraft because his son nosed it over
during a run-up ( supposedly at 800 rpm,s, don't know if that's possible).It
was then totally disassembled and everything wrapped up. He has all logs,
two cylinders have 100 hours on them and the mags have 100 hours. It has
1100 hours since major overhaul. If the crank and cases check out good would
it be worth messing with and what would be a fair price for it.
Ed G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: aircraft glue |
Michael Brusilow quoted an EAA tech as saying:
> As the FAA guidance is currently written, the only adhesive that's
> definitely approved for type certificated (TC) aircraft is Recorcinol. ...
> However, there is some vagueness in the wording of the AC, and some IAs
> and FAA inspectors continue to approve Weldwood.
I read that section pretty carefully a while ago. The key section
passes the buck to other authorities, then qualifies it so much that
it hardly means anything. Here is the exact wording:
"(2) Adhesives meeting the requirements
of a Military Specification (Mil Spec), Aerospace
Material Specification (AMS), or Technical
Standard Order (TSO) for wooden aircraft
structures are satisfactory providing they
are found to be compatible with existing
structural materials in the aircraft and the fabrication
methods to be used in the repair."
Aside from that, resorcinols are specifically approved,
assuming you are a good enough woodworker to make
a close-fitting joint; urea-formaldehyde glues are singled
out as being obsolete; and epoxies are termed acceptable
"providing they meet the requirements of paragraph 1-4a,"
which distills down to the section quoted above. The
only other glue specifically mentioned is phenol-formaldehyde,
which is cited as being used in aircraft plywood and is said
not to be practical for use in structural repair.
All this appears to mean that you are on solid ground only
if you use resorcinol. Mil spec or one of the other standards
gives you some cover, but that business about "providing
they are found to be compatible" means "it's approved
until you use it and one of our yo-yos says it's not." Or
so it seems to me.
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
Ted,
I'm going with that 2.7 from Superflite 72 in width for $3.25 a yard. Am
ordering 36 yds. NOW on the tape issue. Most of my friends are in residence
and/or nursing homes with nothing to do after their meals, bath, shots etc
but look at the girls passing in the halls and sing MEMORIES. SO, I'll just
take them some pencil lined dacron with a pr of pinking shears and before
long I will have provided two important things. My tapes in various widths
and most important, the seventh cardinal principle of education,"a worthy use
of leisure time". Who knows, we just might get something started. A great
thing you can do for those infirmed is to let them know they are still needed
and provide them with some sort of productive activity.
DONT LET ANY FED READ THIS AS THEY MIGHT WANT TO IMPROVE ON IT. We all know
what would happen then.
Corky in La also trying to build as economically as possible.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
| Subject: | tenpol-List:Kent Hallsten article |
Pieters,
Sorry if this has already been mentioned on the list, and I just missed it.
Kent Hallsten's great story about growing up by Johnnycake airport that
first appeared on this list has been published in EAA's Experimenter March
2002 in Cy Galley's safety section.
Way to go! Kent. and Thanks Cy.
Skip Gadd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Kent Hallsten article |
I try not to waste space with kudo's, but this is a great example of why
this list is so good. And Yes, this was originally an off topic post,
but Kent's poetry is appropriate to any aviator. Many thanks to Kent
and Cy!
Larry
Gadd, Skip wrote:
>
>Pieters,
>Sorry if this has already been mentioned on the list, and I just missed it.
>Kent Hallsten's great story about growing up by Johnnycake airport that
>first appeared on this list has been published in EAA's Experimenter March
>2002 in Cy Galley's safety section.
>Way to go! Kent. and Thanks Cy.
>Skip Gadd
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
Question about wiring up my ignition switch: I'm using shielded P leads
(and a shielded ignition harness) so I can use a handheld radio if necessary
(like for my first flight). Do I need to run a separate ground wire to the
ground post on the ignition switch, or can I just terminate the braided
shields at the ground post on the switch and at the engine. Will that make
an effective ground? I hate to have to run more wires than necessary - they
add weight and work, and I'm very lazy.
Jack Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hallstenokc" <hallstenokc(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Kent Hallsten article |
Thanks for the nice comment Skip. And I want to say thanks to Cy Galley for getting
it out. In my life I never had anything published, it's pretty neat!
I just got my copy of the Experimenter in yesterday's mail, along with two
extra copies to pass around. My mother is visiting from Connecticut for a few
weeks, and she can't wait to pass the magazine around town when she returns!
Oh, in the story I mentioned I didn't get in trouble as a boy by taking airplane
rides without her permission. Well, I got in trouble last night ! I guess
I'll take her out to lunch now and smooth things over. See you all later.
Kent Hallsten
Oklahoma City
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)charter.net> |
Hi Corky,
Great idea to make your own tapes, although it can be a bit tedious. But if
your friends all have Alzheimer's then they won't remember it is tedious.
One suggestion: Use ballpoint pen instead of pencil to mark lines. Remember,
graphite in pencil lead is used as a lubricant. It can interfere with the
fill and topcoats. Ballpoint pen ink will not. Something I learned from Ray
Stits himself in the late 80s.
TakeCare,
-john-
>
> Ted,
> I'm going with that 2.7 from Superflite 72 in width for $3.25 a yard. Am
> ordering 36 yds. NOW on the tape issue. Most of my friends are in residence
> and/or nursing homes with nothing to do after their meals, bath, shots etc
> but look at the girls passing in the halls and sing MEMORIES. SO, I'll just
> take them some pencil lined dacron with a pr of pinking shears and before
> long I will have provided two important things. My tapes in various widths
> and most important, the seventh cardinal principle of education,"a worthy use
> of leisure time". Who knows, we just might get something started. A great
> thing you can do for those infirmed is to let them know they are still needed
> and provide them with some sort of productive activity.
> DONT LET ANY FED READ THIS AS THEY MIGHT WANT TO IMPROVE ON IT. We all know
> what would happen then.
>
> Corky in La also trying to build as economically as possible.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Kent Hallsten article |
Now you see what I am looking for... great human interest stories about the
little guy flying safely.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Neal" <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Kent Hallsten article
I try not to waste space with kudo's, but this is a great example of why
this list is so good. And Yes, this was originally an off topic post,
but Kent's poetry is appropriate to any aviator. Many thanks to Kent
and Cy!
Larry
Gadd, Skip wrote:
>
>Pieters,
>Sorry if this has already been mentioned on the list, and I just missed it.
>Kent Hallsten's great story about growing up by Johnnycake airport that
>first appeared on this list has been published in EAA's Experimenter March
>2002 in Cy Galley's safety section.
>Way to go! Kent. and Thanks Cy.
>Skip Gadd
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
Thanks for the reply John,
It's amazing how every little word or thought on this list is important like
my saying" a pencil line on the dacron". Your reply was very important to me
and others who could have made the error through ignorance.
I failed to mention that 1.7 Superflite sells is only 67 in wide. The top
surface of the Piet wing requires a minimum of 68+ in order to get a good
overlap.
Corky in La just before the rains today
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Anderson" <piet4ken(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
Also if you use a chalk line only use blue chalk for same reason
Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hofmann" <jhofmann(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
> Hi Corky,
>
> Great idea to make your own tapes, although it can be a bit tedious. But
if
> your friends all have Alzheimer's then they won't remember it is tedious.
>
> One suggestion: Use ballpoint pen instead of pencil to mark lines.
Remember,
> graphite in pencil lead is used as a lubricant. It can interfere with the
> fill and topcoats. Ballpoint pen ink will not. Something I learned from
Ray
> Stits himself in the late 80s.
>
> TakeCare,
> -john-
>
>
> >
> > Ted,
> > I'm going with that 2.7 from Superflite 72 in width for $3.25 a yard. Am
> > ordering 36 yds. NOW on the tape issue. Most of my friends are in
residence
> > and/or nursing homes with nothing to do after their meals, bath, shots
etc
> > but look at the girls passing in the halls and sing MEMORIES. SO, I'll
just
> > take them some pencil lined dacron with a pr of pinking shears and
before
> > long I will have provided two important things. My tapes in various
widths
> > and most important, the seventh cardinal principle of education,"a
worthy use
> > of leisure time". Who knows, we just might get something started. A
great
> > thing you can do for those infirmed is to let them know they are still
needed
> > and provide them with some sort of productive activity.
> > DONT LET ANY FED READ THIS AS THEY MIGHT WANT TO IMPROVE ON IT. We all
know
> > what would happen then.
> >
> > Corky in La also trying to build as economically as possible.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craigo <craigwilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
HOWEVER - the Polyfiber manula (if that is the process used) repeatedly stresses
to use PENCIL only.
Craig
On Fri, 15 March 2002, "Ken Anderson" wrote:
> Also if you use a chalk line only use blue chalk for same reason
>
> Ken
> >
> > Hi Corky,
> > One suggestion: Use ballpoint pen instead of pencil to mark lines.
> Remember,
> > graphite in pencil lead is used as a lubricant. It can interfere with the
> > fill and topcoats. Ballpoint pen ink will not. Something I learned from
> Ray
> > Stits himself in the late 80s.
> >
> > TakeCare,
> > -john-
Craig
Lake Worth, FL
Bakeng Duce NX96CW
PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart.
http://www.peoplepc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)charter.net> |
My manual (not the most current one) the video and Ray told me himself to
use blue ballpoint pen. Very strange.
>
> HOWEVER - the Polyfiber manula (if that is the process used) repeatedly
> stresses to use PENCIL only.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
How about a blue colored pencil then, just to make everyone happy.
I used blue chalk to line up my stiches by running a spanwise chalk
line. I didn't need much other marking, but avoided using ink of any
kind since I suspected it might bleed through. I think I used some
regular pencil markings however without a problem.
Steve E
PS. Trying to keep up with the list a bit more... You guys put up a ton
of email in a day! Hope building is going at the same pace. :)
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hofmann [mailto:jhofmann(at)charter.net]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
My manual (not the most current one) the video and Ray told me himself
to
use blue ballpoint pen. Very strange.
>
> HOWEVER - the Polyfiber manula (if that is the process used)
repeatedly
> stresses to use PENCIL only.
>
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)charter.net> |
After further review, it looks like the newer Polyfiber materials are saying
pencil. They used to say pen. I wonder what initiated the change? Any takers
on this? My 199x version of the manual states pen.
-john-
>
> My manual (not the most current one) the video and Ray told me himself to
> use blue ballpoint pen. Very strange.
>
>
>>
>> HOWEVER - the Polyfiber manula (if that is the process used) repeatedly
>> stresses to use PENCIL only.
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Kent Hallsten article |
Kent,
Those extra copies are for your parole officer and mother-in-law so they
know you have been staying out of trouble!
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "hallstenokc" <hallstenokc(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Kent Hallsten article
Thanks for the nice comment Skip. And I want to say thanks to Cy Galley for
getting it out. In my life I never had anything published, it's pretty
neat!
I just got my copy of the Experimenter in yesterday's mail, along with
two extra copies to pass around. My mother is visiting from Connecticut for
a few weeks, and she can't wait to pass the magazine around town when she
returns! Oh, in the story I mentioned I didn't get in trouble as a boy by
taking airplane rides without her permission. Well, I got in trouble last
night ! I guess I'll take her out to lunch now and smooth things over. See
you all later.
Kent Hallsten
Oklahoma City
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
Did you use rib stitching on the tail feathers? I attended one of the
Poly-Fiber workshops last year and the instuctor told me rib stiching or
laceing was probably not needed on a Piet tail . Mark McKellar---- Original
Message -----
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
> How about a blue colored pencil then, just to make everyone happy.
>
> I used blue chalk to line up my stiches by running a spanwise chalk
> line. I didn't need much other marking, but avoided using ink of any
> kind since I suspected it might bleed through. I think I used some
> regular pencil markings however without a problem.
>
> Steve E
>
> PS. Trying to keep up with the list a bit more... You guys put up a ton
> of email in a day! Hope building is going at the same pace. :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Hofmann [mailto:jhofmann(at)charter.net]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
>
>
> My manual (not the most current one) the video and Ray told me himself
> to
> use blue ballpoint pen. Very strange.
>
>
>
> >
> > HOWEVER - the Polyfiber manula (if that is the process used)
> repeatedly
> > stresses to use PENCIL only.
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A-65 basket case |
Ed,
Try to find out whether it was turning a metal prop or a wooden one
when it nosed over.
The crankshaft wouldn't likely be damaged if it was ("was" is the
term here) a wooden prop. If it was a metal prop strike, there is a
real possibility of damage to the crankshaft and engine.
Magnafluxing the shaft, etc. before returning the engine to service is
a good idea, regardless.
Buying such an engine is a gamble. Let's hope you are lucky.
Graham Hansen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B F Dearinger" <mrclean(at)arkansas.net> |
Also remember that a 65 lyc has 145 cubic inches and a 65 -66 corvair has
164.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Neal" <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lycoming
>
> I have run across a Lycoming 65. As I have just bought two Corvair
> motors, this sorta figures..
> A literal basket case, disassembled, probably 98% complete. Includes
> carb, mags, prop and motor mount for $1500.
>
> I seem to remember this particular lycoming was a parts nightmare, any
> warnings before I aquire yet another pile of engine parts?
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
because ballpoint pen ink will bleed through ANYTHING. I cannot challenge
Ray Stits, but I wouldn't use ink of any kind.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
> After further review, it looks like the newer Polyfiber materials are
saying
> pencil. They used to say pen. I wonder what initiated the change? Any
takers
> on this? My 199x version of the manual states pen.
>
> -john-
>
> >
> > My manual (not the most current one) the video and Ray told me himself
to
> > use blue ballpoint pen. Very strange.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> HOWEVER - the Polyfiber manula (if that is the process used) repeatedly
> >> stresses to use PENCIL only.
> >>
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A-65 basket case |
I'm with the earlier person who responded, I do not think a Taylorcraft will
nose over at 800 rpm. I'm not sure you could get a T-Craft over at any RPM
unless it was rolling forward.
----- Original Message -----
From: Graham Hansen <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 basket case
<grhans@cable-lynx.net>
>
> Ed,
>
> Try to find out whether it was turning a metal prop or a wooden one
> when it nosed over.
>
> The crankshaft wouldn't likely be damaged if it was ("was" is the
> term here) a wooden prop. If it was a metal prop strike, there is a
> real possibility of damage to the crankshaft and engine.
>
> Magnafluxing the shaft, etc. before returning the engine to service is
> a good idea, regardless.
>
> Buying such an engine is a gamble. Let's hope you are lucky.
>
> Graham Hansen
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Wiring |
Yes, you should run a separate ground wire to the engine mount and another
one between the engine and the mount. It is a big joke around here that my
Travel Air mag switch will shock the pi** out of you on a mag check if you
are sweaty, a detail usually left out (wink) of the briefing of anyone I let
fly it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ignition Wiring
>
> Question about wiring up my ignition switch: I'm using shielded P leads
> (and a shielded ignition harness) so I can use a handheld radio if
necessary
> (like for my first flight). Do I need to run a separate ground wire to
the
> ground post on the ignition switch, or can I just terminate the braided
> shields at the ground post on the switch and at the engine. Will that
make
> an effective ground? I hate to have to run more wires than necessary -
they
> add weight and work, and I'm very lazy.
>
> Jack Phillips
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I did stitch both vertical and horizontal surfaces. Took an extra 30
minutes. I'd do it again....
Steve Eldredge
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark [mailto:markmc(at)bluebonnet.net]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
Did you use rib stitching on the tail feathers? I attended one of the
Poly-Fiber workshops last year and the instuctor told me rib stiching or
laceing was probably not needed on a Piet tail . Mark McKellar----
Original
Message -----
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
> How about a blue colored pencil then, just to make everyone happy.
>
> I used blue chalk to line up my stiches by running a spanwise chalk
> line. I didn't need much other marking, but avoided using ink of any
> kind since I suspected it might bleed through. I think I used some
> regular pencil markings however without a problem.
>
> Steve E
>
> PS. Trying to keep up with the list a bit more... You guys put up a
ton
> of email in a day! Hope building is going at the same pace. :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Hofmann [mailto:jhofmann(at)charter.net]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
>
>
> My manual (not the most current one) the video and Ray told me himself
> to
> use blue ballpoint pen. Very strange.
>
>
>
> >
> > HOWEVER - the Polyfiber manula (if that is the process used)
> repeatedly
> > stresses to use PENCIL only.
> >
>
>
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A-65 basket case |
>
>
> Hey everyone...There's a fellow in Miami( someone on the list posted his
>ad) who took an A-65 off his Taylorcraft because his son nosed it over
>during a run-up ( supposedly at 800 rpm,s, don't know if that's possible).
Only if he was doing about 30 mph for a run-up. Taylorcrafts have Shinn
brakes (don't hold real well). I have to stand on my heels to hold it
at 1700 on pavement.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A-65 basket case |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Heck, I bet you could barely get it rolling downhill on pavement and
bald tires at 800RPM.
Steve e
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo [mailto:rambog(at)erols.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 basket case
I'm with the earlier person who responded, I do not think a Taylorcraft
will
nose over at 800 rpm. I'm not sure you could get a T-Craft over at any
RPM
unless it was rolling forward.
----- Original Message -----
From: Graham Hansen <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 basket case
<grhans@cable-lynx.net>
>
> Ed,
>
> Try to find out whether it was turning a metal prop or a wooden one
> when it nosed over.
>
> The crankshaft wouldn't likely be damaged if it was ("was" is the
> term here) a wooden prop. If it was a metal prop strike, there is a
> real possibility of damage to the crankshaft and engine.
>
> Magnafluxing the shaft, etc. before returning the engine to service is
> a good idea, regardless.
>
> Buying such an engine is a gamble. Let's hope you are lucky.
>
> Graham Hansen
>
>
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
Problem magnified,
On the drawing of the cutting line, their eyes are probably so bad they
wouldn't even see it. On the blue line, chaulk or ball point, they are color
blind so I'll probably take the stuff over to the Jr. High and give our soul
children something to do instead of spending the day in the child care center
without some project.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
Thanks, Gene.
That was my gut feel anyway. Nothing ever seems to be done the easy way. I
assume the ground wire should be 16 to 18 gage, like the P leads.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ignition Wiring
Yes, you should run a separate ground wire to the engine mount and another
one between the engine and the mount. It is a big joke around here that my
Travel Air mag switch will shock the pi** out of you on a mag check if you
are sweaty, a detail usually left out (wink) of the briefing of anyone I let
fly it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
I can't believe you did rib lacing on the vert. and horizotal surfaces in
30 min? Mark----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
> I did stitch both vertical and horizontal surfaces. Took an extra 30
> minutes. I'd do it again....
>
> Steve Eldredge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark [mailto:markmc(at)bluebonnet.net]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
>
> Did you use rib stitching on the tail feathers? I attended one of the
> Poly-Fiber workshops last year and the instuctor told me rib stiching or
> laceing was probably not needed on a Piet tail . Mark McKellar----
> Original
> Message -----
> From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
>
> >
> > How about a blue colored pencil then, just to make everyone happy.
> >
> > I used blue chalk to line up my stiches by running a spanwise chalk
> > line. I didn't need much other marking, but avoided using ink of any
> > kind since I suspected it might bleed through. I think I used some
> > regular pencil markings however without a problem.
> >
> > Steve E
> >
> > PS. Trying to keep up with the list a bit more... You guys put up a
> ton
> > of email in a day! Hope building is going at the same pace. :)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Hofmann [mailto:jhofmann(at)charter.net]
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
> >
> >
> >
> > My manual (not the most current one) the video and Ray told me himself
> > to
> > use blue ballpoint pen. Very strange.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > HOWEVER - the Polyfiber manula (if that is the process used)
> > repeatedly
> > > stresses to use PENCIL only.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Builder's Meet & Fly-in! |
Attention Pietenpol list...
A group of us in the Dallas area are planning to get Piet builders and
flyers on the list together to meet, share ideas and have fun.
This would be a good time to meet up with a lot of the characters on the
list. Lurkers will also find this a great chance to get involved. We
are planning a bunch of fun stuff.
The location is Midway Airport (4T6), about 30minutes south of Dallas on
Saturday, June 1st. It will be in conjunction with an area pancake
breakfast so the fun will run from morning until late afternoon. There
should be lots of interesting aircraft as well as the much of the local
Piet squadron as we can coerce into attending. Several local list
notables will be in attendance and the call will also go out to all the
grand 'ol list legends now flying as well. Hey guys, are you listening?
Brodhead is only six weeks later so this is on the way ;-).
We will have a builders introduction meeting around noon and afterwards
will fire up the grill for hotdogs. After that there will be parts "show
and tell", swap meet and idea seminars. Anyone who would like to
discuss a topic is encouraged to form an afternoon discussion session.
A possible seminar on mags and ignition by a service center manager may
be held! Meet a homebuilder friendly DE that love's Pietenpols!!!
Parts swaps and sales are encouraged! I'll be bringing out my slightly
used rib jib to donate to the the first list member that needs it.
Bring your leftover stock and finished parts to donate, trade, sell or
show off. Anyone who can bring a torch and give a welding seminar will
win a ride on the Space Shuttle and a date with the Dallas Cowboys
Cheerleaders!
If you're now flying, bring your Pietenpol, GN-1, Cub or what have you.
All REAL aircraft are welcome, but we won't even mind if you come down
in your Citation ;-). Juan Martinez, resident great guy and airport
manager is filing waivers, so anyone without a transponder can be
squeaky clean.
Feel free to forward this message to any non-list Piet folks that you
know and please reply to me via direct email if you're interested!
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol lift struts and center section geometry...and |
w...
In a message dated 3/14/02 11:49:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
grhans@cable-lynx.net writes:
<< If I were to build another Pietenpol, I could save even more weight,
but I doubt I could beat Brian Kenney's CF-AUK which has an EW
significantly under 600 lbs.!
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
Alberta, Canada >>
Thank you for the reply. Sounds like you've had many years of great flying in
your Piet. Would love to see it some day.
People like you are a wealth of knowledge and I for one thank you for
sticking around on this list to answer mine and others neophyte questions.
Your a treasure !
-dennis the Menace
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Found a fuselage-need advice |
In a message dated 3/15/02 8:25:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jackphillips(at)earthlink.net writes:
<<
Basically check anything you can think of that would throw the alignment
out. One reason that many homebuilt projects are abandoned and sold is that
the builder discovers that something is out of alignment and he then gets
discouraged, loses interest and sells the project. If the alignment is
badly off, there may be nothing that can be done to save the project. A
plane that is built with poor alignment will generally fly poorly - and may
even look noticeably "off". >>
That brings up an interesting question. If there were such a fuselage built
that was out of alignment, what possibilities would you have to correct these
poor alignment ? Could some of the cross members be cut and glue joints
ground down and the two sides rejoined ? I guess it would depend on the
purchase price and how much new wood would cost. I just hope that when I get
to that point, I will be able to get everything straight before the glue
dries !
Plumb bobs and chalk line along with measureing tape sound like very cheap
insurance to get a square true airframe.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Phillips" <pphillips(at)kalama.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stick with the list guys......... |
Bert, most of the Automotive paint suppliers in my area also stock zinc
chromate. You might try your local supplier.
Phil Phillips
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stick with the list guys.........
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stick with the list guys.........
>
>
>
> >
> > Group----Despite all the distracting posts, pulling of legs,
> ad-infinitum,
> > ad-nauseum crap about the deep sea and far off lands that no one on this
> > list could really give a rats butt about, let's stick together, ok
>
> I agree with you, Mike. I'm still in.....
>
> Question of the day..... I need to paint some wing fittings, cabane
> struts, and other KEYparts. Some are unreachable for inspection. Is
there
> really any reason why I cant use a good quality automotive primer? Of
> course my plane will be hangared... I just HATE having to order Zinc
> Chromate..
> But if I have to I will.
>
> bert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: primer question.... Stick with the list guys......... |
Phil:
I made an executive decision. I found a good quality primer and final coat
(made by "Plasti-Kote"). Went with that. I'll report back in about 20
years - let ya'll know how it turned out :>)
BTW
I received an order from Aircraft Spruce today. They failed to pack an
item. I called them up, told them what was missing. They apologized and
told me the missing item was going out today. Nice folks up there in
Griffin, Ga.
FYI , If ya'll are going to Sun N Fun. Stop by the wood working workshops -
loated at show center. Lots of "Termites" like me, Don Hicks, Dick
Navratril, Mike Hattaway, Skip Gadd, Charlie Rubeck, and a whole bunch more
Piet-People there. Also, we always need volunteers, come on by and
participate! If you're interested, email me off-list.
Later, Bert (whose waiting on his first Grandbaby to check in this weekend)
Wooooohhhoooooo! Got me a front-seat partner now.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Phillips" <pphillips(at)kalama.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stick with the list guys.........
>
> Bert, most of the Automotive paint suppliers in my area also stock zinc
> chromate. You might try your local supplier.
>
> Phil Phillips
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stick with the list guys.........
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stick with the list guys.........
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Group----Despite all the distracting posts, pulling of legs,
> > ad-infinitum,
> > > ad-nauseum crap about the deep sea and far off lands that no one on
this
> > > list could really give a rats butt about, let's stick together, ok
> >
> > I agree with you, Mike. I'm still in.....
> >
> > Question of the day..... I need to paint some wing fittings, cabane
> > struts, and other KEYparts. Some are unreachable for inspection. Is
> there
> > really any reason why I cant use a good quality automotive primer? Of
> > course my plane will be hangared... I just HATE having to order Zinc
> > Chromate..
> > But if I have to I will.
> >
> > bert
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Found a fuselage-need advice |
!
> Plumb bobs and chalk line along with measureing tape
> sound like very cheap
> insurance to get a square true airframe.
I would think that It would have to be quite aways off
before it would hinder using, I didn't see any need
for a plumb bob and the only straight line I had was
the one I put down the center of the table, I put my
fuse sides upside down, equall distance on each side
of the line, starting from the firewall and moved
back, air nailing blocks to the table to keep the fuse
sides in at each measuring point. then using a framing
square to square it up from the table. I fastened a
piece of plywood to the firewall area that I had cut
absolutely square to keep the front(obviously) square.
Its nothing to get in a sweat about.
another thing that worked well, I had positioned the
fuse so that the tail post was right at the edge(end)
of the table, screwed a verticle saw guide onto the
end of the table, used my hand power saw and cut down
thru the tail post to make a matching joint where I
pulled the tail together, I used a handsaw and a belt
sander to finish up the joint. took about 15 minutes.
Del-wisconsin.
http://sports.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KenGailGriff" <kengg(at)texas.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Builder's Meet & Fly-in! |
Larry
This sounds great. Please let us know where we can find directions.
Ken, an Austin-based builder in the early stages, trying to learn enough to
start contributing and stop lurking.
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Builder's Meet & Fly-in!
>
> Attention Pietenpol list...
>
> A group of us in the Dallas area are planning to get Piet builders and
> flyers on the list together to meet, share ideas and have fun.
>
> This would be a good time to meet up with a lot of the characters on the
> list. Lurkers will also find this a great chance to get involved. We
> are planning a bunch of fun stuff.
>
> The location is Midway Airport (4T6), about 30minutes south of Dallas on
> Saturday, June 1st. It will be in conjunction with an area pancake
> breakfast so the fun will run from morning until late afternoon. There
> should be lots of interesting aircraft as well as the much of the local
> Piet squadron as we can coerce into attending. Several local list
> notables will be in attendance and the call will also go out to all the
> grand 'ol list legends now flying as well. Hey guys, are you listening?
> Brodhead is only six weeks later so this is on the way ;-).
>
> We will have a builders introduction meeting around noon and afterwards
> will fire up the grill for hotdogs. After that there will be parts "show
> and tell", swap meet and idea seminars. Anyone who would like to
> discuss a topic is encouraged to form an afternoon discussion session.
>
> A possible seminar on mags and ignition by a service center manager may
> be held! Meet a homebuilder friendly DE that love's Pietenpols!!!
> Parts swaps and sales are encouraged! I'll be bringing out my slightly
> used rib jib to donate to the the first list member that needs it.
> Bring your leftover stock and finished parts to donate, trade, sell or
> show off. Anyone who can bring a torch and give a welding seminar will
> win a ride on the Space Shuttle and a date with the Dallas Cowboys
> Cheerleaders!
>
> If you're now flying, bring your Pietenpol, GN-1, Cub or what have you.
> All REAL aircraft are welcome, but we won't even mind if you come down
> in your Citation ;-). Juan Martinez, resident great guy and airport
> manager is filing waivers, so anyone without a transponder can be
> squeaky clean.
>
> Feel free to forward this message to any non-list Piet folks that you
> know and please reply to me via direct email if you're interested!
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I tested the effects of MEK on Por-15 today. I took one of the dried
brushes I used a few weeks ago and tossed it in a cup of MEK.
No effect after an hour - the brush is still hard as a rock.
I guess no problem with covering chemicals peeling it of like other
non-epoxy primers.
Just and FYI - have a great evening
Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Builder's Meet & Fly-in! |
Larry,
I will be there in my GN-1. I have practiced touch and
go landings at Mid-Way and have actually used the
makeshift grass strip that runs next to the runway.
Great place to have such an event.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
----- Original Message -----
From: "KenGailGriff" <kengg(at)texas.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Builder's Meet & Fly-in!
>
> Larry
>
> This sounds great. Please let us know where we can find directions.
>
> Ken, an Austin-based builder in the early stages, trying to learn enough
to
> start contributing and stop lurking.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
> To: piet list
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Builder's Meet & Fly-in!
>
>
> >
> > Attention Pietenpol list...
> >
> > A group of us in the Dallas area are planning to get Piet builders and
> > flyers on the list together to meet, share ideas and have fun.
> >
> > This would be a good time to meet up with a lot of the characters on the
> > list. Lurkers will also find this a great chance to get involved. We
> > are planning a bunch of fun stuff.
> >
> > The location is Midway Airport (4T6), about 30minutes south of Dallas on
> > Saturday, June 1st. It will be in conjunction with an area pancake
> > breakfast so the fun will run from morning until late afternoon. There
> > should be lots of interesting aircraft as well as the much of the local
> > Piet squadron as we can coerce into attending. Several local list
> > notables will be in attendance and the call will also go out to all the
> > grand 'ol list legends now flying as well. Hey guys, are you listening?
> > Brodhead is only six weeks later so this is on the way ;-).
> >
> > We will have a builders introduction meeting around noon and afterwards
> > will fire up the grill for hotdogs. After that there will be parts "show
> > and tell", swap meet and idea seminars. Anyone who would like to
> > discuss a topic is encouraged to form an afternoon discussion session.
> >
> > A possible seminar on mags and ignition by a service center manager may
> > be held! Meet a homebuilder friendly DE that love's Pietenpols!!!
> > Parts swaps and sales are encouraged! I'll be bringing out my slightly
> > used rib jib to donate to the the first list member that needs it.
> > Bring your leftover stock and finished parts to donate, trade, sell or
> > show off. Anyone who can bring a torch and give a welding seminar will
> > win a ride on the Space Shuttle and a date with the Dallas Cowboys
> > Cheerleaders!
> >
> > If you're now flying, bring your Pietenpol, GN-1, Cub or what have you.
> > All REAL aircraft are welcome, but we won't even mind if you come down
> > in your Citation ;-). Juan Martinez, resident great guy and airport
> > manager is filing waivers, so anyone without a transponder can be
> > squeaky clean.
> >
> > Feel free to forward this message to any non-list Piet folks that you
> > know and please reply to me via direct email if you're interested!
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Wiring |
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
Hi Jack
Thats the way to do it. Use the shield to ground the switch and mag.
At the switch add a short piece of insulated wire to each shield.
Make good connection so you don't end up with a hot mag.
Dale Mpls
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Builder's Meet & Fly-in! |
Mike,
Hurray Mike! The fleet begins to assemble... this is going to be great!
My Piet's still in "boat" stage, but I'll be bringing the Aeronca Champ
and will be happy to take anyone up and demonstrate tailwheel technique.
We'll just open the windows and label her the "Piet Simulator".
Everyone please keep an eye out for Piets, GN's and St. Crois in the
Southwest to invite. The emails are starting to come in so the interest
is definitely there. For all of you that have asked, I'll post some
directions soon.
Larry
(June 1st, Midway Airport 4T6, Midlothian, "Brodhead West in Texas")
Mike King wrote:
>
>Larry,
>
>I will be there in my GN-1. I have practiced touch and
>go landings at Mid-Way and have actually used the
>makeshift grass strip that runs next to the runway.
>
>Great place to have such an event.
>
>Mike King
>GN-1
>77MK
>Dallas
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "KenGailGriff" <kengg(at)texas.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Builder's Meet & Fly-in!
>
>
>>
>>Larry
>>
>>This sounds great. Please let us know where we can find directions.
>>
>>Ken, an Austin-based builder in the early stages, trying to learn enough
>>
>to
>
>>start contributing and stop lurking.
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
>>To: piet list
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Builder's Meet & Fly-in!
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Attention Pietenpol list...
>>>
>>>A group of us in the Dallas area are planning to get Piet builders and
>>>flyers on the list together to meet, share ideas and have fun.
>>>
>>>This would be a good time to meet up with a lot of the characters on the
>>>list. Lurkers will also find this a great chance to get involved. We
>>>are planning a bunch of fun stuff.
>>>
>>>The location is Midway Airport (4T6), about 30minutes south of Dallas on
>>>Saturday, June 1st. It will be in conjunction with an area pancake
>>>breakfast so the fun will run from morning until late afternoon. There
>>>should be lots of interesting aircraft as well as the much of the local
>>>Piet squadron as we can coerce into attending. Several local list
>>>notables will be in attendance and the call will also go out to all the
>>>grand 'ol list legends now flying as well. Hey guys, are you listening?
>>> Brodhead is only six weeks later so this is on the way ;-).
>>>
>>>We will have a builders introduction meeting around noon and afterwards
>>>will fire up the grill for hotdogs. After that there will be parts "show
>>>and tell", swap meet and idea seminars. Anyone who would like to
>>>discuss a topic is encouraged to form an afternoon discussion session.
>>>
>>>A possible seminar on mags and ignition by a service center manager may
>>>be held! Meet a homebuilder friendly DE that love's Pietenpols!!!
>>> Parts swaps and sales are encouraged! I'll be bringing out my slightly
>>>used rib jib to donate to the the first list member that needs it.
>>> Bring your leftover stock and finished parts to donate, trade, sell or
>>>show off. Anyone who can bring a torch and give a welding seminar will
>>>win a ride on the Space Shuttle and a date with the Dallas Cowboys
>>>Cheerleaders!
>>>
>>>If you're now flying, bring your Pietenpol, GN-1, Cub or what have you.
>>> All REAL aircraft are welcome, but we won't even mind if you come down
>>>in your Citation ;-). Juan Martinez, resident great guy and airport
>>>manager is filing waivers, so anyone without a transponder can be
>>>squeaky clean.
>>>
>>>Feel free to forward this message to any non-list Piet folks that you
>>>know and please reply to me via direct email if you're interested!
>>>
>>>Larry
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | fuselage construction begins |
Today I built a table to begin construction of my fuselage sides!
Hoping to start them sometime next week after I finish the left elevator
half.
Built the table from 3/4" MDF. Used 2 4x8 sheets ripped down to 30" and
placed them end to end. 16ft. long. Built a simple frame from 2x4's
underneath to support it and stuck it on 3 adjustable sawhorses.
I can't wait to begin the fuse! The part I've been waiting for for months.
I'm stretching my GN-1 3" in length and 2" in width (to 24"). I'm 6'4" and
195 and need the room. Hopefully all goes well.
Is there any advice on building the fuse sides?? Any tips I should be aware
of before I begin?
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage construction begins |
DJ,
I did a long narrative on fuselage construction a while back, you should
be able to find it in the archives.
My twist was to put on the belly plywood, but leave off the right side
ply to allow access for control installation.
So far this has worked out very well. I don't presume to be the
authority or have all the answers, but I did put down some of the stuff
I learned and it might help.
Larry
DJ Vegh wrote:
>
>Today I built a table to begin construction of my fuselage sides!
>
>Hoping to start them sometime next week after I finish the left elevator
>half.
>
>Built the table from 3/4" MDF. Used 2 4x8 sheets ripped down to 30" and
>placed them end to end. 16ft. long. Built a simple frame from 2x4's
>underneath to support it and stuck it on 3 adjustable sawhorses.
>
>I can't wait to begin the fuse! The part I've been waiting for for months.
>I'm stretching my GN-1 3" in length and 2" in width (to 24"). I'm 6'4" and
>195 and need the room. Hopefully all goes well.
>
>Is there any advice on building the fuse sides?? Any tips I should be aware
>of before I begin?
>
>DJ Vegh
>Mesa, AZ
>GN-1 Builder
>www.raptoronline.com
>N74DV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage construction begins |
I put the flooring in and left the side plywood open until all the inside
work was done. All those gussetts on the inside hold it together really
well. I had no problem putting the sides on after the fuse was assembled.
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Neal" <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage construction begins
>
> DJ,
>
> I did a long narrative on fuselage construction a while back, you should
> be able to find it in the archives.
> My twist was to put on the belly plywood, but leave off the right side
> ply to allow access for control installation.
> So far this has worked out very well. I don't presume to be the
> authority or have all the answers, but I did put down some of the stuff
> I learned and it might help.
>
> Larry
>
> DJ Vegh wrote:
>
> >
> >Today I built a table to begin construction of my fuselage sides!
> >
> >Hoping to start them sometime next week after I finish the left elevator
> >half.
> >
> >Built the table from 3/4" MDF. Used 2 4x8 sheets ripped down to 30" and
> >placed them end to end. 16ft. long. Built a simple frame from 2x4's
> >underneath to support it and stuck it on 3 adjustable sawhorses.
> >
> >I can't wait to begin the fuse! The part I've been waiting for for
months.
> >I'm stretching my GN-1 3" in length and 2" in width (to 24"). I'm 6'4"
and
> >195 and need the room. Hopefully all goes well.
> >
> >Is there any advice on building the fuse sides?? Any tips I should be
aware
> >of before I begin?
> >
> >DJ Vegh
> >Mesa, AZ
> >GN-1 Builder
> >www.raptoronline.com
> >N74DV
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "sandra bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Builder's Meet & Fly-in! |
Larry,
I used to be a northside of Dallas guy and am unfamiliar
with Midway aiport. Did it once go by a different name?
How close to lancaster?
Chris Bobka
never to sweat again in the refrigerator called minnesota
"KenGailGriff" wrote:
>
>
>Larry
>
>This sounds great. Please let us know where we can find
>directions.
>
>Ken, an Austin-based builder in the early stages, trying
>to learn enough to
>start contributing and stop lurking.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
>To: piet list
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Builder's Meet &
>Fly-in!
>
>
>>
>>
>> Attention Pietenpol list...
>>
>> A group of us in the Dallas area are planning to get
>>Piet builders and
>> flyers on the list together to meet, share ideas and
>>have fun.
>>
>> This would be a good time to meet up with a lot of the
>>characters on the
>> list. Lurkers will also find this a great chance to get
>>involved. We
>> are planning a bunch of fun stuff.
>>
>> The location is Midway Airport (4T6), about 30minutes
>>south of Dallas on
>> Saturday, June 1st. It will be in conjunction with an
>>area pancake
>> breakfast so the fun will run from morning until late
>>afternoon. There
>> should be lots of interesting aircraft as well as the
>>much of the local
>> Piet squadron as we can coerce into attending. Several
>>local list
>> notables will be in attendance and the call will also go
>>out to all the
>> grand 'ol list legends now flying as well. Hey guys,
>>are you listening?
>> Brodhead is only six weeks later so this is on the way
>>;-).
>>
>> We will have a builders introduction meeting around noon
>>and afterwards
>> will fire up the grill for hotdogs. After that there
>>will be parts "show
>> and tell", swap meet and idea seminars. Anyone who
>>would like to
>> discuss a topic is encouraged to form an afternoon
>>discussion session.
>>
>> A possible seminar on mags and ignition by a service
>>center manager may
>> be held! Meet a homebuilder friendly DE that love's
>>Pietenpols!!!
>> Parts swaps and sales are encouraged! I'll be bringing
>>out my slightly
>> used rib jib to donate to the the first list member that
>>needs it.
>> Bring your leftover stock and finished parts to donate,
>>trade, sell or
>> show off. Anyone who can bring a torch and give a
>>welding seminar will
>> win a ride on the Space Shuttle and a date with the
>>Dallas Cowboys
>> Cheerleaders!
>>
>> If you're now flying, bring your Pietenpol, GN-1, Cub or
>>what have you.
>> All REAL aircraft are welcome, but we won't even mind
>>if you come down
>> in your Citation ;-). Juan Martinez, resident great guy
>>and airport
>> manager is filing waivers, so anyone without a
>>transponder can be
>> squeaky clean.
>>
>> Feel free to forward this message to any non-list Piet
>>folks that you
>> know and please reply to me via direct email if you're
>>interested!
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
>
>
>Contributions of
>other form
>latest messages.
>List members.
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
>http://www.matronics.com/pietenpol-list
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | fuselage construction begins |
No tips but great to hear DJ. I finished the rudder today, laying out vert
stab now.
Do you have any kids? Your work output is inversely affected by number of
kids. ;) Not that I would trade it for anything in the world. Best helper -
but same inverse effect though. Busy teaching (him or me?). But they learn
so fast. He's 4 and a half and like a sponge.
My table is currently 4x8 on saw horses, but mine is a bit different. Sides
have cutouts that allow me to store stuff in it and under on boards between
the saw horses. I plan on building at least 1-2 more planes after this one.
I am going to add an extension when the time comes to build fuselage
(temporary). Then take it apart after that is done until needed again.
Also, had a great day at the EAA Young Eagles rally here in Houston. I
joined our local chapter today after visiting a few times. Fun bunch, bit
loco though.
-Gary
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 7:36 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage construction begins
>
>
> Today I built a table to begin construction of my fuselage sides!
>
> Hoping to start them sometime next week after I finish the left elevator
> half.
>
> Built the table from 3/4" MDF. Used 2 4x8 sheets ripped down to 30" and
> placed them end to end. 16ft. long. Built a simple frame from 2x4's
> underneath to support it and stuck it on 3 adjustable sawhorses.
>
> I can't wait to begin the fuse! The part I've been waiting for
> for months.
> I'm stretching my GN-1 3" in length and 2" in width (to 24").
> I'm 6'4" and
> 195 and need the room. Hopefully all goes well.
>
> Is there any advice on building the fuse sides?? Any tips I
> should be aware
> of before I begin?
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Builder's Meet & Fly-in! |
Chris,
Midway is relatively new, south of Lancaster by about 15 miles I'd say.
It's on highway 287 midway (hence the name) between Waxahachie to the
southeast and Midlothian to the northwest. 32 27' 21.95 N 96 54'
44.67 W (4T6)
Great place, the Airport Manager, Juan Martinez is one of the best
people you'll ever meet. Midway is a small town airport but growing,
runway to be extended, hope to have credit card fuel soon. Homebuilt's,
Aerobatics, Busjets, lot's of fly-in's and camaraderie. You can blame
Juan for all of this.
Say, could it be that you are thinking of coming by? That would suit
this bunch just fine!
Larry
sandra bobka wrote:
>
>Larry,
>
>I used to be a northside of Dallas guy and am unfamiliar
>with Midway aiport. Did it once go by a different name?
> How close to lancaster?
>
>Chris Bobka
>never to sweat again in the refrigerator called minnesota
> "KenGailGriff" wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Larry
>>
>>This sounds great. Please let us know where we can find
>>directions.
>>
>>Ken, an Austin-based builder in the early stages, trying
>>to learn enough to
>>start contributing and stop lurking.
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
>>To: piet list
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Builder's Meet &
>>Fly-in!
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Attention Pietenpol list...
>>>
>>>A group of us in the Dallas area are planning to get
>>>Piet builders and
>>>flyers on the list together to meet, share ideas and
>>>have fun.
>>>
>>>This would be a good time to meet up with a lot of the
>>>characters on the
>>>list. Lurkers will also find this a great chance to get
>>>involved. We
>>>are planning a bunch of fun stuff.
>>>
>>>The location is Midway Airport (4T6), about 30minutes
>>>south of Dallas on
>>>Saturday, June 1st. It will be in conjunction with an
>>>area pancake
>>>breakfast so the fun will run from morning until late
>>>afternoon. There
>>>should be lots of interesting aircraft as well as the
>>>much of the local
>>>Piet squadron as we can coerce into attending. Several
>>>local list
>>>notables will be in attendance and the call will also go
>>>out to all the
>>>grand 'ol list legends now flying as well. Hey guys,
>>>are you listening?
>>> Brodhead is only six weeks later so this is on the way
>>>;-).
>>>
>>>We will have a builders introduction meeting around noon
>>>and afterwards
>>>will fire up the grill for hotdogs. After that there
>>>will be parts "show
>>>and tell", swap meet and idea seminars. Anyone who
>>>would like to
>>>discuss a topic is encouraged to form an afternoon
>>>discussion session.
>>>
>>>A possible seminar on mags and ignition by a service
>>>center manager may
>>>be held! Meet a homebuilder friendly DE that love's
>>>Pietenpols!!!
>>> Parts swaps and sales are encouraged! I'll be bringing
>>>out my slightly
>>>used rib jib to donate to the the first list member that
>>>needs it.
>>> Bring your leftover stock and finished parts to donate,
>>>trade, sell or
>>>show off. Anyone who can bring a torch and give a
>>>welding seminar will
>>>win a ride on the Space Shuttle and a date with the
>>>Dallas Cowboys
>>>Cheerleaders!
>>>
>>>If you're now flying, bring your Pietenpol, GN-1, Cub or
>>>what have you.
>>> All REAL aircraft are welcome, but we won't even mind
>>>if you come down
>>>in your Citation ;-). Juan Martinez, resident great guy
>>>and airport
>>>manager is filing waivers, so anyone without a
>>>transponder can be
>>>squeaky clean.
>>>
>>>Feel free to forward this message to any non-list Piet
>>>folks that you
>>>know and please reply to me via direct email if you're
>>>interested!
>>>
>>>Larry
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Contributions of
>>other form
>>latest messages.
>>List members.
>>http://www.matronics.com/subscription
>> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>>http://www.matronics.com/pietenpol-list
>> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Av gas in out board |
Mike,
Thanks, that is exactly why I wanted to use it.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Av gas in out board
> >
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Ted:
> I have used av gas in my 6hp outboard & in my IO. No problems so
> far. In fact, av gas has a much longer shelf life than auto gas.
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
Corky,
Are you talking about the tape you put on around the edges and over the rib
stiching? It is anywhere from 1" wide to 3" wide? If so, that is not the
tape I was asking about.
I am asking about the thick tape that has adhesive on it. It is from 3/8"
to 1/2" wide and is put on before you rib stich to reinforce the fabric so
it doesn't tear from the rib stich. It is quite expensive and I was
wondering if anyone had found a more reasonable source. Or, is that what
you were talking about and you cut it out from fabric and glued it down?
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
> Ted,
> I'm going with that 2.7 from Superflite 72 in width for $3.25 a yard. Am
> ordering 36 yds. NOW on the tape issue. Most of my friends are in
residence
> and/or nursing homes with nothing to do after their meals, bath, shots etc
> but look at the girls passing in the halls and sing MEMORIES. SO, I'll
just
> take them some pencil lined dacron with a pr of pinking shears and before
> long I will have provided two important things. My tapes in various widths
> and most important, the seventh cardinal principle of education,"a worthy
use
> of leisure time". Who knows, we just might get something started. A great
> thing you can do for those infirmed is to let them know they are still
needed
> and provide them with some sort of productive activity.
> DONT LET ANY FED READ THIS AS THEY MIGHT WANT TO IMPROVE ON IT. We all
know
> what would happen then.
>
> Corky in La also trying to build as economically as possible.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
This is a bit off topic. I am trying to find the photographer, Michael
Madrid. He photographed the beautiful picture of Frank Pavliga's(sp?) plane,
often called 899fp.jpg. He has the copyright but I want to get his
permission to use it on my site. Anyone know him or the company he works
for? TIA.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA 665957
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hallstenokc" <hallstenokc(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Rib building and Epoxy cleanup |
My ribs are coming along, I'm getting better the more I build, but what is used
to clean T-88 off my tools? I've got one sticky stapler, knife and pliers.
I'm thinking of doing away with the stapler, as it's not working the way I
thought. The gusset slides around too much while I try to hit the staple in.
Then I press the gusset for a bit to get it to grab, and my stapler decides to
NOT put a staple in. I almost ordered some nails today after I tried pulling
a mangled staple from a gusset, and had the staple bloody my thumb. It's time
for a beer.
And another revelation. As I assemble my ribs, (from wood I cut at home, just
to save money), I see that many capstrips aren't holding a true 1/4" dimension.
And since I pre-cut all my capstrip supports, as I place them in the jig
there are some that don't meet the joint on the upper or lower capstrip. So
I re-cut a few supports in each rib. And my blocks are 1/2" tall and placed
too close to the joints. So they get glued by the runoff of epoxy. I have moved
my blocks since the first rib, but I think 3/8" tall and less epoxy would be
better, if I had to build a jig again.
Considering what I have accomplished since getting my plans at the end of November
2001, it would have been much better to not buy a $250 table saw, not buy
red cedar (About $40 bucks worth) and put the money toward Sitka Spruce precut
capstrip material. If I did that I would be done with ribs by now, and onto
something else.
Sometimes I think I'm pretty smart, only to have reality wake me up.
Kent Hallsten
Oklahoma City
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | fuselage construction begins |
>
>Do you have any kids? Your work output is inversely affected by number of
>kids. ;) Not that I would trade it for anything in the world. Best helper -
>but same inverse effect though. Busy teaching (him or me?). But they learn
>so fast. He's 4 and a half and like a sponge.
Gary,
I thought it was directly porportional to their AGE (mine's 2-1/2). She's
too young to be a helper yet, but a great excuse to go out to the airport
("the kid's cranky & needs a nap, hon, I'll go drive her around a while
until she goes to sleep").
BTW, this is an open invitation for any and all Piet drivers or wannabes to
come to the annual Taylorcraft Fly-in at Barber Field in Alliance, OH this
summer (July 5,6,7). This fly-in is also the unofficial OH Piet Fly-in,
according to Mike Cuy. Frank Pavliga's plane, 899FP, is based there, and
mine probably will be as well, once it's completed. Forrest Barber, the
FBO, has extended the offical welcome to any and all Piets at this event.
Check www.taylorcraft.org for details.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | Rib building and Epoxy cleanup |
Try plain 'ole white vinegar (while it is still tacky).
Glad to hear it is all coming along nicely. Bummer about the uneven
thickness of your capstrip.
I am going to use nails on mine, I just do not like the staples. Also, I
have just been gluing up the capstrip, letting it dry and then using clothes
pins to hold gussets on later. I can do both sides at one go. No problems as
long as you are very careful removing the ribs. This worked will on the test
BF rib I did. Have not tried it on Piet yet. Probably to thick, the BF is
only 1/4" capstrip. Maybe some small clamps would work.
Look at DJ's site, www.raptoronline.com for how he did it. Looks good and
clean. Remember too that they do NOT have to be super tight.
In the T-88 Tech Data Sheet, the following sentence it found in the 4th
paragraph, second page:
"T-88 is unique in that it may be applied to damp wood, provided the
adhesive is worked well into the surface. Glue line thickness is not
critical and clamping is not necessary if the joint is undisturbed during
set-up of the adhesive. However, when bonding wood where end-grain is
exposed T-88 may be thickened slightly to prevent excessive absorption."
This good stuff and has very good gap filling properties. It is not like
plastic cements that "melt" the joint together. It IS the joint. Some people
clamp too much, too tightly and squeeze out the epoxy. Starved joints are
bad, bad.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA 665957
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> hallstenokc
> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 10:47 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib building and Epoxy cleanup
>
>
> My ribs are coming along, I'm getting better the more I build,
> but what is used to clean T-88 off my tools? I've got one sticky
> stapler, knife and pliers.
>
> I'm thinking of doing away with the stapler, as it's not
> working the way I thought. The gusset slides around too much
> while I try to hit the staple in. Then I press the gusset for a
> bit to get it to grab, and my stapler decides to NOT put a staple
> in. I almost ordered some nails today after I tried pulling a
> mangled staple from a gusset, and had the staple bloody my thumb.
> It's time for a beer.
>
> And another revelation. As I assemble my ribs, (from wood I
> cut at home, just to save money), I see that many capstrips
> aren't holding a true 1/4" dimension. And since I pre-cut all my
> capstrip supports, as I place them in the jig there are some that
> don't meet the joint on the upper or lower capstrip. So I
> re-cut a few supports in each rib. And my blocks are 1/2" tall
> and placed too close to the joints. So they get glued by the
> runoff of epoxy. I have moved my blocks since the first rib, but
> I think 3/8" tall and less epoxy would be better, if I had to
> build a jig again.
>
> Considering what I have accomplished since getting my plans at
> the end of November 2001, it would have been much better to not
> buy a $250 table saw, not buy red cedar (About $40 bucks worth)
> and put the money toward Sitka Spruce precut capstrip material.
> If I did that I would be done with ribs by now, and onto something else.
>
> Sometimes I think I'm pretty smart, only to have reality wake me up.
>
> Kent Hallsten
> Oklahoma City
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | fuselage construction begins |
yup... I have an 8 yr old son. Tyler. Likes to help, but after about 10
minutes of helping he gets bored and figures it's best to go rollerblading
or play kickball. Guess he's too young now... problem is at about 14 or
15 he'll be chasin' girls. There must be that "sweet spot" between 10-14
when boys are actually interested in projects like these... By that
time I figure I'll be on my second Piet.. :-)
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
McNeel, Jr.
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fuselage construction begins
No tips but great to hear DJ. I finished the rudder today, laying out vert
stab now.
Do you have any kids? Your work output is inversely affected by number of
kids. ;) Not that I would trade it for anything in the world. Best helper -
but same inverse effect though. Busy teaching (him or me?). But they learn
so fast. He's 4 and a half and like a sponge.
My table is currently 4x8 on saw horses, but mine is a bit different. Sides
have cutouts that allow me to store stuff in it and under on boards between
the saw horses. I plan on building at least 1-2 more planes after this one.
I am going to add an extension when the time comes to build fuselage
(temporary). Then take it apart after that is done until needed again.
Also, had a great day at the EAA Young Eagles rally here in Houston. I
joined our local chapter today after visiting a few times. Fun bunch, bit
loco though.
-Gary
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 7:36 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage construction begins
>
>
> Today I built a table to begin construction of my fuselage sides!
>
> Hoping to start them sometime next week after I finish the left elevator
> half.
>
> Built the table from 3/4" MDF. Used 2 4x8 sheets ripped down to 30" and
> placed them end to end. 16ft. long. Built a simple frame from 2x4's
> underneath to support it and stuck it on 3 adjustable sawhorses.
>
> I can't wait to begin the fuse! The part I've been waiting for
> for months.
> I'm stretching my GN-1 3" in length and 2" in width (to 24").
> I'm 6'4" and
> 195 and need the room. Hopefully all goes well.
>
> Is there any advice on building the fuse sides?? Any tips I
> should be aware
> of before I begin?
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | fuselage sides - corner blocks? |
a question....
The GN-1 plans don't specifically call for "corner blocks" where longerons
meet the uprights and diagonals. By corner blocks I mean small triangle
pieces of spruce about 1.5 x 1.5" on either side of the uprights to increase
glue surface area. My dad is insisting that I should include corner blocks
since his Fisher Celebrity plans called for them. I've been looking at lots
of pictures of Piet frames on the table and have yet to see any with corner
blocks. Are gussets on both sides enough to strengthen the joint so that
corner blocks aren't used??.... esp. in a GN-1 where the plywood side goes
all the way to the tail post??
What's the consensus
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage construction begins |
DJ are you planning on building two? mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fuselage construction begins
>
> yup... I have an 8 yr old son. Tyler. Likes to help, but after about
10
> minutes of helping he gets bored and figures it's best to go rollerblading
> or play kickball. Guess he's too young now... problem is at about 14 or
> 15 he'll be chasin' girls. There must be that "sweet spot" between 10-14
> when boys are actually interested in projects like these... By that
> time I figure I'll be on my second Piet.. :-)
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
> McNeel, Jr.
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fuselage construction begins
>
>
>
>
> No tips but great to hear DJ. I finished the rudder today, laying out vert
> stab now.
>
> Do you have any kids? Your work output is inversely affected by number of
> kids. ;) Not that I would trade it for anything in the world. Best
helper -
> but same inverse effect though. Busy teaching (him or me?). But they learn
> so fast. He's 4 and a half and like a sponge.
>
> My table is currently 4x8 on saw horses, but mine is a bit different.
Sides
> have cutouts that allow me to store stuff in it and under on boards
between
> the saw horses. I plan on building at least 1-2 more planes after this
one.
> I am going to add an extension when the time comes to build fuselage
> (temporary). Then take it apart after that is done until needed again.
>
> Also, had a great day at the EAA Young Eagles rally here in Houston. I
> joined our local chapter today after visiting a few times. Fun bunch, bit
> loco though.
>
> -Gary
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
> > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 7:36 PM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage construction begins
> >
> >
> >
> > Today I built a table to begin construction of my fuselage sides!
> >
> > Hoping to start them sometime next week after I finish the left elevator
> > half.
> >
> > Built the table from 3/4" MDF. Used 2 4x8 sheets ripped down to 30" and
> > placed them end to end. 16ft. long. Built a simple frame from 2x4's
> > underneath to support it and stuck it on 3 adjustable sawhorses.
> >
> > I can't wait to begin the fuse! The part I've been waiting for
> > for months.
> > I'm stretching my GN-1 3" in length and 2" in width (to 24").
> > I'm 6'4" and
> > 195 and need the room. Hopefully all goes well.
> >
> > Is there any advice on building the fuse sides?? Any tips I
> > should be aware
> > of before I begin?
> >
> > DJ Vegh
> > Mesa, AZ
> > GN-1 Builder
> > www.raptoronline.com
> > N74DV
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | fuselage sides - corner blocks? |
On the Piet plans there are blocks only in the front area, where the gear
are, those struts and diagonals. I could scan that part of the plans and
show you.
-Gary
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
> Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 12:32 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage sides - corner blocks?
>
>
> a question....
>
> The GN-1 plans don't specifically call for "corner blocks" where longerons
> meet the uprights and diagonals. By corner blocks I mean small triangle
> pieces of spruce about 1.5 x 1.5" on either side of the uprights
> to increase
> glue surface area. My dad is insisting that I should include
> corner blocks
> since his Fisher Celebrity plans called for them. I've been
> looking at lots
> of pictures of Piet frames on the table and have yet to see any
> with corner
> blocks. Are gussets on both sides enough to strengthen the joint so that
> corner blocks aren't used??.... esp. in a GN-1 where the plywood side goes
> all the way to the tail post??
>
> What's the consensus
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage sides - corner blocks? |
On the GN-1 Don't Do It!
No, really, the additional corner blocks interfere with the bolts for each
landing gear attach point bracket, wing attach point, and the bolts for the
engine mount brackets. Notice that these brackets have bolts running
through the logerons vertically. Corner blocks are in the way. This means
you have to either do without the additional bolts (not a good option) or
weld small ears on each side to run the bolts through (also not a good
option - but thats what i did)
The way it is designed should be just fine, I don't think it's neceassary to
add them (ala the Fisher). My 2 cents - Email me off list if you need more
info.
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage sides - corner blocks?
>
> a question....
>
> The GN-1 plans don't specifically call for "corner blocks" where longerons
> meet the uprights and diagonals. By corner blocks I mean small triangle
> pieces of spruce about 1.5 x 1.5" on either side of the uprights to
increase
> glue surface area. My dad is insisting that I should include corner
blocks
> since his Fisher Celebrity plans called for them. I've been looking at
lots
> of pictures of Piet frames on the table and have yet to see any with
corner
> blocks. Are gussets on both sides enough to strengthen the joint so that
> corner blocks aren't used??.... esp. in a GN-1 where the plywood side goes
> all the way to the tail post??
>
> What's the consensus
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 03/16/02 |
Ted,
Sorry I got into this tape discussion as I have previously stated I don't
know my brass from 5th base. I was dreaming of saving money by cutting those
wide tapes from left overs but I am reminded the tapes are treated with some
chemical in order to prevent fraying. I'll bite the bullet and buy my pinked
tapes. Sorry to have entered into something of which I had NO knowledge.
Corky in La building his engine cowling for 41CC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Rib building and Epoxy cleanup |
Kent,
You might want to try resorcinol for your ribs. I use both, resorcinol and
T-88, and both are very good glues, but both have advantages and
disadvantages. One thing I really like about resorcinol is that it
generally stays where you put it, unlike T-88 which seems viscous at first,
but can flow for hours after you've clamped everything tight and gone to get
a beer. I generally use resorcinol anywhere on the structure that I can get
a good tight fitting joint and can get good clamping pressure, where the
finished glue joint won't show (I don't think the brown stain left over from
resorcinol is very pretty), so I have used T-88 in the cockpit area. Last
night I found a big lump of cured T-88 on my varnished floorboard where it
dripped down after I glued the front instrument panel in place. Now I'll
have to chisel that up, sand down the chisel marks and then re-varnish the
floorboard in that area.
I found (particularly using resorcinol) that it was best to cut the uprights
for the ribs as you were building each rib to get a perfect fitting joint.
A belt sander is extremely useful to put the odd bevels on the uprights and
diagonals - much faster and more accurate than a saw. I had pre-cut all of
mine, but left them about 1/8" long and then sanded them on the belt sander
to fit precisely as they were trial fitted before gluing. I tried stapling,
but found nails to work better for me (less chance of splitting the plywood
gussets or the capstrip). It took me about 3 hours to build each rib, so in
a month I had all the ribs done.
I've done test joints with both T-88 and Resorcinol and can't tell any
difference in performance. Both hold very well, and the wood always fails,
not the glue. I have not tried joint tests at elevated temperatures, where
the T-88 is weakest. Resorcinol does have a couple of things to watch out
for - it requires a high clamping pressure, usually requiring AN301 nails
every 3/4" or so. And your shop temperature (and all the materials you are
gluing, including the glue) need to be at least 70F, so you might have to
run heaters in your shop, particularly in the winter. If you can meet all
that, and make good tight fitting joints, it is the strongest, longest
lasting glue available.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of hallstenokc
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib building and Epoxy cleanup
My ribs are coming along, I'm getting better the more I build, but what is
used to clean T-88 off my tools? I've got one sticky stapler, knife and
pliers.
I'm thinking of doing away with the stapler, as it's not working the
way I thought. The gusset slides around too much while I try to hit the
staple in. Then I press the gusset for a bit to get it to grab, and my
stapler decides to NOT put a staple in. I almost ordered some nails today
after I tried pulling a mangled staple from a gusset, and had the staple
bloody my thumb. It's time for a beer.
And another revelation. As I assemble my ribs, (from wood I cut at
home, just to save money), I see that many capstrips aren't holding a true
1/4" dimension. And since I pre-cut all my capstrip supports, as I place
them in the jig there are some that don't meet the joint on the upper or
lower capstrip. So I re-cut a few supports in each rib. And my blocks are
1/2" tall and placed too close to the joints. So they get glued by the
runoff of epoxy. I have moved my blocks since the first rib, but I think
3/8" tall and less epoxy would be better, if I had to build a jig again.
Considering what I have accomplished since getting my plans at the end of
November 2001, it would have been much better to not buy a $250 table saw,
not buy red cedar (About $40 bucks worth) and put the money toward Sitka
Spruce precut capstrip material. If I did that I would be done with ribs by
now, and onto something else.
Sometimes I think I'm pretty smart, only to have reality wake me up.
Kent Hallsten
Oklahoma City
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hallstenokc" <hallstenokc(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib building and Epoxy cleanup |
I thought about using an electric stapler, and I have one to boot, but in the archives
it is mentioned that those type of staples are flat with chisel points,
and will split the thin capstrip. The round staples in an office stapler are
better. Maybe my stapler is a cheap junker, as it misfires about 75 % of the
time. I will try one test piece. I went to Sun 'n Fun in 2001, maybe 2000?
and saw the man build ribs with an office stapler. I didn't get his name but
it seems to be Charlie Rubeck as others here have mentioned. He put a rib together
in about 20 minutes. Gussets and all.
I have enough steel clamps to hold a rib together, but clothespins sound like the
way to go. They won't put as much "squeeze" on the gusset as these steel clamps.
Do clothespins open up enough, 5/8"? I don't have any here to check.
Gary, what do you mean by a 'BF rib' ?
I strive for a perfect joint fit, but I don't want to be neurotic about it. Can
a 1/16" gap be safe, so far that is my limit. I know T-88 has the gap filling
properties, and the gusset takes most of the strength.
Back out to the garage for another go at it.
Kent Hallsten
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib building and Epoxy cleanup |
Kent,
The rib building method that worked for me:
I use a small size shop stapler, Arrow JT-21 and 1/4" staples for the ribs,
used the same stapler and just longer staples for the 1/8" gussets on the
fuselage.
When I dry fit the rib draw a pencil line around the gusset. Butter the
T-88 on the rib and gusset and set the gusset in place, push it down in the
glue a little to set in place and with
that same hand hold in place and staple with the other hand.
When all gussets are in place on the first side take the rib out and glue
gussets on the second side, if the joint opens up a little on the second
side just hold closed while stapling the gusset on.
Than set that rub aside and remove staples from the rib I did yesterday.
The whole thing takes about 45 minutes, assuming the parts were pre-made.
I saved all the staples from 30 ribs in a plastic bag and they weigh 1/2 lb.
Skip Gadd
> [Original Message]
> From: hallstenokc <hallstenokc(at)cox.net>
> I thought about using an electric stapler, and I have one to boot, but in
the archives it is mentioned that those type of staples are flat with
chisel points, and will split the thin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | Rib building and Epoxy cleanup |
>
> I thought about using an electric stapler, and I have one to
> boot, but in the archives it is mentioned that those type of
> staples are flat with chisel points, and will split the thin
> capstrip. The round staples in an office stapler are better.
> Maybe my stapler is a cheap junker, as it misfires about 75 % of
> the time. I will try one test piece. I went to Sun 'n Fun in
> 2001, maybe 2000? and saw the man build ribs with an office
> stapler. I didn't get his name but it seems to be Charlie Rubeck
> as others here have mentioned. He put a rib together in about 20
> minutes. Gussets and all.
I just used the 1/4" staples to do some gusset with no splitting. They are
the chisel point type. You just need enough bite to hold the piece in place,
not mash it down.
>
> I have enough steel clamps to hold a rib together, but
> clothespins sound like the way to go. They won't put as much
> "squeeze" on the gusset as these steel clamps. Do clothespins
> open up enough, 5/8"? I don't have any here to check.
Yeah, that occurred to me too. I think not.
>
> Gary, what do you mean by a 'BF rib' ?
Sorry, BF is short for Wolf Boredom Fighter, WWI looking bi-plane. I built
one rib before deciding to build a Piet for the two-place purpose of taking
my son up. Just could not (at this time) justify a single place.
>
> I strive for a perfect joint fit, but I don't want to be neurotic
> about it. Can a 1/16" gap be safe, so far that is my limit.
> I know T-88 has the gap filling properties, and the gusset takes
> most of the strength.
Somewhere I read 1/16" was okay. Maybe in the Epoxy manual you can download
from the System Three site. Can't remember. Maybe in the Tech document.
>
> Back out to the garage for another go at it.
>
> Kent Hallsten
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib building and Epoxy cleanup |
----- Original Message -----
From: Skip Gadd
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib building and Epoxy cleanup
.........When all gussets are in place on the first side take the rib
out and glue
gussets on the second side, if the joint opens up a little on the
second
side just hold closed while stapling the gusset on...........
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The uprights & diagonals do not have to be a perfect fit in a
gusseted joint. In fact, they can be on the loose side. A butt joint is
not structural.
T-88 joint or spillage can be broken or removed with a 300 deg heat
gun.
Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage sides - corner blocks? |
corner blocks are not necessary, the gusset is there to increase the surface
area for glueing and is quite enough.
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage sides - corner blocks?
>
> a question....
>
> The GN-1 plans don't specifically call for "corner blocks" where longerons
> meet the uprights and diagonals. By corner blocks I mean small triangle
> pieces of spruce about 1.5 x 1.5" on either side of the uprights to
increase
> glue surface area. My dad is insisting that I should include corner
blocks
> since his Fisher Celebrity plans called for them. I've been looking at
lots
> of pictures of Piet frames on the table and have yet to see any with
corner
> blocks. Are gussets on both sides enough to strengthen the joint so that
> corner blocks aren't used??.... esp. in a GN-1 where the plywood side goes
> all the way to the tail post??
>
> What's the consensus
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Kent Hallsten article |
Kent,
Congratulations (in advance) for you article.
I am going to read it in a few weeks more... It takes
longer to recieve my EAA magazines here (Sport
Aviation and Experimenter).
Saludos
Gary Gower
Guadalajara, Mexico.
--- hallstenokc wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the nice comment Skip. And I want to say
> thanks to Cy Galley for getting it out. In my life
> I never had anything published, it's pretty neat!
>
> I just got my copy of the Experimenter in
> yesterday's mail, along with two extra copies to
> pass around. My mother is visiting from Connecticut
> for a few weeks, and she can't wait to pass the
> magazine around town when she returns! Oh, in the
> story I mentioned I didn't get in trouble as a boy
> by taking airplane rides without her permission.
> Well, I got in trouble last night ! I guess I'll
> take her out to lunch now and smooth things over.
> See you all later.
>
> Kent Hallsten
> Oklahoma City
>
>
http://sports.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
I used red felt pen (water ink, not permanent ink, my
only wise thought) to mark my project.
Great Mistake! The red line kept coming out every
hand of yellow paint. It lasted until the sun burned
the red color away, a few weeks later in the
aerodrome. NEVER use felt pens, all your pilot
friends will laugh at you.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Steve Eldredge wrote:
> Eldredge"
>
> How about a blue colored pencil then, just to make
> everyone happy.
>
> I used blue chalk to line up my stiches by running a
> spanwise chalk
> line. I didn't need much other marking, but avoided
> using ink of any
> kind since I suspected it might bleed through. I
> think I used some
> regular pencil markings however without a problem.
>
> Steve E
>
> PS. Trying to keep up with the list a bit more...
> You guys put up a ton
> of email in a day! Hope building is going at the
> same pace. :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Hofmann [mailto:jhofmann(at)charter.net]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
>
>
> My manual (not the most current one) the video and
> Ray told me himself
> to
> use blue ballpoint pen. Very strange.
>
>
>
> >
> > HOWEVER - the Polyfiber manula (if that is the
> process used)
> repeatedly
> > stresses to use PENCIL only.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://sports.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Photographer... |
He has a page in internet with his work... I found it
once, searching for aomething else...
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- "Gary McNeel, Jr." wrote:
> Jr."
>
> This is a bit off topic. I am trying to find the
> photographer, Michael
> Madrid. He photographed the beautiful picture of
> Frank Pavliga's(sp?) plane,
> often called 899fp.jpg. He has the copyright but I
> want to get his
> permission to use it on my site. Anyone know him or
> the company he works
> for? TIA.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
> MyKitPlane.com
> EAA 665957
> gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
>
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
>
> "What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come
> back?"
>
> Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last
> recorded words, in reply to
> a request for an autograph as he was climbing into
> the cockpit of his plane.
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://sports.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
Found it. Was not sure that was it, should have known though. Let me guess
what else....
Thanks.
-Gary
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
> Gower
> Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 1:23 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Photographer...
>
>
> He has a page in internet with his work... I found it
> once, searching for aomething else...
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
>
>
> --- "Gary McNeel, Jr." wrote:
> > Jr."
> >
> > This is a bit off topic. I am trying to find the
> > photographer, Michael
> > Madrid. He photographed the beautiful picture of
> > Frank Pavliga's(sp?) plane,
> > often called 899fp.jpg. He has the copyright but I
> > want to get his
> > permission to use it on my site. Anyone know him or
> > the company he works
> > for? TIA.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
> > MyKitPlane.com
> > EAA 665957
> > gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
> >
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
> >
> > "What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come
> > back?"
> >
> > Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last
> > recorded words, in reply to
> > a request for an autograph as he was climbing into
> > the cockpit of his plane.
> >
> >
> >
> > Forum -
> > Contributions of
> > any other form
> >
> > latest messages.
> > other List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/search
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> http://sports.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Air-Oil Separator |
I think I have a good aluminum jacket (from a discarded water filter
cartridge) from which to make an air-oil separator as shown in Tony's
"Firewall Forward" book. Only problem is it has a plastic liner about a
64th thick on the inside. Does anyone know of a product that will
dissolve plastic without harming the aluminum which is about a 16th
thick?
DickG.
Ft. Myers, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib building and Epoxy cleanup |
> [Original Message]
> From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
> The uprights & diagonals do not have to be a perfect fit in a
> gusseted joint. In fact, they can be on the loose side. A butt joint is
> not structural.
> Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam )
Charlie Rubeck, who has made more Piet ribs than anyone in history, does
not even glue this joint, he just glues the gusset to both parts.
End grain joints don't have much holding power for 2 reasons. 1 The grain
draws the glue into the wood away from the joint. and 2 Small serface area.
Number
1 can be improved some by pre-gluing the end grain and letting the
glue cure before gluing the joint.
You can see Charlie build ribs at Sun n Fun at the wood shop.
Skip Gadd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib building and Epoxy cleanup |
That was really strange, maybe this will work.
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
> > The uprights & diagonals do not have to be a perfect fit in a
> > gusseted joint. In fact, they can be on the loose side. A butt joint is
> > not structural.
> > Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam )
>
> Charlie Rubeck, who has made more Piet ribs than anyone in history, does
not even glue this joint, he just glues the gusset to both parts.
> End grain joints don't have much holding power for 2 reasons. 1 The grain
draws the glue into the wood away from the joint. and 2 Small serface area.
Number 1 can be improved some by pre-gluing the end grain and letting the
glue cure before gluing the joint.
> You can see Charlie build ribs at Sun n Fun at the wood shop.
> Skip Gadd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
I was wondering if you should rib lace on the tail feathers. Is the fabric
just glue'd on? I saw someone's pictures and they put little spacers between
the tail ribs. I figured it was so they wouldn't get squeezed together when
they were laced. But the plans don't call for them. Is glue fabric good
enough? is the fabric glue'd to the wing ribs also? I know they are laced.
I've finished 24 ribs and the horizontal stab. just started working on the
elevators.
George Allen
Harrisburg, PA
GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
(Peitenpol builder)
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
> I can't believe you did rib lacing on the vert. and horizotal surfaces in
> 30 min? Mark----- Original Message -----
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Air-Oil Separator |
Hi Dick,
It depends on what kind of plastic it is. If it is a styrene or
polycarbonate, methylene chloride will dissolve it. Try a cheap (the
cheaper the better) paint stripper. Most of them are based on methylene
chloride. Be sure to use it in good ventilation, unless you want liver
cancer. MEK will dissolve some plastics, as will toluene, but neither of
them will work as fast as methylene chloride.
If the plastic is polyethylene, I don't know of anything that will dissolve
it. You might try melting it out in your wife's oven (wait till she's gone
for a day or so, to get the smell out of the house). Put it in a disposable
aluminum pie pan and let it cook at 400 degrees for a few hours. That
should do it. Or melt or burn it out with a propane torch, but be very
careful not to melt your aluminum. Perhaps if you wrap the outside with a
wet washcloth to protect the aluminum you can burn out the plastic without
damaging the aluminum.
Are you going to be welding the fittings onto the aluminum? Do you know
what alloy it is? Some are weldable, some are not.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick and
Marge Gillespie
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air-Oil Separator
I think I have a good aluminum jacket (from a discarded water filter
cartridge) from which to make an air-oil separator as shown in Tony's
"Firewall Forward" book. Only problem is it has a plastic liner about a
64th thick on the inside. Does anyone know of a product that will
dissolve plastic without harming the aluminum which is about a 16th
thick?
DickG.
Ft. Myers, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesJboyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage sides - corner blocks? |
HI DJ,
Corner blocks are not necessary. The gussets serve the same purpose and are
lighter. No Piets have come apart structurally; they are overbuilt, you don't
need to add more weight.
Cheers, Jim
NX499JB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
----- Original Message -----
From: George Allen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
I was wondering if you should rib lace on the tail feathers. Is the
fabric
just glue'd on?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lace them.
MikeB Piet N687MB (Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
>
>I was wondering if you should rib lace on the tail feathers. Is the fabric
>just glue'd on? I saw someone's pictures and they put little spacers between
>the tail ribs. I figured it was so they wouldn't get squeezed together when
>they were laced. But the plans don't call for them. Is glue fabric good
>enough? is the fabric glue'd to the wing ribs also? I know they are laced.
>
>George Allen
>Harrisburg, PA
>GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
>(Peitenpol builder)
I was checking some details on Frank Pavliga's Piet just yesterday. (Nice
to have a reference plane only 20 min. away.) Happened to notice that he
stiched all the tail feather surfaces.
Don't know if he glued his wing fabric, but I think a lot of guys do.
However, if I recall correctly what Jim & Dondi demonstrated at their
Poly-Fiber workshop, they only glue the edges & let the fabric 'float' over
the ribs.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib building and Epoxy cleanup |
| From: | catdesigns(at)juno.com |
Clean your tools with white vinegar, works great on uncured T-88.
When I built my ribs I did not put on the plywood gussets until after I
pulled the rib out of the jig. I was able to pull/pop the rib out of the
jig with out it breaking any of the glue joints. Then I glued on the
gussets and held them in place with 1 inch binder clips (from the office
supply store) until the glue dried. No nails no staples no fuss..
Chris
Sacramento, CA
writes:
>
>
> My ribs are coming along, I'm getting better the more I build, but
> what is used to clean T-88 off my tools? I've got one sticky
> stapler, knife and pliers.
>
> I'm thinking of doing away with the stapler, as it's not
> working the way I thought. The gusset slides around too much while I
> try to hit the staple in. Then I press the gusset for a bit to get
> it to grab, and my stapler decides to NOT put a staple in. I almost
> ordered some nails today after I tried pulling a mangled staple from
> a gusset, and had the staple bloody my thumb. It's time for a beer.
>
> And another revelation. As I assemble my ribs, (from wood I cut
> at home, just to save money), I see that many capstrips aren't
> holding a true 1/4" dimension. And since I pre-cut all my capstrip
> supports, as I place them in the jig there are some that don't meet
> the joint on the upper or lower capstrip. So I re-cut a few
> supports in each rib. And my blocks are 1/2" tall and placed too
> close to the joints. So they get glued by the runoff of epoxy. I
> have moved my blocks since the first rib, but I think 3/8" tall and
> less epoxy would be better, if I had to build a jig again.
>
> Considering what I have accomplished since getting my plans at the
> end of November 2001, it would have been much better to not buy a
> $250 table saw, not buy red cedar (About $40 bucks worth) and put
> the money toward Sitka Spruce precut capstrip material. If I did
> that I would be done with ribs by now, and onto something else.
>
> Sometimes I think I'm pretty smart, only to have reality wake me
> up.
>
> Kent Hallsten
> Oklahoma City
>
>
>
>
> messages.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage construction begins |
If I were starting over I would try to put that extra 2 inches between the
rear cockpit seatback and the instrumental panel. Mine is too close to my
face to feel comfortable. Just a sugestion. If you can sit in one I think
you would see what I mean.
Wizzard 187 in warming up Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Wilcox" <craigwilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib building and Epoxy cleanup |
> Sometimes I think I'm pretty smart, only to have reality wake me up.
>
> Kent Hallsten
> Oklahoma City
Welcome to the wonderful world of airplane building!!! Remember that this
is supposed to be for recreation and education. Wish I had a dime for every
part I've ever had to re-do.
Craig
Cutting his steel elevator apart to make it 4" longer!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Wilcox" <craigwilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
Denatured alcohol is the thinner and cleaner-upper for T-88. Only works
while the glue is not yet hardened, but does a dynamite job. After it's
hardened, use a wire wheel on the grinder!
Vinegar is great for silicons or the Tite-Bond II types. Soap and water for
Elmer's.
Craig
Wishing there was a clean-up solvent for welding!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Glue clean-up |
In a message dated 3/17/02 8:59:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
craigwilcox(at)peoplepc.com writes:
<< Denatured alcohol is the thinner and cleaner-upper for T-88. Only works
while the glue is not yet hardened, but does a dynamite job. After it's
hardened, use a wire wheel on the grinder!
>>
What about good old Finger Nail Polish Remover ? Its acetone based.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Rib building and Epoxy cleanup |
Sounds familiar. I made seven cabane strut fittings for the centersection
to get four good ones. Same for the landing gear fittings. I swear I could
build a second Pietenpol for two thirds the cost and in half the time. You
definitely get an education doing this. Again, pity the kitbuilders. They
just get to assemble things, not actually make them.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
Wilcox
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib building and Epoxy cleanup
Welcome to the wonderful world of airplane building!!! Remember that this
is supposed to be for recreation and education. Wish I had a dime for every
part I've ever had to re-do.
Craig
Cutting his steel elevator apart to make it 4" longer!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
Upss... :-0
No, was searching about Madrid, tha capital of Spain,
But saw a photo of a model in front of a Flybaby
airplane (his most newer set of photos at that time)
so I went to look around... ;-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- "Gary McNeel, Jr." wrote:
> Jr."
>
> Found it. Was not sure that was it, should have
> known though. Let me guess
> what else....
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Gary
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On
> Behalf Of Gary
> > Gower
> > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 1:23 PM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Photographer...
> >
> >
>
> >
> > He has a page in internet with his work... I
> found it
> > once, searching for aomething else...
> >
> > Saludos
> > Gary Gower
> >
> >
> > --- "Gary McNeel, Jr."
> wrote:
> McNeel,
> > > Jr."
> > >
> > > This is a bit off topic. I am trying to find the
> > > photographer, Michael
> > > Madrid. He photographed the beautiful picture of
> > > Frank Pavliga's(sp?) plane,
> > > often called 899fp.jpg. He has the copyright but
> I
> > > want to get his
> > > permission to use it on my site. Anyone know him
> or
> > > the company he works
> > > for? TIA.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
> > > MyKitPlane.com
> > > EAA 665957
> > > gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
> > >
> >
>
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
> > >
> > > "What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come
> > > back?"
> > >
> > > Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last
> > > recorded words, in reply to
> > > a request for an autograph as he was climbing
> into
> > > the cockpit of his plane.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Forum -
> > > Contributions of
> > > any other form
> > >
> > > latest messages.
> > > other List members.
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > > http://www.matronics.com/search
> > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > http://sports.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://sports.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Air-Oil Separator |
Maybe because I work with Stainless Steel, but I made
a carburator hot air box with thin SS...
Is very easy to weld with TIG and is not heavy.
Hope I would live in USA, I will make you one for
free, but is a problem to get it tax free to cross
the border, and I think that the shipping will be more
expensive that having the part built or bought over
there...
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Jack Phillips wrote:
> Phillips"
>
> Hi Dick,
>
> It depends on what kind of plastic it is. If it is
> a styrene or
> polycarbonate, methylene chloride will dissolve it.
> Try a cheap (the
> cheaper the better) paint stripper. Most of them
> are based on methylene
> chloride. Be sure to use it in good ventilation,
> unless you want liver
> cancer. MEK will dissolve some plastics, as will
> toluene, but neither of
> them will work as fast as methylene chloride.
>
> If the plastic is polyethylene, I don't know of
> anything that will dissolve
> it. You might try melting it out in your wife's
> oven (wait till she's gone
> for a day or so, to get the smell out of the house).
> Put it in a disposable
> aluminum pie pan and let it cook at 400 degrees for
> a few hours. That
> should do it. Or melt or burn it out with a propane
> torch, but be very
> careful not to melt your aluminum. Perhaps if you
> wrap the outside with a
> wet washcloth to protect the aluminum you can burn
> out the plastic without
> damaging the aluminum.
>
> Are you going to be welding the fittings onto the
> aluminum? Do you know
> what alloy it is? Some are weldable, some are not.
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Dick and
> Marge Gillespie
> Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 2:56 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air-Oil Separator
>
> Marge Gillespie"
>
>
> I think I have a good aluminum jacket (from a
> discarded water filter
> cartridge) from which to make an air-oil separator
> as shown in Tony's
> "Firewall Forward" book. Only problem is it has a
> plastic liner about a
> 64th thick on the inside. Does anyone know of a
> product that will
> dissolve plastic without harming the aluminum which
> is about a 16th
> thick?
>
> DickG.
> Ft. Myers, FL
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://sports.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Rib building and Epoxy cleanup |
But they do make some mistakes, and have to wait for
the spare parts to arrive, instead of just building
another one...
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Jack Phillips wrote:
> Phillips"
>
> Sounds familiar. I made seven cabane strut fittings
> for the centersection
> to get four good ones. Same for the landing gear
> fittings. I swear I could
> build a second Pietenpol for two thirds the cost and
> in half the time. You
> definitely get an education doing this. Again, pity
> the kitbuilders. They
> just get to assemble things, not actually make them.
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Jeffrey
> Wilcox
> Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 9:00 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib building and
> Epoxy cleanup
>
>
> Welcome to the wonderful world of airplane
> building!!! Remember that this
> is supposed to be for recreation and education.
> Wish I had a dime for every
> part I've ever had to re-do.
>
> Craig
> Cutting his steel elevator apart to make it 4"
> longer!
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://sports.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage construction begins |
I had that same thought. I feel like I am way to close to the panel. My
fuselage is complete and covered and I am planning on building a long
fuselage at Sun N Fun. I would welcome any help. I am pre cutting the wood
and starting the steel fittings. I will bring the jig along. Just a hint,
this will be a somewhat unique fuselage. We will be working in the Wood
Forum Tent daily.
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: <Wizzard187(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage construction begins
>
> If I were starting over I would try to put that extra 2 inches between
the
> rear cockpit seatback and the instrumental panel. Mine is too close to my
> face to feel comfortable. Just a sugestion. If you can sit in one I
think
> you would see what I mean.
>
> Wizzard 187 in warming up Iowa
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
Unfortunately I had to "undo" some of my recent handy work. I found that
when I applied Polybrush it "glued" the fabric to the ribs. Took quite a
pull to get it to separate. I am stiching all ribs including tail feathers.
Like Steve said, it doesn't take long and give a little peace of mind.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kip & Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
> >
> >I was wondering if you should rib lace on the tail feathers. Is the
fabric
> >just glue'd on? I saw someone's pictures and they put little spacers
between
> >the tail ribs. I figured it was so they wouldn't get squeezed together
when
> >they were laced. But the plans don't call for them. Is glue fabric good
> >enough? is the fabric glue'd to the wing ribs also? I know they are
laced.
> >
>
> >George Allen
> >Harrisburg, PA
> >GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
> >(Peitenpol builder)
>
> I was checking some details on Frank Pavliga's Piet just yesterday. (Nice
> to have a reference plane only 20 min. away.) Happened to notice that he
> stiched all the tail feather surfaces.
>
> Don't know if he glued his wing fabric, but I think a lot of guys do.
> However, if I recall correctly what Jim & Dondi demonstrated at their
> Poly-Fiber workshop, they only glue the edges & let the fabric 'float'
over
> the ribs.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> 426 Schneider St. SE
> North Canton, OH 44720
> (330) 494-1775
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
Just wondering, is there a reason to thin T-88 for a Piet? My mix seems
buttery and goes on pretty good, drips pretty good too. Is T-88 the same
epoxy the fiberglass builders use on the lay-ups? I can see that being
thinned out to brush on. When I leave my T-88 in the garage and it gets too
cold, I zap it in the microwave for a minute to thin it.
I found that the wife's weight watcher digital scale requires a good amount
of glue in order to get a reading. Wasteful. So it's back to smaller
batches by eye.
Kent Hallsten
Oklahoma City
Finally got some rain!
Denatured alcohol is the thinner and cleaner-upper for T-88. Only works
while the glue is not yet hardened, but does a dynamite job.
_
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
Ted, The Poly-brush is supposed to adhere the fabric to the ribs. Its
applied after the leading and trailing edge are cemented and the fabric is
heat shrunk.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
> Unfortunately I had to "undo" some of my recent handy work. I found that
> when I applied Polybrush it "glued" the fabric to the ribs. Took quite a
> pull to get it to separate. I am stiching all ribs including tail
feathers.
> Like Steve said, it doesn't take long and give a little peace of mind.
>
> Ted
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kip & Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
>
>
> >
>
> > >
> > >I was wondering if you should rib lace on the tail feathers. Is the
> fabric
> > >just glue'd on? I saw someone's pictures and they put little spacers
> between
> > >the tail ribs. I figured it was so they wouldn't get squeezed together
> when
> > >they were laced. But the plans don't call for them. Is glue fabric
good
> > >enough? is the fabric glue'd to the wing ribs also? I know they are
> laced.
> > >
> >
> > >George Allen
> > >Harrisburg, PA
> > >GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
> > >(Peitenpol builder)
> >
> > I was checking some details on Frank Pavliga's Piet just yesterday.
(Nice
> > to have a reference plane only 20 min. away.) Happened to notice that he
> > stiched all the tail feather surfaces.
> >
> > Don't know if he glued his wing fabric, but I think a lot of guys do.
> > However, if I recall correctly what Jim & Dondi demonstrated at their
> > Poly-Fiber workshop, they only glue the edges & let the fabric 'float'
> over
> > the ribs.
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Kip Gardner
> >
> > 426 Schneider St. SE
> > North Canton, OH 44720
> > (330) 494-1775
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air-Oil Separator |
Thanks Jack and Gary. I think I might try the auto salvage yards for an old
style oil filter to convert. Still thinking.
DickG.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air-Oil Separator
>
> Maybe because I work with Stainless Steel, but I made
> a carburator hot air box with thin SS...
>
> Is very easy to weld with TIG and is not heavy.
>
> Hope I would live in USA, I will make you one for
> free, but is a problem to get it tax free to cross
> the border, and I think that the shipping will be more
> expensive that having the part built or bought over
> there...
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
>
>
> --- Jack Phillips wrote:
> > Phillips"
> >
> > Hi Dick,
> >
> > It depends on what kind of plastic it is. If it is
> > a styrene or
> > polycarbonate, methylene chloride will dissolve it.
> > Try a cheap (the
> > cheaper the better) paint stripper. Most of them
> > are based on methylene
> > chloride. Be sure to use it in good ventilation,
> > unless you want liver
> > cancer. MEK will dissolve some plastics, as will
> > toluene, but neither of
> > them will work as fast as methylene chloride.
> >
> > If the plastic is polyethylene, I don't know of
> > anything that will dissolve
> > it. You might try melting it out in your wife's
> > oven (wait till she's gone
> > for a day or so, to get the smell out of the house).
> > Put it in a disposable
> > aluminum pie pan and let it cook at 400 degrees for
> > a few hours. That
> > should do it. Or melt or burn it out with a propane
> > torch, but be very
> > careful not to melt your aluminum. Perhaps if you
> > wrap the outside with a
> > wet washcloth to protect the aluminum you can burn
> > out the plastic without
> > damaging the aluminum.
> >
> > Are you going to be welding the fittings onto the
> > aluminum? Do you know
> > what alloy it is? Some are weldable, some are not.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
> > On Behalf Of Dick and
> > Marge Gillespie
> > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 2:56 PM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air-Oil Separator
> >
> > Marge Gillespie"
> >
> >
> > I think I have a good aluminum jacket (from a
> > discarded water filter
> > cartridge) from which to make an air-oil separator
> > as shown in Tony's
> > "Firewall Forward" book. Only problem is it has a
> > plastic liner about a
> > 64th thick on the inside. Does anyone know of a
> > product that will
> > dissolve plastic without harming the aluminum which
> > is about a 16th
> > thick?
> >
> > DickG.
> > Ft. Myers, FL
> >
> >
> >
> > Forum -
> > Contributions of
> > any other form
> >
> > latest messages.
> > other List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/search
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> http://sports.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear |
Not on a curtiss jenny or most of the planes at Rhinebeck or the AF Museum
that have original wheels.
Chris b
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear
airplane wire wheel spokes are attached to the centerline of the rim.
----- Original Message -----
From: <DonanClara(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear
>
> In a message dated 03/13/2002 6:46:00 PM Central Standard Time,
> llneal2(at)earthlink.net writes:
>
> << Motorcycle wheels can handle reasonable
> side loads, sidecar people have done this for years, >>
> Larry..Every sidecar wire wheel I have seen is made like the aviation wire
> wheels of the twenties which were designed specifically to take side
loads.
> Next time you see one, note that the spokes are not attached to the rim on
> the centerline as are motorcycle wheels, but rather are positioned
outboard
> of centerline and have wider hubs. On the old Harleys (like my old 1935
VL-74
> with sidecar), the main wheels were conventional but the sidecar wheel,
which
> can be subjected to severe side loads on left turns was built as
mentioned.
> My 2 cents. Don
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:55:43 -0600
>
>Just wondering, is there a reason to thin T-88 for a Piet? My mix seems
>buttery and goes on pretty good, drips pretty good too. Is T-88 the same
>epoxy the fiberglass builders use on the lay-ups? I can see that being
>thinned out to brush on. When I leave my T-88 in the garage and it gets too
>cold, I zap it in the microwave for a minute to thin it.
I have not seen it used for fiberglassing - SystemThree makes other products too
to do that type of stuff. You can thin and use it as a sealer on your wood -
or so I have heard. I would imagine it would work well.
>
>I found that the wife's weight watcher digital scale requires a good amount
>of glue in order to get a reading. Wasteful. So it's back to smaller
>batches by eye.
Some good scales are listed in the Tools>>Contruction Equipment area of this site. http://www.lancair-es.com/.
Gary McNeel
>
>Kent Hallsten
>Oklahoma City
>Finally got some rain!
>
>
>
>Denatured alcohol is the thinner and cleaner-upper for T-88. Only works
>while the glue is not yet hardened, but does a dynamite job.
>_
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Glue clean-up |
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary McNeel, Jr.
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 2:26 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Glue clean-up
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)governair.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:55:43 -0600
>
>Just wondering, is there a reason to thin T-88 for a Piet? My mix
seems
>buttery and goes on pretty good, drips pretty good too. Is T-88 the
same
>epoxy the fiberglass builders use on the lay-ups? I can see that
being
>thinned out to brush on. When I leave my T-88 in the garage and it
gets too
>cold, I zap it in the microwave for a minute to thin it.
I+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is a tip form Steve's former list:
"A simple solution to warm your epoxy regularly, you can build a
cheap warmer box out of Celotex board and duct tape. Put a
temperature
switch in it from a farm supply like the ones used in incubators.
Hook a
lightbulb to the switch and your epoxy will reach and stay at just the
right
temp all the time".
Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
| Subject: | Please remove me from the list! |
I will be re-subcribing under a new email address!
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick and Marge Gillespie <dickmarg(at)peganet.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Air-Oil Separator
>
> Thanks Jack and Gary. I think I might try the auto salvage yards for an
old
> style oil filter to convert. Still thinking.
> DickG.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air-Oil Separator
>
>
> >
> > Maybe because I work with Stainless Steel, but I made
> > a carburator hot air box with thin SS...
> >
> > Is very easy to weld with TIG and is not heavy.
> >
> > Hope I would live in USA, I will make you one for
> > free, but is a problem to get it tax free to cross
> > the border, and I think that the shipping will be more
> > expensive that having the part built or bought over
> > there...
> >
> > Saludos
> > Gary Gower
> >
> >
> > --- Jack Phillips wrote:
> > > Phillips"
> > >
> > > Hi Dick,
> > >
> > > It depends on what kind of plastic it is. If it is
> > > a styrene or
> > > polycarbonate, methylene chloride will dissolve it.
> > > Try a cheap (the
> > > cheaper the better) paint stripper. Most of them
> > > are based on methylene
> > > chloride. Be sure to use it in good ventilation,
> > > unless you want liver
> > > cancer. MEK will dissolve some plastics, as will
> > > toluene, but neither of
> > > them will work as fast as methylene chloride.
> > >
> > > If the plastic is polyethylene, I don't know of
> > > anything that will dissolve
> > > it. You might try melting it out in your wife's
> > > oven (wait till she's gone
> > > for a day or so, to get the smell out of the house).
> > > Put it in a disposable
> > > aluminum pie pan and let it cook at 400 degrees for
> > > a few hours. That
> > > should do it. Or melt or burn it out with a propane
> > > torch, but be very
> > > careful not to melt your aluminum. Perhaps if you
> > > wrap the outside with a
> > > wet washcloth to protect the aluminum you can burn
> > > out the plastic without
> > > damaging the aluminum.
> > >
> > > Are you going to be welding the fittings onto the
> > > aluminum? Do you know
> > > what alloy it is? Some are weldable, some are not.
> > >
> > > Jack
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:
> > > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Dick and
> > > Marge Gillespie
> > > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 2:56 PM
> > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air-Oil Separator
> > >
> > > Marge Gillespie"
> > >
> > >
> > > I think I have a good aluminum jacket (from a
> > > discarded water filter
> > > cartridge) from which to make an air-oil separator
> > > as shown in Tony's
> > > "Firewall Forward" book. Only problem is it has a
> > > plastic liner about a
> > > 64th thick on the inside. Does anyone know of a
> > > product that will
> > > dissolve plastic without harming the aluminum which
> > > is about a 16th
> > > thick?
> > >
> > > DickG.
> > > Ft. Myers, FL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Forum -
> > > Contributions of
> > > any other form
> > >
> > > latest messages.
> > > other List members.
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > > http://www.matronics.com/search
> > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > http://sports.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
I beg to disagree, the fabric is not supposed to be glued to the ribs, there
is no reason for it. In most cases, the dope would lift the varnish from
the ribs, so ribs are usually covered with cellophane tape before covering.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
> Ted, The Poly-brush is supposed to adhere the fabric to the ribs. Its
> applied after the leading and trailing edge are cemented and the fabric is
> heat shrunk.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
>
>
> >
> > Unfortunately I had to "undo" some of my recent handy work. I found
that
> > when I applied Polybrush it "glued" the fabric to the ribs. Took quite
a
> > pull to get it to separate. I am stiching all ribs including tail
> feathers.
> > Like Steve said, it doesn't take long and give a little peace of mind.
> >
> > Ted
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kip & Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >I was wondering if you should rib lace on the tail feathers. Is the
> > fabric
> > > >just glue'd on? I saw someone's pictures and they put little spacers
> > between
> > > >the tail ribs. I figured it was so they wouldn't get squeezed
together
> > when
> > > >they were laced. But the plans don't call for them. Is glue fabric
> good
> > > >enough? is the fabric glue'd to the wing ribs also? I know they are
> > laced.
> > > >
> > >
> > > >George Allen
> > > >Harrisburg, PA
> > > >GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
> > > >(Peitenpol builder)
> > >
> > > I was checking some details on Frank Pavliga's Piet just yesterday.
> (Nice
> > > to have a reference plane only 20 min. away.) Happened to notice that
he
> > > stiched all the tail feather surfaces.
> > >
> > > Don't know if he glued his wing fabric, but I think a lot of guys do.
> > > However, if I recall correctly what Jim & Dondi demonstrated at their
> > > Poly-Fiber workshop, they only glue the edges & let the fabric 'float'
> > over
> > > the ribs.
> > >
> > > Cheers!
> > >
> > > Kip Gardner
> > >
> > > 426 Schneider St. SE
> > > North Canton, OH 44720
> > > (330) 494-1775
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear |
The wheels you are talking about on those kind of aircraft are "clincher"
type wheels which predate the 20's, not likely to be found on any Piet.
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka <bobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear
>
> Not on a curtiss jenny or most of the planes at Rhinebeck or the AF Museum
> that have original wheels.
>
> Chris b
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene
> Rambo
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear
>
>
> airplane wire wheel spokes are attached to the centerline of the rim.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <DonanClara(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 03/13/2002 6:46:00 PM Central Standard Time,
> > llneal2(at)earthlink.net writes:
> >
> > << Motorcycle wheels can handle reasonable
> > side loads, sidecar people have done this for years, >>
> > Larry..Every sidecar wire wheel I have seen is made like the aviation
wire
> > wheels of the twenties which were designed specifically to take side
> loads.
> > Next time you see one, note that the spokes are not attached to the rim
on
> > the centerline as are motorcycle wheels, but rather are positioned
> outboard
> > of centerline and have wider hubs. On the old Harleys (like my old 1935
> VL-74
> > with sidecar), the main wheels were conventional but the sidecar wheel,
> which
> > can be subjected to severe side loads on left turns was built as
> mentioned.
> > My 2 cents. Don
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
I just received a box of washers I bought specifically for making the
wheel retainers for the straight axle gear. They are 1 1/2 I.D. by 2
1/4 O.D. by .080 thick (the next size available was .135, which I
thought was too thick)
Any of you guys want some? I had to buy a whole box just to get the
four I need.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Wilcox" <craigwilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
In the Polyfiber process, there is NO dope used. Polybrush is a structural
adhesive vinyl that encapsulates the dacron fabric and assists it in
adhering to the material underneath.
Before covering the wing, the cotton inter-rib bracing tape is applied in
the main spar, and one line 2/3 back. This inter-rib bracing keeps your
ribs from being pulled too far sideways by the fabric as it tightens.
After the inter-rib bracing, you need to put anti-chafe cloth tape over the
rib. This is made in various widths to exactly match the width of your
capstrips. Keeps the fabric from wearing through on the edges of the
capstrips, and also protects the fabric from cutting as you pull your rib
stitches tight.
Next, you put on the cloth, using Polytak, an MEK-based adhesive. If it
takes a long time (over 5 minutes) to set up, it will probably dissolve any
finish on the wood or metal except epoxies. The Polytak is used on the LE
and TE, and all seams must have at least one inch overlap.
Now is the time to begin the heat shrinking process, followed by
ribstitching. Following this, a good coat of Polybrush is applied, and this
will make the cloth stick to anything underneath it.
A couple more coats of Polybrush - sprayed on!!! - and your fabric is well -
stuck to the structure. Now you can put on the silver and whatever finish
coat you want. All of Polyfiber's coating for cloth are referred to as
structural adhesives, and they all melt together to form one continuous
layer of vinyl.
Good luck with covering your Piets. The process is a first very
intimidating, but once you've done a rudder or an elevator, you'll come to
enjoy the process of putting clothes on your bird.
Craigo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
Ted and Gene,
On page 26 of my Poly-Fiber manual it says:
"Applying Poly-Brush does 2 things:
1. It seals the fabric.
2. It acts as a cement that soaks through the fabric and further secures the
fabric to the airframe."
You are supposed to brush on the first coat of Poly-Brush after you shrink
the fabric and before you rib lace.
The exception to this is when you have an undercurved airfoil like most
Piets have. In the case of the undercurved airfoil Appendix C of the
Poly-Fiber manual tells you how to glue the fabeic to the underside of the
wing ribs with Poly-Tack before you shrink the fabric.
I saw nothing in the manual about applying celophane tape to keep the fabric
from sticking to the ribs.
Wayne McIntosh
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
> Unfortunately I had to "undo" some of my recent handy work. I found that
> when I applied Polybrush it "glued" the fabric to the ribs. Took quite a
> pull to get it to separate. I am stiching all ribs including tail
feathers.
> Like Steve said, it doesn't take long and give a little peace of mind.
>
> Ted
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kip & Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
>
>
> >
>
> > >
> > >I was wondering if you should rib lace on the tail feathers. Is the
> fabric
> > >just glue'd on? I saw someone's pictures and they put little spacers
> between
> > >the tail ribs. I figured it was so they wouldn't get squeezed together
> when
> > >they were laced. But the plans don't call for them. Is glue fabric
good
> > >enough? is the fabric glue'd to the wing ribs also? I know they are
> laced.
> > >
> >
> > >George Allen
> > >Harrisburg, PA
> > >GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
> > >(Peitenpol builder)
> >
> > I was checking some details on Frank Pavliga's Piet just yesterday.
(Nice
> > to have a reference plane only 20 min. away.) Happened to notice that he
> > stiched all the tail feather surfaces.
> >
> > Don't know if he glued his wing fabric, but I think a lot of guys do.
> > However, if I recall correctly what Jim & Dondi demonstrated at their
> > Poly-Fiber workshop, they only glue the edges & let the fabric 'float'
> over
> > the ribs.
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Kip Gardner
> >
> > 426 Schneider St. SE
> > North Canton, OH 44720
> > (330) 494-1775
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wheel retainers |
>
>I just received a box of washers I bought specifically for making the
>wheel retainers for the straight axle gear. They are 1 1/2 I.D. by 2
>1/4 O.D. by .080 thick (the next size available was .135, which I
>thought was too thick)
>
>Any of you guys want some? I had to buy a whole box just to get the
>four I need.
>
>Gene
Gene,
That would be great! I'm planning on getting my gear together pretty soon.
I'm making a Cuyb-style gear, but still need 2 for the inner retainers.
What would be fair compensation?
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
cellophane tape is more of a dope thing. If you do glue the fabric to the
ribs on the undercamber, it is just to hold it in place until it is
stitched. The rib stitching holds the fabric up. I do not think the manual
literally means to hold the fabric to the ribs when it says "to the
airframe." Fabric would not shrink properly (cotton or dacron) if it was
firmly attached at every rib, that is why you don't rib stitch it first.
This isn't really a big deal, just semantics. Whoever started this thread
is doing it right.
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne McIntosh <mcintosh3017(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
> Ted and Gene,
> On page 26 of my Poly-Fiber manual it says:
> "Applying Poly-Brush does 2 things:
> 1. It seals the fabric.
> 2. It acts as a cement that soaks through the fabric and further secures
the
> fabric to the airframe."
> You are supposed to brush on the first coat of Poly-Brush after you shrink
> the fabric and before you rib lace.
> The exception to this is when you have an undercurved airfoil like most
> Piets have. In the case of the undercurved airfoil Appendix C of the
> Poly-Fiber manual tells you how to glue the fabeic to the underside of the
> wing ribs with Poly-Tack before you shrink the fabric.
> I saw nothing in the manual about applying celophane tape to keep the
fabric
> from sticking to the ribs.
> Wayne McIntosh
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
>
>
> >
> > Unfortunately I had to "undo" some of my recent handy work. I found
that
> > when I applied Polybrush it "glued" the fabric to the ribs. Took quite
a
> > pull to get it to separate. I am stiching all ribs including tail
> feathers.
> > Like Steve said, it doesn't take long and give a little peace of mind.
> >
> > Ted
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kip & Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >I was wondering if you should rib lace on the tail feathers. Is the
> > fabric
> > > >just glue'd on? I saw someone's pictures and they put little spacers
> > between
> > > >the tail ribs. I figured it was so they wouldn't get squeezed
together
> > when
> > > >they were laced. But the plans don't call for them. Is glue fabric
> good
> > > >enough? is the fabric glue'd to the wing ribs also? I know they are
> > laced.
> > > >
> > >
> > > >George Allen
> > > >Harrisburg, PA
> > > >GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
> > > >(Peitenpol builder)
> > >
> > > I was checking some details on Frank Pavliga's Piet just yesterday.
> (Nice
> > > to have a reference plane only 20 min. away.) Happened to notice that
he
> > > stiched all the tail feather surfaces.
> > >
> > > Don't know if he glued his wing fabric, but I think a lot of guys do.
> > > However, if I recall correctly what Jim & Dondi demonstrated at their
> > > Poly-Fiber workshop, they only glue the edges & let the fabric 'float'
> > over
> > > the ribs.
> > >
> > > Cheers!
> > >
> > > Kip Gardner
> > >
> > > 426 Schneider St. SE
> > > North Canton, OH 44720
> > > (330) 494-1775
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wheel retainers |
Gene, Count me in. - Larry
Kip & Beth Gardner wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I just received a box of washers I bought specifically for making the
>>wheel retainers for the straight axle gear. They are 1 1/2 I.D. by 2
>>1/4 O.D. by .080 thick (the next size available was .135, which I
>>thought was too thick)
>>
>>Any of you guys want some? I had to buy a whole box just to get the
>>four I need.
>>
>>Gene
>>
>
>Gene,
>
>That would be great! I'm planning on getting my gear together pretty soon.
>I'm making a Cuyb-style gear, but still need 2 for the inner retainers.
>
>What would be fair compensation?
>
>Cheers!
>
>Kip Gardner
>
>426 Schneider St. SE
>North Canton, OH 44720
>(330) 494-1775
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
I agree with gene.
Chris bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
cellophane tape is more of a dope thing. If you do glue the fabric to the
ribs on the undercamber, it is just to hold it in place until it is
stitched. The rib stitching holds the fabric up. I do not think the manual
literally means to hold the fabric to the ribs when it says "to the
airframe." Fabric would not shrink properly (cotton or dacron) if it was
firmly attached at every rib, that is why you don't rib stitch it first.
This isn't really a big deal, just semantics. Whoever started this thread
is doing it right.
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne McIntosh <mcintosh3017(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
> Ted and Gene,
> On page 26 of my Poly-Fiber manual it says:
> "Applying Poly-Brush does 2 things:
> 1. It seals the fabric.
> 2. It acts as a cement that soaks through the fabric and further secures
the
> fabric to the airframe."
> You are supposed to brush on the first coat of Poly-Brush after you shrink
> the fabric and before you rib lace.
> The exception to this is when you have an undercurved airfoil like most
> Piets have. In the case of the undercurved airfoil Appendix C of the
> Poly-Fiber manual tells you how to glue the fabeic to the underside of the
> wing ribs with Poly-Tack before you shrink the fabric.
> I saw nothing in the manual about applying celophane tape to keep the
fabric
> from sticking to the ribs.
> Wayne McIntosh
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
>
>
> >
> > Unfortunately I had to "undo" some of my recent handy work. I found
that
> > when I applied Polybrush it "glued" the fabric to the ribs. Took quite
a
> > pull to get it to separate. I am stiching all ribs including tail
> feathers.
> > Like Steve said, it doesn't take long and give a little peace of mind.
> >
> > Ted
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kip & Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >I was wondering if you should rib lace on the tail feathers. Is the
> > fabric
> > > >just glue'd on? I saw someone's pictures and they put little spacers
> > between
> > > >the tail ribs. I figured it was so they wouldn't get squeezed
together
> > when
> > > >they were laced. But the plans don't call for them. Is glue fabric
> good
> > > >enough? is the fabric glue'd to the wing ribs also? I know they are
> > laced.
> > > >
> > >
> > > >George Allen
> > > >Harrisburg, PA
> > > >GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
> > > >(Peitenpol builder)
> > >
> > > I was checking some details on Frank Pavliga's Piet just yesterday.
> (Nice
> > > to have a reference plane only 20 min. away.) Happened to notice that
he
> > > stiched all the tail feather surfaces.
> > >
> > > Don't know if he glued his wing fabric, but I think a lot of guys do.
> > > However, if I recall correctly what Jim & Dondi demonstrated at their
> > > Poly-Fiber workshop, they only glue the edges & let the fabric 'float'
> > over
> > > the ribs.
> > >
> > > Cheers!
> > >
> > > Kip Gardner
> > >
> > > 426 Schneider St. SE
> > > North Canton, OH 44720
> > > (330) 494-1775
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
Jeffry, The rib lacing is done after the fabric has been heat tightened and
the first coat of poly-brush has been brushed on the entire coverered wing.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Wilcox" <craigwilcox(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
> In the Polyfiber process, there is NO dope used. Polybrush is a
structural
> adhesive vinyl that encapsulates the dacron fabric and assists it in
> adhering to the material underneath.
>
> Before covering the wing, the cotton inter-rib bracing tape is applied in
> the main spar, and one line 2/3 back. This inter-rib bracing keeps your
> ribs from being pulled too far sideways by the fabric as it tightens.
>
> After the inter-rib bracing, you need to put anti-chafe cloth tape over
the
> rib. This is made in various widths to exactly match the width of your
> capstrips. Keeps the fabric from wearing through on the edges of the
> capstrips, and also protects the fabric from cutting as you pull your rib
> stitches tight.
>
> Next, you put on the cloth, using Polytak, an MEK-based adhesive. If it
> takes a long time (over 5 minutes) to set up, it will probably dissolve
any
> finish on the wood or metal except epoxies. The Polytak is used on the LE
> and TE, and all seams must have at least one inch overlap.
>
> Now is the time to begin the heat shrinking process, followed by
> ribstitching. Following this, a good coat of Polybrush is applied, and
this
> will make the cloth stick to anything underneath it.
>
> A couple more coats of Polybrush - sprayed on!!! - and your fabric is
well -
> stuck to the structure. Now you can put on the silver and whatever finish
> coat you want. All of Polyfiber's coating for cloth are referred to as
> structural adhesives, and they all melt together to form one continuous
> layer of vinyl.
>
> Good luck with covering your Piets. The process is a first very
> intimidating, but once you've done a rudder or an elevator, you'll come to
> enjoy the process of putting clothes on your bird.
> Craigo
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craigo <craigwilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
On Mon, 18 March 2002, "Mark" wrote:
> Jeffry (sic), The rib lacing is done after the fabric has been heat tightened
and
> the first coat of poly-brush has been brushed on the entire coverered wing.
> Mark
Marcus -
Entirely correct, and then the pinked-edge reinforcing tapes are applied over it
with more polybrush. Knew I was forgetting a step! Brain fart, I guess!!!
Thanks, mark!
Craig
Craig
Lake Worth, FL
Bakeng Duce NX96CW
PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart.
http://www.peoplepc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Static Discharge While Fabric Covering |
There is an excellent article in this month's Vintage Airplane magazine
about the dangers of static electricity sparking while wiping down fabric
with solvents during the covering process. The author got a spark from his
latex gloved hand to the fabric he was rubbing with a solvent soked rag and
watched his Casutt Racer go up in flames! I have scanned the article into
PowerPoint and can send it to any who are interested and aren't members of
the EAA Vintage Aircraft Association.
Corky, you probably don't need to worry about this - I don't think they've
ever heard of static electricity in Lousiana, due to humidity.
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
Here it is from the 1996 version of the Poly-Fiber manual
Appendix C: Concave-Bottom Wing
Concave-bottom wings require a different sequence of steps.
The basic plan is to rib lace earlier than normal in order to hold
the fabric into the concave lower shape while heat shrinking.
If you cover a concave wing following the steps in normal sequence,
the heat shrinking at 300 or 350 will pull the fabric off the lower
ribs. You'll wind up with a flat plane on the lower surface rather
than the desired concave curve, and your bottom fabric won't be
attached to anything.
Follw These Steps
1. Before you attach any fabric, brush the LOWER rib capstrips only
with two coats of Poly-Tak cement. Let the Poly-Tak dry.
2. Now attach the upper and lower wing fabric exactly as desribed in
the main section of this manual.
3. If you plan to rib lace (and we STRONGLY encourage you to do so),
do not cement the fabric to the top surface ribs.
4. Mix a solution of Poly-Tak thinned 1 to 1 with MEK. Brush this
into the fabric over the bottom rib capstrips.
This solution will soad through the fabric and soften the Poly-Tak
previously applied to the bottom rib capstrips. This will cement the
fabric to the concave bottom curve of the ribs.
5. After the Poly-Tak has thoroughly dried, heat-shrink the fabric on
both the top and bottom of the wing at 250
DO NOT GO ANY HIGHER THEN 250! If you do, you will almost certainly
pull the fabric away from the cement.
6. Do not apply Poly-Brush yet! Put on the reinforcing tape on [their
typo], and rib lace the entire wing.
7. When finished rib lacing, heat-shrink at 350, or 300 if
recommended by your kit manufacturer.
8. The rib lacing will hold the fabric to the concave lower wing shape.
9. NOW apply Poly-Brush, tape, and get back to the normal sequence.
Also, page 21 says "Never mark on fabric with anything but a #2
pencil or a chalk line. Pens, magic marker, etc. will bleed right
through you final paint."
I hope this helps and don't know if anything has changed since the 1996 manual
Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gdascomb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
In a message dated 3/19/02 8:32:26 AM Central Standard Time,
kirkh@unique-software.com writes:
> I hope this helps and don't know if anything has changed since the 1996
> manual
>
My July 1999 , Revision No. 19 manual says the same.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net> |
I'm trying to save some money and time on the covering process.I've
covered and painted my tailfeathers . I used the poly-fiber system up
thru Poly-brushing the tapes.Then I used 2 coats of latex Kilz primer
sealer to fill the weave.Both brushed very thin .Then 1 cross coat(gun
sprayed) of Rustoleum aluminum paint. Then 2 coats of Rustoleum for the
finish color. They look great and I 'm planning on doing the rest of the
Piet the same way unless someone can tell me a reason why this won't
work. Thanks for any input Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
I'm sure that will work, as far as getting a finish on the plane. Let me
know what it looks like after a few years of flying. Why save money and
time on something that absolutely determines how this project that you've
worked so hard on for so long will look for years to come? Have you ever
tried to patch fabric that was finished with enamel? I have. My J-3 Cub
had enamel on the fuselage. When the trim system needed repairing and a
hole had to be cut in the fabric, getting a patch to adhere was a nightmare.
The enamel had to be sanded off, down to good dope. For me, I will stick
with tried and true aircraft paint systems, probably PolyTone, but possibly
AeroThane. Aircraft fabric flexes and vibrates an awful lot. And repairs
are almost a certainty. I have no idea how you would make a repair on
latex.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
I'm trying to save some money and time on the covering process.I've
covered and painted my tailfeathers . I used the poly-fiber system up
thru Poly-brushing the tapes.Then I used 2 coats of latex Kilz primer
sealer to fill the weave.Both brushed very thin .Then 1 cross coat(gun
sprayed) of Rustoleum aluminum paint. Then 2 coats of Rustoleum for the
finish color. They look great and I 'm planning on doing the rest of the
Piet the same way unless someone can tell me a reason why this won't
work. Thanks for any input Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
Hello Mark. This is the only thing I can think of. Came from here:
http://polyfiber.com/stits/
"Can I use automotive paint over a Poly-Fiber base?"
Revision 20, July 2001, of the Poly-Fiber Procedure Manual No. 1 allows only Poly-Tone
or Aero-Thane topcoat paint over the fabric-covered components of certified
aircraft. This is a major change to the STC. Use of any other topcoat paint
over fabric will void the STC. The old rule that the STC was valid only "up
to the silver" and that any available topcoat paint could be used has changed.
The increasing use of brittle automotive polyurethane paints over the years
has caused enough cracking and delamination to cause the FAA to rethink approving
untested topcoat paint over fabric. Failed topcoat paints expose polyester
fabric to sunlight and UV damage. Poly-Tone and Aero-Thane have long service
records over fabric as well as established test data on file with the FAA. Additionally,
both paints have an FAA Parts Manufacturing Authority (PMA) which
allows their application on certified aircraft. This has no effect on the non-fabric
components. For instance, a J-3 Cub must have only Poly-Tone or Aero-Thane
over the fabric parts, but you could use enamel or anything else over the
metal struts, cowls, doors, etc. The key word is FABRIC. Experimental aircraft
are not bound by these changes; however, we do recommend using products with
a known track record on fabric.
NOTE: I know many people do use non-certified paints with NO problems. I just know
that I will be taking my son and other family members up and, for me, spending
a few hundred (or even thousand) extra dollars for the really good stuff
is well worth it. I can wait a few months extra to save the money.
My .03 cents worth.
-Gary
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:48:42 -0600
>
>I'm trying to save some money and time on the covering process.I've
>covered and painted my tailfeathers . I used the poly-fiber system up
>thru Poly-brushing the tapes.Then I used 2 coats of latex Kilz primer
>sealer to fill the weave.Both brushed very thin .Then 1 cross coat(gun
>sprayed) of Rustoleum aluminum paint. Then 2 coats of Rustoleum for the
>finish color. They look great and I 'm planning on doing the rest of the
>Piet the same way unless someone can tell me a reason why this won't
>work. Thanks for any input Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
Mark,
This is the stuff that interests me presently. PLEASE keep us informed about
this process.
Thanks
Corky in La also trying to save some money so his bride can get a new pair of
swamp boots.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
My comment is only if you know (or have done testing)
in how the latex primer attaches to the polybrush...
Because if not then the complete finishing will pill
off the cloth.
Remember that nothing attaches to the fabric, is
"mechanical" attached (around the strings rather than
glued).
I used in my project the latex system and only used
the fabric cement to attach the fabric to the ribs,
then the "normal" black latex and the finishing...
Results are very satisfactory...
But as everything, we have to remember that we become
"professional" test pilots of all our ideas, some have
more risk than others.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Mark wrote:
>
>
> I'm trying to save some money and time on the
> covering process.I've
> covered and painted my tailfeathers . I used the
> poly-fiber system up
> thru Poly-brushing the tapes.Then I used 2 coats of
> latex Kilz primer
> sealer to fill the weave.Both brushed very thin
> .Then 1 cross coat(gun
> sprayed) of Rustoleum aluminum paint. Then 2 coats
> of Rustoleum for the
> finish color. They look great and I 'm planning on
> doing the rest of the
> Piet the same way unless someone can tell me a
> reason why this won't
> work. Thanks for any input Mark
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://sports.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
Jack,
Latex finishing is wonderfull (in my personal point of
view). I had to make a repair the first day I got my
plane to the aerodrome... It was parked in the hangar
door, everybody in the club was looking at the strange
plane, I was answering questions, when one little kid
(7 years old) loosed his bike and made a hole in the
rudder! Poor kid and father were so ashamed, but I
like kids around (supervised for their security), so I
did not want the little kid (future pilot?) to feel
bad, and made the repair, with his help, right there
to show them how easy it was:
Just wiped the finishing down to the fabric with
acetone, glue a patch with cement and then aply 2
hands (30 min each) of color. in 2 hours in the sun
the color was exactly as all the rudder and was
dificult to find the place of te repair.
The patch was 3 x 5 inches... ouch!
I use good quality latex paint (7 years garanty when
painting the house) so I think the color will last 10
years minimun, because my plane is hangared all week
and only recieves the sun on Saturdays... Well, I will
let you know in 10 years (or 5) how is comming.
Saludos
Gary Gower
PS. By the way the kind was proud of beeing a plane
mechanic and help with the repair... Nothing but the
cement and the Acetone to wipe (That I aplied myself)
was dangerous for him to handle... The thinner is
plain water, name it H20 MEK? :-) :-)
--- Jack Phillips wrote:
... I have no idea how you would make a repair on
> latex.
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Mark
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:49 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
>
>
> I'm trying to save some money and time on the
> covering process.I've
> covered and painted my tailfeathers . I used the
> poly-fiber system up
> thru Poly-brushing the tapes.Then I used 2 coats of
> latex Kilz primer
> sealer to fill the weave.Both brushed very thin
> .Then 1 cross coat(gun
> sprayed) of Rustoleum aluminum paint. Then 2 coats
> of Rustoleum for the
> finish color. They look great and I 'm planning on
> doing the rest of the
> Piet the same way unless someone can tell me a
> reason why this won't
> work. Thanks for any input Mark
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://sports.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I posted this once before,but since the subject is current I repost
it for general information.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Re latex paint:
1) I used Sherman Willams products,
varnish, reducer, color & aircraft silver paste
2) Brush on two cross coats of varnish. Sand between coats & don't
spare the
tack rag.
3) mix silver paste (the quantity is on the can ) with 1/2 pint
reducer.
Dump that into the varnish can, & spray one cross coat. Sand & tack
rag. I
sprayed the silver ony on the top of the wing. Also I did not silver
the
bottom of the fuselage.
4) two cross coats of color & you are done.
Caution-varnish will run, so apply it only to a horizontal surface.
Good luck, but remember I did this 14 years ago, so I hope I got it
right.
Suggest you do a test piece first.
Mike B Piet N 687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
The cellophane tape was put on the ribs to keep the poly-tack from
melting the varnish.
That was before epoxy came along.This is from a 1940 Aircraft
Maintenance by
Daniel Brimm.
Dale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
>
>
> I posted this once before,but since the subject is current I repost
>it for general information.
>
>Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Re latex paint:
> 1) I used Sherman Willams products,
> varnish, reducer, color & aircraft silver paste
> 2) Brush on two cross coats of varnish. Sand between coats & don't
>spare the
> tack rag.
> 3) mix silver paste (the quantity is on the can ) with 1/2 pint
>reducer.
> Dump that into the varnish can, & spray one cross coat. Sand & tack
>rag. I
> sprayed the silver ony on the top of the wing. Also I did not silver
>the
> bottom of the fuselage.
> 4) two cross coats of color & you are done.
> Caution-varnish will run, so apply it only to a horizontal surface.
> Good luck, but remember I did this 14 years ago, so I hope I got it
>right.
> Suggest you do a test piece first.
>
> Mike B Piet N 687MB ( Mr Sam )
Mike,
These are all latex?, or a mix of latyex & polyurethane?
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: Kip & Beth Gardner
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: latex paint
>
>
> I posted this once before,but since the subject is current I
repost
>it for general information.
>
>Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Re latex paint:
> 1) I used Sherman Willams products,
> varnish, reducer, color & aircraft silver paste
> 2) Brush on two cross coats of varnish. Sand between coats & don't
>spare the
> tack rag.
> 3) mix silver paste (the quantity is on the can ) with 1/2 pint
>reducer.
> Dump that into the varnish can, & spray one cross coat. Sand & tack
>rag. I
> sprayed the silver ony on the top of the wing. Also I did not
silver
>the
> bottom of the fuselage.
> 4) two cross coats of color & you are done.
> Caution-varnish will run, so apply it only to a horizontal surface.
> Good luck, but remember I did this 14 years ago, so I hope I got it
>right.
> Suggest you do a test piece first.
>
> Mike B Piet N 687MB ( Mr Sam )
Mike,
These are all latex?, or a mix of latyex & polyurethane?
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The varnish & reducer were Sherman Williams products. The paint was
atari auto paint.
I used these products on the wings only. The fuselage was Stitts
stuff.
The wings still look good, at least I think so. It won't win best in
the show, but it worked for me & I saved a bundle.
Ed Snyder ( a premier Piet builder ), used the same stuff.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: motorcycle wheels on J-3 gear |
In a message dated 03/18/2002 4:28:30 PM Central Standard Time,
rambog(at)erols.com writes:
<< > Not on a curtiss jenny or most of the planes at Rhinebeck or the AF
Museum
> that have original wheels.
>
> Chris b >>
OK Chris, I stand corrected. Guess I ought to let the guys at the Ft. Rucker
Museum know that they've got the wrong wheels on their Jenny. Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
they didn't have poly tac in 1940. The tape was to prevent the dope from
lifting the varnish from the ribs after covering.
----- Original Message -----
From: D.Dale Johnson <dd5john(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
> The cellophane tape was put on the ribs to keep the poly-tack from
> melting the varnish.
> That was before epoxy came along.This is from a 1940 Aircraft
> Maintenance by
> Daniel Brimm.
> Dale
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Gene,
I'll take four. What's the price?
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wheel retainers
I just received a box of washers I bought specifically for making the
wheel retainers for the straight axle gear. They are 1 1/2 I.D. by 2
1/4 O.D. by .080 thick (the next size available was .135, which I
thought was too thick)
Any of you guys want some? I had to buy a whole box just to get the
four I need.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
OK how about an hour with distractions? :) Really, it doesn't take
very long.
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark [mailto:markmc(at)bluebonnet.net]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
I can't believe you did rib lacing on the vert. and horizotal surfaces
in
30 min? Mark----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
> I did stitch both vertical and horizontal surfaces. Took an extra 30
> minutes. I'd do it again....
>
> Steve Eldredge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark [mailto:markmc(at)bluebonnet.net]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
>
> Did you use rib stitching on the tail feathers? I attended one of the
> Poly-Fiber workshops last year and the instuctor told me rib stiching
or
> laceing was probably not needed on a Piet tail . Mark McKellar----
> Original
> Message -----
> From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
>
> >
> > How about a blue colored pencil then, just to make everyone happy.
> >
> > I used blue chalk to line up my stiches by running a spanwise chalk
> > line. I didn't need much other marking, but avoided using ink of
any
> > kind since I suspected it might bleed through. I think I used some
> > regular pencil markings however without a problem.
> >
> > Steve E
> >
> > PS. Trying to keep up with the list a bit more... You guys put up a
> ton
> > of email in a day! Hope building is going at the same pace. :)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Hofmann [mailto:jhofmann(at)charter.net]
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
> >
> >
> >
> > My manual (not the most current one) the video and Ray told me
himself
> > to
> > use blue ballpoint pen. Very strange.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > HOWEVER - the Polyfiber manula (if that is the process used)
> > repeatedly
> > > stresses to use PENCIL only.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
Steve , Well, I've only covered the vert. stab and rudder to paint so I
could still lace the horizontal stab and elevators.Think I'll do that. Did
you use the Poly-Fiber system?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
> OK how about an hour with distractions? :) Really, it doesn't take
> very long.
>
> Steve E
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark [mailto:markmc(at)bluebonnet.net]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
>
> I can't believe you did rib lacing on the vert. and horizotal surfaces
> in
> 30 min? Mark----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
>
> >
> > I did stitch both vertical and horizontal surfaces. Took an extra 30
> > minutes. I'd do it again....
> >
> > Steve Eldredge
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark [mailto:markmc(at)bluebonnet.net]
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
> >
> >
> > Did you use rib stitching on the tail feathers? I attended one of the
> > Poly-Fiber workshops last year and the instuctor told me rib stiching
> or
> > laceing was probably not needed on a Piet tail . Mark McKellar----
> > Original
> > Message -----
> > From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
> > To:
> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > > How about a blue colored pencil then, just to make everyone happy.
> > >
> > > I used blue chalk to line up my stiches by running a spanwise chalk
> > > line. I didn't need much other marking, but avoided using ink of
> any
> > > kind since I suspected it might bleed through. I think I used some
> > > regular pencil markings however without a problem.
> > >
> > > Steve E
> > >
> > > PS. Trying to keep up with the list a bit more... You guys put up a
> > ton
> > > of email in a day! Hope building is going at the same pace. :)
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: John Hofmann [mailto:jhofmann(at)charter.net]
> > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > My manual (not the most current one) the video and Ray told me
> himself
> > > to
> > > use blue ballpoint pen. Very strange.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > HOWEVER - the Polyfiber manula (if that is the process used)
> > > repeatedly
> > > > stresses to use PENCIL only.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
The more stitches, the longer it takes
so what's the total number of stitches
that you used? Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
> Steve , Well, I've only covered the vert. stab and rudder to paint so I
> could still lace the horizontal stab and elevators.Think I'll do that. Did
> you use the Poly-Fiber system?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
>
> >
> > OK how about an hour with distractions? :) Really, it doesn't take
> > very long.
> >
> > Steve E
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark [mailto:markmc(at)bluebonnet.net]
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
> >
> >
> > I can't believe you did rib lacing on the vert. and horizotal surfaces
> > in
> > 30 min? Mark----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
> > To:
> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I did stitch both vertical and horizontal surfaces. Took an extra 30
> > > minutes. I'd do it again....
> > >
> > > Steve Eldredge
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mark [mailto:markmc(at)bluebonnet.net]
> > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
> > >
> > >
> > > Did you use rib stitching on the tail feathers? I attended one of the
> > > Poly-Fiber workshops last year and the instuctor told me rib stiching
> > or
> > > laceing was probably not needed on a Piet tail . Mark McKellar----
> > > Original
> > > Message -----
> > > From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> > > > How about a blue colored pencil then, just to make everyone happy.
> > > >
> > > > I used blue chalk to line up my stiches by running a spanwise chalk
> > > > line. I didn't need much other marking, but avoided using ink of
> > any
> > > > kind since I suspected it might bleed through. I think I used some
> > > > regular pencil markings however without a problem.
> > > >
> > > > Steve E
> > > >
> > > > PS. Trying to keep up with the list a bit more... You guys put up a
> > > ton
> > > > of email in a day! Hope building is going at the same pace. :)
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: John Hofmann [mailto:jhofmann(at)charter.net]
> > > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My manual (not the most current one) the video and Ray told me
> > himself
> > > > to
> > > > use blue ballpoint pen. Very strange.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > HOWEVER - the Polyfiber manula (if that is the process used)
> > > > repeatedly
> > > > > stresses to use PENCIL only.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fabric question |
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
Sorry Gene
I meant to say dope . My mistake.
Dale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | fuselage gussets |
question... a quick answer is appreciated as I'm hoping to glue the fuse
gussets on the left side tonight.
The GN-1 plans are not clear on a certain area. Do the plywood gussets on
the insides need to have a 1x1 notch in them to allow the crossmembers to
contct the longerons when I join the sides, OR can I leave the gussets
without the notches and just butt the crossmembers to the gussets and then
gusset them over??
sheesh how many times can you use the word gusset in a sentence??
THX!
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage gussets |
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 6:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage gussets
can I leave the gussets
without the notches and just butt the crossmembers to the gussets and
then
gusset them over??
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yep, that's how it's done.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com> |
Received my plans today. More then likely I will not get started on the
plane until my house is sold, and I get into the new when I in fact find
one. Excited to get the plans and start planning on what to do first.
Seems that ribs are the obvious. I have not opened thr roll yet, just
looking at the manual. Homework first. Anyway, any advatages to doing
the ribs first, or the fuse, tailfeathers? I've built many R/C planes
and am familiar with "stick" building techniques. Thanks,
Doug B.
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
ArrowBear Lake Ca.
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage gussets |
DJ,
I did the 1x1 notch, seemed the simplest thing to do.
DickG.
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage gussets
>
> question... a quick answer is appreciated as I'm hoping to glue the fuse
> gussets on the left side tonight.
>
> The GN-1 plans are not clear on a certain area. Do the plywood gussets
on
> the insides need to have a 1x1 notch in them to allow the crossmembers to
> contct the longerons when I join the sides, OR can I leave the gussets
> without the notches and just butt the crossmembers to the gussets and then
> gusset them over??
>
> sheesh how many times can you use the word gusset in a sentence??
>
> THX!
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
I did my tail feathers first. Mainly because it seemed like it was the
easiet and quickest thing to build and actually look at and feel like I
accomplished something. Doing day after day of ribs gets boring mighty
quick. I've got 17 ribs done now and will crank one out when I'm waiting
for glue to dry on the fuse or while working on something else. Seems to me
to be the best way to do ribs. Otherwise you'll be building ribs for at
least 2 months straight... unless of course you build more than one rib jig
In any case since you've built lots of RC planes you'll find that it's
really not much different. Especially if you've built some large IMAC
planes in the 25-40% scale variety.
Studying the plans is actually quite fun. I read mine over and over again
for about 3 months. Every time I looked at them I found something I had
missed before.
DJ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of TWINBOOM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Plans,
Received my plans today. More then likely I will not get started on the
plane until my house is sold, and I get into the new when I in fact find
one. Excited to get the plans and start planning on what to do first.
Seems that ribs are the obvious. I have not opened thr roll yet, just
looking at the manual. Homework first. Anyway, any advatages to doing
the ribs first, or the fuse, tailfeathers? I've built many R/C planes
and am familiar with "stick" building techniques. Thanks,
Doug B.
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
ArrowBear Lake Ca.
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage gussets |
no, don't notch them. The gusset on the bottom holds the cross member in.
The gussets are all that connect the pieces for the whole aircraft.
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage gussets
>
> question... a quick answer is appreciated as I'm hoping to glue the fuse
> gussets on the left side tonight.
>
> The GN-1 plans are not clear on a certain area. Do the plywood gussets
on
> the insides need to have a 1x1 notch in them to allow the crossmembers to
> contct the longerons when I join the sides, OR can I leave the gussets
> without the notches and just butt the crossmembers to the gussets and then
> gusset them over??
>
> sheesh how many times can you use the word gusset in a sentence??
>
> THX!
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wheel retainers |
not much, a couple of dollars mostly to cover the postage. It'll be this
weekend before I get to it, though.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wheel retainers
>
> Hi Gene,
>
> I'll take four. What's the price?
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 6:17 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wheel retainers
>
>
> I just received a box of washers I bought specifically for making the
> wheel retainers for the straight axle gear. They are 1 1/2 I.D. by 2
> 1/4 O.D. by .080 thick (the next size available was .135, which I
> thought was too thick)
>
> Any of you guys want some? I had to buy a whole box just to get the
> four I need.
>
> Gene
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
Mark,
I tried some test panels using Rustoleum Alminum paint as the UV barrier
followed by latex gloss paint. The panels were 1' square and I used 1.8oz
dacron shrunk on wood frames. I left it out in the sun for over 3 years now.
I had my A&P friend test it with a maule tester after 2 years outdoors and
it passed. The problem is that the latex does not bond well to the
rustoleum. The way I tested the adhesion was to apply a strip of cheap 2"
masking tape to the panel and rip off the tape. The tape pulled off the
latex paint leaving the aluminum paint attached to the dacron. I tried the
same process using flat black latex house paint as a UV barrier and covered
the black latex with gloss color latex house paint. The tape test did not
pull off the latex over latex. This process is used on some of the planes
designed by Mike Fisher. I did not test the Fisher process since others
already have tested it. So when I painted my plane I used the following
process. I followed the Poly-Fiber manual to the letter until I had all the
tapes and rib lacing done including the Poly-Brush then I applied the black
latex followed by the gloss latex. My plane is 2 years old and it looks
fine. I have seen a Fisher Koala that was 11 years old with the same process
and it looked fine. You can remove the paint with acetone to make repairs. I
have seen 2 planes that were painted with enamel paint that had peeling
paint. I have seen others with enamel that did not peel. One problem I had
was that I used Glidden Bright Red as my finish coat. It takes 5 coats of
Bright Red to cover the black UV barrier. I think because of this that I
have a heavy paint job. Had I known this I would have painted my plane a
darker color that would not need as many coats. Also when I needed to make a
repair I found that Glidden had discontinued that color, I did manage to
match it with another brand. I think that you get the best in light weight
and durability with one of the STC aproved processes like Poly-Fiber ot
Randolph etc they just cost more.You can get acceptable results if you
experiment and do some testing yourself.
Wayne McIntosh
Ragwing Rag-A-Muffin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
> I'm trying to save some money and time on the covering process.I've
> covered and painted my tailfeathers . I used the poly-fiber system up
> thru Poly-brushing the tapes.Then I used 2 coats of latex Kilz primer
> sealer to fill the weave.Both brushed very thin .Then 1 cross coat(gun
> sprayed) of Rustoleum aluminum paint. Then 2 coats of Rustoleum for the
> finish color. They look great and I 'm planning on doing the rest of the
> Piet the same way unless someone can tell me a reason why this won't
> work. Thanks for any input Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017(at)insightbb.com> |
Doug,
You can build the ribs now they take up very little space. I know of
people who have built ribs in motel rooms while they were on business trips.
The fuselage takes up the most room and needs the most in time and money,
instruments,gear, engine etc.
Wayne McIntosh
----- Original Message -----
From: "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Plans,
>
> Received my plans today. More then likely I will not get started on the
> plane until my house is sold, and I get into the new when I in fact find
> one. Excited to get the plans and start planning on what to do first.
> Seems that ribs are the obvious. I have not opened thr roll yet, just
> looking at the manual. Homework first. Anyway, any advatages to doing
> the ribs first, or the fuse, tailfeathers? I've built many R/C planes
> and am familiar with "stick" building techniques. Thanks,
>
> Doug B.
>
> Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
> ArrowBear Lake Ca.
> Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | explosions and drifts |
There's an article in my feb. Lee Valley
catalogue everyone should read. A man
burned his hands and arms badly with his
belt sander polishing some steel. It just
goes to show what you can do to yourself
even though your doing it right.This one will
surprise you!
There are other good articles on various
topics such as glue removal, stainless
steel vrs. corrosion, etc,etc. 123 topics.
Go to www.leevalley.com .
Wooden boat has an excellent article on
scrapers and their use on epoxies in the
current issue. There's some other good
stuff in it too. See the rabbit plane on p37.
A while back there was some discussion
on bending the edges of horns. I had other
things on my mind and didn't think of this
until I had to repair a broken into coin box
on a washer. The answer is called a "drift"
This is a 6" length of 1/2" brass rod. You
hold it against the work and whack it.
No hammer marks and it puts the blow
exactly where you want it, every time. Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
Wayne , The latest thing that I've done with my rudder is (1) follow
Poly-Fiber thru poly-brush on the tapes.(2)Kilz latex primer 2 coats brushed
thin. (the kilz latex says that it can be finished with oil based or latex
paint)(3) One cross coat of Rustoleum aluminum (4) Two finish coats of
Rustoleum enamel. I can't see why there would be any problem with this.It's
been 5 days since I finished the rudder and it looks great. I haven't tried
the masking tape test. Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
> Mark,
> I tried some test panels using Rustoleum Alminum paint as the UV
barrier
> followed by latex gloss paint. The panels were 1' square and I used 1.8oz
> dacron shrunk on wood frames. I left it out in the sun for over 3 years
now.
> I had my A&P friend test it with a maule tester after 2 years outdoors and
> it passed. The problem is that the latex does not bond well to the
> rustoleum. The way I tested the adhesion was to apply a strip of cheap 2"
> masking tape to the panel and rip off the tape. The tape pulled off the
> latex paint leaving the aluminum paint attached to the dacron. I tried the
> same process using flat black latex house paint as a UV barrier and
covered
> the black latex with gloss color latex house paint. The tape test did not
> pull off the latex over latex. This process is used on some of the planes
> designed by Mike Fisher. I did not test the Fisher process since others
> already have tested it. So when I painted my plane I used the following
> process. I followed the Poly-Fiber manual to the letter until I had all
the
> tapes and rib lacing done including the Poly-Brush then I applied the
black
> latex followed by the gloss latex. My plane is 2 years old and it looks
> fine. I have seen a Fisher Koala that was 11 years old with the same
process
> and it looked fine. You can remove the paint with acetone to make repairs.
I
> have seen 2 planes that were painted with enamel paint that had peeling
> paint. I have seen others with enamel that did not peel. One problem I had
> was that I used Glidden Bright Red as my finish coat. It takes 5 coats of
> Bright Red to cover the black UV barrier. I think because of this that I
> have a heavy paint job. Had I known this I would have painted my plane a
> darker color that would not need as many coats. Also when I needed to make
a
> repair I found that Glidden had discontinued that color, I did manage to
> match it with another brand. I think that you get the best in light weight
> and durability with one of the STC aproved processes like Poly-Fiber ot
> Randolph etc they just cost more.You can get acceptable results if you
> experiment and do some testing yourself.
> Wayne McIntosh
> Ragwing Rag-A-Muffin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
>
> >
> > I'm trying to save some money and time on the covering process.I've
> > covered and painted my tailfeathers . I used the poly-fiber system up
> > thru Poly-brushing the tapes.Then I used 2 coats of latex Kilz primer
> > sealer to fill the weave.Both brushed very thin .Then 1 cross coat(gun
> > sprayed) of Rustoleum aluminum paint. Then 2 coats of Rustoleum for the
> > finish color. They look great and I 'm planning on doing the rest of the
> > Piet the same way unless someone can tell me a reason why this won't
> > work. Thanks for any input Mark
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
Doug,
I built the ribs first as I was recently divorced and renting a small house
at the time. I actually assembled the wings in the dining room and living
room. Then after the wings were finished, I built the tail, then the
fuselage. Everything else can be stored flat against the walls, but the
fuselage takes up some room.
There is no wrong choice.
Enjoy!
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TWINBOOM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Plans,
Received my plans today. More then likely I will not get started on the
plane until my house is sold, and I get into the new when I in fact find
one. Excited to get the plans and start planning on what to do first.
Seems that ribs are the obvious. I have not opened thr roll yet, just
looking at the manual. Homework first. Anyway, any advatages to doing
the ribs first, or the fuse, tailfeathers? I've built many R/C planes
and am familiar with "stick" building techniques. Thanks,
Doug B.
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
ArrowBear Lake Ca.
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Doug,
When ever you do your ribs, do make certain that you cut all of your rib
stock at the same time, with the same blade setting. It seems that it is very
difficult to cut "exactly" the same dimension a few weeks or months later.
You then end up with ribs that don't quite match when you attempt to put them
on the spar.
~Cheers,
~Warren
TWINBOOM wrote:
>
> Received my plans today. More then likely I will not get started on the
> plane until my house is sold, and I get into the new when I in fact find
> one. Excited to get the plans and start planning on what to do first.
> Seems that ribs are the obvious. I have not opened thr roll yet, just
> looking at the manual. Homework first. Anyway, any advatages to doing
> the ribs first, or the fuse, tailfeathers? I've built many R/C planes
> and am familiar with "stick" building techniques. Thanks,
>
> Doug B.
>
> Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
> ArrowBear Lake Ca.
> Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
Does anyone have any experience with Aircraft Finishing systems products?
From looking in their web site it looks like they use non-MEK,
water based cements and sealers. They claim their cement can go over one
part polyurethane sealer, no mention of having to coat glue surfaces with
epoxy varnish and paint. No hazardous fumes or solvents and (if I'm reading
it right) no worry about the solvents in the cement lifting emamel and
varnished finishes.If I'm reading this right it sounds like a great way to
go. Even if it was a little more expensive, you would save the cost and time
of applying the epoxy varnish and painting metal fittings with epoxy paints.
Someone on this list has brought up their products in the past. If this
non-lifting thing is true and their products are as good as they claim
please let me know. Thanks in advance. Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mark boynton <marktboynton(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
All,
Has anyone considered adding aluminum powder to white
latex paint for the fill coat/uv barrier instead of
using black latex? This might help solve the problem
of having to apply so many top coats to cover a black
UV barrier. I'd like to experiment with this, but I
don't know where to get aluminum powder. I've done a
Web search and looked in the AS all I've
come up with is an aluminum paste that is oil-based
and added to oil-based finishes. Where can I find
aluminum powder, and how would you determine how much
to add per unit of paint? Ideas, anyone?
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, AZ
--- Wayne McIntosh wrote:
> McIntosh"
>
> Mark,
> I tried some test panels using Rustoleum Alminum
> paint as the UV barrier
> followed by latex gloss paint. The panels were 1'
> square and I used 1.8oz
> dacron shrunk on wood frames. I left it out in the
> sun for over 3 years now.
> I had my A&P friend test it with a maule tester
> after 2 years outdoors and
> it passed. The problem is that the latex does not
> bond well to the
> rustoleum. The way I tested the adhesion was to
> apply a strip of cheap 2"
> masking tape to the panel and rip off the tape. The
> tape pulled off the
> latex paint leaving the aluminum paint attached to
> the dacron. I tried the
> same process using flat black latex house paint as a
> UV barrier and covered
> the black latex with gloss color latex house paint.
> The tape test did not
> pull off the latex over latex. This process is used
> on some of the planes
> designed by Mike Fisher. I did not test the Fisher
> process since others
> already have tested it. So when I painted my plane I
> used the following
> process. I followed the Poly-Fiber manual to the
> letter until I had all the
> tapes and rib lacing done including the Poly-Brush
> then I applied the black
> latex followed by the gloss latex. My plane is 2
> years old and it looks
> fine. I have seen a Fisher Koala that was 11 years
> old with the same process
> and it looked fine. You can remove the paint with
> acetone to make repairs. I
> have seen 2 planes that were painted with enamel
> paint that had peeling
> paint. I have seen others with enamel that did not
> peel. One problem I had
> was that I used Glidden Bright Red as my finish
> coat. It takes 5 coats of
> Bright Red to cover the black UV barrier. I think
> because of this that I
> have a heavy paint job. Had I known this I would
> have painted my plane a
> darker color that would not need as many coats. Also
> when I needed to make a
> repair I found that Glidden had discontinued that
> color, I did manage to
> match it with another brand. I think that you get
> the best in light weight
> and durability with one of the STC aproved processes
> like Poly-Fiber ot
> Randolph etc they just cost more.You can get
> acceptable results if you
> experiment and do some testing yourself.
> Wayne McIntosh
> Ragwing Rag-A-Muffin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
>
>
> >
> > I'm trying to save some money and time on the
> covering process.I've
> > covered and painted my tailfeathers . I used the
> poly-fiber system up
> > thru Poly-brushing the tapes.Then I used 2 coats
> of latex Kilz primer
> > sealer to fill the weave.Both brushed very thin
> .Then 1 cross coat(gun
> > sprayed) of Rustoleum aluminum paint. Then 2
> coats of Rustoleum for the
> > finish color. They look great and I 'm planning on
> doing the rest of the
> > Piet the same way unless someone can tell me a
> reason why this won't
> > work. Thanks for any input Mark
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://movies.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AFS Cecobond |
There is a forum on these products put on by Blue Sky Aviation
(www.blskyav.com) at Sun n Fun nearly every day. Check their website for
dates and times. They told me it lasts about an hour. I'm interested also.
DickG.
Ft. Myers, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: AFS Cecobond
>
>
> Does anyone have any experience with Aircraft Finishing systems
products?
> >From looking in their web site it looks like they use non-MEK,
> water based cements and sealers. They claim their cement can go over one
> part polyurethane sealer, no mention of having to coat glue surfaces with
> epoxy varnish and paint. No hazardous fumes or solvents and (if I'm
reading
> it right) no worry about the solvents in the cement lifting emamel and
> varnished finishes.If I'm reading this right it sounds like a great way to
> go. Even if it was a little more expensive, you would save the cost and
time
> of applying the epoxy varnish and painting metal fittings with epoxy
paints.
> Someone on this list has brought up their products in the past. If this
> non-lifting thing is true and their products are as good as they claim
> please let me know. Thanks in advance. Ed
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | email from John Grega |
I got an email from John Grega this morning.
Says he's been following my progress... he's a nit picky old dude
Says I should have NOT lengthened my fuselage. Says the CG will be way off
and wont be able to even get it in the air. ??!!*%&
* WHAT?!
I did the math... pushed my seat back a couple inches and moved the firewall
forward a bit. The CG should be fine. There are plenty of guys
lengthening the Piet right?? Todays pilots are much taller than 1929.]
Should I have heeded his warnings or is he just being an old fart?! geeeez
he's got to be around 85 or so now...
This isn't my first email from him where he was telling me I'm doing it all
wrong. Any other GN-1 builders had to deal with his stuff?
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: email from John Grega |
Hi DJ,
I have both Piet and Grega plans. The Grega is already lengthened, as
compared to the "original" Piet and is very similar to the "improved" Piet,
except the location of the fuselage side stations.
If you have lengthened the Grega, do be certain of your weight and balance
calculations, and if your all up weight is not excessive, you should be OK.
~Cheers,
~Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: email from John Grega |
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 11:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: email from John Grega
I got an email from John Grega this morning.
Says he's been following my progress... he's a nit picky old dude
Says I should have NOT lengthened my fuselage. Says the CG will be
way off
and wont be able to even get it in the air. ??!!*%&
* WHAT?!
I did the math... pushed my seat back a couple inches and moved the
firewall
forward a bit. The CG should be fine. There are plenty of guys
lengthening the Piet right?? Todays pilots are much taller than
1929.]
Should I have heeded his warnings or is he just being an old fart?!
geeeez
he's got to be around 85 or so now...
This isn't my first email from him where he was telling me I'm doing
it all
wrong. Any other GN-1 builders had to deal with his stuff?
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Egads, Ray is back.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
=
=
messages.
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: email from John Grega |
DJ-----Ask John Grega if he's ever built a copy of his own design, would you ?
He lives about 30 minutes from me. Met him at a fly in a few years ago and he
asked me why I didn't build his design. Said "Pietenpol built 26 of his
design.....
how many have you built ?" He was cranky back then even.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | chrome metal parts ? |
there's a few metal parts/brackets I was thinking about having chromed. I
have a long history in custom sport truck building where polished billet and
chrome equal godliness. Somehow with me it's carried over to planes as
well :-)
What are the ramifications to having some parts chromed? mainly the tail
surface wire support tabs, rudder, elevator, aileron horns, etc. Is there
any corrosion or other negative effects with having chromed parts?
I know some of you will need to tell me I'm adding weight by chroming.....
blah blah blah.
I'm not interested that..... I just wanna know if it's safe.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: chrome metal parts ? |
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)charter.net> |
That is the huge no-no known as hydrogen embrittlement. The jist is the
hydrogen atoms in the chroming process weaken the steel. I have seen chromed
landing gear on a Citabria snap under a minor load. If the part is purely
cosmetic (rocker box covers for example) that is okay, but not on load
bearing or control parts.
-john-
>
> there's a few metal parts/brackets I was thinking about having chromed. I
> have a long history in custom sport truck building where polished billet and
> chrome equal godliness. Somehow with me it's carried over to planes as
> well :-)
>
> What are the ramifications to having some parts chromed? mainly the tail
> surface wire support tabs, rudder, elevator, aileron horns, etc. Is there
> any corrosion or other negative effects with having chromed parts?
>
> I know some of you will need to tell me I'm adding weight by chroming.....
> blah blah blah.
>
> I'm not interested that..... I just wanna know if it's safe.
>
> DJ
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harry21556(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: chrome metal parts ? |
Hydrogen embrittlement is easiely cured by baking the part in a oven for
a few hours, any crome shop should know how to do it and how to test the part
to be sure it is back to its original strenth.
Of course , this is something you have to ask for when you send them the
part ,, and pay extra for.
hth,
Harry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | chrome metal parts ? |
I agree with John. I used to work for Menasco Manufacturing Co., building
landing gear for F-16's (among other planes). Chrome plating was never used
on structural parts. Ti-Cad plating was used some, even though that also
caused hydrogen embrittlement, but the parts were then baked for several
hours in a vacuum heat treat oven. Unless you have acess to such equipment,
I would stay away from chroming the tail brace wires. If you want them
shiny, get Brunton Stainless Steel wires and then polish them.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Hofmann
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ?
That is the huge no-no known as hydrogen embrittlement. The jist is the
hydrogen atoms in the chroming process weaken the steel. I have seen chromed
landing gear on a Citabria snap under a minor load. If the part is purely
cosmetic (rocker box covers for example) that is okay, but not on load
bearing or control parts.
-john-
>
> there's a few metal parts/brackets I was thinking about having chromed.
I
> have a long history in custom sport truck building where polished billet
and
> chrome equal godliness. Somehow with me it's carried over to planes as
> well :-)
>
> What are the ramifications to having some parts chromed? mainly the tail
> surface wire support tabs, rudder, elevator, aileron horns, etc. Is
there
> any corrosion or other negative effects with having chromed parts?
>
> I know some of you will need to tell me I'm adding weight by chroming.....
> blah blah blah.
>
> I'm not interested that..... I just wanna know if it's safe.
>
> DJ
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: chrome metal parts ? |
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)charter.net> |
From NHRA website:
The decorative-plating dilemma
Unfortunately, all is not bliss with chrome plate, and this is particularly
important when it comes to race cars. Decorative chroming creates a
by-product called hydrogen embrittlement. Due to the use of various forms of
acid during the cleaning stages of chrome plating, a hydrogen by-product is
released into the tank which is then absorbed by the metal part being
cleaned. Additionally, some theories regarding the problem revolve around
the electrolytic process. When a current is applied to a parent metal, it
too can create brittleness. As the name implies, hydrogen embrittlement
causes the parent metal to become brittle, and eventually it can crack under
stress.
Heat treating
Some methods of heat treating lessen the chance of hydrogen embrittlement,
but they are only Band-Aid fixes. The most common heat-treating process
involves baking the chrome-plated part in a special oven at approximately
375 to 400 F for a predetermined time. Theory has it that the heat pulls the
free hydrogen atoms from the metal pores, reducing the chance of
embrittlement.
With this in mind, it becomes very clear that chrome plating of load-bearing
members isn't too desirable.
Bottom line: Do what you want. But if that tail brace bracket snaps, you may
die. Is the risk worth the shine? Yes that Citabria gear was heat treated.
It didn't work. But since I got to rebuild the broken wing I guess it was
good for me. All the lectures on not chroming things in A&P school must have
sunk in.
I have said my peace and am done with this thread.
TakeCare,
-john-
>
> Hydrogen embrittlement is easiely cured by baking the part in a oven for
> a few hours, any crome shop should know how to do it and how to test the part
> to be sure it is back to its original strenth.
> Of course , this is something you have to ask for when you send them the
> part ,, and pay extra for.
> hth,
> Harry
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
I will advise to build the ribs, tail feathers and all
the small parts you can, in spare time... Even if you
do not live in your new home.
At the moment you are settled down, you wil notice how
much you have already advanced... when you are
"oficialy" starting your project.
Sometimes it takes vewry long to buy a new house... In
fact maybe you can look for the new house (with a BIG
backyard "strip") from your Piet's cockpit ;.)
Building parts is better than watching TV news in the
night.
Saludos
Gary Gower
>
>
> Received my plans today. More then likely I will not
> get started on the
> plane until my house is sold, and I get into the new
> when I in fact find
> one. Excited to get the plans and start planning on
> what to do first.
> Seems that ribs are the obvious. I have not opened
> thr roll yet, just
> looking at the manual. Homework first. Anyway, any
> advatages to doing
> the ribs first, or the fuse, tailfeathers? I've
> built many R/C planes
> and am familiar with "stick" building techniques.
> Thanks,
>
> Doug B.
>
> Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
> ArrowBear Lake Ca.
> Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca.
> http://inlandsloperebels.com
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
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>
>
>
>
>
http://movies.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
My plane is painted yellow with blue trim, also all
latex, I used 1 hand of white over the black, then
the yellow and were only 3 layers (total white &
yellow) plus the blue trim that covered the yellow
with no problem.
Just got six months, so nothing to comment yet about
the longevity, but sures look pretty :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
Pouchel (Ladder Flying Flea)
--- Wayne McIntosh wrote:
> McIntosh"
>
> Mark,
> I tried some test panels using Rustoleum Alminum
> paint as the UV barrier
> followed by latex gloss paint. The panels were 1'
> square and I used 1.8oz
> dacron shrunk on wood frames. I left it out in the
> sun for over 3 years now.
> I had my A&P friend test it with a maule tester
> after 2 years outdoors and
> it passed. The problem is that the latex does not
> bond well to the
> rustoleum. The way I tested the adhesion was to
> apply a strip of cheap 2"
> masking tape to the panel and rip off the tape. The
> tape pulled off the
> latex paint leaving the aluminum paint attached to
> the dacron. I tried the
> same process using flat black latex house paint as a
> UV barrier and covered
> the black latex with gloss color latex house paint.
> The tape test did not
> pull off the latex over latex. This process is used
> on some of the planes
> designed by Mike Fisher. I did not test the Fisher
> process since others
> already have tested it. So when I painted my plane I
> used the following
> process. I followed the Poly-Fiber manual to the
> letter until I had all the
> tapes and rib lacing done including the Poly-Brush
> then I applied the black
> latex followed by the gloss latex. My plane is 2
> years old and it looks
> fine. I have seen a Fisher Koala that was 11 years
> old with the same process
> and it looked fine. You can remove the paint with
> acetone to make repairs. I
> have seen 2 planes that were painted with enamel
> paint that had peeling
> paint. I have seen others with enamel that did not
> peel. One problem I had
> was that I used Glidden Bright Red as my finish
> coat. It takes 5 coats of
> Bright Red to cover the black UV barrier. I think
> because of this that I
> have a heavy paint job. Had I known this I would
> have painted my plane a
> darker color that would not need as many coats. Also
> when I needed to make a
> repair I found that Glidden had discontinued that
> color, I did manage to
> match it with another brand. I think that you get
> the best in light weight
> and durability with one of the STC aproved processes
> like Poly-Fiber ot
> Randolph etc they just cost more.You can get
> acceptable results if you
> experiment and do some testing yourself.
> Wayne McIntosh
> Ragwing Rag-A-Muffin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
>
>
> >
> > I'm trying to save some money and time on the
> covering process.I've
> > covered and painted my tailfeathers . I used the
> poly-fiber system up
> > thru Poly-brushing the tapes.Then I used 2 coats
> of latex Kilz primer
> > sealer to fill the weave.Both brushed very thin
> .Then 1 cross coat(gun
> > sprayed) of Rustoleum aluminum paint. Then 2
> coats of Rustoleum for the
> > finish color. They look great and I 'm planning on
> doing the rest of the
> > Piet the same way unless someone can tell me a
> reason why this won't
> > work. Thanks for any input Mark
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://movies.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
Here you can find Aluminum powder in the old style
stores that sell powders for painting, kerosen, wax
per the pound, nails, etc. my first plane (VP-1) was
covered the old style (dope) and we had to blend the
powder to the dope.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- mark boynton wrote:
>
>
> All,
>
> Has anyone considered adding aluminum powder to
> white
> latex paint for the fill coat/uv barrier instead of
> using black latex? This might help solve the
> problem
> of having to apply so many top coats to cover a
> black
> UV barrier. I'd like to experiment with this, but I
> don't know where to get aluminum powder. I've done
> a
> Web search and looked in the AS all I've
> come up with is an aluminum paste that is oil-based
> and added to oil-based finishes. Where can I find
> aluminum powder, and how would you determine how
> much
> to add per unit of paint? Ideas, anyone?
>
> Mark Boynton
> Gilbert, AZ
>
> --- Wayne McIntosh
> wrote:
> > McIntosh"
> >
> > Mark,
> > I tried some test panels using Rustoleum
> Alminum
> > paint as the UV barrier
> > followed by latex gloss paint. The panels were 1'
> > square and I used 1.8oz
> > dacron shrunk on wood frames. I left it out in the
> > sun for over 3 years now.
> > I had my A&P friend test it with a maule tester
> > after 2 years outdoors and
> > it passed. The problem is that the latex does not
> > bond well to the
> > rustoleum. The way I tested the adhesion was to
> > apply a strip of cheap 2"
> > masking tape to the panel and rip off the tape.
> The
> > tape pulled off the
> > latex paint leaving the aluminum paint attached to
> > the dacron. I tried the
> > same process using flat black latex house paint as
> a
> > UV barrier and covered
> > the black latex with gloss color latex house
> paint.
> > The tape test did not
> > pull off the latex over latex. This process is
> used
> > on some of the planes
> > designed by Mike Fisher. I did not test the Fisher
> > process since others
> > already have tested it. So when I painted my plane
> I
> > used the following
> > process. I followed the Poly-Fiber manual to the
> > letter until I had all the
> > tapes and rib lacing done including the Poly-Brush
> > then I applied the black
> > latex followed by the gloss latex. My plane is 2
> > years old and it looks
> > fine. I have seen a Fisher Koala that was 11 years
> > old with the same process
> > and it looked fine. You can remove the paint with
> > acetone to make repairs. I
> > have seen 2 planes that were painted with enamel
> > paint that had peeling
> > paint. I have seen others with enamel that did not
> > peel. One problem I had
> > was that I used Glidden Bright Red as my finish
> > coat. It takes 5 coats of
> > Bright Red to cover the black UV barrier. I think
> > because of this that I
> > have a heavy paint job. Had I known this I would
> > have painted my plane a
> > darker color that would not need as many coats.
> Also
> > when I needed to make a
> > repair I found that Glidden had discontinued that
> > color, I did manage to
> > match it with another brand. I think that you get
> > the best in light weight
> > and durability with one of the STC aproved
> processes
> > like Poly-Fiber ot
> > Randolph etc they just cost more.You can get
> > acceptable results if you
> > experiment and do some testing yourself.
> > Wayne McIntosh
> > Ragwing Rag-A-Muffin
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I'm trying to save some money and time on the
> > covering process.I've
> > > covered and painted my tailfeathers . I used the
> > poly-fiber system up
> > > thru Poly-brushing the tapes.Then I used 2 coats
> > of latex Kilz primer
> > > sealer to fill the weave.Both brushed very thin
> > .Then 1 cross coat(gun
> > > sprayed) of Rustoleum aluminum paint. Then 2
> > coats of Rustoleum for the
> > > finish color. They look great and I 'm planning
> on
> > doing the rest of the
> > > Piet the same way unless someone can tell me a
> > reason why this won't
> > > work. Thanks for any input Mark
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Forum -
> > Contributions of
> > any other form
> >
> > latest messages.
> > other List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/search
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> http://movies.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
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> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://movies.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: email from John Grega |
Something I have learned in this years (15) of
building planes is that the worse thing you can do is
tell the designer that you are going to "improve"
(name it modify) his wonderfull creation.
That might cause then a Stroke or a Heart Attack! :0)
Few will admit that their plane can be improved.
That is something they hate and are frightened, maybe
because of your liability "culture" you have in USA...
Mr Grega will not accept any change in his plane, Got
a letter from him about 12 years ago... Because of
his reasons (here is $impossible$ to buy a Continental
Engine) I did not bought his plans, even that they
were inexpensive.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- DJ Vegh wrote:
>
>
> I got an email from John Grega this morning.
>
> Says he's been following my progress... he's a nit
> picky old dude
> Says I should have NOT lengthened my fuselage.
> Says the CG will be way off
> and wont be able to even get it in the air.
> ??!!*%&
* WHAT?!
>
> I did the math... pushed my seat back a couple
> inches and moved the firewall
> forward a bit. The CG should be fine. There are
> plenty of guys
> lengthening the Piet right?? Todays pilots are much
> taller than 1929.]
>
> Should I have heeded his warnings or is he just
> being an old fart?! geeeez
> he's got to be around 85 or so now...
>
> This isn't my first email from him where he was
> telling me I'm doing it all
> wrong. Any other GN-1 builders had to deal with his
> stuff?
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://movies.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: chrome metal parts ? |
ok... I've heard all I need to hear. no chroming. by the way Jack, I
wasn't talking about chroming the tail wires, just the 4130 tabs they mount
to.
So, now that chroming seems out of the picture, whats wrong with mirror
polished 6061 ?
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ?
>
> I agree with John. I used to work for Menasco Manufacturing Co., building
> landing gear for F-16's (among other planes). Chrome plating was never
used
> on structural parts. Ti-Cad plating was used some, even though that also
> caused hydrogen embrittlement, but the parts were then baked for several
> hours in a vacuum heat treat oven. Unless you have acess to such
equipment,
> I would stay away from chroming the tail brace wires. If you want them
> shiny, get Brunton Stainless Steel wires and then polish them.
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Hofmann
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:54 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ?
>
>
> That is the huge no-no known as hydrogen embrittlement. The jist is the
> hydrogen atoms in the chroming process weaken the steel. I have seen
chromed
> landing gear on a Citabria snap under a minor load. If the part is purely
> cosmetic (rocker box covers for example) that is okay, but not on load
> bearing or control parts.
>
> -john-
>
>
> >
> > there's a few metal parts/brackets I was thinking about having chromed.
> I
> > have a long history in custom sport truck building where polished billet
> and
> > chrome equal godliness. Somehow with me it's carried over to planes as
> > well :-)
> >
> > What are the ramifications to having some parts chromed? mainly the
tail
> > surface wire support tabs, rudder, elevator, aileron horns, etc. Is
> there
> > any corrosion or other negative effects with having chromed parts?
> >
> > I know some of you will need to tell me I'm adding weight by
chroming.....
> > blah blah blah.
> >
> > I'm not interested that..... I just wanna know if it's safe.
> >
> > DJ
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Sheets" <doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: chrome metal parts ? |
Make sure your chrome plater knows the parts are for an airplane and they
will take extra measures to preclude hydrogen embrittlement.
>From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ?
>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:27:35 -0700
>
>
>there's a few metal parts/brackets I was thinking about having chromed. I
>have a long history in custom sport truck building where polished billet
>and
>chrome equal godliness. Somehow with me it's carried over to planes as
>well :-)
>
>What are the ramifications to having some parts chromed? mainly the tail
>surface wire support tabs, rudder, elevator, aileron horns, etc. Is there
>any corrosion or other negative effects with having chromed parts?
>
>I know some of you will need to tell me I'm adding weight by chroming.....
>blah blah blah.
>
>I'm not interested that..... I just wanna know if it's safe.
>
>DJ
>
>
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: chrome metal parts ? |
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
Hi DJ
Try powder coating. New color available ALMOST CHROME. It looks like
real chrome and will protect the metal from rust.
D J Mpls.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight test plan |
Larry (and anyone else getting ready to have their "First Flight),
Sorry I am over a month late in replying to this. I have been soo involved
with building my Piet (and catching up with Fisherman's lengthy sagas) that
I got
over a month behind in email reading.
I am an EAA Flight Advisor. There is an EAA Tech Counselor (that has been
refered to here from time to time) that inspects your work during the
building process. When you have it finished you should then involve a
Flight Advisor before you fly for the first time. In fact, I believe that
some insurance companies require it before they will insure you. The flight
advisor will help you decide if you are ready to fly in your new plane.
S/he will have a check list and discuss your abilities as well as the planes
characteristics. There is also an EAA video called First Flight. Exellent.
I would suggest you find a Flight Advisor soon and begin the process. The
situation I keep running into is that pilots contact me the day before they
want to fly (probably because the insurance company told them they had to).
When we talk and find out they have been so busy building that they haven't
flown ANY airplane in the past ____ years it is difficult to convince them
that they should take some flying lessons from a CFI to become current in a
plane they know flys well. It is scary enough to have an aircraft that has
never been off the ground before-and then add in a rusty pilot.
I am not trying to scare you but just get you thinking about it soon enough
to enter this phase of aircraft constuction in a calm and orderly and safe
manner.
Safe flying.
Ted Brousseau
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Neal" <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flight test plan
>
> Nowhere near needing it yet, but was today thinking about a flight
> testing plan.
>
> There is nothing in the archives and I've yet to find anything on the
> net, but I think this would be a good Idea to do and a good addition to
> the archives.
>
> If nothing turns up, I will want to put one together myself, so let me
> know if anyone finds anything or has suggestions. Anything in Mr. B's
> books?
>
> As it happens I have a good friend who is a real live test pilot and
> member of the national Association of Professional Test Pilots. Whether
> we draw one up from scratch or find something, I'll run it by him.
> Maybe we can get a stamp of approval and more brownie points for the
> final inspection.
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight test plan |
Ted,
Thanks for the note and clearing up the distinction on Flight Advisors
vs Technical Counselors.
I agree with everything you say. We fly a variety of aircraft and I
often get the chance to "test fly" after repairs and annuals etc. This
can be scary enough in certified aircraft. ;-) I'm looking up Tech
Counselor's in my area and will add an Advisor to my list. I have also
found a wealth of test program information thanks to replies.
I'd go so far as to recommend that any builder get a taildragger
refresher before first flight even if current and proficient. Flying a
couple of different types is a good idea too. They don't all fly the
same, except that you always fly them until they're tied down.
Larry
Ted Brousseau wrote:
>
>Larry (and anyone else getting ready to have their "First Flight),
>
>Sorry I am over a month late in replying to this. I have been soo involved
>with building my Piet (and catching up with Fisherman's lengthy sagas) that
>I got
>over a month behind in email reading.
>
>I am an EAA Flight Advisor. There is an EAA Tech Counselor (that has been
>refered to here from time to time) that inspects your work during the
>building process. When you have it finished you should then involve a
>Flight Advisor before you fly for the first time. In fact, I believe that
>some insurance companies require it before they will insure you. The flight
>advisor will help you decide if you are ready to fly in your new plane.
>S/he will have a check list and discuss your abilities as well as the planes
>characteristics. There is also an EAA video called First Flight. Exellent.
>
>I would suggest you find a Flight Advisor soon and begin the process. The
>situation I keep running into is that pilots contact me the day before they
>want to fly (probably because the insurance company told them they had to).
>When we talk and find out they have been so busy building that they haven't
>flown ANY airplane in the past ____ years it is difficult to convince them
>that they should take some flying lessons from a CFI to become current in a
>plane they know flys well. It is scary enough to have an aircraft that has
>never been off the ground before-and then add in a rusty pilot.
>
>I am not trying to scare you but just get you thinking about it soon enough
>to enter this phase of aircraft constuction in a calm and orderly and safe
>manner.
>
>Safe flying.
>
>Ted Brousseau
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Larry Neal" <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
>To: "piet list"
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flight test plan
>
>
>>
>>Nowhere near needing it yet, but was today thinking about a flight
>>testing plan.
>>
>>There is nothing in the archives and I've yet to find anything on the
>>net, but I think this would be a good Idea to do and a good addition to
>>the archives.
>>
>>If nothing turns up, I will want to put one together myself, so let me
>>know if anyone finds anything or has suggestions. Anything in Mr. B's
>>books?
>>
>>As it happens I have a good friend who is a real live test pilot and
>>member of the national Association of Professional Test Pilots. Whether
>>we draw one up from scratch or find something, I'll run it by him.
>> Maybe we can get a stamp of approval and more brownie points for the
>>final inspection.
>>
>>Larry
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: email from John Grega |
Better yet ask him for a copy of the weight and balance he did on one of his
planes..... ;>)
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: email from John Grega
>
> DJ-----Ask John Grega if he's ever built a copy of his own design, would
you ?
> He lives about 30 minutes from me. Met him at a fly in a few years ago
and he
> asked me why I didn't build his design. Said "Pietenpol built 26 of his
> design.....
> how many have you built ?" He was cranky back then even.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
What are you guys using for the fuselage outside plywood skins? I've seen
some guys using 3/32 or 1/8" Birch ply and I've seen some using 1/8"
Mahogany door skin ply.
I'd prefer to use mahogany door skin. Is it the same stuff you can get at
the lumber yard?? plain ol' 1/8" door skin???
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mark boynton <marktboynton(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage skins |
DJ,
You may not be aware of it, but we now have a supplier
here in the Valley (Phoenix area for you
non-Arizonans). Chris House put me on to him. I've
not seen his place yet, but plan to in the near
future. When I last e-mailed him, he replied "In a
matter of a few days we hope to have a shipment of
sitka spruce. Currently we have mil specs and GL2
certified aircraft plywood in stock and available in
24 to 48 hours. Also many other materials to service
the home built and aircraft indstry." His name is Tom
Dempsey, phone number 602-722-9513.
I would recommend not using luan/mahogany door skins.
The party line is that its made with interior adhesive
and would therefore not pass the boil test. Although
I don't have any plans to boil my Piet, I wouldn't use
it simply because it just isn't very strong stuff.
Take a trip down to Lowe's or Home Depot and check it
out.
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, AZ
--- DJ Vegh wrote:
>
>
> What are you guys using for the fuselage outside
> plywood skins? I've seen
> some guys using 3/32 or 1/8" Birch ply and I've seen
> some using 1/8"
> Mahogany door skin ply.
>
> I'd prefer to use mahogany door skin. Is it the
> same stuff you can get at
> the lumber yard?? plain ol' 1/8" door skin???
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
March 14, 2002 - March 22, 2002
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-cn