Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dd
April 22, 2003 - May 15, 2003
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.raptoronline.com
Mesa, AZ
----- Original Message -----
| From: | "Ian Holland" <iholland(at)telusplanet.net> |
>
> I hope that when you laid out the templates for the CNC that you
> lengthened some of the parts where appropriate. If you did not, then
> you are going to have a whole bunch that just will not fit. I learned
> the hard way and allowed generally 1/2 inch extra on the connector
> holes. Not all need it, but try with a cardboard template first to see
> if you can in fact get the bolt clearance needed.
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 04/21/03 |
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
Mike,
When you say that you, "moved my engine out only 1" over plans", do you
mean that the rear of your Continental engine is 1" further from the
firewall than the Model A would be?
Dick H.
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Walt wins the AWARD for light Piet !!!!!
Man, Walt you are da man ! Empty Wt. of 595 pounds !!!!! Holy moly,
that is fantastic. Looks like
you'll be able to take an actual full size adult with you for rides this
summer even on warm days. Great !
I ended up at 632 lbs. See--that adds up what you said about you moved
your Cont. engine out 2" and the wing back 3". I moved
my engine out only 1" over plans so had to go 4" back on the wing. Too
look at our numbers I would now
build an engine mount at 3" over plans and not have to move my wing back
as
far. Either way, they spell FUN.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John_Duprey(at)vmed.org |
| Subject: | Re: two firsts today,,,"visiting" and rain |
04/22/2003 08:08:42 AM
Walt: That would be a ery cool project, keep us posted.
John
"walter evans" (at)matronics.com on 04/18/2003
08:00:27 PM
Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: two firsts today,,,"visiting" and rain
Ken,
Funny how human nature is. The grass is always greener on the other side,
you know. It's nice to fly, but get that day that is dreary, and I long
for
a project to work on. I WILL have a project by this fall. Aronca C-3 , if
I can find some infro on them. Want to build one from scratch.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken & Lisa Rickards" <KL0914(at)cogeco.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: two firsts today,,,"visiting" and rain
>
> Way to go Walt..
>
> Just finished my rudder and vertical fin. Elevators laid out and wil be
> glued up this weekend. Can't wait until I can report 8 down 17 to go.
>
> Ken
>
> GN1 2992
>
>
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> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To: "piet discussion"
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: two firsts today,,,"visiting" and rain
>
>
>
> >
> > With spring comming late and the wind we've been having, knew I had to
do
> drastic measures. Today started with a breeze and overcast skies.
Plenty
> of ceiling but threat of rain.
> > got into my snowmobile suit, and away I went. after a few trips around
> the valley, broke out and headed up to Sussex Airport. This is allowed
by
> my DAR cause we don't have fuel at my home base.
> > A big whopping 15 miles or so. Trip went great.
> > Nice to taxi on a tarmac that the Pietenpol hasn't been on before.
> > It was great to pull up , with no one outside, and as soon as I climbed
> out, people came out of the woodwork. Couple of guys I knew, and a
couple
> that I didn't. All amazed at the Pietenpol look and story. One of the
> guys was Paul Styger who owns Sussex Airport, and puts on the famous
> Sussex Airshow. Asked me if I would be in the show, cause they are
having
> an antique fly-by for the 100th aniversary of flight. Anyone else within
> flying distance of here may keep this in mind to participate.
> > On the way back I detoured a little to fly over my Mentors house.
> > Then as I headed for home, looked and the windshields were cloudy.
> Realized it was rain. So all the way back flew in a light rain with the
top
> of my head getting wet.
> > An exciting day. Now the fun is starting that I dreamed about since
the
> first day I started laying out longerons,,,The adventures of "visiting"
> > To all of you who are building,,,keep plugging. It's gets better that
you
> can ever imagine.
> > walt
> > NX140DL
> > I'm still smiling
> > 8 hours down, and 17 to go.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | 1" over the Cont. engine mount plans |
>Mike,
>When you say that you, "moved my engine out only 1" over plans", do you
>mean that the rear of your Continental engine is 1" further from the
>firewall than the Model A would be?
>Dick H.
Dick---Good point. I'm talking about the Cont. 65 motor mount plans in
reference to how far out 'over plans' I moved my engine, not the Model A
motor mount. Glad you cleared that up. I should have been more specific.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Hannan" <isp.inc(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Any Piet builders near So Cal. |
Looking for peit builders in the southern California area? after 3 years of not
working on it, time to start again.
Thanks
Ken Hannan
Temecula, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Wing tank level sight guage.... |
Building a wing tank? I just got off the phone with a local pressure vessel distributor.
My hope was that he might supply my fuel level guage sight glass.
I'm using a level guage like the one Larry Williams and others have used and
was detailed in a previous Brodhead Pietenpol Association newsletter.
Anyway, all the clear plastic tubing I've found turns yellow when immersed in gasoline.
So after FINALLY getting him to understand what I'm trying to do, he
asked why I'm building it and not buying it already made? After all my usual
"nothing like this is made" explanations, he said that yes, something like that
IS made and costs around $40.
The one he showed me is made of brass and looks like a perfect solution! I'm going
to make mine, but if anyone is interested, here's what he recommended:
Top Vented Guages, Model 387 or Model 328. Many lengths and NPT sizes are available
and illustrated at:
<http://www.johnernst.com/liquid_level_gauges_p32.html>
Pretty neat option actually, if you want something built out of brass and ready
for harsh environments, this might fit the bill.... They even list one that's
12" long that could be turned over and used for a fuse tank.....
Jim in Plano
NX25JM
Doing a LOT of varnishing these days, the center section is almost done and I'm
having EXTREME fun building this thing!!!! What a joy......
Build Log: <http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=52>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
We are trying to decide between strap hinges as shown on the plans or piano hinges.
We went to a fameous Home stuff superstore and loked at the piano hinges,
flimsly. The strap hinges looked ok, but were hot dip gavalinazed, can't weld.
What is a Piet builder to do? Are there any sources for 3" strap hinges that
are not plated?
Barry Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinges |
| From: | Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
Barry,
For non-flimsy piano hinges (extruded and very robust), go to
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/pianohinge.php
Besides being stronger and easier to align than three or four strap hinges,
piano hinges offer the extra benefit of effectively sealing the aileron gap
which provides better aileron response, especially at low speed.
There are other online sources besides AS&S.
on 4/22/03 12:40, Barry Davis at bed(at)mindspring.com wrote:
>
> We are trying to decide between strap hinges as shown on the plans or piano
> hinges. We went to a fameous Home stuff superstore and loked at the piano
> hinges, flimsly. The strap hinges looked ok, but were hot dip gavalinazed,
> can't weld. What is a Piet builder to do? Are there any sources for 3" strap
> hinges that are not plated?
> Barry Davis
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinges |
Barry,
I second this. Just have 11 hours on my Piet, and very happy with the piano
hinges. I too bought the strap "barn door" hinges, but just couldn't bring
myself to use them. Here is one of the very few changes I made from the
original plans.
I did have a big concern to a fact that was brought up during an earlier
discussion on this. that the long hinge would bind during normal wing
deflection. Where the wing is not flat but curved up at the tip during a
steep turn. But up till now haven't run into that condition. I'm very
satisfied with the Pianos.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges
>
> Barry,
>
> For non-flimsy piano hinges (extruded and very robust), go to
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/pianohinge.php
>
> Besides being stronger and easier to align than three or four strap
hinges,
> piano hinges offer the extra benefit of effectively sealing the aileron
gap
> which provides better aileron response, especially at low speed.
> There are other online sources besides AS&S.
>
> on 4/22/03 12:40, Barry Davis at bed(at)mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >
> > We are trying to decide between strap hinges as shown on the plans or
piano
> > hinges. We went to a fameous Home stuff superstore and loked at the
piano
> > hinges, flimsly. The strap hinges looked ok, but were hot dip
gavalinazed,
> > can't weld. What is a Piet builder to do? Are there any sources for 3"
strap
> > hinges that are not plated?
> > Barry Davis
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"piet discussion"
| Subject: | ground looping and lose tailwheel cables |
Had some problems with the plane getting away from me on landing. And found the
tailwheel cables not tight. I know this was talked about earlier. Should the
cables be tight to the springs?
I'm flying a rudder bar as opposed to pedals. Trying to find where the weak
spot is. (hopefully it's not me!)
Any tips on landing a tailwheel with tall and narrow gear? If I break a wing,
the flying season is over.
thanks,
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ground looping and lose tailwheel cables |
Yes, the cables hould be reasonably tight although what you usually see with
loose cables is shimmy. The only advice I'd give is KEEP THE STICK BACK . .
. HARD.
If you manage to break a high-wing on landing we are going to line up and
take turns giving you a swift kick in the rear.
Gene ;)
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ground looping and lose tailwheel cables
>
> Had some problems with the plane getting away from me on landing. And
found the tailwheel cables not tight. I know this was talked about earlier.
Should the cables be tight to the springs?
> I'm flying a rudder bar as opposed to pedals. Trying to find where the
weak spot is. (hopefully it's not me!)
> Any tips on landing a tailwheel with tall and narrow gear? If I break a
wing, the flying season is over.
> thanks,
> walt
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ground looping and lose tailwheel cables |
| From: | Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
Walt,
Loose control cables should be avoided everywhere. With loose cables, when
you want to put in a corrective control input, there is a little bit of time
lost in taking up the slack before your input is felt at the control, the
tailwheel in this case. During that time, the deviation from your desired
path grows larger, requiring more input than you originally put in. The
possible subsequent over-control can cause more problems than the original
deviation. (The technical term is pilot-induced oscillation, or PIO).
There is no need to tune your rudder or tailwheel cables to C-sharp but
there shouldn't be any slop. The springs are there partly to keep your toes
and your rudder horn from getting broken when the tailwheel hits a rock or a
gopher hole.
In airplanes that don't have rudder bars or some other tie-in between the
pedals, the slack is taken out by the weight of your feet on the pedals.
Mike
on 4/22/03 15:15, walter evans at wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
>
> Had some problems with the plane getting away from me on landing. And found
> the tailwheel cables not tight. I know this was talked about earlier. Should
> the cables be tight to the springs?
> I'm flying a rudder bar as opposed to pedals. Trying to find where the weak
> spot is. (hopefully it's not me!)
> Any tips on landing a tailwheel with tall and narrow gear? If I break a
> wing, the flying season is over.
> thanks,
> walt
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Carbon buildup |
In a message dated 4/18/03 7:35:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
GeorgeA(at)paonline.com writes:
> Hi group. I have an A-65 Cont. I'm doing a top on. Is there some secret
> recipe for getting the carbon off the piston and the chamber? I'm afraid of
> scratching them. I've tried Marvel Mystery Oil, but it doesn't seem to do
> anything. It was a suggestion from an A&P
Using a 3M type scratch pad (non-metalic) would work. Long as you don't
create any deep scratches.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Carmen" <jlcarmen(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ground looping and lose tailwheel cables |
what if one put two independent rudder bars in place of the single bar,
Sorta like hinged in the middle, thus allowing feet pressure to take up any
slack. ???????
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ground looping and lose tailwheel cables
>
> Walt,
>
> Loose control cables should be avoided everywhere. With loose cables,
when
> you want to put in a corrective control input, there is a little bit of
time
> lost in taking up the slack before your input is felt at the control, the
> tailwheel in this case. During that time, the deviation from your desired
> path grows larger, requiring more input than you originally put in. The
> possible subsequent over-control can cause more problems than the original
> deviation. (The technical term is pilot-induced oscillation, or PIO).
>
> There is no need to tune your rudder or tailwheel cables to C-sharp but
> there shouldn't be any slop. The springs are there partly to keep your
toes
> and your rudder horn from getting broken when the tailwheel hits a rock or
a
> gopher hole.
>
> In airplanes that don't have rudder bars or some other tie-in between the
> pedals, the slack is taken out by the weight of your feet on the pedals.
>
> Mike
>
> on 4/22/03 15:15, walter evans at wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Had some problems with the plane getting away from me on landing. And
found
> > the tailwheel cables not tight. I know this was talked about earlier.
Should
> > the cables be tight to the springs?
> > I'm flying a rudder bar as opposed to pedals. Trying to find where
the weak
> > spot is. (hopefully it's not me!)
> > Any tips on landing a tailwheel with tall and narrow gear? If I break
a
> > wing, the flying season is over.
> > thanks,
> > walt
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ground looping and loose tailwheel cables |
| From: | Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
That would defeat the purpose of the rudder bar. Besides being a simple way
to install rudder control, a bar also prevents a heavy-footed pilot from
mashing so hard on the pedals that he (or she) breaks the rudder horn. A
split rudder bar would be the same thing, in essence, as separate pedals.
Mike
on 4/22/03 17:05, John Carmen at jlcarmen(at)bellsouth.net wrote:
>
> what if one put two independent rudder bars in place of the single bar,
> Sorta like hinged in the middle, thus allowing feet pressure to take up any
> slack. ???????
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ground looping and lose tailwheel cables
>
>
>>
>> Walt,
>>
>> Loose control cables should be avoided everywhere. With loose cables,
> when
>> you want to put in a corrective control input, there is a little bit of
> time
>> lost in taking up the slack before your input is felt at the control, the
>> tailwheel in this case. During that time, the deviation from your desired
>> path grows larger, requiring more input than you originally put in. The
>> possible subsequent over-control can cause more problems than the original
>> deviation. (The technical term is pilot-induced oscillation, or PIO).
>>
>> There is no need to tune your rudder or tailwheel cables to C-sharp but
>> there shouldn't be any slop. The springs are there partly to keep your
> toes
>> and your rudder horn from getting broken when the tailwheel hits a rock or
> a
>> gopher hole.
>>
>> In airplanes that don't have rudder bars or some other tie-in between the
>> pedals, the slack is taken out by the weight of your feet on the pedals.
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing tank level sight guage.... |
I bought a Stearman guage from ACS and cut it down to fit my tank. I had to
re-tap the plug and shorten the wire to the cork but it works fine.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing tank level sight guage....
>
> Building a wing tank? I just got off the phone with a local pressure
vessel distributor. My hope was that he might supply my fuel level guage
sight glass. I'm using a level guage like the one Larry Williams and others
have used and was detailed in a previous Brodhead Pietenpol Association
newsletter.
>
> Anyway, all the clear plastic tubing I've found turns yellow when immersed
in gasoline. So after FINALLY getting him to understand what I'm trying to
do, he asked why I'm building it and not buying it already made? After all
my usual "nothing like this is made" explanations, he said that yes,
something like that IS made and costs around $40.
>
> The one he showed me is made of brass and looks like a perfect solution!
I'm going to make mine, but if anyone is interested, here's what he
recommended:
> Top Vented Guages, Model 387 or Model 328. Many lengths and NPT sizes are
available and illustrated at:
>
> <http://www.johnernst.com/liquid_level_gauges_p32.html>
>
> Pretty neat option actually, if you want something built out of brass and
ready for harsh environments, this might fit the bill.... They even list one
that's 12" long that could be turned over and used for a fuse tank.....
>
> Jim in Plano
> NX25JM
> Doing a LOT of varnishing these days, the center section is almost done
and I'm having EXTREME fun building this thing!!!! What a joy......
> Build Log:
<http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=52>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Check out MS20001 aluminum piano hinges. They are very strong, light
weight, and will seal the gap between the ailerons and the wing.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Davis
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges
We are trying to decide between strap hinges as shown on the plans or piano
hinges. We went to a fameous Home stuff superstore and loked at the piano
hinges, flimsly. The strap hinges looked ok, but were hot dip gavalinazed,
can't weld. What is a Piet builder to do? Are there any sources for 3" strap
hinges that are not plated?
Barry Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinges |
Walt,
Are your hinges aluminum or steel?
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges
>
> Barry,
> I second this. Just have 11 hours on my Piet, and very happy with the
piano
> hinges. I too bought the strap "barn door" hinges, but just couldn't
bring
> myself to use them. Here is one of the very few changes I made from the
> original plans.
> I did have a big concern to a fact that was brought up during an earlier
> discussion on this. that the long hinge would bind during normal wing
> deflection. Where the wing is not flat but curved up at the tip during a
> steep turn. But up till now haven't run into that condition. I'm very
> satisfied with the Pianos.
> walt
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges
>
>
> >
> > Barry,
> >
> > For non-flimsy piano hinges (extruded and very robust), go to
> >
> > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/pianohinge.php
> >
> > Besides being stronger and easier to align than three or four strap
> hinges,
> > piano hinges offer the extra benefit of effectively sealing the aileron
> gap
> > which provides better aileron response, especially at low speed.
> > There are other online sources besides AS&S.
> >
> > on 4/22/03 12:40, Barry Davis at bed(at)mindspring.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > We are trying to decide between strap hinges as shown on the plans or
> piano
> > > hinges. We went to a fameous Home stuff superstore and loked at the
> piano
> > > hinges, flimsly. The strap hinges looked ok, but were hot dip
> gavalinazed,
> > > can't weld. What is a Piet builder to do? Are there any sources for 3"
> strap
> > > hinges that are not plated?
> > > Barry Davis
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing LE & Landing gear placement |
Thanks Mike,
One more question on landing gear. What wood did you use for the landing
gear struts? Plans call for spruce. I am inclined to use ash.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing LE & Landing gear placement
>
>
> >Mike,
> >Thanks for that info on placement of the gear. Could you add where the
> >front of the wing, or CG falls in relation to the fire wall? This would
be
> >most helpful for all people no matter which version they were building.
>
> Ted- I confirmed over the weekend that my axle is exactly 20" behind the
> firewall (just like Sky Gypsy) but with my fuselage
> being the shorter 1933 version and Frank's Sky Gypsy being the longer 1966
> version. Both handle just fine on the ground and during takeoff and
> landing with this gear placement. I use brakes, Frank does
> not. (tailskid) I'd have to go back out and measure my wing LE aft of
the
> fuselage but I can tell you that my wing is slanted back 4" aft of
vertical
> with regard to the cabane upright struts. We all have to place the wing
in
> a position that suites our needs best--engine choice, pilot weight, tail
> weight, etc. Even among the 65 Cont. crowd I can cite 3 different Piets
w/
> 3 different wing slant-back measurements. Steve E. in Utah has his wing
> back SIX inches. He's bigger than me by a bit. Mine is 4" aft, and thin
> Frank w/ no tailwheel has his wing back something like 2.5 or 3"....so
> gotta pick the number that puts your CG right.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing tank level sight guage.... |
Dick,
Where did you put the gauge? Does it interfere with the passenger getting
in and out? I would love to have a stearman type gauge.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tank level sight guage....
>
> I bought a Stearman guage from ACS and cut it down to fit my tank. I had
to
> re-tap the plug and shorten the wire to the cork but it works fine.
> Dick
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> To: "Pietenpol List"
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing tank level sight guage....
>
>
>
> >
> > Building a wing tank? I just got off the phone with a local pressure
> vessel distributor. My hope was that he might supply my fuel level guage
> sight glass. I'm using a level guage like the one Larry Williams and
others
> have used and was detailed in a previous Brodhead Pietenpol Association
> newsletter.
> >
> > Anyway, all the clear plastic tubing I've found turns yellow when
immersed
> in gasoline. So after FINALLY getting him to understand what I'm trying
to
> do, he asked why I'm building it and not buying it already made? After
all
> my usual "nothing like this is made" explanations, he said that yes,
> something like that IS made and costs around $40.
> >
> > The one he showed me is made of brass and looks like a perfect solution!
> I'm going to make mine, but if anyone is interested, here's what he
> recommended:
> > Top Vented Guages, Model 387 or Model 328. Many lengths and NPT sizes
are
> available and illustrated at:
> >
> > <http://www.johnernst.com/liquid_level_gauges_p32.html>
> >
> > Pretty neat option actually, if you want something built out of brass
and
> ready for harsh environments, this might fit the bill.... They even list
one
> that's 12" long that could be turned over and used for a fuse tank.....
> >
> > Jim in Plano
> > NX25JM
> > Doing a LOT of varnishing these days, the center section is almost done
> and I'm having EXTREME fun building this thing!!!! What a joy......
> > Build Log:
> <http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=52>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | CG of Ford engine |
Does anyone have the weight and where the CG of a Model A engine is? I have
estimated so as to try and adjust my motor mount for a Continental but would
feel better if I had the exact numbers.
Thanks, Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 1" over the Cont. engine mount plans
>
>
> >Mike,
> >When you say that you, "moved my engine out only 1" over plans", do you
> >mean that the rear of your Continental engine is 1" further from the
> >firewall than the Model A would be?
> >Dick H.
>
> Dick---Good point. I'm talking about the Cont. 65 motor mount plans in
> reference to how far out 'over plans' I moved my engine, not the Model A
> motor mount. Glad you cleared that up. I should have been more
specific.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinges |
In a message dated 4/22/03 2:44:07 PM Central Daylight Time,
bed(at)mindspring.com writes:
We are trying to decide between strap hinges as shown on the plans or piano
hinges. We went to a fameous Home stuff superstore and loked at the piano
hinges, flimsly. The strap hinges looked ok, but were hot dip gavalinazed,
can't weld. What is a Piet builder to do? Are there any sources for 3" strap
hinges that are not plated?
Barry Davis >>
Barry,
I used the 3" barn door strap hinges on the ailerons. No welding required.
Bend, drill, and pre-fit the hinges, before cutting the aileron free from
the wing. Naturally, I replaced the aluminum pin with AN bolt that had
enough shank length, cut off the threads, and drilled it for a split pin. I
then put a 3" strip of edging tape along the gap, before paint. Worked well.
Very good aileron response.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinges |
Alex,
Mine are aluminum from AS&S. Not the super duper forged ones just the
cheaper aircraft type.
If hinges from an outhouse is OK, I figure these are fine.
Used similar on a Fisher, and they gave good service.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges
>
> Walt,
> Are your hinges aluminum or steel?
> Alex Sloan
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges
>
>
>
> >
> > Barry,
> > I second this. Just have 11 hours on my Piet, and very happy with the
> piano
> > hinges. I too bought the strap "barn door" hinges, but just couldn't
> bring
> > myself to use them. Here is one of the very few changes I made from the
> > original plans.
> > I did have a big concern to a fact that was brought up during an earlier
> > discussion on this. that the long hinge would bind during normal wing
> > deflection. Where the wing is not flat but curved up at the tip during
a
> > steep turn. But up till now haven't run into that condition. I'm very
> > satisfied with the Pianos.
> > walt
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Barry,
> > >
> > > For non-flimsy piano hinges (extruded and very robust), go to
> > >
> > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/pianohinge.php
> > >
> > > Besides being stronger and easier to align than three or four strap
> > hinges,
> > > piano hinges offer the extra benefit of effectively sealing the
aileron
> > gap
> > > which provides better aileron response, especially at low speed.
> > > There are other online sources besides AS&S.
> > >
> > > on 4/22/03 12:40, Barry Davis at bed(at)mindspring.com wrote:
> > >
>
> > > >
> > > > We are trying to decide between strap hinges as shown on the plans
or
> > piano
> > > > hinges. We went to a fameous Home stuff superstore and loked at the
> > piano
> > > > hinges, flimsly. The strap hinges looked ok, but were hot dip
> > gavalinazed,
> > > > can't weld. What is a Piet builder to do? Are there any sources for
3"
> > strap
> > > > hinges that are not plated?
> > > > Barry Davis
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Wing tank level sight guage... |
Jim writes-
>The one he showed me is made of brass and looks like a perfect
>solution! I'm going to make mine, but if anyone is interested,
>here's what he recommended: Top Vented Guages, Model 387 or Model 328.
>Many lengths and NPT sizes are available and illustrated at:
<http://www.johnernst.com/liquid_level_gauges_p32.html>
The only problem with the one illustrated is that it has neoprene gaskets,
which do NOT mix with gasoline! Be sure to use a fuel-resistant material
for the gasketing and other components.
And as far as the gauge mentioned sometime back on this list and on the BPA
website, I downloaded and printed out the directions for fabricating the
"Stearman type" gauge using tubing and a ping-pong ball (if I remember
correctly). It's nifty!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
Barry,
I chose the strap hinges over piano hinges because I felt they gave a much
more solid attachment to the wooden spars. I just couldn't see putting an
off-center load on a 1/2 inch spar only 1/2 inch from the edge.
I used fairly heavy (6 inch or so) strap hinges, probably from the same
supply emproium you looked at. I ground off the pins, welded the loops
shut, bent, and cut to length. My hinges were zinc-flashed, not hot-dipped.
The advice I got was that with adequate ventilation, the zinc wasn't a
problem. I trusted my source, but not being up on the physiology, I'm
offering this as narrative, not advice. In any case the zinc burned off
easily and left white powder on the nearby surfaces.
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Davis [mailto:bed(at)mindspring.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges
We are trying to decide between strap hinges as shown on the plans or piano
hinges. We went to a fameous Home stuff superstore and loked at the piano
hinges, flimsly. The strap hinges looked ok, but were hot dip gavalinazed,
can't weld. What is a Piet builder to do? Are there any sources for 3" strap
hinges that are not plated?
Barry Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing tank level sight guage.... |
Hi Ted
I mounted the guage as close to the rear right cabane strut as possible. I
am hoping it will be safe as for passangers. Next time I go to the hangar
I'll take a picture and send it along. As soon as I find a petcock with NF
thread it will do double duty as a sump drain.
Aloso I used Doug fir for my gear struts.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tank level sight guage....
>
> Dick,
>
> Where did you put the gauge? Does it interfere with the passenger getting
> in and out? I would love to have a stearman type gauge.
>
> Ted
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tank level sight guage....
>
>
>
> >
> > I bought a Stearman guage from ACS and cut it down to fit my tank. I
had
> to
> > re-tap the plug and shorten the wire to the cork but it works fine.
> > Dick
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> > To: "Pietenpol List"
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing tank level sight guage....
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Building a wing tank? I just got off the phone with a local pressure
> > vessel distributor. My hope was that he might supply my fuel level
guage
> > sight glass. I'm using a level guage like the one Larry Williams and
> others
> > have used and was detailed in a previous Brodhead Pietenpol Association
> > newsletter.
> > >
> > > Anyway, all the clear plastic tubing I've found turns yellow when
> immersed
> > in gasoline. So after FINALLY getting him to understand what I'm trying
> to
> > do, he asked why I'm building it and not buying it already made? After
> all
> > my usual "nothing like this is made" explanations, he said that yes,
> > something like that IS made and costs around $40.
> > >
> > > The one he showed me is made of brass and looks like a perfect
solution!
> > I'm going to make mine, but if anyone is interested, here's what he
> > recommended:
> > > Top Vented Guages, Model 387 or Model 328. Many lengths and NPT sizes
> are
> > available and illustrated at:
> > >
> > > <http://www.johnernst.com/liquid_level_gauges_p32.html>
> > >
> > > Pretty neat option actually, if you want something built out of brass
> and
> > ready for harsh environments, this might fit the bill.... They even list
> one
> > that's 12" long that could be turned over and used for a fuse tank.....
> > >
> > > Jim in Plano
> > > NX25JM
> > > Doing a LOT of varnishing these days, the center section is almost
done
> > and I'm having EXTREME fun building this thing!!!! What a joy......
> > > Build Log:
> > <http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=52>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond if you |
need any.
I will be placing my order for some lasercut parts for my GN-1 Friday.
Because of the way the cut list is working on my order, I will be getting
some extra parts that I will not need. These parts are laser cut from .080"
4140 and also bent where applicable.
I will have them available for a cheap price to those interested.
Parts will be:
3 extra sets - tail wheel steering horn left and right (bolts to both sides
of rudder) $20 per set.
1 extra set - elevator horns left and right $20
1 extra set - walking beam support brackets left and right $15
If there are any parts any of you GN-1 builders need let me know. I will be
able to add it to my cut list. The more parts I have cut the lower the cost
per part is..... so... rudder horns, aileron horns, brace lugs, etc...
let me know and I'll draw them up and put them in with my order.... you can
pretty much plan on about $15 per part... so let me know ASAP!
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.raptoronline.com
Mesa, AZ
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel" <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond if |
you need any.
DJ, did you ask them if they would do 4130. I noticed that somewhere in the
program you could make a special request with your order for different
materials. It would sure be worth a note to them.
-Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond
if you need any.
I will be placing my order for some lasercut parts for my GN-1 Friday.
Because of the way the cut list is working on my order, I will be getting
some extra parts that I will not need. These parts are laser cut from .080"
4140 and also bent where applicable.
I will have them available for a cheap price to those interested.
Parts will be:
3 extra sets - tail wheel steering horn left and right (bolts to both sides
of rudder) $20 per set.
1 extra set - elevator horns left and right $20
1 extra set - walking beam support brackets left and right $15
If there are any parts any of you GN-1 builders need let me know. I will be
able to add it to my cut list. The more parts I have cut the lower the cost
per part is..... so... rudder horns, aileron horns, brace lugs, etc...
let me know and I'll draw them up and put them in with my order.... you can
pretty much plan on about $15 per part... so let me know ASAP!
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.raptoronline.com
Mesa, AZ
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com> |
| Subject: | Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respo |
nd if you need any.
D.J. I'm not ready for any of these parts yet. Would it be possible for
you to save the drawings for use by the group at a later date?
Ken
Gn1 2992
-----Original Message-----
From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper(at)imagedv.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond
if you need any.
I will be placing my order for some lasercut parts for my GN-1 Friday.
Because of the way the cut list is working on my order, I will be getting
some extra parts that I will not need. These parts are laser cut from .080"
4140 and also bent where applicable.
I will have them available for a cheap price to those interested.
Parts will be:
3 extra sets - tail wheel steering horn left and right (bolts to both sides
of rudder) $20 per set.
1 extra set - elevator horns left and right $20
1 extra set - walking beam support brackets left and right $15
If there are any parts any of you GN-1 builders need let me know. I will be
able to add it to my cut list. The more parts I have cut the lower the cost
per part is..... so... rudder horns, aileron horns, brace lugs, etc...
let me know and I'll draw them up and put them in with my order.... you can
pretty much plan on about $15 per part... so let me know ASAP!
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.raptoronline.com
Mesa, AZ
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Carmen" <jlcarmen(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond if |
you need any.
I want Titanium ~!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary McNeel" <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond
if you need any.
>
> DJ, did you ask them if they would do 4130. I noticed that somewhere in
the
> program you could make a special request with your order for different
> materials. It would sure be worth a note to them.
>
> -Gary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond
> if you need any.
>
>
> I will be placing my order for some lasercut parts for my GN-1 Friday.
>
> Because of the way the cut list is working on my order, I will be getting
> some extra parts that I will not need. These parts are laser cut from
.080"
> 4140 and also bent where applicable.
>
> I will have them available for a cheap price to those interested.
>
> Parts will be:
>
> 3 extra sets - tail wheel steering horn left and right (bolts to both
sides
> of rudder) $20 per set.
>
> 1 extra set - elevator horns left and right $20
>
> 1 extra set - walking beam support brackets left and right $15
>
> If there are any parts any of you GN-1 builders need let me know. I will
be
> able to add it to my cut list. The more parts I have cut the lower the
cost
> per part is..... so... rudder horns, aileron horns, brace lugs, etc...
> let me know and I'll draw them up and put them in with my order.... you
can
> pretty much plan on about $15 per part... so let me know ASAP!
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> www.raptoronline.com
> Mesa, AZ
>
>
> This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
> Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
> information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
> <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond if |
you need any.
Gary I am sure they can get 4130. I'll bet the cost goes up about 15%
though. Thier readily available materials are cheap because they have them
in quantity.
4140 is good for parts not requiring welding though.
But, I'll see what they say about 4130.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.raptoronline.com
Mesa, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary McNeel" <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond
if you need any.
>
> DJ, did you ask them if they would do 4130. I noticed that somewhere in
the
> program you could make a special request with your order for different
> materials. It would sure be worth a note to them.
>
> -Gary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond
> if you need any.
>
>
> I will be placing my order for some lasercut parts for my GN-1 Friday.
>
> Because of the way the cut list is working on my order, I will be getting
> some extra parts that I will not need. These parts are laser cut from
.080"
> 4140 and also bent where applicable.
>
> I will have them available for a cheap price to those interested.
>
> Parts will be:
>
> 3 extra sets - tail wheel steering horn left and right (bolts to both
sides
> of rudder) $20 per set.
>
> 1 extra set - elevator horns left and right $20
>
> 1 extra set - walking beam support brackets left and right $15
>
> If there are any parts any of you GN-1 builders need let me know. I will
be
> able to add it to my cut list. The more parts I have cut the lower the
cost
> per part is..... so... rudder horns, aileron horns, brace lugs, etc...
> let me know and I'll draw them up and put them in with my order.... you
can
> pretty much plan on about $15 per part... so let me know ASAP!
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> www.raptoronline.com
> Mesa, AZ
>
>
> This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
> Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
> information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
> <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond if |
you need any.
Ken,
I'll certainly save the drawings. I'll also save the extra parts I will be
getting, but I'd really like to get rid of them ASAP. Tell ya what... I'll
let you have the steering horns, elevator horns & walking beam supports for
$40. It'll be impossible to beat that price if you have them cut on your
own on a small run order.
lemme know,
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.raptoronline.com
Mesa, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Rickards" <krickards(at)cvci.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respo
nd if you need any.
>
> D.J. I'm not ready for any of these parts yet. Would it be possible for
> you to save the drawings for use by the group at a later date?
>
> Ken
>
> Gn1 2992
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper(at)imagedv.com]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com> |
| Subject: | Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respo |
nd if you need any.
Done Deal.
Let me know when they are ready and how you would like payment.
Ken
Gn1 2992
-----Original Message-----
From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper(at)imagedv.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please
respond if you need any.
Ken,
I'll certainly save the drawings. I'll also save the extra parts I will be
getting, but I'd really like to get rid of them ASAP. Tell ya what... I'll
let you have the steering horns, elevator horns & walking beam supports for
$40. It'll be impossible to beat that price if you have them cut on your
own on a small run order.
lemme know,
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.raptoronline.com
Mesa, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Rickards" <krickards(at)cvci.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respo
nd if you need any.
>
> D.J. I'm not ready for any of these parts yet. Would it be possible for
> you to save the drawings for use by the group at a later date?
>
> Ken
>
> Gn1 2992
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper(at)imagedv.com]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: To Flop or Not |
There is a big pile of ribs in the hangar, and I'm starting on the Center
Section. The flop shown on the Scout plans would really be nice, since it
opens up on the left side a little too. But that isn't compatible with the
three piece wing. So the flop can only be about 28 inches wide. I could make
it hinge like the ailerons, or it could be bigger and hinged at the rear
spar. Any comments?
Carl at Compton, with a varnished fuse and tail feathers!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: To Flop or Not |
Carl-- As long as your 3 pce wing doesn't have dihedral I don't see why you
couldn't join your center section flop to a bit of your left/and or right
wing to flop with it. You could fair over the gap just like you'll have
to fair over the wing/cc gap with aluminum you know ? You can also hinge
it wherever you want. Just put in false spars like the aileron
construction and use those for the hinge point. This is a really neat
idea I think. Bill Rewey made his CC wider than plans (but kept the
cabanes the same width as the fuselage so his cutout is nice and wide. You
could do the same unless your CC is already built. It would give you a bit
longer wing is all.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: To Flop or Not |
I'm hinging mine at the rear spar on my GN-1. I'm 6'4" and need all the room I
can get. I've also raised my wing 2" via longer cabanes.
DJ Vegh
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 10:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: To Flop or Not
There is a big pile of ribs in the hangar, and I'm starting on the Center
Section. The flop shown on the Scout plans would really be nice, since it
opens up on the left side a little too. But that isn't compatible with the
three piece wing. So the flop can only be about 28 inches wide. I could make
it hinge like the ailerons, or it could be bigger and hinged at the rear
spar. Any comments?
Carl at Compton, with a varnished fuse and tail feathers!
=
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: To Flop or Not |
Carl,
I built a flop for 41CC and it works well for a short tubby ole man, even
built a 5/8 pipe step for help.
Its built with metal brackets attached to the rear spar, a 1/2 in fake spar
aft of the rear spar about 3 or 4 inches to allow sufficient room for
pulleys, cables and turnbuckles. On this are attached two handles, left and
right, to assist an ole tubby pilot for in and out. On the matching flop side
are two oblong holes to pass these handles when the flop is down. This flop
is piano hinged. Underneath it is secured in flying position with two common
french door floor slide stops.
On RePiet I am not building a flop as the fuse will be 28 in wde and the
center section probably 32 in wide with slant cabane struts. It will have a
cut out ala Mike Cuy and with those widths there should be no problem in or
out for an ole tubby pilot.
Hopes this helps and not confuse.
Corky in La with completed wing and feather parts.
P.S. One very important construction tip. On the round turtledeck aft of the
rear cockpit be sure and double up the plywood surfaces so when you stand up
to get out you may sit on the turtledeck, swing your legs around and slide
down peacefully to Mother Earth without hearing some spltting, popping or
cracking. BPH must have been some long legged Yankee.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Talking about using piano hinges for ailerons (and other control surfaces):
For those who might raise the question about rolled vs. extruded piano
hinges, the subject has come up on various other discussion groups and there
seems to be no structural reason to require the use of the more expensive
extruded hinges. While commonly-accepted "aviation practice" would seem to
indicate extruded hinges are preferable since they can't possibly open and
release the hinge pin, in fact the rolled hinges are mighty strong anyway.
Go to http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/misc.html and scroll down just past
the article on submerged ailerons to see a little test that Mark Langford
did to prove this to himself (if you see the yellow Lionheart, you've
scrolled down too far).
Once again, if Mr. Pietenpol successfully used hardware store strap hinges
for the control surfaces on his airplane, I'd say we could safely use rolled
(or extruded) piano hinges on ours and do just fine. As mentioned, some
consideration has to be given to means of attachment so the attachment
hardware isn't too close to the edge of the wood member, but this shouldn't
be a big problem.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
I was going to build my cs with a flop extending one rib to the left as
Mike C. described, but in the end, I opted for no flop at all in favor
of the weight savings. No cut out either after the talk about the
erosion of flight performance. It seamed that I worked forever on that
#%&* cs doing it the simple way. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: To Flop or Not |
| From: | cat_designs(at)juno.com |
......Bill Rewey made his CC wider than plans (but kept the
cabanes the same width as the fuselage so his cutout is nice and wide. You
could do the same unless your CC is already built. It would give you a bit
longer wing is all.
Mike C.
I believe Steve Eldrige also widened his center section and has a wider flop but
shorted the wing panes by the appropriate amount.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: To Flop or Not |
I used strap hinges on mine,ended the c/s gap fairings at the rear spar and
extended the flop 2" outboard on either side to within1/4" of the root rib.
(leave room for the fabric) Total flop width 31". Flop locks with slide
pins. Not a lot wider, but it makes a big difference in climbing in. And my
cabanes have not been lengthened.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flop...or not |
Leon,
Just a note to say that now that I am flying, there is no way that I could
get into my Piet with out the cutout. My wing is back 3" and I am 210#
6'3".
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks(at)webtv.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flop...or not
>
> I was going to build my cs with a flop extending one rib to the left as
> Mike C. described, but in the end, I opted for no flop at all in favor
> of the weight savings. No cut out either after the talk about the
> erosion of flight performance. It seamed that I worked forever on that
> #%&* cs doing it the simple way. Leon S.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Straight Axle question for Pioneers |
Just wanted a field report before I order my axle material. I am building
the wooden straight axle version. The plans call for 12 gage (.11) x 1.5".
Is this what you used? And, if so, are there any regrets? I remember Steve
E reporting that he had landing gear buckeling because of too thin of
tubing. Just wanted a PIREP if there were any.
Thanks,
Ted Brousseau
Working like crazy and jealous of Walt flying his hours off.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re-Certify NX770CG |
Well, it looks as though I have to re-certify my plane. This is not the news
I was hoping for. After a thorough inspection by an actual FAA guy last
January, he passed it with flying colors, and gave me a 40 hr Phase 1 test
period (non certified engine, and a home built prop that I made) and a 30
mile radius around Benton. I then entered Phase 1 test period, and now have
about 26 hrs flight time. The ol' Model A engine didn't live up to my
expectations, so I bit the bullet and about 5 months ago, began to change it
out for a Continental A65. It seems there is no accommodations during this
Phase 1 to allow for major alterations. The ironic thing is that once the
hours are flown off, and Phase II is entered, there is accommodations for a
major alterations, and a 5 hr test period is required, during which Phase 1
is re-entered. In other words, if I would have flown the Model A for 14 more
hours, and signed it off to enter Phase II, I could have changed it out for a
Continental A65, and fly for 5 hours, without the need to re-certify. This
is a MAJOR set back for me. I now have to pay a DAR $500 to get back in the
air, and start my 40 hours of flight tests all over again because I'm
building my prop for the Continental. I could possibly get the test period
down to 25 hours, If I spend another $700 to $1000 for a prop. This thing
has been a Money Pit. This also means that I probably won't be able to make
the flight to Brodhead / Oshkosh / Wheeling W V this year. I've been planning
on that flight for YEARS!! It seems as though I can see the light at the
end of the tunnel for the past year, but all I've been doing is spinning my
wheels. Sorry about the whining, but I just had to vent...thanks for
listening.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re-Certify NX770CG |
Chuck,
If you had flown one evening a weekend or two ago you could have picked up
an hour of flying when the clocks rolled forward for DST.
Looks like no easy way around this one but to put the A back in and keep
taxiing around the airport for 14 more hours but always with the intention
of flight so it is logable.
chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re-Certify NX770CG
Well, it looks as though I have to re-certify my plane. This is not the
news
I was hoping for. After a thorough inspection by an actual FAA guy last
January, he passed it with flying colors, and gave me a 40 hr Phase 1 test
period (non certified engine, and a home built prop that I made) and a 30
mile radius around Benton. I then entered Phase 1 test period, and now have
about 26 hrs flight time. The ol' Model A engine didn't live up to my
expectations, so I bit the bullet and about 5 months ago, began to change it
out for a Continental A65. It seems there is no accommodations during this
Phase 1 to allow for major alterations. The ironic thing is that once the
hours are flown off, and Phase II is entered, there is accommodations for a
major alterations, and a 5 hr test period is required, during which Phase 1
is re-entered. In other words, if I would have flown the Model A for 14
more
hours, and signed it off to enter Phase II, I could have changed it out for
a
Continental A65, and fly for 5 hours, without the need to re-certify. This
is a MAJOR set back for me. I now have to pay a DAR $500 to get back in the
air, and start my 40 hours of flight tests all over again because I'm
building my prop for the Continental. I could possibly get the test period
down to 25 hours, If I spend another $700 to $1000 for a prop. This thing
has been a Money Pit. This also means that I probably won't be able to make
the flight to Brodhead / Oshkosh / Wheeling W V this year. I've been
planning
on that flight for YEARS!! It seems as though I can see the light at the
end of the tunnel for the past year, but all I've been doing is spinning my
wheels. Sorry about the whining, but I just had to vent...thanks for
listening.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Re-Certify NX770CG |
Chuck---I have forwarded your e-mail to our local MIDO office Chief to see
what advice he can give.
Will forward the info to you direct as soon as I hear from him.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Hello Walt: I'm 5' 6" and around 185 or so. (come on Atkins diet!)
Besides the weight savings, I'm counting on my short size to make to
easier for me to scrunch under the wing and get into the rear pit. I
have set in Chuck Ganzer's Piet and it wasn't that bad. My biggest
problem is hiking my leg high enough to start the entry procedure. I
like Corky's idea about the step. I'm going to look into that. I did
raise my cabanes by 2". I was at EAA last Sat. night when the DAR
lowered the boom on Chuck about needing to recertify. If anyone ever
needed a hug, it was poor Chuck. I just wasn't man enough to do
it....it's a guy thing. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
This is my promise to you. This will be my last negative letter ever. I'm
totally fed up with the fedmen as pertains to the Sport Pilot situation. I
have yelled loud and clear about the reluctance of the feds giving up control
of anything. Examples, more restricted areas, more Moa s. Do any of you
honestly think those Drs in Oak City are going to sit back and surrender
their exaulted power without a fight? Get real.
To top it all off: Received my AOPA magazine yesterday. Look at pg 22, FAA
denies driver's license medical petition. The last paragraph is the subtle
hint of whats to come " In it's denial, the FAA indicated that there is still
some question about whether it will even allow the use of a driver's license
to meet the third class medical requirement for sport pilots". Since when has
the Sport pilot category been elevated into a third class category. It was
planned that it was to be a new and seperate pilot category. More beauros in
action. They remind me of worms and cock roaches, make their passages through
dirty cracks and slime while no one is watching.
Folks, if you want this Sport pilot thing passed you had best get out your
pen and ink and an address book of your congressmen, lick a few stamps and
bombard them with this Sport pilot affair. It is truly said that they pay no
attention to single letters or the ones which are memographed but when they
get at least five, handwritten they begin to take notice. Sad to say but we
live in a political world and all is governed that way. If you leave it
totally to those beauros it will only get worse.
This is my promise to you.
The only letter I will probably write in the future is an ad to sell the damn
thing.
You know who in La and I don't eat crawfish.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re-Certify NX770CG |
Hey Chuck!
Your Model "A" is still the way it was when we put in the back of my little
pick-up -- nothing has been disassembled -- as far as I'm concerned, you
still have "visitation rights" if you want to revert back to "A" power for
the next 14 hours -- otherwise, at the very least we'll have to make you a
really good "human element range extender" (coffee can or funnel) & make you
take a "vow of silence" (no standing around & talking when the weather is
good! ;-) till your 40 hours are flown!
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re-Certify NX770CG
>
> Well, it looks as though I have to re-certify my plane. This is not the
news
> I was hoping for. After a thorough inspection by an actual FAA guy last
> January, he passed it with flying colors, and gave me a 40 hr Phase 1 test
> period (non certified engine, and a home built prop that I made) and a 30
> mile radius around Benton. I then entered Phase 1 test period, and now
have
> about 26 hrs flight time. The ol' Model A engine didn't live up to my
> expectations, so I bit the bullet and about 5 months ago, began to change
it
> out for a Continental A65. It seems there is no accommodations during
this
> Phase 1 to allow for major alterations. The ironic thing is that once the
> hours are flown off, and Phase II is entered, there is accommodations for
a
> major alterations, and a 5 hr test period is required, during which Phase
1
> is re-entered. In other words, if I would have flown the Model A for 14
more
> hours, and signed it off to enter Phase II, I could have changed it out
for a
> Continental A65, and fly for 5 hours, without the need to re-certify.
This
> is a MAJOR set back for me. I now have to pay a DAR $500 to get back in
the
> air, and start my 40 hours of flight tests all over again because I'm
> building my prop for the Continental. I could possibly get the test
period
> down to 25 hours, If I spend another $700 to $1000 for a prop. This
thing
> has been a Money Pit. This also means that I probably won't be able to
make
> the flight to Brodhead / Oshkosh / Wheeling W V this year. I've been
planning
> on that flight for YEARS!! It seems as though I can see the light at the
> end of the tunnel for the past year, but all I've been doing is spinning
my
> wheels. Sorry about the whining, but I just had to vent...thanks for
> listening.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cat_designs(at)juno.com |
Hey Corky, If you can't complain to your friends what good are they? Keep on venting
your frustrations. I'll listen. If it wasn't for you I wouldn't know anything
about this issue.
Wetting my tung to start licking more stamps.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
--- Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
Pieters,
This is my promise to you. This will be my last negative letter ever. I'm
totally fed up with the fedmen as pertains to the Sport Pilot situation. I
have yelled loud and clear about the reluctance of the feds giving up control
of anything. Examples, more restricted areas, more Moa s. Do any of you
honestly think those Drs in Oak City are going to sit back and surrender
their exaulted power without a fight? Get real.
To top it all off: Received my AOPA magazine yesterday. Look at pg 22, FAA
denies driver's license medical petition. The last paragraph is the subtle
hint of whats to come " In it's denial, the FAA indicated that there is still
some question about whether it will even allow the use of a driver's license
to meet the third class medical requirement for sport pilots". Since when has
the Sport pilot category been elevated into a third class category. It was
planned that it was to be a new and seperate pilot category. More beauros in
action. They remind me of worms and cock roaches, make their passages through
dirty cracks and slime while no one is watching.
Folks, if you want this Sport pilot thing passed you had best get out your
pen and ink and an address book of your congressmen, lick a few stamps and
bombard them with this Sport pilot affair. It is truly said that they pay no
attention to single letters or the ones which are memographed but when they
get at least five, handwritten they begin to take notice. Sad to say but we
live in a political world and all is governed that way. If you leave it
totally to those beauros it will only get worse.
This is my promise to you.
The only letter I will probably write in the future is an ad to sell the damn
thing.
You know who in La and I don't eat crawfish.
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Re-Certify NX770CG |
In a message dated 4/25/2003 9:42:20 AM Central Standard Time,
hpvs(at)southwind.net writes:
>
> Hey Chuck!
>
> Your Model "A" is still the way it was when we put in the back of my
> little
> pick-up -- nothing has been disassembled -- as far as I'm concerned, you
> still have "visitation rights" if you want to revert back to "A" power for
> the next 14 hours -- otherwise, at the very least we'll have to make you a
> really good "human element range extender" (coffee can or funnel) &make you
> take a "vow of silence" (no standing around &talking when the weather is
> good! ;-) till your 40 hours are flown!
>
> Mike C.
> Pretty Prairie, KS
>
You know folks, this is what I really like about this Piet group- just plain
good folks . Where else in today's world would a person get this kind of
offer?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Hold on a bit Corky
The rumors floating at SNF were the FAA to announce Sport Pilot at Oshgosh
this summer. I also got that from some in depth readings at AOPA.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Promise
>
> Pieters,
>
> This is my promise to you. This will be my last negative letter ever. I'm
> totally fed up with the fedmen as pertains to the Sport Pilot situation. I
> have yelled loud and clear about the reluctance of the feds giving up
control
> of anything. Examples, more restricted areas, more Moa s. Do any of you
> honestly think those Drs in Oak City are going to sit back and surrender
> their exaulted power without a fight? Get real.
> To top it all off: Received my AOPA magazine yesterday. Look at pg 22, FAA
> denies driver's license medical petition. The last paragraph is the subtle
> hint of whats to come " In it's denial, the FAA indicated that there is
still
> some question about whether it will even allow the use of a driver's
license
> to meet the third class medical requirement for sport pilots". Since when
has
> the Sport pilot category been elevated into a third class category. It was
> planned that it was to be a new and seperate pilot category. More beauros
in
> action. They remind me of worms and cock roaches, make their passages
through
> dirty cracks and slime while no one is watching.
> Folks, if you want this Sport pilot thing passed you had best get out your
> pen and ink and an address book of your congressmen, lick a few stamps and
> bombard them with this Sport pilot affair. It is truly said that they pay
no
> attention to single letters or the ones which are memographed but when
they
> get at least five, handwritten they begin to take notice. Sad to say but
we
> live in a political world and all is governed that way. If you leave it
> totally to those beauros it will only get worse.
> This is my promise to you.
> The only letter I will probably write in the future is an ad to sell the
damn
> thing.
>
> You know who in La and I don't eat crawfish.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Dick,
I promised I would not make anymore negatives so as we say down south," shut
muh mouth"
Y K W in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com> |
| Subject: | Aileron Gap Seal |
The aileron design on the GN1 is somewhat different that of the Piet. This
design has about a 1" gap between the aileron support spar and the aileron.
D.J. has come up with an ingenious method of filling this gap, but I was
looking for something a little easier to build.
The Piet design allows the use of a piano hinge, thus negating the need for
a gap seal. Question? Has any GN1 builder modified the aileron design to
mimic that of the Piet design. If so, how easy was it to do? Seems to me
that the Piet design is just as easy to build and you would not have to
worry about sealing the gap!
Ken
GN1 2992
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Seal |
Ken,
I agree.... I wish I would have thought of copying the Piet design before I made
my ribs.
I say do it that way.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Rickards
To: 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Gap Seal
The aileron design on the GN1 is somewhat different that of the Piet. This
design has about a 1" gap between the aileron support spar and the aileron.
D.J. has come up with an ingenious method of filling this gap, but I was
looking for something a little easier to build.
The Piet design allows the use of a piano hinge, thus negating the need for
a gap seal. Question? Has any GN1 builder modified the aileron design to
mimic that of the Piet design. If so, how easy was it to do? Seems to me
that the Piet design is just as easy to build and you would not have to
worry about sealing the gap!
Ken
GN1 2992
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
It was the AOPA that muddied the waters by jumping in with their new
proposal on top of one already pending for the recreational pilot.
According to my sources in the EAA, the driver's license medical for sport
pilot is still a done deal. The AOPA is just bad mouthing as their me-too
proposal was shot down.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Promise
>
> Pieters,
>
> This is my promise to you. This will be my last negative letter ever. I'm
> totally fed up with the fedmen as pertains to the Sport Pilot situation. I
> have yelled loud and clear about the reluctance of the feds giving up
control
> of anything. Examples, more restricted areas, more Moa s. Do any of you
> honestly think those Drs in Oak City are going to sit back and surrender
> their exaulted power without a fight? Get real.
> To top it all off: Received my AOPA magazine yesterday. Look at pg 22, FAA
> denies driver's license medical petition. The last paragraph is the subtle
> hint of whats to come " In it's denial, the FAA indicated that there is
still
> some question about whether it will even allow the use of a driver's
license
> to meet the third class medical requirement for sport pilots". Since when
has
> the Sport pilot category been elevated into a third class category. It was
> planned that it was to be a new and seperate pilot category. More beauros
in
> action. They remind me of worms and cock roaches, make their passages
through
> dirty cracks and slime while no one is watching.
> Folks, if you want this Sport pilot thing passed you had best get out your
> pen and ink and an address book of your congressmen, lick a few stamps and
> bombard them with this Sport pilot affair. It is truly said that they pay
no
> attention to single letters or the ones which are memographed but when
they
> get at least five, handwritten they begin to take notice. Sad to say but
we
> live in a political world and all is governed that way. If you leave it
> totally to those beauros it will only get worse.
> This is my promise to you.
> The only letter I will probably write in the future is an ad to sell the
damn
> thing.
>
> You know who in La and I don't eat crawfish.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Motor mount hole sizes |
More questions about the plans. I am in the process of building my
Continental motor mount. I just noticed that it calls for 7/16" holes for
the bolts that hold on the engine. It seems that when I visited Bert Conley
last month that he was complaining about his holes being 7/16" too. Aren't
the bolts supposed to be 3/8"? Is there a shim or something that makes up
the difference? Or, should the bolt holes be 3/8"?
Thanks,
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
I just read something from the EAA that leads me to believe that Congress
has already spoken and given the FAA only until this fall to get this thing
made into law.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Promise
>
> Hold on a bit Corky
> The rumors floating at SNF were the FAA to announce Sport Pilot at Oshgosh
> this summer. I also got that from some in depth readings at AOPA.
> Dick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Promise
>
>
> >
> > Pieters,
> >
> > This is my promise to you. This will be my last negative letter ever.
I'm
> > totally fed up with the fedmen as pertains to the Sport Pilot situation.
I
> > have yelled loud and clear about the reluctance of the feds giving up
> control
> > of anything. Examples, more restricted areas, more Moa s. Do any of you
> > honestly think those Drs in Oak City are going to sit back and surrender
> > their exaulted power without a fight? Get real.
> > To top it all off: Received my AOPA magazine yesterday. Look at pg 22,
FAA
> > denies driver's license medical petition. The last paragraph is the
subtle
> > hint of whats to come " In it's denial, the FAA indicated that there is
> still
> > some question about whether it will even allow the use of a driver's
> license
> > to meet the third class medical requirement for sport pilots". Since
when
> has
> > the Sport pilot category been elevated into a third class category. It
was
> > planned that it was to be a new and seperate pilot category. More
beauros
> in
> > action. They remind me of worms and cock roaches, make their passages
> through
> > dirty cracks and slime while no one is watching.
> > Folks, if you want this Sport pilot thing passed you had best get out
your
> > pen and ink and an address book of your congressmen, lick a few stamps
and
> > bombard them with this Sport pilot affair. It is truly said that they
pay
> no
> > attention to single letters or the ones which are memographed but when
> they
> > get at least five, handwritten they begin to take notice. Sad to say but
> we
> > live in a political world and all is governed that way. If you leave it
> > totally to those beauros it will only get worse.
> > This is my promise to you.
> > The only letter I will probably write in the future is an ad to sell the
> damn
> > thing.
> >
> > You know who in La and I don't eat crawfish.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Motor mount hole sizes |
Ted,
You need to use 3/8" bolts to hold the engine to the mounts. The rubber
cones that come with the A-65 gasket set have 3/8" holes in them. The
Luscombe I have has 7/16" tubes on the motor mount and I need to figure out
a way to sleeve them so as to use a 3/8" bolt.
Chris Bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ted
Brousseau
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Motor mount hole sizes
More questions about the plans. I am in the process of building my
Continental motor mount. I just noticed that it calls for 7/16" holes for
the bolts that hold on the engine. It seems that when I visited Bert Conley
last month that he was complaining about his holes being 7/16" too. Aren't
the bolts supposed to be 3/8"? Is there a shim or something that makes up
the difference? Or, should the bolt holes be 3/8"?
Thanks,
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | Aileron Gap Seal |
Ken
I have my GN-1 ribs tucked away waiting my return to the project. I see
no
reason at all not to install aileron spars as in the Piet design and the cut
the aileron free. The result should look as a Piet. I was disappointed when
I first realized the aileron hinge method Grega used.
Question for you flying guys
Has anyone got any evidence that the Model A rad mounting disturbs the air
flow over the center section? The talk about flops has me wondering.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Gap Seal
Ken,
I agree.... I wish I would have thought of copying the Piet design before I
made my ribs.
I say do it that way.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Rickards
To: 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Gap Seal
The aileron design on the GN1 is somewhat different that of the Piet.
This
design has about a 1" gap between the aileron support spar and the
aileron.
D.J. has come up with an ingenious method of filling this gap, but I was
looking for something a little easier to build.
The Piet design allows the use of a piano hinge, thus negating the need
for
a gap seal. Question? Has any GN1 builder modified the aileron design to
mimic that of the Piet design. If so, how easy was it to do? Seems to me
that the Piet design is just as easy to build and you would not have to
worry about sealing the gap!
Ken
GN1 2992
=
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
"cessna" ,
"pietenpol"
| Subject: | RE: Bolts for A-65 |
Bert,
Interesting.
Looking at the parts catalog, the taylorcraft uses AN6-34 for motor to mount
and AN5-31 for mount to fuselage. I remember working on a friend's luscombe
about 15 years ago and there was no way the 7/16" were going to work so we
sleeved the 3/8 with some brass figuring the box the plane came in was
missing a few parts OR that old rubbers from Continental might have come
with a 7/16" hole unlike the ones you get today.
I just looked in the Luscombe catalog and it calls for AN7-37 for the motor
to mount so the tcraft and luscombe are different yet both use the same
rubbers....I would still use the 3/8". Some early luscombes actually used
5/16" for the mount to fuselage bolts and there are only three mounting
points for the luscombe so it is not a strength issue....
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Bert Conoly [mailto:bconoly(at)earthlink.net]
Subject: Bolts for A-65
Hello Chris:
The A-65 setup for a Cub is such that the engine-to-mount bolts are 7/16 and
the mount-to-firewall
bolts are 3/8. I don't know why. The holes in the rubber bushings feel
like they are 3/8 but really a 7/16 goes through them its just a REALLY snug
fit. I found this out at SNF and bought a bolt kit from Freeman Aviation
($28.00) and it had 4 AN7s and 4 AN6s along with the washers and nuts.
Bert
http://bconoly.tripod.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger & Kathy Green <rgreen(at)libby.org> |
Corky -
Please don't stop writing.
I always read your posts.
We need your opinions.
Random ROG
NX899RG - A lurker from NW Montana, where we can see our lawn again.
>
>Pieters,
>
>This is my promise to you. This will be my last negative letter ever.
>You know who in La and I don't eat crawfish.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Motor mount hole sizes |
Here's a possibility that may work.
Go to your local hobby shop and check out the
brass tubing. all the sizes slide into each other.
They're in 12" lengths. You'd probably need
4 sizes to go from 7/16od to 3/8id.
Would this hard brass be strong enough?
Also there is now stainless tubing also in 12"
lengths that does the same thing but the walls
are thicker. I'm not sure if that would get you
from 7/16 to 3/8 though.
Clif
----- Original Message ----- > cones that come with the A-65 gasket set have
3/8" holes in them. The
> Luscombe I have has 7/16" tubes on the motor mount and I need to figure
out
> a way to sleeve them so as to use a 3/8" bolt.
>
> Chris Bobka
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken & Lisa Rickards" <KL0914(at)cogeco.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Seal |
Thanks John & DJ, I have my jig set up for the Grega plans but I am going
to change it to the Piet Design. Just makes more sense to build it with no
aileron gap. A lot less work trying to fill the gap later.
Ken
GN1 2992
----- Original Message -----
From: "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Gap Seal
>
> Ken
> I have my GN-1 ribs tucked away waiting my return to the project.
I see no
> reason at all not to install aileron spars as in the Piet design and the
cut
> the aileron free. The result should look as a Piet. I was disappointed
when
> I first realized the aileron hinge method Grega used.
>
> Question for you flying guys
>
> Has anyone got any evidence that the Model A rad mounting disturbs the air
> flow over the center section? The talk about flops has me wondering.
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Gap Seal
>
>
> Ken,
>
> I agree.... I wish I would have thought of copying the Piet design before
I
> made my ribs.
>
> I say do it that way.
>
> DJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ken Rickards
> To: 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 10:25 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Gap Seal
>
>
> The aileron design on the GN1 is somewhat different that of the Piet.
> This
> design has about a 1" gap between the aileron support spar and the
> aileron.
> D.J. has come up with an ingenious method of filling this gap, but I was
> looking for something a little easier to build.
>
> The Piet design allows the use of a piano hinge, thus negating the need
> for
> a gap seal. Question? Has any GN1 builder modified the aileron design
to
> mimic that of the Piet design. If so, how easy was it to do? Seems to
me
> that the Piet design is just as easy to build and you would not have to
> worry about sealing the gap!
>
>
> Ken
>
> GN1 2992
>
>
> > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
> Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
> information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
> <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
Boy is this list dead. Is everyone out flying or making sawdust?
I just cut out the firewall end of the motor mounts that are made of 1/8"
4130. I use a standard wood cutting band saw with a standard 1/2" wood
cutting blade. I timed the cuts. They were basically 30 seconds per inch
of straight cut. It is called friction cutting. You get it going just fast
enough to create a red glow where the blade meets the sheet. I have been
using this blade for 6 months of off and on cutting.
I report this for those that might already own a band saw and be thinking
about investing in a metal cutting band saw. Unless you need the metal one
for other things, the wood saw does just fine.
You need to change blades to cut wood. After cutting metal it isn't worth a
darn for wood cutting. Of course, you want to open the saw and get all the
saw dust out before cutting metal or have a fire extinguisher handy.
Hope this helps someone save a little $ and shop space. And see if we can
get a little life in this list again.
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Oil lines to manifold on Pietenpol conversion |
Is anyone building or flying a Pietenpol conversion? Where do the oil
lines go on the engine to the manifold? I mean where do you drill and
tap on the engiine to get oil ?
Dennis Engelkenjohn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | Oil lines to manifold on Pietenpol conversion |
Dennis
Are you asking about the pressure feeds to the main bearings or to connect
an oil pressure gauge?
The conversion process is well described in the F&G manuals and in the 1933
plan set.
If you are looking to install a pressure gauge on an A, don't!
It will just scare you.
The system was designed to work on flow to the dipper tray to oil the rods
and gravity feed to the cam and mains. As the oil heats up it flows more
easily and the pressure will drop of drastically.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of D.
Engelkenjohn
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oil lines to manifold on Pietenpol conversion
Is anyone building or flying a Pietenpol conversion? Where do the oil
lines go on the engine to the manifold? I mean where do you drill and
tap on the engiine to get oil ?
Dennis Engelkenjohn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil lines to manifold on Pietenpol conversion |
In a message dated 4/27/2003 8:25:39 PM Central Standard Time,
jmcnarry(at)escape.ca writes:
> As the oil heats up it flows more
> easily and the pressure will drop of drastically.
>
Yeah John, but at least, with a guage you know that it's pumping. Mine starts
out at 10-15# then drops down to 3# and holds there. One of the problems in
the car was starving the front main on long sustained uphill pulls using
gravity feed only. Not unlike a climbout in the plane. Comforting to know
it's still getting oil to the mains even though it's just 3# . Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | Oil lines to manifold on Pietenpol conversion |
Don
Some of the older cars and other equipment had sight tube that gave a
visual reference to the flow.
More reassuring than a gauge, and wouldn't be hard to build.
One line to the sight tube, a small orifice in the top of a glass tube in a
brass cutaway tube,
and a return line to the sump.
A flow meter of sorts.
The gauge in my AA truck has been removed.
I found little comfort in it.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Waytogopiet(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oil lines to manifold on Pietenpol
conversion
In a message dated 4/27/2003 8:25:39 PM Central Standard Time,
jmcnarry(at)escape.ca writes:
> As the oil heats up it flows more
> easily and the pressure will drop of drastically.
>
Yeah John, but at least, with a guage you know that it's pumping. Mine
starts
out at 10-15# then drops down to 3# and holds there. One of the problems in
the car was starving the front main on long sustained uphill pulls using
gravity feed only. Not unlike a climbout in the plane. Comforting to know
it's still getting oil to the mains even though it's just 3# . Don
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 4/25/03 9:42:20 AM Central Daylight Time,
hpvs(at)southwind.net writes:
<< as far as I'm concerned, you
still have "visitation rights" if you want to revert back to "A" power for
the next 14 hours >>
Mike,
This is a generous offer, and I thank you for it. However, I am too close to
hearing the ol' Continental A65 come to life. I've been working on the
cowling, and eyebrows today. As soon as I finish the prop, and exhaust, I'll
be doing the first engine run on my new engine.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | oil lines to manifold on a Pietenpol conversion |
Thanks for the replies, I didn't make myself clear (Again) I guess.
I am using the Pietenpol conversion of the corvair engine. As opposed to
the no fan conversion.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | straight axle builders and the home shopping network |
Group--copying from Frank P.'s Sky Gypsy, I made my axle out of 1.5" OD x
0.200 4130 tube. If any of you get to the point where you need to thread
the ends of your axle for either the hex-castle nut or round on the end let
me know. I purchased the 1 1/2-16 die and have a die handle that I can
loan out (threading oil not included:) You'll need a beefy vise to hold
your axle and some Wheaties but overall not a big job.
Just got off line from http://www.harborfreight.com/ and ordered some new
hand tools. You guys should see the junk tools that have been serving me
for the past umpteen years. I mean I have junk for
tools. Seriously. I finally bought some new stuff and found that Harbor
Freight has been a decent source for the builder on a budget. (and most of
us are minus the airline pilots:)) But they earned it ! I almost feel
like somebody hooked on ordering things off of the home shopping network,
but doing it on the web !!!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | I meant 0.20" wall thickness |
Axle material used: 1.5" OD x whatever you want x 0.20 wall thickness.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fuse change from plans |
Pieters,
Am asking all of you to put on you thinking caps and voice any objections to
what I am about to write. I want tech reasons more than the traditional " BHP
didn't do it that way". I particularly want to hear from those of you in the
know aerodynamically as I would rather avoid creating a hazard.
Tomorrow I begin laying out the fuse for RePiet. I will be using the drawings
for the long one but will vary it somewhat. The width will be 28 instead of
24. The rear cockpit will be 4 inches longer from inst panel to seat back in
rear pit than the short fuse or 1 in longer than the long fuse. I'll borrow
that inch from one of the rear bays.
Also, but not firm, am considering a center section of 32 inches since I will
have a wing tank for those long, long trips. This will necessitate slanted
cabane struts. I have computed the W&B for these changes and see no problem.
A 2 in longer engine mount for the A-65 with the Hegy 7 1/2 lb wooden prop
and cabanes slanted rearward 3 1/2 inches.
Sure, I know you all think I nuts and your probably right but think of the
fun I'm having spending all our children's inheritance.
Will appreciate any and all comments on the subject but try and be nice.
Corky in beautiful Louisiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | "A" oil pressure gauge |
Scary or not, isn't there something in our federal regulations about an oil pressure
gauge being a required item???????? If not, I'll declutter my overcrowded
panel tomorrow!
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse change from plans |
Hey Corky
If BHP were kickin around today the Piet would be going thru some wild
experimentations. I'm not one to comment on the changes in width. But on
my second fuse I got an additional 9.5" on length in the rear cockpit by
moving the seat back 1", reclining the seat 1.5", and using the original
plan for the bridge deck between cockpits. If you want to check it out go
to www.cposeminars.com/plane01.html
This is a bit of a deviation from the piet plan, no fence wire or gate
hinges here.
Dont be negitive,
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse change from plans
>
> Pieters,
>
> Am asking all of you to put on you thinking caps and voice any objections
to
> what I am about to write. I want tech reasons more than the traditional "
BHP
> didn't do it that way". I particularly want to hear from those of you in
the
> know aerodynamically as I would rather avoid creating a hazard.
>
> Tomorrow I begin laying out the fuse for RePiet. I will be using the
drawings
> for the long one but will vary it somewhat. The width will be 28 instead
of
> 24. The rear cockpit will be 4 inches longer from inst panel to seat back
in
> rear pit than the short fuse or 1 in longer than the long fuse. I'll
borrow
> that inch from one of the rear bays.
> Also, but not firm, am considering a center section of 32 inches since I
will
> have a wing tank for those long, long trips. This will necessitate slanted
> cabane struts. I have computed the W&B for these changes and see no
problem.
> A 2 in longer engine mount for the A-65 with the Hegy 7 1/2 lb wooden prop
> and cabanes slanted rearward 3 1/2 inches.
>
> Sure, I know you all think I nuts and your probably right but think of the
> fun I'm having spending all our children's inheritance.
>
> Will appreciate any and all comments on the subject but try and be nice.
>
> Corky in beautiful Louisiana
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Carmen" <jlcarmen(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: straight axle builders and the home shopping network |
Speaking of junk tools. I use a 90 degree die grinder for everything. I
got one about 10 years ago and must have a Zillion miles on it. I paid 19
bucks for it from HF. I give it a few drops of oil once a month if I can
remember and a squirt of grease in the gear box once a year. I got two
more of these grinders for 19 bucks, now I have four of them with a tool for
each.
My air drill is worth 300 bucks so don't go the cheap for airdrills.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: straight axle builders and the home shopping
network
>
> Group--copying from Frank P.'s Sky Gypsy, I made my axle out of 1.5" OD x
> 0.200 4130 tube. If any of you get to the point where you need to thread
> the ends of your axle for either the hex-castle nut or round on the end
let
> me know. I purchased the 1 1/2-16 die and have a die handle that I can
> loan out (threading oil not included:) You'll need a beefy vise to hold
> your axle and some Wheaties but overall not a big job.
>
> Just got off line from http://www.harborfreight.com/ and ordered some new
> hand tools. You guys should see the junk tools that have been serving me
> for the past umpteen years. I mean I have junk for
> tools. Seriously. I finally bought some new stuff and found that
Harbor
> Freight has been a decent source for the builder on a budget. (and most
of
> us are minus the airline pilots:)) But they earned it ! I almost feel
> like somebody hooked on ordering things off of the home shopping network,
> but doing it on the web !!!
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse change from plans |
Guys
The stretched fuselage sounds like a god idea especially for us taller, larger
people these days. Being 6'4" and 230# I realized after some checking
and trying on another guys Piet that I absolutely could not put it on as
Bernie designed it. I was also concerned was gross weight so I simply
removed the front cockpit. My wife said she had no intention of flying
with me in it but she might consider flying it without me in it.
For you guys who have stretched it what do you think your empty weight
is going to come out at? Dick I see you have the basic fuselage finished.
Can you please grab the bathroom scale and weigh it for us?
It seems to me the stock fuselage weighs about 70lbs at the state you
are at.
I am planning to use a A65 continental that I have. I am planing to use
a wing mounted tank so the C of G doesn't move around as the fuel
load changes. Anything wrong with this?
Thx
Les
>
>
>Hey Corky
>If BHP were kickin around today the Piet would be going thru some wild
>experimentations. I'm not one to comment on the changes in width. But on
>my second fuse I got an additional 9.5" on length in the rear cockpit by
>moving the seat back 1", reclining the seat 1.5", and using the original
>plan for the bridge deck between cockpits. If you want to check it out go
>to www.cposeminars.com/plane01.html
>This is a bit of a deviation from the piet plan, no fence wire or gate
>hinges here.
>
>Dont be negitive,
>Dick
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse change from plans
>
>
> >
> > Pieters,
> >
> > Am asking all of you to put on you thinking caps and voice any objections
>to
> > what I am about to write. I want tech reasons more than the traditional "
>BHP
> > didn't do it that way". I particularly want to hear from those of you in
>the
> > know aerodynamically as I would rather avoid creating a hazard.
> >
> > Tomorrow I begin laying out the fuse for RePiet. I will be using the
>drawings
> > for the long one but will vary it somewhat. The width will be 28 instead
>of
> > 24. The rear cockpit will be 4 inches longer from inst panel to seat back
>in
> > rear pit than the short fuse or 1 in longer than the long fuse. I'll
>borrow
> > that inch from one of the rear bays.
> > Also, but not firm, am considering a center section of 32 inches since I
>will
> > have a wing tank for those long, long trips. This will necessitate slanted
> > cabane struts. I have computed the W&B for these changes and see no
>problem.
> > A 2 in longer engine mount for the A-65 with the Hegy 7 1/2 lb wooden prop
> > and cabanes slanted rearward 3 1/2 inches.
> >
> > Sure, I know you all think I nuts and your probably right but think of the
> > fun I'm having spending all our children's inheritance.
> >
> > Will appreciate any and all comments on the subject but try and be nice.
> >
> > Corky in beautiful Louisiana
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)paonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting 4130 |
Thanks Ted, I'll try it. I just bought some 4130 sheet. I forgot all about
that way of cutting steel. I heard about it long ago and forgot.
George Allen
Harrisburg, PA
GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
(Peitenpol builder)
---- Original Message -----
> I just cut out the firewall end of the motor mounts that are made of 1/8"
> 4130. I use a standard wood cutting band saw with a standard 1/2" wood
> cutting blade. I timed the cuts. They were basically 30 seconds per inch
> of straight cut. It is called friction cutting. You get it going just
fast
> enough to create a red glow where the blade meets the sheet. I have been
> using this blade for 6 months of off and on cutting.
> Hope this helps someone save a little $ and shop space. And see if we can
> get a little life in this list again.
>
> Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: I meant 0.20" wall thickness |
Thanks Mike,
What did you other builders of straight axles use?? The F&G manual calls
for 12 GA which is around .11 thick tubing. Has anyone used 12 GA and lived
to tell about it?
Ted
With order in hand just waiting to fill in this last blank.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: I meant 0.20" wall thickness
>
> Axle material used: 1.5" OD x whatever you want x 0.20 wall thickness.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doyle K. Combs" <dcombs(at)ltex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse change from plans |
Would anyone building a GN-1 be willing to share the demensions for the
landing gear set up? I am ready to build mine, but the J-3 gear is
sufficiently different. I really would appreciate having the demensions,
especiall for the upper middle section.
Thanks, Doyle Combs
-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuse change from plans |
Corky,
My fuselage was built in accordance with the "Improved Air Camper" plans
(not the F and G plans) and I made these changes:
1. Widened at cockpits by 2", making for a 26" outside dimension;
2. Firewall moved 6" forward (recommended by BHP himself for lighter
engines);
3. Plywood in cockpit area placed on inside, rather than the outside.
If I were to build another (which I won't), I would still incorporate these
changes because they have proved to be satisfactory for over 30 years. The
only additional change I would consider is to lengthen the rear cockpit in
order to have the instrument panel a bit further from my nose. This has
likely been accomplished by
the so-called "long fuselage"---the plans of which I have not seen. At about
5' 8"
I don't have any trouble fitting the airplane, but don't wish to fly it
more than about 1.5 hours without stopping for a "walkabout". Therefore I
would question the need for carrying a lot of fuel.
The Pietenpol, as designed, is not overly-endowed with fixed tail surface
area. The
directional and longitudinal stability of the four different "short
fuselage" Piets I have flown was only just adequate. The longer fuselage
version having a longer tail arm could show an improvement in this regard. A
fuselage 28" wide could affect the airflow over the tail and require an
increase in tail area. Wind tunnel testing would be recommended, but I don't
think you want to go there. So all I can say is that a 26" wide fuselage
will be OK; I dunno about the 28 inch version. My Piper PA17 Vagabond is
really short coupled with a wide forward fuselage, but its tailfeathers are
pure J-3 and of ample size. Their effectiveness isn't compromised by
turbulence from open cockpits, windscreens and the pilot's head, either.
Placing the pilot further aft and the engine forward for balance could cause
some "interesting" behavior in a spin.
Changes from the plans are common practice, but as Volmer Jensen (the
designer of a number of successful aircraft) put it: "Make one change and
you may have to make dozens." And these could add weight.
Just my 2 cents worth. Cheers,
Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: I meant 0.20" wall thickness |
Ted
For what it's worth since mine hasn't flown yet. My first one has a 1.125 x
.200 and the new one is 1.250 x .120
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I meant 0.20" wall thickness
>
> Thanks Mike,
>
> What did you other builders of straight axles use?? The F&G manual calls
> for 12 GA which is around .11 thick tubing. Has anyone used 12 GA and
lived
> to tell about it?
>
> Ted
> With order in hand just waiting to fill in this last blank.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: I meant 0.20" wall thickness
>
>
>
> >
> > Axle material used: 1.5" OD x whatever you want x 0.20 wall thickness.
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse change from plans |
> >Hi Corky. There's an old piet here that is in
rebuild after sitting for some time. Prior to that
it was a chapter(RAA) club plane for a while I
believe. I can't seem to get any definitive answers
as to it's flying characteristics but in general it is
remembered to have flown fine.
It is 6" wider-both cockpits, standard length,
longer, angled cabanes and longer center section.
Corvair powered. There appears to be some
leeway. If Bernard had been a larger man, what
would the plane be like?
Sorry I don't have more details. Clif
> Tomorrow I begin laying out the fuse for RePiet. I will be using the
drawings
> for the long one but will vary it somewhat. The width will be 28 instead
of
> 24. The rear cockpit will be 4 inches longer from inst panel to seat back
in
> rear pit than the short fuse or 1 in longer than the long fuse. I'll
borrow
> that inch from one of the rear bays.
> Also, but not firm, am considering a center section of 32 inches since I
will
> have a wing tank for those long, long trips. This will necessitate slanted
> cabane struts. I have computed the W&B for these changes and see no
problem.
> A 2 in longer engine mount for the A-65 with the Hegy 7 1/2 lb wooden prop
> and cabanes slanted rearward 3 1/2 inches.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Fuse change from plans |
Hi Corky,
I see nothing wrong in what you are proposing. Bill Rewey has been saying
for years that someone should build a SuperPiet, and it sounds like that is
what you are doing.
A couple of comments:
1. I made my fuselage 1" wider than plans and am glad I did, now that it's
built. It does have noticeably more room than a standard fuselage. I built
the long fuse, but kept the seats where they were on the plans. If
possible, I would not move the rear seat any further aft due to CG problems.
One thing to bear in mind is that a wider fuselage will cost considerably
more in plywood to build. With a 24" wide fuselage, you can get two useable
pieces out of a 4'x8' sheet. With my 25" fuselage, I had to buy 2 sheets
where I could have used one if built to the plans. And there are a good
many pieces of plywood as wide as the fuselage (floorboards, firewall, front
seatback, rear seatback, rear seat, etc.)
2. With a 32" wide centersection and a 28" wide fuselage, there is no reason
to slant the cabanes, unless you really want to. My centersection is 30"
wide, sitting on top of my 25" fuselage, so I have 2-1/2" of spar sticking
out beyond the cabane struts eaither side. Yours would have 2" either side.
Big deal. The only problem with slanted cabanes is making the fittings to
attached them to the fuselage and centersection - just a lot of angles that
all have to line up properly.
Just think things through carefully and KEEP IT LIGHT.
Good luck and keep us posted
Jack Phillips
In North Carolina, where NX899JP now has two ailerons covered and the tail
section about to get its first piece of fabric
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse change from plans
Pieters,
Am asking all of you to put on you thinking caps and voice any objections to
what I am about to write. I want tech reasons more than the traditional "
BHP
didn't do it that way". I particularly want to hear from those of you in the
know aerodynamically as I would rather avoid creating a hazard.
Tomorrow I begin laying out the fuse for RePiet. I will be using the
drawings
for the long one but will vary it somewhat. The width will be 28 instead of
24. The rear cockpit will be 4 inches longer from inst panel to seat back in
rear pit than the short fuse or 1 in longer than the long fuse. I'll borrow
that inch from one of the rear bays.
Also, but not firm, am considering a center section of 32 inches since I
will
have a wing tank for those long, long trips. This will necessitate slanted
cabane struts. I have computed the W&B for these changes and see no problem.
A 2 in longer engine mount for the A-65 with the Hegy 7 1/2 lb wooden prop
and cabanes slanted rearward 3 1/2 inches.
Sure, I know you all think I nuts and your probably right but think of the
fun I'm having spending all our children's inheritance.
Will appreciate any and all comments on the subject but try and be nice.
Corky in beautiful Louisiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
Does everyone go with the turnbuckles and cables, or are there other ways to make
these wires? It just about kills me to order $3000 worth of turnbuckles for
all six Piets. There's got to be a better way.
Does anyone have info on spoke nipples and solid wire? My Jr.Ace has solid wires
with cut threads (I am not builder of this plane).
One of our builders has a PA22 and it has smooth wires and compression fittings
on wing and tail feather flying wires. These fittings just squeeze the smooth
wires.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craigo" <craigwilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drag/Anti-Drag |
>
>
>
> Does everyone go with the turnbuckles and cables, or
> are there other ways to make these wires? It just
about
> kills me to order $3000 worth of turnbuckles for all
> six Piets. There's got to be a better way.
Barry - it is possible to go with solid wires and
left/right threads. I used AN665-21R and L terminal
ends on 3/16 ss wire, with lock nuts. You woild have
to get a LH die . . . .
Best of luck!
Craig
Lake Worth, FL
Bakeng Duce NX96CW
PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart.
http://www.peoplepc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Drag/Anti-Drag |
| From: | cat_designs(at)juno.com |
Have you thought of going to a manufacture and buying in bulk? I would think a
$3000 oder would meet the minimum order. I would love to get in on this if it
turns out to be cheaper and I bet others wood too.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
--- "Barry Davis" wrote:
Does everyone go with the turnbuckles and cables, or are there other ways to make
these wires? It just about kills me to order $3000 worth of turnbuckles for
all six Piets. There's got to be a better way.
Does anyone have info on spoke nipples and solid wire? My Jr.Ace has solid wires
with cut threads (I am not builder of this plane).
One of our builders has a PA22 and it has smooth wires and compression fittings
on wing and tail feather flying wires. These fittings just squeeze the smooth
wires.
Barry
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drag/Anti-Drag |
Cut threads in non upset wires would scare me. The notching effect of the
cut thread creates a significant stress riser and if the ends are not upset
(made larger) then you have also reduced the strength considerably. Given
as how these wires are long and vibrate in the wind fatigue life is
critical. Any motorcycle and old car spokes I have seen have rolled threads
in upset ends.
In bolts you don't particularly worry as they are always loaded in tension
if they are tightened properly and the joint is not overloaded. Often when
a bolt breaks it has become loose first. The shock loading and the fatigue
then cause the failure.
I guess in regards to the $500.00 per plane, your ass depends on it hanging
together and that is fine, just don't kill anyone else.
Regards
Les
>
>Does everyone go with the turnbuckles and cables, or are there other ways
>to make these wires? It just about kills me to order $3000 worth of
>turnbuckles for all six Piets. There's got to be a better way.
>
>Does anyone have info on spoke nipples and solid wire? My Jr.Ace has solid
>wires with cut threads (I am not builder of this plane).
>
>One of our builders has a PA22 and it has smooth wires and compression
>fittings on wing and tail feather flying wires. These fittings just
>squeeze the smooth wires.
>
>Barry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drag/Anti-Drag |
The GN-1 calls for solid wire for drag/anti drag. I'll be doing mine with
that method. The ends of the wires are threaded and have forks. I believe
the Aeronca Champ is the same way.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.raptoronline.com
Mesa, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Anti-Drag
>
> Does everyone go with the turnbuckles and cables, or are there other ways
to make these wires? It just about kills me to order $3000 worth of
turnbuckles for all six Piets. There's got to be a better way.
>
> Does anyone have info on spoke nipples and solid wire? My Jr.Ace has solid
wires with cut threads (I am not builder of this plane).
>
> One of our builders has a PA22 and it has smooth wires and compression
fittings on wing and tail feather flying wires. These fittings just squeeze
the smooth wires.
>
> Barry
>
>
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Drag/Anti-Drag |
It might be interesting to note that the MacWhyte S.S. flying wires all had
cut threads per PMA.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Anti-Drag
>
> Cut threads in non upset wires would scare me. The notching effect of the
> cut thread creates a significant stress riser and if the ends are not
upset
> (made larger) then you have also reduced the strength considerably. Given
> as how these wires are long and vibrate in the wind fatigue life is
> critical. Any motorcycle and old car spokes I have seen have rolled
threads
> in upset ends.
> In bolts you don't particularly worry as they are always loaded in tension
> if they are tightened properly and the joint is not overloaded. Often when
> a bolt breaks it has become loose first. The shock loading and the fatigue
> then cause the failure.
> I guess in regards to the $500.00 per plane, your ass depends on it
hanging
> together and that is fine, just don't kill anyone else.
> Regards
> Les
>
> >
> >Does everyone go with the turnbuckles and cables, or are there other ways
> >to make these wires? It just about kills me to order $3000 worth of
> >turnbuckles for all six Piets. There's got to be a better way.
> >
> >Does anyone have info on spoke nipples and solid wire? My Jr.Ace has
solid
> >wires with cut threads (I am not builder of this plane).
> >
> >One of our builders has a PA22 and it has smooth wires and compression
> >fittings on wing and tail feather flying wires. These fittings just
> >squeeze the smooth wires.
> >
> >Barry
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Barry, This isn't what you want to hear, but I scrounged all of my
turnbuckles at Oshkosh for about 5 bucks each. B & B aircraft of Gardner
Ks. ( Kansas City ) usually has a bunch on hand for around $8.95 ea.
913-884-5930. I don't know if that phone # is current. I know that the
address that I have is no good since they moved. I have a set of those
PA-22 compression tail wires that I'm saving for a future project and
they are WAY too heavy for the Piet's tail. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brants" <tmbrant(at)usfamily.net> |
I noticed a post about cutting 4130 tubing with a wood band saw... Another way
is to use a plumbers tubing cutter.... Although they're meant for copper or
steel pipe, they do work on 4130 tube. You may ned to replace the cutter wheel
occasionally but it's mess free and saves a lot of space in the shop. The
thicker wall stuff gets pretty tough though....
For what it's worth.
Tom Brant, Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: straight axle builders |
Mike,
I just got a private response from a member of the list (who I will not name
since he responded privately) who said he used 1.5 x .065 for his axle. He
has been flying it for some time too.
Seems like anything will work. I wonder if anyone knows of any Piets that
had bending problems with a straight axle. If so, what size? We could then
come up with a minimum size limit.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: straight axle builders and the home shopping
network
>
> Group--copying from Frank P.'s Sky Gypsy, I made my axle out of 1.5" OD x
> 0.200 4130 tube.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drag/Anti-Drag |
You COULD go to Home Depot and get the $1.50 ones that Fisherman told us
about...
Ted
Laughing and ducking and running
----- Original Message -----
From: <cat_designs(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Anti-Drag
>
>
> Have you thought of going to a manufacture and buying in bulk? I would
think a $3000 oder would meet the minimum order. I would love to get in on
this if it turns out to be cheaper and I bet others wood too.
>
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
> --- "Barry Davis" wrote:
>
>
> Does everyone go with the turnbuckles and cables, or are there other ways
to make these wires? It just about kills me to order $3000 worth of
turnbuckles for all six Piets. There's got to be a better way.
>
> Does anyone have info on spoke nipples and solid wire? My Jr.Ace has solid
wires with cut threads (I am not builder of this plane).
>
> One of our builders has a PA22 and it has smooth wires and compression
fittings on wing and tail feather flying wires. These fittings just squeeze
the smooth wires.
>
> Barry
>
>
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drag/Anti-Drag |
Another accepted method, is using 2 struded 6061-T6 "L" of 3/4" x 3/4"
and about .125" wall.
I in one side of the angle you assemble the cable, the other side faces
the side of the other angle already with the cable, make a hole in the
center of the "faces" for a AN 3 bolt and give tension for the cables,
he two faces are safetied with safety wire.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Craigo wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Does everyone go with the turnbuckles and cables, or
> > are there other ways to make these wires? It just
> about
> > kills me to order $3000 worth of turnbuckles for all
> > six Piets. There's got to be a better way.
> Barry - it is possible to go with solid wires and
> left/right threads. I used AN665-21R and L terminal
> ends on 3/16 ss wire, with lock nuts. You woild have
> to get a LH die . . . .
> Best of luck!
>
> Craig
> Lake Worth, FL
> Bakeng Duce NX96CW
> PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart.
> http://www.peoplepc.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Drag/Anti-Drag |
Ted,
Mine work fine. I took the F man's suggestion.
YKW YKW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse change from plans |
Les
I went out and weighed it out. So far 72 lb. with the landing gear brackets
installed. No brake pedals in yet.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse change from plans
>
> Guys
> The stretched fuselage sounds like a god idea especially for us taller,
larger
> people these days. Being 6'4" and 230# I realized after some checking
> and trying on another guys Piet that I absolutely could not put it on as
> Bernie designed it. I was also concerned was gross weight so I simply
> removed the front cockpit. My wife said she had no intention of flying
> with me in it but she might consider flying it without me in it.
> For you guys who have stretched it what do you think your empty weight
> is going to come out at? Dick I see you have the basic fuselage finished.
> Can you please grab the bathroom scale and weigh it for us?
> It seems to me the stock fuselage weighs about 70lbs at the state you
> are at.
> I am planning to use a A65 continental that I have. I am planing to use
> a wing mounted tank so the C of G doesn't move around as the fuel
> load changes. Anything wrong with this?
> Thx
> Les
>
> >
> >
> >Hey Corky
> >If BHP were kickin around today the Piet would be going thru some wild
> >experimentations. I'm not one to comment on the changes in width. But
on
> >my second fuse I got an additional 9.5" on length in the rear cockpit by
> >moving the seat back 1", reclining the seat 1.5", and using the original
> >plan for the bridge deck between cockpits. If you want to check it out
go
> >to www.cposeminars.com/plane01.html
> >This is a bit of a deviation from the piet plan, no fence wire or gate
> >hinges here.
> >
> >Dont be negitive,
> >Dick
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
> >To:
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse change from plans
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Pieters,
> > >
> > > Am asking all of you to put on you thinking caps and voice any
objections
> >to
> > > what I am about to write. I want tech reasons more than the
traditional "
> >BHP
> > > didn't do it that way". I particularly want to hear from those of you
in
> >the
> > > know aerodynamically as I would rather avoid creating a hazard.
> > >
> > > Tomorrow I begin laying out the fuse for RePiet. I will be using the
> >drawings
> > > for the long one but will vary it somewhat. The width will be 28
instead
> >of
> > > 24. The rear cockpit will be 4 inches longer from inst panel to seat
back
> >in
> > > rear pit than the short fuse or 1 in longer than the long fuse. I'll
> >borrow
> > > that inch from one of the rear bays.
> > > Also, but not firm, am considering a center section of 32 inches since
I
> >will
> > > have a wing tank for those long, long trips. This will necessitate
slanted
> > > cabane struts. I have computed the W&B for these changes and see no
> >problem.
> > > A 2 in longer engine mount for the A-65 with the Hegy 7 1/2 lb wooden
prop
> > > and cabanes slanted rearward 3 1/2 inches.
> > >
> > > Sure, I know you all think I nuts and your probably right but think of
the
> > > fun I'm having spending all our children's inheritance.
> > >
> > > Will appreciate any and all comments on the subject but try and be
nice.
> > >
> > > Corky in beautiful Louisiana
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
B&B is good folks to work with. In addition to their great price on
turnbuckles and AN hardware, they have really good prices on leather. I
wanted enough leather to make a couple of seat cushions and the leather trim
around the cockpit coaming. I talked with a regular leather shop and a few
square fet of leather was going to run me over $500. I bought an entire
cowhide from B&B for $125 at OSH last year. Enough to make seats for a half
dozen Piets.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Leon Stefan
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
Barry, This isn't what you want to hear, but I scrounged all of my
turnbuckles at Oshkosh for about 5 bucks each. B & B aircraft of Gardner
Ks. ( Kansas City ) usually has a bunch on hand for around $8.95 ea.
913-884-5930. I don't know if that phone # is current. I know that the
address that I have is no good since they moved. I have a set of those
PA-22 compression tail wires that I'm saving for a future project and
they are WAY too heavy for the Piet's tail. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse change from plans |
Les,
Isabelle has put her pretty little foot down HARD and said, "No, you're not
flying over water to Beliese to drink rum with the fisherman nor are you
going to fly over those Andies". So, I have a 9.3 alum fuel tank which will
fit a Piet center section. I don't remember what I paid for it but you can
have it if you want to pay the dreyage. If you can't afford it I'll pay the
dreyage.
YKW in YKW living positively
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse change from plans |
Dick
Well that is great. I was wondering how it would affect the weight
I see it has little effect.
Les
>
>
>Les
>I went out and weighed it out. So far 72 lb. with the landing gear brackets
>installed. No brake pedals in yet.
>Dick
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse change from plans
>
>
> >
> > Guys
> > The stretched fuselage sounds like a god idea especially for us taller,
>larger
> > people these days. Being 6'4" and 230# I realized after some checking
> > and trying on another guys Piet that I absolutely could not put it on as
> > Bernie designed it. I was also concerned was gross weight so I simply
> > removed the front cockpit. My wife said she had no intention of flying
> > with me in it but she might consider flying it without me in it.
> > For you guys who have stretched it what do you think your empty weight
> > is going to come out at? Dick I see you have the basic fuselage finished.
> > Can you please grab the bathroom scale and weigh it for us?
> > It seems to me the stock fuselage weighs about 70lbs at the state you
> > are at.
> > I am planning to use a A65 continental that I have. I am planing to use
> > a wing mounted tank so the C of G doesn't move around as the fuel
> > load changes. Anything wrong with this?
> > Thx
> > Les
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >Hey Corky
> > >If BHP were kickin around today the Piet would be going thru some wild
> > >experimentations. I'm not one to comment on the changes in width. But
>on
> > >my second fuse I got an additional 9.5" on length in the rear cockpit by
> > >moving the seat back 1", reclining the seat 1.5", and using the original
> > >plan for the bridge deck between cockpits. If you want to check it out
>go
> > >to www.cposeminars.com/plane01.html
> > >This is a bit of a deviation from the piet plan, no fence wire or gate
> > >hinges here.
> > >
> > >Dont be negitive,
> > >Dick
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
> > >To:
> > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse change from plans
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Pieters,
> > > >
> > > > Am asking all of you to put on you thinking caps and voice any
>objections
> > >to
> > > > what I am about to write. I want tech reasons more than the
>traditional "
> > >BHP
> > > > didn't do it that way". I particularly want to hear from those of you
>in
> > >the
> > > > know aerodynamically as I would rather avoid creating a hazard.
> > > >
> > > > Tomorrow I begin laying out the fuse for RePiet. I will be using the
> > >drawings
> > > > for the long one but will vary it somewhat. The width will be 28
>instead
> > >of
> > > > 24. The rear cockpit will be 4 inches longer from inst panel to seat
>back
> > >in
> > > > rear pit than the short fuse or 1 in longer than the long fuse. I'll
> > >borrow
> > > > that inch from one of the rear bays.
> > > > Also, but not firm, am considering a center section of 32 inches since
>I
> > >will
> > > > have a wing tank for those long, long trips. This will necessitate
>slanted
> > > > cabane struts. I have computed the W&B for these changes and see no
> > >problem.
> > > > A 2 in longer engine mount for the A-65 with the Hegy 7 1/2 lb wooden
>prop
> > > > and cabanes slanted rearward 3 1/2 inches.
> > > >
> > > > Sure, I know you all think I nuts and your probably right but think of
>the
> > > > fun I'm having spending all our children's inheritance.
> > > >
> > > > Will appreciate any and all comments on the subject but try and be
>nice.
> > > >
> > > > Corky in beautiful Louisiana
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doyle K. Combs" <dcombs(at)ltex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse change from plans |
If you don't sell it to him, I will buy it.
Doyle Combs
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse change from plans
>
> Les,
>
> Isabelle has put her pretty little foot down HARD and said, "No, you're
not
> flying over water to Beliese to drink rum with the fisherman nor are you
> going to fly over those Andies". So, I have a 9.3 alum fuel tank which
will
> fit a Piet center section. I don't remember what I paid for it but you can
> have it if you want to pay the dreyage. If you can't afford it I'll pay
the
> dreyage.
> YKW in YKW living positively
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse change from plans |
I'm givin' it to him not selling. Check with him, if he doesn't want it or
something, let me know.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Cooper" <blugoos1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | cutting 4130 w/ woodcutting bandsaw |
Pieters & GN-1'ers: I missed the posting about cutting 4130 steel with a woodcutting
bandsaw. I just acquired a Delta 14" woodcutting bandsaw and would like
to know how to slow it down to be able to cut 4130 steel. Thanks, Jim Cooper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: straight axle builders |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: straight axle builders
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ted,
I used 4130 alloy tubing, 1 1/2" x 1.25" wall thickness. I then welded in
the ends some J-3 Cub axles so that I could use tapered bearings and a Cub
axle nut. This assembly then went into hubs for spoked wheels that I made
up.
Because of our altitude, (7946') and the extra weight of the plane due to a
heavier engine, the landings are fast, I have to come across the fence at 70
plus to get any float at all during the flair. Finding this out in the
first few flights resulted in some pretty rough landings and a couple of
excursions off into the toolies. I am sure that I had dropped the plane in
a couple of times from at least 4'. I then sighted down the axle, and sure
enough, it had taken a slight bend from the rough treatment. I then
straightened it out and had no problems since. At least we now know the
limits that this size axle will take! I would suggest this size and you
will be prepared for most any kind of landing.
John NX114D
Salida, Colorado
>
> Mike,
>
> I just got a private response from a member of the list (who I will not
name
> since he responded privately) who said he used 1.5 x .065 for his axle.
He
> has been flying it for some time too.
>
> Seems like anything will work. I wonder if anyone knows of any Piets that
> had bending problems with a straight axle. If so, what size? We could
then
> come up with a minimum size limit.
>
>
> Ted
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: straight axle builders and the home shopping
> network
>
>
>
> >
> > Group--copying from Frank P.'s Sky Gypsy, I made my axle out of 1.5" OD
x
> > 0.200 4130 tube.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken" <av8or(at)infionline.net> |
| Subject: | cutting 4130 w/ woodcutting bandsaw |
"Welders Handbook" by Richard Finch has information on converting a wood
cutting bandsaw for steel.
Ken
av8or(at)infionline.net
kring(at)mountainviewdogs.com
kring(at)irisweb.net
www.irisweb.net
www.mountainviewdogs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
The Christavia, a Canadian design, uses solid wires with threaded ends and
instead of forks uses motorcycle spoke nipples.
The nipples pass through the spar on the neutral axis and bear against
washers on angled blocks.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Anti-Drag
The GN-1 calls for solid wire for drag/anti drag. I'll be doing mine with
that method. The ends of the wires are threaded and have forks. I believe
the Aeronca Champ is the same way.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.raptoronline.com
Mesa, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Anti-Drag
>
> Does everyone go with the turnbuckles and cables, or are there other ways
to make these wires? It just about kills me to order $3000 worth of
turnbuckles for all six Piets. There's got to be a better way.
>
> Does anyone have info on spoke nipples and solid wire? My Jr.Ace has solid
wires with cut threads (I am not builder of this plane).
>
> One of our builders has a PA22 and it has smooth wires and compression
fittings on wing and tail feather flying wires. These fittings just squeeze
the smooth wires.
>
> Barry
>
>
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: straight axle builders |
Thanks John.
This brings up a question. If motorcycle type wheels are going to be used
on a straight axle what is the need for threading a nut. Wouldn't a simple
flange drilled and bolted through the axle be enough?
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: straight axle builders
>
> > Ted,
>
> I used 4130 alloy tubing, 1 1/2" x 1.25" wall thickness. I then welded in
> the ends some J-3 Cub axles so that I could use tapered bearings and a Cub
> axle nut. This assembly then went into hubs for spoked wheels that I made
> up.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: straight axle builders |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: straight axle builders
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ted,
A nut used on the end of the axle can be used to fine adjust the axial
loading of the tapered bearings. It is a similar setup to that used on an
automobile. Simply using a flange and pin setup does not allow this
adjustment and the wheel would probably wobble as it rotated.
John
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Thanks John.
>
> This brings up a question. If motorcycle type wheels are going to be used
> on a straight axle what is the need for threading a nut. Wouldn't a
simple
> flange drilled and bolted through the axle be enough?
>
> Ted
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: straight axle builders
>
>
> >
> > > Ted,
> >
> > I used 4130 alloy tubing, 1 1/2" x 1.25" wall thickness. I then welded
in
> > the ends some J-3 Cub axles so that I could use tapered bearings and a
Cub
> > axle nut. This assembly then went into hubs for spoked wheels that I
made
> > up.
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
| Subject: | straight axle builders |
Ted,
The Flying and Glider shows a flange/collar welded up with 12 gage, and 1/4
inch bolt.
This is for both the Air-Camper and Sky Scout, one with a straight axle and
the other with split axle. The plans call-out for 4 of the collars for the
straight axle.
Seems like you could use different thickness washers as shims to get the
correct tightness.
Skip
>This brings up a question. If motorcycle type wheels are going to be used
on a straight axle >what is the need for threading a nut. Wouldn't a simple
flange drilled and bolted through the >axle be enough?
>Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Drag-anti drag wires. |
The modernized Corbin Aces redrawn by Poberzney use hardware store eye
bolts with the loop welded shut, mounted as described by John Mcnarry,
then cables are used instead of rod. Eye bolt ends are double nutted,
lock nut over a regular nut used as a jam nut. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rambog(at)erols.com" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | straight axle builders |
Shims will not work if you are using tapered bearings. Tapered bearings
must be drawn up tight against the race. The F&G Manual shows wheels with
bushings. Some older aircraft wheels have straight bearings, but most
modern wheels have tapered bearings. I don't know what motorcycle wheels
have, or whether it differs from one to another.
Gene
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Gadd, Skip Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 07:49:47 -0500
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: straight axle builders
Ted,
The Flying and Glider shows a flange/collar welded up with 12 gage, and 1/4
inch bolt.
This is for both the Air-Camper and Sky Scout, one with a straight axle and
the other with split axle. The plans call-out for 4 of the collars for the
straight axle.
Seems like you could use different thickness washers as shims to get the
correct tightness.
Skip
>This brings up a question. If motorcycle type wheels are going to be used
on a straight axle >what is the need for threading a nut. Wouldn't a simple
flange drilled and bolted through the >axle be enough?
>Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drag/Anti-Drag |
John,
This is how my AP suggested I do the wings to get around the turnbuckles.
But I opted to go with original design.
walt
13 1/2 down out of 25
----- Original Message -----
From: "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Anti-Drag
>
> The Christavia, a Canadian design, uses solid wires with threaded ends and
> instead of forks uses motorcycle spoke nipples.
> The nipples pass through the spar on the neutral axis and bear against
> washers on angled blocks.
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Anti-Drag
>
>
> The GN-1 calls for solid wire for drag/anti drag. I'll be doing mine
with
> that method. The ends of the wires are threaded and have forks. I
believe
> the Aeronca Champ is the same way.
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> www.raptoronline.com
> Mesa, AZ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Anti-Drag
>
>
> >
> > Does everyone go with the turnbuckles and cables, or are there other
ways
> to make these wires? It just about kills me to order $3000 worth of
> turnbuckles for all six Piets. There's got to be a better way.
> >
> > Does anyone have info on spoke nipples and solid wire? My Jr.Ace has
solid
> wires with cut threads (I am not builder of this plane).
> >
> > One of our builders has a PA22 and it has smooth wires and compression
> fittings on wing and tail feather flying wires. These fittings just
squeeze
> the smooth wires.
> >
> > Barry
> >
> >
>
>
> This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
> Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
> information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
> <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: straight axle builders |
Good point, it would make a difference if they had tapered bearings instead
of bushings. This thing gets more complicated with each turn.
Thanks for the great answers.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: straight axle builders
>
>
> Shims will not work if you are using tapered bearings. Tapered bearings
> must be drawn up tight against the race. The F&G Manual shows wheels with
> bushings. Some older aircraft wheels have straight bearings, but most
> modern wheels have tapered bearings. I don't know what motorcycle wheels
> have, or whether it differs from one to another.
>
> Gene
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Gadd, Skip Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov
> Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 07:49:47 -0500
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: straight axle builders
>
>
> Ted,
> The Flying and Glider shows a flange/collar welded up with 12 gage, and
1/4
> inch bolt.
> This is for both the Air-Camper and Sky Scout, one with a straight axle
and
> the other with split axle. The plans call-out for 4 of the collars for the
> straight axle.
> Seems like you could use different thickness washers as shims to get the
> correct tightness.
> Skip
>
> -
> >This brings up a question. If motorcycle type wheels are going to be
used
> on a straight axle >what is the need for threading a nut. Wouldn't a
simple
> flange drilled and bolted through the >axle be enough?
>
> >Ted
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
List,
What thickness of aluminum would be the best to cov er the gap between center section
and wing? I have some .010 or .012 but seems like it might be a tad flimsy.
Thanks.
DickG.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Hi Dick,
I used .016" 2024-T3 and it seems about right. That was what my Cessna 140
used in this application. I bought a length of the stuff AS&S sells for
leading edge material.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick and
Marge Gillespie
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fairings
List,
What thickness of aluminum would be the best to cov er the gap between
center section and wing? I have some .010 or .012 but seems like it might
be a tad flimsy.
Thanks.
DickG.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fairings
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Pieters,
You can also get .016" x 4" aluminum in 50' rolls at Tru-Value Hardware for
less than $17.00 a roll.
Works great for the gap between the center section and wing panels. To
stiffen it slightly, you can put a small bead down through the center of the
strip.
Hope this helps,
John
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Hi Dick,
>
> I used .016" 2024-T3 and it seems about right. That was what my Cessna
140
> used in this application. I bought a length of the stuff AS&S sells for
> leading edge material.
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick and
> Marge Gillespie
> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 7:54 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fairings
>
>
>
> List,
> What thickness of aluminum would be the best to cov er the gap between
> center section and wing? I have some .010 or .012 but seems like it might
> be a tad flimsy.
> Thanks.
> DickG.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Piet power on stalls |
I've got 13 1/2 hours out of 25, and been thru alot,,,,did the slips, did some
wheel landings. All went well.
Now on to stalls. The power off will not be a problem,(I think).
But what is everyones experiences with power on stalls in the Piet??? Any strange
things that I need to know?
At what speed does it break?
Oh by the way, Thanks to all who gave advice on the rudder bar thing. Turned
out that the answer was more rudder response. I keep my heels off the floor and
do alot of toe dancing. And above all was to "stick" the stick. got to make
a point of full back stick, and hold it there to plant the tail wheel for positive
response ON the tailwheel.
thanks,
walt
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet power on stalls |
Walt,
Great going on the test flying. When you get some solid numbers, pass them
along.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet power on stalls
>
> I've got 13 1/2 hours out of 25, and been thru alot,,,,did the slips, did
some wheel landings. All went well.
> Now on to stalls. The power off will not be a problem,(I think).
> But what is everyones experiences with power on stalls in the Piet??? Any
strange things that I need to know?
> At what speed does it break?
>
> Oh by the way, Thanks to all who gave advice on the rudder bar thing.
Turned out that the answer was more rudder response. I keep my heels off
the floor and do alot of toe dancing. And above all was to "stick" the
stick. got to make a point of full back stick, and hold it there to plant
the tail wheel for positive response ON the tailwheel.
> thanks,
> walt
> NX140DL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | straight axle builders |
Ted,
I have access to a large lathe and used it to thread my axles and make
flanged nuts for them. The hubs are bushed with bronze and the inner side of
the hub runs against a large washer next to the brake backing plate. The
wheel end play is controlled by the threaded nut pinned at what I think is
the right adjustment about 0.010" I haven't provided for grease seals as I
figure the wheel speed is slow, 21" rims, and it is so easy to remove the
wheel. I may change my mind in the future but for now simple is best.
BHP had a simpler idea he just pinned the flanged washer.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ted
Brousseau
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: straight axle builders
Thanks John.
This brings up a question. If motorcycle type wheels are going to be used
on a straight axle what is the need for threading a nut. Wouldn't a simple
flange drilled and bolted through the axle be enough?
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: straight axle builders
>
> > Ted,
>
> I used 4130 alloy tubing, 1 1/2" x 1.25" wall thickness. I then welded in
> the ends some J-3 Cub axles so that I could use tapered bearings and a Cub
> axle nut. This assembly then went into hubs for spoked wheels that I made
> up.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
I am having a bear of a time trying to build a split axle all metal gear
from the 1933 Improved Air Camper.
Does anyone have any pictures of the jigs and fixtures they used or an
explanation of how to do it?
How do you get the axle to align with the V to attach it?
Dennis Engelkenjohn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | Piet power on stalls |
Way to go Walt!
My instructor, "Dance boy, Dance!"
I learned in the back seat of a PA 12 and then in a Harvard. The rear seat
gives the pilot a little quicker input when that yaw axis swing starts to
happen. Anticipate it. By the way both those guys and the guy flying our
Tiger and Cornell prefer wheel landings if there is any hint of a cross
wind.
Stall testing- haven't been there but I would be patient and climb for
altitude first.
John
Slips in the Piet is one of the experiences that confirmed its the plane to
build for me.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of walter
evans
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet power on stalls
I've got 13 1/2 hours out of 25, and been thru alot,,,,did the slips, did
some wheel landings. All went well.
Now on to stalls. The power off will not be a problem,(I think).
But what is everyones experiences with power on stalls in the Piet??? Any
strange things that I need to know?
At what speed does it break?
Oh by the way, Thanks to all who gave advice on the rudder bar thing.
Turned out that the answer was more rudder response. I keep my heels off
the floor and do alot of toe dancing. And above all was to "stick" the
stick. got to make a point of full back stick, and hold it there to plant
the tail wheel for positive response ON the tailwheel.
thanks,
walt
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
Hi
I built a wooden form that was identical to the bottom
of the fuse, same width, curvature, etc.
1. I attached the L brackets to the above fixture,
which are complete except for the round barrel that is
the center part of the A frame hinge.
2. set the previously made A frames on the L
brackets(Axle tubes are not attached or fitted to the
A frames at this time).
3. grind the edges of the center barrel part of the
hinge so they lay flat on the L Brackets.
4. Weld in place.
5. Wire the A frames so that they are at the correct
angle and so both are at the same angle, or centered
on the jig.
6.using a straight edge from tip to tip on the ends of
the A frame, mark a straight line across at about the
point where the axle tubes will be welded.
7. remove the A frames by removing the hinge pins and
cut off tips of A frames on the line that you marked.
now use a hand or bench grinder and grind in a radius
to match the axle tubes.
8. reinstall A frames on the jig with the cross tie
wires to hold them in the correct position. and lay
the axle tubes in with a long pipe or tube through the
axle tubes to align them with each other. weld in
place (I made my axles to have toe-in adjustment with
shims for fine tuning)
This is a quick discription, the rest of the small
details are on the plans or you should be able to see
as you do it.
Del
--- "D. Engelkenjohn" wrote:
> Engelkenjohn"
>
> I am having a bear of a time trying to build a split
> axle all metal gear
> from the 1933 Improved Air Camper.
> Does anyone have any pictures of the jigs and
> fixtures they used or an
> explanation of how to do it?
>
> How do you get the axle to align with the V to
> attach it?
>
>
> Dennis Engelkenjohn
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
>
Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
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> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
Pieters,
As "Bette" once said, hold on tight this is going to blow your hair.
Have any of you BUILDERS ever considered using Cessna gears on a Piet or
other homebuilts? I have a pair of flat 150s and a pair of round 152s. I've
toyed with the idea of triming the flats, to decrease weight, and using them
on RePiet. The fuse box to anchor these should not be an impossible task. I
don't know, just asking a little advice and/or opinions.
You know who in you know where
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
Dennis,
Make a full sized angle drawing on the workbench, to get the length of each
side of the "V" right, and the end of the lengths fall at the right spacing
apart where they connect to the fuse. Now this is the pattern you are
shooting for.
I borrowed a "chop" saw from a contractor friend. Like a miter saw, but for
metal with a fiber disc blade. Believe me it would be worth it to rent one
for a day, cause they cut so nice.
Now get some scrap pipe that you can cut and keep adjusting till you get the
angle just right. Cut in the center and turn one and stick them together.
Can even go to Home Depot and get thinwall EMT conduit,,,very cheap.
Leave the pieces a little long so after you weld the V, you can make the
final angle cuts on top where the hinges are welded.
As for the axle, This is one of the few changes I made to my Piet. My AP
didn't like the way the axle was welded to the side of the legs with the
weld in tension. Instead I removed the V point after welding and shaped a
round notch that would sit on top of the axle. The axle extended in past
the legs a few inches . This was notched and opened to recieve the bracket
to attach the bungee tube to.
I'll send you a few pics direct.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear
>
> I am having a bear of a time trying to build a split axle all metal gear
> from the 1933 Improved Air Camper.
> Does anyone have any pictures of the jigs and fixtures they used or an
> explanation of how to do it?
>
> How do you get the axle to align with the V to attach it?
>
>
> Dennis Engelkenjohn
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)msn.com> |
Hey Gang,
Been on the sidelines way to long here without building anything yet. I have
a friend that is very intrested in a Piet out in Florida. He found the add through
the BPA sales section. Here is a copy. Does anyone know the gentleman that
built it? Apparently he lives in PA, and has the plane down in Florida somewhere,
and is on vacation, but will be back around mothers day. If you know anything,
I will forward your responses to my friend in Oklahoma. He just received
his commercial rating from Spartan, but would like to get a Piet to build
some stick time in since the airline industry is a little flat right now. I told
him it sounds a little heavy with the running gear, fir, and carpet ect, but
other then that, if any one knows this gentleman or anything else, your input
would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,
Doug Blackburn
(Revised 4/13/03) Air Camper for Sale Constructed from 1933 plans. Entire ship
of Douglas Fir. Corvair powered. Full lighted instrument panels, all running lights,
both seats identical wirh red vinyl covers, red carpeted floors, lap belts
and shoulder harnesses. 6 x 6 tires. Goodyear brakes. Center section holds
10 gallons, 9 useable. Extended fuselage. Ship has been test flown 4 times. Ship
was FAA certified May 2001. Phase 1 time still intact. Joseph Vinciquarra
For photos, send a request by email to bafranks(at)ptd.net
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
Yucaipa California
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com |
Thanks for the good responses to my question concerning the "flop" I'm going
to build the flop, hinging it from the rear spar with a piano hinge. And I am
going to cantilever a little extension of the flop leading edge over to the
first wing rib past the root rib. So there will be a little dog-leg in the
wing which I hope will allow the pilot to just lean a little and go right up
to where he(she?) can get a leg over into the pit. I have a good
reinforcement on the turtleback, so getting in should not be difficult for
the pilot, But it still will require some contortions for the poor passenger,
which I'm afraid will be me!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doyle K. Combs" <dcombs(at)ltex.net> |
I talked with him about the piet. It has a corvair engine, if it is the
same, but not the conversion by William's stamdards, but by Bernards'
guidelines. He was trying to sell the engine seperate. It has great
instrumentation but some one on the net made a comment about it weighting in
very heavy. The price was too much for me at the time and I passed it by.
Best check out the empty weight first, and then make some conclustions.
----- Original Message -----
From: "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: BUyers Info
>
> Hey Gang,
> Been on the sidelines way to long here without building anything yet.
I have a friend that is very intrested in a Piet out in Florida. He found
the add through the BPA sales section. Here is a copy. Does anyone know the
gentleman that built it? Apparently he lives in PA, and has the plane down
in Florida somewhere, and is on vacation, but will be back around mothers
day. If you know anything, I will forward your responses to my friend in
Oklahoma. He just received his commercial rating from Spartan, but would
like to get a Piet to build some stick time in since the airline industry is
a little flat right now. I told him it sounds a little heavy with the
running gear, fir, and carpet ect, but other then that, if any one knows
this gentleman or anything else, your input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
>
> Doug Blackburn
>
> (Revised 4/13/03) Air Camper for Sale Constructed from 1933 plans. Entire
ship of Douglas Fir. Corvair powered. Full lighted instrument panels, all
running lights, both seats identical wirh red vinyl covers, red carpeted
floors, lap belts and shoulder harnesses. 6 x 6 tires. Goodyear brakes.
Center section holds 10 gallons, 9 useable. Extended fuselage. Ship has been
test flown 4 times. Ship was FAA certified May 2001. Phase 1 time still
intact. Joseph Vinciquarra For photos, send a request by email to
bafranks(at)ptd.net
>
>
> Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
> Yucaipa California
> Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com> |
Doug,
Check out "Ask the Authority" on William Wynns web site. There is a question
to William regarding a Piet for sale in Florida (dated 4/20/03)
William thinks the seller is a Joseph Vince, and his comments make
interesting reading to say the least.
Rod Wooller
Chidlow
Australia
>From: "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)msn.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "Pietenpol List"
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: BUyers Info
>Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 16:38:49 -0700
>
>
>Hey Gang,
> Been on the sidelines way to long here without building anything yet.
>I have a friend that is very intrested in a Piet out in Florida. He found
>the add through the BPA sales section. Here is a copy. Does anyone know the
>gentleman that built it? Apparently he lives in PA, and has the plane down
>in Florida somewhere, and is on vacation, but will be back around mothers
>day. If you know anything, I will forward your responses to my friend in
>Oklahoma. He just received his commercial rating from Spartan, but would
>like to get a Piet to build some stick time in since the airline industry
>is a little flat right now. I told him it sounds a little heavy with the
>running gear, fir, and carpet ect, but other then that, if any one knows
>this gentleman or anything else, your input would be greatly appreciated.
>Thanks,
>
>Doug Blackburn
>
>(Revised 4/13/03) Air Camper for Sale Constructed from 1933 plans. Entire
>ship of Douglas Fir. Corvair powered. Full lighted instrument panels, all
>running lights, both seats identical wirh red vinyl covers, red carpeted
>floors, lap belts and shoulder harnesses. 6 x 6 tires. Goodyear brakes.
>Center section holds 10 gallons, 9 useable. Extended fuselage. Ship has
>been test flown 4 times. Ship was FAA certified May 2001. Phase 1 time
>still intact. Joseph Vinciquarra For photos, send a request by email to
>bafranks(at)ptd.net
>
>
>Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
>Yucaipa California
>Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
>
>
Hotmail now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to
http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_mobile.asp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
The red Piet in FL that was asked about is definitely NOT a plane to buy. I have
spoken to two friends in FL over the course of a couple of years and the subject
of "Preacher Joe's" Piet has come up. Both agree that the best thing to happen
is for it to burn in a hangar fire. Unfortunately, he doesn't have a hangar.
The airplane is EXTREMELY heavy. (It's built maybe one step up the sophistication
ladder from Fishman) In Joe's mind, the fix for it's weight was to add a couple
more bays to the wing to lift the hulk off the ground. This necessitated
the lift struts mounts moving outward to keep the lengthened wings from drooping
under their own weight so, a couple more jury struts were added, etc..............
are you getting the idea? Upholstery? Carpeting?
One of the test pilots said that it was the scariest flight he had ever had and
he wouldn't fly it again. The owners' best decision was to take the engine off
(mechanical problems) so as to make the airframe unflyable!!
This one would better be left alone and a collective prayer go up from the group
for a sink-hole to open up exactly where it is sitting or some other natural
disaster to keep any unwary soul from buying this thing and getting hurt.
But.............that is just my own humble and fairly reserved opinion.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)msn.com> |
Larry and others,
Thank you for your reply to the Florida Piet. I have sent those replies
to my friend in OK. He obviously is not going to buy it. I knew if anyone
knew about it, I would find the answer for him here on the list. Thanks for
all your help and direction. Put this one to bed gentelmen. Thanks again,
Doug Blackburn
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
Yucaipa California
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Joe's Piet
>
> The red Piet in FL that was asked about is definitely NOT a plane to buy.
I have spoken to two friends in FL over the course of a couple of years and
the subject of "Preacher Joe's" Piet has come up. Both agree that the best
thing to happen is for it to burn in a hangar fire. Unfortunately, he
doesn't have a hangar.
>
> The airplane is EXTREMELY heavy. (It's built maybe one step up the
sophistication ladder from Fishman) In Joe's mind, the fix for it's weight
was to add a couple more bays to the wing to lift the hulk off the ground.
This necessitated the lift struts mounts moving outward to keep the
lengthened wings from drooping under their own weight so, a couple more jury
struts were added, etc.............. are you getting the idea? Upholstery?
Carpeting?
>
> One of the test pilots said that it was the scariest flight he had ever
had and he wouldn't fly it again. The owners' best decision was to take the
engine off (mechanical problems) so as to make the airframe unflyable!!
>
> This one would better be left alone and a collective prayer go up from the
group for a sink-hole to open up exactly where it is sitting or some other
natural disaster to keep any unwary soul from buying this thing and getting
hurt.
>
> But.............that is just my own humble and fairly reserved opinion.
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Corky: I toyed with the ides once, but that was about it. I had a set of
Cessna gear legs at one time. They have a small mounting area that I
felt (although I'm not an engineer) could be easily be ripped out of
wood in a hard landing. So you would need to add a large steel plate
under the floor board to spread the mount load over a larger area. I
think you would also need to weld this steel plate to another piece
that you would want to run up the outside of the fuselage and tie it
into some of the fus. bracing. I think it could be done. I never weighed
the Cessna gear, but my tube gear legs are lighter. Leon S. Hutchinson
Ks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
The airplane you are speaking about (built by Joe Vinciquarra in 1991) is
currently registered to Joe, whose address is P. O. Box 7063 in Sussex NJ
07462.
I do not know any more about the machine or about Joe. If it was built in
1991 and has only had 4 test flights, there must be a reason.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I ran into Joe the other day. He's up in the NJ area and stopped in to see
my Pietenpol. He was telling me about His plane some. Seems he was
surprised at how light mine was empty at 595#, seems his is in the mid
800# range. Since I'm a fan of Poly Fiber , I was surprised to hear that
his paint process was a case of Krylon. Oh well,,,guess thats why they call
it "experimental".
walt
glad in the end that I didn't cut corners, and built to the plans
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc Mosher" <docshop(at)tds.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: N3141J
>
> The airplane you are speaking about (built by Joe Vinciquarra in 1991) is
> currently registered to Joe, whose address is P. O. Box 7063 in Sussex NJ
> 07462.
>
> I do not know any more about the machine or about Joe. If it was built in
> 1991 and has only had 4 test flights, there must be a reason.
>
> Doc Mosher
> Oshkosh USA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
Hi, When I built my landing gear, I put the fusulage upside down, mounted
a 4 by 8 sheet of plywood on top, drew the lines of the vertical members,
wired the axles to the sheet and tacked the tubes in place. Of course I have
not flown yet but it seems good. Might help,
Ken Conrad in wet Iowa with my corn planted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com |
Thanks for the good responses to my question concerning the "flop". You all
had many good suggestions. I'm going to build the flop, hinging it from the
rear spar with a piano hinge. And I am going to cantilever a little extension
of the flop leading edge over to the first wing rib past the root rib. So
there will be a little dog-leg in the wing which I hope will allow the pilot
to just lean a little and go right up to where he(she?) can get a leg over
into the pit. I have a good reinforcement on the turtleback, so getting in
should not be difficult for the pilot, But it still will require some
contortions for the poor passenger, which I'm afraid will be me!
Anyway, thanks a lot! Carl from Compton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet power on stalls |
Walt,
I decided to try a power stall on Saturday. I realized I had never done one
in the Piet. I am not sure I have anything useful to report. I pushed full
power and slowly pulled back. I can't tell you the angle of climb but it
felt a little like a rocket. Not speed - angle - don't get too excited. I
got it back to 40 mph and it didn't seem to want to stall. I think it
finally "stalled". Never fell off or anything definitive. Just hung there
and didn't seem to do anything.
I was flying on a short trip with another plane and didn't want to linger
too long so I dropped the nose and headed on. I had climbed 1000' while
trying to stall it. I will do more on another day when I have time to
experiment some more.
How was your experience?
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet power on stalls
>
> I've got 13 1/2 hours out of 25, and been thru alot,,,,did the slips, did
some wheel landings. All went well.
> Now on to stalls. The power off will not be a problem,(I think).
> But what is everyones experiences with power on stalls in the Piet??? Any
strange things that I need to know?
> At what speed does it break?
>
> Oh by the way, Thanks to all who gave advice on the rudder bar thing.
Turned out that the answer was more rudder response. I keep my heels off
the floor and do alot of toe dancing. And above all was to "stick" the
stick. got to make a point of full back stick, and hold it there to plant
the tail wheel for positive response ON the tailwheel.
> thanks,
> walt
> NX140DL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear conversion |
I am thinking of converting from a split axle to a straight axle landing
gear. I already have the landing gear fuselage fittings installed for the
split axle. Does anyone see any problem of using them and building fittings
at the top of the straight axle gear that would have 5/16" pins attaching
them to the fuselage fittings just like the split axle gear?
Thanks for your thoughts,
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
I have found the perfect cleaner for washing your hands and tools clean of
gooey T-88 resin.
Brake Parts cleaner.... get a spray can from your autoparts store and use
it to clean your hands and such after mixing up a batch. Cuts right through
and cleans perfectly!
Make sure you wash your hands with soap afterwards to rinse off the brake
cleaner.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.raptoronline.com
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: T-88 cleanup |
I dont know what kind of solvents are in brake parts cleaner but they may
not be too friendly. Many auto parts stores are now carrying Scrubs in a
Bucket. They are towletts with a degreasser. They remove the T-88 and are
safe on the skin.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
>
> I have found the perfect cleaner for washing your hands and tools clean of
> gooey T-88 resin.
>
> Brake Parts cleaner.... get a spray can from your autoparts store and
use
> it to clean your hands and such after mixing up a batch. Cuts right
through
> and cleans perfectly!
>
> Make sure you wash your hands with soap afterwards to rinse off the brake
> cleaner.
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> www.raptoronline.com
>
>
> This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
<http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
I have actually had real good luck cleaning T-88 off my hands with soap and
warm water.
Skip
-----Original Message-----
From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper(at)imagedv.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
I have found the perfect cleaner for washing your hands and tools clean of
gooey T-88 resin.
Brake Parts cleaner.... get a spray can from your autoparts store and use
it to clean your hands and such after mixing up a batch. Cuts right through
and cleans perfectly!
Make sure you wash your hands with soap afterwards to rinse off the brake
cleaner.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.raptoronline.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: T-88 cleanup |
Pieters,
Woke this morning to read all this good stuff about cleaning up T-88, which
is real good stuff. Ocassionally I have to revert to my old tried and true
paint and varnish remover to get these old paws clean. My bride has made some
comments while sitting in the moonlight that my hands aren't as nice and soft
as they should be. Could that be the problem?
YKW in YKW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com> |
There is an easier way to get your hands clean. I have made a point of
wearing a good fitting pair of surgical latex gloves, I get these from a
local boat builder. For my tools, I wipe the excess off with shop towels
and then wipe them down with a cloth and some paint & varnish remover.
I use small mixing cups for the glue so I just throw them away along with
the mixing sticks ( popsicle sticks) so my clean up is very light.
Just throwing in my 10 cents worth,(7.5 cents Canadian)
I have also just updated my web site for anyone that's interested, added
engine.
http://home.cogeco.ca/%7Epietbuilder/index.htm
Ken
GN1 2992
Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: T-88 cleanup |
I found that "Fast Orange", the hand cleaner in the orange-colored jug works
great at removing T-88.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: T-88 cleanup |
DJ,
I had a serious reaction to the T-88 glue last fall. Do you think using
invisible gloves would preclude this occurring again?
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
>
> I have found the perfect cleaner for washing your hands and tools clean of
> gooey T-88 resin.
>
> Brake Parts cleaner.... get a spray can from your autoparts store and
use
> it to clean your hands and such after mixing up a batch. Cuts right
through
> and cleans perfectly!
>
> Make sure you wash your hands with soap afterwards to rinse off the brake
> cleaner.
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> www.raptoronline.com
>
>
> This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
<http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Group--- upon the tip of a book or person I used paper towels and vinegar
to remove the T-88 from my
hands.
You know you are REALLY into the building process when you take a shower
and you wash your hair and
you find a little clump of T-88 that got there somehow and is holding five
or six strands of hair hostage from being
washed or brushed thru. Cut a few of those dabs out of my hair over the
4.5 years building !!!!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear conversion |
Ted
I have never seen the straight axle plans so I am not sure what I am
talking about.
Just one comment though. The swing axles have the bungee on the cross struts
which allows the axles to swing out as the weight comes on. I don't think the
straight axle will let this happen. It would seem to me that the bungee would
have to be some where else in the system. I suppose if you made the axle so it
would telescope the suspension would work but that sounds complicated.
I am sure if I am all wrong someone will tell me in no uncertain terms.
Les
>
>I am thinking of converting from a split axle to a straight axle landing
>gear. I already have the landing gear fuselage fittings installed for the
>split axle. Does anyone see any problem of using them and building fittings
>at the top of the straight axle gear that would have 5/16" pins attaching
>them to the fuselage fittings just like the split axle gear?
>
>Thanks for your thoughts,
>Ted
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edwin Johnson <elj(at)shreve.net> |
| Subject: | Piet power on stalls |
Hello Ted & Walt,
> I decided to try a power stall on Saturday. I realized I had never done one
> power and slowly pulled back. I can't tell you the angle of climb but it
> felt a little like a rocket. Not speed - angle - don't get too excited. I
> got it back to 40 mph and it didn't seem to want to stall. I think it
> finally "stalled". Never fell off or anything definitive. Just hung there
> too long so I dropped the nose and headed on. I had climbed 1000' while
> trying to stall it. I will do more on another day when I have time to
Guess I'm duty-bound to say that you should be above 1000' for stalls,
especially power on, if you've never done them in that plane in order to
have time for any 'unexpected' happenings. Now having fulfilled that
responsibility.... :)
Corky's plane, which apparently is rigged well and the wash on the wings
is the same, tends to stall straight ahead in both power off and power on
stalls. With the power off you can really do a 'falling leaf' sort of
thing with the rudder it is so stable. The power on requires a hefty angle
for stall unless you really come back quickly on the stick. I put it
through all kinds of stalls including accelerated and noticed no bad
habits whatsoever. This must be a benefit of a good wing design.
Speeds will vary as to accuracy of A/S indicator and airplane, so that
sort of thing is relevant only in each particular airplane. But my feeling
is that you should know your own plane and at what speeds it stalls in all
sort of configurations. Remember that with a passenger these things will
change somewhat, but with Corky and me both in the plane we saw no ill
manners.
One last thing: differences in wing wash on each side or differences in
rigging of the horizontal stab will effect what happens during stalls, so
look carefully at those. (Corky will attest to my 'critical' eye. haahaa)
Hope this rambling helps a little. Don't be afraid to experiment and
search out the parameters of your plane, but do have altitude as your 'way
out' for whatever might happen.
...Edwin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Edwin Johnson ....... elj(at)shreve.net ~
~ http://www.shreve.net/~elj ~
~ ~
~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the ~
~ earth with your eyes turned skyward, ~
~ for there you have been, there you long ~
~ to return." -- da Vinci ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet power on stalls |
I think he meant he climbed 1000' during the entry to the stall.... not started
the stall at 100' agl.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Edwin Johnson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:06 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet power on stalls
Hello Ted & Walt,
> I decided to try a power stall on Saturday. I realized I had never done one
> power and slowly pulled back. I can't tell you the angle of climb but it
> felt a little like a rocket. Not speed - angle - don't get too excited. I
> got it back to 40 mph and it didn't seem to want to stall. I think it
> finally "stalled". Never fell off or anything definitive. Just hung there
> too long so I dropped the nose and headed on. I had climbed 1000' while
> trying to stall it. I will do more on another day when I have time to
Guess I'm duty-bound to say that you should be above 1000' for stalls,
especially power on, if you've never done them in that plane in order to
have time for any 'unexpected' happenings. Now having fulfilled that
responsibility.... :)
Corky's plane, which apparently is rigged well and the wash on the wings
is the same, tends to stall straight ahead in both power off and power on
stalls. With the power off you can really do a 'falling leaf' sort of
thing with the rudder it is so stable. The power on requires a hefty angle
for stall unless you really come back quickly on the stick. I put it
through all kinds of stalls including accelerated and noticed no bad
habits whatsoever. This must be a benefit of a good wing design.
Speeds will vary as to accuracy of A/S indicator and airplane, so that
sort of thing is relevant only in each particular airplane. But my feeling
is that you should know your own plane and at what speeds it stalls in all
sort of configurations. Remember that with a passenger these things will
change somewhat, but with Corky and me both in the plane we saw no ill
manners.
One last thing: differences in wing wash on each side or differences in
rigging of the horizontal stab will effect what happens during stalls, so
look carefully at those. (Corky will attest to my 'critical' eye. haahaa)
Hope this rambling helps a little. Don't be afraid to experiment and
search out the parameters of your plane, but do have altitude as your 'way
out' for whatever might happen.
...Edwin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Edwin Johnson ....... elj(at)shreve.net ~
~ http://www.shreve.net/~elj ~
~ ~
~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the ~
~ earth with your eyes turned skyward, ~
~ for there you have been, there you long ~
~ to return." -- da Vinci ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel" <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
So does vinegar.
-Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
TomTravis(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
I found that "Fast Orange", the hand cleaner in the orange-colored jug works
great at removing T-88.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Landing gear conversion |
Ted,
You might want to invest in a set of Pete Bowers' Fly Baby plans. I believe
the arrangement you are talking about is very similar to the gear
construction on a Fly Baby. The Fly Baby (I believe) uses fittings that
have a heavy bolt essentially parallel to the flat plane of the landing gear
strut going through fittings attached to the fuselage. The bracing wires
and spreader bars supply the rigidity to the system, just as the F&G
Pietenpol plans do. This is not a bad setup, and is probably better than
the original F&G plans. I don't care for the design BHP showed in those
plans for the fuselage attach fittings, and modified mine substantially to
carry the loads better. I never heard of a Fly Baby having landing gear
problems - wings falling off due to unequal tension in the paired flying
wires, but not gear problems.
Incidentally, Pete Bowers died last week. He was a good designer and a real
expert on rare antique aircraft.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted
Brousseau
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear conversion
I am thinking of converting from a split axle to a straight axle landing
gear. I already have the landing gear fuselage fittings installed for the
split axle. Does anyone see any problem of using them and building fittings
at the top of the straight axle gear that would have 5/16" pins attaching
them to the fuselage fittings just like the split axle gear?
Thanks for your thoughts,
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: T-88 cleanup |
Ken,
Latex gloves sold in the paint dept of Wal-Mart is what I used when I
built my wood ultralight. I sprinkled talc on them when I was done before I
took them off. I could re use them 3 or 4 times. I never had to clean T88
off my hands.
Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Rickards" <krickards(at)cvci.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
>
> There is an easier way to get your hands clean. I have made a point of
> wearing a good fitting pair of surgical latex gloves, I get these from a
> local boat builder. For my tools, I wipe the excess off with shop towels
> and then wipe them down with a cloth and some paint & varnish remover.
>
> I use small mixing cups for the glue so I just throw them away along with
> the mixing sticks ( popsicle sticks) so my clean up is very light.
>
> Just throwing in my 10 cents worth,(7.5 cents Canadian)
>
> I have also just updated my web site for anyone that's interested, added
> engine.
>
> http://home.cogeco.ca/%7Epietbuilder/index.htm
>
>
> Ken
>
>
> GN1 2992
> Canada
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: white vinegar |
I agree with Mike. Plain ole white vinegar cuts through T88 fast. It is
not only kind to your body but it does a great job of cleaning brushes and
other tools you might use. Doesn't take much. A gallon will last the whole
project.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: white vinegar
>
> Group--- upon the tip of a book or person I used paper towels and vinegar
> to remove the T-88 from my
> hands.
>
> You know you are REALLY into the building process when you take a shower
> and you wash your hair and
> you find a little clump of T-88 that got there somehow and is holding five
> or six strands of hair hostage from being
> washed or brushed thru. Cut a few of those dabs out of my hair over the
> 4.5 years building !!!!
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet power on stalls |
Thank you DJ. That is exactly what I meant. Actually, I just read today
that the FAA considers a stall an aerobatic maneuver and requires a
completion above 1500'. I agree with the 1500' for safety reasons. I am
not sure I am ready to agree that a stall is an aerobatic maneuver. Guess
it is similar to modern day definition of a "major" repair...
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet power on stalls
>
> I think he meant he climbed 1000' during the entry to the stall.... not
started the stall at 100' agl.
>
> DJ
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear conversion |
Thanks Jack,
By the way I looked at a picture of your gear legs. Wow, are they nice.
What kind of wood did you use. Any other pictures showing the attach
fittings?
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear conversion
>
> Ted,
>
> You might want to invest in a set of Pete Bowers' Fly Baby plans. I
believe
> the arrangement you are talking about is very similar to the gear
> construction on a Fly Baby. The Fly Baby (I believe) uses fittings that
> have a heavy bolt essentially parallel to the flat plane of the landing
gear
> strut going through fittings attached to the fuselage. The bracing wires
> and spreader bars supply the rigidity to the system, just as the F&G
> Pietenpol plans do. This is not a bad setup, and is probably better than
> the original F&G plans. I don't care for the design BHP showed in those
> plans for the fuselage attach fittings, and modified mine substantially to
> carry the loads better. I never heard of a Fly Baby having landing gear
> problems - wings falling off due to unequal tension in the paired flying
> wires, but not gear problems.
>
> Incidentally, Pete Bowers died last week. He was a good designer and a
real
> expert on rare antique aircraft.
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted
> Brousseau
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 10:47 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear conversion
>
>
> I am thinking of converting from a split axle to a straight axle landing
> gear. I already have the landing gear fuselage fittings installed for the
> split axle. Does anyone see any problem of using them and building
fittings
> at the top of the straight axle gear that would have 5/16" pins attaching
> them to the fuselage fittings just like the split axle gear?
>
> Thanks for your thoughts,
> Ted
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | Landing gear conversion |
I am sad to hear of another of the early greats in home building passing.
The gear as in the F&G is well braced as the front view shows.
The cross bracing of the gear legs, in tension with cables, is held in
compression by the horizontal spreader bars each side of the axle.
As you have indicated Jack, a very stout design!
The only catch I see is that the inclusion of brakes to the design requires
some method of preventing axle rotation.
Mike Cuy has a very neat solution to this.
The external bracing wires as on the Fly Baby would not work on the BHP
design as the axle is held down against the bottom of the V struts by the
bungees. The suspension motion requires the V to move down below the axle as
the "Jounce" displaces the axle. The bungees return the axle to the rest
position "rebound".
The Fly Baby has rigid mounting of the axle no suspension.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear conversion
Ted,
You might want to invest in a set of Pete Bowers' Fly Baby plans. I believe
the arrangement you are talking about is very similar to the gear
construction on a Fly Baby. The Fly Baby (I believe) uses fittings that
have a heavy bolt essentially parallel to the flat plane of the landing gear
strut going through fittings attached to the fuselage. The bracing wires
and spreader bars supply the rigidity to the system, just as the F&G
Pietenpol plans do. This is not a bad setup, and is probably better than
the original F&G plans. I don't care for the design BHP showed in those
plans for the fuselage attach fittings, and modified mine substantially to
carry the loads better. I never heard of a Fly Baby having landing gear
problems - wings falling off due to unequal tension in the paired flying
wires, but not gear problems.
Incidentally, Pete Bowers died last week. He was a good designer and a real
expert on rare antique aircraft.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted
Brousseau
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear conversion
I am thinking of converting from a split axle to a straight axle landing
gear. I already have the landing gear fuselage fittings installed for the
split axle. Does anyone see any problem of using them and building fittings
at the top of the straight axle gear that would have 5/16" pins attaching
them to the fuselage fittings just like the split axle gear?
Thanks for your thoughts,
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Landing gear conversion |
As much as I love the Flybaby, the problem with the flybaby design is that
if you damage the gear (on takeoff, for instance, by hitting a gopher hole
in the runway), you have just compromised the ability of the wing to hold
you up as the landing gear is an integral member of the lift wire trussing
system.
Chris Bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
McNarry
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear conversion
I am sad to hear of another of the early greats in home building passing.
The gear as in the F&G is well braced as the front view shows.
The cross bracing of the gear legs, in tension with cables, is held in
compression by the horizontal spreader bars each side of the axle.
As you have indicated Jack, a very stout design!
The only catch I see is that the inclusion of brakes to the design requires
some method of preventing axle rotation.
Mike Cuy has a very neat solution to this.
The external bracing wires as on the Fly Baby would not work on the BHP
design as the axle is held down against the bottom of the V struts by the
bungees. The suspension motion requires the V to move down below the axle as
the "Jounce" displaces the axle. The bungees return the axle to the rest
position "rebound".
The Fly Baby has rigid mounting of the axle no suspension.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear conversion
Ted,
You might want to invest in a set of Pete Bowers' Fly Baby plans. I believe
the arrangement you are talking about is very similar to the gear
construction on a Fly Baby. The Fly Baby (I believe) uses fittings that
have a heavy bolt essentially parallel to the flat plane of the landing gear
strut going through fittings attached to the fuselage. The bracing wires
and spreader bars supply the rigidity to the system, just as the F&G
Pietenpol plans do. This is not a bad setup, and is probably better than
the original F&G plans. I don't care for the design BHP showed in those
plans for the fuselage attach fittings, and modified mine substantially to
carry the loads better. I never heard of a Fly Baby having landing gear
problems - wings falling off due to unequal tension in the paired flying
wires, but not gear problems.
Incidentally, Pete Bowers died last week. He was a good designer and a real
expert on rare antique aircraft.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted
Brousseau
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear conversion
I am thinking of converting from a split axle to a straight axle landing
gear. I already have the landing gear fuselage fittings installed for the
split axle. Does anyone see any problem of using them and building fittings
at the top of the straight axle gear that would have 5/16" pins attaching
them to the fuselage fittings just like the split axle gear?
Thanks for your thoughts,
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Landing gear conversion |
Hi Ted,
I used spruce, laminated from 1/4" thick pieces using resorcinol glue. I
routed a groove in each of the inner pieces that when assembled formed a
hollow opening that gave me a place to run my brakeline down each rear
strut.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted
Brousseau
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear conversion
Thanks Jack,
By the way I looked at a picture of your gear legs. Wow, are they nice.
What kind of wood did you use. Any other pictures showing the attach
fittings?
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Landing gear conversion |
You are correct John,
When talking about the bracing wires on the FlyBaby, I was referring to the
wires that brace the landing ear, similar to those on the Pietenpol (and the
Curtiss Jenny), not the flying wires that attach to the axle on the Fly
Baby. The Fly Baby has no suspension at all, other than the low pressure
8.00 x 4 tires.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
McNarry
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear conversion
I am sad to hear of another of the early greats in home building passing.
The gear as in the F&G is well braced as the front view shows.
The cross bracing of the gear legs, in tension with cables, is held in
compression by the horizontal spreader bars each side of the axle.
As you have indicated Jack, a very stout design!
The only catch I see is that the inclusion of brakes to the design requires
some method of preventing axle rotation.
Mike Cuy has a very neat solution to this.
The external bracing wires as on the Fly Baby would not work on the BHP
design as the axle is held down against the bottom of the V struts by the
bungees. The suspension motion requires the V to move down below the axle as
the "Jounce" displaces the axle. The bungees return the axle to the rest
position "rebound".
The Fly Baby has rigid mounting of the axle no suspension.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
Epoxy resin can be hazardous to your health and it is too bad that the
manufacturers don't put this in big bold letters on the label of their
product (without the government telling them.) The mild odor of epoxy
resin lulls people into thinking that it will do no harm. If epoxy had
the nasty smell of polyester resin people might be more careful with it.
Severe reactions are a real possibility. You should always use gloves
such as latex (those that do not have powered latex) or nitrile and it is
a good idea to apply barrier cream on your hands before putting the
gloves on. Work in a well ventilated area and wear a cartridge
respirator that filters out chemicals. The hardener contains the bad
stuff.
Some epoxy brands advertise that they do not contain the hazardous
substance Methyleneadianiline (MDA). These may be safer, I don't know,
but I would still take the above precautions if using them and check (and
test) to see if they are good for bonding wood. T-88 and West System are
formulated for excellent wetting and bonding of wood and good water
resistance when cured--I don't know if they contain MDA..
You may get a rash the first time you use epoxy. You may get a reaction
the hundredth time you use it. You may never get a reaction. You may
have health consequences from it ten or twenty years from now--and you
may not. Psoriasis and other debilitating diseases are a possibility.
Why take a chance? A box of gloves is about ten bucks and a respirator
is about $35 bucks. Some boat builders can no longer use their boats
because of sensitivity to epoxy. It would be a shame if you spent 2000
hours of your life and $10,000 of your hard earned money and then could
not even sit in your creation.
I would read carefully the warnings on carb or brake cleaner or other
solvents before using them. These chemicals might cause their own
problems. Vinegar and/or soapy water are the safe bet for cleaning your
hands, but prevention is the best way to go.
Ken gives some good advice on handling epoxy and please read Alex's post,
then contemplate how you are going to handle the stuff.
Dick H.
From: Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
There is an easier way to get your hands clean. I have made a point of
wearing a good fitting pair of surgical latex gloves, I get these from a
local boat builder. For my tools, I wipe the excess off with shop towels
and then wipe them down with a cloth and some paint & varnish remover.
I use small mixing cups for the glue so I just throw them away along with
the mixing sticks ( popsicle sticks) so my clean up is very light.
Just throwing in my 10 cents worth,(7.5 cents Canadian)
I have also just updated my web site for anyone that's interested, added
engine.
http://home.cogeco.ca/%7Epietbuilder/index.htm
Ken
GN1 2992
Canada
Ken,
Latex gloves sold in the paint dept of Wal-Mart is what I used when I
built my wood ultralight. I sprinkled talc on them when I was done before
I
took them off. I could re use them 3 or 4 times. I never had to clean T88
off my hands.
Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Rickards" <krickards(at)cvci.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
DJ,
I had a serious reaction to the T-88 glue last fall. Do you think using
invisible gloves would preclude this occurring again?
Alex Sloan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John_Duprey(at)vmed.org |
| Subject: | Re: EPOXY REACTION |
05/07/2003 09:20:07 AM
While we are on the subject of allergic reactions to chemicals, I would
reccomend using a latex free glove, the medical profession is switching
away from Latex gloves due to so many people developing severe alergies to
latex. Just my two cents... I know this as I work for a large health care
provider.
John Duprey
rhartwig11(at)juno.com@matronics.com on 05/07/2003 08:55:20 AM
Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: EPOXY REACTION
Epoxy resin can be hazardous to your health and it is too bad that the
manufacturers don't put this in big bold letters on the label of their
product (without the government telling them.) The mild odor of epoxy
resin lulls people into thinking that it will do no harm. If epoxy had
the nasty smell of polyester resin people might be more careful with it.
Severe reactions are a real possibility. You should always use gloves
such as latex (those that do not have powered latex) or nitrile and it is
a good idea to apply barrier cream on your hands before putting the
gloves on. Work in a well ventilated area and wear a cartridge
respirator that filters out chemicals. The hardener contains the bad
stuff.
Some epoxy brands advertise that they do not contain the hazardous
substance Methyleneadianiline (MDA). These may be safer, I don't know,
but I would still take the above precautions if using them and check (and
test) to see if they are good for bonding wood. T-88 and West System are
formulated for excellent wetting and bonding of wood and good water
resistance when cured--I don't know if they contain MDA..
You may get a rash the first time you use epoxy. You may get a reaction
the hundredth time you use it. You may never get a reaction. You may
have health consequences from it ten or twenty years from now--and you
may not. Psoriasis and other debilitating diseases are a possibility.
Why take a chance? A box of gloves is about ten bucks and a respirator
is about $35 bucks. Some boat builders can no longer use their boats
because of sensitivity to epoxy. It would be a shame if you spent 2000
hours of your life and $10,000 of your hard earned money and then could
not even sit in your creation.
I would read carefully the warnings on carb or brake cleaner or other
solvents before using them. These chemicals might cause their own
problems. Vinegar and/or soapy water are the safe bet for cleaning your
hands, but prevention is the best way to go.
Ken gives some good advice on handling epoxy and please read Alex's post,
then contemplate how you are going to handle the stuff.
Dick H.
From: Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
There is an easier way to get your hands clean. I have made a point of
wearing a good fitting pair of surgical latex gloves, I get these from a
local boat builder. For my tools, I wipe the excess off with shop towels
and then wipe them down with a cloth and some paint & varnish remover.
I use small mixing cups for the glue so I just throw them away along with
the mixing sticks ( popsicle sticks) so my clean up is very light.
Just throwing in my 10 cents worth,(7.5 cents Canadian)
I have also just updated my web site for anyone that's interested, added
engine.
http://home.cogeco.ca/%7Epietbuilder/index.htm
Ken
GN1 2992
Canada
Ken,
Latex gloves sold in the paint dept of Wal-Mart is what I used when I
built my wood ultralight. I sprinkled talc on them when I was done before
I
took them off. I could re use them 3 or 4 times. I never had to clean T88
off my hands.
Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Rickards" <krickards(at)cvci.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
DJ,
I had a serious reaction to the T-88 glue last fall. Do you think using
invisible gloves would preclude this occurring again?
Alex Sloan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EPOXY REACTION |
Dick H..
Thanks,
Alex S.
----- Original Message -----
From: <rhartwig11(at)juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: EPOXY REACTION
>
> Epoxy resin can be hazardous to your health and it is too bad that the
> manufacturers don't put this in big bold letters on the label of their
> product (without the government telling them.) The mild odor of epoxy
> resin lulls people into thinking that it will do no harm. If epoxy had
> the nasty smell of polyester resin people might be more careful with it.
> Severe reactions are a real possibility. You should always use gloves
> such as latex (those that do not have powered latex) or nitrile and it is
> a good idea to apply barrier cream on your hands before putting the
> gloves on. Work in a well ventilated area and wear a cartridge
> respirator that filters out chemicals. The hardener contains the bad
> stuff.
>
> Some epoxy brands advertise that they do not contain the hazardous
> substance Methyleneadianiline (MDA). These may be safer, I don't know,
> but I would still take the above precautions if using them and check (and
> test) to see if they are good for bonding wood. T-88 and West System are
> formulated for excellent wetting and bonding of wood and good water
> resistance when cured--I don't know if they contain MDA..
>
> You may get a rash the first time you use epoxy. You may get a reaction
> the hundredth time you use it. You may never get a reaction. You may
> have health consequences from it ten or twenty years from now--and you
> may not. Psoriasis and other debilitating diseases are a possibility.
> Why take a chance? A box of gloves is about ten bucks and a respirator
> is about $35 bucks. Some boat builders can no longer use their boats
> because of sensitivity to epoxy. It would be a shame if you spent 2000
> hours of your life and $10,000 of your hard earned money and then could
> not even sit in your creation.
>
> I would read carefully the warnings on carb or brake cleaner or other
> solvents before using them. These chemicals might cause their own
> problems. Vinegar and/or soapy water are the safe bet for cleaning your
> hands, but prevention is the best way to go.
>
> Ken gives some good advice on handling epoxy and please read Alex's post,
> then contemplate how you are going to handle the stuff.
>
> Dick H.
>
> From: Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
>
>
> There is an easier way to get your hands clean. I have made a point of
> wearing a good fitting pair of surgical latex gloves, I get these from a
> local boat builder. For my tools, I wipe the excess off with shop towels
> and then wipe them down with a cloth and some paint & varnish remover.
>
> I use small mixing cups for the glue so I just throw them away along with
> the mixing sticks ( popsicle sticks) so my clean up is very light.
>
> Just throwing in my 10 cents worth,(7.5 cents Canadian)
>
> I have also just updated my web site for anyone that's interested, added
> engine.
>
> http://home.cogeco.ca/%7Epietbuilder/index.htm
>
>
> Ken
>
>
> GN1 2992
> Canada
>
>
> Ken,
> Latex gloves sold in the paint dept of Wal-Mart is what I used when I
> built my wood ultralight. I sprinkled talc on them when I was done before
> I
> took them off. I could re use them 3 or 4 times. I never had to clean T88
> off my hands.
> Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Rickards" <krickards(at)cvci.com>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
>
> From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
>
>
>
> DJ,
> I had a serious reaction to the T-88 glue last fall. Do you think using
> invisible gloves would preclude this occurring again?
> Alex Sloan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mark moir" <iammarktheman(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EPOXY REACTION |
After many years working in aircraft depots for the Air Force I have come to
depend highly on the information in the MSDS (material safety data sheet).
Each one of the chemicals that we use is required by OSHA to have one of
these available to us if we ask for it. Sometimes it scares me half to death
to see some of the stuff that is in there. It gives the chemical makeup of
the product, "known" health hazards and protective measures to take when
using them. I am not sure where the average guy would find them but I am
certain that you have access to them!
>From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EPOXY REACTION
>Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 09:22:48 -0500
>
>
>Dick H..
>Thanks,
>Alex S.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <rhartwig11(at)juno.com>
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: EPOXY REACTION
>
>
> >
> > Epoxy resin can be hazardous to your health and it is too bad that the
> > manufacturers don't put this in big bold letters on the label of their
> > product (without the government telling them.) The mild odor of epoxy
> > resin lulls people into thinking that it will do no harm. If epoxy had
> > the nasty smell of polyester resin people might be more careful with it.
> > Severe reactions are a real possibility. You should always use gloves
> > such as latex (those that do not have powered latex) or nitrile and it
>is
> > a good idea to apply barrier cream on your hands before putting the
> > gloves on. Work in a well ventilated area and wear a cartridge
> > respirator that filters out chemicals. The hardener contains the bad
> > stuff.
> >
> > Some epoxy brands advertise that they do not contain the hazardous
> > substance Methyleneadianiline (MDA). These may be safer, I don't know,
> > but I would still take the above precautions if using them and check
>(and
> > test) to see if they are good for bonding wood. T-88 and West System are
> > formulated for excellent wetting and bonding of wood and good water
> > resistance when cured--I don't know if they contain MDA..
> >
> > You may get a rash the first time you use epoxy. You may get a reaction
> > the hundredth time you use it. You may never get a reaction. You may
> > have health consequences from it ten or twenty years from now--and you
> > may not. Psoriasis and other debilitating diseases are a possibility.
> > Why take a chance? A box of gloves is about ten bucks and a respirator
> > is about $35 bucks. Some boat builders can no longer use their boats
> > because of sensitivity to epoxy. It would be a shame if you spent 2000
> > hours of your life and $10,000 of your hard earned money and then could
> > not even sit in your creation.
> >
> > I would read carefully the warnings on carb or brake cleaner or other
> > solvents before using them. These chemicals might cause their own
> > problems. Vinegar and/or soapy water are the safe bet for cleaning your
> > hands, but prevention is the best way to go.
> >
> > Ken gives some good advice on handling epoxy and please read Alex's
>post,
> > then contemplate how you are going to handle the stuff.
> >
> > Dick H.
> >
> > From: Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com>
> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
> >
> >
> > There is an easier way to get your hands clean. I have made a point of
> > wearing a good fitting pair of surgical latex gloves, I get these from a
> > local boat builder. For my tools, I wipe the excess off with shop
>towels
> > and then wipe them down with a cloth and some paint & varnish remover.
> >
> > I use small mixing cups for the glue so I just throw them away along
>with
> > the mixing sticks ( popsicle sticks) so my clean up is very light.
> >
> > Just throwing in my 10 cents worth,(7.5 cents Canadian)
> >
> > I have also just updated my web site for anyone that's interested, added
> > engine.
> >
> > http://home.cogeco.ca/%7Epietbuilder/index.htm
> >
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > GN1 2992
> > Canada
> >
> >
> > Ken,
> > Latex gloves sold in the paint dept of Wal-Mart is what I used when
>I
> > built my wood ultralight. I sprinkled talc on them when I was done
>before
> > I
> > took them off. I could re use them 3 or 4 times. I never had to clean
>T88
> > off my hands.
> > Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ken Rickards" <krickards(at)cvci.com>
> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
> >
> > From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
> >
> >
> >
> > DJ,
> > I had a serious reaction to the T-88 glue last fall. Do you think using
> > invisible gloves would preclude this occurring again?
> > Alex Sloan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mark moir" <iammarktheman(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EPOXY REACTION |
After many years working in aircraft depots for the Air Force I have come to
depend highly on the information in the MSDS (material safety data sheet).
Each one of the chemicals that we use is required by OSHA to have one of
these available to us if we ask for it. Sometimes it scares me half to death
to see some of the stuff that is in there. It gives the chemical makeup of
the product, "known" health hazards and protective measures to take when
using them. I am not sure where the average guy would find them but I am
certain that you have access to them!
>From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EPOXY REACTION
>Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 09:22:48 -0500
>
>
>Dick H..
>Thanks,
>Alex S.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <rhartwig11(at)juno.com>
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: EPOXY REACTION
>
>
> >
> > Epoxy resin can be hazardous to your health and it is too bad that the
> > manufacturers don't put this in big bold letters on the label of their
> > product (without the government telling them.) The mild odor of epoxy
> > resin lulls people into thinking that it will do no harm. If epoxy had
> > the nasty smell of polyester resin people might be more careful with it.
> > Severe reactions are a real possibility. You should always use gloves
> > such as latex (those that do not have powered latex) or nitrile and it
>is
> > a good idea to apply barrier cream on your hands before putting the
> > gloves on. Work in a well ventilated area and wear a cartridge
> > respirator that filters out chemicals. The hardener contains the bad
> > stuff.
> >
> > Some epoxy brands advertise that they do not contain the hazardous
> > substance Methyleneadianiline (MDA). These may be safer, I don't know,
> > but I would still take the above precautions if using them and check
>(and
> > test) to see if they are good for bonding wood. T-88 and West System are
> > formulated for excellent wetting and bonding of wood and good water
> > resistance when cured--I don't know if they contain MDA..
> >
> > You may get a rash the first time you use epoxy. You may get a reaction
> > the hundredth time you use it. You may never get a reaction. You may
> > have health consequences from it ten or twenty years from now--and you
> > may not. Psoriasis and other debilitating diseases are a possibility.
> > Why take a chance? A box of gloves is about ten bucks and a respirator
> > is about $35 bucks. Some boat builders can no longer use their boats
> > because of sensitivity to epoxy. It would be a shame if you spent 2000
> > hours of your life and $10,000 of your hard earned money and then could
> > not even sit in your creation.
> >
> > I would read carefully the warnings on carb or brake cleaner or other
> > solvents before using them. These chemicals might cause their own
> > problems. Vinegar and/or soapy water are the safe bet for cleaning your
> > hands, but prevention is the best way to go.
> >
> > Ken gives some good advice on handling epoxy and please read Alex's
>post,
> > then contemplate how you are going to handle the stuff.
> >
> > Dick H.
> >
> > From: Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com>
> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
> >
> >
> > There is an easier way to get your hands clean. I have made a point of
> > wearing a good fitting pair of surgical latex gloves, I get these from a
> > local boat builder. For my tools, I wipe the excess off with shop
>towels
> > and then wipe them down with a cloth and some paint & varnish remover.
> >
> > I use small mixing cups for the glue so I just throw them away along
>with
> > the mixing sticks ( popsicle sticks) so my clean up is very light.
> >
> > Just throwing in my 10 cents worth,(7.5 cents Canadian)
> >
> > I have also just updated my web site for anyone that's interested, added
> > engine.
> >
> > http://home.cogeco.ca/%7Epietbuilder/index.htm
> >
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > GN1 2992
> > Canada
> >
> >
> > Ken,
> > Latex gloves sold in the paint dept of Wal-Mart is what I used when
>I
> > built my wood ultralight. I sprinkled talc on them when I was done
>before
> > I
> > took them off. I could re use them 3 or 4 times. I never had to clean
>T88
> > off my hands.
> > Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ken Rickards" <krickards(at)cvci.com>
> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
> >
> > From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
> >
> >
> >
> > DJ,
> > I had a serious reaction to the T-88 glue last fall. Do you think using
> > invisible gloves would preclude this occurring again?
> > Alex Sloan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: torque tube question |
I have seen a number of people talk about putting a shim under the forward
torque tube bearing to raise it up off the floor. I always assumed that
this was because the torque tube touched something, most likely where it
passes through the back of the front seat between the "V" formed by the
square spruce diagonal braces. Is this correct?
My torque tube sits flat on the floor at both the front and back ends
without a shim. It did touch slightly at the front seat back, but a light
touch with a small sanding drum gave it clearance. My problem is that with
the interconnect between the front and rear control sticks, the interconnect
hits the "V" brace on the side that it is on with what appears to be a very
small aileron deflection.
Have some of you had this problem? I am wondering whether the shim under
the front bearing may have been to raise the torque tube up so that the
interconnect hits the diagonal later, or maybe some of you have "jogged" the
interconnect so that it does not hit, or maybe whether the aileron travel I
have is sufficient and I am worrying about nothing.
Sound familiar to anyone??
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EPOXY REACTION |
>
>After many years working in aircraft depots for the Air Force I have come to
>depend highly on the information in the MSDS (material safety data sheet).
>Each one of the chemicals that we use is required by OSHA to have one of
>these available to us if we ask for it. Sometimes it scares me half to death
>to see some of the stuff that is in there. It gives the chemical makeup of
>the product, "known" health hazards and protective measures to take when
>using them. I am not sure where the average guy would find them but I am
>certain that you have access to them!
If the product is something that the manufacturer is required to have an
MSDS for, they are required by law to provide you a copy if you request it.
Some companies make them available on their web sites, if you know to look
for them. For complex compunds such as epoxies and brake cleaner, this is
probably the best way to go.
Also, several major universities maintain on-line repositories of MSDS's
for virtually every chemical ever made that requires one. I believe my
institution, Ohio State is one of them (www.ohio-state.edu). You can get to
the database by going there & then searching the campus web site - I think
it's part of the web pages for what I think is called the Environmental
Health & Safety Office. You can also do a Google search of 'Material Data
Safety Sheet' & get directly to several of the different university
database web pages.
Kip Gardner
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
| Subject: | Re: torque tube question |
Sounds very familiar. I don't know how it ever worked in the plans
configuration, but if you cross the interconnect from the left side of the
rear stick to the right side of the front stick, the problem goes away.
I had to shim the torque tube a bit to keep it from hitting the ash cross
piece.
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo [mailto:rambog(at)erols.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: torque tube question
I have seen a number of people talk about putting a shim under the forward
torque tube bearing to raise it up off the floor. I always assumed that
this was because the torque tube touched something, most likely where it
passes through the back of the front seat between the "V" formed by the
square spruce diagonal braces. Is this correct?
My torque tube sits flat on the floor at both the front and back ends
without a shim. It did touch slightly at the front seat back, but a light
touch with a small sanding drum gave it clearance. My problem is that with
the interconnect between the front and rear control sticks, the interconnect
hits the "V" brace on the side that it is on with what appears to be a very
small aileron deflection.
Have some of you had this problem? I am wondering whether the shim under
the front bearing may have been to raise the torque tube up so that the
interconnect hits the diagonal later, or maybe some of you have "jogged" the
interconnect so that it does not hit, or maybe whether the aileron travel I
have is sufficient and I am worrying about nothing.
Sound familiar to anyone??
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: torque tube question |
What I remember is that since the floor is "bowed", the attach point in the
rear and in the front is not on a flat plane. I had to put a "wedge" under
the front bearing to keep things in line, and to keep the tube from binding.
Later after final assy, the connecting tube from front stick to back, rubbed
under the arch in the bulkheads. Had to get Mr. Dremmel into the act on that
one.
walt
NX140DL
15 1/4 hrs down, out of 25
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: torque tube question
>
> I have seen a number of people talk about putting a shim under the forward
> torque tube bearing to raise it up off the floor. I always assumed that
> this was because the torque tube touched something, most likely where it
> passes through the back of the front seat between the "V" formed by the
> square spruce diagonal braces. Is this correct?
>
> My torque tube sits flat on the floor at both the front and back ends
> without a shim. It did touch slightly at the front seat back, but a light
> touch with a small sanding drum gave it clearance. My problem is that
with
> the interconnect between the front and rear control sticks, the
interconnect
> hits the "V" brace on the side that it is on with what appears to be a
very
> small aileron deflection.
>
> Have some of you had this problem? I am wondering whether the shim under
> the front bearing may have been to raise the torque tube up so that the
> interconnect hits the diagonal later, or maybe some of you have "jogged"
the
> interconnect so that it does not hit, or maybe whether the aileron travel
I
> have is sufficient and I am worrying about nothing.
>
> Sound familiar to anyone??
>
> Gene
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: torque tube question |
I can't believe it!! A really simple solution!!! By crossing the
interconnect from the left to right, it does not hit the forward elevator
cable?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: torque tube question
>
> Sounds very familiar. I don't know how it ever worked in the plans
> configuration, but if you cross the interconnect from the left side of the
> rear stick to the right side of the front stick, the problem goes away.
>
> I had to shim the torque tube a bit to keep it from hitting the ash cross
> piece.
>
> Gene Hubbard
> San Diego
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene Rambo [mailto:rambog(at)erols.com]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: torque tube question
>
>
> I have seen a number of people talk about putting a shim under the forward
> torque tube bearing to raise it up off the floor. I always assumed that
> this was because the torque tube touched something, most likely where it
> passes through the back of the front seat between the "V" formed by the
> square spruce diagonal braces. Is this correct?
>
> My torque tube sits flat on the floor at both the front and back ends
> without a shim. It did touch slightly at the front seat back, but a light
> touch with a small sanding drum gave it clearance. My problem is that
with
> the interconnect between the front and rear control sticks, the
interconnect
> hits the "V" brace on the side that it is on with what appears to be a
very
> small aileron deflection.
>
> Have some of you had this problem? I am wondering whether the shim under
> the front bearing may have been to raise the torque tube up so that the
> interconnect hits the diagonal later, or maybe some of you have "jogged"
the
> interconnect so that it does not hit, or maybe whether the aileron travel
I
> have is sufficient and I am worrying about nothing.
>
> Sound familiar to anyone??
>
> Gene
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Does anyone have an opinion on the max amount of flex that the axel should have?
I know there has to be some ability to absorb shock, but too much travel will cause
ground loop.
I am thinking 1" should be plenty. ???
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: torque tube question |
In a message dated 5/7/2003 6:24:22 PM Central Standard Time,
rambog(at)erols.com writes:
> My problem is that with
> the interconnect between the front and rear control sticks, the
> interconnect
> hits the "V" brace on the side that it is on with what appears to be a very
> small aileron deflection.
>
> Have some of you had this problem
Sure....just reinforce the diagonal and rasp it out to clear the tube.
Works great! Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doyle K. Combs" <dcombs(at)ltex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: straight gear |
Benard said 3/4" open when on the ground, I believe.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: straight gear
>
> Does anyone have an opinion on the max amount of flex that the axel should
have?
> I know there has to be some ability to absorb shock, but too much travel
will cause ground loop.
> I am thinking 1" should be plenty. ???
> Dick
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | straight axle up travel |
Dick-- Bernard did write something about with a 'full load' which I would
take to mean two people and fuel that the
axle should be about 1/2"-3/4" above the ash block at the bottom of your
wood gear legs.
The anti-torque tubes I have for my brakes (and to keep the axle from
shifting left-to-right or right-to-left under the bungees show
approximately 3" of travel where the paint is worn off as they ride in the
guide tube. I know one thing is for sure----do not wrap your bungee
cords too loosely. You will have no authority with your ailerons in a
cross wind landing or takeoff unless your bungee cords are the right
tension. Learned this the scary way. When you dig your aileron in left
or right during a crosswind takeoff and the cords are too loose the wind
will get under your wing and easily push that wing up while your straight
axle suspension provides little resistance to the roll tendency.
I use six feet of 1/2" diameter Boaters World or West Marine (or wherever
you can find the stuff) white cloth covered bungee cord and wrap it
tight. It will loosen over time too. The 5/8" diam stuff is way too
stiff for the average whimp like me to wrap. (plus it is overkill unless
you have a 900 pound piet)
After installing your bungee cords, put both hands on your wing strut ends
at the wing and rock the plane up and down to see how tight or loose they
are. The bungees will make noises as you do this but you should not be
able to cause more than a little lifting of the axle off of your ash block
by doing this. If you have a gap with nobody in the plane they are way too
loose. You should be able to lift the wheel off the ground by lifting
like this.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seibert Bob-r18643 <Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com> |
Regarding Latex vs. Vinyl gloves - Stick with latex if you can.
Polybrush fabric cement dissolves vinyl gloves in about 15 seconds.
I don't know how they hold up against epoxy but I have a box full of vinyl gloves
to use for oil changes now!
Bob Seibert
Slathering Latex House Paint on the Piet in smoky humid TX.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Nice Ford Piet for sale on Barnstormers.com |
Just saw this ad on http://www.Barnstormers.com
PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER =95 FOR SALE!! .. RIGHT REAR .. RIGHT FRONT .. ENGINE ..
INSTRUMENT PANEL .. LEFT SIDE .. RIGHT REAR .. Model A Powered Pietenpol.
Excellent condition. Built By Howard Henderson featured in Feb 1989 issue
of Sport Aviation. Aircraft built to 1929 plans. Flies great. Includes Two
props Asking 14,500 obo. Located in VA. Contact Joseph Santana located
Waynesboro VA USA. Telephone: (540)943-3061. -- Posted 4 May 2003 -- Show
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
| Subject: | Re: torque tube question |
Mine doesn't. Then again, my torque tube came from Replicraft, and I never
figured out which plans he used.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo [mailto:rambog(at)erols.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: torque tube question
I can't believe it!! A really simple solution!!! By crossing the
interconnect from the left to right, it does not hit the forward elevator
cable?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: torque tube question
>
> Sounds very familiar. I don't know how it ever worked in the plans
> configuration, but if you cross the interconnect from the left side of the
> rear stick to the right side of the front stick, the problem goes away.
>
> I had to shim the torque tube a bit to keep it from hitting the ash cross
> piece.
>
> Gene Hubbard
> San Diego
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene Rambo [mailto:rambog(at)erols.com]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: torque tube question
>
>
> I have seen a number of people talk about putting a shim under the forward
> torque tube bearing to raise it up off the floor. I always assumed that
> this was because the torque tube touched something, most likely where it
> passes through the back of the front seat between the "V" formed by the
> square spruce diagonal braces. Is this correct?
>
> My torque tube sits flat on the floor at both the front and back ends
> without a shim. It did touch slightly at the front seat back, but a light
> touch with a small sanding drum gave it clearance. My problem is that
with
> the interconnect between the front and rear control sticks, the
interconnect
> hits the "V" brace on the side that it is on with what appears to be a
very
> small aileron deflection.
>
> Have some of you had this problem? I am wondering whether the shim under
> the front bearing may have been to raise the torque tube up so that the
> interconnect hits the diagonal later, or maybe some of you have "jogged"
the
> interconnect so that it does not hit, or maybe whether the aileron travel
I
> have is sufficient and I am worrying about nothing.
>
> Sound familiar to anyone??
>
> Gene
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Vinegar gets my vote. I've used it many times and it works great
without the danger or cost of brake cleaner.
Steve E (yes I still lurk once in a while....)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
McNeel
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
So does vinegar.
-Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
TomTravis(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
I found that "Fast Orange", the hand cleaner in the orange-colored jug
works
great at removing T-88.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Ontario Piet fly-in? |
Does anyone on the list know if the Piet Fly-in is still held in Brussels,
Ontario? Or anywhere else in Ontario, for that matter? I was going throught
the archives and found mention of this annual event, but the most recent
posting was from the year 2000.
I'm new to the list, having been an observer for the last half-year or so,
but have been a fan of the Piet since my Dad built a radio controlled model
about twenty-five or thirty years ago. I would really like to get a chance
to see the real thing up close. I guess my other option would be Brodhead
this summer. Hmmm...
Thanks,
Bill Church
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | straight axle up travel |
Thanks Mike, a good way to test how tight I have been wondering about that.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael D
Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: straight axle up travel
Dick-- Bernard did write something about with a 'full load' which I would
take to mean two people and fuel that the
axle should be about 1/2"-3/4" above the ash block at the bottom of your
wood gear legs.
The anti-torque tubes I have for my brakes (and to keep the axle from
shifting left-to-right or right-to-left under the bungees show
approximately 3" of travel where the paint is worn off as they ride in the
guide tube. I know one thing is for sure----do not wrap your bungee
cords too loosely. You will have no authority with your ailerons in a
cross wind landing or takeoff unless your bungee cords are the right
tension. Learned this the scary way. When you dig your aileron in left
or right during a crosswind takeoff and the cords are too loose the wind
will get under your wing and easily push that wing up while your straight
axle suspension provides little resistance to the roll tendency.
I use six feet of 1/2" diameter Boaters World or West Marine (or wherever
you can find the stuff) white cloth covered bungee cord and wrap it
tight. It will loosen over time too. The 5/8" diam stuff is way too
stiff for the average whimp like me to wrap. (plus it is overkill unless
you have a 900 pound piet)
After installing your bungee cords, put both hands on your wing strut ends
at the wing and rock the plane up and down to see how tight or loose they
are. The bungees will make noises as you do this but you should not be
able to cause more than a little lifting of the axle off of your ash block
by doing this. If you have a gap with nobody in the plane they are way too
loose. You should be able to lift the wheel off the ground by lifting
like this.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
Hi Steve E
Warm enough to fly in Utah yet?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Eldredge
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
Steve E (yes I still lurk once in a while....)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: straight axle up travel |
Hey Mike
Thanks alot. I'm really glad I asked this question. I'm almost ready for
my taxi tests and I'll go back and re-check tension. However I am still
thinking of limiting the amount of travel for the reasons you site.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: straight axle up travel
>
> Dick-- Bernard did write something about with a 'full load' which I would
> take to mean two people and fuel that the
> axle should be about 1/2"-3/4" above the ash block at the bottom of your
> wood gear legs.
>
> The anti-torque tubes I have for my brakes (and to keep the axle from
> shifting left-to-right or right-to-left under the bungees show
> approximately 3" of travel where the paint is worn off as they ride in the
> guide tube. I know one thing is for sure----do not wrap your bungee
> cords too loosely. You will have no authority with your ailerons in a
> cross wind landing or takeoff unless your bungee cords are the right
> tension. Learned this the scary way. When you dig your aileron in left
> or right during a crosswind takeoff and the cords are too loose the wind
> will get under your wing and easily push that wing up while your straight
> axle suspension provides little resistance to the roll tendency.
>
> I use six feet of 1/2" diameter Boaters World or West Marine (or wherever
> you can find the stuff) white cloth covered bungee cord and wrap it
> tight. It will loosen over time too. The 5/8" diam stuff is way too
> stiff for the average whimp like me to wrap. (plus it is overkill unless
> you have a 900 pound piet)
>
> After installing your bungee cords, put both hands on your wing strut
ends
> at the wing and rock the plane up and down to see how tight or loose they
> are. The bungees will make noises as you do this but you should not be
> able to cause more than a little lifting of the axle off of your ash block
> by doing this. If you have a gap with nobody in the plane they are way
too
> loose. You should be able to lift the wheel off the ground by lifting
> like this.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | tires, taxiing, & stuff |
Dick N--------Congratulations on your progress. About to do taxi
testing. Exciting time for you.
Initially I fiddled with my motorcycle tire pressure as well as bungee
tightness. On grass strips it helps
your takeoff roll if your tire pressure is on the higher side, (less
rolling resistance) On paved strips I prefer
a somewhat softer pressure to cushion the 'chirp' or in the Piets case more
of an "urt". I think for overall
use I keep mine about 23 psi or so. I eyeball the tread where it meets
the pavement/concrete head-on to see
if all the ribs/tread in the tire are touching the ground or if the
sidewalls have too much bulge at the bottom.
It's amazing what ambient temperature changes can do to your inflation
pressure. Up and down sometimes.
(least in Ohio)
One more thought on the bungee wrapping tightness. On my first couple of
attempts to wrap the bungees I failed
to get equal tightness on either side. I would find that one side was too
tight and the other side too loose, or vice-versa.
It took some practice to get the right feel for how to wrap them. Don't
be discouraged if you have to re-wrap several times
to get it just right like Goldie Lock's bed.
The weirdest thing about taxiing for the first time is that everything
around you starts to move. Very unlike all the 'simulator' training time
that you've accumulated while in your garage, basement, driveway, and
hangar. (way more fun)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rambog(at)erols.com" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | tires, taxiing, & stuff |
Not that I am there yet, but how did you do the bungee ends?
Gene
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Michael D Cuy Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 10:42:08 -0400
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
Dick N--------Congratulations on your progress. About to do taxi
testing. Exciting time for you.
Initially I fiddled with my motorcycle tire pressure as well as bungee
tightness. On grass strips it helps
your takeoff roll if your tire pressure is on the higher side, (less
rolling resistance) On paved strips I prefer
a somewhat softer pressure to cushion the 'chirp' or in the Piets case more
of an "urt". I think for overall
use I keep mine about 23 psi or so. I eyeball the tread where it meets
the pavement/concrete head-on to see
if all the ribs/tread in the tire are touching the ground or if the
sidewalls have too much bulge at the bottom.
It's amazing what ambient temperature changes can do to your inflation
pressure. Up and down sometimes.
(least in Ohio)
One more thought on the bungee wrapping tightness. On my first couple of
attempts to wrap the bungees I failed
to get equal tightness on either side. I would find that one side was too
tight and the other side too loose, or vice-versa.
It took some practice to get the right feel for how to wrap them. Don't
be discouraged if you have to re-wrap several times
to get it just right like Goldie Lock's bed.
The weirdest thing about taxiing for the first time is that everything
around you starts to move. Very unlike all the 'simulator' training time
that you've accumulated while in your garage, basement, driveway, and
hangar. (way more fun)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tires, taxiing, & stuff |
Gene,
Another reason to get a hold of Tony B's books. He gives a description for
a pro result, using the common man's tools/understanding.
If nothing else I could scan the page/pages and email to you or anyone
interested.
I had to use a smaller size then in the plans. Didn't have the arm power or
knowledge to use the big stuff. It was like trying to stretch a tree
branch.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
>
> Not that I am there yet, but how did you do the bungee ends?
>
> Gene
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Michael D Cuy Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov
> Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 10:42:08 -0400
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
>
>
>
>
> Dick N--------Congratulations on your progress. About to do taxi
> testing. Exciting time for you.
> Initially I fiddled with my motorcycle tire pressure as well as bungee
> tightness. On grass strips it helps
> your takeoff roll if your tire pressure is on the higher side, (less
> rolling resistance) On paved strips I prefer
> a somewhat softer pressure to cushion the 'chirp' or in the Piets case
more
> of an "urt". I think for overall
> use I keep mine about 23 psi or so. I eyeball the tread where it meets
> the pavement/concrete head-on to see
> if all the ribs/tread in the tire are touching the ground or if the
> sidewalls have too much bulge at the bottom.
> It's amazing what ambient temperature changes can do to your inflation
> pressure. Up and down sometimes.
> (least in Ohio)
>
> One more thought on the bungee wrapping tightness. On my first couple of
> attempts to wrap the bungees I failed
> to get equal tightness on either side. I would find that one side was
too
> tight and the other side too loose, or vice-versa.
> It took some practice to get the right feel for how to wrap them. Don't
> be discouraged if you have to re-wrap several times
> to get it just right like Goldie Lock's bed.
>
> The weirdest thing about taxiing for the first time is that everything
> around you starts to move. Very unlike all the 'simulator' training time
> that you've accumulated while in your garage, basement, driveway, and
> hangar. (way more fun)
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
>Not that I am there yet, but how did you do the bungee ends?
>Gene
Gene-- I got some good nylon tye-wraps and a tye-wrap tightening
gun (cheap things too--if you get the
plastic ones and they work great) I loop one end of the bungee around the
axle and ash bottom piece and tye wrap
about 5 or 6 tyes to make the "splice" and then FILE the sharp ends down so
they don't chaffe the subsequent wraps
around them. Then I wrap the cord in a figure 8 until I'm at the end and
repeat the 5 or 6 tye wrap method to one of the nearest
last loops. You have to work the wraps under your last loop of bungee a
bit, but once you get one tye wrap tight, the remaining 4 or 5 can be done
with both hands easier.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tires, taxiing, & stuff |
I have wrapped bungees on a number of different airplanes, including my
Travel Air, but I was wondering how, specifically, other people are
accomplishing it on the Piet.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
>
> Gene,
> Another reason to get a hold of Tony B's books. He gives a description
for
> a pro result, using the common man's tools/understanding.
> If nothing else I could scan the page/pages and email to you or anyone
> interested.
> I had to use a smaller size then in the plans. Didn't have the arm power
or
> knowledge to use the big stuff. It was like trying to stretch a tree
> branch.
> walt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <rambog(at)erols.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
>
>
>
> >
> > Not that I am there yet, but how did you do the bungee ends?
> >
> > Gene
> >
> > Original Message:
> > -----------------
> > From: Michael D Cuy Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov
> > Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 10:42:08 -0400
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dick N--------Congratulations on your progress. About to do taxi
> > testing. Exciting time for you.
> > Initially I fiddled with my motorcycle tire pressure as well as bungee
> > tightness. On grass strips it helps
> > your takeoff roll if your tire pressure is on the higher side, (less
> > rolling resistance) On paved strips I prefer
> > a somewhat softer pressure to cushion the 'chirp' or in the Piets case
> more
> > of an "urt". I think for overall
> > use I keep mine about 23 psi or so. I eyeball the tread where it meets
> > the pavement/concrete head-on to see
> > if all the ribs/tread in the tire are touching the ground or if the
> > sidewalls have too much bulge at the bottom.
> > It's amazing what ambient temperature changes can do to your inflation
> > pressure. Up and down sometimes.
> > (least in Ohio)
> >
> > One more thought on the bungee wrapping tightness. On my first couple
of
> > attempts to wrap the bungees I failed
> > to get equal tightness on either side. I would find that one side was
> too
> > tight and the other side too loose, or vice-versa.
> > It took some practice to get the right feel for how to wrap them.
Don't
> > be discouraged if you have to re-wrap several times
> > to get it just right like Goldie Lock's bed.
> >
> > The weirdest thing about taxiing for the first time is that everything
> > around you starts to move. Very unlike all the 'simulator' training
time
> > that you've accumulated while in your garage, basement, driveway, and
> > hangar. (way more fun)
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
One idea I had was to pre-make a small loop, just the size of the axle, on
both ends of the bungee and slip one onto the axle past (inboard) of the ash
block, then make the wraps and slide the other end over the end of the axle
before putting the wheel on. I don't know if this will work, obviously I
have not tried it.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: bungee ends
>
>
> >Not that I am there yet, but how did you do the bungee ends?
> >Gene
>
> Gene-- I got some good nylon tye-wraps and a tye-wrap tightening
> gun (cheap things too--if you get the
> plastic ones and they work great) I loop one end of the bungee around
the
> axle and ash bottom piece and tye wrap
> about 5 or 6 tyes to make the "splice" and then FILE the sharp ends down
so
> they don't chaffe the subsequent wraps
> around them. Then I wrap the cord in a figure 8 until I'm at the end and
> repeat the 5 or 6 tye wrap method to one of the nearest
> last loops. You have to work the wraps under your last loop of bungee a
> bit, but once you get one tye wrap tight, the remaining 4 or 5 can be done
> with both hands easier.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tires, taxiing, & stuff |
I wrapped mine the way Mike C. describes. I got it from him on a question
about 15 months ago. There is still one thing kind of bugging me about it
though - A NW airlines I&A looked at it and was concerned about the Tie
wrapps annd was very concerned about depending on them. I have decided on
adding a safety "clamp" after I determine that the tensions are right. I
will use rib lacing cord and stich the 2 ends of the shock cord together as
a safety.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
>
> I have wrapped bungees on a number of different airplanes, including my
> Travel Air, but I was wondering how, specifically, other people are
> accomplishing it on the Piet.
>
> Gene
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
>
>
>
> >
> > Gene,
> > Another reason to get a hold of Tony B's books. He gives a description
> for
> > a pro result, using the common man's tools/understanding.
> > If nothing else I could scan the page/pages and email to you or anyone
> > interested.
> > I had to use a smaller size then in the plans. Didn't have the arm
power
> or
> > knowledge to use the big stuff. It was like trying to stretch a tree
> > branch.
> > walt
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <rambog(at)erols.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Not that I am there yet, but how did you do the bungee ends?
> > >
> > > Gene
> > >
> > > Original Message:
> > > -----------------
> > > From: Michael D Cuy Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov
> > > Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 10:42:08 -0400
> > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dick N--------Congratulations on your progress. About to do taxi
> > > testing. Exciting time for you.
> > > Initially I fiddled with my motorcycle tire pressure as well as bungee
> > > tightness. On grass strips it helps
> > > your takeoff roll if your tire pressure is on the higher side, (less
> > > rolling resistance) On paved strips I prefer
> > > a somewhat softer pressure to cushion the 'chirp' or in the Piets case
> > more
> > > of an "urt". I think for overall
> > > use I keep mine about 23 psi or so. I eyeball the tread where it
meets
> > > the pavement/concrete head-on to see
> > > if all the ribs/tread in the tire are touching the ground or if the
> > > sidewalls have too much bulge at the bottom.
> > > It's amazing what ambient temperature changes can do to your inflation
> > > pressure. Up and down sometimes.
> > > (least in Ohio)
> > >
> > > One more thought on the bungee wrapping tightness. On my first
couple
> of
> > > attempts to wrap the bungees I failed
> > > to get equal tightness on either side. I would find that one side
was
> > too
> > > tight and the other side too loose, or vice-versa.
> > > It took some practice to get the right feel for how to wrap them.
> Don't
> > > be discouraged if you have to re-wrap several times
> > > to get it just right like Goldie Lock's bed.
> > >
> > > The weirdest thing about taxiing for the first time is that everything
> > > around you starts to move. Very unlike all the 'simulator' training
> time
> > > that you've accumulated while in your garage, basement, driveway, and
> > > hangar. (way more fun)
> > >
> > > Mike C.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tires, taxiing, & stuff |
----- Original Message -----
From: <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
++++++++++++++++
Gene,
After wrapping the axle to the lower part of the "V" frame of the landing
gear, I just connected the two ends of the bungee by using a square knot.
Then on the tag ends of each end of the bungee, I "whipped" them with some
light cord and then varnished the ends and the "whipping"
In case you don't know, "whipping is just wrapping the cord around the end
of the bungee to keep the cover from unraveling, kinda like putting a
fairlead on a fly rod.
The whole assembly looks very authetic, just as it was done in 1929 and has
stood up well under a number of "less than perfect" landings and a couple of
trips through the cowpies and gopher holes.
Simple and authentic, I guess the old timers knew what they were doing!
John, NX114D
Salida, Colorado
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Not that I am there yet, but how did you do the bungee ends?
>
> Gene
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Michael D Cuy Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov
> Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 10:42:08 -0400
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
>
>
>
>
> Dick N--------Congratulations on your progress. About to do taxi
> testing. Exciting time for you.
> Initially I fiddled with my motorcycle tire pressure as well as bungee
> tightness. On grass strips it helps
> your takeoff roll if your tire pressure is on the higher side, (less
> rolling resistance) On paved strips I prefer
> a somewhat softer pressure to cushion the 'chirp' or in the Piets case
more
> of an "urt". I think for overall
> use I keep mine about 23 psi or so. I eyeball the tread where it meets
> the pavement/concrete head-on to see
> if all the ribs/tread in the tire are touching the ground or if the
> sidewalls have too much bulge at the bottom.
> It's amazing what ambient temperature changes can do to your inflation
> pressure. Up and down sometimes.
> (least in Ohio)
>
> One more thought on the bungee wrapping tightness. On my first couple of
> attempts to wrap the bungees I failed
> to get equal tightness on either side. I would find that one side was
too
> tight and the other side too loose, or vice-versa.
> It took some practice to get the right feel for how to wrap them. Don't
> be discouraged if you have to re-wrap several times
> to get it just right like Goldie Lock's bed.
>
> The weirdest thing about taxiing for the first time is that everything
> around you starts to move. Very unlike all the 'simulator' training time
> that you've accumulated while in your garage, basement, driveway, and
> hangar. (way more fun)
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: tires, taxiing, & stuff |
Pieters
With the bungee properly installed, it would be interesting to know how much
vertical movement there is from the axle at rest on the ash to the maximum
designed limit of a dropped in landing?
CMC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tires, taxiing, & stuff |
Mike,
Great info about the bungee. Where do I go to read about the correct way to
tie it or how ever it is held after all the work to get the tension correct?
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
>
> Dick N--------Congratulations on your progress. About to do taxi
> testing. Exciting time for you.
> Initially I fiddled with my motorcycle tire pressure as well as bungee
> tightness. On grass strips it helps
> your takeoff roll if your tire pressure is on the higher side, (less
> rolling resistance) On paved strips I prefer
> a somewhat softer pressure to cushion the 'chirp' or in the Piets case
more
> of an "urt". I think for overall
> use I keep mine about 23 psi or so. I eyeball the tread where it meets
> the pavement/concrete head-on to see
> if all the ribs/tread in the tire are touching the ground or if the
> sidewalls have too much bulge at the bottom.
> It's amazing what ambient temperature changes can do to your inflation
> pressure. Up and down sometimes.
> (least in Ohio)
>
> One more thought on the bungee wrapping tightness. On my first couple of
> attempts to wrap the bungees I failed
> to get equal tightness on either side. I would find that one side was
too
> tight and the other side too loose, or vice-versa.
> It took some practice to get the right feel for how to wrap them. Don't
> be discouraged if you have to re-wrap several times
> to get it just right like Goldie Lock's bed.
>
> The weirdest thing about taxiing for the first time is that everything
> around you starts to move. Very unlike all the 'simulator' training time
> that you've accumulated while in your garage, basement, driveway, and
> hangar. (way more fun)
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | tires, taxiing, & stuff |
Dick,
Another NWA IA says that the nylon that the tiewraps are made of will
deteriorate in UV.
chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
Navratril
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
I wrapped mine the way Mike C. describes. I got it from him on a question
about 15 months ago. There is still one thing kind of bugging me about it
though - A NW airlines I&A looked at it and was concerned about the Tie
wrapps annd was very concerned about depending on them. I have decided on
adding a safety "clamp" after I determine that the tensions are right. I
will use rib lacing cord and stich the 2 ends of the shock cord together as
a safety.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
>
> I have wrapped bungees on a number of different airplanes, including my
> Travel Air, but I was wondering how, specifically, other people are
> accomplishing it on the Piet.
>
> Gene
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
>
>
>
> >
> > Gene,
> > Another reason to get a hold of Tony B's books. He gives a description
> for
> > a pro result, using the common man's tools/understanding.
> > If nothing else I could scan the page/pages and email to you or anyone
> > interested.
> > I had to use a smaller size then in the plans. Didn't have the arm
power
> or
> > knowledge to use the big stuff. It was like trying to stretch a tree
> > branch.
> > walt
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <rambog(at)erols.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Not that I am there yet, but how did you do the bungee ends?
> > >
> > > Gene
> > >
> > > Original Message:
> > > -----------------
> > > From: Michael D Cuy Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov
> > > Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 10:42:08 -0400
> > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dick N--------Congratulations on your progress. About to do taxi
> > > testing. Exciting time for you.
> > > Initially I fiddled with my motorcycle tire pressure as well as bungee
> > > tightness. On grass strips it helps
> > > your takeoff roll if your tire pressure is on the higher side, (less
> > > rolling resistance) On paved strips I prefer
> > > a somewhat softer pressure to cushion the 'chirp' or in the Piets case
> > more
> > > of an "urt". I think for overall
> > > use I keep mine about 23 psi or so. I eyeball the tread where it
meets
> > > the pavement/concrete head-on to see
> > > if all the ribs/tread in the tire are touching the ground or if the
> > > sidewalls have too much bulge at the bottom.
> > > It's amazing what ambient temperature changes can do to your inflation
> > > pressure. Up and down sometimes.
> > > (least in Ohio)
> > >
> > > One more thought on the bungee wrapping tightness. On my first
couple
> of
> > > attempts to wrap the bungees I failed
> > > to get equal tightness on either side. I would find that one side
was
> > too
> > > tight and the other side too loose, or vice-versa.
> > > It took some practice to get the right feel for how to wrap them.
> Don't
> > > be discouraged if you have to re-wrap several times
> > > to get it just right like Goldie Lock's bed.
> > >
> > > The weirdest thing about taxiing for the first time is that everything
> > > around you starts to move. Very unlike all the 'simulator' training
> time
> > > that you've accumulated while in your garage, basement, driveway, and
> > > hangar. (way more fun)
> > >
> > > Mike C.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"Fishnet"
| Subject: | my hat is off to the long distance open cockpit flyers |
Trying to fly off my hours and spent 2 hours flying. Even though it was a beautiful
morning, 2 hours in the 80 mph wind wears the heck out of you. (maybe my
old age showing)
When I was flying the Fisher 404, never really made very long trips. Now with
the Pietenpol, just could pass up the great AM to build some time.
Got to hand it to the guys who fly open cockpit cross the US.
walt
NX140DL
17 1/4 down, 7 3/4 to go
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: tires, taxiing, & stuff |
In a message dated 5/9/2003 4:50:32 PM Central Standard Time,
rambog(at)erols.com writes:
> I have wrapped bungees on a number of different airplanes, including my
> Travel Air, but I was wondering how, specifically, other people are
> accomplishing it on the Piet.
>
Gene...I read most of the various responses to your query before posting this
so as not to duplicate. I wrapped the LG struts on my Buhl Bull Pups and
whipped the raw ends as described by John Dilatush as I suspect you did on
the Travel Air. However, for the Piet I liked Mike Cuy's tyewrap method. I am
doing the job now combining tyewraps and whipped ends. I prefer a 1/8" swaged
safety cable rather than a clamp so will have the safety cable as a backup. I
agree with the IA's opinion that the plastic tyewraps will deteriorate so
plan to do daily inspection plus periodic re-wrapping and tyewrap
replacement. I am unable to use the loop suggestion you put forth on mine as
I am installing hydraulic brakes similar to Mike's and cannot get the loop
over the brake disc. I am very grateful for the string on this subject as I
am right at that point now. Thanks to all who have contributed. Would be
interested in knowing about the final method you chose for your Piet. Don
Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tires, taxiing, & stuff |
Chris and Mike
Sounds like re-wrapping bungees and changing ty-wrapps should be a
reoccuring AD on the straight gear Piet.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
>
> Dick,
>
> Another NWA IA says that the nylon that the tiewraps are made of will
> deteriorate in UV.
>
> chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
> Navratril
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
>
>
>
>
> I wrapped mine the way Mike C. describes. I got it from him on a question
> about 15 months ago. There is still one thing kind of bugging me about it
> though - A NW airlines I&A looked at it and was concerned about the Tie
> wrapps annd was very concerned about depending on them. I have decided on
> adding a safety "clamp" after I determine that the tensions are right. I
> will use rib lacing cord and stich the 2 ends of the shock cord together
as
> a safety.
> Dick N.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
>
>
> >
> > I have wrapped bungees on a number of different airplanes, including my
> > Travel Air, but I was wondering how, specifically, other people are
> > accomplishing it on the Piet.
> >
> > Gene
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Gene,
> > > Another reason to get a hold of Tony B's books. He gives a
description
> > for
> > > a pro result, using the common man's tools/understanding.
> > > If nothing else I could scan the page/pages and email to you or anyone
> > > interested.
> > > I had to use a smaller size then in the plans. Didn't have the arm
> power
> > or
> > > knowledge to use the big stuff. It was like trying to stretch a tree
> > > branch.
> > > walt
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <rambog(at)erols.com>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Not that I am there yet, but how did you do the bungee ends?
> > > >
> > > > Gene
> > > >
> > > > Original Message:
> > > > -----------------
> > > > From: Michael D Cuy Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov
> > > > Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 10:42:08 -0400
> > > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dick N--------Congratulations on your progress. About to do taxi
> > > > testing. Exciting time for you.
> > > > Initially I fiddled with my motorcycle tire pressure as well as
bungee
> > > > tightness. On grass strips it helps
> > > > your takeoff roll if your tire pressure is on the higher side,
(less
> > > > rolling resistance) On paved strips I prefer
> > > > a somewhat softer pressure to cushion the 'chirp' or in the Piets
case
> > > more
> > > > of an "urt". I think for overall
> > > > use I keep mine about 23 psi or so. I eyeball the tread where it
> meets
> > > > the pavement/concrete head-on to see
> > > > if all the ribs/tread in the tire are touching the ground or if the
> > > > sidewalls have too much bulge at the bottom.
> > > > It's amazing what ambient temperature changes can do to your
inflation
> > > > pressure. Up and down sometimes.
> > > > (least in Ohio)
> > > >
> > > > One more thought on the bungee wrapping tightness. On my first
> couple
> > of
> > > > attempts to wrap the bungees I failed
> > > > to get equal tightness on either side. I would find that one side
> was
> > > too
> > > > tight and the other side too loose, or vice-versa.
> > > > It took some practice to get the right feel for how to wrap them.
> > Don't
> > > > be discouraged if you have to re-wrap several times
> > > > to get it just right like Goldie Lock's bed.
> > > >
> > > > The weirdest thing about taxiing for the first time is that
everything
> > > > around you starts to move. Very unlike all the 'simulator'
training
> > time
> > > > that you've accumulated while in your garage, basement, driveway,
and
> > > > hangar. (way more fun)
> > > >
> > > > Mike C.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brants" <tmbrant(at)usfamily.net> |
| Subject: | Brodhead pancake breakfast |
Anyone going to the Pancake breakfast at Brodhead next Sunday? Wondering if there
will be any Pieters there. I'm planning on flying down from Crystal.
Tom Brant, MPLS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | tires, taxiing, & stuff |
Just a short comment on tie wraps or as we call them zip ties. The black
ones are way more UV resistant. White ones used here on farm equipment don't
last a year the black ones seem to be good many years later.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
Navratril
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff
I wrapped mine the way Mike C. describes. I got it from him on a question
about 15 months ago. There is still one thing kind of bugging me about it
though - A NW airlines I&A looked at it and was concerned about the Tie
wrapps annd was very concerned about depending on them. I have decided on
adding a safety "clamp" after I determine that the tensions are right. I
will use rib lacing cord and stich the 2 ends of the shock cord together as
a safety.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks |
I have a question for all you Pieters who have made your tanks out of
aluminum. I've formed all the parts for the tank and clecoed everything
together. I want to prime the inside particularly to fend off corrosion. The
material is 5052 aluminum sheet, and the traditional method is to clean it up
with a scotch brite pad, then degrease with Prepsol or a degreaser, then dunk
the parts in Alodyne and then wash. I understand this is nasty stuff and not
environmentally friendly, but I have access to the materials and a shop that
does it and can dispose of the materials.
My question is, should I Alodyne all parts of the tank prior to welding it
together, or weld it up except for the bottom, clean and Alodyne the
interiors, and then weld on the final section?
If there are any recommendations for other fuel-proof primers, I'm open to
suggestions on that too.. nothing is written in stone here.
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks |
Matt,
Having built two metal RV type aircraft I can speak having been there. All
parts of the aircraft had to be protected from corrosion except the fuel
tanks. I could never find any thing that said to do as you are thinking of
doing. Mr. VanGrunsvan, designer of the RV series, said not to prime the
fuel tanks. I plan to build aluminum tanks for my Piet and will not prime
the interior in any way. I will prime only the exterior parts of the tank.
My tanks will be rivited and sealed using the great Pro-Seal. I will clean
all mating surfaces and scotch Brite them . I use MEK to clean them being
sure to wear protective gloves. Oil from the finger tips can contaminate
the mating surfaces and perhaps not allow the Pro-Seal to adhere. I will
not slosh the tanks as there are some known cases where the slosh was
attacked by some fuel that apparently contained something beside gasoline.
The slosh came loose and created blockage in the fuel system. Pro-Seal, if
applied correctly, will seal up the tank completely. and rest assured, it
will not come off. Acetone does a great job of cleaning up. I will
pressure the tank to 1.5 lbs. of air pressure and test it for leaks using
bubble soapy solution. A blood pressure gage makes a great testing gage to
detect leaks. If it holds the pressure on the gage, you are in business. 55
reading on the gage relates to 1.5 to 2 lbs. of air pressure. I will also
use this.
Sorry for the long post but you ask a very important question.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: <Woodflier(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks
>
> I have a question for all you Pieters who have made your tanks out of
> aluminum. I've formed all the parts for the tank and clecoed everything
> together. I want to prime the inside particularly to fend off corrosion.
The
> material is 5052 aluminum sheet, and the traditional method is to clean it
up
> with a scotch brite pad, then degrease with Prepsol or a degreaser, then
dunk
> the parts in Alodyne and then wash. I understand this is nasty stuff and
not
> environmentally friendly, but I have access to the materials and a shop
that
> does it and can dispose of the materials.
>
> My question is, should I Alodyne all parts of the tank prior to welding it
> together, or weld it up except for the bottom, clean and Alodyne the
> interiors, and then weld on the final section?
>
> If there are any recommendations for other fuel-proof primers, I'm open to
> suggestions on that too.. nothing is written in stone here.
>
> Matt Paxton
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks |
HI Matt,
I don't know the definitive answer here, but what I've done is to clean the
areas that were to be welded with a commercial cleaner prior to welding,
then I intend to take the tank to a commercial opeation in Greensboro, NC,
where they can immerse the entire tank in a vat and anodize it inside and
out.
All of this is probably unnecessary, since 5052 has good corrosion
resistance by itself.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
Where NX899JP just got her elevators covered today. Starting on the rudder
and vertical fin, then the horizontal stabilizer.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Woodflier(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks
I have a question for all you Pieters who have made your tanks out of
aluminum. I've formed all the parts for the tank and clecoed everything
together. I want to prime the inside particularly to fend off corrosion. The
material is 5052 aluminum sheet, and the traditional method is to clean it
up
with a scotch brite pad, then degrease with Prepsol or a degreaser, then
dunk
the parts in Alodyne and then wash. I understand this is nasty stuff and not
environmentally friendly, but I have access to the materials and a shop that
does it and can dispose of the materials.
My question is, should I Alodyne all parts of the tank prior to welding it
together, or weld it up except for the bottom, clean and Alodyne the
interiors, and then weld on the final section?
If there are any recommendations for other fuel-proof primers, I'm open to
suggestions on that too.. nothing is written in stone here.
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
This is a heartfelt plea to those of you who might not have a lot of Pietenpol
reunions under their belts.
There was a recent post about a Tailwind gaggle going to an unnamed airport as
a jumping off place for Oshkosh. That's all well and good but..........
Please don't advertise (even with good intentions) to any other groups that Brodhead
would be a great place for them to assemble during the Piet reunion. In
the past we have had various groups "drop in" which severely strained the resources
and the volunteers at the airport. Comaraderie is a wonderful thing but
when a volunteer group plans for a particular bunch to show up and about triple
that number arrives........ you get the picture.
I'm sure the field loves to sell all the gas but other things have to be considered
like: longer lines for the shower, portapotties need replenished more often,
gathering food for the dinner has to be refigured at the last minute, more
trash to collect, not enough seats at meal-time, and other things that I don't
even know about. This thing is planned for months in advance, last minute changes
are not what future invitations are made of.
I'm sure the planners at Brodhead would be too polite to bring this up as they
welcome any and all, but I have seen and heard their concerns in the past. I guess
if we can all remember that this is the "Brodhead PIETENPOL REUNION", that's
all that has to be said.
Thanks for reading my rant,
Larry
ps. Thank everyone at Brodhead that has ANYTHING to do with putting on the reunion!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks |
Matt
I had some similar concerns building my tank but not corrosion. I worried
about possible future leaks around welded seams.
The welder that put my tank together happend to be into HotRods. He had a
gatalog from Eastwood Company , 1-800-345-1178 specializing in racing /
custom auto etc. Try www.eastwoodcompany.com They have a fuel tank
sealer suitable for coating the inside of antique fuel tanks to seal leaks.
You can coat the entire tank or as I did, order a pint, enough to seep into
all seams.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: <Woodflier(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks
>
> I have a question for all you Pieters who have made your tanks out of
> aluminum. I've formed all the parts for the tank and clecoed everything
> together. I want to prime the inside particularly to fend off corrosion.
The
> material is 5052 aluminum sheet, and the traditional method is to clean it
up
> with a scotch brite pad, then degrease with Prepsol or a degreaser, then
dunk
> the parts in Alodyne and then wash. I understand this is nasty stuff and
not
> environmentally friendly, but I have access to the materials and a shop
that
> does it and can dispose of the materials.
>
> My question is, should I Alodyne all parts of the tank prior to welding it
> together, or weld it up except for the bottom, clean and Alodyne the
> interiors, and then weld on the final section?
>
> If there are any recommendations for other fuel-proof primers, I'm open to
> suggestions on that too.. nothing is written in stone here.
>
> Matt Paxton
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks |
I would agree not to alodine before welding, because the welding will burn
it off where you most want it. Personally, I just prime the exterior with a
good self etching primer (Variprime). I have always used Randolph sloshing
sealer on the interior and have never had any trouble with it even using
auto fuel, although I have heard stories of it coming off with fuel which
has alcohol in it. I recently cut open a fuel tank that had sloshing sealer
in it over ten years ago -- I couldn't bead blast the stuff off.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Although my Piet flies hands off as far as stability, reduced power flying only,
I still had an annoying problem with having to hold slight fwd pressure on
the stick at cruise RPM. Became a problem when flying for more than an hour.
I know this was talked about awhile ago, I thought I'd add what I did and the results.
The holding fwd pressure virtually went away by adjusting the fwd wires on the
horizontal stabilizer. Loosened the lower exactly 2 turns and then tightened
the upper the same 2 turns. When viewing from the front of the plane, with the
root of the stab. flat, the outter leading edge seems to have been raised about
1/8 inch.
Test flew it and it was right on the money.
walt
in NJ where the sky was all the way to the ground all day
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tires, taxiing, & stuff (and shock cord terminal |
serving method)
Group,
With reference to the time-honored method of "whipping" (or "serving") shock
cord
loop-type ends, a good authority is AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE for the AIR-
PLANE MECHANIC by Brimm and Boggess, 1940, pp.397,398.
Essentially, B.& B. say that rib stitching cord be used; the elastic shock
cord be stretched at least 10 % while being served; each turn of the
wrapping be secured by a half hitch; the length of the served section be at
least 4 times the shock cord diameter. The half hitches should be in a neat
line and a couple of coats of clear dope over the whipping is recommended.
Nylon tie wraps could prove handy to hold the shock cord together while
doing the whipping job, but I would hesitate to rely on them alone to secure
the terminal ends.
I have used the serving method described above on landing gear shock cords
and ski rigging for over 50 years and it has always proved to be reliable.
I use it on the straight axle landing gear of my Sperry Messenger Biplane
reproduction and it is completely satisfactory---except that now I'm getting
too old and weak to stretch that 1/2" shock cord anymore!
This serving method has been around since the early days of aviation and is
very much in keeping with the period represented by BHP's aeroplane.
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN in sunny, but cool, Alberta, Canada)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tires, taxiing, & stuff (and shock cord terminal |
serving...
In a message dated 5/11/03 3:54:32 PM Central Daylight Time,
grhans@cable-lynx.net writes:
<< With reference to the time-honored method of "whipping" (or "serving")
shock
cord
loop-type ends, a good authority is AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE for the AIR-
PLANE MECHANIC by Brimm and Boggess, 1940, pp.397,398.
Essentially, B.& B. say that rib stitching cord be used; the elastic shock
cord be stretched at least 10 % while being served; each turn of the
wrapping be secured by a half hitch; the length of the served section be at
least 4 times the shock cord diameter. The half hitches should be in a neat
line and a couple of coats of clear dope over the whipping is recommended. >>
This is how I did my split axle gear bunji's. Speaking of split axle, didn't
Piper Aircraft copy this design from Pietenpol ?
Chuck Gantzer
with most of a 72 X 42 prop whittled out.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Piper shock struts |
Chuck asked. "Did Piper copy BHP's shock struts?'' Hi Chuck, if they
did they made a great improvement by turning the lower bungee cord tube
perpendicular to the top one then using bungee cord rings. It never
dawned on me to build my lower shock struts that way until after I had
them built. ( the second time ). It would be so simple to have done it
J-3 style. With a home made tool you could install shock rings in about
5 minuets. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Pundsack <spundsack(at)bereskinparr.com> |
I'm slow at reading through the list digest, but I didn't see an answer to
someone's question about the Ontario Piet fly-in. Its on June 14th and
still in Brussels. Contact person is Jim Armstrong at 519-887-6753.
Scott Pundsack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | tye-wraps, and don't forget a loop of 1/8" safety cable |
Group-- The mention of the tye wraps deteriorating over time is
correct. They get brittle in time but the bungees get tired about the same
time so it is a recurring type of maintenance that us Pieters have to
do. If you choose the tye wraps, look for GOOD quality ones. Not the
cheap ones made in China. This is a must. Someone on the list mentioned
the safety loop of cable around the axle and the ash gear 'U' bottom in
case the bungees let loose or the ends come undone. This is a must as
well. There are pics of this on the matronics photoshare of mine. It's
just a loop of 1/8" cable about 12" in diameter that you swage on each side
to keep your axle from going clear up into the belly should you loose a
bungee. Tony B. gives a few other methods of terminating the bungee ends
too like the whipping/lacing/knoting and even I think hose clamps.
One thing that is REALLY obvious is that the smoke system
deteriorates the bungees more than the non-smoking bungee. ( I have the
smoke coming out of the right exhaust pipe only) When I replace the right
side the cord is more stiff and not as flexible as the other side. The
oil predictably does the rubber bands in more quickly than the non oil
side. I'd say on average I replace my bungees every two seasons of
flying or so. A NUTHER thing the straight axle guys need to keep in mind
are those nuts and bolts that hold those metal U shaped plates in place at
the V bottom by the ash blocks and gear legs. If you've got way too much
bolt sticking out (more than 2 threads) washer up your nuts (ouch) so the
bungees don't have that to chaffe against.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | There will be a Luscombe gathering at Brodhead TOO |
Larry-- somewhere I read (maybe the last issue of the newsletter ?) that
there will be (in addition to the Piets and now Tailwinds) a gathering of
Luscombes too a the Piet fly-in. Maybe I'll drive to Osh instead:)
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
Don't listen to any codswallow Chris! Brodhead is for any and all who
are interested in Pietenpols. There are no screwball requirements other
than that. Others have flown in in other than Piets, you have to get
there somehow.
However, you might get the smallest brat on sat night. :
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
Last year in June there were a bunch of Tailwinds at the SAA fly in at
Frasca Field in Chaimpaign/Urbana, Ill. C/U is east of springfield, Ill .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
C'mon folks, it is not a question of what you arrive in. It is a question
of people taking it on themselves to "invite" other airplane groups to hold
a fly-in at a private airport during the Piet fly-in. Brodhead is a private
airport and all of the services are provided by volunteers and paid for,
initially, our of their own pockets. The Brodhead folks are extremely
generous and get understandably upset at uninvited guests. Piet people can
arrive by car, plane (of any type), dogsled, or on their hands and knees.
Just don't tell the RV crowd they're welcome to drop in for an informal
fly-in at the same time.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead
>
> Don't listen to any codswallow Chris! Brodhead is for any and all who
> are interested in Pietenpols. There are no screwball requirements other
> than that. Others have flown in in other than Piets, you have to get
> there somehow.
> However, you might get the smallest brat on sat night. :
> )
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | 75th Anniversary of Pietdom flyIn at AirVenture 2004 |
I agree with Ted Brousseau that we should mark the 75th anniversary
of Bernie's influence with some sort of nationally recognized action.
The Piet flyin from Brodhead to Oshkosh seems like a good way to do this,
as such an event will be covered not only by "us guys" (Piet people), but
by EAA and the national sport aviation press. This leverages the amount,
and perhaps the quality, of the news releases.
I will get in touch with the EAA people to see if this can be a reality,
and will report back to the group.
Once we get on the list with EAA, we can start to call on Piet people to
put it all together.
The last Piet flyin to Oshkosh was very well done. A few key people, but
no committees. And it was a lot of fun! The Piet group got a lot of
press. Even made some new people realize that the Piet is out there, ready
to be built in your own garage!
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | I see a mass flight of Pietenpols deveoping.... |
You wrote::
Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips"
Hear, Hear!!
I used to own a Cessna 140 and would be proud to fly it into Brodhead. I
would even be proud to fly the Cherokee that I'm driving now (while trying
to earn an instrument rating) in there, even though it has one of those
"training wheels" hanging under its chin.
Frankly, I doubt if all the Tailwinds in the world would strain the
resources of any decent fly-in. There just can't be that many of them. Now
if an RV fly-in dropped in, that might be a problem.
To a different, but related topic: Has anyone started thinking about NEXT
year (2004), when the design we all love will be the grand old age of 75?
Is there going to be a crowd of Piets at Brodhead, to then assemble and
attack Oshkosh en masse? I for one am planning on bringing NX899JP to
Wisconsin then. It will be an interesting trip - 900 miles over the
Appalachian mountains and around Chicago (or right over O'Hare - I've got a
mode C transponder. Imagine the frustration of approach control
"Experimental 899 Juliet Papa, can you please expedite? We show you doing
only 60 knots.")
Jack Phillips
Jack, we ought to hook up and fly out together next year, assuming mine is
done. Imagine what we could stir up with a flight of 2!
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | The real question about Brodhead is.......... |
regardless of how many other type aircraft visit the Pietenpol Fly-In how
many of US will actually fly our completed
Piets there ? We stopped going to Brodhead a while back because this big
hyped-up event was fizzling out quickly
with sometimes only two Piets showing up and the rest back in hangars in
dusty stages of completion. Nothing wrong
with only two Piets showing up, but it would be great if we could get
more. Walt Evans is right----it takes quite a bit
of human endurance to fly a plane like a Piet more than two hours at a
stretch on long cross country flights. Everybody
wants a ride in a Piet at Brodhead too and with two or three planes it's
not easy getting to everyone. What we really
need is for people to pull up their boot straps and show up with flying
Piets like they used to do in the early 90's.
I know there are a bunch of you in the trenches who will be flying by next
season that want to make the 75th Anniversary
thing even bigger than our 70th gathering wether it be at Brodhead and or
Oshkosh and that is great. For the rest who like
to just jaw flap, get to building.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
YEP. Last week was freezing and lots of rain. February was a great
month to fly. I took off work yesterday to fly over my daughters track
meet, after having lunch with her. Great fun. It was the first T-shirt
flight of the year.
Steve e.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
McNarry
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
Hi Steve E
Warm enough to fly in Utah yet?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Eldredge
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 cleanup
Steve E (yes I still lurk once in a while....)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol fly-in |
OK, I kind of figured that somebody would read only part of my post and go off
half cocked so.....
The intent of my letter was to plead for those of you who might be "movers and
shakers" in your area to NOT invite your assembled squadrons and legions and wave
after wave of
your group from some distant location and suggest that Brodhead might be "just
the place" to assemble so you could then all fly into OSH together.
I'm certain that if you would look again at my posting, you would realize the intent
was never to suggest excluding anyone from alighting at the fabled Brodhead
airport. It was merely an attempt to not have it become a parking lot for
the sizeable N. Cal. contingent that over-ran the property last year.
Be sure of your aim before you shoot.
Larry
ps. What's a lucomb??
________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
Gene, and others,
As part of the "sizeable N. California contingent" which came in and
"took over" the Pietenpol Fly-in, I'd like to state that I came because I am
a Piet enthusiast, a potential builder and thought that we were welcome. The
tone of the comments I'm reading now, from other Piet enthusiasts makes me
question the attitude of those folks. I have always been attracted to the
Piet, and to the type of people who have been similarly drawn to it. I have
attended Brodhead Fly-ins on three occasions, and been made to feel welcome.
I hope that this group is not going to adopt the attitude that "outsiders"
are not welcome. That would be more than sad.
Don Cooley
Ercoupe N3571H
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com |
i'm well along with the parts for the Center Section now, and just recently
reread the Construction Manual. In Bernie's write-up, Converting the Corvair
Engine, he brings up some of the changes he made and/or recommends. He
suggests making the cabanes 4 inches longer, and slanting the wing back 3
inches. (Page 54).
I've already cut my cabane materials for 2 inch extensions, and have designed
the flop with a dog-leg. Great for the pilot, but a couple more inches under
the wing would sure help[ the passenger(me)!
Just starting on the motor mount. I'd like to extend this out a little bit
too. My Corvair will have a starter a la W. Wynne. How about 4" forward for a
start?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Wilcox" <CRAIGWILCOX(at)peoplepc.com> |
Now, don't ya'll go getting upset 'cause some damn elitist tried to become
more of one! If yall are interested in Piets, it doesn't matter what you
arrive in - enjoy yourselves!
----- Original Message -----
From: <ADonJr(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead
>
> Gene, and others,
> As part of the "sizeable N. California contingent" which came in
and
> "took over" the Pietenpol Fly-in, I'd like to state that I came because I
am
> a Piet enthusiast, a potential builder and thought that we were welcome.
The
> tone of the comments I'm reading now, from other Piet enthusiasts makes me
> question the attitude of those folks. I have always been attracted to the
> Piet, and to the type of people who have been similarly drawn to it. I
have
> attended Brodhead Fly-ins on three occasions, and been made to feel
welcome.
> I hope that this group is not going to adopt the attitude that "outsiders"
> are not welcome. That would be more than sad.
>
> Don Cooley
> Ercoupe N3571H
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | "...some damn elitist" |
It's not an issue of keeping interested people away, it's an issue of
the Piet flyin becoming so laborious that the volunteers are literally
ran into the ground. These folks are the reason that there is a Piet.
fly in. I think we are taking them for granted. A few extra sheckles in
the coffee can isn't going to help. It's not a question of money. The
volunteers are doing it for free and everyone who eats pays for their
meal. These good folks start working on the Pietenpol fly in weeks in
advance and it would be just as easy for them to go up to Osh. and
volunteer their time or just set in a lawn chair and watch the early
birds arrive. Which would you rather do, relax at Osh. or work your @%&
off at Brodhead. Leon S. Seeing the hand writing on the wall. Do not
archive.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
Don,
You still dont get the message, even for me (english second language)
was clear...
What he wants to say is something very "normal" for some pilots:
"Hey, lets go ALL OF US to Brodhead, is a cool place to stay , just a
few days before Airventure, they have a little Piet Fly Inn and also
some camping area and services... Doesnt matter that we are 200 planes
with two people in each one, is THEIR problem... Joe Doe (a Piet
builder) invited us....
This is exactly what he said NOT: "No Piet airplanes allowded"
JEESS is clear as water for me.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Piet lover, 701 builder, No Not going this year :-)
--- ADonJr(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Gene, and others,
> As part of the "sizeable N. California contingent" which came
> in and
> "took over" the Pietenpol Fly-in, I'd like to state that I came
> because I am
> a Piet enthusiast, a potential builder and thought that we were
> welcome. The
> tone of the comments I'm reading now, from other Piet enthusiasts
> makes me
> question the attitude of those folks. I have always been attracted
> to the
> Piet, and to the type of people who have been similarly drawn to it.
> I have
> attended Brodhead Fly-ins on three occasions, and been made to feel
> welcome.
> I hope that this group is not going to adopt the attitude that
> "outsiders"
> are not welcome. That would be more than sad.
>
> Don Cooley
> Ercoupe N3571H
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Here's what it's all about..... |
> Really, this is the real deal (click on the link below)......a very nicely
built Pietenpol
> almost ready for taxi testing/runup, hanger talk, just sittin' around
> sharing how we got into this sweet obsession......
>
> When I grow up this is where I wanna hang out......
>
> Jim in Plano, just expoxied the last (I hope my boss doesn't read this...)
> piece of 1/16x2 ply to the center section end ribs, UPS just delivered the
> filler cap and neck from Wag Aero, just waiting on the Stearman type fuel
> level guage and the center section will be ready for one last coat of
> varnish/covering!!! WOHOOOOOOOOO!!!
>
>
> > To view Jim Markle's pictures at Shutterfly,
> > simply go to:
> >
> > <http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b33eb1c12574>
> >
> > (If you can't click on this link, try copying and pasting it
> > into your web browser.)
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BFD" <mrclean(at)arkansas.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Iron Butt Brousseau |
Dear YKW and others,
The sport pilot issue will help some of us who can pass a physical but
just can't afford a $125.00 physical. I finally located one 50 miles away
that does it for $80.00. Thats still 2 much. Anybody know what is the
earliest you can arrive and set up camp at Brodhead? Thanks,Bill
> Get ready Brodhead, here we come. >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard deCosta <curiousspider(at)yahoo.com> |
Hey all. What would you say is the optimal prop size
for a Ford Piet? What's too big? I have a chance to
buy one, but it looks pretty big.
=====
http://www.RicharddeCosta.com
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel" <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
"Nieuport Builders Group" ,
"Pietenpol Group"
I am trying to cut 1/8" cable and having trouble getting a clean, smooth
cut. I bought the small cable cutters from Harbor Freight, but they just
bend it. I could not find a good one at Home Depot or Loews. I had my doubts
about the HF one, but it was cheap.
What have you guys used? Dremel with a cutoff wheel? Hack saw (this kind of
works, takes a bit of dressing up afterward)? I need it to cut stainless up
the 1/8". Thanks.
Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
MyKitPlane.com
EAA Chapter 12, Houston
gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
gmcneel(at)simdesk.com
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=319
"What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
- Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply to
a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Gagliano" <gagliano.home(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | SS Cable Cutters |
Try a marine store that sells SS rigging wire for sailboats- the blades 'capture'
the wire as it cuts
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable cutting |
There is a special cable cutter you can buy from aviation tool supply
places. I just bought my third or fourth one (they keep walking away) and I
think it was about $40. The blades come together in a circular motion so
that they don't crush the cable but cut around it evenly. If you want, I'll
find the catalog and part number. I dont know of anything else that works
better.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable cutting |
Vise anvil and cold chisel.
DickG.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary McNeel" <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com>
Builders Group" ; "Pietenpol Group"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cable cutting
>
> I am trying to cut 1/8" cable and having trouble getting a clean, smooth
> cut. I bought the small cable cutters from Harbor Freight, but they just
> bend it. I could not find a good one at Home Depot or Loews. I had my
doubts
> about the HF one, but it was cheap.
>
> What have you guys used? Dremel with a cutoff wheel? Hack saw (this kind
of
> works, takes a bit of dressing up afterward)? I need it to cut stainless
up
> the 1/8". Thanks.
>
> Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
> MyKitPlane.com
> EAA Chapter 12, Houston
> gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
> gmcneel(at)simdesk.com
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=319
>
> "What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
>
> - Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply
to
> a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his
plane.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable cutting |
Sharp Cold chisel against a steel block works very well. I have even seen a
wood chisel used but the edge doesn't last very long. Takes a sharp rap with
a hammer.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary McNeel" <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com>
Builders Group" ; "Pietenpol Group"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cable cutting
>
> I am trying to cut 1/8" cable and having trouble getting a clean, smooth
> cut. I bought the small cable cutters from Harbor Freight, but they just
> bend it. I could not find a good one at Home Depot or Loews. I had my
doubts
> about the HF one, but it was cheap.
>
> What have you guys used? Dremel with a cutoff wheel? Hack saw (this kind
of
> works, takes a bit of dressing up afterward)? I need it to cut stainless
up
> the 1/8". Thanks.
>
> Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
> MyKitPlane.com
> EAA Chapter 12, Houston
> gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
> gmcneel(at)simdesk.com
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=319
>
> "What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
>
> - Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply
to
> a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his
plane.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"N11_Technical Group" ,
"Nieuport Builders Group"
| Subject: | Re: Cable cutting |
I used a dremmel with a cutoff wheel. This works good but you have to
separate the two cables with a scrap of alum so you don't cut strands on the
good cable. Oh yeah, wrap the piece to be cut in masking tape, this way the
strands don't "birdcage" on you. This worked for me on two projects.
Tony B. suggests the cold chissel method.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary McNeel" <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com>
Builders Group" ; "Pietenpol Group"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cable cutting
>
> I am trying to cut 1/8" cable and having trouble getting a clean, smooth
> cut. I bought the small cable cutters from Harbor Freight, but they just
> bend it. I could not find a good one at Home Depot or Loews. I had my
doubts
> about the HF one, but it was cheap.
>
> What have you guys used? Dremel with a cutoff wheel? Hack saw (this kind
of
> works, takes a bit of dressing up afterward)? I need it to cut stainless
up
> the 1/8". Thanks.
>
> Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
> MyKitPlane.com
> EAA Chapter 12, Houston
> gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
> gmcneel(at)simdesk.com
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=319
>
April 22, 2003 - May 15, 2003
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dd