Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dt

February 26, 2004 - March 21, 2004



      
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From: "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Bandsaw
Date: Feb 26, 2004
Hi all, I have an older style (more like old) 80" Sears bandsaw. Has anyone been able to figure out how to slow down this perticular band saw so it can cut metal? I have been trying to figure out how to add a "jack shaft" and a pully to gear it down but I can't figure out how to do it with the way the motor is mounted under the table. So, if anyone else has this saw I'd apreciate suggestions. Thanks Chris T. Sacramento, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
<001001c3fcf2$21412af0$4f119241@Spot>
Subject: Re: Bandsaw
Date: Feb 26, 2004
SSBoYXZlIGEgc2VhcnMgODAiICAyIHNwZWVkLiAgd2hhdCBtb2RlbCBudW1iZXIgaXMgeW91cnM/ DQoNCkRKIFZlZ2gNCk43NERWDQpNZXNhLCBBWg0Kd3d3LmltYWdlZHYuY29tL2FpcmNhbXBlcg0K DQoNCg0KLQ0KDQogIC0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0gDQogIEZyb206IENhdGRl c2lnbiANCiAgVG86IHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gDQogIFNlbnQ6IFRodXJz ZGF5LCBGZWJydWFyeSAyNiwgMjAwNCAxMDoyNCBQTQ0KICBTdWJqZWN0OiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlz dDogQmFuZHNhdw0KDQoNCiAgSGkgYWxsLA0KDQogIEkgaGF2ZSBhbiBvbGRlciBzdHlsZSAobW9y ZSBsaWtlIG9sZCkgODAiIFNlYXJzIGJhbmRzYXcuICBIYXMgYW55b25lIGJlZW4gYWJsZSB0byBm aWd1cmUgb3V0IGhvdyB0byBzbG93IGRvd24gdGhpcyBwZXJ0aWN1bGFyIGJhbmQgc2F3IHNvIGl0 IGNhbiBjdXQgbWV0YWw/ICBJIGhhdmUgYmVlbiB0cnlpbmcgdG8gZmlndXJlIG91dCBob3cgdG8g YWRkIGEgImphY2sgc2hhZnQiIGFuZCBhIHB1bGx5IHRvIGdlYXIgaXQgZG93biBidXQgSSBjYW4n dCBmaWd1cmUgb3V0IGhvdyB0byBkbyBpdCB3aXRoIHRoZSB3YXkgdGhlIG1vdG9yIGlzIG1vdW50 ZWQgdW5kZXIgdGhlIHRhYmxlLiAgU28sIGlmIGFueW9uZSBlbHNlIGhhcyB0aGlzIHNhdyBJJ2Qg YXByZWNpYXRlIHN1Z2dlc3Rpb25zLiAgDQoNCiAgVGhhbmtzDQoNCiAgQ2hyaXMgVC4NCiAgU2Fj cmFtZW50bywgQ2E ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Bandsaw
<001801c3fca9$d548daa0$1b02a8c0@WorkGroup> <001001c3fcf2$21412af0$4f119241@Spot> I assume the motor is a separate item and not built in? In other words, belt driven? If so, go get a half horse, two speed washer motor and wire it to a two way switch. There will be 1725 rpm on the high speed and 862.5 on the low. This is what I have done with my old beaver and it works just fine. If you can find the older style Speed Queen 2 speed motor, the wiring is dead simple. If it is an integral part of the saw then you're in for a lot more work. :-) Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Catdesign To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 9:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw Hi all, I have an older style (more like old) 80" Sears bandsaw. Has anyone been able to figure out how to slow down this perticular band saw so it can cut metal? I have been trying to figure out how to add a "jack shaft" and a pully to gear it down but I can't figure out how to do it with the way the motor is mounted under the table. So, if anyone else has this saw I'd apreciate suggestions. Thanks Chris T. Sacramento, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: VAHOWDY(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 27, 2004
Subject: Re: Bandsaw
Just put a smaller pully on the motor or a larger pully on the saw. Howdy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Laurits Larsen" <pietlars(at)earthlink.net>
<001001c3fcf2$21412af0$4f119241@Spot>
Subject: Re: Bandsaw
Date: Feb 27, 2004
Hi: I have a Sears 80" bandsaw too. It dates back to the 80's also. I also have a router varible speed control that I got from Harbor Freight. I got curious after your message and I tried it out on my bandsaw. It worked fine, slows the speed significantly. There is a caveat on the speed control that it is not for use on AC capacitor start motors. I noticed in a recent Harbor Freight catalog that the speed control special price (half price deal) is $12.95. I use mine occasionally on the router and it performs as it should. Hope this is useful. Lou Larsen P.S. Just finished installing the brake assemblies on my straight axle gear, (21" wheels). used 5" go cart brake drums with external brake bands; mechanical /cable system. Have the bird back on the gear now. ----- Original Message ----- From: Catdesign To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 12:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw Hi all, I have an older style (more like old) 80" Sears bandsaw. Has anyone been able to figure out how to slow down this perticular band saw so it can cut metal? I have been trying to figure out how to add a "jack shaft" and a pully to gear it down but I can't figure out how to do it with the way the motor is mounted under the table. So, if anyone else has this saw I'd apreciate suggestions. Thanks Chris T. Sacramento, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
<001001c3fcf2$21412af0$4f119241@Spot>
Subject: Re: Bandsaw
Date: Feb 27, 2004
You could try making a variable control. Get a pice of electrical cord with the male end, a steel double outlet box with cover plate, a standard wall plug and a light switch dimmer control. I used that setup to control heat on solder irons. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Catdesign To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 11:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw Hi all, I have an older style (more like old) 80" Sears bandsaw. Has anyone been able to figure out how to slow down this perticular band saw so it can cut metal? I have been trying to figure out how to add a "jack shaft" and a pully to gear it down but I can't figure out how to do it with the way the motor is mounted under the table. So, if anyone else has this saw I'd apreciate suggestions. Thanks Chris T. Sacramento, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2004
From: "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Bandsaw
I would be concerned about burning out the motor doing that. I think the jackshaft would be a preferable alternative if you can figure out how to add one satisfactorily. John John Ford john(at)indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> horzpool(at)goldengate.net Friday, February 27, 2004 10:20:34 AM >>> You could try making a variable control. Get a pice of electrical cord with the male end, a steel double outlet box with cover plate, a standard wall plug and a light switch dimmer control. I used that setup to control heat on solder irons. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Catdesign To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 11:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw Hi all, I have an older style (more like old) 80" Sears bandsaw. Has anyone been able to figure out how to slow down this perticular band saw so it can cut metal? I have been trying to figure out how to add a "jack shaft" and a pully to gear it down but I can't figure out how to do it with the way the motor is mounted under the table. So, if anyone else has this saw I'd apreciate suggestions. Thanks Chris T. Sacramento, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
Subject: Re: Bandsaw
Date: Feb 27, 2004
Another alternative would be to install a 3 phase motor with one of the new solid state variable speed controls. These things will go from near zero RPM to rated speed with the turn of a dial and still deliver full power. You would still have to change blades for metal but not all metals should be cut at the same speed anyway. Example Aluminum versus 4130 Bob B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw > > I would be concerned about burning out the motor doing that. I think > the jackshaft would be a preferable alternative if you can figure out > how to add one satisfactorily. > John > > John Ford > john(at)indstate.edu > 812-237-8542 > > > >>> horzpool(at)goldengate.net Friday, February 27, 2004 10:20:34 AM >>> > You could try making a variable control. Get a pice of electrical cord > with the male end, a steel double outlet box with cover plate, a > standard wall plug and a light switch dimmer control. I used that setup > to control heat on solder irons. > Dick N. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Catdesign > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 11:24 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw > > > Hi all, > > I have an older style (more like old) 80" Sears bandsaw. Has anyone > been able to figure out how to slow down this perticular band saw so it > can cut metal? I have been trying to figure out how to add a "jack > shaft" and a pully to gear it down but I can't figure out how to do it > with the way the motor is mounted under the table. So, if anyone else > has this saw I'd apreciate suggestions. > > Thanks > > Chris T. > Sacramento, Ca > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Bandsaw
Date: Feb 27, 2004
If the motor drive a belt one can use the motor as the jack shaft with a double pulley on the motor. I made mine with a 14" diameter out of 3/4" plywood. Then when I want to cut steel, which is infrequent, I put a v-belt between this large pulley and a small one on a second motor. Only turn on the 2nd motor. Don't forget to remove the v-belt when done so you don't damage a 2nd motor with extra high speed if your turn on the original motor. I have been doing this on my 20" bandsaw for over 30 years without a problem. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or sportpilot(at)eaa.org Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw > > I would be concerned about burning out the motor doing that. I think > the jackshaft would be a preferable alternative if you can figure out > how to add one satisfactorily. > John > > John Ford > john(at)indstate.edu > 812-237-8542 > > > >>> horzpool(at)goldengate.net Friday, February 27, 2004 10:20:34 AM >>> > You could try making a variable control. Get a pice of electrical cord > with the male end, a steel double outlet box with cover plate, a > standard wall plug and a light switch dimmer control. I used that setup > to control heat on solder irons. > Dick N. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Catdesign > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 11:24 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw > > > Hi all, > > I have an older style (more like old) 80" Sears bandsaw. Has anyone > been able to figure out how to slow down this perticular band saw so it > can cut metal? I have been trying to figure out how to add a "jack > shaft" and a pully to gear it down but I can't figure out how to do it > with the way the motor is mounted under the table. So, if anyone else > has this saw I'd apreciate suggestions. > > Thanks > > Chris T. > Sacramento, Ca > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2004
From: Michael Fisher <mfisher(at)gci.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 02/26/04
> From: "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw > > Hi all, > > I have an older style (more like old) 80" Sears bandsaw. Has > anyone been able > to figure out how to slow down this perticular band saw so it can > cut metal? > Woodworking Bandsaw Owners, You might try this before investing in modifications or a new saw. Install an old blade and try your luck at friction sawing. This is kind of scary stuff initially, with lots of noise and sparks --- not for everyone. Wear ear, eye, and hand protection. Faster band speeds work better. Installing the blade with teeth upside down is sometimes worth a try. Nervous Nellies and purists may bring up the matter of edge crack propagation in the heat affected zone. Satisfy yourselves on this point by bending a narrow test piece till it fails. That is what Bernie would have done. Happy landings, Mike Fisher ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dpaul" <dpaul(at)fidnet.com>
Subject: Axle
Date: Feb 27, 2004
Dear List, I ordered my axle (for a wood gear - spoke wheel set up). I ordered 1 1/8 X .083 Chromoly Tubing from Wag-Aero. Never having ordered Chromoly Tubing before I wasn't sure what to expect. It has arrived and it looks and feels just too light and flimsy to serve as an axle. So, did I screw up, or is this the same material that most builders are using? Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Axle
Date: Feb 28, 2004
Dave, I am using 1 1/4 x 0.120 4130. I bought the ready made axle from Aircraft spruce. Looks about the right size too. Cheers Peter. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dpaul Subject: Pietenpol-List: Axle Dear List, I ordered my axle (for a wood gear - spoke wheel set up). I ordered 1 1/8 X .083 Chromoly Tubing from Wag-Aero. Never having ordered Chromoly Tubing before I wasn't sure what to expect. It has arrived and it looks and feels just too light and flimsy to serve as an axle. So, did I screw up, or is this the same material that most builders are using? Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Wing tank side reading gauage
Date: Feb 27, 2004
Max, I would be sure that Rochester knows that in addition to it reading upside down, that it has to show full when the cork is at the position farthest from the indicator. This might not be readily obvious. Also, you may wish to see if they would be willing to make these and offer them up for sale through AS and S as there is a distinct market for them. I would also let them know that the "normal" shortest gauge is no longer offered by AS and S and they may wish to contact AS and S and find out why. I will let you know if I want some after I check a few things. Good work. I used to live in Coppell and Addision before that and always had the instention of looking up Rochester. I think US Gauge is there too. Chris Bobka Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 10:54 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tank side reading gauage In a message dated 2/25/2004 10:35:12 AM Central Standard Time, bobka(at)compuserve.com writes: Max, Can you give the p/n and the page in the 1999 AS and S catalog. I am having trouble trying to tell which one you are talking of. chris bobka Cris: 1998-1999 AS&S, pg. 152, bottom right corner of the page. P/N 05-16800. It is right under the Stearman type float gauge. This gauge is made to mount from the top down only. It is sealed from the fuel and operates magnetically. They can't tell me at customer service why it would not work if you mounted from the bottom side, but it would register opposite if you mount it from the bottom up. You can pull it up straight from the Rochester Gauge web site and it tells a little more about it. Max, Arlington, TX. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Axle
Date: Feb 27, 2004
Dave, The Flying and glider plans call out 1 1/4 X 12 GA. Chrome-Molybdenum for the axle. 12 GA. is .1045" thick, I think most guys go up to .120" rather than down to .095". 1 1/8 X .083" does sound a little light and flimsy. Mine is split axle and I chose 1 1/4 X .120". Skip I ordered my axle (for a wood gear - spoke wheel set up). I ordered 1 1/8 X .083 Chromoly Tubing from Wag-Aero. Never having ordered Chromoly Tubing before I wasn't sure what to expect. It has arrived and it looks and feels just too light and flimsy to serve as an axle. So, did I screw up, or is this the same material that most builders are using? Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Shawn Wolk" <shawnwolk(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: HIPEC again
Date: Feb 27, 2004
There is a very good article of a large Jodel variant...FALCONAR F12A finished in HIPEC with NO ribstitching in this months Custom Planes Magazine. This aircraft wing loading is 12.857 lbs. sq.ft. at gross. Much more than any Pietenpol. Shawn Wolk Winnipeg, MB C-FRAZ Pietenpol Aircamper C-GZOT Skyhopper 2 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Axle
Date: Feb 27, 2004
I used 1 1/8" x .100 and was not happy with the amount of bow in the axle. I switched it to a 1 1/4" x .120 Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: dpaul To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 7:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Axle Dear List, I ordered my axle (for a wood gear - spoke wheel set up). I ordered 1 1/8 X .083 Chromoly Tubing from Wag-Aero. Never having ordered Chromoly Tubing before I wasn't sure what to expect. It has arrived and it looks and feels just too light and flimsy to serve as an axle. So, did I screw up, or is this the same material that most builders are using? Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Magnetic gauge
Date: Feb 27, 2004
The key word in Max's post is that these are "magnetic". I beleive the Rochester gauge uses a magnet at the end of the spiral rod. The poles of this magnet align with another magnet that is attached to the indicating card. The magnet on the spiral is in the gas. Then there is the aluminum of the housing and then the card is "outside" of this housing in the air, balanced on a point as is a compass. There is no way for fuel to leak out ever! Hence, the "hermetically sealed" statement. The magnetic field carries through the aluminum of the housing to enable this. Once the poles of the two magnets align, they don't move out of alignment at all. It remains rigid in the magnetic flux. This is the way the fuel gauges in the P-51 Mustang and the PT-19/22/26 worked. Look at one if you ever get the chance. Max, confirm this is the way they are constructed. I am quite sure from the description that this is the case. If it is indeed true then it is the way to go. These would be the most superior of the float style gauges to use! chris bobka ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Davis To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 2:48 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tank side reading gauage We may need 6. Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 11:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing tank side reading gauage Pieters: I have been visiting with Rochester Gauges here in Dallas about turning the cylinder inside their spiral action fuel gauge upside down so it will register fuel quantity correctly in a center section wing tank application. This is a precision magnetic gauge with a float traveling on a spiral rod to record fuel level on hermetically sealed side-reading dial marked E,1/4,1/2,3/4,F. All aluminum construction. Housing has 1-1/2" NPT male threads for connection to threaded bushing (they sell aluminum bushings and flanges for this gauge as well). Length "L" 6", Float Travel 4-1/4". In the 1999 AS&S catalogue they sold a top mounted one for $39.00. They manufacture them here in Dallas. If I can talk them into making one that will mount on the bottom of a tank, instead of only from the top, how many of you would be interested in purchasing one. They have a $125.00 minimum order for PO's. I have a tax I.D. # and could purchase them direct, if enough of you are interested. They are supposed to call me back and let me know if they can or will make this gauge as per my request. I thought it might have a greater influence on them if they could sell more than one. We have not got a price yet, or if they will do it, but, I don't expect it would be a lot higher than the 1999 AS&S price on the similarly built top mount fuel gauge. If any of you are interested let me know back ASAP. Bargaining power will be much better with numbers, I'm sure. Thanks, Max Arlington, TX. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Bandsaw
Date: Feb 27, 2004
Three phase? You running three phase on single phase? Chris Bobka ----- Original Message ----- From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw > > > Another alternative would be to install a 3 phase motor with one of the new > solid state variable speed controls. > These things will go from near zero RPM to rated speed with the turn of a > dial and still deliver full power. You would still have to change blades > for metal but not all metals should be cut at the same speed anyway. > Example Aluminum versus 4130 > Bob B. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> > To: > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:40 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw > > > > > > I would be concerned about burning out the motor doing that. I think > > the jackshaft would be a preferable alternative if you can figure out > > how to add one satisfactorily. > > John > > > > John Ford > > john(at)indstate.edu > > 812-237-8542 > > > > > > >>> horzpool(at)goldengate.net Friday, February 27, 2004 10:20:34 AM >>> > > You could try making a variable control. Get a pice of electrical cord > > with the male end, a steel double outlet box with cover plate, a > > standard wall plug and a light switch dimmer control. I used that setup > > to control heat on solder irons. > > Dick N. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Catdesign > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 11:24 PM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have an older style (more like old) 80" Sears bandsaw. Has anyone > > been able to figure out how to slow down this perticular band saw so it > > can cut metal? I have been trying to figure out how to add a "jack > > shaft" and a pully to gear it down but I can't figure out how to do it > > with the way the motor is mounted under the table. So, if anyone else > > has this saw I'd apreciate suggestions. > > > > Thanks > > > > Chris T. > > Sacramento, Ca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Bandsaw
<003201c3fd4f$4c1bf450$9070fea9@VALUEDCB7D4C82> <01ae01c3fdac$e8d0b4e0$0101a8c0@domain> Again back to those big commercial washers. Those that are not on an inverter drive and in a single phase location use humungus capacitors to "convert" the motors to single phase. There have been all kinds of systems used over the years. An article and assorted letters on this very subject appeared in Fine Woodworking years ago. I never had any need or interest in figuring out how that worked but it does. If you really want to know find your nearest Wascomat or Unimat service place and ask their techs. Clif > > Three phase? You running three phase on single phase? > > Chris Bobka ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Bandsaw
<001801c3fca9$d548daa0$1b02a8c0@WorkGroup> <001001c3fcf2$21412af0$4f119241@Spot> <002901c3fd45$42347250$0600a8c0@laptop> This won't work. These motors depend on the current CYCLES not voltage for speed. At North American 60 cycle current you get 1725 rpm. Using the same motor in Europe at 50 cycles gives you 5/6 X 1725 rpm. The only way around this is an inverter drive which takes in the 60 cycle, turns it into DC, then converts it back to variable cycle voltage from 0 up to whatever the designer needs for the application. This is now used in industrial washing machines from 18 lb up through 30,50, 75. 125 175 for places like hospitals and hotels. Electric trains and monorails use huge inverters. The motor in your hand drill is a brush motor that uses variable voltage. It doesn't depend on the cycles at all. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 7:20 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw You could try making a variable control. Get a pice of electrical cord with the male end, a steel double outlet box with cover plate, a standard wall plug and a light switch dimmer control. I used that setup to control heat on solder irons. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Catdesign To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 11:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw Hi all, I have an older style (more like old) 80" Sears bandsaw. Has anyone been able to figure out how to slow down this perticular band saw so it can cut metal? I have been trying to figure out how to add a "jack shaft" and a pully to gear it down but I can't figure out how to do it with the way the motor is mounted under the table. So, if anyone else has this saw I'd apreciate suggestions. Thanks Chris T. Sacramento, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Axle
All the plans I've got specify 1 1/2" tubing. That's the 1932 Fly+Glide Piet, 1933 F+G Scout split axle and my plans from Don Pietenpol. Where's this reference to 1 1/4"? My copies came from EAA 10 years ago. Did they make a change somewhere along the line? So, Richard, I assume your 1 1/4" is holding up fine? I would rather use that if it does. I could make it fit my wheels more easily. Clif Dave, The Flying and glider plans call out 1 1/4 X 12 GA. Chrome-Molybdenum for the axle. 12 GA. is .1045" thick, I think most guys go up to .120" rather than down to .095". 1 1/8 X .083" does sound a little light and flimsy. Mine is split axle and I chose 1 1/4 X .120". Skip ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Axle
Date: Feb 28, 2004
Clif, Your right. F&g 1 1/2 X 12 GA. The 1934 plans split axle 1 1/2 X 10 GA. (.130") My landing gear is a combination of 1934 plans, Grega, and Wag Aero Sport trainer, because I wanted wider tread than Piets 56". Wag Aero has the 1 1/4 X .120". Skip, reading better with morning light and stronger glasses. All the plans I've got specify 1 1/2" tubing. That's the 1932 Fly+Glide Piet, 1933 F+G Scout split axle and my plans from Don Pietenpol. Where's this reference to 1 1/4"? My copies came from EAA 10 years ago. Did they make a change somewhere along the line? Clif ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 28, 2004
Subject: Re: Bandsaw
Chris T.......I subscribe to a magazine called "The Home Shop Machinist" which is published bi-monthly. The Jan/Feb 2004 issue has an article on converting a wood-cutting bandsaw to a metal-cutter. The conversion he describes involves the addition of a jackshaft and idler pulley and may be too involved for your interests, but he has some good data on saw blade speeds. This is kind of an obscure publication and you might have difficulty finding a copy. If youre really interested, contact me off-net and I'll zerox a copy for you and send it by snail mail. Carl Vought ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
<01ae01c3fdac$e8d0b4e0$0101a8c0@domain>
Subject: three phase from single phase was Bandsaw
Date: Feb 28, 2004
Chris, The answer is not exactly, today there are a number of low cost variable frequency solid state single phase to three phase converters on the market. I run a small metal lathe with such a beast. For example if I'm drilling and reaming a number of parts using the three jaw chuck and a drill chuck in the tailstock. Being very lazy I don't like to change belt pulleys all the time. So now I can change speed with the twist of a knob. Three phase motors are a little cheaper than single phase and I got the converter from ACTECH www.actechdrives.com is their web site. I have no connection with this company and if anyone is interested in knowing more please contact me off line. Bob Bailey > Three phase? You running three phase on single phase? > > Chris Bobka ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 28, 2004
Subject: bobka(at)compuserve.com
In a message dated 2/27/2004 7:49:48 PM Central Standard Time, bobka(at)compuserve.com writes: > Max, > > I would be sure that Rochester knows that in addition to it reading upside > down, that it has to show full when the cork is at the position farthest from > the indicator. This might not be readily obvious. > > Also, you may wish to see if they would be willing to make these and offer > them up for sale through AS and S as there is a distinct market for them. > > I would also let them know that the "normal" shortest gauge is no longer > offered by AS and S and they may wish to contact AS and S and find out why. > > I will let you know if I want some after I check a few things. > > Good work. I used to live in Coppell and Addision before that and always > had the instention of looking up Rochester. I think US Gauge is there too. > > Chris Bobka Chris, The gauge reading backwards was the first concern I had (E for F etc..). My solution for this was to simply turn the cylinder upside down. AS&S would not even talk to me about trying to special order the 6" gauge that they don' carry anymore, let alone take the initiative to pick up the phone and ask about designing an inverted fuel gauge of the same type. I do not intend to help AS&S increase sales due to this fact. The people at Rochester have not been much more help. If the computer says it cannot be done, these people now days just say "It can't be done" and except it -- and move on to the next call and the next coffee break. There is no brain power involved. It is scary to me; how does anything get accomplished in this country anymore? At this point, I have taken the initiative done all of the leg work/research and will market the item myself. If Rochester doesn't come through, I will take your suggestion and go visit with US Gauge. Please feel free if you have any more question or concerns, Max Davis Arlington, TX. 817.516.1116 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 28, 2004
Subject: Re: Magnetic gauge
In a message dated 2/27/2004 9:34:54 PM Central Standard Time, bobka(at)compuserve.com writes: > The key word in Max's post is that these are "magnetic". > > I beleive the Rochester gauge uses a magnet at the end of the spiral rod. > The poles of this magnet align with another magnet that is attached to the > indicating card. The magnet on the spiral is in the gas. Then there is the > aluminum of the housing and then the card is "outside" of this housing in the > air, balanced on a point as is a compass. There is no way for fuel to leak out > ever! Hence, the "hermetically sealed" statement. The magnetic field > carries through the aluminum of the housing to enable this. Once the poles of the > two magnets align, they don't move out of alignment at all. It remains > rigid in the magnetic flux. > > This is the way the fuel gauges in the P-51 Mustang and the PT-19/22/26 > worked. Look at one if you ever get the chance. > > Max, confirm this is the way they are constructed. I am quite sure from the > description that this is the case. If it is indeed true then it is the way > to go. These would be the most superior of the float style gauges to use! > > chris bobka > Chris, You have described this gauge perfectly, and also why I am so interested in it. Max, Arlington, TX. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
<001001c3fcf2$21412af0$4f119241@Spot> <002901c3fd45$42347250$0600a8c0@laptop> <00cc01c3fdcf$5ba20bf0$96715118@dawsonaviation>
Subject: Re: Bandsaw
Date: Feb 28, 2004
Exactly! The brush type motor in a drill or "Skill" saw are called "universal " motors and can be run on AC or DC. only voltage dependent. Only reason the modern day ones cant be run on DC is the variable speed trigger is a circuit by itself and can't deal with the DC. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find an old style 1/2" drill at a flea market and run it thru a rheostat, and somehow run it through the existing motor walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 2:49 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw <<<< The motor in your hand drill is a brush motor that uses variable voltage. It doesn't depend on the cycles at all.>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 7:20 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw You could try making a variable control. Get a pice of electrical cord with the male end, a steel double outlet box with cover plate, a standard wall plug and a light switch dimmer control. I used that setup to control heat on solder irons. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Catdesign To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 11:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw Hi all, I have an older style (more like old) 80" Sears bandsaw. Has anyone been able to figure out how to slow down this perticular band saw so it can cut metal? I have been trying to figure out how to add a "jack shaft" and a pully to gear it down but I can't figure out how to do it with the way the motor is mounted under the table. So, if anyone else has this saw I'd apreciate suggestions. Thanks Chris T. Sacramento, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: bandsaw
Date: Feb 28, 2004
You could just get a Dayton AC/DC variable speed motor. Comes with its own converter and is reversible too. Available in 1 1/2 hp rating, 0-2500rpm. Thats what I did on my Sears 80" bandsaw. Salvaged the motor off some junk. Dennis Engelkenjohn ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2004
From: Jim Cooper <blugoos1(at)direcway.com>
Subject: bandsaw gear reduction
Hi, Chris T. My partner, Tom Schildt, has figured out a neat way to achieve the necessary reduction to cut 4130 steel on a Delta 14" bandsaw. We purchased a wet-dry grinder from Harbor Freight with a 1/3hp(?) electric motor for less than $40, (item #35098). The dry grinder rpm is 3450 and the wet grinder rpm is 160. The cost of a gear box new that would give a similar reduction is almost $400. To achieve the blade speed of approximately 270'/min. we had to further reduce the rpm by about 1/2, so we replaced the wet grinder wheel with a 2" pulley, and connected it with a 1/2" belt to the 4" pulley on the lower 14" bandsaw wheel. The bandsaw now has 2 motors which we will operate separately - one is the regular 1hp motor rigged for cutting wood, and the other is the 1/3hp motor rigged for cutting 4130 steel. We haven't yet hooked all this up so we don't know how it will work. It should be done in a couple of weeks. If you have any questions please call at 337/937-6116 or email me at bl ugoos1@d lps. Jim Cooper ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Stapelberg" <norshel(at)mweb.co.za>
Subject: Bandsaw
Date: Feb 28, 2004
I am using a frequency drive on my drill press, motor is a three phase 0.75 Kw ( 1Hp) 380/220 volt, cant remember if I got it connected in star or delta will have open it and check, the drive is a single phase input and three phase 220volt output. Please note that in South Africa we use 220volt for domestic use. The drive can also be controlled via a variable resistor for different frequencies (speeds) I use pre-programmed speeds, found that under 15Hz the current is to high. I also have one on my three phase compressor programmed to 50Hz. So far no problems benn about 5 years in use. Norman Stapelberg ZS-VJA (rebuilding) South Africa -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw This won't work. These motors depend on the current CYCLES not voltage for speed. At North American 60 cycle current you get 1725 rpm. Using the same motor in Europe at 50 cycles gives you 5/6 X 1725 rpm. The only way around this is an inverter drive which takes in the 60 cycle, turns it into DC, then converts it back to variable cycle voltage from 0 up to whatever the designer needs for the application. This is now used in industrial washing machines from 18 lb up through 30,50, 75. 125 175 for places like hospitals and hotels. Electric trains and monorails use huge inverters. The motor in your hand drill is a brush motor that uses variable voltage. It doesn't depend on the cycles at all. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil <mailto:horzpool(at)goldengate.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw You could try making a variable control. Get a pice of electrical cord with the male end, a steel double outlet box with cover plate, a standard wall plug and a light switch dimmer control. I used that setup to control heat on solder irons. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Catdesign <mailto:catdesign(at)intergate.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw Hi all, I have an older style (more like old) 80" Sears bandsaw. Has anyone been able to figure out how to slow down this perticular band saw so it can cut metal? I have been trying to figure out how to add a "jack shaft" and a pully to gear it down but I can't figure out how to do it with the way the motor is mounted under the table. So, if anyone else has this saw I'd apreciate suggestions. Thanks Chris T. Sacramento, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Axle
Mistrakes! We don't make no misteaks!........oops! Clif :-) :-) I really am doing something on my Piet. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=27 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cinda Gadd To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 4:10 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Axle Clif, Your right. F&g 1 1/2 X 12 GA. The 1934 plans split axle 1 1/2 X 10 GA. (.130") My landing gear is a combination of 1934 plans, Grega, and Wag Aero Sport trainer, because I wanted wider tread than Piets 56". Wag Aero has the 1 1/4 X .120". Skip, reading better with morning light and stronger glasses. All the plans I've got specify 1 1/2" tubing. That's the 1932 Fly+Glide Piet, 1933 F+G Scout split axle and my plans from Don Pietenpol. Where's this reference to 1 1/4"? My copies came from EAA 10 years ago. Did they make a change somewhere along the line? Clif ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Axle
Date: Feb 28, 2004
Nice looking work Clif. I especially like your airspeed emblem. Weav ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 10:09 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Axle Mistrakes! We don't make no misteaks!........oops! Clif :-) :-) I really am doing something on my Piet. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID27 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 28, 2004
Subject: Spiral Fuel Gauge Interest Group
Group: Thanks for your quick response. I visited, in person, with a customer service rep. and an engineer yesterday about the inverted spiral fuel gauge. They have experimented a little with the idea and think they can make the adjustments for us without too much retooling. This is a large company and a very limited production run on an item they have never had a request for. In order for them to produce the item, I will have to purchase at least 10 units at a time. In order to do this, I will make the purchase through my family's hardware store in Silverton, Texas, once they've committed to manufacturing them. I am supposed to hear back from them on Monday or Tuesday of next week. The cost should be about $45 per unit plus tax and shipping charges to your destination. I will ship them out to you on demand. Please email back to confirm your order. Max L. Davis Arlington, TX. 817.516.1116 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Re: Spiral Fuel Gauge Interest Group
Date: Feb 28, 2004
Max, I am sorry I didn't respond to your request for a picture. I just got a chance to sit down and read a week's worth of email. You have seen the gauge by now and it has been described very well already by Chris and others. I can see no reason it won't work, if the readout can be reversed. However, I would like to throw out a thought and see if others have had a similar concern or have a solution. The deepest part of the wing tank is usually somewhere about 1/2 way between the front spar and rear spar. It would seem that is where the gauge has to go. Here is my concern. When the passenger is getting in and out their head and back come pretty close to the bottom of the center section. I have not figured out where to place the gauge so it didn't take a chunk out of a skull or back. I like the Stearman gauge but have rejected it for this reason. I hope to fly with a passenger tomorrow and will closely observe how they get in and out vis a vis the bottom of the wing and report back. If someone has a thought on how to overcome this I would love to have this upside down gauge on mine too. Ted PS my tank is not 6" deep. I assume that 6" is measured from the very bottom of the spiral to the very top of the gauge that is outside of the tank and that only 4 1/2" is inside the tank? ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 3:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spiral Fuel Gauge Interest Group Group: Thanks for your quick response. I visited, in person, with a customer service rep. and an engineer yesterday about the inverted spiral fuel gauge. They have experimented a little with the idea and think they can make the adjustments for us without too much retooling. This is a large company and a very limited production run on an item they have never had a request for. In order for them to produce the item, I will have to purchase at least 10 units at a time. In order to do this, I will make the purchase through my family's hardware store in Silverton, Texas, once they've committed to manufacturing them. I am supposed to hear back from them on Monday or Tuesday of next week. The cost should be about $45 per unit plus tax and shipping charges to your destination. I will ship them out to you on demand. Please email back to confirm your order. Max L. Davis Arlington, TX. 817.516.1116 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 28, 2004
Subject: Re: Spiral Fuel Gauge Interest Group
In a message dated 2/28/2004 9:21:49 PM Central Standard Time, nfn00979(at)naples.net writes: > However, I would like to throw out a thought and see if others have had a > similar concern or have a solution. The deepest part of the wing tank is > usually somewhere about 1/2 way between the front spar and rear spar. It would > seem that is where the gauge has to go. Here is my concern. When the > passenger is getting in and out their head and back come pretty close to the bottom > of the center section. I have not figured out where to place the gauge so it > didn't take a chunk out of a skull or back. I like the Stearman gauge but > have rejected it for this reason. Ted: The gauge is six inches overall. An inch and a half or so is outside of the tank (the readable part). AS&S has a coupling and a flange just below the gauges in question that would allow you to adjust the height of the gauge to some extent. My tank is flat on the bottom, so I could have a larger fuel capacity. It is probably 4-1/4" in the rear and probably 5" or 5-1/2" in the middle. I would mount this gauge or a stearman type over to the side (right side) so as to be out of the way and as far back as possible. I personally, am concerned primarily about satisfying the FAA rules for a gauge, having a safe gauge that cannot leak or be broken off by an accident and knowing where or when "empty" is. Most of the stearman type gauges in current use on Piets, is as close to the right rear cabane as is allowable; from what I have seen. At any rate, this gauge does not hang down near as far as a 6" stearman type. Max ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Waytogopiet(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 29, 2004
Subject: Re: Spiral Fuel Gauge Interest Group
In a message dated 2/28/2004 10:11:14 PM Central Standard Time, Andimaxd(at)aol.com writes: I like the Stearman gauge but have rejected it for this reason. Max My Stearman gauge was mounted just forward of the front windscreen. If I were to use the magnetic unit I would like to use the existing fitting which is welded into the tank bottom. It is a 3/4" female NPT. There is about 4-3/4 " inside the tank at that point ( I will have to take an exact measurement. If an adapter is used,there may be a bit more clearance at the top. Do you believe my existing Stearman mount could be used ? Don ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: HIPEC again
I was given some old magazines, and found an article on Hipec from the early 80's, it is shown in Hipec advertising from 2003, still original covering and paint. A pal came up with a great idea, we are going to rig a test section, and mount it on a luggage reack on his truck, and abuse it to death, inlcuding making rips and tears, and see if we can get the fabric to ballon and part company. From the static test pieces I have seen, I doubt we will be able to cause separation without destroying the wood. We will also make a test rib, and try to pull it apart and measure the force required. Surprised the Jodel didn't go with ribstitching, as they do recommend it for wingloading in excess of 8-9 lbs. > Shawn Wolk wrote: > > There is a very good article of a large Jodel variant...FALCONAR > F12A finished in HIPEC with NO ribstitching in this months Custom > Planes Magazine. This aircraft wing loading is 12.857 lbs. sq.ft. at > gross. Much more than any Pietenpol. > Shawn Wolk > Winnipeg, MB > C-FRAZ Pietenpol Aircamper > C-GZOT Skyhopper 2 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
<001001c3fcf2$21412af0$4f119241@Spot>
Subject: Re: Bandsaw
Date: Feb 29, 2004
Chris, I know you asked about slowing down the bandsaw. I thought I would add a possible alternative. Use it as is. I have the same bandsaw. I wanted to get started on cutting out metal fittings. I just used the wood cutting blade that was on it at the time. I was shocked when it worked. I have since cut ALL of my metal fittings using the band saw at full speed with either a wood cutting blade or a metal cutting blade. I look back now and wonder why I wasted time trying to figure out how to make something to slow it down. The only caution I give is to make sure the saw is cleaned out after cutting wood and before cutting metal. Otherwise the sparks from cutting metal might cause a fire with the sawdust. Hope this helps someone. Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: Catdesign To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 12:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bandsaw Hi all, I have an older style (more like old) 80" Sears bandsaw. Has anyone been able to figure out how to slow down this perticular band saw so it can cut metal? I have been trying to figure out how to add a "jack shaft" and a pully to gear it down but I can't figure out how to do it with the way the motor is mounted under the table. So, if anyone else has this saw I'd apreciate suggestions. Thanks Chris T. Sacramento, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: bought a GN-1 !
Date: Mar 01, 2004
well... I did it again. I picked up another nearly finished GN-1. I did the same thing back in April of 2002. On that one I pulled the control stick assembly, some turnbuckles, and various other hardware and then sold the rest for a little more than I paid for it.. I basically got parts for "free" that way. Anyways, I'm eating breakfast at the airport restaurant on Sunday and afterwards I decided to take a drive on the ramp and around the hangars. The weather was beautiful and a drive on the ramp checking out the planes seemed like a great idea. As I near the hangars I am thinking to myself... "ya know... you never see a Piet in a hangar with someone working on it" they're rare out here. Well.. no sooner had I thought that I round a corner and much to my amazement there is a craft sitting there looking very much like a Piet. I pull up to it and and I'll be damned if it's not a GN-1! I get out and take a look and I see a "for sale" sign on it. The gentleman who owns it comes out of his hangar and we chat. He picked up the project last year and intended to finish it but has now changed his mind. He never did much to it and it's still in the same state is was when he bought it. I look over the workmanship and I am impressed. Very nice work. Some areas are kinda iffy, but overall you could tell a good craftsman had put his time into it. So now I'm thinking "I could sure use them wings!" Having those wings would cut my building time down about 6-9 months. The wings are about 90% complete. Just need leading and trailing edge aluminum and ailerons. They have the drag-anti drag wires in place and it's trammeled and ready for final assembly. The fuse contained a J-3 cowl, J-3 engine mount for A-65, J-3 Fuel tank, J-3 landing gear with cleveland brakes, Maule tailwheel, complete control stick assembly. I'm interested but I'm guessing the guy is probably wanting about $4,000 for it all. I ask him anyway..... he names a price I absolutley cannot refuse. So.... on Wednesday I'm going to pick it up. He lives about 15 minutes away from me so it ought to be simple to move over. I'm going to use the wings and J-3 Fuel tank and maybe some other misc items.. I'll probably sell the fuse/tail feathers and remaining parts. This has accelerated my project by almost a year. The only draw back and issue I'm having a problem with is I will not have built my entire plane.... am I "selling out" by doing this? I feel guilty that I'll be using someone elses time/labor to get my maching in the air....so I'm thinking that I'll use these new wings for now and then when I want a little project I'll make my wings and then switch over.... but in the meantime I'll have a flying machine much sooner. gimme some feedback. DJ www.imagedv.com/aircamper _ = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: bought a GN-1 !
<4012B457.CBE0EBFC(at)shaw.ca> DJ-- in no way are you 'selling out ' by using wings that another built ! No way hose. You still will have way, way, way, more labor into your GN-1 than some of these fast-build or 'builder assisted' programs that are really kind of a joke to qualify for the 51% rule. Doesn't matter--I'm just glad to see another Piet or Grega taking wing. Excellent move. Look at how much work you've put into your engine conversion alone ? You still have fabric and painting left too which to me makes it yours--personalizes it. I started with a fuselage skeleton that had changed hands over the years and a runout 65 engine with no logs. I even bought a set of wing ribs from a guy that had bought them from Charlie Ruebeck. I had the same misgivings that you are having but after completing the project I realized that the majority of it was done by me. Go for it ! PS-- finally got to fly over the weekend. Felt great. Walt E....any flying in NJ for you ? Hope so. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: bought a GN-1 !
Date: Mar 01, 2004
Hey DJ, Having built all the structure (which is the most fun part of building a plane - that and fabric covering, in my opinion) in my Piet, I can tell you that doing all the systems work and making everything fit is still plenty enough work for you to be able to say "I built this airplane". At least, as long as the FAA or DAR concur that you still did 51% of the work. Go for it. Jack Phillips Finally getting weather warm enough to spray some Poly Spray. It's been a long winter. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Subject: Pietenpol-List: bought a GN-1 ! well... I did it again. I picked up another nearly finished GN-1. I did the same thing back in April of 2002. On that one I pulled the control stick assembly, some turnbuckles, and various other hardware and then sold the rest for a little more than I paid for it.. I basically got parts for "free" that way. Anyways, I'm eating breakfast at the airport restaurant on Sunday and afterwards I decided to take a drive on the ramp and around the hangars. The weather was beautiful and a drive on the ramp checking out the planes seemed like a great idea. As I near the hangars I am thinking to myself... "ya know... you never see a Piet in a hangar with someone working on it" they're rare out here. Well.. no sooner had I thought that I round a corner and much to my amazement there is a craft sitting there looking very much like a Piet. I pull up to it and and I'll be damned if it's not a GN-1! I get out and take a look and I see a "for sale" sign on it. The gentleman who owns it comes out of his hangar and we chat. He picked up the project last year and intended to finish it but has now changed his mind. He never did much to it and it's still in the same state is was when he bought it. I look over the workmanship and I am impressed. Very nice work. Some areas are kinda iffy, but overall you could tell a good craftsman had put his time into it. So now I'm thinking "I could sure use them wings!" Having those wings would cut my building time down about 6-9 months. The wings are about 90% complete. Just need leading and trailing edge aluminum and ailerons. They have the drag-anti drag wires in place and it's trammeled and ready for final assembly. The fuse contained a J-3 cowl, J-3 engine mount for A-65, J-3 Fuel tank, J-3 landing gear with cleveland brakes, Maule tailwheel, complete control stick assembly. I'm interested but I'm guessing the guy is probably wanting about $4,000 for it all. I ask him anyway..... he names a price I absolutley cannot refuse. So.... on Wednesday I'm going to pick it up. He lives about 15 minutes away from me so it ought to be simple to move over. I'm going to use the wings and J-3 Fuel tank and maybe some other misc items.. I'll probably sell the fuse/tail feathers and remaining parts. This has accelerated my project by almost a year. The only draw back and issue I'm having a problem with is I will not have built my entire plane.... am I "selling out" by doing this? I feel guilty that I'll be using someone elses time/labor to get my maching in the air....so I'm thinking that I'll use these new wings for now and then when I want a little project I'll make my wings and then switch over.... but in the meantime I'll have a flying machine much sooner. gimme some feedback. DJ www.imagedv.com/aircamper <http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper> _ This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: bought a GN-1 !
Date: Mar 01, 2004
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Date: Mar 01, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: bought a GN-1 !
<002201c3ffb3$cc939a00$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com> Yes I think you sold out. pack everything up and send it to me, I will clear your conscience for free! OK you can cover the shipping if it makes you feel better!! Way to score DJ, hope to meet at a fly-in sometime soon!! PS, just got a Subaru EA-81 with reductions drive 2:1, complete firewall fwd pkg, with a spare engine!! Have to uncrate the goods!! > DJ Vegh wrote: > > well... I did it again. I picked up another nearly finished GN-1. > I did the same thing back in April of 2002. On that one I pulled the > control stick assembly, some turnbuckles, and various other hardware > and then sold the rest for a little more than I paid for it.. I > basically got parts for "free" that way. > > Anyways, I'm eating breakfast at the airport restaurant on Sunday and > afterwards I decided to take a drive on the ramp and around the > hangars. The weather was beautiful and a drive on the ramp checking > out the planes seemed like a great idea. As I near the hangars I am > thinking to myself... "ya know... you never see a Piet in a hangar > with someone working on it" they're rare out here. > > Well.. no sooner had I thought that I round a corner and much to my > amazement there is a craft sitting there looking very much like a > Piet. I pull up to it and and I'll be damned if it's not a GN-1! I > get out and take a look and I see a "for sale" sign on it. The > gentleman who owns it comes out of his hangar and we chat. He picked > up the project last year and intended to finish it but has now changed > his mind. He never did much to it and it's still in the same state is > was when he bought it. > > I look over the workmanship and I am impressed. Very nice work. Some > areas are kinda iffy, but overall you could tell a good craftsman had > put his time into it. > > So now I'm thinking "I could sure use them wings!" Having those wings > would cut my building time down about 6-9 months. The wings are about > 90% complete. Just need leading and trailing edge aluminum and > ailerons. They have the drag-anti drag wires in place and it's > trammeled and ready for final assembly. > > The fuse contained a J-3 cowl, J-3 engine mount for A-65, J-3 Fuel > tank, J-3 landing gear with cleveland brakes, Maule tailwheel, > complete control stick assembly. > > I'm interested but I'm guessing the guy is probably wanting about > $4,000 for it all. I ask him anyway..... he names a price I > absolutley cannot refuse. > > So.... on Wednesday I'm going to pick it up. He lives about 15 minutes > away from me so it ought to be simple to move over. I'm going to use > the wings and J-3 Fuel tank and maybe some other misc items.. I'll > probably sell the fuse/tail feathers and remaining parts. > > This has accelerated my project by almost a year. The only draw back > and issue I'm having a problem with is I will not have built my entire > plane.... am I "selling out" by doing this? I feel guilty that I'll > be using someone elses time/labor to get my maching in the air....so > I'm thinking that I'll use these new wings for now and then when I > want a little project I'll make my wings and then switch over.... but > in the meantime I'll have a flying machine much sooner. > > gimme some feedback. > > DJ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > _ > > > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for > viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting > provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit > . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: bought a GN-1 !
Date: Mar 01, 2004
The rule is not 51%, The FARs state that more than half must be amateur built and there can be any number of amateurs taking part. I know, I know! Everyone uses the 51% number but it isn't in the FARs. Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or sportpilot(at)eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 5:28 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: bought a GN-1 ! Hey DJ, Having built all the structure (which is the most fun part of building a plane - that and fabric covering, in my opinion) in my Piet, I can tell you that doing all the systems work and making everything fit is still plenty enough work for you to be able to say "I built this airplane". At least, as long as the FAA or DAR concur that you still did 51% of the work. Go for it. Jack Phillips Finally getting weather warm enough to spray some Poly Spray. It's been a long winter. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 12:37 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: bought a GN-1 ! well... I did it again. I picked up another nearly finished GN-1. I did the same thing back in April of 2002. On that one I pulled the control stick assembly, some turnbuckles, and various other hardware and then sold the rest for a little more than I paid for it.. I basically got parts for "free" that way. Anyways, I'm eating breakfast at the airport restaurant on Sunday and afterwards I decided to take a drive on the ramp and around the hangars. The weather was beautiful and a drive on the ramp checking out the planes seemed like a great idea. As I near the hangars I am thinking to myself... "ya know... you never see a Piet in a hangar with someone working on it" they're rare out here. Well.. no sooner had I thought that I round a corner and much to my amazement there is a craft sitting there looking very much like a Piet. I pull up to it and and I'll be damned if it's not a GN-1! I get out and take a look and I see a "for sale" sign on it. The gentleman who owns it comes out of his hangar and we chat. He picked up the project last year and intended to finish it but has now changed his mind. He never did much to it and it's still in the same state is was when he bought it. I look over the workmanship and I am impressed. Very nice work. Some areas are kinda iffy, but overall you could tell a good craftsman had put his time into it. So now I'm thinking "I could sure use them wings!" Having those wings would cut my building time down about 6-9 months. The wings are about 90% complete. Just need leading and trailing edge aluminum and ailerons. They have the drag-anti drag wires in place and it's trammeled and ready for final assembly. The fuse contained a J-3 cowl, J-3 engine mount for A-65, J-3 Fuel tank, J-3 landing gear with cleveland brakes, Maule tailwheel, complete control stick assembly. I'm interested but I'm guessing the guy is probably wanting about $4,000 for it all. I ask him anyway..... he names a price I absolutley cannot refuse. So.... on Wednesday I'm going to pick it up. He lives about 15 minutes away from me so it ought to be simple to move over. I'm going to use the wings and J-3 Fuel tank and maybe some other misc items.. I'll probably sell the fuse/tail feathers and remaining parts. This has accelerated my project by almost a year. The only draw back and issue I'm having a problem with is I will not have built my entire plane.... am I "selling out" by doing this? I feel guilty that I'll be using someone elses time/labor to get my maching in the air....so I'm thinking that I'll use these new wings for now and then when I want a little project I'll make my wings and then switch over.... but in the meantime I'll have a flying machine much sooner. gimme some feedback. DJ www.imagedv.com/aircamper _ This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: bobka(at)compuserve.com
Date: Mar 01, 2004
Max, You can put me down for two. Thanks for doing all the leg work. You are outstanding! Chris Bobka Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 7:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: bobka(at)compuserve.com In a message dated 2/27/2004 7:49:48 PM Central Standard Time, bobka(at)compuserve.com writes: Max, I would be sure that Rochester knows that in addition to it reading upside down, that it has to show full when the cork is at the position farthest from the indicator. This might not be readily obvious. Also, you may wish to see if they would be willing to make these and offer them up for sale through AS and S as there is a distinct market for them. I would also let them know that the "normal" shortest gauge is no longer offered by AS and S and they may wish to contact AS and S and find out why. I will let you know if I want some after I check a few things. Good work. I used to live in Coppell and Addision before that and always had the instention of looking up Rochester. I think US Gauge is there too. Chris Bobka Chris, The gauge reading backwards was the first concern I had (E for F etc..). My solution for this was to simply turn the cylinder upside down. AS&S would not even talk to me about trying to special order the 6" gauge that they don' carry anymore, let alone take the initiative to pick up the phone and ask about designing an inverted fuel gauge of the same type. I do not intend to help AS&S increase sales due to this fact. The people at Rochester have not been much more help. If the computer says it cannot be done, these people now days just say "It can't be done" and except it -- and move on to the next call and the next coffee break. There is no brain power involved. It is scary to me; how does anything get accomplished in this country anymore? At this point, I have taken the initiative done all of the leg work/research and will market the item myself. If Rochester doesn't come through, I will take your suggestion and go visit with US Gauge. Please feel free if you have any more question or concerns, Max Davis Arlington, TX. 817.516.1116 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 01, 2004
Subject: c/s fuel gauge
Chris: I visited with them again today and I should have the prototype by tomorrow afternoon. I plan on mounting it in a tank and sending out some pictures. It promises to be a really neat application, I was not going to go to Brodhead this year, but I may have to now. I have committed to buying ten at a time. Max ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: c/s fuel gauge
Date: Mar 01, 2004
Andy, I don't need them immediately. It is ok to keep the order in your back pocket to use if you need to get to the magic "ten". Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: c/s fuel gauge Chris: I visited with them again today and I should have the prototype by tomorrow afternoon. I plan on mounting it in a tank and sending out some pictures. It promises to be a really neat application, I was not going to go to Brodhead this year, but I may have to now. I have committed to buying ten at a time. Max ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darrel E. Jones" <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
Subject: Re: bought a GN-1 !
Date: Mar 01, 2004
DJ, Don't feel guilty. Building your own airplane is great, but flying your own airplane is heaven! Get the Piet finished and in the air, then you can start the next project. Darrel ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:36 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: bought a GN-1 ! well... I did it again. I picked up another nearly finished GN-1. I did the same thing back in April of 2002. On that one I pulled the control stick assembly, some turnbuckles, and various other hardware and then sold the rest for a little more than I paid for it.. I basically got parts for "free" that way. Anyways, I'm eating breakfast at the airport restaurant on Sunday and afterwards I decided to take a drive on the ramp and around the hangars. The weather was beautiful and a drive on the ramp checking out the planes seemed like a great idea. As I near the hangars I am thinking to myself... "ya know... you never see a Piet in a hangar with someone working on it" they're rare out here. Well.. no sooner had I thought that I round a corner and much to my amazement there is a craft sitting there looking very much like a Piet. I pull up to it and and I'll be damned if it's not a GN-1! I get out and take a look and I see a "for sale" sign on it. The gentleman who owns it comes out of his hangar and we chat. He picked up the project last year and intended to finish it but has now changed his mind. He never did much to it and it's still in the same state is was when he bought it. I look over the workmanship and I am impressed. Very nice work. Some areas are kinda iffy, but overall you could tell a good craftsman had put his time into it. So now I'm thinking "I could sure use them wings!" Having those wings would cut my building time down about 6-9 months. The wings are about 90% complete. Just need leading and trailing edge aluminum and ailerons. They have the drag-anti drag wires in place and it's trammeled and ready for final assembly. The fuse contained a J-3 cowl, J-3 engine mount for A-65, J-3 Fuel tank, J-3 landing gear with cleveland brakes, Maule tailwheel, complete control stick assembly. I'm interested but I'm guessing the guy is probably wanting about $4,000 for it all. I ask him anyway..... he names a price I absolutley cannot refuse. So.... on Wednesday I'm going to pick it up. He lives about 15 minutes away from me so it ought to be simple to move over. I'm going to use the wings and J-3 Fuel tank and maybe some other misc items.. I'll probably sell the fuse/tail feathers and remaining parts. This has accelerated my project by almost a year. The only draw back and issue I'm having a problem with is I will not have built my entire plane.... am I "selling out" by doing this? I feel guilty that I'll be using someone elses time/labor to get my maching in the air....so I'm thinking that I'll use these new wings for now and then when I want a little project I'll make my wings and then switch over.... but in the meantime I'll have a flying machine much sooner. gimme some feedback. DJ www.imagedv.com/aircamper _ This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: bought a GN-1 !
<007a01c3fff5$0e552f80$f004fea9@new> Who did start that one anyway? The rule is not 51%, The FARs state that more than half must be amateur built and there can be any number of amateurs taking part. I know, I know! Everyone uses the 51% number but it isn't in the FARs. Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or sportpilot(at)eaa.org ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dpaul" <dpaul(at)fidnet.com>
Subject: Bushings
Date: Mar 02, 2004
Dear List, Can anyone who has used the spoked wheel option tell me what kind of bushings they used? I've been looking at the photos of Michael Cuy's aircraft and others that I took at Brodhead and it doesn't appear that the hubs are fat enough to have used regular sealed bearings over the 1 1/2" axle. I've found a machinist who will make those six inch hubs but he wants $275.00/wheel. That seems pretty high to me. Is it really, absolutely necessary to have those wide hubs? I've found some nice wheels that seem really strong and it seems like a shame to take them apart. They even have holes where I can just bolt on a disk for the brake. But I'll do what I have to do. Thanks....Dave in Missouri ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: Bushings
Date: Mar 02, 2004
Dave, I used bronze bushings, got them 1 1/4 ID and 1 1/2 OD, just had to cut to length. If you are talking about turned aluminum hubs, I assume 7075, $275.00 sounds about right, based on how long it took me to make mine. Another option is welded 4130 tube with 3 flanges (if you want breaks, 2 if you don't) welded on and 2 of them drilled for the spokes. Should be a whole lot cheaper than aluminum. Skip Can anyone who has used the spoked wheel option tell me what kind of bushings they used? Thanks....Dave in Missouri Message Dave, I used bronze bushings, got them 1 1/4 ID and 1 1/2 OD, just had to cut to length. If you are talking about turned aluminum hubs, I assume 7075, $275.00 sounds about right, based on how long it took me to make mine. Another option is welded 4130 tube with 3 flanges (if you want breaks, 2 if you don't)welded on and 2 of them drilled for the spokes.Should be a whole lot cheaper than aluminum. Skip Can anyone who has used the spoked wheel option tell me what kind of bushings they used? Thanks....Dave in Missouri ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Bushings
Date: Mar 02, 2004
----- Original Message ----- From: dpaul To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bushings Dave, I have heard too many stories about stock motorcycle wheels and hubs collapsing when subjected to a heavy side load. Remember, on a motorcycle, there is no side loading except with a side car. To be on the safe side, and from experience, I wouldn't take the chance that each landing will be without some side loading. Some of my landings have been pretty bad. In fact, not many have been without landing slightly crosswise. In addition, some landings have been in pretty rough territory and the wheels have taken quite a beating. Each time I think that if I had not made the 6" hubs and a wheel collapsed, the plane could have been toast. I think it's too much to risk on the assumption that all of your landings will be perfect and on perfect terrain.. John Dear List, Can anyone who has used the spoked wheel option tell me what kind of bushings they used? I've been looking at the photos of Michael Cuy's aircraft and others that I took at Brodhead and it doesn't appear that the hubs are fat enough to have used regular sealed bearings over the 1 1/2" axle. I've found a machinist who will make those six inch hubs but he wants $275.00/wheel. That seems pretty high to me. Is it really, absolutely necessary to have those wide hubs? I've found some nice wheels that seem really strong and it seems like a shame to take them apart. They even have holes where I can just bolt on a disk for the brake. But I'll do what I have to do. Thanks....Dave in Missouri ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Piet model on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3178224997&category=30 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Piet model on ebay
Date: Mar 02, 2004
Y29vbCEgIHRoYXQncyBhYm91dCB0aGUgc2FtZSBzaXplIG1pbmUgaXMuICAgSSd2ZSBiZWVuIGZs eWluZyBtaW5lIGFsb3QgaW4gdGhlIHBhc3QgZmV3IHdlZWtzLiAgSSBwdXQgYSBuZXcgbW90b3Iv cmVkcml2ZSBpbiBpdCB3aGljaCB0dXJucyBhIGxhcmdlciBsb3cgcGl0Y2ggcHJvcC4gIEZsaWVz IGJldHRlciBub3cuICBNeSBmYXZvcml0ZSB0aGluZyB0byBkbyB3aXRoIGl0IGlzIGNvbWUgaW4g b24gYSB0dXJuaW5nIGZpbmFsIGFwcHJvYWNoIHJlYWwgaGlnaCBhbmQgdGhlbiBoaXQgZnVsbCBy dWRkZXIgYW5kIG9wcG9zaXRlIGFpbGVyb24gYW5kIHdhdGNoIGl0IHNsaXAgZG93bi4gIFNsaXBz IGdyZWF0IQ0KDQoNCkRKIFZlZ2gNCk43NERWDQpNZXNhLCBBWg0Kd3d3LmltYWdlZHYuY29tL2Fp cmNhbXBlcg0KDQoNCg0KLQ0KDQogIC0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0gDQogIEZy b206IE1pY2hhZWwgRCBDdXkgDQogIFRvOiBwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIA0K ICBTZW50OiBUdWVzZGF5LCBNYXJjaCAwMiwgMjAwNCA5OjIyIEFNDQogIFN1YmplY3Q6IFBpZXRl bnBvbC1MaXN0OiBQaWV0IG1vZGVsIG9uIGViYXkNCg0KDQogIGh0dHA6Ly9jZ2kuZWJheS5jb20v d3MvZUJheUlTQVBJLmRsbD9WaWV3SXRlbSZpdGVtPTMxNzgyMjQ5OTcmY2F0ZWdvcnk9MzANCiAg IA0K ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Bushings
Hello Dave-- I got my oilite bronze, flanged bushings from Bearing Distributors. Check this site for a retailer near you. http://www.bdi-usa.com/ I had to machine my axle a tad for the bushings to slip over--you may not have to. The trick is not to have your bushing turn inside the hub so I did as Frank P. did and cleaned my bushings and hub insides with MEK. I filed three grooves perpendicular to the direction they slide on, applied T-88 around the 1" wide part that slips in your hubs and let it cure. I used regular auto grease to lube them. Nuther thing a place like Bearing Distributors can sell you are washers for your axle. I didn't want those bushings rubbing on the hex shaped axle nut so I bought the appropriate size steel washers. On the axel itself I welded a washer on the inside of where I wanted the hub to slide on and stop. I then ground it down to a smaller size (not necessary but I needed to to clear my go kart brake calipers) This serves as a stop on the inboard side for your hubs. Hope this helps, Mike C ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
<002c01c3ffd6$abe2af30$2cc5fea9@home>
Subject: Re: bought a GN-1 !
Date: Mar 02, 2004
well I took delivery of the new plane today. I even took some time to temporarily mount up one wing to my fuse and snap some pics. here's pics of the wings http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-02-04.htm and here's pics of the fuse, which by the way is for sale :-) http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-02-04b.htm DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Bushings
Date: Mar 02, 2004
Hi Dave, I agree with John - all it takes is one really bad landing and if a wheel folds you might tear up the whole airplane (much less hurting yourself). I had a machine shop turn my 6" wide hubs for me - cost me $400 for the pair with me supplying the aluminum. I just got them back from Buchanan's all laced up with brand new stainless steel spokes - they sort of make me forget how much they cost me. I wish now I had polished the aluminum hubs before I sent them off. Mine are designed for a 1-1/2" axle, and I used some Timken roller bearings salvaged from a set of Goodyear aircraft wheels. BTW, the source I used for my aluminum was a company called Yarde Metals. They have a "Drop Zone" where they sell remnants and cutoffs from jobs. I got a billet of 6061 T651 aluminum 10" in diameter and 17" long for about $150. Their website is: http://www.yarde.com/cgi-bin/dropzone.pl Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- Dave, I have heard too many stories about stock motorcycle wheels and hubs collapsing when subjected to a heavy side load. Remember, on a motorcycle, there is no side loading except with a side car. To be on the safe side, and from experience, I wouldn't take the chance that each landing will be without some side loading. Some of my landings have been pretty bad. In fact, not many have been without landing slightly crosswise. In addition, some landings have been in pretty rough territory and the wheels have taken quite a beating. Each time I think that if I had not made the 6" hubs and a wheel collapsed, the plane could have been toast. I think it's too much to risk on the assumption that all of your landings will be perfect and on perfect terrain.. John ================================== Dear List, Can anyone who has used the spoked wheel option tell me what kind of bushings they used? I've been looking at the photos of Michael Cuy's aircraft and others that I took at Brodhead and it doesn't appear that the hubs are fat enough to have used regular sealed bearings over the 1 1/2" axle. I've found a machinist who will make those six inch hubs but he wants $275.00/wheel. That seems pretty high to me. Is it really, absolutely necessary to have those wide hubs? I've found some nice wheels that seem really strong and it seems like a shame to take them apart. They even have holes where I can just bolt on a disk for the brake. But I'll do what I have to do. Thanks....Dave in Missouri ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Bushings
Date: Mar 02, 2004
----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:15 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bushings Them's one beautiful wheels! John Hi Dave, I agree with John - all it takes is one really bad landing and if a wheel folds you might tear up the whole airplane (much less hurting yourself). I had a machine shop turn my 6" wide hubs for me - cost me $400 for the pair with me supplying the aluminum. I just got them back from Buchanan's all laced up with brand new stainless steel spokes - they sort of make me forget how much they cost me. I wish now I had polished the aluminum hubs before I sent them off. Mine are designed for a 1-1/2" axle, and I used some Timken roller bearings salvaged from a set of Goodyear aircraft wheels. BTW, the source I used for my aluminum was a company called Yarde Metals. They have a "Drop Zone" where they sell remnants and cutoffs from jobs. I got a billet of 6061 T651 aluminum 10" in diameter and 17" long for about $150. Their website is: http://www.yarde.com/cgi-bin/dropzone.pl Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- Dave, I have heard too many stories about stock motorcycle wheels and hubs collapsing when subjected to a heavy side load. Remember, on a motorcycle, there is no side loading except with a side car. To be on the safe side, and from experience, I wouldn't take the chance that each landing will be without some side loading. Some of my landings have been pretty bad. In fact, not many have been without landing slightly crosswise. In addition, some landings have been in pretty rough territory and the wheels have taken quite a beating. Each time I think that if I had not made the 6" hubs and a wheel collapsed, the plane could have been toast. I think it's too much to risk on the assumption that all of your landings will be perfect and on perfect terrain.. John Dear List, Can anyone who has used the spoked wheel option tell me what kind of bushings they used? I've been looking at the photos of Michael Cuy's aircraft and others that I took at Brodhead and it doesn't appear that the hubs are fat enough to have used regular sealed bearings over the 1 1/2" axle. I've found a machinist who will make those six inch hubs but he wants $275.00/wheel. That seems pretty high to me. Is it really, absolutely necessary to have those wide hubs? I've found some nice wheels that seem really strong and it seems like a shame to take them apart. They even have holes where I can just bolt on a disk for the brake. But I'll do what I have to do. Thanks....Dave in Missouri ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
<002c01c3ffd6$abe2af30$2cc5fea9@home> <003b01c400bc$bb00a5d0$d2a86d44@Desktop> force.
Subject: a question for the engineer types - 7075 aluminum thread
pull-out force.
Date: Mar 02, 2004
Done lots of reading online about thread pull-out force in aluminum but the equations make my brain hurt. Basically what I'd like to know it if I have a Piper Cub lift strut fork (1/2" - 13 thread I think) threaded into a 7075 aluminum block (approx 70kpsi shear) about 1", what would it take to fail the threads in the aluminum and pull out the fork? My initial guestimate would say it would take at least 12,000lb..... Even 5,000lb would do as some rough math shows each lift strut sees about 1400lb in a 4G load. Even with a safety factor of 3 that's only 4200lb..... but guestimates and probably's don't do much for you when your wing has folded and you become a lawn dart. Who's got some engineering skills that could give me a more solid number or even an opinion on whether I should use 7075 aluminum or 1018 steel block to thread this fork into. (I can't seem to find 4130 in .75 and 1" square bar) Maybe 7075 is a bad choice because of fatigue? Opinions!? DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
thread pull-out force.
Subject: a question for the engineer types - 7075 aluminum
thread pull-out force.
Date: Mar 03, 2004
Hi DJ, You need a little more information - specifically, how many threads will you have engaged? Threaded holes typically fail by shearing across the thread roots, so you will need to calculate the area of the thread roots, multiplied by the number of threads engaged, multiplied by a healthy safety factor. 7075 is not too bad for fatigue (for aluminum), but with cut threads you will have some significant stress risers. Personally, I would try to have a factor of safety of at least 5. If the Lift struts let go, you will have a very bad day. Given a choice between aluminum and steel for such a part, I would go with steel due to its increased fatigue resistance, unless you have a large safety margin. What about corrosion? What will this block be attached to? Steel or aluminum lift struts? If steel struts, then definitely make this block of steel to avoid dis-similar metals setting up galvanic corrosion. If aluminum then I would lean towards an aluminum block, preferably with a barrier of oil on the steel threads of the strut fork to avoid corrosion. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Subject: Pietenpol-List: a question for the engineer types - 7075 aluminum thread pull-out force. Done lots of reading online about thread pull-out force in aluminum but the equations make my brain hurt. Basically what I'd like to know it if I have a Piper Cub lift strut fork (1/2" - 13 thread I think) threaded into a 7075 aluminum block (approx 70kpsi shear) about 1", what would it take to fail the threads in the aluminum and pull out the fork? My initial guestimate would say it would take at least 12,000lb..... Even 5,000lb would do as some rough math shows each lift strut sees about 1400lb in a 4G load. Even with a safety factor of 3 that's only 4200lb..... but guestimates and probably's don't do much for you when your wing has folded and you become a lawn dart. Who's got some engineering skills that could give me a more solid number or even an opinion on whether I should use 7075 aluminum or 1018 steel block to thread this fork into. (I can't seem to find 4130 in .75 and 1" square bar) Maybe 7075 is a bad choice because of fatigue? Opinions!? DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com>
Subject: Wire Spoke Wheels
Date: Mar 03, 2004
Jack, Those wheels look great!!!!!!!! Now for a couple of questions........I noticed that the flange on one side appears to be a different size than the other. Is there a reason for this or do I need to re-calibrate my eyes? What are you going to use for brakes? Do you have any drawings of the hubs? What shop turned them for you? Jim Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 2004
From: horzpool(at)goldengate.net
Subject: Re: Axle
Cliff I am in taxi testing now and the axle seems fine so far. Lots of others have used it too. Dick Quoting Clif Dawson : > All the plans I've got specify 1 1/2" tubing. > That's the 1932 Fly+Glide Piet, 1933 F+G > Scout split axle and my plans from Don > Pietenpol. > Where's this reference to 1 1/4"? My copies > came from EAA 10 years ago. Did they > make a change somewhere along the line? > > So, Richard, I assume your 1 1/4" is holding > up fine? I would rather use that if it does. I > could make it fit my wheels more easily. > > Clif > > Dave, > The Flying and glider plans call out 1 1/4 X 12 GA. Chrome-Molybdenum for > the axle. 12 GA. is .1045" thick, I think most guys go up to .120" rather > than down to .095". > 1 1/8 X .083" does sound a little light and flimsy. > Mine is split axle and I chose 1 1/4 X .120". > Skip > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: a question for the engineer types - 7075 aluminum
thread
Date: Mar 03, 2004
DJ, Jack is correct in saying that it's based on the thread failure. However, and this may not answer you question directly, the height of a basic nut has been determined so that failure based on the area of threads is greater than the failure based on the cross-section of the bolt. This is not a absoulte engineering solution, but it helps one visualize the strength of the threads compaired to the strenght of the body of the bolt. To determine failure, you have to figure the problem three ways: 1) will the threads shear off of the threaded rod, 2) will the threads shear off of the threaded hole, or 3) will the rod fail in tension at it's smallest diameter (which is likely the minor diameter of the rod's threads). Try looking at pages 1490 from the Machinery's Handbook (I have edition 26) which has all the formulas for this and specifically has formulas for when the material of the threaded hole is weaker than the threaded rod. Robert Haines Du Quoin, Illinois From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: a question for the engineer types - 7075 aluminum thread pull-out force. Done lots of reading online about thread pull-out force in aluminum but the equations make my brain hurt. Basically what I'd like to know it if I have a Piper Cub lift strut fork (1/2" - 13 thread I think) threaded into a 7075 aluminum block (approx 70kpsi shear) about 1", what would it take to fail the threads in the aluminum and pull out the fork? My initial guestimate would say it would take at least 12,000lb..... Even 5,000lb would do as some rough math shows each lift strut sees about 1400lb in a 4G load. Even with a safety factor of 3 that's only 4200lb..... but guestimates and probably's don't do much for you when your wing has folded and you become a lawn dart. Who's got some engineering skills that could give me a more solid number or even an opinion on whether I should use 7075 aluminum or 1018 steel block to thread this fork into. (I can't seem to find 4130 in .75 and 1" square bar) Maybe 7075 is a bad choice because of fatigue? Opinions!? DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Great photos of Jan '04 CA Corvair College
Forgive me if this site has already been posted but it is just fantastic: http://www.flycorvair.com/cc5.html Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Wire Spoke Wheels
Date: Mar 03, 2004
Hi Jim, Thanks for the compliment. Yes the flanges are different on the inside and outside, in order to allow installation of Cleveland 8" disc brakes. I have drawings of the hubs on AutoCAD if you are interested. The hubs were turned by Leland Machine Shop in Wilmington, NC. Billy Johnson, the owner of the shop, has built several airplanes and I think gave me a special price because of that. The wheels without tires or brakes weigh 16.5 lbs each. Heavier than I would have thought, but not a lot heavier than the Goodyears I got the bearings from. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Dallas Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Spoke Wheels Jack, Those wheels look great!!!!!!!! Now for a couple of questions........I noticed that the flange on one side appears to be a different size than the other. Is there a reason for this or do I need to re-calibrate my eyes? What are you going to use for brakes? Do you have any drawings of the hubs? What shop turned them for you? Jim Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Wire Spoke Wheels
Date: Mar 03, 2004
Jack, Thanks for the answers, and yes I would love to get a copy of the drawing. Jim Dallas ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 5:52 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Spoke Wheels Hi Jim, Thanks for the compliment. Yes the flanges are different on the inside and outside, in order to allow installation of Cleveland 8" disc brakes. I have drawings of the hubs on AutoCAD if you are interested. The hubs were turned by Leland Machine Shop in Wilmington, NC. Billy Johnson, the owner of the shop, has built several airplanes and I think gave me a special price because of that. The wheels without tires or brakes weigh 16.5 lbs each. Heavier than I would have thought, but not a lot heavier than the Goodyears I got the bearings from. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Dallas Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:51 AM To: pietenpol-list Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Spoke Wheels Jack, Those wheels look great!!!!!!!! Now for a couple of questions........I noticed that the flange on one side appears to be a different size than the other. Is there a reason for this or do I need to re-calibrate my eyes? What are you going to use for brakes? Do you have any drawings of the hubs? What shop turned them for you? Jim Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
Subject: Re: Wire Spoke Wheels
Date: Mar 03, 2004
Jack, Is there a site you could post your drawings? I'll be honest, I want to steal them just like the rest of the guys. Hank (steal from the best, the rest ain't worth the trouble) J ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 6:52 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Spoke Wheels Hi Jim, Thanks for the compliment. Yes the flanges are different on the inside and outside, in order to allow installation of Cleveland 8" disc brakes. I have drawings of the hubs on AutoCAD if you are interested. The hubs were turned by Leland Machine Shop in Wilmington, NC. Billy Johnson, the owner of the shop, has built several airplanes and I think gave me a special price because of that. The wheels without tires or brakes weigh 16.5 lbs each. Heavier than I would have thought, but not a lot heavier than the Goodyears I got the bearings from. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Dallas Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:51 AM To: pietenpol-list Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Spoke Wheels Jack, Those wheels look great!!!!!!!! Now for a couple of questions........I noticed that the flange on one side appears to be a different size than the other. Is there a reason for this or do I need to re-calibrate my eyes? What are you going to use for brakes? Do you have any drawings of the hubs? What shop turned them for you? Jim Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Mar 03, 2004
DNA: not not archive
Subject: [PLEASE READ] Virus Laden Spam Purports To Be From Matronics...
Dear Listers, First let me say that I normally don't condone the sharing of warnings about Internet viruses on the Matronics Email Lists. I don't want to start a storm of discussion regarding computer viruses on the Lists, so please just note the information below and refrain from commenting to the List. The circumstances I describe below are disturbing enough that I felt an explanation is necessary. That being said... There is a new email-bourne virus running rampant on the Internet that is cleverly disguising itself as legitimate email warning of such things as: "your email account is disabled because of unauthorized access" "Some of our clients complained about the spam (negative e-mail content) outgoing from your e-mail account" "Probably, you have been infected by a proxy-relay trojan server. In order to keep your computer safe, follow the instructions." "Our main mailing server will be temporary unavailable for next two days, to continue receiving mail in these days you have to configure our free auto-forwarding service." All of these messages include an attachment that you are instructed to click upon to "Get more information", "clean the virus from your system", or "check your system for infections". These enclosures all contain a virus that will infect your system and propagate even more copies of the original message. The disturbing part of these messages is that they appear to be coming from very legitimate addresses and have very legitimate, convincing dialog. For example, I have received a number of them today that appear to be from "support(at)matronics.com", "management(at)matronics.com", "administration(at)matronics.com", and "staff(at)matronics.com". The text of the messages seems believable enough, and given the forged source address, seem even more legitimate. Please be assured that no one at Matronics.com will be sending you these kinds of messages. If you receive one, it is a spam/virus that has forged headers and was sent to you from someone other than Matronics. Delete the message and the attachment promptly. Invest in a copy of Norton Antivirus and keep the definitions up dated on a daily basis. Again, I want to stress that I *DO NOT* want a big discussion of viruses on the Matronics Email Lists. Please do not reply to this email with any comments. You may write to me directly at dralle(at)matronics.com if you wish, but do not include the List. Since many of these appear to come from matronics.com, I wanted to assure everyone that Matronics wasn't the real source of these messages. Let's be careful out there and keep those virus definitions up to date! Today alone, the Matronics spam filter and virus blocking appliance has filtered out 11,550 spam messages and 375 viruses! That's just in an 18 hour period! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rob" <edmist_r(at)bellsouth.net>
<1078324505.4045ed19ae45f(at)rain.goldengate.net>
Subject: .
Date: Mar 04, 2004
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 2004
From: PAT HOEVELMANN <hoevelmann(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 5.00 cleveland wheels
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 2004
From: PAT HOEVELMANN <hoevelmann(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 5.00 cleveland wheels
I have a set of 5.00 cleveland wheels and brakes and was wondering if I could use them on a split axel landing gear setup. I think they may be to small but I would hate to waste them. Thanks, J.J. Hoevelmann ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 04, 2004
Subject: Re: 5.00 cleveland wheels
J.J. If you want an opinion I'll give you a little one for what it might be worth. I owned and flew a C-150D for many years and about 700 hrs, enough to get acquainted with the bird. Landed in rice fields, Interstate -49, concrete runways, asphalt runways and an assortment of sods you wouldn't believe. Even had a bull chase me around the pasture after a forced, oil line disconnected under instrument panel. He must have thought I was something from the other world looking for his heifers. Had a few other experiences that I'd rather not expose for those FAA people to know about. Point is: It had 5:00 wheels and brakes and it was a much heavier machine than our Piets. Just an opinion and you'll probably gain 3 or 4 mph over the 6:00 Corky in La watching everyone else fly ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: fuel gauge
Date: Mar 04, 2004
I've been following the discussion on the fuel gauges and agree that the "Stearman-type" gauge in the conventional location does have concerns. For those not familiar with how this typically ends up looking, you can see one at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/Pb030014.jpg and readily note that it is in the area used by the passenger boarding from the port side (conventional setup). William Wynne, whose Corvair-powered Piet crashed a few years ago, was burned due to this very situation. The fuel fittings in the sump/outlet area broke off in the crash and spilled fuel into the cockpit area, where it ignited. William is now advocating a setup with either a breakaway flow-check fitting, or a different sump and fuel outlet connection since the tank itself remained intact in the crash of his Piet. Any improvement on the conventional outlet and gauge setup is a real plus. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 2004
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: fuel gauge
> >I've been following the discussion on the fuel gauges and agree that >the "Stearman-type" gauge in the conventional location does have >concerns. For those not familiar with how this typically ends up >looking, you can see one at >http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/Pb030014.jpg and readily note that >it is in the area used by the passenger boarding from the port side >(conventional setup). > >William Wynne, whose Corvair-powered Piet crashed a few years ago, >was burned due to this very situation. The fuel fittings in the >sump/outlet area broke off in the crash and spilled fuel into the >cockpit area, where it ignited. William is now advocating a setup >with either a breakaway flow-check fitting, or a different sump and >fuel outlet connection since the tank itself remained intact in the >crash of his Piet. Any improvement on the conventional outlet and >gauge setup is a real plus. > >Oscar Zuniga >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net Oscar, You are right about William's concerns, but I'll add some detail. I looked over & discussed his fuel tank setup with him about 8 months before the crash. Two items: first, William's tank was integral with his center section. In other words, he basically glassed-in the center section to creat the tank, which, as I recall, was about 20 gal. Much bigger than a drop-in tank. This idea has a lot of appeal to me because the Corvair burns more than an A-65 (about 4-5 gal./hr.) and like Chuck Gantzer, I have an iron butt & like to stay in the air instead of landing every couple of hrs. for fuel. I think this setup is quite interesting in light of the fact that the tank did remain intact in the crash. Secondly, because of this tank setup, William had two sumps, one at the front & one at the back of the tank, both on the right side of the center section. I don't recall how or where the lines joined, but one of them ran along the underside of the center section & then both of them went down one of the cabane struts. They probably tied together at a fitting that also fed the primer; I don't remember. He is recommending flow-check fittings located where these lines exit the tank bottom. The other thing he is recommending on Corvair-powered planes is some sort of total 'kill-switch' to the electrical system. The fire started because of a crash-induced short. He thinks that the distributor-coil type ingnition system was responsible for this. Kip Gardner -- North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Woodflier(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 05, 2004
Subject: Re: 5.00X5 Cleveland wheels
I put 5.00 X 5 wheels and brakes on my Piet with split axle gear, and, though I haven't flown it, they look to be in proportion to the airplane. If a Piet is too big for 5.00 X 5s, then I can't imagine what aircraft would be small enough. I suspect they may bog down in soft ground a bit easier than the 6.00 X 6s but probably not by much. Matt Paxton ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: 5.00X5 Cleveland wheels
Date: Mar 06, 2004
See if there are bigger tires that fit on the 5 x 5 wheels. It is common to 8 x 6 tires on 6x6 wheels. Call Desser Tires or look at their website. Chris Bobka ----- Original Message ----- From: <Woodflier(at)aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 5.00X5 Cleveland wheels > > > I put 5.00 X 5 wheels and brakes on my Piet with split axle gear, and, though > I haven't flown it, they look to be in proportion to the airplane. If a Piet > is too big for 5.00 X 5s, then I can't imagine what aircraft would be small > enough. I suspect they may bog down in soft ground a bit easier than the 6.00 X > 6s but probably not by much. > > Matt Paxton > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 06, 2004
Subject: Bunji Struts
Since there's not much going on, on the list, I thought I'd send along the text that I wrote for Max Davis, on how I tie my bunji strut loops. It's a long post, so be warned !! I finally got done with re-tieing, and installing my bunji struts back on the plane. Installing the bunji's on the struts, is one of the most difficult 2 man chores that I do alone, as regular maintenance. Last year, I pulled a tendon in my right elbow, this time all I did was pinch my finger (it only bled a little bit), and now only have achy forearms from pulling and fixing the loops over the struts. This is the last time I'm going to re-tie the bunji's...I'm building spring struts !!! It's difficult to put it in text, how I tie the loops, so I've taken a lot of digital pictures, and will send them direct to anyone that contacts me direct. The instructions I'm giving here, is for the PLANS DIMENSIONS of the bunji strut suspension. It took me 2 or 3 tries my first time, before I was satisfied with how the loop turned out. Start out using two wraps of medical tape where you plan on cutting the bunji chord with a sharp knife, or the bunji chord will unravel before your eyes. Cut up a piece of scrap to see how this stuff is made. It obviously is stretched quite a bit, before the cloth weave is applied to the many small strands of rubber bands. The 5/8" bunji chord from AS&S is part #06-12600. If it's all in one length, you can use the medical tape centered where you wish to cut, then just cut right down through the medical tape, leaving half of the medical tape on each piece. I use a waxed chord from a leather company called 'The Leather Factory'. The wax chord from them has a part # 1220-01. Roll out 16 feet of the wax chord, and double it up. If you pull it through your fingers, it will kind of stick together as a single chord. Use the doubled up waxed chord, as a single chord. An airport buddy of mine showed me how to tie the loops, but I've learned most of this stuff by trial and error, and keeping records of each process, and a sample of how the knots are tied. Measure back from the tip of the cut bunji chord to 7 3/4", and make a mark with a black pen. This is where you loop the tip of the bunji back to, to make a loop. Use a zip tie, cinched down tight, to hold the loop, while you tie the loop with the waxed chord. I started out using cut bunji length of 34". They loosened up, so I took them apart and when I cut off the waxed chord of the tied loops, they had stretched to 36" cut length !! I shortened them that time to 33", but they got loose again. On 7/19/03 I re-tied them all to 31". They have loosened up again, so now I've cut them all to 29" cut length. Tied length on all four is now is 21 3/8" to 21 1/2". That's from the tip to tip of the end of the loops. Here's the hard part to describe...tying the knots. The tied up portion that the waxed chord covers, is 1" to 1 1/8". Measure up from the cut end of the bunji 1" to 1/18" and make another mark. This is where you start to tie your knots. Start out by taking one end of the waxed chord, up under the zip tie, to the tip of the loop of the bunji and tape it there. Bring the length of waxed chord down past the cut end of the bunji about 3" past where you made your first mark, and loop it back up almost to the zip tie. Make the first knot in the waxed chord closest to the bunji loop. Make a loose loop around your first two fingers, and twist it counterclockwise one turn, and loop it back over top of the loop of the bunji. Take up the slack with the long end of the waxed chord, and line up the first knot closest to the bunji loop. You can't make this one very tight, because there is nothing to tighten it up to. Work each knot away from the loop of the bunji. The second knot, third, and so on, will be able to tighten it up, with a leather protection for your hand, or the waxed chord will cut the skin...gotta get it really tight !! For each knot, you make a loop around the first two fingers of your left hand, and twist it one turn counterclockwise, and loop it back over the loop of the bunji. You have to line up the knots of the waxed chord, along the seam where the bunji chord loops back to the cut end of the bunji chord. Your initial waxed chord will be under the knots you are tying. Maybe 20 or 30 knots later (I haven't counted them), you will have reached the cut end of the bunji, making the tied portion about 1" to 1 1/8" long. Now you take what's left of the waxed chord (about 3"), and thread it through the loop that you taped down past the cut end of the bunji. With the first end of the waxed chord that you inserted up under the zip tie, pull the other end up under the set of tied knots, bring the ends together with a couple of square knots. This keeps the assembly of knots tied together. You may be able to get away with a bunji chord cut length of 30", because new chord isn't stretched out yet. As far as getting it streached around the struts...do it when there are no women or children around !! Tape the jaws of the vise to secure the strut, and be careful not to over tighten the vise to the point where it crimps the metal, but plenty tight enough to hold it secure. This is a two man job...one to keep stretch on the chord, the other to keep working the slack around the loops with a huge 24" pair of channel locks - with tape on the jaws so it doesn't damage the bunji cloth. I used a small rope through the loop, and back up around the other end of the bunji strut, to keep stretching the bunji, and keep it from stretching back. Good Luck, and HAVE AT IT !! If you find an easy way to do it...Please let me know. I hope you can understand all this. Fire away with any questions !! Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 06, 2004
Subject: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem
Group: I hope you all are experiencing the same weather that Jim Markle and myself are in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, and are outside flying. Rochester gauges of Dallas made a sample of the inverted center section fuel gauge for me and it looks, and will work, great! That was the good news. The bad news is that they said it would not pass tooling, and it would not pass quality...I've said more than my share of curse words this week. At this point, they will not make them for me, stating, that they cannot mass produce this item and get the quality that they demand at the same time. I suggested that maybe they could sell them to me as a novelty or paper weight, to no avail. I showed it to Jim Markle and he also said it looks great. I have some pictures and even a clip I could send you, if you want to be as disgusted as we are. I truly think that in the event of an accident, this is an item that can keep an airplane from burning up, a person from getting burned or in the extreme, save someone's life. I am now looking at the possibility of producing the gauge, as well as marketing it, myself, to the homebuilding community. I am sorry for getting everyone excited about this, I did not understand, when the computer says it can't be done, the production engineers agree. Sorry guys, I'll keep you posted. Max Davis Arlington, TX. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem
Date: Mar 06, 2004
Max, I would love to see some pictures of it. Jim Dallas ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 8:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem Group: I hope you all are experiencing the same weather that Jim Markle and myself are in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, and are outside flying. Rochester gauges of Dallas made a sample of the inverted center section fuel gauge for me and it looks, and will work, great! That was the good news. The bad news is that they said it would not pass tooling, and it would not pass quality...I've said more than my share of curse words this week. At this point, they will not make them for me, stating, that they cannot mass produce this item and get the quality that they demand at the same time. I suggested that maybe they could sell them to me as a novelty or paper weight, to no avail. I showed it to Jim Markle and he also said it looks great. I have some pictures and even a clip I could send you, if you want to be as disgusted as we are. I truly think that in the event of an accident, this is an item that can keep an airplane from burning up, a person from getting burned or in the extreme, save someone's life. I am now looking at the possibility of producing the gauge, as well as marketing it, myself, to the homebuilding community. I am sorry for getting everyone excited about this, I did not understand, when the computer says it can't be done, the production engineers agree. Sorry guys, I'll keep you posted. Max Davis Arlington, TX. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem
Date: Mar 06, 2004
Max, Did they know it was for an airplane? Maybe thats where they got cold feet. Something for a plane sends up red liability flags. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 9:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem Group: I hope you all are experiencing the same weather that Jim Markle and myself are in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, and are outside flying. Rochester gauges of Dallas made a sample of the inverted center section fuel gauge for me and it looks, and will work, great! That was the good news. The bad news is that they said it would not pass tooling, and it would not pass quality...I've said more than my share of curse words this week. At this point, they will not make them for me, stating, that they cannot mass produce this item and get the quality that they demand at the same time. I suggested that maybe they could sell them to me as a novelty or paper weight, to no avail. I showed it to Jim Markle and he also said it looks great. I have some pictures and even a clip I could send you, if you want to be as disgusted as we are. I truly think that in the event of an accident, this is an item that can keep an airplane from burning up, a person from getting burned or in the extreme, save someone's life. I am now looking at the possibility of producing the gauge, as well as marketing it, myself, to the homebuilding community. I am sorry for getting everyone excited about this, I did not understand, when the computer says it can't be done, the production engineers agree. Sorry guys, I'll keep you posted. Max Davis Arlington, TX. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2004
Subject: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem
From: rhartwig11(at)juno.com
I guess I'm back to using Bill Rewey's idea--a Cub type float-and-wire on the gas cap and a mirror that I can hold up to see it. Dick Hartwig >Rochester gauges of Dallas made a sample of the inverted center section fuel >gauge for me and it looks, and will work, great! That was the good news. The >bad news is that they said it would not pass tooling, and it would not pass >quality... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: tail wheel springs/chains
Date: Mar 07, 2004
Q291bGQgc29tZSBvZiB5b3Ugc2VuZCBtZSBzb21lIHBpY3Mgb3IgbGlua3MgdG8gcGljcyBvZiB5 b3VyIHRhaWwgd2hlZWwgY29udHJvbCBjb25uZWN0aW9ucz8gDQoNCkknbSBub3QgdG90YWxseSBw bGVhc2VkIHdpdGggdGhlIEdOLTEncyBtZXRob2Qgb2YgdGFpbCB3aGVlbCBjb250cm9sLiBJdCBz YXlzIHRvIHVzZSBzb21lIC4wOTAgc3RlZWwgYXJtcyBib2x0ZWQgdG8gdGhlIHJ1ZGRlciBhbmQg dGhlbiBjb25uZWN0ZWQgdG8gdGhlIHRhaWx3aGVlbCB2aWEgc3ByaW5ncyBhbmQgY2hhaW5zLiAg IFRoZSBhbmdsZSBpcyBzdGVlcCB1cCB0byB0aGUgbWV0YWwgYXJtcyBmcm9tIHRoZSB0YWlsIHdo ZWVsLiAgSSB0cmllZCBhICJ0YXhpIiB0ZXN0IHRvZGF5IGluIHdoaWNoIG15IGdpcmxmcmllbmQg cHVsbGVkIHRoZSBwbGFuZSBmcm9tIHRoZSBlbmdpbmUgbW91bnQgd2hpbGUgSSBzdGVlcmVkIGZy b20gdGhlIGNvY2twaXQuICBXaXRoaW4gNSBzZWNvbmRzIEkgbWFuYWdlZCB0byBiZW5kIGRvd24g b25lIG9mIHRoZSBhcm1zLiAgVGhlIGFuZ2xlIGlzIGp1c3QgdG9vIG11Y2ggYW5kIGFueSBnb29k IGFtb3VudCBvZiBwZWRhbCBmb3JjZSBqdXN0IGJlbmRzIHRoZSBhcm0gZG93bi4NCg0KSSdkIGxp a2UgdG8gc2VlIGhvdyB0aGUgcmVzdCBvZiB5b3UgYXJlIGRvaW5nIGl0LiBJIHdhcyB0aGlua2lu ZyBvZiBkaXRjaGluZyB0aGUgcnVkZGVyIGFybSB0aGluZyBhbmQganVzdCBydW5uaW5nIHNlcGFy YXRlIGNhYmxlcyBmcm9tIHRoZSB0YWlsd2hlZWwgZGlyZWN0bHkgdG8gdGhlIHJ1ZGRlciBjYWJs ZXMgaW5zaWRlIHRoZSBmdXNlLi4uIHRoZW4gdGhlIHBlZGFscyBkaXJlY3RseSBjb250cm9sIHRo ZSB0YWlsd2hlZWwNCg0KV2hhdCBhYm91dCB5b3UgTWlrZSBDLiA/ICBob3cgaXMgeW91cnMgZG9u ZT8NCg0KREogVmVnaA0KTjc0RFYNCk1lc2EsIEFaDQp3d3cuaW1hZ2Vkdi5jb20vYWlyY2FtcGVy DQoNCg0KDQotDQo ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Re: tail wheel springs/chains
Date: Mar 07, 2004
----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 4:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail wheel springs/chains Could some of you send me some pics or links to pics of your tail wheel control connections? I'm not totally pleased with the GN-1's method of tail wheel control. It says to use some .090 steel arms bolted to the rudder and then connected to the tailwheel via springs and chains. The angle is steep up to the metal arms from the tail wheel. I tried a "taxi" test today in which my girlfriend pulled the plane from the engine mount while I steered from the cockpit. Within 5 seconds I managed to bend down one of the arms. The angle is just too much and any good amount of pedal force just bends the arm down. I'd like to see how the rest of you are doing it. I was thinking of ditching the rudder arm thing and just running separate cables from the tailwheel directly to the rudder cables inside the fuse... then the pedals directly control the tailwheel What about you Mike C. ? how is yours done? DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 07, 2004
Subject: Re: tail wheel springs/chains
In a message dated 3/7/04 6:57:38 PM Central Standard Time, djv(at)imagedv.com writes: << Could some of you send me some pics or links to pics of your tail wheel control connections? >> DJ, I don't like the thought of tailwheel nicopress on primary flight control cables, so the way I did my cables, was to nicopress the cable / thimble right to the springs, and installed the springs through the holes in the tailwheel horn, and run the 1/16" cable all the way up to the rudder bar. The springs are lightweight type, that when you pull the ends, it compresses (as opposed to stretching) the spring. I don't recall what you call that type of spring. The cables penetrate the fabric on the bottom of the fuselage, pass through a hole in a hardwood fairlead block (epoxied in at the station just ahead of the tailpost) and almost a straight line up to through the rear cockpit. I ran them through 24" lengths of nylon tubing in the rear cockpit, at about 1" each side of the torque tube, and secured each of the nylon tubing to the floor, in 3 places with Adel clamps. The cables / nylon tubing approximately align with the height of the rudder bar, where they pass through the bulkhead between the front and rear cockpit. I attached the cables to the rudder bar at 3 1/2" R.B.L. (right butt line), and 3 1/2" L.B.L. using fittings that I made up out of a 1" length of tubing that had an I.D. of the O.D. of the rudder bar. I welded a pair of toungs to the this 1" tube, then used a hack saw to cut a slit in the 1" tube, between the toungs. Drill a hole in the toungs for a bolt, and it now acts as a clamp on the rudder bar, as well as another hole for the cable / nicopress. I attached everything up at the rudder bar, then did the final nicopress at the spring in the back...no need for adjustment. It's light, simple, and has so far worked flawlessly. I've got a leak in one of the master cylinders under the front seat, and tomorrow I'll take some digital pictures of that area. The pictures will also show the slick way I built my brake pedals / master cylinders. There's a lot of stuff going on under that front seat !! Chuck Gantzer still working some squawks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem
Date: Mar 07, 2004
Andy, If you are going to make them elsewhere, consider having them done in BRASS rather than Aluminum as most would LOVE to shine them up BRIGHT ! Consider that anybody with a modern Aluminum plane is going to go electronic gauge anyway, you have a potential to capture the market for the more rustic aircraft with high wings or biplane wings with a tank or tanks in them. Also, it may be desireable if the card (the gizmo with the F and E letters on it) has a more antique looking font on it. If you would like to change it to look more '20s, let me know and I will see what I can do with people I know. We would need the flat layout of what you have to start with. Theoretically, if you changed the design just enough, you could have parts made for different lengths and a top mount or a bottom mount. I have a gauge similar to this that I used in my Taylorcraft although it was part of the gas cap. The bottom line is that most people would want matching gauges. The parts could also be assembled by the builder to keep the cost and liability down. Make sure the float is compatible with ALL the fuels we use. Some might be using regular oxygenated gasahol in whatever they are flying way out in the future. A soldered brass float is always compatible. BTW, ask Jim Markle about his sandblasting cabinet that he built from my plans! Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 8:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem Group: I hope you all are experiencing the same weather that Jim Markle and myself are in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, and are outside flying. Rochester gauges of Dallas made a sample of the inverted center section fuel gauge for me and it looks, and will work, great! That was the good news. The bad news is that they said it would not pass tooling, and it would not pass quality...I've said more than my share of curse words this week. At this point, they will not make them for me, stating, that they cannot mass produce this item and get the quality that they demand at the same time. I suggested that maybe they could sell them to me as a novelty or paper weight, to no avail. I showed it to Jim Markle and he also said it looks great. I have some pictures and even a clip I could send you, if you want to be as disgusted as we are. I truly think that in the event of an accident, this is an item that can keep an airplane from burning up, a person from getting burned or in the extreme, save someone's life. I am now looking at the possibility of producing the gauge, as well as marketing it, myself, to the homebuilding community. I am sorry for getting everyone excited about this, I did not understand, when the computer says it can't be done, the production engineers agree. Sorry guys, I'll keep you posted. Max Davis Arlington, TX. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: tail wheel springs/chains
Date: Mar 07, 2004
thanks! a good idea which I will consider. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail wheel springs/chains > > In a message dated 3/7/04 6:57:38 PM Central Standard Time, djv(at)imagedv.com > writes: > > << Could some of you send me some pics or links to pics of your tail wheel > control connections? >> > > DJ, > I don't like the thought of tailwheel nicopress on primary flight control > cables, so the way I did my cables, was to nicopress the cable / thimble > right to the springs, and installed the springs through the holes in the tailwheel > horn, and run the 1/16" cable all the way up to the rudder bar. The springs > are lightweight type, that when you pull the ends, it compresses (as opposed > to stretching) the spring. I don't recall what you call that type of spring. > The cables penetrate the fabric on the bottom of the fuselage, pass through a > hole in a hardwood fairlead block (epoxied in at the station just ahead of the > tailpost) and almost a straight line up to through the rear cockpit. I ran > them through 24" lengths of nylon tubing in the rear cockpit, at about 1" > each side of the torque tube, and secured each of the nylon tubing to the floor, > in 3 places with Adel clamps. The cables / nylon tubing approximately align > with the height of the rudder bar, where they pass through the bulkhead between > the front and rear cockpit. > I attached the cables to the rudder bar at 3 1/2" R.B.L. (right butt > line), and 3 1/2" L.B.L. using fittings that I made up out of a 1" length of > tubing that had an I.D. of the O.D. of the rudder bar. I welded a pair of toungs > to the this 1" tube, then used a hack saw to cut a slit in the 1" tube, between > the toungs. Drill a hole in the toungs for a bolt, and it now acts as a > clamp on the rudder bar, as well as another hole for the cable / nicopress. I > attached everything up at the rudder bar, then did the final nicopress at the > spring in the back...no need for adjustment. It's light, simple, and has so far > worked flawlessly. I've got a leak in one of the master cylinders under the > front seat, and tomorrow I'll take some digital pictures of that area. The > pictures will also show the slick way I built my brake pedals / master > cylinders. There's a lot of stuff going on under that front seat !! > > Chuck Gantzer > still working some squawks > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 08, 2004
Subject: Re: tail wheel springs/chains
I saw Chuck's installation and I like it a lot. I plan to do the same. Terry B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2004
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: tail wheel springs/chains
The sonex setup is one that you should seriously consider, the small wheel is all that you need even in grass, and it puts a ton less pressure on control arms etc. its light weight and the direct connection without springs is clean, and works way better than any spring system. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=157 Catdesign wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail wheel springs/chains Could some of you send me some pics or links to pics of your tail wheel control connections? I'm not totally pleased with the GN-1's method of tail wheel control. It says to use some .090 steel arms bolted to the rudder and then connected to the tailwheel via springs and chains. The angle is steep up to the metal arms from the tail wheel. I tried a "taxi" test today in which my girlfriend pulled the plane from the engine mount while I steered from the cockpit. Within 5 seconds I managed to bend down one of the arms. The angle is just too much and any good amount of pedal force just bends the arm down. I'd like to see how the rest of you are doing it. I was thinking of ditching the rudder arm thing and just running separate cables from the tailwheel directly to the rudder cables inside the fuse... then the pedals directly control the tailwheel What about you Mike C. ? how is yours done? DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: wing construction
Date: Mar 08, 2004
Hey guys, I've got a question. Does it matter if the leading edge is attached to the wing ribs before the drag/anti-drag wires are attached and tightened?. I personally don't think it's a factor but the questioned was raised. Jeff in Texas getting the bbq out One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page download MSN Toolbar now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: tail wheel springs/chains
DJ-- I simply spliced another 3/32" diam. cable to the rudder cables behind the rear seat for the tailwheel steering control. Then I ran those past two nylon pullies that I bolted in just before the cables exit the fuselage bottom. Works fine. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: wing construction
Date: Mar 08, 2004
Wing should be trammeled before the leading edge goes on. This means that you need to have installed the drag-antidrag wires so to straighten it all up first. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or sportpilot(at)eaa.org Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing construction > > Hey guys, I've got a question. Does it matter if the leading edge is > attached to the wing ribs before the drag/anti-drag wires are attached and > tightened?. I personally don't think it's a factor but the questioned was > raised. > > Jeff in Texas getting the bbq out > > _________________________________________________________________ > One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page - download MSN Toolbar now! > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: wing construction
Date: Mar 08, 2004
I would think you'd want the drag-antidrag wires installed and trammeled first. The wing will need to move a little when trammeling and if the leading edge is secured to the ribs it may bind up a little, but I have not built any wings so my advice may be worth nothing. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing construction > > Hey guys, I've got a question. Does it matter if the leading edge is > attached to the wing ribs before the drag/anti-drag wires are attached and > tightened?. I personally don't think it's a factor but the questioned was > raised. > > Jeff in Texas getting the bbq out > > _________________________________________________________________ > One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page - download MSN Toolbar now! > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: wing construction
Date: Mar 08, 2004
DJ, you and Cy Galley are both absolutely correct. The wing must be free to move when trammeling, otherwise, since the leading edge is not in the plane of the drag/anti-drag wires, any forces put on the wing when tensioning the wires will be resisted by the ribs and leading edge, forcing out-of-plane twists in the wing. For the same reason you certainly don't want the plywood skin on the leading edge before trammeling. It's also not a terribly good idea to glue the ribs to the spars, at least not before tramelling the wing Once the wing is tramelled and square, then attaching the leading edge and the plywood adds a little rigidity to help hold it that way. Jack Phillips > > From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> > Date: 2004/03/08 Mon AM 10:33:20 EST > To: > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing construction > > > I would think you'd want the drag-antidrag wires installed and trammeled > first. The wing will need to move a little when trammeling and if the > leading edge is secured to the ribs it may bind up a little, but I have not > built any wings so my advice may be worth nothing. > > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com> > To: > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 7:05 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing construction > > > > > > Hey guys, I've got a question. Does it matter if the leading edge is > > attached to the wing ribs before the drag/anti-drag wires are attached and > > tightened?. I personally don't think it's a factor but the questioned was > > raised. > > > > Jeff in Texas getting the bbq out > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page - download MSN Toolbar now! > > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: wing construction
I would think if the wing is jigged up true, the leading edge should go on first. It is my impression that the wires take loads due to different angles of attack, etc, and are not meant to be a means of forcing a crooked wing straight. I think. Maybe . . . Jeff Hill wrote: > > > Hey guys, I've got a question. Does it matter if the leading edge is > attached to the wing ribs before the drag/anti-drag wires are attached and > tightened?. I personally don't think it's a factor but the questioned was > raised. > > Jeff in Texas getting the bbq out > > _________________________________________________________________ > One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page download MSN Toolbar now! > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: wing construction
<00a001c40521$6c8bd6e0$f004fea9@new> Curious, i did the opposite, but the wing was in a jig and completely squared up prior to LE and skins. Cy Galley wrote: > > > Wing should be trammeled before the leading edge goes on. This means that > you need to have installed the drag-antidrag wires so to straighten it all > up first. > > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh > Editor, EAA Safety Programs > cgalley(at)qcbc.org or sportpilot(at)eaa.org > > Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com> > To: > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 8:05 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing construction > > > > > Hey guys, I've got a question. Does it matter if the leading edge is > > attached to the wing ribs before the drag/anti-drag wires are attached and > > tightened?. I personally don't think it's a factor but the questioned was > > raised. > > > > Jeff in Texas getting the bbq out > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page - download MSN Toolbar now! > > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Brodhead 2004
Date: Mar 08, 2004
Hey guys, what are the dates for the 75th Anniversary this year at Brodhead? I haven't seen them posted in the Pietenpol Association newsletter. Also, What is on the agenda as of yet? Jeff in Texas Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: Brodhead 2004
Date: Mar 09, 2004
Jeff, The Piet flyin at Brodhead is Friday July 23 to Sunday July 25. The agenda is casual, they will have a couple forums and 4 or 5 meals. Bring tape measure, notepad, camera and pictures of your project. Skip >Hey guys, what are the dates for the 75th Anniversary this year at Brodhead? >I haven't seen them posted in the Pietenpol Association newsletter. Also, >What is on the agenda as of yet? >Jeff in Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Aircamper on Ebay
Date: Mar 09, 2004
I put the new GN-1 I bought last week on ebay. If any of you know someone who may be interested here's the link http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item2465501291 DJ _ = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol Down (but not out)
Date: Mar 09, 2004
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Saturday, My brother went flying on the first warm day.... Hard landing. RH gear failed and collapsed. Minor wing tip scrapage, prop is kindling. No injuries. Steve (Back to piet building again) E ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Down (but not out)
Date: Mar 09, 2004
Steve, what a total bummer......where exactly did the gear leg fail? Can you snap some pics of the failed area? Thank God it wasn't worse! DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Down (but not out) Saturday, My brother went flying on the first warm day.. Hard landing. RH gear failed and collapsed. Minor wing tip scrapage, prop is kindling. No injuries. Steve (Back to piet building again) E = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Down (but not out)
Date: Mar 09, 2004
Steve, I'm tickled about the no injuries part, a tribute to sound construction and a good design, but ouch! Did the gear fail in the steel or the wood? Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:34 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Down (but not out) Saturday, My brother went flying on the first warm day.. Hard landing. RH gear failed and collapsed. Minor wing tip scrapage, prop is kindling. No injuries. Steve (Back to piet building again) E ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 09, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Down (but not out)
du> Steve-- don't let your brother do any more landings:) Kidding-- I'm very glad to hear that you both are ok. That plane has the historic Utah-to-Oshkosh-And-Return trip under it's belt. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Down (but not out)
Date: Mar 09, 2004
Steve, Sorry to hear of the setback. That everyone os OK is the main thing. It's only an airplane. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 1:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Down (but not out) Saturday, My brother went flying on the first warm day.. Hard landing. RH gear failed and collapsed. Minor wing tip scrapage, prop is kindling. No injuries. Steve (Back to piet building again) E ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 09, 2004
From: brian johnson <airferfun(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: the new guy....
I have been following the posts here for a short while now while I get situated in my shop to build a Piet. I have only heard great things about the plane and great things about building them. My particular reason for building a Piet is that from day one the plane gave me a real feel for a nastalgic, old airplane and gives me the feeling that I am stepping into the shoes of the early flying pioneers. I have alot to learn as I get ready to build but the first thing that has caught my attention is the multiple models of the Pietenpol. Would someone please tell me what the GN-1 Aircamper is in regards to the simple Aircamper? Thanks to all for the help and also all the other information I have been getting from this group. Brian (Michgan) --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol Down (but not out)
Date: Mar 09, 2004
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
All- I'll post some more details when I get time to update my site. I was home sewing the interior for the Stinson when it happened. I got a call from my bro stating that "the landing gear has had some trouble"... I got there about 10 minutes later and they had pushed it off the runway. He must have hit pretty hard. He did have a passenger with added to the impact load. It appears from the runway marks and the damage that the bungee strut to fuse connection failed in tension. The weld broke and metal was torn. At that point their was nothing left to hold up the right side of the airplane and the gear "V" tore away from the lugs at the welds somewhere during the 180. Prop and wing tip damage following suit. I'll be carving new prop and repairing the gear as quickly as possible since the weather is just starting to get good. I'll be there for Brodhead and the 75th in the piet. Making the trip with new piet hats to commemorate!! Steve E. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Down (but not out) Steve-- don't let your brother do any more landings:) Kidding-- I'm very glad to hear that you both are ok. That plane has the historic Utah-to-Oshkosh-And-Return trip under it's belt. Mike C. == == == == ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: the new guy.... GN-1 vs. Piet
Date: Mar 09, 2004
go here Brian: http://www.gregagn-1.com/faq.php it'll explain a little about the differences between GN-1 and a real Piet. DJ Vegh www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: brian johnson Subject: Pietenpol-List: the new guy.... I have been following the posts here for a short while now while I get situated in my shop to build a Piet. I have only heard great things about the plane and great things about building them. My particular reason for building a Piet is that from day one the plane gave me a real feel for a nastalgic, old airplane and gives me the feeling that I am stepping into the shoes of the early flying pioneers. I have alot to learn as I get ready to build but the first thing that has caught my attention is the multiple models of the Pietenpol. Would someone please tell me what the GN-1 Aircamper is in regards to the simple Aircamper? Thanks to all for the help and also all the other information I have been getting from this group. Brian (Michgan) = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: the new guy....
Date: Mar 09, 2004
Brian, Welcome! In a way I envy you starting a Piet. Either one you decide to build will be a blast. I built the original long fuselage with prints from Don Pietenpol, with a Cont. A65, And was very pleased with the building process. In the big picture of it all, the main thing is not what you build, but that you did build it. You can always relate to another who built a wood and fabric airplane,,,and flew it! walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: brian johnson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: the new guy.... I have been following the posts here for a short while now while I get situated in my shop to build a Piet. I have only heard great things about the plane and great things about building them. My particular reason for building a Piet is that from day one the plane gave me a real feel for a nastalgic, old airplane and gives me the feeling that I am stepping into the shoes of the early flying pioneers. I have alot to learn as I get ready to build but the first thing that has caught my attention is the multiple models of the Pietenpol. Would someone please tell me what the GN-1 Aircamper is in regards to the simple Aircamper? Thanks to all for the help and also all the other information I have been getting from this group. Brian (Michgan) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Down (but not out)
Date: Mar 09, 2004
----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 11:34 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Down (but not out) Steve, Sorry to hear of the mishap. Get it repaired and we'll fly to Brodhead together! John Saturday, My brother went flying on the first warm day.. Hard landing. RH gear failed and collapsed. Minor wing tip scrapage, prop is kindling. No injuries. Steve (Back to piet building again) E ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2004
Subject: aluminum control horns and such
From: tmbrant1(at)netzero.net
Anyone use something like 1/4" solid alum. control fittings? I was thinking this could be done - laser out the shapes and weld on the attachment sections... Dunno - any opinions? Tom Brant ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2004
Subject: tail sections
From: tmbrant1(at)netzero.net
The wood I used for the fuselage was 1" rough sawn spruce I got from Mckormicks lumber.. When planed, I ended up with 7/8" think boards. For the tail sections I used 1" thk. by 7/8" wide members where 1" sq. members were req'd. Anyone think this will be problem? I know I probably should have checked this before I started but as I saw it, it shouldn't be a problem. I am planning to add 1/8" thk. ply plates to the insided where the hinges mount to the main beams (making them 1" thk. at that point). Just having some second thoughts... I hate deviating from the plans, even a little. Tom Brant ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: aluminum control horns and such
Date: Mar 09, 2004
I see no reason why not. The entire Fisher line of aircraft use 1/8" aluminum control horns. I say go for it.... whats nice about aluminum is standard wood working tools can be used in the fabrication process. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: aluminum control horns and such > > > Anyone use something like 1/4" solid alum. control fittings? I was thinking this could be done - laser out the shapes and weld on the attachment sections... Dunno - any opinions? > > Tom Brant > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: tail sections
Date: Mar 09, 2004
I think you'll be fine so long as the grain tightness of the wood is up to par. Just for point of reference, my dad's Fisher Celebrity has wood longerons made from 3/4 x 7/8, the uprights and diagonals are 1/2 x 3/4", it doesn't have a plywood bottom past the aft seat and it's stressed to +4 -2 G's with a gross of 1230lb. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail sections > > > The wood I used for the fuselage was 1" rough sawn spruce I got from Mckormicks lumber.. When planed, I ended up with 7/8" think boards. For the tail sections I used 1" thk. by 7/8" wide members where 1" sq. members were req'd. Anyone think this will be problem? I know I probably should have checked this before I started but as I saw it, it shouldn't be a problem. I am planning to add 1/8" thk. ply plates to the insided where the hinges mount to the main beams (making them 1" thk. at that point). > > Just having some second thoughts... I hate deviating from the plans, even a little. > > Tom Brant > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 10, 2004
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Down (but not out)
Steve, Sorry to hear about your plane. Thank God it wasn't any worse. I'll bet Andrew feels terrible about it, and will help a lot with the repairs. It's really good to hear you plan on getting 'er back in the air as soon as possible, and making Brodhead this year !! Prop strikes require engine disassemby, inspection, and N.D.I. the crank...that's the tough part. Chuck G. put me down for 3 hats ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 10, 2004
Subject: Re: aluminum control horns and such
In a message dated 3/9/04 10:02:15 PM Central Standard Time, tmbrant1(at)netzero.net writes: << Anyone use something like 1/4" solid alum. control fittings? I was thinking this could be done - laser out the shapes and weld on the attachment sections... Dunno - any opinions? >> Tom, That's a no - no. You're givin' me the hiebie jiebie's !! It might work, but if it doesn't, you're a smoking hole in the ground. Not worth the risk, for all you get. Stick to the plans. Chuck Gantzer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 10, 2004
Subject: Re: tail sections
In a message dated 3/9/04 10:07:22 PM Central Standard Time, tmbrant1(at)netzero.net writes: << The wood I used for the fuselage was 1" rough sawn spruce I got from Mckormicks lumber.. When planed, I ended up with 7/8" think boards. For the tail sections I used 1" thk. by 7/8" wide members where 1" sq. members were req'd. Anyone think this will be problem? I know I probably should have checked this before I started but as I saw it, it shouldn't be a problem. I am planning to add 1/8" thk. ply plates to the insided where the hinges mount to the main beams (making them 1" thk. at that point). Just having some second thoughts... I hate deviating from the plans, even a little. >> Tom, The ribs, and all the cross braces in the fuselage would probably consume the spruce you have for the longerons. Then you can purchase 1" X 1" for the longerons. I would also suggest you stick to the plans dimensions for the tail, too. The plywood you mention to bring it up to 1", is to prevent crushing the trailing edge of the stabilizer, right ? That plywood will do nothing to add to bending strength of that member. Chuck Gantzer ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: engine disassembly
I thought that engine tear down after a prop strike was only required for certificated aircraft ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: aluminum control horns and such
All of my fittings are 6061T6 Aluminum, and the control horns are all made using 90 degree angle and flat plate. I can send photos directly if you would like. tmbrant1(at)netzero.net wrote: > > > Anyone use something like 1/4" solid alum. control fittings? I was thinking this could be done - laser out the shapes and weld on the attachment sections... Dunno - any opinions? > > Tom Brant > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: aluminum control horns and such
Again, you have to do some homework. It is very simple to work out the strength of Al vs steel, and then calculate the thickness required. Pietenpol didn't use steel because it was better, 6061T6 didn't exist back then, and steel was cheap and aval. 1/4" 6061T6 is about 3X stronger than the plans specified steel. Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/9/04 10:02:15 PM Central Standard Time, > tmbrant1(at)netzero.net writes: > > << Anyone use something like 1/4" solid alum. control fittings? I was > thinking this could be done - laser out the shapes and weld on the attachment > sections... Dunno - any opinions? >> > > Tom, > That's a no - no. You're givin' me the hiebie jiebie's !! It might work, > but if it doesn't, you're a smoking hole in the ground. Not worth the risk, > for all you get. Stick to the plans. > > Chuck Gantzer > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: engine disassembly
Date: Mar 10, 2004
Only on certain engine models with metal prop. The small continentals with wood prop seldom are torn down. Might dial the crank but the beauty of a wood prop is that it gives and not the engine. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or sportpilot(at)eaa.org Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: engine disassembly > > I thought that engine tear down after a prop strike was only required for > certificated aircraft ? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: aluminum control horns and such
Date: Mar 10, 2004
My Bellanca with a 216 mph red-line uses 1/8" plate and angle for the aileron horns. Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club Newsletter Editor-in-Chief & EAA TC www.bellanca-championclub.com Actively supporting Aeroncas every day Quarterly newsletters on time Reasonable document reprints ----- Original Message ----- From: "dave rowe" <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aluminum control horns and such > > Again, you have to do some homework. It is very simple to work out the > strength of Al vs steel, and then calculate the thickness required. > Pietenpol didn't use steel because it was better, 6061T6 didn't exist > back then, and steel was cheap and aval. 1/4" 6061T6 is about 3X > stronger than the plans specified steel. > > Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 3/9/04 10:02:15 PM Central Standard Time, > > tmbrant1(at)netzero.net writes: > > > > << Anyone use something like 1/4" solid alum. control fittings? I was > > thinking this could be done - laser out the shapes and weld on the attachment > > sections... Dunno - any opinions? >> > > > > Tom, > > That's a no - no. You're givin' me the hiebie jiebie's !! It might work, > > but if it doesn't, you're a smoking hole in the ground. Not worth the risk, > > for all you get. Stick to the plans. > > > > Chuck Gantzer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Good Luck Steve E!
Date: Mar 10, 2004
Chuck.... No dissassembly required for prop strikes on Experimentals, especially prop strikes with wooden props. Only mandatory on Certified Airplanes and "maybe" an experimental with a Metal prop. I'm sure Steve will dial the crank and that's all he should need to do. The engine was rotating at idle probably too and not generating a lot of damaging energy. Note the fact only one prop blade was wiped out. Good Luck Steve E... I know you guys can get it squared away in time. Weav ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Down (but not out) > > Steve, > Sorry to hear about your plane. Thank God it wasn't any worse. I'll bet > Andrew feels terrible about it, and will help a lot with the repairs. It's > really good to hear you plan on getting 'er back in the air as soon as possible, > and making Brodhead this year !! Prop strikes require engine disassemby, > inspection, and N.D.I. the crank...that's the tough part. > > Chuck G. > put me down for 3 hats > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Good Luck Steve E!
Date: Mar 10, 2004
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
I do want to check the engine and crank for damage. This is out of my area of personal experience (not for long however). I appreciate the input on this topic. The engine turns over by hand normally and there isn't any visible engine damage. I do hope that there isn't any engine damage since that will make a repair much more expensive. I'll get more help locally on this issue, but I'd be interested to learn from folks here, how to 'dial the crank' or make other measurements, and what limits they should be within. I assume that it entails mounting a dial micrometer, and turning the crank, while still in the engine and look for wowies. Simple enough in concept, but what are the finer points? Steve E -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Weaver Subject: Pietenpol-List: Good Luck Steve E! Chuck.... No dissassembly required for prop strikes on Experimentals, especially prop strikes with wooden props. Only mandatory on Certified Airplanes and "maybe" an experimental with a Metal prop. I'm sure Steve will dial the crank and that's all he should need to do. The engine was rotating at idle probably too and not generating a lot of damaging energy. Note the fact only one prop blade was wiped out. Good Luck Steve E... I know you guys can get it squared away in time. Weav ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Down (but not out) > > Steve, > Sorry to hear about your plane. Thank God it wasn't any worse. I'll bet > Andrew feels terrible about it, and will help a lot with the repairs. It's > really good to hear you plan on getting 'er back in the air as soon as possible, > and making Brodhead this year !! Prop strikes require engine disassemby, > inspection, and N.D.I. the crank...that's the tough part. > > Chuck G. > put me down for 3 hats > > == == == == ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Good Luck Steve E!
Date: Mar 10, 2004
Steve.... It really is that simple. AND if the flange isn't bent, (I don't know the limits) I wouldn't tear the engine down at all. Just run it... Weav ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Good Luck Steve E! > > I do want to check the engine and crank for damage. This is out of my > area of personal experience (not for long however). I appreciate the > input on this topic. The engine turns over by hand normally and there > isn't any visible engine damage. I do hope that there isn't any engine > damage since that will make a repair much more expensive. I'll get more > help locally on this issue, but I'd be interested to learn from folks > here, how to 'dial the crank' or make other measurements, and what > limits they should be within. > > I assume that it entails mounting a dial micrometer, and turning the > crank, while still in the engine and look for wowies. Simple enough in > concept, but what are the finer points? > > Steve E > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred > Weaver > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:38 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Good Luck Steve E! > > > > Chuck.... No dissassembly required for prop strikes on Experimentals, > especially prop strikes with wooden props. Only mandatory on Certified > Airplanes and "maybe" an experimental with a Metal prop. I'm sure Steve > will > dial the crank and that's all he should need to do. The engine was > rotating > at idle probably too and not generating a lot of damaging energy. Note > the > fact only one prop blade was wiped out. > > Good Luck Steve E... I know you guys can get it squared away in time. > Weav > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 11:51 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Down (but not out) > > > > > > Steve, > > Sorry to hear about your plane. Thank God it wasn't any worse. I'll > bet > > Andrew feels terrible about it, and will help a lot with the repairs. > It's > > really good to hear you plan on getting 'er back in the air as soon as > possible, > > and making Brodhead this year !! Prop strikes require engine > disassemby, > > inspection, and N.D.I. the crank...that's the tough part. > > > > Chuck G. > > put me down for 3 hats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > == > == > == > == > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: aluminum control horns and such
Date: Mar 10, 2004
Tom, Something to be aware of is the fact that aluminum loses a lot of its strength in the weld zone. For instance, for 6061-T6, the design stress (in bending) drops from 24,000 psi to 14,000 psi within 1 inch of the weld. That's more than 40% loss of strength! And, the welds are usually at the points of greatest stress. Bill --Original Message----- Subject: Pietenpol-List: aluminum control horns and such Anyone use something like 1/4" solid alum. control fittings? I was thinking this could be done - laser out the shapes and weld on the attachment sections... Dunno - any opinions? Tom Brant ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Stapelberg" <norshel(at)mweb.co.za>
Subject: engine disassembly
Date: Mar 10, 2004
Just thought I'd throw this one out there, Lycoming 0-235 lost a blade in flight should the motor be torn down or just dial the crank. Norman ZS-VJA (rebuilding) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cy Galley Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: engine disassembly Only on certain engine models with metal prop. The small continentals with wood prop seldom are torn down. Might dial the crank but the beauty of a wood prop is that it gives and not the engine. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or sportpilot(at)eaa.org Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: engine disassembly > > I thought that engine tear down after a prop strike was only required for > certificated aircraft ? > > == == == == ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2004
From: jimboyer(at)direcway.com
Subject: Re: aluminum control horns and such
Hi Dave, I would appreciate seeing photos of your aluminium fittings if you have them. Managed to knaw mine out of steel but Alum. would sure be easier to use. Thanks, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> Date: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:16 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aluminum control horns and such > > All of my fittings are 6061T6 Aluminum, and the control horns are all > made using 90 degree angle and flat plate. I can send photos directly > if you would like. > > tmbrant1(at)netzero.net wrote: > > > > > > Anyone use something like 1/4" solid alum. control fittings? I > was thinking this could be done - laser out the shapes and weld on > the attachment sections... Dunno - any opinions? > > > > Tom Brant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _- > _- > _- > _- > ======================================================================== > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: aluminum control horns and such
Date: Mar 10, 2004
Tom, Seems to me that , that is alot of work only to get a fitting that might weigh more than the steel one. The steel on the original horns are very thin (forget the guage) and suprisingly light when done. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: aluminum control horns and such > > > Anyone use something like 1/4" solid alum. control fittings? I was thinking this could be done - laser out the shapes and weld on the attachment sections... Dunno - any opinions? > > Tom Brant > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: engine disassembly
Date: Mar 10, 2004
Steve, Around twenty years ago I asked a veteran mechanic if he had ever seen a crankshaft or engine damaged by a wooden propeller strike. Since that time, I have asked at least ten experienced aircraft mechanics the same question and always received the same answer: "Never." Since I have been a licensed aircraft mechanic since 1953, I guess I also fall into the "veteran" category. I have seen lots of engines seriously damaged by a metal propeller strike, but never with a wooden propeller. So long as the crankshaft flange has not contacted anything hard, you should be OK. However, a thorough inspection of just about everything is in order, including: ---checking runout and a dye penetrant inspection of the exposed crankshaft; ---inspecting engine mount and fittings; ---inspecting the upper spar flanges just outboard from the wing strut attach points* for compression failure; ---inspecting the lower longerons near the landing gear attachment points. * On the side that contacted the ground. Tough luck, but it could have been much worse. You should soon be operational again . Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) Alberta, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: engine disassembly
Date: Mar 10, 2004
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Very good suggestions, and I'll take them. One thing I noticed when I removed the prop, The tapered crankshaft is smooth, but has a very fine coating of rust dust. I assume that this isn't a good sign. It wipes off both the crank and the hub, but I expected bare or at least finished metal. Thanks again, Steve e -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Hansen Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: engine disassembly <grhans@cable-lynx.net> Steve, Around twenty years ago I asked a veteran mechanic if he had ever seen a crankshaft or engine damaged by a wooden propeller strike. Since that time, I have asked at least ten experienced aircraft mechanics the same question and always received the same answer: "Never." Since I have been a licensed aircraft mechanic since 1953, I guess I also fall into the "veteran" category. I have seen lots of engines seriously damaged by a metal propeller strike, but never with a wooden propeller. So long as the crankshaft flange has not contacted anything hard, you should be OK. However, a thorough inspection of just about everything is in order, including: ---checking runout and a dye penetrant inspection of the exposed crankshaft; ---inspecting engine mount and fittings; ---inspecting the upper spar flanges just outboard from the wing strut attach points* for compression failure; ---inspecting the lower longerons near the landing gear attachment points. * On the side that contacted the ground. Tough luck, but it could have been much worse. You should soon be operational again . Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) Alberta, Canada == == == == ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Good Luck Steve E!
That is exactly all there is to it. Find an owners/repair manual for the engine, and check the allowable runout on the crankshaft. Compare it to the dial readings. Voila!! (Any chilton auto repair manual will show detailed photos on setting up and using the dial indicator for crankshaft runout. I bet an offer of a six-pack and any of the local mechanics will be happy to show you how. Steve Eldredge wrote: > > > I do want to check the engine and crank for damage. This is out of my > area of personal experience (not for long however). I appreciate the > input on this topic. The engine turns over by hand normally and there > isn't any visible engine damage. I do hope that there isn't any engine > damage since that will make a repair much more expensive. I'll get more > help locally on this issue, but I'd be interested to learn from folks > here, how to 'dial the crank' or make other measurements, and what > limits they should be within. > > I assume that it entails mounting a dial micrometer, and turning the > crank, while still in the engine and look for wowies. Simple enough in > concept, but what are the finer points? > > Steve E > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred > Weaver > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:38 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Good Luck Steve E! > > > > Chuck.... No dissassembly required for prop strikes on Experimentals, > especially prop strikes with wooden props. Only mandatory on Certified > Airplanes and "maybe" an experimental with a Metal prop. I'm sure Steve > will > dial the crank and that's all he should need to do. The engine was > rotating > at idle probably too and not generating a lot of damaging energy. Note > the > fact only one prop blade was wiped out. > > Good Luck Steve E... I know you guys can get it squared away in time. > Weav > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 11:51 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Down (but not out) > > > > > Steve, > > Sorry to hear about your plane. Thank God it wasn't any worse. I'll > bet > > Andrew feels terrible about it, and will help a lot with the repairs. > It's > > really good to hear you plan on getting 'er back in the air as soon as > possible, > > and making Brodhead this year !! Prop strikes require engine > disassemby, > > inspection, and N.D.I. the crank...that's the tough part. > > > > Chuck G. > > put me down for 3 hats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > == > == > == > == > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: aluminum control horns and such
Sur thing, I'll be doing some photos tonight, and sorting through my folders on the computer, and fire off a bunch. I was way too lazy to start bending stuff, so everything is set to use flat plate and angle pieces only, including the pulley brackets for the ailerons. Will fwd photos later tonight or tomorrow, depending on how much I get done in the shop tonight!! jimboyer(at)direcway.com wrote: > > > Hi Dave, > > I would appreciate seeing photos of your aluminium fittings if you have them. > Managed to knaw mine out of steel but Alum. would sure be easier to use. > > Thanks, Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> > Date: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:16 am > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aluminum control horns and such > > > > > All of my fittings are 6061T6 Aluminum, and the control horns are all > > made using 90 degree angle and flat plate. I can send photos directly > > if you would like. > > > > tmbrant1(at)netzero.net wrote: > > > > > > > > > Anyone use something like 1/4" solid alum. control fittings? I > > was thinking this could be done - laser out the shapes and weld on > > the attachment sections... Dunno - any opinions? > > > > > > Tom Brant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _- > > _- > > _- > > _- > > ======================================================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: aluminum control horns and such
Hence the parts that I built that don't require any bending or welding whatsoever. It took one evening to make all of the control horns, hinges, and wing attachment fittings, no special tools required, just my trusty old bandsaw with a $10.00 metal blade, and a drill press. The control columns were a different matter, as welding is involved, I went with steel, entire assembly took one evening, and will cost me a pound of smoked salmon (my other hobby)to get the welds done. Again, if Tom or anyone else would like more info and photos, contact me directly and I'll send. Now that I have worked with both steel and aluminum, I do prefer aluminum for most things, but there is no rocket science to steel either, and if welding is a must, go with the steel. Now, can we discuss wooden wing struts and landing gear??? Still would love to see more input on that issue!! Cheers. Bill Church wrote: > > > Tom, > > Something to be aware of is the fact that aluminum loses a lot of its > strength in the weld zone. For instance, for 6061-T6, the design stress > (in bending) drops from 24,000 psi to 14,000 psi within 1 inch of the > weld. That's more than 40% loss of strength! And, the welds are usually > at the points of greatest stress. > > Bill > > --Original Message----- > Subject: Pietenpol-List: aluminum control horns and such > > > Anyone use something like 1/4" solid alum. control fittings? I was > thinking this could be done - laser out the shapes and weld on the > attachment sections... Dunno - any opinions? > > Tom Brant > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: aluminum control horns and such
<001e01c406dd$d63e1b30$2cc5fea9@home> From me again, if you do all the claculating, you can build in Al, get same strength, and weight, but the difference in either isn't worth worrying about, I think it's just about what you feel more familiar/comfortable working with. For me, avalability and cost were main motivators. We have to pay to dispose of scrap 6061T6, which we have in abundance, so I was able to get my CO's permission to have the guys set aside any scrap in useful sizes. The local supplier will sell to me at a discount, he likes military people and homebuilders, so I just could not justify using steel. Our aircraft structures technicians are definately subject matter experts, and inspect and advise on everything I do. I definately trust their judgement, I fly in the results of their labour almost daily! walt evans wrote: > > > Tom, > Seems to me that , that is alot of work only to get a fitting that might > weigh more than the steel one. The steel on the original horns are very > thin (forget the guage) and suprisingly light when done. > walt evans > NX140DL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:56 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: aluminum control horns and such > > > > > > > Anyone use something like 1/4" solid alum. control fittings? I was > thinking this could be done - laser out the shapes and weld on the > attachment sections... Dunno - any opinions? > > > > Tom Brant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2004
From: Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net>
Subject: Prop strikes
The EAA Chapter 866 (Titusville Florida) Smilin' Jack newsletter contained this descriptive note. It makes Steve's landing gear failure look relatively minor (not that that is any help, Steve). If you are going to run your engine with nobody in the cockpit, TIE THE TAIL TO A TREE. Right here in Oshkosh I can show you a tree (by the EAA chapel) that made a Piper J4 into a sweptwing, a severe mark on a hangar corner some 200 feet from where the airplane started, and several other horror stories. Anyhow, this is a Pietenpol story, so it qualifies for Matt's website. I quote: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Jim Webb told his story about an incident with his Pietenpol. The engine was mounted on the fuselage with his brand new prop on it. Wings were not mounted yet. He was adjusting linkage on the throttle cable and had loosened the nut that jams the cable at the connection point to the linkage on the carburetor. After this with the wheels chocked with 2 x 4s he started the engine. The throttle went wide open and when he pulled the throttle back to idle, it had no effect. The fuselage jumped the chocks and Jim was being dragged around unable to get control. Jim said he tried to steer it into an orange tree but it kept doing 360s in his driveway. Finally it decided it wanted to go into the garage and wreak havoc in there. The prop hit the top of the garage door frame taking some of the prop away. Then it spotted the wings he's built for her and promptly headed for those while dragging Jim along. The prop grabbed the wngs and got hold of the cables and just wrapped them up around the hub and totally destroyed the wings. Jim finally hit the primary switch and shut the engine down. Wow! Luckily, Jim said, I wasn't seriously hurt, the house wasn't destroyed, and no one else was hurt. Jim said that even though the wings were destroyed, no glue joint broke and no pulleys or connection points failed. Jim said I went out and bought a book to read and Beatrice and I got in the motorhome and went to Sebring for three days . . . . . Good attitude Jim! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Doc Mosher do not archive Oshkosh USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: aluminum control horns and such
Date: Mar 10, 2004
----- Original Message ----- From: <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: aluminum control horns and such ================================== Tom, You certainly might do this, after of course, doing some elementary stress calculations to see if the aluminum would carry the anticipated loads. BTW, I think that I heard or read someplace that Bernard Pietenpol actually used the steel from discarded 55 gal drums to make some of his fittings! John ================================== > > > Anyone use something like 1/4" solid alum. control fittings? I was thinking this could be done - laser out the shapes and weld on the attachment sections... Dunno - any opinions? > > Tom Brant > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Prop strikes
Date: Mar 10, 2004
Doc, I don't understand why you included the "do not arc****" phrase. This is a great story (except for Jim) and it may save an airplane or two, and possibly somebody's life . Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop strikes > > The EAA Chapter 866 (Titusville Florida) Smilin' Jack newsletter contained > this descriptive note. It makes Steve's landing gear failure look > relatively minor (not that that is any help, Steve). If you are going to > run your engine with nobody in the cockpit, TIE THE TAIL TO A TREE. Right > here in Oshkosh I can show you a tree (by the EAA chapel) that made a Piper > J4 into a sweptwing, a severe mark on a hangar corner some 200 feet from > where the airplane started, and several other horror stories. > > Anyhow, this is a Pietenpol story, so it qualifies for Matt's website. I > quote: > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Jim Webb told his story about an incident with his Pietenpol. The engine > was mounted on the fuselage with his brand new prop on it. Wings were not > mounted yet. He was adjusting linkage on the throttle cable and had > loosened the nut that jams the cable at the connection point to the linkage > on the carburetor. After this with the wheels chocked with 2 x 4s he > started the engine. The throttle went wide open and when he pulled the > throttle back to idle, it had no effect. The fuselage jumped the chocks > and Jim was being dragged around unable to get control. Jim said he tried > to steer it into an orange tree but it kept doing 360s in his > driveway. Finally it decided it wanted to go into the garage and wreak > havoc in there. The prop hit the top of the garage door frame taking some > of the prop away. Then it spotted the wings he's built for her and > promptly headed for those while dragging Jim along. The prop grabbed the > wngs and got hold of the cables and just wrapped them up around the hub and > totally destroyed the wings. Jim finally hit the primary switch and shut > the engine down. Wow! Luckily, Jim said, I wasn't seriously hurt, the > house wasn't destroyed, and no one else was hurt. Jim said that even > though the wings were destroyed, no glue joint broke and no pulleys or > connection points failed. Jim said I went out and bought a book to read > and Beatrice and I got in the motorhome and went to Sebring for three days > . . . . . > Good attitude Jim! > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > Doc Mosher > Oshkosh USA > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: nicopress strength - wow!
Date: Mar 10, 2004
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Date: Mar 11, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: rust dust
du> Steve-- when I balanced and tracked my wood prop last spring I too found what you are talking about on the exposed tapered portion of my tapered crankshaft on our A-65 Continental. I simply smeared a light coating of grease over the whole thing and wiped off the excess before re-installing the prop. I also gave the inside of the prop hub the same treatment. In addition I dipped my prop bolts in varnish before inserting them and applying torque to the bolts. The front plate too was a bit rusty so I cleaned it up and put a clear coat of spray clear over it to keep it purty. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: how do you turn the engine without a prop ?
Maybe a dumb question, but I get all the dial indicator setup on how to check for a bent crank or to see if a crank rotates within tolerance, but on a flanged crank for the 65 where to you grip to turn it or what do you use ? Perhaps this procedure is done with the prop in place ? Thank you Graham Hansen for staying on the list with us----you are one amazing guy (and contribute some great wisdom to the list) that has flown soooooe many Piet hours over so many years. You must be the highest Piet time pilot in the world. Literally. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2004
From: John Myers <jmyers(at)powernet.org>
?
Subject: Re: how do you turn the engine without a prop ?
<5.1.1.5.2.20040311074555.025b3e08(at)popserve.grc.nasa.gov> Mike, I am sure there are more scientific ways but I just put a scrap piece of 3/4 ply about 3 foot long and 6 or 8 inches wide on an old prop for a template and then drilled it to fit the flange. Bolt it on and I have about a 3 foot "bat" of ply to pull the engine through with the dial indicator on the back outer side of the flange. It helps to pull the plugs to keep from shaking things too much when dialing the crank. Hope that helps. A big hole saw for the center and a drill bit for the bolt pattern is all that is needed to drill it. It is one of those homemade tools that stays in the hangar with the special jacking tools, vacuum pump bent and ground off wrench etc. John At 06:48 AM 3/11/2004, you wrote: > > >Maybe a dumb question, but I get all the dial indicator setup on how to >check for a bent crank or >to see if a crank rotates within tolerance, but on a flanged crank for the >65 where to you grip to turn >it or what do you use ? Perhaps this procedure is done with the prop in >place ? > >Thank you Graham Hansen for staying on the list with us----you are one >amazing guy (and contribute >some great wisdom to the list) that has flown >soooooe many Piet hours over so many years. You must be the highest Piet >time pilot in the world. >Literally. > >Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________ ?
Subject: how do you turn the engine without a prop ?
Date: Mar 11, 2004
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
You could take the stop screw out of the hub, and screw it alone back on the shaft and turn it with a lever through the holes. If an axle nut was the same thread that might work. I also noticed the front end of the crank looks like it has a large slot in it. You would need one large screwdriver. Thanks for the posts guys. It does make me feel better... Steve e\ -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: how do you turn the engine without a prop ? Maybe a dumb question, but I get all the dial indicator setup on how to check for a bent crank or to see if a crank rotates within tolerance, but on a flanged crank for the 65 where to you grip to turn it or what do you use ? Perhaps this procedure is done with the prop in place ? Thank you Graham Hansen for staying on the list with us----you are one amazing guy (and contribute some great wisdom to the list) that has flown soooooe many Piet hours over so many years. You must be the highest Piet time pilot in the world. Literally. Mike C. == == == == ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: engine disassembly
Date: Mar 11, 2004
Steve, Put some lapping compound between the hub and the crankshaft without the key installed. Line the hub key slot with the slot int he crank and lap back in forth about 30 degrees either side of each other. This will make for a better taper fit and illuminate most of the "gap". Be sure to clean the lapping compound off when you are done. Chris Bobka ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: engine disassembly > > > Very good suggestions, and I'll take them. One thing I noticed when I > removed the prop, The tapered crankshaft is smooth, but has a very fine > coating of rust dust. I assume that this isn't a good sign. It wipes > off both the crank and the hub, but I expected bare or at least finished > > metal. > > Thanks again, > > Steve e > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham > Hansen > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 2:29 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: engine disassembly > > <grhans@cable-lynx.net> > > Steve, > > Around twenty years ago I asked a veteran mechanic if he had ever seen a > crankshaft or engine damaged by a wooden propeller strike. Since that > time, > I have asked at least ten experienced aircraft mechanics the same > question > and always received the same answer: > > "Never." > > Since I have been a licensed aircraft mechanic since 1953, I guess I > also > fall into the "veteran" category. I have seen lots of engines seriously > damaged by a metal propeller strike, but never with a wooden propeller. > So > long as the crankshaft flange has not contacted anything hard, you > should be > OK. > > However, a thorough inspection of just about everything is in order, > including: > > ---checking runout and a dye penetrant inspection of the exposed > crankshaft; > ---inspecting engine mount and fittings; > ---inspecting the upper spar flanges just outboard from the wing strut > attach points* for compression failure; > ---inspecting the lower longerons near the landing gear attachment > points. > > * On the side that contacted the ground. > > Tough luck, but it could have been much worse. You should soon be > operational again . > > Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) Alberta, Canada > > > == > == > == > == > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
<6.0.1.1.0.20040311072707.01b9eec0(at)mail.powernet.org> ?
Subject: Re: how do you turn the engine without a prop ?
Date: Mar 11, 2004
Steve, As you turn the crank, make sure that you have the crank pressed in to the case all the way so you don't have crankshaft end play counting into your runout reading. chris bobka ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Myers" <jmyers(at)powernet.org> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how do you turn the engine without a prop ? > > > Mike, I am sure there are more scientific ways but I just put a scrap piece > of 3/4 ply about 3 foot long and 6 or 8 inches wide on an old prop for a > template and then drilled it to fit the flange. Bolt it on and I have > about a 3 foot "bat" of ply to pull the engine through with the dial > indicator on the back outer side of the flange. It helps to pull the plugs > to keep from shaking things too much when dialing the crank. > Hope that helps. A big hole saw for the center and a drill bit for the > bolt pattern is all that is needed to drill it. It is one of those > homemade tools that stays in the hangar with the special jacking tools, > vacuum pump bent and ground off wrench etc. > > John > > At 06:48 AM 3/11/2004, you wrote: > > > > > >Maybe a dumb question, but I get all the dial indicator setup on how to > >check for a bent crank or > >to see if a crank rotates within tolerance, but on a flanged crank for the > >65 where to you grip to turn > >it or what do you use ? Perhaps this procedure is done with the prop in > >place ? > > > >Thank you Graham Hansen for staying on the list with us----you are one > >amazing guy (and contribute > >some great wisdom to the list) that has flown > >soooooe many Piet hours over so many years. You must be the highest Piet > >time pilot in the world. > >Literally. > > > >Mike C. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: nicopress strength - wow!
<006d01c40732$f4bea2f0$d2a86d44@Desktop> I'm like you, doing a lot of metalwork right now, and loving it. I was a little nervous, my woodworking background is very strong, but not a lot of welding, cutting, etc. My R/C stuff is big, but not that big. Most people seem to go overboard on the fittings, even though the wood they're attached to is probably the weakest link. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2004
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
?
Subject: Re: how do you turn the engine without a prop ?
Get one spark plug off each cilinder, attach two bolts to the flange in oposite positions and turn the engine with a wooden 2 x 2 or broom stick, no compression to fight and no danger of firing, an extra safety, switch off... Saludos Gary Gower --- Michael D Cuy wrote: > > > Maybe a dumb question, but I get all the dial indicator setup on how > to > check for a bent crank or > to see if a crank rotates within tolerance, but on a flanged crank > for the > 65 where to you grip to turn > it or what do you use ? Perhaps this procedure is done with the prop > in > place ? > > Thank you Graham Hansen for staying on the list with us----you are > one > amazing guy (and contribute > some great wisdom to the list) that has flown > soooooe many Piet hours over so many years. You must be the highest > Piet > time pilot in the world. > Literally. > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
<4050FD6F.F2B30246(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: pulley cable guards
Date: Mar 11, 2004
where can I find pre-made pulley cable guards? DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 11, 2004
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Down (but not out)
Steve. Sorry to hear of the setback. Thank the Lord it wasn't worse. A couple of comments. 1) I would not necessarily tear the engine down. But like the others suggest, do check for bent crank and runout using a dial caliper. 2) ALSO, I haven't seen anyone mention it, but I would do a dye-penetrant inspection on the prop flange and the prop hub key (if yours is a tapered shaft). 3) AND, I'd probably pitch the prop bolts and get new ones. Terry B ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
?
Subject: Re: how do you turn the engine without a prop ?
Date: Mar 11, 2004
Mike, Wouldn't just installing a new prop and tracking it tell the tale? You are right about Graham. One piece of advice he gave me was to put a magneto kill switch on the outside of the cowling so you could shut it down from where you prop it if something is amiss. Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: how do you turn the engine without a prop ? > > Maybe a dumb question, but I get all the dial indicator setup on how to > check for a bent crank or > to see if a crank rotates within tolerance, but on a flanged crank for the > 65 where to you grip to turn > it or what do you use ? Perhaps this procedure is done with the prop in > place ? > > Thank you Graham Hansen for staying on the list with us----you are one > amazing guy (and contribute > some great wisdom to the list) that has flown > soooooe many Piet hours over so many years. You must be the highest Piet > time pilot in the world. > Literally. > > Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 12, 2004
Subject: Pitot tube installation
Pieters: I hope I'm not bringing up a worn out subject, but I've run a couple of searches with no results. Where do most builders mount the pitot tube on an Aircamper? I am aware of the vane type airspeed indicator and I plan to incorporate one (mainly for nostalgic purposes), but I'm also installing a nicely rebuilt conventional, modern airspeed indicator. If left to my own devices, I would mount it on the leading edge of the left wing, but I wonder about the subtleties that are not obvious. Any comments?...Carl Vought ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Paulsen" <dpaul(at)fidnet.com>
Subject: Brake Disc Assembly
Date: Mar 12, 2004
Dear List, I bought Michael Cuy's video and saw that Michael used go-cart brakes on his Piet. I've found a web site Mowerzone(at)smallengines.CC - which has a Disc Brake Assembly that looks like it might work. But I'm not sure if it's big enough. The description says it's for use on riding lawn mowers, mini-bikes and snowmobiles. It costs less than $13.00 /brake. It looks right to me, but before I order I would like to hear from someone who may have some experience with this. Thanks - Dave Paulsen in Missouri ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Brake Disc Assembly
Date: Mar 12, 2004
Dave, I used the drum brakes. 5" (I think) They are plenty to do runup and hold on the taxiway. Always heard horror stories of nose over. Got mine here,,, http://www.apskarting.com/ Guess they still have them. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: David Paulsen To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 1:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brake Disc Assembly Dear List, I bought Michael Cuy's video and saw that Michael used go-cart brakes on his Piet. I've found a web site Mowerzone(at)smallengines.CC - which has a Disc Brake Assembly that looks like it might work. But I'm not sure if it's big enough. The description says it's for use on riding lawn mowers, mini-bikes and snowmobiles. It costs less than $13.00 /brake. It looks right to me, but before I order I would like to hear from someone who may have some experience with this. Thanks - Dave Paulsen in Missouri ________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 12, 2004
Subject: The second easiest rib question
Would someone please confirm my counting? I count 30 total ribs needed for the 3 piece wing, including 6 end ribs with the extra braces. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
<4050FD6F.F2B30246(at)shaw.ca> <000501c407db$2d9358c0$d2a86d44@Desktop>
Subject: dihedral - how much?
Date: Mar 12, 2004
For those of you with 3 piece wings.... what dihedral angle are you running? The GN-1 plans give no indication of how much. I'm going to make my lift struts next Wednesday and need to determine dihedral before then. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
<4050FD6F.F2B30246(at)shaw.ca> <000501c407db$2d9358c0$d2a86d44@Desktop>
Subject: Washout??
Date: Mar 12, 2004
Is anyone running any washout in their wings? If so how much? DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Pitot tube installation
Date: Mar 12, 2004
----- Original Message ----- From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 6:21 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pitot tube installation Carl, Mount it on your jury strut, about 6" below the wing. I think you will get the most accuracy in this location. John Pieters: I hope I'm not bringing up a worn out subject, but I've run a couple of searches with no results. Where do most builders mount the pitot tube on an Aircamper? I am aware of the vane type airspeed indicator and I plan to incorporate one (mainly for nostalgic purposes), but I'm also installing a nicely rebuilt conventional, modern airspeed indicator. If left to my own devices, I would mount it on the leading edge of the left wing, but I wonder about the subtleties that are not obvious. Any comments?...Carl Vought ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
<4050FD6F.F2B30246(at)shaw.ca> <000501c407db$2d9358c0$d2a86d44@Desktop> <007201c408a5$b3b69550$d2a86d44@Desktop>
Subject: Re: Washout??
Date: Mar 13, 2004
DJ, Here is a response I got from Chuck G. to the same question last year. I saved it in my goodstuff folder. Bob B. - Missouri In a message dated 9/6/03 8:40:23 AM Central Daylight Time, baileys(at)ktis.net writes: << I haven't started construction so I'm spending a lot of armchair time with the plans. My question is; what is the correct amount of washout and how do you establish it? Is it done when the putting the ribs on the spars or while mating the wings to the fuselage? Also what serves as a reference point? Bob B. - Missouri >> Bob, Washout is a twist in the wing, where the leading edge of the outboard portion of the wing is twisted to a lower angle of incidence than the inboard portion, causing the inboard portion to reach it's Critical Angle of Attack before the outboard portion. Angle of incidence is the angle between the Mean Aerodynamic Chord (MAC) of the wing, and the longitude 0 of the fuselage - on the Piet it's the top of the longerons at the cockpits. On the Pietenpol the angle of incidence is set with the difference in length of the cabane struts - the front ones are 1" longer than the back ones, making about a 3 angle of positive incidence. The purpose of washout is to ensure the inboard portion of the wing is location where the stall begins, leaving the outboard aileron portion to be the last part of the wing to stall, thus maintaining aileron control until the entire wing is stalled. Now comes the kicker: On a hearshey bar wing - constant chord, straight wing -, the stall naturally occurs at the inboard portion of the wing, therefore washout is not really required. Just rig the entire wing at the same angle of incidence as the inboard portion, where the cabane struts are, by the length of the lift struts. Although, it could be recomended to err the tips toward a lower angle of incidence. The wing twists easily, till the lift struts & cables are installed. On wings where the leading edge is swept, or the trailing edge is swept forward (tapered wings), or the entire wing is swept (like on jets) is where washout really is needed, because sweeping the wing back causes the tips to stall first. Chuck G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Washout?? > > Is anyone running any washout in their wings? If so how much? > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: The second easiest rib question
Date: Mar 13, 2004
I made 30 ribs and ended up with one left over. It is now a conversation piece in my office. The only ribs with the extra bracing are the two outer tip ribs. Greg Cardinal P.S. Walt Evans has nice pictures of his plane in the latest issue of "To Fly" ----- Original Message ----- From: At7000ft(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: The second easiest rib question Would someone please confirm my counting? I count 30 total ribs needed for the 3 piece wing, including 6 end ribs with the extra braces. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
<4050FD6F.F2B30246(at)shaw.ca> <000501c407db$2d9358c0$d2a86d44@Desktop> <006c01c408a5$90cdd0d0$d2a86d44@Desktop>
Subject: Re: dihedral - how much?
Date: Mar 13, 2004
Hi DJ, Dale and I built in about 2" of dihedral and between 1/2" and 3/4" of washout. I don't have that in degrees. Next time I would skip the dihedral and stick with anhedral per the plans. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: dihedral - how much? > > For those of you with 3 piece wings.... what dihedral angle are you > running? The GN-1 plans give no indication of how much. I'm going to make > my lift struts next Wednesday and need to determine dihedral before then. > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > - > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: The second easiest rib question
Date: Mar 13, 2004
I hope so, I just built 30 of them. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: At7000ft(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: The second easiest rib question Would someone please confirm my counting? I count 30 total ribs needed for the 3 piece wing, including 6 end ribs with the extra braces. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
<4050FD6F.F2B30246(at)shaw.ca> <000501c407db$2d9358c0$d2a86d44@Desktop> <006c01c408a5$90cdd0d0$d2a86d44@Desktop>
Subject: Re: dihedral - how much?
Date: Mar 13, 2004
----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: dihedral - how much? ==================================== DJ, The original Pietenpol with the one piece wing had no dihedral, of course. The 3 pc wing came along because it was easier to build in a restricted space, and then someone decided to use this modification to put in just an inch or so of dihedral so as to eliminate the "drooped wing" appearance of the one piece wing. I understand that there is no discernable difference in the flight characteristics with or without dihedral. John ======================================= > > For those of you with 3 piece wings.... what dihedral angle are you > running? The GN-1 plans give no indication of how much. I'm going to make > my lift struts next Wednesday and need to determine dihedral before then. > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > - > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 13, 2004
Subject: Re: The second easiest rib question
In a message dated 3/13/2004 8:27:53 AM Central Standard Time, At7000ft(at)aol.com writes: > Would someone please confirm my counting? I count 30 total ribs needed for > the 3 piece wing, including 6 end ribs with the extra braces. > > Thanks > Hi: You need to make 31ribs for the three piece wing. The 31st one is for hanging on the wall in your den/office. It truly is a work of art, and makes a great conversation piece. Max Davis Arlington, TX. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cory Emberson" <bootless(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Exteriors)
Date: Mar 13, 2004
Hello! I am writing an article for Kitplanes magazine that will feature builders who have distinctive interiors and/or exteriors. My deadline is rather short, so if you could email me as soon as possible, hopefully by Tuesday, that will give me enough time to put it together. Here are some of the criteria I'm looking for: Interiors that are (one or any combination): 1. creative 2. inexpensive 3. very comfortable 4. lightweight 5. generally cool and different 6. distinctive in some way. Exteriors that are: 1.. stunningly attractive 2.. original design 3.. historically accurate 4.. distinctive in some way Other things to keep in mind: 1. How you came to design your interior/exterior (How you got your idea) 2. The reasons why you did it as you did 3. What benefits you had in mind 4. Any unexpected benefits (and/or pitfalls) there were 5. What you learned 6. How many hours you've flown with it (if completed) 7. How much of the work did you do yourself? 8. Did you have any professional assistance? How much? 9. The equipment and tools you used 10. How much time it took to build and install 11. The cost of building it. 12. Would you do it again the same way? Why? Here are the photo requirements for Kitplanes: Photos must be 300 dpi at a size large enough to use in the magazine, which is usually at least 3 x 3 inches. If an image is 300 dpi at 1 x 1 inch, it won't be big enough to do any good. Hard copy photos are good, too. Thanks so much - I really appreciate your help! best regards, Cory Emberson Hayward, CA [KHWD] 510.599.4409 cory(at)lightspeededit.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: The second easiest rib question
I've only got 28, but have two half-ribs, due to putting a tank in the centre section, so 30 sounds right. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: dihedral - how much?
<006d01c40732$f4bea2f0$d2a86d44@Desktop> <4050FD6F.F2B30246(at)shaw.ca> <000501c407db$2d9358c0$d2a86d44@Desktop> <006c01c408a5$90cdd0d0$d2a86d44@Desktop> Good question, I assumed ther wouldn't be any, as the 1 pce doesn't have any. . . DJ Vegh wrote: > > > For those of you with 3 piece wings.... what dihedral angle are you > running? The GN-1 plans give no indication of how much. I'm going to make > my lift struts next Wednesday and need to determine dihedral before then. > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > - > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: wing washout & dihedral
Date: Mar 13, 2004
DJ asks about wing washout and dihedral for his GN-1. Not sure what the Grega plans call for, but the Pietenpol plans and manual are pretty much for a straight wing. Zero washout and essentially zero dihedral (although the manual suggests rigging the wings with a tad extra 'up' at the tips so that when everything is buttoned down and the wings' weight is released from slings or braces holding them up at rigging, they will relax down to essentially zero dihedral). Others have used a little dihedral to good effect; witness Mike Cuy's and others. There has been plenty of discussion on this and a search on 'dihedral' on the archives will keep you reading for a while. PS- I note several Piet pictures and clips in the latest issue of "To Fly", including Walt Evans, who looks younger than he sounds here on the list. (Did I say that right?) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: wing washout & dihedral
Date: Mar 13, 2004
Thanks for the response gents.... I keep forgetting how useful searching the archive is. Just spent the last 30 minutes readin olds posts about dihedral. I think I'm gonna run 1.5 of dihedral and 0.3 of washout. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing washout & dihedral > > DJ asks about wing washout and dihedral for his GN-1. > > Not sure what the Grega plans call for, but the Pietenpol plans and manual > are pretty much for a straight wing. Zero washout and essentially zero > dihedral (although the manual suggests rigging the wings with a tad extra > 'up' at the tips so that when everything is buttoned down and the wings' > weight is released from slings or braces holding them up at rigging, they > will relax down to essentially zero dihedral). > > Others have used a little dihedral to good effect; witness Mike Cuy's and > others. There has been plenty of discussion on this and a search on > 'dihedral' on the archives will keep you reading for a while. > > PS- I note several Piet pictures and clips in the latest issue of "To Fly", > including Walt Evans, who looks younger than he sounds here on the list. > (Did I say that right?) > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Sport Pilot errata
Date: Mar 13, 2004
Just a couple interesting hangar-flying things... At the TICO airshow today I stopped in the Aero-Adventures tent (they guys that make the Sventura series among other neat planes) and talked to a gentleman who's going to be doing SP training soon. He said the total cost for someone off the street to get their SP license will be about $850 (no I didn't forget a number there!) Ten lessons at $85 apiece, with no time limit... you work on the lesson until you understand and can do what you need to know how to do. This floored me... that's less than 25% of the current cost of PPL training! No wonder that the FBO's refuse to acknowledge that Sport Pilot even exists. (In fact, 3 weeks ago the local FBO told me that the reason they weren't going to offer any SP training was "we don't have any high-performance instructors available." Umm, yeah, whatever.) He said he didn't expect too many problems with being able to rent SP planes or in getting insurance... not too sure about that, at least for a while, but we'll see. After hearing that, for the rest of today all my wife could talk about was how now we could both get our licenses soon. and when were we going to get started on the Piet? She almost beat me when I mentioned other neat plane ideas that crossed my mind... "No! I'm all excited about the Pietenpol! You got me daydreaming about it! Dang it, that's gotta be first, THEN you can build something else!!" Well, I guess that settles THAT! :) I also talked to EAA HQ on Thursday, the gentleman there said that they're expecting Sport Pilot to be published by late April if we're lucky (but not to count on that, of course.) They also expect the weight limit to be raised a little bit (maybe to 1300 lbs) and suspect that FAA will phase in various aspects of it over a period of time... ie, existing private pilots who wish to fly as sport pilots will be able to do that first, since there's little infrastructure required, with other types of sport flying to be brought online at prescribed intervals. They sound pretty enthusiastic about it all. I know this has little to do with Pietenpols, except that I bet a lot of you like Bird Dogs and L-4s and the like. Anyone interested in Forward Air Controllers and their history (going back to balloons and biplanes) might be interested to know that the very first ever FAC Museum is getting started, and we desperately need support soon to help it get off the ground. Only $20 and you're a charter member. Details at http://www.ov-10bronco.net/ - tell 'em Merlin sent you. -Mike Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association http://www.ov-10bronco.net/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
(Interiors/Exteriors)
Subject: Re: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Exteriors)
Date: Mar 13, 2004
Cory, How about this for an interior. It is the instrument panel for the Air Camper Dale Johnson and I are building. The front cockpit panel features a veneer that is matched to the rear panel. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Cory Emberson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 5:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Exteriors) Hello! I am writing an article for Kitplanes magazine that will feature builders who have distinctive interiors and/or exteriors. My deadline is rather short, so if you could email me as soon as possible, hopefully by Tuesday, that will give me enough time to put it together. Here are some of the criteria I'm looking for: Interiors that are (one or any combination): 1. creative 2. inexpensive 3. very comfortable 4. lightweight 5. generally cool and different 6. distinctive in some way. Exteriors that are: 1.. stunningly attractive 2.. original design 3.. historically accurate 4.. distinctive in some way Other things to keep in mind: 1. How you came to design your interior/exterior (How you got your idea) 2. The reasons why you did it as you did 3. What benefits you had in mind 4. Any unexpected benefits (and/or pitfalls) there were 5. What you learned 6. How many hours you've flown with it (if completed) 7. How much of the work did you do yourself? 8. Did you have any professional assistance? How much? 9. The equipment and tools you used 10. How much time it took to build and install 11. The cost of building it. 12. Would you do it again the same way? Why? Here are the photo requirements for Kitplanes: Photos must be 300 dpi at a size large enough to use in the magazine, which is usually at least 3 x 3 inches. If an image is 300 dpi at 1 x 1 inch, it won't be big enough to do any good. Hard copy photos are good, too. Thanks so much - I really appreciate your help! best regards, Cory Emberson Hayward, CA [KHWD] 510.599.4409 cory(at)lightspeededit.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
(Interiors/Exteriors)
Subject: Re: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Exteriors)
Date: Mar 14, 2004
Greg, The woodworking is Beautiful! Just looking around, think you might have trouble with the inspector on the throttle linkage. Because it's a moving/critical assy, would have to be a castle nut w/cotter pin. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 12:33 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Exteriors) Cory, How about this for an interior. It is the instrument panel for the Air Camper Dale Johnson and I are building. The front cockpit panel features a veneer that is matched to the rear panel. Greg Cardinal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: wing washout & dihedral
Date: Mar 14, 2004
Oscar, You said that perfect!! Thank you (the check is in the mail) : ) Yeah, it was pretty cool following an article about Paul flying one of my favorite planes (like my instructor had flown in WWll), And across from the plane I'd like to build some day. The Aeronca C3. For any of you who haven't joined the SAA, it's a great magazine. If nothing else I ordered the past issues, which you can get for just a donation! It's some of the best reading on flying ever. Sorry to say that even Kitplane Mag has gone the way of Lancairs, and Metal rockets. As for the dihedral, thats exactly what happened to me. I rigged everything at zero/flat but in final assy with the weight of the wings, and the tensioning of wires, and the tollerences in strut bolt holes, the wings have a slight droop in them. walt evans NX140DL PS the pic on the scales was pre-moving wing back. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing washout & dihedral > > DJ asks about wing washout and dihedral for his GN-1. > > Not sure what the Grega plans call for, but the Pietenpol plans and manual > are pretty much for a straight wing. Zero washout and essentially zero > dihedral (although the manual suggests rigging the wings with a tad extra > 'up' at the tips so that when everything is buttoned down and the wings' > weight is released from slings or braces holding them up at rigging, they > will relax down to essentially zero dihedral). > > Others have used a little dihedral to good effect; witness Mike Cuy's and > others. There has been plenty of discussion on this and a search on > 'dihedral' on the archives will keep you reading for a while. > > PS- I note several Piet pictures and clips in the latest issue of "To Fly", > including Walt Evans, who looks younger than he sounds here on the list. > (Did I say that right?) > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 14, 2004
Subject: Re: The second easiest rib question
So you have 28 full ribs in your wing, that is the same number as the one piece wing. You have 2 full ribs in your center section, and 13 ribs in the left and right wings correct? I've only got 28, but have two half-ribs, due to putting a tank in the centre section, so 30 sounds right. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 14, 2004
(Interiors/Ext...
Subject: Re: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Ext...
Beautiful interior Greg, what kind of wood did you use on the instrument panel? Seeing the hand turned knobs makes me want to go out a get a wood lathe. Rick Holland How about this for an interior. It is the instrument panel for the Air Camper Dale Johnson and I are building. The front cockpit panel features a veneer that is matched to the rear panel. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: data plate
Date: Mar 14, 2004
Who was it that has data plates for sale? I need one. I ordered the plate from Wicks and installed it, this is the one that goes on the exterior near the tail. My check list from the FAA says aluminum is not acceptable for this plate. Also there is no space on that plate for the builders name. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
<001301c409cb$0380cbc0$2cc5fea9@home> (Interiors/Exteriors)
Subject: Re: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Exteriors)
Date: Mar 14, 2004
The throttle linkage is bolted through a rod end bearing so it isn't considered a rotating joint. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 7:48 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Exteriors) Greg, The woodworking is Beautiful! Just looking around, think you might have trouble with the inspector on the throttle linkage. Because it's a moving/critical assy, would have to be a castle nut w/cotter pin. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 12:33 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Exteriors) Cory, How about this for an interior. It is the instrument panel for the Air Camper Dale Johnson and I are building. The front cockpit panel features a veneer that is matched to the rear panel. Greg Cardinal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
(Interiors/Ext...
Subject: Re: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Ext...
Date: Mar 14, 2004
It is burled black walnut veneer. And I want everyone to know that Dale Johnson, my building partner, is responsible for the furniture quality work. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: At7000ft(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Ext... Beautiful interior Greg, what kind of wood did you use on the instrument panel? Seeing the hand turned knobs makes me want to go out a get a wood lathe. Rick Holland How about this for an interior. It is the instrument panel for the Air Camper Dale Johnson and I are building. The front cockpit panel features a veneer that is matched to the rear panel. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: data plate
Date: Mar 14, 2004
Got mine from Aircraft Spruce. It's made out of stainless (CRES). If you don't have a catalog,,,it's free. Just go on their site and follow the free catalog thing. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 12:55 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: data plate Who was it that has data plates for sale? I need one. I ordered the plate from Wicks and installed it, this is the one that goes on the exterior near the tail. My check list from the FAA says aluminum is not acceptable for this plate. Also there is no space on that plate for the builders name. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 14, 2004
Subject: Need a little help
Pieters, When I built 41CC one of the highest hurdles and time consuming projects was the fabrication and installation of the fuel plumbing particularly the cut off valve and remote control. I am at that stage again and would like as many solutions as you would feel free to share with me. I have an 18 gal fuse tank just rear of the fire wall. I need a on-off valve easy enough to operate with a push pull wire. Thanks Corky in La ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: The second easiest rib question
No, the wing centre section is 48", with four full ribs, and two half-ribs for the fuel tank space. Tank is kevlar, one-piece molded into the centre section. Twelve ribs in each oute section. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: data plate
Date: Mar 14, 2004
There was someone on the list who had a very nice plate made. I'm trying to find that one. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 4:22 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: data plate Got mine from Aircraft Spruce. It's made out of stainless (CRES). If you don't have a catalog,,,it's free. Just go on their site and follow the free catalog thing. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 12:55 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: data plate Who was it that has data plates for sale? I need one. I ordered the plate from Wicks and installed it, this is the one that goes on the exterior near the tail. My check list from the FAA says aluminum is not acceptable for this plate. Also there is no space on that plate for the builders name. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Antique Instruments
<000c01c40a12$d3c37e30$2cc5fea9@home> Someone sent a link for instruments a while back, and I'll be damned if I can find it. Could someone send any links for antique-looking isntruments. Thanks, Dave Rowe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Photo posting etiquette - please check your attached file
sizes!
Date: Mar 15, 2004
Folks, I love the neat pictures that get posted here, but there's no reason at all to post a 1+ megabyte JPG or GIF file here! That's why so many folks have complained about this new feature. If you don't have broadband internet access, 1MB is a big hit to the download time, and it's a big waste of hard drive space no matter how you're connected. JPEG files have a quality setting built in (it has to do with how much the image is compressed - the more compression, the more data you lose in the image.) But believe it or not, you're quite unlikely to see any significant difference between "full quality" (10) and "low quality" (3) unless you're printing it out on a photo-quality printer or you're zooming way in and greatly enlarging a little piece of it. However, the "low quality" version of an image is a tiny fraction of the size of the full-size, full-resolution file. An 800x600 size JPG photo can easily be 50K or less at a lower quality setting, while 60% quality or greater can easily push it well into the megabyte range. 99.5% of all viewers can't see any difference between them. Virtually all digital cameras and scanners can record images at lower quality, that's the easy way to do it... set it to record the image at a lower quality (or, take photos at the highest quality setting that keeps files under 100KB or so.) Or better yet, take photos or scan things at a high quality setting, but reduce the file's quality for emailing. Pretty much all photo-editing software that can handle JPG files can do a "Save As" which will ask you specify the quality level as well. Quality 3 or 4 (out of 10) is plenty good for nearly all uses except full-color magazine publishing. My favorite program for this is called EyeBatch (it's not too expensive, available at http://www.atalasoft.com/ ) which will let you create scripts to re-size the physical dimensions AND the quality of one or any number of images at a time. This is nice for saving hi-res photos from the digicam, while creating smaller (under 75KB) versions at 800x600 that are safe for emailing and posting on webpages. (If any EyeBatch users want my scripts for this kind of stuff just lemme know...) Sorry for the rant, but there has been a lot of needlessly huge (but otherwise interesting) files posted lately. Keep the good photos coming! -Mike Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association http://www.ov-10bronco.net/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Antique Instruments
<000c01c40a12$d3c37e30$2cc5fea9@home> <40550980.B9D5FE38(at)shaw.ca> http://www.bugsandbuggies.com/vdo_main.asp http://www.stewartwarner.com/Products/prod1.html United Auto here in Coquitlam apparently carries these " Wings " gauges. I haven't gone to see yet. Clif Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Antique Instruments > > > Someone sent a link for instruments a while back, and I'll be damned if > I can find it. Could someone send any links for antique-looking > isntruments. Thanks, Dave Rowe > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: data plate
Date: Mar 15, 2004
Oscar Zuniga I think. Cheers Peter. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Navratil Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: data plate There was someone on the list who had a very nice plate made. I'm trying to find that one. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: walt <mailto:wbeevans(at)verizon.net> evans Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: data plate Got mine from Aircraft Spruce. It's made out of stainless (CRES). If you don't have a catalog,,,it's free. Just go on their site and follow the free catalog thing. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil <mailto:horzpool(at)goldengate.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: data plate Who was it that has data plates for sale? I need one. I ordered the plate from Wicks and installed it, this is the one that goes on the exterior near the tail. My check list from the FAA says aluminum is not acceptable for this plate. Also there is no space on that plate for the builders name. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Antique Instruments
Date: Mar 15, 2004
Try http://www.stewartwarner.com/Catalog/2wng.html Cheers Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave rowe Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Antique Instruments Someone sent a link for instruments a while back, and I'll be damned if I can find it. Could someone send any links for antique-looking isntruments. Thanks, Dave Rowe advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 15, 2004
Subject: Re: Bushings
In response to Dave in Missori: Although there have been many suggestions that motorcycle wheels have no ability to sustain side loads, there are also many examples of successful applications of them on Pietenpols. A notable example is Chad Wille (from Washington state I think) who uses a pair of British motorcycle wheels on his Scout. Before Chad used them, his father used the same wheels on his Piet. While it's true that a motorcycle is seldom in a position to sustain a side load, it would be difficult or at least improbable to build a wheel for production which had NO such capability. General statements aside, can anyone out there site chapter and verse on specific failures of motorcycle wheels as used on Pietenpol aircraft? I'd be very interested in the failure mode of the wheels. There are about four possibile failure points and I honestly do not see where fabricating your own 6" hubs buys much in the way of a guarantee against these failure modes. Carl Vought ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: antique instruments
Date: Mar 15, 2004
Here's a link to another instrument site besides the Bugs 'N' Buggies, which is also good: http://www.classicinstruments.net Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: dataplate
Date: Mar 15, 2004
Dick; I'm the one who is offering brass dataplates (info at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/dataplate.html ) but they don't include space for the builder's name and aren't intended to meed the FAR requirements for the permanent data plate that is to be affixed to the airframe. They are intended more for installation in the cockpit, in front of the passenger on the "glove box", or similar, to impart that old-timey feel. But if you want one, shoot me your snail mail address offline and there will be one in the mail to you tomorrow. I had 100 of these plates made up and have only sold about 1/4 of them, so if anyone wants one, info is on that webpage. I won't make a living selling them but wouldn't mind recouping my investment. I plan to take them with me to any fly-in I might attend, such as Brodhead, Urbana, Sun 'n' Fun, etc. Oh, and to the person from Kitplanes who was asking about unique cockpits, William Wynne's instrument panel was carbon fiber and would have been of some interest just for that 'look'. I have a digital image of the panel, but it's very low quality since it was a scan of a photo. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page download MSN Toolbar now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 2004
From: Leo Gates <leogates(at)allvantage.com>
Netscape/7.01
Subject: Re: data plate
<000b01c40a2c$9fd1c4a0$0600a8c0@laptop> Oscar Zuniga: You can see a picture and get ordering information at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/dataplate.html and they are $10 postpaid to anyone in the known universe. Leo Gates Richard Navratil wrote: > There was someone on the list who had a very nice plate made. I'm > trying to find that one. > Dick > > - > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 2004
From: Leo Gates <leogates(at)allvantage.com>
Netscape/7.01
Subject: Re: data plate
<000b01c40a2c$9fd1c4a0$0600a8c0@laptop> Oscar Zuniga: You can see a picture and get ordering information at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/dataplate.html and they are $10 postpaid to anyone in the known universe. Leo Gates Richard Navratil wrote: > There was someone on the list who had a very nice plate made. I'm > trying to find that one. > Dick > > - > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cory Emberson" <bootless(at)earthlink.net>
(Interiors/Exteriors)
Subject: Re: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Exteriors)
Date: Mar 15, 2004
Hi Greg, That is beautiful! How close are you to completion? Can you tell me a little more about how you designed and built that gorgeous interior? Can you tell me anything about the seats, etc. as well? Thanks so much!! (wolf-whistling :-) ) best, Cory ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 9:33 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Exteriors) Cory, How about this for an interior. It is the instrument panel for the Air Camper Dale Johnson and I are building. The front cockpit panel features a veneer that is matched to the rear panel. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Cory Emberson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 5:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Exteriors) Hello! I am writing an article for Kitplanes magazine that will feature builders who have distinctive interiors and/or exteriors. My deadline is rather short, so if you could email me as soon as possible, hopefully by Tuesday, that will give me enough time to put it together. Here are some of the criteria I'm looking for: Interiors that are (one or any combination): 1. creative 2. inexpensive 3. very comfortable 4. lightweight 5. generally cool and different 6. distinctive in some way. Exteriors that are: 1.. stunningly attractive 2.. original design 3.. historically accurate 4.. distinctive in some way Other things to keep in mind: 1. How you came to design your interior/exterior (How you got your idea) 2. The reasons why you did it as you did 3. What benefits you had in mind 4. Any unexpected benefits (and/or pitfalls) there were 5. What you learned 6. How many hours you've flown with it (if completed) 7. How much of the work did you do yourself? 8. Did you have any professional assistance? How much? 9. The equipment and tools you used 10. How much time it took to build and install 11. The cost of building it. 12. Would you do it again the same way? Why? Here are the photo requirements for Kitplanes: Photos must be 300 dpi at a size large enough to use in the magazine, which is usually at least 3 x 3 inches. If an image is 300 dpi at 1 x 1 inch, it won't be big enough to do any good. Hard copy photos are good, too. Thanks so much - I really appreciate your help! best regards, Cory Emberson Hayward, CA [KHWD] 510.599.4409 cory(at)lightspeededit.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: life insurance
Date: Mar 15, 2004
I'm running into some roadblocks and thought that others on the net might have traveled the same road and could offer some advice. I'm trying to get some term life insurance but flying the Piet seems a bit much for the various companies to deal with. To date I have had one flat-out refusal and one that said they would cover me but they would exclude ALL aviation-related pay-outs!! All this because I have a home-built airplane. What to do??? I'm definitely NOT interested in ways to circumvent the system, just experiences or names of homebuilt-friendly life insurance companies. Thanks- Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 2004
From: "Sid Miller" <millerst(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: life insurance
Have you tried the EAA - ( www.eaa.org ) members have access to several insurance companys. I've not started building yet but I do belong just to be able to get discounts. Sid ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
<022101c40acf$59248490$cbfe79a5@lightspevjz355> (Interiors/Exteriors)
Subject: Re: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Exteriors)
Date: Mar 15, 2004
Cory, The veneer was glued onto birch plywood. Seat bottoms are also walnut veneer. Seat backs are hand wickered. Control column is walnut with maple inlay turned to the dimensions of a Waco ATO stick (I always wanted Waco stick time and this is as close as I'll probably get...) Primer and throttle knob are laminated and turned. Fuselage was moved into the paint shop last Saturday. Wings have been painted to completion. Tail feathers only need the blue trim. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Cory Emberson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 2:51 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Exteriors) Hi Greg, That is beautiful! How close are you to completion? Can you tell me a little more about how you designed and built that gorgeous interior? Can you tell me anything about the seats, etc. as well? Thanks so much!! (wolf-whistling :-) ) best, Cory ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Re: Need a little help
Date: Mar 15, 2004
Corky, How about a twist instead of push pull? I turn mine 90 degrees for full on to off. Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 6:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Need a little help Pieters, When I built 41CC one of the highest hurdles and time consuming projects was the fabrication and installation of the fuel plumbing particularly the cut off valve and remote control. I am at that stage again and would like as many solutions as you would feel free to share with me. I have an 18 gal fuse tank just rear of the fire wall. I need a on-off valve easy enough to operate with a push pull wire. Thanks Corky in La ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 2004
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: life insurance
>I'm running into some roadblocks and thought that others on the net >might have traveled the same road and could offer some advice. > >I'm trying to get some term life insurance but flying the Piet seems >a bit much for the various companies to deal with. To date I have >had one flat-out refusal and one that said they would cover me but >they would exclude ALL aviation-related pay-outs!! All this because >I have a home-built airplane. What to do??? > >I'm definitely NOT interested in ways to circumvent the system, just >experiences or names of homebuilt-friendly life insurance companies. > >Thanks- > >Larry Larry, How old are you? They may just be using the Piet as an excuse for not wanting to insure you at a decent rate because of your age. I have an old medical condition that makes it very difficult for me to get additional insurance at a reasonable price, even though I had surgery to correct the condition years ago. Beyond that, I'm afraid I don't have any good advice beyond checking with EAA & seeing if they have any recommendations. Kip Gardner -- North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
<000b01c40a2c$9fd1c4a0$0600a8c0@laptop> <4055F4B5.40705(at)allvantage.com>
Subject: wings installed!!!
Date: Mar 15, 2004
TmVlZCB0byBzaGFyZSBteSBleGNpdGVtZW50Li4uICBJIGp1c3Qgc3BlbnQgdGhlIGxhc3QgNSBo b3VycyBtYWtpbmcgdGhlIGxpZnQgc3RydXRzIGFuZCBpbnN0YWxsaW5nIHRoZSB3aW5ncy4gTm90 IGEgdG91Z2ggam9iIGp1c3QgdGltZSBjb25zdW1pbmcuDQoNCkkgd2VudCB3aXRoIDEuMiBkZWdy ZWVzIG9mIGRpaGVkcmFsIGFuZCAwLjQgb2Ygd2FzaG91dCAod2hpY2ggaXMgYWJvdXQgMy84IiBh dCB0aGUgdHJhaWxpbmcgZWRnZSBhdCB3aW5nIHRpcCkgIE15IGluY2lkZW5jZSBhdCB0aGUgcm9v dCBpcyAxLjggZGVncmVlcy4NCg0KTWFuLi4uIHdhcyBpdCBldmVyIGNvb2wgdG8gaGF2ZSB0aGlz IHRoaW5nIHBhcmtlZCBpbiB0aGUgZHJpdmV3YXkgd2l0aCB0aGUgd2luZ3Mgb24hDQoNCmxvdHMg b2YgcGljcyBoZXJlDQoNCmh0dHA6Ly9pbWFnZWR2LmNvbS9haXJjYW1wZXIvbG9nL2ltYWdlLXBh Z2VzLzAzLTE1LTA0Lmh0bQ0KDQpESiBWZWdoDQpONzREVg0KTWVzYSwgQVoNCnd3dy5pbWFnZWR2 LmNvbS9haXJjYW1wZXINCg0KDQoNCi0NCg== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 15, 2004
Subject: Re: Need a little help
In a message dated 3/14/04 5:39:01 PM Central Standard Time, Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes: << Pieters, When I built 41CC one of the highest hurdles and time consuming projects was the fabrication and installation of the fuel plumbing particularly the cut off valve and remote control. I am at that stage again and would like as many solutions as you would feel free to share with me. I have an 18 gal fuse tank just rear of the fire wall. I need a on-off valve easy enough to operate with a push pull wire. Thanks Corky in La >> Corky, I'll e-mail you direct, with some digital pictures (still in the camara) of how I did mine. Might give you some ideas. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
<000b01c40a2c$9fd1c4a0$0600a8c0@laptop> <4055F4B5.40705(at)allvantage.com> <005a01c40afe$a7c34620$d2a86d44@Desktop>
Subject: Re: wings installed - weight
Date: Mar 15, 2004
Zm9yZ290IHRvIG1lbnRpb24gdGhhdCB0aGUgd2VpZ2h0IGluIHRoZSBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9uIHlv dSBzZWUgaW4gdGhlIHBpY3Mgb24gbXkgc2l0ZSBjb21lcyB1cCB0byAzNjhsYi4NCg0KVGhhdCdz IGJhc2ljYWxseSB0aGUgZW50aXJlIGFpcmZyYW1lLCB0YWlsIGJyYWNlIHdpcmVzLCBydWRkZXIg JiBlbGV2YXRvciBjb250cm9scyBpbnN0YWxsZWQsIHdoZWVscywgYnJha2VzLCBhbHVtaW51bSBs aWZ0IHN0cnV0cywgY29ydmFpciBlbmdpbmUgbW91bnQuDQoNCkknbSBhbnRpY2lwYXRpbmcgYSBi YXNpYyBlbXB0eSB3ZWlnaHQgb2YgNzI1bGIuICsgb3IgLSAyNWxiLiAgQSBiaXQgaGlnaGVyIHRo YW4gbXkgcHJldmlvdXMgZXN0aW1hdGUgYnV0IHJpZ2h0IGluIGxpbmUgd2l0aCB3aGF0IGEgR04t MSBzaG91bGQgYmUuDQoNCkRKIFZlZ2gNCk43NERWDQpNZXNhLCBBWg0Kd3d3LmltYWdlZHYuY29t L2FpcmNhbXBlcg0KDQoNCg0KLQ0K ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 2004
From: jimboyer(at)direcway.com
Subject: Re: wings installed!!!
Wow DJ!!! It looks beautiful, congratulations. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh <djv(at)imagedv.com> Date: Monday, March 15, 2004 6:30 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: wings installed!!! > Need to share my excitement... I just spent the last 5 hours > making the lift struts and installing the wings. Not a tough job > just time consuming. > > I went with 1.2 degrees of dihedral and 0.4 of washout (which is > about 3/8" at the trailing edge at wing tip) My incidence at the > root is 1.8 degrees. > > Man... was it ever cool to have this thing parked in the driveway > with the wings on! > > lots of pics here > > http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-15-04.htm > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > > - > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: wings installed!!!
Date: Mar 16, 2004
Bet you're glad you bought that project now. It's looking good and was interesting as to how you put your dihedral in. I've read of others who put 1 degree in and said that it made a definite difference on the GN-1 stability. Would you hurry up and finish? There are a bunch of us who've been following your work. We're getting impatient. Larry Ragan Jacksonville, Fl. lragan(at)hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Piet in the street
DJ-- looks fantastic ! (oh, by the way I do know that DJ has a GN-1 and not a Pietenpol) Good for you. You have to be motivated now. You've got an engine that has been rebuilt and test run to boot !! PS-- reminds me of when I had the Piet out in the yard test fitting things or running with the smoke on at full bore.......cars slow down, people look at you like you are mostly a troubled individual. It was great:) Mike C. in Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
<000b01c40a2c$9fd1c4a0$0600a8c0@laptop> <4055F4B5.40705(at)allvantage.com> <005a01c40afe$a7c34620$d2a86d44@Desktop>
Subject: Re: wings installed!!!
Date: Mar 16, 2004
----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 7:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: wings installed!!! DJ, Wonderful pictures, your plane is a "work of art". John Need to share my excitement... I just spent the last 5 hours making the lift struts and installing the wings. Not a tough job just time consuming. I went with 1.2 degrees of dihedral and 0.4 of washout (which is about 3/8" at the trailing edge at wing tip) My incidence at the root is 1.8 degrees. Man... was it ever cool to have this thing parked in the driveway with the wings on! lots of pics here http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-15-04.htm DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
<000b01c40a2c$9fd1c4a0$0600a8c0@laptop> <4055F4B5.40705(at)allvantage.com> <005a01c40afe$a7c34620$d2a86d44@Desktop>
Subject: Re: wings installed!!!
Date: Mar 16, 2004
DJ, Pics are great! It IS a big step for a builder to see his project when it first REALLY looks like a plane. Have you considered putting in a cutout above the rear pit? I'm very glad I did. It's the only way to see above you in flight. But then we have a very busy sky diving operation here and you have to be looking all ways. 22 jumpers leaving a plane at once pretty much fills up the sky. Nice progress!! walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: wings installed!!! Need to share my excitement... I just spent the last 5 hours making the lift struts and installing the wings. Not a tough job just time consuming. I went with 1.2 degrees of dihedral and 0.4 of washout (which is about 3/8" at the trailing edge at wing tip) My incidence at the root is 1.8 degrees. Man... was it ever cool to have this thing parked in the driveway with the wings on! lots of pics here http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-15-04.htm DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
<000b01c40a2c$9fd1c4a0$0600a8c0@laptop> <4055F4B5.40705(at)allvantage.com> <005a01c40afe$a7c34620$d2a86d44@Desktop> <001901c40b8e$48fe1850$2cc5fea9@home>
Subject: Re: wings installed!!!
Date: Mar 16, 2004
I have a flop that hinges at the rear spar. I was thinking of making another one and using 3/32" lexan to cover the top and bottom of it.. basically making it transparent. Would help greatly in seeing other traffic while in steep turns. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans DJ, Have you considered putting in a cutout above the rear pit? I'm very glad I did. It's the only way to see above you in flight. walt evans NX140DL = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: automotive seat belt retractor for should harness
Date: Mar 16, 2004
Why couldn't the shoulder harness strap be attached to an automobile seatbelt retractor mounted in the aft fuse? This would allow freedom of movement yet still keep you retained in an impact. I see them on ebay for various cars for like $15 DJ _ = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 16, 2004
Subject: Mr. Calley
Would Mr. Calley of Eaa technical get back to me direct. I have a few tech questions for him. Thanks Corky in beautiful La. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: data plate
Date: Mar 16, 2004
Dick, If you have a metal plate elsewhere on the aircraft, you can just handwrite with a sharpie pen the stuff near the tail. Reread the regulation on aircraft markings, Part 45. Chris Bobka A and P with IA ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 11:55 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: data plate Who was it that has data plates for sale? I need one. I ordered the plate from Wicks and installed it, this is the one that goes on the exterior near the tail. My check list from the FAA says aluminum is not acceptable for this plate. Also there is no space on that plate for the builders name. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce __" <bruce___@hotmail.com>
Subject: Beginning to Build - Questions
Date: Mar 16, 2004
Hi All, Just a couple of quick questions from a beginning builder: 1. How much T-88 is needed to build the wing ribs and tail feathers? 2. Im ordering 90 degree mahogany plywood from Wicks for the 3/16 tail feather gussets, and need to choose either 3-ply or 5-ply. The 3-ply is lighter, but I assume the 5-ply is stronger. Im thinking that the 3-ply will be plenty strong enough, and the weight savings in the tail will be of greater importance. Am I correct in my assumptions? Thanks, Bruce ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: The hardest part
Date: Mar 16, 2004
Somebody once said that the hardest part to build on a Piet, are the legs for the straight gear. I'm finding now it's got to be all of this paperwork. I hate paperwork. Re-writting the builders log and writing an Operations manual getting a little frustrating. Has anyone published a Operation s Manual for the Piet? Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Beginning to Build - Questions
Date: Mar 16, 2004
I got the quart kit of T-88 and it lasted me through the entire tail section and wing ribs. It goes a long way. As for ply... I say go with the 3 ply. 5 ply is overkill. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce __" <bruce___@hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Beginning to Build - Questions > > Hi All, > > Just a couple of quick questions from a beginning builder: > > 1. How much T-88 is needed to build the wing ribs and tail feathers? > > 2. I'm ordering 90 degree mahogany plywood from Wicks for the 3/16 tail > feather gussets, and need to choose either 3-ply or 5-ply. The 3-ply is > lighter, but I assume the 5-ply is stronger. I'm thinking that the 3-ply > will be plenty strong enough, and the weight savings in the tail will be of > greater importance. Am I correct in my assumptions? > > Thanks, > Bruce > > _________________________________________________________________ available. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 16, 2004
Subject: Re: wings installed!!!
DJ Your GN-1 looks great but I would have to say that the Z looks almost as good, like that blue color too. RH Need to share my excitement... I just spent the last 5 hours making the lift struts and installing the wings. Not a tough job just time consuming. I went with 1.2 degrees of dihedral and 0.4 of washout (which is about 3/8" at the trailing edge at wing tip) My incidence at the root is 1.8 degrees. Man... was it ever cool to have this thing parked in the driveway with the wings on! lots of pics here ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 17, 2004
Subject: Re: wings installed!!!
DJ, Ah yessss !! Another milestone reached. Really feels great, huh ? Congratulations !! Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
harness
Subject: Re: automotive seat belt retractor for should harness
Date: Mar 16, 2004
The same thing was suggested to me by one of the engineers at work. He did add that the tighter the seatbelt is the better off you are in a crash. He is a avid car buff who races on week ends and is very knowledgeable on stuff like this. He also suggested putting in a single shoulder harness in the front seat. He said that a single harness is ok to have mounted below the shoulder because in a crash you body is able to twist instead of being compressed downward. Not quite as safe as a 4 point harness but it might be a workable light weight solution. Anyone have an opinion on this? Chris T. Sacramento, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:46 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: automotive seat belt retractor for should harness Why couldn't the shoulder harness strap be attached to an automobile seatbelt retractor mounted in the aft fuse? This would allow freedom of movement yet still keep you retained in an impact. I see them on ebay for various cars for like $15 DJ _ This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
<003601c40bec$64edccf0$a1179341@Spot> harness
Subject: Re: automotive seat belt retractor for should harness
Date: Mar 17, 2004
Dick, First thing I need you and everybody else to do is to change my email address in your address book(s) to : sbobka(at)charter.net I am closing out the compuserve account. Answers to your (old) questions are inserted below. Chris > Chris, > I am a little confused (make that very confused as to the pulleys I > should be ordering for my Pietenpol. > *Elevator--I am using 1/8" cable from stick to bell crank and 3/32 > for bell crank to elevator. On the torque tube should I use larger > pulley on the "up" cable where the cable deflects about 110 degrees. The > plans show 2" pulleys. AS&S catalog says they are only good for 15 > degree cable deflection. I have one (2") MS24566-3B--is that OK for > the "down" cable where there is less deflection? or should I be using > the MS20220 pulleys? It is always best to use the largest pulley possible. Too small a pulley will cause the cable to fail. There is an AD on the Luscombe because they did not use big enough pulleys, nor did they leave enough room for bigger ones. You would be better off with 3/32" cable over the smaller pulley if that is all you can fit. 3/32" is fine for what we are doing and that area is very accessible during each preflight inspection. My Aeronca 50-C prewar Chief uses 3/32" throughout. 3/32 is about 1/2 the weight of 1/8". Galvanized is superior to Stainless as it is more flexible and is stronger. > *Aileron cables--they deflect more than 15 degrees at each pulley, > but the plans show 2" pulleys for 1/8" cable. Is there a reason for > using the 1/8"+ pulleys for the 3/32 cable? I will be using 3/32 cable > for the ailerons. What pulley specification and diameter are you using? > I checked the Archives and could not find good info. Respond on > the Pietenpol List if you feel this question and the answer should go > there. I don't quite understand the question but I would use a 2" min diameter pulley with a 3/32" cable. > Dick Hartwig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: the myths about rib stitching
I almost hate to bring this up because of the recent string of e-mails on this subject but I thought I'd try to encourage those who have this unfounded fear about the complexity and time that they perceive rib stitching will demand. When trying to learn this skill, I ordered the poly fiber book to see how to rib stitch but the step-by-step diagrams left me with a mess of string and no confidence at all. My wife and I then spent about 2 hours learning and practicing rib stitching for free under the poly fiber tent at Oshkosh a few years back. The hands on teaching was what it took to get it thru my thick head that this was not a black art or superhuman skill only achieved by the old masters of wood and fabric airplanes. Hogwash. I learn better hands-on but you may be able to learn from the book. I think that poly fiber or EAA offers a videotape too on how-to do fabric work. Anyway, yesterday I took the afternoon off to help a friend rib stitch his Fly Baby wings. Our other friend came along to help and my method of doing the seine knot (or insane as we like to call it) was different from Bill's method-- but we both ended up with the SAME knot ! We taught the owner of the Fly Baby (72 years old) how to rib lace in about 40 minutes and before the clock hit midnight we had BOTH wings completely done. Just don't get discouraged over fabric covering and rib stitching is what I'm trying to say and don't take any cheap, weak, shortcuts that might kill you or your passenger. Nuff things can kill us when flying. Dig out there for help wether it be someone who knows how to stitch and is willing to teach you or the books or video resources we have available. Don't let someone tell you either that this is the ONLY way you can rib lace. There are many ways to get to the same knot or two knots that are both acceptable. Many pilots and builders are quite full of themselves and forget to be open-minded about how to skin a cat. Tony Bingelis is fantastic in this respect in his books (tho he doesn't show how to stitch step by step) in that he gives the builder several options on "how-to" do the many tasks that face us during building. Keep on and don't let anything hold you back--including yourself !! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DumpedDogs(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 17, 2004
Subject: Re: The hardest part
Dick: I think your guy telling you that he wants all this documentation, pictures and paperwork is constipated. When I built my Avid a few years ago, the FSDO guy came out, looked at my binder. I had probably 20 photos of the construction process with a caption of a sentence or so for each picture. My dad (has and A&P license) signed each photo/caption. I also had my weight and balancce and the builder's manual laying on a table and another binder full of receipts. The FSDO guy looked at my stuff and was gone in about 12 minutes. I flew the airplane later that day. Maybe you need to find a "kinder and gentler" FSDO rep. Good luck. S.B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: bunch of crap
<002d01c40bea$89714090$a1179341@Spot> Dick-- Why did the head of our MIDO office just want to see the invoices for my raw material purchases and photos of my progress during building. Your guy is going wayyyyy overboard and I would call him on it bigtime. Trouble with these inspectors is that they take way too many liberties about what is required from inspector to inspector. There must be some guidelines that they have to follow. I would get another inspector or DAR. How the heck to you know what your performance figures are going to be until you FLY the blasted airplane. And he wants a PARTS list ???? Where the heck does it require you to have this ??? This guy is wacko. I'll gladly forward my FAA guy's email to you off-line so those two can talk. I don't mean to sound irritated at you by any means at all--- I just think that this guy needs to lighten up and make sure your plane is AIRWORTHY and that you have built the majority of it yourself. The so-called not in the regs 51% rule that everyone calls the 51% rule. That is a majority last time I took statistics. Anyway---I think this guy is way out of line. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 17, 2004
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 03/16/04
In a message dated 3/16/04 11:57:11 PM, pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: << From: "Bruce __" <bruce___@hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Beginning to Build - Questions >> I recently finished up all of my ribs, and used one pint of T-88 for all. But I laminated my four spars, using seven layers, and used three pint kits for this. I buy the T-88 a pint at a time, so that it will be fresh. I'm going to try to weigh my wing components today, but so far, I don't think that there is any real difference in total weight between my Vertical Grain Kiln-dried Douglas Fir and AS&S Spruce. When we compared Fuse weights, mine was 71 lbs., vs. 70 for the Spruce approach. And you can still get very good Douglas Fir at your local lumber yard. I did choose Basswood plywood for all my ply things, it being lighter and glues better. Carl L , Compton Airport. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Stapelberg" <norshel(at)mweb.co.za>
Subject: Covering of the fuselage
Date: Mar 17, 2004
Just thought I'd ask while I am waiting for my material to arrive, what is the covering procedure/sequence of the fuselage, got the fuselage back and should be ready in the new week for covering, just a couple of small things to do. Cheers Norman South Africa ZS-VJA (rebuilding) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 2004
From: PAT HOEVELMANN <hoevelmann(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Landing gear
I am about to purchase my landing gear from St.Croix aircraft, I found them in the Pietenpol directory. I wanted to know if anyone has purchased anything from them. I also wanted to know what size axels to put on it and what size wheels I should use. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, J.J. Hoevelmann ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Aerocarb on Ebay
Date: Mar 17, 2004
didn't get much interest on selling my Aerocarb so I put it up on ebay... if anyone is interested here's the link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2467879692 DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Aerocarb for sale
Date: Mar 17, 2004
SSd2ZSBnb3QgYW4gQWVyb2NhcmIgZm9yIHNhbGUgb24gRWJheSByaWdodCBub3cuICBJdCdzIHRo ZSAzMm1tIHZlcnNpb24uICBDYW4gYmUgdXNlZCBvbiBhbnkgNjUtMTE1aHAgZW5naW5lLiAgaWYg YW55b25lIGlzIGludGVyZXN0ZWQgaGVyZSdzIHRoZSBsaW5rDQoNCmh0dHA6Ly9jZ2kuZWJheS5j b20vZWJheW1vdG9ycy93cy9lQmF5SVNBUEkuZGxsP1ZpZXdJdGVtJml0ZW09MjQ2Nzg3OTY5Mg0K DQoNCkRKIFZlZ2gNCk43NERWDQpNZXNhLCBBWg0Kd3d3LmltYWdlZHYuY29tL2FpcmNhbXBlcg0K DQpf ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Paulsen" <dpaul(at)fidnet.com>
Subject: Steel Gage
Date: Mar 18, 2004
Dear List, My Flying and Glider Manuel is a little blurred. It appears that the steel that is used to reinforce the areas around the wood landing gear on page 17 is 16 gage steel. Even with a magnifying glass it is hard to be sure. Can someone confirm that it is 16 gage. Thanks. Dave in Missouri ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 18, 2004
Subject: Re: Landing gear
I believe that St. Croix Aircraft is or was connected with Chad C. Wille. He's an old hand at Pietenpols. (I mentioned him the other day in a posting.) Chad's Scout is featured on p.30 of Sport Aviation Feb 1998. I have one of their propellers and I'm glad I do, but can't speak for it from experience because I've never spun it....Carl Vought, Huntsville, AL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 18, 2004
Subject: Re: the myths about rib stitching
I did my rib stitching by myself. To reduce the number of trips from one side of the wing to the other, I made 15 straight needles each about 8" long. After marking and punching stitch locations, I ran all needles through the wing, along one rib, went to the bottom side of the wing and ran them all back through the wing. Then I went back to the top side and tied starting knots at each location (the Polyfiber manual speaks approvingly of using all starter knots). Then I proceeded to the next rib and did the same thing....Carl Vought ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: Steel Gage
Date: Mar 18, 2004
Dave, The outside vee fitting in the lower right corner of the of figure 6A is pretty clear, 16 gage steel. The other inside vee, outside and inside landing gear fittings are not very readable, but do look like 16 gage, most likely, probably ;<) Maybe someone who actually made this type of gear will write in and say what thickness 4130 they used. Skip My Flying and Glider Manuel is a little blurred. It appears that the steel that is used to reinforce the areas around the wood landing gear on page 17 is 16 gage steel. Even with a magnifying glass it is hard to be sure. Can someone confirm that it is 16 gage. Thanks. Dave in Missouri Message Dave, The outside vee fitting in the lower right corner of the of figure 6A is pretty clear, 16 gage steel. The other inside vee, outside and inside landing gear fittings are not very readable, but do look like 16 gage, most likely, probably ;) Maybe someone who actually made this type of gear will write in and say what thickness 4130 they used. Skip My Flying and Glider Manuel is a little blurred. It appears that the steel that is used to reinforce the areas around the wood landing gear on page 17 is 16 gage steel. Even with a magnifying glass it is hard to be sure. Can someone confirm that it is 16 gage. Thanks. Dave in Missouri ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: The myths about rib stitching
Date: Mar 18, 2004
From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com>
As usual, Michael is right on with his forge ahead advice. My first job rib-stitching still makes me chuckle inside. I had the book (Stitts). I had the video. I had 41.13. I read and watched carefully. Both paper resources just gave me a headache with the "pull line A through loop B while going under piece C" stuff. I have to mention that my workshop/play area is about 200 feet from my house. I'd watch the video, pause certain scenes, rewind and repeat for details and when I was totally convinced that I understood it I'd confidently go to the shop and discover that in 200 feet I had totally forgotten what I had just seen. I'd get about three knots down the rib and "poof", "How'd that go?" Back to the house and pause, rewind and repeat until I was absolutely, positively totally convinced I understood it and off I'd go that 200 feet just to find I was still confused. This had to happen three or four times before I finally grabbed a scrape front seat frame and covered it with fabric, shrunk it and sat down in front of the TV and slowly followed the video step by step. For me, that finally did it and the rib-stitching went well after that. It really is easy and even enjoyable - once you work through that dang nab convoluted process. Of course then there's the brackets or braces that end up in the way. The wax feeling you get on your hands and of course, how darned sharp that thread can end up being after doing a bunch of ribs. But that's another smile I get thinking about the joys of homebuilding. Keep at it. We all need things to smile and chuckle about! Bill Sayre ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Beginning to Build - Questions
Date: Mar 18, 2004
ZGVsIC4uLi4gc2hvdWxkbid0IHlvdSBoYXZlIHNlbnQgdGhhdCBlbWFpbCBkaXJlY3RseSB0byB0 aGUgb2ZmZW5kZXI/ICB5b3UganVzdCAidG9vayB1cCBzcGFjZSINCg0KOi0pDQoNCkRKIFZlZ2gN Ck43NERWDQpNZXNhLCBBWg0Kd3d3LmltYWdlZHYuY29tL2FpcmNhbXBlcg0KDQoNCg0KLQ0KDQog IC0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0gDQogIEZyb206IGRlbCBtYWdzYW0gDQogIFRv OiBwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIA0KICBTZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgTWFyY2gg MTgsIDIwMDQgNjoyNyBBTQ0KICBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IEJlZ2lubmlu ZyB0byBCdWlsZCAtIFF1ZXN0aW9ucw0KDQoNCiAgSSdtIHNlZWluZyBhIGxvdCBvZiBlbWFpbHMg bGlrZSB0aGlzLCBpZiB5b3UgcmVhZCB0aGUgcnVsZXMgeW91IHdpbGwgZmluZCB0aGF0IGlmIHlv dSB3YW50IHRvIHRoYW5rIHNvbWVvbmUsIHNheSAid2F5IGNvb2wiLCBvciBhbnl0aGluZyB0aGF0 IHRha2VzIHVwIHNwYWNlLCBzZW5kIGl0IHRvIHRoZSByZWNpcGlhbnQgcGVyc29uYWxseSwgaW5z dGVhZCBvZiB0byB0aGUgZ3JvdXAuDQogIGRvIG5vdCBhcmNoaXZlDQoNCg0KICBCcnVjZSBfXyA8 YnJ1Y2VfX19AaG90bWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KICBZYWhvbyEgTWFpbCAtIE1vcmUgcmVsaWFi bGUsIG1vcmUgc3RvcmFnZSwgbGVzcyBzcGFt ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: New Piet
Date: Mar 18, 2004
Pieters- Just got word that John Ficklen's Piet will be inspected on Saturday!! It will be based at the Apalachicola, FL airport. His next goal is to have the time flown off in time to take it to Sun-N-Fun. After that, he's committed to getting it to B'head for the 75th anniversary reunion. Speaking of the anniversary............... looks like there is NOTHING planned at OSH for the observance of this venerable old design. What to do?? Larry ps. Got an e-mail last night from Mike Madrid out in Lompoc, CA that he just bought an airplane.........it's a Grega, though. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 18, 2004
Subject: Re: The hardest part
I hope so. Sure he isn't refering to an Advisory for an aircraft manufacturer? Maybe I'm doing too much here, but in my conversations with Dave Smith at MSP MIDO , who is supervising my inspection, they are asking for more. He says the log is to include pictures of sub assemblies not visable, a written description of work preformed, including outside help received, detail of any modifications from plan and a cronological timeline of construction. I just passed 20 pages on this part. The operation manual is to include a parts list, weight balance data, anticipated operation limits and preformance data. I was told the Cessna 150 manual might be a good base for design. The Advisory Circular for Homebuilts states that all aircraft must have an Operations Manual for flight. Am I wrong on this point? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 18, 2004
Subject: Re: Aerocarb on Ebay
DJ What carb did you end up using on your Corvair? RH didn't get much interest on selling my Aerocarb so I put it up on ebay... if anyone is interested here's the link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2467879692 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: the myths about rib stitching
Date: Mar 18, 2004
Interesting idea but why didn't you do several ribs at the same time? One starter knot and then work up these ribs. With 15 needles you could do 15 ribs minimizing the switching sides as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:40 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the myths about rib stitching I did my rib stitching by myself. To reduce the number of trips from one side of the wing to the other, I made 15 straight needles each about 8" long. After marking and punching stitch locations, I ran all needles through the wing, along one rib, went to the bottom side of the wing and ran them all back through the wing. Then I went back to the top side and tied starting knots at each location (the Polyfiber manual speaks approvingly of using all starter knots). Then I proceeded to the next rib and did the same thing....Carl Vought ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: threads on wing stuts
Date: Mar 18, 2004
Max, At the bottom end of the strut, what is the depth of the threads and how long is the threaded portion of the clevis? Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com To: sbobka(at)charter.net Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:25 AM Subject: Re: threads Chris: I have the struts off of a cub...that we are going to cut down from the top. Max ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 18, 2004
Subject: Re: threads on wing stuts
I haven't taken one of them apart yet. They came off of a flying cub. Piper specs. Max ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Aerocarb on Ebay
Date: Mar 18, 2004
I think I'm gonna get an Ellison TBI. It's expensive but it's a damn good unit. I may have to run a Marvel or Stromberg in the interim until I can come up with the $$$ for the Ellison. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: At7000ft(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerocarb on Ebay DJ What carb did you end up using on your Corvair? RH didn't get much interest on selling my Aerocarb so I put it up on ebay... if anyone is interested here's the link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item2467879692 = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: threaded end of cub struts
Date: Mar 18, 2004
Max, Now I remember... I think there should be a witness hole up along the threaded part of the strut bottom about 3/4" or an inch. When you have the clevis in the strut, a piece of wire stuck in the hole should hit the clevis indicating that it is in that far or more. Does this make sense? It may be clogged with paint, etc.. Spherical joints also use this witness hole method of ensuring adequate thread engagement. chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com To: sbobka(at)charter.net Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: RE Max Davis Chris: How's it going? I have been extremely busy at work as of late and have not had the time to pester the Rochester Gauge Co. I thought I would give them a little time, anyway, and regroup before the next attack. I have some photo's and even a 20 second clip if you are interested and have DSL. I can't remember if I sent it out or not. I don't think I did because of all the whining about large files on the list. Let me know back...I would be happy to send pictures of the prototype with assorted fittings to date. We are going to install them in the next few days. As soon as we get the plumbing installed we are going to put the wings on. Does the 2 1/2 thread rule apply the lift struts? If so, how in the world can I cut those things to those tolerances. I am almost positive a cub has more than 3 treads showing. Have a good one, Max Davis Arlington, TX. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: threaded end of cub struts
Date: Mar 18, 2004
the Piper fork has a 7/16-20 thread. The way I did it was I threaded the fork into the strut 20 turns... which gave me 1" of contact I can go up to 4 turns out and still be OK. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka Subject: Pietenpol-List: threaded end of cub struts Max, Now I remember... I think there should be a witness hole up along the threaded part of the strut bottom about 3/4" or an inch. When you have the clevis in the strut, a piece of wire stuck in the hole should hit the clevis indicating that it is in that far or more. Does this make sense? It may be clogged with paint, etc.. Spherical joints also use this witness hole method of ensuring adequate thread engagement. chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com To: sbobka(at)charter.net Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: RE Max Davis Chris: How's it going? I have been extremely busy at work as of late and have not had the time to pester the Rochester Gauge Co. I thought I would give them a little time, anyway, and regroup before the next attack. I have some photo's and even a 20 second clip if you are interested and have DSL. I can't remember if I sent it out or not. I don't think I did because of all the whining about large files on the list. Let me know back...I would be happy to send pictures of the prototype with assorted fittings to date. We are going to install them in the next few days. As soon as we get the plumbing installed we are going to put the wings on. Does the 2 1/2 thread rule apply the lift struts? If so, how in the world can I cut those things to those tolerances. I am almost positive a cub has more than 3 treads showing. Have a good one, Max Davis Arlington, TX. = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
<008b01c40d12$fb3d7da0$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com>
Subject: Re: threaded end of cub struts
Date: Mar 18, 2004
DJ That is good info. You obviously use 1" less 4/20 of an inch or about 3/4" engagement as a minimum. What is the basis of this? chris ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: threaded end of cub struts the Piper fork has a 7/16-20 thread. The way I did it was I threaded the fork into the strut 20 turns... which gave me 1" of contact I can go up to 4 turns out and still be OK. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka To: Andimaxd(at)aol.com ; pietenpol Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: threaded end of cub struts Max, Now I remember... I think there should be a witness hole up along the threaded part of the strut bottom about 3/4" or an inch. When you have the clevis in the strut, a piece of wire stuck in the hole should hit the clevis indicating that it is in that far or more. Does this make sense? It may be clogged with paint, etc.. Spherical joints also use this witness hole method of ensuring adequate thread engagement. chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com To: sbobka(at)charter.net Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: RE Max Davis Chris: How's it going? I have been extremely busy at work as of late and have not had the time to pester the Rochester Gauge Co. I thought I would give them a little time, anyway, and regroup before the next attack. I have some photo's and even a 20 second clip if you are interested and have DSL. I can't remember if I sent it out or not. I don't think I did because of all the whining about large files on the list. Let me know back...I would be happy to send pictures of the prototype with assorted fittings to date. We are going to install them in the next few days. As soon as we get the plumbing installed we are going to put the wings on. Does the 2 1/2 thread rule apply the lift struts? If so, how in the world can I cut those things to those tolerances. I am almost positive a cub has more than 3 treads showing. Have a good one, Max Davis Arlington, TX. This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
<008b01c40d12$fb3d7da0$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com> <000b01c40d16$34281460$0101a8c0@domain>
Subject: Re: threaded end of cub struts
Date: Mar 18, 2004
well... first I wanted to find the thread stress area if the fork was threaded 1/2" (10 turns) which on a 7/16-20 is .119" =B2/revolution. I foundthe formula for that here: http://www.engineersedge.com/calculators/thrd_strss_100a_pop.htm so..... .119 x 10 turns 1.19" =B2 I figured 5G's of the gross weight hanging on just one strut fork with the strut at 60=B0 would be 12,000 lb so 12,000/1.19 approx 10kpsi. I'm guessing the lift strut fork has an ultimate shear failure of at least 90kpsi. that leaves me with a factor of safety of 9! and thats if the entire plane is hanging from just one fork which does not happen happens. So then I just figured 3/4" looks about right. :-) DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: threaded end of cub struts DJ That is good info. You obviously use 1" less 4/20 of an inch or about 3/4" engagement as a minimum. What is the basis of this? chris ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: threaded end of cub struts the Piper fork has a 7/16-20 thread. The way I did it was I threaded the fork into the strut 20 turns... which gave me 1" of contact I can go up to 4 turns out and still be OK. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka To: Andimaxd(at)aol.com ; pietenpol Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: threaded end of cub struts Max, Now I remember... I think there should be a witness hole up along the threaded part of the strut bottom about 3/4" or an inch. When you have the clevis in the strut, a piece of wire stuck in the hole should hit the clevis indicating that it is in that far or more. Does this make sense? It may be clogged with paint, etc.. Spherical joints also use this witness hole method of ensuring adequate thread engagement. chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com To: sbobka(at)charter.net Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: RE Max Davis Chris: How's it going? I have been extremely busy at work as of late and have not had the time to pester the Rochester Gauge Co. I thought I would give them a little time, anyway, and regroup before the next attack. I have some photo's and even a 20 second clip if you are interested and have DSL. I can't remember if I sent it out or not. I don't think I did because of all the whining about large files on the list. Let me know back...I would be happy to send pictures of the prototype with assorted fittings to date. We are going to install them in the next few days. As soon as we get the plumbing installed we are going to put the wings on. Does the 2 1/2 thread rule apply the lift struts? If so, how in the world can I cut those things to those tolerances. I am almost positive a cub has more than 3 treads showing. Have a good one, Max Davis Arlington, TX. This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Knot2Shabby5TA6(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 18, 2004
Subject: Re: Aerocarb on Ebay
DJ: I did some research on this and if I can find my info, it isn't a good idea on a gravity fed system. This info came to me from EAA HQ about 4 months ago. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 18, 2004
Subject: Re: the myths about rib stitching
That's the way I started to do it....one needle for each rib..But I decided to do one rib at a time because the work is concentrated in one place, requiring less movement from one rib to the next. Secondly, I thread 30" of waxed cord onto each needle at a time. I wind all 15 pieces of cord around a fixture (a board with two nails 15" apart) at one time then thread all needles at one sitting....It all seemed simpler to me to deal with the short pieces of cord than the long ones. How many feet of cord are required to do one rib on a piet with the conventional method? What is meant by stitch "sides"? Besides, with the starting knot, a straight needle is required. That makes it easier to get consistency between needles and to find the hole on the opposite side of the wing. I found that I was tying enough knots per hour to put some serious wear on my fingers, so I took a RH glove and cut off the thumb and index finger. That protected the fingers getting the most abuse and provided the dexterity required for the thumb and index finger. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Steel Gage
Date: Mar 18, 2004
Message16 ga. or .063 is correct. Dale and I weighed our landing gear. Included were the gear legs, axle, spreader bars, bracing cables, wheels and tires. Total weight - 60 lbs Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Gadd, Skip To: 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com' Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:25 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steel Gage Dave, The outside vee fitting in the lower right corner of the of figure 6A is pretty clear, 16 gage steel. The other inside vee, outside and inside landing gear fittings are not very readable, but do look like 16 gage, most likely, probably ;<) Maybe someone who actually made this type of gear will write in and say what thickness 4130 they used. Skip My Flying and Glider Manuel is a little blurred. It appears that the steel that is used to reinforce the areas around the wood landing gear on page 17 is 16 gage steel. Even with a magnifying glass it is hard to be sure. Can someone confirm that it is 16 gage. Thanks. Dave in Missouri ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: the myths about rib stitching
Date: Mar 18, 2004
As per the Poly Fiber manual, if, after you snap chalk lines, you "pre-poke" the stitch holes, by sliding the wing toward you , you can stitch half(front to back) the wing at the aeleron area. From the rear and then from the front. The root of the wing can be done with just a little stretching to get to the center. Just put the wing on horses instead of a table, so when you put the needle down thru you can climb under and pull it down and send it back up. The note in the Poly fiber manual about the light under the wing pointing up is the answer. Makes the wing invisable, and you can see everything. including all control cables and drag/anti-drag wires Funny how the strangest things put up a mental block of jobs to do on building. : ) (including me) walt evans NX140DL > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 2004
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Aerocarb on Ebay
you did some research on what? and it isn't a good idea on what gravity feed system? Del Knot2Shabby5TA6(at)aol.com wrote: DJ: I did some research on this and if I can find my info, it isn't a good idea on a gravity fed system. This info came to me from EAA HQ about 4 months ago. Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 2004
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Aerocarb on Ebay
DJ I see in the ebay pic that you had the carb on top of the engine, but I think I remember that you put it underneath although the 2nd pic doesn't look like a vair setup. did you run it gravity feed on the bottom and it still didn't want to run right? I've been thinking about a pressure pump that will work with the aerocarb. I also noticed that when you had it mounted on top, it is oriented the wrong direction to the intake tubes to run properly. Its just that mine works so well that I hate to think that you have to waste your money on an ellison. I mean, we are innovative people here, who can make a simple vair engine work, why can't we figure out a little ol' aerocarb. that so many are flying with already, with good success. the aerocarb may have its thing, but it atomizes the fuel well, it only has a couple of moving parts, and its ice resistant, unlike a complex expensive ellison. Del DJ Vegh wrote: I think I'm gonna get an Ellison TBI. It's expensive but it's a damn good unit. I may have to run a Marvel or Stromberg in the interim until I can come up with the $$$ for the Ellison. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: At7000ft(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerocarb on Ebay DJ What carb did you end up using on your Corvair? RH didn't get much interest on selling my Aerocarb so I put it up on ebay... if anyone is interested here's the link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2467879692 This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Aerocarb on Ebay
Date: Mar 18, 2004
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From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 18, 2004
Subject: Re: the myths about rib stitching
In a message dated 3/18/04 10:18:48 AM Central Standard Time, cgalley(at)qcbc.org writes: << Interesting idea but why didn't you do several ribs at the same time? One starter knot and then work up these ribs. With 15 needles you could do 15 ribs minimizing the switching sides as well. >> That's the way I did it. I had my 29' wing mounted on vertical jigs in the living room, dining room and out the back door to the enclosed back porch. It was pretty easy to access the top and the bottom of the wing. I marked a 5' piece of capstrip with the stitch location, and just went down the wing, and pencil marked the stitch locations. I think I spliced the chord once for each rib. A bright light allows you to see inside the wing. Some stitches had to be moved a little, to avoid some things inside the wing. I think they were 2 1/2" apart in the prop blast + one rib, and the rest of the wing was 3 1/2" apart. I think I had like 500 stitches total wing. The wing was a main topic of conservation when I had a visitor. The two most popular questions were "Are you married?", and "How are you going to get this thing out of the house?" Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2004
From: Richard Carden <flywrite(at)erols.com>
Subject: Wire/turnbuckles
The wing plans call for the use of 13 gauge hard wire, and 325 SF turnbuckles. Does anyone have a source of supply, or a better description of these two items? Dick Carden ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: paperwork
Date: Mar 19, 2004
After my post from a few days ago I soke with the FAA guy again and Joe Norris from EAA who will be my DAR. Turns out the FAA supervisor was not clear when talking to me that this was a plans built experimental and not a kit that was purchased or such. Joe says I will have to have limitations displayed arcs, placards and such but technicaly there is no manual required. HOWEVER, that does fall under good practices and the FAA Advisiorl Circular calls for one to be developed with anticipated preformance data. Translation, it would score some points on my side to have something in hand. I am currently writting an Operations Manual for the Piet. It will be a MS Word Doc and I will post it when complete. You all can make changes to fit diffrent fuse lenghts and engines a needed. I was up late last night on it and will have it in a couple of days. Warning in advance, I simply estimated a couple of figures and corrections willl be needed. One piece of info I could use help with is, with a Piet weighing 682 lb and an A-65 engine, what is the WING LOADING AND POWER LOADING? Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: paperwork
Date: Mar 19, 2004
Power loading is lbs/hp but it is based on gross weight. Wing loading is lbs/wing area but it is based on gross weight. We need to know your gross weight. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 9:38 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: paperwork After my post from a few days ago I soke with the FAA guy again and Joe Norris from EAA who will be my DAR. Turns out the FAA supervisor was not clear when talking to me that this was a plans built experimental and not a kit that was purchased or such. Joe says I will have to have limitations displayed arcs, placards and such but technicaly there is no manual required. HOWEVER, that does fall under good practices and the FAA Advisiorl Circular calls for one to be developed with anticipated preformance data. Translation, it would score some points on my side to have something in hand. I am currently writting an Operations Manual for the Piet. It will be a MS Word Doc and I will post it when complete. You all can make changes to fit diffrent fuse lenghts and engines a needed. I was up late last night on it and will have it in a couple of days. Warning in advance, I simply estimated a couple of figures and corrections willl be needed. One piece of info I could use help with is, with a Piet weighing 682 lb and an A-65 engine, what is the WING LOADING AND POWER LOADING? Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: paperwork
Date: Mar 19, 2004
wing loading is going to be 4.7lb/ft sq. EMPTY. If a 180lb pilot is in it it will be 5.9lb/ft sq. Power loading is 10.4 lb/hp EMPTY and 13.2lb/hp with a 180lb Pilot. All of these figures do not include fuel DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil Subject: Pietenpol-List: paperwork After my post from a few days ago I soke with the FAA guy again and Joe Norris from EAA who will be my DAR. Turns out the FAA supervisor was not clear when talking to me that this was a plans built experimental and not a kit that was purchased or such. Joe says I will have to have limitations displayed arcs, placards and such but technicaly there is no manual required. HOWEVER, that does fall under good practices and the FAA Advisiorl Circular calls for one to be developed with anticipated preformance data. Translation, it would score some points on my side to have something in hand. I am currently writting an Operations Manual for the Piet. It will be a MS Word Doc and I will post it when complete. You all can make changes to fit diffrent fuse lenghts and engines a needed. I was up late last night on it and will have it in a couple of days. Warning in advance, I simply estimated a couple of figures and corrections willl be needed. One piece of info I could use help with is, with a Piet weighing 682 lb and an A-65 engine, what is the WING LOADING AND POWER LOADING? Dick N. = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2004
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: paperwork
Dick, To get those figures the gross weight of the plane is needed, you have to estimate the weight of a pilot and passenger (I dont know if there is a "Std" estimated weight in USA) also the weight of the gasoline in full tank(s) and don't forget the engine oil, if not already in the engine when you got your empty weight. Saludos Gary Gower --- Richard Navratil wrote: > After my post from a few days ago I soke with the FAA guy again and > Joe Norris from EAA who will be my DAR. Turns out the FAA supervisor > was not clear when talking to me that this was a plans built > experimental and not a kit that was purchased or such. Joe says I > will have to have limitations displayed > arcs, placards and such but technicaly there is no manual required. > HOWEVER, that does fall under good practices and the FAA Advisiorl > Circular calls for one to be developed with anticipated preformance > data. Translation, it would score some points on my side to have > something in hand. > > I am currently writting an Operations Manual for the Piet. It will > be a MS Word Doc and I will post it when complete. You all can make > changes to fit diffrent fuse lenghts and engines a needed. I was up > late last night on it and will have it in a couple of days. Warning > in advance, I simply estimated a couple of figures and corrections > willl be needed. > > One piece of info I could use help with is, with a Piet weighing > 682 lb and an A-65 engine, what is the WING LOADING AND POWER > LOADING? > Dick N. __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Wire/turnbuckles
Date: Mar 19, 2004
I used 3/32" SS 7x10 wire with the stress threads, available at Boat U.S. or West Marine. Turnbuckles from ASS or Wicks, I dont remember which ones. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Carden" <flywrite(at)erols.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire/turnbuckles > > The wing plans call for the use of 13 gauge hard wire, and 325 SF > turnbuckles. > > Does anyone have a source of supply, or a better description of these > two items? > > Dick Carden > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 19, 2004
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 03/18/04
In a message dated 3/18/04 11:57:11 PM, pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: << Bruce __ <bruce___@hotmail.com> wrote: >> Don't mind the ranting, Bruce, they don't really understand what they are doing. Please feel free to contact me any time, either on the list or off. I did weigh my wing parts, the spars were almost exactly 10 pounds each, made up of 7 layers of vertical grain Douglas Fir. The ribs for a side (14), were almost exactly 5 pounds for the lot. This weight total suggests to me that there wouldn't be much difference in the flying weight no matter which woods you use. I chose DF because there is a lot of very good stuff available, and I did not like what I looked at, at AS&S. If the two wings weigh 50 pounds (wood structure), and the Center Section weighs about 10, this means that there is about 90 pounds available for hardware, fabric and paint, to keep to the 150 pounds Bernie sugggested. Carl L @ Compton Airport ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 4130 availability
Date: Mar 19, 2004
There was a question here about availability of 4130 sheet. Be aware that steel prices are completely out of control at the moment, in all areas of the market. Not to go out and scare anyone, but if you're in the process of putting together a list of materials for your project and you're anywhere close to getting it finished, I'd suggest ordering your materials (steel stock) right now. Commercial vendors are only honoring price quotes on steel for max of 5 days, so it's a very volatile market right now. Steel has increased in price about 40% over the last 90 days. Or you could avoid the panic, sit back and think about it, and let this "crisis" pass like they all seem to! That would be the Pietenpol "low and slow" style, eh? Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: 4130 availability
Or go Aluminum, it's still affordable, and the stress conversion charts readily aval. Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > There was a question here about availability of 4130 sheet. Be aware that > steel prices are completely out of control at the moment, in all areas of > the market. Not to go out and scare anyone, but if you're in the process of > putting together a list of materials for your project and you're anywhere > close to getting it finished, I'd suggest ordering your materials (steel > stock) right now. Commercial vendors are only honoring price quotes on > steel for max of 5 days, so it's a very volatile market right now. Steel > has increased in price about 40% over the last 90 days. > > Or you could avoid the panic, sit back and think about it, and let this > "crisis" pass like they all seem to! That would be the Pietenpol "low and > slow" style, eh? > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 19, 2004
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 03/18/04
In a message dated 3/19/04 11:39:10 AM Central Standard Time, ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com writes: << If the two wings weigh 50 pounds (wood structure), and the Center Section weighs about 10, this means that there is about 90 pounds available for hardware, fabric and paint, to keep to the 150 pounds Bernie sugggested. >> I thought B.H.P. said the wing should weigh about 90 lbs. This would be the one piece wing. Chuck Gantzer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Wire/turnbuckles
Date: Mar 20, 2004
Dick, The 325 SF is an obsolete designation. Perhaps you could find them in an old (1920's era) Nicholas-Beazley catalog but they are not available today. Hard wire is still available, 13 ga. would be .090. Finding the "correct" wire can be a challenge. Some call it piano wire, others call it music wire. These are generally too stiff to use. Chris Bobka has done a lot of research on wire; he would be a good resource to ask. The common practice today is to use 1/8" cable and -22 turnbuckles. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Carden" <flywrite(at)erols.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire/turnbuckles > > The wing plans call for the use of 13 gauge hard wire, and 325 SF > turnbuckles. > > Does anyone have a source of supply, or a better description of these > two items? > > Dick Carden > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: inexpensive goggles
Date: Mar 20, 2004
If anyone is interested, here's a site for inexpensive "over the glasses" goggles. http://www.kroop.com/ walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 21, 2004
Subject: Re: Wire/turnbuckles
Dick..I got my solid wire from McMaster-Carr. They have a catalog on the web and their Atlanta phone number is 404/364-7000. They also have a printed catalog which is over 2" thick which they won't mail to a residence...only companies. The wire I got looks just right..low gloss, uniform and appears to have the right softness/hardness. Music wire is way too hard for this purpose. The product description is as follows: Type302/304 stainless steel soft temper wire .081" dia., 1-lb coil, (52') $8.14...Carl Vought...Huntsville, AL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 21, 2004
Subject: Re: Wire/turnbuckles
Heres a link to some pictures of our tail brace wires. These are the same as suggested for the wing brace wires by Carl Vought, except we chose 403 stainless wire. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=143 Terry B ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Wire/turnbuckles
Date: Mar 21, 2004
VGVycnksDQoNCnlvdXIgZGVzY3JpcHRpb24gc2F5cyB5b3UgdXNlZCBhIHBpbiBleWUgdHVybmJ1 Y2tsZSBlbmQuICBJcyB0aGF0IGEgaXMgdHlwbz8gIElmIG5vdCB5b3UgbWF5IHdpc2ggdG8gcmVj b25zaWRlciBjaGFuZ2luZyBmcm9tIGEgcGluIGV5ZSB0byBjYWJsZSBleWUuICBBIHBpbiBleWUg ZG9lc24ndCBoYXZlIGEgc29vdGhlZCByYWRpdXMgbGlrZSBhIGNhYmxlIGV5ZSBhbmQgd2lsbCAi Y3V0IiBpbnRvIHRoZSB3aXJlLiAgUGluIGV5ZXMgYXJlIHJlc2VydmVkIGZvciBjbGV2aXMgcGlu cyBhbmQgYm9sdHMgb25seS4uLi4gbm8gd2lyZXMvY2FibGVzLg0KDQoNCkRKIFZlZ2gNCk43NERW DQpNZXNhLCBBWg0Kd3d3LmltYWdlZHYuY29tL2FpcmNhbXBlcg0KDQoNCg0KLQ0KDQogIC0tLS0t IE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0gDQogIEZyb206IEJBUk5TVE1SQGFvbC5jb20gDQogIFRv OiBwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIA0KICBTZW50OiBTdW5kYXksIE1hcmNoIDIx LCAyMDA0IDg6MTkgQU0NCiAgU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBXaXJlL3R1cm5i dWNrbGVzDQoNCg0KICBIZXJlcyBhIGxpbmsgdG8gc29tZSBwaWN0dXJlcyBvZiBvdXIgdGFpbCBi cmFjZSB3aXJlcy4gIFRoZXNlIGFyZSB0aGUgc2FtZSBhcyBzdWdnZXN0ZWQgZm9yIHRoZSB3aW5n IGJyYWNlIHdpcmVzIGJ5IENhcmwgVm91Z2h0LCBleGNlcHQgd2UgY2hvc2UgNDAzIHN0YWlubGVz cyB3aXJlLiAgDQoNCiAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5teWtpdHBsYW5lLmNvbS9QbGFuZXMvcGhvdG9HYWxs ZXJ5TGlzdDIuY2ZtP0FsYnVtSUQ9MTQzDQoNCiAgVGVycnkgQiA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 21, 2004
Subject: Re: Wire/turnbuckles
Thats a good point DJ. I was not aware of there being a cable-eye type. I was wondering why these didn't have the smooth radius like they needed to have. There was a slight radius, maybe .025. So before we made up the ends, I worked each one over a bit with a small round file to break the radius a little more. Next time, I will order the AN-170. Terry B ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Wire/turnbuckles
Date: Mar 21, 2004
YXMgbG9uZyBhcyB5b3UgY3JlYXRlZCBhIHNtb290aCByYWRpdXMgb24gdGhlbSBJIHN1c3BlY3Qg eW91J2xsIGJlIGZpbmUuICBUaGUgcGljcyBsb29rZWQgbGlrZSBpdCB3YXMgYSBjYWJsZSBleWUg c2luY2UgaXQgYXBwZWFyZWQgdG8gaGF2ZSBhIHJhZGl1cy4uLi4gdGhhdHMgd2h5IEkgd2FzIHdv bmRlcmluZy4NCg0KdGhlIHdpcmUgd3JhcCBsb29rcyBncmVhdCB0aG91Z2ghDQoNCkRKIFZlZ2gN Ck43NERWDQpNZXNhLCBBWg0Kd3d3LmltYWdlZHYuY29tL2FpcmNhbXBlcg0KDQoNCg0KLQ0KDQog IC0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0gDQogIEZyb206IEJBUk5TVE1SQGFvbC5jb20g DQogIFRvOiBwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIA0KICBTZW50OiBTdW5kYXksIE1h cmNoIDIxLCAyMDA0IDI6MTQgUE0NCiAgU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBXaXJl L3R1cm5idWNrbGVzDQoNCg0KICBUaGF0cyBhIGdvb2QgcG9pbnQgREouICBJIHdhcyBub3QgYXdh cmUgb2YgdGhlcmUgYmVpbmcgYSBjYWJsZS1leWUgdHlwZS4gIEkgd2FzIHdvbmRlcmluZyB3aHkg dGhlc2UgZGlkbid0IGhhdmUgdGhlIHNtb290aCByYWRpdXMgbGlrZSB0aGV5IG5lZWRlZCB0byBo YXZlLiAgVGhlcmUgd2FzIGEgc2xpZ2h0IHJhZGl1cywgbWF5YmUgLjAyNS4gIFNvIGJlZm9yZSB3 ZSBtYWRlIHVwIHRoZSBlbmRzLCBJIHdvcmtlZCBlYWNoIG9uZSBvdmVyIGEgYml0IHdpdGggYSBz bWFsbCByb3VuZCBmaWxlIHRvIGJyZWFrIHRoZSByYWRpdXMgYSBsaXR0bGUgbW9yZS4gIE5leHQg dGltZSwgSSB3aWxsIG9yZGVyIHRoZSBBTi0xNzAuDQoNCiAgVGVycnkgQiA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: cub lift struts on ebay
Date: Mar 21, 2004
Zm91bmQgdGhpcyB0b2RheS4uLi4NCg0KaHR0cDovL2NnaS5lYmF5LmNvbS9lYmF5bW90b3JzL3dz L2VCYXlJU0FQSS5kbGw/Vmlld0l0ZW0mY2F0ZWdvcnk9MjY0MzkmaXRlbT0yNDY3NTc1NzM0DQoN CkkgdGhpbmsgaGUncyBhc2tpbmcgYSBiaXQgdG9vIG11Y2ggYnV0IG1heWJlIGlmIHNvbWVvbmUg d2FzIGludGVyZXN0ZWQgdGhleSBjb3VsZCBlbWFpbCBoaW0gZGlyZWN0bHkgYXMgc3RyaWtlIGEg ZGVhbC4NCg0KREogVmVnaA0KTjc0RFYNCk1lc2EsIEFaDQp3d3cuaW1hZ2Vkdi5jb20vYWlyY2Ft cGVyDQoNCg0KDQotDQo ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
<006201c40fa7$fb06abd0$d2a86d44@Desktop>
Subject: Re: cub lift struts on ebay
Date: Mar 21, 2004
Got mine from the rafters of a local airport. Was put up to it by another homebuilder. There were hundreds of them. Didn't want to just take them, so went to the Mgr and made a deal. After cutting off the top and bottom, the visual inspection showed they were clean. sure beat $15.00 per foot for new. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 7:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cub lift struts on ebay found this today.... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category26439&item2467575734 I think he's asking a bit too much but maybe if someone was interested they could email him directly as strike a deal. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
<006201c40fa7$fb06abd0$d2a86d44@Desktop> <000c01c40fb5$9e18a910$2cc5fea9@home>
Subject: Re: cub lift struts on ebay
Date: Mar 21, 2004
Walt, I need to drive my honda from CT to MN in the fall. Do you think you can set me up with a set of struts when I come through? Chris Bobka ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 8:30 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cub lift struts on ebay


February 26, 2004 - March 21, 2004

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dt