Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-de
May 15, 2003 - June 07, 2003
> "What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
>
> - Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply
to
> a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his
plane.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Cable cutting |
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
; "Nieuport Builders Group"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cable cutting
> I used a dremmel with a cutoff wheel. This works good but you have to
> separate the two cables with a scrap of alum so you don't cut strands on
the
> good cable. Oh yeah, wrap the piece to be cut in masking tape, this way
the
> strands don't "birdcage" on you. This worked for me on two projects.
> Tony B. suggests the cold chissel method.
> walt
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary McNeel" <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com>
> To: "N11_Technical Group" ; "Nieuport
> Builders Group" ; "Pietenpol Group"
>
> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 6:55 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cable cutting
>
>
>
> >
> > I am trying to cut 1/8" cable and having trouble getting a clean, smooth
> > cut. I bought the small cable cutters from Harbor Freight, but they just
> > bend it. I could not find a good one at Home Depot or Loews. I had my
> doubts
> > about the HF one, but it was cheap.
> >
> > What have you guys used? Dremel with a cutoff wheel? Hack saw (this kind
> of
> > works, takes a bit of dressing up afterward)? I need it to cut stainless
> up
> > the 1/8". Thanks.
> >
> > Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
> > MyKitPlane.com
> > EAA Chapter 12, Houston
> > gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
> > gmcneel(at)simdesk.com
> > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=319
> >
> > "What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
> >
> > - Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply
> to
> > a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his
> plane.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017(at)insightbb.com> |
Subject: | Re: Cable cutting |
1. Wrap the cable with masking tape were you plan to cut it.
2. Lay the cable on an anvil or other hard piece of thick steel.
3. Place a sharp cold chisel against the cable where you want to cut it.
4. Hit the chisel hard with a hammer.
5. Take the mashing tape off of the perfectly cut cable.
Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary McNeel" <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com>
Builders Group" ; "Pietenpol Group"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cable cutting
>
> I am trying to cut 1/8" cable and having trouble getting a clean, smooth
> cut. I bought the small cable cutters from Harbor Freight, but they just
> bend it. I could not find a good one at Home Depot or Loews. I had my
doubts
> about the HF one, but it was cheap.
>
> What have you guys used? Dremel with a cutoff wheel? Hack saw (this kind
of
> works, takes a bit of dressing up afterward)? I need it to cut stainless
up
> the 1/8". Thanks.
>
> Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
> MyKitPlane.com
> EAA Chapter 12, Houston
> gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
> gmcneel(at)simdesk.com
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=319
>
> "What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
>
> - Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply
to
> a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his
plane.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
My two cents worth. When you arrive, volunteer.
Sit those hardworking boys down, give them beer
and hamburgers and thank them profusely for
putting the show on. Then go clean the latrine.
Clif, on the far side of the mountains.
If anyone's interested I went to see the Mars
waterbombers. Pics at www.mykitplane.com
in my pic file--in the one labeled Victoria Piets.
What if this thing turned up???
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
I use a dremel with a cut off wheel. Bought two tubes of the little
wheels and two arbors for a nominal sum. Got the dremels in pawn shops
for about $10 ea. Worth their weight in gold, especially for cable.
Harbor Freight cutters make a fair paper weight, not a good one though.
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Cable cutting |
Gary,
Have you tried a sharp chisel with the cable laying on the anvil? Some say
this works great.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary McNeel" <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com>
Builders Group" ; "Pietenpol Group"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cable cutting
>
> I am trying to cut 1/8" cable and having trouble getting a clean, smooth
> cut. I bought the small cable cutters from Harbor Freight, but they just
> bend it. I could not find a good one at Home Depot or Loews. I had my
doubts
> about the HF one, but it was cheap.
>
> What have you guys used? Dremel with a cutoff wheel? Hack saw (this kind
of
> works, takes a bit of dressing up afterward)? I need it to cut stainless
up
> the 1/8". Thanks.
>
> Gary P. McNeel, Jr.
> MyKitPlane.com
> EAA Chapter 12, Houston
> gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com
> gmcneel(at)simdesk.com
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=319
>
> "What's the hurry? Are you afraid I won't come back?"
>
> - Manfred von Richthofen, 'The Red Baron,' last recorded words, in reply
to
> a request for an autograph as he was climbing into the cockpit of his
plane.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
Hi Richard
Interested in that answer my self. I figure the tall wheels for ground
clearance tail up, and then fit the biggest diameter you can. The pitch is
the tough question as everyone seems to have a different way of measuring
it. I figure the engine should pull under cruise RPM static and will likely
spin faster in cruise. I'm planning to run my modified B on a dyno to find
the rpm that it produces a happy amount of power with out over revving it.
The slower rpm and higher torque of the Fords means they should be able to
swing a large diameter. The large thrust disk should blow some air back past
that draggy airframe. Grin!
Weigh in guys, what works here?
John Mc
P.S.
Good to see you on the list again Richard.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
deCosta
Subject: Pietenpol-List: prop limits
Hey all. What would you say is the optimal prop size
for a Ford Piet? What's too big? I have a chance to
buy one, but it looks pretty big.
=====
http://www.RicharddeCosta.com
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary McNeel" <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
"N11_Technical Group" ,
"Nieuport Builders Group"
Subject: | Cable Cutters... |
Well, I used the wood chisel (all I had) and it worked BEAUTIFULLY. I may
invest in the more expensive cutters if need be, maybe I can find them
locally.
Thanks to all of you who gave me some advice. This building an airplane is a
blast.
-Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
I am thinking about getting a prop for my model A, too. If we reach a
concensus, maybe we could find a shop that would give a better price if we
order two or three of the same props?? I'd like to hear from everyone
flying a model A and what prop they have.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: prop limits
>
> Hi Richard
> Interested in that answer my self. I figure the tall wheels for ground
> clearance tail up, and then fit the biggest diameter you can. The pitch is
> the tough question as everyone seems to have a different way of measuring
> it. I figure the engine should pull under cruise RPM static and will
likely
> spin faster in cruise. I'm planning to run my modified B on a dyno to find
> the rpm that it produces a happy amount of power with out over revving it.
> The slower rpm and higher torque of the Fords means they should be able to
> swing a large diameter. The large thrust disk should blow some air back
past
> that draggy airframe. Grin!
>
> Weigh in guys, what works here?
>
> John Mc
>
> P.S.
> Good to see you on the list again Richard.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
> deCosta
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: prop limits
>
>
>
>
> Hey all. What would you say is the optimal prop size
> for a Ford Piet? What's too big? I have a chance to
> buy one, but it looks pretty big.
>
> =====
> http://www.RicharddeCosta.com
>
> __________________________________
> http://search.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Edwin Johnson <elj(at)shreve.net> |
Hello Gary,
>
> I am trying to cut 1/8" cable and having trouble getting a clean, smooth
> cut. I bought the small cable cutters from Harbor Freight, but they just
> bend it. I could not find a good one at Home Depot or Loews. I had my doubts
> about the HF one, but it was cheap.
The best tool I've ever seen is the Felco C-7, which sells for about $50.
A friend who is an A&P here in Shreveport has one and I've used it several
times for cables on the Maule. I wrote down the manufacturer and model so
I could get one if I needed to do lots of cable work. Finally I found the
following url: www.floridaplants.com/Store/pruners4.htm
A search for Felco might give other sources which sell this product. My
A&P friend reported that HF was now selling a replica of this tool for
about $45-50, but I can't verify that and would not know about its
quality.
...Edwin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Edwin Johnson ....... elj(at)shreve.net ~
~ http://www.shreve.net/~elj ~
~ ~
~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the ~
~ earth with your eyes turned skyward, ~
~ for there you have been, there you long ~
~ to return." -- da Vinci ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
Subject: | Re: Cable cutting |
AS&S has the Felco C7 for $44
I ordered mine last week.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Edwin Johnson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 7:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cable cutting
Hello Gary,
>
> I am trying to cut 1/8" cable and having trouble getting a clean, smooth
> cut. I bought the small cable cutters from Harbor Freight, but they just
> bend it. I could not find a good one at Home Depot or Loews. I had my doubts
> about the HF one, but it was cheap.
The best tool I've ever seen is the Felco C-7, which sells for about $50.
A friend who is an A&P here in Shreveport has one and I've used it several
times for cables on the Maule. I wrote down the manufacturer and model so
I could get one if I needed to do lots of cable work. Finally I found the
following url: www.floridaplants.com/Store/pruners4.htm
A search for Felco might give other sources which sell this product. My
A&P friend reported that HF was now selling a replica of this tool for
about $45-50, but I can't verify that and would not know about its
quality.
...Edwin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Edwin Johnson ....... elj(at)shreve.net ~
~ http://www.shreve.net/~elj ~
~ ~
~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the ~
~ earth with your eyes turned skyward, ~
~ for there you have been, there you long ~
~ to return." -- da Vinci ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com> |
Subject: | Does anyone on the list... |
Does anyone on the list live in the Knoxville, Tn. or Richmond Va. area. I
have a 3 month contract split between these 2 city's. Just wondering if
there was anyone to visit while I'm down there.
Ken,
GN1 2992
Canada
Ken Rickards
Cole Vision Canada
80 Centurion Drive,
Markham, Ontario.
L3R 8C1
tel 905-940-8675 ext 237
krickards(at)CVCI.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Iron Butt Brousseau |
BFD,
I usually try to arrive on the Wednesday, but that
is kind of early, most don't start arriving until Thursday night or Friday
morning.
Skip in Atlanta
----- Original Message -----
From: BFD
. Anybody know what is the
earliest you can arrive and set up camp at Brodhead? Thanks,Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 5/15/03 5:26:07 PM Central Daylight Time,
curiousspider(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< Hey all. What would you say is the optimal prop size
for a Ford Piet? What's too big? I have a chance to
buy one, but it looks pretty big. >>
The optimal prop size depends on how much horsepower you are getting from
your engine. The prop that Orin Hoopman drew plans for, dated 3/3/33, was
for a 76 X 48 prop. I believe this is the size that B.H.P used on his Model
A engines. It's called a 'Paddle Blade Prop', because chord is quite a bit
wider at about half way out the blade. These are the plans I used to build
the prop for my Model A, but mine was 75" dia. Doug Bryant used a 76 X 48 on
his Piet. Stock engine, I would get about 1650 rpm during ground run - up,
and unloaded in cruise flight I would get close to 1800 rpm. These are close
to the numbers that Doug got. Ken Perkins (Kansas City) thought we were
running too much prop for the Model A, and he uses a smaller dia and pitch,
but I don't remember what it was. Therefore he would run it at a higher rpm,
and take advantage of the higher horsepower above 2000 rpm. His Model A has
a pressure oil system, and that is DEFINATELY the way to go. The ol' Model
has potential to make good reliable power, but it has to be built to take
advantage of this potential...such as pressure oil system, improved induction
system, forged pistons, and a better prop flange / hub, to mention a few.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 5/16/2003 6:42:45 AM Central Standard Time,
rambog(at)erols.com writes:
> I'd like to hear from everyone
> flying a model A and what prop they have.
>
> Gene
>
Gene, I'm not flying yet but went through every issue of the BPAN back to
1982 and wrote down every mention of prop dimensions for the Model A. The
concensus by far was a 78/42. On the basis of this I ordered that size from
Chad Wilie (sp?) and was pleased with the quality. I am turning 1650 static
and anticipate 18-1900 in the air. Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Daniel Bailey" <dbceltic(at)micoks.net> |
Just curious, are any of y'all Piet folks going to the SAA Fly in at Urbana, in
June?
Dan Bailey
Paola, Ks
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
I went to it last year, and will probably go again this year.
Champaign/Urbana is only about 3 hrs or so by car from my house and it
is a neat town and it is inexpensive. Lot of bang for the buck.
Frasca has a neat museum there with loads of airplane stuff,
engines, collectables, motorcycles etc.Not to mention their factory
tours where they make their flight simulators.
There were about 18 tailwinds there and several Baby Ace's, Super
Aces, Junior Aces which resemble a Piet from a distance. They have steel
tube frames and the Super Ace is side by side enclosed. There were other
planes including a minimax and some biplanes which I cannot remember
what, but I think Hatz. It was a very good fly in, highly recommend it
if nearby, more like Brodhead than OshKosh.
They had several forums, William Wynne was one, but was early
saturday morning and I missed his talk, but found him later. There was
also a guy there who took digital photos of the planes and stuff and
burned them on CD's, printed the labels, stuck them on and sold them on
the spot. Which was interesting of itself.
Camping is primitive, showers available at the factory. All for a
donation.
Dennis Engelkenjohn
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Re: cabane struts |
Before I put saw to streamline tubing I just want to confirm the proper
length for the cabane struts. I thought that the conventional wisdom is to
lengthen them 2" from the drawings, but someone recently mentioned
lengthening them 3" or 4". I have also heard someone mention that there is
a maximum that should not be exceeded. What are the proper numbers??
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Subject: | Re: cabane struts |
Gene
I went 2" over, glad I did. Another inch would have been helpful, but in
Sport Aviation a couple of months ago there was a Piet that was built 4"
over. I don't know, I think that started stretching the porportional eye
appeal. Thats only my opinion.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
>
> Before I put saw to streamline tubing I just want to confirm the proper
> length for the cabane struts. I thought that the conventional wisdom is
to
> lengthen them 2" from the drawings, but someone recently mentioned
> lengthening them 3" or 4". I have also heard someone mention that there
is
> a maximum that should not be exceeded. What are the proper numbers??
>
> Gene
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: cabane struts |
In a message dated 5/17/03 10:19:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
rambog(at)erols.com writes:
<< What are the proper numbers?? >>
Gene,
I am 6' tall, and lengthened mine 2". From the left side I have to lift my
right foot to the seat, with both hands on the cabane struts,bring the left
foot up over, and streatch way out over the right side to get my foot up over
the longeron, while dragging my back on the bottom of the wing. It has
become very easy for me to get in and out, taking only a few seconds.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Gene,
I made mine 2-1/2" longer than plans and to me, they seem about right.
There is sufficient room under the wing to allow reasonable access to both
cockpits (I'm 6'2" tall). I have added steps to both cockpits and a
circular cutout in the trailing edge. Front cockpit is still a little
difficult to get in and out of. But as for the "correct" length, there is
no such animal, IMHO. I'll bet if you went to OSH and measured the struts
of the two BHP-built Piets there, you would find they had different lengths.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Before I put saw to streamline tubing I just want to confirm the proper
length for the cabane struts. I thought that the conventional wisdom is to
lengthen them 2" from the drawings, but someone recently mentioned
lengthening them 3" or 4". I have also heard someone mention that there is
a maximum that should not be exceeded. What are the proper numbers??
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
Subject: | Re: cabane struts |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
+++++++++++++++++++++
Gene,
I think that I read in one of the old BPA newsletters that Mr. Pietenpol
raised his wing 4" on one of the last Corvair powered planes that he built.
He later commented that this was too much.
I raised mine only 1", and since the thrust line of the prop has been raised
about 4 inches due to the reduction unit, the overall effect was very little
trim change with varied throttle settings.
Except for some arthritis, (getting old, you know) getting in and out is no
problem.
John
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Before I put saw to streamline tubing I just want to confirm the proper
> length for the cabane struts. I thought that the conventional wisdom is
to
> lengthen them 2" from the drawings, but someone recently mentioned
> lengthening them 3" or 4". I have also heard someone mention that there
is
> a maximum that should not be exceeded. What are the proper numbers??
>
> Gene
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Re: cabane struts |
Thanks everyone that have responded, I'm still interested to hear from more
of you. I am 6'1", so I want all the room I can get without messing up the
appearance. I still think I remember some mention of an upper limit for
some structural or aerodynamic reason.
I happen to have two pieces of streamline tubing the right size, and they
are 48" long. If I cut them so that one is 1" longer than the other, they
will turn out to be 24 1/2" and 23 1/2" long. Giving the proper edge
distance from the bolt holes that would make them 24 1/8" and 23 1/8"
between bolt holes (which I'll probably make an even 24 and 23) Soooooo
they'll be 2 1/2" longer than the plans. Enough to help without hurting the
appearance??
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jon Botsford" <botsford7(at)hot.rr.com> |
I just got home from four days of volunteer work at the Southwest Regional
Flyin, Tired. It is the extra work of the "extra" people that is the issue.
I still think that we all should go. However, Why not try to give a hand
while there. Three or four hours collecting garbage would be a very worthy
thing to do. It is low on the totem pole and is something that all will
benefit from. I know as most of my timeat SWRFI was spent doing that. Last
year was my first time at Brodhead and they are a very good group. When the
number of visitors is overwhelming the attitude can slip to why bother.
Lets all go and all help. It will be an excellent event!!
Jon Botsford
GN-1 N4057T
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead
Don,
You still dont get the message, even for me (english second language)
was clear...
What he wants to say is something very "normal" for some pilots:
"Hey, lets go ALL OF US to Brodhead, is a cool place to stay , just a
few days before Airventure, they have a little Piet Fly Inn and also
some camping area and services... Doesnt matter that we are 200 planes
with two people in each one, is THEIR problem... Joe Doe (a Piet
builder) invited us....
This is exactly what he said NOT: "No Piet airplanes allowded"
JEESS is clear as water for me.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Piet lover, 701 builder, No Not going this year :-)
--- ADonJr(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Gene, and others,
> As part of the "sizeable N. California contingent" which came
> in and
> "took over" the Pietenpol Fly-in, I'd like to state that I came
> because I am
> a Piet enthusiast, a potential builder and thought that we were
> welcome. The
> tone of the comments I'm reading now, from other Piet enthusiasts
> makes me
> question the attitude of those folks. I have always been attracted
> to the
> Piet, and to the type of people who have been similarly drawn to it.
> I have
> attended Brodhead Fly-ins on three occasions, and been made to feel
> welcome.
> I hope that this group is not going to adopt the attitude that
> "outsiders"
> are not welcome. That would be more than sad.
>
> Don Cooley
> Ercoupe N3571H
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: cabane struts |
In a message dated 5/18/2003 9:27:44 AM Central Standard Time,
rambog(at)erols.com writes:
> I still think I remember some mention of an upper limit for
> some structural or aerodynamic reason.
>
Gene, you may be thinking about the comment by Pete Bowers in his articles
for the BPAN in which he flew four or five different Piets. His opinion was
that if you lengthened the cabanes and were using a center section fuel tank
(assuming it was full) you would raise the vertical center of gravity and
tend to aggravate any tendency to ground loop. That may have some validity at
4 or more inches but doubt that 2 or less would make that much difference.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard deCosta <curiousspider(at)yahoo.com> |
Here's the goods on the prop (I bought it anyway, even
if it wont work on my plane, it's absolutely
gorgeous!):
On one side it has printed:
42
A 82 46 CC 249
Experimental
Felix Propellers, Inc.
It's all-natural wood finish, beautiful grain, blank
painted tips.
If this wont work on my Piet, I'll sell it off again.
Anyone?
Richard
=====
http://www.RicharddeCosta.com
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Honest? I say nada.....: Elbow room |
Jim,
Now thats the kind of comments I like. Whether you would do the same is not
in consideration. I like the idea of arm rest and I will have room for them.
I can see a left arm rest angled so the arm is comfortable on the throttle. A
very important point to me. thanks for the idea. I have felt that 41CC is a
bit confined. A possibility that Mr. Piet wanted to get two cuts from one 4X8
piece of plywood. Maybe not, but I got my 1/4 inch fir marine grade from
Wickes for about $45. That's the cheap end of building an aeroplane.
Thanks again for your comments
Corky in YKW
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Hey All
Now that the warmer weather is coming to Mn. I can work with the hangar door open.
I get a constant stream of visitors stopping by to chew the fat. It's another
side benefit of having a Piet.
Anyway, today a A&P stopped by and made a couple of comments I thought worth passing
on. He commented first on my placement of the gascolator on the firewall.
He suggested that I move it so that at rest it was lower that the carb bowl
at rest, to be the lowest point in the system. Also, he suggested to do a fuel
flow test to verify that at rest, the fuel line provides a flow of 10 gal/hr.
with minimum usable fuel remaining in the tank to simulate adequate flow for
a go around. Also an extended test of the flow to verify adequate venting
of the tank.
Just a couple of points I don't recall having seen on the list.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
Dick
It is a good idea to do your flow test at max climb angle. If you ever
ended up making a go around after a missed approach with low tanks it might
be the factor that saves your #####.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
Navratril
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel system
Hey All
Now that the warmer weather is coming to Mn. I can work with the hangar door
open. I get a constant stream of visitors stopping by to chew the fat.
It's another side benefit of having a Piet.
Anyway, today a A&P stopped by and made a couple of comments I thought worth
passing on. He commented first on my placement of the gascolator on the
firewall. He suggested that I move it so that at rest it was lower that the
carb bowl at rest, to be the lowest point in the system. Also, he suggested
to do a fuel flow test to verify that at rest, the fuel line provides a flow
of 10 gal/hr. with minimum usable fuel remaining in the tank to simulate
adequate flow for a go around. Also an extended test of the flow to verify
adequate venting of the tank.
Just a couple of points I don't recall having seen on the list.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Good points, Dick.
Another point to mention when choosing a spot to mount the gascolator on the
firewall - while it needs to be lower than the carb float chamber so it is
the fuel system's lowest point, it also should NOT be the lowest point on
the firewall. There should be structure lower than the gascolator so that
if a really bad landing wipes the gear off, the gascolator is not the point
that the sliding fuselage is resting upon. Otherwise, it will be destroyed
in a hurry and all that fuel will be deposited right where the friction has
gotten things really hot. Not good, but spectacular.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Navratril
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel system
Hey All
Now that the warmer weather is coming to Mn. I can work with the hangar door
open. I get a constant stream of visitors stopping by to chew the fat.
It's another side benefit of having a Piet.
Anyway, today a A&P stopped by and made a couple of comments I thought worth
passing on. He commented first on my placement of the gascolator on the
firewall. He suggested that I move it so that at rest it was lower that the
carb bowl at rest, to be the lowest point in the system. Also, he suggested
to do a fuel flow test to verify that at rest, the fuel line provides a flow
of 10 gal/hr. with minimum usable fuel remaining in the tank to simulate
adequate flow for a go around. Also an extended test of the flow to verify
adequate venting of the tank.
Just a couple of points I don't recall having seen on the list.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Plywood spar web |
Well, I can hear a tiny bit of hesitation in my Tech Counselor's voice when we
talk about my decision to use marine grade 1/2" ply built up into an I beam for
the spar on my Air Camper.
Sure would be nice to show him the calculations the Brits are using or anything
else that (clearly) shows the numbers. I can review the shear/moment/etc numbers
on ply versus spruce/doug fir but if anyone knows of a good paper that's
been done, that would sure help me present my case.
Doc Mosher? Alan James?
Thanks,
Jim in Plano
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Thanks for the good words about the video tape, Oscar. (cute dog, by the
way) Info on the video and
ordering info is available at this web
site: http://users.aol.com/bpabpabpa/cuyvideo.html
Fred-- if you have a VCR in Australia that can play a non-PAL format my
tape will work fine for you. Otherwise
you'll have to take the tape to a place and have it dubbed from the US into
the PAL format so it will play
correctly on your VCR. Simon McCormack (Tasmania, Australia) and I found
this out while exchanging video
tapes over that past several years)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John_Duprey(at)vmed.org |
05/20/2003 02:01:49 PM
Fred: The US format is NTSC if you do not allready know that.... And Mike's
tape is well worth having converted....
Michael D Cuy (at)matronics.com on 05/20/2003
01:45:13 PM
Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: video info
Thanks for the good words about the video tape, Oscar. (cute dog, by the
way) Info on the video and
ordering info is available at this web
site: http://users.aol.com/bpabpabpa/cuyvideo.html
Fred-- if you have a VCR in Australia that can play a non-PAL format my
tape will work fine for you. Otherwise
you'll have to take the tape to a place and have it dubbed from the US into
the PAL format so it will play
correctly on your VCR. Simon McCormack (Tasmania, Australia) and I found
this out while exchanging video
tapes over that past several years)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Plywood spar web |
From: | cat_designs(at)juno.com |
You could try reading the NACA paper entitled "The Strength of One-Piece Solid
Built Up and Laminated Wood Airplane Wing Beams" it's from 1920. It tests a bunch
of different types of construction for built up wing spars. You can find
it at.
http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/1920/naca-report-35/
Chris
Sacramento, CA
--- Jim Markle wrote:
Well, I can hear a tiny bit of hesitation in my Tech Counselor's voice when we
talk about my decision to use marine grade 1/2" ply built up into an I beam for
the spar on my Air Camper.
Sure would be nice to show him the calculations the Brits are using or anything
else that (clearly) shows the numbers. I can review the shear/moment/etc numbers
on ply versus spruce/doug fir but if anyone knows of a good paper that's
been done, that would sure help me present my case.
Doc Mosher? Alan James?
Thanks,
Jim in Plano
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Thanks for the spar info!!! |
I'm continually amazed at what incredible resources we have in this group!
Having a good local EAA chapter is important. But having this group really
makes the process amazing! (In fact, the spar article from Sport Aviation
and the NACA Report
No. 344 were mailed to me yesterday......)
Thanks for everyone's help/feedback. The numbers are in and I'm quite
satisfied that an I beam spar design will work just fine. A 1/4"(quite
adequate) or 3/8"(probably more than adequate) plywood web is what I'll use.
So full height ply with 1" tall strips of Doug Fir, each side of the top and
bottom, to build out the "I" design.
I found that a number of British Piets are flying with an I beam spar design
that incorporates aircraft quality plywood webs in the 1/8" thickness range.
So actually doing the calculations can result in a good safe structure
(estimated 1200# MUAW) with a lot less than my "overbuilding" tendencies
would dictate!
Thanks again.
Jim in Plano, TX having just completed my second Tech Counselor inspection
and it looks like I'm on the right track! :-)
My build log: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=52
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"Fishnet"
Subject: | anyone use one of those boat "clinometers" for a turn |
and bank?
If so, do they work?
thanks
walt
20hrs 10min down///4hrs 50 min to go
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alan James" <MADjames(at)theknapp.freeserve.co.uk> |
Subject: | Looking for Warren |
Is Warren D Shoun looking in?
If so can you send me an e-mail so I can return some information. The
address I have keeps bouncing back.
Thanks
Alan James
The UK Pietenpol Club
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alan James" <MADjames(at)theknapp.freeserve.co.uk> |
Subject: | Re: Looking for Warren |
Dear Mr Deacon
I am grateful to you for responding to my call and I am saddened by the news
of Mr Shoun's passing.
I hope that my message has not upset anyone and would like to pass on my
belated condolences to any friends or family that may be reading this.
Sincerely
Alan James
----- Original Message -----
From: "mark deacon" <wrenchspinner1(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Warren
> http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/message?sn=0&hit=5
>
> Mr. James
>
> I have the unhappy task of delivering some bad news.
> It was reported on the Corvaircraft mail list that Mr.
> Shoun had passed away last June. The above link will
> take you to the Corvaircraft mail archive where you
> can read the entire string.
> I would suggest contacting Pat Panzera or Robert
> Sutcliffe for more information.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Mark Deacon
>
> --- Alan James
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Is Warren D Shoun looking in?
> >
> > If so can you send me an e-mail so I can return some
> > information. The
> > address I have keeps bouncing back.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Alan James
> > The UK Pietenpol Club
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://search.yahoo.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
Subject: | Re: anyone use one of those boat "clinometers" for a turn |
and bank?
Walt,
I believe that is what is on the one I am flying. If you mean the one that
has a little white ball in it. Works just fine.
I was thinking of hanging a little pendulum on the one I am building. Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: anyone use one of those boat "clinometers" for a
turn and bank?
>
> If so, do they work?
> thanks
> walt
> 20hrs 10min down///4hrs 50 min to go
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brants" <tmbrant(at)usfamily.net> |
Subject: | Piet builder at Crystal Airport |
At one time there was a Piet builder that had a plane at Crystal airport in MN.
I had exchanged emails with him but can't remember who it is. I'd like to set
up a visit if possible.
Thanks,
Tom Brant
Brooklyn Park, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 5/23/2003 5:20:01 PM Central Daylight Time, PNRBocchi
writes:
> ct: FW: Noah's Ark
> >>
After reading this silly little thing from a friend I thought about it and
realized how much it applied to Piet building. CMC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>This is really beautiful.
> >>
> >>Noah's Ark Everything I need to know, I learned from
> >Noah's Ark...
> >>ONE: Don't miss the boat.
> >>TWO: Remember that we are all in the same boat.
> >>THREE: Plan ahead. It wasn't raining when Noah built
> >the Ark.
> >>FOUR: Stay fit. When you're 60 years old, someone may
> >ask you to do
> >>something really big.
> >>FIVE: Don't listen to critics; just get on with the
> >job that needs to be
> >>done.
> >>SIX: Build your future on high ground.
> >>SEVEN: For safety's sake, travel in pairs.
> >>EIGHT: Speed isn't always an advantage. The snails
> >were on board with
> >>the cheetahs.
> >>NINE: When you're stressed, float awhile.
> >>TEN: Remember, the Ark was built by amateurs; the
> >Titanic by
> >>professionals.
> >>ELEVEN: No matter the storm, when you are with God,
> >there's always a
> >>rainbow waiting.
> >>
> >>My instructions were to send this to people that I
> >wanted God to bless
> >>and I picked you.
> >>Please pass this to people you want to be blessed.
> >>
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >http://search.yahoo.com
>
> _________________________________________________________________
From: PNRBocchi(at)aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 18:20:01 EDT
Subject: Fwd: Noah's Ark
From: "CHARLES F GARRISON" <our_ark(at)msn.com>
ggacres(at)juno.com, ksr51(at)attbi.com, KKirsh(at)aol.com, toogees(at)netzero.net,
KDown20368(at)aol.com, mjkgarrison(at)aol.com, pacer(at)west-connect.com,
rob(at)woohaw.com, bldbomer(at)aol.com, icphish(at)yahoo.com,
5luvnlife(at)email.com
Subject: Fwd: Noah's Ark
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 06:24:33 +0000
When I saw this I knew I had to 'pass it on'. It is very true.
Chuck & Sharon
>From: Chuck Garrison <garry4197478(at)yahoo.com>
>To: our_ark(at)msn.com
>Subject: Noah's Ark
>Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 23:14:43 -0700 (PDT)
>
> >Subject: FW: Noah's Ark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >This is really beautiful.
> >
> >Noah's Ark Everything I need to know, I learned from
>Noah's Ark...
> >ONE: Don't miss the boat.
> >TWO: Remember that we are all in the same boat.
> >THREE: Plan ahead. It wasn't raining when Noah built
>the Ark.
> >FOUR: Stay fit. When you're 60 years old, someone may
>ask you to do
> >something really big.
> >FIVE: Don't listen to critics; just get on with the
>job that needs to be
> >done.
> >SIX: Build your future on high ground.
> >SEVEN: For safety's sake, travel in pairs.
> >EIGHT: Speed isn't always an advantage. The snails
>were on board with
> >the cheetahs.
> >NINE: When you're stressed, float awhile.
> >TEN: Remember, the Ark was built by amateurs; the
>Titanic by
> >professionals.
> >ELEVEN: No matter the storm, when you are with God,
>there's always a
> >rainbow waiting.
> >
> >My instructions were to send this to people that I
>wanted God to bless
> >and I picked you.
> >Please pass this to people you want to be blessed.
> >
>
>
>__________________________________
>http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Subject: | Re: Piet builder at Crystal Airport |
Hi Tom
thats me. I'm out there quite a bit. anytime works for me, but out of
town this weekend.
Dick Navratil 651-638-0793
cell 612-805-1742
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brants" <tmbrant(at)usfamily.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builder at Crystal Airport
>
> At one time there was a Piet builder that had a plane at Crystal airport
in MN. I had exchanged emails with him but can't remember who it is. I'd
like to set up a visit if possible.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom Brant
> Brooklyn Park, MN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary McNeel" <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
"Sirius-Aviation Group" ,
"RV7and7A Group" ,
"Parasol Airplanes Yahoo Group" ,
"Group CorvAIRCRAFT" ,
"Flying Circus Yahoo Group" ,
"EAAHouston" ,
"CorvAircraft Mailing List" ,
"Boredomfighter Group" ,
"AirVW Yahoo Group" ,
"Airsoob Group" ,
"N11_Technical Group" ,
"Nieuport Builders Group" ,
"Pietenpol Group"
Subject: | PETE BOWERS, FLY BABY DESIGNER, PASSES AWAY |
I was contacted and asked to pass this along. Anyone with plans on order may
see a delay in getting them.
http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/030429_petebowers.html
Gary McNeel, Jr.
www.mykitplane.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
Subject: | am I back on line? |
Changed servers and went through the hassle of lineing up the new protocol.
Am I back on?
Another rainy day with out flying.
walt
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ken & Lisa Rickards" <KL0914(at)cogeco.ca> |
Subject: | Re: am I back on line? |
Yes Walt, Reading 5 -5 here in sunny Canada!
Ken
Gn1 2992
----- Original Message -----
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: am I back on line?
>
> Changed servers and went through the hassle of lineing up the new
protocol.
> Am I back on?
> Another rainy day with out flying.
> walt
> NX140DL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Tiger Moth / Pietenpol at Sun n Fun |
Hey Barry. How're those Piets coming along?
I've got my wings on now. Trying to make headway. Larry's got a Flyin'
Flea in the oven.
I'll take some pics and send em to you
Best, Bert
http://bconoly.tripod.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
"piet discussion"
Just got some pics from a friend of mine and had to post them to the newsgroup.
alt.binaries.pictures.aviation
Check it out.
walt evans
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gdascomb(at)aol.com |
I am about to drill the long fuselage for the cabane fittings and I am not
sure about the note "3/4 x 3" Filler for strut fitting" on the plans. Where does
this thing go exactly? And what is it?
Does it reinforce the cross strut that has to be cut to fit the front
fittings? I read some discussion on this on the British site but still don't
understand .
Please someone out there help before I do something stupid. Thanks.
George
Sugar Land, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
Walt
that address doesn't get the uninformed very far, if
you go to the picture yourself, high light the address
at the top of the screen. press "control c" then go to
your outgoing email and put the cursor on the body of
the letter and press"control v". this will put a link
into your email that other people can click on and go
direct to your pic.
on another note, I got my sonex/vair into the sky! so
its flying this summer and then back to the pietenpol
this winter, gotta get it done!
Thanks
Del
--- w b evans wrote:
>
>
> Just got some pics from a friend of mine and had to
> post them to the newsgroup.
> alt.binaries.pictures.aviation
> Check it out.
> walt evans
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
>
Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Strut fittings |
George,
The 3/4" x 3" filler glues to the rear of the fuselage
uprights (actually the back of the front seat support). Not sure why BHP
didn't just move the seat back 3/4", but there must have been a reason for
it.
Rod Wooller
Chidlow
Australia
>From: Gdascomb(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Strut fittings
>Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 20:34:38 EDT
>
>
>I am about to drill the long fuselage for the cabane fittings and I am not
>sure about the note "3/4 x 3" Filler for strut fitting" on the plans. Where
>does
>this thing go exactly? And what is it?
> Does it reinforce the cross strut that has to be cut to fit the front
>fittings? I read some discussion on this on the British site but still
>don't
>understand .
> Please someone out there help before I do something stupid. Thanks.
>George
>Sugar Land, Texas
>
>
ninemsn Extra Storage is now available. 30MB of storage on ninemsn Groups -
great for sharing photos and documents. Go to
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)yahoo.com> |
George,
As far as I understand the 3/4" x 3" is bit of reinforcement only. The
struts mount on the fuse uprights. Check out
http://www.pjshenton.go-plus.net/default.htm. Go to Builders Notes -
Fuselage. Half way down is an article on the fittings. Check out the
dimensions of the fittings on the center section and the fuse. Seems that
both ways work!
Hope that helps.
Peter.
Wonthaggi, Vic
Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rod wooller
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Strut fittings
-->
George,
The 3/4" x 3" filler glues to the rear of the fuselage
uprights (actually the back of the front seat support). Not sure why BHP
didn't just move the seat back 3/4", but there must have been a reason for
it.
Rod Wooller
Chidlow
Australia
>From: Gdascomb(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Strut fittings
>Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 20:34:38 EDT
>
>
>I am about to drill the long fuselage for the cabane fittings and I am
>not sure about the note "3/4 x 3" Filler for strut fitting" on the
>plans. Where does this thing go exactly? And what is it?
> Does it reinforce the cross strut that has to be cut to fit the front
>fittings? I read some discussion on this on the British site but still
>don't
>understand .
> Please someone out there help before I do something stupid. Thanks.
>George
>Sugar Land, Texas
>
>
ninemsn Extra Storage is now available. 30MB of storage on ninemsn Groups -
great for sharing photos and documents. Go to
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com> |
For any interested parties, I have just updated my web site. Added a few
more elevator construction and engine pics. Progress has been a bit slow
the past few weeks. Work around the house has kept me busy!
http://home.cogeco.ca/%7Epietbuilder/index.htm
Ken
GN1 2992
Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Rudder Bar and Pedal |
From: | cat_designs(at)juno.com |
I have a few questions after this long weekend.
#1: What size bolts should I use to hold the rudder bar support bracket to the
1/4" floor? I was thinking AN-4 (1/4")or should I step up to an AN-5 (5/16").
#2: I was trying to smash the ends of the rudder bar tubing like the plans show.
I heated up the tubing and squished them in my vice using two metal plates
with a curve bent into them so I can transition from flat to round. Here is
my problem, I can't seem to make the flat section perfectly flat. If I look at
it on end its more of a figure 8. The center of the flat section is pinched
in more then the edges. Is this how it is supposed to be or am I doing something
wrong here? Am I squishing them to much?
#3: What is the best way to hold or jig the 1/2" tubing for the front rudder pedals
so I can weld them. If I attach them to a board does the smoke and flame
contaminate the weld?
#4: What size bolt should I use to hold the front rudder pedal fittings to the
floor? There are two of them on such a small fitting so I am thinking two AN-3
bolts will be fine.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Peter (from Down Under) wrote-
>Check out http://www.pjshenton.go-plus.net/default.htm.
Yes, the 3/4" x 3" reinforcement is addressed there... and so much more.
For example, I know I've seen several Piets with nice steps, but here's a
great photo that says it all:
http://www.pjshenton.go-plus.net/pictures/Dscf0020.jpg
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "rambog(at)erols.com" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Rudder Bar and Pedal |
Original Message:
-----------------
From: cat_designs(at)juno.com
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 15:18:40 GMT
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Bar and Pedal
1. 1/4" bolt is fine for the support.
2. I've never used curved pieces, it isn't necessary. Just heat up and
flatten with the vise. Reheat as necessary and flatten some more. The
edges are slightly bulged where the metal is rounded down onto itself, I
don't think I would try to get them perfectly flat, you're just asking to
crack it.
3. Smoke from a wood jig does not contaminate. I have built rudder pedals
that way before. For my Piet, though, I now have a magnetic square for
holding just such things perfectly aligned. Most tool catalogs have them.
4. I would think one 3/16 bolt on each side is enough. I am still trying
to figure out how I am going to attach mine.
Just another opinion,
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Re: drilling holes in fuselage |
OK guys, I am trying to drill all of the holes in the fuselage and have some
questions.
1. Because I got all of my fuselage fittings from Replicraft, they are all
pre-drilled. Has anyone made a drilling jig to ensure that the drill goes
through and comes out the other side exactly centered in the hole on the
other side? I am mostly talking about the cabane strut, upper engine mount,
and tailwheel fittings. If anyone has such a jig, I'd like to borrow it.
2. I know there has been discussion on here about this, but I don't recall
if we reached a solution. Is there any reason to put bolts through the
leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer? I would think the ones through
the trailing edge/main spar and the center spar (both of which also hold
down the vertical fin) should be enough.
3. What kind of spacers have you guys been putting under the stab/fin? The
fin should be spaced so that it's spar is lined up with the tailpost so that
the rudder is not in a bind. If I place the stab on the fuselage, it sits
slightly nose down because the center spar is thinner than the rear spar.
Do most of you put spacers under the stab so that it is sitting level (and
therefore the fin is square with the tailpost), or does the stab stay nose
down and the spacers go under the fin?
4. What are most of you (particularly those with Model As) doing with the
firewall? Many of the Piets at Brodhead only cover the bottom square with
steel and leave the "shelf" behind the engine uncovered. The F&G plans
clearly show the sides and bottom of the "shelf" should be covered, although
it says to use aluminum. The later plans omit this entirely. It looks to
me like to cover the bottom only defeats the whole purpose of a firewall,
and would not keep fire out of the cockpit (not that I expect this is a high
risk) Concensus?
5. In response to my last question, which did not get very many responses,
I guess the most widely used prop for a Model A is a 76 x 44, but what about
blade profiles or specific manufacturers that any of you have had good/bad
experiences with? Surely there is one someone out there who, if called on
to build a prop for a Model A Piet will know exactly what I need.
I am sure there are more questions, but I'll save a few until after we solve
these. The list has been way too quiet lately.
Thanks,
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Stefan Vorkoetter <stefan(at)capable.ca> |
Subject: | Clipped wing Piet |
I'm considering starting building a Piet some time in the next few years,
and there's one modification I want to make. My hangar door opening is 28
feet wide, so I'd like to make the wing 27'6".
My extensive experience with model airplane aerodynamics leads me to
believe it won't be a problem, but will the inspector and/or insurance
company disagree?
Thanks
Stefan Vorkoetter
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
Subject: | Re: Clipped wing Piet |
hmmmmm the Piet already has a pretty low aspect ratio...
----- Original Message -----
From: Stefan Vorkoetter
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 12:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clipped wing Piet
I'm considering starting building a Piet some time in the next few years,
and there's one modification I want to make. My hangar door opening is 28
feet wide, so I'd like to make the wing 27'6".
My extensive experience with model airplane aerodynamics leads me to
believe it won't be a problem, but will the inspector and/or insurance
company disagree?
Thanks
Stefan Vorkoetter
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | Re: Clipped wing Piet |
You could build two low-riding caster-footed little plywood platforms that
the plane rolls up on outside the hangar and from there push the plane in
the hangar at a slight angle to clear the doors.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard deCosta <curiousspider(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | prop size final consensus? |
Hey all. Was there ever a final consensus on whether a
82" prop would work with the Model-A?
Richard
=====
http://www.RicharddeCosta.com
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Clipped wing Piet |
From: | Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
Stefan,
Several things will change from the many years' accumulated Piet experience.
Your wing will probably be ever so slightly better able to cope with high
G's because the spanwise center of lift will move a little toward the
airplane centerline.
By taking away 7.5 of your 145 square feet of wing area your stall speeds
will increase slightly, (about 2%). You may see slightly higher takeoff and
landing speeds.
Your induced drag, stronger at lower speeds, will increase slightly. (On a
Piet, parasitic drag is hugely dominant throughout most of the envelope so I
doubt if you'll notice.)
Your real experience will be in the unknowns of changed handling qualities.
You may have increased roll response (unless you clip each aileron by .75
feet, too), decreased roll stability, possibly increased yaw stability and a
number of others.
I don't know how many others have built clipped wing Piets but you're sure
to hear if anyone has had a bad experience.
Have you thought about widening your hangar door?
Mike Hardaway
on 5/28/03 12:02, Stefan Vorkoetter at stefan(at)capable.ca wrote:
>
> I'm considering starting building a Piet some time in the next few years,
> and there's one modification I want to make. My hangar door opening is 28
> feet wide, so I'd like to make the wing 27'6".
>
> My extensive experience with model airplane aerodynamics leads me to
> believe it won't be a problem, but will the inspector and/or insurance
> company disagree?
>
> Thanks
> Stefan Vorkoetter
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Stefan Vorkoetter <stefan(at)capable.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Clipped wing Piet |
>
> hmmmmm the Piet already has a pretty low aspect ratio...
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> I'm considering starting building a Piet some time in the next few years,
> and there's one modification I want to make. My hangar door opening is 28
> feet wide, so I'd like to make the wing 27'6".
I guess I didn't consider about 6:1 low, but perhaps it is for a full-scale
aircraft.
The other think I had thought of was to install rails and a dolly so I can
slide the plane into the hangar sideways.
Stefan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Gene. I bought a drill guide thing at Oshkosh several years ago that
works just fine for drilling holes straight. I've seen them at Ace
hardware, Harbor Tool, and other places since. It consists of a base
with 2 vertical rods that lean either direction for angle holes. On the
rods set a cross piece with a chuck for your drill bit, then you chuck
your drill to this chuck and go to town. The base also has ears to hold
tubing in perfect alignment for drilling holes threw tubing. It costed
about 25 bucks. I put glued
plywood on the fus., under the stab. until the stab. cord was level with
the fuselage longerons.
I plan to put screws threw the stab. leading edge as shown on the plans.
Again, I built up under the le. with ply so it is resting on something
when bolted down. I guess I will leave
the shelf bare like most people are doing. Running fabric up to the
firewall with no boot cowl also defeats fire prevention logic.
I haven't got to my prop yet, so I can't give an opinion there. I did
buy an adaptor from Dick Weeden at Brodhead so I can use props with the
Cont. bolt pattern. Does anyone know anything about the Model A guy and
his Model A conversion in DeLand Fl, mentioned in the new Sport Av.,
p.68? Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Stefan Vorkoetter <stefan(at)capable.ca> |
Subject: | Newcomer Question |
I often see references to a GN-1, and I think I saw reference to a GN-2 as
well. Is that a particular model of Aircamper, or someone's redesign?
Stefan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | Re: Drilling holes |
Gene-- I just drilled a little bit from each side of those fittings and
continued til the two holes met.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: drilling holes in fuselage |
From: | cat_designs(at)juno.com |
What about using/making something like in this picture. (I hope it is attached)
Chris
Sacramento, CA
--- "Gene Rambo" wrote:
OK guys, I am trying to drill all of the holes in the fuselage and have some
questions.
1. Because I got all of my fuselage fittings from Replicraft, they are all
pre-drilled. Has anyone made a drilling jig to ensure that the drill goes
through and comes out the other side exactly centered in the hole on the
other side? I am mostly talking about the cabane strut, upper engine mount,
and tailwheel fittings. If anyone has such a jig, I'd like to borrow it.
2. I know there has been discussion on here about this, but I don't recall
if we reached a solution. Is there any reason to put bolts through the
leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer? I would think the ones through
the trailing edge/main spar and the center spar (both of which also hold
down the vertical fin) should be enough.
3. What kind of spacers have you guys been putting under the stab/fin? The
fin should be spaced so that it's spar is lined up with the tailpost so that
the rudder is not in a bind. If I place the stab on the fuselage, it sits
slightly nose down because the center spar is thinner than the rear spar.
Do most of you put spacers under the stab so that it is sitting level (and
therefore the fin is square with the tailpost), or does the stab stay nose
down and the spacers go under the fin?
4. What are most of you (particularly those with Model As) doing with the
firewall? Many of the Piets at Brodhead only cover the bottom square with
steel and leave the "shelf" behind the engine uncovered. The F&G plans
clearly show the sides and bottom of the "shelf" should be covered, although
it says to use aluminum. The later plans omit this entirely. It looks to
me like to cover the bottom only defeats the whole purpose of a firewall,
and would not keep fire out of the cockpit (not that I expect this is a high
risk) Concensus?
5. In response to my last question, which did not get very many responses,
I guess the most widely used prop for a Model A is a 76 x 44, but what about
blade profiles or specific manufacturers that any of you have had good/bad
experiences with? Surely there is one someone out there who, if called on
to build a prop for a Model A Piet will know exactly what I need.
I am sure there are more questions, but I'll save a few until after we solve
these. The list has been way too quiet lately.
Thanks,
Gene
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | tim moody <tj_moody(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Piet builders in Montana? |
I am hoping to build an GN-1 or Pietenpol in the next
year after I complete my house. Does anyone know of a
builder in the Bozeman area (southwestern Montana)? I
would love to go talk to a builder about construction
and flying of a Piet or GN-1.
Looking forward to utilizing the experience and
expertise offered by this list.
thanks
Tim
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Re: Drilling holes |
yea, yea, I've heard that one (drill from each side) but I am leery of
screwing up a hole in my longeron. I used to have a jig built of a piece of
square tubing with two stand-offs welded to it, one was adjustable. I never
was really happy with it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drilling holes
>
> Gene-- I just drilled a little bit from each side of those fittings and
> continued til the two holes met.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Re: Clipped wing Piet |
If the hangar is wide enough inside, the smaller opening is no barrier.
Just need room to manage the tail and rotate it in.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Clipped wing Piet
>
> hmmmmm the Piet already has a pretty low aspect ratio...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Stefan Vorkoetter
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 12:02 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clipped wing Piet
>
>
>
> I'm considering starting building a Piet some time in the next few
years,
> and there's one modification I want to make. My hangar door opening is
28
> feet wide, so I'd like to make the wing 27'6".
>
> My extensive experience with model airplane aerodynamics leads me to
> believe it won't be a problem, but will the inspector and/or insurance
> company disagree?
>
> Thanks
> Stefan Vorkoetter
>
>
> > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
<http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Drilling holes |
Cube up some 1 1/2 in. pcs of 2x4 and drill the size holes that you will be
using in them. After you drill a starter hole deep enough (maybe 1/16 in.to
1/8 in.) to aid in finding the hole with your drill bit thru the cube, you
should not have a problem drilling a good hole. Use a drill press to drill
the cubes to make sure the holes are perpendicular to the surface you wish
to drill. These little dudes will get you into some tight drilling spots.
DickG.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drilling holes
>
> yea, yea, I've heard that one (drill from each side) but I am leery of
> screwing up a hole in my longeron. I used to have a jig built of a piece
of
> square tubing with two stand-offs welded to it, one was adjustable. I
never
> was really happy with it.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drilling holes
>
>
>
> >
> > Gene-- I just drilled a little bit from each side of those fittings and
> > continued til the two holes met.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
Weld up a jig that looks like a C-clamp, but with steel tubes to guide the
drill where the screw would go. Some people have even used a C-clamp to
start with. Weld on the tubing in one piece, then cut out the section
inside the "C" so you have two perfectly aligned segments. Clamp your
fittings on both sides of the structure, stick a bolt, drill bit, or
anything else through the sleeve on one side, into the hole in the fitting,
then drill from the other side. When you get through, your drill will push
out the pin and you'll have two perfectly aligned holes. I've made several
of these in various sizes and for both AN3 and AN4 bolts. I even made up
one with bent arms to get to the cabane struts.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo [mailto:rambog(at)erols.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drilling holes
yea, yea, I've heard that one (drill from each side) but I am leery of
screwing up a hole in my longeron. I used to have a jig built of a piece of
square tubing with two stand-offs welded to it, one was adjustable. I never
was really happy with it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drilling holes
>
> Gene-- I just drilled a little bit from each side of those fittings and
> continued til the two holes met.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Malley <jgmalley(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Re: Clipped wing Piet |
About 20 years ago Ed Lubick of Ontario built a Piet with a span of 26 feet.
Used it as a test bed for powerplant alternatives. Claimed it flew "just a
little bit faster."
Jim Malley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Vorkoetter" <stefan(at)capable.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clipped wing Piet
>
> I'm considering starting building a Piet some time in the next few years,
> and there's one modification I want to make. My hangar door opening is 28
> feet wide, so I'd like to make the wing 27'6".
>
> My extensive experience with model airplane aerodynamics leads me to
> believe it won't be a problem, but will the inspector and/or insurance
> company disagree?
>
> Thanks
> Stefan Vorkoetter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Re: Drilling holes |
I am afraid of any tool whose only purpose is to keep the drill straight on
one side. Most of the holes that I am talking about are on a curved
surface (the fuselage side) and so there is no way to drill square through
and hit the other side. Maybe I am making too much of it, I just thought
someone, surely, has built a drill jig.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drilling holes
>
> Cube up some 1 1/2 in. pcs of 2x4 and drill the size holes that you will
be
> using in them. After you drill a starter hole deep enough (maybe 1/16
in.to
> 1/8 in.) to aid in finding the hole with your drill bit thru the cube, you
> should not have a problem drilling a good hole. Use a drill press to
drill
> the cubes to make sure the holes are perpendicular to the surface you wish
> to drill. These little dudes will get you into some tight drilling spots.
> DickG.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drilling holes
>
>
> >
> > yea, yea, I've heard that one (drill from each side) but I am leery of
> > screwing up a hole in my longeron. I used to have a jig built of a
piece
> of
> > square tubing with two stand-offs welded to it, one was adjustable. I
> never
> > was really happy with it.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drilling holes
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Gene-- I just drilled a little bit from each side of those fittings
and
> > > continued til the two holes met.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Re: Clipped wing Piet |
Had it at Oshkosh several times. Came down to grease the AMC auto spindle he
used in the reduction unit. If I remember right it was a Ford straight 6.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Malley" <jgmalley(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Clipped wing Piet
>
> About 20 years ago Ed Lubick of Ontario built a Piet with a span of 26
feet.
> Used it as a test bed for powerplant alternatives. Claimed it flew "just a
> little bit faster."
> Jim Malley
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stefan Vorkoetter" <stefan(at)capable.ca>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clipped wing Piet
>
>
>
> >
> > I'm considering starting building a Piet some time in the next few
years,
> > and there's one modification I want to make. My hangar door opening is
28
> > feet wide, so I'd like to make the wing 27'6".
> >
> > My extensive experience with model airplane aerodynamics leads me to
> > believe it won't be a problem, but will the inspector and/or insurance
> > company disagree?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Stefan Vorkoetter
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: prop size final consensus? |
In a message dated 5/28/03 2:49:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
curiousspider(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< Hey all. Was there ever a final consensus on whether a
82" prop would work with the Model-A? >>
I doubt you would have enough prop tip clearance, especially if you had a
flat tire.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Lauritz Larsen" <pietlars(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Drilling holes |
Hi,
Concerning your inquiry about an A powered plane in Deland; haven't seen
the article but it probably is Bud Roger's A powered SE-5. He has had it
at S-F. He has had a booth there also DBA 'Thrust, Inc." sellin a 350
Chevy conversion.
I know Bud from way back, fabricated the ailerons for him for a Travelaire
2000. He has restored seveal planes including an OX Curtiss Robin and
scratch built several others. He is an AI .
The SE-5 has an 'A' with a starter and electronic ignition; it should be
complete by now. If you want to contact him, I can look up one of his
cards.
Hope this helps.
Lou Larsen
In Tavares FL; just finished the last coat of silver, waiting on the color
paint.
PS Its an A powered Piet with straight axle and 21" .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks(at)webtv.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Drilling holes
>
> Gene. I bought a drill guide thing at Oshkosh several years ago that
> works just fine for drilling holes straight. I've seen them at Ace
> hardware, Harbor Tool, and other places since. It consists of a base
> with 2 vertical rods that lean either direction for angle holes. On the
> rods set a cross piece with a chuck for your drill bit, then you chuck
> your drill to this chuck and go to town. The base also has ears to hold
> tubing in perfect alignment for drilling holes threw tubing. It costed
> about 25 bucks. I put glued
> plywood on the fus., under the stab. until the stab. cord was level with
> the fuselage longerons.
> I plan to put screws threw the stab. leading edge as shown on the plans.
> Again, I built up under the le. with ply so it is resting on something
> when bolted down. I guess I will leave
> the shelf bare like most people are doing. Running fabric up to the
> firewall with no boot cowl also defeats fire prevention logic.
> I haven't got to my prop yet, so I can't give an opinion there. I did
> buy an adaptor from Dick Weeden at Brodhead so I can use props with the
> Cont. bolt pattern. Does anyone know anything about the Model A guy and
> his Model A conversion in DeLand Fl, mentioned in the new Sport Av.,
> p.68? Leon S.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Subject: | Re: Drilling holes |
Gene,, For what it's worth, I used a piece of steel stock 3"x3" 3/4 thick.
I used the drill press to put in a few holes. ( 8th, 3/16, 1/4).
I would slide the piece on the bit close to the top, start my hole so the
bit wouldn't move, and then slide the piece down on the surface giving me a
90 degree straight thru. Works great just measure five and drill once.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drilling holes
>
> I am afraid of any tool whose only purpose is to keep the drill straight
on
> one side. Most of the holes that I am talking about are on a curved
> surface (the fuselage side) and so there is no way to drill square through
> and hit the other side. Maybe I am making too much of it, I just thought
> someone, surely, has built a drill jig.
>
> Gene
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drilling holes
>
>
>
> >
> > Cube up some 1 1/2 in. pcs of 2x4 and drill the size holes that you will
> be
> > using in them. After you drill a starter hole deep enough (maybe 1/16
> in.to
> > 1/8 in.) to aid in finding the hole with your drill bit thru the cube,
you
> > should not have a problem drilling a good hole. Use a drill press to
> drill
> > the cubes to make sure the holes are perpendicular to the surface you
wish
> > to drill. These little dudes will get you into some tight drilling
spots.
> > DickG.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drilling holes
> >
> >
> > >
> > > yea, yea, I've heard that one (drill from each side) but I am leery of
> > > screwing up a hole in my longeron. I used to have a jig built of a
> piece
> > of
> > > square tubing with two stand-offs welded to it, one was adjustable. I
> > never
> > > was really happy with it.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drilling holes
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Gene-- I just drilled a little bit from each side of those fittings
> and
> > > > continued til the two holes met.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
Subject: | Re: Drilling holes |
Gene,
I built one of these and it works great. You can go to
http://www.eaa1067.org/images/jig.jpg and see a picture of one I made. You
put the drill in from the right and place the bolt in the hole in the metal
fitting on the left. When making the jig you drill out the left hole with
the drill coming from the right. That makes the drill come
out exactly where the hole is on the left.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Drilling holes
>
> Weld up a jig that looks like a C-clamp, but with steel tubes to guide the
> drill where the screw would go. Some people have even used a C-clamp to
> start with. Weld on the tubing in one piece, then cut out the section
> inside the "C" so you have two perfectly aligned segments. Clamp your
> fittings on both sides of the structure, stick a bolt, drill bit, or
> anything else through the sleeve on one side, into the hole in the
fitting,
> then drill from the other side. When you get through, your drill will
push
> out the pin and you'll have two perfectly aligned holes. I've made
several
> of these in various sizes and for both AN3 and AN4 bolts. I even made up
> one with bent arms to get to the cabane struts.
>
> Gene
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene Rambo [mailto:rambog(at)erols.com]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drilling holes
>
>
> yea, yea, I've heard that one (drill from each side) but I am leery of
> screwing up a hole in my longeron. I used to have a jig built of a piece
of
> square tubing with two stand-offs welded to it, one was adjustable. I
never
> was really happy with it.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drilling holes
>
>
>
> >
> > Gene-- I just drilled a little bit from each side of those fittings and
> > continued til the two holes met.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Subject: | Re: Piet builders in Montana? |
Hi Tim
We are in St. Paul, Mn. but fly into Bozeman on a regular basis. We spend
lots of time in Gardner.
I always like to talk Piet's. I get lots of spare time while my wife hits
the antique shops around Four Corners.
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: "tim moody" <tj_moody(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders in Montana?
>
> I am hoping to build an GN-1 or Pietenpol in the next
> year after I complete my house. Does anyone know of a
> builder in the Bozeman area (southwestern Montana)? I
> would love to go talk to a builder about construction
> and flying of a Piet or GN-1.
>
> Looking forward to utilizing the experience and
> expertise offered by this list.
>
> thanks
>
> Tim
>
> __________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Subject: | Re: drilling holes in fuselage |
Hi Gene. Check out my Pietenpol picture
file at www.mykitplane.com .
There's a drill jig there just for this very thing.
Once you see it you can see how to make it
using other materials you might have lying
around as it has been made by others in many
different styles.
Go to "picture gallery"
then scroll to Clif Dawson
then open the Piet file.
Also I've added a file for my corvair engine.
I've been having my fun. out of two engines
there was one head with dropped valve seats
( bad, very bad! ) two with extensive pitting
on the "squish" area and one good one. No
more heads were to be had around here ( Corsa)
so I took matters in hand, as it were, and
proceeded to " fix" the corroded heads. They
were dead anyway so I had nothing to lose.
All I can say is, thanks, DJ, routers are a
wonderful thing.
Erik Miesterman, another local corvair engine
experimenter, found a couple of spare heads on
hearing my tale of woe and sold them to me, so
I'm fine now. I'll test the heads I reworked but
use these good ones in the finished product. The
reworked ones will be saved as spares.
I have another couple of Piet pics at
www.myartclub.com
Go to "find artist" then to the "D's" then
my name, Clif Dawson.
Clif
>
> OK guys, I am trying to drill all of the holes in the fuselage and have
some
> questions.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Clipped wing Piet |
I don't think you'll need rails unless you have soft
ground in front of the hanger. 4 or 5" dolly wheels
should do it, two castoring and two non castoring.
Build in little ramps on both sides and you should
be able to run the Piet right up on your dolly if it's
not too high.
If you do shorten the wing and some undesireable
flight characteristic shows up then what? Taking it
away is easier than putting it back.
On the other hand, wing clipping is a time honoured
practice. Not always with airplanes.
Clif
> >
> > >
> The other think I had thought of was to install rails and a dolly so I can
> slide the plane into the hangar sideways.
>
> Stefan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Clipped wing Piet |
Depends on were you live. Here in Canada
your plane is inspected by another experienced
airplane builder. Not so easy to fool. On the
other hand, the right one could be sympathetic
to the cause.
Clif
>
> Gene,
>
> That was GREAT!
>
> Sure, I never seen any Inspector taking messurments of anything, in
> fact here, we are so few homebuilders that we can "guide" them to what
> WE want them to SEE.
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
> Still grinin :-)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
Long wing: Bill Rewey added 1 foot to the center section and made the
outer wing panels as to plans. This makes his span 29 feet. The plane
flys beautifully and climbs great with 2-200 plus pound people aboard.
Short wing: In the U.S. the inspector should not be concerned with
whether you followed the plans as to wing length or other modifications.
You are building a one-off experimental.
Dick H.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | tim moody <tj_moody(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Piet builders in Montana? |
Dick
Thanks for the reply. I have been watching the list
for about 6 months and have enjoyed reading the posts.
I would like to start building next winter. I am
wondering which I should build, the Piet or the GN-1.
What did you build? What did you use for power? Is
your project complete? Well, I had better get to it.
Have a good day. Thanks again.
Tim Moody
--- Richard Navratril wrote:
> Navratril"
>
> Hi Tim
> We are in St. Paul, Mn. but fly into Bozeman on a
> regular basis. We spend
> lots of time in Gardner.
> I always like to talk Piet's. I get lots of spare
> time while my wife hits
> the antique shops around Four Corners.
> Dick Navratil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tim moody" <tj_moody(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders in Montana?
>
>
>
> >
> > I am hoping to build an GN-1 or Pietenpol in the
> next
> > year after I complete my house. Does anyone know
> of a
> > builder in the Bozeman area (southwestern
> Montana)? I
> > would love to go talk to a builder about
> construction
> > and flying of a Piet or GN-1.
> >
> > Looking forward to utilizing the experience and
> > expertise offered by this list.
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > __________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
>
Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
John writes-
>has anyone done anything with a longer-winged Piet?
>Slats perhaps? I'm curious about anything that might
>make it more STOL-ish in a respectful (and safe) way.
Whoa! A Piet with vortex generators! ;o) I think one of the ways to make
it STOL-ish is to try the approach used by John Dilatush with his turbo'd,
redriven Subaru. I think his plane pops off the ground pretty handily just
due to the added muscle. My thought is that one could certainly apply a
more efficient low-speed airfoil to the airplane, but this gets into the
category of 'sacrilege' among Pieters.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Anyone know where THESE Air Camper plans came from???? |
or can be found????
The following link is from the EAA Airventrue Museum site:
http://www.airventuremuseum.org/collection/aircraft/Pietenpol%20Air%20Camper
%20Builders%20Notes.asp#TopOfPage
it shows plan and elevation views (well, parts of views) that I've never
seen before and I would LOVE to get a copy of those plans.....
Anyone have any idea how to do that or where the plans came from?
Thanks,
JM in Plano, TX......
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Re: Anyone know where THESE Air Camper plans came from???? |
That looks like those Paul Matt drawings (I think that's the right name)
from Historic Aviation Albums in California. I have some of them around
here somewhere (not the Piet, others). I have to find them, I forget who is
selling them now, I think someone in Arizona.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone know where THESE Air Camper plans came
from????
>
> or can be found????
>
> The following link is from the EAA Airventrue Museum site:
>
>
http://www.airventuremuseum.org/collection/aircraft/Pietenpol%20Air%20Camper
> %20Builders%20Notes.asp#TopOfPage
>
> it shows plan and elevation views (well, parts of views) that I've never
> seen before and I would LOVE to get a copy of those plans.....
>
> Anyone have any idea how to do that or where the plans came from?
>
> Thanks,
> JM in Plano, TX......
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
Subject: | Re: Clipped wing Piet |
Stefen,
My Piet will fit nicely into my 30' wide Cover-it hanger, even though the
actual door opening is less than 28'..
I worried alot about it till I saw the guy next to me with the same 30' wide
put his old Cessna 120 with the 33 foot wingspan, inside in 2 minutes.
I use the same method of "nose first,K turn" method .
nose first in off center to the right, at the threshold, drive the nose to
the right pivoting on the right wheel. Now the plane is crosswise to the
opening with centerline about 4 feet inside. Now walk the tail to the
opposite rear corner. You're done. Just did it about 2 hours ago when I
put the piet away.
walt
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Vorkoetter" <stefan(at)capable.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clipped wing Piet
>
> I'm considering starting building a Piet some time in the next few years,
> and there's one modification I want to make. My hangar door opening is 28
> feet wide, so I'd like to make the wing 27'6".
>
> My extensive experience with model airplane aerodynamics leads me to
> believe it won't be a problem, but will the inspector and/or insurance
> company disagree?
>
> Thanks
> Stefan Vorkoetter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | Carl Loar----First Flight ?? |
Hello Carl-- I know that you were chomping at the bit for this rough winter
to pass from us in the nawth (as Corky sez)
and just was wondering if you have had a chance to finish up the details
and get some taxi tests done. Not even sure
if you've had your inspection actually. Hope you get some air under your
wings this summer !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
I am determined to get this list talking, and building, and flying . . . and
whatever
To add to yesterday's questions:
6. Again, to those of you who are building Model A powered, the drawings
show the ash engine bearers angled down. The drawing suggests that the ash
bearers are notched at the aft end so that they sit flat on the front
fuselage cross piece. Wouldn't it be better, rather than reduce the
strength of the ash engine bearer by notching it, to simply put a hardwood
wedge under the aft end? What are others doing??
More to come . . .
Gene
FINALLY starting to make progress
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Subject: | Re: Carl Loar----First Flight ?? |
Mikey,,, Going out this weekend to put the final touches on. Plan on calling
the inspector within next couple of weeks. I had to fine tune my carb and
heat box. Should be running up and down the grass by next week. I'll shout
for shure when I do.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Carl Loar----First Flight ??
>
> Hello Carl-- I know that you were chomping at the bit for this rough
winter
> to pass from us in the nawth (as Corky sez)
> and just was wondering if you have had a chance to finish up the details
> and get some taxi tests done. Not even sure
> if you've had your inspection actually. Hope you get some air under your
> wings this summer !
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | Re: Carl Loar----First Flight ?? |
Carl-- Never too soon to give the inspector a head's up. It took a
looooong while for mine to show up. Maybe you are having a DAR. Those
guys usually show up much quicker since they fetch $$$ for the sign
off. My inspector wanted the cowling off and wanted to see the engine
ran-up. I knew this ahead so had everything unbuttoned. I also had all
the inspection holes open. One thing I did not do was remove the wing root
fairings. (us three-piece builders) He didn't ask me to remove
them. Glad to hear you are making hay !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
Subject: | Re: Anyone know where THESE Air Camper plans came from???? |
Jim,
They look like the drawings that appeared in the mid-60's issues of "Air
Progress" -- they may have been with the Pete Bowers article on the Piet
(the one with the picture of Pete topping up the radiator using a coffee
pot)
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone know where THESE Air Camper plans came
from????
>
> or can be found????
>
> The following link is from the EAA Airventrue Museum site:
>
>
http://www.airventuremuseum.org/collection/aircraft/Pietenpol%20Air%20Camper
> %20Builders%20Notes.asp#TopOfPage
>
> it shows plan and elevation views (well, parts of views) that I've never
> seen before and I would LOVE to get a copy of those plans.....
>
> Anyone have any idea how to do that or where the plans came from?
>
> Thanks,
> JM in Plano, TX......
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Anyone know where THESE Air Camper plans came |
from????
I thought so to. I've got those ones sitting in front of
me now and it ain't them.
There also in the Aug 1969 American Aircraft
Modeler.
Too bad as I could have mailed copies to anyone.
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone know where THESE Air Camper plans came
from????
>
> Jim,
>
> They look like the drawings that appeared in the mid-60's issues of "Air
> Progress" -- they may have been with the Pete Bowers article on the Piet
> (the one with the picture of Pete topping up the radiator using a coffee
> pot)
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
Sorry, I never hread of a straight six. His first converted engine was
a Ford Fiesta, then he build one with the Ford Escort, improved with a
built spindle for the prop reduction. I was in touch with him for
several years, I will try to get in touch with him... Will be
interesting what new projects he has.
His wife is (Was?) very active in Canadian Ultralight regulations.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Cy Galley wrote:
>
> Had it at Oshkosh several times. Came down to grease the AMC auto
> spindle he
> used in the reduction unit. If I remember right it was a Ford
> straight 6.
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>
> Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Malley" <jgmalley(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Clipped wing Piet
>
>
>
> >
> > About 20 years ago Ed Lubick of Ontario built a Piet with a span of
> 26
> feet.
> > Used it as a test bed for powerplant alternatives. Claimed it flew
> "just a
> > little bit faster."
> > Jim Malley
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stefan Vorkoetter" <stefan(at)capable.ca>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clipped wing Piet
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I'm considering starting building a Piet some time in the next
> few
> years,
> > > and there's one modification I want to make. My hangar door
> opening is
> 28
> > > feet wide, so I'd like to make the wing 27'6".
> > >
> > > My extensive experience with model airplane aerodynamics leads me
> to
> > > believe it won't be a problem, but will the inspector and/or
> insurance
> > > company disagree?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Stefan Vorkoetter
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cat_designs(at)juno.com |
What size tubing have people used on the bell crank for the elevators.
Round ? Streamlined like the plans show? or made up from two pieces like the control
horns?? Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. I bought some streamlined
tubing from Aircraft Spruce and it sure feels too heavy.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
Dale and I used the same tubing as the cabanes.
Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis
>>> cat_designs(at)juno.com 05/30/03 02:25PM >>>
What size tubing have people used on the bell crank for the elevators.
Round ? Streamlined like the plans show? or made up from two pieces
like the control horns?? Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.
I bought some streamlined tubing from Aircraft Spruce and it sure feels
too heavy.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gdascomb(at)aol.com |
Guys: I just bought some of this tubing (4130 Streamline,1.349"..049 wall) at
Wicks for $9.60/ft. Aircraft Spruce is $17.10/ft. Ouch!.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cat_designs(at)juno.com |
Greg Cardinal wrote:
Dale and I used the same tubing as the cabanes.
Do you happen to remember what size you use for the cabane struts. Did you flatten
the ends on it for use on the bell crank. The plans show you should flatten
the ends. The streamlined tubing I have is 1.685 x 0.714 0.049 thickness.
Is this to big? or does the geometry of the control cables (two into one attachment
point)require this much strength?
Speaking of flattened ends, when you pinch the ends for the rudder bar and the
bell crank do you need to weld the ends closed after you flatten them?
Chris
Sacramento, CA
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Bell crank tubing |
I used that same size streamline tubing for my bellcrank, flattened the ends
by heating the tubing with a torch and flattening in a vice when it was red
hot. It helps to take a couple of pieces of angle iron, cut it at the angle in
about 2 inches and bend the free piece into a nice curve. Put two of these
between the jaws of your vice and it'll keep the sharp edge of the vice jaws from
cutting into your tubing and gives a nice easy bend from the round tubing to
the flattened section. I think Tony Bengilis has a description and pic of this
in one of his books on aircraft construction. And I did edge weld the ends.
One advantage of the streamline tubing is that, though it looks pretty
massive, you are going to drill a big hole in it for the axle shaft, so you need
some width there to carry the loads around the shaft, and to give something to
weld the shaft to.
Regarding the attachment of the two elevator cables to each end of the
bellcrank, standard shackles don't have enough room for two cable eye, with
thimbles, at least I didn't using 1/8" cable. I ended up taking two pieces of .090
steel, about 3/4" by 1 1/2", putting about a 20 degree bend in them and putting
one on each side of the bellcrank, with the bends pointing outboard in each
case with a pivot pin through, and attaching my cables to those.
If you have trouble visualizing this, I can email you a pic of my set up.
Oh, and while we're on the subject, think about making up some pulley
brackets and using pulleys where the elevator cables and the rudder cables make
that
bend at the rear seat back. I wasn't satisfied to just drill holes in the
bottom seat support for that, but to each his own.
Matt Paxton
You wrote:
Do you happen to remember what size you use for the cabane struts. Did you
flatten
the ends on it for use on the bell crank. The plans show you should flatten
the ends. The streamlined tubing I have is 1.685 x 0.714 0.049 thickness.
Is this to big? or does the geometry of the control cables (two into one
attachment
point)require this much strength?
Speaking of flattened ends, when you pinch the ends for the rudder bar and the
bell crank do you need to weld the ends closed after you flatten them?
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
Subject: | Re: Bell crank tubing |
Matt,
Just an added 2 cents,,,
You can use just one cable eye in the center of a long cable. The cable
splits from the single eye and one goes left and one goes right.
I know a guy who flew a Piet that someone else built, and he told me that a
friend and friends wife was flying it and the weld at the bellcrank/shaft
broke with a very unhappy ending. He kept pushing me to put a "safety" tube
inside the normal one just in case.
But that's another story.
walt
NX140DL
22 1/2 down, and 2 1/2 to go
----- Original Message -----
From: <Woodflier(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bell crank tubing
>
>
> Regarding the attachment of the two elevator cables to each end of the
> bellcrank, standard shackles don't have enough room for two cable eye,
with
> thimbles, at least I didn't using 1/8" cable. I ended up taking two pieces
of .090
> steel, about 3/4" by 1 1/2", putting about a 20 degree bend in them and
putting
> one on each side of the bellcrank, with the bends pointing outboard in
each
> case with a pivot pin through, and attaching my cables to those.
>
> If you have trouble visualizing this, I can email you a pic of my set up.
>
> Oh, and while we're on the subject, think about making up some pulley
> brackets and using pulleys where the elevator cables and the rudder cables
make that
> bend at the rear seat back. I wasn't satisfied to just drill holes in the
> bottom seat support for that, but to each his own.
>
> Matt Paxton
>
>
> You wrote:
>
> Do you happen to remember what size you use for the cabane struts. Did
you
> flatten
> the ends on it for use on the bell crank. The plans show you should
flatten
> the ends. The streamlined tubing I have is 1.685 x 0.714 0.049 thickness.
> Is this to big? or does the geometry of the control cables (two into one
> attachment
> point)require this much strength?
>
>
> Speaking of flattened ends, when you pinch the ends for the rudder bar and
the
> bell crank do you need to weld the ends closed after you flatten them?
>
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
Our little Piet 41CC has 33:45 successful flying time. I have about 5 dual
with my test-instructor pilot Mr Johnson. Yesterday he had me shooting landings
on a sod crop duster strip in the cotton fields down south. 96 La degrees, mid
afternoon, lots of fresh cultivated acres below. CC was bouncing like Jr.'s
rubber ball. Density altitude, 200 ft above sea level. When I flared, usually
too high, CC seemed to be unaffected and kept on earthward.
QUESTION?
Given the 2 degree + incidence at the root in level flight according to the
plans, what should be the washout reading at the outer rib? I'm feeling that
the entire wing is stalling at the same time.
Need some thoughts and chatter on this subject
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
Subject: | Re: Piet rigging |
Corky,
My spin on washout ( and it's only my own addition of all I've heard and not
a bit of documented truth) is that if the washout is correct , the root of
the wing will stall first, and give you the indication of a stall, slightly
before the tips stall. This gives you time to use the aerlerons, which are
just barely still in smooth air.
sound like this has nothing to do with whats going on with your situation.
Since I've gotten into wheel landings, even though they seem scarier. the
vision is better, and more controllable. BUT I went to do a wheel landing
without power, and bounced four times. It was very scarey. (My log book
reflects four landings) I found that if you keep your hand on that
throttle thing, and just before the flare, (on both wheel and three point)
you goose the throttle to maybe 1000 rpm, It stops the drop and flies
forward momentarily , just to set down. Seems to work on the Piet
beautifully.
Thats a tip given to me by an instructor in the next airport who taught
Harrison Ford, for his tailwheel endosement. Great guy who will take time
to stop and talk to you.
Corky , keep us posted!
walt evans
NX140DL
in rainy NJ
"that brown on my face isn't tan,,,it's rust"
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
>
> Pieters,
> Our little Piet 41CC has 33:45 successful flying time. I have about 5 dual
> with my test-instructor pilot Mr Johnson. Yesterday he had me shooting
landings
> on a sod crop duster strip in the cotton fields down south. 96 La degrees,
mid
> afternoon, lots of fresh cultivated acres below. CC was bouncing like
Jr.'s
> rubber ball. Density altitude, 200 ft above sea level. When I flared,
usually
> too high, CC seemed to be unaffected and kept on earthward.
> QUESTION?
> Given the 2 degree + incidence at the root in level flight according to
the
> plans, what should be the washout reading at the outer rib? I'm feeling
that
> the entire wing is stalling at the same time.
> Need some thoughts and chatter on this subject
> Corky in La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Re: Piet rigging |
Repeat after me! NEVER EVER use ailerons at stall. Pick up the low wing with
the rudder unless you really want to spin!
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
>
> Corky,
> My spin on washout ( and it's only my own addition of all I've heard and
not
> a bit of documented truth) is that if the washout is correct , the root
of
> the wing will stall first, and give you the indication of a stall,
slightly
> before the tips stall. This gives you time to use the aerlerons, which
are
> just barely still in smooth air.
> sound like this has nothing to do with whats going on with your situation.
> Since I've gotten into wheel landings, even though they seem scarier. the
> vision is better, and more controllable. BUT I went to do a wheel landing
> without power, and bounced four times. It was very scarey. (My log
book
> reflects four landings) I found that if you keep your hand on that
> throttle thing, and just before the flare, (on both wheel and three
point)
> you goose the throttle to maybe 1000 rpm, It stops the drop and flies
> forward momentarily , just to set down. Seems to work on the Piet
> beautifully.
> Thats a tip given to me by an instructor in the next airport who taught
> Harrison Ford, for his tailwheel endosement. Great guy who will take time
> to stop and talk to you.
> Corky , keep us posted!
> walt evans
> NX140DL
> in rainy NJ
> "that brown on my face isn't tan,,,it's rust"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
>
>
> >
> > Pieters,
> > Our little Piet 41CC has 33:45 successful flying time. I have about 5
dual
> > with my test-instructor pilot Mr Johnson. Yesterday he had me shooting
> landings
> > on a sod crop duster strip in the cotton fields down south. 96 La
degrees,
> mid
> > afternoon, lots of fresh cultivated acres below. CC was bouncing like
> Jr.'s
> > rubber ball. Density altitude, 200 ft above sea level. When I flared,
> usually
> > too high, CC seemed to be unaffected and kept on earthward.
> > QUESTION?
> > Given the 2 degree + incidence at the root in level flight according to
> the
> > plans, what should be the washout reading at the outer rib? I'm feeling
> that
> > the entire wing is stalling at the same time.
> > Need some thoughts and chatter on this subject
> > Corky in La
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Re: Piet rigging |
The purpose of washout is not to give YOU advance notice of a stall, but to
make the wingtips, i.e., the aileron area stall a little bit later to give
you some additional aileron authority. You may not, and probably won't,
notice the difference. I doubt that you would be able to tell that "the
entire wing is stalling at the same time."
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
>
> Pieters,
> Our little Piet 41CC has 33:45 successful flying time. I have about 5 dual
> with my test-instructor pilot Mr Johnson. Yesterday he had me shooting
landings
> on a sod crop duster strip in the cotton fields down south. 96 La degrees,
mid
> afternoon, lots of fresh cultivated acres below. CC was bouncing like
Jr.'s
> rubber ball. Density altitude, 200 ft above sea level. When I flared,
usually
> too high, CC seemed to be unaffected and kept on earthward.
> QUESTION?
> Given the 2 degree + incidence at the root in level flight according to
the
> plans, what should be the washout reading at the outer rib? I'm feeling
that
> the entire wing is stalling at the same time.
> Need some thoughts and chatter on this subject
> Corky in La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
To add to my list of questions (not that my previous ones have generated
many responses):
7. Are any of you offsetting the vertical fin to the left, or are you
aligning it with the fuselage?????
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Gene,
I drilled two sets of holes so that if I find I need more offset (the first
set is on the centerline) I can do it easily. I'm expecting to not need the
second set of holes, though. I think most Piets flying have the fin
centered on the centerline.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question #7
To add to my list of questions (not that my previous ones have generated
many responses):
7. Are any of you offsetting the vertical fin to the left, or are you
aligning it with the fuselage?????
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Piet rigging |
I think the 1" difference in the front and rear cabane struts, equates to 3
degrees positive incidence. No need for washout on a Hershey bar wing. It
inherently stalls inboard first, then the stall progresses outboard, providing
you keep the ball in the middle. The drawback to washout, is it adds drag.
Cy is correct : NEVER EVER use ailerons at stall. Pick up the low wing
with
the rudder unless you really want to spin! Lets look at this-- Lets say you
are very close to the 'Critical Angle of Attack' (AOA where a stall begins),
at low airspeed (any airspeed actually). If the right wing is low, and you
give left aileron, lowering the right aileron past the 'Critical Angle of
Attack,' raising the left aileron and lowering the left wing tip's angle of attack.
Result : the right wing tip will stall, and it will spin to the right.
A little blip of power might be needed if your rate of decent is high,
and your airspeed is low, to help level off the rate of decent just before
touchdown. The propwash also helps the rudder to be more responsive.
Corky, my hunch is that you are doing your round - out, and flair all in
the same motion of the stick. This will bring the entire wing past the
'Critical Angle of Attack' all at once, and stall the entire wing.
It's been awhile since I've flown my Piet, but my preference for landing
was to cross the fence at about 50 mph, roundout at about 5 to 8 agl, then
ride the ground effect for a couple of seconds very close to the ground, then
break lift with very slight additional aft stick. My last 3 landings (last fall)
the tail touched just a split second before the mains, and it stayed on the
ground...no bounce, short roll out. This method, however, probably would not
work well with a cross wind. Wheel landing is preferred for cross wind
landings.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
planning on first engine run of the A65 this week. Do 3 or 4 ground runs,
with cool down period, and inspections. If everything works out first flight
with new engine next Sunday evening, weather permitting.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 6/1/03 9:03:31 PM Central Daylight Time, rambog(at)erols.com
writes:
<< 7. Are any of you offsetting the vertical fin to the left, or are you
aligning it with the fuselage????? >>
Gene,
My fin is aligned with the fuselage, but I ofset the A65 engine mount about
1/16" to the right. Low power aircraft usually don't need the fin offset to
account for torque.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Subject: | DeLand Fl. Model A |
Hello Lou: Thanks for the work on bud Rogers. The article just called it
Travel Air Aviation, and gave no name. They did include a phone no., so
I will give him a call. Full pressure oiling, insert bearings, and
updated carburation may just be the ticket to a reliable Model A.
Thanks. Leon Stefan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Subject: | Off set vert. fin |
Gene: I was going to off set the fin, but decided to set it straight
with the fus. center line. I beefed up a small area of the rudder
trailing edge and drilled it so I can add a trim tab later if I need to.
I also did the same to the elevator trailing edges after the long
discussion about trim problems that ran on the list some months ago.
Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Re: Piet rigging |
You guys shouldn't overdo the admonition about using the ailerons in a
stall. The discussion is about the pre-stall area, and if you were not
supposed to use the ailerons then, they wouldn't have designed the airplane
so that the inboard end stalls first in order to give you aileron authority
up until the stall. What you NEVER NEVER want to do is be screwing around
with massive rudder imputs at the point of the stall or you WILL spin.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
>
> I think the 1" difference in the front and rear cabane struts, equates to
3
> degrees positive incidence. No need for washout on a Hershey bar wing.
It
> inherently stalls inboard first, then the stall progresses outboard,
providing
> you keep the ball in the middle. The drawback to washout, is it adds
drag.
> Cy is correct : NEVER EVER use ailerons at stall. Pick up the low wing
> with
> the rudder unless you really want to spin! Lets look at this-- Lets say
you
> are very close to the 'Critical Angle of Attack' (AOA where a stall
begins),
> at low airspeed (any airspeed actually). If the right wing is low, and
you
> give left aileron, lowering the right aileron past the 'Critical Angle of
> Attack,' raising the left aileron and lowering the left wing tip's angle
of attack.
> Result : the right wing tip will stall, and it will spin to the right.
> A little blip of power might be needed if your rate of decent is high,
> and your airspeed is low, to help level off the rate of decent just before
> touchdown. The propwash also helps the rudder to be more responsive.
> Corky, my hunch is that you are doing your round - out, and flair all
in
> the same motion of the stick. This will bring the entire wing past the
> 'Critical Angle of Attack' all at once, and stall the entire wing.
> It's been awhile since I've flown my Piet, but my preference for
landing
> was to cross the fence at about 50 mph, roundout at about 5 to 8 agl, then
> ride the ground effect for a couple of seconds very close to the ground,
then
> break lift with very slight additional aft stick. My last 3 landings
(last fall)
> the tail touched just a split second before the mains, and it stayed on
the
> ground...no bounce, short roll out. This method, however, probably would
not
> work well with a cross wind. Wheel landing is preferred for cross wind
> landings.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
> planning on first engine run of the A65 this week. Do 3 or 4 ground runs,
> with cool down period, and inspections. If everything works out first
flight
> with new engine next Sunday evening, weather permitting.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
I don't know about low powered airplanes not needing the offset, have you
ever seen a Aeronca Champ fuselage? The fin is offset nearly an inch. A
Cub is offset, too. I don't know for sure about the common belief that the
offset is for torque, I believe that it is to correct for adverse yaw as a
result of P factor. I know the Cessna Airmaster I used to have had the
non-adjustable fin set in the middle, and the thing would never fly hands
off without rolling off to one side until I discovered that they originally
came with an externally adjustable rudder trim tab (which the previous
restorer had omitted for appearance sake). Once I installed the tab, it
flew perfectly.
I do NOT want to install a tab on the Piet if I can help it. C'mon you guys
with flying airplanes, especially Model A powered, offset fin or not?????
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question #7
>
> In a message dated 6/1/03 9:03:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
rambog(at)erols.com
> writes:
>
> << 7. Are any of you offsetting the vertical fin to the left, or are you
> aligning it with the fuselage????? >>
>
> Gene,
> My fin is aligned with the fuselage, but I ofset the A65 engine mount
about
> 1/16" to the right. Low power aircraft usually don't need the fin offset
to
> account for torque.
>
> Chuck
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
For the cabanes we used 1.349 x .571 .049 wall thickness. Bellcrank
ends were flattened. End holes for the cable attachments were drilled so
they would align through the bellcrank pivot centerline. This maintains
the cable geometry as a parallelogram to reduce uneven cable tension
throughout the range of motion.
We did not use cables from the control stick to the bellcrank. A
push-pull tube from the stick passes under the seat and connects to the
bellcrank. Stick / elevator movement ratios were maintained to the
original design.
Neither the bellcrank nor the rudder bar ends were welded shut.
Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis
>>> cat_designs(at)juno.com 05/30/03 03:56PM >>>
Greg Cardinal wrote:
Dale and I used the same tubing as the cabanes.
Do you happen to remember what size you use for the cabane struts. Did
you flatten the ends on it for use on the bell crank. The plans show
you should flatten the ends. The streamlined tubing I have is 1.685 x
0.714 0.049 thickness. Is this to big? or does the geometry of the
control cables (two into one attachment point)require this much
strength?
Speaking of flattened ends, when you pinch the ends for the rudder bar
and the bell crank do you need to weld the ends closed after you flatten
them?
Chris
Sacramento, CA
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/01/03 |
Gene, I offset the leading edge of my fin 1/4" to the left. If I don't like
the way it flies, I'll make up two new forward fin brackets and align it
straight.
Matt Paxton
In a message dated 6/2/03 2:58:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question #7
To add to my list of questions (not that my previous ones have generated
many responses):
7. Are any of you offsetting the vertical fin to the left, or are you
aligning it with the fuselage?????
Gene >>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/01/03 |
Group,
How many of the flying Pietenpol's have placed a tuft of yarn about 12-18"
long in the center of the fuselage forward of the wind screen to see if they
are flying straight or in a crab? The answer to this question will do a lot
for us in answering the question of offsetting the vertical fin or adding a
rudder trim tab. I did this test when test flying the RV-6 and offsetting
the vertical stab caused a lot of unnecessary work. Ended up resetting it
straight and adding a trim tab on the rudder. On my Pietenpol I will set
the stab straight unless information gathered says otherwise. Looking
forward to the answer to the first question..
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: <Woodflier(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/01/03
>
> Gene, I offset the leading edge of my fin 1/4" to the left. If I don't
like
> the way it flies, I'll make up two new forward fin brackets and align it
> straight.
>
> Matt Paxton
>
>
> In a message dated 6/2/03 2:58:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
>
> From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question #7
>
>
> To add to my list of questions (not that my previous ones have generated
> many responses):
>
> 7. Are any of you offsetting the vertical fin to the left, or are you
> aligning it with the fuselage?????
>
> Gene >>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/01/03 |
We set our rudder straight and after a few hours flight added a 3x3 .020
alum tab on the upper part of the rudder. Solved the problem completely, matter
of fact have never had to bend adjust since.Didn't even slow the Piet down,
still speeds along at 69 cruise, 72 in a dive and stalls at 40.
YKW
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - |
06/01/03
Alex,
Wouldn't that give an invalid reading, since it is in the slipstream? Perhaps
some yarn outside of the slipstream on the underside of the wing and some reference
lines visible from the driver's seat would be more accurate. If the yarn
extended beyond the trailing edge and you had a piece of masking tape marked
with a sharpie you should (might?) be able to see if from the cockpit.. Just
a thought from a guy who has never flown a Pietenpol (yet, at least), but only
sat in one in a hanger...
John
John Ford
jford(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> alexms1(at)bellsouth.net Monday, June 02, 2003 9:41:29 AM >>>
Group,
How many of the flying Pietenpol's have placed a tuft of yarn about 12-18"
long in the center of the fuselage forward of the wind screen to see if they
are flying straight or in a crab? The answer to this question will do a lot
for us in answering the question of offsetting the vertical fin or adding a
rudder trim tab. I did this test when test flying the RV-6 and offsetting
the vertical stab caused a lot of unnecessary work. Ended up resetting it
straight and adding a trim tab on the rudder. On my Pietenpol I will set
the stab straight unless information gathered says otherwise. Looking
forward to the answer to the first question..
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: <Woodflier(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/01/03
>
> Gene, I offset the leading edge of my fin 1/4" to the left. If I don't
like
> the way it flies, I'll make up two new forward fin brackets and align it
> straight.
>
> Matt Paxton
>
>
> In a message dated 6/2/03 2:58:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
>
> From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question #7
>
>
> To add to my list of questions (not that my previous ones have generated
> many responses):
>
> 7. Are any of you offsetting the vertical fin to the left, or are you
> aligning it with the fuselage?????
>
> Gene >>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net> |
Subject: | Re: Piet rigging |
I think all Piets tend to do this. I fly a GN-1 and it does the same thing.
Add a little power when you start to flare and you will grease it on. Or
come in at 80mph. jas
>
>Pieters,
>Our little Piet 41CC has 33:45 successful flying time. I have about 5 dual
>with my test-instructor pilot Mr Johnson. Yesterday he had me shooting
landings
>on a sod crop duster strip in the cotton fields down south. 96 La degrees,
mid
>afternoon, lots of fresh cultivated acres below. CC was bouncing like Jr.'s
>rubber ball. Density altitude, 200 ft above sea level. When I flared,
usually
>too high, CC seemed to be unaffected and kept on earthward.
>QUESTION?
>Given the 2 degree + incidence at the root in level flight according to the
>plans, what should be the washout reading at the outer rib? I'm feeling that
>the entire wing is stalling at the same time.
>Need some thoughts and chatter on this subject
>Corky in La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/01/03 |
Group,
If it is proven a trim tab is needed on the Piet, it is important that the
trim tab be placed on the UPPER part of the rudder. If placed on the lower
part of the rudder the fuselage blocks out the effectiveness of the tab to a
degree. This is a lesson I learned the hard way.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/01/03
>
> We set our rudder straight and after a few hours flight added a 3x3 .020
> alum tab on the upper part of the rudder. Solved the problem completely,
matter
> of fact have never had to bend adjust since.Didn't even slow the Piet
down,
> still speeds along at 69 cruise, 72 in a dive and stalls at 40.
> YKW
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Piet rigging |
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Piet rigging |
80 mph?????????????? Maybe in my model T but never in a Piet
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - |
06/01/03
>We set our rudder straight and after a few hours flight added a 3x3 .020
>alum tab on the upper part of the rudder. Solved the problem completely
Corky-- Had the exact same scenario with my Piet. I did put in something
like 3/8" washout as measured at the second last rib towards the tip as per
Cubs & Champs. Figured they knew what they were doing and the restoration
gurus at my airport (IA's, not just jaw flappers) said to put that washout
in as well. Went thru the in-flight rigging check that Tony Bingelis
describes so nicely and had to tweak one of my rear lift struts and add the
alum trim to the rudder.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | A-65 engine offset |
Forgot to say that I put some big fender washers on the left sides of my
motor mount to make the engine point
"right" a bit. About three or 4 1/16" thick washers I think. Can't help
the Model A builders with any input here.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Stefan Vorkoetter <stefan(at)capable.ca> |
Subject: | Piet speed (was Piet rigging) |
Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
> 80 mph?????????????? Maybe in my model T but never in a Piet
Which brings me to a question I've had. How fast can a Piet cruise (Vno)?
I've heard everything from 65 mph to 95 mph. Also, what's the typical (Vne)?
Stefan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "rambog(at)erols.com" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/01/03 |
The yarn thing is probably not necessary as most of the builders I have
heard on here are putting turn and banks, or at least inclinometers in
their aircraft. I don't know whether the fin offset (or tab) would
necessarily affect the slip/skid, but it will affect wing heaviness.
I want to avoid using a trim tab at all costs. It sounds like most
responses on here have resorted to tabs, so some offset must be necessary.
I may make the holes in the horiz stab far enough apart that I could change
the lower fittings and move the leading edge of the fin as necessary (or
drill multiple holes like some have suggested).
Now that I think of it, though, I could make a fitting similar to the one
on the front of the fin on the Travel Air, which consists of two 90 degree
tabs with a long threaded bolt horizontally between them. The bolt goes
through the leading edge of the fin with a lock nut on either side of the
fin. This allows infinite adjustments by repositioning the locknuts and
moving the fin left or right. This is really not much different than
Bernie designed, the bolt through the fin is just a little longer.
Gene
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Alex Sloan alexms1(at)bellsouth.net
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:41:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/01/03
Group,
How many of the flying Pietenpol's have placed a tuft of yarn about 12-18"
long in the center of the fuselage forward of the wind screen to see if they
are flying straight or in a crab? The answer to this question will do a lot
for us in answering the question of offsetting the vertical fin or adding a
rudder trim tab. I did this test when test flying the RV-6 and offsetting
the vertical stab caused a lot of unnecessary work. Ended up resetting it
straight and adding a trim tab on the rudder. On my Pietenpol I will set
the stab straight unless information gathered says otherwise. Looking
forward to the answer to the first question..
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: <Woodflier(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/01/03
>
> Gene, I offset the leading edge of my fin 1/4" to the left. If I don't
like
> the way it flies, I'll make up two new forward fin brackets and align it
> straight.
>
> Matt Paxton
>
>
> In a message dated 6/2/03 2:58:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
>
> From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question #7
>
>
> To add to my list of questions (not that my previous ones have generated
> many responses):
>
> 7. Are any of you offsetting the vertical fin to the left, or are you
> aligning it with the fuselage?????
>
> Gene >>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/01/03 |
In the same Flying and Glider Manual (1932) Check out the "Ramsey
Bathtub" The same way, just make it fit in the wooden fuse of the
Piet.
If I remember correct is about 1" each side with washer adjustments.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- "rambog(at)erols.com" wrote:
>
>
>
> The yarn thing is probably not necessary as most of the builders I
> have
> heard on here are putting turn and banks, or at least inclinometers
> in
> their aircraft. I don't know whether the fin offset (or tab) would
> necessarily affect the slip/skid, but it will affect wing heaviness.
>
> I want to avoid using a trim tab at all costs. It sounds like most
> responses on here have resorted to tabs, so some offset must be
> necessary.
> I may make the holes in the horiz stab far enough apart that I could
> change
> the lower fittings and move the leading edge of the fin as necessary
> (or
> drill multiple holes like some have suggested).
>
> Now that I think of it, though, I could make a fitting similar to the
> one
> on the front of the fin on the Travel Air, which consists of two 90
> degree
> tabs with a long threaded bolt horizontally between them. The bolt
> goes
> through the leading edge of the fin with a lock nut on either side of
> the
> fin. This allows infinite adjustments by repositioning the locknuts
> and
> moving the fin left or right. This is really not much different than
> Bernie designed, the bolt through the fin is just a little longer.
>
> Gene
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Alex Sloan alexms1(at)bellsouth.net
> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:41:29 -0500
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs -
> 06/01/03
>
>
>
>
> Group,
> How many of the flying Pietenpol's have placed a tuft of yarn about
> 12-18"
> long in the center of the fuselage forward of the wind screen to see
> if they
> are flying straight or in a crab? The answer to this question will
> do a lot
> for us in answering the question of offsetting the vertical fin or
> adding a
> rudder trim tab. I did this test when test flying the RV-6 and
> offsetting
> the vertical stab caused a lot of unnecessary work. Ended up
> resetting it
> straight and adding a trim tab on the rudder. On my Pietenpol I will
> set
> the stab straight unless information gathered says otherwise.
> Looking
> forward to the answer to the first question..
> Alex Sloan
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Woodflier(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/01/03
>
>
> >
> > Gene, I offset the leading edge of my fin 1/4" to the left. If I
> don't
> like
> > the way it flies, I'll make up two new forward fin brackets and
> align it
> > straight.
> >
> > Matt Paxton
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 6/2/03 2:58:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
> >
> > From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question #7
> >
>
> >
> > To add to my list of questions (not that my previous ones have
> generated
> > many responses):
> >
> > 7. Are any of you offsetting the vertical fin to the left, or are
> you
> > aligning it with the fuselage?????
> >
> > Gene >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | Re: Piet speed (was Piet rigging) |
Stefan, at 2150 rpm on a 65 Cont. I cruise at 71-72 mph (gps, no wind)
stall at 29 mph and when I hit
about 95-100 mph I gently ease out of that since it sounds like the fat
lady is about to sing. Others may differ.
Running a 72"-42P wood prop.
PS-- Corky-- I think on a 96 F day the reason you don't have much left in
the flare with two souls aboard is because
the air is so thin. How was your climb out ? I wouldn't dare take
another person on a 96 F for a ride. (course then
Edwin doesn't weigh what we do---thankfully.)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Pietenpol Wing Washout |
From: | Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
On the subject of wing washout:
Washout is a reduced angle of incidence at a wing tip as compared to the
root. (It's as if the wing is twisted slightly toward the nose looking from
root to tip.)
All wings that don't have any washout tend to stall near the tips first.
(Lower aspect ratio wings have a stronger tendency than high aspect ratio
wings and swept wings have a much stronger tendency that straight wings.)
The purpose of washout in any wing is to prevent a stall close to the
wingtip before a stall begins near the root. A stall causes a rapid loss of
lift and a partial stall near the tip, if not perfectly balanced, will cause
an airplane to roll towards the stalled tip. The natural tendency of a
pilot is to stop that roll with an aileron input which only worsens the
stall on the low side.
By rigging washout in the wing, the stall onset can be forced to occur
closer to the wing root. Any imbalance in a stall at the root won't roll
the airplane as much as a tip stall and stall recovery can be initiated
before feeling any need to roll the airplane upright.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
I built it right down the middle, with the engine mount per plans ( only a
little longer) and yaw is not a problem.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question #7
>
> I don't know about low powered airplanes not needing the offset, have you
> ever seen a Aeronca Champ fuselage? The fin is offset nearly an inch. A
> Cub is offset, too. I don't know for sure about the common belief that
the
> offset is for torque, I believe that it is to correct for adverse yaw as a
> result of P factor. I know the Cessna Airmaster I used to have had the
> non-adjustable fin set in the middle, and the thing would never fly hands
> off without rolling off to one side until I discovered that they
originally
> came with an externally adjustable rudder trim tab (which the previous
> restorer had omitted for appearance sake). Once I installed the tab, it
> flew perfectly.
>
> I do NOT want to install a tab on the Piet if I can help it. C'mon you
guys
> with flying airplanes, especially Model A powered, offset fin or not?????
>
> Gene
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question #7
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 6/1/03 9:03:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
> rambog(at)erols.com
> > writes:
> >
> > << 7. Are any of you offsetting the vertical fin to the left, or are
you
> > aligning it with the fuselage????? >>
> >
> > Gene,
> > My fin is aligned with the fuselage, but I ofset the A65 engine mount
> about
> > 1/16" to the right. Low power aircraft usually don't need the fin
offset
> to
> > account for torque.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I offset mine 1/2 inch from the centerline, and offset the engine mount
too.
Steve e.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question #7
I don't know about low powered airplanes not needing the offset, have
you
ever seen a Aeronca Champ fuselage? The fin is offset nearly an inch.
A
Cub is offset, too. I don't know for sure about the common belief that
the
offset is for torque, I believe that it is to correct for adverse yaw as
a
result of P factor. I know the Cessna Airmaster I used to have had the
non-adjustable fin set in the middle, and the thing would never fly
hands
off without rolling off to one side until I discovered that they
originally
came with an externally adjustable rudder trim tab (which the previous
restorer had omitted for appearance sake). Once I installed the tab, it
flew perfectly.
I do NOT want to install a tab on the Piet if I can help it. C'mon you
guys
with flying airplanes, especially Model A powered, offset fin or
not?????
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question #7
>
> In a message dated 6/1/03 9:03:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
rambog(at)erols.com
> writes:
>
> << 7. Are any of you offsetting the vertical fin to the left, or are
you
> aligning it with the fuselage????? >>
>
> Gene,
> My fin is aligned with the fuselage, but I ofset the A65 engine mount
about
> 1/16" to the right. Low power aircraft usually don't need the fin
offset
to
> account for torque.
>
> Chuck
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Wing Washout |
Mike,
I like your explanation of wing tip stall. So, for me to understand the
suggested wing twist in my Pietenpol, the outer wing tips should not have as
much incidence as the root, correct? So, as the wing loses lift, the wing
tips are at a lower AOA and will still be flying. Is this what your saying?
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Wing Washout
>
> On the subject of wing washout:
>
> Washout is a reduced angle of incidence at a wing tip as compared to the
> root. (It's as if the wing is twisted slightly toward the nose looking
from
> root to tip.)
>
> All wings that don't have any washout tend to stall near the tips first.
> (Lower aspect ratio wings have a stronger tendency than high aspect ratio
> wings and swept wings have a much stronger tendency that straight wings.)
>
> The purpose of washout in any wing is to prevent a stall close to the
> wingtip before a stall begins near the root. A stall causes a rapid loss
of
> lift and a partial stall near the tip, if not perfectly balanced, will
cause
> an airplane to roll towards the stalled tip. The natural tendency of a
> pilot is to stop that roll with an aileron input which only worsens the
> stall on the low side.
>
> By rigging washout in the wing, the stall onset can be forced to occur
> closer to the wing root. Any imbalance in a stall at the root won't roll
> the airplane as much as a tip stall and stall recovery can be initiated
> before feeling any need to roll the airplane upright.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Piet speed (was Piet rigging) |
From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Nx7229r is 74mph cruise. 104mph VNE.
I came up with the 104 on my own during flight test phase. The airplane
gave all kinds of complaints at that speed. Lots of wind noise, felt
like it wanted to nose over, stiff controls. Keep it slower and it
will be happy.
Steve e.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stefan
Vorkoetter
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet speed (was Piet rigging)
Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
> 80 mph?????????????? Maybe in my model T but never in a Piet
Which brings me to a question I've had. How fast can a Piet cruise
(Vno)?
I've heard everything from 65 mph to 95 mph. Also, what's the typical
(Vne)?
Stefan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Piet speed (was Piet rigging) |
Pardon me for asking but were you in a kamakazi attitude to obtain that
104?????????
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Piet speed (was Piet rigging) |
From: | cat_designs(at)juno.com |
In the book "How I make wood propellers" by Alvin Schubert the author talks about
carving several props for Berne Pietenpol and Vi Capler for use on a corvair
powered Air Camper. Full throttle speed was 100 mph (3500 rpm) cruise was 78
mph (2900 rpm). The authors indicates it was the best propeller that had used
on the plane. I'd say the Vne should be 100 mph anything above this is unknown
ground (and very hard to obtain).
Chris
Sacramento, CA
--- Stefan Vorkoetter wrote:
Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
> 80 mph?????????????? Maybe in my model T but never in a Piet
Which brings me to a question I've had. How fast can a Piet cruise (Vno)?
I've heard everything from 65 mph to 95 mph. Also, what's the typical (Vne)?
Stefan
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Wing Washout |
From: | Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
on 6/2/03 12:23, Alex Sloan at alexms1(at)bellsouth.net wrote:
>
> Mike,
> I like your explanation of wing tip stall. So, for me to understand the
> suggested wing twist in my Pietenpol, the outer wing tips should not have as
> much incidence as the root, correct? So, as the wing loses lift, the wing
> tips are at a lower AOA and will still be flying. Is this what your saying?
> Alex Sloan
>
Generally, yes.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Wing Washout
>
>
>>
>> On the subject of wing washout:
>>
>> Washout is a reduced angle of incidence at a wing tip as compared to the
>> root. (It's as if the wing is twisted slightly toward the nose looking
> from
>> root to tip.)
>>
>> All wings that don't have any washout tend to stall near the tips first.
>> (Lower aspect ratio wings have a stronger tendency than high aspect ratio
>> wings and swept wings have a much stronger tendency that straight wings.)
>>
>> The purpose of washout in any wing is to prevent a stall close to the
>> wingtip before a stall begins near the root. A stall causes a rapid loss
> of
>> lift and a partial stall near the tip, if not perfectly balanced, will
> cause
>> an airplane to roll towards the stalled tip. The natural tendency of a
>> pilot is to stop that roll with an aileron input which only worsens the
>> stall on the low side.
>>
>> By rigging washout in the wing, the stall onset can be forced to occur
>> closer to the wing root. Any imbalance in a stall at the root won't roll
>> the airplane as much as a tip stall and stall recovery can be initiated
>> before feeling any need to roll the airplane upright.
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
Subject: | Re: Piet rigging |
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
+++++++++++++++++++
Corky,
I had the same problem with no-float after starting to flare for the
landing. Probably more extreme than you have because of our higher
(sometimes more than 10,000 feet) density altitude.
The first few landings I made were when I came over the fence at about 60
indicated and when I flared, the damn'd thing just wanted to drop out of the
sky! The Piet design has so much drag that as soon as you increase the
angle of attack, it slows down dramatically and just quits flying (stalls).
I then experimented with a higher approach speed and this did the trick.
The higher approach speed results in a surplus of energy during the flare
which translates into more float and therefore you have more time to adjust
the height of the flare. You can also increase the flare by adding a
little power on the landings. As a result of this learning curve, I now
come over the fence faster than 70 indicated. When using power, set up your
approach some distance out and use just enough power to check the sink rate
and then don't change a thing until you have all wheels firmly planted with
the stick back in your belly so you have positive directional control.
As far as wash out is concerned, I put about 3/8" measured at the trailing
edge of the aileron. A normal stall is straight foward, although a power on
stall tends to drop the left wing, probably due to P-factor.
Hope this helps, Good Flying!
John
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Pieters,
> Our little Piet 41CC has 33:45 successful flying time. I have about 5 dual
> with my test-instructor pilot Mr Johnson. Yesterday he had me shooting
landings
> on a sod crop duster strip in the cotton fields down south. 96 La degrees,
mid
> afternoon, lots of fresh cultivated acres below. CC was bouncing like
Jr.'s
> rubber ball. Density altitude, 200 ft above sea level. When I flared,
usually
> too high, CC seemed to be unaffected and kept on earthward.
> QUESTION?
> Given the 2 degree + incidence at the root in level flight according to
the
> plans, what should be the washout reading at the outer rib? I'm feeling
that
> the entire wing is stalling at the same time.
> Need some thoughts and chatter on this subject
> Corky in La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question #7
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Gene,
I did offset the leading edge of the vertical fin 1" to the left. This
seems about right in cruise, however, you will still have to hold a little
right rudder in a climb.
Hope this helps, Good Flying!
John
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> To add to my list of questions (not that my previous ones have generated
> many responses):
>
> 7. Are any of you offsetting the vertical fin to the left, or are you
> aligning it with the fuselage?????
>
> Gene
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
Subject: | Clarification of my Piets" landing characteristics |
Corky,
I should explain that my Piet probably weighs a 150 lbs more than yours does, because
of the engine, etc, etc.
This is the reason that my approach speeds are somewhat higher than you would see,
however, the principle of surplus energy is still valid to smooth out your
landings.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
Subject: | Split Axle Springs |
Those of you who are using a split axle on their Aircamper, what type of
springs did you use and where did you get them?
In an old issue of the BPA there is a spring set up to replace the
bungees which calls for H56 Lamina springs, what are they?
Dennis Engelkenjohn
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
Subject: | Re:Fin offset and A engine mounts |
Gene
I really like your solution to fin adjustment as stated below. It is also
one of the reasons I stay with this group.
Great Ideas, new or old. One thing that led me to the Piet/GN-1 is the
infinite solutions builders seem to find to little problems or quirks of the
design.
In response to one of your earlier questions about A engine mounts: BHP
states that the down thrust angle of ash engine bearers allow the prop to
bite the air squarely in climb attitude. How do we know this is right? I
assume he tried many different angles.
I have decided to make a tubular engine mount that is adjustable in thrust
line both horizontally and vertically. It would consist of two long "V's" to
carry the front of the engine and two shorter ones for the rear. The engine
itself is a rigid beam. If the cowlings are mounted only to the engine and
mount, thrust line changes wouldn't require cowling changes.
The angle of incidence of the wing to fuselage and also to the thrust line,
seems like an area that a lot of experimenting can go into. When each
individual builder incorporates their own small changes, it gets a little
tough to compare if changes are beneficial. I think it was Graham Hansen who
said or quoted "Add lightness and simplicate!"
That Travel Air fin adjust method is a good example.
John Mc
Now that I think of it, though, I could make a fitting similar to the one
on the front of the fin on the Travel Air, which consists of two 90 degree
tabs with a long threaded bolt horizontally between them. The bolt goes
through the leading edge of the fin with a lock nut on either side of the
fin. This allows infinite adjustments by repositioning the locknuts and
moving the fin left or right. This is really not much different than
Bernie designed, the bolt through the fin is just a little longer.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
Subject: | need some input from those who have flown a standard Piet, |
and also a Piet with dihedral
I have been running into an annoying problem with my Piet. In still air it flies
beautifully, hands off. but later in the morning when the turbulence starts,
I seem to be all over the place, being tossed around like a cork. I couldn't
even imagine flying some major cross country in anything but sunset or sunrise.
Could this be from my lack of dihedral, or is it just because it's a light plane.
(and mine seems to be one of the lightest.) Maybe the heavier planes are
better in the wind.
I would consider putting in the normal dihedral, but I don't want to go thru the
labor and time down, only to find out that it really makes no difference. When
I was flying the Cub and Aeronca, I didn't seem to feel this. But then again
I didn't have enough hours in either to maybe realize it.
Did anyone out there happen to fly both? And if so, was there a big difference?
thanks,
walt evans
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
Subject: | Re: Piet rigging |
Corky,
Try this. Use an approach speed of around 65 MPH and hold it until you are
about 6" above the ground. Pull back smoothly on the stick and you will
flare and should have a smooth landing. I found that trying anything less
than 65 resulted in what you describe. You just seem to run out of elevator
and the thing just keeps sinking into the ground with thud.
What I describe above is a dead stick landing. If you come in with slight
power you can slow the approach down a little. Cut the power at the 6"
point and you have another great landing.
I fly a Cessna 140A and this thing doesn't flare or float anything like it
or any other plane I have flown.
Try this and report back. You might experiment and find a better approach
speed for yours. They all seem a little different.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
>
> Pieters,
> Our little Piet 41CC has 33:45 successful flying time. I have about 5 dual
> with my test-instructor pilot Mr Johnson. Yesterday he had me shooting
landings
> on a sod crop duster strip in the cotton fields down south. 96 La degrees,
mid
> afternoon, lots of fresh cultivated acres below. CC was bouncing like
Jr.'s
> rubber ball. Density altitude, 200 ft above sea level. When I flared,
usually
> too high, CC seemed to be unaffected and kept on earthward.
> QUESTION?
> Given the 2 degree + incidence at the root in level flight according to
the
> plans, what should be the washout reading at the outer rib? I'm feeling
that
> the entire wing is stalling at the same time.
> Need some thoughts and chatter on this subject
> Corky in La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com> |
Subject: | Re: Split Axle Springs |
Dennis, The H56 Lamina Springs are Die Springs as used in large stamping
dies. If you have a tool and Die builder in your area he will be able to
get them for you. Another source would be from a McMaster Carr Catalog.
They sell everything you can think of for industry. There Web site is
www.mcmaster.com
Jim D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
>
> Those of you who are using a split axle on their Aircamper, what type of
> springs did you use and where did you get them?
>
> In an old issue of the BPA there is a spring set up to replace the
> bungees which calls for H56 Lamina springs, what are they?
>
> Dennis Engelkenjohn
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | John Dilatush's comments---good reading |
Guys---it's good to see the list chattering again about Piet stuff
! John's comments about the Piet being draggy and not giving one much time
in the flare is so true when compared to other planes we have been used to
flying. (especially if you are used to the nice cushion you get when
flaring a low-winged airplane on landing.) I often adjust how much speed I
carry on the final approach depending on load and other conditions like
temperature and wind. Mostly load and temperature. Another thing that
takes some getting used to is that never has one's butt been so close to a
runway in a flare and it's just natural to flare too high for your first
few landings (or in my case 30:) .
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!! |
Walt-- Would you please talk to all the other pilots in the area who think
I'm a whimp on hot bumpy, windy days with my Piet???? I have the EXACT
same issues with turbulence as compared to when flying a Cub or Champ or
anything heavier. Many others here do not believe me when I say how
sensitive my Piet is to turbulence. It's very obvious when I fly to a
pancake breakfast (or from more likely) with another plane in loose
formation that I am the one getting tossed around, not the other
plane. There are very few 2 seat single engine planes out there that have
an empty weight near 600 lbs. like ours do.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Split Axle Springs |
Dennis,
AS & S catalog for 2001 - 2002 page 214 describes "Shock Absorber Coil
Rings" @ $86.25 for a pair. They come with instructions for gear
fabrication. They are die springs.
DickG.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
>
> Dennis, The H56 Lamina Springs are Die Springs as used in large stamping
> dies. If you have a tool and Die builder in your area he will be able to
> get them for you. Another source would be from a McMaster Carr Catalog.
> They sell everything you can think of for industry. There Web site is
> www.mcmaster.com
>
> Jim D.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
>
>
>
> >
> > Those of you who are using a split axle on their Aircamper, what type of
> > springs did you use and where did you get them?
> >
> > In an old issue of the BPA there is a spring set up to replace the
> > bungees which calls for H56 Lamina springs, what are they?
> >
> > Dennis Engelkenjohn
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Chords, aero not music |
Pieters,
Would someone in the know, and that's most of you, list the chords and NACA
numbers of the wings of the Cub and aeronca. Would be interesting to compare
the airfoils to the BHP FC10.
CMC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "rambog(at)erols.com" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | John Dilatush's comments---good reading |
I agree with you guys. The first time I flew a Piet, someone's A powered
one at Brodhead, I came in at what I thought was a good speed but with a
healthy sink rate. When I tried to flare a little to slow the descent rate
it fell out of the sky. I had to endure a LOT of ribbing from the "bunch"
and numerous inspections of the gear. Since then, it has been fast and
flat!
(not that I get to fly Piets that often)
Gene
FINALLY MAKING PROGRESS!!!!!!!!!
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Michael D Cuy Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 07:33:32 -0400
Subject: Pietenpol-List: John Dilatush's comments---good reading
Guys---it's good to see the list chattering again about Piet stuff
! John's comments about the Piet being draggy and not giving one much time
in the flare is so true when compared to other planes we have been used to
flying. (especially if you are used to the nice cushion you get when
flaring a low-winged airplane on landing.) I often adjust how much speed I
carry on the final approach depending on load and other conditions like
temperature and wind. Mostly load and temperature. Another thing that
takes some getting used to is that never has one's butt been so close to a
runway in a flare and it's just natural to flare too high for your first
few landings (or in my case 30:) .
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ronnie Wagner" <wlrdlr(at)starband.net> |
Subject: | Re: Split Axle Springs |
Dennis,
I used the A.S. & S springs on mine but a retired tractor dealer looked at
them sitting on the table and asked "what are you going to use them Baler
tension springs for?". May be you can find them locally.
Ronnie.
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
>
>
> Those of you who are using a split axle on their Aircamper, what type of
> springs did you use and where did you get them?
>
> In an old issue of the BPA there is a spring set up to replace the
> bungees which calls for H56 Lamina springs, what are they?
>
> Dennis Engelkenjohn
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alan James" <MADjames(at)theknapp.freeserve.co.uk> |
Subject: | Re: Piet speed (was Piet rigging) |
G-BUCO cruises at 70 knots at 2050 rpm on a C90 swinging home made 70 x 48
prop.
At 2150 rpm we cruise at 75 knots. The PFA quote a VNE for the Piet of 100
knots.
Alan James
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet speed (was Piet rigging)
>
> Nx7229r is 74mph cruise. 104mph VNE.
>
> I came up with the 104 on my own during flight test phase. The airplane
> gave all kinds of complaints at that speed. Lots of wind noise, felt
> like it wanted to nose over, stiff controls. Keep it slower and it
> will be happy.
>
> Steve e.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stefan
> Vorkoetter
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet speed (was Piet rigging)
>
>
>
> Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> > 80 mph?????????????? Maybe in my model T but never in a Piet
>
> Which brings me to a question I've had. How fast can a Piet cruise
> (Vno)?
> I've heard everything from 65 mph to 95 mph. Also, what's the typical
> (Vne)?
>
> Stefan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
Subject: | Re: need some input from those who have flown a standard |
Piet, and also a Piet with dihedral
----- Original Message -----
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: need some input from those who have flown a
standard Piet, and also a Piet with dihedral
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Walt,
What you have been experiencing is pretty normal with a Pietenpol.
Remember, this plane was designed in 1929 and most planes of that era were
judged to be good flyers if they were only controllable! In the intervening
54 years designs have gradually improved, designers have discovered the
advantages of Frise ailerons (and other variations) to control adverse yaw,
tail volumes have gone from a coefficient of .3 to higher than .5 to improve
directional stability and airfoils have changed that are more stable as
designers have become more sophisticated. Many other aerodynamic
improvements have been made. A Pietenpol is an antique airplane and we can
not expect it to fly like a Super Cub, Husky, or Cirrus.
When you run into turbulence, and it starts wallowing around, part of the
problem is attempting to correct every little deviation. Just relax and let
it go, the plane will gradually settle down in it's own way, just not as
smoothly as the modern designs of today.
Don't change a thing on your plane, it is as it is. And you can brag to all
your fiends that you are one of the few, to have the skills of an old-time
pilot when you take off into the wild blue yonder!
None of this modern sissy stuff for us Pietenpol Pilots!
John
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
r
>
> I have been running into an annoying problem with my Piet. In still air
it flies beautifully, hands off. but later in the morning when the
turbulence starts, I seem to be all over the place, being tossed around like
a cork. I couldn't even imagine flying some major cross country in anything
but sunset or sunrise.
> Could this be from my lack of dihedral, or is it just because it's a
light plane. (and mine seems to be one of the lightest.) Maybe the heavier
planes are better in the wind.
> I would consider putting in the normal dihedral, but I don't want to go
thru the labor and time down, only to find out that it really makes no
difference. When I was flying the Cub and Aeronca, I didn't seem to feel
this. But then again I didn't have enough hours in either to maybe realize
it.
> Did anyone out there happen to fly both? And if so, was there a big
difference?
> thanks,
> walt evans
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Split Axle Springs |
>
>Dennis,
>I used the A.S. & S springs on mine but a retired tractor dealer looked at
>them sitting on the table and asked "what are you going to use them Baler
>tension springs for?". May be you can find them locally.
>Ronnie.
If I remember correctly, there have been 2 references to this on the list
over the years (my computer is to old & slow to get on the web & do an
archive search).
If memory serves me, in one post someone mentioned a company in Minneapolis
that sells industrial springs (with a part #) & in the other someone listed
a John Deere part number (maybe the above-mentioned Baler Tension Springs?)
Maybe someone can check the archive? I'm interested in these too & now I
can't find either post among the ones I've saved for 'future reference'.
Kip Gardner
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
Subject: | Re: Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!! |
Mike,
Got an email from a flyer who thought that the problem could be control
cables a little on the loose side. Didn't want to post his message to me on
the group, but he might have a point. I've always been very wary of over
tight control cables and something breaking. Could I/you have slightly
slack cables causing this squirrelly condition???
It just bothers me to think that some day on flying to Brodhead in my
dreams,,,, and in reality, when the wind kicks up in the real world, I'm
lucky to make it back the 15/20 miles to home base.
Maybe I'm just a sissy
ms. walt evans
would it help to carry an anvil in the front hole?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!!
>
> Walt-- Would you please talk to all the other pilots in the area who think
> I'm a whimp on hot bumpy, windy days with my Piet???? I have the EXACT
> same issues with turbulence as compared to when flying a Cub or Champ or
> anything heavier. Many others here do not believe me when I say how
> sensitive my Piet is to turbulence. It's very obvious when I fly to a
> pancake breakfast (or from more likely) with another plane in loose
> formation that I am the one getting tossed around, not the other
> plane. There are very few 2 seat single engine planes out there that have
> an empty weight near 600 lbs. like ours do.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mark Stevens" <taxt(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Bartelsville Bi-plane Expo |
Just wanted to pass along to everyone there is a fly in at Bartelsville OK
(BVO) this weekend. One of the better ones that I have been too. Great
people and an excellent time. Took my first flight in a Bi-plane there and
was sold on open cockpit flying after that. If you get a chance come on up.
Mark
http://www.biplaneexpo.com/
"Once you fly you will walk with your eyes skyward.
For there you have been and there you will go again."
Leornardo da Vinci 1452-1519
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard deCosta <curiousspider(at)yahoo.com> |
I did a little more research and decided not to use my
82" prop on my piet. I posted it on ebay if anyone's
interested:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=26439&item=2418038376
Richard
=====
http://www.RicharddeCosta.com
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Daniel Bailey" <dbceltic(at)micoks.net> |
Subject: | Chords, aero not music |
>Would someone in the know, and that's most of you, list the chords and NACA
>numbers of the wings of the Cub and aeronca. Would be interesting to compare
>the airfoils to the BHP FC10.
Don't know chords offhand, but Aeroncas, depending on model were NACA 4412 or Clark Y. Piper Cubs were USA 35B. Good resource for this stuff is: http://www.aae.uiuc.edu/m-selig/ads/aircraft.html "The incomplete guide to airfoil usage". Can't find my airfoil book, anybody got the ordinates for these airfoils? Lift curve?
Dan Bailey
Paola, KS
(Building ribs)
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Malley <jgmalley(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Re: Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!! |
True cross country jaunts are really tough. Don't believe the anvil would
help, I regularly fly at 1250 gross and have often experienced not being
able to control altitude within 400 feet each way on a windy sunny day.
Tightening and loosening control cables has made no difference. Our trips to
Brodhead were made in the mornings and evenings of many days. You can try
going above the scattered cumulus but then you can't see the roadsigns.
Jim Malley
----- Original Message -----
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!!
>
> Mike,
> Got an email from a flyer who thought that the problem could be control
> cables a little on the loose side. Didn't want to post his message to me
on
> the group, but he might have a point. I've always been very wary of over
> tight control cables and something breaking. Could I/you have slightly
> slack cables causing this squirrelly condition???
> It just bothers me to think that some day on flying to Brodhead in my
> dreams,,,, and in reality, when the wind kicks up in the real world, I'm
> lucky to make it back the 15/20 miles to home base.
> Maybe I'm just a sissy
> ms. walt evans
> would it help to carry an anvil in the front hole?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!!
>
>
>
> >
> > Walt-- Would you please talk to all the other pilots in the area who
think
> > I'm a whimp on hot bumpy, windy days with my Piet???? I have the EXACT
> > same issues with turbulence as compared to when flying a Cub or Champ or
> > anything heavier. Many others here do not believe me when I say how
> > sensitive my Piet is to turbulence. It's very obvious when I fly to a
> > pancake breakfast (or from more likely) with another plane in loose
> > formation that I am the one getting tossed around, not the other
> > plane. There are very few 2 seat single engine planes out there that
have
> > an empty weight near 600 lbs. like ours do.
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
Subject: | Split Axle Springs |
I looked in the archives per Kips suggestion and found:
H56 Lamina is a brand and they are available at $17.25 ea. through:
Precision Punch and Plastics
Minnetonka, MN (800) 227-0690
The springs are also available in extra heavy duty, : XH56 Lamina and
are about twice as strong as the regular. Duane Woolsey recommended the
heavier duty in June of '99, said his Piet sagged down too far with the
weaker ones.
The John Deere spring is Part # T143444 and cost was $12.00 ea.
Dennis Engelkenjohn
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
Subject: | connecting rod nuts |
Thanks for all the replies to my question. Oscar hit it on the head with
what I wanted. I used the Mexican nut starting method to get them on. My
youngest sons girlfriend is a little mexican girl with tiny hands and
feet and her little hands fit in the crankcase with room to spare. She's
good to have around, hard worker too, more than her boyfriend!
Dennis Engelkenjohn
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
Subject: | Re: Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!! |
Jim,
That is the right attitude (pun intended). False expectations are what get
us into trouble. Like expecting other drivers on the road to drive sanely.
The same with the Piet. Once you start thinking of the Piet being a fun
plane that you have to pay attention to, you start to have fun. It is rare
that you can fly hands off. On the other hand, I give her a free hand and
roll with whatever comes. Most of the time every action is followed by an
equal and opposite reaction. Right wing lifts. A few seconds later it is
usually coming back down on its own. I hardly ever touch the ailerons. A
little rudder to bring the wing up, if it doesn't come up on its own, and
let the altitude run. The only time I jump in and take over on altitude is
if I catch a thermal and start climbing through 1000'. Then I get serious
and bring her back down to 500'. Starts getting cool up that high.
And watch out for those thermals you get at the end of paved runways during
the summer. Just when you think you have a greaser you start ballooning,
then dropping as you go over the runway numbers and then up you go again.
But, that's what gives you a swagger as you dismount and walk among those
tricycle pilots.
See you at Brodhead.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Malley" <jgmalley(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!!
>
> True cross country jaunts are really tough. Don't believe the anvil would
> help, I regularly fly at 1250 gross and have often experienced not being
> able to control altitude within 400 feet each way on a windy sunny day.
> Tightening and loosening control cables has made no difference. Our trips
to
> Brodhead were made in the mornings and evenings of many days. You can try
> going above the scattered cumulus but then you can't see the roadsigns.
> Jim Malley
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!!
>
>
> >
> > Mike,
> > Got an email from a flyer who thought that the problem could be control
> > cables a little on the loose side. Didn't want to post his message to
me
> on
> > the group, but he might have a point. I've always been very wary of
over
> > tight control cables and something breaking. Could I/you have slightly
> > slack cables causing this squirrelly condition???
> > It just bothers me to think that some day on flying to Brodhead in my
> > dreams,,,, and in reality, when the wind kicks up in the real world, I'm
> > lucky to make it back the 15/20 miles to home base.
> > Maybe I'm just a sissy
> > ms. walt evans
> > would it help to carry an anvil in the front hole?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Walt-- Would you please talk to all the other pilots in the area who
> think
> > > I'm a whimp on hot bumpy, windy days with my Piet???? I have the
EXACT
> > > same issues with turbulence as compared to when flying a Cub or Champ
or
> > > anything heavier. Many others here do not believe me when I say how
> > > sensitive my Piet is to turbulence. It's very obvious when I fly to a
> > > pancake breakfast (or from more likely) with another plane in loose
> > > formation that I am the one getting tossed around, not the other
> > > plane. There are very few 2 seat single engine planes out there that
> have
> > > an empty weight near 600 lbs. like ours do.
> > >
> > > Mike C.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!! |
Ted,
I printed that one out and hung it on the wall. Says it all.
Thanks
Peter.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted
Brousseau
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!!
-->
Jim,
That is the right attitude (pun intended). False expectations are what get
us into trouble. Like expecting other drivers on the road to drive sanely.
The same with the Piet. Once you start thinking of the Piet being a fun
plane that you have to pay attention to, you start to have fun. It is rare
that you can fly hands off. On the other hand, I give her a free hand and
roll with whatever comes. Most of the time every action is followed by an
equal and opposite reaction. Right wing lifts. A few seconds later it is
usually coming back down on its own. I hardly ever touch the ailerons. A
little rudder to bring the wing up, if it doesn't come up on its own, and
let the altitude run. The only time I jump in and take over on altitude is
if I catch a thermal and start climbing through 1000'. Then I get serious
and bring her back down to 500'. Starts getting cool up that high.
And watch out for those thermals you get at the end of paved runways during
the summer. Just when you think you have a greaser you start ballooning,
then dropping as you go over the runway numbers and then up you go again.
But, that's what gives you a swagger as you dismount and walk among those
tricycle pilots.
See you at Brodhead.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Malley" <jgmalley(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!!
> -->
>
> True cross country jaunts are really tough. Don't believe the anvil
> would help, I regularly fly at 1250 gross and have often experienced
> not being able to control altitude within 400 feet each way on a windy
> sunny day. Tightening and loosening control cables has made no
> difference. Our trips
to
> Brodhead were made in the mornings and evenings of many days. You can
> try going above the scattered cumulus but then you can't see the
> roadsigns. Jim Malley
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!!
>
>
> > -->
> >
> > Mike,
> > Got an email from a flyer who thought that the problem could be
> > control cables a little on the loose side. Didn't want to post his
> > message to
me
> on
> > the group, but he might have a point. I've always been very wary of
over
> > tight control cables and something breaking. Could I/you have
> > slightly slack cables causing this squirrelly condition??? It just
> > bothers me to think that some day on flying to Brodhead in my
> > dreams,,,, and in reality, when the wind kicks up in the real world,
> > I'm lucky to make it back the 15/20 miles to home base. Maybe I'm
> > just a sissy ms. walt evans
> > would it help to carry an anvil in the front hole?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Walt-- Would you please talk to all the other pilots in the area
> > > who
> think
> > > I'm a whimp on hot bumpy, windy days with my Piet???? I have the
EXACT
> > > same issues with turbulence as compared to when flying a Cub or
> > > Champ
or
> > > anything heavier. Many others here do not believe me when I say
> > > how sensitive my Piet is to turbulence. It's very obvious when I
> > > fly to a pancake breakfast (or from more likely) with another
> > > plane in loose formation that I am the one getting tossed around,
> > > not the other plane. There are very few 2 seat single engine
> > > planes out there that
> have
> > > an empty weight near 600 lbs. like ours do.
> > >
> > > Mike C.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ronnie Wagner" <wlrdlr(at)starband.net> |
Subject: | Re: Split Axle Springs |
Dennis,
One of the few parts I bought new, it figures I paid too much!
I bet they are the same thing.
I would post a picture if someone can tell an ignorant redneck from Arkansas
how to do it. No big words please!
Ronnie
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
>
>
> I looked in the archives per Kips suggestion and found:
>
> H56 Lamina is a brand and they are available at $17.25 ea. through:
>
> Precision Punch and Plastics
> Minnetonka, MN (800) 227-0690
>
> The springs are also available in extra heavy duty, : XH56 Lamina and
> are about twice as strong as the regular. Duane Woolsey recommended the
> heavier duty in June of '99, said his Piet sagged down too far with the
> weaker ones.
>
> The John Deere spring is Part # T143444 and cost was $12.00 ea.
>
> Dennis Engelkenjohn
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
Subject: | Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here! |
I will be receiving my laser cut steel fittings from Emachineshop.com this
week. I'm excited to see just how well this process went...
I drew up the fittings in CAD, placed the laser cut order online, paid via
credit card, all without talking a person....
For those building GN-1's I'll have a bucket full of extra parts... rudder &
elevator horns, cabane brace wire lugs, and more... In order to get a
discount I
had to do a few extra pieces...
I'll post pictures when I get the stuff...
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronnie Wagner" <wlrdlr(at)starband.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
>
> Dennis,
> One of the few parts I bought new, it figures I paid too much!
> I bet they are the same thing.
> I would post a picture if someone can tell an ignorant redneck from
Arkansas
> how to do it. No big words please!
> Ronnie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
>
>
> >
>
> >
> > I looked in the archives per Kips suggestion and found:
> >
> > H56 Lamina is a brand and they are available at $17.25 ea. through:
> >
> > Precision Punch and Plastics
> > Minnetonka, MN (800) 227-0690
> >
> > The springs are also available in extra heavy duty, : XH56 Lamina and
> > are about twice as strong as the regular. Duane Woolsey recommended the
> > heavier duty in June of '99, said his Piet sagged down too far with the
> > weaker ones.
> >
> > The John Deere spring is Part # T143444 and cost was $12.00 ea.
> >
> > Dennis Engelkenjohn
> >
> >
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | slack cables and anvils |
Walt-- Since we have to THINK when doing things while building a Piet and
rigging it, one of many, many questions that I had to answer was "how tight
should my control cables be ?" I dunno. Some guys have them slack, some
you can hit B sharp on. My (always simple-minded, but it works) method was
to tighten the cables until I felt a 'binding' or sluggishness in the
control stick feel and then back-off on the turnbuckle a bit and safety
wire it. Don't want your cables jumping off the pulleys--but that would
never happen anyway since we all are installing cable guards like Tony B.
and the FAA want us to have. But, bottom line is that my cables are
pretty snug, not slack, but not guitar tight either and my plane flies just
like yours in turbulence. Your idea of the anvil in the front seat is
actually an excellent idea. I have found that with full fuel or a
passenger that the plane flies better in turbulence. Stands to reason I
guess as you are increasing the wing loading per square area.
One additional note- I found that the front seat as built to the plans
is not really durable. I've done several repairs to mine and
"beef-ups" Maybe my passengers are just rough on the seat but it seems to
take a beating. I did put rudder bar stops (simple wood blocks glued to
the floor in front of the rudder bar on each side so that the rudder does
not bang into your flippers (elevator.))
Those help to keep us from kicking the rudder bar into the front seat front
support plywood. (of which I would have made 1/4" thick not 1/8" as the
plans show.)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | Cross Country in a Piet |
Jim Malley is right on about his trips to Brodhead in his Piet. (by the
way, that is a really pretty, pretty airplane) On my first trip to
Wisconsin it took 12 hours door to door to fly from Cleveland to Watertown
Wisconsin when you could have driven that in about 9.5 hours or less. The
vis. and ceilings were superb but the wind was gusting, hot, bumpy, and
totally fatiguing. I never have slept so good in my life as that
night. It's not unsafe, it just is very, very annoying. Many times the
bumps were so strong that I would re-grip the stick about 8" down from the
top since prior to that my arm would literally fly up off the stick in a
bump.
Seat belts snug ? I was a non-gps owner then and it was no easy task
watching the sectional chart and keeping it tucked in my knee
board. Folding it to a new section was an art in itself in that kind of
turbulence. Even on a smooth day, fold your maps down low by your knees,
not up by the upper longerons.
Jim made another excellent point. On hot/turbulent days you are
basically at the mercy of the dark and light colored fields below you for
altitude control. On those days when x-country it is a constant battle to
maintain altitude. You feel like a happy sailpane one minute gaining
altitude by the gob, and the next you feel like you are in a
mini-microburst being pushed toward the ground.
The really good, happy, encouraging, and satisfying end to this e-mail
is that those days are not always the case. There have been some
days (like the trip to Indianapolis and back last Sept.) that I barely had
to touch the controls. Just keeping track of the chart and gps and
relaxing as the gorgeous farmlands scroll by below, not even noticing your
pile of sticks flying 2000 feet above. How sweet it is !
Mike C.
es eeeee
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com> |
Subject: | Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here! |
Hey DJ,
Just let me know what you have and I will take them off you hands, along
with the other pieces that I am getting from you.
You going to Oshkosh this year?
Ken
GN1 2992
Canada
-----Original Message-----
From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper(at)imagedv.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here!
I will be receiving my laser cut steel fittings from Emachineshop.com this
week. I'm excited to see just how well this process went...
I drew up the fittings in CAD, placed the laser cut order online, paid via
credit card, all without talking a person....
For those building GN-1's I'll have a bucket full of extra parts... rudder &
elevator horns, cabane brace wire lugs, and more... In order to get a
discount I
had to do a few extra pieces...
I'll post pictures when I get the stuff...
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronnie Wagner" <wlrdlr(at)starband.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
>
> Dennis,
> One of the few parts I bought new, it figures I paid too much!
> I bet they are the same thing.
> I would post a picture if someone can tell an ignorant redneck from
Arkansas
> how to do it. No big words please!
> Ronnie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
>
>
> >
>
> >
> > I looked in the archives per Kips suggestion and found:
> >
> > H56 Lamina is a brand and they are available at $17.25 ea. through:
> >
> > Precision Punch and Plastics
> > Minnetonka, MN (800) 227-0690
> >
> > The springs are also available in extra heavy duty, : XH56 Lamina and
> > are about twice as strong as the regular. Duane Woolsey recommended the
> > heavier duty in June of '99, said his Piet sagged down too far with the
> > weaker ones.
> >
> > The John Deere spring is Part # T143444 and cost was $12.00 ea.
> >
> > Dennis Engelkenjohn
> >
> >
>
>
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "rambog(at)erols.com" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | RE: continental engine |
I am not at home, so I don't have my mail list to know who I have been
talking to about engines. I have been encouraging someone on here to buy a
65 for his project. There is a Continental C-65 on EBAY right now with a
starting bid of $800. It says it was running when removed. It does not
look like there is a reserve. If I had the spare cash, I'd buy it for that
price.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
Subject: | Re: Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here! |
Thanks Ken... I have you down as wanting some parts.... I won't make it to Oshkosh
this year... I'd like to bu don't have the time... :(
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Rickards
To: 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 5:38 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here!
Hey DJ,
Just let me know what you have and I will take them off you hands, along
with the other pieces that I am getting from you.
You going to Oshkosh this year?
Ken
GN1 2992
Canada
-----Original Message-----
From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper(at)imagedv.com]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here!
I will be receiving my laser cut steel fittings from Emachineshop.com this
week. I'm excited to see just how well this process went...
I drew up the fittings in CAD, placed the laser cut order online, paid via
credit card, all without talking a person....
For those building GN-1's I'll have a bucket full of extra parts... rudder &
elevator horns, cabane brace wire lugs, and more... In order to get a
discount I
had to do a few extra pieces...
I'll post pictures when I get the stuff...
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronnie Wagner" <wlrdlr(at)starband.net>
To:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
>
> Dennis,
> One of the few parts I bought new, it figures I paid too much!
> I bet they are the same thing.
> I would post a picture if someone can tell an ignorant redneck from
Arkansas
> how to do it. No big words please!
> Ronnie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
>
>
> >
>
> >
> > I looked in the archives per Kips suggestion and found:
> >
> > H56 Lamina is a brand and they are available at $17.25 ea. through:
> >
> > Precision Punch and Plastics
> > Minnetonka, MN (800) 227-0690
> >
> > The springs are also available in extra heavy duty, : XH56 Lamina and
> > are about twice as strong as the regular. Duane Woolsey recommended the
> > heavier duty in June of '99, said his Piet sagged down too far with the
> > weaker ones.
> >
> > The John Deere spring is Part # T143444 and cost was $12.00 ea.
> >
> > Dennis Engelkenjohn
> >
> >
>
>
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
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=
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com> |
Subject: | Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here! |
No problem, just let me know how much I owe you and what other parts you
have.
Ken.
-----Original Message-----
From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper(at)imagedv.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here!
Thanks Ken... I have you down as wanting some parts.... I won't make it
to Oshkosh this year... I'd like to bu don't have the time... :(
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Rickards
To: 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 5:38 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here!
Hey DJ,
Just let me know what you have and I will take them off you hands, along
with the other pieces that I am getting from you.
You going to Oshkosh this year?
Ken
GN1 2992
Canada
-----Original Message-----
From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper(at)imagedv.com]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here!
I will be receiving my laser cut steel fittings from Emachineshop.com
this
week. I'm excited to see just how well this process went...
I drew up the fittings in CAD, placed the laser cut order online, paid via
credit card, all without talking a person....
For those building GN-1's I'll have a bucket full of extra parts... rudder
&
elevator horns, cabane brace wire lugs, and more... In order to get a
discount I
had to do a few extra pieces...
I'll post pictures when I get the stuff...
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronnie Wagner" <wlrdlr(at)starband.net>
To:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
>
> Dennis,
> One of the few parts I bought new, it figures I paid too much!
> I bet they are the same thing.
> I would post a picture if someone can tell an ignorant redneck from
Arkansas
> how to do it. No big words please!
> Ronnie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
>
>
> >
>
> >
> > I looked in the archives per Kips suggestion and found:
> >
> > H56 Lamina is a brand and they are available at $17.25 ea.
through:
> >
> > Precision Punch and Plastics
> > Minnetonka, MN (800) 227-0690
> >
> > The springs are also available in extra heavy duty, : XH56 Lamina
and
> > are about twice as strong as the regular. Duane Woolsey recommended
the
> > heavier duty in June of '99, said his Piet sagged down too far with
the
> > weaker ones.
> >
> > The John Deere spring is Part # T143444 and cost was $12.00 ea.
> >
> > Dennis Engelkenjohn
> >
> >
>
>
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
<http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
=
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information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
<http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Cross Country in a Piet |
Mike C. has it right when he describes X-country flying with a Pietenpol.
Flying it in smooth air is pure delight, but in turbulence it is a tiring
operation with no possibility of demonstrating any degree of flying finesse.
It's just a matter of hanging on and keeping the nose pointed where you
want to go. Maintaining a precise altitude is out of the question.
I have owned Aeronca Champs, Taylorcraft and Luscombe airplanes and they
were not much fun in rough air, either. But they all are physically bigger
and heavier than a typical Pietenpol and don't react so quickly to
turbulence. The Pietenpol is a pretty small and light airplane which doesn't
fly very fast. For its size it has a relatively large wing and is
short-coupled with fairly small fixed tail surfaces. As a result, it isn't
very stable in pitch and yaw. My Piper Vagabond has about the same wing span
as my Pietenpol and is very short-coupled. Its gross weight and wing loading
are comparable to the Piet figures, but its pitch and yaw stability are much
better---likely because of its generous (standard Cub) fixed tail surfaces.
It also flies faster (90 mph) with less tendency to "wallow". Nevertheless,
it still gives a wild ride in rough air.
Considering the age of the design, the ol' Pietenpol does pretty well and
likely it was not intended for extended X-country flying of the kind Steve,
Mike, Ted and others do. My hat is off to them regarding their perseverance
and endurance! Years ago, the late Peter Bowers dubbed it "the pasture
pilot's pride and joy", thus indicating its true mission.
Preferably, one should try to confine lightplane travel to the early morning
and evening hours in order to avoid punishing turbulence during the heat of
the day. Unfortunately, that isn't always possible.
Cheers,
Graham Hansen (CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | Two Landings Aborted |
Two summers ago there was a pot-luck fly in at an airport about 20 minutes
away. It was WINDY. A nice
day otherwise but windy. The wind was right down the runway at both
airports but it was that kind of wind
where the gusts are not rhythmic and steady but erratic and forceful every
few puffs. I had flown in similar conditions
so I headed out. What a bumpy ride over but heck, there were 10 to 12
planes on the ground and a nice crowd.
(the smart ones arrived by car) On the approach to this sod strip it was
evident that it was going to be one of those
things where if you timed it right you would touchdown during a nice steady
portion of the wind but otherwise you'd
either balloon up again or get slammed into the ground. After two really
valiant attempts to get the plane down safely
I headed home without landing. I came within about 10 feet maybe, but then
went around. Not embarrassed at all
actually, I was just disappointed I couldn't share the plane with others
and missed some good chow.
I got some razzing from a few of the guys who were there watching me try to
land but the guy who said " You did the
right thing if it didn't feel right." was the guy I consider the best pilot
of them all. Larry Minch is a long time tailwheel
pilot, CFI, etc. etc. etc.....kind of like Corky's Edwin. Lots of good
solid time under his belt and a common sense
pilot and instructor. Larry has flown my plane. He knows what it's like
in turbulence. The other guys arrived in
182's, Aeronca Sedan's Bellanca Decathlon's, and the like. It was not
worth all that hard work, money, time, and
sweat to crack it up over a pride issue.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
Subject: | Thanks for everyone baring their soul on the turbulence |
thing
Everyone who responded gave me a new confidence in flying during the midday. Think
Graham Hansen used the best word,,,"wallow". In the wind, the Piet has kind
of a lack of total stability. Not a single problem with just roll, or just
pitch, or just yaw,,,but a rolling around like you are hanging from a big string
from above. Hard to explain, but you guys have all described different,
but the same thing.
I still like the Piet in smooth air when it flies great with my hands on the front
of the cockpit behind the windshield. Love to put my fingertips out on the
right or left, and make the plane turn for me. Even put them both out like
little wings (like you used to do in the backseat of the '62 Chevy and your arm
would pull up or down), and tip them up or down to make the whole plane climb
or dive.
Wonder if the whole thing has anything to do with the fact that it is a parasol
wing? All the planes we are comparing it to have an enclose fuse like the J3
or Aeronca. With the same wingspan we would have more lift cause of the wing
in the middle that the others are lacking. could this be a trait of the parasol
wing?
The full fuse of the J3 has got to give more yaw stability with it's full sides
than sitting in a Piet shaped like a loaf of bread.
Oh well, I'm rambling.
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brants" <tmbrant(at)usfamily.net> |
Subject: | pilot seat and other ramblings... |
Wondering if anyone has ever had the experience of their pilot seat frame members
cracking. I'm not THAT fat (200 lbs)... I just installed the pilot seat last
week and I was sitting in it trying to get a feel for how the front seatback
would be layed out. Each time I sat, I heard a small creak. I thought maybe
it was the workbench but I figured I'd look around. Found out it was one of
the inner structural members of the seat. Didn't crack at the glue line (proof
that the glue is stronger than the wood) it split about 1/8" from the glue
line, right down the grain. What I think may be the cause is that there is so
little support for the wood at that point, other than the glue on the ply and
end grain.
So, If I remove the member, what's a good way to do it without ruining the seat.
I thought I might just pry the split section appart, apply some epoxy in the
crack and clamp together. Then add a plywood gusset beneath the back frame
member and the 4 other members, tying them all together. Any opions here?
Also, wondering if others are using T88 as filler on occassion where small gaps
in joints appear or where plywood gussets are held down. I've come accross a
few situations where the plywood, although I staple it down, leaves a small gap
(1/16" or so). Wondering if filling this void is acceptable.
And lastly, any people here fly around the West Virginia mountainous areas? I'm
planning a trip later in the summer and could use some feedback on my plans.
If so, contact me directly at tmbrant(at)usfamily.net
Thanks!
Tom Brant
Brooklyn Park, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
Subject: | Split Axle Springs |
I called Precision Punch & Plastic Co. this afternoon and ordered a pair
of XH56 Lamina die springs for the Piet. The price was $28.77 ea plus
$3.00 S&H and whatever UPS charges to ship them to me. The XH56 are the
heavy duty ones. They should be here mid next week or so. They will ship
them tommorrow.
Dennis Engelkenjohn
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Split Axle Springs |
>
>I looked in the archives per Kips suggestion and found:
>
> H56 Lamina is a brand and they are available at $17.25 ea. through:
>
> Precision Punch and Plastics
> Minnetonka, MN (800) 227-0690
>
> The springs are also available in extra heavy duty, : XH56 Lamina and
>are about twice as strong as the regular. Duane Woolsey recommended the
>heavier duty in June of '99, said his Piet sagged down too far with the
>weaker ones.
>
> The John Deere spring is Part # T143444 and cost was $12.00 ea.
>
>Dennis Engelkenjohn
Thanks Dennis, I knew my memory wasn't fuzzy on this one. Anyone know how
the John Deere springs compare to the heavy-duty Lamina springs?
BTW, what types of payment does PP&P accept?
Kip Gardner
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Split Axle Springs |
Kip & Beth Gardner wrote:
>--
>
>I used a Mastercard, never asked about anything else.
>
>Thanks Dennis, I knew my memory wasn't fuzzy on this one. Anyone know how
>the John Deere springs compare to the heavy-duty Lamina springs?
>
>BTW, what types of payment does PP&P accept?
>
>Kip Gardner
>
>North Canton, OH
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Chords, aero not music |
Chords on J-3's (and yes, they used a USA 35B airfoil) were 60". I think
the Aeronca was the same chord, but don't know for sure, nor do I know what
airfoil they used. I don't think it was a Clark Y because that has a flat
bottom and a Champ wing has a slight undercamber.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Daniel
Bailey
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chords, aero not music
>Would someone in the know, and that's most of you, list the chords and NACA
>numbers of the wings of the Cub and aeronca. Would be interesting to
compare
>the airfoils to the BHP FC10.
Don't know chords offhand, but Aeroncas, depending on model were NACA 4412
or Clark Y. Piper Cubs were USA 35B. Good resource for this stuff is:
http://www.aae.uiuc.edu/m-selig/ads/aircraft.html "The incomplete guide to
airfoil usage". Can't find my airfoil book, anybody got the ordinates for
these airfoils? Lift curve?
Dan Bailey
Paola, KS
(Building ribs)
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
Subject: | Split Axle Springs |
Dennis,
What is the rating of the XH56 springs, I believe die springs are rated at
the force in pounds needed to compress the spring 1 inch, mine are rated at
2400 lbs, but my gear is lower and wider than plans so I need a stronger
spring.
Also can anyone advise me about removing or painting over power coating? I
think my springs are power coated and they may not match the color scheme
planned.
Skip in Atlanta, just got my spokes back from Buchanan's and they look
great!
>I called Precision Punch & Plastic Co. this afternoon and ordered a pair
>of XH56 Lamina die springs for the Piet. The price was $28.77 ea plus
>$3.00 S&H and whatever UPS charges to ship them to me. The XH56 are the
>heavy duty ones. They should be here mid next week or so. They will ship
>them tommorrow.
>Dennis Engelkenjohn
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Split Axle Springs |
From: | "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten(at)Governair.com> |
Sandblasting was the way we did it in one shop I worked in.
Kent Hallsten
>
> Also can anyone advise me about removing or painting over
> power coating? I
> think my springs are power coated and they may not match the
> color scheme
> planned.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Subject: | Re: Split Axle Springs |
Hi Dennis: This post is probably too late since you have already spent
28 bucks for the die springs, but Wag Aero sells a die spring sock kit
for around $165. It has the springs, tubing, washers etc for a turnkey
weld it your self shock kit. Leon S. Hutch, Ks.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Split Axle Springs |
Gadd, Skip wrote:
>
>Dennis,
>What is the rating of the XH56 springs, I believe die springs are rated at
>the force in pounds needed to compress the spring 1 inch, mine are rated at
>2400 lbs, but my gear is lower and wider than plans so I need a stronger
>spring.
>
>
John, at Precision Punch and Plastics said they were rated at 1650
lbs to compress 1". I am going to use the plans except for mating
Taylorcraft axles to the landing gear because they were a gift and I
can't afford to turn them down.
In one of the older BPA Newsletters were the plans for a split axle
gear using the die springs. The tubing sizes were given and I went over
to Shapiro and bought all the tubing for the die spring shock set up for
$15 last saturday. Hope to have less than $135 total in gear when done.
Not that I am trying to skimp, but if you go to Shapiro in person on
saturday morning, the guys in the cutting rooms know you and make you a
great deal.
Dennis Engelkenjohn
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: pilot seat and other ramblings... |
From: | cat_designs(at)juno.com |
Tom,
I have sat in my seat numerous times, honestly I am test fitting not just pretending
I am flying and you have to make the airplane to get the fit just right,
and I have had no problems with it braking but I am a light weight (160 pounds),
I think you could split it apart and glue it back together if it fits together
well. If not take it out and put in a new piece. I found the best way to
remove things like this is to use a SHARP chisel, a 1" chisel is my preferred
weapon of choice. Use a small saw to to make a cut almost all the way through
the piece near both ends. You don't have to be to close say 1/4" away. Using
the chisel take the bulk of it off in large chunks but as you get closer the
the glue line slow down and take smaller slivers of wood. Now as you get close
to the ply sharpen your chisel again. Lay the back of the chisel flat on
the wood you are removing, at about a 20 degree angle. Now push it by hand don't
use a hammer. You should be taking little chunks of wood off, if not raise
the angle slightly. When you get down to nothing but glue you can usually scrape
it off with a single edge razor blade, I like the heavy duty ones for the
razor blade knifes used for cutting drywall. Also round the tips off using you
grinder so you don't gouge the plywood. This works great for cured T-88 and
I would guess it would work on other types of glue.
As for reinforcing the seat you might be able to put a support running left to
right under the 4 seat frame pieces at about mid span. support this on the ends
from the lower longerons. This may be a problem with hitting the control cables
though. Perhaps this one support was higher then the rest and took the full
load. If this true the new one should be ok because with the seat bottom installed
it will line up better.
Just my opinion, for what ever that's worth
Chris
Sacramento, CA
--- "Brants" wrote:
Wondering if anyone has ever had the experience of their pilot seat frame members
cracking. I'm not THAT fat (200 lbs)... I just installed the pilot seat last
week and I was sitting in it trying to get a feel for how the front seatback
would be layed out. Each time I sat, I heard a small creak. I thought maybe
it was the workbench but I figured I'd look around. Found out it was one of
the inner structural members of the seat. Didn't crack at the glue line (proof
that the glue is stronger than the wood) it split about 1/8" from the glue
line, right down the grain. What I think may be the cause is that there is so
little support for the wood at that point, other than the glue on the ply and
end grain.
So, If I remove the member, what's a good way to do it without ruining the seat.
I thought I might just pry the split section appart, apply some epoxy in the
crack and clamp together. Then add a plywood gusset beneath the back frame
member and the 4 other members, tying them all together. Any opions here?
Also, wondering if others are using T88 as filler on occassion where small gaps
in joints appear or where plywood gussets are held down. I've come accross a
few situations where the plywood, although I staple it down, leaves a small gap
(1/16" or so). Wondering if filling this void is acceptable.
And lastly, any people here fly around the West Virginia mountainous areas? I'm
planning a trip later in the summer and could use some feedback on my plans.
If so, contact me directly at tmbrant(at)usfamily.net
Thanks!
Tom Brant
Brooklyn Park, MN
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mel Martinez <melitonm(at)prodigy.net.mx> |
Subject: | Model A Engine Restoration |
Hi:
I've just received a Ford Model A engine ready to be rebuild.
I'd like to receive information about the rebuilding expec's, or a Web
link to see such information to install the engine in a Pietenpol.
Thanks
Mel Martinez
San Carlos, Sonora, Mxico.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Shawn Wolk" <shawnwolk(at)sprint.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Cross Country in a Piet |
The Piet I fly sounds just like what hjasd been written. A-65 powered 31' oversize
wingspan with steel tube fuselage and monocoupe tail.
cruise and flat out are basically the same. It climbs at 2125 rpm, flat out
is 2250 rpm at 71-73 mph, and throttling back to 2200 seems to make no difference
to the speed. Climb is 300-350 fpm and I've found best climb around 58-64
mph. It's wonderful to fly in the morning or evening, and during the thermals
of the day a handful. I recently went flying about one hour after a strong system
passed over with more cumulus forming. And found it to be a white knuckle,
attention getter. 200 ft altitude bounces both wats were the norm. But the flying
in smooth calm air makes it all worth it.
I also find that landing the Piet well is a challenge. If I come in without
power, the flair must be perfect. Otherwise it will slow down instantaneously
and drop. I usually fly final at 55-60 mph with 1500 rpm right to the flair. Once
I am level in the flair power is removed fast or slow depending on how high
the flair was and the stick pulled back. I have inadvertently done some nice
wheel landings by not pulling back on the stick fast enough and it just rolled
out on the mains.
Shawn Wolk
C-FRAZ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <HUBBLUGG(at)aol.com> |
Please see the attached file.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
HUBBLUGG(at)aol.com wrote-
>Please see the attached file.
This list doesn't accept attachments (good thing, too!) If you have
something in the way of photos, video clips, or other information to share,
post it to one of the many available sites for things like this and then
give us the URL and a description of what you've posted. I can pretty much
guarantee you that nobody in their right mind is going to willingly accept
an attachment with no description of what it is, nor will they go take a
look at a site without you indicating why they should want to go there.
Too many viruses and other bad stuff floating around out there these days.
Be specific, make it interesting, and make it easy for folks to find what
you're offering. Like this; an image of a Pietenpol fuselage in the framing
stage: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/pietfuse.jpg
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
Just received the latest issue of To Fly with a flyer for the SAA Gathering
June 13-14-15 at Urbana Illinois.
First on the list of forums is the Pietenpol forum Friday morning by Larry
Williams, I assume our own Piet list Larry Williams.
At this point the weather doesn't look VFR from Atlanta anyway the Skyhawk
will still be in annual, so I'll be driving. Looking forward to seeing
lister's and all other Pietenpol people there.
Skip in Atlanta, Map Quest says 10.5 hours from Urbana.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cat_designs(at)juno.com |
I was sitting here wondering about all the bolts we need to use to holding the
fittings, pulleys, and controls to the plane. Do you (I) use all drilled shank
bolts so I can safety wire them or should I use self locking bolts (the kind
with the plastic insert)? Is there certain places you should use one or the
other? It seems so simple until you need to actually buy some then that little
voice in the back of your head says "Are you sure?". So what kind of bolts
should I get? I know what length but I don't know what kind.
Thanks
Chris
Sacramento, CA
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cat_designs(at)juno.com |
I am in the process of installing the rudder pedal in the front cockpit. On the
plans they are tilted towards the back of the plane(if you are sitting in the
front seat the tops are tilted towards you when the rudder is centered). I
was testing them out before I drilled the holes and they seemed to be awkward
to use. Has anyone on the list used the front seat ruder pedals while flying
and do you have an opinion on the way they feel when flying? I think they would
be better if they were vertical or slanted away from you. Does this make any
sense it's still early out here in California and I was up late building.
Corky what does your Test Pilot think of them?
Chris
Sacramento, CA
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
If one parts being held with the bolt rotates then it needs to be fastened
with a drilled bolt shank and castle nut and a cotter pin or safety wire.
If the pieces are being held together do not rotate, then a nylon lock nut
is sufficient (firewall forward excluded in some cases)
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: <cat_designs(at)juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bolts
>
>
> I was sitting here wondering about all the bolts we need to use to holding
the fittings, pulleys, and controls to the plane. Do you (I) use all
drilled shank bolts so I can safety wire them or should I use self locking
bolts (the kind with the plastic insert)? Is there certain places you
should use one or the other? It seems so simple until you need to actually
buy some then that little voice in the back of your head says "Are you
sure?". So what kind of bolts should I get? I know what length but I don't
know what kind.
>
> Thanks
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedals |
Chris,
Mr Johnson, the test pilot, will probably pick up on your message and in time
will probably give you an answer.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Hey all
Check out the nice Model A engine in June, Sport Aviation Pg 68. Anybody know
what that costs?
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
A quick word of caution: Do not, under any circumstances, use safety wire in
a cotter pin application. A cotter pin is designed to resist the shearing
action of a castellated nut against a drilled bolt shank and safety wire is
not. Use safety wire in tension applications (like where it tends to pull a
nut tighter).
Mike Hardaway
on 6/6/03 8:02, DJ Vegh at aircamper(at)imagedv.com wrote:
>
> If one parts being held with the bolt rotates then it needs to be fastened
> with a drilled bolt shank and castle nut and a cotter pin or safety wire.
>
> If the pieces are being held together do not rotate, then a nylon lock nut
> is sufficient (firewall forward excluded in some cases)
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <cat_designs(at)juno.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bolts
>
>
>>
>>
>> I was sitting here wondering about all the bolts we need to use to holding
> the fittings, pulleys, and controls to the plane. Do you (I) use all
> drilled shank bolts so I can safety wire them or should I use self locking
> bolts (the kind with the plastic insert)? Is there certain places you
> should use one or the other? It seems so simple until you need to actually
> buy some then that little voice in the back of your head says "Are you
> sure?". So what kind of bolts should I get? I know what length but I don't
> know what kind.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Chris
>> Sacramento, CA
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
I should have been more clear.... I meant safety wire in a drilled bolt head to
prevent rotation.... thanks for the clarification
From: Mike
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bolts
A quick word of caution: Do not, under any circumstances, use safety wire in
a cotter pin application. A cotter pin is designed to resist the shearing
action of a castellated nut against a drilled bolt shank and safety wire is
not. Use safety wire in tension applications (like where it tends to pull a
nut tighter).
Mike Hardaway
on 6/6/03 8:02, DJ Vegh at aircamper(at)imagedv.com wrote:
>
> If one parts being held with the bolt rotates then it needs to be fastened
> with a drilled bolt shank and castle nut and a cotter pin or safety wire.
>
> If the pieces are being held together do not rotate, then a nylon lock nut
> is sufficient (firewall forward excluded in some cases)
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <cat_designs(at)juno.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bolts
>
>
>>
>>
>> I was sitting here wondering about all the bolts we need to use to holding
> the fittings, pulleys, and controls to the plane. Do you (I) use all
> drilled shank bolts so I can safety wire them or should I use self locking
> bolts (the kind with the plastic insert)? Is there certain places you
> should use one or the other? It seems so simple until you need to actually
> buy some then that little voice in the back of your head says "Are you
> sure?". So what kind of bolts should I get? I know what length but I don't
> know what kind.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Chris
>> Sacramento, CA
>>
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "rambog(at)erols.com" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
If you slanted them away, or even vertical, you would have to move them
back substantially from the firewall or they would hit the firewall before
you got to full rudder travel. I kind of like the original plans which
show the pedals hanging down from the cross brace at the top of the
firewall. I have asked numerous people, though, and cannot get an answer
why Bernie moved away from this system, pluses or minuses. I am just now
trying to figure out how I am going to mount my front pedals. If you come
up with any good ideas, I'd like to hear.
Gene
Original Message:
-----------------
From: cat_designs(at)juno.com
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:58:36 GMT
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals
I am in the process of installing the rudder pedal in the front cockpit.
On the plans they are tilted towards the back of the plane(if you are
sitting in the front seat the tops are tilted towards you when the rudder
is centered). I was testing them out before I drilled the holes and they
seemed to be awkward to use. Has anyone on the list used the front seat
ruder pedals while flying and do you have an opinion on the way they feel
when flying? I think they would be better if they were vertical or slanted
away from you. Does this make any sense it's still early out here in
California and I was up late building.
Corky what does your Test Pilot think of them?
Chris
Sacramento, CA
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cat_designs(at)juno.com |
Gene
One thing I know I am going to due is use tubing to connect them to the rudder
bar. I think it is a much simpler installation and a more elegant looking solution.
The only problem I see with hanging them off the firewall is the firewall
is only 1/6th inch ply whereas the floor is 1/4 inch. Maybe too many firewalls
were getting broken in use. I had forgotten about this being different
then the F&G plans. Guess I will try it out tonight and see how it works.
You are correct about having to move the mounting lugs farther away from the firewall
if I slant them differently then the plans. It should not matter where
I attach them as long as I leave enough room for them to travel. One other thing,
the rudder pedal also seem to wide for my tastes. But then again I don't
plan on sitting up front very often.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
--- "rambog(at)erols.com" wrote:
If you slanted them away, or even vertical, you would have to move them
back substantially from the firewall or they would hit the firewall before
you got to full rudder travel. I kind of like the original plans which
show the pedals hanging down from the cross brace at the top of the
firewall. I have asked numerous people, though, and cannot get an answer
why Bernie moved away from this system, pluses or minuses. I am just now
trying to figure out how I am going to mount my front pedals. If you come
up with any good ideas, I'd like to hear.
Gene
Original Message:
-----------------
From: cat_designs(at)juno.com
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:58:36 GMT
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals
I am in the process of installing the rudder pedal in the front cockpit.
On the plans they are tilted towards the back of the plane(if you are
sitting in the front seat the tops are tilted towards you when the rudder
is centered). I was testing them out before I drilled the holes and they
seemed to be awkward to use. Has anyone on the list used the front seat
ruder pedals while flying and do you have an opinion on the way they feel
when flying? I think they would be better if they were vertical or slanted
away from you. Does this make any sense it's still early out here in
California and I was up late building.
Corky what does your Test Pilot think of them?
Chris
Sacramento, CA
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cat_designs(at)juno.com |
Oh yah I had forgotten about the cotter pins. If I understand this right wire
for the head, pins for the castle nuts and no self locking on moving parts. Wouldn't
you only use drilled heads when you are NOT using a nut you can secure?
Such as a tapped hole or blind nut.
Thanks
Chris
Sacramento, CA
--- "DJ Vegh" wrote:
I should have been more clear.... I meant safety wire in a drilled bolt head to
prevent rotation.... thanks for the clarification
From: Mike
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bolts
A quick word of caution: Do not, under any circumstances, use safety wire in
a cotter pin application. A cotter pin is designed to resist the shearing
action of a castellated nut against a drilled bolt shank and safety wire is
not. Use safety wire in tension applications (like where it tends to pull a
nut tighter).
Mike Hardaway
on 6/6/03 8:02, DJ Vegh at aircamper(at)imagedv.com wrote:
>
> If one parts being held with the bolt rotates then it needs to be fastened
> with a drilled bolt shank and castle nut and a cotter pin or safety wire.
>
> If the pieces are being held together do not rotate, then a nylon lock nut
> is sufficient (firewall forward excluded in some cases)
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <cat_designs(at)juno.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bolts
>
>
>>
>>
>> I was sitting here wondering about all the bolts we need to use to holding
> the fittings, pulleys, and controls to the plane. Do you (I) use all
> drilled shank bolts so I can safety wire them or should I use self locking
> bolts (the kind with the plastic insert)? Is there certain places you
> should use one or the other? It seems so simple until you need to actually
> buy some then that little voice in the back of your head says "Are you
> sure?". So what kind of bolts should I get? I know what length but I don't
> know what kind.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Chris
>> Sacramento, CA
>>
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedals |
It does not bolt to the firewall, but to the oak cross member, much more
strength than the 1/4" ply floor, so that cannot be the reason.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: <cat_designs(at)juno.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals
>
>
> Gene
>
> One thing I know I am going to due is use tubing to connect them to the
rudder bar. I think it is a much simpler installation and a more elegant
looking solution. The only problem I see with hanging them off the firewall
is the firewall is only 1/6th inch ply whereas the floor is 1/4 inch. Maybe
too many firewalls were getting broken in use. I had forgotten about this
being different then the F&G plans. Guess I will try it out tonight and see
how it works.
>
> You are correct about having to move the mounting lugs farther away from
the firewall if I slant them differently then the plans. It should not
matter where I attach them as long as I leave enough room for them to
travel. One other thing, the rudder pedal also seem to wide for my tastes.
But then again I don't plan on sitting up front very often.
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
> --- "rambog(at)erols.com" wrote:
>
>
> If you slanted them away, or even vertical, you would have to move them
> back substantially from the firewall or they would hit the firewall before
> you got to full rudder travel. I kind of like the original plans which
> show the pedals hanging down from the cross brace at the top of the
> firewall. I have asked numerous people, though, and cannot get an answer
> why Bernie moved away from this system, pluses or minuses. I am just now
> trying to figure out how I am going to mount my front pedals. If you come
> up with any good ideas, I'd like to hear.
>
> Gene
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: cat_designs(at)juno.com
> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:58:36 GMT
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals
>
>
> I am in the process of installing the rudder pedal in the front cockpit.
> On the plans they are tilted towards the back of the plane(if you are
> sitting in the front seat the tops are tilted towards you when the rudder
> is centered). I was testing them out before I drilled the holes and they
> seemed to be awkward to use. Has anyone on the list used the front seat
> ruder pedals while flying and do you have an opinion on the way they feel
> when flying? I think they would be better if they were vertical or
slanted
> away from you. Does this make any sense it's still early out here in
> California and I was up late building.
>
> Corky what does your Test Pilot think of them?
>
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
>
>
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedals |
Gene,
May I make a small statement on the subject of rudder pedals.
Place the rudder bar forward for the front pilot. Put your pedals with Cessna
style brake cyl for rear pilot. Connect the two with 3/8 4130 tubing and
connect the rudder horn to the pedals with cable. Taut fit without return springs.
This is the fab I'm using for Repiet.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
On Mine (long fuselage version) I installed the front rudder pedals such
that they bottom out on the firewall at full rudder deflection, saving me
from having to add a stop. I used 5/16" tubing to connect them to the
rudder bar so no return springs are needed and at neutral rudder the front
rudder pedals are just about perpendicular to the floorboard. Feels fine in
my basement. We'll see how it does in the air this fall.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rambog(at)erols.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals
If you slanted them away, or even vertical, you would have to move them
back substantially from the firewall or they would hit the firewall before
you got to full rudder travel. I kind of like the original plans which
show the pedals hanging down from the cross brace at the top of the
firewall. I have asked numerous people, though, and cannot get an answer
why Bernie moved away from this system, pluses or minuses. I am just now
trying to figure out how I am going to mount my front pedals. If you come
up with any good ideas, I'd like to hear.
Gene
Original Message:
-----------------
From: cat_designs(at)juno.com
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:58:36 GMT
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals
I am in the process of installing the rudder pedal in the front cockpit.
On the plans they are tilted towards the back of the plane(if you are
sitting in the front seat the tops are tilted towards you when the rudder
is centered). I was testing them out before I drilled the holes and they
seemed to be awkward to use. Has anyone on the list used the front seat
ruder pedals while flying and do you have an opinion on the way they feel
when flying? I think they would be better if they were vertical or slanted
away from you. Does this make any sense it's still early out here in
California and I was up late building.
Corky what does your Test Pilot think of them?
Chris
Sacramento, CA
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
There seems to be a concern about the knobby motorcycle tires I have on my
piet.
I know most aircraft have smooth tires and it lets you slide on the grass.
But those same
smooth tires don't slide much on asphalt runways. Maybe later I will opt for
smoothys but
I think that there shouldn't be a problem with the ones I have now. I don't
plan on doing a
lot of heavy cross wind landings for a while. My early flights will be in
calm weather. And if
I do get a cross wind, I'll land like it was asphalt. I thought I would
throw this out and get a
feel for the groups opinions. Thanks as always.
Carl
check out my webpage at http://members.core.com/skycarl
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Re: enough rain already |
Hey Corky, you know it has rained wayyyy too much in 'Ol Virginia when I was
working on the Piet in my hangar today listening to the thundering rainfall
(all day) and I looked down and about a 4" crayfish was crawling across the
floor at my feet.
I'm gonna convert the Piet fuselage into an ark, might get some use out of
it.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: knobby tires |
Carl
the pics of the torque tube looks almost like the
parts were brazed, not so, I hope.
Del
--- Carl Loar wrote:
>
>
> There seems to be a concern about the knobby
> motorcycle tires I have on my
> piet.
> I know most aircraft have smooth tires and it lets
> you slide on the grass.
> But those same
> smooth tires don't slide much on asphalt runways.
> Maybe later I will opt for
> smoothys but
> I think that there shouldn't be a problem with the
> ones I have now. I don't
> plan on doing a
> lot of heavy cross wind landings for a while. My
> early flights will be in
> calm weather. And if
> I do get a cross wind, I'll land like it was
> asphalt. I thought I would
> throw this out and get a
> feel for the groups opinions. Thanks as always.
> Carl
> check out my webpage at
> http://members.core.com/skycarl
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
>
Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Subject: | Re: knobby tires |
Del,,, Originally,, the control tubes were brazed, then I redid them after
learning that was a no no. That was another pain in the butt lesson I
learned but the knowledge never stops on here. So what do you think
about the tire deal?
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "del magsam" <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: knobby tires
>
> Carl
> the pics of the torque tube looks almost like the
> parts were brazed, not so, I hope.
> Del
> --- Carl Loar wrote:
> >
> >
> > There seems to be a concern about the knobby
> > motorcycle tires I have on my
> > piet.
> > I know most aircraft have smooth tires and it lets
> > you slide on the grass.
> > But those same
> > smooth tires don't slide much on asphalt runways.
> > Maybe later I will opt for
> > smoothys but
> > I think that there shouldn't be a problem with the
> > ones I have now. I don't
> > plan on doing a
> > lot of heavy cross wind landings for a while. My
> > early flights will be in
> > calm weather. And if
> > I do get a cross wind, I'll land like it was
> > asphalt. I thought I would
> > throw this out and get a
> > feel for the groups opinions. Thanks as always.
> > Carl
> > check out my webpage at
> > http://members.core.com/skycarl
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > latest messages.
> > List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
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> Del-New Richmond, Wi
> "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: knobby tires |
I don't know the answer to that for sure, I can't
think that there would be a problem, my sonex has
treaded go cart or garden tracter style wheels on it.
and it works fine
Del
--- Carl Loar wrote:
>
>
> Del,,, Originally,, the control tubes were brazed,
> then I redid them after
> learning that was a no no. That was another pain in
> the butt lesson I
> learned but the knowledge never stops on here. So
> what do you think
> about the tire deal?
> Carl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "del magsam" <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: knobby tires
>
>
>
> >
> > Carl
> > the pics of the torque tube looks almost like the
> > parts were brazed, not so, I hope.
> > Del
> > --- Carl Loar wrote:
> Loar"
> > >
> > >
> > > There seems to be a concern about the knobby
> > > motorcycle tires I have on my
> > > piet.
> > > I know most aircraft have smooth tires and it
> lets
> > > you slide on the grass.
> > > But those same
> > > smooth tires don't slide much on asphalt
> runways.
> > > Maybe later I will opt for
> > > smoothys but
> > > I think that there shouldn't be a problem with
> the
> > > ones I have now. I don't
> > > plan on doing a
> > > lot of heavy cross wind landings for a while. My
> > > early flights will be in
> > > calm weather. And if
> > > I do get a cross wind, I'll land like it was
> > > asphalt. I thought I would
> > > throw this out and get a
> > > feel for the groups opinions. Thanks as always.
> > > Carl
> > > check out my webpage at
> > > http://members.core.com/skycarl
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Contributions
> > > any other
> > > Forums.
> > >
> > > latest messages.
> > > List members.
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> >
> > =====
> > Del-New Richmond, Wi
> > "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
> >
> > __________________________________
> >
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=====
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: knobby tires |
From: | chris a Tracy <cat_designs(at)juno.com> |
I don't see why knobby tires would grip any different then treaded or
smooth. Actually knobby tires grip less on asphalt then smooth tires do.
When was the last time you saw a street bike with knobby tires. You
could always cut off the knobs with a razor blade and smooth them down
with a disk sander to make smooth tires.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | chris a Tracy <cat_designs(at)juno.com> |
I think it needs to be said again so no one else has to learn the hard
way like Carl did.
If you use 4130 steel it is prone to cracking if you braze it. Do not
braze 4130. Yes I know bike frames are built out of 4130 and they are
brazed with a lot of success but if they brake you will most likely not
be killed. Ever book on aircraft welding I found says not to braze 4130.
These same books also say you should not weld a joint that has
previously been brazed. The braze material will contaminate the molten
metal and make a weaker weld. Now, if you use 1020 steel like the plans
call for you can braze it just fine and it will be good joint. There is
nothing wrong with using 1020 steel to build an airplane as long as the
plane was designed to use it. A lot of the antique airplane are built out
of it. The only part that BHP calls out as needing to be made out of
4130, that I can find, is the rudder bar. Remember, even though most
people are using 4130 for everything IT IS A CHANGE FROM THE PLANS so you
need to due your homework on how this change will affect your building
process. And my study of this change is to weld 4130 in a draft free
area using a welding method that heats up an area of approximately one
half to one inches on each side of the weld bringing the temperature up
slowly and after welding you should allow the material to cool slowly in
a draft free area. Knowing this I choose to gas weld all my parts and
reheat the weld as well as an area around the welds to release any built
in stress. I do all me welding in my garage with the doors shut to keep
the drafts down. I'm not an expert on any of this so you should do your
May 15, 2003 - June 07, 2003
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-de