Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dg
July 01, 2003 - July 21, 2003
> indicated the engine weighs approximately 236 pounds. and questions in
hand.
>Mississippi Outlaw
_
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
| Subject: | piet powerplant question |
John,
I'll check it out at Brodhead this year, heading that way in just 3 weeks.
Skip
>I am told that the Warner has a stop on the throttle to prevent full power.
I'm not sure if
>it's true or not, but it sounds reasonable. No doubt it gives a better TBO
as well...
>John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Young <wry22(at)drexel.edu> |
I have just started building my aircamper and am trying to decide what
motor to use. I like several aspects of the corvair, but have concerns
about carb ice problems I have heard of people having with them. Does
anyone have any thoughts on this, am I making a mountain out of a mole
hill?
Thanks, Will Young
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: piet powerplant question |
Brad,
Welcome to the list... Hope you find the list helpfull. You will find
lots of friends from all over the world, and also lots help here.
Is a little strange: Your last name Outlaw, your server the faa.gov
Are you planning to fly it as an ultralite? :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
Guadalajara, Mexico.
--- brad.outlaw(at)faa.gov wrote:
>
> hello all,
> this is my first message after being subscribed to the list. i just
> recently got BHP plans and have been avidly reading the piet list. i
> have
> made contact with corky in la and have purchased mike cuy's tape. the
> list
> provides lots of great discussion on interesting subjects. i would
> like to
> throw a question out there and get your thoughts on my delimma. I
> already
> have a Lyc 0-290 D2 engine with only 715 hours. I would like to use
> this
> engine on my piet but am concerned about the weight. I could
> certainly sell
> it and get a TCM flat motor if necessary . does anyone know if this
> engine
> has been used on a piet previously? checking the TCDS indicated the
> engine
> weighs approximately 236 pounds. corky, i'll see you on the 19th
> camera and
> questions in hand. Mike, i really enjoyed the tape. i am sure i will
> go
> back to it for the many questions that will certainly arise. I am
> going to
> griffin, Ga this weekend to pick up the engine, some spruce and
> plywood.
> anyone on the list in that area?
> and yes, my last name IS outlaw!
>
> Mississippi Outlaw
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | piet powerplant question |
From last two post, I will advise you to watch closely your VNE in
cruise when it is flying.
A pilot here has a Stintson A8 (factory with a 145hp engine), he uses
it as a bush plane with a 6 cyl Aztec twin plane engine (230 hp?) he
is always monitoring the speed. Takes off as an ultralight: In 60 ft @
4,997 ft/ASL.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Good luck with your project and finish it as soon as posible,
--- John Ford wrote:
>
>
> Brad and Skip,
>
> I am told that the Warner has a stop on the throttle to prevent full
> power. I'm not sure if it's true or not, but it sounds reasonable.
> No doubt it gives a better TBO as well...
>
> John
>
> John Ford
> jford(at)indstate.edu
> 812-237-8542
>
>
> >>> Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov Tuesday, July 01, 2003 8:01:07 AM >>>
>
>
> Brad,
> Welcome to the list.
>
> The Piet is one of the few planes where a heavy engine could be
> considered
> an advantage, as it helps with the tail heavy situation. The original
> plans
> were drawn using a 250lb plus Model A engine. Lowel Frank usually
> brings a
> Piet to Brodhead with a 145 HP Warner radial, which has more horse
> power and
> must weigh more than your engine. I think 135 HP is overkill for the
> Piet
> but the weight is ok and the based on the above example the aircraft
> should
> be able to handle the power, I have been told that Lowel's plane
> climbs REAL
> good.
>
> I am on the NE side of Atlanta, not exactly on your way to Griffin,
> but you
> are welcome to stop by.
>
> Skip
>
> > does anyone know if this engine has been used on a piet previously?
> checking the TCDS
> > indicated the engine weighs approximately 236 pounds. and questions
> in
> hand.
> >Mississippi Outlaw
>
>
> _
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten(at)Governair.com> |
Hi Will,
Please join us on this list for your Corvair information. http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html
And as far as carb ice, well, I think the one incident with William Wynne is what
you have heard. I don't think the Corvair will have icing problems any different
than other engines. Building carb heat into the project is a must have,
whether you fly a Ford A or Continental, or Lycoming. If you go with a Corvair
you will not be disappointed. They are smooth, powerful, and will be more
than enough in a Piet.
Check out Williams site at www.flycorvair.com where you can read about carb icing.
Kent Hallsten
A slow Pietenpol builder with a 1964 Corvair 110
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Young [mailto:wry22(at)drexel.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:05 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair motors
>
>
>
> I have just started building my aircamper and am trying to
> decide what
> motor to use. I like several aspects of the corvair, but
> have concerns
> about carb ice problems I have heard of people having with
> them. Does
> anyone have any thoughts on this, am I making a mountain out
> of a mole
> hill?
>
> Thanks, Will Young
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | piet powerplant question |
Been there. When the temperatures get down into the 30's, my Cub cruises at
5-10 mph below red line. You bet I keep my eye on it.
...but what a rush on the climb out.
Jim Ash
>
> From last two post, I will advise you to watch closely your VNE in
>cruise when it is flying.
>
>A pilot here has a Stintson A8 (factory with a 145hp engine), he uses
>it as a bush plane with a 6 cyl Aztec twin plane engine (230 hp?) he
>is always monitoring the speed. Takes off as an ultralight: In 60 ft @
>4,997 ft/ASL.
>
>Saludos
>Gary Gower
...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Hi DJ. The Piet plans show the front cabanes to be 1" longer then the
rear cabanes. I don't know what the measures in degrees. Good luck with
that c-section. I think I have more labor in the center section then the
rest of my plane added together, with still more to do on it. I wished I
could have had the space to build the one piece wing. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doyle K. Combs" <dcombs(at)ltex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: piet powerplant question |
Kip and Beth
I have a Franklin 100 hp that weighs 250 lbs. I have calculated the weight
of BP' Ford engine and the radiator and feel that I am on the same
plane....at least that is my deduction. I don't think that we are overweight
but I do think we need to watch the CG very carefully.
Doyle Combs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kip & Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: piet powerplant question
>
> >
> >hello all,
> >this is my first message after being subscribed to the list. i just
> >recently got BHP plans and have been avidly reading the piet list. i have
> >made contact with corky in la and have purchased mike cuy's tape. the
list
> >provides lots of great discussion on interesting subjects. i would like
to
> >throw a question out there and get your thoughts on my delimma. I already
> >have a Lyc 0-290 D2 engine with only 715 hours. I would like to use this
> >engine on my piet but am concerned about the weight. I could certainly
sell
> >it and get a TCM flat motor if necessary . does anyone know if this
engine
> >has been used on a piet previously? checking the TCDS indicated the
engine
> >weighs approximately 236 pounds. corky, i'll see you on the 19th camera
and
> >questions in hand. Mike, i really enjoyed the tape. i am sure i will go
> >back to it for the many questions that will certainly arise. I am going
to
> >griffin, Ga this weekend to pick up the engine, some spruce and plywood.
> >anyone on the list in that area?
> >and yes, my last name IS outlaw!
> >
> >Mississippi Outlaw
>
> Hi Brad,
>
> 236 lbs. is about what a Corvair weighs with an electric starter
installed,
> so I don't think your weight is a problem, but I think an O-290 would be a
> lot more power than you'd need. I'll leave to others with more experience
> to discuss the ramifications of that issue.
>
> Welcome to the list - are your ancestors from North Carolina by any
chance?
> there are a lot of Outlaws living in NE NC and SE Va.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kip Gardner (exiled in Yankee-land) :).
>
> North Canton, OH
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | C.G., Fuel, & Long Legs |
In a message dated 7/1/03 2:38:51 AM Central Daylight Time,
ashcan(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< Chuck -
Pardon my ignorance, but I'm just getting into this game. What is your
range for CG? Being within 1/2" of the rear CG might make me a little
cautious, unless the range is really narrow to begin with. Does the
presence or absence of fuel move it around much?
I'd be curious to hear your opinions of aircraft handling with assorted
ballasts to pull the CG forward some. One of the reasons I ask is that I
had a larger and heavier engine put in my Cub, which came with a metal prop
instead of a wood prop (11 lb difference , if I recall), so now I'm nudging
the forward limit. I notice the difference in the flair; my first few
landings were splat landings until I adjusted my habits.
Jim Ash
P.S. I like your tag line. >>
Jim,
B.H.P. stated the aft C.G. limits to be 1/4 chord as the forward limit (25%),
and 1/3 of the chord as the aft limit, which is 33 1/3%. I believe he
determined this, by flying experiments. This makes the forward C.G. limit to be
15"
aft of the leading edge, and 20" aft of the leading edge as the aft limit.
I've never heard of the aft limit of any Hershey bar wing being more than 30%
of the chord. The airfoil is a 'Reflexed Airfoil', or 'Undercambered Airfoil',
meaning the bottom surface is somewhat concave. It's like flying with a
notch of flaps always in, making gobs of lift and drag. This causes the plane
to
have a tremendous amount of negative pitching moment (nose down tendency). To
offset this, the plans call for the wing to have 2 of positive incidence
(it's on the page with the fuselage build up - done by making the front cabane
struts to be 1" longer than the aft cabane struts), and the stab to be 0. I
believe this negative pitching moment is how the Pietenpol gets away with such
an aft C.G. limit so far back.
As far as the fuel changing the C.G., my most aft loading configuration
would be with Zero Fuel, and 205 lb. Pilot, which puts the C.G. to be right on
the aft limit (I hope I never have to land - out of fuel !!). With but 3 gal.
of fuel in the cowling tank (Minimum Fuel), and the wing tank empty, the C.G.
is 19.52" aft of the Leading Edge. With the cowling tank full (10.5 gal.),
wing tank empty, the C.G. is 18.38" aft of the Leading Edge - my Most Forward
loading configuration. With the cowl tank full, wing tank full (9.5 in the
wing), 120 lbs. of fuel - Max Fuel C.G. is 18.60" aft of the Leading edge, with
20 gal. of fuel onboard. This should give me about a 3 1/2 hour range !!
Someday soon, I'm going to check out 'er Long Legs!!! Naturally, with Max
Fuel, the stall speed will go up a little, but as far as the handling
characteristics, I really can't tell much difference in the air, although I did
make a
couple of those 'splat' landings - embarrassing, but a Pietenpol is a tough
airplane !! With more experience I'm sure I'll hone my skills. I practiced
landings yesterday for 1.3 hrs. With a full belly (Max Fuel), she seems to
wallow around on the ground somewhat. I have room to carry a 157 lb. passenger,
max fuel, and still stay under my 1050 lb. gross weight limit.
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita, KS
Leaving for Brodhead on the 23rd !! I'll post my flight plan soon, and see
if any Piet Pals are on the way. One stop I'm planning on is our Hallowed
Ground, in Cherry Grove MN.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com> |
A question (or two) for anyone who has used the 6061-T6 streamline lift
struts from Skytek.
Is the "small" strut (2.44''x1.00") ok to use or do we have to up the size
to the "large" strut seeing that it is 6061 and not steel, as in the plans ?
Have you used the same size for the lift struts and the cabanes ?
Hope to meet plenty of Piet builders at Brodhead (and ask a lot more
questions).
Rod Wooller
Chidlow
Australia
Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to
http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com> |
A couple of questions for any builders who have used the 6061-T6 streamline
struts from Skytek.
Is it ok to use the "small" strut (2.44"x1.00") or do we have to up the size
to the larger 3.13"x1.25" strut due to it being 6061 and not 2 7/8"x7/8"
steel as in the plans ?
Have you used the same size strut for the lift struts and the cabanes ?
Looking forward to meeting a lot of Piet builders at Brodhead (and asking a
lot more questions-you bet!).
Rod Wooller
Chidlow
Australia
Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to
http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | engine vibration gone----prop tracking was the problem |
!
group-- After balancing my prop on the workbench with some varnish here and
there, (it wasn't really out of balance at all.) I reinstalled the prop
according to the manufacturer's specs and torqued the 3/8" prop bolts to
200" lbs. +/- 25" lbs. To make it easier I divided 200 by 12" and came up
with 16.6 foot-lbs. and went to work. The # 2 prop blade was about 3/16"
behind the track of the # 1 prop blade. (Tony B. and other books/web sites
show a simple way to check your prop tracking.) It took quite a few
tightening and loosening of my prop bolts to slip folded pieces of brown
paper between the front face of the prop hub and the aft face of the prop
to get the blades to track within a 1/16" of each other but it was well
worth it. The vibration I was experiencing in flight is 95% gone and I
can understand the other 5% as the engine is doing work.
PS---thanks for the good CG numbers Chuck Gantzer---nice to have another 65
Cont. Piet guy that is 200 lbs. as well flying on fumes and still in the CG
range:)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
Will,
I would also like to hear more about icing problems that list members
have experienced. I suspect that icing problems are related more to the
carb and the induction system than to the engine itself. I had a Cessna
150 (O-200 Cont.) for several years. During humid weather I had to keep
a close watch on RPM while cruising at 75%. RPM's would slowly drop
requiring application of carb heat to bring things back to normal. As I
remember this would happen in weather as warm as in the 70's.
If you have further concerns about icing, you might consider the
Aero-Carb by Monnet. This type of carb is more resistant to icing. I am
considering using one on my Corvair powered Piet along with a good carb
heat box.
Dick Hartwig
From: William Young <wry22(at)drexel.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair motors
I have just started building my aircamper and am trying to decide what
motor to use. I like several aspects of the corvair, but have concerns
about carb ice problems I have heard of people having with them. Does
anyone have any thoughts on this, am I making a mountain out of a mole
hill?
Thanks, Will Young
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken" <av8or(at)infionline.net> |
I had a total engine failure (well not quite total but enough I couldn't
maintain altitude) in a C-150. This was flight with a pre-solo student.
Engine RPMs dropped. Carb heat applied RPMs came back. Carb heat removed
and after about a min RPMs went back down. I then added Carb heat and
figuring that I was ok continued the training flight which turned out to be
a big mistake because we were doing ground ref maneuvers. After a short
time the RPMs started dropping again. Found a nice little wet RC field
(Didn't know it was until the next day) and nose the plane over.
Question what do you do for carb ice if the heat is already on.
Ken
av8or(at)infionline.net
kring(at)mountainviewdogs.com
kring(at)irisweb.net
www.irisweb.net
www.mountainviewdogs.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
rhartwig11(at)juno.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Carb icing
Will,
I would also like to hear more about icing problems that list members
have experienced. I suspect that icing problems are related more to the
carb and the induction system than to the engine itself. I had a Cessna
150 (O-200 Cont.) for several years. During humid weather I had to keep
a close watch on RPM while cruising at 75%. RPM's would slowly drop
requiring application of carb heat to bring things back to normal. As I
remember this would happen in weather as warm as in the 70's.
If you have further concerns about icing, you might consider the
Aero-Carb by Monnet. This type of carb is more resistant to icing. I am
considering using one on my Corvair powered Piet along with a good carb
heat box.
Dick Hartwig
From: William Young <wry22(at)drexel.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair motors
I have just started building my aircamper and am trying to decide what
motor to use. I like several aspects of the corvair, but have concerns
about carb ice problems I have heard of people having with them. Does
anyone have any thoughts on this, am I making a mountain out of a mole
hill?
Thanks, Will Young
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skytek struts |
I am using the skytek struts. I'm using the smaller size for the cabanes
and the larger for ift struts.
I did the math and figured that the smaller struts would be sufficient for
lift struts but I wanted an extra factor of safety so I went witht he larger
struts.
For the cabanes I inserted .75" x 1" 2024 T3 aluminum bar about 5" long into
the strut to terminate the ends see the photos here
http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-30-03.htm
For the lift strutsI will instert 1x1 4130 solid steel bar about 7" long
into the lower ends so that I can tap and thread a hole for lift strut
forks.
They are probably a tad heavier than 4130 streamline but you can get all the
strut material for cabanes, lift and jury struts for about $290 and no
welding is required.
They make some nice jury strut streamline tube as well...
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts
>
> A question (or two) for anyone who has used the 6061-T6 streamline lift
> struts from Skytek.
>
> Is the "small" strut (2.44''x1.00") ok to use or do we have to up the size
> to the "large" strut seeing that it is 6061 and not steel, as in the plans
?
>
> Have you used the same size for the lift struts and the cabanes ?
>
> Hope to meet plenty of Piet builders at Brodhead (and ask a lot more
> questions).
>
> Rod Wooller
> Chidlow
> Australia
>
> Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to
> http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doyle K. Combs" <dcombs(at)ltex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Skytek struts |
DJ ...where did you purchase the skytech strut material? Thanks
Doyle Combs
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts
>
> I am using the skytek struts. I'm using the smaller size for the cabanes
> and the larger for ift struts.
>
> I did the math and figured that the smaller struts would be sufficient for
> lift struts but I wanted an extra factor of safety so I went witht he
larger
> struts.
>
> For the cabanes I inserted .75" x 1" 2024 T3 aluminum bar about 5" long
into
> the strut to terminate the ends see the photos here
>
> http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-30-03.htm
>
> For the lift strutsI will instert 1x1 4130 solid steel bar about 7" long
> into the lower ends so that I can tap and thread a hole for lift strut
> forks.
>
> They are probably a tad heavier than 4130 streamline but you can get all
the
> strut material for cabanes, lift and jury struts for about $290 and no
> welding is required.
>
> They make some nice jury strut streamline tube as well...
>
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts
>
>
>
> >
> > A question (or two) for anyone who has used the 6061-T6 streamline lift
> > struts from Skytek.
> >
> > Is the "small" strut (2.44''x1.00") ok to use or do we have to up the
size
> > to the "large" strut seeing that it is 6061 and not steel, as in the
plans
> ?
> >
> > Have you used the same size for the lift struts and the cabanes ?
> >
> > Hope to meet plenty of Piet builders at Brodhead (and ask a lot more
> > questions).
> >
> > Rod Wooller
> > Chidlow
> > Australia
> >
> > Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to
> > http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <jack(at)personnelincorporated.com> |
| Subject: | New guy looking for advice |
Hi all,
A brief background may be helpful. A couple years ago I considered building
a Piet. Instead I started an RV 8, yes a metal plane! It is getting pretty
expensive with 2 kids in college (one in Hawaii, of all places). I love the
building process but with the 8 its completion seems a long way off. I have
always loved the Piet. I have BP's plans and lots of articles on it. On my
way to OSH this year I was thinking of stopping at Brodhead, that Saturday
or Sunday (26th or 27th). Do I have the date's right? Would there be a
place to park my pop-up camper? And I hate to even ask, but if the
situation was right, could a guy beg a short ride to see if I would even fit
in one?
Thanks in advance!
Jack
Des Moines, IA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skytek struts |
http://www.sky-tek.com/
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Doyle K. Combs
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts
DJ ...where did you purchase the skytech strut material? Thanks
Doyle Combs
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
To:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts
>
> I am using the skytek struts. I'm using the smaller size for the cabanes
> and the larger for ift struts.
>
> I did the math and figured that the smaller struts would be sufficient for
> lift struts but I wanted an extra factor of safety so I went witht he
larger
> struts.
>
> For the cabanes I inserted .75" x 1" 2024 T3 aluminum bar about 5" long
into
> the strut to terminate the ends see the photos here
>
> http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-30-03.htm
>
> For the lift strutsI will instert 1x1 4130 solid steel bar about 7" long
> into the lower ends so that I can tap and thread a hole for lift strut
> forks.
>
> They are probably a tad heavier than 4130 streamline but you can get all
the
> strut material for cabanes, lift and jury struts for about $290 and no
> welding is required.
>
> They make some nice jury strut streamline tube as well...
>
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts
>
>
>
> >
> > A question (or two) for anyone who has used the 6061-T6 streamline lift
> > struts from Skytek.
> >
> > Is the "small" strut (2.44''x1.00") ok to use or do we have to up the
size
> > to the "large" strut seeing that it is 6061 and not steel, as in the
plans
> ?
> >
> > Have you used the same size for the lift struts and the cabanes ?
> >
> > Hope to meet plenty of Piet builders at Brodhead (and ask a lot more
> > questions).
> >
> > Rod Wooller
> > Chidlow
> > Australia
> >
> > Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to
> > http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp
> >
> >
>
>
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Let's get started |
OK, I've thought about this off and on for three years, and a lot again in
the last few weeks.
So where do I start? Obviously picking up a set of plans, to begin with. I
was expecting to get them from Don Pietenpol, but I've seen a few different
suppliers of plans and I'd like to know the difference between them. Is
there any supplemental documentation I should consider, such as tech
briefs, or a newsletter? A construction manual would be ideal, but I don't
expect that. I'm a first-time builder, but I can machine, weld (steel,
aluminum, stainless, 4130 tubing, cast iron, ...), form sheet metal,
sand-cast, and even stitch, but I'm a little rusty there.
I have a bunch of other questions, as far as suppliers and construction
sequence, but let's keep the discussion simple for now. We'll get there.
Jim Ash
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Let's get started |
| From: | "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten(at)Governair.com> |
Please buy from Don Pietenpol, it was his Grandfather who did all the hard work.
I consider the other plan suppliers to be .... well , I won't say it.
Don also has a construction manual, but it may not be much in the way of help.
However it is interesting to have. (I have it.) You will get plenty more information
on building from the archives here at Matronics.
The newsletter is nice to get, but I don't have the web address for you.
Kent
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Ash [mailto:ashcan(at)earthlink.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 12:50 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
>
>
>
>
> OK, I've thought about this off and on for three years, and a
> lot again in
> the last few weeks.
>
> So where do I start? Obviously picking up a set of plans, to
> begin with.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
| Subject: | Let's get started |
Jim,
You'll probably get 50 answers, all different, but right now it looks like
I'm the first.
1) Yes, get the plans first. To clear up a confusion, there are actually
two planes we talk about on the list--the Pietenpol and the GN-1. They only
look alike, but there are a lot of differences in the details. I got the
Pietenpol plans because I wanted a 1929 airplane, not a 1950's airplane,
designed to use "cheap" Piper cub parts and to look old. I'm showing a
bias, but that was my thinking. Better still, get both--they're cheaper
than any other part of the project. While you're at it, get the Flying and
Glider Manual Reprint issue that published the Pietenpol--it's different in
a lot of details, but helps illustrate the way that BHP was thinking. There
is a builder's manual available from Don Pietenpol--not particularly useful,
but there.
Expect to stare at the plans a lot after you get them. There's a lot on
them, there's a lot that isn't obvious, and there are a few things that you
have to figure out yourself.
2) Get a copy of the Aircraft Spruce and Supplies catalog. It's big, free,
and includes most of the stuff that we use. Get the Wicks one too, and
stare at them for a while. You may not order anything from either, ever,
but they're useful references. Pick out some pieces to start making--I did
the wing ribs first, then the tail. Then again, I started from a
woodworking perspective.
3) Start showing up at your local EAA chapter. They'll start taking you
seriously when you start bringing in plans and parts.
4) Remember that this isn't a kit. You'll probably spend more time
figuring out what to do next than actually doing it, especially after you
get the basic framing done.
5) You don't say what part of the country you're in, but there's probably
someone on the list within a hundred miles or so. Visit them for
inspiration.
Have fun--it's a great project!
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Ash [mailto:ashcan(at)earthlink.net]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
OK, I've thought about this off and on for three years, and a lot again in
the last few weeks.
So where do I start? Obviously picking up a set of plans, to begin with. I
was expecting to get them from Don Pietenpol, but I've seen a few different
suppliers of plans and I'd like to know the difference between them. Is
there any supplemental documentation I should consider, such as tech
briefs, or a newsletter? A construction manual would be ideal, but I don't
expect that. I'm a first-time builder, but I can machine, weld (steel,
aluminum, stainless, 4130 tubing, cast iron, ...), form sheet metal,
sand-cast, and even stitch, but I'm a little rusty there.
I have a bunch of other questions, as far as suppliers and construction
sequence, but let's keep the discussion simple for now. We'll get there.
Jim Ash
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Let's get started |
Jim,
I agree completely with Gene. This is not a kitplane, and as such will
require considerable thought to complete it. One of the things I really
enjoy about Pietenpols is to look at toher people's projects and see the
various different ways they have come up with to solve the same problems.
I've seen Gene's project in San Diego and he is doing an outstanding job on
it. I've seen Frank Pavliga's and Mike Cuy's completed airplanes and they
are beautiful, and I have learned something form all of them. If you go to
Brodhead, take a camera with a lot of film and take pictures of every little
detail you can think of, such as how the jury struts attach to the wing and
the lift struts - jury struts aren't even shown on the plans so you can find
lots of variation here. Little details of how landing gear fittings are
made, or windshields or any of a number of other components. No two
Pietenpols are alike - even those built by B H Pietenpol himself.
By all means buy the plans and study them. Check out the archives of this
discussion group (nearly everything that can raise a question has been
debated back and forth here - sometimes with a definitive answer!). Ask
questions. Think about it. Ask more questions. Try to plan how you are
going to inspect your plane after it is built. Provide access to everything
that will need inspecting. Such details aren't necessarily in the plans.
Above all, enjoy the process.
Good lucjk,
Jack Phillips
In rainy North Carolina, where Bill's remains are dumping on us today.
NX899JP - tail covered, wings covered, centersection and fuselage are next.
Hope to fly it this fall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hubbard,
Eugene
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
Jim,
You'll probably get 50 answers, all different, but right now it looks like
I'm the first.
1) Yes, get the plans first. To clear up a confusion, there are actually
two planes we talk about on the list--the Pietenpol and the GN-1. They only
look alike, but there are a lot of differences in the details. I got the
Pietenpol plans because I wanted a 1929 airplane, not a 1950's airplane,
designed to use "cheap" Piper cub parts and to look old. I'm showing a
bias, but that was my thinking. Better still, get both--they're cheaper
than any other part of the project. While you're at it, get the Flying and
Glider Manual Reprint issue that published the Pietenpol--it's different in
a lot of details, but helps illustrate the way that BHP was thinking. There
is a builder's manual available from Don Pietenpol--not particularly useful,
but there.
Expect to stare at the plans a lot after you get them. There's a lot on
them, there's a lot that isn't obvious, and there are a few things that you
have to figure out yourself.
2) Get a copy of the Aircraft Spruce and Supplies catalog. It's big, free,
and includes most of the stuff that we use. Get the Wicks one too, and
stare at them for a while. You may not order anything from either, ever,
but they're useful references. Pick out some pieces to start making--I did
the wing ribs first, then the tail. Then again, I started from a
woodworking perspective.
3) Start showing up at your local EAA chapter. They'll start taking you
seriously when you start bringing in plans and parts.
4) Remember that this isn't a kit. You'll probably spend more time
figuring out what to do next than actually doing it, especially after you
get the basic framing done.
5) You don't say what part of the country you're in, but there's probably
someone on the list within a hundred miles or so. Visit them for
inspiration.
Have fun--it's a great project!
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Ash [mailto:ashcan(at)earthlink.net]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
OK, I've thought about this off and on for three years, and a lot again in
the last few weeks.
So where do I start? Obviously picking up a set of plans, to begin with. I
was expecting to get them from Don Pietenpol, but I've seen a few different
suppliers of plans and I'd like to know the difference between them. Is
there any supplemental documentation I should consider, such as tech
briefs, or a newsletter? A construction manual would be ideal, but I don't
expect that. I'm a first-time builder, but I can machine, weld (steel,
aluminum, stainless, 4130 tubing, cast iron, ...), form sheet metal,
sand-cast, and even stitch, but I'm a little rusty there.
I have a bunch of other questions, as far as suppliers and construction
sequence, but let's keep the discussion simple for now. We'll get there.
Jim Ash
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Let's get started |
I know the Pietenpol AirCamper and the GN-1 are distinctly separate
aircraft, but I don't know the details why. Anybody?
Jim Ash
>
>Jim,
>
>You'll probably get 50 answers, all different, but right now it looks like
>I'm the first.
>
>1) Yes, get the plans first. To clear up a confusion, there are actually
>two planes we talk about on the list--the Pietenpol and the GN-1. They only
>look alike, but there are a lot of differences in the details. I got the
...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
| Subject: | Let's get started |
John Grega designed the GN-1 to use Piper Cub components because they were
cheap at the time. They aren't anymore. You'll have to ask DJ or someone
who's building one for the advantages. For me it was essentially an
arbitrary decision, and since everyone calls them Pietenpols, it took me a
while to figure out why some of the planes were so different.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Ash [mailto:ashcan(at)earthlink.net]
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
I know the Pietenpol AirCamper and the GN-1 are distinctly separate
aircraft, but I don't know the details why. Anybody?
Jim Ash
>
>Jim,
>
>You'll probably get 50 answers, all different, but right now it looks like
>I'm the first.
>
>1) Yes, get the plans first. To clear up a confusion, there are actually
>two planes we talk about on the list--the Pietenpol and the GN-1. They
only
>look alike, but there are a lot of differences in the details. I got the
...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Let's get started - GN-1 details |
here it is in a nutshell....
the GN-1 uses off the shelf Cub, Champ, T-Craft, Baby Ace, etc parts... the
landing gear is Cub. The fuel tank and cowl are Cub, control stick is
Champ, aux tanks are T-Craft, aileron horns are Baby Ace, and the list goes
on.
Back in the day when the late Grega designed the bird those parts were
plentiful and cheap. not the case nowdays.
The other main diference is in the wings and cabane assembly. The wings use
larger spars and space them closer together at 31" a la Piper Cub. You
could in fact use a shortened Piper Cub wing if you want because the cabanes
are at the proper dimension.
The spars are also taller and 1" thick. essentially the GN-1 wing is
stronger than the Piet wing but at a penalty of being heavier (not much
though)
The fuse is narrower so as to be able to use 4x8 sheet of ply and get the
most yeild from it..... but alot of GN-1 builders make it as wide or wider
than a Piet (myself included). The GN-1 has ply sheeting that goes from
firewall to tailpost. This is massive overkill. I chose to do the Piet
method of ending the sheat aft of the rear seat and then I used oversize
gussets past that.
GN-1's are known to be heavier than Piets by anywhere from 75-150lb. I
knew this in advance and am doing my best to make a GN-1/ Piet hybrid to
keep my bird light. As of now my entire fuse with center cabanes, combing,
control stick, wheels brakes and tail feathers weighs in at about 200lb.
About 20lb heavier than I was hoping for but you can imagine how heavy it
would be if I didn;t take weight precautions.
I REALLY like the GN-1 design. It's a bit beefier than a Piet but the extra
strength is appealing to me. It'll take about +5 -2 G's (according to my
unqualified engineering calculations) What I like most is the fact that I
could use the Cub gear, Cub drag/anti drag wires, and other off the shelf
stuff. The rest of the metal parts I had laser cut and bent.
Do your homework and I say buy the GN-1 plans AND the Piet plans no matter
what version you build. Study and read the plans over and over again...
it;s amazing how you find new stuff every time you look at them. Although
I'm not sure how hard it will be to buy GN-1 plans now that Grega has passed
last November. If you do not have any luck getting in touch with his family
let me know. I could "bootleg" a set for you but I really would like you to
try to contact his family first.... somehow.
if you get a chance check my aircamper site.... it shows complete log
entries from day one of construction with tons of photos. the address is
below in my signature.
I'm about 85% complete with my fuse now and will begin wing construction
this winter. Hoping to have this sucker in the air October 2005. :-)
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
>
> I know the Pietenpol AirCamper and the GN-1 are distinctly separate
> aircraft, but I don't know the details why. Anybody?
>
> Jim Ash
>
> >
> >Jim,
> >
> >You'll probably get 50 answers, all different, but right now it looks
like
> >I'm the first.
> >
> >1) Yes, get the plans first. To clear up a confusion, there are
actually
> >two planes we talk about on the list--the Pietenpol and the GN-1. They
only
> >look alike, but there are a lot of differences in the details. I got the
> ...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | ol-List:Stress analysis |
I'm new to the list and have looked at the archive and couldn't find
anything. Does anyone have a copy of a stress analysis that has been done
on the wood or steel tube Pietenpol? I understand one was done before the
first one was built in England but have come up dry on finding someone with
a copy. I'm an engineer and really don't want to repeat something that is
already done. The drawings look like a Pietenpol could be used as a
huricane tracker (put a sandwich bag over the mag?) but I would really like
to see where the weakest links are (and the strongest).
Hank Jarrett
Two Taylorcrafts, but want something open cockpit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Let's get started |
>
>Jim,
>
>I agree completely with Gene. This is not a kitplane, and as such will
>require considerable thought to complete it. One of the things I really
>enjoy about Pietenpols is to look at toher people's projects and see the
>various different ways they have come up with to solve the same problems.
>I've seen Gene's project in San Diego and he is doing an outstanding job on
>it. I've seen Frank Pavliga's and Mike Cuy's completed airplanes and they
>are beautiful, and I have learned something form all of them. If you go to
>Brodhead, take a camera with a lot of film and take pictures of every little
>detail you can think of, such as how the jury struts attach to the wing and
>the lift struts - jury struts aren't even shown on the plans so you can find
>lots of variation here. Little details of how landing gear fittings are
>made, or windshields or any of a number of other components. No two
>Pietenpols are alike - even those built by B H Pietenpol himself.
Jim,
About the only thing I can add at this point is to keep in mind that this
can turn out to be a very long term on-again/off-again kind of project, so
be prepared. It's been nearly 5 years since I decided I was going to build
one of these things & I'm betting on at least 5 more to go - but no real
deadline. I'm kind of in a slump on mine right now - have been most of the
winter/spring - life happens (especially with an active 3-1/2 year old) &
it's easy to not find time for the plane when the honeydo list is a mile
long. Mostly for the past 6 months I've been going downstairs and just
staring at it & trying to visualize how to get certain things done. What
I'm saying is don't get discouraged, enjoy the process at whatever pace it
happens, persevere, and eventually you will have a finished plane as a lot
of the guys on this list will tell you.
Also, being involved with an active EAA chapter is a tremendous morale
booster as far as I'm concerned.
Cheers,
Kip Gardner
(did I mention ythe Taylorcraft flyin this weekend?)
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Let's get started |
I meant to mention:
I'm in northern New Hampshire, formally Whitefield, which is about 15 nm
due west of Mount Washington. The local economy is pretty sad, so you don't
see a lot of discretionary money going toward airplanes. We just moved here
a year and a half ago, and I've spent a lot of time doing home fixup stuff
and working out of town, so I'm just finding my way around.
About the closest EAA Chapter I found is #740. Their meetings are maybe an
hour and a half's drive from here, so it isn't right next door. I've been a
national member for 15(?) years, and have joined local chapters where we
lived here and there. The New Hampshire move is our dream shot, so I expect
we'll be here for a while.
Somewhere I've got Aircraft Spruce's and Wicks' catalogs, but they're
probably not current. I've been to 3 of the Sportair workshops, but not the
fabric one yet.
I've built things from plans before, so I know what you mean as far as not
being a kit, but I appreciate the heads up anyway. I fully expect to spend
a month of evenings scrutinizing the plans and adding things up to my
satisfaction before I make a move. I tend to be pretty picky (more than one
person has told me my preflights take longer than anybody they've ever
known), but that's what keeps me alive and kickin'. As long as I can
formulate a plan of action in my head, I'll be OK. Getting started is the
worst for me.
DJ - I went through your web site a week ago, including your log details
and the intake manifold milling. Are you planning on using the jugs in the
photo? Lon Wall (Corvair Underground) used to sell what he called a
Superkit for engine rebuilding. If I opt for the Corvair engine, I'll
probably get one of his kits.
Jim Ash
>
>Jim,
>
>You'll probably get 50 answers, all different, but right now it looks like
>I'm the first.
>
>1) Yes, get the plans first. To clear up a confusion, there are actually
>two planes we talk about on the list--the Pietenpol and the GN-1. They only
>look alike, but there are a lot of differences in the details. I got the
>Pietenpol plans because I wanted a 1929 airplane, not a 1950's airplane,
>designed to use "cheap" Piper cub parts and to look old. I'm showing a
>bias, but that was my thinking. Better still, get both--they're cheaper
>than any other part of the project. While you're at it, get the Flying and
>Glider Manual Reprint issue that published the Pietenpol--it's different in
>a lot of details, but helps illustrate the way that BHP was thinking. There
>is a builder's manual available from Don Pietenpol--not particularly useful,
>but there.
>
>Expect to stare at the plans a lot after you get them. There's a lot on
>them, there's a lot that isn't obvious, and there are a few things that you
>have to figure out yourself.
>
>2) Get a copy of the Aircraft Spruce and Supplies catalog. It's big, free,
>and includes most of the stuff that we use. Get the Wicks one too, and
>stare at them for a while. You may not order anything from either, ever,
>but they're useful references. Pick out some pieces to start making--I did
>the wing ribs first, then the tail. Then again, I started from a
>woodworking perspective.
>
>3) Start showing up at your local EAA chapter. They'll start taking you
>seriously when you start bringing in plans and parts.
>
>4) Remember that this isn't a kit. You'll probably spend more time
>figuring out what to do next than actually doing it, especially after you
>get the basic framing done.
>
>5) You don't say what part of the country you're in, but there's probably
>someone on the list within a hundred miles or so. Visit them for
>inspiration.
>
>Have fun--it's a great project!
>
>Gene Hubbard
>San Diego
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Ash [mailto:ashcan(at)earthlink.net]
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
>
>
>OK, I've thought about this off and on for three years, and a lot again in
>the last few weeks.
>
>So where do I start? Obviously picking up a set of plans, to begin with. I
>was expecting to get them from Don Pietenpol, but I've seen a few different
>suppliers of plans and I'd like to know the difference between them. Is
>there any supplemental documentation I should consider, such as tech
>briefs, or a newsletter? A construction manual would be ideal, but I don't
>expect that. I'm a first-time builder, but I can machine, weld (steel,
>aluminum, stainless, 4130 tubing, cast iron, ...), form sheet metal,
>sand-cast, and even stitch, but I'm a little rusty there.
>
>I have a bunch of other questions, as far as suppliers and construction
>sequence, but let's keep the discussion simple for now. We'll get there.
>
>Jim Ash
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Let's get started - GN-1 details |
>Do your homework and I say buy the GN-1 plans AND the Piet plans no matter
>what version you build. Study and read the plans over and over again...
>it;s amazing how you find new stuff every time you look at them. Although
>I'm not sure how hard it will be to buy GN-1 plans now that Grega has passed
>last November. If you do not have any luck getting in touch with his family
>let me know. I could "bootleg" a set for you but I really would like you to
>try to contact his family first.... somehow.
Jim,
Buy the original Pietenpol plans from Don P. - there are others out there
selling unauthorized versions, some guy in Iowa comes to mind, but I
personally consider that theft.
The Grega plans continue to be advertised in the back of Experimenter - it
looks like they are being sold by John's son.
Here's the address:
R.J. Grega
P.O. Box 391086
Solon, OH 44139
Price is $50
BTW, there's been a partially complete GN-1 for sale in Va. Beach, VA for
some time now - a local guy was interested & the seller sent him photos. It
looked pretty decent & fairly well along (fuse, ribs, tail feathers, some
fittings & an old junk Franklin). Price was ~$700. It was listed in the
'for sale' section of Grant Maclaren's old BPA website. Don't remember the
guy's name, but the phone # was area code 757. It is not identified in the
ad as a GN-1, but that's clearly what it is.
The seller is not the builder - he said he bought it off a widow & he knows
nothing about it's history.
Cheers,
Kip Gardner (I DID mention the T-craft fly-in this weekend, didn't I?) ;)
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | tenpol-List:Stress analysis |
Hank, if you're an engineer I'd say do it yourself. I did it for mine, but
it wouldn't do anyone else any good because of the changes I've made
(centersection 6" wider than plans, fuselage 1" wider than plans, etc.)
What I found for my airplane with my changes was it was good for about 5 g's
ultimate, so with a safety factor, it's a good 3.2 g normal category
aircraft, but no more. I would not recommend any but the mildest aerobatics
(the occasional wingover) in it.
Jack Phillips, PE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of hjarrett
Subject: Pietenpol-List:Stress analysis
I'm new to the list and have looked at the archive and couldn't find
anything. Does anyone have a copy of a stress analysis that has been done
on the wood or steel tube Pietenpol? I understand one was done before the
first one was built in England but have come up dry on finding someone with
a copy. I'm an engineer and really don't want to repeat something that is
already done. The drawings look like a Pietenpol could be used as a
huricane tracker (put a sandwich bag over the mag?) but I would really like
to see where the weakest links are (and the strongest).
Hank Jarrett
Two Taylorcrafts, but want something open cockpit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Let's get started, group builds? |
Try and find someone else in your area that is interested in building a
Pietenpol. It's amazing how much easier it is to stay enthused if there is
someone to talk, think and work with. You keep each other inspired and all
the tooling gets two (at least) uses. You will also make a LOT less
mistakes and end up with better workmanship.
Hank J (Taylorcraft flyer that wishes he was going to Ohio this weekend)
> Jim,
>
> About the only thing I can add at this point is to keep in mind that this
> can turn out to be a very long term on-again/off-again kind of project, so
> be prepared. It's been nearly 5 years since I decided I was going to build
> one of these things & I'm betting on at least 5 more to go - but no real
> deadline. I'm kind of in a slump on mine right now - have been most of the
> winter/spring - life happens (especially with an active 3-1/2 year old) &
> it's easy to not find time for the plane when the honeydo list is a mile
> long. Mostly for the past 6 months I've been going downstairs and just
> staring at it & trying to visualize how to get certain things done. What
> I'm saying is don't get discouraged, enjoy the process at whatever pace it
> happens, persevere, and eventually you will have a finished plane as a lot
> of the guys on this list will tell you.
>
> Also, being involved with an active EAA chapter is a tremendous morale
> booster as far as I'm concerned.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> (did I mention ythe Taylorcraft flyin this weekend?)
>
> North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Va. Beach Piet for sale, was Let's get started - GN-1 |
details
I live in Va Beach and would be willing to look at the plane if anyone is
interested in it. If it turns out to be a friend of mine I have an
associate that does appraisals that could give an unbiased opinion if
needed. If I'm biased I'll say so and my comments are worth what you pay
(nothing, the pay that is).
Hank J
>
> BTW, there's been a partially complete GN-1 for sale in Va. Beach, VA for
> some time now - a local guy was interested & the seller sent him photos.
It
> looked pretty decent & fairly well along (fuse, ribs, tail feathers, some
> fittings & an old junk Franklin). Price was ~$700. It was listed in the
> 'for sale' section of Grant Maclaren's old BPA website. Don't remember the
> guy's name, but the phone # was area code 757. It is not identified in the
> ad as a GN-1, but that's clearly what it is.
>
> The seller is not the builder - he said he bought it off a widow & he
knows
> nothing about it's history.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kip Gardner (I DID mention the T-craft fly-in this weekend, didn't I?) ;)
>
>
> North Canton, OH
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Let's get started |
snip
> DJ - I went through your web site a week ago, including your log details
> and the intake manifold milling. Are you planning on using the jugs in the
> photo? Lon Wall (Corvair Underground) used to sell what he called a
> Superkit for engine rebuilding. If I opt for the Corvair engine, I'll
> probably get one of his kits.
>
> Jim Ash
I will be using those jugs. I have cleaned them up and they are waiting to
get milled .020 over. Make sure if you go with Corvair power that you get
William Wynnes conversion manual at flycorvair.com. It outlines everything
you need to do for a good Aero'Vair.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Let's get started |
It was Don P.'s dad that did all the work. andrew p.'s grandfather.
cb
----- Original Message -----
From: Kent Hallsten <KHallsten(at)Governair.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
>
> Please buy from Don Pietenpol, it was his Grandfather who did all the hard
work. I consider the other plan suppliers to be .... well , I won't say
it.
>
> Don also has a construction manual, but it may not be much in the way of
help. However it is interesting to have. (I have it.) You will get plenty
more information on building from the archives here at Matronics.
>
> The newsletter is nice to get, but I don't have the web address for you.
>
> Kent
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim Ash [mailto:ashcan(at)earthlink.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 12:50 PM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > OK, I've thought about this off and on for three years, and a
> > lot again in
> > the last few weeks.
> >
> > So where do I start? Obviously picking up a set of plans, to
> > begin with.
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Let's get started |
I second that, and add this;
This is a builders project. You must love
your tools and enjoy working with them.
Treat it as an interesting journey, or a
quest, if you like, every step fascinating
in itself. And when it's done your
accomplishment will be such as only a
few can know.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kip & Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
>
> >
> >Jim,
> >
> >I agree completely with Gene. This is not a kitplane, and as such will
> >require considerable thought to complete it. One of the things I really
> >enjoy about Pietenpols is to look at toher people's projects and see the
> >various different ways they have come up with to solve the same problems.
> >I've seen Gene's project in San Diego and he is doing an outstanding job
on
> >it. I've seen Frank Pavliga's and Mike Cuy's completed airplanes and
they
> >are beautiful, and I have learned something form all of them. If you go
to
> >Brodhead, take a camera with a lot of film and take pictures of every
little
> >detail you can think of, such as how the jury struts attach to the wing
and
> >the lift struts - jury struts aren't even shown on the plans so you can
find
> >lots of variation here. Little details of how landing gear fittings are
> >made, or windshields or any of a number of other components. No two
> >Pietenpols are alike - even those built by B H Pietenpol himself.
>
>
> Jim,
>
> About the only thing I can add at this point is to keep in mind that this
> can turn out to be a very long term on-again/off-again kind of project, so
> be prepared. It's been nearly 5 years since I decided I was going to build
> one of these things & I'm betting on at least 5 more to go - but no real
> deadline. I'm kind of in a slump on mine right now - have been most of the
> winter/spring - life happens (especially with an active 3-1/2 year old) &
> it's easy to not find time for the plane when the honeydo list is a mile
> long. Mostly for the past 6 months I've been going downstairs and just
> staring at it & trying to visualize how to get certain things done. What
> I'm saying is don't get discouraged, enjoy the process at whatever pace it
> happens, persevere, and eventually you will have a finished plane as a lot
> of the guys on this list will tell you.
>
> Also, being involved with an active EAA chapter is a tremendous morale
> booster as far as I'm concerned.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> (did I mention ythe Taylorcraft flyin this weekend?)
>
> North Canton, OH
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Let's get started - GN-1 details |
I'm more inclined to the Piet than the GN-1. I'm not sure I could work with
somebody else's partially-built airplane. I'd end up inspecting and
re-doing a bunch, I suspect.
I suspected the Piet plans were lifted from the originals; it would be my
preference to deal with Don for that reason.
... and you did mention the T-Craft fly-in. Did I mention the out-of-state
50th wedding anniversary party on Saturday for 3 hours that we'll end up
driving Friday and Sunday to make?
Jim Ash
>
>
>
> >Do your homework and I say buy the GN-1 plans AND the Piet plans no matter
> >what version you build. Study and read the plans over and over again...
> >it;s amazing how you find new stuff every time you look at them. Although
> >I'm not sure how hard it will be to buy GN-1 plans now that Grega has passed
> >last November. If you do not have any luck getting in touch with his family
> >let me know. I could "bootleg" a set for you but I really would like you to
> >try to contact his family first.... somehow.
>
>Jim,
>
>Buy the original Pietenpol plans from Don P. - there are others out there
>selling unauthorized versions, some guy in Iowa comes to mind, but I
>personally consider that theft.
>
>The Grega plans continue to be advertised in the back of Experimenter - it
>looks like they are being sold by John's son.
>
>Here's the address:
>
>R.J. Grega
>P.O. Box 391086
>Solon, OH 44139
>
>Price is $50
>
>BTW, there's been a partially complete GN-1 for sale in Va. Beach, VA for
>some time now - a local guy was interested & the seller sent him photos. It
>looked pretty decent & fairly well along (fuse, ribs, tail feathers, some
>fittings & an old junk Franklin). Price was ~$700. It was listed in the
>'for sale' section of Grant Maclaren's old BPA website. Don't remember the
>guy's name, but the phone # was area code 757. It is not identified in the
>ad as a GN-1, but that's clearly what it is.
>
>The seller is not the builder - he said he bought it off a widow & he knows
>nothing about it's history.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Kip Gardner (I DID mention the T-craft fly-in this weekend, didn't I?) ;)
>
>
>North Canton, OH
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Let's get started, group builds? |
Good suggestion. I've done it before with other things, but finding
somebody that flies around here is a tall order, left alone somebody from
the low and slow crowd. There's a similar article in the lastest Sport
Aviation about a group that did it with a bunch of Neuport 11's. Besides
the motivational stuff, they had volume buying power, too.
Jim
>
>
>Try and find someone else in your area that is interested in building a
>Pietenpol. It's amazing how much easier it is to stay enthused if there is
>someone to talk, think and work with. You keep each other inspired and all
>the tooling gets two (at least) uses. You will also make a LOT less
>mistakes and end up with better workmanship.
>Hank J (Taylorcraft flyer that wishes he was going to Ohio this weekend)
>
> > Jim,
> >
> > About the only thing I can add at this point is to keep in mind that this
> > can turn out to be a very long term on-again/off-again kind of project, so
> > be prepared. It's been nearly 5 years since I decided I was going to build
> > one of these things & I'm betting on at least 5 more to go - but no real
> > deadline. I'm kind of in a slump on mine right now - have been most of the
> > winter/spring - life happens (especially with an active 3-1/2 year old) &
> > it's easy to not find time for the plane when the honeydo list is a mile
> > long. Mostly for the past 6 months I've been going downstairs and just
> > staring at it & trying to visualize how to get certain things done. What
> > I'm saying is don't get discouraged, enjoy the process at whatever pace it
> > happens, persevere, and eventually you will have a finished plane as a lot
> > of the guys on this list will tell you.
> >
> > Also, being involved with an active EAA chapter is a tremendous morale
> > booster as far as I'm concerned.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Kip Gardner
> >
> > (did I mention ythe Taylorcraft flyin this weekend?)
> >
> > North Canton, OH
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Let's get started |
DJ -
In the course of fooling with Corvairs, I've seen a bunch of really amazing
stuff done with/to these engines in the name of rebuilding, by people who
should have stuck with small block Chevys. By now, anytime you look at a
Corvair, you need to assume the engine has been rebuilt, possibly by
someone who was clueless.
The reason I asked about the jugs was initially the surface rust, but it's
a common thing for a 'rebuilder' to forget the bottom baffles (I've done
it, but I'll pull the head off again and to put them back on - I've never
run one without them). Without them, the bottom of the jugs can get
overheated and crystallized. You'll see some discoloration inside on the
bottom which will clue you in. Don't bother with them if they've got it.
I bought William's book so long ago I don't even remember it any more, but
it's right here on the shelf. I run into him from time to time; I saw him
at Sun 'n Fun this year. I saw his Piet at Sun 'n Fun in '99 (I think),
with the cool valve covers.
Jim Ash
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Let's get started |
I'm currently in the process of putting up a shop building. Once it's up,
my air compressor, welder, drill press, wood lathe, metal lathe, joiner, a
host of smaller power and hand tools, my steel pile, my foundry sands and
supplies, 5 Corvair engines, and a handful of Corvair transaxles will all
be going out there. I expect I'll be putting together a set of Chapter 1000
tables, and if there's any room left, I'll treat myself to that used
Bridgeport J-head milling machine I've wanted for years.
Of course, I hate tools.......
Jim Ash
>
>I second that, and add this;
>
>This is a builders project. You must love
>your tools and enjoy working with them.
>Treat it as an interesting journey, or a
>quest, if you like, every step fascinating
>in itself. And when it's done your
>accomplishment will be such as only a
>few can know.
>
>Clif
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Kip & Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
>To:
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
>
>
>
> >
>
> > >
> > >Jim,
> > >
> > >I agree completely with Gene. This is not a kitplane, and as such will
> > >require considerable thought to complete it. One of the things I really
> > >enjoy about Pietenpols is to look at toher people's projects and see the
> > >various different ways they have come up with to solve the same problems.
> > >I've seen Gene's project in San Diego and he is doing an outstanding job
>on
> > >it. I've seen Frank Pavliga's and Mike Cuy's completed airplanes and
>they
> > >are beautiful, and I have learned something form all of them. If you go
>to
> > >Brodhead, take a camera with a lot of film and take pictures of every
>little
> > >detail you can think of, such as how the jury struts attach to the wing
>and
> > >the lift struts - jury struts aren't even shown on the plans so you can
>find
> > >lots of variation here. Little details of how landing gear fittings are
> > >made, or windshields or any of a number of other components. No two
> > >Pietenpols are alike - even those built by B H Pietenpol himself.
> >
> >
> > Jim,
> >
> > About the only thing I can add at this point is to keep in mind that this
> > can turn out to be a very long term on-again/off-again kind of project, so
> > be prepared. It's been nearly 5 years since I decided I was going to build
> > one of these things & I'm betting on at least 5 more to go - but no real
> > deadline. I'm kind of in a slump on mine right now - have been most of the
> > winter/spring - life happens (especially with an active 3-1/2 year old) &
> > it's easy to not find time for the plane when the honeydo list is a mile
> > long. Mostly for the past 6 months I've been going downstairs and just
> > staring at it & trying to visualize how to get certain things done. What
> > I'm saying is don't get discouraged, enjoy the process at whatever pace it
> > happens, persevere, and eventually you will have a finished plane as a lot
> > of the guys on this list will tell you.
> >
> > Also, being involved with an active EAA chapter is a tremendous morale
> > booster as far as I'm concerned.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Kip Gardner
> >
> > (did I mention ythe Taylorcraft flyin this weekend?)
> >
> > North Canton, OH
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
| Subject: | New guy looking for advice |
Jack,
Yes, the dates are correct. No problem with the camper, they ask for a one
time donation, which covers camping as long as you care to stay.
There will be more Piets there on Saturday as people start leaving early
Sunday. Talk to the Piet pilots who are there, some hop rides and some
don't.
Skip
-->
>On my way to OSH this year I was thinking of stopping at Brodhead, that
Saturday or Sunday
>(26th or 27th). Do I have the date's right? Would there be a place to
park my pop-up camper? >And I hate to even ask, but if the situation was
right, could a guy beg a short ride to see if >I would even fit in one?
Thanks in advance! Jack Des Moines, IA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John_Duprey(at)vmed.org |
| Subject: | Let's get started |
07/03/2003 08:14:32 AM
Hi Jim: There are a few Builders that I know of in New England. Richard
DeCosta in Maine, Bob Thiessel (SP?) and Myself down here in South Eastern
Mass. Yes there are several suppliers of the plans for the Pietenpol , I
reccomend you buy from the Pietenpol family, they are the rightfull owners
and other plans are just photocopies of plans.
Best Wishes
John Duprey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Let's get started |
So, Jim, are there any places for rent near you?
Mike
Jim Ash wrote:
>
> I'm currently in the process of putting up a shop building. Once it's up,
> my air compressor, welder, drill press, wood lathe, metal lathe, joiner, a
> host of smaller power and hand tools, my steel pile, my foundry sands and
> supplies, 5 Corvair engines, and a handful of Corvair transaxles will all
> be going out there. I expect I'll be putting together a set of Chapter 1000
> tables, and if there's any room left, I'll treat myself to that used
> Bridgeport J-head milling machine I've wanted for years.
>
> Of course, I hate tools.......
>
> Jim Ash
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | large lift struts |
D.J., Would 1" sq. aluminum bar be strong enough to take a 3/8 drilled
and taped hole? It would be so much lighter than steel bar.
Has any one checked with Chad Willie to see if his plans are just
rip-off of BHP's plans, or did he redraw them with all of the errors,
mistakes, grey areas, black areas, vague areas, confusing areas, etc
cleaned up? If so his plans ( or anyone who cleaned up and redrew the
plans ) would be the way to go. Leon S. with a 55 gal. barrel
of scrap caused by my misinterpreting the grey areas of the plans.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John_Duprey(at)vmed.org |
| Subject: | Re: large lift struts |
07/03/2003 10:12:36 AM
Leon: Many years ago when I first became interested in the Pietenpol I
bought a set of Chad Willies plans, The were photocopied from the old F&G
Manual, Very hard to read. A complete set of plans as advertised and Chad
is not violating any copyrights. He may be offering cleaned up plans now,
I don't know. I can only tell you that the plans I bought from the
Pietenpol's are far superior to the ones I bought first.
Best Wishes
John
lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)(at)matronics.com on 07/03/2003 09:30:27 AM
Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: large lift struts
D.J., Would 1" sq. aluminum bar be strong enough to take a 3/8 drilled
and taped hole? It would be so much lighter than steel bar.
Has any one checked with Chad Willie to see if his plans are just
rip-off of BHP's plans, or did he redraw them with all of the errors,
mistakes, grey areas, black areas, vague areas, confusing areas, etc
cleaned up? If so his plans ( or anyone who cleaned up and redrew the
plans ) would be the way to go. Leon S. with a 55 gal. barrel
of scrap caused by my misinterpreting the grey areas of the plans.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: large lift struts |
I'm not sure if a 1" sq. aluminum would be strong enough.... I guess it
would, but my thought process was I don't want to be up in the air in a
turbulent day wondering if it is strong enough.
You are right though.... it'd probably be abuot 5 lb lighter to go with
aluminum. Maybe I ought to do one and then test it to destruction. All
it needs to hold is about 2,500lb. If it holds that much that's like
pulling 5 G's.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks(at)webtv.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: large lift struts
>
> D.J., Would 1" sq. aluminum bar be strong enough to take a 3/8 drilled
> and taped hole? It would be so much lighter than steel bar.
> Has any one checked with Chad Willie to see if his plans are just
> rip-off of BHP's plans, or did he redraw them with all of the errors,
> mistakes, grey areas, black areas, vague areas, confusing areas, etc
> cleaned up? If so his plans ( or anyone who cleaned up and redrew the
> plans ) would be the way to go. Leon S. with a 55 gal. barrel
> of scrap caused by my misinterpreting the grey areas of the plans.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Let's get started |
--- Jim Ash wrote:
>
> I'm currently in the process of putting up a shop building. Once it's
> up,
> my air compressor, welder, drill press, wood lathe, metal lathe,
> joiner, a
> host of smaller power and hand tools, my steel pile, my foundry sands
> and
> supplies, 5 Corvair engines, and a handful of Corvair transaxles will
> all
> be going out there. I expect I'll be putting together a set of
> Chapter 1000
> tables, and if there's any room left, I'll treat myself to that used
> Bridgeport J-head milling machine I've wanted for years.
>
> Of course, I hate tools.......
>
> Jim Ash
My brother Larry bought one (Bridgeport) used, a few years ago and is
his favorite "toy" here in our factory. We got it in Texas ,imported
it and brought it here, still is in perfect shape (also my brother;-)
We are also pioneers here, Carlos Angel (KR-1) Jose leon (Monnet
motorglider) and me (Piet tail feathers, but never built the plane)
were the first projects here, this was 20 years ago.
We still are very close friends, now that we are building our 5th
project (CH 701) Carlos is working with us after his engine rebuild
work.
Guys, we found a builder and friend in Jim...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | a Piet near you ?? |
For any of us, new or old on the Piet list, it's always good to share with
others that a great Piet supporter named Doc Mosher has compiled a very
complete Piet directory of registered ones out there-----contact him
at docshop(at)tds.net or by mail it's Doc Mosher, 1071 Meadow Lane, Neenah,
WI 54956. I think it's five bucks, but better check w/ him. Lists many,
many, many Piets and the owners names and addresses.
Mike C. in Ohio NEVER cruising at more than two or three hundred feet over
the MEF values on the sectional charts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | let's get started; odds & ends |
1. Dick writes-
>I would also like to hear more about icing problems that list members
>have experienced.
How about a plain-Jane Skylane, VFR on a summer afternoon at about 8500 MSL,
trimmed for cruise and enjoying the sights on a cross-country, when the
engine started sputtering and losing power? Do you have any idea how
quickly you can get behind the airplane when it sneaks up on you like that?
;o) I checked and rechecked everything, prop, mixture, throttle, cowl
flaps, windows and doors, fuel selector valve, every gauge and dial on the
panel... then remembered that little square knob and pulled it but not
before losing significant altitude and all of my composure. Whew! Power
again! So even the most common and popular, best-engineered,
certified-engined spam cans can develop carb ice on the nicest of summer
days at cruise power. Don't sit there and try to work your way around
providing carb heat on a non-injected airplane engine... aero carb or not
(my opinion!)
2. Ken asks-
>Question what do you do for carb ice if the heat is already on.
What was it they said... "drop a brick and watch where it lands, because
that's where you will be in about 30 seconds" ;o)
3. DJ writes-
>I am using the skytek struts. I'm using the smaller size for the cabanes
>and the larger for ift struts.
For those who have built their struts out of round tubing (or you're
planning to use round tubing to save money), you can still streamline them
using the plastic slip-on material the ultralight guys use. Available at
http://streamline.8k.com/ and just think of the speed you'll gain by
reducing all that drag!
4. Jim asks-
>I've seen a few different suppliers of plans and I'd like to know the
>difference between them.
This was one of my first questions when I started looking at the Pietenpol,
and I think you've pretty much gotten the answer you need: get the true-blue
plans from Don Pietenpol, and get the manual too. I also got the Flying &
Glider Manuals through EAA, which are reprints of the original articles that
Mr. Pietenpol wrote and add an interesting narrative to the project. The
one to avoid is St. Croix Aircraft, which (I understand) simply copies and
sells the Pietenpol/F&G plans. As a point of interest (Mike Cuy, are you
listening?), I just looked at
http://www.ultralightnews.com/plansbuyerguide/stcroisaircraft/pietenaircamper.htm
and the St. Croix information is shown... with a picture of Mike Cuy's
authentic Pietenpol! I think this should be taken care of immediately,
since it's false and misleading and I know Mike doesn't intentionally
support the knock-offs.
5. Jack writes-
>take a camera with a lot of film and take pictures of every little
>detail you can think of, such as how the jury struts attach to the wing and
>the lift struts - jury struts aren't even shown on the plans so you can
>find
>lots of variation here.
And the jury struts are one thing you WILL find mentioned in the Pietenpol
construction manual, but without any detail. For a really nice rendition of
the jury struts (and more information about John Dilatush's Piet in
general), see my webpage at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html
6. Gene writes-
>everyone calls them Pietenpols, it took me a
>while to figure out why some of the planes were so different.
As far as the GN-1, as I understand it Mr. Grega distinguished it from the
original Pietenpol by calling it "Air Camper" instead of "AirCamper" (two
words instead of one), or something like that. A fine line, and now all but
insignificant. Suffice it to say that there are many details and structural
differences between the Pietenpol and the Grega, but the external appearance
is very much the same to the untrained eye.
7. Hank asks-
>Does anyone have a copy of a stress analysis that has been done
>on the wood or steel tube Pietenpol?
There was an analysis done on the steel tube, standard Piet fuselage,
commissioned by Mr. Pietenpol. But as far as having a copy of the analysis,
unless it's in Don Pietenpol's personal family effects from Mr. Pietenpol, I
wouldn't think it would be around anymore. If you find it, by all means
donate it to the EAA Museum! Regarding the analysis done by the British
Piet guys, that may very well be available today but would likely take a bit
of scrounging and may require conversion from pounds sterling to American
greenbacks... or Whitworth to SAE ;o)
Happy 4th of July, especially to our British friends! PS- you're welcome to
a nice cup of tea with us anytime, and we won't even make it with water from
Boston harbor!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Let's get started |
Here is the list of EAA NH Chapters...
EAA 917 Alton Bay, NH
EAA 1314 Keene, NH www.whickertech.com/eaaeen.htm
EAA 336 Nashua, NH http://home.earthlink.net/~archie97/
EAA 225 Rochester, NH
EAA 61 Townshend, NH
EAA 740 West Lebanon, NH http://www.eaachapter740.org
EAA 1085 West Ossipee, NH
I think West Ossipee is closer than West Lebanon. EAA 225 is a great little chapter
but it is even further away.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
>
> I meant to mention:
>
> I'm in northern New Hampshire, formally Whitefield, which is about 15 nm
> due west of Mount Washington. The local economy is pretty sad, so you don't
> see a lot of discretionary money going toward airplanes. We just moved here
> a year and a half ago, and I've spent a lot of time doing home fixup stuff
> and working out of town, so I'm just finding my way around.
>
> About the closest EAA Chapter I found is #740. Their meetings are maybe an
> hour and a half's drive from here, so it isn't right next door. I've been a
> national member for 15(?) years, and have joined local chapters where we
> lived here and there. The New Hampshire move is our dream shot, so I expect
> we'll be here for a while.
>
> Somewhere I've got Aircraft Spruce's and Wicks' catalogs, but they're
> probably not current. I've been to 3 of the Sportair workshops, but not the
> fabric one yet.
>
> I've built things from plans before, so I know what you mean as far as not
> being a kit, but I appreciate the heads up anyway. I fully expect to spend
> a month of evenings scrutinizing the plans and adding things up to my
> satisfaction before I make a move. I tend to be pretty picky (more than one
> person has told me my preflights take longer than anybody they've ever
> known), but that's what keeps me alive and kickin'. As long as I can
> formulate a plan of action in my head, I'll be OK. Getting started is the
> worst for me.
>
> DJ - I went through your web site a week ago, including your log details
> and the intake manifold milling. Are you planning on using the jugs in the
> photo? Lon Wall (Corvair Underground) used to sell what he called a
> Superkit for engine rebuilding. If I opt for the Corvair engine, I'll
> probably get one of his kits.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
> >
> >Jim,
> >
> >You'll probably get 50 answers, all different, but right now it looks like
> >I'm the first.
> >
> >1) Yes, get the plans first. To clear up a confusion, there are actually
> >two planes we talk about on the list--the Pietenpol and the GN-1. They only
> >look alike, but there are a lot of differences in the details. I got the
> >Pietenpol plans because I wanted a 1929 airplane, not a 1950's airplane,
> >designed to use "cheap" Piper cub parts and to look old. I'm showing a
> >bias, but that was my thinking. Better still, get both--they're cheaper
> >than any other part of the project. While you're at it, get the Flying and
> >Glider Manual Reprint issue that published the Pietenpol--it's different in
> >a lot of details, but helps illustrate the way that BHP was thinking. There
> >is a builder's manual available from Don Pietenpol--not particularly useful,
> >but there.
> >
> >Expect to stare at the plans a lot after you get them. There's a lot on
> >them, there's a lot that isn't obvious, and there are a few things that you
> >have to figure out yourself.
> >
> >2) Get a copy of the Aircraft Spruce and Supplies catalog. It's big, free,
> >and includes most of the stuff that we use. Get the Wicks one too, and
> >stare at them for a while. You may not order anything from either, ever,
> >but they're useful references. Pick out some pieces to start making--I did
> >the wing ribs first, then the tail. Then again, I started from a
> >woodworking perspective.
> >
> >3) Start showing up at your local EAA chapter. They'll start taking you
> >seriously when you start bringing in plans and parts.
> >
> >4) Remember that this isn't a kit. You'll probably spend more time
> >figuring out what to do next than actually doing it, especially after you
> >get the basic framing done.
> >
> >5) You don't say what part of the country you're in, but there's probably
> >someone on the list within a hundred miles or so. Visit them for
> >inspiration.
> >
> >Have fun--it's a great project!
> >
> >Gene Hubbard
> >San Diego
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Jim Ash [mailto:ashcan(at)earthlink.net]
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >OK, I've thought about this off and on for three years, and a lot again in
> >the last few weeks.
> >
> >So where do I start? Obviously picking up a set of plans, to begin with. I
> >was expecting to get them from Don Pietenpol, but I've seen a few different
> >suppliers of plans and I'd like to know the difference between them. Is
> >there any supplemental documentation I should consider, such as tech
> >briefs, or a newsletter? A construction manual would be ideal, but I don't
> >expect that. I'm a first-time builder, but I can machine, weld (steel,
> >aluminum, stainless, 4130 tubing, cast iron, ...), form sheet metal,
> >sand-cast, and even stitch, but I'm a little rusty there.
> >
> >I have a bunch of other questions, as far as suppliers and construction
> >sequence, but let's keep the discussion simple for now. We'll get there.
> >
> >Jim Ash
> >
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: let's get started; odds & ends |
Are there any members of the Pietenpol family or British Piet guys on the
list that can help? I know the analysis "could" be done again, but to do it
right you need the loads analysis first and I haven't got that either (plus,
even 30 years ago when I got my degree they weren't teaching ANYTHING about
analysis of wood fuselages. I'm using my fathers aero books from the late
30s and 40s along with some ancient NACA reports to learn the "old way").
Hank Jarrett
7. Hank asks-
>Does anyone have a copy of a stress analysis that has been done
>on the wood or steel tube Pietenpol?
There was an analysis done on the steel tube, standard Piet fuselage,
commissioned by Mr. Pietenpol. But as far as having a copy of the analysis,
unless it's in Don Pietenpol's personal family effects from Mr. Pietenpol, I
wouldn't think it would be around anymore. If you find it, by all means
donate it to the EAA Museum! Regarding the analysis done by the British
Piet guys, that may very well be available today but would likely take a bit
of scrounging and may require conversion from pounds sterling to American
greenbacks... or Whitworth to SAE ;o)
Happy 4th of July, especially to our British friends! PS- you're welcome to
a nice cup of tea with us anytime, and we won't even make it with water from
Boston harbor!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Let's get started |
>> tables, and if there's any room left, I'll treat myself to that used
>> Bridgeport J-head milling machine I've wanted for years.
>>
>> Of course, I hate tools.......
>>
>> Jim Ash
>
>My brother Larry bought one (Bridgeport) used, a few years ago and is
>his favorite "toy" here in our factory. We got it in Texas ,imported
>it and brought it here, still is in perfect shape (also my brother;-)
>
>We are also pioneers here, Carlos Angel (KR-1) Jose leon (Monnet
>motorglider) and me (Piet tail feathers, but never built the plane)
>were the first projects here, this was 20 years ago.
>
>We still are very close friends, now that we are building our 5th
>project (CH 701) Carlos is working with us after his engine rebuild
>work.
>
>Guys, we found a builder and friend in Jim...
>
>Saludos
>Gary Gower
>Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.
Up here in the Rust Belt, one of the members of my EAA chapter regularly
picks up good condition Bridgeports at auction for $200-500 apiece and
resells them. Sad to see so many shops closing up as the work all goes to
China. Hoover (the vacuum cleaner people) is one of the big employers in my
town; last year they sent 95% of their tooling contracts to Chinese shops,
with the remaining 5% kept local.
Kip Gardner
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
Anyone have a list of EAA chapters in Indiana? All the links I've found are dead,
but I'm reasonably certain there is an active chapter in my area (Terre Haute),
because I see the occasional EAA bumper sticker at the local home-improvement
center...
Thanks...
John
John Ford
jford(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Myers <jmyers(at)powernet.org> |
| Subject: | Re: EAA chapters |
National lists the following
2dfef42.jpg
NAME EAA 83
President Darrel Zeck
Phone Number (812) 208-1398
Location Terre Haute, IN
Meeting 2nd Sat., Noon
Meeting Location Contact President
EMail bendix49(at)aol.com
Go to http://www.eaa.org/chapter/chapter_locator.html
then id the state you are interested in.
>
>Anyone have a list of EAA chapters in Indiana? All the links I've found
>are dead, but I'm reasonably certain there is an active chapter in my area
>(Terre Haute), because I see the occasional EAA bumper sticker at the
>local home-improvement center...
>
>Thanks...
>
>John
>
>
>John Ford
>jford(at)indstate.edu
>812-237-8542
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Let's get started |
Cy -
Thanks for the chapter list. I pulled the same list from the EAA web site
maybe two years ago before we moved up here.
It's probably about the same drive time to West Ossippee, because it's
local roads instead of Interstate from here. I've got contacts in the West
Lebanon crowd, and I've already been down to visit one of them and check
out his project. They were trying to get me to buy one of the hangars at
Dean in North Haverhill. I think they also hang out with some of the Post
Mills people, which if you're into gliders (I am), ain't a bad place to be.
I'll probably run down to meet the Ossippee people and say hi anyhow. I
suspect they're centered about Windsock airpark. I drove around out there a
couple times with the idea of maybe buying some property, but it was a bit
too far from civilization at the time, and I didn't have the time to start
a house-building project.
The social aspects of a good chapter have strong, albeit sometimes less
tangeable, merits. In another life in another place, I've driven past one
nameless chapter that was more of an expensive toys contest than a
grassroots crowd, specifically to get to another chapter that was (and
still is) very grass roots. I'll feel out some of the nearby chapters and
see where I best fit, including #225.
Jim Ash
>
>Here is the list of EAA NH Chapters...
>
> EAA 917 Alton Bay, NH
> EAA 1314 Keene, NH www.whickertech.com/eaaeen.htm
> EAA 336 Nashua, NH http://home.earthlink.net/~archie97/
> EAA 225 Rochester, NH
> EAA 61 Townshend, NH
> EAA 740 West Lebanon, NH http://www.eaachapter740.org
> EAA 1085 West Ossipee, NH
>
>
>I think West Ossipee is closer than West Lebanon. EAA 225 is a great
>little chapter but it is even further away.
>
>Cy Galley
>Editor, EAA Safety Programs
>cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skytek struts |
Thanks for the info DJ. I will buy some large struts when we get to New York
and ship them home. I will use the same size for the cabanes as the 10'6''
lengths will have to be cut for shipping and I can get one strut and cabane
from each length.
What are you using for wing strut forks ? There are some Aeronca forks
listed in the AS&S catalog, but no dimensions given. Are you familiar with
these forks ?
Thanks for you help.
Rod Wooller
Australia
(Leaving tomorrow for Brodhead via London, NY and Chicago)
>From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts
>Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:24:09 -0700
>
>
>I am using the skytek struts. I'm using the smaller size for the cabanes
>and the larger for ift struts.
>
>I did the math and figured that the smaller struts would be sufficient for
>lift struts but I wanted an extra factor of safety so I went witht he
>larger
>struts.
>
>For the cabanes I inserted .75" x 1" 2024 T3 aluminum bar about 5" long
>into
>the strut to terminate the ends see the photos here
>
>http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-30-03.htm
>
>For the lift strutsI will instert 1x1 4130 solid steel bar about 7" long
>into the lower ends so that I can tap and thread a hole for lift strut
>forks.
>
>They are probably a tad heavier than 4130 streamline but you can get all
>the
>strut material for cabanes, lift and jury struts for about $290 and no
>welding is required.
>
>They make some nice jury strut streamline tube as well...
>
>
>DJ Vegh
>N74DV
>Mesa, AZ
>www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
>-
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com>
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts
>
>
>
> >
> > A question (or two) for anyone who has used the 6061-T6 streamline lift
> > struts from Skytek.
> >
> > Is the "small" strut (2.44''x1.00") ok to use or do we have to up the
>size
> > to the "large" strut seeing that it is 6061 and not steel, as in the
>plans
>?
> >
> > Have you used the same size for the lift struts and the cabanes ?
> >
> > Hope to meet plenty of Piet builders at Brodhead (and ask a lot more
> > questions).
> >
> > Rod Wooller
> > Chidlow
> > Australia
> >
> > Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to
> > http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp
> >
> >
>
>
Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to
http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Let's get started |
Ha! Ha! But seriously, or more so anyway
Those Neuport guys gave an excellent talk,
presentation and answer session at Arlington
last year. They should be there again this
year. I don't have that Sport Av yet so I don't
know what they had to say in it. Maybe I can
get an email addy from them.
There's also a group up here doing the same
with texas parasols.
Clif
>
> I'm currently in the process of putting up a shop building. Once it's up,
>
> Of course, I hate tools.......
>
> Jim Ash
>
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skytek struts |
I'm not sure about Aeronca forks but if they are anything like J-3 forks
they'll work fine.
I'm using J-3 forks but I am threading them into solid steel bar instead of
aluminum.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts
>
> Thanks for the info DJ. I will buy some large struts when we get to New
York
> and ship them home. I will use the same size for the cabanes as the 10'6''
> lengths will have to be cut for shipping and I can get one strut and
cabane
> from each length.
>
> What are you using for wing strut forks ? There are some Aeronca forks
> listed in the AS&S catalog, but no dimensions given. Are you familiar with
> these forks ?
>
> Thanks for you help.
> Rod Wooller
> Australia
> (Leaving tomorrow for Brodhead via London, NY and Chicago)
>
>
> >From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts
> >Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:24:09 -0700
> >
> >
> >I am using the skytek struts. I'm using the smaller size for the
cabanes
> >and the larger for ift struts.
> >
> >I did the math and figured that the smaller struts would be sufficient
for
> >lift struts but I wanted an extra factor of safety so I went witht he
> >larger
> >struts.
> >
> >For the cabanes I inserted .75" x 1" 2024 T3 aluminum bar about 5" long
> >into
> >the strut to terminate the ends see the photos here
> >
> >http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-30-03.htm
> >
> >For the lift strutsI will instert 1x1 4130 solid steel bar about 7" long
> >into the lower ends so that I can tap and thread a hole for lift strut
> >forks.
> >
> >They are probably a tad heavier than 4130 streamline but you can get all
> >the
> >strut material for cabanes, lift and jury struts for about $290 and no
> >welding is required.
> >
> >They make some nice jury strut streamline tube as well...
> >
> >
> >DJ Vegh
> >N74DV
> >Mesa, AZ
> >www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> >
> >
> >-
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com>
> >To:
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > A question (or two) for anyone who has used the 6061-T6 streamline
lift
> > > struts from Skytek.
> > >
> > > Is the "small" strut (2.44''x1.00") ok to use or do we have to up the
> >size
> > > to the "large" strut seeing that it is 6061 and not steel, as in the
> >plans
> >?
> > >
> > > Have you used the same size for the lift struts and the cabanes ?
> > >
> > > Hope to meet plenty of Piet builders at Brodhead (and ask a lot more
> > > questions).
> > >
> > > Rod Wooller
> > > Chidlow
> > > Australia
> > >
> > > Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to
> > > http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to
> http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
D.J.: If you have the equipment to test that 1" sq. bar that would be
great. I was going to use the smaller struts, but decided to go with the
larger ones because the smaller ones use 3/4 bar, the large struts use
1". I figured the 1" bar could take the 3/8 hole better. I bought 4 big
turnbuckle forks from B & B Aircraft with 3/8 shank, at a buck fifty
each. Aircraft Spruce sells them for around $25 each! ( they probably
buy them from B & B ) They show them to be rated at 20,000 lbs. If a
strut end needs to hold 2500 lbs, and since there are 4 of the,
wouldn't they only need to support 1/4 of that 2500 lbs? Thanks, Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: EAA chapters |
City Web site
EAA 226 Anderson, IN http://www.geocities.com/eaa226/
EAA 1311 Avon, IN http://www.eaa1311.org/
EAA 650 Bloomington, IN http://www.bloomington.in.us/~eaa650/
EAA 729 Columbus, IN http://www.bakalar.org/eaa/
EAA 132 Elkhart, IN
EAA 21 Evansville, IN http://www.eaa21.org
EAA 2 Fort Wayne, IN http://www.EAA2.org
EAA 888 French Link, IN
EAA 1354 Greenwood, IN http://www.geocities.com/eaa1354jca/
EAA 373 Hagerstown, IN
EAA 1121 Indianapolis, IN
EAA 900 Indianapolis, IN
EAA 235 Kokomo, IN http://www.eaa235.org
EAA 256 Lafayette, IN
EAA 966 Michigan City, IN http://www.eaa966.org/
EAA 938 Nappanee, IN http://members.kconline.com/turnerconstp/
EAA 67 Noblesville, IN
EAA 1328 North Vernon, IN
EAA 828 Rensselaer, IN
EAA 1042 Sellersburg, IN http://www.eaachapter1042.org
EAA 83 Terre Haute, IN
EAA 104 Valparaiso, IN
EAA 625 Vincennes, IN http://www.eaa625.homepage.com/
EAA 1109 Warsaw, IN
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: EAA chapters
>
> Anyone have a list of EAA chapters in Indiana? All the links I've found
are dead, but I'm reasonably certain there is an active chapter in my area
(Terre Haute), because I see the occasional EAA bumper sticker at the local
home-improvement center...
>
> Thanks...
>
> John
>
>
> John Ford
> jford(at)indstate.edu
> 812-237-8542
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com> |
Just a quick question! Who on the list will be going to Oshkosh this year,
flying or driving. I'm going armed with my digital camera, ready to get as
many ideas as I can, from the more experienced builders and flyers. I would
love to meet with anyone that's going!
Ken
GN1 2992
Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
HI Ken,
I'll be there Tuesday through Friday morning. I'll probably be spending a
good deal of time at the Young Eagles shack.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Rickards
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh
Just a quick question! Who on the list will be going to Oshkosh this year,
flying or driving. I'm going armed with my digital camera, ready to get as
many ideas as I can, from the more experienced builders and flyers. I would
love to meet with anyone that's going!
Ken
GN1 2992
Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Vydra <jvydra(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Piet blue prints |
FYI.....A set of blueprints dated 1934 of the Piet is available on e-bay. This
is from the collection of John Grega who designed the GN-1. On sorting through
his items, we discovered that he sold a set of plans to the Naval Academy at
Annapolis. Anyone know what they did with them?
Jim Vydra
Springfield, MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
Ken,
I plan to be there the first 3 days.
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
Brodhead Thursday-Sunday am.....Oshkosh Sunday afternoon-Saturday am.......
I'm also taking a digital still camera (and video)....but this year I think
I'll focus on a part of the plane....then move the camera a little to some
other part close to where I WAS going to take the picture.....I'm sick and
tired of looking at pictures and wishing I had gotten a shot of "that area
RIGHT NEXT to where I took the picture".....
If you know what I mean......
Jim in Plano
NX25JM
Making great progress on my Air Camper project!!!!! I'm just 3 or 4 hours
away from completing 2 knotty pine night stands for my wife....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Rickards" <krickards(at)cvci.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh
>
>
> Just a quick question! Who on the list will be going to Oshkosh this
year,
> flying or driving. I'm going armed with my digital camera, ready to get
as
> many ideas as I can, from the more experienced builders and flyers. I
would
> love to meet with anyone that's going!
>
>
> Ken
>
> GN1 2992
>
> Canada
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com> |
Thanks for the reply's guys. I will be there Wednesday evening thru Sunday.
Maybe we could all meet somewhere and during the week? Any suggestions?
Ken
GN1 2992
Canada
-----Original Message-----
From: TomTravis(at)aol.com [mailto:TomTravis(at)aol.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh
Ken,
I plan to be there the first 3 days.
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brants" <tmbrant(at)usfamily.net> |
I'll be there Thursday through Sunday - camera in hand... Brodhead on
Saturday.
Tom B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Rickards" <krickards(at)cvci.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh
>
>
> Just a quick question! Who on the list will be going to Oshkosh this
year,
> flying or driving. I'm going armed with my digital camera, ready to get
as
> many ideas as I can, from the more experienced builders and flyers. I
would
> love to meet with anyone that's going!
>
>
> Ken
>
> GN1 2992
>
> Canada
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Thanks John: If he sold photo coppies then,that's probably what he is
selling today. I bought my plans in 1974, and the ones sold today are
the very same. Wouldn't it be wonderful and easy for Don P. to put notes
on the plans such as "do not braze 4130" etc. ah well. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan James" <MADjames(at)theknapp.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: let's get started; odds & ends |
I know of no-one over here in the UK who admits to having carried out a
stress analysis of the wooden Piet. The only chap who may have come close is
Jim Wills who designed some built up spars some years ago that now form part
of the UK plans. Unfortunately, Jim is unwilling to share details of his
spars outside the UK (and presumably any other associated information) in
fear of litigation should anything go wrong.
We also have a metal tube fuselage option approved for use and built by Paul
Prince of Aviation Metalcraft, but it bears little resemblance to the way
Bernard designed his.
PS - I'll coming over to Brodhead to claim that nice cup of tea. Should be
arriving sometime Friday evening. Don't forget to put the kettle on...
Alan James (G-BUCO)
The UK Pietenpol Club
--- Original Message -----
From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: let's get started; odds & ends
>
> Are there any members of the Pietenpol family or British Piet guys on the
> list that can help? I know the analysis "could" be done again, but to do
it
> right you need the loads analysis first and I haven't got that either
(plus,
> even 30 years ago when I got my degree they weren't teaching ANYTHING
about
> analysis of wood fuselages. I'm using my fathers aero books from the late
> 30s and 40s along with some ancient NACA reports to learn the "old way").
> Hank Jarrett
>
>
> 7. Hank asks-
> >Does anyone have a copy of a stress analysis that has been done
> >on the wood or steel tube Pietenpol?
>
> There was an analysis done on the steel tube, standard Piet fuselage,
> commissioned by Mr. Pietenpol. But as far as having a copy of the
analysis,
> unless it's in Don Pietenpol's personal family effects from Mr. Pietenpol,
I
> wouldn't think it would be around anymore. If you find it, by all means
> donate it to the EAA Museum! Regarding the analysis done by the British
> Piet guys, that may very well be available today but would likely take a
bit
> of scrounging and may require conversion from pounds sterling to American
> greenbacks... or Whitworth to SAE ;o)
>
> Happy 4th of July, especially to our British friends! PS- you're welcome
to
> a nice cup of tea with us anytime, and we won't even make it with water
from
> Boston harbor!
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: large lift struts |
DJ,
I think I'd be concerned about the difference in thermal expansion, between
steel and aluminum. They expand and contract at very different rates.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Marinucci" <srmjem(at)ezol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: large lift struts |
I would also be concerned about dissimilar corrosion between the steel
and aluminum. It would be very difficult to inspect that area without
removing the lift struts and taking the steel bar out to check for
corrosion.
Sam
NX115SM
>DJ,
>I think I'd be concerned about the difference in thermal expansion, between
>steel and aluminum. They expand and contract at very different rates.
>
>Chuck
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: large lift struts |
I would have the steel bars cadmium plated like AN bolts. and then I
would paint them with Zinc Chromate primer. That should take care of the
corrosion issue. As for thermal expansion.... I'm not sure it would really
be a big enough problem to worry about..... but it is a good point
something to look into
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Marinucci" <srmjem(at)ezol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: large lift struts
>
>
> I would also be concerned about dissimilar corrosion between the steel
> and aluminum. It would be very difficult to inspect that area without
> removing the lift struts and taking the steel bar out to check for
> corrosion.
> Sam
> NX115SM
>
>
> >DJ,
> >I think I'd be concerned about the difference in thermal expansion,
between
> >steel and aluminum. They expand and contract at very different rates.
> >
> >Chuck
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Arthur Johnson <aejohnson(at)email.com> |
| Subject: | large lift struts |
DJ,
There is product called Duralac which you should be able to buy at any West
Marine store. It is a barium chromate cream widely used in aerospace and
marine industries to prevent corrosion between dissimilar metals. After your
plating and painting you simply cover the contact surfaces with this cream,
join, clean up and forget it.
Cheers,
Arthur Johnson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: large lift struts
I would have the steel bars cadmium plated like AN bolts. and then I
would paint them with Zinc Chromate primer. That should take care of the
corrosion issue. As for thermal expansion.... I'm not sure it would really
be a big enough problem to worry about..... but it is a good point
something to look into
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Marinucci" <srmjem(at)ezol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: large lift struts
>
>
> I would also be concerned about dissimilar corrosion between the steel
> and aluminum. It would be very difficult to inspect that area without
> removing the lift struts and taking the steel bar out to check for
> corrosion.
> Sam
> NX115SM
>
>
> >DJ,
> >I think I'd be concerned about the difference in thermal expansion,
between
> >steel and aluminum. They expand and contract at very different rates.
> >
> >Chuck
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Green" <mmml(at)bigpond.com> |
Hi everyone, I'm new to the group and are about to start building once I recieve
my wood. Prior to setteling on either the long or the short fuselage, obviously
I have to decide on which engine to use. Could some of you please provide
me with the for and against arguments for the Model A and the Corvair .
Many thanks,
Mike Green
Romsey, Victoria
Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
Bobka will be to brodhead for friday saturday (in a Cessna 140) and then
OSHKOSH for tues wed but driving and camping.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh
>
> Brodhead Thursday-Sunday am.....Oshkosh Sunday afternoon-Saturday
am.......
>
> I'm also taking a digital still camera (and video)....but this year I
think
> I'll focus on a part of the plane....then move the camera a little to some
> other part close to where I WAS going to take the picture.....I'm sick and
> tired of looking at pictures and wishing I had gotten a shot of "that area
> RIGHT NEXT to where I took the picture".....
>
> If you know what I mean......
>
> Jim in Plano
> NX25JM
>
> Making great progress on my Air Camper project!!!!! I'm just 3 or 4 hours
> away from completing 2 knotty pine night stands for my wife....
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Rickards" <krickards(at)cvci.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh
>
>
> >
> >
> > Just a quick question! Who on the list will be going to Oshkosh this
> year,
> > flying or driving. I'm going armed with my digital camera, ready to get
> as
> > many ideas as I can, from the more experienced builders and flyers. I
> would
> > love to meet with anyone that's going!
> >
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > GN1 2992
> >
> > Canada
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: let's get started; odds & ends |
Alan James,
What does PFA documentation say about brazing 4130?
chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan James <MADjames(at)theknapp.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: let's get started; odds & ends
>
> I know of no-one over here in the UK who admits to having carried out a
> stress analysis of the wooden Piet. The only chap who may have come close
is
> Jim Wills who designed some built up spars some years ago that now form
part
> of the UK plans. Unfortunately, Jim is unwilling to share details of his
> spars outside the UK (and presumably any other associated information) in
> fear of litigation should anything go wrong.
>
> We also have a metal tube fuselage option approved for use and built by
Paul
> Prince of Aviation Metalcraft, but it bears little resemblance to the way
> Bernard designed his.
>
> PS - I'll coming over to Brodhead to claim that nice cup of tea. Should be
> arriving sometime Friday evening. Don't forget to put the kettle on...
>
> Alan James (G-BUCO)
> The UK Pietenpol Club
>
>
> --- Original Message -----
> From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: let's get started; odds & ends
>
>
> >
> > Are there any members of the Pietenpol family or British Piet guys on
the
> > list that can help? I know the analysis "could" be done again, but to
do
> it
> > right you need the loads analysis first and I haven't got that either
> (plus,
> > even 30 years ago when I got my degree they weren't teaching ANYTHING
> about
> > analysis of wood fuselages. I'm using my fathers aero books from the
late
> > 30s and 40s along with some ancient NACA reports to learn the "old
way").
> > Hank Jarrett
> >
> >
> > 7. Hank asks-
> > >Does anyone have a copy of a stress analysis that has been done
> > >on the wood or steel tube Pietenpol?
> >
> > There was an analysis done on the steel tube, standard Piet fuselage,
> > commissioned by Mr. Pietenpol. But as far as having a copy of the
> analysis,
> > unless it's in Don Pietenpol's personal family effects from Mr.
Pietenpol,
> I
> > wouldn't think it would be around anymore. If you find it, by all means
> > donate it to the EAA Museum! Regarding the analysis done by the British
> > Piet guys, that may very well be available today but would likely take a
> bit
> > of scrounging and may require conversion from pounds sterling to
American
> > greenbacks... or Whitworth to SAE ;o)
> >
> > Happy 4th of July, especially to our British friends! PS- you're
welcome
> to
> > a nice cup of tea with us anytime, and we won't even make it with water
> from
> > Boston harbor!
> >
> > Oscar Zuniga
> > San Antonio, TX
> > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 7/4/03 8:46:51 AM Central Daylight Time,
krickards(at)cvci.com writes:
<< Who on the list will be going to Oshkosh this year,
flying or driving. >>
I'll be there !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)paonline.com> |
Ken,
I'm going with my digital camara also. First time.
I found a group thru a friend in Pittsburg, going by bus and staying in a
dorm.
They do it every year.
I'll be there June 31 thru July 2. I'll just miss WW's show & tell. :-( I
will be looking for him to say hi.
They fellow running the trip said even after 10 years he hasn't seen it
all!!
George Allen
Harrisburg, PA
GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
(Peitenpol builder)
----- Original Message -----
> Just a quick question! Who on the list will be going to Oshkosh this
year,
> flying or driving. I'm going armed with my digital camera, ready to get
as
> many ideas as I can, from the more experienced builders and flyers. I
would
> love to meet with anyone that's going!
> Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken & Lisa Rickards" <KL0914(at)cogeco.ca> |
I'm also going to miss WW's show & tell, but am looking forward to meeting
him. I've been to Oshkosh several times and on each occasiion didn't see it
all. I'll be around Piets as much as I can during my stay and hope to meet
as many builders and flyers as I can.
Ken,
GN12992
Canada
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Allen" <GeorgeA(at)paonline.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh
>
> Ken,
> I'm going with my digital camara also. First time.
> I found a group thru a friend in Pittsburg, going by bus and staying in a
> dorm.
> They do it every year.
> I'll be there June 31 thru July 2. I'll just miss WW's show & tell. :-( I
> will be looking for him to say hi.
> They fellow running the trip said even after 10 years he hasn't seen it
> all!!
>
> George Allen
> Harrisburg, PA
> GeorgeA(at)PAonline.com
> (Peitenpol builder)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > Just a quick question! Who on the list will be going to Oshkosh this
> year,
> > flying or driving. I'm going armed with my digital camera, ready to get
> as
> > many ideas as I can, from the more experienced builders and flyers. I
> would
> > love to meet with anyone that's going!
>
> > Ken
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary M. Colwill" <g.colwill3(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Looking for builders/flyers in Southern California |
Hello,
I'm a prospective builder, looking for examples of finished and
unfinished Piets in Southern California to gawk at. If you're interested
in showing your handiwork to a newbie please reply.
Gary M. Colwill
Chino, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
We call it the 'Grand Tour'...a lap around Wichita. I flew it Sunday
morning, with several fly bys (two T.P. drops) at a few selected targets. I took
off
about 7 am, with quite a bit of wind. The sock was about half full, and
maybe 5 or 10 degrees right cross wind. The whole trip was Rock & Roll. When
I
returned, the sock was almost straight out, with about 40 degrees right
crosswind, and gusty. Scariest landing I've made yet, in the Piet. A gust hit
me
just as I crossed the numbers. I could even feel it on the side of my face, but
then after she settled into ground effect height, it all seemed to settle
down into a decent three point landing...the ol' Piet handled it alot better than
I did. It was a 2 1/2 hr flight, with at least another hour's worth of fuel
onboard. She's got some long legs !! On back taxi, the tail wind and the
prop blast met just ahead of the fin, and with full right rudder, she just kept
going left. Had to shut down, and push 'er across the runway.
We also made it to the EAA chap. 88 Fly-In at El Dorado on Saturday morning.
Ya just can't believe how good it feels to be flying this plane !! YEE
HAAWW !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Wichita KS
installing brakes this week, getting ready for the 'Big Adventure' !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Grand Tour Report from Chuck G. |
Chuck Gantzer----wonderful report on what happens to a builder when he
keeps plugging along, day by day, week by week......and then VICTORY
!!! Glad to hear you are enjoying the long-term fun rewards for your
hard work.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seibert Bob-r18643 <Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com> |
Good news and bad news here in Taylor Tx.
First the good news -
It is all together with shiny yellow paint and a weight of 580 pounds!
(I couldn't believe it so I weighed it twice !)
Now the bad news -
The CG is a disaster!
With a 190 pound pilot the CG is 22.5 inches behind the leading edge.
I have an A65 Continental with the motor mount extended 3 inches over the plans.
I moved the wing back 2 inches also.
Looks like I need more weight in the nose and more moving of the wing.
(I hate to do that because of all the interference with cables, sheet metal, windshields
etc.)
I really used up all my cusswords when I managed to roll the brand new wooden prop
into the wingtip of my RV6.
Busted about a 1 inch chunk out of the prop tip. Didn't hurt the fiberglass wingtip
on the -6 though!
Bottom line is that I am looking for a metal prop.
I figure it will cure a lot of my CG issues and be more resistant to crashing into
other stuff in the hangar.
Does anyone have a prop from a Cub, Champ, etc. that they are willing to sell?
If it needs repair/repitching that's not an issue. I can do that.
Has anybody got a prop they want to sell?
By the way - I would suggest if you are hanging an A65 on yours, extend the mount
about 6 inches!
It will keep the neighbor kids from learning colorful new language.
Bob Seibert
Six Sigma Quality
-------------------------------------------------------
Motorola POPI Classification:
General Business Use
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
Congrats Chuck!!
I am glad for your success. Now, knowing that you have spent a fair amount of
time refining your airplane, I have a question. Would you please summarize for
us the configuration changes you've made since you first got off the ground.
It sounds like you've arrived at a configuration that is really working good
for you. I am aware of the engine change you made. So, for the benefit of those
of us not there yet and to tap into your "lessons learned".... What other
refinements have made your airplane so sweet?
T. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need a prop! |
Bob,
I have a Metal McCauley which I used on 41CC the first 15hrs of test time.
The test pilot remarked that the rpm would run too high if not constantly
adjusted. One day a bystander (AI) remarked that the prop appeared short of the
stamped 71-48. He took out a small tape and measured it to be 66 long.
I have this prop holding up a corner in my shop and am waiting for any offer
I can't refuse. I have an A-65 engine. This prop weighs 22 lbs. The new Hegy
on the plane now weighs 8 lbs. If you can use it it's yours REAL cheap.
Corky in La trying to sell (give away) short props.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Let's get started |
| From: | "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com> |
A couple of suggestions for information that I'm surprised haven't been mentioned...
Complete set of Tony Bingelis books and Micheal Cuy's excellent video which has
a number of great suggestions.
And since I'm out of lurking mode for a moment, I'd like to point out that I think
Chad Willie had family permission to distribute prints for a time. I think
around the time he developed the biplane Piet (the Aerial). I could be wrong,
but if I remember right, it was difficult to get prints for a while and he
filled the void. I know he certainly gets a lot of heat for being a very strong
admirer of the design.
Another difference between the GN-1 and the original Piet is the nose radii of
the airfoil that John Grega said would produce a less-sharp stall. I've never
had the pleasure of flying a GN-1, but I'm sure it is a fun design.
With engineering and stress analysis - I'm sure it's a fun exercise but for confidence,
try to research past accidents. Pete Bowers Piet (688Y) which was an
original built by Bernie came through a rough field landing and a fence and
protected the pilot and passenger fine. There's a great story floating around
about one being flown square into a corn crib and Ernie Gann hit power lines
landing his at his property on San Jaun Island. He hit the ground so hard at
a 45-degree angle that it bounced backwards and crumpled the tail. Amazing to
look at - the nose and tail completely destroyed but the plywood box for the
occupants completely intact. Only injury to Ernie was his knee went through the
plywood above the cutout and caused very little injury.
The only death I've witnessed with the Piet was a passenger who refused to wear
the shoulder straps provided, and he died of head injuries after a stall-spin
accident while making a downwind takeoff followed by a downwind turn. The pilot
(wearing shoulder straps) came out fine.
The Piet is very stout if built to the plans - even if using the original materials.
And regardless of the propulsion used, it's got to be the most fun. I've
never had to pay to attend an air show that I flew a Pietenpol to. They always
want to display it.
The above are my humble opinions worth just what you paid for them - maybe less.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Steve E will be there Saturday. C182. Next year in the piet for the
75'th.
Stevee
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Christian Bobka
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh
Bobka will be to brodhead for friday saturday (in a Cessna 140) and then
OSHKOSH for tues wed but driving and camping.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh
>
> Brodhead Thursday-Sunday am.....Oshkosh Sunday afternoon-Saturday
am.......
>
> I'm also taking a digital still camera (and video)....but this year I
think
> I'll focus on a part of the plane....then move the camera a little to
some
> other part close to where I WAS going to take the picture.....I'm sick
and
> tired of looking at pictures and wishing I had gotten a shot of "that
area
> RIGHT NEXT to where I took the picture".....
>
> If you know what I mean......
>
> Jim in Plano
> NX25JM
>
> Making great progress on my Air Camper project!!!!! I'm just 3 or 4
hours
> away from completing 2 knotty pine night stands for my wife....
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Rickards" <krickards(at)cvci.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh
>
>
> >
> >
> > Just a quick question! Who on the list will be going to Oshkosh
this
> year,
> > flying or driving. I'm going armed with my digital camera, ready to
get
> as
> > many ideas as I can, from the more experienced builders and flyers.
I
> would
> > love to meet with anyone that's going!
> >
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > GN1 2992
> >
> > Canada
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for builders/flyers in Southern Calif |
ornia
Gary,
Stop by EAA Chapter 14 in San Diego some Saturday morning. My plane is
getting "close" to being ready to cover.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary M. Colwill [mailto:g.colwill3(at)verizon.net]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Looking for builders/flyers in Southern
California
Hello,
I'm a prospective builder, looking for examples of finished and
unfinished Piets in Southern California to gawk at. If you're interested
in showing your handiwork to a newbie please reply.
Gary M. Colwill
Chino, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | cabane cross brace wires |
My GN-1 plans are a bit shady on the size of cable used for the X brace wires for
the front and rear cabanes.
Is 3/32" cable sufficient or is it supposed to be 1/8"
DJ
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: cabane cross brace wires |
DJ--- Piet plans call for 1/8" plans. I'd go w/ the 1/8".
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cabane cross brace wires |
ok.... 1/8" it is.
DJ
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gdascomb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: cabane cross brace wires |
I'm confused......my plans say 3/32". Which one is best?
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need a prop! |
Has anybody you know of ever cast a spinner out of lead?....Carl
Vought....Piet builder, new to the group
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | latest entry in web log - center section & cabanes |
I updated my construction log today. Some more photos of the center section
progress and cabanes.
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/Log/GN1-log-003.htm
I'm hoping to have the center section built and rigged within the next 2
weeks.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Young <wry22(at)drexel.edu> |
| Subject: | elevator trim systems |
I was watching Mike Cuy's video tonight and he mentions an elevator
trim system. I was wondering if he or anyone else might be able to
elaborate on how it works?
Thanks Will
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator trim systems |
I believe it is a stick tensioner rather than a true trim tab system.
beyond that I don't recall the details
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Young" <wry22(at)drexel.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: elevator trim systems
>
> I was watching Mike Cuy's video tonight and he mentions an elevator
> trim system. I was wondering if he or anyone else might be able to
> elaborate on how it works?
>
> Thanks Will
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Let's get started |
Or maybe more- Clif
>
> With engineering and stress analysis - I'm sure it's a fun exercise but
for confidence, try to research past accidents. Pete Bowers Piet (688Y)
which was an original built by Bernie came through a rough field landing and
a fence and protected the pilot and passenger fine. There's a great story
floating around about one being flown square into a corn crib and Ernie Gann
hit power lines landing his at his property on San Jaun Island. He hit the
ground so hard at a 45-degree angle that it bounced backwards and crumpled
the tail. Amazing to look at - the nose and tail completely destroyed but
the plywood box for the occupants completely intact. Only injury to Ernie
was his knee went through the plywood above the cutout and caused very
little injury.
>
> The only death I've witnessed with the Piet was a passenger who refused to
wear the shoulder straps provided, and he died of head injuries after a
stall-spin accident while making a downwind takeoff followed by a downwind
turn. The pilot (wearing shoulder straps) came out fine.
>
> The Piet is very stout if built to the plans - even if using the original
materials. And regardless of the propulsion used, it's got to be the most
fun. I've never had to pay to attend an air show that I flew a Pietenpol
to. They always want to display it.
>
> The above are my humble opinions worth just what you paid for them - maybe
less.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: large lift struts |
I'm a little late on this one but I think the area
of concern is that between the bolt hole edge
and the side of the bar, both sides added.
For 6061 the strength/ sq in is around 30,000 lbs
The area we're talking about is 1"-3/8= 5/8 sq in.
Multiplied by 30,000 gives over 18,000 lb!
Times four struts........
The 3/8 bolt itself is in shear at two points.
Find the area of the bolt circle, multiply by two,
multply by the shear strength and.....
A=pi times radius times radius.
3/16 x 3/16 x 3.14 = 0.11 sq in
Add top and bottom shear points= 0.22 sq in
AN bolt at 125,000 lb shear X 0.22 in = 27500 lb
Even assuming the actual useful safe strength as
considerably less is this strong enough DJ?
Those 3/16, 1/4 and 5/16 bolts called for by Bernard
are plenty strong enough in their respective locations.
I think the prime concern would be stress risers,
cracks, etc. in the holes and edges. Certainly
more of a concern in aluminum than steel.
Clif
PS, Don't assume this works for wood, it's a little
different. Especialy in longitudinal pull.
>
> I'm not sure if a 1" sq. aluminum would be strong enough.... I guess it
> would, but my thought process was I don't want to be up in the air in a
> turbulent day wondering if it is strong enough.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Will, group,
Somewhere along the line I was told that Bernard Pietenpol had tried
controlling elevator trim by attaching some springs to the upper and lower
arms of the elevator bellcrank ends. I welded two pieces of 4130, much
like a 1/2 sized elevator horn or aileron horn to the tube that the big
bellcrank is welded to. (on one side or the other of the
bellcrank) Under the seat I bolted a lever arm shaped like a T and
attached 3/32" cables to the top ends of the T and connected them with the
little horn on the bellcrank tube w/ the springs. I've got a friction
type nut on the pivot point of the lever arm which isn't the most effective
in keeping position, but it works ok. With 17 gallons of fuel behind the
firewall, the trim in my Piet is most effective after you burn off fuel and
the tail becomes somewhat heavier. There are many ways one could add
elevator trim---I've seen some really effective hardware store type bungee
(about 1/4" to 3/8" diam bungee/shock cord) trim deals on Piets where they
attach it to somewhere in the cockpit, then loop it around the stick and
vary the height of it on the stick to vary the force on the stick.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: large lift struts |
Clif,
great post but..... the bolt I am talking about is the fork that threads
into the end of the lift strut. It has 7/16-20 threads. My concern is it
would not be wise to use aluminum that has "homemade" cut threads into it.
If those threads fail then so does the strut and from there it's all over.
I'd feel much safer with a 4130 steel bar and have a machine shop thread it.
Although 7075 aluminum would be alot stronger than 6061 or 2024 and
certainly lighter than steel bar....
I dunno .... I guess I'll worry about this when I get to it.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "clif" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: large lift struts
>
> I'm a little late on this one but I think the area
> of concern is that between the bolt hole edge
> and the side of the bar, both sides added.
>
> For 6061 the strength/ sq in is around 30,000 lbs
> The area we're talking about is 1"-3/8= 5/8 sq in.
> Multiplied by 30,000 gives over 18,000 lb!
> Times four struts........
> The 3/8 bolt itself is in shear at two points.
> Find the area of the bolt circle, multiply by two,
> multply by the shear strength and.....
>
> A=pi times radius times radius.
> 3/16 x 3/16 x 3.14 = 0.11 sq in
>
> Add top and bottom shear points= 0.22 sq in
>
> AN bolt at 125,000 lb shear X 0.22 in = 27500 lb
>
> Even assuming the actual useful safe strength as
> considerably less is this strong enough DJ?
>
> Those 3/16, 1/4 and 5/16 bolts called for by Bernard
> are plenty strong enough in their respective locations.
>
> I think the prime concern would be stress risers,
> cracks, etc. in the holes and edges. Certainly
> more of a concern in aluminum than steel.
>
> Clif
>
> PS, Don't assume this works for wood, it's a little
> different. Especialy in longitudinal pull.
>
> >
> > I'm not sure if a 1" sq. aluminum would be strong enough.... I guess it
> > would, but my thought process was I don't want to be up in the air in a
> > turbulent day wondering if it is strong enough.
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
RE: trim
I do just as Mike C suggests. I have a 6" hardware store bungee cord
wrapped around my rear control stick. I attach the other end to my seat
belt and adjust as needed. I only use it when I'm flying more than an
hour or so, which isn't very often.
Cost: $.95 and 30 seconds.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: trim ideas
Will, group,
Somewhere along the line I was told that Bernard Pietenpol had tried
controlling elevator trim by attaching some springs to the upper and
lower
arms of the elevator bellcrank ends. I welded two pieces of 4130, much
like a 1/2 sized elevator horn or aileron horn to the tube that the big
bellcrank is welded to. (on one side or the other of the
bellcrank) Under the seat I bolted a lever arm shaped like a T and
attached 3/32" cables to the top ends of the T and connected them with
the
little horn on the bellcrank tube w/ the springs. I've got a friction
type nut on the pivot point of the lever arm which isn't the most
effective
in keeping position, but it works ok. With 17 gallons of fuel behind
the
firewall, the trim in my Piet is most effective after you burn off fuel
and
the tail becomes somewhat heavier. There are many ways one could add
elevator trim---I've seen some really effective hardware store type
bungee
(about 1/4" to 3/8" diam bungee/shock cord) trim deals on Piets where
they
attach it to somewhere in the cockpit, then loop it around the stick and
vary the height of it on the stick to vary the force on the stick.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
Please see the attached zip file for details.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Air Camper Project on eBay.... |
Title of item: Pietenpol Aircamper Project A-65 Powered
Seller: millermathew(at)yahoo.com
Price: Starts at $1,800.00
To bid on the item, go
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper Project on eBay.... |
ok, try this:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2422937607
>
if that doesn't work, go to ebay and search for Pietenpol....
jm
-------Original Message-------
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Camper Project on eBay....
>
Title of item: Pietenpol Aircamper Project A-65 Powered
Seller: millermathew(at)yahoo.com
Price: Starts at $1,800.00
To bid on the item, go
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2422937607>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com> |
| Subject: | latest entry in web log - center section & ca |
banes
DJ,
Those laser cut parts look really good. I like the idea of adjustable tubes,
think I will steal that idea.
Nice to see someone working on their project, I've been on the road for the
last month and I'm getting a desperate urge to glue something together
Ken
GN1 2992
Canada
-----Original Message-----
From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper(at)imagedv.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: latest entry in web log - center section &
cabanes
I updated my construction log today. Some more photos of the center section
progress and cabanes.
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/Log/GN1-log-003.htm
I'm hoping to have the center section built and rigged within the next 2
weeks.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Taylorcraft newsgroup |
Does anyone know about a Taylorcraft newsgroup on the web anywhere?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Taylorcraft newsgroup |
taylorcraft(at)topica.com
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Taylorcraft newsgroup
>
> Does anyone know about a Taylorcraft newsgroup on the web anywhere?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | cabane x-bracing |
I got to thinking that it may be cool to use stainless streamline wires for
the cabane x-bracing.
I called Steen Aero Lab , the only US distributor of Bruntons. Bruntons is
one of the VERY few companies who make flying wires. They are in Scotland.
For streamlined stainless cabane wires with AN clevis ends and check nuts
the total was $400.
A bit too steep for me. I was hoping they'd be about $65 a wire or less.
Lead time is 12 weeks since they come from overseas.
So..... I have decided to do stainless 1/8" cable. I called AS&S today and
had them custom make me the cables with forks swaged on one end. The other
end I will nicopress to a cable eye which screws into the turnbuckle barrel.
The nicopress and turnbuckles will be hidden inside the instument panel.
The visible end of the wires will have no "ugly" nicopress clamps... only
clean looking stainless swaged forks. Total cost for all the wires, forks,
barrels, cable eyes, clevis pins & cotter pins and swaging fees was $150.
Only bummer is there's a 4 week lead time on them. The center section
construction will have to wait til then.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
_
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Wilcox" <CRAIGWILCOX(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cabane x-bracing |
DJ -
Do it the way I did my tail wires - find a friendly local machine shop, and
have them thread some 3/16" stainless, one end left, one end right. The
AN662 fittings will then screw on, with check nuts, and you will be set.
You can even have them machine the little flat that helps turn them for
adjustments. My wires were about $10 each, plus the fittings (they average
$12 ea as an assembly).
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane x-bracing
>
> I got to thinking that it may be cool to use stainless streamline wires
for
> the cabane x-bracing.
>
> I called Steen Aero Lab , the only US distributor of Bruntons. Bruntons
is
> one of the VERY few companies who make flying wires. They are in
Scotland.
>
> For streamlined stainless cabane wires with AN clevis ends and check nuts
> the total was $400.
>
> A bit too steep for me. I was hoping they'd be about $65 a wire or less.
> Lead time is 12 weeks since they come from overseas.
>
> So..... I have decided to do stainless 1/8" cable. I called AS&S today
and
> had them custom make me the cables with forks swaged on one end. The
other
> end I will nicopress to a cable eye which screws into the turnbuckle
barrel.
> The nicopress and turnbuckles will be hidden inside the instument panel.
> The visible end of the wires will have no "ugly" nicopress clamps... only
> clean looking stainless swaged forks. Total cost for all the wires,
forks,
> barrels, cable eyes, clevis pins & cotter pins and swaging fees was $150.
>
> Only bummer is there's a 4 week lead time on them. The center section
> construction will have to wait til then.
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> _
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cabane x-bracing |
good idea Craig.
I already placed the order for cabane cables and it's in motion......
For my tail wires I'm going to be using some Starduster II stainless
streamline Brunton wires that I already have here in the shop. I priced
them out too... they woulda cost $1200. It'll take some modifications to
the tail to get them to fit but it'll sure look nice!
I got them for almost nothing last year. :-)
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Wilcox" <CRAIGWILCOX(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane x-bracing
>
> DJ -
> Do it the way I did my tail wires - find a friendly local machine shop,
and
> have them thread some 3/16" stainless, one end left, one end right. The
> AN662 fittings will then screw on, with check nuts, and you will be set.
> You can even have them machine the little flat that helps turn them for
> adjustments. My wires were about $10 each, plus the fittings (they
average
> $12 ea as an assembly).
> Craig
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane x-bracing
>
>
> >
> > I got to thinking that it may be cool to use stainless streamline wires
> for
> > the cabane x-bracing.
> >
> > I called Steen Aero Lab , the only US distributor of Bruntons. Bruntons
> is
> > one of the VERY few companies who make flying wires. They are in
> Scotland.
> >
> > For streamlined stainless cabane wires with AN clevis ends and check
nuts
> > the total was $400.
> >
> > A bit too steep for me. I was hoping they'd be about $65 a wire or
less.
> > Lead time is 12 weeks since they come from overseas.
> >
> > So..... I have decided to do stainless 1/8" cable. I called AS&S today
> and
> > had them custom make me the cables with forks swaged on one end. The
> other
> > end I will nicopress to a cable eye which screws into the turnbuckle
> barrel.
> > The nicopress and turnbuckles will be hidden inside the instument panel.
> > The visible end of the wires will have no "ugly" nicopress clamps...
only
> > clean looking stainless swaged forks. Total cost for all the wires,
> forks,
> > barrels, cable eyes, clevis pins & cotter pins and swaging fees was
$150.
> >
> > Only bummer is there's a 4 week lead time on them. The center section
> > construction will have to wait til then.
> >
> > DJ Vegh
> > N74DV
> > Mesa, AZ
> > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> >
> >
> > _
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cabane x-bracing |
Do you know if they roll the threads or cut them?
Jim Ash
>
>
>DJ -
>Do it the way I did my tail wires - find a friendly local machine shop, and
>have them thread some 3/16" stainless, one end left, one end right. The
>AN662 fittings will then screw on, with check nuts, and you will be set.
>You can even have them machine the little flat that helps turn them for
>adjustments. My wires were about $10 each, plus the fittings (they average
>$12 ea as an assembly).
>Craig
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane x-bracing
>
>
> >
> > I got to thinking that it may be cool to use stainless streamline wires
>for
> > the cabane x-bracing.
> >
> > I called Steen Aero Lab , the only US distributor of Bruntons. Bruntons
>is
> > one of the VERY few companies who make flying wires. They are in
>Scotland.
> >
> > For streamlined stainless cabane wires with AN clevis ends and check nuts
> > the total was $400.
> >
> > A bit too steep for me. I was hoping they'd be about $65 a wire or less.
> > Lead time is 12 weeks since they come from overseas.
> >
> > So..... I have decided to do stainless 1/8" cable. I called AS&S today
>and
> > had them custom make me the cables with forks swaged on one end. The
>other
> > end I will nicopress to a cable eye which screws into the turnbuckle
>barrel.
> > The nicopress and turnbuckles will be hidden inside the instument panel.
> > The visible end of the wires will have no "ugly" nicopress clamps... only
> > clean looking stainless swaged forks. Total cost for all the wires,
>forks,
> > barrels, cable eyes, clevis pins & cotter pins and swaging fees was $150.
> >
> > Only bummer is there's a 4 week lead time on them. The center section
> > construction will have to wait til then.
> >
> > DJ Vegh
> > N74DV
> > Mesa, AZ
> > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> >
> >
> > _
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
I'll be flying to Oshkosh.. in a wood airplane.. but not the Piet.. not this
year. I hope next year. Look for the tan, orange and white Bellanca triple
tail up around Row 20 in North 40. I bet we could scare up a cold beverage or two
for your trouble. I'll bring pics of my Piet project. Oh, and I plan on
hopping over to Brodhead on Saturday too. Hope to see some of you there.
Matt Paxton
Bellanca N8866R
Piet on landing gear, getting ready for the engine mount.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Arthur Johnson" <aejohnson(at)email.com> |
| Subject: | cabane x-bracing |
DJ,
I can organise you swaged Ronstan forks on whatever length 1/8th cable you
like at cost, (no charge for swageing, we do it in house) Ronstan
RF1508-0404 are $12USD each and 1/8th 316 7 X 19 cable is less than a buck a
metre. Air mail to States would be less than $20 and would take about a
week. If you want further info I can send you digital photos off line. I am
useing these swaged terminals for my shoulder harness in my Piet.
Cheers,
Arthur Johnson
Piet and Corvair builder in Oz
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Ash
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane x-bracing
Do you know if they roll the threads or cut them?
Jim Ash
>
>
>DJ -
>Do it the way I did my tail wires - find a friendly local machine shop, and
>have them thread some 3/16" stainless, one end left, one end right. The
>AN662 fittings will then screw on, with check nuts, and you will be set.
>You can even have them machine the little flat that helps turn them for
>adjustments. My wires were about $10 each, plus the fittings (they average
>$12 ea as an assembly).
>Craig
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane x-bracing
>
>
> >
> > I got to thinking that it may be cool to use stainless streamline wires
>for
> > the cabane x-bracing.
> >
> > I called Steen Aero Lab , the only US distributor of Bruntons. Bruntons
>is
> > one of the VERY few companies who make flying wires. They are in
>Scotland.
> >
> > For streamlined stainless cabane wires with AN clevis ends and check
nuts
> > the total was $400.
> >
> > A bit too steep for me. I was hoping they'd be about $65 a wire or
less.
> > Lead time is 12 weeks since they come from overseas.
> >
> > So..... I have decided to do stainless 1/8" cable. I called AS&S today
>and
> > had them custom make me the cables with forks swaged on one end. The
>other
> > end I will nicopress to a cable eye which screws into the turnbuckle
>barrel.
> > The nicopress and turnbuckles will be hidden inside the instument panel.
> > The visible end of the wires will have no "ugly" nicopress clamps...
only
> > clean looking stainless swaged forks. Total cost for all the wires,
>forks,
> > barrels, cable eyes, clevis pins & cotter pins and swaging fees was
$150.
> >
> > Only bummer is there's a 4 week lead time on them. The center section
> > construction will have to wait til then.
> >
> > DJ Vegh
> > N74DV
> > Mesa, AZ
> > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> >
> >
> > _
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brants" <tmbrant(at)usfamily.net> |
| Subject: | update on project |
I've taken another major step towards completion of the fuselage over the last
few days... I've been working on the turtledeck. I looked up all the posts on
how others have done it, tried a few different ways and finally found something
that worked for me. This was a totally frustrating experience as I did not
expect this to be that difficult. I've read posts of some people doing this
in a few hours... After I've tried different methods I came up with one (maybe
not original) that I could probably do in about 6 hours if I were to do it
again.
I used Home Depot cedar lumber for the stringers - 1/4" x 1 1/4" is what seemed
to stick in my mind after a visit to Dels project last fall.
Has anyone tried putting the "helmet box" in after the turtledeck is installed?
I kinda figured I wouldn't want it, but now am reconsidering. I would think
a router with a decent jig set up would make a nice cut-out.
Anyway, I'll have photos of the turtledeck installation on the web in a few days
in case anyone's interested. Now that this is done, I'm wondering what to tackle
next... Maybe the tail section...
Looking forward to Brodhead!
Tom Brant
Brooklyn Park, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: large lift struts |
Good idea. Sometimes we become obsessed
with achieving lightness. What we're dealing
with is "risk management". We have to balance
strength vrs. lightness with regard to safety and
peace of mind. I'm going to use a fork system
as well. The forks are sitting here. Things have
gotten sidetracked now that I have acquired
these two Corvair engines. Another project!
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: large lift struts
>
> Clif,
>
> great post but..... the bolt I am talking about is the fork that threads
> into the end of the lift strut. It has 7/16-20 threads. My concern is
it
> would not be wise to use aluminum that has "homemade" cut threads into it.
> If those threads fail then so does the strut and from there it's all over.
>
> I'd feel much safer with a 4130 steel bar and have a machine shop thread
it.
>
> Although 7075 aluminum would be alot stronger than 6061 or 2024 and
> certainly lighter than steel bar....
>
> I dunno .... I guess I'll worry about this when I get to it.
>
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: large lift struts |
7075 has a propensity to crack unless you ream the holes and dress the saw
marks. You have to be careful using it as it is not as forgiving as other
aluminum alloys.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: large lift struts
>
> Clif,
>
> great post but..... the bolt I am talking about is the fork that threads
> into the end of the lift strut. It has 7/16-20 threads. My concern is
it
> would not be wise to use aluminum that has "homemade" cut threads into it.
> If those threads fail then so does the strut and from there it's all over.
>
> I'd feel much safer with a 4130 steel bar and have a machine shop thread
it.
>
> Although 7075 aluminum would be alot stronger than 6061 or 2024 and
> certainly lighter than steel bar....
>
> I dunno .... I guess I'll worry about this when I get to it.
>
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "clif" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: large lift struts
>
>
> >
> > I'm a little late on this one but I think the area
> > of concern is that between the bolt hole edge
> > and the side of the bar, both sides added.
> >
> > For 6061 the strength/ sq in is around 30,000 lbs
> > The area we're talking about is 1"-3/8= 5/8 sq in.
> > Multiplied by 30,000 gives over 18,000 lb!
> > Times four struts........
> > The 3/8 bolt itself is in shear at two points.
> > Find the area of the bolt circle, multiply by two,
> > multply by the shear strength and.....
> >
> > A=pi times radius times radius.
> > 3/16 x 3/16 x 3.14 = 0.11 sq in
> >
> > Add top and bottom shear points= 0.22 sq in
> >
> > AN bolt at 125,000 lb shear X 0.22 in = 27500 lb
> >
> > Even assuming the actual useful safe strength as
> > considerably less is this strong enough DJ?
> >
> > Those 3/16, 1/4 and 5/16 bolts called for by Bernard
> > are plenty strong enough in their respective locations.
> >
> > I think the prime concern would be stress risers,
> > cracks, etc. in the holes and edges. Certainly
> > more of a concern in aluminum than steel.
> >
> > Clif
> >
> > PS, Don't assume this works for wood, it's a little
> > different. Especialy in longitudinal pull.
> >
> > >
> > > I'm not sure if a 1" sq. aluminum would be strong enough.... I guess
it
> > > would, but my thought process was I don't want to be up in the air in
a
> > > turbulent day wondering if it is strong enough.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: update on project - turtledeck |
my site has lots of turtleneck pics. The way I did mine was I made the
front former and the most aft former and glued them onto the fuse. I then
marked 7 ticks equally spaced around the formers. Then I used a string
pulled tight over the marks from front to rear. At that point I plotted
the dimensions for the other 2 formers in between.
The result produced a turtleneck that has perfectly straight stringers that
follow the contour exactly.
some pics here
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/10-27-02.htm
I also chose to have a storage area in the turtleneck. It's just big enough
to stash my headset, goggles, and handheld GPS.... maybe some charts too.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brants" <tmbrant(at)usfamily.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: update on project
>
> I've taken another major step towards completion of the fuselage over the
last few days... I've been working on the turtledeck. I looked up all the
posts on how others have done it, tried a few different ways and finally
found something that worked for me. This was a totally frustrating
experience as I did not expect this to be that difficult. I've read posts
of some people doing this in a few hours... After I've tried different
methods I came up with one (maybe not original) that I could probably do in
about 6 hours if I were to do it again.
>
> I used Home Depot cedar lumber for the stringers - 1/4" x 1 1/4" is what
seemed to stick in my mind after a visit to Dels project last fall.
>
> Has anyone tried putting the "helmet box" in after the turtledeck is
installed? I kinda figured I wouldn't want it, but now am reconsidering. I
would think a router with a decent jig set up would make a nice cut-out.
>
> Anyway, I'll have photos of the turtledeck installation on the web in a
few days in case anyone's interested. Now that this is done, I'm wondering
what to tackle next... Maybe the tail section...
>
> Looking forward to Brodhead!
>
> Tom Brant
> Brooklyn Park, MN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cabane x-bracing |
Arthur,
thanks for the help! I will be contacting you soon. I'd like to try your
idea for my elevator and rudder cables.
Send me some pictures of those terminals... I'd love to see them
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arthur Johnson" <aejohnson(at)email.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cabane x-bracing
>
> DJ,
> I can organise you swaged Ronstan forks on whatever length 1/8th cable you
> like at cost, (no charge for swageing, we do it in house) Ronstan
> RF1508-0404 are $12USD each and 1/8th 316 7 X 19 cable is less than a buck
a
> metre. Air mail to States would be less than $20 and would take about a
> week. If you want further info I can send you digital photos off line. I
am
> useing these swaged terminals for my shoulder harness in my Piet.
> Cheers,
> Arthur Johnson
> Piet and Corvair builder in Oz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Ash
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane x-bracing
>
>
> Do you know if they roll the threads or cut them?
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
> >
> >
> >DJ -
> >Do it the way I did my tail wires - find a friendly local machine shop,
and
> >have them thread some 3/16" stainless, one end left, one end right. The
> >AN662 fittings will then screw on, with check nuts, and you will be set.
> >You can even have them machine the little flat that helps turn them for
> >adjustments. My wires were about $10 each, plus the fittings (they
average
> >$12 ea as an assembly).
> >Craig
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
> >To:
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane x-bracing
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I got to thinking that it may be cool to use stainless streamline
wires
> >for
> > > the cabane x-bracing.
> > >
> > > I called Steen Aero Lab , the only US distributor of Bruntons.
Bruntons
> >is
> > > one of the VERY few companies who make flying wires. They are in
> >Scotland.
> > >
> > > For streamlined stainless cabane wires with AN clevis ends and check
> nuts
> > > the total was $400.
> > >
> > > A bit too steep for me. I was hoping they'd be about $65 a wire or
> less.
> > > Lead time is 12 weeks since they come from overseas.
> > >
> > > So..... I have decided to do stainless 1/8" cable. I called AS&S
today
> >and
> > > had them custom make me the cables with forks swaged on one end. The
> >other
> > > end I will nicopress to a cable eye which screws into the turnbuckle
> >barrel.
> > > The nicopress and turnbuckles will be hidden inside the instument
panel.
> > > The visible end of the wires will have no "ugly" nicopress clamps...
> only
> > > clean looking stainless swaged forks. Total cost for all the wires,
> >forks,
> > > barrels, cable eyes, clevis pins & cotter pins and swaging fees was
> $150.
> > >
> > > Only bummer is there's a 4 week lead time on them. The center section
> > > construction will have to wait til then.
> > >
> > > DJ Vegh
> > > N74DV
> > > Mesa, AZ
> > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> > >
> > >
> > > _
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | some GN-1 laser cut parts still available |
I still have 3 extra rudder horns 2 extra sets of tail wheel rudder horns
and a set of walking beam mounts... all laser cut
If any of you want some for your Piet or GN-1 let me know.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | DJ's turtle deck assy. photo sequence |
for those of you who might have skipped DJ Vegh's web site link, it really
is a testimony to the fact that with some common shop tools, spring clamps,
c-clamps, and racheting cloth straps that you can do a really clean, neat,
quality job on any part of the Pietenpol. Very, very, impressive
workmanship and assy. pics. I think with planes like these being produced
by you guys and the rest of the Piet crowd that folks are going to
gravitate more and more to this design as they see how 'nice' they can
look. I don't know about you guys, but I don't know many folks out there
who have the money for all those rows and rows of gorgeous RV's, Lancairs,
and such that come to Oshkosh. It's great that these fast, expensive
homebuilts put any factory planes to shame in all aspects, it's just that
the Piet is affordable flying and building for the common
man. Er....woman, ok whatever.
Mike C.
oh, here's DJ's
link....... http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/10-27-02.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <margdick(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | GN-1 Weight and Balance |
Anybody out there have main and tail wheel weights with a 65 Continental, I'd
love to have them.
DickG in the W & B process.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tim moody <tj_moody(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DJ's turtle deck assy. photo sequence |
I couldn't't agree more. I have cruised through DJ's
web page and have found the workmanship and details
illustrated by they numerous photos to be very
encouraging. I am glad to see some updated posts on
his site. I haven't ever done a web page before, but
when I start my project I would like to. I will
probably have some very elementary questions about
setting up a site when I get to it, but I am looking
forward to the information that I can glean from this
group.
I am in the middle of building a house after work,
hope to be done in about 3 more months. After that I
hope to start building an airplane. I am drawn to the
affordability and building it myself. I am sure that
I will be looking at DJ's photos and anyone else's to
get ideas on how to construct the various phases. I
have actually purchased Mikes video but haven't had
time to view it yet. I am really looking forward to
doing a fun building project.
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Vydra <jvydra(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | EAA Experimenter 54-57 |
Hi All,
I have just listed the EAA Experimenter...full years 55-56-57..march through nov
1954, on e-bay.
many back issues of SA to come.
Jim Vydra
Springfield, MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DJ's turtle deck assy. photo sequence |
Thanks guys.... :-)
I know many of you have been waiting patiently for new entries. I had expected
to do alot of building this past fall/winter but my other hobby (my car) totally
zapped my time and money.
I've since slowed down with that and have decided to devote most of my free time
back to the plane. Look to see more entries on the site on a semi-weekly basis
for a while.
Hoping to have the center section built as soon as AS&S sends my cabane wires.
Until then I'm working on small odds and ends on the fuse and tail group.
I'd REALLY love to fly this thing in October/November of 2004
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: tim moody
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: DJ's turtle deck assy. photo sequence
I couldn't't agree more. I have cruised through DJ's
web page and have found the workmanship and details
illustrated by they numerous photos to be very
encouraging. I am glad to see some updated posts on
his site. I haven't ever done a web page before, but
when I start my project I would like to. I will
probably have some very elementary questions about
setting up a site when I get to it, but I am looking
forward to the information that I can glean from this
group.
I am in the middle of building a house after work,
hope to be done in about 3 more months. After that I
hope to start building an airplane. I am drawn to the
affordability and building it myself. I am sure that
I will be looking at DJ's photos and anyone else's to
get ideas on how to construct the various phases. I
have actually purchased Mikes video but haven't had
time to view it yet. I am really looking forward to
doing a fun building project.
__________________________________
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan James" <MADjames(at)theknapp.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: let's get started; odds & ends |
Chris,
I am unable to confirm the PFA's view on the subject, and having had most of
the parts welded, brazing has never been an issue. The only parts brazed on
G-BUCO are the tubes passing through the cabane struts and similarly, the
bearing tubes through the torque tube. Paul Prince of Aviation Metalcraft
(makers of the UK Piet metal fuselage) confirms that he does the same.
Alan James
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: let's get started; odds & ends
>
> Alan James,
>
> What does PFA documentation say about brazing 4130?
>
> chris bobka
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alan James <MADjames(at)theknapp.freeserve.co.uk>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: let's get started; odds & ends
>
>
>
> >
> > I know of no-one over here in the UK who admits to having carried out a
> > stress analysis of the wooden Piet. The only chap who may have come
close
> is
> > Jim Wills who designed some built up spars some years ago that now form
> part
> > of the UK plans. Unfortunately, Jim is unwilling to share details of his
> > spars outside the UK (and presumably any other associated information)
in
> > fear of litigation should anything go wrong.
> >
> > We also have a metal tube fuselage option approved for use and built by
> Paul
> > Prince of Aviation Metalcraft, but it bears little resemblance to the
way
> > Bernard designed his.
> >
> > PS - I'll coming over to Brodhead to claim that nice cup of tea. Should
be
> > arriving sometime Friday evening. Don't forget to put the kettle on...
> >
> > Alan James (G-BUCO)
> > The UK Pietenpol Club
> >
> >
> > --- Original Message -----
> > From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: let's get started; odds & ends
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Are there any members of the Pietenpol family or British Piet guys on
> the
> > > list that can help? I know the analysis "could" be done again, but to
> do
> > it
> > > right you need the loads analysis first and I haven't got that either
> > (plus,
> > > even 30 years ago when I got my degree they weren't teaching ANYTHING
> > about
> > > analysis of wood fuselages. I'm using my fathers aero books from the
> late
> > > 30s and 40s along with some ancient NACA reports to learn the "old
> way").
> > > Hank Jarrett
> > >
> > >
> > > 7. Hank asks-
> > > >Does anyone have a copy of a stress analysis that has been done
> > > >on the wood or steel tube Pietenpol?
> > >
> > > There was an analysis done on the steel tube, standard Piet fuselage,
> > > commissioned by Mr. Pietenpol. But as far as having a copy of the
> > analysis,
> > > unless it's in Don Pietenpol's personal family effects from Mr.
> Pietenpol,
> > I
> > > wouldn't think it would be around anymore. If you find it, by all
means
> > > donate it to the EAA Museum! Regarding the analysis done by the
British
> > > Piet guys, that may very well be available today but would likely take
a
> > bit
> > > of scrounging and may require conversion from pounds sterling to
> American
> > > greenbacks... or Whitworth to SAE ;o)
> > >
> > > Happy 4th of July, especially to our British friends! PS- you're
> welcome
> > to
> > > a nice cup of tea with us anytime, and we won't even make it with
water
> > from
> > > Boston harbor!
> > >
> > > Oscar Zuniga
> > > San Antonio, TX
> > > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> > > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Taylorcraft newsgroup |
To Subscribe to the list send a blank message to:
taylorcraft-subscribe(at)topica.com
Great group of guys and gals. INCREDIBLY helpful.
Hank Jarrett
41 BC-12-65
45 BC-12D
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Taylorcraft newsgroup
>
> Does anyone know about a Taylorcraft newsgroup on the web anywhere?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatthe1(at)rochester.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Taylorcraft newsgroup |
Take a look at www.taylorcraft.org web links tab and you will find:
Taylorcraft Owner's Club Email-list!
Join the Taylorcraft Owners Club Email-list and chat with others with an
interest in Taylorcraft! Do one of the following, then follow the
instructions in the return mail. Then sit back and converse with the
millions of Taylorcraft owners and fans worldwide! Questions? contact the
list administrator at tcraft(at)taylorcraft.org
To Subscribe to the list::
Send a blank message to:
taylorcraft-subscribe(at)topica.com
To Unsubscribe:
Send a blank message to:
taylorcraft-unsubscribe(at)topica.com
To Get the digest edition, once a day:
Send a blank message to:
taylorcraft-request-digest(at)topica.com
Look forward to seeing you on the list.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
>
>Does anyone know about a Taylorcraft newsgroup on the web anywhere?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brants" <tmbrant(at)usfamily.net> |
| Subject: | turtledeck installation |
I've uploaded some photos of my turtledeck installation. I'm happy with how it
turned out all though all those small pieces with glue and staples got a bit
messy. What's the best method people have used for removing dry T-88 from wood?
sanding?
Here's the photos.
http://public.fotki.com/tab1324/pietenpol_construction/
Tom Brant, Brooklyn Park, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel" <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | turtledeck installation |
I sanded it. Scraping it can peel up wood, the glue is stronger than the
wood!
But keep in mind that when you varnish, it usually will blend in the T-88.
-Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brants
Subject: Pietenpol-List: turtledeck installation
I've uploaded some photos of my turtledeck installation. I'm happy with how
it turned out all though all those small pieces with glue and staples got a
bit messy. What's the best method people have used for removing dry T-88
from wood? sanding?
Here's the photos.
http://public.fotki.com/tab1324/pietenpol_construction/
Tom Brant, Brooklyn Park, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Rickards <krickards(at)cvci.com> |
Just received my laser cut parts from DJ. They are everything that he said
they were. Anyone building, that needs the parts that DJ has available,
would do well to contact him.
Thanks DJ.
Ken
GN1 2992
Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Young <wry22(at)drexel.edu> |
| Subject: | Powell P.H. Racer |
I was reading my copy of the 1932 Flying and glider manual to check out
the solid axle gear, and ran across the P.H. Racer. I was woundering
if anyone has heard of anyone building one?
-Will
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
THIS year, guys, I want to bring name tags. Last year I talked to people
that turned out to be from the list and I never knew it until later.
Gene Rambo
arriving friday afternoon until sunday morning
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 7/7/03 9:29:31 AM Central Daylight Time, BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
writes:
<< Congrats Chuck!!
I am glad for your success. Now, knowing that you have spent a fair amount
of time refining your airplane, I have a question. Would you please summarize
for us the configuration changes you've made since you first got off the
ground. It sounds like you've arrived at a configuration that is really working
good for you. I am aware of the engine change you made. So, for the benefit
of those of us not there yet and to tap into your "lessons learned".... What
other refinements have made your airplane so sweet?
T. Bowden >>
Terry, et all,
I think we all know that Red airplanes always fly better than any other
color, however, the biggest change I've made is obviously the engine change. I
have the 'Short' fuselage, and originally had the ol' Model A engine. I had a
lot of various problems with the Model A during the 22 hours logged with it last
summer. I spent much time, effort, and money trying to get it right, but
never did feel good about the reliability of the engine. I've spent the past six
months reconfiguring my plane to the Continental A65 engine. I now have a
lot of confidence in the reliability of the engine, and have almost twice the
power to boot. I had the cylinders 'Channel Chromed' at Aircraft Cylinders of
America in Tulsa, installed new std pistons / rings, std bearings, valves,
seats, guides, springs, Slick Mag kit, for a zero time engine. I built a new
10.7 gal cowling tank, and now can carry 20 gal fuel onbd. I made a .025
stainless steel firewall with a flange all the way around to accept the engine
cowl.
I made a fiberglass splash from a J3 Cub nose bowl, then laid up the nose
bowl in the plug, and made the cowling in two piece - flat wrap top half, flat
wrap bottom half, attached them to the two J3 fiberglass nose bowl halves with
rivets and T88, and used cam locks to attach the entire cowling to the
firewall, without any of the cowling touching the engine. I estimated the W&B,
and
came up with an engine mount that is 8" longer than the A. C. Hanft mount -
dated 3-15-67. I used the same O. D. for the tubing, but used thicker wall
tubing. I made a paper trace of the J 3 eyebrows and used .040 3003 material
for
them. For the prop I built, I used the same thickness at the hub, and built a
72 X42 Birch prop. I laid up Kevlar at the leading edge of the blades, and
then used light fiberglass wrap on the entire blades to the root area. I made
the carb heat box from .040 steel, then epoxy primer inside and out, and red
fuel proof paint on the exterior. I built the exhaust pipes two into one on
each side, and pointed them down and out a little. Someday I'll make a new
exhaust system to extend the pipes all the way under the belly behind the bunji's,
so I can install a smoke system. I used Vi Kapler empenage hinges, and also
made them 'gapless' hinges, with triangle pieces and fabric across the gap.
The plans built barn door aileron hinges are also 'gapless', using a piece of
fabric. I made the front cockpit cover from sheet metal, hinged at the
center, in a 'butterfly' type install. I'm still working on putting brakes on
the
plane. The heel brakes, lines, and reservoir are done and installed, and now I
have to cut and extend the axles to accept the wheels with the rotors. Gotta
have brakes to operate at all the airports that I expect to visit on the way
to Brodhead / Oshkosh in a couple of weeks. I even bought a handheld ICOM
radio for the trip. Doug is going to let me use his ELT, so that still has to
be
installed, too. Almost ready for the 'Big Adventure' !!! YEE HAAAWW !!!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
See y'all at Brodhead / Oshkosh !!
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 7/10/03 7:04:27 PM Central Daylight Time, rambog(at)erols.com
writes:
<< THIS year, guys, I want to bring name tags. Last year I talked to people
that turned out to be from the list and I never knew it until later. >>
Gene,
I think name tags are a great idea !!
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 Weight and Balance |
In a message dated 7/9/03 10:54:48 AM Central Daylight Time,
margdick(at)peganet.com writes:
<< Anybody out there have main and tail wheel weights with a 65 Continental,
I'd love to have them. >>
Here are the figures on my plane:
ITEM WIEGHT ARM MOMENT
L. Main 296 17 5032
R. Main 312 17 5304
Tail 13.5 161 2173.5
Fuel -Wing Tank 0 33 0
Fuel - Cowl Tank 0 8 0
Pilot 0 64 0
Front Seat 0 31 0
Empty Weight- 621.5 12509.5
12509.5 / 621.5 = 20.13 - 11 = 9.13
Empty Weight C.G. - 9.13" Aft of L.E
The plans show the leading edge is 7 1/2" behind the firewall, and my wing is
tilted back an additional 3 1/2", so that's where the 11 inches is subtracted
from the 20.13
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: brass dataplates |
Oscar,
Got mine also. It's great. Nice design and appropriate recgonition and
respect for BHP.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Visiting Brodhead |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
I'm new to the list and am in the final stages of deciding what to
build, fascinated by the Piet. Since I'm vacationing soon in the
Midwest I thought I'd stop by Brodhead to fuel the decision. I'm
concerned about a number of things: a) as a low-time pilot without (as
yet) a tail wheel rating, b) who has some experience with wood-working
but no experience tinkering with engines, is a Piet too ambitious a
project for me? I've got a good mechanical aptitude and am not bad with
tools, but wonder if I would be wiser starting with a standard (and much
more expensive) kit as a project, such as a STOL CH701. But I love the
satisfaction of working with wood which is one of the things steering me
toward a Piet. Any comments would be appreciated, and I'm especially
curious to hear from any New England Piet people, as my introduction to
the aircraft was a gorgeous one from Maine that I saw a couple of years
ago at an Ultralight fly-in in New Hampshire.
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Visiting Brodhead |
Hi! I too am new to the group and to building airplanes. The only previous
experience I've had is I built a pair of "Airbike" (ultralight) wings. I bought
an abandoned project, started by someone who really knew what he was doing.
I've not been sorry..in fact, I'm tickled to death, because I got a really good
deal on it, I've saved GOBS of time and I've learned a lot about craftsmanship
by observing what my predecessor did. Good luck.....(whatadya got to
loose?)....Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
| Subject: | Visiting Brodhead |
Mark,
Welcome to the list.
If you like working with wood and have good mechanical aptitude you will
probably enjoy learning the other skills you have to learn to build a Piet.
The main question is how much of the work you want to do, any plans built
plane is going to be a lot more work than a kit.
My opinion, the less hours you have when you start flying tail wheel the
better.
Warning, if you come to the Piet fly-in at Brodhead, you may not want to
build anything else.
Skip
-->
> I'm concerned about a number of things: a) as a low-time pilot without
(as
>yet) a tail wheel rating, b) who has some experience with wood-working but
no experience tinkering with engines, is a Piet too ambitious a project for
me? I've got a good mechanical
aptitude and am not bad with tools, but wonder if I would be wiser starting
with a standard (and much more expensive) kit as a project,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Visiting Brodhead |
Mark.....On my original response to your message, I let two thoughts run
together. The abandoned project that I referred to is a Pietenpol Aircamper
project. The only reason for mentioning the Airbike wings was to give you some
idea
of how much (little) experience I have had with airplane construction. In
fact, I have bought two incomplete Aircamper projects. I bought the first one a
year ago. Then in November, before I got under way with the first Aircamper, I
found another one which fit my list of requirements even better than the first
one did. So I bought it too. I decided to complete the second one then deal
with disposing of the first one. I call the first one Piete and the second one
RePiete......Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick Driscoll" <patrick36(at)usfamily.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Visiting Brodhead |
Mark,
Have you looked at the KR type aircraft.
They are wood and fiberglass as opposed to wood and fabric.
Pat Driscoll
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brants" <tmbrant(at)usfamily.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Visiting Brodhead |
Mark,
I think if you make the descision to build a piet, you won't be
dissapointed. It's probably one of the easiest aircraft to build and of
course you'll have the great support of everyone on this group. If you like
woodwork like I do, you'll enjoy the construction of the piet. Most of it
so far has been pretty intuitive if you are decent with woodworking tools.
There have been a few challenges but wood is so forgiving that it's pretty
hard to make a really costly mistake.
Of course the opinions you'll receive on this list are quite biased toward
the Piet. I would agree with others who've said, once you attend Brodhead,
you won't want to build anything else.
Tom Brant, Brooklyn Park, MN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Visiting Brodhead
>
>
> I'm new to the list and am in the final stages of deciding what to
> build, fascinated by the Piet. Since I'm vacationing soon in the
> Midwest I thought I'd stop by Brodhead to fuel the decision. I'm
> concerned about a number of things: a) as a low-time pilot without (as
> yet) a tail wheel rating, b) who has some experience with wood-working
> but no experience tinkering with engines, is a Piet too ambitious a
> project for me? I've got a good mechanical aptitude and am not bad with
> tools, but wonder if I would be wiser starting with a standard (and much
> more expensive) kit as a project, such as a STOL CH701. But I love the
> satisfaction of working with wood which is one of the things steering me
> toward a Piet. Any comments would be appreciated, and I'm especially
> curious to hear from any New England Piet people, as my introduction to
> the aircraft was a gorgeous one from Maine that I saw a couple of years
> ago at an Ultralight fly-in in New Hampshire.
>
> Mark Hodgson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Neal" <lneal(at)ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Visiting Brodhead |
I say we throw the bum out....
FIBERGLASS... humpf! ;-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Driscoll" <patrick36(at)usfamily.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Visiting Brodhead
>
> Mark,
> Have you looked at the KR type aircraft.
> They are wood and fiberglass as opposed to wood and fabric.
> Pat Driscoll
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Visiting Brodhead |
My 5 year old just walked in the room and said "Dad, why are you laughing??"
He just wouldn't understand....
Thanks Larry.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Neal" <lneal(at)ev1.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Visiting Brodhead
>
> I say we throw the bum out....
> FIBERGLASS... humpf! ;-)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrick Driscoll" <patrick36(at)usfamily.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Visiting Brodhead
>
>
>
> >
> > Mark,
> > Have you looked at the KR type aircraft.
> > They are wood and fiberglass as opposed to wood and fabric.
> > Pat Driscoll
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick Driscoll" <patrick36(at)usfamily.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Visiting Brodhead |
Just so you people know, I have looked at the pietenpol and thought of
building one but I have built a KR2 (1974 to 1987) and I want to build
another much modified version so I can get cross country a little faster
than a Piet.
I can rent a J3 or Champ for low and slow fun.
I lost my med and am waiting to see how slow I'll have to make this KR
for the sport pilot lic. If it's too slow, I'll build the Piet.
Pat Driscoll
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Neal" <lneal(at)ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Visiting Brodhead |
Well, actually, it's thanks to you Jim.
I have started building again, thanks for the talk and the gift of the
magnificently crafted tail feathers! It was good to get together with you
and Max, just what I needed to get off my butt and get after things.
And let no-one mistake that I was kidding, the KR-2 is a great little
airplane. I'm also working (again) on my PIK-20 sailplane, which is all
fiberglass. After being a 1-26 driver for quite a few years, in sailplane
circles I can now be referred to as a glasshole!
Larry
(Long Fuse, Corvair, and Tall Wheels.)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Visiting Brodhead
>
> My 5 year old just walked in the room and said "Dad, why are you
laughing??"
>
> He just wouldn't understand....
>
> Thanks Larry.....
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Neal" <lneal(at)ev1.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Visiting Brodhead
>
>
> >
> > I say we throw the bum out....
> > FIBERGLASS... humpf! ;-)
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Patrick Driscoll" <patrick36(at)usfamily.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Visiting Brodhead
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Mark,
> > > Have you looked at the KR type aircraft.
> > > They are wood and fiberglass as opposed to wood and fabric.
> > > Pat Driscoll
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | PIK-20 / was Visiting Brodhead |
Which model PIK-20; is it the E? And being standard type, are you an A&P or
how do you get it signed off?
Jim Ash
>
>Well, actually, it's thanks to you Jim.
>
>I have started building again, thanks for the talk and the gift of the
>magnificently crafted tail feathers! It was good to get together with you
>and Max, just what I needed to get off my butt and get after things.
>
>And let no-one mistake that I was kidding, the KR-2 is a great little
>airplane. I'm also working (again) on my PIK-20 sailplane, which is all
>fiberglass. After being a 1-26 driver for quite a few years, in sailplane
>circles I can now be referred to as a glasshole!
>
>Larry
>(Long Fuse, Corvair, and Tall Wheels.)
>
>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Visiting Brodhead
>
>
>
> >
> > My 5 year old just walked in the room and said "Dad, why are you
>laughing??"
> >
> > He just wouldn't understand....
> >
> > Thanks Larry.....
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Larry Neal" <lneal(at)ev1.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Visiting Brodhead
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I say we throw the bum out....
> > > FIBERGLASS... humpf! ;-)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Patrick Driscoll" <patrick36(at)usfamily.net>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Visiting Brodhead
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Mark,
> > > > Have you looked at the KR type aircraft.
> > > > They are wood and fiberglass as opposed to wood and fabric.
> > > > Pat Driscoll
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Neal" <lneal(at)ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PIK-20 / was Visiting Brodhead |
Jim,
Your name sounds familiar, have we met?
It's a PIK 20b, I'm refinishing it and will get signed off with the annual,
(in about a year I think ;-)).
No, I'm not an A&P, always wished I'd gotten that, but maybe a few years
down the road I will do that.
I have quite a bit of help, myself, Jim Tsillas, and Mr. H (an F-16 driver)
are conspiring with mr. Dick Johnson in rebuilding a few of these birds.
It's all good stuff, but nothing like the Piet.
Are you building a Piet? Are you a glider pilot?
Give me an email separately on the glider stuff, If you're one of the
undecided, quit worrying, start building a Piet!
Larry
>
>
> >
> >Well, actually, it's thanks to you Jim.
> >
> >I have started building again, thanks for the talk and the gift of the
> >magnificently crafted tail feathers! It was good to get together with
you
> >and Max, just what I needed to get off my butt and get after things.
> >
> >And let no-one mistake that I was kidding, the KR-2 is a great little
> >airplane. I'm also working (again) on my PIK-20 sailplane, which is all
> >fiberglass. After being a 1-26 driver for quite a few years, in
sailplane
> >circles I can now be referred to as a glasshole!
> >
> >Larry
> >(Long Fuse, Corvair, and Tall Wheels.)
> >
> >
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Visiting Brodhead
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > My 5 year old just walked in the room and said "Dad, why are you
> >laughing??"
> > >
> > > He just wouldn't understand....
> > >
> > > Thanks Larry.....
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Larry Neal" <lneal(at)ev1.net>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Visiting Brodhead
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I say we throw the bum out....
> > > > FIBERGLASS... humpf! ;-)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Patrick Driscoll" <patrick36(at)usfamily.net>
> > > > To:
> > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Visiting Brodhead
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Mark,
> > > > > Have you looked at the KR type aircraft.
> > > > > They are wood and fiberglass as opposed to wood and fabric.
> > > > > Pat Driscoll
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | go / no-go dimensions |
does anyone have a nicopress go/no-go guage they could measure with a set of
calipers?
I need to know what the acceptable thickness is for a 1/8" copper sleeve
after being compressed. I can't find my go/no-go guage anywhere and I want
to see if my nicopress tool is working properly.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: go / no-go dimensions |
Are not the specs for the go no go in Ac 43?
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: go / no-go dimensions
>
> does anyone have a nicopress go/no-go guage they could measure with a set
of
> calipers?
>
> I need to know what the acceptable thickness is for a 1/8" copper sleeve
> after being compressed. I can't find my go/no-go guage anywhere and I
want
> to see if my nicopress tool is working properly.
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: go / no-go dimensions |
i could not find them in the 43-13
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go / no-go dimensions
>
> Are not the specs for the go no go in Ac 43?
>
> Chris Bobka
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: DJ Vegh <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: go / no-go dimensions
>
>
> >
> > does anyone have a nicopress go/no-go guage they could measure with a
set
> of
> > calipers?
> >
> > I need to know what the acceptable thickness is for a 1/8" copper sleeve
> > after being compressed. I can't find my go/no-go guage anywhere and I
> want
> > to see if my nicopress tool is working properly.
> >
> > DJ Vegh
> > N74DV
> > Mesa, AZ
> > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> >
> >
> > -
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PIK-20 / was Visiting Brodhead |
Larry -
I've been in northern New Hampshire for a year and a half, about 15 years
in Florida before that, with a year of Florida carved out for the western
suburbs of Chicago. My first rating was private glider in the early 80's in
New Jersey.
I'm on a number if aircraft lists, a live steam list, and several for metal
working of various sorts including sheet metal forming, casting, and
machining. I've been active with the EAA and Corvair groups in Florida and
Chicagoland, but I haven't really gotten connected to them here yet.
I've pretty much decided on building a Piet, but I've got a few projects
here that need my attention before my focus goes to a new one, like
erecting a new shop building. I've just spent a pile of money on some other
things this month, so I'm juggling when to buy the Piet plans and other
stuff, but it will be within a month or so.
Where are you located?
Jim Ash
>
>Jim,
>
>Your name sounds familiar, have we met?
>It's a PIK 20b, I'm refinishing it and will get signed off with the annual,
>(in about a year I think ;-)).
>No, I'm not an A&P, always wished I'd gotten that, but maybe a few years
>down the road I will do that.
>I have quite a bit of help, myself, Jim Tsillas, and Mr. H (an F-16 driver)
>are conspiring with mr. Dick Johnson in rebuilding a few of these birds.
>It's all good stuff, but nothing like the Piet.
>Are you building a Piet? Are you a glider pilot?
>Give me an email separately on the glider stuff, If you're one of the
>undecided, quit worrying, start building a Piet!
>
>Larry
>
>
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Powell P.H. Racer |
I just got home from Arlington(Washington state)
The was one on the bulliten board for sale.
I think it was $8500. If This post had come in
before I left on Thurs morning......!
I don't suppose anyone is going there tomorrow?
Or knows someone who might be?
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Young" <wry22(at)drexel.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Powell P.H. Racer
>
> I was reading my copy of the 1932 Flying and glider manual to check out
> the solid axle gear, and ran across the P.H. Racer. I was woundering
> if anyone has heard of anyone building one?
>
> -Will
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: go / no-go dimensions |
Yes p7-34
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
Quarterly newsletters on time
Reasonable document reprints
1-518-731-6800
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go / no-go dimensions
>
> Are not the specs for the go no go in Ac 43?
>
> Chris Bobka
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: DJ Vegh <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: go / no-go dimensions
>
>
> >
> > does anyone have a nicopress go/no-go guage they could measure with a
set
> of
> > calipers?
> >
> > I need to know what the acceptable thickness is for a 1/8" copper sleeve
> > after being compressed. I can't find my go/no-go guage anywhere and I
> want
> > to see if my nicopress tool is working properly.
> >
> > DJ Vegh
> > N74DV
> > Mesa, AZ
> > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> >
> >
> > -
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | go dimensions for nicopress |
DJ,
Here is what my tool from ATS measures out to. The gauge is simply a "go" gauge.
If a slot of the following width can slip over the major dimension of each
groove of the compressed part of the nicopress, then it is good to go.
1/16" oval sleeve both are .185"
1/16" stop sleeve
3/32" oval sleeve all three are .256"
3/32" stop sleeve
1/8" stop sleeve
1/8" oval sleeve all four are .340"
5/32" stop sleeve
3/16" stop sleeve
7/32" stop sleeve
It appears that the AC 43 merely has the go no go for the swaged type cable ends.
Seems the book could have been better by including the above dimensions considering
all the useless sneers it contains about safety.
chris bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: go / no-go dimensions |
Cy,
Not in my book. It gives length after swaging but that is not very useful.
chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go / no-go dimensions
>
> Yes p7-34
> Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
> Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
> www.bellanca-championclub.com
> Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
> Quarterly newsletters on time
> Reasonable document reprints
> 1-518-731-6800
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go / no-go dimensions
>
>
>
> >
> > Are not the specs for the go no go in Ac 43?
> >
> > Chris Bobka
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: DJ Vegh <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: go / no-go dimensions
> >
> >
> > >
> > > does anyone have a nicopress go/no-go guage they could measure with a
> set
> > of
> > > calipers?
> > >
> > > I need to know what the acceptable thickness is for a 1/8" copper
sleeve
> > > after being compressed. I can't find my go/no-go guage anywhere and I
> > want
> > > to see if my nicopress tool is working properly.
> > >
> > > DJ Vegh
> > > N74DV
> > > Mesa, AZ
> > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> > >
> > >
> > > -
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | more on the go gauge for nicopress |
DJ,
I found the following dimesions in EAA Aircraft Volume One File Number 6 on Aircraft
Homebuilding Tips, page 34. It is an article from some early 60's issue
of Sport Aviation by Kalman E. Saufnauer, EAA 1201. The drawing of the gauge
is by Stan Dzik, EAA 15.
It appears that the article addresses oval sleeves only. Why the minor disparities
with my gauge, I don't know.
1/16" sleeve .190-.195" go dimension
3/32" sleeve .255-.265" go dimension
1/8" sleeve .343-.353" go dimension
5/32" sleeve .380-.390" go dimension
Chris Bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: go / no-go dimensions |
Sorry I did not look closely enough.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
Quarterly newsletters on time
Reasonable document reprints
1-518-731-6800
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go / no-go dimensions
>
> Cy,
>
> Not in my book. It gives length after swaging but that is not very
useful.
>
> chris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go / no-go dimensions
>
>
> >
> > Yes p7-34
> > Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
> > Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
> > www.bellanca-championclub.com
> > Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
> > Quarterly newsletters on time
> > Reasonable document reprints
> > 1-518-731-6800
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go / no-go dimensions
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Are not the specs for the go no go in Ac 43?
> > >
> > > Chris Bobka
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: DJ Vegh <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: go / no-go dimensions
> > >
> > >
>
> > > >
> > > > does anyone have a nicopress go/no-go guage they could measure with
a
> > set
> > > of
> > > > calipers?
> > > >
> > > > I need to know what the acceptable thickness is for a 1/8" copper
> sleeve
> > > > after being compressed. I can't find my go/no-go guage anywhere and
I
> > > want
> > > > to see if my nicopress tool is working properly.
> > > >
> > > > DJ Vegh
> > > > N74DV
> > > > Mesa, AZ
> > > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <margdick(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Wing to Center Section Gap Covers |
What style aluminum is generally used for these gap covers? I thought I'd use
some leftover .010 but is seems way too light.
Also, thanks for the response to the W & B question and one other question I asked
before that that I can't remember.
DickG.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing to Center Section Gap Covers |
Dick,
Stretch it tight,screw it down and don't worry. It's not going anywhere.
Corky with heavier alum which I don't need.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Visiting Brodhead |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
Many thanks to those who responded to my note. This seems like a pretty
good list--hope to meet a few of you at Brodhead.
Do not archive
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Visiting Brodhead |
Any kin to Ted Hodgson who was a Program Manager at Chance Vought A/C and
developed a beautiful model of an 18-cylinder radial engine?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | brass data plate |
Oscar---beautiful job of the data plates. Just got mine in the
mail. Very nice.
Thank you !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: brass data plate |
Oscar,
I agree with Mike about the data plate. Great job!
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing to Center Section Gap Covers |
I got a small roll of flashing from Home Depot, cut to width on my band saw
(wood blade) and screwed it on. It's really thin. Nothing flew off yet
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <margdick(at)peganet.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing to Center Section Gap Covers
>
> What style aluminum is generally used for these gap covers? I thought I'd
use some leftover .010 but is seems way too light.
>
> Also, thanks for the response to the W & B question and one other
question I asked before that that I can't remember.
>
> DickG.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
guys--- neat site for anyone interested in wire
wheels. checkout: http://www.buchananspokes.com/aboutus.htm
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rambog(at)erols.com" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
No, if anyone is interested in wire wheels they should contact me . . .
I've got two pairs, one more than I need.
Gene ;)
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Michael D Cuy Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:43:57 -0400
Subject: Pietenpol-List: spokes & rims
guys--- neat site for anyone interested in wire
wheels. checkout: http://www.buchananspokes.com/aboutus.htm
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Lowell Frank wrote up a neat article that is on Gran't old BPA website
still-------GREAT reading for any of you Ford powered guys. Met Lowell in
1999 with his Ford Piet (now has a radial in it) and this guy knows his
Ford engines. He can make them reliable and put out some good
power. Check this out if you
like: http://members.aol.com/hpieth/bpa/lowell.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Because so many of you asked about the wheels, and because I posted this all
before and received no responses, I am responding to the list rather than
individually. You guys can "talk amongst yourselves."
I have now two pairs of wheels. Neither pair has, or is set up to accept
brakes. One pair are original aircraft wheels from the 1920's. They do not
appear to have ever been mounted on an airplane because there is no wear
whatsoever on the bushings. They are 24x4 wheels as called for in the
plans, which means that the rim diameter is 16" and the tire is 4" tall, for
a total of 24". The axle size is 1 1/2", the bub width is 6". I
disassembled them at the Smithsonian restoration facility and bead blasted
and chemical treated the entire wheels, ordered new spokes from Buchanan's
(because of rusty spokes) and trued up the wheels, painted black chromate
primer.
The other pair are 26x4 wheels that were built up, I believe, as part of a
batch that were made at Brodhead. You can see several examples on various
projects around Brodhead. 26x4 wheels are also mentioned on the plans. The
wheel is 18" rim to rim, with a 4" tire. Same 1 1/2" axle, same 6" wide
hub, these are stainless hubs, I believe the rims are aluminum, and new
spokes. They have tires and tubes already on them, some kind of motorcycle
tires. I paid a fairly stiff price for these, although it is the going
price for all of the sets of these wheels I have seen go up for sale, which
has been rare.
I have no strong feelings at this time which ones I end up using. I have
pros and cons about both, although I am leaning toward the larger wheels
just for looks. I will be going to Brodhead, and would deliver the wheels
there if someone wants one pair or the other. I will not have room to take
the wheels just to show, as I will be bringing home my Model A engine from
Dick Weeden's at Brodhead.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
In our "for what it's worth dept" I finally weighed the piet this weekend.
I was amazed. 602 lbs. I thought that it would be a lot more.
My CG with my big butt is at 17.9. hmm that's under 20 so I'm ok.
Carl
check out my webpage at http://members.core.com/skycarl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Young <wry22(at)drexel.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Powell P.H. Racer |
Clif,
I am not really interested in buying one right now, as I have just
started on my Pietenpol, I was simply woundering if any has/had built
one or seen one fly because I would be interested to hear how they
handled, and was thinking it would make a neat project in a few years
after I finish the Pietenpol.
Will
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Carl
Long or short fuse and what engine? What is the weight on tail?
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another W&B
>
> In our "for what it's worth dept" I finally weighed the piet this weekend.
> I was amazed. 602 lbs. I thought that it would be a lot more.
> My CG with my big butt is at 17.9. hmm that's under 20 so I'm ok.
> Carl
> check out my webpage at http://members.core.com/skycarl
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | great empty weight, Carl |
Carl--- 602 lbs. empty is a GREAT number !!!!! And your 17.9" aft of
wing CG is ok too. Mine full aft was 19.25" or something like that----very
close to the limit so I fuel up when I can.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Powell P.H. Racer |
My recollections of looking at the Powell racer is that you have to be about
5 feettall to fit in it.
chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Young" <wry22(at)drexel.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Powell P.H. Racer
>
> Clif,
> I am not really interested in buying one right now, as I have just
> started on my Pietenpol, I was simply woundering if any has/had built
> one or seen one fly because I would be interested to hear how they
> handled, and was thinking it would make a neat project in a few years
> after I finish the Pietenpol.
> Will
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lauritz Larsen" <pietlars(at)earthlink.net> |
Gene;
Noted your mention of Dick Weeden.
A friend of mine wants to contact him about getting an 'A' prop adapter. Do
you have a current phone no., E-Mail address or a mailing address for Dick?
Would appreciate any of the above info that you might have.
Thanks
Lou Larsen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wire wheels
>
> Because so many of you asked about the wheels, and because I posted this
all
> before and received no responses, I am responding to the list rather than
> individually. You guys can "talk amongst yourselves."
>
> I have now two pairs of wheels. Neither pair has, or is set up to accept
> brakes. One pair are original aircraft wheels from the 1920's. They do
not
> appear to have ever been mounted on an airplane because there is no wear
> whatsoever on the bushings. They are 24x4 wheels as called for in the
> plans, which means that the rim diameter is 16" and the tire is 4" tall,
for
> a total of 24". The axle size is 1 1/2", the bub width is 6". I
> disassembled them at the Smithsonian restoration facility and bead blasted
> and chemical treated the entire wheels, ordered new spokes from Buchanan's
> (because of rusty spokes) and trued up the wheels, painted black chromate
> primer.
>
> The other pair are 26x4 wheels that were built up, I believe, as part of a
> batch that were made at Brodhead. You can see several examples on various
> projects around Brodhead. 26x4 wheels are also mentioned on the plans.
The
> wheel is 18" rim to rim, with a 4" tire. Same 1 1/2" axle, same 6" wide
> hub, these are stainless hubs, I believe the rims are aluminum, and new
> spokes. They have tires and tubes already on them, some kind of
motorcycle
> tires. I paid a fairly stiff price for these, although it is the going
> price for all of the sets of these wheels I have seen go up for sale,
which
> has been rare.
>
> I have no strong feelings at this time which ones I end up using. I have
> pros and cons about both, although I am leaning toward the larger wheels
> just for looks. I will be going to Brodhead, and would deliver the wheels
> there if someone wants one pair or the other. I will not have room to
take
> the wheels just to show, as I will be bringing home my Model A engine from
> Dick Weeden's at Brodhead.
>
> Gene
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Dick,,, I have the long fuse with a corvair. The vair is bare bones , hand
prop no fan.
The weight on my tail wheel at arm 169 was 20 lbs. Also, my axle center was
5.25" forward of the LE.
Moving that wing back really helps get that CG.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another W&B
>
> Carl
> Long or short fuse and what engine? What is the weight on tail?
> Dick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another W&B
>
>
> >
> > In our "for what it's worth dept" I finally weighed the piet this
weekend.
> > I was amazed. 602 lbs. I thought that it would be a lot more.
> > My CG with my big butt is at 17.9. hmm that's under 20 so I'm ok.
> > Carl
> > check out my webpage at http://members.core.com/skycarl
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | wing back how far, Carl ? |
Carl-- out of curiosity, how far back aft of vertical did you shift your
wing on your long fuse, non-elect. Corvair Pietenpol Air Camper
? Again---way to go. This must be getting exciting !!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "malcolm Zirges" <macz(at)macsells.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A Power |
Thank you Mike! The pointer to the Model A engine article was very helpful.
I have several Model A engines to use in my Piet but it is getting hard to
find local "old timers" who have some experience with the ins-and-outs of
the engine.
Cordially, Mac in Oregon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A Power
>
> Lowell Frank wrote up a neat article that is on Gran't old BPA website
> still-------GREAT reading for any of you Ford powered guys. Met Lowell in
> 1999 with his Ford Piet (now has a radial in it) and this guy knows his
> Ford engines. He can make them reliable and put out some good
> power. Check this out if you
> like: http://members.aol.com/hpieth/bpa/lowell.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Mac wrote-
>it is getting hard to find local "old timers" who have some experience
>with the ins-and-outs of the engine.
Mac, where in Oregon are you located? There are quite a few old Ford
aficionados scattered around the state. If you're in southern Oregon, look
up a gent named Ted Roner in Medford. He used to be one of my business
partners... now retired (engineer). He has had his hands on many, many of
the old Fords and still has a shop full of projects. Not a real chatty guy
but he knows all about those old babbitt bearings and stuff. (541) 772-4892
Also there in Medford are other car restorers who can help with engine
rebuilds... I think there is an antique restoration club there. Another
gent you might look up is Jack Hamilton in Central Point (just outside of
Medford). Jack was pretty much born and raised in J-3's and his brother
flies a souped-up Pacer out of their family strip in the mountains. Jack
knows the old cars very well, knows the restorers, and also has a shop full
of old car projects. He's a retired school teacher; (541) 664-1568 or
jshamilton(at)wave.net. You should be able to get some good assistance from
either of these fellows.
Oh, and somewhere right on I-5 up around Cottage Grove is a guy who always
has old cars (restored) for sale, on a bluff overlooking the Interstate. I
understand he is quite the restorer as well, but I don't recall his name.
Ted or Jack would know.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seibert Bob-r18643 <Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com> |
| Subject: | New Weight & Balance |
Hey Corky came through again!
I flew over to his place Saturday and picked up that metal prop.
He has a really pretty bird and is just as much of a gentleman as you would suspect
from his emails!
Great little airport too. It looks just the way you would picture a place called
Bluebird Hill.
I am glad to have gone over and wish I could have stayed longer.
Well, I am finally "in the envelope" on W&B and waiting for the DAR to come and
bless this thing!
I came in at 584 pounds total (Checked it twice) with 22 lbs on the tailwheel at
180.5 inches from the leading edge datum.
(Long Fuse, 1 piece wing and A-65 engine)
My mains are 2.8 inches behind the datum. I wind up at 19.5 inches for the worst
case CG so I guess I am "in"....even if it is at the aft limit.
The motor mount is extended 3" and the wing is moved back 2" already.
I guess I will see how it flies before moving/changing much more.
The metal prop on the nose and some liposuction on the tailwheel assembly really
did the trick. (Just replacing the RV tailwheel alone got rid of 2 pounds!)
Stuck my 2 INCH numbers on last night. Put gas in it and now am waiting for the
hurricane crud to blow out so I can taxi test the "Yellow Peril".
We didn't even get a rainshower out of it but we sure got some wind.
Bob Seibert
NX23TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Weight & Balance |
My wife has seen me hang out with various groups over the years (amateur
radio, sailing, woodworking, aviation, etc, etc) and typically regards my
"friends" as very strange people (and usually rightly so...)
Then I tell her about these types of stories and she usually says something
along the lines of "really? hey, these are good people".....
She's right, somewhat understated, but (as usual) she's right......
Jim in Plano.....
appreciative of even getting to listen in..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seibert Bob-r18643" <Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Weight & Balance
>
> Hey Corky came through again!
> I flew over to his place Saturday and picked up that metal prop.
> He has a really pretty bird and is just as much of a gentleman as you
would suspect from his emails!
> Great little airport too. It looks just the way you would picture a place
called Bluebird Hill.
> I am glad to have gone over and wish I could have stayed longer.
>
> Well, I am finally "in the envelope" on W&B and waiting for the DAR to
come and bless this thing!
> I came in at 584 pounds total (Checked it twice) with 22 lbs on the
tailwheel at 180.5 inches from the leading edge datum.
> (Long Fuse, 1 piece wing and A-65 engine)
> My mains are 2.8 inches behind the datum. I wind up at 19.5 inches for the
worst case CG so I guess I am "in"....even if it is at the aft limit.
> The motor mount is extended 3" and the wing is moved back 2" already.
> I guess I will see how it flies before moving/changing much more.
> The metal prop on the nose and some liposuction on the tailwheel assembly
really did the trick. (Just replacing the RV tailwheel alone got rid of 2
pounds!)
>
> Stuck my 2 INCH numbers on last night. Put gas in it and now am waiting
for the hurricane crud to blow out so I can taxi test the "Yellow Peril".
> We didn't even get a rainshower out of it but we sure got some wind.
> Bob Seibert
> NX23TX
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Vydra <jvydra(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Somewhere in the mountain of stuff i have is a maintenance manual on the Model
A engine. Will try to remember to post when i find it.
Jim Vydra
Springfield, MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Botsford" <botsford7(at)hot.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Low & Slow Fly-in |
EAA Chapter 59 Waco, Texas will be having a "Low&Slow" Fly-In on Saturday
September 20. It will be held at the McGregor Executive Airport (PWG).
There will be a free Fish Fry starting at 11:30 am until the fish is gone.
Aurora Aviation the FBO has agreed to give a discount on gas that day. We
will be putting out a flyer with a coupon for the discount a bit later. Let
us know if you want one. We hope to attract a number of the Low & Slow type
aircraft so some of those who are anticipating the proposed Sport Pilots
License can see what some qualifying aircraft are like. I hope that the
Piet/GN-1s have a good representation. If you want to be put on a list for
more information let me know and I will take care of it.
Jon Botsford
botsford7(at)hot.rr.com
Looking for Corky to come over!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rambog(at)erols.com" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Low & Slow Fly-in |
Until the fish "is" gone?? You have someone special in attendance that can
feed the entire crowd with just one fish?
Gene :)
(professional smarta**)
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Jon Botsford botsford7(at)hot.rr.com
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:35:40 -0500
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Low & Slow Fly-in
EAA Chapter 59 Waco, Texas will be having a "Low&Slow" Fly-In on Saturday
September 20. It will be held at the McGregor Executive Airport (PWG).
There will be a free Fish Fry starting at 11:30 am until the fish is gone.
Aurora Aviation the FBO has agreed to give a discount on gas that day. We
will be putting out a flyer with a coupon for the discount a bit later. Let
us know if you want one. We hope to attract a number of the Low & Slow type
aircraft so some of those who are anticipating the proposed Sport Pilots
License can see what some qualifying aircraft are like. I hope that the
Piet/GN-1s have a good representation. If you want to be put on a list for
more information let me know and I will take care of it.
Jon Botsford
botsford7(at)hot.rr.com
Looking for Corky to come over!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low & Slow Fly-in |
| From: | Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
>
> Until the fish "is" gone?? You have someone special in attendance that can
> feed the entire crowd with just one fish?
>
> Gene :)
"One fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish; it's all the same to me."
--Dr. Seuss' cat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Low & Slow Fly-in |
Pieters,
This discussion of ises and r-rahs bring back memories of the 4th grade and
MISS Greer pounding that grammar into our non receptive brains. 1932 was a
tough year all the way around.
Sir, you may put my name down for my 1st personal appearance at a fly in IF
those beauros make the SP issue effective by then. If not, can you assure me of
an insignicant landing and parking area void of officials, beauros, ramp
checkers, you get the idea. No registration or name signing. It would be about
a 3
hr flight assuming those SW Texas winds show up strong about 10 am daily.
If you accept these conditions I will, God willing, attend your fly in
Corky in Shreveport
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Vydra <jvydra(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I just posted a Model A maintenance Manual on ebay...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wing back how far, Carl ? |
Mike,,,, I set the wing back 3 1/2 inches and the motor mount is out 2
inches. The mains are split V piet style.
Looks like Bob Seibert is sitting on the edge with me getting close to
gettin some air under the wing.
With a lot of the guys reporting great progress, we could have a heck of a
showing at Brodhead in 2004.
On a sad note,,, The guy that's been flying Bill Poiry's piet, came in a
little too slow on a NW Ohio windy day.
Wind gust got him and he dropped her pretty hard. No serious human injuries
but the piet got bent quite a bit.
Remember boys,,, give that gas a crack more when the ole winds start to
blow. Bill says he will have it back
together hopefully by fall.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing back how far, Carl ?
>
> Carl-- out of curiosity, how far back aft of vertical did you shift your
> wing on your long fuse, non-elect. Corvair Pietenpol Air Camper
> ? Again---way to go. This must be getting exciting !!
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Low & Slow Fly-in - fishes and Englishmen... |
In a message dated 7/16/2003 5:50:09 PM Central Standard Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
> mayhaw jelly sandwich
Now I just might show up if Corky can bring a couple of those peanut butter
and mayhaw sammiches.
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 'Pieters in Middle TN |
'Pieters,
First of all, I need to say thanks to Mike Cuy for a great video! If I could figure
out who I loaned it to last, I'd watch it 'til the tape broke!
I also want to thank Gene Rambo for his graciousness in letting me and a buddy
poke around his hangar a few months ago. Judging by the work on his Travel-Air,
his 'Piet is sure to be top-notch!
Finally, I'll be moving to Murfreesboro, TN in August, and would like to know if
anyone in the area has a Piet either flying or under construction. I overheard
a fella at the local EAA meeting talk about building one when I was visiting
last month, but didn't check any specifics.
With any luck, I'll be a proud 'Piet builder one day, too! ;)
-Wayne Bressler
N925WB1(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
Jim, is this maintenance manual for the car or engine? What is the exact
title and how much are you asking for it? Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <jack(at)personnelincorporated.com> |
| Subject: | Brodhead questions |
Hello,
Planning to attend Brodhead for the first time this year. Hope to be there
Saturday. Is there a website or anywhere else I can learn more about it?
Thanks!
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seibert Bob-r18643 <Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com> |
| Subject: | Low & Slow Fly-in |
I guess I better make sure my test area restrictions include McGregor!
That's 55 nm downwind from Macho Grande if I don't get lost.
I will plan on being there.
Bob Seibert
NX23TX patiently waiting for Mr. DAR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead questions |
A couple good sites:
Check out <http://www.eaa431.org/> for a view of Brodhead.....
Also (one of my favorites): <http://home.att.net/~rdroller/index.htm>
Jim in Plano....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Textor" <jack(at)personnelincorporated.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead questions
>
> Hello,
> Planning to attend Brodhead for the first time this year. Hope to be
there
> Saturday. Is there a website or anywhere else I can learn more about it?
> Thanks!
> Jack
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Botsford" <botsford7(at)hot.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low & Slow Fly-in |
Bob,
Looking forward to seeing you here!!
jon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seibert Bob-r18643" <Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Low & Slow Fly-in
I guess I better make sure my test area restrictions include McGregor!
That's 55 nm downwind from Macho Grande if I don't get lost.
I will plan on being there.
Bob Seibert
NX23TX patiently waiting for Mr. DAR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 'Pieters in Middle TN |
Hi Wayne....I'm in Huntsville, AL, not far from Murphriesboro, TN. My Piete
is ready for cover (some of it anyway). I really need to follow Bernie's advice
and put it all together before I cover any of it. It's A-powered and conforms
very closely to the Hoopman plans sold by Don P. I'm not aware of any other
Piets in the area. If you find out about any, would you let me know?
Thanks...Carl Vought
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel Bailey" <dbceltic(at)micoks.net> |
Folks:
I will be driving up to Brodhead, and just thought I'd ask if there will be some
Corvair powered folks planning to be there, see if I can wrangle a ride. I am
just started on my Piet, and still not completely decided on engine, though
leaning in favor of the Corvair.
Dan Bailey
Paola, KS
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary M. Colwill" <g.colwill3(at)verizon.net> |
I know this subject is probably dead (what's that smell...), but I
couldn't help weighing in on the subject, since I don't know anything
worthwhile yet about Pietenpols. The confusion lies in context. You're
referring to fish as a menu item, not an individual - it's like saying,
"We're serving pecan pie for desert, and when the pie IS gone, IT'S
gone." You may have 20 individual pies, but you wouldn't refer to each
pie, you would refer to the menu item.
On the other hand, "When the pies ARE gone, THEY'RE gone" would also be
correct...
So everyone are right...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Jon,
What will happen if you don't eat all your fish?
Corky with his sanwishes
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Botsford" <botsford7(at)hot.rr.com> |
I guess it will be fishwiches for the next week!!!!!!!!
jon
wishing we were going to have hamburgers
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fish
Jon,
What will happen if you don't eat all your fish?
Corky with his sanwishes
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
The "fisherman" will come back and haunt you all.
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Piet Projects in the Seattle area? |
I'll be in Seattle on business around the end of August and have a Sunday
free.....anyone know of any (Pietenpol) Air Campers in the area?
I have Doc's dirctory and will do the cross reference process (having ALL
the info (not just the N#) listed by state would REALLY be nice) when I have
some time....
In the meantime, if anyone knows of a willing owner that might allow some
pictures and a chat (anywhere in the Seattle area, I'll have a car)....let
me know.
Thanks,
Jim in Plano
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
Not to discourage all this fish chit chat but is anyone working on their Piet
anymore? Or is it to hot. Out here it's going to be 106 and the
humidity will be high, about 40%, yes that's high for us this time of year. I
was out in the garage last night and the thermometer said it was 90 degrees in
the garage at ten o'clock at night.
A few weeks ago, before my computer died and my work started blocking access
to Juno's web page (but as we Piet builders are so adept at finding solutions
to
problems, I found a new way access this list from work so shhh don't talk to
loud), I asked the question about Nicopress tools. My search turned up a
Nicopress tool sold at Orchard Supply and Hardware (OSH) for $70 dollars. It
works for cables 1/16", 3/32", 1/8" in diameter. I don't believe it works on
stainless steel nicopress sleeves. It is made in Japan (I think) for Feeney
Wire Rope located here in California and sold by OSH. The Locolock hand swagger
(also around 70 bucks) in Aircraft Spruce catalog does no go up to 1/8" so it
will not work as the plans call for 1/8" cables to be used (I believe the plans
call for 3/32 and 1/8th inch cables).
If anyone has purchased one of these and want's to talks me out of it my ears
are open. If not I think I will buy one and see how it works.
I also read that you are supposed to pull test all you cables assemblies prior
to use. How do I do this?
Chris
Sacramento, CA
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Tool |
I also read that you are supposed to pull test all you cables
assemblies prior
to use. How do I do this?
Chris
Sacramento, CA
Chris,
Per AC43.13 cables assemblies are to tested to 60% of the rated
strength of the cable.
Dale Johnson built a cable testing rig out of a large piece of channel
iron, some uni-strut and a hydraulic jack.
The jack was drilled and tapped to install a pressure gage. The gage
face was marked to read in pounds of force instead of psi.
The cables were marked where they entered the nicopress sleeves or
swaged fittings prior to pull testing. This gave a handy visual check to
see if the cables were slipping through the sleeves.
A 1/8 inch cable stressed to 60% of its breaking strength is incredibly
tight.
Not a single fitting slipped or had to be redone. It was a great
confidence booster in the construction process.
Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis (Reminding everyone to wear name tags at
Brodhead)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Tool |
Chris,,, I got one from Tractor Supply Co for about 60 bucks. Not sure if it
is the same brand but
sure sounds the same. Mine works on 1/16, 3/32 and 1/8. It will squish
stainless just as good as
brass.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool
>
> Not to discourage all this fish chit chat but is anyone working on their
Piet
> anymore? Or is it to hot. Out here it's going to be 106 and the
> humidity will be high, about 40%, yes that's high for us this time of
year. I
> was out in the garage last night and the thermometer said it was 90
degrees in
> the garage at ten o'clock at night.
>
> A few weeks ago, before my computer died and my work started blocking
access
> to Juno's web page (but as we Piet builders are so adept at finding
solutions
> to
> problems, I found a new way access this list from work so shhh don't talk
to
> loud), I asked the question about Nicopress tools. My search turned up a
> Nicopress tool sold at Orchard Supply and Hardware (OSH) for $70 dollars.
It
> works for cables 1/16", 3/32", 1/8" in diameter. I don't believe it works
on
> stainless steel nicopress sleeves. It is made in Japan (I think) for
Feeney
> Wire Rope located here in California and sold by OSH. The Locolock hand
swagger
> (also around 70 bucks) in Aircraft Spruce catalog does no go up to 1/8" so
it
> will not work as the plans call for 1/8" cables to be used (I believe the
plans
> call for 3/32 and 1/8th inch cables).
>
> If anyone has purchased one of these and want's to talks me out of it my
ears
> are open. If not I think I will buy one and see how it works.
>
> I also read that you are supposed to pull test all you cables assemblies
prior
> to use. How do I do this?
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Tool |
you can make a testing fixture for your cables from some 4130 steel tubing.
Using some simple math you can make a fulcrum/lever that has one end attached to
the cable and the other you will hang weight from.
if you make the small arm 6" and the long side 2.5' you have a 5:1 lever. put
100lb on the long side you're applying 500lb on the cable. You only need to test
the cable to 60% as I recall.
This jig works good on smaller cables like cabane cables since you don't have to
have the jig elevated very high. I'm not sure how you would do longer control
cables or drag anti drag strut wires.
Of course if you have a hangar with high ceilings and steel rafters I suppose you
could hang the cables from a rafter and then attach weight to them somehow.
----- Original Message -----
From: catdesign(at)intergate.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 11:40 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool
Not to discourage all this fish chit chat but is anyone working on their Piet
anymore? Or is it to hot. Out here it's going to be 106 and the
humidity will be high, about 40%, yes that's high for us this time of year.
I
was out in the garage last night and the thermometer said it was 90 degrees in
the garage at ten o'clock at night.
A few weeks ago, before my computer died and my work started blocking access
to Juno's web page (but as we Piet builders are so adept at finding solutions
to
problems, I found a new way access this list from work so shhh don't talk to
loud), I asked the question about Nicopress tools. My search turned up a
Nicopress tool sold at Orchard Supply and Hardware (OSH) for $70 dollars. It
works for cables 1/16", 3/32", 1/8" in diameter. I don't believe it works on
stainless steel nicopress sleeves. It is made in Japan (I think) for Feeney
Wire Rope located here in California and sold by OSH. The Locolock hand swagger
(also around 70 bucks) in Aircraft Spruce catalog does no go up to 1/8" so it
will not work as the plans call for 1/8" cables to be used (I believe the plans
call for 3/32 and 1/8th inch cables).
If anyone has purchased one of these and want's to talks me out of it my ears
are open. If not I think I will buy one and see how it works.
I also read that you are supposed to pull test all you cables assemblies prior
to use. How do I do this?
Chris
Sacramento, CA
-------------------------------------------------
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Tool |
I just got my tool on ebay last week for $90. It does 1/16 to 5/32. It is an
authentic Niocpress tool. It works great!
Never underestimate the power of ebay :-)
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Loar
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool
Chris,,, I got one from Tractor Supply Co for about 60 bucks. Not sure if it
is the same brand but
sure sounds the same. Mine works on 1/16, 3/32 and 1/8. It will squish
stainless just as good as
brass.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
To:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool
>
> Not to discourage all this fish chit chat but is anyone working on their
Piet
> anymore? Or is it to hot. Out here it's going to be 106 and the
> humidity will be high, about 40%, yes that's high for us this time of
year. I
> was out in the garage last night and the thermometer said it was 90
degrees in
> the garage at ten o'clock at night.
>
> A few weeks ago, before my computer died and my work started blocking
access
> to Juno's web page (but as we Piet builders are so adept at finding
solutions
> to
> problems, I found a new way access this list from work so shhh don't talk
to
> loud), I asked the question about Nicopress tools. My search turned up a
> Nicopress tool sold at Orchard Supply and Hardware (OSH) for $70 dollars.
It
> works for cables 1/16", 3/32", 1/8" in diameter. I don't believe it works
on
> stainless steel nicopress sleeves. It is made in Japan (I think) for
Feeney
> Wire Rope located here in California and sold by OSH. The Locolock hand
swagger
> (also around 70 bucks) in Aircraft Spruce catalog does no go up to 1/8" so
it
> will not work as the plans call for 1/8" cables to be used (I believe the
plans
> call for 3/32 and 1/8th inch cables).
>
> If anyone has purchased one of these and want's to talks me out of it my
ears
> are open. If not I think I will buy one and see how it works.
>
> I also read that you are supposed to pull test all you cables assemblies
prior
> to use. How do I do this?
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
=
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Tool |
Greg also meant to add that the testing rig's jack was calibrated using some
scales in an arbor press.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool
>
>
> I also read that you are supposed to pull test all you cables
> assemblies prior
> to use. How do I do this?
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
> Chris,
>
> Per AC43.13 cables assemblies are to tested to 60% of the rated
> strength of the cable.
>
> Dale Johnson built a cable testing rig out of a large piece of channel
> iron, some uni-strut and a hydraulic jack.
> The jack was drilled and tapped to install a pressure gage. The gage
> face was marked to read in pounds of force instead of psi.
> The cables were marked where they entered the nicopress sleeves or
> swaged fittings prior to pull testing. This gave a handy visual check to
> see if the cables were slipping through the sleeves.
> A 1/8 inch cable stressed to 60% of its breaking strength is incredibly
> tight.
> Not a single fitting slipped or had to be redone. It was a great
> confidence booster in the construction process.
>
> Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis (Reminding everyone to wear name tags at
> Brodhead)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Tool |
I bought a really nice one on Ebay for $50 plus shipping. Works great. Does three
sizes. I will get the name off it and sizes when I get home today. It is a
name brand, I just can't think of it now.
-Gary
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:40:02 -0500
>
>Not to discourage all this fish chit chat but is anyone working on their Piet
>anymore? Or is it to hot. Out here it's going to be 106 and the
>humidity will be high, about 40%, yes that's high for us this time of year. I
>was out in the garage last night and the thermometer said it was 90 degrees in
>the garage at ten o'clock at night.
>
>A few weeks ago, before my computer died and my work started blocking access
>to Juno's web page (but as we Piet builders are so adept at finding solutions
>to
>problems, I found a new way access this list from work so shhh don't talk to
>loud), I asked the question about Nicopress tools. My search turned up a
>Nicopress tool sold at Orchard Supply and Hardware (OSH) for $70 dollars. It
>works for cables 1/16", 3/32", 1/8" in diameter. I don't believe it works on
>stainless steel nicopress sleeves. It is made in Japan (I think) for Feeney
>Wire Rope located here in California and sold by OSH. The Locolock hand swagger
>(also around 70 bucks) in Aircraft Spruce catalog does no go up to 1/8" so it
>will not work as the plans call for 1/8" cables to be used (I believe the plans
>call for 3/32 and 1/8th inch cables).
>
>If anyone has purchased one of these and want's to talks me out of it my ears
>are open. If not I think I will buy one and see how it works.
>
>I also read that you are supposed to pull test all you cables assemblies prior
>to use. How do I do this?
>
>Chris
>Sacramento, CA
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Tool |
Quoting Carl Loar :
>
> Chris,,, I got one from Tractor Supply Co for about 60 bucks. Not sure if it
> is the same brand but
> sure sounds the same. Mine works on 1/16, 3/32 and 1/8. It will squish
> stainless just as good as
> brass.
> Carl
Even though Sacramento is surrounded by farming we do not have a Tractor Supply
in California. I was hopping this is the same one too you have. The specs seem
to match.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Tool |
All nico press sleeves are copper. They may be plated. Check AC 43-13.1B
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool
>
> Not to discourage all this fish chit chat but is anyone working on their
Piet
> anymore? Or is it to hot. Out here it's going to be 106 and the
> humidity will be high, about 40%, yes that's high for us this time of
year. I
> was out in the garage last night and the thermometer said it was 90
degrees in
> the garage at ten o'clock at night.
>
> A few weeks ago, before my computer died and my work started blocking
access
> to Juno's web page (but as we Piet builders are so adept at finding
solutions
> to
> problems, I found a new way access this list from work so shhh don't talk
to
> loud), I asked the question about Nicopress tools. My search turned up a
> Nicopress tool sold at Orchard Supply and Hardware (OSH) for $70 dollars.
It
> works for cables 1/16", 3/32", 1/8" in diameter. I don't believe it works
on
> stainless steel nicopress sleeves. It is made in Japan (I think) for
Feeney
> Wire Rope located here in California and sold by OSH. The Locolock hand
swagger
> (also around 70 bucks) in Aircraft Spruce catalog does no go up to 1/8" so
it
> will not work as the plans call for 1/8" cables to be used (I believe the
plans
> call for 3/32 and 1/8th inch cables).
>
> If anyone has purchased one of these and want's to talks me out of it my
ears
> are open. If not I think I will buy one and see how it works.
>
> I also read that you are supposed to pull test all you cables assemblies
prior
> to use. How do I do this?
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Tool |
No, The sleeves supplied with my Fisher 404 were aluminum, the same, I
guess, that are at Home Depot.
Now the sleeves from AS&S were all brass, some plated , some not. Used the
plated ones out of sight, and the brass ones out where the antique
admirerers could see.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool
>
> All nico press sleeves are copper. They may be plated. Check AC 43-13.1B
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>
> Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool
>
>
> >
> > Not to discourage all this fish chit chat but is anyone working on their
> Piet
> > anymore? Or is it to hot. Out here it's going to be 106 and the
> > humidity will be high, about 40%, yes that's high for us this time of
> year. I
> > was out in the garage last night and the thermometer said it was 90
> degrees in
> > the garage at ten o'clock at night.
> >
> > A few weeks ago, before my computer died and my work started blocking
> access
> > to Juno's web page (but as we Piet builders are so adept at finding
> solutions
> > to
> > problems, I found a new way access this list from work so shhh don't
talk
> to
> > loud), I asked the question about Nicopress tools. My search turned up
a
> > Nicopress tool sold at Orchard Supply and Hardware (OSH) for $70
dollars.
> It
> > works for cables 1/16", 3/32", 1/8" in diameter. I don't believe it
works
> on
> > stainless steel nicopress sleeves. It is made in Japan (I think) for
> Feeney
> > Wire Rope located here in California and sold by OSH. The Locolock hand
> swagger
> > (also around 70 bucks) in Aircraft Spruce catalog does no go up to 1/8"
so
> it
> > will not work as the plans call for 1/8" cables to be used (I believe
the
> plans
> > call for 3/32 and 1/8th inch cables).
> >
> > If anyone has purchased one of these and want's to talks me out of it my
> ears
> > are open. If not I think I will buy one and see how it works.
> >
> > I also read that you are supposed to pull test all you cables assemblies
> prior
> > to use. How do I do this?
> >
> > Chris
> > Sacramento, CA
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | pros and cons of my Nicropress tool |
I bought the cheap version of the tool. Like it cause I clamp the tool in the
vice and I can control the cable going into the tool before I crimp, and can get
the sleeve just right with a few turns of the bolt, just to keep the sleeve
there without crimping. then get everything set with the thimble nice and tight
to the tool before crimping.
Seems to me that with the expensive tool , someone has to be on the sqeezing end
What do you do when you are putting ends on a rudder cable and it's way up front
near the floor? I could never have done mine squeezing with two hands.
Bet that everyone that uses the big tool, had to cut at least one end off because
someone wasn't watching, or moved. On the first end , it's only a do-over,
on the second end, you throw the whole cable away.
If I lost my tool tomorrow on the way back from winning the lottery, I'd still
buy the economy tool.
I'll squoze under control over squozing for speed.
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Tool (diferent sleeves) |
This bring a question I want to make. Is there any diference betwen
copper sleves and the plated color ones? I run out of plated ones
but have about 200 coppper ones a friend brough to me from S&F.
Is there any rule about type of sleeve used with galvanized or SS
cable?
Appreciate any help.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Cy Galley wrote:
>
> All nico press sleeves are copper. They may be plated. Check AC
> 43-13.1B
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>
> Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool
>
>
> >
> > Not to discourage all this fish chit chat but is anyone working on
> their
> Piet
> > anymore? Or is it to hot. Out here it's going to be 106 and the
> > humidity will be high, about 40%, yes that's high for us this time
> of
> year. I
> > was out in the garage last night and the thermometer said it was 90
> degrees in
> > the garage at ten o'clock at night.
> >
> > A few weeks ago, before my computer died and my work started
> blocking
> access
> > to Juno's web page (but as we Piet builders are so adept at finding
> solutions
> > to
> > problems, I found a new way access this list from work so shhh
> don't talk
> to
> > loud), I asked the question about Nicopress tools. My search
> turned up a
> > Nicopress tool sold at Orchard Supply and Hardware (OSH) for $70
> dollars.
> It
> > works for cables 1/16", 3/32", 1/8" in diameter. I don't believe it
> works
> on
> > stainless steel nicopress sleeves. It is made in Japan (I think)
> for
> Feeney
> > Wire Rope located here in California and sold by OSH. The Locolock
> hand
> swagger
> > (also around 70 bucks) in Aircraft Spruce catalog does no go up to
> 1/8" so
> it
> > will not work as the plans call for 1/8" cables to be used (I
> believe the
> plans
> > call for 3/32 and 1/8th inch cables).
> >
> > If anyone has purchased one of these and want's to talks me out of
> it my
> ears
> > are open. If not I think I will buy one and see how it works.
> >
> > I also read that you are supposed to pull test all you cables
> assemblies
> prior
> > to use. How do I do this?
> >
> > Chris
> > Sacramento, CA
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Tool |
From AC 43-13
b. Nicopress Process. A patented process using copper sleeves may be used up
to the full rated strength of the cable when the cable is looped around a thimble.
This process may also be used in place of the five-tuck splice on
Page 7-32
Par 7-148
cables up to and including 3/8 inch diameter. The use of sleeves that are fabricated
of materials other than copper will require engineering approval for the
specific application by the FAA.
Your ultralight and experimental can use aluminum but the FAA does not permit it
for certified planes. Why take the chance?
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool
>
> No, The sleeves supplied with my Fisher 404 were aluminum, the same, I
> guess, that are at Home Depot.
> Now the sleeves from AS&S were all brass, some plated , some not. Used the
> plated ones out of sight, and the brass ones out where the antique
> admirerers could see.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool
>
>
> >
> > All nico press sleeves are copper. They may be plated. Check AC 43-13.1B
> >
> > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
> >
> > Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> > cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
> >
> > Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Not to discourage all this fish chit chat but is anyone working on their
> > Piet
> > > anymore? Or is it to hot. Out here it's going to be 106 and the
> > > humidity will be high, about 40%, yes that's high for us this time of
> > year. I
> > > was out in the garage last night and the thermometer said it was 90
> > degrees in
> > > the garage at ten o'clock at night.
> > >
> > > A few weeks ago, before my computer died and my work started blocking
> > access
> > > to Juno's web page (but as we Piet builders are so adept at finding
> > solutions
> > > to
> > > problems, I found a new way access this list from work so shhh don't
> talk
> > to
> > > loud), I asked the question about Nicopress tools. My search turned up
> a
> > > Nicopress tool sold at Orchard Supply and Hardware (OSH) for $70
> dollars.
> > It
> > > works for cables 1/16", 3/32", 1/8" in diameter. I don't believe it
> works
> > on
> > > stainless steel nicopress sleeves. It is made in Japan (I think) for
> > Feeney
> > > Wire Rope located here in California and sold by OSH. The Locolock hand
> > swagger
> > > (also around 70 bucks) in Aircraft Spruce catalog does no go up to 1/8"
> so
> > it
> > > will not work as the plans call for 1/8" cables to be used (I believe
> the
> > plans
> > > call for 3/32 and 1/8th inch cables).
> > >
> > > If anyone has purchased one of these and want's to talks me out of it my
> > ears
> > > are open. If not I think I will buy one and see how it works.
> > >
> > > I also read that you are supposed to pull test all you cables assemblies
> > prior
> > > to use. How do I do this?
> > >
> > > Chris
> > > Sacramento, CA
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Tool (diferent sleeves) |
Again AC 43-13 says that you must use plated sleeves on Stainless cable
because of corrosion due to electrolysis. It isn't very obvious but the info
is at the bottom of a table with a "Splat" (*) as the English would say.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool (diferent sleeves)
>
> This bring a question I want to make. Is there any diference betwen
> copper sleves and the plated color ones? I run out of plated ones
> but have about 200 coppper ones a friend brough to me from S&F.
>
> Is there any rule about type of sleeve used with galvanized or SS
> cable?
>
> Appreciate any help.
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
>
> --- Cy Galley wrote:
> >
> > All nico press sleeves are copper. They may be plated. Check AC
> > 43-13.1B
> >
> > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
> >
> > Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> > cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
> >
> > Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Not to discourage all this fish chit chat but is anyone working on
> > their
> > Piet
> > > anymore? Or is it to hot. Out here it's going to be 106 and the
> > > humidity will be high, about 40%, yes that's high for us this time
> > of
> > year. I
> > > was out in the garage last night and the thermometer said it was 90
> > degrees in
> > > the garage at ten o'clock at night.
> > >
> > > A few weeks ago, before my computer died and my work started
> > blocking
> > access
> > > to Juno's web page (but as we Piet builders are so adept at finding
> > solutions
> > > to
> > > problems, I found a new way access this list from work so shhh
> > don't talk
> > to
> > > loud), I asked the question about Nicopress tools. My search
> > turned up a
> > > Nicopress tool sold at Orchard Supply and Hardware (OSH) for $70
> > dollars.
> > It
> > > works for cables 1/16", 3/32", 1/8" in diameter. I don't believe it
> > works
> > on
> > > stainless steel nicopress sleeves. It is made in Japan (I think)
> > for
> > Feeney
> > > Wire Rope located here in California and sold by OSH. The Locolock
> > hand
> > swagger
> > > (also around 70 bucks) in Aircraft Spruce catalog does no go up to
> > 1/8" so
> > it
> > > will not work as the plans call for 1/8" cables to be used (I
> > believe the
> > plans
> > > call for 3/32 and 1/8th inch cables).
> > >
> > > If anyone has purchased one of these and want's to talks me out of
> > it my
> > ears
> > > are open. If not I think I will buy one and see how it works.
> > >
> > > I also read that you are supposed to pull test all you cables
> > assemblies
> > prior
> > > to use. How do I do this?
> > >
> > > Chris
> > > Sacramento, CA
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
I've been playing with this for some time.
Can't remember if I have sent it out before
so here it is;
http://www.nicon.org/chapter328/PropDesign/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Tool |
| From: | "D.Dale Johnson" <dd5john(at)juno.com> |
Hi Cy
I see you are looking for articles for the Experimenter.
Take a look at www.mn1903flyer.us and see if you can use this.
I have worked the flyer for about 3 years + working on our Pietenpol.
Dale Johnson.
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
"piet discussion"
| Subject: | what a great day of flying in the north east |
This was a great flying day. The winds didn't start till 10:00. Was as smooth
as glass for enough time for me to visit 3 airports and bullcrap.
My final destination was Andover Aeroflex in northern NJ. Wanted to show my plane
to a fellow who is 80ish, who flys the fire fighter planes in the spring,
and always had time to talk about the old times. Guess he started in WWll. Love
to watch him handle that "crop duster" with the 650HP radial, taking off with
full water, going to get a brush fire.
He said he liked my plane, and even gave me some pointers. I love to hear pointers
from the pros.
Ain't life grand!!
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: what a great day of flying in the north east |
Walt,
I had a great flying evening, in Kansas. I, too, have been getting some
cross country pointers from the ol' experts, at Benton. We had a high overcast,
and in the high 90's, but light winds. Flew formation with Doug and his
T-craft. Determined that my ASI is reading too low. Logged 1.3 hours. Earlier
in
the day, I got my brakes opporational, and they work well. Also mounted a
bracket for the handheld Com, and an antenna for the GPS. Drained the oil, when
I got back. Everything works, no squawks !! I'm ready for the 'Big
Adventure'!! I plan to Airport Hop, all the way. The longer it takes, the better.
Yes, Life is Grand !!! See y'all at Brodhead !!
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
Fellow Pieters,
In spite of making plans for months to be at Brodhead, events have
conspired to make it impossible for me to be there unless someone who is
flying up Friday & returning on Sunday can transit NE Ohio & let me hitch
up. I'm not begging, just letting you all know my situation.
Life can be a bitch sometimes. I was really hoping to meet many of you &
also catch up again with William Wynne.
Maybe next year, in the meantime, damn, damn, damn.
Regards,
Kip Gardner
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> |
Walt,
We got in a bunch of Piet flying here in central Pa this weekend too. I
was out for a couple of hours last night flying formation with a friend
that has a Challenger. The Para Plane guys were out too. I can just
about stay with them with the Piet.
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> |
Walt,
We got in a bunch of Piet flying here in central Pa this weekend too. I
was out for a couple of hours last night flying formation with a friend
that has a Challenger. The Para Plane guys were out too. I can just
about stay with them with the Piet.
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Piet-less in Seattle |
| From: | "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com> |
In the meantime, if anyone knows of a willing owner that might allow some pictures
and a chat (anywhere in the Seattle area, I'll have a car)....let me know.
Thanks,
Jim in Plano
------------------------------------
Dear Piet-less in Seattle (Jim),
I live in Gig Harbor, Washington. It is located about 50 miles South of Seattle
across the Narrows bridge in Tacoma. Takes about an hour to drive (traffic
permitting).
I am involved with the construction of two Pietenpols where my partner is building
the wings and tails and I am building the fuselages with Model-A engines.
The fuselages are tubular 4130 instead of wood and both ships have the straight
axle landing gear.
Currently I am busier finishing up a Boredom Fighter so the Piet fuselages are
not in the best position for viewing but you would be welcome to look if you're
near by. My partner lives in Vancouver, WA, which is about three hours South
of Tacoma. That's a bit of a trip.
The only complication I can see is that August is my busiest month for flying and
I may be camping out of town. On the other hand, Sundays I usually like to
be home to prepare for the upcoming workweek.
If you'd care to see a frame with some interior in it, and Model-A engines on stands,
you'd be welcome. Sorry I don't have more to show.
Bill Sayre
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Stevee needs A-65 help |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Changing spark plugs and ignition harness to Shielded.
All the plugs were tight, but two of the bottom plugs were very, very
tight. I finally removed them, but when they came out they looked too
big. Then I realized that I had torqued out a steel insert from the
jug, shearing a locking pin in the process. I separated the insert and
plug at home using a vise and an impact wrench. My question is NOW
WHAT!? I hope I'm not in the unenviable position of having to rebuild
two cylinders.... Does anyone know what material the lock pin is for
the insert? Any suggestions appreciated.
Steve E.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Whew. I'm glad somebody else asked the question about the inexpensive
nicopress squeezer because I've been afraid of getting flamed about using
it. Of course, both the "real" tool and the "cheap" tool are offered in the
builder supply catalogs, but nobody seems to use the cheap one. The one I
have is borrowed from a KR builder who used it successfully in the rebuild
of his KR. I have a bunch of 3/32 cable and copper sleeves to crimp on my
M-19 "Flying Squirrel" and was planning to use the cheap tool. I used it
with some hardware-store cable and aluminum crimps (to brace a sagging door)
and they looked fine, but not at all like the 3-press variety. With the
cheap tool, you get one fat crimp and that's it.
I agree with Walt that it's far easier to control your crimp using the cheap
squeezer. You have complete control over the tension, the placement, and
everything else before you squeeze it. I was just worried that some Tech
Counselor or wise-a** would tell me I was going to crash and die for using
single-crimp nicos instead of "real" 3-crimp ones.
However... consider a strength comparison between 1/8" aircraft cable with
single-crimp nicos vs. building it to plans, with 12 ga. hard wire braces
with wire-wound ferrules... no contest.
Oh, and for you last few patient folks still wondering where your brass data
plates are, I'm sending out Bruce Johnston's, John Myers', and Cecil
Stokesberry's. And although I can't seem to find a record of getting
payment, I'm going ahead and sending plates out to Kip Gardner, John
Ficklen, and Doyle Combs because I know my record keeping ain't great
anyway. And wishing I were going to Brodhead so I could maybe sell a few
more of these data plates or (better yet) trade 'em for free rides. Next
year for sure!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
Pieters,
I was looking foward to meeting with all of you at Brodhead this year, but will
be unable to do so because of recent events.
Late last month I flew "Mountain Piet" to Longmont CO for the Rocky Mt. Flyin and
upon arrival, was sequenced too close to another plane on final. I had flown
over the mountains at a little over 14,000 feet and had the manual waste gate
controller for the turbo on the Subaru Engine almost closed. When I added
power for a go around, I failed to open the turbo wastegate and pegged the guage
which goes up to 50 inches. Next thing that I knew, I had coolant blowing all
over and the temp gauges all pegged too. (For about 5 seconds I probably had
at least 500 hp maybe?)
I pulled throttle and swung around and put Piet down on a ultralite strip. Upon
examination, it appeared that the only damage to the engine was that the crossover
pipe from the right to left cylinder bank had blown. We walked the plane
over to the display area and left it. (even with coolant all over the bird,
it still won an award.)
On Monday I rented a car and drove into Denver to find another crossover pipe,
Came back and installed it. Ran engine up and decided to fly it home. Took
off and made it to about 400 feet and the damn thing really blew up! Smoke, oil
and coolant all over the place! I put it down in a field between a fence and
ditch, stopped about 20 ft before the ditch. We hauled the plane back to the
airport.
This time there was a big hole blown in the crankcase. So I went to Denver again
and purchased a remanufactured engine. (cost about $1900 including tax, just
about the price of 1 and 1/2 cylinders on a Lycoming engine!) Spent the next
week installing it and flew home without any problem.
This past Sunday evening, I slipped going down the stairs to our lower level and
sprained my ankle and busted a toe. I am now convinced that the Gods are not
in favor of my flying back to Brodhead. I give up!
See you next year, maybe. Have a great reunion!
Cordially,
John Dilatush, NX114D
Salida, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Won't make it! |
John D.,
Sorry to here about the misfortunes but now you have time to build your
sandblaster.
Chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Won't make it!
>
> Pieters,
>
> I was looking foward to meeting with all of you at Brodhead this year, but
will be unable to do so because of recent events.
>
> Late last month I flew "Mountain Piet" to Longmont CO for the Rocky Mt.
Flyin and upon arrival, was sequenced too close to another plane on final.
I had flown over the mountains at a little over 14,000 feet and had the
manual waste gate controller for the turbo on the Subaru Engine almost
closed. When I added power for a go around, I failed to open the turbo
wastegate and pegged the guage which goes up to 50 inches. Next thing that I
knew, I had coolant blowing all over and the temp gauges all pegged too.
(For about 5 seconds I probably had at least 500 hp maybe?)
>
> I pulled throttle and swung around and put Piet down on a ultralite strip.
Upon examination, it appeared that the only damage to the engine was that
the crossover pipe from the right to left cylinder bank had blown. We
walked the plane over to the display area and left it. (even with coolant
all over the bird, it still won an award.)
>
> On Monday I rented a car and drove into Denver to find another crossover
pipe, Came back and installed it. Ran engine up and decided to fly it
home. Took off and made it to about 400 feet and the damn thing really blew
up! Smoke, oil and coolant all over the place! I put it down in a field
between a fence and ditch, stopped about 20 ft before the ditch. We hauled
the plane back to the airport.
>
> This time there was a big hole blown in the crankcase. So I went to
Denver again and purchased a remanufactured engine. (cost about $1900
including tax, just about the price of 1 and 1/2 cylinders on a Lycoming
engine!) Spent the next week installing it and flew home without any
problem.
>
> This past Sunday evening, I slipped going down the stairs to our lower
level and sprained my ankle and busted a toe. I am now convinced that the
Gods are not in favor of my flying back to Brodhead. I give up!
>
> See you next year, maybe. Have a great reunion!
>
> Cordially,
>
> John Dilatush, NX114D
> Salida, Colorado
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress (tm) |
Ah, I forgot to get the name of the one I bought. Was $25 on Ebay. Was a very nice
one, I will photo it and send the picture. I still have the email to the listing
on Ebay, but the listing is no longer there, expired, and I forget who
I bought it from, I will look at PayPal and try to track them down.
The one I have does three sizes, 3/32, 1/8 and something bigger (I forget). It
looks like a huge crimper or bolt cutter.
If you can find one, get it, works great, is adjustable, etc. I just clamp one
arm in the vice, get everything all held together, stick it in and press it. Wallah,
you have a strong cable connection.
-Gary
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:45:31 -0500
>
>Whew. I'm glad somebody else asked the question about the inexpensive
>nicopress squeezer because I've been afraid of getting flamed about using
>it. Of course, both the "real" tool and the "cheap" tool are offered in the
>builder supply catalogs, but nobody seems to use the cheap one. The one I
>have is borrowed from a KR builder who used it successfully in the rebuild
>of his KR. I have a bunch of 3/32 cable and copper sleeves to crimp on my
>M-19 "Flying Squirrel" and was planning to use the cheap tool. I used it
>with some hardware-store cable and aluminum crimps (to brace a sagging door)
>and they looked fine, but not at all like the 3-press variety. With the
>cheap tool, you get one fat crimp and that's it.
>
>I agree with Walt that it's far easier to control your crimp using the cheap
>squeezer. You have complete control over the tension, the placement, and
>everything else before you squeeze it. I was just worried that some Tech
>Counselor or wise-a** would tell me I was going to crash and die for using
>single-crimp nicos instead of "real" 3-crimp ones.
>
>However... consider a strength comparison between 1/8" aircraft cable with
>single-crimp nicos vs. building it to plans, with 12 ga. hard wire braces
>with wire-wound ferrules... no contest.
>
>Oh, and for you last few patient folks still wondering where your brass data
>plates are, I'm sending out Bruce Johnston's, John Myers', and Cecil
>Stokesberry's. And although I can't seem to find a record of getting
>payment, I'm going ahead and sending plates out to Kip Gardner, John
>Ficklen, and Doyle Combs because I know my record keeping ain't great
>anyway. And wishing I were going to Brodhead so I could maybe sell a few
>more of these data plates or (better yet) trade 'em for free rides. Next
>year for sure!
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stevee needs A-65 help |
Steve,
My AP had replaced a couple for me. They look like brass with a brass pin.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
>
> Changing spark plugs and ignition harness to Shielded.
>
> All the plugs were tight, but two of the bottom plugs were very, very
> tight. I finally removed them, but when they came out they looked too
> big. Then I realized that I had torqued out a steel insert from the
> jug, shearing a locking pin in the process. I separated the insert and
> plug at home using a vise and an impact wrench. My question is NOW
> WHAT!? I hope I'm not in the unenviable position of having to rebuild
> two cylinders.... Does anyone know what material the lock pin is for
> the insert? Any suggestions appreciated.
>
> Steve E.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress (tm) |
Oscar,
Even though I use the economy crimper, I still do the proper three crimps.
My final looks exactly like everyone elses when done. But again, to do the
second and third, with a slight turn of the bolt you can look really close
at the position of the jaws so you start at the right place and get pretty
even looking spacing.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress (tm)
>
> I agree with Walt that it's far easier to control your crimp using the
cheap
> squeezer. You have complete control over the tension, the placement, and
> everything else before you squeeze it. I was just worried that some Tech
> Counselor or wise-a** would tell me I was going to crash and die for using
> single-crimp nicos instead of "real" 3-crimp ones.
>
>> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Authentic lettering style |
Gene Rambo, or others who have been involved with authentic restorations
Is their a correct style of lettering for airplanes of the Pietenpol
vintage?
I have the proper dimensions of the lettering to be placed on the wing,
30" high X 20" wide,
5" stroke width and 10" between letters. This was found in the
"Aeronautic Safety Code" from around 1930. It does state that "plain
block lettering" be used but that isn't descriptive enough.
The Piet that Dale Johnson and I are building will have the
registration number NX18235.
I'm OK with figures that don't have curves like the "N", "X" and "1"
but I need to know the proper dimensions and radii of the "8", "2", "3"
and "5".
Any suggestions?
Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stefan Vorkoetter <stefan(at)capable.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Authentic lettering style |
Greg Cardinal wrote:
>
> Gene Rambo, or others who have been involved with authentic restorations
> -
>
> Is their a correct style of lettering for airplanes of the Pietenpol
> vintage?
Take a look at http://members.aol.com/p5219/fonts.htm and
http://www.tlai.com/med_des/modeling.html
Stefan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Cours <piet-j(at)moriarti.org> |
| Subject: | introduction and -- where's the cargo go? |
Hi, everyone -
I just got my plans and builder's guide a week ago and have been looking
through them, trying to figure out if an Air Camper is the right plane
for a low time tri-gear pilot who's living in the Bay Area. (Yep, it'd
be a Piet with Mode C...) Since I've never built a plane before, and I'm
not too familiar with blueprints, it's been a really pleasant surprise
how much sense the drawings make after I've had a bit of time to go over
them.
I don't know enough yet to be able to ask an intelligent question, but I
do have a not-so-intelligent one: where do you put the cargo? In other
words, when people take their Air Campers airplane camping, where do
they put the tent and sleeping bag? Has anyone looked at building a
small cargo cubby into the space behind the pilot's seat? (Looks like
you'd have to watch weight and balance, but it seems like a hinged
turtledeck section might let you put small, lightweight things back there.)
thanks in advance,
Jeff C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: introduction and -- where's the cargo go? |
I think it was Mike Cuy who put a luggage compartment in the wing center.
Since he had a big fuel tank up front. If I had it to do over, I'd do like
him. Now I have 24 gallons total, kind of unrealistic with a A-65.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Cours" <piet-j(at)moriarti.org>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: introduction and -- where's the cargo go?
>
> Hi, everyone -
>
> I just got my plans and builder's guide a week ago and have been looking
> through them, trying to figure out if an Air Camper is the right plane
> for a low time tri-gear pilot who's living in the Bay Area. (Yep, it'd
> be a Piet with Mode C...) Since I've never built a plane before, and I'm
> not too familiar with blueprints, it's been a really pleasant surprise
> how much sense the drawings make after I've had a bit of time to go over
> them.
>
> I don't know enough yet to be able to ask an intelligent question, but I
> do have a not-so-intelligent one: where do you put the cargo? In other
> words, when people take their Air Campers airplane camping, where do
> they put the tent and sleeping bag? Has anyone looked at building a
> small cargo cubby into the space behind the pilot's seat? (Looks like
> you'd have to watch weight and balance, but it seems like a hinged
> turtledeck section might let you put small, lightweight things back
there.)
>
> thanks in advance,
> Jeff C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stevee needs A-65 help |
Get with a good A&P that has put in inserts (most all of the older guys will
have done it). Got to make sure the hole is clean and clear of debris.
It's not a huge job, but you want to make sure there isn't anything still in
the cylinder to cause damage and that the cylinder is in good shape. See if
he will let you watch (better yet, help) him do the job. It isn't a job you
want to do yourself (at least not the first time). When you put the plugs
back, get a tube of anti-seize and have him show you how to put it on the
threads. It's IMPORTANT you NOT get in near the tip! It will really screw
up the ignition. If you put it on the threads right, you will never need to
replace the inserts again.
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
>
> Changing spark plugs and ignition harness to Shielded.
>
> All the plugs were tight, but two of the bottom plugs were very, very
> tight. I finally removed them, but when they came out they looked too
> big. Then I realized that I had torqued out a steel insert from the
> jug, shearing a locking pin in the process. I separated the insert and
> plug at home using a vise and an impact wrench. My question is NOW
> WHAT!? I hope I'm not in the unenviable position of having to rebuild
> two cylinders.... Does anyone know what material the lock pin is for
> the insert? Any suggestions appreciated.
>
> Steve E.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Stevee needs A-65 help |
The part manual lists them as 1/8" by 3/8"
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
Quarterly newsletters on time
Reasonable document reprints
1-518-731-6800
----- Original Message -----
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
>
> Steve,
> My AP had replaced a couple for me. They look like brass with a brass
pin.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
> To: "Pietenpol List"
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
>
>
> >
> > Changing spark plugs and ignition harness to Shielded.
> >
> > All the plugs were tight, but two of the bottom plugs were very, very
> > tight. I finally removed them, but when they came out they looked too
> > big. Then I realized that I had torqued out a steel insert from the
> > jug, shearing a locking pin in the process. I separated the insert and
> > plug at home using a vise and an impact wrench. My question is NOW
> > WHAT!? I hope I'm not in the unenviable position of having to rebuild
> > two cylinders.... Does anyone know what material the lock pin is for
> > the insert? Any suggestions appreciated.
> >
> > Steve E.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Cours <piet-j(at)moriarti.org> |
| Subject: | Re: introduction and -- where's the cargo go? |
July 01, 2003 - July 21, 2003
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dg