Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dk

September 18, 2003 - October 19, 2003



Subject: Fuselage Weight
Does anyone have the weight of a bare wood fuselage? Without fittings and landing gear or tail feathers, just the framework with all the plywood and gussets installed, but without seats. We have our second steel fuselage welded up now and the question came up about weight. Our regular work night is Monday and we plan to take scales and weigh up a 4130 steel fuselage. I'll post the weight on Tuesday. Barry Davis = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fin/Rudder Dimensions
Date: Sep 18, 2003
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
I adjusted mine during the building to match up, top and bottom. Good eyes, most people don't see that during the plans review. Most people however don't notice on a plane that has the rudder hanging below the tailpost either. Steve e. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 2.8 points Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions 'Received' headers Mike, You have saved yourself some extra work by noticing this discrepancy in the empenage dimensions. Also, take into account that the rudder when installed with hinges is approx 1/2 in. from the fin and has a trapezoidal shape. I made my vertical fin and rudder to the dimensions on the plans. When I placed them on the fuselage I found that the rudder hung below the fuselage approximately 1-inch. I am now lining up the bottom of the rudder with the bottom of the fuselage and installing the hinges. This leaves the rudder higher than the vertical fin, so I am adding a piece of spruce to the top of the vertical fin. Some builders just let the rudder hang below the fuselage and that also works fine. Dick Hartwig _____________________________ From: Michael Green <mmml(at)bigpond.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions Hi All, I'm new to the list, but have been monitoring for the last couple of months. My timber was shipped from the States today (being sent to Australia) so I'm eagerly going over the plans ready to swing into action when it arrives. I've decided to start with the tail group but noticed a descrepancy in the length of the leading edge of the rudder, compared to the fin, horizontal stab and tailpost. These three added togeather come up 1/2" short of the rudder leading edge. Is this normal ? Mike Green Romsey Australia ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuselage Weight
Date: Sep 18, 2003
Sounds like we're pretty close DJ...I weighed my Piet ( not GN-1) last week. it's just like yours but with pilot's seat belt and harness, aux. wing tank, all instruments, trim system and motor mount but no rudder pedals or fire wall mine came in at 212#. Mine has a Heath tailwheel and Goodyear 6" wheels and brakes the motor mount is a bed mount for my Franklin ( a little heavier than a Continental mount). Ed G. >From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:43:03 -0700 > > >My 90% complete fuselage (as shown in the link below) weighs in at 195lb. >That includes controls and rudder pedals, J-3 landing gear, aluminum >cabanes, Grove wheels and brakes and Matco tailwheel. No instruments, >fuel tank, seat belts, or control cables. > >here's the link that shows the plane in that state of completion > >http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/07-19-03.htm > >I'm not sure if I'm on par with what it should be or not.... can someone >else chime in with some fuse numbers?? > >DJ Vegh >N74DV > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Barry Davis >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > >Does anyone have the weight of a bare wood fuselage? >Without fittings and landing gear or tail feathers, just the framework with >all the plywood and gussets installed, but without seats. > >We have our second steel fuselage welded up now and the question came up >about weight. Our regular work night is Monday and we plan to take scales >and weigh up a 4130 steel fuselage. I'll post the weight on Tuesday. > >Barry Davis > > >>This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by >Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more >information on an anti-virus email solution, visit ><http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. > > Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. https://broadband.msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary M. Colwill" <g.colwill3(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Fin/Rudder Dimensions
Date: Sep 18, 2003
Just curious - did the aircraft that BHP built have rudders that extended below the tailpost? This seems to be more a "finish" issue than a "function" issue, but I'm curious to see how close the designer's planes are to the plans... Gary C. Chino, CA -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Eldredge Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions I adjusted mine during the building to match up, top and bottom. Good eyes, most people don't see that during the plans review. Most people however don't notice on a plane that has the rudder hanging below the tailpost either. Steve e. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 2.8 points Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions 'Received' headers Mike, You have saved yourself some extra work by noticing this discrepancy in the empenage dimensions. Also, take into account that the rudder when installed with hinges is approx 1/2 in. from the fin and has a trapezoidal shape. I made my vertical fin and rudder to the dimensions on the plans. When I placed them on the fuselage I found that the rudder hung below the fuselage approximately 1-inch. I am now lining up the bottom of the rudder with the bottom of the fuselage and installing the hinges. This leaves the rudder higher than the vertical fin, so I am adding a piece of spruce to the top of the vertical fin. Some builders just let the rudder hang below the fuselage and that also works fine. Dick Hartwig _____________________________ From: Michael Green <mmml(at)bigpond.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions Hi All, I'm new to the list, but have been monitoring for the last couple of months. My timber was shipped from the States today (being sent to Australia) so I'm eagerly going over the plans ready to swing into action when it arrives. I've decided to start with the tail group but noticed a descrepancy in the length of the leading edge of the rudder, compared to the fin, horizontal stab and tailpost. These three added togeather come up 1/2" short of the rudder leading edge. Is this normal ? Mike Green Romsey Australia ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com>
Subject: Fin/Rudder Dimensions
Date: Sep 18, 2003
Mike, Good catch. I found it the hard way. The way I handled the problem was to add a filler strip to the bottom of the vertical fin, then to extend the fin mountings so that the through bolts go to the spar instead of the filler. If I were doing it again, I'd extend the fin to make them match. Welcome to the group. You'll have fun! Gene -----Original Message----- From: Michael Green [mailto:mmml(at)bigpond.com] Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions Hi All, I'm new to the list, but have been monitoring for the last couple of months. My timber was shipped from the States today (being sent to Australia) so I'm eagerly going over the plans ready to swing into action when it arrives. I've decided to start with the tail group but noticed a descrepancy in the length of the leading edge of the rudder, compared to the fin, horizontal stab and tailpost. These three added togeather come up 1/2" short of the rudder leading edge. Is this normal ? Mike Green Romsey Australia ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2003
From: "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Re: Fuselage Weight
Hey Ed, What is the actual weight of your tail wheel? ACS says it should weigh 5.2 pounds which is heavier then the Matco at 5 pounds. I would think the Heath would be lighter. Chris T. Sacramento, Ca Quoting Ed Grentzer : > > > Sounds like we're pretty close DJ...I weighed my Piet ( not GN-1) last > week. it's just like yours but with pilot's seat belt and harness, aux. wing > > tank, all instruments, trim system and motor mount but no rudder pedals or > fire wall mine came in at 212#. Mine has a Heath tailwheel and Goodyear 6" > wheels and brakes the motor mount is a bed mount for my Franklin ( a little > heavier than a Continental mount). Ed G. > > > >From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:43:03 -0700 > > > > > >My 90% complete fuselage (as shown in the link below) weighs in at 195lb. > > >That includes controls and rudder pedals, J-3 landing gear, aluminum > >cabanes, Grove wheels and brakes and Matco tailwheel. No instruments, > >fuel tank, seat belts, or control cables. > > > >here's the link that shows the plane in that state of completion > > > >http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/07-19-03.htm > > > >I'm not sure if I'm on par with what it should be or not.... can someone > >else chime in with some fuse numbers?? > > > >DJ Vegh > >N74DV > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Barry Davis > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > > > > > > >Does anyone have the weight of a bare wood fuselage? > >Without fittings and landing gear or tail feathers, just the framework with > > >all the plywood and gussets installed, but without seats. > > > >We have our second steel fuselage welded up now and the question came up > >about weight. Our regular work night is Monday and we plan to take scales > >and weigh up a 4130 steel fuselage. I'll post the weight on Tuesday. > > > >Barry Davis > > > > > >>This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by > > >Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more > >information on an anti-virus email solution, visit > ><http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. > > > > > > Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. > https://broadband.msn.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jon Botsford" <botsford7(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: Re: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions
Date: Sep 18, 2003
ken, EAA Chapter 59's Low & Slow Flyin will be this Saturday at McGregor Executive Airport. (PWG) The airport is owned by the City of McGregor. It is located just west of Waco, Texas. It is on Highway 84. If you are coming from Austin, Texas go North on IH-37 and get off at the Highway 6 exit. Go westerly on it until you get to Highway 84 (will be a overpass. Turn left on 84 (west). It will be about 7 miles from this point. There are shorter ways I will leave it up to you. Come eat some Catfish and see some Piets and other Low & Slow aircraft. To others on this list Y'all come and eat some Catfish with us!!. Bring your beautiful Piets!! Corky, are you listening??? Jon Botsford listening for Corky's answer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Chambers" <kchambers(at)winternals.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions I searched the archives but I can't find the location of that flyin near Waco Sept. 20. What's the name of the airport? Which highway is it on? Also, anyone have suggestions for bolting in the front seat? I thought two bolts in front and two on each side should hold it. I need to decide on the landing gear soon. I'm hoping to use differential braking for steering and wondering if motorcycle wheels with big disks might be the most effective brakes for this airplane. Does anyone have a setup like this? On the straight or split axle gear? If you had it to do over again, would you build the same type of landing gear? Same type of wheels and brakes? What if anything would you do differently? Thanks men. Couldn't do it without you. Ken in cool rainy Austin Texas, working in a one-bedroom apartment, finishing up the seats and control sticks. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jon Botsford" <botsford7(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: Re: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions
Date: Sep 18, 2003
Hopefully the Hurricane has him grounded for the weekend!! Georgie stay away. PWG is about 11 miles from his ranch!! Jon Botsford ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions Just hope the president does not decide to go to crawford that weekend. The TFR would shut the flyin down. chris bobka ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Chambers" <kchambers(at)winternals.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions > > I searched the archives but I can't find the location of that flyin near > Waco Sept. 20. What's the name of the airport? Which highway is it on? > > Also, anyone have suggestions for bolting in the front seat? I thought > two bolts in front and two on each side should hold it. > > I need to decide on the landing gear soon. I'm hoping to use > differential braking for steering and wondering if motorcycle wheels > with big disks might be the most effective brakes for this airplane. > Does anyone have a setup like this? On the straight or split axle gear? > If you had it to do over again, would you build the same type of landing > gear? Same type of wheels and brakes? What if anything would you do > differently? > > Thanks men. Couldn't do it without you. > > Ken in cool rainy Austin Texas, working in a one-bedroom apartment, > finishing up the seats and control sticks. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2003
From: Michael Green <mmml(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re:Fin/Rudder Dimensions
Thanks guys, I thought that I'd missed something. Think I'll leave things as they are. Mike Green ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N925WB1(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2003
Subject: Re: Wright Flyer show
Walt, That Piet is in the Virginia Aviation Musuem. I've never been there, but here's the web address: http://www.vam.smv.org/ The address for the plane info is: http://www.vam.smv.org/planedes.html The Wright replica being built on the Discovery show you saw is not the same plane that will be attempting the flight at Kitty Hawk later this year. That airplane is being built by Ken Hyde in Warrenton, VA at the Meadows private airstrip. I used to fly in that area, and have visited his shop many times to check out the various Wright airplanes he's building replicas of. Very cool. You may remember a few months ago when he crashed a Model B into some trees. This was a big scandal around the area, as he claimed to have only been taxi-testing the aircraft, but local rumor was that he had actually been flying it intentionally, but hadn't told the media or any of the sponsors to avoid attention. That's just a rumor, I honestly can't say that it's true. Anyway, Ken Hyde's outfit is called the Wright Experience, and their website is: http://www.wrightexperience.com/ -Wayne Bressler In a message dated 9/17/2003 10:04:03 PM Central Daylight Time, wbeevans(at)verizon.net writes: > > Was watching a show tonite about building the Wright Flyer, and saw a Piet > hanging from the hanger ceiling behind. > walt evans > NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2003
Subject: Re: Motorcycle wheels
Your question is a good one! I have just mailed a little (1062 word) article to the BPA Newsletter on the subject of wire wheels. I plan to send a copy of it off-net to Ken Chambers so that I can attach it. In the article, I have a list of a dozen or so Piets that have been flying with motorcycle wheels. I have a pair of 19X4 BMW wheels on my Piet which is some 85% complete. The article is somewhat inconclusive because I don't have the test data I need. I plan to run tests on a Kawasaki 21X3 wheel next spring. I think I can show that if the wheel can stand 1100 pounds sideload, the straight axle gear would collapse before the wheel would....Carl Vought ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Wright Flyer show
Date: Sep 18, 2003
Here is the site for the Discovery Show.
http://www.wrightredux.org/index.cfm?page=1 ----- Original Message ----- From: <N925WB1(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wright Flyer show > > Walt, > > That Piet is in the Virginia Aviation Musuem. I've never been there, but > here's the web address: http://www.vam.smv.org/ > The address for the plane info is: http://www.vam.smv.org/planedes. html > > The Wright replica being built on the Discovery show you saw is not the same > plane that will be attempting the flight at Kitty Hawk later this year. That > airplane is being built by Ken Hyde in Warrenton, VA at the Meadows private > airstrip. I used to fly in that area, and have visited his shop many times to > check out the various Wright airplanes he's building replicas of. Very cool. > You may remember a few months ago when he crashed a Model B into some trees. > This was a big scandal around the area, as he claimed to have only been > taxi-testing the aircraft, but local rumor was that he had actually been flying it > intentionally, but hadn't told the media or any of the sponsors to avoid > attention. That's just a rumor, I honestly can't say that it's true. > > Anyway, Ken Hyde's outfit is called the Wright Experience, and their website > is: http://www.wrightexperience.com/ > > -Wayne Bressler > > > In a message dated 9/17/2003 10:04:03 PM Central Daylight Time, > wbeevans(at)verizon.net writes: > > > > > Was watching a show tonite about building the Wright Flyer, and saw a Piet > > hanging from the hanger ceiling behind. > > walt evans > > NX140DL > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Engine mount
Date: Sep 16, 2003
Carl, I am working on my engine mount so I can test run the Corvair soon as it is ready. Are you using the mounts as shown in the plans? I am ready to drill for the steel parts to bolt them to the fuselage and on the bottom pieces it shows bending the tab so it will lay on the firewal. I cannot find any reference to whether or not any hole is drill in the tab and if so, what is put in there. Any ideas on this? Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: <Carbarvo(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine mount > > Hey Alex.....Good going on your Piet progress...I didn't realize you were > that far along! I'm setting up my Piet for the Model-A which I already have > sitting in its' mounts. All structure is finished and the fabric is on the tail > feathers, ailerons and the bottom of the left wing. The more I talk to Mark > Langford, the more interested I get in the Corvair engine. I may change engines > after a couple of years experience with the Ford. I've ordered Wm. Wynne's > expensive little book. I am particularly interested right now in where the engine CG > winds up with the engine outfitted just as you have it. I think Wm. Wynne's > Piet was one of the best looking Piets I've seen. If you get over in this > direction, give me a call so I can give you directions to my house...It's real > easy. Keep us posted...Carl Vought, Huntsville, AL. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2003
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear
questions McGregor is PWG, southwest from downtown Waco. I used to fly there sometimes in a borrowed plane based there. The Prohibited area is always over Crawford, but it gets bigger when Bush shows up. There is a high-alert time when Airforce One is in transit, but it doesn't last long, maybe 20-30 minutes. They fly into TSTC (code - CNW) airport, and push it into a paint hangar that L3-Comm clears out for them when they're in town. Working at L3 can be a little challenging when this happens, but they do a lot of DOD work and they're paranoid about security anyhow. Once they post guard and the hangar doors are closed, the TFR still remains big, but they ease up on the local airspace a bit. Austin, Waco, and Dallas approaches all know about it, and try to warn anybody going near the area. In the air, they're your best source of information for this. Unfortunately, they don't typically give a lot of notice they're coming. Your best shot is to talk to one of the approaches just to make sure. Jim Ash > >Hopefully the Hurricane has him grounded for the weekend!! Georgie stay >away. PWG is about 11 miles from his ranch!! >Jon Botsford > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear >questions > > > > >Just hope the president does not decide to go to crawford that weekend. The >TFR would shut the flyin down. > >chris bobka >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ken Chambers" <kchambers(at)winternals.com> >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions > > > > > > > I searched the archives but I can't find the location of that flyin near > > Waco Sept. 20. What's the name of the airport? Which highway is it on? > > > > Also, anyone have suggestions for bolting in the front seat? I thought > > two bolts in front and two on each side should hold it. > > > > I need to decide on the landing gear soon. I'm hoping to use > > differential braking for steering and wondering if motorcycle wheels > > with big disks might be the most effective brakes for this airplane. > > Does anyone have a setup like this? On the straight or split axle gear? > > If you had it to do over again, would you build the same type of landing > > gear? Same type of wheels and brakes? What if anything would you do > > differently? > > > > Thanks men. Couldn't do it without you. > > > > Ken in cool rainy Austin Texas, working in a one-bedroom apartment, > > finishing up the seats and control sticks. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NormDecou(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2003
Subject: fuselage weight
Hi Barry, I am just getting ready to join my two fuselage sides now. It is an extended fuselage. If you like I will e-mail you the weight in a week or two when I finish the assembly. Norm and Adrienne Decou NormDecou(at)aol.com Just in the process of making sure that everything is square and symmetrical before I glue the two fuselage halves together. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2003
From: Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Engine mount
> >Carl, >I am working on my engine mount so I can test run the Corvair soon as it is >ready. Are you using the mounts as shown in the plans? I am ready to drill >for the steel parts to bolt them to the fuselage and on the bottom pieces it >shows bending the tab so it will lay on the firewal. I cannot find any >reference to whether or not any hole is drill in the tab and if so, what is >put in there. Any ideas on this? >Alex Alex, If they are the tabs I think they are, they aren't structural in any way. We had a brief discussion about them years ago & I think that the consensus was that you put a wood screw into them that go through to the bottom cross piece - for what reason I don't remember why. Kip Gardner (Getting the 1st bits of Isabel here in NE Ohio & worrying about all my friends back in my home town, Norfolk, VA) North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: fuselage weight
Date: Sep 18, 2003
Norm, get yourself a set of Pony strap clamps.... maybe 3 or 4 of them. They came in EXTREMELY handy when I joined my fuselage sides. you can see some detail photos of of my ship during that process here:
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-24-02.htm DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: <NormDecou(at)aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight > > Hi Barry, > I am just getting ready to join my two fuselage sides now. It is an extended > fuselage. If you like I will e-mail you the weight in a week or two when I > finish the assembly. > Norm and Adrienne Decou > NormDecou(at)aol.com > Just in the process of making sure that everything is square and symmetrical > before I glue the two fuselage halves together. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Engine mount
Date: Sep 16, 2003
Carl, I am working on my engine mount so I can test run the Corvair soon as it is ready. Are you using the mounts as shown in the plans? I am ready to drill for the steel parts to bolt them to the fuselage and on the bottom pieces it shows bending the tab so it will lay on the firewal. I cannot find any reference to whether or not any hole is drill in the tab and if so, what is put in there. Any ideas on this? Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: <Carbarvo(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine mount > > Hey Alex.....Good going on your Piet progress...I didn't realize you were > that far along! I'm setting up my Piet for the Model-A which I already have > sitting in its' mounts. All structure is finished and the fabric is on the tail > feathers, ailerons and the bottom of the left wing. The more I talk to Mark > Langford, the more interested I get in the Corvair engine. I may change engines > after a couple of years experience with the Ford. I've ordered Wm. Wynne's > expensive little book. I am particularly interested right now in where the engine CG > winds up with the engine outfitted just as you have it. I think Wm. Wynne's > Piet was one of the best looking Piets I've seen. If you get over in this > direction, give me a call so I can give you directions to my house...It's real > easy. Keep us posted...Carl Vought, Huntsville, AL. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Engine mount
Date: Sep 16, 2003
Carl, I am working on my engine mount so I can test run the Corvair soon as it is ready. Are you using the mounts as shown in the plans? I am ready to drill for the steel parts to bolt them to the fuselage and on the bottom pieces it shows bending the tab so it will lay on the firewal. I cannot find any reference to whether or not any hole is drill in the tab and if so, what is put in there. Any ideas on this? Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: <Carbarvo(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine mount > > Hey Alex.....Good going on your Piet progress...I didn't realize you were > that far along! I'm setting up my Piet for the Model-A which I already have > sitting in its' mounts. All structure is finished and the fabric is on the tail > feathers, ailerons and the bottom of the left wing. The more I talk to Mark > Langford, the more interested I get in the Corvair engine. I may change engines > after a couple of years experience with the Ford. I've ordered Wm. Wynne's > expensive little book. I am particularly interested right now in where the engine CG > winds up with the engine outfitted just as you have it. I think Wm. Wynne's > Piet was one of the best looking Piets I've seen. If you get over in this > direction, give me a call so I can give you directions to my house...It's real > easy. Keep us posted...Carl Vought, Huntsville, AL. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2003
Subject: Re: Fin/Rudder Dimensions
In a message dated 9/18/03 1:52:03 PM Central Daylight Time, g.colwill3(at)verizon.net writes: << Just curious - did the aircraft that BHP built have rudders that extended below the tailpost? >> Good question. I never thought to look at the 'Last Original' at Brodhead. OK, I know somebody looked at it...please let us know. My rudder leading edge extends below the bottom of the fuse, and I don't like it. Think of all that extra drag ;) If the tail skid fell off, the rudder would probably be torn away...oh yeah, I have a tail wheel back there now !! Mike from down under - good eye !! Fix the dimension before you build it. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2003
Subject: Re: Engine mount
Alex.....My Piet will have a model-A engine for power, at least at first. I think that later (in a couple of years) I'll change to a Corvair. I bought William Wynne's book now in order to start learning about the engine. At this point my knowlege of the engine is zero. Sorry I can't be of help...Carl V ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary M. Colwill" <g.colwill3(at)verizon.net>
Subject: fuselage weight
Date: Sep 18, 2003
I just want to let you know, Mr. Vegh, that I REALLY appreciate the pictures on your website. Pictures really are worth a thousand words and, since I'm new to woodworking, just staring at your work for awhile helps the words in the books I've bought become more clear. By the way, I have built one R/C aircraft (a lazy bee converted into a Gyrobee...fun!), and I can tell that your experience in that arena has probably had a direct influence on your building technique for the full-sized aircraft - the processes seem remarkably similar. Thanks again and keep them coming! Gary C Chino, CA -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight Norm, get yourself a set of Pony strap clamps.... maybe 3 or 4 of them. They came in EXTREMELY handy when I joined my fuselage sides. you can see some detail photos of of my ship during that process here: http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-24-02.htm DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: <NormDecou(at)aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight > > Hi Barry, > I am just getting ready to join my two fuselage sides now. It is an extended > fuselage. If you like I will e-mail you the weight in a week or two when I > finish the assembly. > Norm and Adrienne Decou > NormDecou(at)aol.com > Just in the process of making sure that everything is square and symmetrical > before I glue the two fuselage halves together. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2003
Subject: Fin/Rudder Dimensions
(2.8 points) points) 'From' juno.com does not match 'Received' headers Mike, You have saved yourself some extra work by noticing this discrepancy in the empenage dimensions. Also, take into account that the rudder when installed with hinges is approx 1/2 in. from the fin and has a trapezoidal shape. I made my vertical fin and rudder to the dimensions on the plans. When I placed them on the fuselage I found that the rudder hung below the fuselage approximately 1-inch. I am now lining up the bottom of the rudder with the bottom of the fuselage and installing the hinges. This leaves the rudder higher than the vertical fin, so I am adding a piece of spruce to the top of the vertical fin. Some builders just let the rudder hang below the fuselage and that also works fine. Dick Hartwig _____________________________
From: Michael Green <mmml(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions Hi All, I'm new to the list, but have been monitoring for the last couple of months. My timber was shipped from the States today (being sent to Australia) so I'm eagerly going over the plans ready to swing into action when it arrives. I've decided to start with the tail group but noticed a descrepancy in the length of the leading edge of the rudder, compared to the fin, horizontal stab and tailpost. These three added togeather come up 1/2" short of the rudder leading edge. Is this normal ? Mike Green Romsey Australia ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuselage Weight
Date: Sep 19, 2003
Hi Chris...I never really weighed my Heath Tail wheel, I took ACS at there word of 5.2#. When it arrived I was a little disappointed, it is heavy and way overkill for a Piet. I think it is made out of cast steel and it is bullet proof. My plan is to replace the solid 6" wheel with a light weight 4" one and lighten the frame and fork by grinding and drilling some lightening holes. I should be able to get rid of a couple of pounds. What did you use for a tailwheel spring?? I went with a homebuilders speacial from ACS like Mike Cuy's set up, The single leaf seems kind of flimsey so I bought a second leaf but haven't had the heart to add another 1 1/2 pounds back there. I'm going to try shortening the extended part of the single leaf that the wheel attaches to. That will take some of the leverage off of it and maybe stiffen it up enough so I don't need to add the second leaf but then I won't have the dampening affect of the second leaf. Jeeeeesh....light as possible and still strong enough is not as easy as it sounds. Jack Phillips....Hope you're doing OKay with hurricane Isabel...Hopefully you're far enough out of her path........Good luck Buddy.......Ed G. >From: "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: "" >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:32:49 -0500 > > >Hey Ed, > >What is the actual weight of your tail wheel? ACS says it should weigh 5.2 >pounds which is heavier then the Matco at 5 pounds. I would think the >Heath >would be lighter. > >Chris T. >Sacramento, Ca > > >Quoting Ed Grentzer : > > > > > > > > Sounds like we're pretty close DJ...I weighed my Piet ( not GN-1) >last > > week. it's just like yours but with pilot's seat belt and harness, aux. >wing > > > > tank, all instruments, trim system and motor mount but no rudder pedals >or > > fire wall mine came in at 212#. Mine has a Heath tailwheel and Goodyear >6" > > wheels and brakes the motor mount is a bed mount for my Franklin ( a >little > > heavier than a Continental mount). Ed G. > > > > > > >From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> > > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > >To: > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:43:03 -0700 > > > > > > > > >My 90% complete fuselage (as shown in the link below) weighs in at >195lb. > > > > >That includes controls and rudder pedals, J-3 landing gear, aluminum > > >cabanes, Grove wheels and brakes and Matco tailwheel. No instruments, > > >fuel tank, seat belts, or control cables. > > > > > >here's the link that shows the plane in that state of completion > > > > > >http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/07-19-03.htm > > > > > >I'm not sure if I'm on par with what it should be or not.... can >someone > > >else chime in with some fuse numbers?? > > > > > >DJ Vegh > > >N74DV > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: Barry Davis > > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > > > > > > > > > > > >Does anyone have the weight of a bare wood fuselage? > > >Without fittings and landing gear or tail feathers, just the framework >with > > > > >all the plywood and gussets installed, but without seats. > > > > > >We have our second steel fuselage welded up now and the question came >up > > >about weight. Our regular work night is Monday and we plan to take >scales > > >and weigh up a 4130 steel fuselage. I'll post the weight on Tuesday. > > > > > >Barry Davis > > > > > > > > >>This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for >viewing by > > > > >Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more > > >information on an anti-virus email solution, visit > > ><http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. > > > > > > > > > > Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. > > https://broadband.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Engine mount
Date: Sep 16, 2003
Carl, I am working on my engine mount so I can test run the Corvair soon as it is ready. Are you using the mounts as shown in the plans? I am ready to drill for the steel parts to bolt them to the fuselage and on the bottom pieces it shows bending the tab so it will lay on the firewal. I cannot find any reference to whether or not any hole is drill in the tab and if so, what is put in there. Any ideas on this? Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: <Carbarvo(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine mount > > Hey Alex.....Good going on your Piet progress...I didn't realize you were > that far along! I'm setting up my Piet for the Model-A which I already have > sitting in its' mounts. All structure is finished and the fabric is on the tail > feathers, ailerons and the bottom of the left wing. The more I talk to Mark > Langford, the more interested I get in the Corvair engine. I may change engines > after a couple of years experience with the Ford. I've ordered Wm. Wynne's > expensive little book. I am particularly interested right now in where the engine CG > winds up with the engine outfitted just as you have it. I think Wm. Wynne's > Piet was one of the best looking Piets I've seen. If you get over in this > direction, give me a call so I can give you directions to my house...It's real > easy. Keep us posted...Carl Vought, Huntsville, AL. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Engine mount
Date: Sep 16, 2003
Carl, I am working on my engine mount so I can test run the Corvair soon as it is ready. Are you using the mounts as shown in the plans? I am ready to drill for the steel parts to bolt them to the fuselage and on the bottom pieces it shows bending the tab so it will lay on the firewal. I cannot find any reference to whether or not any hole is drill in the tab and if so, what is put in there. Any ideas on this? Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: <Carbarvo(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine mount > > Hey Alex.....Good going on your Piet progress...I didn't realize you were > that far along! I'm setting up my Piet for the Model-A which I already have > sitting in its' mounts. All structure is finished and the fabric is on the tail > feathers, ailerons and the bottom of the left wing. The more I talk to Mark > Langford, the more interested I get in the Corvair engine. I may change engines > after a couple of years experience with the Ford. I've ordered Wm. Wynne's > expensive little book. I am particularly interested right now in where the engine CG > winds up with the engine outfitted just as you have it. I think Wm. Wynne's > Piet was one of the best looking Piets I've seen. If you get over in this > direction, give me a call so I can give you directions to my house...It's real > easy. Keep us posted...Carl Vought, Huntsville, AL. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jon Botsford" <botsford7(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: NO TFR for Crawford and PWG this weekend!!
Date: Sep 19, 2003
This statement was in AOPA's newsletter this morning. George will NOT be at Crawford this weekend! Y'all come to the Low & Slow Fly-In at McGregor Executive Airport, McGregor, Texxas (Waco area) if you can. If not, we will be thinking of you while we look at those Piets and other Low & Slow aircraft while eating that good fish. Jon Botsford A LOOK AT UPCOMING TFRs With the presidential campaign season well under way, AOPA warns pilots to be especially mindful of 60-nautical-mile-diameter presidential and smaller vice presidential movement temporary flight restrictions (TFRs). Based on AOPA's best information, President Bush will be at his retreat at Camp David, Maryland, through Sunday, September 21. He is slated to be in New York City, September 23 through 24, and back at Camp David, September 26 through 27. Check AOPA Online for the latest on these restrictions. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 19, 2003
Subject: Re: NO TFR for Crawford and PWG this weekend!!
Jon, Down to the wire. My IP declined so I'm left without authority to fly to the fly in. Consequencies would be too severe if I risked a solo flight over there today and return Sat. I've waited patiently this long and am "chicken" to take the risk. Worse thing is I went back on my word which I value highly. Guess I'll just have to settle with this ole La speckled trout almandine and shrimp creole and dream of your bar b q catfishes. Please try and keep me as a friend. Corky in beautiful VFR La ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: rc planes
Date: Sep 19, 2003
Thanks Gary. speaking of RC planes, I started a new RC project 3 weeks ago. A 25% scale '46 Taylorcraft BC12D. 109" wingspan (9 feet!) powered by a 26cc weed wacker engine with 18" prop. About 70% complete and hoping to fly it within 3 or 4 weeks. Just need to finish the left wing panel and then cover it. pics, if anyone is interested, can be seen here: http://www.imagedv.com/taylorcraft/ DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary M. Colwill" <g.colwill3(at)verizon.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight > > I just want to let you know, Mr. Vegh, that I REALLY appreciate the pictures > on your website. Pictures really are worth a thousand words and, since I'm > new to woodworking, just staring at your work for awhile helps the words in > the books I've bought become more clear. > > By the way, I have built one R/C aircraft (a lazy bee converted into a > Gyrobee...fun!), and I can tell that your experience in that arena has > probably had a direct influence on your building technique for the > full-sized aircraft - the processes seem remarkably similar. > > Thanks again and keep them coming! > > Gary C > Chino, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight > > > Norm, > > get yourself a set of Pony strap clamps.... maybe 3 or 4 of them. They came > in EXTREMELY handy when I joined my fuselage sides. > > you can see some detail photos of of my ship during that process here: > > http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-24-02.htm > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <NormDecou(at)aol.com> > To: > Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight > > > > > > Hi Barry, > > I am just getting ready to join my two fuselage sides now. It is an > extended > > fuselage. If you like I will e-mail you the weight in a week or two when > I > > finish the assembly. > > Norm and Adrienne Decou > > NormDecou(at)aol.com > > Just in the process of making sure that everything is square and > symmetrical > > before I glue the two fuselage halves together. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2003
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: second leaf spring is good
Ed G. and others using leaf springs/tailwheels on your Piets. With the all aluminum homebuilder's special tailwheel I have from aircraft spruce I tried on leaf at first and it was too weak and slapped around too much back there. (the steering cables slapped the bottom of the belly.) Our IA had used leaf and he reasoned that should the first (longer) spring ever break you have the second leaf to help keep your tailwheel from bashing up into your rudder. The second leaf was re-shaped (cold in a big old vise like Bingelis tells how) and drilled (with a masonry drill bit--like the Bingelis books show--very easy) and made a great improvement over the ground ride. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2003
From: "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Re: Fuselage Weight
Ed, For my tail wheel spring I am planing on going to the auto junk yard and find two leaf springs about 1 1/2 inches wide by 1/4 inch thick then follow the instructions in Tony Bengalis book to build my own. Would you mind telling me how long the Homebuilt special is and approximate angle of the bend. I may even try to build my own tail wheel (not fully castoring (is that a word?)) but I'm not sure about this as I want it to be as light as possible. Wish Matco made a 4" tail wheel assembly. By the way Mike Cuy had to add another leaf to his homebuilders special too. He found the single leaf to soft. If you shorten the spring you will make it stiffer and raise the risk of breaking you tail wheel spring. Chris T. Sacramento, Ca Quoting Ed Grentzer : > > > Hi Chris...I never really weighed my Heath Tail wheel, I took ACS at > there word of 5.2#. When it arrived I was a little disappointed, it is heavy > > and way overkill for a Piet. I think it is made out of cast steel > and it is bullet proof. My plan is to replace the solid 6" wheel with a > light weight 4" one and lighten the frame and fork by grinding and drilling > some lightening holes. I should be able to get rid of a couple of pounds. > What did you use for a tailwheel spring?? I went with a homebuilders > speacial from ACS like Mike Cuy's set up, The single leaf seems kind of > flimsey so I bought a second leaf but haven't had the heart to add another 1 > > 1/2 pounds back there. I'm going to try shortening the extended part of the > single leaf that the wheel attaches to. That will take some of the leverage > > off of it and maybe stiffen it up enough so I don't need to add the second > leaf but then I won't have the dampening affect of the second leaf. > Jeeeeesh....light as possible and still strong enough is not as easy as it > sounds. > Jack Phillips....Hope you're doing OKay with hurricane Isabel...Hopefully > you're far enough out of her path........Good luck Buddy.......Ed G. > > > >From: "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >To: "" > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:32:49 -0500 > > > > > >Hey Ed, > > > >What is the actual weight of your tail wheel? ACS says it should weigh 5.2 > >pounds which is heavier then the Matco at 5 pounds. I would think the > >Heath > >would be lighter. > > > >Chris T. > >Sacramento, Ca > > > > > >Quoting Ed Grentzer : > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like we're pretty close DJ...I weighed my Piet ( not GN-1) > >last > > > week. it's just like yours but with pilot's seat belt and harness, aux. > >wing > > > > > > tank, all instruments, trim system and motor mount but no rudder pedals > >or > > > fire wall mine came in at 212#. Mine has a Heath tailwheel and Goodyear > >6" > > > wheels and brakes the motor mount is a bed mount for my Franklin ( a > >little > > > heavier than a Continental mount). Ed G. > > > > > > > > > >From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> > > > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > >To: > > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:43:03 -0700 > > > > > > > > > > > >My 90% complete fuselage (as shown in the link below) weighs in at > >195lb. > > > > > > >That includes controls and rudder pedals, J-3 landing gear, aluminum > > > >cabanes, Grove wheels and brakes and Matco tailwheel. No instruments, > > > >fuel tank, seat belts, or control cables. > > > > > > > >here's the link that shows the plane in that state of completion > > > > > > > >http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/07-19-03.htm > > > > > > > >I'm not sure if I'm on par with what it should be or not.... can > >someone > > > >else chime in with some fuse numbers?? > > > > > > > >DJ Vegh > > > >N74DV > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: Barry Davis > > > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Does anyone have the weight of a bare wood fuselage? > > > >Without fittings and landing gear or tail feathers, just the framework > >with > > > > > > >all the plywood and gussets installed, but without seats. > > > > > > > >We have our second steel fuselage welded up now and the question came > >up > > > >about weight. Our regular work night is Monday and we plan to take > >scales > > > >and weigh up a 4130 steel fuselage. I'll post the weight on Tuesday. > > > > > > > >Barry Davis > > > > > > > > > > > >>This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for > >viewing by > > > > > > >Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more > > > >information on an anti-virus email solution, visit > > > ><http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. > > > https://broadband.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2003
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuselage Weight
take a look at the sonex tailwheel system. a titanium rod with wheel clevis on the end. super light and may improve handling performance Del --- wrote: > > > Ed, For my tail wheel spring I am planing on going > to the auto junk yard and > find two leaf springs about 1 1/2 inches wide by > 1/4 inch thick then follow > the instructions in Tony Bengalis book to build my > own. Would you mind telling > me how long the Homebuilt special is and approximate > angle of the bend. I may > even try to build my own tail wheel (not fully > castoring (is that a word?)) but > I'm not sure about this as I want it to be as light > as possible. Wish Matco > made a 4" tail wheel assembly. > > By the way Mike Cuy had to add another leaf to his > homebuilders special too. > He found the single leaf to soft. If you shorten > the spring you will make it > stiffer and raise the risk of breaking you tail > wheel spring. > > Chris T. > Sacramento, Ca > > > Quoting Ed Grentzer : > > Grentzer" > > > > > > Hi Chris...I never really weighed my Heath Tail > wheel, I took ACS at > > there word of 5.2#. When it arrived I was a little > disappointed, it is heavy > > > > and way overkill for a Piet. I think it is made > out of cast steel > > and it is bullet proof. My plan is to replace the > solid 6" wheel with a > > light weight 4" one and lighten the frame and fork > by grinding and drilling > > some lightening holes. I should be able to get rid > of a couple of pounds. > > What did you use for a tailwheel spring?? I went > with a homebuilders > > speacial from ACS like Mike Cuy's set up, The > single leaf seems kind of > > flimsey so I bought a second leaf but haven't had > the heart to add another 1 > > > > 1/2 pounds back there. I'm going to try shortening > the extended part of the > > single leaf that the wheel attaches to. That will > take some of the leverage > > > > off of it and maybe stiffen it up enough so I > don't need to add the second > > leaf but then I won't have the dampening affect of > the second leaf. > > Jeeeeesh....light as possible and still strong > enough is not as easy as it > > sounds. > > Jack Phillips....Hope you're doing OKay with > hurricane Isabel...Hopefully > > you're far enough out of her path........Good luck > Buddy.......Ed G. > > > > > > >From: "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> > > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > >To: "" > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:32:49 -0500 > > > > > > > > > >Hey Ed, > > > > > >What is the actual weight of your tail wheel? ACS > says it should weigh 5.2 > > >pounds which is heavier then the Matco at 5 > pounds. I would think the > > >Heath > > >would be lighter. > > > > > >Chris T. > > >Sacramento, Ca > > > > > > > > >Quoting Ed Grentzer : > > > > Grentzer" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like we're pretty close DJ...I > weighed my Piet ( not GN-1) > > >last > > > > week. it's just like yours but with pilot's > seat belt and harness, aux. > > >wing > > > > > > > > tank, all instruments, trim system and motor > mount but no rudder pedals > > >or > > > > fire wall mine came in at 212#. Mine has a > Heath tailwheel and Goodyear > > >6" > > > > wheels and brakes the motor mount is a bed > mount for my Franklin ( a > > >little > > > > heavier than a Continental mount). Ed G. > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> > > > > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > > >To: > > > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > > > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:43:03 -0700 > > > > > > Vegh" > > > > > > > > > >My 90% complete fuselage (as shown in the > link below) weighs in at > > >195lb. > > > > > > > > >That includes controls and rudder pedals, J-3 > landing gear, aluminum > > > > >cabanes, Grove wheels and brakes and Matco > tailwheel. No instruments, > > > > >fuel tank, seat belts, or control cables. > > > > > > > > > >here's the link that shows the plane in that > state of completion > > > > > > > > > > >http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/07-19-03.htm > > > > > > > > > >I'm not sure if I'm on par with what it > should be or not.... can > > >someone > > > > >else chime in with some fuse numbers?? > > > > > > > > > >DJ Vegh > > > > >N74DV > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: Barry Davis > > > > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > > > > > > > > > > Davis" > > > > > > > > > > > > >Does anyone have the weight of a bare wood > fuselage? > > > > >Without fittings and landing gear or tail > feathers, just the framework > > >with > > > > > > > > >all the plywood and gussets installed, but > without seats. > > > > > > > > > >We have our second steel fuselage welded up > now and the question came > > >up > > > > >about weight. Our regular work night is > Monday and we plan to take > > >scales > > > > >and weigh up a 4130 steel fuselage. I'll post > the weight on Tuesday. > > > > > > > > > >Barry Davis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>This email has been scanned for known > viruses and made safe for > > >viewing by > > > > > > > > >Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web > hosting provider. For more > > > > >information on an anti-virus email solution, > visit > > > > ><http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low > as $29.95. > > > > https://broadband.msn.com > > > > > === message truncated === ===== Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" __________________________________ http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: Fuselage Weight/leaf springs
Date: Sep 19, 2003
There was some talk on this list a few months ago that Corvette used a fiberglass leaf spring for some years. I did a little internet searching and was not able to find any information. Does anyone know about these? Seems they may be just the thing for a Piet. Skip >Ed, For my tail wheel spring I am planing on going to the auto junk yard and >find two leaf springs about 1 1/2 inches wide by 1/4 inch thick then follow >the instructions in Tony Bengalis book to build my own. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Textor" <jack(at)personnelincorporated.com>
Subject: rc planes
Date: Sep 19, 2003
DJ Sounds like a great model. If I could offer a caution....I built a Senior Telemaster, which was about the same size. The first flight was almost its last. With the large wing, it had warped just a little bit. When I got it down I could barley see the warp. Check yours closely and good luck! PS I have your Piet picture set as my background, nice color scheme! Jack RV8 tail and wings done Pietenpol plans, still thinking about starting ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuselage Weight
Date: Sep 19, 2003
Hi Chris...I know what you mean about shortening the spring and the chances of breakage.....I know I'm going to have to go with two leaves or is it leafs???? I just hate to admit it to myself. The homebuilders special is 15" long by 1/4" X 1 1/2" and has a about a 40 degree bend right in the middle. It would be really easy to copy following Tony B's book and mine looks like it belongs on a Piet just the way it came from ACS. Several years ago at one of Sun & Fun's booths I saw several small used aluminum tailwheel forks that would be perfect for a Piet if they were strong enough. I have no Idea what they came off of but I wish I had bought one just to try, They were really light.... I'm going to seriously look for one this year. Anyone out there know what they might have come off of ? Ed G. >From: "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: "" >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight >Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:53:41 -0500 > > >Ed, For my tail wheel spring I am planing on going to the auto junk yard >and >find two leaf springs about 1 1/2 inches wide by 1/4 inch thick then >follow >the instructions in Tony Bengalis book to build my own. Would you mind >telling >me how long the Homebuilt special is and approximate angle of the bend. I >may >even try to build my own tail wheel (not fully castoring (is that a word?)) >but >I'm not sure about this as I want it to be as light as possible. Wish >Matco >made a 4" tail wheel assembly. > >By the way Mike Cuy had to add another leaf to his homebuilders special >too. >He found the single leaf to soft. If you shorten the spring you will make >it >stiffer and raise the risk of breaking you tail wheel spring. > >Chris T. >Sacramento, Ca > > > Quoting Ed Grentzer : > > > > > > > > Hi Chris...I never really weighed my Heath Tail wheel, I took ACS at > > there word of 5.2#. When it arrived I was a little disappointed, it is >heavy > > > > and way overkill for a Piet. I think it is made out of cast steel > > and it is bullet proof. My plan is to replace the solid 6" wheel with a > > light weight 4" one and lighten the frame and fork by grinding and >drilling > > some lightening holes. I should be able to get rid of a couple of >pounds. > > What did you use for a tailwheel spring?? I went with a homebuilders > > speacial from ACS like Mike Cuy's set up, The single leaf seems kind of > > flimsey so I bought a second leaf but haven't had the heart to add >another 1 > > > > 1/2 pounds back there. I'm going to try shortening the extended part of >the > > single leaf that the wheel attaches to. That will take some of the >leverage > > > > off of it and maybe stiffen it up enough so I don't need to add the >second > > leaf but then I won't have the dampening affect of the second leaf. > > Jeeeeesh....light as possible and still strong enough is not as easy as >it > > sounds. > > Jack Phillips....Hope you're doing OKay with hurricane >Isabel...Hopefully > > you're far enough out of her path........Good luck Buddy.......Ed G. > > > > > > >From: "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> > > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > >To: "" > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:32:49 -0500 > > > > > > > > >Hey Ed, > > > > > >What is the actual weight of your tail wheel? ACS says it should weigh >5.2 > > >pounds which is heavier then the Matco at 5 pounds. I would think the > > >Heath > > >would be lighter. > > > > > >Chris T. > > >Sacramento, Ca > > > > > > > > >Quoting Ed Grentzer : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like we're pretty close DJ...I weighed my Piet ( not >GN-1) > > >last > > > > week. it's just like yours but with pilot's seat belt and harness, >aux. > > >wing > > > > > > > > tank, all instruments, trim system and motor mount but no rudder >pedals > > >or > > > > fire wall mine came in at 212#. Mine has a Heath tailwheel and >Goodyear > > >6" > > > > wheels and brakes the motor mount is a bed mount for my Franklin ( a > > >little > > > > heavier than a Continental mount). Ed G. > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> > > > > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > > >To: > > > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > > > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:43:03 -0700 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >My 90% complete fuselage (as shown in the link below) weighs in at > > >195lb. > > > > > > > > >That includes controls and rudder pedals, J-3 landing gear, >aluminum > > > > >cabanes, Grove wheels and brakes and Matco tailwheel. No >instruments, > > > > >fuel tank, seat belts, or control cables. > > > > > > > > > >here's the link that shows the plane in that state of completion > > > > > > > > > >http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/07-19-03.htm > > > > > > > > > >I'm not sure if I'm on par with what it should be or not.... can > > >someone > > > > >else chime in with some fuse numbers?? > > > > > > > > > >DJ Vegh > > > > >N74DV > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: Barry Davis > > > > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Does anyone have the weight of a bare wood fuselage? > > > > >Without fittings and landing gear or tail feathers, just the >framework > > >with > > > > > > > > >all the plywood and gussets installed, but without seats. > > > > > > > > > >We have our second steel fuselage welded up now and the question >came > > >up > > > > >about weight. Our regular work night is Monday and we plan to take > > >scales > > > > >and weigh up a 4130 steel fuselage. I'll post the weight on >Tuesday. > > > > > > > > > >Barry Davis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for > > >viewing by > > > > > > > > >Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For >more > > > > >information on an anti-virus email solution, visit > > > > ><http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. > > > > https://broadband.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: second leaf spring is good
Date: Sep 19, 2003
Thanks for the input about your experience with the tail spring Mike. I guess that does it....I'll go home and put the second leaf on it. When I weighed my Fuselage last week I set the second leaf on top the tail so I guess I knew deep down that it was going to end up on the plane. Ed G. >From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: second leaf spring is good >Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:48:02 -0400 > > > >Ed G. and others using leaf springs/tailwheels on your Piets. With the >all aluminum homebuilder's special tailwheel I have from aircraft spruce I >tried on leaf at first and it was too weak and slapped around too much back >there. (the steering cables slapped the bottom of the belly.) Our IA had >used leaf and he reasoned that should the first (longer) spring ever break >you have the second leaf to help keep your tailwheel from bashing up into >your rudder. The second leaf was re-shaped (cold in a big old vise like >Bingelis tells how) and drilled (with a masonry drill bit--like the >Bingelis books show--very easy) and made a great improvement over the >ground ride. > >Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Fuselage Weight/leaf springs
Date: Sep 19, 2003
My 93 Buick Regal uses a fibre-glass arch for the rear spring. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight/leaf springs > There was some talk on this list a few months ago that Corvette used a > fiberglass leaf spring for some years. > I did a little internet searching and was not able to find any information. > Does anyone know about these? Seems they may be just the thing for a Piet. > Skip > Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > - > >Ed, For my tail wheel spring I am planing on going to the auto junk yard > and > >find two leaf springs about 1 1/2 inches wide by 1/4 inch thick then > follow > >the instructions in Tony Bengalis book to build my own. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: fuselage weight
Date: Sep 19, 2003
Thanks Norm I was beginning to think that no one had ever weighed their fuselage in the boat stage. I'll post the steel weight on Tuesday. BED ----- Original Message ----- From: <NormDecou(at)aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight > > Hi Barry, > I am just getting ready to join my two fuselage sides now. It is an extended > fuselage. If you like I will e-mail you the weight in a week or two when I > finish the assembly. > Norm and Adrienne Decou > NormDecou(at)aol.com > Just in the process of making sure that everything is square and symmetrical > before I glue the two fuselage halves together. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: tailwheel weight
Date: Sep 19, 2003
I have a Matco unit. It's nice but feels like it's heavier than it needs to be. I've thought about doing some lightening mods to it. I'd imagine it could be milled and at least a 1/2 lb or more shaved. 1/2 lb at the tail means 2lb saved at the nose! DJ = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Hannan" <isp.inc(at)verizon.net>
Subject: my piet pictures
Date: Sep 19, 2003
I posted some pictures of my Peit project, I used the planes out of the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual and it will be A powered. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID147 Ken Hannan Temecula, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Hannan" <isp.inc(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: my piet pictures
Date: Sep 19, 2003
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=147 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Hannan" <isp.inc(at)verizon.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: my piet pictures > > I posted some pictures of my Peit project, I used the planes out of the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual and it will be A powered. > > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID147 > > Ken Hannan > Temecula, CA > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2003
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: $$$$$$$ oops!
hello list i am writing this to hopefully save someone using vi kepplers prop hub a few hundred dollars. my father took his crank shaft and prop hub to a machine shop to have the prop shaft threaded for the crank and prop hub nut, it got expensive when the machinist, who in all fairness was going by bernies blue print bored the hole in the hub out to 1.5in. this in turn bored right into the counterbores for the bolts that hold the hub to the crankshaft. so make sure if you drop off your parts at a shop tell them NOT to bore the center hole of the hub to the specs of 1.5 shown on the plans. p.s. does anyone know of another one of Vi Keplers prop hubs for sale???? Shad Bell __________________________________ http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Fuselage Weight
Date: Sep 19, 2003
Thanks, Ed. Isabel wasn't too bad here. The eye went east of us. Highest winds we had were about 65 kts. and we got about 2" of rain (driest hurricane I've ever been through). I had one 12" pine come down across my driveway (took out a section of the fence around my pasture, too), but other than that I had no damage. Good news was, I got to get off work for it. The bad news was, I lost power so couldn't work on the Pietenpol too easily. Jack Phillips Drying out in Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- Jack Phillips....Hope you're doing OKay with hurricane Isabel...Hopefully you're far enough out of her path........Good luck Buddy.......Ed G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tommy & Carolyn" <TommyandCarolyn(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: 5th Annual Allen Parish Fly-In
Date: Sep 19, 2003
Just a reminder, the 5th annual Allen Parish Fly-In Oakdale, LA is the last weekend of this month, that's the 26, 27 & 28. It's grown every year to over 200 aircraft, a mixed bag, something for everyone. Camping, food & Cajun music rounds it out, your sure to have a good time. Contact Joel Johnson 318-215-0090 or 337-639-4328. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Cockpit Coamings
Date: Sep 20, 2003
Hi Pieters, I'm making the cockpit coamings now and am having trouble figuring out the proper curve to cut the leather covers for the padding. My cockpit cutouts are curved so the padding is one continuous piece, rather than made in three pieces like many Piets do. Any ideas? I've wasted some rather expensive leather before I got smart enough to use scrap fabric for the patterns. Jack Phillips Scratching my head in North Carolina ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Cockpit Coamings
Date: Sep 21, 2003
Jack, I always wanted a round "hole", so I built it so the cowlings over each cockpit is one piece. After much experimenting, I came up with a pretty good, I think. Most of the things that I had tried looked too big and bulky. Finally would up by splitting a red airhose longwise and first securing that to the cowl being laced thru holes drilled all the way around. This could pull the hose itself tightly into the curves of the cowl. Then after secure made a long leather piece that I prepunched for hole lacing, and went to town. If you like what I did, I can give you all the dimensions. I had bought by mistake , waxed linen cord to do the rib stitching. But that wasn't what I wanted, so I used that on the cowl lacing. I'll send you a pic via email. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cockpit Coamings > > Hi Pieters, > > I'm making the cockpit coamings now and am having trouble figuring out the > proper curve to cut the leather covers for the padding. My cockpit cutouts > are curved so the padding is one continuous piece, rather than made in three > pieces like many Piets do. Any ideas? I've wasted some rather expensive > leather before I got smart enough to use scrap fabric for the patterns. > > Jack Phillips > > Scratching my head in North Carolina > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Cockpit Coamings
Date: Sep 21, 2003
Jack The nice thing about leather is it can be stretched and formed. Take some of your scrap pieces and try wetting them and forming and stretching. Be patient and wet it several times you can even soak leather in water and work it into shapes. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cockpit Coamings > > Hi Pieters, > > I'm making the cockpit coamings now and am having trouble figuring out the > proper curve to cut the leather covers for the padding. My cockpit cutouts > are curved so the padding is one continuous piece, rather than made in three > pieces like many Piets do. Any ideas? I've wasted some rather expensive > leather before I got smart enough to use scrap fabric for the patterns. > > Jack Phillips > > Scratching my head in North Carolina > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 21, 2003
Subject: Re: Cockpit Coamings
What about sources of suitable leather??? I'd like to explore some options. I have restored a couple of late fifties Jaguar OTS (commonly referred to as "roadsters"). These cars have what they call a "D-Rubber" around the cockpit. This gets covered with a very fine grade of leather. The company I bought it from is now out of business, but the company that took over is:OSJI (Original Specification Jaguar Interiors), 4301 Old State Road 3 North, Muncie, Indiana 47303. Phone 800/338-8034. They will send samples. Their colors are vat died and normally very well controlled....Good luck..Carl Vought ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2003
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] SPAM Filter Could Be Causing Posting Problems
For Some Members...? Dear Listers, Matronics is now utilizing a SPAM filter appliance to filter out the excessive amounts of inappropriate email that bombards the Email List Forums each day. The filter is reporting that over 66% of the email messages sent to Matronics email destinations are of SPAM content and reviewing the logfiles, it would appear to be true. That is indeed great! While the Lists are enjoying the breath of fresh air afforded by the new appliance, I am suspecting that a few legitimate email List posts are being blocked as too, although I can't confirm this. It is difficult to churn through the logfiles looking though thousands of blocked email messages trying to determine if any legitimate List posts were blocked. If you suspect that your posts are accidently being blocked by the SPAM filter appliance, I have created a new Trouble Report web page that will allow you to report your problems directly to me without having to use email. If the SPAM filter is blocking your email address for some reason, then its likely that I wouldn't be able to receive your direct email regarding difficulty in posting. The web form bypasses the incoming email and directs your message directly to me. Please include as much information as possible regarding the problems you are having including any bounced email or email error messages that you may have received back in regard to your posts to the lists. The more information I have about the email you are sending and what the errors you are receiving, the better chance I'll have in hunting down the problem. The Trouble Report Website URL is: http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report/ I apologize for any inconvenience the SPAM filter may be causing you. I will work toward resolving your issues as quickly as possible. Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics EMail List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2003
From: dan john <ballmell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cockpit Coamings
Pardon me for butting in here.I thought I would let you know of the source for leather I used.Our local Goodwill store.Someone had donated a long leather womens coat. I made the caroming (sp) covers in two pieces.One coat did both cockpits for $3.00.John P. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 22, 2003
Subject: Re: Cockpit Coamings
Very very resourceful.....Carl V....Do not arcive ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: fuselage weight
Date: Sep 22, 2003
From the archives several of the listers reported their bare wood fuselages to weigh in at 70 pounds. >From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight >Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:45:09 -0400 > > >Thanks Norm >I was beginning to think that no one had ever weighed their fuselage in the >boat stage. I'll post the steel weight on Tuesday. >BED >----- Original Message ----- >From: <NormDecou(at)aol.com> >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight > > > > > > Hi Barry, > > I am just getting ready to join my two fuselage sides now. It is an >extended > > fuselage. If you like I will e-mail you the weight in a week or two >when >I > > finish the assembly. > > Norm and Adrienne Decou > > NormDecou(at)aol.com > > Just in the process of making sure that everything is square and >symmetrical > > before I glue the two fuselage halves together. > > > > > > Get McAfee virus scanning and cleaning of incoming attachments. Get Hotmail ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2003
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: fuselage weight - setback - McGregor Fly-in
Group, We weighed our Fuselage Friday nite. [230 pounds] It is just about the same level of completion as DJs, (except we have two fuel tanks included). We came out 35 pounds heavier. You may recall ours is the "NEW 40 year-old Piet" recently purchased here in TX. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=141 In the weighed configuration, we have the short BHP 1933 fuselage, on cub-type gear with 800X4 wheels, tires, tubes, & brakes. Center section and cabanes. All control cables and tail feathers with tail wires, and tailwheel installed. Fuselage tank and wing center section tank. No instruments, seats already installed. No engine mount. No Fabric. I was relieved that we were no heavier than that. I suspected we would come in heavy, since the fuse is built heavy. The builder used corner blocks in addition to plywood gussets. I think it also has about 3 coats of spar varnish applied over the years. After our weigh-in, we had a set-back. Having just gotten the rubber on the floor and new bungies installed, we started really looking over the gear, and we found it is built crooked. Evidently, the A&P who built the gear was working with one eyeball tied behind his back. The center landing gear Vee is not symmetrical about the centerline of the airplane. It comes together approximately 1.5 inches to the left of center. The attached bungie tubes are about two inches different in length. As a reult, the fuselage sits low on the LH side. SO, we have her back up on sawhorses and plan to totally re build the center vee and shock absorber tubes. Luckily, the axle Vees are pretty much identical. We plan to leave them in tact. We have decided to change the shock absorber design to use springs in stead of bungies. So we'd appreciate any info you guys may have to offer on this design. (Like WHAT SPRINGS TO BUY?) We saw three Piets this weekend at the McGregor Fly-in. IF YOU DIDN'T MAKE IT, YOU MISSED SOME AWESOME CATFISH!!! Bob Siebert brought his new little jewell. What a beautiful Air Camper, Bob. I love that WW1 Jenny-style paint job. Glad you came and hope your trip home was good. I noticed you had a headwind both ways. [Shux: more Piet time in the log.] Lon and I took a bunch of pics of Bob's landing gear and plan to modify ours to be similar. Bob says the spring style gear plans were in an old BPA newsletter, so we are looking for a copy. We also are now convinced to go with the Skytec aluminum wing struts like Bob used. We also poured over Mr. __?___ Vardiman's BHP Air Camper. I was talking to Ms. Vardiman and she told me why their sign said "owner: unknown". She said her husband wouldn't claim it. It is a sight for sore eyes. Since I know that our DAR signed it off, now I have no worries that he'll sign off ours. Kidding aside, it is a solid little Piet, just needs some cosmetic attention. Mr. V says he may re-paint some time. But for now he's having fun flying it. We got a lot of good ideas from looking over Jon Botsfords Franklin powered GN1. We have been thinking about adding a step. [Lon and I are both short]. Jon's Piet had a nice little step we plan to copy, unless Jon has a patent on it. Back home, last night, I laid out the instrument panel on posterboard actual size and will use it for template. Also mocked up a cardboard template for the rear cockpit sheet metal. Not yet sure where the cabanes will be positioned, so I may not make this part until we decide our final position. This affects the point where the aileron cables pass thru the sheet metal. Last night, Lon finished making adjustments to the tail brace wire brackets, so now, all the tail feathers are ready for fabric. We will probably leave them installed until we hang the wings and dry-rig all the controls. Its a good thing to have Fly-ins once in awhile to get a boost and re-charge the adrenaline for making parts. Corky and Chuck...we missed you...hope you can make it next year. Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 22, 2003
Subject: Re: fuselage weight - setback - McGregor Fly-in
Thanks Terry, Great report. Makes me more ashamed I didn't sneak over. You know who in La where Isabelle and I had some delish fried shrimp and oysters today. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Cockpit Coamings
Date: Sep 22, 2003
My source was the back of my closet. Had since the early 80's, a very out of style tan leather jacket. Never had the heart to throw it out. When it came time for the cockpit, I knew it was fate smiling down on me. I'm really happy how it came out. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: <Carbarvo(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cockpit Coamings > > What about sources of suitable leather??? I'd like to explore some options. I > have restored a couple of late fifties Jaguar OTS (commonly referred to as > "roadsters"). These cars have what they call a "D-Rubber" around the cockpit. > This gets covered with a very fine grade of leather. The company I bought it > from is now out of business, but the company that took over is:OSJI (Original > Specification Jaguar Interiors), 4301 Old State Road 3 North, Muncie, Indiana > 47303. Phone 800/338-8034. They will send samples. Their colors are vat died and > normally very well controlled....Good luck..Carl Vought > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Cockpit Coamings
Date: Sep 22, 2003
Don't think this want thru, so I'll resend it. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cockpit Coamings > Jack, > I always wanted a round "hole", so I built it so the cowlings over each > cockpit is one piece. After much experimenting, I came up with a pretty > good, I think. Most of the things that I had tried looked too big and > bulky. Finally would up by splitting a red airhose longwise and first > securing that to the cowl being laced thru holes drilled all the way around. > This could pull the hose itself tightly into the curves of the cowl. Then > after secure made a long leather piece that I prepunched for hole lacing, > and went to town. > If you like what I did, I can give you all the dimensions. > I had bought by mistake , waxed linen cord to do the rib stitching. But > that wasn't what I wanted, so I used that on the cowl lacing. > I'll send you a pic via email. > walt evans > NX140DL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> > To: "Pietenpol-List" > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2003 8:28 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cockpit Coamings > > > > > > > Hi Pieters, > > > > I'm making the cockpit coamings now and am having trouble figuring out the > > proper curve to cut the leather covers for the padding. My cockpit > cutouts > > are curved so the padding is one continuous piece, rather than made in > three > > pieces like many Piets do. Any ideas? I've wasted some rather expensive > > leather before I got smart enough to use scrap fabric for the patterns. > > > > Jack Phillips > > > > Scratching my head in North Carolina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Cockpit Coamings
Date: Sep 22, 2003
There is a booth at Sun n Fun that has full hides in different colors. Hi Quality hides. I believe it is B & B Aircraft Parts. If you are in the west I know of a few indian trading posts with good hides also. Doug Bryant showed me a shop in Wichita, KS. that sells remnants from the Beech factory also. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Carbarvo(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cockpit Coamings > > What about sources of suitable leather??? I'd like to explore some options. I > have restored a couple of late fifties Jaguar OTS (commonly referred to as > "roadsters"). These cars have what they call a "D-Rubber" around the cockpit. > This gets covered with a very fine grade of leather. The company I bought it > from is now out of business, but the company that took over is:OSJI (Original > Specification Jaguar Interiors), 4301 Old State Road 3 North, Muncie, Indiana > 47303. Phone 800/338-8034. They will send samples. Their colors are vat died and > normally very well controlled....Good luck..Carl Vought > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 22, 2003
Subject: Re: fuselage weight - setback - McGregor Fly-in
I sure wish I could have made the McGregor Fly-In, but all I had was the weekend to make that flight. The ol' Piet just ain't that quick !! I sure hope I can make it there next year. I did, however, have a good flight to Bartlesville OK on Saturday, for the 47th Annual Fly In. Bucking a headwind all the way there, the GPS was showing a ground speed of 55mph, with an indicated speed of almost 70. Lots of barran land between here and there, but still maintained about 1000 agl. Those hidden spider webs just gives me the hiebie jiebie's. I didn't fly direct, either. Did a couple of laps around my buddy's house for some pictures, zigged here, zagged there, lap around a lake here and there searching for bikini's, thermals tossed 'er around a little but not too bad. When I got to my tie down spot, I was greeted by a couple of Piet drivers, but they didn't have their planes there. They are from OK City, but I didn't write their names down. That's the only way I remember anybody's name. There were lots of planes there, probably over 100, but mine was the only Piet !! It was almost 100 statuate miles one way, logged 4 hrs down and back, and had a great airplane day!! Chuck Gantzer ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2003
From: "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Re: fuselage weight - setback - McGregor Fly-in
When I get home from work today I can email you a scan the drawing showing the spring assembly that was in the BPA newsletter if you still need it. The springs recommended are Lamina H-56 die springs. The springs are 6" long 2.0"OD 1.0"ID wire diameter 0.225 x 0.350, Max Deflection 30% of free length 1051.20 pounds 1.8" length of deflection. Chris T. Sacramento, Ca Quoting "" : > > Group, > We weighed our Fuselage Friday nite. [230 pounds] It is just about the same > level of completion as DJs, (except we have two fuel tanks included). We > came out 35 pounds heavier. You may recall ours is the "NEW 40 year-old > Piet" recently purchased here in TX. > > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=141 > > In the weighed configuration, we have the short BHP 1933 fuselage, on > cub-type gear with 800X4 wheels, tires, tubes, & brakes. Center section and > cabanes. All control cables and tail feathers with tail wires, and tailwheel > installed. Fuselage tank and wing center section tank. No instruments, > seats already installed. No engine mount. No Fabric. I was relieved that we > were no heavier than that. I suspected we would come in heavy, since the > fuse is built heavy. The builder used corner blocks in addition to plywood > gussets. I think it also has about 3 coats of spar varnish applied over the > years. > > After our weigh-in, we had a set-back. Having just gotten the rubber on the > floor and new bungies installed, we started really looking over the gear, and > we found it is built crooked. Evidently, the A&P who built the gear was > working with one eyeball tied behind his back. The center landing gear Vee > is not symmetrical about the centerline of the airplane. It comes together > approximately 1.5 inches to the left of center. The attached bungie tubes > are about two inches different in length. As a reult, the fuselage sits low > on the LH side. > > SO, we have her back up on sawhorses and plan to totally re build the center > vee and shock absorber tubes. Luckily, the axle Vees are pretty much > identical. We plan to leave them in tact. We have decided to change the > shock absorber design to use springs in stead of bungies. So we'd appreciate > any info you guys may have to offer on this design. (Like WHAT SPRINGS TO > BUY?) > > We saw three Piets this weekend at the McGregor Fly-in. IF YOU DIDN'T MAKE > IT, YOU MISSED SOME AWESOME CATFISH!!! > > Bob Siebert brought his new little jewell. What a beautiful Air Camper, Bob. > I love that WW1 Jenny-style paint job. Glad you came and hope your trip > home was good. I noticed you had a headwind both ways. [Shux: more Piet time > in the log.] Lon and I took a bunch of pics of Bob's landing gear and plan > to modify ours to be similar. Bob says the spring style gear plans were in > an old BPA newsletter, so we are looking for a copy. We also are now > convinced to go with the Skytec aluminum wing struts like Bob used. > > We also poured over Mr. __?___ Vardiman's BHP Air Camper. I was talking to > Ms. Vardiman and she told me why their sign said "owner: unknown". She said > her husband wouldn't claim it. It is a sight for sore eyes. Since I know > that our DAR signed it off, now I have no worries that he'll sign off ours. > Kidding aside, it is a solid little Piet, just needs some cosmetic attention. > Mr. V says he may re-paint some time. But for now he's having fun flying > it. > > We got a lot of good ideas from looking over Jon Botsfords Franklin powered > GN1. We have been thinking about adding a step. [Lon and I are both short]. > Jon's Piet had a nice little step we plan to copy, unless Jon has a patent > on it. > > Back home, last night, I laid out the instrument panel on posterboard actual > size and will use it for template. Also mocked up a cardboard template for > the rear cockpit sheet metal. Not yet sure where the cabanes will be > positioned, so I may not make this part until we decide our final position. > This affects the point where the aileron cables pass thru the sheet metal. > Last night, Lon finished making adjustments to the tail brace wire brackets, > so now, all the tail feathers are ready for fabric. We will probably leave > them installed until we hang the wings and dry-rig all the controls. > > Its a good thing to have Fly-ins once in awhile to get a boost and re-charge > the adrenaline for making parts. Corky and Chuck...we missed you...hope you > can make it next year. > > Terry L. Bowden > ph 254-715-4773 > fax 254-853-3805 > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Steel Fuselage weight
Date: Sep 23, 2003
We finished the third fuselage last night and brought out the scales. The welded 4130 fuselage weighed 31 pounds. This is in the same stage of completion as a wood fuselage with plywood sides and bottom. No firewall and no seats, just the main boat structure with no fittings. I got a few replies from people building the long wood fuselage and their weight is coming in around 70 pounds in this stage of completion. Barry D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 23, 2003
Subject: Re: fuselage weight - setback - McGregor Fly-in
Chris, Sure would like to know if you have a source for these springs as described. Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesJboyer(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 23, 2003
Subject: Re: Steel Fuselage weight
Hi, My wood fuselage (Douglas Fir) , with seat framing, no firewall and without plywood on sides but floor plywood weighs 65 pounds. Sounds like its in the right ballpark. Cheers, Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2003
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: fuselage weight - setback - McGregor Fly-in
One of the local guys here used a $6 John Deere Hay bailer spring not sure what part number. I am also going to contact the Lamina company as well. I will let you guys know what I find out. Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Hannan" <isp.inc(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: fuselage weight - setback - McGregor Fly-in
Date: Sep 23, 2003
Maybe McMaster.com part number 9588K98 would work? ----- Original Message ----- From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight - setback - McGregor Fly-in > > Chris, > > Sure would like to know if you have a source for these springs as described. > > Corky > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Cockpit Coamings
Date: Sep 23, 2003
Carl, I bought an entire cowhide of beautiful soft chocolate brown leather from B&B Aircraft Supply of Kansas City, or Gardiner Kansas (I can't remember their address, I've got their card somewhere) for $125. Seems to be very good quality. Now I just need to figure out the shape I need to cut it. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carbarvo(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cockpit Coamings What about sources of suitable leather??? I'd like to explore some options. I have restored a couple of late fifties Jaguar OTS (commonly referred to as "roadsters"). These cars have what they call a "D-Rubber" around the cockpit. This gets covered with a very fine grade of leather. The company I bought it from is now out of business, but the company that took over is:OSJI (Original Specification Jaguar Interiors), 4301 Old State Road 3 North, Muncie, Indiana 47303. Phone 800/338-8034. They will send samples. Their colors are vat died and normally very well controlled....Good luck..Carl Vought ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: Steel Fuselage weight
Date: Sep 23, 2003
My plans are prety old - about 30 years. I don't think they show a metal fuselage,, at least not a short one for use with the Ford. Is one available? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Barry Davis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel Fuselage weight We finished the third fuselage last night and brought out the scales. The welded 4130 fuselage weighed 31 pounds. This is in the same stage of completion as a wood fuselage with plywood sides and bottom. No firewall and no seats, just the main boat structure with no fittings. I got a few replies from people building the long wood fuselage and their weight is coming in around 70 pounds in this stage of completion. Barry D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 23, 2003
Subject: Re: Steel Fuselage weight
Jim, In answer to several who requested fuse weights I went to the shop and weighed Repiet. Spruce framing as per plans, no firewall ( 27 in instead of 24 in) 1/8 ply sides, birch 1/4 marine fir bottom Front seatback w/ supports Complete control column w/ control ears, two control sticks and 3 ft torque tube Rudder bar in front w/ supports Pedals and brake cyls with supports for rear pilot Two 1 1/2 in tailwheel springs Tailwheel assembly w/ wheel Total 62 lbs Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Hannan" <isp.inc(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Steel Fuselage weight
Date: Sep 23, 2003
My Piet fuselage weights 60 lbs with front seat and rear seat and no firewall and no controls http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=147 Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel Fuselage weight > > Jim, > > In answer to several who requested fuse weights I went to the shop and > weighed Repiet. > > Spruce framing as per plans, no firewall ( 27 in instead of 24 in) > 1/8 ply sides, birch > 1/4 marine fir bottom > Front seatback w/ supports > Complete control column w/ control ears, two control sticks and 3 ft torque > tube > Rudder bar in front w/ supports > Pedals and brake cyls with supports for rear pilot > Two 1 1/2 in tailwheel springs > Tailwheel assembly w/ wheel > > Total 62 lbs > > Corky > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2003
From: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Steel Fuselage weight
Yes there is, in the original Flying and Glider manual, 1932, p12, plus text. Available as reprints from the EAA. Clif. > > My plans are prety old - about 30 years. I don't think they show a metal > fuselage,, at least not a short one for use with the Ford. Is one > available? > > Bob > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: test
Date: Sep 24, 2003
walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Seibert Bob-r18643 <Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com>
Subject: Springs and landing gear
Date: Sep 24, 2003
Terry, I tried emailing you and the address bounced. I found a spring source, the plans for the spring struts and the drawing for the landing gear jig. Email me offlist and I will get you a copy of this stuff. I don't have a scanner so if someone with a scanner wants to contact me maybe we can get a copy of this stuff on a web page somewhere. Regards, Bob Seibert NX23TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2003
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Springs and landing gear
I don't have a scanner so if someone with a scanner wants to contact me maybe we can get a copy of this stuff on a web page somewhere. Regards, Bob Seibert NX23TX I can do it if you want..... 2508 Pickwick Ln Plano, TX 75093-3534 Jim in Plano....where there's a Pietenpol Air Camper spar attached to a center section....the angle of the root end of the spar (.7 degrees or there abouts) matched up with the center section PERFECTLY and achieves a nice mild dihedral of 2" at the wing tip...... <http://www.mykitplane.com/TaxiWay/TheHangar/PlaneManager/buildLog.cfm?BuildLogID=547&PlaneID=52&Menu=BuildLog>.....wooohoooo!!!!!! HUGE MILESTONE!!!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Steel Fuselage weight
Date: Sep 23, 2003
Yes, yours sounds REAL good. Your's already has the seat and still 5 below the average. bed ----- Original Message ----- From: <JamesJboyer(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel Fuselage weight > > Hi, > > My wood fuselage (Douglas Fir) , with seat framing, no firewall and without > plywood on sides but floor plywood weighs 65 pounds. Sounds like its in the > right ballpark. > > Cheers, Jim > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 2003
Subject: Re: Springs and landing gear
A company that specializes in springs (including custom wound springs) is Lee Spring Company, 1462 62nd street, Brooklyn, NY 11219, 718/236-2222, http://www.leespring.com/ ..........Carl Vought ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 2003
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 09/23/03
In a message dated 9/23/03 11:57:04 PM, pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: << From: JamesJboyer(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel Fuselage weight >> Jim, my Fir fuselage, with seats,instrument panels, turtleback,various metal fittings, weighed in at 71 pounds. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 2003
Subject: Pietenpol- Wittman
In a message dated 9/24/03 8:32:32 AM Central Daylight Time, Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes: << Guys--- Have you noticed that there is a general trend with Pietenpol and GN-1 builders that gravitates them toward building a Wittman Tailwind as their follow-on project ? >> Hey Mike, I've noticed that !! The Wittman Tailwind is my next project. I have all the ribs done, spars done, tubing bought from Airparts Inc. as well as some other stuff I'm planning on using a Lycoming O-320. If it is built clean, light, and simple, the guys on the Tailwind List says she should cruise about 180 mph !!! Steve Wittman and Bernard Pietenpol had a lot in common in their designs philosophy. There is a picture of them together in the Wittman Hanger, at Oshkosh. The main difference is that Steve had speed in mind. His Buttercup design, however, had slow speed in mind, with the leading edge flap, that worked in unison with the regular flaps. It drooped the leading edge. The Buttercup also comes in under the umbrella of the Sport Pilot Rules. There is a guy that now sells plans (Earl Luce), and parts for the Buttercup. http://www.luceair.com/ Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 2003
Subject: Milestone
In a message dated 9/24/03 11:20:35 AM Central Daylight Time, jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes: << Jim in Plano....where there's a Pietenpol Air Camper spar attached to a center section....the angle of the root end of the spar (.7 degrees or there abouts) matched up with the center section PERFECTLY and achieves a nice mild dihedral of 2" at the wing tip...... <http://www.mykitplane.com/TaxiWay/TheHangar/PlaneManager/buildLog.cfm?BuildLogID=547&PlaneID=52&Menu=BuildLog>.....woooho ooo!!!!!! HUGE MILESTONE!!!!! >> Hey Jim, I love hearing about all these milestones !! However, your link didn't work...it just sent me to the home page. Oh, er, maybe you didn't notice the plans...there is NO dihedral in a Pietenpol ;) I think maybe Mike Cuy overlooked this also... Chuck G. just trying to stir it up ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 2003
Subject: Ch 1161 Newsletter
Hey John, Thanks for the copy of the newsletter you put out!! You do a great job on it, with color photo's and all. And now, I have another of my articles in print !! Way Cool !! Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al Latham" <geebeed(at)grm.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol- Wittman
Date: Sep 24, 2003
Airparts, Chuck were are you from? Al Latham Lathrop, MO. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol- Wittman > > In a message dated 9/24/03 8:32:32 AM Central Daylight Time, > Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes: > > << Guys--- Have you noticed that there is a general trend with Pietenpol and > GN-1 builders that gravitates them toward building a Wittman Tailwind as > their follow-on project ? >> > > Hey Mike, > I've noticed that !! The Wittman Tailwind is my next project. I have all > the ribs done, spars done, tubing bought from Airparts Inc. as well as some > other stuff I'm planning on using a Lycoming O-320. If it is built clean, > light, and simple, the guys on the Tailwind List says she should cruise about 180 > mph !!! Steve Wittman and Bernard Pietenpol had a lot in common in their > designs philosophy. There is a picture of them together in the Wittman Hanger, > at Oshkosh. The main difference is that Steve had speed in mind. His > Buttercup design, however, had slow speed in mind, with the leading edge flap, that > worked in unison with the regular flaps. It drooped the leading edge. The > Buttercup also comes in under the umbrella of the Sport Pilot Rules. There is a > guy that now sells plans (Earl Luce), and parts for the Buttercup. > http://www.luceair.com/ > > Chuck G. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Milestone
Date: Sep 24, 2003
Dihedral, schmihedral! I'll have a bit of washout too!!! SO THERE!!!! :-) Somehow I included "woohoo" in the link....so just delete the part after "Log>" and it should work. Worked fine on mine but maybe my system is so used to "woohoo's" and such silliness that it just tolerates me and moves on..... Try this: <http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=547&Pl aneID=52> I should probably spare everyone TONIGHT'S milestone..... I probably should but I won't........so here it is: BOTH left side spars bolted on at the root, propped up on the ends with two ribs slid on and some string drag wires (or whatever those X brace wire thingys are called).....it looks really cool..... I've written about 15 different descriptions of how wonderful this is and nothing really describes it.......if you've done it, you'll know. If you haven't yet, you're going to be amazed...... Jim in Plano ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Milestone > > In a message dated 9/24/03 11:20:35 AM Central Daylight Time, > jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes: > > << Jim in Plano....where there's a Pietenpol Air Camper spar attached to a > center section....the angle of the root end of the spar (.7 degrees or there > abouts) matched up with the center section PERFECTLY and achieves a nice mild > dihedral of 2" at the wing tip...... > <http://www.mykitplane.com/TaxiWay/TheHangar/PlaneManager/buildLog.cfm?Build LogID=547&PlaneID=52&Menu=BuildLog>.....woooho > ooo!!!!!! HUGE MILESTONE!!!!! >> > > Hey Jim, > I love hearing about all these milestones !! However, your link didn't > work...it just sent me to the home page. > Oh, er, maybe you didn't notice the plans...there is NO dihedral in a > Pietenpol ;) > I think maybe Mike Cuy overlooked this also... > > Chuck G. > just trying to stir it up > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Date: Sep 25, 2003
Hello,] New member to your discussion group here. My first question is... Where would you guys recommends I go for Model A gauges; tach, water temp, oil temp etc. And what kinds have worked for you. I'd love to find some modern mechanical gauges with a vintage look, but so many new suppliers are only making electric gauges. Any thoughts? Also, know anyone who wants to make a Piet radiator? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Ch 1161 Newsletter
Date: Sep 25, 2003
----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ch 1161 Newsletter ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ THANK YOU CHUCK FOR THE ARTICLE, I'LL LOOK FOR MORE FROM YOU! John, Chapter 1161 Newsletter Lackey ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Hey John, > Thanks for the copy of the newsletter you put out!! You do a great job on > it, with color photo's and all. And now, I have another of my articles in print > !! Way Cool !! > > Chuck G. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Dihedral
Date: Sep 25, 2003
From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com>
> Oh, er, maybe you didn't notice the plans...there is NO dihedral in a > Pietenpol ;) > I think maybe Mike Cuy overlooked this also... > > Chuck G. > just trying to stir it up > Hey Chuck! I'll take the challenge. I understand that Bernie mounted the solid one-piece wing to the cabanes and then had two fellows lift on each wing tip when he measured for the lift struts thereby building in dome dihedral. 2" does seem a bit much though. I had a Piet with anhedral and it always stalled to one side or the other - made windy landings fun and I was often thought to be the opening clown act at local air shows in those conditions!!! Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2003
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: going against the grain
> > Oh, er, maybe you didn't notice the plans...there is NO dihedral in a > > Pietenpol ;) > > I think maybe Mike Cuy overlooked this also... > >> Chuck G. Chuck-- being friends with Frank Pavliga since about 1985 or so and his best man, when I decided to build my Piet I wanted to really aggravate him by doing things like adding brakes, a tailwheel w/ leaf springs, using chrome, having a glossy finish, and adding dihedral. It drove him nuts, I'm sure since he was such a purist about these things. Like Bernie never tried all kinds of different things, you know ? Hah. I love it. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Seibert Bob-r18643 <Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com>
Subject: Re: Springs and landing gear
Date: Sep 25, 2003
Jim, There is a copy of the spring strut drawing and landing gear jig in the mail to you today. These are the drawings I used to build my gear which is working real well (so far). I adjusted the height to accomodate 18" motorcycle wheels vs. the 6.00 x 6 wheels that the drawing is for. Hope you can post them somewhere. I lost the receipt for the springs I used but they can be bought over the internet pretty easily. If you do a Google search for "Die Springs" you will get a lot of hits for suppy houses. I used the 1 1/2 OD X 6 Gold springs. (The gold color indicates they are heavy duty) Here is one of the links that I found. http://www.diesupplies.com/catalog/springs/27ehr.html I think thats where I got mine but I can't swear to it. Regards, Bob Seibert NX23TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2003
From: "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Re: fuselage weight - setback - McGregor Fly-in
I believe the Hay Bailer spring is for the tail wheel. Chris Quoting "" : > > One of the local guys here used a $6 John Deere Hay bailer spring not sure > what part number. I am also going to contact the Lamina company as well. I > will let you guys know what I find out. > > Terry L. Bowden > ph 254-715-4773 > fax 254-853-3805 > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2003
From: "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Re: fuselage weight - setback - McGregor Fly-in
I made an error when I sent out this message below. The Lamina H-56 has a ID of 3/4" NOT 1" as I stated. The plans in the BPA news letter calls for a 2"OD and 3/4"ID spring. Sorry for the confusion. Chris T. Sacramento, Ca Quoting "" : > When I get home from work today I can email you a scan the drawing showing > the > spring assembly that was in the BPA newsletter if you still need it. The > springs recommended are Lamina H-56 die springs. The springs are 6" long > 2.0"OD 1.0"ID wire diameter 0.225 x 0.350, Max Deflection 30% of free length > > 1051.20 pounds 1.8" length of deflection. > > Chris T. > Sacramento, Ca > ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2003
From: "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Re: fuselage weight - setback - McGregor Fly-in
I can't seem to get anything right today. I think I need more sleep. The springs called out in the BPA news letter are Lamina H-56 1-3/4"OD 3/4" ID. Thats quite enough from me for today. I'm going to go take a nap. Chris T. Sleepless in Sacramento, Ca Quoting "" : > > I made an error when I sent out this message below. The Lamina H-56 has a ID > > of 3/4" NOT 1" as I stated. The plans in the BPA news letter calls for a > 2"OD > and 3/4"ID spring. > > Sorry for the confusion. > > Chris T. > > Sacramento, Ca > > Quoting "" : > > > When I get home from work today I can email you a scan the drawing showing > > the > > spring assembly that was in the BPA newsletter if you still need it. The > > springs recommended are Lamina H-56 die springs. The springs are 6" long > > 2.0"OD 1.0"ID wire diameter 0.225 x 0.350, Max Deflection 30% of free > length > > > > 1051.20 pounds 1.8" length of deflection. > > > > Chris T. > > Sacramento, Ca > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2003
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
Source for gauges and other early Ford stuff is: Little Dearborn 2424 University Ave. SE. Minneapolis, MN 55414 612 331-2066 Custom radiators can be had at: Carlberg Radiator 1310 East 66th St. Richfield, MN 55423 612 866-5107 Several Pietenpols are wearing radiators built by Carlberg Radiator Greg Cardinal, Minneapolis >>> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net 09/25/03 07:29AM >>> Hello,] New member to your discussion group here. My first question is... Where would you guys recommends I go for Model A gauges; tach, water temp, oil temp etc. And what kinds have worked for you. I'd love to find some modern mechanical gauges with a vintage look, but so many new suppliers are only making electric gauges. Any thoughts? Also, know anyone who wants to make a Piet radiator? Douwe http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 09/23/03
Date: Sep 25, 2003
Fellow Pietenpol builders, I weighed my fuselage today. Sides glued together with all the plywood and firewall installed. Rear seat and front seat. Total weight is 57 lbs. Alex Sloan ----- Original Message ----- From: <ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 09/23/03 > > > In a message dated 9/23/03 11:57:04 PM, pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com > writes: > > << From: JamesJboyer(at)aol.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel Fuselage weight >> > > Jim, my Fir fuselage, with seats,instrument panels, turtleback,various metal > fittings, weighed in at 71 pounds. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: tail wheel spring
Date: Sep 25, 2003
I went to a farm tractor dealer the other day for the ol Massey Ferguson and noticed a pile of assorted used springs about 4 ft high, all right about what a Piet would need. Dick ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2003
From: Jim Vydra <jvydra(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: John Grega
For those that knew my father in law and those that know of him...some interesting facts discovered while searching for items folks might be interested in obtaining, During WWII he was a chief flight test engineer on B-29s, afterward he worked on the project to build the wind tunnels at what is now the NASA Lewis (I believe) Research Center in Cleveland, Ohio. He was involved in model aircraft of all types since the early 30s. Among his possessions is a letter from Paul Garber, founder of the Smithsonian Institutes Air and Space Museum, regarding plans he had received with the intent to build and display the item at the museum. I don't know if it was a model or a full scale home built. Name of the item was the Cecil Peoli Racer. Any one familiar with this? I am amazed what this carpenter with a 10th grade education accomplished. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: John Grega
Date: Sep 26, 2003
Jim, Thats great stuff. I enjoy reading it. Whenever you come across information like this please continue to pass it along to the list. thanks! DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Vydra" <jvydra(at)sbcglobal.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: John Grega > > For those that knew my father in law and those that know of him...some interesting facts discovered while searching for items folks might be interested in obtaining, > > During WWII he was a chief flight test engineer on B-29s, afterward he worked on the project to build the wind tunnels at what is now the NASA Lewis (I believe) Research Center in Cleveland, Ohio. He was involved in model aircraft of all types since the early 30s. Among his possessions is a letter from Paul Garber, founder of the Smithsonian Institutes Air and Space Museum, regarding plans he had received with the intent to build and display the item at the museum. I don't know if it was a model or a full scale home built. Name of the item was the Cecil Peoli Racer. Any one familiar with this? > > I am amazed what this carpenter with a 10th grade education accomplished. > > Jim > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2003
From: Jim Vydra <jvydra(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: John Grega
Another item i forgot was a purchase order from the U.S. Navy for a set of GN-1 plans to be sent to Annapolis. Vegh" Jim, Thats great stuff. I enjoy reading it. Whenever you come across information like this please continue to pass it along to the list. thanks! DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Vydra" Subject: Pietenpol-List: John Grega > > For those that knew my father in law and those that know of him...some interesting facts discovered while searching for items folks might be interested in obtaining, > > During WWII he was a chief flight test engineer on B-29s, afterward he worked on the project to build the wind tunnels at what is now the NASA Lewis (I believe) Research Center in Cleveland, Ohio. He was involved in model aircraft of all types since the early 30s. Among his possessions is a letter from Paul Garber, founder of the Smithsonian Institutes Air and Space Museum, regarding plans he had received with the intent to build and display the item at the museum. I don't know if it was a model or a full scale home built. Name of the item was the Cecil Peoli Racer. Any one familiar with this? > > I am amazed what this carpenter with a 10th grade education accomplished. > > Jim > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2003
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: John Grega
Jim-- I met your father-in-law and he looked over my Pietenpol at a local fly in a few years ago in LaGrange, Ohio. (I live in Berea, not too far from where John lived.) I was wondering if the original GN-1 that your father-in-law built is anywhere these days or still flying ? Do you know how many of his own design he ended up building ? Just curious. Thank you ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don White" <tailwind1(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol- Wittman
Date: Sep 26, 2003
That's kind of funny, I'm building a Tailwind and thinking about a Pietenpol for MY next project. Am I just backwards??? ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol- Wittman > > In a message dated 9/24/03 8:32:32 AM Central Daylight Time, > Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes: > > << Guys--- Have you noticed that there is a general trend with Pietenpol and > GN-1 builders that gravitates them toward building a Wittman Tailwind as > their follow-on project ? >> > > Hey Mike, > I've noticed that !! The Wittman Tailwind is my next project. I have all > the ribs done, spars done, tubing bought from Airparts Inc. as well as some > other stuff I'm planning on using a Lycoming O-320. If it is built clean, > light, and simple, the guys on the Tailwind List says she should cruise about 180 > mph !!! Steve Wittman and Bernard Pietenpol had a lot in common in their > designs philosophy. There is a picture of them together in the Wittman Hanger, > at Oshkosh. The main difference is that Steve had speed in mind. His > Buttercup design, however, had slow speed in mind, with the leading edge flap, that > worked in unison with the regular flaps. It drooped the leading edge. The > Buttercup also comes in under the umbrella of the Sport Pilot Rules. There is a > guy that now sells plans (Earl Luce), and parts for the Buttercup. > http://www.luceair.com/ > > Chuck G. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Wittman Tailwind
Date: Sep 26, 2003
Ok, now my curiosity is up. Where do I buy Tailwind plans? Is there a site on the web? B Davis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol- Wittman
Date: Sep 26, 2003
They are both airplanes that have always appealed to me. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don White Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol- Wittman That's kind of funny, I'm building a Tailwind and thinking about a Pietenpol for MY next project. Am I just backwards??? ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol- Wittman > > In a message dated 9/24/03 8:32:32 AM Central Daylight Time, > Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes: > > << Guys--- Have you noticed that there is a general trend with Pietenpol and > GN-1 builders that gravitates them toward building a Wittman Tailwind as > their follow-on project ? >> > > Hey Mike, > I've noticed that !! The Wittman Tailwind is my next project. I have all > the ribs done, spars done, tubing bought from Airparts Inc. as well as some > other stuff I'm planning on using a Lycoming O-320. If it is built clean, > light, and simple, the guys on the Tailwind List says she should cruise about 180 > mph !!! Steve Wittman and Bernard Pietenpol had a lot in common in their > designs philosophy. There is a picture of them together in the Wittman Hanger, > at Oshkosh. The main difference is that Steve had speed in mind. His > Buttercup design, however, had slow speed in mind, with the leading edge flap, that > worked in unison with the regular flaps. It drooped the leading edge. The > Buttercup also comes in under the umbrella of the Sport Pilot Rules. There is a > guy that now sells plans (Earl Luce), and parts for the Buttercup. > http://www.luceair.com/ > > Chuck G. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca>
Subject: John Grega
Date: Sep 26, 2003
Jim As I get older I am more and more amazed at what people accomplish. As to the Tenth Grade Education, with no offence intended to those of us that strived for "higher learning", the school of real world experience often seems to be the best. After all isn't what people like Bernard and John have done that captivates our interest? John Mc Still instructing apprentices. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Vydra Subject: Pietenpol-List: John Grega For those that knew my father in law and those that know of him...some interesting facts discovered while searching for items folks might be interested in obtaining, During WWII he was a chief flight test engineer on B-29s, afterward he worked on the project to build the wind tunnels at what is now the NASA Lewis (I believe) Research Center in Cleveland, Ohio. He was involved in model aircraft of all types since the early 30s. Among his possessions is a letter from Paul Garber, founder of the Smithsonian Institutes Air and Space Museum, regarding plans he had received with the intent to build and display the item at the museum. I don't know if it was a model or a full scale home built. Name of the item was the Cecil Peoli Racer. Any one familiar with this? I am amazed what this carpenter with a 10th grade education accomplished. Jim == == http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report == == ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Subject: McGregor Fly-in Pics
I posted pics from the McGregor Fly-in and fish fry last weekend at the following address. Several are of Bob Sieberts beautiful airplane. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=150 Terry Bowden ph (254) 715-4773 fax (254) 853-3805 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Subject: Progress pics
I also posted some recent pics of our Pietenpol in progress. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=151 Terry Bowden ph (254) 715-4773 fax (254) 853-3805 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Subject: Re: Pietenpol- Wittman
In a message dated 9/24/03 11:18:17 PM Central Daylight Time, geebeed(at)grm.net writes: << Airparts, Chuck were are you from? Al Latham Lathrop, MO. >> Hey Al, I was on the way back to Wichita last year, and stopped in Kansas City to pick up the Tailwind tubing...hauled it all back in my Honda Prelude. Where is Lathrop ? Being the next state over, it sounds like it might be within range of a Pietenpol !! Chuck Gantzer Wichita, KS NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Subject: Re: Milestone
In a message dated 9/24/03 11:25:43 PM Central Daylight Time, jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes: << Dihedral, schmihedral! I'll have a bit of washout too!!! SO THERE!!!! :-) >> Jim, I checked out your shutterfly album. I need to do that with mine, too. It's a really good way to scan thru the progress. Lookin' good !! Oh, by the way, there is no dihedral, or washout in the Pietenpol plans, or any of the planes that BHP built. There is no dihedral or washout in the Tailwind, either. Wonder why these two Guru's of aircraft design chose not to use it...maybe it's because bent and twisted wings are for sissy's !!! :) Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Subject: Re: Wittman Tailwind
In a message dated 9/26/03 3:11:07 PM Central Daylight Time, bed(at)mindspring.com writes: << Ok, now my curiosity is up. Where do I buy Tailwind plans? Is there a site on the web? B Davis >> Barry, Aircraft Spruce has the rights to them, sell for $180. The Jim Clements Mods are the way to go, too. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Subject: Re: going against the grain
In a message dated 9/25/03 8:38:09 AM Central Daylight Time, Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes: << Chuck-- being friends with Frank Pavliga since about 1985 or so and his best man, when I decided to build my Piet I wanted to really aggravate him by doing things like adding brakes, a tailwheel w/ leaf springs, using chrome, having a glossy finish, and adding dihedral. It drove him nuts, I'm sure since he was such a purist about these things. Like Bernie never tried all kinds of different things, you know ? Hah. I love it. Mike C. >> I'm sure Bernard (I understand he prefered that name, rather than Bernie) tried all kinds of different things...but he, and Frank Pavliga also realized that 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it !!' Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Subject: Re: Progress pics
Hey Terry, I just checked out the pics of the Fly-In, and your progress. This computer stuff is GREAT !! It will help build better planes, as much as anything. I sure wish I could have made it down there. I like the spring type, split axle suspension better, as opposed to the bunji chords. The only drawback that I can see, is if your springs aren't strong enough, ya gotta get another set somewhere, probably custom made. I also noticed the last pic of your progress, you said the axles are 18" aft of the firewall. The plans call out 17" for this dimension. I'd hate to see you bust up your dad's prop !!! Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Subject: [ Charles F. Long ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Charles F. Long Subject: GPS Color Moving Map For Less Than $500 http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/charles.long@gm.com.09.27.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Kirk Huizenga
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Does anyone have Kirk Huizengas' e-mail address? Dennis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kirk Huizenga
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Hi Dennis, An archive search found this: Match: #5 Message: #20946 Date: Mar 06, 2003 From: "Kirk Huizenga" <Kirk.Huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org> Subject: Dillsburg and Torque Stand I was in a .pdf mood today I quess so I also included Dillsburg's price list and an article on buuilding a torque stand at http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=5 Ignore or enjoy Kirk End Msg: #5 Jim in Plano....... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Kirk Huizenga > > Does anyone have Kirk Huizengas' e-mail address? > Dennis > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: tig welding aluminum
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Anybody out there have experience tig welding aluminum sheet for fuel tanks? I've got mine fabricated and am ready to start, but have never tigged aluminum and though I've read, thought I'd see if anybody had first hand experience and suggestions to share, thanks, Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: tig welding aluminum
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Douwe, I put in a 14 gal nose tank and the original 10 gal wing tank. Made up patterns for both tanks, and fastened them together so I could TIG them. Had the head motor winder at our place show me how to TIG. Figured,,,It was easy. TIGed all the seams and got them home to check in case I had a leak or two. Well a watering can didn't have as many leaks. finally Asked a friend of mine who had built quite a few planes to TIG them. Believe me,,,there is no substitute for experience!! Checked them for leaks , and of course there were none. Now they are one of the trouble free systems on my flying 1929 Pietenpol Aircamper. walt evans NX140DL ps. got pics if you want ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: tig welding aluminum > > Anybody out there have experience tig welding aluminum sheet for fuel tanks? I've got mine fabricated and am ready to start, but have never tigged aluminum and though I've read, thought I'd see if anybody had first hand experience and suggestions to share, > > thanks, > Douwe > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gnwac(at)cs.com
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Subject: Re: Springs and landing gear
To Bob Seibert Hi Greg Menoche, first time builder of a Piet and first to the list. I have a drawing from Bill Rewey. Is this the same design you refer, and where did you find the springs? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gnwac(at)cs.com
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Subject: Re: Springs and landing gear
Thanks for the spring address. Are you using Bill Rewey's design or another? Greg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Seibert Bob-r18643 <Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com>
Subject: Re:Springs and landing gear
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Yes, the spring landing gear setup is from the Rewey drawing. It works fine so far and I just used a generic "heavy duty" die spring of the dimensions listed. They needed a little shimming but work great. Regards, Bob Seibert ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Pics of:Springs and landing gear
I've scanned both the spring and landging gear jig details and as soon as the mykitplane.com server is back available I'll post them.... In the meantime, if anyone wants them now, email me (direct, not to the list please) and I'll send them. And thanks Bob! Jim in Plano -----Original Message----- From: Seibert Bob-r18643 <Bob.Seibert(at)motorola.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:Springs and landing gear Yes, the spring landing gear setup is from the Rewey drawing. It works fine so far and I just used a generic "heavy duty" die spring of the dimensions listed. They needed a little shimming but work great. Regards, Bob Seibert ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: Aileron up-down throw
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Got a request from Piet builder PF Beck off list. Does anybody have a recommended aileron throw in degrees? I know I have seen some small blocks glued to the floor under the aileron torque tube bell crank but the placement and height of the blocks would give different throw limits. Skip ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Aileron up-down throw
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Skip, I made mine to the prints with the exception of piano hinges instead of strap hinges. Heard that my DAR wanted stops on the ailerons, so put in blocks with a pad of leather on each for the antique look. Just made them hit the block JUST before aileron came down and hit back of wing to completely close the gap. DAR liked it. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron up-down throw > Got a request from Piet builder PF Beck off list. > Does anybody have a recommended aileron throw in degrees? > I know I have seen some small blocks glued to the floor under the aileron > torque tube bell crank but the placement and height of the blocks would give > different throw limits. > Skip > Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Landing Gear Jig & Spring pics posted
to: <http://www.mykitplane.com/Taxiway/TheHangar/photoAlbumManager.cfm?AlbumID=152> if that link doesn't work (mine usually don't!), just go to mykitplane.com and select Photo Gallery and click on my name..... enjoy, Jim in Plano ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: Aileron up-down throw
Date: Sep 30, 2003
Walt, Thanks, I sent your msg to PF and he said it helped. Skip > Just made them hit the block JUST before aileron came down and hit back of wing to >completely close the gap. DAR liked it. walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: Fuselage Weight/leaf springs
Date: Sep 30, 2003
Cy and Chris T, Thanks for the responses. I have found some information on the internet about after market fiberglass leaf springs, they are available but seem a little pricy to me at a couple hundred bucks. I will look into the Buick Regal arch springs the next time I get to the auto recycle yard. Thanks again Skip ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: GN-1/Piet on eBay
Date: Sep 30, 2003
Listed as an ultralight, item number 2434600382 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2434600382&cat egory=26428 <http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2434600382&ca tegory=26428> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: leaf springs
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Skip wrote- >I will look into the Buick Regal arch springs the next time I get >to the auto recycle yard. From what understand, the Chevy Astro Van also has fiberglass leaf springs on the rear suspension. Not sure what years, but I believe it's the earlier ones. If you go snooping in the bone yard, see if they have an Astra Van and see if this is correct. Use extreme caution when handling these springs if you plan to cut them down or sand them to a different profile, as the glass fibers can really get you. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net High-speed Internet access as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). Click here. https://broadband.msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2003
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: two leafs saved me
Guys-- remember when we were talking about using two leaf springs rather than one for a 'standard' type tailwheel installation ? Turns out that second leaf (the shorter one on top of the longer main leaf) kept my tailwheel from bashing up into the bottom of my rudder last Sunday eve. while landing on the grass at our airport. There was no problem with my spring or installation but what caused this to happened is that I drilled four holes in the main spring to bolt to the tail and only used 3 of the 4 holes. The 4th hole has just been along for the ride. That fourth hole was near the spot where the bend starts to curve downward so it must have seen some minimal flexing. No harm done, thank goodness. The new spring is here and I will drill it out (w/ a regular masonry drill bit) for two holes this time. (three was a bit much and I don't know what the heck I was thinking when I drilled four originally) getting nippy in Ohio already, Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: leaf springs
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Oscar, Thanks for the tip, I heard off line that many GM cars have fiberglass springs, including the Astro van. I guess since we are talking about fibers not vapors the paper mask would be the thing to use. Skip > Use extreme caution when handling these springs >if you plan to cut them down or sand them to a different profile, as the >glass fibers can really get you. >Oscar Zuniga ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Hannan" <isp.inc(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: two leafs saved me
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Michael, what diameter are the rims that you used on your spoke wheels ? I am ready to send my hubs to Buchanan's. Thanks Ken Hannan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: two leafs saved me > > Guys-- remember when we were talking about using two leaf springs rather > than one for a 'standard' type tailwheel installation ? Turns out that > second leaf (the shorter one on top of the longer main leaf) kept my > tailwheel from bashing up into the bottom of my rudder last Sunday eve. > while landing on the grass at our airport. There was no problem with my > spring or installation but what caused this to happened is that I drilled > four holes in the main spring to bolt to the tail and only used 3 of the 4 > holes. The 4th hole has just been along for the ride. That fourth hole > was near the spot where the bend starts to curve downward so it must have > seen some minimal flexing. No harm done, thank goodness. The new spring > is here and I will drill it out (w/ a regular masonry drill bit) for two > holes this time. (three was a bit much and I don't know what the heck I > was thinking when I drilled four originally) > > getting nippy in Ohio already, > > Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2003
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: two leafs saved me
> >Michael, what diameter are the rims that you used on your spoke wheels ? I >am ready to send my hubs to Buchanan's. >19" >Thanks > >Ken Hannan >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: two leafs saved me > > > > > > > Guys-- remember when we were talking about using two leaf springs rather > > than one for a 'standard' type tailwheel installation ? Turns out that > > second leaf (the shorter one on top of the longer main leaf) kept my > > tailwheel from bashing up into the bottom of my rudder last Sunday eve. > > while landing on the grass at our airport. There was no problem with my > > spring or installation but what caused this to happened is that I drilled > > four holes in the main spring to bolt to the tail and only used 3 of the 4 > > holes. The 4th hole has just been along for the ride. That fourth hole > > was near the spot where the bend starts to curve downward so it must have > > seen some minimal flexing. No harm done, thank goodness. The new spring > > is here and I will drill it out (w/ a regular masonry drill bit) for two > > holes this time. (three was a bit much and I don't know what the heck I > > was thinking when I drilled four originally) > > > > getting nippy in Ohio already, > > > > Mike C. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: my piet pictures
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Ken, Nice job on the fuselage, I noticed you changed the diagonal in the back pit to be the same as the 1934 plans. Are you going to add the large gussets at the lower longeron aft of the back pit and at the tail post, also 1934 mods? Skip http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=147 ----- Original Message ----- > I posted some pictures of my Peit project, I used the planes out of > the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual and it will be A powered. > Ken Hannan > Temecula, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Hannan" <isp.inc(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: my piet pictures
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Skip, When I started this project back in 1995 the only plans I knew of were the ones from the 1932 Flying and glider Manual. and now thanks to Dick Staley I have the updated plans and have gone back in and added the gussets and added the ash boards to help in the beefing up the landing gear attachment points. I will be using the wooden landing gear with the large spoke wheels and a Ford model A.the elevator and the rudder and the wing ribs are all from the Flying and glider Manual, if you can think of any other place that needs more beefing up let me know. Thanks Ken Hannan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: my piet pictures > > Ken, > Nice job on the fuselage, I noticed you changed the diagonal in the back pit > to be the same as the 1934 plans. Are you going to add the large gussets at > the lower longeron aft of the back pit and at the tail post, also 1934 mods? > Skip > > > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=147 > ----- Original Message ----- > > I posted some pictures of my Peit project, I used the planes out of > > the > 1932 Flying and Glider Manual and it will be A powered. > > Ken Hannan > > Temecula, CA > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Textor" <jack(at)personnelincorporated.com>
Subject: my piet pictures
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Ken and Skip, I had a plans question, it sounds like you guys know your stuff. I have BP's plans, with the updated longer fuselage. I've noticed lots of differences in the pictures and commentary here on the web. Are the plans I have the most current? Should I utilize its rib design, or is there a better design? As you can tell I'm pretty new to this stuff. Are there any Piet builders close to Des Moines, IA? Thanks! Jack ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: my piet pictures
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Jack, There 3 basic Piet plans, there is also the Grega GN-1. The Piet plans can be broken down as; 1 Regular(1934 Orren Hoopman) 2 The 1932 Flyer and Glider plans about 2" shorter than regular. 3 The Corvair supplement to the regular plans, this is what most people build now because people are bigger now and the longer fuselage works good with Continental 65 power. These plans are about 14" longer and known as the long fuselage. The rib full size plan is fine, just make sure if you build over the photocopy that the distance between spars is the same as the plans call out. Have fun building, Hope this helps. Skip ----- Original Message ----- -- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Textor" jack(at)personnelincorporated.com Ken and Skip, I had a plans question, it sounds like you guys know your stuff. I have BP's plans, with the updated longer fuselage. I've noticed lots of differences in the pictures and commentary here on the web. Are the plans I have the most current? Should I utilize its rib design, or is there a better design? As you can tell I'm pretty new to this stuff. Are there any Piet builders close to Des Moines, IA? Thanks! Jack Skip Cinda Gadd --- csfog(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Subject: Tail weight
Pieters, Am beginning to get weight concious as Repiet progresses. I weighed my complete tailwheel and the two 1 1/2 inch flat springs (long one is front center leaf from T model Ford) and it says 8 pounds. Kinda heavy huh? Give me some weights of yours. Corky in beautiful La sleeping under a blanket these last few nights with his yankee bride ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2003
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Tail weight
This is how I feel, people are making their tailwheels way too heavy, take a look at the sonex tailwheel, and copy it, it is really good, light and strong, ask me how I know. It also handles way better than any other tailwheel airplane. Del Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote: Pieters, Am beginning to get weight concious as Repiet progresses. I weighed my complete tailwheel and the two 1 1/2 inch flat springs (long one is front center leaf from T model Ford) and it says 8 pounds. Kinda heavy huh? Give me some weights of yours. Corky in beautiful La sleeping under a blanket these last few nights with his yankee bride Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gnwac(at)cs.com
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Subject: Re: Tail weight
Guy's, As a new Piet builder, is there a reason in the community why many don't use the plans design tail wheel spring method and rather go with the leaf and steerable tail wheel? Thanks, Greg Menoche ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Tailwheels
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Pieters, I have been following the discussion re: tailwheels and can't understand why one should change the basic design of the original Pietenpol tail SKID. Just add a 5" wheel from Wicks to the design and go with it. It is light, as I remember only about 7 lbs, and will take a heck of a lot of abuse, believe me! My landings are much less than perfect, I have departed the runway a couple of times, and landed off the airport completely, in a field across the furrows. (the field was not plowed recently, but rather a couple of years before so the furrows were somewhat smoothed out). The triangular design has taken some extreme side loadings and stood up well. Go to http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html where Oscar Zuniga posted some information on my tailwheel installation. I will be glad to answer any questions you may have about the design/installation. Hope this helps, John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Tailwheels & Brakes
Date: Oct 02, 2003
John, Beautiful stuff....... Have you got any pictures of your mechanical brake system at the rudder end? Looks very good and simple! Cheers Peter Wonthaggi, Australia http://cpc-world.cable.nu -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Dilatush Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheels --> Pieters, I have been following the discussion re: tailwheels and can't understand why one should change the basic design of the original Pietenpol tail SKID. Just add a 5" wheel from Wicks to the design and go with it. It is light, as I remember only about 7 lbs, and will take a heck of a lot of abuse, believe me! My landings are much less than perfect, I have departed the runway a couple of times, and landed off the airport completely, in a field across the furrows. (the field was not plowed recently, but rather a couple of years before so the furrows were somewhat smoothed out). The triangular design has taken some extreme side loadings and stood up well. Go to http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html where Oscar Zuniga posted some information on my tailwheel installation. I will be glad to answer any questions you may have about the design/installation. Hope this helps, John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2003
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Tail weight
Corky--- Just happen to have my 6" solid rubber tailwheel and two leaf springs here at work. (gotta drill two holes at lunch time in the one new leaf.) I came up with 7 lbs. for the complete tailwheel/spring assy. so your 8 pounds sounds very close. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2003
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: a neat note from John Grega's son.......
guys-- I rec'd an off-list e-mail from John Grega's son R.J. the other day with this info he wrote cut and pasted below. I asked his permission to forward it to the group and he gave me the ok to do so. Michael, Looking thru the Pietenpol Digest I saw your question's posed to my brother-in-law Jim Vydra. I think I can better answer your questions. Dad started his GN-1 project early in 1958 and five years later 4705G was flying. Dad being a licensed pilot,test flew his first GN-1 utilizing a GN modified clip wing off a J-3 Cub for which the original fuselage design was intended. Simultaneously a fellow EAA'er,Andy Scinkovec of Bedford Hts.expressed his desire to build a GN-1 using the modernized Pietenpol wing. Dad and Andy finished this aircraft a few years later. Sorry can't remember the exact year, that was a while ago! Dad had to quit flying quit early because of his health, but always enjoyed sharing flying stories with other GN-1 builders. I don't know whatever happened to these two aircraft, I often wonder myself if their still flying! Regards, R.J. Grega Isn't that cool info ? There is so much written about Bernard Pietenpol, and rightly so but this contact with John Grega's son gives those builders some insight and background that I would think would be neat to know information. Please read R.J's response to my return e-mail below. I did run an FAA registration search for R.J. on his father's N4705G and that number now belongs to a Cessna somewhere in TX as I recall. R.J is aware of our discussion group/e-mail list and I believe still advertises and markets his father's plans. Read more from him below: Feel free to post that Email I sent you on the Pietenpol site, I know a lot of GN-1 ers would like to see it. Speaking of the GN-1 ers, I think they feel like their the odd man out in regards to information and help for them on the internet. With that in mind I ve decided to put together a GN-1 Aircamper web site. A site with some history, a forum, and some other things I have in mind. I hope to have the GN-1 Site up and running before the end of the year. If you don t mind you might put a plug in for it at the discussion group, I d appreciate it! Thanks again. Regards, R.J. guys-- I rec'd an off-list e-mail from John Grega's son R.J. the other day with this info he wrote cut and pasted below. I asked his permission to forward it to the group and he gave me the ok to do so. Michael, Looking thru the Pietenpol Digest I saw your question's posed to my brother-in-law Jim Vydra. I think I can better answer your questions. Dad started his GN-1 project early in 1958 and five years later 4705G was flying. Dad being a licensed pilot,test flew his first GN-1 utilizing a GN modified clip wing off a J-3 Cub for which the original fuselage design was intended. Simultaneously a fellow EAA'er,Andy Scinkovec of Bedford Hts.expressed his desire to build a GN-1 using the modernized Pietenpol wing. Dad and Andy finished this aircraft a few years later. Sorry can't remember the exact year, that was a while ago! Dad had to quit flying quit early because of his health, but always enjoyed sharing flying stories with other GN-1 builders. I don't know whatever happened to these two aircraft, I often wonder myself if their still flying! Regards, R.J. Grega Isn't that cool info ? There is so much written about Bernard Pietenpol, and rightly so but this contact with John Grega's son gives those builders some insight and background that I would think would be neat to know information. Please read R.J's response to my return e-mail below. I did run an FAA registration search for R.J. on his father's N4705G and that number now belongs to a Cessna somewhere in TX as I recall. R.J is aware of our discussion group/e-mail list and I believe still advertises and markets his father's plans. Read more from him below: Feel free to post that Email I sent you on the Pietenpol site, I know a lot of GN-1 ers would like to see it. Speaking of the GN-1 ers, I think they feel like their the odd man out in regards to information and help for them on the internet. With that in mind I ve decided to put together a GN-1 Aircamper web site. A site with some history, a forum, and some other things I have in mind. I hope to have the GN-1 Site up and running before the end of the year. If you don t mind you might put a plug in for it at the discussion group, I d appreciate it! Thanks again.
Regards, R.J.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: Tailwheels
Date: Oct 02, 2003
John, Very nice job on the Piet, very clean work, I REALLY like your prop. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I want the leaf spring type tail wheel mainly because it gives me a bigger footprint, I also think it looks cool. Also this type of tail skid is on the original Flyer and Glider plans, all I'm doing is adding a wheel. Skip PS Oscar, thanks for the great report on Johns Piet.Anyone who hasn't checked out the below link, it is worth it. >John wrote; >I have been following the discussion re: tailwheels and can't understand why one should > >change the basic design of the original Pietenpol tail SKID. >Go to http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html where Oscar Zuniga posted some > >information on my tailwheel installation. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2003
From: Jim Vydra <jvydra(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: EAA Manuals
--0-739036030-1065116604=:84123 I just found some EAA manuals and a few fly-in programs....Listed them on ebay....most start at $2.00.....2 items are listed twice because I have 2 of em. Jim --0-739036030-1065116604=:84123 I just found some EAA manuals and a few fly-in programs....Listed them on ebay....most start at $2.00.....2 items are listed twice because I have 2 of em. Jim --0-739036030-1065116604=:84123-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: Tail weight
Date: Oct 02, 2003
Del, I'll bite, how do you know the Sonex tailwheel is strong enough? Looked at the Sonex website, will he sell the Titanium tailwheel spring to a non-sonex builder? Skip >This is how I feel, people are making their tailwheels way too heavy, take a look at the >sonex tailwheel, and copy it, it is really good, light and strong, ask me how I know. It >also handles way better than any other tailwheel airplane. Del ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesJboyer(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 02, 2003
Subject: Re: Tail weight
Hi Mike and Corky, Just weighed my tailwheel, two springs, two bolts (welded to small steel plate) and nuts for bolts. Total weighed 8.5 pounds. cheers, Jim Hi Mike and Corky, Just weighed my tailwheel, two springs, two bolts (welded to small steel plate) and nuts for bolts. Total weighed 8.5 pounds. cheers, Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2003
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Jim's wt. is more complete
Jim-- yes, the two bolts and plate they are welded to add up and the clamp to keep the two leaves together. That wt. sounds right--- now after 3 of us (excuse the pun) "weighed in". Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2003
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Tail weight
--0-1918687955-1065126092=:28821 It is just a titanium rod that is cut to length and 2 holes drilled in it. It can be bought anywhere cheaper than buying it from sonex. the metal parts are simple to make, I can supply the dimensions. How do I figure they're strong enough? because they're on a plane that is the same weight as a pietenpol. none has ever broken, I've slammed mine in several times. The direct steering system without the full swiveling feature increases ground handling by 100 percent Del "Gadd, Skip" wrote: Del, I'll bite, how do you know the Sonex tailwheel is strong enough? Looked at the Sonex website, will he sell the Titanium tailwheel spring to a non-sonex builder? Skip >This is how I feel, people are making their tailwheels way too heavy, take a look at the >sonex tailwheel, and copy it, it is really good, light and strong, ask me how I know. It >also handles way better than any other tailwheel airplane. Del Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- --0-1918687955-1065126092=:28821 It is just a titanium rod that is cut to length and 2 holes drilled in it. It can be bought anywhere cheaper than buying it from sonex. the metal parts are simple to make, I can supply the dimensions. How do I figure they're strong enough? because they're on a plane that is the same weight as a pietenpol. none has ever broken, I've slammed mine in several times. The direct steering system without the full swiveling feature increases ground handling by 100 percent Del "Gadd, Skip" Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov wrote: g on the --0-1918687955-1065126092=:28821-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 02, 2003
Subject: Re: Tail weight
In a message dated 10/1/03 10:49:52 PM Central Daylight Time, Gnwac(at)cs.com writes: << As a new Piet builder, is there a reason in the community why many don't use the plans design tail wheel spring method and rather go with the leaf and steerable tail wheel? >> I used the plans design triangle skid, (short fuse), coil spring, and recently put a steerable tailwheel to the aft end of it. I used a 3 1/2" wheel I bought at Harbor Freight, removed the ball bearings from it, and used 'Oilite Brass Bearings' in the wheel, as well as in the pivot point of the steering. I used 1/16" cable all the way up to the inboard portion of the rudder bar. I ran these cables thru nylon tubing thru the back cockpit, about 1 1/2" from each side of the torque tube. Everything is working very well. Chuck G. full fuel for a week and a half, waiting for the chance to burn some... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwheels & Brakes
Date: Oct 03, 2003
----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheels & Brakes +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Peter, I'm going out to the airport this weekend and will take my camera and shoot some closeups of the installation, then E-mail them to you. John PS I assume you to mean the toe brakes mounted on the rudder bar??? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > John, > > Beautiful stuff....... > > Have you got any pictures of your mechanical brake system at the rudder end? > Looks very good and simple! > > Cheers > > Peter > Wonthaggi, Australia > http://cpc-world.cable.nu > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John > Dilatush > To: Pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheels > > > --> > > Pieters, > > I have been following the discussion re: tailwheels and can't understand why > one should change the basic design of the original Pietenpol tail SKID. > > Just add a 5" wheel from Wicks to the design and go with it. It is light, > as I remember only about 7 lbs, and will take a heck of a lot of abuse, > believe me! My landings are much less than perfect, I have departed the > runway a couple of times, and landed off the airport completely, in a field > across the furrows. (the field was not plowed recently, but rather a couple > of years before so the furrows were somewhat smoothed out). The triangular > design has taken some extreme side loadings and stood up well. > > Go to http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html where Oscar Zuniga > posted some information on my tailwheel installation. > > I will be glad to answer any questions you may have about the > design/installation. > > Hope this helps, > > John > > > advertising on the Matronics Forums. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: headset ideas ?
Date: Oct 03, 2003
From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
Mike, I've had a pair of Lightspeed 20XLs for about 3 years. They're very comfortable, I think even more than Dave Clarks. One negative is that the stitching on the piece that goes over the head is coming undone, but duct tape should handle that without an STC I suppose. They don't kill all of the engine noise but they do a nice job, especially with the bass frequencies as mentioned already. They are large, which I suppose in some cabins might mean an occasional bang against the window, but they haven't been a problem in 152s, 172s or Citabrias. Mark Hodgson ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: headset ideas
Date: Oct 03, 2003
From: "Sanders, Andrew P" <andrew.p.sanders(at)boeing.com>
Mike: I've done the Headsets Inc. conversion on a set of David Clarks, have an Flightcom ANX-4 which Flightcom no longer makes, but someone else clones from a set of stock -4's, and a pair of DRE-6000 headsets (http://www.drecomm.com/6kservice.htm). They all seem to use the same basic module and the active noise reduction works very well. Due to a little streak of crualty, I like to put them on the head of another pilot that hasn't tried anr before. I start the takeoff with them off and switch the power on just past the end or our 2000' runway. With about half of them you've got to watch for the flailing arms as they try to jump out of the seat! The Dave Clarks are of Dave Clark quality. I had to upgrade the ear seals and spend an evening disassembling, rewiring, soldering, installing and reassembling. It's a relaxing evening project if you are comfortable soldering fine wires in tight courters. The cost, on top of an existing pair of headsets was just over $200 about 5 years ago. I liked them enough that after getting my private license, I wanted another pair. I was shopping for an inexpensive pair of conventional headsets that I could do another conversion on. I found the Flightcom's at a discounted price of $320 at American Avionics in Seattle about 4 years ago. I bought these because I couldn't buy the conventional headsets and conversion kit for that price. They also came with a padded soft case for the headset and battery box. They work as well as the DC's. The head clamping pressure is a bit less and overall the quality is good by a step down. I got the DRE's last year and have only recently begun to use them (had a 60 week long annual on the Cardinal). They work very well. The fit and feel very good. They quality is up to DC's. They come with a very delux case. Additionally they have a far superior battery box. It holds two nine volt batteries rather than the one the others do. It also has LED annuncinators for battery condition and external power. DRE supplies a cigrette plug adapter to power the headset from ships power. I wired a separate fused outlet for all four seats next to the headset jacks. Provisions for ships power is an extra cost option on the others. The frosting on the cake is that they are available from Marve Golden for $289!!! http://www.marvgolden.com/headsets/dre-main.htm Customer service at DRE has been absolutely outstanding. I had purchased a DRE portable intercom from Aircraft Spruce. I had chosen it over a PSE unit because AS advertised it as being convertable to a panel mounted unit. When I ordered it I confirmed that that was the case. A couple of years later when I contacted them about a conversion kit, I found out the it wasn't the case and I was SOL. There was nothing they were willing to do about it. They still list the unit as convertable in their catalog. I contacted DRE and they were very appoligetic and bent over backwards to help me. They had absolutly zero obligation to do anything. It was not their problem in any way. I'm also very pleased with their intercoms. Hope this is helpful, Andrew Sanders N2206Y From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: headset ideas ? For those of you who fly more closed cabin and do more radio work, do you have any recommendation for buying a new active noise reduction headset? ... SNIP ... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 03, 2003
Subject: GPS / Handheld
OK, so I'll admit to using a GPS for backup, on cross country flights. The mount I made for it was in the center of the panel, along the lower edge, but it didn't work out...much too difficult to get in & out. The other big problem I have with all this eee lec tronic crap in my cockpit, is that the Magellan Skyblazer XL GPS causes lots of interference with my ICOM handheld, and has to be turned off, to use the com radio. Question: Does anyone else have an interference problem with the GPS ? Chuck Gantzer Wichita KS NX770CG weekend Kansas flying weather, is looookin' goood !! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2003
From: Leo Gates <leogates(at)allvantage.com>
Subject: Re: GPS / Handheld
I have a Garmin Pilot III and Icom hand held. No problem. Leo Gates Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > > >I have with all this eee lec tronic crap in my cockpit, is that the >Magellan Skyblazer XL GPS causes lots of interference with my ICOM handheld, and >has to be turned off, to use the com radio. >Question: Does anyone else have an interference problem with the GPS ? > >Chuck Gantzer >Wichita KS >NX770CG > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: I need some wire wheels.....
Date: Oct 04, 2003
I have a couple of McCauley 600-6 wheels with tires/tubes I would like to trade for 19" wire wheels. They have 4 bolt axles and brake disks but no brake assemblies. A little dusty as they've been sitting for several years...... I'm not particularly interested in selling them, but would consider any offer that would help get me to the cost of the wire wheels if no one has some wire wheels I might trade (again, this is my preference). I've posted pictures on mykitplane.com in the Photo Gallery area. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=155 Email (privately, off list please) if you or someone you know is interested. I haven't a clue what's a fair price but we can work it out...... Jim in Plano mobile: 469-371-0669 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Subject: Re: I need some wire wheels.....
-------------------------------1065287082 Jim, If you will excuse my barging in I might make a suggestion on the wire wheels: While planning 41CC I considered wire wheels. I was directed to a motorcycle bone yrd north of Tyler Texas. I went and saw about 8 or 10 rows of bikes about a quarter mile long. The guy in the office said it would be about $40 for a pr of wheels w/ brakes and control levers. To get there from Dallas on I-20 pass Lindale then turn north at the exit to Tyler State Park. It's on the left 5 or so miles. Corky -------------------------------1065287082 tutf-8"> Jim, If you will excuse my barging in I might make a suggestion on the wire=20wheels: While planning 41CC I considered wire wheels. I was directed to a motorcycle bone yrd north of Tyler Texas. I went and saw about 8 or 10 rows of bikes about a quarter mile long. The guy in the office said it would be about $40 for a pr of wheels w/ brakes and control levers. To get there from Dallas on I-20 pass Lindale then turn north at the exit to Tyler State Park. It's on the left 5 or so miles. Corky -------------------------------1065287082-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Need pgs 44,45, 46, 47
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Hey all. I am missing pages 44 through 47 of the Continental Maintenance and Overhaul Manual. I have a REALLY old manual and naturaly the only pages that came un-stapled were the ones with the "Table of Limits". I have disassembled the engine ( I had to replace a damaged cam-follower.) I am ready to re-assemble it all bu I am curious as to the wear on te crankshaft and camshaft. If somebody could scan anything that will tell me the diameters, I would greatly appreciate it. Please respond off-line, Thanks, Bert Hey all. I am missing pages 44 through 47 of the Continental Maintenance and Overhaul Manual. I have a REALLY old manual and naturaly the only pages that came un-stapled were the ones with the "Table of Limits". I have disassembled the engine ( I had to replace a damaged cam-follower.) I am ready to re-assemble it all bu I am curious as to the wear on te crankshaft and camshaft. If somebody could scan anything that will tell me the diameters, I would greatly appreciate it. Please respond off-line, Thanks, Bert ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Need pgs 44,45, 46, 47
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Besides the spec on page 46 you need to make sure that the "toe" of the cam has a 0.001 taper from side to side. This is necessary to make the cam follower rotate. If you don't, the follower face will get a groove. Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club Newsletter Editor & EAA TC www.bellanca-championclub.com Actively supporting Aeroncas every day Quarterly newsletters on time Reasonable document reprints ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Need pgs 44,45, 46, 47 > > > Hey all. I am missing pages 44 through 47 of the Continental > Maintenance and Overhaul Manual. > I have a REALLY old manual and naturaly the only pages that came > un-stapled were the ones with the "Table of Limits". > > I have disassembled the engine ( I had to replace a damaged > cam-follower.) I am ready to re-assemble it all bu I am curious as to > the wear on te crankshaft and camshaft. > > If somebody could scan anything that will tell me the diameters, I would > greatly appreciate it. > Please respond off-line, > Thanks, Bert > > > > > > > > Hey all. I am missing pages 44 > through 47 of > the Continental Maintenance and Overhaul Manual. > I have a REALLY old manual and naturaly > the only > pages that came un-stapled were the ones with the "Table of > Limits". > > I have disassembled the engine ( I had > to replace a > damaged cam-follower.) I am ready to re-assemble it all bu I am curious > as to > the wear on te crankshaft and camshaft. > > If somebody could scan anything that > will tell me > the diameters, I would greatly appreciate it. > Please respond off-line, > Thanks, > Bert > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Need pgs 44,45, 46, 47
Date: Oct 05, 2003
Thanks, Cy I got the attachment - just what I needed Bert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need pgs 44,45, 46, 47 > > Besides the spec on page 46 you need to make sure that the "toe" of the cam > has a 0.001 taper from side to side. This is necessary to make the cam > follower rotate. If you don't, the follower face will get a groove. > > Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club > Newsletter Editor & EAA TC > www.bellanca-championclub.com > Actively supporting Aeroncas every day > Quarterly newsletters on time > Reasonable document reprints > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> > To: > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Need pgs 44,45, 46, 47 > > > > > > > > > Hey all. I am missing pages 44 through 47 of the Continental > > Maintenance and Overhaul Manual. > > I have a REALLY old manual and naturaly the only pages that came > > un-stapled were the ones with the "Table of Limits". > > > > I have disassembled the engine ( I had to replace a damaged > > cam-follower.) I am ready to re-assemble it all bu I am curious as to > > the wear on te crankshaft and camshaft. > > > > If somebody could scan anything that will tell me the diameters, I would > > greatly appreciate it. > > Please respond off-line, > > Thanks, Bert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey all. I am missing pages 44 > > through 47 of > > the Continental Maintenance and Overhaul Manual. > > I have a REALLY old manual and naturaly > > the only > > pages that came un-stapled were the ones with the "Table of > > Limits". > > > > I have disassembled the engine ( I had > > to replace a > > damaged cam-follower.) I am ready to re-assemble it all bu I am curious > > as to > > the wear on te crankshaft and camshaft. > > > > If somebody could scan anything that > > will tell me > > the diameters, I would greatly appreciate it. > > Please respond off-line, > > Thanks, > > Bert > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: tailskid, brakeless groundhandling advice
Date: Oct 05, 2003
Anyone with brakelss, tailskid experience out there? am compiling tips and advice from guys who know how. What are some good runup tricks and steering and general handling techniques that have worked. Please only offer advice if it is first-hand experience, I've heard enough second hand horror stories to last me for a while. thanks, Douwe douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net Anyone with brakelss, tailskid experience out there? am compiling tips and advice from guys who know how. What are some good runup tricks and steering and general handling techniques that have worked. Please only offer advice if it is first-hand experience, I've heard enough second hand horror stories to last me for a while. thanks, Douwe douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2003
From: Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: tailskid, brakeless groundhandling advice
> > > >Anyone with brakelss, tailskid experience out there? am compiling tips >and advice from guys who know how. What are some good runup tricks and >steering and general handling techniques that have worked. Please only >offer advice if it is first-hand experience, I've heard enough second >hand horror stories to last me for a while. > >thanks, >Douwe >douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net Douwe, Frank Pavliga, builder & owner of 'Sky Gypsy' is probably the guy you want to talk to. Tail skid, no brakes & been flying it for years & years off of grass. I've watched him fly it any number of times, but have never been up in it myself. He's a local, but well known in Piet World. I don't think he is fond of e-mail, you'd probably have to get hold of him by phone. He lives in Rootstown, OH. Kip Gardner North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Corvair engine assembly! - pics
Date: Oct 05, 2003
Well....... after over a year of gathering up parts and having machining/welding work done, today was a big day for me. I began assembly! I spent nearly 3 hours last night cleaning and prepping the cases one last time. This morning I gathered up the recommended supplies, STP, motor oil, oil squirt can, rubber mallet, moly lube, anti-seize compound, form-a-gasket, white linen cotton shop towels and started assembly after breakfast. It was a very enjoyable experience! I had fun. I took quite a few shots as I went along. They are on today's entry of my construction log: here:
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/10-05-03.htm This week I'll be putting in the pistons/cylinders/heads. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: tailskid, brakeless groundhandling advice
Date: Oct 05, 2003
----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailskid, brakeless groundhandling advice ++++++++++++++++++++++++ Douwe, How close to finishing your plane are you? John ++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > Anyone with brakelss, tailskid experience out there? am compiling tips > and advice from guys who know how. What are some good runup tricks and > steering and general handling techniques that have worked. Please only > offer advice if it is first-hand experience, I've heard enough second > hand horror stories to last me for a while. > > thanks, > Douwe > douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net > > > > > > > Anyone with brakelss, tailskid > experience out > there? am compiling tips and advice from guys who know how. > What are > some good runup tricks and steering and general handling techniques that > have > worked. Please only offer advice if it is first-hand experience, > I've > heard enough second hand horror stories to last me for a > while. > > thanks, > Douwe > href"mailto:douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net">douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net A> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TomTravis(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 05, 2003
Subject: Re: headset ideas ?
Mike, I've tried the Telex ANR's as well as the Lightspeeds and Bose. The Telex is a might heavier but seems to work as well or better than the others. The Bose is lighter, a lot more expensive and, in my opinion, are overrated. There is a company in Amarillo, Texas that will take your David Clarks and turn them into ANR's. I've found that the earpieces make a lot of difference. Oregon Aero makes good earpieces to fit most any headset. My wife has hearing troubles and insists on ANR's. After all these years my ears are pretty much shot anyway. Tom Travis Mike, I've tried the Telex ANR's as well as the Lightspeeds and Bose. The Telex is a might heavier but seems to work as well or better than the others. The Bose is lighter, a lot more expensive and, in my opinion, are overrated. There is a company in Amarillo, Texas that will take your David Clarks and turn them into ANR's. I've found that the earpieces make a lot of difference. Oregon Aero makes good earpieces to fit most any headset. My wife has hearing troubles and insists on ANR's. After all these years my=20ears are pretty much shot anyway. Tom Travis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 05, 2003
Subject: Re: tailskid, brakeless groundhandling advice
In a message dated 10/5/03 6:59:30 PM Central Daylight Time, douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes: << Anyone with brakelss, tailskid experience out there? >> Douwe, I have about 36 hrs on my Piet, with the plans built tail skid, short fuselage, and no brakes. It works suprisingly very well...ON THE GRASS. Take off, and landing were no problem (well almost), after I got some time in the seat. I always did run - up in the chocks, climb back out to remove the chocks, then climb back in. It was much easier if someone was around to help, but that wasn't always the case. Before I moved the wing back, with the Model A still on 'er, I would get some forward motion with about half power (maybe 1 or 2 mph), holding full forward stick to lighten up the tail, add full rudder, and she would just turn around like I had brakes to pivot 'er around at the wing tip. After moving the wing back 3 1/2" it would do the turn with the pivot point about 5' outboard of the wing tip. I'm here to say, that the short fuselage, Model A engine, no brakes and tail skid, the Pietenpol Aircamper handles very well - ON THE GRASS...ya just gotta stay ahead of the airplane. On hard surface, though, it's a totally different story...ya can't stay ahead of the plane if it doesn't take you to where you wanna go !! With a tail skid the tail just has a mind of it's own, on hard surface. Chuck Gantzer logged 2.3 hr flight today - Beautiful day to do two T.P. drops, take 7 aerial photos, and a lap around Cheeney lake !! Ten sail boats on the lake. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 06, 2003
Subject: Fuel Tank Requirements
I recently sent Ed G. some ideas on how I did my fuel tank...thought I might post it to the group. First, I set out my design criteria : 1) No fittings in the cowling, so there is no chance of fuel leaks inside the cowling, or passenger compartment. 2) In the tail down attitude (static laden) all the water in the fuel must make it's way out of the tank, to the gascolator. 3) Make use of every available cubic inch, for fuel quantity. 4) Simple, effective fuel quantity indicator, while in flight. - Cork / Wire in the filler cap of the cowling tank, like on a J3 Cub. Each of my two fuel caps also has a 1/4" copper ram tube J.B. welded into the caps, and 90 bend pointing into the slipstream, to keep a positive pressure in the tank. I made my fiberglass cowl tank with the flanges on the sides of the tank, to rest on the top of the longerons. The flanges are about 10 layers thick, with the layers laid 90 bend to the exterior of the tank. I used polyester resin, and at least 4 layers of fiberglass on both tanks. I used several extra layers around any fittings and mounts. I put a lot of time and thought into the mold for the tank. I made the inlet on the top left side, (at about 10 O'clock pilot's view), and made a fiberglass blister stand outboard of the cowling, to prevent posibility of leaks entering the cowling. The outlet is also outside of the cowling shelf, and points forward, through the firewall. The bottom of the tank slopes forward, while in the tail down attitude (as it sits in the hanger), so any water in the tank makes it's way all the way out of the tank, and into the gascolator (a very important design criteria). The aft bottom also has a step in it, that also sloaps forward, to make use of the space all the way back to the cabane cables. I used the aluminum 'weldable fittings' that AS&S sells, grinded the outboard ring off, and glassed them in at the inlet and outlet. On the outlet side, I modified a finger screen, so it threads into the 'weldable fitting', by taping the o.d. threads, and then install the 90 EL, which threads into the 'weldable fitting' on top of the finger screen. To service the finger screen, the 90 EL has to be removed first. As a result, I was able to squeeze a lot of fuel in the cowling tank. It holds 10.7 gals. I didn't know how much fuel it would hold, till I did a leak test, by setting it up at the gas pump, at the angle the tank sits in the plane with the tail down, and put one gallon in at a time, then dipping a stick into the fuel, to mark off each additional gallon. That's how I made my 'Fuel Quantity Indicator Stick'. I topped it all the way off, then put the full tank in my trunk, brought it home and left it sit for 3 or 4 days to check for leaks - No Leaks !! My wing tank holds 9.8 gals. so my total fuel onboard can be 20 gal. That's a lot of fuel. I don't think I could sit there long enough to burn that much fuel at a time, but on the way back from Oshkosh, I did do one 4 hr leg, and two 3 1/2 hr legs, and still had plenty of reserve. But you know what they say - "The only time you have too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire !!" It was quite a chore to design and build this tank, but it all works very well, and I'm pleased with how it turned out. A note about fiberglass fuel tanks: It is of utmost importance, that you NEVER use any fuel with alcohol in it. It will soften the polyester resin, and you'll have to scrap the tank. My scanner stopped working, so I can't send you any pics. I sure wish I could send pics that I took, as it would easily explain what I've just put in text. Let me know if you have any other questions. Chuck G. From trees & rags, to Stick & Rudder - "Contact" hot mags, Pietenpol's are Forever !! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Rickards" <pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca>
Subject: Re: Corvair engine assembly! - pics
Date: Oct 06, 2003
Nice work DJ!! Gives me some inspiration to get cracking on my engine! Ken GN1 2992 Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics > > Well....... after over a year of gathering up parts and having > machining/welding work done, today was a big day for me. I began assembly! > > I spent nearly 3 hours last night cleaning and prepping the cases one last > time. This morning I gathered up the recommended supplies, STP, motor oil, > oil squirt can, rubber mallet, moly lube, anti-seize compound, > form-a-gasket, white linen cotton shop towels and started assembly after > breakfast. > > It was a very enjoyable experience! I had fun. > > I took quite a few shots as I went along. They are on today's entry of my > construction log: here: > >
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/10-05-03.htm > > This week I'll be putting in the pistons/cylinders/heads. > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Rickards" <pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca>
Subject: Re: Corvair engine assembly! - pics
Date: Oct 06, 2003
Just looking at your engine pics again. Would be cool to see a before and after shot next to each other, just to show what can be done with the right motivation. Looking forward to seeing a best plans build award hanging off the prop when you get it to Oshkosh. Again... Nice work. Ken GN1 2992 Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics > > Well....... after over a year of gathering up parts and having > machining/welding work done, today was a big day for me. I began assembly! > > I spent nearly 3 hours last night cleaning and prepping the cases one last > time. This morning I gathered up the recommended supplies, STP, motor oil, > oil squirt can, rubber mallet, moly lube, anti-seize compound, > form-a-gasket, white linen cotton shop towels and started assembly after > breakfast. > > It was a very enjoyable experience! I had fun. > > I took quite a few shots as I went along. They are on today's entry of my > construction log: here: > > http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/10-05-03.htm > > This week I'll be putting in the pistons/cylinders/heads. > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2003
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: tailwheel pics
--0-118814990-1065465223=:53328 For those interested in a better tailwheel setup that might save 3-5 lbs right where it would do some good on a piet. And improve ground handling to boot. I havn't flown a piet but I did have a taylercraft, and I would guess they handle about the same. If they do, there is a world of difference between my taylorcraft and my sonex. I am building a piet and plan on using the same sonex setup on the piet. per following pics http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=157 Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- --0-118814990-1065465223=:53328 For those interested in a better tailwheel setup that might save 3-5 lbs right where it would do some good on a piet. And improve ground handling to boot. I havn't flown a piet but I did have a taylercraft, and I would guess they handle about the same. If they do, there is a world of difference between my taylorcraft and my sonex. I am building a piet and plan on using the same sonex setup on the piet. per following pics http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=157 Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
--0-118814990-1065465223=:53328-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Thomasville Fly-In
Date: Oct 06, 2003
Why don't we plan a time to meet on Saturday maybe around lunch? Barry Davis Why don't we plan a time to meet on Saturday maybe around lunch? Barry Davis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 07, 2003
Subject: Re: Endurance, By Chuck Gantzer
In a message dated 10/6/03 12:25:46 PM Central Daylight Time, Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes: << Chuck-- you did one 4 hour and two 3.5 hour legs on your way back from the land of Holsteins and Cheese ????????? Holy Moly ! >> Well ol' buddy, if ya got the fuel, ya might as well burn it !! :) During my test filghts I realized I needed a more comfortable pad for my butt. I used pieces of various dense foam to make a pad, with the thinest part in the middle where I actually sit. It forms somewhat in a deep dish shape, and most importantly, extends 2" forward of the front of the edge of the seat, to give my thighs some support. Then just made a cover out of denim fabric. I gained lots of experience on how to climb in and out of the plane, while I was making that seat !! I used to be able to blame my numb butt cheaks for a bad landing...gotta come up with a different excuse, now. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair engine assembly! - pics
Date: Oct 07, 2003
Ken, I just made a link on the bottom of the latest entry which leads to a before and after shot. here's the link directly ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Rickards Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics Just looking at your engine pics again. Would be cool to see a before and after shot next to each other, just to show what can be done with the right motivation. Looking forward to seeing a best plans build award hanging off the prop when you get it to Oshkosh. Again... Nice work. Ken GN1 2992 Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics > > Well....... after over a year of gathering up parts and having > machining/welding work done, today was a big day for me. I began assembly! > > I spent nearly 3 hours last night cleaning and prepping the cases one last > time. This morning I gathered up the recommended supplies, STP, motor oil, > oil squirt can, rubber mallet, moly lube, anti-seize compound, > form-a-gasket, white linen cotton shop towels and started assembly after > breakfast. > > It was a very enjoyable experience! I had fun. > > I took quite a few shots as I went along. They are on today's entry of my > construction log: here: > >
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/10-05-03.htm > > This week I'll be putting in the pistons/cylinders/heads. > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > = = http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report = = = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. Ken, I just made a link on the bottom of the latest entry which leads to a before and after shot. here's the link directly ----- Original Message ----- From: <A titlepietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca href"mailto:pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca">Ken Rickards href"mailto:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com">pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics -- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Rickards" pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca Just looking at your engine pics again. Would be cool to see a before and after shot next to each other, just to show what can be done with the right motivation. Looking forward to seeing a best plans build award hanging off the prop when you get it to Oshkosh. Again... Nice work. Ken GN1 2992 Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ Vegh" <A href"mailto:aircamper(at)imagedv.com">aircamper(at)imagedv.com href"mailto:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com">pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics -- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" aircamper(at)imagedv.com Well....... after over a year of gathering up parts and having machining/welding work done, today was a big day for me. I began assembly! I spent nearly 3 hours last night cleaning and prepping the cases one last time. This morning I gathered up the recommended supplies, STP, motor oil, oil squirt can, rubber mallet, moly lube, anti-seize compound, form-a-gasket, white linen cotton shop towels and started assembly after breakfast. It was a very enjoyable experience! I had fun. I took quite a few shots as I went along. They are on today's entry of my construction log: here: http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/10-05-03.htm This week I'll be putting in the pistons/cylinders/heads. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamperhttp://www.matronics.comhref"mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com">pietenpol-list@matronics.comUN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/sList FAQ: http://www.matroSearch Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search<7-Day Browse: http://www.matronBrowse Digests: http://www.matronArchives: http://www.matronics.com/archiPhoto Share: http://www.matronics.com/phoList Specific: http://www.matronics.comOther Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaTrouble Report http://www.matronics.comContributions: http://www.matronics.com/c = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair engine assembly! - pics
Date: Oct 07, 2003
oopps forgot the link http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/corvair-comparison.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Rickards Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics Just looking at your engine pics again. Would be cool to see a before and after shot next to each other, just to show what can be done with the right motivation. Looking forward to seeing a best plans build award hanging off the prop when you get it to Oshkosh. Again... Nice work. Ken GN1 2992 Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics > > Well....... after over a year of gathering up parts and having > machining/welding work done, today was a big day for me. I began assembly! > > I spent nearly 3 hours last night cleaning and prepping the cases one last > time. This morning I gathered up the recommended supplies, STP, motor oil, > oil squirt can, rubber mallet, moly lube, anti-seize compound, > form-a-gasket, white linen cotton shop towels and started assembly after > breakfast. > > It was a very enjoyable experience! I had fun. > > I took quite a few shots as I went along. They are on today's entry of my > construction log: here: > > http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/10-05-03.htm > > This week I'll be putting in the pistons/cylinders/heads. > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > = = http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report = = = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. oopps forgot the link http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/corvair-comparison.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: <A titlepietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca href"mailto:pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca">Ken Rickards href"mailto:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com">pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics -- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Rickards" pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca Just looking at your engine pics again. Would be cool to see a before and after shot next to each other, just to show what can be done with the right motivation. Looking forward to seeing a best plans build award hanging off the prop when you get it to Oshkosh. Again... Nice work. Ken GN1 2992 Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ Vegh" <A href"mailto:aircamper(at)imagedv.com">aircamper(at)imagedv.com href"mailto:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com">pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics -- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" aircamper(at)imagedv.com Well....... after over a year of gathering up parts and having machining/welding work done, today was a big day for me. I began assembly! I spent nearly 3 hours last night cleaning and prepping the cases one last time. This morning I gathered up the recommended supplies, STP, motor oil, oil squirt can, rubber mallet, moly lube, anti-seize compound, form-a-gasket, white linen cotton shop towels and started assembly after breakfast. It was a very enjoyable experience! I had fun. I took quite a few shots as I went along. They are on today's entry of my construction log: here: http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/10-05-03.htm This week I'll be putting in the pistons/cylinders/heads. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamperhttp://www.matronics.comhref"mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com">pietenpol-list@matronics.comUN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/sList FAQ: http://www.matroSearch Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search<7-Day Browse: http://www.matronBrowse Digests: http://www.matronArchives: http://www.matronics.com/archiPhoto Share: http://www.matronics.com/phoList Specific: http://www.matronics.comOther Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaTrouble Report http://www.matronics.comContributions: http://www.matronics.com/c = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Rickards" <pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca>
Subject: Re: Corvair engine assembly! - pics
Date: Oct 07, 2003
Thanks DJ. With yours looking so good, it gives me something to shoot for... Ken GN1 2992 Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics > > > Ken, I just made a link on the bottom of the latest entry which leads to > a before and after shot. > > here's the link directly > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ken Rickards > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics > > > > > Just looking at your engine pics again. Would be cool to see a before > and > after shot next to each other, just to show what can be done with the > right > motivation. > > Looking forward to seeing a best plans build award hanging off the prop > when > you get it to Oshkosh. > > Again... Nice work. > > Ken > > GN1 2992 > > Canada > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> > To: > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics > > > > > > > Well....... after over a year of gathering up parts and having > > machining/welding work done, today was a big day for me. I began > assembly! > > > > I spent nearly 3 hours last night cleaning and prepping the cases one > last > > time. This morning I gathered up the recommended supplies, STP, motor > oil, > > oil squirt can, rubber mallet, moly lube, anti-seize compound, > > form-a-gasket, white linen cotton shop towels and started assembly > after > > breakfast. > > > > It was a very enjoyable experience! I had fun. > > > > I took quite a few shots as I went along. They are on today's entry > of my > > construction log: here: > > > > http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/10-05-03.htm > > > > This week I'll be putting in the pistons/cylinders/heads. > > > > DJ Vegh > > N74DV > > Mesa, AZ > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report > > > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing b> y Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more > information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpriceh> osting.com/av.asp>.> > > > > > > > Ken, size2>I just made a > link on the bottom of the latest entry which leads to a before and after > > shot. > > here's the link directly > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <A > titlepietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca href"mailto:pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca">Ken > Rickards > > To: href"mailto:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com">pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> > > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 10:23 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics > > > -- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Rickards" > href"mailto:pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca">pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca R>Just > looking at your engine pics again. Would be cool to see a before > and after shot next to each other, just to show what can be > done with > the right motivation. Looking forward to seeing a best plans > build > award hanging off the prop when you get it to > Oshkosh. Again... Nice > work. Ken GN1 2992 Canada ----- Original > Message > ----- From: "DJ Vegh" <A > href"mailto:aircamper(at)imagedv.com">aircamper(at)imagedv.com To> : href"mailto:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com">pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: > Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics -- > href"mailto:aircamper(at)imagedv.com">aircamper(at)imagedv.com > Well....... after over a year of gathering up parts and having > machining/welding work done, today was a big day for me. I > began assembly! I spent nearly 3 hours last night > cleaning > and prepping the cases one last time. This morning I gathered up > the > recommended supplies, STP, motor oil, oil squirt can, rubber > mallet, > moly lube, anti-seize compound, form-a-gasket, white linen > cotton shop > towels and started assembly after breakfast. It > was a > very enjoyable experience! I had fun. I took quite > a few > shots as I went along. They are on today's entry of my > construction log: here: href"http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/10-05-03.htm">ht> tp://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/10-05-03.htm R> > This week I'll be putting in the > pistons/cylinders/heads. DJ > Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ href"http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper">www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > nbsp; > entirely > see banner > > > href"http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report">http://www.matronics.com> > > href"mailto:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com">pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> UN/SUBSCRIBE: href"http://www.matronics.com/subscription">http://www.matronics.com/s> List FAQ: href"http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm">http://www.matro> Search Engine: href"http://www.matronics.com/search">http://www.matronics.com/search<> 7-Day Browse: href"http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list">http://www.matron> Browse Digests: href"http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list">http://www.matron> Archives: href"http://www.matronics.com/archives">http://www.matronics.com/archi> Photo Share: href"http://www.matronics.com/photoshare">http://www.matronics.com/pho> List Specific: href"http://www.matronics.com/pietenpol-list">http://www.matronics.com> Other Lists: href"http://www.matronics.com/emaillists">http://www.matronics.com/ema> Trouble Report href"http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report">http://www.matronics.com> Contributions: href"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c> > > > > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing b> y Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more > information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpriceh> osting.com/av.asp>.> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Rickards" <pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca>
Subject: Re: Corvair engine assembly! - pics
Date: Oct 07, 2003
DJ. How did you get your heads so clean? Ken GN1 2992 Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics > > Well....... after over a year of gathering up parts and having > machining/welding work done, today was a big day for me. I began assembly! > > I spent nearly 3 hours last night cleaning and prepping the cases one last > time. This morning I gathered up the recommended supplies, STP, motor oil, > oil squirt can, rubber mallet, moly lube, anti-seize compound, > form-a-gasket, white linen cotton shop towels and started assembly after > breakfast. > > It was a very enjoyable experience! I had fun. > > I took quite a few shots as I went along. They are on today's entry of my > construction log: here: > > http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/10-05-03.htm > > This week I'll be putting in the pistons/cylinders/heads. > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair engine cleaning
Date: Oct 07, 2003
Ken, When I first got my heads they were VERY dirty. The man who sold it to me told me it had been sitting for almost 20 years in a barn somwhere in the Pacific Northwest. It was caked on with crud, oil, and even found a couple rodent nests under the baffling. The first step in getting it clean was to pressure wahs it at the local car wash. That got the big chunks off. Then I bought about 4 cans of Easy Off oven cleaner. This stuff is awesome! Youhave to be very careful when you use it as it will attack aluminum. What I did was spray it on fairly generously and then let it sit for about 5 minutes. Then pressure wash it off. Do that about 4 or 5 times and the case and heads look silver almost like new. The next step in getting them really really clean is walnut shell blast them. Using my blasting cabinet and medium AD6B walnut shell media (which I got locally for $25 for a 50lb bag) I blasted them in every nook and cranny. Took me about 2 hours of blasting to get them perfectly clean. I did the same with the case. Under NO circumstance will you use glass bead or sand media. You will ruin the case and heads. Walnuts are very safe on aluminum.... althought you still must stay away from machined and/or gasket areas. The final step was a 1" wire brush in my hand drill. I went over the entire case and heads with it which gave them a slightly polished look. As you can see my heads are modified a la Pat Panzera & Mark Langford with the carb flange routed off and then polished and then a 90 degree intake pipe welded on. It pays to take the extra time to make your parts REALLY clean. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Rickards Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics DJ. How did you get your heads so clean? Ken GN1 2992 Canada = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. Ken, When I first got my heads they were VERY dirty. The man who sold it to me told me it had been sitting for almost 20 years in a barn somwhere in the Pacific Northwest. It was caked on with crud, oil, and even found a couple rodent nests under the baffling. The first step in getting it clean was to pressure wahs it at the local car wash. That got the big chunks off. Then I bought about 4 cans of Easy Off oven cleaner. This stuff is awesome! Youhave to be very careful when you use it as it will attack aluminum. What I did was spray it on fairly generously and then let it sit for about 5 minutes. Then pressure wash it off. Do that about 4 or 5 times and the case and heads look silver almost like new. The next step in getting them really really clean is walnut shell blast them. Using my blasting cabinet and medium AD6B walnut shell media (which I got locally for $25 for a 50lb bag) I blasted them in every nook and cranny. Took me about 2 hours of blasting to get them perfectly clean. I did the same with the case. Under NO circumstance will you use glass bead or sand media. You will ruin the case and heads. Walnuts are very safe on aluminum.... althought you still must stay away from machined and/or gasket areas. The final step was a 1" wire brush in my hand drill. I went over the entire case and heads with it which gave them a slightly polished look. As you can see my heads are modified a la Pat Panzera Mark Langford with the carb flange routed off and then polished and then a 90 degree intake pipe welded on. It pays to take the extra time to make your parts REALLY clean. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <A titlepietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca href"mailto:pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca">Ken Rickards href"mailto:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com">pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics -- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Rickards" pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca DJ. How did you get your heads so clean? Ken GN1 2992 Canada = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: shoulder harness
Date: Oct 07, 2003
I want to put a shoulder harness in my piet. The crossmember behind the pilot is low and I've heard that there are fears of spinal compression injuries in case of impact... which kind of makes sense. I'm thinking of reinforcing the turtle deck former behind the pilot and running the harness out of the very top of that and then running a cable back in the fuselage to some solid cluster or even to the tailskid/keel area. Passenger harness can obviously go to the cabanes so that's easy. What have you guys done or seen that works. My problem also is that I purchased a project and the fuselage is already covered but the guy made no provisions for seat belts of any kind so I've got to go in and retrofit something. thoughts?? Douwe Blumberg douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net I want to put a shoulder harness in my piet. The crossmember behind the pilot is low and I've heard that there are fears of spinal compression injuries in case of impact... which kind of makes sense. I'm thinking of reinforcing the turtle deck former behind the pilot and running the harness out of the very top of that and then running a cable back in the fuselage to some solid cluster or even to the tailskid/keel area. Passenger harness can obviously go to the cabanes so that's easy. What have you guys done or seen that works. My problem also is that I purchased a project and the fuselage is already covered but the guy made no provisions for seat belts of any kind so I've got to go in and retrofit something. thoughts?? Douwe Blumberg douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 07, 2003
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: shoulder harness
--0-1271371753-1065580409=:87529 Douwe Blumberg wrote:--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Douwe Blumberg" I want to put a shoulder harness in my piet. The crossmember behind the pilot is low and I've heard that there are fears of spinal compression injuries in case of impact... which kind of makes sense. I'm thinking of reinforcing the turtle deck former behind the pilot and running the harness out of the very top of that and then running a cable back in the fuselage to some solid cluster or even to the tailskid/keel area. Passenger harness can obviously go to the cabanes so that's easy. What have you guys done or seen that works. My problem also is that I purchased a project and the fuselage is already covered but the guy made no provisions for seat belts of any kind so I've got to go in and retrofit something. thoughts?? Douwe Blumberg douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net I've come to the conclusion that a cable to the tailwheel bolt is the best way to go. Drill a hole back by the tailwheel out of the bottom and stick a long rod all of the way thru the fuselage and pull it thru with the cable taped to one end. An aluminum formed head rest type of thing screwed to the top of the turtle deck looks cool and would be a place to support the shoulder belts at the right height for your shoulders. Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- --0-1271371753-1065580409=:87529 Douwe Blumberg douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net wrote:
-- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Douwe Blumberg" I want to put a shoulder harness in my piet. The crossmember behind the pilot is low and I've heard that there are fears of spinal compression injuries in case of impact... which kind of makes sense. I'm thinking of reinforcing the turtle deck former behind the pilot and running the harness out of the very top of that and then running a cable back in the fuselage to some solid cluster or even to the tailskid/keel area. Passenger harness can obviously go to the cabanes so that's easy. What have you guys done or seen that works. My problem also is that I purchased a project and the fuselage is already covered but the guy made no provisions for seat belts of any kind so I've got to go in and retrofit something. thoughts?? Douwe Blumberg douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net I've come to the conclusion that a cable to the tailwheel bolt is the best way to go. Drill a hole back by the tailwheel out ofthe bottom and stick a long rod all of the way thru the fuselage and pull it thru with the cable taped to one end. An aluminum formed head rest type of thing screwed to the top of the turtle deck looks cool and would be a place to support the shoulder belts at the right height for your shoulders. Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
--0-1271371753-1065580409=:87529-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Rickards" <pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca>
Subject: Re: Corvair engine cleaning
Date: Oct 08, 2003
Thanks DJ. Most helpful. I feel inspired enough to make a start on my engine this weekend. Ken GN1 2992 Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine cleaning > > > Ken, > > When I first got my heads they were VERY dirty. The man who sold it to > me told me it had been sitting for almost 20 years in a barn somwhere in > the Pacific Northwest. It was caked on with crud, oil, and even found > a couple rodent nests under the baffling. > > The first step in getting it clean was to pressure wahs it at the local > car wash. That got the big chunks off. Then I bought about 4 cans of > Easy Off oven cleaner. This stuff is awesome! Youhave to be very > careful when you use it as it will attack aluminum. What I did was > spray it on fairly generously and then let it sit for about 5 minutes. > Then pressure wash it off. Do that about 4 or 5 times and the case and > heads look silver almost like new. > > The next step in getting them really really clean is walnut shell blast > them. Using my blasting cabinet and medium AD6B walnut shell media > (which I got locally for $25 for a 50lb bag) I blasted them in every > nook and cranny. Took me about 2 hours of blasting to get them > perfectly clean. > > I did the same with the case. Under NO circumstance will you use glass > bead or sand media. You will ruin the case and heads. Walnuts are very > safe on aluminum.... althought you still must stay away from machined > and/or gasket areas. > > The final step was a 1" wire brush in my hand drill. I went over the > entire case and heads with it which gave them a slightly polished look. > > As you can see my heads are modified a la Pat Panzera & Mark Langford > with the carb flange routed off and then polished and then a 90 degree > intake pipe welded on. > > It pays to take the extra time to make your parts REALLY clean. > > DJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ken Rickards > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics > > > > > DJ. > > How did you get your heads so clean? > > Ken > > GN1 2992 > > Canada > > > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing b> y Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more > information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <
http://www.halfpriceh> osting.com/av.asp>.> > > > > > > > Ken, > > When I first got my heads they were > VERY > dirty. The man who sold it to me told me it had been sitting for > almost 20 > years in a barn somwhere in the Pacific Northwest. It was > caked on > with crud, oil, and even found a couple rodent nests under the > baffling. > > The first step in getting it clean was > to pressure > wahs it at the local car wash. That got the big chunks > off. > Then I bought about 4 cans of Easy Off oven cleaner. This stuff is > > awesome! Youhave to be very careful when you use it as it will > attack > aluminum. What I did was spray it on fairly generously and then > let it sit > for about 5 minutes. Then pressure wash it off. Do that > about 4 or 5 > times and the case and heads look silver almost like new. > > The next step in getting them really > really clean > is walnut shell blast them. Using my blasting cabinet and medium > AD6B > walnut shell media (which I got locally for $25 for a 50lb bag) I > blasted them > in every nook and cranny. Took me about 2 hours of blasting to get > them > perfectly clean. > > I did the same with the case. > Under NO > circumstance will you use glass bead or sand media. You will ruin > the case > and heads. Walnuts are very safe on aluminum.... althought you > still must > stay away from machined and/or gasket areas. > > The final step was a 1" wire brush in > my hand > drill. I went over the entire case and heads with it which gave > them a > slightly polished look. > > As you can see my heads are modified a > la Pat > Panzera Mark Langford with the carb flange routed off and then > polished > and then a 90 degree intake pipe welded on. > > It pays to take the extra time to make > your parts > REALLY clean. > > DJ > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <A > titlepietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca href"mailto:pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca">Ken > Rickards > > To: href"mailto:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com">pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 12:28 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine assembly! - pics > > > -- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Rickards" > href"mailto:pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca">pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca R>DJ. How > did you get your heads so clean? Ken GN1 > 2992 Canada > > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing b> y Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more > information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpriceh> osting.com/av.asp>.> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 09, 2003
Subject: Re: shoulder harness
In a message dated 10/7/03 7:34:47 PM Central Daylight Time, douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes: << I want to put a shoulder harness in my piet. The crossmember behind the pilot is low and I've heard that there are fears of spinal compression injuries in case of impact... which kind of makes sense. I'm thinking of reinforcing the turtle deck former behind the pilot and running the harness out of the very top of that and then running a cable back in the fuselage to some solid cluster or even to the tailskid/keel area. Passenger harness can obviously go to the cabanes so that's easy. What have you guys done or seen that works. My problem also is that I purchased a project and the fuselage is already covered but the guy made no provisions for seat belts of any kind so I've got to go in and retrofit something. thoughts?? >> Douwe, A design criteria of a shoulder harness is that it runs straight back from the shoulders of the occupant, to prevent spinal compression. I ran a 3/32" cable from an eye bolt with a large washer, through the tail post, to the fittings on the end of the shoulder harness. This put the harness above the turtle deck, so I built a head rest out of fiberglass, to enclose it. It's not quite straight back, but angled down just a few degrees. As for the passenger, Gene makes a good poing about the top of the cabane struts, but I don't see any other way to terminate them, and maintain the correct angle. I'm planning on terminating the passenger harness to the top of the cabane struts, unless someone has a better idea. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: shoulder harness
Date: Oct 09, 2003
Thanks for all the good input on shoulder harness. I wasn't thinking of running them to the top of the cabanes, I thought tying into the fittings down by the top longeron might work. Thanks for all the good input on shoulder harness. I wasn't thinking of running them to the top of the cabanes, I thought tying into the fittings down by the top longeron might work. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: shoulder harness
Date: Oct 09, 2003
----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: shoulder harness ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Douwe and other Pieters, Just a last thought on the shoulder harness issue----have you thought of just lowering the seat? I lowered mine 1 1/2" and it makes all the difference in the world, shoulder harness OK, room for padding your butt if needed, less propwash, and you don't look like you are sitting on the plane rather than in the plane. The only drawback is less foward visibility, but you get used to this quickly. Think about it. John Dilatush, NX114D Salida, Colorado +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > Thanks for all the good input on shoulder harness. I wasn't thinking of > running them to the top of the cabanes, I thought tying into the > fittings down by the top longeron might work. > > > > > > > Thanks for all the good input on > shoulder > harness. I wasn't thinking of running them to the top of the > cabanes, I > thought tying into the fittings down by the top longeron might > work. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Front shoulder harness
Date: Oct 09, 2003
From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com>
Gene Rambo wrote: "I'm not so sure that tieing the front harness to the cabanes is such a no-brainer. In a crash, the wing is almost certainly to take a hit. If either wingtip hits something and shoves the wing aft, and if the front shoulder harness is attached to the top of the cabanes, you are going to strain the front passenger through the belt. I think keeping the belts tied to the fuselage (not that I know HOW to do that) is the proper thing to do." And Chuck G. wrote: "As for the passenger, Gene makes a good point about the top of the cabane struts, but I don't see any other way to terminate them, and maintain the correct angle." I'll explain the dumbest way to hook up the front shoulder harness. As high up as possible on the front seat back, cut two slots spread appropriately for the straps to come through. Unless you carry a tall person up front routinely, this should be close to above many peoples' shoulders. On the backside of that plywood panel, glue two vertical supports down to structure. Attach cables that run at an angle over to each side and follow structure down to the lap belt attach point of the rear seat. When running down the structure, the cable is attached to keep it from getting in the pilots way but in an accident, this would act as a zip-cord and pull straight. Check both attached and unattached to see how much it adds to the slack and how it routes behind the instrument panel. You'll be surprised how little length is gained. Probably the biggest challenge is routing through all the gryo-instruments and radio stack behind the instrument panel. I know this is the dumbest way to hook up the front shoulder harness, because I've routed mine that way and people have commented on how simple and effective it looks. I refuse to test it however, so copy the idea at your own risk. I've seen one installation were there's simply a cable stretched between the cabanes and the cable and thus the shoulder harness could easily be removed when not carrying a passenger which would really be nice. I almost went this route but had the same concerns that both Gene and Chuck mentioned. The important thing (IMHO) is to provide the protection. The key is that the attach point can be anywhere; it's the fulcrum (for lack of better term) that's important in the design. That's why automobile seatbelts have a loop on the door jam or headrest for the shoulder harness to pass through even though they may attach lower than your shoulders. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I probably should have sent a picture. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: shoulder harness
Date: Oct 09, 2003
From: "Ken Chambers" <kchambers(at)winternals.com>
The Brits have another way of doing the passenger shoulder harness, but it's not simple. It involves a welded steal assembly and reinforcements. One of the UK Aircamper members was kind enough to send a diagram, but I misplaced it a couple of moves ago. Let me know if you'd like to see it and I'll try again to find it, copy it, and send it to you. Or perhaps if any of our English friends are reading they might send something to the list download page? I thought I would hook my passenger belts to the cabanes, but that's an interesting point about the wings wrenching around in a crash. Ken in Austin, sitting on finished seats and making engine noises with my little boy. http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> The Brits have another way of doing the passenger shoulder harness, but its not simple. It involves a welded steal assembly and reinforcements. One of the UK Aircamper members was kind enough to send a diagram, but I misplaced it a couple of moves ago. Let me know if youd like to see it and Ill try again to find it, copy it, and send it to you. Or perhaps if any of our English friends are reading they might send something to the list download page? I thought I would hook my passenger belts to the cabanes, but thats an interesting point about the wings wrenching around in a crash. Ken in Austin, sitting on finished seats and making engine noises with my little boy. =00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: shoulder harness
Date: Oct 09, 2003
From: "Ken Chambers" <kchambers(at)winternals.com>
Here's a link with a small diagram and more information on the PFA-approved seat belt harness: http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~csellen/May%202001.htm http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> Heres a link with a small diagram and more information on the PFA-approved seat belt harness: http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~csellen/May%202001.htm> =00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Hannan" <isp.inc(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Front shoulder harness
Date: Oct 09, 2003
Do you have pictures of the seat belts? Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Front shoulder harness > > Gene Rambo wrote: > "I'm not so sure that tieing the front harness to the cabanes is such a > no-brainer. In a crash, the wing is almost certainly to take a hit. If either wingtip hits something and shoves the wing aft, and if the front shoulder harness is attached to the top of the cabanes, you are going to strain the front passenger through the belt. I think keeping the belts tied to the fuselage (not that I know HOW to do that) is the proper thing to do." > > And Chuck G. wrote: > "As for the passenger, Gene makes a good point about the top of the cabane struts, but I don't see any other way to terminate them, and maintain the correct angle." > > > I'll explain the dumbest way to hook up the front shoulder harness. As high up as possible on the front seat back, cut two slots spread appropriately for the straps to come through. Unless you carry a tall person up front routinely, this should be close to above many peoples' shoulders. On the backside of that plywood panel, glue two vertical supports down to structure. Attach cables that run at an angle over to each side and follow structure down to the lap belt attach point of the rear seat. When running down the structure, the cable is attached to keep it from getting in the pilots way but in an accident, this would act as a zip-cord and pull straight. Check both attached and unattached to see how much it adds to the slack and how it routes behind the instrument panel. You'll be surprised how little length is gained. Probably the biggest challenge is routing through all the gryo-instruments and radio stack behind the instrument panel. > > I know this is the dumbest way to hook up the front shoulder harness, because I've routed mine that way and people have commented on how simple and effective it looks. I refuse to test it however, so copy the idea at your own risk. > > I've seen one installation were there's simply a cable stretched between the cabanes and the cable and thus the shoulder harness could easily be removed when not carrying a passenger which would really be nice. I almost went this route but had the same concerns that both Gene and Chuck mentioned. > > The important thing (IMHO) is to provide the protection. The key is that the attach point can be anywhere; it's the fulcrum (for lack of better term) that's important in the design. That's why automobile seatbelts have a loop on the door jam or headrest for the shoulder harness to pass through even though they may attach lower than your shoulders. > > They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I probably should have sent a picture. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 09, 2003
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 10/08/03
Gene - Thanks a lot for that great observation about putting the belt on the cabanes. I will certainly take it to heart, and find another way of mounting my belts for the front. I already have the rear belt going to the tail section. Carl L @ Compton Airport ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 10, 2003
Subject: Re: shoulder harness
In a message dated 10/9/03 12:26:47 PM Central Daylight Time, kchambers(at)winternals.com writes: << Or perhaps if any of our English friends are reading they might send something to the list download page? >> I used the link that Ken sent, but the diagram is not very ledgible. William, a picture from you would also be very helpful. I am very interested in the Brit's method. I'm to the point of adding this harness, so as to give others the 'Pietenpol Experience'. Chuck Gantzer tuesday evening, closed traffic, dozen landings, two on hard surface narrow runway - lovin' it !!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2003
From: "" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Re: shoulder harness
I have a copy of the British seat belt and harness installation method. If anyone wants me to scan it and send them a copy just let me know. It's about 6 pages long I think. I cant do it until tomorrow (Friday) night though. Chris Sacramento, Ca. Quoting Ken Chambers : > > > > The Brits have another way of doing the passenger shoulder harness, but > it's not simple. It involves a welded steal assembly and reinforcements. > > > One of the UK Aircamper members was kind enough to send a diagram, but I > misplaced it a couple of moves ago. Let me know if you'd like to see it > and I'll try again to find it, copy it, and send it to you. Or perhaps > if any of our English friends are reading they might send something to > the list download page? > > I thought I would hook my passenger belts to the cabanes, but that's an > interesting point about the wings wrenching around in a crash. > > Ken in Austin, sitting on finished seats and making engine noises with > my little boy. > > > xmlns:w"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" > xmlns:st1"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" > xmlns"
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> > > > > > > > namespaceuri"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" > name"City"/> > namespaceuri"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" > name"place"/> > > > > > > style'tab-interval:.5in'> > > > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Arial'>The Brits have another way of doing the passenger > shoulder > harness, but its not simple. It involves a welded steal assembly > and > reinforcements. > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Arial'> > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Arial'>One of the UK Aircamper > members > was kind enough to send a diagram, but I misplaced it a couple of moves > ago. > Let me know if youd like to see it and Ill try again to > find it, > copy it, and send it to you. Or perhaps if any of our English friends > are > reading they might send something to the list download page? > > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Arial'> > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Arial'>I thought I would hook my passenger belts to the > classSpellE>cabanes, but thats an interesting point > about the > wings wrenching around in a crash. > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Arial'> > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Arial'>Ken in size2 > faceArial> style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Austin ace> size2 faceArial> style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>, sitting on > finished seats and making engine noises with my little boy. > > > > > > > > =00 > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2003
From: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Titanium
Here's a couple of links for those interested in this stuff http://www.titaniumjoe.com/ http://titanium.net/GIsec2b.htm Here's a couple of links for those interested in this stuff http://www.titaniumjoe.com/ http://titanium.net/GIsec2b.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Hannan" <isp.inc(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: shoulder harness
Date: Oct 10, 2003
Chris can you email a copy to me? Thanks Ken Hannan Temecula, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: <catdesign(at)intergate.com> Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: Pietenpol-List: shoulder harness > > I have a copy of the British seat belt and harness installation > method. If anyone wants me to scan it and send them a copy just let me know. > It's about 6 pages long I think. I cant do it until tomorrow (Friday) night > though. > > Chris > Sacramento, Ca. > > > Quoting Ken Chambers : > > > > > > > > > The Brits have another way of doing the passenger shoulder harness, but > > it's not simple. It involves a welded steal assembly and reinforcements. > > > > > > One of the UK Aircamper members was kind enough to send a diagram, but I > > misplaced it a couple of moves ago. Let me know if you'd like to see it > > and I'll try again to find it, copy it, and send it to you. Or perhaps > > if any of our English friends are reading they might send something to > > the list download page? > > > > I thought I would hook my passenger belts to the cabanes, but that's an > > interesting point about the wings wrenching around in a crash. > > > > Ken in Austin, sitting on finished seats and making engine noises with > > my little boy. > > > > > > > xmlns:w"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" > > xmlns:st1"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" > > xmlns"
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > namespaceuri"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" > > name"City"/> > > > namespaceuri"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" > > name"place"/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > style'tab-interval:.5in'> > > > > > > > > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > > font-family:Arial'>The Brits have another way of doing the passenger > > shoulder > > harness, but its not simple. It involves a welded steal assembly > > and > > reinforcements. > > > > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > > font-family:Arial'> > > > > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > > font-family:Arial'>One of the UK Aircamper > > members > > was kind enough to send a diagram, but I misplaced it a couple of moves > > ago. > > Let me know if youd like to see it and Ill try again to > > find it, > > copy it, and send it to you. Or perhaps if any of our English friends > > are > > reading they might send something to the list download page? > > > > > > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > > font-family:Arial'> > > > > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > > font-family:Arial'>I thought I would hook my passenger belts to the > > > classSpellE>cabanes, but thats an interesting point > > about the > > wings wrenching around in a crash. > > > > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > > font-family:Arial'> > > > > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > > font-family:Arial'>Ken in > size2 > > faceArial> > style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Austin > ace> > size2 faceArial> > style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>, sitting on > > finished seats and making engine noises with my little boy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Front shoulder harness
Date: Oct 10, 2003
From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com>
Ken Hannan wrote: Do you have pictures of the seat belts? ----------------------------- Chuck Gantzer wrote: I used the link that Ken sent, but the diagram is not very ledgible. William, a picture from you would also be very helpful. I am very interested in the Brit's method. I'm to the point of adding this harness, so as to give others the 'Pietenpol Experience'. ----------------------------- Ken and Chuck, I'll try to take pictures over this weekend. It will require some disassembly and the shop is currently full of Boredom Fighter project parts but I should be able to shift things around. I played with a bridge system something like the Brit's that was to be close to the Model-A radiator support but the eyeball-engineering department canceled the project. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2003
From: javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: shoulder harness
Hi Piet's I Chris..can you send me a copy too? Thanks in advance Javier Cruz} __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: GN-1 plans for $25
Date: Oct 12, 2003
guys, this showed up on flitzer list just now. Original GN-1 plans for 25 bucks... chris bobka -----Original Message----- From: Peillet-Long [mailto:owlnmole(at)yahoo.com] DA2A(at)yahoogroups.com; Flitzer-Builders(at)yahoogroups.com; Smallboats(at)yahoogroups.com; volksplane(at)yahoogroups.com Subject: [Flitzer-Builders] OT: Cleaning out my files My job involves moving every few years, so I recently went through my boat and airplane plans. I am quite sure that I will never build either of these, so they are for sale for $25 each, postage paid in the continental USA. These are original plans purchased from the designers, numbered if appropriate, so I have only one of each to sell. Jim Michalak 13.5' IMB cabin sailboat Here is a link to a description of the boat on Jim's marvelous little online newsletter: http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/1nov02.htm#IMB Grega GN-1 two-seat parasol open-cockpit airplane I don't know if Mr. Grega has a web site, or even if he is still with us, but here is one owner/builder's site: http://bconoly.tripod.com/ I should probably part with a few more, but that's all I can bear for now. As I am posting this to several amateur boat and airplane building groups, PLEASE RESPOND DIRECTLY TO ME so as not to clog up the groups with unwanted messages. Thanks and regards, Matthew Long ===== Agnes, Matthew, Fletcher & Sully Peillet-Long Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic http://www.geocities.com/owlnmole/ __________________________________ For Flitzer FAQs and much more, visit the Flitzer Sportflug Verein (Flitzer Sport Flying Association) site at http://www.av8rblake.com/flitzer/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Flitzer-Builders-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Tailwheel Choice
Date: Oct 14, 2003
We are trying to decide on the type and brand of tail wheel to order. Is a 4" or 6" preferred? What brand seems to work the best? I think we have decided on a lockable tailwheel. Any help will be appreciated. Barry Davis ps We left Thomasville at noon on Saturday. The tent is still dripping water from all the rain, but we had fun and there were 2 Piets in very wet attendance. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Textor" <jack(at)personnelincorporated.com>
Subject: Capstrip grain orientation??
Date: Oct 14, 2003
Sorry a basic question, checked archives and the booksWhat is the correct orientation of grain for capstrips? Longerons and braces for that matter too. Thanks in advance! Jack ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gnwac(at)cs.com
Date: Oct 14, 2003
Subject: Re: Tailwheel Choice
Ref Tail Wheel- I've talked to builders that say to big a t.w. when added to the plans assembly will raise the tail /lower the nose to much. The plans tw is enough. Others say it's no big deal. I'm not at that stage yet, but I'll continue to read and listen and make my choice later. I know though, an actual skid is not what I want to use. Greg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Capstrip grain orientation??
Date: Oct 14, 2003
crosswise, but that would have to be one wide-a**ed board! LOL Gene Rambo and Al Latham ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Textor" <jack(at)personnelincorporated.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Capstrip grain orientation?? > > Sorry a basic question, checked archives and the booksWhat is the correct > orientation of grain for capstrips? Longerons and braces for that matter > too. > Thanks in advance! > Jack > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwheel Choice
Date: Oct 14, 2003
I had bought from AS&S a tailwheel only, and then after looking at many different setups, just started cutting and welding. First it was a mock-up, then figured it'll be a test wheel. Now it's flying, and have no reason to change cause it turns on a dime, and all around handles fine. Guess I got the "caster/camber " OK : } That's one of those parts while building that you figure will never take the pounding of landing, the long swing arms and coil spring and all, but it has lasted great. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: <Gnwac(at)cs.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Choice > > Ref Tail Wheel- > I've talked to builders that say to big a t.w. when added to the plans > assembly will raise the tail /lower the nose to much. The plans tw is enough. > Others say it's no big deal. I'm not at that stage yet, but I'll continue to read > and listen and make my choice later. > > I know though, an actual skid is not what I want to use. > > Greg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwheel Choice
Date: Oct 14, 2003
I bought the Keri-Ann Price tailwheel plans. It is very heavy duty, and kind of heavy. I like the titanium rod set up like on a Sonex, does anyone have just the tailwheel plans? Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Choice > > I had bought from AS&S a tailwheel only, and then after looking at many > different setups, just started cutting and welding. First it was a mock-up, > then figured it'll be a test wheel. Now it's flying, and have no reason to > change cause it turns on a dime, and all around handles fine. Guess I got > the "caster/camber " OK : > } > That's one of those parts while building that you figure will never take > the pounding of landing, the long swing arms and coil spring and all, but it > has lasted great. > walt evans > NX140DL > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Gnwac(at)cs.com> > To: > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Choice > > > > > > Ref Tail Wheel- > > I've talked to builders that say to big a t.w. when added to the plans > > assembly will raise the tail /lower the nose to much. The plans tw is > enough. > > Others say it's no big deal. I'm not at that stage yet, but I'll continue > to read > > and listen and make my choice later. > > > > I know though, an actual skid is not what I want to use. > > > > Greg > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2003
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwheel Choice
Dennis Engelkenjohn wrote: I bought the Keri-Ann Price tailwheel plans. It is very heavy duty, and kind of heavy. I like the titanium rod set up like on a Sonex, does anyone have just the tailwheel plans? Dennis ----- Original Message ----- Nothing to it, just make it like the picture http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=157 Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 15, 2003
Subject: Re: Tailwheel Choice
In a message dated 10/14/03 9:07:24 PM Central Daylight Time, wbeevans(at)verizon.net writes: << I had bought from AS&S a tailwheel only, and then after looking at many different setups, just started cutting and welding. First it was a mock-up, then figured it'll be a test wheel. Now it's flying, and have no reason to change cause it turns on a dime, and all around handles fine. Guess I got the "caster/camber " OK : } That's one of those parts while building that you figure will never take the pounding of landing, the long swing arms and coil spring and all, but it has lasted great. walt evans NX140DL >> That's similar to how I did it. Only difference, is I bought a 3 1/2" wheel at Harbor Freight, with the tough solid rubber tire, and modified my existing plans built tail skid, using 5/8" x .060 wall tubing, to make the wheel support on one side only. Picks up less grass & stuff. I also made it to keep the tail as low as possible. I removed the ball bearings from the tire, and used bronze oilite bearings for the tire, and the pivot point. I used 1/16" cable from the tailwheel horn to the rudder bar. I made brackets that wrap around the rudder bar, about 2" outboard of the pivot point of the rudder bar. If need be, I could adjust these wrap around brackets inbd or otbd to adjust the ratio of the tailwheel pivot. However, it seems to work fine the way it is. My brakes, and tailwheel are working good, and now I can operate on Hard Surface runways !! I still prefer grass, though...much more forgiving. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: water temp attach point
Date: Oct 15, 2003
This is one for you Model A flyers... Where on the motor have you chosen to plug in the water temp. I've heard using the head, but I'm wondering why one couldn't use use a more stationary point like right before the water goes into the radiator. This wouldn't vibrate, would be cleaner looking and should still give an accurate reading, right? douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 15, 2003
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: water temp attach point
I am not a model A driver, but I think from an design standpoint, you would be most interested in the temperature of water being supplied to the engine after cooling by the radiator. Otherwise, you cannot be sure that you have proper cooling. Thats how we design oil cooler systems and liquid cooling systems for the high performance piston engines in the aircraft mod business. Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Hannan" <isp.inc(at)verizon.net>
Subject: prop info
Date: Oct 16, 2003
Hegy props http://www.flygliders.com/hegy_wood_props.htm has any buddy purchased a prop from this company? Ken H ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: prop info
Date: Oct 16, 2003
I haven't..... but I did get a prop from Tennesee Props. WOW! what a quality piece! It was made from 48 1/16th" laminations. yes thats right! 48 laminations. Clear urethane leading edges and shipped to my door for $530. In my opinion it's one of the best props out there for that price. The quality rivals that of a certified wood prop. www.tn-prop.com DJ Vegh ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Hannan Subject: Pietenpol-List: prop info Hegy props http://www.flygliders.com/hegy_wood_props.htm has any buddy purchased a prop from this company? Ken H = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 16, 2003
Subject: Re: prop info
Ken, In answer to your inquiry of Hegy props I can say yes I have one on 41CC. It is birch and is a very beautiful piece of workmanship. Mr Hegy and I decided a 72-42 would be the most efficient for a Piet with a 65 Continental. We are happy with the performance. His price was $500 plus Fed Ex. Corky in La By the way, on another subject, have any of you noticed the total absence of any discussion by our leaders,????????????????????????, Aopa, Eaa, Aarp, Naacp, or any other of the nationals who are so dedicated, with the help of our annuals, to helping us with all kinds of small problems, on the proposed Sport Pilot ruling. Someone somewhere decided to sweep in under the rug for awhile. Something's going on and I really don't like the scent of it. Better get our Congressional address book out again and lick some stamps Corky in La again, running out of time ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 17, 2003
Subject: Re: prop info
In a message dated 10/16/03 11:26:53 PM Central Daylight Time, ggower_99(at)yahoo.com writes: << Since he passed away I carved my last two propellers, I always wanted to give it a try... Is a great experience to build the plane, build the engine and carve the propeller... Well the 1/2 VW engine didnt had the power at our 5,000 ft ASL grass strip, and was changed fo a Rotax 447, and of course another prop was carved... By the way I used the Cluton's book. >> Gary, I've also built three props using the Cluton's book. For a long time, I've been considering building a Scimitar prop, using the method described in the Eric Cluton's guidlines. Do you know anyone that built this Scimitar prop ?? Chuck Gantzer ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 17, 2003
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: prop info
Chuck, Where can I get a copy of Cluton's book? Whats the name of the book? Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 17, 2003
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: prop info
No, The only Scimatar props I have read comments are with projects in France, I will like to give it a try soon, just need to read more about it to design it well, I dont want it to brake in flight... I did tried the Hess "almost constant speed propeller" method, in one propeler (number two) it worked fine, suposed to get 2" more of pitch in take off, so the climb and cruise range will be wider... In that plane I had no previous prop to compare, but was a very smooth ride and performed well, The engine was sold with the prop with only about 8 hours, I like this props. Carlos mi airplane partner, likes better the Cluton's method, so when the next prop is needed I think will be a Cluton, "less wood to cut off and works great, what we want?" He said once... We have lots of fun with our hobby, I hate to have to work for a living :-) :-) two more kids to go to College left... Saludos Gary Gower. --- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 10/16/03 11:26:53 PM Central Daylight Time, > ggower_99(at)yahoo.com writes: > > << Since he passed away I carved my last two propellers, I always > wanted > to give it a try... > Is a great experience to build the plane, build the engine and > carve > the propeller... Well the 1/2 VW engine didnt had the power at our > 5,000 ft ASL grass strip, and was changed fo a Rotax 447, and of > course > another prop was carved... > By the way I used the Cluton's book. >> > > Gary, > I've also built three props using the Cluton's book. For a long > time, I've > been considering building a Scimitar prop, using the method described > in the > Eric Cluton's guidlines. Do you know anyone that built this Scimitar > prop ?? > > Chuck Gantzer > > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 17, 2003
From: "catdesign(at)intergate.com" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Re: shoulder harness
Did you receive the seat belt plans I sent out? If not I will send them again. Chris T. Sacramento, Ca Quoting javier cruz : > > Hi Piet's > > I Chris..can you send me a copy too? > > Thanks in advance > > Javier Cruz} > > > __________________________________ > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wooden split axle
Date: Oct 17, 2003
From: "Ken Chambers" <kchambers(at)winternals.com>
There's been a real shortage of hair-brained ideas lately. And that leads to a shortage of righteous flaming. To increase messages in both categories, let me ask this: Would it be possible to make the Vs of the split-axle landing gear from laminated ash? Anyone have any specific information (pounds per square inch etc.) that would rule this out? Seems within the realm of possibility, since the Flybaby gets away with wooden landing gear without springs or bungees, but just big thick tires. Of course it's wire braced, but still... Ken in Austin, waiting to close on a house with a two-car workshop. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com>
Subject: Wooden split axle
Date: Oct 17, 2003
I can certainly believe that you could make the Vees from wood--the loads would be about the same as for the straight axle. The problem would be in the moments involved in attaching the stub axles to a wooden Vee. With a straight axle, it's not a problem, there's no bending moment transfered to the wood; everything is (almost) in compression. With the split axle, there will be a whole lot of torque, one way or another, when a wheel starts taking load. It is approximately balanced by the extension for the shock absorber strut, but will still be sensitive to bounces and side loads. Maybe a REALLY BIG gusset on the bottom of the Vee would work. Gene -----Original Message----- From: Ken Chambers [mailto:kchambers(at)winternals.com] Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wooden split axle There's been a real shortage of hair-brained ideas lately. And that leads to a shortage of righteous flaming. To increase messages in both categories, let me ask this: Would it be possible to make the Vs of the split-axle landing gear from laminated ash? Anyone have any specific information (pounds per square inch etc.) that would rule this out? Seems within the realm of possibility, since the Flybaby gets away with wooden landing gear without springs or bungees, but just big thick tires. Of course it's wire braced, but still... Ken in Austin, waiting to close on a house with a two-car workshop. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 18, 2003
Subject: Re: prop info
In a message dated 10/17/03 8:58:20 AM Central Daylight Time, BARNSTMR(at)aol.com writes: << Chuck, Where can I get a copy of Cluton's book? Whats the name of the book? >> Terry, et all, The name of the book is 'Propeller Making for the Amature' by Eric Clutton. He's British. You can get it from EAA library, and it only costs about 8 bucks or so. It is a MUST READ TWICE if you are even thinking about building a prop. He gives building methods & tips, and all the formulas for estimating the pitch and diameter for a given horsepower / airframe, but he notes a preferred method is to use previous a successful combination of Prop / Powerplant / Airframe. He goes into detail how to build a Scimitar Prop - where the blade tips are swept back quite a bit. I've done some research on this type of prop, but for the life of me I can't figure out why everybody doesn't use this design prop. There are six Scimitar Props hanging in Steve Wittman's hanger. It's like an automatic blade pitch, with no moving parts. At high R.P.M. for take off, using cintrifugal force and aerodynamic twisting force the wood prop blade angle is reduced for more thrust. When airborn and power is reduced, the prop 'unloads', the blade angle relax's and you have a higher blade angle for more efficient cruise. What more could you want ??? !!! To be honest, it would require quite a bit more work to build one using the 'Cluton' method, and I suppose with all the flexing the blades are exposed to, there would be more of a chance for a blade to fail. I did read one story about a W W 1 pilot that had a Scimitar prop. It seems his opponent was on his tail slinging lead at him, so he went into a full power dive. Overspeed the engine, and over ran the prop when the blades began to 'flutter' just before a blade failed and broke off. He was having a bad day. Not sure if he made it. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 18, 2003
Subject: Re: prop info
Chuck...I don't know if this is the kind of input you want at this stage, but I have a 3/4 scale reproduction of a 1917 Paragon propeller which was hand carved from mahogany by the guy I bought a Pietenpol project from. It is a scimitar which is 75" long. I understand that the original propeller was used on an airship. I have a picture of it, but no data. I don't see how this can be of much help to you except inspiration...It's beautiful.....Carl Vought.....do not archive ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lynn & Doris Knoll" <dknoll(at)cox.net>
Subject: Firewall Bulkhead Insulation
Date: Oct 18, 2003
Tony B. recommends a layer of fabric called ZETEX be installed behind the metal firewall. I emailed the Newtex Corp. for info but no response. What did you guys use? Lynn Knoll Wichita ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 18, 2003
Subject: [ Bill Sayre ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Bill Sayre Subject: Front shoulder harness http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/william.g.sayre@boeing.com.10.18.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: prop info
Date: Oct 18, 2003
I forgot to mention (about my Tennessee Props prop) that I have painted the prop tips yellow to provide a visible arc to help ground recognition when the engine is running, and also painted the backsides of the blades flat black to cut any glare or reflections back into my eyes. Wouldn't want to lose sight of Der Faker Fokker in my gunsights ahead if there is some glare off the prop ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net Never get a busy signal because you are always connected with high-speed Internet access. Click here to comparison-shop providers. https://broadband.msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 19, 2003
Subject: Prop Info
In a message dated 10/17/03 8:58:20 AM Central Daylight Time, BARNSTMR(at)aol.com writes: << Chuck, Where can I get a copy of Cluton's book? Whats the name of the book? >> Terry, et all, The name of the book is 'Propeller Making for the Amature' by Eric Clutton. He's British. You can get it from EAA library, and it only costs about 8 bucks or so. It is a MUST READ TWICE if you are even thinking about building a prop. He gives building methods & tips, and all the formulas for estimating the pitch and diameter for a given horsepower / airframe, but he notes


September 18, 2003 - October 19, 2003

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dk