Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dh
July 21, 2003 - August 14, 2003
w b evans wrote:
> I think it was Mike Cuy who put a luggage compartment in the wing center.
> Since he had a big fuel tank up front. If I had it to do over, I'd do like
> him. Now I have 24 gallons total, kind of unrealistic with a A-65.
What an interesting idea! Those are some beautiful pictures of your
plane on the Yahoo Groups site. I was having a little trouble getting a
sense of scale, though. Does the large front tank take over the space
behind the passenger seat's panel? Also, how much fuel does that tank
hold -- somewhere in the 12-14 gallon range?
thanks,
Jeff C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stevee needs A-65 help |
Cy,
Are they in fact brass with a brass pin?
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
>
> The part manual lists them as 1/8" by 3/8"
>
> Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
> Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
> www.bellanca-championclub.com
> Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
> Quarterly newsletters on time
> Reasonable document reprints
> 1-518-731-6800
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
>
>
> >
> > Steve,
> > My AP had replaced a couple for me. They look like brass with a brass
> pin.
> > walt evans
> > NX140DL
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
> > To: "Pietenpol List"
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Changing spark plugs and ignition harness to Shielded.
> > >
> > > All the plugs were tight, but two of the bottom plugs were very, very
> > > tight. I finally removed them, but when they came out they looked too
> > > big. Then I realized that I had torqued out a steel insert from the
> > > jug, shearing a locking pin in the process. I separated the insert
and
> > > plug at home using a vise and an impact wrench. My question is NOW
> > > WHAT!? I hope I'm not in the unenviable position of having to
rebuild
> > > two cylinders.... Does anyone know what material the lock pin is for
> > > the insert? Any suggestions appreciated.
> > >
> > > Steve E.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: introduction and -- where's the cargo go? |
Walt -
In my ideal plane, bladder and fuel times should be about equal.
You must have an amazing bladder.
Jim Ash
-------Original Message-------
From: w b evans <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: introduction and -- where's the cargo go?
>
I think it was Mike Cuy who put a luggage compartment in the wing center.
Since he had a big fuel tank up front. If I had it to do over, I'd do
like
him. Now I have 24 gallons total, kind of unrealistic with a A-65.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Cours" <piet-j(at)moriarti.org>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: introduction and -- where's the cargo go?
>
> Hi, everyone -
>
> I just got my plans and builder's guide a week ago and have been looking
> through them, trying to figure out if an Air Camper is the right plane
> for a low time tri-gear pilot who's living in the Bay Area. (Yep, it'd
> be a Piet with Mode C...) Since I've never built a plane before, and I'm
> not too familiar with blueprints, it's been a really pleasant surprise
> how much sense the drawings make after I've had a bit of time to go over
> them.
>
> I don't know enough yet to be able to ask an intelligent question, but I
> do have a not-so-intelligent one: where do you put the cargo? In other
> words, when people take their Air Campers airplane camping, where do
> they put the tent and sleeping bag? Has anyone looked at building a
> small cargo cubby into the space behind the pilot's seat? (Looks like
> you'd have to watch weight and balance, but it seems like a hinged
> turtledeck section might let you put small, lightweight things back
there.)
>
> thanks in advance,
> Jeff C.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: introduction and -- where's the cargo go? |
Quoting Jeff Cours :
where do you put the cargo?
I have seen cargo space in three places. If you use a wing tank you can use
the space right behind the fire wall. If you have a nose take you can use the
wing center section space. The best way to do it is to have a sack built for
the front cockpit and stuff it in there. Be very carefully that it will not
interfere with the control. Mike Cuy made his front stick removable so he
could stuff more stuff in his.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: introduction and -- where's the cargo go? |
My front tank is where most are, in the very nose where the old Model A used
to go. Just behind where the cowl dips down toward the engine. In this
pic,,,just ahead of the angle tubing that runs from the wing fwd to the
body.
It's 14 gals.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Cours" <piet-j(at)moriarti.org>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: introduction and -- where's the cargo go?
>
> w b evans wrote:
> > I think it was Mike Cuy who put a luggage compartment in the wing
center.
> > Since he had a big fuel tank up front. If I had it to do over, I'd do
like
> > him. Now I have 24 gallons total, kind of unrealistic with a A-65.
>
> What an interesting idea! Those are some beautiful pictures of your
> plane on the Yahoo Groups site. I was having a little trouble getting a
> sense of scale, though. Does the large front tank take over the space
> behind the passenger seat's panel? Also, how much fuel does that tank
> hold -- somewhere in the 12-14 gallon range?
>
> thanks,
> Jeff C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: introduction and -- where's the cargo go? |
Jim,
Naw, just after flying ultralights for a while, always had my eye on the 5
gals. of fuel. When I built the Piet, became a kid in a candy shop with the
tanks.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: introduction and -- where's the cargo go?
>
>
> Walt -
>
> In my ideal plane, bladder and fuel times should be about equal.
>
> You must have an amazing bladder.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
> From: w b evans <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: introduction and -- where's the cargo go?
>
> >
>
> I think it was Mike Cuy who put a luggage compartment in the wing center.
> Since he had a big fuel tank up front. If I had it to do over, I'd do
> like
> him. Now I have 24 gallons total, kind of unrealistic with a A-65.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Cours" <piet-j(at)moriarti.org>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: introduction and -- where's the cargo go?
>
>
> >
> > Hi, everyone -
> >
> > I just got my plans and builder's guide a week ago and have been looking
> > through them, trying to figure out if an Air Camper is the right plane
> > for a low time tri-gear pilot who's living in the Bay Area. (Yep, it'd
> > be a Piet with Mode C...) Since I've never built a plane before, and I'm
> > not too familiar with blueprints, it's been a really pleasant surprise
> > how much sense the drawings make after I've had a bit of time to go over
> > them.
> >
> > I don't know enough yet to be able to ask an intelligent question, but I
> > do have a not-so-intelligent one: where do you put the cargo? In other
> > words, when people take their Air Campers airplane camping, where do
> > they put the tent and sleeping bag? Has anyone looked at building a
> > small cargo cubby into the space behind the pilot's seat? (Looks like
> > you'd have to watch weight and balance, but it seems like a hinged
> > turtledeck section might let you put small, lightweight things back
> there.)
> >
> > thanks in advance,
> > Jeff C.
> >
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Schreiber <schreib(at)netnitco.net> |
| Subject: | Going to Brodhead |
I've been making progress on my Pietenpol, which I started at the end of
April. I have all of my wing ribs done and the horiz. stab and
elevators. I plan on going to Brodhead this weekend and will like to fly
in my Tri Pacer if the weather co-opereates. Since this will be my first
trip I was wondering if anyone shows up Thursday night. If the weather
looks good Thursday, I would probably come in then if anyone will be around.
Rick Schreiber
N5936D
Porter Co. IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Stevee needs A-65 help |
Manual doesn't say. The insert is brass. From what others have said, they
are probably brass as well. The insert for the A-65, C-75 or C-85 is #2002
and are available in oversize of 0.003, 0.006, 0.009 in case your cylinder
threads are loose.
The pin # is 22256 but one could make one out of 1/8" brazing rod. Their
only function is to prevent the insert from rotating and to shear if the
insert is stuck to the plug. It is a good idea to always use anti-seize.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
Quarterly newsletters on time
Reasonable document reprints
1-518-731-6800
----- Original Message -----
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
>
> Cy,
> Are they in fact brass with a brass pin?
> walt evans
> NX140DL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
>
>
> >
> > The part manual lists them as 1/8" by 3/8"
> >
> > Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
> > Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
> > www.bellanca-championclub.com
> > Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
> > Quarterly newsletters on time
> > Reasonable document reprints
> > 1-518-731-6800
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Steve,
> > > My AP had replaced a couple for me. They look like brass with a brass
> > pin.
> > > walt evans
> > > NX140DL
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
> > > To: "Pietenpol List"
> > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Changing spark plugs and ignition harness to Shielded.
> > > >
> > > > All the plugs were tight, but two of the bottom plugs were very,
very
> > > > tight. I finally removed them, but when they came out they looked
too
> > > > big. Then I realized that I had torqued out a steel insert from the
> > > > jug, shearing a locking pin in the process. I separated the insert
> and
> > > > plug at home using a vise and an impact wrench. My question is NOW
> > > > WHAT!? I hope I'm not in the unenviable position of having to
> rebuild
> > > > two cylinders.... Does anyone know what material the lock pin is
for
> > > > the insert? Any suggestions appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Steve E.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engellkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
I bought my General Telephone nicopress squisher from a pawn shop in Topeka, Ks.
If there is any aircraft manufacturing, like Piper or Cessna or what not nearby,
check the pawn shops. Nicopress tools are not red hot in the "gotta have"
tool line unless you are into experimental aviation.
It was priced at $ 19, but I asked what he wanted for the worn out bolt cutter.
He told me that we both knew what it was, but he would come down to $ 17.
Still a deal.
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: introduction and -- where's the cargo go? |
Why the mode C?
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Cours" <piet-j(at)moriarti.org>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: introduction and -- where's the cargo go?
>
> Hi, everyone -
>
> I just got my plans and builder's guide a week ago and have been looking
> through them, trying to figure out if an Air Camper is the right plane
> for a low time tri-gear pilot who's living in the Bay Area. (Yep, it'd
> be a Piet with Mode C...) Since I've never built a plane before, and I'm
> not too familiar with blueprints, it's been a really pleasant surprise
> how much sense the drawings make after I've had a bit of time to go over
> them.
>
> I don't know enough yet to be able to ask an intelligent question, but I
> do have a not-so-intelligent one: where do you put the cargo? In other
> words, when people take their Air Campers airplane camping, where do
> they put the tent and sleeping bag? Has anyone looked at building a
> small cargo cubby into the space behind the pilot's seat? (Looks like
> you'd have to watch weight and balance, but it seems like a hinged
> turtledeck section might let you put small, lightweight things back
there.)
>
> thanks in advance,
> Jeff C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stevee needs A-65 help |
There is special antisieze that is used on spark plug threads that is sold
by champion. Aircraft Spruce has it. This antisieze will not screw up the
electordes on the plugs.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
>
> Get with a good A&P that has put in inserts (most all of the older guys
will
> have done it). Got to make sure the hole is clean and clear of debris.
> It's not a huge job, but you want to make sure there isn't anything still
in
> the cylinder to cause damage and that the cylinder is in good shape. See
if
> he will let you watch (better yet, help) him do the job. It isn't a job
you
> want to do yourself (at least not the first time). When you put the plugs
> back, get a tube of anti-seize and have him show you how to put it on the
> threads. It's IMPORTANT you NOT get in near the tip! It will really
screw
> up the ignition. If you put it on the threads right, you will never need
to
> replace the inserts again.
> Hank J
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
> To: "Pietenpol List"
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
>
>
> >
> > Changing spark plugs and ignition harness to Shielded.
> >
> > All the plugs were tight, but two of the bottom plugs were very, very
> > tight. I finally removed them, but when they came out they looked too
> > big. Then I realized that I had torqued out a steel insert from the
> > jug, shearing a locking pin in the process. I separated the insert and
> > plug at home using a vise and an impact wrench. My question is NOW
> > WHAT!? I hope I'm not in the unenviable position of having to rebuild
> > two cylinders.... Does anyone know what material the lock pin is for
> > the insert? Any suggestions appreciated.
> >
> > Steve E.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stevee needs A-65 help |
I need to check that out. The stuff my IA gave me shorts out the plug if
you get it on there so I am always very careful to get it on the threads
only. If you are careful I know it works, I even use it on my cars plugs
and lug nuts and nothing has ever frozen again. I know that if you get it
on your pants you may as well throw them away and NEVER put them in the
washer. You end up with little silver streaks on all the cloths that are in
with them (the pants you were trying to get clean, never do either). I'll
check ASS and try theirs.
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
>
> There is special antisieze that is used on spark plug threads that is sold
> by champion. Aircraft Spruce has it. This antisieze will not screw up
the
> electordes on the plugs.
>
>
> Chris Bobka
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
>
>
> >
> > Get with a good A&P that has put in inserts (most all of the older guys
> will
> > have done it). Got to make sure the hole is clean and clear of debris.
> > It's not a huge job, but you want to make sure there isn't anything
still
> in
> > the cylinder to cause damage and that the cylinder is in good shape.
See
> if
> > he will let you watch (better yet, help) him do the job. It isn't a job
> you
> > want to do yourself (at least not the first time). When you put the
plugs
> > back, get a tube of anti-seize and have him show you how to put it on
the
> > threads. It's IMPORTANT you NOT get in near the tip! It will really
> screw
> > up the ignition. If you put it on the threads right, you will never
need
> to
> > replace the inserts again.
> > Hank J
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
> > To: "Pietenpol List"
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Changing spark plugs and ignition harness to Shielded.
> > >
> > > All the plugs were tight, but two of the bottom plugs were very, very
> > > tight. I finally removed them, but when they came out they looked too
> > > big. Then I realized that I had torqued out a steel insert from the
> > > jug, shearing a locking pin in the process. I separated the insert
and
> > > plug at home using a vise and an impact wrench. My question is NOW
> > > WHAT!? I hope I'm not in the unenviable position of having to
rebuild
> > > two cylinders.... Does anyone know what material the lock pin is for
> > > the insert? Any suggestions appreciated.
> > >
> > > Steve E.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Going to Brodhead |
Rick,
Thursday night is fine, there is always a few of us
diehards there. Heck, there is probably a couple guys there right
now.
Skip, leaving Atlanta for Brodhead REAL early
Wednesday morning.
-- Pietenpol-List message posted by: Richard Schreiber schreib(at)netnitco.net
I was wondering if anyone shows up Thursday night. If the weather
looks good Thursday, I would probably come in then if anyone will be
around.
Rick Schreiber
N5936D
Porter Co. IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | A-65 magneto questions |
Group:
I need to decide what mags to use. I have borrowed a set of Scintillas but they
aren't firing.
I've pulled this prop till I'm about dead - not even a pop.
Is there a supplier of re-built mags out there or do I have to bite the bullet
and pay 1200 bucks for new ones.
I'm down to just the mags to make this thing run.
Thanks;
Bert (who's wishing he'd spent the last 8 years working on his golf swing instead)
http://bconoly.tripod.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: A-65 magneto questions |
Bert,
What are the model numbers of the bendix mags you have. I might be able to
suggest a remedy
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Won't make it! |
In a message dated 7/21/03 12:52:45 PM Central Daylight Time,
dilatush(at)amigo.net writes:
<< I was looking foward to meeting with all of you at Brodhead this year, but
will be unable to do so because of recent events. >>
John,
sorry to hear you're not going to make it. I was hoping to meet up in Kansas
someplace, and fly there in formation with you !!
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft
Anyone near Dayton might want to check this out
http://www.daytonartinstitute.org/info/general.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel" <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
Below is a link to the tool I bought. It works great. $25 online at Ebay,
brand new. I just can't find it online again. Sorry.
Campbell p/n is 7679037.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=134
-Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
catdesign(at)intergate.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool
Not to discourage all this fish chit chat but is anyone working on their
Piet
anymore? Or is it to hot. Out here it's going to be 106 and the
humidity will be high, about 40%, yes that's high for us this time of year.
I
was out in the garage last night and the thermometer said it was 90 degrees
in
the garage at ten o'clock at night.
A few weeks ago, before my computer died and my work started blocking access
to Juno's web page (but as we Piet builders are so adept at finding
solutions
to
problems, I found a new way access this list from work so shhh don't talk to
loud), I asked the question about Nicopress tools. My search turned up a
Nicopress tool sold at Orchard Supply and Hardware (OSH) for $70 dollars. It
works for cables 1/16", 3/32", 1/8" in diameter. I don't believe it works on
stainless steel nicopress sleeves. It is made in Japan (I think) for Feeney
Wire Rope located here in California and sold by OSH. The Locolock hand
swagger
(also around 70 bucks) in Aircraft Spruce catalog does no go up to 1/8" so
it
will not work as the plans call for 1/8" cables to be used (I believe the
plans
call for 3/32 and 1/8th inch cables).
If anyone has purchased one of these and want's to talks me out of it my
ears
are open. If not I think I will buy one and see how it works.
I also read that you are supposed to pull test all you cables assemblies
prior
to use. How do I do this?
Chris
Sacramento, CA
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Authentic lettering style |
If it helps, I've just added a lettering guide
template from a 1940's maintenance textbook.
I've seen this style on earlier planes from the
30's in books and magazines. Sometimes with
thinner sections.
Go to www.mykitplane.com
then Picture Gallery
then Clif Dawson,
then Pietenpol
then to the very last picture.
By covering up various bits of this template
you get all the letters and numbers.
Enlarge it to any size you need.
Clif
>
> Gene Rambo, or others who have been involved with authentic restorations
> -
>
> Is their a correct style of lettering for airplanes of the Pietenpol
> vintage?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McNeel" <gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> |
I also found this online. It is nearly identical to how I did my cables. The
cold chisel shears right through, no problem or crush.
-Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress (tm)
Whew. I'm glad somebody else asked the question about the inexpensive
nicopress squeezer because I've been afraid of getting flamed about using
it. Of course, both the "real" tool and the "cheap" tool are offered in the
builder supply catalogs, but nobody seems to use the cheap one. The one I
have is borrowed from a KR builder who used it successfully in the rebuild
of his KR. I have a bunch of 3/32 cable and copper sleeves to crimp on my
M-19 "Flying Squirrel" and was planning to use the cheap tool. I used it
with some hardware-store cable and aluminum crimps (to brace a sagging door)
and they looked fine, but not at all like the 3-press variety. With the
cheap tool, you get one fat crimp and that's it.
I agree with Walt that it's far easier to control your crimp using the cheap
squeezer. You have complete control over the tension, the placement, and
everything else before you squeeze it. I was just worried that some Tech
Counselor or wise-a** would tell me I was going to crash and die for using
single-crimp nicos instead of "real" 3-crimp ones.
However... consider a strength comparison between 1/8" aircraft cable with
single-crimp nicos vs. building it to plans, with 12 ga. hard wire braces
with wire-wound ferrules... no contest.
Oh, and for you last few patient folks still wondering where your brass data
plates are, I'm sending out Bruce Johnston's, John Myers', and Cecil
Stokesberry's. And although I can't seem to find a record of getting
payment, I'm going ahead and sending plates out to Kip Gardner, John
Ficklen, and Doyle Combs because I know my record keeping ain't great
anyway. And wishing I were going to Brodhead so I could maybe sell a few
more of these data plates or (better yet) trade 'em for free rides. Next
year for sure!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
This thing looks even better in person.
Thanks Oscar.
Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: A-65 magneto questions |
You should have Slick 4333, 4330,4302, Bendix S4-20, S4-200, Eisemann
LA-4,AM-4 if you have a A-series engine or a C-85 without a starter. They
have to be set up for the proper rotation. If you take a mag off a C-85
that has a starter, It will not work as it is set up for the opposite
rotation. If you have an impulse, it must be wound the proper direction.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A-65 magneto questions
>
> Group:
>
> I need to decide what mags to use. I have borrowed a set of Scintillas
but they aren't firing.
> I've pulled this prop till I'm about dead - not even a pop.
> Is there a supplier of re-built mags out there or do I have to bite the
bullet and pay 1200 bucks for new ones.
>
> I'm down to just the mags to make this thing run.
>
> Thanks;
> Bert (who's wishing he'd spent the last 8 years working on his golf swing
instead)
> http://bconoly.tripod.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <margdick(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A-65 magneto questions |
Bert,
Try Howard Libersky "Magneto Man" in Okeechobee. His number is
863/467-6464. He went over mine and they do good.
DickG. in Ft.Myers
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A-65 magneto questions
>
> Group:
>
> I need to decide what mags to use. I have borrowed a set of Scintillas
but they aren't firing.
> I've pulled this prop till I'm about dead - not even a pop.
> Is there a supplier of re-built mags out there or do I have to bite the
bullet and pay 1200 bucks for new ones.
>
> I'm down to just the mags to make this thing run.
>
> Thanks;
> Bert (who's wishing he'd spent the last 8 years working on his golf swing
instead)
> http://bconoly.tripod.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stefan Vorkoetter <stefan(at)capable.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Authentic lettering style |
clif wrote:
>
> Go to www.mykitplane.com
> then Picture Gallery
> then Clif Dawson,
> then Pietenpol
> then to the very last picture.
Or go directly to
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/PeoplesPlanes/Lettering_guide.jpg
Stefan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratril" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A-65 magneto questions |
Hi Bert
I had the same problem when I tried starting up. Shoulders hurt for days.
When you timed the mags it should have given an indication if there was a
connection for spark. In my case there were two problems, the idler needle
valve on the carb was in way too tight, I installed a primer, and some gum I
missed in cleaning the carb in a small port. Now I am taking it apart again
because of a sticking float valve in the carb.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A-65 magneto questions
>
> Group:
>
> I need to decide what mags to use. I have borrowed a set of Scintillas
but they aren't firing.
> I've pulled this prop till I'm about dead - not even a pop.
> Is there a supplier of re-built mags out there or do I have to bite the
bullet and pay 1200 bucks for new ones.
>
> I'm down to just the mags to make this thing run.
>
> Thanks;
> Bert (who's wishing he'd spent the last 8 years working on his golf swing
instead)
> http://bconoly.tripod.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Cours <piet-j(at)moriarti.org> |
| Subject: | Re: introduction and -- where's the cargo go? |
Christian Bobka wrote:
> Why the mode C?
Unfortunately, the two nearby airports (San Carlos and Palo Alto) are
both within San Francisco International's mode C veil. I'm not too
worried about installing mode C, though one of the things I'm pondering
as I decide whether or not to build a Piet is that I'd be flying it out
of some crowded, tower controlled airports with concrete runways and
fairly complex airspace -- not exactly a Piet's native environment. So,
it'd probably need to pick up some extra equipment, which starts to
detract from its simplicity. On the other hand, I really like the fact
that it has a nice, slow cruise speed, which would give me plenty of
time to figure out which way I need to go next so I don't fly through
the wrong airspace on my way out to the wide open places.
- Jeff C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Like Frank Pavliga and his father did, I opted to put in a fuel tank behind
the firewall (all aluminum, 17 gallons) and left the entire center section
open for baggage. I outlined the center section top in plywood and hinged
a long rectangle of .024" 2024T3 alum. sheet to the front edge w/ two
latches toward the rear. I made the normal behind the seat box a flat
plate of plywood that is glued too the bottom edges of the top longerons
back to the first bay. I can stick my hand back there all the way up to
almost my shoulder. (note you don't want to put anything too heavy back
there tho for CG considerations.) I put things like rags, cleaning spray,
charts, etcs. there.) I made the front stick removeable and had a local
upholstery shop sew me up a black canvas sack that I snap into the front
cockpit along both upper longerons, the front seat, and under the front
instrument panel. The sack has a "U" shape to it so it doesn't interfere
with my feet on the rudder bar. Nor does the sack go very far forward of
the instrument panel so it does not interfere with the front rudder
pedals. Finally, I had the same upholstery shop make up some
cloth-backed brown vinyl cockpit covers that snap around each cockpit
perimeter on top that I keep in place when not flying or parked outside
overnight. When using the front baggage sack on x-country trips, after
everything is loaded (sleeping bag, tent, clothes, camera, pillows and
teddy bear) I snap that front cockpit cover back on over the whole mess and
go flying. The plane really carrys alot of schtuff in this configuration
and when packing up after a weekend somewhere I'm amazed at how much we can
carry.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | center section cutout---and wing baggage |
One thing I forgot to mention is that I opted to put in a wing cutout in
the aft portion of the center section with a hand hold. (you know, the
dreaded cutout that the Jenny and Stearm had that caused them so many
crashes and drag and turbulence over the tail ?? :))) Too funny. Who
cares about drag in a Piet or turbulence ??? Your head causes more
turbulence than any wing cutout will ever cause. Anyway--I had to get that
off my chest before we got into a long discourse on the dreaded wing center
section cutout and the great loss of lift and all. The point being is
that the wing cutout helps those of us with big bellies to stand up in our
rear seat and poke around in the wing center section baggage area. Frank
P. has the same setup and I do but needs a ladder to access his baggage
area since he has neither the wing cutout or the flop. Think about it.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
There's an ad in today's Dallas Morning News:
"Pieten Pol- Corvair nice- serious -$8K. 817-249-2636 or cell 817-692-6742"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
Looks like the one from the October 2002 BPA Newsletter:
1981Corvair Pietenpol, NX16PK, spare engine and propellor, was 12K. The ad
also said no tire kickers please.....(understandable but darn it, I wanna go
see it!!!)
The ad said something about Benbrook, like maybe that's a Fort Worth area
airport?
Anyway, might be a bargain at 8K.....
On to Brodhead!!!!!!!!!!
Jim in Plano.....
----- Original Message -----
From: <TomTravis(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
>
> There's an ad in today's Dallas Morning News:
>
> "Pieten Pol- Corvair nice- serious -$8K. 817-249-2636 or cell
817-692-6742"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seibert Bob-r18643 <Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com> |
| Subject: | Continental Mags |
I forget who had some mag problems but I stumbled across this ebay item
Mags and harness.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &category=26439&item=2424031200
They were going pretty cheap when I saw them.
Regards,
Bob Seibert
NX23TX - Its inspected but the Airspeed is DOA
Flys next week?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Stevee needs A-65 help |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
My inserts are steel and I was guessing the rod was brass. That is what
it looked like. Thanks a ton for the info folks!
Seeking some old hand A&P to do the work,
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cy
Galley
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
Manual doesn't say. The insert is brass. From what others have said,
they
are probably brass as well. The insert for the A-65, C-75 or C-85 is
#2002
and are available in oversize of 0.003, 0.006, 0.009 in case your
cylinder
threads are loose.
The pin # is 22256 but one could make one out of 1/8" brazing rod. Their
only function is to prevent the insert from rotating and to shear if the
insert is stuck to the plug. It is a good idea to always use
anti-seize.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
Quarterly newsletters on time
Reasonable document reprints
1-518-731-6800
----- Original Message -----
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
>
> Cy,
> Are they in fact brass with a brass pin?
> walt evans
> NX140DL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
>
>
> >
> > The part manual lists them as 1/8" by 3/8"
> >
> > Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
> > Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
> > www.bellanca-championclub.com
> > Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
> > Quarterly newsletters on time
> > Reasonable document reprints
> > 1-518-731-6800
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Steve,
> > > My AP had replaced a couple for me. They look like brass with a
brass
> > pin.
> > > walt evans
> > > NX140DL
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
> > > To: "Pietenpol List"
> > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stevee needs A-65 help
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Changing spark plugs and ignition harness to Shielded.
> > > >
> > > > All the plugs were tight, but two of the bottom plugs were very,
very
> > > > tight. I finally removed them, but when they came out they
looked
too
> > > > big. Then I realized that I had torqued out a steel insert from
the
> > > > jug, shearing a locking pin in the process. I separated the
insert
> and
> > > > plug at home using a vise and an impact wrench. My question is
NOW
> > > > WHAT!? I hope I'm not in the unenviable position of having to
> rebuild
> > > > two cylinders.... Does anyone know what material the lock pin
is
for
> > > > the insert? Any suggestions appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Steve E.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brants" <tmbrant(at)usfamily.net> |
I will be among the people who can't make it this year.... Made it last year for
the first time and there were only a few airplanes there. I hear that is not
the norm... I'm bummed I'll be missing out but hopefully people will take
photos and share some good tales.
Have fun!
Tom Brant, Brooklyn Park, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Dayton" <deandayton(at)hotmail.com> |
Their used to be a flying club at Palo Alto (maybe still is) that flew a no
electric Cub with a handheld radio. It was a lot of fun to fly, but it
certainly did limit where you could go in that area.
Dean Dayton
>
>From: Jeff Cours <piet-j(at)moriarti.org>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: introduction and -- where's the cargo go?
>
>
>Christian Bobka wrote:
> > Why the mode C?
>
>Unfortunately, the two nearby airports (San Carlos and Palo Alto) are
>both within San Francisco International's mode C veil. I'm not too
>worried about installing mode C, though one of the things I'm pondering
>as I decide whether or not to build a Piet is that I'd be flying it out
>of some crowded, tower controlled airports with concrete runways and
>fairly complex airspace -- not exactly a Piet's native environment. So,
>it'd probably need to pick up some extra equipment, which starts to
>detract from its simplicity. On the other hand, I really like the fact
>that it has a nice, slow cruise speed, which would give me plenty of
>time to figure out which way I need to go next so I don't fly through
>the wrong airspace on my way out to the wide open places.
>
>- Jeff C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> |
I just did the Matituck exchange for Slicks. New Mags, new wires
eliminates later hassles. I think it was about 650 with the rebate. We
have about 400hrs on the plane and I haven't touched them other than to
check the timing and that hasn't changed.
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> |
I just did the Matituck exchange for Slicks. New Mags, new wires
eliminates later hassles. I think it was about 650 with the rebate. We
have about 400hrs on the plane and I haven't touched them other than to
check the timing and that hasn't changed.
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Vydra <jvydra(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Kollsman Instrument Manual |
I found a (seemingly) complete Kollsman Instrument Manual in my father in law's
legacy. Not sure what to do with it. Sell it to one of you piet guys. Keep
it and offer copies for sale when an individual needs one. Sell it on ebay.
I am sure John Grega would like you guys to benefit in some way. It has...Accelerometer
type 312-01...Air Speed Indicator type 386SD-0109....657K-0126....
Altimeter type 642K-05....177BSD-003...206-033......177B-033.....528-01.....528-03.....127-056......127SD-056.....Tachometer
Generator type 377G-01........397G-01......548G-02......Centrifugal
Tachometer type 170-01.....Magnetic Tachometer
type 257B-01....Electric Tachometer type 377-01.....378SD-01. Maintenance,
calibration and parts lists. Appears to be WWII instruments...but i know
you guys make do.
I am open to offers,
Jim Vydra
Springfield, MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Jeff wrote-
>I'd be flying it out of some crowded, tower controlled airports with
>concrete runways and fairly complex airspace -- not exactly a Piet's
>native environment.
"Roger, experimental eight-niner-niner Juliet Charlie... cleared for taxi to
runway three-two, no delay... Gulfstream II, you're number two to follow the
experimental on three-two but go have a cup of coffee prior to taxi since he
might be a while."
Hey, these people are our servants, the airports are public use and paid for
with our tax dollars, and the FAA's stated mission is to support and improve
our lot in life. We have just as much right to use the airspace and
airports as the heavies do, right? Right! Just watch out for the business
of operating an experimental over densely populated areas and all that [FAR
91.319(c)].
Reality check: I've flown a C-150 and Tomahawk out of airports as big as San
Antonio Int'l. and most of my flying here in south Texas has been in active
and busy MOAs and alert areas. While we do have a right to do so, it ain't
fun sometimes. I've been on final to big airport runways in a little
airplane, "no delay" being an often-mentioned instruction from ATC, with
following traffic being a heavy or with King Airs sitting fuming at the hold
line waiting for me to clear the active. It just takes the joy out of
operations. But if ya gotta, ya gotta-! Obviously, if you're thinking of
building a low and slow fun flyer and not an RV rattle can or something
similar, anything you decide to build will have similar limitations.
And like you said, you can sure violate a lot more restricted airspace in a
bigger hurry at 170 MPH than you can at 70...
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Kollsman Instrument Manual / Brodhead |
I don't know if you guys already do something like this or not, but I
hope to find out this weekend. I'm wondering what sort of "official"
Pietenpol/GN-1 information and/or documentation repository Brodhead has.
Does anybody up there maintain any sort of doc library? Does anybody
want to? I know the EAA is an excellent resource, but it would be nice
to have a dedicated type-specific Pietenpol *shrine* of some sort that
we could all draw from for inspiration and information..
I plan to drive up Saturday morning, camp, learn a bunch, take gobs of
pictures and hopefully scam a few rides...
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> jvydra(at)sbcglobal.net Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:58:00 AM >>>
I found a (seemingly) complete Kollsman Instrument Manual in my father
in law's legacy. Not sure what to do with it. Sell it to one of you
piet guys. Keep it and offer copies for sale when an individual needs
one. Sell it on ebay. I am sure John Grega would like you guys to
benefit in some way. It has...Accelerometer type 312-01...Air Speed
Indicator type 386SD-0109....657K-0126.... Altimeter type
642K-05....177BSD-003...206-033......177B-033.....528-01.....528-03.....127-056......127SD-056.....Tachometer
Generator type 377G-01........397G-01......548G-02......Centrifugal
Tachometer type 170-01.....Magnetic Tachometer type 257B-01....Electric
Tachometer type 377-01.....378SD-01. Maintenance, calibration and parts
lists. Appears to be WWII instruments...but i know you guys make do.
I am open to offers,
Jim Vydra
Springfield, MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
I live inside the Mode C ring at Atlanta. We fly non radio aircraft all the
time with no problems. If the aircraft is manufactured with no electrical
system, then Mode C is not required. We have (with special permission) flown
the L-2 Taylorcraft into Hartsfield and landed. Several of no-radio craft
flew in, but had to follow a 150 with a radio. One of those darn Cub drivers
did a loop on final, but thats another story.
Oops, back to the subject. Our FISDO has helped us with the rules on our
Piets. If the engine needs a battery and generator to run, it is still
considered a non-electrical aircraft and no Mode-C required. Example:
Corvair with a starter, battery, alternator, battery ignition system, not
magneto. But the first time you run a little tiny wire over to the handheld
radio or GPS, you had better also run the wire to a transponder, because
then it is required.
Check with your local FAA, because they can "translate" the rules in many
different ways.
Barry Davis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Dayton" <deandayton(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mode C
>
> Their used to be a flying club at Palo Alto (maybe still is) that flew a
no
> electric Cub with a handheld radio. It was a lot of fun to fly, but it
> certainly did limit where you could go in that area.
>
> Dean Dayton
> >
> >From: Jeff Cours <piet-j(at)moriarti.org>
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: introduction and -- where's the cargo go?
> >
> >
> >Christian Bobka wrote:
> > > Why the mode C?
> >
> >Unfortunately, the two nearby airports (San Carlos and Palo Alto) are
> >both within San Francisco International's mode C veil. I'm not too
> >worried about installing mode C, though one of the things I'm pondering
> >as I decide whether or not to build a Piet is that I'd be flying it out
> >of some crowded, tower controlled airports with concrete runways and
> >fairly complex airspace -- not exactly a Piet's native environment. So,
> >it'd probably need to pick up some extra equipment, which starts to
> >detract from its simplicity. On the other hand, I really like the fact
> >that it has a nice, slow cruise speed, which would give me plenty of
> >time to figure out which way I need to go next so I don't fly through
> >the wrong airspace on my way out to the wide open places.
> >
> >- Jeff C.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
there's also the "other" way to get around it....
Run battery and power your comm radio with it but keep the battery charged via
a wind driven generator.... The FAR states that an airplane with an engine driven
electrical system needs a Mode C Xponder.... wind driven is exempt. I
have even talked with a couple DAR's on this recently and they agree that it
is perfectly legal.
This is how I plan on doing my Corvair powered GN-1 which will be based within
Phoenix 30nm class B
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Davis
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mode C
I live inside the Mode C ring at Atlanta. We fly non radio aircraft all the
time with no problems. If the aircraft is manufactured with no electrical
system, then Mode C is not required. We have (with special permission) flown
the L-2 Taylorcraft into Hartsfield and landed. Several of no-radio craft
flew in, but had to follow a 150 with a radio. One of those darn Cub drivers
did a loop on final, but thats another story.
Oops, back to the subject. Our FISDO has helped us with the rules on our
Piets. If the engine needs a battery and generator to run, it is still
considered a non-electrical aircraft and no Mode-C required. Example:
Corvair with a starter, battery, alternator, battery ignition system, not
magneto. But the first time you run a little tiny wire over to the handheld
radio or GPS, you had better also run the wire to a transponder, because
then it is required.
Check with your local FAA, because they can "translate" the rules in many
different ways.
Barry Davis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Dayton" <deandayton(at)hotmail.com>
To:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mode C
>
> Their used to be a flying club at Palo Alto (maybe still is) that flew a
no
> electric Cub with a handheld radio. It was a lot of fun to fly, but it
> certainly did limit where you could go in that area.
>
> Dean Dayton
> >
> >From: Jeff Cours <piet-j(at)moriarti.org>
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: introduction and -- where's the cargo go?
> >
> >
> >Christian Bobka wrote:
> > > Why the mode C?
> >
> >Unfortunately, the two nearby airports (San Carlos and Palo Alto) are
> >both within San Francisco International's mode C veil. I'm not too
> >worried about installing mode C, though one of the things I'm pondering
> >as I decide whether or not to build a Piet is that I'd be flying it out
> >of some crowded, tower controlled airports with concrete runways and
> >fairly complex airspace -- not exactly a Piet's native environment. So,
> >it'd probably need to pick up some extra equipment, which starts to
> >detract from its simplicity. On the other hand, I really like the fact
> >that it has a nice, slow cruise speed, which would give me plenty of
> >time to figure out which way I need to go next so I don't fly through
> >the wrong airspace on my way out to the wide open places.
> >
> >- Jeff C.
> >
> >
>
>
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
DJ
Thanks for your info, we plan to recheck with our FISDO before we add the
generators. We are using information given to us from an examiner about a
year and a half ago.
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mode C
>
> there's also the "other" way to get around it....
>
> Run battery and power your comm radio with it but keep the battery charged
via a wind driven generator.... The FAR states that an airplane with an
engine driven electrical system needs a Mode C Xponder.... wind driven is
exempt. I have even talked with a couple DAR's on this recently and they
agree that it is perfectly legal.
>
> This is how I plan on doing my Corvair powered GN-1 which will be based
within Phoenix 30nm class B
>
> DJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Barry Davis
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mode C
>
>
> I live inside the Mode C ring at Atlanta. We fly non radio aircraft all
the
> time with no problems. If the aircraft is manufactured with no
electrical
> system, then Mode C is not required. We have (with special permission)
flown
> the L-2 Taylorcraft into Hartsfield and landed. Several of no-radio
craft
> flew in, but had to follow a 150 with a radio. One of those darn Cub
drivers
> did a loop on final, but thats another story.
> Oops, back to the subject. Our FISDO has helped us with the rules on our
> Piets. If the engine needs a battery and generator to run, it is still
> considered a non-electrical aircraft and no Mode-C required. Example:
> Corvair with a starter, battery, alternator, battery ignition system,
not
> magneto. But the first time you run a little tiny wire over to the
handheld
> radio or GPS, you had better also run the wire to a transponder, because
> then it is required.
> Check with your local FAA, because they can "translate" the rules in
many
> different ways.
> Barry Davis
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dean Dayton" <deandayton(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mode C
>
>
>
> >
> > Their used to be a flying club at Palo Alto (maybe still is) that flew
a
> no
> > electric Cub with a handheld radio. It was a lot of fun to fly, but it
> > certainly did limit where you could go in that area.
> >
> > Dean Dayton
> > >
> > >From: Jeff Cours <piet-j(at)moriarti.org>
> > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: introduction and -- where's the cargo
go?
> > >
> > >
> > >Christian Bobka wrote:
> > > > Why the mode C?
> > >
> > >Unfortunately, the two nearby airports (San Carlos and Palo Alto) are
> > >both within San Francisco International's mode C veil. I'm not too
> > >worried about installing mode C, though one of the things I'm
pondering
> > >as I decide whether or not to build a Piet is that I'd be flying it
out
> > >of some crowded, tower controlled airports with concrete runways and
> > >fairly complex airspace -- not exactly a Piet's native environment.
So,
> > >it'd probably need to pick up some extra equipment, which starts to
> > >detract from its simplicity. On the other hand, I really like the
fact
> > >that it has a nice, slow cruise speed, which would give me plenty of
> > >time to figure out which way I need to go next so I don't fly through
> > >the wrong airspace on my way out to the wide open places.
> > >
> > >- Jeff C.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
<http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters, especially the ole ones,
Just talked to my insurance man. Told him I have had a policy for my Test
Pilot and liability for a year and wanted to ask if they would cancel my policy
when I become eligible to fly under the new Sport Pilot Category.
He says: The catagory will be announced at Oshkosh but still has a lot of
refining to do and would not become effective any earlier than December or maybe
later. However; he said they WILL insure me if the Pietenpol meets all the
specs as a sport plane AND if I have no restrictions on my drivers lic. I'm
feeling a little better after having talked to him.
This information is aimed at those with deep concern and you healthful birds
can just ignore this little piece of information.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
Thanks, Corky...I'm an ol' bird from Napoleonville...Are you in La or L.A.???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Carb,
I'm in Shreveport. Glad to hear from another Piet person in the great stet.
Jim Cooper in Abbeville-Lafayette is building a GN. Great guy you should meet
and visit if possible. I completed my first Piet last Sep and have about 36 hrs
flying on it plus I started another Piet in Feb this year and am getting
along pretty fast on it. Are you building or just planning to?
Corky
PS Give my regards to Judge Leon LeSurer and his wife Mary. Old, old friends.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stefan Vorkoetter <stefan(at)capable.ca> |
| Subject: | Canadian Advanced Ultralight |
Does anyone know if a Piet qualifies as an Advanced Ultralight (AUL) in
Canada (similar in spirit to the proposed Sport Pilot category in the US,
only we've already had it for years).
If so, does anyone know if the inspection requirements (and costs) for a
homebuilt AUL are any different than those of a homebuilt "airplane".
Stefan Vorkoetter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Vydra <jvydra(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Hi all,
I just listed about 10 EAA manuals on ebay..search under aviation. Some piet suff
in them.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
Leon is an old friend of our family too....small world. I no longer live in
that area. I've made my home in Huntsville, AL for the last 40 years....but as
you may know, one doesn't get that Bayou LaFouche water out of your veins. I
have acquired two Piet projects during the past year. I got the first one in
July, 2002, then about four months later, I ran into a real peach that met my
set of requirements closer than the first one so I bought it too. I call the
first one "Piet" and the second one "RePiet". I'm covering RePiet now (Stitts).
It's A-powered, 19" wheels.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatthe1(at)rochester.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Spruce Kit for Sale |
Yes, I know that there are no full kits.
I have also figured out that I will not get to build a plane until I retire
- at least 15 more years. Plus I am going to redo the fabric on the wings
of my Taylorcraft this winter so that will take a lot of my time.
I am going to offer it here first and if there are no bites it will go on
either barnstormers or EBay.
For Sale:
Wood kit for Long Fuselage Pietenpol. Purchased in March of 1999 from
Western Aircraft Supply. I have built 6 ribs since then. All other wood
is still in the shipping tubes. This is all of the spruce to build a
Pietenpol Aircamper. I will include the already built ribs and a rib jig.
Full set of plans purchased from the Pietenpol family. Includes 3 piece
wing and Corvair sheets.
Reprint package of BPA newsletters from July 83 - 2nd Quarter 99. This is
the set that Mike Bill put together a few years back.
Wood is located in Retsof, NY which is about 5 miles from Geneseo (D52). I
will not ship it and will not sell the plans or newletters seperately
unless the wood is already gone. I will deliver within about 100 miles of
Geneseo (US only).
$1600 for all. If you think it is too much let me know what you think it
is worth.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | a nice Sky Scout |
Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers (those not at Brodhead/AirVenture)-
John Myers was kind enough to send me a picture of his Sky Scout, "Pietey
Wheatstraw", and some information on how it flies. I hope he doesn't mind
that I've uploaded that to a page on my website, at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/PieteyPiet.html
John gives a description of how he has his Scout rigged and how it flies,
after my questions about zero dihedral and engine downthrust.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Textor <Jack(at)personnelincorporated.com> |
| Subject: | signing off for Brodhead / OSH |
Will be offline a few days, hope to meet you all in Brodhead this weekend,
then heading to OSH.
Jack Textor
Pietenpol Plans
RV8 wings and tail done
What's up with that!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Pacific Scientific T5 cable tensiometer |
I picked up a used Pacific Scientific cable tensiometer on ebay for $100.
These gor for like $800 new. It did not come with risers.
I've never used one before and am wondering what number risers are used for
which size of cable.
Also where can I send it for calibration and where would I buy the risers
for it?
Anyone have one of these?
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pacific Scientific T5 cable tensiometer |
Do you think you could get close enough by calibrating it yourself? If it's
for use on your Piet, you could suspend a known weight from a piece of 3/32
cable, to produce a known tension in the cable. My problem is I don't know
anything about the required tensions in the various cables in the Piet. I have
just
finished my wing panels and I guessed at the tension......Any
suggestions?....Carl V.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pacific Scientific T5 cable tensiometer |
Carl,
No intention to barge in a discussion:
On the subject of cable tensions I asked for and received next to nil when I
started to complete my wings soooooooo I turned buckles, measured, turned
buckles, measured some more until I thought they were tight enough to hold the
thing in shape then I proceded to tune the cables as you would the strings on a
bull fiddle or a Fender. I used the same procedure for the cabanne cables as
well as the wing strut cables. It equalizes the tension more accurately than
could ever be done with a tool. Couldn't use the same technic on the tail feather
cables as they are 1/16 and the pitch would be too high for my hearing range
as my highs went with WWII.
Try it, it might work for you.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pacific Scientific T5 cable tensiometer |
Sorry,
I forgot to add that the sounds should be the same only on the cables of
similiar lengths.
Corky, beginning to not remember everything.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
Wow. I'd never been before. Next year I'm bringing my wife and kids.
Got to ride in the Orange Ford Piet - very cool...
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
Am at the point of decision as to whether I go with a single nose tank, not
as yet fabricated, or a nose and c/s tank. The wing tank has a capacity of 9.3
gals and/ or the nose tank could be 10 gals w/ c/s tank or 16 gal without the
c/s tank.
There are positives and negatives either way.
If both tanks are available, use the wing tank with a passenger. When solo
use only the nose tank. There are many other factors I'm sure but I would
appreciate some noise on this subject as decision time is now.
If both tanks are available I could almost fly from La to see the fisherman.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
Corky,
Since I used to fly U/L's with always keeping an eye on the 5 gallons, with
this Piet I put a 10 gal center section tank, and a 14 gallon nose tank.
Went to the 100LL gas guy the other day and it cost $45.00 to top up.
Whew!! Oh well, I know they are there, even though I don't have to fill
them.
I may be able to reach the fisherman from Northern NJ!!!!!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Decision
>
>
> Pieters,
>
> Am at the point of decision as to whether I go with a single nose tank,
not
> as yet fabricated, or a nose and c/s tank. The wing tank has a capacity of
9.3
> gals and/ or the nose tank could be 10 gals w/ c/s tank or 16 gal without
the
> c/s tank.
> There are positives and negatives either way.
> If both tanks are available, use the wing tank with a passenger. When solo
> use only the nose tank. There are many other factors I'm sure but I would
> appreciate some noise on this subject as decision time is now.
> If both tanks are available I could almost fly from La to see the
fisherman.
>
> Corky
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pacific Scientific T5 cable tensiometer |
Corky...Your finger twanging tensiometer system sounds great, but does it
still work when the wires are touching at the mid-point (or the 'button'
spacers).
and gee, Walt and Corky...Do you REALLY want to see the Fisherman? Don
Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pacific Scientific T5 cable tensiometer |
Just pull the other cable out of the way so the cable will vibrate it's full
amplitude.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pacific Scientific T5 cable tensiometer |
In a message dated 7/27/2003 6:27:20 PM Central Standard Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
> Just pull the other cable out of the way so the cable will vibrate it's
> full
> amplitude.
>
Of course Corky. Boy, I didn't think THAT one out !! Guess I'll pull the
"buttons" off and try your method. Thanks Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
Corky,
I got to check out Michael Cuy's beautiful machine with the nose tank
and storage in the center section at Brodhead. That center section
holds a lot of stuff, and he doesn't seem to have endurance issues with
the nose tank (though I did not talk to him about that). I like the
thought of being able to hold charts/laptop/toothpaste, etc., up there
out of the way, and the nose tank probably helps out with CG issues.
Speaking of M. Cuy, he has got a killer smoke system. Absolutely
killer. And ingeniously simple. I want one for my car...
John (still jazzed about Brodhead)
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> Isablcorky(at)aol.com Sunday, July 27, 2003 5:08:20 PM >>>
Pieters,
Am at the point of decision as to whether I go with a single nose tank,
not
as yet fabricated, or a nose and c/s tank. The wing tank has a capacity
of 9.3
gals and/ or the nose tank could be 10 gals w/ c/s tank or 16 gal
without the
c/s tank.
There are positives and negatives either way.
If both tanks are available, use the wing tank with a passenger. When
solo
use only the nose tank. There are many other factors I'm sure but I
would
appreciate some noise on this subject as decision time is now.
If both tanks are available I could almost fly from La to see the
fisherman.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | Canadian Advanced Ultralight |
Stefan
Try the Recreational Aircraft Association www.raa.ca on the net I have
heard that the Piet will fit into the advanced UL category but it also
seems to me that advanced UL prevents owner maintenance. Better check it
out.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stefan
Vorkoetter
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Canadian Advanced Ultralight
Does anyone know if a Piet qualifies as an Advanced Ultralight (AUL) in
Canada (similar in spirit to the proposed Sport Pilot category in the
US,
only we've already had it for years).
If so, does anyone know if the inspection requirements (and costs) for a
homebuilt AUL are any different than those of a homebuilt "airplane".
Stefan Vorkoetter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net> |
| Subject: | Brodhead impressions from a newbie |
Hello everyone,
I just recently joined the group and this is my first posting.
This my third trip to Brodhead. The last was over 5 years ago. (I kind of
dropped out of flying after the engine was stolen out of my Piper, but that
is another story)
Anyway, I have been smitten by the Piet for years and now that I'm retired
plan to do something about it.
There were two Corvair powered Piets, one of them being the "Last Orginial"
NX899H. The other one had "Brown Aero" on the fuselage. I did not get to
talk with either owner, there were so many people asking questions.
While at Brodhead I purchased William Wynn's book, "Corvair Flight Engines
for use in Experimental Aircraft",
Three Tee shirts, two cast aluminum rocker covers and a Corvair engine.
The Hoopman family donated Orrins personal collection of Pietenpol
Newsletters, Sport Avaitions and newsletters from the Internation Pietenpol
Association to anyone that wanted them. They were on a table and while I
would like to have taken them all, I only took three. One nice thing is
that they were addressed to Orrin Hoopman. I get a copy BAP issue 31 - 1st
quarter 1991 which featured an article by B.H. Pietenpol about the Corvair
engine conversion. There are no pictures included but if anyone would like
a copy please send me an off list e-mail with their snail mail address. As
long as the volume is not too high they are free if it gets to be too much
I'll ask a for a buck. You will still need to get the instructions from Don
Pietenpol but the article is interesting anyway.
Mike Cuy's Piet was there and it is truly a beautiful aircraft. Mike Cuy
and Lowell Frank were the only two Piet owners that I was able to speak with
and both were very courteous and gave thoughtful answers.
I took about 200 hundred pictures mostly of Piets but some of the antique
aircraft at the show. After I get them oganized I will post them on my web
site. Many pictures show details like landing gear closeups, model "A"
engines, Corvair engines, instrument panels and so fourth and probably won't
be of much interest to anyone except builders. I did get several different
cockpit door pictures from two different Corbins and the Heath Parsol from
the inside showing construction details. I'm going to have to put a door in
the front cockpit because wife has arthritus in her knees and won't be able
to get in otherwise.
William Wynn's seminar on the Corvair conversion was very interesting, as
was Larry Hudson's converted Corvair engine which was displayed in the
pavilion for several hours while Larry patiently answered questions. Again
it was too crowed to get an overall picture, but I did get a few showing
some details, prop hub, starter etc.
My advice to anyone going to Brodhead that must drive through Beloit is be
well prepared ahead of time. I got directions from Yahoo which were wrong,
I stopped and got directions at a store which were wrong also. Finally I
bought a map and the clerk at that store gave me perfect directions. I
didn't need the map but got it anyway out of gratitude. I arrived at the
airport after dark, too late to try and put up my tent so spent the first
night in my car. After while, pain becomes somewhat of a sedative and I did
get some sleep. In the morning two very nice gentleman from the UK helped
me put up my tent. Actually, I think they took pity on me. Anyway, never
put up a tent for the first time in public, practice doing it somewhere
private until you know what to do. All in all everyone was very polite I
had a great time, met some truly nice people, learned a lot and am ready to
come back next year. One thing I heard someone say is that they flew over
Oshkosh, threw out their billfold then and came on to Brodhead.
Regards,
Bob Bailey
P.S. Sorry this got to be so long, sometimes I get carried away. I hope no
one minds and I promise to keep the stupid questions to a minimum. I plan
to do the engine conversion and make all the metal parts first.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie |
Bob B.
Thanks for the newsy info about Brodhead. I was unable to go this year but
reading your letter gives me the feeling of having been there.
I am looking forward to seeing your pictures. Post the web site for them
when you get them ready for viewing.
I have a Corvair about ready to run and have the long fuselage glued up.
Retirement jobs keeps me from doing as much as I would like.
Thanks.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead impressions from a newbie
>
> Hello everyone,
> I just recently joined the group and this is my first posting.
>
> This my third trip to Brodhead. The last was over 5 years ago. (I kind
of
> dropped out of flying after the engine was stolen out of my Piper, but
that
> is another story)
> Anyway, I have been smitten by the Piet for years and now that I'm retired
> plan to do something about it.
>
> There were two Corvair powered Piets, one of them being the "Last
Orginial"
> NX899H. The other one had "Brown Aero" on the fuselage. I did not get to
> talk with either owner, there were so many people asking questions.
>
> While at Brodhead I purchased William Wynn's book, "Corvair Flight Engines
> for use in Experimental Aircraft",
> Three Tee shirts, two cast aluminum rocker covers and a Corvair engine.
>
> The Hoopman family donated Orrins personal collection of Pietenpol
> Newsletters, Sport Avaitions and newsletters from the Internation
Pietenpol
> Association to anyone that wanted them. They were on a table and while I
> would like to have taken them all, I only took three. One nice thing is
> that they were addressed to Orrin Hoopman. I get a copy BAP issue 31 -
1st
> quarter 1991 which featured an article by B.H. Pietenpol about the Corvair
> engine conversion. There are no pictures included but if anyone would
like
> a copy please send me an off list e-mail with their snail mail address.
As
> long as the volume is not too high they are free if it gets to be too much
> I'll ask a for a buck. You will still need to get the instructions from
Don
> Pietenpol but the article is interesting anyway.
>
> Mike Cuy's Piet was there and it is truly a beautiful aircraft. Mike Cuy
> and Lowell Frank were the only two Piet owners that I was able to speak
with
> and both were very courteous and gave thoughtful answers.
>
> I took about 200 hundred pictures mostly of Piets but some of the antique
> aircraft at the show. After I get them oganized I will post them on my
web
> site. Many pictures show details like landing gear closeups, model "A"
> engines, Corvair engines, instrument panels and so fourth and probably
won't
> be of much interest to anyone except builders. I did get several
different
> cockpit door pictures from two different Corbins and the Heath Parsol from
> the inside showing construction details. I'm going to have to put a door
in
> the front cockpit because wife has arthritus in her knees and won't be
able
> to get in otherwise.
>
> William Wynn's seminar on the Corvair conversion was very interesting, as
> was Larry Hudson's converted Corvair engine which was displayed in the
> pavilion for several hours while Larry patiently answered questions.
Again
> it was too crowed to get an overall picture, but I did get a few showing
> some details, prop hub, starter etc.
>
> My advice to anyone going to Brodhead that must drive through Beloit is be
> well prepared ahead of time. I got directions from Yahoo which were
wrong,
> I stopped and got directions at a store which were wrong also. Finally I
> bought a map and the clerk at that store gave me perfect directions. I
> didn't need the map but got it anyway out of gratitude. I arrived at the
> airport after dark, too late to try and put up my tent so spent the first
> night in my car. After while, pain becomes somewhat of a sedative and I
did
> get some sleep. In the morning two very nice gentleman from the UK helped
> me put up my tent. Actually, I think they took pity on me. Anyway, never
> put up a tent for the first time in public, practice doing it somewhere
> private until you know what to do. All in all everyone was very polite I
> had a great time, met some truly nice people, learned a lot and am ready
to
> come back next year. One thing I heard someone say is that they flew over
> Oshkosh, threw out their billfold then and came on to Brodhead.
> Regards,
> Bob Bailey
> P.S. Sorry this got to be so long, sometimes I get carried away. I hope
no
> one minds and I promise to keep the stupid questions to a minimum. I plan
> to do the engine conversion and make all the metal parts first.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pacific Scientific T5 cable tensiometer |
Thanks for your comments, Corky. That's about what I've done too. The
tensions may not be right, but they're close to even...Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pacific Scientific T5 cable tensiometer |
My "fergetter" works great. It's my "rememberer" that doesn't work so
hot....Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
When I was a kid I had one for my car (a Model A). 'Very dangerous...used it
(once) on the highway...Stopped traffic for a while until the smoke
cleared...Carl V.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seibert Bob-r18643 <Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com> |
On Saturday 26 July 2003 Pietenpol N23TX finally took to the sky.
This thing is so different from an RV it's almost shocking!
First flight was about 15 minutes - It flew OK I guess but was out of rig so I
didn't try any slow flight/stalls.
Lesson learned ...shrinking the ceconite really can twist those flying surfaces!
Shortened the right rear strut .4 inches and raised the HS leading edges by adjusting
the brace wires.
Yesterday, with the re-rigging complete it went back up and we had a ball just
buzzing around all over the Taylor Texas skies!
Luke Skiles flew chase for me with his Heath Parasol so I have a witness that this
Piet actually does 90+ mph. (It sure doesn't like it though - feels like it
needs boosted controls at that speed!)
Stalls are sub 40 only I was too nervous to try to watch gauges too closely.
At 1750 rpm and 70-75 indicated it's just a joy to fly around in!
It's about like looking out of a helicopter only much neater sounding!
I just flew around until the sinking gas gage said it was time to go back to Macho
Grande Field.
Despite my ham-handed techniques, it lands very nicely. (3 landings now and only
went off in the weeds once)
Another lesson learned... Don't wear your good baseball cap in an open cockpit
plane! My favorite one is going to wind up in some cow's hay bale lunch!
Just ordered a cloth helmet and goggles today. My hair hurts :-)!!!
Everybody just keep sawing and gluing. It is really worth the effort to fly such
a unique airplane!
Brodhead next year????
Regards,
Bob Seibert
NX23TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie |
>
>Bob B.
>Thanks for the newsy info about Brodhead. I was unable to go this year but
>reading your letter gives me the feeling of having been there.
>I am looking forward to seeing your pictures. Post the web site for them
>when you get them ready for viewing.
>I have a Corvair about ready to run and have the long fuselage glued up.
>Retirement jobs keeps me from doing as much as I would like.
>Thanks.
>Alex Sloan
Bob B.
Nice to see you on the list. I enjoyed meeting you at Brodhead and talking
about various things. I'll send along the metal fuselage info I promised as
soon as I get a chance to dig it out.
BTW, I want to publicly give Gene Rambo a huge 'Thank You' for stopping off
in OH and giving me a lift to Brodhead in his Aztec - truly the 'heavy
metal' at Brodhead this year:). I can't thank Gene enough, because without
the ride, I would not have beeen able to be there this year.
Also, a big thanks to Ken Perkins (& his unknown pilot) for hopping rides
in his beautiful orange Piet - my first ride in an 'A' powered one.
I also enjoyed meeting all of you on this list who previously were only
names on the screen.
Hope to see you all again next year!
Kip Gardner
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Green <mmml(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re CAble Tensiometer |
DJ,
I,m in Australia, so I can't tell you where to get the tensiometer calibrated,
but I'm sure an A&P at your local airport would be able to point you in the right
direction. They would also be able to tell you where to get the risers. I'm
your equivilent of your A&P here in Australia and the calibration company provides
us with lost risers.
# 1 riser = 1/16", # 2 riser =3/32" and 1/8", # 2C = 5/32" and 3/16".
Mike Green
Victoria,
Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Re CAble Tensiometer |
Hi friends
About the cables tension, remember that the Piet have
a little problem with the geometry on the first stage
for elevators, if you adjust the tension on the
neutral position, when you move the control, the
adjust is lose, i don't install the ailerons cables
yet, but it seems to be right.
If someone have the correct geometry please advice to
the group..
Saludos de Mexico
Javier Cruz
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
congrats Bob
It's very good to ear that other Piet is on the sky,
do you have any pictures or web?
Javier Cruz
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: thumbs up or down?? |
In a message dated 7/27/2003 9:17:49 PM Central Standard Time,
wbeevans(at)verizon.net writes:
> I say use the back door for awhile.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
> we all have a reason on this earth
>
>
I'll throw in with Walt. When you're still feeling the Brodhead rush why
spoil it ? Give him (or her) a break. Maybe another day or two! Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Pacific Scientific T5 cable tensiometer |
You could simply hold them together with fingers
at cross. Twang both at the same time and adjust
until Wa-Wa sound stops and you have a continuous
clean note.
Get an old guitar player to show you if you're not
sure. The new guys all use those electronic tuners
and might not know the old way. Sort of like learning
navigation with a GPS without learning dead reckoning
and map reading.
Use the "hold one away" trick when equalizing the
front left and front right and do the same thing.
The farther apart the tension, the faster the wa-wa.
As you get closer they lengthen out, waaa-waaa,
waaaaa-waaaaa, etc until the notes are the same.
This assumes that the vibrating mass is the same
for both " strings"which is not really possible but
certainly close enough for our purposes.
Clif
PS, Know any guitar,fiddle,banjo players that
might trade a ride for twanging? I'd bet they'd
get a kick out of " tuning " an airplane!
----- Original Message -----
From: <Waytogopiet(at)aol.com>
> Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
>
> > Just pull the other cable out of the way so the cable will vibrate it's
> > full
> > amplitude.
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Canadian Advanced Ultralight |
Hi Stefan,
As an RAA member I just posted a message
on the RAA list asking for info.
I wouldn't hold out much hope though. All I've
seen so far is for full kits and completed
aircraft that have been inspected at the company
level for compliance with the rules. No owner
made changes allowed at all. If the plane is
squirrely on floats or with an enclosed cabin
you cannot add fins or plates to the tail without
certification from the factory which has to have the
mod passed by the powers that be.
Ditto engines.
If it's either the cost of personal licencing or
medical concerns, you could go to the
recreational pilot permit. The only thing with
that is that you can't fly to the States( like maybe
Oshkosh or Broadhead ) as it's a permit, not a
licence.
Clif
>
>
> Does anyone know if a Piet qualifies as an Advanced Ultralight (AUL) in
> Canada (similar in spirit to the proposed Sport Pilot category in the
> US,
> Stefan Vorkoetter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stefan Vorkoetter <stefan(at)capable.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Canadian Advanced Ultralight |
>
> As an RAA member I just posted a message
> on the RAA list asking for info.
Much appreciated!
> If it's either the cost of personal licencing or
> medical concerns, you could go to the
> recreational pilot permit. The only thing with
> that is that you can't fly to the States( like maybe
> Oshkosh or Broadhead ) as it's a permit, not a
> licence.
No, I already have my PPL. I'm just checking if its possible to avoid the
hassle and cost of some of the inspections otherwise required. The thing I
like about a Piet is that it's cheap to get started, unless of course you
have to pay for all the "before you start" stuff that the gov wants.
Stefan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chris
Sacramento, CA
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
I found these overhaul manuals for sale on the Internet. I dont know if they
are still available new for the small Continental engines or not so I figured I
would pass them along. The manual I got with my A-75 was published in 1944.
Chris in Sacramento,CA trying to survive the 17th day over 100 degrees this
month.
10-5-D-D-C-4...MAINTENANCE AND OVERHAUL MANUAL CONTINENTAL A50, A65, A75, A80,
with spare parts catalog..............Original manual for these great little "4
bangers"...8.5" X 11" with 97 pages of text, photos, color illustrations, parts
catalog with diagrams, and specifications. Printed 10-55; these engines powered
such greats as Luscombe, Cub, Porterfield, Taylor, and Stinson. Some stains,
but in good shape throughout with no bends or creases................$37
http://www.aviation-antiques.com/1947-civilian-4.html
There is also this one:
12-31-C-R-C-7....CONTINENTAL "C" SERIES MAINTENANCE AND OVERHAUL
MANUAL..........Factory original manual printed 12-1-49 for the C-75, C-85 and
C-90 that powered all the great little planes like: Luscombe, Cessna 140,
Ercoupe, Taylorcraft, Aeronca, and various Pipers.Manual is 8.5 x 11 inches,
with 78 information packed pages containing charts, graphs, color diagrams,
photos, specs, etc. Has a few pencil marks and underlines, but is in pretty
good shape.................$37
http://www.aviation-antiques.com/1947-civilian-7.html
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seibert Bob-r18643 <Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com> |
| Subject: | First Flight Photo |
I (hopefully) have posted a couple of photos of N23TX on the Matronics Photo Share
page.
Hope this worked!
Hey Corky, does that wing paint scheme look familiar?
Bob Seibert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
Gene and Kip,
I got to Brodhead about 6pm on saturday night. You should have told me you
were bringing a big piper. I think I was merely two ships north of you
along the west tree line.
They were out of meal tickets so I had to scramble to feed the kid. By the
time I was organized it was dark. By the time I was roaming in the morning,
everyone was packing up. I was gone by ten.
chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pacific Scientific T5 cable tensiometer
>
> I picked up a used Pacific Scientific cable tensiometer on ebay for $100.
> These gor for like $800 new. It did not come with risers.
>
> I've never used one before and am wondering what number risers are used
for
> which size of cable.
>
> Also where can I send it for calibration and where would I buy the risers
> for it?
>
> Anyone have one of these?
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Photo |
Hey Bob,,, Congrats on the first flight. I hope to be soon up there too.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seibert Bob-r18643" <Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Photo
>
> I (hopefully) have posted a couple of photos of N23TX on the Matronics
Photo Share page.
> Hope this worked!
> Hey Corky, does that wing paint scheme look familiar?
>
> Bob Seibert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
I recieved a number of informative messages
on the RAA list regarding the Canadian
advanced ultralight regs. The Sport Plane
rules are based to some extent on our
AULA. and you guys down south may wind
up with similiar issues when it goes into
effect. If any of you want I can post those
messages on the list or send them
individualy.
Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Bob Seibert ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Bob Seibert
Subject: First Flight of N23TX
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Bob.Seibert@motorola.com.07.29.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
"Email List Photo Shares"
| Subject: | Re: [ Bob Seibert ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
Great pictures, BOB!!!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: [ Bob Seibert ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
>
>
> A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>
> Poster: Bob Seibert
>
>
> Subject: First Flight of N23TX
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Bob.Seibert@motorola.com.07.29.2003/index.html
>
>
> o Main Photo Share Index
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>
> o Submitting a Photo Share
>
> If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include
the
> following information along with your email message and files:
>
> 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
> 2) Your Full Name:
> 3) Your Email Address:
> 4) One line Subject description:
> 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
> 6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
>
> Email the information above and your files and photos to:
>
> pictures(at)matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Photo |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seibert Bob-r18643" <Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Photo
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bob,
Congratulations! Really looks good both in the air and on the ground!
John
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> I (hopefully) have posted a couple of photos of N23TX on the Matronics
Photo Share page.
> Hope this worked!
> Hey Corky, does that wing paint scheme look familiar?
>
> Bob Seibert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie |
Hi Bob Bailey....Welcome to the group but I would recommend not makeing all
the metal parts first. I made that mistake (I followed Tony Bingelis'
recommendation while waiting for my wood order) and ended up remaking alot
of the metal parts. I think most Pieters will agree that you should make the
wood parts first...then.... using the plans as a guide make the metal parts
to fit the wood parts. Just trying to save you some time , metal and
aggrevation. Have fun building though, the Piet is a great project! Ed G.
P.S. The plans call for brazing some of the metal parts and 4130 is the
norm for building these days
( actually since the early 50s) Some people recommend that 4130 should not
be brazed.
>From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead impressions from a newbie
>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:18:14 -0500
>
>
>Hello everyone,
>I just recently joined the group and this is my first posting.
>
>This my third trip to Brodhead. The last was over 5 years ago. (I kind of
>dropped out of flying after the engine was stolen out of my Piper, but that
>is another story)
>Anyway, I have been smitten by the Piet for years and now that I'm retired
>plan to do something about it.
>
>There were two Corvair powered Piets, one of them being the "Last Orginial"
>NX899H. The other one had "Brown Aero" on the fuselage. I did not get to
>talk with either owner, there were so many people asking questions.
>
>While at Brodhead I purchased William Wynn's book, "Corvair Flight Engines
>for use in Experimental Aircraft",
>Three Tee shirts, two cast aluminum rocker covers and a Corvair engine.
>
>The Hoopman family donated Orrins personal collection of Pietenpol
>Newsletters, Sport Avaitions and newsletters from the Internation Pietenpol
>Association to anyone that wanted them. They were on a table and while I
>would like to have taken them all, I only took three. One nice thing is
>that they were addressed to Orrin Hoopman. I get a copy BAP issue 31 -
>1st
>quarter 1991 which featured an article by B.H. Pietenpol about the Corvair
>engine conversion. There are no pictures included but if anyone would
>like
>a copy please send me an off list e-mail with their snail mail address.
>As
>long as the volume is not too high they are free if it gets to be too much
>I'll ask a for a buck. You will still need to get the instructions from
>Don
>Pietenpol but the article is interesting anyway.
>
>Mike Cuy's Piet was there and it is truly a beautiful aircraft. Mike Cuy
>and Lowell Frank were the only two Piet owners that I was able to speak
>with
>and both were very courteous and gave thoughtful answers.
>
>I took about 200 hundred pictures mostly of Piets but some of the antique
>aircraft at the show. After I get them oganized I will post them on my web
>site. Many pictures show details like landing gear closeups, model "A"
>engines, Corvair engines, instrument panels and so fourth and probably
>won't
>be of much interest to anyone except builders. I did get several different
>cockpit door pictures from two different Corbins and the Heath Parsol from
>the inside showing construction details. I'm going to have to put a door
>in
>the front cockpit because wife has arthritus in her knees and won't be able
>to get in otherwise.
>
>William Wynn's seminar on the Corvair conversion was very interesting, as
>was Larry Hudson's converted Corvair engine which was displayed in the
>pavilion for several hours while Larry patiently answered questions. Again
>it was too crowed to get an overall picture, but I did get a few showing
>some details, prop hub, starter etc.
>
>My advice to anyone going to Brodhead that must drive through Beloit is be
>well prepared ahead of time. I got directions from Yahoo which were wrong,
>I stopped and got directions at a store which were wrong also. Finally I
>bought a map and the clerk at that store gave me perfect directions. I
>didn't need the map but got it anyway out of gratitude. I arrived at the
>airport after dark, too late to try and put up my tent so spent the first
>night in my car. After while, pain becomes somewhat of a sedative and I
>did
>get some sleep. In the morning two very nice gentleman from the UK helped
>me put up my tent. Actually, I think they took pity on me. Anyway, never
>put up a tent for the first time in public, practice doing it somewhere
>private until you know what to do. All in all everyone was very polite I
>had a great time, met some truly nice people, learned a lot and am ready
>to
>come back next year. One thing I heard someone say is that they flew over
>Oshkosh, threw out their billfold then and came on to Brodhead.
>Regards,
>Bob Bailey
>P.S. Sorry this got to be so long, sometimes I get carried away. I hope no
>one minds and I promise to keep the stupid questions to a minimum. I plan
>to do the engine conversion and make all the metal parts first.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Michiwaka Flying Club - Aircamper? |
Apparently there is a beautiful yellow Aircamper at the Michiwaka (sp?) airport.
My cousin is hangaring his T-Craft there and happened to notice it in the
hangar that the Michiwaka Flying Club uses...
He said the Aircamper was flawless... a museum piece. Does it belong to anyone
on this list?
I'm headed out there in a few weeks to visit my cousin and I plan on checking it
out.
DJ
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net> |
| Subject: | metal parts 4130 versus 1025?? was impressions of a newbie |
Thanks Ed,
I hadn't thought of that aspect about making the metal parts first.
Regarding 4130 versus 1025 I'm wondering if it isn't just "gilding the lily"
to use 4130 instead of the mild steel?
My understanding is very marginal but I never really understood why use 4130
and then weld it with mild steel rod. Also, they say to reheat the joint to
relieve stress. Isn't this just moving the stress down the tube a ways? I
have a friend that builds race cars and he tells me that they stopped using
4130 because it
has a tendency to crack where subject to a lot of vibration in places like
motor mounts. Also if BHP used 1025 without problems why change to a
product that is a lot more expensive, much harder to work with and prone to
cracking when subject to a lot of vibration?
I'm not trying to start a big deal over this, I would really like to know
the pros and cons. Also I'm a strong adherent of the KISS principle (Keep
it simple stupid!) and with a very few exceptions want to stick with the
basic design.
Regards,
Bob
> I made that mistake (I followed Tony Bingelis'
> recommendation while waiting for my wood order) and ended up remaking alot
> of the metal parts. I think most Pieters will agree that you should make
the
> wood parts first...then.... using the plans as a guide make the metal
parts
> to fit the wood parts. Just trying to save you some time , metal and
> aggrevation. Have fun building though, the Piet is a great project! Ed
G.
> P.S. The plans call for brazing some of the metal parts and 4130 is the
> norm for building these days
> ( actually since the early 50s) Some people recommend that 4130 should not
> be brazed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: metal parts 4130 versus 1025?? was |
impressions of a newbie
| From: | Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
Hi, Bob,
Welcome to the list.
The subject of 4130, welded or brazed, vs 1025, welded or brazed, gets beat
to death a couple of times a year on this list so there is plenty of reading
available in the list archives. Most of the information you will find is
accurate, with some truly expert opinions interjected where need be.
As to race car motor mounts, most list members probably can't say how best
to make them. However, airplane engine mounts have been made from welded
4130, VERY successfully, for more than half a century.
It is true that a properly brazed steel part is very strong. It is also
true that 4130, under very tightly controlled conditions (that you probably
don't have in your garage or basement), can be safely brazed. Most
homebuilders, though, are casual hobbyists and not trained metallurgists.
For the Pietenpol list, which is full of average airplane homebuilders,
blanket recommendations about building materials and techniques have to
address this fact.
Considering the skills, equipment and materials available to the average
homebuilder, you will have a better airplane, and be more confident carrying
your loved ones in it, if you use 4130 welded with mild steel filler rod for
those parts that were labeled as brazed steel in the original Pietenpol /
Hoopman plans. 4130 is a relatively low carbon, high strength, steel alloy
that hardens sufficiently, achieving a very high percentage of its maximum
available strength, when gas (oxy/acetylene) welded as per simple
instructions you can get from a lot of sources, most especially EAA
publications.
Have a lot of fun reading all the archives, instructions, and soon-to-arrive
responses.
Mike Hardaway
on 7/30/03 12:11, baileys at baileys(at)ktis.net wrote:
> Regarding 4130 versus 1025 I'm wondering if it isn't just "gilding the lily"
> to use 4130 instead of the mild steel?
> My understanding is very marginal but I never really understood why use 4130
> and then weld it with mild steel rod. Also, they say to reheat the joint to
> relieve stress. Isn't this just moving the stress down the tube a ways? I
> have a friend that builds race cars and he tells me that they stopped using
> 4130 because it
> has a tendency to crack where subject to a lot of vibration in places like
> motor mounts. Also if BHP used 1025 without problems why change to a
> product that is a lot more expensive, much harder to work with and prone to
> cracking when subject to a lot of vibration?
>
> I'm not trying to start a big deal over this, I would really like to know
> the pros and cons. Also I'm a strong adherent of the KISS principle (Keep
> it simple stupid!) and with a very few exceptions want to stick with the
> basic design.
> Regards,
> Bob
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Neal" <lneal(at)ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: metal parts 4130 versus 1025?? was impressions |
of a newbie
Hey Bob, welcome aboard!!
Naw, don't braze 4130:
1. It's discouraged in FAA documentation.
2. After you braze it, you can hear it saying "tink-tink-tink", a sign of
stresses and not reassuring, take it from me.
3. If you braze 4130, you will have to put up with several hundred emails of
various intent and quality from our beloved group ;-).
Not worth it, use a milder steel or weld the 4130.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: metal parts 4130 versus 1025?? was impressions
of a newbie
>
> Hi, Bob,
>
> Welcome to the list.
>
> The subject of 4130, welded or brazed, vs 1025, welded or brazed, gets
beat
> to death a couple of times a year on this list so there is plenty of
reading
> available in the list archives. Most of the information you will find is
> accurate, with some truly expert opinions interjected where need be.
>
> As to race car motor mounts, most list members probably can't say how best
> to make them. However, airplane engine mounts have been made from welded
> 4130, VERY successfully, for more than half a century.
>
> It is true that a properly brazed steel part is very strong. It is also
> true that 4130, under very tightly controlled conditions (that you
probably
> don't have in your garage or basement), can be safely brazed. Most
> homebuilders, though, are casual hobbyists and not trained metallurgists.
> For the Pietenpol list, which is full of average airplane homebuilders,
> blanket recommendations about building materials and techniques have to
> address this fact.
>
> Considering the skills, equipment and materials available to the average
> homebuilder, you will have a better airplane, and be more confident
carrying
> your loved ones in it, if you use 4130 welded with mild steel filler rod
for
> those parts that were labeled as brazed steel in the original Pietenpol /
> Hoopman plans. 4130 is a relatively low carbon, high strength, steel
alloy
> that hardens sufficiently, achieving a very high percentage of its maximum
> available strength, when gas (oxy/acetylene) welded as per simple
> instructions you can get from a lot of sources, most especially EAA
> publications.
>
> Have a lot of fun reading all the archives, instructions, and
soon-to-arrive
> responses.
>
> Mike Hardaway
>
>
> on 7/30/03 12:11, baileys at baileys(at)ktis.net wrote:
>
> > Regarding 4130 versus 1025 I'm wondering if it isn't just "gilding the
lily"
> > to use 4130 instead of the mild steel?
> > My understanding is very marginal but I never really understood why use
4130
> > and then weld it with mild steel rod. Also, they say to reheat the
joint to
> > relieve stress. Isn't this just moving the stress down the tube a ways?
I
> > have a friend that builds race cars and he tells me that they stopped
using
> > 4130 because it
> > has a tendency to crack where subject to a lot of vibration in places
like
> > motor mounts. Also if BHP used 1025 without problems why change to a
> > product that is a lot more expensive, much harder to work with and prone
to
> > cracking when subject to a lot of vibration?
> >
> > I'm not trying to start a big deal over this, I would really like to
know
> > the pros and cons. Also I'm a strong adherent of the KISS principle
(Keep
> > it simple stupid!) and with a very few exceptions want to stick with the
> > basic design.
> > Regards,
> > Bob
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Piets at Brodhead 2003 |
The Piet fly-in at Brodhead was really great this
year. There were 16 Piets, 4 local and 12 that came cross country. There
were 9 Continental, 5 A-Model and 2 Corvairs.
Below is my unofficial list.
N-number
Pilot
Color
Power
X899LW
Larry Williams
Yellow/Red
A-Model
X799JK Jim
Kensella
Cream/Red
Continental
8497AR
Lowell Frank
Blue/Silver
A-Model
34KP
Ken Perkins
Orange/Cream A-Model
X71WR
Bill
Rewey
Silver/Yellow Continental
X770CG
Chuck Ganzer
Red/Silver
Continental
25101
J R
Reber
Red/Cream
Continental
X37979
Tom
Brown
Red/Clear Corvair
X12969
Gar Williams
Red/Cream
A-Model
X899H
Bill
Knight
Cream/Red
Corvair
X1138D
Dennis
Hall
Blue/Cream A-Model
X899FP
Frank Pavliga
Red/Cream
Continental
X48MC
Mike
Cuy
Blue/White
Continental
57TL
Tim
Mickle Red/Cream
Continental
58TL
Bill
Emo
Red/Cream
Continental
161DW Mehlin
Smith
Silver/Red
Continental
Larry Williams had some really neat new
wheels/breaks. Jim Kensella hopped a lot of rides. Yes, Lowell Frank removed the
Warner and reinstalled the A/B motor. Great to see Chuck Ganzer's Piet, he was
having a ball. The Bill Knight Corvair is the Last Original. Mike Cuy's Piet
still looks just like it just rolled off the showroom floor. If you left
Brodhead before Sunday noon you missed the twin Piets 57TL and 58TL, they had
some really nice detail and were EXACTLY alike, with 0200
Continentals.
Skip, Back in Atlanta
--- Skip Cinda Gadd
--- csfog(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: metal parts 4130 versus 1025?? |
Nothing wrong with using 1020 steel. If the properly designed fitting is
designed to use 1020 steel then its safe to make it out of 1020 steel. Nothing
wrong with using 4130 for a Piet either. I use 4130 because it was easier to
get at the time.
Isn't the Piper Cub fuselages made from mild steel? Thought I read that some
place.
I agree don't make your fittings ahead of time. Make them as needed. Heck
don't make any parts ahead of time. Invariably they wont fit for some reason
or
other. Maybe it's just me.
Chris
Sacramento CA
Quoting baileys :
>
> Thanks Ed,
> I hadn't thought of that aspect about making the metal parts first.
>
> Regarding 4130 versus 1025 I'm wondering if it isn't just "gilding the lily"
> to use 4130 instead of the mild steel?
> My understanding is very marginal but I never really understood why use 4130
> and then weld it with mild steel rod. Also, they say to reheat the joint to
> relieve stress. Isn't this just moving the stress down the tube a ways? I
> have a friend that builds race cars and he tells me that they stopped using
> 4130 because it
> has a tendency to crack where subject to a lot of vibration in places like
> motor mounts. Also if BHP used 1025 without problems why change to a
> product that is a lot more expensive, much harder to work with and prone to
> cracking when subject to a lot of vibration?
>
> I'm not trying to start a big deal over this, I would really like to know
> the pros and cons. Also I'm a strong adherent of the KISS principle (Keep
> it simple stupid!) and with a very few exceptions want to stick with the
> basic design.
> Regards,
> Bob
>
>
> > I made that mistake (I followed Tony Bingelis'
> > recommendation while waiting for my wood order) and ended up remaking alot
> > of the metal parts. I think most Pieters will agree that you should make
> the
> > wood parts first...then.... using the plans as a guide make the metal
> parts
> > to fit the wood parts. Just trying to save you some time , metal and
> > aggrevation. Have fun building though, the Piet is a great project! Ed
> G.
> > P.S. The plans call for brazing some of the metal parts and 4130 is the
> > norm for building these days
> > ( actually since the early 50s) Some people recommend that 4130 should not
> > be brazed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Piets at Brodhead 2003 |
The Piet fly-in at Brodhead was really great this
year. There were 16 Piets, 4 local and 12 that came cross country. There
were 9 Continental, 5 A-Model and 2 Corvairs.
Below is my unofficial list.
N-number
Pilot
Color
Power
X899LW
Larry Williams
Yellow/Red
A-Model
X799JK Jim
Kensella
Cream/Red
Continental
8497AR
Lowell Frank
Blue/Silver
A-Model
34KP
Ken Perkins
Orange/Cream A-Model
X71WR
Bill
Rewey
Silver/Yellow Continental
X770CG
Chuck Ganzer
Red/Silver
Continental
25101
J R
Reber
Red/Cream
Continental
X37979
Tom
Brown
Red/Clear Corvair
X12969
Gar Williams
Red/Cream
A-Model
X899H
Bill
Knight
Cream/Red
Corvair
X1138D
Dennis
Hall
Blue/Cream A-Model
X899FP
Frank Pavliga
Red/Cream
Continental
X48MC
Mike
Cuy
Blue/White
Continental
57TL
Tim
Mickle Red/Cream
Continental
58TL
Bill
Emo
Red/Cream
Continental
161DW Mehlin
Smith
Silver/Red
Continental
Larry Williams had some really neat new
wheels/breaks. Jim Kensella hopped a lot of rides. Yes, Lowell Frank removed the
Warner and reinstalled the A/B motor. Great to see Chuck Ganzer's Piet, he was
having a ball. The Bill Knight Corvair is the Last Original. Mike Cuy's Piet
still looks just like it just rolled off the showroom floor. If you left
Brodhead before Sunday noon you missed the twin Piets 57TL and 58TL, they had
some really nice detail and were EXACTLY alike, with 0200
Continentals.
Skip, Back in Atlanta
--- Skip Cinda Gadd
--- csfog(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Vydra <jvydra(at)sbcglobal.net> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie |
Can anyone cite chapter and verse about why there are recommendations against
brazing 4130? I'm not questioning the truth of it, I'm just trying to cure my
ignorance. This is the second time I've heard this. After the first time, I
went to the best professional welder I know and he couldn't provide any
background.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie |
I have looked at all the libraries around here and never came up with anything
definitive as to why it has become unacceptable (to the FAA) to braze 4130.
The only thing I could find is a reference (and I am paraphrasing here what I
think I remember) saying the brazing material get into the crystalline
structure of the metal and causes the 4130 steel to crack upon cooling. I sure
wish I could find this article again. However, so far I have no luck in finding
it.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
Quoting "" :
>
> Can anyone cite chapter and verse about why there are recommendations against
>
> brazing 4130? I'm not questioning the truth of it, I'm just trying to cure my
>
> ignorance. This is the second time I've heard this. After the first time, I
> went to the best professional welder I know and he couldn't provide any
> background.
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie |
| From: | Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
Considering how easy it is for the hobbyist to make a very high quality weld
in 4130 with an inexpensive oxy/acetylene set compared to the actual skill
level required to produce a high quality braze that won't be as strong and
has so many unknowns about internal corrosion, microscopic cracking, and
other gremlins, why do you even care?
If it's because "BHP did it that way," you might not want follow his lead
blindly in all things; he flew his first airplanes without seatbelts.
on 7/31/03 13:15, catdesign(at)intergate.com at catdesign(at)intergate.com wrote:
>
> I have looked at all the libraries around here and never came up with anything
> definitive as to why it has become unacceptable (to the FAA) to braze 4130.
> The only thing I could find is a reference (and I am paraphrasing here what I
> think I remember) saying the brazing material get into the crystalline
> structure of the metal and causes the 4130 steel to crack upon cooling. I
> sure
> wish I could find this article again. However, so far I have no luck in
> finding
> it.
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
> Quoting "" :
>
>>
>> Can anyone cite chapter and verse about why there are recommendations against
>>
>> brazing 4130? I'm not questioning the truth of it, I'm just trying to cure my
>>
>> ignorance. This is the second time I've heard this. After the first time, I
>> went to the best professional welder I know and he couldn't provide any
>> background.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie |
In a message dated 7/31/03 3:06:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Carbarvo(at)aol.com
writes:
> Can anyone cite chapter and verse about why there are recommendations
against
>
> brazing 4130? I'm not questioning the truth of it, I'm just trying to cure
> my
> ignorance. This is the second time I've heard this. After the first time,
I
> went to the best professional welder I know and he couldn't provide any
> background.
How about in here:
AC 43-13 Acceptable Methods,
Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Inspection and Repair
or: http://av-info.faa.gov/dst/43-13/
or: http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/300/pdf/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Al Latham" <geebeed(at)grm.net> |
I can't find any info either, for the ones lucky enough to go to Oshkosh attend
one of Richard Finch's welding forums and ask
him, reading his bio I think the man can weld Play-Dough...
I've brazed the bird cage on a Piper J5 and I hate it, have no idea why anyone
would want to do it, but that is just me and I have
almost no experience with brazing. Seen others do it and they made it look like
a two year old could do it... I have seen a tubing
cluster that was in the Gee Bee Ascender that was brazed, it is really mangled
from a crash and there isn't a single crack. I
wonder if it was something that was more generally used in the days of 1025 tubing?
Al Latham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Al Latham" <geebeed(at)grm.net> |
Hello Guys,
I joined the group last night and had the pleasure of attending my first Brodhead
Fly-in last weekend.
I can honestly say that we've not enjoyed a fly-in like we did Brodhead in many
years.
I still feel like I'm in a Twilight Zone movie, my wife who came with me mentioned
that she liked the
Corbin Junior Ace, this was odd as it doesn't have a radial or a rounded tail.
Then on the way home
she announced that she wanted to learn to fly. There has been Pietenpol plans laying
around the house
for many years and our friend Gene Rambo is currently building one. I see the Corbin
as a side by side
Piet so I've talked Colleen into a Piet (for now). I really want a Super Ace as
I can't see having a pair of
Piet's.
The Pietenpol or Super Ace projects will not start full force for a while yet as
I have several projects in
work at this time. I am as of this afternoon the proud???Papa of a pair of Model
A engines, another thing
that I'd of gotten work over pretty hard about...all she said was"when do we go
get them???"
Al Latham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clif <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie |
I don't think I'll be doing any more 4130 brazing.
Hearing a loud bang and seeing your nicely brazed
part split before your eyes does tend to limit your
confidence in the procedure.
Funny thing. There were a number of previously
brazed bits that came out fine. At least they seemed
so until I checked with a magnifying glass and
found some littler cracks in some of the others.
One reference is Finch's Performance Welding -
page 130. Essentialy the same as above and below.
Clif
>
> I have looked at all the libraries around here and never came up with
anything
> definitive as to why it has become unacceptable (to the FAA) to braze
4130.
> The only thing I could find is a reference (and I am paraphrasing here
what I
> think I remember) saying the brazing material get into the crystalline
> structure of the metal and causes the 4130 steel to crack upon cooling. I
sure
> wish I could find this article again. However, so far I have no luck in
finding
> it.
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dpilot <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
My information is that you can build a good airplane if you change Mr. Pietenpol's
plans, but you will build a better airplane if you don't change them.
If you choose to change them, you should not call it a Pietenpol.
If you make enough changes, you will have a Bonanza
JimV.
N91467
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dpilot <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
My information is that you can build a good airplane if you change Mr. Pietenpol's
plans, but you will build a better airplane if you don't change them.
If you choose to change them, you should not call it a Pietenpol.
If you make enough changes, you will have a Bonanza
JimV.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Neal" <lneal(at)ev1.net> |
Okay, Jim, Max, how was it?
Now I'm worried, you guys make it back okay?
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | It won't be long now |
Dear Piet group,
This weekend was a MAJOR step toward Low and slow flying for me. My
father-in-law and I just became the very excited owners of a new Pietenpol Air
Camper
project. I say "new" because it has never flown. However, this airplane
project was started way back in 1966 by a Mr. William Hewgley and G.C. Waterman
in
San Antonio TX. We bought it from Mr. Hewgley's son Richard here in the Waco
TX area. This airplane is meticulously built, but not quite complete. Wings
have been covered with ceconite thru penetration coat in 1982 and hangared
since. Tail surfaces built and covered in early 70s with irish linen need
recover. Fuselage is on gear with center section, controls, and 2 fuel tanks (ctr
section and nose) with no fabric. Evidently the airplane has been assembled at
one time with all the controls hooked up. Then disassembled and stored.
Items lacking are the engine, mount, cowling. instruments, fuel plumbing,
windshield, brakes, fuselage fabric and tail fabric. The project came with a
disassembled model A engine, but I have a 75hp continental I've been saving for
the Piet for years. Need to go thru mags and carburetor. We've already
started going thru the entire airplane but finding few items to rework. Fuel tanks
are not quite complete need to install fittings and add a sump section to the
forward tank.
We just trailered it home this afternoon and spent the entire evening
tinkering. My 2 sons (ages 11 and 8) tore off the old rotten irish linen fabric
off
the tail surfaces to find the wood to be like new....beautiful.
This is a HUGE leap forward for me. I have been wishing for time to build my
Piet for over 13 years. Basically spent all those years averaging about a
rib per year. At that pace would never be airborn. So I am tickled to death
now. I became convinced that this project was worthwhile when I slid one of my
ribs right up next to a center section rib to find them so close just as if
they were built in the same jig.
SO...anyway.....we are way PUMPED and plan to be airborne ASAP, estimate 6
months best case....1 year tops. I'll send pics soon. And we may have a model
A engine up for sale soon too...just need to see what we have here.
Cheers...
Terry Bowden
ph (254) 715-4773
fax (254) 853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net> |
| Subject: | newbie type question - flutter |
There doesn't seem to be any type of balance to the Piet's aileron system.
Has anyone ever heard of or experienced problems with flutter?
Thanks,
Bob B. - Missouri
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: It won't be long now |
Terry,
Sounds great. I have not started building yet, but now how the motor,
the tail group wood, and the wood for the ribs. Take it easy, good luck, now
to get off my backside................
Doug Blackburn
Douglas Harley/Elizabeth Blackburn
Yucaipa California
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: It won't be long now
>
> Dear Piet group,
> This weekend was a MAJOR step toward Low and slow flying for me. My
> father-in-law and I just became the very excited owners of a new Pietenpol
Air Camper
> project. I say "new" because it has never flown. However, this airplane
> project was started way back in 1966 by a Mr. William Hewgley and G.C.
Waterman in
> San Antonio TX. We bought it from Mr. Hewgley's son Richard here in the
Waco
> TX area. This airplane is meticulously built, but not quite complete.
Wings
> have been covered with ceconite thru penetration coat in 1982 and hangared
> since. Tail surfaces built and covered in early 70s with irish linen need
> recover. Fuselage is on gear with center section, controls, and 2 fuel
tanks (ctr
> section and nose) with no fabric. Evidently the airplane has been
assembled at
> one time with all the controls hooked up. Then disassembled and stored.
> Items lacking are the engine, mount, cowling. instruments, fuel plumbing,
> windshield, brakes, fuselage fabric and tail fabric. The project came
with a
> disassembled model A engine, but I have a 75hp continental I've been
saving for
> the Piet for years. Need to go thru mags and carburetor. We've already
> started going thru the entire airplane but finding few items to rework.
Fuel tanks
> are not quite complete need to install fittings and add a sump section to
the
> forward tank.
> We just trailered it home this afternoon and spent the entire evening
> tinkering. My 2 sons (ages 11 and 8) tore off the old rotten irish linen
fabric off
> the tail surfaces to find the wood to be like new....beautiful.
> This is a HUGE leap forward for me. I have been wishing for time to build
my
> Piet for over 13 years. Basically spent all those years averaging about a
> rib per year. At that pace would never be airborn. So I am tickled to
death
> now. I became convinced that this project was worthwhile when I slid one
of my
> ribs right up next to a center section rib to find them so close just as
if
> they were built in the same jig.
> SO...anyway.....we are way PUMPED and plan to be airborne ASAP, estimate 6
> months best case....1 year tops. I'll send pics soon. And we may have a
model
> A engine up for sale soon too...just need to see what we have here.
> Cheers...
> Terry Bowden
> ph (254) 715-4773
> fax (254) 853-3805
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: newbie type question - flutter |
----- Original Message -----
From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: newbie type question - flutter
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bob,
The darn'd airplane has so much drag, it won't go fast enough to flutter!
John
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> There doesn't seem to be any type of balance to the Piet's aileron system.
> Has anyone ever heard of or experienced problems with flutter?
> Thanks,
> Bob B. - Missouri
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie |
I researched for a month on the subject of brazing 4130 and found nothing
in writing that stated it shouldn't or couldn't be done. I finally broke
down and ordered the welding book that I was told it was in. I don't have
the book with me here at work but there is one sentence in it that states
that it can split the grain of the 4130 as it cools. Seems to be one mans
theory and there are no structural parts in a Piet that call for brazing
anyway. My guess is there are lots of Piets out there that have been flying
safely for years with brazed 4130 parts in them. I'll get the name and
author of the book this evening unless someone beats me to it. I think the
guys name is Ron Merchado or something like that. I made up some brazed 4130
test pieces and was satisfied that they are as strong as any other brazes
that I have done in the past 35 years. Maybe if the metal is heated more
than necessary the brazing would have a different affect on the metal but
that's not the way I braze so I didn't try it. Ed G.
>From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead impressions from a newbie
>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:05:19 EDT
>
>
>Can anyone cite chapter and verse about why there are recommendations
>against
>brazing 4130? I'm not questioning the truth of it, I'm just trying to cure
>my
>ignorance. This is the second time I've heard this. After the first time, I
>went to the best professional welder I know and he couldn't provide any
>background.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: newbie type question - flutter |
| From: | Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
>
> There doesn't seem to be any type of balance to the Piet's aileron system.
> Has anyone ever heard of or experienced problems with flutter?
> Thanks,
> Bob B. - Missouri
>
At Piet speeds, something has to be broken for flutter to be a problem.
Something like a broken hinge or torn fabric might get you "aflutter," but
you would have other problems then.
I've never heard of an airworthy Piet having the classic "divergent
aero-elastic control surface oscillation" that can affect other, faster,
airplanes.
Mike Hardaway
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | late Congratulations to Bob S. in Texas |
Way to go Bob in Texas with your NEW Pietenpol. It can be done and you
proved it. Inspires old and new builders, for sure. Looking for Carl
Loar to be the next big announcement on the list. Hope so, Carl.
Enjoyed the group at Brodhead this year. Finally made it back there and
was pleased to meet many of the guys from the list. Jim in Plano is a
riot. Absolute riot. Chuck Gantzer from KS makes Waldo Pepper look
like a local flier. Chuck, how was Oshkosh or are you still there
?? Larry Williams---how was your first attempt at going into the big show
at Oshkosh ? Larry built a beauty of a Ford Piet guys. He's got a cool
tent too:) Jim Kinsella has a pretty Piet too and it's got some
power. Jim--did you use your gps all the way home in that haze like I did
? Thank God for gps. I love that thing too much. Gotta hear the 'rest
of the stories'. Finally we had a good turn out of planes. Super.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | looking for parts |
Looking for the following serviceable parts for the Piet project.
-Tachometer and cable for A65 Continental.
-Compass (panel mount)
-Slip indicator, 2 ea.
-Airspeed Indicator with markings below 30 mph
-Oil Temp and Oil pressure gauges.
-Oil pressure/temp senders
-mag switch.
-Altimeter
-gascolator
-Fwd prop hub plate for 6-bolt A65 Cont. (for wood prop)
-fuel site gauge for upper wing tank
-Cont. A65 air box/carb heat mixer
-Cont A65 exhaust parts
-fuel primer
-4 X 8.00 tubes/Tires/mechanical or expander tube Brake parts (J3 cub)
-cover plates for fabric wing inspection holes
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bob Seibert's Piet |
| From: | "Ken Chambers" <kchambers(at)winternals.com> |
Pieters
In case you haven't seen the photos of Bob's Piet on the photoshare
page, let me tell you it's one gorgeous plane and an inspiration to
those of us still building.
I drove up to Bob's airfield south of Taylor Texas yesterday, met Bob
and his lovely wife, and finally got to sit in an honest-to-god
Pietenpol. Bob went for a vintage look, with a machine-turned cowl and
bare wood fuselage, and it turned out beautiful and very light. He says
that on the first flight it left the high-performance chase plane (a
Heath Parasol) in the dust. He's got an A-65 with a metal prop,
stretched fuselage, single-piece wing, and non-steering tailwheel, just
like I'm planning to do.
For me, the good news is that my legs fit in just fine. That's a relief
because I'm 6'2". The bad news is, the windshield comes up to my chin,
so I'm going to have to build up the turtledeck a bit higher on my Piet.
Thanks Bob for all your time and advice. I learned more in a couple of
hours yesterday than I could studying the plans for a year.
Ken Chambers, newly inspired and working on the tail wheel mount and
seats in Austin, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie |
You're just the guy I was lookin' for...THAT is what I call a complete
answer.....Thank you very much. I feel satisfied....Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: It won't be long now |
I think you're a very lucky person...I, too, found a meticulously built
Aircamper project which I am in the process of finishing up. I am in my eighth
month of that effort. When you realize how many hours of craftsmanship you've
bought for a few dollars, it's awsome. I guess my biggest surprise was the
turnbuckles. I gave up trying to find "proper" turnbuckles on the surplus or used
market, so i bought them from A/C Spruce for over $400.00!!!!...Carl Vought
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Vydra <jvydra(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Just posted complete year of Sport Aviation 1970 on ebay.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | newbie type question - flutter |
It's hard to flutter when you can't outrun a butterfly
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of baileys
Subject: Pietenpol-List: newbie type question - flutter
There doesn't seem to be any type of balance to the Piet's aileron system.
Has anyone ever heard of or experienced problems with flutter?
Thanks,
Bob B. - Missouri
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: looking for parts |
Terry et al -
There's a guy who pulls up his motorhome behind the commercial hangars at
the Sun 'n Fun and sells refurbished instruments every year. I bought a
tach for the Cub from him a number of years back. His name is Wayne Jordan,
out of Johnson City,NY . His phone number, from an old business card I
found, is (607) 797-9184.
I don't know if his stuff is all yellow-tagged or not, but it can't hurt to
give him a call.
Jim Ash
>
>Looking for the following serviceable parts for the Piet project.
...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: newbie type question - flutter |
Fellow Piete builder and flyers,
We had a chapter member experience flutter at 80 MPH in his Kit Fox and he
lost his flaparons (sp.) He safely landed the aircraft with only rudder and
elevator and a passenger aboard. Just because we will not be able to fly
fast does not exclude any of us from the possibility of flutter.
Just my opinion.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: newbie type question - flutter
>
> It's hard to flutter when you can't outrun a butterfly
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of baileys
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 7:53 AM
> To: Pietenpol(at)yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: newbie type question - flutter
>
>
> There doesn't seem to be any type of balance to the Piet's aileron system.
> Has anyone ever heard of or experienced problems with flutter?
> Thanks,
> Bob B. - Missouri
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: It won't be long now |
Congratulations Terry. Take it one job at a time and before you know it,
you will have an airplane.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: It won't be long now
>
> Dear Piet group,
> This weekend was a MAJOR step toward Low and slow flying for me. My
> father-in-law and I just became the very excited owners of a new Pietenpol
Air Camper
> project. I say "new" because it has never flown. However, this airplane
> project was started way back in 1966 by a Mr. William Hewgley and G.C.
Waterman in
> San Antonio TX. We bought it from Mr. Hewgley's son Richard here in the
Waco
> TX area. This airplane is meticulously built, but not quite complete.
Wings
> have been covered with ceconite thru penetration coat in 1982 and hangared
> since. Tail surfaces built and covered in early 70s with irish linen need
> recover. Fuselage is on gear with center section, controls, and 2 fuel
tanks (ctr
> section and nose) with no fabric. Evidently the airplane has been
assembled at
> one time with all the controls hooked up. Then disassembled and stored.
> Items lacking are the engine, mount, cowling. instruments, fuel plumbing,
> windshield, brakes, fuselage fabric and tail fabric. The project came
with a
> disassembled model A engine, but I have a 75hp continental I've been
saving for
> the Piet for years. Need to go thru mags and carburetor. We've already
> started going thru the entire airplane but finding few items to rework.
Fuel tanks
> are not quite complete need to install fittings and add a sump section to
the
> forward tank.
> We just trailered it home this afternoon and spent the entire evening
> tinkering. My 2 sons (ages 11 and 8) tore off the old rotten irish linen
fabric off
> the tail surfaces to find the wood to be like new....beautiful.
> This is a HUGE leap forward for me. I have been wishing for time to build
my
> Piet for over 13 years. Basically spent all those years averaging about a
> rib per year. At that pace would never be airborn. So I am tickled to
death
> now. I became convinced that this project was worthwhile when I slid one
of my
> ribs right up next to a center section rib to find them so close just as
if
> they were built in the same jig.
> SO...anyway.....we are way PUMPED and plan to be airborne ASAP, estimate 6
> months best case....1 year tops. I'll send pics soon. And we may have a
model
> A engine up for sale soon too...just need to see what we have here.
> Cheers...
> Terry Bowden
> ph (254) 715-4773
> fax (254) 853-3805
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: newbie type question - flutter |
| From: | Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
Something had to be broken.
The original question was about the lack of control balances on the Piet.
There are none because, if the airplane is intact, and it is being flown at
the airspeeds it can attain on this planet, flutter is not a problem. If
something breaks, such as a control hinge, or a piece of fabric rips, of
course flutter can occur.
I doubt very much that your fellow chapter member experienced divergent
flutter at 80 mph in a Kit Fox that was at that moment fully airworthy.
>
> Fellow Piete builder and flyers,
> We had a chapter member experience flutter at 80 MPH in his Kit Fox and he
> lost his flaparons (sp.) He safely landed the aircraft with only rudder and
> elevator and a passenger aboard. Just because we will not be able to fly
> fast does not exclude any of us from the possibility of flutter.
> Just my opinion.
> Alex Sloan
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: newbie type question - flutter
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: newbie type question - flutter |
Flutter-----
One of the aileronflaparons was completely ripped off of the Kit Fox and the
other broke loose at the outer hinge and was hanging on the inner hinge
banging against the fuselage. He said it happened in the twinkle of an eye.
He was very upset with who ever was responsible for the design as supposedly
there was a fix for this but it never got out to all the Kit Fox builders
and he was one who never got the information till after the fact.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: newbie type question - flutter
>
> Something had to be broken.
> The original question was about the lack of control balances on the Piet.
> There are none because, if the airplane is intact, and it is being flown
at
> the airspeeds it can attain on this planet, flutter is not a problem. If
> something breaks, such as a control hinge, or a piece of fabric rips, of
> course flutter can occur.
> I doubt very much that your fellow chapter member experienced divergent
> flutter at 80 mph in a Kit Fox that was at that moment fully airworthy.
>
> >
> > Fellow Piete builder and flyers,
> > We had a chapter member experience flutter at 80 MPH in his Kit Fox and
he
> > lost his flaparons (sp.) He safely landed the aircraft with only rudder
and
> > elevator and a passenger aboard. Just because we will not be able to
fly
> > fast does not exclude any of us from the possibility of flutter.
> > Just my opinion.
> > Alex Sloan
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: newbie type question - flutter
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | tail brace wire hardware |
Greetings,
I'm looking for help to find hardware. See attached sketch. Our Piet project
has 6 of 8 tail brace wires already built using hardware like shown in the sketch.
Not per the original plans. I have seen hardware like this on other old
airplanes but I don't know where to find it. Before I go to the effort to hand
make these parts, I wonder if anyone on the list knows where to find this type
of hardware.
Thanks,
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dpilot <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: newbie type question - flutter |
Sure, everybody wants to blame someone else dont they.
Thats why I like Mr. Pietenpols's designs.
JimV.
Alex Sloan wrote:
Flutter-----
One of the aileronflaparons was completely ripped off of the Kit Fox and the
other broke loose at the outer hinge and was hanging on the inner hinge
banging against the fuselage. He said it happened in the twinkle of an eye.
He was very upset with who ever was responsible for the design as supposedly
there was a fix for this but it never got out to all the Kit Fox builders
and he was one who never got the information till after the fact.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: newbie type question - flutter
>
> Something had to be broken.
> The original question was about the lack of control balances on the Piet.
> There are none because, if the airplane is intact, and it is being flown
at
> the airspeeds it can attain on this planet, flutter is not a problem. If
> something breaks, such as a control hinge, or a piece of fabric rips, of
> course flutter can occur.
> I doubt very much that your fellow chapter member experienced divergent
> flutter at 80 mph in a Kit Fox that was at that moment fully airworthy.
>
> >
> > Fellow Piete builder and flyers,
> > We had a chapter member experience flutter at 80 MPH in his Kit Fox and
he
> > lost his flaparons (sp.) He safely landed the aircraft with only rudder
and
> > elevator and a passenger aboard. Just because we will not be able to
fly
> > fast does not exclude any of us from the possibility of flutter.
> > Just my opinion.
> > Alex Sloan
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jack Phillips"
> > To:
> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: newbie type question - flutter
> >
>
>
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Williams" <cwilliams(at)amteccontrol.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol For Sale On Ebay |
I have listed my Pietenpol for sale on Ebay. It can be found at
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=242668841
7> &item=2426688417
Included with the airplane is a three piece wing kit made by Charles
Rubeck, wire wheels, and tailwheel.
Thanks for all the good reading the last year and a half and safe flying
to all !!
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tail brace wire hardware |
Terry, attachments do not come through the list server. You will have to
describe what you have or post a picture someplace else or with the list sever
photo share (see the bottom of any email for details).
Chris
Sacramento CA
Quoting "" :
>
> Greetings,
> I'm looking for help to find hardware. See attached sketch. Our Piet
> project has 6 of 8 tail brace wires already built using hardware like shown
> in the sketch. Not per the original plans. I have seen hardware like this
> on other old airplanes but I don't know where to find it. Before I go to the
> effort to hand make these parts, I wonder if anyone on the list knows where
> to find this type of hardware.
> Thanks,
> Terry L. Bowden
> ph 254-715-4773
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
I think they are out of business. They have retired and moved to the
Caribbean after I bought all that hardware at Oshkosh. Seriously, I show 913-884-5930
as their number.
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
That's right the big EAA thing was last week. Guess I should give them a few
days to get back to work. Thanks Tom, I guess now I know who to blame when B&B
is out of everything I need.
and to answer my own question
B & B Aircraft Supplies
Attn Dan & E J Brown
PO Box 37
Gardner, KS 66030
USA
Phone: 913-884-5930
Fax: 913-884-6533
Quoting "" :
>
> I think they are out of business. They have retired and moved to the
> Caribbean after I bought all that hardware at Oshkosh. Seriously, I show
> 913-884-5930
> as their number.
>
>
> Tom Travis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: tail brace wire hardware |
Good luck...No sketch...Say, did you and your Daddy coach football??? Carl
V.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: tail brace wire hardware |
Not the same Terry Bowden that coached Auburn. My only claim to fame will be
this Piet one day I hope.
Anyway....I found that the type of hardware I have and need is quite similar
to that used for outboard bay wing brace wire on luscombes and similar to
Piper pawnee tail brace wires. The Piper parts cost big $ from the parts house.
The ferrules are very similar, maybe identical to the type used on spoke
wheels. I am going to check with some motorcycle shops tomorrow. Perhaps they
can
fix me up with ferrules. Does anyone on the list know if spokes for wheels
use rolled threads or cut threads?
Terry Bowden
ph (254) 715-4773
fax (254) 853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
Chris
Thanks for the info...it got me onto discussions with a friend at work with
an MG midget about spokes. Then we went and looked at his luscombe wings. The
spokes use the same little ferrule I need. After 100 years....these
airplanes are still made out of bicycle parts.
Terry Bowden
ph (254) 715-4773
fax (254) 853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Piet winner at Oshkosh |
Congratulations to Larry Williams his beautiful
A-Model Piet won the Outstanding Workmanship Plaque in the Homebuilt Plans Built
category.
Great job Larry!
--- Skip Cinda Gadd
--- csfog(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet winner at Oshkosh |
Way to go Larry!!!!!!!!!!
Jim D
----- Original Message -----
From: Cinda Gadd
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 8:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet winner at Oshkosh
Congratulations to Larry Williams his beautiful
A-Model Piet won the Outstanding Workmanship Plaque in the Homebuilt Plans Built
category.
Great job Larry!
--- Skip Cinda Gadd
--- csfog(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
"taylorcraft"
Replica of Howard Hughes plane crashes in Yellowstone
rwbhopvs
YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK, Wyo. (AP) - Federal investigators on Tuesday were called
to the site of a fatal airplane crash.
One person was killed Monday evening when an experimental plane crashed north of
Old Faithful in Yellowstone National Park, the Federal Aviation Administration
said.
The Hughes 1B - the only replica of a record-breaking racer designed and flown
by Howard Hughes in 1935 - was en route from Oshkosh, Wis., to Oregon when the
crash occurred, spokeswoman Karen Byrd said.
The pilot was the only person on board but was not identified pending notification
of relatives.
The plane's registered owners were James and Betty Wright of Cottage Grove, Ore.,
according to the FAA's Web site.
The crash started a small fire near Midway Geyser Basin, but it was immediately
contained by park fire crews, park spokeswoman Marsha Karle said.
Several park visitors witnessed the crash and phoned 911. The crash was near the
Firehole River next to the main park road, which was closed for a period Monday
evening.
Hughes designed the original H-1B, which is at the Smithsonian Institution in Washington,
D.C. In 1935, he flew that aircraft to a new speed record and for a
brief period of time was the fastest person ever to pilot an airplane.
The replica was built in 2002 from scratch by a five-man team after hundreds of
hours studying photographs, drawings, test results and measurements of the original
plane.
---
On the Net:
Federal Aviation Administration: http://www.faa.gov
Yellowstone National Park: http://www.nps.gov/yell/
Information on the Hughes H1-B: http://www.wrightools.com/hughes
AP-WS-08-05-03 1136EDT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Al Latham" <geebeed(at)grm.net> |
Hi Christian,
Sad news indeed, I found out at lunch time today about it. My partner and I
were supplying
Jim with some drawings for what was to be his next project, a Lockheed
Sirius. We lost a
fantastic man and flying machine yesterday.
Al Latham,
Lathrop, MO.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: bad news
>
> Replica of Howard Hughes plane crashes in Yellowstone
>
>
> rwbhopvs
>
> YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK, Wyo. (AP) - Federal investigators on Tuesday
were called to the site of a fatal airplane crash.
>
> One person was killed Monday evening when an experimental plane crashed
north of Old Faithful in Yellowstone National Park, the Federal Aviation
Administration said.
>
> The Hughes 1B - the only replica of a record-breaking racer designed and
flown by Howard Hughes in 1935 - was en route from Oshkosh, Wis., to Oregon
when the crash occurred, spokeswoman Karen Byrd said.
>
> The pilot was the only person on board but was not identified pending
notification of relatives.
>
> The plane's registered owners were James and Betty Wright of Cottage
Grove, Ore., according to the FAA's Web site.
>
> The crash started a small fire near Midway Geyser Basin, but it was
immediately contained by park fire crews, park spokeswoman Marsha Karle
said.
>
> Several park visitors witnessed the crash and phoned 911. The crash was
near the Firehole River next to the main park road, which was closed for a
period Monday evening.
>
> Hughes designed the original H-1B, which is at the Smithsonian Institution
in Washington, D.C. In 1935, he flew that aircraft to a new speed record and
for a brief period of time was the fastest person ever to pilot an airplane.
>
> The replica was built in 2002 from scratch by a five-man team after
hundreds of hours studying photographs, drawings, test results and
measurements of the original plane.
>
> ---
>
> On the Net:
>
> Federal Aviation Administration: http://www.faa.gov
>
> Yellowstone National Park: http://www.nps.gov/yell/
>
> Information on the Hughes H1-B: http://www.wrightools.com/hughes
>
>
> AP-WS-08-05-03 1136EDT
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
Was it Jim Wright that was lost?
chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Latham" <geebeed(at)grm.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: bad news
>
> Hi Christian,
>
> Sad news indeed, I found out at lunch time today about it. My partner and
I
> were supplying
> Jim with some drawings for what was to be his next project, a Lockheed
> Sirius. We lost a
> fantastic man and flying machine yesterday.
>
> Al Latham,
> Lathrop, MO.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
> To: "pietenpol" ; "taylorcraft"
>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: bad news
>
>
>
> >
> > Replica of Howard Hughes plane crashes in Yellowstone
> >
> >
> > rwbhopvs
> >
> > YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK, Wyo. (AP) - Federal investigators on Tuesday
> were called to the site of a fatal airplane crash.
> >
> > One person was killed Monday evening when an experimental plane crashed
> north of Old Faithful in Yellowstone National Park, the Federal Aviation
> Administration said.
> >
> > The Hughes 1B - the only replica of a record-breaking racer designed and
> flown by Howard Hughes in 1935 - was en route from Oshkosh, Wis., to
Oregon
> when the crash occurred, spokeswoman Karen Byrd said.
> >
> > The pilot was the only person on board but was not identified pending
> notification of relatives.
> >
> > The plane's registered owners were James and Betty Wright of Cottage
> Grove, Ore., according to the FAA's Web site.
> >
> > The crash started a small fire near Midway Geyser Basin, but it was
> immediately contained by park fire crews, park spokeswoman Marsha Karle
> said.
> >
> > Several park visitors witnessed the crash and phoned 911. The crash was
> near the Firehole River next to the main park road, which was closed for a
> period Monday evening.
> >
> > Hughes designed the original H-1B, which is at the Smithsonian
Institution
> in Washington, D.C. In 1935, he flew that aircraft to a new speed record
and
> for a brief period of time was the fastest person ever to pilot an
airplane.
> >
> > The replica was built in 2002 from scratch by a five-man team after
> hundreds of hours studying photographs, drawings, test results and
> measurements of the original plane.
> >
> > ---
> >
> > On the Net:
> >
> > Federal Aviation Administration: http://www.faa.gov
> >
> > Yellowstone National Park: http://www.nps.gov/yell/
> >
> > Information on the Hughes H1-B: http://www.wrightools.com/hughes
> >
> >
> > AP-WS-08-05-03 1136EDT
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Al Latham" <geebeed(at)grm.net> |
Yes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: bad news
>
> Was it Jim Wright that was lost?
>
> chris bobka
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Al Latham" <geebeed(at)grm.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: bad news
>
>
> >
> > Hi Christian,
> >
> > Sad news indeed, I found out at lunch time today about it. My partner
and
> I
> > were supplying
> > Jim with some drawings for what was to be his next project, a Lockheed
> > Sirius. We lost a
> > fantastic man and flying machine yesterday.
> >
> > Al Latham,
> > Lathrop, MO.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
> > To: "pietenpol" ; "taylorcraft"
> >
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: bad news
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Replica of Howard Hughes plane crashes in Yellowstone
> > >
> > >
> > > rwbhopvs
> > >
> > > YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK, Wyo. (AP) - Federal investigators on
Tuesday
> > were called to the site of a fatal airplane crash.
> > >
> > > One person was killed Monday evening when an experimental plane
crashed
> > north of Old Faithful in Yellowstone National Park, the Federal Aviation
> > Administration said.
> > >
> > > The Hughes 1B - the only replica of a record-breaking racer designed
and
> > flown by Howard Hughes in 1935 - was en route from Oshkosh, Wis., to
> Oregon
> > when the crash occurred, spokeswoman Karen Byrd said.
> > >
> > > The pilot was the only person on board but was not identified pending
> > notification of relatives.
> > >
> > > The plane's registered owners were James and Betty Wright of Cottage
> > Grove, Ore., according to the FAA's Web site.
> > >
> > > The crash started a small fire near Midway Geyser Basin, but it was
> > immediately contained by park fire crews, park spokeswoman Marsha Karle
> > said.
> > >
> > > Several park visitors witnessed the crash and phoned 911. The crash
was
> > near the Firehole River next to the main park road, which was closed for
a
> > period Monday evening.
> > >
> > > Hughes designed the original H-1B, which is at the Smithsonian
> Institution
> > in Washington, D.C. In 1935, he flew that aircraft to a new speed record
> and
> > for a brief period of time was the fastest person ever to pilot an
> airplane.
> > >
> > > The replica was built in 2002 from scratch by a five-man team after
> > hundreds of hours studying photographs, drawings, test results and
> > measurements of the original plane.
> > >
> > > ---
> > >
> > > On the Net:
> > >
> > > Federal Aviation Administration: http://www.faa.gov
> > >
> > > Yellowstone National Park: http://www.nps.gov/yell/
> > >
> > > Information on the Hughes H1-B: http://www.wrightools.com/hughes
> > >
> > >
> > > AP-WS-08-05-03 1136EDT
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet winner at Oshkosh |
Larry--- Well deserved award for you ! And to think that several of us
had to coerce you into putting the
"judge me" sticker on your EAA info card that you slip over the
propeller. You DO have a pretty Pietenpol !!!!
Mike C.
Please DO archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tail brace wire hardware |
The ones I bought, (from bicycle, big motorcycle and from an old Jaguar
car wheel) have rolled threads, my only concern was the type of steel
used in them...
Is there a way to know? some place to have them checked out about the
quality of the material used. If they are made from cold rolled, they
are useless for us, remember that they are several spokes in each
wheel, so they work in "team", I dont know how much pull they can
resist as each (I think the threaded area is their weak link).
I left the idea, a few yers ago for the AN bolt and strap method.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- BARNSTMR(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Not the same Terry Bowden that coached Auburn. My only claim to fame
> will be
> this Piet one day I hope.
> Anyway....I found that the type of hardware I have and need is quite
> similar
> to that used for outboard bay wing brace wire on luscombes and
> similar to
> Piper pawnee tail brace wires. The Piper parts cost big $ from the
> parts house.
> The ferrules are very similar, maybe identical to the type used on
> spoke
> wheels. I am going to check with some motorcycle shops tomorrow.
> Perhaps they can
> fix me up with ferrules. Does anyone on the list know if spokes for
> wheels
> use rolled threads or cut threads?
> Terry Bowden
> ph (254) 715-4773
> fax (254) 853-3805
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: tail brace wire hardware |
Those who have built wire wheels with wide hubs say "rolled" threads are
stronger. (They usually quote Buchanan's Bike Shop in California.) At least one
version of the plans calls for solid wire of (I think) 18 ga. for the
tailfeathers. That turns out to be about .080" diameter. If you're interested,
McMaster
Carr in Atlanta is a source of soft temper, satin finished stainless steel
wire.....Carl Vought
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Brodhead/Oshkosh Pictures |
What a great time. Brodhead is wonderful. The people, the planes, the
field.....just incredible.
The thingy up at Whitman Field the following week is pretty good too, but
BRODHEAD!!!! WOW!!!
It was a treat putting some faces with names this year. A lot of very nice
people, these Pietenpol fanatics!
Last year I ran around looking for a ride (and got 2!) and trying to take it
all in......this year I slowed down and just hung out with the crowd.....it
just can't get any better....
I had to leave before everyone took to the air Saturday evening (to pick up
my 3 oldest sons in Milwaukee, not a bad trade off....) but I was told that
a lot of rides were given. That's great! I've had my ride and won't soon
forget what a thrill the first one is. What a hoot to know how much someone
is enjoying their first ride!
My highlights? Got to meet Gene R, Skip G, Michael C. and break bread with
Chuck G, Larry W and Bill R.
Well, it just goes on and on.....
Here are a few pictures.....
Jim in Plano
> To view Jim Markle's pictures at Shutterfly,
> simply go to:
>
> <http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b325b8c0840b>
>
> (If you can't click on this link, try copying and pasting it
> into your web browser.)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet winner at Oshkosh |
Congratulations Larry. Michael Cuy sent me some pictures of your beautiful
plane. I hated missing Brodhead.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet winner at Oshkosh
>
>
> Congratulations to Larry Williams his beautiful
> A-Model Piet won the Outstanding Workmanship Plaque in the Homebuilt Plans
Built
> category.
>
> Great job Larry!
>
>
> --- Skip Cinda Gadd
>
> --- csfog(at)earthlink.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
After a fly-by and a YEEE HAAWWW (to an audience of 5), I landed at Benton
at 5:30pm, last Sunday evening, to bring the biggest adventure of my life to a
safe end...till the next one. Had a great time, grueling at times, a couple
of thwarted disasters, but I'm already looking forward to next year. The
highlight of the trip was Brodhead...the people and the Pietenpols. Saturday
evening at Brodhead was the best !! After a two porkchop dinner, everybody
launched to the sky !! Best white knuckles flying I've ever done !! What a hoot
!!
It seemed like there were airplanes all over the sky. Mike C. kept puffing
smoke, and there were formations comming together in several places, then they
would break up, and others would form up. Planes landing and taking off,
fly-bys, people going up for the first time in a Pietenpol.
A big Congratulations to Larry Williams...well deserved credit for such fine
workmanship.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead/Oshkosh Pictures |
Thanks for posting the great pictures Jim....I wasn't able to make it this
year so the pics are much appreciated.....Congratulations on your Oshkosh
award Larry And thanks for the positive input on brazing ...I put a LOT of
effort into making my control parts as perfect as possible... to the
plans... just before all this brazing stuff came up on the list. They will
fly but the subject caused me alot of grief.
Ed G.
>From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead/Oshkosh Pictures
>Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:13:38 -0500
>
>
>
>What a great time. Brodhead is wonderful. The people, the planes, the
>field.....just incredible.
>
>The thingy up at Whitman Field the following week is pretty good too, but
>BRODHEAD!!!! WOW!!!
>
>It was a treat putting some faces with names this year. A lot of very nice
>people, these Pietenpol fanatics!
>
>Last year I ran around looking for a ride (and got 2!) and trying to take
>it
>all in......this year I slowed down and just hung out with the crowd.....it
>just can't get any better....
>
>I had to leave before everyone took to the air Saturday evening (to pick up
>my 3 oldest sons in Milwaukee, not a bad trade off....) but I was told that
>a lot of rides were given. That's great! I've had my ride and won't soon
>forget what a thrill the first one is. What a hoot to know how much
>someone
>is enjoying their first ride!
>
>My highlights? Got to meet Gene R, Skip G, Michael C. and break bread with
>Chuck G, Larry W and Bill R.
>
>Well, it just goes on and on.....
>
>Here are a few pictures.....
>
>Jim in Plano
>
>
> > To view Jim Markle's pictures at Shutterfly,
> > simply go to:
> >
> > <http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b325b8c0840b>
> >
> > (If you can't click on this link, try copying and pasting it
> > into your web browser.)
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
Thanks to all for the kind words. I don't know how or when EAA plans on telling
me that I won something but Skip sure is all over the web wringing things out
that are of interest to us all. Thanks, Skip.
Brodhead was great but if I NEVER fly into Oshkosh again it'll be too soon. Maybe
when a little time goes by and I can see things more objectively, I'll change
my attitude. I made it there and back safely and I can forever proclaim that
I flew the airplane I built to the "Big One". Give me Brodhead any day!
It was great to have Bill Rewey, Chuck Gantzer and Jim Markle to hang around with
at OSH. Sort of a support group of familiar faces. It was good to get to know
each of you a little better. Another listee who helped was Cy Galley by virtue
of being in charge of the maintenance compound that my airplane used for a
couple of hours.
The "A" never skipped a beat in all the 21 hours of time it took to go there and
back. I recorded 70 gallons of fuel burned. No worries!!! Gotta love it!
After two weeks of a barnstormer-like existence, I'm still trying to get back in
synch with my real life (or is it?). I just got back yesterday and can't seem
to get enough of the soft mattress and hot shower.
OK, enough rambling........ everyone should have it so good!
Thanks for the support-
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | post those Brodhead photos! |
| From: | "Ken Chambers" <kchambers(at)winternals.com> |
Hey Brodheaders
Show a little sympathy for those who couldn't make it. Post your photos
or put them on Shutterfly a la Jim Markle. (Thanks Jim!)
Ken in Austin, wishing I could have made it there.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead/Oshkosh Pictures |
In a message dated 8/6/03 6:11:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
>
Nice pictures, thanks, - Henry Williams ( Borodent(at)aol.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Big Adventure |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
This list newbie was really surprised by Chuck Gantzer's comments re:
Saturday evening, because I had to leave before dinner. When I left
only one Piet was flying (Ken Perkins', with someone else at the
controls whose name I didn't get); the wind was tres' gusty and cross
which led me to assume that that was why no one else was flying, and
although I had to leave for other reasons was under the impression that
I had seen all of the action for the day anyway. Either the wind died
down a lot, (which of course often happens in the evening), or Piet
pilots can and are willing to fly in fairly trashy conditions. So which
is accurate? I'm hoping next year I'll be building one and I'll try not
to leave so soon!
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | zip code: 75093-3534 Brodhead/Oshkosh Pictures |
Thanks!
P.S. Jim what is your Zip code?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Flying Piets at Brodhead |
Mark--- When most of us arrived at Brodhead on Friday the winds were very
strong out of the south. The airport at Brodhead has a long E-W runway and
two diagonals, both of which were X'ed out when I arrived. (I think they
do that to save lives of people on foot near the flight line and the
hangars to the south) Anyway, the winds were even worse on Saturday and
hardly anybody dared take to the air except for two Aeronca C-3's and one
gorgeous Heath Super Parasol AFTER they opened the SW runway up. About 30
minutes before sunset the winds diminished enough for most of us to get our
Piets in the air. It was still a bit bumpy but we just had to get some in
the air. Some gave rides, others just buzzed around high and low, fast and
slow. It wouldn't have been fair to the people on the ground had we not
been able to fly some that day. Thankfully, we were able to do some flying
at the last light of the day. Great fun !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dpilot <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Big Adventure |
They opened the closed runway into the wind
JimV.
"Hodgson, Mark O" wrote:
This list newbie was really surprised by Chuck Gantzer's comments re:
Saturday evening, because I had to leave before dinner. When I left
only one Piet was flying (Ken Perkins', with someone else at the
controls whose name I didn't get); the wind was tres' gusty and cross
which led me to assume that that was why no one else was flying, and
although I had to leave for other reasons was under the impression that
I had seen all of the action for the day anyway. Either the wind died
down a lot, (which of course often happens in the evening), or Piet
pilots can and are willing to fly in fairly trashy conditions. So which
is accurate? I'm hoping next year I'll be building one and I'll try not
to leave so soon!
Mark Hodgson
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Piets at Brodhead |
Mike,
you forgot about the cessna 140.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying Piets at Brodhead
>
> Mark--- When most of us arrived at Brodhead on Friday the winds were very
> strong out of the south. The airport at Brodhead has a long E-W runway
and
> two diagonals, both of which were X'ed out when I arrived. (I think they
> do that to save lives of people on foot near the flight line and the
> hangars to the south) Anyway, the winds were even worse on Saturday and
> hardly anybody dared take to the air except for two Aeronca C-3's and one
> gorgeous Heath Super Parasol AFTER they opened the SW runway up. About 30
> minutes before sunset the winds diminished enough for most of us to get
our
> Piets in the air. It was still a bit bumpy but we just had to get some
in
> the air. Some gave rides, others just buzzed around high and low, fast
and
> slow. It wouldn't have been fair to the people on the ground had we not
> been able to fly some that day. Thankfully, we were able to do some
flying
> at the last light of the day. Great fun !
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Piets at Brodhead |
>
>Mike,
>
>you forgot about the cessna 140.
Of course, how could I have missed that. My apologies,
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
Can anyone tell me why there are copper Nicopress sleeves and zinc plated
Nicopress sleeves? Are they for specific applications? If so, what are they?
I think I heard about stainless steel cable needing a different type of sleeve.
Is this what the zinc ones are for?
Some where (I think it was in AC43-13) I also read a vague reference that left
me thinking certain sizes of Nicopress sleeves do not use/need the 3 compressed
sections. Is this true?
Also what type of bolt/pin do you use in shackles (AN115-21) and the fork end
(AN161) of a turnbuckle. Are there special pins or do you just use a bolt? Do
shackles come with a pin/bolt or do I have to order them separately?
Figure I would bite the bullet and buy the stuff now, even though I dont need
it. I doubt that in the future the prices will be going down so it makes sound
financial sense to buy now not later (well thats the excuse I am using but in
reality I just want to buy them to have around when I need them in the way far
off distant future). I wish my body could build as fast as my mind can. At
that rate, Id of built three or four planes by now, mistake free of course.
One nice thing about building so slow is your airplane building fund can grow
into a nice little sum of money. Almost enough to buy 35 turnbuckles..now
that is depressing.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
the zinc plated nicopress sleeves are for stainless cables. copper would be used
for galvanized.
As for pins/bolts on fork ends. You can do it either way. I am using clevis pins
with washers and cotter pics to secure my forks, but short AN bolts with lock
nuts would work equally well.
DJ Vegh
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: catdesign(at)intergate.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 11:09 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hardware
Can anyone tell me why there are copper Nicopress sleeves and zinc plated
Nicopress sleeves? Are they for specific applications? If so, what are they?
I think I heard about stainless steel cable needing a different type of sleeve.
Is this what the zinc ones are for?
Some where (I think it was in AC43-13) I also read a vague reference that left
me thinking certain sizes of Nicopress sleeves do not use/need the 3 compressed
sections. Is this true?
Also what type of bolt/pin do you use in shackles (AN115-21) and the fork end
(AN161) of a turnbuckle. Are there special pins or do you just use a bolt?
Do
shackles come with a pin/bolt or do I have to order them separately?
Figure I would bite the bullet and buy the stuff now, even though I dont need
it. I doubt that in the future the prices will be going down so it makes sound
financial sense to buy now not later (well thats the excuse I am using but in
reality I just want to buy them to have around when I need them in the way far
off distant future). I wish my body could build as fast as my mind can. At
that rate, Id of built three or four planes by now, mistake free of course.
One nice thing about building so slow is your airplane building fund can grow
into a nice little sum of money. Almost enough to buy 35 turnbuckles..now
that is depressing.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
-------------------------------------------------
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
You can't use lock nuts with the shackles. But you can use cotter keys
with a drilled shank bolt with a castle nut. A nylock nut is not approved
as the bolt can rotate.
Just about 100% of the applications use a clevis pin and cotter key. The
hardware supplier should be able to tell you what size clevis is normally
used with the specific size of shacle you are using.
chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hardware
>
> the zinc plated nicopress sleeves are for stainless cables. copper would
be used for galvanized.
>
> As for pins/bolts on fork ends. You can do it either way. I am using
clevis pins with washers and cotter pics to secure my forks, but short AN
bolts with lock nuts would work equally well.
>
> DJ Vegh
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: catdesign(at)intergate.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 11:09 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hardware
>
>
> Can anyone tell me why there are copper Nicopress sleeves and zinc
plated
> Nicopress sleeves? Are they for specific applications? If so, what are
they?
> I think I heard about stainless steel cable needing a different type of
sleeve.
> Is this what the zinc ones are for?
> Some where (I think it was in AC43-13) I also read a vague reference
that left
> me thinking certain sizes of Nicopress sleeves do not use/need the 3
compressed
> sections. Is this true?
>
> Also what type of bolt/pin do you use in shackles (AN115-21) and the
fork end
> (AN161) of a turnbuckle. Are there special pins or do you just use a
bolt? Do
> shackles come with a pin/bolt or do I have to order them separately?
>
> Figure I would bite the bullet and buy the stuff now, even though I dont
need
> it. I doubt that in the future the prices will be going down so it
makes sound
> financial sense to buy now not later (well thats the excuse I am using
but in
> reality I just want to buy them to have around when I need them in the
way far
> off distant future). I wish my body could build as fast as my mind can.
At
> that rate, Id of built three or four planes by now, mistake free of
course.
> One nice thing about building so slow is your airplane building fund can
grow
> into a nice little sum of money. Almost enough to buy 35
turnbuckles..now
> that is depressing.
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
<http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lauritz Larsen" <pietlars(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead/OSH |
Larry,
Happy to hear about your award at Oshkosh and your comments about you
reactions.
Didn't make to Brodhead for the first time in 7 years; it appears thar I
missed a 'good'one. Hopefully next year.
Trying to do the color coat painting but its been, hot , wet and humid.
Went over to see Bud Roger's "A" ; he has it in his prototype SE-5
fuselage. I was impressed, he had it turning a 76 x 42 prop at over 2500
RPM. I think the dual Solex carbs and the modified cam are adding to the
performance significantly. He has a dual ignition which is currently
using two coils and a Mazda 8 wire distributer.
What kind of a mag are using in your A ?
Regards,
Lou
----- Original Message -----
From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead/OSH
>
> Thanks to all for the kind words. I don't know how or when EAA plans on
telling me that I won something but Skip sure is all over the web wringing
things out that are of interest to us all. Thanks, Skip.
>
> Brodhead was great but if I NEVER fly into Oshkosh again it'll be too
soon. Maybe when a little time goes by and I can see things more
objectively, I'll change my attitude. I made it there and back safely and I
can forever proclaim that I flew the airplane I built to the "Big One". Give
me Brodhead any day!
>
> It was great to have Bill Rewey, Chuck Gantzer and Jim Markle to hang
around with at OSH. Sort of a support group of familiar faces. It was good
to get to know each of you a little better. Another listee who helped was Cy
Galley by virtue of being in charge of the maintenance compound that my
airplane used for a couple of hours.
>
> The "A" never skipped a beat in all the 21 hours of time it took to go
there and back. I recorded 70 gallons of fuel burned. No worries!!! Gotta
love it!
>
> After two weeks of a barnstormer-like existence, I'm still trying to get
back in synch with my real life (or is it?). I just got back yesterday and
can't seem to get enough of the soft mattress and hot shower.
>
> OK, enough rambling........ everyone should have it so good!
>
> Thanks for the support-
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
Chris,
Don't know if you have the Aircraft Spruce catalog or not , but it has all
that little data, with charts and graphs. If you go onto their site and
follow the links for a free catalog, you get a fresh new one. No strings.
I've gotten more than one and some for all my friends .
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/index.php
matter of fact, the catalog prompt is on this page.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hardware
>
> Can anyone tell me why there are copper Nicopress sleeves and zinc plated
> Nicopress sleeves? Are they for specific applications? If so, what are
they?
> I think I heard about stainless steel cable needing a different type of
sleeve.
> Is this what the zinc ones are for?
> Some where (I think it was in AC43-13) I also read a vague reference that
left
> me thinking certain sizes of Nicopress sleeves do not use/need the 3
compressed
> sections. Is this true?
>
> Also what type of bolt/pin do you use in shackles (AN115-21) and the fork
end
> (AN161) of a turnbuckle. Are there special pins or do you just use a
bolt? Do
> shackles come with a pin/bolt or do I have to order them separately?
>
> Figure I would bite the bullet and buy the stuff now, even though I dont
need
> it. I doubt that in the future the prices will be going down so it makes
sound
> financial sense to buy now not later (well thats the excuse I am using but
in
> reality I just want to buy them to have around when I need them in the way
far
> off distant future). I wish my body could build as fast as my mind can.
At
> that rate, Id of built three or four planes by now, mistake free of
course.
> One nice thing about building so slow is your airplane building fund can
grow
> into a nice little sum of money. Almost enough to buy 35
turnbuckles..now
> that is depressing.
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | welding broken powder coated parts |
Learned something I don't like about powder coated parts. I repaired a
part from a lawn mower for a friend the other day by welding it where it
had broken in two pieces. Normally, I just bead blast around the area to
be welded and the paint comes right off. Not this time. The part was
powder coated and I had to grind, wire wheel, file, and curse the coating
off. When I did try to TIG weld it, I had to file the paint off so the
part would make the 'circuit' ground to the vise ! The toxic fumes
generated from the adjacent powder coating smelled like it could kill you
in a few tries----luckily the ventilation was good tho. It was no
fun. I'll stick to regular paint I think unless I am really certain that
a part won't ever have to see a repair.
Mike C.
PS--- otherwise.........powder coatings are really a neat thing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net> |
There is been recent discussion about not brazing 4130. This brings up some
more questions. How about cutting? Is a plazma cutter acceptable?
How about milling? Should 4130 be annealed after being worked? Is there a
book related to aircraft metal working practices available. Sorry for asking
such simplistic questions but you gotta start somewhere.
Thanks,
Bob B. - Missouri
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cutting 4130 |
I would think the next best thing to lasercutting would be plasma cutting.
There has been discussion before about filing the hardened edge created after lasercutting
as it is prone to cracking and I would assume the same would be done
for plasma cutting.
I also hear it's a good idea to re-normalize the parts after cutting. As I recall
that is done by baking them at 500 degrees for 24 hours.
DJ Vegh
----- Original Message -----
From: baileys
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 9:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cutting 4130
There is been recent discussion about not brazing 4130. This brings up some
more questions. How about cutting? Is a plazma cutter acceptable?
How about milling? Should 4130 be annealed after being worked? Is there a
book related to aircraft metal working practices available. Sorry for asking
such simplistic questions but you gotta start somewhere.
Thanks,
Bob B. - Missouri
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
Walt,
I do have their catalog it's a great source of information. In fact, I
have one at home and one at work because you never know when you will need to
look something up. The reason I ask is, the catalog says clevis pins "are
used with clevis forks and in secondary controls which are not subject to
continuous operation". I don't have any idea what clevis forks are used for and
as I see it all controls on a Piet are primary, well that is unless you have
hook for towing gliders like John Dilatush's Subaru powered Pietenpol. I'm
finding deciding on what hardware to use to be one of the more perplexing
things about building.
Thanks to all who have responded. I guess I will use clevis pins with a washer
and cotter pin.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
Quoting w b evans :
>
> Chris,
> Don't know if you have the Aircraft Spruce catalog or not , but it has all
> that little data, with charts and graphs. If you go onto their site and
> follow the links for a free catalog, you get a fresh new one. No strings.
> I've gotten more than one and some for all my friends .
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/index.php
> matter of fact, the catalog prompt is on this page.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hardware
>
>
> >
> > Can anyone tell me why there are copper Nicopress sleeves and zinc plated
> > Nicopress sleeves? Are they for specific applications? If so, what are
> they?
> > I think I heard about stainless steel cable needing a different type of
> sleeve.
> > Is this what the zinc ones are for?
> > Some where (I think it was in AC43-13) I also read a vague reference that
> left
> > me thinking certain sizes of Nicopress sleeves do not use/need the 3
> compressed
> > sections. Is this true?
> >
> > Also what type of bolt/pin do you use in shackles (AN115-21) and the fork
> end
> > (AN161) of a turnbuckle. Are there special pins or do you just use a
> bolt? Do
> > shackles come with a pin/bolt or do I have to order them separately?
> >
> > Figure I would bite the bullet and buy the stuff now, even though I dont
> need
> > it. I doubt that in the future the prices will be going down so it makes
> sound
> > financial sense to buy now not later (well thats the excuse I am using but
> in
> > reality I just want to buy them to have around when I need them in the way
> far
> > off distant future). I wish my body could build as fast as my mind can.
> At
> > that rate, Id of built three or four planes by now, mistake free of
> course.
> > One nice thing about building so slow is your airplane building fund can
> grow
> > into a nice little sum of money. Almost enough to buy 35
> turnbuckles..now
> > that is depressing.
> >
> > Chris
> > Sacramento, CA
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
Chris (SMF),
If you are using the shackles in the primary controls, then it is
appropriate to use a clevis bolt and a castelated shear nut with cotter key.
Clevis bolts are AN 23 to 27
Shear Nut AN 320
Ok to use clevis pins AN 392 to 396 for your bracing cables in the wings and
for the LG etc.
Chris Bobka
A & P IA
----- Original Message -----
From: <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hardware
>
> Walt,
>
> I do have their catalog it's a great source of information. In fact, I
> have one at home and one at work because you never know when you will need
to
> look something up. The reason I ask is, the catalog says clevis pins "are
> used with clevis forks and in secondary controls which are not subject to
> continuous operation". I don't have any idea what clevis forks are used
for and
> as I see it all controls on a Piet are primary, well that is unless you
have
> hook for towing gliders like John Dilatush's Subaru powered Pietenpol. I'm
> finding deciding on what hardware to use to be one of the more perplexing
> things about building.
>
> Thanks to all who have responded. I guess I will use clevis pins with a
washer
> and cotter pin.
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
> Quoting w b evans :
>
> >
> > Chris,
> > Don't know if you have the Aircraft Spruce catalog or not , but it has
all
> > that little data, with charts and graphs. If you go onto their site and
> > follow the links for a free catalog, you get a fresh new one. No
strings.
> > I've gotten more than one and some for all my friends .
> > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/index.php
> > matter of fact, the catalog prompt is on this page.
> > walt evans
> > NX140DL
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hardware
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Can anyone tell me why there are copper Nicopress sleeves and zinc
plated
> > > Nicopress sleeves? Are they for specific applications? If so, what
are
> > they?
> > > I think I heard about stainless steel cable needing a different type
of
> > sleeve.
> > > Is this what the zinc ones are for?
> > > Some where (I think it was in AC43-13) I also read a vague reference
that
> > left
> > > me thinking certain sizes of Nicopress sleeves do not use/need the 3
> > compressed
> > > sections. Is this true?
> > >
> > > Also what type of bolt/pin do you use in shackles (AN115-21) and the
fork
> > end
> > > (AN161) of a turnbuckle. Are there special pins or do you just use a
> > bolt? Do
> > > shackles come with a pin/bolt or do I have to order them separately?
> > >
> > > Figure I would bite the bullet and buy the stuff now, even though I
dont
> > need
> > > it. I doubt that in the future the prices will be going down so it
makes
> > sound
> > > financial sense to buy now not later (well thats the excuse I am using
but
> > in
> > > reality I just want to buy them to have around when I need them in the
way
> > far
> > > off distant future). I wish my body could build as fast as my mind
can.
> > At
> > > that rate, Id of built three or four planes by now, mistake free of
> > course.
> > > One nice thing about building so slow is your airplane building fund
can
> > grow
> > > into a nice little sum of money. Almost enough to buy 35
> > turnbuckles..now
> > > that is depressing.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > > Sacramento, CA
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dpilot <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cutting 4130 |
Whats wrong with a hacksaw and 1020 steel?
JimV.
DJ Vegh wrote:
I would think the next best thing to lasercutting would be plasma cutting.
There has been discussion before about filing the hardened edge created after lasercutting
as it is prone to cracking and I would assume the same would be done
for plasma cutting.
I also hear it's a good idea to re-normalize the parts after cutting. As I recall
that is done by baking them at 500 degrees for 24 hours.
DJ Vegh
----- Original Message -----
From: baileys
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cutting 4130
There is been recent discussion about not brazing 4130. This brings up some
more questions. How about cutting? Is a plazma cutter acceptable?
How about milling? Should 4130 be annealed after being worked? Is there a
book related to aircraft metal working practices available. Sorry for asking
such simplistic questions but you gotta start somewhere.
Thanks,
Bob B. - Missouri
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cutting 4130 |
Those joint-jigger things just use a hole saw. I've also seen people mill
it, but they had a mill and not the joint-jigger.
AC 43.13 "Acceptable Methods, Techniques and Practices" has sections about
working with tubing, but also a bunch of other stuff you'll be using
building a Piet. You can learn about acceptable joints there. This should
be required reading for any airplane builder.
Speaking of, AC 43.13 is the successor to the CAM 18, which was the book
under the CAA. Does anybody know where I can get a copy?
Jim Ash
>
>There is been recent discussion about not brazing 4130. This brings up some
>more questions. How about cutting? Is a plazma cutter acceptable?
>How about milling? Should 4130 be annealed after being worked? Is there a
>book related to aircraft metal working practices available. Sorry for asking
>such simplistic questions but you gotta start somewhere.
>Thanks,
>Bob B. - Missouri
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | welding broken powder coated parts |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I've had his problem as well and debate with myself every time it comes
to coating steel. Recently I've been painting with epoxy primer. On
the powder coated stuff, sandblasting as you know will take a long time
to dissipate the powder coat. The times I have done it I burn the
powder coat off with my welding torch and then sand blast the remaining
scale off. I avoid this when I can.....
Steve e.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: welding broken powder coated parts
Learned something I don't like about powder coated parts. I repaired a
part from a lawn mower for a friend the other day by welding it where it
had broken in two pieces. Normally, I just bead blast around the area
to
be welded and the paint comes right off. Not this time. The part was
powder coated and I had to grind, wire wheel, file, and curse the
coating
off. When I did try to TIG weld it, I had to file the paint off so the
part would make the 'circuit' ground to the vise ! The toxic fumes
generated from the adjacent powder coating smelled like it could kill
you
in a few tries----luckily the ventilation was good tho. It was no
fun. I'll stick to regular paint I think unless I am really certain
that
a part won't ever have to see a repair.
Mike C.
PS--- otherwise.........powder coatings are really a neat thing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cutting 4130 |
I have cut all my fittings out, so far, by hand with a hack saw. It really
isn't that hard and it is not as slow as you would think. I just cut outside
the
line grind on a grinder then sand on my belt sander to the line. Follow up
with some 200 grit sand paper to take out the scratches. You do need to watch
out for over heating the steel while you are grinding.
As long as the part was designed for 1020 steel nothing wrong with it either.
I use 4130 because it was the only stuff I could get at the time. I gas weld
the 4130 as well but I sure wish I had a fancy TIG welder some times.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
Quoting dpilot :
>
> Whats wrong with a hacksaw and 1020 steel?
> JimV.
>
> DJ Vegh wrote:
>
> I would think the next best thing to lasercutting would be plasma cutting.
>
> There has been discussion before about filing the hardened edge created after
> lasercutting as it is prone to cracking and I would assume the same would be
> done for plasma cutting.
>
> I also hear it's a good idea to re-normalize the parts after cutting. As I
> recall that is done by baking them at 500 degrees for 24 hours.
>
> DJ Vegh
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: baileys
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: cutting 4130
>
>
>
> There is been recent discussion about not brazing 4130. This brings up some
> more questions. How about cutting? Is a plazma cutter acceptable?
> How about milling? Should 4130 be annealed after being worked? Is there a
> book related to aircraft metal working practices available. Sorry for asking
> such simplistic questions but you gotta start somewhere.
> Thanks,
> Bob B. - Missouri
>
>
> > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
> Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
> information on an anti-virus email solution, visit .
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brants" <tmbrant(at)usfamily.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cutting 4130 |
I've used a simple plumbers tubing cutter - gotta have a good one though.
This takes a bit more effort than cutting copper and you might go through a
few cutting wheels but it's a cheap and easy way to make straight cuts. A
motorized unit is better yet but spendy.
Tom B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cutting 4130
>
> There is been recent discussion about not brazing 4130. This brings up
some
> more questions. How about cutting? Is a plazma cutter acceptable?
> How about milling? Should 4130 be annealed after being worked? Is there
a
> book related to aircraft metal working practices available. Sorry for
asking
> such simplistic questions but you gotta start somewhere.
> Thanks,
> Bob B. - Missouri
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: welding broken powder coated parts |
In a message dated 8/8/2003 7:18:40 AM Central Standard Time,
Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes:
> I had to grind, wire wheel, file, and curse the coating
> off. When I did try to TIG weld it, I had to file the paint off so the
> part would make the 'circuit' ground to the vise ! The toxic fumes
> generated from the adjacent powder coating smelled like it could kill you
Mike...How about I send you a few of our local squirrels. They think the
powder coating on my patio furniture is absolutely delicious and have taken it
right down to bare metal !!! Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Movie--"Red Betsy" |
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
My wife and I went to see "Seabisquit" tonight (I know I should be
working on my Piet instead of going to movies.) When the previews
started for the coming attractions, the screen was suddenly filled with a
beautiful red Model A powered Pietenpol flying in a very blue sky. It
looked like Allen Rudolph's (I don't know who the present owner is.) The
movie is "Red Betsy" and the Piet obviously has the title role. Does
anyone know who's Piet is in this movie? As I am writing this I am
downloading the trailer to see if I can find out anything else about the
movie and/or plane.
Dick Hartwig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cutting 4130 |
Bob B.
If you do not have Richard Finch's book on welding, I highly recommend it.
He was a welding inspector at atomic plants
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cutting 4130
>
> There is been recent discussion about not brazing 4130. This brings up
some
> more questions. How about cutting? Is a plazma cutter acceptable?
> How about milling? Should 4130 be annealed after being worked? Is there
a
> book related to aircraft metal working practices available. Sorry for
asking
> such simplistic questions but you gotta start somewhere.
> Thanks,
> Bob B. - Missouri
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Pacific Scientific T5 cable tensiometer |
They are not available any more as I understand. I have attached the
instruction sheet which I transcribed from the factory original.
Calibration is done by hanging a known weight on a cable and measuring to
see if the gage reads right. In the lid of the box is the conversion table.
I can scan and get a copy to you if you need.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pacific Scientific T5 cable tensiometer
>
> I picked up a used Pacific Scientific cable tensiometer on ebay for $100.
> These gor for like $800 new. It did not come with risers.
>
> I've never used one before and am wondering what number risers are used
for
> which size of cable.
>
> Also where can I send it for calibration and where would I buy the risers
> for it?
>
> Anyone have one of these?
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
Dick,
I just did a google search on redbetsy and the second item is the red betsy website.
It does appear to be Allen Rudolph's Piet and the move is shot in WI and
is about a family in Boscobel in the forties. It was shot in some town between
madison and Milwaukee. We will see...
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pacific Scientific T5 cable tensiometer |
actually..... they are now being produced by a company called
Optimanufacuring.
their site is
http://optimanufacturing.com/
they service and sell them.... I'll be sending mine in to them in a few
weeks.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pacific Scientific T5 cable tensiometer
>
> They are not available any more as I understand. I have attached the
> instruction sheet which I transcribed from the factory original.
> Calibration is done by hanging a known weight on a cable and measuring to
> see if the gage reads right. In the lid of the box is the conversion
table.
> I can scan and get a copy to you if you need.
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>
> Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pacific Scientific T5 cable tensiometer
>
>
> >
> > I picked up a used Pacific Scientific cable tensiometer on ebay for
$100.
> > These gor for like $800 new. It did not come with risers.
> >
> > I've never used one before and am wondering what number risers are used
> for
> > which size of cable.
> >
> > Also where can I send it for calibration and where would I buy the
risers
> > for it?
> >
> > Anyone have one of these?
> >
> > DJ Vegh
> > N74DV
> > Mesa, AZ
> > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> >
> >
> > -
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cutting 4130 |
Richard Finch was a welding inspector? Where'd you see that?
Jim Ash
>
>Bob B.
>If you do not have Richard Finch's book on welding, I highly recommend it.
>He was a welding inspector at atomic plants
>Alex Sloan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dpilot <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
The airplane is now owned by Jim Hammond, from Yellow Springs, Ohio.
Jim (and friends ) completely rebuilt it and it is in beautiful condition now.
It blew a head gasket and is waiting for some attention now.
Jim finished his Aeronca C-3 and flew it to Brodhead.
JimV.
Christian Bobka wrote:
Dick,
I just did a google search on redbetsy and the second item is the red betsy website.
It does appear to be Allen Rudolph's Piet and the move is shot in WI and
is about a family in Boscobel in the forties. It was shot in some town between
madison and Milwaukee. We will see...
Chris
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cutting 4130 |
Alex,
I found two books by Finch, is Performance Welding the one you are referring
to?
Thanks,
Bob B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cutting 4130
>
> Bob B.
> If you do not have Richard Finch's book on welding, I highly recommend it.
> He was a welding inspector at atomic plants
> Alex Sloan
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: cutting 4130
>
>
> >
> > There is been recent discussion about not brazing 4130. This brings up
> some
> > more questions. How about cutting? Is a plazma cutter acceptable?
> > How about milling? Should 4130 be annealed after being worked? Is
there
> a
> > book related to aircraft metal working practices available. Sorry for
> asking
> > such simplistic questions but you gotta start somewhere.
> > Thanks,
> > Bob B. - Missouri
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cutting 4130 |
Jim,
I read that in his welding book.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cutting 4130
>
> Richard Finch was a welding inspector? Where'd you see that?
>
> Jim Ash
>
> >
> >Bob B.
> >If you do not have Richard Finch's book on welding, I highly recommend
it.
> >He was a welding inspector at atomic plants
> >Alex Sloan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cutting 4130 |
Bob B..
The Richard Finch book I have is the completely revised and updated Welders
Handbook. A complete guide to mig, tig, arc & oxyacetylene welding.
Revised edition 1997.
I bought it at Lowe's.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cutting 4130
>
> Alex,
> I found two books by Finch, is Performance Welding the one you are
referring
> to?
> Thanks,
> Bob B.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cutting 4130
>
>
> >
> > Bob B.
> > If you do not have Richard Finch's book on welding, I highly recommend
it.
> > He was a welding inspector at atomic plants
> > Alex Sloan
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: cutting 4130
> >
> >
> > >
> > > There is been recent discussion about not brazing 4130. This brings up
> > some
> > > more questions. How about cutting? Is a plazma cutter acceptable?
> > > How about milling? Should 4130 be annealed after being worked? Is
> there
> > a
> > > book related to aircraft metal working practices available. Sorry for
> > asking
> > > such simplistic questions but you gotta start somewhere.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Bob B. - Missouri
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Movie - "Red Betsy" |
Dick Hartwig -
I, too, went to the movie "Seabiscuit" last night, and saw the trailer
about "Red Betsy." I must admit I did not catch the date the movie will
be shown, but when I saw a Piet in the background, I was excited. Then,
there was a shot of the "Red Betsy" climbing out into the sky! Ford powered!
I'm not a big movie fan, but did want to see "Seabiscuit." My kind of
movie, and I don't even like horses.
Now, I'll be on the lookout for "Red Betsy." Oh oh. The public may find
out our secret and the sky will be filled with all those damned Piets!
I have not seen "Red Betsy" but I'll bet a 152 or a Champ could not carry
the movie. Only the Piet would have such charisma!
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cutting 4130 |
In a message dated 8/9/03 9:31:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
alexms1(at)bellsouth.net writes:
<< The Richard Finch book I have is the completely revised and updated Welders
Handbook. A complete guide to mig, tig, arc & oxyacetylene welding.
Revised edition 1997. >>
I also have this book, and highly recomend it for anyone doing any type of
welding.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Movie - "Red Betsy" |
Check out:
http://www.redbetsy.com/start.html
Lots of background on the movie but nothing on the specifics of the
airplane.
Airplane shots were filmed at a private strip in Oconomowoc, WI.
Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc Mosher" <docshop(at)tds.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Movie - "Red Betsy"
>
> Dick Hartwig -
>
> I, too, went to the movie "Seabiscuit" last night, and saw the trailer
> about "Red Betsy." I must admit I did not catch the date the movie will
> be shown, but when I saw a Piet in the background, I was excited. Then,
> there was a shot of the "Red Betsy" climbing out into the sky! Ford
powered!
>
> I'm not a big movie fan, but did want to see "Seabiscuit." My kind of
> movie, and I don't even like horses.
>
> Now, I'll be on the lookout for "Red Betsy." Oh oh. The public may find
> out our secret and the sky will be filled with all those damned Piets!
>
> I have not seen "Red Betsy" but I'll bet a 152 or a Champ could not carry
> the movie. Only the Piet would have such charisma!
>
> Doc Mosher
> Oshkosh USA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
Forget the movie!!!
The poster has a guy and a girl kissing, pretty disgusting for a Piet movie. Those
Hollywood types screw everything up with all their love scenes. What's wrong
with two hours of Pietenpols???
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Michael D. Cuy ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Michael D. Cuy
Subject: 2003 Pietenpol Fly-In Pics from Brodhead, Wisconsin
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov.08.10.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | B&B Turnbuckle price |
Just got off the phone with B&B Supply (913-884-5930). Their current price for
a AN130-16S turnbuckle is $8.95 each. He also has a bunch turnbuckle
assemblies made up of AN155-16L an AN161 short and an AN170 short for $8.95 as
well. Unfortunately they do not have any AN115-22 shackles. These prices are
way under Aircraft Spruce, Wicks and a bunch of other places I tried.
Chris
Sacramento CA
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
"pietenpol" ,
"tailwind"
| Subject: | looking for Larry West near Spokane WA |
Somebody on the list told me they new Larry West from Spokane WA of nearby. I
am trying to get a holt of him.
chris bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: looking for Larry West near Spokane WA |
Well, it wasn't me......but......
A search in landings.com returns the following (Tumtum is just NE of
Spokane):
WEST, LARRY LEE
5742A CORKSCREW CANYON RD
TUMTUM, WA, 99034-9716
ww.411.com: (509)258-6896
Here's an email address that might work:
tailskidwest(at)peoplepc.com
Jim in Plano
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
; "tailwind"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: looking for Larry West near Spokane WA
>
> Somebody on the list told me they new Larry West from Spokane WA of
nearby. I am trying to get a holt of him.
>
> chris bobka
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: B&B Turnbuckle price |
B&B has the best prices on turnbuckles I've found.
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Interesting 1969 Model Mag article..... |
I found this Pietenpol article, written by Pete Bowers, in a 1969 issue of
American Aircraft Modeler.
These pictues will be too small to read but you'll get the idea.
I haven't had time to really read everything but I noticed, on the plans, a
teeny tiny mistake on the wing chord dimension (if you call 13' a teeny tiny
error)......oops....
If you would like copies of what I scanned (MORE than enough to read on the
computer display or print out), email me directly and I'll send the files
(they zipped into 2.6MB file).
Pretty interesting reading about a design that's been "offered to the
amateur"...."For 40 years". Yes, I know, but this article was written in
1969!!! :-)
Jim in Plano
>
> To view Jim Markle's pictures at Shutterfly,
> simply go to:
>
> <http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b32a13a4a475>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article..... |
Jim
Send me the Zip on the Bowers articles.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article.....
>
> I found this Pietenpol article, written by Pete Bowers, in a 1969 issue of
> American Aircraft Modeler.
>
> These pictues will be too small to read but you'll get the idea.
>
> I haven't had time to really read everything but I noticed, on the plans,
a
> teeny tiny mistake on the wing chord dimension (if you call 13' a teeny
tiny
> error)......oops....
>
> If you would like copies of what I scanned (MORE than enough to read on
the
> computer display or print out), email me directly and I'll send the files
> (they zipped into 2.6MB file).
>
> Pretty interesting reading about a design that's been "offered to the
> amateur"...."For 40 years". Yes, I know, but this article was written in
> 1969!!! :-)
>
> Jim in Plano
>
>
> >
> > To view Jim Markle's pictures at Shutterfly,
> > simply go to:
> >
> > <http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b32a13a4a475>
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article..... |
Here you go....
jm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article.....
>
> Jim
>
> Send me the Zip on the Bowers articles.
>
> Chris Bobka
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article.....
>
>
>
> >
> > I found this Pietenpol article, written by Pete Bowers, in a 1969 issue
of
> > American Aircraft Modeler.
> >
> > These pictues will be too small to read but you'll get the idea.
> >
> > I haven't had time to really read everything but I noticed, on the
plans,
> a
> > teeny tiny mistake on the wing chord dimension (if you call 13' a teeny
> tiny
> > error)......oops....
> >
> > If you would like copies of what I scanned (MORE than enough to read on
> the
> > computer display or print out), email me directly and I'll send the
files
> > (they zipped into 2.6MB file).
> >
> > Pretty interesting reading about a design that's been "offered to the
> > amateur"...."For 40 years". Yes, I know, but this article was written
in
> > 1969!!! :-)
> >
> > Jim in Plano
> >
> >
> > >
> > > To view Jim Markle's pictures at Shutterfly,
> > > simply go to:
> > >
> > > <http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b32a13a4a475>
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article..... |
Here you go....
jm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article.....
>
> Jim
>
> Send me the Zip on the Bowers articles.
>
> Chris Bobka
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article.....
>
>
>
> >
> > I found this Pietenpol article, written by Pete Bowers, in a 1969 issue
of
> > American Aircraft Modeler.
> >
> > These pictues will be too small to read but you'll get the idea.
> >
> > I haven't had time to really read everything but I noticed, on the
plans,
> a
> > teeny tiny mistake on the wing chord dimension (if you call 13' a teeny
> tiny
> > error)......oops....
> >
> > If you would like copies of what I scanned (MORE than enough to read on
> the
> > computer display or print out), email me directly and I'll send the
files
> > (they zipped into 2.6MB file).
> >
> > Pretty interesting reading about a design that's been "offered to the
> > amateur"...."For 40 years". Yes, I know, but this article was written
in
> > 1969!!! :-)
> >
> > Jim in Plano
> >
> >
> > >
> > > To view Jim Markle's pictures at Shutterfly,
> > > simply go to:
> > >
> > > <http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b32a13a4a475>
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article..... |
Here you go....
jm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article.....
>
> Jim
>
> Send me the Zip on the Bowers articles.
>
> Chris Bobka
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article.....
>
>
>
> >
> > I found this Pietenpol article, written by Pete Bowers, in a 1969 issue
of
> > American Aircraft Modeler.
> >
> > These pictues will be too small to read but you'll get the idea.
> >
> > I haven't had time to really read everything but I noticed, on the
plans,
> a
> > teeny tiny mistake on the wing chord dimension (if you call 13' a teeny
> tiny
> > error)......oops....
> >
> > If you would like copies of what I scanned (MORE than enough to read on
> the
> > computer display or print out), email me directly and I'll send the
files
> > (they zipped into 2.6MB file).
> >
> > Pretty interesting reading about a design that's been "offered to the
> > amateur"...."For 40 years". Yes, I know, but this article was written
in
> > 1969!!! :-)
> >
> > Jim in Plano
> >
> >
> > >
> > > To view Jim Markle's pictures at Shutterfly,
> > > simply go to:
> > >
> > > <http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b32a13a4a475>
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article..... |
Oops, sorry to send this to the list......
jm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article.....
>
>
> Here you go....
>
> jm
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article.....
>
>
>
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Send me the Zip on the Bowers articles.
> >
> > Chris Bobka
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article.....
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I found this Pietenpol article, written by Pete Bowers, in a 1969
issue
> of
> > > American Aircraft Modeler.
> > >
> > > These pictues will be too small to read but you'll get the idea.
> > >
> > > I haven't had time to really read everything but I noticed, on the
> plans,
> > a
> > > teeny tiny mistake on the wing chord dimension (if you call 13' a
teeny
> > tiny
> > > error)......oops....
> > >
> > > If you would like copies of what I scanned (MORE than enough to read
on
> > the
> > > computer display or print out), email me directly and I'll send the
> files
> > > (they zipped into 2.6MB file).
> > >
> > > Pretty interesting reading about a design that's been "offered to the
> > > amateur"...."For 40 years". Yes, I know, but this article was written
> in
> > > 1969!!! :-)
> > >
> > > Jim in Plano
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > To view Jim Markle's pictures at Shutterfly,
> > > > simply go to:
> > > >
> > > > <http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b32a13a4a475>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article..... |
Hi Jim
i would like to have the files to...
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article..... |
Here you go....
jm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article.....
>
> Jim
>
> Send me the Zip on the Bowers articles.
>
> Chris Bobka
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article.....
>
>
>
> >
> > I found this Pietenpol article, written by Pete Bowers, in a 1969 issue
of
> > American Aircraft Modeler.
> >
> > These pictues will be too small to read but you'll get the idea.
> >
> > I haven't had time to really read everything but I noticed, on the
plans,
> a
> > teeny tiny mistake on the wing chord dimension (if you call 13' a teeny
> tiny
> > error)......oops....
> >
> > If you would like copies of what I scanned (MORE than enough to read on
> the
> > computer display or print out), email me directly and I'll send the
files
> > (they zipped into 2.6MB file).
> >
> > Pretty interesting reading about a design that's been "offered to the
> > amateur"...."For 40 years". Yes, I know, but this article was written
in
> > 1969!!! :-)
> >
> > Jim in Plano
> >
> >
> > >
> > > To view Jim Markle's pictures at Shutterfly,
> > > simply go to:
> > >
> > > <http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b32a13a4a475>
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article..... |
Oops, sorry to send this to the list......
jm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article.....
>
>
> Here you go....
>
> jm
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article.....
>
>
>
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Send me the Zip on the Bowers articles.
> >
> > Chris Bobka
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article.....
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I found this Pietenpol article, written by Pete Bowers, in a 1969
issue
> of
> > > American Aircraft Modeler.
> > >
> > > These pictues will be too small to read but you'll get the idea.
> > >
> > > I haven't had time to really read everything but I noticed, on the
> plans,
> > a
> > > teeny tiny mistake on the wing chord dimension (if you call 13' a
teeny
> > tiny
> > > error)......oops....
> > >
> > > If you would like copies of what I scanned (MORE than enough to read
on
> > the
> > > computer display or print out), email me directly and I'll send the
> files
> > > (they zipped into 2.6MB file).
> > >
> > > Pretty interesting reading about a design that's been "offered to the
> > > amateur"...."For 40 years". Yes, I know, but this article was written
> in
> > > 1969!!! :-)
> > >
> > > Jim in Plano
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > To view Jim Markle's pictures at Shutterfly,
> > > > simply go to:
> > > >
> > > > <http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b32a13a4a475>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article..... |
Here you go....
jm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article.....
>
> Jim
>
> Send me the Zip on the Bowers articles.
>
> Chris Bobka
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interesting 1969 Model Mag article.....
>
>
>
> >
> > I found this Pietenpol article, written by Pete Bowers, in a 1969 issue
of
> > American Aircraft Modeler.
> >
> > These pictues will be too small to read but you'll get the idea.
> >
> > I haven't had time to really read everything but I noticed, on the
plans,
> a
> > teeny tiny mistake on the wing chord dimension (if you call 13' a teeny
> tiny
> > error)......oops....
> >
> > If you would like copies of what I scanned (MORE than enough to read on
> the
> > computer display or print out), email me directly and I'll send the
files
> > (they zipped into 2.6MB file).
> >
> > Pretty interesting reading about a design that's been "offered to the
> > amateur"...."For 40 years". Yes, I know, but this article was written
in
> > 1969!!! :-)
> >
> > Jim in Plano
> >
> >
> > >
> > > To view Jim Markle's pictures at Shutterfly,
> > > simply go to:
> > >
> > > <http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b32a13a4a475>
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | I didn't mean to do that.... |
but I figured out what happened...to cause all those messages to get sent to
the list over and over, etc....
But hey, anyone who knows me would expect nothing less than a HUGE
goof......
My apologies to everyone on the list....
Jim in (hmmm, maybe I better not say....)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wheels, brakes and tires |
Anyone out there tried anything with Azusa Engineering Wheels? Im trying to
build a light-weight Piet, So I got their catalog and ordered tires, wheels
and brakes. It seems that it would be possible to save about 30 pounds. So I
ordered the nylon-filled wheels, (6), 5.00 x 6 tires(4-ply rated), and brake
drums and the contracting brake bands. The external band brakes do not need
backing plates and are easy to adapt to the vees.
The tires are a little larger than those my friend has on his Sonex, which u
ses the Azusa aluminum wheels on 3/4 axles, and this rig is OK on the Sonex,
which is a little bit heavier and a lot faster than the Piet. So I figured my
rig would be ok for my Piet.
My tires are marked not for highway use. This is ok by me, I hope that I
wont be landing on many highways. But it also says 40 # maximum pressure.
This bothers me, as the Sonexs use about 70#.
And the lovely molded wheels say 20# maximum tire pressure. This bothers me!
My friends here say that the gear should be designed to take the maximum
load on one wheel. Any comments?
Carl @ Compton Airport
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flying Stories - Tail skids & hard surface |
I just gotta share some of my flying stories with y'all (most of them are
true), as well as some of the lessons I've learned.
Flying a 'Low & Slow' airplane cross country is absolutely the best way
to see this beautiful country we live in, and meet so many people...it's a real
attention getter at the FBO's. Don't tell me this ain't no cross country
airplane, cause I don't wanna hear about it. On the return trip, someone asked
"Well, how many hours did it take to get there ?" I replied "When you fly a
Pietenpol on a cross country, you don't measure time in hours, you measure it
in days !!" After a good heart felt laugh, they gathered themselves back
together and asked "OK, well how many days did it take you to get there ?" I
replied with a grin "Three !!"
Tail Skids, and hard surface runways:
I have always flown off the grass runways, no brakes, and the tail skid
performs very well on the grass. Simplicity at it's finest, and much less weight
back at the tail. Stick forward, add power, and just rudder it around...no
worries. I got the brakes operational just a week before Brodhead, but didn't
have time to get a tail wheel done. Well, when ya try to land a tail skid on a
hard surface runway, ya really gotta spit your gum out, and pay attention !!
My first one, was on the second leg of my trip. I did four hard surface
landings during my adventure to Brodhead / Oshkosh adventure, and each time I
almost lost it on roll out - maybe 20 or 15 mph down to zero mph. I learned that
any slight breeze will push the tail around, and with the engine at idle - no
prop wash, she just doesn't pay any attention to where the rudder is, and the
tail just goes wherever the wind tells it to. When I left, I thought I could
just use a touch of brake in this situation, and everything would be cool...Big
Mistake...BIG BIG MISTAKE !! Example: When she's headed to the right side
of the edge of the runway, I just lightly stabbed the left brake to keep it on
course down the runway. Well, this got 'er pointed back on course, but it
also brought the tail up upbruptly, and then it did a double bounce back down.
Adding power takes a second or two, for the prop wash to reach the rudder. On
my second hard surface landing, I just let 'er go to the grass off the side
of the runway...I think she was just letting me know she likes it there much
more !! Each time, I had visions of either nosing over, or doing a ground
loop. So...THAT'S why I was the only one there at Brodhead with a tail skid !!
When I landed at Oshkosh in front of all those people, and as I was doing this
dance down the runway, ATC was saying to me "Red high wing, exit runway...as
soon as you can..."
So... the morale of this story, is 'Entertainment is as close as my next
landing'.
Or...'Tail skids, and hard surface runways, just don't mix well'.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Wichita, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Stories - Tail skids & hard surface |
Chuck,
That story is the best post I have seen in weeks!
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying Stories - Tail skids & hard surface
>
> I just gotta share some of my flying stories with y'all (most of them are
> true), as well as some of the lessons I've learned.
> Flying a 'Low & Slow' airplane cross country is absolutely the best
way
> to see this beautiful country we live in, and meet so many people...it's a
real
> attention getter at the FBO's. Don't tell me this ain't no cross country
> airplane, cause I don't wanna hear about it. On the return trip, someone
asked
> "Well, how many hours did it take to get there ?" I replied "When you fly
a
> Pietenpol on a cross country, you don't measure time in hours, you measure
it
> in days !!" After a good heart felt laugh, they gathered themselves back
> together and asked "OK, well how many days did it take you to get there ?"
I
> replied with a grin "Three !!"
> Tail Skids, and hard surface runways:
> I have always flown off the grass runways, no brakes, and the tail skid
> performs very well on the grass. Simplicity at it's finest, and much less
weight
> back at the tail. Stick forward, add power, and just rudder it
around...no
> worries. I got the brakes operational just a week before Brodhead, but
didn't
> have time to get a tail wheel done. Well, when ya try to land a tail skid
on a
> hard surface runway, ya really gotta spit your gum out, and pay attention
!!
> My first one, was on the second leg of my trip. I did four hard surface
> landings during my adventure to Brodhead / Oshkosh adventure, and each
time I
> almost lost it on roll out - maybe 20 or 15 mph down to zero mph. I
learned that
> any slight breeze will push the tail around, and with the engine at idle -
no
> prop wash, she just doesn't pay any attention to where the rudder is, and
the
> tail just goes wherever the wind tells it to. When I left, I thought I
could
> just use a touch of brake in this situation, and everything would be
cool...Big
> Mistake...BIG BIG MISTAKE !! Example: When she's headed to the right
side
> of the edge of the runway, I just lightly stabbed the left brake to keep
it on
> course down the runway. Well, this got 'er pointed back on course, but it
> also brought the tail up upbruptly, and then it did a double bounce back
down.
> Adding power takes a second or two, for the prop wash to reach the rudder.
On
> my second hard surface landing, I just let 'er go to the grass off the
side
> of the runway...I think she was just letting me know she likes it there
much
> more !! Each time, I had visions of either nosing over, or doing a
ground
> loop. So...THAT'S why I was the only one there at Brodhead with a tail
skid !!
> When I landed at Oshkosh in front of all those people, and as I was doing
this
> dance down the runway, ATC was saying to me "Red high wing, exit
runway...as
> soon as you can..."
> So... the morale of this story, is 'Entertainment is as close as my next
> landing'.
> Or...'Tail skids, and hard surface runways, just don't mix well'.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
> Wichita, KS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheels, brakes and tires |
> My tires are marked not for highway use. This is ok
> by me, I hope that I
> wont be landing on many highways. But it also says
> 40 # maximum pressure.
> This bothers me, as the Sonexs use about 70#.
>
> And the lovely molded wheels say 20# maximum tire
> pressure. This bothers me!
> My friends here say that the gear should be
> designed to take the maximum
> load on one wheel. Any comments?
I would take a really good look at the machined
aluminum gocart wheels, they are prettier, stronger,
and lighter. the nylon wheels are not strong enough.
my sonex has 45 lbs in the tire.
=====
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seibert Bob-r18643 <Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com> |
Note: The following is fiction. If it was true, it would require violating the
FAR's... I would never do that.
I don't have an adventure quite like Chuck's to share but I have to share something
that I will probably never be lucky enough to do again.
Last Sunday morning I had about 4 hours on the Yellow Peril and decided to try
a cross country all the way to Georgetown (25 miles!).
Takeoff, climbout and cruise at 500 agl were great. It was cool and calm out and
I had about 75 miles visibility. I was easily distracted from my piloting work
by all the sights below me as I flew over fields, woods and the San Gabriel
river. Beautiful cool blue sky morning. Anyway the first landing on pavement
went great. Of course nobody saw it.
The cruise home at 70 mph was going great and I decided to swing over to Hutto,
Texas and fly from there to Taylor parallel to Highway 79. Its flat, straight
and on the south side there are no persons, buildings or structures for about
6 miles. All there is along there is a road, some parallel train tracks and corn
fields.
Coming up on Hutto and starting my left turn to align with the road I noticed some
unusual movement on the edge of town. It was a train coming out of Hutto eastbound
at high speed. It was the Amtrak passenger train! It was that steel blue
with about a dozen cars and even had some double decker cars.
The little devil on my left shoulder immediately pushed the angel off of my right
shoulder (no chutes required - they have wings). The little devil immediately
gave instructions on the dive and turn. The Red Baron could not have timed
that intercept better!
I actually had to throttle back almost to idle as I slid into formation with the
middle cars on the train. I eased it down to about 10' agl and brought the throttle
back in to about 60 mph. I was pacing the train about 100 yards on his
right hand side. I waved at the people staring out and they started waving back.
Cool! I bumped the power up to 70 mph and started pulling up the length of
the train. We were racing. Cooler! I got up along side the engine and the engineer
blew his horn when I waved. By now I am grinning so much I am afraid of
bug stains on my teeth! All too soon we came up on the first buildings outside
of Taylor so I did a climbing turn out away from the captive airshow crowd and
flew off into the still cool morning sky.
I am still smiling to myself after 2 days.
I don't know who those people were or where they got off of the train but they
all know what a Pietenpol is now and they have another travel story to tell.
Keep sawing, glueing and sweating on those Piets!
Those 4 =BD years of building were fun but they were nothing compared to the desert
you will get at the end!
Bob Seibert
N23TX with 5.5hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying story |
Somebody should write a book "Zen and the Art of Pietenol Flying." 8
)
Bob B. - Missouri
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seibert Bob-r18643" <Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying story
>
> Note: The following is fiction. If it was true, it would require violating
the FAR's... I would never do that.
> I don't have an adventure quite like Chuck's to share but I have to share
something that I will probably never be lucky enough to do again.
>
> Last Sunday morning I had about 4 hours on the Yellow Peril and decided to
try a cross country all the way to Georgetown (25 miles!).
> Takeoff, climbout and cruise at 500 agl were great. It was cool and calm
out and I had about 75 miles visibility. I was easily distracted from my
piloting work by all the sights below me as I flew over fields, woods and
the San Gabriel river. Beautiful cool blue sky morning. Anyway the first
landing on pavement went great. Of course nobody saw it.
>
> The cruise home at 70 mph was going great and I decided to swing over to
Hutto, Texas and fly from there to Taylor parallel to Highway 79. Its flat,
straight and on the south side there are no persons, buildings or structures
for about 6 miles. All there is along there is a road, some parallel train
tracks and corn fields.
>
> Coming up on Hutto and starting my left turn to align with the road I
noticed some unusual movement on the edge of town. It was a train coming out
of Hutto eastbound at high speed. It was the Amtrak passenger train! It was
that steel blue with about a dozen cars and even had some double decker
cars.
>
> The little devil on my left shoulder immediately pushed the angel off of
my right shoulder (no chutes required - they have wings). The little devil
immediately gave instructions on the dive and turn. The Red Baron could not
have timed that intercept better!
>
> I actually had to throttle back almost to idle as I slid into formation
with the middle cars on the train. I eased it down to about 10' agl and
brought the throttle back in to about 60 mph. I was pacing the train about
100 yards on his right hand side. I waved at the people staring out and they
started waving back. Cool! I bumped the power up to 70 mph and started
pulling up the length of the train. We were racing. Cooler! I got up along
side the engine and the engineer blew his horn when I waved. By now I am
grinning so much I am afraid of bug stains on my teeth! All too soon we came
up on the first buildings outside of Taylor so I did a climbing turn out
away from the captive airshow crowd and flew off into the still cool morning
sky.
>
> I am still smiling to myself after 2 days.
> I don't know who those people were or where they got off of the train but
they all know what a Pietenpol is now and they have another travel story to
tell.
>
> Keep sawing, glueing and sweating on those Piets!
> Those 4 =BD years of building were fun but they were nothing compared to
the desert you will get at the end!
>
> Bob Seibert
> N23TX with 5.5hours
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flying story |
Great story...It helps us ground-bound trolls! Thanks....Carl V.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken" <av8or(at)infionline.net> |
Bob, Sounds like a good project for you. You probably could do most of
your research on this list.
Ken
av8or(at)infionline.net
kring(at)mountainviewdogs.com
kring(at)irisweb.net
www.irisweb.net
www.mountainviewdogs.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of baileys
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying story
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying story |
I believe the horizontal and vertical separation issue relates to
structures and/or people on the ground. If you're flying over desert
(or tundra where I learned to fly) you can fly as low as you want as
long as there are no people or structures. The only issue in this
fictional story would be the distance from the train...
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com Tuesday, August 12, 2003 9:18:18 AM >>>
Note: The following is fiction. If it was true, it would require
violating the FAR's... I would never do that.
I don't have an adventure quite like Chuck's to share but I have to
share something that I will probably never be lucky enough to do again.
Last Sunday morning I had about 4 hours on the Yellow Peril and decided
to try a cross country all the way to Georgetown (25 miles!).
Takeoff, climbout and cruise at 500 agl were great. It was cool and
calm out and I had about 75 miles visibility. I was easily distracted
from my piloting work by all the sights below me as I flew over fields,
woods and the San Gabriel river. Beautiful cool blue sky morning. Anyway
the first landing on pavement went great. Of course nobody saw it.
The cruise home at 70 mph was going great and I decided to swing over
to Hutto, Texas and fly from there to Taylor parallel to Highway 79. Its
flat, straight and on the south side there are no persons, buildings or
structures for about 6 miles. All there is along there is a road, some
parallel train tracks and corn fields.
Coming up on Hutto and starting my left turn to align with the road I
noticed some unusual movement on the edge of town. It was a train coming
out of Hutto eastbound at high speed. It was the Amtrak passenger train!
It was that steel blue with about a dozen cars and even had some double
decker cars.
The little devil on my left shoulder immediately pushed the angel off
of my right shoulder (no chutes required - they have wings). The little
devil immediately gave instructions on the dive and turn. The Red Baron
could not have timed that intercept better!
I actually had to throttle back almost to idle as I slid into formation
with the middle cars on the train. I eased it down to about 10' agl and
brought the throttle back in to about 60 mph. I was pacing the train
about 100 yards on his right hand side. I waved at the people staring
out and they started waving back. Cool! I bumped the power up to 70 mph
and started pulling up the length of the train. We were racing. Cooler!
I got up along side the engine and the engineer blew his horn when I
waved. By now I am grinning so much I am afraid of bug stains on my
teeth! All too soon we came up on the first buildings outside of Taylor
so I did a climbing turn out away from the captive airshow crowd and
flew off into the still cool morning sky.
I am still smiling to myself after 2 days.
I don't know who those people were or where they got off of the train
but they all know what a Pietenpol is now and they have another travel
story to tell.
Keep sawing, glueing and sweating on those Piets!
Those 4 =BD years of building were fun but they were nothing compared
to the desert you will get at the end!
Bob Seibert
N23TX with 5.5hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying story |
Ken,
Thanks for the suggestion.
Not until I have my own flying Piet!
Bob B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <av8or(at)infionline.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flying story
>
> Bob, Sounds like a good project for you. You probably could do most of
> your research on this list.
>
> Ken
> av8or(at)infionline.net
> kring(at)mountainviewdogs.com
> kring(at)irisweb.net
>
> www.irisweb.net
> www.mountainviewdogs.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of baileys
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying story
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying story |
Cool story.
I've considered this kind of thing, but haven't had the nerve yet.
I follow certain railroad stuff with a more than passive interest. Three
years ago, my wife and I rode a railfan excursion from Union Station in
Chicago to Galesburg and back, across the prairies of north-western
Illinois. We lived nearby at the time, and it was just a day trip, albeit a
long day. The train is pulled by Milwaukee Road #261, a big mainline 4-8-4
steam locomotive, fully restored and operational. They scrounge up a bunch
of old privately-owned rail cars to pull behind it, including a lounge car
for the high-dollar people on the rear. The whole consist is right out of
the 40's.
Unfortunately, my Cub was in Florida at the time. Now, it's on loan to a
friend in Illinois, maybe 10-15 miles north of that trackage, but I'm in
New Hampshire. As far as I know, they run the 261 excursion out of Chicago
every year. I think it would be one of those lifetime adventures to fly a
period plane in formation with a period train. But I never was comfortable
with the legalities, and flying right next to a trainload of railfans armed
with cameras and camcorders surely would get my tail numbers recorded, so
it would have to be arguably legal. There are plenty of straight stretches
of rail between towns that would not present any risk to those on the ground.
Maybe next year.
Jim
>
>
>Note: The following is fiction. If it was true, it would require violating
>the FAR's... I would never do that.
>I don't have an adventure quite like Chuck's to share but I have to share
>something that I will probably never be lucky enough to do again.
>
>Last Sunday morning I had about 4 hours on the Yellow Peril and decided to
>try a cross country all the way to Georgetown (25 miles!).
>Takeoff, climbout and cruise at 500 agl were great. It was cool and calm
>out and I had about 75 miles visibility. I was easily distracted from my
>piloting work by all the sights below me as I flew over fields, woods and
>the San Gabriel river. Beautiful cool blue sky morning. Anyway the first
>landing on pavement went great. Of course nobody saw it.
>
>The cruise home at 70 mph was going great and I decided to swing over to
>Hutto, Texas and fly from there to Taylor parallel to Highway 79. Its
>flat, straight and on the south side there are no persons, buildings or
>structures for about 6 miles. All there is along there is a road, some
>parallel train tracks and corn fields.
>
>Coming up on Hutto and starting my left turn to align with the road I
>noticed some unusual movement on the edge of town. It was a train coming
>out of Hutto eastbound at high speed. It was the Amtrak passenger train!
>It was that steel blue with about a dozen cars and even had some double
>decker cars.
>
>The little devil on my left shoulder immediately pushed the angel off of
>my right shoulder (no chutes required - they have wings). The little devil
>immediately gave instructions on the dive and turn. The Red Baron could
>not have timed that intercept better!
>
>I actually had to throttle back almost to idle as I slid into formation
>with the middle cars on the train. I eased it down to about 10' agl and
>brought the throttle back in to about 60 mph. I was pacing the train about
>100 yards on his right hand side. I waved at the people staring out and
>they started waving back. Cool! I bumped the power up to 70 mph and
>started pulling up the length of the train. We were racing. Cooler! I got
>up along side the engine and the engineer blew his horn when I waved. By
>now I am grinning so much I am afraid of bug stains on my teeth! All too
>soon we came up on the first buildings outside of Taylor so I did a
>climbing turn out away from the captive airshow crowd and flew off into
>the still cool morning sky.
>
>I am still smiling to myself after 2 days.
>I don't know who those people were or where they got off of the train but
>they all know what a Pietenpol is now and they have another travel story
>to tell.
>
>Keep sawing, glueing and sweating on those Piets!
>Those 4 =BD years of building were fun but they were nothing compared to
>the desert you will get at the end!
>
>Bob Seibert
>N23TX with 5.5hours
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Stories - Tail skids & hard surface |
Bad landings, by necessity, always have an audience.
If you learned something, and nothing got busted, you did good.
Jim
>
>I just gotta share some of my flying stories with y'all (most of them are
>true), as well as some of the lessons I've learned.
> Flying a 'Low & Slow' airplane cross country is absolutely the best way
>to see this beautiful country we live in, and meet so many people...it's a
>real
>attention getter at the FBO's. Don't tell me this ain't no cross country
>airplane, cause I don't wanna hear about it. On the return trip, someone
>asked
>"Well, how many hours did it take to get there ?" I replied "When you fly a
>Pietenpol on a cross country, you don't measure time in hours, you measure it
>in days !!" After a good heart felt laugh, they gathered themselves back
>together and asked "OK, well how many days did it take you to get there
>?" I
>replied with a grin "Three !!"
> Tail Skids, and hard surface runways:
>I have always flown off the grass runways, no brakes, and the tail skid
>performs very well on the grass. Simplicity at it's finest, and much less
>weight
>back at the tail. Stick forward, add power, and just rudder it around...no
>worries. I got the brakes operational just a week before Brodhead, but
>didn't
>have time to get a tail wheel done. Well, when ya try to land a tail skid
>on a
>hard surface runway, ya really gotta spit your gum out, and pay attention !!
>My first one, was on the second leg of my trip. I did four hard surface
>landings during my adventure to Brodhead / Oshkosh adventure, and each time I
>almost lost it on roll out - maybe 20 or 15 mph down to zero mph. I
>learned that
>any slight breeze will push the tail around, and with the engine at idle - no
>prop wash, she just doesn't pay any attention to where the rudder is, and the
>tail just goes wherever the wind tells it to. When I left, I thought I could
>just use a touch of brake in this situation, and everything would be
>cool...Big
>Mistake...BIG BIG MISTAKE !! Example: When she's headed to the right side
>of the edge of the runway, I just lightly stabbed the left brake to keep
>it on
>course down the runway. Well, this got 'er pointed back on course, but it
>also brought the tail up upbruptly, and then it did a double bounce back
>down.
>Adding power takes a second or two, for the prop wash to reach the
>rudder. On
>my second hard surface landing, I just let 'er go to the grass off the side
>of the runway...I think she was just letting me know she likes it there much
>more !! Each time, I had visions of either nosing over, or doing a ground
>loop. So...THAT'S why I was the only one there at Brodhead with a tail
>skid !!
>When I landed at Oshkosh in front of all those people, and as I was doing
>this
>dance down the runway, ATC was saying to me "Red high wing, exit runway...as
>soon as you can..."
>So... the morale of this story, is 'Entertainment is as close as my next
>landing'.
>Or...'Tail skids, and hard surface runways, just don't mix well'.
>
>Chuck Gantzer
>NX770CG
>Wichita, KS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <twinboom(at)msn.com> |
I have a friend who is intrested in buying a flying Piet. He does not have time
to build one, but loves the plane. He came across a Piet for sale on the BPA
site I think it was. Does anyone know anything about this plane. You saved him
from buying a HEAVY piet a few months ago, so I thought I would check for him
to see what you guys thought about this plane. You can reply to me privately,
or straight to him at wegetnoticed(at)yahoo.com . His name is Greg Aumen. Thanks,
Doug Blackburn
P.S. I started tearing down the Corvair engine I picked up a few weeks ago. Very
simple engine to work on. Thanks for any help torwards info for Greg. Thanks!!!....
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
Yucaipa California
www.inlandsloperebels.com
W.W. conversion manual, #3202 www.flycorvair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <twinboom(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Repost:For Sale info |
Hey folks,
I guess if attached the info you needed, I might get a better response eh?
Here you go....
I have a friend who is intrested in buying a flying Piet. He does not have time
to build one, but loves the plane. He came across a Piet for sale on the BPA
site I think it was. Does anyone know anything about this plane. You saved him
from buying a HEAVY piet a few months ago, so I thought I would check for him
to see what you guys thought about this plane. You can reply to me privately,
or straight to him at wegetnoticed(at)yahoo.com . His name is Greg Aumen. Thanks,
Doug Blackburn
P.S. I started tearing down the Corvair engine I picked up a few weeks ago. Very
simple engine to work on. Thanks for any help torwards info for Greg. Thanks!!!....
.
Hey Doug: I found this under piet stuff for sale. This is what it said. It's dated
8/10/03, Grant, I came across your website while searching for a site for
my father to advertise his pietenpol air camper project for sale. please let me
know if you can post this on your website. here's the info on it. N13708, dismantled
pietenpol air camper project, EA 81 Subaru engine 55,000 road miles,
Reductions of canada redrive 1.84 ratio, 68" 3 blade aluminum warp drive prop
with pitch adjuster, exhaust system, fuel pumps, holly 5200 carb,radiator, coil,
alternator, starter, air cleaner, prop hub and spinner, goodyear tires and
wheel parts, hydraulic brakes, engine mount, nose cowl, most side cowl parts,
flight and engine instruments, ELT, sporty's JD200 transceiver, always hangared.
1991 airworthiness cert w/1999 update. documentation and photo's available.
asking $3500.00 contact: Owners Jack M Maki or Fred E Maki Granville, OH 34023
Phone 740-587-2819. Do you know anything about this piet? see ya Greg
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
Yucaipa California
www.inlandsloperebels.com
W.W. conversion manual, #3202 www.flycorvair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Repost:For Sale info |
Doug,
Getting close to needing those instruments?
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <twinboom(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Repost:For Sale info
>
> Hey folks,
> I guess if attached the info you needed, I might get a better response
eh? Here you go....
> I have a friend who is intrested in buying a flying Piet. He does not have
time to build one, but loves the plane. He came across a Piet for sale on
the BPA site I think it was. Does anyone know anything about this plane. You
saved him from buying a HEAVY piet a few months ago, so I thought I would
check for him to see what you guys thought about this plane. You can reply
to me privately, or straight to him at wegetnoticed(at)yahoo.com . His name is
Greg Aumen. Thanks,
>
> Doug Blackburn
>
> P.S. I started tearing down the Corvair engine I picked up a few weeks
ago. Very simple engine to work on. Thanks for any help torwards info for
Greg. Thanks!!!....
> .
> Hey Doug: I found this under piet stuff for sale. This is what it said.
It's dated 8/10/03, Grant, I came across your website while searching for a
site for my father to advertise his pietenpol air camper project for sale.
please let me know if you can post this on your website. here's the info on
it. N13708, dismantled pietenpol air camper project, EA 81 Subaru engine
55,000 road miles, Reductions of canada redrive 1.84 ratio, 68" 3 blade
aluminum warp drive prop with pitch adjuster, exhaust system, fuel pumps,
holly 5200 carb,radiator, coil, alternator, starter, air cleaner, prop hub
and spinner, goodyear tires and wheel parts, hydraulic brakes, engine mount,
nose cowl, most side cowl parts, flight and engine instruments, ELT,
sporty's JD200 transceiver, always hangared. 1991 airworthiness cert w/1999
update. documentation and photo's available. asking $3500.00 contact: Owners
Jack M Maki or Fred E Maki Granville, OH 34023 Phone 740-587-2819. Do you
know anything about th!
> is piet? see ya Greg
>
> Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
> Yucaipa California
> www.inlandsloperebels.com
> W.W. conversion manual, #3202 www.flycorvair.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary M. Colwill" <g.colwill3(at)verizon.net> |
Just got my plans yesterday and have spent every spare moment poring
over them. Of everything I've gleaned in the short time I've had the
plans, there is one one fact that seems to be the most important at the
moment - I need to develop some basic skills!
The EAA website has for sale several books that might help me, like:
Techniques of Aircraft Building
Wood Aircraft Building Techniques
Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook
Can anyone recommend or comment on these books or suggest alternatives?
Thanks,
Gary C.
Chino, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Basic Skills |
Gary,
I recommend that you go hunting on the FAA.gov website and download a copy of
advisory circular AC 43.13-1B. Its the best reference for acceptable
methods, techniques, and practices for aircraft quality repairs and construction.
This is the main guidance material for A&P technicians in aviation. Its a good
place to start and it is FREE to download.
But then the main thing is to just dive in and start making parts. There's
no substitute for hands on experience...the best way to learn the basic skills.
Terry Bowden
ph (254) 715-4773
fax (254) 853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)yahoo.com> |
Gary,
AC 43.13 is available in pdf format at http://www.saaa.com. Just click on
downloads.
Have fun
Peter
Wonthaggi, Australia
Http://cpc-world.cable.nu
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills
Gary,
I recommend that you go hunting on the FAA.gov website and download a copy
of
advisory circular AC 43.13-1B. Its the best reference for acceptable
methods, techniques, and practices for aircraft quality repairs and
construction.
This is the main guidance material for A&P technicians in aviation. Its a
good
place to start and it is FREE to download.
But then the main thing is to just dive in and start making parts. There's
no substitute for hands on experience...the best way to learn the basic
skills.
Terry Bowden
ph (254) 715-4773
fax (254) 853-3805
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Basic Skills |
| From: | john e fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
writes:
>
> The EAA website has for sale several books that might help me, like:
>
> Techniques of Aircraft Building
> Wood Aircraft Building Techniques
> Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook
>
> Can anyone recommend or comment on these books or suggest
> alternatives?
>
> Thanks,
> Gary C.
> Chino, CA
Gary,
I have the Wood Air. Buil. Tech. book and recommend it. I am not
familiar with the other two. But most of all, you need the books by Tony
Bingelis, especially Voumes I and II. His third book, Firewall Forward,
I have, but haven't used at all yet, so I really can't coment on it.
John Fay in Peoria
P.S.
I received a great honor at OSH this year. A friend and I were walking
down one of the lanes in the FlyMarket when a younger man approached from
the other direction. He slowed and looked at me, then he said
tentatively, "Doc?" I replied, "Mosher?" He brightened and said "Yes."
I had to disappoint him and tell him that, no, I was not Doc Mosher.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Basic Skills--Tony Bingelis Book Series |
Gary---though the group has heard me say it a hundred times, I say that the
book series by Tony Bingelis was my #1 source for getting questions
answered during the building process--- here's where you can order them if
you choose to: http://shop.eaa.org/html/02books_bingelis.html
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 08/12/03 |
In a message dated 8/12/03 11:57:05 PM, pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com
writes:
<< From: "Gary M. Colwill" <g.colwill3(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills
>>
Gary- I certainly recommend building a model first. You can use the plans as
is for the fuse and this will be enlightening! But the tail and wings are to a
different scale. I did this, and I think that I saved many hours of
correcting mistakes or misunderstandings. We're having an Open House here at the
Compton Airport this Sat.(the 16th). My partial Piet will be on display, as well
as
a totally disassembled Corvair motor. And I'll have my model there too! You
can inspect my approach - I'm using vertical grain douglas fir and basswood
plywood, and would still recommend this.
Carl L @ Compton Airport (CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Basic Skills--Tony Bingelis Book Series |
Gary,
I second that motion!!! The books are for someone who never heard of the
building concepts before, but correct, so that he makes the complicated very
understandable. He always gives different options as well. These books
are tops on my building list
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills--Tony Bingelis Book Series
>
> Gary---though the group has heard me say it a hundred times, I say that
the
> book series by Tony Bingelis was my #1 source for getting questions
> answered during the building process--- here's where you can order them
if
> you choose to: http://shop.eaa.org/html/02books_bingelis.html
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Deon Engelmann" <engelmannd(at)icon.co.za> |
Hi Gary
"AC 43.13-1B" has been replaced by "AC 43.13-1B CHG 1" and can be
downloaded on a per chapter basis at:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCirc
ular.nsf/ACNumber/99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E?OpenDocument
I'm not quite sure what the change is but it always better to work from
the latest AC.
Deon Engelmann
Pretoria
South Africa
> Gary,
> I recommend that you go hunting on the FAA.gov website and download a
copy
> of
> advisory circular AC 43.13-1B. Its the best reference for acceptable
> methods, techniques, and practices for aircraft quality repairs and
> construction.
> This is the main guidance material for A&P technicians in aviation.
Its a
> good
> place to start and it is FREE to download.
> But then the main thing is to just dive in and start making parts.
There's
> no substitute for hands on experience...the best way to learn the
basic
> skills.
>
> Terry Bowden
> ph (254) 715-4773
> fax (254) 853-3805
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Basic Skills |
Gary,
I think that's why most people start with building ribs. If it takes you
till the 15th one to get it right, you can throw out the first 14 without
costing alot of money. Or even rip the wood from scrap on a tablesaw and
practice on that till you , or an experienced eye gives you the go-ahead.
Guess what I'm trying to say is,,,don't start the project with the fuselage
and it's alot of $$$$$ out the window. Start with the small stuff (even
though it's just as important.) And the skills will come .
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary M. Colwill" <g.colwill3(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills
>
> Just got my plans yesterday and have spent every spare moment poring
> over them. Of everything I've gleaned in the short time I've had the
> plans, there is one one fact that seems to be the most important at the
> moment - I need to develop some basic skills!
>
> The EAA website has for sale several books that might help me, like:
>
> Techniques of Aircraft Building
> Wood Aircraft Building Techniques
> Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook
>
> Can anyone recommend or comment on these books or suggest alternatives?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary C.
> Chino, CA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | long-time auditor |
| From: | "Arden Adamson" <adamson(at)wnmdag.org> |
Greetings gentlemen,
I've been following your discussions on the Pietenpol email forum for
well over a year now. Thought it's about time I join in. I've enjoyed
all your great discussions. Didn't make it to Brodhead this year. Wish
I could have been there and met all of you who made it. Wife and I had
to be at a national conference in Washington DC that same time. Next
year hopefully.
Last Fall I started building my Piet. Had plans from Don Pietenpol
since 1990. All wing ribs are now done and the long fuselage is
together but needs fairings and "innerds". Today I began to lay out the
horizontal stabilizer. I will use the Corvair and have three engines
waiting. Some day I hope to join those of you who fly these fascinating
machines.
Have a great day,
Arden Adamson
Waupaca, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | More Flying Stories !! |
Each and every flight in a Pietenpol is an adventure in itself, be it
local or cross country. I can relate to Bob's fictional train story. The last
train I spotted, I climbed to attack altitude of 800' AGL, pull power and
rolled in for a fictional strafing run, entering a high speed 75 mph dive, and
squeezed off a burst from my pretend Vickers machine gun on the front three cars
and engine. Pulling up, over 500 feet from the engine, I was hoping he was a
lousy shot. I felt like Europe, 1918 !! Bank back and forth in front of the
engine, then flew parallel for a while, gave 'em a salute, and peeled off.
Too Cool !!
Hey, here is the way I estimate my ground speed. When flying IFR (I
follow Roads), it's very challenging to keep the shadow of my plane on the road,
just in front of a car or truck, especially in the heat of the day when
thermals beat me around. I can now see how the speed of traffic relates to my
shadow. The speed limit of the turnpike is 70 mph, and most traffic slowly gains
on
me. Assuming most vehicles travel 75 mph, this puts my cruise speed right
around 70 mph !! Who needs stop watches or GPS !!
On most local flights, I keep two rolls of Toilet Paper onboard, one on
each side of my hips. Ya know you can buy a pack of 20 rolls for about $4
bucks at Wal Mart. I can usually flush someone out of the house of one my
friends, by doing a low pass (over 500') flying overhead at full power, and letting
the exhaust note knock on the door. When I see them come out, I give 'em a
wing wag, and climb to T.P. bomb drop altitude of over 1000' AGL, and trying to
correct for wind speed and direction, I let go with a rolling action of my
wrist and arm, so the whole roll unravels. Slight roll left to keep an eye on
the
unrolled paper, it really gives me a feel for how fast I'm actually
traveling...it gets small really fast!! The thing is so light, and falls so slow,
that
any slight breeze blows it way off target. Once in a while I get it to land
within 1/4 mile. On several occasions, I'll climb to the highest altitude I've
ever been to - around 3000' AGL, and let one go, and circle back around and
see if I can cut it...very difficult to do. I haven't got a cut yet, but it
sure is a Hoot to try !!
Chuck G.
More flying stories to come !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <twinboom(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 08/12/03 |
Carl,
Liz and I are planning on attending Saturday. If anything changes, I'll let
you know, but as it stands, we'll be there.
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
Yucaipa California
www.inlandsloperebels.com
W.W. conversion manual, #3202 www.flycorvair.com
----- Original Message -----
From: ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 10:37 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 08/12/03
In a message dated 8/12/03 11:57:05 PM, pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com
writes:
<< From: "Gary M. Colwill" <g.colwill3(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills
>>
Gary- I certainly recommend building a model first. You can use the plans as
is for the fuse and this will be enlightening! But the tail and wings are to
a
different scale. I did this, and I think that I saved many hours of
correcting mistakes or misunderstandings. We're having an Open House here at
the
Compton Airport this Sat.(the 16th). My partial Piet will be on display, as well
as
a totally disassembled Corvair motor. And I'll have my model there too! You
can inspect my approach - I'm using vertical grain douglas fir and basswood
plywood, and would still recommend this.
Carl L @ Compton Airport (CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: long-time auditor |
| From: | john e fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
> Last Fall I started building my Piet.
I will use the Corvair and have three
> engines
> waiting.
> Arden Adamson
>
> Waupaca, WI
>
Arden,
Do you know where there are any more of those engines available.
John Fay in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Y'know, folks- I seem to learn something every time I sit down and look at
the plans or pictures of the Pietenpol. Last night I was looking at the
Pete Bowers article on the Piet from back in the 60's and noticed in the
3-view (very informative, by the way, and clearer than the BHP plans 3-views
in many details) that the wing flop panel is asymmetrical... it's wider on
the port side to make entry easier. Coincidentally, I was browsing through
the pictures that Mike Cuy uploaded to the Matronics site and noticed the
same thing in a photo of the beautiful yellow Piet. I had never noticed
that in the plans or in photos, but there it is.
I think most folks make their flop panels symmetrical about the airplane's
centerline, but what the heck- it makes sense to make it wider on the entry
side of the plane.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 08/13/03 |
Arden,
I've just started my search for a Corvair and have not had much luck
finding anything to overhaul under $500. Since you have accumulated three, I
thought I would ask if you might suggest where I might start shopping for an
engine to build up.
Garth Dawson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Corvair's available |
check out Jay Hoppenworth's ad in the last Brodhead Pietenpol
Newsletter----he had a bunch of engines listed for sale in the
classified. (he's in Cedar Rapids, Iowa)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: flying stories |
Speaking of bridges:
Take a reading on the Bastrop bridge over the Colorado. I (dreamed) I knew a
fellow who went under it in an L-16. Just a dream.
CMC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 08/13/03 |
Garth
look up the local corvair/corsair club online, put a
"corvair engine wanted" ad in a local newspaper, stop
at the local chevrolet car dealership to see if there
are any collecters in the area, visit old car shows
and ask around.
Del
--- Gsrth(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Arden,
> I've just started my search for a Corvair and
> have not had much luck
> finding anything to overhaul under $500. Since you
> have accumulated three, I
> thought I would ask if you might suggest where I
> might start shopping for an
> engine to build up.
> Garth Dawson
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: long-time auditor |
Larry Claypool in the western suburbs of Chicago is one of the premier
Corvair guys in the country. He can hook you up with a good core.
Jim Ash
>
>
> > Last Fall I started building my Piet.
>
> I will use the Corvair and have three
> > engines
> > waiting.
>
> > Arden Adamson
> >
> > Waupaca, WI
> >
>
>Arden,
>
>Do you know where there are any more of those engines available.
>
>John Fay in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - |
08/13/03
Garth -
Where are you located?
Jim Ash
>
> Arden,
> I've just started my search for a Corvair and have not had much luck
>finding anything to overhaul under $500. Since you have accumulated three, I
>thought I would ask if you might suggest where I might start shopping for an
>engine to build up.
> Garth Dawson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
I couldn't figure out how to do an assymetrical flop panel on a 3-piece
wing.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Zuniga [mailto:taildrags(at)hotmail.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing flop panel
Y'know, folks- I seem to learn something every time I sit down and look at
the plans or pictures of the Pietenpol. Last night I was looking at the
Pete Bowers article on the Piet from back in the 60's and noticed in the
3-view (very informative, by the way, and clearer than the BHP plans 3-views
in many details) that the wing flop panel is asymmetrical... it's wider on
the port side to make entry easier. Coincidentally, I was browsing through
the pictures that Mike Cuy uploaded to the Matronics site and noticed the
same thing in a photo of the beautiful yellow Piet. I had never noticed
that in the plans or in photos, but there it is.
I think most folks make their flop panels symmetrical about the airplane's
centerline, but what the heck- it makes sense to make it wider on the entry
side of the plane.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dpilot <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
Why in the world does anybody need a flop panel?
I have moved my wing 6.5 inches to the rear, and the rain doesn't drip in the rear
seat,
and I have no problem getting in or out.
I am 6'6" tall, 260 pounds and 70 years old.
Seems to me a lot younger and smaller guys are less able to bend!
JimV.
"Hubbard, Eugene" wrote:
I couldn't figure out how to do an assymetrical flop panel on a 3-piece
wing.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Zuniga [mailto:taildrags(at)hotmail.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing flop panel
Y'know, folks- I seem to learn something every time I sit down and look at
the plans or pictures of the Pietenpol. Last night I was looking at the
Pete Bowers article on the Piet from back in the 60's and noticed in the
3-view (very informative, by the way, and clearer than the BHP plans 3-views
in many details) that the wing flop panel is asymmetrical... it's wider on
the port side to make entry easier. Coincidentally, I was browsing through
the pictures that Mike Cuy uploaded to the Matronics site and noticed the
same thing in a photo of the beautiful yellow Piet. I had never noticed
that in the plans or in photos, but there it is.
I think most folks make their flop panels symmetrical about the airplane's
centerline, but what the heck- it makes sense to make it wider on the entry
side of the plane.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | The Bower's article..... |
The Sept 2003 issue of Kitplanes has an article on Peter Bowers.
Here's and interesting excerpt from that article:
"Bowers married his wife, Alice, in 1974. For the occasion, they created a
wedding announcement using a photograph of Bowers' restored 1930 Pietenpol
Air Camper with the words "Just married" painted on the side."
It was most likely the Air Camper (688Y) that's highlighted in the magazine
article I sent out. I think it's such a hoot running across someone that
appreciates (or appreciated) this design as much as I.
OK, there's your trivia for the day. Pretty cool, eh?.
I emailed quite a few copies of the article but if you asked for a copy and
I didn't reply, send me another note (directly, not on the matronics list,
please). I think I got everyone that asked but I'm not really sure....
And I agree with the recent statement someone made about all these flying
stories......they are wonderful. Thank you.
Jim in Plano
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wing flop panel |
Jim,
I assume you have small tires and/or a step, and/or a higher wing than
standard.
I built with the original "V" gear with the 21" O.D. tires. I'm 6'3" and
after I do a high kick, like the Rockettes, get my leg in, my left toe is
"toedancing" to get me to the hole. Now as I rest some butt weight on the
turtledeck, so I can reach forward to grab a strut, I'm right in the center
of my circular cutout.
There is no way I would be able to get in with out the cutout.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "dpilot" <dpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing flop panel
>
> Why in the world does anybody need a flop panel?
> I have moved my wing 6.5 inches to the rear, and the rain doesn't drip in
the rear seat,
> and I have no problem getting in or out.
> I am 6'6" tall, 260 pounds and 70 years old.
> Seems to me a lot younger and smaller guys are less able to bend!
> JimV.
>
>
> "Hubbard, Eugene" wrote:
>
> I couldn't figure out how to do an assymetrical flop panel on a 3-piece
> wing.
>
> Gene
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Oscar Zuniga [mailto:taildrags(at)hotmail.com]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing flop panel
>
>
> Y'know, folks- I seem to learn something every time I sit down and look at
> the plans or pictures of the Pietenpol. Last night I was looking at the
> Pete Bowers article on the Piet from back in the 60's and noticed in the
> 3-view (very informative, by the way, and clearer than the BHP plans
3-views
>
> in many details) that the wing flop panel is asymmetrical... it's wider on
> the port side to make entry easier. Coincidentally, I was browsing through
> the pictures that Mike Cuy uploaded to the Matronics site and noticed the
> same thing in a photo of the beautiful yellow Piet. I had never noticed
> that in the plans or in photos, but there it is.
>
> I think most folks make their flop panels symmetrical about the airplane's
> centerline, but what the heck- it makes sense to make it wider on the
entry
> side of the plane.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dpilot <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing flop panel |
Mr. Pietenpol told me it was ok to raise my wing up as much as 4 inches.
So I did.
I can easily stand with my left foot on the ground and put my right foot on the
seat and stick my body over the right side of the fuselage as far as possible
and turn around and sit down.
As I said, I'm old, fat and stiff, but it's really no problem
JimV.
w b evans wrote:
Jim,
I assume you have small tires and/or a step, and/or a higher wing than
standard.
I built with the original "V" gear with the 21" O.D. tires. I'm 6'3" and
after I do a high kick, like the Rockettes, get my leg in, my left toe is
"toedancing" to get me to the hole. Now as I rest some butt weight on the
turtledeck, so I can reach forward to grab a strut, I'm right in the center
of my circular cutout.
There is no way I would be able to get in with out the cutout.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "dpilot"
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing flop panel
>
> Why in the world does anybody need a flop panel?
> I have moved my wing 6.5 inches to the rear, and the rain doesn't drip in
the rear seat,
> and I have no problem getting in or out.
> I am 6'6" tall, 260 pounds and 70 years old.
> Seems to me a lot younger and smaller guys are less able to bend!
> JimV.
>
>
> "Hubbard, Eugene" wrote:
>
> I couldn't figure out how to do an assymetrical flop panel on a 3-piece
> wing.
>
> Gene
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Oscar Zuniga [mailto:taildrags(at)hotmail.com]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing flop panel
>
>
> Y'know, folks- I seem to learn something every time I sit down and look at
> the plans or pictures of the Pietenpol. Last night I was looking at the
> Pete Bowers article on the Piet from back in the 60's and noticed in the
> 3-view (very informative, by the way, and clearer than the BHP plans
3-views
>
> in many details) that the wing flop panel is asymmetrical... it's wider on
> the port side to make entry easier. Coincidentally, I was browsing through
> the pictures that Mike Cuy uploaded to the Matronics site and noticed the
> same thing in a photo of the beautiful yellow Piet. I had never noticed
> that in the plans or in photos, but there it is.
>
> I think most folks make their flop panels symmetrical about the airplane's
> centerline, but what the heck- it makes sense to make it wider on the
entry
> side of the plane.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: flying stories |
Gary,
1. Never volunteer for anything
2. He who asks questions gets answers
3. My Dr says I'm ok. Good eyes, reflexies, blood pressure, nerves, attitude,
just deaf'ern hell. Don't use a radio so that's not important.
4. Soooooooooooooo who gives a damn about waiting for those beauros to get
off their dead Clinton and pass a ruling. Not this rebel
Guess who in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More Flying Stories !! |
The bad things I've taught you!!!
Jim D
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 11:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: More Flying Stories !!
Each and every flight in a Pietenpol is an adventure in itself, be it
local or cross country. I can relate to Bob's fictional train story. The last
train I spotted, I climbed to attack altitude of 800' AGL, pull power and
rolled in for a fictional strafing run, entering a high speed 75 mph dive, and
squeezed off a burst from my pretend Vickers machine gun on the front three cars
and engine. Pulling up, over 500 feet from the engine, I was hoping he was a
lousy shot. I felt like Europe, 1918 !! Bank back and forth in front of the
engine, then flew parallel for a while, gave 'em a salute, and peeled off.
Too Cool !!
Hey, here is the way I estimate my ground speed. When flying IFR (I
follow Roads), it's very challenging to keep the shadow of my plane on the road,
just in front of a car or truck, especially in the heat of the day when
thermals beat me around. I can now see how the speed of traffic relates to my
shadow. The speed limit of the turnpike is 70 mph, and most traffic slowly gains
on
me. Assuming most vehicles travel 75 mph, this puts my cruise speed right
around 70 mph !! Who needs stop watches or GPS !!
On most local flights, I keep two rolls of Toilet Paper onboard, one on
each side of my hips. Ya know you can buy a pack of 20 rolls for about $4
bucks at Wal Mart. I can usually flush someone out of the house of one my
friends, by doing a low pass (over 500') flying overhead at full power, and letting
the exhaust note knock on the door. When I see them come out, I give 'em a
wing wag, and climb to T.P. bomb drop altitude of over 1000' AGL, and trying
to
correct for wind speed and direction, I let go with a rolling action of my
wrist and arm, so the whole roll unravels. Slight roll left to keep an eye on
July 21, 2003 - August 14, 2003
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dh