Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dl
October 19, 2003 - November 08, 2003
a
preferred method is to use previous a successful combination of Prop / Powerplant
/ Airframe.
He goes into a little detail about how to build a Scimitar Prop - where
the blade tips are swept back quite a bit. I've done some research on this
type of prop, but for the life of me I can't figure out why everybody doesn't use
this design prop. There are six Scimitar Props hanging in Steve Wittman's
hanger. It's like an automatic blade pitch, with no moving parts. At high
R.P.M. for take off, using cintrifugal force and aerodynamic twisting force the
wood prop blade angle is reduced for more thrust. When airborn and power is
reduced, the prop 'unloads', the blade angle relax's and you have a higher blade
angle for more efficient cruise. What more could you want ??? !!! To be
honest, it would require quite a bit more work to build one using the 'Cluton'
method, and I suppose with all the flexing the blades are exposed to, there
would be more of a chance for a blade to fail.
I did read one story about a W W 1 pilot that had a Scimitar prop. It
seems his opponent was on his tail slinging lead at him, so he went into a full
power dive. Overspeed the engine, and over ran the prop when the blades began
to 'flutter' just before a blade failed and broke off. He was having a bad
day. Not sure if he made it.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Great book but what about Al Schuberts book that Kirk has uploaded to
Mykitplane for us? Remember in past discussions that Bernard REALLY
liked the prop Al made for him.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=5
The file is down the page, #4, Very long PDF. Worth every penny.
Clif----
Remember when sex was safe and flying was dangerous?
< Chuck,
> Where can I get a copy of Cluton's book? Whats the name of the book? >>
>
> Terry, et all,
> The name of the book is 'Propeller Making for the Amature' by Eric
> Clutton. He's British. You can get it from EAA library, and it only
costs about 8
> bucks or so. It is a MUST READ TWICE if you are even thinking about
building
> a prop. He gives building methods & tips, and all the formulas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Back in the really old " good old days " carburetors just hung off
the engines in that nice warm cowling until one day, in the good
old USA, the new CAA came along and said " No, no, you must
have an intake tube outside that cowl. We don't want any more
planes burning up from backfires." so it was done.
Planes fell out of the sky at an alarming rate. New problem, carb ice.
Any possibility of a backfire in that lovingly built sonex?
Do I want my Piet flying to pieces on the ground or falling out of
the sky silently?
Listen to Uncle Pat.
Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Nice work, Bill Sayre ! |
Bill--- very nice photos and work. Looks clean and mean, brother !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Bill's photos here: |
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/william.g.sayre@boeing.com.10.18.2003/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wooden split axle |
| From: | "Ken Chambers" <kchambers(at)winternals.com> |
Gene
I thought about adding extra laminations in the axle area and then a big
plywood gusset on both sides. But it might get so thick that it ruins
the look of the gear - which is what the wood V idea is all about. I'll
have to sketch this out and think about.
Meanwhile, I'm close to testing a laminated tail spring. I've been
slowly steaming and bending three pieces of poplar into the right shape.
If it's dried out enough, I'll glue it up tonight. I'll let it dry for a
few days and then I'm going to jump up and down on it. At 180 pounds, I
should exceed the loads it would experience in landing. If it survives,
I'll report to the list.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
| Subject: | Wooden split axle |
The laminated tailspring sounds like fun! Let us know how it turns out. I
forgot--are you doing a skid or wheel? A steel shoe seems like it would
work fine for a skid--a wheel could have the same design challenges as the
main gear.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Chambers [mailto:kchambers(at)winternals.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wooden split axle
Gene
I thought about adding extra laminations in the axle area and then a big
plywood gusset on both sides. But it might get so thick that it ruins
the look of the gear - which is what the wood V idea is all about. I'll
have to sketch this out and think about.
Meanwhile, I'm close to testing a laminated tail spring. I've been
slowly steaming and bending three pieces of poplar into the right shape.
If it's dried out enough, I'll glue it up tonight. I'll let it dry for a
few days and then I'm going to jump up and down on it. At 180 pounds, I
should exceed the loads it would experience in landing. If it survives,
I'll report to the list.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Piet - Weight Loss program |
YeeeHaawww. I logged .5 hrs today in LH seat of a 1937 Taylorcraft BC-65.
BeeeeeUtifull weather down here in Texas. Flew formation with the mosquitos
just before sundown. Not a cloud in the sky...barely a puff of wind in the cool
evening. What a way to enjoy all of God's creation. Not the same as a
Piet....but helps me keep the enthusiasm up.
This past weekend, I set out on a mission to lighten up the Piet by carving
out some portions of the massive 1 inch plywood firewall installed by the
original project builder. I think I am going to end up trimming around 4 or 5
pounds. That is assuming I am able to get all the sawdust out of the belly. I
hope to start cutting instrument panel holes this coming week.
Now, I just need to put myself on a weight savings program.
I did make some progress today too....scrounged up all the landing gear
bolts....finally getting the gear back together after massive re-work. We now
have
a new spring gear similar to the Hatz design. My partner Lon did the welding
and has really mastered the art. We purchased springs from McMaster Carr
after a lot of enthusiastic guidance on spring selection from several of you on
the list. Thanks guys. Lon has also been tinkering with the throttle
installation and its going to be a modified Hatz design too. One of these days
if we
keep on tinkering with all of this, we'll get there.
Terry B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatthe1(at)rochester.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet - Weight Loss program |
At 10:26 PM 10/20/2003, you wrote:
>
>YeeeHaawww. I logged .5 hrs today in LH seat of a 1937 Taylorcraft BC-65.
>BeeeeeUtifull weather down here in Texas. Flew formation with the mosquitos
>just before sundown. Not a cloud in the sky...barely a puff of wind in
>the cool
>evening. What a way to enjoy all of God's creation. Not the same as a
>Piet....but helps me keep the enthusiasm up.
Terry,
Now you know flying. Wish I was down there now for the decent
weather. Pre-war Taylorcraft is the best.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Rickards" <pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca> |
If anyone is interested , I just updated my web site with some more engine
pics. DJ, did you "Helicoil" any of your cylinder studs? If so, did you do
them yourself of have a machine shop do them? Just wondering how difficult
they are to do!
Ken
GN1 2992
Canada
http://home.cogeco.ca/~pietbuilder/Engine.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <jack(at)personnelincorporated.com> |
Slowly but surely getting started. I'm contemplating two spar designs.
I've read the books, articles and archives, but would appreciate any group
comments. Which design would be stronger? 1st - solid spruce, or, 2nd -
built up I beam, utilizing spruce edged with 1 x spruce strips, both
sides, top and bottom, glued and not nailed.
Thanks!
Jack Textor
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Studs |
Ken,
I did not helicoil any studs... I did have 4 of them that did not meet the
proper 10-35 ft. lb torque so I took them out and replaced them with .003"
oversize studs.
Clarks sells oversize studs in .003" and .006" Try the .003 first if you
still cannot meet torque get the .006. They aren't cheap though......
about $12 a stud.
I would avoid helicoiling. Only helicoil if the stud holes have really bad
threads... if it's just one or two that need to be helicoiled then do it
yourself.... any more than that and a machine shop would be my suggestion.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Rickards" <pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Web Site Update
>
> If anyone is interested , I just updated my web site with some more engine
> pics. DJ, did you "Helicoil" any of your cylinder studs? If so, did you
do
> them yourself of have a machine shop do them? Just wondering how difficult
> they are to do!
>
> Ken
>
> GN1 2992
>
> Canada
>
> http://home.cogeco.ca/~pietbuilder/Engine.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wooden split axle |
| From: | "Ken Chambers" <kchambers(at)winternals.com> |
You're right again Gene.
I'm using a tailwheel, so I'll have to check the laminated spring for
sideloads/torquing in addition to shock. Maybe I'll just repeatedly kick
the heck out of it from the side.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Rickards" <pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Studs |
Thanks DJ. Once I get everything cleaned up, I'll give them a more detailed
inspection.
Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Studs
>
> Ken,
>
> I did not helicoil any studs... I did have 4 of them that did not meet the
> proper 10-35 ft. lb torque so I took them out and replaced them with .003"
> oversize studs.
>
> Clarks sells oversize studs in .003" and .006" Try the .003 first if you
> still cannot meet torque get the .006. They aren't cheap though......
> about $12 a stud.
>
> I would avoid helicoiling. Only helicoil if the stud holes have really
bad
> threads... if it's just one or two that need to be helicoiled then do it
> yourself.... any more than that and a machine shop would be my suggestion.
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Rickards" <pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Web Site Update
>
>
>
> >
> > If anyone is interested , I just updated my web site with some more
engine
> > pics. DJ, did you "Helicoil" any of your cylinder studs? If so, did
you
> do
> > them yourself of have a machine shop do them? Just wondering how
difficult
> > they are to do!
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > GN1 2992
> >
> > Canada
> >
> > http://home.cogeco.ca/~pietbuilder/Engine.htm
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | center section fuel tank security |
When securing the tank in the center section with straps over the top, I've become
concerned with the fact that nothing is holding the tank from falling out
the bottom except the wood structure. The plans call for tabs on the tank which
is frowned upon how because of fatigue cracks. Any thoughts out there on the
strength of that wood structure or should I figure out a strap system that
completely encloses the tank top and bottom?
Douwe
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "catdesign(at)intergate.com" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Instrument Repair |
I recently acquired and old nonworking Tycos altimeter. On the face, it says
Aviation Section Signal Corps US Army, Type C No. 9330. Does anyone know who I
can contact to see if it can be restored to working condition? It would look
mighty nice in my Piet
Thanks
Chris T.
Sacramento, Ca
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: center section fuel tank security |
Douwe,
Check the prints, there are wood strips fore and aft that the tank sits on.
I added felt strips also.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: center section fuel tank security
>
> When securing the tank in the center section with straps over the top,
I've become concerned with the fact that nothing is holding the tank from
falling out the bottom except the wood structure. The plans call for tabs
on the tank which is frowned upon how because of fatigue cracks. Any
thoughts out there on the strength of that wood structure or should I figure
out a strap system that completely encloses the tank top and bottom?
>
> Douwe
> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: center section fuel tank security |
Douwe
I made a full-width flanges front and rear (integral with the tank) to sit on
the spars. Gave some thought to the possibility of fatigue and decided that
it would be minimized by spreading the load across the full width of the tank.
It is certainly an area that will get ongoing attention. Also added full width
stiffeners 1/8th " X 1" with T-88 at the front and rear junction between the
plwood and the spar bottom.
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Repair |
Chris,
All I know is....don't plan on doing it yourself unless you have a good manual
on it, a 10X magnifying glass, and some micro-surgical tools. After I sucessfully
tinkered with some other instruments, I decided to pull apart my inoperative
sensitive altimeter (AN 5760-4B) to see if I could find what was rattling
around inside. The thing was assembled like a swiss watch inside.... umpteen
little tiny gears on very close tolerance spindles. I found the loose parts and
managed to get them replaced in their intended location. But I had not one
clue how all the gears were supposed to be syncronized. The whole thing was
an engineering marvel. If you find someplace to repair yours, please let me know.
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Repair |
AWWWWW you don't want THAT old thing . . . send it to me!
Gene
(send it to Keystone Instrument in PA for restoration if you must)
----- Original Message -----
From: <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Instrument Repair
>
> I recently acquired and old nonworking Tycos altimeter. On the face, it
says
> Aviation Section Signal Corps US Army, Type C No. 9330. Does anyone know
who I
> can contact to see if it can be restored to working condition? It would
look
> mighty nice in my Piet
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Chris T.
> Sacramento, Ca
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Repair |
NO NO NO NO NO, do not attempt to repair yourself, especially the old 4"
instruments!
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Instrument Repair
>
> Chris,
> All I know is....don't plan on doing it yourself unless you have a good
manual on it, a 10X magnifying glass, and some micro-surgical tools. After
I sucessfully tinkered with some other instruments, I decided to pull apart
my inoperative sensitive altimeter (AN 5760-4B) to see if I could find what
was rattling around inside. The thing was assembled like a swiss watch
inside.... umpteen little tiny gears on very close tolerance spindles. I
found the loose parts and managed to get them replaced in their intended
location. But I had not one clue how all the gears were supposed to be
syncronized. The whole thing was an engineering marvel. If you find
someplace to repair yours, please let me know.
> Terry L. Bowden
> ph 254-715-4773
> fax 254-853-3805
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Studs |
I've helicoiled studs (and plug sockets) in Corvair motors. They worked fine.
The only caution I would offer is to examine the length of the helicoil
inserts you're using vs the thread length of the original stud. If need be,
use two and stack them. I had to repair one motor because a previous owner
helicoiled a stud using only one and it pulled out. Not a fun day.
Jim Ash
>
>Thanks DJ. Once I get everything cleaned up, I'll give them a more detailed
>inspection.
>
>Ken
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Studs
>
>
> >
> > Ken,
> >
> > I did not helicoil any studs... I did have 4 of them that did not meet the
> > proper 10-35 ft. lb torque so I took them out and replaced them with .003"
> > oversize studs.
> >
> > Clarks sells oversize studs in .003" and .006" Try the .003 first if you
> > still cannot meet torque get the .006. They aren't cheap though......
> > about $12 a stud.
> >
> > I would avoid helicoiling. Only helicoil if the stud holes have really
>bad
> > threads... if it's just one or two that need to be helicoiled then do it
> > yourself.... any more than that and a machine shop would be my suggestion.
> >
> > DJ Vegh
> > N74DV
> > Mesa, AZ
> > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> >
> >
> > -
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ken Rickards" <pietbuilder(at)cogeco.ca>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Web Site Update
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > If anyone is interested , I just updated my web site with some more
>engine
> > > pics. DJ, did you "Helicoil" any of your cylinder studs? If so, did
>you
> > do
> > > them yourself of have a machine shop do them? Just wondering how
>difficult
> > > they are to do!
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> > > GN1 2992
> > >
> > > Canada
> > >
> > > http://home.cogeco.ca/~pietbuilder/Engine.htm
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Studs |
I just want to make it clear that I'm not saying heli-coils will not
work.... I was saying that a .003 or .006 oversize stud is MUCH easier in
most circumstances.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Studs
>
> I've helicoiled studs (and plug sockets) in Corvair motors. They worked
fine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | center section fuel tank security |
Douwe,
I had the same concerns and devised a strap system to support the tank and
keep the weight off the plywood. My tank holds 15 gallons, which is 90 lbs.
at 1 G. At the 4 G's or so the wing is good for, that would be 360 lbs,
which seems a lot to ask of a sheet of thin plywood.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Subject: Pietenpol-List: center section fuel tank security
When securing the tank in the center section with straps over the top, I've
become concerned with the fact that nothing is holding the tank from falling
out the bottom except the wood structure. The plans call for tabs on the
tank which is frowned upon how because of fatigue cracks. Any thoughts out
there on the strength of that wood structure or should I figure out a strap
system that completely encloses the tank top and bottom?
Douwe
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Keystone Instruments |
| From: | "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com> |
I recently acquired and old nonworking Tycos altimeter. On the face, it says Aviation
Section Signal Corps US Army, Type C No. 9330. Does anyone know who I
can contact to see if it can be restored to working condition? It would look
mighty nice in my Piet
Thanks
Chris T.
Sacramento, Ca
Chris (and all),
Others have mentioned Keystone and I'd just like to add that I've had extremely good dealings with Keystone Instruments in PA (http://www.keystoneinstruments.com/) and highly recommend them.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet - Weight Loss program |
What is the part # you decided on from McMaster Carr? Is it the white with a
yellow stripe?
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet - Weight Loss program
>
> YeeeHaawww. I logged .5 hrs today in LH seat of a 1937 Taylorcraft BC-65.
> BeeeeeUtifull weather down here in Texas. Flew formation with the
mosquitos
> just before sundown. Not a cloud in the sky...barely a puff of wind in
the cool
> evening. What a way to enjoy all of God's creation. Not the same as a
> Piet....but helps me keep the enthusiasm up.
>
> This past weekend, I set out on a mission to lighten up the Piet by
carving
> out some portions of the massive 1 inch plywood firewall installed by the
> original project builder. I think I am going to end up trimming around 4
or 5
> pounds. That is assuming I am able to get all the sawdust out of the
belly. I
> hope to start cutting instrument panel holes this coming week.
>
> Now, I just need to put myself on a weight savings program.
>
> I did make some progress today too....scrounged up all the landing gear
> bolts....finally getting the gear back together after massive re-work. We
now have
> a new spring gear similar to the Hatz design. My partner Lon did the
welding
> and has really mastered the art. We purchased springs from McMaster Carr
> after a lot of enthusiastic guidance on spring selection from several of
you on
> the list. Thanks guys. Lon has also been tinkering with the throttle
> installation and its going to be a modified Hatz design too. One of these
days if we
> keep on tinkering with all of this, we'll get there.
>
> Terry B
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Piet - Weight Loss program |
Barry,
Lon and I selected the following die spring part number based on some eyeball engineering.
The max compression travel for our gear (per Hatz CB-1 plans) is
approx. 2.5 inches. So we thought the spring rate 392 lb/in should be about right.
It seems very stiff, but the proof will be in the completed pudding. It
was bare steel, not painted.
p/n 9624K61
Spring-Tempered Steel Oval Wire Die Spring 2"
Hole, 1" Rod, 6" Length, 7/16" X 7/32" Wire
Load@
Fits Fits 15% Rate, Price
Hole Rod O'all Wire Defl., lbs./ Each
Size Size Lg. Size lbs. inch p/n 1-9 10-up
2" 1" 6" 7/16" x 7/32" 352.8 392 9624K61 27.30 22.19
Regards,
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: center section fuel tank security |
| From: | john e fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
> I had the same concerns and devised a strap system to support the
> tank and
> keep the weight off the plywood. My tank holds 15 gallons, which is
> 90 lbs.
> at 1 G
Douwe,
I had planned to do the same thing, using the description found in one of
the books by Tony Bingelis.
John Fay in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Studs |
I'm with you there, but the last one I did was on my daily driver and I
couldn't wait the time it usually takes me to get a parts turnaround from
Corvair Underground or Clark's, and my local contacts didn't have any.
On the side, the larger the thread contact area, the better the grip. A
hole drilled and tapped for a helicoil has a larger aluminum surface to
grip the helicoil than the original. Personally, it doesn't outweigh the
down sides, but it does help.
Jim Ash
>
>I just want to make it clear that I'm not saying heli-coils will not
>work.... I was saying that a .003 or .006 oversize stud is MUCH easier in
>most circumstances.
>
>
>DJ Vegh
>N74DV
>Mesa, AZ
>www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
>-
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Studs
>
>
> >
> > I've helicoiled studs (and plug sockets) in Corvair motors. They worked
>fine.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatthe1(at)rochester.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Sale deal fell through |
Got a call from the guy that was going to buy my project. His freezer and
dryer died so SWMBO froze the airplane parts assets. It is back on
barnstormers. The wood is now sitting in my hangar so I have the space
back in the garage but Jim and Dondi are going to want more than a couple
of bucks for the Taylorcraft fabric job that I am going to do this winter.
PIETENPOL SPRUCE KIT AND PLANS FOR SALE CHEAP Was sold until the buyer
had some things break at home. Back on the market and cheap to a good home.
Wood kit for Long Fuselage Piet. Purchased in March 1999 from Western
Aircraft Supply. I have built 6 ribs since then. All other wood is still in
the shipping tubes. Includes the already built ribs and jig. Full plans
purchased from the Pietenpol family. Inc 3 piece wing and Corvair sheets.
Reprint of BPA newsletters from July 83 - 2nd Quarter 99. Wood is located
at Perry-Warsaw (01G) in NY. I will not ship it and will not sell the plans
seperately unless the wood is already gone. I will deliver within about 100
miles of Geneseo (US only). If you wish to look into arranging shipping the
wood and packing weigh about 150 pounds. One tube is just over 14' long and
the other about 8'. $1200 for all, $1125 if you don't need the plans and
newsletters. If you think it is too much let me know what you think it is
worth. Dave N36078 '41 BC-12-65
585-243-0084
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
Fellow Pieters-
I've got to retire in three years and am in the throes of deciding just where a
good place to live might be. It occurred to me that the place to find like-minded
people would be on this list so.........
Does anybody know of an airport community with lots available? An airport with
an existing house/hangar available? How about just a really nice airport that
would be enough of a magnet that I wouldn't mind having a hangar there and living
nearby?
We spent several days in the central and northern portions of FL but didn't find
as much to get excited about as we thought we would. Maybe we didn't look in
the right places or ask the right people.
Of course grass is preferable and a lot of grass is even better. A decent climate
is a big plus (more flying days) near a city but not too near, and no high
elevations that my poor old asthmatic Piet would find hard to tolerate.
Candidates????
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | cork fuel indicator |
Any thoughts or experiences regarding the best float material for auto gas? If
a cork is used does it have to be sealed with something fuel proof?
Douwe
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: retirement site |
There are several excellent airport communities (with hangers/homes
available) in the Dallas area.....
Come on out some weekend (we have a spare bedroom) and we can do the
tour.......
Jim in Plano
----- Original Message -----
From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: retirement site
>
> Fellow Pieters-
>
> I've got to retire in three years and am in the throes of deciding just
where a good place to live might be. It occurred to me that the place to
find like-minded people would be on this list so.........
>
>
> Does anybody know of an airport community with lots available? An airport
with an existing house/hangar available? How about just a really nice
airport that would be enough of a magnet that I wouldn't mind having a
hangar there and living nearby?
>
> We spent several days in the central and northern portions of FL but
didn't find as much to get excited about as we thought we would. Maybe we
didn't look in the right places or ask the right people.
>
> Of course grass is preferable and a lot of grass is even better. A decent
climate is a big plus (more flying days) near a city but not too near, and
no high elevations that my poor old asthmatic Piet would find hard to
tolerate.
>
> Candidates????
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: retirement site |
Other than the weather, I can't imagine a better place to retire with a
Piet than Brodhead. It looked like there were houses going up just
south of the airfield and the people at the airport are just way cooler
than any I've ever met.. There is more interesting hardware in the
hangers than I have seen in one place, and the people all work on their
stuff right there together..
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> lnawms(at)msn.com Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:34:54 PM >>>
Fellow Pieters-
I've got to retire in three years and am in the throes of deciding just
where a good place to live might be. It occurred to me that the place to
find like-minded people would be on this list so.........
Does anybody know of an airport community with lots available? An
airport with an existing house/hangar available? How about just a really
nice airport that would be enough of a magnet that I wouldn't mind
having a hangar there and living nearby?
We spent several days in the central and northern portions of FL but
didn't find as much to get excited about as we thought we would. Maybe
we didn't look in the right places or ask the right people.
Of course grass is preferable and a lot of grass is even better. A
decent climate is a big plus (more flying days) near a city but not too
near, and no high elevations that my poor old asthmatic Piet would find
hard to tolerate.
Candidates????
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: retirement site |
I've got friends that either live in or own property at several around
central Florida. I lived and flew there for 12 years before moving out a
year and a half ago.
This somewhat becomes a discussion of cultures. You need to connect to the
local aviation crowd and not to the real estate sales people.
I've got friends that live in Leeward Air Ranch in Ocala. They tried to get
me to buy up there, but it was a bit too far to work in the metro Orlando
area for me or I'd have thought seriously about it. Leeward has been
established for a long while and has been built up on the west side. I've
heard they've got more building lots approved on the east side, but I don't
know if it's true and what that's doing to the culture of the place, if
anything. They've got 6000 feet of grass and an aerobatic box. I've met
several of the neighbors and people seem friendly. I fly in sometimes for a
visit and most everybody you taxi past waves.
I'd also considered Love's Landing. I don't know if Sam has any lots left
but I know of some privately-owned lots that could be had there for the
right price. I don't know about the neighbors or the culture, but last I
saw a couple years ago there were plenty enough homes built to look like a
community. He's got two intersecting grass runways. They've got a unique
arrangement because they bought an airspace easement for the approaches
from the neighbors back when it was all orange groves. Rumor has it this
easement has been legally tested and survived, which is nice to know as the
local oranges freeze out and quickly turn into homes. The standard story of
an airport closing because of complaints from the neighbors with their new
5000sq-ft homes right under the approach probably won't happen here.
Cannon Creek is a bit further north and has been around for a good long
time. I've met one guy from there who was a nice fellow, but I can't speak
for the community and I've never flow in.
Spruce Creek is the 'name brand' airpark the general populace knows about.
It's a gated community with asphalt runways. If you land for a visit, your
first host is airport security asking you to state your business.
Personally, it's a see-and-avoid place for me. Draw your own conclusions.
Two things you should consider. The first is to subscribe to a little
publication called 'Living with Your Airplane', by Dave Sclair. He's got a
directory of statistics on all kinds of airport communities and can provide
you a wealth of information to aid in your search. I believe he's also got
a web presence.
The second thing is to contact each of those you're considering and ask for
a copy of the CC&R's (Conditions, Covenants and Restrictions). The is
standard stuff for any homeowner's association, but has some special twists
for airparks. They will all give them to you, but you probably have to
ask.They have varying levels of 'control' over what you build and how you
build it, if you're planning on building instead of buying existing. Some
of the culture is mandated by the size and type of home you build.You might
be able to read between the lines and draw some conclusions from it. Also
see if you can find out what percentage of residents in a given community
do and do not fly. Oddly enough, there are those who choose to live in an
airpark for the prestige of it, then complain about the noise.
I've attended a couple sessions at Sun 'n Fun on airport communities and I
suggest you do the same. I found it informative.
On the side of not living at the airport, there are places (Eustis comes to
mind) where you could keep your plane and bicycle to it from your nearby home.
Jim Ash
>
>Fellow Pieters-
>
>I've got to retire in three years and am in the throes of deciding just
>where a good place to live might be. It occurred to me that the place to
>find like-minded people would be on this list so.........
>
>
>Does anybody know of an airport community with lots available? An airport
>with an existing house/hangar available? How about just a really nice
>airport that would be enough of a magnet that I wouldn't mind having a
>hangar there and living nearby?
>
>We spent several days in the central and northern portions of FL but
>didn't find as much to get excited about as we thought we would. Maybe we
>didn't look in the right places or ask the right people.
>
>Of course grass is preferable and a lot of grass is even better. A decent
>climate is a big plus (more flying days) near a city but not too near, and
>no high elevations that my poor old asthmatic Piet would find hard to tolerate.
>
>Candidates????
>
>Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spar question |
Jack,
I would recommend the solid 3/4 inch spar.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Textor" <jack(at)personnelincorporated.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar question
>
> Slowly but surely getting started. I'm contemplating two spar designs.
> I've read the books, articles and archives, but would appreciate any group
> comments. Which design would be stronger? 1st - solid spruce, or, 2nd -
> built up I beam, utilizing spruce edged with 1 x spruce strips, both
> sides, top and bottom, glued and not nailed.
> Thanks!
> Jack Textor
> DSM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Pacetti <gpacetti(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: retirement site |
Did you look at the Little River Airport community just west of Lake City,
Fl. Have several friends there, real nice place with two grass runways.
Dean
LAWRENCE WILLIAMS wrote:
Fellow Pieters-
I've got to retire in three years and am in the throes of deciding just where a
good place to live might be. It occurred to me that the place to find like-minded
people would be on this list so.........
Does anybody know of an airport community with lots available? An airport with
an existing house/hangar available? How about just a really nice airport that
would be enough of a magnet that I wouldn't mind having a hangar there and living
nearby?
We spent several days in the central and northern portions of FL but didn't find
as much to get excited about as we thought we would. Maybe we didn't look in
the right places or ask the right people.
Of course grass is preferable and a lot of grass is even better. A decent climate
is a big plus (more flying days) near a city but not too near, and no high
elevations that my poor old asthmatic Piet would find hard to tolerate.
Candidates????
Larry
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John and Susan" <sjficklen(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: retirement site |
Hi Larry , This area is terrific, ask your dad about it, he has been here--
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: retirement site
>
> Fellow Pieters-
>
> I've got to retire in three years and am in the throes of deciding just
where a good place to live might be. It occurred to me that the place to
find like-minded people would be on this list so.........
>
>
> Does anybody know of an airport community with lots available? An airport
with an existing house/hangar available? How about just a really nice
airport that would be enough of a magnet that I wouldn't mind having a
hangar there and living nearby?
>
> We spent several days in the central and northern portions of FL but
didn't find as much to get excited about as we thought we would. Maybe we
didn't look in the right places or ask the right people.
>
> Of course grass is preferable and a lot of grass is even better. A decent
climate is a big plus (more flying days) near a city but not too near, and
no high elevations that my poor old asthmatic Piet would find hard to
tolerate.
>
> Candidates????
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: retirement site |
Larry,
I have 41CC hangared at Bluebird Hill 5F5, a turf strip just south of
Shreveport. It is an uncrowded, residental airport with some room for expansion
owned
by two retired colonels from Barksdale AFB. Prices, I think, are well below
some I've heard.
May I suggest you call Mr. Hugh Hunton 318 925 2302 for particuliars
Corky in beautiful, low taxed, all year flying, land of good food, 5 river
boat casinos and 1 race track, Loooooooooooooooozianna. And 1 Piet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: retirement site |
Larry,
3 years ago I visited the airfield where Mr Leonard Milholland lives.
Is in Brookshire, TX near Houston on the Freeway to Sn Antonio. When
I visited him I saw several lots empty... yo might ask him, probably
there is some land available... The weather is not so cold, the
landscape a little flat for what I am used to, but you could like it...
His web page is http://www.betterhalfvw.com
An airview of the airfield is in:
http://www.betterhalfvw.com/sportfly.jpg
His home/hangar is in the first one on the lower left corner, with a
tree in front (where I parked my VW bus).
In a few years I will do the same here... I already have a Motorhome
with full hook ups in the back of my hangar, I spend there as much
weekends as I am alowded by my wife and kids :-) Two more to go to
college and Im FREEEEE!!!
Saludos
Gary Gower
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico
Future Chapala Lake resident...
--- Jim Markle wrote:
>
>
> There are several excellent airport communities (with hangers/homes
> available) in the Dallas area.....
>
> Come on out some weekend (we have a spare bedroom) and we can do the
> tour.......
>
> Jim in Plano
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
> To: "Pietenpol-List Digest Server"
>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: retirement site
>
>
>
> >
> > Fellow Pieters-
> >
> > I've got to retire in three years and am in the throes of deciding
> just
> where a good place to live might be. It occurred to me that the place
> to
> find like-minded people would be on this list so.........
> >
> >
> > Does anybody know of an airport community with lots available? An
> airport
> with an existing house/hangar available? How about just a really nice
> airport that would be enough of a magnet that I wouldn't mind having
> a
> hangar there and living nearby?
> >
> > We spent several days in the central and northern portions of FL
> but
> didn't find as much to get excited about as we thought we would.
> Maybe we
> didn't look in the right places or ask the right people.
> >
> > Of course grass is preferable and a lot of grass is even better. A
> decent
> climate is a big plus (more flying days) near a city but not too
> near, and
> no high elevations that my poor old asthmatic Piet would find hard to
> tolerate.
> >
> > Candidates????
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: retirement site |
Got news for you. You're dreaming.You are never free with a wife and kids.
Corky in La with a wife and 8 kids
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Spar Question - Solid Spruce vs Built Up |
Jack Textor and group,
I've always wondered the same question, whether to use a solid spar or build
up an I-beam with plywood and solid strips. (My selection for the web
material is plywood here, if I had that much solid lumber, I would just as
well use a solid spar.) As I see it (insert disclaimer here), there are
some advantages for each...
Solid Spar
The advantages of this are that it's easy to manufacturer; just rip, plane,
and cut to length a long piece of lumber and that's it. Attaching ribs and
fittings require no spacers (an I beam would require a filler between the
caps due to the thinner web section). Although, obtaining a spar grade
stick of lumber, particularly Sitka Spruce, comes with a price.
Built Up Spar
The advantages of this are that it is possibly lighter than a comparatively
equal solid spar. Additionally, it may be easier to obtain the materials
locally as plywood is a ubiquitous product and the solid cap strips could be
built up from several shorter pieces Sure, you could scarf a solid spar
together but to me personally, I just wouldn't feel comfortable knowing
there was a big-ol' glue joint holding the spar together. Somehow it seems
more palatable knowing that there are several smaller glue joints holding
the spar together as in the case with the built up spar. One other
advantage is that the built up spar could come from "byproduct" material...
you've already got the plywood for the firewall, bulkheads, seats, whatever
and if planned correctly, the spar webbing could use up the leftover; the
same applies to the caps (this is a general comment, in the Piet, I believe
that the material list is defined well enough that very little is left
over).
Design?
What the heck, I've got the engineering books here on the shelf... I'm dying
to know how much built up spar would equal a solid spar.
One quick wood lesson: lumber is very strong in compression and tension in
the direction of its grain (grain in this case means cellular orientation,
not growth rings) and weak perpendicular to it. It would be easier to grab
a 2x4x8' stud and pull it apart into two 2x2's than it would be to pull it
apart into two 4' pieces (not actually, considering surface area but you get
my point). Plywood is a trade off. It's laminations oriented 90 degrees to
each other make a strip of it almost as strong parallel to the strip as
perpendicular. A spar requires most of it's strength parallel to the
length, good for solid spar, bad for plywood spar.
That's where the capstrips come in. The cantilever forces on a spar cause
the top of the spar to go into compression and the bottom of the spar to go
into tension, in the center of the spar, there is neither (yea yea, ideally
only here, sure there is shear at places like just adjacent to the strut,
but overlook this just this one time). If you were to remove all of the
middle, you would be left with two capstrips, which really do all the work
anyway. In a built up spar, the plywood web in the middle pretty much just
holds the two capstrips in place (again, it also works against the force of
twisting or racking in conjunction with the ribs, but overlook this as
well).
The next question is... is there a way to make a 3/4" wide built up spar
(because I don't want to redesign all the ribs) equal to a solid 3/4" wide
spar? Answer: no. Like I said before, a 3/4" built up spar would be like a
3/4" solid with the middle removed, additionally, the plywood is weaker.
The way you want to look at it is... how can I use less solid lumber and
retain the same strength (for weight reasons or to save on material costs)?
Answer: make it wider at the top, remove the middle (look at an I beam).
For this conversation, lets only look at the solid lumber. A solid spar
that is 3/4" wide by 5" tall has a section modulus of 3.125 in
3. A built
up spar using four 3/4"x3/4" strips, two at the top, two at the bottom,
would have a section modulus (solid lumber only, no plywood) would have a
s.m. of 4.1in
3. (Yea, I did all the calculations but won't bore you with
them here) By the way, section modulus is just a measure of the cross
sectional area's ability to resist a moment. Multiply that by the extreme
fiber stress and the result is the ultimate moment that can be applied.
Ok, Ok, based on the solid lumber alone in this example the built up spar is
1/3 stronger using 3/5 the solid wood.
So where does this leave you? I hope I haven't preached to you all. It was
really only so that I could maybe help out a little. But the answer is
really why are you considering the built up spar for the Piet?
Comparatively speaking, it doesn't amount to much cost or cost savings
considering the total project, you've got plenty of other things to build,
and the solid spar is already plenty strong enough as proven by years of
experience.
Humbly,
Robert Haines
Du Quoin, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rambog(at)erols.com" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | cork fuel indicator |
Yes, buy real, old fashioned shellac. That is the only thing I know of
that will hold up in all types of fuel and is what has always been
traditionally used on fuel floats.
Gene
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Douwe Blumberg douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:25:47 -0400
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cork fuel indicator
Any thoughts or experiences regarding the best float material for auto gas?
If a cork is used does it have to be sealed with something fuel proof?
Douwe
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: cork fuel indicator |
Sirs;,
If I might suggest.
Years ago I bought some Hirsch gas tank sealer too stop the leaks in my 27
Dodge tank. I had a bit left so I found a place on the shelve and forgot about.
While building the welding rod-cork fuel guage for 41CC I tried shellac but
could never get it dried. I looked around and saw this Hirsch can on the shelve.
In dipped the cork then let dry. No gas has ever come close to that cork, I
gar ron tee. You might check with the old car clubs or hobbiest in your area as
most all have used Hirsch gas tank sealer and someone might have some left on
a shelve near you. You can find their ad in Hemmings but you don't need a qt
to seal a cork.
Cork in La all sealed up with Hirsch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Marathon or Shell ? |
Guys--- I'm trying to find premium unleaded auto fuel without alcohol and
so far both Marathon and Shell say they used to carry no alcohol, but the
"winter blend" in our city has been changed to include some trace amounts
of alcohol. Shoot. Then one Marathon owner said they have no
alcohol. I dunno. Aren't those fuel testers around you can buy with the
ball floats in them so that they can detect wether there is alcohol or not
in the fuel ? I know I've seen them before. Thank you !
Mike C. in balmy Cleveland.............39 F and cloudy ! How's it by
you Walt E. in NJ ??? I don't want to hear how much suntan lotion
those poor guys like Corky in La and nice guy Jim Sury are soaking up
flying those open cockpit planes still into late October. Poor Gene R. is
freezing his nuggies off too I'll bet:)))
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cork fuel indicator |
Wow, excellent idea. Or maybe some ProSeal since you'll probably be using
some of that fun stuff anyway? I gave several coats of expoxy to the one I
built (which I'll not be using now....).
By the way, I've decided to use a capacitance meter system and I now have
one of those Stearman type guages from AS&S still in the bag. Also have
several glass tubes from a manufacturer of high temp/pressure boiler
products.
Sure would be better for them to be used rather than sitting on my
shelf.....
If anyone wants either the Stearman guage (at a bargain basement price, of
course) or any of the tubing (for shipping costs only), let me know.
The boiler tubing is like what I've documented in my build log on
mykitplane.com if you're interested.
Jim in Plano
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cork fuel indicator
>
> Sirs;,
>
> If I might suggest.
> Years ago I bought some Hirsch gas tank sealer too stop the leaks in my 27
> Dodge tank. I had a bit left so I found a place on the shelve and forgot
about.
> While building the welding rod-cork fuel guage for 41CC I tried shellac
but
> could never get it dried. I looked around and saw this Hirsch can on the
shelve.
> In dipped the cork then let dry. No gas has ever come close to that cork,
I
> gar ron tee. You might check with the old car clubs or hobbiest in your
area as
> most all have used Hirsch gas tank sealer and someone might have some left
on
> a shelve near you. You can find their ad in Hemmings but you don't need a
qt
> to seal a cork.
>
> Cork in La all sealed up with Hirsch
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Marathon or Shell ? |
| From: | Mike <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
Mike,
My cranky old IA (RIP, John), taught me a test for alcohol in fuel.
Take a fuel sample in a clear tube and add a couple of drops of water. If
the water falls to the bottom of the tube and stays there, there isn't
enough alcohol to matter. If the water dissolves, then there is a
significant amount of alcohol dissolved in the fuel.
Mike Hardaway
on 10/23/03 13:11, Michael D Cuy at Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov wrote:
>
>
> Guys--- I'm trying to find premium unleaded auto fuel without alcohol and
> so far both Marathon and Shell say they used to carry no alcohol, but the
> "winter blend" in our city has been changed to include some trace amounts
> of alcohol. Shoot. Then one Marathon owner said they have no
> alcohol. I dunno. Aren't those fuel testers around you can buy with the
> ball floats in them so that they can detect wether there is alcohol or not
> in the fuel ? I know I've seen them before. Thank you !
>
> Mike C. in balmy Cleveland.............39 F and cloudy ! How's it by
> you Walt E. in NJ ??? I don't want to hear how much suntan lotion
> those poor guys like Corky in La and nice guy Jim Sury are soaking up
> flying those open cockpit planes still into late October. Poor Gene R. is
> freezing his nuggies off too I'll bet:)))
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Marathon or Shell ? |
We got 3" of snow since last night, and it's still snowing.
... but I did 12 years in Florida and it still beats 90 degrees in the
shade any day.
Jim Ash
northern NH.
>
>
>Guys--- I'm trying to find premium unleaded auto fuel without alcohol and
>so far both Marathon and Shell say they used to carry no alcohol, but the
>"winter blend" in our city has been changed to include some trace amounts
>of alcohol. Shoot. Then one Marathon owner said they have no
>alcohol. I dunno. Aren't those fuel testers around you can buy with the
>ball floats in them so that they can detect wether there is alcohol or not
>in the fuel ? I know I've seen them before. Thank you !
>
>Mike C. in balmy Cleveland.............39 F and cloudy ! How's it by
>you Walt E. in NJ ??? I don't want to hear how much suntan lotion
>those poor guys like Corky in La and nice guy Jim Sury are soaking up
>flying those open cockpit planes still into late October. Poor Gene R. is
>freezing his nuggies off too I'll bet:)))
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | landing gear springs/was weight loss program |
Barry asked:
>What is the part # you decided on from McMaster Carr? Is it the white
>with a yellow stripe?
And Terry replied:
>the following die spring part number based on some eyeball engineering.
>The max compression travel for our gear (per Hatz CB-1 plans) is
>approx. 2.5 inches. So we thought the spring rate 392 lb/in should be
>about right.
>It seems very stiff, but the proof will be in the completed pudding. It
>was bare steel, not painted.
Take a look at the second (or the last) picture at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/cowling/cowling.html which is my little "Flying
Squirrel" just sitting on its gear. The landing gear shock strut springs in
the picture are at least 3/4 compressed and this is just the fuselage and
engine, sans wings, tail group, instruments, and a whole bunch of other
stuff. The Squirrel grosses 800 lbs. at design. Anyway, the white springs
with blue stripe supposedly provide 264 lb./in. and 460 lbs. at full
deflection (McMaster-Carr #9297K84) and that ain't gonna be enough! So I
now have heavier ones, I think they are black with a bronze stripe (McM-C
#9588K3). They feel really stiff, but like Terry says, the proff will be in
the pudding and "too stiff" might not be stiff enough.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account has exceeded
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Marathon or Shell ? |
Mike,
Chilly and breezy here in north NJ. Predicting in the 20's tonite.
I decided long ago when I had some auto fuel in the Piet to test run it and
the rubber gasket on the approved fuel cap started to distort and get
"gooshey". Auto fuel around here is upwards of $2.00 per gal ( even saw
premium east of the hudson near Sleepy Hollow at $2.22 per gal.)
With AV gas at $2.60 gal and 4 gal/hr burn,,,,,figured that with an extra
$4.00 per hour to fly my great Piet over the countryside with no worries,
was well worth it. Right now I'm sticking with the AVgas.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Marathon or Shell ?
>
> Guys--- I'm trying to find premium unleaded auto fuel without alcohol and
> so far both Marathon and Shell say they used to carry no alcohol, but the
> "winter blend" in our city has been changed to include some trace amounts
> of alcohol. Shoot. Then one Marathon owner said they have no
> alcohol. I dunno. Aren't those fuel testers around you can buy with
the
> ball floats in them so that they can detect wether there is alcohol or not
> in the fuel ? I know I've seen them before. Thank you !
>
> Mike C. in balmy Cleveland.............39 F and cloudy ! How's it by
> you Walt E. in NJ ??? I don't want to hear how much suntan lotion
> those poor guys like Corky in La and nice guy Jim Sury are soaking up
> flying those open cockpit planes still into late October. Poor Gene R. is
> freezing his nuggies off too I'll bet:)))
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesJboyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Marathon or Shell ? |
Chris you could even fly MIkes Piet over to Santa Rosa and we could both oh
and ah and polish it and who knows what else!
Cheers, Jim
Mike if you aren't sure about Chris you know I'd really keep it warm and
comfy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Brakes - Lawrence Williams |
| From: | "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten(at)Governair.com> |
Lawrence,
I saw photos of your plane at Osh in the "Mykitplane" photo section, Chris Gomez
posted them.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=Air_Venture_2003_trip_104.jpg&PhotoID=1947
Can you describe your brake setup? It looks like a strap? Cable activated?
Thanks!
Kent
Oklahoma City
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov> |
I have to chime in on this one, we searched for the "just right" airpark for
about 4 years. It had to be grass and on the tail dragger/Bonanza scale it
had to be way closer to the tail dragger end.
We found out about Hales Landing in northwest West Virginia almost by
accident, a friend, flying to the T-Craft flyin in Alliance OH, heard nature
call as he was flying over this strip. He came back and told us about it. We
have made two trips there and sent in our deposit for lot #28 today. There
is one lot left.
Skip in Atlanta, until June 1 2004.
_
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: retirement site |
Try this in Ga
http://www.aviationhomes.com/lyonslanding.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: retirement site
>
> I have to chime in on this one, we searched for the "just right" airpark
for
> about 4 years. It had to be grass and on the tail dragger/Bonanza scale it
> had to be way closer to the tail dragger end.
> We found out about Hales Landing in northwest West Virginia almost by
> accident, a friend, flying to the T-Craft flyin in Alliance OH, heard
nature
> call as he was flying over this strip. He came back and told us about it.
We
> have made two trips there and sent in our deposit for lot #28 today. There
> is one lot left.
> Skip in Atlanta, until June 1 2004.
>
> _
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | alcohol in fuel/was Marathon or Shell ? |
Mike Cuy (and anybody else curious), there was an item on identifying
alcohol in fuel in the August "Experimenter". Sez: "...If you start with
one part water and 10 parts of a fuel that contains 10 percent alcohol, the
water (actually water/alcohol mixture) will appear to double, leaving nine
parts gasoline." What you do is start with a clear sampling cup or tube,
add a known small quantity of water and note the level, then add a fuel
sample appropriately larger than the water quantity and shake to mix. If
the water level appears to increase, you'd better be suspicious that you've
got alky.
he article goes on to suggest that you not start with the fuel in the
sampling cup first, because as you add the water it may pick up alcohol on
the way to the bottom and you won't get an accurate indication of the true
starting quantity.
Now this whole thing will look funny to the motorists standing in line
behind you at the pump, but if you wear a uniform they may think you're with
the EPA or something.
And for you guys just hanging over the fence gawking, the article also
suggests that an empty vodka 'nip bottle' makes an excellent sampling
container, once all the alcohol is gone and the bottle cleaned out very well
;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto direction |
Pieteres, I know that cont. A engines drive the magneto off the crankshaft
gear and cont 85-12s drive off the camshaft gear in the other direction. My
question is: can a magneto be changed to fit what I need?
Ken Conrad In Long Grove Iowa with my beans in the bin and the best
corn I've ever had.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: retirement site |
From: Dave Rowe
For my money, Vancouver Island, British Columbia is the retirement
site. The weather is mild pretty much year round, with a couple of cool
months, featuring a wee bit of rain, and maybe one or two days of snow,
just enough for me to stoke up the fireplace in my workshop, and do some
serious building. Lots of great places to fly, you can make a weekend
adventure just touring the island, not to mention the dozens of airports
on the mainland of BC, Washington and Oregon. Although the housing
prices are steep in the Victoria area, there are some good deals up
island, the Campbell River area being my favorite. Come check us out, I
work at 443 Maritime Helicopter Squadron, based out of Pat Bay (Victoria
International). The Spitfire Grill, right on the airport has great food
and atmosphere, as well the folks at the Victoria Flying Club are super
friendly.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "catdesign(at)intergate.com" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Altimeter update |
Well thanks to this list I was able to get in contact with Keystone
Instruments (ask for Ken 570 748 7083). They said they could restore my old
altimeter to working condition. I'm still trying to get in touch with some
thers to see what they will charge. I was not aware of all the things
Keystone can do to newer instruments to make them look old. And the prices did
not seem too bad. It was worth talking to them just for the options it opens
up.
Thanks for all the help
Chris T.
Sacramento, Ca
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Ken Chambers ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Ken Chambers
Subject: Pietenpol Front Shoulder Belt Harness
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/kchambers@winternals.com.10.25.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto direction |
From what I remember of what my Mentor told me about Eismann's, assuming
there is no impulse, remove the nut and slide off the cam lobe and reverse
it.
If an impulse, the spring pin has to be moved to the other side,flip the
spring, and get a new impulse coupling.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: <Wizzard187(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Magneto direction
>
> Pieteres, I know that cont. A engines drive the magneto off the
crankshaft
> gear and cont 85-12s drive off the camshaft gear in the other direction.
My
> question is: can a magneto be changed to fit what I need?
> Ken Conrad In Long Grove Iowa with my beans in the bin and the best
> corn I've ever had.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <jack(at)personnelincorporated.com> |
| Subject: | Rib Full Size Pattern ???? |
While making my rib jig, I compaired the full size patteren with the
dimentions given in the plan. I lofted the measurements to the pattern.
They are off by 3/16th of an inch in places. It also seem like I have
too much room above the front spar and top capstrip. Which should I
beleive? When tanfering the dimentions to the jig, I have made sure the
spars are 27 3/4" apart and parallel.
Help! and Thanks!
Jack Textor
Des Moines
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatthe1(at)rochester.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Full Size Pattern ???? |
Jack,
Lofting is a much better idea. The template is paper and will expand and
contrct a lot with humidity. When I did mine the spar spacing on the
template was off by 1/8".
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
At 04:27 PM 10/25/2003, Jack Textor wrote:
>While making my rib jig, I compaired the full size patteren with the
>dimentions given in the plan. I lofted the measurements to the pattern.
>They are off by 3/16th of an inch in places. It also seem like I have
>too much room above the front spar and top capstrip. Which should I
>beleive? When tanfering the dimentions to the jig, I have made sure the
>spars are 27 3/4" apart and parallel.
>Help! and Thanks!
>Jack Textor
>Des Moines
>
>--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Full Size Pattern ???? |
>
>
>Jack,
>Lofting is a much better idea. The template is paper and will expand and
>contrct a lot with humidity. When I did mine the spar spacing on the
>template was off by 1/8".
>Dave
>N36078 '41 BC-12-65
>
>At 04:27 PM 10/25/2003, Jack Textor wrote:
>
>>While making my rib jig, I compaired the full size patteren with the
>>dimentions given in the plan. I lofted the measurements to the pattern.
>>They are off by 3/16th of an inch in places. It also seem like I have
>>too much room above the front spar and top capstrip. Which should I
>>beleive? When tanfering the dimentions to the jig, I have made sure the
>>spars are 27 3/4" apart and parallel.
>>Help! and Thanks!
>>Jack Textor
>>Des Moines
Jack,
Definitely go with lofting. Last winter, the pattern I bought from the
Pietenpols was 1" too long overall, with other measurements all screwy as
well. Who knows how far off now - I rolled it up & put it away. Paper is
definitely not stable.
Kip Gardner
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | First Flight w/pax |
It's official: NX770CG has lofted 'er first passenger into the sky !!
Wednesday evening came with near perfect flying conditions. An old buddy of
mine and his wife were on vacation to Branson Mi, and planned on visiting with
me and my plane. He managed to climb in and out a couple of times without
much problem, and we went over the harness, emergency procedures, and exactly
what the flight will entail. When he asked "Is it safe?" I said "It's
completely safe...as long as we don't crash !!"
A thorough pre-flight showed no reason to cancel the flight, and after he
strapped in, I propped the ol' Continental and lit 'er up with the first
blade. Back taxi 34, run up, taxi into position. Right now, my intercom is an
elevated voice level. I hollered "ARE YOU READY ?" He said "LETS GO !!", and
gave me thumbs up. Check clear runway, hold the brakes, full power, oil pres
/ temp check, let 'er go. Forward stick got the tail up in short order, but
the extra weight (highest gross weight ever), and kinda rough grass field made
the take off roll reminiscent of flying behind the ol' Model A engine. The
rumble of the earth went away, and we were airborne, keep 'er in ground effect
for a short while to build some speed, and we climbed out at a shallow 48 to
50 mph indicated, maybe 200 fpm, albeit a positive rate of climb. We did four
fly-bys with his wife taking pictures, and 'YEEE HAAAAWWWSSS" from us !! We
then departed the pattern to the South, for a scheduled two T.P. drop at
another friends house. Although we missed the target, it's a lot more fun when
I
have a bombadeer on board !! Returned to the field, and did a greaser landing
!! What a blast !! Everyone had a great time, even his wife !! They took me
out for a big Italian dinner, at Savoots 'Stick & Rudder' club for the post
flight brief. Full belly after a great flight...it just doesn't get any better
than this !!
I took my second passenger up on Thursday evening, when flying conditions
were even better than Wednesday - 80, calm winds, and about a million miles
visibility. Judging by all his hootin' and hollerin', I think he also had a
great time. We flew over his house, and his kids were running around waving
their arms, and this T.P. drop missed the target by just 100 feet, or so, into
the neighbors yard !! His wife made one of the kids go pick up the T.P. !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
into a whole new realm of Pietenpol fun !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
Can anybody think of a reason why lock washers and nuts wont be as good as
PAL Nuts and nuts?
The case-to-case bolts on my A-65 are supposed to be locked with PAL nuts.
Looks like lock washers would work to me. Or hi temp lock tite??
Thanks,
Bert (who has a brand new top end, inspected bottom end :>o, and hopes to
crank her up next weekend)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doyle K. Combs" <dcombs(at)ltex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight w/pax |
Pardon the ignorance, but what is T.P.?
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Flight w/pax
>
> It's official: NX770CG has lofted 'er first passenger into the sky !!
> Wednesday evening came with near perfect flying conditions. An old buddy
of
> mine and his wife were on vacation to Branson Mi, and planned on visiting
with
> me and my plane. He managed to climb in and out a couple of times without
> much problem, and we went over the harness, emergency procedures, and
exactly
> what the flight will entail. When he asked "Is it safe?" I said "It's
> completely safe...as long as we don't crash !!"
> A thorough pre-flight showed no reason to cancel the flight, and after
he
> strapped in, I propped the ol' Continental and lit 'er up with the first
> blade. Back taxi 34, run up, taxi into position. Right now, my intercom
is an
> elevated voice level. I hollered "ARE YOU READY ?" He said "LETS GO
!!", and
> gave me thumbs up. Check clear runway, hold the brakes, full power, oil
pres
> / temp check, let 'er go. Forward stick got the tail up in short order,
but
> the extra weight (highest gross weight ever), and kinda rough grass field
made
> the take off roll reminiscent of flying behind the ol' Model A engine.
The
> rumble of the earth went away, and we were airborne, keep 'er in ground
effect
> for a short while to build some speed, and we climbed out at a shallow 48
to
> 50 mph indicated, maybe 200 fpm, albeit a positive rate of climb. We did
four
> fly-bys with his wife taking pictures, and 'YEEE HAAAAWWWSSS" from us !!
We
> then departed the pattern to the South, for a scheduled two T.P. drop at
> another friends house. Although we missed the target, it's a lot more fun
when I
> have a bombadeer on board !! Returned to the field, and did a greaser
landing
> !! What a blast !! Everyone had a great time, even his wife !! They
took me
> out for a big Italian dinner, at Savoots 'Stick & Rudder' club for the
post
> flight brief. Full belly after a great flight...it just doesn't get any
better
> than this !!
> I took my second passenger up on Thursday evening, when flying
conditions
> were even better than Wednesday - 80, calm winds, and about a million
miles
> visibility. Judging by all his hootin' and hollerin', I think he also had
a
> great time. We flew over his house, and his kids were running around
waving
> their arms, and this T.P. drop missed the target by just 100 feet, or so,
into
> the neighbors yard !! His wife made one of the kids go pick up the T.P.
!!
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
> into a whole new realm of Pietenpol fun !!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
I think lock washers would screw up your torque values. Pal nuts go on
after the nut is torqued to prevent it backing off. What is the problem
with using pal nuts? They are cheap and easy.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pal Nuts
>
> Can anybody think of a reason why lock washers and nuts wont be as good as
> PAL Nuts and nuts?
>
> The case-to-case bolts on my A-65 are supposed to be locked with PAL nuts.
> Looks like lock washers would work to me. Or hi temp lock tite??
>
> Thanks,
> Bert (who has a brand new top end, inspected bottom end :>o, and hopes
to
> crank her up next weekend)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight w/pax |
In a message dated 10/26/03 9:02:20 AM Central Standard Time, dcombs(at)ltex.net
writes:
<< Pardon the ignorance, but what is T.P.? >>
Toilet Paper !! :)
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/25/03 9:12:30 PM Central Standard Time,
bconoly(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< Can anybody think of a reason why lock washers and nuts wont be as good as
PAL Nuts and nuts?
The case-to-case bolts on my A-65 are supposed to be locked with PAL nuts.
Looks like lock washers would work to me. Or hi temp lock tite??
Thanks,
Bert (who has a brand new top end, inspected bottom end :>o, and hopes to
crank her up next weekend) >>
Bert,
Lock washers will alter the torque values, as well as gouge the case. If you
use loc-tite, when it comes time for the next disassembly, it is quite
possible they will remove the studs from the case, possibly damaging the threads
in
the case. The engine was designed using pal nuts, and that's the way I went.
However, I have seen a Millennium engine on a J3 Cub, with locking nuts - the
type that has a little recessed dimple in the side - Certainly Not the type
with nyloc. The locking nuts will certainly alter the torque values also, and
I don't know how they compensated for that, other than reading the torque
wrench while turning the nut up on the threads, and adding that value to the
torque value. Call me old fasioned, but I still vote for pal nuts.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Noreasterners - don't read this... |
It's about 10 in the morn
on the Kansas corn,
with the skies so blue
and the frost now dew,
colorful leaves
laying limp on the trees,
It's time to kick the tires,
twang the wires,
and light the fire !!!
CONTACT !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight w/pax |
Toilet Paper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doyle K. Combs" <dcombs(at)ltex.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight w/pax
>
> Pardon the ignorance, but what is T.P.?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Flight w/pax
>
>
> >
> > It's official: NX770CG has lofted 'er first passenger into the sky
!!
> > Wednesday evening came with near perfect flying conditions. An old
buddy
> of
> > mine and his wife were on vacation to Branson Mi, and planned on
visiting
> with
> > me and my plane. He managed to climb in and out a couple of times
without
> > much problem, and we went over the harness, emergency procedures, and
> exactly
> > what the flight will entail. When he asked "Is it safe?" I said "It's
> > completely safe...as long as we don't crash !!"
> > A thorough pre-flight showed no reason to cancel the flight, and
after
> he
> > strapped in, I propped the ol' Continental and lit 'er up with the first
> > blade. Back taxi 34, run up, taxi into position. Right now, my
intercom
> is an
> > elevated voice level. I hollered "ARE YOU READY ?" He said "LETS GO
> !!", and
> > gave me thumbs up. Check clear runway, hold the brakes, full power,
oil
> pres
> > / temp check, let 'er go. Forward stick got the tail up in short order,
> but
> > the extra weight (highest gross weight ever), and kinda rough grass
field
> made
> > the take off roll reminiscent of flying behind the ol' Model A engine.
> The
> > rumble of the earth went away, and we were airborne, keep 'er in ground
> effect
> > for a short while to build some speed, and we climbed out at a shallow
48
> to
> > 50 mph indicated, maybe 200 fpm, albeit a positive rate of climb. We
did
> four
> > fly-bys with his wife taking pictures, and 'YEEE HAAAAWWWSSS" from us !!
> We
> > then departed the pattern to the South, for a scheduled two T.P. drop at
> > another friends house. Although we missed the target, it's a lot more
fun
> when I
> > have a bombadeer on board !! Returned to the field, and did a greaser
> landing
> > !! What a blast !! Everyone had a great time, even his wife !! They
> took me
> > out for a big Italian dinner, at Savoots 'Stick & Rudder' club for the
> post
> > flight brief. Full belly after a great flight...it just doesn't get any
> better
> > than this !!
> > I took my second passenger up on Thursday evening, when flying
> conditions
> > were even better than Wednesday - 80, calm winds, and about a million
> miles
> > visibility. Judging by all his hootin' and hollerin', I think he also
had
> a
> > great time. We flew over his house, and his kids were running around
> waving
> > their arms, and this T.P. drop missed the target by just 100 feet, or
so,
> into
> > the neighbors yard !! His wife made one of the kids go pick up the T.P.
> !!
> >
> > Chuck Gantzer
> > NX770CG
> > into a whole new realm of Pietenpol fun !!
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
I've already torqued the nuts. Do I have to torque the pal nuts, too - or
just snug them up to the nut?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pal Nuts
>
> I think lock washers would screw up your torque values. Pal nuts go on
> after the nut is torqued to prevent it backing off. What is the problem
> with using pal nuts? They are cheap and easy.
>
> Gene
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pal Nuts
>
>
>
> >
> > Can anybody think of a reason why lock washers and nuts wont be as good
as
> > PAL Nuts and nuts?
> >
> > The case-to-case bolts on my A-65 are supposed to be locked with PAL
nuts.
> > Looks like lock washers would work to me. Or hi temp lock tite??
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bert (who has a brand new top end, inspected bottom end :>o, and hopes
> to
> > crank her up next weekend)
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Full Size Pattern ???? |
>Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:32:05 -0400
>To: "Jack Textor"
>From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib Full Size Pattern ????
>
>I'll bite. What specifically do you mean by lofting?
>
>Jim Ash
>
>>While making my rib jig, I compaired the full size patteren with the
>>dimentions given in the plan. I lofted the measurements to the pattern.
>>They are off by 3/16th of an inch in places. It also seem like I have
>>too much room above the front spar and top capstrip. Which should I
>>beleive? When tanfering the dimentions to the jig, I have made sure the
>>spars are 27 3/4" apart and parallel.
>>Help! and Thanks!
>>Jack Textor
>>Des Moines
>>Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>Precedence: bulk
>>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight w/pax |
Toilet paper.
Old-timers used to throw a roll out of a plane, then circle the streamer
for practice as it descends. I've never done it myself, but always wanted
to try it.
Jim Ash
>
>Pardon the ignorance, but what is T.P.?
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Flight w/pax
>
>
> >
> > It's official: NX770CG has lofted 'er first passenger into the sky !!
> > Wednesday evening came with near perfect flying conditions. An old buddy
>of
> > mine and his wife were on vacation to Branson Mi, and planned on visiting
>with
> > me and my plane. He managed to climb in and out a couple of times without
> > much problem, and we went over the harness, emergency procedures, and
>exactly
> > what the flight will entail. When he asked "Is it safe?" I said "It's
> > completely safe...as long as we don't crash !!"
> > A thorough pre-flight showed no reason to cancel the flight, and after
>he
> > strapped in, I propped the ol' Continental and lit 'er up with the first
> > blade. Back taxi 34, run up, taxi into position. Right now, my intercom
>is an
> > elevated voice level. I hollered "ARE YOU READY ?" He said "LETS GO
>!!", and
> > gave me thumbs up. Check clear runway, hold the brakes, full power, oil
>pres
> > / temp check, let 'er go. Forward stick got the tail up in short order,
>but
> > the extra weight (highest gross weight ever), and kinda rough grass field
>made
> > the take off roll reminiscent of flying behind the ol' Model A engine.
>The
> > rumble of the earth went away, and we were airborne, keep 'er in ground
>effect
> > for a short while to build some speed, and we climbed out at a shallow 48
>to
> > 50 mph indicated, maybe 200 fpm, albeit a positive rate of climb. We did
>four
> > fly-bys with his wife taking pictures, and 'YEEE HAAAAWWWSSS" from us !!
>We
> > then departed the pattern to the South, for a scheduled two T.P. drop at
> > another friends house. Although we missed the target, it's a lot more fun
>when I
> > have a bombadeer on board !! Returned to the field, and did a greaser
>landing
> > !! What a blast !! Everyone had a great time, even his wife !! They
>took me
> > out for a big Italian dinner, at Savoots 'Stick & Rudder' club for the
>post
> > flight brief. Full belly after a great flight...it just doesn't get any
>better
> > than this !!
> > I took my second passenger up on Thursday evening, when flying
>conditions
> > were even better than Wednesday - 80, calm winds, and about a million
>miles
> > visibility. Judging by all his hootin' and hollerin', I think he also had
>a
> > great time. We flew over his house, and his kids were running around
>waving
> > their arms, and this T.P. drop missed the target by just 100 feet, or so,
>into
> > the neighbors yard !! His wife made one of the kids go pick up the T.P.
>!!
> >
> > Chuck Gantzer
> > NX770CG
> > into a whole new realm of Pietenpol fun !!
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Pal Nuts will not take much torque. Just snug them up.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pal Nuts
>
> I've already torqued the nuts. Do I have to torque the pal nuts, too - or
> just snug them up to the nut?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pal Nuts
>
>
> >
> > I think lock washers would screw up your torque values. Pal nuts go on
> > after the nut is torqued to prevent it backing off. What is the problem
> > with using pal nuts? They are cheap and easy.
> >
> > Gene
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pal Nuts
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Can anybody think of a reason why lock washers and nuts wont be as
good
> as
> > > PAL Nuts and nuts?
> > >
> > > The case-to-case bolts on my A-65 are supposed to be locked with PAL
> nuts.
> > > Looks like lock washers would work to me. Or hi temp lock tite??
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Bert (who has a brand new top end, inspected bottom end :>o, and
hopes
> > to
> > > crank her up next weekend)
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> |
Bert,
A friend of mine that just finished up his A&P at Penn Tech in
Williamsport said the PAL nuts are not required. I have a bunch of them
so I put them on. Got a whole coffee can full. If you want some let me
know and I'll mail them to you.
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Like he said, just snug them up.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pal Nuts
>
> Pal Nuts will not take much torque. Just snug them up.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pal Nuts
>
>
>
> >
> > I've already torqued the nuts. Do I have to torque the pal nuts, too -
or
> > just snug them up to the nut?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pal Nuts
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I think lock washers would screw up your torque values. Pal nuts go
on
> > > after the nut is torqued to prevent it backing off. What is the
problem
> > > with using pal nuts? They are cheap and easy.
> > >
> > > Gene
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pal Nuts
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Can anybody think of a reason why lock washers and nuts wont be as
> good
> > as
> > > > PAL Nuts and nuts?
> > > >
> > > > The case-to-case bolts on my A-65 are supposed to be locked with PAL
> > nuts.
> > > > Looks like lock washers would work to me. Or hi temp lock tite??
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Bert (who has a brand new top end, inspected bottom end :>o, and
> hopes
> > > to
> > > > crank her up next weekend)
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight w/pax |
You circle it to see how many times you can cut it before it hits the ground
(or you do). Cut it with the prop, not the wing. My personal best is five
cuts when thrown out at 1500'. The last cut is pretty low, though.
For best results, unroll and wad up the first 4-5 feet, which acts like a
drag chute to make the remainder unroll and stay in a straight vertical
line.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight w/pax
>
> Toilet paper.
>
> Old-timers used to throw a roll out of a plane, then circle the streamer
> for practice as it descends. I've never done it myself, but always wanted
> to try it.
>
> Jim Ash
>
> >
> >Pardon the ignorance, but what is T.P.?
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
> >To:
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Flight w/pax
> >
> >
> > >
> > > It's official: NX770CG has lofted 'er first passenger into the sky
!!
> > > Wednesday evening came with near perfect flying conditions. An old
buddy
> >of
> > > mine and his wife were on vacation to Branson Mi, and planned on
visiting
> >with
> > > me and my plane. He managed to climb in and out a couple of times
without
> > > much problem, and we went over the harness, emergency procedures, and
> >exactly
> > > what the flight will entail. When he asked "Is it safe?" I said
"It's
> > > completely safe...as long as we don't crash !!"
> > > A thorough pre-flight showed no reason to cancel the flight, and
after
> >he
> > > strapped in, I propped the ol' Continental and lit 'er up with the
first
> > > blade. Back taxi 34, run up, taxi into position. Right now, my
intercom
> >is an
> > > elevated voice level. I hollered "ARE YOU READY ?" He said "LETS GO
> >!!", and
> > > gave me thumbs up. Check clear runway, hold the brakes, full power,
oil
> >pres
> > > / temp check, let 'er go. Forward stick got the tail up in short
order,
> >but
> > > the extra weight (highest gross weight ever), and kinda rough grass
field
> >made
> > > the take off roll reminiscent of flying behind the ol' Model A engine.
> >The
> > > rumble of the earth went away, and we were airborne, keep 'er in
ground
> >effect
> > > for a short while to build some speed, and we climbed out at a shallow
48
> >to
> > > 50 mph indicated, maybe 200 fpm, albeit a positive rate of climb. We
did
> >four
> > > fly-bys with his wife taking pictures, and 'YEEE HAAAAWWWSSS" from us
!!
> >We
> > > then departed the pattern to the South, for a scheduled two T.P. drop
at
> > > another friends house. Although we missed the target, it's a lot more
fun
> >when I
> > > have a bombadeer on board !! Returned to the field, and did a greaser
> >landing
> > > !! What a blast !! Everyone had a great time, even his wife !! They
> >took me
> > > out for a big Italian dinner, at Savoots 'Stick & Rudder' club for the
> >post
> > > flight brief. Full belly after a great flight...it just doesn't get
any
> >better
> > > than this !!
> > > I took my second passenger up on Thursday evening, when flying
> >conditions
> > > were even better than Wednesday - 80, calm winds, and about a million
> >miles
> > > visibility. Judging by all his hootin' and hollerin', I think he also
had
> >a
> > > great time. We flew over his house, and his kids were running around
> >waving
> > > their arms, and this T.P. drop missed the target by just 100 feet, or
so,
> >into
> > > the neighbors yard !! His wife made one of the kids go pick up the
T.P.
> >!!
> > >
> > > Chuck Gantzer
> > > NX770CG
> > > into a whole new realm of Pietenpol fun !!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Hallsten's" <hallfamokc(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Full Size Pattern ???? |
Lofting is the process where you draw the pattern to full size on the board
you will use as the rib jig.
Kent
> >Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:32:05 -0400
> >To: "Jack Textor"
> >From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib Full Size Pattern ????
> >
> >I'll bite. What specifically do you mean by lofting?
> >
> >Jim Ash
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Full Size Pattern ???? |
Marine term. All boats and ships were first drawn out full size on the floor
of
the attic, or loft, of the building shed. Any discrepancies in the plans
would be
corrected and the full size parts would then be accurate. Just like when you
lay
out the full size drawings for fuse. sides, rudder, stab, etc on your
building table.
Between the devil and the deep blue sea, four sheets to the wind, road,
knots,
son of a gun, hard up, fly by night, aloof, spic and span, etc., etc. All
from sailing
and wooden boats. Hundreds more!
Clif
> >I'll bite. What specifically do you mean by lofting?
> >
> >Jim Ash
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Full Size Pattern ???? |
>
>Marine term. All boats and ships were first drawn out full size on the floor
>of
>the attic, or loft, of the building shed. Any discrepancies in the plans
>would be
>corrected and the full size parts would then be accurate. Just like when you
>lay
>out the full size drawings for fuse. sides, rudder, stab, etc on your
>building table.
>
>Between the devil and the deep blue sea, four sheets to the wind, road,
>knots,
>son of a gun, hard up, fly by night, aloof, spic and span, etc., etc. All
>from sailing
>and wooden boats. Hundreds more!
>
>Clif
>
>> >I'll bite. What specifically do you mean by lofting?
>> >
>> >Jim Ash
You beat me to it Clif; good explanation. The process of correcting
mistakes in the lofted patterns is known as 'fairing', i.e. to make the
lines of the boat look 'fair' (as in fair maiden - in distress of course) .
ARRRRGH!
Kip Gardner
(who traded a Navy town & a seafare-in' career for the wilds of inland Ohio)
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | toilet paper drop |
Call me chicken but isn't there a risk of the toilet paper mucking up
something on the plane when thrown out or when flown through? (Not that I'm
trying to be a little nag, I've just seen too many old war movies where the
parachute gets caught in the tail.) Do you have to throw it clear of the
tail... or to heck with it 'cause it's to week to hang on if it does get
caught. Also, when you hit it with a prop, what's the odds of it getting
into the cowling and causing other problems? (OK, now I am being a nag.)
Robert Haines
Du Quoin, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: toilet paper drop |
Is this where the phrase, "The s**t hits the fan" originated? Or do you
use a fresh roll... ;-)
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com Monday, October 27, 2003 9:33:30 AM >>>
Call me chicken but isn't there a risk of the toilet paper mucking up
something on the plane when thrown out or when flown through? (Not
that I'm
trying to be a little nag, I've just seen too many old war movies where
the
parachute gets caught in the tail.) Do you have to throw it clear of
the
tail... or to heck with it 'cause it's to week to hang on if it does
get
caught. Also, when you hit it with a prop, what's the odds of it
getting
into the cowling and causing other problems? (OK, now I am being a
nag.)
Robert Haines
Du Quoin, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Vydra <jvydra(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: toilet paper drop |
hmmmm....I thought toilet paper is always aimed at the tail
Robert Haines wrote:--> Pietenpol-List message posted
by: "Robert Haines"
Call me chicken but isn't there a risk of the toilet paper mucking up
something on the plane when thrown out or when flown through? (Not that I'm
trying to be a little nag, I've just seen too many old war movies where the
parachute gets caught in the tail.) Do you have to throw it clear of the
tail... or to heck with it 'cause it's to week to hang on if it does get
caught. Also, when you hit it with a prop, what's the odds of it getting
into the cowling and causing other problems? (OK, now I am being a nag.)
Robert Haines
Du Quoin, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Full Size Pattern ???? |
Cliff,
Very interesting! Can you explain each?
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib Full Size Pattern ????
>
> Marine term. All boats and ships were first drawn out full size on the
floor
> of
> the attic, or loft, of the building shed. Any discrepancies in the plans
> would be
> corrected and the full size parts would then be accurate. Just like when
you
> lay
> out the full size drawings for fuse. sides, rudder, stab, etc on your
> building table.
>
> Between the devil and the deep blue sea, four sheets to the wind, road,
> knots,
> son of a gun, hard up, fly by night, aloof, spic and span, etc., etc. All
> from sailing
> and wooden boats. Hundreds more!
>
> Clif
>
> > >I'll bite. What specifically do you mean by lofting?
> > >
> > >Jim Ash
> > >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <aircamper(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: toilet paper drop - picture2 |
found another shot we took that morning..... this taken just a few seconds before
"launch"
we were prepping the roll for an easy "tear-free" release.
www.imagedv.com/aircamper/ready-tp.jpg
DJ
_
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto direction |
I assume you have a mag off of a -12. If the mag has an impulse coupling,
then the impulse coupling will need to be changed for one with right hand
rotation for a -8 . The -12 uses left hand rotation. Otherwise, most, if
not all mags can be changed internally to rotate the other way.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: <Wizzard187(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Magneto direction
>
> Pieteres, I know that cont. A engines drive the magneto off the
crankshaft
> gear and cont 85-12s drive off the camshaft gear in the other direction.
My
> question is: can a magneto be changed to fit what I need?
> Ken Conrad In Long Grove Iowa with my beans in the bin and the best
> corn I've ever had.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Full Size Pattern ???? |
Also aircraft, my dad was the chief loftsman for AVRO, did the full size
patterns etc for the ARROW, CF-100, Avrocar, and Jetliner! I never did
understand why he taught me all that stuff, until we built a sailboat
together. I sometimes think he knew what skills I would need once I was
older, all that model airplane building, etc sure helps. Ease up on the
Navy lingo will ya? I'm an Airforce dude that has to live with the
Fisheads and fly helos off their boats. I mean ships. Glad you didn't
metion words like dobie dust and duff! Fair winds and following seas. .
.
Clif Dawson wrote:
>
>
> Marine term. All boats and ships were first drawn out full size on the floor
> of
> the attic, or loft, of the building shed. Any discrepancies in the plans
> would be
> corrected and the full size parts would then be accurate. Just like when you
> lay
> out the full size drawings for fuse. sides, rudder, stab, etc on your
> building table.
>
> Between the devil and the deep blue sea, four sheets to the wind, road,
> knots,
> son of a gun, hard up, fly by night, aloof, spic and span, etc., etc. All
> from sailing
> and wooden boats. Hundreds more!
>
> Clif
>
> > >I'll bite. What specifically do you mean by lofting?
> > >
> > >Jim Ash
> > >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
A friend of mine had a cylinder on his C-85 loosen up in flight. By the
time he got on the ground the cylinder was mangled and so was the case. NO
PAL Nuts.
Go figure. You safety EVERYTHING on an airplane EXCEPT the bolts that hold
the engine together. Does this make any sense?
When my buddy that trashed his engine has a visitor at his strip, he will
poke his head into the cowl to see if it has pal nuts. If the visitor does
not, he gives the visitor a small bag with the requesite pal nuts to take
with him and install at his leisure.
Use the Pal Nuts, despite what the experts say.... They are in the business
of selling engines...
chris bobka
A&P IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Lawler" <clawler(at)ptd.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: PAL nuts
>
> Bert,
>
> A friend of mine that just finished up his A&P at Penn Tech in
> Williamsport said the PAL nuts are not required. I have a bunch of them
> so I put them on. Got a whole coffee can full. If you want some let me
> know and I'll mail them to you.
>
> Craig
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight w/pax |
Way to go, Chuck ! Sharing the ride is much of the thrill of having one
of these !!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | toilet paper and crepe paper |
guys-- don't cut the paper with your prop----you could get a chunk under
your cooling eyebrows and if caught it will start to smolder. We had it
happen on a Champ and it was not pretty.
Crepe paper from Wal Mart is a hoot to drop as well. Same procedure--
crumple up the first foot or so of it to act as a drag streamer, get real
slow, pivot the rudder out of the way and toss the roll over your
shoulder. We try to hit the crepe paper about 1/2 span as it's falling
over the wing and then if it doesn't break it will stay ON your wing as a
50 foot long two-tailed streamer. If you are really having a good day you
climb back up, toss out a second roll and put that over your other wing and
fly round town with two big old streamers hanging off your wings !!! Too
much fun.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Altimeter update |
Chris,
Another guy to try for the altimeter overhaul is W. Wayne Jordan Co. 759
Main Street, Johnson City, NY 13790 and phone is 607 797 9184
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Altimeter update
>
> Well thanks to this list I was able to get in contact with Keystone
> Instruments (ask for Ken 570 748 7083). They said they could restore my
old
> altimeter to working condition. I'm still trying to get in touch with
some
> thers to see what they will charge. I was not aware of all the things
> Keystone can do to newer instruments to make them look old. And the prices
did
> not seem too bad. It was worth talking to them just for the options it
opens
> up.
>
> Thanks for all the help
>
> Chris T.
> Sacramento, Ca
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Smith" <lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com> |
| Subject: | toilet paper drop |
SMTPD_IN_RCVD
> Toilet paper is designed to disintegrate immediately
> on being flushed so it's pretty delicate. Not much
> chance of it getting caught up somewhere like
> writing paper would.
>
Delicate it may be, but if a piece of it gets somewhere near an exhaust
pipe, it can make for some interesting aerobatics when you think the plane
is on fire and you try to get on the ground ASAP. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | toilet paper and crepe paper |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Reminds me of a fun day with TP. I was dropping an cutting with the
wings one day. Suddenly the roll of TP was gone. I turned and couldn't
find the either section. I knew I had had a direct hit, right in the
middle. It was then I saw hundreds of TP squares all over the place.
Stretched out for 1/4 mile or so were fluttering squares of TP waifing
along in the sunlight. I wish I could repeat that one. I figure the
roll didn't break as the wing snagged it, and as it accelerated the
trailing edge of the TP had flutter induced failure and each square
broke off till it was all gone.
So cool...
Steve e
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: toilet paper and crepe paper
guys-- don't cut the paper with your prop----you could get a chunk under
your cooling eyebrows and if caught it will start to smolder. We had it
happen on a Champ and it was not pretty.
Crepe paper from Wal Mart is a hoot to drop as well. Same procedure--
crumple up the first foot or so of it to act as a drag streamer, get
real
slow, pivot the rudder out of the way and toss the roll over your
shoulder. We try to hit the crepe paper about 1/2 span as it's falling
over the wing and then if it doesn't break it will stay ON your wing as
a
50 foot long two-tailed streamer. If you are really having a good day
you
climb back up, toss out a second roll and put that over your other wing
and
fly round town with two big old streamers hanging off your wings !!!
Too
much fun.
Mike C.
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | smoldering over Lake Erie |
Ole friend from high school Art Ritchie and I (now a United pilot) got a
chunk of toilet paper (we hit a bunched-up area) stuck in the Champ cowl
over the cylinder fins while doing a drop over the lake and boy was he
sorry he did that. Me too as he was giving me the 15 hours of dual I
needed on the Champ to get on the insurance since I was a novice
taildragger guy at the time. (still am, just older) We both about
crapped our pants as we smelled smoke. We pointed that thing towards
Norwalk Airport and in about 10 minutes we were on the ground. That
plane had toiled paper scraps hanging all over the place. The owner of
Norwalk came out to say hi to us and laughed at what he saw. We had
been found out. We popped the top cowl half off to remove the partially
burned/charred paper from the fins and baffle area. From then on we
always diced up the paper with the wings.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | smoldering over Lake Erie |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I don't remember where I heard it, but someone related that once they
hit it head on and the TP plugged up the carb air intake and severely
limited RPM causing another sooner-than-expected trip back to the
airport.
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: smoldering over Lake Erie
Ole friend from high school Art Ritchie and I (now a United pilot)
got a
chunk of toilet paper (we hit a bunched-up area) stuck in the Champ
cowl
over the cylinder fins while doing a drop over the lake and boy was he
sorry he did that. Me too as he was giving me the 15 hours of dual I
needed on the Champ to get on the insurance since I was a novice
taildragger guy at the time. (still am, just older) We both about
crapped our pants as we smelled smoke. We pointed that thing towards
Norwalk Airport and in about 10 minutes we were on the ground. That
plane had toiled paper scraps hanging all over the place. The owner of
Norwalk came out to say hi to us and laughed at what he saw. We had
been found out. We popped the top cowl half off to remove the
partially
burned/charred paper from the fins and baffle area. From then on we
always diced up the paper with the wings.
Mike C.
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: smoldering over Lake Erie |
I guess I can't argue with actual experience, but I have never heard of it
happening or had it happen to me, and I've cut a few cases of paper over the
years. I'd still say cut it with the prop, because, as others have pointed
out, the wing usually does not cut it but drags the paper. Maybe you guys
had it at idle??
Anyway, another piece of advice is to cut it from the TOP. If you hit the
bottom, it bunches up. Hit it a few feet from the top each time and it will
stay streamed out. (I do this "ribbon cut" act most weekends at the Flying
Circus in Bealeton, VA)
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: smoldering over Lake Erie
>
> Ole friend from high school Art Ritchie and I (now a United pilot) got
a
> chunk of toilet paper (we hit a bunched-up area) stuck in the Champ cowl
> over the cylinder fins while doing a drop over the lake and boy was he
> sorry he did that. Me too as he was giving me the 15 hours of dual I
> needed on the Champ to get on the insurance since I was a novice
> taildragger guy at the time. (still am, just older) We both about
> crapped our pants as we smelled smoke. We pointed that thing towards
> Norwalk Airport and in about 10 minutes we were on the ground. That
> plane had toiled paper scraps hanging all over the place. The owner of
> Norwalk came out to say hi to us and laughed at what he saw. We had
> been found out. We popped the top cowl half off to remove the
partially
> burned/charred paper from the fins and baffle area. From then on we
> always diced up the paper with the wings.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto direction |
Pieters, Thanks for the help with the magneto direction. I think I know
what I am doing now. The mags have a "L and "R" on a gear inside and that has
to be changed to match the arrow on the matching gear. I can't use impulses
on a dash 9 cont. so that isn't a problem. Thanks again Ken Conrad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: toilet paper and crepe paper |
I had a friend cutting t.p. with his EAA biplane and a large bunch stacked
up on the flying wires or n struts and blocked out the aleron and he doesn't
do it anymore. Just a comment. Ken Conrad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | smoldering over Lake Erie |
That was me, Steve. Good thing I remembered that the carb heat also
bypassed the air cleaner, giving free air to the engine. I had hit the TP
near the wingtip and it got caught in the wingtip vortex. When I came
around on the next pass, it made such a pretty spiral that I couldn't resist
putting the nose right through the center of the spiral. Bad move - it
packed TP into the cooling shrouds and the cleaner and made the flight a
whole lot more exciting than I wanted it to be. After that, I stuck to
dropping watermelons.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Eldredge
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: smoldering over Lake Erie
I don't remember where I heard it, but someone related that once they
hit it head on and the TP plugged up the carb air intake and severely
limited RPM causing another sooner-than-expected trip back to the
airport.
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: smoldering over Lake Erie
Ole friend from high school Art Ritchie and I (now a United pilot)
got a
chunk of toilet paper (we hit a bunched-up area) stuck in the Champ
cowl
over the cylinder fins while doing a drop over the lake and boy was he
sorry he did that. Me too as he was giving me the 15 hours of dual I
needed on the Champ to get on the insurance since I was a novice
taildragger guy at the time. (still am, just older) We both about
crapped our pants as we smelled smoke. We pointed that thing towards
Norwalk Airport and in about 10 minutes we were on the ground. That
plane had toiled paper scraps hanging all over the place. The owner of
Norwalk came out to say hi to us and laughed at what he saw. We had
been found out. We popped the top cowl half off to remove the
partially
burned/charred paper from the fins and baffle area. From then on we
always diced up the paper with the wings.
Mike C.
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Smith" <lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com> |
| Subject: | smoldering over Lake Erie |
Bad move - it
> packed TP into the cooling shrouds and the cleaner and made the flight a
> whole lot more exciting than I wanted it to be. After that, I stuck to
> dropping watermelons.
>
> Jack
>
But wouldn't hitting a watermelon tend to crush the spinner? :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | toilet paper breaks---crepe paper sometimes does not |
Gene-----I've never seen any toilet paper that could hold up to a wing and
fold over. Think you were crossing the two ideas I was telling about w/
the crepe paper which does stretch nicely over the wing if you don't hit it
too fast. Then you have this nice streamer trailing off your wing. Too
close though to the prop and it won't survive the propwash area. If you
find some toilet paper that won't break on a wing, don't wipe yourself with
it because it's most likely 40 grit or better:)))
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
sometimes does not
| Subject: | Re: toilet paper breaks---crepe paper |
sometimes does not
I feel more and more fortunate to be living in "modern times" every
single day. It scares the hell out of me to think of what a Sears
catalog would do to a wing... ;-)
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov Wednesday, October 29, 2003 8:06:44 AM
>>>
Gene-----I've never seen any toilet paper that could hold up to a wing
and
fold over. Think you were crossing the two ideas I was telling about
w/
the crepe paper which does stretch nicely over the wing if you don't
hit it
too fast. Then you have this nice streamer trailing off your wing.
Too
close though to the prop and it won't survive the propwash area. If
you
find some toilet paper that won't break on a wing, don't wipe yourself
with
it because it's most likely 40 grit or better:)))
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: toilet paper breaks---crepe paper sometimes does not |
Sounds like GI issue....CV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com> |
Shellac may be fine for coating cork that floats in avgas but do not use it
for auto gas. I have a 1926 Disappearing Propellor Boat (from Canada) that
uses a Kingston carb. Originally, the cork carb floats were coated with
shellac which worked fine. Today's gas has many additives including some
that dissolve the shellac. Then the float sinks and gas pours in through the
needle and seat and overflows over the bowl and collects in the bilge. By
this time the engine has stopped so you have to take apart your carb and put
in a new cork float (if you have one). This all happens during a raging sea
on Georgian Bay.
The lesson is to coat your float with a thin layer of epoxy that is
impervious to the additives (toxins) in today's auto gas. Never had a
problem since.
Jeff in beautiful clear warm TX where I've just cut out the ailerons from
the wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
4130 wire wheel hubs. I know I.ve seen the plans several times, but just now when
I need them, I can't remember what they are printed in. Are they on the net
any place? Or are they in a newsletter? Dang, this getting older just ain't as
good as they say it is.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Hannan" <isp.inc(at)verizon.net> |
Group: All of the wood work on my Pietenpol almost completed and it is time to
put on a clear finish, what clear are you guys using?
Thanks,
Ken Hannan
Temecula, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
I had the same question recently.
I went to the Archive Search Engine (the link's at the bottom of these email messages)
and did a search on "varnish & covering" and found a wealth of information.
Pretty amazing really how much is there....
Give that a try.
Jim in Plano
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Hannan <isp.inc(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood finish
Group: All of the wood work on my Pietenpol almost completed and it is time to
put on a clear finish, what clear are you guys using?
Thanks,
Ken Hannan
Temecula, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Hubs |
I'm interested in any info on wire wheels as well, haven't gone through
the archives yet, but I will, I promise. Any assitance greatly
appreciated
Barry Davis wrote:
>
>
> 4130 wire wheel hubs. I know I.ve seen the plans several times, but just now
when I need them, I can't remember what they are printed in. Are they on the net
any place? Or are they in a newsletter? Dang, this getting older just ain't
as good as they say it is.
> Barry
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 10/29/2003 1:18:52 PM Central Standard Time,
jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com writes:
The lesson is to coat your float with a thin layer of epoxy that is
impervious to the additives (toxins) in today's auto gas. Never had a
problem since.
I have had a bottle cork that I coated with t-88 floating in a jar with auto
gas for over six months. Look at it periodically and have found no
deterioration to date. And the cork is still showing the same displacement. For
what it's
worth Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/29/03 1:18:53 PM Central Standard Time,
jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< The lesson is to coat your float with a thin layer of epoxy that is
impervious to the additives (toxins) in today's auto gas. Never had a
problem since. >>
I used Polyester Resin to coat the cork...the auto body stuff. It's the same
material I used to build my two fuel tanks with. This will also serve to
find out if something in the fuel, like alcohol, has deteriated the resin the
tank is made from.
Yesterday, I was taking off from a local grass strip, and didn't realize
how high one of the whooptie doo's were. I had 15 gal of fuel onboard, and on
take off run, the tail came up, airspeed was just passing 30 mph, and Ba-Wump
!! It was like a ramp that tossed 'er in the air before she was ready to fly
!! I managed to hold 'er off in ground effect, and flew out of it. Surprise
take-off for sure, but she took care of me!!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
I can hardly wait for someone to ask what a "whooptie doo" is........
---- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cork floats
>
> In a message dated 10/29/03 1:18:53 PM Central Standard Time,
> jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
> << The lesson is to coat your float with a thin layer of epoxy that is
> impervious to the additives (toxins) in today's auto gas. Never had a
> problem since. >>
>
> I used Polyester Resin to coat the cork...the auto body stuff. It's the
same
> material I used to build my two fuel tanks with. This will also serve to
> find out if something in the fuel, like alcohol, has deteriated the resin
the
> tank is made from.
> Yesterday, I was taking off from a local grass strip, and didn't
realize
> how high one of the whooptie doo's were. I had 15 gal of fuel onboard,
and on
> take off run, the tail came up, airspeed was just passing 30 mph, and
Ba-Wump
> !! It was like a ramp that tossed 'er in the air before she was ready to
fly
> !! I managed to hold 'er off in ground effect, and flew out of it.
Surprise
> take-off for sure, but she took care of me!!
>
> Chuck G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/29/03 8:56:05 PM Central Standard Time,
jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
<< I can hardly wait for someone to ask what a "whooptie doo" is........ >>
Jim,
The context I used the 'whoopie doo' term, was in describing the uneven
surface of the grass runway. No doubt, it was derived from a nautical term meaning
'Sailing across the white tops'. :)
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | smoldering over Lake Erie |
--- Ed Smith wrote:
>
>
>
> Bad move - it
> > packed TP into the cooling shrouds and the cleaner and made the
> flight a
> > whole lot more exciting than I wanted it to be. After that, I
> stuck to
> > dropping watermelons.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> But wouldn't hitting a watermelon tend to crush the spinner? :-)
>
This list is great! ROFL
Saludos
Gary Gower.
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
I've finally got the camera working again.
The basic fuse is now complete. I think
I should stop here and make metal things
to go onto it.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=27
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | great pics, Cliff |
Excellent photos, Cliff. Great looking work and details on how you did
things. A wealth of info there for the visual people out there like me.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "catdesign(at)intergate.com" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Hubs |
I just sent a scan of the wire wheel article to Barry and Dave. Any one else
need it. It's about a 3 meg jpg file.
Chris T.
Sacramento, Ca
uoting dave rowe :
>
> I'm interested in any info on wire wheels as well, haven't gone through
> the archives yet, but I will, I promise. Any assitance greatly
> appreciated
>
> Barry Davis wrote:
> >
> >
> > 4130 wire wheel hubs. I know I.ve seen the plans several times, but just
> now when I need them, I can't remember what they are printed in. Are they on
> the net any place? Or are they in a newsletter? Dang, this getting older just
> ain't as good as they say it is.
> > Barry
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Personal pilot flight range extender kit |
The successful use of a good quality Ziplock bag for a personal pilot
flight range extender kit depends on several things:
1. Ability to work with bulky winter clothing (snowmobile suit, etc.) in
cold cockpit environment.
2. Ability to work without dramatic body contortions within the finite
cockpit space.
3. Ability of pilot and airplane to cooperate in the flight path of the
airplane while pilot is distracted. Historical evidence shows that such
actions almost always take much more time than anticipated by pilot
types. Pilots should realize that most of their bad flight experiences
have been "trying to get the damn thing going (takeoff) and trying to get
the damned thing stopped (landing)." In between (cruise?) is the easy
part. That is the essence of a lot of life's experiences.
4. Use of a good quality absorbent material housed within the Ziplock
bag. Never, never, use the
Ziplock bag without
absorbent material such as Modess, Depends, etc. already installed in the
Ziplock.
Adequate anecdotal literature shows that this can be a portender for disaster.
For you more esoteric research people, a service to mankind (too gender
specific?) would be to conduct quasi-scientific studies on the best
generic size of the Ziplock and the most practical absorbent
material. Results can be published in a scientific journal such as the
Piet group chatline. There may be research grants available.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Hubs |
Thanks Chris
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Hubs
>
> I just sent a scan of the wire wheel article to Barry and Dave. Any one
else
> need it. It's about a 3 meg jpg file.
>
>
> Chris T.
> Sacramento, Ca
>
>
> uoting dave rowe :
>
> >
> > I'm interested in any info on wire wheels as well, haven't gone through
> > the archives yet, but I will, I promise. Any assitance greatly
> > appreciated
> >
> > Barry Davis wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > 4130 wire wheel hubs. I know I.ve seen the plans several times, but
just
> > now when I need them, I can't remember what they are printed in. Are
they on
> > the net any place? Or are they in a newsletter? Dang, this getting older
just
> > ain't as good as they say it is.
> > > Barry
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Hubs |
I don't mean to but in, but there's an article by Grant Maclaren on Howard
Henderson's wire wheels on p. 36 of theMarch 1990 issue of Kitplanes. Also see
p.10 of issue 10/Jan 2003 BPA Newsletter and p. 3 of issue 4/July 2001 BPA
Newsletter. Is the article being emailed different from these? If so, I'd like
to
add it to my references. Carl Vought
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
I friends
Yes, that's right Gary.... i think that this list is
very usefull, i am learn to work wood, welding,
mechanic, etc.. and of course to try to speak english.
Well i am back at home, after to take a good 15 days
of GII flight training at Dallas,Tx.. and ready for
work on the Piet.. by the way, i want to thanks to
Jim for the help there...
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doyle K. Combs" <dcombs(at)ltex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cutting aircraft cable |
Oscar, I received one of the plates for the Pietenpol. I don't think I ever
paid you for it. Please send me a reply email with your mailing address.
Sorry I am so long.
Doyle Combs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cutting aircraft cable
>
> Howdy, folks;
>
> You know how all the tips and how-to's for cutting aircraft cable say to
use
> a cold chisel and hammer (including Bingelis' books)? The problem is,
once
> you've gotten your cable fitted and nicopressed in position, at least on
one
> end of the cable there is no way to get a chisel, hammer, or anything else
> in there to do the cutting. So here's a nifty tip from one of the old
> Pietenpol newsletters for when you've got the cable all nicopressed in
place
> and are ready to cut off the tag end. Take your Dremel tool with the
small
> abrasive cut-off wheel and use it to slice through the tag end! Slip a
> small piece of stainless or other metal between the tag end and the
standing
> cable so your cutoff wheel doesn't nick the standing part of the cable as
it
> cuts through, and before you start cutting wrap the whole thing with some
> masking tape to catch the cutoff bits of cable.
>
> And you did remember to slip a piece of heat-shrink tubing over the cable
> before you fitted the cable and nico, didn't you? After cutting off the
> excess cable and making sure everything is fitted, cover the nico and cut
> end with heat shrink tubing (unless you're concerned about your inspector
or
> designee not being able to see that the cables are properly nico'd).
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Vintage looking gauges |
My project is starting to look like an airplane and it is time to start
thinking about the instrument panel.
Does anyone know where to find mechanical oil temp and pressure gauges with
that Vintage or Classic look? I find lots of beautiful gauges that qualify
but are electric.
Thanks,
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Hubs |
Would love a copy. Dave Rowe
Barry Davis wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Chris
> Barry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Hubs
>
>
> >
> > I just sent a scan of the wire wheel article to Barry and Dave. Any one
> else
> > need it. It's about a 3 meg jpg file.
> >
> >
> > Chris T.
> > Sacramento, Ca
> >
> >
> > uoting dave rowe :
> >
> > >
> > > I'm interested in any info on wire wheels as well, haven't gone through
> > > the archives yet, but I will, I promise. Any assitance greatly
> > > appreciated
> > >
> > > Barry Davis wrote:
> > > >
>
> > > >
> > > > 4130 wire wheel hubs. I know I.ve seen the plans several times, but
> just
> > > now when I need them, I can't remember what they are printed in. Are
> they on
> > > the net any place? Or are they in a newsletter? Dang, this getting older
> just
> > > ain't as good as they say it is.
> > > > Barry
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: great pics, Cliff |
Thanks Mike. I should explain a few things though.
All the wood used is hemlock. I ran around in
circles trying to get 14' lengths.Not made in the size
of material I was collecting, which is 1 1/16X 1 1/16"
Nobody knows why it's made in that size. It's a
molding material.I finally took two perfect 8' lengths
and spliced them together ( no, it's not a mainbrace )
with a 24" splice. That occurs just behind the pilot's
seat and all sides are covered in 1/8" ply. Since there
is a considerable weight variation in hemlock I spliced
a light piece to a heavy one, heavy to the front. I waited
for some time as I was trying to get ahold of a planer to
reduce this stuff to 1" X 1" but finally said to H with it
and built the fuse. It should be like a vault and since
hem is lighter on average than spruce anyway it shoudn't
be any heavier. Also I took a page from your book and
am buiding in an openning on the bottom from pilot seat
back to the next crossmember. Oh yes, I have increased
the fuse width to 25" to the front seat back so it tapers
to 24" at the pilots seat back. My mockpit told me that
it would be more comfortable and safer from the
standpoint of arm movements around that side brace
in there. My elbow kept hitting it moving the stick
around.
Clif
>
> Excellent photos, Cliff. Great looking work and details on how you did
> things. A wealth of info there for the visual people out there like me.
>
> Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Stewart Warner Wings Vintage Gauges |
Ted-- was just looking thru my Stewart Warner Catalog last night. You can
try them on line at
this web site: http://www.stewartwarner.com/Catalog/2wng.html
They make modern gauges too but this 'Wings' product line has the older
vintage look--tho it might be meant for cars, it's the right price for
aeroplane builders !
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | S-W web site home page |
http://www.stewartwarner.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Can anybody tell me what happens if a cork sits in auto gas and isn't sealed with
something? I'm tryint to figure out what would happen. Does it get sink eventually
or come apart?
Douwe
Douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Engine Mount for Corvair |
Fellow Pietenpol builders,
I am ready to weld up my engine mount for a Corvair engine. I have a question.
The drawing for the Corvair engine mount shows a 5/8-.035 spacer for item 2.
As I understand the drawing this is for spacing the tabs that bolt to the firewall
with the 5/16 bolts. As I think through this it seems to me that the
spacers would be welded to the ends of the 3/4 .049 4130 tubes that will be also
welded to the tabs that hold it to the firewall. Is this assumption correct?
Thanks for your assistance.
Alex Sloan
alexms1(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lynn & Doris Knoll" <dknoll(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Mount for Corvair |
Alex, your assumption is correct. The professional welder who welded our
mount welded the 3/4 tubes (all around) first and then fitted the tabs and
welded them last.
Lynn Knoll
Wichita, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine Mount for Corvair
>
> Fellow Pietenpol builders,
> I am ready to weld up my engine mount for a Corvair engine. I have a
question. The drawing for the Corvair engine mount shows a 5/8-.035 spacer
for item 2. As I understand the drawing this is for spacing the tabs that
bolt to the firewall with the 5/16 bolts. As I think through this it seems
to me that the spacers would be welded to the ends of the 3/4 .049 4130
tubes that will be also welded to the tabs that hold it to the firewall. Is
this assumption correct?
> Thanks for your assistance.
> Alex Sloan
> alexms1(at)bellsouth.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Articles in EAA and related publications |
You may all know about this already, but for those who don't, there is an
excellent bibliography of Piet articles that can be accessed at the following
address:
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/selecting/kits/Pietenpol%20Aircamper.html..................... ...Carl Vought
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Hubs |
Chris,
I would love to get the wire wheel info. That is the way I am going.
Alex Sloan
alexms1(at)bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Hubs
>
> I just sent a scan of the wire wheel article to Barry and Dave. Any one
else
> need it. It's about a 3 meg jpg file.
>
>
> Chris T.
> Sacramento, Ca
>
>
> uoting dave rowe :
>
> >
> > I'm interested in any info on wire wheels as well, haven't gone through
> > the archives yet, but I will, I promise. Any assitance greatly
> > appreciated
> >
> > Barry Davis wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > 4130 wire wheel hubs. I know I.ve seen the plans several times, but
just
> > now when I need them, I can't remember what they are printed in. Are
they on
> > the net any place? Or are they in a newsletter? Dang, this getting older
just
> > ain't as good as they say it is.
> > > Barry
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Hubs |
Hi Chris...If you wouldn't mind, please include me in the wire wheel hub
article emailing..Thank you Carl Vought
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: great pics, Cliff |
>
>Thanks Mike. I should explain a few things though.
>All the wood used is hemlock. I ran around in
>circles trying to get 14' lengths.Not made in the size
>of material I was collecting, which is 1 1/16X 1 1/16"
>Nobody knows why it's made in that size.
>My mockpit told me that
>it would be more comfortable and safer from the
>standpoint of arm movements around that side brace
>in there. My elbow kept hitting it moving the stick
>around.
>
>Clif
Clif,
Here's a second (or third) on great photos & a great-looking project. I
particularly liked your throttle quadrant & will probably plagerize, but
everything looks first-rate.
I was wondering if you could tell me how you set up your rear cockpit
panel. I really liked the extra room at the bottom, but was wondering what
you did about the crosspiece that normally goes between the longerons at
that point. Is it still there behind the panel, or did you do something
else?
Thanks!
Kip Gardner
(fighting off another round of kidney stones - this time ARRRGH! has
nothing to do with pirates)
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
In reference to the list of EAA magazine articles about about the venerable
Pietenpol airplanes that Carl Vought referenced, if I can be of any help
with these, let me know. I don't mean to do Sue Lurvey at the EAA library
out of any business, but if you wonder about an article or maybe even want
a copy, perhaps at times I can look it up and/or copy it.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stewart Warner Wings Vintage Gauges |
Mike,
Thanks. SW Wings are what got me hooked. But only electric. I am really
resisting going electric as long as I can pull a prop....
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stewart Warner Wings Vintage Gauges
>
> Ted-- was just looking thru my Stewart Warner Catalog last night. You
can
> try them on line at
> this web site: http://www.stewartwarner.com/Catalog/2wng.html
>
> They make modern gauges too but this 'Wings' product line has the older
> vintage look--tho it might be meant for cars, it's the right price for
> aeroplane builders !
>
> Mike
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dpaul" <dpaul(at)fidnet.com> |
Hello,
Chris, I would also appreciate some information about the wire wheel hubs.
Thanks! Dave Paulsen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Hubs |
A suggestion regarding wire wheels.....
Dale and I followed Howard Hendersons hub plans which accomodate 40 spokes.
After the hubs were made we went to the motorcycle boneyard to find rims.
We discovered that 40 spoke rims are much less common than 36 spoke rims.
The boneyard had shelves full of 36 spoke rims but 40 spoke rims were quite
rare.
My next set will be 36 spoke hubs.
Greg Cardinal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | All New Matronics Email List Online Chat!!! |
Hi Listers!
A number of Listers have been asking for some Matronics Email List online
chat and NOW ITS HERE! Over the last couple of days I've set up a nifty
web-based Chat site here on the Matronics systems. No special programs to
download; all you need is a late model web browser like Internet Explorer
or Netscape with a java plugin. I would recommend downloading the latest
Java plugin if you experience any problems getting the page to come
up. Here's a link to the Sun Java download
website. http://java.com/en/index.jsp Look for the green box with the
yellow arrow in the upper right corner. Before you bother, though, just
try you browser because it'll probably just work.
Each Email List on Matronics has its own "Room" and all rooms can easily be
accessed from the same client. In the Email List URL Trailer at the bottom
of each List message, you'll find the Link to this List's specific Chat
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in the User Name box. Try to use a name or email address that the other
Listers know you by. You'll find me lurking around the various List chat
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There's a couple of nifty features I'll explain right off. On the main
Chat Window page after you login, you'll see a little icon with a Hammer
and a Screwdriver. This is the Control Panel window. Once the Control
Panel comes up, click on the "Settings" tab. Here you'll find, among other
things, three check boxes to enable sound. Click all three and you'll be
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The other cool button is the one that has four little arrows pointing to
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Let's have some fun and get to know one another better using this awesome
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Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
PS - I'm working on a web link interface to the chat logfiles. Coming soon...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: great pics, Cliff |
Kip,
Thanks, and I have to apologize. I had to laugh heartily
at your gallstone comment even though I've been told
they are somewhat! painful, Sorry.
Feel free to plagerize all you want. I even laid out the
parts in a pic for that purpose.
The only thing I can think of for the space is that I took
it upon myself to deepen the fuse to 25" as well as the
extra width. The crosspiece is still there.
I hope you get better without too much pain. Unless you
have masochistic tendencies.
Know the difference between a masochist and a sadist?
A masochist is someone who says " Beat me, beat me!"
A true sadist? That's someone who says......No!
Clif
> Clif,
>
> Here's a second (or third) on great photos & a great-looking project. I
> particularly liked your throttle quadrant & will probably plagerize, but
> everything looks first-rate.
>
> I was wondering if you could tell me how you set up your rear cockpit
> panel. I really liked the extra room at the bottom, but was wondering what
> you did about the crosspiece that normally goes between the longerons at
> that point. Is it still there behind the panel, or did you do something
> else?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> (fighting off another round of kidney stones - this time ARRRGH! has
> nothing to do with pirates)
>
>
> North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stewart Warner Wings Vintage Gauges |
What are the prices on the guages? I couldn't find them anywhere on the
website.
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2003 List Fund Raiser - Please Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
During November of each year, I have a voluntary Email List Fund Raiser to
support the continued operation, development, maintenance and upgrade of
the Email Forums sponsored here. Your Contributions go directly into
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The traffic on the Lists continues to grow and the numbers are nothing
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* 11/01/2002 - 10/31/2003
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As you can well imagine, this year's upgrades translate into a fair amount
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*no-commercial-advertisement policy* on the Matronics Lists and associated
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Over the next month I'll be posting a few reminder messages about the List
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http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
My IP, TP and I went out this beautiful La afternoon to get a little dual
time. Soon after he propped the A-65 : no oil pressure: I tapped on the dial but
still no movement. Sooooooooooooooooooo with cut it off, disconnected the
pressure line at the f/w, put it in a jar, started the engine: no oil running into
the jar:
I need some analyses. It has about 1 hour since oil change. Engine has not
been run in over 2 months. Does it appear that the oil pump needs some sort of
priming like we used to have to do with the old water well pump down in the
country?
I sure need some input on this problem.
Thanks
Corky and Edwin in beautiful 82 degree weather wanting to fly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure |
Corky,
I remember this happening when my 65 had been rebuilt and on the plane but
sat with no real run time. Checked the book for the lube sequence. Pretty
sure I took the cap off the strainer, and pumped oil in there. That drained
oil right to the gears in the pump like Roux on deveined shrimp :
). The
pressure came back , and all has been well since.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oil Pressure
>
>
> Pieters,
>
> My IP, TP and I went out this beautiful La afternoon to get a little dual
> time. Soon after he propped the A-65 : no oil pressure: I tapped on the
dial but
> still no movement. Sooooooooooooooooooo with cut it off, disconnected the
> pressure line at the f/w, put it in a jar, started the engine: no oil
running into
> the jar:
> I need some analyses. It has about 1 hour since oil change. Engine has not
> been run in over 2 months. Does it appear that the oil pump needs some
sort of
> priming like we used to have to do with the old water well pump down in
the
> country?
> I sure need some input on this problem.
> Thanks
>
> Corky and Edwin in beautiful 82 degree weather wanting to fly
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure |
Thanks Walt,
I'll go tomorrow and Roux that engine and if all goes well. Weather is
suppose to be 85 tomorrow afternoon. Who knows what might happen as I taxi up and
down Bluebird field while checking that oil pressure. Have to be safe under all
happenings.
Corky in beautiful Louisiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure |
Corky,
Keep an eye on that pressure, and if you should break ground, and the trees
are getting close, only one thing to do to save life and limb.......Oh well.
Today in NJ was great, in the mid 50's in the AM. Climbed out and went into
a warm layer. (climbed like a rocket) Dead smooth, that I flew around in
for 1/2 hour. One end of the valley was like going into a fridge, , turned
around. Flew in the warm till ready to land. Broke down into the cold/
gusty bottom to land.
ain't life grand!!!
walt evans
NX140DL
PS. talked to my mentor today about my first annual inspection. Gave me
some good pointers. Going to borrow his compression checker, that looks
like a tire guage, with a stem that comes up. He said that it's one from
the old radials. They had one in each cly. and when they cranked the
engine, you could see each one pop up with the turn of the engine.
cool! :
)
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oil Pressure
>
> Thanks Walt,
>
> I'll go tomorrow and Roux that engine and if all goes well. Weather is
> suppose to be 85 tomorrow afternoon. Who knows what might happen as I taxi
up and
> down Bluebird field while checking that oil pressure. Have to be safe
under all
> happenings.
>
> Corky in beautiful Louisiana
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure |
Got the same thing on my Taylorcraft after a long storage and several guys
on the Taylorcraft group said to have someone lift the tail HIGH and pull
the prop through (funny how many Piet fans like Taylorcrafts too). It's
hard to lift it too high and amazing how much ground clearance you REALLY
have. Don't forget to make absolutely sure the mags are off and that will
prime the pump. I have a slight flooding problem in my hangar and HATE
having to tear the tail wheel apart to get any suspected water out of the
bearings so I started storing my plane with the tail wheel up on a stand. I
haven't had a single problem with oil pressure since I started doing that
(if the water gets up to the wheel bearings on the mains I REALLY get mad!).
It seems the 65 Cont really doesn't like being stored with the nose up.
Hank
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oil Pressure
>
>
> Pieters,
>
> My IP, TP and I went out this beautiful La afternoon to get a little dual
> time. Soon after he propped the A-65 : no oil pressure: I tapped on the
dial but
> still no movement. Sooooooooooooooooooo with cut it off, disconnected the
> pressure line at the f/w, put it in a jar, started the engine: no oil
running into
> the jar:
> I need some analyses. It has about 1 hour since oil change. Engine has not
> been run in over 2 months. Does it appear that the oil pump needs some
sort of
> priming like we used to have to do with the old water well pump down in
the
> country?
> I sure need some input on this problem.
> Thanks
>
> Corky and Edwin in beautiful 82 degree weather wanting to fly
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure |
Hank,
Thanks for the feedback. That makes this list worthwhile.
Funny, I keep 41CC on a tail stand so others in the hangar can walk without
stooping or bumping their heads. Tomorrow I'll try your remedy first before I
pull the screen and apply Walt's remedy.
Corky still in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
I had a conversation with Bud Smith recently. He's in Big Sandy, Texas and
has run an ad in the last three BPA Newsletters. He's found some sources of wire
wheels and he's making some hubs, using an abrasive water jet. That has less
adverse effect on 4130 than methods invvolving high temperatures. My
understanding is that he plans to make hubs available commercially.....Carl Vought
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure |
Corky,
I used to have a J-3 with the 65 Cont. engine and had the same problem from
time to time. I found that by raising the tail before start the oil pump would
prime and VIOLA!
I just had an oil temp/pressure problem with my Bonanza. Five years and 364
hours ago I had one of those high-dollar blueprinted overhauls done by Ultimate
Engines of Mena, Arkansas. Turns out a wrist pin had worn down, scored a
cylinder and piston and the oil screen was full of metal. The oil screen collapsed
and the engine is cantaminated with metal (both aluminum and ferrous metal).
Guess what? Ultimate says the warranty is no good. They advertise a 2,000 hour
TBO and 520 hours unlimited warranty but they say it's only good for one
year. Moral of the story? Avoid Ultimate Engines like the plague.
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure |
In a message dated 11/1/03 5:33:04 PM Central Standard Time,
hjarrett(at)hroads.net writes:
<< several guys on the Taylorcraft group said to have someone lift the tail
HIGH and pull the prop through several times >>
I've heard of this method before, here on the list.
I always pull 4 blades thru with the mags off, then 'Contact', and my A65
always takes at least 5 or 6 seconds of idling, before the gauge begins to read.
Is this normal ? It seams to me that the oil drains out of the pump
between engine runs, and takes time to pump back up. Every time I start the engine
and run around to the cockpit, I find myself thinking...c'm on...c'm on
oil...c'm on oil pressure...any time now...it just seems to take forever.
Chuck G.
hoping the front stays to the north of Wichita tomorrow.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure |
Isn't that another B Clinton sideline along with that Mena Medicine Importing
Co. from Columbia that the Clintons couldn't remember about. That is the
plague.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure |
That whole Mena operation is strange.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure |
Chuck,
I let it idle about 30 sec without any indication and was hesitant to run it
any longer. Tomorrow I'll try the tail high pull the prop thru method. If no
result I'll pull the plug and screen, fill it with oil and try again
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | No oil pressure after starting a small Continental engine... |
Corky,
The lack of oil pressure after starting is common with the small Continental
engines---especially when the engine has not been run for a while and the
ambient air temperature is high. Under these conditions the oil pump may
become dry and need priming. This can be done in two ways:
1. (already mentioned by several) With the propeller horizontal, lift the
tail
of your taildragger as high as you can and hold it there for at least
half a
minute. Lower the tail, start the engine and run at idle speed.. If no
oil
pressure is indicated within 30 seconds, stop the engine and go to
Method
#2 below.
2. Remove the oil temperature bulb from the oil screen and shoot clean
engine
oil into the oil screen with a squirt can. Be generous. Re-install the
tempera-
ture bulb and start the engine. I've been doing this for over 50 years
and it
has always worked for me.
The reason Method #1 works is that with a parked taildragger the oil screen
housing will hold a bit of residual oil. This oil will flow into the oil
screen and
hopefully prime the oil pump when the tail is lifted. A worn oil pump will
likely
need more prime than can be held in the oil screen housing and you will then
have to resort to Method #2.
Let us know if this works for you. Good luck.
Graham (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronnie Wagner" <wlrdlr(at)starband.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure |
Just seems like home to me,
Ronnie Wagner
----- Original Message -----
From: <TomTravis(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oil Pressure
>
> That whole Mena operation is strange.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure |
Corky,
Now that I hear it,,,the tail lift method should work fine. Guess the screen
cavity is so long that it keeps a bit of oil in it. guess the 65 comes with
a shot of prime oil supplied! Live and learn. Good idea!! Just because an
idea is 50 years old, doesn't mean we've heard of it.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oil Pressure
>
> Chuck,
>
> I let it idle about 30 sec without any indication and was hesitant to run
it
> any longer. Tomorrow I'll try the tail high pull the prop thru method. If
no
> result I'll pull the plug and screen, fill it with oil and try again
>
> Corky
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
There is an A/N surplus type store in Dallas that sells leather flying
helmets. It is located near Northcentral Exp and Arapaho. Would anyone know the
phone or mailing address? Thanks
Corky in La flying with a knit cap that blows off my head on take off.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "L&B hickman" <funflyer(at)wirefire.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Helmet |
There's a place called flight world on I4 going from Datona to
Orlando Fla. on my way to sun and fun.A DC9 sits along the highway as a
marker or maybe you can find it on the net.They sell leather helmets lined
for around 30.00
Linzy
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Bayesian.classifier.says.spam.probability.is.70.to.80@[score:0.7041]>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying Helmet
>
>
> Pieters,
>
> There is an A/N surplus type store in Dallas that sells leather flying
> helmets. It is located near Northcentral Exp and Arapaho. Would anyone
know the
> phone or mailing address? Thanks
>
> Corky in La flying with a knit cap that blows off my head on take off.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Hubs |
Barry, I would like to be added to the list of those wanting the wire wheel
plans.
Ken Conrad wizzard 187 @aol.com
thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <twinboom(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Helmet |
Corky and others,
This is an awesome site for all leather flying apparel. They have all original
cut jackets ect. Goggles too!!!!
http://www.flyingjacket.com/
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
Yucaipa California
www.inlandsloperebels.com
W.W. conversion manual, #3202 www.flycorvair.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 9:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying Helmet
Pieters,
There is an A/N surplus type store in Dallas that sells leather flying
helmets. It is located near Northcentral Exp and Arapaho. Would anyone know the
phone or mailing address? Thanks
Corky in La flying with a knit cap that blows off my head on take off.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Hubs |
I would like a copy of the info too. Maybe we should just post it.
Hank J
hjarrett(at)hroads.net
----- Original Message -----
From: <Wizzard187(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Hubs
>
> Barry, I would like to be added to the list of those wanting the wire
wheel
> plans.
> Ken Conrad wizzard 187 @aol.com
> thanks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Hubs |
I agree Hank. So it's now posted at:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Taxiway/TheHangar/photoAlbumManager.cfm?AlbumID=16
7
If that link fails (mine usually do....) try:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Taxiway/TheHangar/pictureGallery.cfm
If THAT fails, just go to mykitplane.com and view my photo albums.......
Thanks Barry!
Jim in Plano, where MY hubs are on the UPS truck ON THE WAY to Plano!!!
Buchanan's will have them in a week or so and I'll have them back and powder
coated (black) before I know it! WOOHOO!!!!
>
> I would like a copy of the info too. Maybe we should just post it.
> Hank J
> hjarrett(at)hroads.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
Pieters,
With all of the interest in using wire spoked wheels on the planes being built,
it should be remembered that the Henderson plans call for a straight spoke pattern.
The straight spoke pattern should be used for those planes NOT having brakes incorporated
in the final design. A cross spoke pattern is better able to handle
the rotational stress of brakes.
John Dilatush NX114D
Salida, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | At7000ft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Hubs |
Please add me to the list as well, thank you very much.
Rick Holland
at7000ft(at)aol.com
Barry, I would like to be added to the list of those wanting the wire wheel
plans.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Thanks Pieters,
Just pumped a little oil through the flexible oil pressure hose holding it
high. Started on the first pull. On idle throttle. Flew great in short sleeve La
weather. Bleed your yankee hearts out.
Corky in La flying in a T shirt on 2 Nov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Spoke Pattern was Wire Wheels |
Model A wheels & some rear bicycle wheels use a cross pattern on the brake
drum / drive side -- a radial (no cross) pattern on the opposite side. Also
they are usually offset or "dished" (rim isn't centered on the hub) toward
the cross pattern.
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheels
>
> Pieters,
>
> With all of the interest in using wire spoked wheels on the planes being
built, it should be remembered that the Henderson plans call for a straight
spoke pattern.
>
> The straight spoke pattern should be used for those planes NOT having
brakes incorporated in the final design. A cross spoke pattern is better
able to handle the rotational stress of brakes.
>
> John Dilatush NX114D
> Salida, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure |
Corky,
Great! Don't want to break your bubble , but up in NJ, yesterday was great
and today was greater!!! Very good shirt sleeve flying weather.
Tomorrows predictions are for 80' ish.
walt evans
NX140DL
PS A new seafood place just opened by me. HHHMMMMMM,,wonder if they have
Gumbo? ( Gumbo should be capitalized, shouldn't it?)
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oil Pressure
>
> Thanks Pieters,
>
> Just pumped a little oil through the flexible oil pressure hose holding it
> high. Started on the first pull. On idle throttle. Flew great in short
sleeve La
> weather. Bleed your yankee hearts out.
>
> Corky in La flying in a T shirt on 2 Nov
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure |
Gumbo should be eaten. To hell with capitalization.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
I've been asked about the cam clamp seen in some of my pics. Here it is at the
bottom of this page.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=27
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
Bud Smith knows what he is doing and is quite a resource. He has owned
numerous machining companies through the years but is now retired. Hs is a
real good guy. I spent lots of time with him last year at the SAA flyin at
Urbana. I think Dennis E., Skipp Gadd, and Larry Williams may have met him
as well.
He was also a session guitarist in southern CA back during the surf years
and has an extensive vintage guitar collection. We should try to get him to
next year's brodhead.
Chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: <Carbarvo(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire wheels
>
> I had a conversation with Bud Smith recently. He's in Big Sandy, Texas and
> has run an ad in the last three BPA Newsletters. He's found some sources
of wire
> wheels and he's making some hubs, using an abrasive water jet. That has
less
> adverse effect on 4130 than methods invvolving high temperatures. My
> understanding is that he plans to make hubs available
commercially.....Carl Vought
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Helmet |
corky,
send an email to jim markle. he lives right there.
jim.markle(at)primus.com
Or call my buddy, AA captian paul rosendahl. He lives right there. Just
tell him chris told you to call him.. 972 231 1112
chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Bayesian.classifier.says.spam.probability.is.70.to.80@[score:0.7041]>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying Helmet
>
>
> Pieters,
>
> There is an A/N surplus type store in Dallas that sells leather flying
> helmets. It is located near Northcentral Exp and Arapaho. Would anyone
know the
> phone or mailing address? Thanks
>
> Corky in La flying with a knit cap that blows off my head on take off.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Antonio A. Racioppi" <chopo(at)adinet.com.uy> |
Please add me to the list as well, thank you very much.
chopo(at)adinet.com.uy
Antonio Racioppi
-----Mensaje original-----
De: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]En nombre de
At7000ft(at)aol.com
Enviado el: domingo, 02 de noviembre de 2003 17:05
Para: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Asunto: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Hubs
Please add me to the list as well, thank you very much.
Rick Holland
at7000ft(at)aol.com
Barry, I would like to be added to the list of those wanting the wire wheel
plans.
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Drago Vejnovic <vejnovic(at)inecco.net> |
Dear Pieters,
I`m new at this list. I`m living in Bosnia(Europe) and I`m only one known
builder in this country. Excuse me for my bad english, engish is not my
native.
Few months ago I recived my set of plans and start building my aircamper.
I start colected materials. I find some woods, birch plywoods for
ribs,marine grade mahagony/poplar plywood for fuselage, engine(Subaru EA 82,
but I planing use EA81), weels(600X6) with brakes, instruments and some
turnbucles..
Also I find Loctie HYSOL epoxy 3421 glue (very strong:23N/mm2).
Expensive(cca 55$ per kilos(2-1/2 lb) but here avaliable.
I recived full size rib patterns and I check spars distance . I`s corect 27
3/4". I made rib jig and few ribs without doubt in ribs size. After
discussion at this list I check my ribs and find top line is corect, but
bottom is`nt. 1/2 where is 5/8". I`m stoped making ribs. I`ll be corected my
rib jig.
I`m made fuselage jig( short fuse) and prepare and splice longerons.
As hard find aircaft grade spruce I`m planing make I beam spars. I`ll use
white or european ash for upper and lower spar caps(8X25mm(.3X1")) as for
vertical web stiffener (8X13 mm(.3X1/2") and 8 mm marine grade plywood for
web.
I calculate 16-17kg(35-37lb) for all spars without fitings(steinless steel
AISI 316).
My friend (mechanic engineer) will be caculate stress analysis.
Does anybody have coments?
Thanks for help.
Drago Vejnovic
Vojvode Momcila 14
78000 Banja Luka
Bosnia and Herzegovina
vejnovic(at)inecco.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | my laminated tailspring cracked |
| From: | "Ken Chambers" <kchambers(at)winternals.com> |
Some of you might remember that I was experimenting with a laminated
poplar tail spring.
I finished it up last week (3 pieces of 3/4 x 2.5'' x 3' steamed, bent
and glued with t-88) and bolted it to my work table Saturday. I'm 180
pounds and I jumped up and down on it for a good two or three minutes
before I heard the crack.
My testing method may have been more at fault than the tail spring
itself. I bolted it so that 7 inches rested on the table. Naturally, it
cracked right at the sharp edge of the table. When mounted, there would
have been no sharp edge. It would have had 7 inches of flat mounting
space and then a gentle slope up to the tail post.
I didn't weigh it, but it was obviously quite light. And at 2.5' wide it
should have handled the side loads nicely.
If I get a chance, I'll make another and try to test it more
accurately.
Ken, killing time until I can move into my new house with a 2-car
garage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com> |
My grandmother passed down a flying helmet that was given to her from her instructor
in 1919. This helmet fits me better than any other I have tried on but
I hate to use it because of its sentimental value. I have found that the major
difference is that if you flatten it out on a table and look at the cutout for
the face, the forehead cut is 90 degrees to the side cut where most modern
helmets the angle is greater than 90 degrees (I guess so the helmet doesn't ride
down as far on ones forehead).
I came to learn that this old cut is apparently referred to as a "Scully" helmet
and an outfit right up the street from the Brodhead airport was able to recreate
one for me but that was years ago and the ravages of time have taken their
toll and that company no longer exists.
If, in shopping for helmets, someone comes across a source for these "Scully" helmets
I'd sure appreciate learning where they could be obtained.
Thanks,
Bill Sayre
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | vintage looking gauges |
Ted writes-
>Does anyone know where to find mechanical oil temp and pressure
>gauges with that Vintage or Classic look? I find lots of beautiful gauges
>that qualify but are electric.
I know what you mean. I, too, started that search and found a few, but not
as many as I'd like to make a set. My hope was that maybe one of the
manufacturers could custom-make them. Take a look at
http://www.classicinstruments.net and
http://www.bugsandbuggies.com/vdo_main.asp
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Cheer a special someone with a fun Halloween eCard from American Greetings!
Go to http://www.msn.americangreetings.com/index_msn.pd?source=msne134
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
He was real interesting to talk to. My understanding is that he builds
guitars and violins. Have I got that right? Also, he makes single-shot rifles.
He
sounds like my kinda guy!...Carl Vought
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: my laminated tailspring cracked |
Don't mean to butt in, but by jumping up and down on the skid, you applied
considerably more force than your body weight. It's hard for me to imagine
applying forces of that magnitude in a real-life situation. Carl V.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Helmet |
How about one mile south of Arapaho at Belt Line and Central Expressway?
Check out: http://www.afmo.com/product_page.asp?pid=353
Incredibly slow web site but this might be it.....
or
Armed Forces Merchandise Outlet
111 N. Central Expressway
Richardson, TX 75080
(800)282-3327
(972)235-9781
Jim in Plano (not far from there, so would be glad to drop in and check something
for you........)
-----Original Message-----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying Helmet
Pieters,
There is an A/N surplus type store in Dallas that sells leather flying
helmets. It is located near Northcentral Exp and Arapaho. Would anyone know the
phone or mailing address? Thanks
Corky in La flying with a knit cap that blows off my head on take off.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | At7000ft(at)aol.com |
Clif
I was admiring the work you have done looking at your mykitplane.com
images and was wondering if I can ask you a question. Your throttle quadrant is
a real work of art, how did you create the swirl pattern on the main plate? Is
the quadrant all aluminum? What is the top handle made of?
Thank You
Rick Holland
> I've been asked about the cam clamp seen in some of my
> pics. Here it is at the bottom of this page.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Helmet |
Thanks Jim,
I got that description from a WOMAN. It could be in Lake Cliff before it's
over. I'll give them a call and if I need your help I'll sure ask you.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | first passenger yesterday |
Yesterday, one day after doing my annual inspection on NX140DL, I took my first
passenger.
Was supposed to be my Mentor, but we couldn't get together cause of the short days.
Climbed a little slower, flew a little more stable.
Guess I was really paranoid on taking a second.
All went well.
Any other tips from you old timers on things to expect with someone in the front???
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ribs, spars... |
Welcome to the list,
This is the place for sharing ideas. My only suggestion is that ash might
be a bit heavy for the spars. People have used lots of diffrent woods other
than sitka. Do you have Douglas fir in your area?
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Drago Vejnovic" <vejnovic(at)inecco.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ribs, spars...
>
> Dear Pieters,
>
> I`m new at this list. I`m living in Bosnia(Europe) and I`m only one known
> builder in this country. Excuse me for my bad english, engish is not my
> native.
> Few months ago I recived my set of plans and start building my aircamper.
>
> I start colected materials. I find some woods, birch plywoods for
> ribs,marine grade mahagony/poplar plywood for fuselage, engine(Subaru EA
82,
> but I planing use EA81), weels(600X6) with brakes, instruments and some
> turnbucles..
> Also I find Loctie HYSOL epoxy 3421 glue (very strong:23N/mm2).
> Expensive(cca 55$ per kilos(2-1/2 lb) but here avaliable.
>
> I recived full size rib patterns and I check spars distance . I`s corect
27
> 3/4". I made rib jig and few ribs without doubt in ribs size. After
> discussion at this list I check my ribs and find top line is corect, but
> bottom is`nt. 1/2 where is 5/8". I`m stoped making ribs. I`ll be corected
my
> rib jig.
> I`m made fuselage jig( short fuse) and prepare and splice longerons.
> As hard find aircaft grade spruce I`m planing make I beam spars. I`ll use
> white or european ash for upper and lower spar caps(8X25mm(.3X1")) as for
> vertical web stiffener (8X13 mm(.3X1/2") and 8 mm marine grade plywood for
> web.
> I calculate 16-17kg(35-37lb) for all spars without fitings(steinless steel
> AISI 316).
> My friend (mechanic engineer) will be caculate stress analysis.
>
> Does anybody have coments?
> Thanks for help.
>
> Drago Vejnovic
>
> Vojvode Momcila 14
> 78000 Banja Luka
> Bosnia and Herzegovina
>
> vejnovic(at)inecco.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ribs, spars... |
In a message dated 11/3/03 5:55:41 AM Central Standard Time,
vejnovic(at)inecco.net writes:
<< Dear Pieters,
I`m new at this list. I`m living in Bosnia(Europe) and I`m only one known
builder in this country. Excuse me for my bad english, engish is not my
native.
Few months ago I recived my set of plans and start building my aircamper.
I start colected materials. I find some woods, birch plywoods for
ribs,marine grade mahagony/poplar plywood for fuselage, engine(Subaru EA 82,
but I planing use EA81), weels(600X6) with brakes, instruments and some
turnbucles..
Also I find Loctie HYSOL epoxy 3421 glue (very strong:23N/mm2).
Expensive(cca 55$ per kilos(2-1/2 lb) but here avaliable.
I recived full size rib patterns and I check spars distance . I`s corect 27
3/4". I made rib jig and few ribs without doubt in ribs size. After
discussion at this list I check my ribs and find top line is corect, but
bottom is`nt. 1/2 where is 5/8". I`m stoped making ribs. I`ll be corected my
rib jig.
I`m made fuselage jig( short fuse) and prepare and splice longerons.
As hard find aircaft grade spruce I`m planing make I beam spars. I`ll use
white or european ash for upper and lower spar caps(8X25mm(.3X1")) as for
vertical web stiffener (8X13 mm(.3X1/2") and 8 mm marine grade plywood for
web.
I calculate 16-17kg(35-37lb) for all spars without fitings(steinless steel
AISI 316).
My friend (mechanic engineer) will be caculate stress analysis.
Does anybody have coments?
Thanks for help.
Drago Vejnovic
Vojvode Momcila 14
78000 Banja Luka
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Drago,
Welcome to the list !!
It's great to see how the Pietenpol has become a world wide name. Don't
worry about your english...you are understood. There has been much discussion
about the construction of the ribs, and it is all readily available to you in the
list archives. Just scroll down on any e-mail, and you will see the web
address. As for the epoxy, most preferr T88. I use it exclusively. The Subaru
engine should be a good choice for you. In your location, I would guess it
would be more readily available to you, as opposed to the Continental A65, or the
Corvair engine. John Dilatush, a list member, has been flying behind a
Subaru for a long time, and I'm sure he could answer questions about this engine.
Questions to you:
Do you have the Aircraft Spruce Catalog ? Wicks Catalog ? These are a
couple of the many sources of materials, as well as other infomation, unique to
aircraft.
Consturction methods are covered in publications such as
AC 43.13-1A/2A Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices
and
Tony Bingelis Series of four books: 1- Sportplane Construction Techniques;
2- On Engines; 3- Firewall Forward; 4- The Sportplane Builder.
and
'32 Flying and Glider Magazines
- available to you thru the EAA
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Pietenpols Forever !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: first passenger yesterday |
In a message dated 11/3/03 4:55:22 PM Central Standard Time,
wbeevans(at)verizon.net writes:
<< Yesterday, one day after doing my annual inspection on NX140DL, I took my
first passenger.
Was supposed to be my Mentor, but we couldn't get together cause of the
short days.
Climbed a little slower, flew a little more stable.
Guess I was really paranoid on taking a second.
All went well.
Any other tips from you old timers on things to expect with someone in the
front???
walt evans
NX140DL >>
Walt,
Congrats on taking on a passenger !! It's a big responsability. I'm not
very experienced with taking on a passenger (I've had two different passengers
so
far), but I've got quite a few people looking forward to a ride. The low
climb rate reminds me of the ol' Model A days, last year. Just be sure to keep
your airspeed up. I haven't yet installed the front stick and rudder
pedals...I don't want to give 'em a chance to kill me !! It's quite a hoot, to
hear
their post flight report !! I've been doing extensive research on Pietenpol
Accidents, at the NTSB web site, and will post them when I have completed. It
will be of interest to most, as to the cause of the accidents. Most common
seem to be fuel exhaustion, and the typical stall spin accident.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Hi Rick,
Thank you. The swirl pattern is known as " engine turning "
Different guys have used different tools and mediums but
the most common now seems to be circles of scotchbrite
pads glued to the ends of dowels and the heads of bolts
and intake valves. All of the above are chucked in a drill
press. The archives has quite a list of messages on the
subject.
Good article in Custom Planes, Sept 2000.
It's all aluminum, 6061-T6 from the local hobby shop no less.
The handles are 1 3/8" brass knobs from Lee Valley tools
# 01W19.03. Check below
http://www.leevalley.com/home/main.asp?SID=&ccurrency=1
Go to Hardware, Knobs, Ball- in left column.
You might find the same in a local cabinet hardware shop.
Clif
>
> Clif
>
> I was admiring the work you have done looking at your mykitplane.com
> images and was wondering if I can ask you a question. Your throttle
quadrant is a real work of art, how did you create the swirl pattern on the
main plate? Is the quadrant all aluminum? What is the top handle made of?
>
> Thank You
>
> Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: ribs, spars... |
Hi Drago, Welcome to the list.
I'm chipping in my 2 cents worth regarding spar woods.
Ash is 50% heavier than spruce but only 25% stronger.
You will have some weight penalty. This might be over
come by judicous design using a ply web with a 45 ply
orientation but the use of a softwood( evergreen tree)
such as spruce,hemlock,fir,cedar would be better.
Good evergreen trees grow all over the world in moist
northerly areas. It's a matter of finding the technical info,
particularly compression strength, then the other
characteristics relative to spruce, for local woods. This
information is readily available for North American
species. Check with your Europian lumber industry.
They must have done laboratory testing on wood that
grows there. A possible source of info and maybe
suitable wood are ladder manufacturers. They require
the strongest and lightest woods. Any in Bosnia?
Also you have what are called "Illegal mills" in your
country. Small local ones that may custom cut what
you need.
Clif
>
> Dear Pieters,
>
> I`m new at this list. I`m living in Bosnia(Europe) and I`m only one known
> builder in this country. Excuse me for my bad english, engish is not my
> native.> I`m made fuselage jig( short fuse) and prepare and splice
longerons.
> As hard find aircaft grade spruce I`m planing make I beam spars. I`ll use
> white or european ash for upper and lower spar caps(8X25mm(.3X1")) as for
> vertical web stiffener (8X13 mm(.3X1/2") and 8 mm marine grade plywood for
> web.
> I calculate 16-17kg(35-37lb) for all spars without fitings(steinless steel
> AISI 316).
> My friend (mechanic engineer) will be caculate stress analysis.
>
> Does anybody have coments?
> Thanks for help.
>
> Drago Vejnovic
>
> Vojvode Momcila 14
> 78000 Banja Luka
> Bosnia and Herzegovina
>
> vejnovic(at)inecco.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: my laminated tailspring cracked |
| From: | "Ken Chambers" <kchambers(at)winternals.com> |
Hey Carl
Well, I didn't so much jump on it as grab hold of the end and put my
full weight on it. And then I bounced a little.
I've been anxious to get opinions from other builders about this
project. I noticed that one of the UK Aircamper builders jumped on his
tails pring and it broke. I think it was composite. But he weighed only
150.
I agree that it's probably more stress than it would have seen in real
life. Any other opinions out there? Did I stress this thing too much to
offer a realistic test?
Thanks
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: first passenger yesterday |
Chuck...You've hit a nerve with me. Your investigation of Pietenpol accidents
is extremely valuable to all of us. I am particularly interested in accidents
caused by the failure of wire wheels. Would you scribble my name down on an
old lunch meat wrapper so that when you get through with your research you
could let me know? I'd appreciate that very much...Carl Vought
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: my laminated tailspring cracked |
Ken
The crash load factor is 9 G's downward for certification of normal category airplanes.
The part must withstand that load without permanent deformation. If
the tail weighs 30 to 40 pounds, then the 9G load is 270 to 360 pounds. Designing
the part to withstand this would cover just about any hard landing you might
do, even if you hit tail first. When you jumped, do you think you exerted
twice or three times your body weight on the part? Hard to tell without measuring.
If you manage to build the airplane with a ighter tail weight, that would
help too.
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Divelbiss" <ddivelbiss(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol accident research |
Hello,
I have been lurking on this list for quite some time. Finally I have
something (of possible value) to contribute to the list. I do not recall
where I aquired the data, but it appears to be a fairly good sample of
pietenpol accidents. The file itself is a 53K text file, so I am somewhat
reluctant to post it as an email. What would be the best way to distribute
this to all who are interested?
Don Divelbiss (Aircamper: most ribs done, fuse in process)
Mt. Vernon, OH
Below are a couple of the entrys to give an idea what it contains.
AMTRPL AIRCAMPER NNUM: 1014B LOCATION: COLLINSVILLE , OK
DATE: 05/08/87 ACFT HRS: 80
YEAR OF MFG: 0 FATALS: 0 INJURIES:0
WX AND WIND: UNKNOWN DAY CLER G10 360/09
ENGINE:
PILOT: TOTAL HRS.: 1700 HRS IN MODEL: 50 LAST 90 DAYS: 10
CAUSES: POWER LEVER
TYPE EVENT: ENGINE MALFUNCTION DMG: MINOR
PHASE OF FLIGHT: FORCED LANDING
CATEGORY: IMPROPER MAINTENANCE
TYPE AIRCRAFT: MONOPLANE-HIGH/PARASOL WIN
REMARKS:
THE AIRCRAFT LANDED SHORT WHEN THE ENGINE FAILED
ON FINAL. THE THROTTLE IDLE ADJUSTMENT WAS
IMPROPERLY SET.
****************************************************************************
***
AMTRPL AIRCAMPER NNUM: 1371A LOCATION: ARLINGTON , TX
DATE: 07/26/87 ACFT HRS: 54
YEAR OF MFG: 0 FATALS: 0 INJURIES:0
WX AND WIND: UNKNOWN DAY SCAT 8 120/11
ENGINE: CONT A658
PILOT: TOTAL HRS.: 400 HRS IN MODEL: 3 LAST 90 DAYS: 3
CAUSES: IMPROP OPER BRAKE/FLT CLT GRN
OTHER/MISCELLANEOUS
TYPE EVENT: NOSE UP OR OVER DMG: SUBSTANTIAL
PHASE OF FLIGHT: LEVEL OFF TOUCHDOWN
CATEGORY: PILOT INDUCED
TYPE AIRCRAFT: MONOPLANE-HIGH/PARASOL WIN
REMARKS:
THE AIRCRAFT NOSED OVER ON LANDING.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | two people on board |
Way to go Walt and Chuck about sharing rides in your Piets. Summer days w/
full fuel are the WORST. Gotta work up in passenger wt. to see how much
fuel you can carry and still have enough umph to get over your trees or
wires. Even with a strong 65 hp the Piet wing is not 35 feet but 29 feet
long and works to get you in the air w/ a passenger sometimes.
Course your weight as pilot and the plane's empty wt. are huge factors as
well.
I like to lift off and then let the airspeed climb just a bit before trying
to climb with an adult passenger on warmer days. The airspeed can bleed
off in a hurry after your happy initial climb rate in or near ground
effect. Keep pushing the nose down to keep your speed up. I know that
sounds very simple but you have to do it on our draggy Piets somedays.
On final I like to ask my passengers to lean against the left or right side
of the cockpit to help my forward visibility in the flare. Not to scrunch
down, but just to press to one side. This really helps.
Mike C. where it's 79 and sunny in Cleveland........for now
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pietenpol accident research |
| From: | "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten(at)Governair.com> |
Don,
I would like to see the files, would you be able to zip the file, and upload it to a website like "www.Mykitplane.com" ? It's free to sign up and there are a bunch of Pietenpol entries to look at. There is a place for files on this site, and you can log your construction time here too. Check it out.
Kent Hallsten
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Divelbiss [mailto:ddivelbiss(at)hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 12:32 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol accident research
> pietenpol accidents. The file itself is a 53K text file, so
> I am somewhat
> reluctant to post it as an email. What would be the best way
> to distribute
> this to all who are interested?
>
> Don Divelbiss (Aircamper: most ribs done, fuse in process)
> Mt. Vernon, OH
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol accident research |
There's a "DATA" posting segment of the website "MyKitplane.com" It is free to
post such files. Many Piet members are already on that site.
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol accident research |
I would like to see them if you want to send them directly outside the list.
Barry
bed(at)mindspring.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol accident research
>
>
> There's a "DATA" posting segment of the website "MyKitplane.com" It is
free to post such files. Many Piet members are already on that site.
> Terry L. Bowden
> ph 254-715-4773
> fax 254-853-3805
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Nov. EAA Experimenter |
Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
I just got my Nov. Experimenter and whipped through it. More pictures of
Mike Cuy's Piet in the story on Brodhead. One picture shows the protective
leatherette 'bib' that Mike apparently added after many curious onlookers
leaned their arms over the airplane's turtledeck.
There are some pictures of a really nifty uncowled A-65 installation in a
Piet... it's remarkably clean looking considering the engine pretty much
hangs out there for all the world to see. And some pictures of that same
airplane's wheel streamline fairings (spoked wheels).
And last, but certainly not least (among the stuff that caught my eye) is a
really simple and nifty little "skate" that you sit your tailwheel into, for
jockeying the plane around in tight hangars. That is, if your tailwheel
isn't fully castoring. It's a simple little round disk of wood with a slot
in the top for the tailwheel, and a couple of castors on the bottom. Really
nifty. We should see if Mary Jones (or Bob Whittier) would let us scan and
post the image to the PhotoShare here.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I dont recall seeing past discussion on insurance rates for the Piet. I just got
a qoute from AOPA with a $14,000 value for $1550. Is this comparable to others?
AOPA says they have had very few quotes done for the Piet.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatthe1(at)rochester.rr.com> |
Dick,
I think that my last payment was about $650 for 12,000 hull on my
Taylorcraft. It was from AUA. They were the cheapest that I could find
when I bought the plane. THe rate did drop when I hit 100 time in
type. It was about $850 when I bought the plane with 70 hours in a Cessna 150.
Dave
At 09:39 PM 11/4/2003, Richard Navratil wrote:
>
>
>I dont recall seeing past discussion on insurance rates for the Piet. I
>just got a qoute from AOPA with a $14,000 value for $1550. Is this
>comparable to others? AOPA says they have had very few quotes done for
>the Piet.
>Dick N.
>
>
>---
>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <twinboom(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Helmet |
Hey gang,
I have been busy with the fire up here in Lake Arrowhead the last two weeks.
I work for the water department up there and have been working round the clock.
I think I responded to this, but have not been "astute" lately because of
work hours. Here is a link for jackets and helmets I found a few months back.
Check them out, very nice apparrel and quality as well.
Doug B.
http://www.flyingjacket.com/
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
Yucaipa California
www.inlandsloperebels.com
W.W. conversion manual, #3202 www.flycorvair.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Sayre, William G
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 9:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying Helmet
My grandmother passed down a flying helmet that was given to her from her instructor
in 1919. This helmet fits me better than any other I have tried on but
I hate to use it because of its sentimental value. I have found that the major
difference is that if you flatten it out on a table and look at the cutout
for the face, the forehead cut is 90 degrees to the side cut where most modern
helmets the angle is greater than 90 degrees (I guess so the helmet doesn't
ride down as far on ones forehead).
I came to learn that this old cut is apparently referred to as a "Scully" helmet
and an outfit right up the street from the Brodhead airport was able to recreate
one for me but that was years ago and the ravages of time have taken their
toll and that company no longer exists.
If, in shopping for helmets, someone comes across a source for these "Scully"
helmets I'd sure appreciate learning where they could be obtained.
Thanks,
Bill Sayre
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: ribs, spars... |
Having spent a few years in Europe, I would reccommend checking out the
Czech scene, no pun intended. The Czech republic seems to be producing
large numbers of beautiful homebuilts, they would definately have lots
of data. Also, most european gliders are wood, check out the spars for
a fournier RF5. There is also a UK Pietenpol website, great bunch of
guys, and many builders in continental europe subscribe as well. Best
of luck! Dave Rowe
Clif Dawson wrote:
>
>
> Hi Drago, Welcome to the list.
>
> I'm chipping in my 2 cents worth regarding spar woods.
>
> Ash is 50% heavier than spruce but only 25% stronger.
> You will have some weight penalty. This might be over
> come by judicous design using a ply web with a 45 ply
> orientation but the use of a softwood( evergreen tree)
> such as spruce,hemlock,fir,cedar would be better.
> Good evergreen trees grow all over the world in moist
> northerly areas. It's a matter of finding the technical info,
> particularly compression strength, then the other
> characteristics relative to spruce, for local woods. This
> information is readily available for North American
> species. Check with your Europian lumber industry.
> They must have done laboratory testing on wood that
> grows there. A possible source of info and maybe
> suitable wood are ladder manufacturers. They require
> the strongest and lightest woods. Any in Bosnia?
> Also you have what are called "Illegal mills" in your
> country. Small local ones that may custom cut what
> you need.
>
> Clif
>
> >
> > Dear Pieters,
> >
> > I`m new at this list. I`m living in Bosnia(Europe) and I`m only one known
> > builder in this country. Excuse me for my bad english, engish is not my
> > native.> I`m made fuselage jig( short fuse) and prepare and splice
> longerons.
> > As hard find aircaft grade spruce I`m planing make I beam spars. I`ll use
> > white or european ash for upper and lower spar caps(8X25mm(.3X1")) as for
> > vertical web stiffener (8X13 mm(.3X1/2") and 8 mm marine grade plywood for
> > web.
> > I calculate 16-17kg(35-37lb) for all spars without fitings(steinless steel
> > AISI 316).
> > My friend (mechanic engineer) will be caculate stress analysis.
> >
> > Does anybody have coments?
> > Thanks for help.
> >
> > Drago Vejnovic
> >
> > Vojvode Momcila 14
> > 78000 Banja Luka
> > Bosnia and Herzegovina
> >
> > vejnovic(at)inecco.net
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser - Wow, Have You Seen The Free Gifts? |
Dear Listers,
The List Fund Raiser is going well so far this year and I wanted to say
"Thank You" to everyone that has made a Contribution already this year!
Though the generous support of Andy Gold and the Builders Bookstore (
http://www.buildersbooks.com ), I'm able to offer some truly awesome gifts
with qualifying Contributions this year. There's quite a line up and a
rather diverse set of options - certainly something for every taste and
personality. Here's a list of this year's fine options:
* List Archive CD
* Aircraft Builder's Log
* Pilot Flashlight System
* Pro Pilot Logbook
* FAR/AIM on CD
* Jeppesen Flight Bag
* Aviation History Book
* Techstar Flight Computer
Please support your Email List Community AND pick up a really slick Gift at
the same time! The SSL Secure Contribution web site can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Once again, I would like to thank everyone that has so generously supported
the continued operation and upgrade of the Lists Services here on the
Matronics servers!!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FW: ribs, spars... |
| From: | Drago Vejnovic <vejnovic(at)inecco.net> |
Dear Pieters,
Thank you for welcoming!
here grows Bosnian Spruce (some kind of european (Norway) spruce). Best
parts of lumber is used for resonator in musical instruments. Identical
density as sitka but sitka is 20% stronger. Compressive strenght for
european spruce is 4350 psi(Source: MATWEB-material property data
http://www.matls.com/search/SearchSubcat.asp )I bought (after few months
searching) some woods in "Illegal mills", enough for ribs and
fuselage(spliced longerons).
Thanks to all,
Drago Vejnovic
Vojvode Momcila 14
78000 Banja Luka
Bosnia and Herzegovina
vejnovic(at)inecco.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: was insurance, now, flying with stones? |
Group,
I just spent (for the second time in 16 months) the nicest weekend we've
had in NE Ohio this Fall in the hospital being treated for a non-passing
kidney stone.
In addition to mundane issues like insuring my contraption, I was wondering
if any of you out there have had to deal with stones as an issue when
applying for your medical? With any luck, I'll be getting my student
pilot's ticket sometime later this year & so this will soon be an issue for
me.
I don't want to get into details of my medical history, but I'm beginning
to think that these things are going to be an ongoing problem - I can't
drink enough water (or pee enough, or change my diet enough) to keep stones
from forming. From what I've read, the FAA's 'minimum' standard for
issuing a medical to someone with a history of stones is demonstartion of
being 'stone free' at tyhe time of the application, but we all know what
they tend to think of 'minimums'.
It has always been my intention to get a regular ticket, but if the medical
issue becomes too big a hassle, I'll have to settle for Sport Pilot and
keep track of my own health - I get about a 2-week warning before one
becomes a major problem, but I suspect that's not going to good enough for
Uncle to issue me a medical without some high-octane medical backup from my
Doc.
Any comments?
Thanks!
Kip Gardner
(back to cold & rainy now that I'm home - figures)
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | At7000ft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: first passenger yesterday |
Congrats on your passenger flight Walt. And concerning flying our Pietenpols
with 2 fat guys (refering to myself of course, not you Walt), I am planning on
using a 110 HP Corvair in mine and I live in Colorado with airport density
altitudes up to 8000 ft. Do you guys think I would have enough power with this
setup? (I know 'enough power' can mean different things to different people, I
think enough would be at least a steady 400-500 fpm minimum).I know of one
Pietenpol here is Colorado with a turbo-ed Subaru which I believe does fine with
a passenger.
Rick Holland
Guess I was really paranoid on taking a second.
All went well.
Any other tips from you old timers on things to expect with someone in the
front???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | At7000ft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol accident research |
Please email me a copy of the file also if you would.
Rick Holland
at7000ft(at)aol.com
I would like to see them if you want to send them directly outside the list.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: was insurance, now, flying with stones? |
Kip,
i know all to well about the kidney stone issue. I had
to deal with that when i was in highschool, and the
next year or so after. I got denied my 3rd class
medical because of a stone, (i tried to lie about it
but they found blood in my urine) it took me about 2
years to finnaly get my medical. They did however
find out what my stones were...Cystine, and have been
on medicine ever since with out any trouble. Its been
about 5 years now and seem to have it licked, but
every time i go in for a faa phisical they ned a
K.U.B. X-ray to prove i'm still "stone free". My
advise would be to keep it quiet and see if they find
it, if not great, if so just keep trying they'll give
you a medical cert. even if it's special issuance. If
i can be of any other help let me know.
Shad Bell
getting close to cover dad's piet!!!
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | for some of the newer Pietenpol folks on the list |
Group-- as obvious as this sounds to most of us, one of the greatest
sources of Piet info on the web is still up and running and put into
service by former Piet news editor Grant MacLaren: Check this out if you
can--- loads and loads of info: http://users.aol.com/bpanews/www.html
PS- Grant is onto other things and does not update the web site or stay
active in the Piet movement very much anymore----but the work he's done in
the past is all there and extremely valuable if you click on all the nooks
and crannies of this huge, huge, Piet web site.
ALSO---- if you are looking for plans for the Pietenpol and additional
information, the Pietenpol Family Web site has that for you
here: http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol accident research |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
Don,
A search on the NTSB data base, on the string "Pietenpol" for reported
amateur-built airplanes accidents in G.A. since 1962 yields the
following 34. I suspect your file is somehow derived from this d.b.
Rep't
Type Date Probable
Cause Released Location Make / Model Regist.
Number Severity Type of Air Carrier Operation
and Carrier Name (Doing Business As)
Prel 8/3/03 Peru,
IN
Young Pietenpol Air Camper N81171 Fatal(1) Part 91: General
Aviation
Final 6/13/02 1/16/03
Bainbridge, GA Harrison Pietenpol Air Camper N7224X Fatal(1)
Part 91: General Aviation
Final 4/9/02 4/18/03
Rocky Comfort, MO Bozeman Pietenpol Aircamper N96EB Fatal(2)
Part 91: General Aviation
Final 5/16/01 2/5/02
Tulsa, OK Kirchner Pietenpol Aircamper N25157 Nonfatal
Part 91: General Aviation
Final 9/23/00 5/18/01
RAYMOND, WA Rowe PIETENPOL N5079R Nonfatal Part
91: General
Aviation
Final 8/27/00 10/23/01
ANDOVER, MN Widner PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER N89JW Nonfatal
Part 91: General Aviation
Final 4/23/00 5/17/01
BOONE, IA Cunningham PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER N899TC Nonfatal
Part 91: General Aviation
Final 7/28/99 6/22/00
OSHKOSH, WI Burns PIETENPOL AIR CAMPER N350MB Nonfatal
Part 91: General Aviation
Final 7/26/99 8/3/00
COLLINS, OH Troy PIETENPOL N6286A Nonfatal Part
91: General
Aviation
Final 12/2/98 2/22/01
ENGLAND, AR HOLIMAN PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER N396S Nonfatal
Part 91: General Aviation
Final 7/5/97 4/24/98
LAKE VILLAGE, IN Niquette PIETENPOL GN-1 N46844 Nonfatal
Part 91: General Aviation
Final 9/11/95 4/29/96
REDMOND, OR PIETENPOL AIR-CAMPER N18GH Nonfatal
Part 91:
General Aviation
Final 6/7/94 11/14/94
BLYTHE, CA HAYES/PIETENPOL AIR CAMPER N76TC Nonfatal
Part 91: General Aviation
Final 8/21/93 9/30/94
EATON RAPIDS, MI BRADFORD PIETENPOL SKYSCOUT N4301D Nonfatal
Part 91: General Aviation
Final 8/12/93 12/19/94
PONTIAC, MI R.D. BELL/PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER N194BB Nonfatal
Part 91: General Aviation
Final 8/6/83 SHELTON,
WA PIETONPOL-IMRIE AIRCAMPER CFACV Fatal(1) Part
91:
General Aviation
Final 8/17/81
BLAKESBURG, IA PIETENPOL AIRCMP N12939 Nonfatal
Part 91
General Aviation
Final 7/26/81 EMMA, MO
PIETENPOL A'CAMP N68064 Fatal(1) Part 91 General Aviation
Final 7/26/81 FRIDAY
HARBOR, WA PIETENPOL GN-2 N6210 Nonfatal Part 91
General
Aviation
Final 9/28/80 MARION,
IN PIETENPOL GN-1 N4933 Fatal(1) Part 91 General
Aviation
Final 9/6/80 PATTERSON,
LA
PIETENPOL AIRCMP N4272 Nonfatal Part 91 General Aviation
Final 9/21/79
MINNEAPOLIS, MN PIETENPOL AIRCMP N25157 Nonfatal
Part 91 General Aviation
Final 7/8/79 MESA, AZ
PIETENPOL AIRCAM N3586 Fatal(1) Part 91 General Aviation
Final 6/28/78 TACOMA,
WA PIETENPOL BOWERS N688Y Nonfatal Part 91 General
Aviation
Final 10/31/77
ALBUQUERQUE, NM PIETENPOL AIRCAM N83893 Nonfatal
Part 91 General Aviation
Final 8/6/77 MANKATO, MN
PIETENPOL-A SCOUT N5987 Nonfatal Part 91 General Aviation
Final 7/2/76 ALBANY, OR
PIETENPOL S.A.M. N5748 Nonfatal Part 91 General Aviation
Final 8/10/75
LATTASBURG, OH PIETENPOL GN-1 N3148 Nonfatal Part
91 General
Aviation
Final 10/23/73
LAKEWOOD, NJ PIETENPOL AIRCAM N5392 Nonfatal Part
91
General Aviation
Final 6/19/71
MENOMONEE FLS, WI PIETENPOL GN-1 N4705G Nonfatal
Part 91
General Aviation
Final 1/11/69
SPANAWAY, WA PIETENPOL PARASL N9258 Nonfatal Part
91
General Aviation
Final 3/23/68 WACO, TX
PIETENPOL CAMPER N3916 Nonfatal Part 91 General Aviation
Final 12/4/66
HOMESTEAD, FL PIETENPOL CAMPER N4632S Nonfatal
Part 91
General Aviation
Final 11/7/66
PLYMOUTH, MI PIETENPOL CAMPER N4062C Nonfatal Part
91
General Aviation
Sorry about the formatting but I put it in Courier New, 8 pt. in Rich
Text Format with the hopes that it would send OK. Any other approach
would require an attachment and take up too much space anyway. You can
check individual narratives by searching on the given tail numbers, and
they come back very quickly. The site is:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
Of course, having a ready-made file to search through is a lot easier.
A possibly disturbing although not necessarily meaningful observation is
that the last 3 in the d.b. are fatals, and you have to go back to 1983
to find any prior to that.
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
carrying 1 mil $ liability only on my Air Camper costs about $300/year and
I've switched to EAA's new carrier (since Avemco bailed
out) http://www.falconinsurance.com
Not sure what the additional hull insurance would be but I'd suspect for
about $800 or so you should be able to get liab. and hull to value at
around $15,000.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | At7000ft(at)aol.com |
Any idea what the cost would be for liablility only insurance for that?
I dont recall seeing past discussion on insurance rates for the Piet. I just
got a qoute from AOPA with a $14,000 value for $1550. Is this comparable to
others? AOPA says they have had very few quotes done for the Piet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Fisher <mfisher(at)gci.net> |
Dear seat of the pants flying enthusiasts,
A Ford powered Pietenpol is an American tradition - - a way for a scrappy maverick
to say: I am not dependent on Cessna/Raytheon/Lycoming/Continental. I have
a 1.9 liter engine from a 1993 Ford Escort. Everything about it says: Pietenpol
Scout. My plan is to invert the engine to get a low center of gravity with
high thrust line. This will require extensive modifications to the lubrication,
fuel, and cooling systems. A scavenge pump should not be necessary. Constant
flow, variable pressure, multi-port injection will deliver the fuel. The
propeller flange will be bolted to the crankshaft flange - - no belts or gears.
Extra pressure oil will be provided to the thrust bearing.
This installation should come in a bit lighter than the original Ford, while providing
perhaps 15% more thrust. Modern liquid cooled, fuel injected engines
can enable economy and range not attainable with air cooling. Thirty horsepower
applied to a long, slow turning Prop. should cruise a Scout at seventy MPH.
Fuel flow at this power setting will be less than 2.2 GPH A light wooden propeller
turning at about 2400 RPM will minimize precessive loads on the crankshaft.
Inverting an automobile engine for aircraft use is nothing new. Steve
Wittman did it years ago with a Tailwind.
Why am I doing this? In thirty five years of training pilots, I have observed
a severe deterioration in basic airmanship skills. The modern curriculum devotes
so much time to regulatory compliance and electronics that precious little
is left for stick and rudder. When experienced, role model pilots are seen
flying simple, basic airplanes with skill and gusto, a valuable message is sent
out: "I can do this too." is the thought which has inspired many great careers.
I am interested in a plans-built Pietenpol Scout, firewall back, as a test bed
for my engine. Some damage would be acceptable.
Happy landings, Mike Fisher
P. O. Box 347
Talkeetna, Alaska 99676
(907) 733-2356
Alternate e-mail: michaeljpoisson(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Insurance
===============================
Mike and other Pieters,
I have tried several times to get insurance on my Piet and if not been
outright refused, ignored.
The excuse is that since the plane is powered with an auto engine, the
companies don't want to touch it!
Are there any owners out there with converted auto engines that have been
able to get insurance? I would sure like to hear from you!
John
================================
>
> carrying 1 mil $ liability only on my Air Camper costs about $300/year
and
> I've switched to EAA's new carrier (since Avemco bailed
> out) http://www.falconinsurance.com
>
> Not sure what the additional hull insurance would be but I'd suspect for
> about $800 or so you should be able to get liab. and hull to value at
> around $15,000.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
I was thumbing through all my old BPANewsletters and what really stood out was
how many projects were reported as "almost finished", "ready for covering" or
other statements indicating that another Pietenpol was about ready to take to
the air. The thing that kept me poring over the later newsletters and my recent
recollections was how almost NONE of them were ever heard from again.
I'm at a loss to know why the sky isn't darkened with Piets! If the projects were
as far along as they stated, finishing them would seem highly likely. If they
thought enough to keep GEM updated on their progress, they would surely have
written in with all the details on their first flights and maybe even shown
up at B'head or OSH.
Do we have squadrons of Piets (and all the other homebuilt types) hiding in basements,
hangars and garages across the country? Where are they and why don't we
hear about them?
Larry
ps. had a 2 hr flight with TP drops Monday morning in perfectly blue skies, no
wind and 70 degrees. I had just put in the Prestone anti-freeze for the winter
and had to check the system for leaks
Anyone have info on skis?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Some of us are just slow.
Jack Phillips
Nearly 8 years into NX899JP, which got the last piece of fabric glued on
last night
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LAWRENCE
WILLIAMS
Subject: Pietenpol-List: projects
I was thumbing through all my old BPANewsletters and what really stood out
was how many projects were reported as "almost finished", "ready for
covering" or other statements indicating that another Pietenpol was about
ready to take to the air. The thing that kept me poring over the later
newsletters and my recent recollections was how almost NONE of them were
ever heard from again.
I'm at a loss to know why the sky isn't darkened with Piets! If the projects
were as far along as they stated, finishing them would seem highly likely.
If they thought enough to keep GEM updated on their progress, they would
surely have written in with all the details on their first flights and maybe
even shown up at B'head or OSH.
Do we have squadrons of Piets (and all the other homebuilt types) hiding in
basements, hangars and garages across the country? Where are they and why
don't we hear about them?
Larry
ps. had a 2 hr flight with TP drops Monday morning in perfectly blue skies,
no wind and 70 degrees. I had just put in the Prestone anti-freeze for the
winter and had to check the system for leaks
Anyone have info on skis?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> |
I don't suppose you would ship it up here, I'd be glad to test it for a
few years, and I won't charge a penny! Best of luck, keep us informed.
Michael Fisher wrote:
>
>
> Dear seat of the pants flying enthusiasts,
>
> A Ford powered Pietenpol is an American tradition - - a way for a scrappy maverick
to say: I am not dependent on Cessna/Raytheon/Lycoming/Continental. I have
a 1.9 liter engine from a 1993 Ford Escort. Everything about it says: Pietenpol
Scout. My plan is to invert the engine to get a low center of gravity
with high thrust line. This will require extensive modifications to the lubrication,
fuel, and cooling systems. A scavenge pump should not be necessary.
Constant flow, variable pressure, multi-port injection will deliver the fuel.
The propeller flange will be bolted to the crankshaft flange - - no belts or
gears. Extra pressure oil will be provided to the thrust bearing.
>
> This installation should come in a bit lighter than the original Ford, while
providing perhaps 15% more thrust. Modern liquid cooled, fuel injected engines
can enable economy and range not attainable with air cooling. Thirty horsepower
applied to a long, slow turning Prop. should cruise a Scout at seventy MPH.
Fuel flow at this power setting will be less than 2.2 GPH A light wooden
propeller turning at about 2400 RPM will minimize precessive loads on the crankshaft.
Inverting an automobile engine for aircraft use is nothing new. Steve
Wittman did it years ago with a Tailwind.
>
> Why am I doing this? In thirty five years of training pilots, I have observed
a severe deterioration in basic airmanship skills. The modern curriculum devotes
so much time to regulatory compliance and electronics that precious little
is left for stick and rudder. When experienced, role model pilots are seen
flying simple, basic airplanes with skill and gusto, a valuable message is sent
out: "I can do this too." is the thought which has inspired many great careers.
>
> I am interested in a plans-built Pietenpol Scout, firewall back, as a test bed
for my engine. Some damage would be acceptable.
>
> Happy landings, Mike Fisher
> P. O. Box 347
> Talkeetna, Alaska 99676
> (907) 733-2356
> Alternate e-mail: michaeljpoisson(at)yahoo.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> |
I would just like to throw something out for all to ponder, and give me
your feedback. Currently, Sitka Spruce seems to be the choice of
aircraft builders. The first aircraft I am building right now, the
Santa Anna, by Paul Ralph of Victoria BC (tiswildeair.com), was designed
specifically with Yellow Cedar in mind. For those not from the Pacific
Northwest, Yellow Cedar is indiginous to this coast, and was originally
incidentally harvested with red cedar, and often discarded. Our
Japanese friends discovered its potential however, and have been buying
huge quantities, forcing mills here to start reclaiming Yellow Cedar
from the woods, lakes etc. It has never been replanted, as it's slow
growth doesn't make it as profitable as other species. Property wise,
it's slightly heavier than Sitka Spruce, but stronger, more flexible,
and is extrememly rot-resistant and bugs HATE IT!!
In discussions with others, I've heard of Douglas Fir (YUK), and Hemlock
being used as well. I use Hemlock myself for gunwhales for cedar-strip
canoes and kayaks that I build, and I do like it. You can see photos of
the two planes I am building at mykitplanes.com, to get an idea of what
Yellow Cdear looks like. So here it is. Why aren't more people looking
at Yellow Cedar? Currently in Victoria, Sitka Spruce, select but not
graded, is about $8-10 per board foot. Premium Yellow Cedar, I'm
talking crystal clear, perfectly straight grained stuff, in anywhere
from 2X4 to 4X12 dimensions, and up to 20' lengths, I can get for $3.00
per board foot. I actually purchased a truckload of off-cuts from a
local mill for $25.00, all of it was less than 3/4" thick, up to 12"
wide, and 11' long! After planing, thinking I would make it into 1/4 X
3/4 strips for canoes, I was startled to find that about 80% of it was
suitable for aircraft! All of my Pietenpol wing ribs and tail section
are made from it, and I laminated up pieces for fuselage cross-braces as
well. Please tell me what you think.
Also, if you are looking for perfect wing rib material, I cut way more
than I need, I can probably supply enough for a couple of wings worth
from what I have cut right now, and I still have quite a bit that I
haven't even cut yet. I would have to check with Customs to see about
sending any south of the border, but I can't see it being a problem. If
you're looking for spar or fuselage longeron pieces, I could check into
it, but shipping may be a problem. This is not intended as a business,
I'm full time Airforce (Sea King Helicopters, hence my love of flying
antiques) and would only charge what it cost to purchase the wood, and
ship it, and a dollar or two for the saw blade fund. My planer is in
for servicing at the moment, but once it's back safe and sound I can
provide planed 4 sides in any dimensions. Again, please fire away with
your thoughts, crticisms, etc. Thanks, Dave Rowe, Victoria, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
John
Are you an EAA or AOPA member? It may make a difference.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Insurance
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Insurance
> ===============================
> Mike and other Pieters,
>
> I have tried several times to get insurance on my Piet and if not been
> outright refused, ignored.
>
> The excuse is that since the plane is powered with an auto engine, the
> companies don't want to touch it!
>
> Are there any owners out there with converted auto engines that have been
> able to get insurance? I would sure like to hear from you!
>
> John
> ================================
>
>
>
> >
> > carrying 1 mil $ liability only on my Air Camper costs about $300/year
> and
> > I've switched to EAA's new carrier (since Avemco bailed
> > out) http://www.falconinsurance.com
> >
> > Not sure what the additional hull insurance would be but I'd suspect for
> > about $800 or so you should be able to get liab. and hull to value at
> > around $15,000.
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
I don't believe hull valuation figures into liability. Call them back and
get a liability-only quote.
Jim Ash
>
>Any idea what the cost would be for liablility only insurance for that?
>I dont recall seeing past discussion on insurance rates for the Piet. I just
>got a qoute from AOPA with a $14,000 value for $1550. Is this comparable to
>others? AOPA says they have had very few quotes done for the Piet.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Accident reports |
In a message dated 11/4/03 11:20:21 AM Central Standard Time,
Carbarvo(at)aol.com writes:
<< Chuck...You've hit a nerve with me. Your investigation of Pietenpol
accidents
is extremely valuable to all of us. I am particularly interested in
accidents
caused by the failure of wire wheels. Would you scribble my name down on an
old lunch meat wrapper so that when you get through with your research you
could let me know? I'd appreciate that very much...Carl Vought >>
Carl,
The FAA / NTSB require a report to be filed when extensive damage has
occured, or an injury has occured. The failure of a wire wheel / ground loop,
probably wouldn't end up being reported. I'm sure there are plenty of incidents,
even off field landings, that are not reported. However, I'll be sure to send
you my report when I get it done. I've had to scroll through the NTSB file,
month by month, because I couldn't get the site to bring anything up when I
tried to use 'Pietenpol' as the key word. Very time consuming.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: first passenger yesterday |
In a message dated 11/5/03 9:02:52 AM Central Standard Time, At7000ft(at)aol.com
writes:
<< (I know 'enough power' can mean different things to different people, I
think enough would be at least a steady 400-500 fpm minimum) >>
Rick,
I'm lucky to get that much solo, with a fresh Continental A65, and a density
altitude of less than 3000'.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
>
>I would just like to throw something out for all to ponder, and give me
>your feedback. Currently, Sitka Spruce seems to be the choice of
>aircraft builders. The first aircraft I am building right now, the
>Santa Anna, by Paul Ralph of Victoria BC (tiswildeair.com), was designed
>specifically with Yellow Cedar in mind. For those not from the Pacific
>Northwest, Yellow Cedar is indiginous to this coast, and was originally
>incidentally harvested with red cedar, and often discarded. Our
>Japanese friends discovered its potential however, and have been buying
>huge quantities, forcing mills here to start reclaiming Yellow Cedar
>from the woods, lakes etc. It has never been replanted, as it's slow
>growth doesn't make it as profitable as other species. Property wise,
>it's slightly heavier than Sitka Spruce, but stronger, more flexible,
>and is extrememly rot-resistant and bugs HATE IT!!
>
>In discussions with others, I've heard of Douglas Fir (YUK), and Hemlock
>being used as well. I use Hemlock myself for gunwhales for cedar-strip
>canoes and kayaks that I build, and I do like it. You can see photos of
>the two planes I am building at mykitplanes.com, to get an idea of what
>Yellow Cdear looks like. So here it is. Why aren't more people looking
>at Yellow Cedar? Currently in Victoria, Sitka Spruce, select but not
>graded, is about $8-10 per board foot. Premium Yellow Cedar, I'm
>talking crystal clear, perfectly straight grained stuff, in anywhere
>from 2X4 to 4X12 dimensions, and up to 20' lengths, I can get for $3.00
>per board foot. I actually purchased a truckload of off-cuts from a
>local mill for $25.00, all of it was less than 3/4" thick, up to 12"
>wide, and 11' long! After planing, thinking I would make it into 1/4 X
>3/4 strips for canoes, I was startled to find that about 80% of it was
>suitable for aircraft! All of my Pietenpol wing ribs and tail section
>are made from it, and I laminated up pieces for fuselage cross-braces as
>well. Please tell me what you think.
>
>Also, if you are looking for perfect wing rib material, I cut way more
>than I need, I can probably supply enough for a couple of wings worth
>from what I have cut right now, and I still have quite a bit that I
>haven't even cut yet. I would have to check with Customs to see about
>sending any south of the border, but I can't see it being a problem. If
>you're looking for spar or fuselage longeron pieces, I could check into
>it, but shipping may be a problem. This is not intended as a business,
>I'm full time Airforce (Sea King Helicopters, hence my love of flying
>antiques) and would only charge what it cost to purchase the wood, and
>ship it, and a dollar or two for the saw blade fund. My planer is in
>for servicing at the moment, but once it's back safe and sound I can
>provide planed 4 sides in any dimensions. Again, please fire away with
>your thoughts, crticisms, etc. Thanks, Dave Rowe, Victoria, BC
Dave,
I have several references that suggest Port Orford Cedar (C. lawsoniana)
and Alaska Yellow Cedar (C. nootkatensis) are suitable aircraft woods, but
at the time(s) of their publication indicated that they might be hard to
find due to market & logging practice considerations. I assume you are
speaking about one of these? I could be very interested in spar material,
and maybe some 1x1 for general usage.
Can you give us a few more details in the context of the specifications
(rings per inch, pitch pockets, grain slope, etc.) for aircraft grade wood?
Back when I lived in coastal VA, I spent a year doing biological survey
work in the coastal swamps. Down there, they have remnant populations of
another related species, Atlantic White Cedar. This stuff was highly sought
for boat building back at the turn of the 20th century. It's real pretty &
I always thought it had potential as aircraft wood. But most of the stands
were cut for shipbuilding & it requires very specific fire conditions to
reseed a stand, so it's largely a lost resource. We used to come across
12-18 inch logs that had been down, in swamp muck, for 50 or 60 years and
were still intact - decay resistant for sure!
Your stuff sounds like it might be a really good alternative. Thanks for
bringing it up.
Cheers,
Kip Gardner
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Accident reports |
I think all of us would greatly benefit from this, if you require any
assistance, I'm sure we can lend a hand. Understanding accident
patterns is critical to avoiding past mistakes, we in the airforce have
a flight safety program because of this.
Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 11/4/03 11:20:21 AM Central Standard Time,
> Carbarvo(at)aol.com writes:
>
> << Chuck...You've hit a nerve with me. Your investigation of Pietenpol
> accidents
> is extremely valuable to all of us. I am particularly interested in
> accidents
> caused by the failure of wire wheels. Would you scribble my name down on an
> old lunch meat wrapper so that when you get through with your research you
> could let me know? I'd appreciate that very much...Carl Vought >>
>
> Carl,
> The FAA / NTSB require a report to be filed when extensive damage has
> occured, or an injury has occured. The failure of a wire wheel / ground loop,
> probably wouldn't end up being reported. I'm sure there are plenty of incidents,
> even off field landings, that are not reported. However, I'll be sure to send
> you my report when I get it done. I've had to scroll through the NTSB file,
> month by month, because I couldn't get the site to bring anything up when I
> tried to use 'Pietenpol' as the key word. Very time consuming.
>
> Chuck G.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Hello, and a few questions |
Hello everyone,
Guess I should introduce myself since I'm new to the list. My name is Mike
Whaley, I live in Melbourne FL, and I'm planning on building a Pietenpol Air
Camper with a Corvair engine using William Wynne's conversion manual. It
might also have a slightly-expanded cockpit (I'm tall enough that I had
difficulty getting my legs under the panel in the standard-sized one I tried
on at Sun N Fun, and later I heard a story at the forum about what happens
when you don't build a cockpit mockup before building the plane!) I'm not a
pilot (yet) and am at the stage of collecting articles as fast as I can find
them. I do have Mike Cuy's great video, very inspiring! Should have the
plans pretty soon and hope to start building after we settle into a new
house soon. My aviation experience so far comes from a lifelong interest in
R/C and free-flight models, and just finding ways to be around aircraft as
much as possible. I'm currently employed as Steen Aero Lab's webmaster (we
sell the Skybolt, Pitts S1/Model 14, Knight Twister, Great Lakes, Brunton's
flying wires, and Hoffmann props among other things) and I'm also a founding
member and webmaster for the OV-10 Bronco Association. I've always followed
homebuilt planes closely, and the Piet seems to be a great combination of
ease of construction, good support, low cost, and practicality. Not to
mention the fun factor seems way, way up there. Around the time I met
William Wynne, I realized that a Corvair-powered Piet was just the kind of
plane I had been looking for, and I wouldn't need to worry about not being
able to find good help when the inevitable problems arose in something.
I do have a couple of questions for which I couldn't find answers in the
archives... guess I'll ask all you experts out there. :)
How feasible would it be to build a Piet in a one-car garage? My wife and I
are looking to buy a house, hopefully we can find a 2-car garage but so far
it's been slim pickin's on that front. I know that folks have managed to
build airplanes inside porta-johns and jail cells and the like... and
obviously the more room you have, the better... but what advice do you folks
have on building in a not-too-large space? I suspect in this situation one
should build the flattest parts first so they can be stored elsewhere.
Secondly, I'm trying to collect info on the feasability of obtaining my
sport pilot license in a (my) Piet. Has anyone out there actually learned to
fly in a Pietenpol? Again, I know that it is theoretically possible, but
would like to gather opinions on the idea from those who have either done
it, tried it, or who can offer supportable reasons not to try it.
Finally, has anyone devised a way to fold the wings on a regular basis for
transport? Hangar space here is scarce, and it certainly ain't cheap!
Thanks, and sorry for the basic questions I'm sure many of you have heard
before.
-Mike
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Alaska yellow is the same wood. Port Orford cedar
is very limited in its growing area but is the strongest
of the three( spruce, Alaska, PO. )
In the chart I've got, one of the US Forest Service lab's
research documents, the woods are tested at 12%
moisture so at 6% they are even stronger.
Spruce-compression-4500 lb/sq in.
Yellow- " " -5210 " "
Orford- " " -5890 " "
Other strength factors have the same relationship.
Spruce and yellow are listed at31 lb/cube foot, PO is 29
The only possible negative is that yellow cedar is a little
less crush resistant. Easily compensated for.
VERY nice to work with. Doug Fir is a real pain. Since the
hardness varies so greatly between the winter and summer
rings, it's difficult to drill a hole exactly were you want it.
Not so with the cedars. Also doug fir splits at the slightest
wim. It's not even a true fir.
Pitch pockets can turn up ( and will ) at any place without
any warning at all in doug. This is not a concern in the others.
Or in true firs for that matter. There can be unknown pitch
pockets in your 3/4" spars ( unless you X-ray them.)
Clif
>
> >
> >I would just like to throw something out for all to ponder, and give me
> >your feedback. Currently, Sitka Spruce seems to be the choice of
> >aircraft builders. The first aircraft I am building right now, the
> >Santa Anna, by Paul Ralph of Victoria BC (tiswildeair.com), was designed
> >specifically with Yellow Cedar in mind.
> >In discussions with others, I've heard of Douglas Fir (YUK), and Hemlock
> >being used as well. I use Hemlock myself for gunwhales for cedar-strip
> >canoes and kayaks that I build, and I do like it. You can see photos of
> >the two planes I am building at mykitplanes.com, to get an idea of what
> >Yellow Cdear looks like. > >
> >your thoughts, crticisms, etc. Thanks, Dave Rowe, Victoria, BC
>
> Dave,
>
> I have several references that suggest Port Orford Cedar (C. lawsoniana)
> and Alaska Yellow Cedar (C. nootkatensis) are suitable aircraft woods, but
> at the time(s) of their publication indicated that they might be hard to
> find due to market & logging practice considerations. I assume you are
> speaking about one of these? I could be very interested in spar material,
> and maybe some 1x1 for general usage.
>
> Can you give us a few more details in the context of the specifications
> (rings per inch, pitch pockets, grain slope, etc.) for aircraft grade
wood?
> >
> Your stuff sounds like it might be a really good alternative. Thanks for
> bringing it up.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> North Canton, OH
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: ribs, spars... |
I think you have a couple of choices in using this then.
You could use it in appropriate dimensions as cap
material with the ply web.
You could make the traditional 1" wide spars and
rout them as per the plans. The strength should be
comparable to the newer 3/4" spars.
What do the rest of you think?
Clif
>
>
> Dear Pieters,
>
> Thank you for welcoming!
>
> here grows Bosnian Spruce (some kind of european (Norway) spruce). Best
> parts of lumber is used for resonator in musical instruments. Identical
> density as sitka but sitka is 20% stronger. Compressive strenght for
> european spruce is 4350 psi(Source: MATWEB-material property data
> http://www.matls.com/search/SearchSubcat.asp )I bought (after few months
> searching) some woods in "Illegal mills", enough for ribs and
> fuselage(spliced longerons).
>
> Thanks to all,
>
> Drago Vejnovic
>
> Vojvode Momcila 14
> 78000 Banja Luka
> Bosnia and Herzegovina
>
> vejnovic(at)inecco.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Hello, and a few questions |
Welcome to the group, I'm building two planes in a double car garage, so
one in one should work fine, I think the key is being neat and organized
(I'm neither). The wing ribs are a great place to start, and can hang
from the wall when done, so can the tail feathers. If you do one wing
section at a time, then hang them, followed by the fuse last? Should
work out. The folding wing thing is one of the FAQs on the Pietenpol
Association site, doesen't sound too positive about that, but the outer
sections are pretty light, not too difficult to place them beside the
fuse on a wider flatbed, also have seen them in the box of a truck.
Your RC/free flight building experience will really help, the Pietenpol
is a really big telemaster, or guillow's kit, only much easier to work
with. Of course you want to build the best aircraft possible, but the
nice thing to think of when you go from models to full scale is this:
On a peanut scale, if one wing were built 1/4" longer than the other,
you'd be in big trouble. on a Piet, you'd never notice. Best of luck,
unfortunately have no idea about US regs, someone else can tackle that
one. Dave Rowe
Mike Whaley wrote:
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> Guess I should introduce myself since I'm new to the list. My name is Mike
> Whaley, I live in Melbourne FL, and I'm planning on building a Pietenpol Air
> Camper with a Corvair engine using William Wynne's conversion manual. It
> might also have a slightly-expanded cockpit (I'm tall enough that I had
> difficulty getting my legs under the panel in the standard-sized one I tried
> on at Sun N Fun, and later I heard a story at the forum about what happens
> when you don't build a cockpit mockup before building the plane!) I'm not a
> pilot (yet) and am at the stage of collecting articles as fast as I can find
> them. I do have Mike Cuy's great video, very inspiring! Should have the
> plans pretty soon and hope to start building after we settle into a new
> house soon. My aviation experience so far comes from a lifelong interest in
> R/C and free-flight models, and just finding ways to be around aircraft as
> much as possible. I'm currently employed as Steen Aero Lab's webmaster (we
> sell the Skybolt, Pitts S1/Model 14, Knight Twister, Great Lakes, Brunton's
> flying wires, and Hoffmann props among other things) and I'm also a founding
> member and webmaster for the OV-10 Bronco Association. I've always followed
> homebuilt planes closely, and the Piet seems to be a great combination of
> ease of construction, good support, low cost, and practicality. Not to
> mention the fun factor seems way, way up there. Around the time I met
> William Wynne, I realized that a Corvair-powered Piet was just the kind of
> plane I had been looking for, and I wouldn't need to worry about not being
> able to find good help when the inevitable problems arose in something.
>
> I do have a couple of questions for which I couldn't find answers in the
> archives... guess I'll ask all you experts out there. :)
>
> How feasible would it be to build a Piet in a one-car garage? My wife and I
> are looking to buy a house, hopefully we can find a 2-car garage but so far
> it's been slim pickin's on that front. I know that folks have managed to
> build airplanes inside porta-johns and jail cells and the like... and
> obviously the more room you have, the better... but what advice do you folks
> have on building in a not-too-large space? I suspect in this situation one
> should build the flattest parts first so they can be stored elsewhere.
>
> Secondly, I'm trying to collect info on the feasability of obtaining my
> sport pilot license in a (my) Piet. Has anyone out there actually learned to
> fly in a Pietenpol? Again, I know that it is theoretically possible, but
> would like to gather opinions on the idea from those who have either done
> it, tried it, or who can offer supportable reasons not to try it.
>
> Finally, has anyone devised a way to fold the wings on a regular basis for
> transport? Hangar space here is scarce, and it certainly ain't cheap!
>
> Thanks, and sorry for the basic questions I'm sure many of you have heard
> before.
>
> -Mike
>
> Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
> Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
> http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Hello, and a few questions |
Mike,
Welcome to the list.
Jim Wills (1 Humber Road, Blackheath, London SE3 7LT, UK) produces a set of
UK PFA approved plans of the Piet including a three piece wing with an
aileron quick connect system. The quick connect consists of a metal plate in
the center section and a matching plate in the wing section (times two for
port & starboard). When the wings are put on the center section these plates
match up with close tolerance. The control cables from the alieron control
horn on the cockpit torque tube attach to the center section plate. The
control cables from the aileron horn on the wing sections attach to the
plate at the butt rib end of the wing. The control cables are all pre
adjusted and its just a matter of butting the wing sections to the center
section, connecting the struts and jury struts and away you fly. It is meant
to take about half an hour to setup. There are also fittings that allow the
Piet to be trailered on the main wheels using the tail wheel as a tow hitch.
The wings stow along the fuselage. There are some modifications to the butt
ribs which I have incorporated in my ribs. I am still not sure whether I
shall use the quick connect system. Additional weight of the steel in the
butt ribs and additional complexity for the half hour setup time may not be
needed if I hanger the aircaft somewhere, which is what I am hoping to do.
Hope that helps, you've picked a good airplane and a very knowlegeable group
of guys, I am learning heaps.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi, Australia
http://cpc-world.cable.nu
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Whaley
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hello, and a few questions
-->
Hello everyone,
Guess I should introduce myself since I'm new to the list. My name is Mike
Whaley, I live in Melbourne FL, and I'm planning on building a Pietenpol Air
Camper with a Corvair engine using William Wynne's conversion manual. It
might also have a slightly-expanded cockpit (I'm tall enough that I had
difficulty getting my legs under the panel in the standard-sized one I tried
on at Sun N Fun, and later I heard a story at the forum about what happens
when you don't build a cockpit mockup before building the plane!) I'm not a
pilot (yet) and am at the stage of collecting articles as fast as I can find
them. I do have Mike Cuy's great video, very inspiring! Should have the
plans pretty soon and hope to start building after we settle into a new
house soon. My aviation experience so far comes from a lifelong interest in
R/C and free-flight models, and just finding ways to be around aircraft as
much as possible. I'm currently employed as Steen Aero Lab's webmaster (we
sell the Skybolt, Pitts S1/Model 14, Knight Twister, Great Lakes, Brunton's
flying wires, and Hoffmann props among other things) and I'm also a founding
member and webmaster for the OV-10 Bronco Association. I've always followed
homebuilt planes closely, and the Piet seems to be a great combination of
ease of construction, good support, low cost, and practicality. Not to
mention the fun factor seems way, way up there. Around the time I met
William Wynne, I realized that a Corvair-powered Piet was just the kind of
plane I had been looking for, and I wouldn't need to worry about not being
able to find good help when the inevitable problems arose in something.
I do have a couple of questions for which I couldn't find answers in the
archives... guess I'll ask all you experts out there. :)
How feasible would it be to build a Piet in a one-car garage? My wife and I
are looking to buy a house, hopefully we can find a 2-car garage but so far
it's been slim pickin's on that front. I know that folks have managed to
build airplanes inside porta-johns and jail cells and the like... and
obviously the more room you have, the better... but what advice do you folks
have on building in a not-too-large space? I suspect in this situation one
should build the flattest parts first so they can be stored elsewhere.
Secondly, I'm trying to collect info on the feasability of obtaining my
sport pilot license in a (my) Piet. Has anyone out there actually learned to
fly in a Pietenpol? Again, I know that it is theoretically possible, but
would like to gather opinions on the idea from those who have either done
it, tried it, or who can offer supportable reasons not to try it.
Finally, has anyone devised a way to fold the wings on a regular basis for
transport? Hangar space here is scarce, and it certainly ain't cheap!
Thanks, and sorry for the basic questions I'm sure many of you have heard
before.
-Mike
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> |
Although I have downloaded it, I haven't read all of ANC-18, which is a
very comprehensive document on suitability of various woods for
aircraft. For example, it lists fir as being stronger than spruce in
all aspects save shear strength (4% weaker), and 18% heavier. Bending
strength for sitka spruce is listed as 9400psi, 10,800 for red pine,
10,900 for fir, 11,000 for hemlock, 10,200 for Port Orford cedar, etc.
I believe overall, Port Orford rates highest, Yellow Cedar a close
second, and spruce is somewhere down there. I mentioned to Cliff Dawson
a while back, that the Brits built their great Man O Wars from oak for
one simple reason. It was there. Oak is a lousy wood for boats, with
very poor tolerance to shock, rot, etc, but at the time, it was the best
stuff they had. The EAA book, wood aircraft building techniques, lists
the fol:
Grade A wood - structural/stressed parts, min density 24 lbs. cu ft,
10-17% moisture, grain slope 1/15, and
Grade B wood - secondary parts, 22-24 density, slope 1/12, same moisture
content. Min number of annular rings per inch is listed as 6 or 8
depending on the wood. All of the Yellow Cedar I've used, has more than
8 per quarter inch, I'll attach a photo to give you an idea. Pitch or
bark pockets are to be no greater than "not deeper than 1/8 W, nor wider
than 1/4 in. or 1/8 W, whichever is the lesser, and no longer than 2 in.
or four times the distance to the spar corner, whichever is the lesser:
and it keeps going. I just simply don't use wood with any pitch or
pockets whatsoever, and it's not difficult to find. Much of the Yellow
Cedar here has no defects, and no slope. For some reason when I first
started building I thought the min std was 1 in 44 inches for slope, and
I set aside anything less, and still had plenty of wood. I have done
18' strips on large canoes with perfectly straight grain the entire
length!!
I will get off my butt and check on the ins and outs of shipping to the
US, and all the legal crap, as I said, I won't do it as a business, but
definately will help in any way possible for fellow wooden aircraft
enthusiasts. Keep in touch, I will post any shipping info as soon as I
get it. Dave Rowe
> I have several references that suggest Port Orford Cedar (C. lawsoniana)
> and Alaska Yellow Cedar (C. nootkatensis) are suitable aircraft woods, but
> at the time(s) of their publication indicated that they might be hard to
> find due to market & logging practice considerations. I assume you are
> speaking about one of these? I could be very interested in spar material,
> and maybe some 1x1 for general usage.
>
> Can you give us a few more details in the context of the specifications
> (rings per inch, pitch pockets, grain slope, etc.) for aircraft grade wood?
>
> Back when I lived in coastal VA, I spent a year doing biological survey
> work in the coastal swamps. Down there, they have remnant populations of
> another related species, Atlantic White Cedar. This stuff was highly sought
> for boat building back at the turn of the 20th century. It's real pretty &
> I always thought it had potential as aircraft wood. But most of the stands
> were cut for shipbuilding & it requires very specific fire conditions to
> reseed a stand, so it's largely a lost resource. We used to come across
> 12-18 inch logs that had been down, in swamp muck, for 50 or 60 years and
> were still intact - decay resistant for sure!
>
> Your stuff sounds like it might be a really good alternative. Thanks for
> bringing it up.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> North Canton, OH
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> |
You said it so much better and shorter than I did. What cliff says. .
Clif Dawson wrote:
>
>
> Alaska yellow is the same wood. Port Orford cedar
> is very limited in its growing area but is the strongest
> of the three( spruce, Alaska, PO. )
>
> In the chart I've got, one of the US Forest Service lab's
> research documents, the woods are tested at 12%
> moisture so at 6% they are even stronger.
>
> Spruce-compression-4500 lb/sq in.
> Yellow- " " -5210 " "
> Orford- " " -5890 " "
>
> Other strength factors have the same relationship.
>
> Spruce and yellow are listed at31 lb/cube foot, PO is 29
>
> The only possible negative is that yellow cedar is a little
> less crush resistant. Easily compensated for.
>
> VERY nice to work with. Doug Fir is a real pain. Since the
> hardness varies so greatly between the winter and summer
> rings, it's difficult to drill a hole exactly were you want it.
> Not so with the cedars. Also doug fir splits at the slightest
> wim. It's not even a true fir.
>
> Pitch pockets can turn up ( and will ) at any place without
> any warning at all in doug. This is not a concern in the others.
> Or in true firs for that matter. There can be unknown pitch
> pockets in your 3/4" spars ( unless you X-ray them.)
>
> Clif
>
>
> >
> > >
> > >I would just like to throw something out for all to ponder, and give me
> > >your feedback. Currently, Sitka Spruce seems to be the choice of
> > >aircraft builders. The first aircraft I am building right now, the
> > >Santa Anna, by Paul Ralph of Victoria BC (tiswildeair.com), was designed
> > >specifically with Yellow Cedar in mind.
> > >In discussions with others, I've heard of Douglas Fir (YUK), and Hemlock
> > >being used as well. I use Hemlock myself for gunwhales for cedar-strip
> > >canoes and kayaks that I build, and I do like it. You can see photos of
> > >the two planes I am building at mykitplanes.com, to get an idea of what
> > >Yellow Cdear looks like. > >
> > >your thoughts, crticisms, etc. Thanks, Dave Rowe, Victoria, BC
> >
> > Dave,
> >
> > I have several references that suggest Port Orford Cedar (C. lawsoniana)
> > and Alaska Yellow Cedar (C. nootkatensis) are suitable aircraft woods, but
> > at the time(s) of their publication indicated that they might be hard to
> > find due to market & logging practice considerations. I assume you are
> > speaking about one of these? I could be very interested in spar material,
> > and maybe some 1x1 for general usage.
> >
> > Can you give us a few more details in the context of the specifications
> > (rings per inch, pitch pockets, grain slope, etc.) for aircraft grade
> wood?
> > >
> > Your stuff sounds like it might be a really good alternative. Thanks for
> > bringing it up.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Kip Gardner
> >
> > North Canton, OH
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Instruments for Sale |
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, commander-list(at)matronics.com,
aerobatic-list(at)matronics.com, europa-list(at)matronics.com
I have the following for sale:
RC Allen Electric Attitude Indicator with 8 degree tilt, 14V, approx. 75hrs
RC Allen Electric Direction Gyro, 14V, 150 hrs,
Both instruments are in my RV-8A still flying. Been flying in my plane for 1
year.
Instruments retail for $1895 each. Make an offer off list. Please respond
direct to: lenleg(at)aol.com
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | "sport" pilot classification |
Does anybody know the status of the new pilot classification, I think it's called
" sport" pilot? I might be confusing it with the one they tried in the eighties,
but I think that was "recreational" pilot.
When will it happen and what are the rules and regs for getting one and using one.
A problem I found with the old recreational pilot rating was none of the flight
schools would offer it. And they'd make it so expensive you might as well go
private.
Douwe
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Talkers and doers |
Larry---some people have valid excuses for not following thru and finishing
an airplane project and to me that's just fine. It's the other
flash-in-the-pan types who get so hyped up and hot about building then come
to find out it actually takes hard work, creative thinking, money, time,
and sacrifice, and then they bail out. Some talk, some do. I like those
who do. Like a t-shirt for a Hawaiian radio station I saw one time
read: "rock, be rocked, or step aside."
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Mike Whaley--- welcome to the list ! Both Steve Eldrege and myself built
our planes and only had one car garages at the time. My entire Piet
stored nicely in that one car garage with the wings and tail sections
off. (oh...that would be a three pce wing not the 29 foot long one piece
wing)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Dec. 17th - Kitty Hawk |
I know this is off subject, but here goes anyway. Our Piet builders group is going
to Kitty Hawk for the 1st flight repeat. I could only order 6 tickets and
need one more for the 17th. Does anyone have an extra. I'll pay $100.
Barry Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Insurance
===================================
Dick,
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I am a EAA member and tried through them. Made
an application and never heard back. It may be because of my age, I am 76
yrs old. Don't think so though, because at one underwriter, I listed the
primary pilot as a friend who is a professional engineering test pilot with
many thousand hours in over 130 types. Still got turned down. "auto
engine".was the excuse again. ????
John
===================================
>
> John
> Are you an EAA or AOPA member? It may make a difference.
> Dick N.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Insurance
>
>
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> > To:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Insurance
> > ===============================
> > Mike and other Pieters,
> >
> > I have tried several times to get insurance on my Piet and if not been
> > outright refused, ignored.
> >
> > The excuse is that since the plane is powered with an auto engine, the
> > companies don't want to touch it!
> >
> > Are there any owners out there with converted auto engines that have
been
> > able to get insurance? I would sure like to hear from you!
> >
> > John
> > ================================
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > carrying 1 mil $ liability only on my Air Camper costs about
$300/year
> > and
> > > I've switched to EAA's new carrier (since Avemco bailed
> > > out) http://www.falconinsurance.com
> > >
> > > Not sure what the additional hull insurance would be but I'd suspect
for
> > > about $800 or so you should be able to get liab. and hull to value at
> > > around $15,000.
> > >
> > > Mike C.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | At7000ft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Talkers and doers |
It is true that you see a lot of projects for sale in the "almost finished"
category. You wouldn't think that it would take 2, 3, or 4 years of work for
someone to discover that an aircraft is too much work. I think a lot of people
just like to build things, and then when the reality really hits them that they
are really going to have to fly this thing then they loose interest.
(Especially people who have not learned to fly prior to building).
Rick Holland
Larry---some people have valid excuses for not following thru and finishing
an airplane project and to me that's just fine. It's the other
flash-in-the-pan types who get so hyped up and hot about building then come
to find out it actually takes hard work, creative thinking, money, time,
and sacrifice, and then they bail out.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dan john <ballmell(at)yahoo.com> |
Sounds like the same experience I`v had.Know one would
cover it until the restrictions are flown off and I
have at least 10 houres in it.I had Vi Kapler listed
as my pilot.Minnesota requires insurance on all
aircraft flown in Minnesota.I guess thay are forcing a
person to be a lier.This may be the downside of using
a Corvair engine. John P.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Accident reports |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
Apologies to all about the messed up table I sent yesterday, but the
locations, dates and tail numbers are pretty clear in it anyway.
A note on not getting the NTSB string search feature to work: you have
to specify as much as you possibly can to keep the answer set as small
as possible, or the machine will grind away forever and maybe time-out
on you. Hence, instead of defaulting to "all," specify "airplane,"
"general aviation," "amateur built," etc., etc. for every category you
can. And you may have to hit it more than once (I got a "page not
found" error the first time). Probably helps to do it at a time when
not everyone is logged on to it, too--like early in the morning or late
at night.
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Accident reports |
Thanks for your efforts, Mark. One thing puzzles me. There are two crashes
(both nonfatal, thank goodness) that don't show up. One is that of Wm. Wynne in
N1777W on 7/14/01 and the other is a crash involving major damage to N63SB,
(resulting from loss of power due to loss of oil) flown by Jimmy Davenport
sometime in 1993. I have a feeling that the reporting of these incidents may be
"spotty". What do you think? Carl Vought
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: one car garage |
Did mine in a 10x20ft basement complete with an angled "cellar" door.
That's half the fun, to figure how to fit all the stuff.
Jim Malley ( on this group) started his in a second story appartment in
somewhere like Jersey City. When he moved to larger quarters, ( as the
story goes in Kitplanes) They passed the wings etc. out the front window to
the sidewalk.
Where there is a will there IS a way.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: one car garage
>
> Mike Whaley--- welcome to the list ! Both Steve Eldrege and myself
built
> our planes and only had one car garages at the time. My entire Piet
> stored nicely in that one car garage with the wings and tail sections
> off. (oh...that would be a three pce wing not the 29 foot long one piece
> wing)
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "sport" pilot classification |
Douwe,
Go here
http://www.sportpilot.org/
explains it all.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "sport" pilot classification
>
> Does anybody know the status of the new pilot classification, I think it's
called " sport" pilot? I might be confusing it with the one they tried in
the eighties, but I think that was "recreational" pilot.
>
> When will it happen and what are the rules and regs for getting one and
using one.
>
> A problem I found with the old recreational pilot rating was none of the
flight schools would offer it. And they'd make it so expensive you might as
well go private.
>
> Douwe
> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Dec. 17th - Kitty Hawk |
Hi Barry,
I might be able to help you, but won't know until a little closer to the
time. I have three tickets, bought for myself, my girlfriend and her son.
We've split up, but there is some (slight) chance that we'll get back
together before Kittyhawk. If we don't, you're welcome to the ticket for
the $50 I think it cost me (1 week ticket).
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Davis
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dec. 17th - Kitty Hawk
I know this is off subject, but here goes anyway. Our Piet builders group is
going to Kitty Hawk for the 1st flight repeat. I could only order 6 tickets
and need one more for the 17th. Does anyone have an extra. I'll pay $100.
Barry Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "sport" pilot classification |
Sport pilot is different.
It was signed by the FAA Adminsitrator, good ol' what'sername, at Oshkosh,
then passed to some other beurocratic group for final approval. From there
it has to go to the Federal Register where it will become official. It's
pretty close.
I don't know about the certification changes ( I honestly don't care), but
once certified, to operate under sport pilot you won't need a medical, onl
a driver's license. It will be restricted to a pilot and one passenger, VFR
day only. Gross will be limited to 1250lb.
In addition to the sport pilot changes, there are also changes to aircraft
certification which are supposed to allow some new planes to be
manufactured that won't cost you both your first-born and your retirement
account.
The EAA web site has a link to all this straight from the home page if you
want details.
Jim Ash
>
>
>Does anybody know the status of the new pilot classification, I think it's
>called " sport" pilot? I might be confusing it with the one they tried in
>the eighties, but I think that was "recreational" pilot.
>
>When will it happen and what are the rules and regs for getting one and
>using one.
>
>A problem I found with the old recreational pilot rating was none of the
>flight schools would offer it. And they'd make it so expensive you might
>as well go private.
>
>Douwe
>douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Accident reports |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Only one of my off field landings has been reported...
Steve e.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Accident reports
In a message dated 11/4/03 11:20:21 AM Central Standard Time,
Carbarvo(at)aol.com writes:
<< Chuck...You've hit a nerve with me. Your investigation of Pietenpol
accidents
is extremely valuable to all of us. I am particularly interested in
accidents
caused by the failure of wire wheels. Would you scribble my name down
on an
old lunch meat wrapper so that when you get through with your research
you
could let me know? I'd appreciate that very much...Carl Vought >>
Carl,
The FAA / NTSB require a report to be filed when extensive damage has
occured, or an injury has occured. The failure of a wire wheel / ground
loop,
probably wouldn't end up being reported. I'm sure there are plenty of
incidents,
even off field landings, that are not reported. However, I'll be sure
to send
you my report when I get it done. I've had to scroll through the NTSB
file,
month by month, because I couldn't get the site to bring anything up
when I
tried to use 'Pietenpol' as the key word. Very time consuming.
Chuck G.
=
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Malley" <jgmalley(at)comcast.net> |
There are a few Ford Escorts being used in Pietenpols. It began with the 1.9
liter engine installed by Ed Lubitz in the early 80's. His design did not
invert the engine; using a belt reduction gear and a lower bed mount placed
the thrust line at the same level as the Ford A. Its predecessor, the 1.6
Fiesta, has proven reliable as well. Prop tops out at about 2000 rpm and
fuel at about 2.75 gph. Scouts are more rare than Aircampers - guess most of
us like to share the fun.
Jim Malley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Fisher" <mfisher(at)gci.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tradition
>
> Dear seat of the pants flying enthusiasts,
>
> A Ford powered Pietenpol is an American tradition - - a way for a scrappy
maverick to say: I am not dependent on Cessna/Raytheon/Lycoming/Continental.
I have a 1.9 liter engine from a 1993 Ford Escort. Everything about it
says: Pietenpol Scout. My plan is to invert the engine to get a low center
of gravity with high thrust line. This will require extensive modifications
to the lubrication, fuel, and cooling systems. A scavenge pump should not
be necessary. Constant flow, variable pressure, multi-port injection will
deliver the fuel. The propeller flange will be bolted to the crankshaft
flange - - no belts or gears. Extra pressure oil will be provided to the
thrust bearing.
>
> This installation should come in a bit lighter than the original Ford,
while providing perhaps 15% more thrust. Modern liquid cooled, fuel
injected engines can enable economy and range not attainable with air
cooling. Thirty horsepower applied to a long, slow turning Prop. should
cruise a Scout at seventy MPH. Fuel flow at this power setting will be less
than 2.2 GPH A light wooden propeller turning at about 2400 RPM will
minimize precessive loads on the crankshaft. Inverting an automobile engine
for aircraft use is nothing new. Steve Wittman did it years ago with a
Tailwind.
>
> Why am I doing this? In thirty five years of training pilots, I have
observed a severe deterioration in basic airmanship skills. The modern
curriculum devotes so much time to regulatory compliance and electronics
that precious little is left for stick and rudder. When experienced, role
model pilots are seen flying simple, basic airplanes with skill and gusto, a
valuable message is sent out: "I can do this too." is the thought which has
inspired many great careers.
>
> I am interested in a plans-built Pietenpol Scout, firewall back, as a test
bed for my engine. Some damage would be acceptable.
>
> Happy landings, Mike Fisher
> P. O. Box 347
> Talkeetna, Alaska 99676
> (907) 733-2356
> Alternate e-mail: michaeljpoisson(at)yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | EAA's "Experimenter" magazine |
Oscar Zuniga -
Ssshhhh. EAA's "Experimenter" monthly magazine is slowly and stealthily
taken over by Piet people. Have you noticed that Cy Galley (who is the key
man at AirVenture for emergency repair of aircraft) has a monthly column
"Update from Headquarters, William Wynne has a monthly column "Getting
Started", and Bob Whittier ( a Piet afficianado for over 50 years) has one
of the most interesting monthly columns in any magazine, "Light Plane
Heritage", are all Piet people. Ben Morrow "Education Thru Airror" is
really a closet Piet type guy. Our local Chapter newsletter recently
stated "Among aviation writers, Bob Whittier received the Bax Seat Trophy
for his years of extremely well-done articles in a number of aviation
magazines. He has the ability to take information about airplanes and
write so the reader has a complete understanding of it. As you watch Bob
work, he climbs over and under the airplane, camera in hand, and makes a
few notes. Later, when you read his piece, you realize he is thinking all
the time about how he will present it."
Bob's 5-page article about Brodhead's sacred ground in the November
"Experimenter", chock full of photos and his pertinent comments take you
right to Brodhead! And, of course, he prints full credit to folks like
Mike Cuy, Larry Williams, and Ed Reber.
Altho "Experimenter" has a very strong flavor about Ultralights (SNL - "not
that there's anything wrong with that"), our Piet writers are slowly
putting Editor Mary Jones in the frog-in-the-heated water situation. Maybe
she won't recognize our subtle Pietenpol noise (pun intended) until
"Experimenter" is all grassroots with an occasional Ultralight article.
By the way, the tailwheel dolly (works great on a tailskid, too) shown by
Bob Whittier's photo does happen to be a wood disk. What we use here is
more mundane. We use a 2x6 plank maybe 8 inches long with three casters
under it, and build a little receptacle box on top to accept the tailwheel
or skid. We also have such dollys for the main wheels, so we can move the
airplanes sideways.
The Midwest Antique Aviation Club (MAAC) has an annual autumn fly-in at
Brodhead. It is so well attended that we have to restrict it to members
only, because we fill the airfield with parked airplanes and would have no
runway space left! The problem with Whittier's article is that now the
world will know what we had thought was our own secret Brodhead
experience. Kind of like AirVenture. The damned thing is just too successful!
This is November and its time for each of us to contribute to Matronics so
we can have this great medium for interchange. If everybody just kicked in
$10, it would be a big financial boost. If you can do $50 or so, that's
great, but a lot of $10 bills would be kind of Piet-like. Hearing from
Corky is worth $10.
Doc Mosher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
AOPA Avemco refused me flatly which I hope I remember when renewal time comes
around. EAA uses Falcon and they took me without too much quarrel. $540 for 1
million liab plus not in motion hull coverage for $15000 value.
I asked Falcon several months ago if I could expect them to drop me when and
IF this Sport Pilot ever comes around. He said NO. All I would need is a
sign-off by my instructor pilot for tail wheel and bi annual. I'll believe all
of
this when it actually happens.
Try Falcon thru EAA, it's about our only chance.
Corky in La flying his creation like a bird until a front moved thru today.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Malcolm Morrison" <morrisons5(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hello, and a few questions |
> Finally, has anyone devised a way to fold the wings on a regular basis for
> transport? Hangar space here is scarce, and it certainly ain't cheap!
>
Hi Mike
I have designed a folding wing for my aircamper. I have the fuselage and
tail just about done and I am just starting on the wing center section. The
center section is 4 feet wide and the lift strust are tilted out so they
attach directly to the wing folding brackets at the ends of the center rear
spar. The wings will fold back around the rear spar and rotate a little bit
so that the trailing edge is about 2 feet higher than the leading edge.
When folded it will be about 9.5 feet from leading edge to leading edge. I
am going to use a "v" strut setup with a pivot at the fuselage attach point.
The wing will be held inplace with captive pins at the front spar. This
will allow wings to fold/unfold quickly. Still working out the datails as I
go and I plan to load test the finished wing. I'll try to keep the group
updated on progress through the list server and my web site
http://users.adelphia.net/~morrisons5
Good luck with your project
Malcolm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello Mr Malley:
I have admired your plane since the first article... Do you still have
the Escort engine? How many hours to date?... I will like to read any
comments... Your plane (and several of this list) is a real tradition
in the Piet world.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Jim Malley wrote:
>
>
> There are a few Ford Escorts being used in Pietenpols. It began with
> the 1.9
> liter engine installed by Ed Lubitz in the early 80's. His design did
> not
> invert the engine; using a belt reduction gear and a lower bed mount
> placed
> the thrust line at the same level as the Ford A. Its predecessor, the
> 1.6
> Fiesta, has proven reliable as well. Prop tops out at about 2000 rpm
> and
> fuel at about 2.75 gph. Scouts are more rare than Aircampers - guess
> most of
> us like to share the fun.
> Jim Malley
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Fisher" <mfisher(at)gci.net>
> To:
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tradition
>
>
>
> >
> > Dear seat of the pants flying enthusiasts,
> >
> > A Ford powered Pietenpol is an American tradition - - a way for a
> scrappy
> maverick to say: I am not dependent on
> Cessna/Raytheon/Lycoming/Continental.
> I have a 1.9 liter engine from a 1993 Ford Escort. Everything about
> it
> says: Pietenpol Scout. My plan is to invert the engine to get a low
> center
> of gravity with high thrust line. This will require extensive
> modifications
> to the lubrication, fuel, and cooling systems. A scavenge pump
> should not
> be necessary. Constant flow, variable pressure, multi-port injection
> will
> deliver the fuel. The propeller flange will be bolted to the
> crankshaft
> flange - - no belts or gears. Extra pressure oil will be provided to
> the
> thrust bearing.
> >
> > This installation should come in a bit lighter than the original
> Ford,
> while providing perhaps 15% more thrust. Modern liquid cooled, fuel
> injected engines can enable economy and range not attainable with air
> cooling. Thirty horsepower applied to a long, slow turning Prop.
> should
> cruise a Scout at seventy MPH. Fuel flow at this power setting will
> be less
> than 2.2 GPH A light wooden propeller turning at about 2400 RPM will
> minimize precessive loads on the crankshaft. Inverting an automobile
> engine
> for aircraft use is nothing new. Steve Wittman did it years ago with
> a
> Tailwind.
> >
> > Why am I doing this? In thirty five years of training pilots, I
> have
> observed a severe deterioration in basic airmanship skills. The
> modern
> curriculum devotes so much time to regulatory compliance and
> electronics
> that precious little is left for stick and rudder. When experienced,
> role
> model pilots are seen flying simple, basic airplanes with skill and
> gusto, a
> valuable message is sent out: "I can do this too." is the thought
> which has
> inspired many great careers.
> >
> > I am interested in a plans-built Pietenpol Scout, firewall back, as
> a test
> bed for my engine. Some damage would be acceptable.
> >
> > Happy landings, Mike Fisher
> > P. O. Box 347
> > Talkeetna, Alaska 99676
> > (907) 733-2356
> > Alternate e-mail: michaeljpoisson(at)yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _->
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dec. 17th - Kitty Hawk |
Barr D.
I do not have a ticket but I do have information of a Model A Ford engine
for sale ready to bolt on built by a FAA licensed mechanic. Any one
interested get in touch with me and I will give you his phone number.
Alex Sloan
256-764-2083 alexms1(at)bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dec. 17th - Kitty Hawk
>
> I know this is off subject, but here goes anyway. Our Piet builders group
is going to Kitty Hawk for the 1st flight repeat. I could only order 6
tickets and need one more for the 17th. Does anyone have an extra. I'll pay
$100.
> Barry Davis
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
My project is in the final phase. I've always wanted to use a Ford, and even have
one being worked on as I write.
However, now that the "reality" is looking me in the face I am having second thoughts
about the reliability factor. From what I've read, it would "appear" that
a large majority of Ford flyers have experienced forced landings, which while
usually fine out here in the midwest, isn't something I'd like to have to
plan on.
I'd like any feedback/opinions on this subject. And, if I did decide to go the
Continental route, where is the best place to start looking, or are there shops
out there selling yellowtagged units?
Douwe
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Accident reports |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
Carl,
Hey, I'm just a tax-paying user of the d.b.; I don't manage it! Like
any airplane there is probably always something on it that could use
some maintenance. But it is useful for getting an overall view, which
is how I have used it to help in researching a plane to build or an
engine to use (maybe someday I'll actually start building one--the
Bingelis books arrived at my doorstep 3 days ago and I just finished
watching Mike Cuy's video a second time).
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: was insurance, now, flying with stones? |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
Sam,
I sent a note to Kip yesterday outside the list mentioning my I own
successful bout with stones 2 years ago, but worth mentioning here is
that the senior AME who eventually cleared me told me that not once in
the history of aviation had a crash ever been attributed to kidney
stones. The conversation was a long time ago now, and I don't know the
exact words. He didn't deny that there might have been stone attacks at
altitude, only that had they ever occurred the belief was that where
there's a will, there's a way--like so many other aviation stories in
which pilots have managed to get the wheels back to the ground under
duress. Some people carry stones around most of their lives without
even knowing they're there (I have no idea how long the ones in me were
there before my first attack), and the likelihood of them causing an
emergency in the sky is remote. I felt fine and flew the morning before
my first attack, and unlike your situation, the onset of my pain that
night was gradual, gradual enough that had I been flying I'm pretty sure
I could have gotten the plane on the ground before the situation got out
of control. I didn't have another attack for 5 days, in fact, which is
when they finally diagnosed it as stones and not food poisoning. Of
course, having had the attack and the knowledge of the condition I
didn't fly solo until the condition was clear (and only after an M.D.'s
approval per the regs).
Why am I blathering? Because I'm an adamant believer that a driver's
license will be just fine for the Sport Pilot regs, and I'm concerned
that there is already too much resistance (T.S. Agency, airlines, etc.)
to the proposal. It sounds like you must have actually started passing
the stone without warning, which I think is pretty rare (hey, I'm not a
doctor), but kidney stones and most other medical issues statistically
just don't account for enough of a problem in the skies to warrant
additional restrictions on Sport Pilot and we need to keep a level
perspective on them.
Here's to many happy hours on NX115SM, unencumbered by bureaucracy!
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Accident reports |
Carl writes-
>One thing puzzles me. There are two crashes (both
>nonfatal, thank goodness) that don't show up. One is
>that of Wm. Wynne in N1777W on 7/14/01
Good question! Several things may complicate the search for this one. One
thing right away is that the NTSB lists it as a "Pitenpol Aircamper 1933"
(see http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20010720X01467&key=1 and it's
NTSB file MIA01LA186). Another is that William was not the pilot; he was
the passenger. And so it goes-! The search engine is extremely precise,
and if you have one little thing off in your search, it won't "hit".
Another thing to watch for is that many folks call their airplanes "Smith
Air Camper" or "Jones Aircamper" or "Frankenstein GN-1", or something else
other than including "Pietenpol". You'd almost have to weed through all the
NTSB reports with finer and finer search criteria, one by one, till you
found the majority of possibles that you're looking for. For one thing, the
NTSB database only goes back to 1962 and the Piet goes way further than
that. I suppose you can rule out a bunch of possibles by searching only on
experimentals. Then on single engine. Then... well, you get the idea.
And BTW- any of you who have met John Dilatush (turbo Subaru Piet) are
probably as amazed as I am to learn that he's in his mid 70's. The man is
greatly understated as to his abilities and capabilities! (But we all know
what his bladder capacity is, now that we heard his "gotta land" stories).
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95.
https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Accident reports |
If a search is conducted for "Pietenpol", it will get all the Pietenpols. It
will not get any "Aircampers" or "Davis Pietenpol" or "Big Piet". The search
only looks for the registered name of the aircraft. Unfortunately a lot of
builders register their planes with their names, so it makes searches almost
impossible. William Wynne's might have bed registered as a "Pietenpol
Aircamper" therefore it would be excluded from the search. ps: I don't know
how his Piet was listed, just using his for an example.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Carbarvo(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Accident reports
>
> Thanks for your efforts, Mark. One thing puzzles me. There are two crashes
> (both nonfatal, thank goodness) that don't show up. One is that of Wm.
Wynne in
> N1777W on 7/14/01 and the other is a crash involving major damage to
N63SB,
> (resulting from loss of power due to loss of oil) flown by Jimmy Davenport
> sometime in 1993. I have a feeling that the reporting of these incidents
may be
> "spotty". What do you think? Carl Vought
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | no one has made a successful canopy for a Pietenpol,,have |
they?
With all the inventions going around, has anyone ever made a cold weather flying
canopy or Bubble??
this afternoon I was listening to the weather reports for tomorrow AM of mid 20's,
and this popped into my head. In looking at the Piet, it's not out of the
question. Kind of like a short AT-6 canopy for the rear hole.
The older I get, the more I'm thinking of a closed cabin.
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Fisher <mfisher(at)gci.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: rhartwig11(at)juno.com
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2003 10:39 am
Subject: Talkeetna
> Mike,
> I read your message on the Piet List. I don't know of any scouts for
> sale, but will ask around and let you know if I find anything.
>
> I have read Don Sheldon's books and considered him a real hero. Is
> Roberta Reeve Sheldon still living in Talkeetna? Her father, Bob
> Reeve,is from our little town (The depot in town is dedicated to
> his father.)
>
> Dick Hartwig
> Waunakee WI
>
Dear Mr. Hartwig,
I appreciate your offer to keep an eye open for a Scout. They are quite rare, compared
to the
Aircamper. I like the Scout for several reasons: A. It was designed after the
Aircamper and embodies refinements based on experience. B. It can be built very
light. The original plans state that it is heavier than necessary. C. The
spars can be routed from 12 foot blanks (with a short splice near the tip).
The 1.9 liter Ford, operated direct drive at an RPM suitable for a slow airplane
is only capable of about 32 honest horsepower. This is not sufficient to carry
two aloft with safe performance margins.
There is really no substitute for displacement. The original "T" engine was about
3 liters, and the"A" engine almost 3.4 liters.
Getting scalded with hot coolant after a rough landing was a common injury suffered
by early Pietenpol pilots. The radiator had to be mounted high for the thermo-siphon
system to work. I hope to eliminate this hazard.
Roberta is still alive and well in Talkeetna. She has written books on the subjects
of Alaska history and gold mining lore. One of her daughters is very interested
in flying and family history. I've been working with her on Supercub
and mountain operations. I flew for them for many years and now have a small,
country machine shop - - mostly repair and modification work on mining equipment,
riverboats, etc.
Best regards, Mike Fisher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Douwe
There are Contintals around every corner. www.barnstrrmers.com or on ebay,
also Wentworth Aviation in Mpls, Mn. usually has lots of engines.. If you
have built a short fuse you may want to go to a O-200 or other model with a
starter and alternator for the extra weight up front.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List:
>
> My project is in the final phase. I've always wanted to use a Ford, and
even have one being worked on as I write.
>
> However, now that the "reality" is looking me in the face I am having
second thoughts about the reliability factor. From what I've read, it would
"appear" that a large majority of Ford flyers have experienced forced
landings, which while usually fine out here in the midwest, isn't something
I'd like to have to plan on.
>
> I'd like any feedback/opinions on this subject. And, if I did decide to
go the Continental route, where is the best place to start looking, or are
there shops out there selling yellowtagged units?
>
> Douwe
> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: no one has made a successful canopy for a Pietenpol,,have... |
Walt,
Waste of time. Who would ever need a canopy while flying a Piet. It takes a
MAN to fly that plane
Corky, a little boy in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | no one has made a successful canopy for a Pietenpol,,have |
they?
Walt,
Its been very cold here and the air is so still the ride would be nice
and firm. The kind'a ride where the only bumps you make, and the only
vibration is the engine/prop. Have you considered a tonneau cover that
zips up to your shoulder/neck level. If you could see your instruments
and your arms could stay inside, all that needs to stick out is your
head. Lots of good helmet choices around.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of w b
evans
Subject: Pietenpol-List: no one has made a successful canopy for a
Pietenpol,,have they?
With all the inventions going around, has anyone ever made a cold
weather flying canopy or Bubble??
this afternoon I was listening to the weather reports for tomorrow AM of
mid 20's, and this popped into my head. In looking at the Piet, it's
not out of the question. Kind of like a short AT-6 canopy for the rear
hole.
The older I get, the more I'm thinking of a closed cabin.
walt evans
NX140DL
=
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> aPietenpol, have.they?(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Re: no one has made a successful canopy for |
aPietenpol,,have they?
they?
From those of us who live in the great white north (Canada), in WW II,
the Tiger Moth basic trainer was a little chilly in -40 temperatures, so
someone came up with a snap-on, zip up canopy. If you already have a
windshield, it can attach to that, only needs a couple of braces. Look
at the boat covers with plastic windows sewn in, same idea.
John McNarry wrote:
>
>
> Walt,
> Its been very cold here and the air is so still the ride would be nice
> and firm. The kind'a ride where the only bumps you make, and the only
> vibration is the engine/prop. Have you considered a tonneau cover that
> zips up to your shoulder/neck level. If you could see your instruments
> and your arms could stay inside, all that needs to stick out is your
> head. Lots of good helmet choices around.
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of w b
> evans
> To: piet discussion
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: no one has made a successful canopy for a
> Pietenpol,,have they?
>
>
> With all the inventions going around, has anyone ever made a cold
> weather flying canopy or Bubble??
> this afternoon I was listening to the weather reports for tomorrow AM of
> mid 20's, and this popped into my head. In looking at the Piet, it's
> not out of the question. Kind of like a short AT-6 canopy for the rear
> hole.
> The older I get, the more I'm thinking of a closed cabin.
>
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
> > ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Continental pakette engine |
I scanned the 60 pages or so of info I have on the continental packette engine
that is about the size of an O-200 from a GPU. Does anyone need a copy of the
CD? It is yours for a ten buck donation to EAA chapter 25.
Chris Bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
Not a one? Hope I'm not bumped.
anyone out there?
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Nope. Nobody here.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of w b evans
Subject: Pietenpol-List: nothing today?
Not a one? Hope I'm not bumped.
anyone out there?
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: nothing today? |
Oh, Man. In the NE it's in the 30's today and the forecast calls for the
20's in the AM,,,Here we go again!
Corky, you have any spare rooms? :
)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: nothing today?
>
> Nope. Nobody here.
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of w b evans
> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 6:14 PM
> To: piet discussion
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: nothing today?
>
>
> Not a one? Hope I'm not bumped.
> anyone out there?
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Supposed to get cold here (North Carolina) tonight. I wish this cold front
would just move on out, but it has gone stationary over the coast. I'm
supposed to fly to Wilmington tomorrow (in a Cherokee, not anything fun) for
a blind date with a lady I met online. Hope the WX will be flyable then - I
hate driving.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
Putting the finishing tapes on NX899JP's fuselage tonight.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of w b evans
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: nothing today?
Oh, Man. In the NE it's in the 30's today and the forecast calls for the
20's in the AM,,,Here we go again!
Corky, you have any spare rooms? :
)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: nothing today?
>
> Nope. Nobody here.
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of w b evans
> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 6:14 PM
> To: piet discussion
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: nothing today?
>
>
> Not a one? Hope I'm not bumped.
> anyone out there?
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Dave,
I used Yellow Cedar for the wing trailing edges of my Pietenpol because
of its high resistance to rotting in the presence of moisture. Since
airplanes
in general spend a lot of time just sitting, and the wing trailing edge of a
taildragger will be a low point for moisture collection, I figured Yellow
Cedar would be a good choice after being told it was the wood of choice
for pilings immersed in water.
After thirty-three years, those trailing edges are still good--although
there
is a bit of waviness evident when looking down the T.E. At the time I built
my Pietenpol, there was some concern about getting a good glue joint with
Y.C. Aerolite glue was used initially and when the wings were stripped for
recover in 1985, some joints had indeed failed. These were re-glued with
epoxy and they still seem to be sound. I would suggest making some test
joints with T 88 if you use Y.C.
Port Orford cedar was used for the wing spars of a batch of Bellanca
Skyrocket bushplanes, built around 1945-46 by Northwest Industries in
Edmonton, Alberta. It was beautiful stuff and apparently was nice to work
with. If you can find some, it would be an excellent choice for Pietenpol
construction.
I used Douglas Fir and Western Hemlock for my laminated I-beam spars
and Yellow Cedar "swallow tail" fillers at fitting points where bolts pass
through the wood. If Port Orford Cedar had been available, I would have
prefered it instead of fir (or even spruce, which I couldn't find at the
time).
Next Saturday (November 15) I hope to fly CF-AUN on the 33rd anniver-
sary of its first flight.
Cheers,
Graham (Camrose, Alberta, Canada)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Continental pakette engine |
what is a continental packett?
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental pakette engine |
It was a GPU designed out of the 0-200 and O-300. They are wierd in that
they have only one spark plug, the intake port is on top of the cylinder and
are otherwise strange. Carb is mounted above the engine. The cranks can be
used as esperimental O-200 cranks but the flange for the prop is thinner and
needs stabilization such as a steel prop spacer to give it more support. I
don't know that much about them other than what is on the CD.
I apparently am the only person on the web that has any info at all so I
just assume share it.
chris
----- Original Message -----
From: <Gnwac(at)cs.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental pakette engine
>
> what is a continental packett?
> Greg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: nothing today? |
Deer hunting opener in Minnesota today. I was out there at 6:30 am, 5
degrees. Yes, I got one.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: nothing today?
>
> Oh, Man. In the NE it's in the 30's today and the forecast calls for the
> 20's in the AM,,,Here we go again!
> Corky, you have any spare rooms? :
> )
> walt evans
> NX140DL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: nothing today?
>
>
>
> >
> > Nope. Nobody here.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of w b
evans
> > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 6:14 PM
> > To: piet discussion
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: nothing today?
> >
> >
> > Not a one? Hope I'm not bumped.
> > anyone out there?
> > walt evans
> > NX140DL
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
October 19, 2003 - November 08, 2003
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dl