Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-cu
August 30, 2002 - October 04, 2002
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20020628X01001&key=1
This fisher plane flys the same speed range as a piet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib stiching |
that report is the one about Joe Carter. The "witness" in the report
is my dad. I was present the day Joe called my dad and asked about
whether he should continue to fly the craft. I heard my dad tell him
"ground the plane Joe"
We still aren't 100% sure it was fabric, but there are things not in the
report that I know that really lead me to believe it is.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: steamlaunch(at)softhome.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 10:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib stiching
Those considering to build without rib stiching should read the report
found
at:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id20020628X01001&key1
This fisher plane flys the same speed range as a piet.
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messages.
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http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | A couple of elevator geometry questions. |
I've looked for these numbers but haven't found them. What are the maximum
deflection angles up and down for the elevators. I seem to remember 22
degrees for down but am not sure of this, and don't know the up value.
Also, my top elevator cable rubs the stabilizer leading edge the entire
travel of the elevator. I know some rub is normal - is this excessive? I
plan on installing nylon rub strips after the stabilizer is covered.
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/31/02 |
Matt,
I too have presented this question to the list many times without a
satisfactory answer. This summer at Brodhead an elderly gent was talking
about Piets. It appeared he was a friend of BHP and stated, if I remember
correctly, that BHP said the elevator travel should be 30 degrees both ways.
Better check as my memory has lost power on final.
Corky in, I think, La.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
An excellent landing at the wrong airport is an excellent landing wasted.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Getting Bounced From Matronics Lists... |
Dear Listers,
I have two programs I run regularly to purge the various Matronics email
lists of bad email addresses. I referred to these as my Email Weasels and
there is a daily version that is run automatically every night at midnight
and there is a and a monthly version that I run by hand at roughly 30-day
intervals.
The Daily Weasel grinds through the 8 to 10mb of bounced email that is
generated each day looking for obvious things like "user unknown", "host
unknown", and other things that usually mean the user's email address
doesn't exist any longer. The Daily Weasel has been purging 5 to 10 email
addresses each night.
The Monthly Weasel gets more serious about the task and sends a single
message to each list member with specially generated headers and content
information. Any bounces or replies to these messages are considered
errors and the email address is eligible for purging. This program is
particularly useful for "weaseling out" email addresses that are actually
being forwarded to by another email address that is subscribed to a List
and otherwise would not be identifiable. The Monthly Weasel purges roughly
100 nonexistent email addresses each month when it is run.
To check to see if your address has been removed by either of the Email
Weasel programs, you can check the Weasel Status Web Page at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If you find your email address on the Weasel List, but are certain that
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That all having been said, I've noticed that the Daily Weasel may have been
getting a little too aggressive in purging addresses recently and a number
of people have written asking if and why they'd been dropped from the List.
A couple of months ago I rewrote the Daily Weasel program to include a
wider variety of errors and more aggressively purge. One of the new purge
criteria that I added seems to occur a fair amount of the time (Connection
Deferred) even though the address is really okay.
As of today, I've removed the Connection Deferred criteria from the Daily
Weasel Rule set and this should decrease the number of "false positives"
and unnecessary unsubscribed.
Again, if you get unsubscribed by either of the Email Weasel utilities,
simply go to the subscription page and resubscribe:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
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temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
\"bob decamp\""
| Subject: | won't be long now |
Corky and all,
Recieved my "cover-it" hanger on friday. Went to the airport sat
morning wondering how to move the other hanger, to put the new one in
it's place. Well one of my fly friends comes up with an idea, and we do
it. I pull my van into the hanger and lift it with straps over the van,
and "float" it and drive it away. What I thought was an impossable job
took a half hour.
Then this AM the new hanger went up. It's all up, needs some final
"squareing" and the cover will go on. This will be the new home for my
Piet.
Corky, anything from the Feds?
I'll be next ( at least near the front of the line.)
Pic is on
alt.binaries.pictures.aviation
walt
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: won't be long now |
Walt,
I have everything completed in an envelope for the Fedman except the
notarized signature on one of those many forms. That will be taken care of on
the way to the PO. They should receive it Wed or Thurs but probably won't act
on it until mid month and then requestfunds for the 240 mile trip which will
take another 4 to 6 weeks sooooooooooooooooooooo I'm expecting to hear from
them by Thanksgiving but no later than Christmas. These southern buros act as
slow as we talk.
My friends gathered all the best mechanics on the airport last week while I
was in Indiana and solved my carb problem ( I pray ). If not your friend will
still hear from me. I do appreciate the consideration you both showed. If you
know some yankee friend who wants a real nice Piet tell him to e-mail me
directly or call Corky at 318 868 3385. I'll let it go as soon as the 25 are
flown off.
Corky in La crying over that LSU Va Tech game
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: won't be long now |
Corky,
After seeing that project of yours, I wouldn't be too quick to pass it
along. they are talking of the new rules in the spring of '03.
Let me know what happens with the carb.
In the words of one of the listers,,,"If I were you, I would fly it license
or no license"
walt
ps. It's not till you build , that the statement " when you're building,
you always have your next project in your head", means anything. Corky,
what's your next project?
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: won't be long now
>
> Walt,
> I have everything completed in an envelope for the Fedman except the
> notarized signature on one of those many forms. That will be taken care of
on
> the way to the PO. They should receive it Wed or Thurs but probably won't
act
> on it until mid month and then requestfunds for the 240 mile trip which
will
> take another 4 to 6 weeks sooooooooooooooooooooo I'm expecting to hear
from
> them by Thanksgiving but no later than Christmas. These southern buros act
as
> slow as we talk.
> My friends gathered all the best mechanics on the airport last week while
I
> was in Indiana and solved my carb problem ( I pray ). If not your friend
will
> still hear from me. I do appreciate the consideration you both showed. If
you
> know some yankee friend who wants a real nice Piet tell him to e-mail me
> directly or call Corky at 318 868 3385. I'll let it go as soon as the 25
are
> flown off.
> Corky in La crying over that LSU Va Tech game
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
There was a question about the correct elevator travel limits on the list a while
back and according to a recent posting, the question was never addressed. I
don't pretend to be the final authority on this, only what I
have experienced first-hand and gleaned from others over the years.
I remember carefully making cardboard cut-outs that accurately matched the limits
that I'd heard were "the" angles. Upon getting to the airport and moving my
elevators, I found that it was impossible for me to move them as far as I was
supposed to be able to. The interference was due to the
narrow hinge gap. In other words, the top and bottom edges of the T.E. of the stab
and the L.E. of the elevators met before the intended angle was reached. What
to do? I wasn't about to uncover the tail section, plane down the offending
edges, and recover the whole thing. Besides, it LOOKED
like I had plenty of travel.
Unfortunately, I don't remember what the suggested angles were but I was
within 4-5 degrees on the "UP" side and just about right on when the elevator was
hanging down. ( it was like 20 degrees down and 24 degrees up; somebody help
me here!)
After flying mine and talking to a lot of others, it became apparent that nobody
I talked to had EVER used all the travel that they had available
to them. I know that I have never run out of travel on mine. Looking back in flight
it's apparent that 1-2 inches is PLENTY.......I haven't looked backwards
to check it out during my landing flare ;-) but I know that I'm not against the
stops.
I suppose I'm missing some esoteric aerodynamic fundamental that will be
brought to my attention quickly and forcefully, but in my little universe of "if
it works, it's probably fine", you all have my $.02 worth of elevator travel
limits................
Larry
Paines truths
You know you're getting old when airplanes you used to fly are sitting up on sticks
at airport entrances.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Leading Edge Ply Scarf |
Just wondering if the 1/16" ply on leading edge is scarfed together
to make a continuous piece then bent or is it just butted up to the
previous piece. I would guess that scarfing and epoxying would reduce
the bendability somewhat.
I have the three piece wing if it matters. Also the plans show for 9"
of cover with the ply - Is that about what people have used? I'm just
trying to figure out how much ply I need.
Thanks
Kirk
--
Kirk Huizenga and Bryan Eastep's Aircamper and Corvair Project
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList.cfm?Menu=PhotoGallery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Leading Edge Ply Scarf |
Hi Kirk,
The L/E ply is just butted, centered on a rib, like house construction with
sheet rock and wall studs. Pietenpol and others have used cardboard and
that can't be scarfed.
Skip
> Just wondering if the 1/16" ply on leading edge is scarfed together
> to make a continuous piece then bent or is it just butted up to the
> previous piece. I would guess that scarfing and epoxying would reduce
> Thanks
> Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: elevator travel |
Lawrence Williams and group,
After about two years of flying with no elevator travel stops, I installed
stops on the torque tube in the rear cockpit to restrict elevator travel
to 32 degrees up and 25 degrees down. This was close to thirty years
ago and the arrangement has been entirely satisfactory ever since.
I agree that one never comes close to using all the travel available,
even with the stops. The down stop prevents the elevators from hanging
in the grass when the a/c is at rest and slackening of the cables at the
extremes of travel is hardly noticeable.
Pietenpol elevators are very effective and don't need to move much,
even at low speeds. I used greater up travel because I thought it might
be necessary to hold the tail down during runup with my C 85, but this
is likely not the case and 25 degrees both ways may be OK.
Just my two cents worth.
Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge Ply Scarf |
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
Hi Kirk
I used 1/16 plywood on a 3 piece wing & scarfed them together.
Went from the back of the front spar to the D section.
I notched the D section 1/16 " to make a neat transition.
Dale Mpls,
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge Ply Scarf |
Dale,
Did the scarfing make it difficult to bend around the radius? Did you
get your ply here in town?
Kirk
>
>Hi Kirk
>I used 1/16 plywood on a 3 piece wing & scarfed them together.
>Went from the back of the front spar to the D section.
>I notched the D section 1/16 " to make a neat transition.
>Dale Mpls,
>
>
--
Kirk Huizenga and Bryan Eastep's Aircamper and Corvair Project
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList.cfm?Menu=PhotoGallery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | raymond smith <badge784k(at)yahoo.com> |
do not archieve
Skip,
I guess I'll stop work on my new cardboard scarfing
machine modeled after the Vic Boyce plywood scarfer.
Herbie
http://finance.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | "if it works, it's probably fine" |
Larry,
I enjoyed your discussion of elevator travel! To me, you summed up the whole
philosophy of Pietenpol design and construction: "if it works, it's probably
fine". Give me real-world experience over theory anytime!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
(Back on the Piet list)
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | "if it works, it's probably fine" |
Hey gary good to have you back!!
Still have the tailwheel almost done!!
chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
Meadows
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "if it works, it's probably fine"
Larry,
I enjoyed your discussion of elevator travel! To me, you summed up the whole
philosophy of Pietenpol design and construction: "if it works, it's probably
fine". Give me real-world experience over theory anytime!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
(Back on the Piet list)
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "if it works, it's probably fine" |
Gary,
Good to see your name back in the list.
walt
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "if it works, it's probably fine"
>
>
> Larry,
>
> I enjoyed your discussion of elevator travel! To me, you summed up the
whole
> philosophy of Pietenpol design and construction: "if it works, it's
probably
> fine". Give me real-world experience over theory anytime!
>
> Gary Meadows
> Spring, TX
> (Back on the Piet list)
>
>
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge Ply Scarf |
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
Kirk
I saw no difference in bending the Mahogany plywood at the scarfed joint.
The scarfed joint was centered
over a rib.
I made extra scarfed plywood then cut them in 1/2 x 3/4 inch and glued
them to the
top of the rib. This brought 1/16 " down to the rib . So the fabric lays
down on the
rib. Hope this makes sense.
Dale
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge Ply Scarf |
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
Kirk
I forgot the rest of the question.
Bought the plywood from a fellow worked. The project died.
Got a good deal 4 sheets 4x8 for 50 bucks . Still in AS&S box unopened,
Dale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Leading Edge Ply Scarf |
Dale,
I didn't know you got the wood that way. Who from?
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of D.Dale
Johnson
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading Edge Ply Scarf
Kirk
I forgot the rest of the question.
Bought the plywood from a fellow worked. The project died.
Got a good deal 4 sheets 4x8 for 50 bucks . Still in AS&S box unopened,
Dale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "vickie and steve" <vic_bs(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Smilin Jack Fly in Titusville,Fla. |
FYI --- Fly In at dunn airpark(x21) on Sept 21, 2002--EAA chapter
866,Titusville,Florida--Pietenpols and all aircraft are welcome---food
and drinks available. Fun-Fun-Fun
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
"taylorcraft"
| Subject: | A series and C series Continental |
Doug,
You really know how to ask simple questions! Sorry to be tardy in getting
back to you but here is the first installment of the lineup as I see it:
The A-40 is not part of the A series as it is a different design altogether
and discussion of it will not be had here. See Chet Peek's new book "Flying
with Forty Horses".
All (the other) A series are 171 cu in displacement 4-cylinder with 3-7/8"
bores and 3-5/8" stroke. The number after the dash is the rated horsepower:
either 50, 65, 75, or 80. There is an obscure hybrid variant of the A
series called the A-100 and that will be discussed at the end of the series.
It is a favorite of mine.
First, the A-50 series:
The A-50 series dash numbers range from the -1 consecutively to the -9.
Some A series have up exhaust, meaning the intake port is on the bottom of
the cylinder and the exhaust port is on the top of the cylinder. Up exhaust
engines include the A-50-1, -2, -3, -4, -5, and -6. The A-50-7, -8, and -9
utilize a cylinder with a down exhaust. Some of the cylinders have only one
spark plug hole, on top, with a cast boss where one could concievably add
the lower hole. These are used on the A-50-1, -4, and -7 and, obviously,
these engines only have one centrally mounted magneto driven directly by
splines machined into the rear of the crankshaft. This makes this
crankshaft very unique to the original A-50 series. This crankshaft equips
my very orignal A-50-5 that utilizes dual mags, even though the splines are
not used to drive anything. The A-50-2, -3, -5, -6, -8, -9 series all have
two spark plugs per cylinder and use dual magnetos. The dual magnetos are
driven off of a gear bolted to the back of the crankshaft so these mags turn
the other way from the single mag setup. So some up exhaust cylinders have
one plug and other up exhaust cylinders use two. Same for the down exhaust
cylinders. Single ignition models were not allowed to be certified after
11/7/41.
The intake elbows used on up exhaust engines have a round cross section
going to a round cross section. The intake elbows used on down exhaust
engines have a square cross section going to a round cross section.
Magnetos are generally the SF-4L or AM-4 (with left hand rotation) for the
single mag and SF-4R or AM-4 (with right hand rotation) for the dual mag
models. However, the A-50-2 is certified only with Dual Bendix Scintilla
WL-4 mags or an Autolite IGW battery ignition (like the point system on
your 1959 El Camino). In addition to the SF-4R and AM-4, the A-50-8 and -9
can also use dual Case 4-CAMA mags. Magneto timing varies from model to
model anywhere from 24 to 28 degress BTDC with some timing different between
left and right mags. Impulse equipped magnetos and what they fit will be
discussed later.
The A-50 series engines utilize a 5.4:1 "low" compression ratio and utilize
a different piston from the other horsepower engines because of this.
Holding them in my hands, it appears to be the same casting as certain A-65
pistons except that the flat top is machined a little lower. The low
compression A-50 series makes its rated power at a low 1900 RPM but yet
usually uses a really large prop. The prop for my Aeronca 50-C is a 76-51.
Big diameter and high pitch. What? On a 50 hp engine? Compare this to a
72-42 used on an A-65. Big diameter equals really big disc. Think how a 50
hp helicopter can lift up vertically with a big prop turning really
slowly... Don't laugh at a 50 hp continental...One famous modestly modified
Aeronca 50-C flown by Johnny Jones flew from Burbank to NYC over
Thanksgiving weekend in 1938 NONSTOP and landed with enough fuel to go 700
more miles!! I would like to recreate this flight one day!!
Some of the A-50 engines utilize a "dry" sump crankcase/accessory case combo
utilizing a remote oil tank. These are the A-50-1, -2, -3. The accessory
cases I have for these are both of magnesium and I do not know if any where
ever available in aluminum. The A-50-4, -5, -6, -7, -8, and -9
crankcase/accessory case combo all utilize a 4-1/2 qt. kidney "wet" sump.
Obviously, a "dry" sump crankcase cannot be used with a "wet" sump accessory
case and vise versa.
A-50 series cases made prior to serial number 115395 (around late 1939) use
a "hard mount" meaning that, if I remember right, four 5/16" bolts hold the
engine to the motor mount without any rubber vibration damping. It was
expected that the airframe designers would make motor mounts that would
incorporate rubber suspension. This was rarely the case, however, and
subsequent serial numbers incorporated the conical rubber mount bosses that
we see most prevalent today.
A-50 series engines generally are equipped with Bendix-Stromberg NA-S3,
NA-S3A1 (the A1 meaning mixture control equipped), or Marvel-Schebler
MA-3-PA carburetors. 1-1/4" venturis on the former and 1-7/32" on the
latter. However, the A-50-4J, -5J, -6J, -7J, -8J, -9J models use a High
Fuel Injector Model A in place of the carb, hence the J suffix. All other
aspects of these engines remain the same.
The unique crankcase, accessory case, and gear train on the
A-50-6, -6J, -9, -9J allow the use of either an Eclipse Type 625 or E-80
electric starter or a Mechanical Hummer X starter. The accesory case has
the magnetos mounted horizontally, one left and one right with the "tops" of
the mags pointing at 3 and 9 o'clock. Non-starter dual mag equipped
accessory cases mount the mags almost vertical, one left and one right with
the "tops" of the mags pointing at 11:30 and 12:30 o'clock. Conversion is
difficult, if not impossible, because the 20 or so parts you need are
scarce. If you want these features, you really have find an engine already
with them.
Some of the crankcases are cast and machined to accept an AC diapghram fuel
pump just like the one on your 1959 Chevy El Camino. It runs off an
eccentric bolted to the front of the camshaft. I am unsure if a fuel
injected engine can be equipped with a fuel pump, though, because the fuel
injector pump runs off of a gear that mounts to the smae part of the
camshaft. The fuel pump equipped models were intended for use in low wing
aircraft that had wing tanks, like the Ercoupe.
All A-50 series crankshafts had an SAE No. 0 tapered output shaft and
utilized a separate hub and key for attachment of the propeller. I have an
original early A-50-5 and it is very apparent that the innards are of
lighter wieght than later versions of the A series. The crankshaft has well
drilled crankpins. The gears have lightening holes drilled in them. The
connecting rods are a slimmer design. Nothing wrong with all this. Just an
observation. I would not be using these lighter components to build up a 65
or higher HP engine, though. So you have to know what you have.
"Dry" wieghts range form 160 to 176 lbs.
There are other comments to be made about the A-50 series but they will wait
until discussion of each of the A series engines is complete.
The A-65 is for next week.
chris bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: TWINBOOM [mailto:TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A series, or C series Continental ??
Chris,
When I see manuals for these engines on E-Bay or wherever, they are
always lsted as a "C", or an "A" series. I was just wondering what the
difference was between the two. Here is a copy of what I've seen on the Net,
A-50,A-65,A75,A-80
C-75, C85, C90, 0-200
Just curious if one is better then the other.
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
ArrowBear Lake Ca.
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
Mike,
Keep working on the scarfer. Sandpaper like Vic's may get loaded up quickly
with cardboard, you may have to use a knife or chisel ;)
Skip
-----Original Message-----
From: raymond smith [mailto:badge784k(at)yahoo.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edges
do not archieve
Skip,
I guess I'll stop work on my new cardboard scarfing
machine modeled after the Vic Boyce plywood scarfer.
Herbie
http://finance.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Any Pietenpol'ers planning to be at the EAA Southwest Regional Fly-In
(SWRFI) in Abilene on Sept. 27-29?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brants" <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
I've completed the major fuselage structure and will soon be starting to
put in the seat "framing", instrument panel areas and the turtledeck...
I am wondering if anyone has a picture of the turtledeck at the point
where it comes together near the tail. I'm not really clear on what
that's supposed to look like. I went to see Del Magsam's project and I
of course was going to look at that specifically and forgot to do so.
I'm sure people have done a few different things in this area.
If I remember correctly, the size of stringers Del used was 1 1/4" x
1/4" - is that right Del? This is a dimension I haven't found on the
plans.
Thanks all,
Tom Brant, MPLS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
Here are a few pictures. There are a bunch on the site, you may have to hunt
some.
Richard deCosta's plane.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=story-68.jpg&Pho
toID=715
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=oct5.2000_overal
l.jpg&PhotoID=721
Kirk Huizenga
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=19.jpg&PhotoID=7
35
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=5.jpg&PhotoID=75
0
Under my section of the photo gallery I have a bunch of Pietenpol pictures I
gathered on the web over time. You can peruse them. Some great stuff there.
-Gary
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brants
> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 12:18 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: turtledeck
>
>
> I've completed the major fuselage structure and will soon be starting to
> put in the seat "framing", instrument panel areas and the turtledeck...
> I am wondering if anyone has a picture of the turtledeck at the point
> where it comes together near the tail. I'm not really clear on what
> that's supposed to look like. I went to see Del Magsam's project and I
> of course was going to look at that specifically and forgot to do so.
> I'm sure people have done a few different things in this area.
>
> If I remember correctly, the size of stringers Del used was 1 1/4" x
> 1/4" - is that right Del? This is a dimension I haven't found on the
> plans.
>
> Thanks all,
>
> Tom Brant, MPLS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I've completed the major fuselage structure and will soon be starting
to
put in the seat "framing", instrument panel areas and the
turtledeck...
I am wondering if anyone has a picture of the turtledeck at the point
where it comes together near the tail. I'm not really clear on what
that's supposed to look like. I went to see Del Magsam's project and
I
of course was going to look at that specifically and forgot to do so.
I'm sure people have done a few different things in this area.
If I remember correctly, the size of stringers Del used was 1 1/4" x
1/4" - is that right Del? This is a dimension I haven't found on the
plans.
Thanks all,
Tom Brant, MPLS
________________________________________________________________
A suggestion;
Two methods to attach the stringers to the formers:
1) notch the formers or:
2) no sweat method, lay the stringers on the formers, line them
up,then
notch individual pieces of ply, set them on the stringers, & glue them
to the formers.
The stringers terminate at the last former.
Mike B ( no more Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Tom,
There is a large point I would like to give you at this stage of
construction. Take it or leave it. On the forward section of the T/D is 1/8
plywood covering the stringers and scalloped. While practicing climbing into
my Piet I had to rest my big buttock on this rounded structure and it went
craack. Sure enough it split down the stringers. There is no way I can
ingress and egress my Piet without sitting on this form. Soooooooooooooo I
took a piece of 1/16 mahogany to cover it all, shaped it, drilled uddles of
holes, spread lots of weldwood, applied about 4 dozen clecos and I have a
strong enough surface to support any butt large enough to wiggle in the
cockpit. This is an alteration to the plans but is probably one of the best I
made in the entire structure.
Take it or leave it
Corky in La waiting for the Fedman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brants" <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
am I to understand you covered the turtledeck with plywood rather than
covering with fabric? Sounds like a decent enough idea to me. I like the
idea about sitting on the turtledeck as I'm not the most flexible of all
people.
Thanks for the tip - will keep in mind.
Tom B.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turtledeck
>
> Tom,
> There is a large point I would like to give you at this stage of
> construction. Take it or leave it. On the forward section of the T/D is
1/8
> plywood covering the stringers and scalloped. While practicing climbing
into
> my Piet I had to rest my big buttock on this rounded structure and it went
> craack. Sure enough it split down the stringers. There is no way I can
> ingress and egress my Piet without sitting on this form. Soooooooooooooo I
> took a piece of 1/16 mahogany to cover it all, shaped it, drilled uddles
of
> holes, spread lots of weldwood, applied about 4 dozen clecos and I have a
> strong enough surface to support any butt large enough to wiggle in the
> cockpit. This is an alteration to the plans but is probably one of the
best I
> made in the entire structure.
> Take it or leave it
> Corky in La waiting for the Fedman
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
To clear it up. It is 1/8 birch, 1/16 mah, fabric and finishes. I guess you
could call it sandwich construction. Anyway mine is extremely strong.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Tom
If you want to look at mine, its at Crystal airport and I will be working
there this weekend.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brants" <tmbrant(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: turtledeck
>
> I've completed the major fuselage structure and will soon be starting to
> put in the seat "framing", instrument panel areas and the turtledeck...
> I am wondering if anyone has a picture of the turtledeck at the point
> where it comes together near the tail. I'm not really clear on what
> that's supposed to look like. I went to see Del Magsam's project and I
> of course was going to look at that specifically and forgot to do so.
> I'm sure people have done a few different things in this area.
>
> If I remember correctly, the size of stringers Del used was 1 1/4" x
> 1/4" - is that right Del? This is a dimension I haven't found on the
> plans.
>
> Thanks all,
>
> Tom Brant, MPLS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Telephone number |
Pieters,
I need to call McCauley Propeller Co. Do any of you have their number?
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Telephone number |
Why Not do a Google Search and get...
Address: McCauley Propeller Systems
3535 McCauley Drive
Vandalia, OH 45377
Phone: 937.890.5246
Fax: 937.890.6001
Toll-free Sales: 800.621.PROP (800.621.7767)
Toll-free Tech Spt: 877.PROPHELP (877.776.7435)
Sales: sales(at)mccauley.textron.com
Support: productsupport(at)mccauley.textron.com
Warranty info: warranty(at)mccauley.textron.com
Jobs: careers(at)mccauley.textron.com
General info: info(at)mccauley.textron.com
Website: webmaster(at)mccauley.textron.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Telephone number
>
> Pieters,
> I need to call McCauley Propeller Co. Do any of you have their number?
> Corky in La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | catdesigns(at)juno.com |
Can anyone tell me how to identify what size a used turn buckle is? Do they have
grade-stamp markers on them like bolts do? How about an AN# on them? Are
used turn buckles safe?
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tommy & Carolyn" <TommyandCarolyn(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | 4th Annual Cajun Wings & Wheels Fly-in & Camp-out |
Subject: 4th Annual Cajun Wings & Wheels Fly-in & Camp-out
WHEN: September 27, 28 & 29
WHERE: Allen Parish Airport Oakdale, Louisiana
L42 N30-45-19 W92-41-30
WHO: Cenla Escadrille EAA Chapter 614 & the
Southwest Louisiana Ultralight Aircraft Club
FEATURES: Good food, Cajun music & much more, including
free shuttle service to Louisiana's premier
resort
casino, the Grand Casino Caushatta.
FEES: Free
FMI: Joel Johnson, Airport Manager
318-215-0090 or 337-639-4328
airport1(at)centurytel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
Chris,
The only way I know how to tell them apart is to measure them. Look in the
Aircraft Spruce catalog to see the dimensions and just measure the ones you
have to see what size they are.
Used turnbuckles should be safe as long as they don't show signs of being
damaged. Metal fatigue shouldn't be a problem since they are loaded only in
tension, never going through a reversing load (fatigue is caused by loading
which goes from tension to compression for millions of repetitive cycles.
If it never goes from tension to compression, it can't fatigue). If the
threads are stripped, pass on them.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
Can anyone tell me how to identify what size a used turn buckle is? Do they
have grade-stamp markers on them like bolts do? How about an AN# on them?
Are used turn buckles safe?
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
On taxi, horsepower is seldom a match for a tie-down chain left tied.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Engelkenjohn <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
When gluing up the fuselage, do you glue in the 1" tailpost and the
diagonal strut which goes from the tailpost to the top of the next
forward station and then saw the 1" post and the end of the diagonal
strut vertically when you pull the sides together or do you leave the
tail post and the strut out until you pull the ends together and mark
and saw them and at that time cut in the tail post.?
I hope everyone else can understand this question, as it is as
clear as mud to me.
Dennis Engelkenjohn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | One of our guys does it again! |
Many of us know Bill Rewey of Verona Wisconsin, builder of NX17WR
(Navy-style markings), his well-used Pietenpol. Bill often conducts the
Pietenpol forum at Sun'n'Fun and at AirVenture. He has flown his Piet from
Wisconsin to Sun'n'Fun a number of times, which qualifies him for the Iron
Butt Award.
Well, in the September 2002 Sport Aviation magazine, on page 103 - 105,
Bill has the plans for a "Heavy Lifting" hoist that any Piet builder can
make out of lumber (our favorite working material!). As usual, Bill does
not need all the sophistication of a $500 hoist. He shows you how to build
a simple engine hoist that works at a minimum cost and minimum fuss.
By coincidence, when my Fall 2002 Young Eagle Flight Leader News arrived,
here on page 2 is an article about Bill Rewey as a Young Eagle Flight
Leader, with some eight kids in front of his Piet. They had just had their
Young Eagle rides. Flying kids in a Bonanza or a Cherokee is great, but
can you imagine the excitement among the kids and their parents when they
have had their first real small airplane ride in an open cockpit 1929 era
vintage Pietenpol? As usual, Bill is just out there doing what he does
best - just having a lot of fun with his Piet and sharing his knowledge
with others in his own quiet way.
Bravo, Bill!
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: One of our guys does it again! |
Great story Doc!!
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc Mosher" <docshop(at)tds.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: One of our guys does it again!
>
> Many of us know Bill Rewey of Verona Wisconsin, builder of NX17WR
> (Navy-style markings), his well-used Pietenpol. Bill often conducts the
> Pietenpol forum at Sun'n'Fun and at AirVenture. He has flown his Piet
from
> Wisconsin to Sun'n'Fun a number of times, which qualifies him for the Iron
> Butt Award.
>
> Well, in the September 2002 Sport Aviation magazine, on page 103 - 105,
> Bill has the plans for a "Heavy Lifting" hoist that any Piet builder can
> make out of lumber (our favorite working material!). As usual, Bill does
> not need all the sophistication of a $500 hoist. He shows you how to
build
> a simple engine hoist that works at a minimum cost and minimum fuss.
>
> By coincidence, when my Fall 2002 Young Eagle Flight Leader News arrived,
> here on page 2 is an article about Bill Rewey as a Young Eagle Flight
> Leader, with some eight kids in front of his Piet. They had just had
their
> Young Eagle rides. Flying kids in a Bonanza or a Cherokee is great, but
> can you imagine the excitement among the kids and their parents when they
> have had their first real small airplane ride in an open cockpit 1929 era
> vintage Pietenpol? As usual, Bill is just out there doing what he does
> best - just having a lot of fun with his Piet and sharing his knowledge
> with others in his own quiet way.
>
> Bravo, Bill!
>
> Doc Mosher
> Oshkosh USA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bill Rewey's hoist |
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
Doc,
Bill Rewey does not have e-mail, so I printed out your message and am
giving it to him today. We will be attending the funeral of one of our
club members, and good friend, Tom Rebholz. Tom had an engine failure in
his Rans just after take off and spun in. We don't know for sure yet
what happened, but it looks like he may have tried to return to the field
rather than landing in the corn. Like I said, we don't know if this was
the case, but so many die trying to save their beautiful planes.
Dick Hartwig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Availability |
Went to Page Field (Ft. Myers, FL) to get some 100LL for my engine which
I just re-mounted on the GN-1. Since before 9-11-01 they wouldn't sell
avgas unless it was pumped into an airplane. Got around that last time
because they have a self-serve (Credit Card) pump inside the fenced area
but not monitored. Yesterday the self-serve pump was out of order and
under no circumstances would they sell me any gas. That goes for the
air-boat drivers and the hot-rodders too. Is this the norm around the
country? Hard to believe.
DickG.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Availability |
Dick,
I bought 100LL at a bulk station about a mile from the airport for $1.69 per.
Also unleaded reg for my car for 1.21. Of course it's against the law or
airport rules to refuel your plane on the airport. Can't even wash or hose
off your plane because of the environmentalists. All these bastards come out
of the cracks when there is no war or drafts it seems. I'm about ready to
blow my top. In the meantime 41CC 's tank is full.
Keep in touch.
Our best to your bride
Corky and Isabelle in La beginning to finish our 1927 Dodge Station Wagon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Claude Corbett ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Claude Corbett
Subject: Photos of NX41CC
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Isablcorky@aol.com.09.08.2002/index.html
--------------------------------------------
o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
o Main Photo Share Index:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Corky, Just took a look at the photos of your ship.What a great looking
airplane.
Congrats on your Piet.
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | [ Claude Corbett ] : New Email List Photo Share |
Available!
Nice work Corky. She looks great. -Gary
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Email
> List Photo Shares
> Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 1:52 PM
> To: Email List Photo Shares
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: [ Claude Corbett ] : New Email List Photo Share
> Available!
>
>
>
>
>
> A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>
> Poster: Claude Corbett
>
>
> Subject: Photos of NX41CC
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Isablcorky@aol.com.09.08.2002/
> index.html
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
>
> Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
> emailing the files to:
>
> pictures(at)matronics.com
>
> Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
> Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
>
> o Main Photo Share Index:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Corky,
Yes it is!!
Corky, I noticed the peg for getting in. How does that work? I'm still
uncertain about getting in, and wondering if I could install something like
you have.
Bringing it to the airport next weekend , so it's getting close.
Do you have any pics of the foot peg? close ups of the outside or inside?
Or at least a description.
Thanks,
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nice
>
> Corky, Just took a look at the photos of your ship.What a great looking
> airplane.
> Congrats on your Piet.
> Carl
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
I'll try to describe the best I remember. It's a 5/8 4130 tube 6 in outside
and about8 or 9 inside. It rests on the top of the lower longeron at the
location of the ash member at the base of the pilots seat front. In order for
it to be level you must put in some 1/2 in spacers between the ash and the
tube. I drilled the tube ( 3/16) in two places, at the end and center. Then
drilled matching holes in the ash. Fitted the bolts, removed them and welded
the bolt heads to a piece of 4130 X .080. Installed the bolts plate from the
bottom, installed the 1/2 inch spacers on the bolts then put the bolts thru
the tubes, washered each before a self locking nut. I also welded two washers
for the outside portion so the foot would not slip off or slip toward and
damage the fabric.
I hope this makes sense. I wish I had installed it farther to the rear but
it's OK as it is. With the wing flop and this pipe step I have no trouble
entering the cockpit since I reinforced the turtledeck so it can support my
butt and weight. Mail me back if this is still unclear.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuselage tail |
| From: | catdesigns(at)juno.com |
Dennis you can do it both ways. I glued in the tail post and diagonal
then shaved/sanded them down to 1" before gluing the tail post sides
together. I have heard that it is easier to leave out the tail post and
add it after gluing the sides together. Not hard either way just takes
time. And we all have a bunch of extra time just lying around don't we.
I liked having the tail post in because it held the fuselage sides in the
proper shape.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
writes:
>
>
> When gluing up the fuselage, do you glue in the 1" tailpost and the
> diagonal strut which goes from the tailpost to the top of the next
> forward station and then saw the 1" post and the end of the
> diagonal
> strut vertically when you pull the sides together or do you leave
> the
> tail post and the strut out until you pull the ends together and
> mark
> and saw them and at that time cut in the tail post.?
> I hope everyone else can understand this question, as it is as
> clear as mud to me.
> Dennis Engelkenjohn
>
>
>
>
> messages.
>
> ==========================================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Thanks Corky,
I'll see if it makes sense when I look at the plane tomorrow.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nice
>
> I'll try to describe the best I remember. It's a 5/8 4130 tube 6 in
outside
> and about8 or 9 inside. It rests on the top of the lower longeron at the
> location of the ash member at the base of the pilots seat front. In order
for
> it to be level you must put in some 1/2 in spacers between the ash and the
> tube. I drilled the tube ( 3/16) in two places, at the end and center.
Then
> drilled matching holes in the ash. Fitted the bolts, removed them and
welded
> the bolt heads to a piece of 4130 X .080. Installed the bolts plate from
the
> bottom, installed the 1/2 inch spacers on the bolts then put the bolts
thru
> the tubes, washered each before a self locking nut. I also welded two
washers
> for the outside portion so the foot would not slip off or slip toward and
> damage the fabric.
> I hope this makes sense. I wish I had installed it farther to the rear but
> it's OK as it is. With the wing flop and this pipe step I have no trouble
> entering the cockpit since I reinforced the turtledeck so it can support
my
> butt and weight. Mail me back if this is still unclear.
> Corky in La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Availability |
| From: | Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
on 9/8/02 9:06, Isablcorky(at)aol.com at Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Can't even wash or hose off your plane because of the environmentalists. All
these bastards come out of the cracks when there is no war or drafts it
seems. I'm about ready to blow my top.
>
> Corky
>
I kind of resent that, Corky. I spent eight years in the Marine Corps
during the war in Viet Nam; I beat the draft by planting myself on the
Marine recruiter's desk until he signed me up. I wound up with 2 years in
the infantry, then a commission and 750 hours of F-4 time before they got
tired of me.
I grew up on a small ranch in California that had the sweetest ground water
this side of Heaven until a factory a couple of miles away leached fuel and
cleaning solvent into the aquifer. My folks' stock started getting sick and
their feed crops got poor. Dad couldn't afford an outside water source and
they lived in a dry part of a dry state.
My folks went broke on the place and had to move to town because there
weren't any environmentalists around to make people obey the law. Their
experience has shaped my opinions on the subject, somewhat.
I never dodged the draft and my own son spent six years in Marine Force
Recon, part of which was during the Gulf war. My parents were married
before I was conceived, I am a Piet builder, a veteran in a long and
continuing family history of veterans, a flag-waver to beat them all, AND I
am an environmentalist lawyer.
You are certainly free to blow your top, Corky, just make sure you have
correctly identified your targets. Maybe you can hit them with
environmentally friendly flour bombs from that beautiful bird of yours.
Mike Hardaway
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/07/02 |
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
I have some fork ends for turnbuckles that appear to be 7/32 X 28 thread.
In other words they won't fit into a 3/16 X 32 barrel and they slide
right through a 1/4 XI. B & B and AS&S don't have barrels to fit. Has
anyone else heard of this size or where I can get them.
Dick Hartwig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/07/02 |
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
I have some fork ends for turnbuckles that appear to be 7/32 X 28 thread.
In other words they won't fit into a 3/16 X 32 barrel and they slide
right through a 1/4 X 28. B & B and AS&S don't have barrels to fit. Has
anyone else heard of this size or where I can get them.
Dick Hartwig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/07/02 |
Maybe they are metric?
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: <rhartwig11(at)juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/07/02
>
> I have some fork ends for turnbuckles that appear to be 7/32 X 28 thread.
> In other words they won't fit into a 3/16 X 32 barrel and they slide
> right through a 1/4 X 28. B & B and AS&S don't have barrels to fit. Has
> anyone else heard of this size or where I can get them.
> Dick Hartwig
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/07/02 |
Sound like they are Number 12-24 which probably are old WW2 surplus. They
are not very common anymore. The body size was 0.216 Ran across this with an
old Funk.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: <rhartwig11(at)juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/07/02
>
> I have some fork ends for turnbuckles that appear to be 7/32 X 28 thread.
> In other words they won't fit into a 3/16 X 32 barrel and they slide
> right through a 1/4 XI. B & B and AS&S don't have barrels to fit. Has
> anyone else heard of this size or where I can get them.
> Dick Hartwig
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/07/02 |
Dick,
These are 12-28 thread and are an ancient AN spec. If you notice both the
current -22 and the -32 turnbuckles use the 1/4-28 thread. The 12-28 was
the old -22 (2200 lb strength) but since industry has pretty much abandoned
the 12-28, the 1/4-28 was the next size up with suitable strength to handle
this load. It is practically impossible to get even the cutting tools to
make anything 12-28. especially in LH thread.
Since I have a lathe and can make custom barrels, I will offer to take them
off of your hands for a reasonable price. How many do you have, what
length--shorts or longs?
Chris Bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bert
Conoly
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs -
09/07/02
Maybe they are metric?
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: <rhartwig11(at)juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/07/02
>
> I have some fork ends for turnbuckles that appear to be 7/32 X 28 thread.
> In other words they won't fit into a 3/16 X 32 barrel and they slide
> right through a 1/4 X 28. B & B and AS&S don't have barrels to fit. Has
> anyone else heard of this size or where I can get them.
> Dick Hartwig
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | more on the turnbuckle parts |
Cy and Dick,
The standard was adopted by Army-Navy on November 1, 1924. Numbering was
different: AN44 through AN50: R- right hand thread, L- left hand thread, S-
short Barrel, L- long barrel, 44- cable eye, 45- fork, 46- pin eye, 47-
barrel, 48- turnbuckle ass'y with two cable eyes, 49-turnbuckle ass'y with
cable eye and fork, 50- turnbuckle ass'y with cable eye and pin eye. Thus
AN-44-46LL is a Army-Navy standard long cable eye with a LH thread for a
cable strength of 4600 lbs.
Indeed a .216 major diameter and a number 12. If there is a number 2 and a
number 4 and a number 6 and number 8 and a number 10, then why not a number
12?
I also looked up the TPI and it is -28 not -24 per June 1928 Journal of the
SAE, Vol XXII, No. 6 page 707.
chris bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
rhartwig11(at)juno.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/07/02
I have some fork ends for turnbuckles that appear to be 7/32 X 28 thread.
In other words they won't fit into a 3/16 X 32 barrel and they slide
right through a 1/4 XI. B & B and AS&S don't have barrels to fit. Has
anyone else heard of this size or where I can get them.
Dick Hartwig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Any ideas on the source of this spruce? |
I just bought some spruce from an RV6 builder in my local EAA chapter
(he had already used several pieces to replace some trim around his
hanger.....ARGHHH!!!!!) and I would like to know a little more about
what I bought (for $.10 on the dollar,as it turns out).
Here are some pictures of some of it with some kind of stamp that maybe
someone will recognize:
http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i67b0de21b30a6445e43f
Not a big deal but if anyone has any idea where this wood may have come
from I wood (oops, would) like to hear your thoughts. Just a little
curious. Actually, it's pretty dark but it's been around for a while
and apparently NOT well taken care of but there are no cracks or
stress/bending fractures.
Thanks!
Jim in Plano TX.......
(ribs are finished, elevators are done (well, there's a little more
sanding and smoothing but the main parts are done.....) and most of the
horiz stab is cut and ready to join.........) Ribs and elevs are doug
fir but after the recent spruce purchase I'm trying to do as much as
possible in the tail area with the lighter spruce (CG
issues...)......the stab will be the first "non-doug fir" part.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | [ Claude Corbett ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
Beautiful job, Corky! Hopefully I'll be right there with you in about a
year.
Jack
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Claude Corbett
Subject: Photos of NX41CC
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Isablcorky@aol.com.09.08.2002/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Any ideas on the source of this spruce? |
Jim, Recheck your link for your site. Comes up incomplete. Lot of letters
there, you may have missed one.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Any ideas on the source of this spruce?
>
> I just bought some spruce from an RV6 builder in my local EAA chapter
> (he had already used several pieces to replace some trim around his
> hanger.....ARGHHH!!!!!) and I would like to know a little more about
> what I bought (for $.10 on the dollar,as it turns out).
>
> Here are some pictures of some of it with some kind of stamp that maybe
> someone will recognize:
>
> http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i67b0de21b30a6445e43f
>
> Not a big deal but if anyone has any idea where this wood may have come
> from I wood (oops, would) like to hear your thoughts. Just a little
> curious. Actually, it's pretty dark but it's been around for a while
> and apparently NOT well taken care of but there are no cracks or
> stress/bending fractures.
>
> Thanks!
> Jim in Plano TX.......
> (ribs are finished, elevators are done (well, there's a little more
> sanding and smoothing but the main parts are done.....) and most of the
> horiz stab is cut and ready to join.........) Ribs and elevs are doug
> fir but after the recent spruce purchase I'm trying to do as much as
> possible in the tail area with the lighter spruce (CG
> issues...)......the stab will be the first "non-doug fir" part.....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage tail |
Glue in the tailpost and diagonal on each fuselage side. Then trim to
size when you pull the halves together.
Greg Cardinal
>>> wingding(at)usmo.com 09/07/02 10:03PM >>>
When gluing up the fuselage, do you glue in the 1" tailpost and the
diagonal strut which goes from the tailpost to the top of the next
forward station and then saw the 1" post and the end of the diagonal
strut vertically when you pull the sides together or do you leave the
tail post and the strut out until you pull the ends together and mark
and saw them and at that time cut in the tail post.?
I hope everyone else can understand this question, as it is as
clear as mud to me.
Dennis Engelkenjohn
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edwin Johnson <elj(at)shreve.net> |
| Subject: | Environmentalists |
Mike,
I know this is not an appropriate topic and off subject for this group,
but since I do live in Shreveport I must tell you that this is 'small town
politics' when it comes to the DTN airport here. In other words, these
rules have _much_ less to do with the environment and a lot more to do
with internal politics. :) I also will refrain from getting on my soapbox
with regard to the environment and big businesses, but am sure you and I
are much in agreement.
And Corky's plane is beautiful!
...Edwin
>
> on 9/8/02 9:06, Isablcorky(at)aol.com at Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Can't even wash or hose off your plane because of the environmentalists. All
> I kind of resent that, Corky. I spent eight years in the Marine Corps
~~
> continuing family history of veterans, a flag-waver to beat them all, AND I
> am an environmentalist lawyer.
>
> Mike Hardaway
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Edwin Johnson ....... elj(at)shreve.net ~
~ http://www.shreve.net/~elj ~
~ ~
~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the ~
~ earth with your eyes turned skyward, ~
~ for there you have been, there you long ~
~ to return." -- da Vinci ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: more on the turnbuckle parts |
Sorry, I quoted NC instead of NF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: more on the turnbuckle parts
>
> Cy and Dick,
>
> The standard was adopted by Army-Navy on November 1, 1924. Numbering was
> different: AN44 through AN50: R- right hand thread, L- left hand thread,
S-
> short Barrel, L- long barrel, 44- cable eye, 45- fork, 46- pin eye, 47-
> barrel, 48- turnbuckle ass'y with two cable eyes, 49-turnbuckle ass'y with
> cable eye and fork, 50- turnbuckle ass'y with cable eye and pin eye. Thus
> AN-44-46LL is a Army-Navy standard long cable eye with a LH thread for a
> cable strength of 4600 lbs.
>
> Indeed a .216 major diameter and a number 12. If there is a number 2 and
a
> number 4 and a number 6 and number 8 and a number 10, then why not a
number
> 12?
>
> I also looked up the TPI and it is -28 not -24 per June 1928 Journal of
the
> SAE, Vol XXII, No. 6 page 707.
>
> chris bobka
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> rhartwig11(at)juno.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/07/02
>
>
> I have some fork ends for turnbuckles that appear to be 7/32 X 28 thread.
> In other words they won't fit into a 3/16 X 32 barrel and they slide
> right through a 1/4 XI. B & B and AS&S don't have barrels to fit. Has
> anyone else heard of this size or where I can get them.
> Dick Hartwig
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Spruce source question....corrected link.... |
I just love it how cut and paste ISN'T always cut and paste!! :-)
Maybe this will work better:
http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b30a6445e43f
Thanks!
I just bought some spruce from an RV6 builder in my local EAA chapter
(he had already used several pieces to replace some trim around his
hanger.....ARGHHH!!!!!) and I would like to know a little more about
what I bought (for $.10 on the dollar,as it turns out).
Here are some pictures of some of it with some kind of stamp that maybe
someone will recognize:
http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b30a6445e43f
Not a big deal but if anyone has any idea where this wood may have come
from I wood (oops, would) like to hear your thoughts. Just a little
curious. Actually, it's pretty dark but it's been around for a while
and apparently NOT well taken care of but there are no cracks or
stress/bending fractures.
Thanks!
Jim in Plano TX.......
(ribs are finished, elevators are done (well, there's a little more
sanding and smoothing but the main parts are done.....) and most of the
horiz stab is cut and ready to join.........) Ribs and elevs are doug
fir but after the recent spruce purchase I'm trying to do as much as
possible in the tail area with the lighter spruce (CG
issues...)......the stab will be the first "non-doug fir" part.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Engelkenjohn <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
What size turnbuckles are people using?
The plans call for 325SF and 326SF turnbuckles, Wicks sells an
AN130 in various sizes and B&B wants to know what size I need?
What thread size and length are most people using?
Dennis Engelkenjohn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: more on the turnbuckle parts |
You guys amaze me. Someone comes up with a 60 to 70 year old piece of a
turnbuckle and you have literature and specs on it!!??? Are you sure you're
not making this stuff up:-) Now will someone tell Dennis what a 325SF and a
326SF turnbuckle is and not to braze 4130 steel. Just kidding, sort of.
Ed G.
>From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: more on the turnbuckle parts
>Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 21:52:11 -0500
>
>
>Cy and Dick,
>
>The standard was adopted by Army-Navy on November 1, 1924. Numbering was
>different: AN44 through AN50: R- right hand thread, L- left hand thread,
>S-
>short Barrel, L- long barrel, 44- cable eye, 45- fork, 46- pin eye, 47-
>barrel, 48- turnbuckle ass'y with two cable eyes, 49-turnbuckle ass'y with
>cable eye and fork, 50- turnbuckle ass'y with cable eye and pin eye. Thus
>AN-44-46LL is a Army-Navy standard long cable eye with a LH thread for a
>cable strength of 4600 lbs.
>
>Indeed a .216 major diameter and a number 12. If there is a number 2 and a
>number 4 and a number 6 and number 8 and a number 10, then why not a number
>12?
>
>I also looked up the TPI and it is -28 not -24 per June 1928 Journal of the
>SAE, Vol XXII, No. 6 page 707.
>
>chris bobka
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>rhartwig11(at)juno.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/07/02
>
>
>I have some fork ends for turnbuckles that appear to be 7/32 X 28 thread.
> In other words they won't fit into a 3/16 X 32 barrel and they slide
>right through a 1/4 XI. B & B and AS&S don't have barrels to fit. Has
>anyone else heard of this size or where I can get them.
>Dick Hartwig
>
>
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Engelkenjohn <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
Do any of you guys who went to Brodhead know who was selling laser cut
metal fittings for the piet?
Dennis Engelkenjohn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Ed G.) |
Maybe I missed it ...but I didn't see anyone there with metal piet parts
other than engine parts and Vi Kaplers hinges.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Yes, it was Lee Stenson selling the laser cut fittings.
Gene Rambo
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Engelkenjohn <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: metal parts
>
> Do any of you guys who went to Brodhead know who was selling laser cut
> metal fittings for the piet?
> Dennis Engelkenjohn
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Engelkenjohn <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
Thanks Gene:
Does anyone have Lee Stensons' address and phone number?
Dennis Engelkenjohn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
What's the going rate for a set of laser cut parts from Stenson? $1,400
from Replicraft sounds likes a lot especially when they don't deliver. I
would hate to think that the "value add" of actual delivery would push the
price higher than that.
Robert Haines
Du Quoin, Illinois
P.S. - Nice aeroplane, Corky.
> From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: metal parts
>
>
> Yes, it was Lee Stenson selling the laser cut fittings.
>
> Gene Rambo
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dennis Engelkenjohn <wingding(at)usmo.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: metal parts
>
>
>
> >
> > Do any of you guys who went to Brodhead know who was selling laser cut
> > metal fittings for the piet?
> > Dennis Engelkenjohn
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | purchasing metal fitting info----from the new Piet newsletter |
Lee Stenson, PO Box 25, Brodhead, WI 53520 608-897-4000
e-mail ljsc37(at)Yahoo.com
He has an almost FULL page ad in the Piet news......for his metal parts
that he offers. Do you guys get the new newsletter ????
I'll type some of the info, othewise look it up in your newsletter or
contact him directly:
"The set consists of 32 pieces of 4130 CM laser cut steel parts as per the
'32 Improved Air Camper Plans. They are:
4 aileron horns
4 elevator horns
4 upper motor mount brackets (with the tab for the fwd. cabane strut braces.)
4 lower motor mount brackets
4 tailskid attach brackets
4 upper landing gear attach brackets
4 lower lift strut attach brackets
2 rudder horns
2 control stick torque tube aileron cable brackets
"I prefer to sell complete sets for $300 shipping included in the lower 48."
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Liability Insurance |
Dear Pieters,
I am being refused insurance because, they say, that the owner must be the
pilot. Now ain't that a barrel of snakes. Think my age COULD be a factor? You
can't believe anyone these days.
On the serious side, if anyone can point me in the right direction for some
liability insurance for 41CC I would appreciate it as I will definitely not
let it leave the ground without it. The test pilot has ALL the ratings
available with over 11k hrs. Thanks
Corky in La mired in the administrative swamp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Dearinger" <mrclean(at)arkansas.net> |
>
> The Sulphur Springs (TX) Sport Aviation Association, Inc.. aka EAA
> Chapter 1094, invites one and all to our 7th Annual Fall Fly-in at
> Sulphur Springs Municipal (SLR) on Saturday, September 21. SLR is
> approximately half way between Dallas and Texarkana, TX/AR just north of
> I-30 on Hwy 19.
> This fly-in is held in conjunction with the annual Fall Festival
> and the famous Hopkins County Stew Contest.
> We are expecting 200 plus planes and would like to see a number
> of Pietenpols, other homebuilts, and factory built birds to
> partake of the stew, the barbecue, and the 'good ole' Hopkins County
> hospitality.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "david kowell" <dkowell(at)cstone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: purchasing metal fitting info----from the new Piet |
newsletter
do i daRE ASK IF HE HAS gn1 fittings sorry you real airplame folks
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: purchasing metal fitting info----from the new Piet
newsletter
>
> Lee Stenson, PO Box 25, Brodhead, WI 53520 608-897-4000
> e-mail ljsc37(at)Yahoo.com
>
> He has an almost FULL page ad in the Piet news......for his metal parts
> that he offers. Do you guys get the new newsletter ????
>
> I'll type some of the info, othewise look it up in your newsletter or
> contact him directly:
>
> "The set consists of 32 pieces of 4130 CM laser cut steel parts as per the
> '32 Improved Air Camper Plans. They are:
>
> 4 aileron horns
> 4 elevator horns
> 4 upper motor mount brackets (with the tab for the fwd. cabane strut
braces.)
> 4 lower motor mount brackets
> 4 tailskid attach brackets
> 4 upper landing gear attach brackets
> 4 lower lift strut attach brackets
> 2 rudder horns
> 2 control stick torque tube aileron cable brackets
> "I prefer to sell complete sets for $300 shipping included in the lower
48."
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: purchasing metal fitting info----from the new Piet |
newsletter
Hi David,
You can ask, but I don't think he does.
The GN1 fittings are real different, at least the ones I have looked at,
the landing gear and lower end lift strut fittings.
Skip
>
> do i daRE ASK IF HE HAS gn1 fittings sorry you real airplame folks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: purchasing metal fitting info----from the new Piet |
newsletter
yup... GN-1 parts are not even close to the same. I ended up buying an
80% complete GN-1 just for the parts. I took what I wanted from the
plane.... bought a handful from Replicraft (which I almost didn't get) and
then sold the airframe.
Now I have just about all the metal parts I need for my GN -1. Cost - about
$2,000 for everything.
DJ
www.raptoronline.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Skip Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: purchasing metal fitting info----from the new
Piet newsletter
>
> Hi David,
> You can ask, but I don't think he does.
> The GN1 fittings are real different, at least the ones I have looked at,
> the landing gear and lower end lift strut fittings.
> Skip
>
>
> >
> > do i daRE ASK IF HE HAS gn1 fittings sorry you real airplame folks
>
>
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lee Stenson Pietenpol fittings |
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
Doug,
If you are you referring to the extra tab and hole on the top of the top
mount used for the forward brace from upper cabane fitting to engine
mount fitting---the answer is, "Yes."
Dick Hartwig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
$10/year to BPA c/o Independent
Register PO Box 255 Brodhead, WI 53520-0255. 2001 www.Pietenpol.org.
Dick Hartwig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
I subscribed about two months ago, how often are they sent out? That web site
is pretty sparse, it doesn't tell much except where to send your money.
Kent Hallsten
Oklahoma City
-----Original Message-----
From: rhartwig11(at)juno.com [mailto:rhartwig11(at)juno.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: BPA Newsletter
$10/year to BPA c/o Independent
Register PO Box 255 Brodhead, WI 53520-0255. 2001 www.Pietenpol.org.
Dick Hartwig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
>
>
>I subscribed about two months ago, how often are they sent out? That web
>site is pretty sparse, it doesn't tell much except where to send your
>money.
>
>Kent Hallsten
>Oklahoma City
>
Kent,
They publish more or less quarterly. Next one due out in Oct. I think. The
web site is sparse & has been pretty much unchanged for about a year.
Not getting much done on the plane these days, busy with flying lessons.
However, I did luck into a nice '66 Corvair engine a couple of weeks ago.
The guy GAVE it me. I had called him because he was the contact # for a
local CORSA Chapter & I figured he could give me some leads on an engine.
He said "I have one out of a '66 Monza, come & get it!
It doesn't get much better than that!
Cheers!
KIp Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Chambers" <kengg(at)texas.net> |
Hello Oscar
I might go, but I would be going by Honda.
Have you found any piets going?
Ken in Austin
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: SWRFI
>
> Any Pietenpol'ers planning to be at the EAA Southwest Regional Fly-In
> (SWRFI) in Abilene on Sept. 27-29?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
Kip, did you go to Washburn HS?
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kip &
Beth Gardner
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: BPA Newsletter
>
>
>I subscribed about two months ago, how often are they sent out? That web
>site is pretty sparse, it doesn't tell much except where to send your
>money.
>
>Kent Hallsten
>Oklahoma City
>
Kent,
They publish more or less quarterly. Next one due out in Oct. I think. The
web site is sparse & has been pretty much unchanged for about a year.
Not getting much done on the plane these days, busy with flying lessons.
However, I did luck into a nice '66 Corvair engine a couple of weeks ago.
The guy GAVE it me. I had called him because he was the contact # for a
local CORSA Chapter & I figured he could give me some leads on an engine.
He said "I have one out of a '66 Monza, come & get it!
It doesn't get much better than that!
Cheers!
KIp Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John_Duprey(at)vmed.org |
09/12/2002 09:22:44 AM
Kent: It is sent out quarterly.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Engelkenjohn <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
Hi Everyone:
B & B Aircraft only has the long turnbuckle barrels in stock right
now. Does anyone know of any reason not to use the long turnbuckle.
He also has only pin ends and is temporarily out of cable ends, but
says you can chamfer a pin end and use it as a cable end, does anyone
know anyone who has and is it acceptable to the FAA?
He has some metric turnbuckles, but the ends are smaller, not the
threads, but the end where the cable attaches. Again, has anyone used
them?
Dennis Engelkenjohn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 09/12/02 |
So I sat in the back seat today! I raised the knee cutouts 2" and this is
going to work out nicely. Almost ready to try the front. What a kick. Carl
Lekven
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | matt miller <thorntonmiller(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | elevator gussets |
I'm sure this has been asked many times but, do the elevator gussets go on the
raised portion of the "T" beam or do they go on the wider, flat portion of the
beam. The plans seem to indicate that they go on the raised portion, while many
builders seem to be attaching the gussets to the flat , wide part of the beams.
Which is correct?
Matt
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator gussets |
Matt,
just sent you a personal email on the issue but will address it here too.
glue them to the inset portion of the "T" you want as much surface area as
possible contacting the gusset. Plus if you put the gusset on the inset,
you'll end up with a very nice flush mounted gusset that will never be seen
when you cover.
see this photo of one of my corners:
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/images/01-10-02-stab-corner-2.jpg
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.raptoronline.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "matt miller" <thorntonmiller(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: elevator gussets
>
>
> I'm sure this has been asked many times but, do the elevator gussets go on
the raised portion of the "T" beam or do they go on the wider, flat portion
of the beam. The plans seem to indicate that they go on the raised portion,
while many builders seem to be attaching the gussets to the flat , wide part
of the beams. Which is correct?
>
> Matt
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | empty nest syndrome |
With the help of friends, trasnported the Piet to the airport today. Now for final
put together, and last 2,000 things to finish.
Really shocking to go into the garage, Oh sorry, airplane factory, and see nothing!
Got to keep moving forward.
I'm close behind you Corky.
walt
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bret & Robin Chilcott <chilcott(at)terraworld.net> |
| Subject: | Benton, KS Pietenpole fly in |
Hi guys!
Who has the details on the Benton, KS fly-in?
I plan on driving from Neodesha, KS to see the sights there.
Please let me know.
Thanks!
Bret Chilcott
Neodesha, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | empty nest syndrome |
Great news Walter! I am eager to see more pictures. I am scanning in some of
a beautifully done Nieuport 17 sent by Rick Bennett. BTW, are these pictures
of your plane being built or does anyone know where these pictures came
from? Kent Hallsten thought they might be yours.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=24
-Gary
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of walter
> evans
> Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 5:00 PM
> To: piet discussion
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: empty nest syndrome
>
>
>
>
> With the help of friends, trasnported the Piet to the airport
> today. Now for final put together, and last 2,000 things to finish.
> Really shocking to go into the garage, Oh sorry, airplane
> factory, and see nothing!
> Got to keep moving forward.
> I'm close behind you Corky.
> walt
> NX140DL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: empty nest syndrome |
Gary,
If you are asking me, walt, yes the address below is pictures of my Piet.
Now just have to figure out how to put more on, now that it's at the
airport.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: empty nest syndrome
>
> Great news Walter! I am eager to see more pictures. I am scanning in some
of
> a beautifully done Nieuport 17 sent by Rick Bennett. BTW, are these
pictures
> of your plane being built or does anyone know where these pictures came
> from? Kent Hallsten thought they might be yours.
>
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=24
>
> -Gary
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of walter
> > evans
> > Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 5:00 PM
> > To: piet discussion
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: empty nest syndrome
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > With the help of friends, trasnported the Piet to the airport
> > today. Now for final put together, and last 2,000 things to finish.
> > Really shocking to go into the garage, Oh sorry, airplane
> > factory, and see nothing!
> > Got to keep moving forward.
> > I'm close behind you Corky.
> > walt
> > NX140DL
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
I hope some can relate to this, with all the stuff going thru my head right now
something. My alternator has the voltage reg built in, but this would relate to
the ones that are seperate.
also. There are three wires coming out. The two marked batt go to the battery,
the other wire marked
ign goes to the ignition switch. What I'm blocked on is that does it go to the
batt side of the switch or
the ign side of the switch? If it goes to the ignition side, it seems like that
would be the same as connecting it direct to the coil. So how would turning off
the ignition stop the engine? And if it connects
to the batt side, it would be the same as connecting it straight to the battery.
I know this question sounds
dumb but I've got a brain fart at the moment and can't draw the picture in my head.
Any help will be appreciated.
BTW Walt, good going on getting your plane to the airport. I hope to have my fuse
out at
my field by the end of the month. The wings should follow in a couple of weeks
after.
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 2002 Benton, KS Fly-In |
In a message dated 9/14/02 5:24:49 PM Central Daylight Time,
chilcott(at)terraworld.net writes:
<< Who has the details on the Benton, KS fly-in? >>
Hi Bret !!
The Benton, KS Fly-In will be on Saturday,October 12, 2002, at Benton
Airpark - about 10 miles NE of Wichita KS, on Rt. 254. If you are traveling
Rt. 135 (it goes north / south, right through Wichita), turn east on Rt. 254
about 10 miles, Benton is on the south side of this nice 4 lane highway, and
the airport is on the south side of town. Head south, through town, about a
mile the hard surface road turns west, and the airport is a few hundered
yards, on the south side of this road...caution: Low Flying Aircraft. If
you are flying in, there are two water tanks in Benton, and the airport is
about a mile west of the 'ball' type water tank, on the south side of town.
Right Hand traffic on runway 16, grass strip on the west side of the new hard
surface runway. If you plan on using the grass strip, please let me know,
and I'll fill you in on all the nooks and cranny's of the grass strip. There
is no camping allowed at Benton Airpark, but just a few miles away is a
couple of lakes, where camping is allowed. Or you could probably find a
Motel / Hotel within 10 or 15 miles, or you could sleep in the pile of
sawdust on my dining room floor. So, it is just a get together of people who
build and fly homebuilt planes, or any plane, for that matter, but I hope the
weather is perfect , and we could blacken the sky with Pietenpols !!!
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita, KS
NX770CG
p.s. Lets start this thread to take a 'roll call' on people who think they
will be there.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | empty nest syndrome |
Way to go, Walt! I'm about a year behind you.
I know what you mean about it looking funny in the shop with no airplane. I
took my project on a flat bed gooseneck trailer to the airport last year for
an EAA Chapter meeting and it sure looked strange to go down to the basement
and see no airplane project. Now I realize that soon after I finish the
Piet I will have to build something else. I'm leaning towards something at
the opposite end of the spectrum, like an RV-8, or maybe something really
aerobatic like a Pitts. Haven't decided.
Jack
With the help of friends, trasnported the Piet to the airport today. Now
for final put together, and last 2,000 things to finish.
Really shocking to go into the garage, Oh sorry, airplane factory, and see
nothing!
Got to keep moving forward.
I'm close behind you Corky.
walt
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017(at)insightbb.com> |
Carl,
You did not say what kind of alternator you have so I am assuming you
have a Delco alternator with integrated regulator as used on GM cars during
the 70's and early 80's. If this is not the case disregard the rest of this.
The big wire that bolts under the lug goes to the battery that is where the
power comes out of the alternator. The 2 little wires that plug in go to the
idiot light and to the ign side of the ignition switch. The one that goes to
the switch just tells the alternator that it is time to send out electricity
because the switch is on.
Wayne McIntosh
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wiring
>
> I hope some can relate to this, with all the stuff going thru my head
right now , I've drawn a blank on
> something. My alternator has the voltage reg built in, but this would
relate to the ones that are seperate.
> also. There are three wires coming out. The two marked batt go to the
battery, the other wire marked
> ign goes to the ignition switch. What I'm blocked on is that does it go to
the batt side of the switch or
> the ign side of the switch? If it goes to the ignition side, it seems like
that would be the same as connecting it direct to the coil. So how would
turning off the ignition stop the engine? And if it connects
> to the batt side, it would be the same as connecting it straight to the
battery. I know this question sounds
> dumb but I've got a brain fart at the moment and can't draw the picture in
my head. Any help will be appreciated.
> BTW Walt, good going on getting your plane to the airport. I hope to have
my fuse out at
> my field by the end of the month. The wings should follow in a couple of
weeks after.
> Carl
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tail feather gussets |
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
Matt,
I would agree that the best of those two options is to glue the gussets
to the "low" part so that it is flush with the "high" part of the
beam.....BUT...There is another way. THE PLANS INDICATE that you should
cut the "high" part of the beam down flush with the "low" part only where
the corner gussets fit. THE EXCEPTION is the gusset at the center/rear
of the horizontal stab....that gusset gets glued to only the low portion.
Strength of the beam is not compromised as you are thinning it only at
the ends of each beam and you are getting maximum glue surface.
Dick Hartwig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 2002 Benton, KS Fly-In |
I'll be there!
Driving up to Tulsa on Friday and on up to WIchita on Saturday for the
day.......
Jim Markle
Plano, TX
(Ribs done, finished both elevators (and have "finished sanded" one), have a
few gussets to add to the horiz stab and it will be ready for
sanding......my late 20's son picked up the sanded elevator today and asked
if I could finish it with a clear covering so the nice woodwork would show
through.....dang this is fun.......)
Hi Bret !!
The Benton, KS Fly-In will be on Saturday,October 12, 2002, at Benton
Airpark - about 10 miles NE of Wichita KS, on Rt. 254. If
blah, blah, blah......
weather is perfect , and we could blacken the sky with Pietenpols !!!
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita, KS
NX770CG
p.s. Lets start this thread to take a 'roll call' on people who think they
will be there.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carl Loar
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wiring
I hope some can relate to this, with all the stuff going thru my head right
now , I've drawn a blank on
something. My alternator has the voltage reg built in, but this would relate
to the ones that are seperate.
also. There are three wires coming out. The two marked batt go to the
battery, the other wire marked
ign goes to the ignition switch. What I'm blocked on is that does it go to
the batt side of the switch or
the ign side of the switch?
If it goes to the ignition side, it seems like that would be the same as
connecting it direct to the coil. So how would turning off the ignition stop
the engine?
Carl
It would go to the Ign. side. Yes, it would be the same as to the hot side
of the coil. This would indeed supply current to the coil once the engine
was running and the alt. charging. The solution would be to use a switch
that has an accessory terminal and excite the alt from that or use a
separate SPST for the alt.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Thanks guys, I got it now. With your help and a scematic I found on the web
of the same
kind of Bosch alt as mine, I figured it out. The wire from the small jack
does go to the
ign side of the switch. That activates a switching diode that lets the juice
flow from the
voltage regulator. When the switch is on, the alt sends voltage to the
battery. When the
switch is off, the flow is stopped, thus shuting down the engine.
Thanks so much for the input.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wiring
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carl Loar
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wiring
>
>
> I hope some can relate to this, with all the stuff going thru my head
right
> now , I've drawn a blank on
> something. My alternator has the voltage reg built in, but this would
relate
> to the ones that are seperate.
> also. There are three wires coming out. The two marked batt go to the
> battery, the other wire marked
> ign goes to the ignition switch. What I'm blocked on is that does it go to
> the batt side of the switch or
> the ign side of the switch?
> If it goes to the ignition side, it seems like that would be the same as
> connecting it direct to the coil. So how would turning off the ignition
stop
> the engine?
>
> Carl
>
> It would go to the Ign. side. Yes, it would be the same as to the hot side
> of the coil. This would indeed supply current to the coil once the engine
> was running and the alt. charging. The solution would be to use a switch
> that has an accessory terminal and excite the alt from that or use a
> separate SPST for the alt.
> John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
When you tell someone you're building an airplane
and you get that "You're crazy and you'll never get
me up in that thing! " reply, just tell them:
Noah's ark was built by amatuers,
The Titanic by professionals.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: You're crazy |
> > Noah's ark was built by amatuers,
> > The Titanic by professionals.
but I heard they could never get that ark up on the
step. never did fly
Del
http://news.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Leading Edge Aluminum |
I plan to do my leading edge in aluminum. What thickness works the best.
DickG.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Man I gotta tell you, I've propped some planes but my corvair takes the cake.
I got about four pops out of it. That engine can wear you out. I know that once
she
gets running it will loosen up a bit but for now wow. I hope to have her spinning
on
idle by the weekend.
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craigo" <craigwilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge Aluminum |
On Mon, 16 September 2002, "Dick and Marge Gillespie"
wrote:
> I plan to do my leading edge in aluminum. What
> thickness works the best.
> DickG.
Dick-
I've used .020 on the last 6 airplanes I've built.
Works great!
Craig
Lake Worth, FL
Bakeng Duce NX96CW
PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart.
http://www.peoplepc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
Anyone else besides ASS and Wicks sell aircraft spruce?
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
Larry,
Check www.sirius-aviation.com
Kent Hallsten
Oklahoma City
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Ragan [mailto:lragan(at)hotmail.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spruce sources
Anyone else besides ASS and Wicks sell aircraft spruce?
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gdascomb(at)aol.com |
For complete top quality milled kits, Contact Marc Septav at Western Aircraft
Supplies. 250-355-0003. I bought fuselage, tail and wing kits from Marc and
he does excellent work.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/16/02 |
In a message dated 9/16/02 11:54:16 PM, pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com
writes:
From: "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading Edge Aluminum
>>
I too plan on an aluminum leading edge. Also the trailing edge. I've been
looking at an old Aeronca on the field here, and it uses both. also the spars
are beautiful, fifty years old, and the same size as Bernie's latest, 3/4 ".
We're building a scale Jenny, and the kit maker says to make both the leading
edge and trailing edge out of aluminum gutter channel from Home Depot. I
haven't really checked this out but will soon. The gutter channel should be
strong enough, especially if we make the little bend at each edge, which is
there for additional strength. But I haven't started building the wing yet,
still hung up on getting the seats in, then seat belts, before starting
anything else.
Carl Lekven, Los Angeles, Compton Airport
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | catdesigns(at)juno.com |
Question for all you metal painting expert, informed, opinionated, or helpful people.
What do I need to do to my metal welded fittings, let us use the torque
tube as an example, before I spray it with some zinc chromate primer? Do I
need to sand every inch of the part that is to be primed to a shinny chrome like
appearance then spray on the primer or can I hit it with a wire brush and spray.
What about the flaky stuff (scale?) left over after welding that will not
sand off? Do I grind it off then sand then paint? Do I need to use some kind
of metal prep solution like an etching solution before priming? Can I just
wipe it down with acetone or paint thinner and prime it? Can you paint over
the black stuff on the outside of 4130 tubing or does it need to be removed
first? Lets say I have developed a little bit of red-rust in the weld area between
the tubing and the control horn. What do I need to this area before spraying
on the primer?
Thanks
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | steamlaunch(at)softhome.net |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce sources |
Larry
If you are willing to take a chance I found this one, No experience with
them.
They have a priclist with 4/4 and 8/4 rough cut Sticka Spruce also.
Matt
http://www.publiclumber.com/1x9sitkaspruce.html
Larry Ragan writes:
>
>
> Anyone else besides ASS and Wicks sell aircraft spruce?
>
>
> Larry Ragan
> Jacksonville, Fl.
> lragan(at)hotmail.com
>
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting Metal |
I have powdercoated most of my fittings. will preserve the metal long after I
leave this world!
DJ
www.raptoronline.com
----- Original Message -----
From: catdesigns(at)juno.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 1:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Painting Metal
Question for all you metal painting expert, informed, opinionated, or helpful
people. What do I need to do to my metal welded fittings, let us use the torque
tube as an example, before I spray it with some zinc chromate primer? Do
I need to sand every inch of the part that is to be primed to a shinny chrome
like appearance then spray on the primer or can I hit it with a wire brush and
spray. What about the flaky stuff (scale?) left over after welding that will
not sand off? Do I grind it off then sand then paint? Do I need to use some
kind of metal prep solution like an etching solution before priming? Can I just
wipe it down with acetone or paint thinner and prime it? Can you paint over
the black stuff on the outside of 4130 tubing or does it need to be removed
first? Lets say I have developed a little bit of red-rust in the weld area between
the tubing and the control horn. What do I need to this area before spraying
on the primer?
Thanks
Chris
Sacramento, CA
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tight corvair |
>
>Man I gotta tell you, I've propped some planes but my corvair takes the cake.
>I got about four pops out of it. That engine can wear you out. I know that
>once she
>gets running it will loosen up a bit but for now wow. I hope to have her
>spinning on
>idle by the weekend.
>Carl
Carl,
Before you crank it up, I'll mention that in the new version of his Corvair
conversion manual, Wm. Wynne specifically warns against running the engine
at idle for any length of time BEFORE it is broken in. He has worked out a
good scheme for the initial runs that he says will break in the engine
properly. Drop me a line & I'll go over it with you.
Cheers!
Kip
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | N40044 has a running engine |
Finally got the corvair fired for the first time. Did that sound sweet. The engine
ran smooth as
glass. I know everyone says how smooth they are but I expected a little shake at
first with out
any fine tuning, but that baby just sat on the mount and purred. I started it twice
and only let it
run for a couple of minutes each. It made my day so I had to share it with the
list.
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brants" <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N40044 has a running engine |
congrats! I can't wait to hear one run myself!
Tom B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: N40044 has a running engine
>
> Finally got the corvair fired for the first time. Did that sound sweet.
The engine ran smooth as
> glass. I know everyone says how smooth they are but I expected a little
shake at first with out
> any fine tuning, but that baby just sat on the mount and purred. I started
it twice and only let it
> run for a couple of minutes each. It made my day so I had to share it with
the list.
> Carl
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brants" <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce sources |
You might try McKormicks Lumber in Madison, Wisconsin... It's where I got
my wood from. It's rough cut though so you'd need a planer. Great stuff
though for the money.
Tom B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spruce sources
>
>
> Anyone else besides ASS and Wicks sell aircraft spruce?
>
>
> Larry Ragan
> Jacksonville, Fl.
> lragan(at)hotmail.com
>
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N40044 has a running engine |
Carl,
Was your 'Vair a "Wynne" conversion? What did you do or not do for the conversion?
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
Chris, I beadblasted all my steel parts, whether welded or not, before
priming with epoxy primer. You probably would not be happy with the results
if you just painted directly over the black finish of chromoly tubing -
there is an oil on the surface that will prevent good paint adhesion. For
what it's worth, zinc chromate is not a bad primer for aluminum, but isn't
very good on steel. The best primer I have found is PolyFiber's epoxy
primer, I used Randolph Epibond on the first few parts I did but have found
it to be totally unsatisfactory - it can be scraped off with very little
effort. The PolyFiber primer is hard as nails once cured. In fact, once it
is cured the only way to get it off is by beadblasting.
Most aircraft maintenance shops have a beadblast cabinet stuck somewhere in
the back of a hangar. I'm sure if you asked they would let you use it. It
really does a nice job of cleaning scale off welds, and genrally gives steel
a nice burnished satin look that provides good "tooth" for the primer to
adhere to. The PolyFiber epoxy primer is very expensive, but what's a few
dollars to protect all the work you've put into this project? I guarentee
you will like it (other than the price).
Jack
-----Original Message-----
Question for all you metal painting expert, informed, opinionated, or
helpful people. What do I need to do to my metal welded fittings, let us
use the torque tube as an example, before I spray it with some zinc chromate
primer? Do I need to sand every inch of the part that is to be primed to a
shinny chrome like appearance then spray on the primer or can I hit it with
a wire brush and spray. What about the flaky stuff (scale?) left over after
welding that will not sand off? Do I grind it off then sand then paint? Do
I need to use some kind of metal prep solution like an etching solution
before priming? Can I just wipe it down with acetone or paint thinner and
prime it? Can you paint over the black stuff on the outside of 4130 tubing
or does it need to be removed first? Lets say I have developed a little bit
of red-rust in the weld area between the tubing and the control horn. What
do I need to this area before spraying on the primer?
Thanks
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
Chris,
You could also look into Por-15. I have used it on metal and really
like it. I think it quite a bit less expensive than Poly-Fiber stuff.
Por-15 has a starter's kit for about $13 that they say covers 12 Sq
Ft. Probably more than enough for all the fittings on a piet. You can
paint over the por-15 and use it as a primer.
I'm not a rep or anything, just have liked their product.
Their site is http://www.por-15.com
Kirk
>
>
>Chris, I beadblasted all my steel parts, whether welded or not, before
>priming with epoxy primer. You probably would not be happy with the results
>if you just painted directly over the black finish of chromoly tubing -
>there is an oil on the surface that will prevent good paint adhesion. For
>what it's worth, zinc chromate is not a bad primer for aluminum, but isn't
>very good on steel. The best primer I have found is PolyFiber's epoxy
>primer, I used Randolph Epibond on the first few parts I did but have found
>it to be totally unsatisfactory - it can be scraped off with very little
>effort. The PolyFiber primer is hard as nails once cured. In fact, once it
>is cured the only way to get it off is by beadblasting.
>
>Most aircraft maintenance shops have a beadblast cabinet stuck somewhere in
>the back of a hangar. I'm sure if you asked they would let you use it. It
>really does a nice job of cleaning scale off welds, and genrally gives steel
>a nice burnished satin look that provides good "tooth" for the primer to
>adhere to. The PolyFiber epoxy primer is very expensive, but what's a few
>dollars to protect all the work you've put into this project? I guarentee
>you will like it (other than the price).
>
>Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Painting Metal |
| From: | catdesigns(at)juno.com |
Thanks Jack, when you say bead blast what type of blast media is used? Sand, walnut
shells, glass.. My father in law says he has a sand blaster some where in
his garage I can use.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
---------- "Jack Phillips" writes:
From: "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Painting Metal
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 06:05:39 -0400
Chris, I beadblasted all my steel parts, whether welded or not, before
priming with epoxy primer. You probably would not be happy with the results
if you just painted directly over the black finish of chromoly tubing -
there is an oil on the surface that will prevent good paint adhesion. For
what it's worth, zinc chromate is not a bad primer for aluminum, but isn't
very good on steel. The best primer I have found is PolyFiber's epoxy
primer, I used Randolph Epibond on the first few parts I did but have found
it to be totally unsatisfactory - it can be scraped off with very little
effort. The PolyFiber primer is hard as nails once cured. In fact, once it
is cured the only way to get it off is by beadblasting.
Most aircraft maintenance shops have a beadblast cabinet stuck somewhere in
the back of a hangar. I'm sure if you asked they would let you use it. It
really does a nice job of cleaning scale off welds, and genrally gives steel
a nice burnished satin look that provides good "tooth" for the primer to
adhere to. The PolyFiber epoxy primer is very expensive, but what's a few
dollars to protect all the work you've put into this project? I guarentee
you will like it (other than the price).
Jack
-----Original Message-----
Question for all you metal painting expert, informed, opinionated, or
helpful people. What do I need to do to my metal welded fittings, let us
use the torque tube as an example, before I spray it with some zinc chromate
primer? Do I need to sand every inch of the part that is to be primed to a
shinny chrome like appearance then spray on the primer or can I hit it with
a wire brush and spray. What about the flaky stuff (scale?) left over after
welding that will not sand off? Do I grind it off then sand then paint? Do
I need to use some kind of metal prep solution like an etching solution
before priming? Can I just wipe it down with acetone or paint thinner and
prime it? Can you paint over the black stuff on the outside of 4130 tubing
or does it need to be removed first? Lets say I have developed a little bit
of red-rust in the weld area between the tubing and the control horn. What
do I need to this area before spraying on the primer?
Thanks
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Hello, low 'n' slow fliers;
Those of you running Corvairs or other setups with an electrical system
available can make a smoke system that is pretty nifty, using auto
windshield washer tank and pump. As a matter of fact, even without an
electrical system you can install a simple, dedicated electrically-operated
smoke system this way like the Kansas City Dawn Patrol guys did, at
http://www.kcdawnpatrol.com/smoke.htm It's a bit easier than hand-pumping
the old fertilizer sprayer. Just hit the "pickle switch" on your control
stick and you're making smoke.
It's a real shame that the 9-11 thing took some of the fun out of flying
activities. As Mike Cuy said about laying down a little bit of smoke these
days, you risk being turned in to the Al-Qaida police if you try this at the
wrong place or time.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Carl Loar ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Carl Loar
Subject: Pietenpol N40044 Photos
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/skycarl@megsinet.net.09.18.2002/index.html
--------------------------------------------
o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
o Main Photo Share Index:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
Chris, I used glass beads. They don't scratch like sand, but I will have to
use sand on the large parts (like the lift struts) since I can't fit them
into a beadblast cabinet and the glass beads are too expensive to let run
out on the grass. In a cabinet they are recycled so the cost is negligible.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
catdesigns(at)juno.com
Subject: Re:RE: Pietenpol-List: Painting Metal
Thanks Jack, when you say bead blast what type of blast media is used? Sand,
walnut shells, glass.. My father in law says he has a sand blaster some
where in his garage I can use.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N40044 has a running engine |
Hey Carl,
I'm about 60% complete with my '65 110hp Corvair conversion. Hoping to
start it on the test stand by the end of the year.
I'm hooked on Corvair engines!
DJ
www.raptoronline.com
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"Fishnet"
| Subject: | Found a guy to do vinyl stencils/artwork |
Friend of mine came to the airport with his motorcycle that he just had his granddaughters
name put the front fender by a local guy . Nice job. Turns
out he does all "stencils" made out of vinyl, and does truck lettering and airbrushing.
He showed me his motorcycle, it was amazing. He said if I gave him
a logo for the side of my Pietenpol, he would make it in a vinyl decal to just
put on.
Says he has no web site, but he will do mailorder. If anyone is interested in
his name / address let me know. ( north NJ)
walt
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
Sorry guys...that was supposed to be a personal E-mail to Chris Bobka..
Forgot to change the Addy. Red faced Ed in steamy Florida.
But on the other side of the coin...If someone has good used heel brake
cylinders or a nice vacume turn & bank for sale. I'm lookin'.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N40044 has a running engine |
Larry, I used Wm Wynn's manual, the pietenpol guide, and the 1965 chassis
manual. Then I just put it together the way I thought would work for me.
I used Bernie's safety shaft and his plans for the hub. I went with the
fanless version cutting off the fan and plugging the hole so I could use the
original oil breather.
I kept the stock cam, jugs and pistons.( had to replace one, got that from
Clark's.) Took Williams advice and got the rings, bearings, and gaskets from
JC Whitneys. Their gasket set is execellent and resonably priced. I'm
swinging a 64x32 Props Inc prop.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: N40044 has a running engine
>
>
> Carl,
>
>
> Was your 'Vair a "Wynne" conversion? What did you do or not do for the
conversion?
>
>
> Larry Ragan
> Jacksonville, Fl.
> lragan(at)hotmail.com
>
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
"Pietenpol-List(at)Matronics.Com"
| Subject: | FW: FAR question |
Corky and everybody else, look at this:
-----Original Message-----
From: Christian Bobka [mailto:bobka(at)charter.net]
Subject: FAR question
You are quoting (d)(1). Look at (k)(2)(iii). It lists exceptions. "The
rating limitations of this section do not apply to ...the holder of a pilot
certificate when operating an aircraft under the authority of an
experimental or provisional aircraft type certificate."
What a deal!!!
Sec. 61.31
Type rating requirements, additional training, and authorization
requirements.
(a) Type ratings required. A person who acts as a pilot in command of any of
the following aircraft must hold a type rating for that aircraft:
(1) Large aircraft (except lighter-than-air).
(2) Turbojet-powered airplanes.
(3) Other aircraft specified by the Administrator through aircraft type
certificate procedures.
(b) Authorization in lieu of a type rating. A person may be authorized to
operate without a type rating for up to 60 days an aircraft requiring a type
rating, provided--
(1) The Administrator has authorized the flight or series of flights;
(2) The Administrator has determined that an equivalent level of safety can
be achieved through the operating limitations on the authorization;
(3) The person shows that compliance with paragraph (a) of this section is
impracticable for the flight or series of flights; and
(4) The flight--
(i) Involves only a ferry flight, training flight, test flight, or practical
test for a pilot certificate or rating;
(ii) Is within the United States;
(iii) Does not involve operations for compensation or hire unless the
compensation or hire involves payment for the use of the aircraft for
training or taking a practical test; and
(iv) Involves only the carriage of flight crewmembers considered essential
for the flight.
(5) If the flight or series of flights cannot be accomplished within the
time limit of the authorization, the Administrator may authorize an
additional period of up to 60 days to accomplish the flight or series of
flights.
(c) Aircraft category, class, and type ratings: Limitations on the carriage
of persons, or operating for compensation or hire. Unless a person holds a
category, class, and type rating (if a class and type rating is required)
that applies to the aircraft, that person may not act as pilot in command of
an aircraft that is carrying another person, or is operated for compensation
or hire. That person also may not act as pilot in command of that aircraft
for compensation or hire.
(d) Aircraft category, class, and type ratings: Limitations on operating an
aircraft as the pilot in command. To serve as the pilot in command of an
aircraft, a person must--
(1) Hold the appropriate category, class, and type rating (if a class rating
and type rating are required) for the aircraft to be flown;
(2) Be receiving training for the purpose of obtaining an additional pilot
certificate and rating that are appropriate to that aircraft, and be under
the supervision of an authorized instructor; or
(3) Have received training required by this part that is appropriate to the
aircraft category, class, and type rating (if a class or type rating is
required) for the aircraft to be flown, and have received the required
endorsements from an instructor who is authorized to provide the required
endorsements for solo flight in that aircraft.
(e) Additional training required for operating complex airplanes. (1) Except
as provided in paragraph (e)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot
in command of a complex airplane (an airplane that has a retractable landing
gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller; or, in the case of a
seaplane, flaps and a controllable pitch propeller), unless the person has--
(i) Received and logged ground and flight training from an authorized
instructor in a complex airplane, or in a flight simulator or flight
training device that is representative of a complex airplane, and has been
found proficient in the operation and systems of the airplane; and
(ii) Received a one-time endorsement in the pilot's logbook from an
authorized instructor who certifies the person is proficient to operate a
complex airplane.
(2) The training and endorsement required by paragraph (e)(1) of this
section is not required if the person has logged flight time as pilot in
command of a complex airplane, or in a flight simulator or flight training
device that is representative of a complex airplane prior to August 4, 1997.
(f) Additional training required for operating high-performance airplanes.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (f)(2) of this section, no person may
act as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane (an airplane with an
engine of more than 200 horsepower), unless the person has--
(i) Received and logged ground and flight training from an authorized
instructor in a high-performance airplane, or in a flight simulator or
flight training device that is representative of a high-performance
airplane, and has been found proficient in the operation and systems of the
airplane; and
(ii) Received a one-time endorsement in the pilot's logbook from an
authorized instructor who certifies the person is proficient to operate a
high-performance airplane.
(2) The training and endorsement required by paragraph (f)(1) of this
section is not required if the person has logged flight time as pilot in
command of a high-performance airplane, or in a flight simulator or flight
training device that is representative of a high-performance airplane prior
to August 4, 1997.
(g) Additional training required for operating pressurized aircraft capable
of operating at high altitudes.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (g)(3) of this section, no person may
act as pilot in command of a pressurized aircraft (an aircraft that has a
service ceiling or maximum operating altitude, whichever is lower, above
25,000 feet MSL), unless that person has received and logged ground training
from an authorized instructor and obtained an endorsement in the person's
logbook or training record from an authorized instructor who certifies the
person has satisfactorily accomplished the ground training. The ground
training must include at least the following subjects:
(i) High-altitude aerodynamics and meteorology;
(ii) Respiration;
(iii) Effects, symptoms, and causes of hypoxia and any other high-altitude
sickness;
(iv) Duration of consciousness without supplemental oxygen;
(v) Effects of prolonged usage of supplemental oxygen;
(vi) Causes and effects of gas expansion and gas bubble formation;
(vii) Preventive measures for eliminating gas expansion, gas bubble
formation, and high-altitude sickness;
(viii) Physical phenomena and incidents of decompression; and
(ix) Any other physiological aspects of high-altitude flight.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (g)(3) of this section, no person may
act as pilot in command of a pressurized aircraft unless that person has
received and logged training from an authorized instructor in a pressurized
aircraft, or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is
representative of a pressurized aircraft, and obtained an endorsement in the
person's logbook or training record from an authorized instructor who found
the person proficient in the operation of a pressurized aircraft. The flight
training must include at least the following subjects:
(i) Normal cruise flight operations while operating above 25,000 feet MSL;
(ii) Proper emergency procedures for simulated rapid decompression without
actually depressurizing the aircraft; and
(iii) Emergency descent procedures.
(3) The training and endorsement required by paragraphs (g)(1) and (g)(2) of
this section are not required if that person can document satisfactory
accomplishment of any of the following in a pressurized aircraft, or in a
flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a
pressurized aircraft:
(i) Serving as pilot in command before April 15, 1991;
(ii) Completing a pilot proficiency check for a pilot certificate or rating
before April 15, 1991;
(iii) Completing an official pilot-in-command check conducted by the
military services of the United States; or
(iv) Completing a pilot-in-command proficiency check under part 121, 125, or
135 of this chapter conducted by the Administrator or by an approved pilot
check airman.
(h) Additional aircraft type-specific training. No person may serve as pilot
in command of an aircraft that the Administrator has determined requires
aircraft type-specific training unless that person has--
(1) Received and logged type-specific training in the aircraft, or in a
flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of that
type of aircraft; and
(2) Received a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor who has
found the person proficient in the operation of the aircraft and its
systems.
(i) Additional training required for operating tailwheel airplanes.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (i)(2) of this section, no person may
act as pilot in command of a tailwheel airplane unless that person has
received and logged flight training from an authorized instructor in a
tailwheel airplane and received an endorsement in the person's logbook from
an authorized instructor who found the person proficient in the operation of
a tailwheel airplane. The flight training must include at least the
following maneuvers and procedures:
(i) Normal and crosswind takeoffs and landings;
(ii) Wheel landings (unless the manufacturer has recommended against such
landings); and
(iii) Go-around procedures.
(2) The training and endorsement required by paragraph (i)(1) of this
section is not required if the person logged pilot-in-command time in a
tailwheel airplane before April 15, 1991.
(j) Additional training required for operating a glider. (1) No person may
act as pilot in command of a glider--
(i) Using ground-tow procedures, unless that person has satisfactorily
accomplished ground and flight training on ground-tow procedures and
operations, and has received an endorsement from an authorized instructor
who
certifies in that pilot's logbook that the pilot has been found proficient
in ground-tow procedures and operations;
(ii) Using aerotow procedures, unless that person has satisfactorily
accomplished ground and flight training on aerotow procedures and
operations, and has received an endorsement from an authorized instructor
who certifies in that pilot's logbook that the pilot has been found
proficient in aerotow procedures and operations; or
(iii) Using self-launch procedures, unless that person has satisfactorily
accomplished ground and flight training on self-launch procedures and
operations, and has received an endorsement from an authorized instructor
who certifies in that pilot's logbook that the pilot has been found
proficient in self-launch procedures and operations.
(2) The holder of a glider rating issued prior to August 4, 1997, is
considered to be in compliance with the training and logbook endorsement
requirements of this paragraph for the specific operating privilege for
which the holder is already qualified.
(k) Exceptions.
(1) This section does not require a category and class rating for aircraft
not type certificated as airplanes, rotorcraft, or lighter-than-air
aircraft, or a class rating for gliders or powered-lifts.
(2) The rating limitations of this section do not apply to--
(i) An applicant when taking a practical test given by an examiner;
(ii) The holder of a student pilot certificate; --
(iii) The holder of a pilot certificate when operating an aircraft under the
authority of an experimental or provisional aircraft type certificate;
(iv) The holder of a pilot certificate with a lighter-than-air category
rating when operating a balloon; or
(v) The holder of a recreational pilot certificate operating under the
provisions of Sec. 61.101(h).
[Amdt. 61-102, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997; Amdt. 61-103, 62 FR 40896, July
30, 1997, as amended by Amdt. 61-104, 63 FR 20286, Apr. 23, 1998]
-----Original Message-----
From: Slgf(at)aol.com [mailto:Slgf(at)aol.com]
Subject: Re: your cylinders
In a message dated 9/15/02 6:31:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
bobka(at)charter.net writes:
<< Suppose I am an ATP rated pilot ASEL and AMEL. I am about to do the
initial
test flight on an Experimental category glider. Is it legal for me to do
the test flight? >>
Chris,
Unless I missed something, your ATP is rated for Airplanes, but not
Gliders. My read of the FARs tells me that you must be appropriately rated
in the Category and Class in order to act as PIC.
Always ready to learn something new, Dick Fischer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
Corky,
If you certify your ship as a motor glider, Part 61.31 (k) (2) (iii) says
you do not need a glider rating to fly it as long as it is an experimental.
Again, what a deal!
chris bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | FW: FAR question |
:Bowing down: "We're not worthy, we're not worthy". ;)
Thanks Christian
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Christian
> Bobka
> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 12:39 AM
> To: Isablcorky(at)aol.com; Pietenpol-List(at)Matronics.Com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: FAR question
>
>
>
>
> Corky and everybody else, look at this:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christian Bobka [mailto:bobka(at)charter.net]
> To: Slgf(at)aol.com
> Subject: FAR question
>
>
> You are quoting (d)(1). Look at (k)(2)(iii). It lists exceptions. "The
> rating limitations of this section do not apply to ...the holder
> of a pilot
> certificate when operating an aircraft under the authority of an
> experimental or provisional aircraft type certificate."
>
> What a deal!!!
>
> Sec. 61.31
>
> Type rating requirements, additional training, and authorization
> requirements.
[snip]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
Corky,
I should have been a lawyer and not an airline pilot. This is excerpted
form the Sport Pilot NPRM. what is keeping you from flying once the
Airworthiness Certificate is granted now?Apparently, the FAA would like to
close the 61.31 (k) (2) (iii) loophole:
Proposed 61.31 would be amended by revising the exceptions to that
section. Currently, paragraph (k)(2) lists those persons to whom the rating
limitations of this section do not apply. Paragraph (k)(2)(iii) states that
the rating limitations do not apply to the holder of a pilot certificate
when operating an aircraft under the authority of an experimental or
provisional aircraft type certificate. Therefore, the rating limitations in
this section currently do not apply to pilots when operating aircraft with
experimental or provisional aircraft type certificates even if they carry
passengers.
SEE THAT? EVEN IF THEY CARRY PASSENGERS!!!!!
The proposal would revise this provision to state that the rating
limitations of this section would apply for flight operations involving the
carriage of passengers in these aircraft. In this case, pilots would need to
hold an appropriate category and class rating to operate the aircraft when
carrying passengers. The FAA notes the logbook endorsements that provide
sport pilots with additional category and class privileges do not constitute
category and class ratings under part 61. These aircraft have varying
performance characteristics, operational profiles, and diverse control and
flight features. In addition, the pilots who would be flying these aircraft
will have varying levels of experience. Therefore, in the interest of safety
and to protect the public, the FAA is proposing to change 61.31(k).
Certificated pilots who operate experimental aircraft would be required to
hold an appropriate category and class rating if they wish to carry
passengers.
EVEN IF THE NPRM WAS MADE INTO FAR EXACTLY AS WRITTEN, YOU WOULD STILL BE
ABLE TO FLY BY YOURSELF IN YOUR MOTOR GLIDER WITHOUT A MEDICAL IF YOU HAD
ANY TYPE OF A GLIDER LICENSE IE NOT NECESSARILY A SELF LAUNCHING GLIDER
PILOTS LICENSE. OR YOU COULD HAVE A MEDICAL AND ANY OTHER TYPE OF PILOTS
LICENSE (THAT REQUIRES A MEDICAL) TO FLY THE MOTORGLIDER. WHAT A DEAL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
or you could certify it as an experimental ASEL ship and get a glider rating
and fly it without a medical since a medical is not required to exercise
your glider priveliges.
chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Christian
Bobka
Subject: Pietenpol-List: more for corky
Corky,
I should have been a lawyer and not an airline pilot. This is excerpted
form the Sport Pilot NPRM. what is keeping you from flying once the
Airworthiness Certificate is granted now?Apparently, the FAA would like to
close the 61.31 (k) (2) (iii) loophole:
Proposed 61.31 would be amended by revising the exceptions to that
section. Currently, paragraph (k)(2) lists those persons to whom the rating
limitations of this section do not apply. Paragraph (k)(2)(iii) states that
the rating limitations do not apply to the holder of a pilot certificate
when operating an aircraft under the authority of an experimental or
provisional aircraft type certificate. Therefore, the rating limitations in
this section currently do not apply to pilots when operating aircraft with
experimental or provisional aircraft type certificates even if they carry
passengers.
SEE THAT? EVEN IF THEY CARRY PASSENGERS!!!!!
The proposal would revise this provision to state that the rating
limitations of this section would apply for flight operations involving the
carriage of passengers in these aircraft. In this case, pilots would need to
hold an appropriate category and class rating to operate the aircraft when
carrying passengers. The FAA notes the logbook endorsements that provide
sport pilots with additional category and class privileges do not constitute
category and class ratings under part 61. These aircraft have varying
performance characteristics, operational profiles, and diverse control and
flight features. In addition, the pilots who would be flying these aircraft
will have varying levels of experience. Therefore, in the interest of safety
and to protect the public, the FAA is proposing to change 61.31(k).
Certificated pilots who operate experimental aircraft would be required to
hold an appropriate category and class rating if they wish to carry
passengers.
EVEN IF THE NPRM WAS MADE INTO FAR EXACTLY AS WRITTEN, YOU WOULD STILL BE
ABLE TO FLY BY YOURSELF IN YOUR MOTOR GLIDER WITHOUT A MEDICAL IF YOU HAD
ANY TYPE OF A GLIDER LICENSE IE NOT NECESSARILY A SELF LAUNCHING GLIDER
PILOTS LICENSE. OR YOU COULD HAVE A MEDICAL AND ANY OTHER TYPE OF PILOTS
LICENSE (THAT REQUIRES A MEDICAL) TO FLY THE MOTORGLIDER. WHAT A DEAL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"Fishnet"
| Subject: | how to word a fuel transfer plate |
I'm in the final throws of getting ready for a final inspection on my Pietenpol
Aircamper. 10 gal tank in the wing center, above. and 14 gals in a fwd "nose"
tank. The plan is, when the fwd tank gets low, open a ball valve and transfer
to the fwd tank.
My AP mentor tells me that my plate isn't good enough with information. Has to
tell not to transfer from the top tank till the nose tank is low enough, so I'm
not wearing fuel with an overfull fwd tank.
the question is,,,,,how can I say that on the plate with the least words, that's
acceptible?
thanks
walt
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Ed G.) |
| Subject: | Re: how to word a fuel transfer plate |
Man Walt....Where are you going with all that fuel??? Are you planning
to follow Corky on one of his "runs" across the Gulf of Mexico??? :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: how to word a fuel transfer plate |
"Fishnet"
>
>
>I'm in the final throws of getting ready for a final inspection on my
>Pietenpol Aircamper. 10 gal tank in the wing center, above. and 14 gals
>in a fwd "nose" tank. The plan is, when the fwd tank gets low, open a
>ball valve and transfer to the fwd tank.
>My AP mentor tells me that my plate isn't good enough with information.
>Has to tell not to transfer from the top tank till the nose tank is low
>enough, so I'm not wearing fuel with an overfull fwd tank.
>the question is,,,,,how can I say that on the plate with the least words,
>that's acceptible?
>thanks
>walt
>NX140DL
Walt,
How about "No fuel transfer if nose tank more than 1/3 full?"
BTW, is your lower tank fitted with an overboard drain line off the top of
the tank? If I recall my reading of Bingelis properly, he suggests such a
line, exactly so you won't 'wear fuel' if you make a goof (your mileage may
vary, however).
Just a thought from a former Liberal Arts major :).
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: how to word a fuel transfer plate |
Ed,
My bride wants your address to send yaw'll a nice surprise from Brodhead.
Corky, still on dry land except for one foot in the swamp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: how to word a fuel transfer plate |
Ed,
Nah, just a thing from ultralights. Used to trying to get places with 5
gals. With a 2 1/2 gal container between my legs. Sounded kind of nice to
have the space on board to carry lots. Now I can get to Hawaii to get
"mouwi wowwi"
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how to word a fuel transfer plate
>
> Man Walt....Where are you going with all that fuel??? Are you planning
> to follow Corky on one of his "runs" across the Gulf of Mexico??? :-)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: how to word a fuel transfer plate "Fishnet" |
Kip,
That sounds good for starters. Except might have to say something like "2
inches full" cause I have a Cub type float on the front tank, and 2"
relates to about 4 gal.
thanks
walt
>
> How about "No fuel transfer if nose tank more than 1/3 full?"
>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Ed G.) |
| Subject: | Re: how to word a fuel transfer plate |
Moui wowwie sounds good Walt ...they say the only time you have too much
fuel is when your on fire. Good luck with your inspection. I'll be
looking for you at Brodhead next summer. Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | how to word a fuel transfer plate |
It would also depend on what kind of fuel gauge you have for the fwd tank.
If it is the wire and cork float sticking out of the fuel cap, you might
have to put some mark on the rod indicating where 1/3 full is. Or you could
say, don't transfer fuel til 3" or less of indicator rod is showing.
chris bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kip &
Beth Gardner
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how to word a fuel transfer plate "Fishnet"
>
>
>I'm in the final throws of getting ready for a final inspection on my
>Pietenpol Aircamper. 10 gal tank in the wing center, above. and 14 gals
>in a fwd "nose" tank. The plan is, when the fwd tank gets low, open a
>ball valve and transfer to the fwd tank.
>My AP mentor tells me that my plate isn't good enough with information.
>Has to tell not to transfer from the top tank till the nose tank is low
>enough, so I'm not wearing fuel with an overfull fwd tank.
>the question is,,,,,how can I say that on the plate with the least words,
>that's acceptible?
>thanks
>walt
>NX140DL
Walt,
How about "No fuel transfer if nose tank more than 1/3 full?"
BTW, is your lower tank fitted with an overboard drain line off the top of
the tank? If I recall my reading of Bingelis properly, he suggests such a
line, exactly so you won't 'wear fuel' if you make a goof (your mileage may
vary, however).
Just a thought from a former Liberal Arts major :).
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Botsford" <Botsford7(at)hot.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Tachometer problem |
I have a 65 hp Franklin engine in my GN-1 and the tach is not working properly.
Does anybody know of anybody who has one for sale or who repairs them? It reads
counterclockwise and is mechanical.
thanks,
Jon Botsford
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: how to word a fuel transfer plate "Fishnet" |
>
>
>Kip,
>That sounds good for starters. Except might have to say something like "2
>inches full" cause I have a Cub type float on the front tank, and 2"
>relates to about 4 gal.
>thanks
>walt
>>
>> How about "No fuel transfer if nose tank more than 1/3 full?"
Well, sounds like progress anyway :). Let us know what you finally come up
with. I'm planning a similar setup for my plane, so I'll probably have to
deal with the same issue somewhere down the line.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tachometer problem |
Jon,
My AP fixes all that stuff. If you want his phone #, let me know.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Botsford" <Botsford7(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tachometer problem
>
> I have a 65 hp Franklin engine in my GN-1 and the tach is not working
properly. Does anybody know of anybody who has one for sale or who repairs
them? It reads counterclockwise and is mechanical.
> thanks,
>
> Jon Botsford
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Tachometer problem |
Can you tell what brand it is? Does it have an hourmeter in it? It is most
likely either an AC or a Stewart-Warner. Can you send me a picture?
chris bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jon
Botsford
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tachometer problem
I have a 65 hp Franklin engine in my GN-1 and the tach is not working
properly. Does anybody know of anybody who has one for sale or who repairs
them? It reads counterclockwise and is mechanical.
thanks,
Jon Botsford
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seibert Bob-r18643 <Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tachometer problem |
Jon,
If your tach has one of those right-angle drive gear boxes on the back of it you
can probably replace it with a "normal" tach by switching the right-angle gearbox
around. Many of these gearboxes are made to be reversable by dismantling
them and putting the input into the opposite end where there is a plug now. If
you can do that, you are able to shop a much larger selection of tachs.
Regards,
Bob Seibert
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 2002 Benton, KS Fly-In |
| From: | "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
I'll be there, and another local builder is coming too. Maybe a couple of our
kids, but that's not a sure thing. I'm planning on bringing a cooler with some
burgers, didn't someone mention bringing a grill? And I'll contribute to
a porta-potty too.
Kent Hallsten
Oklahoma City
Hi Bret !!
The Benton, KS Fly-In will be on Saturday,October 12, 2002, at Benton
Airpark - about 10 miles NE of Wichita KS, on Rt. 254.
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita, KS
NX770CG
p.s. Lets start this thread to take a 'roll call' on people who think they
will be there.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: how to word a fuel transfer plate "Fishnet" |
The way I made something similar in my "XCountry" detachable tank that
I install in the rear seat of my Trike is:
hope I can explain it easy)
I divided this (Fiberglass) tank in two halfs with an interior wall
that has a 2" open on top of the wall inside, I have two valves (one
from each half tank) and open one at the time.
Each half tank has about half the main tank capacity, so when the main
tank is just a little lower of 1/2, (I have a green line mark) I open
one valve, then repeat it when necesary for the second. The two valves
are just below the seat, so I leave the empty valve open, so the one
closed is still full, I dont need to see them, just feel.
Need to remember to close both valves before filling :-)
The gasoline is filled through one filler neck in the middle of both
tanks so I can monitor the gasoline, I just watch carefully when
gasoline is reaching the 2" level, when both tanks are almost full,
then gasoline goes up fast!
Hope this helps.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- walter evans wrote:
>
>
> Kip,
> That sounds good for starters. Except might have to say something
> like "2
> inches full" cause I have a Cub type float on the front tank, and 2"
> relates to about 4 gal.
> thanks
> walt
> >
> > How about "No fuel transfer if nose tank more than 1/3 full?"
> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2002 Benton, KS Fly-In |
In a message dated 9/20/02 7:47:02 AM Central Daylight Time,
KHallsten(at)governair.com writes:
<< I'll be there, and another local builder is coming too. >>
Sounds great, Kent !! I have one small grill. Would everyone please get the
word out about our fly-in ? It is not yet sanctioned by the EAA, so it isn't
in the magazines.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: 2002 Benton, KS Fly-In |
Headquarters doesn't sanction fly-ins. They will publish the dates for
fly-ins if you get them into them in time to be included in the publication
schedule. If you don't notify EAA, it won't get printed. Pretty simple.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 2002 Benton, KS Fly-In
>
> In a message dated 9/20/02 7:47:02 AM Central Daylight Time,
> KHallsten(at)governair.com writes:
>
> << I'll be there, and another local builder is coming too. >>
> Sounds great, Kent !! I have one small grill. Would everyone please get
the
> word out about our fly-in ? It is not yet sanctioned by the EAA, so it
isn't
> in the magazines.
> Chuck Gantzer
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | 2002 Benton, KS Fly-In |
By the Way, I have also been told that you can get the date listed on the
EAA web site.
Note that you should also list the date and time in your communications.
Never know when someone reads you messages and decides to drop in.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 2002 Benton, KS Fly-In
> Headquarters doesn't sanction fly-ins. They will publish the dates for
> fly-ins if you get them into them in time to be included in the
publication
> schedule. If you don't notify EAA, it won't get printed. Pretty simple.
>
> Cy Galley
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 1:31 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 2002 Benton, KS Fly-In
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 9/20/02 7:47:02 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > KHallsten(at)governair.com writes:
> >
> > << I'll be there, and another local builder is coming too. >>
> > Sounds great, Kent !! I have one small grill. Would everyone please
get
> the
> > word out about our fly-in ? It is not yet sanctioned by the EAA, so it
> isn't
> > in the magazines.
> > Chuck Gantzer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
I'm doing my aileron horns this weekend. The piet plans call for 22 ga
steel. Does anybody know what the decimal equivalent is? I have all that
stuff somewhere but can't find it.
Also, what size aluminum tubing is appropriate for running along the spar
for the pitot/airspeed indicator system. That is, I will run a pressure
and a static tube along the inside of the front spar and connect to the
appropriate lines at the cabane strut and at the lift strut. I have some
3/16 in tubing. That should work shouldn't it. I dont thing the diameter
of the tubing should make a difference for pressure purposes - but I may
find it difficult to transition to the proper sizes needed for the airspeed
and or altimeter. Should I use 1/4 in instead?
Thanks, Bert
I've put a few new pictures on my recently resurrected (and still under
construction) website. I've got a few pictures of my wing construction as
well as the Boredom Fighter Larry Harrison has completed - it uses a Chevy
engine , too.
http://bconoly.tripod.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
Aircraft Spruce catalog (2000-2001 pg 67) says .0299 for 22 gauge so
that would mean .025 or .032 sheet. There is only about a .3 lb/sqft
weight difference between these and the .032 should be a little
easier to weld I would think.
As for the pressure and static tubing - Bingelis on pg 243 of
Sportplane Builder says 1/4" aluminum or plastic is standard. 3/8"
for gyro instruments.
Hope this helps
Kirk
>
>I'm doing my aileron horns this weekend. The piet plans call for 22 ga
>steel. Does anybody know what the decimal equivalent is? I have all that
>stuff somewhere but can't find it.
>Also, what size aluminum tubing is appropriate for running along the spar
>for the pitot/airspeed indicator system. That is, I will run a pressure
>and a static tube along the inside of the front spar and connect to the
>appropriate lines at the cabane strut and at the lift strut. I have some
>3/16 in tubing. That should work shouldn't it. I dont thing the diameter
>of the tubing should make a difference for pressure purposes - but I may
>find it difficult to transition to the proper sizes needed for the airspeed
>and or altimeter. Should I use 1/4 in instead?
>
>Thanks, Bert
>
>I've put a few new pictures on my recently resurrected (and still under
>construction) website. I've got a few pictures of my wing construction as
>well as the Boredom Fighter Larry Harrison has completed - it uses a Chevy
>engine , too.
>
>http://bconoly.tripod.com/
>
>
--
Kirk Huizenga and Bryan Eastep's Aircamper and Corvair Project
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList.cfm?Menu=PhotoGallery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
Does anyone have a source for 6 ft stainless steel closed loop piano hinges
(Aircraft Spruce,Wicks neither have)
Henry Williams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Larry H's Chev. engine |
Hi Burt C. : I'm planing to use the Ford- A "boat anchor", but because
of the reliability some Piets have with this engine I'm always looking
at other options including the Chevy 2.5 that Larry Harrison is is using
in the Boredom fighter and in Poplar Piet. Has anyone determined why
Poplar Piet suffered the engine failure with the Chevy 2.5? I used
22 thousands thick steel for my horns. It seemed too light at first, but
after hammering it into the airfoil shape and welding the 2 pieces
together they are plenty regid. Also I found that I could cut that
thickness with a tin snips making fabricating the horn halves simple and
fast. Thanks Leon S. Hutchinson Ks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2002 Benton, KS Fly-In |
In a message dated 9/21/02 11:18:51 AM Central Daylight Time,
cgalley(at)qcbc.org writes:
<< By the Way, I have also been told that you can get the date listed on the
EAA web site. >>
Thanks for the info, Cy. I just sent e-mail to chapters(at)eaa.org, although
it's probably too late for Sport Aviation publication, maybe they can get it
on the web site. Is that who I should have notified? Is there any another
web sites that I could post it on?
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita, KS
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Henry, Try West Marine boat supplies. Their stuff is high quality for
sailing. They have a good selection of hinges.
They also have guide hoops( I forget the exact name) that I used for cable
shackles. They work great and are a lot cheaper
than AS&S. There was a good discussion on that on here a while back, check
the archives. If you don't have a West Marine
in your area, they will send a free catalog.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: <Borodent(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:piano hinges
>
> Does anyone have a source for 6 ft stainless steel closed loop piano
hinges
> (Aircraft Spruce,Wicks neither have)
> Henry Williams
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
In a post to Henry, I mentioned the cable shackles from West Marine.
I went into the archives and found the post from Joe C. on them. Here it is.
[[[ I'll try to describe what I used. I picked up from West Marine, or
any marine supply house, stainless eye straps. the ones with 3/16 mounting
holes. these kind of look like the omega symbol with mounting holes on each
leg.
the loop portion is already formed to accept cables. I then took a 1/4"
drill
rod and reformed the ends around the rod so they face each other. did this
in a
small vice using a small piece of scrap strap as a spacer to keep the two
sides
from touching while reforming. to test them, I took a 1/8" cable with
nicopress
end loop with thimble, fastened to shackle with standard shackle pin. at
other
end I attached a turnbuckle rated at 2000#. other end of turn buckle I
attached
cable with loop and looped around the trailer hitch on my Ford Explorer.
other
end went through the reformed eyestrap and around a large tree. I then put
the
Ford in low range 4 wheel drive and slowly applied tension until something
gave. Well, the eye end of the turnbuckle separated mid way between the
threads
and the eye, the cable had 3 broken strands and the reformed eye strap
showed
very little hole elongation at the pin. to my way of thinking, this adapted
"shackle" proved plenty strong for it's intended use.
I hope this explanation is clear enough.
Naturally all the normal disclaimers apply.
By the way, the last eye straps I bought were $1.50 ea
regards
JoeC
]]]] Hope this helps anyone looking for an alternate shackle source. I
used them and they worked great.
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Stainless steel hinges |
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
Henry,
I did a Google search and found stamped stainless hinges listed at:
http://bosunsupplies.com/products2.cfm?product=L212
They are in 6 foot lengths and run $23 to $30 depending on width. If you
should decide to go with extruded aluminum I have a few I could sell for
considerably less than AS&S does.
Dick Hartwig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: 2002 Benton, KS Fly-In |
You might e-mail Steve Lark slark(at)eaa.org He is the webmaster for the EAA
site. You still haven't listed date for fly-in
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Pietenpol-List: 2002 Benton, KS Fly-In
>
> In a message dated 9/21/02 11:18:51 AM Central Daylight Time,
> cgalley(at)qcbc.org writes:
>
> << By the Way, I have also been told that you can get the date listed on
the
> EAA web site. >>
>
> Thanks for the info, Cy. I just sent e-mail to chapters(at)eaa.org, although
> it's probably too late for Sport Aviation publication, maybe they can get
it
> on the web site. Is that who I should have notified? Is there any
another
> web sites that I could post it on?
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> Wichita, KS
> NX770CG
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | steamlaunch(at)softhome.net |
| Subject: | Streamline Struts |
Hello,
Which size modern streamline tube is the piet comunity using in liew of
style 1667 on the Hoopman 33' Prints?
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamline Struts |
I bought extruded aluminum struts from SkyTek. About $900 cheaper than
4130 struts and easier to work with.
http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html
They are heavy duty.... stonger than they need to be, but inexpensive and
they look great polished!
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.raptoronline.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <steamlaunch(at)softhome.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Streamline Struts
>
> Hello,
>
> Which size modern streamline tube is the piet comunity using in liew of
> style 1667 on the Hoopman 33' Prints?
>
> Matt
>
>
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamline Struts |
The more common solution, though, is to find old Piper Cub struts and use
the rear struts. These are pretty easy to find and inexpensive because they
were removed for an AD on Cub struts.
Gene Rambo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | 4130 Streamlineed Lift Struts |
I bought my lift struts from The Dillsburg Aeroplane Works in January 2002 for
$463.61 including S&H.
DickG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2002 Benton, KS Fly-In |
Chuck,
Add (2) more to your "roll call" for Benton -- my Dad has missed the last
couple Brodheads due to failing eyesight, but he's determined to get to
Benton. (once a pilot.....!) We'll bring along our donations for the
rentals!
Has anyone connected Ken Perkins about coming over from Olathe, KS -- his
Model "A" engine forum was one of the highlights at Brodhead this year!!
See ya at Benton!
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kent Hallsten" <hallstenokc(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2002 Benton, KS Fly-In |
Why not post a note about the fly-in to rec.aviation.homebuilt, and the other
rec.aviation newsgroups?
Kent Hallsten
Oklahoma City
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Pietenpol-List: 2002 Benton, KS Fly-In
>
> In a message dated 9/21/02 11:18:51 AM Central Daylight Time,
> cgalley(at)qcbc.org writes:
>
> << By the Way, I have also been told that you can get the date listed on the
> EAA web site. >>
>
> Thanks for the info, Cy. I just sent e-mail to chapters(at)eaa.org, although
> it's probably too late for Sport Aviation publication, maybe they can get it
> on the web site. Is that who I should have notified? Is there any another
> web sites that I could post it on?
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> Wichita, KS
> NX770CG
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Has anyone built floats for the Piet? I was paging through the Flying and Glider
Manual looking at that design. Are there any other designs out there that
might be better.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
Dick,
I am not a float expert but I do know that the ones in the F & G Manual are
too short. To keep from tipping fore or aft, it is necessary to have a long
float.
chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
Navratril
Subject: Pietenpol-List: floats
Has anyone built floats for the Piet? I was paging through the Flying and
Glider Manual looking at that design. Are there any other designs out there
that might be better.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Streamline Struts |
Matt,
I will look it up but it will tomarrow before I get back to you.
chris bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
steamlaunch(at)softhome.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Streamline Struts
Hello,
Which size modern streamline tube is the piet comunity using in liew of
style 1667 on the Hoopman 33' Prints?
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Couple of questions |
I remember several years back of seeing a 3D drawing of the Aircamper on someone's
web page. Is that still available? Are most of the Cub style gears fabricated
or are they salvaged Cub gear? What iseach spar length on a 3 piece wing?
Thanks
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Couple of questions |
I have a 3D rendering of an Air Camper that I drew on my site. I also have
the 3D model file for anyone who wants it. I have cub gear on mine that I
used straight from a 1942 Cub. My spars are a bit over 13 feet long.
DJ Vegh
www.raptoronline.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Couple of questions
>
>
> I remember several years back of seeing a 3D drawing of the Aircamper on
someone's web page. Is that still available? Are most of the Cub style gears
fabricated or are they salvaged Cub gear? What iseach spar length on a 3
piece wing?
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Larry Ragan
> Jacksonville, Fl.
> lragan(at)hotmail.com
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Check out www.ultrlightfloats.com
Pietenpol CF-AFN, powered with an 80 hp
Armstrong-Siddeley Genet radial, registered
on Feb 1935 is pictured on floats in 1937 in
Ontario ( Canada, that is.). They're quite
widely spaced, about 6' on centers from what
I can see. They also look commercial. This AC
later "disapeared from the register", another
Pietenpol mystery. Just like the very old
frame and wings I ran across at an old airstrip.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: floats
>
> Has anyone built floats for the Piet? I was paging through the Flying and
Glider Manual looking at that design. Are there any other designs out there
that might be better.
> Dick
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
Hi Bert,
22 ga steel is still available. I found some at an Ace hardware about a mile
from work. Got a sheet about 8" X 24" for less than $4.00.
Used it on the aileron horn on the tork tube, came out nice and real strong.
Skip
>I'm doing my aileron horns this weekend. The piet plans call for 22 ga
>steel.
>I've put a few new pictures on my recently resurrected (and still under
>construction) website. I've got a few pictures of my wing construction as
>well as the Boredom Fighter Larry Harrison has completed - it uses a Chevy
>engine , too.
http://bconoly.tripod.com/
Great website!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
Henry,
You can find all the hinges you might need at McMaster-Carr. The web site is www.mcmaster.com . Stainless .060 thick, 1-1/2" wide 72" long is 11.71... (nice). They have extruded aluminum military-standard piano hinge, if you decide to go with that. But 72" of that, 1-1/2" wide is $63.00. (ouch)
Kent Hallsten
Oklahoma City
Does anyone have a source for 6 ft stainless steel closed loop piano hinges
(Aircraft Spruce,Wicks neither have)
Henry Williams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
Gage to decimal conversion for TUBING
11 ga .120
12 ga N/A
13 ga .095
14 ga .083
16 ga .065
17 ga .058
18 ga .049
20 ga .035
22 ga .028
Gage to decimal conversion for SHEET
11 ga .125
12 ga .100
13 ga .090
14 ga .080
16 ga .063
18 ga .050
20 ga .040
22 ga .032 or .025
Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis
>>> bconoly(at)earthlink.net 09/21/02 08:26PM >>>
I'm doing my aileron horns this weekend. The piet plans call for 22 ga
steel. Does anybody know what the decimal equivalent is? I have all
that
stuff somewhere but can't find it.
Also, what size aluminum tubing is appropriate for running along the
spar
for the pitot/airspeed indicator system. That is, I will run a
pressure
and a static tube along the inside of the front spar and connect to the
appropriate lines at the cabane strut and at the lift strut. I have
some
3/16 in tubing. That should work shouldn't it. I dont thing the
diameter
of the tubing should make a difference for pressure purposes - but I may
find it difficult to transition to the proper sizes needed for the
airspeed
and or altimeter. Should I use 1/4 in instead?
Thanks, Bert
I've put a few new pictures on my recently resurrected (and still under
construction) website. I've got a few pictures of my wing construction
as
well as the Boredom Fighter Larry Harrison has completed - it uses a
Chevy
engine , too.
http://bconoly.tripod.com/
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
| Subject: | Couple of questions |
Hi Larry,
You can use a Cub gear on a GN1. Grega put an extra bay in his fuselage side
so a vertical brace and diagonal strut would end up at the same location on
the lower longeron as the aft L/G attach point.
The dimension between the front and aft L/G attach points on the Piet is a
little over 28" which is different than that dimension on the Cub L/G.
Skip
>Are most of the Cub style gears fabricated or are they salvaged Cub gear?
>Larry Ragan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Richard asked:
>Has anyone built floats for the Piet?
I asked the same question some months ago and the feeling I got is that
nobody ever has; however, it certainly looks possible. I have blueprints
and a construction manual for a set of homebuilt wood floats, designed by
MukTuk floats (http://www.ultralightfloats.com). I wrote to Cress Walker at
MukTuk and he tells me that he can design floats for the Pietenpol, no
problem. What he does is take his basic design and scale it depending on
the aircraft gross weight and a few other factors, then sells you that
design with an agreement that only one set is to be built from those plans.
Standard type of agreement. The plans are nicely done, and the construction
is easy (yeah, I should be talking about 'easy', having never built a set!)
He also offers accessories such as water rudders, fittings, and also
mounting brackets for some designs.
As far as "are there any other designs out there that are better", who
knows? There are always aluminum floats and Full Lotus inflatables, but
you're talking $$. The beauty of homebuilt floats is that you can save
money and have fun building them too.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
In going through F&G 1931 I also found the Heath Parasol floats which are
shorter than the Piet floats but made of wood. I may combine the two
designs and lengthen them a bit. This would go on my new long fuselage. I
have decided to dig deep into the pocket and power it with a Rotec R-2800
radial ( see Sport
Aviation July 2002 , page 48). If someone can tell me how to do it, I will
post a picture of this fuselage.
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: floats
>
> Dick,
>
> I am not a float expert but I do know that the ones in the F & G Manual
are
> too short. To keep from tipping fore or aft, it is necessary to have a
long
> float.
>
> chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
> Navratril
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: floats
>
>
>
>
> Has anyone built floats for the Piet? I was paging through the Flying and
> Glider Manual looking at that design. Are there any other designs out
there
> that might be better.
> Dick
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
There is at least one precedent for float installation on a Pietenpol:
On Page 5 of the 3rd. Quarter 1975 INTERNATIONAL PIETENPOL
NEWS (IPA) there is a photograph of CF-AQI on floats, at Sault Ste.
Marie, Ontario. D. A. Walker was reported as owner and the photo
is dated September 2, 1972. This aircraft had Piper J-3 landing
gear legs which were retained for the float installation. (It could be a
GN-1 because of the Cub legs.)
The floats appear to be of commercial design and manufacture, and
could be Edo 1320 or slightly smaller. The opposed engine is fully
cowled and it is not easy to determine what make or model it was.
In another publication during the 1980's (I think) there was an account
of a Pietenpol on floats powered by a Lycoming engine. It was located
somewhere in eastern Canada and was referred to as "the hottest thing
on the river". It too was equipped with what seemed to be Edo floats. I
don't think it was the same airplane mentioned above, but will check on
this.
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ol-List:Radial Engine |
| From: | Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
on 9/23/02 12:09, Richard Navratril at horzpool(at)goldengate.net wrote:
> I have decided to dig deep into the pocket and power it (Piet) with a Rotec
> R-2800 radial ( see Sport Aviation July 2002 , page 48).
For those of you who haven't already been to the web site and drooled,
Rotec's beautiful, and pricey, little radial can be viewed at:
http://www.warbuddies.homestead.com/Rotec.html
or
http://www.rotecradialengines.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | weight and balance results for NX140DL |
Figured I'd share my results of the weight and balance for my plane for the archives.
This way new builders can decide which engine and fuse length to select
for their "body weight".
I built the long fuselage 99.9% to the print (piano hinges on the ailerons
instead of the barn door hinges), but basically no other changes. Using a Continental
A-65 with the mount to the print, except extending the engine forward
1 3/4" to guestimate the W/B for my weight.
covered with 1.7 oz dacron with Poly fiber system to the manual.
The figures came in where I had to move the wing back 3" from vertical struts ,to
get "worst case W/B" to work. Would have thought that with extending the
mount, that would have covered it.
I have a 14 gal nose tank, and also the original tank in the wing that holds 10
gals.
Can't imagine where the wing would be if I didn't have the nose tank.
When building, I thought the nose tank would be a problem,,,turned out to be a
big help.
The worst things that I have to do is make new "angled struts for the front to
the engine mount" and new cowlings where the cross cabling goes through.
Oh Well
walt
NX140DL
(north NJ)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
> The floats appear to be of commercial design and manufacture, and
> could be Edo 1320 or slightly smaller. The opposed engine is fully
> cowled and it is not easy to determine what make or model it was.
When Pete Bowers put his Fly Baby on floats, he tried a set of Edo 990
floats -- there is a series of photos in "Air Progress" (?) showing Pete
going inverted (on the water -- it happened just taxing around!) last shot
is Pete swimming out from under the up-side down Fly Baby -- it worked
great with the next size floats (Edo 1070)
I remember somewhere that you needed a 50% increase in power to keep the
same performance when you went to floats -- otherwise you ended up with a
long dramatic "China Clipper" style takeoff!!
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
Oscar,
I agree that the Muk Tuks are the way to go. If one has the EAA book on the
collection of Peter Bowers' articles on building the Fly Baby, there is a
section near the back about how he put Edo 990 (I think) floats on it and
how he flipped it and nearly killed himself. The book goes on to discuss
the fact that the floats need to be nearly as long as the fuselage, although
moved forward a bit in addtion to having the step properly located vs CG.
Not to mention the shift forward in the CP of the vertical surfaces
resulting in decreased directional stability.
I think that going with the muktuks gives you seaworthy float gear with
early 1930's looks. The 54-1140 Edo floats I have, to put on a Cub someday,
are dated 1938 and the design was not new then.
chris bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Subject: Pietenpol-List: floats
Richard asked:
>Has anyone built floats for the Piet?
I asked the same question some months ago and the feeling I got is that
nobody ever has; however, it certainly looks possible. I have blueprints
and a construction manual for a set of homebuilt wood floats, designed by
MukTuk floats (http://www.ultralightfloats.com). I wrote to Cress Walker at
MukTuk and he tells me that he can design floats for the Pietenpol, no
problem. What he does is take his basic design and scale it depending on
the aircraft gross weight and a few other factors, then sells you that
design with an agreement that only one set is to be built from those plans.
Standard type of agreement. The plans are nicely done, and the construction
is easy (yeah, I should be talking about 'easy', having never built a set!)
He also offers accessories such as water rudders, fittings, and also
mounting brackets for some designs.
As far as "are there any other designs out there that are better", who
knows? There are always aluminum floats and Full Lotus inflatables, but
you're talking $$. The beauty of homebuilt floats is that you can save
money and have fun building them too.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: weight and balance results for NX140DL |
In a message dated 9/23/02 6:50:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< The figures came in where I had to move the wing back 3" from vertical
struts ,to get "worst case W/B" to work. >>
Walter, how far behind the leading edge is your empty weight C.G.? Gross
weight C.G.? Zero fuel with Pilot C.G.?
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
NX770CG
14 hrs logged
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
>
>
>In going through F&G 1931 I also found the Heath Parasol floats which are
>shorter than the Piet floats but made of wood. I may combine the two
>designs and lengthen them a bit. This would go on my new long fuselage. I
>have decided to dig deep into the pocket and power it with a Rotec R-2800
>radial ( see Sport
>Aviation July 2002 , page 48). If someone can tell me how to do it, I will
>post a picture of this fuselage.
>Dick Navratil
Dick,
There's another small radial out on the market (American Co.) that seems to
be better-sized than the ROTEC. I don't remember the name of the Co. right
off hand, but I found the link via the Fly-Baby web site, because the Co.
is using a F-B as it's test bed. Engine is a 5-cyl. weighing about 160 &
producing 80-85hp. Uses VW cylinders on a radial hub, with custom,
dual-plug heads on each cylinder. I think the complete engine, ready to
install runs about 14k, or you can buy plans and/or components to any
degree of completion & build your own.
I saw the ROTEC, static & flying, at MERFI, it's a very pretty engine, but
looks oversized even on a Kitfox V.
If you're interested, I'll find the other site & post it.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | radial engine was floats |
They are HCI. I think they are trying to sell the company though. Or they
need funding.
http://hciaviation.com/
-Gary McNeel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kip &
> Beth Gardner
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 8:04 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: floats
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >In going through F&G 1931 I also found the Heath Parasol floats which are
> >shorter than the Piet floats but made of wood. I may combine the two
> >designs and lengthen them a bit. This would go on my new long
> fuselage. I
> >have decided to dig deep into the pocket and power it with a Rotec R-2800
> >radial ( see Sport
> >Aviation July 2002 , page 48). If someone can tell me how to do
> it, I will
> >post a picture of this fuselage.
> >Dick Navratil
>
> Dick,
>
> There's another small radial out on the market (American Co.)
> that seems to
> be better-sized than the ROTEC. I don't remember the name of the Co. right
> off hand, but I found the link via the Fly-Baby web site, because the Co.
> is using a F-B as it's test bed. Engine is a 5-cyl. weighing about 160 &
> producing 80-85hp. Uses VW cylinders on a radial hub, with custom,
> dual-plug heads on each cylinder. I think the complete engine, ready to
> install runs about 14k, or you can buy plans and/or components to any
> degree of completion & build your own.
>
> I saw the ROTEC, static & flying, at MERFI, it's a very pretty engine, but
> looks oversized even on a Kitfox V.
>
> If you're interested, I'll find the other site & post it.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> 426 Schneider St. SE
> North Canton, OH 44720
> (330) 494-1775
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAGEEHUM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Oil Prime on C75-12 |
Hi folks. This is my first time to communicate through this list. I have a
Pietenpol project that seems to be getting close to completion after many
years.
I have a Continental C75-12 that has been in storage for some time. I hung
it on the plane last week, pulled off the lower plugs and hand propped it to
see if I had oil pressure. No luck. The oil pump apparently lost its'
prime. I had a Continental C85 on a Culver years ago, and it would
occasionally do this and the mechanic would squirt some oil in somewhere and
it would work. I don't remember where he put the oil in, and I can't find
any guidance in the Continental repair manual. Any suggestions?
Bob Humbert
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Prime on C75-12 |
Bob,
Remove the oil temperature bulb from the oil screen and shoot
some oil into the oil screen with a squirt can. Re-install the O.T.
bulb and give it a try. After the engine starts, oil pressure should
be indicated within 30 seconds. If not, shut down and investigate
further.
Really, if your engine has been out of service that long it should
be pre-oiled using a pressure pump to fill the oil passages and
coat bearing surfaces while being turned over by hand. Then,
when the engine starts for the first time you won't have metal-to-
metal contact and a high wear rate.
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Oil Prime on C75-12 |
Bob,
Remove the oil temp capillary/bulb and squirt oil in there. Once oil starts
coming out the hole you are squirting into, then put the oil temp stuff back
in and then lift the tail of the aircraft up so this oil flows down into the
pump gears.
Chris Bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
MAGEEHUM(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oil Prime on C75-12
Hi folks. This is my first time to communicate through this list. I have a
Pietenpol project that seems to be getting close to completion after many
years.
I have a Continental C75-12 that has been in storage for some time. I hung
it on the plane last week, pulled off the lower plugs and hand propped it to
see if I had oil pressure. No luck. The oil pump apparently lost its'
prime. I had a Continental C85 on a Culver years ago, and it would
occasionally do this and the mechanic would squirt some oil in somewhere and
it would work. I don't remember where he put the oil in, and I can't find
any guidance in the Continental repair manual. Any suggestions?
Bob Humbert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: weight and balance results for NX140DL |
Chuck,
First let me say that these figures are very close, but not the final
numbers. I found myself doing some of the final assy to the instrument
panel, and I kept thinking that if my CG is way off and have to move the
wing, all this has to come apart.
So I set up to do a "rough" weight and balance. This was not with every
sheet metal screw in place, but is was done with all cowlings in place or
figured in. I figure the final W/B won't increase 10# max. and that will
be in the cockpit area which won't change C'G much.
Here they are after moving wing to final position,,,,,
1. Empty weight CG= 10.4" aft of leading edge.
2. Gross weight CG= 18.3" aft of leading edge
3. Low fuel (4 gals) and pilot only= 19.4" aft of leading edge
walt
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: weight and balance results for NX140DL
>
> In a message dated 9/23/02 6:50:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
> wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
>
> << The figures came in where I had to move the wing back 3" from vertical
> struts ,to get "worst case W/B" to work. >>
>
> Walter, how far behind the leading edge is your empty weight C.G.? Gross
> weight C.G.? Zero fuel with Pilot C.G.?
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> Wichita KS
> NX770CG
> 14 hrs logged
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | "To Fly" magazine article |
The 48-page Fall 2002 issue of Sport Aviation Association's "To Fly"
magazine is now in the mail to SAA members.
Although a lot of this issue is a report, with color photos, of the First
Annual SAA get-together at Rudy Frasca's airport in Urbana IL, there are a
couple of articles of interest to Piet people. William Wynne has a 3 page
article titled "Corvair: The Plans Built Motor with 42 Years of Flying
Behind It." Included is a sidebar titled "Corvair by the Numbers."
A full discussion with sketches delves into the "Analysis of Pietenpol
Ailerons" by Bob and John Whittier. If you have ever wondered about the
rigging and geometry of the Piet ailerons as laid out on the Piet plans,
here is required reading. The gist of the article is that "despite the
suggestive control horn angles, things make sense and the control cable
movements are in equilibrium and show us that the Pietenpol definitely does
not have differential ailerons." Bob Whittier gives a kudo to BHP with
"So, why the angles shown in Fig. 1? Elementary, my dear Watson! It is so
the ends of the horns [the aileron horns at the bottom of the cockpit
control stick] won't contact the plywood cockpit floor when the stick is
moved from side to side. That fellow Bernie Pietenpol never went to
engineering college, but he certainly was able to figure things out very
cleverly indeed!"
A full color photo of a Bleriot XI making the first of 10 flights at
Brodhead lst April - 4 pages of "Tips for Homebuilders" with sketches
- "Wings and Fuselage for the Driggs Dart" by Ivan Driggs (1931) - a bunch
of other articles and photos of past and present homebuilts.
Want to join SAA? It's easy! Just submit your name and address to SAA
headquarters. SAA is unique in that it has no formal dues structure. Each
member places his or her own monetary value on being a member. It it is
not possible to contribute at this time, that's okay, because we want
everyone to be a part of SAA who wishes to be. You need only send in your
application to be a member. Donations are used to publish and distribute
our magazine, To Fly, occasional newsletters and maintain our website. As
a member, you receive SAA's quarterly publication, To Fly, and a membership
card signed by SAA founder, Paul H. Poberezny, and the knowledge that you
are supporting grassroots aviation.
Sport Aviation Association
P.O.Box 2343
Oshkosh WI 54903-2343
E-mail: saa(at)sportvaviation.org
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | catdesigns(at)juno.com |
A few week ago I asked about what to do to my metal fittings before I
sprayed on some primer to keep the rust away while I build. I found this
good article by none other then Tony Bengalis. Thought some of you might
also be interested.
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/building/basics/Rust%20Protectio
n.html#TopOfPage
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: weight and balance results for NX140DL |
In a message dated 9/24/02 7:11:32 PM Central Daylight Time,
wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< Here they are after moving wing to final position,,,,,
1. Empty weight CG= 10.4" aft of leading edge.
2. Gross weight CG= 18.3" aft of leading edge
3. Low fuel (4 gals) and pilot only= 19.4" aft of leading edge >>
Walt, those numbers look pretty good. Ya just gotta be careful of that aft
limit of 20", or 1/3 of the chord. This is the aft limit that B.H.P.
called out. It is further aft than any other plane I've ever heard of,
probably because of the pitching moment of the undercambered airfoil.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Walt's CG numbers and nose fuel tanks----- NX140DL |
Walt----Your W&B numbers are almost exactly like how mine turned out. In
fact your
whole setup with the nose tank, extending the BHP 65 hp Cont. motor mount
plans somewhat are quite similar to mine. You should have a nicely
balanced Piet unless you either gain weight, let someone heavier than you
fly it, run way low on fuel in the nose tank, or add wt. to the
tail:) Actually the nose tank has been a big benefit to me. 1) it is
easy to fuel. You don't need to climb up all over the wing, you can even
fuel it without a ladder if needed from either a 5 gallon container or a
fuel hose. A full nose tank gives you a nice, nice flying
Piet. (remember when we used to have to tape a penny to the nose of our 25
cent balsa models from the corner store ?) As you burn fuel from the nose
it sounds like you'll be able to drain fuel from your CC tank in there to
keep the wt. up front where you want it. Super. Also, even as you burn
fuel on a x-country flight, you'll notice you'll have to hold the nose up a
bit more and more as your fuel burns off. On a really low nose tank, the
nose will come up really easy (too easy) and flaring for landing in that
condition does not nearly take the pull that it does with a full nose
tank. Anyway....nuff of my ramblings. Great to hear of your consistent
progress !!!!!!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Walt's CG numbers and nose fuel tanks----- NX140DL |
Walt,
Looking at my Pietenpol weight and balance document, I find my
numbers very close to yours:
EWCG location is 10.5 inches aft of datum and with minimum fuel
(22 lb.) in the nose tank, a 200 lb. pilot plus a 200 lb. passenger, the
CG is located 18.9 inches aft of datum (wing L.E.). My wing is po-
sitioned approximately 3 inches aft of the plans location.
These figures are with a C85 - 8 engine and a wooden propeller.
Currently, I have a C85 - 12 (sans electrics) installed. It is slightly
heavier than the -8 engine, moving the CG a little bit forward ---
which is good. The C85 gives a reserve of power so that I can trim
longitudinally in flight merely by adjusting the power. As fuel is burned
off the power is reduced to maintain trim.
I agree with Mike C. regarding the advantages of the nose tank over
the wing tank, but an auxiliary tank in the center section holding an
extra hour of fuel would be nice --- except my personal endurance
is already exceeded by that of the airplane. The nose tank holds
about 14 US gallons which is sufficient for short trips and local flying.
As Mike says, you should be OK with these numbers provided loads
don't change too much.
Cheers,
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Mike C. (the other one) wrote:
>I remember somewhere that you needed a 50% increase in power to keep
>the same performance when you went to floats -- otherwise you ended up
>with a long dramatic "China Clipper" style takeoff!!
So use a Corvair! Compare the power of an "original" Ford-powered Piet to
the output of a clean Corvair. Should be ample! Not only that, but you can
then say you operate a watercraft that also flies, using automotive power.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I am not planning on using a cowling with the radial. The trick is going to be
estimating W-B for building the engine mount with a long fuselage. I did a cardboard
mock up of the engine and I think the size will be great. If I decide
to build floats, the 100 hp. should do it.
I talked with Brian Henneman, the U.S. rep and he offered his help on this. I
won't be ordering the engine till spring anyway.
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shawn Wolk" <shawnwolk(at)sprint.ca> |
I phoned the guy in Sault Ste. Marie (CF-AQI) a few months ago and he sent me
some pictures. He no longer owns the aircraft. The aircraft is mostly a Piet
in style. I believe he said it had a 150 hp engine and it specifally built
for hauling stuff. I think the wing was 36' span as well. It's also rated at about
500 lbs of gross over traditional Piets. I was hoping to use it for a roadmap
for putting mine on floats but no such luck.
This winter I am going to try Federal 1500 skis on my A-65 powered Piet and
am planning to build a set of MUKTUK wooden floats. These were written up in a
few magazine articles. He sizes the plans and sells wood kits for wood floats
up to 1200# gross. At reasonable prices to. I've spoken to a lot of experienced
float flyers about my idea and with the A-65 was told it would be a one seater
with any type of acceptable performance.
If you want to look at these floats check out http://www.ultralightfloats.com/ .
Shawn Wolk
1932 Pietenpol Aircamper (steel fuselage)
C-FRAZ (formerly CF-AUK)
Winnipeg, MB
On Page 5 of the 3rd. Quarter 1975 INTERNATIONAL PIETENPOL
NEWS (IPA) there is a photograph of CF-AQI on floats, at Sault Ste.
Marie, Ontario. D. A. Walker was reported as owner and the photo
is dated September 2, 1972. This aircraft had Piper J-3 landing
gear legs which were retained for the float installation. (It could be a
GN-1 because of the Cub legs.)
The floats appear to be of commercial design and manufacture, and
could be Edo 1320 or slightly smaller. The opposed engine is fully
cowled and it is not easy to determine what make or model it was.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
With all the talk about radials I haven't heard anyone mention the radial
powered Piet that was at Brodhead this summer. I believe it had a 145 hp
warner on it. it looked huge on that little Piet. the prop made a 72" Model
A prop look like a toy and the thing climbed out at about a 30 degree angle.
It sounded like it was idleing at cruise speed and I spent the whole weekend
trying to figure out why it stayed on the front of the fuselage. It was
uncowled and I thought it looked and sounded great.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Finding the sweet spot |
Is there any set way of finding the ideal position of the prop in relation
to the compression stroke. For instance, with
the prop in the two oclock postion, where would the number one cylinder be
in relation to the cycle? I've got the corvair
started a couple of times but I feel I'm not getting the best prop pull on
it. If there is a little trick or procedure that might
make it go better, I would sure love to hear it.
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
Just when I thought I had covered all the holes my DAR called and asked?
Where did you pick up that X on your tail number. Your registration plainly
shows N41CC. I can't certify an aircraft with this difference. Where did
you come up with the X business. I say, Mike Cuy told me. He says, Who is
Mike Cuy? I say, he's the one in Ohio who told all of us about the X
business. Sorry Mike for using your name in panic. He says, well, I'll try to
check with FAA, but I'll have to have some resolution on this incompatability
before I can inspect it.
Do any of you Piets have any experience on this problem? Does Oak City issue
registrations with the X number?
Corky in a panic in dry NW La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Incompatability |
Corky !!! Guess what ??? Your DAR needs to learn a new thing
today. OKC City does not, they absolutely do not recognize the X in your
registration. It will NOT show up on any of your paperwork, nada, nothing,
zippo.....EXCEPT your TAIL LETTERING ! Aha ! So there.
Basically you can tell your FAA man (or DAR) that the X is merely a letter
designation in the N-number that is allowable in lieu of the big ugly
EXPERIMENTAL lettering normally required for homebuilts-----since this
design is over 30 years of age and is allowed for by the FAR's....which
I'll post in a bit. Hope this clears it up and feel free to print this
out for him and if he has any questions on this issue he can call the guy
who inspected my airplane (FAA MIDO Cleveland Office) and I'll give you
(off-line) his name and phone number. My guy was not sure about this
issue either, but I had the hot little FAR in my hand to show him when HE
showed up for my inspection. You don't need any petty delays just
because the DAR doesn't know the rules !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Corky,
I picked up the latest copy of the FAA's Amateur Built Aircraft Reference
Manual at Oshkosh this summer. In it, under section AC 20-27E, section 11.
"Identification and Registration Marking", Part d. says:
"... In accordance with section 45.23(b), the word "Experimental" shall be
displayed on the aircraft near each entrance to the cabin or cockpit in
letters not less than 2 inches and not more than 6 inches in height. If the
amateur-built aircraft has the same external configuration (i.e., is a
replica) of a small aircraft built at least 30 years ago, the size of the
nationality and registration markings must be at least 2 inches high. For
replica aircraft only, the letter "X" may be used and the word
"Experimental" would not be required. For example, markings on an
amateur-built replica of an antique aircraft would be "NX1234." The
letter/symbol used should be appropriate for the airworthiness certificate
of the aircraft being certificated, not the aircraft being replicated."
It goes on to say:
NOTE: Part 45 subpart C provides specific marking requirements for all
aircraft. AC 45-2, Identification and Registration Marking, provides
additional guidance and information and describes accaeptable means of
complying with marking requirements. Any questions in this area should be
resolved on an individual basis through consultation with the FAA office
that will perform the airworthiness certification.
My guess is this won't be easy, but maybe by quoting regs and showing the
DAR pictures of Mike Cuy's plane with his NX48MC markings clearly visible,
he can be persuaded. Let us know how it comes out - I'll be doing the same
thing in about a year. OK City does not issue the NX number, but you add
the X after the registration number is issued.
Good luck,
Jack - Taking the day off to work on the Pietenpol since Isidore's remnants
are making it too wet to do anything else, trying to get it ready for the
Centennial of Flight Exposition at Kittyhawk, NC in December 2003.
Pieters,
Just when I thought I had covered all the holes my DAR called and asked?
Where did you pick up that X on your tail number. Your registration plainly
shows N41CC. I can't certify an aircraft with this difference. Where did
you come up with the X business. I say, Mike Cuy told me. He says, Who is
Mike Cuy? I say, he's the one in Ohio who told all of us about the X
business. Sorry Mike for using your name in panic. He says, well, I'll try
to
check with FAA, but I'll have to have some resolution on this
incompatability
before I can inspect it.
Do any of you Piets have any experience on this problem? Does Oak City issue
registrations with the X number?
Corky in a panic in dry NW La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Incompatability |
You should contact Information service or Randy Hansen on this question as
all the information you are asking for does exists and its on the EAA
member web page. This is one of the many benefits of EAA membership.
The toll free number in any EAA magazine.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Incompatability
>
> Pieters,
> Just when I thought I had covered all the holes my DAR called and asked?
> Where did you pick up that X on your tail number. Your registration
plainly
> shows N41CC. I can't certify an aircraft with this difference. Where did
> you come up with the X business. I say, Mike Cuy told me. He says, Who is
> Mike Cuy? I say, he's the one in Ohio who told all of us about the X
> business. Sorry Mike for using your name in panic. He says, well, I'll try
to
> check with FAA, but I'll have to have some resolution on this
incompatability
> before I can inspect it.
> Do any of you Piets have any experience on this problem? Does Oak City
issue
> registrations with the X number?
> Corky in a panic in dry NW La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Incompatability |
Dear Cy,
I joined
Corky EAA #7090
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Incompatability |
Got me beat EAA #71015
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Incompatability
>
> Dear Cy,
> I joined
> Corky EAA #7090
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
Thanks to all for the help in solving my early morning plight. My DAR tells
me he is a believer, as well as the FAA in these parts and all fall in line
behind Mike Cuy singing Dixie and Yankee Doodle. He even mentioned he MIGHT
fly over in the morning and issue an AWC on old NX41CC. Thanks again to all
those interested.
Corky in beautiful La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | the -6 means you have a fuselage fuel tank? |
Corky,
Just making sure that you have a fuselage tank for fuel and no wing tank?
That is why the -6?
Also, if you can confirm this fuselage tank issue, I will compute most aft
and most forward CG (worse case loading scenarios)and this could be noted on
the paperwork too. Have you proposed CG limits fore and aft?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | what about unuseable fuel? |
Corky,
Have you determined a number yet for unuseable fuel or are you going to do
some climb with acceleration tests while airborme to determine the min fuel
that will still allow the engine to run?
Need this for the aft most CG worst case scenario with near empty fuel and
185 lb pilot and no passenger and 6 lbs of gloves in the glovebox.
Forward most CG worst case is pilot and passenger and full fuel and nothing
in the glovebox.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com> |
Hey gents,
I have my rib wood, and my T-88, and have picked up a sheet of 1/8 plywood
from Aircraft Spruce a few weeks back. My dilema, our house is closing escrow
in two weeks, and I want to cut up the gusset material. My plans manual is already
packed, and from what i can tell from the rib drawing, the gussets seem to
be pretty uniform at 1 1/2" x 7/8" in size. If I cut out enough to do what appears
to be 26 gusstes on each rib (times 32 ribs ), will 1 1/2" x 7/8" be O.K.?
I don't want to store the gusset plywood, and DO WANT to start building the
ribs as soon as I get moved in to a new place. I figure cutting them out will
keep the plywood from warping in storage, and be able to pack them in a neat
little box for easy access after the move. What does this sound like to you who
have built your wings already? I appreciate your help. Newbie ready to lay
saws to wood,
Doug Blackburn
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
ArrowBear Lake Ca.
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: the -6 means you have a fuselage fuel tank? |
Chris, that is what I've been doing all afternoon
Figured my forward with full fuel 16 gals, no pass and 100 lb pilot. Came to
1.382 aft of datum or 24%. Figured my rearward max with 185 lb pilot, 170 lb
pass, full fuel 96 lbs and full baggage 6 lbs. Came to 19.42 aft of datum or
32%. I think this is in the park. Thanks for your interest Chris, I hope all
goes well tomorning.
Corky in beautiful La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rib gusstes, |
Doug,
Go hide that saw. Take that 1/8 back and get you some 1/16 THEN do your
cutting.
Corky in La where all the mistakes have been made at least once, maybe more
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Finding the sweet spot |
Carl,
I'll post this on the corvaircraft list and see what people come up with.
Kirk
>
>Is there any set way of finding the ideal position of the prop in relation
>to the compression stroke. For instance, with
>the prop in the two oclock postion, where would the number one cylinder be
>in relation to the cycle? I've got the corvair
>started a couple of times but I feel I'm not getting the best prop pull on
>it. If there is a little trick or procedure that might
>make it go better, I would sure love to hear it.
>Carl
>
>
--
Kirk Huizenga and Bryan Eastep's Aircamper and Corvair Project
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList.cfm?Menu=PhotoGallery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
No, keep the plywood--you'll need it for the fuselage, but get some 1/16
inch for the ribs. Remember, not all of the gussets are 1 1/2 inches long.
There are a bunch of little square ones, and a bunch of longer (random)
length.
Gene Hubbard
-----Original Message-----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com [mailto:Isablcorky(at)aol.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib gusstes,
Doug,
Go hide that saw. Take that 1/8 back and get you some 1/16 THEN do your
cutting.
Corky in La where all the mistakes have been made at least once, maybe more
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Doug: You have the right idea, but you need 1/16 ply for your ribs. Use
the 1/8 for your fus. gussets, bulkheads, etc. I cut my gusset material
in 3/4 wide strips on a band saw, then cut gussets out of the strips of
ply with tin snips. The trailing edge gusset is a little wider. I cut
1'' wide ply strips for those. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | what is the fwd max CG? |
with all this figuring going on, what is the max allowable CG? Or do they never
come in nose heavy? guess we still have to document it.
walt
NX140DL
(north N.J.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skycarl" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Finding the sweet spot |
Thanks Kirk, I'm sure there is a trick to it. The fine tuning is more nuts
than
the building.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: The Huizenga's <kirkh@unique-software.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Finding the sweet spot
<kirkh@unique-software.com>
>
> Carl,
>
> I'll post this on the corvaircraft list and see what people come up with.
>
> Kirk
>
> >
> >Is there any set way of finding the ideal position of the prop in
relation
> >to the compression stroke. For instance, with
> >the prop in the two oclock postion, where would the number one cylinder
be
> >in relation to the cycle? I've got the corvair
> >started a couple of times but I feel I'm not getting the best prop pull
on
> >it. If there is a little trick or procedure that might
> >make it go better, I would sure love to hear it.
> >Carl
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Kirk Huizenga and Bryan Eastep's Aircamper and Corvair Project
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList.cfm?Menu=PhotoGallery
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
Are there any published, established or generally agreed upon limits for the
following:
Maximum fore and aft C G in inches and % of chord?
What is the maximum T/O weight of a Piet?
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
Corky,
The empty CG will vary from ship to ship as the leading edge is apparently
what everyone uses as the datum and different planes have the wings in
different places fore and aft. So where the CGs fall for the same loading
schedule of different ships might be different.
Like you said, what is the usually range of CG in inches or % of chord?
I think that is why we have a fly off period of 25 hours. If it appears to
be in reasonable limits, I do not see the issue.
I have to go to dinner and will be back on the list in two hours.
Also, DO YOU HAVE A FUSELAGE TANK? YOU NEVER ANSWERED THE QUESTION.
chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Limits
Pieters,
Are there any published, established or generally agreed upon limits for the
following:
Maximum fore and aft C G in inches and % of chord?
What is the maximum T/O weight of a Piet?
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Yes, I have a fuse tank, 16 gals with a -6 forward of datum.
Will wait to hear from you before final C G form for tomorrow.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: what is the fwd max CG? |
Sorry,
Meant to say what is the max allowable FORWARD CG? I see from the prints
that 20" back from LE is the max rear CG, but is it stated what the fwd CG
is?
walt
ps. Hopefully I'm next!
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: what is the fwd max CG?
>
> with all this figuring going on, what is the max allowable CG? Or do
they never come in nose heavy? guess we still have to document it.
> walt
> NX140DL
> (north N.J.)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: what is the fwd max CG? |
Walt, I'm sitting here dreaming all sorts of scenarios on this weight & B.
For instance if one of my three 100 lb daughters came home and wanted a check
out in the Piet whatwould the W&B become? , especially if they left me enough
money to fill the tank.
To answer your question , I don't know and I don't think it will be
determined until flown
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib gusstes, |
Corky,
I'm the one who received your 1933 glider manual. Your flop-over
entrance looked great on the pics you sent. Good Luck with the Fed Man!!
Doug in Arrowbear, where the home is gone in two weeks, and no place yet to
go afterwards.... hee hee hee
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
ArrowBear Lake Ca.
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib gusstes,
>
> Doug,
> Go hide that saw. Take that 1/8 back and get you some 1/16 THEN do your
> cutting.
> Corky in La where all the mistakes have been made at least once, maybe
more
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | what is the fwd max CG? |
Corky,
As the builder of the ship you get to decide the ships gross weight. I
recommend that we recompute using a higher gross wieght assuming two 220 lb
pilots. Then we can work down to a minimum wieght for a pilot in the back
seat. This will enhance the utility of the ship to others if you sell it.
Face it us youngsters are a little bigger than you guys that won all the
wars. Besides, as you have the numbers now, almost all of us would never be
able to so much as ride with you or give you a ride in your own plane, I
mean motorglider.
chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what is the fwd max CG?
Walt, I'm sitting here dreaming all sorts of scenarios on this weight & B.
For instance if one of my three 100 lb daughters came home and wanted a
check
out in the Piet whatwould the W&B become? , especially if they left me
enough
money to fill the tank.
To answer your question , I don't know and I don't think it will be
determined until flown
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi,
I'm would like to know what most of you have used for test pieces for
your ribs. I was planning to make up 3x3x3 triangles with gussets on each
corner. I am planning on making one test piece per rib and maybe a few
extras. Does this seem reasonable or does anyone have any better
suggestions?
Thanks for any help
Norm Decou
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
Corky,
My sources say you will need a placard that says "solo from rear seat only"
I agree that someone with a flying piet should furnish you a CG range that
they were certified with. The actual empty CG and loaded CG won't go too
far out of line from all the other ships. It is the RANGE of allowable CG
that is key.
I have spent the evening belching up the dinner and researching CG range. I
found a good article in EAA Aircraft Design File 3 Volume 3 by L. D.
Sunderland EAA 5477 on page 17. His intro reads more or less:
"An important part of the design of an aircraft is the establishment of CG
limits. This is a critical design problem which should be solved through a
stability and control analysis. (this means tons of math). A second a less
dependable method is to copy the limits of an existing airplane and hope
that flight tests prove the selection is correct."
It goes on to say that "most homebuilders will never perform such a
stability and control analysis" and therefore use the less desireable tried
and true method of test flying.
To really get into it, the aft limit is set a point just forward of the
point where the nose will not drop down when raised and the stick is held
there. It is when you can't provide the control inputs to get the nose down
to keep from stalling. You would basically pancake to the ground. If the
CG was way forward, it would always take much forceable input to move the
nose up or down. This force decreases as the CG is moved aft until the
force becomes zero ie a limp dick I mean stick. It is obvious that you do
not want an aft limit this far aft.
The forward limit is set at the point where you have enough elevator to land
the plane with a windmilling engine. If you can't three point her with the
stick at the aft stop, then the CG is too far forward. This is figured while
in ground effect because the downwash from the wing over the elevator is
affected by the ground. A 5 degree of elevator throw margin is desired here
so that you should be able to three point the ship at the forward CG limit
while using 5 degrees less than full throw of back stick. Also, the
forward limit is set by a thing called "stick force per G". This is not to
be worried about because the landing elevator required requirement is more
restrictive most of the time.
The article finishes with the advice that:
"The safest practice for conventional designs is to locate the CG for the
initial test flight as near the 25% chord point as possible. Then by
gradually and systematically moving the CG with sandbags, determine the rear
limit where the ship will fly hands off and the forward limit which will
permit good landings. If your loading requirements demand limits which do
not fall inside those determined by flight tests, you will need to make
design modifications like adding ballast (or shifting the wing as is often
done on the piet) or placing added restrictions on loading."
I will now do the math with a higher gross wieght and send it in a few
minutes.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Limits
Pieters,
Are there any published, established or generally agreed upon limits for the
following:
Maximum fore and aft C G in inches and % of chord?
What is the maximum T/O weight of a Piet?
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | CG locations of passenger and pilot |
Corky,
How did you determine the CG locations of the passenger seat and pilot seat.
The old rule is that you use the location of the navel as the CG of a person
sitting. This is why weighing empty and then later with someone in the seat
lets you mathemtically determine an EXACT location for the occupants' CG
loation. These planes are so light that little errors like this really skew
the results. My initial review indicates that we are way tail heavy and
getting tail heavier as we add a passenger and that is what prompts this
question.
I would guess that the navel would occupy a point about 1" aft of the
leading edge of each seat. I am looking at the 1932 F & G plans and with
the fron cabane strut straight vertical to the upper longeron, an eyeball
guess is 19" aft for the front seat and 51 inches aft for the back seat.
What fuselage did you use?
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: CG locations of passenger and pilot |
Chris,
Thanks again for this effort.
I have the short 1933 fuse. I did use the belly button position for bodies.
21 inches for the passenger and 53 for the pilot.
CMC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | CG locations of passenger and pilot |
Looks good then although I would change the ship a bit as testing moves
along. Let me know what you think of what follows. I will stay up all nite
if I have to.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG locations of passenger and pilot
Chris,
Thanks again for this effort.
I have the short 1933 fuse. I did use the belly button position for bodies.
21 inches for the passenger and 53 for the pilot.
CMC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
Corky,
I wish the wing were back a little but maybe we can do the old "bolt the
lead to the motor mount like Frank Pavliga" trick. This would be to allow
the aircraft to "live" more toward the center of the expected allowable CG
range.
I did a bunch of looking around trying to find a high wing monoplane with an
undercambered airfoil where known CG limits were in place per the Type
Certificate Data Sheets. Unfortunately, any that I found were too old to
even have an allowable CG range posted on their TCDS. The best I could come
up with was the 10.6" to 22.7" allowable range on a J3C-65 Cub. That
translates to 16.8% to 36% of it's 63" chord allowable CG range with a rear
seat solo near the aft limit. this is close to your situation although with
a different airfoil and different tail surfaces.
The Piet has a chord of 60". Your EW CG numbers look correct at 631 lbs and
7170 in-lbs moment with a 11.36" EWCG or 18.93% of chord. Assuming the
worst aft CG case with a 220 lb pilot and 220 lb passenger and empty of fuel
with 6 pounds of gloves in the glove box, we have 631 + 220 + 220 + 6 = 1077
lbs. Moments are {7170 + (220)(21) + (220)(53) + (6)(66)}/1077 = 22.14" or
22.14/60 = 36.90% of chord. A tad more aft than the Cub.
We can back off the totally empty fuel and say there is 1 gallon of fuel
unuseable. This would add a (6)(-6) = -36 moment to change the CG to
23810/1083 = 21.98" or 36.64%. Still not enough. In addition, let us try
the old "bolt the lead to the motor mount like Frank Pavliga" trick. Add 10
lbs to the motor mount support tube 6" aft of the oil sump (add at
station -18). (10)(-18) = -180 moment so the CG would change to
(23810-180)/(1083+10)= 23630/1093 = 21.62" or 36.0%.
Looks like we can show the fedman that it can be done.
As the passenger actually sits behind the CG the worst forward CG case is
full fuel, 100 lb pilot, no passenger, and empty glove box. So: (7170 +
(96)(-6) + (100)(53))/(631 + 96 + 100) = 14.38" or 24.O% of chord.
You can see that the cub allows the front limit to be 16.8% of chord and we
really at the mid point of the range even with the worst case forward
loading. This is why a repostion of the wing would be better. To figure it
out fairly closely, I would need to know the weight of the wing as it is
right now with the cover and paint and a weight for the wing struts and
separate weights for the cabane struts would be helpful as well.
Look at the bright side, if you hand prop the airplane and don't jump inside
fast enough and the thing takes off without you with the 6 pounds of gloves
in the glovebox, then you have: 631 + 96 + 6 = 733 lbs and moments of 7170
+ (96)(-6) + (6)(66) = 6990 inch-lbs. 6990/733 = 9.5" or 15.9% of chord.
Compare this to the Cub's 16.8%. Pretty close. Maybe a little nose heavy
but it should fly by itself ok as long as it does a wheel landing!!
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
HI Chris, Corky,
As an ignorant bystander who will be doing the same thing in a few months, I
would just like to say I am really enjoying following these discussions on
W&B.
I have tried to anticipate such problems by keping a running spreadsheet of
weights and moments as I have worked on the project. I estimated what I
thought components would weigh and put them into the spreadsheet with their
proper moment (I used the firewall as a datum since I expected to have to
move the wing). As each component has been completed I weighed it to see
how it compared with my estimate and updated the spreadsheet with the actual
weight. Based on these numbers, I made my motor mount 2" longer than the
plans call for (I built the long fuselage), and shifted the wing aft 3" from
vertical. According to the spreadsheet, my empty weight should come in at
633 lbs, and my worst case aft CG (full fuel in centersection tank, 200 lb,
passenger, 200 lb. Pilot, nothing in the nose baggage compartment and 4 lbs
of stuff in the helmet box) should come at 34.2% of wing chord. It'll be
interesting to see what the final numbers look like.
Good luck, Corky!
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
In my announcement of completion of NX41CC I failed to acknowledge the part
of co-builder Joe Czaplicki of Zion, Ill who sold me his project in July
2000. Joe's work was great and following him was a pleasure. He saved me
about 5 years, which I'm not sure I have in the longivity bank.
The tail number is N X 4 1 Czaplicki-Corky
Thanks again Joe
CMC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | glue test pieces for ribs |
Hi,
I have talked to some people who have built entire rib sets without
making any test pieces. They just physically took one of their ribs and bent
and twisted it until they were satisfied that it was strong enough. I have
taken a few small triangular pieces and tested them to destruction in a bench
vice. The T-88 glue joints held and the plies in the aircraft quality 1/16
plywood gussets sheared. I would like to know what most of you have used for
test pieces for your ribs. I was planning to make up 3x3x3 triangles with
gussets on each corner. I am planning to make one test piece per rib and
maybe a few extras. Does this seem reasonable or does anyone have any better
suggestions? (Am I on the right track?)
Thanks for any help
Norm Decou
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: glue test pieces for ribs |
| From: | Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
on 9/28/02 17:26, Adecou(at)aol.com at Adecou(at)aol.com wrote:
>
(Am I on the right track?)
>
Norm,
Building test pieces and testing them to destruction implies that you can
learn something from your testing, such as how a similar piece (rib) will
behave in actual use or how well your gluing technique works.
It is unlikely that you can devise a test that accurately reflects what
stresses a rib will see in the extremes of actual use so you probably won't
learn anything new about rib stresses or the rib design. The testing that
has been performed in 70 plus years of actual Piet use: all sorts of flight
stresses in all sorts of weather and built by all manner of craftsmen with
many different glues; is a better design quality indicator than any test
that can be performed in a shop or lab.
To gain confidence in the wood and glue, and your gluing technique, the
tests you've performed already should have you comfortable enough to make
good quality parts.
If you use recommended woods and glues and follow recommended techniques,
there really isn't much that you can learn from mangling a rib in a vise.
What you do gain is confidence. However, it is more confidence in yourself
than in the design or the proven techniques.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: glue test pieces for ribs |
Norm,
What I did for test pieces was,,,every once in a while I'd have extra glue
left over. I'd just dig behind the band saw and get some scraps and stick
them together. Next day put the date on each with a pencil and throw them
in a box under the work bench. This way at the end of the project, you got
what you need. as far as weld samples,,,got quite a few boo-boo's of
brackets that don't fit, and do overs. Throw them in the box too.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: <Adecou(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: glue test pieces for ribs
>
> Hi,
> I have talked to some people who have built entire rib sets without
> making any test pieces. They just physically took one of their ribs and
bent
> and twisted it until they were satisfied that it was strong enough. I
have
> taken a few small triangular pieces and tested them to destruction in a
bench
> vice. The T-88 glue joints held and the plies in the aircraft quality
1/16
> plywood gussets sheared. I would like to know what most of you have used
for
> test pieces for your ribs. I was planning to make up 3x3x3 triangles with
> gussets on each corner. I am planning to make one test piece per rib and
> maybe a few extras. Does this seem reasonable or does anyone have any
better
> suggestions? (Am I on the right track?)
> Thanks for any help
> Norm Decou
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Corky,
A builder who started me in building wooden planes, gave me a few good theories.
One of which was,,,no matter what you are building, you always have the next
project in your head..
Corky, what's yours?
walt
NX140DL
(north N.J.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Sheets" <doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com> |
Corky:
It's been as much fun following your project as it has been building our own. I
hope we helped and encouraged you during the process, and maybe sometimes prodded
you when you didn't want prodded. The hard work is over, and now the fun
begins. Through all that, you did it and we're proud of you! Your stories along
the way have brightened my day, and others as well, I imagine. Now you and your
bride enjoy your new found freedom. Know what? You're not going to know what
to do with yourself now.
Congrats, again!
Doug Sheets
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rollin" <rollin.young(at)acsalaska.net> |
Hello list, I have been reading the list for over two years now and I am always
impressed with the vast knowledge of the group. I haven't started building a
Piet yet, still looking for the right tree... I'm hoping one of you can help
with an engine problem.
I have a Continental C90 on my J3 that was just overhauled by a shop with a good
reputation - new cylinders, pistons, crankshaft... everything. My problem is
that after about 5 hours of flying the front crankshaft oil seal starts leaking
oil. I am on the second seal and it is leaking again. The shop is willing
to open the engine up and look for the problem but it would mean taking the
engine off the plane and shipping it to them.
In looking through the Maintenance and Overhaul Manual there is a note that says:
If a flange type crankshaft is to be installed in an old type crankcase (with
small shoulder behind oil seal recess) a special spring (part number 25386) may
be installed behind (and not touching) the oil seal to act as an oil slinger.
This is the engine setup that I have. When I asked if the special spring was installed
I learned that it wasn't and that they had never heard of such a spring
and couldn't cross reference the part number.
The Manual does say "may be installed". I read that as "if you want you can but
it is not necessary" The good news is that if the spring will solve the problem
it can be installed easily.
Does anyone out there have any experience with this engine, spring, seal???
Thanks in advance. Rollin Young, Juneau, Alaska
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: next project? |
How did you know.
A 1927 Dodge Bros Station Wagon almost completed
Parts for: A 1913 Model T Stake Body Pick up
A 1923 Model T Station Wagon
Want to know more?
Picked up an 0-200 last week with a set of Cessna gears, wheels and brakes.
Who knows?
Corky in beautiful La signing off for awhile
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Rollin,
Did you check the crankcase breather or breather pipe? If clogged, with
heating and expanding, it's got to go somewhere.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rollin" <rollin.young(at)acsalaska.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oil leak
>
> Hello list, I have been reading the list for over two years now and I am
always impressed with the vast knowledge of the group. I haven't started
building a Piet yet, still looking for the right tree... I'm hoping one of
you can help with an engine problem.
>
> I have a Continental C90 on my J3 that was just overhauled by a shop with
a good reputation - new cylinders, pistons, crankshaft... everything. My
problem is that after about 5 hours of flying the front crankshaft oil seal
starts leaking oil. I am on the second seal and it is leaking again. The
shop is willing to open the engine up and look for the problem but it would
mean taking the engine off the plane and shipping it to them.
>
> In looking through the Maintenance and Overhaul Manual there is a note
that says:
>
> If a flange type crankshaft is to be installed in an old type crankcase
(with small shoulder behind oil seal recess) a special spring (part number
25386) may be installed behind (and not touching) the oil seal to act as an
oil slinger.
>
> This is the engine setup that I have. When I asked if the special spring
was installed I learned that it wasn't and that they had never heard of such
a spring and couldn't cross reference the part number.
>
> The Manual does say "may be installed". I read that as "if you want you
can but it is not necessary" The good news is that if the spring will solve
the problem it can be installed easily.
>
> Does anyone out there have any experience with this engine, spring,
seal???
>
> Thanks in advance. Rollin Young, Juneau, Alaska
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rollin" <rollin.young(at)acsalaska.net> |
Thanks for the response Walter. The oil breather was the first thing the
mechanic had me check. It was not obstructed. Rollin
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oil leak
>
> Rollin,
> Did you check the crankcase breather or breather pipe? If clogged, with
> heating and expanding, it's got to go somewhere.
> walt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rollin" <rollin.young(at)acsalaska.net>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oil leak
>
>
>
> >
> > Hello list, I have been reading the list for over two years now and I am
> always impressed with the vast knowledge of the group. I haven't started
> building a Piet yet, still looking for the right tree... I'm hoping one
of
> you can help with an engine problem.
> >
> > I have a Continental C90 on my J3 that was just overhauled by a shop
with
> a good reputation - new cylinders, pistons, crankshaft... everything. My
> problem is that after about 5 hours of flying the front crankshaft oil
seal
> starts leaking oil. I am on the second seal and it is leaking again. The
> shop is willing to open the engine up and look for the problem but it
would
> mean taking the engine off the plane and shipping it to them.
> >
> > In looking through the Maintenance and Overhaul Manual there is a note
> that says:
> >
> > If a flange type crankshaft is to be installed in an old type
crankcase
> (with small shoulder behind oil seal recess) a special spring (part number
> 25386) may be installed behind (and not touching) the oil seal to act as
an
> oil slinger.
> >
> > This is the engine setup that I have. When I asked if the special
spring
> was installed I learned that it wasn't and that they had never heard of
such
> a spring and couldn't cross reference the part number.
> >
> > The Manual does say "may be installed". I read that as "if you want you
> can but it is not necessary" The good news is that if the spring will
solve
> the problem it can be installed easily.
> >
> > Does anyone out there have any experience with this engine, spring,
> seal???
> >
> > Thanks in advance. Rollin Young, Juneau, Alaska
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: glue test pieces for ribs |
Besides, you are not testing the strength of the rib design, that has
already been done. Moreover, ribs don't even undergo very much stress
anyway. The purpose of making test pieces is only to determine whether the
batch of glue you mix is done properly. Ideally, I guess, you should make
one test piece every time you mix glue and make sure you know which pieces
you glued wuith it if it should turn out to be bad. Now, has anyone here
done a test piece every single time they mixed even a small batch? I
haven't.
Gene Rambo
\
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: glue test pieces for ribs
>
> on 9/28/02 17:26, Adecou(at)aol.com at Adecou(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> (Am I on the right track?)
> >
> Norm,
>
> Building test pieces and testing them to destruction implies that you can
> learn something from your testing, such as how a similar piece (rib) will
> behave in actual use or how well your gluing technique works.
>
> It is unlikely that you can devise a test that accurately reflects what
> stresses a rib will see in the extremes of actual use so you probably
won't
> learn anything new about rib stresses or the rib design. The testing that
> has been performed in 70 plus years of actual Piet use: all sorts of
flight
> stresses in all sorts of weather and built by all manner of craftsmen with
> many different glues; is a better design quality indicator than any test
> that can be performed in a shop or lab.
>
> To gain confidence in the wood and glue, and your gluing technique, the
> tests you've performed already should have you comfortable enough to make
> good quality parts.
>
> If you use recommended woods and glues and follow recommended techniques,
> there really isn't much that you can learn from mangling a rib in a vise.
>
> What you do gain is confidence. However, it is more confidence in
yourself
> than in the design or the proven techniques.
>
> Mike
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Way to go Corky!! |
Corky,
If you're still around the list, CONGRATULATIONS!! I am proud to have been
able to see 41CC while she was still bare wood and faraway looks. Your Piet
turned out just as nice as I thought it would and I'll bet she'll fly just
as well, too! I can't wait to hear the tale of the maiden voyage!
Enjoy those mint julips - you deserve 'em! Now, after seeing your success, I
think it's time for me to get out to the garage and do some more work on
getting mine on the gear! I'm looking forward to seeing mine in a 3-point
stance! At least it'll be easier to roll around the shop!
Best of luck, Corky!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Holland" <iholland(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: glue test pieces for ribs |
Gene, I did. I made 3 test pieces for every batch of glue, dated them,
put two in storage and sheared one. Never had a glue line break,
always wood. (Aerolite)
Have the pile if the inspector wants to check at random. Also, I plan
to check at random every 2 to 4 years,
-=Ian=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
"Pietenpol-List(at)Matronics.Com"
Corky,
1185 should be a really good number. Congradulations. Tell the test pilot
to watch for a tail heavy condition.
Can you tell the rest of the piet list more details about the inspection?
Many are really apprehensive about the whole afair.
chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com [mailto:Isablcorky(at)aol.com]
Subject: CG
Chris,
All went well. I had a CG form made out with a 100 lb pilot for the forward
CG limit and a 220 lb Pilot,200 lb pass and 8 gals of fuel for my aft
limits,
He accepted the form without question. I set the Max t/o weight at 1185.
Don't think I'll get that high but as you said when it's sold it might help
someone else.
I want to thank you for your work, interest and knowledge on these dumb
questions I've submitted to the list these past years.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Incompatability |
Hey guys, as long as we're playing the EAA number game I'll throw mine in. It
is EAA# 1541. But I'm guessing it will take no more than, say, five
minutes for that to be topped !! Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Chris,
I can truthfully say that I'm really glad that it's over. Now for the
testing. I don't think there will be any problem with the test pilot and tail
heaviness as he is no bigger than a fart in a whirlwind.
The DAR, Mr Lanny Rundell, of Winnsboro, La. flew over Sat afternoon in the
most beautiful Glassair I've ever seen, Said he did 180 kts on the leg.
He did most of the typing and paperwork at his office so all he would have to
do was check the plane, get a few statements for the Airplane and Engine Log
books and go back home.
He was very thorough but reasonable. He didn't like the fact I had no washers
between the tail feather hinges and the cotter pins. Suggested I do this on a
rainy day. Didn't say I couldn't fly it the way it was, as a matter of fact
he made about five or six corrections but still ok'd the a/c for flight.
He never asked for a building log, glue samples and all those other things we
read about on the net that keeps us up at night worrying about. I think I was
extremely fortunate to have had such a good DAR.
If any Pieters have any specific questions about the DAR inspections, write
me direct so we won't bother the others who would not be interested.
I have two test areas. #1 is north of our DTN airport about 20 miles by 3 or
4 wide. Using this because of the large runways at DTN. Then we go to Lucien
Airport south of the city where I will have a larger rural (cotton fields)
area for the remainder of the 25 hr fly off. Everything I requested he
granted.
NOW I am going to make one last request of this list and please don't laugh.
If you can afford to build an airplane and possess the required knowledge and
skill to do so you should be able to write a STERN letter to all the senators
and representatives that you know or know of and mail them soon. Don't put it
off. This is the best time because it's election time and all those good,
honest, caring, unselfish public servants are searching for issues to please.
Soooooooooooo let's let them please us by making them aware of the Sport
Pilot issue, which I'm convinced 99% have never heard of it. To you
youngsters on this list, it's time you learn the power of the letter and the
vote. You'll be amazed. Look at the last Presidential election. Just one vote
difference in 538 precincts would have given you another President. I'm not
concerned here whether that be good or bad. I'm not politicing but just
trying to get that damn Sport Pilot issue brought to the attention of
Congress and until that happens it's going nowhere regardless of what these
organizations tell you. Those politicians read their mail and are more
effected by it than these lobbyists.
Thank you for your attention, sit down now and write those letters and you'll
be amazed at the results
Corky in La where we've never had any unusual politics.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brants" <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | turtledeck again |
I'm setting up to do my turtledeck.... I still have one question. The last support
(near the elevator) I haven't found a dimension for this as far as height.
This will determine the two mid supports dimensions as well. What have people
been using for this?
Thanks,
Tom Brant, MPLS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Incompatability |
I'm throwing a new challenge in--
Whose the youngest member of
our group.(not me at 59)
And how many of us are under 30!
The more we have, the more chance
for our future.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Waytogopiet(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Incompatability
>
> Hey guys, as long as we're playing the EAA number game I'll throw mine in.
It
> is EAA# 1541. But I'm guessing it will take no more than, say, five
> minutes for that to be topped !! Don Hicks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Glue test pieces |
Gene: In my early construction phase I made test pieces from each glue
batch. It was easy to do because all early glue jobs were large and I
was enthusiastic about it. I use Aeropoxy and all test pieces broke with
the wood, not the glue.Now I'm 75% done with 3000% yet to go I haven't
made a test piece in a long time. Most of my current glue jobs use just
a couple of drops at a time doing small detail stuff. One reason I'm
confident about my joints is because I put my resin and hardener in
Rubbermaid squeeze bottles which are clear plastic. ( Aeropoxy comes in
tin qt. cans ) I mix my glue in those graduated medicine cups which
gives me a perfect 50-50 mixture each time. When done for the day I put
the bottles next to each other and the levels have always stayed the
same threw 4 or 5 refills now. Speaking of CG, There was a letter in
one of the IPA newsletters about a pilot who stated that he had to give
full fwd. stick during landing flair! Leon S. My luck, I'll get a
DR who doesn't even want to see my plane. Just my glue test pieces.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/29/02 |
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
Tom,
Re: Turtle deck bulkhead. I made the last bulkhead the same height as
the thickness of the horizontal stab. It is flat on top with the ends
rounded.
Dick Hartwig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: turtledeck again |
I made the rear bulkhead 1" tall, the height of the stringers.
Gene Rambo
----- Original Message -----
From: Brants <tmbrant(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: turtledeck again
>
> I'm setting up to do my turtledeck.... I still have one question. The
last support (near the elevator) I haven't found a dimension for this as far
as height. This will determine the two mid supports dimensions as well.
What have people been using for this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom Brant, MPLS
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Incompatability |
I'm 33 but I think DJ is going to be the youngest. As far as I know, he's
the only one under 30.
Robert Haines
Du Quoin, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Sport Pilot Letter |
Pieters,
Yesterday I sent out an E mail pleading for all to get out your pen and
pencil and write your congress-people about help with the Sport Pilot issue.
I am a poor letter writer, Englishes were my poorest grades at LSU, what else
could one expect from a Cajun decendant. Anyway I'm enclosing, as an example,
my letter to my Senators. I
tried to emphasize that this will cost nothing but will effect so many. I
hope this may help you decide to get those letters going to Washington. If
you help me get this through I promise to throw the biggest Gumbo, MeatBall,
BarbeCue Pietenpol
Flyin Fais-Do-Do ever dreamed.
Corky in La licking stamps
"
The Honorable John Breaux,
Sir,
This is my first letter ever to a public official. Knowing your time is short
I will try to be as brief as possible with my plight but thorough enough that
you will fully understand.
I am asking your support for the Sport Pilot issue now being delayed by the
FAA office staffs. In brief, the Sport Pilot issue would allow a Sport Pilot
category, somewhere between a Cub pilot and a ultralight pilot, to fly with
a self certified medical. The aircrafts that would be flyable are very slow
and very light and I might add, very safe.
There are many thousand pilots like me who are advanced in age with the usual
impairments associated who are turned down by the FAA medical people without
benefit of other medical opinions. The cost of further tests to satisfy FAA
is considered a joke and cost prohibitive.
I have been a Commercial Pilot since 1951, Have near 4000 hours of flying
time ALL in small Single Engine Land airplanes. My military flying was during
the Korean War in Cessna, DeHaviland and Ryan aircraft with the U S Army.
I have recently completed building my own airplane, a Pietenpol Air Camper,
it has been inspected and is considered airworthy by the FAA but all I can do
is sit and wait for Washington to act.
Let me point out that what I am asking of you will not cost our government
one cent. It is a ruling which will boost aviation in our country, put many
pilots back in the air for the pure pleasure of flying. I can't think of any
effort on your part which would bring so much happiness to so many for no
monetary expense.
Thank you for your courtesy in reading this and I promise you I'll see you at
the polling place.
Respectfully,
Claude M Corbett
625 Pierremont Road
Shreveport, La 71106
P S I had the pleasure of meeting you and your lovely wife some years back
when you were a U S Representative at a Chamber Of Commerce meeting in
Abbeville.
"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
EAA SEEKS MEDICAL CERTIFICATE EXEMPTION FOR RECREATIONAL PILOTS ---
EAA submitted a Medical Certificate Exemption petition to the FAA on
September 26, which is an official request to allow those flying under the
FAA recreational pilot rules to fly with a valid U.S. driver's license in
lieu of an FAA medical certificate.
In September 1993 EAA submitted a formal request to the FAA to allow
recreational pilots to fly by "self-certifying" their medical status in the
same manner as glider, balloon, and ultralight pilots. In 1995 the FAA
denied that request for lack of data to support it.
In July 2002 the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) formally
requested that the FAA change the rule and allow the driver's license
medical for recreational pilots, but on September 13th the request was
denied because of other higher FAA/DOT priority rulemaking projects and what
the FAA called a lack of data to support changing the rule.
EAA, in requesting the medical certificate exemption, is requesting to
establish a 5-year test bed designed to assist the FAA in building the
needed data with which a future rule-changing decision could be based. EAA
feels the data captured from this study, when combined with the lessons
learned from the sport pilot medical rule, would be sufficient to expand the
use of the driver's license medical authority to recreational pilots.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Chris wrote:
>Look at the bright side, if you hand prop the airplane and don't jump
>inside fast enough and the thing takes off without you with the 6
>pounds of gloves in the glovebox, then you have... 15.9% of chord.
>Compare this to the Cub's 16.8%. Pretty close. Maybe a little nose
>heavy but it should fly by itself ok as long as it does a wheel
>landing!!
Oh, man! I nearly fell out of my office chair laughing at the mental
picture of Four-One Charlie-Charlie soloing itself with a load of gloves
aboard! But it has happened this way before, or so I've read.
PS: I wonder if the FAA would require the empty airplane to "self-certify"
its medical condition? Yuk, yuk!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: unmanned Piets |
a radio control friend of mine was trying dearly to convince me to equip my second
AirCamper with industrial servos and a 40hp engine.
I must admit, I entertained the thought but wasn't quite sure what the legal implications
would be. Especially nowadays with security at it's max. I have had
some large scale (30-40%) RC planes before, but a full scale RC plane would be
freakin amazing.
Maybe one day :-)
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: unmanned Piets
Chris wrote:
>Look at the bright side, if you hand prop the airplane and don't jump
>inside fast enough and the thing takes off without you with the 6
>pounds of gloves in the glovebox, then you have... 15.9% of chord.
>Compare this to the Cub's 16.8%. Pretty close. Maybe a little nose
>heavy but it should fly by itself ok as long as it does a wheel
>landing!!
Oh, man! I nearly fell out of my office chair laughing at the mental
picture of Four-One Charlie-Charlie soloing itself with a load of gloves
aboard! But it has happened this way before, or so I've read.
PS: I wonder if the FAA would require the empty airplane to "self-certify"
its medical condition? Yuk, yuk!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
=
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: unmanned Piets |
Be aware that the messages coming thru with attachments that look like they
came from this list have a VIRUS attached.Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
We support Aeroncas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: unmanned Piets
>
> Chris wrote:
>
> >Look at the bright side, if you hand prop the airplane and don't jump
> >inside fast enough and the thing takes off without you with the 6
> >pounds of gloves in the glovebox, then you have... 15.9% of chord.
> >Compare this to the Cub's 16.8%. Pretty close. Maybe a little nose
> >heavy but it should fly by itself ok as long as it does a wheel
> >landing!!
>
> Oh, man! I nearly fell out of my office chair laughing at the mental
> picture of Four-One Charlie-Charlie soloing itself with a load of gloves
> aboard! But it has happened this way before, or so I've read.
>
> PS: I wonder if the FAA would require the empty airplane to "self-certify"
> its medical condition? Yuk, yuk!
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John_Duprey(at)vmed.org |
| Subject: | Re: unmanned Piets |
09/30/2002 03:11:11 PM
Why not In WWII the Navy used Culver Cadets with radio control as target
drones. Bet a full scale Piet taking off with no one in the cockpit would
be quite a site.
"DJ Vegh" (at)matronics.com on 09/30/2002 02:38:47 PM
Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: unmanned Piets
a radio control friend of mine was trying dearly to convince me to equip my
second AirCamper with industrial servos and a 40hp engine.
I must admit, I entertained the thought but wasn't quite sure what the
legal implications would be. Especially nowadays with security at it's max.
I have had some large scale (30-40%) RC planes before, but a full scale RC
plane would be freakin amazing.
Maybe one day :-)
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: unmanned Piets
Chris wrote:
>Look at the bright side, if you hand prop the airplane and don't jump
>inside fast enough and the thing takes off without you with the 6
>pounds of gloves in the glovebox, then you have... 15.9% of chord.
>Compare this to the Cub's 16.8%. Pretty close. Maybe a little nose
>heavy but it should fly by itself ok as long as it does a wheel
>landing!!
Oh, man! I nearly fell out of my office chair laughing at the mental
picture of Four-One Charlie-Charlie soloing itself with a load of gloves
aboard! But it has happened this way before, or so I've read.
PS: I wonder if the FAA would require the empty airplane to
"self-certify"
its medical condition? Yuk, yuk!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
=
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <
http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: turtledeck again |
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
Hi Tom
We made the back 1" high & the front 9 1/4 " high.
This made for a larger helmet box & a safer shoulder tie point.
Ran 1/8 " cable back to the fin tie point.
If you want to see ours give me a call 952 890 3905.
Dale Mpls.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: turtledeck again |
Tom,
I was out looking at Frank Pavliga's Piet recently to get some things
straight in my mind, including this very issue. Frank made his so that it's
just about the same height as the top of his horizontal stab. Glue down a
piece of ply cut to the right height & radius, then butt your stringers
right up against it. that will tell you how much, if any, you neeed to take
off the bottoms to get them the right height. (if that makes sense). BTW, 9
stringers look better than the 7 called for in the plans - run out to River
Falls & look at Andy Pietenpol's project if you want to see what it looks
like.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
>
>I made the rear bulkhead 1" tall, the height of the stringers.
>
>Gene Rambo
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Brants <tmbrant(at)uswest.net>
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: turtledeck again
>
>
>>
>> I'm setting up to do my turtledeck.... I still have one question. The
>last support (near the elevator) I haven't found a dimension for this as far
>as height. This will determine the two mid supports dimensions as well.
>What have people been using for this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Tom Brant, MPLS
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | StandardisedValidation |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Fw: StandardisedValidation |
----- Original Message -----
From: clif
Subject: StandardisedValidation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Handheld and headset |
Pieters,
Am shopping today for a handheld and headset. Anyone in the know on buying
these? Maybe someone has an old or extra one they would like to convert into
some quick CASH. Sure would appreciate some advise on what to buy and more
important what to avoid. Thank you
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Handheld and headset |
Corky,
Congrats on the inspection!!!!
Check out http://www.avshop.com/transceiverroundup.html for a review
of different handhelds. Might be helpful.
Kirk
--
Kirk Huizenga and Bryan Eastep's Aircamper and Corvair Project
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList.cfm?Menu=PhotoGallery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
Help!
I'm working on the control cables now, and there are some things that aren't
clear on the 3-piece wing plans. Those of you with three-piece wings: How
did you connect up your aileron cables, and where did you use fairleads for
the control cables. For that matter, how did you make your fairleads and
where did you put them?
1) A single cable from the crank to the lower aileron horn means that you
can never take the wings off.
2) A connection inside the wing root is hard to get to if there's enough
clearance between the fitting and the pulley in the center section.
If anyone can point me to some pictures, or give me a description of what
they did, I'd certainly appreciate it.
Thanks,
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
| Subject: | got the paperwork |
Hi Corky,
Congratulations, keep us up on the test flights.
Skip
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
| Subject: | Sport Pilot Letter |
Peiters,
Got a question.
Working on my control system.
How far, degrees wise, should you be able to push the stick for down
elevator? It seems like mine will not go far before it hits the back of the
passenger seat.
Skip
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sport Pilot Letter |
Skip,
Good to hear from you and here is my 10 sense. The way I governed mine this
being a tail dragger was to sit in the seat, pull the stick back and almost
bury it in your belly as if you were just stalling and on or near the ground.
Record this position as fundamental and let the forward fall as dictated by
the elevators. I used the arm with the slot ala Mr Rowney to limit my travel
but you need at least 28 degrees up elevator to keep that tail wheel down
with pressure. So, set the back position of the stick, adjust up elevator to
that and the rest should fall in place if the geometry of your horns are per
plans.
Now, I will add that of all the apparatus in this machine I'm less pleased
with the elevator control system than anything else. IF I had it to do over I
would build it with torque tubes. It's smoother, quieter and a much more
positive feel. But it's too late for me to change and maybe I'll make that
change when I build my Piet-B-Duece.
Keep in touch
Corky in La waiting for another blow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3-piece rigging |
Gene,
I built my fairleads per the print out of wood.
1) the advise that I got from this group, and I'm doing is,,,,,build the
wings and cabling with extra in each wing, and when you install the wings
(which I did last week for good), just hook the cables to the torque tube
horns. there is no way to take the ferrel out of the pulley assy anyway.
If worst comes to worst, the cable can be cut and a splice can be added
later.
Only if you plan on haveing a Piet that you can break down and trailer to
different places, would you have to make special arrangements for the
cables.
I did that and put a turnbuckle up inside the center section for the
"equalizer" cable, on top, to adjust the aleron tips to trailing edge.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece rigging
>
> Help!
>
> I'm working on the control cables now, and there are some things that
aren't
> clear on the 3-piece wing plans. Those of you with three-piece wings:
How
> did you connect up your aileron cables, and where did you use fairleads
for
> the control cables. For that matter, how did you make your fairleads and
> where did you put them?
>
> 1) A single cable from the crank to the lower aileron horn means that you
> can never take the wings off.
>
> 2) A connection inside the wing root is hard to get to if there's enough
> clearance between the fitting and the pulley in the center section.
>
> If anyone can point me to some pictures, or give me a description of what
> they did, I'd certainly appreciate it.
>
> Thanks,
> Gene Hubbard
> San Diego
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | think I got a vir_s from this group |
90% of my mail comes from this group, and now I got some kind of worm vir_s. Everyone
check your computer with some kind of antivirus, please! thanks
walt
NX140DL
(north N.J.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Ancient CAA recommendations for CG limits |
Recently there have been some questions concerning establishing practical
CG limits on homebuilt Pietenpols. Perhaps by going back to the Piet era
(1930s) we can gain an insight about how the CG limits were established in
those days ("That's how Bernie did it.")
Years ago, the CAA published a manual that all the A&E mechanics (Aircraft
& Engine mechanics in those days) used as a standard for airworthy repairs
and alterations. It was called the "Department of Commerce, Civil
Aeronautics Administration Manual 18." The title was "Maintenance, Repair,
and Alteration of Certificated Aircraft, Aircraft Engines, Propellers, and
Instruments." Manual 18 had a bunch of changes over the years, so don't
use a Manual 18 printed later than 1941 or it may not have these 1930s tips
about weight and balance limits.
Back in the early 1930s, the Type Certificate Data Sheets that were issued
by the CAA for each model of certificated airplane were quite brief - 10
or 12 lines of print. Today, those same TCDSs for those antique airplanes
still appear in that brief, sweet, naive condition. Compare that with
today's TCDS of the popular Aeronca Champion - 32 pages!
So if the C.G. limits are not set by the FAA in a TCDS (and of course, on
your homebuilt experimental Pietenpol there is no TCDS), how can you know
where the limits should be? If you can find an old pre-WWII Manual 18 (my
reference is "As amended June 1, 1941), you will find a couple of
interesting rules of thumb about Center of Gravity locations.
For instance, on page II-5, under "E. APPROVED CENTER OF GRAVITY LIMITS"
1. Current Models - stated on the pertinent aircraft specification in
percent of the MAC or in inches aft of a given datum. This information may
be obtained from the local Civil Aeronautics Inspector.
2. Older Models - In the case of those models for which approved limits
are not given on the specification or listing, it will usually be
acceptable to assume the limits to be at 18% and 30% of the MAC for low and
mid wing monoplanes and 22% and 34% of the MAC for high wing monoplanes and
biplanes.
Inasmuch as several models are known to have satisfactory flight
characteristics with the C.G. beyond such arbitrary positions, these should
not be considered hard and fast limits. In such cases, approval will
depend largely upon the recommendations of the examining inspector. The
major consideration governing approval of such cases will be the relative
change in the empty weight C.G. due to the alterations, rather than the
absolute C.G. extremes.
If the approved forward limit thus determined is exceeded, it may be
considered satisfactory provided that it is demonstrated to the local Civil
Aeronautics Inspector that the aircraft can be landed in the three-point
position when landed in the extreme forward condition.
Page II-6 of old CAA Manual 18 goes on to say:
G. DETERMINATION OF LOADED CENTER OF GRAVITY EXTREMES (The most forward
and most rearward C.G. positions obtainable as equipped and with the most
critical distribution of useful load.) The loaded extremes may be
determined either, (1) by weighing the two loaded conditions or, (2) by
computation. Both procedures have a common objective; namely, to
demonstrate that, under the most adverse loading conditions (forward and
aft), the C.G. positions will not exceed the approved limits (Part E)
which have been determined by flight test as the most extreme positions at
which the model will satisfactorily comply with the Civil Air Regulations.
A note on page II-17 states:
When the necessary information is not included in the pertinent
specifications (as for older models), it will be necessary to obtain such
data by computation and actual measurement.
OK, when you start your establishment of loaded C.G. limits on your
Pietenpol, lets use these old CAA limits (22% of the MAC for forward limit
and 34% of the MAC for the rearward limit on your high wing monoplane). A
forward C.G. may make it so you cannot land the airplane in a three-point
position (put another way, the engine is just too heavy for the too-small
elevators at slow speed to overcome). A rearward C.G. starts to get into
problems with stability and spin recovery. Vaughan Askue in his book
Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft says "C.G. provides the most direct
method the pilot has for controlling pitch stability. Moving the C.G.
forward increases the effectiveness of the horizontal tail and improves
both static and dynamic stability. The primary objective of a stability
test program is to prove that the airplane has acceptable stability
characteristics at a limiting C.G. This C.G. then becomes the aft C.G.
limit called out in the airplane's limitations. If moving the C.G. limit
forward gives acceptable stability without hurting the utility of the
airplane, then this is the simplest fix for a stability problem.
What does all this mean in your Piet? If you establish the fore and aft
loaded C.G. limits at something like 22% and 34% of the Mean Aerodynamic
Chord and try to stay away from the rear limit as much as possible (that's
the one where instability starts to take over), you will probably be OK.
Historically, most Piets come out of the jig being tail heavy because they
don't have that heavy Ford A engine on the front end of the
teeter-totter. If you increase the arm of the engine weight of a 220#
Corvair engine, for example, (move it 4 or 5 inches forward of where the
Ford used to be) your Piet will probably not be chronically tail
heavy. Then, if you want, you can tweak it by moving the wing fore or aft
- usually aft - to really set the loaded CG between your goal numbers of 22/34%
That's how Bernie did it. It still works. A pound is a pound the world
around.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Wonderful and congratulations on getting your AW! |
Corky,
I have been on vacation for the last month and now just catching up on the list.
Found that you made it through the dreaded inspection with flying colors and
I think it is just great! I also used a DAR because the FAA would not provide
an inspection here, claimed budget and manpower problems! Cost a lot (500
bucks) but the man was reasonable in his look see and very cooperative about everything.
Even gave me a test area that is about 150 miles long and 30 miles
wide, however he balked when I asked for a test area from here to Brodhead!
As a note of encouragement about your medical, I had a heart bypass operation a
couple of years ago and finally made the cut, it just takes time and patience.
You too will make it!
Congratulations for a job well done!
John Dilatush, NX114D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Thomasville fly-in |
Is the IGPP meeting still on at the Thomasville, GA flying in next weekend?
Weather permitting I will be there with my GN-1 on Friday the 11th and
planning to camp out. Heres hoping for cool weather.
Ted Brousseau
Naples, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Handheld and headset |
Corky,
May I add my congrats? I know what you have gone through and how proud (and
tired) you must feel. I just hope you hang on long enough to be able to fly
it. You must have faith that common sense will prevail some day soon.
I use both a KX-99 and Icom and they work well. You can get the one with a
built in VOR or without. I have both and never use the VOR. Depends on
your needs. Headsets are another thing. You need one that you can hear
with AND talk. There is a lot of noise up there and some mikes are better
than others.
I would think a helicopter headset would be good for an open cockpit. But,
I have never tried one. Maybe someone else can give us some guidance on the
right headset for these birds. I am in the market for the right one.
Ted Brousseau
See ya at Brodhead next summer
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Handheld and headset
>
> Pieters,
> Am shopping today for a handheld and headset. Anyone in the know on buying
> these? Maybe someone has an old or extra one they would like to convert
into
> some quick CASH. Sure would appreciate some advise on what to buy and more
> important what to avoid. Thank you
> Corky in La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 3-piece rigging |
Walt,
I rambled on about the stick and rudder and forgot to answer your question
about the aileron cables. I asked the list the same question about a year
ago. I had the problem facing me of the FEDMAN wanting a naked inspection.
What about the cables. I finally decided to make disconnects at the center of
the second rib bay of each wing panel. That would keep the c/s cables with
the c/s while covering and around each pulley w/guard. The disconnects are
two 1 in X 5/8 4130 drilled 3/32 to accomodate cable ends w/round thimbles
nicropressed. I have inspection -access holes under this fitting for attach
or removable. You must place your fairing guides to clear this area. Works
fine. I had to do it to accomodate the Fedman's naked inspection which never
took place after waiting two months. I think I would still have some sot of
disconnect. Never know when you will have to do maintenance and the more you
plan ahead now the easier it will be then
Corky in La waiting for Lillie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Thomasville fly-in |
Hey Ted...As far as I know it is still a go !! I had an 'e' from Mike
Hattaway who said they would try to set up a camping site such as we had at
SF. Guess we'll just have to sniff around 'til we find it. At the moment I am
planning to be there. The caveat is that it depends on whether my
brother-in-law survives cancer surgery (it's throughout his body). If he does
not I will be flying to Los Angeles with my bride. That has priority of
course. For all the good reasons I am hoping to be at Thomasville. Don
Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 3-piece rigging |
In a message dated 10/1/2002 10:49:25 PM Central Standard Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
> I finally decided to make disconnects at the center of
> the second rib bay of each wing panel. That would keep the c/s cables with
> the c/s while covering and around each pulley w/guard.
I did mine in the same manner....also with good results. Just locate an
inspection plate where you can reach in and make the connections. Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Letters to Congress |
Pieters,
Am asking this question to each and everyone. How many letters to Senators
and Representatives have you hand written asking each one to look into this
pending Sport Pilot issue and kick a little action into the FAA? I've written
31.
Thanks
Corky in La just looking at his Piet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | OT: NetIQ buys PentaSafe for $255 million |
Hello guys. This is off topic, but I had to tell somebody and there is a
moral to the story.
In late 1996 I and four other guys formed a company. I was a 10% owner. We
called it PentaSafe. I was VP (we all were VPs) of Marketing and Sales. I
was a pretty technical type and had experience with startup companies. I was
just about 34 years old. After 4 months of very hard work, no paycheck,
subsistence income, borrowing money to keep the company going, working from
10 to 18 hours a day, we finally started making some money. By this time
however I was a bit burned out. I had a son on the way and we now had
investors wanting to buy in. We were at 30+ people. I had used technology to
make us look very big. We had taken a product selling for about $1000 each
to $14,000 each. I was frustrated that I was selling about $80K per month
and our sales staff (which, oddly, I did not hire) was selling about $15K. I
decided to sell out to an investor for $100K USD. The other founders all
asked me for weeks to reconsider. I declined, being somewhat hard headed
that way. I went off and did other things. I held no stock, thinking the
company had peaked.
The following years saw the company first decline a bit (no one selling) and
then get a major investment from the new CEO. It took off (he is rich and
connected). Well, to make this story short, NetIQ (also here in Houston)
just bought them for $255 million dollars. My 10% would be worth $25.5
million. With dilution, etc. over the years I still would have made a cool
$7.8 million.
The moral: no matter where you work, don't ever sell your stock because you
are a bit down. Stay the course in a startup. Bumpy roads (skies) can smooth
out. You are also rarely as invaluable as you think. Others in startups are
as resilient as you, maybe more so.
PS: I am with a startup now and hold good stock. I feel we will make even
more when we get bought or do our IPO in about 6 months or so. I am not
lamenting. I am just trying to help others out there that get itchy to maybe
go out, work on the plane, relax, take a breath and think about what could
happen.
PPS: Also, if I ever make it, I am planning on doing aircraft stuff. I would
like to open a hangar and stock it with equipment many of us cannot afford
and let people use it. I would also like to build museum reproductions of
rare period aircraft. That would be a blast.
Regards,
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA Chapter 12, Houston
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
gmcneel(at)simdesk.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=43
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=68
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Ed G.) |
| Subject: | Re: 3-piece rigging |
I haven't done this yet so there may be some unforeseen reason that it
won't work
but for what it's worth I'm going to have a turnbuckle end swaged onto
the inboard end of the airleron cable. To remove the wing just undo the
turnbuckle barrel from the cable at the control horn and pull the cable
up through the cowling and through the turning block. I plan to have
easy access to the turning block but if you don't you could just tape a
messenger to the cable end when you pull it out. I plan to make the
cable guide opening large enough to let the swage fitting pass through.
Ed G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3-piece rigging |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece rigging
Ed,
If I understand your plan, if you make the cable guard that is a part of the
"turning block" properly, that is, close enough to the pulley to prevent the
cable from jumping the pulley, the fitting to the turnbuckle won't pass
through it. The cable guards on pulleys are important for safety.
Just a thought,
John
>
> I haven't done this yet so there may be some unforeseen reason that it
> won't work
> but for what it's worth I'm going to have a turnbuckle end swaged onto
> the inboard end of the airleron cable. To remove the wing just undo the
> turnbuckle barrel from the cable at the control horn and pull the cable
> up through the cowling and through the turning block. I plan to have
> easy access to the turning block but if you don't you could just tape a
> messenger to the cable end when you pull it out. I plan to make the
> cable guide opening large enough to let the swage fitting pass through.
> Ed G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
According to my test pilot, he was intending to do some runway taxi runs when
41CC lifted from the runway and he could only follow it's lead and fly the
pattern. It looked beautiful, sounded smooth and I was on cloud 99 up there
with them. He came down and lightly settled on the runway in a perfect 3
pointer. Next thing I knew he was gone again, this time climbing at a pretty
steep angle, another perfect 3 pointer. Then another 150 ft take off. Boy, am
I proud. He said the ship flew like a dream. Only problem was he had to hold
back pressure on the stick on down wind at 2100. Remember I told you he only
weights 135 lbs. He reported all controls were quick and effective. Good
elevator response on flare. Chris I think I'll stick with those W & B tips
you gave me.
It's been a long day which ended happily. I can't really describe the inner
feeling I had seeing our work Joe take to the air.
Corky in La where they tell me we are going to have some wind tonight
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brants" <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First flight |
that's awsome! congratulations! Hope I get to see that some day with mine.
Again, well done and rellish the moment!
Tom Brant, MPLS
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First flight
>
> Pieters,
> According to my test pilot, he was intending to do some runway taxi runs
when
> 41CC lifted from the runway and he could only follow it's lead and fly the
> pattern. It looked beautiful, sounded smooth and I was on cloud 99 up
there
> with them. He came down and lightly settled on the runway in a perfect 3
> pointer. Next thing I knew he was gone again, this time climbing at a
pretty
> steep angle, another perfect 3 pointer. Then another 150 ft take off. Boy,
am
> I proud. He said the ship flew like a dream. Only problem was he had to
hold
> back pressure on the stick on down wind at 2100. Remember I told you he
only
> weights 135 lbs. He reported all controls were quick and effective. Good
> elevator response on flare. Chris I think I'll stick with those W & B tips
> you gave me.
> It's been a long day which ended happily. I can't really describe the
inner
> feeling I had seeing our work Joe take to the air.
> Corky in La where they tell me we are going to have some wind tonight
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Bailing out for a month or so. |
Hey Gents,
The house deal is going through the middle of next month. I am going to unsubscribe.
When I rejoin, I will be in our new home with a two car agarage. Make
that a one car, one airplane garage. Can't wait to set up shop. I have my rib
wood, and will be picking up/borrowing Gene Hubbards rib jig after i get moved
in. Congratulations Corky on your first flights. Good Luck and Godspeed you
way. I'll be back in a month or so. Probably have withdrawls, but don't have
a lot of time in the next month for emails ect.
Doug Blackburn......... Mountain man, moving to the flat lands of So. Cal.
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
ArrowBear Lake Ca.
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Ed G.) |
| Subject: | Re: 3-piece rigging |
You're right John ...a cable guide might throw a stick in the spokes.
Maybe I can modify it to let the fitting pass through it. I guess I'll
have to buy a fitting just to see if I can make it work . This was just
my solution to a problem not covered by the plans so I thought I would
throw it out to the group. It would eliminate 4 eyesplices 2 connectors
and 2 access covers plus make the airleron cables one piece.
"Simplicate and add lightness" Thanks for the input. I'll let you know
if I can make it work. Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John_Duprey(at)vmed.org |
| Subject: | Re: First flight |
10/03/2002 07:35:19 AM
Congratulations!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
czech-list(at)matronics.com, europa-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com,
glasair-list(at)matronics.com, homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com,
kolb-list(at)matronics.com, kr-list(at)matronics.com, lancair-list(at)matronics.com,
pelican-list(at)matronics.com, pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com,
piper-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com,
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, rv4-list(at)matronics.com, rv6-list(at)matronics.com,
rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, sonerai-list(at)matronics.com,
tailwind-list(at)matronics.com, ultralight-list(at)matronics.com,
warbird-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com,
zenith-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In |
EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In
Saturday, October 19, 2002, Hampton Roads Exec (PVG), Virginia, 9AM till
7PM
Hampton Roads Exec (PVG) is 27nm SW of Norfolk, Virginia (253 radial
?ORF)
AWOS 118.375
CTAF 123.0
The weather will be a perfect Virginia fall day!
Aircraft parking is off taxiway between Rwy 23 and T-Hangars East of
Airport Terminal
Schedule of Events
Fly-In Begins 9AM
Food all Day 10AM ? 3PM
Poker Run (Walk Around Field)
Project Visits on Field
Aircraft Judging 11AM ? 3PM, All Categories, Antiques, Classics,
Homebuilts, Warbirds
Social Hour 4PM
Dinner 5PM ? 7PM, BBQ Sandwiches, Chicken, Drinks
Local motels/hotels are available
For More Information
Frank Toy 757-460-3680
ftoy(at)att.net
Richard Reynolds 757-627-8743
rvreynolds(at)macs.net
EAA Chapter 339
http://home.earthlink.net/~avyator/
Hampton Roads Exec Airport
http://www.hamptonroadsexecutiveairport.com/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Fw: FW: Ruling |
billyn(at)email.msn.com, RBranch608(at)aol.com, wayfollower(at)cox.net,
claudiabartlett(at)austin.rr.com, T_FIN(at)Compuserve.com,
gdouglasrice(at)hotmail.com, rhansen(at)eaa.org, hmposer(at)charter.net,
Howdyhilary(at)aol.com, fleece(at)cox-internet.com, jamestownesimmons(at)yahoo.com,
jbrainis(at)venturetraining.net, LCJELKS(at)aol.com, JimNikls(at)aol.com,
Herzog807(at)msn.com, johnfoster(at)austin.rr.com, jmcnarry(at)escape.ca,
Jajouett(at)aol.com, akessler(at)iamerica.net, laurenfoster(at)austin.rr.com,
J23(at)aol.com, tvlux(at)cox.net, MAGSOUR(at)aol.com, Mvphipps39(at)aol.com,
RobertBeachbum(at)aol.com, copper-beech(at)juno.com
Hey Dick,
I'm finally coming down to earth. Last evening just about sunset she flew. It
was probably the most beautiful sight I've ever seen other than the first
time I looked at Isabelle. My test pilot came out after work, taxied a little
on one taxi way then said he felt like making some taxi tests on the active.
We went to that side of the airport to get a better view. He ran up for about
a minute and then went on the active for more taxi tests but gave too much
throttle and in about 150 ft he realized he was flying amd he did'nt stop.
Beautiful climb out, not steep, nice left turn, it sounded great on downwind,
nice decending turns to base and final and a beautiful 3 pointer on the
numbers,
. Isabelle and I were beside ourselves. One of the greatest moments of my
life. Worth all the work, frustration and all. He didn't stop but took off
again and made a much steeper climb out. Went to pattern before making his
first turn. He made three pattern rounds before he had to stop for dfarkness.
Said he had to hold back pressure on the stick at cruise. Hell, he didn't
weigh but 135 lbs so I think the W & B is good. Everything else he said felt
perfect. Rudder, ailerons easy and responsive. Elevator on flare was very
effective, I particularly watched that on all his landings.
Keep working, its all worthwhile. I think I'll share this with the list once
more.
Corky in La still waiting for the wind and rain
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
| Subject: | Thomasville fly-in |
Hey Don, Ted, Bert, Mike,
I plan to be there, hope the weather is better than this weekend is looking
like.
Don't know if I'll drive of fly, Harry may come also.
Will look you guys up when we arrive.
Skip
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
Corky,
Congratulations again! Now you not only have a legit aircraft, but a great
flying one also.
Thanks for the answer to my question. I guess I was assuming a vertical
stick would equal neutral elevator, and now I see, adjust the cables to get
the movement you need up and down and let neutral fall where ever it will.
Thanks
Skip
PS Keep your head down, just heard Lili has been down graded to cat 1, but
that is still a hurricane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
Woowee! Corky. Hey, can you ride as crew in the States?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First flight
Pieters,
According to my test pilot, he was intending to do some runway taxi runs
when
41CC lifted from the runway and he could only follow it's lead and fly the
pattern. It looked beautiful, sounded smooth and I was on cloud 99 up there
with them. He came down and lightly settled on the runway in a perfect 3
pointer. Next thing I knew he was gone again, this time climbing at a pretty
steep angle, another perfect 3 pointer. Then another 150 ft take off. Boy,
am
I proud. He said the ship flew like a dream. Only problem was he had to hold
back pressure on the stick on down wind at 2100. Remember I told you he only
weights 135 lbs. He reported all controls were quick and effective. Good
elevator response on flare. Chris I think I'll stick with those W & B tips
you gave me.
It's been a long day which ended happily. I can't really describe the inner
feeling I had seeing our work Joe take to the air.
Corky in La where they tell me we are going to have some wind tonight
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First flight |
Yes, I can ride after the 25 hrs fly off or if it would be necessary to go
with my test pilot as to determine some safety feature of the craft. Of
course if I could find some kid with a Private license to go then I could fly
my plane. There are a few options. I'm exploring them all.
Corky in La where we hardly got wet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First flight |
That is great Corky. Hope the wind did not get to you.
Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First flight
>
> Pieters,
> According to my test pilot, he was intending to do some runway taxi runs
when
> 41CC lifted from the runway and he could only follow it's lead and fly the
> pattern. It looked beautiful, sounded smooth and I was on cloud 99 up
there
> with them. He came down and lightly settled on the runway in a perfect 3
> pointer. Next thing I knew he was gone again, this time climbing at a
pretty
> steep angle, another perfect 3 pointer. Then another 150 ft take off. Boy,
am
> I proud. He said the ship flew like a dream. Only problem was he had to
hold
> back pressure on the stick on down wind at 2100. Remember I told you he
only
> weights 135 lbs. He reported all controls were quick and effective. Good
> elevator response on flare. Chris I think I'll stick with those W & B tips
> you gave me.
> It's been a long day which ended happily. I can't really describe the
inner
> feeling I had seeing our work Joe take to the air.
> Corky in La where they tell me we are going to have some wind tonight
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Corky wrote:
>According to my test pilot, he was intending to do some runway taxi
>runs when 41CC lifted from the runway and he could only follow it's
>lead and fly the pattern.
Then your test pilot wasn't the pilot-in-command, was he?
As much as anyone, I long for the moment when I make the first flight in my
homebuilt. It's something I think about very often, and it's the carrot
that dangles out there every time I look at the plans, parts, and disarray
in the shop. However, I've read enough to realize that "just going for it"
on your first flight can cost you your hiney and all your hard work. More
than that, it can cost all the rest of us our hineys and our hard work
because folks think of "those handmade little airplanes" as being dangerous
and that we shouldn't be up there playing with non-certified toys. Just
think of the newspaper stories you've seen where some guy drills it in on
his first flight because he "just went for it" rather than carefully shaking
down the bird a step at a time.
Plan your test flights, then fly your test plans. Your test pilot may have
winked at you as you pulled the chocks, and everything turned out
marvelously, but just think of the possibilities if he had found that
something wasn't quite right 200 ft. up rather than just rolling down the
runway on a fast taxi.
End of lecture. I will have a hard time sticking to a regimented flight
test sequence when that moment comes, but believe me- you will hear me
yelling "waaaahhhoooooo!" for miles around when it actually happens.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: first flight |
Oscar,
I think I may have conveyed the wrong impression of our first flight. My
tester had his wits at all times. He is one of the most articulate people
I've ever met. His taxi tests have lasted hours these last weeks. He has on
at least 3 occasions inspected every nut, bolt, cables, pivots and every inch
of 41CC even with a magnifying glass. When he took the active he knew exactly
what that plane was capable of doing otherwise I assure you it would never
have left the ground. Edwin Johnson is a very experienced pilot holding ALL
the ratings w/ over 11K hours and about 4k in draggers. I'm sorry that the
way I described that first flight conveyed an impression of carelessness.
Nothing could be further from fact.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: first flight |
Hey Oscar, The plane has it's airworthy cert. As in worthy to be in the air,
ready to fly, hey, you can fly this plane in the
sky. The test pilot, as long as he felt the plane was ready, didn't do
anything wrong.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: first flight
>
> Corky wrote:
>
> >According to my test pilot, he was intending to do some runway taxi
> >runs when 41CC lifted from the runway and he could only follow it's
> >lead and fly the pattern.
>
> Then your test pilot wasn't the pilot-in-command, was he?
>
> As much as anyone, I long for the moment when I make the first flight in
my
> homebuilt. It's something I think about very often, and it's the carrot
> that dangles out there every time I look at the plans, parts, and disarray
> in the shop. However, I've read enough to realize that "just going for
it"
> on your first flight can cost you your hiney and all your hard work. More
> than that, it can cost all the rest of us our hineys and our hard work
> because folks think of "those handmade little airplanes" as being
dangerous
> and that we shouldn't be up there playing with non-certified toys. Just
> think of the newspaper stories you've seen where some guy drills it in on
> his first flight because he "just went for it" rather than carefully
shaking
> down the bird a step at a time.
>
> Plan your test flights, then fly your test plans. Your test pilot may
have
> winked at you as you pulled the chocks, and everything turned out
> marvelously, but just think of the possibilities if he had found that
> something wasn't quite right 200 ft. up rather than just rolling down the
> runway on a fast taxi.
>
> End of lecture. I will have a hard time sticking to a regimented flight
> test sequence when that moment comes, but believe me- you will hear me
> yelling "waaaahhhoooooo!" for miles around when it actually happens.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: first flight |
Help!!! I am using the extended fuselage plans as I will be using a Corvair
engine. I am unsure of what dimensions to use for the cross braces as there
are none given with the extended fuselage plans. The area of concern is
from the pilot seat aft.
Any help offered would be appreciated.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: first flight
>
> Corky wrote:
>
> >According to my test pilot, he was intending to do some runway taxi
> >runs when 41CC lifted from the runway and he could only follow it's
> >lead and fly the pattern.
>
> Then your test pilot wasn't the pilot-in-command, was he?
>
> As much as anyone, I long for the moment when I make the first flight in
my
> homebuilt. It's something I think about very often, and it's the carrot
> that dangles out there every time I look at the plans, parts, and disarray
> in the shop. However, I've read enough to realize that "just going for
it"
> on your first flight can cost you your hiney and all your hard work. More
> than that, it can cost all the rest of us our hineys and our hard work
> because folks think of "those handmade little airplanes" as being
dangerous
> and that we shouldn't be up there playing with non-certified toys. Just
> think of the newspaper stories you've seen where some guy drills it in on
> his first flight because he "just went for it" rather than carefully
shaking
> down the bird a step at a time.
>
> Plan your test flights, then fly your test plans. Your test pilot may
have
> winked at you as you pulled the chocks, and everything turned out
> marvelously, but just think of the possibilities if he had found that
> something wasn't quite right 200 ft. up rather than just rolling down the
> runway on a fast taxi.
>
> End of lecture. I will have a hard time sticking to a regimented flight
> test sequence when that moment comes, but believe me- you will hear me
> yelling "waaaahhhoooooo!" for miles around when it actually happens.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
| Subject: | Rear Fuselage Cross Members |
From the pilot's seat aft, I believe the dimensions are identical on the two
versions. Be VERY CAREFUL in interpreting the positioning of the cross
pieces near the tailpost--top and bottom are different, and they have to be.
It's been a couple of years since I did that part, and I'd have to look up
and remember the details.
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Sloan [mailto:alexms1(at)bellsouth.net]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: first flight
Help!!! I am using the extended fuselage plans as I will be using a Corvair
engine. I am unsure of what dimensions to use for the cross braces as there
are none given with the extended fuselage plans. The area of concern is
from the pilot seat aft.
Any help offered would be appreciated.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: first flight
>
> Corky wrote:
>
> >According to my test pilot, he was intending to do some runway taxi
> >runs when 41CC lifted from the runway and he could only follow it's
> >lead and fly the pattern.
>
> Then your test pilot wasn't the pilot-in-command, was he?
>
> As much as anyone, I long for the moment when I make the first flight in
my
> homebuilt. It's something I think about very often, and it's the carrot
> that dangles out there every time I look at the plans, parts, and disarray
> in the shop. However, I've read enough to realize that "just going for
it"
> on your first flight can cost you your hiney and all your hard work. More
> than that, it can cost all the rest of us our hineys and our hard work
> because folks think of "those handmade little airplanes" as being
dangerous
> and that we shouldn't be up there playing with non-certified toys. Just
> think of the newspaper stories you've seen where some guy drills it in on
> his first flight because he "just went for it" rather than carefully
shaking
> down the bird a step at a time.
>
> Plan your test flights, then fly your test plans. Your test pilot may
have
> winked at you as you pulled the chocks, and everything turned out
> marvelously, but just think of the possibilities if he had found that
> something wasn't quite right 200 ft. up rather than just rolling down the
> runway on a fast taxi.
>
> End of lecture. I will have a hard time sticking to a regimented flight
> test sequence when that moment comes, but believe me- you will hear me
> yelling "waaaahhhoooooo!" for miles around when it actually happens.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Piet building in Plano |
Well, I don't have anything to add to the "did the test pilot make the right
decision or not" discussions or whatever....but......
After checking the databases, I found one tail number that looked close to
what I wanted. But the FAA told me it was not actually available, it had been
reserved. But wait, it would be available in 6 days. Well, ok! I made sure
the request got there on the exact day the number became available....so
NX25JM is "mine". (Well, ok, they only issued N25JM...I'll add the "X").
Probably not an event anyone will want to add to their personal diarys (some
may even wish I had added that HORRIBLY OVERUSED expression "do not
archi_e"...dang, I wish NOBODY would EVER use that!) but it's a pretty big
event for me!
Sure looking forward to Wichita-Benton next weekend.....
Enjoying reliving Air Camper rides I took at Brodhead this year (taped
everything from takeoff to landing!). Finally copied to CD so I could watch
on a laptop....
Neat picture of a recently completed GN1 (with a color scheme ALMOST as nice
as 41CC) in the current EAA Sport Aviation....
Jim in Plano, TX
NX25JM
(where the sky is incredibly blue today....and all the ribs are done, horiz
stab and elevators are done and vert stab and wood are layed out.....)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Piet building in Plano |
Well, I don't have anything to add to the "did the test pilot make the right
decision or not" discussions or whatever....but......
After checking the databases, I found one tail number that looked close to
what I wanted. But the FAA told me it was not actually available, it had been
reserved. But wait, it would be available in 6 days. Well, ok! I made sure
the request got there on the exact day the number became available....so
NX25JM is "mine". (Well, ok, they only issued N25JM...I'll add the "X").
Probably not an event anyone will want to add to their personal diarys (some
may even wish I had added that HORRIBLY OVERUSED expression "do not
archi_e"...dang, I wish NOBODY would EVER use that!) but it's a pretty big
event for me!
Sure looking forward to Wichita-Benton next weekend.....
Enjoying reliving Air Camper rides I took at Brodhead this year (taped
everything from takeoff to landing!). Finally copied to CD so I could watch
on a laptop....
Neat picture of a recently completed GN1 (with a color scheme ALMOST as nice
as 41CC) in the current EAA Sport Aviation....
Jim in Plano, TX
NX25JM
(where the sky is incredibly blue today....and all the ribs are done, horiz
stab and elevators are done and vert stab and wood are layed out.....)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Piet building in Plano |
Jim,
Don't worry about what anyone thinks when you're reporting events that lifts
you. Do your thing and if it kicks you in the ass go ahead and float.
Corky in La still on a big high
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 10/4/2002 4:08:14 PM Central Daylight Time,
bike.mike(at)verizon.net writes:
Pieters, This nice letter from Mike says it better than I could have done.
May I share it with you. And we have eight children.
>
> Corky,
>
> I know this may not carry much weight, being a lawyer's opinion, but I felt
> kind of teary eyed reading your first flight message. I've never seen one
> of my own creations fly... it's got to be a little like seeing your child
> born.
> I, for one, never had any doubts about the capabilities of your test pilot.
> The flight you described was just textbook fine from the viewpoint of this
> once-upon-a-time flight test engineer.
> One highly regarded test pilot I know, who has flown upwards of 100
> homebuilt 1st flights, says that you taxi-test slowly at first, then a
> little faster, then finally the little bird will let you know it wants to
> fly. You don't get to decide when that will happen.
>
> Mike Hardaway
>
>
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 14:07:50 -0700
Subject: 1st Flight
From: Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net>
Corky,
I know this may not carry much weight, being a lawyer's opinion, but I felt
kind of teary eyed reading your first flight message. I've never seen one
of my own creations fly... it's got to be a little like seeing your child
born.
I, for one, never had any doubts about the capabilities of your test pilot.
The flight you described was just textbook fine from the viewpoint of this
once-upon-a-time flight test engineer.
One highly regarded test pilot I know, who has flown upwards of 100
homebuilt 1st flights, says that you taxi-test slowly at first, then a
little faster, then finally the little bird will let you know it wants to
fly. You don't get to decide when that will happen.
Mike Hardaway
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
Way to go, Corky!
Oscar, I agree with your views on planning the flight, then flying the plan.
However, even the professionals sometimes get caught in situations where the
best thing to do is fly the airplane even when not expecting to. When I was
a young engineer just out of college, I went to work for General Dynamics in
Fort Worth, working on the initial design of the F-16 jet fighter. The F-16
was the world's first "fly-by-wire" production fighter, but it didn't come
without problems. A friend of mine, Phil Oestreicher, was one of the test
pilots on the program. He was conducting a high speed taxi test on the
August 30, 2002 - October 04, 2002
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-cu