Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dv
April 29, 2004 - May 25, 2004
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
thats all sweet and fine but then what about liability insurance? I'm not so
sure insurance would cover property damage if you were unlicensed and smacked
your plane into someones house.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
As John Dilatush (and I) would say, screw the FAA, fly it anyway.
Rick H
Rick, I suspect that he is doing that already! Just won't admit it!
John Dilatush
Am offering NX41CC for sale. Have about given up on the Sport Pilot rule.
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
1.Well I sure livened up the list. I debated the BRS for over a year until
I ordered it last month.
The determining factor was a Cirus crash in the mountains just west of
hear. Instead of the
usual result of everybody killed in a mountain crash, they all walked away
with minor scratches.
Now I don't plan to cross the mountains in my Piet but there is plenty of
areas around here
where a emergency landing is going to be extremely difficult. A couple of
years ago there was
a engine failure near here and the guy and his daughter were both killed
by the trees they had
no way of avoiding. Sure lots of people survive dead stick landings and I
wouldn't deploy the
BRS if I felt I had another viable option. It is a last resort as you have
then lost control.
One other thing, if you encounter a wind shear and encounter structural
failure, yes it is
probably incompetent flying or maybe bad luck, I just want to survive it.
2. The BRS is not for everyone
3. Yes it costs about $3000.00 but that includes the straps that run down
the cabanes and
under the fuselage. These will be hidden under the fabric and concealed in
some light aluminum
covers that will be installed over the cabanes. It mounts in the center
section of the wing
where a fuel tank would go. As I am tall (6' 4") I am building mine as a
single place. With the
A65 I am going with a 13 gal. cowl mounted aluminum fuel tank.
4.The BRS weighs 26-27 lbs not 40. It is 7 1/4" thick so it does stick a
little out of the top of
the wing but I will reshape the center section to keep the airflow clean
5. Turbines: If you checked out the web site then you can sometimes find
new fresh overhauled
ones on Ebay. It is not a conversion for the faint of heart. This unit is a
twin spool type with six
combustion chambers and a built in governor on the gas generating section.
It will idle on 2
combustion chambers . Lots of issues to deal with and certainly will be
EXPERIEMENTAL!!!!!
I appreciate all the opinions on this site, even the ones that don't agree
with mine, it is what
makes this site so worthwhile.
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | hickpiper(at)misn.com |
please contact the helpdesk.
> I don't want to add fuel to the raging BRS fire, but I can't help but mention
a >thing or two on the subject. And sorry if this falls under "moral high ground"
I'm a hillbilly, and not quite sure what that means.
> I am torn on building the Piet...I've got 3 Corvair engines sitting in the
> garage with the plans on building
> a Corvair powered Pietenpol, but 3 years ago I lost my brother to a crash
> (certified aircraft). I don't know that
> I'll ever get to build and fly a Piet, and it's not because I'm afraid, it's
> because I know the feeling of
> getting that phone call in the middle of the night...the sick feeling of
> knowing a loved one is laying in
> mangled wreckage for hours while investigators are poking around taking
> pictures. I don't want anyone
> to go through that. To trust your life, or more importantly, a passengers
> life, to your abilities and the
> assumption that problems are going to occur at an optimum time is
> risky...and I'm not talking about major structural
> failures, I mean any failure. Wasn't it Poplar Piet that went down after the
> passenger pulled the throttle linkage off?
> I know that could have been avoided by better construction, but the bottom
> line is, stuff breaks, and not always at the best time.
> It's true that a BRS would be ineffective at low altitudes, but from what
> I've seen on NTSB reports, quite a few
> Piet crashes under 100 ft have been survived. If I was going down, even that
> low, I would give that handle a yank.
> Might slow you down a split second before impact and be the difference
> between life or death, or getting banged
> up a little vs. spending the rest of your life in a wheelchair.
> I know a BRS takes a little weight, are expensive, and I'm sorry to waste more
bandwidth
> on the subject, but I would take
> all the cussings in the world for being a BRS advocate, and give up
> everything I own to have my brother back...I wouldn't
> bat an eye at $4000. Imagine several years from now...one of the Piets that
> is just photos of wood and hardware on a website
> now, is flying. The pilot is confident enough he can take up a 5 year old
> for their first airplane ride...his parents watch,
> sure that this aircraft must be safe. They have to pass inspections, don't
> they? At 250 ft AGL the crank on the
> engine breaks, the prop comes back, mangling the tail feathers...How much
> would you give for a BRS now?
> I don't mean to be melodramatic, but when you hit the ground, you
> die...forever. If you want to ride it to the ground,
> that's your prerogative...just don't take anyone with you, and don't slam
> those too hard considering a BRS if they have the $.
> If I build, you can bet I'll have one. If my rambling helps pursuade on person
to incorporate one, and it saves one life..it will be worth it.
>
> Jon Jones
> Mo.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
Good point. What if he'd be declared nuts for doing something like
that? I wonder where that would go legally? I suppose my base line
assumption would be that if Corky were to apply himself to the side of a
structure via Pietenpol, then there probably wouldn't be enough Corky
left over to worry about it. I can't imagine the damage being very
extensive (to the structure, that is - Corky would not be salvageable),
and it might cause everybody else's insurance to go up $0.00003
annually. There would be a big ruckus over old people flying dangerous
airplanes and the Sport Pilot thing might go away. Oh wait, it's not
here yet and that's why he's in the situation he's in. I don't know,
because it is a complicated set of issues. Nevermind that the chances
of Corky (or me or any of us) levelling a farmer's market with a car are
significantly greater. Ultimately, it's the sort of decision people
make (whether they are aware of it or not) every day. It comes down to
what value a person places on the rule of law, the relevance of law, the
jurisdiction and authority of the laws and who made them, and personal
responsibility. I don't think I'd worry about Corky flying over my
house, because based upon his conversations on this list he seems to be
concerned about safety and operability issues and has some common sense.
I think he'd not fly if he didn't think he would be safe, and without
having met him I believe he is probably able to make that assessment. I
think the only reason he's not flying is out of respect for the folks
who make and administer the laws of this land. He probably doesn't
speed either, for the same reasons. I believe there are many, many
people who aren't as airworthy as Corky who are flying. I hope the
Sport Pilot rule happens before he gets NX41CC sold..
I am looking forward to Brodhead again...
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> djv(at)imagedv.com Thursday, April 29, 2004 10:44:35 AM >>>
thats all sweet and fine but then what about liability insurance? I'm
not so sure insurance would cover property damage if you were unlicensed
and smacked your plane into someones house.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
As John Dilatush (and I) would say, screw the FAA, fly it anyway.
Rick H
Rick, I suspect that he is doing that already! Just won't admit it!
John Dilatush
Am offering NX41CC for sale. Have about given up on the Sport Pilot
rule.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
<002f01c42e00$e2fe2280$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com>
| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
thats all sweet and fine but then what about liability insurance? I'm not so
sure insurance would cover property damage if you were unlicensed and smacked
your plane into someones house.
DJ
DJ,
Who can get insurance (even just liability) on a Pietenpol with an auto engine?
I have tried 3 companies and been turned down for just the reason of using
an auto engine conversion. Might as well, then, not have a license and current
medical either Huh?
Incidentally, I do happen to be legal, but really would not care if I wasn't!
My liability wouldn't change in case of an accident.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
As John Dilatush (and I) would say, screw the FAA, fly it anyway.
Rick H
Rick, I suspect that he is doing that already! Just won't admit it!
John Dilatush
Am offering NX41CC for sale. Have about given up on the Sport Pilot rule.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
<002f01c42e00$e2fe2280$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com> <001d01c42e51$0738ad00$9a290005@dilatush>
| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
Mark Jones (KR-2 extrordinaire)... or maybe it was Mark Langford... I can't remember
now, posted on the Corvair list a couple weeks back that he was able to
get insurance without difficulty on a Corvair powered KR-2.
It can be done... albeit you pay for it.
I just know that if some dude slammed his homebuilt into my house or my car and
he had no insurance because he wasn't even supposed to be flying, I'd be REALLY
REALLY REALLY ticked off. With the logic of "fly it anyways" why the hell
even bother with a private pilots license?? wanna fly a multi?? hell....don't
spend all that dough on a multi rating... no way man... just fly that twin.
Hey... how about taking up that Lear 45 for a quick spin huh?
of course I'm taking it to the extreme.....also keep in mind I live in a densely
populated area. maybe some back country farmland with not a person or property
within miles may persuade me to think otherwise.
thats my story and I'm stickin to it.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
thats all sweet and fine but then what about liability insurance? I'm not so
sure insurance would cover property damage if you were unlicensed and smacked
your plane into someones house.
DJ
DJ,
Who can get insurance (even just liability) on a Pietenpol with an auto engine?
I have tried 3 companies and been turned down for just the reason of using
an auto engine conversion. Might as well, then, not have a license and current
medical either Huh?
Incidentally, I do happen to be legal, but really would not care if I wasn't!
My liability wouldn't change in case of an accident.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
As John Dilatush (and I) would say, screw the FAA, fly it anyway.
Rick H
Rick, I suspect that he is doing that already! Just won't admit it!
John Dilatush
Am offering NX41CC for sale. Have about given up on the Sport Pilot rule.
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half
Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information
on an anti-virus email solution, visit .
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
Corky
If you get ramp checked without the medical, I'd claim that regs dont require
medicals for experimental as they dont for gliders etc.I have heard this from
various
sources- whether it holds up or not -dont know ( I did call EAA to get an
opinion - the expert I talked to thought the idea nuts -- but he wasnt a lawyer
)
Henry Williams (by the way if and when sports pilot goes thru I'll bet it
will be worded like "no medical is required except for the following conditions
1....,2....,3.... And those will be exactly my problems )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
Not here in Canada. The worst they can do
is fine you $1000 for each individual flight
they can prove you made in the previous
12 months. This is not much of a problem
for some out of the way farm or ranch. The
powers that be pretty much turn a blind eye
unless you do something stupid like flying
into your local airport for gas or flying near
builtup areas etc. One recent incident
resulted in a $250 fine only, but they will
do the nasty if the transgression is serious
enough.
Clif
>
> I think I'd be inclined to agree with you guys. When I lived in Alaska
> I used to hear stories about bush pilots who were seriously considering
> getting a pilot's license at some point.. ;) What's the worst thing
> that could happen? They could ground you?
>
> John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
It's important to note that when an aviator gets into trouble the threat he
fears isn't reprimand, fine or incarceration, it's loss of his ticket. The
FAA knows very well what is valuable to the pilot and THAT is what they
enforce with.
Hank
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
>
> I think I'd be inclined to agree with you guys. When I lived in Alaska
> I used to hear stories about bush pilots who were seriously considering
> getting a pilot's license at some point.. ;) What's the worst thing
> that could happen? They could ground you?
>
> John
>
> John Ford
> john(at)indstate.edu
> 812-237-8542
>
>
> >>> At7000ft(at)aol.com Thursday, April 29, 2004 8:31:02 AM >>>
> As John Dilatush (and I) would say, screw the FAA, fly it anyway.
>
> Rick H
> Am offering NX41CC for sale. Have about given up on the Sport Pilot
> rule.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | At7000ft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
DJ
I was not thinking of a zero time unlicensed person off the street jumping in
an airplane and flying. I was thinking more of people in my position which I
think matches many of the people on this list, that is people with hundreds to
thousands of flight hours (~2000 in my case) and no medical. I have the
drivers license already, so given that I have a piece of paper in my pocket that
says Sport Pilot going to make it less likely that I will fly my plane into a
house?
You are correct that the insurance issue could be a problem, everyone have to
make their own decision on that facet of it.
Rick H.
Mark Jones (KR-2 extrordinaire)... or maybe it was Mark Langford... I can't
remember now, posted on the Corvair list a couple weeks back that he was able
to get insurance without difficulty on a Corvair powered KR-2.
It can be done... albeit you pay for it.
I just know that if some dude slammed his homebuilt into my house or my car
and he had no insurance because he wasn't even supposed to be flying, I'd be
REALLY REALLY REALLY ticked off. With the logic of "fly it anyways" why the
hell even bother with a private pilots license?? wanna fly a multi??
hell....don't spend all that dough on a multi rating... no way man... just fly
that
twin. Hey... how about taking up that Lear 45 for a quick spin huh?
of course I'm taking it to the extreme.....also keep in mind I live in a
densely populated area. maybe some back country farmland with not a person or
property within miles may persuade me to think otherwise.
thats my story and I'm stickin to it.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | what are the broad head dates?? |
Hey guys,
What are broadhead dates this year?
Also, I was looking at some WWI photos and noticed that some of the german planes
with axle landing geat used long springs wrapped instead of bungee cord. I've
heard a couple people break their bungees, some too old, but one new stuff.
Anybody have any thoughts? It looked like the same dimensions as bungee, just
light spring instead. Would only have to worry about corrosion instead of
rubber rotting.
Also, the project I bought has no place for the lap belt. Where do you guys affix
it. Already gone over the shoulder harness deal earlier.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
DJ, and everybody else...
I probably should've included the condition that the pilotage occur
over non-populated areas. I don't disagree with you. If Corky plows
into the side of my house, then my wife's gonna be PO'd. I will suffer
through the consequences of that, happy in the knowledge that Corky
finally got to fly again and deeply respectful of his iron butt if he
makes it from Louisiana to Indiana in his Piet. Yes, it would be a
hugely difficult mess, but no more difficult than if someone from the
local flight school were to do it (someone there has a habit of
practicing 90-degree banks in a retractable Cessna at low altitude right
over my house and very close to a 500 foot radio tower). That's why I
have insurance. On a somewhat related note, there is no insurance in
the world that would make me want to fly over that Louisiana swampland.
I can't tell you how creeped-out I am about snakes...
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> djv(at)imagedv.com Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:26:21 PM >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | brs and insurance |
One final comment on the BRS debate:
1. Some of the objectors remind me of the auto industry in the 50's and
60's. In 56 Ford put in seat belts and their sales fell. Was it because
competitive brand salesmen said "Well you want to be careful buying a Ford
as they might not be safe considering they are making seat belts standard
equipment". So Ford stopped putting seat belts in 58. I wonder how many
people died unnecessarily by seat belts being delayed 10 years until it was
government mandated???
2. People should remember that liability insurance is for the survivors,
whether they are your heirs or the innocent victims you hit. I fully
sympathize with a pilot who can't pass medical and I will reach that age
all to soon. Hopefully your sport pilot rules will come to pass in a
reasonable time in a fashion that makes sense. In the meantime I will
register my Piet as a ultralight which will allow me possibly to reduce
those limitations when the time comes. My opinion is that if you are
allowed to drive a 25,000 lb motorhome down the freeway a 75 mph you should
be able to fly your 1000# Piet. Seems to me the risk to society is
considerably less.
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Cub brake master cyl - RH |
Dear Group,
I am needing a right brake master cylinder/pedal assembly from a J3Cub. (mfg.
by Scott) This is all I need to complete my brake system. Thanks in advance.
:)
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: what are the broad head dates?? |
Douwe,
Brodhead is July 23, 24 and 25...
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net Friday, April 30, 2004 9:41:02 AM >>>
Hey guys,
What are broadhead dates this year?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cub brake master cyl - RH |
I don't have the pedal but I do have a couple of cylinders I won't be using.....may
or may not work....maybe you could stop by and check them out? :-)
See you on Tuesday.....
-----Original Message-----
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cub brake master cyl - RH
Dear Group,
I am needing a right brake master cylinder/pedal assembly from a J3Cub. (mfg.
by Scott) This is all I need to complete my brake system. Thanks in advance.
:)
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fmetcalfe" <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: brs and insurance |
You cant register a Piet as a ultralight , Frist theres is no Ultrlight
Registeration other than EAA and USULA and That means nothing to the FAA.
Second a 103 two seat trainer exemption the aircraft has to be below 490
LBS, less than 10 Gal of fuel. so you will have to bulid it real lite.
You'll just have to not regester it at all and fly it illeagely.
From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: brs and insurance
>
> One final comment on the BRS debate:
> 1. Some of the objectors remind me of the auto industry in the 50's and
> 60's. In 56 Ford put in seat belts and their sales fell. Was it because
> competitive brand salesmen said "Well you want to be careful buying a Ford
> as they might not be safe considering they are making seat belts standard
> equipment". So Ford stopped putting seat belts in 58. I wonder how many
> people died unnecessarily by seat belts being delayed 10 years until it
was
> government mandated???
> 2. People should remember that liability insurance is for the survivors,
> whether they are your heirs or the innocent victims you hit. I fully
> sympathize with a pilot who can't pass medical and I will reach that age
> all to soon. Hopefully your sport pilot rules will come to pass in a
> reasonable time in a fashion that makes sense. In the meantime I will
> register my Piet as a ultralight which will allow me possibly to reduce
> those limitations when the time comes. My opinion is that if you are
> allowed to drive a 25,000 lb motorhome down the freeway a 75 mph you
should
> be able to fly your 1000# Piet. Seems to me the risk to society is
> considerably less.
> Les
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Cub brake master cyl - RH |
Got a left one I'll sell cheap (there are a lot more left ones around than
right ones, because they were used as the Johnson bar master cylinder in the
Tri-Pacer)
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cub brake master cyl - RH
Dear Group,
I am needing a right brake master cylinder/pedal assembly from a J3Cub.
(mfg. by Scott) This is all I need to complete my brake system. Thanks in
advance. :)
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | My Piet flies so much better with a passenger |
Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies so much better
with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle thing, and not just
the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly improves. With just me , it
is stomach churning, and the plane seems to pivot around me. With someone in
the front, the plane pivots further forward. And is back to climbing like a
standard Cub.
Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see this? Or is this
a known in the high time Piet guys?
Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty, I'm at the
light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't see this.
Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems with "stall"
landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
walt evans
NX140DL
Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger |
What you are describing is typical behavior in an aft CG condition. Have you done
a weight and balance and checked where on the wing chord the CG falls? All
the talk on the group about how many inches aft of the firewall the CG should
be and moving the wing fore and aft makes the hair on the back of my neck stand
up. THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE FIREWALL AND THE CG!!!!! THE CG
MUST BE IN THE CORRECT POSITION ON THE WING! Sorry to yell but the guys measuring
from the other positions and then don't have the wing in the original locations
are playing with fire. I know this is a touchy topic on the group but
I don't want to hear about one of you getting into a spin and not being able
to recover because your CG was aft of limit on the wing but the "correct" distance
aft of the zero datum, the firewall or the back seam of your aunt Gerties
bloomers. None of them matter if the CG is aft on the wing.
Hank (Let the flames begin) J
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: piet discussion
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies so much better
with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle thing, and not
just the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly improves. With just me ,
it is stomach churning, and the plane seems to pivot around me. With someone
in the front, the plane pivots further forward. And is back to climbing like
a standard Cub.
Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see this? Or is
this a known in the high time Piet guys?
Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty, I'm at the
light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't see this.
Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems with "stall"
landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
walt evans
NX140DL
Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger |
Walt,
There is nothing better than high wing loading to give a good ride in turbulence.
It is jsut like driving a car or flying the DC-9, load them up to gross and
they ride like a Caddy.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: piet discussion
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 9:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies so much better
with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle thing, and not
just the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly improves. With just me ,
it is stomach churning, and the plane seems to pivot around me. With someone
in the front, the plane pivots further forward. And is back to climbing like
a standard Cub.
Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see this? Or is
this a known in the high time Piet guys?
Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty, I'm at the
light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't see this.
Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems with "stall"
landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
walt evans
NX140DL
Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger |
Walt,
How much dihedral in the wing on your ship with the bad ride in turbulence?
Dihedral in excess of what is required can induce a bad ride. If you want, I will
unbury an old post of mine and repost it on the subject.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
What you are describing is typical behavior in an aft CG condition. Have you
done a weight and balance and checked where on the wing chord the CG falls?
All the talk on the group about how many inches aft of the firewall the CG should
be and moving the wing fore and aft makes the hair on the back of my neck
stand up. THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE FIREWALL AND THE CG!!!!! THE
CG MUST BE IN THE CORRECT POSITION ON THE WING! Sorry to yell but the guys measuring
from the other positions and then don't have the wing in the original
locations are playing with fire. I know this is a touchy topic on the group but
I don't want to hear about one of you getting into a spin and not being able
to recover because your CG was aft of limit on the wing but the "correct" distance
aft of the zero datum, the firewall or the back seam of your aunt Gerties
bloomers. None of them matter if the CG is aft on the wing.
Hank (Let the flames begin) J
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: piet discussion
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies so much
better with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle thing, and not
just the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly improves. With just me
in the front, the plane pivots further forward. And is back to climbing like
a standard Cub.
Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see this? Or is
this a known in the high time Piet guys?
Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty, I'm at
the light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't see this.
Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems with "stall"
landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
walt evans
NX140DL
Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cub brake master cyl - RH |
yep...
my left one is from a TriPacer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
<010801c42f99$1c4e1ec0$0301a8c0@Domain>
| Subject: | Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger |
Chris,
In answer to both questions,,,I built with zero dihedral, which has it's drawbacks.
Actually after carefully rigging the wing with all it's struts, didn't take
into account the "tightening everything" factor. So after covering and final
assy and cable tightening, I wound up with about 1/4" negative dihedral. Oh
well.
BUT,,,If I have the right fuel in the nose tank, in still air, I can fly hands
off for miles.
Guess it's the light wing loading. Just imagine if I built a Piet like the one
in Fl. that weighed in at approx 850# empty. It would be typhoon worthy!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Walt,
How much dihedral in the wing on your ship with the bad ride in turbulence?
Dihedral in excess of what is required can induce a bad ride. If you want, I
will unbury an old post of mine and repost it on the subject.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
What you are describing is typical behavior in an aft CG condition. Have you
done a weight and balance and checked where on the wing chord the CG falls?
All the talk on the group about how many inches aft of the firewall the CG should
be and moving the wing fore and aft makes the hair on the back of my neck
stand up. THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE FIREWALL AND THE CG!!!!! THE
CG MUST BE IN THE CORRECT POSITION ON THE WING! Sorry to yell but the guys
measuring from the other positions and then don't have the wing in the original
locations are playing with fire. I know this is a touchy topic on the group
but I don't want to hear about one of you getting into a spin and not being able
to recover because your CG was aft of limit on the wing but the "correct"
distance aft of the zero datum, the firewall or the back seam of your aunt Gerties
bloomers. None of them matter if the CG is aft on the wing.
Hank (Let the flames begin) J
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: piet discussion
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies so much
better with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle thing, and
not just the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly improves. With just me
in the front, the plane pivots further forward. And is back to climbing like
a standard Cub.
Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see this? Or
is this a known in the high time Piet guys?
Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty, I'm at
the light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't see this.
Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems with "stall"
landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
walt evans
NX140DL
Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger |
Hank,
After moving the wing back, my CG does fall in the last inch of the required envelope,
but they are accurate numbers. Guess with light wing loading, this is
the nature of the beast ( like Chris brought up).
The specs for CG, from Bernard are for dimensions on the wing, so in theory, where
ever you put the wing, if the CG is right on the wing,,,the CG is right on
the wing.
And as far as I know,,,the front seat is pretty much at CG. So I think the issue
is more weight than CG?
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
What you are describing is typical behavior in an aft CG condition. Have you
done a weight and balance and checked where on the wing chord the CG falls?
All the talk on the group about how many inches aft of the firewall the CG should
be and moving the wing fore and aft makes the hair on the back of my neck
stand up. THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE FIREWALL AND THE CG!!!!! THE
CG MUST BE IN THE CORRECT POSITION ON THE WING! Sorry to yell but the guys measuring
from the other positions and then don't have the wing in the original
locations are playing with fire. I know this is a touchy topic on the group but
I don't want to hear about one of you getting into a spin and not being able
to recover because your CG was aft of limit on the wing but the "correct" distance
aft of the zero datum, the firewall or the back seam of your aunt Gerties
bloomers. None of them matter if the CG is aft on the wing.
Hank (Let the flames begin) J
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: piet discussion
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies so much
better with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle thing, and not
just the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly improves. With just me
in the front, the plane pivots further forward. And is back to climbing like
a standard Cub.
Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see this? Or is
this a known in the high time Piet guys?
Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty, I'm at
the light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't see this.
Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems with "stall"
landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
walt evans
NX140DL
Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet flies so much better with a |
passenger
High-dollar gliders sometimes contain bladders in the wings that can be
filled with water, expressly to increase wing loading. It improves
penetration. Interesting to note that some of them are not rated to land
with all the water they can take off with; there's a dump valve system to
empty it out once the serious flying is over.
Jim Ash
>Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies so
>much better with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle
>thing, and not just the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly
>improves. With just me , it is stomach churning, and the plane seems to
>pivot around me. With someone in the front, the plane pivots further
>forward. And is back to climbing like a standard Cub.
>Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see this? Or
>is this a known in the high time Piet guys?
>Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty, I'm at
>the light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't see this.
> Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems with
> "stall" landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
>
>walt evans
>NX140DL
>
>Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
<002d01c42fba$fdfff890$2cc5fea9@home>
| Subject: | Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger |
Sounds like you are pretty close on CG if you located it based on the wing chord.
I get worried about the guys that say "the plans say the CG is XX inches aft
of the firewall and that's where mine is. Of course I moved the wing forward
yy inches and shifted the landing gear ZZ inches but dang it! The CG is just
where the plans say, XX inches aft of the firewall!" Many builders don't understand
the wing is the thing. You don't want to think of it as moving the
wing over the fuselage, think of it as moving everything else relative to the
wing. You have to locate the wheel and CG locations relative to the WING.
Glad you got it right. I still wonder about the change in pitch sensitivity at
lower weight though. It should BOUNCE more in rough air but the elevator sensitivity
shouldn't change. I need to go look at the factors that go into the
pitch stability derivatives (never did like dynamic stability analysis).
Hank
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Hank,
After moving the wing back, my CG does fall in the last inch of the required
envelope, but they are accurate numbers. Guess with light wing loading, this
is the nature of the beast ( like Chris brought up).
The specs for CG, from Bernard are for dimensions on the wing, so in theory,
where ever you put the wing, if the CG is right on the wing,,,the CG is right
on the wing.
And as far as I know,,,the front seat is pretty much at CG. So I think the issue
is more weight than CG?
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
What you are describing is typical behavior in an aft CG condition. Have you
done a weight and balance and checked where on the wing chord the CG falls?
All the talk on the group about how many inches aft of the firewall the CG should
be and moving the wing fore and aft makes the hair on the back of my neck
stand up. THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE FIREWALL AND THE CG!!!!! THE
CG MUST BE IN THE CORRECT POSITION ON THE WING! Sorry to yell but the guys
measuring from the other positions and then don't have the wing in the original
locations are playing with fire. I know this is a touchy topic on the group
but I don't want to hear about one of you getting into a spin and not being able
to recover because your CG was aft of limit on the wing but the "correct"
distance aft of the zero datum, the firewall or the back seam of your aunt Gerties
bloomers. None of them matter if the CG is aft on the wing.
Hank (Let the flames begin) J
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: piet discussion
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies so much
better with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle thing, and
not just the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly improves. With just me
in the front, the plane pivots further forward. And is back to climbing like
a standard Cub.
Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see this? Or
is this a known in the high time Piet guys?
Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty, I'm at
the light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't see this.
Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems with "stall"
landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
walt evans
NX140DL
Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
<002d01c42fba$fdfff890$2cc5fea9@home> <001501c43074$00686e00$daddf6ce@hjarrett>
| Subject: | Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger |
Hank,
No, the pitch sensitivity doesn't seem to change. I said in my original post
that the yaw was affected. But how you put it in the below post best describes
it,,,it BOUNCES more when it's lighter. It just plain "squirrellier" when light.
Might have to fly with one of those inflatable "date" dolls, filled with sand
:
)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
>>>> I still wonder about the change in pitch sensitivity at lower weight though.
It should BOUNCE more in rough air but the elevator sensitivity shouldn't
change. I need to go look at the factors that go into the pitch stability
derivatives (never did like dynamic stability analysis).
Hank
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Hank,
After moving the wing back, my CG does fall in the last inch of the required
envelope, but they are accurate numbers. Guess with light wing loading, this
is the nature of the beast ( like Chris brought up).
The specs for CG, from Bernard are for dimensions on the wing, so in theory,
where ever you put the wing, if the CG is right on the wing,,,the CG is right
on the wing.
And as far as I know,,,the front seat is pretty much at CG. So I think the
issue is more weight than CG?
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
What you are describing is typical behavior in an aft CG condition. Have
you done a weight and balance and checked where on the wing chord the CG falls?
All the talk on the group about how many inches aft of the firewall the CG
should be and moving the wing fore and aft makes the hair on the back of my neck
stand up. THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE FIREWALL AND THE CG!!!!!
THE CG MUST BE IN THE CORRECT POSITION ON THE WING! Sorry to yell but the guys
measuring from the other positions and then don't have the wing in the original
locations are playing with fire. I know this is a touchy topic on the group
but I don't want to hear about one of you getting into a spin and not being
able to recover because your CG was aft of limit on the wing but the "correct"
distance aft of the zero datum, the firewall or the back seam of your aunt Gerties
bloomers. None of them matter if the CG is aft on the wing.
Hank (Let the flames begin) J
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: piet discussion
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies so
much better with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle thing, and
not just the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly improves. With just
me , it is stomach churning, and the plane seems to pivot around me. With someone
in the front, the plane pivots further forward. And is back to climbing
like a standard Cub.
Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see this?
Or is this a known in the high time Piet guys?
Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty, I'm
at the light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't see this.
Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems with
"stall" landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
walt evans
NX140DL
Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
<002d01c42fba$fdfff890$2cc5fea9@home> <001501c43074$00686e00$daddf6ce@hjarrett>
<001601c43077$fef86670$2cc5fea9@home>
| Subject: | Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger |
Use water, closer to the weight of a body and MUCH easier to get out of the front
pit by running a drain line. I can see it now, "Hey Walt, you musta scared
that lady in your plane pretty bad. She hasn't moved for a half hour except
to slowly slump in the seat and she is STILL wetting the ramp!"
Hank
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Hank,
No, the pitch sensitivity doesn't seem to change. I said in my original post
that the yaw was affected. But how you put it in the below post best describes
it,,,it BOUNCES more when it's lighter. It just plain "squirrellier" when
light.
Might have to fly with one of those inflatable "date" dolls, filled with sand
:
)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
>>>> I still wonder about the change in pitch sensitivity at lower weight
though. It should BOUNCE more in rough air but the elevator sensitivity shouldn't
change. I need to go look at the factors that go into the pitch stability
derivatives (never did like dynamic stability analysis).
Hank
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Hank,
After moving the wing back, my CG does fall in the last inch of the required
envelope, but they are accurate numbers. Guess with light wing loading, this
is the nature of the beast ( like Chris brought up).
The specs for CG, from Bernard are for dimensions on the wing, so in theory,
where ever you put the wing, if the CG is right on the wing,,,the CG is right
on the wing.
And as far as I know,,,the front seat is pretty much at CG. So I think the
issue is more weight than CG?
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
What you are describing is typical behavior in an aft CG condition. Have
you done a weight and balance and checked where on the wing chord the CG falls?
All the talk on the group about how many inches aft of the firewall the
CG should be and moving the wing fore and aft makes the hair on the back of my
neck stand up. THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE FIREWALL AND THE CG!!!!!
THE CG MUST BE IN THE CORRECT POSITION ON THE WING! Sorry to yell but the guys
measuring from the other positions and then don't have the wing in the original
locations are playing with fire. I know this is a touchy topic on the group
but I don't want to hear about one of you getting into a spin and not being
able to recover because your CG was aft of limit on the wing but the "correct"
distance aft of the zero datum, the firewall or the back seam of your aunt
Gerties bloomers. None of them matter if the CG is aft on the wing.
Hank (Let the flames begin) J
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: piet discussion
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies so
much better with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle thing,
and not just the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly improves. With just
me , it is stomach churning, and the plane seems to pivot around me. With
someone in the front, the plane pivots further forward. And is back to climbing
like a standard Cub.
Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see this?
Or is this a known in the high time Piet guys?
Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty, I'm
at the light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't see
this.
Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems with
"stall" landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
walt evans
NX140DL
Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
<002d01c42fba$fdfff890$2cc5fea9@home> <001501c43074$00686e00$daddf6ce@hjarrett>
<001601c43077$fef86670$2cc5fea9@home> <002f01c4308b$8a7494e0$f8ddf6ce@hjarrett>
| Subject: | Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger |
Hank,
Great idea!!! :
)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Use water, closer to the weight of a body and MUCH easier to get out of the front
pit by running a drain line. I can see it now, "Hey Walt, you musta scared
that lady in your plane pretty bad. She hasn't moved for a half hour except
to slowly slump in the seat and she is STILL wetting the ramp!"
Hank
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Hank,
No, the pitch sensitivity doesn't seem to change. I said in my original
post that the yaw was affected. But how you put it in the below post best describes
it,,,it BOUNCES more when it's lighter. It just plain "squirrellier" when
light.
Might have to fly with one of those inflatable "date" dolls, filled with sand
:
)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
>>>> I still wonder about the change in pitch sensitivity at lower weight
though. It should BOUNCE more in rough air but the elevator sensitivity shouldn't
change. I need to go look at the factors that go into the pitch stability
derivatives (never did like dynamic stability analysis).
Hank
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Hank,
After moving the wing back, my CG does fall in the last inch of the required
envelope, but they are accurate numbers. Guess with light wing loading,
this is the nature of the beast ( like Chris brought up).
The specs for CG, from Bernard are for dimensions on the wing, so in theory,
where ever you put the wing, if the CG is right on the wing,,,the CG is
right on the wing.
And as far as I know,,,the front seat is pretty much at CG. So I think
the issue is more weight than CG?
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
What you are describing is typical behavior in an aft CG condition.
Have you done a weight and balance and checked where on the wing chord the CG
falls? All the talk on the group about how many inches aft of the firewall the
CG should be and moving the wing fore and aft makes the hair on the back of
my neck stand up. THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE FIREWALL AND THE CG!!!!!
THE CG MUST BE IN THE CORRECT POSITION ON THE WING! Sorry to yell but the
guys measuring from the other positions and then don't have the wing in the original
locations are playing with fire. I know this is a touchy topic on the
group but I don't want to hear about one of you getting into a spin and not being
able to recover because your CG was aft of limit on the wing but the "correct"
distance aft of the zero datum, the firewall or the back seam of your aunt
Gerties bloomers. None of them matter if the CG is aft on the wing.
Hank (Let the flames begin) J
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: piet discussion
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies
so much better with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle thing,
and not just the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly improves. With
just me , it is stomach churning, and the plane seems to pivot around me. With
someone in the front, the plane pivots further forward. And is back to climbing
like a standard Cub.
Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see this?
Or is this a known in the high time Piet guys?
Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty,
I'm at the light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't see
this.
Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems with
"stall" landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
walt evans
NX140DL
Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
<002d01c42fba$fdfff890$2cc5fea9@home> <001501c43074$00686e00$daddf6ce@hjarrett>
<001601c43077$fef86670$2cc5fea9@home> <002f01c4308b$8a7494e0$f8ddf6ce@hjarrett>
<001d01c430a0$23a62c50$2cc5fea9@home>
| Subject: | Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger |
Get a "blow-up" doll that is fuel proof and the possibilities boggle the mind!
"MAN!!! Walt must have that sucker REALLY LEANED! He's had her up there for HOURS!"
OR...
Want to try for an Atlantic crossing? It would sure take a lot out of your "passenger".
Hank (Sick mind here)J
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Hank,
Great idea!!! :
)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Use water, closer to the weight of a body and MUCH easier to get out of the
front pit by running a drain line. I can see it now, "Hey Walt, you musta scared
that lady in your plane pretty bad. She hasn't moved for a half hour except
to slowly slump in the seat and she is STILL wetting the ramp!"
Hank
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Hank,
No, the pitch sensitivity doesn't seem to change. I said in my original
post that the yaw was affected. But how you put it in the below post best describes
it,,,it BOUNCES more when it's lighter. It just plain "squirrellier"
when light.
Might have to fly with one of those inflatable "date" dolls, filled with
sand :
)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
>>>> I still wonder about the change in pitch sensitivity at lower weight
though. It should BOUNCE more in rough air but the elevator sensitivity shouldn't
change. I need to go look at the factors that go into the pitch stability
derivatives (never did like dynamic stability analysis).
Hank
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Hank,
After moving the wing back, my CG does fall in the last inch of the required
envelope, but they are accurate numbers. Guess with light wing loading,
this is the nature of the beast ( like Chris brought up).
The specs for CG, from Bernard are for dimensions on the wing, so in
theory, where ever you put the wing, if the CG is right on the wing,,,the CG is
right on the wing.
And as far as I know,,,the front seat is pretty much at CG. So I think
the issue is more weight than CG?
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
What you are describing is typical behavior in an aft CG condition.
Have you done a weight and balance and checked where on the wing chord the CG
falls? All the talk on the group about how many inches aft of the firewall
the CG should be and moving the wing fore and aft makes the hair on the back of
my neck stand up. THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE FIREWALL AND THE CG!!!!!
THE CG MUST BE IN THE CORRECT POSITION ON THE WING! Sorry to yell but the
guys measuring from the other positions and then don't have the wing in the
original locations are playing with fire. I know this is a touchy topic on the
group but I don't want to hear about one of you getting into a spin and not
being able to recover because your CG was aft of limit on the wing but the "correct"
distance aft of the zero datum, the firewall or the back seam of your
aunt Gerties bloomers. None of them matter if the CG is aft on the wing.
Hank (Let the flames begin) J
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: piet discussion
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies
so much better with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle thing,
and not just the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly improves. With
just me , it is stomach churning, and the plane seems to pivot around me. With
someone in the front, the plane pivots further forward. And is back to climbing
like a standard Cub.
Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see
this? Or is this a known in the high time Piet guys?
Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty,
I'm at the light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't
see this.
Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems
with "stall" landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
walt evans
NX140DL
Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | PIET AS A ULTRALIGHT |
Hi fmetcalfe
Actually in Canada where I live the ultralight limitation is 1200# max
gross and to fly that I don't need a annual medical.
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger |
<010401c42f96$f6183d00$f6ddf6ce@hjarrett>
<010801c42f99$1c4e1ec0$0301a8c0@Domain> <001b01c42fb6$fa207140$2cc5fea9@home>
Well, you're in good company Walt. Didn't the
Wrights use negative dihedral? :-) :-)
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Chris,
In answer to both questions,,,I built with zero dihedral, which has it's drawbacks.
Actually after carefully rigging the wing with all it's struts, didn't
take into account the "tightening everything" factor. So after covering and final
assy and cable tightening, I wound up with about 1/4" negative dihedral.
Oh well.
BUT,,,If I have the right fuel in the nose tank, in still air, I can fly hands
off for miles.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
<010401c42f96$f6183d00$f6ddf6ce@hjarrett>
<002d01c42fba$fdfff890$2cc5fea9@home>
<001501c43074$00686e00$daddf6ce@hjarrett>
Walt-- You are right on about the Piet flying better with another on
board. When I'm solo on a windy/turbulent day I can fly formation with a
Cub or Champ and those guys look like they are enjoying the ride with no
problems. In the mean time I'm bouncing away, all over the place. You
try to explain why you aren't flying on certain days and the other guys
poo-poo it.......but they are not the ones who have to endure the rough
ride.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fmetcalfe" <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PIET AS A ULTRALIGHT |
Yes I know that there are several countries that have been way ahead of the
US in rules and regs in this area. The new sport pilot will come in real
close to what you guys have had for a long time.
Our 103 Rules for ultralight will stay the same, No license or medical
required but the plane has to be under 254 lbs, one seat and under 5 gal of
fuel. We could operate a two seat aircraft under 490 lbs for training only
with a FAA exemption.
There are alot of people waiting for sport. this will stop the need for
medical and put alot of guys back in the air.
Thanks for the update
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: PIET AS A ULTRALIGHT
>
> Hi fmetcalfe
> Actually in Canada where I live the ultralight limitation is 1200# max
> gross and to fly that I don't need a annual medical.
> Les
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
<002d01c42fba$fdfff890$2cc5fea9@home> <001501c43074$00686e00$daddf6ce@hjarrett>
<5.1.1.5.2.20040503100659.017fc008(at)popserve.grc.nasa.gov>
Mike,
Thanks,,,That makes me feel better!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet ride
>
> Walt-- You are right on about the Piet flying better with another on
> board. When I'm solo on a windy/turbulent day I can fly formation with a
> Cub or Champ and those guys look like they are enjoying the ride with no
> problems. In the mean time I'm bouncing away, all over the place. You
> try to explain why you aren't flying on certain days and the other guys
> poo-poo it.......but they are not the ones who have to endure the rough
> ride.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PIET AS A ULTRALIGHT |
Les and Group,
While it is true that anything with a maximum weight of 1200 lbs, or less,
and a power-off stalling/landing speed of 45 mph, or less, can qualify as an
ultralight aircraft in Canada, and can be flown with an Ultralight Pilot
Permit, there are some things that deserve comment:
1. The self-declared medical document contains a comprehensive list of
medical conditions and comparitively few individuals can truthfully certify
that they have never suffered from any of them--particularly after they get
older. A false declaration can result in a severe penalty, so beware! A UPP
is valid for 5 years unless, of course, you suffer from any of the
aforementioned conditions during that period. (There is no real assurance
that medical records remain confidential nowadays.)
2. The Ultralight Pilot Permit does not permit the carriage of passengers,
unless they, too, are licensed pilots holding the minimum of an UPP.
3. If your aircraft is classified as a Basic Ultralight (BULA), you must
wear a "hard" helmet (not a bad idea). But you are free from some other
equipment requirements pertaining to amateur-built and certified aircraft
categories (ELTs, aircraft checklists, handheld fire extinguishers, aircraft
first aid kit, etc.). These items are therefore optional, but desirable.
On the surface these seem to be reasonable requirements, and they are with
the exception of the medical one. As long as one is lucky enough to be free
from the listed medical conditions and can truthfully declare that this is
the case, all is well. But if one develops a medical problem, the Category 4
Medical will no longer suffice and the individual will have to pass a
Category 3
medical done by an aviation medical examiner, and it doesn't seem possible
to revert to the Category 4 medical status after this happens. So the
hapless individual now has to pass a medical that would qualify him/her for
a higher licence, even though only a UPP is desired/needed!
For about six years, I operated with a Recreational Pilot Permit until I
developed a medical problem listed in the self-declared section, and had to
"jump through hoops" and pass a Category 3 medical, which I managed to do.
So now I have my Private Pilot Licence back because there is absolutely no
point in bothering with the Recreational Pilot Permit (or a UPP, for that
matter) because the medical requirement "bar" has been raised. And now I
have to renew my PPL every year just to fly my Pietenpol which qualifies as
an "ultralight" in Canada. Basically, there is no difference in the medical
requirements between a Cat. 3 and Cat. 4 excepting the self-declaration
thing, and this compromises the feasibility of the Cat. 4 medical, the RPP
and the UPP in this country.
With the exception of the rather low weight (254 lbs) of the ultralight
airplane in the USA, they are on the right track when no pilot licence or
U/L aircraft registration is required to operate these machines. Hopefully,
the Sport Pilot ticket will expand this freedom--and I hope it doesn't get
screwed-up the way our RPP and UPP concept was. In this land, it always
seems to be a case of "one step forward and two back"! However, I guess "The
grass always looks greener over the other guy's cesspool."
Having been honestly involved in aviation for a long time (since 1948), I
don't like to see a breeding ground for outlaw pilots, but it can happen
because of blind over-regulation.
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Graham,
Thanks for that letter of 3:52 PM yesterday. Best thoughts expressed on this
list, in my opinon, in a long time. Wish we had you working for the FAA in our
country. I sincerely appreciate your wisdom. Thanks
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | cutting carbon fiber layups |
<000c01c42f88$2c514d80$2cc5fea9@home>
<010401c42f96$f6183d00$f6ddf6ce@hjarrett>
<002d01c42fba$fdfff890$2cc5fea9@home>
<001501c43074$00686e00$daddf6ce@hjarrett>
Dear Pieters, as Corky says.......do any of you guys know how difficult (or
easy) it is to cut say a hole, rectangle, etc. into
a piece of carbon fiber ? To drill ? This is all layed up and
cured. It's under a 1/8" thick, more like a fat 1/16".
thanks for helping a guy who tests materials all week on a
materials-related question !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
<002d01c42fba$fdfff890$2cc5fea9@home> <001501c43074$00686e00$daddf6ce@hjarrett>
<5.1.1.5.2.20040503100659.017fc008(at)popserve.grc.nasa.gov>
The reason you bounce when they don't is the slope of the lift curve. The
steeper the slope the harder the bounce. Of course there is no reason to
test the Piet airfoil since there is nothing to be learned about Pietenpols
and no one should ever consider making any changes to an already "perfect"
design.
Hank (Running for cover) J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet ride
>
> Walt-- You are right on about the Piet flying better with another on
> board. When I'm solo on a windy/turbulent day I can fly formation with a
> Cub or Champ and those guys look like they are enjoying the ride with no
> problems. In the mean time I'm bouncing away, all over the place. You
> try to explain why you aren't flying on certain days and the other guys
> poo-poo it.......but they are not the ones who have to endure the rough
> ride.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jake Nichols" <cowboyjake(at)insight.rr.com> |
I am starting my practice project and was wondering a couple of things about T-88.
First of all, what is the viscosity of the epoxy after it is mixed in the
correct ratio. I was using some and it appeared to be thicker than honey. I
was using a butter knife to spread it in a thin layer to laminate some stock
together and it took a lot of force to spread into a thin layer. The temp was
about 60 F so perhaps the cold had something to do with this.
To mix in a 50/50 ratio I would lay beads of the epoxy next to one another and
make sure they were the same length and volume.
The other question has to do with quality control after joining the parts. During
the lamination process, small amounts of the epoxy seeped from between the
individual sticks. After 24 hours these seeps were still slightly tacky. When
I used my block plane to begin rounding the leading edge, the epoxy was solid
and did not cut like it had any elasticity in it. In other words it was not
soft, just slightly sticky on the exposed surface. Is this normal or is this
a sign of an incorrect mixture? If it is an incorrect mixture, any idea of
which part had too great of a volume?
If you are wondering about my little project, it is a TEAM/ISON/what ever they
call themselves now MiniMax vertical stabilizer. They sell this as a starter
kit to allow you to see their plans, constuction techniques and materials. It
comes with the wood, T-88, plans and some hardware. Not bad for $30. I thought
this would be a good way to get my feet wet before jumping in on a Piet.
James Nichols
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cutting carbon fiber layups |
In a message dated 5/5/04 1:52:44 PM Central Daylight Time,
Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes:
<< Dear Pieters, as Corky says.......do any of you guys know how difficult
(or
easy) it is to cut say a hole, rectangle, etc. into
a piece of carbon fiber ? To drill ? This is all layed up and
cured. It's under a 1/8" thick, more like a fat 1/16". >>
Mike,
I have drilled, and cut, a lot of carbon fiber at work. The Hawker Horizon
has a carbon fiber fuselage, and stabilizers. To drill, we use 'com cut' bits
(composite cut). They have a small notch at the outer cutting edge of the
bit. A regular bit seems to walk, even when you start with a #40 pilot hole.
The relief of the bit is a little different, too. A regular bit only lasts
about 6 or 7 holes, then it needs re-sharpened. I suggest you step drill it, from
#40 bit. Carbon fiber is some Hard stuff !! Our hole saws don't have the
normal teeth, but instead are diamond tipped, so they don't wear out so quick.
The sabre saw blades are diamond tipped, too. Be very careful about the
dust. The fibers it makes are so fine, that they easily get in the pores of your
skin, or lungs. You could use normal cutting tools, if you only have one or
two holes to do, but be careful not to walk the bit. If you're building a
Carbon Fiber Pietenpol, I'm never going to speak to you again !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Sounds like your T-88 worked about like mine. It is pretty thick, but will
flow quite a bit in the 12 hours or so it takes to cure. it is pretty good
glue, and does not make the mess that Resorcinol does, but I still prefer
resorcinol for structural joints. I used T-88 in places where I didn't have
an exact fit, or where the squeezed out glue would show, such as in the
cockpit area.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jake Nichols
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88
I am starting my practice project and was wondering a couple of things about
T-88. First of all, what is the viscosity of the epoxy after it is mixed in
the correct ratio. I was using some and it appeared to be thicker than
honey. I was using a butter knife to spread it in a thin layer to laminate
some stock together and it took a lot of force to spread into a thin layer.
The temp was about 60 F so perhaps the cold had something to do with this.
To mix in a 50/50 ratio I would lay beads of the epoxy next to one another
and make sure they were the same length and volume.
The other question has to do with quality control after joining the parts.
During the lamination process, small amounts of the epoxy seeped from
between the individual sticks. After 24 hours these seeps were still
slightly tacky. When I used my block plane to begin rounding the leading
edge, the epoxy was solid and did not cut like it had any elasticity in it.
In other words it was not soft, just slightly sticky on the exposed surface.
Is this normal or is this a sign of an incorrect mixture? If it is an
incorrect mixture, any idea of which part had too great of a volume?
If you are wondering about my little project, it is a TEAM/ISON/what ever
they call themselves now MiniMax vertical stabilizer. They sell this as a
starter kit to allow you to see their plans, constuction techniques and
materials. It comes with the wood, T-88, plans and some hardware. Not bad
for $30. I thought this would be a good way to get my feet wet before
jumping in on a Piet.
James Nichols
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 5/5/04 6:52:09 PM Central Daylight Time,
hjarrett(at)hroads.net writes:
<< The reason you bounce when they don't is the slope of the lift curve. The
steeper the slope the harder the bounce. >>
Hank,
Actually, I kind of like the bounce. Keeps me alert, and being at one with
the wing, she lets me know about every little anomoliy in the wind, and
thermals. I can predict the ride up ahead, by the color of the field.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
If you want to make it mix and spread easier, try putting it in the microwave for
10 sec or so. Abit of heat makes it quite thin. It will also reduce your
pot life.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Jake Nichols
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88
I am starting my practice project and was wondering a couple of things about
T-88. First of all, what is the viscosity of the epoxy after it is mixed in the
correct ratio. I was using some and it appeared to be thicker than honey.
I was using a butter knife to spread it in a thin layer to laminate some stock
together and it took a lot of force to spread into a thin layer. The temp was
about 60 F so perhaps the cold had something to do with this.
To mix in a 50/50 ratio I would lay beads of the epoxy next to one another and
make sure they were the same length and volume.
The other question has to do with quality control after joining the parts. During
the lamination process, small amounts of the epoxy seeped from between the
individual sticks. After 24 hours these seeps were still slightly tacky.
When I used my block plane to begin rounding the leading edge, the epoxy was solid
and did not cut like it had any elasticity in it. In other words it was
not soft, just slightly sticky on the exposed surface. Is this normal or is this
a sign of an incorrect mixture? If it is an incorrect mixture, any idea of
which part had too great of a volume?
If you are wondering about my little project, it is a TEAM/ISON/what ever they
call themselves now MiniMax vertical stabilizer. They sell this as a starter
kit to allow you to see their plans, constuction techniques and materials.
It comes with the wood, T-88, plans and some hardware. Not bad for $30. I thought
this would be a good way to get my feet wet before jumping in on a Piet.
James Nichols
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
<002b01c43313$dba6e680$0600a8c0@laptop>
http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.asp?SID=&page=20009&category=2%2C2070%2C33135&ccurrency=1
The mixing cups shown here are what I use. One thing is that the graduations are
on
the inside so they disappear in the liquid. I place a strip of masking tape up
the side
and mark off the level for each component and then fill both in the same cup till
the
SURFACE level of each matches it's line. Popsicle sticks are used for mixing and
spreading. I sand the end off at an angle with the disc sander then sand the face
at
a long shallow angle until the end is the thickness of fine cardboard.
Once you have spread glue on both faces and pressed them together, squeezing
out SOME of the glue, enough to know that the two glue surfaces have joined but
you still have a film close to the thickness of a piece of paper, then use the
fine,
angled stick to scrape up the squeeze-out and use that in the next joint. You do
not want to clamp this stuff tight! You have to have that film. I bought some 1
and
2 lb pyramid shaped fish weights which I sit on the joint if it is flat as in rib
or
fuselage side building. Rib gussets may "walk" a bit so go back and check after
doing all on a rib and reposition as necessary. It won't be much, if any. You can
use tiny brads or staples if you want. Just don't squeeze out too much glue.
Glue 3 or 4 test pieces from each batch with the leftovers. When they have cured,
break two in shear and examine the faces to see if the wood sheared. If you see
glue with only some wood attached you have a problem. I use 3" long 1" X 1" cutoffs
for this. Put glue on 1" of each and press together with 2" sticking out each
end,
one to go in the vice, the other to pull sideways with large pliers until the joint
separates. Save and label the other two.
Oh, what are you mixing on? Not cardboard or wood I hope.
If the link above doesn't work try this one and put 56z82.02 in the left hand
"item number" box
www.leevalley.com
Clif
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
If you want to make it mix and spread easier, try putting it in the microwave
for 10 sec or so. Abit of heat makes it quite thin. It will also reduce your
pot life.
Dick
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88
I am starting my practice project and was wondering a couple of things about
T-88. First of all, what is the viscosity of the epoxy after it is mixed in the
correct ratio. I was using some and it appeared to be thicker than honey.
I was using a butter knife to spread it in a thin layer to laminate some stock
together and it took a lot of force to spread into a thin layer. The temp was
about 60 F so perhaps the cold had something to do with this.
To mix in a 50/50 ratio I would lay beads of the epoxy next to one another
and make sure they were the same length and volume.
The other question has to do with quality control after joining the parts.
During the lamination process, small amounts of the epoxy seeped from between
the individual sticks. After 24 hours these seeps were still slightly tacky.
When I used my block plane to begin rounding the leading edge, the epoxy was
solid and did not cut like it had any elasticity in it. In other words it was
not soft, just slightly sticky on the exposed surface. Is this normal or is
this a sign of an incorrect mixture? If it is an incorrect mixture, any idea
of which part had too great of a volume?
If you are wondering about my little project, it is a TEAM/ISON/what ever they
call themselves now MiniMax vertical stabilizer. They sell this as a starter
kit to allow you to see their plans, constuction techniques and materials.
It comes with the wood, T-88, plans and some hardware. Not bad for $30. I
thought this would be a good way to get my feet wet before jumping in on a Piet.
James Nichols
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | tie rods vs cables |
Hi guys,
The guy who started my project made up tie rods for to .brace the center section
and landing gear (straight axle) instead of cables. By are beautiful and I'd
like to leave them but I was wondering if anyone knew the strenth factor versus
swaged cables because these end in threaded clevis fittings. I know rods
are used all the time as flying wires etc, but these are eight inch and I was
wondering if threaded ends like that could be a weak link. Like I said, the workmanship
is beautiful and the fittings are aircraft fittings.
Also, when building up my shoulder harness support structure, does anyone know
how many G's one should be trying to stop from flying forward?
Thanks!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | thermals in a Piet |
<002b01c43313$dba6e680$0600a8c0@laptop>
Chuck G. is right on about telling what his ride is going to be like by
what color the fields are ahead of him. It is so true. Sometimes my
biggest challenge is to keep the Piet at a given altitude. If you get
caught in a good one you'll be going up at such a great rate that you have
to throttle back and point the nose down just to keep level. On the other
hand there are the sink holes where you have to climb just to maintain
alt. It's pretty annoying since it also is generally accompanied by
turbulence biggie-sized.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
James...When you get to the point where you're mixing up larger batches of
the T-88, you might want to consider getting a pair of LARGE (I mean MOLY-SIZED
- 60cc) hypodermic syringes ..The kind with graduations on the side. I put
resin in one and catalyst in the other. Seals are good enough that I don't have
a
problem with oozing. I keep the two of them in a little rack I built of wood,
with the business ends pointing up. This makes for neat and accurate
metering...Carl Vought/Huntsville, AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tie rods vs cables |
When we were deciding on our anti drag wires, our engineer type said,"Well lets
see...6" tall wing x 14' long @ 100 mph, hummmm" than we worked out a formual
on paper then said" it is like someone pushing backward on the leading edge of
the wing at the tip at around 65 pounds of pressure. Looks like your wires will
hold about 2000 pounds....kinda overbuilt ain't it"
So we decided that after the big crash people will stand and say "man, that
plane sure is totaled, but those drag wires look brand new.."
Bottom line is, both solid and cable wires are used everyday with excellent
results. The choice is up to you. The important thing is to keep building.
barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tie rods vs cables
Hi guys,
The guy who started my project made up tie rods for to .brace the center section
and landing gear (straight axle) instead of cables. By are beautiful and
I'd like to leave them but I was wondering if anyone knew the strenth factor versus
swaged cables because these end in threaded clevis fittings. I know rods
are used all the time as flying wires etc, but these are eight inch and I was
wondering if threaded ends like that could be a weak link. Like I said, the
workmanship is beautiful and the fittings are aircraft fittings.
Also, when building up my shoulder harness support structure, does anyone know
how many G's one should be trying to stop from flying forward?
Thanks!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
James,
I think that using t-88 below 70 Degrees is a bad practice. I had a cold
workshop and found that t-88 can lay on the surface and not penatrate to the
pores of the wood. Some test pieces would seperate at the joint with only a
small (10%) amout of wood torn from the opposite piece. I think the manfacturer
recommends thinning for good wetting on some woods.
Howdy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Wing construction question for UK builders |
Hi Guys,
I am about ready to cover the front of the wing with 1/16th ply as noted in
Jim Wills plans. How are the fitting nuts/bolts attached? Are they welded to
the fitting or are inspection holes left in the ply for access to the
fittings?
Many thanks
Peter.
Wonthaggi, Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Well, here's a subject I can express an opinion on since my "Flying
Squirrel" is wood framed and is assembled with T-88 so I have some
experience with it. Living in Oregon when I did all the wood construction,
my workshop was rarely out of the 50's or 60's and I never had a problem
with the T-88 developing full strength and solidifying. As a matter of
fact, it was a relief to me to read that this is one of the benefits of T-88
(ability to use effectively at lower temperatures). The first time I mixed
some up I used hypodermics to accurately measure quantities, but that was
the only time. From then on I mixed it by eye and again, never had any
problems with joints developing full strength. The ratio is very important,
but not ultra-critical.
My recommendations go along with the others already mentioned: don't clamp
too tightly, make sure you get squeeze-out to ensure a full joint, make sure
your joints are held firmly in place so things don't creep or slide during
cure, and when you mix the two parts you should have something the
consistency of honey that you spread onto the surfaces to be glued. I use
plain, small, Dixie-type cups and plain wood tongue depressors to mix my
epoxy. You can pay more for these by ordering them from an aircraft supply,
but what for? After buying my first lot from one of the suppliers and then
seeing the very same thing in my local Costco store for 30% less cost, I
never went back.
I've had to "unglue" or remove things that were glued and cured, and I can
say with confidence that (with Douglas fir, anyway) my glue joints were
stronger than the wood fibers they were bonded to.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Boradhead accomodations |
Hi guys,
Any suggestions about where to stay at Broadhead? Was hoping there'd be a list
in the last newsletter, but no.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Official minutes of unofficial meeting |
The photo of the airplane behind the meeting shows built-up spars of plywood
web with apparently fir or spruce caps. Have these been described to the
list and does their design have some sort of an operational history?
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Official minutes of unofficial meeting
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Differance in dimensions between dated plans |
Fellow Pietenpol Builders,
I have asked this question before but had no one answer it. I am building the
extended fuselage version. On my fuselage plans at the rear and on top measured
from tail post location is a dimenssion of 18 7/8" On the original plans the
dimension given is 18" Is there any one who can tell me why the 7/8" differance?
I am ready to add the stringers and I need to know where to stop them
to allow for the horizontal stabilizer, to sit on the upper longerons.
Hoping to hear from someone.
Alex Sloan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Official minutes of unofficial meeting |
Wow, such attention to detail.....well, that spar design (I built it....)
has been used by a few Pietenpol builders. There are a lot of detailed
pictures, etc in my log on mykitplane.com.
Basically, it's the same size dimensionally as the routed 1" spar built by
Pietenpol, except that my web is not quite 1/2" thick. The built out top
and bottom (where the REAL loads are concentrated) are both 1" square after
the build out. I used doug fir/T88 but would probably use spruce/T88 next
time....
Not sure about what would qualify as an "operational history" except to say
that I personally know of at least one "single piece" wing Air Camper that
is flying today with such a design.
The calculations will likely show that building out the top and bottom to 1"
square would only require a 3/16" web (with vertical stiffeners at each
rib). On paper......
I'm not saying to do it that way, just that on paper it would most likely
handle the loads.
I did some destructive tests and this thing is strong.
(I'm using terms like "most likely" and "will likely show" since all this is
presented as just one possible way of building a Pietenpol Air Camper spar.
I obviously believe in the design MUCH more that that terminology might
indicate....)
Hope this answers your question (at least to some degree).....
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Official minutes of unofficial meeting
>
> The photo of the airplane behind the meeting shows built-up spars of
plywood
> web with apparently fir or spruce caps. Have these been described to the
> list and does their design have some sort of an operational history?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
> To: ; ; ;
>
> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:13 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Official minutes of unofficial meeting
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Official minutes of unofficial meeting |
Nice photo, Terry and thank you for the update on the NTPA meeting.
Jim-- I noticed that your front wing strut attach fittings are blue but the
rear ones are white. I sure would like you to explain this. I can't seem
to find that on the plans anywhere. Also, nice looking barstool and floor
fan behind you all.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Official minutes of unofficial meeting |
WAY to much attention to detail!!!!
Now I'm glad I picked up my old empty beer cans and dirty socks and other stuff
before anyone showed up!!!
I'm doing scallops in Ford Blue (against sort of a beige/cream color background)
on the LE of the wing.....and when I layed them out, one of the scallops goes
back into the front strut fitting area.....so I didn't want a beige strut fitting
sticking down out of blue fabric.....
Interesting that several people have noticed and commented (ok, harrassed me) about
it.....
I started on the wood for the landing gear last night and finished the pattern
for the front piece...wow, what a project! Cut a little, mark it again, sand
it, cut some more, mark again, back to the sander again, etc etc.... Thank goodness
I've seen a lot of good ideas for how to do this here on the list.....compound
angles are SUCH fun!
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Official minutes of unofficial meeting
Nice photo, Terry and thank you for the update on the NTPA meeting.
Jim-- I noticed that your front wing strut attach fittings are blue but the
rear ones are white. I sure would like you to explain this. I can't seem
to find that on the plans anywhere. Also, nice looking barstool and floor
fan behind you all.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Costs of Fabric Covering |
OK...I am going to throw this out there. Please hold the wolves back from attacking
me for beating a dead horse.
I am attaching a picture of a very nice little airplane. It was built by Hank
Stynes in Texas. On Tuesday, Max Davis met me and my wife in Grandview TX. We
drove out to Hanks place and had a nice visit looking over his nice Piet. Since
Max and I are both near ready for fabric, we got into a discussion about
fabric finishing. Ol' Hank (his hangar sign actually reads O'FART's HANGAR) talked
with us about his fabric job and relayed some of his difficulties. I was
never really clear on what he had used on his Piet, but he was not happy with
the finish. If he had it to do over again, he swears that he would use spar
varnish for clear penetration coat on ceconite... Then mix varnish with silver
powder for UV resistance. Then use house paint for color finishing.
Now I have already purchased 2.7 oz. fabric for my fuselage and tail. I have been
planning to go with the Poly Fiber process all the way through because I am
familiar with it, because I am confident I can achieve a nice finish, because
it is repairable and durable. But I understand that I am in for quite a bit
of $$ by the time I am through. Does anyone have a TOTAL cost for the a complete
Piet job with Poly-Fiber?
I am all for finding cheaper alternatives. But I am a skeptic when it comes to
departing from the tried-and-true methods. I have seen Bob Siebert's Latex paint
and it is beautiful. But I have often wondered how it will look five years
down the road. So I am writing this looking for some hard FACTS about the
pros and cons of various finishes that have been done. I want to hear from people
who have used Latex or other finishing products. I want to hear how good
or bad it has weathered the elements over time...how easy or difficult it is
to repair and blend. What about hangar rash, gasoline spills, patching, fading,
etc...
Somebody out there convince me that theres a cheaper and equal or better alternative
to the STCd fabric finishing systems. Otherwise.... I am sticking with
the PF process and my wallet will suffer the consequences.
Max...I know you're lurking out there and am sure you are interested in this too.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Differance in dimensions between dated plans |
Alex,
I just put on my thinking cap. What I did was , since the rear of the horz stab.
(which is flat and is the surface for the elevator hinges) is even with the
rear of the tail post, AND even with the rear of the vert. stab., Just lay the
horz stab. on the fuse even at the rear, and mark the fwd edge of the stab.
on the fuse. Then you can see what number is right. Think I left plenty of
room (like 1") at end of stringers, and after completely building the whole shebang.
I went back and added a block to bring the turtledeck nicely close to
the stab. Keep in mind that the opening will close up from both sides after
covering and painting !!!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Alex Sloan
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 1:17 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Differance in dimensions between dated plans
Fellow Pietenpol Builders,
I have asked this question before but had no one answer it. I am building the
extended fuselage version. On my fuselage plans at the rear and on top measured
from tail post location is a dimenssion of 18 7/8" On the original plans
the dimension given is 18" Is there any one who can tell me why the 7/8" differance?
I am ready to add the stringers and I need to know where to stop them
to allow for the horizontal stabilizer, to sit on the upper longerons.
Hoping to hear from someone.
Alex Sloan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Costs of Fabric Covering |
I used the thin dacron (1.? oz) with Poly Fiber. Second project with Poly
Fiber. Wouldn't use anything else. Got the dacron from AS&S ,,the economy
stuff for just over $3.00 per running yard. Everyone I talk to , even the
old timers tell me that ALL of the dacron comes off one loom. they take
the certified stuff off and then make the uncertified stuff. And for the
home builder, it's all the same. If you hold the uncertified stuff up to
the light, you can see dark lines every once in a while. That's where they
join threads. That's no good for certified. But you know darn well that
when the Poly Fiber gets into it, it's not going anywhere.
As far as the Poly top coats, I did mine right to the manual, and even at
$70.00+ per gallon of the non reds, I did my Piet for lots less than $500.00
I couldn't see putting house paint on a project that I put my life into for
years.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Costs of Fabric Covering
> OK...I am going to throw this out there. Please hold the wolves back from
attacking me for beating a dead horse.
>
> I am attaching a picture of a very nice little airplane. It was built by
Hank Stynes in Texas. On Tuesday, Max Davis met me and my wife in Grandview
TX. We drove out to Hanks place and had a nice visit looking over his nice
Piet. Since Max and I are both near ready for fabric, we got into a
discussion about fabric finishing. Ol' Hank (his hangar sign actually reads
O'FART's HANGAR) talked with us about his fabric job and relayed some of his
difficulties. I was never really clear on what he had used on his Piet, but
he was not happy with the finish. If he had it to do over again, he swears
that he would use spar varnish for clear penetration coat on ceconite...
Then mix varnish with silver powder for UV resistance. Then use house paint
for color finishing.
>
> Now I have already purchased 2.7 oz. fabric for my fuselage and tail. I
have been planning to go with the Poly Fiber process all the way through
because I am familiar with it, because I am confident I can achieve a nice
finish, because it is repairable and durable. But I understand that I am in
for quite a bit of $$ by the time I am through. Does anyone have a TOTAL
cost for the a complete Piet job with Poly-Fiber?
>
> I am all for finding cheaper alternatives. But I am a skeptic when it
comes to departing from the tried-and-true methods. I have seen Bob
Siebert's Latex paint and it is beautiful. But I have often wondered how it
will look five years down the road. So I am writing this looking for some
hard FACTS about the pros and cons of various finishes that have been done.
I want to hear from people who have used Latex or other finishing products.
I want to hear how good or bad it has weathered the elements over time...how
easy or difficult it is to repair and blend. What about hangar rash,
gasoline spills, patching, fading, etc...
>
> Somebody out there convince me that theres a cheaper and equal or better
alternative to the STCd fabric finishing systems. Otherwise.... I am
sticking with the PF process and my wallet will suffer the consequences.
>
> Max...I know you're lurking out there and am sure you are interested in
this too.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
One additional note.....do not use waxed
Dixie cups. Any wax will
degrade T-88's holding power.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88
"Oscar Zuniga"
>
> Well, here's a subject I can express an
opinion on since my "Flying
> Squirrel" is wood framed and is assembled
with T-88 so I have some
> experience with it. Living in Oregon when
I did all the wood construction,
> my workshop was rarely out of the 50's or
60's and I never had a problem
> with the T-88 developing full strength and
solidifying. As a matter of
> fact, it was a relief to me to read that
this is one of the benefits of T-88
> (ability to use effectively at lower
temperatures). The first time I mixed
> some up I used hypodermics to accurately
measure quantities, but that was
> the only time. From then on I mixed it by
eye and again, never had any
> problems with joints developing full
strength. The ratio is very important,
> but not ultra-critical.
>
> My recommendations go along with the others
already mentioned: don't clamp
> too tightly, make sure you get squeeze-out
to ensure a full joint, make sure
> your joints are held firmly in place so
things don't creep or slide during
> cure, and when you mix the two parts you
should have something the
> consistency of honey that you spread onto
the surfaces to be glued. I use
> plain, small, Dixie-type cups and plain
wood tongue depressors to mix my
> epoxy. You can pay more for these by
ordering them from an aircraft supply,
> but what for? After buying my first lot
from one of the suppliers and then
> seeing the very same thing in my local
Costco store for 30% less cost, I
> never went back.
>
> I've had to "unglue" or remove things that
were glued and cured, and I can
> say with confidence that (with Douglas fir,
anyway) my glue joints were
> stronger than the wood fibers they were
bonded to.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
=============================
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>
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>
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>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
While we're on this subject, can anyone comment on the tendency of the
"white" component of T-88 to crystalize and get VERY viscose. I've bought two kits
and after a time, the same thing has happened to both of them. Can the crystals
be put back into solution by heating the container in boiling water?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Laurits Larsen" <pietlars(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi:
I experienced the same thing and took the easy way out; just set the plastic bottle
in the sun for an afternoon. The problems was solved.
Currently welding an intake manifold for my 'A' for my new Solex 'Jeep' downdraft
carburetor.
Lou Larsen
----- Original Message -----
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
While we're on this subject, can anyone comment on the tendency of the "white"
component of T-88 to crystalize and get VERY viscose. I've bought two kits and
after a time, the same thing has happened to both of them. Can the crystals
be put back into solution by heating the container in boiling water?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Differance in dimensions between dated plans |
Walt,
You have reiterated what I have planned. Still curious as to "why" it is presented
as it is.
Thanks.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Differance in dimensions between dated plans
Alex,
I just put on my thinking cap. What I did was , since the rear of the horz stab.
(which is flat and is the surface for the elevator hinges) is even with the
rear of the tail post, AND even with the rear of the vert. stab., Just lay
the horz stab. on the fuse even at the rear, and mark the fwd edge of the stab.
on the fuse. Then you can see what number is right. Think I left plenty
of room (like 1") at end of stringers, and after completely building the whole
shebang. I went back and added a block to bring the turtledeck nicely close
to the stab. Keep in mind that the opening will close up from both sides after
covering and painting !!!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Alex Sloan
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 1:17 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Differance in dimensions between dated plans
Fellow Pietenpol Builders,
I have asked this question before but had no one answer it. I am building
the extended fuselage version. On my fuselage plans at the rear and on top measured
from tail post location is a dimenssion of 18 7/8" On the original plans
the dimension given is 18" Is there any one who can tell me why the 7/8" differance?
I am ready to add the stringers and I need to know where to stop them
to allow for the horizontal stabilizer, to sit on the upper longerons.
Hoping to hear from someone.
Alex Sloan
________________________________________________________________________________
The "white" component of T-88 does tend to granulate over time, but this is easily
corrected by placing the container in hot (not boiling) water until it liquifies
once more. This doesn't seem to produce an adverse effect on its adhesive
qualities, and it is a safe method. Hot air would also do the trick, but I
have found hot water to be quite effective.
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Budgell" <wbudgell(at)sympatico.ca> |
yes
-----Original Message-----
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com <Carbarvo(at)aol.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
While we're on this subject, can anyone comment on the tendency of the "white"
component of T-88 to crystalize and get VERY viscose. I've bought two kits and
after a time, the same thing has happened to both of them. Can the crystals
be put back into solution by heating the container in boiling water?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> (by way of Matt Dralle <nospam(at)matronics.com>) |
| Subject: | large lot of Corvairs for sale in IL |
Dralle )
I got this in an off-list email from former list member Robert Haines. It
may be of some interest to some of you.
-------------
DJ,
I found the following ad in a local paper here in southern Illinois. Pass
it along to the Peit and Corvair guys (I'm not on the lists anymore).
13-CORVAIRS, 2-VANS, 2-TRUCKS: 1-wagon, 8-2-4 doors, rough. $2,500 obo or
trade for all. Wayne City IL (618)842-2057
Robert Haines
Du Quoin, Illinois
http://roberthaines.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
Alex wrote:
>On my fuselage plans at the rear and on top measured
>from tail post location is a dimenssion of 18 7/8" On the original
plans
>the dimension given is 18" Is there any one who can tell me why the
7/8" differance?
Alex,
I did the same as Walt--placed the horiz stab even with the rear of the
fuse and then marked the forward edge of the horiz stab on fuse (the mark
was at 18 inches.) I made my turtle deck as a subassembly by temporarily
clamping the bulkheads to the fuselage and then glued the stringers to
the bulkheads. I will not attach the turtledeck subassembly to the
fuselage until I am ready for final assembly. This allows easier access
for sealing the wood and adding hardware, but what do I know--you may
already be close to final assembly. I have found (sometimes the hard
way) that it is often better to build things to fit rather than follow
the plans to the letter. The rudder is a good example--if you build it
to plans it will be too long, so you are then left with the choice of
shortening the rudder--or adding a little wood to the top of the vertical
stab--or letting the rudder hang below the fuselage a little bit--or
building a new fuselage to match the rudder. My choice was to build a
new fus........strike that.....I added a little spruce to the top of the
vertical.
Dick Hartwig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
"I use plain, small, Dixie-type cups" Oscar said.
I thought that the T-88 instruction say to NOT use Dixie cups as the wax in
them will screw up the epoxy bonding ability.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88
>
> Well, here's a subject I can express an opinion on since my "Flying
> Squirrel" is wood framed and is assembled with T-88 so I have some
> experience with it. Living in Oregon when I did all the wood
construction,
> my workshop was rarely out of the 50's or 60's and I never had a problem
> with the T-88 developing full strength and solidifying. As a matter of
> fact, it was a relief to me to read that this is one of the benefits of
T-88
> (ability to use effectively at lower temperatures). The first time I
mixed
> some up I used hypodermics to accurately measure quantities, but that was
> the only time. From then on I mixed it by eye and again, never had any
> problems with joints developing full strength. The ratio is very
important,
> but not ultra-critical.
>
> My recommendations go along with the others already mentioned: don't clamp
> too tightly, make sure you get squeeze-out to ensure a full joint, make
sure
> your joints are held firmly in place so things don't creep or slide during
> cure, and when you mix the two parts you should have something the
> consistency of honey that you spread onto the surfaces to be glued. I use
> plain, small, Dixie-type cups and plain wood tongue depressors to mix my
> epoxy. You can pay more for these by ordering them from an aircraft
supply,
> but what for? After buying my first lot from one of the suppliers and
then
> seeing the very same thing in my local Costco store for 30% less cost, I
> never went back.
>
> I've had to "unglue" or remove things that were glued and cured, and I can
> say with confidence that (with Douglas fir, anyway) my glue joints were
> stronger than the wood fibers they were bonded to.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | A nostalgic site WAY off subject |
Thanks Walt,
I was fortunate enough to remember those.
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
Dick,
Thanks for your input. I have yet to build the empennage. Wanting to
complete the fuselage before starting other things. Just needed reassurance
on how to handle the 7/8".
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: <rhartwig11(at)juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dimensions
Alex wrote:
>On my fuselage plans at the rear and on top measured
>from tail post location is a dimenssion of 18 7/8" On the original
plans
>the dimension given is 18" Is there any one who can tell me why the
7/8" differance?
Alex,
I did the same as Walt--placed the horiz stab even with the rear of the
fuse and then marked the forward edge of the horiz stab on fuse (the mark
was at 18 inches.) I made my turtle deck as a subassembly by temporarily
clamping the bulkheads to the fuselage and then glued the stringers to
the bulkheads. I will not attach the turtledeck subassembly to the
fuselage until I am ready for final assembly. This allows easier access
for sealing the wood and adding hardware, but what do I know--you may
already be close to final assembly. I have found (sometimes the hard
way) that it is often better to build things to fit rather than follow
the plans to the letter. The rudder is a good example--if you build it
to plans it will be too long, so you are then left with the choice of
shortening the rudder--or adding a little wood to the top of the vertical
stab--or letting the rudder hang below the fuselage a little bit--or
building a new fuselage to match the rudder. My choice was to build a
new fus........strike that.....I added a little spruce to the top of the
vertical.
Dick Hartwig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Weaver <mytyweav(at)earthlink.net> |
Chris.... The small Dixie cups you use for brushing your teeth don't
have the wax.
On Saturday, May 8, 2004, at 02:41 PM, Christian Bobka wrote:
>
>
> "I use plain, small, Dixie-type cups" Oscar said.
>
> I thought that the T-88 instruction say to NOT use Dixie cups as the
> wax in
> them will screw up the epoxy bonding ability.
>
> Chris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:04 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88
>
>
>
>>
>> Well, here's a subject I can express an opinion on since my "Flying
>> Squirrel" is wood framed and is assembled with T-88 so I have some
>> experience with it. Living in Oregon when I did all the wood
> construction,
>> my workshop was rarely out of the 50's or 60's and I never had a
>> problem
>> with the T-88 developing full strength and solidifying. As a matter
>> of
>> fact, it was a relief to me to read that this is one of the benefits
>> of
> T-88
>> (ability to use effectively at lower temperatures). The first time I
> mixed
>> some up I used hypodermics to accurately measure quantities, but that
>> was
>> the only time. From then on I mixed it by eye and again, never had
>> any
>> problems with joints developing full strength. The ratio is very
> important,
>> but not ultra-critical.
>>
>> My recommendations go along with the others already mentioned: don't
>> clamp
>> too tightly, make sure you get squeeze-out to ensure a full joint,
>> make
> sure
>> your joints are held firmly in place so things don't creep or slide
>> during
>> cure, and when you mix the two parts you should have something the
>> consistency of honey that you spread onto the surfaces to be glued.
>> I use
>> plain, small, Dixie-type cups and plain wood tongue depressors to mix
>> my
>> epoxy. You can pay more for these by ordering them from an aircraft
> supply,
>> but what for? After buying my first lot from one of the suppliers and
> then
>> seeing the very same thing in my local Costco store for 30% less
>> cost, I
>> never went back.
>>
>> I've had to "unglue" or remove things that were glued and cured, and
>> I can
>> say with confidence that (with Douglas fir, anyway) my glue joints
>> were
>> stronger than the wood fibers they were bonded to.
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> San Antonio, TX
>> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> > _-
> =======================================================================
> > _-
> =======================================================================
> > _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: A nostalgic site WAY off subject |
How about somebody injecting a verse about us airport kids?
Ah, those Lancs, Canso's, DC-3's and Fleet 80 Canucks.......
Clif
PS A couple of Piets too!
Thanks Walt,
I was fortunate enough to remember those.
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Costs of Fabric Covering |
I agree Walt. I did the same thing - PolyFiber all the way. Why scrimp and
take the chance of having house paint flake off in a couple of years? Yes
the PolyFiber products are expensive, but they are the best quality paints
I've ever seen, and their support staff is wonderful. Even spending the big
bucks for Aerothane, I will have in this project, which has taken me over
seven years, the same amount of money (about $14,000) that a two pack a day
smoker would spend on cigarettes in the same time frame.
Jack Phillips
Spraying some of that expensive PolyFiber stuff this morning.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Costs of Fabric Covering
I used the thin dacron (1.? oz) with Poly Fiber. Second project with Poly
Fiber. Wouldn't use anything else. Got the dacron from AS&S ,,the economy
stuff for just over $3.00 per running yard. Everyone I talk to , even the
old timers tell me that ALL of the dacron comes off one loom. they take
the certified stuff off and then make the uncertified stuff. And for the
home builder, it's all the same. If you hold the uncertified stuff up to
the light, you can see dark lines every once in a while. That's where they
join threads. That's no good for certified. But you know darn well that
when the Poly Fiber gets into it, it's not going anywhere.
As far as the Poly top coats, I did mine right to the manual, and even at
$70.00+ per gallon of the non reds, I did my Piet for lots less than $500.00
I couldn't see putting house paint on a project that I put my life into for
years.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Costs of Fabric Covering
> OK...I am going to throw this out there. Please hold the wolves back from
attacking me for beating a dead horse.
>
> I am attaching a picture of a very nice little airplane. It was built by
Hank Stynes in Texas. On Tuesday, Max Davis met me and my wife in Grandview
TX. We drove out to Hanks place and had a nice visit looking over his nice
Piet. Since Max and I are both near ready for fabric, we got into a
discussion about fabric finishing. Ol' Hank (his hangar sign actually reads
O'FART's HANGAR) talked with us about his fabric job and relayed some of his
difficulties. I was never really clear on what he had used on his Piet, but
he was not happy with the finish. If he had it to do over again, he swears
that he would use spar varnish for clear penetration coat on ceconite...
Then mix varnish with silver powder for UV resistance. Then use house paint
for color finishing.
>
> Now I have already purchased 2.7 oz. fabric for my fuselage and tail. I
have been planning to go with the Poly Fiber process all the way through
because I am familiar with it, because I am confident I can achieve a nice
finish, because it is repairable and durable. But I understand that I am in
for quite a bit of $$ by the time I am through. Does anyone have a TOTAL
cost for the a complete Piet job with Poly-Fiber?
>
> I am all for finding cheaper alternatives. But I am a skeptic when it
comes to departing from the tried-and-true methods. I have seen Bob
Siebert's Latex paint and it is beautiful. But I have often wondered how it
will look five years down the road. So I am writing this looking for some
hard FACTS about the pros and cons of various finishes that have been done.
I want to hear from people who have used Latex or other finishing products.
I want to hear how good or bad it has weathered the elements over time...how
easy or difficult it is to repair and blend. What about hangar rash,
gasoline spills, patching, fading, etc...
>
> Somebody out there convince me that theres a cheaper and equal or better
alternative to the STCd fabric finishing systems. Otherwise.... I am
sticking with the PF process and my wallet will suffer the consequences.
>
> Max...I know you're lurking out there and am sure you are interested in
this too.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | "A bad day of flying is better than a good day at work" |
Even though the skies were overcast and dreary, I got in one trip around the valley.
The trip was even good for a free airplane rinse.
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carbarvo(at)aol.com |
I go to a Pharmacy Supply Store and buy little calibrated clear plastic
cups...Carl Vought/Huntsville, AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | At7000ft(at)aol.com |
Sorry to be off topic but why would someone need a Dixie cup to brush their
teeth?
Chris.... The small Dixie cups you use for brushing your teeth don't
have the wax.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
teeth & overpopulation
| Subject: | Re: T-88 - now way, way OT - Dixie Cups, brushing teeth |
& overpopulation
your supposed to fill it with water and use it to rinse with when done. It
helps to conserve the water as most people leave the water running through the
brush/rinse phases.
at least that's what the county tells us out here in the ultra-dry desert where
we only have a limited supply of water, yet 7,000 people move here every
month... yes... I said 7,000. I wish all these new people would just go
away.... but thats another story.
This is like 6 degrees of Piet.
T-88 connects to Dixie Cups connects to water conservation connects to Maricopa
county growth rate connects to DJ Vegh's ire for newcomers to The Valley of the
Sun.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Sorry to be off topic but why would someone need a Dixie cup to brush their
teeth?
Chris.... The small Dixie cups you use for brushing your teeth don't
have the wax.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
I use a brush myself.
Clif, still working on my trailer spring tailwheel assy.
and whistling dixie. :-) :-)
Sorry to be off topic but why would someone need a Dixie cup to brush their teeth?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | T-88, Dixie cups, and North Texans |
Chris; my statement did specify "plain" cups, not waxed. I'm very careful
about any waxed products or waxes in my shop... epoxy and fiberglass do not
like wax. However, we have had plenty of rain here in south-central Texas,
our aquifer seems to be nearing its record high, and we welcome people who
want to move here (unlike DJ, who has to use a rinse cup rather than letting
the water run while brushing and avoiding his 7,000 new neighbors). Just
remember that San Antonio has received notoriety as being the sweatiest and
fattest city in the U.S., whether or not its inhabitants brush their teeth.
As opposed to North Texas, where people brush regularly, get more tornadoes,
and often have mysterious boxes in their shops. So, Jim- where exactly is
your shop and where is "home" for the North Texas Piet Builders? Can Texans
from other parts of the state visit your shop? And do you brush after
eating at the Purple Cow? (We won't even go into waxed vs. unwaxed dental
floss).
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | T-88, Dixie cups, and North Texans |
Let me see if I have this right......sweatiest, fattest, and don't brush their
teeth. I got a feeling that S.A.'s population may stay about the same,
if not drop off.
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: T-88, Dixie cups, and North Texans |
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to drag the North Texas
club into this......
North Texans and Dixie cups???....even THAT defies "6 degrees of
separation".....well, maybe not.
Mysterious boxes in my shop (located in Plano TX)....if you only knew! Come
to think of it, I'M not even sure what's in some of those boxes! I have a 4
year old son and a 6 year old son, so looking in unfamiliar boxes (before
they start to smell....) is just not a good idea....that box could be full
of roley-poleys, legos or half eaten pop tarts ("hop-tarts" as my 4 year old
calls them)....so who knows, I'M not opening any box unless I'm SURE what's
in it!
And I've decided that in all FUTURE pictures, we should include something
placed strategically in the background to give everyone something to REALLY
look for.......I'm intrigued with everyone's fascination with "things not
Pietenpol related" in these pictures.....but why not step up to the
challenge? Give em' something to hunt for!
Ok, just to move a tiny bit closer to REAL Pietenpol related stuff.....I'm
making the straight axle landing gear parts this week. Laminated some ash
last night (I was very careful to buy slightly undersized ash at the wood
place rather than getting 4/4 or 5/4 like I needed!) and will cut the front
vertical pieces hopefully tonite. I'm amazed as how heavy ash is but with
all the concentrated loads on the landing gear, I'm sure some
weight/strength is a good thing. I had struggled for weeks over how to make
the cuts and then Max Davis showed up with a compound miter saw.....duh, why
didn't I think of that? The job will be a LOT easier now than the
trimming/sanding/trimming/more sanding/fitting/etc I had in mind......
Ok, enough for now......
JM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88, Dixie cups, and North Texans
>
> Chris; my statement did specify "plain" cups, not waxed. I'm very careful
> about any waxed products or waxes in my shop... epoxy and fiberglass do
not
> like wax. However, we have had plenty of rain here in south-central
Texas,
> our aquifer seems to be nearing its record high, and we welcome people who
> want to move here (unlike DJ, who has to use a rinse cup rather than
letting
> the water run while brushing and avoiding his 7,000 new neighbors). Just
> remember that San Antonio has received notoriety as being the sweatiest
and
> fattest city in the U.S., whether or not its inhabitants brush their
teeth.
>
> As opposed to North Texas, where people brush regularly, get more
tornadoes,
> and often have mysterious boxes in their shops. So, Jim- where exactly is
> your shop and where is "home" for the North Texas Piet Builders? Can
Texans
> from other parts of the state visit your shop? And do you brush after
> eating at the Purple Cow? (We won't even go into waxed vs. unwaxed dental
> floss).
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Costs of Fabric Covering |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
In 1997 I used Sherwin Williams gloss house paint. No problems with
fading or cracking. It even spent two years outside. I'd do it again,
just not with an airless sprayer in 85 degree weather. Brush or roll in
cool weather, and it rivals poly fiber. As for repairability, I just
got my first chance to try it and I'll let you know. Minor touch-ups
have been invisible after a week. I did it because I was young and poor
at the time. I'd do it again because it has stood up fine, and it is
cheap.
Steve Eldredge
NX7229R
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Costs of Fabric Covering
I agree Walt. I did the same thing - PolyFiber all the way. Why scrimp
and
take the chance of having house paint flake off in a couple of years?
Yes
the PolyFiber products are expensive, but they are the best quality
paints
I've ever seen, and their support staff is wonderful. Even spending the
big
bucks for Aerothane, I will have in this project, which has taken me
over
seven years, the same amount of money (about $14,000) that a two pack a
day
smoker would spend on cigarettes in the same time frame.
Jack Phillips
Spraying some of that expensive PolyFiber stuff this morning.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
evans
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Costs of Fabric Covering
I used the thin dacron (1.? oz) with Poly Fiber. Second project with
Poly
Fiber. Wouldn't use anything else. Got the dacron from AS&S ,,the
economy
stuff for just over $3.00 per running yard. Everyone I talk to , even
the
old timers tell me that ALL of the dacron comes off one loom. they
take
the certified stuff off and then make the uncertified stuff. And for
the
home builder, it's all the same. If you hold the uncertified stuff up
to
the light, you can see dark lines every once in a while. That's where
they
join threads. That's no good for certified. But you know darn well
that
when the Poly Fiber gets into it, it's not going anywhere.
As far as the Poly top coats, I did mine right to the manual, and even
at
$70.00+ per gallon of the non reds, I did my Piet for lots less than
$500.00
I couldn't see putting house paint on a project that I put my life into
for
years.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Costs of Fabric Covering
> OK...I am going to throw this out there. Please hold the wolves back
from
attacking me for beating a dead horse.
>
> I am attaching a picture of a very nice little airplane. It was built
by
Hank Stynes in Texas. On Tuesday, Max Davis met me and my wife in
Grandview
TX. We drove out to Hanks place and had a nice visit looking over his
nice
Piet. Since Max and I are both near ready for fabric, we got into a
discussion about fabric finishing. Ol' Hank (his hangar sign actually
reads
O'FART's HANGAR) talked with us about his fabric job and relayed some of
his
difficulties. I was never really clear on what he had used on his Piet,
but
he was not happy with the finish. If he had it to do over again, he
swears
that he would use spar varnish for clear penetration coat on ceconite...
Then mix varnish with silver powder for UV resistance. Then use house
paint
for color finishing.
>
> Now I have already purchased 2.7 oz. fabric for my fuselage and tail.
I
have been planning to go with the Poly Fiber process all the way through
because I am familiar with it, because I am confident I can achieve a
nice
finish, because it is repairable and durable. But I understand that I
am in
for quite a bit of $$ by the time I am through. Does anyone have a
TOTAL
cost for the a complete Piet job with Poly-Fiber?
>
> I am all for finding cheaper alternatives. But I am a skeptic when it
comes to departing from the tried-and-true methods. I have seen Bob
Siebert's Latex paint and it is beautiful. But I have often wondered
how it
will look five years down the road. So I am writing this looking for
some
hard FACTS about the pros and cons of various finishes that have been
done.
I want to hear from people who have used Latex or other finishing
products.
I want to hear how good or bad it has weathered the elements over
time...how
easy or difficult it is to repair and blend. What about hangar rash,
gasoline spills, patching, fading, etc...
>
> Somebody out there convince me that theres a cheaper and equal or
better
alternative to the STCd fabric finishing systems. Otherwise.... I am
sticking with the PF process and my wallet will suffer the consequences.
>
> Max...I know you're lurking out there and am sure you are interested
in
this too.
>
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
teeth & ove...
| Subject: | Re: T-88 - now way, way OT - Dixie Cups, brushing teeth |
& ove...
In a message dated 5/9/2004 9:05:30 PM Central Standard Time, djv(at)imagedv.com
writes:
T-88 connects to Dixie Cups connects to water conservation connects to
Maricopa county growth rate connects to DJ Vegh's ire for newcomers to The Valley
of
the Sun.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
Doggone it DJ, here I was considering moving myself and the Piet to your part
of the world. I guess the reception wouldn't be all that great. Suppose next
month's population increase will just have to be 6,999 :)) Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
teeth & ove...
| Subject: | Re: T-88 - now way, way OT - Dixie Cups, brushing teeth |
& ove...
well.... come one now! If your a Piet lover I say the more the merrier! I
was primarily speaking of all the yuppie California transplants.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: Waytogopiet(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 - now way, way OT - Dixie Cups, brushing
teeth & ove...
In a message dated 5/9/2004 9:05:30 PM Central Standard Time, djv(at)imagedv.com
writes:
T-88 connects to Dixie Cups connects to water conservation connects to
Maricopa county growth rate connects to DJ Vegh's ire for newcomers to The
Valley of the Sun.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
Doggone it DJ, here I was considering moving myself and the Piet to your part
of the world. I guess the reception wouldn't be all that great. Suppose next
month's population increase will just have to be 6,999 :)) Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jake Nichols" <cowboyjake(at)insight.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Tolerances and T-88 |
I now have cut the pieces for my test stabilizer and am going to be using the T-88
to put it together. My question is, how large a gap will T-88 safely fill?
The largest is about 1/16th". Would T-88 safely fill a gap that large? When
I start building to fly I will be using better tools and able to keep the tolerances
much tighter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Costs of Fabric Covering |
Had to put my 2 cents worth in. Check Kitplanes, there was something a
whileago about latex paint. It has all the desireable qualities for
fabric. Just because something is expensive doesn't make it better. If
it's certified, it's expensive. Not necessarily quality, a lot of the
stuff on the local clubs 152s and 172s is garbage. But it's certified
garbage. If you built a Piet exactly the way it was designed, from
period materials, there wouldn't be much that would meet certification,
but it flew, and quite fine thank you. Do some research, find out what
others have tried, and make up your mind based on that. Build a test
piece, cover it, and try different materials. Bake it in the hot sun,
hit it with the hose, try it all and see what happens. Top quality
latex exterior house paint is flexible, UV resistant, and has long
guarantees. Industrial Plastics and Paints here in canada sells an
excellent polyurethane with flex agents, specifically for fabric
homebuilts. Because it's a derivative of a marine paint, it didn't cost
a lot to modify it for aircraft. Not certified, thus not expensive.
Remember the whole experimental thing?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Straight axle landing gear |
| From: | "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com> |
--------------------------------
Jim Markle wrote:
Laminated some ash last night (I was very careful to buy slightly undersized ash
at the wood place rather than getting 4/4 or 5/4 like I needed!) and will cut
the front vertical pieces hopefully tonite. I'm amazed as how heavy ash is
but with all the concentrated loads on the landing gear, I'm sure some weight/strength
is a good thing.
--------------------------------
Jim,
Are you making the entire landing gear out of Ash, or just the small piece on the
bottom that would act as a rub strip if the bungees broke?
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pietenpol Information List |
I've put together an 'Information list' for the benefit of builders, as well
as flyers to refer to. I'm e-mailing it out to everyone I have e-mail
infomation on. I've got about 66 'Infomation Lists' filled out so far, and if
you
like, I'll add your project to the list. Please take the time to fill it out,
and get it back to me, and I'll present the results at Brodhead this year.
Feel free to add any notes, or anything. If you 'click, drag and highlight' the
list below, then click 'reply', it should be on my return e-mail, and you can
just fill in each line, then e-mail it back to me. Thank you, and Happy
Flying !!
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita, KS
NX770CG
N Number -
Name -
Aircraft Information :
Type -
Total Time - hrs.
Short / Long fuse -
Empty Weight - lbs.
Gross Weight - lbs.
Engine -
Prop - X
Empty CG aft of Lead Edge - "
Weight of Primary Pilot - lbs.
Max Pax Weight - lbs
Inches wing tilted back - "
Cabane strut length - "
Cowling Material -
Covering -
Paint Process -
Wheels -
Tires -
Brakes -
Brake Pedals -
Tailwheel -
Bunji Chord / Springs -
Seat Belt Harness -
Survival Tools -
Adhesives used:
Ribs -
Wing -
Fuse -
Fuel Capacity:
Range - hrs.
Wing Tank - gal.
Material -
Cowl Tank - gal.
Material -
Alterations :
Fuselage Width - "
Wingspan - ' "
Engine Mount Length - "
Fuselage Front Extension -
Landing Gear Position - "
Other -
Wood type in various locations:
Ribs -
Rib Gussets -
Spar Size - X
Spar Material -
Longerons -
Longeron Gussets -
Other -
Steel type in various locations:
Cabane Struts -
Lift Struts -
Landing Gear -
Engine Mount Fittings -
Fuselage Fittings -
Firewall -
Other -
Airspeeds:
Vr (rotation) -
Vx (best angle) -
Vy (best rate) -
Vne (never exceed) -
Vs1 (stall) -
Build Time -
Date first airplane noises / /
Date Airworthyness Certificate / /
Date of the first flight / /
Address -
e-mail -
web site -
builder(s) -
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Searching for Pietenpol People |
Group,
I'm still trying to contact everyone I can, to see if they would like to be
included in the 'Pietenpol Infomation List'. I got most of these names from
Doc Mosher's 'Pietenpol Owner Directory'. It's a long list. Please e-mail me
direct, if you know the e-mail address of any of these people.
Names I need e-mail for:
Dick Alkire
Mark Anderson
Ken Anderson
Raffaele (Domenic) Bellissimo
Tom Brown
William Conway
Tim Cunningham
Owen Davies
Richard DeCosta
Bill Emo
DL Grammont
John Greenlee
Dennis Hall
Jeff Hill
Chad Johnson
Ron Kaser
Brian Kenny
Jim Kensella
Bill Knight
John Langston
michael list
Frank Lowell
Jim Malley
Tim Mickle
Paul Morton
Larry Neal
Frank Pavliga
Matt Paxton
Kyle Ray
J R Reber
Bill Rewey
Lee Schiek
David B. Schober
Bob Seibert
Warren Shoun
Brad Schultz
Mehlin Smith
Hank Stein
Randy Stockberger
Alan Swanson
Bill Talbert
Duane woolsey
Leo Powning
Simon MacCormack
Doug Reeve
Doug CGCGJ
Garth Upton
Leo Ponton
Claude Plathey
James V Vahary
Mike Lisenbra
Scott Liefield
Richard W Franklin
Michael A Jewett
Carl R Adams
Thomas e. Bowdler
Earl M. Klebs
John Davolt
Warren Timmerman
Leroy D. Swenson
Jim Hampton
Gary McArthur
Robert H. Meier
Richard C. Kohm
Robert H. Meier
Manuel Sparks
Blane E. Tower
Jerry Fogg
Steven T. Miller
Harry J. Winslow
Willard Talley
Lewis Jennings
Marvin Grout
William C. Hooper
Mehlin B. Smith
Lester M. Talent
Clarence Salmon
Douglas P. Rohde
Bud C. Johnson
Jobeth Barrett
Don B. Brooks
Thomas N. Terning
Robert D. Bell
Peter Smith
Stephen C. Bowman
Donald H. Reynolds
Edward M. Strackbein
Hayden Gildersleeve
A. P. Hurst
J. V. Mesdag
James K. Stark Jr.
Tilman Thomas Jr.
Dennis Hall
Clifford Kumm
Robert L. Linton
Kevin T. McDonald
William O. Smith
Randy W. Wieden
John D. Killian
Wilbur C. Graff
Howard B. Twibell
Paul E. Roy
Peter L. Korwin
Thomas Reedy
Edward M. Sampson
Vintage Aviation Services Inc.
Terry Brandt
Albert E. Koons
Mark A. Anderson
Sylvester K. Heller
Hans C. Egsgaard
John L. Kerr
Cass County Historical Society
Museum of the Rockies
12937 EAA
Edward M. Sampson
Vitalis Kapler
Larry & Ilse Harmacinski
Airpower Museum Inc.
Walter C. Bowe
James F. Hammond
Jack M. Maki
John H. Shoemaker
David Rezin
John J. Felton
James O. Potter
Donald F. Buckman
James J. Dean
David O. Harris
Gary Baglien
Lonnie L. Tucker
Air Museum City of Liberal
William E. Borie
Milestones of Flight Museum
Zara H. Royal
Marshall D. Welch
William J. Marshall
Maurice T. Way
Gary M. Gingrich
Kevin L. Helf
Handy D. Gilbert
Lowell J. Durham
Lawrence D. Becker
Bradford Schultz
Fletcher A. Burns
Derry D. Dettmer
Ernie W. Moreno
Rodney C. Eig
Richard P. Alkire
Steven C. Mourer
James W. Wallace
Edward M. Popejoy
Christopher Jacobs
Larry Harrison
Eugene L. Hershey
Gene W. Hoffman
William E. VanHorn
Joseph F. Sheble III
Fred H. Dexter
Herbert J. Townsend
Wayne D. Lord
Richard I. Hill
Donald P. Campbell
Michael E. Holcomb
Donald H. Walter
J. R. Reber
Pete Pittinger
Merle Smith
Warren Simpson
James Ballew
Flying Dutchman Inc. (Ted Brousseau)
Tom H. Mathes
Wilbur C. Volker
David W. Doherty
Donald R. Doherty
William S. Doherty
Paul S. DiMascio
Kenneth Perkins
Paul F. Hamilton
Texas Air Museum
Robert L. Ross
Gene E. Martinson
William J. Masson
Art Holiman
Kerri Ann Prict
David G. Briers
Edward J. Snyder
William F. McKee
James W. Tillery
Alva A. Owen
Mitchel J. Burns
Hiller Aviation Museum
Sue Wayne
Thomas H. Lubben
David A. Beckett
Joseph Sexton
Ray Fanchamps
Phillip T. Kapp
Allan J. Wise
Travis M. Gregory
Kelly D. Tippetts
Kim Stricker
Van R. Weinman
August A. Draffkorn
Joseph Vinciquarra
H. J. Judkins
Charles D. VanWalker
Paul G. Castine
Ronald C. VanKnowe
Dennis Davitt
Harold Straw
Alex P. Whitmore Jr.
H & N Aero Inc. (Bill Davis
Eaton C. Green
Mike Williams
Thomas L. Brown
Felix Quast
Richard Hatch
B. J. Powell
William J. Pratt
Terry A. Richardson
John W. Watson
Gilbert D. McKessy
Rick L. Anderson
Joseph W. Santana
Edward R. Mason
Liberty Flying Service Inc.
John D. Puent
Lowell C. Frank
Carl J. Pitcher
Jack B. Singer
Evertt G. Downey
Jan B. Mock
Monte M. Miller
Antique Airplane Corp. (Robt Taylor)
Charles H. Smith
Peter Kesling
Larry R. Pasley
David S. Adams
Daniel B. Benner
Sam Bruce
Ronnie L. Johnston
Robert E. Lipper
Kyle R. Bradford
Gordon W. Glodo
Melvin D. Marquette
Donald L. Mains
Robert L. Cozine
Jesse C. Enke III
Jim Malley
Warren C. Weisenbach
EAA Ch 37
Doug T. Rounds
Ted E. Davis
Mehlin B. Smith
Gary Karner
Don Grubbs
Carl Loar
Gregory L. Utley
Richard L. Berstling
John R. Wolf
John H. Simpson
Sanford W. Love
Paul E. Sherman
Samuel F. Hambleton
Gary A. Norton
Wayne T. Norton
Donald W. Halloran
Kenneth M. Dilks
Ryder Olsen
Edward F. Ripplinger
Lawrence A. Cowell
Michael G. Kimbrel
Roger F. Love
William B. Duncan
Paul D. Dougherty
James R. Brukeen
Howard Holman
Wilbur C. Johnson
Dale A. Calchuff
Frederick M. Gleiter
Ron Vanderhart
David R. Karren
Andy Anderson
Phil J. Rutten
Joseph Fedelem
Jerry G. Standing
Daniel C. Cork Jr.
Robert Komishock
Glen L. Hepner
Joseph m. Czaplicki
Elinor Elg-Jones
James T. Wren
Donald W. Patrick
James W. Goodwin
David C. Gerbitz
Duane E. Merchant
C. Gordon Amudson
Lance S. Fleming
Duane R. Duea
Alex Fasolili
William D. Rowe
V. R. Davis Arista J. Smith
Joseph P. Orlando
Thurman M. Luxford
Five Aces, Inc.
Alan Bergren
Bud Rhodes
Fred Johnson
Donald R. Brenner
Joann S. Painter
Weneth D. Painter
Arthur L. Millay
Walter A. Beyer
Ray R. Martin
Robert D. DePratti Jr.
Roger White
Jimmy J. Davenport
Loyd H. Shropshire
C & S Engineering Co. (Hohn Paul Gagnon)
Richard M. West
Ronald H. Elliott
Noel Quinones
Steven O'Donnell
Kevin P. Hueser
Jack Deibert
David J. Anderson
Donald R. Brewer
Daniel T. Towery
Andrew Zammetti
Michael Brusilow
David L. Cleveland
Patrick W. Rose
William J. Haynes B & W Enterprises
Daniel J. Taylor
Leonard A. Brooks
Air & Sea
Craig R. Lawler
Jay Bosch
John E. McCarthy
Jim A. Sury
George Skistmas
William D. Rowe
Duane Stockton
Loyd J. Cox
Michael J. Troy
Brian J, Herreman
John Haavisto
Dennis Vetter
Chester Davis
William A. Lange Jr.
Siegfried Werners
John I. Warren
Jerry L. Logan
Theordore J Myers
Harley A. Dahler
Peter W. Schiffel
David Karren
Henry C. Hays
Mike King
Bill R. Preece
Fred T Schmucker
Martin A Vandenbrock
Frank Dilman
Jim Kinsella
Dwayne D. Tulba
Robert H. Greenwall
David D. Petrocsko
Joe Gibson
Leon W. Slocum
Jefferson H. Triplett
Larry D. Harrison
Bill Poiry
Robert M. Hubbard
Gail Acrft Engrg Co.
Timothy W. Sefcik
Harvey Planes LLC
Lavaun M. Raaf
Richard D. Tichy
Lewis A Jennings
Joseph Farkas
William S. Knight
Richard M. Carpenter
John L. Overholser
Joyce A. Hunt
Harry K. Olsson
Allan Mirkin
Andrew C. Pietenpol
James O Kearns
Robin J. Passley
Ryan G. Shepherd
Don Schexnayder
EAA Chapter 827
Stephen Miller
Thomas E. Bowdler
Robert S. Nevin Jr.
Thomas P. Paiement
Richard Farwell
Dream Aircraft Inc. (Clyde Buckley)
Brad R. Schultz
Craig R. Lawler
Warren D. Bliss
Deward D. Peterson
David E. Jones
Richard E. Wood
Edward L. Sigman
Maryann Dunn
John M. Greenlee
Joseph T. Kohler
Ronald L. Jansen
Melvin Green
Theodore H. Bradley
Tim Cunningham
Thomas E. Fahy
Dennis J. Heiny
James E. Marshall
Feffrey L. Austin
Regis J. Fisher
James L. Belknap
Thomas A. Baker
Robert H. Miller
Lawrence C. Kropp
Rodney L. Schrader
Elmer C. Church
Walter I. Groskurth
Harold N. Downing
Arch L. Howard
Donald E. Meagher
Thomas J. Young
Ronald D. Bloomquist
James R. Carr
Virl B. Deal
John E. Emmerson
James E. Emmerson
Freddie G. Emmerson
Kevin Ross
Daniel Patterson
Quonset Air Museum
Brian W. Swanson
Charles E. Rubeck
Cecil E. Boyd Jr.
Ernest M. Bridgers
Loyd R. Brents
Malcom D. Muir
Robert Bozeman
Carroll G. Allen
Joseph Leonard
Donald Campbell
Elaine C. Roehrig
Joshua Harrel
Floyd E. Shewmaker Jr.
Richard L. Barfield
Timothy TrueWalter Fuller
Frederick F. Baker
Jerome E. Hahn
Virgil J. Phillips
Science Museum of Virginia
George A. Grant
Robert E. Kamerman
David L. Wheatley
Larry & Julie Robbins
Mark A. Anderson
Mack A. Buswell
Gary M. Goodman
David A. Atnip
David O. Thompson
Edward M. Strackbein
James T. Vandervort
Charles B. Kile
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Searching for Pietenpol People |
Chuck,
Duane Duea on your list is eastofLA(at)aol.com . He has a Corvair powered Piet
that he built years ago and flies it regularly out of Faribault, MN where I
am based.
Ron Bloomquist on your list is bloomvintageaero(at)charter.net and should be
current
Josh Harel (note the correct spelling of the last name) on your list is
jharel(at)servusa.com and should be current
Mike Brusilow is mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net although this may be old.
chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Searching for Pietenpol People
>
> Group,
> I'm still trying to contact everyone I can, to see if they would like to
be
> included in the 'Pietenpol Infomation List'. I got most of these names
from
> Doc Mosher's 'Pietenpol Owner Directory'. It's a long list. Please
e-mail me
> direct, if you know the e-mail address of any of these people.
>
> Names I need e-mail for:
> Dick Alkire
> Mark Anderson
> Ken Anderson
> Raffaele (Domenic) Bellissimo
> Tom Brown
> William Conway
> Tim Cunningham
> Owen Davies
> Richard DeCosta
> Bill Emo
> DL Grammont
> John Greenlee
> Dennis Hall
> Jeff Hill
> Chad Johnson
> Ron Kaser
> Brian Kenny
> Jim Kensella
> Bill Knight
> John Langston
> michael list
> Frank Lowell
> Jim Malley
> Tim Mickle
> Paul Morton
> Larry Neal
> Frank Pavliga
> Matt Paxton
> Kyle Ray
> J R Reber
> Bill Rewey
> Lee Schiek
> David B. Schober
> Bob Seibert
> Warren Shoun
> Brad Schultz
> Mehlin Smith
> Hank Stein
> Randy Stockberger
> Alan Swanson
> Bill Talbert
> Duane woolsey
> Leo Powning
> Simon MacCormack
> Doug Reeve
> Doug CGCGJ
> Garth Upton
> Leo Ponton
> Claude Plathey
> James V Vahary
> Mike Lisenbra
> Scott Liefield
> Richard W Franklin
> Michael A Jewett
> Carl R Adams
> Thomas e. Bowdler
> Earl M. Klebs
> John Davolt
> Warren Timmerman
> Leroy D. Swenson
> Jim Hampton
> Gary McArthur
> Robert H. Meier
> Richard C. Kohm
> Robert H. Meier
> Manuel Sparks
> Blane E. Tower
> Jerry Fogg
> Steven T. Miller
> Harry J. Winslow
> Willard Talley
> Lewis Jennings
> Marvin Grout
> William C. Hooper
> Mehlin B. Smith
> Lester M. Talent
> Clarence Salmon
> Douglas P. Rohde
> Bud C. Johnson
> Jobeth Barrett
> Don B. Brooks
> Thomas N. Terning
> Robert D. Bell
> Peter Smith
> Stephen C. Bowman
> Donald H. Reynolds
> Edward M. Strackbein
> Hayden Gildersleeve
> A. P. Hurst
> J. V. Mesdag
> James K. Stark Jr.
> Tilman Thomas Jr.
> Dennis Hall
> Clifford Kumm
> Robert L. Linton
> Kevin T. McDonald
> William O. Smith
> Randy W. Wieden
> John D. Killian
> Wilbur C. Graff
> Howard B. Twibell
> Paul E. Roy
> Peter L. Korwin
> Thomas Reedy
> Edward M. Sampson
> Vintage Aviation Services Inc.
> Terry Brandt
> Albert E. Koons
> Mark A. Anderson
> Sylvester K. Heller
> Hans C. Egsgaard
> John L. Kerr
> Cass County Historical Society
> Museum of the Rockies
> 12937 EAA
> Edward M. Sampson
> Vitalis Kapler
> Larry & Ilse Harmacinski
> Airpower Museum Inc.
> Walter C. Bowe
> James F. Hammond
> Jack M. Maki
> John H. Shoemaker
> David Rezin
> John J. Felton
> James O. Potter
> Donald F. Buckman
> James J. Dean
> David O. Harris
> Gary Baglien
> Lonnie L. Tucker
> Air Museum City of Liberal
> William E. Borie
> Milestones of Flight Museum
> Zara H. Royal
> Marshall D. Welch
> William J. Marshall
> Maurice T. Way
> Gary M. Gingrich
> Kevin L. Helf
> Handy D. Gilbert
> Lowell J. Durham
> Lawrence D. Becker
> Bradford Schultz
> Fletcher A. Burns
> Derry D. Dettmer
> Ernie W. Moreno
> Rodney C. Eig
> Richard P. Alkire
> Steven C. Mourer
> James W. Wallace
> Edward M. Popejoy
> Christopher Jacobs
> Larry Harrison
> Eugene L. Hershey
> Gene W. Hoffman
> William E. VanHorn
> Joseph F. Sheble III
> Fred H. Dexter
> Herbert J. Townsend
> Wayne D. Lord
> Richard I. Hill
> Donald P. Campbell
> Michael E. Holcomb
> Donald H. Walter
> J. R. Reber
> Pete Pittinger
> Merle Smith
> Warren Simpson
> James Ballew
> Flying Dutchman Inc. (Ted Brousseau)
> Tom H. Mathes
> Wilbur C. Volker
> David W. Doherty
> Donald R. Doherty
> William S. Doherty
> Paul S. DiMascio
> Kenneth Perkins
> Paul F. Hamilton
> Texas Air Museum
> Robert L. Ross
> Gene E. Martinson
> William J. Masson
> Art Holiman
> Kerri Ann Prict
> David G. Briers
> Edward J. Snyder
> William F. McKee
> James W. Tillery
> Alva A. Owen
> Mitchel J. Burns
> Hiller Aviation Museum
> Sue Wayne
> Thomas H. Lubben
> David A. Beckett
> Joseph Sexton
> Ray Fanchamps
> Phillip T. Kapp
> Allan J. Wise
> Travis M. Gregory
> Kelly D. Tippetts
> Kim Stricker
> Van R. Weinman
> August A. Draffkorn
> Joseph Vinciquarra
> H. J. Judkins
> Charles D. VanWalker
> Paul G. Castine
> Ronald C. VanKnowe
> Dennis Davitt
> Harold Straw
> Alex P. Whitmore Jr.
> H & N Aero Inc. (Bill Davis
> Eaton C. Green
> Mike Williams
> Thomas L. Brown
> Felix Quast
> Richard Hatch
> B. J. Powell
> William J. Pratt
> Terry A. Richardson
> John W. Watson
> Gilbert D. McKessy
> Rick L. Anderson
> Joseph W. Santana
> Edward R. Mason
> Liberty Flying Service Inc.
> John D. Puent
> Lowell C. Frank
> Carl J. Pitcher
> Jack B. Singer
> Evertt G. Downey
> Jan B. Mock
> Monte M. Miller
> Antique Airplane Corp. (Robt Taylor)
> Charles H. Smith
> Peter Kesling
> Larry R. Pasley
> David S. Adams
> Daniel B. Benner
> Sam Bruce
> Ronnie L. Johnston
> Robert E. Lipper
> Kyle R. Bradford
> Gordon W. Glodo
> Melvin D. Marquette
> Donald L. Mains
> Robert L. Cozine
> Jesse C. Enke III
> Jim Malley
> Warren C. Weisenbach
> EAA Ch 37
> Doug T. Rounds
> Ted E. Davis
> Mehlin B. Smith
> Gary Karner
> Don Grubbs
> Carl Loar
> Gregory L. Utley
> Richard L. Berstling
> John R. Wolf
> John H. Simpson
> Sanford W. Love
> Paul E. Sherman
> Samuel F. Hambleton
> Gary A. Norton
> Wayne T. Norton
> Donald W. Halloran
> Kenneth M. Dilks
> Ryder Olsen
> Edward F. Ripplinger
> Lawrence A. Cowell
> Michael G. Kimbrel
> Roger F. Love
> William B. Duncan
> Paul D. Dougherty
> James R. Brukeen
> Howard Holman
> Wilbur C. Johnson
> Dale A. Calchuff
> Frederick M. Gleiter
> Ron Vanderhart
> David R. Karren
> Andy Anderson
> Phil J. Rutten
> Joseph Fedelem
> Jerry G. Standing
> Daniel C. Cork Jr.
> Robert Komishock
> Glen L. Hepner
> Joseph m. Czaplicki
> Elinor Elg-Jones
> James T. Wren
> Donald W. Patrick
> James W. Goodwin
> David C. Gerbitz
> Duane E. Merchant
> C. Gordon Amudson
> Lance S. Fleming
> Duane R. Duea
> Alex Fasolili
> William D. Rowe
> V. R. Davis Arista J. Smith
> Joseph P. Orlando
> Thurman M. Luxford
> Five Aces, Inc.
> Alan Bergren
> Bud Rhodes
> Fred Johnson
> Donald R. Brenner
> Joann S. Painter
> Weneth D. Painter
> Arthur L. Millay
> Walter A. Beyer
> Ray R. Martin
> Robert D. DePratti Jr.
> Roger White
> Jimmy J. Davenport
> Loyd H. Shropshire
> C & S Engineering Co. (Hohn Paul Gagnon)
> Richard M. West
> Ronald H. Elliott
> Noel Quinones
> Steven O'Donnell
> Kevin P. Hueser
> Jack Deibert
> David J. Anderson
> Donald R. Brewer
> Daniel T. Towery
> Andrew Zammetti
> Michael Brusilow
> David L. Cleveland
> Patrick W. Rose
> William J. Haynes B & W Enterprises
> Daniel J. Taylor
> Leonard A. Brooks
> Air & Sea
> Craig R. Lawler
> Jay Bosch
> John E. McCarthy
> Jim A. Sury
> George Skistmas
> William D. Rowe
> Duane Stockton
> Loyd J. Cox
> Michael J. Troy
> Brian J, Herreman
> John Haavisto
> Dennis Vetter
> Chester Davis
> William A. Lange Jr.
> Siegfried Werners
> John I. Warren
> Jerry L. Logan
> Theordore J Myers
> Harley A. Dahler
> Peter W. Schiffel
> David Karren
> Henry C. Hays
> Mike King
> Bill R. Preece
> Fred T Schmucker
> Martin A Vandenbrock
> Frank Dilman
> Jim Kinsella
> Dwayne D. Tulba
> Robert H. Greenwall
> David D. Petrocsko
> Joe Gibson
> Leon W. Slocum
> Jefferson H. Triplett
> Larry D. Harrison
> Bill Poiry
> Robert M. Hubbard
> Gail Acrft Engrg Co.
> Timothy W. Sefcik
> Harvey Planes LLC
> Lavaun M. Raaf
> Richard D. Tichy
> Lewis A Jennings
> Joseph Farkas
> William S. Knight
> Richard M. Carpenter
> John L. Overholser
> Joyce A. Hunt
> Harry K. Olsson
> Allan Mirkin
> Andrew C. Pietenpol
> James O Kearns
> Robin J. Passley
> Ryan G. Shepherd
> Don Schexnayder
> EAA Chapter 827
> Stephen Miller
> Thomas E. Bowdler
> Robert S. Nevin Jr.
> Thomas P. Paiement
> Richard Farwell
> Dream Aircraft Inc. (Clyde Buckley)
> Brad R. Schultz
> Craig R. Lawler
> Warren D. Bliss
> Deward D. Peterson
> David E. Jones
> Richard E. Wood
> Edward L. Sigman
> Maryann Dunn
> John M. Greenlee
> Joseph T. Kohler
> Ronald L. Jansen
> Melvin Green
> Theodore H. Bradley
> Tim Cunningham
> Thomas E. Fahy
> Dennis J. Heiny
> James E. Marshall
> Feffrey L. Austin
> Regis J. Fisher
> James L. Belknap
> Thomas A. Baker
> Robert H. Miller
> Lawrence C. Kropp
> Rodney L. Schrader
> Elmer C. Church
> Walter I. Groskurth
> Harold N. Downing
> Arch L. Howard
> Donald E. Meagher
> Thomas J. Young
> Ronald D. Bloomquist
> James R. Carr
> Virl B. Deal
> John E. Emmerson
> James E. Emmerson
> Freddie G. Emmerson
> Kevin Ross
> Daniel Patterson
> Quonset Air Museum
> Brian W. Swanson
> Charles E. Rubeck
> Cecil E. Boyd Jr.
> Ernest M. Bridgers
> Loyd R. Brents
> Malcom D. Muir
> Robert Bozeman
> Carroll G. Allen
> Joseph Leonard
> Donald Campbell
> Elaine C. Roehrig
> Joshua Harrel
> Floyd E. Shewmaker Jr.
> Richard L. Barfield
> Timothy TrueWalter Fuller
> Frederick F. Baker
> Jerome E. Hahn
> Virgil J. Phillips
> Science Museum of Virginia
> George A. Grant
> Robert E. Kamerman
> David L. Wheatley
> Larry & Julie Robbins
> Mark A. Anderson
> Mack A. Buswell
> Gary M. Goodman
> David A. Atnip
> David O. Thompson
> Edward M. Strackbein
> James T. Vandervort
> Charles B. Kile
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Searching for Pietenpol People |
sad to say but Robert Bozeman was killed in his Piet either last year or the
year before. I suppose you ought to remove him from your list.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Searching for Pietenpol People
>
> Group,
> I'm still trying to contact everyone I can, to see if they would like to
be
> included in the 'Pietenpol Infomation List'. I got most of these names
from
> Doc Mosher's 'Pietenpol Owner Directory'. It's a long list. Please
e-mail me
> direct, if you know the e-mail address of any of these people.
>
> Names I need e-mail for:
> Dick Alkire
> Mark Anderson
> Ken Anderson
> Raffaele (Domenic) Bellissimo
> Tom Brown
> William Conway
> Tim Cunningham
> Owen Davies
> Richard DeCosta
> Bill Emo
> DL Grammont
> John Greenlee
> Dennis Hall
> Jeff Hill
> Chad Johnson
> Ron Kaser
> Brian Kenny
> Jim Kensella
> Bill Knight
> John Langston
> michael list
> Frank Lowell
> Jim Malley
> Tim Mickle
> Paul Morton
> Larry Neal
> Frank Pavliga
> Matt Paxton
> Kyle Ray
> J R Reber
> Bill Rewey
> Lee Schiek
> David B. Schober
> Bob Seibert
> Warren Shoun
> Brad Schultz
> Mehlin Smith
> Hank Stein
> Randy Stockberger
> Alan Swanson
> Bill Talbert
> Duane woolsey
> Leo Powning
> Simon MacCormack
> Doug Reeve
> Doug CGCGJ
> Garth Upton
> Leo Ponton
> Claude Plathey
> James V Vahary
> Mike Lisenbra
> Scott Liefield
> Richard W Franklin
> Michael A Jewett
> Carl R Adams
> Thomas e. Bowdler
> Earl M. Klebs
> John Davolt
> Warren Timmerman
> Leroy D. Swenson
> Jim Hampton
> Gary McArthur
> Robert H. Meier
> Richard C. Kohm
> Robert H. Meier
> Manuel Sparks
> Blane E. Tower
> Jerry Fogg
> Steven T. Miller
> Harry J. Winslow
> Willard Talley
> Lewis Jennings
> Marvin Grout
> William C. Hooper
> Mehlin B. Smith
> Lester M. Talent
> Clarence Salmon
> Douglas P. Rohde
> Bud C. Johnson
> Jobeth Barrett
> Don B. Brooks
> Thomas N. Terning
> Robert D. Bell
> Peter Smith
> Stephen C. Bowman
> Donald H. Reynolds
> Edward M. Strackbein
> Hayden Gildersleeve
> A. P. Hurst
> J. V. Mesdag
> James K. Stark Jr.
> Tilman Thomas Jr.
> Dennis Hall
> Clifford Kumm
> Robert L. Linton
> Kevin T. McDonald
> William O. Smith
> Randy W. Wieden
> John D. Killian
> Wilbur C. Graff
> Howard B. Twibell
> Paul E. Roy
> Peter L. Korwin
> Thomas Reedy
> Edward M. Sampson
> Vintage Aviation Services Inc.
> Terry Brandt
> Albert E. Koons
> Mark A. Anderson
> Sylvester K. Heller
> Hans C. Egsgaard
> John L. Kerr
> Cass County Historical Society
> Museum of the Rockies
> 12937 EAA
> Edward M. Sampson
> Vitalis Kapler
> Larry & Ilse Harmacinski
> Airpower Museum Inc.
> Walter C. Bowe
> James F. Hammond
> Jack M. Maki
> John H. Shoemaker
> David Rezin
> John J. Felton
> James O. Potter
> Donald F. Buckman
> James J. Dean
> David O. Harris
> Gary Baglien
> Lonnie L. Tucker
> Air Museum City of Liberal
> William E. Borie
> Milestones of Flight Museum
> Zara H. Royal
> Marshall D. Welch
> William J. Marshall
> Maurice T. Way
> Gary M. Gingrich
> Kevin L. Helf
> Handy D. Gilbert
> Lowell J. Durham
> Lawrence D. Becker
> Bradford Schultz
> Fletcher A. Burns
> Derry D. Dettmer
> Ernie W. Moreno
> Rodney C. Eig
> Richard P. Alkire
> Steven C. Mourer
> James W. Wallace
> Edward M. Popejoy
> Christopher Jacobs
> Larry Harrison
> Eugene L. Hershey
> Gene W. Hoffman
> William E. VanHorn
> Joseph F. Sheble III
> Fred H. Dexter
> Herbert J. Townsend
> Wayne D. Lord
> Richard I. Hill
> Donald P. Campbell
> Michael E. Holcomb
> Donald H. Walter
> J. R. Reber
> Pete Pittinger
> Merle Smith
> Warren Simpson
> James Ballew
> Flying Dutchman Inc. (Ted Brousseau)
> Tom H. Mathes
> Wilbur C. Volker
> David W. Doherty
> Donald R. Doherty
> William S. Doherty
> Paul S. DiMascio
> Kenneth Perkins
> Paul F. Hamilton
> Texas Air Museum
> Robert L. Ross
> Gene E. Martinson
> William J. Masson
> Art Holiman
> Kerri Ann Prict
> David G. Briers
> Edward J. Snyder
> William F. McKee
> James W. Tillery
> Alva A. Owen
> Mitchel J. Burns
> Hiller Aviation Museum
> Sue Wayne
> Thomas H. Lubben
> David A. Beckett
> Joseph Sexton
> Ray Fanchamps
> Phillip T. Kapp
> Allan J. Wise
> Travis M. Gregory
> Kelly D. Tippetts
> Kim Stricker
> Van R. Weinman
> August A. Draffkorn
> Joseph Vinciquarra
> H. J. Judkins
> Charles D. VanWalker
> Paul G. Castine
> Ronald C. VanKnowe
> Dennis Davitt
> Harold Straw
> Alex P. Whitmore Jr.
> H & N Aero Inc. (Bill Davis
> Eaton C. Green
> Mike Williams
> Thomas L. Brown
> Felix Quast
> Richard Hatch
> B. J. Powell
> William J. Pratt
> Terry A. Richardson
> John W. Watson
> Gilbert D. McKessy
> Rick L. Anderson
> Joseph W. Santana
> Edward R. Mason
> Liberty Flying Service Inc.
> John D. Puent
> Lowell C. Frank
> Carl J. Pitcher
> Jack B. Singer
> Evertt G. Downey
> Jan B. Mock
> Monte M. Miller
> Antique Airplane Corp. (Robt Taylor)
> Charles H. Smith
> Peter Kesling
> Larry R. Pasley
> David S. Adams
> Daniel B. Benner
> Sam Bruce
> Ronnie L. Johnston
> Robert E. Lipper
> Kyle R. Bradford
> Gordon W. Glodo
> Melvin D. Marquette
> Donald L. Mains
> Robert L. Cozine
> Jesse C. Enke III
> Jim Malley
> Warren C. Weisenbach
> EAA Ch 37
> Doug T. Rounds
> Ted E. Davis
> Mehlin B. Smith
> Gary Karner
> Don Grubbs
> Carl Loar
> Gregory L. Utley
> Richard L. Berstling
> John R. Wolf
> John H. Simpson
> Sanford W. Love
> Paul E. Sherman
> Samuel F. Hambleton
> Gary A. Norton
> Wayne T. Norton
> Donald W. Halloran
> Kenneth M. Dilks
> Ryder Olsen
> Edward F. Ripplinger
> Lawrence A. Cowell
> Michael G. Kimbrel
> Roger F. Love
> William B. Duncan
> Paul D. Dougherty
> James R. Brukeen
> Howard Holman
> Wilbur C. Johnson
> Dale A. Calchuff
> Frederick M. Gleiter
> Ron Vanderhart
> David R. Karren
> Andy Anderson
> Phil J. Rutten
> Joseph Fedelem
> Jerry G. Standing
> Daniel C. Cork Jr.
> Robert Komishock
> Glen L. Hepner
> Joseph m. Czaplicki
> Elinor Elg-Jones
> James T. Wren
> Donald W. Patrick
> James W. Goodwin
> David C. Gerbitz
> Duane E. Merchant
> C. Gordon Amudson
> Lance S. Fleming
> Duane R. Duea
> Alex Fasolili
> William D. Rowe
> V. R. Davis Arista J. Smith
> Joseph P. Orlando
> Thurman M. Luxford
> Five Aces, Inc.
> Alan Bergren
> Bud Rhodes
> Fred Johnson
> Donald R. Brenner
> Joann S. Painter
> Weneth D. Painter
> Arthur L. Millay
> Walter A. Beyer
> Ray R. Martin
> Robert D. DePratti Jr.
> Roger White
> Jimmy J. Davenport
> Loyd H. Shropshire
> C & S Engineering Co. (Hohn Paul Gagnon)
> Richard M. West
> Ronald H. Elliott
> Noel Quinones
> Steven O'Donnell
> Kevin P. Hueser
> Jack Deibert
> David J. Anderson
> Donald R. Brewer
> Daniel T. Towery
> Andrew Zammetti
> Michael Brusilow
> David L. Cleveland
> Patrick W. Rose
> William J. Haynes B & W Enterprises
> Daniel J. Taylor
> Leonard A. Brooks
> Air & Sea
> Craig R. Lawler
> Jay Bosch
> John E. McCarthy
> Jim A. Sury
> George Skistmas
> William D. Rowe
> Duane Stockton
> Loyd J. Cox
> Michael J. Troy
> Brian J, Herreman
> John Haavisto
> Dennis Vetter
> Chester Davis
> William A. Lange Jr.
> Siegfried Werners
> John I. Warren
> Jerry L. Logan
> Theordore J Myers
> Harley A. Dahler
> Peter W. Schiffel
> David Karren
> Henry C. Hays
> Mike King
> Bill R. Preece
> Fred T Schmucker
> Martin A Vandenbrock
> Frank Dilman
> Jim Kinsella
> Dwayne D. Tulba
> Robert H. Greenwall
> David D. Petrocsko
> Joe Gibson
> Leon W. Slocum
> Jefferson H. Triplett
> Larry D. Harrison
> Bill Poiry
> Robert M. Hubbard
> Gail Acrft Engrg Co.
> Timothy W. Sefcik
> Harvey Planes LLC
> Lavaun M. Raaf
> Richard D. Tichy
> Lewis A Jennings
> Joseph Farkas
> William S. Knight
> Richard M. Carpenter
> John L. Overholser
> Joyce A. Hunt
> Harry K. Olsson
> Allan Mirkin
> Andrew C. Pietenpol
> James O Kearns
> Robin J. Passley
> Ryan G. Shepherd
> Don Schexnayder
> EAA Chapter 827
> Stephen Miller
> Thomas E. Bowdler
> Robert S. Nevin Jr.
> Thomas P. Paiement
> Richard Farwell
> Dream Aircraft Inc. (Clyde Buckley)
> Brad R. Schultz
> Craig R. Lawler
> Warren D. Bliss
> Deward D. Peterson
> David E. Jones
> Richard E. Wood
> Edward L. Sigman
> Maryann Dunn
> John M. Greenlee
> Joseph T. Kohler
> Ronald L. Jansen
> Melvin Green
> Theodore H. Bradley
> Tim Cunningham
> Thomas E. Fahy
> Dennis J. Heiny
> James E. Marshall
> Feffrey L. Austin
> Regis J. Fisher
> James L. Belknap
> Thomas A. Baker
> Robert H. Miller
> Lawrence C. Kropp
> Rodney L. Schrader
> Elmer C. Church
> Walter I. Groskurth
> Harold N. Downing
> Arch L. Howard
> Donald E. Meagher
> Thomas J. Young
> Ronald D. Bloomquist
> James R. Carr
> Virl B. Deal
> John E. Emmerson
> James E. Emmerson
> Freddie G. Emmerson
> Kevin Ross
> Daniel Patterson
> Quonset Air Museum
> Brian W. Swanson
> Charles E. Rubeck
> Cecil E. Boyd Jr.
> Ernest M. Bridgers
> Loyd R. Brents
> Malcom D. Muir
> Robert Bozeman
> Carroll G. Allen
> Joseph Leonard
> Donald Campbell
> Elaine C. Roehrig
> Joshua Harrel
> Floyd E. Shewmaker Jr.
> Richard L. Barfield
> Timothy TrueWalter Fuller
> Frederick F. Baker
> Jerome E. Hahn
> Virgil J. Phillips
> Science Museum of Virginia
> George A. Grant
> Robert E. Kamerman
> David L. Wheatley
> Larry & Julie Robbins
> Mark A. Anderson
> Mack A. Buswell
> Gary M. Goodman
> David A. Atnip
> David O. Thompson
> Edward M. Strackbein
> James T. Vandervort
> Charles B. Kile
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
"Piet - Larry Williams" ,
| Subject: | Landing gear "misalignment" question.... |
I'm having trouble figuring out how to get the ash piece lined up with the spruce
"V" pieces on my straight axle landing gear.
I aligned the ash piece with the centerline of the fuse but it looks like that
makes it misalign with the rest of the gear. Maybe I should "move it out" to align
with the spruce V's? That would probably look better but if I leave it as
is, I can do some trimming and blend it all in..... It looks like I could do
a bit of trimming to the spruce pieces and get their edges to line up then "toe
out" the ash piece......I believe the integrity of the intersection would
be maintained....esthetically it might look strange though....just don't know....
Can someone tell me if you just trim and cut and sand to fit or move the ash piece
out to where it aligns with the spruce vertical V pieces or what????
Anyone have some ideas on my problem (if it really is a problem) or do I just need
to "trim to fit"?
Thanks!
JM
(I cropped the picture a LOT to avoid confusing anyone with any of the strange
items in my workshop.........)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | searching for Pietenpol people |
Holy smokes, Chuck! That is one heck of a list you've got there. A few
names there I recognize:
Fletcher Burns is fletcher(at)ultravair.com and (unless there are more than one
"Fletcher Burns"), is the person who developed and is flying the 1/3 Corvair
"UltraVair" engine... but not on a Piet. Ernie Moreno is
ewmoreno(at)worldnet.att.net and still has his Piet up in Independence, OR
(although the Franklin engine on it is unairworthy). And Carl Loar was
skycarl(at)core.com last I heard. His Corvair-powered Piet should have already
been flying? And a bunch of other familiar names on the list, but not sure
many of them have email or are on this list.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Thanks for the help!!! : Landing gear "misalignment" |
question....
I just love the way some answers become SO obvious when you talk through them....and
get some really good help from people on this list! What a terrific resource.....
Thanks! (I'll angle the ash piece back in toward the tail, duh....an obvious solution
now that I look at it!!)
JM
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ; Clif Dawson ; Piet - Larry Williams ; Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 8:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear "misalignment" question....
I'm having trouble figuring out how to get the ash piece lined up with the spruce
"V" pieces on my straight axle landing gear.
I aligned the ash piece with the centerline of the fuse but it looks like that
makes it misalign with the rest of the gear. Maybe I should "move it out" to
align with the spruce V's? That would probably look better but if I leave it
as is, I can do some trimming and blend it all in..... It looks like I could
do a bit of trimming to the spruce pieces and get their edges to line up then
"toe out" the ash piece......I believe the integrity of the intersection would
be maintained....esthetically it might look strange though....just don't know....
Can someone tell me if you just trim and cut and sand to fit or move the ash
piece out to where it aligns with the spruce vertical V pieces or what????
Anyone have some ideas on my problem (if it really is a problem) or do I just
need to "trim to fit"?
Thanks!
JM
(I cropped the picture a LOT to avoid confusing anyone with any of the strange
items in my workshop.........)
________________________________________________________________________________
<003f01c437d3$603f3a00$0301a8c0@Domain>
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Searching for Pietenpol People |
>
>Chuck,
>
>Duane Duea on your list is eastofLA(at)aol.com . He has a Corvair powered Piet
>that he built years ago and flies it regularly out of Faribault, MN where I
>am based.
>
>Ron Bloomquist on your list is bloomvintageaero(at)charter.net and should be
>current
>
>Josh Harel (note the correct spelling of the last name) on your list is
>jharel(at)servusa.com and should be current
>
>Mike Brusilow is mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net although this may be old.
Hi Chuck,
A couple of names I can tell you about.
Frank Pavliga does not make his e-mail public. His mailing address
has also changed as he recently moved.
Wil Graff still has his Piet based here in OH at Wadsworht Muni.
Kerri Ann Price maintains a web site where she markets her various
Piet modification plans. I think she sold her Piet.
I will check with Wil & Frank the next time I see them & find out if
they want to be on your list.
I bought Paul Sherman's project, so you can drop him from your list.
I promise I'm going to submit my project info one of these days!
Chris Bobka - My brother lives & teaches in Fairbault, maybe we can
link up with your Piet friend the next time I'm up for a visit. BTW,
any idea when you might be going to NJ to pick up lift struts at
Walt's airport?
--
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Searching for Pietenpol People |
ARe the Piet list members from England still up on the list? G-BUCO?
I am going to England in July for 10 days to go to the 1930's Air Day at Old
Warden as well as the PFA Rally in Kemble. I was hoping to catch up with
them.
chris
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Searching for Pietenpol People
>
> Group,
> I'm still trying to contact everyone I can, to see if they would like to
be
> included in the 'Pietenpol Infomation List'. I got most of these names
from
> Doc Mosher's 'Pietenpol Owner Directory'. It's a long list. Please
e-mail me
> direct, if you know the e-mail address of any of these people.
>
> Names I need e-mail for:
> Dick Alkire
> Mark Anderson
> Ken Anderson
> Raffaele (Domenic) Bellissimo
> Tom Brown
> William Conway
> Tim Cunningham
> Owen Davies
> Richard DeCosta
> Bill Emo
> DL Grammont
> John Greenlee
> Dennis Hall
> Jeff Hill
> Chad Johnson
> Ron Kaser
> Brian Kenny
> Jim Kensella
> Bill Knight
> John Langston
> michael list
> Frank Lowell
> Jim Malley
> Tim Mickle
> Paul Morton
> Larry Neal
> Frank Pavliga
> Matt Paxton
> Kyle Ray
> J R Reber
> Bill Rewey
> Lee Schiek
> David B. Schober
> Bob Seibert
> Warren Shoun
> Brad Schultz
> Mehlin Smith
> Hank Stein
> Randy Stockberger
> Alan Swanson
> Bill Talbert
> Duane woolsey
> Leo Powning
> Simon MacCormack
> Doug Reeve
> Doug CGCGJ
> Garth Upton
> Leo Ponton
> Claude Plathey
> James V Vahary
> Mike Lisenbra
> Scott Liefield
> Richard W Franklin
> Michael A Jewett
> Carl R Adams
> Thomas e. Bowdler
> Earl M. Klebs
> John Davolt
> Warren Timmerman
> Leroy D. Swenson
> Jim Hampton
> Gary McArthur
> Robert H. Meier
> Richard C. Kohm
> Robert H. Meier
> Manuel Sparks
> Blane E. Tower
> Jerry Fogg
> Steven T. Miller
> Harry J. Winslow
> Willard Talley
> Lewis Jennings
> Marvin Grout
> William C. Hooper
> Mehlin B. Smith
> Lester M. Talent
> Clarence Salmon
> Douglas P. Rohde
> Bud C. Johnson
> Jobeth Barrett
> Don B. Brooks
> Thomas N. Terning
> Robert D. Bell
> Peter Smith
> Stephen C. Bowman
> Donald H. Reynolds
> Edward M. Strackbein
> Hayden Gildersleeve
> A. P. Hurst
> J. V. Mesdag
> James K. Stark Jr.
> Tilman Thomas Jr.
> Dennis Hall
> Clifford Kumm
> Robert L. Linton
> Kevin T. McDonald
> William O. Smith
> Randy W. Wieden
> John D. Killian
> Wilbur C. Graff
> Howard B. Twibell
> Paul E. Roy
> Peter L. Korwin
> Thomas Reedy
> Edward M. Sampson
> Vintage Aviation Services Inc.
> Terry Brandt
> Albert E. Koons
> Mark A. Anderson
> Sylvester K. Heller
> Hans C. Egsgaard
> John L. Kerr
> Cass County Historical Society
> Museum of the Rockies
> 12937 EAA
> Edward M. Sampson
> Vitalis Kapler
> Larry & Ilse Harmacinski
> Airpower Museum Inc.
> Walter C. Bowe
> James F. Hammond
> Jack M. Maki
> John H. Shoemaker
> David Rezin
> John J. Felton
> James O. Potter
> Donald F. Buckman
> James J. Dean
> David O. Harris
> Gary Baglien
> Lonnie L. Tucker
> Air Museum City of Liberal
> William E. Borie
> Milestones of Flight Museum
> Zara H. Royal
> Marshall D. Welch
> William J. Marshall
> Maurice T. Way
> Gary M. Gingrich
> Kevin L. Helf
> Handy D. Gilbert
> Lowell J. Durham
> Lawrence D. Becker
> Bradford Schultz
> Fletcher A. Burns
> Derry D. Dettmer
> Ernie W. Moreno
> Rodney C. Eig
> Richard P. Alkire
> Steven C. Mourer
> James W. Wallace
> Edward M. Popejoy
> Christopher Jacobs
> Larry Harrison
> Eugene L. Hershey
> Gene W. Hoffman
> William E. VanHorn
> Joseph F. Sheble III
> Fred H. Dexter
> Herbert J. Townsend
> Wayne D. Lord
> Richard I. Hill
> Donald P. Campbell
> Michael E. Holcomb
> Donald H. Walter
> J. R. Reber
> Pete Pittinger
> Merle Smith
> Warren Simpson
> James Ballew
> Flying Dutchman Inc. (Ted Brousseau)
> Tom H. Mathes
> Wilbur C. Volker
> David W. Doherty
> Donald R. Doherty
> William S. Doherty
> Paul S. DiMascio
> Kenneth Perkins
> Paul F. Hamilton
> Texas Air Museum
> Robert L. Ross
> Gene E. Martinson
> William J. Masson
> Art Holiman
> Kerri Ann Prict
> David G. Briers
> Edward J. Snyder
> William F. McKee
> James W. Tillery
> Alva A. Owen
> Mitchel J. Burns
> Hiller Aviation Museum
> Sue Wayne
> Thomas H. Lubben
> David A. Beckett
> Joseph Sexton
> Ray Fanchamps
> Phillip T. Kapp
> Allan J. Wise
> Travis M. Gregory
> Kelly D. Tippetts
> Kim Stricker
> Van R. Weinman
> August A. Draffkorn
> Joseph Vinciquarra
> H. J. Judkins
> Charles D. VanWalker
> Paul G. Castine
> Ronald C. VanKnowe
> Dennis Davitt
> Harold Straw
> Alex P. Whitmore Jr.
> H & N Aero Inc. (Bill Davis
> Eaton C. Green
> Mike Williams
> Thomas L. Brown
> Felix Quast
> Richard Hatch
> B. J. Powell
> William J. Pratt
> Terry A. Richardson
> John W. Watson
> Gilbert D. McKessy
> Rick L. Anderson
> Joseph W. Santana
> Edward R. Mason
> Liberty Flying Service Inc.
> John D. Puent
> Lowell C. Frank
> Carl J. Pitcher
> Jack B. Singer
> Evertt G. Downey
> Jan B. Mock
> Monte M. Miller
> Antique Airplane Corp. (Robt Taylor)
> Charles H. Smith
> Peter Kesling
> Larry R. Pasley
> David S. Adams
> Daniel B. Benner
> Sam Bruce
> Ronnie L. Johnston
> Robert E. Lipper
> Kyle R. Bradford
> Gordon W. Glodo
> Melvin D. Marquette
> Donald L. Mains
> Robert L. Cozine
> Jesse C. Enke III
> Jim Malley
> Warren C. Weisenbach
> EAA Ch 37
> Doug T. Rounds
> Ted E. Davis
> Mehlin B. Smith
> Gary Karner
> Don Grubbs
> Carl Loar
> Gregory L. Utley
> Richard L. Berstling
> John R. Wolf
> John H. Simpson
> Sanford W. Love
> Paul E. Sherman
> Samuel F. Hambleton
> Gary A. Norton
> Wayne T. Norton
> Donald W. Halloran
> Kenneth M. Dilks
> Ryder Olsen
> Edward F. Ripplinger
> Lawrence A. Cowell
> Michael G. Kimbrel
> Roger F. Love
> William B. Duncan
> Paul D. Dougherty
> James R. Brukeen
> Howard Holman
> Wilbur C. Johnson
> Dale A. Calchuff
> Frederick M. Gleiter
> Ron Vanderhart
> David R. Karren
> Andy Anderson
> Phil J. Rutten
> Joseph Fedelem
> Jerry G. Standing
> Daniel C. Cork Jr.
> Robert Komishock
> Glen L. Hepner
> Joseph m. Czaplicki
> Elinor Elg-Jones
> James T. Wren
> Donald W. Patrick
> James W. Goodwin
> David C. Gerbitz
> Duane E. Merchant
> C. Gordon Amudson
> Lance S. Fleming
> Duane R. Duea
> Alex Fasolili
> William D. Rowe
> V. R. Davis Arista J. Smith
> Joseph P. Orlando
> Thurman M. Luxford
> Five Aces, Inc.
> Alan Bergren
> Bud Rhodes
> Fred Johnson
> Donald R. Brenner
> Joann S. Painter
> Weneth D. Painter
> Arthur L. Millay
> Walter A. Beyer
> Ray R. Martin
> Robert D. DePratti Jr.
> Roger White
> Jimmy J. Davenport
> Loyd H. Shropshire
> C & S Engineering Co. (Hohn Paul Gagnon)
> Richard M. West
> Ronald H. Elliott
> Noel Quinones
> Steven O'Donnell
> Kevin P. Hueser
> Jack Deibert
> David J. Anderson
> Donald R. Brewer
> Daniel T. Towery
> Andrew Zammetti
> Michael Brusilow
> David L. Cleveland
> Patrick W. Rose
> William J. Haynes B & W Enterprises
> Daniel J. Taylor
> Leonard A. Brooks
> Air & Sea
> Craig R. Lawler
> Jay Bosch
> John E. McCarthy
> Jim A. Sury
> George Skistmas
> William D. Rowe
> Duane Stockton
> Loyd J. Cox
> Michael J. Troy
> Brian J, Herreman
> John Haavisto
> Dennis Vetter
> Chester Davis
> William A. Lange Jr.
> Siegfried Werners
> John I. Warren
> Jerry L. Logan
> Theordore J Myers
> Harley A. Dahler
> Peter W. Schiffel
> David Karren
> Henry C. Hays
> Mike King
> Bill R. Preece
> Fred T Schmucker
> Martin A Vandenbrock
> Frank Dilman
> Jim Kinsella
> Dwayne D. Tulba
> Robert H. Greenwall
> David D. Petrocsko
> Joe Gibson
> Leon W. Slocum
> Jefferson H. Triplett
> Larry D. Harrison
> Bill Poiry
> Robert M. Hubbard
> Gail Acrft Engrg Co.
> Timothy W. Sefcik
> Harvey Planes LLC
> Lavaun M. Raaf
> Richard D. Tichy
> Lewis A Jennings
> Joseph Farkas
> William S. Knight
> Richard M. Carpenter
> John L. Overholser
> Joyce A. Hunt
> Harry K. Olsson
> Allan Mirkin
> Andrew C. Pietenpol
> James O Kearns
> Robin J. Passley
> Ryan G. Shepherd
> Don Schexnayder
> EAA Chapter 827
> Stephen Miller
> Thomas E. Bowdler
> Robert S. Nevin Jr.
> Thomas P. Paiement
> Richard Farwell
> Dream Aircraft Inc. (Clyde Buckley)
> Brad R. Schultz
> Craig R. Lawler
> Warren D. Bliss
> Deward D. Peterson
> David E. Jones
> Richard E. Wood
> Edward L. Sigman
> Maryann Dunn
> John M. Greenlee
> Joseph T. Kohler
> Ronald L. Jansen
> Melvin Green
> Theodore H. Bradley
> Tim Cunningham
> Thomas E. Fahy
> Dennis J. Heiny
> James E. Marshall
> Feffrey L. Austin
> Regis J. Fisher
> James L. Belknap
> Thomas A. Baker
> Robert H. Miller
> Lawrence C. Kropp
> Rodney L. Schrader
> Elmer C. Church
> Walter I. Groskurth
> Harold N. Downing
> Arch L. Howard
> Donald E. Meagher
> Thomas J. Young
> Ronald D. Bloomquist
> James R. Carr
> Virl B. Deal
> John E. Emmerson
> James E. Emmerson
> Freddie G. Emmerson
> Kevin Ross
> Daniel Patterson
> Quonset Air Museum
> Brian W. Swanson
> Charles E. Rubeck
> Cecil E. Boyd Jr.
> Ernest M. Bridgers
> Loyd R. Brents
> Malcom D. Muir
> Robert Bozeman
> Carroll G. Allen
> Joseph Leonard
> Donald Campbell
> Elaine C. Roehrig
> Joshua Harrel
> Floyd E. Shewmaker Jr.
> Richard L. Barfield
> Timothy TrueWalter Fuller
> Frederick F. Baker
> Jerome E. Hahn
> Virgil J. Phillips
> Science Museum of Virginia
> George A. Grant
> Robert E. Kamerman
> David L. Wheatley
> Larry & Julie Robbins
> Mark A. Anderson
> Mack A. Buswell
> Gary M. Goodman
> David A. Atnip
> David O. Thompson
> Edward M. Strackbein
> James T. Vandervort
> Charles B. Kile
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Searching for Pietenpol People |
Chris,
Check out http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/, go to builders list. They are all
there.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi, Australia.
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christian
Bobka
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Searching for Pietenpol People
ARe the Piet list members from England still up on the list? G-BUCO?
I am going to England in July for 10 days to go to the 1930's Air Day at Old
Warden as well as the PFA Rally in Kemble. I was hoping to catch up with
them.
chris
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Searching for Pietenpol People
>
> Group,
> I'm still trying to contact everyone I can, to see if they would like to
be
> included in the 'Pietenpol Infomation List'. I got most of these names
from
> Doc Mosher's 'Pietenpol Owner Directory'. It's a long list. Please
e-mail me
> direct, if you know the e-mail address of any of these people.
>
> Names I need e-mail for:
> Dick Alkire
> Mark Anderson
> Ken Anderson
> Raffaele (Domenic) Bellissimo
> Tom Brown
> William Conway
> Tim Cunningham
> Owen Davies
> Richard DeCosta
> Bill Emo
> DL Grammont
> John Greenlee
> Dennis Hall
> Jeff Hill
> Chad Johnson
> Ron Kaser
> Brian Kenny
> Jim Kensella
> Bill Knight
> John Langston
> michael list
> Frank Lowell
> Jim Malley
> Tim Mickle
> Paul Morton
> Larry Neal
> Frank Pavliga
> Matt Paxton
> Kyle Ray
> J R Reber
> Bill Rewey
> Lee Schiek
> David B. Schober
> Bob Seibert
> Warren Shoun
> Brad Schultz
> Mehlin Smith
> Hank Stein
> Randy Stockberger
> Alan Swanson
> Bill Talbert
> Duane woolsey
> Leo Powning
> Simon MacCormack
> Doug Reeve
> Doug CGCGJ
> Garth Upton
> Leo Ponton
> Claude Plathey
> James V Vahary
> Mike Lisenbra
> Scott Liefield
> Richard W Franklin
> Michael A Jewett
> Carl R Adams
> Thomas e. Bowdler
> Earl M. Klebs
> John Davolt
> Warren Timmerman
> Leroy D. Swenson
> Jim Hampton
> Gary McArthur
> Robert H. Meier
> Richard C. Kohm
> Robert H. Meier
> Manuel Sparks
> Blane E. Tower
> Jerry Fogg
> Steven T. Miller
> Harry J. Winslow
> Willard Talley
> Lewis Jennings
> Marvin Grout
> William C. Hooper
> Mehlin B. Smith
> Lester M. Talent
> Clarence Salmon
> Douglas P. Rohde
> Bud C. Johnson
> Jobeth Barrett
> Don B. Brooks
> Thomas N. Terning
> Robert D. Bell
> Peter Smith
> Stephen C. Bowman
> Donald H. Reynolds
> Edward M. Strackbein
> Hayden Gildersleeve
> A. P. Hurst
> J. V. Mesdag
> James K. Stark Jr.
> Tilman Thomas Jr.
> Dennis Hall
> Clifford Kumm
> Robert L. Linton
> Kevin T. McDonald
> William O. Smith
> Randy W. Wieden
> John D. Killian
> Wilbur C. Graff
> Howard B. Twibell
> Paul E. Roy
> Peter L. Korwin
> Thomas Reedy
> Edward M. Sampson
> Vintage Aviation Services Inc.
> Terry Brandt
> Albert E. Koons
> Mark A. Anderson
> Sylvester K. Heller
> Hans C. Egsgaard
> John L. Kerr
> Cass County Historical Society
> Museum of the Rockies
> 12937 EAA
> Edward M. Sampson
> Vitalis Kapler
> Larry & Ilse Harmacinski
> Airpower Museum Inc.
> Walter C. Bowe
> James F. Hammond
> Jack M. Maki
> John H. Shoemaker
> David Rezin
> John J. Felton
> James O. Potter
> Donald F. Buckman
> James J. Dean
> David O. Harris
> Gary Baglien
> Lonnie L. Tucker
> Air Museum City of Liberal
> William E. Borie
> Milestones of Flight Museum
> Zara H. Royal
> Marshall D. Welch
> William J. Marshall
> Maurice T. Way
> Gary M. Gingrich
> Kevin L. Helf
> Handy D. Gilbert
> Lowell J. Durham
> Lawrence D. Becker
> Bradford Schultz
> Fletcher A. Burns
> Derry D. Dettmer
> Ernie W. Moreno
> Rodney C. Eig
> Richard P. Alkire
> Steven C. Mourer
> James W. Wallace
> Edward M. Popejoy
> Christopher Jacobs
> Larry Harrison
> Eugene L. Hershey
> Gene W. Hoffman
> William E. VanHorn
> Joseph F. Sheble III
> Fred H. Dexter
> Herbert J. Townsend
> Wayne D. Lord
> Richard I. Hill
> Donald P. Campbell
> Michael E. Holcomb
> Donald H. Walter
> J. R. Reber
> Pete Pittinger
> Merle Smith
> Warren Simpson
> James Ballew
> Flying Dutchman Inc. (Ted Brousseau)
> Tom H. Mathes
> Wilbur C. Volker
> David W. Doherty
> Donald R. Doherty
> William S. Doherty
> Paul S. DiMascio
> Kenneth Perkins
> Paul F. Hamilton
> Texas Air Museum
> Robert L. Ross
> Gene E. Martinson
> William J. Masson
> Art Holiman
> Kerri Ann Prict
> David G. Briers
> Edward J. Snyder
> William F. McKee
> James W. Tillery
> Alva A. Owen
> Mitchel J. Burns
> Hiller Aviation Museum
> Sue Wayne
> Thomas H. Lubben
> David A. Beckett
> Joseph Sexton
> Ray Fanchamps
> Phillip T. Kapp
> Allan J. Wise
> Travis M. Gregory
> Kelly D. Tippetts
> Kim Stricker
> Van R. Weinman
> August A. Draffkorn
> Joseph Vinciquarra
> H. J. Judkins
> Charles D. VanWalker
> Paul G. Castine
> Ronald C. VanKnowe
> Dennis Davitt
> Harold Straw
> Alex P. Whitmore Jr.
> H & N Aero Inc. (Bill Davis
> Eaton C. Green
> Mike Williams
> Thomas L. Brown
> Felix Quast
> Richard Hatch
> B. J. Powell
> William J. Pratt
> Terry A. Richardson
> John W. Watson
> Gilbert D. McKessy
> Rick L. Anderson
> Joseph W. Santana
> Edward R. Mason
> Liberty Flying Service Inc.
> John D. Puent
> Lowell C. Frank
> Carl J. Pitcher
> Jack B. Singer
> Evertt G. Downey
> Jan B. Mock
> Monte M. Miller
> Antique Airplane Corp. (Robt Taylor)
> Charles H. Smith
> Peter Kesling
> Larry R. Pasley
> David S. Adams
> Daniel B. Benner
> Sam Bruce
> Ronnie L. Johnston
> Robert E. Lipper
> Kyle R. Bradford
> Gordon W. Glodo
> Melvin D. Marquette
> Donald L. Mains
> Robert L. Cozine
> Jesse C. Enke III
> Jim Malley
> Warren C. Weisenbach
> EAA Ch 37
> Doug T. Rounds
> Ted E. Davis
> Mehlin B. Smith
> Gary Karner
> Don Grubbs
> Carl Loar
> Gregory L. Utley
> Richard L. Berstling
> John R. Wolf
> John H. Simpson
> Sanford W. Love
> Paul E. Sherman
> Samuel F. Hambleton
> Gary A. Norton
> Wayne T. Norton
> Donald W. Halloran
> Kenneth M. Dilks
> Ryder Olsen
> Edward F. Ripplinger
> Lawrence A. Cowell
> Michael G. Kimbrel
> Roger F. Love
> William B. Duncan
> Paul D. Dougherty
> James R. Brukeen
> Howard Holman
> Wilbur C. Johnson
> Dale A. Calchuff
> Frederick M. Gleiter
> Ron Vanderhart
> David R. Karren
> Andy Anderson
> Phil J. Rutten
> Joseph Fedelem
> Jerry G. Standing
> Daniel C. Cork Jr.
> Robert Komishock
> Glen L. Hepner
> Joseph m. Czaplicki
> Elinor Elg-Jones
> James T. Wren
> Donald W. Patrick
> James W. Goodwin
> David C. Gerbitz
> Duane E. Merchant
> C. Gordon Amudson
> Lance S. Fleming
> Duane R. Duea
> Alex Fasolili
> William D. Rowe
> V. R. Davis Arista J. Smith
> Joseph P. Orlando
> Thurman M. Luxford
> Five Aces, Inc.
> Alan Bergren
> Bud Rhodes
> Fred Johnson
> Donald R. Brenner
> Joann S. Painter
> Weneth D. Painter
> Arthur L. Millay
> Walter A. Beyer
> Ray R. Martin
> Robert D. DePratti Jr.
> Roger White
> Jimmy J. Davenport
> Loyd H. Shropshire
> C & S Engineering Co. (Hohn Paul Gagnon)
> Richard M. West
> Ronald H. Elliott
> Noel Quinones
> Steven O'Donnell
> Kevin P. Hueser
> Jack Deibert
> David J. Anderson
> Donald R. Brewer
> Daniel T. Towery
> Andrew Zammetti
> Michael Brusilow
> David L. Cleveland
> Patrick W. Rose
> William J. Haynes B & W Enterprises
> Daniel J. Taylor
> Leonard A. Brooks
> Air & Sea
> Craig R. Lawler
> Jay Bosch
> John E. McCarthy
> Jim A. Sury
> George Skistmas
> William D. Rowe
> Duane Stockton
> Loyd J. Cox
> Michael J. Troy
> Brian J, Herreman
> John Haavisto
> Dennis Vetter
> Chester Davis
> William A. Lange Jr.
> Siegfried Werners
> John I. Warren
> Jerry L. Logan
> Theordore J Myers
> Harley A. Dahler
> Peter W. Schiffel
> David Karren
> Henry C. Hays
> Mike King
> Bill R. Preece
> Fred T Schmucker
> Martin A Vandenbrock
> Frank Dilman
> Jim Kinsella
> Dwayne D. Tulba
> Robert H. Greenwall
> David D. Petrocsko
> Joe Gibson
> Leon W. Slocum
> Jefferson H. Triplett
> Larry D. Harrison
> Bill Poiry
> Robert M. Hubbard
> Gail Acrft Engrg Co.
> Timothy W. Sefcik
> Harvey Planes LLC
> Lavaun M. Raaf
> Richard D. Tichy
> Lewis A Jennings
> Joseph Farkas
> William S. Knight
> Richard M. Carpenter
> John L. Overholser
> Joyce A. Hunt
> Harry K. Olsson
> Allan Mirkin
> Andrew C. Pietenpol
> James O Kearns
> Robin J. Passley
> Ryan G. Shepherd
> Don Schexnayder
> EAA Chapter 827
> Stephen Miller
> Thomas E. Bowdler
> Robert S. Nevin Jr.
> Thomas P. Paiement
> Richard Farwell
> Dream Aircraft Inc. (Clyde Buckley)
> Brad R. Schultz
> Craig R. Lawler
> Warren D. Bliss
> Deward D. Peterson
> David E. Jones
> Richard E. Wood
> Edward L. Sigman
> Maryann Dunn
> John M. Greenlee
> Joseph T. Kohler
> Ronald L. Jansen
> Melvin Green
> Theodore H. Bradley
> Tim Cunningham
> Thomas E. Fahy
> Dennis J. Heiny
> James E. Marshall
> Feffrey L. Austin
> Regis J. Fisher
> James L. Belknap
> Thomas A. Baker
> Robert H. Miller
> Lawrence C. Kropp
> Rodney L. Schrader
> Elmer C. Church
> Walter I. Groskurth
> Harold N. Downing
> Arch L. Howard
> Donald E. Meagher
> Thomas J. Young
> Ronald D. Bloomquist
> James R. Carr
> Virl B. Deal
> John E. Emmerson
> James E. Emmerson
> Freddie G. Emmerson
> Kevin Ross
> Daniel Patterson
> Quonset Air Museum
> Brian W. Swanson
> Charles E. Rubeck
> Cecil E. Boyd Jr.
> Ernest M. Bridgers
> Loyd R. Brents
> Malcom D. Muir
> Robert Bozeman
> Carroll G. Allen
> Joseph Leonard
> Donald Campbell
> Elaine C. Roehrig
> Joshua Harrel
> Floyd E. Shewmaker Jr.
> Richard L. Barfield
> Timothy TrueWalter Fuller
> Frederick F. Baker
> Jerome E. Hahn
> Virgil J. Phillips
> Science Museum of Virginia
> George A. Grant
> Robert E. Kamerman
> David L. Wheatley
> Larry & Julie Robbins
> Mark A. Anderson
> Mack A. Buswell
> Gary M. Goodman
> David A. Atnip
> David O. Thompson
> Edward M. Strackbein
> James T. Vandervort
> Charles B. Kile
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | G-BUCO's email address |
I am looking for Alan James' (G-BUCO)email address. The one he used when he
once subscribed to this list does not appear to work. This is the same address
that shows on the UK Piet website. Does anybody have another email address
for him?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tolerances and T-88 |
| From: | john e fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
writes:
> I now have cut the pieces for my test stabilizer and am going to be
> using the T-88 to put it together. My question is, how large a gap
> will T-88 safely fill? The largest is about 1/16th". Would T-88
> safely fill a gap that large? When I start building to fly I will
> be using better tools and able to keep the tolerances much tighter.
Sometimes when I had a gap to fill, I would cut a piece of 1/16" plywood
or 1/32" plywood to fit in the gap. Coat it with T-88 well on both sides
and slide it in to fill the gap. On most of these joints, the member is
being held in place by the gussets, so this will not effect the actual
strength of the joint.
John Fay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | G-BUCO's email address |
Chris,
Try this gbucojames(at)hotmail.com
Peter.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christian
Bobka
Subject: Pietenpol-List: G-BUCO's email address
I am looking for Alan James' (G-BUCO)email address. The one he used when he
once subscribed to this list does not appear to work. This is the same
address that shows on the UK Piet website. Does anybody have another email
address for him?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | G-BUCO's email address |
Chris-- I just got an e-mail from Arthur Mason who built one of the first
Piets in England and he might know of Alan James' e-mail.
Arthur is at: arthur.mason(at)tiscali.co.uk
Ironically, Arthur is coming to the states he says for several weeks about
the same time that you will be over there. He hopes to attend
Brodhead. A photo of Arthur's Piet attached. Hope it was not too big
a file for dial-up users.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: G-BUCO's email address |
gbucojames(at)hotmail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: G-BUCO's email address
Chris-- I just got an e-mail from Arthur Mason who built one of the first
Piets in England and he might know of Alan James' e-mail.
Arthur is at: arthur.mason(at)tiscali.co.uk
Ironically, Arthur is coming to the states he says for several weeks about
the same time that you will be over there. He hopes to attend
Brodhead. A photo of Arthur's Piet attached. Hope it was not too big
a file for dial-up users.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | At7000ft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Costs of Fabric Covering |
Steve
Why is it best not to spray latex paint?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In 1997 I used Sherwin Williams gloss house paint. No problems with
fading or cracking. It even spent two years outside. I'd do it again,
just not with an airless sprayer in 85 degree weather. Brush or roll in
cool weather, and it rivals poly fiber. As for repairability, I just
got my first chance to try it and I'll let you know. Minor touch-ups
have been invisible after a week. I did it because I was young and poor
at the time. I'd do it again because it has stood up fine, and it is
cheap.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Costs of Fabric Covering |
I hope it's ok. I built an HVLP setup and hope to use it when the time
comes!
jm
----- Original Message -----
From: <At7000ft(at)aol.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Costs of Fabric Covering
>
> Steve
>
> Why is it best not to spray latex paint?
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> In 1997 I used Sherwin Williams gloss house paint. No problems with
> fading or cracking. It even spent two years outside. I'd do it again,
> just not with an airless sprayer in 85 degree weather. Brush or roll in
> cool weather, and it rivals poly fiber. As for repairability, I just
> got my first chance to try it and I'll let you know. Minor touch-ups
> have been invisible after a week. I did it because I was young and poor
> at the time. I'd do it again because it has stood up fine, and it is
> cheap.
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Costs of Fabric Covering |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I had problems with a lack of control of the spray pattern, and the
pumping action left pulses of paint if the light hits it right. Also I
was trying to spray when it was too hot, and the paint dried quickly not
allowing a full blending into adjacent paint lines.
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
At7000ft(at)aol.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Costs of Fabric Covering
Steve
Why is it best not to spray latex paint?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In 1997 I used Sherwin Williams gloss house paint. No problems with
fading or cracking. It even spent two years outside. I'd do it again,
just not with an airless sprayer in 85 degree weather. Brush or roll in
cool weather, and it rivals poly fiber. As for repairability, I just
got my first chance to try it and I'll let you know. Minor touch-ups
have been invisible after a week. I did it because I was young and poor
at the time. I'd do it again because it has stood up fine, and it is
cheap.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | beter to use an airless rig |
Jim,
I forgot to add that if you insist on spraying latex, you might be better
off with a sprayless rig.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Costs of Fabric Covering |
I don't think latex will work in an HVLP. It is too viscuous, even with the
proper tips. I sprayed my garage door in Coppell with latex in a Croix HVLP
rig with the proper tip and it needed to be thinned with water a bunch and
when it dried, it spiderwebbed.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Costs of Fabric Covering
>
> I hope it's ok. I built an HVLP setup and hope to use it when the time
> comes!
>
> jm
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <At7000ft(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:42 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Costs of Fabric Covering
>
>
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > Why is it best not to spray latex paint?
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > In 1997 I used Sherwin Williams gloss house paint. No problems with
> > fading or cracking. It even spent two years outside. I'd do it again,
> > just not with an airless sprayer in 85 degree weather. Brush or roll in
> > cool weather, and it rivals poly fiber. As for repairability, I just
> > got my first chance to try it and I'll let you know. Minor touch-ups
> > have been invisible after a week. I did it because I was young and poor
> > at the time. I'd do it again because it has stood up fine, and it is
> > cheap.
> > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Costs of Fabric Covering |
I had similar problems trying to spray latex paint. I thinned it out but
still had little blobs form. I wet sanded and went back to the roller.
Simple and easy to control.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Costs of Fabric Covering
>
> I had problems with a lack of control of the spray pattern, and the
> pumping action left pulses of paint if the light hits it right. Also I
> was trying to spray when it was too hot, and the paint dried quickly not
> allowing a full blending into adjacent paint lines.
>
> Steve E
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> At7000ft(at)aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 1:42 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Costs of Fabric Covering
>
>
> Steve
>
> Why is it best not to spray latex paint?
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> In 1997 I used Sherwin Williams gloss house paint. No problems with
> fading or cracking. It even spent two years outside. I'd do it again,
> just not with an airless sprayer in 85 degree weather. Brush or roll in
> cool weather, and it rivals poly fiber. As for repairability, I just
> got my first chance to try it and I'll let you know. Minor touch-ups
> have been invisible after a week. I did it because I was young and poor
> at the time. I'd do it again because it has stood up fine, and it is
> cheap.
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
>
> ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Costs of Fabric Covering |
It's a bit of a pain, it needs an additive to keep from clogging up the
spray gun. Latex brushes on beautifully anyway.
At7000ft(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Steve
>
> Why is it best not to spray latex paint?
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> In 1997 I used Sherwin Williams gloss house paint. No problems with
> fading or cracking. It even spent two years outside. I'd do it again,
> just not with an airless sprayer in 85 degree weather. Brush or roll in
> cool weather, and it rivals poly fiber. As for repairability, I just
> got my first chance to try it and I'll let you know. Minor touch-ups
> have been invisible after a week. I did it because I was young and poor
> at the time. I'd do it again because it has stood up fine, and it is
> cheap.
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Costs of Fabric Covering |
This reply is coming from the voice of inexperience, as I have never
attempted to spray latex. But I have read that in order to successfully
spray latex, you must add FLOETROL, which I have seen on the shelves at Home
Depot. I have also read that an acceptable, and very readily available and
inexpensive alternative to FLOETROL is ordinary automotive windshield washer
fluid. If anyone out there knows if this is true or, more importantly,
false, please let everyone else know, as I would rather not be the spreader
of falsehoods. As I said before, I read it, I didn't make it up.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
It's a bit of a pain, it needs an additive to keep from clogging up the
spray gun. Latex brushes on beautifully anyway.
At7000ft(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Steve
>
> Why is it best not to spray latex paint?
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> In 1997 I used Sherwin Williams gloss house paint. No problems with
> fading or cracking. It even spent two years outside. I'd do it again,
> just not with an airless sprayer in 85 degree weather. Brush or roll in
> cool weather, and it rivals poly fiber. As for repairability, I just
> got my first chance to try it and I'll let you know. Minor touch-ups
> have been invisible after a week. I did it because I was young and poor
> at the time. I'd do it again because it has stood up fine, and it is
> cheap.
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Costs of Fabric Covering |
I just went through this while painting my house. I bought a
Campbell-Hausfeld HVLP spray gun that said it was specifically for spraying
latex paints. It was about $55 at Lowes. I added the Floetrol as
directed... and it didn't work. I added water to thin it... and it didn't
work. I finally had to add so much water to get it to spray that it was
just too thin in my opinion. It sprayed real nice for only about 20
seconds, then the tip would clog up and I had to stop and clean it. Very
frustrating. I ended up painting the whole house with a brush (my wife did
most of it actually).
I did follow the directions in the HVLP gun manual to the letter and also
went through a lot of trial and error with the air pressure, etc. but just
couldn't get it to work for more than the 20 seconds.
>From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'"
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Costs of Fabric Covering
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:36:50 -0400
>
>
>This reply is coming from the voice of inexperience, as I have never
>attempted to spray latex. But I have read that in order to successfully
>spray latex, you must add FLOETROL, which I have seen on the shelves at
>Home
>Depot. I have also read that an acceptable, and very readily available and
>inexpensive alternative to FLOETROL is ordinary automotive windshield
>washer
>fluid. If anyone out there knows if this is true or, more importantly,
>false, please let everyone else know, as I would rather not be the spreader
>of falsehoods. As I said before, I read it, I didn't make it up.
>
>Bill
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>
>It's a bit of a pain, it needs an additive to keep from clogging up the
>spray gun. Latex brushes on beautifully anyway.
>
>At7000ft(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > Why is it best not to spray latex paint?
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > In 1997 I used Sherwin Williams gloss house paint. No problems with
> > fading or cracking. It even spent two years outside. I'd do it again,
> > just not with an airless sprayer in 85 degree weather. Brush or roll in
> > cool weather, and it rivals poly fiber. As for repairability, I just
> > got my first chance to try it and I'll let you know. Minor touch-ups
> > have been invisible after a week. I did it because I was young and poor
> > at the time. I'd do it again because it has stood up fine, and it is
> > cheap.
> > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Costs of Fabric Covering |
I've done a lot of HVLP spraying with Latex and Floetrol and it worked fine.
Setup/mixtures/tip sizes/etc were a bit critical but after it's setup, it
works well.
But the more I think about Steve's E.'s comment about using a
roller/brush.....the better I like it.....
I think I'll limit my latex/HVLP jobs to house trim and Adirondak
chairs......
jm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805(at)msn.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: RE: Costs of Fabric Covering
>
> I just went through this while painting my house. I bought a
> Campbell-Hausfeld HVLP spray gun that said it was specifically for
spraying
> latex paints. It was about $55 at Lowes. I added the Floetrol as
> directed... and it didn't work. I added water to thin it... and it didn't
> work. I finally had to add so much water to get it to spray that it was
> just too thin in my opinion. It sprayed real nice for only about 20
> seconds, then the tip would clog up and I had to stop and clean it. Very
> frustrating. I ended up painting the whole house with a brush (my wife
did
> most of it actually).
>
> I did follow the directions in the HVLP gun manual to the letter and also
> went through a lot of trial and error with the air pressure, etc. but just
> couldn't get it to work for more than the 20 seconds.
>
>
> >From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: "'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'"
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Costs of Fabric Covering
> >Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:36:50 -0400
> >
> >
> >This reply is coming from the voice of inexperience, as I have never
> >attempted to spray latex. But I have read that in order to successfully
> >spray latex, you must add FLOETROL, which I have seen on the shelves at
> >Home
> >Depot. I have also read that an acceptable, and very readily available
and
> >inexpensive alternative to FLOETROL is ordinary automotive windshield
> >washer
> >fluid. If anyone out there knows if this is true or, more importantly,
> >false, please let everyone else know, as I would rather not be the
spreader
> >of falsehoods. As I said before, I read it, I didn't make it up.
> >
> >Bill
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >
> >
> >It's a bit of a pain, it needs an additive to keep from clogging up the
> >spray gun. Latex brushes on beautifully anyway.
> >
> >At7000ft(at)aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > Why is it best not to spray latex paint?
> > >
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > In 1997 I used Sherwin Williams gloss house paint. No problems with
> > > fading or cracking. It even spent two years outside. I'd do it
again,
> > > just not with an airless sprayer in 85 degree weather. Brush or roll
in
> > > cool weather, and it rivals poly fiber. As for repairability, I just
> > > got my first chance to try it and I'll let you know. Minor touch-ups
> > > have been invisible after a week. I did it because I was young and
poor
> > > at the time. I'd do it again because it has stood up fine, and it is
> > > cheap.
> > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "malcolm Zirges" <macz(at)macsells.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Searching for Pietenpol People |
Hello. I don't seem to be on the list, but I have been building a Piet
since 1969 and have it all framed up and ready to assemble. I have only
been to Brodhead the last few years so don't know many of the Piet "gang"
personally.
Cordially, Mac Zirges in Oregon
macz(at)macsells.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Searching for Pietenpol People
>
> Group,
> I'm still trying to contact everyone I can, to see if they would like to
be
> included in the 'Pietenpol Infomation List'. I got most of these names
from
> Doc Mosher's 'Pietenpol Owner Directory'. It's a long list. Please
e-mail me
> direct, if you know the e-mail address of any of these people.
>
> Names I need e-mail for:
> Dick Alkire
> Mark Anderson
> Ken Anderson
> Raffaele (Domenic) Bellissimo
> Tom Brown
> William Conway
> Tim Cunningham
> Owen Davies
> Richard DeCosta
> Bill Emo
> DL Grammont
> John Greenlee
> Dennis Hall
> Jeff Hill
> Chad Johnson
> Ron Kaser
> Brian Kenny
> Jim Kensella
> Bill Knight
> John Langston
> michael list
> Frank Lowell
> Jim Malley
> Tim Mickle
> Paul Morton
> Larry Neal
> Frank Pavliga
> Matt Paxton
> Kyle Ray
> J R Reber
> Bill Rewey
> Lee Schiek
> David B. Schober
> Bob Seibert
> Warren Shoun
> Brad Schultz
> Mehlin Smith
> Hank Stein
> Randy Stockberger
> Alan Swanson
> Bill Talbert
> Duane woolsey
> Leo Powning
> Simon MacCormack
> Doug Reeve
> Doug CGCGJ
> Garth Upton
> Leo Ponton
> Claude Plathey
> James V Vahary
> Mike Lisenbra
> Scott Liefield
> Richard W Franklin
> Michael A Jewett
> Carl R Adams
> Thomas e. Bowdler
> Earl M. Klebs
> John Davolt
> Warren Timmerman
> Leroy D. Swenson
> Jim Hampton
> Gary McArthur
> Robert H. Meier
> Richard C. Kohm
> Robert H. Meier
> Manuel Sparks
> Blane E. Tower
> Jerry Fogg
> Steven T. Miller
> Harry J. Winslow
> Willard Talley
> Lewis Jennings
> Marvin Grout
> William C. Hooper
> Mehlin B. Smith
> Lester M. Talent
> Clarence Salmon
> Douglas P. Rohde
> Bud C. Johnson
> Jobeth Barrett
> Don B. Brooks
> Thomas N. Terning
> Robert D. Bell
> Peter Smith
> Stephen C. Bowman
> Donald H. Reynolds
> Edward M. Strackbein
> Hayden Gildersleeve
> A. P. Hurst
> J. V. Mesdag
> James K. Stark Jr.
> Tilman Thomas Jr.
> Dennis Hall
> Clifford Kumm
> Robert L. Linton
> Kevin T. McDonald
> William O. Smith
> Randy W. Wieden
> John D. Killian
> Wilbur C. Graff
> Howard B. Twibell
> Paul E. Roy
> Peter L. Korwin
> Thomas Reedy
> Edward M. Sampson
> Vintage Aviation Services Inc.
> Terry Brandt
> Albert E. Koons
> Mark A. Anderson
> Sylvester K. Heller
> Hans C. Egsgaard
> John L. Kerr
> Cass County Historical Society
> Museum of the Rockies
> 12937 EAA
> Edward M. Sampson
> Vitalis Kapler
> Larry & Ilse Harmacinski
> Airpower Museum Inc.
> Walter C. Bowe
> James F. Hammond
> Jack M. Maki
> John H. Shoemaker
> David Rezin
> John J. Felton
> James O. Potter
> Donald F. Buckman
> James J. Dean
> David O. Harris
> Gary Baglien
> Lonnie L. Tucker
> Air Museum City of Liberal
> William E. Borie
> Milestones of Flight Museum
> Zara H. Royal
> Marshall D. Welch
> William J. Marshall
> Maurice T. Way
> Gary M. Gingrich
> Kevin L. Helf
> Handy D. Gilbert
> Lowell J. Durham
> Lawrence D. Becker
> Bradford Schultz
> Fletcher A. Burns
> Derry D. Dettmer
> Ernie W. Moreno
> Rodney C. Eig
> Richard P. Alkire
> Steven C. Mourer
> James W. Wallace
> Edward M. Popejoy
> Christopher Jacobs
> Larry Harrison
> Eugene L. Hershey
> Gene W. Hoffman
> William E. VanHorn
> Joseph F. Sheble III
> Fred H. Dexter
> Herbert J. Townsend
> Wayne D. Lord
> Richard I. Hill
> Donald P. Campbell
> Michael E. Holcomb
> Donald H. Walter
> J. R. Reber
> Pete Pittinger
> Merle Smith
> Warren Simpson
> James Ballew
> Flying Dutchman Inc. (Ted Brousseau)
> Tom H. Mathes
> Wilbur C. Volker
> David W. Doherty
> Donald R. Doherty
> William S. Doherty
> Paul S. DiMascio
> Kenneth Perkins
> Paul F. Hamilton
> Texas Air Museum
> Robert L. Ross
> Gene E. Martinson
> William J. Masson
> Art Holiman
> Kerri Ann Prict
> David G. Briers
> Edward J. Snyder
> William F. McKee
> James W. Tillery
> Alva A. Owen
> Mitchel J. Burns
> Hiller Aviation Museum
> Sue Wayne
> Thomas H. Lubben
> David A. Beckett
> Joseph Sexton
> Ray Fanchamps
> Phillip T. Kapp
> Allan J. Wise
> Travis M. Gregory
> Kelly D. Tippetts
> Kim Stricker
> Van R. Weinman
> August A. Draffkorn
> Joseph Vinciquarra
> H. J. Judkins
> Charles D. VanWalker
> Paul G. Castine
> Ronald C. VanKnowe
> Dennis Davitt
> Harold Straw
> Alex P. Whitmore Jr.
> H & N Aero Inc. (Bill Davis
> Eaton C. Green
> Mike Williams
> Thomas L. Brown
> Felix Quast
> Richard Hatch
> B. J. Powell
> William J. Pratt
> Terry A. Richardson
> John W. Watson
> Gilbert D. McKessy
> Rick L. Anderson
> Joseph W. Santana
> Edward R. Mason
> Liberty Flying Service Inc.
> John D. Puent
> Lowell C. Frank
> Carl J. Pitcher
> Jack B. Singer
> Evertt G. Downey
> Jan B. Mock
> Monte M. Miller
> Antique Airplane Corp. (Robt Taylor)
> Charles H. Smith
> Peter Kesling
> Larry R. Pasley
> David S. Adams
> Daniel B. Benner
> Sam Bruce
> Ronnie L. Johnston
> Robert E. Lipper
> Kyle R. Bradford
> Gordon W. Glodo
> Melvin D. Marquette
> Donald L. Mains
> Robert L. Cozine
> Jesse C. Enke III
> Jim Malley
> Warren C. Weisenbach
> EAA Ch 37
> Doug T. Rounds
> Ted E. Davis
> Mehlin B. Smith
> Gary Karner
> Don Grubbs
> Carl Loar
> Gregory L. Utley
> Richard L. Berstling
> John R. Wolf
> John H. Simpson
> Sanford W. Love
> Paul E. Sherman
> Samuel F. Hambleton
> Gary A. Norton
> Wayne T. Norton
> Donald W. Halloran
> Kenneth M. Dilks
> Ryder Olsen
> Edward F. Ripplinger
> Lawrence A. Cowell
> Michael G. Kimbrel
> Roger F. Love
> William B. Duncan
> Paul D. Dougherty
> James R. Brukeen
> Howard Holman
> Wilbur C. Johnson
> Dale A. Calchuff
> Frederick M. Gleiter
> Ron Vanderhart
> David R. Karren
> Andy Anderson
> Phil J. Rutten
> Joseph Fedelem
> Jerry G. Standing
> Daniel C. Cork Jr.
> Robert Komishock
> Glen L. Hepner
> Joseph m. Czaplicki
> Elinor Elg-Jones
> James T. Wren
> Donald W. Patrick
> James W. Goodwin
> David C. Gerbitz
> Duane E. Merchant
> C. Gordon Amudson
> Lance S. Fleming
> Duane R. Duea
> Alex Fasolili
> William D. Rowe
> V. R. Davis Arista J. Smith
> Joseph P. Orlando
> Thurman M. Luxford
> Five Aces, Inc.
> Alan Bergren
> Bud Rhodes
> Fred Johnson
> Donald R. Brenner
> Joann S. Painter
> Weneth D. Painter
> Arthur L. Millay
> Walter A. Beyer
> Ray R. Martin
> Robert D. DePratti Jr.
> Roger White
> Jimmy J. Davenport
> Loyd H. Shropshire
> C & S Engineering Co. (Hohn Paul Gagnon)
> Richard M. West
> Ronald H. Elliott
> Noel Quinones
> Steven O'Donnell
> Kevin P. Hueser
> Jack Deibert
> David J. Anderson
> Donald R. Brewer
> Daniel T. Towery
> Andrew Zammetti
> Michael Brusilow
> David L. Cleveland
> Patrick W. Rose
> William J. Haynes B & W Enterprises
> Daniel J. Taylor
> Leonard A. Brooks
> Air & Sea
> Craig R. Lawler
> Jay Bosch
> John E. McCarthy
> Jim A. Sury
> George Skistmas
> William D. Rowe
> Duane Stockton
> Loyd J. Cox
> Michael J. Troy
> Brian J, Herreman
> John Haavisto
> Dennis Vetter
> Chester Davis
> William A. Lange Jr.
> Siegfried Werners
> John I. Warren
> Jerry L. Logan
> Theordore J Myers
> Harley A. Dahler
> Peter W. Schiffel
> David Karren
> Henry C. Hays
> Mike King
> Bill R. Preece
> Fred T Schmucker
> Martin A Vandenbrock
> Frank Dilman
> Jim Kinsella
> Dwayne D. Tulba
> Robert H. Greenwall
> David D. Petrocsko
> Joe Gibson
> Leon W. Slocum
> Jefferson H. Triplett
> Larry D. Harrison
> Bill Poiry
> Robert M. Hubbard
> Gail Acrft Engrg Co.
> Timothy W. Sefcik
> Harvey Planes LLC
> Lavaun M. Raaf
> Richard D. Tichy
> Lewis A Jennings
> Joseph Farkas
> William S. Knight
> Richard M. Carpenter
> John L. Overholser
> Joyce A. Hunt
> Harry K. Olsson
> Allan Mirkin
> Andrew C. Pietenpol
> James O Kearns
> Robin J. Passley
> Ryan G. Shepherd
> Don Schexnayder
> EAA Chapter 827
> Stephen Miller
> Thomas E. Bowdler
> Robert S. Nevin Jr.
> Thomas P. Paiement
> Richard Farwell
> Dream Aircraft Inc. (Clyde Buckley)
> Brad R. Schultz
> Craig R. Lawler
> Warren D. Bliss
> Deward D. Peterson
> David E. Jones
> Richard E. Wood
> Edward L. Sigman
> Maryann Dunn
> John M. Greenlee
> Joseph T. Kohler
> Ronald L. Jansen
> Melvin Green
> Theodore H. Bradley
> Tim Cunningham
> Thomas E. Fahy
> Dennis J. Heiny
> James E. Marshall
> Feffrey L. Austin
> Regis J. Fisher
> James L. Belknap
> Thomas A. Baker
> Robert H. Miller
> Lawrence C. Kropp
> Rodney L. Schrader
> Elmer C. Church
> Walter I. Groskurth
> Harold N. Downing
> Arch L. Howard
> Donald E. Meagher
> Thomas J. Young
> Ronald D. Bloomquist
> James R. Carr
> Virl B. Deal
> John E. Emmerson
> James E. Emmerson
> Freddie G. Emmerson
> Kevin Ross
> Daniel Patterson
> Quonset Air Museum
> Brian W. Swanson
> Charles E. Rubeck
> Cecil E. Boyd Jr.
> Ernest M. Bridgers
> Loyd R. Brents
> Malcom D. Muir
> Robert Bozeman
> Carroll G. Allen
> Joseph Leonard
> Donald Campbell
> Elaine C. Roehrig
> Joshua Harrel
> Floyd E. Shewmaker Jr.
> Richard L. Barfield
> Timothy TrueWalter Fuller
> Frederick F. Baker
> Jerome E. Hahn
> Virgil J. Phillips
> Science Museum of Virginia
> George A. Grant
> Robert E. Kamerman
> David L. Wheatley
> Larry & Julie Robbins
> Mark A. Anderson
> Mack A. Buswell
> Gary M. Goodman
> David A. Atnip
> David O. Thompson
> Edward M. Strackbein
> James T. Vandervort
> Charles B. Kile
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Costs of Fabric Covering |
Read these sites ;
http://www.lightminiatureaircraft.com/generic34.htmlSubject:
http://www.modelairplanenews.com/how_to/latex1.asp
http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/paintinguls.htm
http://www.renderwurx.com/rc/SBD/html/paint/paint.htm
http://www.questiongravity.com/airbike/latex1.htm
And if all else fails, check the archives-lots more there.
Clif
>
> This reply is coming from the voice of inexperience, as I have never
> attempted to spray latex. But I have read that in order to successfully
> spray latex, you must add FLOETROL, which I have seen on the shelves at
Home
> Depot. I have also read that an acceptable, and very readily available and
> inexpensive alternative to FLOETROL is ordinary automotive windshield
washer
> fluid. If anyone out there knows if this is true or, more importantly,
> false, please let everyone else know, as I would rather not be the
spreader
> of falsehoods. As I said before, I read it, I didn't make it up.
>
> Bill
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Flop latches, intake system and more |
Several weeks ago some of you had requested some pics of my Flop latches....
well...I finally have taken the time to shoot some pics.
here's a couple
http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/images/05-16-04/flop-latch-1.jpg
http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/images/05-16-04/flop-latch-2.jpg
http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/images/05-16-04/flop-latch-3.jpg
Also, I just finished installing my Corvair intake system, Stromberg carb,
carb heat box, John Deere generator, and spinner. Pics and more here:
http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/05-02-04.htm
http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/05-14-04.htm
http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/04-26-04.htm
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
"Craig Nelson" ,
"Dan Carroll" , "David Kujawa" ,
"Ed Hansen" , "Frankh" ,
"Greg" , "Greg Cardinal" ,
"Jeff Coffey" , "Michael Dolan" ,
"Patrick Halligan" , "Pete Gavin" ,
"Peter Denny" ,
"Peter Denny" ,
"Rob Johnston" , "Ron Hoyt" ,
"Ron Oehler" , "Steve Adkins" ,
"Flitzer" ,
"Pietenpol" ,
"Corvair" ,
"Chilton"
| Subject: | Aluminum Overcast Video from KCBS 2 |
The following is a video of EAA's ALuminum OVercast B-17 on rollout with the
gear collapsing:
http://kcbs.dayport.com/launcher/2643/
I don't know how long it will be available fro viewing and I haven't figured
out a way to save the clip. Any ideas?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | At7000ft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fuse or wings next |
Finished my ribs and tail and would like suggestions as to whether I should build
the fuselage or wings next. Also since I am building the 3 piece wing is it
better to build the left and right wings and then center section or vis versa?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | fuse or wings next |
Just about everything you build will attach to the fuselage and it takes
longer so my suggestion would be the fuselage. The wings go much faster
than any other portion of the plane so if you crank those out very quickly
you may be disheartened to find out how slowly the fuse work will go.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flop latches, intake system and more |
DJ,
I LOOOOVE to look at new construction, and how each person used thier
ideas to create the "same" flying machine. They are always more beautiful
without skin.
Very nice work!
I really miss building.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flop latches, intake system and more
>
> Several weeks ago some of you had requested some pics of my Flop
latches....
> well...I finally have taken the time to shoot some pics.
>
> here's a couple
>
> http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/images/05-16-04/flop-latch-1.jpg
> http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/images/05-16-04/flop-latch-2.jpg
> http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/images/05-16-04/flop-latch-3.jpg
>
> Also, I just finished installing my Corvair intake system, Stromberg carb,
> carb heat box, John Deere generator, and spinner. Pics and more here:
>
> http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/05-02-04.htm
> http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/05-14-04.htm
> http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/04-26-04.htm
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Fuse or wings next |
As Mike suggests, everything fits on to the fuse. Do that next followed by
the center section, then the two outer sections. The center section can be
used as a jig to keep the outer sections square.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi, Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
At7000ft(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse or wings next
Finished my ribs and tail and would like suggestions as to whether I should
build the fuselage or wings next. Also since I am building the 3 piece wing
is it better to build the left and right wings and then center section or
vis versa?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse or wings next |
Agree wholeheartedly with the others, go for the fuse. Nothing like
sitting in the seat contemplating the next step.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Preliminary W&B calculator |
Hey Group,
I've been working on some preliminary weight and balance #s in an attempt to
define the engine location tailored to my Piet. I have posted my MS Excel
file at the following location.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=53
I would appreciate constructive comments and critique. I have not yet
assembled the wings to the fuselage, but have made my best effort to consider them
individually in their proper location. I have weighed all of the major
components and have made some educated guesses of a few items. Please take a look
and help me ensure I am not missing anything or grossly in error.
Thanks.
Terry Bowden
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse or wings next |
I vote for Fuse
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse or wings next |
<40A970E7.AED5703E(at)shaw.ca> <005f01c43c8c$f94c6d40$deb4fea9@Desktop>
As Dave said it's great to be able to sit in
something and make engine noises. And
as per Mikes comments every time I add
something to the fuse I feel like I'm actually
working on an airplane. Tailwheel mount
done, throttle quad mounts in place ready
for drilling, two cabane fittings mounted
and the other two ready for drilling.
Clif.
PS It won't take up all that much room
hanging from the livingroom ceiling when
you finally start those wings. :-) :-)
> I vote for Fuse
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse or wings next |
----- Original Message -----
From: <At7000ft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse or wings next
=======================
A suggestion that you might consider:
Build the center section next: Then the wings can be built off of the
center section, right and left. At this point you know that the center
section and the two wings will match up. Then hang the center section and
wings from the ceiling. This then gives you room to work on the fuselage.
The wings are only attached to the fuselage by the cabane struts and these
are the easiest to adapt to any misalignment problems. (which none of us
ever have, of course!)
Cordially,
John
>
> Finished my ribs and tail and would like suggestions as to whether I
should build the fuselage or wings next. Also since I am building the 3
piece wing is it better to build the left and right wings and then center
section or vis versa?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse or wings next |
<40A970E7.AED5703E(at)shaw.ca>
<005f01c43c8c$f94c6d40$deb4fea9@Desktop>
Boy, you guys posted the most important part that I totally forgot about !!!!
Sitting in the cockpit is the primary reason to do the fuselage first
! I had quite a bit of flying
time logged before the plane even left the house:)))
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse or wings next |
The only reason that I can think of to start the wings first is that many people
start on the fuse first and that is what you see for sale, so to speed up a
project, you might as well buy a fuse and build the wings, I hate to see fuse's
sitting around....might as well use them.
Del
Michael D Cuy wrote:
Boy, you guys posted the most important part that I totally forgot about !!!!
Sitting in the cockpit is the primary reason to do the fuselage first
! I had quite a bit of flying
time logged before the plane even left the house:)))
Mike C.
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cooper <blugoos1(at)direcway.com> |
Thanks, DJ for the wonderful pics on how you attached the DZUS latches and strikes
between flop and wing. They are a tremendous help. Your time and generosity
sharing your knowledge and experience are what make this list so great. Thanks,
Jim Cooper in sunny, but drenched, South Louisiana, aka Corky Country
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
no problem! glad to be of help.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Cooper
To: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:34 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flop
Thanks, DJ for the wonderful pics on how you attached the DZUS latches and
strikes between flop and wing. They are a tremendous help. Your time and
generosity sharing your knowledge and experience are what make this list so
great. Thanks, Jim Cooper in sunny, but drenched, South Louisiana, aka Corky
Country
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | At7000ft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse or wings next |
Alright, you guys talked me into it. Time to cut some longerons. Thanks for
your advice.
Rick H
Boy, you guys posted the most important part that I totally forgot about !!!!
Sitting in the cockpit is the primary reason to do the fuselage first
! I had quite a bit of flying
time logged before the plane even left the house:)))
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse or wings next |
One REALLY important thing that I kicked myself for not doing is,,,fitting the
butt joints of the spars and center section spars before building the wings.
If I built another I would,,shape them,route them, put on the ply plates where
all the brackets go, and finally assemble each whole spar, total length. This
makes sure the butt jounts come together properly with the wing( to the center
section),, perfectly straight (or the proper dihedral that you want). Then
mark all spars for front/back/left/right. Now there will never be a problem
with them mating to the center section. I mated the wings last and it was a process
of picking,poking and sanding to get a zero space joint.
Maybe others did it this way, but I overlooked it.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse or wings next
Alright, you guys talked me into it. Time to cut some longerons. Thanks for your
advice.
Rick H
Boy, you guys posted the most important part that I totally forgot about !!!!
Sitting in the cockpit is the primary reason to do the fuselage first
! I had quite a bit of flying
time logged before the plane even left the house:)))
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | At7000ft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse or wings next |
Good point Walt. I was wondering about whether it would be a good idea to
first glue on the center section spar plywood pieces, drill all the holes while
you could still use a drill press, and make and test fit the 4130 straps with
the bolts before gluing any ribs to the spars. Also to get the correct dihedral
I assume you just sand the end of the center spar a little then put the wing
spar against it until the dihedral is what I want?
One REALLY important thing that I kicked myself for not doing is,,,fitting
the butt joints of the spars and center section spars before building the wings.
If I built another I would,,shape them,route them, put on the ply plates
where all the brackets go, and finally assemble each whole spar, total length.
This makes sure the butt jounts come together properly with the wing( to the
center section),, perfectly straight (or the proper dihedral that you want).
Then mark all spars for front/back/left/right. Now there will never be a
problem with them mating to the center section. I mated the wings last and it
was a
process of picking,poking and sanding to get a zero space joint.
Maybe others did it this way, but I overlooked it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Preliminary W&B calculator |
Hey Group,
I've been working on some preliminary weight and balance #s in an attempt to
define the engine location tailored to my Piet. I have posted my MS Excel
file at the following location.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=53
I would appreciate constructive comments and critique. I have not yet
assembled the wings to the fuselage, but have made my best effort to consider them
individually in their proper location. I have weighed all of the major
components and have made some educated guesses of a few items. Please take a look
and help me ensure I am not missing anything or grossly in error.
Thanks.
Terry Bowden
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <margdick(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Adjustable Elevator Trim Tab |
Group,
Does the direction of rotation of the propellor have an effect on which elevator
you should have the trim on? If so, which elevator would you put the trim
on for a clockwise rotation (65 Cont. for example)?
Dick G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Nose fuel tank design questions. |
I just posted some pictures of my nose fuel tank mock-up. See link below. With
a few changes yet to be made, I have calculated the tank capacity at almost
15 gallons. May need to bring the bottom up a little higher so that the tank
outlet is higher than the carb. inlet (to minimize the unuseable fuel). That
would also give me plenty of room to install my gascolator at the lowest point
and still not extend below the fuselage.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=202
How have some of you addressed the gravity flow and expansion space in the design?
I talked with Chuck Gantzer about the gravity/unuseable fuel issue last night.
We looked up the carburetor inlet pressure requiement in the A65 service manual.
It says...at the maximum climb attitude, the carburetor inlet should have
2 inches of gasoline (head). So, I plan to do a gravity check (measurement)
with the airplane blocked up to about 15 degrees to simulate the extreme climg
attitude. Does anyone have a knowledge as to whether this is a realistic number
for the max climb angle? Chuck read a report saying that the piet airfoil
stalls at approx 17 degrees AOA. I am guessing that with full power, the actual
attitude with respect to the horizon is somewhat less than 17 degrees. I
just don't know how much less.
To allow for 2% expansion space I will either extend the filler neck down a little
ways into the tank.... or locate the neck at the aft edge of the tank so that
expansion space is ensured in the top-forward section of the tank when filled
in a 3-point attitude. How have you guys done this and what seems to work
the best?
Thanks in advance for all your constructive comments.
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose fuel tank design questions. |
Terry-- your tank mock-up looks very good. I used the fuel flow
calculations that Tony B. shows in his book Firewall Forward and I don't
think he mentioned a specific degree angle of attack to set the plane up on
(or tank) for flow measurements in climb but said to position it in a
'climb attitude'. My tank is very similar and I have no baffles-- no
problem and the expansion of the fuel is not a factor for me at all. You
might want to position your filler neck towards the front of the tank if
you are concerned with not having a void area of up there but I just
positioned mine in the middle and fill it to the bottom of the neck or 1/2"
below.
I used a graduated Rubbermaid translucent 2 quart juice type container from
Wal Mart and the second hand on my clock (or digital chronograph on your
watch) to time the fuel flow and calculate gallons per minute of flow AT
the carb. inlet. (as again, upon reading what Bingelis advised) Having 17
gallons when full, my UN-useable fuel numbers didn't happen until I was
down 1.5 gallons when it petered out. (Pietered out ?) Running a 65
Cont. Anywho....hope this helps.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Montoure - GCI <jkgm(at)gci.net> |
To All Pietenpol Affectionados:
Hooraa, Hooraa today was the BEST!
Another Pietenpol chick left the NEST!
Hoop-de-do: It Flew, It Flew , It Flew!!!
Three takeoffs and consequently, three landings.
WHAT A RUSH!!!!
All the work was worth it---just like Mike C. said.
Juneau, Alaska Int. Airport tower opens at 6AM so we aviated about 5:30 am.
Sustained powered flight guys!! So put N966SP in the "UP & ABOUT" list.
Yes Chuck---Life is Good. Sure looks a long way to Brodhead.
Ken Montoure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flightsp |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
--- MIME Errors ---
A message with no text/plain section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using plaintext formatting.
NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the
message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus
WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be
informed of the potential problem with their system as soon
as possible.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nose fuel tank design questions. |
Mike,
Thanks for the input. What size plumbing lines do you have? 3/8"? Wow....17
gallons...your tank must go almost all the way to the floorboard. If so, that
might be why you have 1.5 gallons unuseable at climb attitude. As for expansion
space, I am going by the design # of 2% which is what the regs say for part
23 airplanes. It sounds like your filler neck position works well.
One more question, Mike. How much longer, if any, did you extend the engine mount
from the plans dimension. (The 1965 mount drawing I have shows the top mount
point for the A65 is 11 and 3/8".) I have been working on W&B calculations
and have decided to increase that length to 17 inches. (I have the short fuselage.)
Terry L. Bowden
p.s. Your terminology "pietered out" would be more correct if you were using a
"Pieter" Pan instead of a rubbermaid container.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nose fuel tank design questions. |
Mike,
Thanks for the input. What size plumbing lines do you have? 3/8"? Wow....17
gallons...your tank must go almost all the way to the floorboard. If so, that
might be why you have 1.5 gallons unuseable at climb attitude. As for expansion
space, I am going by the design # of 2% which is what the regs say for part
23 airplanes. It sounds like your filler neck position works well.
One more question, Mike. How much longer, if any, did you extend the engine mount
from the plans dimension. (The 1965 mount drawing I have shows the top mount
point for the A65 is 11 and 3/8".) I have been working on W&B calculations
and have decided to increase that length to 17 inches. (I have the short fuselage.)
Terry L. Bowden
p.s. Your terminology "pietered out" would be more correct if you were using a
"Pieter" Pan instead of a rubbermaid container.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | At7000ft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nose fuel tank design questions. |
Mike
Do you use a fuel pump or just rely on gravity?
Rick H
>>>>>>>>>
I used a graduated Rubbermaid translucent 2 quart juice type container from Wal
Mart and the second hand on my clock (or digital chronograph on your watch) to
time the fuel flow and calculate gallons per minute of flow AT the carb. inlet.
(as again, upon reading what Bingelis advised) Having 17 gallons when full,
my UN-useable fuel numbers didn't happen until I was down 1.5 gallons when
it petered out. (Pietered out ?) Running a 65 Cont. Anywho....hope this
helps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Way to go, KEN ! |
GREAT to hear your news from Alaska, Ken. You stuck with it, man
!!! You win, you got to the end,
the prize, the finish line------ not many make it that far. EXCELLENT
!!!! Your fun has JUST begun !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose fuel tank design questions. |
Gosh Terry......I do think I have 3/8" fuel delivery lines, yes. And
yes, I have more fuel than bladder limitations, human endurance
wise. Still nice to not to have to worry about how low I am on fuel most
times.
My engine mount is 1" longer than Pietenpol's plans for the 65 Cont. but to
do it over again I'd easily go 2" and most likely 3" over plans. (unless
you weigh 160 or less.......) The worst thing that will happen Terry is
that you will NOT have to move your wing back/slanted cabanes with a longer
motor mount. Brian Kenny went 9" over plans (from Canada) and his cabane
struts are upright----didn't have to move the wing back. He's about my
wt. at 190---195.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Don H........the fuel flow was totally adequate with just gravity so no
fuel pump required. I would always do a flow test do see---it's really
pretty easy to do if you follow TB's method in his books. (ps...I don't
get any commission for mentioning his books 4 zillion times a year on this
list:))
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First Flightsp |
Ken,
Haven't heard from you since you sent me the C/S fuel tank to New Orleans,
which I gave to a Pieter builder somewhere in Texas.
Proud to hear you finished and flew. As Mike says so many get to different
stages but very few complete and fly.
Check, check and recheck before every flight and check, check and recheck
your post-flights and it will be a rewarding experience.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flightsp |
Congratulations Ken.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Montoure - GCI
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Flightsp
To All Pietenpol Affectionados:
Hooraa, Hooraa today was the BEST!
Another Pietenpol chick left the NEST!
Hoop-de-do: It Flew, It Flew , It Flew!!!
Three takeoffs and consequently, three landings.
WHAT A RUSH!!!!
All the work was worth it---just like Mike C. said.
Juneau, Alaska Int. Airport tower opens at 6AM so we aviated about 5:30 am.
Sustained powered flight guys!! So put N966SP in the "UP & ABOUT" list.
Yes Chuck---Life is Good. Sure looks a long way to Brodhead.
Ken Montoure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose fuel tank design questions. |
Terry,
I built the nose as per prints with the long fuse. I have a flat bottomed
tank that just sits on the ply shelf (on felt). Comes in at 14 gallons.
Think this might keep the tank outlet a little higher than yours.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nose fuel tank design questions.
>
> I just posted some pictures of my nose fuel tank mock-up. See link below.
With a few changes yet to be made, I have calculated the tank capacity at
almost 15 gallons. May need to bring the bottom up a little higher so that
the tank outlet is higher than the carb. inlet (to minimize the unuseable
fuel). That would also give me plenty of room to install my gascolator at
the lowest point and still not extend below the fuselage.
>
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=202
>
> How have some of you addressed the gravity flow and expansion space in the
design?
>
> I talked with Chuck Gantzer about the gravity/unuseable fuel issue last
night. We looked up the carburetor inlet pressure requiement in the A65
service manual. It says...at the maximum climb attitude, the carburetor
inlet should have 2 inches of gasoline (head). So, I plan to do a gravity
check (measurement) with the airplane blocked up to about 15 degrees to
simulate the extreme climg attitude. Does anyone have a knowledge as to
whether this is a realistic number for the max climb angle? Chuck read a
report saying that the piet airfoil stalls at approx 17 degrees AOA. I am
guessing that with full power, the actual attitude with respect to the
horizon is somewhat less than 17 degrees. I just don't know how much less.
>
> To allow for 2% expansion space I will either extend the filler neck down
a little ways into the tank.... or locate the neck at the aft edge of the
tank so that expansion space is ensured in the top-forward section of the
tank when filled in a 3-point attitude. How have you guys done this and
what seems to work the best?
>
> Thanks in advance for all your constructive comments.
>
> Terry L. Bowden
> ph 254-715-4773
> fax 254-853-3805
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jimmy Courtney <jbciii5656(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ken Montoure -- First Flightsp |
Congratulations!!
It's great to hear about another "chick out of the nest!" I bought a set of plans
and all if the extras from Don Pietenpol about 6 months ago. I'll start mine
shortly. How about some pictures and descriptions for all of us Piet-People!
Let us know about flight developments.
Jim Courtney
Florence, MS
jbciii5656(at)yahoo.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Montoure - GCI
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Flightsp
To All Pietenpol Affectionados:
Hooraa, Hooraa today was the BEST!
Another Pietenpol chick left the NEST!
Hoop-de-do: It Flew, It Flew , It Flew!!!
Three takeoffs and consequently, three landings.
WHAT A RUSH!!!!
All the work was worth it---just like Mike C. said.
Juneau, Alaska Int. Airport tower opens at 6AM so we aviated about 5:30 am.
Sustained powered flight guys!! So put N966SP in the "UP & ABOUT" list.
Yes Chuck---Life is Good. Sure looks a long way to Brodhead.
Ken Montoure
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose fuel tank design questions. |
Terry,
In regards to the expansion question. On all the fuel tanks I have built I
have had a vent line instlled and on hot days is is not uncommon to see
drops of fuel dropping out. I would be of the opinion that a vent line of
1/4" size should take care of any expansion as it will keep in tank
pressures neutral.
This has been my approach to the question on the 5 fuel tanks I have built.
They were all of aluminum and rivited using pro seal.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nose fuel tank design questions.
I just posted some pictures of my nose fuel tank mock-up. See link below.
With a few changes yet to be made, I have calculated the tank capacity at
almost 15 gallons. May need to bring the bottom up a little higher so that
the tank outlet is higher than the carb. inlet (to minimize the unuseable
fuel). That would also give me plenty of room to install my gascolator at
the lowest point and still not extend below the fuselage.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=202
How have some of you addressed the gravity flow and expansion space in the
design?
I talked with Chuck Gantzer about the gravity/unuseable fuel issue last
night. We looked up the carburetor inlet pressure requiement in the A65
service manual. It says...at the maximum climb attitude, the carburetor
inlet should have 2 inches of gasoline (head). So, I plan to do a gravity
check (measurement) with the airplane blocked up to about 15 degrees to
simulate the extreme climg attitude. Does anyone have a knowledge as to
whether this is a realistic number for the max climb angle? Chuck read a
report saying that the piet airfoil stalls at approx 17 degrees AOA. I am
guessing that with full power, the actual attitude with respect to the
horizon is somewhat less than 17 degrees. I just don't know how much less.
To allow for 2% expansion space I will either extend the filler neck down a
little ways into the tank.... or locate the neck at the aft edge of the tank
so that expansion space is ensured in the top-forward section of the tank
when filled in a 3-point attitude. How have you guys done this and what
seems to work the best?
Thanks in advance for all your constructive comments.
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flightsp |
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Montoure - GCI
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Flightsp
Ken,
Congratulations! The first flight is an emotional experience and literally brings
tears to your eyes. Kinda like the birth of your first child, Huh?
Hope you can figure out how to make it to Brodhead.
John
To All Pietenpol Affectionados:
Hooraa, Hooraa today was the BEST!
Another Pietenpol chick left the NEST!
Hoop-de-do: It Flew, It Flew , It Flew!!!
Three takeoffs and consequently, three landings.
WHAT A RUSH!!!!
All the work was worth it---just like Mike C. said.
Juneau, Alaska Int. Airport tower opens at 6AM so we aviated about 5:30 am.
Sustained powered flight guys!! So put N966SP in the "UP & ABOUT" list.
Yes Chuck---Life is Good. Sure looks a long way to Brodhead.
Ken Montoure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flightsp |
This is great to hear! I'm wearing a second hand grin.
Some pics would be even better!
Clif :-) :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Montoure - GCI
To All Pietenpol Affectionados:
Hooraa, Hooraa today was the BEST!
Another Pietenpol chick left the NEST!
Hoop-de-do: It Flew, It Flew , It Flew!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | At7000ft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First Flightsp |
Congrat Ken, when are you putting the floats on it? All aircraft in Alaska have
to be able to land on water don't they?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Montoure - GCI
To All Pietenpol Affectionados:
Hooraa, Hooraa today was the BEST!
Another Pietenpol chick left the NEST!
Hoop-de-do: It Flew, It Flew , It Flew!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Parts List - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
And now for the impossible question...
Background: I am building an Aircamper in the Alaskan Bush to be known as the Bethel
Belle. This means that getting everything up here the least expensive way
(i.e.: barge vs. air) is the first priority. Specifically that means virtually
"everything all at once." And as much as possible, all from one source -
Aircraft Spruce & Specialty. We're always playing a race against time up here
(even in summer) and at $500.00 a month for the hanger I want to keep moving
forward at all times. I already have the wing ribs from Charles Rubeck for a
one piece wing and I am ready to order the complete spruce kit for the modernized
Pietenpol from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty and have their material list for
that. Now the question:
What else do I need :-) In other words, does anyone have a complete and comprehensive
parts list for "all" items needed (plywood, metal, fittings, etc., preferably
with AS&S part numbers). It's not that I can't make sense out of the
plans or parts list in the manual but it seems that the two may vary (the one
in the manual seems to be for the original Aircamper and the plans for the modernized
- am I right here?) I simply want to make sure I'm right as much as possible
before ordering and shipping. I intend to follow Mike Cuy's plane almost
to the letter with the exception of adding a second fuel tank and one piece
wing vs. 3pc. Also, "anything" pre-built I am a definite candidate for and
I will go that route when available. What and who is out there in that regard?
Talk about a couple of loaded questions huh?
Attached are a couple shots of what one day the Bethel Belle will look like (I
am not affilated with the charity by the way, it's just what it's all about).
Stacy Clark
Bethel, Alaska
P.S. Thanks Mike for the video I've watched it about ten times so far. Love the
phrase, "...and the music comes out here." (lol) Also, if anyone sees Charles
Rubeck tell him all arrived well and "thanks," and if the plane is half as
strong as his shipping crates I should be able to fly into a brick wall and walk
away :-)
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nose fuel tank design questions. |
Terry, and all,
Fuel related problems account for the largest portion of engine failures,
therefore a great deal of effort should go into the design of the fuel system.
You should always assume that any time you re-fuel, that you also pumped in
some water. A couple of years ago, Rex Hamilton (a high time pilot) was towing
sailplanes out of Gliderport. He re-fueled, and took off with the next sail
plane in tow, and at about 50' agl his engine quit. He released the tow rope,
and peeled of to the left. The sail plane made an uneventful landing, but Rex
hit the trees, and was killed on impact. There was over a gallon of water in
the bottom of the fuel tank.
Here are the pros & cons of my fuel system:
Cowl tank - Fiberglass, Polyester resin, 10.7 gal, 1/4" copper tube J.B.
Weld into the filler cap and bent to face into the wing, along with a cork
float and wire up thru a small brass tube J.B. Weld into the fuel cap, for a fuel
quantity indicator. This all works very well, but I'm at the mercy of strict
NO ALCOHOL in the fuel. West System Epoxy is not effected by alcohol. I
recently used West System, and will never use Polyester again (especially for
fiberglass fuel tanks), although it does cost more. I have a cable operated
valve at the outlet of the cowl tank, mounted on the firewall. The cowl tank is
completely separated from the passenger compartment, to prevent any fuel leaks
from accumulating in the passenger compartment. I used 3/8" aluminum tubing /
AN fittings throughout. The design of any tank should allow any water in the
bottom to find it's way out to the gascolator, while the plane is static
laden (normal attitude on the ground), so you can sump the water out of the fuel
system. The gascolator must be mounted in the lowest part of the fuel system
(to collect water), yet above the bottom of the fuselage, so if the landing
gear is wiped out, it will not knock the gascolator off and cause a fuel leak.
Wing tank - Fiberglass, Polyester Resin, 9.8 gal, 1/4" copper tube J.B.
weld into the filler cap and bent to face into the wind. Things I would have
done different - use West Systems Epoxy for the resin in the fiberglass. I
extended the filler tube too far down into the the wing tank (about 1 1/2").
That was too far, and eventually drilled holes into the sides of mentioned tube,
so I could put more fuel in it. A good quality ball valve re-plentishes the
cowl tank when the wire gets down to a point I marked on my windshield.
As for checking fuel flow at climb attitude, Tony Bengalis suggests
checking it at the fuel hose fitting on the carb. I figured the fuel has to get
through the needle valve, so I re-checked the flow to compare it to the hose
fitting location. I removed the top of the carb, and held it above a calibrated
container, and the needle valve restricts the flow A LOT !! However, it was
still more flow than max fuel burn, even with only a gallon, or so, in the
tank.
I can carry 20 gal of fuel onboard, and I can attest to the fact that it
IS possible to pee in a bottle, while flying a Pietenpol !! Come to think of
it...that's probably something that very few people in history have ever
done...
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flightsp |
In a message dated 5/19/04 10:30:00 AM Central Daylight Time, jkgm(at)gci.net
writes:
<< Hooraa, Hooraa today was the BEST!
Another Pietenpol chick left the NEST!
Hoop-de-do: It Flew, It Flew , It Flew!!!
Three takeoffs and consequently, three landings.
WHAT A RUSH!!!! >>
And a Big Congratulations to you, Ken, for achieving this milestone !! Thank
you for shareing it with the folks on the list. It keeps everyone all stoked
up about our beloved design. Celebration is certainly in order, but then it
is back to business. The first 20 hours of any homebuilt plane is the most
crucial, and most dangerous. You are getting aquinted with an unfamiliar plane
and characteristics, and this is when the gremlins will come out and Bite you
!! It would be good to do a post flight brief with someone, and talk about
every minor detail of the flight. Every flight must be followed by a thourough
post flight inspection, and every pre-flight should be equilivant to an
Annual inspection...which means every inspection cover, entire fuel system, a
careful inspection of every fitting and cable, prop torque, and so fourth. It
would be very beneficial if you would also have a competent assistant to
re-inspect everything you already looked at. Plan each flight so that at any point
during the flight, you have a place to land...probably a difficult thing to do
in
Alaska. 'Plan the Flight, and Fly the Plan'. Wait for near perfect weather.
You'll pay more attention to what she's telling you now, as you get to know
each other, and believe me...she will communicate with you !! It's something
you have to experience to understand, and you, my friend, are experiencing it
!!
So, a Big YYEEEE HHAAAAWWW for now, but then go and triple check
everything. And keep us updated on your progress. Brodhead is closer than you
think...
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Parts List - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
| From: | "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
Stacy,
What a beautiful picture of your proposed supercamper. How did you
produce it?
Jack
Des Moines, IA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | A65 engine mount |
I was amazed to read here a few days ago about how far ahead people are
having to move the A65 to get the C of G in range. I had already built the
engine mount to the Pietenpol plan and now see this might be a problem. I
am tall and not a little guy (235#) so if a 195# person balances better
with the engine 9" ahead I suppose I will be looking for about a 12"
relocation. I am building it as a single place as there is no room for a
passenger in front. Any advice would be appreciated.
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: A65 engine mount |
Moving the wing position back 2 or 3 inches so that the cabanes tilt aft is one
thing that will help. I am trying to avoid that with my airplane. Another thing
you might consider is a large nose fuel tank. This will help when it is
near full, but not near empty. Another thing is pay close attention to the tail
weight during building. Don't use excessive varnish, don't use heavy hardware
and turnbuckles on tail wires. Go with a light-weight tailwheel. Some guys
use the lightweight fabric on tailfethers to keep the weight down.
I highly recommend going through the process of computing preliminary weight and
balance as early as you can get good estimates of weights of major components.
It seems like no two Pietenpol builders end up with the same CG and weight
circumstances. So its best to tailor your design as needed to keep your CG at
the 1/4 to 1/3 chord.
Terry B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Parts List - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
Stacy-- your graphics are really clean, very nice. You and DJ Vegh should
get along great ! He's a another wiz on the computer AND in the workshop.
Mike C.
PS-- $500 per month for a hangar in Alaska ? I'd have to live in it for
that much of an expense and to be able to afford to build/fly at the same
time. Hangars here are going for $130 to about $200. (for a tee hangar)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Parts List - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
Stacy-- your graphics are really clean, very nice. You and DJ Vegh should
get along great ! He's a another wiz on the computer AND in the workshop.
Mike C.
PS-- $500 per month for a hangar in Alaska ? I'd have to live in it for
that much of an expense and to be able to afford to build/fly at the same
time. Hangars here are going for $130 to about $200. (for a tee hangar)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Parts List - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
yeah I saw that rendering. nicely done!
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Parts List - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty
Stacy-- your graphics are really clean, very nice. You and DJ Vegh should
get along great ! He's a another wiz on the computer AND in the workshop.
Mike C.
PS-- $500 per month for a hangar in Alaska ? I'd have to live in it for
that much of an expense and to be able to afford to build/fly at the same
time. Hangars here are going for $130 to about $200. (for a tee hangar)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | GN-1 For Sale near Waco TX |
There's an A65 powered GN1 listed on Barnstormers.com. I saw the airplane about
a year ago. Its a fairly straight looking bird...rough finish tho. The ad
is pasted below. I don't know the owner, but I talked with him on the phone.
I am going to try and go look at it one evening next week after work.
Mr. Norwood said he'll take $7000 for it. The LH wing is damaged from him running
into the hangar door. Spar supposedly OK. I will take my digital camera
and take pics if anyone's interested in it. He says that he bought the airplane
from an A&P in Kansas named Mr. Duvolt, who taught his son to fly in it.
The original builder was a Mr. Alan Slicer (not sure where from) in 1986.
Anyway.... I will try to report back what I see next week.
*******************************
PIETENPOL GN-1 AIRCAMPER FOR SALE Pietenpol GN-1 Aircamper Continental
A65 300 hrs on airframe(1986); about 150 hrs since engine overhaul A/C weighs
649 Gross wt 1149. No electrical. Req'd instr. Damaged Lt wing tip-five nose ribs
and three 1/4 in rib strips. Have leading edge and req'd wood. Tennessee prop
12 g tank Waco TX $7000 Contact Morris Norwood - located Lorena, TX USA
Telephone: 254-881-2150 Posted May 20, 2004
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Parts List - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
Jack,
Thanks. I made the image using the side picture in the three-way drawing someone
had scaned from the plans. I then just basically colored it with a program
called Paint Shop Pro 7 which I have found to be a wonderful program. Don't
know if any of you would know this but I used to have a company called PROPELLERhead
Simulation Software. I used to make instrument panels and aircraft for
Microsoft Flight Simulator.
Attached is a picture of the Belle with the Model A engine which because of the
logistics of the flight just wouldn't be practical to use :-(
Stacy
Bethel, Alaska
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Parts List - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
You're going to mount tundra tires on it, aren't you? I can imagine the
looks on the SuperCub guys' faces when a Pietenpol plops down on their
favorite sand bar.. :)
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> stacy@unicom-alaska.com Friday, May 21, 2004 2:15:06 PM >>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Parts List - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
Nice image Stacey. It's now my office computer wallpaper.
Larry
Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN Premium!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Parts List - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
Mike,
Thanks, yea I've seen DJ's site. As far as the hanger, believe me I sure
didn't want to pay that much but prices are what they are up here and
hangers are very hard to come by. Milk's $7.00 a gallon to give you an
idea. It would have been $450.00 but I lost the coin toss. I'll move into
the hanger in July. I chose it because it's right below the tower (which is
where I spend most of my time), it's heated, I can store my snowmobile there
(which I ride to work in the winter), and they've got pretty much everything
but an english wheel in there. It also comes with and A&P that happens to
look like Santa Claus and you can bet I'm going to milk that angle for all
it's worth since I'm doing this for the kids at St. Jude. Santa also has a
ton of aircraft engines... And, the co-owner of the hanger has a bunch of
Model A engines -- talk about coincidence.
Stacy
Bethel, Alaska
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A65 engine mount |
Les,
I run around 210/220, and I made the mount about 2" longer on the long fuse.
Had to move wing back 3" to just get into the CG window.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 engine mount
>
> I was amazed to read here a few days ago about how far ahead people are
> having to move the A65 to get the C of G in range. I had already built the
> engine mount to the Pietenpol plan and now see this might be a problem. I
> am tall and not a little guy (235#) so if a 195# person balances better
> with the engine 9" ahead I suppose I will be looking for about a 12"
> relocation. I am building it as a single place as there is no room for a
> passenger in front. Any advice would be appreciated.
> Les
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Parts List - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
John,
Yep, I've definitely thought about it, thought about wheels/skis combination
too.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Parts List - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
Larry,
Wow! Thanks! Here's the wallpaper I use (made it with Paint Shop Pro from an
online image)...
Stacy :-)
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Parts List - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
DJ,
Thanks :-) I thought I saw your aircraft up on eBay, are you doing another?
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A65 engine mount |
In a message dated 5/21/04 10:08:51 AM Central Daylight Time,
leskarin(at)telus.net writes:
<< I was amazed to read here a few days ago about how far ahead people are
having to move the A65 to get the C of G in range. >>
Les,
I have Short Fuse, Continental A65, I weigh 210 lbs., Engine Mount 8" longer
than plans, Wing tilted back 3 1/2", Empty weight 630 lbs. All loading
conditions are in C. G. range. At minimum fuel in the cowl tank, I am right on
the aft C. G. limit.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: A65 engine mount |
Since you're building a single why not simply move the seat as far forward
as you can manage. I'm sure that moving your235 lb forward even a
couple of inches would make quite a difference and there is room for
at least another few inches beyond that without interfering with the rear
cabane parts.
Clif
>
> Moving the wing position back 2 or 3 inches so that the cabanes tilt aft
is one thing that will help. I am trying to avoid that with my airplane.
Another thing you might consider is a large nose fuel tank. This will help
when it is near full, but not near empty. Another thing is pay close
attention to the tail weight during building. Don't use excessive varnish,
don't use heavy hardware and turnbuckles on tail wires. Go with a
light-weight tailwheel. Some guys use the lightweight fabric on tailfethers
to keep the weight down.
>
> I highly recommend going through the process of computing preliminary
weight and balance as early as you can get good estimates of weights of
major components. It seems like no two Pietenpol builders end up with the
same CG and weight circumstances. So its best to tailor your design as
needed to keep your CG at the 1/4 to 1/3 chord.
>
> Terry B
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Parts List - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
<007c01c43f99$e0f31630$71aaa1d1@DJQ7LV21>
That's going to be one beautiful airplane. I wonder how many of
our "prairie boys" have any idea of the landscape you'll be flying
in? :-) :-)
I sent a note to my Victoria buddy who sends back a long note
wondering about the practicality of an open cockpit Piet in Alaska.
My grin kept getting bigger and bigger. I had no idea practicality
entered into the picture no matter where the thing is flown. It
was never even a consideration in my mind.
I get to wear my leather helmet, goggles and silk scarf, who cares!!!
http://www.garciaaviation.com/cgi-local/military/agora.cgi
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Stacy Clark
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Parts List - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty
Larry,
Wow! Thanks! Here's the wallpaper I use (made it with Paint Shop Pro from an
online image)...
Stacy :-)
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
<00fc01c43fd3$0f422920$9d715118@dawsonaviation>
| Subject: | Re: Parts List - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
Clif,
It's not practical...that's why I'm building it and flying it to Memphis :-) Under
the heading of perhaps "Too Much Information," maybe this will explain it
to your friend a little better (attached). This whole project is "exactly" all
about the impossibilities. I certainly don't go into it lightly or blindly.
No matter the distance, it is always one little (pre-planned, weighed, and
calculated) step at a time.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | My "first" Pietenpol |
I'll never forget (will you?) the first Pietenpol I ever saw.
I was in Minneapolis on a business trip a couple years ago and got to stop by Dale
Johnson's shop (Greg Cardinal took off work to meet up...) and see their project.
Best part is, it was close to being ready for covering.
I won't even try to describe the level of craftsmanship I saw that day. The pictures
I took have served me well as an encouragement for my project.
Then yesterday I got the July 2004 issue of Kitplanes in the mail and there it
was.....a short article about Dale and Greg's Air Camper....
What a treat.....
Nice article.....
JM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
<00b201c43f9a$a3e90f50$71aaa1d1@DJQ7LV21>
| Subject: | Re: Parts List - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
>>Thanks :-) I thought I saw your aircraft up on eBay, are you doing another?
nope.. I bought that one so that I could use it's wings. I then sold the fuse
and tail feathers.... thats what you saw on ebay.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | steamlaunch(at)softhome.net |
CAn anyone comment on the weight of a ford A or B instalation with and
without the cooling system.... WHat size prop does it swing?
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
I've started building wing ribs and got 5052 aluminum TE's from Wicks
early, so I could cut a cross-section and figure out exact measurements
for attaching to the capstrips. I plan to use the "Fig. 3" version that
Ord-Humes describes in the EAA Wood techniques book, TE glued under top
capstrip with gusset beneath. Curious if anyone using aluminum TE's has
a photo of how they did it because I've scoured the archives for a
picture reference without luck, even though there are lots of pro's and
con's discussed re: aluminum TE's.
Thanks,
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Prange Larry J PSNS <prangel(at)psns.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Ford/Piet Static RPMs? |
Hi again Pietnics!
What might be an expected, static RPM range for a zero-timed, healthy, stock
Ford engine/Zenith Carb with a Hegy 76x42 scimitar prop? Educated guesses
or empirical knowledge anyone?
Thanks,
Larry Prange
nx1929a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ford/Piet Static RPMs? |
Larry, After much effort to get my 'A' adjusted, it now runs quite well. I
have nothing against which to compare it but I recently ran it for a full five
minutes at full throttle (static), then closed the throttle quickly, followed
by a quick move back to full throttle. It had started on the first pull and ran
smoothly in all modes and did not hesitate at all through the throttle
changes. It registered just a bit over 1650 RPM at full throttle and idled at about
500 RPM.
It is stock throughout. Original head and manifold, Zenith model B carb and
babbit bearings. Timing set at 27 degrees BTC Total time to date 22 hours
(mostly fighting the original carburetor and timing problems). I won't be running
it again until I start taxi tests ( hopefully in the next couple of weeks) I'm
comfortable with flying it as it now sits. Hope this helps. Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ford/Piet Static RPMs? |
Larry,
Forgot to mention in my last post, one rather important item. My prop is
also a 76x42 ( made by Chad Willie and is top quality work) Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Hargrove <ronhargrove(at)yahoo.com> |
Ok guys, all this talk about big guys and Piets
has me worried. I am 6'1", and weigh 300 lbs (I
am built like a linebacker). I am considering a
Piet with a Corvair motor. Would this be an
impossible CG problem for an Air Camper build?
Would there be any way to carry a normal weight
passenger? Or should I just start looking at
other aircraft plans?
Thanks,
Ron Hargrove
__________________________________
http://messenger.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
Thanks to Chuck and others for the comments. I have one other question then.
Is it better from a flight characteristic point of view to move the wing
back or extend the engine forward/
It seems that moving the wing back is going to make getting in and out all
the more difficult.
But I want to give it the best flying characteristics too. Comments please.
Thx
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
I'm 6'4" and 195lb. I had to lengthen the rear pit about 2" and made it 2"
wider. My firewall is about 1.5" wider. Very comfortable fit. You might
consider widening 2.5" or maybe even 3" at the rear seat and maybe 1" wider
at firewall. As for the CG issue..... not really a problem if you go
Corvair with electric. A Corvair with starter, alternator, intake tubes and
carb will be about 255lb or so (give or take 10lb) You may need to make the
engine mount a couple inches longer but I see no significant problems in
doing that.
As for ability to carry a passenger... well... depends on how light you
build. You may be able to carry a 150lb pass. assuming you keep the empty
weight at 650lb, carry 96lb of fuel or less and gross the aircraft at
1200lb. 1200lb gross is on the higher end of the spectrum but I suspect it
would be fine.... well... let me say with a GN-1 it would be fine. I have
never seen a Piet structure up close..... may not be quite as stout as a
GN-1.
I plan on grossing my GN-1 airframe at 1200. I'm using a Corvair that
should put out about 95-100 hp propped with a large diameter low pitch 66x29
wood prop. I want to use my power for climb (cause an Aircamper ain't
supposed to be a rocket anyway)
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Hargrove" <ronhargrove(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: CG info...
>
> Ok guys, all this talk about big guys and Piets
> has me worried. I am 6'1", and weigh 300 lbs (I
> am built like a linebacker). I am considering a
> Piet with a Corvair motor. Would this be an
> impossible CG problem for an Air Camper build?
> Would there be any way to carry a normal weight
> passenger? Or should I just start looking at
> other aircraft plans?
>
> Thanks,
> Ron Hargrove
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://messenger.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edge |
We used gutter coil from our local gutter person. We bent it to match other
trailing edge profiles. This is not a very good pic and can take a better
one if you need it. Be sure to sand with rough sandpaper each spot it is
epoxied onto the rib. We did not use nails, because the fabric will hold it
place later.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Trailing Edge
>
Curious if anyone using aluminum TE's has
> a photo of how they did it because I've scoured the archives for a
> picture reference without luck, even though there are lots of pro's and
> con's discussed re: aluminum TE's.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark Hodgson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Prange Larry J PSNS <prangel(at)psns.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Ford/Piet Static RPMs? |
Don,
Thanks for your comments! My A also gets 1650 RPM static, wide open. I was
trying to get a good baseline to work from before I make any changes from
stock. I would do it the correct way, in the air, but my Piet is not
covered yet. I have purchased a Weber progressive two barrel carb and
manifold kit from Snyder's Antique Auto Parts. I am interested in
monitoring the change. The only drag is that I will have to modify my
four-into-one exhaust system because of the new intake manifold's shape. In
Ron Kelly's dyno testing of the A engine, (
http://users.aol.com/gmaclaren/dyno.html ) he finds that giving the A better
respiration is the most effective and direct means to get a little more umph
out of it. Also in Mr. Kelly's article, I found the results of spark plug
testing to be very surprising. "A plug is a plug is a plug. Right?" Not!
Larry Prange
nx1929a
From: Waytogopiet(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford/Piet Static RPMs?
Larry, After much effort to get my 'A' adjusted, it now runs quite well. I
have nothing against which to compare it but I recently ran it for a full
five
minutes at full throttle (static), then closed the throttle quickly,
followed
by a quick move back to full throttle. It had started on the first pull and
ran
smoothly in all modes and did not hesitate at all through the throttle
changes. It registered just a bit over 1650 RPM at full throttle and idled
at about
500 RPM.
It is stock throughout. Original head and manifold, Zenith model B carb and
babbit bearings. Timing set at 27 degrees BTC Total time to date 22 hours
(mostly fighting the original carburetor and timing problems). I won't be
running
it again until I start taxi tests ( hopefully in the next couple of weeks)
I'm
comfortable with flying it as it now sits. Hope this helps. Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | UK version of Brodhead |
Guys,
Here is a picutre of the UK Brodhead this past weekend.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Shenton
Subject: Re: Trip to UK
Hi Chris,
Sounds like you guys are going to be very busy!
It's currently light till 9.00 pm so I guess it will be about the same during the
early part of July. I think you'll need all the daylight hours available!
I will be at the PFA Rally on the sunday with Steve and the Corvair. We will be
on the pietenpol stand.
I have attached a pic of Alan's camper next to a Model A form our meet on Sunday.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: Paul Shenton
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: Trip to UK
Paul,
Indeed the July 4 display at Shuttleworth is on the calendar as we will be guests
of Roy Nerou who will be having Ron Millinship flying one of his Chiltons
at the display. I was not originally planning on making the trip that early
in the month but Roy insisted I come for the July 4 display.
Alan James has agreed to put us up for a night or two and to give us each a ride
in G-BUCO. He says that Hendon is an easy train ride into London for us
from his place so that is where we will stage from for that outing. Things are
shaping up!
That time of year, what is the useable daylight at your lattitude?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
I figured out a really easy way to pre-load (test) your struts and cabane
struts if you just want that warm fuzzy feeling that your wings won't fold
up due to bad welds, bad fork ends, or old tubing. It only requires some
tie down straps, screw drivers, a six foot 2x4, and a cooperative tree. No
scales, weights, or anything. Might want to use a crash helmet though.
It lets you static load test a member to whatever your heart desires - only
depends on how big of a 2 x 4 you have. - using leverage. I tested my rear
struts to 770 pounds and my front struts to 1032 pounds. Worked great.
Its on the first page of my website at the bottom
BC
http://bconoly.tripod.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FORD A Weight |
In a message dated 5/24/04 9:40:24 AM Central Daylight Time,
steamlaunch(at)softhome.net writes:
<< CAn anyone comment on the weight of a ford A or B instalation with and
without the cooling system.... WHat size prop does it swing? >>
Matt,
I think the Ford Model A engine weighs about 225 to 230 lbs. Add the cooling
system and coolant to that. I had a homebuilt 74 X 48 prop, but I think it
was too much prop.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edge |
In a message dated 5/24/04 9:47:41 AM Central Daylight Time, mhodgson(at)bu.edu
writes:
<< Curious if anyone using aluminum TE's has
a photo of how they did it >>
Mark,
The trailing edge of my Pietenpol is a magnet for knocking my iron head on.
If I had a nickel for every knot that thing put on my head, I would be a rich
man !! My concern would be if the aluminum trailing edge would be dented by
any of the 'Bonks' that thing incurs.
Chuck G.
April 29, 2004 - May 25, 2004
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dv