Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-du
March 21, 2004 - April 29, 2004
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-du
March 21, 2004 - April 29, 2004
Got mine from the rafters of a local airport. Was put up to it by another homebuilder.
There were hundreds of them. Didn't want to just take them, so went
to the Mgr and made a deal. After cutting off the top and bottom, the visual
inspection showed they were clean. sure beat $15.00 per foot for new.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 7:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cub lift struts on ebay
found this today....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category26439&item2467575734
I think he's asking a bit too much but maybe if someone was interested they
could email him directly as strike a deal.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
<006201c40fa7$fb06abd0$d2a86d44@Desktop> <000c01c40fb5$9e18a910$2cc5fea9@home>
<001401c40fb7$bae7c600$0301a8c0@domain>
Subject: Re: cub lift struts on ebay
Date: Mar 21, 2004
Chris
There are generally a few sets in the Fly Mart at SNF every year.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cub lift struts on ebay
Walt,
I need to drive my honda from CT to MN in the fall. Do you think you can set
me up with a set of struts when I come through?
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cub lift struts on ebay
Got mine from the rafters of a local airport. Was put up to it by another
homebuilder. There were hundreds of them. Didn't want to just take them, so
went to the Mgr and made a deal. After cutting off the top and bottom, the visual
inspection showed they were clean. sure beat $15.00 per foot for new.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 7:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cub lift struts on ebay
found this today....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category26439&item2467575734
I think he's asking a bit too much but maybe if someone was interested they
could email him directly as strike a deal.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
<006201c40fa7$fb06abd0$d2a86d44@Desktop> <000c01c40fb5$9e18a910$2cc5fea9@home>
<001401c40fb7$bae7c600$0301a8c0@domain> <002b01c40fc0$535feef0$0600a8c0@laptop>
Subject: Re: cub lift struts on ebay
Date: Mar 21, 2004
Dick,
I am not driving from FL to MN but CT to MN. Walt is in NJ and I would go right
past Sussex.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cub lift struts on ebay
Chris
There are generally a few sets in the Fly Mart at SNF every year.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cub lift struts on ebay
Walt,
I need to drive my honda from CT to MN in the fall. Do you think you can set
me up with a set of struts when I come through?
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cub lift struts on ebay
Got mine from the rafters of a local airport. Was put up to it by another
homebuilder. There were hundreds of them. Didn't want to just take them, so
went to the Mgr and made a deal. After cutting off the top and bottom, the
visual inspection showed they were clean. sure beat $15.00 per foot for new.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 7:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cub lift struts on ebay
found this today....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category26439&item2467575734
I think he's asking a bit too much but maybe if someone was interested
they could email him directly as strike a deal.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 2004
From: Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net>
Subject: Cub lift struts for your Piet
This is a sort of general alert for anyone who will be using Cub lift
struts for their Piet. It is a great idea. The struts are a bit heavy and
wide for the Piet, but that is OK. The reason the old struts had to come
off was that the tops of the struts are open and allow water to run down
the inside of the strut. It collects in the bottom around the barrel which
is what the threaded fork screws into. The AD suggests that you use a
fabric punch ($300 or so) to punch a specified area around the bottom end
of the strut. If the punch goes through the paint and the steel, discard
the strut because it evidently has rusted from the inside and is no longer
up to strength standards. Terrible way to check for rust! First of all,
it sure beats up your fabric tester, whose exact size point will get
damaged, and thus no good for fabric tests any more. The new Cub struts
are sealed at the top end.
The other thing is that I understand that at least two Cubs lost struts
even after the punch tests. The signed off tests may not have detected the
inside rust - or could have been just signoffs - not really any testing,
but who knows?
If you want a more specific way to check for rust, go to WalMart and
purchase a tiny grain-of-wheat 12 volt light bulb in the automotive
department. Costs maybe $3. Solder a pair of 20 or 18 gage wires maybe
two feet long to the light bulb. Daub the end of the light bulb with
Glyptal to insulate it. Put the strut on a pair of horses or on your bench
(not under a bright light). Remove the fork from the barrel. Connect the
light wires to a 12 volt source and shove the light into the barrel
end. Stick your eyeball into the barrel end and look around. It is
amazing that you can see every little flaw inside the strut with that
bright little light. In a few seconds, the hot little light bulb may start
to smoke up from anticorrosion oil in the strut, and you won't see anything
then but smoke.
If you use the Cub struts on your Piet, and use the fork end on the
fuselage, you will continue to expose the Cub strut to the rainy and wet
elements (if your struts are open at the top), and your struts may continue
to rust. Save your WalMart bulb and wires and check the struts every
year. No punch test needed.
Check your struts before you buy them. It takes 30 seconds per strut.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 22, 2004
Subject: .090 4130 question
Does anyone know about what size .090 (13 gauge) 4130 sheet I would need for
my entire Piet project?. Was going to order some .090 sheared to 5/8" for use
on the tail feather fittings but neither Wicks or AS shrears it that small so
I figured I may as well order enough for the whole airplane.
Also, the tail center brace fittings on the plans are labeled 12 gauge rather
than 13 gauge like most of the rest, does everyone just use 13 gauge for that?
Thank You
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: dj's posts
Date: Mar 22, 2004
Is anyone else getting posts from DJ that look like they're in Cyrillic? Everyone
else is fine but his are undecipherable. I'm in the "digest" mode if that makes
any difference...........
Larry
ps. John Ficklen had a successful encounter with the FAA rep on Saturday and his
Piet now has it's certificate to commit aviation!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Re: .090 4130 question
Date: Mar 22, 2004
Wicks has sheared 4130 for me down to 1/2" wide. They ask which way to orient the
grain and then they cut it. Even on saturday mornings they have.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:57 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: .090 4130 question
Does anyone know about what size .090 (13 gauge) 4130 sheet I would need for
my entire Piet project?. Was going to order some .090 sheared to 5/8" for use
on the tail feather fittings but neither Wicks or AS shrears it that small so
I figured I may as well order enough for the whole airplane.
Also, the tail center brace fittings on the plans are labeled 12 gauge rather
than 13 gauge like most of the rest, does everyone just use 13 gauge for that?
Thank You
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 22, 2004
Subject: Pulling a corvair engine
Piet Corvair people -
I found a 65 Covair at the junkyard for a hundred bucks, only catch is I have
to pull it out of the car. I have pulled bug engines before and have all the
tools to do that. Question is do I need any special tools to pull this engine?
Also, does anyone know if you can read the engine block number while still in
the car? I have WW's manual.
RickH
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Pulling a corvair engine
Date: Mar 22, 2004
Standard SAE wrenches and sockets are all you need. The Engines drop out the bottom---Jack
the rear of the car and place on jackstands, undo all the bell housing
to transaxle bolts you can get to, disconnect the starter, with the engine
on an engine jack remove the rear motor mount, lower the engine about 6 inches
and you can get to the top bell housing and starter bolts. Well a little
more than this but you can get the gist of it. Yes the block #'s are located
just forward of the oil filter/fuel pump casting.
Jim Dallas
Owner of a pair of Corvairs
Builder of a Piet and Hatz----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 7:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pulling a corvair engine
Piet Corvair people -
I found a 65 Covair at the junkyard for a hundred bucks, only catch is I have
to pull it out of the car. I have pulled bug engines before and have all the
tools to do that. Question is do I need any special tools to pull this engine?
Also, does anyone know if you can read the engine block number while still in
the car? I have WW's manual.
RickH
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 23, 2004
Subject: Compression Springs
Pieters,
Would someone please send me the part # for the landing gear compression
springs as listed by MCMaster .com. Thanks
Corky in beautiful La
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: John Ficklen about to fly 1st Flight
<005701c4109b$c9619f50$14048841@Spot>
Just got off the phone with John F. in Florida and he's got his
airworthiness certificate in hand
and will be taking his new 75 hp Continental-powered Pietenpol Air Camper
out to the airport
tomorrow. He's looking at this weekend for his first flight. He took 25
months, taking time off
for simultaneous knee replacement surgery somewhere during that time. John
is a retired Eastern
airline pilot and from all indications he's got a show stopper on his hands
in this Piet. Congratulations, John !
Mike C.
In Ohio
PS-- John's plane may make it to SNF and if so he said to look for a cream
and green high wing !
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: couple of items on ebay
Date: Mar 23, 2004
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Cg0KDQotDQoNCg==
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
<004a01c4112d$ba65f0e0$d2a86d44@Desktop> <000d01c41131$19cdbd80$0301a8c0@domain>
Subject: Re: couple of items on ebay
Date: Mar 23, 2004
dGhhdCdzIHdlaXJkIGNhdXNlIEkgY2FuIGNsaWNrIHRoZSBsaW5rcyBpbiBteSBwb3N0IGJlbG93
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
<004a01c4112d$ba65f0e0$d2a86d44@Desktop> <000d01c41131$19cdbd80$0301a8c0@domain>
<007701c41135$18833f50$d2a86d44@Desktop> <001701c41139$9446ea20$0301a8c0@domain>
Subject: Re: couple of items on ebay
Date: Mar 23, 2004
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Piet project for sale on ebay.
Date: Mar 23, 2004
I'm selling this for a friend who just got a new job in another city and can't
take it with him...since it has a pretty low reserve, it will make a really nice,
low cost head start on an Air Camper for someone (I wish it had been available
when I started!).
The workmanship is beautiful. Included is the fuse, all ribs, complete tail section
ready to cover (with all tail metal parts, including hinges & horns) and
a big stack of spruce. The only additional wood to purchase would be the spars.
The eBay item number is: 2469389291
For a few extra dollars I could include the metal tail parts (horns/hinges/etc)
in my next sandblasting/powdercoating run.
Also included, if interested, is a rib jig and fiberglass center section tank (the
tank is in a plastic bag and looks ok but probably needs some patching here
and there....)
I can take pictures with more detail (than shown on eBay) for anyone interested
in buying the project.
Jim in Plano.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 24, 2004
Subject: Re: EAA's new "Sport Pilot" magazine
Doc,
Thanks for this update. The Sport Aviation publication which comes with EAA
membership is an excellent publication however it has little to hold my
interest. I called EAA weeks back and asked if they would send me the new Sport
Pilot
magazine in lieu of Sport Aviation. I was pleased that the answer was yes.
I'm looking forward to that April issue. Thanks
Corky in La waiting for the Sport Pilot to pass also.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2004
From: Richard Carden <flywrite(at)erols.com>
Subject: Web spar
Pieters:
I'm thinking about making my wing spars from plywood with cap strips.
Does anyone know of a PROVEN design . . . that is one that has been
built and is actually flying?
I'd appreciate any referrals.
Many thanks,
Dick Carden
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Web spar
Date: Mar 24, 2004
the Fisher line of aircraft use a plywood spar with sitka spruce caps. My
dad has them on his Fisher Celebrity. Good and strong. I don't have actual
dimensions but I'm going over tohis hour on Thursday and can get them if
you'd like.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Carden
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Web spar
Pieters:
I'm thinking about making my wing spars from plywood with cap strips.
Does anyone know of a PROVEN design . . . that is one that has been
built and is actually flying?
I'd appreciate any referrals.
Many thanks,
Dick Carden
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Knot2Shabby5TA6(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 24, 2004
Subject: Re: Web spar
Dick:
I built an Avid Flyer about 13 years ago. It had plywood ribs with a very
wide capstrip. The capstrips were wide enough that Avid did not advise or
recommend rib stitching. In fact, the factory Avid Speedwing could zip along at
130
MPH and I personally did aerobatics in one. There has never been a situation of
fabric pulling off of a glue-down capstrip on an Avid. The pilots who worked
at Avid flew the devil out of their factory airplanes, on many occasions from
Idaho to Sun & Fun.
I loaned my Avid to a guy when I was away on a business trip. He stalled it
out at about 300 feet and the resulting crash destroyed my airplane (did not
injure the pilot). The plywood ribs held up very well. Much to my amazement,
Avid spars are made of aluminum tube (both front and rear spars.) The plywood rib
is bonded to the aluminum spar with a two part 3M epoxy. Not a single joint
failed in the crash but chromoly tubing on the fuselage pulled apart at a
couple of weld points and in the middle of tube where no weld was present. When
I
took the wreck home to begin salvaging what I could, I had great difficulty in
tearing the fabric from the capstrips. If memory serves me correct, the
capstrips were about 3/4 inch wide.
I had thought about plywood ribs last night and today my goal was to track
down a friend of mine who was the GM at Avid to see if I could find out who made
their ribs. I like the idea of glued-on fabric without rib stitching (despite
the fact that there are nonbelievers in this method) because the end result
is a very attractive wing, not to mention saving some labor.
If I locate someone who can build such a plywood rib, I'll contact you. In
the meantime, I'm going to also try and locate Avid's former R&D guy. A terrific
pilot and A&P named Jim Raider. (I may have spelled his last name wrong.)
Jim is one of those guys who in VERY analytical and wouldn't incorporate
something into his project unless it was a proven process. I think Jim built an
Avid
Magnum with a 160HP Lycoming using plywood ribs and no rib stitching.
Sterling Brooks
Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch
5TA6 (San Antonio Sectional)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
<004a01c4112d$ba65f0e0$d2a86d44@Desktop> <000d01c41131$19cdbd80$0301a8c0@domain>
<007701c41135$18833f50$d2a86d44@Desktop> <001701c41139$9446ea20$0301a8c0@domain>
<009601c4113e$24ce2230$d2a86d44@Desktop> <001101c41148$ffad9520$0301a8c0@domain>
Subject: aux fuel tanks
Date: Mar 24, 2004
I've got a Corvair for power and it's supposed to burn about 5-6gph. My
fuse tank can be no larger than about 13 gal. (limited to weight/CG issues
not physical size)
That gives me 2 hrs of flight at best..... cruising at 80mph thats only 160
mile range. Fuel stops out here in the desert are far and few between. For
the longer trips to fly-ins it'd be nice to have an extra 10 gallons or so.
well... I came across these today
http://www.ultralight.ca/fuelsystem.htm (scroll down a little bit)
Aux tanks that mount up to the struts. They look sorta like a wheel pant.
about 5.3 US gal. capacity. Thats an extra 1.5 hrs of flight time.
I'd like to hear some feedback from y'all. Maybe these are not such a hot
idea... or maybe they' d be great... what do ya think?
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: aux fuel tanks
<004a01c4112d$ba65f0e0$d2a86d44@Desktop>
<000d01c41131$19cdbd80$0301a8c0@domain>
<007701c41135$18833f50$d2a86d44@Desktop>
<001701c41139$9446ea20$0301a8c0@domain>
<009601c4113e$24ce2230$d2a86d44@Desktop>
<001101c41148$ffad9520$0301a8c0@domain>
<009d01c41220$727e26a0$d2a86d44@Desktop>
The Chinook is one tough airplane( check it out
on the link panel on the left of the page) and
has been around for a long time. Some have
seen use as bush planes. You'll see two of these
tanks on it. That's the entire fuel supply. That's
a pretty good endorsement. Also they're semi
transparent, built in fuel gauge!
Clif
Subject: Pietenpol-List: aux fuel tanks
> >
> well... I came across these today
>
> http://www.ultralight.ca/fuelsystem.htm (scroll down a little bit)
>
> Aux tanks that mount up to the struts. They look sorta like a wheel pant.
> about 5.3 US gal. capacity. Thats an extra 1.5 hrs of flight time.
>
> I'd like to hear some feedback from y'all. Maybe these are not such a hot
> idea... or maybe they' d be great... what do ya think?
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Web spar
Date: Mar 25, 2004
Dick,
I am building my Piet with plywood and cap strip spars. I bought a set of
Piet plans from Donald Pietenpol's UK Distributor that have PFA approval.
The front spars are 4 3/4 x 1 1/8 made up of 1 1/4 x 7/8 cap strips with ply
completely on one side and partially on the other. The rear spars are 4 3/4
x 1 made up of 7/8 x 3/4 cap strip. The center section uses 1 1/4 x 7/8 cap
strips (same as front spar). Check out my web site http://www.cpc-world.com
for some pictures. Click on "Airframe Construction" --> "Wings" --> "Wing
Spars".
Some of the UK flying Piets are detailed at http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/.
Cheers
Peter.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Carden
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Web spar
-->
Pieters:
I'm thinking about making my wing spars from plywood with cap strips.
Does anyone know of a PROVEN design . . . that is one that has been built
and is actually flying?
I'd appreciate any referrals.
Many thanks,
Dick Carden
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)" <alexander.birca(at)ericsson.com>
Subject: Web spar
Date: Mar 25, 2004
Dick,
Have a look to this site: http://www.solent-strut.co.uk
They are building Jim Wills modification of wing which is exactly what you need.
PFA approved design.
BR,
Alex
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Carden
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Web spar
-->
Pieters:
I'm thinking about making my wing spars from plywood with cap strips.
Does anyone know of a PROVEN design . . . that is one that has been built and is
actually flying?
I'd appreciate any referrals.
Many thanks,
Dick Carden
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: carrying extra fuel
DJ-- would carrying an extra 5 gallons of fuel strapped in the front seat
help you out or do you want access to the fuel in flight ? (I'd
imagine) I think the sight of those tanks on a Piet would be a turn off
(for me anyway) and what do you do with them once you get to a fly-in ? I
guess tho one thing I've found is that once you get somewhere if you are
camping out the tent holds and protects everything you've brought with you
and the tanks could be put in there. (though I wouldn't want that fuel
smell in my tent all night)
Any chance to put even a few gallons in say one of your wing rib bays
?? Near the root ?? A nice pair of alum. tanks between the front and rear
spars would fit nicely and I'll bet would give you at least an extra 10
gallons. Now would be the time to do that with your new set of wings
! Would be really nice to have those wing tanks---and hidden, and unique,
and totally functional without all those brackets and fuel lines, fuel pump
creating more drag.
Just some thoughts with coffee......
Mike C. in rain, but warm Ohio !
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Piet project for sale on ebay.
Date: Mar 25, 2004
Jim,
Is the Piet project an extended fuse? Plans come with it?
Thanks
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by ESPN.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 25, 2004
Subject: Re: aux fuel tanks
Why not put another tank in the wing center section?
I've got a Corvair for power and it's supposed to burn about 5-6gph. My
fuse tank can be no larger than about 13 gal. (limited to weight/CG issues
not physical size)
That gives me 2 hrs of flight at best..... cruising at 80mph thats only 160
mile range. Fuel stops out here in the desert are far and few between. For
the longer trips to fly-ins it'd be nice to have an extra 10 gallons or so.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: aux fuel tanks
Date: Mar 25, 2004
I may do that... it would take some extensive modification of the center
section as I have built it already. Maybe I could at least put a 4 gallon
tank in there without changing it. I'll measure it out and do the math
tonight.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aux fuel tanks
Why not put another tank in the wing center section?
I've got a Corvair for power and it's supposed to burn about 5-6gph. My
fuse tank can be no larger than about 13 gal. (limited to weight/CG issues
not physical size)
That gives me 2 hrs of flight at best..... cruising at 80mph thats only 160
mile range. Fuel stops out here in the desert are far and few between. For
the longer trips to fly-ins it'd be nice to have an extra 10 gallons or so.
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2004
From: Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net>
Subject: Web spar Piet wings
Richard -
When the Pietenpol was "discovered" by the Brits, it was acknowledged as a
great airplane for its purpose. However, the availability and the high
cost of spruce for the wings was a problem for builders. A fine gentleman
by the name of Jim Wills, who lives in East London, with the cooperation of
the Pietenpol family, designed and built a set of wings using just the kind
of web spar you are describing. Rather than an I beam, his spar is, as
Peter describes, really a C section. The PFA in the UK approved the
redesign, and most of the Piets there use Jim's web spar.
Peter, you are in Australia, and Jim will sell you a set of
plans. However, I live in North America, and Jim is reluctant to sell me a
set of his webspar plans. Wichita, the home of many aviation liability
lawsuits, is in North America, and Jim does not want to get burned. Try as
I have, I have not convinced Jim that in the USA the amateur builder of the
airplane is responsible for its airworthiness, not the
designer. Fortunately for me, one night I had a revelatory experience
(Mike Cuy knows I have these at times), and on awakening, I was able to
draw up sketches (for my personal use only) of just such a wing plan. If
you need a copy of my sketches, let me know.
The PFA approved plans for the Jim Wills style of Piet produces a stronger,
lighter, and lower cost wing. The wing is a three-piece wing, with an
emphasis on easy disassembly for storage during winter. In fact, Jim has
built in a clever set of aileron system arms that butt against each other
upon attachment of the wings to the center section and thus eliminate
having to disconnect and reconnect the aileron cable control system.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2004
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Piet project for sale on ebay.
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2004
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Piet project for sale on ebay.
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 25, 2004
Subject: Re: Web spar
In a message dated 3/24/04 2:24:43 PM Central Standard Time,
flywrite(at)erols.com writes:
<< I'm thinking about making my wing spars from plywood with cap strips. >>
Richard,
Why are you considering this mod ?
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 25, 2004
Subject: Re: aux fuel tanks
In a message dated 3/24/04 10:23:10 PM Central Standard Time, djv(at)imagedv.com
writes:
<< I've got a Corvair for power and it's supposed to burn about 5-6gph. My
fuse tank can be no larger than about 13 gal. (limited to weight/CG issues
not physical size) >>
DJ,
I think the center section is the best place to put your extra fuel. Simple
reliable gravity feed, on the CG, replentish the cowl tank, no pumps, no fuel
quantity indicator needed.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 26, 2004
Subject: Re: aux fuel tanks
There's two aspects of safety.
1) Airworthiness
2) Crashworthiness
If you optimize the design for #1, then you minimize the probability of #2
being a factor. Chuck's point is that the simple gravity flow system is more
airworthy than the other design, i.e. the liklihood of engine failure due to
fuel starvation is minimal. The more complicated system with fuel pumps, etc
increases the liklihood of fuel starvation, thus decreasing the airworthiness.
Yeah, it is more crash worthy... but do we consider that safe? And who really
wants to go do that test?
I think that if more folks designed from the "airworthiness" point of view,
there would be far fewer homebuilt airplane accidents.
Thats my $ .02.
Terry B
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Web spar
Date: Mar 26, 2004
Dick,
I can't help you with a "proven and flying" example but I do have an article
from an early Sport Aviation issue that deals with designing a plywood
webbed spar.
I don't have a scanner but if you, or anyone else, wants a copy just
send a stamped, self-addressed envelope to me and I'll mail a copy.
Greg Cardinal
5236 Shoreview Ave.
Minneapolis, MN 55417
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Carden" <flywrite(at)erols.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Web spar
>
> Pieters:
>
> I'm thinking about making my wing spars from plywood with cap strips.
>
> Does anyone know of a PROVEN design . . . that is one that has been
> built and is actually flying?
>
> I'd appreciate any referrals.
>
> Many thanks,
> Dick Carden
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2004
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: aux fuel tanks
>There's two aspects of safety.
>1) Airworthiness
>2) Crashworthiness
>
>If you optimize the design for #1, then you minimize the probability
>of #2 being a factor. Chuck's point is that the simple gravity flow
>system is more airworthy than the other design, i.e. the liklihood
>of engine failure due to fuel starvation is minimal. The more
>complicated system with fuel pumps, etc increases the liklihood of
>fuel starvation, thus decreasing the airworthiness. Yeah, it is
>more crash worthy... but do we consider that safe? And who really
>wants to go do that test?
>
>I think that if more folks designed from the "airworthiness" point
>of view, there would be far fewer homebuilt airplane accidents.
>
>Thats my $ .02.
>
>Terry B
In this vein, I've noted before that WmWynne had a center section
tank that he made by glassing in most of it. This tank had about 20
gal. capacity & it did not rupture in the crash that destroyed his
Piet. As he has mentioned several times, he believes that there would
not have been a fire if he had put check valves on his tank outlets
that would have stopped fuel flow when the lines sheared off in the
crash.
All this sounds both airworthy and simple to me, and 20 gal. gives
adequate flight time at Corvair burn rates. Also, allows you to use
the forward section for baggage & then there are no shifting w&B
issues to deal with, as many people have mentioned happens when you
burn off gas in a nose tank.
That's my $.02 :).
Kip Gardner
--
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 26, 2004
Subject: Re: aux fuel tanks
In a message dated 3/26/04 5:49:08 PM Central Standard Time,
kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< As he has mentioned several times, he believes that there would
not have been a fire if he had put check valves on his tank outlets
that would have stopped fuel flow when the lines sheared off in the
crash. >>
Kip,
This is a 'Crashworthy Device'. I've heard of this type of check valve,
but haven't seen any in use. I believe it's design is a delicate balance
between the fuel flow needed for sustained full power oporation, and the increased
fuel flow of a ruptured line. If the valve fails during service, it could
starve the engine for fuel. If the valve fails at the crash site, it would
still allow fuel to flow, especially if it is just a cracked line or fitting,
allowing just a small quantity of fuel to flow. Or, if the craft came to rest
in
an attitude that doesn't allow full fuel flow. Personally, I don't like this
type of valve, and wouldn't use it.
The best design would be to use one outlet, and one good quality ball
valve, mounted right to the bottom of the wing tank (above the passengers head),
actuated via a torque tube back to the pilot seat. Emergency check list would
include turning the fuel off.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: operation manual
Date: Mar 26, 2004
For anyone who is interested, I have completed a base Operation Manual for the Piet. I have deleted most of the Pictures for my manual but the file still comes to about 1.5 mb. Too large to post so if anyone wants to copy it respond direct at www.horzpool(at)goldengate.net and I will send it out. It run about 22 pages.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: operation manual
Date: Mar 27, 2004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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Clapp" <theoffice(at)socket.net>
Subject: Re: operation manual
Date: Mar 27, 2004
Dick: I would like a copy if possible, thanks. Dave Clapp theoffice(at)socket.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:27 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: operation manual
For anyone who is interested, I have completed a base Operation Manual for the Piet. I have deleted most of the Pictures for my manual but the file still comes to about 1.5 mb. Too large to post so if anyone wants to copy it respond direct at www.horzpool(at)goldengate.net and I will send it out. It run about 22 pages.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: drag wires
Date: Mar 27, 2004
For the drag and anti-drag wires, are most guys using 1/8th, 1 x 19
stainless steel cable?
Jeff in windy Texas getting ready to take the 1926 Disappearing Propellor
Boat to the boat show
in Hot Springs, AR next weekend. I don't think there will be any piets on
floats there.
http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/home.asp
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: operation manual
Date: Mar 27, 2004
Dick,
if you email it to me I can post it on my website and then provide a link to
the list for others to download.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
Subject: Pietenpol-List: operation manual
For anyone who is interested, I have completed a base Operation Manual for
the Piet. I have deleted most of the Pictures for my manual but the file
still comes to about 1.5 mb. Too large to post so if anyone wants to copy
it respond direct at www.horzpool(at)goldengate.net and I will send it out.
It run about 22 pages.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
Subject: Re: operation manual
Date: Mar 27, 2004
I can change it to a PDF file if needed.
Bob B. - Missouri
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: operation manual
>
> Dick,
>
> if you email it to me I can post it on my website and then provide a link
to
> the list for others to download.
>
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard Navratil
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:27 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: operation manual
>
>
> For anyone who is interested, I have completed a base Operation Manual for
> the Piet. I have deleted most of the Pictures for my manual but the file
> still comes to about 1.5 mb. Too large to post so if anyone wants to copy
> it respond direct at www.horzpool(at)goldengate.net and I will send it
out.
> It run about 22 pages.
> Dick N.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2004
Subject: [ Richard Navratil ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Richard Navratil
Lists: Pietenpol-List
Subject: Pietenpol Operations Manual
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/horzpool@goldengate.net.03.27.2004/index.html
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cory Emberson" <bootless(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Santa Maria CA Fly-in (April 30-May 2)
Date: Mar 27, 2004
Hello everyone!
With Matt Dralle's blessing (thank you, Matt!), I'm pleased to post this announcement
for a terrific aviation fly-in weekend. SMXgig (in Santa Maria, CA) has
become the year's largest face-to-face get-together of electronically networked
aviators. We hope you'll plan to attend because we expect this year's gig to
be the best ever.
People come from all over the country (and sometimes overseas) to attend, and most of the sessions qualify for FAA Wings cards. The dates are 4/30-5/2/04 (Friday-Sunday) - it's a lot of fun, and a great chance for pilots from all over to mingle and share aviation stories, ideas, etc. The announcement below contains most of the crucial information, and you can get the rest from the website (www.smxgig.org). If you have any questions at all, just let me know, and thanks!
~~Cory Emberson
KHWD
>>> NOTICE TO AIRMEN! <<<
Announcing the Sixteenth Annual SMXgig
to be held on April 30 - May 2, 2004
at the Radisson on the Santa Maria (CA) Airport (aka SMX)
www.smxgig.org
SMXgig will be April 30 - May 2, 2004, at the Santa Maria Radisson. This year,
our featured speaker after Friday night's dinner will be Rod Machado!
"MACH 2 WITH MACHADO" is the byline Rod Machado has earned for his rapid fire delivery
at his lively safety seminars and keynote speeches. His programs are information-packed,
energetic, and humorous. He has spoken in all fifty of the
United States and in Europe sharing his fresh approach to aviation education.
If you can make it, please do. It's going to be pretty special. More information and the announcement/ registration info is available at www.smxgig.org You may also contact me by email at: cory(at)smxgig.org.
All technical sessions will be held in the Enterprise Ballroom at the SMX Radisson.
Each session will last about an hour. We schedule four tech sessions on Saturday
morning, and four on Sunday morning. Most of the speakers are set (I'm
still firming up a couple of slots - I'm working on a session about Experimentals):
MIKE BUSCH - The Art and Science of Troubleshooting
Your A frequently, that person is you. That's particularly true of problems that
occur only in-flight and/or are intermittent. This session offers methodology
for troubleshooting aimed at aircraft owners who aren't A&Ps.
ED WILLIAMS - GPS - How It Works, and How to Work It
Ed is a nuclear physicist working at Lawrence Livermore Labs. Ed does a
remarkable job of making physics phun!
BRENT BLUE, M.D. - Pilot Medicals: How to Avoid Problems with the FAA
Brent is an AME Advocate, who specializes in helping the tough cases renew their
medicals. He's a former member of EAA's medical advisory committee.
DOUG RITTER - Equipping Yourself To Survive - Personal Survival Gear for Pilots
Doug is a survival evangelist, personally driven to help pilots live through whatever comes next. www.equipped.org
PAUL MILLNER - The Future of Avgas
Paul works with ChevronTexaco, and is right in the middle of the industry developments
regarding our fuel of choice.
MARY DUFFY & UWE LEMKE - Flying in Europe
Mary and Uwe are a Scot and a German who live in the San Francisco Bay Area, but
return "home" often.
As always, each qualifying session will get you a WINGS Safety Session card.
Our Saturday evening event should be a delicious one! At 5:45 p.m., the BFUB (Big Fat Ugly Bus) will arrive at the Santa Maria Radisson to bring us to the Far Western Tavern for dinner in beautiful Guadalupe (www.farwesterntavern.com).
DOLLARS AND CENTS
Just as in previous years, there will be one flat all-encompassing "gig" fee that
covers all events that involve significant out-of-pocket costs for the organizers.
The fee is $160 per person, and will cover:
- Friday afternoon welcome party
- Friday evening dinner banquet
- Saturday and Sunday tech sessions
- Saturday afternoon lunch
- Saturday evening dinner at the Far Western Tavern in Guadalupe
- Meeting rooms and coffee service at the Santa Maria Radisson
- Transportation to (and from) the Far Western Tavern
Lodging at the SMX Radisson will cost $89.00/night for either a single or double
room, which is far below the regular hotel room rate. Be sure you check in as
a SMXgig attendee and get the special rate. We have our definitive preference
listed with the hotel for rampside rooms - early registration can only help,
but of course, the rampside rooms are subject to availability depending on how
many existing guests are in those rooms.
You do not need to register with the hotel - just give me your preferences, and
I will take care of the reservations.
Important: This year, our final rooming lists are due to the hotel on April 11,
2004 (the even of Sun 'n Fun), which will guarantee space and the group rate.
The hotel will accept additional room reservations after that, on a space- and
rate-available basis. They will try their best to accommodate us after that
date, but the hotel is already sold out for the weekend.
The website (www.smxgig.org) has detailed information about the schedule, meals, hotel accommodations, and online registration. If you'd like your own announcement/registration emailed to you, or have any other questions, just let me know. (cory(at)smxgig.org or bootless(at)earthlink.net ).
Thanks, and see you there!
best, Cory Emberson
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: drag wires
Date: Mar 27, 2004
Hi Jeff,
That's what I used.
Jack Phillips
Spraying silver now that the weather in Raleigh has gotten warm enough
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Hill
Subject: Pietenpol-List: drag wires
For the drag and anti-drag wires, are most guys using 1/8th, 1 x 19
stainless steel cable?
Jeff in windy Texas getting ready to take the 1926 Disappearing Propellor
Boat to the boat show
in Hot Springs, AR next weekend. I don't think there will be any piets on
floats there.
http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/home.asp
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: I like my Continental
Date: Mar 27, 2004
Went out yesterday to fire up the Piet. Last flight was Dec 28th.
I started it as usual,,,Two shots of the primer, check switch off, pull thru
6 blades, left mag on, flip it and it's running! Both mags on, and up comes
the oil pressure.
The start of a grand summer season.
(still had to drive around wads of snow on the grassy field)
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: operation manual
Date: Mar 27, 2004
To all who responded for the manual.
Photo shares came through with a working version of the manual which I see got
posted today. I edited out some of the pics to save download time. I am still
working on finishing performance, but I thought it would be good to throw it
out for comment and suggestions at this point.
It it a Word document so it can be edited.
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/horzpool@goldengate.net03.27.2004/index.html
Thanks
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl" <skycarl@buckeye-express.com>
Subject: operation manual
Date: Mar 28, 2004
Wow Richard,,,,, what a super job. Many will benefit from your work on this.
Thanks
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
Navratil
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 6:39 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: operation manual
To all who responded for the manual.
Photo shares came through with a working version of the manual which I see
got posted today. I edited out some of the pics to save download time. I
am still working on finishing performance, but I thought it would be good to
throw it out for comment and suggestions at this point.
It it a Word document so it can be edited.
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/horzpool@goldengate.net03.27.2004/index.
html
Thanks
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2004
From: Leo Gates <leogates(at)allvantage.com>
Netscape/7.01
Subject: Re: operation manual
Outstanding start!
I have a Taylorcraft BC12-D with an A65-8. A review of the aircraft
Owners Manual, Service Manual and the Engine Maintenance and Overhaul
Manual comes up with a few differences. A couple of comments for those
using a Continental A65-8:
Page 2: Engine is rated 65 HP at 2300 RPM - not 2100 RPM
Page 3: Engine is 171 cu. inch displacement (From Maint. Manual - A50,
A65, A75 and A80 engines. All have the same displacement)
Page 6: Oil temp. 120 - 220F and Oil press. 10-35
Leo Gates
Richard Navratil wrote:
> To all who responded for the manual.
> Photo shares came through with a working version of the manual which I
> see got posted today. I edited out some of the pics to save download
> time. I am still working on finishing performance, but I thought it
> would be good to throw it out for comment and suggestions at this point.
> It it a Word document so it can be edited.
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/horzpool@goldengate.net03.27.2004/index.html
>
> Thanks
> Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: operation manual
Date: Mar 28, 2004
Any
reason I get a "This page cannot be displayed" message when I
try to link to Dick Navatril's Ops Manual?
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by ESPN.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Knot2Shabby5TA6(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 28, 2004
Subject: Re: operation manual
The below link to the manual did not work.
Not Found
The requested URL /photoshare/horzpool(at)goldengate.net03.27.2004/index.html
was not found on this server.
Apache/1.3.27 Server at www.matronics.com Port 80
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: operation manual
Date: Mar 28, 2004
Thanks, this is exactly the kind of input I need. There is so much information
I couldn't find in the manuals.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Leo Gates
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: operation manual
Outstanding start!
I have a Taylorcraft BC12-D with an A65-8. A review of the aircraft Owners Manual,
Service Manual and the Engine Maintenance and Overhaul Manual comes up
with a few differences. A couple of comments for those using a Continental A65-8:
Page 2: Engine is rated 65 HP at 2300 RPM - not 2100 RPM
Page 3: Engine is 171 cu. inch displacement (From Maint. Manual - A50, A65,
A75 and A80 engines. All have the same displacement)
Page 6: Oil temp. 120 - 220F and Oil press. 10-35
Leo Gates
Richard Navratil wrote:
To all who responded for the manual.
Photo shares came through with a working version of the manual which I see
got posted today. I edited out some of the pics to save download time. I am
still working on finishing performance, but I thought it would be good to throw
it out for comment and suggestions at this point.
It it a Word document so it can be edited.
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/horzpool@goldengate.net03.27.2004/index.html
Thanks
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: operation manual
Date: Mar 28, 2004
Try www.matronics.com/photoshare and scroll down to it
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Ragan
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 4:39 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: operation manual
Any reason I get a "This page cannot be displayed" message when I try to
link to Dick Navatril's Ops Manual?
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by ESPN. Matronics Forums. http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: operation manual
Date: Mar 28, 2004
Try www.matronics.com/photoshare and scroll down to it
----- Original Message -----
From: Knot2Shabby5TA6(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: operation manual
The below link to the manual did not work.
Not Found
The requested URL /photoshare/horzpool(at)goldengate.net03.27.2004/index.html was
not found on this server.
Apache/1.3.27 Server at www.matronics.com Port 80
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
<000b01c4152c$b6b64780$0600a8c0@laptop>
Subject: Re: operation manual
Date: Mar 28, 2004
This is the proper link for the manual
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/horzpool@goldengate.net.03.27.2004/PietenpolOperationManualWorking.doc
word that need help... aspirated, Alcohol, temperatures, reference, judgment, incombustible,
simplify, surfaces. Also,
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: operation manual
Thanks, this is exactly the kind of input I need. There is so much information
I couldn't find in the manuals.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Leo Gates
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: operation manual
Outstanding start!
I have a Taylorcraft BC12-D with an A65-8. A review of the aircraft Owners
Manual, Service Manual and the Engine Maintenance and Overhaul Manual comes up
with a few differences. A couple of comments for those using a Continental
A65-8:
Page 2: Engine is rated 65 HP at 2300 RPM - not 2100 RPM
Page 3: Engine is 171 cu. inch displacement (From Maint. Manual - A50, A65,
A75 and A80 engines. All have the same displacement)
Page 6: Oil temp. 120 - 220F and Oil press. 10-35
Leo Gates
Richard Navratil wrote:
To all who responded for the manual.
Photo shares came through with a working version of the manual which I see
got posted today. I edited out some of the pics to save download time. I am
still working on finishing performance, but I thought it would be good to throw
it out for comment and suggestions at this point.
It it a Word document so it can be edited.
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/horzpool@goldengate.net03.27.2004/index.html
Thanks
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: operation manual
Date: Mar 29, 2004
Dick,
I am out pn the road right now but when I get back to MSP I will look at what you
wrote.
chris
do not arcive
>
> From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
> Date: 2004/03/29 Mon AM 01:25:20 GMT
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: operation manual
>
> Thanks, this is exactly the kind of input I need. There is so much information
I couldn't find in the manuals.
> Dick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Leo Gates
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:11 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: operation manual
>
>
> Outstanding start!
>
> I have a Taylorcraft BC12-D with an A65-8. A review of the aircraft Owners
Manual, Service Manual and the Engine Maintenance and Overhaul Manual comes up
with a few differences. A couple of comments for those using a Continental
A65-8:
>
> Page 2: Engine is rated 65 HP at 2300 RPM - not 2100 RPM
> Page 3: Engine is 171 cu. inch displacement (From Maint. Manual - A50, A65,
A75 and A80 engines. All have the same displacement)
> Page 6: Oil temp. 120 - 220F and Oil press. 10-35
>
> Leo Gates
>
>
>
> Richard Navratil wrote:
>
> To all who responded for the manual.
> Photo shares came through with a working version of the manual which I see
got posted today. I edited out some of the pics to save download time. I am
still working on finishing performance, but I thought it would be good to throw
it out for comment and suggestions at this point.
> It it a Word document so it can be edited.
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/horzpool@goldengate.net03.27.2004/index.html
>
> Thanks
> Dick N.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: operation manual
Date: Mar 29, 2004
Dick,
I am out pn the road right now but when I get back to MSP I will look at what you
wrote.
chris
do not arcive
>
> From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
> Date: 2004/03/29 Mon AM 01:25:20 GMT
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: operation manual
>
> Thanks, this is exactly the kind of input I need. There is so much information
I couldn't find in the manuals.
> Dick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Leo Gates
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:11 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: operation manual
>
>
> Outstanding start!
>
> I have a Taylorcraft BC12-D with an A65-8. A review of the aircraft Owners
Manual, Service Manual and the Engine Maintenance and Overhaul Manual comes up
with a few differences. A couple of comments for those using a Continental
A65-8:
>
> Page 2: Engine is rated 65 HP at 2300 RPM - not 2100 RPM
> Page 3: Engine is 171 cu. inch displacement (From Maint. Manual - A50, A65,
A75 and A80 engines. All have the same displacement)
> Page 6: Oil temp. 120 - 220F and Oil press. 10-35
>
> Leo Gates
>
>
>
> Richard Navratil wrote:
>
> To all who responded for the manual.
> Photo shares came through with a working version of the manual which I see
got posted today. I edited out some of the pics to save download time. I am
still working on finishing performance, but I thought it would be good to throw
it out for comment and suggestions at this point.
> It it a Word document so it can be edited.
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/horzpool@goldengate.net03.27.2004/index.html
>
> Thanks
> Dick N.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: operation manual
Date: Mar 29, 2004
Thanks
Cy. That did the trick. And a special thanks to
Dick, for all of your hard work.
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 29, 2004
Subject: Tail sections building question
From all the tail section pictures I have seen and going through the archives
it doesn't look like many people build their elevators and rudders with the
'trailing edge' specified in the plans. Looks like the 'leading edge' profile
is used on the 3 outside edges and 'main bean' used where the hinges go. Looks
like an easier way to do it anyhow. Am I wrong here?
RickH
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: Tail sections building question
Date: Mar 29, 2004
I did mine per the plans.
If I were to do another I would make the side edges just as a rectangle (not
T shaped) than after gluing up would use 3/8 X 3/16 balsa pieces between the
gussets to make the T shape.
Skip
From all the tail section pictures I have seen and going through the
archives it doesn't look like many people build their elevators and rudders
with the 'trailing edge' specified in the plans. Looks like the 'leading
edge' profile is used on the 3 outside edges and 'main bean' used where the
hinges go. Looks like an easier way to do it anyhow. Am I wrong here?
RickH
Message
I did mine per the plans.
If I were to do another I would make the
side edges just as a rectangle (not T shaped) than after gluing up would use 3/8
X 3/16 balsa pieces between the gussets to make the T shape.
Skip
From all the tail section pictures I have seen and going through the
archives it doesn't look like many people build their elevators and rudders
with the 'trailing edge' specified in the plans. Looks like the 'leading edge'
profile is used on the 3 outside edges and 'main bean' used where the hinges
go. Looks like an easier way to do it anyhow. Am I wrong here?
RickH
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Tail sections building question
Date: Mar 29, 2004
Rick,
I did mine per plans. Usually the trailing edge would be assembled and glued without
the rounded taper shape for ease of handling. I finished mine then shaped
it with a small plane (no pun)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail sections building question
From all the tail section pictures I have seen and going through the archives
it doesn't look like many people build their elevators and rudders with the 'trailing
edge' specified in the plans. Looks like the 'leading edge' profile is
used on the 3 outside edges and 'main bean' used where the hinges go. Looks
like an easier way to do it anyhow. Am I wrong here?
RickH
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Picky questions
Date: Mar 29, 2004
From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
Kudos to Dick Navratil for the POH--you could have made some money on
it, you know!
After a long period of procrastination or analysis (depending on one's
perspective) I'm actually beginning to bend capstrips and build the wing
rib jig, and I hope to have the ribs complete and be working on the
tailfeathers by Brodhead. OK, so I'm shooting to have the plane flying
by the centennial in 2029. I did find the list archive really useful
for preparation.
I was originally going to rubber-cement the wing rib drawing to the jig
and work from there, so I copied it on vellum to save the good copy for
further reference. The Kopy Kop version turned out to be so off-scale
that it is unusable (except for giving me the curve for the bending
jig). So I wound up transferring the exact dimensions to the jig. But
as I was measuring off the contour points on the jig this weekend, and
in spite of the archive research, I found some pickable gnits. I'm
seeking some list wisdom here:
1) Are there upright braces inboard of the spars per the full scale
wing rib drawing, or not, per the Flying and Glider Manual, the
Pietenpol Manual, and the general plans?
2) The general plans and the full scale wing rib drawing show a
rear brace descending aft of the spar, but the F & G Manual and the P.
Manual show otherwise, with a comment in the P. Manual saying to do it
that way. General plans were drawn in 1934, F & G Manual is 1932, P.
Manual is post-60's because of Corvair stuff, no date on the full-scale
wing rib drawing (but Don's initials are on it, not his dad's). Which
way is right? My intuition is going with the brace descending aft of
the spar (better to handle compression from lift?), but I'm no
engineer.
The following I wouldn't mention to the list, except that now that I've
started I'll bring them up for any comments--since I'm just starting I
want to do things right, and it will give me a good gauge for how to
handle these things when the inevitable discrepancies pop up. Some
things really, really matter, like C.G. location, some don't, like
whether you use mahogany or birch plywood, and I'm just trying to get a
sense of it all.
3) F & G Manual points out error on a 6" measure on top of wing
which is supposed to be 6 1/8"; however, all drawings show 6". P.
Manual applies to Sky Scout wing but says that it's identical to Air
Camper. Hard to believe that this 1/8" really matters, especially where
it's located on the wing (well aft of leading edge)--or does it?
4) There's no height from the baseline to the bottom of the leading
edge on the first (1/2") increment aft of leading edge. I'm going to
ignore it, assuming that the cap strip will bend appropriately there.
Is that OK?
5) On F & G Manual and P. Manual, after seven consecutive 1"
increments aft of leading edge, there are three 11/2" increments; on the
plans, the first of these is 1 1/8 rather than 1 1/2. I did it the
plans way. Correct?
6) I am assuming that I can just measure and replicate the brace
dimensions from the full-scale drawing and that being super exact about
their location isn't that important (except for the ones adjacent to
spars). Correct?
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2004
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Picky questions
Mark
I am about 2 months ahead of you (just finished my ribs yesterday) and have had
all these same questions (and many more). I am an engineer and usually expect
fairly exact specifications before I build something (especially something that
I have never built before and can kill me). But that is something that you
will not get with a Pietenpol. But the good news is that is doesn't seem to matter
much. Builders are always commenting on how everyone seems to build it differently.
I assume the main reason for this is because of the ambiguities in
the plans and the differences in the different plan sets available (which is your
current concern).
Most sane people would question proceeding with such a project when plans are available
for other aircraft which are exact, unambiguous, some full size, etc.
And I would have moved on to a different project if it wasn't for the fact that
hundreds of these things have been built over the years and I have yet to hear
of an accident caused because of the Pietenpol design, even though their is
no one Pietenpol design since no two Piets are the same, (although at a distance
to the untrained eye they all look about the same). Hell somebody even made
a Piet biplane!
Concerning your rib jig, yes the full size rib plan is different than the rib spec
on the 32 plans (the spars are not even the correct distance apart). As several
on this group recommended throw the full-size plans in the trash and loft
the points from the 32 plans. Something else that worked well was to cover the
rib plan with a piece of clear plexiglass (I got a piece from a cheap Walmart
picture frame and cut it in half length-wise).
RickH
> Kudos to Dick Navratil for the POH--you could have made some money on
> it, you know!
>
> After a long period of procrastination or analysis (depending on one's
> perspective) I'm actually beginning to bend capstrips and build the wing
> rib jig, and I hope to have the ribs complete and be working on the
> tailfeathers by Brodhead. OK, so I'm shooting to have the plane flying
> by the centennial in 2029. I did find the list archive really useful
> for preparation.
>
> I was originally going to rubber-cement the wing rib drawing to the jig
> and work from there, so I copied it on vellum to save the good copy for
> further reference. The Kopy Kop version turned out to be so off-scale
> that it is unusable (except for giving me the curve for the bending
> jig). So I wound up transferring the exact dimensions to the jig. But
> as I was measuring off the contour points on the jig this weekend, and
> in spite of the archive research, I found some pickable
> gnits. I'm
> seeking some list wisdom here:
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: From www.eaa.org
Date: Mar 29, 2004
The article below has further information on progress on the Sport Pilot Rating.
Dick N.
http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/040325_sp.html
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: picy questions
One thing to watch is the direction of that last diagonal
just before the trailing edge, the realy long one. In the
Aircamper article, F+G #32 it goes from bottom at rear
spar upwards to the last upright. Bernard corrected this
in the Scout article in F+G #33, reversing it as he found
they were prone to breaking. Use the later version.
As for the discrepancy in the hieght of that 6" to 6 1/8"
station I simply faired the curve through that area.
Clif
PS, What do you call a pregnant stewardess?
Pilot error.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: RE:Birth or a Piet
Date: Mar 30, 2004
Received these off list, P. F. Beck is a Piet builder from Barnwell SC and a
volunteer at the wood shop at Sun & Fun. His Piet is Corvair powered.He sent
me some pictures that I will try to post to photo-share.
Skip
March 26, 2004
Gary and Skip,
Wanted to announce the birth of my new baby, NX747PF. Todd Clamp, local DAR
here in S. C. awarded it a Certificate of Airworthiness today. It's now an
official Pietenpol airplane. Maiden flight will be tomorrow if weather and
runway paving crew and asphalt trucks don't hinder me. Look forward to
hearing of your "birth announcements" soon.
March 29, 2004
I flew about 30 minutes "crow hopping" Sat. just to get the feel of the
controls, another 30 minutes actually flying yesterday and about 40 minutes
flying this afternoon with no problems. Everyone on ground says engine
sounds great. It's very quiet with my "ugly" muffler.
Compared my airspeed to a handheld GPS today and my airspeed indicator is
reading slow. At 2900rpm, GPS speed say's 80mph. That is not full throttle.
Had engine above 3000rpm yesterday, but did not have GPS then to check
speed.
If weather allows in the morning, will start to write down actual speeds at
various rpm's. Might drill another hole in static source to see if that
help's with indicator reading.
I'll have more flying info to share with you at Sun-n-fun.
P. F.
Message
Received these off list, P. F. Beck is a Piet builder
from Barnwell SC and a volunteer at the wood shop at Sun Fun. His Piet is
Corvair powered.He sent me some pictures that I will try to post to
photo-share.
Skip
March
26, 2004
Gary and Skip,
Wanted to announce the birth of my
new baby, NX747PF. Todd Clamp, local DAR here in S. C. awarded it a Certificate
of Airworthiness today. It's now an official Pietenpol airplane. Maiden
flight will be tomorrow if weather and runway paving crew and
asphalt trucks don't hinder me. Look forward to hearing of your "birth
announcements" soon.
March
29, 2004
Iflew about 30 minutes
"crow hopping"Sat. just to get the feel of the controls, another 30
minutes actually flying yesterday and about 40 minutes flying this
afternoon with no problems. Everyone on ground says engine sounds great. It's
very quiet with my "ugly" muffler.
Compared my airspeed to a
handheld GPS today and my airspeed indicatoris reading slow.At
2900rpm, GPS speed say's 80mph.That is not full throttle. Had engine above
3000rpm yesterday, but did not have GPS then to check speed.
If weather allows in the morning,
will startto write down actualspeeds at various rpm's. Might drill
another hole in static source to see if that help's with indicator
reading.
I'll have more flyinginfo
to share with you at Sun-n-fun.
P.
F.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Continental inter-cylinder baffles
Date: Mar 30, 2004
From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com>
I'd like to purchase a set of Continental (65,85 or 0-200) inter-cylinder baffles
and attach hardware. I'm hoping that a Pieter has obtained one of these small
Continentals from a pressure-cowled airplane and went with the Cub style eyebrows,
which wouldn't require them.
Okay - they're not for a Piet, but I'm building one of those also and this is a
low-and-slow design.
Thanks!
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Phil Beck's Piet
Skip-- Great news regarding Phil's Piet. Thank you for keeping us posted.
In reading Phil's words about his gps vs. his airspeed indicator, I hope he
realizes that gps does not show airspeed at all......only ground speed.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RE:Birth or a Piet
Date: Mar 30, 2004
MessageCongratulations to P.F. on the birth of his new "Baby".
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: Gadd, Skip
To: 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 7:22 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE:Birth or a Piet
Received these off list, P. F. Beck is a Piet builder from Barnwell SC and a
volunteer at the wood shop at Sun & Fun. His Piet is Corvair powered.He sent me
some pictures that I will try to post to photo-share.
Skip
March 26, 2004
Gary and Skip,
Wanted to announce the birth of my new baby, NX747PF. Todd Clamp, local DAR here
in S. C. awarded it a Certificate of Airworthiness today. It's now an official
Pietenpol airplane. Maiden flight will be tomorrow if weather and runway
paving crew and asphalt trucks don't hinder me. Look forward to hearing of
your "birth announcements" soon.
March 29, 2004
I flew about 30 minutes "crow hopping" Sat. just to get the feel of the controls,
another 30 minutes actually flying yesterday and about 40 minutes flying
this afternoon with no problems. Everyone on ground says engine sounds great.
It's very quiet with my "ugly" muffler.
Compared my airspeed to a handheld GPS today and my airspeed indicator is reading
slow. At 2900rpm, GPS speed say's 80mph. That is not full throttle. Had
engine above 3000rpm yesterday, but did not have GPS then to check speed.
If weather allows in the morning, will start to write down actual speeds at various
rpm's. Might drill another hole in static source to see if that help's
with indicator reading.
I'll have more flying info to share with you at Sun-n-fun.
P. F.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Juan Andreani" <andreani890(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: operation manual
Date: Mar 30, 2004
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
--- MIME Errors ---
A message with no text/plain section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using plaintext formatting.
NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the
message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus
WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be
informed of the potential problem with their system as soon
as possible.
--- MIME Errors ---
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2004
Subject: [ Skip Gadd ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Skip Gadd
Lists: Pietenpol-List
Subject: Corvair powered Pietenpol
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Skip.Gadd@ssa.gov.03.30.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Aircamper paint schemes - 3D renderings
Date: Mar 30, 2004
I've been working with a software development company designing 3D models
for a PC game. One of the models is an Aircamper. I've put alot of time
into the project and I figure the rest of the Piet community may as well
benefit from it.... So... I offer to any of you Aircamper builders out there
my services. I can supply anyone with 3D renderings from multiple angles a
fully painted Aircamper with the paint scheme of your choice. You either
supply me with a written description of what scheme you would like or you
can even pencil up a quick sketch and email it to me. I'll provide 10-15
different angles... you can see a couple examples here. It takes me several
hours to do this for each one so I have to charge a small fee but it's
pretty cheap.
http://imagedv.com/3D-Visualization/aircamper/aircamper.htm
email me for more info.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
djv(at)imagedv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Continental inter-cylinder baffles
Date: Mar 31, 2004
Make them. The patterns are in one of the Bingelis books.
chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental inter-cylinder baffles
>
> I'd like to purchase a set of Continental (65,85 or 0-200) inter-cylinder
baffles and attach hardware. I'm hoping that a Pieter has obtained one of
these small Continentals from a pressure-cowled airplane and went with the
Cub style eyebrows, which wouldn't require them.
>
> Okay - they're not for a Piet, but I'm building one of those also and this
is a low-and-slow design.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: A new Pietenpol in Florida !!!
Congratulations to Phil Beck on his first flight and great photos on
photoshare Skip G....thank you for posting them for us all.
I received a phone call last night from a very happy and very proud John
Ficklen in Florida. His Pietenpol flew for the first time yesterday
afternoon around 3:30 pm and after two landings John reported that the
plane had a cruise speed of 85 mph and flew very well on the maiden flight
with it's 85 hp Continental engine. John said his goal is to have the
plane on the flightline at Sun-N-Fun soon and he hopes to make it to the
Brodhead gathering this summer. Hopefully he and Ted B. will make the
trip up north to share their Air Campers with us all. Congratulations John !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Continental inter-cylinder baffles
Date: Mar 31, 2004
From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com>
chris bobka writes;
Make them. The patterns are in one of the Bingelis books.
------------------------------
Yea, yea - I know. You're absolutely right and I probably will make them. I was
just looking for ways to get this thing airborne this summer and thought this
detail might save some time while I finish covering and so on.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Continental inter-cylinder baffles
Date: Mar 31, 2004
And if you had a good lathe you wouldn't have to buy all those damn bolts!
Jim in Plano...feeling a bit silly but enjoying the heck out of the "New
Baby's flyin'" stories....very cool.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental inter-cylinder baffles
>
> chris bobka writes;
>
> Make them. The patterns are in one of the Bingelis books.
> ------------------------------
> Yea, yea - I know. You're absolutely right and I probably will make them.
I was just looking for ways to get this thing airborne this summer and
thought this detail might save some time while I finish covering and so on.
>
> Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Continental inter-cylinder baffles
Date: Mar 31, 2004
Bill,
I took mine off of the A65 (that came off of an Areonca) and if they are the
ones that I think you mean, they are simply a rectangle of aluminum bent to
follow the lower shape of the cyl.'s with a flat in the center (between
cyl.'s) with a hole to wire them up to a welding rod on top to take the
shape of the cyl tops... Just looked at mine that are in an old parts
bucket down in my aircraft factory. (well actually it's a 10x20ft.
cellar.)
You could really make them both in less than 1 hour.
Chris is right, if you have the pattern, make them.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental inter-cylinder baffles
>
> I'd like to purchase a set of Continental (65,85 or 0-200) inter-cylinder
baffles and attach hardware. I'm hoping that a Pieter has obtained one of
these small Continentals from a pressure-cowled airplane and went with the
Cub style eyebrows, which wouldn't require them.
>
> Okay - they're not for a Piet, but I'm building one of those also and this
is a low-and-slow design.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
<001001c41760$3f439730$2cc5fea9@home>
Subject: Re: Continental inter-cylinder baffles
Date: Mar 31, 2004
As Walt says, it is too easy to make them... Used ones will most likely be
damaged. You want to cool properly and want the sytem to work properly.
New ones made to the Bingelis drawings would enable this.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental inter-cylinder baffles
>
> Bill,
> I took mine off of the A65 (that came off of an Areonca) and if they are
the
> ones that I think you mean, they are simply a rectangle of aluminum bent
to
> follow the lower shape of the cyl.'s with a flat in the center (between
> cyl.'s) with a hole to wire them up to a welding rod on top to take the
> shape of the cyl tops... Just looked at mine that are in an old parts
> bucket down in my aircraft factory. (well actually it's a 10x20ft.
> cellar.)
> You could really make them both in less than 1 hour.
> Chris is right, if you have the pattern, make them.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:41 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental inter-cylinder baffles
>
>
>
> >
> > I'd like to purchase a set of Continental (65,85 or 0-200)
inter-cylinder
> baffles and attach hardware. I'm hoping that a Pieter has obtained one of
> these small Continentals from a pressure-cowled airplane and went with the
> Cub style eyebrows, which wouldn't require them.
> >
> > Okay - they're not for a Piet, but I'm building one of those also and
this
> is a low-and-slow design.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: inspection
Date: Mar 31, 2004
The FAA man told me to complete a search on any AD's for the Pietenpol or the contintal
engine before my inspection on Saturday. Does anybody know where I would
find this info? I assume it is somewhere linked to the FAA site but I havent
found it yet.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: New Piet in the air
Date: Mar 31, 2004
Pieters-
Yet another birth announcement........ John Ficklen's Piet took to the air for
the first time out of the Apalachicola airport yesterday (Monday). It was up for
an hour and explored high speed, low speed, stalls, climb angles and rates,
and other things that I don't remember. Sounds like another winner, and he is
going gang-busters to fly off the time so he can be at Sun-n-fun. His BIG PLAN
is to make it to B'head for the 75th.
Seems like we're going through a "baby boom" of Piets this year. Donny Emch up
in Northern Ohio should be in the air soon, too.................. You there, Donny?
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: inspection
Date: Mar 31, 2004
Cancel my last request for help finding AD's on FAA site . I found it.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2004
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: inspection
Dick;
Look on the following URL
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet
You won't find anything on Pietenpol airplanes, because Airworthiness Directives
are only issued against Type Certified products.
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2004
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Inspection 2
Your FAA man should be aware that there are no ADs on pietenpols. But to his credit,
he is only trying to follow the recipe for assurance of design safety.
There is perhaps more pertinent design safety info for homebuilts on the following
FAA URL containing service difficulty reports (SDRs). Click on the Query
link and under manufacturer, enter "AMTR" for amateur built aircraft. The search
will bring up many reports of service problems that have been reported to
FAA. I did a quick query for "Pietenpol" under the model heading and found one
item attached.
http://av-info.faa.gov/isdr/
Theres also a number of "what not to do's" in the NTSB accident investigation data.
Chuck Gantzer on the list provided a good breakdown for Piet accidents a
while back.
Terry L. Bowden
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: inspection
Date: Mar 31, 2004
Tell him to take a hike...... This is simply not required. You need a new inspector
or a good DAR.
This guy is not doing you any good at all.
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: inspection
The FAA man told me to complete a search on any AD's for the Pietenpol or the
contintal engine before my inspection on Saturday. Does anybody know where I
would find this info? I assume it is somewhere linked to the FAA site but I
havent found it yet.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
<001001c41760$3f439730$2cc5fea9@home>
Subject: Re: Continental inter-cylinder baffles
Date: Mar 31, 2004
Bill,
I have these old ones, and if you'd like to see them in your hand, I can
stomp them flat and mail them to you if you'd like. Two baffles and the
wires for the top, and the big cotter pin that secures the baffle, and the
safety wire that holds them all together. It really looks like these were
made by hand, but you could see the concept.
Let me know!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental inter-cylinder baffles
>
> Bill,
> I took mine off of the A65 (that came off of an Areonca) and if they are
the
> ones that I think you mean, they are simply a rectangle of aluminum bent
to
> follow the lower shape of the cyl.'s with a flat in the center (between
> cyl.'s) with a hole to wire them up to a welding rod on top to take the
> shape of the cyl tops... Just looked at mine that are in an old parts
> bucket down in my aircraft factory. (well actually it's a 10x20ft.
> cellar.)
> You could really make them both in less than 1 hour.
> Chris is right, if you have the pattern, make them.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:41 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental inter-cylinder baffles
>
>
>
> >
> > I'd like to purchase a set of Continental (65,85 or 0-200)
inter-cylinder
> baffles and attach hardware. I'm hoping that a Pieter has obtained one of
> these small Continentals from a pressure-cowled airplane and went with the
> Cub style eyebrows, which wouldn't require them.
> >
> > Okay - they're not for a Piet, but I'm building one of those also and
this
> is a low-and-slow design.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: inspection
Date: Mar 31, 2004
Dick,
I know this has been answered already, but it's amazing what you go thru with the
FAA. When I went for my repairmans cert. got an FAA guy (really nice guy
who said he normally did the "big iron" the 777's.) He had to go and get a sheet
to be able to go thru the criteria. He said that a builders log was required.
Even gave me examples of a procedure to follow to create the log. The Photo
log that I showed him only made him say "nice plane", but it wasn't enough.
It happened I was flying to Fl. for 4 days to visit my mother. So got the book
he suggested and started entering. In the airport, in the plane, in the airport
again, in the plane again, blah,blah.
A week later called the number again , and he said he'd been "reassigned" , and
to walk in and get the "duty guy". Another nice guy (really) and sat down with
all the paperwork.
He looked at all the stuff,,,,,glanced at the album and said "nice plane" , and
then said, "lets get to the paperwork!!!! there was the builders log over
there on the table,,and it was never brought up again. Now the builders log sits
at the bottom of my "stuff" doing nothing.
It's a funny world!!
A doctor (vet) friend of mine built a plane and was having it inspected by the
FAA, with a mutual friend, my mentor, standing by. My mentor relates this story
that the inspector looked at the oil tank on the A65, and said "why would you
use such a small gas tank"???? They just looked at each other and bit their
tongues.
They said nothing and the plane passed.
true story.
nuff said.
Guess there's a million stories out there. This is just another.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 4:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: inspection
The FAA man told me to complete a search on any AD's for the Pietenpol or the
contintal engine before my inspection on Saturday. Does anybody know where I
would find this info? I assume it is somewhere linked to the FAA site but I
havent found it yet.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: inspection
Date: Mar 31, 2004
Repeat after me... There aren't any AD for experimental aircraft. With that said
there are ADs on components like engines, magnetos and the like.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: inspection
The FAA man told me to complete a search on any AD's for the Pietenpol or the
contintal engine before my inspection on Saturday. Does anybody know where I
would find this info? I assume it is somewhere linked to the FAA site but I
havent found it yet.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 31, 2004
Subject: Re: Inspection 2
In a message dated 3/31/04 4:28:30 PM Central Standard Time, BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
writes:
<< Theres also a number of "what not to do's" in the NTSB accident
investigation data. Chuck Gantzer on the list provided a good breakdown for Piet
accidents a while back. >>
I still have them stored on my computer. I could e-mail it to anyone that is
interested...just e-mail me directly with your request. I'll print out a
copy to bring to Brodhead.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
still working some squawks...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Inspection
Date: Mar 31, 2004
Thanks alll for the comments on AD's.
I need to cover all bases here. I did a search for all major components, engine,
prop and and even did a search upner the word Pietenpol. I pulled up all AD's
and verified all complied with. Bases are now covered.
Cy, you propably know Joe Norris from EAA. He will be doing my inspection. He
sounds like a real nice guy, problem he will be bringing along his supervisior
from the FAA district office who will be observing him performing the inspection.
I spent some time going over the Piet tonight again, I now think I am ready.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Inspection
Date: Mar 31, 2004
Dick,
what about the weight and balance?
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Inspection
Thanks alll for the comments on AD's.
I need to cover all bases here. I did a search for all major components, engine,
prop and and even did a search upner the word Pietenpol. I pulled up all
AD's and verified all complied with. Bases are now covered.
Cy, you propably know Joe Norris from EAA. He will be doing my inspection.
He sounds like a real nice guy, problem he will be bringing along his supervisior
from the FAA district office who will be observing him performing the inspection.
I spent some time going over the Piet tonight again, I now think I am ready.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Knot2Shabby5TA6(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 01, 2004
Subject: Antique Aircraft Wire Wheels on Ebay
These look very cool. I was browsing Ebay and came across these... Item #
2470166819
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Inspection
Date: Apr 01, 2004
Done and inserted in my manual.
Also, I will be stopping at Mc Cormack lumber next Thur the 8th on my way to SNF
if you need anything.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Inspection
Dick,
what about the weight and balance?
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Inspection
Thanks alll for the comments on AD's.
I need to cover all bases here. I did a search for all major components, engine,
prop and and even did a search upner the word Pietenpol. I pulled up all
AD's and verified all complied with. Bases are now covered.
Cy, you propably know Joe Norris from EAA. He will be doing my inspection.
He sounds like a real nice guy, problem he will be bringing along his supervisior
from the FAA district office who will be observing him performing the inspection.
I spent some time going over the Piet tonight again, I now think I am ready.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Don Emch
Don's Piet passed it's FAA inspection just a few days ago and once he
figures out a carb flooding problem I think he'll be flying. Then again if
he's at a grass strip he'll be bogged down as we have had excessive amounts
of rain and snow melt here in Ohio.
The FAA guy friend of mine who signed off Don's plane told me that Don has
done a very nice job. Jack Phillips is going full steam ahead. There is
a possibility of having a whole new crop of Piets at Brodhead if everyone
can make it and the weather cooperates.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Sun n Fun
Date: Apr 01, 2004
Well...... Sun n Fun is quickly approaching ( 11 more days). All six of the Big
Piet builders are going. Is anyone planning a get together? Maybe for lunch?
Or maybe meet at a certain place at a certain time? Just wondering.
I have not printed off a forum list yet, so I won't suggest anything until I see
the days and times of the forums. It might be a good idea to meet just after
a Piet oriented forum at the pavilion at the front of the museum. Just a thought.
Barry Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: Sun n Fun
Date: Apr 01, 2004
Barry and all Piet listers,
Come by the Wood shop, there should some Piet guys working or just hanging
around there.
Skip
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Davis
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun
Well...... Sun n Fun is quickly approaching ( 11 more days). All six of the
Big Piet builders are going. Is anyone planning a get together? Maybe for
lunch? Or maybe meet at a certain place at a certain time? Just wondering.
I have not printed off a forum list yet, so I won't suggest anything until I
see the days and times of the forums. It might be a good idea to meet just
after a Piet oriented forum at the pavilion at the front of the museum. Just
a thought.
Barry Davis
Message
Barry
and all Piet listers,
Come
by the Wood shop, there should some Piet guys working or just hanging around
there.
Skip
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Davis
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n
Fun
Well...... Sun n Fun is quickly approaching ( 11
more days). All six of the Big Piet builders are going. Is anyone planning a
get together? Maybe for lunch? Or maybe meet at a certain place at a certain
time? Just wondering.
I have not printed off a forum list yet, so I
won't suggest anything until I see the days and times of the forums. It might
be a goodidea to meet just after a Piet oriented forum at the pavilion
at the front of the museum. Just a thought.
Barry Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Inspection
Date: Apr 01, 2004
Dick,
Tell Joe Norris Alex Sloan said hello.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Inspection
Thanks alll for the comments on AD's.
I need to cover all bases here. I did a search for all major components, engine,
prop and and even did a search upner the word Pietenpol. I pulled up all
AD's and verified all complied with. Bases are now covered.
Cy, you propably know Joe Norris from EAA. He will be doing my inspection.
He sounds like a real nice guy, problem he will be bringing along his supervisior
from the FAA district office who will be observing him performing the inspection.
I spent some time going over the Piet tonight again, I now think I am ready.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Piet operating manual
Date: Apr 02, 2004
Note to Dick Navratil, but since others have also downloaded and reviewed
his draft operating manual I thought I'd post my comments here:
1. There is reference to "magneto switch" and "ignition switch" in the
manual. If it's the same switch, you should probably make the wording
consistent throughout.
2. The section "Engine Failure During Flight" is obviously arranged to try
for an air restart, but if that's the case (windmilling prop with the
possibility of a restart) it doesn't say that and it seems to end without
telling you what to do if the restart is unsuccessful. You don't want to do
a forced landing with fuel on and mags hot. I know it's obvious what should
happen if the restart doesn't happen, but if you're gonna write the
manual...
3. Nice shot of the instrument panel and callouts for each item, but when I
saw "turn coordinator" and didn't see what I was expecting to see in your
panel, I thought you might want to change that to "slip-skid indicator" or
something. We all know that you use the ball for turn coordination, but
I'll bet 9 out of 10 people think of something other than a ball when they
hear "turn coordinator".
All of which is to say, you've done a good job with the manual and all I've
done is nitpick.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Tax headache? MSN Money provides relief with tax tips, tools, IRS forms and
more! http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/workshop/welcome.asp
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Piet operating manual
Date: Apr 02, 2004
Oscar
Again, this is exactly the type of input I reaaly appreciate. I will make
those corrections.
Thanks
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet operating manual
>
> Note to Dick Navratil, but since others have also downloaded and reviewed
> his draft operating manual I thought I'd post my comments here:
>
> 1. There is reference to "magneto switch" and "ignition switch" in the
> manual. If it's the same switch, you should probably make the wording
> consistent throughout.
>
> 2. The section "Engine Failure During Flight" is obviously arranged to
try
> for an air restart, but if that's the case (windmilling prop with the
> possibility of a restart) it doesn't say that and it seems to end without
> telling you what to do if the restart is unsuccessful. You don't want to
do
> a forced landing with fuel on and mags hot. I know it's obvious what
should
> happen if the restart doesn't happen, but if you're gonna write the
> manual...
>
> 3. Nice shot of the instrument panel and callouts for each item, but when
I
> saw "turn coordinator" and didn't see what I was expecting to see in your
> panel, I thought you might want to change that to "slip-skid indicator" or
> something. We all know that you use the ball for turn coordination, but
> I'll bet 9 out of 10 people think of something other than a ball when they
> hear "turn coordinator".
>
> All of which is to say, you've done a good job with the manual and all
I've
> done is nitpick.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Tax headache? MSN Money provides relief with tax tips, tools, IRS forms
and
> more! http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/workshop/welcome.asp
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 2004
Subject: Re: It's official
Congrats from someone who took a long road there and I appreciate your
milestone.
Corky, still in La
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 2004
Subject: Re: It's official
In a message dated 4/3/04 6:56:47 PM Central Standard Time,
horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:
<< After a very thorough going over by 2 inspectors today, I have my
airworthiness certificate.
It's reaaly a Pietenpol, finally.
Dick N. >>
Congratulations, Dick !!
Now, after you inspect 'er a few more times, and probably do a little more
tweeking here and there, a perfect flying day will come along, and everything
will be 100%. It's not a Real Airplane, until after she flys. Just make sure
all is good, including the weather, and off you go !! I'm feeling the
anticipation just thinking about it !! Who is going to do the first flight ?
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
From: TomTravis(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 04, 2004
Subject: Re: It's official
Congratulations!
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Stapelberg" <norshel(at)mweb.co.za>
Subject: Need a little help
Date: Apr 04, 2004
Pieters,
I am busy doing the rigging of the elevator and rudder, no where can I
find what the travel should be, need to know the elevator up and down
deflexion in degrees/ inches as well as for the rudder left/ right.
Waiting for the spare from AS&S then I have to cover the fuselage and
then assemble.
Thanks in advance
Norman Stapelberg
ZS-VJA (rebuilding)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Koucky" <wkoucky(at)chartermi.net>
Subject: Corvair parts FS
Date: Apr 04, 2004
I have many Corvair parts for sale, block, cam, crank, 4 heads
(cleaned), oil coolers, old pistons/ rods.110hp. Make offer, I live in
Michigan. All the parts are apart and unassembled. I had two complete
engines and additional heads. I competed one and this is the parts from
the other. I was building to Wynnes plans and I think all the parts
work with his 110 conversion. I can't guarantee the quality of these
parts because the first engines parts were the ones I used and I never
checked these parts but they all seem good. Pistons and rings are for
core replacement.
William Koucky
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: It's official
Way to go, Dick N. It CAN be done, despite the jaw flappers and
procrastinators out there. More building, less pondering.
Really happy for you man !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: Piet for sale
Date: Apr 05, 2004
Gar Williams has an A model Piet for sale located at Brodhead.
http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php
I believe this is the red and cream Piet that Gary Karner and Mehlen Smith
owned for several years, if so the price seems reasonable. This Piet has a
tail wheel but no breaks. Hate to see it leave Brodhead.
Skip
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: a glut of Piets & GN-1's for sale
Wow, are there a bunch of Piets for sale on Barnstormers. Bob Seibert's
in TX would be
my pick. New, nice, Cont. power and light !!! 592 lbs empty wt and only
$12,000. That
plane is a steal.
Mike C.
http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: correction on Bob Siebert's Piet price
Group--- Bob Siebert's Piet is not listed at $12,000 BUT $12,500. Thanks
to a sharp-eyed lister who caught that error.
Oh......and one thing Bob forgot to mention is that his Piet has air
conditioning:)
Mike C. in Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 06, 2004
Subject: Back in the Air !!
I worked the rest of the squawks off on Fri,Sat & Sunday. Sunday evening, a
little over an hour before sunset, I became re-united with my old friend.
After the mag drop, and run - up, we lined up on 16 (hard surface), eased in to
full power, some forward stick pressure, little back & forth just as the tail
was coming up, glance oil pressure, temp, airspeed shoots from 20 to 40 in a
couple of seconds, neutral pressure on the stick, then just a little bit of back
pressure, and we're airborne !! We haven't been in the air since Jan 15.
Without skipping a beat, the ol' Continental was thumping out a healthy 2000
rpm, with a conservative airspeed of 50 mph. Climb straight out departure to 300
ft agl, raise the right wingtip to check for traffic, drop the nose slightly
to pick up speed for a 30 degree bank right turn to crosswind. Oops...keep
that ball in the middle !! That thing was everywhere but in the middle for the
first few minutes !! Level the wings just long enough to see downwind was
clear, and roll right...ball stayed in the middle that time. It's like she just
needed a minute or two to remember how to stay in coordinated flight. Still
at full power, climbing through 500 agl, pull power to 1900 rpm, for 62 mph.
The tach reads 100 rpm low, and the ASI reads almost 10 mph low. Keep downwind
just a little over 1/4 mile from the runway. Oil temp is just over 120
degrees now, and pressure never leaves 35 psi. Abeam landing point on the turf
runway, at 600 agl, pull power to 1500 rpm, and the nose just knows to drop.
Maintain 60 mph through base, level wing to check runway condition and if any
bogies are on long final...all clear. Roll right to final, but keep the nose
pointed to the left, and add in some right aileron, pull power to 1000 rpm, and
slip 'er in on final, maintaining 60 mph indicated by pushing the nose down.
We like to keep a lot of altitude on final, just in case that trusty ol'
Continental decides to hiccup. Cross the numbers, and the slip comes out, and
pull
power to idle and she settles in to ground effect for just a second or two.
Wind noise is dramatically reduced, and controls are mushy but very effective.
Hold it off...Hold 'er off, aahh yessss, the old one small bounce three point
landing. Immediately add full power, dance on the rudder to keep 'er
straight, and almost immediately we're airborne again. Did some landings at a
local
grass strip, then 8 miles south to check out a grass fire, then buzz my
buddy's house a couple of times, then back to Benton for a couple of more landings.
Ah, yesss...Life Is Good !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Brodhead 2004
Date: Apr 06, 2004
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
How come I've heard so little about the event this year. Everyone knows
that it is the 75th Anniversary right? For the 70th we had a mass
fly-in and center stage parking for 20 or so of us. Is there something
going on or in the works and I've just missed it? Or do we need a
volunteer?
Steve E
Mains are back under the piet, prop blank is loosing weight....
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004
du>
Steve-- there is nothing going on besides words at this point.
Mike C.
>How come I ve heard so little about the event this year. Everyone knows
>that it is the 75th Anniversary right? For the 70th we had a mass fly-in
>and center stage parking for 20 or so of us. Is there something going on
>or in the works and I ve just missed it? Or do we need a volunteer?
>
>
>Steve E
>
>
>Mains are back under the piet, prop blank is loosing weight&.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gsrth(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 06, 2004
Subject: to the peit
I recently asked, (I was so bold)
Can I build a Peit, with wings that fold?
Of course you can't, I was told,
Wouldn't be a Peit,some did scold,
In voices harsh, in voices cold,
"Wings like that would break the mold."
"Go ahead, if you want to try,
But I doubt like hell if it'll fly.
And when your wings fold in the sky,
Remember Bernie, he was the guy
Who drew these plans, we that we all try
To copy, even though on the sly,"
"We might make just a little change
on one little part, in one little place,
And hope it won't ..................."
Sorry guys, you'll have to finish this up. I've decided
to build a spam can.
Garth Dawson
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2004
Subject: Spam can
From: rhartwig11(at)juno.com
Garth,
You have my condolences!
Study that metal, the rivets and screws,
Forsaking wood doesn't mean you lose,
One advantage to those new planes of aluminum,
Compared to a Piet most have more room-in-um.
But, OH! the sound of a rivet when you smack it,
Your next door friends will not like the racket.
Yes! There is nothing as quiet as curing glue,
Remember that when your neighbors sue.
Dick Hartwig
Waunakee, WI
rhartwig11(at)juno.com
From: Gsrth(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: to the peit
"We might make just a little change
on one little part, in one little place,
And hope it won't ..................."
Sorry guys, you'll have to finish this up. I've decided
to build a spam can.
Garth Dawson
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Spam can
Date: Apr 07, 2004
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Clever Garth,,,, very clever.
:)
Steve e
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rhartwig11(at)juno.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spam can
Garth,
You have my condolences!
Study that metal, the rivets and screws,
Forsaking wood doesn't mean you lose,
One advantage to those new planes of aluminum,
Compared to a Piet most have more room-in-um.
But, OH! the sound of a rivet when you smack it,
Your next door friends will not like the racket.
Yes! There is nothing as quiet as curing glue,
Remember that when your neighbors sue.
Dick Hartwig
Waunakee, WI
rhartwig11(at)juno.com
From: Gsrth(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: to the peit
"We might make just a little change
on one little part, in one little place,
And hope it won't ..................."
Sorry guys, you'll have to finish this up. I've decided
to build a spam can.
Garth Dawson
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Spam can
Date: Apr 07, 2004
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
I meant Dick. Sorry about that slic opps I mean slip.
Steve e
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rhartwig11(at)juno.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spam can
Garth,
You have my condolences!
Study that metal, the rivets and screws,
Forsaking wood doesn't mean you lose,
One advantage to those new planes of aluminum,
Compared to a Piet most have more room-in-um.
But, OH! the sound of a rivet when you smack it,
Your next door friends will not like the racket.
Yes! There is nothing as quiet as curing glue,
Remember that when your neighbors sue.
Dick Hartwig
Waunakee, WI
rhartwig11(at)juno.com
From: Gsrth(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: to the peit
"We might make just a little change
on one little part, in one little place,
And hope it won't ..................."
Sorry guys, you'll have to finish this up. I've decided
to build a spam can.
Garth Dawson
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Flop or not to flop?
Date: Apr 08, 2004
Hi Guys,
I am about to glue up the center section and was wondering as to what
performance/handling concerns are there over the permanent circular cut out
in the center section for easy pilot access, or the flop (temporary access
panel of the complete centre section from the aileron spar position back to
the trailing edge).
I think the circular center section cutout would be easier to build and one
less item on the take off check list.
Any comments?
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi,
Victoria, Australia.
http://www.cpc-world.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Flop or not to flop?
Date: Apr 07, 2004
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop?
============================
Peter,
I've heard both pro and con regarding this cutout. In one case, the pilot
forgot to latch the flop and took off. The only thing that happened was
that the flop rose up a couple of inches and then rode in that position with
no change in handling characteristics of the plane.
In another instance, a Piet with a cutout was modified by the builder by
putting a temporary foam insert into the cut out so as to compare flight
characteristics with and without it. There was no change except a slightly
higher rate of climb he thought------ but it was so slight that he really
wasn't sure!
I suppose that it really depends upon if you are using a Model A engine and
where you mount the radiator. I suspect the airflow is really disturbed
over the center section of the wing.
In my own case, I don't have a cut out or a flop and getting into the plane
is a real bear! However, once in, the shade is great on a hot day!
Hope this helps to in your decision.
Cordially,
John
==============================
> Hi Guys,
>
> I am about to glue up the center section and was wondering as to what
> performance/handling concerns are there over the permanent circular cut
out
> in the center section for easy pilot access, or the flop (temporary access
> panel of the complete centre section from the aileron spar position back
to
> the trailing edge).
>
> I think the circular center section cutout would be easier to build and
one
> less item on the take off check list.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> Wonthaggi,
> Victoria, Australia.
> http://www.cpc-world.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Flop or not to flop?
Date: Apr 07, 2004
my flop is hinged at the rear spar. It's a big flop but provides ALOT of
room to get into and out of the plane. It has two latches (actual AN
latches) that secure it.
lots of pics here
http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/01-26-04.htm
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Flop or not to flop?
Date: Apr 08, 2004
John,
Perhaps the easiest way is to do without either flop or cut out and just
keep fit getting in and out!
Thanks for the comments
Cheers
Peter.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Dilatush
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop?
-->
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop?
============================
Peter,
I've heard both pro and con regarding this cutout. In one case, the pilot
forgot to latch the flop and took off. The only thing that happened was
that the flop rose up a couple of inches and then rode in that position with
no change in handling characteristics of the plane.
In another instance, a Piet with a cutout was modified by the builder by
putting a temporary foam insert into the cut out so as to compare flight
characteristics with and without it. There was no change except a slightly
higher rate of climb he thought------ but it was so slight that he really
wasn't sure!
I suppose that it really depends upon if you are using a Model A engine and
where you mount the radiator. I suspect the airflow is really disturbed
over the center section of the wing.
In my own case, I don't have a cut out or a flop and getting into the plane
is a real bear! However, once in, the shade is great on a hot day!
Hope this helps to in your decision.
Cordially,
John
==============================
> Hi Guys,
>
> I am about to glue up the center section and was wondering as to what
> performance/handling concerns are there over the permanent circular
> cut
out
> in the center section for easy pilot access, or the flop (temporary
> access panel of the complete centre section from the aileron spar
> position back
to
> the trailing edge).
>
> I think the circular center section cutout would be easier to build
> and
one
> less item on the take off check list.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> Wonthaggi,
> Victoria, Australia.
> http://www.cpc-world.com
>
>
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 07, 2004
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004
In a message dated 4/6/04 10:11:49 AM Central Daylight Time, steve(at)byu.edu
writes:
<< How come I've heard so little about the event this year. Everyone knows
that it is the 75th Anniversary right? For the 70th we had a mass
fly-in and center stage parking for 20 or so of us. Is there something
going on or in the works and I've just missed it? Or do we need a
volunteer? >>
I heard the Hatz airplanes are also going to be there this year. Can anyone
confirm this ?
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Flop or not to flop?
Date: Apr 08, 2004
DJ,
How do the aileron control cables route on a GN-1? I would have to start the
flop at the alieron spar position as there is the control cable and pulley
between that and the spar.
Cheers
Peter.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop?
my flop is hinged at the rear spar. It's a big flop but provides ALOT of
room to get into and out of the plane. It has two latches (actual AN
latches) that secure it.
lots of pics here
http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/01-26-04.htm
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Flop or not to flop?
Date: Apr 08, 2004
ahhhhhh good point. The GN1 has the ail cables run behind the front spar.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop?
>
> DJ,
>
> How do the aileron control cables route on a GN-1? I would have to start
the
> flop at the alieron spar position as there is the control cable and pulley
> between that and the spar.
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 1:07 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop?
>
>
> my flop is hinged at the rear spar. It's a big flop but provides ALOT of
> room to get into and out of the plane. It has two latches (actual AN
> latches) that secure it.
>
> lots of pics here
>
> http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/01-26-04.htm
>
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2004
From: "Ken Chambers" <kchambers(at)winternals.com> (by way of Matt Dralle <nospam(at)matronics.com>)
Subject: FW: Pietenpol airfoil analysis
Pietenpolistas
As promised (threatened?) I've been looking around for folks knowledgeable
enough to shed a little light on the Pietenpol's FC-10 airfoil.
To that end, visit the Matronic's file share for a well-written and
well-considered article with computer analysis by Mike Shuck. He's
graciously spent his time and considerable expertise to create some helpful
figures and comparisons. See the end of his article for his qualifications
and more information.
Ken Chambers, once again gluing bits of wood onto the fuselage in Austin,
Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
<004201c41d16$83a1c6c0$d2a86d44@Desktop>
Subject: Re: Flop or not to flop?
Date: Apr 08, 2004
DJ,
Real nice job!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop?
>
> my flop is hinged at the rear spar. It's a big flop but provides ALOT of
> room to get into and out of the plane. It has two latches (actual AN
> latches) that secure it.
>
> lots of pics here
>
> http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/01-26-04.htm
>
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Flop or not to flop?
Date: Apr 08, 2004
Peter,
I had to move my wing back 3", and it's the only way I could get in. Also
the view overhead would be completely blocked without it. This I need due
to busy skydiving operations at our airport.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop?
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I am about to glue up the center section and was wondering as to what
> performance/handling concerns are there over the permanent circular cut
out
> in the center section for easy pilot access, or the flop (temporary access
> panel of the complete centre section from the aileron spar position back
to
> the trailing edge).
>
> I think the circular center section cutout would be easier to build and
one
> less item on the take off check list.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> Wonthaggi,
> Victoria, Australia.
> http://www.cpc-world.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: FW: Pietenpol airfoil analysis
Date: Apr 08, 2004
OUTSTANDING!! I'm printing this out and keeping it with my contruction log &
notes. Who is Mike Shuck?
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Chambers (by way of Matt Dralle <nospam(at)matronics.com>)
Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: Pietenpol airfoil analysis
Pietenpolistas
As promised (threatened?) I've been looking around for folks knowledgeable
enough to shed a little light on the Pietenpol's FC-10 airfoil.
To that end, visit the Matronic's file share for a well-written and
well-considered article with computer analysis by Mike Shuck. He's
graciously spent his time and considerable expertise to create some helpful
figures and comparisons. See the end of his article for his qualifications
and more information.
Ken Chambers, once again gluing bits of wood onto the fuselage in Austin,
Texas
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2004
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Subject: Tail feather hinge question
Would like anyones opinion on mounting elevator and rudder hinges. Just directly
against the 'Main Beam' or cut out a channel with a router and inset them? Couldn't
find much in the archives, am using Vi's aluminum hinges.
Thanks
RickH
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 08, 2004
Subject: Re: Tail feather hinge question
Rick,
I'll tell you how I did mine for Repiet: First I paired and numbered the
hinges for I D. Then with various sized files I fitted each pair also sized the
holes for 3/16 pins. THEN I located the hinge positions on each hinge beam. With
sharp chisels and drill bits I countersunk for each hinge half. Installed and
bolted hinges. All this was done BEFORE assembling the surface parts. It's
easier to use a drill press that way. When you finish your feathers it's all
ready to hinge and almost ready to fly.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 08, 2004
Subject: Re: Tail feather hinge question
Rick,
Forgot to mention: On the nut side of the beams fit and glue a 1/16 piece of
ply to resist the bolting compression.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Flop or not to flop?
Date: Apr 09, 2004
Thanks DJ,
that explains that little problem.
Cheers
Peter.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop?
ahhhhhh good point. The GN1 has the ail cables run behind the front spar.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop?
>
> DJ,
>
> How do the aileron control cables route on a GN-1? I would have to start
the
> flop at the alieron spar position as there is the control cable and pulley
> between that and the spar.
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 1:07 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop?
>
>
> my flop is hinged at the rear spar. It's a big flop but provides ALOT of
> room to get into and out of the plane. It has two latches (actual AN
> latches) that secure it.
>
> lots of pics here
>
> http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/01-26-04.htm
>
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2004
From: Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: tall pilots
DJ Vegh
I notice that you are 6' 4", the same as I am. I concluded that I just
could not fit in to a Piet if I left in the front seat.
So I am building it as single place. Maybe you are really agile and slim or
are you going with a single place as well.
I hope to be flying in about 2 months as I have picked up a helper with a
lot of homebuilt experience to assist me.
Les in Calgary Alberta Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: tall pilots
Date: Apr 08, 2004
well... I stretched my fuse and widened it. I pushed the rear seat back
about 2", moved the firewall forward 1.5" and moved the tail post back 1".
I also widened the fuse 2" and the rear cockpit and widened it 1" at the
firewall. This gives me ALOT of room. The fit is amazingly comfortable!
Makes sitting in a Super Cub feel like a sardine can..... which I can now
attest to as I have spent the last 4 days flying about 6 hours in a Super
Cub as I am working on my tailwheel endorsement.
My Aircamper is way more comfortable than that Cub. Remember... this is
experimental aviation and you can change whatever you like.... push pull
stretch squeeze... whatever.. just make sure it's safe and go for it!
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tall pilots
>
> DJ Vegh
> I notice that you are 6' 4", the same as I am. I concluded that I just
> could not fit in to a Piet if I left in the front seat.
> So I am building it as single place. Maybe you are really agile and slim
or
> are you going with a single place as well.
> I hope to be flying in about 2 months as I have picked up a helper with a
> lot of homebuilt experience to assist me.
> Les in Calgary Alberta Canada
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce __" <bruce___@hotmail.com>
Subject: Tail feather hinge question
Date: Apr 09, 2004
>Would like anyones opinion on mounting elevator and rudder hinges....
Rick,
Heres a second vote for cutting a channel and insetting the hinges. This
past winter I bought a set of hinges from Vi Kapler. I had seen differing
ways to mount the hinges on various web sites, so I asked Vi how Bernie did
it. He replied, Bernie Pietenpol chiseled out a pocket in the beam so that
the base of the hinge is set flush with the surface of the beam. No plywood
under the hinge base, but 1/16 ply is put under the nuts on the back side.
Bruce
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Piet cabane dimensions
Date: Apr 08, 2004
I do not have a set of Piet plans and have a question. What is the
dimension for the front and rear cabanes? I'm trying to figure how much
longer or shorter they are than GN-1 cabanes.
Thanks!
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2004
Subject: McCormick Lumber
From: rhartwig11(at)juno.com
I met Dick Navratil at McCormick Lumber in Madison, WI just after noon
today--helped him pick out four sticks of spruce for spars on the Piet
wing that will be built at Sun'N'Fun. Dick was wasting no time as he was
planning to get past Nashville before calling it a day. After picking,
loading a paying he was on the road.
Dick Hartwig
Waunakee, WI
rhartwig11(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 09, 2004
Subject: fuselage door
Hello, group,
As a relative newbe (sp?) to the group, I have been reading with great
interest all of the bits and pieces offered by various members. Thank you for
all of your contributions. Now, a question....
I have the drawings for Harry Price's door modification, and it looks
very complicated (and heavy). My wife will really appreciate the added
convenience of a door to enter the front cockpit of our Piet. Is there a simpler,
yet
reliably strong alternative?
I have just built my work table, and am about to begin construction of
the tail feathers, or as BH would say, the end-spinach. Have a grand week-end,
and thanx for your thoughts.
Don Cooley
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2004
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Piet building at Sun 'n Fun / was: McCormick Lumber
Pardon my ignorance, but what's this about a Piet wing to be built at Sun
'n Fun? I'll be working the metal shaping tent. Hopefully it isn't too far
to the woodworking tent from there.
Jim Ash
>
>I met Dick Navratil at McCormick Lumber in Madison, WI just after noon
>today--helped him pick out four sticks of spruce for spars on the Piet
>wing that will be built at Sun'N'Fun. Dick was wasting no time as he was
>planning to get past Nashville before calling it a day. After picking,
>loading a paying he was on the road.
>Dick Hartwig
>Waunakee, WI
>rhartwig11(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2004
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Piet plans at Sun 'n Fun ?
Speaking of, does anybody here know if I'll be able to pick up a set of
plans at Sun 'n Fun?
Jim Ash
>
>Pardon my ignorance, but what's this about a Piet wing to be built at Sun
>'n Fun? I'll be working the metal shaping tent. Hopefully it isn't too far
>to the woodworking tent from there.
>
>Jim Ash
>
>
>>
>>I met Dick Navratil at McCormick Lumber in Madison, WI just after noon
>>today--helped him pick out four sticks of spruce for spars on the Piet
>>wing that will be built at Sun'N'Fun. Dick was wasting no time as he was
>>planning to get past Nashville before calling it a day. After picking,
>>loading a paying he was on the road.
>>Dick Hartwig
>>Waunakee, WI
>>rhartwig11(at)juno.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Piet cabane dimensions
<005301c41dcd$49ccb470$d2a86d44@Desktop>
<001f01c41de3$77cd9540$d2a86d44@Desktop>
According to the F+G, front 21 1/4" on centers
and 20 1/4" rear. Ditto on the plan set. But don't
forget, some folks are going longer.
Clif
>
> I do not have a set of Piet plans and have a question. What is the
> dimension for the front and rear cabanes? I'm trying to figure how much
> longer or shorter they are than GN-1 cabanes.
>
> Thanks!
>
> DJ Vegh
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: Piet plans at Sun 'n Fun ?
Date: Apr 09, 2004
-----Original Message-----
>Speaking of, does anybody here know if I'll be able to pick up a set of
>plans at Sun 'n Fun?
>Jim Ash
Sometimes you see a set at the Flymarket.
>
>Pardon my ignorance, but what's this about a Piet wing to be built at
>Sun
>'n Fun? I'll be working the metal shaping tent. Hopefully it isn't too far
>to the woodworking tent from there.
>Jim Ash
Dick has a Tom Sawyer/Huck Finn thing going on his 2nd Piet. He brings
plans, wood, and some prep work to the wood shop at Sun & Fun and we do the
rest. 2002 his whitewashed fence was a fuselage, 2003 it was the tail
feathers.
Actually Dick does most of the work and puts in real long days, and provides
a real airplane project for the visitors to the wood shop to see.
Skip, leaving for S&F tomorrow morning.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Dallas" <bec176(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: FW: Pietenpol airfoil analysis
Date: Apr 09, 2004
DJ,
Mike is from Wichita and is an avid aviation enthusiast. He is not a
Piet builder, but he is a home built builder who has just finished flying
his test time off of his RV-6A. One of his favorite hobbys is the study of
wings. If I was to design my own plane, when it came to wing design or
wing usage, he would be the one that I would be heading to for help.
Jim Dallas
>From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FW: Pietenpol airfoil analysis
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:05:57 -0700
>
>OUTSTANDING!! I'm printing this out and keeping it with my contruction
>log & notes. Who is Mike Shuck?
>
>DJ
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Ken Chambers (by way of Matt Dralle <nospam(at)matronics.com>)
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 9:52 AM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: Pietenpol airfoil analysis
>
>
>Pietenpolistas
>
>As promised (threatened?) I've been looking around for folks knowledgeable
>enough to shed a little light on the Pietenpol's FC-10 airfoil.
>
>To that end, visit the Matronic's file share for a well-written and
>well-considered article with computer analysis by Mike Shuck. He's
>graciously spent his time and considerable expertise to create some helpful
>figures and comparisons. See the end of his article for his qualifications
>and more information.
>
>Ken Chambers, once again gluing bits of wood onto the fuselage in Austin,
>Texas
>
>
>This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
>Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
>information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
><http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN
Premium!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2004
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Cabanes for sale....
All this talk about cabanes reminded me that I have a set that I would like to
sell.....
They are streamlined 4130 tubing, 2.023X.857X.049. Don't have the overall length
but 1/4" dia hole to hole dimenstions are 25" on the shorter set of two and
26" on the longer (with sleeves welded in) set of two. These cabanes were previously
used but I'm doing wood and won't be using them so they are for sale...make
an offer.
Jim in Plano...EXCITED to be getting my garage back this weekend so I can do some
FUN STUFF!!!! woohoo!!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol airfoil analysis
Date: Apr 09, 2004
>visit the Matronic's file share for a well-written and
>well-considered article with computer analysis by Mike Shuck
Been there... done that... no joy. Where's the article?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Look at this!
Date: Apr 09, 2004
First AB-DAR Performs First Inspection
EAA senior aviation information specialist and volunteer amateur-built designated
airworthiness representative (AB-DAR) Joe Norris performed his first airworthiness
inspection on Saturday, April 3, at Crystal Airport (KMIC) in Minneapolis,
Minnesota. Norris was the first AB-DAR to become officially certificated
to perform inspections under the new FAA program developed in cooperation with
EAA. The airplane was a Pietenpol Aircamper built by Dick Navratil, Minneapolis.
Upon successful completion of the inspection, Navratil was issued an airworthiness
certificate for his newly completed airplane, N-2RN. Dave Smith, supervisor
from the MSP Manufacturing Inspection District Office (MIDO), observed
the inspection.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Dallas" <bec176(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol airfoil analysis
Date: Apr 09, 2004
Oscar,
Ken Chambers sent out an E-mail to the list that is was attached to.
If you didn't get it let me know and I will forward to you....about 3 meg
Jim Dallas
>From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol airfoil analysis
>Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 13:38:05 -0500
>
>
>
>>visit the Matronic's file share for a well-written and
>>well-considered article with computer analysis by Mike Shuck
>
>Been there... done that... no joy. Where's the article?
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol airfoil analysis
Date: Apr 09, 2004
here it is in .pdf format about 500K
www.imagedv.com/aircamper/pietenpol_fc10.pdf
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: James Dallas
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol airfoil analysis
Oscar,
Ken Chambers sent out an E-mail to the list that is was attached to.
If you didn't get it let me know and I will forward to you....about 3 meg
Jim Dallas
>From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol airfoil analysis
>Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 13:38:05 -0500
>
>
>
>>visit the Matronic's file share for a well-written and
>>well-considered article with computer analysis by Mike Shuck
>
>Been there... done that... no joy. Where's the article?
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>
>
=
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2004
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: SOLD - Cabanes for sale
The cabanes are sold.
I'm going to do a set of 4 laminated black walnut/hard maple cabanes and would
be glad to do some extra if anyone is interested. Mine will be approximately
1" X 1 3/4" with 2 layers of carbon fiber imbedded. I'll do the initial rough
contour as shown in the pics but more sanding/shaping can certainly be done if
wanted.
Should be plenty strong and all you have to do is drill the hole where you want
it.....
Jim in Plano
(I reduced the size of the attached pictures, hope it doesn't cause anyone any
download problems...)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Waytogopiet(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 09, 2004
Subject: Re: Sun N Fun
In a message dated 4/9/2004 7:29:45 AM Central Standard Time,
flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com writes:
Will anyone from the list be there on thurs?
Ed...I have just finalized my plans and will be working in the woodshop on
Dick Navratil's wings along with Bert Conoly. Mike Hattaway will also be there.
Look forward to seeing you there. Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <TWINBOOM(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Look at this!
Date: Apr 09, 2004
Congratulations Dick !!!!!!
Doug & Elizabeth Blackburn
www.inlandsloperebels.com
W W's Conversion Manual 3202, 5782
www.flycorvair.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: Pietenpol
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 12:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Look at this!
First AB-DAR Performs First Inspection
EAA senior aviation information specialist and volunteer amateur-built designated
airworthiness representative (AB-DAR) Joe Norris performed his first airworthiness
inspection on Saturday, April 3, at Crystal Airport (KMIC) in Minneapolis,
Minnesota. Norris was the first AB-DAR to become officially certificated
to perform inspections under the new FAA program developed in cooperation with
EAA. The airplane was a Pietenpol Aircamper built by Dick Navratil, Minneapolis.
Upon successful completion of the inspection, Navratil was issued an airworthiness
certificate for his newly completed airplane, N-2RN. Dave Smith, supervisor
from the MSP Manufacturing Inspection District Office (MIDO), observed
the inspection.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: SOLD - Cabanes for sale
Date: Apr 09, 2004
Jim,
If you embed a steel strap to catch the holes at each end, you would
significantly reduce the chance of tear out of the wood between the holes
and the ends.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: SOLD - Cabanes for sale
> The cabanes are sold.
>
> I'm going to do a set of 4 laminated black walnut/hard maple cabanes and
would be glad to do some extra if anyone is interested. Mine will be
approximately 1" X 1 3/4" with 2 layers of carbon fiber imbedded. I'll do
the initial rough contour as shown in the pics but more sanding/shaping can
certainly be done if wanted.
>
> Should be plenty strong and all you have to do is drill the hole where you
want it.....
>
> Jim in Plano
>
> (I reduced the size of the attached pictures, hope it doesn't cause anyone
any download problems...)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 09, 2004
Subject: Re: Sun N Fun
Forget about all the talk and critics and lay that finish on. You will not
only make Brodhead but will be waiting for it to happen. Just keep working and
don't worry about what these EXPERTS think.
Corky, an expert in La.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 10, 2004
Subject: Give me a Brake
Ah, yes...the good ol' days, when I didn't have brakes (last spring), and
things were much simpler. Now I have quite a few more things to check on
pre-flight, items that might fail (if it ain't there, it can't fail), and I have
to carry this extra 6 or 7 pounds around on each flight. I use the brakes for
maybe 30 or 40 seconds on each flight - mag drop / run - up, and a little
stab here and there to taxi...that's it. I never use them to slow down.
Therefore at first thought, it seems they are just not worth having, especially
after
having oporated my plane without brakes for about 30 hours. It handled very
well with the tail skid, and no brakes...as long as it was on the grass. Taxi
on the hard surface, and it was like a fish out of water...limited or no
response to rudder input, and a small breeze on the tail would have its way.
One of the squawks I had to take care of, was a leaking master cylinder,
so I had to remove all the stuff under the front seat, and while I was in
there, I cleaned, sanded, cleaned, sanded, cleaned and re-varnished the front pit.
On the plus side, the oporation of the heel pedals, and break control is
very good, and fairly comfortable.
In conclusion, if you're going to do any cross country flying, where hard
surface oporation is inevitable, brakes and a tailwheel is are required
equipment, but they sure are a pain.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
p.s. I have some really good digital pictures of my set up. If anyone wants
to see them, just e-mail me direct, and I'll e-mail you the pictures.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2004
From: Richard Carden <flywrite(at)erols.com>
Subject: Which wing struts?
Is there any conventionall wisdom (aka "been there, done that") about
wing struts used by certified aircraft which are suitable for the Piet?
Some model of a Piper? Cessna? T-craft? etc.
If so, I'd appreciate the details . . . ALL the details.
Dick Carden
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Which wing struts?
Date: Apr 10, 2004
Dick,
I picked up old , rear J3 Cub struts at a local airport. Most old hangers
have them in the rafters. Visually , they look to scale. And you lop off
about a foot from each end anyway, so you can inspect the interior. Mine
still were damp with preserving oil.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Carden" <flywrite(at)erols.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Which wing struts?
>
> Is there any conventionall wisdom (aka "been there, done that") about
> wing struts used by certified aircraft which are suitable for the Piet?
> Some model of a Piper? Cessna? T-craft? etc.
>
> If so, I'd appreciate the details . . . ALL the details.
>
> Dick Carden
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2004
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Give me a Brake
Hey, how about those pics??? I would love to see them.
And are you making it down on the BIG trip? Max and I are sure looking forward
to you being here. We'll both have a place for you to stay, etc.
Hey, I actually get to go out in my workshop today!!! WOOHOO!!! It's been several
months and I'm not liking it!
hope you get to do some flying this weekend....
later,
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Give me a Brake
Ah, yes...the good ol' days, when I didn't have brakes (last spring), and
things were much simpler. Now I have quite a few more things to check on
pre-flight, items that might fail (if it ain't there, it can't fail), and I have
to carry this extra 6 or 7 pounds around on each flight. I use the brakes for
maybe 30 or 40 seconds on each flight - mag drop / run - up, and a little
stab here and there to taxi...that's it. I never use them to slow down.
Therefore at first thought, it seems they are just not worth having, especially
after
having oporated my plane without brakes for about 30 hours. It handled very
well with the tail skid, and no brakes...as long as it was on the grass. Taxi
on the hard surface, and it was like a fish out of water...limited or no
response to rudder input, and a small breeze on the tail would have its way.
One of the squawks I had to take care of, was a leaking master cylinder,
so I had to remove all the stuff under the front seat, and while I was in
there, I cleaned, sanded, cleaned, sanded, cleaned and re-varnished the front pit.
On the plus side, the oporation of the heel pedals, and break control is
very good, and fairly comfortable.
In conclusion, if you're going to do any cross country flying, where hard
surface oporation is inevitable, brakes and a tailwheel is are required
equipment, but they sure are a pain.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
p.s. I have some really good digital pictures of my set up. If anyone wants
to see them, just e-mail me direct, and I'll e-mail you the pictures.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 10, 2004
Subject: Re: Give me a Brake
Group,
I just sent six pictures to Matronics Photo Share, but I've never done it
before, so we'll see if I did it right. I got quite a few requests, so I did it
this way. The pictures of the final assembly, as it is in the plane, is still
in my camara, and my camara is still in my plane...I knew I forgot something
when I left the airport Thursday !! I'll get some detailed dimensions the
next time I'm out there, and try the photo share again.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
all socked in Saturday
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 10, 2004
Subject: Re: FW: Pietenpol airfoil analysis
In a message dated 4/8/04 2:05:11 PM Central Daylight Time, djv(at)imagedv.com
writes:
<< OUTSTANDING!! I'm printing this out and keeping it with my contruction
log & notes. Who is Mike Shuck? >>
Mike is based at Benton Airport, and we do some hanger talk at least once a
week. He just completed his RV6A, and has been flying it a lot. He'll be at
Oshkosh this year. Every time he sends me the stuff on airfoils, via e-mail,
for some reason my computer doesn't accept the graphic stuff, and the info is
very limited. Probably the settings I have, but I don't know how to alter
them. I downloaded what Ken sent, but it took 19 minutes...it worked, but no
graphics. I finally got to read his article. I just hope he doesn't start a
trend to change the Pietenpol Airfoil. Mike is a great 'Airplane type guy', with
a real sense of humor, very interested in aerodynamics (he also did an in
depth analysis of the Tailwind airfoil), and has been there when I needed a hand.
He has a web site on Yahoo, but you have to sign up with Yahoo to access it.
The web address is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/airfoil/files/
For his day job, he is a Doctor.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
2 hr flight Thursday !!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2004
Subject: [ Ken Chambers ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Ken Chambers
Lists: Pietenpol-List
Subject: Pietenpol airfoil analysis
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/kchambers@winternals.com.04.10.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2004
From: "Kirk Huizenga" <Kirk.Huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org>
Subject: Spar/Strut fitting
During the rebuild of my Piet I have found a few of the holes in the fitting (that
wraps around the spar, mid wing, and connects to the wing strut) are slightly
elongated or mishaped. I am planning on replacing the fitting, adding a phenolic
bushing in the spar and getting new hardware -- my question is whether
the fittings must have the top piece welded that connects the two straps together
into one piece. It would be much easier to just have two seperate pieces,
one on each side of the spar and not connect them.
Thanks for any input
Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lynn & Doris Knoll" <dknoll(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Spar/Strut fitting
Date: Apr 10, 2004
Kirk,
You wanted some input so here goes.
I beveled the edges of the 1 inch top piece and the two side pieces (straps)
by tilting the table 45 degrees on a 1 inch belt sander. I cut 1 inch square
tubing from ACE hardware into four 7 inch pieces and drilled the 1/4 inch
holes for the bottom three holes and bolted the two pieces to the square
tube. I put a 1/4" bolt and nut in the hole next to the top and tightened it
just enough to hold the 1" top piece in place. It took a MIG welder less
than10 minutes to weld the four. This is really a easy procedure and I
would bet some other Piet builder even has a better procedure. Think about
how much more resistance to elongated holes exists when this fitting is one
piece as designed.
Lynn Knoll
Wichita
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Huizenga" <Kirk.Huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar/Strut fitting
>
> During the rebuild of my Piet I have found a few of the holes in the
fitting (that wraps around the spar, mid wing, and connects to the wing
strut) are slightly elongated or mishaped. I am planning on replacing the
fitting, adding a phenolic bushing in the spar and getting new hardware --
my question is whether the fittings must have the top piece welded that
connects the two straps together into one piece. It would be much easier to
just have two seperate pieces, one on each side of the spar and not connect
them.
>
> Thanks for any input
> Kirk
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: WPTCorp(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 10, 2004
Subject: Exhaust
Need some advice on what kind of exhaust to use? I have a 110hp corvair and
was going to use the same as Bernie Pietenpol did on his first one that come
out straight out on the sides or the one I seen at Brodhead Last original that
he ran out the bottom? Any help, I know it is a personal preference. But just
wanted to know if the would be a performance approvement. Thanks Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2004
From: Michael Shuck <michaelshuck(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: FW: Pietenpol airfoil analysis
Hi Chuck,
I'll put a hard copy of the file in your Pietenpol mailbox at the airport.
Mike
Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 4/8/04 2:05:11 PM Central Daylight Time, djv(at)imagedv.com
writes:
<< OUTSTANDING!! I'm printing this out and keeping it with my contruction
log & notes. Who is Mike Shuck? >>
Mike is based at Benton Airport, and we do some hanger talk at least once a
week. He just completed his RV6A, and has been flying it a lot. He'll be at
Oshkosh this year. Every time he sends me the stuff on airfoils, via e-mail,
for some reason my computer doesn't accept the graphic stuff, and the info is
very limited. Probably the settings I have, but I don't know how to alter
them. I downloaded what Ken sent, but it took 19 minutes...it worked, but no
graphics. I finally got to read his article. I just hope he doesn't start a
trend to change the Pietenpol Airfoil. Mike is a great 'Airplane type guy', with
a real sense of humor, very interested in aerodynamics (he also did an in
depth analysis of the Tailwind airfoil), and has been there when I needed a hand.
He has a web site on Yahoo, but you have to sign up with Yahoo to access it.
The web address is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/airfoil/files/
For his day job, he is a Doctor.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
2 hr flight Thursday !!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2004
From: Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: propeller for A65
I am looking for recommendations on the "best" propeller for my Continental
A65 in my Pietenpol. From past postings it would seem that a 72" dia. x 42"
pitch has been used by some. Any comments please.
Next question can someone suggest a good place to buy a nice wooden one. I
just don't have the time to carve one myself.
One more thing, has anyone tried to install a small alternator belt driven
off the front of a A65. It seems to me that life might be considerably
easier and safer if a person could install a transponder and a strobe.
Various of the airports around here even the one used for training requires
a transponder, and when you are flying slow a strobe might save your life,
(keep some idiot from running over you). I am only building mine as a
single place so I can tolerate a little more weight.
Thx
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: Gar Williams' Piet
Date: Apr 09, 2004
Poor old Gar doesn't seem to realize that in today's market nobody wants a Pietenpol
unless it has at least some GN-1 mods. An even bigger turn-off is it's model
"A" engine with the radiator that completely obstructs all forward vision.
I'll bet he doesn't even have wind tunnel data for the airfoil or an operator's
manual. Old time glue, solid spars, no center-section cut-out, probably built
strictly to-the-plans. Nobody with any level of sophistication at all would
even look twice at that thing.
Poor old Gar.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fmetcalfe" <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Gar Williams' Piet
Date: Apr 11, 2004
Oh man..... Let the fun begin
----- Original Message -----
From: LAWRENCE WILLIAMS
To: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 3:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gar Williams' Piet
Poor old Gar doesn't seem to realize that in today's market nobody wants a Pietenpol
unless it has at least some GN-1 mods. An even bigger turn-off is it's
model "A" engine with the radiator that completely obstructs all forward vision.
I'll bet he doesn't even have wind tunnel data for the airfoil or an operator's
manual. Old time glue, solid spars, no center-section cut-out, probably
built strictly to-the-plans. Nobody with any level of sophistication at all would
even look twice at that thing.
Poor old Gar.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Laurits Larsen" <pietlars(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: propeller for A65
Date: Apr 11, 2004
Hi,
Re your request for a prop maker.
Try Ed Sterba Aircraft Propellers, he has an ad in Sport Aviation. I got
mine from him and am satisfied with it and his price.
Lou Larsen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: propeller for A65
>
> I am looking for recommendations on the "best" propeller for my
Continental
> A65 in my Pietenpol. From past postings it would seem that a 72" dia. x
42"
> pitch has been used by some. Any comments please.
> Next question can someone suggest a good place to buy a nice wooden one. I
> just don't have the time to carve one myself.
> One more thing, has anyone tried to install a small alternator belt driven
> off the front of a A65. It seems to me that life might be considerably
> easier and safer if a person could install a transponder and a strobe.
> Various of the airports around here even the one used for training
requires
> a transponder, and when you are flying slow a strobe might save your life,
> (keep some idiot from running over you). I am only building mine as a
> single place so I can tolerate a little more weight.
> Thx
> Les
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 11, 2004
Subject: Re: propeller for A65
Try Hegy in Marfa, Tx. I'm pleased with the product as well as the $500
priced. 72X42 and only weighs 7 1/2 lbs.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 12, 2004
Subject: 4130 Question
Tried to order some 22 gauge (.030) 4130 to make my rudder/elevator/aileron
horns today and can't find any (checked AS, Wicks and Shapio). Thinest I can
find is .040. Has anyone tried making these horns out of this thicker material?
Can anyone suggest alternatives? Bernie didn't use 4130 in the early days did
he?
They also said that normalized 4130 is impossible to find, and most is all
anealed. Does this make a difference to us Piet builders?
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol airfoil analysis
Date: Apr 12, 2004
From: "Ken Chambers" <kchambers(at)winternals.com>
Oscar
Looks like there was some delay in getting the article on the
photoshare. My apologies.
I had a look a few minutes ago and it's there now.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol airfoil analysis
>visit the Matronic's file share for a well-written and
>well-considered article with computer analysis by Mike Shuck
Been there... done that... no joy. Where's the article?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 12, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: 4130 Question
The plans I have say the hinges etc have been replaced by cast
aluminum. I designed and built bolt-together 6061 T-6 aluminum pieces
that far exceed the min strength required, and take a couple of evenings
to make out of flat and angle stock. Haven't done up proper set of
drawings, but have plenty of digital photos if you'd like.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 13, 2004
Subject: Re: propeller for A65
If I needed a wooden propeller, I "wood" check with Tennessee Propellers.
Some time ago, I got an unbelievable deal from them on a custom made prop that
was not quite (but almost) as large as the one you're thinking about. Carl
Vought, Huntsville, AL
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2004
From: Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: aluminum parts
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 4130 Question
The plans I have say the hinges etc have been replaced by cast
aluminum. I designed and built bolt-together 6061 T-6 aluminum pieces
that far exceed the min strength required, and take a couple of evenings
to make out of flat and angle stock. Haven't done up proper set of
drawings, but have plenty of digital photos if you'd like.
Dave I would really like to se some pictures.
Thanks
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: propeller for A65 - TN Propellers
Date: Apr 13, 2004
mine is a Tennessee Prop. Unbelievable quality. They use 1/16" laminations
where others use 1/2" or 3/8" I ended up with a 48 lamination prop (3" thick
at the hub). This makes for a very strong and stiff prop. They also give you
the option of a clear Urethane leading edge.
They will make any diameter, pitch or rotation you want in about 2 weeks... many
sizes are in stock.
Total cost was about $500 shipped.
www.tn-prop.com
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 6:12 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: propeller for A65
If I needed a wooden propeller, I "wood" check with Tennessee Propellers. Some
time ago, I got an unbelievable deal from them on a custom made prop that was
not quite (but almost) as large as the one you're thinking about. Carl Vought,
Huntsville, AL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 14, 2004
Subject: Re: SOLD - Cabanes for sale
Aren't the Cabine struts in compression?...Carl Vought, Huntsville, AL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: slick mags
Date: Apr 14, 2004
Hi guys,
I need two Slick 4301 mags for my Model A. Anybody have any or know of a good
shop. I just about lost my dinner when I checked Aircraft Spruce's prices, $670
apiece if you don't have a core.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: slick mags
Date: Apr 14, 2004
Douwe,
Which way do you want the mags to turn?
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 7:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: slick mags
Hi guys,
I need two Slick 4301 mags for my Model A. Anybody have any or know of a good
shop. I just about lost my dinner when I checked Aircraft Spruce's prices,
$670 apiece if you don't have a core.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Subaru Engine Mount
For all those using or thinking of using a Subaru or Geo Metro Engine, I
just received my custom built mount from Dave Johnson of Reductions Inc,
in Dugald MB. He custom welded the mount, and the four corner brackets,
with all hardware, bushings etc, and beautifully powdercoated. He
charges $350.00 Cdn, and it's worth every penny. I have three of his
mounts, one for my other homebuilt, a Santa Anna, the Piet mount, and
one that came from a Zenair 601 (for sale), all are exceptionally done.
Check him out.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 15, 2004
Subject: Re: slick mags
While we're on the subject of mags, does anybody know of a source of the
Madel A timing gear cover casting as modified for side magneto drive? I've seen
only a few on Piets, more on cars. I know they exist, but may well be out of my
fiscal reach.....Carl Vought, Huntsville, AL
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Subaru Engine Mount
Should also mention he does redrives, and engine mods, has a video and
info books, you can reach him by email at davejohn100(at)hotmail.com.
dave rowe wrote:
>
>
> For all those using or thinking of using a Subaru or Geo Metro Engine, I
> just received my custom built mount from Dave Johnson of Reductions Inc,
> in Dugald MB. He custom welded the mount, and the four corner brackets,
> with all hardware, bushings etc, and beautifully powdercoated. He
> charges $350.00 Cdn, and it's worth every penny. I have three of his
> mounts, one for my other homebuilt, a Santa Anna, the Piet mount, and
> one that came from a Zenair 601 (for sale), all are exceptionally done.
> Check him out.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Ford Piet for sale in FL $6,800
search here and type in Pietenpol http://www.barnstormers.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2004
From: Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: mags for model A engine
Douwe
Where are you planing to drive these mags from, I assume the end of the crank.
Do you have a cylinder head that accepts dual ignition? tell me more!!
In the model A era Wico made a mag that drove through the top of the cylinder
head just as the original distributor did. They of course turn cam speed.
They turn
up on Ebay every now and then. You might consider one Slick off the end of
the crank
at $670.00 and one Wico at a lot less. Just a thought. After all the model
A only
needs one plug to develop full power unlike Continentals etc.
Just a thought.
Les
I need two Slick 4301 mags for my Model A. Anybody have any or know of a good
shop. I just about lost my dinner when I checked Aircraft Spruce's prices,
$670
apiece if you don't have a core.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: slick mags
Date: Apr 15, 2004
Carl,
I think this is one of those things that my Mentor has mastered/made over the years.
I'll call him.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slick mags
While we're on the subject of mags, does anybody know of a source of the Madel
A timing gear cover casting as modified for side magneto drive? I've seen only
a few on Piets, more on cars. I know they exist, but may well be out of my
fiscal reach.....Carl Vought, Huntsville, AL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 16, 2004
Subject: Re: slick mags
Thanks, Walt, for the reply. I would appreciate any help on this I can get,
including taking it from patterns through a local aluminum foundry and into my
shop for final machining. I would kinda sorta hate to have to make the
patterns. I've been there/done that and it's a real chore...Carl Vought
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
Subject: Re: Sport Pilot petition
Date: Apr 16, 2004
If you have time go to site http://www.eaa.org/govt/petition.asp
Its a petition from EAA to OMB to release the Sport Pilot rule. The petition is
not just for EAA members, so I hope everyone will sign it and please forward
to any of your pilot friends that might now (or later ) be concerned with Sport
Pilot.
Hope no one considers this O.T. since none of us knows when it may become our only
way to fly.
Hank
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Contact Info
Date: Apr 16, 2004
Del Magsam,
Please contact me off list.
Greg Cardinal
612 721-6235
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: Sun-N-Fun
Date: Apr 18, 2004
Seems like the cold and very windy weather kept a lot of folks from flying in to
Sun-N-Fun the first couple of days. I had to leave on Thursday a.m., so maybe
things improved for the weekend.
John Ficklen didn't get the time flown off his new Piet so he came in a motor home.
The only Piet to be on the grounds while I was there was Alan Wise's venerable
"Ol' Piet" with all the rustic touches that have been added over the years.
People still love to look at it and Alan (83 yrs. old) still loves to talk
to people about it and fly it to as many air shows and fly-ins as his wife will
allow.
I finished my condition inspection yesterday and am ready for the 2004 season.
I want to get to the SAA reunion in Urbana, Brodhead, OSH but ONLY if there is
a special tribute to Piets, MERFI, and a couple of local fly-ins. Of course the
promise of a pancake breakfast or other destinations that involve free/cheap
food can never be ignored. The plane looks to be in great shape in spite of
my efforts to test it's limits. For those of you who follow my exploits, I have
a good prop on the nose presently and another one in the duplicating machine
for a back-up. I seem to average one prop per annum! (Hope to break this streak
soon!!)
I hope to run into a lot of the listers at some of the fly-ins this season. It
will also be great to see some of the new Piets that are just coming on line.
Later-
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Sun-N-Fun
Date: Apr 18, 2004
Lawrence,
Thanks for the Lakeland news. Had thought more Pietenpols would be there.
What year did you start flying yours?
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: LAWRENCE WILLIAMS
To: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 8:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun-N-Fun
Seems like the cold and very windy weather kept a lot of folks from flying in
to Sun-N-Fun the first couple of days. I had to leave on Thursday a.m., so maybe
things improved for the weekend.
John Ficklen didn't get the time flown off his new Piet so he came in a motor
home. The only Piet to be on the grounds while I was there was Alan Wise's venerable
"Ol' Piet" with all the rustic touches that have been added over the years.
People still love to look at it and Alan (83 yrs. old) still loves to talk
to people about it and fly it to as many air shows and fly-ins as his wife
will allow.
I finished my condition inspection yesterday and am ready for the 2004 season.
I want to get to the SAA reunion in Urbana, Brodhead, OSH but ONLY if there
is a special tribute to Piets, MERFI, and a couple of local fly-ins. Of course
the promise of a pancake breakfast or other destinations that involve free/cheap
food can never be ignored. The plane looks to be in great shape in spite of
my efforts to test it's limits. For those of you who follow my exploits, I have
a good prop on the nose presently and another one in the duplicating machine
for a back-up. I seem to average one prop per annum! (Hope to break this streak
soon!!)
I hope to run into a lot of the listers at some of the fly-ins this season. It
will also be great to see some of the new Piets that are just coming on line.
Later-
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2004
Subject: What kind of wheels?
What kind of wheels?
I had welded up the pipe V's and the axles, which
are 1.5 inch 4130 according to plans. Went to Harley
Davidson motorcycles and looked at wheels and after
looking, found all the axles are 5/8's.
Correspondence says some people using motorcycle
wheels were knocking out the ball bearings to meet the
shaft size on the plans and installing bushings. But
all stock wheels having bearings are 5/8's axle size.
My axle according to plans is 1.5 inch.
After a lot of store hopping in Miami area, Northern
Tools seems to have the best selection of wheels and
the ones that fit the plans are 9" x 19" as the plans
say. But they look awfully big? These are Go Kart
wheels. Not sure; so I went to Sun & Fun on Saturday
to look at wheels on different airplanes. The tire
saleman was explaining about 600 x 6 tires which are
much smaller at one of the sales booths. He says most
people use those even though they are only rated for
300 lbs each. But I was concerned about the weight of
1200 lbs or so hitting the ground on two tires, if I
inadvertantly dropped it in, from 6 feet or so when
stalling out. The tire size of 9" wide and 19"
diameter seem the right size according to the plans,
and from what I can gather to carry the weight
according to the salesman of tires. But a look around
the show at two seater aircraft of similar weights,
show they are all using smaller wheels on their
planes. Usually about 6" wide. More like big lawn
mower wheels. Those motorcycle wheels look too narrow
at Sun & Fun and the tubes are squished from weight
even when planes are parked.
Have to make a decision next week, whether to buy a
6" wide tire wheel, or a 9" wide tire wheel from
Northern Tools? The hubs have a big hole and four
bolt holes and I took an axle tube of 1.5 inches and
guess a washer or flange of some kind welded onto
another tube to slide on the axle would work in those
hubs? I picked up the next size up, in ordinary steel
tubing for a $1, for 5 ft of tube for my axle hubs at
the local hardware store. I only need about six
inches each for each hub to weld up to flanges to bolt
onto the central hole and bolt holes of the wheel hub.
But it's a bit slack the two tubes in standard sizes.
So I'm trying to figure out how to stick a bushing in
there between the two pipes? Then heavy grease! No
bearings.
Appreciate any comments on choice of wheels and
particularly sizes and the making of the hubs axle
tube using a greased bushing.
Ray Auxillou, Miami Gardens, Florida.
your friends today! Download Messenger Now
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: What kind of wheels?
Date: Apr 18, 2004
9" wide seems a bit too wide. Attached is a photo (280k file size) of
19 X 3.5 motorcycle wheels. These look about right. In the old days
these would be labeled 26 X 3.5
Hubs are built to Pavliga / Henderson plans and use
a 1 1/2 inch axle.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "grandpa Ray" <belizedevtrust(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: What kind of wheels?
>
> What kind of wheels?
>
> I had welded up the pipe V's and the axles, which
> are 1.5 inch 4130 according to plans. Went to Harley
> Davidson motorcycles and looked at wheels and after
> looking, found all the axles are 5/8's.
> Correspondence says some people using motorcycle
> wheels were knocking out the ball bearings to meet the
> shaft size on the plans and installing bushings. But
> all stock wheels having bearings are 5/8's axle size.
> My axle according to plans is 1.5 inch.
> After a lot of store hopping in Miami area, Northern
> Tools seems to have the best selection of wheels and
> the ones that fit the plans are 9" x 19" as the plans
> say. But they look awfully big? These are Go Kart
> wheels. Not sure; so I went to Sun & Fun on Saturday
> to look at wheels on different airplanes. The tire
> saleman was explaining about 600 x 6 tires which are
> much smaller at one of the sales booths. He says most
> people use those even though they are only rated for
> 300 lbs each. But I was concerned about the weight of
> 1200 lbs or so hitting the ground on two tires, if I
> inadvertantly dropped it in, from 6 feet or so when
> stalling out. The tire size of 9" wide and 19"
> diameter seem the right size according to the plans,
> and from what I can gather to carry the weight
> according to the salesman of tires. But a look around
> the show at two seater aircraft of similar weights,
> show they are all using smaller wheels on their
> planes. Usually about 6" wide. More like big lawn
> mower wheels. Those motorcycle wheels look too narrow
> at Sun & Fun and the tubes are squished from weight
> even when planes are parked.
> Have to make a decision next week, whether to buy a
> 6" wide tire wheel, or a 9" wide tire wheel from
> Northern Tools? The hubs have a big hole and four
> bolt holes and I took an axle tube of 1.5 inches and
> guess a washer or flange of some kind welded onto
> another tube to slide on the axle would work in those
> hubs? I picked up the next size up, in ordinary steel
> tubing for a $1, for 5 ft of tube for my axle hubs at
> the local hardware store. I only need about six
> inches each for each hub to weld up to flanges to bolt
> onto the central hole and bolt holes of the wheel hub.
> But it's a bit slack the two tubes in standard sizes.
> So I'm trying to figure out how to stick a bushing in
> there between the two pipes? Then heavy grease! No
> bearings.
> Appreciate any comments on choice of wheels and
> particularly sizes and the making of the hubs axle
> tube using a greased bushing.
>
> Ray Auxillou, Miami Gardens, Florida.
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> your friends today! Download Messenger Now
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: What kind of wheels?
Date: Apr 18, 2004
A 6 x 6 4ply rated airplane tire is good on a ship up to a gross weight of
about 1800 lbs. A much heavier 6 ply rated 6 x 6 is good to about 3000 lbs.
gross weight. We are not talking wieght per axle but wieght of the ship.
The tire weight rating is printed right on the tire. The tire you are
proposing that is 9 inches wide is a tire for a big twin like a Twin Beech.
You will not be buying your tires from the airplane tire man unless you use
the 6 x 6 airplane wheels.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: What kind of wheels?
> 9" wide seems a bit too wide. Attached is a photo (280k file size) of
> 19 X 3.5 motorcycle wheels. These look about right. In the old days
> these would be labeled 26 X 3.5
> Hubs are built to Pavliga / Henderson plans and use
> a 1 1/2 inch axle.
>
> Greg Cardinal
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "grandpa Ray" <belizedevtrust(at)yahoo.co.uk>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 7:12 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: What kind of wheels?
>
>
> >
> > What kind of wheels?
> >
> > I had welded up the pipe V's and the axles, which
> > are 1.5 inch 4130 according to plans. Went to Harley
> > Davidson motorcycles and looked at wheels and after
> > looking, found all the axles are 5/8's.
> > Correspondence says some people using motorcycle
> > wheels were knocking out the ball bearings to meet the
> > shaft size on the plans and installing bushings. But
> > all stock wheels having bearings are 5/8's axle size.
> > My axle according to plans is 1.5 inch.
> > After a lot of store hopping in Miami area, Northern
> > Tools seems to have the best selection of wheels and
> > the ones that fit the plans are 9" x 19" as the plans
> > say. But they look awfully big? These are Go Kart
> > wheels. Not sure; so I went to Sun & Fun on Saturday
> > to look at wheels on different airplanes. The tire
> > saleman was explaining about 600 x 6 tires which are
> > much smaller at one of the sales booths. He says most
> > people use those even though they are only rated for
> > 300 lbs each. But I was concerned about the weight of
> > 1200 lbs or so hitting the ground on two tires, if I
> > inadvertantly dropped it in, from 6 feet or so when
> > stalling out. The tire size of 9" wide and 19"
> > diameter seem the right size according to the plans,
> > and from what I can gather to carry the weight
> > according to the salesman of tires. But a look around
> > the show at two seater aircraft of similar weights,
> > show they are all using smaller wheels on their
> > planes. Usually about 6" wide. More like big lawn
> > mower wheels. Those motorcycle wheels look too narrow
> > at Sun & Fun and the tubes are squished from weight
> > even when planes are parked.
> > Have to make a decision next week, whether to buy a
> > 6" wide tire wheel, or a 9" wide tire wheel from
> > Northern Tools? The hubs have a big hole and four
> > bolt holes and I took an axle tube of 1.5 inches and
> > guess a washer or flange of some kind welded onto
> > another tube to slide on the axle would work in those
> > hubs? I picked up the next size up, in ordinary steel
> > tubing for a $1, for 5 ft of tube for my axle hubs at
> > the local hardware store. I only need about six
> > inches each for each hub to weld up to flanges to bolt
> > onto the central hole and bolt holes of the wheel hub.
> > But it's a bit slack the two tubes in standard sizes.
> > So I'm trying to figure out how to stick a bushing in
> > there between the two pipes? Then heavy grease! No
> > bearings.
> > Appreciate any comments on choice of wheels and
> > particularly sizes and the making of the hubs axle
> > tube using a greased bushing.
> >
> > Ray Auxillou, Miami Gardens, Florida.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > your friends today! Download Messenger Now
> > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2004
Subject: Wheels and tire query
Thankyou for the responses on my wheels and tire
queries. The weight rating was extremely helpful. I
don't know why the Sun & Fun tire salesman gave me
wrong weights?
I'm planning on Northern Tools general hubs and
tires. They have a variety of assorted wheels and
tires already assembled. I guess size was my concern,
trying to figure it out as per the plans. Greg your
information was extremely helpful. I don't know of
any Henderson plans instructions? There was no
attachment to your email either that you mentioned?
I'm starting to get the feeling of metal work now,
kind of fun, if time consuming and laborious with only
hand hacksaw and hand drill.
I went to Sun & Fun last year and this year and it
is definitely disappointing that no Pietenpols are
there, other than the antique comedy one. I'm
guessing they must charge people to show their
airplanes for the parking or something? So why take
your plane if you have to pay? I pretty much skipped
all the planes out on the field for my one day visit
and just hit the booths, tents and sheds. My Finnish
buddy from Chapter 37 picked up a bunch of parts
including two sets of 4 point harnesses, of which I'm
envious. Darned if I know where he found those for
$20 a piece?
your friends today! Download Messenger Now
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2004
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Wheels and tire query
I have checked Northern Tool (I LOVE that place!) and they have nothing I would
personally consider suitable for homebuilt aircraft use. The 6" hubs built by
Ken Perkins (I can find his email/contact info if you're interested) expressly
for this purpose (and pretty darn close to the "Henderson plans") is the only
safe way to go. Certainly not the only option, but it's your butt or one of
a loved one that will be depending on the quality of those round things bearing
the load when you return to terra firma......
There are many "would this work?" parts out there that would maybe do ok (like
Home Depot turnbuckles and plywood) but is that really what you want to use?
But Fisherman, please don't take this as criticism. My intent is to share an excellent
source of homebuilt airplane parts with you (and the price is right!).
And you say the word and I'll help track down the contact info.
JM in Plano.....
-----Original Message-----
From: grandpa Ray <belizedevtrust(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wheels and tire query
Thankyou for the responses on my wheels and tire
queries. The weight rating was extremely helpful. I
don't know why the Sun & Fun tire salesman gave me
wrong weights?
I'm planning on Northern Tools general hubs and
tires. They have a variety of assorted wheels and
tires already assembled. I guess size was my concern,
trying to figure it out as per the plans. Greg your
information was extremely helpful. I don't know of
any Henderson plans instructions? There was no
attachment to your email either that you mentioned?
I'm starting to get the feeling of metal work now,
kind of fun, if time consuming and laborious with only
hand hacksaw and hand drill.
I went to Sun & Fun last year and this year and it
is definitely disappointing that no Pietenpols are
there, other than the antique comedy one. I'm
guessing they must charge people to show their
airplanes for the parking or something? So why take
your plane if you have to pay? I pretty much skipped
all the planes out on the field for my one day visit
and just hit the booths, tents and sheds. My Finnish
buddy from Chapter 37 picked up a bunch of parts
including two sets of 4 point harnesses, of which I'm
envious. Darned if I know where he found those for
$20 a piece?
your friends today! Download Messenger Now
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 19, 2004
Subject: Horizontal stab question
Just to make sure before I start glueing, does the 3/16" ply that goes on the
leading edge and center beam go on top and on the bottom of the stabilizer?
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rib layout question
Date: Apr 19, 2004
From: "Dan Loegering" <danl(at)odayequipment.com>
Good morning all,
A quick question on rib layout - I have a copy of the original "glider manual"
plans for the Air Camper and the Sky Scout - I am currently using these plans
to construct a 1/3 scale RC Piet (mainly to help convince the wife that I really
need to buy the "real" plans and build a full scale one). On the rib layout
drawing, are the dimensions shown taken from the chord line for both the upper
and lower outlines, or do you add the two dimensions to arrive at the upper
airfoil location? Example: At the first 5" station, the lower dimension is
5/8" and the upper is 6" - I know that the bottom dimension will give me the correct
undercamber, but should the top of the airfoil be at 6" from the chord,
or 6 5/8" from the chord...
Will be purchasing the "official" plans for the Air Camper shortly - and hope to
build the full size rib jig soon.
Dan Loegering
Fargo, ND
Current Cardinal flyer - soon to be Piet builder
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2004
Subject: Re: Horizontal stab question
I'm not sure if I read your problem right? But you
do put the plywood gussets on top, but if you use Poly
Fiber like I did, you have to cut strips of wood to go
around the stabilizer to fill in the gaps between
plywood gussets, as Poly Fiber dacron heat shrink
covering, needs a constant perimeter level piece of
wood to glue to, so when you shrink it, it shrinks
evenly. If you have a gap on the perimeter your
dacron will sag in the gap without a surface to glue
to and shrink distorted. I learned the hard way!
Ray
--- At7000ft(at)aol.com wrote: > Just to make sure
before I start glueing, does the
> 3/16" ply that goes on the
> leading edge and center beam go on top and on the
> bottom of the stabilizer?
>
> Thanks
>
your friends today! Download Messenger Now
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Signing off for a while
Date: Apr 19, 2004
I'll be unsubscribing from the list for a while, work is picking up and I
just don't have the willpower to not read the digest every morning. After
reading, I'm then left daydreaming the rest of the morning. This list is a
wonderful distraction.
In the event that anyone on the list would like to contact me, I will be
available by email.
Sincerely,
Robert Haines
Du Quoin, Illinois
http://roberthaines.us
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Date: Apr 19, 2004
Fellow Builders, I have a question.
I am building the new extended fuselage. A dimension on it and the original
varies 7/8" This is the one from the tail post to where the stringers begain.
Can any one tell me what this added 7/8" will do for or against me? The 18"
given on the original plans agree with the diminsion for the horizontal stab.
Should I increas this dimension on the stab to agree with the 18 7/8" on the
extended fuselage?
Thanks in advance.
Alex Sloan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: aluminum parts
Date: Apr 20, 2004
I would like to see the pictures. You could send them off-group at bed(at)mindspring.com
Thanks Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Schubert
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 10:35 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: aluminum parts
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 4130 Question
The plans I have say the hinges etc have been replaced by cast
aluminum. I designed and built bolt-together 6061 T-6 aluminum pieces
that far exceed the min strength required, and take a couple of evenings
to make out of flat and angle stock. Haven't done up proper set of
drawings, but have plenty of digital photos if you'd like.
Dave I would really like to se some pictures.
Thanks
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Prange Larry J PSNS <prangel(at)psns.navy.mil>
Subject: Model A Engine Ignition
Date: Apr 20, 2004
Dear 'A' Ford Engine Gurus,
On my ('31) Ford I am currently using a single magneto per The Plans.
However, I would like to add a second ignition source (magneto or battery)
and wire both systems to one set of plugs. I have the engine's (former)
starter location taken up by an oil filter, so that type of conversion is
out. I guess that I will be adding something in the original distributor
hole or . . . . ? Ideas Please! I am looking for some sage advice about
what would be some good equipment choices and maybe even sources for same.
Are there any known problems with using two ignition systems with one set of
plugs?
Thanks,
Larry Prange
NX1929A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: SNF
Date: Apr 20, 2004
I made it back to St. Paul late last night with my SNF built wings. Thanks to
all who helped put them together.
Now it's time to get out and see if the other Piet really will fly.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: aluminum parts
<006901c426f5$4ece4340$1b02a8c0@WorkGroup>
Roger that, things are pretty busy at the moment, but I will get them
out by the end of the week. Thanks for the interest!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2004
From: Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: model a ignition
Larry
Here is my take on it.
1.The problem with trying to fire one plug with two sources is that the
odds of ever
getting both systems to fire at the EXACT same time is more or less impossible,
especially for all four plugs. If they don't fire at the same time the high
voltage
will follow back down the none energized plug wire instead of firing the plug.
2. The other thing to remember is that most likely a misfire will be caused
by a fouled plug which this will do nothing for.
3. I here there are twin plug heads available for model A's.
4. I don't understand your comment about the "former starter hole" being
taken up by a oil filter. I was sure that the starter mounted to the bell
housing
adapter that bolted to the block which you certainly don't want or need on a
airplane.
Les
Dear 'A' Ford Engine Gurus,
On my ('31) Ford I am currently using a single magneto per The Plans.
However, I would like to add a second ignition source (magneto or battery)
and wire both systems to one set of plugs. I have the engine's (former)
starter location taken up by an oil filter, so that type of conversion is
out. I guess that I will be adding something in the original distributor
hole or . . . . ? Ideas Please! I am looking for some sage advice about
what would be some good equipment choices and maybe even sources for same.
Are there any known problems with using two ignition systems with one set of
plugs?
Thanks,
Larry Prange
NX1929A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 21, 2004
Subject: Re: model a ignition
Would you consider springing for a dual ignition head? I believe that if
you'll visit [www.secretsofspeed.com] you will find them....Carl
Vought/Huntsville, AL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 21, 2004
Subject: Re: Horizontal stab question
Interesting, of all the tail feather pictures I have seen on the net none of
them have had wood strips glued between all the gussets. Has anyone else had
to do this?
What I am trying to confirm is if the 2 8" x 1" x 3/16" plywood pieces glued
to the center of the horizontal stab go on both the bottom and the top.
I'm not sure if I read your problem right? But you
do put the plywood gussets on top, but if you use Poly
Fiber like I did, you have to cut strips of wood to go
around the stabilizer to fill in the gaps between
plywood gussets, as Poly Fiber dacron heat shrink
covering, needs a constant perimeter level piece of
wood to glue to, so when you shrink it, it shrinks
evenly. If you have a gap on the perimeter your
dacron will sag in the gap without a surface to glue
to and shrink distorted. I learned the hard way!
Ray
> Just to make sure before I start glueing, does the
> 3/16" ply that goes on the
> leading edge and center beam go on top and on the
> bottom of the horizontal stabilizer?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Horizontal stab question
Date: Apr 22, 2004
I filled the spaces between the gussets with spruce and sanded to shape.
Peter.
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
At7000ft(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab question
Interesting, of all the tail feather pictures I have seen on the net none of
them have had wood strips glued between all the gussets. Has anyone else had
to do this?
What I am trying to confirm is if the 2 8" x 1" x 3/16" plywood pieces
glued to the center of the horizontal stab go on both the bottom and the
top.
I'm not sure if I read your problem right? But you
do put the plywood gussets on top, but if you use Poly
Fiber like I did, you have to cut strips of wood to go
around the stabilizer to fill in the gaps between
plywood gussets, as Poly Fiber dacron heat shrink
covering, needs a constant perimeter level piece of
wood to glue to, so when you shrink it, it shrinks
evenly. If you have a gap on the perimeter your
dacron will sag in the gap without a surface to glue
to and shrink distorted. I learned the hard way!
Ray
> Just to make sure before I start glueing, does the
> 3/16" ply that goes on the
> leading edge and center beam go on top and on the
> bottom of the horizontal stabilizer?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Horizontal stab question
Date: Apr 22, 2004
Yes ..they go top and bottom...the top one on the center beam supports the
verticle stab. even with the fabric and the bottom one supports the
horizontal stab on the longerons which gives you the zero degree incidence
of the stabilizer. on the leading edge they support the screws which hold it
down. If you don't do routed out end pieces for the horizontal stab then you
need to add the strips in between the gussets to bring the fabric up even
with the gussets. That's the way I did mine. I found it easier than trying
to make them in one piece.
>From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab question
>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:42:23 EDT
>
>Interesting, of all the tail feather pictures I have seen on the net none
>of
>them have had wood strips glued between all the gussets. Has anyone else
>had
>to do this?
>
>What I am trying to confirm is if the 2 8" x 1" x 3/16" plywood pieces
>glued
>to the center of the horizontal stab go on both the bottom and the top.
>
>I'm not sure if I read your problem right? But you
>do put the plywood gussets on top, but if you use Poly
>Fiber like I did, you have to cut strips of wood to go
>around the stabilizer to fill in the gaps between
>plywood gussets, as Poly Fiber dacron heat shrink
>covering, needs a constant perimeter level piece of
>wood to glue to, so when you shrink it, it shrinks
>evenly. If you have a gap on the perimeter your
>dacron will sag in the gap without a surface to glue
>to and shrink distorted. I learned the hard way!
>Ray
>
>
> > Just to make sure before I start glueing, does the
> > 3/16" ply that goes on the
> > leading edge and center beam go on top and on the
> > bottom of the horizontal stabilizer?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 22, 2004
Subject: Re: Horizontal stab question
Thanks for the info Ed, which end pieces are you refering to here?
Rick H
If you don't do routed out end pieces for the horizontal stab then you
need to add the strips in between the gussets to bring the fabric up even
with the gussets. That's the way I did mine. I found it easier than trying
to make them in one piece.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Horizontal stab question
Date: Apr 22, 2004
the outer end pieces for the horizontal stabilizer and the elevators are
the ones I'm refering to.
The plans show cross sections for the leading edge, center beam and
trailing edge then after I
scratched my head for a few days I figured out that the same cross
sections are used for the elevators only the leading edge is now the
trailing edge. But there are no details for the end pieces which taper from
the main beam to the leading / trailing edges so your kind of on your own
there.So rather than try to taper them and route them in one piece which I
would have no problem with now but back then it seemed overwhelming. So I
tapered a piece of spruce from the small inner thickness of each, installed
my gussets and then filled in between the gussets with 1/8" spruce so
everything is the same thickness and being laminated they are at least as
strong as one piece. Hope you can follow that. Ed
>From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab question
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:36:53 EDT
>
>Thanks for the info Ed, which end pieces are you refering to here?
>
>Rick H
>If you don't do routed out end pieces for the horizontal stab then you
>need to add the strips in between the gussets to bring the fabric up even
>with the gussets. That's the way I did mine. I found it easier than trying
>to make them in one piece.
Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN
Premium!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2004
From: Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: continental engines
Hi
Can some one explain to me the differences internally between
the 65, 75 and 85 continental engines. As near as I can see they
all have the same bore and stroke and are just reved up more.
I think I read once that the 75 had oil holes drilled in the rods
to squirt oil on the opposing piston. I see there are various carburators
listed for these engines but I have no specifications for them.
Why do I want to know? Well I have a A65 in nice shape, at
least that is what the tag on the crankcase says, but when I ordered
the prop and said I had a crank with the integral flange the prop
maker said he had never heard of a 65 having the integral flanged
crank. I also see I have oil squirt holes in the connecting rods.
Help????
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2004
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: continental engines
Attached is a good article on the subject. I have found it to be closely accurate.
Be sure and pay close attention to the differences between the A series
and the C series. The C series has a completely different bore and stroke. The
A75 and the A80 engines have to turn high RPM to make their horsepower. The
C75 and C85 turn quite a bit slower. The Type certificate data sheets also
contain the details.
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2004
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: continental engines
OH...and about the flange...
Even though your prop man had never heard of it, A65s can have either a tapered
or flanged cranckshaft...per TCDS.
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Prange Larry J PSNS <prangel(at)psns.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Model A Ignition
Date: Apr 22, 2004
Hey Les et al,
Thanks for your thoughts. I'm under the impression that William Wayne's
Corvair engine conversion uses two ignition system wired to a single set of
plugs successfully. Does he use some kind of high-voltage isolation diodes
or something to prevent the two systems from interfering with each other?
Or maybe the two ignition systems don't care about each other. Would a
magneto and a conventional battery system be okay to use together in this
configuration? Maybe some of you Corvair guys could weigh in on this
please.
About the 'fouled plug'. I'll just have to take my chances with that. I am
more concerned about a catastrophic failure of a single magneto system than
about loosing one plug out of four. I am hoping that a prudent maintenance
schedule will fend off the 'fouled plug' scenario.
You are correct about my 'former starter position' statement. My error.
(The 'ol brain just ain't what it used to be.) I meant to say that I have
seen magneto adapters/mounts that position the magneto under the exhaust
manifold, next to the aft cylinder on the port side of the engine (as the
engine sits in a Piet). I have an after-market oil filter kit mounted
there. This prevents me from putting a magneto in that area. So, I was
asking if there is another way to mount a second ignition system other than
putting it there or putting it in the distributor hole where it is exposed
to the prop blast?
Larry
NX1929A
---
From: Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Larry
Here is my take on it.
1.The problem with trying to fire one plug with two sources is that the
odds of ever
getting both systems to fire at the EXACT same time is more or less
impossible,
especially for all four plugs. If they don't fire at the same time the high
voltage
will follow back down the none energized plug wire instead of firing the
plug.
2. The other thing to remember is that most likely a misfire will be caused
by a fouled plug which this will do nothing for.
3. I here there are twin plug heads available for model A's.
4. I don't understand your comment about the "former starter hole" being
taken up by a oil filter. I was sure that the starter mounted to the bell
housing
adapter that bolted to the block which you certainly don't want or need on a
airplane.
Les
--------------------------------------------
Dear 'A' Ford Engine Gurus,
On my ('31) Ford I am currently using a single magneto per The Plans.
However, I would like to add a second ignition source (magneto or battery)
and wire both systems to one set of plugs. I have the engine's (former)
starter location taken up by an oil filter, so that type of conversion is
out. I guess that I will be adding something in the original distributor
hole or . . . . ? Ideas Please! I am looking for some sage advice about
what would be some good equipment choices and maybe even sources for same.
Are there any known problems with using two ignition systems with one set of
plugs?
Thanks,
Larry Prange
NX1929A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Model A Ignition
Date: Apr 22, 2004
My Corvair engine has the dual points/coil setup like WW suggests. I use an MSD
Coil Joiner. 2 coils plug into it and it has one output which goes to the
distributor
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Prange Larry J PSNS
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Model A Ignition
Hey Les et al,
Thanks for your thoughts. I'm under the impression that William Wayne's
Corvair engine conversion uses two ignition system wired to a single set of
plugs successfully. Does he use some kind of high-voltage isolation diodes
or something to prevent the two systems from interfering with each other?
Or maybe the two ignition systems don't care about each other. Would a
magneto and a conventional battery system be okay to use together in this
configuration? Maybe some of you Corvair guys could weigh in on this
please.
About the 'fouled plug'. I'll just have to take my chances with that. I am
more concerned about a catastrophic failure of a single magneto system than
about loosing one plug out of four. I am hoping that a prudent maintenance
schedule will fend off the 'fouled plug' scenario.
You are correct about my 'former starter position' statement. My error.
(The 'ol brain just ain't what it used to be.) I meant to say that I have
seen magneto adapters/mounts that position the magneto under the exhaust
manifold, next to the aft cylinder on the port side of the engine (as the
engine sits in a Piet). I have an after-market oil filter kit mounted
there. This prevents me from putting a magneto in that area. So, I was
asking if there is another way to mount a second ignition system other than
putting it there or putting it in the distributor hole where it is exposed
to the prop blast?
Larry
NX1929A
---
From: Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Larry
Here is my take on it.
1.The problem with trying to fire one plug with two sources is that the
odds of ever
getting both systems to fire at the EXACT same time is more or less
impossible,
especially for all four plugs. If they don't fire at the same time the high
voltage
will follow back down the none energized plug wire instead of firing the
plug.
2. The other thing to remember is that most likely a misfire will be caused
by a fouled plug which this will do nothing for.
3. I here there are twin plug heads available for model A's.
4. I don't understand your comment about the "former starter hole" being
taken up by a oil filter. I was sure that the starter mounted to the bell
housing
adapter that bolted to the block which you certainly don't want or need on a
airplane.
Les
--------------------------------------------
Dear 'A' Ford Engine Gurus,
On my ('31) Ford I am currently using a single magneto per The Plans.
However, I would like to add a second ignition source (magneto or battery)
and wire both systems to one set of plugs. I have the engine's (former)
starter location taken up by an oil filter, so that type of conversion is
out. I guess that I will be adding something in the original distributor
hole or . . . . ? Ideas Please! I am looking for some sage advice about
what would be some good equipment choices and maybe even sources for same.
Are there any known problems with using two ignition systems with one set of
plugs?
Thanks,
Larry Prange
NX1929A
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2004
From: HOEVELMANN <hoevelmann(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Wheels and axels
I am going to have St. Croix aircraft build my landing gear soon and was wondering
what size axles I should use and the best wheels 5'' or 6''. Thanks for your
help.
James J. Hoevelmann
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re:Dual points for the Corvair engine
Date: Apr 22, 2004
Regarding the dual point system Willaim Wynn has to offer. There are two
sets of points mounted within the distributor. With this arrangement each
set of points require a coil and condensor. Only one set of points will be
used at any given time. An electronic switch is required to select which set
of points will be in use at a time. The redundancy is in having that extra
set of points if the other fails, and that rarely happens. This is the
arrangement I will be using with my Corvair engine.
\Hope this helps.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Prange Larry J PSNS" <prangel(at)psns.navy.mil>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Model A Ignition
Hey Les et al,
Thanks for your thoughts. I'm under the impression that William Wayne's
Corvair engine conversion uses two ignition system wired to a single set of
plugs successfully. Does he use some kind of high-voltage isolation diodes
or something to prevent the two systems from interfering with each other?
Or maybe the two ignition systems don't care about each other. Would a
magneto and a conventional battery system be okay to use together in this
configuration? Maybe some of you Corvair guys could weigh in on this
please.
About the 'fouled plug'. I'll just have to take my chances with that. I am
more concerned about a catastrophic failure of a single magneto system than
about loosing one plug out of four. I am hoping that a prudent maintenance
schedule will fend off the 'fouled plug' scenario.
You are correct about my 'former starter position' statement. My error.
(The 'ol brain just ain't what it used to be.) I meant to say that I have
seen magneto adapters/mounts that position the magneto under the exhaust
manifold, next to the aft cylinder on the port side of the engine (as the
engine sits in a Piet). I have an after-market oil filter kit mounted
there. This prevents me from putting a magneto in that area. So, I was
asking if there is another way to mount a second ignition system other than
putting it there or putting it in the distributor hole where it is exposed
to the prop blast?
Larry
NX1929A
---
From: Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Larry
Here is my take on it.
1.The problem with trying to fire one plug with two sources is that the
odds of ever
getting both systems to fire at the EXACT same time is more or less
impossible,
especially for all four plugs. If they don't fire at the same time the high
voltage
will follow back down the none energized plug wire instead of firing the
plug.
2. The other thing to remember is that most likely a misfire will be caused
by a fouled plug which this will do nothing for.
3. I here there are twin plug heads available for model A's.
4. I don't understand your comment about the "former starter hole" being
taken up by a oil filter. I was sure that the starter mounted to the bell
housing
adapter that bolted to the block which you certainly don't want or need on a
airplane.
Les
--------------------------------------------
Dear 'A' Ford Engine Gurus,
On my ('31) Ford I am currently using a single magneto per The Plans.
However, I would like to add a second ignition source (magneto or battery)
and wire both systems to one set of plugs. I have the engine's (former)
starter location taken up by an oil filter, so that type of conversion is
out. I guess that I will be adding something in the original distributor
hole or . . . . ? Ideas Please! I am looking for some sage advice about
what would be some good equipment choices and maybe even sources for same.
Are there any known problems with using two ignition systems with one set of
plugs?
Thanks,
Larry Prange
NX1929A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Horizontal stab question
Go here and look through all the Piet photo
galleries. There's quite a few pics of the
tail parts made by a number of builders
http://www.mykitplane.com/
Clif
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab question
>
>
> the outer end pieces for the horizontal stabilizer and the elevators
are
> the ones I'm refering to.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 23, 2004
Subject: Re: Horizontal stab question
Sounds like the bottom line is that the horizontal stab ends up parallel to
the top longerons, no positive or negative incidence, correct?
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab question
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
Subject: T-88 Temperature Limit
Date: Apr 23, 2004
According to the System Three Literature the upper service limit of T-88 is
160 degrees F. I would guess that the internal temperature of a dark
colored wing could exceed this especially when sitting still on the ground
in the summer time. Has anyone experienced (or heard of ) the adhesive
failing due to heat?
Just wondering,
Bob Bailey - Missouri
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 2004
From: Jim Cooper <blugoos1(at)direcway.com>
Subject: AN latches
I downloaded the wonderful pics DJ Vegh took of his "flop". We're putting a
"flop" on our GN1 Aircamper, and want to know what AN latches are. Apparently
they are used to lock the flop in the down position. Where can I purchase AN
latches? Thanks, Jim Cooper
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: AN latches
Date: Apr 23, 2004
I used Aircraft Spruce part number
TL800G Latch
TL800-5 Strike
I can provide some detailed pics of the latches installed if you'd like
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Cooper
To: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 7:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: AN latches
I downloaded the wonderful pics DJ Vegh took of his "flop". We're putting a
"flop" on our GN1 Aircamper, and want to know what AN latches are. Apparently
they are used to lock the flop in the down position. Where can I purchase AN
latches? Thanks, Jim Cooper
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: AN latches
Date: Apr 23, 2004
also... the actual name is DZUS latches... I have no idea why I called them AN
latches... They are not an AN part number. I need to make that change on my
website.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Cooper
To: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 7:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: AN latches
I downloaded the wonderful pics DJ Vegh took of his "flop". We're putting a
"flop" on our GN1 Aircamper, and want to know what AN latches are. Apparently
they are used to lock the flop in the down position. Where can I purchase AN
latches? Thanks, Jim Cooper
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 24, 2004
Subject: Re: T-88 Temperature Limit
In a message dated 4/23/04 8:23:47 PM Central Daylight Time, baileys(at)ktis.net
writes:
<< Has anyone experienced (or heard of ) the adhesive failing due to heat? >>
Good question. I have never heard of any failures, but always wondered about
that, myself.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 24, 2004
Subject: Re: Horizontal stab question
In a message dated 4/23/04 8:53:17 AM Central Daylight Time, At7000ft(at)aol.com
writes:
<< Sounds like the bottom line is that the horizontal stab ends up parallel
to
the top longerons, no positive or negative incidence, correct? >>
That is correct.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: T-88 Temperature Limit
I went through this concern as well as my understanding
was that it lost 1/2 it's strength at that temp.
From their site- lap shear strength in maple-1800 psi.
The wood let go. Doesn't tell us anything.
Tensile strength of the film-7000 psi.Variation with
temp on glued aluminum; 2500 psi @ 67 to 1000
psi @ 180 F. That's shear strength again but is that the
shear strength of the glue? or simply the adhesion limit
on aluminum?
Shear strength for spruce is 1120 psi. So it appears
that at 160 or so it would be a tossup as to which
would let go, wood or glue. Up to that point the joint
is going to be the same strength. Above it the glue
becomes progressively weaker than the wood so it
depends on what the specific load is on that joint. If it
never sees more than 500 psi then it will do it's job until
the glue weakens below that figure, at an even higher temp.
What's the smallest gusset in the fuselage and where is it?
If it was 5 square inches then the shear strength would be
5600 lb. If that joint will never see 1000 lb then it will
probably be good at very high temps. If it sees 3000 lb
then the failure temp will be lower but may still be well above
anything that joint will experience.
That's the way it looks to me anyway.
Does it appear reasonable to you guys?
Clif
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Temperature Limit
>
> In a message dated 4/23/04 8:23:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
baileys(at)ktis.net
> writes:
>
> << Has anyone experienced (or heard of ) the adhesive failing due to heat?
>>
>
> Good question. I have never heard of any failures, but always wondered
about
> that, myself.
>
> Chuck G.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: T-88 Temperature Limit
Date: Apr 24, 2004
That's one reason I used resorcinol
Jack Phillips, Raleigh, NC
Still spraying silver - getting close to putting color coats on
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of baileys
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Temperature Limit
According to the System Three Literature the upper service limit of T-88 is
160 degrees F. I would guess that the internal temperature of a dark
colored wing could exceed this especially when sitting still on the ground
in the summer time. Has anyone experienced (or heard of ) the adhesive
failing due to heat?
Just wondering,
Bob Bailey - Missouri
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
Subject: Re: T-88 Temperature Limit
Date: Apr 24, 2004
Thanks Cliff and Chuck,
I guess my next question would be; does the strength return after it cools
down or does it progressively get worse? In other words is the weaking
process cumulative? It will be interesting to see the response from System
Three on this.
Bob B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Temperature Limit
>
> I went through this concern as well as my understanding
> was that it lost 1/2 it's strength at that temp.
>
> From their site- lap shear strength in maple-1800 psi.
> The wood let go. Doesn't tell us anything.
>
> Tensile strength of the film-7000 psi.Variation with
> temp on glued aluminum; 2500 psi @ 67 to 1000
> psi @ 180 F. That's shear strength again but is that the
> shear strength of the glue? or simply the adhesion limit
> on aluminum?
>
> Shear strength for spruce is 1120 psi. So it appears
> that at 160 or so it would be a tossup as to which
> would let go, wood or glue. Up to that point the joint
> is going to be the same strength. Above it the glue
> becomes progressively weaker than the wood so it
> depends on what the specific load is on that joint. If it
> never sees more than 500 psi then it will do it's job until
> the glue weakens below that figure, at an even higher temp.
>
> What's the smallest gusset in the fuselage and where is it?
> If it was 5 square inches then the shear strength would be
> 5600 lb. If that joint will never see 1000 lb then it will
> probably be good at very high temps. If it sees 3000 lb
> then the failure temp will be lower but may still be well above
> anything that joint will experience.
>
> That's the way it looks to me anyway.
> Does it appear reasonable to you guys?
>
> Clif
>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Temperature Limit
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 4/23/04 8:23:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
> baileys(at)ktis.net
> > writes:
> >
> > << Has anyone experienced (or heard of ) the adhesive failing due to
heat?
> >>
> >
> > Good question. I have never heard of any failures, but always wondered
> about
> > that, myself.
> >
> > Chuck G.
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: T-88 Temperature Limit
Date: Apr 24, 2004
That is why I use Aerolite.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Temperature Limit
>
> That's one reason I used resorcinol
>
> Jack Phillips, Raleigh, NC
>
> Still spraying silver - getting close to putting color coats on
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of baileys
> Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 9:23 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Temperature Limit
>
>
> According to the System Three Literature the upper service limit of T-88
is
> 160 degrees F. I would guess that the internal temperature of a dark
> colored wing could exceed this especially when sitting still on the ground
> in the summer time. Has anyone experienced (or heard of ) the adhesive
> failing due to heat?
> Just wondering,
> Bob Bailey - Missouri
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: continental engines
Date: Apr 24, 2004
Les,
A prop on a taperered shaft crank with the hub, as used on the A-50 through
A-80 in the A series and the C-75/85 in the C series, would not require the
bolt holes to be counterbored on the engine side of the propeller's hub (ie.
in the wood). The prop is held to the hub assembly by bolts with cotter
pinned nuts (that are on the forward face of the hub, BTW).
The integral flanged crankshaft, as used on the motors quoted above AND the
C-90 and O-200, have pressed in bushings that are threaded to recieved the
prop bolts that are safety wired in pairs. It is required that the prop
bolt holes be counterbored on the engine side to receive these bushings.
The bushings are not there to "drive" the prop but rather to provide enough
thread engagement for the prop bolts. It is the friction of the front plate
(used with a wood prop) and the crank flange provided by the proper tension
on the prop bolts that provides the abiltiy to transfer the torque from the
crank to the prop.
Old Sensenich props for the A series where designated, for example, W72C42.
The W for wood, the 72 for diameter, the 42 for pitch, and the C for a 4-3/8
x 6 bolt pattern with hp not to exceed 65 and the rpm not to exceed 2350.
This was later changed to a W72CK42 designation. The K is to designate that
the props are counterbored so to be able to be used on a flanged crankshaft.
If the W72CK42 prop is to be used on a tapered shaft crank with its separate
hub, then aluminum bushings are pressed into the holes to fill them up with
matter.
I hope this helps.
Best to do a google search on "sensenich wood propeller" and see their
website.
If a prop maker says he never has seen an A series with an integral flanged
crank, then find another prop builder.
chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: continental engines
>
> Hi
> Can some one explain to me the differences internally between
> the 65, 75 and 85 continental engines. As near as I can see they
> all have the same bore and stroke and are just reved up more.
> I think I read once that the 75 had oil holes drilled in the rods
> to squirt oil on the opposing piston. I see there are various carburators
> listed for these engines but I have no specifications for them.
> Why do I want to know? Well I have a A65 in nice shape, at
> least that is what the tag on the crankcase says, but when I ordered
> the prop and said I had a crank with the integral flange the prop
> maker said he had never heard of a 65 having the integral flanged
> crank. I also see I have oil squirt holes in the connecting rods.
> Help????
> Les
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: squirt holes
Date: Apr 24, 2004
Les,
The squirt holes were originally used exclusively on the A-75 and A-80 to
provide cooling oil to the waffle pattern cast into the underside of the
piston dome. The squirt holes eventually became standard and replacement
rods from Continental in the later years all had them. It is better to have
them than not. Also, the A-75 pistons, as said earlier, have the waffle on
the underside but are otherwise identical to SOME of the A-65 pistons. If
you have these pistons in the A-65, as many engines do, then that is good
too.
If these to internal mods are present, then it is merely necessary to do
four more things to get 75 hp: rejet the carb, replace the venturi with a
larger one, reset the magneto timing, and install a propeller that can do
the following: it is rated at 75 hp (it won't be overstressed), it can be
spun at 2650 rpm (it won't be overstressed), and it will turn the minimum
static rpm for the engine prop combination which should be about 2400 rpm or
so. It is imperitive that the prop be sized to allow for 2650 rpm when you
are at wide open throttle at sea level on a standard day. If you don't turn
up the rpms, you will not develop the power. Many have done all the mods
except change the prop and are disappointed becuase the 65 hp prop will not
allow the rpms to be developed. To turn up the higher rpms, the prop must
be either less in diameter (discouraged) or less pitch (encouraged). With
the piet design and its slow speed, always try for the biggest diameter
possible for the best efficiency. 74 to 76 inches is not unreasonable.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: continental engines
>
> Hi
> Can some one explain to me the differences internally between
> the 65, 75 and 85 continental engines. As near as I can see they
> all have the same bore and stroke and are just reved up more.
> I think I read once that the 75 had oil holes drilled in the rods
> to squirt oil on the opposing piston. I see there are various carburators
> listed for these engines but I have no specifications for them.
> Why do I want to know? Well I have a A65 in nice shape, at
> least that is what the tag on the crankcase says, but when I ordered
> the prop and said I had a crank with the integral flange the prop
> maker said he had never heard of a 65 having the integral flanged
> crank. I also see I have oil squirt holes in the connecting rods.
> Help????
> Les
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: More on A-75 props
Date: Apr 24, 2004
Les,
I meant to say:
It is imperitive that the prop be sized to allow for 2650 rpm when you are
at wide open throttle at sea level on a standard day WHEN IN LEVEL FLIGHT.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: squirt holes
>
> Les,
>
> The squirt holes were originally used exclusively on the A-75 and A-80 to
> provide cooling oil to the waffle pattern cast into the underside of the
> piston dome. The squirt holes eventually became standard and replacement
> rods from Continental in the later years all had them. It is better to
have
> them than not. Also, the A-75 pistons, as said earlier, have the waffle
on
> the underside but are otherwise identical to SOME of the A-65 pistons. If
> you have these pistons in the A-65, as many engines do, then that is good
> too.
>
> If these to internal mods are present, then it is merely necessary to do
> four more things to get 75 hp: rejet the carb, replace the venturi with a
> larger one, reset the magneto timing, and install a propeller that can do
> the following: it is rated at 75 hp (it won't be overstressed), it can be
> spun at 2650 rpm (it won't be overstressed), and it will turn the minimum
> static rpm for the engine prop combination which should be about 2400 rpm
or
> so. It is imperitive that the prop be sized to allow for 2650 rpm when
you
> are at wide open throttle at sea level on a standard day. If you don't
turn
> up the rpms, you will not develop the power. Many have done all the mods
> except change the prop and are disappointed becuase the 65 hp prop will
not
> allow the rpms to be developed. To turn up the higher rpms, the prop must
> be either less in diameter (discouraged) or less pitch (encouraged). With
> the piet design and its slow speed, always try for the biggest diameter
> possible for the best efficiency. 74 to 76 inches is not unreasonable.
>
>
> Chris Bobka
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 9:38 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: continental engines
>
>
> >
> > Hi
> > Can some one explain to me the differences internally between
> > the 65, 75 and 85 continental engines. As near as I can see they
> > all have the same bore and stroke and are just reved up more.
> > I think I read once that the 75 had oil holes drilled in the rods
> > to squirt oil on the opposing piston. I see there are various
carburators
> > listed for these engines but I have no specifications for them.
> > Why do I want to know? Well I have a A65 in nice shape, at
> > least that is what the tag on the crankcase says, but when I ordered
> > the prop and said I had a crank with the integral flange the prop
> > maker said he had never heard of a 65 having the integral flanged
> > crank. I also see I have oil squirt holes in the connecting rods.
> > Help????
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: squirt holes
Date: Apr 24, 2004
Chris. On the A-75 engines, will the name plate be stamped with "A-75" or
will it be stamped with "A-65" and the mods were simply made afterward by
the dealer, FBO or owner to make it a 75 horse engine? That is was this a
production engine?
the reason I asked is that last week I bought another run out engine I was
told was an A-75. When I got it home, I found it was stamped on the
dataplate with "A-65". No problem, I don't really care one way or the
other. From what I am hearing from you (and some old-timers at my airport,)
there's no way to tell without checking the carb jets, pistons, and venturi.
It has a tapered shaft.
I'm betting it's an A-65.
Thanks,
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: squirt holes
>
> Les,
>
> The squirt holes were originally used exclusively on the A-75 and A-80 to
> provide cooling oil to the waffle pattern cast into the underside of the
> piston dome. The squirt holes eventually became standard and replacement
> rods from Continental in the later years all had them. It is better to
have
> them than not. Also, the A-75 pistons, as said earlier, have the waffle
on
> the underside but are otherwise identical to SOME of the A-65 pistons. If
> you have these pistons in the A-65, as many engines do, then that is good
> too.
>
> If these to internal mods are present, then it is merely necessary to do
> four more things to get 75 hp: rejet the carb, replace the venturi with a
> larger one, reset the magneto timing, and install a propeller that can do
> the following: it is rated at 75 hp (it won't be overstressed), it can be
> spun at 2650 rpm (it won't be overstressed), and it will turn the minimum
> static rpm for the engine prop combination which should be about 2400 rpm
or
> so. It is imperitive that the prop be sized to allow for 2650 rpm when
you
> are at wide open throttle at sea level on a standard day. If you don't
turn
> up the rpms, you will not develop the power. Many have done all the mods
> except change the prop and are disappointed becuase the 65 hp prop will
not
> allow the rpms to be developed. To turn up the higher rpms, the prop must
> be either less in diameter (discouraged) or less pitch (encouraged). With
> the piet design and its slow speed, always try for the biggest diameter
> possible for the best efficiency. 74 to 76 inches is not unreasonable.
>
>
> Chris Bobka
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 9:38 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: continental engines
>
>
> >
> > Hi
> > Can some one explain to me the differences internally between
> > the 65, 75 and 85 continental engines. As near as I can see they
> > all have the same bore and stroke and are just reved up more.
> > I think I read once that the 75 had oil holes drilled in the rods
> > to squirt oil on the opposing piston. I see there are various
carburators
> > listed for these engines but I have no specifications for them.
> > Why do I want to know? Well I have a A65 in nice shape, at
> > least that is what the tag on the crankcase says, but when I ordered
> > the prop and said I had a crank with the integral flange the prop
> > maker said he had never heard of a 65 having the integral flanged
> > crank. I also see I have oil squirt holes in the connecting rods.
> > Help????
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 2004
From: Jim Cooper <blugoos1(at)direcway.com>
Subject: AN (DZUS) latches
My thanks to DJ Vegh for his prompt reply to my question regarding AN latches to
lock the "flop" in the down position. Yes, I would appreciate detailed pics
of the latches installed. I'll order them from Aircraft Spruce on Monday. Thanks
also for the stunning photos of your RC GN1 model! Jim Cooper in sunny South
Louisiana (Corky country!!)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
<001d01c42a5b$52c2dfb0$6501a8c0@Nancy>
Subject: Re: squirt holes
Date: Apr 24, 2004
Bert,
Exactly
"there's no way to tell without checking the carb jets, pistons, and
venturi"
These engines have been adulterated over the years and what should be there
and what is actually there differ greatly. Of course, for use on an
experimental, it does not really matter what the data plate says....
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: squirt holes
>
> Chris. On the A-75 engines, will the name plate be stamped with "A-75" or
> will it be stamped with "A-65" and the mods were simply made afterward by
> the dealer, FBO or owner to make it a 75 horse engine? That is was this a
> production engine?
>
> the reason I asked is that last week I bought another run out engine I was
> told was an A-75. When I got it home, I found it was stamped on the
> dataplate with "A-65". No problem, I don't really care one way or the
> other. From what I am hearing from you (and some old-timers at my
airport,)
> there's no way to tell without checking the carb jets, pistons, and
venturi.
> It has a tapered shaft.
>
> I'm betting it's an A-65.
>
> Thanks,
> Bert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 7:14 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: squirt holes
>
>
>
> >
> > Les,
> >
> > The squirt holes were originally used exclusively on the A-75 and A-80
to
> > provide cooling oil to the waffle pattern cast into the underside of the
> > piston dome. The squirt holes eventually became standard and
replacement
> > rods from Continental in the later years all had them. It is better to
> have
> > them than not. Also, the A-75 pistons, as said earlier, have the waffle
> on
> > the underside but are otherwise identical to SOME of the A-65 pistons.
If
> > you have these pistons in the A-65, as many engines do, then that is
good
> > too.
> >
> > If these to internal mods are present, then it is merely necessary to do
> > four more things to get 75 hp: rejet the carb, replace the venturi with
a
> > larger one, reset the magneto timing, and install a propeller that can
do
> > the following: it is rated at 75 hp (it won't be overstressed), it can
be
> > spun at 2650 rpm (it won't be overstressed), and it will turn the
minimum
> > static rpm for the engine prop combination which should be about 2400
rpm
> or
> > so. It is imperitive that the prop be sized to allow for 2650 rpm when
> you
> > are at wide open throttle at sea level on a standard day. If you don't
> turn
> > up the rpms, you will not develop the power. Many have done all the
mods
> > except change the prop and are disappointed becuase the 65 hp prop will
> not
> > allow the rpms to be developed. To turn up the higher rpms, the prop
must
> > be either less in diameter (discouraged) or less pitch (encouraged).
With
> > the piet design and its slow speed, always try for the biggest diameter
> > possible for the best efficiency. 74 to 76 inches is not unreasonable.
> >
> >
> > Chris Bobka
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 9:38 AM
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: continental engines
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Hi
> > > Can some one explain to me the differences internally between
> > > the 65, 75 and 85 continental engines. As near as I can see they
> > > all have the same bore and stroke and are just reved up more.
> > > I think I read once that the 75 had oil holes drilled in the rods
> > > to squirt oil on the opposing piston. I see there are various
> carburators
> > > listed for these engines but I have no specifications for them.
> > > Why do I want to know? Well I have a A65 in nice shape, at
> > > least that is what the tag on the crankcase says, but when I ordered
> > > the prop and said I had a crank with the integral flange the prop
> > > maker said he had never heard of a 65 having the integral flanged
> > > crank. I also see I have oil squirt holes in the connecting rods.
> > > Help????
> > > Les
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
<001d01c42a5b$52c2dfb0$6501a8c0@Nancy>
Subject: The A-75 is a production engine
Date: Apr 24, 2004
Bert,
To answer the first question, the A-75 is a production engine. The first
versions of it were fuel injected, the -8J, but this later gave way to the
carbed versions, the -8 being most common. Some of the A-75s have the -9
crankcase and accessory case allowing it to have a starter, either the
Hummer X which is a bungie stretched the length of the fuselage that is
literally geared to the crankshaft via an overriding clutch (wow) and
similar to the wind up the spring and release lawn mower engines, the
McDowell, which is tantamount to a pull start on a lawn mower, or an Eclipse
385 ( I think that number ) which is an electric starter run off of a
battery as the case does not have a provision for a generator.
The fuel injected engines, or formally fuel injected engines, would have a
boss forward of the intake spider where the injector pump would be driven
off of. It is identical to what was used on the O-200s to drive the vacuum
pump. A block off plate might be installed here. The -9 also came fuel
injected as the -9J. I believe that B and S makes a small dynamo that can
be mounted on a vacuum pump pad and this might be a simple way to have an
engine driven electrical system (although you might need a transponder then,
depending upon where you live).
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: squirt holes
>
> Chris. On the A-75 engines, will the name plate be stamped with "A-75" or
> will it be stamped with "A-65" and the mods were simply made afterward by
> the dealer, FBO or owner to make it a 75 horse engine? That is was this a
> production engine?
>
> the reason I asked is that last week I bought another run out engine I was
> told was an A-75. When I got it home, I found it was stamped on the
> dataplate with "A-65". No problem, I don't really care one way or the
> other. From what I am hearing from you (and some old-timers at my
airport,)
> there's no way to tell without checking the carb jets, pistons, and
venturi.
> It has a tapered shaft.
>
> I'm betting it's an A-65.
>
> Thanks,
> Bert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 7:14 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: squirt holes
>
>
>
> >
> > Les,
> >
> > The squirt holes were originally used exclusively on the A-75 and A-80
to
> > provide cooling oil to the waffle pattern cast into the underside of the
> > piston dome. The squirt holes eventually became standard and
replacement
> > rods from Continental in the later years all had them. It is better to
> have
> > them than not. Also, the A-75 pistons, as said earlier, have the waffle
> on
> > the underside but are otherwise identical to SOME of the A-65 pistons.
If
> > you have these pistons in the A-65, as many engines do, then that is
good
> > too.
> >
> > If these to internal mods are present, then it is merely necessary to do
> > four more things to get 75 hp: rejet the carb, replace the venturi with
a
> > larger one, reset the magneto timing, and install a propeller that can
do
> > the following: it is rated at 75 hp (it won't be overstressed), it can
be
> > spun at 2650 rpm (it won't be overstressed), and it will turn the
minimum
> > static rpm for the engine prop combination which should be about 2400
rpm
> or
> > so. It is imperitive that the prop be sized to allow for 2650 rpm when
> you
> > are at wide open throttle at sea level on a standard day. If you don't
> turn
> > up the rpms, you will not develop the power. Many have done all the
mods
> > except change the prop and are disappointed becuase the 65 hp prop will
> not
> > allow the rpms to be developed. To turn up the higher rpms, the prop
must
> > be either less in diameter (discouraged) or less pitch (encouraged).
With
> > the piet design and its slow speed, always try for the biggest diameter
> > possible for the best efficiency. 74 to 76 inches is not unreasonable.
> >
> >
> > Chris Bobka
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 9:38 AM
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: continental engines
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Hi
> > > Can some one explain to me the differences internally between
> > > the 65, 75 and 85 continental engines. As near as I can see they
> > > all have the same bore and stroke and are just reved up more.
> > > I think I read once that the 75 had oil holes drilled in the rods
> > > to squirt oil on the opposing piston. I see there are various
> carburators
> > > listed for these engines but I have no specifications for them.
> > > Why do I want to know? Well I have a A65 in nice shape, at
> > > least that is what the tag on the crankcase says, but when I ordered
> > > the prop and said I had a crank with the integral flange the prop
> > > maker said he had never heard of a 65 having the integral flanged
> > > crank. I also see I have oil squirt holes in the connecting rods.
> > > Help????
> > > Les
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: AN (DZUS) latches
Date: Apr 24, 2004
I'll snap some pics tomorrow and then post a link to them. That little RC GN-1
has been getting LOTS of flight time over the past few months. I swapped the
motor for one that uses less amps and produces more thrust. I'd estimate it has
about 60 flights on it so far. It looks really odd when I fly it inverted!
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Cooper
To: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 5:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: AN (DZUS) latches
My thanks to DJ Vegh for his prompt reply to my question regarding AN latches
to lock the "flop" in the down position. Yes, I would appreciate detailed pics
of the latches installed. I'll order them from Aircraft Spruce on Monday. Thanks
also for the stunning photos of your RC GN1 model! Jim Cooper in sunny South
Louisiana (Corky country!!)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al Latham" <geebeed(at)grm.net>
<001d01c42a5b$52c2dfb0$6501a8c0@Nancy> <012d01c42a63$a9a97340$0301a8c0@domain>
Subject: Re: The A-75 is a production engine
Date: Apr 25, 2004
Hi Chris,
You wouldn't know were a guy could find one of those bungee starters, would
you?
Got pictures of one on a Piper J-5A and I think it would be neat to have one
on mine.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The A-75 is a production engine
>
> Bert,
>
> To answer the first question, the A-75 is a production engine. The first
> versions of it were fuel injected, the -8J, but this later gave way to the
> carbed versions, the -8 being most common. Some of the A-75s have the -9
> crankcase and accessory case allowing it to have a starter, either the
> Hummer X which is a bungie stretched the length of the fuselage that is
> literally geared to the crankshaft via an overriding clutch (wow) and
> similar to the wind up the spring and release lawn mower engines, the
> McDowell, which is tantamount to a pull start on a lawn mower, or an
Eclipse
> 385 ( I think that number ) which is an electric starter run off of a
> battery as the case does not have a provision for a generator.
>
> The fuel injected engines, or formally fuel injected engines, would have a
> boss forward of the intake spider where the injector pump would be driven
> off of. It is identical to what was used on the O-200s to drive the
vacuum
> pump. A block off plate might be installed here. The -9 also came fuel
> injected as the -9J. I believe that B and S makes a small dynamo that can
> be mounted on a vacuum pump pad and this might be a simple way to have an
> engine driven electrical system (although you might need a transponder
then,
> depending upon where you live).
>
> Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
<001d01c42a5b$52c2dfb0$6501a8c0@Nancy> <012d01c42a63$a9a97340$0301a8c0@domain>
<003601c42a92$469e7c80$4e608bd8@grm.net>
Subject: Re: The A-75 is a production engine
Date: Apr 25, 2004
Al,
I have one that I bought on ebay a few years ago although it is incomplete.
It took me a few months just to figure out how it worked. The problem with
it is twofold. First is that you have to have a -9 case. Do you have a -9
case and I mean crankcase AND accessory case? Second is that it does not
have an oil seal where the shaft exits the oil side of the unit so the
starter has a built in oil leak. Still interested?
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Latham" <geebeed(at)grm.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The A-75 is a production engine
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> You wouldn't know were a guy could find one of those bungee starters,
would
> you?
> Got pictures of one on a Piper J-5A and I think it would be neat to have
one
> on mine.
>
> Al
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 8:21 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: The A-75 is a production engine
>
>
>
> >
> > Bert,
> >
> > To answer the first question, the A-75 is a production engine. The
first
> > versions of it were fuel injected, the -8J, but this later gave way to
the
> > carbed versions, the -8 being most common. Some of the A-75s have
the -9
> > crankcase and accessory case allowing it to have a starter, either the
> > Hummer X which is a bungie stretched the length of the fuselage that is
> > literally geared to the crankshaft via an overriding clutch (wow) and
> > similar to the wind up the spring and release lawn mower engines, the
> > McDowell, which is tantamount to a pull start on a lawn mower, or an
> Eclipse
> > 385 ( I think that number ) which is an electric starter run off of a
> > battery as the case does not have a provision for a generator.
> >
> > The fuel injected engines, or formally fuel injected engines, would have
a
> > boss forward of the intake spider where the injector pump would be
driven
> > off of. It is identical to what was used on the O-200s to drive the
> vacuum
> > pump. A block off plate might be installed here. The -9 also came fuel
> > injected as the -9J. I believe that B and S makes a small dynamo that
can
> > be mounted on a vacuum pump pad and this might be a simple way to have
an
> > engine driven electrical system (although you might need a transponder
> then,
> > depending upon where you live).
> >
> > Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 2004
From: Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: continental engine
Chris
Thank you for the information on A65 vs A 75. I have the drilled con rods
and the waffle pattern pistons.
The engine is now mostly together and I am looking at 2 other things now:
1. I have the old Case magnetos and had pretty much made up my mind to bite
the bullet and buy new
Slicks, however out at the airport yesterday I was talking to a guy with a
nice Aeronca Chief and he said
that the Case mags had proved over the years to be very reliable, more so
than the Slick's. His advise was
to very carefully evaluate the Case mags. Any comments on the Case mags????
2. If I decide to go with the Case mags does nayone know where I can get
some non-shielded Champion
C26 spark plugs(or equal)????
3. The carb I have has no mixture control. I can't see where it could have
been removed either. Did some
of these engines have non adjustable carbs???? I will take the carb
tomorrow to a old time aircraft
mechanic and see what he can tell me.
Thank you again to all for the great information, it sure makes this
e-group worthwhile. I am hoping to
fly this summer.
Les in Calgary Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 2004
From: Dave and Connie <dmatthe1(at)rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Re: continental engine
Les,
I have Case mags in my Taylorcraft. They are very reliable and according
to my IA there has never been an AD on them. The only problem that I have
had with them is that the internal grounding came loose on one during an
annual. That led to an accidental start when we were getting ready to taxi
back to the hangar. Not a real problem because the person propping knew
what he was doing. I have one with an impulse and one without.
There are manuals for the Case mags online at
http://www.taylorcraft.org. Go to the technical resources page and you
will find pdf files that I scanned.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
At 11:23 AM 4/25/2004, you wrote:
>
>Chris
>Thank you for the information on A65 vs A 75. I have the drilled con rods
>and the waffle pattern pistons.
>The engine is now mostly together and I am looking at 2 other things now:
>1. I have the old Case magnetos and had pretty much made up my mind to
>bite the bullet and buy new
>Slicks, however out at the airport yesterday I was talking to a guy with a
>nice Aeronca Chief and he said
>that the Case mags had proved over the years to be very reliable, more so
>than the Slick's. His advise was
>to very carefully evaluate the Case mags. Any comments on the Case mags????
>2. If I decide to go with the Case mags does nayone know where I can get
>some non-shielded Champion
>C26 spark plugs(or equal)????
>3. The carb I have has no mixture control. I can't see where it could have
>been removed either. Did some
>of these engines have non adjustable carbs???? I will take the carb
>tomorrow to a old time aircraft
>mechanic and see what he can tell me.
>
>Thank you again to all for the great information, it sure makes this
>e-group worthwhile. I am hoping to
>fly this summer.
>Les in Calgary Canada
>
>
>---
>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 2004
From: Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: continental engines
I did some more research and the carb I have is a Bendix NA-S3B which
appears to have a factory
made cover over the location where the mixture adjustment would go on a
NA-S3A1 carb.
Being a "B" model would lead me to think that it might be a "improved"
version????
Can anyone shed some light on this???
Thanks
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: continental engines
Date: Apr 25, 2004
Les,
I have not done my homework on this YET but maybe the B is the non
adjustable mixture carb.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: continental engines
>
> I did some more research and the carb I have is a Bendix NA-S3B which
> appears to have a factory
> made cover over the location where the mixture adjustment would go on a
> NA-S3A1 carb.
> Being a "B" model would lead me to think that it might be a "improved"
> version????
> Can anyone shed some light on this???
> Thanks
> Les
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al Latham" <geebeed(at)grm.net>
Subject: Re: continental engine
Date: Apr 25, 2004
Les,
As for plugs the only new production non shielded plug is the Champion M-41.
As for C-26's you might look at fly-in flea markets, I bought 4 sets for my
Menasco
and 3 sets of BG plugs,although everyone says that the BG's are junk... They
all were
either new or remanufactured, the reman ones look just like the new ones,
only way I
could tell is the tube they came in had reman printed on it.
I have a Marvel-Sheveler (misspelled I'm sure) MA-3 for a Lycoming O-145
that has
no mixture control. I don't think I'd worry too much about it, I wired mine
full rich on
our Piper J-5A, I'm not much on leaning, seen too many guys ruin perfectly
good engines
with that little knob, although it would take some fear out of shut down.
Also my two cent's worth...if the Case mags are working fine I wouldn't
change them out...
but if you do I'd be very interested in them for my J-5
Al Latham
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: continental engine
>
> Chris
> Thank you for the information on A65 vs A 75. I have the drilled con rods
> and the waffle pattern pistons.
> The engine is now mostly together and I am looking at 2 other things now:
> 1. I have the old Case magnetos and had pretty much made up my mind to
bite
> the bullet and buy new
> Slicks, however out at the airport yesterday I was talking to a guy with a
> nice Aeronca Chief and he said
> that the Case mags had proved over the years to be very reliable, more so
> than the Slick's. His advise was
> to very carefully evaluate the Case mags. Any comments on the Case
mags????
> 2. If I decide to go with the Case mags does nayone know where I can get
> some non-shielded Champion
> C26 spark plugs(or equal)????
> 3. The carb I have has no mixture control. I can't see where it could have
> been removed either. Did some
> of these engines have non adjustable carbs???? I will take the carb
> tomorrow to a old time aircraft
> mechanic and see what he can tell me.
>
> Thank you again to all for the great information, it sure makes this
> e-group worthwhile. I am hoping to
> fly this summer.
> Les in Calgary Canada
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al Latham" <geebeed(at)grm.net>
<001d01c42a5b$52c2dfb0$6501a8c0@Nancy> <012d01c42a63$a9a97340$0301a8c0@domain>
<003601c42a92$469e7c80$4e608bd8@grm.net> <000701c42a94$d28870a0$0301a8c0@domain>
Subject: Re: The A-75 is a production engine
Date: Apr 25, 2004
Chris,
You paint such Rosie pictures... I do have a -9 set-up. Is there any way
that you can see
to modify the unit to incorporate a oil seal, Having a J-5 with a slick
black belly isn't something
I'm very interested in...
From what I've seen, I'm just starting to look into jacking up the HP on an
A-65, with some
parts / $$$ you can take the A-65 all the way to an A-80.
You can e-mail me at goldnav(at)ipa.net, just put Al Latham in the subject
line. With my new job
I'm only at this address on some weekends.
Thanks,
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The A-75 is a production engine
>
> Al,
>
> I have one that I bought on ebay a few years ago although it is
incomplete.
> It took me a few months just to figure out how it worked. The problem
with
> it is twofold. First is that you have to have a -9 case. Do you have
a -9
> case and I mean crankcase AND accessory case? Second is that it does not
> have an oil seal where the shaft exits the oil side of the unit so the
> starter has a built in oil leak. Still interested?
>
> Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 26, 2004
Subject: Piet For Sale
Pieters,
Am offering NX41CC for sale. Have about given up on the Sport Pilot rule. The
expense of hangar and insurance is too much waste without my being allowed to
fly LEGALLY. In that I have another Piet well along in the construction
process which will be finished most probably before, if ever, the Sport Pilot rule
is passed I won't be out of the Piet family.
I will ask and sell for $15K. No hasselling, bargaining, chiseling or other
tricks of merchandising. I sold pianos for 45 years. Believe me I've seen it
all.
Seriously, 41CC is a bargain at the offering price. TT aircraft and engine
since overhaul, A-65, 41 hours. 6X6 cleveland wheels w/Cessna brakes and cyls.
16+ gallon forward tank. Scott t/w. Poly system over dacron. Spruce fuse, fir
wings and spars, pine ribs. T/O 40, climb 55, cruise 70. Less than 4 gph fuel
consumption. Good logs. Comp check last week, 80, 78 78, 80. Have lots of pics
so if anyone is interested e mail me direct and I will be happy to send pics
and answer any further questions. Terms: 3 BMOs of $ 4999.99dated in intervals
of 2 days
Corky and Isabelle
318 868 3385
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd(at)ssa.gov>
Subject: SNF
Date: Apr 26, 2004
Dick,
How did the wings come out? How far did you get them? Glad you got them back
home ok.
Have fun with your other Piet.
Skip
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Navratil
Subject: Pietenpol-List: SNF
I made it back to St. Paul late last night with my SNF built wings. Thanks
to all who helped put them together.
Now it's time to get out and see if the other Piet really will fly.
Dick N.
Dick,
How did the wings come out? How far did
you get them? Glad you got them back home ok.
Have fun with your other Piet.
Skip
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Navratil
PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: SNF
I made it back to St. Paul late last
night with my SNF built wings. Thanks to all who helped put them
together.
Now it's time to get out and see if
the other Piet really will fly.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: piet hats...
Date: Apr 26, 2004
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Getting ready for the 75th anniversary version. They will be $20 plus
shipping or available at Brodhead (if anyone shows...)
I've got 9 green and 1 black that are left-over from last batch. $10
each plus $2 per package shipping in the US.
These say "low and slow for 70 years" on the back instead of low and
slow for 75 years!
Offered here first.
Ebay with same reserve in a couple of days.
Steve Eldredge
NX7229R
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Piet For Sale
Date: Apr 26, 2004
Corky,
I've seen pictures of your plane, and it looks like a good deal to me.
Just think, you'll have the luxury of selling a Piet,,,,,and still having a Piet.
:
)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 1:39 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
Pieters,
Am offering NX41CC for sale. Have about given up on the Sport Pilot rule. The
expense of hangar and insurance is too much waste without my being allowed to
fly LEGALLY. In that I have another Piet well along in the construction process
which will be finished most probably before, if ever, the Sport Pilot rule
is passed I won't be out of the Piet family.
I will ask and sell for $15K. No hasselling, bargaining, chiseling or other tricks
of merchandising. I sold pianos for 45 years. Believe me I've seen it all.
Seriously, 41CC is a bargain at the offering price. TT aircraft and engine since
overhaul, A-65, 41 hours. 6X6 cleveland wheels w/Cessna brakes and cyls. 16+
gallon forward tank. Scott t/w. Poly system over dacron. Spruce fuse, fir wings
and spars, pine ribs. T/O 40, climb 55, cruise 70. Less than 4 gph fuel consumption.
Good logs. Comp check last week, 80, 78 78, 80. Have lots of pics
so if anyone is interested e mail me direct and I will be happy to send pics
and answer any further questions. Terms: 3 BMOs of $ 4999.99dated in intervals
of 2 days
Corky and Isabelle
318 868 3385
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: NA-S3B carb
Date: Apr 26, 2004
Chris wrote-
>I have not done my homework on this YET but maybe the B is the
>non adjustable mixture carb.
I believe that's correct. That's the carb I have; photos at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/corvair/carb.html and the model number is visible
in one of the photos. And yes, I'm aware that the safety wiring on the
shiny cover plate is incorrect on the top screw (thanks, John Esch).
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken & Lisa" <KL0914(at)cogeco.ca>
Subject: Corvair Clinic
Date: Apr 27, 2004
Any word on the "Corvair Clinic" set for June in Ohio?
Ken
Gn1 2992
Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Corvair Clinic
Date: Apr 27, 2004
Or May in Florida?
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: piet hats...
Date: Apr 27, 2004
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Sorry, here is the contact info and a link to a picture:
http://Aircamper.byu.edu
Paypal to wifeopilot"at"sfcn.org
Or by snail mail
Steve Eldredge
2810 E Canyon Rd
Spanish Fork, UT 84660
Thanks to all who have replied, I still have some green left, the black
one is sold.
See you in Brodhead!
Steve E
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Eldredge
Subject: Pietenpol-List: piet hats...
Getting ready for the 75th anniversary version. They will be $20 plus
shipping or available at Brodhead (if anyone shows...)
I've got 9 green and 1 black that are left-over from last batch. $10
each plus $2 per package shipping in the US.
These say "low and slow for 70 years" on the back instead of low and
slow for 75 years!
Offered here first.
Ebay with same reserve in a couple of days.
Steve Eldredge
NX7229R
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2004
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Corvair Clinic
>Any word on the "Corvair Clinic" set for June in Ohio?
>
>Ken
>Gn1 2992
>
>Canada
Hi Everyone,
Since Ken asked, this is to remind everyone that the "Buckeye Corvair
College" will be held June 18-20 at Barber Airfield (2D1 on the
Detroit Sectional) in Alliance,Ohio. Alliance is about 20 minutes
east of Akron, Ohio.
William Wynne will be there to answer all your Corvair questions and
assist you with your engine project. Hopefully, he will also have his
new Corvair-powered Zenith CH601 on display.
The sponsor is EAA Chapter 82. Feel free to fly or drive. If you fly,
don't forget your tie-downs! Barber is a GRASS strip with limited
installed tie-downs. Think Brodhead :).
There will be camping on the field, with access to limited cbathroom
and shower facilities, and there are reasonable hotels and
restaurants nearby in Alliance.
We ask that anyone planning to do SIGNIFICANT work on an engine
project consider making a donation ($25-100 suggested) to help
William and the Chapter offset expenses. Just looking is completely
free, but we'll still pass the hat :).
The Chapter is providing it's clubhouse and workshop space, where
there will be bench space, ample lighting, compressed air and a parts
washer.
There will also be outside space in the form of a pavilion tent for
those who want to leave their engines on the back of their trucks,
but want a covered space to work.
Plan on bringing your engine, parts and whatever hand tools you need.
Hope to see you all there.
I'll be talking to William soon & more details should be forthcoming
on his web site:
http://www.flycorvair.com
P.S. - would someone please post this to the CorvairCraft site?
Regards,
Kip Gardner, President, EAA Chapter 82
--
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2004
From: Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: NAS3B carb
Oscar
Yes that is the same carb I have been talking about. It appears to be a
acceptable unit and correct for my engine. Thanks to Dave I have downloaded
the info from the Taylorcraft site on my engine and so now I can measure
the venturi and jet and see how it is set up.
Thank you to all for their help.
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gnwac(at)cs.com
Date: Apr 27, 2004
Subject: Re: Corvair Clinic
Corvair Question,
A friend of mine has done some research on the Piet after finding out
that I was going to start building one for myself. He had asked me which
engine I was planning to use and I told him that I was leaning toward the Con
o-200. He said, based on his research, that BHP had believed that the Corvair
was
the best choice for my plane rather than the Con.
To the Group. Did BHP believe that the Corvair was the best choice
verse the others he had used? And did he believe it was the best choice only
because he never had tried the Con 65 thru 100 hp engines?
Thanks,
Greg Menoche
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: NAS3B carb
Date: Apr 27, 2004
Les,
When you take the venturi out of the carb, it will have the size cast into
its outside surface. It will either be a 1-1/4", 1-5/16", or 1-3/8". No
need to measure.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: NAS3B carb
>
> Oscar
> Yes that is the same carb I have been talking about. It appears to be a
> acceptable unit and correct for my engine. Thanks to Dave I have
downloaded
> the info from the Taylorcraft site on my engine and so now I can measure
> the venturi and jet and see how it is set up.
> Thank you to all for their help.
> Les
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Corvair Clinic
In my humble opinion, engines such as the corvair, VW and Subaru offer
some unique benefits to the homebuilder. They are simple to convert,
and affordable. The latest Kitplanes has an article about the
rebuilding of a Subaru EA-81 for less than $1,000. My complete firewall
forward for my Piet, the engine, belt reduction, mount, etc,
instruments, all new or zero-timed, with a complete rebuilt spare engine
to swap at overhaul time, ran me $4,000 Canadian. I can't get a
lycoming up here for anything less than twice that, and that would need
an overhaul. I will have a very quiet but powerful liquid cooled engine
with modern reliable ignition that I can get parts for anytime,
anywhere. If I can't figure out a problem, my local mechanic can help,
and at $30.00/hr vice 3-4 times that. I think BHP's whole focus was on
cheap reliable aviation for the backyard tinkerer.
Dave Rowe,
Victoria BC
Gnwac(at)cs.com wrote:
>
> Corvair Question,
>
> A friend of mine has done some research on the Piet after
> finding out that I was going to start building one for myself. He had
> asked me which engine I was planning to use and I told him that I was
> leaning toward the Con o-200. He said, based on his research, that
> BHP had believed that the Corvair was the best choice for my plane
> rather than the Con.
>
> To the Group. Did BHP believe that the Corvair was the best
> choice verse the others he had used? And did he believe it was the
> best choice only because he never had tried the Con 65 thru 100 hp
> engines?
>
> Thanks,
> Greg Menoche
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: tailwheel endorsement
Date: Apr 27, 2004
Finished up my endorsement today. Took me about 8 hours. I was getting
instruction in a SuperCub. those SuperCubs sure are a BLAST to fly!!!!
So now that I've got the endorsement there's no excuses to not get this GN-1 in
the air!
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: NAS3B carb
Date: Apr 28, 2004
Chris wrote-
>When you take the venturi out of the carb, it will have the size cast into
>its outside surface. It will either be a 1-1/4", 1-5/16", or 1-3/8".
Mine's the 1-5/16", which is (as I understand it) the next size up from the
one that was used on the A65, and supposedly it is for a nominal 90 HP
engine. It originally had the 1-1/4" but was changed out in the rebuild.
And DJ- yes indeed, the Super Cub is a hoot to fly! I was fortunate to have
flown one quite a bit when I lived up in Oregon, and put it into and out of
some mightly small patches of dirt and grass. Also put 'er on the top of
Table Rock a time or two (not saying exactly where that is ;o) I've never
taken off from an aircraft carrier, but I imagine it to be something like
the feeling of departing the edge of a sheer drop-off like Table Rock with
just barely flying airspeed, and suddenly being at about 3000 MSL. Love
that airplane!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN
Premium!
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Corvair Clinic
Date: Apr 28, 2004
From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
From conversations I've had with those who have some experience with
experimentals, it's always framed as a choice between saving your bucks
or saving your butt. The local FSDO guy said to go with Continental or
some certificated engine, the local EAA chapter president said likewise,
and an EAA Tech Counselor agreed, all in terms of reliability. Even Don
Pietenpol wasn't as enthusiastic about going Corvair as I had expected
he would have been. On the other hand the lowly C-65, which has to be
hand-propped for lack of enough power to handle the weight of a starter,
battery, etc., seems to cost way more than what you should have to pay
for it in a just world. As of now I'll probably go Corvair but with
reservations, unless I can find an affordable C-85.
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2004
From: Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: pietenpol engines
I would guess that Bernie would be of the opinion that you should use
whatever engine would give
you reliable power in the 65 to 100 hp range that you could afford that was
light enough to suit
the gross weight and the balance requirements of the plane.
I got lucky and found a very nice 65 continental with a partly built Piet
for the cost of the wood.
That was just good luck. This gives me some money to spend on some other
things for the plane
like a BRS.
If I hadn't got this deal on the continental I most likely would have a
used a converted car engine.
The other choice that I keep walking around is a Solent Plessey 60 hp gas
turbine (weighs about
55 lbs with a output at 6000 rpm). With a 2.5-1 planetary reduction it
should be all in at about
80 lbs. Well maybe next year!!!
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2004
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair Clinic
You forgot to ask the guy who drives one. I had a taylorcraft with the 65, and
now a sonex with a vair. I like the vair much better. they are both strong reliable
engines, the vair is way smoother.
Del
"Hodgson, Mark O" wrote:
From conversations I've had with those who have some experience with
experimentals, it's always framed as a choice between saving your bucks
or saving your butt. The local FSDO guy said to go with Continental or
some certificated engine, the local EAA chapter president said likewise,
and an EAA Tech Counselor agreed, all in terms of reliability. Even Don
Pietenpol wasn't as enthusiastic about going Corvair as I had expected
he would have been. On the other hand the lowly C-65, which has to be
hand-propped for lack of enough power to handle the weight of a starter,
battery, etc., seems to cost way more than what you should have to pay
for it in a just world. As of now I'll probably go Corvair but with
reservations, unless I can find an affordable C-85.
Mark Hodgson
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: pietenpol engines
Date: Apr 28, 2004
OK, I would like to hear more about this gas turbine. How do I get one? How
much does it cost? Can you throttle it? What is is made for or where is it
used in normal life?
BED
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: pietenpol engines
>
> I would guess that Bernie would be of the opinion that you should use
> whatever engine would give
> you reliable power in the 65 to 100 hp range that you could afford that
was
> light enough to suit
> the gross weight and the balance requirements of the plane.
> I got lucky and found a very nice 65 continental with a partly built Piet
> for the cost of the wood.
> That was just good luck. This gives me some money to spend on some other
> things for the plane
> like a BRS.
> If I hadn't got this deal on the continental I most likely would have a
> used a converted car engine.
> The other choice that I keep walking around is a Solent Plessey 60 hp gas
> turbine (weighs about
> 55 lbs with a output at 6000 rpm). With a 2.5-1 planetary reduction it
> should be all in at about
> 80 lbs. Well maybe next year!!!
> Les
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: pietenpol engines
Date: Apr 28, 2004
<http://www.technologie-entwicklung.de/Gasturbines/Solent/body_solent.html>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: pietenpol engines
>
> OK, I would like to hear more about this gas turbine. How do I get one?
How
> much does it cost? Can you throttle it? What is is made for or where is it
> used in normal life?
> BED
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 11:23 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: pietenpol engines
>
>
> >
> > I would guess that Bernie would be of the opinion that you should use
> > whatever engine would give
> > you reliable power in the 65 to 100 hp range that you could afford that
> was
> > light enough to suit
> > the gross weight and the balance requirements of the plane.
> > I got lucky and found a very nice 65 continental with a partly built
Piet
> > for the cost of the wood.
> > That was just good luck. This gives me some money to spend on some other
> > things for the plane
> > like a BRS.
> > If I hadn't got this deal on the continental I most likely would have a
> > used a converted car engine.
> > The other choice that I keep walking around is a Solent Plessey 60 hp
gas
> > turbine (weighs about
> > 55 lbs with a output at 6000 rpm). With a 2.5-1 planetary reduction it
> > should be all in at about
> > 80 lbs. Well maybe next year!!!
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805(at)msn.com>
Subject: pietenpol engines (& BRS)
Date: Apr 28, 2004
Les,
I too like the idea of a BRS but am wondering where it would go in a Piet.
Ok, let me take a break here and call myself all those bad names before
everybody gets on my case for committing the sacrilege of wanting a BRS
chute in a homebuilt airplane ...
$#*#*$&@), &@@($(#)...$
(@)#
)@!!
Ok, now that's out of the way. All I really want to know is where would be
the best placement for W&B purposes etc.
Thanks.
Eric
(The above name-calling thing was said all in fun by the way. I've just
seen people get reeeeeal opinionated on other lists about using BRS chutes,
and I'm just curious about the technical side of it at this point.)
>From: Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: pietenpol engines
>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:23:53 -0600
>
>
>I would guess that Bernie would be of the opinion that you should use
>whatever engine would give
>you reliable power in the 65 to 100 hp range that you could afford that was
>light enough to suit
>the gross weight and the balance requirements of the plane.
>I got lucky and found a very nice 65 continental with a partly built Piet
>for the cost of the wood.
>That was just good luck. This gives me some money to spend on some other
>things for the plane
>like a BRS.
>If I hadn't got this deal on the continental I most likely would have a
>used a converted car engine.
>The other choice that I keep walking around is a Solent Plessey 60 hp gas
>turbine (weighs about
>55 lbs with a output at 6000 rpm). With a 2.5-1 planetary reduction it
>should be all in at about
>80 lbs. Well maybe next year!!!
>Les
>
>
http://travel.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: pietenpol engines (& BRS)
Date: Apr 28, 2004
I saw a GN-1 with the BRS placed in the wing center section. A little bit
of the "tube" stuck out past the top of the wing but it was unobtrusive.
You would tie it into the front and rear center section spars and then I
would suggest running 1/8" cables from the unit down the sides (or maybe
inside of) the cabanes and terminate them at the lower longeron. That way it
would take an awfully large load to yank it from the airframe.... sure it
may damage the structure but it'll do it's job of saving your hide.
I have also considered the BRS. I would do it except it cost about $3000.
Alot to pay for something you probably will never use.... I really shouldn't
go there though cause I don't wanna jinx myself. :-)
The other solution is to do like they do in the Fisher line of aircraft.
Put it inside the airframe just aft of the rear seat. Have it pointed out
of the top side of the turtledeck. The turtledeck stringer that is "in the
way" of the aim of fire of the chute does not get glued to the formers but
rather just lays there and is held in place by the covering. The BRS
rocket/chute will rip right through the covering. Just be sure the mount
that sucker securely and use cables to grab onto other stronger areas of the
airframe.
Most importantly contact BRS. They will help you with your particular
install.... which is better than any advice I have listed above.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805(at)msn.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: pietenpol engines (& BRS)
>
> Les,
>
> I too like the idea of a BRS but am wondering where it would go in a Piet.
> Ok, let me take a break here and call myself all those bad names before
> everybody gets on my case for committing the sacrilege of wanting a BRS
> chute in a homebuilt airplane ...
>
> $#*#*$&@), &@@($(#)...$
(@)#
)@!!
>
> Ok, now that's out of the way. All I really want to know is where would
be
> the best placement for W&B purposes etc.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Eric
>
> (The above name-calling thing was said all in fun by the way. I've just
> seen people get reeeeeal opinionated on other lists about using BRS
chutes,
> and I'm just curious about the technical side of it at this point.)
>
>
> >From: Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: pietenpol engines
> >Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:23:53 -0600
> >
> >
> >I would guess that Bernie would be of the opinion that you should use
> >whatever engine would give
> >you reliable power in the 65 to 100 hp range that you could afford that
was
> >light enough to suit
> >the gross weight and the balance requirements of the plane.
> >I got lucky and found a very nice 65 continental with a partly built Piet
> >for the cost of the wood.
> >That was just good luck. This gives me some money to spend on some other
> >things for the plane
> >like a BRS.
> >If I hadn't got this deal on the continental I most likely would have a
> >used a converted car engine.
> >The other choice that I keep walking around is a Solent Plessey 60 hp gas
> >turbine (weighs about
> >55 lbs with a output at 6000 rpm). With a 2.5-1 planetary reduction it
> >should be all in at about
> >80 lbs. Well maybe next year!!!
> >Les
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://travel.msn.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
Subject: Re: pietenpol engines (& BRS)
Date: Apr 28, 2004
The big problem on a Piet isn't where to mount the BRS as much as it's how
to connect the cables to the airframe. If everything works right and the
BRS fires perfect, but the cable tears out of the wood you are in a real
hurtin way. You need hard points that can take the shock and suspend the
plane under the chute in a way that you will land safely. That requires the
harness to go to the engine mounts up front or the forward cabaines and the
aft cabaines or some hard point aft of the seat (if they are strong enough,
remember they weren't designed for the loads a chute would apply). Got to
keep in mind when the thing fires you don't want the cables to cut your head
off either.
This brings us back to the actual point. Why would you want a BRS on a
Piet? (MAN! None of the guys are going to believe I said that!) I would
REALLY have to be in serious trouble to not want to glide in under the wing
than a chute. The only case where I would want a chute is if I had a major
structural failure (don't know of that ever happening on a Piet) or loss of
a surface (hope you build and pre flight better than that!). If there was a
specific flight where I thought I would need a BRS I think I would wear a
reserve chute and leave the plane. Scary thought but so is a BRS.
OK there, you got me to agree that a mod to a Piet was not a good idea. Are
the purists happy now? ;-)
Hank
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805(at)msn.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: pietenpol engines (& BRS)
>
> Les,
>
> I too like the idea of a BRS but am wondering where it would go in a Piet.
> Ok, let me take a break here and call myself all those bad names before
> everybody gets on my case for committing the sacrilege of wanting a BRS
> chute in a homebuilt airplane ...
>
> $#*#*$&@), &@@($(#)...$
(@)#
)@!!
>
> Ok, now that's out of the way. All I really want to know is where would
be
> the best placement for W&B purposes etc.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Eric
>
> (The above name-calling thing was said all in fun by the way. I've just
> seen people get reeeeeal opinionated on other lists about using BRS
chutes,
> and I'm just curious about the technical side of it at this point.)
>
>
> >From: Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: pietenpol engines
> >Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:23:53 -0600
> >
> >
> >I would guess that Bernie would be of the opinion that you should use
> >whatever engine would give
> >you reliable power in the 65 to 100 hp range that you could afford that
was
> >light enough to suit
> >the gross weight and the balance requirements of the plane.
> >I got lucky and found a very nice 65 continental with a partly built Piet
> >for the cost of the wood.
> >That was just good luck. This gives me some money to spend on some other
> >things for the plane
> >like a BRS.
> >If I hadn't got this deal on the continental I most likely would have a
> >used a converted car engine.
> >The other choice that I keep walking around is a Solent Plessey 60 hp gas
> >turbine (weighs about
> >55 lbs with a output at 6000 rpm). With a 2.5-1 planetary reduction it
> >should be all in at about
> >80 lbs. Well maybe next year!!!
> >Les
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://travel.msn.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2004
From: dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Corvair Clinic
Just for info, the Subaru was designed and built as an aircraft engine.
Just because it's liquid cooled, doesn't mean it won't work fine in an
aircraft. Sorry to say but "certified engines" are made more unreliable
right from the start. How many cars have magnetos? Will an aircraft
spark plug last 100,000 miles, guaranteed? What about shock cooling?
If you want inexpensive, easy to work on, reliable, starts everytime and
is smooth and quiet, the Soob with a reduction drive is hard to beat.
Trike builders, hovercrafters and gyrocopter guys have been using the
Soob for over 20 years, and they love them. Check out some of the
buidler's sites, and websites, these engines are fast becoming the top
choice for 60-200Hp. We could have far better, cheaper and more
reliable certified engines if it weren't for the millions spent in
insurance/liability costs of making even the most minor changes. My 12
cents (Canadian)!
"Hodgson, Mark O" wrote:
>
>
> >From conversations I've had with those who have some experience with
> experimentals, it's always framed as a choice between saving your bucks
> or saving your butt. The local FSDO guy said to go with Continental or
> some certificated engine, the local EAA chapter president said likewise,
> and an EAA Tech Counselor agreed, all in terms of reliability. Even Don
> Pietenpol wasn't as enthusiastic about going Corvair as I had expected
> he would have been. On the other hand the lowly C-65, which has to be
> hand-propped for lack of enough power to handle the weight of a starter,
> battery, etc., seems to cost way more than what you should have to pay
> for it in a just world. As of now I'll probably go Corvair but with
> reservations, unless I can find an affordable C-85.
>
> Mark Hodgson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-& BRS)
Date: Apr 28, 2004
Give me a break...... When properly flying a Piet, you shouldn't be high
enough to use a stupid BRS... 40 pounds of excess CRAP. And for pete's
sake, Just how many Piet's have had in flight structural failures???? AND
how many will be flying into IFR conditions???
AND, AND AND???????????????????
Some people just have way too many thoughts or money and not enough flying
experience.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805(at)msn.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: pietenpol engines (& BRS)
>
> Les,
>
> I too like the idea of a BRS but am wondering where it would go in a Piet.
> Ok, let me take a break here and call myself all those bad names before
> everybody gets on my case for committing the sacrilege of wanting a BRS
> chute in a homebuilt airplane ...
>
> $#*#*$&@), &@@($(#)...$
(@)#
)@!!
>
> Ok, now that's out of the way. All I really want to know is where would
be
> the best placement for W&B purposes etc.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Eric
>
> (The above name-calling thing was said all in fun by the way. I've just
> seen people get reeeeeal opinionated on other lists about using BRS
chutes,
> and I'm just curious about the technical side of it at this point.)
>
>
> >From: Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: pietenpol engines
> >Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:23:53 -0600
> >
> >
> >I would guess that Bernie would be of the opinion that you should use
> >whatever engine would give
> >you reliable power in the 65 to 100 hp range that you could afford that
was
> >light enough to suit
> >the gross weight and the balance requirements of the plane.
> >I got lucky and found a very nice 65 continental with a partly built Piet
> >for the cost of the wood.
> >That was just good luck. This gives me some money to spend on some other
> >things for the plane
> >like a BRS.
> >If I hadn't got this deal on the continental I most likely would have a
> >used a converted car engine.
> >The other choice that I keep walking around is a Solent Plessey 60 hp gas
> >turbine (weighs about
> >55 lbs with a output at 6000 rpm). With a 2.5-1 planetary reduction it
> >should be all in at about
> >80 lbs. Well maybe next year!!!
> >Les
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://travel.msn.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 29, 2004
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-& BRS)
OK, I'm going to weigh in my opinion on this BRS.
In effect, I agree with Fred, but I'll be a little less flamboyant.
I don't need one, I don't want one, and would never suggest anyone building a
Pietenpol to incorporate one. BRS is a crashworthy device. It seems to me,
that 'Grounders' (folks who stay on the ground) always wish to have
crashworthyness devices incorporated into aircraft, because a crash is what they
fear.
Flyers will always opt for airworthyness.
I've done extensive research on Pietenpol accidents, and have not yet
found a structural failure caused by normal operation. If you build it to the
plans, do a thorough pre-flight, stay within the envelope, the Pietenpol design
is NOT going to come apart. Scud running is probably how a Pietenpol pilot
will get into trouble. If you fly into IMC without instruments, there is a slim
chance that you will survive...you are out of the envelope. An engine
failure simply means it's time to land...a Pietenpol lands slow enough to put it
in
a very small area, and walk away. Just keep the nose down, and stay away from
roads...too many spider webs around (electric / telephone wires).
Here are a couple of Quotes:
"If an airplane is still in one piece, don't cheat on it; ride the bastard
down." (Ernest K. Gann, author & aviator)
"If you're faced with a forced landing, fly the thing as far into the crash
as possible." (Bob Hoover - renowned aerobatic and test pilot)
"Always keep an 'out' in your hip pocket." - Bevo Howard
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler."
~~ Albert Einstein ~~
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-& BRS)
<03ce01c42d89$25d78fb0$ab31020a@CPQ17340127742>
I for one, don't plan on using one BUT, I can see
the usefulness since I live where there's a lot more
vertical real estate than flat. It's all covered in 200
foot pointy trees as well. This ain't Kansas, Toto.
http://www.hopeflightfest.com/photos.html
These foothills are an hour's drive from my house.
Clif
PS - Check out the 737 at the bottom of the page.
>
> Give me a break...... When properly flying a Piet, you shouldn't be high
> enough to use a stupid BRS... 40 pounds of excess CRAP. And for pete's
> sake, Just how many Piet's have had in flight structural failures???? AND
> how many will be flying into IFR conditions???
> AND, AND AND???????????????????
> Some people just have way too many thoughts or money and not enough flying
> experience.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2004
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-& BRS)
<03ce01c42d89$25d78fb0$ab31020a@CPQ17340127742>
This is where I was going. When we moved here, I did some research on local
balloon operators, I found there aren't any. When inquiring why, it's
because of the limited number of places to land. Which of us here with
'enough flying experience', flatlanders or otherwise, hasn't at some point
found themselves over trees and outside gliding range to an emergency
field? The BRS might give me an option I might not otherwise have.
That being said, does anybody know the approximate descent rates one gets
from a properly-deployed BRS? My question is, if I'm going to stick a tree
trunk up my butt, how far is it going to get?
Jim Ash - in the mountains in New Hampshire.
>
>I for one, don't plan on using one BUT, I can see
>the usefulness since I live where there's a lot more
>vertical real estate than flat. It's all covered in 200
>foot pointy trees as well. This ain't Kansas, Toto.
>
>http://www.hopeflightfest.com/photos.html
>
>These foothills are an hour's drive from my house.
>
>Clif
>
>PS - Check out the 737 at the bottom of the page.
>
>
>
> >
> > Give me a break...... When properly flying a Piet, you shouldn't be high
> > enough to use a stupid BRS... 40 pounds of excess CRAP. And for pete's
> > sake, Just how many Piet's have had in flight structural failures???? AND
> > how many will be flying into IFR conditions???
> > AND, AND AND???????????????????
> > Some people just have way too many thoughts or money and not enough flying
> > experience.
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 29, 2004
Subject: Re: Piet For Sale
As John Dilatush (and I) would say, screw the FAA, fly it anyway.
Rick H
Am offering NX41CC for sale. Have about given up on the Sport Pilot rule.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <margdick(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Bendix 20 series Mag
Date: Apr 29, 2004
Anybody out there got a Bendix 20 series magneto 10-51360-28 with impulse coupler
and drive gear. (for an A-65 cont.)
Dick Gillespie
Ft. Myers, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: BRS
gosh-- what a waste of e-mails. I hate to say it but if your Piet has a
structural failure then either you
are an idiot who has flown directly into a level III thunderstorm or you
built it with Elmer's Glue and balsa wood.
(which I would not put past some builders) Just glide the thing into any
400 foot long piece of real estate
and you won't be on the news, you won't have to carry the extra weight, and
you won't be out whatever the
BRS costs. Why don't C-150's, 172's, etc. have chutes then ? I side
with Fred Weaver---the voice of reason.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
<5.0.2.1.1.20040429065207.039aaec0(at)pop.earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-& BRS)
Date: Apr 29, 2004
Jim,
the descent rate is 23 fps (1380 fpm) Not a gentle touchdown but one that
may only give you a sprained wrist or ankle.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
does anybody know the approximate descent rates one gets
> from a properly-deployed BRS? My question is, if I'm going to stick a tree
> trunk up my butt, how far is it going to get?
>
> Jim Ash - in the mountains in New Hampshire.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2004
From: "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Piet For Sale
I think I'd be inclined to agree with you guys. When I lived in Alaska
I used to hear stories about bush pilots who were seriously considering
getting a pilot's license at some point.. ;) What's the worst thing
that could happen? They could ground you?
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> At7000ft(at)aol.com Thursday, April 29, 2004 8:31:02 AM >>>
As John Dilatush (and I) would say, screw the FAA, fly it anyway.
Rick H
Am offering NX41CC for sale. Have about given up on the Sport Pilot
rule.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Piet For Sale
Date: Apr 29, 2004
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
As John Dilatush (and I) would say, screw the FAA, fly it anyway.
Rick H
Rick, I suspect that he is doing that already! Just won't admit it!
John Dilatush
Am offering NX41CC for sale. Have about given up on the Sport Pilot rule.
March 21, 2004 - April 29, 2004
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-du