Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dw

May 25, 2004 - June 30, 2004



      
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From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Trailing Edge
Date: May 25, 2004
> > Mark, > The trailing edge of my Pietenpol is a magnet for knocking my iron head on. > If I had a nickel for every knot that thing put on my head, I would be a rich > man !! My concern would be if the aluminum trailing edge would be dented by > any of the 'Bonks' that thing incurs. > Not to mention bird strikes....... > Chuck G. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 25, 2004
Subject: Re: Ford/Piet Static RPMs?
In a message dated 5/24/04 7:57:13 PM Central Daylight Time, Waytogopiet(at)aol.com writes: << It had started on the first pull and ran smoothly in all modes and did not hesitate at all through the throttle changes. It registered just a bit over 1650 RPM at full throttle and idled at about 500 RPM. It is stock throughout. Original head and manifold, Zenith model B carb and babbit bearings. Timing set at 27 degrees BTC >> Larry, Mine was very similar to Don's, except I had a bit more prop (74 X 48). My Tach reads a little low, so I think I was getting something just over 1700 rpm static. I changed the plugs several times (Champion W16Y set at .018" to .020" gap). I had a Wico mag in the beginning, then altered the bracket to accept a Slick mag. Ran fine on the ground, and holding the tail up in the air, but on short final if I pull power to idle, the engine would quit. That happened 3 times. Changing the mag did not help. I got to where I would leave in just a tiny bit of power to land, then pull power to idle just at the end of the flair. It never quit when I did that. I had that carb apart quite a few times, comparing jet size, adjust float setting, inspecting, and so fourth, but I never did get all those gremlins out of that Model B carb. I have the jet sizes stored on my computer, if anyone is interested. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Trailing Edge
Date: May 25, 2004
> > My concern would be if the aluminum trailing edge would be dented > by any of the 'Bonks' that thing incurs. > > > Not to mention bird strikes....... Now that was FUNNY! :) DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 26, 2004
Subject: Re: C of G with A65
In a message dated 5/24/04 9:40:07 PM Central Daylight Time, leskarin(at)telus.net writes: << It seems that moving the wing back is going to make getting in and out all the more difficult. >> Les, I began taxi test my plane - no brakes / tail skid - with the wing 1" aft of vertical, and with forward stick, add power, full rudder, I could almost change direction 180, and pivot on the wing tip, in the grass. Ground handling was suprisingly very good, without brakes, and with a tail skid. However, with the tail skid I had much less directional control on hard surface, especially with a cross wind. I re-checked the C. of G. and moved the wing back to 3.5" aft of vertical, and it caused the turning circle to be noticably wider...probably because of the added weight on the tail skid. As far as getting in and out, it didn't make any difference, because I still had to slide my back across the bottom of the wing, no matter what position the wing was in. As far as extending the nose, it is said that it is more difficult to bring it out of a slip...which makes sense. However, for my experience, I have found that the rudder is very effective at bringing 'er out of a slip...no problem. I usually slip it in on final, maintain 60 mph indicated, (don't want to get slow in this configuration, or it will spin) and less than 1000 rpm on the ol' Continental. Practice slips at altitude in your practice area, before attempting it on final, and do so just a very little bit at a time. In a slip, the windshield blocks only a small portion of the relative wind, and it can be a bit distracting having all that wind in the face. This is the only time I have to noticably hold forward stick to maintain airspeed. The ball is all the way off to the side. The decent rate is very high, but it is good standard procedure, because I can maintain plenty of altitude in the pattern, should that big fan stop blowing, I could still make the field. Bring 'er out of the slip, just before making the numbers (or if the engine quits), pull power to idle and she slows down quite rapidly as I round out. Closer and closer to the ground, keep aft stick, ASI passes down through 40 mph indicated, wind noise diminishing, hold 'er off...hold 'er off, inches to go, hold 'er off, if needed keep the upwind wing a little low, then usually the tail touches just before the mains. I can usually grease 'er on, with a short roll out, 3 out of 5 landings, and boy does it feel good !! However, it's usually when no one is watching...at least they say they weren't watching... Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 26, 2004
Subject: Moving from Benton
Well, I guess I'm just in the mood to type tonight !! I'm moving my plane from Benton to Cook Airfield. The first thing the new owners of the airport want to do, is tear down the old row of hangers that I am in, to make way for new 'Nested Tee' hangers. I have been constantly cleaning bird crap off the plane, and digging nests out the cowling. They can build a nest quicker than a New York Minute. At first, they would just collect up all the stuff I tore out the day before. I was hoping they would just give up, and find another location...NOT !! Now, I thought I would outsmart them, and take the stuff out around the side, and crunch it all up. I guess they were watching what I did with it...next day...more bird nest. It's been getting to be like 'I can feel you watching me'... I flew down to Cook Airfield on Sunday evening, about 8 miles S SW of Benton. Flight of two, with Doug Bryant and his Corbin Baby Ace. They regularly jump out of perfectly good airplanes down there, about 3 times a week, so ya gotta watch out so you don't splat one of the jumpers all over the windshield. I think it might be a good move, because it will be a hanger with modern stuff, like doors, and electric. No birds allowed !! It was the first landing I made there on turf runway 01, which is about 40' wide, and 1600' long. Hay growing on either side. Nobody mentioned it was a downhill runway. I kept rolling, and rolling, end of the runway coming up, and I had to zig then zag to get 'er slowed down to maybe 100' before the cones at the end of the runway. Met some of the locals, posed for some pictures, checked out the hanger, concrete floor, sliding doors, some junk laying around but I think with some TLC it would make a good home for the ol' Piet. The winds were light and variable, so we departed uphill on runway 19. Doug took off first, then I back taxi and did my run-up, and then added in full power. Normal take off roll, tail comes up and I can see the guys with the camera on the right side of the runway, then this old fella decides to walk across the runway in front of me !! I'm almost to Vr, and here he comes!! I left the power in, and ya should have seen that little chubby guy run !! I'll bet it's the first time he ran in about 20 years !! Came back around for a low pass for the camera, then wiggle the wings on the next downwind. Doug & I flew around for over an hour, enjoying the beautiful weather and new scenery. He is very conservative when in formation, and doesn't like to be in very close. Sure was a great evening to fly !! Anyway, I think I'm going to like it down at Cook. They have some Federal Money to re-surface the hard surface runway, in July. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: C of G with A65
Date: May 26, 2004
Chuck, Hold that stick all the way back on roll out! Don't get lazy! Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: C of G with A65 > > In a message dated 5/24/04 9:40:07 PM Central Daylight Time, > leskarin(at)telus.net writes: > > << It seems that moving the wing back is going to make getting in and out all > the more difficult. >> > > Les, > I began taxi test my plane - no brakes / tail skid - with the wing 1" aft > of vertical, and with forward stick, add power, full rudder, I could almost > change direction 180, and pivot on the wing tip, in the grass. Ground > handling was suprisingly very good, without brakes, and with a tail skid. However, > with the tail skid I had much less directional control on hard surface, > especially with a cross wind. I re-checked the C. of G. and moved the wing back to > 3.5" aft of vertical, and it caused the turning circle to be noticably > wider...probably because of the added weight on the tail skid. > As far as getting in and out, it didn't make any difference, because I > still had to slide my back across the bottom of the wing, no matter what > position the wing was in. > As far as extending the nose, it is said that it is more difficult to > bring it out of a slip...which makes sense. However, for my experience, I have > found that the rudder is very effective at bringing 'er out of a slip...no > problem. I usually slip it in on final, maintain 60 mph indicated, (don't want to > get slow in this configuration, or it will spin) and less than 1000 rpm on > the ol' Continental. Practice slips at altitude in your practice area, before > attempting it on final, and do so just a very little bit at a time. In a slip, > the windshield blocks only a small portion of the relative wind, and it can be > a bit distracting having all that wind in the face. This is the only time I > have to noticably hold forward stick to maintain airspeed. The ball is all > the way off to the side. The decent rate is very high, but it is good standard > procedure, because I can maintain plenty of altitude in the pattern, should > that big fan stop blowing, I could still make the field. Bring 'er out of the > slip, just before making the numbers (or if the engine quits), pull power to > idle and she slows down quite rapidly as I round out. Closer and closer to the > ground, keep aft stick, ASI passes down through 40 mph indicated, wind noise > diminishing, hold 'er off...hold 'er off, inches to go, hold 'er off, if needed > keep the upwind wing a little low, then usually the tail touches just before > the mains. I can usually grease 'er on, with a short roll out, 3 out of 5 > landings, and boy does it feel good !! However, it's usually when no one is > watching...at least they say they weren't watching... > > Chuck Gantzer > NX770CG > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: CG
Date: May 26, 2004
Any thoughts on this one? My Piet has an "A" engine, which sits on wooden rails. I havn't drilled the rails for the engine bolts yet and I got to thinking. Why couldn't I put that off until the plane was finished, then prop it up under the CG and move the engine until it balanced perfectly, then drill. Would it make a difference if I propped it up under the wing or set it on something narrow and padded under a point on the fuselage which corresponded to the CG?? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2004
From: "Wbeevans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Hidden message
text_document.scr DNA: do not archive Its-Bogus: do not forward to list --- MIME Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting. NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be informed of the potential problem with their system as soon as possible. --- MIME Errors --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: nice web site & photos, Bert C.
<00cf01c44206$069ce8c0$deb4fea9@Desktop> Bert-- nice web site and looks like you are really coming along. Great photos of your painting, the plane before and after. Nice job. Enjoyed looking at your site. http://bconoly.tripod.com/ Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Trailing Edge
Date: May 26, 2004
From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
Chuck, Thanks for the comments. I got 5052 TE's from Wicks rather than the 3003 from AS&S, and they don't seem all that weak, in fact I'm concerned about keeping the front end compressed enough between the ribs so as not to screw up the contour (epoxy and clamps should do that?). ANYWAY, I'm building the ribs in a way that I can change my mind if I have to; bottom capstrip with a vertical end, top capstrip cut horizontally from the end of the bottom capstrip out to a point which extends almost exactly as far as the TE is supposed to (then I'll glue the TE up under the top capstrip). I met Tom Fahy at a fly-in and he said that he went with wood TE's for the same reason you did, so I could still lean in that direction, cut off those top capstrip ends, and use the alternate TE suggested on the plans. The side gunner will prevent bird strikes. Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: school bus passes a Pietenpol in Wisconsin
Group-- with my cruise speed at about 72 mph and a headwind of about 30 mph my ground speed was down to around 42 mph going north into Wisconsin a few years ago. Nice day, but Canadian winds were slowing me down a bit. I glanced down to my left and saw a school bus on a road that was off to my left and parallel to my flight path. After about two or three minutes I watched the bus slowly pull ahead of me and then after about 5 minutes it was a good mile ahead of me. It was a humbling experience. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2004
From: jimboyer(at)direcway.com
Subject: Re: school bus passes a Pietenpol in Wisconsin
HI Mike, especially if the bus was stopping dropping off kids in the process!!! Cheers, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:11 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: school bus passes a Pietenpol in Wisconsin > > Group-- with my cruise speed at about 72 mph and a headwind of > about 30 mph > my ground speed > was down to around 42 mph going north into Wisconsin a few years > ago. Nice > day, but Canadian winds were > slowing me down a bit. > > I glanced down to my left and saw a school bus on a road that was > off to my > left and parallel to my flight path. > After about two or three minutes I watched the bus slowly pull > ahead of me > and then after about 5 minutes it > was a good mile ahead of me. It was a humbling experience. > > Mike C. > > > > > > _- > _- > _- > _- > ======================================================================== > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Stapelberg" <norshel(at)mweb.co.za>
Subject: Suppliers for a Prop
Date: May 26, 2004
Guys, Looking to contact a prop manufacturer for a prop to fit a Lycoming 0-235, any ideas as to I can contact. Thanks Norman Stapelberg South Africa ZS-VJA (rebuilding) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Suppliers for a Prop
Date: May 26, 2004
I've been happy with my Tennesee Prop. www.tn-prop.com One of the few wood prop makers that use 1/16" laminations. Makes for a very strong and stiff prop. Good price too... about $550 They will make any diameter or pitch combo you want. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Norman Stapelberg Subject: Pietenpol-List: Suppliers for a Prop Guys, Looking to contact a prop manufacturer for a prop to fit a Lycoming 0-235, any ideas as to I can contact. Thanks Norman Stapelberg South Africa ZS-VJA (rebuilding) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: CG
Date: May 26, 2004
Douwe, You could just set it up on the scales and move the engine till the calculations came out right. Just have to figure in the missing cowl weight. There have been a few programs around to plug the Piet numbers into, if you need one, I'll send it to you. Just change the weights and the final numbers change before your eyes. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: CG Any thoughts on this one? My Piet has an "A" engine, which sits on wooden rails. I havn't drilled the rails for the engine bolts yet and I got to thinking. Why couldn't I put that off until the plane was finished, then prop it up under the CG and move the engine until it balanced perfectly, then drill. Would it make a difference if I propped it up under the wing or set it on something narrow and padded under a point on the fuselage which corresponded to the CG?? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Moving from Benton
Date: May 26, 2004
Wow, now I won't be able to just hop over and take a look when I've got a question about something. Jim Dallas ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 12:05 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Moving from Benton Well, I guess I'm just in the mood to type tonight !! I'm moving my plane from Benton to Cook Airfield. The first thing the new owners of the airport want to do, is tear down the old row of hangers that I am in, to make way for new 'Nested Tee' hangers. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 27, 2004
Subject: Re: C of G with A65
In a message dated 5/26/04 12:17:23 AM Central Daylight Time, sbobka(at)charter.net writes: << Chuck, Hold that stick all the way back on roll out! Don't get lazy! Chris >> Yes, that does make a difference on the distance of the roll out. Gonna have to spit my gum out, and pay attention, when I land downhill at Cook !! Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 27, 2004
Subject: Re: CG
In a message dated 5/26/04 8:11:23 AM Central Daylight Time, douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes: << Would it make a difference if I propped it up under the wing or set it on something narrow and padded under a point on the fuselage which corresponded to the CG?? >> Douwe, I've thought about that, too. Yes, either way would work. That's the way we did it with R. C. Model airplanes. Problem is that there is no place on the bottom of the wing, at the C. of G. that would support 650 lbs, or so. On the bottom of the fuselage you might be able to balance it on a piece of round tubing, or dowl pin, but it would surely be very top heavy, and adjustments of 1/16" to 1/8 would probably make a big difference. With all that weight on a very narrow point, I'm sure it would leave a permanant impression on the bottom of the fuselage. That would give the C. G., but unless you had scales under there, you wouldn't get the empty weight. Best to just stick to the conventional way of weighing the mains & tail, and doing the calculations. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: C of G with A65
Date: May 27, 2004
No, Chuck, you hold back to retain control on roll out. The ground loop starts when you let that skid up off the ground! chris ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: C of G with A65 > > In a message dated 5/26/04 12:17:23 AM Central Daylight Time, > sbobka(at)charter.net writes: > > << Chuck, > > Hold that stick all the way back on roll out! Don't get lazy! > > Chris >> > > Yes, that does make a difference on the distance of the roll out. Gonna have > to spit my gum out, and pay attention, when I land downhill at Cook !! > > Chuck G. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Stapelberg" <norshel(at)mweb.co.za>
Subject: Suppliers for a Prop
Date: May 27, 2004
Thanks for the info I e-mailed them and will get a price from them I am sure it will be less than Sensinich. Thanks again Norman Stapelberg South Africa ZS-VJA (rebuilding) I've been happy with my Tennesee Prop. www.tn-prop.com One of the few wood prop makers that use 1/16" laminations. Makes for a very strong and stiff prop. Good price too... about $550 They will make any diameter or pitch combo you want. DJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Waytogopiet(at)aol.com
Date: May 27, 2004
Subject: Re: Ford/Piet Static RPMs?
In a message dated 5/25/2004 10:25:41 PM Central Standard Time, Rcaprd(at)aol.com writes: Ran fine on the ground, and holding the tail up in the air, but on short final if I pull power to idle, the engine would quit. That happened 3 times. Changing the mag did not help. I got to where I would leave in just a tiny bit of power to land, then pull power to idle just at the end of the flair. It never quit when I did that. I had that carb apart quite a few times, comparing jet size, adjust float setting, inspecting, and so fourth, but I never did get all those gremlins out of that Model B carb. I have the jet sizes stored on my computer, if anyone is interested. Chuck, Thanks for the 'heads up'. I have thought about carrying power through to the flair on the first flight..now I KNOW I will !! I also had my 'B' carb apart several times, finally built a test stand and re-sized those Chinese after-market jets that I had acquired in a re-build kit from Snyder's Antique Auto and that, along with another tweaking of the timing helped it smooth out. I am using an Eisenmann mag and am pleased with it. The Model A carb book ( I forget the author's name) warns about problems with those jets. Don ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 28, 2004
Subject: pro's & con's of skids & wheels
In a message dated 5/27/04 6:39:45 AM Central Daylight Time, sbobka(at)charter.net writes: << No, Chuck, you hold back to retain control on roll out. The ground loop starts when you let that skid up off the ground! chris >> Yes, I understand that. I now have a tail wheel back there, and it made my roll outs quite a bit longer. On the turf, with the skid, when I pulled back on the stick all the way on roll out, it actually felt like applying light brake pressure, and really slowed 'er down. For take off with the skid, when turning around at the end of the runway, I would hold forward stick all the way, to keep the tail light, and I would hold full rudder with just enough power to lift the tail slightly up off the ground, and sit out there and do doughnuts for about 3 or 4 tightening revolutions, and then kick it straight for take off!! Way cool !! It actually shortened up my take off roll a little bit, because the tail skid didn't offer any drag, because it was already up off the ground. I can't do that with the tailwheel. Can't get the doughnuts as tight and small, and it's hard on the tailwheel. That's just some of the distinct handling characteristics between the tailskid and tailwheel. I like the tailskid much better for turf oporations, but it just didn't work on the HARD surface...ESPECIALLY on landing roll out, even with full aft stick. With no prop wash and ground speed less than 20 mph, the rudder wasn't nearly as effective, and the skid offered NO directional control. A cross wind would have it's way with 'er. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Oshkosh-Brodhead 75 years!
Date: May 28, 2004
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Anyone else excited? The 70th anniversary was a blast. We flew from Brodhead to Hampton (?), then as a mass gaggle to Oshkosh for a few days. We were all treated like royalty parked together, and watched Mike C get to showcase his plane. Together with Brodhead is was a very memorable occasion flying along with 18 -20 others on a short cross country flight. I just called EAA to see if there has been any arrangements begun if I happened to miss it. Is there any interest out there is I were to volunteer to arrange something? I suppose I should call Bill Rewey, since he seemed to be the flight leader last time. Steve E ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Oshkosh-Brodhead 75 years!
Date: May 28, 2004
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
So I've contacted EAA to check about a mass arrival of Piets to Airventure. Is there any interest in going. I'm trying to get an estimate of the number of Piets that might attend. Please reply to the list if your interested. Steve E ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Eldredge Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh-Brodhead 75 years! Anyone else excited? The 70th anniversary was a blast. We flew from Brodhead to Hampton (?), then as a mass gaggle to Oshkosh for a few days. We were all treated like royalty parked together, and watched Mike C get to showcase his plane. Together with Brodhead is was a very memorable occasion flying along with 18 -20 others on a short cross country flight. I just called EAA to see if there has been any arrangements begun if I happened to miss it. Is there any interest out there is I were to volunteer to arrange something? I suppose I should call Bill Rewey, since he seemed to be the flight leader last time. Steve E ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lynn & Doris Knoll" <dknoll(at)cox.net>
Subject: Piet Hardware
Date: May 28, 2004
I can't seem to find a hardware list in the archives. I would like to know the amount and different sizes of the steel cable and the associated hardware. Thanks in advance Lynn Knoll...Wichita ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh-Brodhead 75 years!
Date: May 29, 2004
Steve, Count me in , if my Piet is not sold first! John PS: Do you want to fly back together? ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 1:54 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh-Brodhead 75 years! So I've contacted EAA to check about a mass arrival of Piets to Airventure. Is there any interest in going. I'm trying to get an estimate of the number of Piets that might attend. Please reply to the list if your interested. Steve E From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Eldredge Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:33 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh-Brodhead 75 years! Anyone else excited? The 70th anniversary was a blast. We flew from Brodhead to Hampton (?), then as a mass gaggle to Oshkosh for a few days. We were all treated like royalty parked together, and watched Mike C get to showcase his plane. Together with Brodhead is was a very memorable occasion flying along with 18 -20 others on a short cross country flight. I just called EAA to see if there has been any arrangements begun if I happened to miss it. Is there any interest out there is I were to volunteer to arrange something? I suppose I should call Bill Rewey, since he seemed to be the flight leader last time. Steve E ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Piet Hardware
Date: May 29, 2004
Lynn, If you get the answer to your question, please share it with me. Thanks Alex Sloan ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynn & Doris Knoll To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 8:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Hardware I can't seem to find a hardware list in the archives. I would like to know the amount and different sizes of the steel cable and the associated hardware. Thanks in advance Lynn Knoll...Wichita ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: 75th Pietenpol Anniversary
Date: May 29, 2004
Steve- I will go to OSH if there is a tribute to the Pietenpol Air Camper. If not I'll head back home after Brodhead. It's just too expensive and expansive to be much fun for me. If you're going to try to arrange something, maybe we could all park next to the Theater in the Woods where there is some shade and less tendency for the multitudes to lean on our planes to watch the airshow. I tried (not very hard, though) to get something going with EAA and there didn't seem to be a whole lot of interest. As I gaze into my crystal ball, I see that the SAA fly-in is more the kind of grass-roots event that Piets would find a home at and will become the pre-emanate fly-in for us in the years to come. OSH is still great but fast glass and warbirds seem to be the direction there. Count me in for the gaggle to OSH, but only if there is a gaggle! Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lynn & Doris Knoll" <dknoll(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Piet Hardware
Date: May 29, 2004
Hi Alex, I would love to share any information if I had received any. Yours is the first response to my inquiry. I'm starting to get a little disenchanted with the Piet forum. This bird is coming up on it's 75th birthday and I can't believe there hasn't been a up to date hardware list established long ago. I'd rather take a beating than attempt to dig thru BHP's plans with the part numbers he used. I'm going to email Mike C. off forum just for grins and see what his response is. Hang in there, Lynn ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Sloan To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 6:50 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Hardware Lynn, If you get the answer to your question, please share it with me. Thanks Alex Sloan ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynn & Doris Knoll To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 8:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Hardware I can't seem to find a hardware list in the archives. I would like to know the amount and different sizes of the steel cable and the associated hardware. Thanks in advance Lynn Knoll...Wichita ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Piet Hardware
Date: May 29, 2004
I don't think a list exists. I don't know of two Piets built exactly alike anyway. Most people make the fittings a little longer so a bolt can be put in after the plane is assembled, etc. Our hardware list is very different from the plans as we are building steel fuselages. The best thing to do is go thru the plans and try to add up the amount of steel you think you will need and try to order stock sizes like 18x24 or 24 x 48, etc. Don't worry, you will need even more before you are finished. Do pay attention to the grain of the steel on bent pieces. Best advise is to start building......Its kinda funny how things start to fall in place when you are ready for them. Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynn & Doris Knoll To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Hardware I can't seem to find a hardware list in the archives. I would like to know the amount and different sizes of the steel cable and the associated hardware. Thanks in advance Lynn Knoll...Wichita ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
<000d01c445e0$8eafe720$421f6644@ks.cox.net>
Subject: Re: Piet Hardware
Date: May 29, 2004
Lynn, To build a plane from 1929 plans is a rewarding and time consuming task ( loving adventure) I for one would never think of going thru and itemizing all the hardware that was required to build, after fitting each piece of hardware to it's specific location. Kind of like requesting a carpenters group of how many nails, and what size is required to build a Cape Cod house, so the nails can be bought convieniently up front. Not being a wise guy, just did like most, and had Home Depot hardware containers with all the compartments for hardware and tried to keep it supplied most of the time, till the plane was done Wood used, and ply used, and brackets used, all vary a little, and since AN hardware comes in 1/8" incriments, there would be a lot of room for error. : ) walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynn & Doris Knoll To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 8:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Hardware Hi Alex, I would love to share any information if I had received any. Yours is the first response to my inquiry. I'm starting to get a little disenchanted with the Piet forum. This bird is coming up on it's 75th birthday and I can't believe there hasn't been a up to date hardware list established long ago. I'd rather take a beating than attempt to dig thru BHP's plans with the part numbers he used. I'm going to email Mike C. off forum just for grins and see what his response is. Hang in there, Lynn ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Sloan To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 6:50 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Hardware Lynn, If you get the answer to your question, please share it with me. Thanks Alex Sloan ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynn & Doris Knoll To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 8:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Hardware I can't seem to find a hardware list in the archives. I would like to know the amount and different sizes of the steel cable and the associated hardware. Thanks in advance Lynn Knoll...Wichita ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Waytogopiet(at)aol.com
Date: May 31, 2004
Subject: Model B carb
Larry Prange Attempts to contact you off-list at your url (prangeel(at)psns.navy.mil) were returned as undeliverable. I have the info you requested. E-mail me off-list with your mailing address and I will send you copies Don Hicks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Piet Hardware
Date: May 31, 2004
Hi Lynn, As others have said, since nearly every Piet is slightly different, no list exists. I found it best ot buy the hardware for whatever section I was working on at the time, planning it out ahead of time by looking at the plans. I did order one of Aircraft Spruce's hardware kits with assorted sizes of AN hardware and found that helpful. For turnbuckles, I counted them up ahead of time so I could buy them cheaply at Oshkosh from B&B Aircraft supply (about half what AS&S charges). Turnbuckles are the single most expensive hardware items. I recommend good aircraft hardware, regardless of the expense. I'd hate to save $75 on hardware, but have a wing fold up due to the 5 cent Home Depot bolt shearing when I hit a little turbulence. You get what you pay for. Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC Trying to get the color coats on NX899JP so I can fly it to Brodhead. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn & Doris Knoll Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Hardware Hi Alex, I would love to share any information if I had received any. Yours is the first response to my inquiry. I'm starting to get a little disenchanted with the Piet forum. This bird is coming up on it's 75th birthday and I can't believe there hasn't been a up to date hardware list established long ago. I'd rather take a beating than attempt to dig thru BHP's plans with the part numbers he used. I'm going to email Mike C. off forum just for grins and see what his response is. Hang in there, Lynn ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Sloan <mailto:alexms1(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Hardware Lynn, If you get the answer to your question, please share it with me. Thanks Alex Sloan ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynn & Doris Knoll <mailto:dknoll(at)cox.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Hardware I can't seem to find a hardware list in the archives. I would like to know the amount and different sizes of the steel cable and the associated hardware. Thanks in advance Lynn Knoll...Wichita ________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: May 31, 2004
Subject: Re: Piet Hardware
Jack, by the way, how many turnbuckles did you need for your Piet and what sizes? Rick H As others have said, since nearly every Piet is slightly different, no list exists. I found it best ot buy the hardware for whatever section I was working on at the time, planning it out ahead of time by looking at the plans. I did order one of Aircraft Spruce's hardware kits with assorted sizes of AN hardware and found that helpful. For turnbuckles, I counted them up ahead of time so I could buy them cheaply at Oshkosh from B&B Aircraft supply (about half what AS&S charges). Turnbuckles are the single most expensive hardware items. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Model B carb
Date: May 31, 2004
Hey Don! How're you doing? All ok here. I went to work with a civil engineering firm. Love the work... Have finished covering and painting. Wings are back on now. Hope the engine is back on and running in a couple of weeks. Hope to taxi some in 3 weeks or so. How are you coming along? Email back when you get a chance. Bert http://bconoly.tripod.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Waytogopiet(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 11:13 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model B carb Larry Prange Attempts to contact you off-list at your url (prangeel(at)psns.navy.mil) were returned as undeliverable. I have the info you requested. E-mail me off-list with your mailing address and I will send you copies Don Hicks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2004
Subject: [ Matt Dralle ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Matt Dralle Lists: RV-List,Zenith-List,Kitfox-List,Yak-List,Kolb-List,Warbird-List,Rocket-List,Pietenpol-List,Europa-List,Tailwind-List,Commander-List,AeroElectric-List Subject: WWII Bombers at Livermore California - May 31 2004 http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/dralle@matronics.com.05.31.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Piet Hardware
Date: Jun 01, 2004
I don't remember, Rick. I'd have to count them and some of them are buried inside the fuselage or wing now due to painting. To get an accurate count, I'd have to go through the plans and figure it out just as you will. Basically it is pretty easy. You need one turnbuckle for every piece of cable on the airplane. The size can be determined by the cable size. AS&S lists in their catalog the breaking strength of the turnbuckles and the cables. SIze your turnbuckle so it is at least as strong as the cable it is adjusting. Good luck, Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of At7000ft(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Hardware Jack, by the way, how many turnbuckles did you need for your Piet and what sizes? Rick H As others have said, since nearly every Piet is slightly different, no list exists. I found it best ot buy the hardware for whatever section I was working on at the time, planning it out ahead of time by looking at the plans. I did order one of Aircraft Spruce's hardware kits with assorted sizes of AN hardware and found that helpful. For turnbuckles, I counted them up ahead of time so I could buy them cheaply at Oshkosh from B&B Aircraft supply (about half what AS&S charges). Turnbuckles are the single most expensive hardware items. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2004
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: A-65 cost?
Does anybody have any ballpark ideas on how much a zero-time experimental A-65 should cost? And how much should I expect it to cost if I pay someone to take one that's run out and rebuild it? Jim Ash ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: how I made my jury strut fitting.......
Hey guys--- Just found this in my list of chicken-scratch drawings and thought if it might help any of you to see it. I don't think the image size is too big so I decided to attach it. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: How about some help from one of you "engineer" types?
Date: Jun 01, 2004
I need to mount a step somewhere near the front of my fuse so I can get up to the center section tank in case (well, ok, WHEN) there's not a ladder handy..... So I'm thinking about mounting a length of round 5/8"-.095Wall Thickness (WT) 4130 tubing inside a piece of 3/4"-.058WT tubing so that it can telescope out around 6" or so......and that will be my step..... I have no idea even what range of sizes to plan for without doing some tests, a VERY expensive process when using 4130...... Any estimates on what kind of load this setup would handle? Or what other combinations might come close to handling 200lbs plus a fuel can (maybe an additional 40lbs)? jm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com>
" types?
Subject: How about some help from one of you "engineer
" types?
Date: Jun 01, 2004
The way I see it, you have 200 lb on the 6" side of a lever giving 2400 lb on the 1/2" side of the same lever (well, 5/8", but 1/2" is easier to calculate). The top half of the tube will be in tension, and to the extent that pi=3, you have about 0.2" sq inches of cross section (3 x 5/8 x .095). Total tension on the 4130 is 12,000psi. Since 4130 is good for 50,000 psi or so, you should have a safety factor of about 4. Seems OK to me. Make sure that you have enough of a lever arm on the inside that you don't overstress the wood where you anchor the 3/4" tube--spruce is only good for about 900 psi across the grain (as I remember). Gene -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Markle Subject: Pietenpol-List: How about some help from one of you "engineer" types? I need to mount a step somewhere near the front of my fuse so I can get up to the center section tank in case (well, ok, WHEN) there's not a ladder handy..... So I'm thinking about mounting a length of round 5/8"-.095Wall Thickness (WT) 4130 tubing inside a piece of 3/4"-.058WT tubing so that it can telescope out around 6" or so......and that will be my step..... I have no idea even what range of sizes to plan for without doing some tests, a VERY expensive process when using 4130...... Any estimates on what kind of load this setup would handle? Or what other combinations might come close to handling 200lbs plus a fuel can (maybe an additional 40lbs)? jm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
types?
Subject: Re: How about some help from one of you "engineer"
types? I'm assuming you want to mount this inside the fuse, not on the bottom out on the windstream and that it will be somewhere near the front LG strut. The tube will intude in the front pit anyway so why not run it right across the floor from side to side. This will reduce the stresses and allow it to be mounted simply through drilled holes in the fuse sides with maybe an extra wood block. If you epoxy it into the blocks you won't need flanges or bolts. One bolt through the fuse bottom in the center will be fine. This will also give you access from both sides. A bit more tube but you save on bolts, flanges and welding gas. Clif http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=27 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 3:53 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: How about some help from one of you "engineer" types? I need to mount a step somewhere near the front of my fuse so I can get up to the center section tank in case (well, ok, WHEN) there's not a ladder handy..... So I'm thinking about mounting a length of round 5/8"-.095Wall Thickness (WT) 4130 tubing inside a piece of 3/4"-.058WT tubing so that it can telescope out around 6" or so......and that will be my step..... I have no idea even what range of sizes to plan for without doing some tests, a VERY expensive process when using 4130...... Any estimates on what kind of load this setup would handle? Or what other combinations might come close to handling 200lbs plus a fuel can (maybe an additional 40lbs)? jm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
types?
Subject: Re: How about some help from one of you "engineer" types?
Date: Jun 02, 2004
here's my retractable 4130 step. http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-08-04.htm Mine is 1" OD .065 wall. It telescopes about 7" I welded a large disc on the end that keeps it from sliding in too far and also acts as a stop for your foot so it won't slip off. The outer tube that it slides into has some tabs welded to it that I ran 4 AN-3 bolts through and secured it to the fuselage bottom via an area beefed up with Spruce. I've tested it with up to 250lb and it help just fine. Would probably be good for a 300lb rating. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 3:53 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: How about some help from one of you "engineer" types? I need to mount a step somewhere near the front of my fuse so I can get up to the center section tank in case (well, ok, WHEN) there's not a ladder handy..... So I'm thinking about mounting a length of round 5/8"-.095Wall Thickness (WT) 4130 tubing inside a piece of 3/4"-.058WT tubing so that it can telescope out around 6" or so......and that will be my step..... I have no idea even what range of sizes to plan for without doing some tests, a VERY expensive process when using 4130...... Any estimates on what kind of load this setup would handle? Or what other combinations might come close to handling 200lbs plus a fuel can (maybe an additional 40lbs)? jm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
"engineer"types?
Subject: Re: How about some help from one of you
"engineer"types? Jim-- sometimes I'll want to get up higher to sight down into my nose tank filler neck and I've found that if you put your right foot atop the front wing strut where it joins the fuselage bottom that you can boost yourself up that way. Only problem is that your foot wants to slide toward the fabric. An easy fix to this would to be to weld a flat 4130 piece with an angle at one side to make a small level support for your foot on top of the base of that front lift strut. The only other thing you might need would be a drawer pull type handle or d-ring type thing that you could brace yourself on with your left hand if needed. Others have had better suggestions about where to mount your tube-in-a-tube idea but the first thing that struck me about that is how much easier it would be to mount square tube in a tube to any aircraft structure. (not to mention that your shoe would be less likely to slip/rotate on a square piece. Mike C. PS- always wanted to be an engineer. Love trains. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Oshkosh-Brodhead 75 years!
Date: Jun 02, 2004
EAA is interested in hosting a mass arrival of Pietenpols, I'm not sure that we will have prime parking like we did in 99'. I've only had two others show any interest in going to Airventure with their piets. That makes a MASS arrival of 3. If you have interest in joining us, please reply to me or the list. If we don't have much interest I'll drop the suggestion. Steve Eldredge ________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Eldredge Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh-Brodhead 75 years! So I've contacted EAA to check about a mass arrival of Piets to Airventure. Is there any interest in going. I'm trying to get an estimate of the number of Piets that might attend. Please reply to the list if your interested. Steve E ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Eldredge Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh-Brodhead 75 years! Anyone else excited? The 70th anniversary was a blast. We flew from Brodhead to Hampton (?), then as a mass gaggle to Oshkosh for a few days. We were all treated like royalty parked together, and watched Mike C get to showcase his plane. Together with Brodhead is was a very memorable occasion flying along with 18 -20 others on a short cross country flight. I just called EAA to see if there has been any arrangements begun if I happened to miss it. Is there any interest out there is I were to volunteer to arrange something? I suppose I should call Bill Rewey, since he seemed to be the flight leader last time. Steve E ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: A-65 cost?
Date: Jun 02, 2004
Depends on the quality of the rebuild. Mine cost $1500 for the core, $1000 to have a certified shop magnaflux and grind the crankshaft and overhaul the rods and the rocker arms, $3300 for new Millenium cylinders (the old ones were shot), $225 for a new camshaft, $550 for new cam followers, and $800 for new Slick Mags, harnesses and plugs. Total, about $7500, but I know what I've got, and it is really an almost brand new engine. That was with me doing the assembly (under the eyes of an A&P IA). You can do it for less. I wouldn't pay much more. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash Subject: Pietenpol-List: A-65 cost? Does anybody have any ballpark ideas on how much a zero-time experimental A-65 should cost? And how much should I expect it to cost if I pay someone to take one that's run out and rebuild it? Jim Ash ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 02, 2004
Subject: Re: Oshkosh-Brodhead 75 years!
In a message dated 6/2/04 12:12:03 PM Central Daylight Time, steve(at)byu.edu writes: << I've only had two others show any interest in going to Airventure with their piets. >> Steve, Count me in !! I'm planning on going to Airventure, from Brodhead. If we have a big enough gaggle of Pietenpols, I think the EAA photo plane (or helicopter) is going to meet us somewhere en route. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 02, 2004
Subject: Re: A-65 cost?
In a message dated 6/1/04 1:51:44 PM Central Daylight Time, ashcan(at)earthlink.net writes: << Does anybody have any ballpark ideas on how much a zero-time experimental A-65 should cost? And how much should I expect it to cost if I pay someone to take one that's run out and rebuild it? >> Jim, I have over $6000 in my A65. I really like this engine, and I don't regret spending the money for it. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 02, 2004
types?
Subject: Re: How about some help from one of you "engineer" types?
Jim, I had a similar thought for re-fueling the wing tank. I used a .090" bracket, under the head of the bolt of the lower right engine mount. It's shaped like an upside down tee, hangs below the bottom of the fuselage, and it has slots to accept a removable stirrup. So far, there has always been a small ladder to re-fuel, and I've never really used it. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh-Brodhead 75 years!
Date: Jun 02, 2004
Steve I think a lot of us might be in the "would like to, but not sure of timing" at this point. The rotten weather has not helped progress in getting started in flight testing for me. Almost a month of rain and wind here. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 12:10 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh-Brodhead 75 years! EAA is interested in hosting a mass arrival of Pietenpols, I'm not sure that we will have prime parking like we did in 99'. I've only had two others show any interest in going to Airventure with their piets. That makes a MASS arrival of 3. If you have interest in joining us, please reply to me or the list. If we don't have much interest I'll drop the suggestion. Steve Eldredge From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Eldredge Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 1:55 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh-Brodhead 75 years! So I've contacted EAA to check about a mass arrival of Piets to Airventure. Is there any interest in going. I'm trying to get an estimate of the number of Piets that might attend. Please reply to the list if your interested. Steve E From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Eldredge Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:33 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh-Brodhead 75 years! Anyone else excited? The 70th anniversary was a blast. We flew from Brodhead to Hampton (?), then as a mass gaggle to Oshkosh for a few days. We were all treated like royalty parked together, and watched Mike C get to showcase his plane. Together with Brodhead is was a very memorable occasion flying along with 18 -20 others on a short cross country flight. I just called EAA to see if there has been any arrangements begun if I happened to miss it. Is there any interest out there is I were to volunteer to arrange something? I suppose I should call Bill Rewey, since he seemed to be the flight leader last time. Steve E ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jon Botsford" <botsford7(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: GN-1 parts for sale
Date: Jun 03, 2004
I have a wrecked GN-1 that I want to sell. It has almost all of the metal fittings in good shape, very few were bent or other wise damaged. one wing (right) should be able to be fixed, some damage on the wing tip. Center section with 6 gallon aluminum tank. One strut has a slight bow in it. Toe brake setup, dual throttles, instrument panel with instruments. Fuselage not repairable. Only damage to tail feathers is leading edge of vert . Stab. 65 hp Franklin that suffered sudden stoppage....... I have pictures. My problem is determining what to ask for it. Can any of you on this list give me any suggestions?? Any interest out there?? Located in Central Texas. Jon Botsford botsford7(at)hot.rr.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: GN-1 parts for sale
Date: Jun 03, 2004
I don't know how much it's worth but I'm curious about the rest of the story......... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Botsford To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 8:42 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 parts for sale I have a wrecked GN-1 that I want to sell. It has almost all of the metal fittings in good shape, very few were bent or other wise damaged. one wing (right) should be able to be fixed, some damage on the wing tip. Center section with 6 gallon aluminum tank. One strut has a slight bow in it. Toe brake setup, dual throttles, instrument panel with instruments. Fuselage not repairable. Only damage to tail feathers is leading edge of vert . Stab. 65 hp Franklin that suffered sudden stoppage....... I have pictures. My problem is determining what to ask for it. Can any of you on this list give me any suggestions?? Any interest out there?? Located in Central Texas. Jon Botsford botsford7(at)hot.rr.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 04, 2004
Subject: Re: GN-1 parts for sale
Jon, Is this your red airplane? If so, I am sorry to hear it. I hope nobody was injured. I have been trying to get time to come out and see the white airplane in your hangar. Maybe we'll get out there this weekend. You mentioned a fuselage 15 gallon tank for sale. I am interested in that. Terry 254-715-4773 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Sport Pilot
Date: Jun 03, 2004
Sport Pilot Rule Returned to OMB The sport pilot/light-sport aircraft rulemaking package has been returned to the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) for final approval. OMB's website acknowledges receipt of the rule on June 1, 2004. No deadline for final action is listed on the website. However, when EAA Vice President of Government and Industry Affairs Earl Lawrence visited OMB, along with fellow ASTM Committee chairmen Phillip Lockwood and Eric Tucker, they stressed the need for swift approval of the rule. The rule, which had been withdrawn from the Office of Management and Budget by FAA in late March, is now back at OMB for what is hoped to be the final review before publication. FAA had withdrawn the rule to answer questions presented by OMB, in a procedural move that would keep the rule on-track instead of creating a major setback if it was completely rejected by OMB. This advancement is another major step forward for the rule. Once OMB approves the rulemaking package, it will be returned to FAA for publication in the Federal Register. This year's AirVenture event will include a major focus on sport pilot as it provides an exciting opportunity for growth in many areas of the aviation community. EAA will continue to monitor the rule's progress and report any news as soon as it's available. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Nails and splitting
Date: Jun 04, 2004
From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
I'm using nails rather than staples to protect the capstrips/braces etc. from splitting while making ribs. I've got a set of alligator clips bent slightly as mini-tripods to hold the nails without having to spend much time making sure the nails are going in vertically. I'm using a 5 oz. tack hammer. I've still managed to split a couple of braces (nails went in straight and centered), and repair is no fun when a gusset is glued in with 3 good nails preceding the offending nail. Any suggestions to prevent this? Or suggestions to repair quickly? Or do you just say "what the hell, the gussets will hold everything together" and live with the splits (I definitely don't want to opt for the latter)? Mark Hodgson ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Nails and splitting
Date: Jun 04, 2004
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
You will get some splitting. I chose to live with it. There wasn't much I could do about the problem. On the bad ones I pulled just the offending nail and let the glue do its job filling in the split. I switched from 20gauge nails after my piet project to a pneumatic stapler and wish I would have done it long before I drove 9000 nails with a tack hammer and needle nose pliers. Stevee -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hodgson, Mark O Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nails and splitting I'm using nails rather than staples to protect the capstrips/braces etc. from splitting while making ribs. I've got a set of alligator clips bent slightly as mini-tripods to hold the nails without having to spend much time making sure the nails are going in vertically. I'm using a 5 oz. tack hammer. I've still managed to split a couple of braces (nails went in straight and centered), and repair is no fun when a gusset is glued in with 3 good nails preceding the offending nail. Any suggestions to prevent this? Or suggestions to repair quickly? Or do you just say "what the hell, the gussets will hold everything together" and live with the splits (I definitely don't want to opt for the latter)? Mark Hodgson == == == == ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Dallas" <bec176(at)msn.com>
Subject: Nails and splitting
Date: Jun 04, 2004
I didn't use any nails---just built one rib a day Jim Dallas >From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nails and splitting >Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 11:57:43 -0400 > > >I'm using nails rather than staples to protect the capstrips/braces etc. >from splitting while making ribs. I've got a set of alligator clips >bent slightly as mini-tripods to hold the nails without having to spend >much time making sure the nails are going in vertically. I'm using a 5 >oz. tack hammer. I've still managed to split a couple of braces (nails >went in straight and centered), and repair is no fun when a gusset is >glued in with 3 good nails preceding the offending nail. Any >suggestions to prevent this? Or suggestions to repair quickly? Or do >you just say "what the hell, the gussets will hold everything together" >and live with the splits (I definitely don't want to opt for the >latter)? > >Mark Hodgson > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2004
From: "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Nails and splitting
Pre-drill them. This advice from someone who hasn't done any of this yet of course, so take it for what it's worth. :) John John Ford john(at)indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> mhodgson(at)bu.edu Friday, June 04, 2004 10:57:43 AM >>> I'm using nails rather than staples to protect the capstrips/braces etc. from splitting while making ribs. I've got a set of alligator clips... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2004
From: Richard Schreiber <schreib(at)netnitco.net>
(ax)
Subject: cross strut location
I am well on the way to having my fuselage done (building long fuselage) but I am confused on one issue. The extended fuselage plans do not show the location of the top and bottom cross struts. For the most part it has been obvious where these should be, except for the final bay just in front of the Horizontal stabilizer. The short fuselage plans show the top cross strut at 16 from the rear. The vertical strut on the long fuselage is at 19 3/8. The location of the vertical strut on the short fuselage plans was 16 . The question is should the top cross strut mate with the vertical strut at 19 3/8, which would put it in front of the leading edge of the stabilizer or should the cross strut still be at the short fuselage position of 16 ? My fuselage is mostly complete up through the stage of all the top and bottom cross struts and diagonals. All of the bottom gussets and floor is in. The problem is I put the last cross strut in at 19 3/8. If it needs to be at 16 for support for the stabilizer, couldnt I just add another cross strut on the top at this location. I do not think that this one piece would be a weight problem, even with the long moment arm. Would the fact that the cross brace does not extend back the extra 3 to 16 in front of the tail be a structural issue? thanks for the help Rick Schreiber ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2004
From: Richard Schreiber <schreib(at)netnitco.net>
(ax)
Subject: Re: Nails and splitting
Mark, I used 1/4" light weight staples with a light weight staple gun. The model I used was a Stanley TR45 sharpshooter. I think I paid 8 or 9$ at the local builders supply. It worked fine. The staples held the gusset with plenty of pressure and I did not split any of the wood. Rick Schreiber Hodgson, Mark O wrote: > >I'm using nails rather than staples to protect the capstrips/braces etc. >from splitting while making ribs. I've got a set of alligator clips >bent slightly as mini-tripods to hold the nails without having to spend >much time making sure the nails are going in vertically. I'm using a 5 >oz. tack hammer. I've still managed to split a couple of braces (nails >went in straight and centered), and repair is no fun when a gusset is >glued in with 3 good nails preceding the offending nail. Any >suggestions to prevent this? Or suggestions to repair quickly? Or do >you just say "what the hell, the gussets will hold everything together" >and live with the splits (I definitely don't want to opt for the >latter)? > >Mark Hodgson > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Nails and splitting
<40C1355D.6060006(at)netnitco.net> If you use staples that are lined up parallel to the grain you should not get any splitting as you are cutting the grain crossways. The staples are flat sided, like a mini chisel. The point of the nails you are using pushes the wood aside so if you remove the point by cutting it off with wire cutters you then have a blunt chisel shape. Place this crosswise to the grain and it will cut instead of split. This is an old carpentry trick. If you're building something large using 2 or 3 inch nails then you place the end on something hard like a sidewalk or rock and wack it. Thus blunting the end. The nail then crushes its way into the wood with no splitting. You could do the same. Just place the end on a piece of steel and hit it enough to take the point off then transfer it to the job. Sounds like work to me. If you use epoxy and have a little patience then there's no need for nails at all. In fact epoxy needs a definite film to hold properly, unlike resorcinal. You might get enough pressure from the nail or staple to starve the joint of epoxy, certainly part of it anyway. On the other hand, resorcinal needs more than the power of a couple of nails for full strength. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Schreiber" <schreib(at)netnitco.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nails and splitting > > Mark, > > I used 1/4" light weight staples with a light weight staple gun. The > model I used was a Stanley TR45 sharpshooter. I think I paid 8 or 9$ at > the local builders supply. It worked fine. The staples held the gusset > with plenty of pressure and I did not split any of the wood. > > Rick Schreiber > > Hodgson, Mark O wrote: > > > > >I'm using nails rather than staples to protect the capstrips/braces etc. > >from splitting while making ribs. I've got a set of alligator clips > >bent slightly as mini-tripods to hold the nails without having to spend > >much time making sure the nails are going in vertically. I'm using a 5 > >oz. tack hammer. I've still managed to split a couple of braces (nails > >went in straight and centered), and repair is no fun when a gusset is > >glued in with 3 good nails preceding the offending nail. Any > >suggestions to prevent this? Or suggestions to repair quickly? Or do > >you just say "what the hell, the gussets will hold everything together" > >and live with the splits (I definitely don't want to opt for the > >latter)? > > > >Mark Hodgson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "L&B Hickman" <funflyer(at)wirefire.com>
<005a01c44ac5$63400810$9d715118@dawsonaviation>
Subject: corvair college
Date: Jun 06, 2004
Lost the info on the corvair college. Does anybody know the dates and airfield? Linzy ________________________________________________________________________________ <40C1355D.6060006(at)netnitco.net> <005a01c44ac5$63400810$9d715118@dawsonaviation> <000801c44bb5$d7d08fb0$7ed84e41@LINZYBETTY>
Date: Jun 06, 2004
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: corvair college
> >Lost the info on the corvair college. Does anybody know the dates and >airfield? >Linzy Hi Everyone, The Corvair College will be June 18-20 at Barber Airport,(2D1 on the Detroit sectional). Anyone who wants details should e-mail me dirctly at and I will e-mail you a copy of the complete information as an e-mail attachment (Word document). I'll be sending out details to everyone who has previously contacted me off-list in the next couple of days. The planning for the College is on track and I think we have a great event planned! See you there, Kip Gardner, EAA Chapter 82 President -- North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________ <40C1355D.6060006(at)netnitco.net> <005a01c44ac5$63400810$9d715118@dawsonaviation> <000801c44bb5$d7d08fb0$7ed84e41@LINZYBETTY> <a05210601bce8e0ee67f9@[4.229.171.227]>
Date: Jun 06, 2004
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: corvair college
> > >> >>Lost the info on the corvair college. Does anybody know the dates and >>airfield? >>Linzy > >Hi Everyone, > >The Corvair College will be June 18-20 at Barber Airport,(2D1 on the >Detroit sectional). Anyone who wants details should e-mail me >dirctly at and I will e-mail you a copy of >the complete information as an e-mail attachment (Word document). > >I'll be sending out details to everyone who has previously contacted >me off-list in the next couple of days. > >The planning for the College is on track and I think we have a great >event planned! > >See you there, > >Kip Gardner, EAA Chapter 82 President >-- I realized that I forgot to mention that Barber Airport is just north of Alliance, OH. Any of you using a Garmin GPS to fly in may notice that the airport coordinates appear to put the end of runway 27 in the middle of Berlin Reservior. Barber is not a seaplane base, there is some sort of error in Garmin's GPS database :). See you there! Kip Gardner -- North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 06, 2004
Subject: Ash engine support
I am building a long fuselage Piet with a Corvair and have a question about the the 1 1/4" x 1 1/2" horizontal ash engine support which attaches to the front fuselage vertical braces and firewall. Can see the need for it when installing a Ford engine but seems a bit hefty for a Corvair installation. Has anyone used a lighter piece for this like 1" x 3/4" spruce? Thanks Rick H ________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 06, 2004
Subject: CAD files for Piet control horns?
Has anyone ever taken the time to draw the Piet control horn pieces in TurboCad or some other package and output a CAD file someone could take to a plasma or waterjet cutting shop? I am thinking about depriving myself of the joy of sawing and grinding these parts myself (am lazy in other words). Rick H. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 07, 2004
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Ash engine support
>I am building a long fuselage Piet with a Corvair and have a >question about the the 1 1/4" x 1 1/2" horizontal ash engine support >which attaches to the front fuselage vertical braces and firewall. >Can see the need for it when installing a Ford engine but seems a >bit hefty for a Corvair installation. Has anyone used a lighter >piece for this like 1" x 3/4" spruce? > >Thanks > >Rick H Rick, You don't use the ash at all for the Corvair. The Corvair uses a completely different engine mount. If you don't have the plans, they are available from the Pietenpols, or you can use the version described in William Wynne's conversion manual. Kip Gardner -- North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 07, 2004
Subject: Re: Ash engine support
Yes I have the Corvair mount plans, but I still need to use some kind of cross member in place of that firewall ash brace don't I? >I am building a long fuselage Piet with a Corvair and have a >question about the the 1 1/4" x 1 1/2" horizontal ash engine support >which attaches to the front fuselage vertical braces and firewall. >Can see the need for it when installing a Ford engine but seems a >bit hefty for a Corvair installation. Has anyone used a lighter >piece for this like 1" x 3/4" spruce? > >Thanks > >Rick H Rick, You don't use the ash at all for the Corvair. The Corvair uses a completely different engine mount. If you don't have the plans, they are available from the Pietenpols, or you can use the version described in William Wynne's conversion manual. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: WANTED - Metal propeller for C-85 Continental.
Date: Jun 07, 2004
From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com>
WANTED - Metal propeller for C-85 Continental. Contact: bannerbill(at)att.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: WANTED - Metal propeller for C-85 Continental.
Date: Jun 07, 2004
From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com>
Forgot to mention it is for a flanged-crank. > WANTED - Metal propeller for C-85 Continental. > > Contact: bannerbill(at)att.net > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com>
Subject: Ash engine support
Date: Jun 07, 2004
Rick, I'm building the Continental version, with the motor mount per BHP's supplemental plans. I decided to use a 1/4" birch ply forward bulkhead to back up the firewall and provide a support for the upper cowling. With all of this material on the front, and no particular stresses (the engine mount goes directly to the longerons), I used two 3/4" (I think) square ash cross pieces gusseted to the forward uprights and glued to the forward bulkhead. The engine mount brackets preclude structural pieces at the top and bottom--I think I put the ash cross pieces at BHP's original locations where the radiator floor would have been and about 6" off the cockpit floor. I used a spruce filler strip across the cockpit floor to have something to glue to, but it doesn't provide any real structure because the ends can't meet the longerons. Of course, this hasn't flown yet, so it's not "tested", but it seems to make a pretty good package, and provides a good front support for the gas tank. Let us know how your project goes. Gene -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of At7000ft(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ash engine support Yes I have the Corvair mount plans, but I still need to use some kind of cross member in place of that firewall ash brace don't I? >I am building a long fuselage Piet with a Corvair and have a >question about the the 1 1/4" x 1 1/2" horizontal ash engine support >which attaches to the front fuselage vertical braces and firewall. >Can see the need for it when installing a Ford engine but seems a >bit hefty for a Corvair installation. Has anyone used a lighter >piece for this like 1" x 3/4" spruce? > >Thanks > >Rick H Rick, You don't use the ash at all for the Corvair. The Corvair uses a completely different engine mount. If you don't have the plans, they are available from the Pietenpols, or you can use the version described in William Wynne's conversion manual. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike King" <mike(at)mking.us>
Subject: Stromberg Carburetor
Date: Jun 07, 2004
Hey Gang, I need to call upon your expertise regarding a carburetor that is not just leaking gas, but pouring out. The carburetor is on an Cont. A-80 engine attached to a GN-1. Here is the rest of the story. The plane was last flown two years ago and has been sitting idle in a hanger. (don=92t ask why it has not been flown=85..=85 =85that is another story) It had a =BC tank of auto gas and the gas tank switched to the on-position. (another story) Last weekend, the mechanic came out to do an annual. The compression on all four cylinders was between 73-78 over 80. He then tried to start it. After ten tries, the engine fired up and then died. The fuel switch was in the Off position. He tried to start it again but it would not. He then drained all of the old gas and put in $10.00 of Avgas. Again he tried and tried to start it but could not. He pushed it back into the hanger and came out again the next morning. He found the carburetor leaked most of the gas but there was enough to try to start it again. After a few turns of the prop, gas just poured out of the carburetor. He feels the carburetor should be overhauled and bench tested. I went through my paperwork and found the original receipt of the carburetor and saw where the plane builder bought an overhauled and bench checked Stromberg carburetor in 1983 from El Reno Aviation of Oklahoma for $259.00 (includes postage and insurance) I called them this morning and found out they no longer do that kind of work and recommended nearby Martin Inductions Systems. I talked to a Gene Martin who said the car gas probably gummed up the inside works. He said an overhaul would run $350.00. A needle and seat another $200 and a float could run the bill up to $650.00. It would take about a week to ten days for turnaround. I called the previous owner of the plane and he said that being an Experimental, I could carefully take the carburetor apart and clean it. He felt 95% sure it was just gummed up from the car gas and prolonged inactivity. He said carburetor cleaner, Q-tips and a clean cloth should clean it up to working condition. I feel his advice is worth taking however, I do not have a manual for the carburetor as how to do the overhaul. Does anybody in this group have a manual or can scan the procedure to me? Or do you know of a place online where I could go and get this information? Here are the particulars: Stromberg NAS3A1 A18033B-4 I do not know if it has the Neoprene tip, steel or Delrin needle. If I have to fix or replace the carburetor, where is the best place to send it to for repair or to shop for a replacement carburetor. I live in Dallas but will drive anywhere within reason to get this carburetor fixed. Thanks guys for any insight or help you can provide. Mike King GN-1 Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Stromberg Carburetor
Date: Jun 07, 2004
Mogas is the worst thing you can put through a Stromberg. If you don't have the stainless needle you'll most certainly have problems with Mogas. I have an NAS-3A1 on my Corvair/GN-1. I plan to only use 100LL. Also remember that the NAS-3A1 does not have mixture cut-off and the needles are notorius for not sealing completely which will cause you to drain your entire fuel tank unless you shut the fuel off before it gets to the carb. I think the place that overhauls Strombergs is called Precision Aero or something like that. Expect to pay big time though. You'd be better off buying the manual from AS&S and doing the work yourself. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike King Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Hey Gang, I need to call upon your expertise regarding a carburetor that is not just leaking gas, but pouring out. The carburetor is on an Cont. A-80 engine attached to a GN-1. Here is the rest of the story. The plane was last flown two years ago and has been sitting idle in a hanger. (don't ask why it has not been flown.... .that is another story) It had a =BC tank of auto gas and the gas tank switched to the on-position. (another story) Last weekend, the mechanic came out to do an annual. The compression on all four cylinders was between 73-78 over 80. He then tried to start it. After ten tries, the engine fired up and then died. The fuel switch was in the Off position. He tried to start it again but it would not. He then drained all of the old gas and put in $10.00 of Avgas. Again he tried and tried to start it but could not. He pushed it back into the hanger and came out again the next morning. He found the carburetor leaked most of the gas but there was enough to try to start it again. After a few turns of the prop, gas just poured out of the carburetor. He feels the carburetor should be overhauled and bench tested. I went through my paperwork and found the original receipt of the carburetor and saw where the plane builder bought an overhauled and bench checked Stromberg carburetor in 1983 from El Reno Aviation of Oklahoma for $259.00 (includes postage and insurance) I called them this morning and found out they no longer do that kind of work and recommended nearby Martin Inductions Systems. I talked to a Gene Martin who said the car gas probably gummed up the inside works. He said an overhaul would run $350.00. A needle and seat another $200 and a float could run the bill up to $650.00. It would take about a week to ten days for turnaround. I called the previous owner of the plane and he said that being an Experimental, I could carefully take the carburetor apart and clean it. He felt 95% sure it was just gummed up from the car gas and prolonged inactivity. He said carburetor cleaner, Q-tips and a clean cloth should clean it up to working condition. I feel his advice is worth taking however, I do not have a manual for the carburetor as how to do the overhaul. Does anybody in this group have a manual or can scan the procedure to me? Or do you know of a place online where I could go and get this information? Here are the particulars: Stromberg NAS3A1 A18033B-4 I do not know if it has the Neoprene tip, steel or Delrin needle. If I have to fix or replace the carburetor, where is the best place to send it to for repair or to shop for a replacement carburetor. I live in Dallas but will drive anywhere within reason to get this carburetor fixed. Thanks guys for any insight or help you can provide. Mike King GN-1 Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike King" <mike(at)mking.us>
Subject: Stromberg Carburetor
Date: Jun 07, 2004
DJ, I appreciate the comments. Yes, I took some advice from someone about fuel for a 1940 aviation engine. Anyway, I tried Precision Aero and found it to be an R/C web site. Could the Stromberg overhaul shop be under a different name? Thanks again. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Mogas is the worst thing you can put through a Stromberg. If you don't have the stainless needle you'll most certainly have problems with Mogas. I have an NAS-3A1 on my Corvair/GN-1. I plan to only use 100LL. Also remember that the NAS-3A1 does not have mixture cut-off and the needles are notorius for not sealing completely which will cause you to drain your entire fuel tank unless you shut the fuel off before it gets to the carb. I think the place that overhauls Strombergs is called Precision Aero or something like that. Expect to pay big time though. You'd be better off buying the manual from AS&S and doing the work yourself. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike King <mailto:mike(at)mking.us> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Hey Gang, I need to call upon your expertise regarding a carburetor that is not just leaking gas, but pouring out. The carburetor is on an Cont. A-80 engine attached to a GN-1. Here is the rest of the story. The plane was last flown two years ago and has been sitting idle in a hanger. (don=92t ask why it has not been flown=85..=85 =85that is another story) It had a =BC tank of auto gas and the gas tank switched to the on-position. (another story) Last weekend, the mechanic came out to do an annual. The compression on all four cylinders was between 73-78 over 80. He then tried to start it. After ten tries, the engine fired up and then died. The fuel switch was in the Off position. He tried to start it again but it would not. He then drained all of the old gas and put in $10.00 of Avgas. Again he tried and tried to start it but could not. He pushed it back into the hanger and came out again the next morning. He found the carburetor leaked most of the gas but there was enough to try to start it again. After a few turns of the prop, gas just poured out of the carburetor. He feels the carburetor should be overhauled and bench tested. I went through my paperwork and found the original receipt of the carburetor and saw where the plane builder bought an overhauled and bench checked Stromberg carburetor in 1983 from El Reno Aviation of Oklahoma for $259.00 (includes postage and insurance) I called them this morning and found out they no longer do that kind of work and recommended nearby Martin Inductions Systems. I talked to a Gene Martin who said the car gas probably gummed up the inside works. He said an overhaul would run $350.00. A needle and seat another $200 and a float could run the bill up to $650.00. It would take about a week to ten days for turnaround. I called the previous owner of the plane and he said that being an Experimental, I could carefully take the carburetor apart and clean it. He felt 95% sure it was just gummed up from the car gas and prolonged inactivity. He said carburetor cleaner, Q-tips and a clean cloth should clean it up to working condition. I feel his advice is worth taking however, I do not have a manual for the carburetor as how to do the overhaul. Does anybody in this group have a manual or can scan the procedure to me? Or do you know of a place online where I could go and get this information? Here are the particulars: Stromberg NAS3A1 A18033B-4 I do not know if it has the Neoprene tip, steel or Delrin needle. If I have to fix or replace the carburetor, where is the best place to send it to for repair or to shop for a replacement carburetor. I live in Dallas but will drive anywhere within reason to get this carburetor fixed. Thanks guys for any insight or help you can provide. Mike King GN-1 Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Stromberg Carburetor
Date: Jun 07, 2004
Mike, What DJ said about auto gas is on the money. After a few monthes my gascolator gasket AND the gasket on the fuel cap, both started to distort. So I suspect you have the neoprene needle in your carb like I did/do. Get the parts and do it yourself. Only critical points are to document how far any needles are in(count in half turns to fully closed) And you have to shim the float needle seat to get a certain height of fuel in the bowl with a measured column of fuel on the intake. Not hard to do,,,just fasten a piece of clear tubibg to the wall and measure the height of gas in the bowl. If it's too low/high dump it all out, reshim, and try again. Reassemble, replace the zillion safety wires, and you're good to go. If you're not comfortable with it, get the parts and the manual and get a friend whose mechanically inclined. The manual is literally step by step. I did my own and nothing flew off yet : ) My biggest headache with the carb was to set the idle mixture screw. Once on an approach, went to give it fuel from idle, and it coughed, sputtered, and started puking black smoke. Finally got it right. So check what the screw is before taking it apart walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike King To: Pietenpol Discussion Group Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 4:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Hey Gang, I need to call upon your expertise regarding a carburetor that is not just leaking gas, but pouring out. The carburetor is on an Cont. A-80 engine attached to a GN-1. Here is the rest of the story. The plane was last flown two years ago and has been sitting idle in a hanger. (don't ask why it has not been flown.... .that is another story) It had a =BC tank of auto gas and the gas tank switched to the on-position. (another story) Last weekend, the mechanic came out to do an annual. The compression on all four cylinders was between 73-78 over 80. He then tried to start it. After ten tries, the engine fired up and then died. The fuel switch was in the Off position. He tried to start it again but it would not. He then drained all of the old gas and put in $10.00 of Avgas. Again he tried and tried to start it but could not. He pushed it back into the hanger and came out again the next morning. He found the carburetor leaked most of the gas but there was enough to try to start it again. After a few turns of the prop, gas just poured out of the carburetor. He feels the carburetor should be overhauled and bench tested. I went through my paperwork and found the original receipt of the carburetor and saw where the plane builder bought an overhauled and bench checked Stromberg carburetor in 1983 from El Reno Aviation of Oklahoma for $259.00 (includes postage and insurance) I called them this morning and found out they no longer do that kind of work and recommended nearby Martin Inductions Systems. I talked to a Gene Martin who said the car gas probably gummed up the inside works. He said an overhaul would run $350.00. A needle and seat another $200 and a float could run the bill up to $650.00. It would take about a week to ten days for turnaround. I called the previous owner of the plane and he said that being an Experimental, I could carefully take the carburetor apart and clean it. He felt 95% sure it was just gummed up from the car gas and prolonged inactivity. He said carburetor cleaner, Q-tips and a clean cloth should clean it up to working condition. I feel his advice is worth taking however, I do not have a manual for the carburetor as how to do the overhaul. Does anybody in this group have a manual or can scan the procedure to me? Or do you know of a place online where I could go and get this information? Here are the particulars: Stromberg NAS3A1 A18033B-4 I do not know if it has the Neoprene tip, steel or Delrin needle. If I have to fix or replace the carburetor, where is the best place to send it to for repair or to shop for a replacement carburetor. I live in Dallas but will drive anywhere within reason to get this carburetor fixed. Thanks guys for any insight or help you can provide. Mike King GN-1 Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike King" <mike(at)mking.us>
Subject: Stromberg Carburetor
Date: Jun 07, 2004
Walt, Great information. I really appreciate everyone=92s input. I will not again put auto gas in my engine. Now that my health is better, I will be flying my plane more often and will not go through this experience again. I do have a friend who is mechanically inclined. Now I need to get a manual and get started. I tried to find one online but will probably have to order one from a supply shop. Thanks again for all the useful information. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Mike, What DJ said about auto gas is on the money. After a few monthes my gascolator gasket AND the gasket on the fuel cap, both started to distort. So I suspect you have the neoprene needle in your carb like I did/do. Get the parts and do it yourself. Only critical points are to document how far any needles are in(count in half turns to fully closed) And you have to shim the float needle seat to get a certain height of fuel in the bowl with a measured column of fuel on the intake. Not hard to do,,,just fasten a piece of clear tubibg to the wall and measure the height of gas in the bowl. If it's too low/high dump it all out, reshim, and try again. Reassemble, replace the zillion safety wires, and you're good to go. If you're not comfortable with it, get the parts and the manual and get a friend whose mechanically inclined. The manual is literally step by step. I did my own and nothing flew off yet : ) My biggest headache with the carb was to set the idle mixture screw. Once on an approach, went to give it fuel from idle, and it coughed, sputtered, and started puking black smoke. Finally got it right. So check what the screw is before taking it apart walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike King <mailto:mike(at)mking.us> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Hey Gang, I need to call upon your expertise regarding a carburetor that is not just leaking gas, but pouring out. The carburetor is on an Cont. A-80 engine attached to a GN-1. Here is the rest of the story. The plane was last flown two years ago and has been sitting idle in a hanger. (don=92t ask why it has not been flown=85..=85 =85that is another story) It had a =BC tank of auto gas and the gas tank switched to the on-position. (another story) Last weekend, the mechanic came out to do an annual. The compression on all four cylinders was between 73-78 over 80. He then tried to start it. After ten tries, the engine fired up and then died. The fuel switch was in the Off position. He tried to start it again but it would not. He then drained all of the old gas and put in $10.00 of Avgas. Again he tried and tried to start it but could not. He pushed it back into the hanger and came out again the next morning. He found the carburetor leaked most of the gas but there was enough to try to start it again. After a few turns of the prop, gas just poured out of the carburetor. He feels the carburetor should be overhauled and bench tested. I went through my paperwork and found the original receipt of the carburetor and saw where the plane builder bought an overhauled and bench checked Stromberg carburetor in 1983 from El Reno Aviation of Oklahoma for $259.00 (includes postage and insurance) I called them this morning and found out they no longer do that kind of work and recommended nearby Martin Inductions Systems. I talked to a Gene Martin who said the car gas probably gummed up the inside works. He said an overhaul would run $350.00. A needle and seat another $200 and a float could run the bill up to $650.00. It would take about a week to ten days for turnaround. I called the previous owner of the plane and he said that being an Experimental, I could carefully take the carburetor apart and clean it. He felt 95% sure it was just gummed up from the car gas and prolonged inactivity. He said carburetor cleaner, Q-tips and a clean cloth should clean it up to working condition. I feel his advice is worth taking however, I do not have a manual for the carburetor as how to do the overhaul. Does anybody in this group have a manual or can scan the procedure to me? Or do you know of a place online where I could go and get this information? Here are the particulars: Stromberg NAS3A1 A18033B-4 I do not know if it has the Neoprene tip, steel or Delrin needle. If I have to fix or replace the carburetor, where is the best place to send it to for repair or to shop for a replacement carburetor. I live in Dallas but will drive anywhere within reason to get this carburetor fixed. Thanks guys for any insight or help you can provide. Mike King GN-1 Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 07, 2004
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Stromberg Carburetor
One thing to add to Walt's and DJ's excellent advice is to be sure to use shop air and blow out all orifices clear after soaking parts in Carb Cleaner. Lacquer thinner works well also, to break up that car gas varnish gum. Terry B ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Stromberg Carburetor
Date: Jun 07, 2004
Mike, Just keep one great tool in mind. The digital camera. Even the pictures are free, no film to buy. Just take a pic before every piece it taken off , if you want to. You can't go wrong. It all looks easy when it's all together, but look at a basket of parts, and it's a different ballgame! walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike King To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 6:16 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Walt, Great information. I really appreciate everyone's input. I will not again put auto gas in my engine. Now that my health is better, I will be flying my plane more often and will not go through this experience again. I do have a friend who is mechanically inclined. Now I need to get a manual and get started. I tried to find one online but will probably have to order one from a supply shop. Thanks again for all the useful information. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 5:02 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Mike, What DJ said about auto gas is on the money. After a few monthes my gascolator gasket AND the gasket on the fuel cap, both started to distort. So I suspect you have the neoprene needle in your carb like I did/do. Get the parts and do it yourself. Only critical points are to document how far any needles are in(count in half turns to fully closed) And you have to shim the float needle seat to get a certain height of fuel in the bowl with a measured column of fuel on the intake. Not hard to do,,,just fasten a piece of clear tubibg to the wall and measure the height of gas in the bowl. If it's too low/high dump it all out, reshim, and try again. Reassemble, replace the zillion safety wires, and you're good to go. If you're not comfortable with it, get the parts and the manual and get a friend whose mechanically inclined. The manual is literally step by step. I did my own and nothing flew off yet : ) My biggest headache with the carb was to set the idle mixture screw. Once on an approach, went to give it fuel from idle, and it coughed, sputtered, and started puking black smoke. Finally got it right. So check what the screw is before taking it apart walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike King To: Pietenpol Discussion Group Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 4:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Hey Gang, I need to call upon your expertise regarding a carburetor that is not just leaking gas, but pouring out. The carburetor is on an Cont. A-80 engine attached to a GN-1. Here is the rest of the story. The plane was last flown two years ago and has been sitting idle in a hanger. (don't ask why it has not been flown.... .that is another story) It had a =BC tank of auto gas and the gas tank switched to the on-position. (another story) Last weekend, the mechanic came out to do an annual. The compression on all four cylinders was between 73-78 over 80. He then tried to start it. After ten tries, the engine fired up and then died. The fuel switch was in the Off position. He tried to start it again but it would not. He then drained all of the old gas and put in $10.00 of Avgas. Again he tried and tried to start it but could not. He pushed it back into the hanger and came out again the next morning. He found the carburetor leaked most of the gas but there was enough to try to start it again. After a few turns of the prop, gas just poured out of the carburetor. He feels the carburetor should be overhauled and bench tested. I went through my paperwork and found the original receipt of the carburetor and saw where the plane builder bought an overhauled and bench checked Stromberg carburetor in 1983 from El Reno Aviation of Oklahoma for $259.00 (includes postage and insurance) I called them this morning and found out they no longer do that kind of work and recommended nearby Martin Inductions Systems. I talked to a Gene Martin who said the car gas probably gummed up the inside works. He said an overhaul would run $350.00. A needle and seat another $200 and a float could run the bill up to $650.00. It would take about a week to ten days for turnaround. I called the previous owner of the plane and he said that being an Experimental, I could carefully take the carburetor apart and clean it. He felt 95% sure it was just gummed up from the car gas and prolonged inactivity. He said carburetor cleaner, Q-tips and a clean cloth should clean it up to working condition. I feel his advice is worth taking however, I do not have a manual for the carburetor as how to do the overhaul. Does anybody in this group have a manual or can scan the procedure to me? Or do you know of a place online where I could go and get this information? Here are the particulars: Stromberg NAS3A1 A18033B-4 I do not know if it has the Neoprene tip, steel or Delrin needle. If I have to fix or replace the carburetor, where is the best place to send it to for repair or to shop for a replacement carburetor. I live in Dallas but will drive anywhere within reason to get this carburetor fixed. Thanks guys for any insight or help you can provide. Mike King GN-1 Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Lift strut question
Date: Jun 07, 2004
I can't remember this question being asked. Probably because it is so obvious, but I can't see it. If you have to move the wing to balance the center of gravity doesn't that throw off the alignment of the upper bolt holes where the lift strut attaches to the wing? How do you handle this? Make the holes big enough to allow for the movement? Hold off on drilling or welding until you know where the wing will be placed? Help. Thanks, Ted Brousseau Glad to be moving along enough to ask this question. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Ash engine support
Date: Jun 08, 2004
I put mine in anyway. There is a lot of weight hanging off the front. Any help in my view is good. Cheers Peter. Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of At7000ft(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ash engine support Yes I have the Corvair mount plans, but I still need to use some kind of cross member in place of that firewall ash brace don't I? >I am building a long fuselage Piet with a Corvair and have a >question about the the 1 1/4" x 1 1/2" horizontal ash engine support >which attaches to the front fuselage vertical braces and firewall. >Can see the need for it when installing a Ford engine but seems a >bit hefty for a Corvair installation. Has anyone used a lighter >piece for this like 1" x 3/4" spruce? > >Thanks > >Rick H Rick, You don't use the ash at all for the Corvair. The Corvair uses a completely different engine mount. If you don't have the plans, they are available from the Pietenpols, or you can use the version described in William Wynne's conversion manual. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 08, 2004
Subject: Re: Lift strut question
In a message dated 6/7/04 9:23:36 PM Central Daylight Time, nfn00979(at)naples.net writes: << If you have to move the wing to balance the center of gravity doesn't that throw off the alignment of the upper bolt holes where the lift strut attaches to the wing? How do you handle this? Make the holes big enough to allow for the movement? Hold off on drilling or welding until you know where the wing will be placed? >> Ted, This is one of the many genius designs of Bernard Harold Pietenpol. I don't know of any other aircraft, that has the plans type fittings on both ends of the struts designed to allow movement of the wing. Ya just loosen all the hardware on the struts and cabanes, and move the wing to the new location, and tighten them back up, and use paint or torque seal on all the hardware. Do Not oversize any holes. All drilled holes should be a good fit for the bolt. If the wing has to be moved very far, new cables will have to be made up for the lift struts, and the cables on the right side of the front cockpit. Note: I've never heard of the wing needed to be moved forward, it's always moved aft, to compensate for the notourious tail heavy condition of Pietenpols. This is because B.H.P. was only about 160 lbs, and today's flyers average around 200 lbs. This sets up the tail heavy condition. Moving the engine forward a couple of inches from plans location, will help...especially if you're the type that doesn't miss any meals !! :) Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WPTCorp(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 08, 2004
Subject: cables
Would someone please help me on cable tensions, I need to know for control and also rigging. Thanks Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Lift strut question
Ted-- The upper ends of the struts are open so they allow that 'strap' fitting that slips in between the wing tab fittings to pivot a bit as you move your wing back some. I moved my wing back 4" from the tops of the cabane struts being vertical and the amount of change in that strap fitting (angle-wise) is very small but it has room to move in that open-ended strut end. This only applies if you use the plans design and not some of the other designs I've seen out there where guys use two bolts in the wing strut to hold that fitting in place. If you do that then the fitting can't rotate or pivot in the innards of the end of the lift strut opening. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Stromberg Carburetor
Date: Jun 08, 2004
Hi Mike, One other tip, when you are overhauling your carburetor. I bought the Stromberg overhaul kit from Fresno Airparts (inside front cover of Trade-a-Plane) with the stainless steel needle valve. I assembled the carb and then tested it and found that it leaked around the needle valve slightly (not as bad as my J-3 Cub did years ago when I ran car gas in it). In order to stop the leak, the needle valve and seat need to be "lapped" to get a good seal. I found the easiest way to do this was to chuck the needle in my drill press with it set to its slowest speed and then I applied regular Crest toothpaste to the valve seat and pressed it up against the spinning needle. Crest toothpaste is a very mild abrasive and makes a decent lapping compound. Once I did this and reassembled the carb (after cleaning everything thoroughly, it was totally leak free and worked like a champ. Mind you, I have not yet flown this engine, so there might be other unforeseen problems. Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC Spraying color coats now on NX899JP > From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> > Date: 2004/06/07 Mon PM 06:02:00 EDT > To: > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor > > Mike, > What DJ said about auto gas is on the money. After a few monthes my gascolator gasket AND the gasket on the fuel cap, both started to distort. So I suspect you have the neoprene needle in your carb like I did/do. > Get the parts and do it yourself. Only critical points are to document how far any needles are in(count in half turns to fully closed) And you have to shim the float needle seat to get a certain height of fuel in the bowl with a measured column of fuel on the intake. Not hard to do,,,just fasten a piece of clear tubibg to the wall and measure the height of gas in the bowl. If it's too low/high dump it all out, reshim, and try again. Reassemble, replace the zillion safety wires, and you're good to go. > If you're not comfortable with it, get the parts and the manual and get a friend whose mechanically inclined. The manual is literally step by step. > I did my own and nothing flew off yet : ) > My biggest headache with the carb was to set the idle mixture screw. Once on an approach, went to give it fuel from idle, and it coughed, sputtered, and started puking black smoke. Finally got it right. > So check what the screw is before taking it apart > walt evans > NX140DL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike King > To: Pietenpol Discussion Group > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 4:34 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor > > > Hey Gang, > > > > I need to call upon your expertise regarding a carburetor that is not just > > leaking gas, but pouring out. The carburetor is on an Cont. A-80 engine > > attached to a GN-1. > > > > Here is the rest of the story. The plane was last flown two years ago and > > has been sitting idle in a hanger. (don't ask why it has not been flown.... > > .that is another story) It had a tank of auto gas and the gas tank > > switched to the on-position. (another story) > > > > Last weekend, the mechanic came out to do an annual. The compression > > on all four cylinders was between 73-78 over 80. He then tried to start it. > > After ten tries, the engine fired up and then died. The fuel switch was in the > > Off position. He tried to start it again but it would not. He then drained all > > of the old gas and put in $10.00 of Avgas. Again he tried and tried to start > > it but could not. He pushed it back into the hanger and came out again > > the next morning. He found the carburetor leaked most of the gas but there > > was enough to try to start it again. After a few turns of the prop, gas just > > poured out of the carburetor. He feels the carburetor should be overhauled > > and bench tested. > > > > I went through my paperwork and found the original receipt of the carburetor > > and saw where the plane builder bought an overhauled and bench checked > > Stromberg carburetor in 1983 from El Reno Aviation of Oklahoma for $259.00 > > (includes postage and insurance) > > > > I called them this morning and found out they no longer do that kind of work > > and recommended nearby Martin Inductions Systems. I talked to a Gene > > Martin who said the car gas probably gummed up the inside works. > > > > He said an overhaul would run $350.00. A needle and seat another > > $200 and a float could run the bill up to $650.00. It would take about a > > week to ten days for turnaround. > > > > I called the previous owner of the plane and he said that being an > > Experimental, I could carefully take the carburetor apart and clean > > it. He felt 95% sure it was just gummed up from the car gas and prolonged > > inactivity. He said carburetor cleaner, Q-tips and a clean cloth should > > clean it up to working condition. > > > > I feel his advice is worth taking however, I do not have a manual for the > > carburetor as how to do the overhaul. Does anybody in this group have a > > manual or can scan the procedure to me? Or do you know of a place online > > where I could go and get this information? > > > > Here are the particulars: > > Stromberg NAS3A1 A18033B-4 > > I do not know if it has the Neoprene tip, steel or Delrin needle. > > > > If I have to fix or replace the carburetor, where is the best place to send it to > > for repair or to shop for a replacement carburetor. > > > > I live in Dallas but will drive anywhere within reason to get this carburetor fixed. > > > > Thanks guys for any insight or help you can provide. > > > > > > > > Mike King > > GN-1 > > Dallas > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: cables
Date: Jun 08, 2004
my controls are somewhere near 20lb. (one cable goes slack at extremes anyway) my cabane X bracing is about 60lb. my plans don't show the tensions but I based mine on what I have seen on other aircraft. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: WPTCorp(at)aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: cables Would someone please help me on cable tensions, I need to know for control and also rigging. Thanks Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2004
From: Jimmy Courtney <jbciii5656(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Aircampers in central Mississippi?
Hello! I bought a set of plans from Don Pietenpol about 6 months ago and I'm looking for any builders in central Mississippi to visit with. I'll be finshed with the shop and starting construction next month. I know of one fellow who is building the "steel-tubing fuselage" version (he flys his fine old Baby Ace to every flyin that he can reach). I will be building the wood version of the Air Camper. Anyone is welcome to contact me at jbciii5656(at)yahoo.com or 601-540-6505. Thanks and good air to all! Jim Courtney --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol Owners Directory------ Mississippi?
Jim-- Doc Mosher sells a complete registered Piet/GN-1 listing that he has compiled for us and offers it for $5. Ask him for the Pietenpol Owner Directory. Doc Mosher, 1071 Meadow Lane, Neenah, WI 54956 (920) 727-1534. docshop(at)tds.net He's into the 5th or 6th printing already I believe. A great guy and great Piet supporter Doc is. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Stromberg carb problems
Date: Jun 08, 2004
Mike King, Please contact me at alexms1(at)bellsouth.net. I have some thoughts to share on your carb problems. Alex Sloan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: cables
Date: Jun 08, 2004
For the rigging, they need to have roughly even pressure. The easiest way to find that is to pluk them like a guitar string. If they fwang they are too loose, if they ping they are too tight. Try for a twang on all, then sight down the spars for final adjustments. This works basically for the tail too. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: WPTCorp(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 7:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cables Would someone please help me on cable tensions, I need to know for control and also rigging. Thanks Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 08, 2004
Subject: Re: cables
In a message dated 6/8/04 10:25:24 PM Central Daylight Time, horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes: << For the rigging, they need to have roughly even pressure. The easiest way to find that is to pluk them like a guitar string. If they fwang they are too loose, if they ping they are too tight. Try for a twang on all, then sight down the spars for final adjustments. This works basically for the tail too. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: WPTCorp(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 7:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cables Would someone please help me on cable tensions, I need to know for control and also rigging. Thanks Dave >> Dave, The fwang, ping, and twang method works great for the rigging cables, but the control cables should NOT have any tension on them. Take the slack out, and that's it...no tension. For the four control cables from the bell crank, to the flippers, the extreeme limits of the surfaces is the position where they will have to be rigged. This is the position where the cables are the tightest. If you take the slack out of the cables with the flippers in neutral, they will be WAY too tight when the they move to the stops. This is one of the little quarks about the Pietenpol. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 2004
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Ohio Corvair College
Hi Everyone, We are in the final stages of preparing for the Corvair College, June 18-20, in Alliance, OH. I recently sent information to people who had contacted me, but some of the e-mail addresses were bad. So, would the following 'listers' please contact me off-list so I can send you this information. Gary Bell - Delaware Ohio Derek Hulbig - Toronto Norm Decou - Windsor, Ontario Thanks very much! Kip Gardner, EAA Chapter 82, Alliance, OH -- North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Stromberg carb problems
Date: Jun 09, 2004
Mike King in Dallas: If you want to consult with someone on the phone, or get your carb in the shop to have an A&P do the work, try Deanie Montgomery in Corsicana, TX. His outfit is called Anxiety Air and the phone number is (903) 874-3714. He did a complete overhaul on my NAS3 core, including conversion to the new Delrin-tipped needle. At the very least, he can talk to you over the phone about your problem and it won't cost you anything. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question
Group-- Nearby friends tried to ferry an 85 hp. Continental powered Pietenpol Air Camper home from North Carolina recently and found that the oil pressure is good on run-up but slowly deteriorates in flight with a corresponding increase in oil temperature. The oil was changed out to insure that it was the proper type and grade and the flight was resumed with the same symptoms. They landed and will be transporting the aircraft by trailer and then will look into the problem more closely at home. I know that generally when the oil is cold and thick that oil pressures are higher on start-up and taxi than they are in flight. Also you can shim the oil pressure relief spring/valve to give you varying degrees of oil pressure, and finally there could be air in the oil pressure-to-instrument capillary line in addition to possible instrument calibration error. My initial gut feeling is that the oil pump gears might have to be replaced in the accessory case on the back of the engine. What are your thoughts ? These folks have some competent mechanics who are going to look at the problem once the plane is back home, but until then I thought I'd throw this out to the group for some grist. thanks ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Borodent(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 2004
Subject: Re: Lift strut question
My question to the group is: If you use the hard ( cabane strut type - or - rod and fittings ) from the top engine mounts back to the top of the front cabane struts, doesnt this give the needed rigidity so that you can do away with the right hand side X cables? Henry Williams ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Lift strut question
Date: Jun 09, 2004
Henry, Yes. Some guys do the X cables till they get the wing position, CG where they want it, than change to the hard cabane type after they know how long to make them. Skip > > > My question to the group is: > If you use the hard ( cabane strut type - or - rod and fittings ) from the > top engine mounts back to the top of the front cabane struts, doesnt this give > the needed rigidity so that you can do away with the right hand side X cables? > Henry Williams ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TomTravis(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 2004
Subject: Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question
Mike, I had a similar problem with my Bonanza last year. The oil temp started running high. I did everything I could think of and decided to fly it a few miles south to the best shop around Dallas. The engine began to run rough on descent and failed on landing. A wrist pin had worked it's way up against a cylinder wall and made so much metal that it clogged the oil fliter. The engine was junk. The engine had 364 hours since one of those high-dollar blueprinted overhauls by Ultimate Engines of Mena, Arkansas. The good news was I had a "520 hour unlimited warrranty". The bad news was new owners had bought the assets but not the liabilities of the old owners of Ultimate and refused to even discuss a warranty claim. I had to pay for another overhaul but you can bet it wasn't from Ultimate Engines. Tom Travis ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: diagonal cabane struts
Henry--- you got it right. You don't need the X-cables on the right side of the front cockpit if you use rigid steel (tubular or streamlined) diagonals between the upper longeron/motor mount fittings and the tops of the front cabanes. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 2004
Subject: Alternate Woods-Update
The wings have really been a pleasure to work on, even if there is a multitude of parts. I built the tailfeathers first, then the fuse, then the Center Section, finally the wings. Maybe if I built another Piet, I would do the wings at the beginning. We have a 35 Piet on the airport, which is non-flyable, but interesting. It has a two-piece wing, which I am beginning to think is superior to the Vi Kapler design, since the aileron control cables can be run directly to each wing. Im still a little bit perplexed about how one connects the control cables through the Center Section in such a way that they can be easily re-connected. Im amazed at the difference the drag and anti-drag wires make to the rigidity of the wing. I put in some temporary hardware store wires to stiffen the wing while finishing it. The fellow next to me is building a scaled Jenny, and has installed 3/32 cables for the drag and anti-drag braces. He uses Cable Bushings rather than turnbuckles, twisting the cable to achieve the correct tension, after pulling the cable tightly around the Bushing. It is easy to adjust the tension, each half twist tightening the cable by about ten pounds. His spec. calls for 35# tension, a figure I think that I will use. I made a set of turnbuckles early on, so cost is not a factor, rather the weight saving and simpler hardware seems to me to be worthwhile. I bought the folded trailing edge at AS&S. Planning to clean the aluminum carefully, then to Epoxy the T.E. to the ends of the ribs with T-88. Looking forward to meeting again andtalking with all of you at Brodhead this year. Carl L @ Compton Airport. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question
Date: Jun 09, 2004
Mike, You never should have the need to shim the relief valve so forget about that. That is not a cure. The problem you indicate is one of excessive clearances within the engine. The excess clearance allows oil in when, let's say a conrod is going down the barrel and then it compresses the oil in the same space as the rod is going up the barrel. This compresses the oil and compression heats. That is why the oil heats up. As the oil heats up, the viscosity drops, which causes more friction elsewhere which causes the oil to thin out even more, etc. My first guess is that there is an imminent conrod failure due to a bearing that is failing. Excessive clearance due to a bearing failure also allows an internal oil leak of great magnitude which reults in zero oil pressure. Zero oil pressure cuases other bearings to fail. Remember, this is the symptom. The real question now is why the rod bearing or whatever is failing? I have said it once or more times before or more on this list that another point of failure in these engine is the from cam journal where oil passes from the left oil gallery across an annulus in the front cam journal to the right oil gallery. It is common that there is excessive wear here due to too little bearing surface area for the loads imposed. The oil leaks out of the oil system at his point excessively, causing low or no oil pressure and excessive compression causes heating of the oil as the valve springs force the cam to and fro. Unfortunately for us, the case aluminum is the bearing material for the cam and the excessive wear at this journal mandates expensive solutions. One is to line bore the case for oversize cam journals and then buy a replacement cam with OS journals. Big $$. Another fix for an experimental is to have a known good cam's journals plated oversize with hard chrome and then ground for trueness to an OS to match the case which has been linebored to cleanup the mess at the front journal. Another fix is another case but, how do you know the other case is good? It might have the same problem. It is very difficult to measure the fron cam journal because it is virtually inaccessible when the case halves are together which is the condition required for measurement. Let me know what you find. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question > > Group-- Nearby friends tried to ferry an 85 hp. Continental powered > Pietenpol Air Camper home from North Carolina recently and found that the > oil pressure is good on run-up but slowly deteriorates in flight with a > corresponding increase in oil temperature. The oil was changed out to > insure that it was the proper type and grade and the flight was resumed > with the same symptoms. They landed and will be transporting the aircraft > by trailer and then will look into the problem more closely at home. > > I know that generally when the oil is cold and thick that oil pressures are > higher on start-up and taxi than they are in flight. Also you can shim the > oil pressure relief spring/valve to give you varying degrees of oil > pressure, and finally there could be air in the oil pressure-to-instrument > capillary line in addition to possible instrument calibration error. > > My initial gut feeling is that the oil pump gears might have to be replaced > in the accessory case on the back of the engine. What are your thoughts > ? These folks have some competent mechanics who are going to look at the > problem once the plane is back home, but until then I thought I'd throw > this out to the group for some grist. > > thanks ! > > Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 10, 2004
Subject: Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question
In a message dated 6/9/04 9:05:52 PM Central Daylight Time, sbobka(at)charter.net writes: << It is very difficult to measure the fron cam journal because it is virtually inaccessible when the case halves are together which is the condition required for measurement. >> Chris, Your assessment is right on. When I assembled my engine, I did a clean and dry fit of the cam and crank (with new main bearings), using plasti-gage across the journals, assembled and torqued all hardware, being very careful not to allow the crank or cam to turn, or it will smear the plasti-gage. Then disassemble, and recorded all the measurements. I was relieved to find that all clearances were within spec. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 2004
From: Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net>
Subject: 2004 recipient of the Tony Bingelis Award
Well, one of our own guys did it! Alex Sloan, who is a sometime participant in our little Piet Chat Group, has been announced as the 2004 recipient of EAA's Tony Bingelis Award. You can read all about it in the next few weeks in EAA's various publications, but the gist of the news is that Alex is the man. Alex lives in Florence, Alabama, and as participants in our little chat group know, he is building a Piet with a Corvair engine. To quote Tom Poberezny, "Alex Sloan truly embodies the values of EAA and the legacy established by Tony Bingelis. He epitomizes volunteerism within the organization and is consistently willing to share his knowledge and resources to promote better airplanes, more prepared pilots, and safer flight. He is an outstanding and most deserving recipient of the Bingelis Award." I can go on and embarrass Alex by citing the fact that he became a Tech Counselor in 1985, a Flight Advisor in 1994, and in 2000 he was named the first Chairman of the EAA Homebuilt Aircraft Council. He has received the EAA President's Award and EAA's Major Achievement Award in 2001. He has constructed two RV-model aircraft, and - talk about getting into building a real homebuilt airplane - is currently building a Pietenpol. Alex conducts a number of forums at Oshkosh and Lakeland, so a lot of you guys have met him. He will receive his proper recognition at AirVenture at the annual Homebuilder Dinner on July 29. This dinner is usually held at EAA's Nature Center pavilion. We all kind of have a personal pride in being a part of the bib overall Piet group - tailwheels, open cockpits, 75 year old design, etc. like we are the po' boys. But we are so fortunate to have some really outstanding individuals (no names here, please, but you know who you are) in our purposely down home group. Alex is one of the nice guys. Doc Mosher Oshkosh USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CraigAlanCarter(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 10, 2004
Subject: pulleys
I have finished a beautiful control tube but unfortunately spaced the pulley tabs for phenolic pulleys that will only take 3/32" cable. Looks like I will be doing this part over again like I have done with almost every other part. In ordering new pulleys, I see that there are UHMW plastic pulleys available and wanted to know if these 2" pulleys would be acceptable for the control tube. Searched the archives and couldn't find much discussion specific to this type of pulley. Thanks, Craig Carter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: pulleys
Date: Jun 10, 2004
Craig, I did the same thing. I got Mr. Dremmel to give me a hand. In two minutes the wrong tabs were off, and I was making new ones. I love my Dremmel tool walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: CraigAlanCarter(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: pulleys I have finished a beautiful control tube but unfortunately spaced the pulley tabs for phenolic pulleys that will only take 3/32" cable. Looks like I will be doing this part over again like I have done with almost every other part. In ordering new pulleys, I see that there are UHMW plastic pulleys available and wanted to know if these 2" pulleys would be acceptable for the control tube. Searched the archives and couldn't find much discussion specific to this type of pulley. Thanks, Craig Carter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike King" <mike(at)mking.us>
Subject: Stromberg Carburetor
Date: Jun 10, 2004
Hey Guys, Just want to let you know your input and advice were greatly appreciated in resolving my malfunctioning Stromberg carburetor. A special thanks to Alex Sloan, Delton Perry, Oscar Zuniga, Jack Phillips, Walt Evans and other knowledgeable Piet and GN-1 enthusiasts for your insight. I just ordered a Stromberg carburetor overhaul kit from Fresno Airparts along with a manual to keep me honest and out of trouble. The old girl should be back in the air in just a few days=85..thanks again to many of you. Have a good day. Mike King GN-1 77MK Dallas P.S. My 1940 Continental A-80 engine will not see auto gas again. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike King Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Walt, Great information. I really appreciate everyone=92s input. I will not again put auto gas in my engine. Now that my health is better, I will be flying my plane more often and will not go through this experience again. I do have a friend who is mechanically inclined. Now I need to get a manual and get started. I tried to find one online but will probably have to order one from a supply shop. Thanks again for all the useful information. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Mike, What DJ said about auto gas is on the money. After a few monthes my gascolator gasket AND the gasket on the fuel cap, both started to distort. So I suspect you have the neoprene needle in your carb like I did/do. Get the parts and do it yourself. Only critical points are to document how far any needles are in(count in half turns to fully closed) And you have to shim the float needle seat to get a certain height of fuel in the bowl with a measured column of fuel on the intake. Not hard to do,,,just fasten a piece of clear tubibg to the wall and measure the height of gas in the bowl. If it's too low/high dump it all out, reshim, and try again. Reassemble, replace the zillion safety wires, and you're good to go. If you're not comfortable with it, get the parts and the manual and get a friend whose mechanically inclined. The manual is literally step by step. I did my own and nothing flew off yet : ) My biggest headache with the carb was to set the idle mixture screw. Once on an approach, went to give it fuel from idle, and it coughed, sputtered, and started puking black smoke. Finally got it right. So check what the screw is before taking it apart walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike <mailto:mike(at)mking.us> King Group Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Hey Gang, I need to call upon your expertise regarding a carburetor that is not just leaking gas, but pouring out. The carburetor is on an Cont. A-80 engine attached to a GN-1. Here is the rest of the story. The plane was last flown two years ago and has been sitting idle in a hanger. (don=92t ask why it has not been flown=85..=85 =85that is another story) It had a =BC tank of auto gas and the gas tank switched to the on-position. (another story) Last weekend, the mechanic came out to do an annual. The compression on all four cylinders was between 73-78 over 80. He then tried to start it. After ten tries, the engine fired up and then died. The fuel switch was in the Off position. He tried to start it again but it would not. He then drained all of the old gas and put in $10.00 of Avgas. Again he tried and tried to start it but could not. He pushed it back into the hanger and came out again the next morning. He found the carburetor leaked most of the gas but there was enough to try to start it again. After a few turns of the prop, gas just poured out of the carburetor. He feels the carburetor should be overhauled and bench tested. I went through my paperwork and found the original receipt of the carburetor and saw where the plane builder bought an overhauled and bench checked Stromberg carburetor in 1983 from El Reno Aviation of Oklahoma for $259.00 (includes postage and insurance) I called them this morning and found out they no longer do that kind of work and recommended nearby Martin Inductions Systems. I talked to a Gene Martin who said the car gas probably gummed up the inside works. He said an overhaul would run $350.00. A needle and seat another $200 and a float could run the bill up to $650.00. It would take about a week to ten days for turnaround. I called the previous owner of the plane and he said that being an Experimental, I could carefully take the carburetor apart and clean it. He felt 95% sure it was just gummed up from the car gas and prolonged inactivity. He said carburetor cleaner, Q-tips and a clean cloth should clean it up to working condition. I feel his advice is worth taking however, I do not have a manual for the carburetor as how to do the overhaul. Does anybody in this group have a manual or can scan the procedure to me? Or do you know of a place online where I could go and get this information? Here are the particulars: Stromberg NAS3A1 A18033B-4 I do not know if it has the Neoprene tip, steel or Delrin needle. If I have to fix or replace the carburetor, where is the best place to send it to for repair or to shop for a replacement carburetor. I live in Dallas but will drive anywhere within reason to get this carburetor fixed. Thanks guys for any insight or help you can provide. Mike King GN-1 Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cory Emberson" <bootless(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol?
Date: Jun 10, 2004
Hello! I'm writing an article for Kitplanes magazine about financing for homebuilts. Has anyone had any experience in financing your Pietenpol (or other plane that you've built), and would you care to share that experience? Also, if you've had the experience of financing an already-completed homebuilt, I would love to hear from you as well. By the way, Greg Cardinal's beautiful Air Camper kit is featured in the July issue of Kitplanes (Exteriors and Interiors - page 41-42) - there's a gorgeous picture of the panel that he and Dale Johnson have handcrafted. Thanks so much! If you care to contact me off-list, my email address is cory(at)lightspeededit.com. My "list" email address is bootless(at)earthlink.net. Best, Cory Emberson KHWD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question
Date: Jun 10, 2004
Sounds like the problems I had with my Cessna 140. One of the few things I don't like about the small Continentals is that the camshaft bearings are just bored in the aluminum crankcase. When they wear, oil will spray out of those bearings rather than running at high pressure in the oil galleries. My guess is that this is a fairly high time engine, or it sat for a long time and managed to build up some rust pits on the camshaft. Wish I had an answer, short of an overhaul. My answer was to sell the 140 (on a cold day). I agree Mike, I'd try the oil pump gears first, because they are relatively cheap and easy to replace. My bet is that they will have to split the case. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question Group-- Nearby friends tried to ferry an 85 hp. Continental powered Pietenpol Air Camper home from North Carolina recently and found that the oil pressure is good on run-up but slowly deteriorates in flight with a corresponding increase in oil temperature. The oil was changed out to insure that it was the proper type and grade and the flight was resumed with the same symptoms. They landed and will be transporting the aircraft by trailer and then will look into the problem more closely at home. I know that generally when the oil is cold and thick that oil pressures are higher on start-up and taxi than they are in flight. Also you can shim the oil pressure relief spring/valve to give you varying degrees of oil pressure, and finally there could be air in the oil pressure-to-instrument capillary line in addition to possible instrument calibration error. My initial gut feeling is that the oil pump gears might have to be replaced in the accessory case on the back of the engine. What are your thoughts ? These folks have some competent mechanics who are going to look at the problem once the plane is back home, but until then I thought I'd throw this out to the group for some grist. thanks ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol?
Date: Jun 10, 2004
Cory If your building a Pietenpol, or similar, a lot of the parts and materials can be purchased with a credit card and paid off at the end of the month or run a balance and pay your interest rate. This is convenient because when you are building a plane, you usually only need a few parts at a time - don't need the whole thing. and can be a very easy way to spread out purchases of a few hundred to thousands over several months. If you want to BUY one, I guess you could do so at a pretty good interest rate. 4 to 8 % maybe. Most credit card companies send those annoying checks about 5 times a month hoping you'll write one. I GUESS you could do THAT.... Pretty good interest rates, I think. I don't have any experience financing kits - I built mine over a period of several years and paid as I went. BC http://bconoly.tripod.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Cory Emberson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 7:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? Hello! I'm writing an article for Kitplanes magazine about financing for homebuilts. Has anyone had any experience in financing your Pietenpol (or other plane that you've built), and would you care to share that experience? Also, if you've had the experience of financing an already-completed homebuilt, I would love to hear from you as well. By the way, Greg Cardinal's beautiful Air Camper kit is featured in the July issue of Kitplanes (Exteriors and Interiors - page 41-42) - there's a gorgeous picture of the panel that he and Dale Johnson have handcrafted. Thanks so much! If you care to contact me off-list, my email address is cory(at)lightspeededit.com. My "list" email address is bootless(at)earthlink.net. Best, Cory Emberson KHWD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question
Date: Jun 10, 2004
Jack. I think you're right, it sounds like a tired engine - not dead - just tuckerd out. I don't know... By the time you take the mags off, accessory case off, and all, you could put another days work into it and have the whole thing taken apart to inspect. If it were mine, I'd devote a weekend to pull it down and a couple weeks to inspect those cam bearing surfaces, jugs, as well as followers and lifters. I bought one of those run-out Continentals you find on the internet, and found a serious problem that would have shown up at a most inconvenient time. I took the extra time and fixed it all. I'm glad I did. It cost me another few weeks (I'm slow) and about another K-bill to have an IA lap all the valves , replace a few valves, and hone the cylinders and check em all out. But I did all the disassembly and re-assembly. The problem as we all know, is when you buy an experimental, you really don't know for sure what you're getting. Just my two cents.. Bert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question > > Sounds like the problems I had with my Cessna 140. One of the few things I > don't like about the small Continentals is that the camshaft bearings are > just bored in the aluminum crankcase. When they wear, oil will spray out of > those bearings rather than running at high pressure in the oil galleries. > My guess is that this is a fairly high time engine, or it sat for a long > time and managed to build up some rust pits on the camshaft. Wish I had an > answer, short of an overhaul. My answer was to sell the 140 (on a cold > day). > > I agree Mike, I'd try the oil pump gears first, because they are relatively > cheap and easy to replace. My bet is that they will have to split the case. > > Jack > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D > Cuy > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 9:18 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question > > > > Group-- Nearby friends tried to ferry an 85 hp. Continental powered > Pietenpol Air Camper home from North Carolina recently and found that the > oil pressure is good on run-up but slowly deteriorates in flight with a > corresponding increase in oil temperature. The oil was changed out to > insure that it was the proper type and grade and the flight was resumed > with the same symptoms. They landed and will be transporting the aircraft > by trailer and then will look into the problem more closely at home. > > I know that generally when the oil is cold and thick that oil pressures are > higher on start-up and taxi than they are in flight. Also you can shim the > oil pressure relief spring/valve to give you varying degrees of oil > pressure, and finally there could be air in the oil pressure-to-instrument > capillary line in addition to possible instrument calibration error. > > My initial gut feeling is that the oil pump gears might have to be replaced > in the accessory case on the back of the engine. What are your thoughts > ? These folks have some competent mechanics who are going to look at the > problem once the plane is back home, but until then I thought I'd throw > this out to the group for some grist. > > thanks ! > > Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2004
Subject: Aghh, so close...
Hello. I am new in list and have a lot of questions (I am from Argentina, so, sorry about my english). I just bought Hemlock to start building (that is what we use among others) but it is just 141" long. If I plan to do 3/4" solids spars (one piece wing) with a 1:12 slope, can I just add a plywood on each side of the spar end (filled with hemlock) to extend it to the needed lenght (3" or 4") and attach the wing tip to it? I know it is a compression member, could that be a problem? Should I laminate my spars? What you, experienced people recommend me? thank you very much. Santiago Hi Mike C. I am still enjoying your video!! --------------------------------- Cmo uss el correo electrnico? Qu penss del spam y de los virus? Clic aqu ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cory Emberson" <bootless(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol?
Date: Jun 10, 2004
Thanks, Bert. You bring up a very good point ... as the complexity of the project is reduced, the more down-to-earth your financing options are. best, Cory Cory If your building a Pietenpol, or similar, a lot of the parts and materials can be purchased with a credit card and paid off at the end of the month or run a balance and pay your interest rate. This is convenient because when you are building a plane, you usually only need a few parts at a time - don't need the whole thing. and can be a very easy way to spread out purchases of a few hundred to thousands over several months. If you want to BUY one, I guess you could do so at a pretty good interest rate. 4 to 8 % maybe. Most credit card companies send those annoying checks about 5 times a month hoping you'll write one. I GUESS you could do THAT.... Pretty good interest rates, I think. I don't have any experience financing kits - I built mine over a period of several years and paid as I went. BC http://bconoly.tripod.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Aghh, so close...
Date: Jun 10, 2004
Santiago, You might be better off just trimming a few inches off of the span. I am sure that Bernard chose the span as a matter of convenience rather than necessity. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 7:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aghh, so close... Hello. I am new in list and have a lot of questions (I am from Argentina, so, sorry about my english). I just bought Hemlock to start building (that is what we use among others) but it is just 14=B41" long. If I plan to do 3/4" solids spars (one piece wing) with a 1:12 slope, can I just add a plywood on each side of the spar end (filled with hemlock) to extend it to the needed lenght (3" or 4") and attach the wing tip to it? I know it is a compression member, could that be a problem? Should I laminate my spars? What you, experienced people recommend me? thank you very much. Santiago Hi Mike C. I am still enjoying your video!! =BFC=F3mo us=E1s el correo electr=F3nico? =BFQu=E9 pens=E1s del spam y de los virus? Clic aqu=ED ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Stromberg Carburetor
Date: Jun 10, 2004
Mike, Many carburetor leak becuase a particular service bulletin has not been complied with, causing the fuel to siphon out of the bowl through one of the jets. You may want to look this one up with precision airmotive as I don't have it offhand. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike King To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 3:10 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Hey Guys, Just want to let you know your input and advice were greatly appreciated in resolving my malfunctioning Stromberg carburetor. A special thanks to Alex Sloan, Delton Perry, Oscar Zuniga, Jack Phillips, Walt Evans and other knowledgeable Piet and GN-1 enthusiasts for your insight. I just ordered a Stromberg carburetor overhaul kit from Fresno Airparts along with a manual to keep me honest and out of trouble. The old girl should be back in the air in just a few days...thanks again to many of you. Have a good day. Mike King GN-1 77MK Dallas P.S. My 1940 Continental A-80 engine will not see auto gas again. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike King Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 5:16 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Walt, Great information. I really appreciate everyone's input. I will not again put auto gas in my engine. Now that my health is better, I will be flying my plane more often and will not go through this experience again. I do have a friend who is mechanically inclined. Now I need to get a manual and get started. I tried to find one online but will probably have to order one from a supply shop. Thanks again for all the useful information. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 5:02 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Mike, What DJ said about auto gas is on the money. After a few monthes my gascolator gasket AND the gasket on the fuel cap, both started to distort. So I suspect you have the neoprene needle in your carb like I did/do. Get the parts and do it yourself. Only critical points are to document how far any needles are in(count in half turns to fully closed) And you have to shim the float needle seat to get a certain height of fuel in the bowl with a measured column of fuel on the intake. Not hard to do,,,just fasten a piece of clear tubibg to the wall and measure the height of gas in the bowl. If it's too low/high dump it all out, reshim, and try again. Reassemble, replace the zillion safety wires, and you're good to go. If you're not comfortable with it, get the parts and the manual and get a friend whose mechanically inclined. The manual is literally step by step. I did my own and nothing flew off yet : ) My biggest headache with the carb was to set the idle mixture screw. Once on an approach, went to give it fuel from idle, and it coughed, sputtered, and started puking black smoke. Finally got it right. So check what the screw is before taking it apart walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike King To: Pietenpol Discussion Group Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 4:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Hey Gang, I need to call upon your expertise regarding a carburetor that is not just leaking gas, but pouring out. The carburetor is on an Cont. A-80 engine attached to a GN-1. Here is the rest of the story. The plane was last flown two years ago and has been sitting idle in a hanger. (don't ask why it has not been flown.... .that is another story) It had a =BC tank of auto gas and the gas tank switched to the on-position. (another story) Last weekend, the mechanic came out to do an annual. The compression on all four cylinders was between 73-78 over 80. He then tried to start it. After ten tries, the engine fired up and then died. The fuel switch was in the Off position. He tried to start it again but it would not. He then drained all of the old gas and put in $10.00 of Avgas. Again he tried and tried to start it but could not. He pushed it back into the hanger and came out again the next morning. He found the carburetor leaked most of the gas but there was enough to try to start it again. After a few turns of the prop, gas just poured out of the carburetor. He feels the carburetor should be overhauled and bench tested. I went through my paperwork and found the original receipt of the carburetor and saw where the plane builder bought an overhauled and bench checked Stromberg carburetor in 1983 from El Reno Aviation of Oklahoma for $259.00 (includes postage and insurance) I called them this morning and found out they no longer do that kind of work and recommended nearby Martin Inductions Systems. I talked to a Gene Martin who said the car gas probably gummed up the inside works. He said an overhaul would run $350.00. A needle and seat another $200 and a float could run the bill up to $650.00. It would take about a week to ten days for turnaround. I called the previous owner of the plane and he said that being an Experimental, I could carefully take the carburetor apart and clean it. He felt 95% sure it was just gummed up from the car gas and prolonged inactivity. He said carburetor cleaner, Q-tips and a clean cloth should clean it up to working condition. I feel his advice is worth taking however, I do not have a manual for the carburetor as how to do the overhaul. Does anybody in this group have a manual or can scan the procedure to me? Or do you know of a place online where I could go and get this information? Here are the particulars: Stromberg NAS3A1 A18033B-4 I do not know if it has the Neoprene tip, steel or Delrin needle. If I have to fix or replace the carburetor, where is the best place to send it to for repair or to shop for a replacement carburetor. I live in Dallas but will drive anywhere within reason to get this carburetor fixed. Thanks guys for any insight or help you can provide. Mike King GN-1 Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question
Date: Jun 10, 2004
Mike, The scenario you describe doesn't sound good. The fact that the oil pressure drops significantly when the engine has warmed up indicates excessive clearances within the engine causing an "internal hemorrhage" when the oil viscosity is reduced by high temperatures. And an elevated oil temperature is a bad sign, as well. Chris Bobka probably has the correct diagnosis of the problem, and it seems an engine overhaul is in the cards. However there is a possibility that the oil pump is badly worn and it is relatively easy to check it out first. But, unless their luck is a lot better than mine, the oil pump may be only part of the problem with excessive clearances existing throughout the engine. If this is the case, it is best to dismantle the engine and overhaul it NOW! Shimming the oil pressure relief valve spring is NOT a cure because, as Chris observed, it involves treating the symptom rather than the cause. Ideally, when all internal clearances are within the manufacturer's specified limits, the oil pressure should hold a fairly steady value, hot engine or cold engine. Sometimes the oil pressure relief valve seating is poor, and this can cause low oil pressure. But it is unlikely the cause of the problem you describe. Typically, the minimum hot idle oil pressure for the small Continentals is 10 psi (stated in their overhaul manuals). Really, this seems to be awfully low because in my experience it indicates a well-worn engine. I taught a high school aircraft maintenance course for 17 years and we used five venerable (and very tired) Continental A65 "practice" engines. They all had large clearances and displayed the same oil pressure problem you describe. But, amazingly, they did run pretty well thus demonstrating what tough little engines they are.We didn't run them too much, or too hard, and they certainly were not fit to fly! Increasing oil temperature accompanied by decreasing oil pressure are clear signs of impending doom! In my opinion, the C85 you are describing is likely due for a complete overhaul. Cheers, Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Aghh, so close...
Date: Jun 10, 2004
Just use your best judgement... you could either a) decrease the 12:1 scarf angle b) add ("scab" on) at the spars near the wing tips whatever amount you need to give you your desired wingspan c) reduce your wingspan Any of those options are OK in my opinion. If it were me, I would reduce the 12:1 scarf angle and scab heavily in the center section. But that's just me! :) Whatever you do will work just fine, I bet BC ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aghh, so close... Hello. I am new in list and have a lot of questions (I am from Argentina, so, sorry about my english). I just bought Hemlock to start building (that is what we use among others) but it is just 14=B41" long. If I plan to do 3/4" solids spars (one piece wing) with a 1:12 slope, can I just add a plywood on each side of the spar end (filled with hemlock) to extend it to the needed lenght (3" or 4") and attach the wing tip to it? I know it is a compression member, could that be a problem? Should I laminate my spars? What you, experienced people recommend me? thank you very much. Santiago Hi Mike C. I am still enjoying your video!! =BFC=F3mo us=E1s el correo electr=F3nico? =BFQu=E9 pens=E1s del spam y de los virus? Clic aqu=ED ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol?
Date: Jun 10, 2004
Just to add to Berts post. If you get those annoying checks from the credit card companies, dont use them. If you call the card company they will have a much cheaper rate for doing a direct deposit electronically into your account. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bert Conoly To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 7:06 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? Cory If your building a Pietenpol, or similar, a lot of the parts and materials can be purchased with a credit card and paid off at the end of the month or run a balance and pay your interest rate. This is convenient because when you are building a plane, you usually only need a few parts at a time - don't need the whole thing. and can be a very easy way to spread out purchases of a few hundred to thousands over several months. If you want to BUY one, I guess you could do so at a pretty good interest rate. 4 to 8 % maybe. Most credit card companies send those annoying checks about 5 times a month hoping you'll write one. I GUESS you could do THAT.... Pretty good interest rates, I think. I don't have any experience financing kits - I built mine over a period of several years and paid as I went. BC http://bconoly.tripod.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Cory Emberson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 7:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? Hello! I'm writing an article for Kitplanes magazine about financing for homebuilts. Has anyone had any experience in financing your Pietenpol (or other plane that you've built), and would you care to share that experience? Also, if you've had the experience of financing an already-completed homebuilt, I would love to hear from you as well. By the way, Greg Cardinal's beautiful Air Camper kit is featured in the July issue of Kitplanes (Exteriors and Interiors - page 41-42) - there's a gorgeous picture of the panel that he and Dale Johnson have handcrafted. Thanks so much! If you care to contact me off-list, my email address is cory(at)lightspeededit.com. My "list" email address is bootless(at)earthlink.net. Best, Cory Emberson KHWD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Aghh, so close...
<001901c44f67$a2b01110$6501a8c0@Nancy> Welcome to the list Santiago, There is a diagram of the wing load distribution on my pages at mykitplane.com. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoNameIMG_0592.jpg&PhotoID1397 The outer 10% of the wing panel only supports 4.4% 0f the load. The scarf on Don's plans and in the F+G manual show it to be 20-21" long, or about 5/1 angle. So that scarf will take away 10" from each 14' board. That last 10" at the tip is only supporting 1 1/2 to 2% and there are two of them which cuts it in half to 1% per spar. I think a butt joint with a12" long gusset on each side, of 1/8" ply will be more than adequate. The scarf in the middle doesn't take any bending loads. All the loading is supported by the cabane and wing struts. The only reason for the scarf is to provide material for the two bolts joining the two halves. Those will see loads in compression in posative G and tension in negative G. Remember, Bernard was pretty smart. Those two bolts are plenty strong enough. The alternative would be a butt joint with gussets and bolts adding quite a bit of weight for the same job. Your 12/1 slope would take away 12 X 4.75" or 58" from the span. A clipped wing Aircamper?? :-) :-) Clif Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aghh, so close... Just use your best judgement... you could either a) decrease the 12:1 scarf angle b) add ("scab" on) at the spars near the wing tips whatever amount you need to give you your desired wingspan c) reduce your wingspan Any of those options are OK in my opinion. If it were me, I would reduce the 12:1 scarf angle and scab heavily in the center section. But that's just me! :) Whatever you do will work just fine, I bet BC Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aghh, so close... Hello. I am new in list and have a lot of questions (I am from Argentina, so, sorry about my english). I just bought Hemlock to start building (that is what we use among others) but it is just 14=B41" long. If I plan to do 3/4" solids spars (one piece wing) with a 1:12 slope, can I just add a plywood on each side of the spar end (filled with hemlock) to extend it to the needed lenght (3" or 4") and attach the wing tip to it? I know it is a compression member, could that be a problem? Should I laminate my spars? What you, experienced people recommend me? thank you very much. Santiago Hi Mike C. I am still enjoying your video!! Clic aqu=ED ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Stapelberg" <norshel(at)mweb.co.za>
Subject: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol?
Date: Jun 11, 2004
Cory Yep I financed my Piet she had 114hrs on her airframe, our local finanancial institution finances homebuilt aircraft, they are merited as individuals and are rather understanding. The finance is structured over a short period and they register a bond on the plane, so as to secure the plane from premature sale without settlement of the loan. Norman Stapelberg South Africa ZS-VJA -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Navratil Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? Just to add to Berts post. If you get those annoying checks from the credit card companies, dont use them. If you call the card company they will have a much cheaper rate for doing a direct deposit electronically into your account. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bert Conoly <mailto:bconoly(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? Cory If your building a Pietenpol, or similar, a lot of the parts and materials can be purchased with a credit card and paid off at the end of the month or run a balance and pay your interest rate. This is convenient because when you are building a plane, you usually only need a few parts at a time - don't need the whole thing. and can be a very easy way to spread out purchases of a few hundred to thousands over several months. If you want to BUY one, I guess you could do so at a pretty good interest rate. 4 to 8 % maybe. Most credit card companies send those annoying checks about 5 times a month hoping you'll write one. I GUESS you could do THAT.... Pretty good interest rates, I think. I don't have any experience financing kits - I built mine over a period of several years and paid as I went. BC http://bconoly.tripod.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Cory Emberson <mailto:bootless(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? Hello! I'm writing an article for Kitplanes magazine about financing for homebuilts. Has anyone had any experience in financing your Pietenpol (or other plane that you've built), and would you care to share that experience? Also, if you've had the experience of financing an already-completed homebuilt, I would love to hear from you as well. By the way, Greg Cardinal's beautiful Air Camper kit is featured in the July issue of Kitplanes (Exteriors and Interiors - page 41-42) - there's a gorgeous picture of the panel that he and Dale Johnson have handcrafted. Thanks so much! If you care to contact me off-list, my email address is cory(at)lightspeededit.com. My "list" email address is bootless(at)earthlink.net. Best, Cory Emberson KHWD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cory Emberson" <bootless(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol?
Date: Jun 11, 2004
Hi Norman, Thanks for your note! How long did your bank write the loan for? Do you know if they finance the kits while under construction as well? Is your plane an Air Camper? All these questions! :-) Could you tell me a little bit more about the bond placed on the plane? I believe that here in the U.S., if someone finances a loan on a plane and then sells it, the lien on the plane is not released until it's paid off from the proceeds of the sale. Is that the same procedure that you're talking about? Do you mind if I identify your name and location in the article? Where in SA are you? My godmother grew up in Johannesburg (of course that was many years ago!). She loved it so much she even named her dog Jojo. :-) Thanks so much, and nice to meet you! Cory _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Norman Stapelberg Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? Cory Yep I financed my Piet she had 114hrs on her airframe, our local finanancial institution finances homebuilt aircraft, they are merited as individuals and are rather understanding. The finance is structured over a short period and they register a bond on the plane, so as to secure the plane from premature sale without settlement of the loan. Norman Stapelberg South Africa ZS-VJA -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Navratil Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? Just to add to Berts post. If you get those annoying checks from the credit card companies, dont use them. If you call the card company they will have a much cheaper rate for doing a direct deposit electronically into your account. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bert Conoly <mailto:bconoly(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? Cory If your building a Pietenpol, or similar, a lot of the parts and materials can be purchased with a credit card and paid off at the end of the month or run a balance and pay your interest rate. This is convenient because when you are building a plane, you usually only need a few parts at a time - don't need the whole thing. and can be a very easy way to spread out purchases of a few hundred to thousands over several months. If you want to BUY one, I guess you could do so at a pretty good interest rate. 4 to 8 % maybe. Most credit card companies send those annoying checks about 5 times a month hoping you'll write one. I GUESS you could do THAT.... Pretty good interest rates, I think. I don't have any experience financing kits - I built mine over a period of several years and paid as I went. BC http://bconoly.tripod.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Cory <mailto:bootless(at)earthlink.net> Emberson Subject: Pietenpol-List: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? Hello! I'm writing an article for Kitplanes magazine about financing for homebuilts. Has anyone had any experience in financing your Pietenpol (or other plane that you've built), and would you care to share that experience? Also, if you've had the experience of financing an already-completed homebuilt, I would love to hear from you as well. By the way, Greg Cardinal's beautiful Air Camper kit is featured in the July issue of Kitplanes (Exteriors and Interiors - page 41-42) - there's a gorgeous picture of the panel that he and Dale Johnson have handcrafted. Thanks so much! If you care to contact me off-list, my email address is cory(at)lightspeededit.com. My "list" email address is bootless(at)earthlink.net. Best, Cory Emberson KHWD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2004
Subject: Aghh, so close... and thanks
Thank you to all!! Clif, my 12/1 slope will be done in the 3/4 thickness of spar (I will splice it in the modern way, not like Bernard did). That will cost me about 3" to 4" on each spar, just the triangle between the last rib and wing tip. It coul be less (about 2,5") if I go for a 10/1 slope. I will put gussets in the joint anyway. Wing tip, as I understand, are also compression members, could that be a problem? Thanks again. Santiago --------------------------------- Cmo uss el correo electrnico? Qu penss del spam y de los virus? Clic aqu ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Waytogopiet(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 11, 2004
Subject: Re: 2004 recipient of the Tony Bingelis Award
In a message dated 6/9/2004 11:47:29 PM Central Standard Time, docshop(at)tds.net writes: But we are so fortunate to have some really outstanding individuals (no names here, please, but you know who you are) in our purposely down home group. Alex is one of the nice guys. Doc Mosher Oshkosh USA I think there are many who would agree that a certain Doc Mosher also fits this category quite well !! Thanks Doc for putting this out to the list. Don Hicks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: 2004 recipient of the Tony Bingelis Award
Date: Jun 11, 2004
Friends, It all started in 1974. While attending the first Sun-N-Fun fly-In I was ovewhelmed with love and care by all who heard me utter the magic words, "I am going to build an airplane." I had never before experianced such open arm care. Again it was repeated in 1975 at the 2nd Sun-N-Fun. All during my 10 year mission to complete the RV-3 whenever I needed assistance it was there just for the asking. This, along with all the written words of Tony Bingelis, was my starting point to do what I could to repay. I owed so much to so many. I once asked "How do you repay someone for being nice to you? The answer I got was, "You just pass it along." That is what has been my creed and it is so obvious it is yours as well. Thanks to Doc and Mike and all for the kind words. Hope to see one and all at Oshkosh,\. Alex Sloan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc Mosher" <docshop(at)tds.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: 2004 recipient of the Tony Bingelis Award Well, one of our own guys did it! Alex Sloan, who is a sometime participant in our little Piet Chat Group, has been announced as the 2004 recipient of EAA's Tony Bingelis Award. You can read all about it in the next few weeks in EAA's various publications, but the gist of the news is that Alex is the man. Alex lives in Florence, Alabama, and as participants in our little chat group know, he is building a Piet with a Corvair engine. To quote Tom Poberezny, "Alex Sloan truly embodies the values of EAA and the legacy established by Tony Bingelis. He epitomizes volunteerism within the organization and is consistently willing to share his knowledge and resources to promote better airplanes, more prepared pilots, and safer flight. He is an outstanding and most deserving recipient of the Bingelis Award." I can go on and embarrass Alex by citing the fact that he became a Tech Counselor in 1985, a Flight Advisor in 1994, and in 2000 he was named the first Chairman of the EAA Homebuilt Aircraft Council. He has received the EAA President's Award and EAA's Major Achievement Award in 2001. He has constructed two RV-model aircraft, and - talk about getting into building a real homebuilt airplane - is currently building a Pietenpol. Alex conducts a number of forums at Oshkosh and Lakeland, so a lot of you guys have met him. He will receive his proper recognition at AirVenture at the annual Homebuilder Dinner on July 29. This dinner is usually held at EAA's Nature Center pavilion. We all kind of have a personal pride in being a part of the bib overall Piet group - tailwheels, open cockpits, 75 year old design, etc. like we are the po' boys. But we are so fortunate to have some really outstanding individuals (no names here, please, but you know who you are) in our purposely down home group. Alex is one of the nice guys. Doc Mosher Oshkosh USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
Subject: Plywood, Wing and Cabane Struts, Turnbuckles, etc
Date: Jun 11, 2004
Do I absolutely need "aircraft grade plywood"? (I'm assuming no). I have 1/4" mahogany available up here to me in the bush (Alaska). Can this be used instead? (Yes, I realize the added weight vs. thinner side walls and seats). Sure a lot cheaper though! Also, for the gussets I will be getting that from Aircraft Spruce & Speacialty (I have no choice), any need to get 45 degree or is 90 degree fine? (It would actually seem 90 would be better taking into account the angles of the braces[?]). As a side note regarding the 1/4" plywood, I have already factored in the filler strips and variances because of the extra thickness by the way (i.e. building them up and lapping over so it's even front to back, etc.). As far as wing struts and cabane struts, Mike Cuy I need your help specifically here as I will be paterning mine directly after yours (same dihedral, +2" on the centers, and in the end I've decided to go with the three pc. wing as well). I am ordering from Aircraft Spruce. Can you tell me what you ordered and in what length, etc. Do you also have a list of all turnbuckles and hardware you used with regard to the struts and cabanes? A lot of this stuff when it comes to hardware is simply Greek to me. I'm trying to ship as much as possible with one order because of the high shipping cost. As always to all, your help greatly appreciated. Thanks, Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2004
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
etc
Subject: Re: Plywood, Wing and Cabane Struts, Turnbuckles, etc
you could check local cabinet suppliers, or cabinet shops to see if baltic birch is available. it comes in 5 x 5 sheets from russia that comes in mm thicknesses, the thinnest being about 3/16 inch thick. very strong Del Stacy Clark <stacy@unicom-alaska.com> wrote: Do I absolutely need "aircraft grade plywood"? (I'm assuming no). I have 1/4" mahogany available up here to me in the bush (Alaska). Can this be used instead? (Yes, I realize the added weight vs. thinner side walls and seats). Sure a lot cheaper though! Also, for the gussets I will be getting that from Aircraft Spruce & Speacialty (I have no choice), any need to get 45 degree or is 90 degree fine? (It would actually seem 90 would be better taking into account the angles of the braces[?]). As a side note regarding the 1/4" plywood, I have already factored in the filler strips and variances because of the extra thickness by the way (i.e. building them up and lapping over so it's even front to back, etc.). As far as wing struts and cabane struts, Mike Cuy I need your help specifically here as I will be paterning mine directly after yours (same dihedral, +2" on the centers, and in the end I've decided to go with the three pc. wing as well). I am ordering from Aircraft Spruce. Can you tell me what you ordered and in what length, etc. Do you also have a list of all turnbuckles and hardware you used with regard to the struts and cabanes? A lot of this stuff when it comes to hardware is simply Greek to me. I'm trying to ship as much as possible with one order because of the high shipping cost. As always to all, your help greatly appreciated. Thanks, Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Aghh, so close... and thanks
Okay, a 12/1 slope will give 38 sq inchs. Shear of hemlock is 1170lb/sq. inch. Flat face to face joint 42,000lb. There is a component of end grain in this joint. Now the guessing. I think you will still have 30,000lb in the joint. I don't think you will see more than 4000lb in compression assuming a max weight of 1200lb and 4 G load. The wingtip is a different matter. You're only looking at 2% of that panels load overall. 600lb/panel, 120lb, 1/2 that per spar30lb but some of the load is born by the aileron mounting plate, some by the leading edge and some in the aileron itself. You could probably cut that 30lb in half, 15lb. At 4G that's 60lb. Both the compression and tension components will be around 100lb. Compression strength in hemlock is 5300lb/sq. inch. Tension on the bottom cap will also be 100lb and that will be born by the ply. All this for a simple butt joint with 1/8" ply gusset plates. I don't see any strength issues here. A 12/1 scarf here would be plenty strong also but more difficult to get right. In any scarf I would not go less than 12/1. The strength will drop dramaticaly. It's not a linear progression. Okay! Okay! I'll leave now. :-) :-) Clif. Don't expect any response for the rest of the weekend. Party time on Saltspring Island! Woohoo. My response function MAY be OK by Monday.:-) :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aghh, so close... and thanks Thank you to all!! Clif, my 12/1 slope will be done in the 3/4 thickness of spar (I will splice it in the modern way, not like Bernard did). That will cost me about 3" to 4" on each spar, just the triangle between the last rib and wing tip. It coul be less (about 2,5") if I go for a 10/1 slope. I will put gussets in the joint anyway. Wing tip, as I understand, are also compression members, could that be a problem? Thanks again. Santiago =BFC=F3mo us=E1s el correo electr=F3nico? =BFQu=E9 pens=E1s del spam y de los virus? Clic aqu=ED ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
etc
Subject: Re: Plywood, Wing and Cabane Struts, Turnbuckles, etc
Wooden boat builders too. Ask around. Someone's probably building light kayaks and canoes. Clif you could check local cabinet suppliers, or cabinet shops to see if baltic birch is available. it comes in 5 x 5 sheets from russia that comes in mm thicknesses, the thinnest being about 3/16 inch thick. very strong Del Stacy Clark <stacy@unicom-alaska.com> wrote: Do I absolutely need "aircraft grade plywood"? (I'm assuming no). I have 1/4" mahogany available up here to me in the bush (Alaska). Can this be used instead? (Yes, I realize the added weight vs. thinner side walls and seats). Sure a lot cheaper though! Also, for the gussets I will be getting that from Aircraft Spruce & Speacialty (I have no choice), ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: Saa/Urbana
Date: Jun 13, 2004
Corky- I had made plans to fly to Urbana ever since last year. Had the vacation all blocked out and the Piet double checked and loaded with clothes and camping gear. I tried to go Thurs, Fri, Sat, and finally gave up. The weather was terrible and Urbana always seemed to be inside one of those red boxes that you see now and then on the weather channel ( meaning SEVERE weather). And I only live in Cincinnati!!!! It was the most frustrating three days I've ever spent, being SO eager to do something that I love and not being able to do it. I can only imagine what it has been like for you to be sweating out this Sport Pilot thing. Please hang in there........I want to meet you and see your Piet, as do many others. I hope that some of this group were able to attend as the SAA is an organization worthy of support and growth. It would be a shame to see it wither. Any reports from the field??? Anyway, I'll unpack my stuff and buzz around here for a month or so, then re-do everything in preparation for Brodhead. Can't wait.... Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Turnbuckles, etc
Subject: Re: Plywood, Wing and Cabane Struts,
Turnbuckles, etc Stacy-- I have my wing strut and cabane dimensions at home in a file. LxW and wall thickness. Nothing too magic about AN hardware once you read the introduction about it in Tony Bingelis's books. Makes sense then--finally, AND he tells you how to install it properly so your FAA inspector won't nick you and have you re-do things that you thought were ok. A big savings in the long run those Bingelis books. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WPTCorp(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 15, 2004
Subject: rpm's
I have a piet that was built in 1975 and it has a 1965 110 hp corvair, the original prop was a 66/30 prop and it was broken when they had an off airport accident. We got an another wood prop but all I can get out of the engine (new rebuilt is 2250 rpms ant 5500 feet elevation in Casper, WY. Wayne in his book talks about it running over 3000 rpms, what is the normal rpm a corvair should run? Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2004
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: rpm's
How is your rebuilt engine set up? Do you have the blower on it, is it built per william wynns plans, with an ot 10 cam? what kind of carburation? what kind of ignition? A common problem is assembling the engine with the timing one tooth off. my cam was actually marked wrong, and I was glad that I took the time to do a cam degree check. The static rpm will be less than take off or cruise rpm Del WPTCorp(at)aol.com wrote: I have a piet that was built in 1975 and it has a 1965 110 hp corvair, the original prop was a 66/30 prop and it was broken when they had an off airport accident. We got an another wood prop but all I can get out of the engine (new rebuilt is 2250 rpms ant 5500 feet elevation in Casper, WY. Wayne in his book talks about it running over 3000 rpms, what is the normal rpm a corvair should run? Dave Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Corvair "almost done" Piet for auction on ebay
guys-- just found this while looking at ebay. It ends in 5.5 hours and the bids are only up to 4,500....... Mike C. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2481738633&category=63677&sspagename=WDVW Vehicle Description Pietenpol Aircamper. 90% complete. Fuselage and wings covered and painted. Used Poly-Fiber process through Poly-Brush. Painted using oil based Rustoleum house paint. Flight controls coverd, painted, installed and rigged. Instrument cowls fitted and painted. Gear installed (with mechanical brakes, drum). I have two Corvair engines (110 hp) that require overhaul and mod for aircraft installation. J-3 header fuel tank installed as header in front of forward instrument panel. All instruments installed in panel and connections run to fire wall for engine instruments. Pitot plumbing installed. Built by an A&P with IA. Plans included. Located in the Wichita, Kansas area. Please feel free to call for more details or to arrange to see the project. (316) 729-9277 Vehicle Condition Started project in Nov 98 and worked off and on for the last 5 years. Used Douglas Fir and Sitka Spruce in fuselage trussing and Sitka Spruce wing ribs and spars. Streamlined 4130 tubing used in cabanes and lift struts. Also installed cockpit entry streamlined tube step under the pilot seat. Engine overhaul estimated to be approximately $1500.00 to $2000.00 including parts and machine work to finish. Prop is available but not included inthe price. Hegy prop $550.00 new. Will charge the same if interested in including with sale. Terms of Sale Cash, certified check or money order. 500.00 due within 48 hours and remainder due within 7 days of auction end. Aircraft removal is the responsibility of the buyer and must be removed from current hangar by July 1, 2004, unless storage arrangements have been made with the hangar owner. Aircraft is registered with the FAA (not Type Certificated Airworthy) and can be transfered at conclusion of sale. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Status on the crippled piet! was aircamper for sale
Date: Jun 15, 2004
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Oh thanks mike, now the bidding war will ensue! I was hoping to pick it up for a song! (Just kidding really) My Piet is back in the air with a new prop and rebuilt landing gear. It took three months of spare time to learn to carve a prop, but it is done and spins smoother than the original. I only put on circuit on it before landing to adjust the ailerons. Discovered that I also had a slightly bent aileron horn on the damaged wing that resulted in a just-left-of-center stick placement to hold straight and level. Engine crank run-out was dead on the money, thank heavens for wood damage absorbing qualities. Also, I've given up hopes of going to OSH together as a gaggle. Only three of us were able to commit. I will probably fly on in myself, since I'm interested in the 30 or so Stinsons that plan to be there. (My current _other_ project). See you all in Brodhead. Steve E ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair "almost done" Piet for auction on ebay guys-- just found this while looking at ebay. It ends in 5.5 hours and the bids are only up to 4,500....... Mike C. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item24817 38633&category63677&sspagenameWDVW Vehicle Description Pietenpol Aircamper. 90% complete. Fuselage and wings covered and painted. Used Poly-Fiber process through Poly-Brush. Painted using oil based Rustoleum house paint. Flight controls coverd, painted, installed and rigged. Instrument cowls fitted and painted. Gear installed (with mechanical brakes, drum). I have two Corvair engines (110 hp) that require overhaul and mod for aircraft installation. J-3 header fuel tank installed as header in front of forward instrument panel. All instruments installed in panel and connections run to fire wall for engine instruments. Pitot plumbing installed. Built by an A&P with IA. Plans included. Located in the Wichita, Kansas area. Please feel free to call for more details or to arrange to see the project. (316) 729-9277 Vehicle Condition Started project in Nov 98 and worked off and on for the last 5 years. Used Douglas Fir and Sitka Spruce in fuselage trussing and Sitka Spruce wing ribs and spars. Streamlined 4130 tubing used in cabanes and lift struts. Also installed cockpit entry streamlined tube step under the pilot seat. Engine overhaul estimated to be approximately $1500.00 to $2000.00 including parts and machine work to finish. Prop is available but not included inthe price. Hegy prop $550.00 new. Will charge the same if interested in including with sale. Terms of Sale Cash, certified check or money order. 500.00 due within 48 hours and remainder due within 7 days of auction end. Aircraft removal is the responsibility of the buyer and must be removed from current hangar by July 1, 2004, unless storage arrangements have been made with the hangar owner. Aircraft is registered with the FAA (not Type Certificated Airworthy) and can be transfered at conclusion of sale. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 15, 2004
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Just out of curiosity.... Who is planning to attend? Name __________________ Flying or driving _____________ Aircraft _______________ Departure point of origin _____________ Steve Eldredge (solo) Flying 1997 Pietenpol Aircamper A-65 Spanish Fork Utah Steve E ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
du> Steve-- if the forecast for that weekend looks promising I might bring my Piet up for the weekend. Mike C. PS-- will be driving to Osh after I bring the Piet home. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2004
From: "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
John Ford john(at)indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> steve(at)byu.edu Tuesday, June 15, 2004 3:21:08 PM >>> Just out of curiosity.... Who is planning to attend? John Ford Driving with wife and 2 kids West Terre Haute, Indiana ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 15, 2004
From: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Steve, I will be driving from Des Moines, IA. Look forward to meeting you. I have followed your and Mike's construction and adventures for years. Jack Textor Under Construction ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 15, 2004
Jack, I flew through and spent a day at Morning Star airfield 5 years ago (5YEARS!!!) on my way to B-head in 1999. Great Hospitality! Stevee ________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Textor, Jack Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 roll call Steve, I will be driving from Des Moines, IA. Look forward to meeting you. I have followed your and Mike's construction and adventures for years. Jack Textor Under Construction ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 15, 2004
Greg Cardinal Driving (unless a miracle happens!) Minneapolis, MN ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 3:21 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 roll call Just out of curiosity.. Who is planning to attend? Name __________________ Flying or driving _____________ Aircraft _______________ Departure point of origin _____________ Steve Eldredge (solo) Flying 1997 Pietenpol Aircamper A-65 Spanish Fork Utah Steve E ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 15, 2004
From: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Steve, It is still there! Let me know if you would want me to contact them for your arrival for gas, etc. Jack _____ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 15, 2004
----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 3:21 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 roll call Just out of curiosity.. Who is planning to attend? Name __Alex Sloan________________ Flying or driving __Driving___________ Aircraft _______________ Departure point of origin ___Florence, Alabama__________ Steve Eldredge (solo) Flying 1997 Pietenpol Aircamper A-65 Spanish Fork Utah Steve E ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 15, 2004
Hey Steve, Name -- Mike Conkling Driving -- got to stop by & pick up my hats!! Departure point of origin -- Pretty Prairie, KS Keep 'em Flying! Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 15, 2004
Just out of curiosity.. Who is planning to attend? Name _Jim Dallas_________________ Flying or driving _more than likely driving____________ Aircraft _maybe a 150______________ Departure point of origin ___1k1 Benton__________ Motel or Camping_____camping Steve Eldredge (solo) Flying 1997 Pietenpol Aircamper A-65 Spanish Fork Utah Steve E ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 15, 2004
Mike, I hope you fly, I still need about 20 gazillion more pictures. If your airplanes not there I'll only get about 18 gazillion. Jim Dallas ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 3:38 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 roll call Steve-- if the forecast for that weekend looks promising I might bring my Piet up for the weekend. Mike C. PS-- will be driving to Osh after I bring the Piet home. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 15, 2004
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Steve, I'll be going Wichita to Brodhead...via the 'Southern Route'. Take off here in the middle of July, head to Dallas and hook up with Jim M., Max D., Terry B., Hank S. Then over to Shreveport Louisiana to meet Corky and Isabelle, then up to Brodhead, and on up to Oshkosh. I'm planning on going on north up around Lake Michigan, climb to the highest altitude she's ever been to, to cross the lake near the Macanac Bridge, down thru the state of Michigan and thru Ohio to Columbus, then on to my hometown of Wheeling WV. Then back to Wichita, thru St. Louis and meet up with Dennis E. My big adventure will be three weeks right, now, but I'm trying to get one more week off work (unpaid) to complete. If I can't get that last week off, I might not make it to Oshkosh, instead go home to Wheeling. Any other Pietenpolers along this route, please let me know, and maybe we can meet at some small airport along this route I have planned !! It's the ONLY way to see Americana !! I'm really looking forward to this journey. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 15, 2004
----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 2:21 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 roll call Just out of curiosity.. Who is planning to attend? Name John Dilatush (Solo) Flying or driving Flying Aircraft "Mountain Piet" Departure point of origin Salida, Colorado Steve Eldredge (solo) Flying 1997 Pietenpol Aircamper A-65 Spanish Fork Utah Steve E ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 16, 2004
Skip Gadd 172 flying if VFR, driving if not Elizabeth WV Just out of curiosity. Who is planning to attend? Name __________________ Flying or driving _____________ Aircraft _______________ Departure point of origin _____________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 15, 2004
Just out of curiosity.. Who is planning to attend? Name __Jim Markle Flying or driving ___flying to Milwaukee Fri am, renting a car, driving to Brodhead and driving back to Milwaukee for a flight home Sunday am. Aircraft __Yes, slowly but surely...... Departure point of origin __Plano, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 16, 2004
Usually, flying to Madison MSN is cheaper and the rental cars are cheaper there too. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 11:30 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 roll call Just out of curiosity.. Who is planning to attend? Name __Jim Markle Flying or driving ___flying to Milwaukee Fri am, renting a car, driving to Brodhead and driving back to Milwaukee for a flight home Sunday am. Aircraft __Yes, slowly but surely...... Departure point of origin __Plano, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 16, 2004
Usually, flying to Madison MSN is cheaper and the rental cars are cheaper there too. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 11:30 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 roll call Just out of curiosity.. Who is planning to attend? Name __Jim Markle Flying or driving ___flying to Milwaukee Fri am, renting a car, driving to Brodhead and driving back to Milwaukee for a flight home Sunday am. Aircraft __Yes, slowly but surely...... Departure point of origin __Plano, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
<00c001c45368$0f5bdfc0$0301a8c0@Domain>
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 16, 2004
Ohhh, good idea! Well the bad news is: I travel a lot and don't get to work on my Air Camper NEARLY often enough....the good news is: I end up with free car rentals (and hotel stays...) and my son works for American Airlines so I fly for free...hey, that's a savings I can apply to those new wire wheels I need to order!!! I hadn't even thought about flying into MSN but will sure check it out, thanks Chris! Looks like this year is shaping up to be a big one at Brodhead.....I can hardly wait!!!! jm ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:06 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 roll call Usually, flying to Madison MSN is cheaper and the rental cars are cheaper there too. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 11:30 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 roll call Just out of curiosity.. Who is planning to attend? Name __Jim Markle Flying or driving ___flying to Milwaukee Fri am, renting a car, driving to Brodhead and driving back to Milwaukee for a flight home Sunday am. Aircraft __Yes, slowly but surely...... Departure point of origin __Plano, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
<00c001c45368$0f5bdfc0$0301a8c0@Domain> <001701c453a5$6dfb6e00$6401a8c0@FAMILY>
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 16, 2004
Jim, I used to jumpseat from Dallas to St Louis to Madison. That way you can also check out the original Ryan Brougham in Lindbergh's colors and his Monocoupe as well. They hang at the east end of the main terminal right above security. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 8:25 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 roll call Ohhh, good idea! Well the bad news is: I travel a lot and don't get to work on my Air Camper NEARLY often enough....the good news is: I end up with free car rentals (and hotel stays...) and my son works for American Airlines so I fly for free...hey, that's a savings I can apply to those new wire wheels I need to order!!! I hadn't even thought about flying into MSN but will sure check it out, thanks Chris! Looks like this year is shaping up to be a big one at Brodhead.....I can hardly wait!!!! jm ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:06 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 roll call Usually, flying to Madison MSN is cheaper and the rental cars are cheaper there too. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 11:30 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 roll call Just out of curiosity.. Who is planning to attend? Name __Jim Markle Flying or driving ___flying to Milwaukee Fri am, renting a car, driving to Brodhead and driving back to Milwaukee for a flight home Sunday am. Aircraft __Yes, slowly but surely...... Departure point of origin __Plano, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 16, 2004
Chuck, I live near St. Louis but am moving to Florida the first week of July. If you are looking for a great small airport to stop at in the St. Louis area, try Shafer Field (3K6). It's about 25 miles East of St. Louis near St. Jacob, Illinois. It's a very nice little family owned place. For a bigger place, there's Smartt Field (KSET) North of St. Louis near St. Charles, Missouri. They have a big EAA chapter over there along with a museum, restaurant, etc. Good luck to you. Eric >From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 roll call >Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:05:47 EDT > > >Steve, >I'll be going Wichita to Brodhead...via the 'Southern Route'. Take off >here >in the middle of July, head to Dallas and hook up with Jim M., Max D., >Terry >B., Hank S. Then over to Shreveport Louisiana to meet Corky and Isabelle, >then up to Brodhead, and on up to Oshkosh. I'm planning on going on north >up >around Lake Michigan, climb to the highest altitude she's ever been to, to >cross >the lake near the Macanac Bridge, down thru the state of Michigan and thru >Ohio to Columbus, then on to my hometown of Wheeling WV. Then back to >Wichita, >thru St. Louis and meet up with Dennis E. My big adventure will be three >weeks right, now, but I'm trying to get one more week off work (unpaid) to >complete. If I can't get that last week off, I might not make it to >Oshkosh, instead >go home to Wheeling. >Any other Pietenpolers along this route, please let me know, and maybe we >can >meet at some small airport along this route I have planned !! It's the >ONLY >way to see Americana !! I'm really looking forward to this journey. > >Chuck Gantzer >NX770CG > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 16, 2004
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
In a message dated 6/15/2004 1:21:55 PM Mountain Standard Time, steve(at)byu.edu writes: Just out of curiosity=E2=80=A6. Who is planning to attend? Am looking for to my first Broadhead, Rick Holland Driving Under construction Castle Rock, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 16, 2004
614 Paragon...
Subject: Fwd: Event No. 6 of the Louisiana EAA Fly-in Series -
the Chapter 614 Paragon... Pieters, Thought maybe some of you non-Louisianers might want to try some REAL cajun hospitality. This one is beginning to be THE fly in of the year especially with a sponser like the Paragon Casino. The buffet alone is worth flying a Piet a thousand or two miles to attend. Bet ole Mike Cuy is drooling as he reads this. by rly-xg05.mx.aol.com (v99_r4.3) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXG56-47040d0500515a; Subject: Event No. 6 of the Louisiana EAA Fly-in Series - the Chapter 614 Paragon Festival of Flight on June 18-19 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:48:04 -0500 Paragon Festival of Flight on June 18-19 From: "Troy Toelle" <ttoelle(at)eaa.org> You look stressed. I think you need a little weekend trip to get away from=20it all and just have a very enjoyable and relaxing time. It also has to involve airplanes of course. What a coincidence... I have just the perfect event to accomplish that. It is time to remind everyone about Event No. 6 of the Louisiana EAA Fly-in Series - the Chapter 614 Paragon Festival of Flight=20on June 18-19. The CENLA Chapter 614 is sponsoring this event along with the Paragon Casino in Marksville. The fly-in will be at the Marksville Airport (Airport Info) I understand there are still some rooms available for Friday, June 18th and=20Saturday, June 19th. The rates are $69.99 for both nights or $39.99 for Sat night only. When they are gone... they're, you know.....gone. It is time to stop procrastinating and make your reservations right now. You can pre-register directly with the Casino. Call 1-800-642-7777, ask for the hotel reservation desk, and request the "Paragon Festival of Flight Group" (this=20must be done and paid for on a credit card). There is also a special $10 rate at the Paragon RV resort. Now I know pilots like the word free...well I guess everyone likes the word=20free. What's going to be free? Well here we go... * Private Party Sat night for EAA guests featuring "Louisiana Express" in the Cabaret Lounge. We will also have awards presentations at this time. * Cajun Band on the ramp Sat. to greet you when you arrive. * Free T-shirts for the first 150 EAA registrants * Free buffets for the first 100 pilots and spouses who fly in and register. * Lots of door prizes will be given away (buffet tickets, concert tickets, golf passes, hotel stays, gaming money etc.) * Forums are being put together, but I don't have the subjects or schedules. Show up and be surprised. So what else could you possibly want for free? What did you say? A free airplane? Well we're going to either have to get some real high rollers in this group or this event needs to grow significantly to reach that level - but I guess there is no harm in dreaming. We are expecting lots of aircraft, so be patient when you arrive and try to=20park as close as you can, space is a premium. This is going to be another great event, so call others and let them know. Here's a business trying to do something good for us - the general aviation community. Do you know of any other non-aviation related business trying to do something to support and=20stimulate general aviation? If you can come up with any then I bet it is a=20very short list. So come on out and support our sponsor. Its not like you're making a big sacrifice because remember you are going to have a very enjoyable and relaxing weekend and the price is right. You say it's going to be hot. Well don't forget that a lot of the activities take place inside of the nice comfortable, air-conditioned casino - and they have a nice cool pool. You say this is the time of year where there are daily afternoon thunderstorms. No problem - just fly in on Friday or Saturday morning and fly home=20on Sunday morning... problem solved. And if you sit at home you're still going to get the heat and the afternoon thunder bumper anyway. So now you are out of excuses. I plan to see all of you there. For more info, contact Jim Moody at 318-451-8204 Cell, 318-793-2992 Home, or moody888@aol.com. The Paragon Casino Website is http://www.grandcasinoavoyelles.com/. And as always everything you ever need to know about the Louisiana EAA Fly-in Series is on http://members.cox.net/rivierja/. * Weather Note: You must have or get a "Preferred Card" to be eligible for any of the low fares or door prizes. Ask for info when you call. This is how the Casino tracks the attendance. If you decide to participate in gaming, please, please, please use you Preferred Card so that it shows up that you were there. The only way to continue this event year to year is to have some way to track attendance. If you prefer not to participate, not a problem, but if you do, please use the card. Regards, Jim Riviere Fly-in Series Coordinator rivierja(at)cox.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 2004
From: Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net>
Subject: Broadhead Roll Call
Thanks, Steve, for the initiative to get a Roll Call. I will be driving down from Oshkosh, and driving back on Sunday. Probably camping. Again, I suggest that we wear name tags so we can find each other. I will bring name tag materials. This sounds like a GREAT Brodhead get-together! Doc Mosher Oshkosh USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 16, 2004
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Chuck, Isabelle says the more the merrier. However, we only have three extra bedrooms for you, Jim, Max, Terry and Hank so two of you will have to couch and cot. Plenty of room at the dinner table for all. I'll arrange for a landing at Bluebird Hill airport and will have transportation. It would be good to know when you expect to be here. Corky PS What would you prefer? Italian, Cajun or Yankee food? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 16, 2004
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 06/15/04
In a message dated 6/15/04 11:57:59 PM, pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: << Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 roll call >> Carl and Ann Lekven will be flying comercial to ORD, then rent a car, stay in Monroe? Looking forward to seeing you all again. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Corky's Piet
Date: Jun 16, 2004
Hello, low 'n' slow fliers; I had thought that I'd leave this announcement to Corky and maybe I should have, but I just have to tell somebody and it might as well be all y'all. I'm soon to be -Lord willing- the new owner of NX41CC, the Pietenpol that Corky Corbett recently completed and test flew. Money is changing hands, I have a hangar arranged for here just outside San Antonio, a ferry flight is being arranged, insurance, a fresh biennial and Airman 3rd Class Medical for me, etc. etc. I put up some pictures on a webpage, at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html if any of you haven't seen pictures of this beautiful, classic example of our beloved little airplane. More details to follow, as well as a report on my flight checkout and "first solo", but not for a while. I'll be leaving the country for the first week of July for a 35th anniversary celebration with my wife, then once I get back I'll be getting serious about a self-imposed minimum 10 hrs. dual time with my instructor Charlie Avaritt in Four-One-Charlie-Charlie. My sincere thanks to Corky for giving me first crack at this airplane and for being so gracious in all his dealings with me. What a fine gentleman. Hope to fly out to Brodhead, but not this year! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Corky's Piet
Date: Jun 16, 2004
----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corky's Piet ================================== Oscar, Congratulations on your new purchase! I just knew that sooner or later you would succumb to the Pietenpol Virus! There is no cure------ Cordially, John ================================== > > Hello, low 'n' slow fliers; > > I had thought that I'd leave this announcement to Corky and maybe I should > have, but I just have to tell somebody and it might as well be all y'all. > > I'm soon to be -Lord willing- the new owner of NX41CC, the Pietenpol that > Corky Corbett recently completed and test flew. Money is changing hands, I > have a hangar arranged for here just outside San Antonio, a ferry flight is > being arranged, insurance, a fresh biennial and Airman 3rd Class Medical for > me, etc. etc. > > I put up some pictures on a webpage, at > http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html if any of you haven't seen > pictures of this beautiful, classic example of our beloved little airplane. > > More details to follow, as well as a report on my flight checkout and "first > solo", but not for a while. I'll be leaving the country for the first week > of July for a 35th anniversary celebration with my wife, then once I get > back I'll be getting serious about a self-imposed minimum 10 hrs. dual time > with my instructor Charlie Avaritt in Four-One-Charlie-Charlie. > > My sincere thanks to Corky for giving me first crack at this airplane and > for being so gracious in all his dealings with me. What a fine gentleman. > Hope to fly out to Brodhead, but not this year! > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 2004
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Corky's Piet
Oscar... Congrats. Glad to have another Texas Piet. Now we just need to get ours flying. Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike King" <mike(at)mking.us>
Subject: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 16, 2004
Chuck, Where in Dallas are you going to land? I might meet you in my GN-1. I cannot make the trip this year, but we might get a group of Texans to fly up next year. Mike King GN-1 77MK Dallas -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rcaprd(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 roll call Steve, I'll be going Wichita to Brodhead...via the 'Southern Route'. Take off here in the middle of July, head to Dallas and hook up with Jim M., Max D., Terry B., Hank S. Then over to Shreveport Louisiana to meet Corky and Isabelle, then up to Brodhead, and on up to Oshkosh. I'm planning on going on north up around Lake Michigan, climb to the highest altitude she's ever been to, to cross the lake near the Macanac Bridge, down thru the state of Michigan and thru Ohio to Columbus, then on to my hometown of Wheeling WV. Then back to Wichita, thru St. Louis and meet up with Dennis E. My big adventure will be three weeks right, now, but I'm trying to get one more week off work (unpaid) to complete. If I can't get that last week off, I might not make it to Oshkosh, instead go home to Wheeling. Any other Pietenpolers along this route, please let me know, and maybe we can meet at some small airport along this route I have planned !! It's the ONLY way to see Americana !! I'm really looking forward to this journey. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ========= ========= ========= http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list ========= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 16, 2004
Steve, Another thought. I want to meet as many of the Pietenpol builders as possible. I want to take picture of faces to place with names. I will be in the camp ground and will be easy to find. We will have two banners up for EAA Chapter 615. Evenings we sit and chew the fat and discuss the days events. Any one who can, please drop by and bring a lawn chair and join in the discussions. No refreshments, just frindly chat. We are usually just down from the Red Barn past the first aid station. Just wanted to through this out for one and all. Alex Sloan ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 3:21 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 roll call Just out of curiosity.. Who is planning to attend? Name __________________ Flying or driving _____________ Aircraft _______________ Departure point of origin _____________ Steve Eldredge (solo) Flying 1997 Pietenpol Aircamper A-65 Spanish Fork Utah Steve E ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Laurits Larsen" <pietlars(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 16, 2004
----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 4:21 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 roll call Just out of curiosity.. Who is planning to attend? Name Lou Larsen__________________ Flying or driving __Driving___________ Aircraft ___Still building - anxious to mount the new carb on the 'A'.____________ Departure point of origin ____Tavares, Fl_________ P.S. This will be our 8th Brodhead;looking forward to seeing every one. Steve Eldredge (solo) Flying 1997 Pietenpol Aircamper A-65 Spanish Fork Utah Steve E ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darrel E. Jones" <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
Subject: Re: Broadhead Roll Call
Date: Jun 16, 2004
This is to the group, My granddaughter and I are planning on flying in to Brodhead in our Stinson. Another local pilot out here in Sonoma, Frank Schelling, has his Hisso powered Jenny together and flying and has already taken top honors at the Watsonville and Merced antique fly-ins. He, with help from others here at Schellville and Sonoma Skypark, has the Jenny disassembled and packed to truck to Brodhead. We'll put it together, test fly it, and then fly it up to Oshkosh for that event. It's not a Piet, but I'm sure everyone flying or building a Piet will appreciate seeing it fly. We'll see you all there. Darrel Jones and granddaughter Ashley Last at Brodhead for the 2002 fly-in PS. I'm currently rebuilding the Corvair engine for my Piet varient and hope to get it out there with Walt Bowe's Piet next year. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc Mosher" <docshop(at)tds.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Broadhead Roll Call > > > Thanks, Steve, for the initiative to get a Roll Call. > > I will be driving down from Oshkosh, and driving back on Sunday. Probably > camping. Again, I suggest that we wear name tags so we can find each > other. I will bring name tag materials. This sounds like a GREAT Brodhead > get-together! > > Doc Mosher > Oshkosh USA > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 16, 2004
Subject: Re: ebay piet auction
In a message dated 6/16/04 1:14:26 AM Central Daylight Time, sbobka(at)charter.net writes: << It sounds like Doug Bryant is selling out... Chuck? >> Doug sold his Pietenpol last year, to someone in the St. Louis area. Now, he's knee deep in Corbin Baby Ace's. I'm not sure who that is in the auction. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Corky's Piet
Date: Jun 16, 2004
Oscar, What airport are you going to be at? I usually have an overnight in San Antonio at least once a month. Jim Dallas ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Cc: Isablcorky(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 10:38 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corky's Piet Hello, low 'n' slow fliers; I had thought that I'd leave this announcement to Corky and maybe I should have, but I just have to tell somebody and it might as well be all y'all. I'm soon to be -Lord willing- the new owner of NX41CC, the Pietenpol that Corky Corbett recently completed and test flew. Money is changing hands, I have a hangar arranged for here just outside San Antonio, a ferry flight is being arranged, insurance, a fresh biennial and Airman 3rd Class Medical for me, etc. etc. I put up some pictures on a webpage, at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html if any of you haven't seen pictures of this beautiful, classic example of our beloved little airplane. More details to follow, as well as a report on my flight checkout and "first solo", but not for a while. I'll be leaving the country for the first week of July for a 35th anniversary celebration with my wife, then once I get back I'll be getting serious about a self-imposed minimum 10 hrs. dual time with my instructor Charlie Avaritt in Four-One-Charlie-Charlie. My sincere thanks to Corky for giving me first crack at this airplane and for being so gracious in all his dealings with me. What a fine gentleman. Hope to fly out to Brodhead, but not this year! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 16, 2004
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
In a message dated 6/16/04 9:30:33 AM Central Daylight Time, ewilliams805(at)msn.com writes: << Chuck, I live near St. Louis but am moving to Florida the first week of July. If you are looking for a great small airport to stop at in the St. Louis area, try Shafer Field (3K6). It's about 25 miles East of St. Louis near St. Jacob, Illinois. It's a very nice little family owned place. For a bigger place, there's Smartt Field (KSET) North of St. Louis near St. Charles, Missouri. They have a big EAA chapter over there along with a museum, restaurant, etc. Good luck to you. Eric >> Thanks, Eric !! I'll circle both of those places on my chart. Dennis E. Is either of these airfields near your place ? Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 16, 2004
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
In a message dated 6/16/04 10:20:45 AM Central Daylight Time, Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes: << Chuck, Isabelle says the more the merrier. However, we only have three extra bedrooms for you, Jim, Max, Terry and Hank so two of you will have to couch and cot. Plenty of room at the dinner table for all. I'll arrange for a landing at Bluebird Hill airport and will have transportation. It would be good to know when you expect to be here. Corky PS What would you prefer? Italian, Cajun or Yankee food? >> Corky, I'm planning on living in a pup tent, for a month...so a couch or a cot would be like heaven to me !! Probably be there at Bluebird Hill, early in the third week of July. I haven't really had any down home Cajun cookin', so I vote for Cajun Food !! Chuck G. re-working the landing gear for spring strut suspension. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 16, 2004
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
In a message dated 6/16/04 2:34:36 PM Central Daylight Time, mike(at)mking.us writes: << Chuck, Where in Dallas are you going to land? I might meet you in my GN-1. I cannot make the trip this year, but we might get a group of Texans to fly up next year. Mike King GN-1 77MK Dallas >> Mike, I'll be looking for someplace called Plano, on the Northeast part of Dallas, then continue on down the east side of Dallas, to find Hank Styne, and on south to Waco, to find Terry B.'s grass strip. That would be great to meet up with you somewhere along the way. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Corky's Piet
Date: Jun 17, 2004
Jim asks- >Oscar, What airport are you going to be at? I usually have an overnight >in San >Antonio at least once a month. Once I get it back up here from Zapata (probably late July), it will be based at San Geronimo Airpark, 8T8 on the airport locator. It's out west of San Antonio proper, just a little ways outside Loop 1604 off of Hwy. 90. It's the home of EAA Chapter 35 and where the clubhouse is. I'll be sharing a hangar with a Zenair 601 (Corvair power!). There is no lodging near the field and it's a good ways from San Antonio Int'l., but with proper notice, arrangements can be made to meet someone coming in from out of town. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike King" <mike(at)mking.us>
Subject: Corky's Piet
Date: Jun 17, 2004
Oscar, Do you have the plane in Zapata? I might be going to Corpus Christi in the next few weeks and will try have my brother fly me in his Taylorcraft or Forney Aerocoupe up your way. I used to live in Laredo and visited the Zapata Masonic Lodge on many occasions. We used to explore a nearby underwater town when the lake/river would drop. Mike King GN-1 77MK Dallas -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corky's Piet Jim asks- >Oscar, What airport are you going to be at? I usually have an overnight >in San >Antonio at least once a month. Once I get it back up here from Zapata (probably late July), it will be based at San Geronimo Airpark, 8T8 on the airport locator. It's out west of San Antonio proper, just a little ways outside Loop 1604 off of Hwy. 90. It's the home of EAA Chapter 35 and where the clubhouse is. I'll be sharing a hangar with a Zenair 601 (Corvair power!). There is no lodging near the field and it's a good ways from San Antonio Int'l., but with proper notice, arrangements can be made to meet someone coming in from out of town. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ========= ========= ========= http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list ========= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jake Nichols" <cowboyjake(at)insight.rr.com>
Subject: Zanesville
Date: Jun 17, 2004
Are any of the Ohio area pilots going to fly to Zanesville this Saturday? I now have a set of Pietenpol plans and would like to look at one in real life. I have seen them before but once you have the plans you look for different things. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 18, 2004
Subject: Re: pork chop dinner
In a message dated 6/17/04 1:18:48 PM Central Daylight Time, Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes: << I swear that guy was meant to be born early and fly in the 1920's as a full-time barnstormer. >> Sometimes I have to do a touch & go on my buddy's barn roof, to flush 'em outa the bunker, so I can bomb 'em with Toilet Paper !!! YEEEEee HAAAWWww !!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Zanesville
Hello Jake, Won't be at Zanesville this weekend but you might want to wander up to Barber's in Alliance. Frank Pavliga's Piet is based there and can be looked at. I'll be taking mine to Ashtabula that Saturday so will most likely not be at the Tcraft doings. Mike C. July 9th, 10th & 11th 2004: Taylorcraft Foundation, Taylorcraft Owner's Club, Taylorcraft Factory Old-Timer's Fly-In & Reunion. Breakfast served Sat & Sun by EAA Chapter #82. Public Invited. Once again, we have the Basset Hound Waddle. Rumors of a real schedule are flying: 9:30 AM : Owner Preventative Maintenance 11:00 AM : Wing Trammeling and other wing build up problems 1:00 PM : Shinn Brakes & tail wheel problems 2:30 PM : Taylorcraft History Annual TOC & Foundation member meeting in the hangar Saturday at Sunset ( 9PM or so).... See the airplanes built in Alliance & the people that built them. Volunteers needed in all areas; see Forrest when you arrive. Contact Pat & Forrest & Kelli Barber 330 823-1168 - fbarber(at)alliancelink.com or Bruce Bixler 330 823-9748 - tocprez(at)yahoo.com For information regarding motel accommodations in the Alliance area, go to this link http://www.oaafly-in.com/, and click on the "Overnight" tab at the top of the page. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2004
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Corky's Piet
Hi Oscar, Congratulations for your new Piet, is good to hear that Corkys Piet is going to be in good hands. Just went to Airnav to look for the new "home" and found out that it has no photo on the page: http://www.airnav.com/airport/8T8 It think is a good idea, that you could to take a good photo of the field from your Piet and send it to them. Saludos Gary Gower. > > From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corky's Piet > > > > Jim asks- > > >Oscar, What airport are you going to be at? I usually have an > overnight > >in San > >Antonio at least once a month. > > Once I get it back up here from Zapata (probably late July), it will > be > based at San Geronimo Airpark, 8T8 on the airport locator. It's out > west of > San Antonio proper, just a little ways outside Loop 1604 off of Hwy. > 90. > It's the home of EAA Chapter 35 and where the clubhouse is. I'll be > sharing > a hangar with a Zenair 601 (Corvair power!). > > There is no lodging near the field and it's a good ways from San > Antonio > Int'l., but with proper notice, arrangements can be made to meet > someone > coming in from out of town. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Zanesville
Date: Jun 18, 2004
Jake, This weekend at Alliance is Corvair College running friday-sunday. You may want to go to this as well. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 7:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Zanesville Hello Jake, Won't be at Zanesville this weekend but you might want to wander up to Barber's in Alliance. Frank Pavliga's Piet is based there and can be looked at. I'll be taking mine to Ashtabula that Saturday so will most likely not be at the Tcraft doings. Mike C. July 9th, 10th & 11th 2004: Taylorcraft Foundation, Taylorcraft Owner's Club, Taylorcraft Factory Old-Timer's Fly-In & Reunion. Breakfast served Sat & Sun by EAA Chapter #82. Public Invited. Once again, we have the Basset Hound Waddle. Rumors of a real schedule are flying: 9:30 AM : Owner Preventative Maintenance 11:00 AM : Wing Trammeling and other wing build up problems 1:00 PM : Shinn Brakes & tail wheel problems 2:30 PM : Taylorcraft History Annual TOC & Foundation member meeting in the hangar Saturday at Sunset ( 9PM or so).... See the airplanes built in Alliance & the people that built them. Volunteers needed in all areas; see Forrest when you arrive. Contact Pat & Forrest & Kelli Barber 330 823-1168 - fbarber@alliancelink.com or Bruce Bixler 330 823-9748 - tocprez@yahoo.com For information regarding motel accommodations in the Alliance area, go to this link http://www.oaafly-in.com/, and click on the "Overnight" tab at the top of the page. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jake Nichols" <cowboyjake(at)insight.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Zanesville
Date: Jun 18, 2004
Thanks, I would but I am fitting Zanesville in between tennis lessons for my 4 year old and pictures for my 8 month old. Just enough time to get to there, spend an hour and get back home. ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 7:39 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Zanesville Jake, This weekend at Alliance is Corvair College running friday-sunday. You may want to go to this as well. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 7:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Zanesville Hello Jake, Won't be at Zanesville this weekend but you might want to wander up to Barber's in Alliance. Frank Pavliga's Piet is based there and can be looked at. I'll be taking mine to Ashtabula that Saturday so will most likely not be at the Tcraft doings. Mike C. July 9th, 10th & 11th 2004: Taylorcraft Foundation, Taylorcraft Owner's Club, Taylorcraft Factory Old-Timer's Fly-In & Reunion. Breakfast served Sat & Sun by EAA Chapter #82. Public Invited. Once again, we have the Basset Hound Waddle. Rumors of a real schedule are flying: 9:30 AM : Owner Preventative Maintenance 11:00 AM : Wing Trammeling and other wing build up problems 1:00 PM : Shinn Brakes & tail wheel problems 2:30 PM : Taylorcraft History Annual TOC & Foundation member meeting in the hangar Saturday at Sunset ( 9PM or so).... See the airplanes built in Alliance & the people that built them. Volunteers needed in all areas; see Forrest when you arrive. Contact Pat & Forrest & Kelli Barber 330 823-1168 - fbarber@alliancelink.com or Bruce Bixler 330 823-9748 - tocprez@yahoo.com For information regarding motel accommodations in the Alliance area, go to this link http://www.oaafly-in.com/, and click on the "Overnight" tab at the top of the page. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 18, 2004
Subject: Truax
Truax Field Dane County Regional Airport 115th Fighter Wing Official Homepage Dane County Regional Airport Truax Field is located at the Dane County Regional Airport, just on the northeast side of Madison, Wisconsin. Truax Field was activated as an Army Air Base in June of 1942. It was deactivated as an active military base in 1968, when it was taken over by the Wisconsin Air National Guard. It was named in honor of Lieutenant Thomas L. Truax, a Wisconsin native, who was killed in a P-40 training accident in November 1941. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken & Lisa" <KL0914(at)cogeco.ca>
Subject: Piet floats
Date: Jun 18, 2004
Just had this e.mailed to me, these are on e.bay. Plans for floats that could be used on a Piet! E.Bay Item number: 2482304738 Ken Gn1 2992 Canada. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gnwac(at)cs.com
Date: Jun 18, 2004
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Greg Menoche with wife, Terri and two boys Garrett (11) and Tyler (9). We'll be attending for the first time. Looking forward to it. Departing from BWI Friday morning, thru DTW to MSN with NWA. Leaving Monday morning. Staying in Janesville, Hampton Inn, and renting a car. Working on the Piet. Is the there a schedule of events and a soccer or softball for the kids? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Anderson" <piet4ken(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Brodhead 2004 roll call
Date: Jun 19, 2004
Ken & Mary Anderson Driving the Winnebago from Imperial Mo. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 roll call Just out of curiosity. Who is planning to attend? Name __________________ Flying or driving _____________ Aircraft _______________ Departure point of origin _____________ Steve Eldredge (solo) Flying 1997 Pietenpol Aircamper A-65 Spanish Fork Utah Steve E ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darrel E. Jones" <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
<009c01c45588$9b959040$0301a8c0@Domain>
Subject: Re: Broadhead Roll Call
Date: Jun 19, 2004
Chris, Frank said that it is the original Hisso radiator. Darrel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Broadhead Roll Call > > A hisso Jenny would be good to see! > > Does it have the Hisso radiator that is round at the bottom? > > Chris > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 20, 2004
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 06/18/04
Hey, Fellas! (and gals, too, if any), I have read everything I have about wood, and except for one comment that hardwoods are mainly used in block form, I can find nothing about the selection and use of hardwood. I am particularly wondering about the two pieces of white ash in the fuselage, between the landing gear fittings. The plans specify 3/4 X 2" cross members at the floor level. How do you select the wood for these pieces...quarter sawn, vertical grain, yadda, yadda, yadda or what? Could you substitute oak? I'd eally appreciate the help of anyone who has dealt with this problem. Thanks in advance. Don Cooley Fairfield, CA P.S. Wish I could join you at Brodhead, maybe next year! DC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 20, 2004
Subject: Gussets and plywood question
Hello. As I previously said, Im from Argentina. Here is almost impossible to get 1/16 plywood, my choices are buy it from Aircraft Spruce, Wicks, etc.(really expensive), custom made plywood (we do have birch sheets, about 0,6mm or .0236 inches) or use 1/8 cedar marine plywood (very cheap, 17 dollars for a 7' x 5,25 sheet) for the ribs gussets. I know that 1/8 has been previously used but, would this add to much weight? What do you think? Another question. Im able to buy 1/4 cedar plywood for the fuselage floor, but this is just 3 ply. Could that work anyway? Thanks. Santiago Morete --------------------------------- Internet gratis y que funciona! Tres nuevas ciudades con nmeros locales: Escobar, Zrate, Campana Qu espers para navegar bien y rpido? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Gussets and plywood question
Date: Jun 20, 2004
1/8 plywood for the rib gussets will not add any appreciable weight. Beware of any changes this may require of the metal fittings for the drag/anti-drag fittings. If the 1/4 cedar plywood you have is also marine grade plywood it will work just fine. Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 12:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gussets and plywood question Hello. As I previously said, I=B4m from Argentina. Here is almost impossible to get 1/16 plywood, my choices are buy it from Aircraft Spruce, Wicks, etc.(really expensive), custom made plywood (we do have birch sheets, about 0,6mm or .0236 inches) or use 1/8 cedar marine plywood (very cheap, 17 dollars for a 7' x 5,25=B4 sheet) for the ribs gussets. I know that 1/8 has been previously used but, would this add to much weight? What do you think? Another question. I=B4m able to buy 1/4 cedar plywood for the fuselage floor, but this is just 3 ply. Could that work anyway? Thanks. Santiago Morete Internet gratis =A1y que funciona! Tres nuevas ciudades con n=FAmeros locales: Escobar, Z=E1rate, Campana =BFQu=E9 esper=E1s para navegar bien y r=E1pido? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Gussets and plywood question
Date: Jun 20, 2004
Santiago, You may want to investigate using fiber/cardboard. You'd have to research it, but my 83 yearold AP mentor tells me that many of the old certifiied aricraft used like a fiber (actually paper I think) board, as gusset material. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 1:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gussets and plywood question Hello. As I previously said, I=B4m from Argentina. Here is almost impossible to get 1/16 plywood, my choices are buy it from Aircraft Spruce, Wicks, etc.(really expensive), custom made plywood (we do have birch sheets, about 0,6mm or .0236 inches) or use 1/8 cedar marine plywood (very cheap, 17 dollars for a 7' x 5,25=B4 sheet) for the ribs gussets. I know that 1/8 has been previously used but, would this add to much weight? What do you think? Another question. I=B4m able to buy 1/4 cedar plywood for the fuselage floor, but this is just 3 ply. Could that work anyway? Thanks. Santiago Morete Internet gratis =A1y que funciona! Tres nuevas ciudades con n=FAmeros locales: Escobar, Z=E1rate, Campana =BFQu=E9 esper=E1s para navegar bien y r=E1pido? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Gussets and plywood question
Date: Jun 20, 2004
Why can't we ship it to you? Maybe cut a sheet up into 2" or 4" strips or 8 1/2 X 11" pieces and mail them? Or even 11" X 17"....both "standard" envelope sizes.... I know that's not optimum and there will be some waste, but a bit of planning could eliminate a lot of that waste..... I know that doesn't help with the leading edge covering maybe this approach would work? Let me know if that works for you and I'll go get some, cut it into strips (or something like 8X10" pieces) and mail it.....I would think that your total cost would be MUCH less than the Aircraft Spruce/Wicks route..... Am I missing something? Seems like a good approach..... Jim in Plano..... ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 8:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gussets and plywood question Santiago, You may want to investigate using fiber/cardboard. You'd have to research it, but my 83 yearold AP mentor tells me that many of the old certifiied aricraft used like a fiber (actually paper I think) board, as gusset material. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 1:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gussets and plywood question Hello. As I previously said, I=B4m from Argentina. Here is almost impossible to get 1/16 plywood, my choices are buy it from Aircraft Spruce, Wicks, etc.(really expensive), custom made plywood (we do have birch sheets, about 0,6mm or .0236 inches) or use 1/8 cedar marine plywood (very cheap, 17 dollars for a 7' x 5,25=B4 sheet) for the ribs gussets. I know that 1/8 has been previously used but, would this add to much weight? What do you think? Another question. I=B4m able to buy 1/4 cedar plywood for the fuselage floor, but this is just 3 ply. Could that work anyway? Thanks. Santiago Morete Internet gratis =A1y que funciona! Tres nuevas ciudades con n=FAmeros locales: Escobar, Z=E1rate, Campana ________________________________________________________________________________
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 20, 2004
Subject: 4 inch wider fuselage advice
Have my fuselage sides done (long fuselage with 6 inches added to the front) and am about to start joining them. Have read all the forum messages related to fuselage widening and plan on making mine 4 inches wider to give me about 24 inches inside rear cockpit width. Before I take the big step does anyone know of any problems with this? Other than extra cost and weight? Thanks Rick Holland Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: 4 inch wider fuselage advice
Date: Jun 20, 2004
I widened mine 2" at the rear cockpit, 1" at the firewall. My opinion is there is no need to widen the fuse 4" from the rear cockpit all the way up to the firewall. I'd say go 4" at the rear pit and maybe 2" at firewall. That still gives you the width you want where you need it (rear pit) but saves a little weight by tapering it up to the front. The front pit would be wider by about 3" or so... still pretty good. Also, consider that the center wing section needs to get widened as well. The landing gear has to be taken into consideration as well. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: At7000ft(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 8:28 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 4 inch wider fuselage advice Have my fuselage sides done (long fuselage with 6 inches added to the front) and am about to start joining them. Have read all the forum messages related to fuselage widening and plan on making mine 4 inches wider to give me about 24 inches inside rear cockpit width. Before I take the big step does anyone know of any problems with this? Other than extra cost and weight? Thanks Rick Holland Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al Latham" <geebeed(at)grm.net>
<001501c456cf$05be8ed0$6401a8c0@FAMILY>
Subject: Re: Gussets and plywood question
Date: Jun 20, 2004
Aeronca used cardboard gussets and years ago if you wanted to fly a set of these wings you had to replace them with plywood as they disintegrated over time. Al Latham ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 9:01 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gussets and plywood question Why can't we ship it to you? Maybe cut a sheet up into 2" or 4" strips or 8 1/2 X 11" pieces and mail them? Or even 11" X 17"....both "standard" envelope sizes.... I know that's not optimum and there will be some waste, but a bit of planning could eliminate a lot of that waste..... I know that doesn't help with the leading edge covering maybe this approach would work? Let me know if that works for you and I'll go get some, cut it into strips (or something like 8X10" pieces) and mail it.....I would think that your total cost would be MUCH less than the Aircraft Spruce/Wicks route..... Am I missing something? Seems like a good approach..... Jim in Plano..... ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 8:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gussets and plywood question Santiago, You may want to investigate using fiber/cardboard. You'd have to research it, but my 83 yearold AP mentor tells me that many of the old certifiied aricraft used like a fiber (actually paper I think) board, as gusset material. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 1:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gussets and plywood question Hello. As I previously said, I=B4m from Argentina. Here is almost impossible to get 1/16 plywood, my choices are buy it from Aircraft Spruce, Wicks, etc.(really expensive), custom made plywood (we do have birch sheets, about 0,6mm or .0236 inches) or use 1/8 cedar marine plywood (very cheap, 17 dollars for a 7' x 5,25=B4 sheet) for the ribs gussets. I know that 1/8 has been previously used but, would this add to much weight? What do you think? Another question. I=B4m able to buy 1/4 cedar plywood for the fuselage floor, but this is just 3 ply. Could that work anyway? Thanks. Santiago Morete Internet gratis =A1y que funciona! Tres nuevas ciudades con n=FAmeros locales: Escobar, Z=E1rate, Campana =BFQu=E9 esper=E1s para navegar bien y r=E1pido? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 20, 2004
Subject: Re: Gussets and plywood question
Hi Jim...My 2 cents...I understand that on the early Piets, Bernie used old campaign posters to cover the leading edge. Anybody got anything on this? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Gussets and plywood question
Date: Jun 20, 2004
It was actually oatmeal boxes...... ----- Original Message ----- From: Carbarvo(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 4:14 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gussets and plywood question Hi Jim...My 2 cents...I understand that on the early Piets, Bernie used old campaign posters to cover the leading edge. Anybody got anything on this? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 20, 2004
Subject: Gussets and plywood question
Ok. Thanks Jim!!! That sounds very interesting. I dont want abuse of your generosity, but, if you can send me these little pieces, I will appreciate it very much. If you agree, I will contact you at your e-mail address. I am not really worried about the leading edge plywood cover. Probably I will use aluminum or just install false ribs (like in that beautiful yellow piet). Thanks again. Santiago --------------------------------- Internet gratis y que funciona! Tres nuevas ciudades con nmeros locales: Escobar, Zrate, Campana Qu espers para navegar bien y rpido? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2004
From: Robert Doebler <doebler(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Fwd: FOR SALE ROTAX 503 DCDI , prop,etc.
Note: forwarded message attached. Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 15:52:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Doebler <doebler(at)sbcglobal.net> Subject: FOR SALE ROTAX 503 DCDI , prop,etc. --0-1507143955-1087685522=:29157 I'm selling a Rotax 503DCDI with: electric start/oil injection/b-gear box/remote choke/throttle & choke cables/Rotax oil tank with low oil sensor, and indicator/3 blade Ivoprop, ground adjustable, 62" prop/lord mounts/muffler/shielded ignition wires/ignition switch/kill switch/upgraded regulator/2-5 gallon fuel tanks/solid-state fuel sensor with gauge/dual EGT/dual CHT/mini tach& hour meter/gel battery/manuals. Total hours are 51. I haven't flown in a couple of years, so decided to part out firestar II. No crash damage or abuse.It is still on ultralight, so come see and hear it run. Local only, too heavy to ship. Appoximately 35 miles NorthWest of Los Angeles, Ca. Bob Doebler 66 Dapplegray Rd. Bell Canyon, Ca. 91307 1-818-348-7075 doebler(at)sbcglobal.net --0-1507143955-1087685522=:29157 I'm selling a Rotax 503DCDI with: electric start/oil injection/b-gear box/remote choke/throttle choke cables/Rotax oil tank with low oil sensor, and indicator/3 blade Ivoprop, ground adjustable, 62" prop/lord mounts/muffler/shielded ignition wires/ignition switch/kill switch/upgraded regulator/2-5 gallon fuel tanks/solid-state fuel sensor with gauge/dual EGT/dual CHT/mini tach hour meter/gel battery/manuals. Total hours are 51. I haven't flown in a couple of years, so decided to part out firestar II. No crash damage or abuse.It is still on ultralight, so come see and hear it run. Local only, too heavy to ship. Appoximately 35 miles NorthWest of Los Angeles, Ca. Bob Doebler 66 Dapplegray Rd. Bell Canyon, Ca. 91307 1-818-348-7075 doebler(at)sbcglobal.net --0-1507143955-1087685522=:29157-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2004
From: Jim Cooper <blugoos1(at)direcway.com>
Subject: 4 inch wider fuselage advice
I'm no expert on these matters, but we bought someone else's GN1 project with a welded 4130 steel tube fuselage that had been widened unevenly, and the rear cockpit is somewhat wider than the front cockpit. When attaching a Cub J3 landing gear that we bought seperately, we found that landing gear was not even with the center line, and the wheels were towed in toward the front. From our best information, it seems that the wheels should parallel the center line. As a result my partner, who is more of an expert than I has had to make adjustments by adding about ten pounds of square tubing under the fuselage to reposition the brackets that hold the landing gear to straighten the wheels out so that they are aligned with the center line. Hopefully this may help others avoid making the same mistake. Jim Cooper ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 06/18/04
Date: Jun 21, 2004
Hi Don, If you look in the archives you can probably find several instances of this discussion. But the short version is - the reason Ash is specified is for its shock absorption qualities (the same reason Ash is used for ax handles, baseball bats and gymnastics parallel bars). Those planks tend to absorb the shock of landing loads if your landings are less than perfect. Besides, Ash does not split or crack easily. I would not substitute Oak. I found ash available in 1-1/4" thick planks 6' long at a local lumberyard. When I asked if it was white ash, they just laughed and said "Ash is ash". I don't know if there is a specific lumber known as white ash. I selected pieces with the grain as tight as I could find, and roughly parallel to the wide faces of the boards. It works nicely and doesn't splinter (another nice characteristic of ash which makes it ideal for tool handles). I don't remember what I paid for it but I recall it wasn't cheap, and that it cost more than Oak. If at all possible I would find and use ash for this application. Besides, it is pretty. Jack Phillips Still painting NX899JP in Raleigh, NC > > From: ADonJr(at)aol.com > Date: 2004/06/20 Sun AM 12:07:20 EDT > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 06/18/04 > > Hey, Fellas! (and gals, too, if any), > I have read everything I have about wood, and except for one comment that > hardwoods are mainly used in block form, I can find nothing about the > selection and use of hardwood. I am particularly wondering about the two pieces of > white ash in the fuselage, between the landing gear fittings. The plans > specify 3/4 X 2" cross members at the floor level. > How do you select the wood for these pieces...quarter sawn, vertical > grain, yadda, yadda, yadda or what? Could you substitute oak? I'd eally > appreciate the help of anyone who has dealt with this problem. Thanks in advance. > Don Cooley > Fairfield, CA > > P.S. Wish I could join you at Brodhead, maybe next year! DC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WPTCorp(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 21, 2004
Subject: Prop?
Would someone help me a little. I live in Wyoming 5250 Elevation and have a 110 hp piet. with a blower fan motor no starter, hand prop only. Have 65/30 home made wood prop but am only getting 2250 rpms static and would like a little higher rpms. Was looking at a Warp drive but was told that a three blade was the only one they would recommend. I just want the best bang for my buck. Thanks David ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Borodent(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 21, 2004
Subject: Re: cabane X brace cables
Has anyone considered or done the folowing? Comments welcome I am installing brackets for cabane struts My concern is, I believe its possible for a piet to nose over and land upside down - with the wing acting as your roll cage. Wouldnt it be an improvement instead of having the X support ( from bottom of say rear left cabane to top of rear right cabane and visa versa ) instead of cables and turnbuckles - use strut sectrions or tube or rod. Wouldnt this make a much stronger roll cage?? Is my concern about roll over exagerated?? Of course this has a small weight penallty Henry Williams ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com>
Subject: Re: cabane X brace cables
Date: Jun 22, 2004
Henry, It sounds reasonable, but I would think that the cabane struts are be plenty strong to hold up the weight of the airplane by themselves. All that a diagonal strut or cables do is control racking. The diagonal tube would be a bit of a pain to fit, and wouldn't really add much compression strength in straight-forward roll-over. I don't think your concern about rollover is exaggerated--I like the idea of having that big wing spar over my head too. Gene Hubbard Waiting to put the wings on in San Diego -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Borodent(at)aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cabane X brace cables Has anyone considered or done the folowing? Comments welcome I am installing brackets for cabane struts My concern is, I believe its possible for a piet to nose over and land upside down - with the wing acting as your roll cage. Wouldnt it be an improvement instead of having the X support ( from bottom of say rear left cabane to top of rear right cabane and visa versa ) instead of cables and turnbuckles - use strut sectrions or tube or rod. Wouldnt this make a much stronger roll cage?? Is my concern about roll over exagerated?? Of course this has a small weight penallty Henry Williams ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2004
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
Subject: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets
Instead of building 4 bottom landing gear attachment brackets and then adding reinforcement straps and welding them between each pair of brackets, has anyone tried making one-piece straps going the full width of the fuselage which incorporate the brackets? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
and brackets
Subject: Re: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets
Date: Jun 22, 2004
It's just that anything that you build/fit to the fuse before fabric, After you cover, the dimensions change and the fit will be off. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: <At7000ft(at)aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets > > Instead of building 4 bottom landing gear attachment brackets and then adding reinforcement straps and welding them between each pair of brackets, has anyone tried making one-piece straps going the full width of the fuselage which incorporate the brackets? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
and brackets
Subject: Re: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets
Date: Jun 22, 2004
That is sort of what I did on mine. I built the solid axle version and this method might not work for the split axle gear, but I made the straps run under the fuselage and incorporated the fitting that the lift strut attaches to on each end of the strap. The lift strut fittings were actually a sandwich made of three pieces. the top piece was a lug welded to the outer landing gear attachment fitting. The middle piece of the sandwich was the end of the underbelly strap, and the lower piece of the sandwich was the end of the undercarriage bracing wire fitting. This ties the landing gear and lift struts together and should anything break, the airplane is suspended on the steel straps running under the fuselage. See attached photo showing the "sandwich" while the fitting was under construction. I apologize for the long download. Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC > > From: At7000ft(at)aol.com > Date: 2004/06/22 Tue PM 04:47:30 EDT > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets > > > Instead of building 4 bottom landing gear attachment brackets and then adding reinforcement straps and welding them between each pair of brackets, has anyone tried making one-piece straps going the full width of the fuselage which incorporate the brackets? > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flywrite(at)erols.com" <flywrite(at)erols.com>
Subject: Brodhead
Date: Jun 22, 2004
Dick and Georgeen Carden plan to attend. Flying into Madison, renting a car for Brodhead (Fri-Sun)and then to OSH. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: cabane X brace cables
Date: Jun 22, 2004
Henry Don't use either . How are you going to get in the front hole. Use pipe from upper engin mount to top of front cabine. Dale Johnson Mpls. > [Original Message] > From: <Borodent(at)aol.com> > To: > Date: 6/21/2004 9:49:43 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cabane X brace cables > > > Has anyone considered or done the folowing? Comments welcome > I am installing brackets for cabane struts > My concern is, I believe its possible for a piet to nose over and land upside > down - with the wing acting as your roll cage. Wouldnt it be an improvement > instead of having the X support ( from bottom of say rear left cabane to top > of rear right cabane and visa versa ) instead of cables and turnbuckles - use > strut sectrions or tube or rod. > Wouldnt this make a much stronger roll cage?? > Is my concern about roll over exagerated?? > Of course this has a small weight penallty > Henry Williams > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2004
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
and brackets
Subject: Re: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets
Thanks guys, this was just the kind of thing I was thinking of doing. Rick H. Colorado >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is sort of what I did on mine. I built the solid axle version and this method might not work for the split axle gear, but I made the straps run under the fuselage and incorporated the fitting that the lift strut attaches to on each end of the strap. The lift strut fittings were actually a sandwich made of three pieces. the top piece was a lug welded to the outer landing gear attachment fitting. The middle piece of the sandwich was the end of the underbelly strap, and the lower piece of the sandwich was the end of the undercarriage bracing wire fitting. This ties the landing gear and lift struts together and should anything break, the airplane is suspended on the steel straps running under the fuselage. See attached photo showing the "sandwich" while the fitting was under construction. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Brodhead attendance
Date: Jun 22, 2004
Count us in: Barry Davis Mike Annas Harold Johnson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
<001501c456cf$05be8ed0$6401a8c0@FAMILY>
Subject: Re: Gussets and plywood question
Date: Jun 22, 2004
For what it's worth -- a 1/2 sheet of 1/16 birch is about 4 lbs -- cut up into 12" squares, it's a package 1" thick -- It will ship to Argentina in about 10 days for $26 via "Airmail Letter Post". Mike (who once shipped a bicycle wheel to Slovenia!) Pretty Prairie, KS ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 9:01 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gussets and plywood question Why can't we ship it to you? Maybe cut a sheet up into 2" or 4" strips or 8 1/2 X 11" pieces and mail them? Or even 11" X 17"....both "standard" envelope sizes.... I know that's not optimum and there will be some waste, but a bit of planning could eliminate a lot of that waste..... I know that doesn't help with the leading edge covering maybe this approach would work? Let me know if that works for you and I'll go get some, cut it into strips (or something like 8X10" pieces) and mail it.....I would think that your total cost would be MUCH less than the Aircraft Spruce/Wicks route..... Am I missing something? Seems like a good approach..... Jim in Plano..... ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 8:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gussets and plywood question Santiago, You may want to investigate using fiber/cardboard. You'd have to research it, but my 83 yearold AP mentor tells me that many of the old certifiied aricraft used like a fiber (actually paper I think) board, as gusset material. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 1:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gussets and plywood question Hello. As I previously said, Im from Argentina. Here is almost impossible to get 1/16 plywood, my choices are buy it from Aircraft Spruce, Wicks, etc.(really expensive), custom made plywood (we do have birch sheets, about 0,6mm or .0236 inches) or use 1/8 cedar marine plywood (very cheap, 17 dollars for a 7' x 5,25 sheet) for the ribs gussets. I know that 1/8 has been previously used but, would this add to much weight? What do you think? Another question. Im able to buy 1/4 cedar plywood for the fuselage floor, but this is just 3 ply. Could that work anyway? Thanks. Santiago Morete Internet gratis y que funciona! Tres nuevas ciudades con nmeros locales: Escobar, Zrate, Campana Qu espers para navegar bien y rpido? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
<001501c456cf$05be8ed0$6401a8c0@FAMILY>
Subject: Re: Gussets and plywood question
Date: Jun 22, 2004
For what it's worth -- a 1/2 sheet of 1/16 birch is about 4 lbs -- cut up into 12" squares, it's a package 1" thick -- It will ship to Argentina in about 10 days for $26 via "Airmail Letter Post". Mike (who once shipped a bicycle wheel to Slovenia!) Pretty Prairie, KS ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 9:01 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gussets and plywood question Why can't we ship it to you? Maybe cut a sheet up into 2" or 4" strips or 8 1/2 X 11" pieces and mail them? Or even 11" X 17"....both "standard" envelope sizes.... I know that's not optimum and there will be some waste, but a bit of planning could eliminate a lot of that waste..... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Laurits Larsen" <pietlars(at)earthlink.net>
and brackets
Subject: Re: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets
Date: Jun 22, 2004
Hi: Yes, it has been done before. Thats what I did; routed out a groove in the bottom of the ash cross pieces and installed the assemblies before I put the luan plywood floor piece in place. This reminds me of another method re the floor. I temporarily attached the ply with screws and fitted in place; the marked out the locations of the rudder bar post and the front rudder pedals and installed them on the ply before putting it in permanently. One mistake I made was making the LG brackets per Bernies dimensions; should have made the lift strut lugs longer. Just another way of getting there. See ya'll in Brodhead. Lou Larsen ----- Original Message ----- From: <At7000ft(at)aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets > > Instead of building 4 bottom landing gear attachment brackets and then adding reinforcement straps and welding them between each pair of brackets, has anyone tried making one-piece straps going the full width of the fuselage which incorporate the brackets? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
and brackets
Subject: Re: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets
Date: Jun 22, 2004
Read and head! Almost ALL of the lugs and tabs should be made a little longer. You will save yourself a lot of grief. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurits Larsen" > > One mistake I made was making the LG brackets per Bernies dimensions; > should have made the lift strut lugs longer. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
<000601c458bc$86f9f2c0$0200a8c0@ATO> and brackets
Subject: Re: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets
Date: Jun 22, 2004
That should say "Read and HEED"....... ----- Original Message ----- From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets > > Read and head! Almost ALL of the lugs and > tabs should be made a little longer. > You will save yourself a lot of grief. > > Greg Cardinal > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Laurits Larsen" > > > > > One mistake I made was making the LG > brackets per Bernies dimensions; > > should have made the lift strut lugs > longer. > > > > ============================= Forum - through the Contributions banner ads or any other Matronics Forums. > ============================= http://www.matronics.com/chat > ============================= pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/subscription http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/search http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list http://www.matronics.com/chat http://www.matronics.com/archives http://www.matronics.com/photoshare http://www.matronics.com/pietenpol-list http://www.matronics.com/emaillists http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ============================= > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Shirts for sale
Date: Jun 22, 2004
Guys, Bill Weeden still has some nice shirts for sale. A sample picture of the back of one of the shirt types is below. 15 bucks each and he has already "lost his shirt" on these. I just got five. Chris Chris, OK, here's what I have left. There will probably never be any more after these are gone. All are adult sizes. SMALL - 1 MEDIUM - 10 LARGE - 13 I'll send you as many as you want. $15 each. I can ship one shirt Priority Mail for $3.85. Two shirts comes to just under $5 to ship. I don't think I've shipped more than two at a time. However many you want, I will box them up and have it weighed. Just let me know. Thanks, Bill p.s. I also have four of the SCOUT shirts left, all are size LARGE. Printed in three colors on the front only. They are $12 each. billrobin(at)wekz.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: signing off for a while
Date: Jun 22, 2004
Hello, Pieters- In preparation for heading out for a week's vacation to celebrate our 35th wedding anniversary, I'll be signing off the Piet list for a while. We leave the first of July, so I'll get back on the list when I get back and see if I've gotten Corky's Piet ferried down to Texas to start its new life here! Thanks... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
<000601c458bc$86f9f2c0$0200a8c0@ATO> <000a01c458c7$15f43a80$0200a8c0@ATO> and brackets
Subject: Re: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets
Date: Jun 22, 2004
Please be more careful with your spelling!!! My ex-wife is a RED HEAD....... ----- Original Message ----- From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets > > That should say "Read and HEED"....... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 7:53 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: One piece > landing gear reinforcement straps and > brackets > > > > > > > Read and head! Almost ALL of the lugs and > > tabs should be made a little longer. > > You will save yourself a lot of grief. > > > > Greg Cardinal > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Laurits Larsen" > > > > > > > > One mistake I made was making the LG > > brackets per Bernies dimensions; > > > should have made the lift strut lugs > > longer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================= > Forum - > through the Contributions > banner ads or any other > Matronics Forums. > > > ============================= > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > > ============================= > pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/search > http://www.matronics.com/chat > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > ============================= > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Shirts for sale
Date: Jun 23, 2004
Chris, Do you have contact info for Bill Weeden? Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka To: Pietenpol Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 9:10 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shirts for sale Guys, Bill Weeden still has some nice shirts for sale. A sample picture of the back of one of the shirt types is below. 15 bucks each and he has already "lost his shirt" on these. I just got five. Chris Chris, OK, here's what I have left. There will probably never be any more after these are gone. All are adult sizes. SMALL - 1 MEDIUM - 10 LARGE - 13 X-LARGE - 16 I'll send you as many as you want. $15 each. I can ship one shirt Priority Mail for $3.85. Two shirts comes to just under $5 to ship. I don't think I've shipped more than two at a time. However many you want, I will box them up and have it weighed. Just let me know. Thanks, Bill p.s. I also have four of the SCOUT shirts left, all are size LARGE. Printed in three colors on the front only. They are $12 each. billrobin(at)wekz.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Jun 23, 2004
Subject: Broadhead 2004
I'm about 75% certain that I'll be making the trip to Broadhead. Name: Sterling Brooks Mode of travel: Car (yuk) but someday in an aircamper Traveling from: Central Texas (Knot2Shabby Airport, 5TA6 San Antonio Sectional) I have a Pietenpol rebuild project... A GN-1 Project A Continental A-80 engine overhaul project ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Brodhead
Date: Jun 23, 2004
From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
Any chance a set of plans will be available at Brodhead for reference, for those coming through the TSA airport swamp with little more than a camera, tape measure, notepad, and toothbrush? Mark Hodgson ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Brodhead
Date: Jun 23, 2004
From: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Mark, I can bring a set of "original" and GN1 Jack Textor Des Moines Any chance a set of plans will be available at Brodhead for reference, for those coming through the TSA airport swamp with little more than a camera, tape measure, notepad, and toothbrush? Mark Hodgson == == == == ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Jun 23, 2004
Subject: Re: Brodhead
I can bring both of my sets of plans for the Pietenpol and GN-1 if needed. Please contact me directly at: kts5ta6(at)wmconnect.com Sterlling Brooks Knot 2 Shabby Airport 5TA6 San Antonio Sectional ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 23, 2004
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
and brackets
Subject: Re: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets
Thats interesting, you attached your reinforcement strap between the ash and the plywood floor? Rather than to the bottom of the ply floor? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, it has been done before. Thats what I did; routed out a groove in the bottom of the ash cross pieces and installed the assemblies before I put the luan plywood floor piece in place. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Laurits Larsen" <pietlars(at)earthlink.net>
and brackets
Subject: Re: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets
Date: Jun 23, 2004
Hi, Yes, by routing the groove, the ply was flush on the fuse structure. Lou larsen ----- Original Message ----- From: <At7000ft(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets > > Thats interesting, you attached your reinforcement strap between the ash and the plywood floor? Rather than to the bottom of the ply floor? > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Yes, it has been done before. > > Thats what I did; routed out a groove in the bottom of the ash cross pieces > and installed the assemblies before I put the luan plywood floor piece in > place. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Jun 24, 2004
Subject: Re: Brodhead
Mark: I'll not only bring my plans, but I'll probably trailer either my GN-1 project or my never flown but FSDO signed-off Pietenpol to Broadhead. The Piet (Frankenstein) had to be stripped of fabric and disassembled because the builder failed to paint and prime most of the metal structural parts and didn't use any gusetts in the fuselage. I found out after I purchased it when we started an extensive annual inspection. Call it the school of hard knocks. I'd like for other builders to scrutinize the Piet and point out more defects that I need to address. Can anyone advise of RV facilities near Broadhead? I might be coming in a motorhome. Thanks, Sterling Brooks 5TA6, San Antonio Sectional ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Fw: [RAA-N] Airplanes on the cheap
1.0 FAKE_HELO_SHAW_CA Host HELO did not match rDNS: shaw.ca > > The EAA Homebuilt Council wants to showcase at AirVenture recently built > experimentals that were built for $10,000, $20,000 and $30,000. If you > know of anyone who has built an airplane that fits one of these > categories who would like to be in the spotlight there and in a future > issue of Sport Aviation, have them contact Wally Anderson at > WALLYANDER(at)earthlink.net. This entire lineup can be filled with Pietenpols. Right!! Of course we shouldn't take unfair advantage:-) :-) :-) Clif ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
and brackets
Subject: Re: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets
Date: Jun 25, 2004
Jack, What thickness of metal did you use for this and are there more pictures available? Thanks Alex Sloan ----- Original Message ----- From: <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets That is sort of what I did on mine. I built the solid axle version and this method might not work for the split axle gear, but I made the straps run under the fuselage and incorporated the fitting that the lift strut attaches to on each end of the strap. The lift strut fittings were actually a sandwich made of three pieces. the top piece was a lug welded to the outer landing gear attachment fitting. The middle piece of the sandwich was the end of the underbelly strap, and the lower piece of the sandwich was the end of the undercarriage bracing wire fitting. This ties the landing gear and lift struts together and should anything break, the airplane is suspended on the steel straps running under the fuselage. See attached photo showing the "sandwich" while the fitting was under construction. I apologize for the long download. Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC > > From: At7000ft(at)aol.com > Date: 2004/06/22 Tue PM 04:47:30 EDT > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: One piece landing gear reinforcement straps and brackets > > > Instead of building 4 bottom landing gear attachment brackets and then adding reinforcement straps and welding them between each pair of brackets, has anyone tried making one-piece straps going the full width of the fuselage which incorporate the brackets? > > ---- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 27, 2004
Subject: Space Ship One slide show
MessageAwesome Space Ship One slide show http://www.rokits.org/gallery/slideshow.php?set_albumName=x-prize ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: The Annual Inspection - Powerplant; a new video
Date: Jun 28, 2004
I don't normally spam on this list, but I've been working on this video for about a year, its my first one, and I'm kinda proud of it. So here goes: THE ANNUAL INSPECTION - POWERPLANT 55 minutes Follow Westwood College of Aviation A&P instructors Tim Guerrera and Vaughn Dowell through a step by step demonstration of an annual inspection of typical Lycoming 0-360 powerplant section. This video explains every step of the process from an initial AD search to the final log entries. Each procedure is detailed including compression check, ignition timing, spark plug service, exhaust pressure check, oil change, fuel system, propeller, electrical system, etc..... , showing the proper techniques along with plenty of professional hints and tips. A final segment details safety wiring techniques as used throughout the powerplant section. Most of this video was filmed at Westwood College in Denver using a Piper Archer, however a few segments were done locally in Granby, CO with my RV-6A and hangarmate Dave Cook's RV-6. available now in DVD and VHS from Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com/annual_inspection_powerplant.htm 800 780-4115 ...and to sweeten up the spam, mention "Matronics" when you order and get 25% off through the end of June. Thanks, Andy RV-6A N-5060 flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Jun 28, 2004
Subject: Speaking of video
I've spent 30+ years in television, and as I begin the reassembly process of the Continental engine that will be installed in my Pietenpol (Frankenstein) I'm wondering if anyone would be interested in seeing the rebuild process and installation? To limit liability, the video would be marketed as an "entertainment" video. My dad has an A&P license and retired with 6 type ratings and is actually doing my overhaul. He overhauled my Lycoming 0-320 E2A when he was 82 and he is now fast approaching 85 (not to worry, his brain is still sharp) and I learned a great deal from him when he rebuilt my Lycoming. If anyone doesn't know what plasti-gauge is, maybe this would be an informative video project? Ever seen silk thread used in putting the engine case back together? I didn't until my father rebuilt my Lycoming. The engine that came in Frankenstein (despite having been represented as having only 5 hours since TBO, was a basket-case and we had to tear it down. The engine case was sent to DIVCO and had major problems and the accessory case had to go to Drake for a rebuild too. I had to buy a new camshaft from Sacramento Sky Ranch at nearly $500. The cam that was in my "newly rebuilt engine" was shot. I'm taking the crankshaft to a local machine shop due to dwindling funds and not having any confidence in the old buzzard that sold me the plane. I'd like to send the crankshaft to Aircraft Specialties Services, but this is getting expensive and my engine won't be certified anyway. If there is enough interest, I'll produce a video. If not, I'll mow my runway and drink a cerveza. (P.S. I produced Avid Aircraft's Marketing videos in the early 1990s and I also produced the Mosler Factory engine installation video for their 82X engine. Also worked on a few gigs at the White House when President Reagan was there.) I'm looking forward to meeting everyone at Broadhead. www.sterlingbrooks.tv knot-2-shabby airport (5TA6) San Antonio Sectional ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 28, 2004
Subject: Re: Speaking of video
Sterling, I'm interested. Have you established an APBP? That's " anticipated pietenpol bargain price " Corky, just beginning the assembly of an A-65 for NX311CC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Speaking of video
Date: Jun 28, 2004
From: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Great idea Sterling, put me down for a copy. Hope to see you in Brodhead. Jack Textor Des Moines, IA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 29, 2004
Subject: Re: Speaking of Video
Sign me up, too! Sounds like a great help. Don Cooley ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 29, 2004
From: Richard Schreiber <schreib(at)netnitco.net>
(ax)
Subject: Turtle Deck Stringers
I have been trying to figure out the location of the turtle deck stringers, but it has me stumped. Should each of the stringers be perfectly straight form the front arch support aft of the rear seat to the horizontal stabilizer, or do they take on more of a curve as they get closer to the top fuselage longerons? I started out by constructing the front arch support and locating each of the stringer slots equidistant around the support. Using a string from the top of the front arch support to the horizontal stab, I determined the proper height and width of each of the remaining two turtle deck arch supports. I then constructed blank arch supports and placed them in the proper location. Using a chalk line I then determined the location of each of the stingers (I am using 9 insted of 7). Using this method the stringers are straight, but they are not spaced evenly around the arch support. I tried it again this time using dummy arch supports made of 1/8 plastic sheet. I spaced the stringers evenly around the arch, with the slot for the stringers cut on the radius of the arch. Doing it this way the stringers are evenly spaced, but they take on more of a bowed appearance as they get closer to the fuselage side. What is the correct spacing? Thanks, Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Turtle Deck Stringers
Date: Jun 29, 2004
Think about it, Rick. Unless the top longerons are EXACTLY straight from the front support to the rear support, then the stringers HAVE to be bowed. Now maybe the top one(s) can be straight but the ones closest to the top longerons will most likely be bowed some or even quite a bit..... Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Schreiber" <schreib(at)netnitco.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turtle Deck Stringers > > I have been trying to figure out the location of the turtle deck > stringers, but it has me stumped. Should each of the stringers be > perfectly straight form the front arch support aft of the rear seat to > the horizontal stabilizer, or do they take on more of a curve as they > get closer to the top fuselage longerons? I started out by constructing > the front arch support and locating each of the stringer slots > equidistant around the support. Using a string from the top of the front > arch support to the horizontal stab, I determined the proper height and > width of each of the remaining two turtle deck arch supports. I then > constructed blank arch supports and placed them in the proper location. > Using a chalk line I then determined the location of each of the > stingers (I am using 9 insted of 7). Using this method the stringers are > straight, but they are not spaced evenly around the arch support. I > tried it again this time using dummy arch supports made of 1/8 plastic > sheet. I spaced the stringers evenly around the arch, with the slot for > the stringers cut on the radius of the arch. Doing it this way the > stringers are evenly spaced, but they take on more of a bowed appearance > as they get closer to the fuselage side. > > What is the correct spacing? > > Thanks, > > Rick Schreiber > > Valparaiso, IN > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Turtle Deck Stringers
Date: Jun 30, 2004
Rick, I made mine dead straight from front to rear. It's the straight line of the stringer that will show though the fabric. Check out http://www.cpc-world.com for more info. Cheers Peter. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Schreiber Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turtle Deck Stringers I have been trying to figure out the location of the turtle deck stringers, but it has me stumped. Should each of the stringers be perfectly straight form the front arch support aft of the rear seat to the horizontal stabilizer, or do they take on more of a curve as they get closer to the top fuselage longerons? I started out by constructing the front arch support and locating each of the stringer slots equidistant around the support. Using a string from the top of the front arch support to the horizontal stab, I determined the proper height and width of each of the remaining two turtle deck arch supports. I then constructed blank arch supports and placed them in the proper location. Using a chalk line I then determined the location of each of the stingers (I am using 9 insted of 7). Using this method the stringers are straight, but they are not spaced evenly around the arch support. I tried it again this time using dummy arch supports made of 1/8 plastic sheet. I spaced the stringers evenly around the arch, with the slot for the stringers cut on the radius of the arch. Doing it this way the stringers are evenly spaced, but they take on more of a bowed appearance as they get closer to the fuselage side. What is the correct spacing? Thanks, Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Turtle Deck Stringers
Date: Jun 29, 2004
Rick, I made mine dead straight. The original plans called for those arches with notches in them, then I saw the ones that made the "broom". I opted for the broom, with each piece of a support a separate "stick" with a notch. With lots of sticks, and lots of clamps, you can support the stringers from front to back thru two stations by sighting along the stringers and adjusting the broom pieces till all is good. Then I marked each piece and outlined it with pencil, so i could be glued correctly. They say the judges at Oshkosh sight down the stringers for the "big prize" : ) walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Schreiber" <schreib(at)netnitco.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turtle Deck Stringers > > I have been trying to figure out the location of the turtle deck > stringers, but it has me stumped. Should each of the stringers be > perfectly straight form the front arch support aft of the rear seat to > the horizontal stabilizer, or do they take on more of a curve as they > get closer to the top fuselage longerons? I started out by constructing > the front arch support and locating each of the stringer slots > equidistant around the support. Using a string from the top of the front > arch support to the horizontal stab, I determined the proper height and > width of each of the remaining two turtle deck arch supports. I then > constructed blank arch supports and placed them in the proper location. > Using a chalk line I then determined the location of each of the > stingers (I am using 9 insted of 7). Using this method the stringers are > straight, but they are not spaced evenly around the arch support. I > tried it again this time using dummy arch supports made of 1/8 plastic > sheet. I spaced the stringers evenly around the arch, with the slot for > the stringers cut on the radius of the arch. Doing it this way the > stringers are evenly spaced, but they take on more of a bowed appearance > as they get closer to the fuselage side. > > What is the correct spacing? > > Thanks, > > Rick Schreiber > > Valparaiso, IN > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 30, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Peter Johnson's Web Site
G'Day, Peter and wow, what a fantastic web site you have developed and some great, great photos of your construction process. Your workmanship looks just as good too. Do you know Simon McCormack in Tasmania ? He's just finished a nice red and cream Ford Pietenpol Air Camper and is working on his PPL at the time. Downloading all your photos and such is well worth the wait. Your Corvair engine looks spotless ! Thanks for sharing some great information on the web for everyone here. Mike C. >Check out http://www.cpc-world.com for more info. > >Cheers > >Peter. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard >Schreiber >Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 9:53 AM >To: pietenpol list >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turtle Deck Stringers > > > >I have been trying to figure out the location of the turtle deck >stringers, but it has me stumped. Should each of the stringers be >perfectly straight form the front arch support aft of the rear seat to >the horizontal stabilizer, or do they take on more of a curve as they >get closer to the top fuselage longerons? I started out by constructing >the front arch support and locating each of the stringer slots >equidistant around the support. Using a string from the top of the front >arch support to the horizontal stab, I determined the proper height and >width of each of the remaining two turtle deck arch supports. I then >constructed blank arch supports and placed them in the proper location. >Using a chalk line I then determined the location of each of the >stingers (I am using 9 insted of 7). Using this method the stringers are >straight, but they are not spaced evenly around the arch support. I >tried it again this time using dummy arch supports made of 1/8 plastic >sheet. I spaced the stringers evenly around the arch, with the slot for >the stringers cut on the radius of the arch. Doing it this way the >stringers are evenly spaced, but they take on more of a bowed appearance >as they get closer to the fuselage side. > >What is the correct spacing? > >Thanks, > >Rick Schreiber > >Valparaiso, IN > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 30, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Turtle Deck Stringers
Richard-- I sent you a bunch of photos and sketches off line (so I wouldn't clutter up everyone's e-mail in-box here) that should help. Glad you posted your question--it is a good one. Photos speak more than a thousand words here. Mike C. in Ohio PS-- Valparasio is one of my favorite stops on the way to and from Wisconsin. A nice airport and good EAA Chapter that puts on a great under-the-tent bratwurst and burger lunch for anyone passing thru. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: broadhead hotels
Date: Jun 30, 2004
Can anybody recommend a local hotel or B&B around Broadhead? Thanks, Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: New student
Date: Jun 30, 2004
Hey everyone, As of next week my wife will have completed her training as a kindergarten teacher, and it becomes my turn to further my education. So, yesterday I paid my first instalment of my tuition in Pietenpol U. (I ordered the complete set of plans from Don Pietenpol). And, today I will place my order for the set of Bingelis books, as recommended (once or twice) by Professor Cuy. My question for the list is this: Are there any other "must haves" or even "should haves" that any of you would recommend to the novice builder. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 30, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: New student
Way to go, Bill ! The only other thing you might want to do it try to hit Bhead and take your tape measure, video camera, still camera, and notepad and see what you like, what you don't and what you'd like to incorporate and what you'd like to leave out. Thanks for the new title but I'm just a technician technically burning jet fuel and air all day long and torturing jet engine parts before they try them out in the real thing. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Turtle Deck Stringers
Date: Jun 30, 2004
here's the turtleneck page of my site. shows the entire process. http://imagedv.com/aircamper/Log/image-pages/10-27-02.htm DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Schreiber" <schreib(at)netnitco.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turtle Deck Stringers > > I have been trying to figure out the location of the turtle deck > stringers, but it has me stumped. Should each of the stringers be > perfectly straight form the front arch support aft of the rear seat to > the horizontal stabilizer, or do they take on more of a curve as they > get closer to the top fuselage longerons? I started out by constructing > the front arch support and locating each of the stringer slots > equidistant around the support. Using a string from the top of the front > arch support to the horizontal stab, I determined the proper height and > width of each of the remaining two turtle deck arch supports. I then > constructed blank arch supports and placed them in the proper location. > Using a chalk line I then determined the location of each of the > stingers (I am using 9 insted of 7). Using this method the stringers are > straight, but they are not spaced evenly around the arch support. I > tried it again this time using dummy arch supports made of 1/8 plastic > sheet. I spaced the stringers evenly around the arch, with the slot for > the stringers cut on the radius of the arch. Doing it this way the > stringers are evenly spaced, but they take on more of a bowed appearance > as they get closer to the fuselage side. > > What is the correct spacing? > > Thanks, > > Rick Schreiber > > Valparaiso, IN > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: New student
Date: Jun 30, 2004
Bill, Sounds like you are on track with the first important items. Next question, are you a member of EAA and if so do you belong to an EAA chapter? There is a wealth of help avaiable through the assistance of EAA Technical Counselors and from EAA Information Services. All free for the asking. Joe Norris in Information Services is an IA and very knowledgable on all phases of building and especially Pietenpols. A good man. Alex Sloan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: New student Hey everyone, As of next week my wife will have completed her training as a kindergarten teacher, and it becomes my turn to further my education. So, yesterday I paid my first instalment of my tuition in Pietenpol U. (I ordered the complete set of plans from Don Pietenpol). And, today I will place my order for the set of Bingelis books, as recommended (once or twice) by Professor Cuy. My question for the list is this: Are there any other "must haves" or even "should haves" that any of you would recommend to the novice builder. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: New student
Date: Jun 30, 2004
Alex, Thanks for the advice. Membership looks like a good idea, but chapters are few and far between on this side of the border (the Great White North). Hard to believe, but the closest chapter to Toronto (the biggest city in Canada) is about an hour's drive. Go figure. Thanks also to Jim Markle and Mike Cuy for the helpful advice. This is going to be (long term) fun! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alex Sloan Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New student Bill, Sounds like you are on track with the first important items. Next question, are you a member of EAA and if so do you belong to an EAA chapter? There is a wealth of help avaiable through the assistance of EAA Technical Counselors and from EAA Information Services. All free for the asking... Alex Sloan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: New student
Date: Jun 30, 2004
Dont forget a copy of Mike mCuys video for insperation. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: New student > > Hey everyone, > > As of next week my wife will have completed her training as a kindergarten > teacher, and it becomes my turn to further my education. So, yesterday I > paid my first instalment of my tuition in Pietenpol U. (I ordered the > complete set of plans from Don Pietenpol). And, today I will place my order


May 25, 2004 - June 30, 2004

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dw