Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dy
July 29, 2004 - August 09, 2004
| Subject: | Where do I get the spruce? |
Depending on where in Kentucky you are, you might want to drive to Iliinois
to Wicks and bring your wood back home yourself, rather than have them ship
it. Shipping the spars and the longerons and a couple of full size sheets
of plywood cost me nearly $200.
Good luck!
Jack
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Hargrove
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Where do I get the spruce?
Thanks for the responses! I live in Kentucky, so that may be a factor
with the shipping. I will definately order both the catalogs to check
out the prices. I have been poring over the plans, and my heart is
still beating fast just thinking about realizing this dream!
Ron
wrote:
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> I got most of mine from Wicks Aircraft Supply. Good wood, and fast
> shipping, but the shipping can cost nearly as much as the wood. Aircraft
> Spruce and Specialty is also good quality, but they are slow on shipping
> spruce, and they are expensive (so is Wick's).
>
> If you don't have catalogs from each of these companies, get them. Both
> have websites, and both offer free catalogs that have just about
everything
> you will need to build an airplane. Personally, I like Wicks better.
AS&S
> is just a little too pricey.
>
> Jack
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
> Hargrove
> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 6:39 PM
> To: Pietenpol-List(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Where do I get the spruce?
>
>
> Ok guys, I finally got my plans, and while I am studying them for awhile,
I
> was wondering if I could get some input on where to get the sitka spruce,
or
> even better, where NOT to get the wood? Also, does anyone out there have a
> slightly used builders manual they would be willing to part with at a
> reasonable price? Or is it available online somewhere?
> Many thanks,
> Ron
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.net" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Where do I get the spruce? |
Another option for you could be Mckormicks Lumber in Madison Wisconsin. Prices
are very good for rough sawn spruce. They don't stamp it "aircraft grade" but
95% meets the criteria for aircraft spars. The down side of their lumber -
if you don't have a planer, jointer you'll need them. The up side - I got all
the spruce for my fuselage and tail section for @ $300.
For plywood, you could check into marine grade stuff in your area. there might
be some boat builders around that sell it. There happens to be a source here
in minnesota which I got mine from. It's british marine grade okoume. I got
a 4 x 8 sheet of 1/8" (metric equivelent) for about $40. Compare that to a 4
x 8 sheet of aircraft grade okoume from Aircraft Spruce or Wicks - about $100.
Just my 2 cents.
Tom Brant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Where do I get the spruce? |
I agree with Jack here. Wick's is in Highland Illinois, 30 miles East of
St. Louis and about 2 1/2 hours from Paducah Kentucky. I lived 15 miles
from Highland until 3 weeks ago - now I'm 900 miles away so my easy Saturday
afternoon pick-up plan is out the window.
Eric
>From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Where do I get the spruce?
>Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 05:50:43 -0400
>
>
>
>Depending on where in Kentucky you are, you might want to drive to Iliinois
>to Wicks and bring your wood back home yourself, rather than have them ship
>it. Shipping the spars and the longerons and a couple of full size sheets
>of plywood cost me nearly $200.
>
>Good luck!
>
>Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
>Hargrove
>Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 11:05 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Where do I get the spruce?
>
>
>Thanks for the responses! I live in Kentucky, so that may be a factor
>with the shipping. I will definately order both the catalogs to check
>out the prices. I have been poring over the plans, and my heart is
>still beating fast just thinking about realizing this dream!
>
>Ron
>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi Ron,
> >
> > I got most of mine from Wicks Aircraft Supply. Good wood, and fast
> > shipping, but the shipping can cost nearly as much as the wood.
>Aircraft
> > Spruce and Specialty is also good quality, but they are slow on shipping
> > spruce, and they are expensive (so is Wick's).
> >
> > If you don't have catalogs from each of these companies, get them. Both
> > have websites, and both offer free catalogs that have just about
>everything
> > you will need to build an airplane. Personally, I like Wicks better.
>AS&S
> > is just a little too pricey.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
> > Hargrove
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 6:39 PM
> > To: Pietenpol-List(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Where do I get the spruce?
> >
>
> >
> > Ok guys, I finally got my plans, and while I am studying them for
>awhile,
>I
> > was wondering if I could get some input on where to get the sitka
>spruce,
>or
> > even better, where NOT to get the wood? Also, does anyone out there have
>a
> > slightly used builders manual they would be willing to part with at a
> > reasonable price? Or is it available online somewhere?
> > Many thanks,
> > Ron
> >
> > advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Hargrove <ronhargrove(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Where do I get the spruce? |
I did a mapquest search, and it is 320 miles to Highland from here,
which would probably eliminate a drive. Wicks contacted me, but they
don't have a standard matierials list for a Pietenpol on file. Does
anyone know of a previous post that has a matierials list posted that
I can send them for a quote?
Many thanks for everyones responses!
Ron
>
> I agree with Jack here. Wick's is in Highland Illinois, 30 miles East of
> St. Louis and about 2 1/2 hours from Paducah Kentucky. I lived 15 miles
> from Highland until 3 weeks ago - now I'm 900 miles away so my easy Saturday
> afternoon pick-up plan is out the window.
>
> Eric
>
> >From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Where do I get the spruce?
> >Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 05:50:43 -0400
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >Depending on where in Kentucky you are, you might want to drive to Iliinois
> >to Wicks and bring your wood back home yourself, rather than have them ship
> >it. Shipping the spars and the longerons and a couple of full size sheets
> >of plywood cost me nearly $200.
> >
> >Good luck!
> >
> >Jack
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
> >Hargrove
> >Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 11:05 PM
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Where do I get the spruce?
> >
> >
> >Thanks for the responses! I live in Kentucky, so that may be a factor
> >with the shipping. I will definately order both the catalogs to check
> >out the prices. I have been poring over the plans, and my heart is
> >still beating fast just thinking about realizing this dream!
> >
> >Ron
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hi Ron,
> > >
> > > I got most of mine from Wicks Aircraft Supply. Good wood, and fast
> > > shipping, but the shipping can cost nearly as much as the wood.
> >Aircraft
> > > Spruce and Specialty is also good quality, but they are slow on shipping
> > > spruce, and they are expensive (so is Wick's).
> > >
> > > If you don't have catalogs from each of these companies, get them. Both
> > > have websites, and both offer free catalogs that have just about
> >everything
> > > you will need to build an airplane. Personally, I like Wicks better.
> >AS&S
> > > is just a little too pricey.
> > >
> > > Jack
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
> > > Hargrove
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 6:39 PM
> > > To: Pietenpol-List(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Where do I get the spruce?
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > Ok guys, I finally got my plans, and while I am studying them for
> >awhile,
> >I
> > > was wondering if I could get some input on where to get the sitka
> >spruce,
> >or
> > > even better, where NOT to get the wood? Also, does anyone out there have
> >a
> > > slightly used builders manual they would be willing to part with at a
> > > reasonable price? Or is it available online somewhere?
> > > Many thanks,
> > > Ron
> > >
> > > advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Where do I get the spruce? |
Well, a list wouldn't have done me much good...seems like I built 2 or 3 of
everything.....especially the metal fittings....
I've found some real bargains on eBay and Barnstormers.com. Keep an eye on
those sources. Also your local EAA chapter (no one should even consider
building a Piet without EAA chapter involvement....). I'll bet there's
someone in a nearby chapter that knows of "a stack of spruce" from some
failed past project. After my local chapter found out what I was building,
one fellow told me he had "some spruce laying around" that he had started
using as a source of trim lumber for a room he was building in his
hanger....it was nice of him NOT to laugh at those big tears running down my
cheek as he spoke those words....(just kidding). Thank goodness he had only
used one piece for trim so far and I bought the rest (for about $.10 on the
dollar). Not one piece fit the Piet "materials list" but with a bit of
planing/laminating/scarfing I ended up with a LOT of what I needed.
One thing for sure.....as soon as you find what you're looking for, MANY
more sources will just "pop up" out of nowhere!!!
I also did a mapquest search......and Plano TX is NOT on your way
home...otherwise I would tell you to pick up the rough sawn stuff and "stop
by".....I just got my planer blades sharpened and they could use some
exercise! There's likely someone in your area that has a planer so I would
keep that in mind......I've heard that many of the Pietenpol "materials
lists" you get from commercial suppliers aren't "dead on" the correct
thickness....
Jim in Plano, sitting here looking at a completed (well, not
sandblasted/powder coated yet) rudder bar assembly.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Hargrove" <ronhargrove(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Where do I get the spruce?
>
> I did a mapquest search, and it is 320 miles to Highland from here,
> which would probably eliminate a drive. Wicks contacted me, but they
> don't have a standard matierials list for a Pietenpol on file. Does
> anyone know of a previous post that has a matierials list posted that
> I can send them for a quote?
>
> Many thanks for everyones responses!
> Ron
>
wrote:
> >
> > I agree with Jack here. Wick's is in Highland Illinois, 30 miles East
of
> > St. Louis and about 2 1/2 hours from Paducah Kentucky. I lived 15 miles
> > from Highland until 3 weeks ago - now I'm 900 miles away so my easy
Saturday
> > afternoon pick-up plan is out the window.
> >
> > Eric
> >
> > >From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
> > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > >To:
> > >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Where do I get the spruce?
> > >Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 05:50:43 -0400
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Depending on where in Kentucky you are, you might want to drive to
Iliinois
> > >to Wicks and bring your wood back home yourself, rather than have them
ship
> > >it. Shipping the spars and the longerons and a couple of full size
sheets
> > >of plywood cost me nearly $200.
> > >
> > >Good luck!
> > >
> > >Jack
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
> > >Hargrove
> > >Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 11:05 PM
> > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Where do I get the spruce?
> > >
> > >
> > >Thanks for the responses! I live in Kentucky, so that may be a factor
> > >with the shipping. I will definately order both the catalogs to check
> > >out the prices. I have been poring over the plans, and my heart is
> > >still beating fast just thinking about realizing this dream!
> > >
> > >Ron
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Ron,
> > > >
> > > > I got most of mine from Wicks Aircraft Supply. Good wood, and fast
> > > > shipping, but the shipping can cost nearly as much as the wood.
> > >Aircraft
> > > > Spruce and Specialty is also good quality, but they are slow on
shipping
> > > > spruce, and they are expensive (so is Wick's).
> > > >
> > > > If you don't have catalogs from each of these companies, get them.
Both
> > > > have websites, and both offer free catalogs that have just about
> > >everything
> > > > you will need to build an airplane. Personally, I like Wicks
better.
> > >AS&S
> > > > is just a little too pricey.
> > > >
> > > > Jack
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > > > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
> > > > Hargrove
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 6:39 PM
> > > > To: Pietenpol-List(at)matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Where do I get the spruce?
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Ok guys, I finally got my plans, and while I am studying them for
> > >awhile,
> > >I
> > > > was wondering if I could get some input on where to get the sitka
> > >spruce,
> > >or
> > > > even better, where NOT to get the wood? Also, does anyone out there
have
> > >a
> > > > slightly used builders manual they would be willing to part with at
a
> > > > reasonable price? Or is it available online somewhere?
> > > > Many thanks,
> > > > Ron
> > > >
> > > > advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Brodhead 2004 photos and tales |
To Terry and anyone else out there that couldn't make it to Brodhead, I have
just sent a few pictures to the List photoshare, so they should be available
in a few days, or whenever they get posted.
I got in my car Saturday morning at 6:30 am and arrived at Brodhead 12 hours
and 1125 km (700 mi) later to find hundreds of people lined-up for supper. I
skipped eating, and went straight to the planes. Some beautiful work. Lots
of great ideas. So many different ways to build one airplane. A few planes
were in the air as the sun began to set. Fantastic weather. The evening
cooled off, and I found myself sitting by a bonfire listening to stories and
having an enjoyable evening. Eventually we realized that it was actually
Sunday morning and the sun would be rising very soon, so I went off and
caught 4 hours sleep in the back of my van.
Sunday morning the sun was shining. I grabbed a quick bowl of cereal and a
glass of juice and got back to the planes. Everyone I spoke with was very
friendly and willing to explain anything one might have a question about.
Some people were leaving to head home. Some people were leaving to head for
Oshkosh. Tim Mickel was heading there in his shiny red and white Piet,
having given rides for six and a half hours on Saturday. But before he went,
he offered to take me up for a spin. He said he tried to give as many rides
to builders as possible. Yee-Haw! That was fun! Eventually I realized that
most of the planes had left, and I really needed to get on the road. Back in
the car, and 13 hours later I was home, arriving at 3:30 am. I was dead
tired, and really not looking forward to the alarm clock that was going to
be screaming at me in two hours. My wife asked if I had a good time. I said
no, I had a great time! She said she was glad I was happy.
In the words of Walt Evans, "Ain't life grand!"
Bill
(still waiting for my plans to arrive)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2004 photos and tales |
Bill..
Great, Thanks for posting...and for sharing the story of your trip.
Terry..
Anxiously waiting for the pics.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: YEEE HAAAAWWWW !!! >>>>OFF LIST<<<<< |
Hello Chuck,
I have followed all your trip trough Corky' mails, I have one sugest to
do:
Keep as much notes and photos with as much names (people, towns,
airports, FBO attendants, etc.)
Later you can convert them in to a book (any size, this is not
important) with great Piet adventures.
I am reading the book "Canibal Queen" that I borowed from Ted Brousseau
(Naples, FL), is about a pilot visiting all the USA states in a
Stearman... You can write something similar or better with your
personal touch, this will be great, think about it, maybe even can pay
for your flying adventures... Who knows.
Wel, Congratulations for your trip. Fly Safe and enjoy as much as you
can, We all will be following you...
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hey All !!
> I have so many stories to tell (most of which are true) it will
> take me months to get them all told!! Everything is working out so
> well on this trip.
> I've finally got to a computer where I can sit down and type a few
> words. I'm at my sister's, in Columbus OH right now. Tomorrow
> (probably late morning), she will take me back out to the airport,
> and I think I just about have her convinced to go for a flight !!
> She has a friend from work that is going to meet us out there, who
> has two kids who I'll introduce to the 'Wonderful World of
> Pietenpols'.
> I'll probably depart Union Co. Airport (Marysville) sometime late
> afternoon, and head on east to Marshall Co. Airport, which is just
> south of Wheeling W V. I'll be staying with my boys, and visiting
> home for a week or so, and I'll have access to a computer, so I'll be
> able to let you all know of some of the wonderful experiences I've
> had. I could do that flight in one hop, but as I fly over the
> airports that I use for way-points on the GPS, if I see anyone down
> there, I peel off, and go give them a 'Smoke Run', then circle back
> around and land. A bit of a diversion, but a necessary one.
> It was difficult to admit that Brodhead was over this year, and I
> was the last one to fly away. The others were John in Mountain
> Piet...I think he left at the crack of dawn. Then the two guys in
> the Starduster left some time just before noon. I got very memorable
> ride in that plane !!
> I had a bit of a scare as I approached Portland Indiana last
> evening. Fog was closing in, and visibility was closing in. That
> GPS that I have bad mouthed in the past, helped me find the airport.
> I was at full power, holding the stick forward to maintain view of
> the earth (skud running) when the runway broke into view at 1.8 miles
> out. Let me tell you, that runway was a sight for sore eyes !! I'll
> go into more details about it in the near future.
> I'll still keep in touch with Corky, while en route, to keep
> everyone posted of where the next smoke run, or T.P. drop will occur
> !!
>
> From Trees & Rags,
> to Stick & Rudder,
> Pietenpols are Forever !!
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
>
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mike(at)mking.us> |
| Subject: | LEADING EDGE TAPE (gap seal) |
Hello Gang,
Can someone steer me in the right direction as a source for
leading edge
tape to be used a gap seal on control surfaces?
I saw a Hatz the other day and it had clear leading edge tape
used as a
gap seal for better roll performance. My GN-1 has significant
gaps so a
seal for better roll response would be appreciated. I wonder
because it
does fly a little "nose high" if using leading edge tape between
the horizontal
stabilizer and elevators could help raise the tail a little bit.
As always, thanks.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas, Texas
P.S. I saw where Chuck had built gap seals on both the tail and
wings of his
plane and it performed well as evidenced by his smoke runs at
Tick Hill.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
I have no idea why I have this....just ran across it while looking for some
other pics.....
I would not personally use it without a LOT of checking/confirming sizes
before actually ordering anything....
JM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doyle Combs" <dcombs(at)ltex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LEADING EDGE TAPE (gap seal) |
Mike, the PGN-2 has weather stripping tapped to the back of the wing slot housing
the aileron. It seems to work rather well.
Doyle
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike King
To: Pietenpol Discussion Group
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 9:45 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: LEADING EDGE TAPE (gap seal)
Hello Gang,
Can someone steer me in the right direction as a source for leading edge
tape to be used a gap seal on control surfaces?
I saw a Hatz the other day and it had clear leading edge tape used as a
gap seal for better roll performance. My GN-1 has significant gaps so a
seal for better roll response would be appreciated. I wonder because it
does fly a little "nose high" if using leading edge tape between the horizontal
stabilizer and elevators could help raise the tail a little bit.
As always, thanks.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas, Texas
P.S. I saw where Chuck had built gap seals on both the tail and wings of his
plane and it performed well as evidenced by his smoke runs at Tick Hill.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Where do I get the spruce? |
Ron,
Try this: (attached).
I think I downloaded this from a Piet board somewhere. Again, be sure to
double check all the sizes and length requirements against the plans.
-Wayne
In a message dated 7/29/2004 9:01:43 AM Central Daylight Time,
ronhargrove(at)gmail.com writes:
Does
anyone know of a previous post that has a matierials list posted that
I can send them for a quote?
Many thanks for everyones responses!
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Franck <franck(at)geneseo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 07/28/04 |
> I am submitting proposal #2....
>see link below. Some of the comments were incorporated into the logo...pilot
>and "belle" added...white scarf. Flight attitude in level cruise...not in a
>downward mode.
>http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=TACO%2003.jpg&PhotoID=2517
>Terry B
Just my 2 cents worth.
Two more changes needed...........1. Corvair engine, 2. Red letters for
the T, A, C and O to make them stand out.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
Hey........I'm just the messenger! The response to Randy's t-shirts for the 75th
anniversary has been great but it seems like I left one huge piece of info out;
Randy's phone number. I'm sure it would be much more productive if you gave
him a call than have me try to relay who wants what.
Randy Bruce
(407)330-6574
Thanks for the queries.
Sorry, I don't have the capabilities to send pics but perhaps someone who bought
a shirt at Brodhead could give it a try.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fitting out your Pietenpol |
Here's where I have to show my ignorance in order to learn
something....What's a pull starter on a Pietenpol??? Carl
Vought/Huntsville, AL
wrote :
>
> Well I can't hold it in any longer. My twin daughter is in the hospital
> awaiting twins any day now. So, I am grounded to home area. Had to
cancel
> Brodhead and OSH. Moped all weekend thinking about Brodhead. So, went
out
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | TACO update (Don't read if you are a sourpuss) |
I made it home to the Great Lone Star State without incident... (No tickets,
no mad Yankees chasing me, and muy importante, no broken Coronas or bones.)
I'm dubbing off a special unedited video of my adventure strictly for Chuck's
benefit and I hope he won't show it to anyone else, so I might edit the
project into something that looks good at a future date. I just want Chuck to have
some memorable footage of his adventure and a looksie at his plane as he is
blowing smoke on all us who stood on the ground and gawked at him. Man, what a
crowd pleaser.
In order to elevate our group to a higher plain (plane, pardon the pun) I
have devised a secret TACO handshake. Those guys at the Ivy League schools (Skull
And Crossbones boys, George Bush, John Kerry and other elite folks) have
their own secret handshake, that it is high-time we enact our own. I'll show you
how the secret TACO handshake is done next time we meet. Later, we might even
get around to talking Air Campers.
We need four volunteers for the below vacant positions...
#1, HISTORIAN (so we TACOS can keep track of our accomplishments, lies and
blunders)
#2. COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN FOR THE STUDY OF RUNWAY CENTERLINE DEVELOPMENT and
STRAIGHTNESS (SRCDS)
#3. NEWSLETTER EDITOR AND CHEAP (i mean chief) E-MAIL
CORRESPONDENT/SPOKESPERSON, alias TACO LOCO. I need to sign off for a very, very
long time.
#4. CULINARY ADVISOR (so when we meet next time, an appropriate selection of
The National Food of Texas can be made available (if all members are in
flavor, I mean in FAVOR :) in lieu of hamburgers.)
#5. INJUN JOE (Actually it should be spelled Engine Joe, so we can have an
expert on staff to expand on the virtues of the number of different engines
folks are using in their Air Campers. Please excuse me, if I have offended anyone
having Native American Blood in their genetic makeup. I meant no harm by the
Injun Joe job announcement.
This message was not proofread nor approved by Jim Markle.
Adios,
Taco Loco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Hargrove <ronhargrove(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Where do I get the spruce? |
That is perfect, exactly what I was looking for!
Thanks,
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: n925wb1(at)aol.com <n925wb1(at)aol.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 13:46:25 EDT
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Where do I get the spruce?
Ron,
Try this: (attached).
I think I downloaded this from a Piet board somewhere. Again, be sure
to double check all the sizes and length requirements against the
plans.
-Wayne
In a message dated 7/29/2004 9:01:43 AM Central Daylight Time,
ronhargrove(at)gmail.com writes:
Does
anyone know of a previous post that has a matierials list posted that
I can send them for a quote?
Many thanks for everyones responses!
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com> |
I like the proposal for the TACO logo but I think the wheels should be the
old fashioned spoked wheels and not those thick black tires.
Jeff Hill in rainy Texas, where my buddy Kip Yearwood, after having such a
great time in Brodhead, wants me to make him a Piet.
Discover the best of the best at MSN Luxury Living. http://lexus.msn.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Another nice email from Chuck Gantzer's sister in Ohio
Corky
by rly-xl03.mx.aol.com (v100.23) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXL34-5c2410967bd18e;
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:10:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: becki guy <spinq2(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Chuck
--0-1538734478-1091135420=:25804
Corky,
Chuck ask that I e-mail you. I picked him up @ the airport yesterday....
once I got him out of there. Two bags of popcorn & 1.5 hours later I was still
sitting @ the airport watching TV while he talked to the manager, the mechanic
& then a guy who teachs aerobatics.(guess who wants lessons). I went up with
him today & must admit it was more fun that I expected. I now understand
why your group enjoys the Piet. so much. Chuck also took my friend's 2 kids up.
As you probably know there is no simple explanation with Chuck. I think
he talked for 2 hours before he took us for a ride. He left Marysville about
3:30pm instead of 2pm as planned. Imagine that! He just called me from Knox
Co. a few minutes ago & said his radio quit working. He changed the batteries
but there was still a problem. He said to tell you he is going on to Marshall
Co. WV as scheduled & that the weather is hazy. Hopefully you will hear from
Charles himself in the near future. Becki
---------------------------------
--0-1538734478-1091135420=:25804
Corky,
Chuck ask that I e-mail you. I picked him up
@ the airport yesterday.... once I got him out of there. Two bags of popcorn
1.5 hours later I was still sitting @ the airport watching TV while
he talked to the manager, the mechanic thena guy who teachs aerobatics.(guess
who wants lessons). I went up with him today
must admit it was more fun that I expected. I now understand why your group
enjoys the Piet. so much. Chuck also took my friend's 2 kids up.
As you probably know there is no simple explanation with Chuck.
I think he talked for 2 hours beforehe took us for a ride.
He left Marysville about 3:30pm instead of 2pm as planned. Imagine that!
He just called me from Knox Co. a few minutes ago said his radio
quit working. He changed the batteries but there was still a problem.
He said to tell you he is going on to Marshall Co
. WV as
scheduled that the weather is hazy. Hopefully you will hear from Charles
himself in the near future. Becki
--0-1538734478-1091135420=:25804--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2004 photos and tales |
Bill,
Yes,,,Life IS Grand!!!
I envy you getting started on your Piet.
I remember the day I recieved my plans in a tube and looked them over while
waiting for my daughter to get out of nite class at college. (She had foot
surgery and couldn't drive). Just the look of the plans,,Copies of drawings
that were drawn in the 1930's. Like alot of people, I thought,,,"gee,
there's not alot of information here". Don't be fooled, with the exceptions
of a very few mistakes, there's a wealth of information on those plans.
walt evans
NX140DL
PS first thing to remember is to add about 1/4" inch to all tabs on metal
fittings.
nuff said
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2004 photos and tales
> In the words of Walt Evans, "Ain't life grand!"
>
> Bill
> (still waiting for my plans to arrive)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Bill Church ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Bill Church
Lists: Pietenpol-List
Subject: Brodhead 2004
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/eng@canadianrogers.com.07.29.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Pictures tell SO much!!! |
http://www.airventure.org/2004/gallery/images/fabric_workshop.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shawn Wolk" <shawnwolk(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: LEADING EDGE TAPE (gap seal) |
The people at Aircraft Sales and parts (ASAP) in Vernon, BC sell a nylon type tape
similar to a bookbinding tape that works great for a gap seal. It is available
in 2" or 3" wide. What I did was get the 3" tape and then taped a 2" piece
onto the sticky side so that the 3" tape has two 1/2" wide sticky strips. I
then folded the tape in the middle and with the closed end up to the top of the
wing surface stuck the sticky parts to the wing and the airleron.
I have seen this same idea used on a J3 Cub, and it works. This is the contact
info for where I purchased the tape.(ASAP) But you can probably find this locally
as well.
Mailing Address:
Box 995,
Vernon, B.C. Canada V1T 6N2
Tel: (250) 549-1102
Fax: (250) 549-3769
email: parts(at)ultralight.ca
Shawn Wolk
Aircraft Fanatic
C-FRAZ Pietenpol on Wheels, Skis, and Floats!!!
C-GZOT Skyhopper
Winnipeg, MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Hargrove <ronhargrove(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | A really neat and simple scarfing jig |
I saw this on the web, and thought it was a really simple and elegant
solution to making 10-1 airplane scarf joints, so I thought I would
share the discovery
Thanks,
Ron
http://www.seqair.com/skunkworks/WoodWkgMethods/GaugerScarfJig/Gauger.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A really neat and simple scarfing jig |
I like that. And you could probably put a deeper bit in the router for a
deeper scarf. Pretty cool.
Here's another variation on scarfing "tools":
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=402&PlaneID=52
Jim in Plano.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Hargrove" <ronhargrove(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A really neat and simple scarfing jig
>
> I saw this on the web, and thought it was a really simple and elegant
> solution to making 10-1 airplane scarf joints, so I thought I would
> share the discovery
>
> Thanks,
> Ron
>
> http://www.seqair.com/skunkworks/WoodWkgMethods/GaugerScarfJig/Gauger.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mike(at)mking.us> |
| Subject: | Re: LEADING EDGE TAPE (gap seal) |
Thank you Shawn for the tip. I have been receiving (offline)
similar suggestions. All have reported
success. I was a little apprehensive using tape that might come
off and bind into the control surfaces.
I am glad to hear others have used it with success.
Thanks again.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Shawn Wolk
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: LEADING EDGE TAPE (gap seal)
The people at Aircraft Sales and parts (ASAP) in Vernon, BC sell
a nylon type tape similar to a bookbinding tape that works great
for a gap seal. It is available in 2" or 3" wide. What I did was
get the 3" tape and then taped a 2" piece onto the sticky side so
that the 3" tape has two 1/2" wide sticky strips. I then folded
the tape in the middle and with the closed end up to the top of
the wing surface stuck the sticky parts to the wing and the
airleron.
I have seen this same idea used on a J3 Cub, and it works. This
is the contact info for where I purchased the tape.(ASAP) But you
can probably find this locally as well.
Mailing Address:=09
Box 995, =09
Vernon, B.C. Canada V1T 6N2
Tel: (250) 549-1102
Fax: (250) 549-3769
email: parts(at)ultralight.ca
Shawn Wolk
Aircraft Fanatic
C-FRAZ Pietenpol on Wheels, Skis, and Floats!!!
C-GZOT Skyhopper
Winnipeg, MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | TACO Shirts and stickers |
Howdy Piet folks,
Nobody else has proposed another TACO logo. So I am about ready to order some
T-shirts...and as suggested by Jim Markle...some vinyl stickers about 4 inches
diameter.
Here's my final logo proposal #3. (see link below) How many folks would like
to order vinyl stickers or T-shirts? I haven't priced them yet, but will do my
best to keep the cost/quality ratio at Piet standards.
I have tried to incorporate most of everyone's suggestions into the logo. Some
that I haven't included are wire spoke wheels...and corvair engine. I kept the
continental engine...because most of the folks who came to Tick Hill have continental
engine projects and because I have already spent more time on the artwork
than I had planned. Perhaps I will have more time in the future and can
revise the logo later.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=TACO%2004.jpg&PhotoID=2518
For now...I am just trying to get a count of interested folks so I can get some
prices together. So, email me if you would like me to put you down for a shirt
and/or sticker. I will email prices and get a detailed count before I have
them made.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mike(at)mking.us> |
| Subject: | TACO Shirts and stickers |
Terry,
GREAT JOB. Put me down for five (5) T-shirts and two (2) vinyl
stickers.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
HOT TACO
Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: TACO Shirts and stickers
Howdy Piet folks,
Nobody else has proposed another TACO logo. So I am about ready
to order some T-shirts...and as suggested by Jim Markle...some
vinyl stickers about 4 inches diameter.
Here's my final logo proposal #3. (see link below) How many
folks would like to order vinyl stickers or T-shirts? I haven't
priced them yet, but will do my best to keep the cost/quality
ratio at Piet standards.
I have tried to incorporate most of everyone's suggestions into
the logo. Some that I haven't included are wire spoke
wheels...and corvair engine. I kept the continental
engine...because most of the folks who came to Tick Hill have
continental engine projects and because I have already spent more
time on the artwork than I had planned. Perhaps I will have more
time in the future and can revise the logo later.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=TACO%
2004.jpg&PhotoID=2518
For now...I am just trying to get a count of interested folks so
I can get some prices together. So, email me if you would like
me to put you down for a shirt and/or sticker. I will email
prices and get a detailed count before I have them made.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
=========
=========
=========
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TACO Shirts and stickers |
If you can keep the blue color of the text the same color as the blue in the
flag and maybe change the "low and slow" to red then you would have 6 colors
and that would cut the cost of T-shirt printing substantially.
Most screen printing presses are 6 colors... anything more than 6 and it
gets mighty expensive.
DJ
From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: TACO Shirts and stickers
>
> Howdy Piet folks,
>
> Nobody else has proposed another TACO logo. So I am about ready to order
some T-shirts...and as suggested by Jim Markle...some vinyl stickers about 4
inches diameter.
>
> Here's my final logo proposal #3. (see link below) How many folks would
like to order vinyl stickers or T-shirts? I haven't priced them yet, but
will do my best to keep the cost/quality ratio at Piet standards.
>
> I have tried to incorporate most of everyone's suggestions into the logo.
Some that I haven't included are wire spoke wheels...and corvair engine. I
kept the continental engine...because most of the folks who came to Tick
Hill have continental engine projects and because I have already spent more
time on the artwork than I had planned. Perhaps I will have more time in
the future and can revise the logo later.
>
>
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=TACO%2004.jpg&PhotoID=2518
>
> For now...I am just trying to get a count of interested folks so I can get
some prices together. So, email me if you would like me to put you down for
a shirt and/or sticker. I will email prices and get a detailed count before
I have them made.
>
> --
> Terry L. Bowden
> ph 254-715-4773
> fax 254-853-3805
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TACO Shirts and stickers |
I also just noticed you have some additional colors being used on the pilot
and passenger.
unless you change them to colors already used you may want to just have the
logos done as heat transfers on the T-shirt.
He transfers can have infinite colors as they are printed on a printer and
then cooked on. Downside to those is they last about half as long as
screened ink. In less than a year's worth of washings they will fade out.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: TACO Shirts and stickers
>
> Howdy Piet folks,
>
> Nobody else has proposed another TACO logo. So I am about ready to order
some T-shirts...and as suggested by Jim Markle...some vinyl stickers about 4
inches diameter.
>
> Here's my final logo proposal #3. (see link below) How many folks would
like to order vinyl stickers or T-shirts? I haven't priced them yet, but
will do my best to keep the cost/quality ratio at Piet standards.
>
> I have tried to incorporate most of everyone's suggestions into the logo.
Some that I haven't included are wire spoke wheels...and corvair engine. I
kept the continental engine...because most of the folks who came to Tick
Hill have continental engine projects and because I have already spent more
time on the artwork than I had planned. Perhaps I will have more time in
the future and can revise the logo later.
>
>
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=TACO%2004.jpg&PhotoID=2518
>
> For now...I am just trying to get a count of interested folks so I can get
some prices together. So, email me if you would like me to put you down for
a shirt and/or sticker. I will email prices and get a detailed count before
I have them made.
>
> --
> Terry L. Bowden
> ph 254-715-4773
> fax 254-853-3805
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | TACO Shirts and stickers |
3 T's and 5 stickers
Thanks
Larry Ragan (FLACO/TACO)
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: TACO Shirts and stickers |
DJ
Thanks for the pointers. It should save me some effort with the screen printer.
I was planning to let them tell me if any adjustments need to be made. But
this way...I can be better prepared.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Build Your Own Pietenpol Tee Shirt |
http://www.mykitplane.com/TaxiWay/TheHangar/photoAlbumManager.cfm?AlbumID=210
The link above goes to a shirt worn by a few elite folks at Brodhead, mainly
Doc, who looked rather dapper in his new BYOP shirt. (Also, I hope to have the
website WWW.BYOP.US up and running soon if I can ever figure this internet
hosting & design stuff out. Don't hold your breath.)
As if we need another tee shirt in this world... the link should (unless I
messed up) take you to my samples that I am selling at my cost, just to let the
world know about this terrific little airplane. 100% cotton, 3 ink, front and
back design with NOTAMS from Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle
Ranch on the front (about landing in a cow chip). On the back is a "STOP" sign
and in place of STOP, the sing reads BYOP. "Air Camper Pilot On Board, Flying
Low and Slow Since 1929" is on the front.
Thanks DJ for allowing me to use your line drawing in the design of this Tee
Shirt. Your shirt is in the mail.
$12.75 (my cost for Tax, Title and License) gets you a tee shirt in the mail
as soon as I receive your payment. Please e-mail me first so I can advise if I
have any left in stock. In a few medium, large and extra large. I take
checks, money orders and of course Corona beer.
TACO LOCO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Model A engine lubrication |
At Brodhead, we heard some very good presentations, one being by Ken
Perkins, who delivered a highly enlightening talk on the Model A engine. I
was hanging on every word. One of the things he pointed out was that the
lubrication system of the Model A engine was designed to use thin oil. He
described how he mixes 20 weight with 10 weight to get 15 weight. When I
was a kid and depended upon my Model A for daily transportation, I always
used 30 weight, but I can't remember why. I've just gone through all of the
data I have on that engine and I cannot find anything to support the choice
of 30 weight. I'd like to hear from some Model A-ers out there who'd be
willing to comment on what oil they use and on what they base their choice.
Carl Vought/Huntsville, AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A engine lubrication |
Carl,
I owned a Model A (1931) Four door. We (Larry my brother and me)
rebuilt the engine when we were at high school (equivalent here), was
back in 1966. The only oil we used in t hat engine was HD 30 from
Quaker State, for several years until we sold the car...
When we bought the car the engine was in bad shape, so we used grade 40
for several months...
By the way, the multigrade oils were not very popular here at that
time.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- "Carl D. Vought" wrote:
>
>
> At Brodhead, we heard some very good presentations, one being by Ken
> Perkins, who delivered a highly enlightening talk on the Model A
> engine. I
> was hanging on every word. One of the things he pointed out was that
> the
> lubrication system of the Model A engine was designed to use thin
> oil. He
> described how he mixes 20 weight with 10 weight to get 15 weight.
> When I
> was a kid and depended upon my Model A for daily transportation, I
> always
> used 30 weight, but I can't remember why. I've just gone through all
> of the
> data I have on that engine and I cannot find anything to support the
> choice
> of 30 weight. I'd like to hear from some Model A-ers out there who'd
> be
> willing to comment on what oil they use and on what they base their
> choice.
> Carl Vought/Huntsville, AL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A engine lubrication |
Gary..Thanks for your response. I believe your experience (re: 40 wt oil)
was pretty typical for the time (before restoring cars became a religeon).
I got my car in 1953 and I guess I used 30wt on advice from other users or
former users. The Floyd Clymer reprint of the manual talks in terms of
viscosity and flash point, instead of "weight". When did standards come out
on "weight", anyway??? I'll pose the question about thin oil to Grant
McLauren and see what happens..Carl Vought
wrote :
>
> Carl,
>
> I owned a Model A (1931) Four door. We (Larry my brother and me)
> rebuilt the
>
> --- "Carl D. Vought" wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > At Brodhead, we heard some very good presentations, one being by Ken
> > Perkins, who delivered a highly
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Helpful Web sites for first-time builders. |
These may have been posted before, but here are a couple excellent sites for
first-time builders -- lots of info about wood, glues, etc., etc.:
http://www.faa.gov/certification/aircraft/av-info/dst/amateur/default.htm
http://www.faa.gov/certification/aircraft/av-info/dst/43-13/default.htm
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jake Nichols" <cowboyjake(at)insight.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Three piece wing spar dimensions |
I am laying out a rib jig based on the Flying and Gliding plans but am planning
on using the three piece wing. It appears from messages on the list that the
three piece wing may use a different size spar. What are the cross sectional
dimensions of the spar?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Three piece wing spar dimensions |
Jake,
Same spar dimensions with either version.
1" X 4 3/4" routed.
An acceptable alternative is a 3/4" solid spar.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: Jake Nichols
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 5:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Three piece wing spar dimensions
I am laying out a rib jig based on the Flying and Gliding plans but am planning
on using the three piece wing. It appears from messages on the list that the
three piece wing may use a different size spar. What are the cross sectional
dimensions of the spar?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doyle Combs" <dcombs(at)ltex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: TACO Shirts and stickers |
Terry, I need two tee shirts, both Large size, unless the shirts are smaller
than usual and in that case, one Xlarge and one Large. I also need two
stickers. It looks great. DJ is right, in silk screening, the more
consistently you can use the same color, the better. Over three different
colors, just have them do a four color process. It will be cheaper in the
long run.
Doyle
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: TACO Shirts and stickers
>
> Howdy Piet folks,
>
> Nobody else has proposed another TACO logo. So I am about ready to order
some T-shirts...and as suggested by Jim Markle...some vinyl stickers about 4
inches diameter.
>
> Here's my final logo proposal #3. (see link below) How many folks would
like to order vinyl stickers or T-shirts? I haven't priced them yet, but
will do my best to keep the cost/quality ratio at Piet standards.
>
> I have tried to incorporate most of everyone's suggestions into the logo.
Some that I haven't included are wire spoke wheels...and corvair engine. I
kept the continental engine...because most of the folks who came to Tick
Hill have continental engine projects and because I have already spent more
time on the artwork than I had planned. Perhaps I will have more time in
the future and can revise the logo later.
>
>
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=TACO%2004.jpg&Ph
otoID=2518
>
> For now...I am just trying to get a count of interested folks so I can get
some prices together. So, email me if you would like me to put you down for
a shirt and/or sticker. I will email prices and get a detailed count before
I have them made.
>
> --
> Terry L. Bowden
> ph 254-715-4773
> fax 254-853-3805
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Green" <mmml(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Replica Dixi Magneto Switches |
I was just going thru the old B.P.A. newsletters and came across an article on
replica dixie magneto switches that were available from Frank Pavliga. Does anyone
know if these are still available, or where I might get something simmilar?
Mike Green
Romsey,
Victoria,
AUSTRALIA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Replica Dixi Magneto Switches |
As a matter of fact!!
What Frank had originally were all sold.....
But we're working on the possibility (ONLY a possibility at this point) of having
him build some more......an announcement will be made to the list when (and
if) another batch gets built and if any become available.
Jim in Plano....
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Green
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 7:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Replica Dixi Magneto Switches
I was just going thru the old B.P.A. newsletters and came across an article on
replica dixie magneto switches that were available from Frank Pavliga. Does
anyone know if these are still available, or where I might get something simmilar?
Mike Green
Romsey,
Victoria,
AUSTRALIA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Picture of a Piet.... |
Ahhh, an Air Camper right in the middle of things.....
At least it looks like Bill Rewey's Pietenpol (with the stars on the wings)....maybe
not....I would bet that's Bill standing on the port side.....
http://www.airventure.org/2004/gallery/images/aerial_membervillage.jpg
Well, it's right in the middle of things, where it SHOULD be!!!
Jim in Plano
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Build Your Own Pietenpol Tee Shirt |
This is the link I got to work...
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID210
http://www.mykitplane.com/TaxiWay/TheHangar/photoAlbumManager.cfm?AlbumID210
The link above goes to a shirt worn by a few elite folks at Brodhead, mainly
Doc, who looked rather dapper in his new BYOP shirt. (Also, I hope to have the
website WWW.BYOP.US up and running soon if I can ever figure this internet hosting
& design stuff out. Don't hold your breath.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Green" <mmml(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Replica Dixi Magneto Switches |
Thanx Jim.
Mike in Oz......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
I think it's been mentioned before, but thought I would share a great site I found
a while back.
I'm checking some wing angles/rises/slopes/etc and needed to know the exact angle
for a 1" rise at the wingtip....and this site makes quick work of it.
Go here: http://www.engineersedge.com/calculators/triangle_solution_menu.htm and there are a bunch of right triangle formulaes that make the numbers quick and easy (unless you have a Smoley's...and if you know what THAT is, you're an older antique than myself!)
I think I once heard someone say they put in about 1 1/2 degrees of dihedral so
they would have an inch or so at the wingtip....NOT. 1 1/2 degrees at (approx)
161" gives a bit more than 4" of rise....ok, it doesn't really matter at this
point, but it sure is nice to have a quick and easy check of the numbers!
Jim in Plano
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Here we go again Chuck Gantzer is on the Move |
Thanks to Chuck for the tip about Quincy. It was on the route to OSH for me
but after Chuck's bad experience I decided to avoid it and landed at K52
(Monroe City, Mo.). Friendly place and the FBO keeps a picture album of the
visitors. Fuel prices aren't bad either at $2.34.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trig help... |
Jim,
All those angles and measurements can be done with the Sine, Cosine, &
Tangent formulas. Pretty simple stuff once you get the hang of it. I'll have
to
admit, though, having a program that calculates it all for you is much easier!
-Wayne
In a message dated 7/31/2004 9:38:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
I think it's been mentioned before, but thought I would share a great site I
found a while back.
I'm checking some wing angles/rises/slopes/etc and needed to know the exact
angle for a 1" rise at the wingtip....and this site makes quick work of it.
Go here:
_http://www.engineersedge.com/calculators/triangle_solution_menu.htm_ (http://www.engineersedge.com/calculators/triangle_solution_menu.htm) and
there are a bunch of right triangle formulaes that make the numbers quick
and easy (unless you have a Smoley's...and if you know what THAT is, you're an
older antique than myself!)
I think I once heard someone say they put in about 1 1/2 degrees of dihedral
so they would have an inch or so at the wingtip....NOT. 1 1/2 degrees at
(approx) 161" gives a bit more than 4" of rise....ok, it doesn't really matter
at this point, but it sure is nice to have a quick and easy check of the
numbers!
Jim in Plano
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about heritage |
My buddies and I stopped at Brodhead on the way to
OSH. He is building a pure Piet and is a Model A buff.
I am going to ask the absurd question now. Having
attended Bill Rewey's forum, where he suggested that
if you change the design, it ain't a Pietenpol....he
then went through all of his changes he made. We
talked to him and he laughed and acknowledged that
right away. I agree with him. So now, I ask, when I
was at C37, did I see any Grega's? Are they welcome at
Brodhead? Dumb questions, I know. I have another
friend, building a corvair Grega. I like the C 65's.
What is the feeling of plans modifications. Would hate
to fly up there and have to hide in the trees.
My buddy who is building the pure Piet, got to ride in
two of the Continental planes, one of which was Chucks
from Kansas.
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trig help... |
Or.... figure that 1" rise in 57" equals 1 degree -- this works up to 10
degrees (10 " rise in 57") with 1/2% error (you would need to add a bit less
than a 1/16 (.05") to your 10" to get closer to 10 degrees).
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 9:37 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Trig help...
I think it's been mentioned before, but thought I would share a great site
I found a while back.
I'm checking some wing angles/rises/slopes/etc and needed to know the
exact angle for a 1" rise at the wingtip....and this site makes quick work
of it.
Go here:
http://www.engineersedge.com/calculators/triangle_solution_menu.htm and
there are a bunch of right triangle formulaes that make the numbers quick
and easy (unless you have a Smoley's...and if you know what THAT is, you're
an older antique than myself!)
I think I once heard someone say they put in about 1 1/2 degrees of
dihedral so they would have an inch or so at the wingtip....NOT. 1 1/2
degrees at (approx) 161" gives a bit more than 4" of rise....ok, it doesn't
really matter at this point, but it sure is nice to have a quick and easy
check of the numbers!
Jim in Plano
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Build Your Own Pietenpol Tee Shirt |
shirt looks great Sterling! can't wait to get mine.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Whaley
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Your Own Pietenpol Tee Shirt
This is the link I got to work...
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID210
http://www.mykitplane.com/TaxiWay/TheHangar/photoAlbumManager.cfm?AlbumID210
The link above goes to a shirt worn by a few elite folks at Brodhead, mainly
Doc, who looked rather dapper in his new BYOP shirt. (Also, I hope to have the
website WWW.BYOP.US up and running soon if I can ever figure this internet
hosting & design stuff out. Don't hold your breath.)
________________________________________________________________________________
My spruce for the modernized Piet has finally arrived up here in Bethel, AK and
I'll be laying up the jigs over the next week or so. At the time I ordered 1/8"
90 degree birch for the gussets. I now wonder if I should have ordered 45
degree. Any problem using 90 degree vs. 45 degree? If so, could I cut the plywood
on the bias and in effect create 45*/45* gussets (ply-wise that is).
Second question. I read a post that scared me yesterday. The person asked if
the spars were different on the 3-pc vs. 1-pc wing. I bought Charle's 1-pc rib
set (I was thinking weight at the time). I'm now going with the three piece.
I don't have the plans in front of me today. Please tell me I haven't screwed
up big time.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jake Crause" <admin(at)homebuiltairplanes.com> |
| Subject: | Wing ribs - 2 questions |
report
I've been looking over the plans while designing my rib jig and I came
up with a couple of questions.
1. On drawing #5 the wing rib is shown without vertical braces
hugging the spar (not sure what these are called). On the full size
wing rib drawing I received from Don the rib has a single vertical brace
hugging the inside of each spar. What is the collective wisdom that has
been accumulated over the years on those braces. The idea of dual
vertical braces hugging the inside and outside of each spar gives me the
warmest fuzzy of all but I do not want to add too much weight or
transfer stresses where they do not belong.
2. How does the airfoil shape of the original plans compare with the
shape of the full size rib template provided by Don? I seem to remember
reading somewhere there was a discrepancy in the shape. Mine is at the
copy shop at the moment so I was hoping someone could straighten me out.
I want to use the full size sheet as my template for my jig but will not
do so if it's not the right shape.
Thanks in advance -
Jake
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
Stacy,
I used 90 degree on all gussets. ( 1/8" for fuse,,,1/16" for wing rib)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Stacy Clark
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 12:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gussets?
My spruce for the modernized Piet has finally arrived up here in Bethel, AK and
I'll be laying up the jigs over the next week or so. At the time I ordered
1/8" 90 degree birch for the gussets. I now wonder if I should have ordered
45 degree. Any problem using 90 degree vs. 45 degree? If so, could I cut the
plywood on the bias and in effect create 45*/45* gussets (ply-wise that is).
Second question. I read a post that scared me yesterday. The person asked if
the spars were different on the 3-pc vs. 1-pc wing. I bought Charle's 1-pc
rib set (I was thinking weight at the time). I'm now going with the three piece.
I don't have the plans in front of me today. Please tell me I haven't screwed
up big time.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
90 degree gussets work well all over the plane.
Charlie Rubeck's ribs are appropriate for either 1 piece or 3 piece wings.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: Stacy Clark
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:19 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gussets?
My spruce for the modernized Piet has finally arrived up here in Bethel, AK and
I'll be laying up the jigs over the next week or so. At the time I ordered
1/8" 90 degree birch for the gussets. I now wonder if I should have ordered
45 degree. Any problem using 90 degree vs. 45 degree? If so, could I cut the
plywood on the bias and in effect create 45*/45* gussets (ply-wise that is).
Second question. I read a post that scared me yesterday. The person asked if
the spars were different on the 3-pc vs. 1-pc wing. I bought Charle's 1-pc
rib set (I was thinking weight at the time). I'm now going with the three piece.
I don't have the plans in front of me today. Please tell me I haven't screwed
up big time.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about heritage |
The drawings are vague enough to allow
"personal interpretation".
If it looks remotely like a Pietenpol it will
be warmly welcomed at Brodhead
and you can display it with pride.
Don't get too hung up on "Pietenpol Purity".
Everybody has their own definition.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question about
heritage
Nelson
>
>
> My buddies and I stopped at Brodhead on the
way to
> OSH. He is building a pure Piet and is a
Model A buff.
> I am going to ask the absurd question now.
Having
> attended Bill Rewey's forum, where he
suggested that
> if you change the design, it ain't a
Pietenpol....he
> then went through all of his changes he
made. We
> talked to him and he laughed and
acknowledged that
> right away. I agree with him. So now, I
ask, when I
> was at C37, did I see any Grega's? Are they
welcome at
> Brodhead? Dumb questions, I know. I have
another
> friend, building a corvair Grega. I like
the C 65's.
> What is the feeling of plans modifications.
Would hate
> to fly up there and have to hide in the
trees.
>
> My buddy who is building the pure Piet, got
to ride in
> two of the Continental planes, one of which
was Chucks
> from Kansas.
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
> __________________________________
start. We finish.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
=============================
Forum -
through the Contributions
banner ads or any other
Matronics Forums.
>
=============================
http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
=============================
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/subscription
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/search
http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
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http://www.matronics.com/chat
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
=============================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about heritage |
I agree, take for instance the engine cowl for a A-65,,,there is not a
single,, solitary,, one that is the same as anyone elses!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question about heritage
>
> The drawings are vague enough to allow
> "personal interpretation".
> If it looks remotely like a Pietenpol it will
> be warmly welcomed at Brodhead
> and you can display it with pride.
> Don't get too hung up on "Pietenpol Purity".
> Everybody has their own definition.
>
> Greg Cardinal
> Minneapolis
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 8:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question about
> heritage
>
>
> Nelson
> >
> >
> > My buddies and I stopped at Brodhead on the
> way to
> > OSH. He is building a pure Piet and is a
> Model A buff.
> > I am going to ask the absurd question now.
> Having
> > attended Bill Rewey's forum, where he
> suggested that
> > if you change the design, it ain't a
> Pietenpol....he
> > then went through all of his changes he
> made. We
> > talked to him and he laughed and
> acknowledged that
> > right away. I agree with him. So now, I
> ask, when I
> > was at C37, did I see any Grega's? Are they
> welcome at
> > Brodhead? Dumb questions, I know. I have
> another
> > friend, building a corvair Grega. I like
> the C 65's.
> > What is the feeling of plans modifications.
> Would hate
> > to fly up there and have to hide in the
> trees.
> >
> > My buddy who is building the pure Piet, got
> to ride in
> > two of the Continental planes, one of which
> was Chucks
> > from Kansas.
> >
> > =====
> > Larry Nelson
> > Springfield, MO
> > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > SV/ Spirit of America
> > ARS WB0JOT
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> start. We finish.
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> =============================
> Forum -
> through the Contributions
> banner ads or any other
> Matronics Forums.
> >
> =============================
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
> >
> =============================
> pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> =============================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | At7000ft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Where do I get the spruce? |
Ron
I got an Air Camper spruce kit from AS for $806. Took a month to get the
order but the wood is real nice.
Rick Holland
Ok guys, I finally got my plans, and while I am studying them for awhile, I
was wondering if I could get some input on where to get the sitka spruce, or
even better, where NOT to get the wood? Also, does anyone out there have a
slightly used builders manual they would be willing to part with at a
reasonable price? Or is it available online somewhere?
Many thanks,
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Hargrove <ronhargrove(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Where do I get the spruce? |
How long ago was this?
----- Original Message -----
From: at7000ft(at)aol.com <at7000ft(at)aol.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 16:47:58 EDT
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Where do I get the spruce?
Ron
I got an Air Camper spruce kit from AS for $806. Took a month to get
the order but the wood is real nice.
Rick Holland
Ok guys, I finally got my plans, and while I am studying them for awhile, I
was wondering if I could get some input on where to get the sitka spruce, or
even better, where NOT to get the wood? Also, does anyone out there have a
slightly used builders manual they would be willing to part with at a
reasonable price? Or is it available online somewhere?
Many thanks,
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question about heritage |
Larry:
This was my first trip to Brodhead and it won't be my last. I have a GN-1
and a Pietenpol project and I didn't catch flak from either side when I was
talking to people at Brodhead. I met a bunch of really swell people last month.
I suspect there could have been a few sourpusses and "purists" in the group,
(although I didn't personally encounter any) but sourpusses are in the
minority. 99% of the folks at Brodhead in my opinion were open minded. Did you
see
the Subaru powered Pietenpol? It probably drew the biggest crowd of any airplane
there, Jenny included. I guess some folks would not call it a Pietenpol
because the builder deviated from the plans, but what is important is the guy who
built it was totally pleased with what his end result was. And I came away very
impressed about Corvair powered Air Campers. (Just don't tell Ralph Nader,
the biggest sour puss of them all!)
We formed TACO (Texas Air Camper Organization) down here in Texas and we are
open to anyone, Grega guys or Pietenpol guys, and we don't care if you are
making a wood or tube fuselage. Hey, this is America, let freedom ring!
Sourpusses are like those guys back in our high school days who either were Chevy
guys
or Ford guys. We feel if you are a guy (or gal) flying a wood and fabric
airplane you are pretty cool despite what it is powered with and despite if you
followed plans to the infinite degree. We don't make fun of anyone flying a Ford
engine, Corvair, or Continental. If the powerplant gets you airborne and can
keep you in the sky safely, more "power" to you. Bernard Pietenpol was a true
"experimenter" and fiddled with engines other than the old Ford powerplant.
And we don't mean to belittle the folks who want to follow Bernard's design
to the exact nut and bolt. That's fine too.
Come down and visit us sometime, we aren't clannish, we just like all folks
who like old looking airplanes! Whenever our Big Burrito (TACO President Terry
Bowden) throws another bash, you won't have to hide in our woods, even if you
show up in a Spam can, although you might get some gentle ribbing about
owning a Spam Can. This group down south will be real happy to see you and your
buddies.
Sterling Brooks (TACO LOCO)
Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch
5TA6, San Antonio Sectional
NOTAMS... Fresh Cowchips on runway, land at your own risk.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about heritage |
Larry, Build your airplane to suit you. There are so many different variations,
the hard core pureists can't rag us all down. Mister Pietenpol himself used
about every engine there was. Long fuselages versus short, Flop or no flop...maybe
a cutout, one piece wing or three piece, Spring gear or bunji....better
yet strait axle. The key is to have fun. I recommend Mike Cuy's video and
spending a lot of time at DJ's web site. Both have a lot of useful info.
Jim Dallas
Benton Ks
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Nelson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question about heritage
My buddies and I stopped at Brodhead on the way to
OSH. He is building a pure Piet and is a Model A buff.
I am going to ask the absurd question now. Having
attended Bill Rewey's forum, where he suggested that
if you change the design, it ain't a Pietenpol....he
then went through all of his changes he made. We
talked to him and he laughed and acknowledged that
right away. I agree with him. So now, I ask, when I
was at C37, did I see any Grega's? Are they welcome at
Brodhead? Dumb questions, I know. I have another
friend, building a corvair Grega. I like the C 65's.
What is the feeling of plans modifications. Would hate
to fly up there and have to hide in the trees.
My buddy who is building the pure Piet, got to ride in
two of the Continental planes, one of which was Chucks
from Kansas.
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | question about heritage |
I just got back from OSH tonight. In the wood tent at the show there is a Piet
under construction by the crew for Paul Poberezney (sp?). He came up with lots
of modifications on his including 1/4 x 1/4 ribs. Maybe Doc Mosher would like
to comment further on that project. The Piet was a work in progress over
the life of BHP. I think it is in the spirit of the creator to continue his thinking.
Another subject. I was set to leave for Broadhead last week when some problems
came up and I couldn't go. So I went to OSH hoping to fill that void. Is it
just me or is that whole show not what it used to be. The afternoon airshow
featured three Bi planes in the air, one with the jet engine and at the same time
there were 2 Semi trucks on the runway with jet engines shooting flame from
every orfice. They had a drag race with monster explosions.
In the ultralight area there was a powered parachute with a jet engine.
Please dont try a jet engine on a Piet.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: question about heritage |
Dick, I agree!! Went to Brodhead this year for the first time....and was the
best time I've had in years at flyin's. OSH has grown into something I'm not,
somewhere they forgot their roots. Planning on Brodhead again next year and
the SAA flyin. I've heard its what EAA was like in its younger years.
Jim Dallas
Let the Flames Begin
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 10:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: question about heritage
I just got back from OSH tonight. In the wood tent at the show there is a Piet
under construction by the crew for Paul Poberezney (sp?). He came up with
lots of modifications on his including 1/4 x 1/4 ribs. Maybe Doc Mosher would
like to comment further on that project. The Piet was a work in progress over
the life of BHP. I think it is in the spirit of the creator to continue his
thinking.
Another subject. I was set to leave for Broadhead last week when some problems
came up and I couldn't go. So I went to OSH hoping to fill that void. Is
it just me or is that whole show not what it used to be. The afternoon airshow
featured three Bi planes in the air, one with the jet engine and at the same
time there were 2 Semi trucks on the runway with jet engines shooting flame from
every orfice. They had a drag race with monster explosions.
In the ultralight area there was a powered parachute with a jet engine.
Please dont try a jet engine on a Piet.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: question about heritage |
I got there monday and tuesday and I was noticing that there were a lack of planes
there too. There seemed to be far fewer military planes in the area where
there used to be a lot of them. There were a lot of areas where in the past years
there were planes and this year there seemed to be more grass.
Not too many ultralights either, a lot of powered parachutes though! A few
years ago, in the morning there would be a dozen or two flying around. Not any
more.They did fly all day tuesday though.
I saw Poberezneys Piet also with the 1/4" ribs. The wood person who built the
wing said Mr. P. noticed that the ribs on many similar planes were 1/4" and
decided to go with that size. Mr. Poberezney is an aircraft designer from years
past and is probably qualified to make that judgement. Did you notice the front
spar was larger on his wing? They were also adding verticals to the ribs
where the drag wires would contact the rib and were going to notch the original
piece.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 10:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: question about heritage
I just got back from OSH tonight. In the wood tent at the show there is a Piet
under construction by the crew for Paul Poberezney (sp?). He came up with
lots of modifications on his including 1/4 x 1/4 ribs. Maybe Doc Mosher would
like to comment further on that project. The Piet was a work in progress over
the life of BHP. I think it is in the spirit of the creator to continue his
thinking.
Another subject. I was set to leave for Broadhead last week when some problems
came up and I couldn't go. So I went to OSH hoping to fill that void. Is
it just me or is that whole show not what it used to be. The afternoon airshow
featured three Bi planes in the air, one with the jet engine and at the same
time there were 2 Semi trucks on the runway with jet engines shooting flame from
every orfice. They had a drag race with monster explosions.
In the ultralight area there was a powered parachute with a jet engine.
Please dont try a jet engine on a Piet.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: question about heritage |
I go to OSH for the renewal of personal "spirit" and
rarely even watch the airshow anymore. (when everyone
is at the airshow, there is more room to go through
the exhibits and look that the various airplanes.)
It is an old complaint that the homebuilts are getting
a smaller piece of the pie (unless they are RV's).
So...what started it all is now located in the
boonies.
This is why I had so much fun at Brodhead. I will be
there next year early next year.
--- Richard Navratil wrote:
> I just got back from OSH tonight. In the wood tent
> at the show there is a Piet under construction by
> the crew for Paul Poberezney (sp?). He came up with
> lots of modifications on his including 1/4 x 1/4
> ribs. Maybe Doc Mosher would like to comment
> further on that project. The Piet was a work in
> progress over the life of BHP. I think it is in the
> spirit of the creator to continue his thinking.
>
> Another subject. I was set to leave for Broadhead
> last week when some problems came up and I couldn't
> go. So I went to OSH hoping to fill that void. Is
> it just me or is that whole show not what it used to
> be. The afternoon airshow featured three Bi planes
> in the air, one with the jet engine and at the same
> time there were 2 Semi trucks on the runway with jet
> engines shooting flame from every orfice. They had
> a drag race with monster explosions.
> In the ultralight area there was a powered parachute
> with a jet engine.
>
> Please dont try a jet engine on a Piet.
> Dick N.
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: question about heritage |
Sorry you couldn't make Brodhead Dick....It was the best year yet, and it was the
first cross country flight with my vair powered sonex. I forgot to bring my
camera, so thanks for everyone that posted pics. Also....did someone happen
to get any pics of the row of planes where my plane was parked in line with Williams
Zenvair? I would like some if you anyone has any. I recieved my first ride
in a piet from Mankato Mn, thanks much.....gotta get mine done....
Del
James Dallas wrote:
Dick, I agree!! Went to Brodhead this year for the first time....and was the
best time I've had in years at flyin's. OSH has grown into something I'm not,
somewhere they forgot their roots. Planning on Brodhead again next year and
the SAA flyin. I've heard its what EAA was like in its younger years.
Jim Dallas
Let the Flames Begin
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
Subject: Pietenpol-List: question about heritage
I just got back from OSH tonight. In the wood tent at the show there is a Piet
under construction by the crew for Paul Poberezney (sp?). He came up with lots
of modifications on his including 1/4 x 1/4 ribs. Maybe Doc Mosher would like
to comment further on that project. The Piet was a work in progress over
the life of BHP. I think it is in the spirit of the creator to continue his thinking.
Another subject. I was set to leave for Broadhead last week when some problems
came up and I couldn't go. So I went to OSH hoping to fill that void. Is it
just me or is that whole show not what it used to be. The afternoon airshow
featured three Bi planes in the air, one with the jet engine and at the same time
there were 2 Semi trucks on the runway with jet engines shooting flame from
every orfice. They had a drag race with monster explosions.
In the ultralight area there was a powered parachute with a jet engine.
Please dont try a jet engine on a Piet.
Dick N.
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Tee shirts (BYOP) being mailed today. |
BYOP (Build Your Own Pietenpol) tee shirts are being mailed today, for those
on the list to receive them. I suspect the shirts will reach their final
destinations by Friday.
I still have some left in Medium, Large and Extra Large. They are $12.75
mailed to you anywhere in the USA. This is my cost, I make not a dime in profit,
just spreading the word about this nifty little bird and the guy who designed
it (the airplane, not the shirt...)
Either one of the below links should take you to a picture where you can gawk
at the design which is on 100% cotton.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=210
or
http://www.byop.us ... a cheesy, cheap website from the shamless commerce
division of TACO guys.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Mountain Piet (Subaru power) |
Note to those who didn't get to Brodhead and are curious about the "Subaru
powered Piet" mentioned in several posts here. That Piet is the beautiful
creation of John Dilatush, who I had the pleasure and privilege of meeting
in person last summer. I got to photograph his airplane and I put the
photos up on a webpage, at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html
"Mountain Piet" is a beauty.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com> |
Use the 90 deg ply, just remember to put a thin coat of epoxy on the inside
of the gusset before you glue it into position. That saves you having to
epoxy varnish it after the rib is built when those nooks and crevices are
hard to get to. Definitely put the vertical piece in the rib to
adhere to the rear of each spar. It keeps the ribs equally in position and
the you don't have to use those nails into the top and bottom of the spar
(which weakens the capstrip).
Jeff Hill in Texas starting on the 2nd piet
Discover the best of the best at MSN Luxury Living. http://lexus.msn.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | 75th anniversary t-shirts |
Guys-- if any of you were fortunate enough to meet Randy Bruce at Brodhead
you'll note that he's quite a fun guy and like Larry said, a talented
artist. His Pietenpol was just GORGEOUS when I saw it for the 70th
gathering five years back but I hear he's no longer got it. Those
t-shirts must be super and I'm going to order one up to support the
cause. How many guys are we going to have finished and flying FIVE years
from now for the 80th gathering ? I'll turn 50 that year so I'm already
making plans to go !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | go here for more pics of Brodhead |
From the desk, er computer of the fine Grant MacLaren............
http://www.specializedwholesale.com/grantsstuff/brodhead04/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing ribs - 2 questions |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
Hi Jake,
As one building wing ribs myself right now, and who benefited a lot from
Charlie Rubeck's workshop at Brodhead, a couple of points:
A) The vertical strut inside the spar, per plans, isn't totally
necessary but is a good idea for two reasons
1) You can nail the rib to the spar from the inside, the
better way Bingelis recommends, rather than from the top and bottom
capstrips the way B.H.P. did.
2) You DON'T need the damn wedges between the top of each
spar and the capstrip, because the strut bears the load for which the
wedges were required (this according to Charlie). That saves a lot of
grief later on when assembling the wing.
B) Struts on outside as well as inside of spar is overkill.
C) Don't trust copies of the full-scale plan. I paid $7 for a
vellum copy to use on my jig, only to find that the Kinko machine had
expanded it some in all directions. The full-scale plan, in fact, does
not exactly agree with B.H.P.'s measurements, and I wound up lofting his
measurements to the jig. I did fix the copy to the inside of the jig
for brace and strut placement which I didn't think was as critical as
the spar and outside wing measurements. And I used a trace of his plan
to make the curve for the capstrip-bending jig.
I'm in the middle of a ton of scanning of Brodhead and other pix, and
I'll have pix of my construction on a website in a week or so (I
hope)--stay tuned. The Brodhead pix I'll send to matronics photoshare
in a couple of days (I hope). Someday I'll finish the ribs.
Mark Hodgson
Beantown
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Bill Rewey, Brooks, Ganzter, Dilatush, Sloan, and more |
!
Thank you Sterling for mailing the nice TACO ID badge. Looks so official
I could have gotten into work this morning with it. Way to go Chuck and
John D. for making the long trips. Heard tons of compliments on the Rocky
Mountain Piet. Got to see Bill Rewey put on a very good Pietenpol Forum
at OSH Tuesday and meet some good Piet folks there. Bill was wearing
Sterling's BYOP (build your own Pietenpol) t-shirt too during his talk and
thanked Sterling for putting the shirt in Bill's cockpit. Sorry I missed
meeting you there, Sterling.
There was a big crowd for Bill's talk and an even Bigger crowd, including
William Wynne and Grace Ellen to see our own Alex Sloan, Pietenpol builder
receive the Bingelis Award at the Homebuilder's Dinner which recognizes an
individual's contributions to the homebuilt-aircraft community, and honors
the memory and involvement of the late Tony Bingelis. Here is a photo of
Alex and his award from last Thursday evening. L-R, Mike C., Doc
Mosher, Grace Ellen, Alex Sloan, & William Wynne.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: question about heritage |
No, I didn't notice the spar. I did hear some grumbling from the crew working
on it about some of the many modifications not working out as planned.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Engelkenjohn
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: question about heritage
I got there monday and tuesday and I was noticing that there were a lack of planes
there too. There seemed to be far fewer military planes in the area where
there used to be a lot of them. There were a lot of areas where in the past
years there were planes and this year there seemed to be more grass.
Not too many ultralights either, a lot of powered parachutes though! A few
years ago, in the morning there would be a dozen or two flying around. Not any
more.They did fly all day tuesday though.
I saw Poberezneys Piet also with the 1/4" ribs. The wood person who built
the wing said Mr. P. noticed that the ribs on many similar planes were 1/4" and
decided to go with that size. Mr. Poberezney is an aircraft designer from years
past and is probably qualified to make that judgement. Did you notice the
front spar was larger on his wing? They were also adding verticals to the ribs
where the drag wires would contact the rib and were going to notch the original
piece.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 10:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: question about heritage
I just got back from OSH tonight. In the wood tent at the show there is a
Piet under construction by the crew for Paul Poberezney (sp?). He came up with
lots of modifications on his including 1/4 x 1/4 ribs. Maybe Doc Mosher would
like to comment further on that project. The Piet was a work in progress over
the life of BHP. I think it is in the spirit of the creator to continue his
thinking.
Another subject. I was set to leave for Broadhead last week when some problems
came up and I couldn't go. So I went to OSH hoping to fill that void. Is
it just me or is that whole show not what it used to be. The afternoon airshow
featured three Bi planes in the air, one with the jet engine and at the same
time there were 2 Semi trucks on the runway with jet engines shooting flame
from every orfice. They had a drag race with monster explosions.
In the ultralight area there was a powered parachute with a jet engine.
Please dont try a jet engine on a Piet.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet (Subaru power) |
Oscar,
Pics are great!
I have a question,,,,,I'm thinking of putting dihedral into the wing of my
completed/flying Piet. One of the drawbacks was that I had to remake the
main wing struts cause they would have to be longer. I noticed in the pics
of Johns plane that he added adjusting forks to the bottom of a normal
straight streamlined strut tube. Do you know if that fitting is available?
I could add that to the bottom of my existing tube to get the length that I
need.
thanks
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet (Subaru power)
>
> Note to those who didn't get to Brodhead and are curious about the "Subaru
> powered Piet" mentioned in several posts here. That Piet is the beautiful
> creation of John Dilatush, who I had the pleasure and privilege of meeting
> in person last summer. I got to photograph his airplane and I put the
> photos up on a webpage, at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html
>
> "Mountain Piet" is a beauty.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | adjustable fork ends for lift struts |
Walt-- I bought my "weldable threaded 4130 barrels" from Wicks and welded
them in all four
lift struts at the lower end and then had some used fork ends which I had
magnafluxed before
I used them. You can get some dihedral this way and adjust washout and
raise a low wing
if she's flying out of rig slightly. A simple way that Bernie did this
tho was to make new attach
straps up at the wing ends and drill the holes where you want your wing to
be. I do think his plans
show those straps with multiple holes so you can do some fiddle/adjusting.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
To those of you with flying airplanes, what is the recommended amount of washout
at the wingtips?
With the wing roots level, how much should the trailing edge of the wingtips be
above level?
We have the dihedral set at 1 3/8".
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Laurits Larsen" <pietlars(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trig help... |
Hi,
I have been using some trig for working out angles, etc., all along. I find that
an 'el cheapo' scientifc calculator works great. ( Saw one advertised recently
for $6.99.) Makes it easy to work both ways, i.e find the angle or find
the rise/run measurements from the angle.
Lou Larsen, (back in steamy Florida after the comfortable Brodhead weather.)
----- Original Message -----
From: N925WB1(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trig help...
Jim,
All those angles and measurements can be done with the Sine, Cosine, & Tangent
formulas. Pretty simple stuff once you get the hang of it. I'll have to admit,
though, having a program that calculates it all for you is much easier!
-Wayne
In a message dated 7/31/2004 9:38:31 PM Central Daylight Time, jim_markle(at)mindspring.com
writes:
I think it's been mentioned before, but thought I would share a great site
I found a while back.
I'm checking some wing angles/rises/slopes/etc and needed to know the exact
angle for a 1" rise at the wingtip....and this site makes quick work of it.
Go here: http://www.engineersedge.com/calculators/triangle_solution_menu.htm and there are a bunch of right triangle formulaes that make the numbers quick and easy (unless you have a Smoley's...and if you know what THAT is, you're an older antique than myself!)
I think I once heard someone say they put in about 1 1/2 degrees of dihedral
so they would have an inch or so at the wingtip....NOT. 1 1/2 degrees at (approx)
161" gives a bit more than 4" of rise....ok, it doesn't really matter at
this point, but it sure is nice to have a quick and easy check of the numbers!
Jim in Plano
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Morris <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com> |
Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
| Subject: | Re: Trig help... |
<00cc01c478de$86d0cc00$4c01b341@lmz349ey3cm6h1>
Try using the calculator that comes with Windows (in accessories, if you
installed it). Just set the "view" to scientific, and it will sine,
cosine, and tangent to your heart's content.
-Don
Laurits Larsen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have been using some trig for working out angles, etc., all along.
> I find that an 'el cheapo' scientifc calculator works great. ( Saw
> one advertised recently for $6.99.) Makes it easy to work both ways,
> i.e find the angle or find the rise/run measurements from the angle.
>
> Lou Larsen, (back in steamy Florida after the comfortable Brodhead
> weather.)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: N925WB1(at)aol.com <mailto:N925WB1(at)aol.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 12:06 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trig help...
>
> Jim,
>
> All those angles and measurements can be done with the Sine,
> Cosine, & Tangent formulas. Pretty simple stuff once you get the
> hang of it. I'll have to admit, though, having a program that
> calculates it all for you is much easier!
>
> -Wayne
>
> In a message dated 7/31/2004 9:38:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
> jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
>
> I think it's been mentioned before, but thought I would share
> a great site I found a while back.
>
> I'm checking some wing angles/rises/slopes/etc and needed to
> know the exact angle for a 1" rise at the wingtip....and this
> site makes quick work of it.
>
> Go here:
> http://www.engineersedge.com/calculators/triangle_solution_menu.htm
> and there are a bunch of right triangle formulaes that make
> the numbers quick and easy (unless you have a Smoley's...and
> if you know what THAT is, you're an older antique than myself!)
>
> I think I once heard someone say they put in about 1 1/2
> degrees of dihedral so they would have an inch or so at the
> wingtip....NOT. 1 1/2 degrees at (approx) 161" gives a bit
> more than 4" of rise....ok, it doesn't really matter at this
> point, but it sure is nice to have a quick and easy check of
> the numbers!
>
> Jim in Plano
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jake Crause" <admin(at)homebuiltairplanes.com> |
| Subject: | Wing ribs - 2 questions |
report
Jeff, Mark, and Dick,
Thanks for the replies. It looks like the single vertical brace is the
way to go. I won't double brace it like I originally thought of doing.
I just got my copies of the full size wing rib back and they were both
elongated by 1/4 inch. Oh well.
Jake Crause
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Mountain Piet- rigging |
Walt writes-
>I'm thinking of putting dihedral into the wing of my completed/flying Piet.
Have you flown one with dihedral and determined that it was more stable than
with the flat wing? I have heard that there are drawbacks as well as minor
benefits, but the one who could tell you right away would be Mike Cuy since
he has very definite dihedral in his wing and has experience with other
planes that don't have any. (By the way- there will have to be some sort of
initiation party for Mike when he turns 40... have all the TACO guys form a
gauntlet of juicy, dripping tacos that Mike has to run through, hot sauce,
pouring beer, something).
>I noticed in the pics of Johns plane that he added adjusting forks to the
>bottom
>of a normal straight streamlined strut tube. Do you know if that fitting
>is available?
I've seen the same detail any number of places, even in the old Flying &
Glider Manuals (I think), as well as Bingelis' books (I think). I don't
believe it's a standard fitting so much as it is a combination of welded-in
nuts with a fork for the adjustment. Mike says he has adjustments available
at both ends of the strut, but that seems like overkill to me and may be not
a great idea at the top of the strut, which I would think you want to have
closed shut to keep anything from getting into the strut. Plus, depending
on how your jury struts are attached to the main struts, if you change the
attachment of the top of the strut to the wing, the jury struts get messed
up. That is, if the jury strut attach points are fixed in place, as are the
ones on "Mountain Piet" (not clamped, as are most).
>I could add that to the bottom of my existing tube to get the length that I
>need.
Yep. But I can't be of more help because there was so much to see on John's
Piet that it was all I could do to just ooh and aah and snap pictures
without thinking about details. And John was feeling bad about not taking
me up for a ride in the plane, while a howling wind was blowing outside the
hangar. I'd have to guess it was at least 30MPH and definitely not right
down the runway! We watched somebody in a Scout or Champ or something,
abort a couple of times. Not a good time to be Pietenpoling!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | adjustable fork ends |
Belay that last. I just re-read Mike's post regarding how he did his
adjustable struts and I was wrong... he only has adjustment at the lower
ends of the struts, not top & bottom.
Now back to thinking of a good "Over the Hill" initiation rite for Mike's
40th.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
brakes, generator, and nose tank
| Subject: | an original Pietenpol with a radio, battery, tailwheel, |
brakes, generator, and nose tank
This is too cool.....it shows why so many of the different versions that
Bernard Pietenpol built (23 I think) were all originals !
This paragraph below found
at: http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/FrameRightProductInformation.html
When Chevrolet introduced the Corvair automobile in 1960, it was powered
with a flat six cylinder air cooled engine. It seemed a good candidate for
a low cost, reliable engine to replace the Ford A engine. Mr. Pietenpol
built two more airplanes, one in 1960 and another in 1964, both powered
with Corvair engines. The basic airplane design remained unchanged. The
fuselage was lengthened to compensate for the lighter engine, the pilot and
passenger leg room increased, and brakes and a tail wheel were installed.
An additional eight gallon fuel tank was installed in the nose. A radio,
generator and battery were also incorporated into the design. The Corvair
engine was lighter and more powerful than the Ford A. With the Corvair
engine, the Air Camper performance improved, the ride was more quiet,
smooth, and fuel efficient.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
tailwheel, brakes, generator, and nose tank
| Subject: | Re: an original Pietenpol with a radio, battery, tailwheel, |
brakes, generator, and nose tank
also consider that when Bernie tried the Corvair it was with an Early model
engine that produced 85hp in a car. He kept the blower fan on the engine
and used the stock cam.
I'd guess he was getting no more than 55 or 60hp to the prop.
Now days we use the late model (65-69) 110hp engine with a cam (OT-10) that
brings the powerband down into lower rpm's and the fan is removed. That fan
can rob more horsepower than you might think.
Conversions of today can expect to see near 100hp. More if you wind up the
prop a little more like the KR guys are doing.
Guys who are second guessing a Corvair conversion should take the time to
see (and hear) one in person. It'll make a believer out of you.
my Corvair beauty here (before I removed the crappy Aerocarb)
http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/images/corvair/engine-on-stand-2.jpg
DJ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: an original Pietenpol with a radio, battery,
tailwheel, brakes, generator, and nose tank
>
> This is too cool.....it shows why so many of the different versions that
> Bernard Pietenpol built (23 I think) were all originals !
>
> This paragraph below found
> at:
http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/FrameRightProductInformation.html
>
> When Chevrolet introduced the Corvair automobile in 1960, it was powered
> with a flat six cylinder air cooled engine. It seemed a good candidate for
> a low cost, reliable engine to replace the Ford A engine. Mr. Pietenpol
> built two more airplanes, one in 1960 and another in 1964, both powered
> with Corvair engines. The basic airplane design remained unchanged. The
> fuselage was lengthened to compensate for the lighter engine, the pilot
and
> passenger leg room increased, and brakes and a tail wheel were installed.
> An additional eight gallon fuel tank was installed in the nose. A radio,
> generator and battery were also incorporated into the design. The Corvair
> engine was lighter and more powerful than the Ford A. With the Corvair
> engine, the Air Camper performance improved, the ride was more quiet,
> smooth, and fuel efficient.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 75th anniversary hats. |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Better late than never?
Who would be interested? I'm attaching the sew-out.
Front is the logo, back is the lettering.
Best regards,
Steve E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 75th anniversary hats. |
Steve,
The embriodery looks great, but I'm not into hats. Ever discussed the option of
putting that on a nice "T" shirt? I'd be up for that. Just my two cents.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 6:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 75th anniversary hats.
Better late than never?
Who would be interested? I'm attaching the sew-out.
Front is the logo, back is the lettering.
Best regards,
Steve E
________________________________________________________________________________
Does somebody has an old set of plans and is able to send it to my country (Argentina)?
I will pay for it. I just have the F&GM and because of the exchange
rate (I have to multiply everything by 3) the Don's plans became not affordable
to me. Thank you very much.
Santiago Morete
100mb gratis, Antivirus y Antispam
Tenelo ya!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.net" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | end-spinach hinge routing jig |
Anyone use a jig to route in their rudder / elevator hinges flush? I'm thinking
of making one and how to do it but maybe someone else has already gone to the
trouble of designing one. Should be pretty simple....
I'm glad to be back into building after a long hiatus. It was great to meet a
few folks at Brodhead and to see the variety of piets. Hopefully I can still
reach my goal of geting the fuse and tail sections completed and varnished by
the end of summer. Not too much further to go.
Tom Brant
Brooklyn Park, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "erik finster" <es_finster(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | 75th anniversary hats. |
Dear Steve I would be interested, My Name is Erik Billing I have just
completed my wing rib jig for a Pietenpol Aircamper and would like to get
Maybe 4 Hats if possible Thank You I am ERIK.S.BILLING
>From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: 75th anniversary hats. Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004
>
>Better late than never?
>
>
>Who would be interested? I'm attaching the sew-out.
>
>
>Front is the logo, back is the lettering.
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>
>Steve E
>
><< aircamper.jpg >>
Take advantage of powerful junk e-mail filters built on patented Microsoft
SmartScreen Technology.
Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN Premium right now and get the
first two months FREE*.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: end-spinach hinge routing jig |
Tom
Go here and check out how easily it can be done (Joe Krzes's web page).
http://www.hal-pc.org/~hjkr/hingeslots.htm
I followed this method but routed the slots after I had the tail section
fully built. This way I was sure every thing would line up perfectly.
However if I screwed up, I would have had to building a new tail.
Fortunately its such a fool proof method it worked great.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento,. CA
----- Original Message -----
From: <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: end-spinach hinge routing jig
>
>
> Anyone use a jig to route in their rudder / elevator hinges flush? I'm
thinking of making one and how to do it but maybe someone else has already
gone to the trouble of designing one. Should be pretty simple....
>
> I'm glad to be back into building after a long hiatus. It was great to
meet a few folks at Brodhead and to see the variety of piets. Hopefully I
can still reach my goal of geting the fuse and tail sections completed and
varnished by the end of summer. Not too much further to go.
>
> Tom Brant
> Brooklyn Park, MN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | SHIRT FIRST, ASK QUESTIONS LATER |
Maybe I've had one too many Coronas trying to stay cool down here in Texas
near the Mexican border this August, but I'm so thirsting (I mean trusting) of
this Air Camper family that I'm willing to mail your Build Your Own Pietenpol
shirt first, then receive payment. (My wife says I can no longer use the bed in
the guest room to store my BYOP shirts on... (Whew, I'm glad she didn't say
anything about the Coronas!) "OUT THEY GO," says management!
If you will e-mail me your physical address and advise what size shirt you
wear, I'll mail the shirt. Thus, my reasoning for SHIRT FIRST, ASK QUESTIONS
LATER.
I'll include with your shirt, and a self-addressed, prepaid Knot-2-Shabby
Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch envelope for you to return your payment in.
The total cost for shirt, D.J. Vegh's artist royalty fee for the Air Camper
drawing, shipping, tax, title and license (or "the whole enchilada" as we say
in Texas) is $12.75.
In lieu of $12.75, you can send 6 ice cold Coronas.
*********************** BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! *********************
Provide a picture of your attractive face, and I'll also send you a TACO ID
card with your 100% cotton BYOP shirt. The TACO ID card is so authentic looking
(when you have it laminated at KINKOS in your town) you might get past
security at the next EAA fly in, or at least you can crash the next TACO meeting.
This offer void where prohibited by law, or a mean wife.
Batteries not included.
Some restrictions apply.
Must be over 21 to qualify.
Not valid outside the contiguous continental United States.
Residents of the state of Arkansas must make payment in advance.
Gracias,
Sterling Brooks, TACO Loco
WWW.BYOP.US
WWW.STERLINGBROOKS.TV
WWW.HOMELESSDOGS.US
"One Corona, two Corona, three Corona, floor..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com> |
Oscar writes-
> Have you flown one with dihedral and determined that it was more stable than
with the flat wing?
Oscar,
I can tell you that having anhedral (opposite of dihedral) certainly will make
a believer out of anyone. Full stall landings were a challenge even without a
cross-wind and performing a stall would always result in a wing dropping off.
I finally stretched a string from tip to tip and discovered that they were lower
than the center section. Can't really speak for a straight wing because
I haven't measure every plane I've flown but those with a small amount of dihedral
(appearance) seemed to handle better.
I think I read, heard or dreamt that Mr. Pietenpol had two guys lift up on the
wing tips when taking his measurements for his struts and thus ended up with a
small amount of dihedral with the "flat" one-piece wing.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Rigging |
| From: | john e fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
> To those of you with flying airplanes, what is the recommended amount
> of washout at the wingtips?
> With the wing roots level, how much should the trailing edge of the
> wingtips be above level?
Greg,
My memory, from some of the forums that Vi Kaplar (sp.?) gave several
years ago, was to raise the rear spar 3/8 inch, out at its end. He said
that BHP liked to rig his with no washout, which gives a slightly sharper
stall. He likened it to the way a luscombe will stall, in contrast to a
cub.
John Fay
in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 75th anniversary hats. |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
T-Shirts or Sweatshirts could easily be done if I have 6 or so takers.
I was also thinking about having some fleece throws done too.
Hats are $20 shipped in the US.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
evans
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 75th anniversary hats.
Steve,
The embriodery looks great, but I'm not into hats. Ever discussed the
option of putting that on a nice "T" shirt? I'd be up for that. Just
my two cents.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge <mailto:steve(at)byu.edu>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 6:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 75th anniversary hats.
Better late than never?
Who would be interested? I'm attaching the sew-out.
Front is the logo, back is the lettering.
Best regards,
Steve E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "erik finster" <es_finster(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | 75th anniversary hats. |
Dear Steve My Name is Erik Billing I live in Windsor Ontario Canada and I
just Finished my Wing Rib Jig for my Pietenpol Aircamper, when completed it
will have 22" Motorcycle Wheels and a 65 Hp Contenantal Engine. And I would
be VERY INTERESTED in Hats And T-Shirts/Sweatshrits Please let me know S/H
To Canada Thank You Iam Erik.S.Billing
P.S.If you have got an previous email concerning this Sorry I did not know
Weather it went through
>From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 75th anniversary hats.
>Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:57:25 -0600
>
>T-Shirts or Sweatshirts could easily be done if I have 6 or so takers.
>I was also thinking about having some fleece throws done too.
>
>
>Hats are $20 shipped in the US.
>
>
>________________________________
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
>evans
>Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:48 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 75th anniversary hats.
>
>
>Steve,
>
>The embriodery looks great, but I'm not into hats. Ever discussed the
>option of putting that on a nice "T" shirt? I'd be up for that. Just
>my two cents.
>
>walt evans
>NX140DL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Steve Eldredge <mailto:steve(at)byu.edu>
>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 6:38 PM
>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: 75th anniversary hats.
>
>
> Better late than never?
>
>
> Who would be interested? I'm attaching the sew-out.
>
>
> Front is the logo, back is the lettering.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Steve E
>
Take advantage of powerful junk e-mail filters built on patented Microsoft
SmartScreen Technology.
Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN Premium right now and get the
first two months FREE*.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
Can anyone out there enlighten me/us as to the physical difference between
one magneto marked "right hand" and another marked "left hand"??? I know
that's a dumb question, but sometimes one has to expose his ignorance in
order to eradicate it. My understanding is that both mags turn the same
direction. On a slightly different track: can a mag marked "LH" be reworked
to a "RH" configuration?....Carl Vought/Huntsville, AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Phillips" <pphillips(at)kalama.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SHIRT FIRST, ASK QUESTIONS LATER |
I would like to have two of the Piet. shirts. size large.
Phil Phillips
702 Greenwood Rd.
Kalama, Wa 98625
Please reply if you have this size available, and I will get a check in the mail
to you. I think I have your address from a previous post.
Phil Phillips
----- Original Message -----
From: KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:53 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: SHIRT FIRST, ASK QUESTIONS LATER
Maybe I've had one too many Coronas trying to stay cool down here in Texas near
the Mexican border this August, but I'm so thirsting (I mean trusting) of this
Air Camper family that I'm willing to mail your Build Your Own Pietenpol shirt
first, then receive payment. (My wife says I can no longer use the bed in
the guest room to store my BYOP shirts on... (Whew, I'm glad she didn't say anything
about the Coronas!) "OUT THEY GO," says management!
If you will e-mail me your physical address and advise what size shirt you wear,
I'll mail the shirt. Thus, my reasoning for SHIRT FIRST, ASK QUESTIONS LATER.
I'll include with your shirt, and a self-addressed, prepaid Knot-2-Shabby Airport
& Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch envelope for you to return your payment in.
The total cost for shirt, D.J. Vegh's artist royalty fee for the Air Camper drawing,
shipping, tax, title and license (or "the whole enchilada" as we say in
Texas) is $12.75.
In lieu of $12.75, you can send 6 ice cold Coronas.
*********************** BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! *********************
Provide a picture of your attractive face, and I'll also send you a TACO ID card
with your 100% cotton BYOP shirt. The TACO ID card is so authentic looking
(when you have it laminated at KINKOS in your town) you might get past security
at the next EAA fly in, or at least you can crash the next TACO meeting.
This offer void where prohibited by law, or a mean wife.
Batteries not included.
Some restrictions apply.
Must be over 21 to qualify.
Not valid outside the contiguous continental United States.
Residents of the state of Arkansas must make payment in advance.
Gracias,
Sterling Brooks, TACO Loco
WWW.BYOP.US
WWW.STERLINGBROOKS.TV
WWW.HOMELESSDOGS.US
"One Corona, two Corona, three Corona, floor..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Hargrove <ronhargrove(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Early Corvair engines |
I am just curious as to why the '60-'64 Corvair engines are considered
unsuitable for airplanes. Didn't Bernie use a '60 Corvair engine?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto stuff |
On a Continental and most other aircraft engines...theres no difference....except
one fires the bottom and the other fires the top plugs. If you have an engine
with staggered timing...the mags are still the same...just one is "clocked"
at a slightly different angle. Perhaps some uninformed mechanic marked them
this way thinking there was some difference.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Early Corvair engines |
they are a smaller cubic inch and the crank is less beefy, so it just makes sense
to use a later engine as long as you are going to do it. for more power and
a stronger engine of the same weight.
Del
Ron Hargrove wrote:
I am just curious as to why the '60-'64 Corvair engines are considered
unsuitable for airplanes. Didn't Bernie use a '60 Corvair engine?
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Smith" <lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com> |
Usually, the left hand mag has an impulse coupling that retards the
spark timing for starting. This is normally evident by an additional
mechanism on the drive end.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:35 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Magneto stuff
>
>
>
> On a Continental and most other aircraft engines...theres no
> difference....except one fires the bottom and the other fires
> the top plugs. If you have an engine with staggered
> timing...the mags are still the same...just one is "clocked"
> at a slightly different angle. Perhaps some uninformed
> mechanic marked them this way thinking there was some difference.
>
> --
> Terry L. Bowden
> ph 254-715-4773
> fax 254-853-3805
>
>
>
>
>
> ============
> Matronics Forums.
> ============
> ============
> ============
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Early Corvair engines |
It's not that they aren't suitable, but the later models produce much more
power for the same weight.
Bernie used a '60 because back in '60 when he did it it was pretty hard to
come across a '65. They were awfully rare. :)
The 60-64's are lower horsepower versions. The main difference being the
stroke is shorter giving less displacement.
Starting in '64 some engines were the larger 164cu.in. Then from '65 on
they are all 164cu.in.
It makes no sense to build an early engine for 2 reasons that come to mind
right off the bat.
1. Horsepower - why go with less horsepower for the same weight as a more
powerful engine???
2. Engine parts - I do not believe there is an OT-10 cam available for the
smaller engine nor is there any forged pistons. ( I would never fly behind a
corvair with stock cast pistons.)
Expect to get no more than 60hp or so to the prop on an early model and near
100hp on a late model. (at the RPMs a Piet swings a prop)
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Hargrove" <ronhargrove(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Early Corvair engines
>
> I am just curious as to why the '60-'64 Corvair engines are considered
> unsuitable for airplanes. Didn't Bernie use a '60 Corvair engine?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto stuff |
Something to add about magnetos,,,Since the "flat" gear on the Eisemann
magneto is so expensive, for the impulse side, my Mentor built me a mag with
an impulse and the "deep" gear. Then he made a collar with "fits" the
thickness of the difference, so everything would run true.
Just needed two gaskets and long studs to secure it.
It's fine on an Experimental, and works great. Now with 50 or so hours on
the engine, it starts with a simple flip with the left mag selected.
PS Think the flat gear is over $500.00 retail, while the deep gear is a
dime a dozen.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Smith" <lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Magneto stuff
>
> Usually, the left hand mag has an impulse coupling that retards the
> spark timing for starting. This is normally evident by an additional
> mechanism on the drive end.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
> > Of BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:35 PM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Magneto stuff
> >
> >
> >
> > On a Continental and most other aircraft engines...theres no
> > difference....except one fires the bottom and the other fires
> > the top plugs. If you have an engine with staggered
> > timing...the mags are still the same...just one is "clocked"
> > at a slightly different angle. Perhaps some uninformed
> > mechanic marked them this way thinking there was some difference.
> >
> > --
> > Terry L. Bowden
> > ph 254-715-4773
> > fax 254-853-3805
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ============
> > Matronics Forums.
> > ============
> > ============
> > ============
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 75th anniversary hats. |
I would like to know the price of a sweatshirt in XL and XXL please.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:57 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 75th anniversary hats.
T-Shirts or Sweatshirts could easily be done if I have 6 or so takers. I was
also thinking about having some fleece throws done too.
Hats are $20 shipped in the US.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:48 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 75th anniversary hats.
Steve,
The embriodery looks great, but I'm not into hats. Ever discussed the option
of putting that on a nice "T" shirt? I'd be up for that. Just my two cents.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 6:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 75th anniversary hats.
Better late than never?
Who would be interested? I'm attaching the sew-out.
Front is the logo, back is the lettering.
Best regards,
Steve E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Question from eBay Member |
If anyone knows of anyone thinking about buying the Piet plans advertised on
eBay.....please don't....without EVEN discussing the legalities, it's just
not right to make copies of these plans and sell them.....just ain't
right....
I usually manage to stay out of stuff that isn't any of my concern but I
just couldn't keep quiet about this one....
This is the reply I got to an inquiry about where he was getting the
plans.....
----- Original Message -----
From: <mackpaul60(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Question from eBay Member
Dear dfwplt,
All the Pientepol plans I have for sale are copies of the originals. Hope
this helps.
To respond to this eBay member go to:
http://contact.ebay.com/ws1/ebayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserEmail&requested=mgp60&frm=-1&iid=-1&de=off&redirect=0&contactsubmit=Contact+Member
Thank you,
mgp60
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com |
I have to apologize in advance for a delay in sending tee shirts. I''ll be
out of pocket for a week or longer making funeral arrangements at an out-of-town
location and I'll work on sending out BYOP shirts as soon as I can. I
probably won't be able to access e-mail or respond to mail during this period either.
Thanks for your consideration.
Sterling Brooks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Hargrove <ronhargrove(at)gmail.com> |
My condolences to you and yours. Don't fret about something as minor
as shirts right now.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: kts5ta6(at)wmconnect.com <kts5ta6(at)wmconnect.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 19:53:04 EDT
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shirt delay
I have to apologize in advance for a delay in sending tee shirts.
I''ll be out of pocket for a week or longer making funeral
arrangements at an out-of-town location and I'll work on sending out
BYOP shirts as soon as I can. I probably won't be able to access
e-mail or respond to mail during this period either.
Thanks for your consideration.
Sterling Brooks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto stuff |
Many thanks to Walt Evans, Ed Smith and Terry Bowden for their inputs on
Magnetos. I feel a lot better and less ignorant. I have an old Slick 4250
mag and an impulse coupler.I bought an A-Model engine side-drive from Ken
Perkins at Brodhead last week. I'm prepared to have the mag rebuilt if I
can make this combination work on my engine....Carl Vought/Huntssville, AL
wrote :
>
> Can anyone out there enlighten me/us as to the physical difference
between
> one magneto marked "right hand" and another marked "left hand"??? I know
> that's a dumb question, but sometimes one has to expose his ignorance in
> order to eradicate it. My understanding is that both mags turn the same
> direction. On a slightly different track: can a mag marked "LH" be
reworked
> to a "RH" configuration?....Carl Vought/Huntsville, AL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Morris <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com> |
Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
| Subject: | Re: Magneto stuff |
<000e01c47a67$85c3fa50$2cc5fea9@home>
Hi.
Two things - there is the right and left magneto on the engine
(obviously). However, the RH and the LH does not refer to this, if I
understand correctly. This is actually the direction of spin of the
magneto. Both mags on the engine will be either RH or LH, because you
are correct - they both spin the same direction. Inside the mag, there
will be two sets of timing marks on the distributor gear, and one will
be marked RH and the other LH. The internal timing is set differently.
I am not sure if the timing is the only difference - there may be other
small physical changes. What type of mag are you working with? I may
be able to look it up, as we have a number of books at the A&P school
that I attend.
-Don
> Can anyone out there enlighten me/us as to the physical difference between
> one magneto marked "right hand" and another marked "left hand"??? I know
> that's a dumb question, but sometimes one has to expose his ignorance in
> order to eradicate it. My understanding is that both mags turn the same
> direction. On a slightly different track: can a mag marked "LH" be reworked
> to a "RH" configuration?
walt evans wrote:
>
>Something to add about magnetos,,,Since the "flat" gear on the Eisemann
>magneto is so expensive, for the impulse side, my Mentor built me a mag with
>an impulse and the "deep" gear. Then he made a collar with "fits" the
>thickness of the difference, so everything would run true.
>Just needed two gaskets and long studs to secure it.
>It's fine on an Experimental, and works great. Now with 50 or so hours on
>the engine, it starts with a simple flip with the left mag selected.
>PS Think the flat gear is over $500.00 retail, while the deep gear is a
>dime a dozen.
>walt evans
>NX140DL
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ed Smith" <lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com>
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:53 PM
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Magneto stuff
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Usually, the left hand mag has an impulse coupling that retards the
>>spark timing for starting. This is normally evident by an additional
>>mechanism on the drive end.
>>
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
>>>Of BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:35 PM
>>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Magneto stuff
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On a Continental and most other aircraft engines...theres no
>>>difference....except one fires the bottom and the other fires
>>>the top plugs. If you have an engine with staggered
>>>timing...the mags are still the same...just one is "clocked"
>>>at a slightly different angle. Perhaps some uninformed
>>>mechanic marked them this way thinking there was some difference.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Terry L. Bowden
>>>ph 254-715-4773
>>>fax 254-853-3805
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>============
>>>Matronics Forums.
>>>============
>>>============
>>>============
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Early Corvair engines |
In a word, more Power. The later engines 1964 and later are 164 cubic inches.
1964 kinda being the oddball year with early style heads and the long stroke.
1961 to 1963 are 145 and the 1960 engines are 140. The primary difference is
Stroke. The cases are all the same. Pistons are different from small to large
due to pin height. Barrels will interchange (1960 to 1964) if you notch the
bottom of the barrel to clear the crank. Early barrels with late heads need
to have the head shimmed to fit the barrel. Late barrels will not work with
early heads. The engine that you should be looking for is a 110 Horsepower.
There were lots made and are readily available. Find some one in your area that
is a member of CORSA ( the corvair club) or that owns corvairs and they will
probably steer you in the right direction. Older country salvage yards might
even have one. By the way CORSA does have a web site with a classified section.
Jim Dallas
Member of CORSA, MCCA
3 Corvair Convertibles
A Piet project in progress
A Hatz project in progress
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Hargrove
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 3:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Early Corvair engines
I am just curious as to why the '60-'64 Corvair engines are considered
unsuitable for airplanes. Didn't Bernie use a '60 Corvair engine?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.net" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | hinged / removable turtledeck |
Dale Johnson and I were discussing a hinged turtledeck at Brodhead. He suggested
I build this into the my piet to facilitate inspection of cable connections
and such from the top of the airplane. I was thinking about it and wondering
if it couldn't just be completely removable. I'm thinking, instead of using
stringers, make the turtledeck shape out of 1/16th or 1/8" ply and have it attach
with several bolts along the top longerons. Just a thought. I'd seen Dick
Navratrils new peit under construction and he made his turtledeck this way -
except not detatchable to my knowledge.
Any thoughts?
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: hinged / removable turtledeck |
Tom
Mine is not detachable. I like the idea of a hinged seat back for
inspection better. Its all a matter of personal choice, but I like the
smooth appearance of the fuse.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: hinged / removable turtledeck
>
>
> Dale Johnson and I were discussing a hinged turtledeck at Brodhead. He
suggested I build this into the my piet to facilitate inspection of cable
connections and such from the top of the airplane. I was thinking about it
and wondering if it couldn't just be completely removable. I'm thinking,
instead of using stringers, make the turtledeck shape out of 1/16th or 1/8"
ply and have it attach with several bolts along the top longerons. Just a
thought. I'd seen Dick Navratrils new peit under construction and he made
his turtledeck this way - except not detatchable to my knowledge.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Tom B.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Mountain Piet is wounded! |
Pieters,
Sad news to report. After I left Brodhead and with an overnight stop in Marshalltown,
I arrived in Jefferson IA.
Early the next morning, I took off and headed west over the town. It was a beautiful
morning, slightly hazy wih the sun just coming over the horizon. I was
just over the west edge of town in a cruise climb configuration at about 500
feet when the engine quit, just like someone turned off the ignition. I only
had one choice, which was a small backyard pasture of a home on the edge of town.
At one end of the field, there was a gap in between some trees and so I headed
there, "threaded the needle" and put Mountain Piet down. The terrain was uphill
and so the rollout was going to be fairly short, but still dicey whether or
not I could get the plane stopped before the barn, so I decided to ground loop
Piet. As I started to swing around to the right, the left wing struck some
large posts about 1/2 way out on the span. The impact swung the plane around
to the left and next thing I knew, I had a crumpled wing wrapped around the left
side of Mountain Piet.
I climbed out and looked around expecting someone to come out of one of the nearby
houses. Dead silence! No one showed up. I got the camera out and decided
to take a few pictures of the plane along with the offending posts. Still no
one! I put the camera away and walked up to the house which was located behind
the barn and found a small shop with the radio going and a sign that read,
"Rug Weaving".
Went inside and found an older gentleman working on a loom. Told him that I had
just crashed my plane in his pasture, and asked to use the phone. "Over there"
he said. and kept on weaving. Got a card out of my wallet and called the
manager of the Jefferson Airport hoping that he was up. He answered and said
he would come out right away, "What's the address?" I asked the man who was still
weaving and he said "811 West South Street" and I repeated it to the airport
manager.
The man weaving stopped, looked me over and asked if I was hurt, I said no, he
went back to weaving the rug he was working on. Acted as if the crash was an
everyday occurance. We talked for awhile about how he got into the rug weaving
business, where he sold them and how he made them etc. Finally he said, "Well,
let's go take a look." We went out and looked the situation over. Satisfied
he went back to the shop, I went out and sat on the curb in front of the house
waiting for Kirk, the airport manager, to arrive.
Kirk arrived and we figured out the tools required and both of us went to the airport
to get them. Still no one around the plane. Kirk phoned a friend who
had a trailer and he said he would help.
Went back to the pasture and found a neighbor had come out of his house along with
several kids standing around the Mountain Piet just respectfully looking things
over. We took the wings off, loaded the plane, I went back to the shop
and thanked the Weaver for the use of his pasture and then we headed for the airport.
There was a tight hangar and we put Piet in there.
Tried to start engine and it would start right away, run a moment and then die.
Fuel pressure OK, but acted as if the filter had clogged up. No water in fuel
when we checked, I was in no mood to pull cowl and start trouble shooting.
Locked up hangar and called friend who was at Oshkosh on his cell phone. He
said would come in his new RV-8 and retrieve me. Good, I guess that I will spend
a few unplanned days at the show! We flew home in the -8 monday.
The damage to Piet is confined to the wing which is toast, but I would also pull
the center section and take a close look at it. The front spar of the center
section shows slight damage where the metal fitting attaches to the wing panel.
Everything else on Mountain Piet seems OK.
I simply don't have the heart to build another wing panel for the plane so am going
to sell it where is and as is, for the best offer. Anyone interested?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
Gosh John, I'm really glad to hear that you were not hurt in the
off-airport landing. I respect your judgement and skill in executing that
landing and really saving yourself and 85% of the airplane. I'm not so
sure how I'd perform given a sudden engine stoppage. Something to think
about and be prepared for more in my flying I think.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
John,
I'm very sorry to learn of the accident. Sure I might be interested but I would
say don't sell it until you have given it some more thought. In six months
you may be kicking yourself and saying "Why did I ever let it go?" Heck I still
regret selling a little Farmall Cub I didn't need at the moment.
It looks like parts of the wing might be salvageable. Maybe others could give
you a hand, I know I would be willing to build a few ribs or at least cut some
parts for you.
Kind regards,
Bob B. - Missouri
P.S. The brighter side is they could have taken you out of there on a stretcher.
8
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
John
Glad to hear you walked away ok.
Do you need a place to store the plane for a while? I am in Mpls, Mn and have
some spare hangar space and a trailer.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
To: Pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet is wounded!
Pieters,
Sad news to report. After I left Brodhead and with an overnight stop in Marshalltown,
I arrived in Jefferson IA.
Early the next morning, I took off and headed west over the town. It was a beautiful
morning, slightly hazy wih the sun just coming over the horizon. I was
just over the west edge of town in a cruise climb configuration at about 500
feet when the engine quit, just like someone turned off the ignition. I only
had one choice, which was a small backyard pasture of a home on the edge of
town.
At one end of the field, there was a gap in between some trees and so I headed
there, "threaded the needle" and put Mountain Piet down. The terrain was uphill
and so the rollout was going to be fairly short, but still dicey whether
or not I could get the plane stopped before the barn, so I decided to ground loop
Piet. As I started to swing around to the right, the left wing struck some
large posts about 1/2 way out on the span. The impact swung the plane around
to the left and next thing I knew, I had a crumpled wing wrapped around the
left side of Mountain Piet.
I climbed out and looked around expecting someone to come out of one of the nearby
houses. Dead silence! No one showed up. I got the camera out and decided
to take a few pictures of the plane along with the offending posts. Still
no one! I put the camera away and walked up to the house which was located behind
the barn and found a small shop with the radio going and a sign that read,
"Rug Weaving".
Went inside and found an older gentleman working on a loom. Told him that I
had just crashed my plane in his pasture, and asked to use the phone. "Over there"
he said. and kept on weaving. Got a card out of my wallet and called the
manager of the Jefferson Airport hoping that he was up. He answered and said
he would come out right away, "What's the address?" I asked the man who was
still weaving and he said "811 West South Street" and I repeated it to the airport
manager.
The man weaving stopped, looked me over and asked if I was hurt, I said no, he
went back to weaving the rug he was working on. Acted as if the crash was an
everyday occurance. We talked for awhile about how he got into the rug weaving
business, where he sold them and how he made them etc. Finally he said, "Well,
let's go take a look." We went out and looked the situation over. Satisfied
he went back to the shop, I went out and sat on the curb in front of the
house waiting for Kirk, the airport manager, to arrive.
Kirk arrived and we figured out the tools required and both of us went to the
airport to get them. Still no one around the plane. Kirk phoned a friend who
had a trailer and he said he would help.
Went back to the pasture and found a neighbor had come out of his house along
with several kids standing around the Mountain Piet just respectfully looking
things over. We took the wings off, loaded the plane, I went back to the shop
and thanked the Weaver for the use of his pasture and then we headed for the
airport. There was a tight hangar and we put Piet in there.
Tried to start engine and it would start right away, run a moment and then die.
Fuel pressure OK, but acted as if the filter had clogged up. No water in
fuel when we checked, I was in no mood to pull cowl and start trouble shooting.
Locked up hangar and called friend who was at Oshkosh on his cell phone.
He said would come in his new RV-8 and retrieve me. Good, I guess that I will
spend a few unplanned days at the show! We flew home in the -8 monday.
The damage to Piet is confined to the wing which is toast, but I would also pull
the center section and take a close look at it. The front spar of the center
section shows slight damage where the metal fitting attaches to the wing panel.
Everything else on Mountain Piet seems OK.
I simply don't have the heart to build another wing panel for the plane so am
going to sell it where is and as is, for the best offer. Anyone interested?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mountain Piet is wounded! |
| From: | "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
John,
Glad you got out unhurt! I'm in Des Moines which is about an hour from
Jefferson. If I can assist with any ground work here just let me know.
Jack Textor
515-225-7000 work
_____
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
John,
Sorry to hear about your difficulty. How far is the airplane from Ottumwa and
Blakesburg IA? This is the home of the Antique Airplane Association, which has
a Pietenpol group of its own. These guys are Pietenpol friendly and may be
able to offer assistance.
Glad you walked away without injury.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Hargrove <ronhargrove(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
I certainly am glad you weren't hurt in the landing. I also hate to
hear about the Mountain Piet, as it is a remarkable piece of
workmanship. Dollars to donuts, I would bet you lost oil pressure to
the turbo, and the auto computer shut down the engine to save turbo
damage, not knowing you weren't on the ground anymore...
----- Original Message -----
From: Textor, Jack <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:29:57 -0500
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet is wounded!
John,
Glad you got out unhurt! I'm in Des Moines which is about an hour
from Jefferson. If I can assist with any ground work here just let me
know.
Jack Textor
515-225-7000 work
________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Question from eBay Member |
Hey Jim-- what an idiot this guys is.......luckily he's only getting about
$30 bucks for it with 10 minutes to go. Here is what I just wrote to the guy
Dear mgp60,
Having purchased the plans from the Pietenpol family and building and
flying my own Pietenpol, I was sorry to see that you have copied the plans
and have them for sale on ebay. The entire Pietenpol e-mail list is aware
of what you are doing and are encouraged not to bid on your item.
Best regards,
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto stuff |
<001001c47a65$2548a560$ccf20bd0@user0dl3n2ruzo>
<000e01c47a67$85c3fa50$2cc5fea9@home>
From memory on my Continental, each mag spins the opposite of each other
off the cam gear and thus the firing order has to match so they mark them
either left or right so they fire the right plugs at in the right
sequence. (if you hook up the plug wires in the correct order !)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto stuff |
Hi Don...Thanks to you and the others for your responses. The nameplate
that is now on the mag indicates that it was rebuilt at the Slick factory
in Rockford, IL. The model number is given as 4250R (presumably the "R"
stands for "REBUILT") and the SN is 3070088. No lag is listed on the plate,
presumably because it was not and is not equipped with an impulse coupling.
Interestingly, an "L" is stamped on the plate by the legend "ROT.", but a
hand-painted arrow painted on the case indicates clockwise rotation as
viewed from the rear of the case. My application is on a Model-A engine.
The mag will be side-mounted and will be rotated in the same direction as
the prop....Thanks again...Carl
wrote :
>
>
> Hi.
>
> Two things - there is the right and left magneto on the engine
> (obviously). However, the RH and the LH does not refer to this, if I
> understand correctly.>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
<41119EE6.5060404(at)donsplans.com>
| Subject: | Re: Magneto stuff |
In addition to what Don says, the impulse coupling, if you have one cannot be reversed.
You would have to find one that operates in the direction you want.
The pawl that the impulse engages with at low RPM would have to be relocated
to one of the other holes as well. Looking at mag will let you know what I mean.
The cam that opens and shuts the points has to be flipped over end for end
so that the points open at the proper time. The mark on the gear on the rotor
has to be remeshed with the bigger gear that distributes the spark, aligning
the LH markings for a LH rotating mag, etc.
Then it is best to remark the mag on the outside so you don't ball yourself up
thinking that the mag spins the other way when it does not!
BTW, a mag will not create a spark if it is spun backwards. A good thing to know
when handproping and needing to reposition the prop...
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Morris
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Magneto stuff
Hi.
Two things - there is the right and left magneto on the engine (obviously).
However, the RH and the LH does not refer to this, if I understand correctly.
This is actually the direction of spin of the magneto. Both mags on the engine
will be either RH or LH, because you are correct - they both spin the same
direction. Inside the mag, there will be two sets of timing marks on the distributor
gear, and one will be marked RH and the other LH. The internal timing
is set differently. I am not sure if the timing is the only difference - there
may be other small physical changes. What type of mag are you working with?
I may be able to look it up, as we have a number of books at the A&P school
that I attend.
-Don
> Can anyone out there enlighten me/us as to the physical difference between
> one magneto marked "right hand" and another marked "left hand"??? I know
> that's a dumb question, but sometimes one has to expose his ignorance in
> order to eradicate it. My understanding is that both mags turn the same
> direction. On a slightly different track: can a mag marked "LH" be reworked
> to a "RH" configuration?
walt evans wrote:
Something to add about magnetos,,,Since the "flat" gear on the Eisemann
magneto is so expensive, for the impulse side, my Mentor built me a mag with
an impulse and the "deep" gear. Then he made a collar with "fits" the
thickness of the difference, so everything would run true.
Just needed two gaskets and long studs to secure it.
It's fine on an Experimental, and works great. Now with 50 or so hours on
the engine, it starts with a simple flip with the left mag selected.
PS Think the flat gear is over $500.00 retail, while the deep gear is a
dime a dozen.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Smith" <lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Magneto stuff
Usually, the left hand mag has an impulse coupling that retards the
spark timing for starting. This is normally evident by an additional
mechanism on the drive end.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
Of BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Magneto stuff
On a Continental and most other aircraft engines...theres no
difference....except one fires the bottom and the other fires
the top plugs. If you have an engine with staggered
timing...the mags are still the same...just one is "clocked"
at a slightly different angle. Perhaps some uninformed
mechanic marked them this way thinking there was some difference.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
<000e01c47a67$85c3fa50$2cc5fea9@home> <5.1.1.5.2.20040805110054.02962828(at)popserve.grc.nasa.gov>
| Subject: | Re: Magneto stuff |
Michael!
Both mags spin the same way on the A-65 or with almost any engine! Your
A-65-8 would use RH rotation mags. The mags are driven off of the gear on
the back of the crank. This is the same gear that drives the cam. This
gear is rotating the same direction as the prop which is CW when in the
cockpit and anti CW when looking at the prop from the front. This would
mean that the gears on the mags and cam would have to turn the other way
which would be anti CW if you were holding the mag with the gear pointing
away from you. Convention says that you determine the mag rotation by
looking at the mag from its driven end and the way the top of the gear
rotates. So if it is anti CW when the gear is pointed away, then it is is
CW when the gear is pointing at you. CW means the top moves to the right,
hence the RH rotation. Mags used on the A-65 include SF4R, S4RN, AM-4 with
a RH and an arrow, or with Slicks you will have an RH stamped on the data
plate. That is why the R in the names.
If you have a C series or an O-200 that is starter equipped, then the mags
are driven by the cam gear rather than the crank gear. This is to
accomodate the starter and the generator pads on the accessory case. We saw
above that the cam gear rotates anti CW when you are sitting in the cockpit.
Therefore the mags go the other way from the cam gear that they are driven
by. This is the same way as the prop. LH would be the rotation at the top
when you look at the mag from its driven end. Mags used on these engines
include the S4LN, AM-4 with an LH and an arrow, or with Slicks, you will
have an LH stamped on the data plate.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Magneto stuff
>
> From memory on my Continental, each mag spins the opposite of each other
> off the cam gear and thus the firing order has to match so they mark them
> either left or right so they fire the right plugs at in the right
> sequence. (if you hook up the plug wires in the correct order !)
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
damn John, that really sucks. You did good with what you were handed. I am
always fearful of the dreaded dead-stick at low altitude. I hope I never have
to experience it first hand.
I can understand your feeling about not wanting to fool with fixing it, but maybe
a little time might change your mind. When I lose one of my large scale RC
planes or helicopters to a crash I feel the same way. Sometimes those crashes
can cost me well over $1500. Right after I feel sick about it and claim that
I'm just gonna sell all my RC stuff and move on. Eventually I get past it
and recover, but it does affect my mood big time.
Maybe just sit tight for a couple weeks.... let the initial shock wear off and
then reevaluate your thoughts on selling.
In any case I'm VERY glad you came away from this intact.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
To: Pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet is wounded!
Pieters,
Sad news to report. After I left Brodhead and with an overnight stop in Marshalltown,
I arrived in Jefferson IA.
Early the next morning, I took off and headed west over the town. It was a beautiful
morning, slightly hazy wih the sun just coming over the horizon. I was
just over the west edge of town in a cruise climb configuration at about 500
feet when the engine quit, just like someone turned off the ignition. I only
had one choice, which was a small backyard pasture of a home on the edge of
town.
At one end of the field, there was a gap in between some trees and so I headed
there, "threaded the needle" and put Mountain Piet down. The terrain was uphill
and so the rollout was going to be fairly short, but still dicey whether
or not I could get the plane stopped before the barn, so I decided to ground loop
Piet. As I started to swing around to the right, the left wing struck some
large posts about 1/2 way out on the span. The impact swung the plane around
to the left and next thing I knew, I had a crumpled wing wrapped around the
left side of Mountain Piet.
I climbed out and looked around expecting someone to come out of one of the nearby
houses. Dead silence! No one showed up. I got the camera out and decided
to take a few pictures of the plane along with the offending posts. Still
no one! I put the camera away and walked up to the house which was located behind
the barn and found a small shop with the radio going and a sign that read,
"Rug Weaving".
Went inside and found an older gentleman working on a loom. Told him that I
had just crashed my plane in his pasture, and asked to use the phone. "Over there"
he said. and kept on weaving. Got a card out of my wallet and called the
manager of the Jefferson Airport hoping that he was up. He answered and said
he would come out right away, "What's the address?" I asked the man who was
still weaving and he said "811 West South Street" and I repeated it to the airport
manager.
The man weaving stopped, looked me over and asked if I was hurt, I said no, he
went back to weaving the rug he was working on. Acted as if the crash was an
everyday occurance. We talked for awhile about how he got into the rug weaving
business, where he sold them and how he made them etc. Finally he said, "Well,
let's go take a look." We went out and looked the situation over. Satisfied
he went back to the shop, I went out and sat on the curb in front of the
house waiting for Kirk, the airport manager, to arrive.
Kirk arrived and we figured out the tools required and both of us went to the
airport to get them. Still no one around the plane. Kirk phoned a friend who
had a trailer and he said he would help.
Went back to the pasture and found a neighbor had come out of his house along
with several kids standing around the Mountain Piet just respectfully looking
things over. We took the wings off, loaded the plane, I went back to the shop
and thanked the Weaver for the use of his pasture and then we headed for the
airport. There was a tight hangar and we put Piet in there.
Tried to start engine and it would start right away, run a moment and then die.
Fuel pressure OK, but acted as if the filter had clogged up. No water in
fuel when we checked, I was in no mood to pull cowl and start trouble shooting.
Locked up hangar and called friend who was at Oshkosh on his cell phone.
He said would come in his new RV-8 and retrieve me. Good, I guess that I will
spend a few unplanned days at the show! We flew home in the -8 monday.
The damage to Piet is confined to the wing which is toast, but I would also pull
the center section and take a close look at it. The front spar of the center
section shows slight damage where the metal fitting attaches to the wing panel.
Everything else on Mountain Piet seems OK.
I simply don't have the heart to build another wing panel for the plane so am
going to sell it where is and as is, for the best offer. Anyone interested?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net> |
Dang no one answered your question. I didn't get to go this year, but I would
be surprised if there were no GN-1's at the fly-in.
Bob B.
Did anybody on this list go or is there anyone out there???
----- Original Message -----
From: lanny bissell
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 3:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gn-1s.
Doc, Any GN-1s at Broadhead? I'm new to the list and Pietenpols in general,
but I wonder why I never see much about the GN-1 which I understand is a "modern"
version of the Piet.
Howard Bissell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto stuff |
<001001c47a65$2548a560$ccf20bd0@user0dl3n2ruzo>
<000e01c47a67$85c3fa50$2cc5fea9@home>
<5.1.1.5.2.20040805110054.02962828(at)popserve.grc.nasa.gov>
Chris-- opps ! The sketch I drew on my yellow sticky note before I mailed
that off was wrong !
You are right--- both mags spin in the same direction.
Mike
>
>Michael!
>
>Both mags spin the same way on the A-65 or with almost any engine! Your
>A-65-8 would use RH rotation mags. The mags are driven off of the gear on
>the back of the crank. This is the same gear that drives the cam. This
>gear is rotating the same direction as the prop which is CW when in the
>cockpit and anti CW when looking at the prop from the front. This would
>mean that the gears on the mags and cam would have to turn the other way
>which would be anti CW if you were holding the mag with the gear pointing
>away from you. Convention says that you determine the mag rotation by
>looking at the mag from its driven end and the way the top of the gear
>rotates. So if it is anti CW when the gear is pointed away, then it is is
>CW when the gear is pointing at you. CW means the top moves to the right,
>hence the RH rotation. Mags used on the A-65 include SF4R, S4RN, AM-4 with
>a RH and an arrow, or with Slicks you will have an RH stamped on the data
>plate. That is why the R in the names.
>
>If you have a C series or an O-200 that is starter equipped, then the mags
>are driven by the cam gear rather than the crank gear. This is to
>accomodate the starter and the generator pads on the accessory case. We saw
>above that the cam gear rotates anti CW when you are sitting in the cockpit.
>Therefore the mags go the other way from the cam gear that they are driven
>by. This is the same way as the prop. LH would be the rotation at the top
>when you look at the mag from its driven end. Mags used on these engines
>include the S4LN, AM-4 with an LH and an arrow, or with Slicks, you will
>have an LH stamped on the data plate.
>
>Chris
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:02 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Magneto stuff
>
>
>
> >
> > From memory on my Continental, each mag spins the opposite of each other
> > off the cam gear and thus the firing order has to match so they mark them
> > either left or right so they fire the right plugs at in the right
> > sequence. (if you hook up the plug wires in the correct order !)
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Tailwheel steering |
Group,
I sent this email awhile back and never had any responses. I am trying again (now
that everyone but Chuck is home from Broadhead/Osh). Anyone ever have experience
with this?
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
====================
Subj: Tailwheel Cable Geometry
Date: 7/27/2004 11:46:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: BARNSTMR
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Last week I was showing Chuck my plan for tailwheel steering. We got into a discussion
about geometry and the leverage and throw required for steering. Chuck
showed me how he attached tailwheel steering cables very close inboard from
his feet near the center of the fulcrum on the rudder bar. His logic is that
the 'throw" (or travel) is a shorter distance on the tailwheel steering arms
than on the rudder horns.
I am getting ready to design the attachments for tailwheel steering on mine and
have been thinking more about this. First of all....our plane does not have
a rudder bar...but instead has pedals similar to a J3 cub. I could accomplish
the same effect of Chucks design by welding a tab onto the pedal closer to the
pedal fulcrum. This way the tailwheel steering travel will be shorter than
the rudder cable travel.
But after thinking this over... I am not so sure that this is the best way to set
this up. I am planning to use compression springs at the tailwheel steering
arms to dampen shimmy. But I am thinking that the springs will also compensate
for the difference in "throw" if I choose to tie the rudder and tailwheel
cables together with the same travel. In addition....I am thinking that this
should allow more steering authority with less input when the tailwheel is on
the ground.
Does anyone have any experience and comment on this? I am not knocking Chucks
design. He is a whiz at all things mechanical. But I am just trying to think
this through before I make more parts. One thing I did notice is that 'ol NX770CG's
rudder seems to swipe back and forth a lot on 3-point landing as it is
steered down the runway. I don't notice nearly that much rudder input required
to steer the Taylorcraft.
TLB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Hey guys,
I saw Chuck Ganzer's solar panel he uses to charge a small battery which in turn
powers his GPS, radio etc.
I thought this was a great idea but am not electrically minded enough to figure
it out.
I can get a small solar panel and install it in my top wing. Then some wiring
to a small battery, which goes back to some plugs for my intercom and gps etc.
My question is what is the voltage we need? will these items run off a 12v battery?
I can get a nice small 1lb 12v. Also, how do you keep it from overcharging
without much weight? or do you just have a disconnect switch when the battery
is full?
This would clearly be for when one is away from home, but it's clean and always
ready.
Any electric experts out there?
thanks,
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
John,
Just as another person said, give yourself a couple day to think it over. Don't
set yourself up for any "woulda, shoulda, coulda's" later.
I bought my spruce kit from AS&S and I "had to" take the rib material (i.e.: package
deal) even though I didn't need it because I already have the pre-built
ribs from Charles. I've been wondering what the hell I was going to do with all
that extra wood. About all it's good for up here to me is a small bonfire.
Tell you what, the rib material is yours if you'll accept it. All you have
to do is pay for the shipping...
Now the bad news, I live in the Alaskan Bush so shipping will no doubt be a little
more than the lower 48, however, I have a solution for that too. I might
suggest to others reading this that someone manage a small fund to get the wood
to John. (I don't have time to do that). When I shipped the material up here
it cost me $350.00 (the entire spruce kit plus some extra wood and T-88 that
is) [5 boxes at 150 lbs total]. I still have the long boxes the material came
in. So, I would guess just shipping the rib material would be less than $50.00
Ground. (For reference I'm in area code 99559). Maybe someone else could
donate the spar material, and so on...
John, this isn't charity by any means. This is just guys gathering around in a
"virtual hanger" scratching their collective heads figuring out how to get Mountain
Piet flying again. Your aircraft is an inspiration to a lot of us (though
I won't be using a Subaru anytime soon :-)). All I ask in return is that
you lead me through your neck of the woods as I fly from here in the bush to Washington
D.C. in a couple of years, but that's another story.
Stacy
The Bethel Belle Project
Bethel, Alaska
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
To: Pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet is wounded!
Pieters,
Sad news to report. After I left Brodhead and with an overnight stop in Marshalltown,
I arrived in Jefferson IA.
Early the next morning, I took off and headed west over the town. It was a beautiful
morning, slightly hazy wih the sun just coming over the horizon. I was
just over the west edge of town in a cruise climb configuration at about 500
feet when the engine quit, just like someone turned off the ignition. I only
had one choice, which was a small backyard pasture of a home on the edge of
town.
At one end of the field, there was a gap in between some trees and so I headed
there, "threaded the needle" and put Mountain Piet down. The terrain was uphill
and so the rollout was going to be fairly short, but still dicey whether
or not I could get the plane stopped before the barn, so I decided to ground loop
Piet. As I started to swing around to the right, the left wing struck some
large posts about 1/2 way out on the span. The impact swung the plane around
to the left and next thing I knew, I had a crumpled wing wrapped around the
left side of Mountain Piet.
I climbed out and looked around expecting someone to come out of one of the nearby
houses. Dead silence! No one showed up. I got the camera out and decided
to take a few pictures of the plane along with the offending posts. Still
no one! I put the camera away and walked up to the house which was located behind
the barn and found a small shop with the radio going and a sign that read,
"Rug Weaving".
Went inside and found an older gentleman working on a loom. Told him that I
had just crashed my plane in his pasture, and asked to use the phone. "Over there"
he said. and kept on weaving. Got a card out of my wallet and called the
manager of the Jefferson Airport hoping that he was up. He answered and said
he would come out right away, "What's the address?" I asked the man who was
still weaving and he said "811 West South Street" and I repeated it to the airport
manager.
The man weaving stopped, looked me over and asked if I was hurt, I said no, he
went back to weaving the rug he was working on. Acted as if the crash was an
everyday occurance. We talked for awhile about how he got into the rug weaving
business, where he sold them and how he made them etc. Finally he said, "Well,
let's go take a look." We went out and looked the situation over. Satisfied
he went back to the shop, I went out and sat on the curb in front of the
house waiting for Kirk, the airport manager, to arrive.
Kirk arrived and we figured out the tools required and both of us went to the
airport to get them. Still no one around the plane. Kirk phoned a friend who
had a trailer and he said he would help.
Went back to the pasture and found a neighbor had come out of his house along
with several kids standing around the Mountain Piet just respectfully looking
things over. We took the wings off, loaded the plane, I went back to the shop
and thanked the Weaver for the use of his pasture and then we headed for the
airport. There was a tight hangar and we put Piet in there.
Tried to start engine and it would start right away, run a moment and then die.
Fuel pressure OK, but acted as if the filter had clogged up. No water in
fuel when we checked, I was in no mood to pull cowl and start trouble shooting.
Locked up hangar and called friend who was at Oshkosh on his cell phone.
He said would come in his new RV-8 and retrieve me. Good, I guess that I will
spend a few unplanned days at the show! We flew home in the -8 monday.
The damage to Piet is confined to the wing which is toast, but I would also pull
the center section and take a close look at it. The front spar of the center
section shows slight damage where the metal fitting attaches to the wing panel.
Everything else on Mountain Piet seems OK.
I simply don't have the heart to build another wing panel for the plane so am
going to sell it where is and as is, for the best offer. Anyone interested?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
Sorry for not responding..I got to B'head on Thursday and left on Sunday. I
counted 16 Piets during those days. I say a Jenny (Glory!) and I saw a
beautiful round-engine Hatz and others, but no GN-1...Carl
Vought/Huntsville, AL
>
>
>
> Dang no one answered your question. I didn't get to go this year, but I
would be surprised if there were no GN-1's at the fly-in.
> Bob B.
> Did anybody on this list go or is there anyone out there???
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: lanny bissell
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 3:56 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: gn-1s.
>
>
> Doc, Any GN-1s at Broadhead? I'm new to the list and Pietenpols in
general, but I wonder why I never see much about the GN-1 which I
understand is a "modern" version of the Piet.
> Howard Bissell
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
Hello John,
Glad you are OK and even the damage looks impressive the landing was
succesfull, first check the plane maybe is easy repairable than you
think.
I like your Piet a lot, I have all the photos in my computer.
I will gladly buy it from you... BUT NOT NOW! A friend never takes
advantage of a friend in problems.
I know you can get some asitance from EAA'ers near there. If you cant
get a better option in taking it back home, Yellow Freight uses (at
least here) 20' trailers that might be not as expensive as 46fts...
Now you might feel very bad, but I am sure that in a few months you
will be glad of all the friends you made in the way and retriving was
not that expensive.
One more time, glad that you are OK. I know all of us will keep track
of this incident, and I am sure that you will find some help, from some
of us fisicaly closer to you and Montain Piet, than myself.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.
--- John Dilatush wrote:
> Pieters,
>
> Sad news to report. After I left Brodhead and with an overnight stop
> in Marshalltown, I arrived in Jefferson IA.
>
> Early the next morning, I took off and headed west over the town. It
> was a beautiful morning, slightly hazy wih the sun just coming over
> the horizon. I was just over the west edge of town in a cruise climb
> configuration at about 500 feet when the engine quit, just like
> someone turned off the ignition. I only had one choice, which was a
> small backyard pasture of a home on the edge of town.
>
> At one end of the field, there was a gap in between some trees and so
> I headed there, "threaded the needle" and put Mountain Piet down.
> The terrain was uphill and so the rollout was going to be fairly
> short, but still dicey whether or not I could get the plane stopped
> before the barn, so I decided to ground loop Piet. As I started to
> swing around to the right, the left wing struck some large posts
> about 1/2 way out on the span. The impact swung the plane around to
> the left and next thing I knew, I had a crumpled wing wrapped around
> the left side of Mountain Piet.
>
> I climbed out and looked around expecting someone to come out of one
> of the nearby houses. Dead silence! No one showed up. I got the
> camera out and decided to take a few pictures of the plane along with
> the offending posts. Still no one! I put the camera away and walked
> up to the house which was located behind the barn and found a small
> shop with the radio going and a sign that read, "Rug Weaving".
>
> Went inside and found an older gentleman working on a loom. Told him
> that I had just crashed my plane in his pasture, and asked to use the
> phone. "Over there" he said. and kept on weaving. Got a card out of
> my wallet and called the manager of the Jefferson Airport hoping that
> he was up. He answered and said he would come out right away,
> "What's the address?" I asked the man who was still weaving and he
> said "811 West South Street" and I repeated it to the airport
> manager.
>
> The man weaving stopped, looked me over and asked if I was hurt, I
> said no, he went back to weaving the rug he was working on. Acted as
> if the crash was an everyday occurance. We talked for awhile about
> how he got into the rug weaving business, where he sold them and how
> he made them etc. Finally he said, "Well, let's go take a look." We
> went out and looked the situation over. Satisfied he went back to
> the shop, I went out and sat on the curb in front of the house
> waiting for Kirk, the airport manager, to arrive.
>
> Kirk arrived and we figured out the tools required and both of us
> went to the airport to get them. Still no one around the plane.
> Kirk phoned a friend who had a trailer and he said he would help.
>
> Went back to the pasture and found a neighbor had come out of his
> house along with several kids standing around the Mountain Piet just
> respectfully looking things over. We took the wings off, loaded the
> plane, I went back to the shop and thanked the Weaver for the use of
> his pasture and then we headed for the airport. There was a tight
> hangar and we put Piet in there.
>
> Tried to start engine and it would start right away, run a moment and
> then die. Fuel pressure OK, but acted as if the filter had clogged
> up. No water in fuel when we checked, I was in no mood to pull cowl
> and start trouble shooting. Locked up hangar and called friend who
> was at Oshkosh on his cell phone. He said would come in his new RV-8
> and retrieve me. Good, I guess that I will spend a few unplanned
> days at the show! We flew home in the -8 monday.
>
> The damage to Piet is confined to the wing which is toast, but I
> would also pull the center section and take a close look at it. The
> front spar of the center section shows slight damage where the metal
> fitting attaches to the wing panel. Everything else on Mountain Piet
> seems OK.
>
> I simply don't have the heart to build another wing panel for the
> plane so am going to sell it where is and as is, for the best offer.
> Anyone interested?
>
> John
> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=P1020361.jpg
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
John,
I'm sorry to hear of your engine failure and forced landing but am glad to
hear you're OK. You obvioulsy did a fantatic job of getting it in that field.
I'll be glad to make you some replacement ribs or whatever else I can do to
help get you back in the air. Don't give up on your beautiful Piet just yet.
Tom
Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-Lists: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
Hi Michael,
In our club, twice a year since about 8 to 10 years ago, we make a
deadstick landing contest in a dry lake near our landing strip.
It beguined since the time of the old ultralights (2 cycle engines),
now all, even 912 Rotax have to participate, also we have participats
from other little clubs near here (is getting famous).
The lake is 20 x 50 miles long of hard sand, we make a white line and
each pilot has 3 chances, the engine is shot down 1,500 ft (800 ft in
ultralights) above when we pass over the mark. All the pilots that
land farther from the line (short or passed) in each category, pays for
a round of Corona beer in the next sunday barbacue in the club.
I had this idea when we lost a good friend of the club in a hard
landing about 11 years ago.
We dont do more practice because the lake is flooded with mud about six
months a year.
We sometimes have big surprices from proficient pilots that land real
far, even one with lots of hours experience, landed 90 degrees off
course in his spam cam.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
>
> Gosh John, I'm really glad to hear that you were not hurt in the
> off-airport landing. I respect your judgement and skill in
> executing that
> landing and really saving yourself and 85% of the airplane. I'm not
> so
> sure how I'd perform given a sudden engine stoppage. Something to
> think
> about and be prepared for more in my flying I think.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel steering |
Terry,
I had a small problem when I first began taxiing 41CC. I had a few months
before flown a Christian Eagle and I was all over the runway because of the short
arm on the steering tail wheel. ( That's different from the Army's short
arm). 41CC felt the same as the Eagle. It has a 6 inch steerable Scott. Both the
t/w and rudder horn cables terminate on the ends of the rudder bar. I decided
to fab two strips of 4130 3/4X 6 .080 to extend the t/w steering arms. Drilled
extra holes in the Scott steering arms for mounting screws and 2 holes for
cable spring mountings. I found that the fartherest holes outboard were too wide
and made turning difficult so I came back to the hole nearer inboard and found
it perfect. Felt like an Aeronca steering reaction.
You might wait until it's taxiing time to try this as the FEEL of a plane is
a very personal thing. Also, as I became accustomed to the plane it would have
been natural to have flown it with the first configuration. You have to learn
to fly those little dudes as well as build them. Hopes this helps
Corky, still in La living the good life with his bride.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Carden <flywrite(at)erols.com> |
I've read a few anecdotals about claims that spoked motorcycle wheels
are not designed to take side loads and are sure to collapse if used on
a Piet/GN-1. Does anyone have any ACTUAL experience (good or bad) with
motorcycle wheels, or is this simply an old saw handed down from
builder to builder?
Dick Carden
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
There was a GN-1 and it was camped at the back side of the airport. It was yellow
and black. I talked with the owner, he was hangered at Cairo, Illinois (southern
tip) and had flown up to Brodhead. He said he sometimes felt like some Piet
people were prejudiced against GN-1's and he was leery of taking up passengers
right now. He has been to Brodhead in the past and given rides though. Forgot
his name, though, damn this old age stuff.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: baileys
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gn-1s.
Dang no one answered your question. I didn't get to go this year, but I would
be surprised if there were no GN-1's at the fly-in.
Bob B.
Did anybody on this list go or is there anyone out there???
----- Original Message -----
From: lanny bissell
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 3:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gn-1s.
Doc, Any GN-1s at Broadhead? I'm new to the list and Pietenpols in general,
but I wonder why I never see much about the GN-1 which I understand is a "modern"
version of the Piet.
Howard Bissell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
I don't have any actual data, but it makes sense. If you look at automotive
wire wheels, or aviation wire wheels (like the Jenny in the EAA museum),
they invariably have a much wider hub than motorcycle wheels do. Having
occasionally made less than perfect crosswind landings, I would rather err
on the side of safety. I made my hubs 6" wide, and adapted them to accept
Cleveland disc brakes. To each his own.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Carden
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire wheels
I've read a few anecdotals about claims that spoked motorcycle wheels
are not designed to take side loads and are sure to collapse if used on
a Piet/GN-1. Does anyone have any ACTUAL experience (good or bad) with
motorcycle wheels, or is this simply an old saw handed down from
builder to builder?
Dick Carden
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Question from eBay Member |
I thought long and hard about bidding on the plans. The thing is I am
looking for a set as a REFERENCE ONLY. I have several sets of plans I have
gotten as copies and when I was ready to start on a Graham Lee Nieuport I
bought a set of serial numbered plans to make it legal. It is extremely
unethical to build a second plane off of the same plans and deprive the
designer of the meager income they generate. After thinking about it I felt
that buying them would only encourage him to sell additional copies and
didn't bid. Of course I am still in the position that I would really like
to study the plans and don't have access to a set.
How would I go about getting a set to study and NOT build from? I have a
pant load of projects and don't have time to add another but the engineer in
me really wants to look at how BP solved a bunch of design problems.
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Question from eBay Member
>
> Hey Jim-- what an idiot this guys is.......luckily he's only getting about
> $30 bucks for it with 10 minutes to go. Here is what I just wrote to the
guy
>
> Dear mgp60,
> Having purchased the plans from the Pietenpol family and building and
> flying my own Pietenpol, I was sorry to see that you have copied the plans
> and have them for sale on ebay. The entire Pietenpol e-mail list is
aware
> of what you are doing and are encouraged not to bid on your item.
>
> Best regards,
> Mike
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
With a sidecar, a motorcycle's wheels are subject to the same axial (side)
loads as automobile wheels.
There are literally thousands of motorcycles that have run with sidecars
successfully. Some have even raced.
I don't think that would be the case if no motorcycle wheels could take
axial loads.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire wheels
>
> I don't have any actual data, but it makes sense. If you look at
automotive
> wire wheels, or aviation wire wheels (like the Jenny in the EAA museum),
> they invariably have a much wider hub than motorcycle wheels do. Having
> occasionally made less than perfect crosswind landings, I would rather err
> on the side of safety. I made my hubs 6" wide, and adapted them to accept
> Cleveland disc brakes. To each his own.
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
> Carden
> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 5:04 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire wheels
>
>
> I've read a few anecdotals about claims that spoked motorcycle wheels
> are not designed to take side loads and are sure to collapse if used on
> a Piet/GN-1. Does anyone have any ACTUAL experience (good or bad) with
> motorcycle wheels, or is this simply an old saw handed down from
> builder to builder?
>
> Dick Carden
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
John,
"any landing that you can walk away from...." well you know the rest.
Count your blessings, and think about the instructor that did the engine outs with
you.
Anyway,,,glad to hear your OK, and I think that all the advice that the guys are
giving is good. Don't be too quick to sell. I think it's good advice.
It's a bittersweet feeling, that in a weird way you can be proud that you made
a landing that we all think of and wonder, when the time comes, how it will turn
out.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
To: Pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 7:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet is wounded!
Pieters,
Sad news to report. After I left Brodhead and with an overnight stop in Marshalltown,
I arrived in Jefferson IA.
Early the next morning, I took off and headed west over the town. It was a beautiful
morning, slightly hazy wih the sun just coming over the horizon. I was
just over the west edge of town in a cruise climb configuration at about 500
feet when the engine quit, just like someone turned off the ignition. I only
had one choice, which was a small backyard pasture of a home on the edge of
town.
At one end of the field, there was a gap in between some trees and so I headed
there, "threaded the needle" and put Mountain Piet down. The terrain was uphill
and so the rollout was going to be fairly short, but still dicey whether
or not I could get the plane stopped before the barn, so I decided to ground loop
Piet. As I started to swing around to the right, the left wing struck some
large posts about 1/2 way out on the span. The impact swung the plane around
to the left and next thing I knew, I had a crumpled wing wrapped around the
left side of Mountain Piet.
I climbed out and looked around expecting someone to come out of one of the nearby
houses. Dead silence! No one showed up. I got the camera out and decided
to take a few pictures of the plane along with the offending posts. Still
no one! I put the camera away and walked up to the house which was located behind
the barn and found a small shop with the radio going and a sign that read,
"Rug Weaving".
Went inside and found an older gentleman working on a loom. Told him that I
had just crashed my plane in his pasture, and asked to use the phone. "Over there"
he said. and kept on weaving. Got a card out of my wallet and called the
manager of the Jefferson Airport hoping that he was up. He answered and said
he would come out right away, "What's the address?" I asked the man who was
still weaving and he said "811 West South Street" and I repeated it to the airport
manager.
The man weaving stopped, looked me over and asked if I was hurt, I said no, he
went back to weaving the rug he was working on. Acted as if the crash was an
everyday occurance. We talked for awhile about how he got into the rug weaving
business, where he sold them and how he made them etc. Finally he said, "Well,
let's go take a look." We went out and looked the situation over. Satisfied
he went back to the shop, I went out and sat on the curb in front of the
house waiting for Kirk, the airport manager, to arrive.
Kirk arrived and we figured out the tools required and both of us went to the
airport to get them. Still no one around the plane. Kirk phoned a friend who
had a trailer and he said he would help.
Went back to the pasture and found a neighbor had come out of his house along
with several kids standing around the Mountain Piet just respectfully looking
things over. We took the wings off, loaded the plane, I went back to the shop
and thanked the Weaver for the use of his pasture and then we headed for the
airport. There was a tight hangar and we put Piet in there.
Tried to start engine and it would start right away, run a moment and then die.
Fuel pressure OK, but acted as if the filter had clogged up. No water in
fuel when we checked, I was in no mood to pull cowl and start trouble shooting.
Locked up hangar and called friend who was at Oshkosh on his cell phone.
He said would come in his new RV-8 and retrieve me. Good, I guess that I will
spend a few unplanned days at the show! We flew home in the -8 monday.
The damage to Piet is confined to the wing which is toast, but I would also pull
the center section and take a close look at it. The front spar of the center
section shows slight damage where the metal fitting attaches to the wing panel.
Everything else on Mountain Piet seems OK.
I simply don't have the heart to build another wing panel for the plane so am
going to sell it where is and as is, for the best offer. Anyone interested?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
This is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. This has got to be my
pet pieve! People will say "motorcycles can't take sideloads,(which is
true) so the wheels must not be able to take side loads". There's no
logical connection between those two statements! One has to eventually
answer the question "how much strength do I need?" I can't answer that
question, but I can tell you what the maximum force to which the wheels
could be subjected in practice. Everybody knows that the straight-axle gear
is as strong as a bridge! If the wheels can withstand the sideload strength
limits of the straight-axle gear, you've gotta believe in those wheels!
What gives the straight-axle gear it's strength are two crossed
cables..that's all! All those little sheetmetal fittings do an admirable
job on fore and aft forces but they have almost NO sideload strength. I
drew a freebody diagram showing the static forces and concluded that the
side force required to fail the gear is around 1200 pounds. You've gotta
remember that there's a turnbuckle in those cables which might or might not
have a failure strength equal to that of the cables. I intend to test a
representative wheel at these force levels and I'll post the results. Carl
Vought/Huntsville, AL
wrote :
>
> I've read a few anecdotals about claims that spoked motorcycle wheels
> are not designed to take side loads and are sure to collapse if used on
> a Piet/GN-1. Does anyone have any ACTUAL experience (good or bad) with
> motorcycle wheels, or is this simply an old saw handed down from
> builder to builder?
>
> Dick Carden
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
I saw the airplane you're referring to. I thought it was a Piet! It had a
paint job that showed some age and I took satisfaction in that because when
I saw it I said to myself "an airplane does not have to be glossy to be
beautiful." I don't think the paint job I'm planning to put on my Piet will
be very different. That airplane spent a lot of time near the treeline. I'm
sorry we didn't make him feel more welcome...Carl Vought
wrote :
>
>
>
> There was a GN-1 and it was camped at the back side of the airport. It
was yellow and black. I talked with the owner, he was hangered at Cairo,
Illinois (southern tip) and had flown up to Brodhead. He said he sometimes
felt like some Piet people were prejudiced against GN-1's and he was leery
of taking up passengers right now. He has been to Brodhead in the past and
given rides though. Forgot his name, though, damn this old age stuff.
> Dennis
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: baileys
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gn-1s.
>
>
> Dang no one answered your question. I didn't get to go this year, but
I would be surprised if there were no GN-1's at the fly-in.
> Bob B.
> Did anybody on this list go or is there anyone out there???
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: lanny bissell
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 3:56 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: gn-1s.
>
>
> Doc, Any GN-1s at Broadhead? I'm new to the list and Pietenpols in
general, but I wonder why I never see much about the GN-1 which I
understand is a "modern" version of the Piet.
> Howard Bissell
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Malley" <jgmalley(at)comcast.net> |
You asked for actual experience, so here goes: I had put motorcycle wheels
on my Pietenpol in the late 80s. It took off, flew and landed well even in
crosswinds that I know I shouldn't have been in. In the mid 90s, while
trying to land during a rainstorm, I went off the end of a down-sloping
runway. To avoid hitting the upcoming trees, I intentionally ground looped
the plane while still traveling at a pretty high speed, which I estimate to
have been about 25 mph. With the plane moving forward but facing 90 degrees
sideward, the wheels dug into the earth. The stop was quite abrupt, but the
trees were not touched. The holes formed by the wheels were over 12 inches
deep. One wheel bent, one did not. There was no other damage on the side
that had bent; however on the intact side, the metal fittings were ripped
out, an AN bolt sheared and the wood longeron cracked.
While making repairs, I couldn't find a matching replacement wheel so I made
up some hubs; I made them wider hoping for innate strength, but I still view
those original wheels as having been plenty strong. Perhaps they were too
strong: if both wheels had collapsed there may not have been any other
damage.
Jim Malley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Carden" <flywrite(at)erols.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire wheels
>
> I've read a few anecdotals about claims that spoked motorcycle wheels
> are not designed to take side loads and are sure to collapse if used on
> a Piet/GN-1. Does anyone have any ACTUAL experience (good or bad) with
> motorcycle wheels, or is this simply an old saw handed down from
> builder to builder?
>
> Dick Carden
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Mountain Piet is wounded! |
Pieters,
I can't thank you all enough for your concerns about both "Mountain Piet" and myself.
When I started this project in 1995, I wanted to build a Pietenpol with enough
horsepower at my field elevation (7000 ft msl) that I could fly it safely and
get it in and out of primitive strips here in the Rockies at higher elevations.
In this, I feel that I have succeeded. A Pietenpol is a fine, simple design
that will handle more horsepower even at a higher gross weight and can perform
on a par with even a 180 hp super cub up here in our rarified air.
Your advice to wait a little while before making a decision to sell the bird is
good advice, but I had already decided before the accident to sell the plane.
The project, in my mind anyway, was completed and I had proved my point.
Not only has the project succeeded, but other factors have entered into my decision
to sell the plane. My age for one, I am 77 years old and have been flying
since 1946 (Damn'd, I just realized that is 58 years!). Also entering the decision
to sell, I have found that an open cockpit here in the Rockies at altitude
is darned cold, limiting the use of the plane to only a few months of the
year.
And then there is the family, I had promised to build some new furniture over 10
years ago for my wife and never seemed to get around to it. I have a whole
lot of deferred maintenance to do around the house. Kids and grandkids are urging
granddad to "give it up, you have cheated death enough times in those airplanes".
It just the right time to sell "Mountain Piet" and get to doing some of the other
things that need doing around here, the decision to sell was not precipitated
by the accident.
I have mentioned this accident to participants on the list first because I would
rather the plane go to someone who is knowledgable, enthusiastic, will do a
good job of repair and appreciate the design and it's heritage. I hope you all
will understand this.
Thanks again for your concerns and comments, it is good to feel all the support
that you offer.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Question from eBay Member |
Hank,
I will talk about my personal experience. Buy the originals, they
dont cost "that" much, and is like building a plane using good
materials.
What I do is this, I have lots of airplane plans divided in 3 groups:
The ones I just like, The ones I build and The ones that call my
atention in design. I buy myself at least 2 sets of plans a year, one
in my bithday (June) and one for Christmas. Sometime during the year I
buy another one I really like, If I think I have been a good boy :-)
I have built now (with 4 partners) a Volksplane, a KR-1, a Ramsey
Bathtub (that I gave to a friend ready to cover), a Zenith 701 just
finished, a Pouchel (ladder Flying Flea) and helped rebuild two trikes
(delta wing type) one for me and another one for a friend, also a Teman
Monofly and a Falcon XP. In engines and stuf a built 3 VW engine
conversions a 1/2 VW, several propelers, etc. Now I am loooking for a
good core to build a Corvair engine...
I can hardly remember all the plans that I have now, and plan to buy a
set of "Suris Bulle" plans (French wooden Motorglider) that looks like
a great thing, this Christmas.
Of Course I have a set of original Pietenpol and GN-1 plans...
My personal limit is US$ 300.00 a set, but I have made a few excepcions
;-) I am not fan of the fiberglass projects, to much sanding and dust.
Hope you build a Piet.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- hjarrett wrote:
>
>
> I thought long and hard about bidding on the plans. The thing is I
> am
> looking for a set as a REFERENCE ONLY. I have several sets of plans
> I have
> gotten as copies and when I was ready to start on a Graham Lee
> Nieuport I
> bought a set of serial numbered plans to make it legal. It is
> extremely
> unethical to build a second plane off of the same plans and deprive
> the
> designer of the meager income they generate. After thinking about it
> I felt
> that buying them would only encourage him to sell additional copies
> and
> didn't bid. Of course I am still in the position that I would really
> like
> to study the plans and don't have access to a set.
> How would I go about getting a set to study and NOT build from? I
> have a
> pant load of projects and don't have time to add another but the
> engineer in
> me really wants to look at how BP solved a bunch of design problems.
> Hank J
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Question from eBay Member
>
>
>
> >
> > Hey Jim-- what an idiot this guys is.......luckily he's only
> getting about
> > $30 bucks for it with 10 minutes to go. Here is what I just wrote
> to the
> guy
> >
> > Dear mgp60,
> > Having purchased the plans from the Pietenpol family and building
> and
> > flying my own Pietenpol, I was sorry to see that you have copied
> the plans
> > and have them for sale on ebay. The entire Pietenpol e-mail list
> is
> aware
> > of what you are doing and are encouraged not to bid on your item.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Question from eBay Member |
Good for you, Jim. He can't say "I didn't know..."
There's a guy (ebay alias of "Uncle Willie") that's doing this on a
wholesale basis (and making a fortune at it) with model airplane plans. Even
worse than copying other's plans, he "fixes" them. Apparently, eBay really
doesn't care to take action on wholesale copyright fraud taking place on
it's site, especially if the original copyright owner isn't making the
complaint.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=155971&highlight=w
illie
Not all future Piet builders would go for this, fortunately. Heck, I have a
copied set of plans that a Piet-building friend gave me. I couldn't afford
to buy the real ones, so I got them as a head start to look over while I
dream about my future project. Yet even though I probably could build from
them, I won't do it, nor will I give them to someone else. When I get ready
to start, I will buy a new set from the Pietenpol family. Not only will I be
sure to have all the right plans, but I can rest at night knowing that I've
helped make it worthwhile to Bernie's family to go to the trouble to
continue the fine tradition that he gave to us all. They aren't getting rich
on the plans, I'm 100% sure of that. Then the copies will make functional
wallpaper for the shop bathroom or something.
Shame on these people. It's sad that they have no respect for those who make
this airplane a viable option. Fortunately they're the exception and not the
rule.
-Mike
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Fw: Question from eBay Member
>
> If anyone knows of anyone thinking about buying the Piet plans advertised
on
> eBay.....please don't....without EVEN discussing the legalities, it's just
> not right to make copies of these plans and sell them.....just ain't
> right....
>
> I usually manage to stay out of stuff that isn't any of my concern but I
> just couldn't keep quiet about this one....
>
> This is the reply I got to an inquiry about where he was getting the
> plans.....
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <mackpaul60(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 3:36 PM
> Subject: Question from eBay Member
>
>
> Dear dfwplt,
>
> All the Pientepol plans I have for sale are copies of the originals. Hope
> this helps.
>
>
> To respond to this eBay member go to:
>
>
http://contact.ebay.com/ws1/ebayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserEmail&requested=mgp60&fr
m=-1&iid=-1&de=off&redirect=0&contactsubmit=Contact+Member
>
> Thank you,
> mgp60
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: solar charger |
Dont expect too much from a small solar charger. On most of these smaller units
you won't get more than a trickle charge, maybe 1/4 amp per hour at about 18
volts. Not enough to fry a battery but enough to replace what a handheld radio
would use. How many trips away from home will you fly? And for how many flight
hours, with what size battery? If the current draw for the round trip is
less than 1/2 the capacity, why bother? On the other hand, the worst possible
thing will always happen at the worst possible time, so if you have the space,
why not?
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: solar charger
Hey guys,
I saw Chuck Ganzer's solar panel he uses to charge a small battery which in turn
powers his GPS, radio etc.
I thought this was a great idea but am not electrically minded enough to figure
it out.
I can get a small solar panel and install it in my top wing. Then some wiring
to a small battery, which goes back to some plugs for my intercom and gps etc.
My question is what is the voltage we need? will these items run off a 12v battery?
I can get a nice small 1lb 12v. Also, how do you keep it from overcharging
without much weight? or do you just have a disconnect switch when the battery
is full?
This would clearly be for when one is away from home, but it's clean and always
ready.
Any electric experts out there?
thanks,
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lynn Knoll" <dknoll(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
John,
It hurt to look at the picture of your wounded Piet but we are all thankful you
were not wounded. I met you at Brodhead and I appreciate you taking time to answer
several questions I had about your plane. It is certainly a beautiful Piet.
Based on the outstanding workmanship of your Piet the furniture you build
for your wife should be strictly "blue ribbon" quality. Stay in touch with us
and send us a picture of the completed furniture.
Lynn Knoll
Wichita
Piet/Vair in the works
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
John, glad you're OK. Mountain Piet will be too, someday.
Are you building the furniture as a Light Sport Sofa to hold two people at a time?
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
To: Pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:16 PM
Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet is wounded!
Pieters,
I can't thank you all enough for your concerns about both "Mountain Piet" and
myself.
When I started this project in 1995, I wanted to build a Pietenpol with enough
horsepower at my field elevation (7000 ft msl) that I could fly it safely and
get it in and out of primitive strips here in the Rockies at higher elevations.
In this, I feel that I have succeeded. A Pietenpol is a fine, simple design
that will handle more horsepower even at a higher gross weight and can perform
on a par with even a 180 hp super cub up here in our rarified air.
Your advice to wait a little while before making a decision to sell the bird
is good advice, but I had already decided before the accident to sell the plane.
The project, in my mind anyway, was completed and I had proved my point.
Not only has the project succeeded, but other factors have entered into my decision
to sell the plane. My age for one, I am 77 years old and have been flying
since 1946 (Damn'd, I just realized that is 58 years!). Also entering the
decision to sell, I have found that an open cockpit here in the Rockies at altitude
is darned cold, limiting the use of the plane to only a few months of the
year.
And then there is the family, I had promised to build some new furniture over
10 years ago for my wife and never seemed to get around to it. I have a whole
lot of deferred maintenance to do around the house. Kids and grandkids are
urging granddad to "give it up, you have cheated death enough times in those airplanes".
It just the right time to sell "Mountain Piet" and get to doing some of the
other things that need doing around here, the decision to sell was not precipitated
by the accident.
I have mentioned this accident to participants on the list first because I would
rather the plane go to someone who is knowledgable, enthusiastic, will do
a good job of repair and appreciate the design and it's heritage. I hope you
all will understand this.
Thanks again for your concerns and comments, it is good to feel all the support
that you offer.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | More hangar space |
John,
I have a very nice heated hangar about 60 north of the IA-MN border right on Interstate
35 in Faribault, MN that you are welcome to use for any repair work to
Mountain Piet and it is free. The airplane could always be fetched for you.
Chris Bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.net" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: hinged / removable turtledeck |
Dick,
Is yours 1/16"th ply over the t.d.? I'd like to take a closer look at how you
did that if you wouldn't mind.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
I just checked some of the 877 e-mails I have, and saw the misfortune that
John had. Thank God, it didn't turn out any worse.
John, one of the things I've discovered is that there are lots of folks, not
just in the Pietenpol comunity, but airplane people in general, who are ready,
willing, and able to help you. Even anxious to help. Airplane people are
the greatest !! I hope you kick back and think about it for a while, before
you sell 'Mountain Piet'.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
What is nice guys, is that when you order your plans from.......and here is
the Pietenpol Family Web Site where
you can also learn lots about the plane's
history, http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/ Donald Pietenpol he (or at
least he did when I ordered my plans from him) sent a typed letter, signed
and noted with a plans number at the bottom of the page. That is nice to
have, for me at least.
Turns out that the guy on ebay has sold other sets of these copies of the
Pietenpol plans and as expected, he did not respond to my e-mail telling
him of our collective disappointment in his actions.
When I rec'd my plans, another would-be builder in the area that has huge
bucks, offered to "take my plans and make copies of them" so that I could
have a "working set and a reference set". That was total BS because I
knew this cheap #$%
SS would make a second set for himself in the
process. I told him no and gave him the address of Donald Pietenpol and
Donald's number. I guess to each his own on this issue, but I know where
I stand. Let others decide as they will.
PS-- these are about the least expensive plans out there I have ever seen
too, even if you order the supplementals, etc.
Mike C.
PS-- good eye, Jim Markle for rooting this guy out for us to know about.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
This guy has sold 3 sets of fake/copied Pietenpol plans so far. On July
7th he sold a set for $51, on July 15th for $31, and July 29th for
$31. Looks like he's got the hang of it.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
PietenpolDon(at)juno.com
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | copied plans being sold on ebay |
Dear Don & Andrew-- I just thought I'd let you know that the guys on the
Pietenpol e-mail discussion group just made note that a seller on
ebay, mgp60 is selling a 23 page copied set of plans from YOUR
originals. He's sold three sets since July 7th for $51, $31, and another
$31. I e-mailed him telling him that the entire Pietenpol e-mail list is
onto him and that we are disappointed in his actions. He didn't respond
to me. Evidently this guy is doing this with model and ultralight plans
as well. I regularly post where the listers can obtain plans-- your
Family Web Site. I know it's difficult to stop people from doing this,
but at least I thought I'd let you know we are trying to help you out and
stop fakes like this from selling fraudulent plans. Hope all is well on
your end,
Best regards,
Mike Cuy
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | wire wheel myths |
Another guy besides Jim Malley (nice to see you on the list, Jim) who has
run motorcycle wheels for a long time is Wil Graf
of Wadsworth, Ohio. Wil has flown his Piet to Brodhead many times and
Oshkosh too. Never a wheel problem in gusty crosswind landings. I was
sold on this widening of the hubs for years but the more time passes, the
less I ever hear of anything about wire wheel failures-- stock or
built-up. I did hear of one guy in WA who made up his own wheel hubs
wider and one collapsed on a 2nd or 3rd landing since new. He thought, as
I recall, that the spoke tension was not equal or enough to support the
loads. I say go with whatever looks/effort/resource you are happy with in
the wire wheel dept.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Howdy, low and slow fliers;
The truth is, as John said, he was ready to sell "Mountain Piet" even last
year when I visited him. He had proven that he could build what he set out
to build, and wanted to pass the airplane on to someone who would fly it and
show it and use it more than he is able to. But as far as the rebuild of
the bird, I recall the old days (older than me, even) when a farmer would
lose a barn in a fire or storm and the neighbors would all pitch in to have
a barn-raisin' and have fun while helping out a friend in need. Same seems
to be happening with the Piet folks here... somebody has some ribs, somebody
has spar material, some fabric, dope, worktable... and over a week or so
this bird could be back in the air and headed home for a paint job. All the
metal fittings should be re-usable, the majority of the AN hardware, and so
forth. I've balled up motorcycles in my earlier years and felt that same
feeling, push the thing into a dark corner and never want to ride again.
Give it to somebody who wanted to mess with it, for free or very cheap. We
all know Mountain Piet (and John) deserve better than that.
The engine is a whole 'nother thing, but John knows his engine too... and
I'm sure that will get sorted out.
Since I'm on the digest I didn't get any pictures of the injured bird (if
any were posted). I'd appreciate seeing the pictures, if someone could
email them to me direct.
And I do like the concept of the "Sport Pilot Sofa" that will be John's next
shop project... pilot and passenger only... but in my case there would have
to be a baggage allowance of at least 65 lbs. for "Squeaker", our pit bull.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | older pilots- off topic |
Pieters- a little news about Charlie Avaritt, my CFI who is also the person
who ferried my new Piet from Corky's place in Louisiana back down here to
Texas.
Charlie flies corporate charter for some impressive clients. Lately he's
heard scuttlebutt that they are thinking they need a younger pilot... that
Charlie may have torn a few too many pages off his calendar for their
corporate image or something.
So I told Charlie he could be my corporate Pietenpol pilot... because in the
Piet world, older is better! (Sterling: how's that for another idea for a
shirt?! ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
I have personally witnessed two wire wheel failures on WWI reproductions. Both
were motorcycle wheels. One did collapse sideways during a ground loop and the
other collapsed the rim during a huge bounce, which might have happend to anything.
I made up a set of wheels with brakes for a WWI replica (1800lbs) and tested them
on a utility trailer loaded to actual plane weight and roared around bends,
with no failure or problems. These were the standard six inch hub, but with
the "offset" used during WWI and mentioned below.
Some observations.
1. Most antique wire wheels have an "offset" to the rim so that the outside of
the hub protrudes farther. This is because the sideloads experienced from the
inside are neglegable while the outside takes most of the sideloads from landings.
The larger the angle the spokes take, the stronger they will be at resisting
sideloads. You don't see most wheels set up anymore, but we probably should.
2. If you're not using brakes, don't use a cross pattern when lacing them up,
use a straight pattern. IF you're using brakes you absolutely must use a cross
pattern since your brake hub wants to spin inside the wheel when brakes are
applied.
3. THE place most bike shops send their wheels to is Buchannans spoke and rim
in Azusa, CA. They have laced up countless wheels for planes and bikes and know
their stuff.
Motorcyles do not experience sideloads, and my guess is that sidecars experience
sideloads far less dramatic than an airplane. People knew a lot more about
wire wheels on airplanes and horse buggies 80 years ago than they do now, so their
designs are probably based on much more experience than our own. It's not
a big job to make up some hubs and have them spoked, and well worth the piece
of mind.
$ .02
Douwe
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
Motorcyles do not experience sideloads, and my guess is that sidecars experience
sideloads far less dramatic than an airplane.
Hey wait just a minute!!! Evil Kneivel might disagree!! His motorcyclyes have
experienced side loads and the tires have gone one way when the motorcycle
went another way......wait, it was his rear end that went the other way.....never
mind......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: solar charger |
I've been thinking about a small wind-driven DC motor/generator using a
model airplane propeller mounted in the prop stream. It looks good to me
(sort of). Is there a latent problem there that I need to be aware of? Carl
Vought
wrote :
>
>
>
> Dont expect too much from a small solar charger. On most of these
smaller units you won't get more than a trickle charge, maybe 1/4 amp per
hour at about 18 volts. >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAsAhQA/VIdtm1ociUL3VZkti0SI4RD2AIUPJqcVBT3LYDic3Mw0arYWSukZ+s=
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Tw steering-wire wheels |
Like Corky, I made 3" extension arms for my tail wheel to slow down the
steering. I haven' flown yet, so I can't comment on how it works. In
an old issue of the Int. Piet. news letter Chad Willie wrote a note on
how his dad went sliding down the runway sideways from 50 mph with no
damage to his stock motorcycle wheels. This was years ago, so the wheels
may have been borrowd from Fred Flintstone. I always wondered if the
stories about side load failures were just tall tales. Leon Stefan.
Having Wisconsin weather in Kansas.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers" <wayne(at)engravers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: solar charger |
Model airplane propellers are made to be going quite a few thousand of RPM's
not a few hundred at best, so the pitch would not be correct for your idea.
What are the winds at your location? You will have to make this unit
weathervane to stay into the wind to get the most from it. I would check out
what they have for boating, they have been doing it for years and you won't
have to reinvent or prototype a new design.
With a solar charger they can be left right in the cockpit on the glare
shield or in front of any solar reflector.
Wayne
>
> I've been thinking about a small wind-driven DC motor/generator using a
> model airplane propeller mounted in the prop stream. It looks good to me
> (sort of). Is there a latent problem there that I need to be aware of?
Carl
> Vought
>
>
> wrote :
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Dont expect too much from a small solar charger. On most of these
> smaller units you won't get more than a trickle charge, maybe 1/4 amp per
> hour at about 18 volts. >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: solar charger |
Most of the portable 12V electronics like GPS and handheld transcievers can have
neat little re-chargeable Nickel-Metal-Hydride (NmH) batteries or Ni-CAD storage
batteries that are not too big... Like cell phones have. These batteries
outlast energizers and duracells by a long shot. I think the solar panel idea
is a great way to keep a continual charge going on these. I believe this is
what Chuck has...he can confirm this. One thing I would like to learn is how
much current can you get per square inch of solar panel... and if a reasonably
small one has enough juice to keep up with the load of the desired equipment.
For my cell phone in my car, I have a great little $10 cig. lighter charge adapter
that has a stand-by feature to prevent continual charge if the battery is
full. That might be a solution to the worry of over charging.
In Chucks system, he also has a little 12V motorcycle battery installed on the
firewall to run his smoke pump. I am not sure if he has the solar panel wired
in to charge this battery or not. But it makes me wonder if such a battery could
be wired in as an effective backup power supply for GPS and handheld.
One other note....It was interesting for me to see Chuck's little LED charge indicator.
It was indicating a 5V charge from that little solar panel well after
sundown into dusk.
Whenever Chuck gets back home and has a chance to wade thru all his emails, we
need to urge him to give us a report on his little charging system. He may have
a good solution there.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Piet electronics |
Pieters,
While the list is thinking solar voltage etc I will ask a few questions.
I wish to install a solar charger on 311CC. I wish to install a Transponder.
I too was impressed with Chuck Gantzer's avionics. I will wire it for nav
lights and strobe. Not for me but maybe for a future owner. Will have a handheld
com radio and GPS with internal supply sourse.
For the xponder operation, what size battery would be needed? What size solar
panel would be needed for the operational recharge of Transponder drain? What
drain from nav lights and strobe?
Limited night flying of course. Forget the weight factor I'll be solo 99% of
the time. I vision the xponder mounted vertically angled back on the right
side of cockpit in that 1 inch space against the ply side. The xponder is about
1
1/2 inches high.
It hit 100 here yesterday. Maybe I was out in the sun too long. Anyway I
would appreciate any feedback on this subject. Thanks
Corky, in La planting orange, grapefruit and satsumas trees today.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: solar charger |
I was going to do the same thing. I did tests using an RC airplane engine
starter bolted to a 12" prop. I managed to get about 13 amps out of it.
The only problem I found was that a standard RC prop would begin to spin
until wind hitting it was over 40mph.
A homemade prop made from 1/8" aluminum with a coarse pitch would do much
better.
you will also need a voltage regulator to keep the voltage down and to
dissapate the extra energy as heat.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: solar charger
>
> I've been thinking about a small wind-driven DC motor/generator using a
> model airplane propeller mounted in the prop stream. It looks good to me
> (sort of). Is there a latent problem there that I need to be aware of?
Carl
> Vought
>
>
> wrote :
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Dont expect too much from a small solar charger. On most of these
> smaller units you won't get more than a trickle charge, maybe 1/4 amp per
> hour at about 18 volts. >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com> |
Douwe, You would not believe the loads put on a sidecar wheel. The sidecar wheel
on the right side of a bike takes tremendous punishment in left hand turns,
so much that the rear wheel of the bike actually unloads itself. With a sidecar
the bikes wheels take the punishment in right turns. Unlike an airplane
the bike spends a lot of time in the cornering mode with power applied. Don't
underestimate the forces a sidecar rig handles. Normal driving with a bike
no sidecar the tire will last close to 40 thousand miles, with a side car I'm
happy if I get 8 to 10.
Jim Dallas
An avid Sidecarist
Avid corvairist
But building a Piet and a Hatz not an Avid
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheels
Motorcyles do not experience sideloads, and my guess is that sidecars experience
sideloads far less dramatic than an airplane. People knew a lot more about
wire wheels on airplanes and horse buggies 80 years ago than they do now, so
their designs are probably based on much more experience than our own. It's
not a big job to make up some hubs and have them spoked, and well worth the piece
of mind.
$ .02
Douwe
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
DJ,
Any recommendations on which motor/generator to use? I'm using a C-75 on my
Piet and would love to dispense with the "engine driven electrical system"
but also don't want to depend on separately recharging radio and GPS.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: solar charger
I was going to do the same thing. I did tests using an RC airplane engine
starter bolted to a 12" prop. I managed to get about 13 amps out of it.
The only problem I found was that a standard RC prop would begin to spin
until wind hitting it was over 40mph.
A homemade prop made from 1/8" aluminum with a coarse pitch would do much
better.
you will also need a voltage regulator to keep the voltage down and to
dissapate the extra energy as heat.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: solar charger
>
> I've been thinking about a small wind-driven DC motor/generator using a
> model airplane propeller mounted in the prop stream. It looks good to me
> (sort of). Is there a latent problem there that I need to be aware of?
Carl
> Vought
>
>
> wrote :
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Dont expect too much from a small solar charger. On most of these
> smaller units you won't get more than a trickle charge, maybe 1/4 amp per
> hour at about 18 volts. >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: solar charger |
the RC engine starter is probably not the optimum but it's been used before
by others with good results. It's cheap to at about $35.
You have to experiment with the proper pitch of the prop (on the generator)
to get the rpms where they need to be at cruise flight.
From there any tractor 12V regulator would work fine. The regulator I'm
using on my engine driven generator is from John Deere. Has large aluminmum
heat sink fins to get rid of the heat.
check this link...... it shows how a guy used an RC engine starter as a
generator on his Cub
http://www.pipercubforum.com/windgen.htm
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: solar charger
>
> DJ,
>
> Any recommendations on which motor/generator to use? I'm using a C-75 on
my
> Piet and would love to dispense with the "engine driven electrical system"
> but also don't want to depend on separately recharging radio and GPS.
>
> Gene
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:11 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: solar charger
>
>
> I was going to do the same thing. I did tests using an RC airplane
engine
> starter bolted to a 12" prop. I managed to get about 13 amps out of it.
>
> The only problem I found was that a standard RC prop would begin to spin
> until wind hitting it was over 40mph.
>
> A homemade prop made from 1/8" aluminum with a coarse pitch would do much
> better.
>
> you will also need a voltage regulator to keep the voltage down and to
> dissapate the extra energy as heat.
>
> DJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 7:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: solar charger
>
>
>
> >
> > I've been thinking about a small wind-driven DC motor/generator using a
> > model airplane propeller mounted in the prop stream. It looks good to me
> > (sort of). Is there a latent problem there that I need to be aware of?
> Carl
> > Vought
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > wrote :
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dont expect too much from a small solar charger. On most of these
> > smaller units you won't get more than a trickle charge, maybe 1/4 amp
per
> > hour at about 18 volts. >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: solar charger |
I guess I didn't express myself very carefully. I was suggesting the
generator/prop as a substitute for the solar cells. Even a small perminant
magnet DC motor connected as a generator, mounted on the airplane and
driven by a prop could out-charge a modest solar cell array and would be a
lot cheaper. I would mount it somewhere on the fuselage, in the propwash. I
posed the question because I suspect that there's a lot of drag associated
with it. Your thought about the pitch suggests that drag might be minimized
by an optimum choice of pitch and diameter...Carl Vought
wrote :
>
> Model airplane propellers are made to be going quite a few thousand of
RPM's
> not a few hundred at best, so the pitch would not be correct for your
idea.
> What are the winds at your location? You will have to make this unit
> weathervane to stay into the wind to get the most from it. I would check
out
> what they have for boating, they have been doing it for years and you
won't
> have to reinvent or prototype a new design.
>
> With a solar charger they can be left right in the cockpit on the glare
> shield or in front of any solar reflector.
>
> Wayne
>
>
> >
> > I've been thinking about a small wind-driven DC motor/generator using a
> > model airplane propeller mounted in the prop stream. It looks good to me
> > (sort of). Is there a latent problem there that I need to be aware of?
> Carl
> > Vought
> >
> >
> > wrote :
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dont expect too much from a small solar charger. On most of these
> > smaller units you won't get more than a trickle charge, maybe 1/4 amp
per
> > hour at about 18 volts. >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Regarding the wind-driven generator thing, Bill Bronson (writes for Engine
Q&A in what used to be EAA Experimenter) sells a complete how-to on making
one. Try him at onehalfvwguy(at)worldnet.att.net or look in the classifieds in
the back of any past issue of Experimenter from recent years.
Regarding current draw of various things, Mark Langford has good
documentation on the items in the panel of his KR, at
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kpanel.html ; just scroll down past the
listing of cost of the items he has in his panel and you'll find his numbers
for amp draw, how he sized his battery, etc... or read the whole page on his
instrument panel. It's good info.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | a small 12 volt battery |
<>
A friend of mine rigged up a small 12 volt battery (4"x3"x3") that he wired
a cig. pigtail lighter socket too
to run the gps off of. I got the cig. adapter for the gps and he rigged up
a 110vdc charger that I charge
the battery with before I go on a trip. Works fine for hours and hours
unless you have one of those big
screen color Garmins.......you just charge the battery wherever you happen
to stay that night. I charged mine
in the hangar at Brodhead last year.
Mike C.
PS-- I have a little carrying case for the battery and charger and just
strap it in the front seat while flying.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
I saw Mountain Piet at Brodhead and was blown away by the workmanship.
Just want you to know that your work is an inspiration for this builder
and your handling of the engine-out a good example for pilots. Your
story will be in the back of my mind when I do run-ups now--thanks on
all counts. We're all lucky that you were able to walk away.
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
----- Original Message -----
From: baileys
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet is wounded!
Bob,
Thanks, I appreciate your offer to help and make a few ribs for me, but have
really decided to let "Mountain Piet" go.
I now consider the project complete and a satisfying part of "my former life".
Time for someone else to take over now
Thanks again for the offer, I appreciate it.
John
John,
I'm very sorry to learn of the accident. Sure I might be interested but I would
say don't sell it until you have given it some more thought. In six months
you may be kicking yourself and saying "Why did I ever let it go?" Heck I still
regret selling a little Farmall Cub I didn't need at the moment.
It looks like parts of the wing might be salvageable. Maybe others could give
you a hand, I know I would be willing to build a few ribs or at least cut some
parts for you.
Kind regards,
Bob B. - Missouri
P.S. The brighter side is they could have taken you out of there on a stretcher.
8
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet is wounded!
Dick,
Thanks for your offer but the plane is safely tucked away in a tight T-Hangar
in Jefferson IA.
The folks there were wonderfully helpful, I can't do enough to ever repay them.
Thanks again though, for your offer.
John
John
Glad to hear you walked away ok.
Do you need a place to store the plane for a while? I am in Mpls, Mn and have
some spare hangar space and a trailer.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
To: Pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet is wounded!
Pieters,
Sad news to report. After I left Brodhead and with an overnight stop in Marshalltown,
I arrived in Jefferson IA.
Early the next morning, I took off and headed west over the town. It was a
beautiful morning, slightly hazy wih the sun just coming over the horizon. I
was just over the west edge of town in a cruise climb configuration at about
500 feet when the engine quit, just like someone turned off the ignition. I only
had one choice, which was a small backyard pasture of a home on the edge of
town.
At one end of the field, there was a gap in between some trees and so I headed
there, "threaded the needle" and put Mountain Piet down. The terrain was
uphill and so the rollout was going to be fairly short, but still dicey whether
or not I could get the plane stopped before the barn, so I decided to ground
loop Piet. As I started to swing around to the right, the left wing struck some
large posts about 1/2 way out on the span. The impact swung the plane around
to the left and next thing I knew, I had a crumpled wing wrapped around the
left side of Mountain Piet.
I climbed out and looked around expecting someone to come out of one of the
nearby houses. Dead silence! No one showed up. I got the camera out and decided
to take a few pictures of the plane along with the offending posts. Still
no one! I put the camera away and walked up to the house which was located
behind the barn and found a small shop with the radio going and a sign that read,
"Rug Weaving".
Went inside and found an older gentleman working on a loom. Told him that
I had just crashed my plane in his pasture, and asked to use the phone. "Over
there" he said. and kept on weaving. Got a card out of my wallet and called
the manager of the Jefferson Airport hoping that he was up. He answered and said
he would come out right away, "What's the address?" I asked the man who was
still weaving and he said "811 West South Street" and I repeated it to the
airport manager.
The man weaving stopped, looked me over and asked if I was hurt, I said no,
he went back to weaving the rug he was working on. Acted as if the crash was
an everyday occurance. We talked for awhile about how he got into the rug weaving
business, where he sold them and how he made them etc. Finally he said,
"Well, let's go take a look." We went out and looked the situation over. Satisfied
he went back to the shop, I went out and sat on the curb in front of the
house waiting for Kirk, the airport manager, to arrive.
Kirk arrived and we figured out the tools required and both of us went to the
airport to get them. Still no one around the plane. Kirk phoned a friend
who had a trailer and he said he would help.
Went back to the pasture and found a neighbor had come out of his house along
with several kids standing around the Mountain Piet just respectfully looking
things over. We took the wings off, loaded the plane, I went back to the shop
and thanked the Weaver for the use of his pasture and then we headed for the
airport. There was a tight hangar and we put Piet in there.
Tried to start engine and it would start right away, run a moment and then
die. Fuel pressure OK, but acted as if the filter had clogged up. No water in
fuel when we checked, I was in no mood to pull cowl and start trouble shooting.
Locked up hangar and called friend who was at Oshkosh on his cell phone.
He said would come in his new RV-8 and retrieve me. Good, I guess that I will
spend a few unplanned days at the show! We flew home in the -8 monday.
The damage to Piet is confined to the wing which is toast, but I would also
pull the center section and take a close look at it. The front spar of the center
section shows slight damage where the metal fitting attaches to the wing
panel. Everything else on Mountain Piet seems OK.
I simply don't have the heart to build another wing panel for the plane so
am going to sell it where is and as is, for the best offer. Anyone interested?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
----- Original Message -----
From: Textor, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 7:29 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet is wounded!
Thanks Jack,
I plan to sell "Mountain Piet" where is and as is. Although I will fly in when
the purchaser comes in to pick it up so as to make sure he is satisfied and
the plane is loaded properly for transport.
I appreciate your offer!
John
John,
Glad you got out unhurt! I'm in Des Moines which is about an hour from Jefferson.
If I can assist with any ground work here just let me know.
Jack Textor
515-225-7000 work
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
----- Original Message -----
From: Textor, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 7:29 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet is wounded!
Jack,
Thanks for your offer.
I plan to fly in and help the purchaser load "Mountain Piet" for transport and
to make sure that he is satisfied with his purchase.
If we should run into problems, I'll sure give you a call though!
John
John,
Glad you got out unhurt! I'm in Des Moines which is about an hour from Jefferson.
If I can assist with any ground work here just let me know.
Jack Textor
515-225-7000 work
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet is wounded!
==============================
Terry,
Thanks for your concern and the reference, I'll certainly keep this in mind.
John
==============================
>
> John,
> Sorry to hear about your difficulty. How far is the airplane from Ottumwa
and Blakesburg IA? This is the home of the Antique Airplane Association,
which has a Pietenpol group of its own. These guys are Pietenpol friendly
and may be able to offer assistance.
>
> Glad you walked away without injury.
> --
> Terry L. Bowden
> ph 254-715-4773
> fax 254-853-3805
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
<7343d89c04080507344094e008(at)mail.gmail.com>
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Hargrove" <ronhargrove(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet is wounded!
============================
Ron,
Good thought! Next time I'll design a ground proximity sensor to override
the computer!
Serously, I think it was something fuel related, and even though we checked
for water in the fuel after the accident, it may be some physical
contamination that plugged up the filter. My pickup for the fuel pressure
guage is located between the pump and filter. I think it should have been
located someplace on the fuel rail instead.
Thanks,
John
===========================
>
> I certainly am glad you weren't hurt in the landing. I also hate to
> hear about the Mountain Piet, as it is a remarkable piece of
> workmanship. Dollars to donuts, I would bet you lost oil pressure to
> the turbo, and the auto computer shut down the engine to save turbo
> damage, not knowing you weren't on the ground anymore...
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Textor, Jack <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:29:57 -0500
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet is wounded!
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> John,
>
> Glad you got out unhurt! I'm in Des Moines which is about an hour
> from Jefferson. If I can assist with any ground work here just let me
> know.
>
> Jack Textor
>
> 515-225-7000 work
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
<7343d89c04080507344094e008(at)mail.gmail.com>
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Piet is wounded! |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Hargrove" <ronhargrove(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet is wounded!
===============================
Ron,
Thanks for the suggestion, next time I'll design a ground proximity sensor
which will override the computer!
Seriously though, we think it was a fuel problem although there was no water
in the fuel when we checked. There was fuel pressure showing on the gauge
after the landing, however if the filter was blocked, the guage would still
show pressure since the pickup is located between the pump and the filter.
Should have been located on the fuel rail instead.
Thanks again for your concern and suggestion.
John
==============================
>
> I certainly am glad you weren't hurt in the landing. I also hate to
> hear about the Mountain Piet, as it is a remarkable piece of
> workmanship. Dollars to donuts, I would bet you lost oil pressure to
> the turbo, and the auto computer shut down the engine to save turbo
> damage, not knowing you weren't on the ground anymore...
>
>
>>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Morris <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com> |
Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
| Subject: | Re: solar charger |
Hi.
Try buying one of those little rubber band powered "skeeter" balsa wood
models. The little 4 inch prop is quite coarse in pitch. You will want
to turn it around backwards to drive your little motor. Take a 12 volt
motor (small - try radio shack or mouser.com) and push the prop onto
it. You will need to slightly drill out the hub. Mount this little
fellow on a stick, and hold it out the car window while your copilot
drives down the freeway at the legal limit in your area - a good
headwind would also help this test. Test it for voltage and for
amperage output. This will let you know if it will work as a power
input device. Unless the voltage is excessively high, I wouldn't bother
with a regulator for so small a current - the battery will absorb the
extra voltage. A person could use a transistor circuit that
automatically took the motor off-line while it was not spinning, but a
simpler solution would be to just hook it up to a simple switch (your
ignition switch???) so that it is on when you are flying.
If interested, I could probably draw up a zener diode and transistor
"voltage regulator" that would handle a couple of watts of power and
cost about 5 bucks to build. I just got done with a magneto timer
circuit that was a lot more difficult.
-Don
Carl D. Vought wrote:
>
>I guess I didn't express myself very carefully. I was suggesting the
>generator/prop as a substitute for the solar cells. Even a small perminant
>magnet DC motor connected as a generator, mounted on the airplane and
>driven by a prop could out-charge a modest solar cell array and would be a
>lot cheaper. I would mount it somewhere on the fuselage, in the propwash. I
>posed the question because I suspect that there's a lot of drag associated
>with it. Your thought about the pitch suggests that drag might be minimized
>by an optimum choice of pitch and diameter...Carl Vought
>
>
> wrote :
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Model airplane propellers are made to be going quite a few thousand of
>>
>>
>RPM's
>
>
>>not a few hundred at best, so the pitch would not be correct for your
>>
>>
>idea.
>
>
>>What are the winds at your location? You will have to make this unit
>>weathervane to stay into the wind to get the most from it. I would check
>>
>>
>out
>
>
>>what they have for boating, they have been doing it for years and you
>>
>>
>won't
>
>
>>have to reinvent or prototype a new design.
>>
>>With a solar charger they can be left right in the cockpit on the glare
>>shield or in front of any solar reflector.
>>
>>Wayne
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I've been thinking about a small wind-driven DC motor/generator using a
>>>model airplane propeller mounted in the prop stream. It looks good to me
>>>(sort of). Is there a latent problem there that I need to be aware of?
>>>
>>>
>>Carl
>>
>>
>>>Vought
>>>
>>>
>>> wrote :
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Dont expect too much from a small solar charger. On most of these
>>>>
>>>>
>>>smaller units you won't get more than a trickle charge, maybe 1/4 amp
>>>
>>>
>per
>
>
>>>hour at about 18 volts. >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Morris <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com> |
Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
| Subject: | Re: Magneto stuff |
Hi.
Tried to find the documentation on the magneto, but didn't have any
luck. Perhaps someone else on the list has a manual...
-Don
Carl D. Vought wrote:
>
>Hi Don...Thanks to you and the others for your responses. The nameplate
>that is now on the mag indicates that it was rebuilt at the Slick factory
>in Rockford, IL. The model number is given as 4250R (presumably the "R"
>stands for "REBUILT") and the SN is 3070088. No lag is listed on the plate,
>presumably because it was not and is not equipped with an impulse coupling.
>Interestingly, an "L" is stamped on the plate by the legend "ROT.", but a
>hand-painted arrow painted on the case indicates clockwise rotation as
>viewed from the rear of the case. My application is on a Model-A engine.
>The mag will be side-mounted and will be rotated in the same direction as
>the prop....Thanks again...Carl
>
>
>wrote :
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>
>>Hi.
>>
>>Two things - there is the right and left magneto on the engine
>>(obviously). However, the RH and the LH does not refer to this, if I
>>understand correctly.>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto stuff |
Thanks for trying...I'm satisfied I'll get this thing going, one way or
another...Carl
wrote :
>
>
> Hi.
>
> Tried to find the documentation on the magneto, but didn't have any
> luck. Perhaps someone else on the list has a manual...
>
> -Don
>
> Carl D. Vought wrote:
>
> >
> >Hi Don...Thanks to you and the others for your responses. The nameplate
> >that is now on the mag indicates that it was rebuilt at the Slick
factory
> >in Rockford, IL. The model number is given as 4250R (presumably the "R"
> >stands for "REBUILT") and the SN is 3070088. No lag is listed on the
plate,
> >presumably because it was not and is not equipped with an impulse
coupling.
> >Interestingly, an "L" is stamped on the plate by the legend "ROT.", but
a
> >hand-painted arrow painted on the case indicates clockwise rotation as
> >viewed from the rear of the case. My application is on a Model-A engine.
> >The mag will be side-mounted and will be rotated in the same direction
as
> >the prop....Thanks again...Carl
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >wrote :
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>Hi.
> >>
> >>Two things - there is the right and left magneto on the engine
> >>(obviously). However, the RH and the LH does not refer to this, if I
> >>understand correctly.>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Whoops!, didn't mean to use up all the bandwidth. |
Pieters,
Sorry, I felt that each of you deserved a individual reply to your E-Mails about
Mountain Piet. I didn't realize that I was sending each reply to the entire
list rather than to each individual. I have now changed to individual replies.
I'll try to be smarter in the future.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
I just gotta share this....I'm doing ash pieces for the straight axle landing gear....Didn't
have a 1 1/4" piece so I'm laminating two 3/4" pieces and will plane
that down to size.
Just realized I haven't done any vacuum bagging in over 10 years and now I remember
why I did in the first place! Perfect pressure all around....NO clamps!
Sometime in the near future I'll do a quick article with pictures explaining the
simple and cheap process.
Jim in Plano.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Data Plate Location |
I need some info on acceptable locations for the aircraft dataplate.
FAR 45 indicates it needs to go on the exterior of the aircraft near the tail surfaces
yet I've seen many with the dataplate in the cockpit.
What has been an acceptable location for the inspectors?
My preference is to mount it on the glovebox door.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatthe1(at)rochester.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum Bagging |
Jim,
What are you using for a pump? The wife used to use a car vac tester for
her marquetry. Vac bagging is really impressive on clamping pressure.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
At 09:41 PM 8/6/2004, you wrote:
>I just gotta share this....I'm doing ash pieces for the straight axle
>landing gear....Didn't have a 1 1/4" piece so I'm laminating two 3/4" pJim,
>ieces and will plane that down to size.
>
>Just realized I haven't done any vacuum bagging in over 10 years and now I
>remember why I did in the first place! Perfect pressure all around....NO
>clamps!
>
>Sometime in the near future I'll do a quick article with pictures
>explaining the simple and cheap process.
>
>Jim in Plano.....
>
>
>---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Forward CG limit |
I know the aft most CG location is 20" aft of the wing LE. That info is on the
plans. What about the recommended maximum forward CG location? I don't see it
on the plans and can't recall any discussions about it.
I'm getting all of the paperwork together for the final inspection and this bit
of info is needed.
Thanks,
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum Bagging |
I went to the city dump and pulled a (free!) refrigerant (freon maybe?) pump out
of a refrigerator......I left the rubber shock obsorber feet on it and can barely
tell when it cycles on and off......
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave and Connie
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vacuum Bagging
Jim,
What are you using for a pump? The wife used to use a car vac tester for her
marquetry. Vac bagging is really impressive on clamping pressure.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
At 09:41 PM 8/6/2004, you wrote:
I just gotta share this....I'm doing ash pieces for the straight axle landing
gear....Didn't have a 1 1/4" piece so I'm laminating two 3/4" pJim,
ieces and will plane that down to size.
Just realized I haven't done any vacuum bagging in over 10 years and now I
remember why I did in the first place! Perfect pressure all around....NO clamps!
Sometime in the near future I'll do a quick article with pictures explaining
the simple and cheap process.
Jim in Plano.....
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Data Plate Location |
No speculation here fellas. Greg needs to know what the data plate looks like,
exactly where it is and this is on airplanes that are already inpected by the
feds with their airworthiness certificates issued.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location
I need some info on acceptable locations for the aircraft dataplate.
FAR 45 indicates it needs to go on the exterior of the aircraft near the tail
surfaces yet I've seen many with the dataplate in the cockpit.
What has been an acceptable location for the inspectors?
My preference is to mount it on the glovebox door.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward CG limit |
Hi Greg
On both of your questions;
15 inches is the most forward CG
For my inspection I put mine on the panel of the forward cockpit, citing the rule
on antique models. That didnt get by with the inspector. I had to mount a
second one on the left side under the horiz stab.
Would you like a copy of the Piet operations manual? The inspector seemed to like
it. I posted it to the Matronics pic file.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit
I know the aft most CG location is 20" aft of the wing LE. That info is on the
plans. What about the recommended maximum forward CG location? I don't see it
on the plans and can't recall any discussions about it.
I'm getting all of the paperwork together for the final inspection and this bit
of info is needed.
Thanks,
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cory Emberson" <bootless(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Forward CG limit |
Hi Greg (Slightly off-topic)
Did you see the writeup in Kitplanes magazine about your panel? I think the
photos came out great! Your panel sure is a beauty.
best, Cory
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 7:21 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit
I know the aft most CG location is 20" aft of the wing LE. That info is on
the plans. What about the recommended maximum forward CG location? I don't
see it on the plans and can't recall any discussions about it.
I'm getting all of the paperwork together for the final inspection and
this bit of info is needed.
Thanks,
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: solar charger |
DJ
How many volts were you putting out at 13 amps? You will need to have about
15-18 volts to charge a 12 volt battery.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: solar charger
>
> I was going to do the same thing. I did tests using an RC airplane
engine
> starter bolted to a 12" prop. I managed to get about 13 amps out of it.
>
> The only problem I found was that a standard RC prop would begin to spin
> until wind hitting it was over 40mph.
>
> A homemade prop made from 1/8" aluminum with a coarse pitch would do much
> better.
>
> you will also need a voltage regulator to keep the voltage down and to
> dissapate the extra energy as heat.
>
> DJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 7:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: solar charger
>
>
>
> >
> > I've been thinking about a small wind-driven DC motor/generator using a
> > model airplane propeller mounted in the prop stream. It looks good to me
> > (sort of). Is there a latent problem there that I need to be aware of?
> Carl
> > Vought
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > wrote :
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dont expect too much from a small solar charger. On most of these
> > smaller units you won't get more than a trickle charge, maybe 1/4 amp
per
> > hour at about 18 volts. >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Forward CG limit |
Recommended Piet CG range is
25% to 33% chord
or in other words....15 in. to 20 in. aft of the wing L.E.
TLB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Forward CG limit |
What issue of Kitplanes??? I'll need to look for that!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cory Emberson" <bootless(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Forward CG limit |
It's the June issue, which is a few issues old. It's the Builder's Report
that's bannered across the top of the cover.
It's a *beautiful* panel!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:32 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit
What issue of Kitplanes??? I'll need to look for that!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: hinged / removable turtledeck |
Hi Tom
I used 1/8 in ply. I pre bent the wood wetting it occasionally for a week.
I have made some changes to that fuse. I wasnt happy with the clouded
appearance. It hopefully will be better now.
I am going out to Montana for a week, starting tomorrow. Give me a call
after I get back 612-805-1742
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hinged / removable turtledeck
>
>
> Dick,
>
> Is yours 1/16"th ply over the t.d.? I'd like to take a closer look at how
you did that if you wouldn't mind.
>
> Tom B.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward CG limit |
Dick,
I thought the instrument panel location for the data plate would not fly with Mr.
Norris.
What did your plate by the tail say on it? What is it attached to? What is it
made of?
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit
Hi Greg
On both of your questions;
15 inches is the most forward CG
For my inspection I put mine on the panel of the forward cockpit, citing the
rule on antique models. That didnt get by with the inspector. I had to mount
a second one on the left side under the horiz stab.
Would you like a copy of the Piet operations manual? The inspector seemed to
like it. I posted it to the Matronics pic file.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit
I know the aft most CG location is 20" aft of the wing LE. That info is on
the plans. What about the recommended maximum forward CG location? I don't see
it on the plans and can't recall any discussions about it.
I'm getting all of the paperwork together for the final inspection and this
bit of info is needed.
Thanks,
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | I.M. Dialogue with Chuck (long) |
Dear Gang,
I just had a few minutes with Chuck in AOL I.M. Here's our dialogue.
TLB
BARNSTMR: Chuck...where the heck are you?
Rcaprd: Hey Terry !!
I'm still at home, with my two sons, in Sherrard WV
Rcaprd: What an adventure !!
BARNSTMR: cool...I won't bug you...I know you must have a LOT of email.
Rcaprd: I've given 14 rides since I've been here !!
Rcaprd: I'm heading out tomorrow morning...270 heading
BARNSTMR: We are heading down to LaGrange Tcraft Factory tomorrow for EAA
BBQ. Plan to meet up with Mike King (GN-1) and his Brother (BC-65) there.
BARNSTMR: Hope your compass has little error...."wrongway"
Rcaprd: the plane is packed, and fueled, so I'm going to see if I can get
up early...lol
BARNSTMR: Ha! Early??? What 11:30?
Rcaprd: well, the fog kinda hangs in there...:)'
BARNSTMR: Best of luck and God's care.... Keep us informed.
Rcaprd: that's my stroy, and I'm sticking to it !!
Rcaprd: k, I will
BARNSTMR: where's your first nite destination?
BARNSTMR: Too bad about Mountain Piet, eh?
Rcaprd: I'm going to try to make it through to the south west of Indy
tomorrow
Rcaprd: then in to Creeve Core on Sunday
BARNSTMR: OK...well don't take too many chances
Rcaprd: there is a VFR corridor on the west side of St. Louis
Rcaprd: talk about chances...flying this area of the country there is
almost NO out, if the engine quits. It takes some getting used to, to accept that
fact about this area of the country.
Rcaprd: big change
BARNSTMR: can't have too much altitude
Rcaprd: gives me the Hiebie Jiebie's !!
BARNSTMR: when do you have to be back to work?
Rcaprd: a week from this sunday. midnight shift.
BARNSTMR: That will suck going back in after all this
Rcaprd: I figure 4 days to get back to Wichita
Rcaprd: yeah, for sure !!
BARNSTMR: or 6 days if you swing back thru TX
Rcaprd: I'm tempted...
Rcaprd: later this fall, I'm planning a cross country weekend trip to Mt.
Rushmore
BARNSTMR: that will be awesome
Rcaprd: yeah, I wonder what happened to John's engine...
BARNSTMR: hes saying he suspects fuel contamination
Rcaprd: it set a somber mood with me
BARNSTMR: I'll bet
BARNSTMR: But this is a good thing about continentals....they are reliable.
BARNSTMR: How many hours have you totaled since you left KS?
Rcaprd: my son read it, and is scares them both. Yeah, I let them know
about the reliable ol A65
BARNSTMR: what ages are your sons?
Rcaprd: I've been keeping lousy records on my hours. I'm going to estimate
it, by the hours meeter on the tach.
Rcaprd: 23 & 26
BARNSTMR: How old are you, Chuck?
Rcaprd: feb I'll be a half century old !!!
BARNSTMR: WOW...I would have guessed a lot younger
BARNSTMR: are you a grandpappy yet?
Rcaprd: I feel like a teenager !! No, I'm too young to be a grandfather !!
BARNSTMR: Well.... you are having the trip of a lifetime! I am glad it is
going well.
Rcaprd: they put my story in two of the local newspapers
BARNSTMR: cool.....are these going to be put online?
Rcaprd: I don't know.
BARNSTMR: Hows your solar panel working? Do you have it charging your
smoke battery?
Rcaprd: the solar panel doesn't keep up with the smoke pump. I had to
charge the battery last night. that was the first time I charged it. I've gon
through about 25 bottles of baby oil !!
Rcaprd: I think it would keep up with the gps, though.
Rcaprd: I can't get the plug for the handheld radio to work, so it is still
with the AA batteries.
BARNSTMR: Hey...I need to run....I have one last Question
Rcaprd: ?
BARNSTMR: would you mind if I post this dialogue to the list?
Rcaprd: yes, that would be great !!
Rcaprd: that would let them know.
BARNSTMR: cool...well...friend...
I wish you a great trip home and Godspeed!
Rcaprd: thanks !! yeeee Haaaaa WWW !!!!
BARNSTMR: :)
BARNSTMR: Bye
Rcaprd: cya
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward CG limit |
It was actually in the July issue. Thank you, Cory, for writing that up. Dale and
I have received lots of good feedback from that.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Cory Emberson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:35 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit
It's the June issue, which is a few issues old. It's the Builder's Report that's
bannered across the top of the cover.
It's a *beautiful* panel!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:32 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit
What issue of Kitplanes??? I'll need to look for that!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Data Plate Location |
That's where I'm going to put mine, Greg. The regs say something about
"between the cockpit and the tail of the aircraft". I don't like the idea
of gluing it to the fabric.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location
I need some info on acceptable locations for the aircraft dataplate.
FAR 45 indicates it needs to go on the exterior of the aircraft near the
tail surfaces yet I've seen many with the dataplate in the cockpit.
What has been an acceptable location for the inspectors?
My preference is to mount it on the glovebox door.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Data Plate Location |
Greg,
I put mine on the rear seat back, near the top where it steps back for the turtleback
and helmet box. The DAR looked at it without comment.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location
I need some info on acceptable locations for the aircraft dataplate.
FAR 45 indicates it needs to go on the exterior of the aircraft near the tail
surfaces yet I've seen many with the dataplate in the cockpit.
What has been an acceptable location for the inspectors?
My preference is to mount it on the glovebox door.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Data Plate Location |
the data plate only has to go on the outside if it is not otherwise visible from
the outside. The baggage door on an open cockpit is entirely proper.
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location
Greg,
I put mine on the rear seat back, near the top where it steps back for the turtleback
and helmet box. The DAR looked at it without comment.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location
I need some info on acceptable locations for the aircraft dataplate.
FAR 45 indicates it needs to go on the exterior of the aircraft near the tail
surfaces yet I've seen many with the dataplate in the cockpit.
What has been an acceptable location for the inspectors?
My preference is to mount it on the glovebox door.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cory Emberson" <bootless(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Forward CG limit |
Oh, you're right - July was interiors and exteriors. I saw "Panels" and
thought "Greg's Piet." Glad you and Dale received good reviews! :-)
best, Cory
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 5:29 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit
It was actually in the July issue. Thank you, Cory, for writing that up.
Dale and I have received lots of good feedback from that.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Cory Emberson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:35 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit
It's the June issue, which is a few issues old. It's the Builder's
Report that's bannered across the top of the cover.
It's a *beautiful* panel!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:32 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit
What issue of Kitplanes??? I'll need to look for that!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Data Plate Location |
The baggage compartment door appears to be a widely accepted location. That is
where it will go. If Mr. Inspector needs it elsewhere we'll deal with it at that
time.
Dick Navratil, do you have contact info for Mr. Norris? How much lead time does
he need to schedule an inspection?
Thanks, Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location
I need some info on acceptable locations for the aircraft dataplate.
FAR 45 indicates it needs to go on the exterior of the aircraft near the tail
surfaces yet I've seen many with the dataplate in the cockpit.
What has been an acceptable location for the inspectors?
My preference is to mount it on the glovebox door.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Chuck Gantzer is off again |
Pieters and interested,
had given 13 rides while in West Va. Had two newspaper stories published and
another is expected in tomorrow's paper. Said he has met many Pieters not on the
list which he will announce once at home. He did begin his flight home BEFORE
noon Terry. He admits that he is not a morning person. Plans another stop
today at Wright Bros Dayton so he can tour the museum there and if he has enough
time he will stretch daylight into some small sod field in Indiana or sleep in
his bag in Dayton. He will try to get to St Louis tomorrow. Jon I told him to
call you in event you want him on TV. He would make a better story than what
we're getting on all those news channels these days.
Corky, Chuck's Ass't Operations NCO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
<001f01c47c30$59f63a80$0301a8c0@Domain>
| Subject: | Re: Forward CG limit |
It is Stainless steel and has to have the serial #,Name of Builder,and Model.
Under the horiz stab there is an area where there is a ply gusset that re enforces
the tail post. I screwed it into that.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit
Dick,
I thought the instrument panel location for the data plate would not fly with
Mr. Norris.
What did your plate by the tail say on it? What is it attached to? What is
it made of?
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit
Hi Greg
On both of your questions;
15 inches is the most forward CG
For my inspection I put mine on the panel of the forward cockpit, citing the
rule on antique models. That didnt get by with the inspector. I had to mount
a second one on the left side under the horiz stab.
Would you like a copy of the Piet operations manual? The inspector seemed
to like it. I posted it to the Matronics pic file.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit
I know the aft most CG location is 20" aft of the wing LE. That info is on
the plans. What about the recommended maximum forward CG location? I don't see
it on the plans and can't recall any discussions about it.
I'm getting all of the paperwork together for the final inspection and this
bit of info is needed.
Thanks,
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
<001f01c47c30$59f63a80$0301a8c0@Domain> <001b01c47cc1$decfcff0$0600a8c0@laptop>
| Subject: | anyone live near South Bend, IN / Edwardsburg, MI ?? |
if so please contact me off list.
djv(at)imagedv.com
Thanks!
DJ V.
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chuck Gantzer is off again |
Do you have Chucks time of arrival at Creve Coeur airport and what is his cell
number? I live about 5 miles from Creve Coeur airport and would like to meet him
there.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 1:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer is off again
Pieters and interested,
given 13 rides while in West Va. Had two newspaper stories published and another
is expected in tomorrow's paper. Said he has met many Pieters not on the
list which he will announce once at home. He did begin his flight home BEFORE
noon Terry. He admits that he is not a morning person. Plans another stop today
at Wright Bros Dayton so he can tour the museum there and if he has enough time
he will stretch daylight into some small sod field in Indiana or sleep in
his bag in Dayton. He will try to get to St Louis tomorrow. Jon I told him to
call you in event you want him on TV. He would make a better story than what we're
getting on all those news channels these days.
Corky, Chuck's Ass't Operations NCO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Chuck Gantzer is off again |
Dennis,
Chuck has ceased to use his cell phone as it's too expensive. He bought
himself a calling card at Wallies and makes all his calls from pay phones. I can't
seem to find his cell number.
Chuck's operations shack`
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Morris <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com> |
Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
| Subject: | Solar Power and Turbine/Battery Charger schematic |
Hi.
Took the time to draw up the "voltage regulator" we mentioned for a
small wind turbine. The NPN transistor must be capable of enough power
dissipation not to blow it out (amps times volts). It basically serves
as a reverse current cutout, taking the turbine off line when its
voltage is not higher than the battery (although if you left it run, you
might add .0001 hp to your piet, and shorten the takeoff roll by a
fraction of a cm *grin*). I personally wouldn't bother with a zener
diode overprotector, but it wouldn't hurt. Set it to about 16 to 18
volts (and remember that it has to be able to handle the power from the
entire unit). You may have to decrease the values of the resistors -
they should be as high as possible with the unit still functioning. I
would definitely use a capacitor for noise suppression, as a little
hobby motor is bound to give a pretty rough output. Make it as big as
practical - perhaps 1000uF. Radio Shack transistors might not be big
enough - I haven't checked what they have on the high power end. I
would look at www.jameco.com for parts.
BTW, if I remember the figures correctly, the full sun has about 300
Watts per square meter of intensity after it filters through the air
(out in space, it is more than triple that). The best of solar cells
are around 15% efficient - and the cheap ones struggle to get 10% That
puts us down to 30 watts per square meter. Since you won't be doing a
square meter - your cell will be more like 10 cm by 25 cm (just guessing
- I saw Chuck's system) - that is 2.5% of a square meter - that is .75
watt. At 12 volts, that is .06 amps. A small generator could easily
produce a half amp - or 6 watts.
On the other hand, the solar cell charges whenever you are outside. The
turbine charges only on the go. The solar cell cost $20 (harborfreight
- that is where Chuck got his). The power schematic I have drawn will
probably cost you around $10 to build, depending on your scrounging
ability, and will be quite a bit of trouble to work all the bugs out of.
The long and short of it all is, do what you want to do. Ground
charging your battery is the most practical. After that, I would
probably tip my hat to the solar panel. But, a turbine would be very
cool - and work better on long flights.
-Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx |
John
Glad you're OK.
I know that you want to sell the plane, but I think that you can wait
some time, maybe with a little time and your excellent workmanship, the
Mountain Piet will be flying soon, and if you still want to sell it you
can get more money that if you sell it now=85
Javier Cruz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Chuck Gantzer is off again |
Dennis,
Found Chuck's cell phone address. 316 253 7832. There must not have been a
pay phone at the airport from where he called today as he used his cell phone.
If you will give me your phone I'll give it to Chuck when and if he calls
tomorrow.
Operations nco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chuck Gantzer is off again |
My number is (314) 776-1092. Did Chuck give any indication of when he thought he
would arrive? I would like to surprise him and be on the field waiting for him
to land. It would probably be sometime in the afternoon since he doesn't arise
early. Sounds like one of my kids. : )
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer is off again
Dennis,
Found Chuck's cell phone address. 316 253 7832. There must not have been a pay
phone at the airport from where he called today as he used his cell phone.
If you will give me your phone I'll give it to Chuck when and if he calls tomorrow.
Operations nco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Chuck Gantzer is off again |
Dennis,
Since meeting Chuck I've noticed he is reluctant to give an ETA . I think one
reason is he might find a place he likes and decide to stay longer and meet
more people. Chuck loves people.
Operations NCO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum Bagging |
That's exactly how we laminate wing spars for Skybolts and Pitts' at work - a high-stress
application if there ever was one. We use FPL-16A, and splice pieces
to create pieces for the layers as needed (I think it's a 1:20 slope on the
splice and you always stagger the splices, of course.) Laminated spar test samples
come out at least 25% stronger than a single piece of Sitka Spruce (some
samples make it to 50% stronger), with little to no weight gain, and when they
fail, they do so in stages where you have nearly the same strength after the
first layer breaks as the single-piece spar has. (The FAA says a laminated piece
is AS strong as a single piece, not stronger, so build to that standard - but
rest assured that a proper lamination job will generally add a significant
increase in strength.) Laminated pieces generally won't warp, either. We don't
recommend routed spars at all anymore, nor do we reduce the size of the spars
when we do laminations.
My Piet will probably have laminated spars. Not that I'll be pulling Gs like the
Skybolt and Pitts guys do!
-Mike
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:41 PM
Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Vacuum Bagging
I just gotta share this....I'm doing ash pieces for the straight axle landing
gear....Didn't have a 1 1/4" piece so I'm laminating two 3/4" pieces and will
plane that down to size.
Just realized I haven't done any vacuum bagging in over 10 years and now I remember
why I did in the first place! Perfect pressure all around....NO clamps!
Sometime in the near future I'll do a quick article with pictures explaining
the simple and cheap process.
Jim in Plano.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
Pietenpol List Brethern-
I didn't get to be at the big bash at Tick Hill and I only briefly saw Doc Mosher
at Brodhead (didn't notice the T-shirt) so I may be a bit off in my assessment
of the whole situation, but here's what I seem to be seeing as a trend.
I fear that there is a hidden agenda within the group perpetrated by a secret few!
Perhaps by exposing the plot, we can stay united and move forward once more
without fearing for our rights!
I speak of course, of the fledgling T.A.C.O. (Texas Air Camper Organization) group.
Merely by it's name there is a taint of snobbery and elitism because of the
"Pietenpol only" slant! Are they willing to accept other airplanes in their
organization? Should there be another group dubbed T.O.G.A. (Texas Organization
of Grega Aircampers)? Should the name be changed to accept multi-cultural builders?
Perhaps something along the lines of T.A.L.L. (Texas All Lightplane Lovers).
Come to think of it, why is it restricted to Texas??
Now, about that B.Y.O.P. (Build your Own Pietenpol) T-Shirt. Do you see a close
parallel here? Seems to me that it's exclusionary to all but the Pietenpol elitists.
Man, these guys are sneaky. I believe that even though there are two different
groups at work here, there is enough harmony in purpose that there must
certainly be a link.
Don't you all see the wedge that is beginning to divide us from each other? Are
you all blind to the calamity that this slippery slope represents?
Brothers, beware!!! If you are building or flying a GN-1 and want to call it a
Pietenpol, don't let these menaces steamroll over your rights. Shoot....... If
you want to build a Lancair and call it a Pietenpol, who are these snobs to stop
you. It's a free country and we can label things any way we want ( in the
words of a former U.S. President :it depends on what "is" is).
I think a good, level playing field may be realized in the future if we had an
organization with an acronym like B.R.A.T. (Build Right And Prosper) or Y.S.O.P.M.M.P.
(Your Sense Of Propriety Makes Me Puke) or something else that would
let us do whatever we want to do without being bound by tradition or history.
T.A.C.O. indeed!
Larry
ps. I'm still waiting for my I.D. and T-Shirt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Solar Power and Turbine/Battery Charger schematic |
There needs to be a current limiting device (such as a resistor)in between
the generator and the Zener diode, otherwise the zener will draw excessive
current above the zener voltage.
wrote :
>
>
> Hi.
>
> Took the time to draw up the "voltage regulator" we mentioned for a
> small wind turbine. The NPN transistor must be capable of enough power
> dissipation not to blow it out (amps times volts). It basically serves
> as a reverse current cutout, taking the turbine off line when its
> voltage is not higher than the battery (although if you left it run, you
> might add .0001 hp to your piet, and shorten the takeoff roll by a
> fraction of a cm *grin*). I personally wouldn't bother with a zener
> diode overprotector, but it wouldn't hurt. Set it to about 16 to 18
> volts (and remember that it has to be able to handle the power from the
> entire unit). You may have to decrease the values of the resistors -
> they should be as high as possible with the unit still functioning. I
> would definitely use a capacitor for noise suppression, as a little
> hobby motor is bound to give a pretty rough output. Make it as big as
> practical - perhaps 1000uF. Radio Shack transistors might not be big
> enough - I haven't checked what they have on the high power end. I
> would look at www.jameco.com for parts.
>
> BTW, if I remember the figures correctly, the full sun has about 300
> Watts per square meter of intensity after it filters through the air
> (out in space, it is more than triple that). The best of solar cells
> are around 15% efficient - and the cheap ones struggle to get 10% That
> puts us down to 30 watts per square meter. Since you won't be doing a
> square meter - your cell will be more like 10 cm by 25 cm (just guessing
> - I saw Chuck's system) - that is 2.5% of a square meter - that is .75
> watt. At 12 volts, that is .06 amps. A small generator could easily
> produce a half amp - or 6 watts.
>
> On the other hand, the solar cell charges whenever you are outside. The
> turbine charges only on the go. The solar cell cost $20 (harborfreight
> - that is where Chuck got his). The power schematic I have drawn will
> probably cost you around $10 to build, depending on your scrounging
> ability, and will be quite a bit of trouble to work all the bugs out of.
>
> The long and short of it all is, do what you want to do. Ground
> charging your battery is the most practical. After that, I would
> probably tip my hat to the solar panel. But, a turbine would be very
> cool - and work better on long flights.
>
> -Don
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hidden agenda |
ahhh.... but look closer at the aircamper drawing on the front and back. you
would see that it is GN-1. There is a small detail on the plane that gives
away it's identity.
:)
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: LAWRENCE WILLIAMS
To: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: hidden agenda
Pietenpol List Brethern-
I didn't get to be at the big bash at Tick Hill and I only briefly saw Doc Mosher
at Brodhead (didn't notice the T-shirt) so I may be a bit off in my assessment
of the whole situation, but here's what I seem to be seeing as a trend.
I fear that there is a hidden agenda within the group perpetrated by a secret
few! Perhaps by exposing the plot, we can stay united and move forward once more
without fearing for our rights!
I speak of course, of the fledgling T.A.C.O. (Texas Air Camper Organization)
group. Merely by it's name there is a taint of snobbery and elitism because of
the "Pietenpol only" slant! Are they willing to accept other airplanes in their
organization? Should there be another group dubbed T.O.G.A. (Texas Organization
of Grega Aircampers)? Should the name be changed to accept multi-cultural
builders? Perhaps something along the lines of T.A.L.L. (Texas All Lightplane
Lovers). Come to think of it, why is it restricted to Texas??
Now, about that B.Y.O.P. (Build your Own Pietenpol) T-Shirt. Do you see a close
parallel here? Seems to me that it's exclusionary to all but the Pietenpol
elitists. Man, these guys are sneaky. I believe that even though there are two
different groups at work here, there is enough harmony in purpose that there
must certainly be a link.
Don't you all see the wedge that is beginning to divide us from each other? Are
you all blind to the calamity that this slippery slope represents?
Brothers, beware!!! If you are building or flying a GN-1 and want to call it
a Pietenpol, don't let these menaces steamroll over your rights. Shoot.......
If you want to build a Lancair and call it a Pietenpol, who are these snobs to
stop you. It's a free country and we can label things any way we want ( in the
words of a former U.S. President :it depends on what "is" is).
I think a good, level playing field may be realized in the future if we had an
organization with an acronym like B.R.A.T. (Build Right And Prosper) or Y.S.O.P.M.M.P.
(Your Sense Of Propriety Makes Me Puke) or something else that would
let us do whatever we want to do without being bound by tradition or history.
T.A.C.O. indeed!
Larry
ps. I'm still waiting for my I.D. and T-Shirt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | The recent Kitplane article |
that was referenced recently (
with pictures of Gred and Dale's work....)
<http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID57>
If that link fails, the pictures are on mykitplane.com under "file library" for
Jim Markle....
JM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chuck Gantzer is off again |
Hi Corky:
any word from Chuck yet? He should be here in St.Louis,MO in an hour or two.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer is off again
Dennis,
Found Chuck's cell phone address. 316 253 7832. There must not have been a pay
phone at the airport from where he called today as he used his cell phone.
If you will give me your phone I'll give it to Chuck when and if he calls tomorrow.
Operations nco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Chuck Gantzer is off again |
Not a word today Dennis. Check with flight service he may have filed a flight
plan but I wouldn't count on his keeping to it if he sees a Wally World. Told
me he had used over 25 bottles of baby oil.
Gantzers operations nco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Chuck Gantzer's Tour America |
Pieters and interested,
Chuck checked into operations at 1712CDT. He overnighted at Franklin, Ind. He
says it was a perfect stop. Lots of jumpers, beer, women, beer and more
women. Watched movies with the women last night while they all drank more beer.
He
slept in his bag. Took all the women for rides today with top of the head
video cameras. Can't wait to see those shots. He adds that they were all beautiful
girls. He is trying for Sullivan County or Casey, Ill tonight. Says he will
get a hotel as he even admits he needs a scrub.
Dennis: I gave him your phone # and you should expect a call from him. Said
he will ask FAA for a flight into Creve Coeur w/o xponder. What a tour.
Tour operations shack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chuck Gantzer's Tour America |
If he would rather not do the flight w/o transponder thing, he can land at Columbia,
Ill. It is Sackmann Field on the sectional and is just southeast of St.Louis,
MO and just out of the Mode C veil. They have av gas there tomorrow, and
it is a long north/south grass strip. He can land at Sullivan Field which is
just north of old Valmeyer, Ill and about 5 miles or less south of Columbia, Ill.
if he would like and we would let him overnight his plane inside if it rains.
Neither has a tower and neither is busy enough to require a radio. Tell him
to avoid Scott AFB if he can because of the large military planes flying in
and out at all hours.
On the other hand, I am sure he can get into Creve Coeur if he wants since
it is a haven for antique planes and there is a museum there on the field which
he would enjoy touring. They also have av gas as I'm sure he knows already.
I've got to hand it to him, he has cajones the size of basketballs to try
what he is doing. Wish it was me.
Take care.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 5:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer's Tour America
Pieters and interested,
Chuck checked into operations at 1712CDT. He overnighted at Franklin, Ind. He
says it was a perfect stop. Lots of jumpers, beer, women, beer and more women.
Watched movies with the women last night while they all drank more beer. He
slept in his bag. Took all the women for rides today with top of the head video
cameras. Can't wait to see those shots. He adds that they were all beautiful
girls. He is trying for Sullivan County or Casey, Ill tonight. Says he will get
a hotel as he even admits he needs a scrub.
Dennis: I gave him your phone # and you should expect a call from him. Said he
will ask FAA for a flight into Creve Coeur w/o xponder. What a tour.
Tour operations shack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Slight Piet mods |
I thought I'd share some of the techniques and modifications that I made while
building my Pietenpol Air Camper so others following along would be able to benefit
from my pioneering efforts and not have to be bound by those absolutely
awful and incomplete plans that are certainly archaic and possibly dangerous if
followed. Nobody could possibly build an airplane using those old drawings.
The first step was to disregard entirely the model "A" Ford engine with the view-obstructing
radiator in favor of a real airplane powerplant. I'll bet that the
Piet's that show up at fly-ins with those old engines all arrive in trailers
and get put together at night when nobody is around. A man would have to be
a fool to fly behind one of those old boat anchors. I just happened to have a
160 H.P. Continental with a constant-speed prop available and I figured .... why
not?
Where I live there are wooden buildings that have rotted and since that was not
something I wanted my airplane to do, I switched the structure over to aluminum.
That easily solved the problem of what to seal the wood with! Also it was
such a hassle trying to find Spruce and so confusing trying to figure out which
woods might be used as a suitable substitute. You have Douglas Fir that is heavier
but stronger and might splinter in a crack-up. White Pine, Poplar and Cedar
that might or might not work, depending who you listen to. All sorts of conflicting
opinions about wood, and then there was the constant bickering about
which glue to use. Forget all that! I wanted to get my airplane in the air quickly
and not be bothered by all that old tradition stuff. If I wanted an heirloom,
I'd build a grandfather clock!
Next was figuring what to do about that gosh-awful parasol wing and all those old-fashioned
struts and cables. Can you imagine trusting your life to cables!
The obvious solution was to simply move the wing to the bottom of the airplane.
Look around folks, aviation has advanced somewhat since the 30's and practically
all the up-to-date airplanes are low-wings. It just made sense.
And now, about that fabric. I mean, really! How many fabric covered Cessna's or
airliners do you see? Aluminum is the only skin for my bird. No hassles with
rib-stitching, no wrinkles, no ironing or pinking. Poly-Fiber, acrylic, house
paint..Heck, I don't even have to paint it if I don't want to. That was a no-brainer!
OK, so I got this thing pretty far along and it occurred to me that it was going
to be a lot faster than I thought, so a canopy might be a good thing to have.
That way I wouldn't be bothered by all that wind blowing in my hair and sucking
things out of the cockpit. Oh yeah, and flaps to slow me down so I can still
fly into pastures like Bernie used to do. No problem adding those things.
As you can see, I did retain the tandem seating as well as the tailwheel (although
I do have supplemental drawings for a nose wheel that I'm considering) because
I didn't want to lose the "flavor" of the original Pietenpol Air Camper.
That about wraps up the subtle design changes I made. Now I'd like to get into
the philosophy of all this just to sort of justify what I have done.
You see, I never even met Mr. Pietenpol but I have a strong feeling of what he
must have been like, what he thought and where he was going. I have such respect
for the man that I never put a change into the design unless I thought he would
have done it too if he had been around and seriously thought about it. I'm
sure he would like what I've done with his old-timey flying machine. That's
why I'm going to start selling plans and call them Pietenpol's AirCamper plans.
Obviously, if I called it the Pietenpol Air Camper, it would be plagiarism and
might confuse people, so I'll stick that little "s" on the end to avoid any
possible doubt.
That about sums it up. I had a ball building it and imagining how proud Bernie
would feel knowing that his airplane was finally updated. I hope this inspires
others to build from original plans and only change the things that the designer
would have changed if he had the intelligence and insight available to us
today. That way you can proudly tell the world that, "It's a Pietenpol Air Camper,
I built it from the plans".
The enclosed picture shows my modified, plans-built, original Pietenpol Air Camper
on it's maiden flight last spring. Although you can't see it in the picture,
I had "Bernie's Dream" gold leafed on the nose in honor of the designer.
(Insert a picture of an RV-4 or RV-8 here)
Happy building and flying-
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Chuck Gantzer's Tour America |
Dennis,
I'll pass on your message if he calls but I feel you will hear from him
before I. He may have decided to stay another night in Franklin as he told me he
really enjoyed the after dark activities. He didn't elaborate.
Tour operations
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Slight Piet mods |
Larry,
I know your letter was meant in jest and a bit of humor for our list. If NOT
You have proven finally that there are more horses asses than horses. Let me
add, if all of us tried to pursue the same woman this world would be in a
worse condition. Speaking of women, please post a picture of your wife, if you
have one, on the pietenpol matronics picture list. We could judge your taste.
Corky in La enjoying building his Piet from those antiquated plans
anticipating it coming apart while making his first Immelman while his bride watches
with pride.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Chuck Gantzer's Tour America |
Chuck has an engine driven electrical system that runs something other than the
ignition?
If not, then he don't need no transponderonder....\
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Engelkenjohn
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer's Tour America
If he would rather not do the flight w/o transponder thing, he can land at Columbia,
Ill. It is Sackmann Field on the sectional and is just southeast of St.Louis,
MO and just out of the Mode C veil. They have av gas there tomorrow, and
it is a long north/south grass strip. He can land at Sullivan Field which is
just north of old Valmeyer, Ill and about 5 miles or less south of Columbia,
Ill. if he would like and we would let him overnight his plane inside if it rains.
Neither has a tower and neither is busy enough to require a radio. Tell
him to avoid Scott AFB if he can because of the large military planes flying in
and out at all hours.
On the other hand, I am sure he can get into Creve Coeur if he wants since
it is a haven for antique planes and there is a museum there on the field which
he would enjoy touring. They also have av gas as I'm sure he knows already.
I've got to hand it to him, he has cajones the size of basketballs to try
what he is doing. Wish it was me.
Take care.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 5:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer's Tour America
Pieters and interested,
Chuck checked into operations at 1712CDT. He overnighted at Franklin, Ind.
He says it was a perfect stop. Lots of jumpers, beer, women, beer and more women.
Watched movies with the women last night while they all drank more beer. He
slept in his bag. Took all the women for rides today with top of the head video
cameras. Can't wait to see those shots. He adds that they were all beautiful
girls. He is trying for Sullivan County or Casey, Ill tonight. Says he will
get a hotel as he even admits he needs a scrub.
Dennis: I gave him your phone # and you should expect a call from him. Said
he will ask FAA for a flight into Creve Coeur w/o xponder. What a tour.
Tour operations shack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Sport Pilots Liscence |
I dont know about the rest of you, I know Corkey was anxious to get the
sport pilot program through, but re my medical it does absolutely nothing for
me.
Just another door slamed in my face - though ( like a carrot ) they're
talking about some future FAA resolution of denied medicals. Henry Williams -
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: SHIRT FIRST, ASK QUESTIONS LATER |
Phil:
Sorry for the delay. My mom passed away day before yesterday and I'm busy
getting things ready for an out of town funeral. In my state of disorganization
at the moment, it would help my over-loaded brain if you mail your check with a
note about both shirts and the size. I know I'll have the large size
available for you when I get home.
Do you know where Kennewick, WA is? My mom's sister is traveling from
Kennewick to Fort Stockton, TX for the funeral. It seems like it is always a pain
getting on a commercial flight from Kennewick to this part of the world.
Sterling Brooks
Knot-2-Shabby Airport
9725 SH 153
WInters, TX 79567
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net> |
| Subject: | Re: hidden agenda |
Dear List members,
The spirit among Pietenpol builders is great as is the "comrade-in-arms"
feeling one gets from the group. But there are other "low and slow"
aircraft that have their groups as well. i.e. Flybaby, GN-1, Volksplanes
and others. Also IMHO part of this expresses an underlying dissatisfaction
with the big (you know who) experimental aviation group that has all but
abandoned it's humble roots. Anyway the newest group I have seen is the
"Poverty Pilots Association" for those that can't afford an airplane but
build one anyway. The dues have recently been increased from $0.00 to
$00.00 It started with the VP group but they have now widened it to include
any low and slow type builder that fits the poverty category. The do have
there own website up and it is worth a chuckle http://www.vppa.biz/ It is
kind of slow to load so you will have to wait a bit to see it. Anyway
wouldn't it be great to have a group for builders that are doing their best
to build some type all inclusive grass roots group for the plans builder??
Maybe something that fits the new Sport Plane Category that is not a kit?
If you want to see how big that "other group" is here is a satellite photo
you of their flyin. It is big, over 43 meg so it takes a while to download
but it is amazing.
http://www.airventure.org/2004/gallery/images/073104_satellite.jpg
Kind regards,
Bob B.
Pietenpol List Brethern-
I didn't get to be at the big bash at Tick Hill and I only briefly saw Doc
Mosher at Brodhead (didn't notice the T-shirt) so I may be a bit off in my
assessment of the whole situation, but here's what I seem to be seeing as a
trend.
I fear that there is a hidden agenda within the group perpetrated by a
secret few! Perhaps by exposing the plot, we can stay united and move
forward once more without fearing for our rights!
I speak of course, of the fledgling T.A.C.O. (Texas Air Camper Organization)
group. Merely by it's name there is a taint of snobbery and elitism because
of the "Pietenpol only" slant! Are they willing to accept other airplanes in
their organization? Should there be another group dubbed T.O.G.A. (Texas
Organization of Grega Aircampers)? Should the name be changed to accept
multi-cultural builders? Perhaps something along the lines of T.A.L.L.
(Texas All Lightplane Lovers). Come to think of it, why is it restricted to
Texas??
Now, about that B.Y.O.P. (Build your Own Pietenpol) T-Shirt. Do you see a
close parallel here? Seems to me that it's exclusionary to all but the
Pietenpol elitists. Man, these guys are sneaky. I believe that even though
there are two different groups at work here, there is enough harmony in
purpose that there must certainly be a link.
Don't you all see the wedge that is beginning to divide us from each other?
Are you all blind to the calamity that this slippery slope represents?
Brothers, beware!!! If you are building or flying a GN-1 and want to call it
a Pietenpol, don't let these menaces steamroll over your rights.
Shoot....... If you want to build a Lancair and call it a Pietenpol, who are
these snobs to stop you. It's a free country and we can label things any way
we want ( in the words of a former U.S. President :it depends on what "is"
is).
I think a good, level playing field may be realized in the future if we had
an organization with an acronym like B.R.A.T. (Build Right And Prosper) or
Y.S.O.P.M.M.P. (Your Sense Of Propriety Makes Me Puke) or something else
that would let us do whatever we want to do without being bound by tradition
or history.
T.A.C.O. indeed!
Larry
ps. I'm still waiting for my I.D. and T-Shirt
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | More Brodhead pix |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
Hi Folks,
Well, they didn't go in without a hitch but there are some more Brodhead
2004 pix on photoshare. Unfortunately, they are listed under
"Kolb-List, Ultralight-List" and a couple of captions are concatinated
on themselves. I also didn't know that the pictures are listed in
alphabetical order of their file names, rather than in the order they
were posted. I took many more this year and last of specific Piets, but
I will be putting those on my own website in a Piet gallery, which I
will list when it's ready.
Nothing like doing a couple steep turns in a Piet, getting the feel of
the rudder and the view of the farmland below, to increase a builder's
motivation!
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/mhodgson@bu.edu.08.07.2004/
Mark Hodgson
P.S. For those who weren't there, the "Corvair" engine reference regards
William Wynne's Zenvair, after it took off to Oshkosh--150
not-too-shabby mph.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Howdy, folks;
As I mentioned in an earlier post, the brass data plates that I have for
sale are NOT intended to provide compliance with the FARs... they are
strictly for looks and are to be installed in a conspicuous location such as
the front cockpit.
There is a nice photo of a completed, punched data plate on the AV/Grafix
website, at http://www.avgrafix.com/images/peitplac.jpg (and yes, Dennis
misspelled "Piet" there). Complete info on ordering and availability is on
my website, at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/dataplate.html
Still only $10 and I have plenty available. Email me directly... not to the
list.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Chuck Gantzer Tour America |
Pieters and interested,
got away from all those girls at 1730 only after he promised to return next
year. A 1 hr flight to Sullivan was all he had time for yesterday. He said he
most enjoyed assisting the boarding and unboarding of his female passengers. He
particularly noticed they all had nice shapely legs amongst other things. He
sure liked Franklin.
The FBO at Sullivan furnished him a car where he stayed in a hotel. Says he
scrubbed 3 days crude and slept like a baby. He was planning to leave by 1300
until I asked if he had a good supply of baby oil so he could really do a good
job of smoking St Louis. He then remembered he had to go to Walley's for a
supply so who knows when he will leave on his leg to Litchfield, Ill where he
plans to call Dennis and FAA permission to get to Creve Ceour where he plans to
overnight. They will probably alert the Mo Air Guard when he begins his smoke
runs over St Louis. Watch your evening news, Chuck may be featured
Chuck's operations nco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Dallas" <bec176(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hidden agenda |
Carefull.......I brought up my dislikes about this group a couple of years
back and was extemely chastized by some who see no wrong with the Expensive
Aircraft Association.
Jim Dallas
Pietenpol in Progess
Hatz in Progress
>From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hidden agenda
>Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:00:20 -0500
>
>
>Dear List members,
>The spirit among Pietenpol builders is great as is the "comrade-in-arms"
>feeling one gets from the group. But there are other "low and slow"
>aircraft that have their groups as well. i.e. Flybaby, GN-1, Volksplanes
>and others. Also IMHO part of this expresses an underlying dissatisfaction
>with the big (you know who) experimental aviation group that has all but
>abandoned it's humble roots.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Phillips" <pphillips(at)kalama.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SHIRT FIRST, ASK QUESTIONS LATER |
I'm sorry to hear of a tough loss in, your family. I will get a check in the mail
to you tomorrow. Kennewick is across the mountains from me, about a four
hour drive. My daughters have probably played over a hundred softball games in
the Kennewick area.
Phil Phillips
----- Original Message -----
From: KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 6:22 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SHIRT FIRST, ASK QUESTIONS LATER
Phil:
Sorry for the delay. My mom passed away day before yesterday and I'm busy getting
things ready for an out of town funeral. In my state of disorganization at
the moment, it would help my over-loaded brain if you mail your check with a
note about both shirts and the size. I know I'll have the large size available
for you when I get home.
Do you know where Kennewick, WA is? My mom's sister is traveling from Kennewick
to Fort Stockton, TX for the funeral. It seems like it is always a pain getting
on a commercial flight from Kennewick to this part of the world.
Sterling Brooks
Knot-2-Shabby Airport
9725 SH 153
WInters, TX 79567
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <lebrandt(at)charter.net> |
I guess I don't see the hidden agenda.
I just returned from nine days in Oshkosh and could have stayed a lot more.
I think EAA is trying to cover most of the bases. What about Sport Pilot? Just
because you may have already lost your medical and can't get a SP license without
jumping through a lot of medical hoops is probably disappointing to some especially
those of you who are in that very situation. But that change was made
July 29, 2004 - August 09, 2004
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dy