Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-co
March 22, 2002 - April 05, 2002
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage skins |
DJ I haven't heard of anyone admitting that they used door skins for
their fuselage sides. I think door skins are more cosmetic than structural
type plywood with just a thin mahogany veneer. I went with aircraft 1/8"
mahogany ply but most guys I believe use 1/8" marine ply. If I had it to do
again thats the way I would go. Great quality and alot less expensive than
aircraft stuff. That plywood "box" is the main part of the structure. Ever
seen a door skin used on an exterior door after a few years in the weather?
They delaminate something terrible. Any how there's my opinion. Ed
>From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage skins
>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:22:21 -0700
>
>
>What are you guys using for the fuselage outside plywood skins? I've seen
>some guys using 3/32 or 1/8" Birch ply and I've seen some using 1/8"
>Mahogany door skin ply.
>
>I'd prefer to use mahogany door skin. Is it the same stuff you can get at
>the lumber yard?? plain ol' 1/8" door skin???
>
>DJ Vegh
>Mesa, AZ
>GN-1 Builder
>www.raptoronline.com
>N74DV
>
>
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage skins |
I suggest sticking with aircraft or marine plywood. Door skins have laminations
of unequal thickness and the quality is unknown at best.
Dale and I used 1/8 birch aircraft plywood and have NO regrets.
One other consideration is resale value. A Pietenpol built with aircraft quality
materials is worth a whole lot more than one built with door skins.
Greg Cardinal
>>> aircamper(at)imagedv.com 03/21/02 09:22PM >>>
What are you guys using for the fuselage outside plywood skins? I've seen
some guys using 3/32 or 1/8" Birch ply and I've seen some using 1/8"
Mahogany door skin ply.
I'd prefer to use mahogany door skin. Is it the same stuff you can get at
the lumber yard?? plain ol' 1/8" door skin???
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com> |
Gary and all,
Thanks for your opinions on the order of building. Because of space, I
guess I willstart on the ribs and then tail section next. Interestinly
enough as Gary has said, I would rather be building model airplanes then
watching TV any day. Now that I have decided on the PIet, Have received my
plans, I guess the ribs is where I will start/ I'll be asking all those
"NEWBIE" questions like every newbie before me. Glad there is a forun such
as this to be able to do so. Thanks,
Doug B.
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
ArrowBear Lake Ca.
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New Plans,
>
> I will advise to build the ribs, tail feathers and all
> the small parts you can, in spare time... Even if you
> do not live in your new home.
>
> At the moment you are settled down, you wil notice how
> much you have already advanced... when you are
> "oficialy" starting your project.
>
> Sometimes it takes vewry long to buy a new house... In
> fact maybe you can look for the new house (with a BIG
> backyard "strip") from your Piet's cockpit ;.)
>
> Building parts is better than watching TV news in the
> night.
>
> Saludos
>
> Gary Gower
> >
> >
> > Received my plans today. More then likely I will not
> > get started on the
> > plane until my house is sold, and I get into the new
> > when I in fact find
> > one. Excited to get the plans and start planning on
> > what to do first.
> > Seems that ribs are the obvious. I have not opened
> > thr roll yet, just
> > looking at the manual. Homework first. Anyway, any
> > advatages to doing
> > the ribs first, or the fuse, tailfeathers? I've
> > built many R/C planes
> > and am familiar with "stick" building techniques.
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Doug B.
> >
> > Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
> > ArrowBear Lake Ca.
> > Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca.
> > http://inlandsloperebels.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Forum -
> > Contributions of
> > any other form
> >
> > latest messages.
> > other List members.
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
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>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage skins |
The problem with door skins are two things to look
VERY closely:
One: is the type of glue... normal white glue will not
stand humidity, mainly in the tail skid area where all
the drops of water (even condesation (sp?)) will
settle when the plane is parked.
Two: Some plywood is so "cheap" that only the front
face (we name it this way here) is of good wood, the
inside, and sometimes the rear face is made of garbage
wood (this name is for our porpouse) and the ply could
fail under compresion in any of the skin area.
Remember that the ply, even this thin, acts as a
structure for the "box" of the fuselage and for
reinforcing the ribs (when used as gussets).
Maybe if you can find marine door skin might be of
good quality, at least in the glue area.
I have detroyed samples of inexpensive door skins are
just do not like how they split and less I like what I
found inside... sometimes the glue is applied like
"grafitti" :-) with large areas without having glue
at all.
Remember that door skins are mainly decorative, but
sometimes you can find good quality material, as in
all products in industry.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- DJ Vegh wrote:
>
>
> What are you guys using for the fuselage outside
> plywood skins? I've seen
> some guys using 3/32 or 1/8" Birch ply and I've seen
> some using 1/8"
> Mahogany door skin ply.
>
> I'd prefer to use mahogany door skin. Is it the
> same stuff you can get at
> the lumber yard?? plain ol' 1/8" door skin???
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
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> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://movies.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Free Thunderbird, Blue Angels videos |
Free Thunderbird, Blue Angels videos
I've got 5 copies of a Thunderbirds / Blue Angles video which we'll give
away for Free to the first 5 people who ask for it along with any other
regular order from Builder's Bookstore.
It's a 50 minute video, 1/2 on the Thunderbirds, and 1/2 on the Blue
Angels. The Thunderbird segment is excellent. The Blue Angels section
is not as good.
To get one, just write FREE THUNDERBIRDS VIDEO in the special
instructions box on the Builder's Bookstore on-line order form, or say
so if you prefer to order something by phone.
Also, in case you are caller #6 or later, note if your regular order
depends on whether there is a free video left to include in your
package.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://buildersbooks.com
800 780-4115
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Sorry the reply is so long in coming I have been out of town....
I used Poly-fiber up to tapes, then instead of poly-spray I used the
Sherwin Williams flat black as a UV inhibitor then color on top of that.
Steve Eldredge
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark [mailto:markmc(at)bluebonnet.net]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
Steve , Well, I've only covered the vert. stab and rudder to paint so I
could still lace the horizontal stab and elevators.Think I'll do that.
Did
you use the Poly-Fiber system?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
> OK how about an hour with distractions? :) Really, it doesn't take
> very long.
>
> Steve E
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark [mailto:markmc(at)bluebonnet.net]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
>
> I can't believe you did rib lacing on the vert. and horizotal
surfaces
> in
> 30 min? Mark----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
>
>
> >
> > I did stitch both vertical and horizontal surfaces. Took an extra
30
> > minutes. I'd do it again....
> >
> > Steve Eldredge
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark [mailto:markmc(at)bluebonnet.net]
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
> >
> >
> > Did you use rib stitching on the tail feathers? I attended one of
the
> > Poly-Fiber workshops last year and the instuctor told me rib
stiching
> or
> > laceing was probably not needed on a Piet tail . Mark McKellar----
> > Original
> > Message -----
> > From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
> > To:
> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > > How about a blue colored pencil then, just to make everyone happy.
> > >
> > > I used blue chalk to line up my stiches by running a spanwise
chalk
> > > line. I didn't need much other marking, but avoided using ink of
> any
> > > kind since I suspected it might bleed through. I think I used
some
> > > regular pencil markings however without a problem.
> > >
> > > Steve E
> > >
> > > PS. Trying to keep up with the list a bit more... You guys put up
a
> > ton
> > > of email in a day! Hope building is going at the same pace. :)
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: John Hofmann [mailto:jhofmann(at)charter.net]
> > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric question
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > My manual (not the most current one) the video and Ray told me
> himself
> > > to
> > > use blue ballpoint pen. Very strange.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > HOWEVER - the Polyfiber manula (if that is the process used)
> > > repeatedly
> > > > stresses to use PENCIL only.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I solved the problem by mixing flat white and flat black on the second
coat to get flat grey then a coat of white then the light color. I used
white. Total was 4 coats.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: mark boynton [mailto:marktboynton(at)yahoo.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
All,
Has anyone considered adding aluminum powder to white
latex paint for the fill coat/uv barrier instead of
using black latex? This might help solve the problem
of having to apply so many top coats to cover a black
UV barrier. I'd like to experiment with this, but I
don't know where to get aluminum powder. I've done a
Web search and looked in the AS all I've
come up with is an aluminum paste that is oil-based
and added to oil-based finishes. Where can I find
aluminum powder, and how would you determine how much
to add per unit of paint? Ideas, anyone?
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, AZ
--- Wayne McIntosh wrote:
> McIntosh"
>
> Mark,
> I tried some test panels using Rustoleum Alminum
> paint as the UV barrier
> followed by latex gloss paint. The panels were 1'
> square and I used 1.8oz
> dacron shrunk on wood frames. I left it out in the
> sun for over 3 years now.
> I had my A&P friend test it with a maule tester
> after 2 years outdoors and
> it passed. The problem is that the latex does not
> bond well to the
> rustoleum. The way I tested the adhesion was to
> apply a strip of cheap 2"
> masking tape to the panel and rip off the tape. The
> tape pulled off the
> latex paint leaving the aluminum paint attached to
> the dacron. I tried the
> same process using flat black latex house paint as a
> UV barrier and covered
> the black latex with gloss color latex house paint.
> The tape test did not
> pull off the latex over latex. This process is used
> on some of the planes
> designed by Mike Fisher. I did not test the Fisher
> process since others
> already have tested it. So when I painted my plane I
> used the following
> process. I followed the Poly-Fiber manual to the
> letter until I had all the
> tapes and rib lacing done including the Poly-Brush
> then I applied the black
> latex followed by the gloss latex. My plane is 2
> years old and it looks
> fine. I have seen a Fisher Koala that was 11 years
> old with the same process
> and it looked fine. You can remove the paint with
> acetone to make repairs. I
> have seen 2 planes that were painted with enamel
> paint that had peeling
> paint. I have seen others with enamel that did not
> peel. One problem I had
> was that I used Glidden Bright Red as my finish
> coat. It takes 5 coats of
> Bright Red to cover the black UV barrier. I think
> because of this that I
> have a heavy paint job. Had I known this I would
> have painted my plane a
> darker color that would not need as many coats. Also
> when I needed to make a
> repair I found that Glidden had discontinued that
> color, I did manage to
> match it with another brand. I think that you get
> the best in light weight
> and durability with one of the STC aproved processes
> like Poly-Fiber ot
> Randolph etc they just cost more.You can get
> acceptable results if you
> experiment and do some testing yourself.
> Wayne McIntosh
> Ragwing Rag-A-Muffin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
>
>
> >
> > I'm trying to save some money and time on the
> covering process.I've
> > covered and painted my tailfeathers . I used the
> poly-fiber system up
> > thru Poly-brushing the tapes.Then I used 2 coats
> of latex Kilz primer
> > sealer to fill the weave.Both brushed very thin
> .Then 1 cross coat(gun
> > sprayed) of Rustoleum aluminum paint. Then 2
> coats of Rustoleum for the
> > finish color. They look great and I 'm planning on
> doing the rest of the
> > Piet the same way unless someone can tell me a
> reason why this won't
> > work. Thanks for any input Mark
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://movies.yahoo.com/
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage skins |
>
>What are you guys using for the fuselage outside plywood skins? I've seen
>some guys using 3/32 or 1/8" Birch ply and I've seen some using 1/8"
>Mahogany door skin ply.
>
>I'd prefer to use mahogany door skin. Is it the same stuff you can get at
>the lumber yard?? plain ol' 1/8" door skin???
DJ,
I just finished some research on this. If you don't want the expense of
Aircraft grade plywood, do a web search on the term 'BS-1088'. This is the
British Mil. Spec. designation for a grade of marine plywood that is an
absolutely safe substitute for Aircraft grade ply. I did this and found a
supplier in Buffalo that I can buy from (closest one to me). I believe
there were also several suppliers in the West. It's a very pretty mahogany
color, finished on both sides, just like aircraft grade. (It's even rated
by Lloyd's of London, for what it's worth!). This stuff goes by the trade
names Hydrotek or Aquatek, but a web search on those terms did not turn up
nearly as many hits.
I am looking for 1/4" and 5/32" to finish the woodwork on my project, and I
can get a 4' x 8' sheet of each from the Buffalo supplier for a total of
$150.00, shipping included. Actually, this stuff comes in metric sizes, but
it's close enough for your purposes. (actual cost is about $50.00 per sheet
if you find someplace close enough to go get it).
Unfortunately, 1/8" equivalent is the thinnest you can get, so you still
need to buy Aircraft grade for rib gussets and your wing leading edge, but
this will still save you some significant $ for high-quality material.
BTW, I also checked with the buyer at my local lumber yard, and he verified
(by calling the manufactuer's representative) that what is commonly sold
as "Baltic Birch Plywood", although very pretty, is made with
interior-grade glue, not exterior-grade. In the past, several people on
this list have suggested it as an alternative to aircraft-grade ply. Yeah,
we may not plan on 'boiling' our Piets, but I have seen interior-grade
plywood delaminate from extended exposure to high humidity. I wouldn't use
it on a plane, even in a non-structural application.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage skins |
>
>I just finished some research on this. If you don't want the expense of
>Aircraft grade plywood, do a web search on the term 'BS-1088'. This is the
>British Mil. Spec. designation for a grade of marine plywood that is an
>absolutely safe substitute for Aircraft grade ply. I did this and found a
>supplier in Buffalo that I can buy from (closest one to me).
I recently bought some marine ply from Noah's Marine (kayak building).
They have a place in Buffalo that is for pickups only. You will save
a bunch if you hop in the car and drive up to their store in Toronto.
No tax, no shipping, no duty, and real nice folks. The web site
is at http://www.noahsmarine.com. If you look at the Canadian side
of the site remember to multiply the prices by .65 to get American.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
Retsof, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage skins |
>
>>
>>I just finished some research on this. If you don't want the expense of
>>Aircraft grade plywood, do a web search on the term 'BS-1088'. This is the
>>British Mil. Spec. designation for a grade of marine plywood that is an
>>absolutely safe substitute for Aircraft grade ply. I did this and found a
>>supplier in Buffalo that I can buy from (closest one to me).
>
>I recently bought some marine ply from Noah's Marine (kayak building).
>They have a place in Buffalo that is for pickups only. You will save
>a bunch if you hop in the car and drive up to their store in Toronto.
>No tax, no shipping, no duty, and real nice folks. The web site
>is at http://www.noahsmarine.com. If you look at the Canadian side
>of the site remember to multiply the prices by .65 to get American.
>
>Dave
>N36078 '41 BC-12-65
>Retsof, NY
Dave,
Noah's in Buffalo is the place I was referring to. I thought I read their
website to mean that they ship from Buffalo. They had a formula for
shipping charges to different parts of the country; wherever they ship
from, that's what my price info was based on. With the current price of
gas, $37.50 for shipping to Ohio seems like a pretty good deal. Of course,
if I was reading their site wrong & the prices I got were Canadian, then
I'm even better off!
Thanks for verifying that they are a good source!
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
I'm sorry, I must have missed something somewhere. Where did it come from
that black paint serves as a UV barrier?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
> I solved the problem by mixing flat white and flat black on the second
> coat to get flat grey then a coat of white then the light color. I used
> white. Total was 4 coats.
>
> Steve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mark boynton [mailto:marktboynton(at)yahoo.com]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
>
>
> All,
>
> Has anyone considered adding aluminum powder to white
> latex paint for the fill coat/uv barrier instead of
> using black latex? This might help solve the problem
> of having to apply so many top coats to cover a black
> UV barrier. I'd like to experiment with this, but I
> don't know where to get aluminum powder. I've done a
> Web search and looked in the AS all I've
> come up with is an aluminum paste that is oil-based
> and added to oil-based finishes. Where can I find
> aluminum powder, and how would you determine how much
> to add per unit of paint? Ideas, anyone?
>
> Mark Boynton
> Gilbert, AZ
>
> --- Wayne McIntosh wrote:
> > McIntosh"
> >
> > Mark,
> > I tried some test panels using Rustoleum Alminum
> > paint as the UV barrier
> > followed by latex gloss paint. The panels were 1'
> > square and I used 1.8oz
> > dacron shrunk on wood frames. I left it out in the
> > sun for over 3 years now.
> > I had my A&P friend test it with a maule tester
> > after 2 years outdoors and
> > it passed. The problem is that the latex does not
> > bond well to the
> > rustoleum. The way I tested the adhesion was to
> > apply a strip of cheap 2"
> > masking tape to the panel and rip off the tape. The
> > tape pulled off the
> > latex paint leaving the aluminum paint attached to
> > the dacron. I tried the
> > same process using flat black latex house paint as a
> > UV barrier and covered
> > the black latex with gloss color latex house paint.
> > The tape test did not
> > pull off the latex over latex. This process is used
> > on some of the planes
> > designed by Mike Fisher. I did not test the Fisher
> > process since others
> > already have tested it. So when I painted my plane I
> > used the following
> > process. I followed the Poly-Fiber manual to the
> > letter until I had all the
> > tapes and rib lacing done including the Poly-Brush
> > then I applied the black
> > latex followed by the gloss latex. My plane is 2
> > years old and it looks
> > fine. I have seen a Fisher Koala that was 11 years
> > old with the same process
> > and it looked fine. You can remove the paint with
> > acetone to make repairs. I
> > have seen 2 planes that were painted with enamel
> > paint that had peeling
> > paint. I have seen others with enamel that did not
> > peel. One problem I had
> > was that I used Glidden Bright Red as my finish
> > coat. It takes 5 coats of
> > Bright Red to cover the black UV barrier. I think
> > because of this that I
> > have a heavy paint job. Had I known this I would
> > have painted my plane a
> > darker color that would not need as many coats. Also
> > when I needed to make a
> > repair I found that Glidden had discontinued that
> > color, I did manage to
> > match it with another brand. I think that you get
> > the best in light weight
> > and durability with one of the STC aproved processes
> > like Poly-Fiber ot
> > Randolph etc they just cost more.You can get
> > acceptable results if you
> > experiment and do some testing yourself.
> > Wayne McIntosh
> > Ragwing Rag-A-Muffin
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I'm trying to save some money and time on the
> > covering process.I've
> > > covered and painted my tailfeathers . I used the
> > poly-fiber system up
> > > thru Poly-brushing the tapes.Then I used 2 coats
> > of latex Kilz primer
> > > sealer to fill the weave.Both brushed very thin
> > .Then 1 cross coat(gun
> > > sprayed) of Rustoleum aluminum paint. Then 2
> > coats of Rustoleum for the
> > > finish color. They look great and I 'm planning on
> > doing the rest of the
> > > Piet the same way unless someone can tell me a
> > reason why this won't
> > > work. Thanks for any input Mark
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Forum -
> > Contributions of
> > any other form
> >
> > latest messages.
> > other List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/search
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> http://movies.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage skins |
Kip,
I thought that you were thinking Noah's. I called them about
the kayak wood because my initial read was that I could pick
up in Buffalo. I live 60 miles from Buffalo so it was no
big deal (40 mile each way commuter). I would have had to
pay the packing and shipping from Toronto plus 8% sales tax
so I drove the extra 2 hours each way and did a pick up. It
saved me a bunch on 6 sheets of 4mm and one sheet of 6mm.
They stock multiple grades of marine ply so read closely. The
boats that I am building (CLC Chesapeake 17) called for the
BS 1088. The plywood comes from Isreal but customs waved me
through when I said boat building materials for personal use.
Dave
>Dave,
>
>Noah's in Buffalo is the place I was referring to. I thought I read their
>website to mean that they ship from Buffalo. They had a formula for
>shipping charges to different parts of the country; wherever they ship
>from, that's what my price info was based on. With the current price of
>gas, $37.50 for shipping to Ohio seems like a pretty good deal. Of course,
>if I was reading their site wrong & the prices I got were Canadian, then
>I'm even better off!
>
>Thanks for verifying that they are a good source!
>
>Cheers!
>
>Kip Gardner
>
>426 Schneider St. SE
>North Canton, OH 44720
>(330) 494-1775
>
>
>---
>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
Gene,
There is a fellow named Mike Fisher that has designed some wood and
fabric planes the Avenger, Horizin 1 & 2 to name two. Anyway Mike did some
testing and found that flat black latex house paint worked as a UV barrier.
There was an article in the Experimenter about it years ago. It may be that
other colors other than black also would work. It also may be that it is all
baloney but if it is I fell for it. I do not think that Mike or anyone is
suggesting that this is as good or better than an STC system like Poly-Fiber
or Randolph. But it is less expensive, seems to work and it fits right in
with this kind of aviation. I bet you would never see black latex on a
Lancair or Cirrus.
Wayne McIntosh
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
> I'm sorry, I must have missed something somewhere. Where did it come from
> that black paint serves as a UV barrier?
>
> Gene
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
>
> >
> > I solved the problem by mixing flat white and flat black on the second
> > coat to get flat grey then a coat of white then the light color. I used
> > white. Total was 4 coats.
> >
> > Steve E.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
any paint that totally blocks light (UV rays) is a UV blocker .the only two
colors that totally block light are aluminum or silver and black.Most colors
would block light if you used enough coats of paint but the weight and
effort would be prohibitive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
> I'm sorry, I must have missed something somewhere. Where did it come from
> that black paint serves as a UV barrier?
>
> Gene
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
>
> >
> > I solved the problem by mixing flat white and flat black on the second
> > coat to get flat grey then a coat of white then the light color. I used
> > white. Total was 4 coats.
> >
> > Steve E.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mark boynton [mailto:marktboynton(at)yahoo.com]
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
> >
> >
> >
> > All,
> >
> > Has anyone considered adding aluminum powder to white
> > latex paint for the fill coat/uv barrier instead of
> > using black latex? This might help solve the problem
> > of having to apply so many top coats to cover a black
> > UV barrier. I'd like to experiment with this, but I
> > don't know where to get aluminum powder. I've done a
> > Web search and looked in the AS all I've
> > come up with is an aluminum paste that is oil-based
> > and added to oil-based finishes. Where can I find
> > aluminum powder, and how would you determine how much
> > to add per unit of paint? Ideas, anyone?
> >
> > Mark Boynton
> > Gilbert, AZ
> >
> > --- Wayne McIntosh wrote:
> > > McIntosh"
> > >
> > > Mark,
> > > I tried some test panels using Rustoleum Alminum
> > > paint as the UV barrier
> > > followed by latex gloss paint. The panels were 1'
> > > square and I used 1.8oz
> > > dacron shrunk on wood frames. I left it out in the
> > > sun for over 3 years now.
> > > I had my A&P friend test it with a maule tester
> > > after 2 years outdoors and
> > > it passed. The problem is that the latex does not
> > > bond well to the
> > > rustoleum. The way I tested the adhesion was to
> > > apply a strip of cheap 2"
> > > masking tape to the panel and rip off the tape. The
> > > tape pulled off the
> > > latex paint leaving the aluminum paint attached to
> > > the dacron. I tried the
> > > same process using flat black latex house paint as a
> > > UV barrier and covered
> > > the black latex with gloss color latex house paint.
> > > The tape test did not
> > > pull off the latex over latex. This process is used
> > > on some of the planes
> > > designed by Mike Fisher. I did not test the Fisher
> > > process since others
> > > already have tested it. So when I painted my plane I
> > > used the following
> > > process. I followed the Poly-Fiber manual to the
> > > letter until I had all the
> > > tapes and rib lacing done including the Poly-Brush
> > > then I applied the black
> > > latex followed by the gloss latex. My plane is 2
> > > years old and it looks
> > > fine. I have seen a Fisher Koala that was 11 years
> > > old with the same process
> > > and it looked fine. You can remove the paint with
> > > acetone to make repairs. I
> > > have seen 2 planes that were painted with enamel
> > > paint that had peeling
> > > paint. I have seen others with enamel that did not
> > > peel. One problem I had
> > > was that I used Glidden Bright Red as my finish
> > > coat. It takes 5 coats of
> > > Bright Red to cover the black UV barrier. I think
> > > because of this that I
> > > have a heavy paint job. Had I known this I would
> > > have painted my plane a
> > > darker color that would not need as many coats. Also
> > > when I needed to make a
> > > repair I found that Glidden had discontinued that
> > > color, I did manage to
> > > match it with another brand. I think that you get
> > > the best in light weight
> > > and durability with one of the STC aproved processes
> > > like Poly-Fiber ot
> > > Randolph etc they just cost more.You can get
> > > acceptable results if you
> > > experiment and do some testing yourself.
> > > Wayne McIntosh
> > > Ragwing Rag-A-Muffin
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm trying to save some money and time on the
> > > covering process.I've
> > > > covered and painted my tailfeathers . I used the
> > > poly-fiber system up
> > > > thru Poly-brushing the tapes.Then I used 2 coats
> > > of latex Kilz primer
> > > > sealer to fill the weave.Both brushed very thin
> > > .Then 1 cross coat(gun
> > > > sprayed) of Rustoleum aluminum paint. Then 2
> > > coats of Rustoleum for the
> > > > finish color. They look great and I 'm planning on
> > > doing the rest of the
> > > > Piet the same way unless someone can tell me a
> > > reason why this won't
> > > > work. Thanks for any input Mark
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Forum -
> > > Contributions of
> > > any other form
> > >
> > > latest messages.
> > > other List members.
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > > http://www.matronics.com/search
> > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > http://movies.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mikebell(at)sc.rr.com> |
Consider the covering for your fuse as "structural".
If you live near the border, see if you can go across today and come back
with Canadian lumber without paying the new tariff. Bush declared an
average 29% new tariff on Canadian softwood yesterday. I didn't see if this
is effective immediately. If not, I'd buy today and get it across the
border today, otherwise look at the Canadian dollar prices for lumber as
much closer to US dollar prices.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
You need to add gold (bronze) as a third color. I understand that aluminum
and bronze block UV because they are metallic, which unquestionably blocks
UV, but never thought of merely blocking the visible light as being
sufficient. Of course, sunblock supposedly blocks UV and it is invisible.
Hey! maybe we could mix some SPF 30 in with clear dope?
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
> any paint that totally blocks light (UV rays) is a UV blocker .the only
two
> colors that totally block light are aluminum or silver and black.Most
colors
> would block light if you used enough coats of paint but the weight and
> effort would be prohibitive.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
>
> >
> > I'm sorry, I must have missed something somewhere. Where did it come
from
> > that black paint serves as a UV barrier?
> >
> > Gene
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
> > To:
> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I solved the problem by mixing flat white and flat black on the second
> > > coat to get flat grey then a coat of white then the light color. I
used
> > > white. Total was 4 coats.
> > >
> > > Steve E.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mark boynton [mailto:marktboynton(at)yahoo.com]
> > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > All,
> > >
> > > Has anyone considered adding aluminum powder to white
> > > latex paint for the fill coat/uv barrier instead of
> > > using black latex? This might help solve the problem
> > > of having to apply so many top coats to cover a black
> > > UV barrier. I'd like to experiment with this, but I
> > > don't know where to get aluminum powder. I've done a
> > > Web search and looked in the AS all I've
> > > come up with is an aluminum paste that is oil-based
> > > and added to oil-based finishes. Where can I find
> > > aluminum powder, and how would you determine how much
> > > to add per unit of paint? Ideas, anyone?
> > >
> > > Mark Boynton
> > > Gilbert, AZ
> > >
> > > --- Wayne McIntosh wrote:
> > > > McIntosh"
> > > >
> > > > Mark,
> > > > I tried some test panels using Rustoleum Alminum
> > > > paint as the UV barrier
> > > > followed by latex gloss paint. The panels were 1'
> > > > square and I used 1.8oz
> > > > dacron shrunk on wood frames. I left it out in the
> > > > sun for over 3 years now.
> > > > I had my A&P friend test it with a maule tester
> > > > after 2 years outdoors and
> > > > it passed. The problem is that the latex does not
> > > > bond well to the
> > > > rustoleum. The way I tested the adhesion was to
> > > > apply a strip of cheap 2"
> > > > masking tape to the panel and rip off the tape. The
> > > > tape pulled off the
> > > > latex paint leaving the aluminum paint attached to
> > > > the dacron. I tried the
> > > > same process using flat black latex house paint as a
> > > > UV barrier and covered
> > > > the black latex with gloss color latex house paint.
> > > > The tape test did not
> > > > pull off the latex over latex. This process is used
> > > > on some of the planes
> > > > designed by Mike Fisher. I did not test the Fisher
> > > > process since others
> > > > already have tested it. So when I painted my plane I
> > > > used the following
> > > > process. I followed the Poly-Fiber manual to the
> > > > letter until I had all the
> > > > tapes and rib lacing done including the Poly-Brush
> > > > then I applied the black
> > > > latex followed by the gloss latex. My plane is 2
> > > > years old and it looks
> > > > fine. I have seen a Fisher Koala that was 11 years
> > > > old with the same process
> > > > and it looked fine. You can remove the paint with
> > > > acetone to make repairs. I
> > > > have seen 2 planes that were painted with enamel
> > > > paint that had peeling
> > > > paint. I have seen others with enamel that did not
> > > > peel. One problem I had
> > > > was that I used Glidden Bright Red as my finish
> > > > coat. It takes 5 coats of
> > > > Bright Red to cover the black UV barrier. I think
> > > > because of this that I
> > > > have a heavy paint job. Had I known this I would
> > > > have painted my plane a
> > > > darker color that would not need as many coats. Also
> > > > when I needed to make a
> > > > repair I found that Glidden had discontinued that
> > > > color, I did manage to
> > > > match it with another brand. I think that you get
> > > > the best in light weight
> > > > and durability with one of the STC aproved processes
> > > > like Poly-Fiber ot
> > > > Randolph etc they just cost more.You can get
> > > > acceptable results if you
> > > > experiment and do some testing yourself.
> > > > Wayne McIntosh
> > > > Ragwing Rag-A-Muffin
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net>
> > > > To:
> > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm trying to save some money and time on the
> > > > covering process.I've
> > > > > covered and painted my tailfeathers . I used the
> > > > poly-fiber system up
> > > > > thru Poly-brushing the tapes.Then I used 2 coats
> > > > of latex Kilz primer
> > > > > sealer to fill the weave.Both brushed very thin
> > > > .Then 1 cross coat(gun
> > > > > sprayed) of Rustoleum aluminum paint. Then 2
> > > > coats of Rustoleum for the
> > > > > finish color. They look great and I 'm planning on
> > > > doing the rest of the
> > > > > Piet the same way unless someone can tell me a
> > > > reason why this won't
> > > > > work. Thanks for any input Mark
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Forum -
> > > > Contributions of
> > > > any other form
> > > >
> > > > latest messages.
> > > > other List members.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > > > http://www.matronics.com/search
> > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://movies.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
>
>look at this last email I got from John Grega this morning..... This came
>after I told him I did my calculations to W&B and was being very meticulous
>in the construction of my GN-1
>-------------
>"Dvegh: I do not approve of changes in the design and construction of the
>GN-1
>Aircamper.
>John W. Grega, Designer, GN-1 Aircamper.
>EAA Tech Counselor, AL, No.179.
>EAA 3808."
>-------------
>
>Shit... all I did was push my seat back 2" and push the firewall forward
>1.5" and all of the sudden he doesnt approve of the changes AND the
>construction of my GN-1... this dude pisses me off... why the hell did
>I even bother buying the plans from him.... hell I shoulda bought
>authentic Piet plans. Grega torques my hide.
>
>just venting....
>
>DJ
Sounds like Grega has a bad case of "Miss Grundy-itis". I guess you should
have asked for a Hall Pass first!
As for the news about tariffs on Canadian lumber, etc. all I can say is,
'oh well'. I am not suprised, Bush is delivering the goods to his western
timber company buddies. (At least they are getting the gov't THEY paid for
- oops, excuse me, I'm getting political, someone slap me.) Buying BS-1088
from Noah's will still be cheaper than buying aircraft stuff from AS&S. Do
Not Archive.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: email from John Grega |
Perhaps you could call your airplane a "Vegh Aircamper", or
something like that.
Designers are understandably sensitive to people making
changes to their creations. If built as designed, the aircraft will
have predictable characteristics justifying all the work put into
developing and proving it to be a sound a/c.
It sounds as if you have put a lot of thought and effort into modi-
fying the basic design and I hope it turns out well. But, in so
doing, you have assumed the role of designer--- and when you
fly it you will be testing your design, not Mr. Grega's.
Some time ago a friend, who had previously built a fine Jodel
D-9 to the plans and a very nice modified Taylor Monoplane,
began construction of a "Pietenpol" which was to use a pair of
fabric-covered Luscombe wings. He insisted on calling it a Pie-
tenpol, which it certainly wasn't, and I urged him to call it the
"--------- Parasol", or something similar. Alas, he died before
it was finished and I don't know what has happened to it. He was
a great craftsman and it would have been a nice airplane, but it
would never have been a Pietenpol!
I can see Mr. Grega's point of view very clearly. For many rea-
sons, including liability, he wishes to disassociate himself from
your project. By simply changing the designation or name you
could relieve him of his concerns.
Good luck with your project!
Graham Hansen EAA 2063
(Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: email from John Grega |
In a message dated 3/23/02 10:08:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
aircamper(at)imagedv.com writes:
<< all I did was push my seat back 2" and push the firewall forward
1.5" and all of the sudden he doesnt approve of the changes AND the
construction of my GN-1... this dude pisses me off... why the hell did
I even bother buying the plans from him.... hell I shoulda bought
authentic Piet plans. Grega torques my hide.
just venting....
DJ
>>
Well ??? ... DJ .... why did you buy the Grega plans over the Piet plans ? I
have neither set of plans and don't know the intimate details of the Grega,
but am familiar with the Piet. I have the Flying and Glider manuals and have
almost read the words off the pages going over the Piet article that BHP
himself wrote.
Is there somewhere I could go online to find out more about the Grega and why
someone like yourself would choose it over the Piet ?
I'll go take a look at google.com and see what I can find.
BTW, DJ, took at look at your construction logs and pictures, some of those
pages take a while to load. Nice pictures though.
What did you pay for the wood kit from Aircraft Spruce ?
-dennis the menace
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Bert wrote:
>(waiting on his first Grandbaby to check in this weekend) Woooohhhooo!
>Got me a front-seat partner now.
So, Bert- did the new front seater check in? He or she? We had our first
grandchild (boy) just a tad over a year ago, and the first thing I told his
mama was that I would give him his first airplane ride and would teach him
to fly taildraggers as soon as he can reach the rudder pedals (no need to be
able to see over the nose). After she went white and gave me that "over my
dead body" look, I tossed my silk scarf over my shoulder and just kept on
going. Yessirree, that boy will make a fine pilot; I'll see to that.
But in the meantime, I am now the proud owner of a set of plans for a "Pedal
Piet", which will be his first set of wings for sure! You need to get one
for your grandchild; go to
http://showcase.netins.net/web/pedalplane/piet.htm and get busy building!
P.S.- This is one of those projects that even "The Fisherman"'s materials
will be OK on, and D.J. can chrome to his heart's content ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, Oregon
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: front seaters |
Yeah, Oscar. I always said I wouldn't bore all my friends (and newsgroup
buds) with all that "Let me tell about my grandchildren" stuff. .....
But I can't help it! Here Goes!
He finally reported for duty on Thursday at a lean, mean 7 lbs and 11
ounces. Got here with all the appropriate appendages and healthy as a
horse. Mother is fine , too. Boy, the minute think you have this old world
figured out, you get humbled again.
Thanks for asking....
Bert (aka Granpa) Conoly
Tallahassee
ps. that pedal piet sounds like a neat project - I'll check it out.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: front seaters
>
> Bert wrote:
>
> >(waiting on his first Grandbaby to check in this weekend) Woooohhhooo!
> >Got me a front-seat partner now.
>
> So, Bert- did the new front seater check in? He or she? We had our first
> grandchild (boy) just a tad over a year ago, and the first thing I told
his
> mama was that I would give him his first airplane ride and would teach him
> to fly taildraggers as soon as he can reach the rudder pedals (no need to
be
> able to see over the nose). After she went white and gave me that "over
my
> dead body" look, I tossed my silk scarf over my shoulder and just kept on
> going. Yessirree, that boy will make a fine pilot; I'll see to that.
>
> But in the meantime, I am now the proud owner of a set of plans for a
"Pedal
> Piet", which will be his first set of wings for sure! You need to get one
> for your grandchild; go to
> http://showcase.netins.net/web/pedalplane/piet.htm and get busy building!
>
> P.S.- This is one of those projects that even "The Fisherman"'s materials
> will be OK on, and D.J. can chrome to his heart's content ;o)
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, Oregon
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: front seaters |
In a message dated 3/23/02 5:38:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
taildrags(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< But in the meantime, I am now the proud owner of a set of plans for a
"Pedal
Piet", which will be his first set of wings for sure! You need to get one
for your grandchild; go to
http://showcase.netins.net/web/pedalplane/piet.htm and get busy building!
P.S.- This is one of those projects that even "The Fisherman"'s materials
will be OK on, and D.J. can chrome to his heart's content ;o)
>>
Awesome ! I have saved the information on these pages, and will be ordering a
set of plans for these ! Thanks Oscar !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
Hey group, house paint is probably made to block UV, but just because
it's black doesn't mean a thing to non-visual frequencys. Just a reminder
that what you see isn't always what you get. Metallic paints stop UV because
the solid metal gets in the way.
I've done some work with light transmission and sometimes the results
would be very suprising. Visual color has nothing to do with IR or UV
transmission.
George Allen
Harrisburg, PA
GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
(Peitenpol builder)
> any paint that totally blocks light (UV rays) is a UV blocker .the only
two
> colors that totally block light are aluminum or silver and black.Most
colors
> would block light if you used enough coats of paint but the weight and
> effort would be prohibitive.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
If no visable light gets through, can UV rays get through?
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
> Hey group, house paint is probably made to block UV, but just because
> it's black doesn't mean a thing to non-visual frequencys. Just a reminder
> that what you see isn't always what you get. Metallic paints stop UV
because
> the solid metal gets in the way.
> I've done some work with light transmission and sometimes the results
> would be very suprising. Visual color has nothing to do with IR or UV
> transmission.
>
> George Allen
> Harrisburg, PA
> GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
> (Peitenpol builder)
>
>
> > any paint that totally blocks light (UV rays) is a UV blocker .the only
> two
> > colors that totally block light are aluminum or silver and black.Most
> colors
> > would block light if you used enough coats of paint but the weight and
> > effort would be prohibitive.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
I'm trying to get an answer from paint folks, but so far I have not
found one that knows or want to comment on airplanes.
So far I know that good latex housepaint is itself very UV resistant,
but does that mean that some UV may still get through and damage the fabric?
That is really the key point.
Larry
Mark wrote:
>
>If no visable light gets through, can UV rays get through?
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
>
>>
>
>
>>Hey group, house paint is probably made to block UV, but just because
>>it's black doesn't mean a thing to non-visual frequencys. Just a reminder
>>that what you see isn't always what you get. Metallic paints stop UV
>>
>because
>
>>the solid metal gets in the way.
>>I've done some work with light transmission and sometimes the results
>>would be very suprising. Visual color has nothing to do with IR or UV
>>transmission.
>>
>>George Allen
>>Harrisburg, PA
>>GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
>>(Peitenpol builder)
>>
>>
>>>any paint that totally blocks light (UV rays) is a UV blocker .the only
>>>
>>two
>>
>>>colors that totally block light are aluminum or silver and black.Most
>>>
>>colors
>>
>>>would block light if you used enough coats of paint but the weight and
>>>effort would be prohibitive.
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
>>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
Yes, That is why you need an Ultra-violet barrier as the ultra-violet light
will destroy the fabric underneath.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
If no visable light gets through, can UV rays get through?
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
> Hey group, house paint is probably made to block UV, but just because
> it's black doesn't mean a thing to non-visual frequencys. Just a reminder
> that what you see isn't always what you get. Metallic paints stop UV
because
> the solid metal gets in the way.
> I've done some work with light transmission and sometimes the results
> would be very suprising. Visual color has nothing to do with IR or UV
> transmission.
>
> George Allen
> Harrisburg, PA
> GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
> (Peitenpol builder)
>
>
> > any paint that totally blocks light (UV rays) is a UV blocker .the only
> two
> > colors that totally block light are aluminum or silver and black.Most
> colors
> > would block light if you used enough coats of paint but the weight and
> > effort would be prohibitive.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
If you wait a while this will go away just
as it has all the other times. It will eventually
go to international court again with the same
result. The tariff is illegal. In the meantime
thousands of little guys like you and me on
both sides of the border will suffer layoffs and
loss of jobs. The joys of big business and
government, maybe we should call them
"broomsticks". I think I'll go and fix my radial
arm saw now. It needs new bearings. Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Bell" <mikebell(at)sc.rr.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood
>
> Consider the covering for your fuse as "structural".
>
> If you live near the border, see if you can go across today and come back
> with Canadian lumber without paying the new tariff. Bush declared an
> average 29% new tariff on Canadian softwood yesterday. I didn't see if
this
> is effective immediately. If not, I'd buy today and get it across the
> border today, otherwise look at the Canadian dollar prices for lumber as
> much closer to US dollar prices.
>
> Mike
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
I thought Bill Clinton signed a thing called NAFTA which stood for the North
American Free Trade Agreement. What does a tariff have to do with free
trade? Hello?
There goes any chance of expensive Canadian Sitka Spruce for the spars. Now
it is extra expensive.
Chris Bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of clif
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood
If you wait a while this will go away just
as it has all the other times. It will eventually
go to international court again with the same
result. The tariff is illegal. In the meantime
thousands of little guys like you and me on
both sides of the border will suffer layoffs and
loss of jobs. The joys of big business and
government, maybe we should call them
"broomsticks". I think I'll go and fix my radial
arm saw now. It needs new bearings. Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Bell" <mikebell(at)sc.rr.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood
>
> Consider the covering for your fuse as "structural".
>
> If you live near the border, see if you can go across today and come back
> with Canadian lumber without paying the new tariff. Bush declared an
> average 29% new tariff on Canadian softwood yesterday. I didn't see if
this
> is effective immediately. If not, I'd buy today and get it across the
> border today, otherwise look at the Canadian dollar prices for lumber as
> much closer to US dollar prices.
>
> Mike
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
Mark, yes, UV can get thru. Depends on the chemical makeup of the paint.
Looking at
it another way, glass eyeglasses allow visible and UV to get thru unless
they get a special
coating, but plastic lenses will stop most UV and let the visible thru. It's
all about the chemistry
of the paint and the wave length of the light.
You can get 2 different paints that look exactly the same but viewed under
UV light
one would be bright and the other dark. One reflects that wavelength and the
other absorbs it.
May even allow it to go thru. At that level it's quantum physics and weird.
I think I'll use aluminium in my paint. (if I can find some)
George Allen
Harrisburg, PA
GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
(Peitenpol builder)
>
> If no visable light gets through, can UV rays get through?
> ----- Original Message -----
>>Hey group, house paint is probably made to block UV, but just because
> > it's black doesn't mean a thing to non-visual frequencys. Just a
reminder
> > that what you see isn't always what you get. Metallic paints stop UV
> because
> > the solid metal gets in the way.
> > I've done some work with light transmission and sometimes the results
> > would be very suprising. Visual color has nothing to do with IR or UV
> > transmission.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
>
>Mark, yes, UV can get thru. Depends on the chemical makeup of the paint.
>Looking at
>it another way, glass eyeglasses allow visible and UV to get thru unless
>they get a special
>coating, but plastic lenses will stop most UV and let the visible thru. It's
>all about the chemistry
>of the paint and the wave length of the light.
>You can get 2 different paints that look exactly the same but viewed under
>UV light
>one would be bright and the other dark. One reflects that wavelength and the
>other absorbs it.
>May even allow it to go thru. At that level it's quantum physics and weird.
>
>I think I'll use aluminium in my paint. (if I can find some)
>
>George Allen
>Harrisburg, PA
>GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
>(Peitenpol builder)
Of course, the Fisherman would say 'hogwash' to all of this & go find some
good, cheap boat enamal to put on top of his bedsheet wing covering :).
KIp Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
are you planning on using latex?
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
> Mark, yes, UV can get thru. Depends on the chemical makeup of the paint.
> Looking at
> it another way, glass eyeglasses allow visible and UV to get thru unless
> they get a special
> coating, but plastic lenses will stop most UV and let the visible thru.
It's
> all about the chemistry
> of the paint and the wave length of the light.
> You can get 2 different paints that look exactly the same but viewed under
> UV light
> one would be bright and the other dark. One reflects that wavelength and
the
> other absorbs it.
> May even allow it to go thru. At that level it's quantum physics and
weird.
>
> I think I'll use aluminium in my paint. (if I can find some)
>
> George Allen
> Harrisburg, PA
> GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
> (Peitenpol builder)
>
>
> >
> > If no visable light gets through, can UV rays get through?
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>Hey group, house paint is probably made to block UV, but just because
> > > it's black doesn't mean a thing to non-visual frequencys. Just a
> reminder
> > > that what you see isn't always what you get. Metallic paints stop UV
> > because
> > > the solid metal gets in the way.
> > > I've done some work with light transmission and sometimes the results
> > > would be very suprising. Visual color has nothing to do with IR or UV
> > > transmission.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
> are you planning on using latex?
Don't know yet. Latex seems to work, listening to the group
if it's done right, but I'm temped to go with an alkyd type paint.
I wonder how Rustoleum with teflon would work?
Painting is still about a year or more in the future.
But I'm listening.
George Allen
Harrisburg, PA
GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
(Peitenpol builder)
p.s. I got permission to buy a flying airplane so I won't have to spend
EVERY evening in the basement. Does anyone know of something like
a VP 1 or 2, a Smith miniplane, a flybaby, or a Piet or something
less then $8,000 to $9.000 that's for sale within a couple hundred miles
of Harrisburg, PA?? I'm still going to build my Piet.
----- Original Message -----
> are you planning on using latex?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
I'm using Rustoleum after Poly-tac and poly-brush. Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
> > are you planning on using latex?
>
> Don't know yet. Latex seems to work, listening to the group
> if it's done right, but I'm temped to go with an alkyd type paint.
> I wonder how Rustoleum with teflon would work?
> Painting is still about a year or more in the future.
> But I'm listening.
>
> George Allen
> Harrisburg, PA
> GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
> (Peitenpol builder)
>
> p.s. I got permission to buy a flying airplane so I won't have to spend
> EVERY evening in the basement. Does anyone know of something like
> a VP 1 or 2, a Smith miniplane, a flybaby, or a Piet or something
> less then $8,000 to $9.000 that's for sale within a couple hundred miles
> of Harrisburg, PA?? I'm still going to build my Piet.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > are you planning on using latex?
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Boy, did I ever open a can of worms!
On to an airplane topic-Grega vrs. Pietenpol.
Bear with me on this. In computer programming
you have two opposites-open architecture
which anyone with the skills can add on to or
modify and closed arch. which you can't change.
An example of closed arch would be the Corel
graphics products. This is capable of giving you
just about anything you want but you can't make
changes and it costs an arm and a leg. On the
other side is GIMP started as a graduate university
project. It will do the same job and is free to
download. You are free to modify and make add-
ons to your hearts content. Now, the Grega is
a closed arch. product, as are most other offerings.
The Piet is the other variety. We are free to do
what we want with it and still call it a Piet so long
as it retains the basic construction, shape and
flying characteristics. If Bernard were still around
I believe he would be applauding our efforts and be
there to give a little slap when safety was
compromised. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it! Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
>
>Don't know yet. Latex seems to work, listening to the group
>if it's done right, but I'm temped to go with an alkyd type paint.
>I wonder how Rustoleum with teflon would work?
>Painting is still about a year or more in the future.
>But I'm listening.
>
>George Allen
>Harrisburg, PA
>GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
>(Peitenpol builder)
>
>p.s. I got permission to buy a flying airplane so I won't have to spend
>EVERY evening in the basement. Does anyone know of something like
>a VP 1 or 2, a Smith miniplane, a flybaby, or a Piet or something
>less then $8,000 to $9.000 that's for sale within a couple hundred miles
>of Harrisburg, PA?? I'm still going to build my Piet.
George,
The guy I bought my Piet project from in Cincinnati has an almost ready to
fly Fisher 202 (I think it's a 202, it's a 2-seat hi-wing, sort of
'Cubby'-looking thing) that he's asking $4500.00 for, including engine.
From the look of it, I think about 80-100 hrs. - tops - would have it in
the air.
Don't know if this is too far away or not, but if I had the extra $4500, I
would have bought it to have something to fly while I worked on the Piet.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
| Subject: | email from John Grega |
DJ,
The buauty of it is: HE DOESN'T HAVE TO APPORVE!!! The FAA is going to call
it a "Veigh GN-1" anyway.
That said, it is a shame that someone as intimately associated with our
planes has such an attitude.
Gene Hubbard
1934 Plans (mostly)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
Clif,
Bernard Pietenpol = Linus Torvalds?
Interesting comparison, but until the family starts giving the plans
away, it's open architecture, not open source ;-)
Larry
(Sorry we're having a brief Geek moment here...)
clif wrote:
>
>Boy, did I ever open a can of worms!
>On to an airplane topic-Grega vrs. Pietenpol.
>Bear with me on this. In computer programming
>you have two opposites-open architecture
>which anyone with the skills can add on to or
>modify and closed arch. which you can't change.
> An example of closed arch would be the Corel
>graphics products. This is capable of giving you
>just about anything you want but you can't make
>changes and it costs an arm and a leg. On the
>other side is GIMP started as a graduate university
> project. It will do the same job and is free to
>download. You are free to modify and make add-
>ons to your hearts content. Now, the Grega is
>a closed arch. product, as are most other offerings.
>The Piet is the other variety. We are free to do
>what we want with it and still call it a Piet so long
>as it retains the basic construction, shape and
>flying characteristics. If Bernard were still around
>I believe he would be applauding our efforts and be
>there to give a little slap when safety was
>compromised. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it! Clif
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tarrif on Canadian Hardwoods? |
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
Mike,
I couldn't find anything on the government site about the 29% tarrif on
Canadian softwoods. Where did you find the documentation? I would like
to see if it was in response to some other action.
Dick Hartwig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | diagonals on fuselage bottom |
Last night I joined my fuselage sides. Probably the single most scary part
about building plane. Everything looks square and true.
Question on the diagonal braces on the bottom of the fuse. Since the
bottom longeron is curved when I put the diagonals in, there will be a gap
between the diagonal and the plywood floor. Is this how you put the
diagonals in or do you have to curve the bottom surface of the diagonal so
it will contact the plywood? or maybe just put some spruce spacers every
few inches?
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: diagonals on fuselage bottom |
DJ
Yes, It goes flat and rises from the ply, but as this is a strut, I
think it only needs the first couple of inches in contact.
I left mine flat with no spacers. Again, if it's not in the plans, you
probably don't need it.
Larry
DJ Vegh wrote:
>
>Last night I joined my fuselage sides. Probably the single most scary part
>about building plane. Everything looks square and true.
>
>Question on the diagonal braces on the bottom of the fuse. Since the
>bottom longeron is curved when I put the diagonals in, there will be a gap
>between the diagonal and the plywood floor. Is this how you put the
>diagonals in or do you have to curve the bottom surface of the diagonal so
>it will contact the plywood? or maybe just put some spruce spacers every
>few inches?
>
>DJ Vegh
>Mesa, AZ
>www.raptoronline.com
>N74DV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Tracy" <mtracy(at)psft.com> |
I believe that in the Fisher system, he specifies a high carbon content
black house paint be used as a UV block. I guess the carbon content has
something to do with UV blocking.
Mark Tracy
mtracy@prosoft-technology.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of George
Allen
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
Mark, yes, UV can get thru. Depends on the chemical makeup of the paint.
Looking at
it another way, glass eyeglasses allow visible and UV to get thru unless
they get a special
coating, but plastic lenses will stop most UV and let the visible thru. It's
all about the chemistry
of the paint and the wave length of the light.
You can get 2 different paints that look exactly the same but viewed under
UV light
one would be bright and the other dark. One reflects that wavelength and the
other absorbs it.
May even allow it to go thru. At that level it's quantum physics and weird.
I think I'll use aluminium in my paint. (if I can find some)
George Allen
Harrisburg, PA
GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
(Peitenpol builder)
>
> If no visable light gets through, can UV rays get through?
> ----- Original Message -----
>>Hey group, house paint is probably made to block UV, but just because
> > it's black doesn't mean a thing to non-visual frequencys. Just a
reminder
> > that what you see isn't always what you get. Metallic paints stop UV
> because
> > the solid metal gets in the way.
> > I've done some work with light transmission and sometimes the results
> > would be very suprising. Visual color has nothing to do with IR or UV
> > transmission.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | another plywood supplier |
Hello, Pieters-
Here's another possible source of plywood for you guys out here on the west
coast. Recommended to me by Tracy O'Brien (who also sells brake and wheel
assemblies, at http://www.tracyobrien.com). Here's the info:
>The material is Okume marine plywood, which is available in a couple
>of different grades (both certified marine), and thicknesses from
>1/16" to 3/4" (or possibly thicker).
>My favorite supplier is Edensaw Woods in Port Townsend, WA.
>800-745-3336; http://www.edensaw.com
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, Oregon
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: another plywood supplier |
Also take a look at
http://www.aitwood.com
especially under "ultra thin plywood"...really beautiful stuff at great prices.
~Cheers,
~Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
>George,
My plane will have at least a year of flying almost
all the week ends, so when you are ready I will answer
honestly about my 10O% latex paint, so you and others
can evaluate the pros ans cons from a 1st hand user.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- George Allen wrote:
>
>
>
> > are you planning on using latex?
>
> Don't know yet. Latex seems to work, listening to
> the group
> if it's done right, but I'm temped to go with an
> alkyd type paint.
> I wonder how Rustoleum with teflon would work?
> Painting is still about a year or more in the
> future.
> But I'm listening.
>
> George Allen
> Harrisburg, PA
> GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
> (Peitenpol builder)
>
> p.s. I got permission to buy a flying airplane so I
> won't have to spend
> EVERY evening in the basement. Does anyone know of
> something like
> a VP 1 or 2, a Smith miniplane, a flybaby, or a Piet
> or something
> less then $8,000 to $9.000 that's for sale within a
> couple hundred miles
> of Harrisburg, PA?? I'm still going to build my
> Piet.
>
http://movies.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
Actually they did give the plans away in the Flying and Glider
magazine. Think of the family as doing something more along
the lines of Red Hat or Slackware.
Dave
My 12 year old is installing Slack on his machine)
>
>
>Clif,
>
>Bernard Pietenpol = Linus Torvalds?
>Interesting comparison, but until the family starts giving the plans
>away, it's open architecture, not open source ;-)
>
>Larry
>(Sorry we're having a brief Geek moment here...)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
guys:
I have a co-worker who's father used to own a Grumman Tiger. He got
alzheimers and had to give up the plane. But they kept the prop as a
keepsake and sold the plane. It's a McCauley 1A170 FFA 7563 (I aint got
the slightest idea what that means) But anyway, I have the prop leaning up
against the wall in my office. It looks like it's in good shape- metal
prop. No major nicks. No cracks or anything that I could see with the
nekkid eye.
I couldnt confirm one way or the other the story on this prop but I have no
reason to think there's any story other than the one I've been told. I told
her I would try to find out how much it's worth. I can then put it on ebay
or barnstormers for her.
Any ideas?
Thanks Bert (who needs a vacation badly)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Tarrif on Canadian Hardwoods? |
Sorry, it's not. This thing comes up regularly.
It goes to international court and the U S gets
its hands slapped. The western U S logging
and lumber giants lobby this into being for
there own nefarous reasons( greed). Clif.
----- Original Message -----
From: <rhartwig11(at)juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tarrif on Canadian Hardwoods?
>
> Mike,
> I couldn't find anything on the government site about the 29% tarrif on
> Canadian softwoods. Where did you find the documentation? I would like
> to see if it was in response to some other action.
> Dick Hartwig
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
There is one particular McCauley prop that you had to take off of the
Grumman (or keep doing a 100 hour repetitive AD). Many, many Grumman owners
have these props lying around, I have one. It is probably one of those, not
much use.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Conoly <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Prop
>
> guys:
>
> I have a co-worker who's father used to own a Grumman Tiger. He got
> alzheimers and had to give up the plane. But they kept the prop as a
> keepsake and sold the plane. It's a McCauley 1A170 FFA 7563 (I aint got
> the slightest idea what that means) But anyway, I have the prop leaning
up
> against the wall in my office. It looks like it's in good shape- metal
> prop. No major nicks. No cracks or anything that I could see with the
> nekkid eye.
>
> I couldnt confirm one way or the other the story on this prop but I have
no
> reason to think there's any story other than the one I've been told. I
told
> her I would try to find out how much it's worth. I can then put it on
ebay
> or barnstormers for her.
>
> Any ideas?
> Thanks Bert (who needs a vacation badly)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
Thanks Gary, I'm saving your address.
George Allen
Harrisburg, PA
GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
(Peitenpol builder)
: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
> >George,
> My plane will have at least a year of flying almost
> all the week ends, so when you are ready I will answer
> honestly about my 10O% latex paint, so you and others
> can evaluate the pros ans cons from a 1st hand user.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
In a message dated 3/24/02 10:32:45 PM Central Standard Time,
markmc(at)bluebonnet.net writes:
I'm using Rustoleum after Poly-tac and poly-brush. Mark >>
That's the way I did it. Rustoleum Oil Based Enamel #7715 Aluminum. This
stuff has about an inch of aluminum powder in the bottom, when it's new. It
takes 20 or 30 minutes to stir up a fresh new gallon !! Be careful how you
apply that first coat, because it soaks right through the fabric, and will
run on the inside. Even after a light first coat, light won't shine through
the fabric. I did have a bit of problem on the test piece I did. The
Rustoleum didn't cover the poly-brush on the first coat, and made 'fish
eyes'. The second coat over the poly-brush covered well, and eliminated
light shining through. As a result of the test piece, I painted the first
coat of Rustoleum only on the poly-brush, and then the second (thin) coat on
the whole wing, then a third, heavier coat.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system |
I'm using Kilz latex(2 light brush coats) over the poly-brush .Then one
cross coat of Rustoleum aluminum (brushed). Then two finish coats spayed
with a gun with naptha as the thinner. I've done the VS and rudder and both
elevators and they have turned out good. They look better than I expected.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fabric system
>
> In a message dated 3/24/02 10:32:45 PM Central Standard Time,
> markmc(at)bluebonnet.net writes:
>
>
> I'm using Rustoleum after Poly-tac and poly-brush. Mark >>
>
> That's the way I did it. Rustoleum Oil Based Enamel #7715 Aluminum.
This
> stuff has about an inch of aluminum powder in the bottom, when it's new.
It
> takes 20 or 30 minutes to stir up a fresh new gallon !! Be careful how
you
> apply that first coat, because it soaks right through the fabric, and will
> run on the inside. Even after a light first coat, light won't shine
through
> the fabric. I did have a bit of problem on the test piece I did. The
> Rustoleum didn't cover the poly-brush on the first coat, and made 'fish
> eyes'. The second coat over the poly-brush covered well, and eliminated
> light shining through. As a result of the test piece, I painted the first
> coat of Rustoleum only on the poly-brush, and then the second (thin) coat
on
> the whole wing, then a third, heavier coat.
> Chuck Gantzer
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | Wing trailing edge... |
I am ordering wood to build ribs, etc. for the wing. In the plans there are
a couple of ways to treat the trailing edge and I have seen how Mike Cuy did
it. In the AS&S Catalog there is an aluminium trailing edge material, formed
like a "V" that I have seen used on other planes such as the Wolf Boredom
Fighter and Pober Pixie (if I recall correctly, it was some form of
parasol). Can any of you think of a good reason not to use it? It seems
strong, especially given the 12 to 12.5 inch rib spacing. Also seems quite
light. I saw a piece in a hangar. TIA.
STATUS REPORT: Botched the bottom edge of the vertical stab while routing
the piece. One little pass left, 50% of the way through and something stuck.
Will finish it up tomorrow night. You can follow my progress in my build
log, see link below.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA 665957
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Wing trailing edge... |
Hi Gary,
I used the aluminum trailing edge from ASS on mine. Works very well - nice
and straight, and very light. One thing to be careful of when using it is
to make sure that the wood of the rib goes all the way to the vertex of the
aluminum. Otherwise, when you begin to shrink the fabric, it will pull the
trailing edge up until it does make contact with the wood. I added small
wedges of spruce onto the flattened tips of the ribs to take up this space.
If my explanation doesn't make sense, email me offline and I will send a
sketch showing what I mean.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
McNeel, Jr.
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing trailing edge...
I am ordering wood to build ribs, etc. for the wing. In the plans there are
a couple of ways to treat the trailing edge and I have seen how Mike Cuy did
it. In the AS&S Catalog there is an aluminium trailing edge material, formed
like a "V" that I have seen used on other planes such as the Wolf Boredom
Fighter and Pober Pixie (if I recall correctly, it was some form of
parasol). Can any of you think of a good reason not to use it? It seems
strong, especially given the 12 to 12.5 inch rib spacing. Also seems quite
light. I saw a piece in a hangar. TIA.
STATUS REPORT: Botched the bottom edge of the vertical stab while routing
the piece. One little pass left, 50% of the way through and something stuck.
Will finish it up tomorrow night. You can follow my progress in my build
log, see link below.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Wing trailing edge... |
Gary,
I just looked at your botched vertical fin piece. Don't worry, there will
be many more! Have you ordered any of the "Bargain Bags of Spruce" from
AS&S? They are true bargains, and many of the smaller pieces on my plane
(such as the one you just screwed up) started their life in my shop as a
bargain bag from AS&S. For $15 you get about $100 worth of good quality
spruce, in various widths and thicknesses, in lenghts from 1' to 5'.
BTW, for the long cuts like the one you were making when it got away from
you, I found it easier to do on a table saw - easier to control and not so
likely to get away from you. I don't have a shaper table, but that would be
the ultimate.
Good luck,
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
McNeel, Jr.
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing trailing edge...
I am ordering wood to build ribs, etc. for the wing. In the plans there are
a couple of ways to treat the trailing edge and I have seen how Mike Cuy did
it. In the AS&S Catalog there is an aluminium trailing edge material, formed
like a "V" that I have seen used on other planes such as the Wolf Boredom
Fighter and Pober Pixie (if I recall correctly, it was some form of
parasol). Can any of you think of a good reason not to use it? It seems
strong, especially given the 12 to 12.5 inch rib spacing. Also seems quite
light. I saw a piece in a hangar. TIA.
STATUS REPORT: Botched the bottom edge of the vertical stab while routing
the piece. One little pass left, 50% of the way through and something stuck.
Will finish it up tomorrow night. You can follow my progress in my build
log, see link below.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA 665957
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing trailing edge... |
Another thing that helps with the TE is to put a dab of thick epoxy on the
ends of the rib instead of spruce wedge. When you pull the TE down (I use a
cargo strap) the epoxy "beds" the edge to the wooden rib tip, filling all
gaps. There won't be any movement then. (I also nail after pulling down
and leave the strap for 24 hours)
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing trailing edge...
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> I used the aluminum trailing edge from ASS on mine. Works very well -
nice
> and straight, and very light. One thing to be careful of when using it is
> to make sure that the wood of the rib goes all the way to the vertex of
the
> aluminum. Otherwise, when you begin to shrink the fabric, it will pull
the
> trailing edge up until it does make contact with the wood. I added small
> wedges of spruce onto the flattened tips of the ribs to take up this
space.
> If my explanation doesn't make sense, email me offline and I will send a
> sketch showing what I mean.
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
> McNeel, Jr.
> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 12:30 AM
> To: Pietenpol Group
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing trailing edge...
>
>
>
> I am ordering wood to build ribs, etc. for the wing. In the plans there
are
> a couple of ways to treat the trailing edge and I have seen how Mike Cuy
did
> it. In the AS&S Catalog there is an aluminium trailing edge material,
formed
> like a "V" that I have seen used on other planes such as the Wolf Boredom
> Fighter and Pober Pixie (if I recall correctly, it was some form of
> parasol). Can any of you think of a good reason not to use it? It seems
> strong, especially given the 12 to 12.5 inch rib spacing. Also seems quite
> light. I saw a piece in a hangar. TIA.
>
> STATUS REPORT: Botched the bottom edge of the vertical stab while routing
> the piece. One little pass left, 50% of the way through and something
stuck.
> Will finish it up tomorrow night. You can follow my progress in my build
> log, see link below.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | Wing trailing edge... |
Thanks Jack. Makes perfect sense. I was comparing it to the Wolf BF design
and thought I might need to modify it. You have confirmed it for me. Hope
all is going well. Sold the Cessna 140 yet? Sweet looking plane.
-Gary
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jack
> Phillips
> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 6:24 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing trailing edge...
>
>
>
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> I used the aluminum trailing edge from ASS on mine. Works very
> well - nice
> and straight, and very light. One thing to be careful of when using it is
> to make sure that the wood of the rib goes all the way to the
> vertex of the
> aluminum. Otherwise, when you begin to shrink the fabric, it
> will pull the
> trailing edge up until it does make contact with the wood. I added small
> wedges of spruce onto the flattened tips of the ribs to take up
> this space.
> If my explanation doesn't make sense, email me offline and I will send a
> sketch showing what I mean.
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
> McNeel, Jr.
> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 12:30 AM
> To: Pietenpol Group
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing trailing edge...
>
>
>
> I am ordering wood to build ribs, etc. for the wing. In the plans
> there are
> a couple of ways to treat the trailing edge and I have seen how
> Mike Cuy did
> it. In the AS&S Catalog there is an aluminium trailing edge
> material, formed
> like a "V" that I have seen used on other planes such as the Wolf Boredom
> Fighter and Pober Pixie (if I recall correctly, it was some form of
> parasol). Can any of you think of a good reason not to use it? It seems
> strong, especially given the 12 to 12.5 inch rib spacing. Also seems quite
> light. I saw a piece in a hangar. TIA.
>
> STATUS REPORT: Botched the bottom edge of the vertical stab while routing
> the piece. One little pass left, 50% of the way through and
> something stuck.
> Will finish it up tomorrow night. You can follow my progress in my build
> log, see link below.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing trailing edge... |
I am ordering wood to build ribs, etc. for the wing. In the plans
there are
a couple of ways to treat the trailing edge and I have seen how Mike
Cuy did
it. In the AS&S Catalog there is an aluminium trailing edge material,
formed
like a "V" that I have seen used on other planes such as the Wolf
Boredom
Fighter and Pober Pixie (if I recall correctly, it was some form of
parasol). Can any of you think of a good reason not to use it? It
seems
strong, especially given the 12 to 12.5 inch rib spacing. Also seems
quite
light. I saw a piece in a hangar. TIA.
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
********************************************************************************************
No reason not to use Al trailing edge. It did.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | Wing trailing edge... |
>
>
> Gary,
>
> I just looked at your botched vertical fin piece. Don't worry, there will
> be many more! Have you ordered any of the "Bargain Bags of Spruce" from
> AS&S? They are true bargains, and many of the smaller pieces on my plane
> (such as the one you just screwed up) started their life in my shop as a
> bargain bag from AS&S. For $15 you get about $100 worth of good quality
> spruce, in various widths and thicknesses, in lenghts from 1' to 5'.
No, I haven't ordered a thing from them yet, but I will do as you suggest
when I do. I have their catalog and started putting together a list.
>
> BTW, for the long cuts like the one you were making when it got away from
> you, I found it easier to do on a table saw - easier to control and not so
> likely to get away from you. I don't have a shaper table, but
> that would be
> the ultimate.
Well, I was using the router table on my table saw. I think what happened is
that as the material was removed from the sides during the routing passes
the piece canted sideways and "tucked" into the bit. Was a real bummer.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
> McNeel, Jr.
> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 12:30 AM
> To: Pietenpol Group
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing trailing edge...
>
>
>
> I am ordering wood to build ribs, etc. for the wing. In the plans
> there are
> a couple of ways to treat the trailing edge and I have seen how
> Mike Cuy did
> it. In the AS&S Catalog there is an aluminium trailing edge
> material, formed
> like a "V" that I have seen used on other planes such as the Wolf Boredom
> Fighter and Pober Pixie (if I recall correctly, it was some form of
> parasol). Can any of you think of a good reason not to use it? It seems
> strong, especially given the 12 to 12.5 inch rib spacing. Also seems quite
> light. I saw a piece in a hangar. TIA.
>
> STATUS REPORT: Botched the bottom edge of the vertical stab while routing
> the piece. One little pass left, 50% of the way through and
> something stuck.
> Will finish it up tomorrow night. You can follow my progress in my build
> log, see link below.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
> MyKitPlane.com
> EAA 665957
> gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
>
> "What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
>
> Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
> a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of
> his plane.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Wing trailing edge... |
Nope, the Cessna is still for sale. Any Piet builders out there who need a
good tailwheel trainer? I've got a 1947 Cessna 140 for sale, due to
unemployment. It has a 100 hp O-200 Continental (more power than the C-85
it came with) and is in good shape. A bargain at $15,500. You could buy
it, fly it while you finish your Piet, and then sell if for more than you
paid for it once the Pietenpol is finished. At least that was my plan.
Unfortunately, the loss of employment means I have to sell it before I
finish the Pietenpol, and having to put a new engine in it meant that I
won't get out of it all the money I've put in it.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
McNeel, Jr.
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing trailing edge...
Thanks Jack. Makes perfect sense. I was comparing it to the Wolf BF design
and thought I might need to modify it. You have confirmed it for me. Hope
all is going well. Sold the Cessna 140 yet? Sweet looking plane.
-Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | Wing trailing edge... |
Another super idea. Man, if we could build a fleet of really nice
Pietenpol's with a composite of all the great ideas... hmmm...
-Gary
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene
> Rambo
> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 7:30 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing trailing edge...
>
>
> Another thing that helps with the TE is to put a dab of thick epoxy on the
> ends of the rib instead of spruce wedge. When you pull the TE
> down (I use a
> cargo strap) the epoxy "beds" the edge to the wooden rib tip, filling all
> gaps. There won't be any movement then. (I also nail after pulling down
> and leave the strap for 24 hours)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing trailing edge...
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi Gary,
> >
> > I used the aluminum trailing edge from ASS on mine. Works very well -
> nice
> > and straight, and very light. One thing to be careful of when
> using it is
> > to make sure that the wood of the rib goes all the way to the vertex of
> the
> > aluminum. Otherwise, when you begin to shrink the fabric, it will pull
> the
> > trailing edge up until it does make contact with the wood. I
> added small
> > wedges of spruce onto the flattened tips of the ribs to take up this
> space.
> > If my explanation doesn't make sense, email me offline and I will send a
> > sketch showing what I mean.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
> > McNeel, Jr.
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 12:30 AM
> > To: Pietenpol Group
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing trailing edge...
> >
> >
> >
> > I am ordering wood to build ribs, etc. for the wing. In the plans there
> are
> > a couple of ways to treat the trailing edge and I have seen how Mike Cuy
> did
> > it. In the AS&S Catalog there is an aluminium trailing edge material,
> formed
> > like a "V" that I have seen used on other planes such as the
> Wolf Boredom
> > Fighter and Pober Pixie (if I recall correctly, it was some form of
> > parasol). Can any of you think of a good reason not to use it? It seems
> > strong, especially given the 12 to 12.5 inch rib spacing. Also
> seems quite
> > light. I saw a piece in a hangar. TIA.
> >
> > STATUS REPORT: Botched the bottom edge of the vertical stab
> while routing
> > the piece. One little pass left, 50% of the way through and something
> stuck.
> > Will finish it up tomorrow night. You can follow my progress in my build
> > log, see link below.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Wing trailing edge... |
Only one thing wrong with that idea. It would be pretty hard to replace the
trailing edge without tearing the rib up. I've already had to replace one
section where an overly enthusuastic airplane admirer stumbled and fell
against the wing, bending one bay of trailing edge. I just pulled the
nails, cut a new section and nailed it in place. Took about 5 minutes (of
course, the wing hasn't been covered yet). When you screw up as much as I
do, you learn to plan for repairs.
Jack
Hey Gene! Are you gonna stop by on your way to Sun 'n' Fun? Hope to see
you then.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
McNeel, Jr.
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing trailing edge...
Another super idea. Man, if we could build a fleet of really nice
Pietenpol's with a composite of all the great ideas... hmmm...
-Gary
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene
> Rambo
> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 7:30 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing trailing edge...
>
>
> Another thing that helps with the TE is to put a dab of thick epoxy on the
> ends of the rib instead of spruce wedge. When you pull the TE
> down (I use a
> cargo strap) the epoxy "beds" the edge to the wooden rib tip, filling all
> gaps. There won't be any movement then. (I also nail after pulling down
> and leave the strap for 24 hours)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing trailing edge...
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi Gary,
> >
> > I used the aluminum trailing edge from ASS on mine. Works very well -
> nice
> > and straight, and very light. One thing to be careful of when
> using it is
> > to make sure that the wood of the rib goes all the way to the vertex of
> the
> > aluminum. Otherwise, when you begin to shrink the fabric, it will pull
> the
> > trailing edge up until it does make contact with the wood. I
> added small
> > wedges of spruce onto the flattened tips of the ribs to take up this
> space.
> > If my explanation doesn't make sense, email me offline and I will send a
> > sketch showing what I mean.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
> > McNeel, Jr.
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 12:30 AM
> > To: Pietenpol Group
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing trailing edge...
> >
> >
> >
> > I am ordering wood to build ribs, etc. for the wing. In the plans there
> are
> > a couple of ways to treat the trailing edge and I have seen how Mike Cuy
> did
> > it. In the AS&S Catalog there is an aluminium trailing edge material,
> formed
> > like a "V" that I have seen used on other planes such as the
> Wolf Boredom
> > Fighter and Pober Pixie (if I recall correctly, it was some form of
> > parasol). Can any of you think of a good reason not to use it? It seems
> > strong, especially given the 12 to 12.5 inch rib spacing. Also
> seems quite
> > light. I saw a piece in a hangar. TIA.
> >
> > STATUS REPORT: Botched the bottom edge of the vertical stab
> while routing
> > the piece. One little pass left, 50% of the way through and something
> stuck.
> > Will finish it up tomorrow night. You can follow my progress in my build
> > log, see link below.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Diagonals on fuselage bottom |
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
DJ,
None of the bays in the lower fuselage has both a diagonal and full ply.
Only the forward 4 or 5 inches of the longest diagonal comes as far
forward as the plywood and you will probably not notice any gap between
the diagonal and the ply.--Dick Hartwig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Diagonals on fuselage bottom |
Dick, Are you talking about the piet or the GN?
I think DJ's building the GN. It does have plywood floor from rear seat to
tail-post (although I'm not really sure it's necessary).
All I did with mine was lay the plywood down and glue it to the longerons
and cross members. This left a small (about 1/8 in.) gap between the ply
and the diagonal - this is because of the curved profile of the fuselage
bottom. I simply took some plywood, cut strips the width of the diagonals,
tapered the thickness down on each end with a belt sander to approximate the
decreasing gap width on each end and glued that bad-boy in there. All it
really did was act as a filler between the ply and diagonal.
Just my 1/50th of a buck.
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: <rhartwig11(at)juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Diagonals on fuselage bottom
>
> DJ,
> None of the bays in the lower fuselage has both a diagonal and full ply.
> Only the forward 4 or 5 inches of the longest diagonal comes as far
> forward as the plywood and you will probably not notice any gap between
> the diagonal and the ply.--Dick Hartwig
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
Have any of you had any experience with Sirius Aviation, located here in
Texas? I would like to give a smaller company a shot at some of my business.
They are at http://www.sirius-aviation.com. If good, post to group, if not
so good, please send to me off list. TIA.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA 665957
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | end ribs' extra bracing |
Pieters,
On my piet plans (drawn by Hoopman) on the rib sheet it is noted to use 5
extra
braces on 2 end ribs only. I take this to mean the extra braces are used on
the left end rib and on the right end rib. Two ribs with the extra
treatment. (( But it might mean extra braces on the 2 end ribs on the left
and the 2 end ribs on the right --- that would be 4 ribs with the extra
treatment. ))
Can someone in the know put me straight on this?
thanks
Henry Williams (Borodent)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: end ribs' extra bracing |
Extra bracing is for the outer rib on each end of the wing.
Greg Cardinal
>>> Borodent(at)aol.com 03/27/02 12:20AM >>>
Pieters,
On my piet plans (drawn by Hoopman) on the rib sheet it is noted to use 5
extra
braces on 2 end ribs only. I take this to mean the extra braces are used on
the left end rib and on the right end rib. Two ribs with the extra
treatment. (( But it might mean extra braces on the 2 end ribs on the left
and the 2 end ribs on the right --- that would be 4 ribs with the extra
treatment. ))
Can someone in the know put me straight on this?
thanks
Henry Williams (Borodent)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Ed G.) |
| Subject: | Re: end ribs' extra bracing |
The extra braced ribs are also used on the inner ends of the three piece
wing aren't they? They are stiffer to help stop the fabric from pulling
them out of shape. The plans only address the one piece wing. thats why
they only call for two. I even used extra braced ribs on the ends of my
center section for a total of six. But then I'm no Piet expert . How
about some more input. Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
| Subject: | end ribs' extra bracing |
No reason for extra vertical bracing on the inboard ribs--the fabric isn't
pulling in that direction. I had to do quite a bit of rework to get space
for the root fitting bolts even without the extra structure. That said, I
know that some people put a solid 1/16 plywood web on the inboard rib.
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
-----Original Message-----
From: flyboy_120(at)webtv.net [mailto:flyboy_120(at)webtv.net]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: end ribs' extra bracing
The extra braced ribs are also used on the inner ends of the three piece
wing aren't they? They are stiffer to help stop the fabric from pulling
them out of shape. The plans only address the one piece wing. thats why
they only call for two. I even used extra braced ribs on the ends of my
center section for a total of six. But then I'm no Piet expert . How
about some more input. Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: end ribs' extra bracing |
I used the added bracing rib on the last out on the ends before bow, and on
both sides of the joint of the three piece wing. ( that would be a total of
6) Also did the 2"wide ply, and the 1/2X1/2 diagonal bracing called out on
the three piece wing print.
OR in other words, built to the print. Covered the second wing in the last
few weeks, with absolutely no distortion at all.
Once you start to tighten and start to get distortion, you're screwed.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: <Borodent(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: end ribs' extra bracing
>
> Pieters,
> On my piet plans (drawn by Hoopman) on the rib sheet it is noted to use 5
> extra
> braces on 2 end ribs only. I take this to mean the extra braces are used
on
> the left end rib and on the right end rib. Two ribs with the extra
> treatment. (( But it might mean extra braces on the 2 end ribs on the
left
> and the 2 end ribs on the right --- that would be 4 ribs with the extra
> treatment. ))
> Can someone in the know put me straight on this?
> thanks
> Henry Williams (Borodent)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: end ribs' extra bracing |
I built my three piece wing with the extra bracing on six ribs:
the tip ribs, the butt ribs and the center section ribs.
There has never been a problem with the tip ribs, but fabric
tension has distorted the butt ribs in a spanwise direction de-
spite the extra bracing I provided (similar to that used by Pi-
per and others). The center section ribs have bowed in a bit,
but not as much as the butt ribs.
I think I have in my Pietenpol a good example for a longevity
test at close to 32 years, and my experience may be of help
to others. Today's builders will likely not have my distortion
problem because I used butyrate dope which tends to continue
shrinking over time, imposing loads which will distort a light
structure such as a rib. Modern finishes don't have the tauten-
ing feature of dope and, with synthetic fabric, the proper ten-
sion is established by heat shrinking.
One thing I have noticed with elderly Pietenpols is that the top
rib capstrip tends flatten and lose its curvature between the
gusseted joints. The span between these in the Warren-type
rib truss is a bit too great. The fix, which I have used at recover-
ing time, is to install a nearly-vertical 1/2" x 1/4" spruce member
with the lower end epoxied in the gusset pocket of the lower cap-
strip. The upper end is simply epoxied to the underside of the
upper capstrip with a single 1/2" nail to hold it in place while the
epoxy cures. Only two of these per rib are required and they are
most effective, adding very little weight. If you look at the Pieten-
pol rib truss, you will get the picture. The three old Piets in our
area that I have dealt with (built in 1967, 1970 and 1975) have
all had this problem. When I get around to recovering mine, I'll
have to deal with it in the manner described above.
Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | end ribs' extra bracing |
Thanks, Graham,
Good information to have, from an authority who can speak from experience.
I wonder if the newer polyester fabrics finished without tautening dope will
exhibit this problem?
Thanks for the input.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
Hansen
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: end ribs' extra bracing
<grhans@cable-lynx.net>
I built my three piece wing with the extra bracing on six ribs:
the tip ribs, the butt ribs and the center section ribs.
There has never been a problem with the tip ribs, but fabric
tension has distorted the butt ribs in a spanwise direction de-
spite the extra bracing I provided (similar to that used by Pi-
per and others). The center section ribs have bowed in a bit,
but not as much as the butt ribs.
I think I have in my Pietenpol a good example for a longevity
test at close to 32 years, and my experience may be of help
to others. Today's builders will likely not have my distortion
problem because I used butyrate dope which tends to continue
shrinking over time, imposing loads which will distort a light
structure such as a rib. Modern finishes don't have the tauten-
ing feature of dope and, with synthetic fabric, the proper ten-
sion is established by heat shrinking.
One thing I have noticed with elderly Pietenpols is that the top
rib capstrip tends flatten and lose its curvature between the
gusseted joints. The span between these in the Warren-type
rib truss is a bit too great. The fix, which I have used at recover-
ing time, is to install a nearly-vertical 1/2" x 1/4" spruce member
with the lower end epoxied in the gusset pocket of the lower cap-
strip. The upper end is simply epoxied to the underside of the
upper capstrip with a single 1/2" nail to hold it in place while the
epoxy cures. Only two of these per rib are required and they are
most effective, adding very little weight. If you look at the Pieten-
pol rib truss, you will get the picture. The three old Piets in our
area that I have dealt with (built in 1967, 1970 and 1975) have
all had this problem. When I get around to recovering mine, I'll
have to deal with it in the manner described above.
Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:spar material |
Pieters, I went to McCormicks yesterday at Madison Wisc and bought my
spruce for the spars. Cost was $8.00 dollars a board foot and I got
excellent material. I bought three picesis 9, 11 aand 12 inches wide 17
feet long for $360. and will have the 12 inch one left over. They finished
out at .875 and the grain is great. They sell the material for the ice boat
builders. They also sell some plywood and the West system for protection
wooden boats. I think it would be good to cover the wood to protect it from
the fabric finishing materials. Hopes this might help Ken in spring like
Iowa PS They have a web site
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: end ribs' extra bracing |
I used 1/8" ply on my inboard ribs and still got a 1/4" distortion when the
fabric was totally streched. I have a one oiece wing. I solved the problem
by installing two threaded rods to tie the ribs together. I used a #4 x 40
x 36" stainless rod with a small oak backing plate to draw the ribs back
together, They only weigh a couple of ounces and fit above the fuel tank.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: end ribs' extra bracing
>
> No reason for extra vertical bracing on the inboard ribs--the fabric isn't
> pulling in that direction. I had to do quite a bit of rework to get space
> for the root fitting bolts even without the extra structure. That said, I
> know that some people put a solid 1/16 plywood web on the inboard rib.
>
> Gene Hubbard
> San Diego
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flyboy_120(at)webtv.net [mailto:flyboy_120(at)webtv.net]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: end ribs' extra bracing
>
>
> The extra braced ribs are also used on the inner ends of the three piece
> wing aren't they? They are stiffer to help stop the fabric from pulling
> them out of shape. The plans only address the one piece wing. thats why
> they only call for two. I even used extra braced ribs on the ends of my
> center section for a total of six. But then I'm no Piet expert . How
> about some more input. Ed
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
whats the most popular method of varnishing? epoxy or spar varnish?
I've been using spar varnish because of it's ease of application, but will
have to put a coat of epoxy over it where fabric will be glued.
I'm just curious as to what method others prefer.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | another 4130 supplier |
Hello, low 'n' slow fliers;
Another source of metal tubing and stuff for you. I bought all of my 4130
tubing from Shapiro Supply in St. Louis, MO (http://www.shapirosupply.com)
and their prices beat Aircraft Spruce and Wicks for the materials that I
needed. They don't carry everything, but do have the most common sizes. I
made up a complete list and ordered everything I needed at one time, rather
than piecing it out. It turns out that unless you're building a
tube-and-rag airplane, the cost of the raw 4130 isn't a big part of the
project cost anyway.
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, Oregon
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | my fuse is alive and breathing |
I joined fuselage sides this past Sunday.... what a tedious and nervous
event. The results are great . A true and square fuse. I temporarily
clamped the tail feathers on just to see how she looks. here's a couple
shots of it as of yesterday.
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/images/03-26-02-fuse-DJ.jpg
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/images/03-26-02-fuse-DJ-2.jpg
How exciting... it's taking shape!
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 (DV-1?)Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craigo" <craigwilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wood protection |
On Wed, 27 March 2002, "DJ Vegh" wrote
> whats the most popular method of varnishing? epoxy
or spar varnish?
> I've been using spar varnish because of it's ease of
application, but will
> have to put a coat of epoxy over it where fabric will
be glued.
DJ, In the past I've used spar varnish, polyurethane,
and epoxy. The solvent in the Polyfiber provess (MEK)
will generally lift spar varnish with no problem, at
least the brands I've used. Minwax polyurethane, if
put on more than 2 or 3 weeks in advance, seems to
resist the solvent.
The epoxy - nothing seems to touch it. I have both
sprayed and brushed, and prefer spraying. Use the
proper thinner (believe it's called 8500 epoxy reducer)
to get the thickness down, and be sure to let it sit
for about an hour after mixing, before spraying. Two
thin spray coats and you are good to go.
Been following your progress on this list - seems like
you are having fun AND educating yourself - the two
main goals of our weird hobby!
Craig
Lake Worth, FL
Bakeng Duce NX96CW
PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart.
http://www.peoplepc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wood protection |
Be sure and follow the instructions on the two-part epoxy offered by
Polyfiber. It recommends a setting up or curing time after mixing ,if I
remember right of 45 minutes (or an hour or something) Somehow if you apply
the stuff without allowing a curing time, it just never hardens - I don't
know why, but I tried it without waiting and it was so tacky 5 days later
you couldnt touch it. I had to sand (boy that was fun) evry bit off and
start over. Sure enough this time I followed the directions and it worked
perfectly. Go figure....
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craigo" <craigwilcox(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood protection
>
> On Wed, 27 March 2002, "DJ Vegh" wrote
>
>
> > whats the most popular method of varnishing? epoxy
> or spar varnish?
> > I've been using spar varnish because of it's ease of
> application, but will
> > have to put a coat of epoxy over it where fabric will
> be glued.
>
> DJ, In the past I've used spar varnish, polyurethane,
> and epoxy. The solvent in the Polyfiber provess (MEK)
> will generally lift spar varnish with no problem, at
> least the brands I've used. Minwax polyurethane, if
> put on more than 2 or 3 weeks in advance, seems to
> resist the solvent.
> The epoxy - nothing seems to touch it. I have both
> sprayed and brushed, and prefer spraying. Use the
> proper thinner (believe it's called 8500 epoxy reducer)
> to get the thickness down, and be sure to let it sit
> for about an hour after mixing, before spraying. Two
> thin spray coats and you are good to go.
> Been following your progress on this list - seems like
> you are having fun AND educating yourself - the two
> main goals of our weird hobby!
>
> Craig
> Lake Worth, FL
> Bakeng Duce NX96CW
> PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart.
> http://www.peoplepc.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | my fuse is alive and breathing |
Looking great DJ. Good work.
-Gary McNeel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 11:36 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: my fuse is alive and breathing
>
>
> I joined fuselage sides this past Sunday.... what a tedious and nervous
> event. The results are great . A true and square fuse. I temporarily
> clamped the tail feathers on just to see how she looks. here's a couple
> shots of it as of yesterday.
>
> http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/images/03-26-02-fuse-DJ.jpg
>
> http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/images/03-26-02-fuse-DJ-2.jpg
>
> How exciting... it's taking shape!
>
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 (DV-1?)Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
DJ's assembly of his fuselage brings up a question I have had for some time
now. With regard to the tail post, the Piet plans show on Drawing 1 that the
two sides (rear longerons) are tapered near the back and then joined so that
the final join is about 1" wide where the rudder hinges to the fuselage. Is
this correct? How do you achieve that taper? Before assembling the
individual sides while the longerons are still not glued to anything?
I have not seen a Piet up close and hope to one day. Any pictures of the
rear area would help. Thanks.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA 665957
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
Gary,
I did a post on the fuse some time ago, you might want to look in the
archives...
You've got it right though. Clamp down the fuselage and pull the ends
together, go slowly. Mark a line across the bent ends using your
centerline, top, bottom and on the ends. I used a belt sander to remove
most of the wood. For getting the last bit of fit, I wrapped sandpaper
around a long piece of 1/8 ply and pressed the sides in against it with
bungees. This will clean up a nice flat mating surface. Be sure to
align the joint against you centerline, all of this works best if the
fuse is upside down supported 1/2" or so off the table with scrap.
Larry
Gary McNeel, Jr. wrote:
>
>DJ's assembly of his fuselage brings up a question I have had for some time
>now. With regard to the tail post, the Piet plans show on Drawing 1 that the
>two sides (rear longerons) are tapered near the back and then joined so that
>the final join is about 1" wide where the rudder hinges to the fuselage. Is
>this correct? How do you achieve that taper? Before assembling the
>individual sides while the longerons are still not glued to anything?
>
>I have not seen a Piet up close and hope to one day. Any pictures of the
>rear area would help. Thanks.
>
>Regards,
>
>Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
>MyKitPlane.com
>EAA 665957
>gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
>http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
>
>"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
>
> Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
>a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
Gary go here and look at my close ups of this area...
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-24-02.htm
I put my fuse in the jig on the table and pulled the tail post together
before gluing.... I drew lines on both sides .... I then pulled the fuse
sides off the table and used a belt sander with 50 grit paper and carefully
worked my way down. It's a bit tricky but can be done in less than 20
minutes.
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
GN-1 (DV-1?) Builder
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
McNeel, Jr.
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail Post
DJ's assembly of his fuselage brings up a question I have had for some time
now. With regard to the tail post, the Piet plans show on Drawing 1 that the
two sides (rear longerons) are tapered near the back and then joined so that
the final join is about 1" wide where the rudder hinges to the fuselage. Is
this correct? How do you achieve that taper? Before assembling the
individual sides while the longerons are still not glued to anything?
I have not seen a Piet up close and hope to one day. Any pictures of the
rear area would help. Thanks.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA 665957
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
Mystery solved. Thank you Larry.
-Gary
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry
> Neal
> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 8:32 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Post
>
>
> Gary,
>
> I did a post on the fuse some time ago, you might want to look in the
> archives...
> You've got it right though. Clamp down the fuselage and pull the ends
> together, go slowly. Mark a line across the bent ends using your
> centerline, top, bottom and on the ends. I used a belt sander to remove
> most of the wood. For getting the last bit of fit, I wrapped sandpaper
> around a long piece of 1/8 ply and pressed the sides in against it with
> bungees. This will clean up a nice flat mating surface. Be sure to
> align the joint against you centerline, all of this works best if the
> fuse is upside down supported 1/2" or so off the table with scrap.
>
> Larry
>
>
> Gary McNeel, Jr. wrote:
>
>
> >
> >DJ's assembly of his fuselage brings up a question I have had
> for some time
> >now. With regard to the tail post, the Piet plans show on
> Drawing 1 that the
> >two sides (rear longerons) are tapered near the back and then
> joined so that
> >the final join is about 1" wide where the rudder hinges to the
> fuselage. Is
> >this correct? How do you achieve that taper? Before assembling the
> >individual sides while the longerons are still not glued to anything?
> >
> >I have not seen a Piet up close and hope to one day. Any pictures of the
> >rear area would help. Thanks.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
> >MyKitPlane.com
> >EAA 665957
> >gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
> >http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
> >
> >"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
> >
> > Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words,
> in reply to
> >a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit
> of his plane.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Sheets" <doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: my fuse is alive and breathing |
Great shots! I like the sunshine even better. It's still 24 degrees and snow
in dreary NW PA --- We're right behind you, joining our sides in the next
two weeks. Thanks for the Pics.
Doug Sheets
doug(at)layke.com
>From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: my fuse is alive and breathing
>Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:35:37 -0700
>
>
>I joined fuselage sides this past Sunday.... what a tedious and nervous
>event. The results are great . A true and square fuse. I temporarily
>clamped the tail feathers on just to see how she looks. here's a couple
>shots of it as of yesterday.
>
>http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/images/03-26-02-fuse-DJ.jpg
>
>http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/images/03-26-02-fuse-DJ-2.jpg
>
>How exciting... it's taking shape!
>
>
>DJ Vegh
>Mesa, AZ
>GN-1 (DV-1?)Builder
>www.raptoronline.com
>N74DV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
Thanks DJ. That is a great picture. The work is looking great. The wood is beautiful.
I started with an old spar given to me by a friend. Great looking, but
darker in color than the new wood I am ordering.
Your site is well down and should be helpful to future builders. This just helped
me.
-Gary
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:43:21 -0700
>
>Gary go here and look at my close ups of this area...
>
>http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-24-02.htm
>
>I put my fuse in the jig on the table and pulled the tail post together
>before gluing.... I drew lines on both sides .... I then pulled the fuse
>sides off the table and used a belt sander with 50 grit paper and carefully
>worked my way down. It's a bit tricky but can be done in less than 20
>minutes.
>
>DJ Vegh
>Mesa, AZ
>GN-1 (DV-1?) Builder
>www.raptoronline.com
>N74DV
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
>McNeel, Jr.
>To: Pietenpol Group
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail Post
>
>
>
>
>DJ's assembly of his fuselage brings up a question I have had for some time
>now. With regard to the tail post, the Piet plans show on Drawing 1 that the
>two sides (rear longerons) are tapered near the back and then joined so that
>the final join is about 1" wide where the rudder hinges to the fuselage. Is
>this correct? How do you achieve that taper? Before assembling the
>individual sides while the longerons are still not glued to anything?
>
>I have not seen a Piet up close and hope to one day. Any pictures of the
>rear area would help. Thanks.
>
>Regards,
>
>Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
>MyKitPlane.com
>EAA 665957
>gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
>http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
>
>"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
>
> Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
>a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
| Subject: | end ribs' extra bracing |
Are you talking about spanwise or vertically? For spanwise bracing on my
3-piece wing, I have every piece of bracing that I could find on the plans.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Navratril [mailto:horzpool(at)goldengate.net]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: end ribs' extra bracing
I used 1/8" ply on my inboard ribs and still got a 1/4" distortion when the
fabric was totally streched. I have a one oiece wing. I solved the problem
by installing two threaded rods to tie the ribs together. I used a #4 x 40
x 36" stainless rod with a small oak backing plate to draw the ribs back
together, They only weigh a couple of ounces and fit above the fuel tank.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: end ribs' extra bracing
>
> No reason for extra vertical bracing on the inboard ribs--the fabric isn't
> pulling in that direction. I had to do quite a bit of rework to get space
> for the root fitting bolts even without the extra structure. That said, I
> know that some people put a solid 1/16 plywood web on the inboard rib.
>
> Gene Hubbard
> San Diego
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flyboy_120(at)webtv.net [mailto:flyboy_120(at)webtv.net]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: end ribs' extra bracing
>
>
> The extra braced ribs are also used on the inner ends of the three piece
> wing aren't they? They are stiffer to help stop the fabric from pulling
> them out of shape. The plans only address the one piece wing. thats why
> they only call for two. I even used extra braced ribs on the ends of my
> center section for a total of six. But then I'm no Piet expert . How
> about some more input. Ed
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
I guess sometimes you get lucky. I've been giving the stuff its half hour
of sitting time, but dipping bolts while waiting. So I guess if I ever need
to get the bolts out, I might be able to. I expect it works just as well as
a moisture barrier sticky or hard.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Bert Conoly [mailto:bconoly(at)earthlink.net]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood protection
Be sure and follow the instructions on the two-part epoxy offered by
Polyfiber. It recommends a setting up or curing time after mixing ,if I
remember right of 45 minutes (or an hour or something) Somehow if you apply
the stuff without allowing a curing time, it just never hardens - I don't
know why, but I tried it without waiting and it was so tacky 5 days later
you couldnt touch it. I had to sand (boy that was fun) evry bit off and
start over. Sure enough this time I followed the directions and it worked
perfectly. Go figure....
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craigo" <craigwilcox(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood protection
>
> On Wed, 27 March 2002, "DJ Vegh" wrote
>
>
> > whats the most popular method of varnishing? epoxy
> or spar varnish?
> > I've been using spar varnish because of it's ease of
> application, but will
> > have to put a coat of epoxy over it where fabric will
> be glued.
>
> DJ, In the past I've used spar varnish, polyurethane,
> and epoxy. The solvent in the Polyfiber provess (MEK)
> will generally lift spar varnish with no problem, at
> least the brands I've used. Minwax polyurethane, if
> put on more than 2 or 3 weeks in advance, seems to
> resist the solvent.
> The epoxy - nothing seems to touch it. I have both
> sprayed and brushed, and prefer spraying. Use the
> proper thinner (believe it's called 8500 epoxy reducer)
> to get the thickness down, and be sure to let it sit
> for about an hour after mixing, before spraying. Two
> thin spray coats and you are good to go.
> Been following your progress on this list - seems like
> you are having fun AND educating yourself - the two
> main goals of our weird hobby!
>
> Craig
> Lake Worth, FL
> Bakeng Duce NX96CW
> PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart.
> http://www.peoplepc.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol forum at Sun'n' Fun not on present list |
I have reviewed the list of forums that are slated for presentation at Sun
'n' Fun and do not find anything about the Pietenpol. I have contacted
chiefpilot1946(at)cs.com with the following:
"I have just been alerted to the fact that a Pietenpol forum is not on the
schedule at SnF.
This has always been a well attended forum in the past. With over 400
Pietenpols registered in the US, and more being built every day, it would
seem that a forum on the Piet would be in order. In the past, Bill Rewey
of Verona WI was the presenter. I will contact Bill today. However, if he
cannot be available, I'm sure that we can have several other knowledgeable
people to present the subject."
So, Piet'rs, if you want a forum, get in touch with chiefpilot1946(at)cs.com
and say so!
We've got some great people in this group who could easily make a
presentation. In fact, it would be nice to have a number of guys to
present 5 minutes each on some particular part of the forum. That way, we
could all meet each other and really get acquainted. Any takers or
suggestions?
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: my fuse is alive and breathing |
DJ,
Looks great!! From what I can see, your workmanship looks really nice.
Keep plugging.
Be honest, you DID make some motor noises while you were sitting there,
didn't you?
Not to mention the odd looks from the cars going by.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: my fuse is alive and breathing
>
> I joined fuselage sides this past Sunday.... what a tedious and nervous
> event. The results are great . A true and square fuse. I temporarily
> clamped the tail feathers on just to see how she looks. here's a couple
> shots of it as of yesterday.
>
> http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/images/03-26-02-fuse-DJ.jpg
>
> http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/images/03-26-02-fuse-DJ-2.jpg
>
> How exciting... it's taking shape!
>
>
> DJ Vegh
> Mesa, AZ
> GN-1 (DV-1?)Builder
> www.raptoronline.com
> N74DV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesJboyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: my fuse is alive and breathing |
In a message dated 3/27/2002 9:36:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
aircamper(at)imagedv.com writes:
> http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/images/03-26-02-fuse-DJ-2.jpg
Hey DJ,
Its really looking good. It is exciting when you get to where you can sit in
it and make airplane noises. Just watch your altitude, the lifts not great
right now.
Cheers, Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | How good it is... |
I just took a trip over to alt.aviation.homebuilt for the first time in
about six years. Jeez, what a mess...
Thought I'd see what Col. Tice, Badwater Bill, Ron Wattanaja et al were
up too.
Ron's still around, the guy's a real treasure. The infamous Jim
Campbell is still stirring up trouble, but no sign of the others though.
Clay Tice was a character, he and another P-38 driver that reminded me
a lot of Corky, but darned if I can remember his name. Last I heard
Clay had leukemia though and we may have lost a good-un.
I'll probably check in again and ask around, but this did not seem like
a good night for it. Anyone that thinks the Piet list is out of control
should go take a look. About an hour of reading this stuff made the
fist-fights on the Piet list look pretty tame.
Like comparing a knife fight in a Singapore back alley to a bunch of
little old ladies pissing about bridge scores ;-)
Larry
(The baby's here, so ya'll can call me grandpa now...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How good it is... |
Larry Neal.
>> (The baby's here, so ya'll can call me grandpa now...)
>
Way to go, Larry! You done good!
Bert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How good it is... |
Glad to join the distinguished group Bert, thanks!
.... now let's spoil 'em rotten ;-)
Larry
Bert Conoly wrote:
>
>Larry Neal.
>
>
>>>(The baby's here, so ya'll can call me grandpa now...)
>>>
>
>Way to go, Larry! You done good!
>Bert
>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Just make sure you don't cut the two rear-most uprights down to 1/2"
thinking that when you pull them together they'll be right. If you do, you
leave a wedge of space between them. The rear two uprights are 1/2" at
their thinnest (rearmost) face, they are wedge-shaped and nearly the full 1"
thick on their forward face.
I didn't do it, Replicraft did.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Post
>
> Gary,
>
> I did a post on the fuse some time ago, you might want to look in the
> archives...
> You've got it right though. Clamp down the fuselage and pull the ends
> together, go slowly. Mark a line across the bent ends using your
> centerline, top, bottom and on the ends. I used a belt sander to remove
> most of the wood. For getting the last bit of fit, I wrapped sandpaper
> around a long piece of 1/8 ply and pressed the sides in against it with
> bungees. This will clean up a nice flat mating surface. Be sure to
> align the joint against you centerline, all of this works best if the
> fuse is upside down supported 1/2" or so off the table with scrap.
>
> Larry
>
>
> Gary McNeel, Jr. wrote:
>
> >
> >DJ's assembly of his fuselage brings up a question I have had for some
time
> >now. With regard to the tail post, the Piet plans show on Drawing 1 that
the
> >two sides (rear longerons) are tapered near the back and then joined so
that
> >the final join is about 1" wide where the rudder hinges to the fuselage.
Is
> >this correct? How do you achieve that taper? Before assembling the
> >individual sides while the longerons are still not glued to anything?
> >
> >I have not seen a Piet up close and hope to one day. Any pictures of the
> >rear area would help. Thanks.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
> >MyKitPlane.com
> >EAA 665957
> >gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
> >http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
> >
> >"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
> >
> > Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply
to
> >a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his
plane.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: end ribs' extra bracing |
The tops of both inboard ribs pulled out towards the tips. The bottoms are
held in place by the plywood bottom of the fuel tank base.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: end ribs' extra bracing
>
> Are you talking about spanwise or vertically? For spanwise bracing on my
> 3-piece wing, I have every piece of bracing that I could find on the
plans.
>
> Gene
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Navratril [mailto:horzpool(at)goldengate.net]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: end ribs' extra bracing
>
>
>
>
> I used 1/8" ply on my inboard ribs and still got a 1/4" distortion when
the
> fabric was totally streched. I have a one oiece wing. I solved the
problem
> by installing two threaded rods to tie the ribs together. I used a #4 x
40
> x 36" stainless rod with a small oak backing plate to draw the ribs back
> together, They only weigh a couple of ounces and fit above the fuel tank.
> Dick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: end ribs' extra bracing
>
>
>
> >
> > No reason for extra vertical bracing on the inboard ribs--the fabric
isn't
> > pulling in that direction. I had to do quite a bit of rework to get
space
> > for the root fitting bolts even without the extra structure. That said,
I
> > know that some people put a solid 1/16 plywood web on the inboard rib.
> >
> > Gene Hubbard
> > San Diego
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: flyboy_120(at)webtv.net [mailto:flyboy_120(at)webtv.net]
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: end ribs' extra bracing
> >
> >
> >
> > The extra braced ribs are also used on the inner ends of the three piece
> > wing aren't they? They are stiffer to help stop the fabric from pulling
> > them out of shape. The plans only address the one piece wing. thats why
> > they only call for two. I even used extra braced ribs on the ends of my
> > center section for a total of six. But then I'm no Piet expert . How
> > about some more input. Ed
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com> |
Gentlemen,
I will be going down to Aircraft Spruce Saturday if all goes well. I
plan on picking up a couple of grab bags of wood and starting on my
ribs. I know there are links to aa couple of different sites with rib
jigs and how they were made. If you all could repost, I would appreciate
it. Thanks,
Doug B. Soon to be builder of the might fine Pietenpol !!!!
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
ArrowBear Lake Ca.
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | How good it is... |
Congrats on the baby, grandpa! -Gary
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry
> Neal
> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:00 PM
> To: piet list
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: How good it is...
>
>
> I just took a trip over to alt.aviation.homebuilt for the first time in
> about six years. Jeez, what a mess...
>
> Thought I'd see what Col. Tice, Badwater Bill, Ron Wattanaja et al were
> up too.
> Ron's still around, the guy's a real treasure. The infamous Jim
> Campbell is still stirring up trouble, but no sign of the others though.
> Clay Tice was a character, he and another P-38 driver that reminded me
> a lot of Corky, but darned if I can remember his name. Last I heard
> Clay had leukemia though and we may have lost a good-un.
>
> I'll probably check in again and ask around, but this did not seem like
> a good night for it. Anyone that thinks the Piet list is out of control
> should go take a look. About an hour of reading this stuff made the
> fist-fights on the Piet list look pretty tame.
>
> Like comparing a knife fight in a Singapore back alley to a bunch of
> little old ladies pissing about bridge scores ;-)
>
> Larry
> (The baby's here, so ya'll can call me grandpa now...)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
Guys, I need a little emotional support here...
I have been building a wooden wing airplane of another design and have about
100 hours into it. It has been an on and off project for several years and
in that time, I have gained skills and information regarding construction,
largely due to this group. Now I look at my almost complete wing and am
unsatisfied with the result. Additionally, I wish I had started with a Piet
at this point.
The part I need help with is the fact that there's a lot of good spruce in
those spars that I'll never use. I've got the compression ribs glued in so
I'll have to tear the damn thing up at this point. HELP! I feel like I've
got to take Old Yeller out back and shoot him. This wing has been a part of
my life for longer than my wife and kid!
Distressed,
Robert Haines
Du Quoin, Illinois
Pietenpol plans in hand,
GN-1 plans,
Model-A engine in the garage,
Pober Super Ace wing,
stuck in the middle!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
Hello Robert. I can sympathize. Just the difference in my work between the
rudder and the vertical stab make me think the same thing. Here is how I see
your dilemma:
1. If you think it is unsafe, ask a local EEA tech counselor to look at it
and give you an unbiased opinion. Not your best buddy though, someone very
objective. If *you* FEEL it is unsafe, I would ditch it and start over. I
think if I FELT I built something unsafe, I would never fly it confidently.
2. Don't tear the wood out, cut it off nearly flush. I have built most of my
tail feathers out of an old Aeronca 1" thick x 5" tall spar that was
carefully detached from everything. I cut it into 1" strips then VERY
carefully used the table saw to plane off the old varnish. Work wonderfully.
This gave me 5 nice 1"x1"x13' planks to work with. Almost no waste. Same
with everything else. You did no mention your spar dimensions, so I don't
know if you could clean them up and reuse them on a Piet. If they are 1" x
5" x 13'3" then you could plane them down to the 3/4" x 3 3/4" spar used on
the 3 piece wing of the Piet.
Also, you did not mention your rib dimensions. Once again, they could be
used for blocking, etc. or possibly you could pass the wood onto another
builder.
Just some thoughts.
Good luck on this tough decision.
-Gary McNeel
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
www.mykitplane.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
> Haines
> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 12:01 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: crazy or not?
>
>
>
>
> Guys, I need a little emotional support here...
>
> I have been building a wooden wing airplane of another design and
> have about
> 100 hours into it. It has been an on and off project for several
> years and
> in that time, I have gained skills and information regarding construction,
> largely due to this group. Now I look at my almost complete wing and am
> unsatisfied with the result. Additionally, I wish I had started
> with a Piet
> at this point.
>
> The part I need help with is the fact that there's a lot of good spruce in
> those spars that I'll never use. I've got the compression ribs
> glued in so
> I'll have to tear the damn thing up at this point. HELP! I
> feel like I've
> got to take Old Yeller out back and shoot him. This wing has
> been a part of
> my life for longer than my wife and kid!
>
> Distressed,
>
> Robert Haines
> Du Quoin, Illinois
>
> Pietenpol plans in hand,
> GN-1 plans,
> Model-A engine in the garage,
> Pober Super Ace wing,
> stuck in the middle!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: crazy or not? |
If you build the Pober, your kid can't fly with you.
Your kid will be in there like a dirty shirt if he
knows he's gonna fly with dad, goggles, helmet
and all( girls too).Do you want to miss out on that?
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: crazy or not?
>
> Guys, I need a little emotional support here...
>
> I have been building a wooden wing airplane of another design and have
about
> 100 hours into it. It has been an on and off project for several years
and
> in that time, I have gained skills and information regarding construction,
> largely due to this group. Now I look at my almost complete wing and am
> unsatisfied with the result. Additionally, I wish I had started with a
Piet
> at this point.
>
> The part I need help with is the fact that there's a lot of good spruce in
> those spars that I'll never use. I've got the compression ribs glued in
so
> I'll have to tear the damn thing up at this point. HELP! I feel like
I've
> got to take Old Yeller out back and shoot him. This wing has been a part
of
> my life for longer than my wife and kid!
>
> Distressed,
>
> Robert Haines
> Du Quoin, Illinois
>
> Pietenpol plans in hand,
> GN-1 plans,
> Model-A engine in the garage,
> Pober Super Ace wing,
> stuck in the middle!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Wilcox" <craigwilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: crazy or not? |
>
> Guys, I need a little emotional support here...
>
Robert, much as I hate to say it BUT - save the spar for reuse, junk the
rest. Chalk it up to learning. Most of us have junked one or another parts
of airplanes, and were lucky to save something good besides the experience.
You can either use the spar as-is, or slice and dice it to make longerons,
cross-pieces, cap strips, tail end group, etc. Heck, if you're careful, you
can use some of the rib material elsewhere.
I've built several single seat airplanes, Formula Vees, etc. Found I much
prefer to be able to offer rides to others. Good luck in future endeavors.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: crazy or not? |
Robert,
I think alot is to be said about being in love with a project. Sounds
corney but I think it's true. You have to be in love with what you are
doing to ratialized all the hours that one spends on it. If you have to
create excuses to go and work on your plane ,,,then you're in love with it.
If you find it a chore,,,then it's time to quit that one.
Lifes too short to waste three years to complete something that your heart
isn't into. If the workmanship is ok, then put the work you've done on Ebay
and sell it to a Pober builder. If you're not ok with that, save the spars
and cut the ribs, and use the mat'l on the short criss/cross rib pieces of
the Piet.
I think you'll be amazed, that when you decide, and take the big step, that
a big weight will come off and building will be fun again.
walt
NX140DL
ps. yeah, alot is to be said about taking people for rides,,,mostly the
kids
In building a project,,,,It's not the destination, but the journey!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: crazy or not?
>
> Guys, I need a little emotional support here...
>
> I have been building a wooden wing airplane of another design and have
about
> 100 hours into it. It has been an on and off project for several years
and
> in that time, I have gained skills and information regarding construction,
> largely due to this group. Now I look at my almost complete wing and am
> unsatisfied with the result. Additionally, I wish I had started with a
Piet
> at this point.
>
> The part I need help with is the fact that there's a lot of good spruce in
> those spars that I'll never use. I've got the compression ribs glued in
so
> I'll have to tear the damn thing up at this point. HELP! I feel like
I've
> got to take Old Yeller out back and shoot him. This wing has been a part
of
> my life for longer than my wife and kid!
>
> Distressed,
>
> Robert Haines
> Du Quoin, Illinois
>
> Pietenpol plans in hand,
> GN-1 plans,
> Model-A engine in the garage,
> Pober Super Ace wing,
> stuck in the middle!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: crazy or not? |
Robert,
I too once stopped a project after investing a lot of time. It was a
Woodstock and I sure learned a lot, but my fuselage just wasn't up to
snuff. Worse yet I had the opportunity to buy another ship with similar
performance.
Down came the jigs and I cut up and reused everything I could.
On starting the Piet, I was amazed at how much better my abilities were
and how much better I was focused on the "new" airplane.
I've also bought plans for a Thorp, VP-1 and Soneri before I started the
Piet. Wasted money and time maybe, but I've got a lot better idea of
what I want now.
It was tough at the time, but starting over was a good thing for me.
Larry
Robert Haines wrote:
>
>Guys, I need a little emotional support here...
>
>I have been building a wooden wing airplane of another design and have about
>100 hours into it. It has been an on and off project for several years and
>in that time, I have gained skills and information regarding construction,
>largely due to this group. Now I look at my almost complete wing and am
>unsatisfied with the result. Additionally, I wish I had started with a Piet
>at this point.
>
>The part I need help with is the fact that there's a lot of good spruce in
>those spars that I'll never use. I've got the compression ribs glued in so
>I'll have to tear the damn thing up at this point. HELP! I feel like I've
>got to take Old Yeller out back and shoot him. This wing has been a part of
>my life for longer than my wife and kid!
>
>Distressed,
>
>Robert Haines
>Du Quoin, Illinois
>
>Pietenpol plans in hand,
>GN-1 plans,
>Model-A engine in the garage,
>Pober Super Ace wing,
>stuck in the middle!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: crazy or not? |
Robert,
Sell the Super Ace wing and plans and buy new spruce and other stuff.
You could probably sell it for more than it would cost for the spars.
Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: crazy or not?
>
> Guys, I need a little emotional support here...
>
> I have been building a wooden wing airplane of another design and have
about
> 100 hours into it. It has been an on and off project for several years
and
> in that time, I have gained skills and information regarding construction,
> largely due to this group. Now I look at my almost complete wing and am
> unsatisfied with the result. Additionally, I wish I had started with a
Piet
> at this point.
>
> The part I need help with is the fact that there's a lot of good spruce in
> those spars that I'll never use. I've got the compression ribs glued in
so
> I'll have to tear the damn thing up at this point. HELP! I feel like
I've
> got to take Old Yeller out back and shoot him. This wing has been a part
of
> my life for longer than my wife and kid!
>
> Distressed,
>
> Robert Haines
> Du Quoin, Illinois
>
> Pietenpol plans in hand,
> GN-1 plans,
> Model-A engine in the garage,
> Pober Super Ace wing,
> stuck in the middle!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: crazy or not? |
Robert,
I agree with Walter, here. Building is a mission for some of us. Don't
confuse yourself trying to rationalize the time you've spent. Heck, I spend
about 100 hours every 2 weeks doing something I dont especially want to
do -working. But the 100 hours you've spent building is "invested" if you
really love it. I've got over 600 hrs in mine over 7 years. If it takes
another 7 or 17 or 27 years, I'll finish it.
I betcha if you scrap this project and move on to a piet (and I'm not
necessarily suggesting you do it), you'll save yourself 100 hrs in the
building of the Piet. Because it sounds like your 100 hrs you've sunk into
your project were way down on the learning curve. Think of all the tricks
and techniques you've learned. You've kinda "practiced" for 100 hrs. I
call it paying tuition.
Hang in there, decide if you want to continue and build your project or
would you rather have a Piet. Either one is a GREAT accomplishment.
Best, Bert (whose presently building a non-flying garden house for his mom)
It IS the journey.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: crazy or not?
>
> Robert,
> I think alot is to be said about being in love with a project. Sounds
> corney but I think it's true. You have to be in love with what you are
> doing to ratialized all the hours that one spends on it. If you have to
> create excuses to go and work on your plane ,,,then you're in love with
it.
> If you find it a chore,,,then it's time to quit that one.
> Lifes too short to waste three years to complete something that your heart
> isn't into. If the workmanship is ok, then put the work you've done on
Ebay
> and sell it to a Pober builder. If you're not ok with that, save the
spars
> and cut the ribs, and use the mat'l on the short criss/cross rib pieces of
> the Piet.
> I think you'll be amazed, that when you decide, and take the big step,
that
> a big weight will come off and building will be fun again.
> walt
> NX140DL
> ps. yeah, alot is to be said about taking people for rides,,,mostly the
> kids
> In building a project,,,,It's not the destination, but the journey!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: crazy or not?
>
>
>
> >
> > Guys, I need a little emotional support here...
> >
> > I have been building a wooden wing airplane of another design and have
> about
> > 100 hours into it. It has been an on and off project for several years
> and
> > in that time, I have gained skills and information regarding
construction,
> > largely due to this group. Now I look at my almost complete wing and am
> > unsatisfied with the result. Additionally, I wish I had started with a
> Piet
> > at this point.
> >
> > The part I need help with is the fact that there's a lot of good spruce
in
> > those spars that I'll never use. I've got the compression ribs glued in
> so
> > I'll have to tear the damn thing up at this point. HELP! I feel like
> I've
> > got to take Old Yeller out back and shoot him. This wing has been a
part
> of
> > my life for longer than my wife and kid!
> >
> > Distressed,
> >
> > Robert Haines
> > Du Quoin, Illinois
> >
> > Pietenpol plans in hand,
> > GN-1 plans,
> > Model-A engine in the garage,
> > Pober Super Ace wing,
> > stuck in the middle!
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brants" <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: crazy or not? |
I have been there. I haven't been that far and then started over but I did
glue up one fuselage side of the Piet and then deliberate over whether it
was good enough or not. I ended up tearing it apart. I cut most of the
wood off as flush as I could so that the majority could be re-used. It
turns out, after I've spoken with people about what I wasn't happy with,
they said it wasn't that important and they wouldn't have started over.
HOWEVER - I'm happy I did. Bottom line is, if you're nervous about it, that
feeling is never going to leave you, especially when your at 3500 ft. Yes,
it sucks to start over and potentially waste some good wood, but if you
begin fresh and make it up to your standards, you'll be much more confident
to get in it and fly it.
just my two cents.
Tom B. MPLS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: crazy or not?
>
> Guys, I need a little emotional support here...
>
> I have been building a wooden wing airplane of another design and have
about
> 100 hours into it. It has been an on and off project for several years
and
> in that time, I have gained skills and information regarding construction,
> largely due to this group. Now I look at my almost complete wing and am
> unsatisfied with the result. Additionally, I wish I had started with a
Piet
> at this point.
>
> The part I need help with is the fact that there's a lot of good spruce in
> those spars that I'll never use. I've got the compression ribs glued in
so
> I'll have to tear the damn thing up at this point. HELP! I feel like
I've
> got to take Old Yeller out back and shoot him. This wing has been a part
of
> my life for longer than my wife and kid!
>
> Distressed,
>
> Robert Haines
> Du Quoin, Illinois
>
> Pietenpol plans in hand,
> GN-1 plans,
> Model-A engine in the garage,
> Pober Super Ace wing,
> stuck in the middle!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: crazy or not? |
Bert,
Hit it right on the head!
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: crazy or not?
>
> Robert,
> I agree with Walter, here. Building is a mission for some of us. Don't
> confuse yourself trying to rationalize the time you've spent. Heck, I
spend
> about 100 hours every 2 weeks doing something I dont especially want to
> do -working. But the 100 hours you've spent building is "invested" if you
> really love it. I've got over 600 hrs in mine over 7 years. If it takes
> another 7 or 17 or 27 years, I'll finish it.
>
> I betcha if you scrap this project and move on to a piet (and I'm not
> necessarily suggesting you do it), you'll save yourself 100 hrs in the
> building of the Piet. Because it sounds like your 100 hrs you've sunk
into
> your project were way down on the learning curve. Think of all the tricks
> and techniques you've learned. You've kinda "practiced" for 100 hrs. I
> call it paying tuition.
>
> Hang in there, decide if you want to continue and build your project or
> would you rather have a Piet. Either one is a GREAT accomplishment.
>
> Best, Bert (whose presently building a non-flying garden house for his
mom)
> It IS the journey.....
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: crazy or not?
>
>
>
> >
> > Robert,
> > I think alot is to be said about being in love with a project. Sounds
> > corney but I think it's true. You have to be in love with what you are
> > doing to ratialized all the hours that one spends on it. If you have
to
> > create excuses to go and work on your plane ,,,then you're in love with
> it.
> > If you find it a chore,,,then it's time to quit that one.
> > Lifes too short to waste three years to complete something that your
heart
> > isn't into. If the workmanship is ok, then put the work you've done on
> Ebay
> > and sell it to a Pober builder. If you're not ok with that, save the
> spars
> > and cut the ribs, and use the mat'l on the short criss/cross rib pieces
of
> > the Piet.
> > I think you'll be amazed, that when you decide, and take the big step,
> that
> > a big weight will come off and building will be fun again.
> > walt
> > NX140DL
> > ps. yeah, alot is to be said about taking people for rides,,,mostly the
> > kids
> > In building a project,,,,It's not the destination, but the journey!
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: crazy or not?
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Guys, I need a little emotional support here...
> > >
> > > I have been building a wooden wing airplane of another design and have
> > about
> > > 100 hours into it. It has been an on and off project for several
years
> > and
> > > in that time, I have gained skills and information regarding
> construction,
> > > largely due to this group. Now I look at my almost complete wing and
am
> > > unsatisfied with the result. Additionally, I wish I had started with
a
> > Piet
> > > at this point.
> > >
> > > The part I need help with is the fact that there's a lot of good
spruce
> in
> > > those spars that I'll never use. I've got the compression ribs glued
in
> > so
> > > I'll have to tear the damn thing up at this point. HELP! I feel
like
> > I've
> > > got to take Old Yeller out back and shoot him. This wing has been a
> part
> > of
> > > my life for longer than my wife and kid!
> > >
> > > Distressed,
> > >
> > > Robert Haines
> > > Du Quoin, Illinois
> > >
> > > Pietenpol plans in hand,
> > > GN-1 plans,
> > > Model-A engine in the garage,
> > > Pober Super Ace wing,
> > > stuck in the middle!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
"TWINBOOM"
Doug,
I was just in Winnipeg the other day and walked over to a museum that is on
the field. Closed for the season... Oh well. But there were a couple of
the radial engine powered CLs that you are building one of. I saw the
photos a while ago.
It is a bigger airplane than I imagined, both yours and the real ones.
I think you are getting some instruments mixed up. The turn and bank
indicator is also known as a needle and ball. It is round and fits in a
3.125" hole in the dash and needs a suction source to operate the gyro. The
needle is gyro driven and displaces to one side or the other based on rate
of turn info as provided by the gyro... It is almost 99.9999% used in
conjucnction with a built into the instrument inclinometer. This is the
curved tube that has the curve facing down. It has a ball that is in some
unfreezable fluid. It has two lubber lines set at the bottom, one to either
side of the ball.
I have the turn and banks and not the inclinometers by themselves. The
inclinometer is probably the most important instrument you have in a ship
like the piet. It is used to maintain coordination between the rudder and
the aileron control displacements. It is not required by FAR but I highly
recommend at least one in the middle of the panel up high where you can
glance at it when on approach.
I agreee that one should be in each cockpit. They wiegh a few ounces.
You can make a Johnson style airspeed as used on the Jenny. It is mounted
out on the struts and is a wire and spring arrangement with a paddle on the
end. As you go faster, the paddle moves back due to the wind and the wire
sits over a set of calibrated numbers so you can read the airspeed. Imagine
a nose gear for RC with a 2 by 2 plate instead of a tire. As you fly the
nose gear would displace back due to the coil spring wound into the gear.
Get it?
I propose we shift emphasis over to a mechanical tach and an altimeter and
the rebuildable compass. The tach will be determined by the engine you wind
up with as some turn one way and some turn the other. The usual is a CW
rotation but the A-65 used the CCW rotation. I do not know about the
corvair. Some use electric senders but this might not work if you have no
electrical system.
I think we are a little early on this stuff so why don't we wait til you
have a better idea about what will equip the Blackburn Special.
You need the following per FAR:
Altimeter
Airspeed
Compass
Oil Temp (air cooled engines) or coolant temp (water cooled engines)
Tachometer
Oil Pressure
Hope this helps.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: TWINBOOM [mailto:TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com]
Subject: Re: R/C Stuff
Chris,
I was thinking the T & B was the little deal with the ball that tells
you if your using enough rudder. As you have said earlier, it sounds as if
the T&B and compass would be the better deal. If wieght is that much of a
penalty, I guess I will go as light as possible so the plane flies nicer. I
guess the passengers can ask a million questions after they're flight.
Thanks for the advice. The compass you spoke of, are the rebuild parts hard
to find? Seems to me if there is a rebuild kit, it must be a nice one. I
guess I'll go with the original deal.
I just looked on ACS at Turn and Banks. I was thinking you were sending
one of the little ones that mount to the surface of the dash. I'm not
getting wierd on you so don't think that. In other Piets, I have seeen just
the basic tube with a left and right dot on either side. They should not
wiegh so much as one with its own electric lights ect. What do you think? I
always have a bunch of questions since this is my first project. I am
learning from folks like you and Mike Cuy, John Dilatush in Co. ect. Thanks
for your paitience. Hope you have a great time with the radios and the kids.
It has been a great thing for me, and know you will enjoy your time with
your kids. Take Care,
Doug
P.S. Did I ever send you a picture of the SuperScooper CL-415 I am building
for tis years contest? Let me know and I will include it if you have not
seen it.
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
ArrowBear Lake Ca.
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: TWINBOOM
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 7:32 AM
Subject: RE: R/C Stuff
Yes, weight is a big issue. A pound here and there adds up in a hurry. I
would recommend adding nothing extra.
Whenever I order from ACS I alsways add a bargain bag of spruce or two to
the order as well as the bargain bag of steel tubing. Lots of sizes to
practice welding with and generally good to have lying around. I believe
Mike Cuy built his ship from four spars, four longerons, plywood and a bunch
of bargain bags of spruce
No shelf life on the instruments unless they go tits up.
T and B might wiegh two lbs.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: TWINBOOM [mailto:TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 8:35 AM
To: Christian Bobka
Subject: Re: R/C Stuff
So Chris,
Are instruments a big factor when it comes to wieght? How much to T &
B's wiegh. This is all new to me so your input is greatly appreciated. I
thought it would be nice for the passenger to understand what is going on.
If the wieght penalty is to unforgiving, I will not do so. I think I still
would like the matching T&B's though. That could'nt wiegh too much. Also,
where is a good place to start getting instruments that look the same. A
silly question, but do they have a shelf life?
The shoulder is doing most excellent. They would not give me any more
PT due to HMO hoopala, but I have continued stretching ect, and it seems to
have returned to about 95%? The F6F-5 Heelcats T&B's would be a cool
coversation place in the plane.
What do you think about the grab bags of wood fro Aircraft Spruce.
Corona and AS is only about two mikles from my good buddies home down the
hill. Thansk Chris,
Doug
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
ArrowBear Lake Ca.
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: TWINBOOM
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 9:50 PM
Subject: RE: R/C Stuff
Thanks, Doug. I will look for the box. Two Turn and banks it is.
Unless you want a just one t&b and a leaky compass of the airpath variety
that you can buy the repair kit in tradeaplane or ACS. It will need new
glass which you can buy too.
I should have some freshly removed from two Grumman F6F-5 Hellcats that
have matching part numbers and radium dials.
How is the shoulder.
Keeping the wieght down on any airplane is most important. Always keep
this in mind.
chris
-----Original Message-----
From: TWINBOOM [mailto:TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 11:04 PM
To: Christian Bobka
Subject: R/C Stuff
Chris,
I have been getting the house ready to go on the market. Busy busy
busy!! Anyway, boxed up the six channel Futaba radio, the older four channel
radio to use as a trainer, one charger, two neck straps, and two servo trays
I found in a box under the bench. These should keep you going for a while at
least until you decided if you want to get back into the sport in a bigger
way. The six channel is an excellent radio. It does not have the
capabilities of a newer PC style radio, but has everything you said you were
looking for. The six channel will have a receicer crystal in the battery
compartment, so you will not need to buy one when you get a "flight pack".
The charger will charge all Futaba radios that are current, as well as the
receiver batteries. The neck straps are the standard Futaba types. The racks
will work with quite a few different servos. The manual will be in the
envelope taped to the top of the shipping box with you address on it. Be
carefull not to cut the envelope with your box cutter when opening the box.
As we discussed earlier via e-mail exchanges, A compass and a turn
and bank indicator will do as trade if you think that is worth it. It would
be nice to have two turn and banks that look the same I suppose instead of
the compass. Whatever you think is fair. I want to install a couple of
instruments in the passenger cockpit so they have a "feel" for the plane. A
"T & B" would be two of them. I've seeen Piets that obviuosly have different
instrument MGF's in they're panels. I would like mine to be all the same MFG
when I get to that point so it does not look like they were dug out of the
heap so to speak. Can you suggest a good brand or supplier or both? I'm
rambling. Let me know what you feel is fair when you get the radios. It's
not a big deal to me, the radios have not been used insome time. I have only
used the six channel once. They will be going out tommorrow. The four
channel has no antenna, or battery, as it runs through the primary radio. If
it becomes a problem for any reason, let me know and I will find
replacements for both. A past member in our club used his this way in the
past and said it worked out fine. Take Care,
Doug B.
P.S. A couple of links that may interest you,
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p.pgm?Q=1&I=LXH466&P=M
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p.pgm?Q=1&I=LXXJ51&P=7
The first is the trainer cord. The second I'm pretty sure is the proper
"Flight Pack", but ask to be sure. Have fun!
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
ArrowBear Lake Ca.
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mikebell(at)sc.rr.com> |
Just want to add one more suggestion to the excellent ideas and
encouragement already offered.
If the Pober wing was built with epoxy, then a heat gun should help you in
disassembly. I haven't tried this, but I know that you can separate epoxied
parts by heating them in your kitchen oven. A heat gun for removing paint
will probably produce a lot more heat than a hobby one.
Mike Bell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Bell
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 5:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pober wing
Just want to add one more suggestion to the excellent ideas and
encouragement already offered.
If the Pober wing was built with epoxy, then a heat gun should help
you in
disassembly. I haven't tried this, but I know that you can separate
epoxied
parts by heating them in your kitchen oven. A heat gun for removing
paint
will probably produce a lot more heat than a hobby one.
Mike Bell
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yep, that works. I have used it often on a Fischer H-1 project.
A heat gun at 300 deg will do the trick.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
Robert.. You certainly know how to get a response from this group. They were
all good,I especially like those from Walt Evans and Bert Conoly. If you
decide to go with a Piet you should have no trouble making good use of the
spars if you salvage them as suggested. I got my spars from an old friend who
rebuilds Stearmans. When they arrived, they were strapped to what I thought
was scrap lumber. I was shocked to find that the 'scrap' was in fact old
Stearman spars!! After carefully ripping out the bolt holes and some light
planing I ended up with enough beautiful wood to build my entire empennage.
Now I'll also have nostalgia riding with me in the Piet, as my very first
airplane, bought surplus in 1946 was...a Stearman!! Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Great story Don,
Nice to get a "find" like that. Kind of puts a soul in your Piet.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: <DonanClara(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Goin' Crazy
>
> . I was shocked to find that the 'scrap' was in fact old
> Stearman spars!! After carefully ripping out the bolt holes and some light
> planing I ended up with enough beautiful wood to build my entire
empennage.
> Now I'll also have nostalgia riding with me in the Piet, as my very first
> airplane, bought surplus in 1946 was...a Stearman!! Don Hicks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
This may or may not interest the list but since completing a little task I
feel pretty good.
Went to Lucein Field this am to scrounge some AN stuff and while there I
found this ooooooooold altimeter on the back of a shelve that had not been
used or seen for decades. One adjusting knob, one needle, one face with
numbers 0 to 20 in 50 ft increments. All numbers are even 0 2 4 etc thru 18.
As we were always told NOT to mess with instruments as that was reserved for
those idiots in the rear area, I wanted to try out my new set of jeweler
screw drivers I began operating to only find that one would have to be a low-
iqed idiot not to be able to complete this surgery.
The indicating numbers revolve around a center of about an inch or so and is
rotated by a knob at the bottom of the face which moves the altimeter face
card right or left I suppose to give the pilot a 0 reading. If this
instrument has a range of 0 to 2000 ft it should be perfect for a Piet in the
south. It was mfg by Aeromarine Instruments, Bronx, N Y Type 52.
Is this a common instrument from days gone by or is it something rare?
Corky in La fitting his Port side cowling to nose piece today
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
Corky
It is a non sensitive altimeter (kind of like the non sensitive relative
that got married Brodhead weekend last year).
It most likely reads in 500 foot increments with the digits standing for
thousands of feet. Ok to use as long as it works. They are still common.
Do I need to come down and buy out a bunch of mr harvey's stuff?
Chris Bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Altimeter
Pieters,
This may or may not interest the list but since completing a little task I
feel pretty good.
Went to Lucein Field this am to scrounge some AN stuff and while there I
found this ooooooooold altimeter on the back of a shelve that had not been
used or seen for decades. One adjusting knob, one needle, one face with
numbers 0 to 20 in 50 ft increments. All numbers are even 0 2 4 etc thru 18.
As we were always told NOT to mess with instruments as that was reserved for
those idiots in the rear area, I wanted to try out my new set of jeweler
screw drivers I began operating to only find that one would have to be a
low-
iqed idiot not to be able to complete this surgery.
The indicating numbers revolve around a center of about an inch or so and is
rotated by a knob at the bottom of the face which moves the altimeter face
card right or left I suppose to give the pilot a 0 reading. If this
instrument has a range of 0 to 2000 ft it should be perfect for a Piet in
the
south. It was mfg by Aeromarine Instruments, Bronx, N Y Type 52.
Is this a common instrument from days gone by or is it something rare?
Corky in La fitting his Port side cowling to nose piece today
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
Corkies find got me started on this again..
I've been looking for antique gauges as well. Check out
http://www.stewartwarner.com/PastFeatures/wingkits.html
They've got Oil pressure, Oil temp, Water temp and Tachometer. The Oil
pressure and others are available in a mechanical gauge, but the oil
temp and tach are electric.
Question: How scary is the use of an electric tach? I've used them for
years in cars without incident. If there is a potential problem with
them going bad, could you not just rig a switch to take it out of the
circuit?
This stuff is affordable and looks like 1927. I hope to find I can use
them.
Also, after looking at one famous Piet, I'm also thinking of trying to
rig an old pocket watch on a chain as a turn and bank indicator.
Letting the watch swivel in a brass cage might make an instrument with
two functions and look pretty classy, but I guess I'll have to test this
to see if it would work.
What do you guys think?
Larry
Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>Pieters,
>This may or may not interest the list but since completing a little task I
>feel pretty good.
>Went to Lucein Field this am to scrounge some AN stuff and while there I
>found this ooooooooold altimeter on the back of a shelve that had not been
>used or seen for decades. One adjusting knob, one needle, one face with
>numbers 0 to 20 in 50 ft increments. All numbers are even 0 2 4 etc thru 18.
>As we were always told NOT to mess with instruments as that was reserved for
>those idiots in the rear area, I wanted to try out my new set of jeweler
>screw drivers I began operating to only find that one would have to be a low-
>iqed idiot not to be able to complete this surgery.
>The indicating numbers revolve around a center of about an inch or so and is
>rotated by a knob at the bottom of the face which moves the altimeter face
>card right or left I suppose to give the pilot a 0 reading. If this
>instrument has a range of 0 to 2000 ft it should be perfect for a Piet in the
>south. It was mfg by Aeromarine Instruments, Bronx, N Y Type 52.
>Is this a common instrument from days gone by or is it something rare?
>Corky in La fitting his Port side cowling to nose piece today
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Chris,
Haven't heard from you lately, thought maybe you might have loaded your Piet
with ping pong balls and flown over the pond somewhere.
Mr. Harvey has a lot of stuff and is anxious to realize what he can for it.
Several engines, 235, O-200's and MUCH Cessna 150-2 stuff Wreck and salvage.
Landing gears, axles, wheels and brakes. Lots of AN bolts and nuts and too
numerous to mention. A guy could spend several days going through his junk
and realize a big savings on his Piet stuff. I even bought a NEW Aero Trainer
6:00-6 tire for five bucks.
If you need anything I would advise you yankees to load up a plane and come
down and get you some goodies. We will treat you like southerners.
He has his lease until mid 2005.
Corky in La where I will never fly my Piet to 20000 to test this altimeter.
Sensitive or not
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Corky,
Seen hide nor hair of an impulse mag for a A-65? Right now got two
standard mags but they kick like a mule when starting.
Let me know if anythings down there.
thanks
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Altimeter
>
> Chris,
> Haven't heard from you lately, thought maybe you might have loaded your
Piet
> with ping pong balls and flown over the pond somewhere.
> Mr. Harvey has a lot of stuff and is anxious to realize what he can for
it.
> Several engines, 235, O-200's and MUCH Cessna 150-2 stuff Wreck and
salvage.
> Landing gears, axles, wheels and brakes. Lots of AN bolts and nuts and too
> numerous to mention. A guy could spend several days going through his junk
> and realize a big savings on his Piet stuff. I even bought a NEW Aero
Trainer
> 6:00-6 tire for five bucks.
> If you need anything I would advise you yankees to load up a plane and
come
> down and get you some goodies. We will treat you like southerners.
> He has his lease until mid 2005.
> Corky in La where I will never fly my Piet to 20000 to test this
altimeter.
> Sensitive or not
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Walt,
He has little or nothing for A-65s. I've seen several Stromberg carb bodies
but thats all. I'll check in his back shed where he has alot of mags (parts)
but I think they are for larger engines.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Hey yall
I thought it was about time to post a reminder that the Wood Forum tent
at Sun n Fun has in the past been sort of Piet central for meeting
others on the list. Bert runs a great show down there. I have been
pre-cutting wood and will be atempting to build a complete long Piet
fuselage at the show. We will also be running Mike Cuy's excellent
video all week.
Is your address still the same for ordering copies Mike?
Did I miss anything Bert?
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Doug
Hi friends
If you need the wing ribs cad drawings i can e-mail
you, i make my wing rib jig ,just plotter the file,
glue it to a 3/4 good plywood and put little pieces of
wood where the strips need it.
On the other hand, any Piet or project near to Los
Angeles ?..i will go there the next week and i would
like to see..
Thanks
Javier Cruz
Saludos de Mexico
http://greetings.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
I'll just add that several of our Piet Buds will be on site for most of the
week. In addition to Dick whose driving all the way from frosty Minnesota
to Fla with a 16 foot trailer in tow to bring the Piet jig and materials,
there will be several other regulars . Don Hicks, Skipp Gadd, and Charlie
Rubeck will be there in the wood shop. regulars - Bill Cameron, Allen
Crowe, Art Luther, Art Waszak, Gene Arnold, Mike Hattaway and Jim
Scroggins. Also our Friend Doc Mosher as well as Ted Brousseau will check
in for a visit. Larry Harrison (Poplar Piet, Le Baron , and now a Boredom
fighter) always comes by for a visit. I THINK I heard that William Wynn will
be involved in the engine workshops. Many other Piet Folk come by during
the week.
Of course this is not a Pietenpol workshoip, it's actually a workshop run by
volunteers to demonstrate woodworking techniques for our visitors and for
other builders. But since the Piet is THE Quintessential example of the
perfect wood plane - we just cant help it....
Everybody's invited - of course we always appreciate volunteers.
Please stop by and introduce yourselves.
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: sun n fun
>
> Hey yall
> I thought it was about time to post a reminder that the Wood Forum tent
> at Sun n Fun has in the past been sort of Piet central for meeting
> others on the list. Bert runs a great show down there. I have been
> pre-cutting wood and will be atempting to build a complete long Piet
> fuselage at the show. We will also be running Mike Cuy's excellent
> video all week.
> Is your address still the same for ordering copies Mike?
>
> Did I miss anything Bert?
>
> Dick Navratil
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
Eisman mags from old Case farm tractors with impulse coupling will fit on
the A-65, if you can stand a slight weight penalty and don't mind running
unshielded wiring.
John Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of walter
evans
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Altimeter
Corky,
Seen hide nor hair of an impulse mag for a A-65? Right now got two
standard mags but they kick like a mule when starting.
Let me know if anythings down there.
thanks
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Altimeter
>
> Chris,
> Haven't heard from you lately, thought maybe you might have loaded your
Piet
> with ping pong balls and flown over the pond somewhere.
> Mr. Harvey has a lot of stuff and is anxious to realize what he can for
it.
> Several engines, 235, O-200's and MUCH Cessna 150-2 stuff Wreck and
salvage.
> Landing gears, axles, wheels and brakes. Lots of AN bolts and nuts and too
> numerous to mention. A guy could spend several days going through his junk
> and realize a big savings on his Piet stuff. I even bought a NEW Aero
Trainer
> 6:00-6 tire for five bucks.
> If you need anything I would advise you yankees to load up a plane and
come
> down and get you some goodies. We will treat you like southerners.
> He has his lease until mid 2005.
> Corky in La where I will never fly my Piet to 20000 to test this
altimeter.
> Sensitive or not
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Corky,
Thanks,
I'd really appreciate it.
walt
weather's FINALLY breaking up near the big apple
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Altimeter
>
> Walt,
> He has little or nothing for A-65s. I've seen several Stromberg carb
bodies
> but thats all. I'll check in his back shed where he has alot of mags
(parts)
> but I think they are for larger engines.
> Corky in La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
John,
REALLY, Hmmmm, have to check it out.
thanks,
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Altimeter
>
> Eisman mags from old Case farm tractors with impulse coupling will fit on
> the A-65, if you can stand a slight weight penalty and don't mind running
> unshielded wiring.
> John Mc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of walter
> evans
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Altimeter
>
>
>
>
> Corky,
> Seen hide nor hair of an impulse mag for a A-65? Right now got two
> standard mags but they kick like a mule when starting.
> Let me know if anythings down there.
> thanks
> walt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Altimeter
>
>
> >
> > Chris,
> > Haven't heard from you lately, thought maybe you might have loaded your
> Piet
> > with ping pong balls and flown over the pond somewhere.
> > Mr. Harvey has a lot of stuff and is anxious to realize what he can for
> it.
> > Several engines, 235, O-200's and MUCH Cessna 150-2 stuff Wreck and
> salvage.
> > Landing gears, axles, wheels and brakes. Lots of AN bolts and nuts and
too
> > numerous to mention. A guy could spend several days going through his
junk
> > and realize a big savings on his Piet stuff. I even bought a NEW Aero
> Trainer
> > 6:00-6 tire for five bucks.
> > If you need anything I would advise you yankees to load up a plane and
> come
> > down and get you some goodies. We will treat you like southerners.
> > He has his lease until mid 2005.
> > Corky in La where I will never fly my Piet to 20000 to test this
> altimeter.
> > Sensitive or not
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
>
>
>Eisman mags from old Case farm tractors with impulse coupling will fit on
>the A-65, if you can stand a slight weight penalty and don't mind running
>unshielded wiring.
>John Mc
>
If Eisman's fit then the Case mags also probably fit. I have Case
mags on my Taylorcraft. One of them has an impulse coupler and it
does make a big difference. The thing is a bear to hot start on
both mags but real easy on left only. I don't get all that much
noise in the handheld.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
Retsof, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
I've got Eisemann mags on my A-65 (with impulse coupling). They are HEAVY.
The two mags with drive gears weigh just over 11 lbs. If I can afford it
when I'm rebuilding the engine I will swap them for Slick mags, and
hopefully sell the Eisemanns. I don't know if the drive gears from a
tractor would fit a Continental (I doubt it).
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave and
Connie
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Altimeter
>
>
>Eisman mags from old Case farm tractors with impulse coupling will fit on
>the A-65, if you can stand a slight weight penalty and don't mind running
>unshielded wiring.
>John Mc
>
If Eisman's fit then the Case mags also probably fit. I have Case
mags on my Taylorcraft. One of them has an impulse coupler and it
does make a big difference. The thing is a bear to hot start on
both mags but real easy on left only. I don't get all that much
noise in the handheld.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
Retsof, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: crazy or not? |
Beforre you go crazy and tear it apart get some other people to look and
then decide what to do. We are usually most critical of out own work. We
just see the bad parts. Ken in sunny Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Eisemann, Bendix, Case and Slick magnetos... |
Jack and others,
While the new Slick magnetos are compact and light in
weight, the Eisemann AM 4 (unshielded) magnetos are
still pretty good in this respect. The Eisemann LA 4 is the
shielded version and is bigger and heavier. Both are ex-
cellent mags, but some parts can be a bit difficult to find.
The heaviest mags (for the Continental) that I have used
are the Bendix-Scintilla SF4 "box mags". They are big
and heavy; but are extremely reliable. Unfortunately, they
are direct drive only and don't have impulse couplings.
Like the Eisemann, some parts are difficult to find.
The Bendix S4 magneto is moderately compact compared
to the SF4 and quite a bit lighter in weight. There are a lot
of these around but they are subject to several airworthiness
directives. If your engine has been out of service for years
and has these mags, the AD situation needs to be checked
out. Reliability and safety depend on AD compliance. Re-
placement parts are available, but they are expensive. It is
sometimes less expensive to trade them in on new Slicks---
which I have done---than trying to bring them "up to snuff".
Nevertheless, the S4 is a high quality item and can have ei-
ther direct or impulse drive. It is a shielded magneto.
The Case magneto was original equipment on many post-
war lightplanes powered by the A 65 Continental. I flew be-
hind them for lots of hours and never had much trouble with
them. They are unshielded and, as such, were often repla-
ced by shielded units. They can have either direct or impulse
drive. I don't know what the parts situation is like today, but
some parts were the same as those used on tractors mags.
Typically, only the left magneto (when viewed from the rear
of the A 65 engine) will have the impulse drive and it fires
the lower spark plugs of each cylinder. Start on the left mag
only because the impulse coupling will retard the ignition tim-
ing to about TDC and provide a strong spark at that point.
Without the impulse drive, the ignition advance is 30 degrees
BTC, guaranteeing "kickback"---especially with a hot engine.
As an experienced "armstrong" starter, I highly recommend
the impulse magneto drive. Less timid (and stronger) souls
can whip a metal propeller through compression so that the
inertia of the prop overcomes kickback with only direct drive
mags installed. With the lighter wooden propeller, this tech-
nique becomes much less effective and most Pietenpols will,
I think, have wooden propellers.
Summing up, the Slick magneto is currently in production and
the rest are becoming, or are, antiques. Nevertheless, if one
has a set of these old mags and a source of parts, they can
still give good service. The cost of refurbishing an old magneto
has to be balanced against buying a new Slick magneto, and
sometimes this will be the only way to go.
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Eisemann, Bendix, Case and Slick magnetos... |
-----Original Message-----
<grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Jack and others,
While the new Slick magnetos are compact and light in
weight, the Eisemann AM 4 (unshielded) magnetos are
still pretty good in this respect. The Eisemann LA 4 is the
shielded version and is bigger and heavier. Both are ex-
cellent mags, but some parts can be a bit difficult to find ...
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
Graham,
Excellent advice, as usual. The Eisemann's I have are the unshielded AM-4's
and they still weigh over eleven pounds for the pair. I'd hate to see a
heavier magneto.
Due to the lack of shielding and the fact that the airspace where I fly is
about to become Class B, I'll probably have to replace them with Slicks. I
just hope the Slick Magnetos that fit an A65 come complete with the drive
gears. Those gears are EXPENSIVE - they cost nearly as much as the mags.
I had Eisemann AM-4's on the J-3 Cub I had several years ago (late 1970's)
and even then parts were hard to find for them.
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Eisemann, Bendix, Case and Slick magnetos... |
No, Jack, the drive gears are in addition.
Chris - still tracking down the rest of the story on the crankcase cam
repair
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Eisemann, Bendix, Case and Slick
magnetos...
-----Original Message-----
<grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Jack and others,
While the new Slick magnetos are compact and light in
weight, the Eisemann AM 4 (unshielded) magnetos are
still pretty good in this respect. The Eisemann LA 4 is the
shielded version and is bigger and heavier. Both are ex-
cellent mags, but some parts can be a bit difficult to find ...
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
Graham,
Excellent advice, as usual. The Eisemann's I have are the unshielded AM-4's
and they still weigh over eleven pounds for the pair. I'd hate to see a
heavier magneto.
Due to the lack of shielding and the fact that the airspace where I fly is
about to become Class B, I'll probably have to replace them with Slicks. I
just hope the Slick Magnetos that fit an A65 come complete with the drive
gears. Those gears are EXPENSIVE - they cost nearly as much as the mags.
I had Eisemann AM-4's on the J-3 Cub I had several years ago (late 1970's)
and even then parts were hard to find for them.
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Keep me in mind for a mag |
With all this talk about mags, I'm still looking for a left mag, impulse
type for a A65. If anyone is going to upgrade, please let me know.
thanks
walt
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <markmc(at)bluebonnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Keep me in mind for a mag |
Is anyone interested in a complete c-85 with 200 hrs smoh Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Keep me in mind for a mag
>
> With all this talk about mags, I'm still looking for a left mag, impulse
> type for a A65. If anyone is going to upgrade, please let me know.
> thanks
> walt
> NX140DL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KenGailGriff" <kengg(at)texas.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Keep me in mind for a mag |
Can anyone give me a ballpark on two Slick mags? I'm trying to decide
between a runout A-65 and a Corvair. I haven't unbuttoned the A-65 so I
can't estimate the expense of a rebuild completely, but I do know that it
needs new mags.
Thanks
Ken, rebuilding old windows here in Austin when I'd rather be putting my
fuse sides together.
----- Original Message -----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Keep me in mind for a mag
>
> With all this talk about mags, I'm still looking for a left mag, impulse
> type for a A65. If anyone is going to upgrade, please let me know.
> thanks
> walt
> NX140DL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Forum at Sun 'n' Fun |
There was no Pietenpol Forum scheduled at Sun 'N' Fun. Some quick action
by Harry Hooper got a Forum spot on Monday morning,
April 8, at 10 am in Tent #2.
I have advised Harry that I will bring several notebooks of photos, which
should be of interest to some of the folks. I will probably leave my
notebooks with Bert Conoly and his happy group in the Woodworking tent for
a few days, as that seems to be a touchpoint for all of us. In addition,
if I have five minutes at the Forum, I will hand out a list of interesting
websites, including this one. I suggest that any of you who have a Piet
website (or know of a good one) send me the address. Then I can list it,
perhaps along with a few sample pages I can download. In addition, I can
answer a few questions on the British Pietenpols, and their built-up spars,
which are lighter and perhaps stronger than our own spruce planks.
Harry is to be complimented on his stepping up to make sure the Forum is on
the listing. He can use any help any of you guys can come up with. If
some of you who are such a help on the List simply get in touch with Harry
to offer your help (and maybe present five or ten minutes of the Forum)
Harry would not have to carry the whole show.
Personally, I look forward to the Piet Forum this year simply to meet again
(or for the first time) all you Piet'rs that are already on the
List. Sure, we all enjoy the technical stuff, but the Forum may convey the
fun that Piets bring into our lives. Maybe one night we can even have
dinner together (or even a noon lunch?). Anyway the Woodworking tent is
always the place to check in!
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eisemann, Bendix, Case and Slick magnetos... |
Graham, or anyone, a question about the 'Eisemann (unshielded) magnetos'.
I just bought a Flybaby with an A-65 with those mags. You can see the wire
thru the
insulation. (something to fly while building the Piet)
1. How bad is the noise if using a heldheld radio that's not connected to
anything?
2. If bad, can it be shielded? Can just the wires and plug be shielded or
does the
case need it too? I haven't flown it yet and don't know if there's any
noise yet.
Thanks guys, timing couldn't be better.
George Allen
Harrisburg, PA
GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
(Peitenpol builder)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
> Jack and others,
>
> While the new Slick magnetos are compact and light in
> weight, the Eisemann AM 4 (unshielded) magnetos are
> still pretty good in this respect. The Eisemann LA 4 is the
> shielded version and is bigger and heavier.
> Typically, only the left magneto (when viewed from the rear
> of the A 65 engine) will have the impulse drive and it fires
> the lower spark plugs of each cylinder. Start on the left mag
> only because the impulse coupling will retard the ignition tim-
> ing to about TDC and provide a strong spark at that point.
> Without the impulse drive, the ignition advance is 30 degrees
> Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Forum at Sun 'n' Fun |
Ditto Doc!
As usual, thanks for stepping up and going that extra mile for us Piet'rs.
I'll be glad to look after your notebooks and/or photos at the wood shop.
We can un-officially, in lieu of a better one, let the wood shop be "Piet
Central" this year if you guys want to. We can definitly plan a lunch,
dinner, or even cookout in the campground..
I'd be interested in who's coming to sun n fun. Maybe a roll call is in
order?
Doc, if you want, e-mail me off list to discuss the forum - I have an idea
or two..
Bert (who hopes the group had a great easter weekend - he did)
bconoly(at)earthlink.net
bconoly(at)wrsie.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc Mosher" <docshop(at)tds.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Forum at Sun 'n' Fun
>
> There was no Pietenpol Forum scheduled at Sun 'N' Fun. Some quick action
> by Harry Hooper got a Forum spot on Monday morning,
> April 8, at 10 am in Tent #2.
>
> I have advised Harry that I will bring several notebooks of photos, which
> should be of interest to some of the folks. I will probably leave my
> notebooks with Bert Conoly and his happy group in the Woodworking tent for
> a few days, as that seems to be a touchpoint for all of us. In addition,
> if I have five minutes at the Forum, I will hand out a list of interesting
> websites, including this one. I suggest that any of you who have a Piet
> website (or know of a good one) send me the address. Then I can list it,
> perhaps along with a few sample pages I can download. In addition, I can
> answer a few questions on the British Pietenpols, and their built-up
spars,
> which are lighter and perhaps stronger than our own spruce planks.
>
> Harry is to be complimented on his stepping up to make sure the Forum is
on
> the listing. He can use any help any of you guys can come up with. If
> some of you who are such a help on the List simply get in touch with Harry
> to offer your help (and maybe present five or ten minutes of the Forum)
> Harry would not have to carry the whole show.
>
> Personally, I look forward to the Piet Forum this year simply to meet
again
> (or for the first time) all you Piet'rs that are already on the
> List. Sure, we all enjoy the technical stuff, but the Forum may convey
the
> fun that Piets bring into our lives. Maybe one night we can even have
> dinner together (or even a noon lunch?). Anyway the Woodworking tent is
> always the place to check in!
>
> Doc Mosher
> Oshkosh USA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol forum at Sun'n' Fun not on present list |
Doc,
I will be there all week. I would volunteer to be one of those helping make
a presentation. I agree with you that there is going to be a lot of talent
around SnF to share their knowledge. I have attended several of Bill's
presentations. Basically he gives an intro of the Piet and then he just
answers questions. The questions are usually easy from people who are not
building but are interested.
Ted Brousseau
Naples, FL
1 GN-1; 1/2 Pietenpol
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc Mosher" <docshop(at)tds.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol forum at Sun'n' Fun not on present list
>
> I have reviewed the list of forums that are slated for presentation at Sun
> 'n' Fun and do not find anything about the Pietenpol. I have contacted
> chiefpilot1946(at)cs.com with the following:
>
> "I have just been alerted to the fact that a Pietenpol forum is not on the
> schedule at SnF.
>
> This has always been a well attended forum in the past. With over 400
> Pietenpols registered in the US, and more being built every day, it would
> seem that a forum on the Piet would be in order. In the past, Bill Rewey
> of Verona WI was the presenter. I will contact Bill today. However, if
he
> cannot be available, I'm sure that we can have several other knowledgeable
> people to present the subject."
>
> So, Piet'rs, if you want a forum, get in touch with chiefpilot1946(at)cs.com
> and say so!
> We've got some great people in this group who could easily make a
> presentation. In fact, it would be nice to have a number of guys to
> present 5 minutes each on some particular part of the forum. That way, we
> could all meet each other and really get acquainted. Any takers or
> suggestions?
>
> Doc Mosher
> Oshkosh USA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Eisemann, Bendix, Case and Slick magnetos... |
George Allen and Jack Phillips (and others),
TO GEORGE: I have managed to use a handheld radio in several
aircraft without shielded ignition, but had to turn up the squelch
quite a bit to eliminate the noise. This, in turn, affected my recep-
tion. When I went from unshielded to the shielded Slick system
in my Wag-A-Bond, I couldn't believe the difference it made. I can
now hear people at least 100 miles away. Before the change the
range was only about 35 - 40 miles. Some folks have good results
with the unshielded system and the only way to find out is to try your
handheld with it. You may be lucky.
I can't comment on adding shielding to an unshielded system, al-
though some people have done it. I have never tried it because it
seemed like a lot of trouble.
TO JACK: Chris is right. Generally the gears have to be obtained
separately when you get a new set of mags. I had to use the gears
from my old Bendix S4's when I traded them in on new Slicks for the
C 85 -12 in my Pietenpol about three years ago.
BUT I bought a pair of Slicks and harness for my Wag-A-Bond's
A-65 about 7 years ago and they both had impulse couplings AND
gears supplied! (I dealt with Mattituck in New York who used to ad-
vertise these kits in SPORT AVIATION and elsewhere.)
[ I JUST NOW CHECKED WITH MY FRIEND WHO BOUGHT A
SLICK KIT FOR AN A-65 FROM MATTITUCK 3 OR 4 YEARS AGO
AND HIS ALSO CAME COMPLETE WITH GEARS AND IMPULSE
COUPLINGS!]
So it seems that Slicks for the A-65 - 8 had gears supplied and Slicks
for the C85 - 12 did not. Phone Mattituck to see if this deal through
Unison (the manufacturer) is still in force. Their phone number was:
1-888-655-7278
Graham Hansen (in Alberta, Canada, where winter won't let go.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
If anyone needs a SF-4 mag, I have one that I am planning on bring to
Sun n Fun to try to sell. It will have a price of $60 in the Fly
market.
From my past experience the Fly market is much better at SNF than at
Oshgosh.
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Dick,
Please describe the SF-4 mag for me.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
>
> If anyone needs a SF-4 mag, I have one that I am planning on bring to
> Sun n Fun to try to sell. It will have a price of $60 in the Fly
> market.
> From my past experience the Fly market is much better at SNF than at
> Oshgosh.
> Dick Navratil
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Eisemann, Bendix, Case and Slick magnetos... |
Thanks again, Graham.
I'll call Mattituck. I have earlier e-mailed Unison directly to ask if the
mags for an A65-8 came with the gears or not, and I never got a response
from them. There are a bewildering number of kits available, including
exchange kits where you send in your old mags for new Slicks, so I'm
thoroughly confused at this point. If I can replace the Eisemanns with
Slicks for under a thousand bucks, I'll do it. Otherwise, I'll just rebuild
the Eisemanns and use them until Raleigh goes to Class B.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
Hansen
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Eisemann, Bendix, Case and Slick magnetos...
<grhans@cable-lynx.net>
George Allen and Jack Phillips (and others),
TO GEORGE: I have managed to use a handheld radio in several
aircraft without shielded ignition, but had to turn up the squelch
quite a bit to eliminate the noise. This, in turn, affected my recep-
tion. When I went from unshielded to the shielded Slick system
in my Wag-A-Bond, I couldn't believe the difference it made. I can
now hear people at least 100 miles away. Before the change the
range was only about 35 - 40 miles. Some folks have good results
with the unshielded system and the only way to find out is to try your
handheld with it. You may be lucky.
I can't comment on adding shielding to an unshielded system, al-
though some people have done it. I have never tried it because it
seemed like a lot of trouble.
TO JACK: Chris is right. Generally the gears have to be obtained
separately when you get a new set of mags. I had to use the gears
from my old Bendix S4's when I traded them in on new Slicks for the
C 85 -12 in my Pietenpol about three years ago.
BUT I bought a pair of Slicks and harness for my Wag-A-Bond's
A-65 about 7 years ago and they both had impulse couplings AND
gears supplied! (I dealt with Mattituck in New York who used to ad-
vertise these kits in SPORT AVIATION and elsewhere.)
[ I JUST NOW CHECKED WITH MY FRIEND WHO BOUGHT A
SLICK KIT FOR AN A-65 FROM MATTITUCK 3 OR 4 YEARS AGO
AND HIS ALSO CAME COMPLETE WITH GEARS AND IMPULSE
COUPLINGS!]
So it seems that Slicks for the A-65 - 8 had gears supplied and Slicks
for the C85 - 12 did not. Phone Mattituck to see if this deal through
Unison (the manufacturer) is still in force. Their phone number was:
1-888-655-7278
Graham Hansen (in Alberta, Canada, where winter won't let go.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Forum at Sun 'n' Fun |
I will be at Sun-n-Fun, arriving this coming Friday. I will probably leave
on monday, so if there is a cookout or something, please have it on saturday
or sunday.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Conoly <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Forum at Sun 'n' Fun
>
> Ditto Doc!
>
> As usual, thanks for stepping up and going that extra mile for us
Piet'rs.
> I'll be glad to look after your notebooks and/or photos at the wood shop.
> We can un-officially, in lieu of a better one, let the wood shop be "Piet
> Central" this year if you guys want to. We can definitly plan a lunch,
> dinner, or even cookout in the campground..
>
> I'd be interested in who's coming to sun n fun. Maybe a roll call is in
> order?
>
> Doc, if you want, e-mail me off list to discuss the forum - I have an idea
> or two..
> Bert (who hopes the group had a great easter weekend - he did)
>
> bconoly(at)earthlink.net
> bconoly(at)wrsie.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doc Mosher" <docshop(at)tds.net>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Forum at Sun 'n' Fun
>
>
> >
> > There was no Pietenpol Forum scheduled at Sun 'N' Fun. Some quick
action
> > by Harry Hooper got a Forum spot on Monday morning,
> > April 8, at 10 am in Tent #2.
> >
> > I have advised Harry that I will bring several notebooks of photos,
which
> > should be of interest to some of the folks. I will probably leave my
> > notebooks with Bert Conoly and his happy group in the Woodworking tent
for
> > a few days, as that seems to be a touchpoint for all of us. In
addition,
> > if I have five minutes at the Forum, I will hand out a list of
interesting
> > websites, including this one. I suggest that any of you who have a Piet
> > website (or know of a good one) send me the address. Then I can list
it,
> > perhaps along with a few sample pages I can download. In addition, I
can
> > answer a few questions on the British Pietenpols, and their built-up
> spars,
> > which are lighter and perhaps stronger than our own spruce planks.
> >
> > Harry is to be complimented on his stepping up to make sure the Forum is
> on
> > the listing. He can use any help any of you guys can come up with. If
> > some of you who are such a help on the List simply get in touch with
Harry
> > to offer your help (and maybe present five or ten minutes of the Forum)
> > Harry would not have to carry the whole show.
> >
> > Personally, I look forward to the Piet Forum this year simply to meet
> again
> > (or for the first time) all you Piet'rs that are already on the
> > List. Sure, we all enjoy the technical stuff, but the Forum may convey
> the
> > fun that Piets bring into our lives. Maybe one night we can even have
> > dinner together (or even a noon lunch?). Anyway the Woodworking tent is
> > always the place to check in!
> >
> > Doc Mosher
> > Oshkosh USA
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Eisemann, Bendix, Case and Slick magnetos... |
My Slick kit came without gears as the old gears fit and worked. But this
was on a 150 Franklin. I think that if your gears in an A-65 are bad, Slick
has reasonably priced replacements. The man to write to is Harry Fenton
harry(at)unisonindustries.com
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
We also support Aeroncas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Eisemann, Bendix, Case and Slick magnetos...
Thanks again, Graham.
I'll call Mattituck. I have earlier e-mailed Unison directly to ask if the
mags for an A65-8 came with the gears or not, and I never got a response
from them. There are a bewildering number of kits available, including
exchange kits where you send in your old mags for new Slicks, so I'm
thoroughly confused at this point. If I can replace the Eisemanns with
Slicks for under a thousand bucks, I'll do it. Otherwise, I'll just rebuild
the Eisemanns and use them until Raleigh goes to Class B.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
Hansen
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Eisemann, Bendix, Case and Slick
magnetos...
<grhans@cable-lynx.net>
George Allen and Jack Phillips (and others),
TO GEORGE: I have managed to use a handheld radio in several
aircraft without shielded ignition, but had to turn up the squelch
quite a bit to eliminate the noise. This, in turn, affected my recep-
tion. When I went from unshielded to the shielded Slick system
in my Wag-A-Bond, I couldn't believe the difference it made. I can
now hear people at least 100 miles away. Before the change the
range was only about 35 - 40 miles. Some folks have good results
with the unshielded system and the only way to find out is to try your
handheld with it. You may be lucky.
I can't comment on adding shielding to an unshielded system, al-
though some people have done it. I have never tried it because it
seemed like a lot of trouble.
TO JACK: Chris is right. Generally the gears have to be obtained
separately when you get a new set of mags. I had to use the gears
from my old Bendix S4's when I traded them in on new Slicks for the
C 85 -12 in my Pietenpol about three years ago.
BUT I bought a pair of Slicks and harness for my Wag-A-Bond's
A-65 about 7 years ago and they both had impulse couplings AND
gears supplied! (I dealt with Mattituck in New York who used to ad-
vertise these kits in SPORT AVIATION and elsewhere.)
[ I JUST NOW CHECKED WITH MY FRIEND WHO BOUGHT A
SLICK KIT FOR AN A-65 FROM MATTITUCK 3 OR 4 YEARS AGO
AND HIS ALSO CAME COMPLETE WITH GEARS AND IMPULSE
COUPLINGS!]
So it seems that Slicks for the A-65 - 8 had gears supplied and Slicks
for the C85 - 12 did not. Phone Mattituck to see if this deal through
Unison (the manufacturer) is still in force. Their phone number was:
1-888-655-7278
Graham Hansen (in Alberta, Canada, where winter won't let go.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Eisemann, Bendix, Case and Slick magnetos... |
>
>Graham, or anyone, a question about the 'Eisemann (unshielded) magnetos'.
>I just bought a Flybaby with an A-65 with those mags. You can see the wire
>thru the
>insulation. (something to fly while building the Piet)
>1. How bad is the noise if using a heldheld radio that's not connected to
>anything?
>2. If bad, can it be shielded? Can just the wires and plug be shielded or
>does the
> case need it too? I haven't flown it yet and don't know if there's any
>noise yet.
>
>Thanks guys, timing couldn't be better.
>
>George Allen
>Harrisburg, PA
>GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
>(Peitenpol builder)
George,
Don't know beans about magnetos, but BE SURE you read & heed Ron Wanntaja's
article on tensioning the flying wires before you take your FB up in the
air. (It was in SA or Experimenter some time in the past few months & is on
the EAA website too.)
Also, I suggest that you check his web site for tips on some other
little-known safety issues before flying.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
Thank you all for the support in my decision to start again on an aircraft
project. I makes me feel good that I'm not the only one who has been in
this predicament. I will be disassembling the wing for the wood in the
spars. What ribs I can save will make it to the shop wall to give my shop a
little character. As far as selling it to someone else, I would not feel
comfortable knowing that it's out there as I would not be comfortable flying
it myself.
And let me add one more thing... I blame this all on DJ and his beautiful
web site and excellent construction! :) Seriously, being part of this
group provides a constant pressure do a quality job and I want to thank you
all for that.
Now where's my axe?
Robert Haines
Du Quoin, Illinois
P.S. - I've pretty much settled on the standard fuselage Piet, improved
plans, Model-A powered.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: crazy or not? |
Robert the Yankee,
Sounds like me. I've put in three different brake systems, four different
aileron control systems and only the Lord knows how many times I'll have to
build this cowling until I'm satisfied.
Corky the Rebel in La whistling Dixie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patcoolnet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Tail wheel Spring |
I plan to use a model SFSA solid tail wheel or model SFS-P8A pneumatic tail
wheel both by Maul. I don't know which spring to use. Which spring are you
other Piet builders using and where do I find them?
Any and all advise would be much appreciated.
Bud in Vancouver, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail wheel Spring |
bud
I used a spring from a rear shock unit off of a honda dirt bike. Think it
was a 160cc circa 60's.
fit the dia,length, and pressure rating.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: <Patcoolnet(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel Spring
>
> I plan to use a model SFSA solid tail wheel or model SFS-P8A pneumatic
tail
> wheel both by Maul. I don't know which spring to use. Which spring are
you
> other Piet builders using and where do I find them?
>
> Any and all advise would be much appreciated.
>
> Bud in Vancouver, WA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail wheel Spring |
Hello Bud. Are you talking about the type of tailwheel that uses a single or multi
leaf spring or the type that is made up of welded tubing and has a hinged
pivot point?
Aircraft Spruce has a section in their catalog where they sell the leaf spring
type. There is a "homebuilders" special that might work for you. There are others
too. You can look there and then price shop for one.
Ken Perkins has some nice stuff he makes available too. He makes the hinge type.
From the pictures the work looks great. I have not seen one up close though.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=8
Hope this helps.
Gary McNeel, Jr.
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
www.mykitplane.com
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Patcoolnet(at)aol.com
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 14:31:58 EST
>
>I plan to use a model SFSA solid tail wheel or model SFS-P8A pneumatic tail
>wheel both by Maul. I don't know which spring to use. Which spring are you
>other Piet builders using and where do I find them?
>
>Any and all advise would be much appreciated.
>
>Bud in Vancouver, WA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | OT: but important to Yahoo users... |
I have followed this issue in my Yahoo groups discussions which I think some of
you are in.
For those of you who have a Yahoo account and *DON'T* want to get a flood of email
or postal mail you should go check your Yahoo marketing options.
1. First go to Yahoo, click on MyYahoo and login to your account.
2. Look at the top of the page and click on Account Info.
3. Once logged into managing your account, look in the Member Information section.
There is a neat, new link called Edit your marketing preferences.
4. Click on this link. Like magic there is a new section on the site to which you
have mysteriously asked them to enroll you in every marketing thing they offer.
Imagine that.
5. If you want out of this mess, select No throughout. Don't miss the ones at the
bottom of the page.
Man, are we consumers or what?
Sorry if you are not using Yahoo and this too is spam. I just thought I might save
some people a (tiny) bit of frustration.
Gary McNeel, Jr.
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
www.mykitplane.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patcoolnet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tail wheel Spring |
Thanks, Walt,
That sounds like a good source, now, to find a motorcycle junk yard in my
area....
Bud
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patcoolnet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tail wheel Spring |
Hi Gary,
I saw that in air craft spruce, but it doesn't specify what type/weight
plane. I have an email in to them to ask questions. I will also check the
website you mentioned.
Thanks!
Bud (actually daughter Pat, and I don't know if he has decided which type
spring)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail wheel Spring |
Bud,
After I saw some other posts, I realized I didn't know if you meant coil or
leaf. I did mine with the coil as per the original plans. If you're using
coil, and can't find any, I might have the other one around somewhere. Let
me know.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: <Patcoolnet(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel Spring
>
> Thanks, Walt,
>
> That sounds like a good source, now, to find a motorcycle junk yard in my
> area....
>
> Bud
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
| Subject: | Tail wheel Spring |
There was a John Deere part number for the coil spring listed a few months
ago. I don't remember what it was--should be in the archives. I found a
John Deere dealer and bought one for about $14. Fits nicely inside 1.5" ID
tubing. Just got my plane on all three wheels last weekend.
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tail wheel Spring |
Pieters,
Picked up on all this tailwheel stuff. Went out to my surplus box and found
the following: 2 leaf springs 1/4 X 1 1/4 X 14 inches. Bored at either end. 1
1/4 X 1 1/4 X9 inches bored at one end only. If anyone can use these just
whistle Dixie.
Corky in Dixieland (La)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail wheel Spring |
Like T143444?? Never found out from the JD guys what it was for originally!
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel Spring
>
> There was a John Deere part number for the coil spring listed a few months
> ago. I don't remember what it was--should be in the archives. I found a
> John Deere dealer and bought one for about $14. Fits nicely inside 1.5"
ID
> tubing. Just got my plane on all three wheels last weekend.
>
> Gene Hubbard
> San Diego
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patcoolnet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tail wheel Spring |
congratulations Gary,
You are ahead of me. I am still futzing with landing gear, brakes, etc.
Will check the archives for the part number--thanks!
Bud
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Walt
It is a SF 4 LN-8 with the drive gear. It has a great spark. I picked it
up for my plane but ended up going with a new slick system. I am trying to
get what I paid.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
>
> Dick,
> Please describe the SF-4 mag for me.
> walt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
>
>
>
> >
> > If anyone needs a SF-4 mag, I have one that I am planning on bring to
> > Sun n Fun to try to sell. It will have a price of $60 in the Fly
> > market.
> > From my past experience the Fly market is much better at SNF than at
> > Oshgosh.
> > Dick Navratil
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | my first passenger |
Well.... today my first passenger boarded my Air Camper. yup.... I was
varnishing the aft portion of my fuse this morning before leaving for work.
When I returned I noticed a medium sized black insect had landed on some
fresh varnish and gotten him/herselfself stuck.
So there it is... my first passenger.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
once again, who is going to be at SnF, and when? I will be there
Fri/Sat/Sun/Mon (am). I would like to get to meet everyone who is there.
If not at the woodworking tent, please stop by at my airplane, usually
parked on the front row of antique parking. I will attach photo, if able,
so you can find.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 04/01/2002 8:16:45 PM Central Standard Time,
rambog(at)erols.com writes:
<< once again, who is going to be at SnF, and when? I will be there
Fri/Sat/Sun/Mon (am). >>
Hi Gene,
I'll be there all of those days..also arriving Friday. Will be setting up my
tent that afternoon. Should have my white F-150 with camper shell parked
alongside...Alabama tags. Look forward to meeting you. Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Ed G.) |
I will be going to S&F for a couple days and can go any days except Mon
& Wedns
I have to work those evenings . I live 50 miles from Lakeland. Lets try
to figure out which days most Pieters are going to be there. Ed
Grentzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Dick,
Now this is an impulse mag. correct? If so, thats what I need. Let me
know and I'll contact you directly.
thanks
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
>
> Walt
> It is a SF 4 LN-8 with the drive gear. It has a great spark. I picked it
> up for my plane but ended up going with a new slick system. I am trying
to
> get what I paid.
> Dick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
>
>
>
> >
> > Dick,
> > Please describe the SF-4 mag for me.
> > walt
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > If anyone needs a SF-4 mag, I have one that I am planning on bring to
> > > Sun n Fun to try to sell. It will have a price of $60 in the Fly
> > > market.
> > > From my past experience the Fly market is much better at SNF than at
> > > Oshgosh.
> > > Dick Navratil
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
Pietrs:
I'll make an executive decision. Lets all try to hook up Sunday afternoon
at the woodshop. But I need a head count by 3:00. At least check in with me
or Don Hicks at the wood shop by 3:00 on Sunday (hope its ok with you
fellas) and lets plan an impromptu meet and greet for all us Piet fans
attending SNF.
We can plan a hamburger, hot dog, or chicken wing (our group will be
prepared)dinner Sunday night. We'll supply hamburgers, hot dogs, wangs,
Chips, Cole slaw, baked beans, etc. Bring yer own beer, tea, or whatever.
We can have it in the campground at say 6:30.
OK , I feel better now. Now we got that settled. See ya'll then.
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sun-n-Fun
>
> I will be going to S&F for a couple days and can go any days except Mon
> & Wedns
> I have to work those evenings . I live 50 miles from Lakeland. Lets try
> to figure out which days most Pieters are going to be there. Ed
> Grentzer
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jannica Wunge" <jannicaw(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Corvair engines. |
Hello Pieters.
I received an email today from a car enthusiast here in Sweden who has in
his possession a Corvair engine of about 80 horsepower. I havent seen
it and I dont know anything else about it except that it has two
carburettors. Would that be the kind of Corvair engine that is suitable for
an AirCamper?
I plan to contact him for further inquiries but I really dont know
what to ask him. Could you help me a little on this? Are there any special
models or variants that are preferable or to avoid? Are there any special
parts to look out for? What do you guys pay for a Corvair engine on your
side of the pond?
Does anyone have a good Internet site where I can learn more about
Corvair-conversions?
I know that Corvair engines have been discussed a lot in this group but
until now I have unfortunately not paid much attention to that.
Two days ago I saw an AirCamper for the first time and also had the
opportunity to sit in it. A man called Orsa-Pelle built this
aircraft in 1932 in the vicinity of Soderhamn in northern Sweden. As far as
I understand it he flow it illegally during the thirties without ever having
anything to do with any authorities. The aeroplane was operated from frozen
lakes and was equipped whit skis. When the war broke out he couldnt
get petrol any more and the aeroplane was tucked away in a boathouse.
A man called Olle Hallberg discovered it there in 1981 as a pile of junk. He
then rebuilt all wood structures and restored it to display condition. The
aeroplane hasnt flown since 1939 and has a steel tube fuselage and an
A-Ford engine.
Next time you pass by a boathouse, go and have a look. You never know.
Jannica Wunge in early spring Sweden
MSN Photos r det enklaste sttet att dela ut och skriva ut foton:
http://photos.msn.se/Support/WorldWide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John_Duprey(at)vmed.org |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair engines. |
04/02/2002 07:42:37 AM
check out www.flycorvair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair engines. |
http://www.flycorvair.com/ is a good place to read
what engines work good Jannica. there are a number of
us in the usa building this engine, and there is
another good site to check out.. it is
www.corvaircraft.com
best of good luck to you
Del
--- Jannica Wunge wrote:
> Wunge"
>
> Hello Pieters.
>
> I received an email today from a car enthusiast here
> in Sweden who has in
> his possession a Corvair engine of about 80
> horsepower. I havent seen
> it and I dont know anything else about it
> except that it has two
> carburettors. Would that be the kind of Corvair
> engine that is suitable for
> an AirCamper?
> I plan to contact him for further inquiries but I
> really dont know
> what to ask him. Could you help me a little on this?
> Are there any special
> models or variants that are preferable or to avoid?
> Are there any special
> parts to look out for? What do you guys pay for a
> Corvair engine on your
> side of the pond?
> Does anyone have a good Internet site where I can
> learn more about
> Corvair-conversions?
> I know that Corvair engines have been discussed a
> lot in this group but
> until now I have unfortunately not paid much
> attention to that.
>
> Two days ago I saw an AirCamper for the first time
> and also had the
> opportunity to sit in it. A man called
> Orsa-Pelle built this
> aircraft in 1932 in the vicinity of Soderhamn in
> northern Sweden. As far as
> I understand it he flow it illegally during the
> thirties without ever having
> anything to do with any authorities. The aeroplane
> was operated from frozen
> lakes and was equipped whit skis. When the war broke
> out he couldnt
> get petrol any more and the aeroplane was tucked
> away in a boathouse.
> A man called Olle Hallberg discovered it there in
> 1981 as a pile of junk. He
> then rebuilt all wood structures and restored it to
> display condition. The
> aeroplane hasnt flown since 1939 and has a
> steel tube fuselage and an
> A-Ford engine.
> Next time you pass by a boathouse, go and have a
> look. You never know.
>
> Jannica Wunge in early spring Sweden
>
>
> MSN Photos r det enklaste sttet att dela ut och
> skriva ut foton:
> http://photos.msn.se/Support/WorldWide.aspx
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair engines. |
Jannica,
This sounds like it may be a corvair motor, but you'll want to at least
look at some photos before spending money.
William Wynne's book is a good investment. Lacking the book, try to get
a motor made after 1965 with a "torsional damper" on the alternator
pulley end.
Be sure to get the bellhousing (cast part that goes around the clutch)
and the metal plates and clips that direct cooling air around the bottom
of the cylinders.
To make sure that you have the 110 horsepower motor you will want to
look at the serial number. Unfortunately, this is on top of the pulley
end of the case, usually buried under the cooling shroud and partly
covered by top cover that holds the fan.
If you can convince the seller to pull off the parts in the way, the
serial number should end with RD RK RX or RH in the '65 and later 110hp
motors. Some others are usable, but one of these would be best.
I bought two motors without being able to see the serial numbers for
$100 US. I got lucky and one is a '65 110hp. The other will be used
for trading and spare parts.
Get William's book and find a friend that has rebuilt engines before.
It's not that hard, just scary at first.
Good luck Jannica!
Larry
Jannica Wunge wrote:
>
>Hello Pieters.
>
>I received an email today from a car enthusiast here in Sweden who has in
>his possession a Corvair engine of about 80 horsepower. I havent seen
>it and I dont know anything else about it except that it has two
>carburettors. Would that be the kind of Corvair engine that is suitable for
>an AirCamper?
>I plan to contact him for further inquiries but I really dont know
>what to ask him. Could you help me a little on this? Are there any special
>models or variants that are preferable or to avoid? Are there any special
>parts to look out for? What do you guys pay for a Corvair engine on your
>side of the pond?
>Does anyone have a good Internet site where I can learn more about
>Corvair-conversions?
>I know that Corvair engines have been discussed a lot in this group but
>until now I have unfortunately not paid much attention to that.
>
>Two days ago I saw an AirCamper for the first time and also had the
>opportunity to sit in it. A man called Orsa-Pelle built this
>aircraft in 1932 in the vicinity of Soderhamn in northern Sweden. As far as
>I understand it he flow it illegally during the thirties without ever having
>anything to do with any authorities. The aeroplane was operated from frozen
>lakes and was equipped whit skis. When the war broke out he couldnt
>get petrol any more and the aeroplane was tucked away in a boathouse.
>A man called Olle Hallberg discovered it there in 1981 as a pile of junk. He
>then rebuilt all wood structures and restored it to display condition. The
>aeroplane hasnt flown since 1939 and has a steel tube fuselage and an
>A-Ford engine.
>Next time you pass by a boathouse, go and have a look. You never know.
>
>Jannica Wunge in early spring Sweden
>
>
>MSN Photos r det enklaste sttet att dela ut och skriva ut foton:
>http://photos.msn.se/Support/WorldWide.aspx
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair engines. |
>
>Hello Pieters.
>
>I received an email today from a car enthusiast here in Sweden who has in
>his possession a Corvair engine of about 80 horsepower. I havent seen
>it and I dont know anything else about it except that it has two
>carburettors. Would that be the kind of Corvair engine that is suitable for
>an AirCamper?
>I plan to contact him for further inquiries but I really dont know
>what to ask him. Could you help me a little on this? Are there any special
>models or variants that are preferable or to avoid? Are there any special
>parts to look out for? What do you guys pay for a Corvair engine on your
>side of the pond?
>Does anyone have a good Internet site where I can learn more about
>Corvair-conversions?
>I know that Corvair engines have been discussed a lot in this group but
>until now I have unfortunately not paid much attention to that.
Hi Jannica,
As Del said, check out www.flycorvair.com. This is the website of William
Wynne, who sells the Corvair conversion manual. If you get the manual
(about $50 US), it will guide you through the process of selecting a good
engine. Also, check his site for a link to the CorvairCraft website; I'm
not sure whether William has a link or not. It is a site run by Pat Panzera
as a resource for people doing Corvair engine conversions for aircraft use.
I don't know the web address offhand, maybe someone else on the list will
post it. If William Wynne does NOT have a link on his site, a web search on
the term 'CorvairCraft' should get you to it. The most useful thing about
this website, for your purposes right now, is that it has a comprehensive
list of engine ID numbers for all the years and types of Corvair motors.
This will help you determine whether or not the engine you have located is
useful.
In general, the best engines to use are the 110hp models made between 1964
and 1967-68. The main reason this is important is that these engines have
the correct type of cylinder heads for conversion. Particularly, avoid the
'turbo' models. The early, pre-1964 models can be used, but then you'll
also need to find the proper (1964 or later) cylinder heads. The one you
are considering does not sound like a 'turbo' version, but may be a
pre-1964 model. The engine ID numbers will tell you.
There are special parts you will need to buy to do a proper conversion;
most are readily available through the Corvair parts suppliers here in the
States (Clark's & Corvair Underground). Again, William Wynne's manual is
the best guide for what you'll need. He also sells specialized parts that
you'll need to do an aircraft-engine conversion. Here in the States, you
would plan on spending about $2500-3000 (US) to do a proper conversion,
about 80% of that for parts, so you can probably figure what your cost
would be by adding any tariff costs to those numbers.
As for price, you really need to do a complete overhaul to do a good
conversion, so you need to consider any engine you buy to be junked
(minimal value). There is no point to buying a running engine for a lot of
money. Here in the States, we pay anything from $0-100 dollars for a
convertable engine. Most of us buy from hobbyists who have a collection of
engines and are willing to part with one (or 2) for little or no money to
someone who is serious about restoring it to use.
Good luck!
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
If the magneto advertised is a Bendix-Scintilla SF4 it will be
direct drive only (no impulse coupling). The Bendix S4 mags,
on the other hand, could have an impulse coupling or be direct
drive. The S4 is a newer design.
My book on the SF4 isn't handy as I write this, so I cannot pro-
vide any other details at the moment. These are sometimes
called "box mags" because of their boxy appearance. They
are big and heavy, but are very reliable and produce a strong
spark. Some parts can be difficult to obtain (Aircraft Spruce
catalog has an exploded view of this magneto and they can
supply a few parts).
If you wish more info. on them, I'll dig out the book (hope I can
find it!).
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
Pieters-
I got a call from our newsletter editor in Brodhead last night about an earlier
article I had submitted and in the course of conversation he said
that one of the hardest things he has to do is find things to publish. Could it
be that the printed newsletters that gave most of us the impetus to keep on going
is becoming a relic?
Seems to me that this web-site is good for getting instant answers but the same
questions and answers seem to cycle through regularly. I recall poring over the
old BPANewsletters for some half-remembered snippet of information when I
came to a crossroad during construction. Lots of the stuff even had pictures!
It's just not the same on-line even with key words and digital photos.
My intent isn't to start another round of making copies of all the oldiesach those
who aren't online and have a resource for newcomers to access so the same
stuff doesn't repeat itself every 6-8 months.
So here's the challenge.......if you've got enough time to sit in front of your
keyboard and pound out the same stuff on the web year in and year
out instead of building your own Cherry Grove missile, how about using a
little of that time to submit an article to the newsletter? Make yourself immortal!!
Pass along gems for those who will follow! Be a contributor!
for those of you unfamiliar, here's the needed info:
BPA
c/o the Independent-Register
P.O. Box 255
Brodhead, WI 53520-0255
(It might also be a nice gesture to add a buck or three to your annual subscription)
Larry
ps. Skip et al, I'll be at Sun-N-Fun Mon & Tue. only, have to get back ho
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
While I agree in principle with what you said, I prefer the list at this time.
The reason is that I tried to get copies of the past news letters and was unsuccessful.
I heard good things about them. I am not a technophile stuck on digital
technology, not by any means, my house is overflowing with aviation books
and magazines, but it has, in my opinion, made communication far faster and efficient.
As for pictures, etc., we can do that by moving to a web forum vs. listservs.
I will probably subscribe to the news letter and try to contribute. It's just that
once anyone stops publishing it the new people, like me, are left wanting.
We hear about what was in it, but cannot see it. If we are lucky some of you
scan in bits and pieces, but once again, that is only because there is a day-to-day
exchange on the list serve. And I think there will be more and more new
people. The web has made it possible for people with no aircraft experience to
enter a world of building aircraft and communicating nearly instantly with people
who know a great deal about building and flying.
I think one thing that should be more prominant on the Matronics site is the ability
to download the archive and the utility to read it. I use this almost daily
and love it. Works offline.
I know I am a rainy day, sorry, just my thoughts.
--
Gary McNeel, Jr.
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
www.mykitplane.com
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Trainer" <dtrain(at)ptd.net> |
I'll be going to S&F but also will only be there for a few days. I'll
be
driving, and leaving Pennsylvania probably on Sunday. So, unfortunately I
will miss the get together and food on Sunday. But, I'll plan on getting to
the wood shop and looking you up later in the week.
I've got the plans and am in the process of building a mockup of the
cockpit area. I need the wood working practice and I want to see how tight
a fit it's going to be!
Dave Trainer
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bert
Conoly
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sun-n-Fun
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Sorry, I dont have any more info on the mag. Like I said, I bought it to
use and the A-65 manual said it would work.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
>
> Dick,
> Now this is an impulse mag. correct? If so, thats what I need. Let me
> know and I'll contact you directly.
> thanks
> walt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
>
>
>
> >
> > Walt
> > It is a SF 4 LN-8 with the drive gear. It has a great spark. I picked
it
> > up for my plane but ended up going with a new slick system. I am trying
> to
> > get what I paid.
> > Dick
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Dick,
> > > Please describe the SF-4 mag for me.
> > > walt
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > If anyone needs a SF-4 mag, I have one that I am planning on bring
to
> > > > Sun n Fun to try to sell. It will have a price of $60 in the Fly
> > > > market.
> > > > From my past experience the Fly market is much better at SNF than at
> > > > Oshgosh.
> > > > Dick Navratil
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 04/02/2002 3:09:59 PM Central Standard Time,
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com writes:
<< While I agree in principle with what you said, I prefer the list at this
time. The reason is that I tried to get copies of the past news letters and
was unsuccessful. >>
Gary, Which back issues were you unsuccessful getting...the 'new' one being
published by the guys in Brodhead or the originals that go back to about 1983
that were done by Frank Pavliga,Sr. and Grant McLaren ? I no longer have the
information on who was making the 'old' issues available (perhaps someone can
post that) but if they are still available they are well worth the price.
And, yes, the list is also a great source of help and info. You should have
both !! Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Dick,
The best I can make out of the AS&S manual is that is a left hand drive mag,
and the A65 needs a right hand drive. does this sound right? Do you turn
the gear to the left or right to "snap".
thanks
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
>
> Sorry, I dont have any more info on the mag. Like I said, I bought it to
> use and the A-65 manual said it would work.
> Dick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
>
>
>
> >
> > Dick,
> > Now this is an impulse mag. correct? If so, thats what I need. Let me
> > know and I'll contact you directly.
> > thanks
> > walt
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Walt
> > > It is a SF 4 LN-8 with the drive gear. It has a great spark. I
picked
> it
> > > up for my plane but ended up going with a new slick system. I am
trying
> > to
> > > get what I paid.
> > > Dick
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Dick,
> > > > Please describe the SF-4 mag for me.
> > > > walt
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
> > > > To:
> > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If anyone needs a SF-4 mag, I have one that I am planning on
bring
> to
> > > > > Sun n Fun to try to sell. It will have a price of $60 in the Fly
> > > > > market.
> > > > > From my past experience the Fly market is much better at SNF than
at
> > > > > Oshgosh.
> > > > > Dick Navratil
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: magnetos (Some more information on Bendix models) |
Here is some more information on the magnetos suitable for
the small Contintental engines commonly used on Pietenpols:
Bendix-Scintilla SF4 RN - 8 is used on the A65 -8 and C85 -8
engines having no provision for a starter or generator. The de-
signation means this:
S stands for single type magneto,
F " " flange mounting,
4 " " number of distributor outlets/ cylinders served,
R " " right hand rotation as viewed from the drive end,
N " " Scintilla manufacture and
-8 " " 8th modification of the basic magneto.
The SF4 magnetos do not employ an impulse coupling, accord-
ing to the Bendix-Scintilla Service Instructions I have.
So, with the -8 Continentals, one uses a right-hand rotation mag-
neto and with the -12 Continentals a left-hand rotation magneto is
employed---regardless of the magneto make. It is necessary in
any case to refer to the engine application information supplied
by the magneto manufacturer, or the engine manufacturer's parts
manual, to determine eligible magneto makes and models for
your engine.
The Bendix S4RN -21 is suitable for the -8 Continentals and has
either direct or impulse drives. As I noted previously, they are a
newer model than the SF4 and have quite an extensive airworthi-
ness directive history. But if you find a pair in good condition and
can satisfy the AD thing, they will give you great service.
Both Bendix models are shielded types.
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF- AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
It is the old versions. I contacted Grant but he is busy restoring a Model A
and does not have the time to do it. I would take over the task of copying
and distributing them, but have none to copy. I would think Kinko's could do
it or I could get them into an electronic format and have them printed.
Anyhow, I like the idea of both too. Nothing like a great aircraft magazine
or newspaper cluttering up the place and making you feel motivated every
time you see it.
-Gary
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> DonanClara(at)aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 7:41 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: newsletter
>
>
> In a message dated 04/02/2002 3:09:59 PM Central Standard Time,
> gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com writes:
>
> << While I agree in principle with what you said, I prefer the
> list at this
> time. The reason is that I tried to get copies of the past news
> letters and
> was unsuccessful. >>
> Gary, Which back issues were you unsuccessful getting...the 'new'
> one being
> published by the guys in Brodhead or the originals that go back
> to about 1983
> that were done by Frank Pavliga,Sr. and Grant McLaren ? I no
> longer have the
> information on who was making the 'old' issues available (perhaps
> someone can
> post that) but if they are still available they are well worth the price.
> And, yes, the list is also a great source of help and info. You
> should have
> both !! Don
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Mike Bell offered to put all of the old newsletters on CD at one time if
everyone would send in. I don't know whether it ever happened.
----- Original Message -----
From: <DonanClara(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: newsletter
>
> In a message dated 04/02/2002 3:09:59 PM Central Standard Time,
> gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com writes:
>
> << While I agree in principle with what you said, I prefer the list at
this
> time. The reason is that I tried to get copies of the past news letters
and
> was unsuccessful. >>
> Gary, Which back issues were you unsuccessful getting...the 'new' one
being
> published by the guys in Brodhead or the originals that go back to about
1983
> that were done by Frank Pavliga,Sr. and Grant McLaren ? I no longer have
the
> information on who was making the 'old' issues available (perhaps someone
can
> post that) but if they are still available they are well worth the price.
> And, yes, the list is also a great source of help and info. You should
have
> both !! Don
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
>
>Mike Bell offered to put all of the old newsletters on CD at one time if
>everyone would send in. I don't know whether it ever happened.
Mike made and distributed paper copies about a year ago. A number of us
bought them & I feel that they were well worth the $40 he asked to cover
costs. However, I don't know if he has any copies left. I also believe that
the Brodhead guys had or were trying to get together an archive of all tht
original BPA newsletters.
I enjoy the newsletter a lot, obviously not as current or immediate as the
list, but it has a purpose as far as I'm concerned. Now, if I can just
think up an article...(think anyone would be interested in an article about
the advantages & pitfalls of buying a project in progress?)
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 04/02/2002 9:49:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com writes:
<< It is the old versions. I contacted Grant but he is busy restoring a Model
A
and does not have the time to do it. I would take over the task of copying
and distributing them, but have none to copy. I would think Kinko's could do
it or I could get them into an electronic format and have them printed.
>>
I, for one would be interested in the entire series of back issues being
scanned and converted to PDF type documents, then either made available on
WEB or CD. I have the scanner, CD-RW but not the Adobe Acrobat to convert
scanned documents to PDF.
Kip - did you get one of the copies of the back issues ? I know several here
on this list did.
-dennis the menace
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
>Kip - did you get one of the copies of the back issues ? I know several here
>on this list did.
>
>-dennis the menace
Sure did. It's been very useful, although right now it's one of those items
that has not been unpacked from the move yet. Need to get on that!
Kip
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Wiebe" <ramjetwiebe(at)hotmail.com> |
I have everything needed to do a CD of the issues - document scanner with
sheet feeder, Adobe Acrobat, CD burner, etc. If there is any way you can get
the archive material to me (Lower Mainland, BC Canada / Pacific Northwest) I
could do the archive, database and directory as a labour of love.
Robert Wiebe
----- Original Message -----
From: <Dmott9(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: newsletter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
Ditto.
So, who has all the newsletter that we can convert? How big are they?
-Gary
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Robert Wiebe" <ramjetwiebe(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:04:35 -0800
>
>I have everything needed to do a CD of the issues - document scanner with
>sheet feeder, Adobe Acrobat, CD burner, etc. If there is any way you can get
>the archive material to me (Lower Mainland, BC Canada / Pacific Northwest) I
>could do the archive, database and directory as a labour of love.
>
>Robert Wiebe
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Dmott9(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: newsletter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Piet FOR SALE.....click on web site below |
http://members.aol.com/bpanews/4sale.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Sorry
I dont have any more info. The mag is packed in the camper any I'm ready to
go.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
>
> Dick,
> The best I can make out of the AS&S manual is that is a left hand drive
mag,
> and the A65 needs a right hand drive. does this sound right? Do you turn
> the gear to the left or right to "snap".
> thanks
> walt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
>
>
>
> >
> > Sorry, I dont have any more info on the mag. Like I said, I bought it
to
> > use and the A-65 manual said it would work.
> > Dick
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Dick,
> > > Now this is an impulse mag. correct? If so, thats what I need. Let
me
> > > know and I'll contact you directly.
> > > thanks
> > > walt
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Walt
> > > > It is a SF 4 LN-8 with the drive gear. It has a great spark. I
> picked
> > it
> > > > up for my plane but ended up going with a new slick system. I am
> trying
> > > to
> > > > get what I paid.
> > > > Dick
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> > > > To:
> > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dick,
> > > > > Please describe the SF-4 mag for me.
> > > > > walt
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If anyone needs a SF-4 mag, I have one that I am planning on
> bring
> > to
> > > > > > Sun n Fun to try to sell. It will have a price of $60 in the
Fly
> > > > > > market.
> > > > > > From my past experience the Fly market is much better at SNF
than
> at
> > > > > > Oshgosh.
> > > > > > Dick Navratil
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Holland" <iholland(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail wheel Spring |
I talked to the J.D guys and found it was in use on a combine in 1926.
Still has the same part number!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 04/02/2002 8:49:19 PM Central Standard Time,
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com writes:
<< I would take over the task of copying
and distributing them, but have none to copy. I would think Kinko's could do
it or I could get them into an electronic format and have them printed. >>
Gary, I can't help you on that but the subject opened up a string and may
turn up someone with decent enough material for copying. My set is second and
third generation and I have a terrible habit of writing notes and
highlighting everything. Just wouldn't be suitable. Looks like there are
those anxious to do the copying if someone can agree to loan out their
originals. Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Engelkenjohn <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
"Gary McNeel, Jr." wrote:
>
>
> I will probably subscribe to the news letter and try to contribute. It's just
that once anyone stops publishing it the new people, like me, are left wanting.
We hear
Hi Gary:
I ordered reprints from Carl Pitcher. I found his name in the archives and
called him about past issues. I forget the price right now, but I got copies of
all from the start of the newsletter. It was just within the last 3 months,
and they are great! I read them at night to go to sleep.
Dennis Engelkenjohn
ps...got Michael Cuys' video too...its great also.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeffery Lorimor <jlorimor(at)willinet.net> |
Group-
I just purchased back copies of the newsletters & received them last Monday
from
Carl Pitcher
16276 Taft Street
Spring Lake, MI 49456
616-847-0597
However, Carl's wife (I assume) said I was getting the last set, and that
they weren't going to sell them anymore. Sounds like a good opportunity
for an entreprenuer to me!
Jeff Lorimor
Jeff & Peg Lorimor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ken breier" <kbreier(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | corvair engine on ebay |
There is a rebuilt 110 engine on ebay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
What is a GPU military engine? Made by Continental. Still in GPU housing.
Trying to get more information on model and serial #s.
First, none of you can out bid me if it is a good deal. That said, here is
the eBay link for it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1817443027&r=0
&t=0
Any of you officiando's know what this is and can it be converted for
aircraft use. I am leaning toward the O-200 after some urging by a friend I
respect greatly for his aircraft knowledge, though I still think about the
Corvair. Decisions, decisions.
TIA
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA 665957
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Pacetti <gpacetti(at)yahoo.com> |
Gary,
This is an engine that the miltary says puts out
20HP in stock form. It was designed by Continental and
built under lisence by a number of different eng.
manufacturers. It is commonly refered to as a 4A084 as
it is 4 clys. and 84ci displacement.
Dean Auburndale, Fla.
PS, I have one that I'm putting on an Affordaplane
Ultralight.
--- "Gary McNeel, Jr." wrote:
> Jr."
>
> What is a GPU military engine? Made by Continental.
> Still in GPU housing.
> Trying to get more information on model and serial
> #s.
>
> First, none of you can out bid me if it is a good
> deal. That said, here is
> the eBay link for it:
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1817443027&r=0
> &t=0
>
> Any of you officiando's know what this is and can it
> be converted for
> aircraft use. I am leaning toward the O-200 after
> some urging by a friend I
> respect greatly for his aircraft knowledge, though I
> still think about the
> Corvair. Decisions, decisions.
>
> TIA
>
> Regards,
>
> Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
> MyKitPlane.com
> EAA 665957
> gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
>
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
>
> "What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come
> back?"
>
> Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last
> recorded words, in reply to
> a request for an autograph as he was climbing into
> the cockpit of his plane.
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mikebell(at)sc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Newsletter Reprints |
I sold the last copy of the newsletter reprints a couple of months ago. But
. . .
I still have the single sided 8 1/2 x 11 set that I had Kinkos make to copy
from. The newsletters were mostly double sided and 11 x 17. Part of the
cost of the last run was paying somebody at Kinkos to stand at a copier and
make this set from the originals. Then they were copied double sided onto
pre-punched 8 1/2 x 11, ready to put into a thick three ring notebook.
I believe that I had to have about 15 copies of the approximately 800 pages
run to get the cost down to $40 a set.
There was a guy in Chicago(?) that wanted to get the last set to copy onto
CD but he never sent the money.
A CD would probably be the best way to go with these things, since once the
effort has been made to scan them, the cost of burning CD's is pennies
instead of dollars.
The other alternate that I thought about was to edit them down with a pair
of scissors. About 2/3 of the content was mostly communication to keep the
group together and informed of each others progress. If that approach was
used, then it could probably be reduced to about 100+ double sided pages.
Coolest idea of all was to scan and convert to text, but a scissor edit job
would still need to be done to separate and group the text and photos for
each article.
I am open to suggestions which way to go with these things. My thought is
that the scissor edit to 100 - 150 pages is the best idea. CD's are great
and the net is wonderful, but I still print off a lot of things that I find
on the net to have in my hand to read, mark up, carry around in the car to
read at odd times, etc. I guess that I'm old fashioned that way.
One more thing, some of the newsletters that I copied from were originals
and some were already copies. That makes my "originals" second and
sometimes third generation copies. The sets that were sold last time were
then third and fourth generation. The parts that were fourth generation
showed it with poor copy quality and a lot of the thirds were not that great
either. But from the notes I got back, that was good enough for information
hungry Pieters.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Newsletter Reprints |
Don't need to use scissors at all. One can scan and then convert to a PDF
which can be burned on a CD. Or you can OCR and scan the graphics
separately and re-build in PageMaker or Word, then make PDFs to burn into
the CD. Having the text would make it easier to search but using notes for
a page would do essential the same thing.
A good example of the text and graphics approach is the FAA AC 43-13.1B
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
We also support Aeroncas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Bell" <mikebell(at)sc.rr.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Newsletter Reprints
I sold the last copy of the newsletter reprints a couple of months ago. But
. . .
I still have the single sided 8 1/2 x 11 set that I had Kinkos make to copy
from. The newsletters were mostly double sided and 11 x 17. Part of the
cost of the last run was paying somebody at Kinkos to stand at a copier and
make this set from the originals. Then they were copied double sided onto
pre-punched 8 1/2 x 11, ready to put into a thick three ring notebook.
I believe that I had to have about 15 copies of the approximately 800 pages
run to get the cost down to $40 a set.
There was a guy in Chicago(?) that wanted to get the last set to copy onto
CD but he never sent the money.
A CD would probably be the best way to go with these things, since once the
effort has been made to scan them, the cost of burning CD's is pennies
instead of dollars.
The other alternate that I thought about was to edit them down with a pair
of scissors. About 2/3 of the content was mostly communication to keep the
group together and informed of each others progress. If that approach was
used, then it could probably be reduced to about 100+ double sided pages.
Coolest idea of all was to scan and convert to text, but a scissor edit job
would still need to be done to separate and group the text and photos for
each article.
I am open to suggestions which way to go with these things. My thought is
that the scissor edit to 100 - 150 pages is the best idea. CD's are great
and the net is wonderful, but I still print off a lot of things that I find
on the net to have in my hand to read, mark up, carry around in the car to
read at odd times, etc. I guess that I'm old fashioned that way.
One more thing, some of the newsletters that I copied from were originals
and some were already copies. That makes my "originals" second and
sometimes third generation copies. The sets that were sold last time were
then third and fourth generation. The parts that were fourth generation
showed it with poor copy quality and a lot of the thirds were not that great
either. But from the notes I got back, that was good enough for information
hungry Pieters.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John_Duprey(at)vmed.org |
04/04/2002 09:36:37 AM
Hi Gary: GPU stands for "Ground Power Unit". I have heard of people using
these for expermentals I believe tha crank need to be changed out for
this. Good Luck!
"Gary McNeel, Jr." (at)matronics.com on 04/03/2002
11:27:44 PM
Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Semi-Urgent
What is a GPU military engine? Made by Continental. Still in GPU housing.
Trying to get more information on model and serial #s.
First, none of you can out bid me if it is a good deal. That said, here is
the eBay link for it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1817443027&r=0
&t=0
Any of you officiando's know what this is and can it be converted for
aircraft use. I am leaning toward the O-200 after some urging by a friend I
respect greatly for his aircraft knowledge, though I still think about the
Corvair. Decisions, decisions.
TIA
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA 665957
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his
plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
Gary,
There was some conversation regarding the Ground Power Units sold at
military auctions within the last year. They are essentially electric
generators and from what I remember, the motor is slightly different from a
true C-85/O-200, although I'm not real sure. I can't remember what the
consensus from the group was. Check the archives. Also, there are
companies that specialize in military auctions and you can almost always
find one of these from them.
http://www.galleria-e.com/cgi-bin/colemans.storefront/en/catalog/1097
The item for sale is listed in Mesa, maybe DJ could check it out for you.
(Sorry DJ for volunteering you)
Robert "the Yankee" (with a wink toward the bijou) Haines
Du Quoin, Illinois
> From: "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Semi-Urgent
>
>
> What is a GPU military engine? Made by Continental. Still in GPU housing.
> Trying to get more information on model and serial #s.
>
> First, none of you can out bid me if it is a good deal. That said, here is
> the eBay link for it:
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1817443027&r=0
> &t=0
>
> Any of you officiando's know what this is and can it be converted for
> aircraft use. I am leaning toward the O-200 after some urging by a friend
I
> respect greatly for his aircraft knowledge, though I still think about the
> Corvair. Decisions, decisions.
>
> TIA
>
> Regards,
>
> Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
> MyKitPlane.com
> EAA 665957
> gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
>
> "What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
Forgot to add one thing. They are rated in kW output which I would guess is
an electrical output. Knowing that to provide a certain amount of output
from a generator, you must provide more input to cover the inefficiencies.
So if the unit is 15kW which converts to 20 HP, the motor may be at least
30-40HP. I know... bla bla bla.
What I'm trying to say is that there's an easy way to quickly judge whether
the GPU is even worth taking a look at; ignore anything in the 1-10kW range,
it's probably just a Briggs and Stratton. :)
But if its one of the larger ones, have them provide a motor displacement or
motor serial number.
Robert Haines
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
Thanks Dean. This sure helps. -Gary
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dean
> Pacetti
> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 3:37 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Semi-Urgent
>
>
> Gary,
> This is an engine that the miltary says puts out
> 20HP in stock form. It was designed by Continental and
> built under lisence by a number of different eng.
> manufacturers. It is commonly refered to as a 4A084 as
> it is 4 clys. and 84ci displacement.
> Dean Auburndale, Fla.
> PS, I have one that I'm putting on an Affordaplane
> Ultralight.
>
> --- "Gary McNeel, Jr." wrote:
> > Jr."
> >
> > What is a GPU military engine? Made by Continental.
> > Still in GPU housing.
> > Trying to get more information on model and serial
> > #s.
> >
> > First, none of you can out bid me if it is a good
> > deal. That said, here is
> > the eBay link for it:
> >
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1817
> 443027&r=0
> > &t=0
> >
> > Any of you officiando's know what this is and can it
> > be converted for
> > aircraft use. I am leaning toward the O-200 after
> > some urging by a friend I
> > respect greatly for his aircraft knowledge, though I
> > still think about the
> > Corvair. Decisions, decisions.
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
> > MyKitPlane.com
> > EAA 665957
> > gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
> >
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
> >
> > "What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come
> > back?"
> >
> > Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last
> > recorded words, in reply to
> > a request for an autograph as he was climbing into
> > the cockpit of his plane.
> >
> >
> >
> > Forum -
> > Contributions of
> > any other form
> >
> > latest messages.
> > other List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/search
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Look for this this afternoon |
Gary,
To my knowledge, the cylinders only have one (upper) spark plug hole with a
boss that would have to be machined for another so you are limited to one
spark plug unless you get the work done. ASk anyone else on the list that
has an A-65/C85/o200 about how many RPMs thye can sustain on one magneto and
the will tell you about 1900. The second plug makes a big difference on
power output. Go to your power curves for any of these engines and compute
the power vs avail RPM and you will see a pretty low number, maybe 50 HP for
the 0-200.
The cylinders have the exhaust ports on the bottom but the intake ports are
on top. This pretty much means that you have to have your carb above the
engine. Then your fuel tank needs to be about 28" (or some number big like
this) above the carb float valve (this is the "head" pressure). C-90 or
0-200 cylinders bolt right on though.
THe crank is the same as an 0200 except that the flange is about 1/2 to 2/3
as thick and does not have the centering boss. It could be a good source
for a crank if you make a new flange/boss adapter to SAE 1 spec. That is
assuming that the crank is still good. Also one of the prop bolt holes is
off of the circle used by the other five.
The crankcase soed not have the standard mounting lugs on the rear of the
case. Inestead, it uses a bed type mount like on a franklin or the bigger
continentals like in a bonanza.
The rear case a gears are quite a bit different. You would have to see the
book referenced next.
I have a catalog published by Provincial Arimotive Corp from 1968 that has
extensive details on the conversion of these PC-60 packette engines. I will
take it to my father inlaws and have him scan, burn to disk , and then post
it back to this list.
Chris bobka
TC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
John_Duprey(at)vmed.org
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Semi-Urgent
Hi Gary: GPU stands for "Ground Power Unit". I have heard of people using
these for expermentals I believe tha crank need to be changed out for
this. Good Luck!
"Gary McNeel, Jr." (at)matronics.com on 04/03/2002
11:27:44 PM
Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Semi-Urgent
What is a GPU military engine? Made by Continental. Still in GPU housing.
Trying to get more information on model and serial #s.
First, none of you can out bid me if it is a good deal. That said, here is
the eBay link for it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1817443027&r=0
&t=0
Any of you officiando's know what this is and can it be converted for
aircraft use. I am leaning toward the O-200 after some urging by a friend I
respect greatly for his aircraft knowledge, though I still think about the
Corvair. Decisions, decisions.
TIA
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA 665957
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his
plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Look for this this afternoon |
Thanks Chris. That greatly clarify's it for me. Sounds like you could just look
for a tired O-200 and rebuild it cheaper.
-Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
Per Mike Cuy's post about the Piet for sale on Grant McClaren's website.........It's
NOT a PIET!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com> |
I may be interested in your SF-4 mag. I have two but expect to need parts. I will
be taking them apart for inspection in the next few days. I cannot attend Sun
n Fun. Perhaps I'll know my specific needs before you leave.
Dave Boyd, Champaign, IL
From: "Richard Navratril" <HORZPOOL(at)GOLDENGATE.NET>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: magnetos
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 22:29:29 -0600
-- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratril"
If anyone needs a SF-4 mag, I have one that I am planning on bring to
Sun n Fun to try to sell. It will have a price of $60 in the Fly
market.
From my past experience the Fly market is much better at SNF than at
Oshgosh.
Dick Navratil
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | Ebay auctions... |
First, let me thank all of you for the feedback on the GPU. I learned a
bunch.
Next, I stumbled on this site on Ebay. The stuff looks like what I bought at
Sears (that was made in Taiwan). It looks identical in fact. The prices seem
reasonable and their rating is very high. So, those of you needing tools,
here is a resource. To late for me.
http://www.stores.ebay.com/id=2685422
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA 665957
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fabric system test - open for input/samples |
I am setting up a test with a friend of mine who is a chemistry prof
at Macalester college in St Paul, MN to find out once (and maybe for
all) if the various latex covering idea block UV light. He has the
ability to test transmission and blocking of UV through materials.
Currently I am planning on trying the following paints
Black latex
Rustoleum Oil Based Enamel #7715 Aluminum
Green exterior latex
Kilz 2 Latex
If you would like to see others tested let me know. I don't plan on
buying tons of different paints as I only need a small dab for each
test.
The paint gets put on a quartz plate (glass absorbs some UV) and then
put into a machine that shines a fine UV light at/through the
material and senses any transmission on the other side.
I'll post the results when done - it will probably be a number of weeks.
Kirk
--
Kirk Huizenga and Bryan Eastep's Aircamper and Corvair Project
http://www.photoisland.com/servlet/GuestLogin?USERNAME=khuizenga
Password: fly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mark boynton <marktboynton(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system test - open for input/samples |
Kirk,
Will you be using a control (sample from a certified
system)?
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, AZ
--- Kirk & Laura Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com>
wrote:
> Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com>
>
> I am setting up a test with a friend of mine who is
> a chemistry prof
> at Macalester college in St Paul, MN to find out
> once (and maybe for
> all) if the various latex covering idea block UV
> light. He has the
> ability to test transmission and blocking of UV
> through materials.
>
> Currently I am planning on trying the following
> paints
>
> Black latex
> Rustoleum Oil Based Enamel #7715 Aluminum
> Green exterior latex
> Kilz 2 Latex
>
> If you would like to see others tested let me know.
> I don't plan on
> buying tons of different paints as I only need a
> small dab for each
> test.
>
> The paint gets put on a quartz plate (glass absorbs
> some UV) and then
> put into a machine that shines a fine UV light
> at/through the
> material and senses any transmission on the other
> side.
>
> I'll post the results when done - it will probably
> be a number of weeks.
>
> Kirk
> --
> Kirk Huizenga and Bryan Eastep's Aircamper and
> Corvair Project
>
http://www.photoisland.com/servlet/GuestLogin?USERNAME=khuizenga
> Password: fly
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
Can anyone tell me if all Eiseman LA-4 magnetos are configured the same
or are there variations that I need to look for. My Franklin had one good
one on it when I bought it,the other one was replaced with a bendix
industrial engine mag that is in really bad shape. I would like to try to
find a matching Eiseman at Sun N Fun next week but dont want to come home
with something that wont fit. I was going to go with a brand new Slick set
up but my engine costs are getting out of hand. Also if anyone in the group
has one they would like to sell that would work too. Thanks in advance Ed
Grentzer
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system test - open for input/samples |
>The paint gets put on a quartz plate (glass absorbs some UV) and then
>put into a machine that shines a fine UV light at/through the
>material and senses any transmission on the other side.
>
>I'll post the results when done - it will probably be a number of weeks.
>
>Kirk
Kirk,
Good show! This is the kind of testing that helps answer real questions.
Might I suggest that you also include a small piece of painted fabric for
each type of paint? Also, I assume that your friend understands that the
paint needs to be comparable in thickness to what would be covering the
fabric and fully DRY for the test to be accurate. This could be the basis
of a useful newsletter article if someone was willing to write it up.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: LA-4 Magnetos |
From the manual an LA-4 is the shielded 4 cylinder mag. It can be converted
to a 6 cylinder merely by changing the distributor black and outlet plate.
The Impulse is another matter. They can be clock wise or counter clockwise.
If you have the 4 Franklin they are clock wise. If you have a 6 then they
can be either but can be converted by replacement with the proper part.
Page 3 of TAP always has a listing of Eisemann parts.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: LA-4 Magnetos
Can anyone tell me if all Eiseman LA-4 magnetos are configured the same
or are there variations that I need to look for. My Franklin had one good
one on it when I bought it,the other one was replaced with a bendix
industrial engine mag that is in really bad shape. I would like to try to
find a matching Eiseman at Sun N Fun next week but dont want to come home
with something that wont fit. I was going to go with a brand new Slick set
up but my engine costs are getting out of hand. Also if anyone in the group
has one they would like to sell that would work too. Thanks in advance Ed
Grentzer
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system test - open for input/samples |
I could do that, but it might not measure what we want. The fabric will
likely absorb some of the UV and give a false negative. In other words,
the paint may let some UV through (and degrade the fabric over time),
but the fabric may absorb enough UV to make it look like the system is
effective when it is not.
I think a better process might be to paint some fabric up in the way
people are likely to cover their planes and measure the thickness of the
paint on the final product (e.g. 1.7 oz uncertified fabric covered with
two coats of black latex and then two coats of color exterior latex).
Then the I could at least compare or simulate the thickness of the test
sample on the quartz with the actual thickness.
Thanks for the input - keep it coming. I'm hope some senior student will
get interested in the project and help out. I will plan on writing up
some article when the deed is done.
Kirk
>
>
>>The paint gets put on a quartz plate (glass absorbs some UV) and then
>>put into a machine that shines a fine UV light at/through the
>>material and senses any transmission on the other side.
>>
>>I'll post the results when done - it will probably be a number of weeks.
>>
>>Kirk
>>
>
>
>Kirk,
>
>Good show! This is the kind of testing that helps answer real questions.
>Might I suggest that you also include a small piece of painted fabric for
>each type of paint? Also, I assume that your friend understands that the
>paint needs to be comparable in thickness to what would be covering the
>fabric and fully DRY for the test to be accurate. This could be the basis
>of a useful newsletter article if someone was willing to write it up.
>
>Cheers!
>
>Kip Gardner
>
>426 Schneider St. SE
>North Canton, OH 44720
>(330) 494-1775
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fabric system test - open for input/samples |
Well, it won't really be a control, but yes, I plan on running the same
test on the Polyfiber system and maybe AFS if they are willing to send
out samples of their chemicals.
Thanks
Kirk
mark boynton wrote:
>
>Kirk,
>
>Will you be using a control (sample from a certified
>system)?
>
>Mark Boynton
>Gilbert, AZ
>
>--- Kirk & Laura Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com>
>>
>>I am setting up a test with a friend of mine who is
>>a chemistry prof
>>at Macalester college in St Paul, MN to find out
>>once (and maybe for
>>all) if the various latex covering idea block UV
>>light. He has the
>>ability to test transmission and blocking of UV
>>through materials.
>>
>>Currently I am planning on trying the following
>>paints
>>
>>Black latex
>>Rustoleum Oil Based Enamel #7715 Aluminum
March 22, 2002 - April 05, 2002
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-co