Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-cw
November 07, 2002 - November 27, 2002
pilot who has never had an accident. He also indicates that he feels
perfectly capable of flying his Pietenpol Air Camper but is not lawfully
allowed to do so, because he cannot obtain an FAA airman medical
certificate.
The FAA's Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) "Certification of Aircraft
and
Airmen for the Operation of Light-Sport Aircraft" proposes for "sport
pilots"
an alternative means of demonstrating an acceptable level of medical
fitness.
This proposal also incorporates, in part, an existing FAA regulation that
requires airmen, even those not required to hold an FAA medical certificate,
to refrain from flying when they know or have reason to know that they are
not medically capable of flying. The FAA is currently analyzing more than
2,500 comments received to this February 2002 proposal and is working to
issue a final rule by late 2003
If you or your staff need further assistance, please contact Mr. David
Balloff, Assistant Administrator for Government and Industry Affairs, at
(202) 267-3277.
Sincerely, Jon L Jordan, M.D.
Federal Air Surgeon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now, what do you think about that reply. Did you get that "late 2003". Bet
next year they will begin defering it until after the elections of 04.
Are we suppose to believe Dr Jordan is busting his A-- to pass something
which will DECREASE his authority. No way folks. I still smell a bunch of
beauro skunks in D C.
Sorry to bore the list with this but I really wish more of you would become
obnoxious and bug you politicos on this subject. I'm not getting anxious but
my time is about to run out.
Corky in La where politics are really going to pop for the next 30 days
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
John,
Thanks for the encouragement, but I would like to be able to fly 11 months of
the year here in La rather than 6 weeks up thar.
Corky, aging everyday waiting for NPRM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Corky,
I'm all behind you, but I don't understand. How does someone like me in New
Jersey modify that letter for the cause up here?
fill me in.
walt
In sunny (yeah right) NJ
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: NPRM
>
> Pieters,
> Here I go again, same song, same tune, same verse. The letter is self
> explainatory.
>
> U S Dept of Transportation
>
> Federal Aviation Administration
>
>
> The Honorable Jim McCrery ( La 7th Dist)
> Member, U S House of Rep
>
> Dear Congressman McCrery:
>
> Thank you for your letter of Oct 2 on behalf of Mr. Claude M Corbett of
> Shreveport.
> Mr. Corbett requests your support and initiative to persuade the Federal
> Aviation Administration (FAA) "to expedite the effectiveness of the Sport
> Pilot category."
> Your constituent indicates that he is a long time commercial and military
> pilot who has never had an accident. He also indicates that he feels
> perfectly capable of flying his Pietenpol Air Camper but is not lawfully
> allowed to do so, because he cannot obtain an FAA airman medical
certificate.
>
> The FAA's Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) "Certification of Aircraft
and
> Airmen for the Operation of Light-Sport Aircraft" proposes for "sport
pilots"
> an alternative means of demonstrating an acceptable level of medical
fitness.
> This proposal also incorporates, in part, an existing FAA regulation that
> requires airmen, even those not required to hold an FAA medical
certificate,
> to refrain from flying when they know or have reason to know that they are
> not medically capable of flying. The FAA is currently analyzing more than
> 2,500 comments received to this February 2002 proposal and is working to
> issue a final rule by late 2003
>
> If you or your staff need further assistance, please contact Mr. David
> Balloff, Assistant Administrator for Government and Industry Affairs, at
> (202) 267-3277.
>
> Sincerely, Jon L Jordan, M.D.
> Federal Air Surgeon
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Now, what do you think about that reply. Did you get that "late 2003". Bet
> next year they will begin defering it until after the elections of 04.
> Are we suppose to believe Dr Jordan is busting his A-- to pass something
> which will DECREASE his authority. No way folks. I still smell a bunch of
> beauro skunks in D C.
>
> Sorry to bore the list with this but I really wish more of you would
become
> obnoxious and bug you politicos on this subject. I'm not getting anxious
but
> my time is about to run out.
>
> Corky in La where politics are really going to pop for the next 30 days
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flying wires |
Thanks to Walt and Chuck for the info. The answer is - I will temporarily
clamp the wires till the question is settled.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying wires
>
> In a message dated 11/5/02 9:56:15 PM Central Standard Time,
> horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:
>
> << Will the length of the flying wires change drasticly as I jocky the
wing
> for balancing? >>
>
> Dick, when I moved my wing back to get the C.G. right, I had to shorten
two
> of them, and make two new ones.
> Chuck G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: three point or wheel landing |
Walt,
If you are socked in for the winter, I would be more than happy to keep your Piet
in sunny Fla. (No charge of course).
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | FAA, Fisherman, and full-stall landings |
Howdy, folks;
Really enjoying the posts lately. I have to weigh in on Corky's predicament
waiting for the Sport Pilot proposal to creep through the
Washington/Oklahoma City maze. Corky, if "the Fisherman" were still on this
list he'd advise you to either move down to Belize (where he rules as king
and there are no license requirements) or go ahead and fly it but keep your
Piet down just above the tops of the sugar cane and nobody will ever know
you're even flying. But seriously- I hope the thing picks up speed so you
can get some stick time in your bird!
Regarding 3-point full-stall vs. wheel landings, all of my tailwheel
instructors have emphasized full-stall landings, all the time. They are all
high-timers in tailwheel, everything from Goonie Birds to Luscombes to
Cassutts. Now the Cassutt has to be brought in pretty hot, but the only
real reason to try to hold its tailwheel off is that it's smaller than a
shopping cart wheel (more like the wheel off an inline skate) and makes a
heck of a racket rolling across the pavement at 60 MPH. My last instructor,
up in Oregon, wouldn't even let me do wheel landings in the J-3 we were
flying. He insisted on full-stall landings every time, saying that it
demands better technique in crosswinds. I'll say!!!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Corky,
Again , on this letter, how can I use this to get my politicians up north
to move on this? What's the proper procedure?
give us a form letter that we can send, and we'll do it.
who do we send it to? sorry, I'm ignorant.
I'm behind you 100%
walt
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: NPRM
>
> Pieters,
> Here I go again, same song, same tune, same verse. The letter is self
> explainatory.
>
> U S Dept of Transportation
>
> Federal Aviation Administration
>
>
> The Honorable Jim McCrery ( La 7th Dist)
> Member, U S House of Rep
>
> Dear Congressman McCrery:
>
> Thank you for your letter of Oct 2 on behalf of Mr. Claude M Corbett of
> Shreveport.
> Mr. Corbett requests your support and initiative to persuade the Federal
> Aviation Administration (FAA) "to expedite the effectiveness of the Sport
> Pilot category."
> Your constituent indicates that he is a long time commercial and military
> pilot who has never had an accident. He also indicates that he feels
> perfectly capable of flying his Pietenpol Air Camper but is not lawfully
> allowed to do so, because he cannot obtain an FAA airman medical
certificate.
>
> The FAA's Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) "Certification of Aircraft
and
> Airmen for the Operation of Light-Sport Aircraft" proposes for "sport
pilots"
> an alternative means of demonstrating an acceptable level of medical
fitness.
> This proposal also incorporates, in part, an existing FAA regulation that
> requires airmen, even those not required to hold an FAA medical
certificate,
> to refrain from flying when they know or have reason to know that they are
> not medically capable of flying. The FAA is currently analyzing more than
> 2,500 comments received to this February 2002 proposal and is working to
> issue a final rule by late 2003
>
> If you or your staff need further assistance, please contact Mr. David
> Balloff, Assistant Administrator for Government and Industry Affairs, at
> (202) 267-3277.
>
> Sincerely, Jon L Jordan, M.D.
> Federal Air Surgeon
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Now, what do you think about that reply. Did you get that "late 2003". Bet
> next year they will begin defering it until after the elections of 04.
> Are we suppose to believe Dr Jordan is busting his A-- to pass something
> which will DECREASE his authority. No way folks. I still smell a bunch of
> beauro skunks in D C.
>
> Sorry to bore the list with this but I really wish more of you would
become
> obnoxious and bug you politicos on this subject. I'm not getting anxious
but
> my time is about to run out.
>
> Corky in La where politics are really going to pop for the next 30 days
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Walt,
Sorry but you are 3 days late. The time to get anything heard is before the
election, not after. You want get a whimper out of those scalawags for
another two years when they come up for reelection. As I said in a previous
epistle, those FAAers are not about to surrender ANY authority. Have you ever
heard of the government abolishing any taxes?,
Those organizations such as AOPA, EAA, ASSES or any one who take your dues
and give you promises are in between it. They areNOT going to stick their
necks and get the beauros to cut out that non-profit status by arguing with
them and on the other hand they have to say smething to keep those membership
dollars coming in.
It's very apparent to me but I'm the southern kook who makes all the noises.
I'd better stop and go fix me a double Southern MJ.
Corky in La where I will write Sen. Landrieu a request to kick FAA in the Ass
and get them moving. She is in a run off election Dec 7 so I still have a
politico to write again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Thanks Graham,
It's obvious to me even though we've never met that you and I are old and
ugly enough to smell politics in it's rawest forms. Too bad these kids who
are just starting out are so vulnerable to the propaganda of the beauros.
They'll learn the hard way. Maybe
Ole Corky in La getting ready to put NX41CC on the block when his test pilot
finishes the 25 hrs. I've just about had enough and besides the fun was in
the building.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Now just suppose that ol' Corky has a really good friend
who happens to be a pilot.
Now just suppose that pilot friend has a really bad phobia
about flying planes from the back seat,just doesn't like it!
Now if he was to take Corky flying in his Piet, I guess
Corky would have to sit in the back seat......
As a passenger, of course.
Don't count on the sport Plane proposal to include plans
built AC. Here in Canada it's shaping up to require
manufactured kits built strictly to specs. And to allow
only approved kits at that. The manufacurers have to apply.
Take the case of the Challenger. It flies ok as an open
sided AC but add side curtains and it's a different story.
Add floats as well-oh, oh. In England it is a REQUIREMENT
that challengers have an added fin. Gov approved.
In Canada and probably the States as well a fin or extra tail
fins al la the Beaver and other float planes won't be allowed.
Challenger has already refused to factory approve such
additions. They're not interested, take it or leave it.
----- Original Message -----
From: <isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: NPRM
>
> Thanks Graham,
> It's obvious to me even though we've never met that you and I are old and
> ugly enough to smell politics in it's rawest forms. Too bad these kids who
> are just starting out are so vulnerable to the propaganda of the beauros.
> They'll learn the hard way. Maybe
>
> Ole Corky in La getting ready to put NX41CC on the block when his test
pilot
> finishes the 25 hrs. I've just about had enough and besides the fun was in
> the building.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | It flies great!!! |
Finally got everything straight in my head and, after one 3 ft high hop and a return
to start point, ol' NX140DL took to the skies.
I was amazed @ 60MPH climbout, the rate of climb was 650fpm, went up like a rocket!
(guess empty weight of 595# helped).
I always marveled at Mike Cuy's video of him climbing at a great pace.
At altitude, throttled back to 2150rpm, and indicated just over 80mph.
Very docile to land, lots better than the J-3.
I'm a happy guy.
1 down/24 to go
walt
NX140DL
(north N.J.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | It flies great!!! |
Way to go, Walt!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walter
evans
Subject: Pietenpol-List: It flies great!!!
Finally got everything straight in my head and, after one 3 ft high hop and
a return to start point, ol' NX140DL took to the skies.
I was amazed @ 60MPH climbout, the rate of climb was 650fpm, went up like a
rocket! (guess empty weight of 595# helped).
I always marveled at Mike Cuy's video of him climbing at a great pace.
At altitude, throttled back to 2150rpm, and indicated just over 80mph.
Very docile to land, lots better than the J-3.
I'm a happy guy.
1 down/24 to go
walt
NX140DL
(north N.J.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | steamlaunch(at)softhome.net |
| Subject: | Graphlite Laminated Spar |
Just sounding a note to see if there is interest in development of a
laminated spar design for Pietenpols. My thoughts are in light of the
scarcity of good spruce and high shipping cost, individuals could buy rolled
composite materials for the spars and use good local doug fir for the
balance of the wing and fuselage. This should make the Piet available to
even more people in the tradition of BH Pietenpol. For the purist keep in
mind that wood is really the original composite material, and this would be
a natural extension of the line much like the three piece wing.
No real cost savings as the materials will run $3-500 but with appropiate
attachment strategy "fitting design" very reliable spars could be had with
simple fabrication methods within reach of any Piet builder.
Comments? Other Collaborators? Co-operative development?
Matt
Materials
http://www.continuo.com/marske/carbon/carbon.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | It flies great!!! |
I can only imagine Walt. Congratulations!
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | Graphite Laminated Spar |
Why not Matt, Bernard laminated spars and if he had and could afford
graphite he might have used it!
The caution is to keep it simple!
John
With a one inch thick aircraft, waiting for space to slip ribs on spars.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
steamlaunch(at)softhome.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Graphlite Laminated Spar
Just sounding a note to see if there is interest in development of a
laminated spar design for Pietenpols. My thoughts are in light of the
scarcity of good spruce and high shipping cost, individuals could buy rolled
composite materials for the spars and use good local doug fir for the
balance of the wing and fuselage. This should make the Piet available to
even more people in the tradition of BH Pietenpol. For the purist keep in
mind that wood is really the original composite material, and this would be
a natural extension of the line much like the three piece wing.
No real cost savings as the materials will run $3-500 but with appropiate
attachment strategy "fitting design" very reliable spars could be had with
simple fabrication methods within reach of any Piet builder.
Comments? Other Collaborators? Co-operative development?
Matt
Materials
http://www.continuo.com/marske/carbon/carbon.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: It flies great!!! |
Jack, John,
Yeah, It's everything the other guys said it would be.
thanks.
walt
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: It flies great!!!
>
> I can only imagine Walt. Congratulations!
> John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jannica Wunge" <jannicaw(at)hotmail.com> |
Hello Pieters.
Here in Sweden it is both difficult and expensive to obtain American spruce.
On the other hand we have plenty of cheap, first class, Swedish fir. We are
just three Air Camper builders in this country and as far as I know in the
whole of Scandinavia. My buddy and me are both going for a laminated spar
and it is all right with the Swedish EAA branch. My friend Per has already
finished his wing with the spar and it looks great. I am going to start
working on the spar in a couple of months.
It consists of five pieces of first class fir 1 x 1 x 14 laminated
together to form a solid piece of 5 x 1 x 14. It is then milled down to 4
x x 132 for the three-piece wing. Next step is to build up the
I-beam shape by laminating four pieces x x 14 to each spar, two at
the top and two at the bottom. Last step is to laminate in fillers made of
ply where the spar has a solid cross section. I hope you can follow this
description.
Per has glued his spar as well as his whole aeroplane with recorsinol glue.
I on the other hand am using epoxy. Of course this is going to end up a
little heavier then a spruce-spar but on the other hand it will be many
times stronger.
Congratulations Corky! You have built a very nice looking aeroplane. I use a
picture of you in front of your machine as a background on my computer. It
is a great inspiration to me and helps me to explain to other people what I
am doing.
For what it is worth.
Jannica Wunge
MSN Motor: Kp & slj din bil hr http://carview.msn.se/bilsok/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Laminated spar. |
Jannica,
Thank you for the compliment. I need all I can get. I wonder if your fir is
of the quality so as to use a solid spar. If so, I would sure experiment at
least before going through the efforts building up one. I used a solid 3/4
fir spur with a little routing per plans but I would never route again as the
savings were not worth the work of routing. I also cut an angle atop each
spar with alignment to the rib to avoid those tacky little wedges, That is
also an unnecessay operation, in my opinion. As far as strength is concerned,
that wing as designed will hold up anything you can load in the plane. Hope
you end up with a plane you are proud
Corky,La, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Graphlite Laminated Spar |
Matt,
The add-on graphite laminate for a piet spar has been something I've been
thinking about too -- all it might take is a 1/2" wide x 1/8" deep groove
on the top & bottom of even a 3/4" wide spar for (4) of the 1/8" dia. rods
set in epoxy (?)-- run them the full span of the wing for a one piece
wing -- attach fittings wouldn't need much if any changes.
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: <steamlaunch(at)softhome.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Graphlite Laminated Spar
>
> Just sounding a note to see if there is interest in development of a
> laminated spar design for Pietenpols. My thoughts are in light of the
> scarcity of good spruce and high shipping cost, individuals could buy
rolled
> composite materials for the spars and use good local doug fir for the
> balance of the wing and fuselage. This should make the Piet available to
> even more people in the tradition of BH Pietenpol. For the purist keep in
> mind that wood is really the original composite material, and this would
be
> a natural extension of the line much like the three piece wing.
>
> No real cost savings as the materials will run $3-500 but with appropiate
> attachment strategy "fitting design" very reliable spars could be had
with
> simple fabrication methods within reach of any Piet builder.
>
> Comments? Other Collaborators? Co-operative development?
>
> Matt
>
>
> Materials
> http://www.continuo.com/marske/carbon/carbon.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Green <rog(at)libby.org> |
| Subject: | Graphlite Laminated Spar |
Matt,
Graphlite Laminated Spar - I don't know about spars. That is I have no
experience with this material. I have been wondering if it or carbon fiber
could be used to make a very light tailwheel mount. The thought of saving
a pound of two that far back intrigues me. Any one care to comment?
ROG
NX899RG (Yet to be)
Roger Green, 209 Luscher Drive, Libby, MT 59923
E-Mail: rog(at)libby.org Phone: (406) 293-2682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Green <rog(at)libby.org> |
Piet List
I want to introduce myself. I have been reading the list since late July
and gathering things to get started. As I write there area a batch of four
cap strips steaming in my shop, about ready for the bending jig.
My intention is to build the long fuselage, powdered by a corvair.
Like Corky, I want to see the Sport Pilot rules get issued. I am not a
pilot (yet). I made one attempt at getting a medical prior to starting
flight training. I know my medical will cost as much as the Piet I'm
building and mostly because of I know and disclose of the conditions I have.
I came to the Piet by way of Model A cars. I have a 1931 Townsedan and
have driven it about 10,000 miles in the last 25 years. That also
influenced my choice of the Corvair engine. If I build a second plane (I
have a daughter that would like to fly), it would probably be an "A".
Question of the day - The rib design from the '30 shows no verticle member
at the spars but the full size draw the youger Pietenpol's sent has them.
What are you guys doing?
ROG
NX899RG (Yet to be)
Roger Green, 209 Luscher Drive, Libby, MT 59923
E-Mail: rog(at)libby.org Phone: (406) 293-2682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Graphlite Laminated Spar |
Hi
I'm planning on using a tailwheel setup like the
sonex. a titanium rod with a light weight 4" hard
rubber wheel that direct steers ( no springs) the
wheel is small enough that it doesn't put enough
forces on the rudder to hurt it. the sonex is the
easiest tailwheel plane to fly because of that
tailwheel setup. and its very light.
Del
http://www.sonex-ltd.com/
--- Roger Green wrote:
>
>
> Matt,
>
> Graphlite Laminated Spar - I don't know about spars.
> That is I have no
> experience with this material. I have been
> wondering if it or carbon fiber
> could be used to make a very light tailwheel mount.
> The thought of saving
> a pound of two that far back intrigues me. Any one
> care to comment?
>
>
> ROG
> NX899RG (Yet to be)
> Roger Green, 209 Luscher Drive, Libby, MT 59923
> E-Mail: rog(at)libby.org Phone: (406) 293-2682
>
>
>
> Month --
> Gifts!)
> Click on the Contribution
> Terrific Free Gifts!
> Dralle, List Admin.
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>
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>
>
=====
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Laminated tailspring was Graphlite Laminated Spar |
Del,
Back in my "formative years" (mid 60's) , I had a neighbor that was working
on semi-composite homebuilt (Ron Scott -- now one of the Sport Avia.Assoc.
board) His plane became known as "Ol' Ironsides" -- it had a homebuilt
fiberglass spring landing gear that he made by building a curved box mold,
filling it with resin & glass filament (he had nails on each end of the mold
& manually ran the fibers from a nail on one end of the mold to the other)
After cure, he bandsawed this 6" wide slab into (2) tapered landing gear
legs (4" wide at the top & 2" wide on the bottom.
Tail springs should be a whole lot easier -- just bundle up the carbon rods
(or??) till you get the deflection you want -- or start with an old
composite leaf spring from one of the newer Corvettes!! & cut it down
(shades of B.H.P.!!;-)
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
P.S. Scotty also made his own fiberglass sheets (instead of plywood) for
covering his wings & fuselage (2 ply of 6 oz. cloth on a waxed masonite
table) -- the name "Ol' Ironsides" came from finding his then 6 year old boy
pounding on the side of the fuselage with a hammer!! (Anyone thought about
fiberglass for the wing leading edge -- as opposed to cardboard??)
----- Original Message -----
From: "del magsam" <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Graphlite Laminated Spar
>
> Hi
> I'm planning on using a tailwheel setup like the
> sonex. a titanium rod with a light weight 4" hard
> rubber wheel that direct steers ( no springs) the
> wheel is small enough that it doesn't put enough
> forces on the rudder to hurt it. the sonex is the
> easiest tailwheel plane to fly because of that
> tailwheel setup. and its very light.
> Del
> http://www.sonex-ltd.com/
> --- Roger Green wrote:
> >
> >
> > Matt,
> >
> > Graphlite Laminated Spar - I don't know about spars.
> > That is I have no
> > experience with this material. I have been
> > wondering if it or carbon fiber
> > could be used to make a very light tailwheel mount.
> > The thought of saving
> > a pound of two that far back intrigues me. Any one
> > care to comment?
> >
> >
> > ROG
> > NX899RG (Yet to be)
> > Roger Green, 209 Luscher Drive, Libby, MT 59923
> > E-Mail: rog(at)libby.org Phone: (406) 293-2682
> >
> >
> >
> > Month --
> > Gifts!)
> > Click on the Contribution
> > Terrific Free Gifts!
> > Dralle, List Admin.
> > _->
> > Forum -
> > Contributions of
> > any other form
> >
> > latest messages.
> > other List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/search
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> Del-New Richmond, Wi
> "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
>
> U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
> http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
ROG,
I used the one with the verticals. ( as I think most others did too)
Stands to reason, without the verticals, there is no sure way of having all
ribs at the same point. With the verticals, the ribs are simply clamped to
the spar at the right spacing , and you have a beautifully perfect wing.
Also another point,,,the gussets that mate to the spar on the other side
from the vertical,,,leave them off , and add them after the spars and the
ribs are glued. If you leave enough space in there to slide the ribs on,
then the gussets will have a large space.
AND,,,when glueing the ribs on, you'll need a zillion clamps. This is where
the clamps made of PVC pipe really come in handy. If you've been following
you'll know about them, If not, me or someone will describe them. They are
one of the coolest tips that I learned off this group. And they cost about
$.01 each.
walt
NX140DL
NJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Green" <rog(at)libby.org>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Builder
>
> Piet List
>
> I want to introduce myself. I have been reading the list since late July
> and gathering things to get started. As I write there area a batch of
four
> cap strips steaming in my shop, about ready for the bending jig.
>
> My intention is to build the long fuselage, powdered by a corvair.
>
> Like Corky, I want to see the Sport Pilot rules get issued. I am not a
> pilot (yet). I made one attempt at getting a medical prior to starting
> flight training. I know my medical will cost as much as the Piet I'm
> building and mostly because of I know and disclose of the conditions I
have.
>
> I came to the Piet by way of Model A cars. I have a 1931 Townsedan and
> have driven it about 10,000 miles in the last 25 years. That also
> influenced my choice of the Corvair engine. If I build a second plane (I
> have a daughter that would like to fly), it would probably be an "A".
>
> Question of the day - The rib design from the '30 shows no verticle member
> at the spars but the full size draw the youger Pietenpol's sent has them.
> What are you guys doing?
>
> ROG
> NX899RG (Yet to be)
> Roger Green, 209 Luscher Drive, Libby, MT 59923
> E-Mail: rog(at)libby.org Phone: (406) 293-2682
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Walt, Wanted to ask how you found the trim on your first flights. Edwin, my
T/P had to hold a little back pressure on the stick the first few flights.
This was solved by twisting the hor stabs a bit.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Corky,
The first flight I found that at cruise, I had to keep slight fwd pressure
in the stick. And when setting up in the pattern , and pulling back to
about 1500 rpm, the pressure went away and it set up for a perfect 65 MPH
glide angle. ( the W&B calculated that with just me and low fuel, I was very
near aft CG) but only had about 6 gals in front tank, with none in top
tank.
Then during the day hand carried some AV fuel from nearby and topped off the
front tank. The last flight of the day it would fly hands off with the
almost full nose tank. ( The nose tank saved the day for me with this
project!!!)
Didn't you say that Edwin was smaller than average, while you are larger
than average?
Cause the case with me, at 210#, I'm packing alot of beef in the rear. ( or
gumbo as it were)
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Builder
>
> Walt, Wanted to ask how you found the trim on your first flights. Edwin,
my
> T/P had to hold a little back pressure on the stick the first few flights.
> This was solved by twisting the hor stabs a bit.
> Corky
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edwin Johnson <elj(at)shreve.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Landings |
To Walt and any others interested in Pietenpol landings...
Guess this is the continuing saga of my checkout and flying the 25
hours on Corky's Piet. And rather a continuation of the landing discussion
I contributed several days ago.
This weekend we had some rather gusty wind conditions, so thought it would
be a good time to try out various landing techniques, as I told Walt I
would do. I flew Sunday when it was somewhat windy and gusting. At the
airport where I was practicing the winds were about 15 mph with gusts to
perhaps around 18-19 mph and about a 10 degree right crosswind. I must
preface this with the fact that fuel load was only about 2/3 tank and my
weight is about 140lb, to put this in perspective.
Also, you should know that this plane stalls power off with an IAS of
about 38 mph, in order to compare with your own. Corky's plane has the
split gear with 600-6 tires.
I first tried wheel landings with a speed on final of about 55 mph and at
the time of touchdown the tail was somewhat low. At touchdown I cut
power and gave small forward pressure on the stick (just enough to keep it
sticking, not much required if you cut power, as to FAA's
recommendations). As the tail begins to fall you should bring back the
stick until all the way back. Be careful, however, in these gusty
conditions not to slam it back rapidly, or you might find yourself flying
again! All of the wheel landings were rather easy to do and gave good,
smooth landings with good control throughout.
I then tried a series of stall landings and must admit the first was not
very graceful. The others were much better, but it takes a _lot_ of
vigilance (read work) to keep the plane from ballooning or being forced
down prematurely to the tarmac when the wind is gusting badly.
So, in conclusion I would say that the wheel landings are much easier to
control in the gusty conditions, probably because of the light weight of
the plane and it's susceptibility to gusts. The plane is very honest and
will do what you tell it, with good aileron control down to the slower
speeds (aren't they all? haahaa), so I suspect larger crosswinds would
also be very controllable.
But I wonder how the wheel landings work with straight axle gear and those
with the spoked wheels which might absorb less shock than the 600-6's. Any
reports on those? I would certainly be interested in other's reports on
such.
...Edwin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Edwin Johnson ....... elj(at)shreve.net ~
~ http://www.shreve.net/~elj ~
~ ~
~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the ~
~ earth with your eyes turned skyward, ~
~ for there you have been, there you long ~
~ to return." -- da Vinci ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Roger: When I built my ribs, I put verticals on both sides of my spar
openings. I made my jig to except 1" wide spars like the plans and the
rib drawing that came with my plans. I ran into trouble when I ordered
my spars from Western Ac. Sup. The spars are 3/4" wide. now I'm going to
have to put a 1/8 strip of ply at each rib location to to take up the
extra 1/4" gap in my rib spar openings. When I built my center section I
found that the vert. stick on the back side of the rear spar is going to
interfere with my aileron cables, so I had to remove them. If I had it
to do over again, I wouldn't put the vertical stick in front of the
front spar or the back side of the rear spar. When I get to my wings I'm
going to cut those vert. sticks out. I may even save a couple of lbs. of
weight. also If you add the vertical sticks, consider weather or not you
are going to use 3/4" wide spars. ( I think 3/4 wide spars are pretty
much the standard these days--cheaper than 1" and they do ok in Pitts
Specials doing hard aerobatics. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
My pipe clamps, with handles, have magicaly
appeared in my picture gallery at ;
www.mykitplane.com Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser Continues... |
Marie Murillo
Dear Listers,
Just a quick reminder this morning that we're well into this year's Email
List Fund Raiser. Response has been great so far and there has been a lot
of interest in the Gift options. Speaking of those Gifts, I received a
sample of the Jeppesen Flight Bag from Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com this weekend, and let me just say that this is
an extremely fine quality unit. Its very light, folds down into a very
small form for storage, and will hold a whole lot of your "pilot
stuff"! For a mere $50 List Contribution, one of these very nice bags
could be yours! You'll be the envy of all your friends.
Won't you make a Contribution today to support the these valuable Email
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Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
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http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John_Duprey(at)vmed.org |
| Subject: | Graphite Laminated Spar |
11/11/2002 08:14:30 AM
Matt: go for it. i would like to hear more about this.
"John McNarry" (at)matronics.com on 11/09/2002 10:43:25 PM
Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Graphite Laminated Spar
Why not Matt, Bernard laminated spars and if he had and could afford
graphite he might have used it!
The caution is to keep it simple!
John
With a one inch thick aircraft, waiting for space to slip ribs on spars.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
steamlaunch(at)softhome.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Graphlite Laminated Spar
Just sounding a note to see if there is interest in development of a
laminated spar design for Pietenpols. My thoughts are in light of the
scarcity of good spruce and high shipping cost, individuals could buy
rolled
composite materials for the spars and use good local doug fir for the
balance of the wing and fuselage. This should make the Piet available to
even more people in the tradition of BH Pietenpol. For the purist keep in
mind that wood is really the original composite material, and this would be
a natural extension of the line much like the three piece wing.
No real cost savings as the materials will run $3-500 but with appropiate
attachment strategy "fitting design" very reliable spars could be had with
simple fabrication methods within reach of any Piet builder.
Comments? Other Collaborators? Co-operative development?
Matt
Materials
http://www.continuo.com/marske/carbon/carbon.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John_Duprey(at)vmed.org |
| Subject: | Re: It flies great!!! |
11/11/2002 08:15:13 AM
Walt: Awsome! job well done!!!
"walter evans" (at)matronics.com on 11/09/2002
09:10:24 PM
Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: It flies great!!!
Finally got everything straight in my head and, after one 3 ft high hop and
a return to start point, ol' NX140DL took to the skies.
I was amazed @ 60MPH climbout, the rate of climb was 650fpm, went up like a
rocket! (guess empty weight of 595# helped).
I always marveled at Mike Cuy's video of him climbing at a great pace.
At altitude, throttled back to 2150rpm, and indicated just over 80mph.
Very docile to land, lots better than the J-3.
I'm a happy guy.
1 down/24 to go
walt
NX140DL
(north N.J.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
I need to talk to some of you Model A experts really fast. Please e-mail me your
phone number so I can ask some questions, I have to make a decision on some
things right away.
Thanks,
Gene Rambo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | piet hats on ebay |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I've got a number of embroidered piet hats selling on ebay for those
interested:
Steve E
Item # 979446369
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Graphlite Laminated Spar |
I've gone through quite an oddessy trying to
find reasonable spruce, then trying for substitutes
and still have no spars so you got me exited!
I've come up with an idea that looks like it will
be stronger, lighter and cheaper than spruce.
Not being an engineer, I don't know if I've
missed some hidden pitfalls so if the engineers
among us could check it out, maybe?
Go to www.kitplanes.com and then into files,
then clif.
What you,ll see is my analysis, very basic, of
a spar laminated from three pieces of 1/4" ply
with two rods embedded in grooves near the top
and bottom. The grooves would be cut on a table
or radial arm saw quite easily. The rods embedded
in these grooves would self align the ply for gluing.
The ply functions structuraly only as the web
component and the rods take care of compression
and tension loads.
these rods are incredibly strong and the two used
here provide considerably more strength than
1" spruce, I think.
Three laminates of 1/4" ply should be very stiff
both in twist and side bending.
Please check my math, mistrakes have been
known to happen.
----- Original Message -----
From: <steamlaunch(at)softhome.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Graphlite Laminated Spar
>
> Just sounding a note to see if there is interest in development of a
> laminated spar design for Pietenpols. My thoughts are in light of the
> scarcity of good spruce and high shipping cost, individuals could buy
rolled
> composite materials for the spars and use good local doug fir for the
> balance of the wing and fuselage. This should make the Piet available to
> even more people in the tradition of BH Pietenpol. For the purist keep in
> mind that wood is really the original composite material, and this would
be
> a natural extension of the line much like the three piece wing.
>
> No real cost savings as the materials will run $3-500 but with appropiate
> attachment strategy "fitting design" very reliable spars could be had
with
> simple fabrication methods within reach of any Piet builder.
>
> Comments? Other Collaborators? Co-operative development?
>
> Matt
>
>
> Materials
> http://www.continuo.com/marske/carbon/carbon.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | landings in a Piet |
Walt, group,
I take em' any way I can get em'. I prefer to land everything all the
time by landing 3 point.
Truth is I never mastered wheel landings but feel good about 3 points. I
can do wheel landings
but they are not as good, even in gusty conditions. One thing I guess I
do is a cross between
a wheel and full stall sometimes when the wind is gusty. It's not a
wheel, and not a full-stall, but
a forced touchdown with the tail low, but not on the ground, and to plant
the mains at a speed above
the full-stall by a bit. This seems to keep your aileron control good and
decelerates you fast enough
(at least on grass with wire wheels) so that you don't balloon less you
yank the stick in your lap too quickly
as Edwin pointed out.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
My panel!
walt
NX140DL
(north N.J.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Landings |
Edwin Johnson and others,
Your findings regarding Pietenpol landing characteristics are in
agreement with my own experience flying four different ones. All
four had the split axle landing gear with either 6.00-6, 7.00-6 or
8.00-4 tires. I've been flying one of them (my own machine) for
about 725 hours.
In general, all were/are easy to fly and land, so I'll confine my ob-
servations to my airplane. In calm air or in light, steady breezes
three point landings are easily accomplished. Gusty conditions
change the picture and the ground becomes "a moving target",
requiring (as you put it) "a lot of vigilance (read work)". Under
these conditions I much prefer wheel landings because they are
easier to accomplish with some degree of precision and the view
ahead is better.
With all four Pietenpols, wheel landings came naturally---perhaps
because the main wheels are not placed too far ahead of the CG---
a feature not necessarily present with other types. I usually use a
bit of power until the wheels touch, and then close the throttle while
holding the tail off until it begins to fall. Then (as you do) I bring the
stick right back and keep it there for effective tailwheel steering
during the rollout. Approaches at 60 - 65 mph IAS work OK. But
if it is really wild, I'll come in a bit faster because the ground speed
isn't high and little distance is required to get it down and stopped
when landing into a strong wind---even with the wheel landing.
My Piet also stalls at about 38 mph IAS, power off. It is pure delight
to fly in smooth air, but it is difficult to maintain any finesse in tur-
bulence---although the a/c is always controllable.
Regarding your question about wheel landings with the straight axle
landing gear, I have a full scale Sperry Messenger Biplane my stu-
dents and I built back in the 1980's. It is powered by a Continental
A 65 engine and flies much like the Pietenpol. It is perhaps the
easiest airplane to wheel land I have encountered and I almost al-
ways "wheel it on". So the straight axle gear on a Pietenpol should
pose no problems with wheel landings.
Cheers,
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
never mind- it didn't work!
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: my panel
>
> My panel!
> walt
> NX140DL
> (north N.J.)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Green <rog(at)libby.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib verticals |
Leon,
Thanks for your reply. I am going to do as you suggeseted and just put
the two inside verticles on. On your project, it seems to me that you
don't have to cut out all of those verticles. If you're going to add 1/8"
ply wood spacers and if the 3/4" spar is strong enough (and it seems like a
lot are flying, so it is), you don't need a continues strip, just add a 1"
long piece, on both sides at each rib. That way you can slip them all on,
get them nearto position, glue on the 1/8" ply and the slip the rib into it
home position. Just my though - I know I'd hate to start cutting up my
hard work!
Random ROG
NX899RG (Yet to be)
>
>
Roger Green, 209 Luscher Drive, Libby, MT 59923
E-Mail: rog(at)libby.org Phone: (406) 293-2682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Green <rog(at)libby.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Graphlite Laminated Spar |
Cliff,
The file you pointed us to is a ".cps" file. What program should I used to
open it?
Random ROG
NX899RG (Yet to be)
Roger Green, 209 Luscher Drive, Libby, MT 59923
E-Mail: rog(at)libby.org Phone: (406) 293-2682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Graphlite Laminated Spar |
Forget that silly thing, I have no idea so
I photographed it and put it into my
photo album. It's a little fuzzy from being
shot so close but I think you'll be able to
work it out along with the long winded
dissertation that goes with it.
If not, you know where I am.
When I look at it myself I find it hard to
believe those tiny little rods could carry
such a load, but then I think of the Fokker
Tripe. No one wanted to fly it because
they couldn't believe the original wing struts
could possibly work so mr. F had to
make them bigger just to passify the
pilots. Or maybe it was the Sopwith.
One of them anyway.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Green" <rog(at)libby.org>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Graphlite Laminated Spar
>
> Cliff,
>
> The file you pointed us to is a ".cps" file. What program should I used
to
> open it?
>
> Random ROG
> NX899RG (Yet to be)
> Roger Green, 209 Luscher Drive, Libby, MT 59923
> E-Mail: rog(at)libby.org Phone: (406) 293-2682
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Graphlite Laminated Spar |
I have an old hunting bow, Browning, I think.
These things were laminated from maple and
fibreglass, very strong and withstood considerable
stress over hundreds of shots. It would require
a lot of experimenting to get the right tension
though.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Green" <rog(at)libby.org>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Graphlite Laminated Spar
>
> Matt,
>
> Graphlite Laminated Spar - I don't know about spars. That is I have no
> experience with this material. I have been wondering if it or carbon
fiber
> could be used to make a very light tailwheel mount. The thought of saving
> a pound of two that far back intrigues me. Any one care to comment?
>
>
> ROG
> NX899RG (Yet to be)
> Roger Green, 209 Luscher Drive, Libby, MT 59923
> E-Mail: rog(at)libby.org Phone: (406) 293-2682
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Sperry Messenger |
Grahm H. Where can one find plans for the Sperry Messenger? Leon S. Do
not archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
I think the builder's manual says to put 1/8 plywood shims at the ribs like
that. I had read it several times before I understood the comment, but I'm
pretty sure it's buried down in the middle somewhere.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Green [mailto:rog(at)libby.org]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib verticals
Leon,
Thanks for your reply. I am going to do as you suggeseted and just put
the two inside verticles on. On your project, it seems to me that you
don't have to cut out all of those verticles. If you're going to add 1/8"
ply wood spacers and if the 3/4" spar is strong enough (and it seems like a
lot are flying, so it is), you don't need a continues strip, just add a 1"
long piece, on both sides at each rib. That way you can slip them all on,
get them nearto position, glue on the 1/8" ply and the slip the rib into it
home position. Just my though - I know I'd hate to start cutting up my
hard work!
Random ROG
NX899RG (Yet to be)
>
>
Roger Green, 209 Luscher Drive, Libby, MT 59923
E-Mail: rog(at)libby.org Phone: (406) 293-2682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | GN-1 John Grega address? |
I'll be damned if I can find John Grega's contact info. Someone was asking
me for his address so he could possibly purchase a set of GN-1 plans.
Anyone got John's info handy??
sheeesh .... for all I know he could have taken the big leap to the
otherside... when I last spoke with him he was 83 yrs old I believe.
DJ Vegh
www.raptoronline.com
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 John Grega address? |
I have John Grega's address from when I started my Piet three years ago
It should still be the same I would think.
355 Grand Blvd.
Bedford OH 44146
( 440) 232-5790
>From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 John Grega address?
>Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:07:01 -0700
>
>
>I'll be damned if I can find John Grega's contact info. Someone was asking
>me for his address so he could possibly purchase a set of GN-1 plans.
>
>Anyone got John's info handy??
>
>sheeesh .... for all I know he could have taken the big leap to the
>otherside... when I last spoke with him he was 83 yrs old I believe.
>
>DJ Vegh
>www.raptoronline.com
>
>
>This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
>Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
>information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
><http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"Fishnet"
| Subject: | Whats a good all around cleaner for polyfiber? |
Now that the plane is "done" and time to fly, what can I use on Poly Fiber? Windex,
Amourall,car wax, simply green, pledge?????
What are you guys using?? You know , just to wipe everything down , like you are
going to a fly-in.
walt
NX140DL
(north N.J.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Whats a good all around cleaner for polyfiber? |
Walt,
The guys at PolyFiber advised me to use a polishing compound and then pure
carnauba wax. (NO silicone)
DickG.
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Whats a good all around cleaner for polyfiber?
>
> Now that the plane is "done" and time to fly, what can I use on Poly
Fiber? Windex, Amourall,car wax, simply green, pledge?????
> What are you guys using?? You know , just to wipe everything down , like
you are going to a fly-in.
> walt
> NX140DL
> (north N.J.)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Does anyone have insight into aluminum welding? I have done some TIG welding in
the past but I don't own one. In the Nov 2002 Sport Aviation Page 106, there
is an article on building fuel tanks and it refers to gas welding of tanks.
Also in the August 2002 issue of Custom Planes there is an article about Hydrogen
/ Oxy welding.
I went to a good sized welding supply house for info but no one had any experience
with gas welding on aluminum.
The big question - Does anyone have information about Oxy / aceteline welding?
I don't want to buy a Hydrogen tank, I would rather put the money into a TIG
unit with Argon
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
Dick,
A large percentage of all aluminum welding was done with a torch during WW
II. You will have to use hydrogen because it burns clean. You will also
need a good flux to do it right. During WW II several fluxes were developed
for this purpose. I now of only one resource, the guy is nick named the tin
man, I saw his both at sun & fun a few years ago. He runs a few adds in
Kitplanes, he also has some videos and books out too. I will try and look up
his adds, it real neat stuff that he does. I saw him weld and of course it
looked real easy, but he did it all with a torch. It looked better than any
tig weld I have seen.
Sorry I can't remember, but it does seem his company name started with TM
technologies or something.
I will look, or maybe someone else will know who I am talking about that
reads this.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
www.tinmantech.com.
----- Original Message -----
From: <ZigoDan(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
>
> Dick,
> A large percentage of all aluminum welding was done with a torch during WW
> II. You will have to use hydrogen because it burns clean. You will also
> need a good flux to do it right. During WW II several fluxes were
developed
> for this purpose. I now of only one resource, the guy is nick named the
tin
> man, I saw his both at sun & fun a few years ago. He runs a few adds in
> Kitplanes, he also has some videos and books out too. I will try and look
up
> his adds, it real neat stuff that he does. I saw him weld and of course
it
> looked real easy, but he did it all with a torch. It looked better than
any
> tig weld I have seen.
> Sorry I can't remember, but it does seem his company name started with TM
> technologies or something.
> I will look, or maybe someone else will know who I am talking about that
> reads this.
>
> Dan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aluminum Welding |
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
Dick N,
Check out Kent White's web site, www.tinmantech.com . Information on the
site seems to indicate that acetylene is a proper fuel for welding
aluminum and even has some advantages over hydrogen.
Dick H.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Dick,
As others have said, check out Ket White's Tin Man site. His welding system
can be found at
http://www.tinmantech.com/html/aluminum_gas_welding_system.html.
I bought his video, bought some flux (not from him) and tried my hand at
welding some 5052. It is nowhere near as easy as he makes it look. Unlike
steel which begins to glow first dull red then bright red then yellow then
white then begins to glisten and look "wet" before it melts, aluminum just
sits there sucking up heat from your torch until it nears its melting point
and then "presto!" it's GONE. There is no color change or any visual cue
that it is about to melt. As it nears the melting point, it loses all
strength and the weight of the weld puddle is sufficient to cause the
surrounding metal to fail and the whole puddle just drops right through the
metal.
I gave up and took my fuel tank across the road to a neighbor who has a nice
TIG rig and he welded my fuel tank for me. I did manage to do a litle
welding of the aluminum tubes in my pitot-static system.
My advice would be to use the entire system Kent White produces, and
practice a lot before welding something critical. You can get all the extra
equipment you need for far less than the cost of a TIG rig. I would have
done that if I didn't have TIG available so close by (and for free).
Good luck,
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Navratril
Subject: Pietenpol-List: welding
Does anyone have insight into aluminum welding? I have done some TIG
welding in the past but I don't own one. In the Nov 2002 Sport Aviation
Page 106, there is an article on building fuel tanks and it refers to gas
welding of tanks. Also in the August 2002 issue of Custom Planes there is
an article about Hydrogen / Oxy welding.
I went to a good sized welding supply house for info but no one had any
experience with gas welding on aluminum.
The big question - Does anyone have information about Oxy / aceteline
welding? I don't want to buy a Hydrogen tank, I would rather put the money
into a TIG unit with Argon
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Landings |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Landings
<grhans@cable-lynx.net>
++++++++++++++++++++
Graham,
Just read about your experience with the Piet landing characteristics and
would like to add my experience to yours.
My Piet has only about 20 hours on it, it is powered with a turbocharged
Subaru engine of about 115 hp. I fly from an airport that is 7946' high and
the prop is a special wide blade 52 pitch x 80 diameter designed by Duane
Woolsey that I made. The gross weight is about 1075 lbs during this test
phase. So you can see that the combination of elevation, horsepower, and
prop change or accentuate the Pietenpol landing characteristics somewhat.
My approach is quite steep without power so as to maintain about 70
indicated due to the elevation and the high drag combination of the airframe
and prop. The flare has to be timed just right because of the high drag and
almost as soon as the plane is flared, it sinks fast and there is
practically no float at all, especially if you let the airspeed drop below
70 on the approach. The landing itself is usually a tail low wheel landing.
Because of the high thrust of the prop/engine combination, if power is added
to mitigate a bounce, it usually results in too much thrust and simply makes
the next bounce even worse! It's just better to go around again.
The up side to all of this is that the plane at this altitude comes off the
ground in less than 500 feet and has a rate of climb exceeding 1100 fpm at
10,000 feet!
John
++++++++++++++++
>
> Edwin Johnson and others,
>
> Your findings regarding Pietenpol landing characteristics are in
> agreement with my own experience flying four different ones. All
> four had the split axle landing gear with either 6.00-6, 7.00-6 or
> 8.00-4 tires. I've been flying one of them (my own machine) for
> about 725 hours.
>
> In general, all were/are easy to fly and land, so I'll confine my ob-
> servations to my airplane. In calm air or in light, steady breezes
> three point landings are easily accomplished. Gusty conditions
> change the picture and the ground becomes "a moving target",
> requiring (as you put it) "a lot of vigilance (read work)". Under
> these conditions I much prefer wheel landings because they are
> easier to accomplish with some degree of precision and the view
> ahead is better.
>
> With all four Pietenpols, wheel landings came naturally---perhaps
> because the main wheels are not placed too far ahead of the CG---
> a feature not necessarily present with other types. I usually use a
> bit of power until the wheels touch, and then close the throttle while
> holding the tail off until it begins to fall. Then (as you do) I bring the
> stick right back and keep it there for effective tailwheel steering
> during the rollout. Approaches at 60 - 65 mph IAS work OK. But
> if it is really wild, I'll come in a bit faster because the ground speed
> isn't high and little distance is required to get it down and stopped
> when landing into a strong wind---even with the wheel landing.
>
> My Piet also stalls at about 38 mph IAS, power off. It is pure delight
> to fly in smooth air, but it is difficult to maintain any finesse in tur-
> bulence---although the a/c is always controllable.
>
> Regarding your question about wheel landings with the straight axle
> landing gear, I have a full scale Sperry Messenger Biplane my stu-
> dents and I built back in the 1980's. It is powered by a Continental
> A 65 engine and flies much like the Pietenpol. It is perhaps the
> easiest airplane to wheel land I have encountered and I almost al-
> ways "wheel it on". So the straight axle gear on a Pietenpol should
> pose no problems with wheel landings.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Listers,
What is the general concensus of prop diameter, pitch and blade
width/depth of a 110hp Corvair powered Piet?
Cheers
Peter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen5819(at)adelphia.net> |
Among other comments, Jack Phillips wrote:
> I bought his video, bought some flux (not from him) and tried my hand at
> welding some 5052. It is nowhere near as easy as he makes it look.
Unlike
> steel which begins to glow first dull red then bright red then yellow then
> white then begins to glisten and look "wet" before it melts, aluminum just
> sits there sucking up heat from your torch until it nears its melting
point
> and then "presto!" it's GONE. There is no color change or any visual cue
> that it is about to melt.
My aluminum welding is limited to a little practice in aviation-oriented
welding classes, so take this for what it's worth:
Teachers claim that you can recognize when the puddle forms by a
slightly "wet" appearence, but I've never been able to see it myself.
Instead, I've managed to do some okay welds by just poking the
surface with the end of the welding rod, being sure not to leave the
rod in long enough to melt the end off. When it penetrates the
surface, start moving the torch and rod to lay down the bead.
You'll have to move a good deal faster than with steel to avoid
having the puddle fall through, but you can get the timing down
with a little practice.
For something like a fuel tank, design can help. If you flange the
end panels outward, so that the joint has two layers of metal
facing the torch, you can melt them down to form a bead with
less risk of disaster.
Kent White offers videos about all sorts of metalworking.
I believe they include some on welding aluminum. I have not
seen them, but his videos have a good reputation--amateurish
production values, but lots of info.
Now if only I could get far enough along in a project to
have some use for them myself.
Good luck.
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne Meier <mwmp(at)earthlink.net> |
"pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com"
| Subject: | Aluminum welding |
RE: welding aluminum with gas
Dick,
Check out www.tinmantech.com It is a site ( and company) that belongs
to Kent White. He is a magician with aluminum. He has the fluxes,
rod and special lenses used in welding aluminum with oxy-acet. You
may have seen him at Oshkosh. He had a tent of his own near the
homebuilders forums and was going through the actual building of a fuel
tank when I saw him. He also has videos on the topic. Great Stuff
Cheers
Wayne M.
Midwest Marine Plywood
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
Peter,
RPM governs diameter, and max cruise governs pitch.
I'm assuming 2800 RPM and 80 MPH cruise.
Using those numbers it comes out to 68X28 or 66X29.
It will be a while before I start carving, so I haven't got to the point of
figuring the width/depth part yet.
Skip
What is the general concensus of prop diameter, pitch and blade
width/depth of a 110hp Corvair powered Piet?
Cheers
Peter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Allen <overalles45(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | I may be crazy!!!! |
Hi Piet Builders:
I am thinking of building a project, I have a fuselage
that measures 30" at the front, 37" behind the seat (2
person side by side) is 13.5 long same length as
tubing Piet fuselage in 1933 glider manual. And I have
a 1600 cc Ford Engine that produces 100 HP and weighs
234lbs dry, very comparable to A Ford in dimensions,
weight and mounting to fuselage. I am using a cub type
gear and setting it the same as a standard 1930's
Pietenpol.
My Dilema, if I put this together:
1. I want to use the Pietenpol Wooden Tailgroup
2. I want to use the 3 peice parasol wing, do I widen
the center section, leave it the same or what?
3. How am I going to figure out where to set the wing
position, because on my first project kind of part
Piet and part GN1 I had to move the wing to get CG
correct?
4. my fuselage tapers from the front to the back where
as the pietenpol is square, what kind of problems am I
going to run into,generally speaking.
Thanks for any comments, I know this won't be a true
piet, but I think it might be fun to build.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Whats a good all around cleaner for polyfiber? |
Lemon Pledge.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Whats a good all around cleaner for polyfiber?
>
> Now that the plane is "done" and time to fly, what can I use on Poly
Fiber? Windex, Amourall,car wax, simply green, pledge?????
> What are you guys using?? You know , just to wipe everything down , like
you are going to a fly-in.
> walt
> NX140DL
> (north N.J.)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Propellor Sizes |
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
Hi Peter
Bernard used a 63 X 35 prop on his first corvair powered plane
The blades were about 6' wide.
If you are going to carve a prop for the vair I have a book with plans
for a vair prop.
I can get you a copy for about 15 $ + shipping
Dale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"Fishnet"
| Subject: | My Piet flying pics |
Check it out
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/joepiet/lst?&.dir/&.srcph&.begin1&.viewl&.order&.donehttp%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/joepiet/lst%3f%26.dir/%26.srcph%26.viewl
look for the 141 series in the pics on top.
walt
NX140DL
(north N.J.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017(at)insightbb.com> |
Richard,
I have been practiceing welding aluminum with an acetelene torch. The
advice others have given about contacting the Tin Man and edge welding seem
to be good advice. I have not gotten to the point that I would weld a fuel
tank yet but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I use a plain old
Harris torch and Froney Alumaflux that I got at the local farm supply store.
I wire brush the aluminum with a stainless steel brush (sandpaper probably
would work) heat the rod and dip it in the flux and when I heat the aluminum
I bring the rod near and melt the flux on to the aluminum. The tapping with
the rod to see if the aluminum is melting helps, it goes fast and is not
easy but I can see myself getting better every time I try.
Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: welding
>
> Does anyone have insight into aluminum welding? I have done some TIG
welding in the past but I don't own one. In the Nov 2002 Sport Aviation
Page 106, there is an article on building fuel tanks and it refers to gas
welding of tanks. Also in the August 2002 issue of Custom Planes there is
an article about Hydrogen / Oxy welding.
> I went to a good sized welding supply house for info but no one had any
experience with gas welding on aluminum.
> The big question - Does anyone have information about Oxy / aceteline
welding? I don't want to buy a Hydrogen tank, I would rather put the money
into a TIG unit with Argon
>
> Dick N.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Landings |
John,
That is exactly how I have to land my GN-1 without power at sea level. You
"aim" at the ground and keep the speed at 65 or above. Then, about 6 inches
off the ground you flare quickly and there you are rolling along on all
three wheels and you didn't even feel the ground. A little power on the
final approach gives a more traditional flare but uses up runway. Keep up
the good flying.
Ted Brousseau
Naples, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Landings
> My approach is quite steep without power so as to maintain about 70
> indicated due to the elevation and the high drag combination of the
airframe
> and prop. The flare has to be timed just right because of the high drag
and
> almost as soon as the plane is flared, it sinks fast and there is
> practically no float at all, especially if you let the airspeed drop below
> 70 on the approach. The landing itself is usually a tail low wheel
landing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Wilcox" <craigwilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I may be crazy!!!! |
Walt - if that 1600 cc Ford is the cross-flow (intake on one side, exhaust
on the other), it is the same as used in the Formula Ford race cars.
Blueprinted and dry sumped, it produces 112-115 HP, but at 6.500 rpm.
You'll need to reduce that by at least 50% for prop speed. BTW, with the
Cosworth head (16V, DOHC) and a pair of dual-throat Webers, you can get
about 250 HP at 10,500 rpm - just need a bit more work on the bottom end.
Great engines, very reliable.
On the other things - the Piet tapers also, so no problem there. You may
need to enlarge the c/s proportionately, to keep the cabane struts at a
decent angle to allow entry/exit.
As always, you will need to do a weight and balance to figure where the wing
goes. You can do it very close by doing a W/B on the fuselage without the
wing, and do the wing separately. Simple math will then tell you how to
combine the two to get the CG at the proper 28-32% chord.
Good luck with this project, and keep us posted!
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Allen <overalles45(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: I may be crazy!!!!
>
> Hi Piet Builders:
>
> I am thinking of building a project, I have a fuselage
> that measures 30" at the front, 37" behind the seat (2
> person side by side) is 13.5 long same length as
> tubing Piet fuselage in 1933 glider manual. And I have
> a 1600 cc Ford Engine that produces 100 HP and weighs
> 234lbs dry, very comparable to A Ford in dimensions,
> weight and mounting to fuselage. I am using a cub type
> gear and setting it the same as a standard 1930's
> Pietenpol.
>
> My Dilema, if I put this together:
> 1. I want to use the Pietenpol Wooden Tailgroup
> 2. I want to use the 3 peice parasol wing, do I widen
> the center section, leave it the same or what?
> 3. How am I going to figure out where to set the wing
> position, because on my first project kind of part
> Piet and part GN1 I had to move the wing to get CG
> correct?
> 4. my fuselage tapers from the front to the back where
> as the pietenpol is square, what kind of problems am I
> going to run into,generally speaking.
>
> Thanks for any comments, I know this won't be a true
> piet, but I think it might be fun to build.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Landings |
John,
I'm amazed you are operating from an airport nearly 8000 " asl
with a Pietenpol. You must be the loftiest Piet driver around. We
are at about 2400 ' asl here in central Alberta, Canada. I have a
Continental C 85 engine and a 72" dia. x 43" pitch custom wood
propeller made by Colin Walker (in British Columbia). It's a good
combination, but I'd hate to have to operate from your airport!
You are right about power-off approaches being steep with little
floating after the flare. It is sound practice to approach on the fast
side with these draggy airplanes because the excess speed is
dissipated in a hurry. When loaded, my Piet doesn't float very far
before it settles into a three-point landing. This is why I normally
use a touch of power when loaded to flatten the approach and
ease it onto the ground, with either three-point or wheel landings.
Power-off, one can almost dive at the spot on the runway where
he wishes to touch down.
I have just read the note from Ted saying his GN-1 acts the same
as your Pietenpol---even at sea level. I'm between the two of you
regarding elevation and all four different Piets I have flown behaved
the same way.
Graham Hansen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
Peter,
I want to recommend this book. Dale is doing us a great service by providing
this book. It is great if you want to carve a prop or just want to learn
more about how props work.
Also the prop carving book by Eric Clutton, from the EAA book store for
about $10.00 is a good resource.
Skip
If you are going to carve a prop for the vair I have a book with plans
for a vair prop.
I can get you a copy for about 15 $ + shipping
Dale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Allen <overalles45(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I may be crazy!!!! |
Craig:
This motor has been converted for aircraft use and has
a standard bendix/slick? prop reduction unit that is
2.5 to 1. this hub takes a standard prop. Thanks for
replying I think I will go ahead and try this project.
Thanks
Walter
--- Jeffrey Wilcox wrote:
> Wilcox"
>
> Walt - if that 1600 cc Ford is the cross-flow
> (intake on one side, exhaust
> on the other), it is the same as used in the Formula
> Ford race cars.
> Blueprinted and dry sumped, it produces 112-115 HP,
> but at 6.500 rpm.
> You'll need to reduce that by at least 50% for prop
> speed. BTW, with the
> Cosworth head (16V, DOHC) and a pair of dual-throat
> Webers, you can get
> about 250 HP at 10,500 rpm - just need a bit more
> work on the bottom end.
> Great engines, very reliable.
>
> On the other things - the Piet tapers also, so no
> problem there. You may
> need to enlarge the c/s proportionately, to keep the
> cabane struts at a
> decent angle to allow entry/exit.
> As always, you will need to do a weight and balance
> to figure where the wing
> goes. You can do it very close by doing a W/B on
> the fuselage without the
> wing, and do the wing separately. Simple math will
> then tell you how to
> combine the two to get the CG at the proper 28-32%
> chord.
>
> Good luck with this project, and keep us posted!
>
> Craig
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Walter Allen <overalles45(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: I may be crazy!!!!
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi Piet Builders:
> >
> > I am thinking of building a project, I have a
> fuselage
> > that measures 30" at the front, 37" behind the
> seat (2
> > person side by side) is 13.5 long same length as
> > tubing Piet fuselage in 1933 glider manual. And I
> have
> > a 1600 cc Ford Engine that produces 100 HP and
> weighs
> > 234lbs dry, very comparable to A Ford in
> dimensions,
> > weight and mounting to fuselage. I am using a cub
> type
> > gear and setting it the same as a standard 1930's
> > Pietenpol.
> >
> > My Dilema, if I put this together:
> > 1. I want to use the Pietenpol Wooden Tailgroup
> > 2. I want to use the 3 peice parasol wing, do I
> widen
> > the center section, leave it the same or what?
> > 3. How am I going to figure out where to set the
> wing
> > position, because on my first project kind of part
> > Piet and part GN1 I had to move the wing to get CG
> > correct?
> > 4. my fuselage tapers from the front to the back
> where
> > as the pietenpol is square, what kind of problems
> am I
> > going to run into,generally speaking.
> >
> > Thanks for any comments, I know this won't be a
> true
> > piet, but I think it might be fun to build.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Month --
> Gifts!)
> Click on the Contribution
> Terrific Free Gifts!
> Dralle, List Admin.
> _->
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I may be crazy!!!! |
Walter:
Do you have some photos on the net? I will like to see how this
engine conversion looks...
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Walter Allen wrote:
>
>
> Craig:
> This motor has been converted for aircraft use and has
> a standard bendix/slick? prop reduction unit that is
> 2.5 to 1. this hub takes a standard prop. Thanks for
> replying I think I will go ahead and try this project.
>
> Thanks
> Walter
> --- Jeffrey Wilcox wrote:
> > Wilcox"
> >
> > Walt - if that 1600 cc Ford is the cross-flow
> > (intake on one side, exhaust
> > on the other), it is the same as used in the Formula
> > Ford race cars.
> > Blueprinted and dry sumped, it produces 112-115 HP,
> > but at 6.500 rpm.
> > You'll need to reduce that by at least 50% for prop
> > speed. BTW, with the
> > Cosworth head (16V, DOHC) and a pair of dual-throat
> > Webers, you can get
> > about 250 HP at 10,500 rpm - just need a bit more
> > work on the bottom end.
> > Great engines, very reliable.
> >
> > On the other things - the Piet tapers also, so no
> > problem there. You may
> > need to enlarge the c/s proportionately, to keep the
> > cabane struts at a
> > decent angle to allow entry/exit.
> > As always, you will need to do a weight and balance
> > to figure where the wing
> > goes. You can do it very close by doing a W/B on
> > the fuselage without the
> > wing, and do the wing separately. Simple math will
> > then tell you how to
> > combine the two to get the CG at the proper 28-32%
> > chord.
> >
> > Good luck with this project, and keep us posted!
> >
> > Craig
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Walter Allen <overalles45(at)yahoo.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: I may be crazy!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Hi Piet Builders:
> > >
> > > I am thinking of building a project, I have a
> > fuselage
> > > that measures 30" at the front, 37" behind the
> > seat (2
> > > person side by side) is 13.5 long same length as
> > > tubing Piet fuselage in 1933 glider manual. And I
> > have
> > > a 1600 cc Ford Engine that produces 100 HP and
> > weighs
> > > 234lbs dry, very comparable to A Ford in
> > dimensions,
> > > weight and mounting to fuselage. I am using a cub
> > type
> > > gear and setting it the same as a standard 1930's
> > > Pietenpol.
> > >
> > > My Dilema, if I put this together:
> > > 1. I want to use the Pietenpol Wooden Tailgroup
> > > 2. I want to use the 3 peice parasol wing, do I
> > widen
> > > the center section, leave it the same or what?
> > > 3. How am I going to figure out where to set the
> > wing
> > > position, because on my first project kind of part
> > > Piet and part GN1 I had to move the wing to get CG
> > > correct?
> > > 4. my fuselage tapers from the front to the back
> > where
> > > as the pietenpol is square, what kind of problems
> > am I
> > > going to run into,generally speaking.
> > >
> > > Thanks for any comments, I know this won't be a
> > true
> > > piet, but I think it might be fun to build.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Month --
> > Gifts!)
> > Click on the Contribution
> > Terrific Free Gifts!
> > Dralle, List Admin.
> > _->
> > Forum -
> > Contributions of
> > any other form
> >
> > latest messages.
> > other List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/search
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Contribution
> Gifts!
> _->
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Allen <overalles45(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I may be crazy!!!! |
Gary:
Where and how do I post pictures, I am pretty new
(dumb) at this.
thanks
Walter
--- Gary Gower wrote:
>
>
> Walter:
>
> Do you have some photos on the net? I will like to
> see how this
> engine conversion looks...
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
>
>
> --- Walter Allen wrote:
> >
> >
> > Craig:
> > This motor has been converted for aircraft use and
> has
> > a standard bendix/slick? prop reduction unit that
> is
> > 2.5 to 1. this hub takes a standard prop. Thanks
> for
> > replying I think I will go ahead and try this
> project.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Walter
> > --- Jeffrey Wilcox
> wrote:
> > > Wilcox"
> > >
> > > Walt - if that 1600 cc Ford is the cross-flow
> > > (intake on one side, exhaust
> > > on the other), it is the same as used in the
> Formula
> > > Ford race cars.
> > > Blueprinted and dry sumped, it produces 112-115
> HP,
> > > but at 6.500 rpm.
> > > You'll need to reduce that by at least 50% for
> prop
> > > speed. BTW, with the
> > > Cosworth head (16V, DOHC) and a pair of
> dual-throat
> > > Webers, you can get
> > > about 250 HP at 10,500 rpm - just need a bit
> more
> > > work on the bottom end.
> > > Great engines, very reliable.
> > >
> > > On the other things - the Piet tapers also, so
> no
> > > problem there. You may
> > > need to enlarge the c/s proportionately, to keep
> the
> > > cabane struts at a
> > > decent angle to allow entry/exit.
> > > As always, you will need to do a weight and
> balance
> > > to figure where the wing
> > > goes. You can do it very close by doing a W/B
> on
> > > the fuselage without the
> > > wing, and do the wing separately. Simple math
> will
> > > then tell you how to
> > > combine the two to get the CG at the proper
> 28-32%
> > > chord.
> > >
> > > Good luck with this project, and keep us posted!
> > >
> > > Craig
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Walter Allen <overalles45(at)yahoo.com>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: I may be crazy!!!!
> > >
> > >
> Allen
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Piet Builders:
> > > >
> > > > I am thinking of building a project, I have a
> > > fuselage
> > > > that measures 30" at the front, 37" behind the
> > > seat (2
> > > > person side by side) is 13.5 long same length
> as
> > > > tubing Piet fuselage in 1933 glider manual.
> And I
> > > have
> > > > a 1600 cc Ford Engine that produces 100 HP and
> > > weighs
> > > > 234lbs dry, very comparable to A Ford in
> > > dimensions,
> > > > weight and mounting to fuselage. I am using a
> cub
> > > type
> > > > gear and setting it the same as a standard
> 1930's
> > > > Pietenpol.
> > > >
> > > > My Dilema, if I put this together:
> > > > 1. I want to use the Pietenpol Wooden
> Tailgroup
> > > > 2. I want to use the 3 peice parasol wing, do
> I
> > > widen
> > > > the center section, leave it the same or what?
> > > > 3. How am I going to figure out where to set
> the
> > > wing
> > > > position, because on my first project kind of
> part
> > > > Piet and part GN1 I had to move the wing to
> get CG
> > > > correct?
> > > > 4. my fuselage tapers from the front to the
> back
> > > where
> > > > as the pietenpol is square, what kind of
> problems
> > > am I
> > > > going to run into,generally speaking.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for any comments, I know this won't be
> a
> > > true
> > > > piet, but I think it might be fun to build.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Month --
> > > Gifts!)
> > > Click on the Contribution
> > > Terrific Free Gifts!
> > > Dralle, List Admin.
> > > _->
> > > Forum -
> > > Contributions of
> > > any other form
> > >
> > > latest messages.
> > > other List members.
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > > http://www.matronics.com/search
> > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Contribution
> > Gifts!
> > _->
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Month --
> Gifts!)
> Click on the Contribution
> Terrific Free Gifts!
> Dralle, List Admin.
> _->
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any
=== message truncated ===
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
Do a google search for Kent White's TM Tecnologies website for info on
aluminum gas welding.
Chris Bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
Navratril
Subject: Pietenpol-List: welding
Does anyone have insight into aluminum welding? I have done some TIG
welding in the past but I don't own one. In the Nov 2002 Sport Aviation
Page 106, there is an article on building fuel tanks and it refers to gas
welding of tanks. Also in the August 2002 issue of Custom Planes there is
an article about Hydrogen / Oxy welding.
I went to a good sized welding supply house for info but no one had any
experience with gas welding on aluminum.
The big question - Does anyone have information about Oxy / aceteline
welding? I don't want to buy a Hydrogen tank, I would rather put the money
into a TIG unit with Argon
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine conversion. |
Walter:
One easy way is to post them in the list's photo share, just click on
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
(normally is in the bottom of all the messages)
and send them to the e-mail address showed, Mr. Dralle, the List
Admisnistrator will post them to all of us.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Walter Allen wrote:
>
>
> Gary:
>
> Where and how do I post pictures, I am pretty new
> (dumb) at this.
>
> thanks
> Walter
> --- Gary Gower wrote:
> >
> >
> > Walter:
> >
> > Do you have some photos on the net? I will like to
> > see how this
> > engine conversion looks...
> >
> > Saludos
> > Gary Gower
> >
> >
> > --- Walter Allen wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Craig:
> > > This motor has been converted for aircraft use and
> > has
> > > a standard bendix/slick? prop reduction unit that
> > is
> > > 2.5 to 1. this hub takes a standard prop. Thanks
> > for
> > > replying I think I will go ahead and try this
> > project.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Walter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Landings |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Landings
<grhans@cable-lynx.net>
++++++++++++++++++++++
Graham,
Don't be amazed that I fly a Pietenpol up here in the thin air, it was done
with some degree of forethought (and luck).
I wanted to be able to fly in and out of many of the small fields that we
have here in the RockyMountains and I couldn't afford a Super Cub. After
researching a whole bunch of possible airframes, it became apparent that a
Pietenpol would be suitable if it had a tubocharged engine with a slow
turning prop reduction unit along with a large wide blade prop.
I am still in the test phase, but so far the results are encouraging.
Remember, the engine, because of the turbo can produce sea level hp up here.
On take off the engine is producing 44 inches of manifold pressure. I
believe this equates to about 115 hp. The acceleration is such that one can
use forward pressure on the stick to pick the tail up at the same time
throttle is advanced. After just a couple of seconds on the main gear the
airspeed is already up to 50 or 55 mph, then pull back on the stick and as
the nose comes up it has already accelerated to 65-70 mph. The whole
sequence is just one smooth movement. Best angle of climb is 65 indicated.
Although the engine is turning 4800, the prop is only turning 2042 rpm
At 10,000 foot cruise, the indicated airspeed is 70 mph and this results in
a true airspeed of 82 mph. Manifold pressure can be dropped back to 26
inches and the prop rpm is only about 1750. Although I have not done an
accurate fuel consumption test yet, it does appear to be about 5 gph.
The plane will easily gain over 1200 feet at the end of our 8300 foot
runway. And of course as we discussed, the landing approach is steep and
the landing run is short.
When I get a little more confidence in the rig, I think I'll challenge my
friend with his normally aspirated 180 hp Super Cub ( only 136.8 horsepower
up here) to a short field landing and take off contest!
Pietenpols are more than just a pretty antique airplane!
John Dilatush NX114D (Mountain Piet)
Salida, Colorado
++++++++++++++++++++
> John,
>
> I'm amazed you are operating from an airport nearly 8000 " asl
> with a Pietenpol. You must be the loftiest Piet driver around. We
> are at about 2400 ' asl here in central Alberta, Canada. I have a
> Continental C 85 engine and a 72" dia. x 43" pitch custom wood
> propeller made by Colin Walker (in British Columbia). It's a good
> combination, but I'd hate to have to operate from your airport!
>
> You are right about power-off approaches being steep with little
> floating after the flare. It is sound practice to approach on the fast
> side with these draggy airplanes because the excess speed is
> dissipated in a hurry. When loaded, my Piet doesn't float very far
> before it settles into a three-point landing. This is why I normally
> use a touch of power when loaded to flatten the approach and
> ease it onto the ground, with either three-point or wheel landings.
> Power-off, one can almost dive at the spot on the runway where
> he wishes to touch down.
>
> I have just read the note from Ted saying his GN-1 acts the same
> as your Pietenpol---even at sea level. I'm between the two of you
> regarding elevation and all four different Piets I have flown behaved
> the same way.
>
> Graham Hansen
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Thanks all for the information about aluminum welding. The article in Sport Aviation
was written by Kent White. After absorbing the input from the group, I
think it's time to invest in a TIG welder. The old mind isnt capable of a new
skill right now with the cold setting in.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
Dick,
Just a thought. If you are not going to build several tanks, why don't you
just pay someone who builds them for a living. It would be a lot less work,
and money, when you consider TIG welders are not cheep.
I try to farm out as much as I can, I used to believe it was necessary to
build everything and this saved money. Now I know it cost just as much and
consumes valuable time. Don't get me wrong though, because if I had lot's of
money and time I would love to do all of it. But I also want to fly ASAP.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Yes, I see your point. I was not planning on buying a shinny new one. I go
to a lot of auctions and will be looking around. There is another
possibility though. I took a night class at a Vo/Tech in welding. They
have all kinds of nice equipment and the night instructors are very low key
but helpful.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: <ZigoDan(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
>
> Dick,
>
> Just a thought. If you are not going to build several tanks, why don't
you
> just pay someone who builds them for a living. It would be a lot less
work,
> and money, when you consider TIG welders are not cheep.
> I try to farm out as much as I can, I used to believe it was necessary to
> build everything and this saved money. Now I know it cost just as much
and
> consumes valuable time. Don't get me wrong though, because if I had lot's
of
> money and time I would love to do all of it. But I also want to fly ASAP.
>
> Dan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet flying pics |
Walt, Finally got to check out your piet pics. The plane turned out
beautiful. It looks great in the air.
I'm taking mine out to the airport Sunday morning ( nerves on edge about
that).
Looks like just in time to get snowed in the hanger.
BTW, how much taxi time did you have before the inspection?
Any other preinspection info you can give me that hasn't been posted would
be appreciated.
You can email me direct at skycarl(at)megsinet.net
Thanks,
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flying pics
>
> Check it out
>
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/joepiet/lst?&.dir/&.srcph&.begin1&.viewl&.order&.
donehttp%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/joepiet/lst%3f%26.dir/%26.srcph%26.viewl
> look for the 141 series in the pics on top.
> walt
> NX140DL
> (north N.J.)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Are you looking for a fuselage tank, or wing tank?
If you need a fuse tank I might can help.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | What wood are some of you using? |
I just wanted to see what some people are using?
Any ideas or comments welcome.
I have thought about using poplar.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: I may be crazy!!!! |
Sign up with www.mykitplane.com
You can upload your digital pics right
off your computer in seconds-real easy!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Allen" <overalles45(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I may be crazy!!!!
>
> Gary:
>
> Where and how do I post pictures, I am pretty new
> (dumb) at this.
>
> thanks
> Walter
> --- Gary Gower wrote:
> >
> >
> > Walter:
> >
> > Do you have some photos on the net? I will like to
> > see how this
> > engine conversion looks...
> >
> > Saludos
> > Gary Gower
> >
> >
> > --- Walter Allen wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Craig:
> > > This motor has been converted for aircraft use and
> > has
> > > a standard bendix/slick? prop reduction unit that
> > is
> > > 2.5 to 1. this hub takes a standard prop. Thanks
> > for
> > > replying I think I will go ahead and try this
> > project.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Walter
> > > --- Jeffrey Wilcox
> > wrote:
> > > > Wilcox"
> > > >
> > > > Walt - if that 1600 cc Ford is the cross-flow
> > > > (intake on one side, exhaust
> > > > on the other), it is the same as used in the
> > Formula
> > > > Ford race cars.
> > > > Blueprinted and dry sumped, it produces 112-115
> > HP,
> > > > but at 6.500 rpm.
> > > > You'll need to reduce that by at least 50% for
> > prop
> > > > speed. BTW, with the
> > > > Cosworth head (16V, DOHC) and a pair of
> > dual-throat
> > > > Webers, you can get
> > > > about 250 HP at 10,500 rpm - just need a bit
> > more
> > > > work on the bottom end.
> > > > Great engines, very reliable.
> > > >
> > > > On the other things - the Piet tapers also, so
> > no
> > > > problem there. You may
> > > > need to enlarge the c/s proportionately, to keep
> > the
> > > > cabane struts at a
> > > > decent angle to allow entry/exit.
> > > > As always, you will need to do a weight and
> > balance
> > > > to figure where the wing
> > > > goes. You can do it very close by doing a W/B
> > on
> > > > the fuselage without the
> > > > wing, and do the wing separately. Simple math
> > will
> > > > then tell you how to
> > > > combine the two to get the CG at the proper
> > 28-32%
> > > > chord.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck with this project, and keep us posted!
> > > >
> > > > Craig
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Walter Allen <overalles45(at)yahoo.com>
> > > > To:
> > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: I may be crazy!!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > Allen
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Piet Builders:
> > > > >
> > > > > I am thinking of building a project, I have a
> > > > fuselage
> > > > > that measures 30" at the front, 37" behind the
> > > > seat (2
> > > > > person side by side) is 13.5 long same length
> > as
> > > > > tubing Piet fuselage in 1933 glider manual.
> > And I
> > > > have
> > > > > a 1600 cc Ford Engine that produces 100 HP and
> > > > weighs
> > > > > 234lbs dry, very comparable to A Ford in
> > > > dimensions,
> > > > > weight and mounting to fuselage. I am using a
> > cub
> > > > type
> > > > > gear and setting it the same as a standard
> > 1930's
> > > > > Pietenpol.
> > > > >
> > > > > My Dilema, if I put this together:
> > > > > 1. I want to use the Pietenpol Wooden
> > Tailgroup
> > > > > 2. I want to use the 3 peice parasol wing, do
> > I
> > > > widen
> > > > > the center section, leave it the same or what?
> > > > > 3. How am I going to figure out where to set
> > the
> > > > wing
> > > > > position, because on my first project kind of
> > part
> > > > > Piet and part GN1 I had to move the wing to
> > get CG
> > > > > correct?
> > > > > 4. my fuselage tapers from the front to the
> > back
> > > > where
> > > > > as the pietenpol is square, what kind of
> > problems
> > > > am I
> > > > > going to run into,generally speaking.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for any comments, I know this won't be
> > a
> > > > true
> > > > > piet, but I think it might be fun to build.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Month --
> > > > Gifts!)
> > > > Click on the Contribution
> > > > Terrific Free Gifts!
> > > > Dralle, List Admin.
> > > > _->
> > > > Forum -
> > > > Contributions of
> > > > any other form
> > > >
> > > > latest messages.
> > > > other List members.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > > > http://www.matronics.com/search
> > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Contribution
> > > Gifts!
> > > _->
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Month --
> > Gifts!)
> > Click on the Contribution
> > Terrific Free Gifts!
> > Dralle, List Admin.
> > _->
> > Forum -
> > Contributions of
> > any
> === message truncated ===
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet flying pics |
Carl,
Thanks.
Speaking of snow, what state are you in?
Actually I had no taxi time on it. During the inspection I was informed
that one hour of engine time had to be logged as part of passing, so by the
time the inspector came back with all the paperwork and the final glance,
had the hour.
Put off getting my medical till a few days before the Airworthiness Cert.
came, and many had told me that if you taxi fast , you will be flying. so I
opted to wait for the piece of paper, till I ever moved it.
I wasn't disappointed!!
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flying pics
>
> Walt, Finally got to check out your piet pics. The plane turned out
> beautiful. It looks great in the air.
> I'm taking mine out to the airport Sunday morning ( nerves on edge about
> that).
> Looks like just in time to get snowed in the hanger.
> BTW, how much taxi time did you have before the inspection?
> Any other preinspection info you can give me that hasn't been posted would
> be appreciated.
> You can email me direct at skycarl(at)megsinet.net
> Thanks,
> Carl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To: "piet discussion" ; "Fishnet"
>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flying pics
>
>
>
> >
> > Check it out
> >
>
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/joepiet/lst?&.dir/&.srcph&.begin1&.viewl&.order&.
> donehttp%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/joepiet/lst%3f%26.dir/%26.srcph%26.viewl
> > look for the 141 series in the pics on top.
> > walt
> > NX140DL
> > (north N.J.)
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | LOC Coming Soon... |
Dear Listers,
This year's List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner. I'll be
posting the LOC on or about December 1. The List of Contributors is a
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generously made a Contribution to support the continued operation and
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Support your Lists today and make sure that your name is on the upcoming
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Oscar Zuniga ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Oscar Zuniga
Subject: Walt Evans' Piet panel
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/taildrags@hotmail.com.11.16.2002/index.html
--------------------------------------------
o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
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Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
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o Main Photo Share Index:
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--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Landings (and Takeoffs) |
John,
Your description of the takeoff phase could apply to my a/c, also.
I can shove the stick ahead as I open the throttle and the tail comes
up right away, the a/c accelerates quickly and soon becomes air-
borne. Like your airplane, its best climb rate speed is 65 mph IAS.
Normally, I don't go for the best R. of C., but climb at 70 mph IAS in-
stead. This yields almost as good a climb rate and the extra airspeed
is "money in the bank" with a draggy airplane, should the engine de-
cide to take the rest of the day off.
It is interesting how these two aircraft behave in a very similar fashion,
regardless of the altitude difference. And it would be interesting to hear
from other Pietenpol owners regarding landing and takeoff characteris-
tics.
Cheers,
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 11/15/02 |
In a message dated 11/15/02 11:54:38 PM, pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com
writes:
<< Subject: Pietenpol-List: What wood are some of you using?
I just wanted to see what some people are using?
Any ideas or comments welcome.
I have thought about using poplar.
>>
I started my Piet Feb. this year, and have completed the tail feathers and
almost finished the Fuse. Another week or two and will weigh this and post
the results on the Web. I'm using good Douglas Fir, VG, Kiln Dried and have
learned to like it. Fir (good Fir) is readily available at your local
lumberyard. You need to be able to pick your pieces. I'm using Basswood
Plywood throughout, because I've tested the joints and find the glue bonds
better than Birch/Fir. Maybe Birch/Spruce would be better?
My local hardwood store sells nice Basswood lumber, and I would certainly buy
some of this for non-satructural applications if I were to do the job over
again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Guys,
Thanks for the info. I have both E. Alvin Schubert's book and Eric
Clutton's book. I have uploaded a spreadsheet file to
http://www.mykitplane.com based on the calculations in Eric's book (see
Peter Johnson in my file folder). Seems 64 x 36 is about right. Based on
3100 rpm at 100mph with an 85HP motor. I was rather hoping some of the
owners of flying Piet's may have said what they were using. Practical
examples are always better than theoretical calculations.
Cheers
Peter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Prop Book |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Prop Book
+++++++++++++++++
Pete,
Based on my limited experience of only about 25 hours with Pietenpols, I
doubt if you will ever see 100 mph indicated cruise.
I would think that 65 or 70 indicated is more like it.
John
++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Thanks for the info. I have both E. Alvin Schubert's book and Eric
> Clutton's book. I have uploaded a spreadsheet file to
> http://www.mykitplane.com based on the calculations in Eric's book (see
> Peter Johnson in my file folder). Seems 64 x 36 is about right. Based on
> 3100 rpm at 100mph with an 85HP motor. I was rather hoping some of the
> owners of flying Piet's may have said what they were using. Practical
> examples are always better than theoretical calculations.
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Landings (and Takeoffs) |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Landings (and Takeoffs)
++++++++++Graham,
Because of a number of things added, such as electrical system, prop
reduction unit with steel sprockets, stock steel flywheel, brakes, etc. etc.
my Piet has come out at about 800 lbs empty weight with oil and coolant..
The only saving grace here is the extra hp.
My question is, what is the empty wt of your Pietenpol? I know that
builders seem to claim weights of only 600 to 650 lbs, but what do most
Piets really end up weighing?
Could this be similar to quoting car mileage?
Cordially,
John
+++++++++++++++++++
<grhans@cable-lynx.net>
>
> John,
>
> Your description of the takeoff phase could apply to my a/c, also.
>
> I can shove the stick ahead as I open the throttle and the tail comes
> up right away, the a/c accelerates quickly and soon becomes air-
> borne. Like your airplane, its best climb rate speed is 65 mph IAS.
> Normally, I don't go for the best R. of C., but climb at 70 mph IAS in-
> stead. This yields almost as good a climb rate and the extra airspeed
> is "money in the bank" with a draggy airplane, should the engine de-
> cide to take the rest of the day off.
>
> It is interesting how these two aircraft behave in a very similar fashion,
> regardless of the altitude difference. And it would be interesting to hear
> from other Pietenpol owners regarding landing and takeoff characteris-
> tics.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Graham
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Landings (and Takeoffs) |
John,
Just did my W&B few months ago, and got inspection few weeks ago. Built
only to plans with long fuse and A-65.
Weight is 595# empty.
Might account for the 650 fpm climb at about 60 IAS on climbout.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Landings (and Takeoffs)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Landings (and Takeoffs)
> ++++++++++Graham,
>
> Because of a number of things added, such as electrical system, prop
> reduction unit with steel sprockets, stock steel flywheel, brakes, etc.
etc.
> my Piet has come out at about 800 lbs empty weight with oil and coolant..
> The only saving grace here is the extra hp.
>
> My question is, what is the empty wt of your Pietenpol? I know that
> builders seem to claim weights of only 600 to 650 lbs, but what do most
> Piets really end up weighing?
>
> Could this be similar to quoting car mileage?
>
> Cordially,
>
> John
> +++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
> >
> > John,
> >
> > Your description of the takeoff phase could apply to my a/c, also.
> >
> > I can shove the stick ahead as I open the throttle and the tail comes
> > up right away, the a/c accelerates quickly and soon becomes air-
> > borne. Like your airplane, its best climb rate speed is 65 mph IAS.
> > Normally, I don't go for the best R. of C., but climb at 70 mph IAS in-
> > stead. This yields almost as good a climb rate and the extra airspeed
> > is "money in the bank" with a draggy airplane, should the engine de-
> > cide to take the rest of the day off.
> >
> > It is interesting how these two aircraft behave in a very similar
fashion,
> > regardless of the altitude difference. And it would be interesting to
hear
> > from other Pietenpol owners regarding landing and takeoff characteris-
> > tics.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Graham
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | corky, need "jist" of letter to congressman |
Corky,
all set to bombard my congressman with many letters on the sport pilot
thing. Where can I find a standard letter to base my letter on?
thanks,
walt evans
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: corky, need "jist" of letter to congressman |
Walt,
I would advise that you NOT use a standard letter as a congressional aide
once told me that if they receive those memo letters they usually send back
the standard reply and trash the requests, AND I BELIEVE HIM.
It would be much more effective if you were to take a few minutes with a pen
and write your lett, long hand and as brief as possible. Be sure and bring
out that this Sport Pilot issue is one which they can BRAG about as not
costing the tax payers or the government one red cent to put into effect. I
also brought out the position of small private aviation as becoming extinct.
Ask him how long has it been since he looked up on a week end and saw or
heard a Cub flying over. Try to make them think ( if that's possible).
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: corky, need "jist" of letter to congressman |
Corky,
That is just the "jist" that I need. You gave me some good ideas.
Now Where's my pen?
walt evans
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corky, need "jist" of letter to congressman
>
> Walt,
> I would advise that you NOT use a standard letter as a congressional aide
> once told me that if they receive those memo letters they usually send
back
> the standard reply and trash the requests, AND I BELIEVE HIM.
> It would be much more effective if you were to take a few minutes with a
pen
> and write your lett, long hand and as brief as possible. Be sure and bring
> out that this Sport Pilot issue is one which they can BRAG about as not
> costing the tax payers or the government one red cent to put into effect.
I
> also brought out the position of small private aviation as becoming
extinct.
> Ask him how long has it been since he looked up on a week end and saw or
> heard a Cub flying over. Try to make them think ( if that's possible).
> Corky in La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: corky, need "jist" of letter to congressman |
>
>
>Corky,
>That is just the "jist" that I need. You gave me some good ideas.
>Now Where's my pen?
>walt evans
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corky, need "jist" of letter to congressman
>
>
>>
>> Walt,
>> I would advise that you NOT use a standard letter as a congressional aide
>> once told me that if they receive those memo letters they usually send
>back
>> the standard reply and trash the requests, AND I BELIEVE HIM.
>> It would be much more effective if you were to take a few minutes with a
>pen
>> and write your lett, long hand and as brief as possible. Be sure and bring
>> out that this Sport Pilot issue is one which they can BRAG about as not
>> costing the tax payers or the government one red cent to put into effect.
>I
>> also brought out the position of small private aviation as becoming
>extinct.
>> Ask him how long has it been since he looked up on a week end and saw or
>> heard a Cub flying over. Try to make them think ( if that's possible).
>> Corky in La
Walt,
A belated congrats on your first flights!
Also, in your letter, remember to state SPECIFICALLY what it is you would
like your congressperson to do, namely, whatever they can to get the FAA to
expedite passage of the Sprt Pilot Rule in its current form.
Might also mention that this Rule will help keep small (taxpaying) airports
viable & in business by increasing General Aviation activity, thereby
boosting the economic health of their district, something else they like to
be able to brag about.
Corky is dead on about a personalized letter - form letters & e-mail get
attention only as 'poll fodder'. A friend of mine who worked for a
non-profit group once told me that 5 personalized letters from real
constituents indicates to a congressperson that the issue is 'important'
and needs their precious time & attention.
Good luck on the rest of your test program.
Kip Gardner
426 Schneider St. SE
North Canton, OH 44720
(330) 494-1775
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: corky, need "jist" of letter to congressman |
Kip,
thanks,
The part about keeping the small airports going and paying taxes , I like,
and put into the letter.
also put in about, that passing this won't cost the taxpayers " one red
cent" (whatever that is).
Think we have to push what the politicians think is "back burner" to what
the people who vote them into office , feel is "front burner". Guess if
corperate jets aren't affected, it's not an issue.
Corky, us yankees up north are doing our small part.
" you got to keep kicking till you get out of the box"
walt evans
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kip & Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corky, need "jist" of letter to congressman
>
> >
> >
> >Corky,
> >That is just the "jist" that I need. You gave me some good ideas.
> >Now Where's my pen?
> >walt evans
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corky, need "jist" of letter to congressman
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Walt,
> >> I would advise that you NOT use a standard letter as a congressional
aide
> >> once told me that if they receive those memo letters they usually send
> >back
> >> the standard reply and trash the requests, AND I BELIEVE HIM.
> >> It would be much more effective if you were to take a few minutes with
a
> >pen
> >> and write your lett, long hand and as brief as possible. Be sure and
bring
> >> out that this Sport Pilot issue is one which they can BRAG about as not
> >> costing the tax payers or the government one red cent to put into
effect.
> >I
> >> also brought out the position of small private aviation as becoming
> >extinct.
> >> Ask him how long has it been since he looked up on a week end and saw
or
> >> heard a Cub flying over. Try to make them think ( if that's possible).
> >> Corky in La
>
> Walt,
>
> A belated congrats on your first flights!
>
> Also, in your letter, remember to state SPECIFICALLY what it is you would
> like your congressperson to do, namely, whatever they can to get the FAA
to
> expedite passage of the Sprt Pilot Rule in its current form.
>
> Might also mention that this Rule will help keep small (taxpaying)
airports
> viable & in business by increasing General Aviation activity, thereby
> boosting the economic health of their district, something else they like
to
> be able to brag about.
>
> Corky is dead on about a personalized letter - form letters & e-mail get
> attention only as 'poll fodder'. A friend of mine who worked for a
> non-profit group once told me that 5 personalized letters from real
> constituents indicates to a congressperson that the issue is 'important'
> and needs their precious time & attention.
>
> Good luck on the rest of your test program.
>
> Kip Gardner
>
>
> 426 Schneider St. SE
> North Canton, OH 44720
> (330) 494-1775
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Landings (and Takeoffs) |
John,
When I recovered my Pietenpol in 1985, I tried to pare some
weight from it by substituting synthetic fabric for the original
Grade A cotton covering with its hand-rubbed doped finish. A
lightweight tailwheel was also installed, resulting in a 15 pound
reduction in the empty weight. Originally, it weighed 645 lbs.
with an A65 - 8 and the new empty weight came out at 630 lbs.
with a C85 - 8. The finish isn't what it used to be, but I did save
some weight.
Since then, I have installed a C85 - 12 engine sans electrics
and some very lightweight seat cushions. The -12 engine is a
bit heavier than the -8 and the cushions may weigh about 4 lbs.,
so my EW now is close to 640 lbs.
The other three Piets I have flown were all heavier than mine,
but all flew and handled very similarly. At our elevation (2500
ft. asl), the 65 hp ones didn't climb very well on hot days with a
passenger. Installing an 85 hp engine gives a reserve of power
and a decent climb rate. (In the winter, 65 hp was OK; it was on
those hot summer days the performance suffered.)
Cheers,
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Dan
I will actually be building 2 wing tanks and 2 - 2 gal fuse reserve tanks.
I have 2 piet projects underway.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: <ZigoDan(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
>
> Are you looking for a fuselage tank, or wing tank?
> If you need a fuse tank I might can help.
>
> Dan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Ford Piet for sale at this link below:
http://users.aol.com/bpanews/4sale.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Allen <overalles45(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I may be crazy!!!! |
I have posted the only picture that I have on
Matronics and my kiplane.com under picture gallery.
Thanks
Walter
--- clif wrote:
>
>
> Sign up with www.mykitplane.com
> You can upload your digital pics right
> off your computer in seconds-real easy!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Walter Allen" <overalles45(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I may be crazy!!!!
>
>
>
> >
> > Gary:
> >
> > Where and how do I post pictures, I am pretty new
> > (dumb) at this.
> >
> > thanks
> > Walter
> > --- Gary Gower wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Walter:
> > >
> > > Do you have some photos on the net? I will
> like to
> > > see how this
> > > engine conversion looks...
> > >
> > > Saludos
> > > Gary Gower
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Walter Allen wrote:
> Allen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Craig:
> > > > This motor has been converted for aircraft use
> and
> > > has
> > > > a standard bendix/slick? prop reduction unit
> that
> > > is
> > > > 2.5 to 1. this hub takes a standard prop.
> Thanks
> > > for
> > > > replying I think I will go ahead and try this
> > > project.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Walter
> > > > --- Jeffrey Wilcox
> > > wrote:
> "Jeffrey
> > > > > Wilcox"
> > > > >
> > > > > Walt - if that 1600 cc Ford is the
> cross-flow
> > > > > (intake on one side, exhaust
> > > > > on the other), it is the same as used in the
> > > Formula
> > > > > Ford race cars.
> > > > > Blueprinted and dry sumped, it produces
> 112-115
> > > HP,
> > > > > but at 6.500 rpm.
> > > > > You'll need to reduce that by at least 50%
> for
> > > prop
> > > > > speed. BTW, with the
> > > > > Cosworth head (16V, DOHC) and a pair of
> > > dual-throat
> > > > > Webers, you can get
> > > > > about 250 HP at 10,500 rpm - just need a bit
> > > more
> > > > > work on the bottom end.
> > > > > Great engines, very reliable.
> > > > >
> > > > > On the other things - the Piet tapers also,
> so
> > > no
> > > > > problem there. You may
> > > > > need to enlarge the c/s proportionately, to
> keep
> > > the
> > > > > cabane struts at a
> > > > > decent angle to allow entry/exit.
> > > > > As always, you will need to do a weight and
> > > balance
> > > > > to figure where the wing
> > > > > goes. You can do it very close by doing a
> W/B
> > > on
> > > > > the fuselage without the
> > > > > wing, and do the wing separately. Simple
> math
> > > will
> > > > > then tell you how to
> > > > > combine the two to get the CG at the proper
> > > 28-32%
> > > > > chord.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good luck with this project, and keep us
> posted!
> > > > >
> > > > > Craig
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Walter Allen <overalles45(at)yahoo.com>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: I may be crazy!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> Walter
> > > Allen
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Piet Builders:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am thinking of building a project, I
> have a
> > > > > fuselage
> > > > > > that measures 30" at the front, 37" behind
> the
> > > > > seat (2
> > > > > > person side by side) is 13.5 long same
> length
> > > as
> > > > > > tubing Piet fuselage in 1933 glider
> manual.
> > > And I
> > > > > have
> > > > > > a 1600 cc Ford Engine that produces 100 HP
> and
> > > > > weighs
> > > > > > 234lbs dry, very comparable to A Ford in
> > > > > dimensions,
> > > > > > weight and mounting to fuselage. I am
> using a
> > > cub
> > > > > type
> > > > > > gear and setting it the same as a standard
> > > 1930's
> > > > > > Pietenpol.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My Dilema, if I put this together:
> > > > > > 1. I want to use the Pietenpol Wooden
> > > Tailgroup
> > > > > > 2. I want to use the 3 peice parasol wing,
> do
> > > I
> > > > > widen
> > > > > > the center section, leave it the same or
> what?
> > > > > > 3. How am I going to figure out where to
> set
> > > the
> > > > > wing
> > > > > > position, because on my first project kind
> of
> > > part
> > > > > > Piet and part GN1 I had to move the wing
> to
> > > get CG
> > > > > > correct?
> > > > > > 4. my fuselage tapers from the front to
> the
> > > back
> > > > > where
> > > > > > as the pietenpol is square, what kind of
> > > problems
> > > > > am I
> > > > > > going to run into,generally speaking.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for any comments, I know this won't
> be
> > > a
> > > > > true
> > > > > > piet, but I think it might be fun to
> build.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Month --
> > > > > Gifts!)
> > > > > Click on the Contribution
> > > > > Terrific Free Gifts!
> > > > > Dralle, List Admin.
> > > > > _->
> > > > > Forum -
> > > > > Contributions of
>
=== message truncated ===
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: corky, need "jist" of letter to congressman |
Don't forget to mention the young eagles and
other youth oriented programs. Getting these
youngsters hooked on something that requires
self discipline, perserverence, and other positive
life skills will be enhanced by the easier access to
and lower cost of flying in this catagory. Get them
thinking positively.Youth programs they don't have
to spend a lot of taxpayers money on. They'll
like that.
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corky, need "jist" of letter to congressman
>
> Kip,
> thanks,
> The part about keeping the small airports going and paying taxes , I like,
> and put into the letter.
> also put in about, that passing this won't cost the taxpayers " one red
> cent" (whatever that is).
> Think we have to push what the politicians think is "back burner" to what
> the people who vote them into office , feel is "front burner". Guess if
> corperate jets aren't affected, it's not an issue.
> Corky, us yankees up north are doing our small part.
> " you got to keep kicking till you get out of the box"
> walt evans
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kip & Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corky, need "jist" of letter to congressman
>
>
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >Corky,
> > >That is just the "jist" that I need. You gave me some good ideas.
> > >Now Where's my pen?
> > >walt evans
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
> > >To:
> > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corky, need "jist" of letter to
congressman
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Walt,
> > >> I would advise that you NOT use a standard letter as a congressional
> aide
> > >> once told me that if they receive those memo letters they usually
send
> > >back
> > >> the standard reply and trash the requests, AND I BELIEVE HIM.
> > >> It would be much more effective if you were to take a few minutes
with
> a
> > >pen
> > >> and write your lett, long hand and as brief as possible. Be sure and
> bring
> > >> out that this Sport Pilot issue is one which they can BRAG about as
not
> > >> costing the tax payers or the government one red cent to put into
> effect.
> > >I
> > >> also brought out the position of small private aviation as becoming
> > >extinct.
> > >> Ask him how long has it been since he looked up on a week end and saw
> or
> > >> heard a Cub flying over. Try to make them think ( if that's
possible).
> > >> Corky in La
> >
> > Walt,
> >
> > A belated congrats on your first flights!
> >
> > Also, in your letter, remember to state SPECIFICALLY what it is you
would
> > like your congressperson to do, namely, whatever they can to get the FAA
> to
> > expedite passage of the Sprt Pilot Rule in its current form.
> >
> > Might also mention that this Rule will help keep small (taxpaying)
> airports
> > viable & in business by increasing General Aviation activity, thereby
> > boosting the economic health of their district, something else they like
> to
> > be able to brag about.
> >
> > Corky is dead on about a personalized letter - form letters & e-mail get
> > attention only as 'poll fodder'. A friend of mine who worked for a
> > non-profit group once told me that 5 personalized letters from real
> > constituents indicates to a congressperson that the issue is 'important'
> > and needs their precious time & attention.
> >
> > Good luck on the rest of your test program.
> >
> > Kip Gardner
> >
> >
> > 426 Schneider St. SE
> > North Canton, OH 44720
> > (330) 494-1775
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? |
Dear Listers,
I got to thinking today that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund
Raiser and also take the opportunity to express why I think the List
Services here provide a far better experience than the commercial
equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with
running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the
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I have received an extremely positive response from Listers regarding the
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I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows
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Email List Administrator
------------------------------------------
The SSL Secure Web Site:
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------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I may be crazy!!!! |
Thanks Walt, I remember them, is the reduction designed by Mr. Lubits
(sp?) it will work great.
How long has it been stored? Maybe you should change the bearings, even
sealed, corrosion could make them fail.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Walter Allen wrote:
>
>
> I have posted the only picture that I have on
> Matronics and my kiplane.com under picture gallery.
> Thanks
> Walter
> --- clif wrote:
> >
> >
> > Sign up with www.mykitplane.com
> > You can upload your digital pics right
> > off your computer in seconds-real easy!
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Walter Allen" <overalles45(at)yahoo.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I may be crazy!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Gary:
> > >
> > > Where and how do I post pictures, I am pretty new
> > > (dumb) at this.
> > >
> > > thanks
> > > Walter
> > > --- Gary Gower wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Walter:
> > > >
> > > > Do you have some photos on the net? I will
> > like to
> > > > see how this
> > > > engine conversion looks...
> > > >
> > > > Saludos
> > > > Gary Gower
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Walter Allen wrote:
> > Allen
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Craig:
> > > > > This motor has been converted for aircraft use
> > and
> > > > has
> > > > > a standard bendix/slick? prop reduction unit
> > that
> > > > is
> > > > > 2.5 to 1. this hub takes a standard prop.
> > Thanks
> > > > for
> > > > > replying I think I will go ahead and try this
> > > > project.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Walter
> > > > > --- Jeffrey Wilcox
> > > > wrote:
> > "Jeffrey
> > > > > > Wilcox"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Walt - if that 1600 cc Ford is the
> > cross-flow
> > > > > > (intake on one side, exhaust
> > > > > > on the other), it is the same as used in the
> > > > Formula
> > > > > > Ford race cars.
> > > > > > Blueprinted and dry sumped, it produces
> > 112-115
> > > > HP,
> > > > > > but at 6.500 rpm.
> > > > > > You'll need to reduce that by at least 50%
> > for
> > > > prop
> > > > > > speed. BTW, with the
> > > > > > Cosworth head (16V, DOHC) and a pair of
> > > > dual-throat
> > > > > > Webers, you can get
> > > > > > about 250 HP at 10,500 rpm - just need a bit
> > > > more
> > > > > > work on the bottom end.
> > > > > > Great engines, very reliable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On the other things - the Piet tapers also,
> > so
> > > > no
> > > > > > problem there. You may
> > > > > > need to enlarge the c/s proportionately, to
> > keep
> > > > the
> > > > > > cabane struts at a
> > > > > > decent angle to allow entry/exit.
> > > > > > As always, you will need to do a weight and
> > > > balance
> > > > > > to figure where the wing
> > > > > > goes. You can do it very close by doing a
> > W/B
> > > > on
> > > > > > the fuselage without the
> > > > > > wing, and do the wing separately. Simple
> > math
> > > > will
> > > > > > then tell you how to
> > > > > > combine the two to get the CG at the proper
> > > > 28-32%
> > > > > > chord.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good luck with this project, and keep us
> > posted!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Craig
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Walter Allen <overalles45(at)yahoo.com>
> > > > > > To:
> > > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: I may be crazy!!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > Walter
> > > > Allen
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Piet Builders:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am thinking of building a project, I
> > have a
> > > > > > fuselage
> > > > > > > that measures 30" at the front, 37" behind
> > the
> > > > > > seat (2
> > > > > > > person side by side) is 13.5 long same
> > length
> > > > as
> > > > > > > tubing Piet fuselage in 1933 glider
> > manual.
> > > > And I
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > a 1600 cc Ford Engine that produces 100 HP
> > and
> > > > > > weighs
> > > > > > > 234lbs dry, very comparable to A Ford in
> > > > > > dimensions,
> > > > > > > weight and mounting to fuselage. I am
> > using a
> > > > cub
> > > > > > type
> > > > > > > gear and setting it the same as a standard
> > > > 1930's
> > > > > > > Pietenpol.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My Dilema, if I put this together:
> > > > > > > 1. I want to use the Pietenpol Wooden
> > > > Tailgroup
> > > > > > > 2. I want to use the 3 peice parasol wing,
> > do
> > > > I
> > > > > > widen
> > > > > > > the center section, leave it the same or
> > what?
> > > > > > > 3. How am I going to figure out where to
> > set
> > > > the
> > > > > > wing
> > > > > > > position, because on my first project kind
> > of
> > > > part
> > > > > > > Piet and part GN1 I had to move the wing
> > to
> > > > get CG
> > > > > > > correct?
> > > > > > > 4. my fuselage tapers from the front to
> > the
> > > > back
> > > > > > where
> > > > > > > as the pietenpol is square, what kind of
> > > > problems
> > > > > > am I
> > > > > > > going to run into,generally speaking.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for any comments, I know this won't
> > be
> > > > a
> > > > > > true
> > > > > > > piet, but I think it might be fun to
> > build.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
>
=== message truncated ===
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"Fishnet"
| Subject: | covering the front hole |
Whats the best way to cover the front hole for winter flying?
I looked into snaps, but they seem to big and ugly. What are you guys using?
thanks
walt
NX140DL
(north N.J.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | covering the front hole |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I used:
Snaps.
Sorry.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: walter evans [mailto:wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: covering the front hole
Whats the best way to cover the front hole for winter flying?
I looked into snaps, but they seem to big and ugly. What are you guys
using?
thanks
walt
NX140DL
(north N.J.)
==
Contribution
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List angle of incidence |
When one is figuring the angle of incidence does the thrust line of the piet
airfoil go thru the center of the radius on the nose of the rib or along
the flat bottom of the rib? Also what amount of incidence have you guys
been using between the top logeron and the rib thrust line?
The Iowa farmer with his corn and beans in the bin
Wizzard 187(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List angle of incidence |
it has always been my umderstanding that the AOI is from trailing edge to
center radius of the LE and not the flat of the airfoil.
DJ
www.raptoronline.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Wizzard187(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List angle of incidence
>
> When one is figuring the angle of incidence does the thrust line of the
piet
> airfoil go thru the center of the radius on the nose of the rib or along
> the flat bottom of the rib? Also what amount of incidence have you guys
> been using between the top logeron and the rib thrust line?
> The Iowa farmer with his corn and beans in the bin
> Wizzard 187(at)aol.com
>
>
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: covering the front hole |
I used snaps. Are you talking about those little things about the size of a
dime that they use on boat covers, etc.? Hardly notice them on mine.
Ted Brousseau
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: covering the front hole
>
> Whats the best way to cover the front hole for winter flying?
> I looked into snaps, but they seem to big and ugly. What are you guys
using?
> thanks
> walt
> NX140DL
> (north N.J.)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List angle of incidence |
| From: | Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
The straight line from leading edge to trailing edge is the wing chord. AOI
(angle of incidence) is the angle between the chord line and some
longitudinal reference line which on the Piet/GN-1 is usually the centerline
parallel to, and even with, the top longerons.
11/19/02 16:58, DJ Vegh at aircamper(at)imagedv.com wrote:
>
> it has always been my umderstanding that the AOI is from trailing edge to
> center radius of the LE and not the flat of the airfoil.
>
> DJ
> www.raptoronline.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: covering the front hole |
Most automotive upholstery shops can get you black snaps (instead of silver)
& they may also have some other ideas on hiding them -- ask what the street
rod guys are doing!? You could also sew the fuzzy side of velcro to your
cockpit padding & sew the hook side to your cover (with a couple snaps in
the corners where they won't be seen -- the "belt & suspender" method.)
Mike C. (a former "seamster"!!)
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: covering the front hole
>
> Whats the best way to cover the front hole for winter flying?
> I looked into snaps, but they seem to big and ugly. What are you guys
using?
> thanks
> walt
> NX140DL
> (north N.J.)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: covering the front hole |
Steve E.,
Are snaps the way to go? funny how you look at all these planes at fly-ins,
but when it's time to recall details, you draw a blank.
Hopefully I can fly off my hours during the NJ winter, ( and I'm glad I put
in cabin heat, but don't know if it really works)
figured if I block off the front I'd be better off.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: covering the front hole
>
> I used:
>
> Snaps.
>
> Sorry.
>
> Steve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: walter evans [mailto:wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net]
> To: piet discussion; Fishnet
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: covering the front hole
>
>
>
> Whats the best way to cover the front hole for winter flying?
> I looked into snaps, but they seem to big and ugly. What are you guys
> using?
> thanks
> walt
> NX140DL
> (north N.J.)
>
>
> ==
> Contribution
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: covering the front hole |
In a message dated 11/19/02 5:38:15 PM Central Standard Time,
wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< Whats the best way to cover the front hole for winter flying?
I looked into snaps, but they seem to big and ugly. What are you guys using?
thanks
walt
NX140DL
(north N.J.) >>
Walt, I used a sheet metal cover, and hinged it down the center, like a
butterfly hood. Works great, and gives the appearance of a one holer.
Simple to install, and easy to access for inspection. I could e-mail ya some
pictures direct, with a more detailed explaination of how I did it.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Ed G.) |
| Subject: | Re: covering the front hole |
Chuck....I would like to see some pics of your aluminum cover , I
thought that was my idea in fact...you beat me to it...How do you fasten
it down?? Also ...has anyone tried useing a simple cabin heat system
with a front cover on. All the heat would have to pass the pilot on the
way out. When I was young and crazy I used to ride around in the snow (
up north) in my convertible 442 with the top down and the heat on. it
wasn't too bad. you could really feel the heat. If you would send me
some pics of the cover I'd appreciate it. Thanks Ed G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | covering the front hole |
I have a couple of pictures of the typical snaps 'n' naugahyde cover as used
on Ernie Moreno's Piet at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets.html and
you'll see that it isn't all that bad looking. As mentioned, you can get
snaps in black rather than shiny, and although Ernie's cover isn't
particularly pretty, you can see that with a little work (such as sewing in
some pockets on the backside so you can slide in some slim fiberglass rods
to have the cover follow the curvature better), it can be made very
acceptable. Somebody mentionedh a hinged metal cover and that is
super-slick, but the naugahyde cover is easier (IMHO) and easily removable.
Now ask yourself: "what would Bernie do?" ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Angle of incidence |
Mr. W. 187: I'm setting up my center section at this time using the
plans method--front cabanes 1" longer than the rear ones to get my angle
of incidence. I don't know why I'm trustig the plans to be right, they
have let me down so many times before. Leon Stefan A Kansas truck driver
with a real name.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: covering the front hole |
Ed,
I agree with Oscar. I flew mine from Florida to Brodhead. I used a "hard"
cover on the front hole and a "soft" cover on the rear hole. At home we use
"hard" covers on both holes.
The "hard" cover can be either 1/16" plywood covered with something like
naugahide or something else (campaign signs are great) that will allow it to
bend to the shape of the fuselage but be sturdy from front to back. The
"soft" cover is made out of canvas. Both are held on with 4 snaps on each
side of the fuselage. The soft should have a couple at the front and back
of the cockpit.
The good thing about the hard cover is that it doesn't sag and get blown
about by the slip stream. The bad thing is that it doesn't fold up and
store out of the way when you have someone in the cockpit. The soft one can
fold and store easily.
The cabin heat does travel back to at least the legs of the pilot when the
front cover is on.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: covering the front hole
>
> Chuck....I would like to see some pics of your aluminum cover , I
> thought that was my idea in fact...you beat me to it...How do you fasten
> it down?? Also ...has anyone tried useing a simple cabin heat system
> with a front cover on. All the heat would have to pass the pilot on the
> way out. When I was young and crazy I used to ride around in the snow (
> up north) in my convertible 442 with the top down and the heat on. it
> wasn't too bad. you could really feel the heat. If you would send me
> some pics of the cover I'd appreciate it. Thanks Ed G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | cabin heat works great! |
So glad I put in cabin heat! It was a beeeeuuutiful afternoon up here in NJ.
Into my second hour in the air, and just starting to relax a little with the feel
of the Piet. Doing a big oval just west of the field over fields ( yes we
have fields in NJ) when I remembered my cabin heat. Worked great. Didn't exactly
burn my feet, but you could feel it. Now just have to cover the front hole
and I'll be as snug as a bug.
To anyone in the building stage that wonders should he or shouldn't he, I think
it's worth it. Just for the book, I built four separate pipes for an A-65 with
the heat muffs by Tony Bengalis, of the same sized pipe split longways, spread
open and attached to only one exhaust pipe, and capped at the rear, with
a side discharge pipe for the scat hose. didn't think the heat would be there,
but seems to be fine. One side feeds cabin heat , the other feeds carb heat.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND!!!
Read many times about when you fly it, it will all be worth while,,,well double
that, and it goes for me.
walt
NX140DL
(north N.J.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brants" <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: covering the front hole |
If you're able to email photos of this, I'd be interested too.
Thanks,
Tom Brant, MPLS
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: covering the front hole
>
> In a message dated 11/19/02 5:38:15 PM Central Standard Time,
> wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
>
> << Whats the best way to cover the front hole for winter flying?
> I looked into snaps, but they seem to big and ugly. What are you guys
using?
> thanks
> walt
> NX140DL
> (north N.J.) >>
>
> Walt, I used a sheet metal cover, and hinged it down the center, like a
> butterfly hood. Works great, and gives the appearance of a one holer.
> Simple to install, and easy to access for inspection. I could e-mail ya
some
> pictures direct, with a more detailed explaination of how I did it.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cabin heat, was: covering the front hole |
Here is not very cold in winter, but I once saw in an old mail plane
photo, a covering for the pilot cabin.
It looked similar to a kayak cover, was like a jacket but was fastened
with snaps around the cabin.
He weared a traditional padded aircraft helmet with goggles of that
time... Maybe there was some kind of cabin heat inside the
cabin/jacket?
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- "Ed G." wrote:
>
> Chuck....I would like to see some pics of your aluminum cover , I
> thought that was my idea in fact...you beat me to it...How do you
> fasten
> it down?? Also ...has anyone tried useing a simple cabin heat system
> with a front cover on. All the heat would have to pass the pilot on
> the
> way out. When I was young and crazy I used to ride around in the snow
> (
> up north) in my convertible 442 with the top down and the heat on. it
> wasn't too bad. you could really feel the heat. If you would send me
> some pics of the cover I'd appreciate it. Thanks Ed G.
>
>
>
> Contribution
> Gifts!
> _->
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: covering the front hole |
To me snaps around the cockpit just add to
the antique feel of the aircraft. It fits right in
with the era this thing comes from. Think of
those classics like the MG's, Alpha's and
other clamshell fendered exotic cars of that
time. They all had things like this sticking
out in the wind and looked just great. Adds
character. Now if it was a Lanciar.........
Also, think about that second line below.
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: covering the front hole
>
> Steve E.,
> Are snaps the way to go? funny how you look at all these planes at
fly-ins,
>** but when it's time to recall details, you draw a blank.**
> Hopefully I can fly off my hours during the NJ winter, ( and I'm glad I
put
> in cabin heat, but don't know if it really works)
> figured if I block off the front I'd be better off.
> walt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: covering the front hole
>
>
> >
> > I used:
> >
> > Snaps.
> >
> > Sorry.
> >
> > Steve E.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: walter evans [mailto:wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net]
> > To: piet discussion; Fishnet
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: covering the front hole
> >
> >
> >
> > Whats the best way to cover the front hole for winter flying?
> > I looked into snaps, but they seem to big and ugly. What are you guys
> > using?
> > thanks
> > walt
> > NX140DL
> > (north N.J.)
> >
> >
> > ==
> > Contribution
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | front cover snaps |
I use snaps on mine, too. One thing I have found is that with the front cover left
off, I get some of the warm radiator air up my right pantleg. VERY nice on
these cold fall days. I'm experimenting where to put the cardboard radiator blocker
so I can channel the most warm air into the front hole.
What's that...........you don't have a radiator?
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: front cover snaps |
----- Original Message -----
From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: front cover snaps
+++++++++++
Larry,
Sure do, Subaru's are liquid cooled also-remember?
John
++++++++++++
>
> I use snaps on mine, too. One thing I have found is that with the front
cover left off, I get some of the warm radiator air up my right pantleg.
VERY nice on these cold fall days. I'm experimenting where to put the
cardboard radiator blocker so I can channel the most warm air into the front
hole.
>
> What's that...........you don't have a radiator?
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: front cover snaps |
Larry,
Don't forget the antifreeze!!!! Something we don't worry about.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: front cover snaps
>
> I use snaps on mine, too. One thing I have found is that with the front
cover left off, I get some of the warm radiator air up my right pantleg.
VERY nice on these cold fall days. I'm experimenting where to put the
cardboard radiator blocker so I can channel the most warm air into the front
hole.
>
> What's that...........you don't have a radiator?
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Botsford" <botsford7(at)hot.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: piet hats on ebay |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: piet hats on ebay
>
> I've got a number of embroidered piet hats selling on ebay for those
> interested:
>
> Steve E
>
> Item # 979446369
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Botsford" <botsford7(at)hot.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: piet hats on ebay |
Steve,
The hats arrived today. I am wearing one as I type. Love em'. A number of
us in our EAA chapter meet for lunch each Thursday noon. Wish I had it
earlier today. There are two other Piet owners in the chapter. The extra
one will probably go to one of them and the other will probably want your
e-address. Your wife explained that the hats cost more direct. Oh, well
that is the breaks of flying a Piet. Much thanks for your prompt response
and Keep it low & slow.
jon botsford
p.s. What is your discipline at BYU? I was on the Engineering Technology
faculty at Texas A&M for 23 years. Retired now and loving it!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: piet hats on ebay
>
> I've got a number of embroidered piet hats selling on ebay for those
> interested:
>
> Steve E
>
> Item # 979446369
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: front cover snaps |
Hey Ted
You should think about some anti freeze. It not only increases the boiling
point of water in the system, it has lubricants for the bushings if you have
a water pump and has corrosion inhibitors to protest your radiator while
preventing scale build up in the radiator tubes.
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: front cover snaps
>
> Larry,
>
> Don't forget the antifreeze!!!! Something we don't worry about.
>
> Ted
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
> To: "Pietenpol-List Digest Server"
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: front cover snaps
>
>
> >
> > I use snaps on mine, too. One thing I have found is that with the front
> cover left off, I get some of the warm radiator air up my right pantleg.
> VERY nice on these cold fall days. I'm experimenting where to put the
> cardboard radiator blocker so I can channel the most warm air into the
front
> hole.
> >
> > What's that...........you don't have a radiator?
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cabin heat works great! |
Walt
What did you use for a controll valve for the cabin heat and can you
controll it in flight?
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabin heat works great!
>
> So glad I put in cabin heat! It was a beeeeuuutiful afternoon up here in
NJ. Into my second hour in the air, and just starting to relax a little
with the feel of the Piet. Doing a big oval just west of the field over
fields ( yes we have fields in NJ) when I remembered my cabin heat. Worked
great. Didn't exactly burn my feet, but you could feel it. Now just have
to cover the front hole and I'll be as snug as a bug.
> To anyone in the building stage that wonders should he or shouldn't he, I
think it's worth it. Just for the book, I built four separate pipes for an
A-65 with the heat muffs by Tony Bengalis, of the same sized pipe split
longways, spread open and attached to only one exhaust pipe, and capped at
the rear, with a side discharge pipe for the scat hose. didn't think the
heat would be there, but seems to be fine. One side feeds cabin heat , the
other feeds carb heat.
> AIN'T LIFE GRAND!!!
> Read many times about when you fly it, it will all be worth while,,,well
double that, and it goes for me.
> walt
> NX140DL
> (north N.J.)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Allen <overalles45(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I may be crazy!!!! |
It has been stored for about 3 years, you may be right
on the bearings, I gave quite a bit for the engine
when I bought it, then I decided to sell it could not
get any takers, tried to almost give the darn thing
away, trade for a volkswagen engine etc. No Takers, so
now my winter project is to mount it on the fuselage
and hear it run by spring.
thanks
Walter
--- Gary Gower wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Walt, I remember them, is the reduction
> designed by Mr. Lubits
> (sp?) it will work great.
> How long has it been stored? Maybe you should change
> the bearings, even
> sealed, corrosion could make them fail.
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
>
>
> --- Walter Allen wrote:
> >
> >
> > I have posted the only picture that I have on
> > Matronics and my kiplane.com under picture
> gallery.
> > Thanks
> > Walter
> > --- clif wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Sign up with www.mykitplane.com
> > > You can upload your digital pics right
> > > off your computer in seconds-real easy!
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Walter Allen" <overalles45(at)yahoo.com>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I may be crazy!!!!
> > >
> > >
> Allen
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Gary:
> > > >
> > > > Where and how do I post pictures, I am pretty
> new
> > > > (dumb) at this.
> > > >
> > > > thanks
> > > > Walter
> > > > --- Gary Gower wrote:
> Gower
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Walter:
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you have some photos on the net? I will
> > > like to
> > > > > see how this
> > > > > engine conversion looks...
> > > > >
> > > > > Saludos
> > > > > Gary Gower
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Walter Allen
> wrote:
> Walter
> > > Allen
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Craig:
> > > > > > This motor has been converted for aircraft
> use
> > > and
> > > > > has
> > > > > > a standard bendix/slick? prop reduction
> unit
> > > that
> > > > > is
> > > > > > 2.5 to 1. this hub takes a standard prop.
> > > Thanks
> > > > > for
> > > > > > replying I think I will go ahead and try
> this
> > > > > project.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > Walter
> > > > > > --- Jeffrey Wilcox
>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > "Jeffrey
> > > > > > > Wilcox"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Walt - if that 1600 cc Ford is the
> > > cross-flow
> > > > > > > (intake on one side, exhaust
> > > > > > > on the other), it is the same as used in
> the
> > > > > Formula
> > > > > > > Ford race cars.
> > > > > > > Blueprinted and dry sumped, it produces
> > > 112-115
> > > > > HP,
> > > > > > > but at 6.500 rpm.
> > > > > > > You'll need to reduce that by at least
> 50%
> > > for
> > > > > prop
> > > > > > > speed. BTW, with the
> > > > > > > Cosworth head (16V, DOHC) and a pair of
> > > > > dual-throat
> > > > > > > Webers, you can get
> > > > > > > about 250 HP at 10,500 rpm - just need a
> bit
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > work on the bottom end.
> > > > > > > Great engines, very reliable.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On the other things - the Piet tapers
> also,
> > > so
> > > > > no
> > > > > > > problem there. You may
> > > > > > > need to enlarge the c/s proportionately,
> to
> > > keep
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > cabane struts at a
> > > > > > > decent angle to allow entry/exit.
> > > > > > > As always, you will need to do a weight
> and
> > > > > balance
> > > > > > > to figure where the wing
> > > > > > > goes. You can do it very close by doing
> a
> > > W/B
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > the fuselage without the
> > > > > > > wing, and do the wing separately.
> Simple
> > > math
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > then tell you how to
> > > > > > > combine the two to get the CG at the
> proper
> > > > > 28-32%
> > > > > > > chord.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good luck with this project, and keep us
> > > posted!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Craig
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: Walter Allen
>
> > > > > > > To:
> > > > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: I may be
> crazy!!!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > Walter
> > > > > Allen
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Piet Builders:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am thinking of building a project, I
> > > have a
> > > > > > > fuselage
> > > > > > > > that measures 30" at the front, 37"
> behind
> > > the
> > > > > > > seat (2
> > > > > > > > person side by side) is 13.5 long same
> > > length
> > > > > as
> > > > > > > > tubing Piet fuselage in 1933 glider
> > > manual.
> > > > > And I
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > a 1600 cc Ford Engine that produces
> 100 HP
> > > and
> > > > > > > weighs
> > > > > > > > 234lbs dry, very comparable to A Ford
> in
> > > > > > > dimensions,
> > > > > > > > weight and mounting to fuselage. I am
> > > using a
> > > > > cub
> > > > > > > type
> > > > > > > > gear and setting it the same as a
> standard
> > > > > 1930's
> > > > > > > > Pietenpol.
> > > > > > > >
>
=== message truncated ===
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Allen <overalles45(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I may be crazy!!!! |
It has been stored for about 3 years, you may be right
on the bearings, I gave quite a bit for the engine
when I bought it, then I decided to sell it could not
get any takers, tried to almost give the darn thing
away, trade for a volkswagen engine etc. No Takers, so
now my winter project is to mount it on the fuselage
and hear it run by spring.
thanks
Walter
--- Gary Gower wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Walt, I remember them, is the reduction
> designed by Mr. Lubits
> (sp?) it will work great.
> How long has it been stored? Maybe you should change
> the bearings, even
> sealed, corrosion could make them fail.
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
>
>
> --- Walter Allen wrote:
> >
> >
> > I have posted the only picture that I have on
> > Matronics and my kiplane.com under picture
> gallery.
> > Thanks
> > Walter
> > --- clif wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Sign up with www.mykitplane.com
> > > You can upload your digital pics right
> > > off your computer in seconds-real easy!
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Walter Allen" <overalles45(at)yahoo.com>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I may be crazy!!!!
> > >
> > >
> Allen
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Gary:
> > > >
> > > > Where and how do I post pictures, I am pretty
> new
> > > > (dumb) at this.
> > > >
> > > > thanks
> > > > Walter
> > > > --- Gary Gower wrote:
> Gower
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Walter:
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you have some photos on the net? I will
> > > like to
> > > > > see how this
> > > > > engine conversion looks...
> > > > >
> > > > > Saludos
> > > > > Gary Gower
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Walter Allen
> wrote:
> Walter
> > > Allen
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Craig:
> > > > > > This motor has been converted for aircraft
> use
> > > and
> > > > > has
> > > > > > a standard bendix/slick? prop reduction
> unit
> > > that
> > > > > is
> > > > > > 2.5 to 1. this hub takes a standard prop.
> > > Thanks
> > > > > for
> > > > > > replying I think I will go ahead and try
> this
> > > > > project.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > Walter
> > > > > > --- Jeffrey Wilcox
>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > "Jeffrey
> > > > > > > Wilcox"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Walt - if that 1600 cc Ford is the
> > > cross-flow
> > > > > > > (intake on one side, exhaust
> > > > > > > on the other), it is the same as used in
> the
> > > > > Formula
> > > > > > > Ford race cars.
> > > > > > > Blueprinted and dry sumped, it produces
> > > 112-115
> > > > > HP,
> > > > > > > but at 6.500 rpm.
> > > > > > > You'll need to reduce that by at least
> 50%
> > > for
> > > > > prop
> > > > > > > speed. BTW, with the
> > > > > > > Cosworth head (16V, DOHC) and a pair of
> > > > > dual-throat
> > > > > > > Webers, you can get
> > > > > > > about 250 HP at 10,500 rpm - just need a
> bit
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > work on the bottom end.
> > > > > > > Great engines, very reliable.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On the other things - the Piet tapers
> also,
> > > so
> > > > > no
> > > > > > > problem there. You may
> > > > > > > need to enlarge the c/s proportionately,
> to
> > > keep
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > cabane struts at a
> > > > > > > decent angle to allow entry/exit.
> > > > > > > As always, you will need to do a weight
> and
> > > > > balance
> > > > > > > to figure where the wing
> > > > > > > goes. You can do it very close by doing
> a
> > > W/B
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > the fuselage without the
> > > > > > > wing, and do the wing separately.
> Simple
> > > math
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > then tell you how to
> > > > > > > combine the two to get the CG at the
> proper
> > > > > 28-32%
> > > > > > > chord.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good luck with this project, and keep us
> > > posted!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Craig
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: Walter Allen
>
> > > > > > > To:
> > > > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: I may be
> crazy!!!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > Walter
> > > > > Allen
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Piet Builders:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am thinking of building a project, I
> > > have a
> > > > > > > fuselage
> > > > > > > > that measures 30" at the front, 37"
> behind
> > > the
> > > > > > > seat (2
> > > > > > > > person side by side) is 13.5 long same
> > > length
> > > > > as
> > > > > > > > tubing Piet fuselage in 1933 glider
> > > manual.
> > > > > And I
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > a 1600 cc Ford Engine that produces
> 100 HP
> > > and
> > > > > > > weighs
> > > > > > > > 234lbs dry, very comparable to A Ford
> in
> > > > > > > dimensions,
> > > > > > > > weight and mounting to fuselage. I am
> > > using a
> > > > > cub
> > > > > > > type
> > > > > > > > gear and setting it the same as a
> standard
> > > > > 1930's
> > > > > > > > Pietenpol.
> > > > > > > >
>
=== message truncated ===
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
Pieters, For my one piece wing I am getting ready to glue my spars
together - as per the Pietenpol plans. Has anyone had any problem with this
glue joint or flack from the FAA inspectors? Anyone have special tips or
cautions?
------thanks
Henry Williams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
We are quickly approaching the end of November and the official end of the
List Fund Raiser. If you look forward to checking your List email everyday
(and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably
getting at least $20 or $30 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each
year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some lame magazine or
even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to
you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that same amount and get a
well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to
think of it, you do... :-)
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support
YOUR Lists.
Contribution Page:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution
thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made
possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
Henry,
Are you referring to the scarf joint in the center? It has been suggested
to not scarf the way the plans show. You will get more gluing surface area,
thus a stronger joint, if the scarf is on the wide surface of the spar. In
the manual Don Pietenpol sells in the plan package he acknowledges that the way
his father scarfed that joint is not the way to go, and he says to do it the
proper way. Is there a reason for you to join your spars the way the plans
show? I think this is one of those areas in the blueprints that show one way,
but everyone does it another way, and the plans never got updated.
There are pictures of scarf splices in AC 43.13-1B, which can be found
online. Also if you have the EAA Woodbook you can see how they suggest it.
Kent Hallsten
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Borodent(at)aol.com [mailto:Borodent(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 12:10 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: one piece wing
>
>
>
> Pieters, For my one piece wing I am getting ready to glue my spars
> together - as per the Pietenpol plans. Has anyone had any
> problem with this
> glue joint or flack from the FAA inspectors? Anyone have
> special tips or
> cautions?
> ------thanks
> Henry Williams
>
>
> ============
> Contribution
> Free Gifts!
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: one piece wing |
Kent
thanks for the reply--- I thought the other joint, that you describe, with
the bigger surface area was a better joint - but that for some subtle reason
the plan's joint was prefered.
Henry Williams
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | piet hats on ebay |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Jon,
Glad you got the hats. I've had nothing but happy customers over the
years with them. I still wear one of my three own regularly. The only
other hat I own is my Bearhawk hat. I have about another 15 or so
remaining, running low on the blue ones. I have been selling them for
$20 each and if you order 2 or more shipping is free. Ebay is a new
thing to me so the price is a little lower there to start bidding, if
you win a hat there, I'll sell you as many as you want at your winning
bid, as I did in your case. Buy it now price is $20 free shipping, so
try your luck. I'd rather sell direct to avoid the listing fees. Either
way you can feel like your supporting the piet effort. My proceeds go
to more hats and piet fuel!
Sounds like we do (did) the same kinds of things professionally! I am
in the Office of IT specifically tasked with Hardware and Mass Storage.
My background is Intel based Server operating systems,
Netware/Windows/etc. More recently I have specialized in storage area
networking and unix hardware. Retirement is still a long way off, but I
pretend I'm retired on the weekends. Check out my projects at
http://aircamper.byu.edu
Piets forever,
Steve e.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Botsford [mailto:botsford7(at)hot.rr.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: piet hats on ebay
Steve,
The hats arrived today. I am wearing one as I type. Love em'. A
number of
us in our EAA chapter meet for lunch each Thursday noon. Wish I had it
earlier today. There are two other Piet owners in the chapter. The
extra
one will probably go to one of them and the other will probably want
your
e-address. Your wife explained that the hats cost more direct. Oh,
well
that is the breaks of flying a Piet. Much thanks for your prompt
response
and Keep it low & slow.
jon botsford
p.s. What is your discipline at BYU? I was on the Engineering
Technology
faculty at Texas A&M for 23 years. Retired now and loving it!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: piet hats on ebay
>
> I've got a number of embroidered piet hats selling on ebay for those
> interested:
>
> Steve E
>
> Item # 979446369
>
>
==
Contribution
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
Henry,
The center scarf joint that BHP shows doesn't even come close to the 1:12
slope required for a "real" splice. But it's a lot easier to cut. The
reason he got away with it is that the wing is in essentially pure
compression at that point--there's no bending moment at all. That's why we
can get away with the 3-piece wing with no change to the struts. Do the
stress analysis--it's interesting and straight out of Freshman Physics.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cabin heat works great! |
Dick,
I used a regular push/pull wire control from AS&S ( can get you the part #
if needed) and built a heat box from the Tony Bengalis book.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabin heat works great!
>
> Walt
> What did you use for a controll valve for the cabin heat and can you
> controll it in flight?
> Dick Navratil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To: "piet discussion"
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabin heat works great!
>
>
>
> >
> > So glad I put in cabin heat! It was a beeeeuuutiful afternoon up here
in
> NJ. Into my second hour in the air, and just starting to relax a little
> with the feel of the Piet. Doing a big oval just west of the field over
> fields ( yes we have fields in NJ) when I remembered my cabin heat.
Worked
> great. Didn't exactly burn my feet, but you could feel it. Now just have
> to cover the front hole and I'll be as snug as a bug.
> > To anyone in the building stage that wonders should he or shouldn't he,
I
> think it's worth it. Just for the book, I built four separate pipes for
an
> A-65 with the heat muffs by Tony Bengalis, of the same sized pipe split
> longways, spread open and attached to only one exhaust pipe, and capped at
> the rear, with a side discharge pipe for the scat hose. didn't think the
> heat would be there, but seems to be fine. One side feeds cabin heat ,
the
> other feeds carb heat.
> > AIN'T LIFE GRAND!!!
> > Read many times about when you fly it, it will all be worth
while,,,well
> double that, and it goes for me.
> > walt
> > NX140DL
> > (north N.J.)
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris gomez <gomerair(at)yahoo.com> |
What thickness aluminum are you guys using for the front turtle deck?
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Holcomb" <ksholcomb(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: one piece wing |
I disagree with your statement about no bending moment at the centerline.
If you will, imagine the left wing wanting to rotate around the left cabane,
and the right wing wanting to rotate around the right cabane. Now sketch
out an exagerated version of it and you will notice that a lot of curvature
will be required to connect the lines for the left and right sides. If that
deformation is constrained a moment will result. The one piece wing
obviously constrains that.
There are several very simple solutions. You could rotate the plane of the
splice 90 deg as suggested in the builders manual. Or you could build the
wing like BHP did his last few from several pieces of wood laminated
together. I plan on going with laminations as that will allow a gentle
slope at each interface. Even better is the fact that smaller pieces of
wood are more easily gotten, shipped and I could make that up out of 12 ft
sticks. It also has built in 'crack stoppers'. Stagger the splices so they
are not at the same location and such that they are not at a fitting either.
I would put the cap splices at the least bending location, which is
somewhere outboard of the center section (sketch it out with exagerated
deflections, or play with some thin balsa stock until you get the idea.) As
for why so many have successfully flown with the rather awkward splice shown
in the original plans (and bolts at the same location that remove
cross-sectional area from the spar where it is needed most) is easily
explained by the 'rugged construction.' If things are stout enough they do
not have to be ideal. That splice is just about the only area where in my
opinion the design as drawn on the plans is not very well thought out. The
good news is that it is easily cured. Whatever you do keep it simple and
light. The three piece wing does not suffer from that shortfall, however it
pays for that with 30 lbs and a lot of extra effort.
Kevin
http://www.angelfire.com/va2/aerodrome/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: one piece wing
>
> Henry,
> The center scarf joint that BHP shows doesn't even come close to the 1:12
> slope required for a "real" splice. But it's a lot easier to cut. The
> reason he got away with it is that the wing is in essentially pure
> compression at that point--there's no bending moment at all. That's why
we
> can get away with the 3-piece wing with no change to the struts. Do the
> stress analysis--it's interesting and straight out of Freshman Physics.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
"Pietenpol-List(at)Matronics.Com"
| Subject: | RE: powder coating near aero country???? |
Jim,
Call my buddy Jerry at 214 361 0411. He is also CC'd on this email so you
can email him direct. Ask him about the powder coating. I would get the
set up from www.eastwoodcompany.com for 129.99 for the multitude of small
parts that you can fit in your oven in the kitchen. Just take the big parts
like wing struts and motor mount to the place to have them done. Ask Jerry
about which coating type is most resistant to chipping because some are
really brittle.
You are best to also build a small sandblasting cabinet. Back issues of the
EAA Chapter 25 (of which I am long time treasurer are available at
www.eaa25.com . Bring up the page and click on the big EAA chapter 25 logo
on the left side of the page. This will bring up a page that you can click
on the news tab along the left side. This will bring up the matrix of all
the back issues available. Start with June of 1999. Go to the "Blast It!"
article. The series runs every other issue for about 10 installments
although I never did the final installment {:(
I also have an article on powdercoating using the eastwood set up on the old
grant maclaren BPA web page. You can still find this at
http://members.aol.com/bpabpabpa/powder.html
The powders available from eastwood seem to be a little soft (no chipping)
and work well for our application. Dale Johnson/Greg Cardinal have done all
the parts for their piet using the eastwood powders. If you are willing to
either buy or borrow an infrared heater that uses the propane (jerry has
one), you can even do the big parts yourself but you really need to be able
to sandblast all the parts before the powdercoating.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: jim_markle(at)mindspring.com [mailto:jim_markle(at)mindspring.com]
Subject: powder coating near aero country????
Hi Chris,
Seems like I remember a note from you a year or so ago about a place where
you
used to have powder coating done (maybe a place that did lawn furniture?)
near
your hanger (Aero Country I'm assuming....)
I'm trying to calculate costs and determine if I want to go the DIY route
myself or pay someone to do it......
Anyway, do you happen to remember the name of the place?
Thanks and I hope you're staying warm up in that COLD country!
Jim in Plano
NX25JM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List angle of incidence |
By definition, the line of reference is the thrust line of the engine
although this has fallen out of favor because people like to change the
thrust line. This opens up a can of worms.
chris bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List angle of incidence
The straight line from leading edge to trailing edge is the wing chord. AOI
(angle of incidence) is the angle between the chord line and some
longitudinal reference line which on the Piet/GN-1 is usually the centerline
parallel to, and even with, the top longerons.
11/19/02 16:58, DJ Vegh at aircamper(at)imagedv.com wrote:
>
> it has always been my umderstanding that the AOI is from trailing edge to
> center radius of the LE and not the flat of the airfoil.
>
> DJ
> www.raptoronline.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
Years ago I did a simple stress analysis of the three piece wing. What I
found was that with the lift struts at almost the exact center of the wing
panels, they carried virtually all the lift loads. The vertical loads at
the bolts that attach the outer panels to the centersection are about 6 lbs
each. Of course, the spanwise loads are quite large, tending to push the
outer panels into the centersection. I agree with Gene, the loads in the
center of the centersection are pretty small, but if I built a one oiece
wing I would still orient the scarf joint as shown in AC 43.13. The fact
that BHP was able to get away with his original joints indicates how low the
loading is in that portion of the spar.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Holcomb
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: one piece wing
I disagree with your statement about no bending moment at the centerline.
If you will, imagine the left wing wanting to rotate around the left cabane,
and the right wing wanting to rotate around the right cabane. Now sketch
out an exagerated version of it and you will notice that a lot of curvature
will be required to connect the lines for the left and right sides. If that
deformation is constrained a moment will result. The one piece wing
obviously constrains that.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | FW: powder coating near aero country airport, Mckinney, |
Texas
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Holzsweig [mailto:jerholz(at)earthlink.net]
Pietenpol-List(at)Matronics.Com
Subject: Re: powder coating near aero country????
Hi,
The guy I used on my Pitts and Cub fuselages is Steve Martz. He is
located on Sovereign Row (near 183 and regal row) in Dallas. He has two
company names; Chair Care and Custom Powder Coat. He has a couple of ovens
large enough to do a Stearman fuselage (6' X 6'X 22'). He will take things
to Able Sandblasting and then bring them back to his shop and powdercoat
them immediately. If they are oily or have a lot of old paint on them, he'll
cook them in his oven to loosen things up first (before sandblasting). He
just passes Able's cost on, without marking it up. He (and Able) have done
a lot of airplane frames.
There are two kinds of powder. I can't remember what the one he used
was, but the epoxy one is the one not to use (too brittle). I have no chips
on my Pitts fuselage after seven years. Stitts (I mean Poly Fiber) Aerothane
sticks to it like "shit to a blanket."
I don't think that curing with a propane heater is a good idea. I think
it's important to have good control over the temperature (about 400 degrees,
if I remember correctly) and time at that temperature (variable on mass of
the part).
I have two phone numbers for Steve. They are 214-638-6416 (Chair Care)
and 214-492-0400(Custom Powder Coat). I highly recommend him. If you'd like
to see my Pitts or some misc cub parts at Aero Country (the Cub fuselage is
15 feet in the air hanging from the rafters), give me a call.
Jerry
972-342-4179 (cell phone)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: one piece wing |
I agree with almost everyone else one this wing splice. Use the method in
the 43.13 it is much stronger than that shown on the plans. I have also seen
the building manual and it says to use the 43.13 method. Just remember in
the 30's not a lot of information was available about aircraft construction,
I don't even think the old CAM 18 manuals were around, which was the
equivalent of the today's 43.13. Pietenpol was a brilliant eyeball engineer,
who had a moderate education, in my opinion his plans leave a lot to be
desired for the novice builder.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hardaway <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List angle of incidence |
Christian Bobka wrote:
> By definition, the line of reference is the thrust line of the engine
> although this has fallen out of favor because people like to change the
> thrust line. This opens up a can of worms.
Chris,
Could you direct me to the source of that definition?
Mike Hardaway
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List angle of incidence |
Charles Hampson Grant - Model Airplane Design and Theory of Free Flight -
see pages 132-134 for discussion. This book is awesome and goes hand in
hand with the pietenpol design. CHS is the patent holder of the tailless
delta, the variable cambered wing, the slotted flap, etc. He built an
airplane and taught himself to fly as a teenager in 1909. Then he went to
Princeton (BS Civil Engineering)and MIT (graduate of the School of Military
Aviation) and then worked at Wright Field as Aerodynamics Engineer from WWI
to late twenties. He was a proponent of testing theories using model
aircraft that are identical except for minute changes that he could use to
good advantage to obtain data about their effects to flight characteristics.
Ultimately he taught the WWII generation of pilots their aerodynamics by
being editor of Model Airplane News for about 25 years starting in the early
thirties.
Chris Bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike
Hardaway
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List angle of incidence
Christian Bobka wrote:
> By definition, the line of reference is the thrust line of the engine
> although this has fallen out of favor because people like to change the
> thrust line. This opens up a can of worms.
Chris,
Could you direct me to the source of that definition?
Mike Hardaway
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 11/22/02 5:39:26 PM Central Standard Time,
gomerair(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< What thickness aluminum are you guys using for the front turtle deck? >>
Chris, I used .025" 2024 sheet, for my cowling, and front 'buterfly type'
cockpit cover.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Fund Raiser Free Gift Shipping Status... |
Dear Listers,
A couple of people have written asking what the shipping status was of
their free List Contribution Gifts. Seemed like some status was in order
and I thought I detail where we're at...
Flight Bag Requests
-------------------
On 11/20/02 I shipped out the first batch of Flight Bag-Only (FBO) gift
requests. I shipped all FBO gift requests I had received from 11/1 to
11/19 except for 3 (Sorry guys!) - I ran out of my first shipment flight
bags! Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com
) is supplying me with another batch flight bags which should arrive in
about 2 weeks.
By the way, these are REALLY nice Flight Bags. Extremely well built and
very professional looking. Folds down into a very small size, but will
hold a huge amount of stuff. If you fly, and you've got a lot of stuff,
they you WANT one of these guys. Surf over to the List Contribution page
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The Flight Bags have been shipped out US Mail Parcel Post in a large, and I
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Archive CDROM Requests
----------------------
The Archive CDROMs will be mastered and burned on or about December 1 and
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Flight Bag and Archive CDROM Requests
-------------------------------------
These combination orders will ship out when the Archive CDROMs are complete
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Again, I want to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore for providing
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
"Pietenpol-List(at)Matronics.Com"
| Subject: | RE: Sandblast cabinet |
Dennis,
It must be a problem with your browser. After the July issue, we started
with a new way to store the info and it apparently is not working for you.
It works for me as I printed out a copy of all the articles so that I can
send out photocopies to those that want it. You really want to make one of
these blasters guys.
I will send out copies with large, readable drawings for an 8.00 tax
deductible donation to EAA CHapter 25. Make the check payable to EAA
Chapter 25. I will even write the final installment!!!
Email me for my mailing address at bobka(at)charter.net.
chris bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Engelkenjohn [mailto:wingding(at)usmo.com]
Subject: Sandblast cabinet
Hi Christian:
I went to your EAA chapter 25 site, but could not open any of the
issues after july. Keep getting the loud "boing" and a box opens saying
couldn't load acrobat plug ins and then another that says it committed an
error, then it just closes down.
What I did see, the cutting diagram for the plywood looked like what I
am wanting to sandblast my piet parts. Is there anywhere else on the net
where the plans are? Has this ever been in Sport Aviation, or better yet,
Experimenter?
Has any other EAA chapter used your plans? I am a member of EAA Chapter
32 in St.Louis, MO. and was hoping someone there might have a copy if
possible.
Lastly, would you sell me a photocopy of the plans?
By the way, are you building a Piet, and if so what kind, Model A,
Corvair, or Continental powered? and if building, at what stage are you?
Dennis Engelkenjohn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Part I of Sandblaster Articles |
Blast It
JUNE '99, By Chris Bobka
I built a dandy sandblaster about ten years ago that has given me
trouble free service for a minimum outlay of money, considering the
performance of the unit. Three of the components will take up the lions
share of the cost of the setup. If you are serious about building a
sandblasting rig, then you probably already have an air compressor with good
moisture control.
Another costly component is the "gun" which I will talk about more
later. Finally, you will also need a big shop vacuum like the ones from
Sears you always see on sale.
The rest of the stuff needed are a few sheets of 3/4" exterior plywood,
a couple of two by fours, your scrap lumber bin and hardware bucket, a bunch
of drywall or deck screws in various lengths, a couple of tubes of caulk and
Liquid Nails, some used casters, a couple of hinges, a pair of rubber
gloves, an extra left hand rubber glove (the right hand always gets a hole
in it for us righties- lefties will need an extra right hand glove-either
way it is the one that does not go bad on you so you will always have one
lying around), a yard of remnant vinyl like the kind you would use on a seat
cushion, some 1/4" steel mesh screen about two feet by four feet, a piece of
screen the size of your viewing window like the stuff you have on your
screen door, a piece of 1/2" electrical conduit, and a trunk latch mechanism
from Menard's. Oh, you will need to get a piece of tempered safety glass
made up for the window at a glass place but it is not too expensive, maybe
15 to 20 dollars.
Tools required are a circular saw, sabre saw, a drill with a tip to
screw in the screws, a couple of typically sized drill bits, a hole saw of
the same diameter as your vacuum hose, and some typical measuring tools,
straightedges, pencils. You will need to access a sewing machine for a few
minutes to sew the gloves to the sleeves you will make from the vinyl. You
will also need to have about three minutes of welding done on the conduit or
you could bring the pieces to me and I will do it for you.
I once drooled over the metal cabinet style sandblasting booths that I
saw for sale in the TIP catalog that I sent for out of a Hemmings
advertisement. But I drool no more. As a matter of fact, I let TIP drool
over my booth. My old flight instructor (he was certificated in 1926) once
told me that if you have a good wood hangar, it will absorb so much moisture
from the air that you could spray dope on a rainy day without the dope
blushing. The downside is that the wooden hangars burn real easy,
especially with the dope fumes in them, and all the smokers smoke inside
because of the rain. Anyway, I do know that the metal cabinets tend to
allow the condensation of water with temperature changes in the air just
like it messes with airplane fuel tanks if you leave them empty of fuel.
Moisture is the bane of all sand-blasters. It must be kept out of the air
and the sand, otherwise you will get constant clogging which will cause you
to repeatedly curse (and clean) the thing out. Imagine throwing cooked rice
at a wedding instead of uncooked rice. That is what the difference is. Ten
years ago, I chose to make my cabinet out of wood to take advantage of its
hydroscopic properties. I believe that it is the big reason why it works so
well for I have never had a clogging problem in all the years I have used
it. Professional A&P Mechanics that have used my unit have sung its
praises, some swearing it is the best unit they have ever used.
My intention is to publish a series of articles in the Chapter
newsletter over the next few months detailing the design and construction of
a sandblasting box that will measure about four feet wide, two feet deep,
and two feet high. The entire unit will be much bigger for it will have
legs, a hopper for the sand, a light fixture on top, etc. Of course, once
you see the thing on paper, you may decide to make yours bigger, or smaller,
or otherwise incorporate (and share in this newsletter) your own ideas.
Either way, you will find life intolerable if you ever will have to part
with your sandblaster.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Sandblast cabinet |
Hi Dennis. You may need to get a newer version of Adobe Acrobat Reader,
which is version 5. It is free from Adobe at:
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html
Scroll down to the bottom and select the appropriate dropdowns for your
computer. Download and install. Now you're ready to read the latest Adobe
PDF files. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
-Gary McNeel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Christian
> Bobka
> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 7:36 PM
> To: Dennis Engelkenjohn; Pietenpol-List(at)Matronics.Com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Sandblast cabinet
>
>
>
>
> Dennis,
>
> It must be a problem with your browser. After the July issue, we started
> with a new way to store the info and it apparently is not working for you.
> It works for me as I printed out a copy of all the articles so that I can
> send out photocopies to those that want it. You really want to
> make one of
> these blasters guys.
>
> I will send out copies with large, readable drawings for an 8.00 tax
> deductible donation to EAA CHapter 25. Make the check payable to EAA
> Chapter 25. I will even write the final installment!!!
>
> Email me for my mailing address at bobka(at)charter.net.
>
> chris bobka
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis Engelkenjohn [mailto:wingding(at)usmo.com]
> To: bobka(at)charter.net
> Subject: Sandblast cabinet
>
>
> Hi Christian:
>
> I went to your EAA chapter 25 site, but could not open any of the
> issues after july. Keep getting the loud "boing" and a box opens saying
> couldn't load acrobat plug ins and then another that says it committed an
> error, then it just closes down.
> What I did see, the cutting diagram for the plywood looked
> like what I
> am wanting to sandblast my piet parts. Is there anywhere else on the net
> where the plans are? Has this ever been in Sport Aviation, or better yet,
> Experimenter?
> Has any other EAA chapter used your plans? I am a member of
> EAA Chapter
> 32 in St.Louis, MO. and was hoping someone there might have a copy if
> possible.
> Lastly, would you sell me a photocopy of the plans?
> By the way, are you building a Piet, and if so what kind, Model A,
> Corvair, or Continental powered? and if building, at what stage are you?
> Dennis Engelkenjohn
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Sandblast cabinet |
Regarding plans for a sandblasting cabinet, I built a nice one using 1/2"
particle board. It really wasn't designed to last forever but it's nice
enough. I've used it extensively when restoring my Model A and was able to
get large parts in it, like the spoke wheels. I spent maybe $90 including
the piano hinge and plexiglass. By the way, plexiglass and glass both
become opaque after about the same amount of time and I found it easier to
work with plexiglass so that's what I used. Also, I eventually bought one
of those $100 pressure pot sandblasters and it works MUCH better than the
siphon type. The Chinese nozzles wear out pretty fast, on both types, so
it's important to figure out where you are going to get replacements. In a
pinch, I had a buddy turn one out of steel, it didn't last much longer. I
just keep the pressure down to 40psi and that seems to decrease the wear a
bit.
I have plans for the thing including a cutting arrangement for the particle
board on http://roberthaines.tripod.com
(I knew drawing those things on CAD would be helpful for someone someday)
Robert Haines
Du Quoin, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | All New List FAQs! |
Dear Listers,
I got to looking at the Email List FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) today
and realized that they where miserably out of date. I spent a wad of time
today completely revising them and adding in documentation on all of the
many new features such as the List Browse and Photoshare. Many of the
little-known features are documented in there now, too, so even if you're a
seasoned List veteran, you might want to give it a read. Never know what
you might discover.
At the bottom of this message in the Trailer you will find a new link item
called "List FAQ" with a URL for this specific List. Just click on it and
print it out or read it online.
Don't forget that November is the List Fund Raiser month! The "2002 List
of Contributors" is just days away and I know you'll want to make sure your
name is on it!! Please make your Contribution today to support the
continued operation of these List Services!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Sandblast cabinet |
Chris,
I had the same problem, even using Adobe 5.05. I even tried downloading
and wasn't able to.
I did manage to have a look at a few earlier issues, very good copy!!
Cheers
Peter.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Christian Bobka
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Sandblast cabinet
Dennis,
It must be a problem with your browser. After the July issue, we
started
with a new way to store the info and it apparently is not working for
you.
It works for me as I printed out a copy of all the articles so that I
can
send out photocopies to those that want it. You really want to make one
of
these blasters guys.
I will send out copies with large, readable drawings for an 8.00 tax
deductible donation to EAA CHapter 25. Make the check payable to EAA
Chapter 25. I will even write the final installment!!!
Email me for my mailing address at bobka(at)charter.net.
chris bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Engelkenjohn [mailto:wingding(at)usmo.com]
Subject: Sandblast cabinet
Hi Christian:
I went to your EAA chapter 25 site, but could not open any of the
issues after july. Keep getting the loud "boing" and a box opens saying
couldn't load acrobat plug ins and then another that says it committed
an
error, then it just closes down.
What I did see, the cutting diagram for the plywood looked like
what I
am wanting to sandblast my piet parts. Is there anywhere else on the net
where the plans are? Has this ever been in Sport Aviation, or better
yet,
Experimenter?
Has any other EAA chapter used your plans? I am a member of EAA
Chapter
32 in St.Louis, MO. and was hoping someone there might have a copy if
possible.
Lastly, would you sell me a photocopy of the plans?
By the way, are you building a Piet, and if so what kind, Model A,
Corvair, or Continental powered? and if building, at what stage are you?
Dennis Engelkenjohn
==
Contribution
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)yahoo.com> |
"'Dennis Engelkenjohn'"
| Subject: | RE: Sandblast cabinet |
Chris,
I had the same problem, even using Adobe 5.05. I even tried downloading
and wasn't able to.
I did manage to have a look at a few earlier issues, very good copy!!
Cheers
Peter.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Christian Bobka
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Sandblast cabinet
Dennis,
It must be a problem with your browser. After the July issue, we
started
with a new way to store the info and it apparently is not working for
you.
It works for me as I printed out a copy of all the articles so that I
can
send out photocopies to those that want it. You really want to make one
of
these blasters guys.
I will send out copies with large, readable drawings for an 8.00 tax
deductible donation to EAA CHapter 25. Make the check payable to EAA
Chapter 25. I will even write the final installment!!!
Email me for my mailing address at bobka(at)charter.net.
chris bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Engelkenjohn [mailto:wingding(at)usmo.com]
Subject: Sandblast cabinet
Hi Christian:
I went to your EAA chapter 25 site, but could not open any of the
issues after july. Keep getting the loud "boing" and a box opens saying
couldn't load acrobat plug ins and then another that says it committed
an
error, then it just closes down.
What I did see, the cutting diagram for the plywood looked like
what I
am wanting to sandblast my piet parts. Is there anywhere else on the net
where the plans are? Has this ever been in Sport Aviation, or better
yet,
Experimenter?
Has any other EAA chapter used your plans? I am a member of EAA
Chapter
32 in St.Louis, MO. and was hoping someone there might have a copy if
possible.
Lastly, would you sell me a photocopy of the plans?
By the way, are you building a Piet, and if so what kind, Model A,
Corvair, or Continental powered? and if building, at what stage are you?
Dennis Engelkenjohn
==
Contribution
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Keeping building costs down |
One of the advantages of the Pietenpol List is the interchange of
information about how to keep costs of steel tubing and other aircraft
hardware (bolts, cable, pulleys, etc.) to the minimum.
In the February 1995 issue of EAA's Sport Aviation magazine, Budd Davisson
wrote an article titled "What Happened to the Chickens?" which is all about
Dillsburg Aero Works located in Dillsburg PA. It is an open secret among
many airplane builders that the best selection and the best prices and the
best delivery often come from Dillsburg.
You can download the actual Sport Aviation article, complete with color
photos, at www.dillsburg aero, thanks to Budd Davisson. the
author. Charlie Vogelsong, the owner and boss at Dillsburg Aero says "Our
advertising budget is exactly $15 a month for a listing in the classified
of Sport Aviation, but, right now, we have 10,000 active accounts we are
serving listed in the computer. They are all over the world and all came
in via word of mouth."
Dillsburg's ad in Sport Aviation classified under "Miscellaneous" says
"Map/price list: 3 stamps. The Dillsburg Aero Works, 114 Sawmill Rd.,
Dillsburg, PA 17019, 717/432-4589"
This is not a recommendation as such. It is simply a building tip among
Piet builders.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Sandblast cabinet |
Peter,
Talk to Dennis E. He apparently figured out how to get it to work.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter W
Johnson
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: RE: Sandblast cabinet
Chris,
I had the same problem, even using Adobe 5.05. I even tried downloading
and wasn't able to.
I did manage to have a look at a few earlier issues, very good copy!!
Cheers
Peter.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Christian Bobka
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Sandblast cabinet
Dennis,
It must be a problem with your browser. After the July issue, we
started
with a new way to store the info and it apparently is not working for
you.
It works for me as I printed out a copy of all the articles so that I
can
send out photocopies to those that want it. You really want to make one
of
these blasters guys.
I will send out copies with large, readable drawings for an 8.00 tax
deductible donation to EAA CHapter 25. Make the check payable to EAA
Chapter 25. I will even write the final installment!!!
Email me for my mailing address at bobka(at)charter.net.
chris bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Engelkenjohn [mailto:wingding(at)usmo.com]
Subject: Sandblast cabinet
Hi Christian:
I went to your EAA chapter 25 site, but could not open any of the
issues after july. Keep getting the loud "boing" and a box opens saying
couldn't load acrobat plug ins and then another that says it committed
an
error, then it just closes down.
What I did see, the cutting diagram for the plywood looked like
what I
am wanting to sandblast my piet parts. Is there anywhere else on the net
where the plans are? Has this ever been in Sport Aviation, or better
yet,
Experimenter?
Has any other EAA chapter used your plans? I am a member of EAA
Chapter
32 in St.Louis, MO. and was hoping someone there might have a copy if
possible.
Lastly, would you sell me a photocopy of the plans?
By the way, are you building a Piet, and if so what kind, Model A,
Corvair, or Continental powered? and if building, at what stage are you?
Dennis Engelkenjohn
==
Contribution
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle"<jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Do you have a copy of the MacLaren video??? |
The Model 'A' Ford Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
. . . a VHS videotape
SOLD OUT!
SOLD OUT!
SOLD OUT!
(No more videos available from Grant MacLaren.)
Grant MacLaren, editor of the Buckeye Pietenpol Association Newsletter, has
produced a video tape describing the Model 'A' Ford Powered Pietenpol.
The video originated in the late 1980's -- during Howard Henderson's building
of his award-winning Air Camper. Grant documented every step of Howard's work
and the results have been shown to many groups in the form of slides and
artifacts.
(Interesting that Howard's plane is now for sale....jm)
I've received permission from Grant to make a copy of the above mentioned
tape...if I can find one!
Do you or anyone you know have an original or copy? If so, I would gladly
send you a postage prepaid mailer if you would allow me to make a copy and
return it to you. If you feel that a reasonable fee for this service would be
in order, let me know.
So basiclly, all you have to do is send me the tape in the prepaid box I send
you and I'll return the tape asap.
Thanks!
Jim in Plano, TX
enjoying the heck out of my new metal cutting horiz/vertical band saw and
bench grinder.....several pieces of 4130 are now spar straps, brace wire tabs,
etc......also picked up that 90 degree vise brake thingy Dennis E. mentioned
on the list not long ago. rounded the point on the male side and it works
like a charm!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Do you have a copy of the MacLaren video??? |
Jim,
I think I have a copy of Grant's video. I moved from
Dallas to Carrollton and it is one of the unpacked
boxes in the garage.
I will look for it and if found, you are welcome to
use it.
Although I had already bought my GN-1 and
was flying it when I learned of the tape, I bought
it to learn more about the basic design.
I know the PIET and GN-1 are different but I found
the tape informative and entertaining.
Give me a call anytime at 214 905-9299.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas, Texas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Do you have a copy of the MacLaren video???
Markle"
The Model 'A' Ford Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
. . . a VHS videotape
SOLD OUT!
SOLD OUT!
SOLD OUT!
(No more videos available from Grant MacLaren.)
Grant MacLaren, editor of the Buckeye Pietenpol Association Newsletter, has
produced a video tape describing the Model 'A' Ford Powered Pietenpol.
The video originated in the late 1980's -- during Howard Henderson's
building
of his award-winning Air Camper. Grant documented every step of Howard's
work
and the results have been shown to many groups in the form of slides and
artifacts.
(Interesting that Howard's plane is now for sale....jm)
I've received permission from Grant to make a copy of the above mentioned
tape...if I can find one!
Do you or anyone you know have an original or copy? If so, I would gladly
send you a postage prepaid mailer if you would allow me to make a copy and
return it to you. If you feel that a reasonable fee for this service would
be
in order, let me know.
So basiclly, all you have to do is send me the tape in the prepaid box I
send
you and I'll return the tape asap.
Thanks!
Jim in Plano, TX
enjoying the heck out of my new metal cutting horiz/vertical band saw and
bench grinder.....several pieces of 4130 are now spar straps, brace wire
tabs,
etc......also picked up that 90 degree vise brake thingy Dennis E. mentioned
on the list not long ago. rounded the point on the male side and it works
like a charm!
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Do you have a copy of the MacLaren |
video???
Jim,
I have a copy of this tape. I'll be more than happy to let you copy
it.
Send the mailer to:
Greg Cardinal
5236 Shoreview Ave. So.
Minneapolis, MN 55417
>>> jim_markle(at)mindspring.com 11/25/02 11:23AM >>>
Markle"
The Model 'A' Ford Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
. . . a VHS videotape
SOLD OUT!
SOLD OUT!
SOLD OUT!
(No more videos available from Grant MacLaren.)
Grant MacLaren, editor of the Buckeye Pietenpol Association Newsletter,
has
produced a video tape describing the Model 'A' Ford Powered Pietenpol.
The video originated in the late 1980's -- during Howard Henderson's
building
of his award-winning Air Camper. Grant documented every step of
Howard's work
and the results have been shown to many groups in the form of slides
and
artifacts.
(Interesting that Howard's plane is now for sale....jm)
I've received permission from Grant to make a copy of the above
mentioned
tape...if I can find one!
Do you or anyone you know have an original or copy? If so, I would
gladly
send you a postage prepaid mailer if you would allow me to make a copy
and
return it to you. If you feel that a reasonable fee for this service
would be
in order, let me know.
So basiclly, all you have to do is send me the tape in the prepaid box
I send
you and I'll return the tape asap.
Thanks!
Jim in Plano, TX
enjoying the heck out of my new metal cutting horiz/vertical band saw
and
bench grinder.....several pieces of 4130 are now spar straps, brace
wire tabs,
etc......also picked up that 90 degree vise brake thingy Dennis E.
mentioned
on the list not long ago. rounded the point on the male side and it
works
like a charm!
Contribution
Gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Do you have a copy of the MacLaren video??? |
Jim,
Maybe it is easier for you to get the video from Mike King rather than Greg?
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael
King
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Do you have a copy of the MacLaren video???
Jim,
I think I have a copy of Grant's video. I moved from
Dallas to Carrollton and it is one of the unpacked
boxes in the garage.
I will look for it and if found, you are welcome to
use it.
Although I had already bought my GN-1 and
was flying it when I learned of the tape, I bought
it to learn more about the basic design.
I know the PIET and GN-1 are different but I found
the tape informative and entertaining.
Give me a call anytime at 214 905-9299.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas, Texas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Do you have a copy of the MacLaren video???
Markle"
The Model 'A' Ford Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
. . . a VHS videotape
SOLD OUT!
SOLD OUT!
SOLD OUT!
(No more videos available from Grant MacLaren.)
Grant MacLaren, editor of the Buckeye Pietenpol Association Newsletter, has
produced a video tape describing the Model 'A' Ford Powered Pietenpol.
The video originated in the late 1980's -- during Howard Henderson's
building
of his award-winning Air Camper. Grant documented every step of Howard's
work
and the results have been shown to many groups in the form of slides and
artifacts.
(Interesting that Howard's plane is now for sale....jm)
I've received permission from Grant to make a copy of the above mentioned
tape...if I can find one!
Do you or anyone you know have an original or copy? If so, I would gladly
send you a postage prepaid mailer if you would allow me to make a copy and
return it to you. If you feel that a reasonable fee for this service would
be
in order, let me know.
So basiclly, all you have to do is send me the tape in the prepaid box I
send
you and I'll return the tape asap.
Thanks!
Jim in Plano, TX
enjoying the heck out of my new metal cutting horiz/vertical band saw and
bench grinder.....several pieces of 4130 are now spar straps, brace wire
tabs,
etc......also picked up that 90 degree vise brake thingy Dennis E. mentioned
on the list not long ago. rounded the point on the male side and it works
like a charm!
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Ed G.) |
Hi Gang....Since the plans show no details of the rudder cables I
assumed that they run from the rudder bar through the seat back directly
to the rudder horn. I drilled the holes in the seat back and ran a
string line, then realized I have never noticed the cables running
through the rear pit in any of the few live Piets that I have seen. Is
this the way most rudder cables are run or are most run under the seat
to a set of pulleys?????
Thanks in advance and have a great Thanksgiving. Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder cables |
Hey Ed,
No pulleys. Direct from rudder bar to rudder horn. Dale and I ran our
inside 1/4 inch flexible teflon tubing to act as a continuous fairlead.
Very smooth.
Greg Cardinal, Minneapolis
>>> flyboy_120(at)webtv.net 11/25/02 01:11PM >>>
Hi Gang....Since the plans show no details of the rudder cables I
assumed that they run from the rudder bar through the seat back
directly
to the rudder horn. I drilled the holes in the seat back and ran a
string line, then realized I have never noticed the cables running
through the rear pit in any of the few live Piets that I have seen. Is
this the way most rudder cables are run or are most run under the seat
to a set of pulleys?????
Thanks in advance and have a great Thanksgiving. Ed
Contribution
Gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Ed G.) |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder cables |
Great, thanks Greg...It can't get any simpler than that!! Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John_Duprey(at)vmed.org |
11/25/2002 02:54:57 PM
Due to my Mothers stroke I have not worked on my Pietenpol Project in well
over a year. I am ready to dive back into work now. Does anybody know If
T-88 has a shelf life, if so what it might be I had just bought a Quart
each of the A & B, befor I stopped working.
Thanks
John Duprey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com> |
As far as I am aware, it does not. If it starts to go cloudy, placing the
container in warm water for about 30 minutes clears it up and makes it
easier to work with.
Ken Rickards
-----Original Message-----
From: John_Duprey(at)vmed.org [mailto:John_Duprey(at)vmed.org]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 ?
Due to my Mothers stroke I have not worked on my Pietenpol Project in well
over a year. I am ready to dive back into work now. Does anybody know If
T-88 has a shelf life, if so what it might be I had just bought a Quart
each of the A & B, befor I stopped working.
Thanks
John Duprey
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
John,
The technical data sheet says System Three T-88 will have a storage life
in excess of one year if containers are kept well closed and stored below 90
degrees F.
Kent Hallsten
Oklahoma City
Does
> anybody know If
> T-88 has a shelf life, if so what it might be I had just
> bought a Quart
> each of the A & B, befor I stopped working.
>
> Thanks
> John Duprey
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
According to the manufacturer, T-88 has an indefinate shelf life.
Greg Cardinal
>>> John_Duprey(at)vmed.org 11/25/02 01:54PM >>>
Due to my Mothers stroke I have not worked on my Pietenpol Project in
well
over a year. I am ready to dive back into work now. Does anybody know
If
T-88 has a shelf life, if so what it might be I had just bought a
Quart
each of the A & B, befor I stopped working.
Thanks
John Duprey
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
110 hp Corvair engine on e-bay (Item # 1873323704) in Oregon.
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
I've been wondering the same thing. I have a quart set that I bought a year ago
and have kept in the refridgerator ever since.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Cardinal
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 ?
According to the manufacturer, T-88 has an indefinate shelf life.
Greg Cardinal
>>> John_Duprey(at)vmed.org 11/25/02 01:54PM >>>
Due to my Mothers stroke I have not worked on my Pietenpol Project in
well
over a year. I am ready to dive back into work now. Does anybody know
If
T-88 has a shelf life, if so what it might be I had just bought a
Quart
each of the A & B, befor I stopped working.
Thanks
John Duprey
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sanders, Andrew P" <andrew.p.sanders(at)boeing.com> |
| Subject: | Piet Fuselage Weight |
Has anyone built a Piet with a 4130 tube fuselage? If so, how did it's
weight compare with a wood version?
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen5819(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet Fuselage Weight |
Sanders, Andrew P, asked:
> Has anyone built a Piet with a 4130 tube fuselage? If so, how did it's
> weight compare with a wood version?
Not yet, but it's on my list, mostly because I enjoy welding
and can use the practice. My understanding is that it comes out
somewhat lighter than wood, but I don't have hard numbers.
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet Fuselage Weight |
All I can help with is the weight of our fuselage uncovered and
without any fittings or controls (and without firewall). It was right
around 70 lbs (+/- a few pounds as it was a bathroom scale)
Kirk
>
>
>Has anyone built a Piet with a 4130 tube fuselage? If so, how did it's
>weight compare with a wood version?
>
>Andrew
>
>
--
Kirk Huizenga and Bryan Eastep's Aircamper and Corvair Project
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList.cfm?Menu=PhotoGallery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
There are only a few days left until the November List of Contributors. I
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
HI Ed,
I used pulleys on mine. Ran the cables under the rear seat but then
installed pulleys just behind the rear seat, with fairleads at the point
where the bellcrank attaches to the fuselage. The reason was to get the
rudder cables above the elevator cables to avoid chafing (a common problem).
See if your cables will chafe against the elevator cables befor deciding how
to route them.
Jack
Hi Gang....Since the plans show no details of the rudder cables I
assumed that they run from the rudder bar through the seat back directly
to the rudder horn. I drilled the holes in the seat back and ran a
string line, then realized I have never noticed the cables running
through the rear pit in any of the few live Piets that I have seen. Is
this the way most rudder cables are run or are most run under the seat
to a set of pulleys?????
Thanks in advance and have a great Thanksgiving. Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
John,
Make some test's with your T-88. Glue some scraps of wood together, let them
cure, and break them. You should get about 90% wood breakage and less than
10% glue breakage.
I have had 2 sets of T-88 go bad over the years, first entry in my Piet log
1990. Both times heating would make the glue runny and clear again, but it
would still fail the test.
If you haven't broken the seal on the T-88, I think you have a better chance
it will pass the test.
Skip
> Does anybody know If
>T-88 has a shelf life, if so what it might be I had just bought a Quart
>each of the A & B, befor I stopped working.
>John Duprey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com> |
| Subject: | 4130 tube fuselage |
From: "Sanders, Andrew P" <andrew.p.sanders(at)boeing.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Fuselage Weight
Has anyone built a Piet with a 4130 tube fuselage? If so, how did it's
weight compare with a wood version?
Andrew
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Andrew,
I am in the middle of building a ship with a 4130 tube fuselage - it
reportedly should save 35 pounds. I'll warn you though, if you're prone to
be one of those that can't interpret the prints or do some designing, you're
in for a real headache. The prints were definitely not made for that
modification and just simply mounting things (throttle quadrants, seatbelt
anchors and the list seems endless) becomes quite and exercise. There's no
gluing a pad and screwing to it or bolting through it.
I really think I could build a wooden one much quicker. But hey - this is
supposed to be for enjoyment and education and I've certainly gained both!
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Rudder cable fairlead |
Hi Greg: Is the 1/4" teflon tubing a hardware store item? automotive? My
Ace Hardware just has nylon tubing and rubber hose. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder cable fairlead |
Leon,
It's doubtful you will find this at the local hardware store. You'll
have better luck at surplus places, industrial supply houses, or when
all else fails, McMaster-Carr. Their part number is 5239K13 and the
price as listed in catalog number 105 is $1.28 per foot. They can be
contacted at 630 833-0300.
Or check out www.mcmaster.com
Greg Cardinal
>>> lshutks(at)webtv.net 11/26/02 08:35AM >>>
Hi Greg: Is the 1/4" teflon tubing a hardware store item? automotive?
My
Ace Hardware just has nylon tubing and rubber hose. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"Fishnet"
| Subject: | best angle of climb vs. best rate of climb |
Need some help from the already flying guys.........
The more I think of this the more it eludes me.
When I first saw Mike Cuy's video of laying the smoke screen, it didn't seem real
how quick he was climbing. Now I see it's really so!
I pull the plane back to 55 mph and I get an amazing 700fpm climb, I go up like
an elevator. (just had to throw that in).
Now I guess if you pull back farther, you will climb at a slower rate, BUT at a
steeper angle to clear trees at the end of the runway. Now how do you calculate
this? Do you look down and time how far over the ground you go? Or how
long to get to the end of the runway? You can't simply use a stopwatch and time
how long it takes to get to a certain altitude at each speed, cause this is
doing the same as your "rate of climb"
Help me here.
walt
NX140DL
(north N.J.)
ps still smiling, smiling, smiling!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: best angle of climb vs. best rate of climb |
There's definatley a more precise way to get the number you're looking for,
but if you already know your best glide speed you can take that figure and
multiply by 10% then subtract that amount from best glide speed.
example... Vbg 50mph x 10% = 5
5 - 50 = 45mph
Vx = approx 45mph
this is the quick and dirty way but will get you close.
DJ Vegh
www.raptoronline.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: best angle of climb vs. best rate of climb
>
> Need some help from the already flying guys.........
> The more I think of this the more it eludes me.
> When I first saw Mike Cuy's video of laying the smoke screen, it didn't
seem real how quick he was climbing. Now I see it's really so!
> I pull the plane back to 55 mph and I get an amazing 700fpm climb, I go up
like an elevator. (just had to throw that in).
> Now I guess if you pull back farther, you will climb at a slower rate, BUT
at a steeper angle to clear trees at the end of the runway. Now how do you
calculate this? Do you look down and time how far over the ground you go?
Or how long to get to the end of the runway? You can't simply use a
stopwatch and time how long it takes to get to a certain altitude at each
speed, cause this is doing the same as your "rate of climb"
> Help me here.
> walt
> NX140DL
> (north N.J.)
> ps still smiling, smiling, smiling!
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: best angle of climb vs. best rate of climb |
DJ,
this is the way to get best CLIMB angle?
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: best angle of climb vs. best rate of climb
>
> There's definatley a more precise way to get the number you're looking
for,
> but if you already know your best glide speed you can take that figure and
> multiply by 10% then subtract that amount from best glide speed.
>
> example... Vbg 50mph x 10% = 5
> 5 - 50 = 45mph
> Vx = approx 45mph
>
> this is the quick and dirty way but will get you close.
>
> DJ Vegh
> www.raptoronline.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To: "piet discussion" ; "Fishnet"
>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: best angle of climb vs. best rate of climb
>
>
>
> >
> > Need some help from the already flying guys.........
> > The more I think of this the more it eludes me.
> > When I first saw Mike Cuy's video of laying the smoke screen, it didn't
> seem real how quick he was climbing. Now I see it's really so!
> > I pull the plane back to 55 mph and I get an amazing 700fpm climb, I go
up
> like an elevator. (just had to throw that in).
> > Now I guess if you pull back farther, you will climb at a slower rate,
BUT
> at a steeper angle to clear trees at the end of the runway. Now how do
you
> calculate this? Do you look down and time how far over the ground you go?
> Or how long to get to the end of the runway? You can't simply use a
> stopwatch and time how long it takes to get to a certain altitude at each
> speed, cause this is doing the same as your "rate of climb"
> > Help me here.
> > walt
> > NX140DL
> > (north N.J.)
> > ps still smiling, smiling, smiling!
> >
> >
>
>
> This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
<http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: best angle of climb vs. best rate of climb |
yeah that formula works for Vx... best angle of climb. By all means it is
not the aerodynamic engineer's formula but a homebuilder's quick formula.
Now I'm no engineer but in laymens terms.....Essentially, best glide is the
optimum lift/drag ratio speed. The best lift for the least amount of drag
... relatively of course....
So now, that speed (Vbg) might be considered Vx, but since we are under
power in Vx and power-off in Vbg, we've kinda faked the drag part of the
equation by having thrust in there..... you can take about 10% of Vbg and
subtract it to get a close figure for Vx.
Totally non-scientific explanation, but it really does work.
There's a book out there that goes into great detail about the test flying
period and how to accurately determine all your V speeds. I forget he
author, but it's a great and necessary read if you ask me.
DJ Vegh
www.raptoronline.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: best angle of climb vs. best rate of climb
>
> DJ,
> this is the way to get best CLIMB angle?
> walt
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | best angle of climb vs. best rate of climb |
Hi Walt,
I did the same sort of tests with my old Cessna 140, because it had a very
tired 85 hp Continental when I bought it and I was flying it out of a 2,000'
strip with very tall trees at each end. I found a straight section of road
with a couple of intersections about a mile apart. I started flying
parallel to the road, just off to one side at a constant airspeed (say, 70
mph). When my forward strut crossed the first intersection, I noted the
altitude. I continued to climb at that speed, remaining parallel with the
road until my forward strut crossed the second intersection, when I noted
the altitude again. I then dropped back down to the initial altitude and
repeated the procedure, going the other direction, but with a different
speed. This was done early in the morning, when the air was smooth and
there was no wind. With wind, you would have to fly both directions at the
same airspeed and average the two runs. After an hour I had several
different runs, about 5 mph apart and could easily see which one gave me the
best climb over the same distance. I then narrowed it down by making runs
only 1 mph apart (at least I kidded myself into thinking that I could fly
that accurately). I found that in that plane, with that airspeed indicator,
my best angle of climb was at about 72 mph indicated.
Have fun, I'm envious of you as I slog along doing systems work and trying
to get ready to start covering mine.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walter
evans
Subject: Pietenpol-List: best angle of climb vs. best rate of climb
Need some help from the already flying guys.........
The more I think of this the more it eludes me.
When I first saw Mike Cuy's video of laying the smoke screen, it didn't seem
real how quick he was climbing. Now I see it's really so!
I pull the plane back to 55 mph and I get an amazing 700fpm climb, I go up
like an elevator. (just had to throw that in).
Now I guess if you pull back farther, you will climb at a slower rate, BUT
at a steeper angle to clear trees at the end of the runway. Now how do you
calculate this? Do you look down and time how far over the ground you go?
Or how long to get to the end of the runway? You can't simply use a
stopwatch and time how long it takes to get to a certain altitude at each
speed, cause this is doing the same as your "rate of climb"
Help me here.
walt
NX140DL
(north N.J.)
ps still smiling, smiling, smiling!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: best angle of climb vs. best rate of climb |
I also believe there were a number of articles in Sport Aviation
within the last year that dealt with all these performance issues.
Take a look back at those and if you can't find them let me know and
I'll see if I can.
Kirk
>
>yeah that formula works for Vx... best angle of climb. By all means it is
>not the aerodynamic engineer's formula but a homebuilder's quick formula.
>
>Now I'm no engineer but in laymens terms.....Essentially, best glide is the
>optimum lift/drag ratio speed. The best lift for the least amount of drag
>... relatively of course....
>
>So now, that speed (Vbg) might be considered Vx, but since we are under
>power in Vx and power-off in Vbg, we've kinda faked the drag part of the
>equation by having thrust in there..... you can take about 10% of Vbg and
>subtract it to get a close figure for Vx.
>
>Totally non-scientific explanation, but it really does work.
>
>There's a book out there that goes into great detail about the test flying
>period and how to accurately determine all your V speeds. I forget he
>author, but it's a great and necessary read if you ask me.
>
>DJ Vegh
>www.raptoronline.com
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: best angle of climb vs. best rate of climb
>
>
>
>>
>> DJ,
>> this is the way to get best CLIMB angle?
>> walt
>
>
>This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for
>viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting
>provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution,
>visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
>
>
--
Kirk Huizenga and Bryan Eastep's Aircamper and Corvair Project
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList.cfm?Menu=PhotoGallery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hardaway <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: best angle of climb vs. best rate of climb |
DJ's method may work but it is only by coincidence.
If you look at a glider's curve of sink rate (or rate of climb) vs. airspeed, you
see that speed for best L/D is always faster than speed for minimum sink rate.
Sink rate (negative) and ROC (positive) make the vertical scale and airspeed
makes the horizontal scale. The curve looks like a round hill top and the highest
peak is the speed for minimum sink rate. The speed for best L/D is found
where a straight line from the zero-zero point, sloping down, makes a tangent
on the
curve at a point that is always farther away from zero than the speed for minimum
sink.
A powered airplane makes the same kind of curve but adding power moves the curve
up, above the zero ROC line (hopefully). The best rate of climb speed is still
the highest point on the curve. However, the best angle of climb airspeed
is the
point where a straight line from zero-zero, going UP this time, makes a tangent
to the curve...a point that is always slower than best rate-of-climb and much
slower than best L/D.
A draggy, high lift, low powered, bird like the Piet separates these three airspeeds
by just a few mph. In higher performance aircraft, best L/D can be much
faster than best ROC and best angle may be a lot slower.
In Piets, the different engines installed, with different power available, are
all going to have different speeds for best angle of climb...the bigger the engine,
the steeper (and possibly slower) the best climb angle. Speeds for best
ROC
and best L/D won't change with different amounts of power.
Measuring ROC at different airspeeds is the only way to determine the characteristics
of your particular airplane and a stopwatch works just fine.
Mike Hardaway
DJ Vegh wrote:
> yeah that formula works for Vx... best angle of climb. By all means it is
> not the aerodynamic engineer's formula but a homebuilder's quick formula.
>
> Now I'm no engineer but in laymens terms.....Essentially, best glide is the
> optimum lift/drag ratio speed. The best lift for the least amount of drag
> ... relatively of course....
>
> So now, that speed (Vbg) might be considered Vx, but since we are under
> power in Vx and power-off in Vbg, we've kinda faked the drag part of the
> equation by having thrust in there..... you can take about 10% of Vbg and
> subtract it to get a close figure for Vx.
>
> Totally non-scientific explanation, but it really does work.
>
> There's a book out there that goes into great detail about the test flying
> period and how to accurately determine all your V speeds. I forget he
> author, but it's a great and necessary read if you ask me.
>
> DJ Vegh
> www.raptoronline.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Guys,
I downloaded a copy of "Design and Build your own propeller" from
http://www.wood-carvers.com which was a reprint from November 1987
edition of EAA Experimenter, pages 16 - 19, 32. It is a very good
article but unfortunately the figures are not readable. Anybody have any
better copies of figs 4, 5 and 7 or could send a photocopy of the whole
article? I am looking to build one for a Corvair powered Pietenpol.
Cheers
Peter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com> |
| Subject: | Corvair conversion |
I've just started building a GN 1. My original thought was to power it wit
a C-90 or 0-200. Both of these choices are a bit on the expensive side.
After much soul searching I have decide to go with the Corvair conversion.
Apart for the obvious engine mount change, what other factors do I need to
consider before making the installation. Are there mods to the fuselage
etc.
Looking for help.
Ken Rickards.
Ken Rickards
Cole Vision Canada Inc.
80 Centurian Drive,
Markham, Ontario.
L3R 8C1
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Corvair conversion |
| From: | "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
Hi Ken,
The Piet has a longer fuselage for the lighter weight engine like a Corvair.
The extra leg room is a bonus if you're a tall guy too. I'm going to use
a Corvair in mine, I haven't gotten to the fuselage yet, but if you don't have
Piet plans, I can try and get you dimensions for the fuse or scan pictures
of my plans to let you compare with the GN. (Is that legal guys?)
Also sign up here, to the Corvaircraft list. Send a blank e-mail to
corvaircraft-subscribe(at)mailinglists.org
I think that automatically signs you up. Lots of talk about Corvair engines for
planes, and what guys are doing to them. DJ is there a lot, AND he's got a
GN-1 !! I forgot!! I guess you two will be best friends now. Take it away DJ.
Kent
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Rickards [mailto:krickards(at)cvci.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 7:25 AM
> To: 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair conversion
>
>
>
>
> I've just started building a GN 1. My original thought was
> to power it wit
> a C-90 or 0-200. Both of these choices are a bit on the
> expensive side.
> After much soul searching I have decide to go with the
> Corvair conversion.
> Apart for the obvious engine mount change, what other factors
> do I need to
> consider before making the installation. Are there mods to
> the fuselage
> etc.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | climbing in a 65 hp Piet |
Walt----I did a real basic test one day in my Piet. I took off several
times and climbed at 40,45,50,55,60, and 65 mph and noted my altimeter
reading when I crossed the telephone lines at the far end of the runway by
the road. To tell you the truth there was not a great difference in how
much altitude I gained between 40 and 55 mph, but at 60 and 65 you could
tell it was a flatter (lower) gain.
As usual I'm going to digress here. What will really bit your butt in a
Pietenpol is a TAILWIND on takeoff. Hot days, big passengers, too much
baggage will all give us premature grey hair or death. The Piet is really
sensitive to these things. Right now you are getting some super climb
performance. In the middle of August though you'll think you lost 20 hp.
After flying in mostly 82-85 F temperatures one week this past summer I
decided to go out and clean up the plane one Sunday. It was about 93 F.
outside. I wanted to cool off so I took a flight. I landed, got full
fuel (17 gallons) and took off again. I barely, barley, barley made it
over the trees at the far end of the runway and my knees were shaking on
that very shallow climbout. Nuff said. I'm really glad to hear of your
progress and hope it fires up those on the list who are in the trenches
cutting wood, ordering AN hardware and fabric, and looking forward to
joining you in the air in the next year, two, three or more.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com> |
| Subject: | Corvair conversion |
Thanks kent, I would be interested in getting the dimensions from you.
Like you I am about a year away from building the Fuse, busy building ribs
and getting my workshop heated, but the more information I can get now will
make it easier when I get to that stage of the project. And yes the extra
leg room will be nice, I'm 6'1".
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Hallsten [mailto:KHallsten(at)governair.com]
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair conversion
Hi Ken,
The Piet has a longer fuselage for the lighter weight engine like a
Corvair. The extra leg room is a bonus if you're a tall guy too. I'm going
to use a Corvair in mine, I haven't gotten to the fuselage yet, but if you
don't have Piet plans, I can try and get you dimensions for the fuse or scan
pictures of my plans to let you compare with the GN. (Is that legal guys?)
Also sign up here, to the Corvaircraft list. Send a blank e-mail to
corvaircraft-subscribe(at)mailinglists.org
I think that automatically signs you up. Lots of talk about Corvair engines
for planes, and what guys are doing to them. DJ is there a lot, AND he's
got a GN-1 !! I forgot!! I guess you two will be best friends now. Take it
away DJ.
Kent
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Rickards [mailto:krickards(at)cvci.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 7:25 AM
> To: 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair conversion
>
>
>
>
> I've just started building a GN 1. My original thought was
> to power it wit
> a C-90 or 0-200. Both of these choices are a bit on the
> expensive side.
> After much soul searching I have decide to go with the
> Corvair conversion.
> Apart for the obvious engine mount change, what other factors
> do I need to
> consider before making the installation. Are there mods to
> the fuselage
> etc.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owen Davies" <owen5819(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Making a Prop |
Peter W Johnson helpfully offered:
> I downloaded a copy of "Design and Build your own propeller" from
> http://www.wood-carvers.com (etc.)
Just tried the link and got an error message. Anyone else have
success with this?
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
I got an error message too.
chris bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Owen
Davies
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Making a Prop
Peter W Johnson helpfully offered:
> I downloaded a copy of "Design and Build your own propeller" from
> http://www.wood-carvers.com (etc.)
Just tried the link and got an error message. Anyone else have
success with this?
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Trainer" <dtrain(at)ptd.net> |
Try
http://wood-carver.com/
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Owen
Davies
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Making a Prop
Peter W Johnson helpfully offered:
> I downloaded a copy of "Design and Build your own propeller" from
> http://www.wood-carvers.com (etc.)
Just tried the link and got an error message. Anyone else have
success with this?
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Myers <jmyers(at)powernet.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Making a Prop |
I too was interested and tried - got error messages as well. I also tried
taking the hyphen out and got a wood carving site but didn't find anything
about propellers.
John
>
>Peter W Johnson helpfully offered:
>
>
> > I downloaded a copy of "Design and Build your own propeller" from
> > http://www.wood-carvers.com (etc.)
>
>Just tried the link and got an error message. Anyone else have
>success with this?
>
>Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)yahoo.com> |
Sorry Owen, should be wood-carver not carver"s"
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen
Davies
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Making a Prop
Peter W Johnson helpfully offered:
> I downloaded a copy of "Design and Build your own propeller" from
> http://www.wood-carvers.com (etc.)
Just tried the link and got an error message. Anyone else have
success with this?
Owen Davies
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: best angle of climb vs. best rate of climb |
yup.... as I said... it is by no means a perfect formula.... only a quick
and dirty method of getting close.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Hardaway" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net>
> DJ's method may work but it is only by coincidence.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten(at)governair.com> |
TRY http://www.wood-carver.com/articles.html
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christian Bobka [mailto:bobka(at)charter.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 9:37 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Making a Prop
>
>
>
>
> I got an error message too.
>
> chris bobka
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair conversion - GN-1 |
Greetings Ken,
Kent is right.... I do have a GN-1. And best of all it will be powered via
Corvair. I bought my '65 110hp Corvair in August and have is about 80%
completely converted for aero use.
I stretched my fuse, but not because of the 'Vair. There is really no need
to do any mods to the fuse if you are going to run a 'vair. The GN-1 was
designed to be powered with a C-85. As I recall a C-85 with full eelctric
is about 190lbs??
The 'vair is about 210lbs. Of course the 'vair is heavier, but let me tell
you a secret.... GN-1's are notorious for being tail heavy and most guys who
use C85's end up making longer engine mounts to get the weight out in the
front. The GN-1 doesn't have the ability of being able to move the center
cabanes to change CG. The way it ought to be if you ask me... canting the
cabanes forward or backward is the lazy way out of poor planning when
building the plane if you ask me.
I strongly suggest you try on a GN-1 for size. The fuse is narrower than a
Piet. I was able to sit in one before I built my fuse. I relaized there
was no way in hell my 6'4" body was going to fit. I widened mine 1.75" at
the rear seat and about 1.25" at the firewall. I also stretched mine. I
moved the rear seat back 2.5", moved the firwall forward 1.75" and pushed
the tail post back 1". It was VERY important to leave the upright sticks at
the same dimension where the cabanes and landing gear bolt up to. Keep that
in mine when stretching.
There are TONS of pics of my GN-1 during construction at my site
www.raptoronline.com
scroll down to the Aircamper logo and click it.
Feel free to email me off list any time if you have questions.
DJ Vegh
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
dvegh(at)imagedv.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten(at)governair.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair conversion
>
> Hi Ken,
> The Piet has a longer fuselage for the lighter weight engine like
a Corvair. The extra leg room is a bonus if you're a tall guy too. I'm
going to use a Corvair in mine, I haven't gotten to the fuselage yet, but if
you don't have Piet plans, I can try and get you dimensions for the fuse or
scan pictures of my plans to let you compare with the GN. (Is that legal
guys?)
>
> Also sign up here, to the Corvaircraft list. Send a blank e-mail to
>
> corvaircraft-subscribe(at)mailinglists.org
>
> I think that automatically signs you up. Lots of talk about Corvair
engines for planes, and what guys are doing to them. DJ is there a lot, AND
he's got a GN-1 !! I forgot!! I guess you two will be best friends now.
Take it away DJ.
>
> Kent
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ken Rickards [mailto:krickards(at)cvci.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 7:25 AM
> > To: 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair conversion
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I've just started building a GN 1. My original thought was
> > to power it wit
> > a C-90 or 0-200. Both of these choices are a bit on the
> > expensive side.
> > After much soul searching I have decide to go with the
> > Corvair conversion.
> > Apart for the obvious engine mount change, what other factors
> > do I need to
> > consider before making the installation. Are there mods to
> > the fuselage
> > etc.
> >
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | canting the cabane struts |
>DJ wrote:
> The way it ought to be if you ask me... canting the
>cabanes forward or backward is the lazy way out of poor planning when
>building the plane if you ask me.
DJ---The brilliance of this feature in the design of the Piet wing fittings
allows so many different engines to be used on
the Piet though. I certainly would rather re-position the wing by an inch
or two than have to build a whole new motor mount if your CG doesn't come
out just right. It's a better alternative than adding a lead weight to
the nose or tail. Many guys who build the GN-1 don't know that the GN-1
wing cannot be adjusted and that the Pietenpol wing can. In my opinion BHP
did us all a favor by making the wing re-positionable. In Bernie's day
he was experimenting with all kinds of engines just like we are
today----Subaru, Corvair, 0-200's, Fiesta, C-65's, and Fords. Most of
us are not sharp enough to figure out how long a motor mount to make to
have the CG work out exactly for all these various engine choices.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com> |
| Subject: | Corvair conversion - GN-1 |
Thanks DJ,
I have a line on my engine. I have a choice of 3. The one that I think I
will get came out of a running car 3 months ago. As with yours its a 110hp
1965. I was rebuilt 1 year ago and has only 5200km on it since then. I
think I am stealing it for $200 Canadian, about $120 U.S. I will be ordering
the parts from Wayne in the spring. Are you going to use the blower that
came with the engine, or the light weight one. I was considering the light
weight version so that I could have electric start and a generator for about
the same weight. Thanks again, I will visit your site and make copious
notes.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper(at)imagedv.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair conversion - GN-1
Greetings Ken,
Kent is right.... I do have a GN-1. And best of all it will be powered via
Corvair. I bought my '65 110hp Corvair in August and have is about 80%
completely converted for aero use.
I stretched my fuse, but not because of the 'Vair. There is really no need
to do any mods to the fuse if you are going to run a 'vair. The GN-1 was
designed to be powered with a C-85. As I recall a C-85 with full eelctric
is about 190lbs??
The 'vair is about 210lbs. Of course the 'vair is heavier, but let me tell
you a secret.... GN-1's are notorious for being tail heavy and most guys who
use C85's end up making longer engine mounts to get the weight out in the
front. The GN-1 doesn't have the ability of being able to move the center
cabanes to change CG. The way it ought to be if you ask me... canting the
cabanes forward or backward is the lazy way out of poor planning when
building the plane if you ask me.
I strongly suggest you try on a GN-1 for size. The fuse is narrower than a
Piet. I was able to sit in one before I built my fuse. I relaized there
was no way in hell my 6'4" body was going to fit. I widened mine 1.75" at
the rear seat and about 1.25" at the firewall. I also stretched mine. I
moved the rear seat back 2.5", moved the firwall forward 1.75" and pushed
the tail post back 1". It was VERY important to leave the upright sticks at
the same dimension where the cabanes and landing gear bolt up to. Keep that
in mine when stretching.
There are TONS of pics of my GN-1 during construction at my site
www.raptoronline.com
scroll down to the Aircamper logo and click it.
Feel free to email me off list any time if you have questions.
DJ Vegh
www.raptoronline.com
N74DV
dvegh(at)imagedv.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten(at)governair.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair conversion
>
> Hi Ken,
> The Piet has a longer fuselage for the lighter weight engine like
a Corvair. The extra leg room is a bonus if you're a tall guy too. I'm
going to use a Corvair in mine, I haven't gotten to the fuselage yet, but if
you don't have Piet plans, I can try and get you dimensions for the fuse or
scan pictures of my plans to let you compare with the GN. (Is that legal
guys?)
>
> Also sign up here, to the Corvaircraft list. Send a blank e-mail to
>
> corvaircraft-subscribe(at)mailinglists.org
>
> I think that automatically signs you up. Lots of talk about Corvair
engines for planes, and what guys are doing to them. DJ is there a lot, AND
he's got a GN-1 !! I forgot!! I guess you two will be best friends now.
Take it away DJ.
>
> Kent
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ken Rickards [mailto:krickards(at)cvci.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 7:25 AM
> > To: 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair conversion
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I've just started building a GN 1. My original thought was
> > to power it wit
> > a C-90 or 0-200. Both of these choices are a bit on the
> > expensive side.
> > After much soul searching I have decide to go with the
> > Corvair conversion.
> > Apart for the obvious engine mount change, what other factors
> > do I need to
> > consider before making the installation. Are there mods to
> > the fuselage
> > etc.
> >
>
>
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<http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: canting the cabane struts |
ouch..... I knew I was gonna get something regarding that coment... :-)
I can certainly see the genious in the idea. No doubt about it.... it does make
it easy if you are not sure what engine you'll be using. Nothing personal
to those who have done it that way or will....
It's just my opinion (worth whatever anyone gives it) that I like the look of perpendicular
cabanes. To me canted cabanes make the plane look like it has a
big band-aid to patch up a problem that could have been avoided in so many ways.
But please.... no one take offense... we each have our own ways to build our
planes and in the end we each love our planes the same.
DJ Vegh
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 9:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: canting the cabane struts
>DJ wrote:
> The way it ought to be if you ask me... canting the
>cabanes forward or backward is the lazy way out of poor planning when
>building the plane if you ask me.
DJ---The brilliance of this feature in the design of the Piet wing fittings
allows so many different engines to be used on
the Piet though. I certainly would rather re-position the wing by an inch
or two than have to build a whole new motor mount if your CG doesn't come
out just right. It's a better alternative than adding a lead weight to
the nose or tail. Many guys who build the GN-1 don't know that the GN-1
wing cannot be adjusted and that the Pietenpol wing can. In my opinion BHP
did us all a favor by making the wing re-positionable. In Bernie's day
he was experimenting with all kinds of engines just like we are
today----Subaru, Corvair, 0-200's, Fiesta, C-65's, and Fords. Most of
us are not sharp enough to figure out how long a motor mount to make to
have the CG work out exactly for all these various engine choices.
Mike C.
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: climbing in a 65 hp Piet |
Mike and all,
Thanks for the input! I'm sure the climb will deminish come the warm
weather, but it's better to start with a better than expected climb, than a
just ok climb.
What you said about taking off with a tailwind is right on the money. My
third time out I was still taking off what I considered the safest way in
case of an abort. That climbout was less than impressive, and I figured the
first two were just too good to be true. But I guess with what you said,
the tailwind was the meannie in that case.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: climbing in a 65 hp Piet
>
> Walt----I did a real basic test one day in my Piet. I took off several
> times and climbed at 40,45,50,55,60, and 65 mph and noted my altimeter
> reading when I crossed the telephone lines at the far end of the runway by
> the road. To tell you the truth there was not a great difference in how
> much altitude I gained between 40 and 55 mph, but at 60 and 65 you could
> tell it was a flatter (lower) gain.
>
> As usual I'm going to digress here. What will really bit your butt in a
> Pietenpol is a TAILWIND on takeoff. Hot days, big passengers, too much
> baggage will all give us premature grey hair or death. The Piet is
really
> sensitive to these things. Right now you are getting some super climb
> performance. In the middle of August though you'll think you lost 20 hp.
>
> After flying in mostly 82-85 F temperatures one week this past summer I
> decided to go out and clean up the plane one Sunday. It was about 93 F.
> outside. I wanted to cool off so I took a flight. I landed, got full
> fuel (17 gallons) and took off again. I barely, barley, barley made it
> over the trees at the far end of the runway and my knees were shaking on
> that very shallow climbout. Nuff said. I'm really glad to hear of your
> progress and hope it fires up those on the list who are in the trenches
> cutting wood, ordering AN hardware and fabric, and looking forward to
> joining you in the air in the next year, two, three or more.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair conversion |
Ken,
I built the long fuse (with an A-65) and just for your information, there
is no way I could fit in the short fuse. I'm 6' 3" and 210#. The snag for
me is, in order to get out, I can't just pull my feet out of the holes, pull
them back to the front of the seat, and stand up. If I do that my knees jam
under the panel. So I have to pull the feet onto the ash crossmember and
lift the big butt to the turtledeck, and kind of pull the legs straight back
before bending.
Just my input.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Rickards" <krickards(at)cvci.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair conversion
>
> Thanks kent, I would be interested in getting the dimensions from you.
> Like you I am about a year away from building the Fuse, busy building ribs
> and getting my workshop heated, but the more information I can get now
will
> make it easier when I get to that stage of the project. And yes the extra
> leg room will be nice, I'm 6'1".
>
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kent Hallsten [mailto:KHallsten(at)governair.com]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair conversion
>
>
>
>
> Hi Ken,
> The Piet has a longer fuselage for the lighter weight engine like
a
> Corvair. The extra leg room is a bonus if you're a tall guy too. I'm
going
> to use a Corvair in mine, I haven't gotten to the fuselage yet, but if you
> don't have Piet plans, I can try and get you dimensions for the fuse or
scan
> pictures of my plans to let you compare with the GN. (Is that legal
guys?)
>
>
> Also sign up here, to the Corvaircraft list. Send a blank e-mail to
>
> corvaircraft-subscribe(at)mailinglists.org
>
> I think that automatically signs you up. Lots of talk about Corvair
engines
> for planes, and what guys are doing to them. DJ is there a lot, AND he's
> got a GN-1 !! I forgot!! I guess you two will be best friends now. Take
it
> away DJ.
>
> Kent
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ken Rickards [mailto:krickards(at)cvci.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 7:25 AM
> > To: 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair conversion
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I've just started building a GN 1. My original thought was
> > to power it wit
> > a C-90 or 0-200. Both of these choices are a bit on the
> > expensive side.
> > After much soul searching I have decide to go with the
> > Corvair conversion.
> > Apart for the obvious engine mount change, what other factors
> > do I need to
> > consider before making the installation. Are there mods to
> > the fuselage
> > etc.
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com> |
| Subject: | Corvair conversion |
Thanks Walt,
Sounds like my decision is getting easier to make..... Long Fuse.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: walter evans [mailto:wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair conversion
Ken,
I built the long fuse (with an A-65) and just for your information, there
is no way I could fit in the short fuse. I'm 6' 3" and 210#. The snag for
me is, in order to get out, I can't just pull my feet out of the holes, pull
them back to the front of the seat, and stand up. If I do that my knees jam
under the panel. So I have to pull the feet onto the ash crossmember and
lift the big butt to the turtledeck, and kind of pull the legs straight back
before bending.
Just my input.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Rickards" <krickards(at)cvci.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair conversion
>
> Thanks kent, I would be interested in getting the dimensions from you.
> Like you I am about a year away from building the Fuse, busy building ribs
> and getting my workshop heated, but the more information I can get now
will
> make it easier when I get to that stage of the project. And yes the extra
> leg room will be nice, I'm 6'1".
>
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kent Hallsten [mailto:KHallsten(at)governair.com]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair conversion
>
>
>
>
> Hi Ken,
> The Piet has a longer fuselage for the lighter weight engine like
a
> Corvair. The extra leg room is a bonus if you're a tall guy too. I'm
going
> to use a Corvair in mine, I haven't gotten to the fuselage yet, but if you
> don't have Piet plans, I can try and get you dimensions for the fuse or
scan
> pictures of my plans to let you compare with the GN. (Is that legal
guys?)
>
>
> Also sign up here, to the Corvaircraft list. Send a blank e-mail to
>
> corvaircraft-subscribe(at)mailinglists.org
>
> I think that automatically signs you up. Lots of talk about Corvair
engines
> for planes, and what guys are doing to them. DJ is there a lot, AND he's
> got a GN-1 !! I forgot!! I guess you two will be best friends now. Take
it
> away DJ.
>
> Kent
>
>
November 07, 2002 - November 27, 2002
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-cw