Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dz
August 09, 2004 - August 24, 2004
at the FAA. Can you imagine flying with someone who may have another medical
emergency at any time. I don't want to be with them or near their flight path.
Let's prove that we are worthy of the license rather than all being grand fathered
in with a valid drivers license. My mother has one too but I sure as heck
don't want to ride with her.
You have to agree that Sport Pilot will make flying a lot easier for the masses.
Those with fat ultralights or a light Cub, Champ, or T-craft or a homebuilt
that fits the criteria.
If you think EAA has missed the boat for grass roots aviation in their publications,
then you are reading the wrong one. Take a look at Sport Pilot that used
to be Experimenter magazine. There is gobs of great grassroots flying in there.
Just my 2 cents
Leroy B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Light Sport Aircraft |
Very interesting list of airplanes that supposedly comply with the new rule.
Interesting in that the manufacturer (or someone) has to demonstrate that
the aircraft complies with the rule requirements, not just states it in a
fact sheet or sales flyer.
I wonder if the Pietenpol family applied for approval and demonstrated
compliance somehow?
And how did St. Croix make it? I have heard that St. Croix's "Air Camper"
is merely a copy of the Flying & Glider Manual plans or something like that.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SHIRT FIRST, ASK QUESTIONS LATER |
Sterling...When you posted the other day that you were making plans for a
funeral, I guessed it was your mom. I know you're saddeded to see her go
and I know she struggled with brain cancer and the associated treatments
for a long time. It doesn't seem to matter that you expected the eventual
outcome, it's still a rough experience. How's your dad coping with this?
I'm sure none of us can really appreciate his pain. Hang in there. Your
friends are thinking about you...Carl Vought
>
>
>
> Phil:
>
> Sorry for the delay. My mom passed away day before yesterday and I'm busy
> getting things ready for an out of town funeral. In my state of
disorganization
> at the moment, it would help my over-loaded brain if you mail your check
with a
> note about both shirts and the size. I know I'll have the large size
> available for you when I get home.
>
> Do you know where Kennewick, WA is? My mom's sister is traveling from
> Kennewick to Fort Stockton, TX for the funeral. It seems like it is
always a pain
> getting on a commercial flight from Kennewick to this part of the world.
>
> Sterling Brooks
> Knot-2-Shabby Airport
> 9725 SH 153
> WInters, TX 79567
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
"Gary Steadman" <gary.steadman@flitzer-aero.com>
| Subject: | Re: Light Sport Aircraft |
Oscar,
All that compliance stuff is for the manufactured Light Sport Aircraft
(LSA). It permutates the final rule to such an extent that one wonders if
the FAA is fixated on the manufacturing end of it and forgot about the rest.
LSA won't affect us homebuilders at all but will allow certain folks to fly
certain homebuilts that they would not otherwise have been able to.
There are three types of LSAs:
1) Regular airplanes like the Cub and the Taylorcraft that meet the
definition of the LSA but need to be maintained as they have in the past
with an annual inspection done by an IA, etc. You coule fly these with a
Sport Pilot ticket with an endorsement for the category and class (like
land airplane with tailwheel). It is easy to figure out which ships meet
the LSA requirements by looking a the type certificate data sheet for the
make and model in question.
2) Yet to be MANUFACTURED LSAs that will be built under the yet to be
adopted consensus standards. With these, a special type of mechanic and
inspector rating will be required for maintaining and doing the annual
inspections on these. Sounds awful but it might be a five day class and you
have an A & P for LSAs and meet some other requiresments and more school
time and you have an IA for LSAs. The manufacturer of these aircraft will
verify and mandate compliance through procedures and limitations in the yet
to be adopted consensus standards that the aircraft will meet the LSA
definition.
3) Homebuilts that are certified under the Experimental Amateur Built
existing regulations that meet the performance limitations as stipulated in
the LSA final rule as to speed, power, etc. will qualify as an LSA and will
be able to be flown by Sport Pilots during the day, etc. that have the
appropriate category and class endorsements in their logbooks. As for
exceeding the performance maximum limits for LSAs, WHO IS TO KNOW THE TRUE
PERFORMANCE IF YOU ARE THE ONLY GUY TO FLY THE SHIP? You can write stuff
into your limitations during your flyoff period and then routinely go a
little or a lot beyond them. A little static leak in the airspeed hookup
will take care of the top cruise speed maximum. Besides, you can just put a
placard in that says MAX CRUISE SPEED is XXX KNOTS with whatever the number
is. That does not mean you will go beyond it when you are flying. You
won't be able to fudge weight or number of seats but I see lots of room in
the other areas, hee, hee. Just make sure you use the max limits as allowed
in the LSA final rule when you do the paperwork for your ship.
Maintenance of the Experimental Amateur Built will continue to be done as it
always has with the builder eligible for the Repairman's Certificate which
would thne allow him e to do the Annual Condition Inspection, etc.
I have hacked half way through the final rule's 452 pages. Thanks for
reminding me to read the rest.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Light Sport Aircraft
>
> Very interesting list of airplanes that supposedly comply with the new
rule.
> Interesting in that the manufacturer (or someone) has to demonstrate
that
> the aircraft complies with the rule requirements, not just states it in a
> fact sheet or sales flyer.
>
> I wonder if the Pietenpol family applied for approval and demonstrated
> compliance somehow?
>
> And how did St. Croix make it? I have heard that St. Croix's "Air Camper"
> is merely a copy of the Flying & Glider Manual plans or something like
that.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SHIRT FIRST, ASK QUESTIONS LATER |
Yep. A man only has one Mama.
We feel for you, Sterling.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SHIRT FIRST, ASK QUESTIONS LATER
>
> Sterling...When you posted the other day that you were making plans for a
> funeral, I guessed it was your mom. I know you're saddeded to see her go
> and I know she struggled with brain cancer and the associated treatments
> for a long time. It doesn't seem to matter that you expected the eventual
> outcome, it's still a rough experience. How's your dad coping with this?
> I'm sure none of us can really appreciate his pain. Hang in there. Your
> friends are thinking about you...Carl Vought
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Phil:
> >
> > Sorry for the delay. My mom passed away day before yesterday and I'm
busy
> > getting things ready for an out of town funeral. In my state of
> disorganization
> > at the moment, it would help my over-loaded brain if you mail your check
> with a
> > note about both shirts and the size. I know I'll have the large size
> > available for you when I get home.
> >
> > Do you know where Kennewick, WA is? My mom's sister is traveling from
> > Kennewick to Fort Stockton, TX for the funeral. It seems like it is
> always a pain
> > getting on a commercial flight from Kennewick to this part of the world.
> >
> > Sterling Brooks
> > Knot-2-Shabby Airport
> > 9725 SH 153
> > WInters, TX 79567
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Light Sport Aircraft |
No...St. Croix's plans are a direct negative copy ( white on a black
background) of the Pietenpol family's plans...I bought my first set before I
knew any better from him from an ad in Kit Planes magazine in Jan, 2000 (
where they lists all the hundreds of plans available each January) Before I
even knew what a Pietenpol was...It just looked like a really neat plane to
me....It's funny but out of all those hundreds of plans I sent away for info
packets on the GN-1 and the Pietenpol, I have since bought an "official" set
from the Pietenpol's to build from...There were a few things in St. Croix's
plans that weren't updated like the gussets on the rudder so they must have
been copied from a really old set...Still doesn't seem right to me....He
also sells plans for the Ariel...
Ed G.
>From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Light Sport Aircraft
>Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:23:31 -0500
>
>
>
>Very interesting list of airplanes that supposedly comply with the new
>rule. Interesting in that the manufacturer (or someone) has to demonstrate
>that the aircraft complies with the rule requirements, not just states it
>in a fact sheet or sales flyer.
>
>I wonder if the Pietenpol family applied for approval and demonstrated
>compliance somehow?
>
>And how did St. Croix make it? I have heard that St. Croix's "Air Camper"
>is merely a copy of the Flying & Glider Manual plans or something like
>that.
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | pre-installation fuel tank rinsing |
Hello,
Anybody have any suggestions for a good liquid for a final rinse before I install
my fuel tank?
I want to get rid of any possible filings, debris, coatings etc while I can easily
do this. It is an aluminum tank. Would distilled water be good?
Am shying away from gas, just because it will be rather unpleasant repeatedly rinsing
and emptying that thing with gas.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hidden Agenda |
Leroy B,
Just having stayed 9 days at Oshkosh it's a miracle you have 2 cents left to
give us.
As a greatgrandfather many times with a valid driver's license I would deem
it a pleasure to ride with your mother.
If you can't see the hidden beauro agenda then no explanation is possible.
YKW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: pre-installation fuel tank rinsing |
Did you pressure test the tank? Best to do with a modified gas cap with a shrader
valve from the local hardware store (looks like a tire stem but has threads
on the other end. They use them on water wells. You just need a few PSI and
a soap solution...
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 5:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: pre-installation fuel tank rinsing
Hello,
Anybody have any suggestions for a good liquid for a final rinse before I install
my fuel tank?
I want to get rid of any possible filings, debris, coatings etc while I can easily
do this. It is an aluminum tank. Would distilled water be good?
Am shying away from gas, just because it will be rather unpleasant repeatedly
rinsing and emptying that thing with gas.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hidden Agenda |
Don't forget about my medicalless buddy who drove 60 kids on a school bus everyday
with nine bypasses on his heart yet could not fly a 1200 lb airplane by himself....
I say if a medical has been denied in the past then the guy can still fly but with
no passengers. He would be LESS of a risk then than he would if he drove
a car on public highways...
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hidden Agenda
Leroy B,
Just having stayed 9 days at Oshkosh it's a miracle you have 2 cents left to
give us.
As a greatgrandfather many times with a valid driver's license I would deem it
a pleasure to ride with your mother.
If you can't see the hidden beauro agenda then no explanation is possible.
YKW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Light Sport Aircraft |
St. Croix is Chad Wille and he is in bed with the Antique Airplance
Association. I don't care much for the ripoff either...
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Light Sport Aircraft
>
>
> No...St. Croix's plans are a direct negative copy ( white on a black
> background) of the Pietenpol family's plans...I bought my first set before
I
> knew any better from him from an ad in Kit Planes magazine in Jan, 2000 (
> where they lists all the hundreds of plans available each January) Before
I
> even knew what a Pietenpol was...It just looked like a really neat plane
to
> me....It's funny but out of all those hundreds of plans I sent away for
info
> packets on the GN-1 and the Pietenpol, I have since bought an "official"
set
> from the Pietenpol's to build from...There were a few things in St.
Croix's
> plans that weren't updated like the gussets on the rudder so they must
have
> been copied from a really old set...Still doesn't seem right to me....He
> also sells plans for the Ariel...
> Ed G.
>
>
> >From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Light Sport Aircraft
> >Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:23:31 -0500
> >
> >
> >
> >Very interesting list of airplanes that supposedly comply with the new
> >rule. Interesting in that the manufacturer (or someone) has to
demonstrate
> >that the aircraft complies with the rule requirements, not just states it
> >in a fact sheet or sales flyer.
> >
> >I wonder if the Pietenpol family applied for approval and demonstrated
> >compliance somehow?
> >
> >And how did St. Croix make it? I have heard that St. Croix's "Air
Camper"
> >is merely a copy of the Flying & Glider Manual plans or something like
> >that.
> >
> >Oscar Zuniga
> >San Antonio, TX
> >mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
Hey All,
I just thought I'd let you know where I'm at. Dennis E. met me out at Creeve Coeur
Airport this evening, and invited me back to his home for the evening, and
I just couldn't refuse !! I'm planning on going through their museum tomorrow,
and maybe go to a couple of other attractions around St. Louis, then continue
on to the west, tomorrow late afternoon. I added up all the mileage (but
not the hours), and I've covered more than 2500 miles...so far. It has been a
fantastic adventure !! It's really great that Corky has taken on the responsibility
of being my operations nco !! Thanks Corky !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Americana is alive and well !!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hidden Agenda |
The really Ironic or moronic part of this is he could be a 20,000 hour pilot, lose
his medical and never be able to fly again. Yet if he had never had a medical
he could go get a little dual, pass a check ride and be set to go.
Jim Dallas
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hidden Agenda
Don't forget about my medicalless buddy who drove 60 kids on a school bus everyday
with nine bypasses on his heart yet could not fly a 1200 lb airplane by
himself....
I say if a medical has been denied in the past then the guy can still fly but
with no passengers. He would be LESS of a risk then than he would if he drove
a car on public highways...
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hidden Agenda
Leroy B,
Just having stayed 9 days at Oshkosh it's a miracle you have 2 cents left to
give us.
As a greatgrandfather many times with a valid driver's license I would deem
it a pleasure to ride with your mother.
If you can't see the hidden beauro agenda then no explanation is possible.
YKW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hidden Agenda |
Pieters
On the whole Sport Pilot Issue, look at it this way.
"He who asks questions---gets answers"
ykw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Creeve Coeur |
Chuck,
Make sure you fly through the Arch when you leave St. Louis.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Engelkenjohn
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Creeve Coeur
Hey All,
I just thought I'd let you know where I'm at. Dennis E. met me out at Creeve
Coeur Airport this evening, and invited me back to his home for the evening,
and I just couldn't refuse !! I'm planning on going through their museum tomorrow,
and maybe go to a couple of other attractions around St. Louis, then continue
on to the west, tomorrow late afternoon. I added up all the mileage (but
not the hours), and I've covered more than 2500 miles...so far. It has been
a fantastic adventure !! It's really great that Corky has taken on the responsibility
of being my operations nco !! Thanks Corky !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Americana is alive and well !!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
For those needing info about small Continental or small Lycoming engines, check
out
www.mooneymite.com
You can contact Dave Rutherford through there and he can send some of the out of
print manuals on CD.
Terry B.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hidden Agenda |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
A 2000 pound car traveling 80 mph has about the same kinetic energy as a
1300 pound LSA with a groundspeed of 100 mph, so they can cause about
the same physical damage. But the guy driving the 5000 pound church van
with 9 passengers on a highway in a developed area can do way more
damage in human terms with his legal driver's license than the LSA pilot
with one passenger auguring into a random corn field. So why restrict
the LSA pilot more? Because they're the FAA, and they're not happy
until you're not happy? Discriminating among licensed drivers for sport
pilot privileges, using information collected for a different purpose
(private pilot license or even more), doesn't make any sense.
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hidden Agenda |
Mark,
I also told the feds in one of my many coments that they are discriminating
against people who have chosen NOT to have a drivers license. This is
common for many people in NYC where owing and driving a car is not an option
but yet taking a train ride to the countryside and a cab to the small
airport is.
Not to mention that I might not want my kid to drive when he is 16 but yet I
might want him to fly.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hidden Agenda
>
> A 2000 pound car traveling 80 mph has about the same kinetic energy as a
> 1300 pound LSA with a groundspeed of 100 mph, so they can cause about
> the same physical damage. But the guy driving the 5000 pound church van
> with 9 passengers on a highway in a developed area can do way more
> damage in human terms with his legal driver's license than the LSA pilot
> with one passenger auguring into a random corn field. So why restrict
> the LSA pilot more? Because they're the FAA, and they're not happy
> until you're not happy? Discriminating among licensed drivers for sport
> pilot privileges, using information collected for a different purpose
> (private pilot license or even more), doesn't make any sense.
>
> Mark Hodgson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Chuck Gantzer Tour America |
Pieters and interested,
Chuck called at 1545 from Creve Couer and was about to take off for his
afternoon leg toward home. Jefferson City is his first planned stop and he hopes
to
get farther if the weather and winds will allow. Has rains to the south of
his flight line and will be bucking head winds. I asked if he would try for the
last leg to Wichita tomorrow. He answered by saying he would attempt an early
start tomorrow at 1100. Hope he has plenty of baby oil for that Wichita
entrance.
Tour America operations shack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: pre-installation fuel tank rinsing |
Here, we test our homebuilt thin aluminum gas tanks like this:
Seal the inlet with a piece of inner tube and a hose clamp. In the
outlet, with a "T" we put a good 1/4" valve in one side and a condom
in the other. inflate the condom and close the valve tight. this is
enough air preassure to positive test the tank.
If the condom deflates overnight then look for a micro size hole with
soap. to much pressure will deform the aluminum tank, to little will
not show tiny holes, hard to find, from the welding.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Christian Bobka wrote:
> Did you pressure test the tank? Best to do with a modified gas cap
> with a shrader valve from the local hardware store (looks like a tire
> stem but has threads on the other end. They use them on water wells.
> You just need a few PSI and a soap solution...
>
> Chris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Douwe Blumberg
> To: pietenpolgroup
> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 5:38 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: pre-installation fuel tank rinsing
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Anybody have any suggestions for a good liquid for a final rinse
> before I install my fuel tank?
>
> I want to get rid of any possible filings, debris, coatings etc
> while I can easily do this. It is an aluminum tank. Would distilled
> water be good?
>
> Am shying away from gas, just because it will be rather unpleasant
> repeatedly rinsing and emptying that thing with gas.
>
> Douwe
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andimaxd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Mike Cuy and the FAA/EAA official Sport Pilot |
Mike:
You failed to tell us that you were in every other frame of the official EAA
Sport Pilot license release. Very Cool !!
I went to the Chapter 34 meeting in Arlington, TX. this evening and there
were at least a dozen shots, if not more, of you and your plane. A couple of
people thought they knew it was a Piet and one older gentleman in front of me
said, "They sure are proud of that one!" Good job! That will really get us
some exposure.
I kept thinking there was going to be a shot of Chuck Gantzer with his smoke
on while releasing some toilet paper, just any time during the presentation.
Maybe he'll make the revision, next month.
Max Davis
Arlington, TX.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Light Sport Aircraft |
Yeah, these guys called us up at work asking about plans for new designs
that we haven't even had a chance to test-build ourselves yet! They can wait
and buy a set later, like everyone else. Sheesh.
Mike
> from the Pietenpol's to build from...There were a few things in St.
Croix's
> plans that weren't updated like the gussets on the rudder so they must
have
> been copied from a really old set...Still doesn't seem right to me....He
> also sells plans for the Ariel...
> Ed G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.net" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | lining up tail section hinges |
I've made a router jig for routing the tail section hinges flush to the outside
of the beams.. I've read some mention previously of lining up the hinges (using
Vi Kapler hinges). Is this difficult to do? In my jig I've allowed for about
3/32" of play all the way around so that slight adjustments can be made.
I read where people were having trouble lining up the holes for the hinges.
When I hold two pieces together, the holes seem to match up fine.
Maybe I'm missing something. Any comments?
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary W Meadows <garymead(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | lining up tail section hinges |
Tim,
What I did for lining up the hinges is to go to Home Depot of Lowe's and buy a
piece of 3/32" diameter (as I remember) steel rod, to thread through all three
hinges and then use that to line them all up to get the axis of all three hinges
perfectly inline. Worked pretty good!
Good Luck!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: lining up tail section hinges |
Gary,
Don't forget to call me one of these days.
612 207 3762
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary W Meadows
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: lining up tail section hinges
Tim,
What I did for lining up the hinges is to go to Home Depot of Lowe's and buy
a piece of 3/32" diameter (as I remember) steel rod, to thread through all three
hinges and then use that to line them all up to get the axis of all three
hinges perfectly inline. Worked pretty good!
Good Luck!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Chuck Gantzer' Tour America |
Pieters and interested,
Chuck called at 1126 this morning while we were out at the grocery store. We
didn't discover the call until after 8 tonight. I couldn't get all the
locations but whereever he was he was before departing for Lake of the Ozarks In
Missouri. Said he wanted to see some sites at low altitude. Had checked out all
the towers and high trees and planned to fly low and slow. Would go next to
Eureka Springs. That's back in Arkansas but I guess he knows where he's going.
That's as specific as I can be. He still doesn't seem to be in any hurry. Why
should he be, he's having fun.
Chuck's Operations shack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CapnAvid(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Gross Weight and Serial Number |
I have purchased a Pietenpol Aircamper project that is up to the covering
stage. Regarding the soon to be legal Light Sport class aircraft, what is the
recognized gross wt of a 3 pc wing Piet? Also, where do serial numbers come
from for a Piet?
Rogers (capnavid) Theetge
Georgia.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gross Weight and Serial Number |
The gross weight and the serial number is created by you. I made my gross at
1150# cause that seemed to be a popularly accepted weight.
My serial # is #737678 after my three kid's birth years
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: CapnAvid(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 3:04 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gross Weight and Serial Number
I have purchased a Pietenpol Aircamper project that is up to the covering stage.
Regarding the soon to be legal Light Sport class aircraft, what is the recognized
gross wt of a 3 pc wing Piet? Also, where do serial numbers come from
for a Piet?
Rogers (capnavid) Theetge
Georgia.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gross Weight and Serial Number |
I made my gross at 1150# cause that seemed to be a popularly accepted weight and
I have regretted it ever since...
Walt forgot to add this part.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gross Weight and Serial Number
The gross weight and the serial number is created by you. I made my gross at
1150# cause that seemed to be a popularly accepted weight.
My serial # is #737678 after my three kid's birth years
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: CapnAvid(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 3:04 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gross Weight and Serial Number
I have purchased a Pietenpol Aircamper project that is up to the covering stage.
Regarding the soon to be legal Light Sport class aircraft, what is the recognized
gross wt of a 3 pc wing Piet? Also, where do serial numbers come from
for a Piet?
Rogers (capnavid) Theetge
Georgia.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
<001101c480a5$51b397e0$0301a8c0@Domain>
| Subject: | Re: Gross Weight and Serial Number |
Naw, no regrets. This way if "Big Lou Albano" stops in for a ride, we're still
legal.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gross Weight and Serial Number
I made my gross at 1150# cause that seemed to be a popularly accepted weight
and I have regretted it ever since...
Walt forgot to add this part.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gross Weight and Serial Number
The gross weight and the serial number is created by you. I made my gross
at 1150# cause that seemed to be a popularly accepted weight.
My serial # is #737678 after my three kid's birth years
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: CapnAvid(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 3:04 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gross Weight and Serial Number
I have purchased a Pietenpol Aircamper project that is up to the covering
stage. Regarding the soon to be legal Light Sport class aircraft, what is the
recognized gross wt of a 3 pc wing Piet? Also, where do serial numbers come
from for a Piet?
Rogers (capnavid) Theetge
Georgia.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol article from 1989 Model A magazine...... |
Interesting article from the March/April 1989 issue of "The Restorer", a Model
A enthusiasts magazine:
<http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID60>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gross Weight and Serial Number |
CapnAvid(at)aol.com wrote:
Also, where do serial numbers come from for a Piet?
Rogers (capnavid) Theetge
Georgia.
The serial numbers come from the pietenpol factory....Oh, wait a minute, I guess
thats you !
Del
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.net" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | attachment of horizontal stab |
When attaching the horizontal stab, is it best to shim under each member until
they all are level? I'm wondering why the use of 3/16" ply on the two front members
and 1/8" on the back. It seems that instead of shimming it up, that using
a thinner gusset in those locations would also work?
Also, the plans call for screws attachment into longerons. I'm assuming people
are bolting through the longerons on the front two members... What about the
rear member where it connects at the tailpost?
Is there any problem with using standard carbon steel on the brackets for attaching
the tail members? I can get my hands on some for free if that would work.
Tom Brant
________________________________________________________________________________
On Tuesday evening 8/10, I landed at Otten Memorial airport, town of
Versailles, Mo., and a guy cleaning up his Cessna 190 after Oshkosh, helped me
re-fuel. I asked him if it would be all right to pitch my tent there, but then
offered me a ride to the motel. Suddenly, a hot shower, clean bed, and a look
at the Weather Channel became worth fifty bucks, and I loaded up my bags in
his back seat. After getting a full belly, scrub, and relaxing on the bed, I
looked at the charts without my glasses on, and I saw what looked like blue
scrambled eggs, just to the south of my proposed course. I put my glasses on,
and
discovered it was The Lake of the Ozarks !! Ah ha !! New flight plan !! I
highlighted every tower, and power line on the chart, flight planning a low
and slow flight south, then west, through the Lake of the Ozarks. The sky was
overcast at 5000', but it proved to be an incredible visual experience over the
many many fingers of that lake all over. So many docks, boats, and quite a
few big motels right on the tips of the peninsulas. I could tell this was a
weekday, because there just wasn't enough people around to accommodate the vast
quantity of docks, and boats at anchor. There is also a sea port, but I
couldn't spot any planes at anchor. I really didn't get down as low as I planned
on...no place to land just gives me the Hiebie Jiebie's !! Then continued west
over the Truman Dam and Reservoir, and there just wasn't hardly any docks or
anything down there. Continued west to Eureka for fuel, and to put the last
bottle of baby oil in. That was my longest leg - 3.3 hours.
Just to let the locals know I was back, I did a smoke run at Benton, and
Gliderport, before continuing south to Cook. About 2 miles out, on approach
to cross midfield at Cook, I noticed the whole parking lot was full of
cars...Jumpers !! I looked over midfield and saw 3 of them under canopy !! I
peeled
of to the right, to approach downwind from the north. I landed at Cook
Airfield, at 6:55...in the evening, that is. I kicked 'er around in front of my
hanger, and shut down. I sat there a few moments to collect my thoughts, and
thank the good Lord for a safe journey, and felt a little melancholy,
realizing the journey has come to a conclusion.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
p.s. I have lots of flying stories to tell !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Creeve Coeur |
In a message dated 8/9/04 10:26:46 PM Central Daylight Time,
sbobka(at)charter.net writes:
<< Chuck,
Make sure you fly through the Arch when you leave St. Louis.
Chris Bobka >>
Flying through the Arch would be no problem...out flying that young jock in
the Apache Hellicopter would be a much bigger challenge...
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: attachment of horizontal stab |
Tom,
Dale and I attached the tail pieces straight
and level.
Bolting through the longerons instead of
using screws is a widely accepted change.
What thickness steel do you have access to?
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: attachment of
horizontal stab
"tmbrant1(at)netzero.net"
>
>
> When attaching the horizontal stab, is it
best to shim under each member until they all
are level? I'm wondering why the use of
3/16" ply on the two front members and 1/8"
on the back. It seems that instead of
shimming it up, that using a thinner gusset
in those locations would also work?
>
> Also, the plans call for screws attachment
into longerons. I'm assuming people are
bolting through the longerons on the front
two members... What about the rear member
where it connects at the tailpost?
>
> Is there any problem with using standard
carbon steel on the brackets for attaching
the tail members? I can get my hands on some
for free if that would work.
>
> Tom Brant
>
>
=============================
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>
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>
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>
=============================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
Wow.......Chuck, you're my new hero. We all have been enviously following
you, and are happy to see you made it safely. Think a story a day will
last till next Brodhead?
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Any Pietenpolers planning to attend the Northwest Antique Aircraft Club
fly-in at McMinnville, OR on Aug. 20-22? [ http://www.nwaac.com/ ]
McMinnville is very, very close to where The Corvair Underground has their
offices and warehouse, for anybody who is converting a Corvair for their
Piet. It's also very close to Tillamook, which produces
internationally-distributed cheese products. And unless I'm mistaken, the
Hughes Flying Boat, aka the "Spruce Goose", is either in McMinnville or in
Tillamook. It's an antique, alright!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Back in Wichita |
Dear Chuck,
We're happy to hear you made home safely. Thanks again for swinging thru Texas
and giving us all here a boost. Also thanks for taking the kids up for rides.
Your spirit of adventure and determination are a true example of why we all
love the Pietenpol airplane. May the good Lord bless us all to have a trip like
yours someday. I'm sure a trip like that makes one even more proud to be
an American.
3 cheers for you, brother!!
Looking forward to your stories...
--
Terry L. Bowden
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Back in Wichita |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
Chuck,
Congratulations--will you be doing a book signing at Brodhead next year?
I'll reserve a copy now. The "3.3 hours" is making me wonder whether to
install some kind of drain tube in the floor. If you haven't seen them
yet your great little machine is on 2 photoshare links re: Brodhead.
Thanks for stories past, present, and hopefully future,
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Back in Wichita |
Ahh yes, a little drain tube connected to a little venturi at the tail
would do the trick nicely! I'll have to experiment with this on my
truck... ;)
See you all at Brodhead again next year...
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> mhodgson(at)bu.edu Friday, August 13, 2004 9:58:40 AM >>>
Chuck,
Congratulations--will you be doing a book signing at Brodhead next
year?
I'll reserve a copy now. The "3.3 hours" is making me wonder whether
to
install some kind of drain tube in the floor. If you haven't seen
them
yet your great little machine is on 2 photoshare links re: Brodhead.
Thanks for stories past, present, and hopefully future,
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Be very careful sizing that venture or you might get an unexpected
surprise@!# ouch.
STEVEE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Ford
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Back in Wichita
Ahh yes, a little drain tube connected to a little venturi at the tail
would do the trick nicely! I'll have to experiment with this on my
truck... ;)
See you all at Brodhead again next year...
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> mhodgson(at)bu.edu Friday, August 13, 2004 9:58:40 AM >>>
Chuck,
Congratulations--will you be doing a book signing at Brodhead next
year?
I'll reserve a copy now. The "3.3 hours" is making me wonder whether
to
install some kind of drain tube in the floor. If you haven't seen
them
yet your great little machine is on 2 photoshare links re: Brodhead.
Thanks for stories past, present, and hopefully future,
Mark Hodgson
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mike(at)mking.us> |
Chuck,
Let me add my sincere congratulations on an experience many
of us only dream.
It was a pleasure to greet you at AeroCountry in North Texas
and later that same day at Terry Bowden's place at Tick Hill.
Corky did a great job in keeping the list updated during your
adventure.
I would like to reserve a book too. Congratulations again
on a job well done.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Hodgson, Mark O
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Back in Wichita
Chuck,
Congratulations--will you be doing a book signing at Brodhead
next year?
I'll reserve a copy now. The "3.3 hours" is making me wonder
whether to
install some kind of drain tube in the floor. If you haven't
seen them
yet your great little machine is on 2 photoshare links re:
Brodhead.
Thanks for stories past, present, and hopefully future,
Mark Hodgson
=========
=========
=========
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "malcolm Zirges" <macz(at)macsells.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Antique Fly-In |
The Spruce Goose is definitely in McMinnville in a beautiful new air museum.
There is also a very nice air museum at Tillamook in one of the (HUGE) old
Dirigible hangars from WWII.
Mac in Oregon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Antique Fly-In
>
> Any Pietenpolers planning to attend the Northwest Antique Aircraft Club
> fly-in at McMinnville, OR on Aug. 20-22? [ http://www.nwaac.com/ ]
>
> McMinnville is very, very close to where The Corvair Underground has their
> offices and warehouse, for anybody who is converting a Corvair for their
> Piet. It's also very close to Tillamook, which produces
> internationally-distributed cheese products. And unless I'm mistaken, the
> Hughes Flying Boat, aka the "Spruce Goose", is either in McMinnville or in
> Tillamook. It's an antique, alright!
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Back in Wichita |
One of the reasons I'm working on this GN 1 is that I hope to have it finished
when I retire in 2 years to Mountain View, Arkansas. It's a great, little
known area where the pace is definitely slower that what most of us are used
to. I've owned 10 acres up on a hill above town, for about 5 years
and twice a year we drive from Jacksonville to M.V. to clear a little
more of the property.
As Chuck said earlier, what a beautiful place to fly.
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
"Taylorcraft" ,
"Corvair"
| Subject: | Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism |
----- Original Message -----
From: info(at)nationalairtour.org
Subject: NBC News Practices Terrorism
Subscriber Bulletin
Here at the Aviation Foundation of America (National Air Tour) we are concerned
about the preservation and sharing of America's great aviation heritage. Acts
of terrorism threaten our aviation heritage and we need to guard against them.
Today we received notification of another act of "terrorism", this one was conducted
by NBC NEWS. NBC, acting as terrorists, tried to create their own act of
terror for the sake of creating yet another anti-aviation news story.
We have received the e-mail below describing NBC's abuse of taxpayers' money and
tying up law enforcement for the sake of their own agenda. It appears we not
only have to be watching for terrorists at our airports but also for NBC News.
In the final analysis they are attempting just another version of "terror" themselves.
Please read the e-mail below and forward it to anyone you feel would be interested.
Original Message:
From: "Celeste Clark"
Subject: NATA Member SPECIAL NOTICE
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:58:03 -0400
**Special NATA Member Notice**
ATTEMPTED SECURITY BREACH AT GENERAL AVIATION AIRPORT
In an effort to show allegedly lax security procedures, NBC News attempted to penetrate
a charter helicopter operation at St. Louis Downtown Airport on Wednesday,
August 11th.
The attempt was brought to a halt, and the individuals were apprehended.
Though this breach of security was stopped, it was indicated that NBC and other
news agencies might attempt to repeat their efforts at other facilities around
the country.
NATA urges operators to continue to be on the alert for security breaches by news
agencies "testing the waters" and, more importantly, actual terrorist organizations
or individuals intent on doing harm.
Operators nationwide are encouraged to review their security procedures and reinforce their security policies on a regular basis. NATA Members should review the TSA's Security Guidelines for General Aviation Airports (http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1113.xml). Any suspicious activity should be reported immediately to the Airport Watch Hotline at (866) GA SECURE.
The account of the August 11 incident, provided by the director of the St. Louis
Downtown Airport follows:
"Earlier today two Middle Eastern men attempted to penetrate our security. They
telephoned one of my helicopter FBOs and asked about a charter flight. After
discussion of price and directions to the business, they arrived an hour later.
When the office agent asked how they were going to pay for the flight they produced
cash. When asked for ID, they produced driver's licenses from two different
states and they were driving a car licensed in a third state.
Things didn't smell right so the mechanic took them into the hangar to see the
aircraft while the office person called the FBI and local police. The helicopter
they were going to fly was blocked in by other aircraft so the mechanic was
able to stall them by having to slowly shuffle the blocking planes. Meanwhile
the two men got their backpacks and odd-shaped luggage out of their car. Soon
the local police arrived and they were hauled off to jail in handcuffs.
After a little time behind bars, the FBI verified that the two men were employed
by NBC New York and were on assignment to get a story of how easy it is to charter
a helicopter for a terrorist attack. The men had stayed in a local hotel
and purchased box cutters, leather-man knives, and other potential weapons at
the local Wal-Mart using a credit card. The box cutters had been hidden in the
lining at the bottom of the backpacks and the other weapons were hidden throughout
their baggage. They had audio taped the telephone conversation with Arlene
and were going to use it as part of a national news story about how easy
it is to get information and directions to the location of the helicopter and
then hijack it to commit a terrorist attack.
I doubt they will be back at our airport soon and this is a story that will never
be seen since they were caught. A very "well-done" to my FBO and staff and
the local FBI and police response forces. We have since learned that we were the
first airport where this had been attempted and NBC planned to attempt similar
penetration stories around the country. Please help me spread the word to
other airports."
For additional information contact:
Beth Van Emburgh Manager, Government & Industry Affairs bvanemburgh@nata-online.org
To unsubscribe from these newsletters please click here
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism |
I hope NBC has the guts to run the story anyway, demonstrating how it
isn't such a piece of cake to hijack a helicopter after all. What they
did is something that probably needed to be done, assuming they run the
story. If they don't run the story, then they have zero integrity. I
don't normally watch TV news, so if anybody sees this run (or a promo
for it) then let me know because I'd like to see how they handle it.
John (the former TV journalist)
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> sbobka(at)charter.net Friday, August 13, 2004 12:48:24 PM >>>
----- Original Message -----
From: info(at)nationalairtour.org
Subject: NBC News Practices Terrorism
Subscriber Bulletin
Here at the Aviation Foundation of America (National Air Tour) we are
concerned about the preservation and sharing of America's great aviation
heritage. Acts of terrorism threaten our aviation heritage and we need
to guard against them.
Today we received notification of another act of "terrorism", this one
was conducted by NBC NEWS. NBC, acting as terrorists, tried to create
their own act of terror for the sake of creating yet another
anti-aviation news story.
We have received the e-mail below describing NBC's abuse of taxpayers'
money and tying up law enforcement for the sake of their own agenda. It
appears we not only have to be watching for terrorists at our airports
but also for NBC News. In the final analysis they are attempting just
another version of "terror" themselves.
Please read the e-mail below and forward it to anyone you feel would be
interested.
Original Message:
From: "Celeste Clark"
Subject: NATA Member SPECIAL NOTICE
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:58:03 -0400
**Special NATA Member Notice**
ATTEMPTED SECURITY BREACH AT GENERAL AVIATION AIRPORT
In an effort to show allegedly lax security procedures, NBC News
attempted to penetrate a charter helicopter operation at St. Louis
Downtown Airport on Wednesday, August 11th.
The attempt was brought to a halt, and the individuals were
apprehended.
Though this breach of security was stopped, it was indicated that NBC
and other news agencies might attempt to repeat their efforts at other
facilities around the country.
NATA urges operators to continue to be on the alert for security
breaches by news agencies "testing the waters" and, more importantly,
actual terrorist organizations or individuals intent on doing harm.
Operators nationwide are encouraged to review their security procedures
and reinforce their security policies on a regular basis. NATA Members
should review the TSA's Security Guidelines for General Aviation
Airports
(http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1113.xml). Any
suspicious activity should be reported immediately to the Airport Watch
Hotline at (866) GA SECURE.
The account of the August 11 incident, provided by the director of the
St. Louis Downtown Airport follows:
"Earlier today two Middle Eastern men attempted to penetrate our
security. They telephoned one of my helicopter FBOs and asked about a
charter flight. After discussion of price and directions to the
business, they arrived an hour later. When the office agent asked how
they were going to pay for the flight they produced cash. When asked for
ID, they produced driver's licenses from two different states and they
were driving a car licensed in a third state.
Things didn't smell right so the mechanic took them into the hangar to
see the aircraft while the office person called the FBI and local
police. The helicopter they were going to fly was blocked in by other
aircraft so the mechanic was able to stall them by having to slowly
shuffle the blocking planes. Meanwhile the two men got their backpacks
and odd-shaped luggage out of their car. Soon the local police arrived
and they were hauled off to jail in handcuffs.
After a little time behind bars, the FBI verified that the two men were
employed by NBC New York and were on assignment to get a story of how
easy it is to charter a helicopter for a terrorist attack. The men had
stayed in a local hotel and purchased box cutters, leather-man knives,
and other potential weapons at the local Wal-Mart using a credit card.
The box cutters had been hidden in the lining at the bottom of the
backpacks and the other weapons were hidden throughout their baggage.
They had audio taped the telephone conversation with Arlene and were
going to use it as part of a national news story about how easy it is to
get information and directions to the location of the helicopter and
then hijack it to commit a terrorist attack.
I doubt they will be back at our airport soon and this is a story that
will never be seen since they were caught. A very "well-done" to my FBO
and staff and the local FBI and police response forces. We have since
learned that we were the first airport where this had been attempted and
NBC planned to attempt similar penetration stories around the country.
Please help me spread the word to other airports."
For additional information contact:
Beth Van Emburgh Manager, Government & Industry Affairs
bvanemburgh@nata-online.org
To unsubscribe from these newsletters please click here
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism |
It was given brief mention on Nightline last night.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism
>
> I hope NBC has the guts to run the story anyway, demonstrating how it
> isn't such a piece of cake to hijack a helicopter after all. What they
> did is something that probably needed to be done, assuming they run the
> story. If they don't run the story, then they have zero integrity. I
> don't normally watch TV news, so if anybody sees this run (or a promo
> for it) then let me know because I'd like to see how they handle it.
>
> John (the former TV journalist)
>
> John Ford
> john(at)indstate.edu
> 812-237-8542
>
>
> >>> sbobka(at)charter.net Friday, August 13, 2004 12:48:24 PM >>>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: info(at)nationalairtour.org
> To: bobka(at)charter.net
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 7:31 AM
> Subject: NBC News Practices Terrorism
>
>
> Subscriber Bulletin
>
> Here at the Aviation Foundation of America (National Air Tour) we are
> concerned about the preservation and sharing of America's great aviation
> heritage. Acts of terrorism threaten our aviation heritage and we need
> to guard against them.
>
> Today we received notification of another act of "terrorism", this one
> was conducted by NBC NEWS. NBC, acting as terrorists, tried to create
> their own act of terror for the sake of creating yet another
> anti-aviation news story.
>
> We have received the e-mail below describing NBC's abuse of taxpayers'
> money and tying up law enforcement for the sake of their own agenda. It
> appears we not only have to be watching for terrorists at our airports
> but also for NBC News. In the final analysis they are attempting just
> another version of "terror" themselves.
>
> Please read the e-mail below and forward it to anyone you feel would be
> interested.
>
> Original Message:
> From: "Celeste Clark"
> To: NATA Membership
> Subject: NATA Member SPECIAL NOTICE
> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:58:03 -0400
>
> **Special NATA Member Notice**
>
> ATTEMPTED SECURITY BREACH AT GENERAL AVIATION AIRPORT
>
> In an effort to show allegedly lax security procedures, NBC News
> attempted to penetrate a charter helicopter operation at St. Louis
> Downtown Airport on Wednesday, August 11th.
>
> The attempt was brought to a halt, and the individuals were
> apprehended.
>
> Though this breach of security was stopped, it was indicated that NBC
> and other news agencies might attempt to repeat their efforts at other
> facilities around the country.
>
> NATA urges operators to continue to be on the alert for security
> breaches by news agencies "testing the waters" and, more importantly,
> actual terrorist organizations or individuals intent on doing harm.
>
> Operators nationwide are encouraged to review their security procedures
> and reinforce their security policies on a regular basis. NATA Members
> should review the TSA's Security Guidelines for General Aviation
> Airports
> (http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1113.xml). Any
> suspicious activity should be reported immediately to the Airport Watch
> Hotline at (866) GA SECURE.
>
> The account of the August 11 incident, provided by the director of the
> St. Louis Downtown Airport follows:
>
> "Earlier today two Middle Eastern men attempted to penetrate our
> security. They telephoned one of my helicopter FBOs and asked about a
> charter flight. After discussion of price and directions to the
> business, they arrived an hour later. When the office agent asked how
> they were going to pay for the flight they produced cash. When asked for
> ID, they produced driver's licenses from two different states and they
> were driving a car licensed in a third state.
>
> Things didn't smell right so the mechanic took them into the hangar to
> see the aircraft while the office person called the FBI and local
> police. The helicopter they were going to fly was blocked in by other
> aircraft so the mechanic was able to stall them by having to slowly
> shuffle the blocking planes. Meanwhile the two men got their backpacks
> and odd-shaped luggage out of their car. Soon the local police arrived
> and they were hauled off to jail in handcuffs.
>
> After a little time behind bars, the FBI verified that the two men were
> employed by NBC New York and were on assignment to get a story of how
> easy it is to charter a helicopter for a terrorist attack. The men had
> stayed in a local hotel and purchased box cutters, leather-man knives,
> and other potential weapons at the local Wal-Mart using a credit card.
> The box cutters had been hidden in the lining at the bottom of the
> backpacks and the other weapons were hidden throughout their baggage.
> They had audio taped the telephone conversation with Arlene and were
> going to use it as part of a national news story about how easy it is to
> get information and directions to the location of the helicopter and
> then hijack it to commit a terrorist attack.
>
> I doubt they will be back at our airport soon and this is a story that
> will never be seen since they were caught. A very "well-done" to my FBO
> and staff and the local FBI and police response forces. We have since
> learned that we were the first airport where this had been attempted and
> NBC planned to attempt similar penetration stories around the country.
> Please help me spread the word to other airports."
>
> For additional information contact:
>
> Beth Van Emburgh Manager, Government & Industry Affairs
> bvanemburgh@nata-online.org
> To unsubscribe from these newsletters please click here
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Hargrove <ronhargrove(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism |
I remember seeing a story on the evening news as well.
>
> It was given brief mention on Nightline last night.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism
>
> >
> > I hope NBC has the guts to run the story anyway, demonstrating how it
> > isn't such a piece of cake to hijack a helicopter after all. What they
> > did is something that probably needed to be done, assuming they run the
> > story. If they don't run the story, then they have zero integrity. I
> > don't normally watch TV news, so if anybody sees this run (or a promo
> > for it) then let me know because I'd like to see how they handle it.
> >
> > John (the former TV journalist)
> >
> > John Ford
> > john(at)indstate.edu
> > 812-237-8542
> >
> >
> > >>> sbobka(at)charter.net Friday, August 13, 2004 12:48:24 PM >>>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: info(at)nationalairtour.org
> > To: bobka(at)charter.net
> > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 7:31 AM
> > Subject: NBC News Practices Terrorism
> >
> >
> > Subscriber Bulletin
> >
> > Here at the Aviation Foundation of America (National Air Tour) we are
> > concerned about the preservation and sharing of America's great aviation
> > heritage. Acts of terrorism threaten our aviation heritage and we need
> > to guard against them.
> >
> > Today we received notification of another act of "terrorism", this one
> > was conducted by NBC NEWS. NBC, acting as terrorists, tried to create
> > their own act of terror for the sake of creating yet another
> > anti-aviation news story.
> >
> > We have received the e-mail below describing NBC's abuse of taxpayers'
> > money and tying up law enforcement for the sake of their own agenda. It
> > appears we not only have to be watching for terrorists at our airports
> > but also for NBC News. In the final analysis they are attempting just
> > another version of "terror" themselves.
> >
> > Please read the e-mail below and forward it to anyone you feel would be
> > interested.
> >
> > Original Message:
> > From: "Celeste Clark"
> > To: NATA Membership
> > Subject: NATA Member SPECIAL NOTICE
> > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:58:03 -0400
> >
> > **Special NATA Member Notice**
> >
> > ATTEMPTED SECURITY BREACH AT GENERAL AVIATION AIRPORT
> >
> > In an effort to show allegedly lax security procedures, NBC News
> > attempted to penetrate a charter helicopter operation at St. Louis
> > Downtown Airport on Wednesday, August 11th.
> >
> > The attempt was brought to a halt, and the individuals were
> > apprehended.
> >
> > Though this breach of security was stopped, it was indicated that NBC
> > and other news agencies might attempt to repeat their efforts at other
> > facilities around the country.
> >
> > NATA urges operators to continue to be on the alert for security
> > breaches by news agencies "testing the waters" and, more importantly,
> > actual terrorist organizations or individuals intent on doing harm.
> >
> > Operators nationwide are encouraged to review their security procedures
> > and reinforce their security policies on a regular basis. NATA Members
> > should review the TSA's Security Guidelines for General Aviation
> > Airports
> > (http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1113.xml). Any
> > suspicious activity should be reported immediately to the Airport Watch
> > Hotline at (866) GA SECURE.
> >
> > The account of the August 11 incident, provided by the director of the
> > St. Louis Downtown Airport follows:
> >
> > "Earlier today two Middle Eastern men attempted to penetrate our
> > security. They telephoned one of my helicopter FBOs and asked about a
> > charter flight. After discussion of price and directions to the
> > business, they arrived an hour later. When the office agent asked how
> > they were going to pay for the flight they produced cash. When asked for
> > ID, they produced driver's licenses from two different states and they
> > were driving a car licensed in a third state.
> >
> > Things didn't smell right so the mechanic took them into the hangar to
> > see the aircraft while the office person called the FBI and local
> > police. The helicopter they were going to fly was blocked in by other
> > aircraft so the mechanic was able to stall them by having to slowly
> > shuffle the blocking planes. Meanwhile the two men got their backpacks
> > and odd-shaped luggage out of their car. Soon the local police arrived
> > and they were hauled off to jail in handcuffs.
> >
> > After a little time behind bars, the FBI verified that the two men were
> > employed by NBC New York and were on assignment to get a story of how
> > easy it is to charter a helicopter for a terrorist attack. The men had
> > stayed in a local hotel and purchased box cutters, leather-man knives,
> > and other potential weapons at the local Wal-Mart using a credit card.
> > The box cutters had been hidden in the lining at the bottom of the
> > backpacks and the other weapons were hidden throughout their baggage.
> > They had audio taped the telephone conversation with Arlene and were
> > going to use it as part of a national news story about how easy it is to
> > get information and directions to the location of the helicopter and
> > then hijack it to commit a terrorist attack.
> >
> > I doubt they will be back at our airport soon and this is a story that
> > will never be seen since they were caught. A very "well-done" to my FBO
> > and staff and the local FBI and police response forces. We have since
> > learned that we were the first airport where this had been attempted and
> > NBC planned to attempt similar penetration stories around the country.
> > Please help me spread the word to other airports."
> >
> > For additional information contact:
> >
> > Beth Van Emburgh Manager, Government & Industry Affairs
> > bvanemburgh@nata-online.org
> > To unsubscribe from these newsletters please click here
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Back in Wichita |
Just down the road or lake whatever way you choose was the local EAA
chapter, just northwest of Laurie, MO. They have a nice grass strip and a
bunch of homebuilts. If I had known you were going to the Lake, I would have
told you to fly over "party cove" where the women would have saluted you by
taking off their tops, that is if they had them on in the first place. Due
to a court decision last year, as soon as the boat leaves the dock,
toplessness and bottomlessness I think is legally protected.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Back in Wichita
>
> On Tuesday evening 8/10, I landed at Otten Memorial airport, town of
> Versailles, Mo., and a guy cleaning up his Cessna 190 after Oshkosh,
helped me
> re-fuel. I asked him if it would be all right to pitch my tent there, but
then
> offered me a ride to the motel. Suddenly, a hot shower, clean bed, and a
look
> at the Weather Channel became worth fifty bucks, and I loaded up my bags
in
> his back seat. After getting a full belly, scrub, and relaxing on the
bed, I
> looked at the charts without my glasses on, and I saw what looked like
blue
> scrambled eggs, just to the south of my proposed course. I put my glasses
on, and
> discovered it was The Lake of the Ozarks !! Ah ha !! New flight plan !!
I
> highlighted every tower, and power line on the chart, flight planning a
low
> and slow flight south, then west, through the Lake of the Ozarks. The sky
was
> overcast at 5000', but it proved to be an incredible visual experience
over the
> many many fingers of that lake all over. So many docks, boats, and quite
a
> few big motels right on the tips of the peninsulas. I could tell this was
a
> weekday, because there just wasn't enough people around to accommodate the
vast
> quantity of docks, and boats at anchor. There is also a sea port, but I
> couldn't spot any planes at anchor. I really didn't get down as low as I
planned
> on...no place to land just gives me the Hiebie Jiebie's !! Then continued
west
> over the Truman Dam and Reservoir, and there just wasn't hardly any docks
or
> anything down there. Continued west to Eureka for fuel, and to put the
last
> bottle of baby oil in. That was my longest leg - 3.3 hours.
> Just to let the locals know I was back, I did a smoke run at Benton,
and
> Gliderport, before continuing south to Cook. About 2 miles out, on
approach
> to cross midfield at Cook, I noticed the whole parking lot was full of
> cars...Jumpers !! I looked over midfield and saw 3 of them under canopy
!! I peeled
> of to the right, to approach downwind from the north. I landed at Cook
> Airfield, at 6:55...in the evening, that is. I kicked 'er around in front
of my
> hanger, and shut down. I sat there a few moments to collect my thoughts,
and
> thank the good Lord for a safe journey, and felt a little melancholy,
> realizing the journey has come to a conclusion.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
> p.s. I have lots of flying stories to tell !!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Back in Wichita |
........If I had known you were going to the Lake, I would have
told you to fly over "party cove" where the women would have saluted you by
taking off their tops, that is if they had them on in the first place. Due
to a court decision last year, as soon as the boat leaves the dock,
toplessness and bottomlessness I think is legally protected.
It will probably be a while before Chuck answers this email.......he's probably
in the aire somewhere between Wichita and Lake of the Ozarks right now......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism |
John, I have to disagree with you. NBC is looking to make their own news not report
it. This is a slap in the face to General Aviation. They continue to look
at the smaller aircraft that can only do relatively minor damage. Remember
this started by Hijackers taking Large Airliners, NOT small helicoptors or Cessnas.
Has NBC done a story on how easy it is to rent a Ryder truck???? Have
they done a story on how good the security is at your local bank? Put another
way, If your dog poops on the floor do you spank your kids? My old junk pickup
can carry far more than a small aircraft and do considerable more damage.
Have you been paying attention to Iraq, some of the major damage done there
are with car bombs. Cars not even trucks. I hope those two get some real jail
time and NBC get hit with some hefty fines.
Jim Dallas
----- Original Message -----
From: John Ford
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism
I hope NBC has the guts to run the story anyway, demonstrating how it
isn't such a piece of cake to hijack a helicopter after all. What they
did is something that probably needed to be done, assuming they run the
story. If they don't run the story, then they have zero integrity. I
don't normally watch TV news, so if anybody sees this run (or a promo
for it) then let me know because I'd like to see how they handle it.
John (the former TV journalist)
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> sbobka(at)charter.net Friday, August 13, 2004 12:48:24 PM >>>
----- Original Message -----
From: info(at)nationalairtour.org
To: bobka(at)charter.net
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 7:31 AM
Subject: NBC News Practices Terrorism
Subscriber Bulletin
Here at the Aviation Foundation of America (National Air Tour) we are
concerned about the preservation and sharing of America's great aviation
heritage. Acts of terrorism threaten our aviation heritage and we need
to guard against them.
Today we received notification of another act of "terrorism", this one
was conducted by NBC NEWS. NBC, acting as terrorists, tried to create
their own act of terror for the sake of creating yet another
anti-aviation news story.
We have received the e-mail below describing NBC's abuse of taxpayers'
money and tying up law enforcement for the sake of their own agenda. It
appears we not only have to be watching for terrorists at our airports
but also for NBC News. In the final analysis they are attempting just
another version of "terror" themselves.
Please read the e-mail below and forward it to anyone you feel would be
interested.
Original Message:
From: "Celeste Clark"
To: NATA Membership
Subject: NATA Member SPECIAL NOTICE
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:58:03 -0400
**Special NATA Member Notice**
ATTEMPTED SECURITY BREACH AT GENERAL AVIATION AIRPORT
In an effort to show allegedly lax security procedures, NBC News
attempted to penetrate a charter helicopter operation at St. Louis
Downtown Airport on Wednesday, August 11th.
The attempt was brought to a halt, and the individuals were
apprehended.
Though this breach of security was stopped, it was indicated that NBC
and other news agencies might attempt to repeat their efforts at other
facilities around the country.
NATA urges operators to continue to be on the alert for security
breaches by news agencies "testing the waters" and, more importantly,
actual terrorist organizations or individuals intent on doing harm.
Operators nationwide are encouraged to review their security procedures
and reinforce their security policies on a regular basis. NATA Members
should review the TSA's Security Guidelines for General Aviation
Airports
(http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1113.xml). Any
suspicious activity should be reported immediately to the Airport Watch
Hotline at (866) GA SECURE.
The account of the August 11 incident, provided by the director of the
St. Louis Downtown Airport follows:
"Earlier today two Middle Eastern men attempted to penetrate our
security. They telephoned one of my helicopter FBOs and asked about a
charter flight. After discussion of price and directions to the
business, they arrived an hour later. When the office agent asked how
they were going to pay for the flight they produced cash. When asked for
ID, they produced driver's licenses from two different states and they
were driving a car licensed in a third state.
Things didn't smell right so the mechanic took them into the hangar to
see the aircraft while the office person called the FBI and local
police. The helicopter they were going to fly was blocked in by other
aircraft so the mechanic was able to stall them by having to slowly
shuffle the blocking planes. Meanwhile the two men got their backpacks
and odd-shaped luggage out of their car. Soon the local police arrived
and they were hauled off to jail in handcuffs.
After a little time behind bars, the FBI verified that the two men were
employed by NBC New York and were on assignment to get a story of how
easy it is to charter a helicopter for a terrorist attack. The men had
stayed in a local hotel and purchased box cutters, leather-man knives,
and other potential weapons at the local Wal-Mart using a credit card.
The box cutters had been hidden in the lining at the bottom of the
backpacks and the other weapons were hidden throughout their baggage.
They had audio taped the telephone conversation with Arlene and were
going to use it as part of a national news story about how easy it is to
get information and directions to the location of the helicopter and
then hijack it to commit a terrorist attack.
I doubt they will be back at our airport soon and this is a story that
will never be seen since they were caught. A very "well-done" to my FBO
and staff and the local FBI and police response forces. We have since
learned that we were the first airport where this had been attempted and
NBC planned to attempt similar penetration stories around the country.
Please help me spread the word to other airports."
For additional information contact:
Beth Van Emburgh Manager, Government & Industry Affairs
bvanemburgh@nata-online.org
To unsubscribe from these newsletters please click here
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.net" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: attachment of horizontal stab |
Greg,
I should have some 10 and 12 ga. carbon steel. I work with several fabricators
who I've made friends with over the years. I usually buy lunch for them and
they'll do some butting and bending for me with their cut-offs that they have
on hand.
I'm thinking the brackets for the tail section could be 12 ga. The plans call
for 12 and 13 ga. and back in the day they didn't have 4130 and it worked just
fine. Bill Rewey's entire plane uses plain old carbon steel for all the fittings
I believe. I may do as he did also and make elevator / aileron horns out
of flat sheet material instead of the formed / welded called for in the plans...
Just seems simpler.
I'd be happy to have you and Dale drop by for a look at the project so far. Of
course I'd take full advantage of the situation and pick your brains until you
were begging to go home.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: attachment of horizontal stab |
Tom,
If you saw the works of art the built up horns are once they are done.....
I would stick with the plans. Plans call for steel. Just make sure the
steel is COLD ROLLED and not hot rolled. Hot rolled is too soft and would
be unsafe.
chris
----- Original Message -----
From: <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: attachment of horizontal stab
>
>
> Greg,
>
> I should have some 10 and 12 ga. carbon steel. I work with several
fabricators who I've made friends with over the years. I usually buy lunch
for them and they'll do some butting and bending for me with their cut-offs
that they have on hand.
>
> I'm thinking the brackets for the tail section could be 12 ga. The plans
call for 12 and 13 ga. and back in the day they didn't have 4130 and it
worked just fine. Bill Rewey's entire plane uses plain old carbon steel for
all the fittings I believe. I may do as he did also and make elevator /
aileron horns out of flat sheet material instead of the formed / welded
called for in the plans... Just seems simpler.
>
> I'd be happy to have you and Dale drop by for a look at the project so
far. Of course I'd take full advantage of the situation and pick your
brains until you were begging to go home.
>
> Tom B.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | formula for arc for instrument panels and turtledeck curves |
I had been trying to figure out how to lay out the instrument panels and turtle
deck curves for a while, but couldn't figure out the radii, especially when there
were changes in width of the arc or height of it. Actually, I have been wanting
a formula to do this for some time.
One of the nail benders at work last week knew the formula and he shared it
with me. Works like a charm. it is:
the width of the arc squared plus the height of the arc squared, divided by the
width of the arc.
I drilled a 1 X 2 out for a round pencil and cut a slot so it would fit snugly
then just drove a finishing nail through the 1 X 2 the distance from the point
to the correct radius. Works great and is free!
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Dennis wrote-
>the width of the arc squared plus the height of the arc squared,
>divided by the width of the arc.
Dennis, please clarify. I tried this with a 24" wide cockpit (24" wide
arc), 6" high. That's (576+36)/24 and it yields a radius of 25-1/2"...
which doesn't compute. The resulting arc actually has a radius of 15".
What'd I do wrong?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: formula for arc |
I'll bet there's also a way to do it with a circle of string and two
nails.....
Hmmm, a changing radius....pretty close to an elipse, right?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: formula for arc
>
> Dennis wrote-
>
> >the width of the arc squared plus the height of the arc squared,
> >divided by the width of the arc.
>
> Dennis, please clarify. I tried this with a 24" wide cockpit (24" wide
> arc), 6" high. That's (576+36)/24 and it yields a radius of 25-1/2"...
> which doesn't compute. The resulting arc actually has a radius of 15".
> What'd I do wrong?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism |
As a young person (25) it simply saddens me that our media giants feel it is
necessary to scare their viewers. Why not run a story that makes people
happy about airplanes, and life in general? Send an NBC reporter to the home
of
anyone on this list who's actively building their airplane, and do a special
on how aviation brings people closer together. Do a story about the
community that is the local airport. Just do something that's intended to make
people feel good, not scared. One more reason why all those evening "news
journal" shows have no appeal to so many in my generation.
I've yet to meet a person in aviation that I would consider to be a "bad"
person. We're a small group in a land of so many, but I know that ours are
some of the best people out there.
-Wayne
Eventually I'll build a Piet...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Green" <mmml(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: formula for arc |
I did a lot of head scratching on this one. ( I raised the turtle deck 1" above
plans.) Here's the formula I found on the web. Works a treat!
http://www.josephfusco.org/Tips/tip0018.html
Mike Green
Romsey,
Victoria
AUSTRALIA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hurricane Charley |
Pieters
Lets don't forget that some of our listers live in south florida (and the eastern
seaboard) and may have been impacted by the hurricane. Has anybody heard from
Ted Brousseau or Dick Gillespie (Naples and Ft. Myers I think) - maybe some
others I am leaving out?
If you have heard from them, please let us (me) know - I'm not gonna call and
load up the telephone circuits.
There have been a lot of people impacted whose lives will be forever changed.
Lets remember them in our thoughts and prayers.
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism |
Jim,
I partially agree with you. The proper way to do it would have been to
coordinate with the FAA and DHS, as those agencies do spot checks (which
they do). The reporters did not do anything illegal, and were stopped
based upon racial/ethnic profiling (which is problematic at best - Tim
McVeigh wouldn't have caught ANYONE'S attention) In that, I almost
think NBC wanted them to get hassled. I agree that NBC was trying to
get a scoop. I think their scoop is that GA is keenly interested in
securing our aircraft from terrorist and other nefarious activities, and
that the "airport watch" model works better than any rent-a-cop ever
could. I believe it's useful for network television to learn the hard
way that GA isn't going to be the problem, if they will actually report
it that way rather than try to freak everybody out like they normally do
anymore. To take it a step further, I think there are remarkably few
real terrorist threats to our safety, regardless of what the government
would like us to believe. It does trouble me greatly that we're focused
on looking for ghosts over here while we're making ghosts out of our
kids (and their kids) over there. If newsrooms were funded worth a crap
by the mega-corporations that own them, then these guys would have been
able to do actual research and reporting on actual problems instead of
the "easy" story that doesn't cost anything but looks sexy. THAT's why
TV news in America sucks so bad... And... GA passed the test...
/end soapbox mode
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> BEC176(at)msn.com Friday, August 13, 2004 10:35:58 PM >>>
John, I have to disagree with you. NBC is looking to make their own
news not report it. This is a slap in the face to General Aviation.
They continue to look at the smaller aircraft that can only do
relatively minor damage. Remember this started by Hijackers taking
Large Airliners, NOT small helicoptors or Cessnas. Has NBC done a story
on how easy it is to rent a Ryder truck???? Have they done a story on
how good the security is at your local bank? Put another way, If your
dog poops on the floor do you spank your kids? My old junk pickup can
carry far more than a small aircraft and do considerable more damage.
Have you been paying attention to Iraq, some of the major damage done
there are with car bombs. Cars not even trucks. I hope those two get
some real jail time and NBC get hit with some hefty fines.
Jim Dallas
----- Original Message -----
From: John Ford
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism
I hope NBC has the guts to run the story anyway, demonstrating how it
isn't such a piece of cake to hijack a helicopter after all. What
they
did is something that probably needed to be done, assuming they run
the
story. If they don't run the story, then they have zero integrity. I
don't normally watch TV news, so if anybody sees this run (or a promo
for it) then let me know because I'd like to see how they handle it.
John (the former TV journalist)
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> sbobka(at)charter.net Friday, August 13, 2004 12:48:24 PM >>>
----- Original Message -----
From: info(at)nationalairtour.org
Subject: NBC News Practices Terrorism
Subscriber Bulletin
Here at the Aviation Foundation of America (National Air Tour) we are
concerned about the preservation and sharing of America's great
aviation
heritage. Acts of terrorism threaten our aviation heritage and we need
to guard against them.
Today we received notification of another act of "terrorism", this one
was conducted by NBC NEWS. NBC, acting as terrorists, tried to create
their own act of terror for the sake of creating yet another
anti-aviation news story.
We have received the e-mail below describing NBC's abuse of taxpayers'
money and tying up law enforcement for the sake of their own agenda.
It
appears we not only have to be watching for terrorists at our airports
but also for NBC News. In the final analysis they are attempting just
another version of "terror" themselves.
Please read the e-mail below and forward it to anyone you feel would
be
interested.
Original Message:
From: "Celeste Clark"
Subject: NATA Member SPECIAL NOTICE
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:58:03 -0400
**Special NATA Member Notice**
ATTEMPTED SECURITY BREACH AT GENERAL AVIATION AIRPORT
In an effort to show allegedly lax security procedures, NBC News
attempted to penetrate a charter helicopter operation at St. Louis
Downtown Airport on Wednesday, August 11th.
The attempt was brought to a halt, and the individuals were
apprehended.
Though this breach of security was stopped, it was indicated that NBC
and other news agencies might attempt to repeat their efforts at other
facilities around the country.
NATA urges operators to continue to be on the alert for security
breaches by news agencies "testing the waters" and, more importantly,
actual terrorist organizations or individuals intent on doing harm.
Operators nationwide are encouraged to review their security
procedures
and reinforce their security policies on a regular basis. NATA Members
should review the TSA's Security Guidelines for General Aviation
Airports
(http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1113.xml). Any
suspicious activity should be reported immediately to the Airport
Watch
Hotline at (866) GA SECURE.
The account of the August 11 incident, provided by the director of the
St. Louis Downtown Airport follows:
"Earlier today two Middle Eastern men attempted to penetrate our
security. They telephoned one of my helicopter FBOs and asked about a
charter flight. After discussion of price and directions to the
business, they arrived an hour later. When the office agent asked how
they were going to pay for the flight they produced cash. When asked
for
ID, they produced driver's licenses from two different states and they
were driving a car licensed in a third state.
Things didn't smell right so the mechanic took them into the hangar to
see the aircraft while the office person called the FBI and local
police. The helicopter they were going to fly was blocked in by other
aircraft so the mechanic was able to stall them by having to slowly
shuffle the blocking planes. Meanwhile the two men got their backpacks
and odd-shaped luggage out of their car. Soon the local police arrived
and they were hauled off to jail in handcuffs.
After a little time behind bars, the FBI verified that the two men
were
employed by NBC New York and were on assignment to get a story of how
easy it is to charter a helicopter for a terrorist attack. The men had
stayed in a local hotel and purchased box cutters, leather-man knives,
and other potential weapons at the local Wal-Mart using a credit card.
The box cutters had been hidden in the lining at the bottom of the
backpacks and the other weapons were hidden throughout their baggage.
They had audio taped the telephone conversation with Arlene and were
going to use it as part of a national news story about how easy it is
to
get information and directions to the location of the helicopter and
then hijack it to commit a terrorist attack.
I doubt they will be back at our airport soon and this is a story that
will never be seen since they were caught. A very "well-done" to my
FBO
and staff and the local FBI and police response forces. We have since
learned that we were the first airport where this had been attempted
and
NBC planned to attempt similar penetration stories around the country.
Please help me spread the word to other airports."
For additional information contact:
Beth Van Emburgh Manager, Government & Industry Affairs
bvanemburgh@nata-online.org
To unsubscribe from these newsletters please click here
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism |
And if I may add, let's not forget that it's our government that has
been telling us for the past couple of weeks that terrorists are looking
to use helicopters...
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> Jford(at)indstate.edu Saturday, August 14, 2004 8:37:33 PM >>>
Jim,
I partially agree with you. The proper way to do it would have been to
coordinate with the FAA and DHS, as those agencies do spot checks (which
they do). The reporters did not do anything illegal, and were stopped
based upon racial/ethnic profiling (which is problematic at best - Tim
McVeigh wouldn't have caught ANYONE'S attention) In that, I almost
think NBC wanted them to get hassled. I agree that NBC was trying to
get a scoop. I think their scoop is that GA is keenly interested in
securing our aircraft from terrorist and other nefarious activities, and
that the "airport watch" model works better than any rent-a-cop ever
could. I believe it's useful for network television to learn the hard
way that GA isn't going to be the problem, if they will actually report
it that way rather than try to freak everybody out like they normally do
anymore. To take it a step further, I think there are remarkably few
real terrorist threats to our safety, regardless of what the government
would like us to believe. It does trouble me greatly that we're focused
on looking for ghosts over here while we're making ghosts out of our
kids (and their kids) over there. If newsrooms were funded worth a crap
by the mega-corporations that own them, then these guys would have been
able to do actual research and reporting on actual problems instead of
the "easy" story that doesn't cost anything but looks sexy. THAT's why
TV news in America sucks so bad... And... GA passed the test...
/end soapbox mode
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> BEC176(at)msn.com Friday, August 13, 2004 10:35:58 PM >>>
John, I have to disagree with you. NBC is looking to make their own
news not report it. This is a slap in the face to General Aviation.
They continue to look at the smaller aircraft that can only do
relatively minor damage. Remember this started by Hijackers taking
Large Airliners, NOT small helicoptors or Cessnas. Has NBC done a story
on how easy it is to rent a Ryder truck???? Have they done a story on
how good the security is at your local bank? Put another way, If your
dog poops on the floor do you spank your kids? My old junk pickup can
carry far more than a small aircraft and do considerable more damage.
Have you been paying attention to Iraq, some of the major damage done
there are with car bombs. Cars not even trucks. I hope those two get
some real jail time and NBC get hit with some hefty fines.
Jim Dallas
----- Original Message -----
From: John Ford
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism
I hope NBC has the guts to run the story anyway, demonstrating how it
isn't such a piece of cake to hijack a helicopter after all. What
they
did is something that probably needed to be done, assuming they run
the
story. If they don't run the story, then they have zero integrity. I
don't normally watch TV news, so if anybody sees this run (or a promo
for it) then let me know because I'd like to see how they handle it.
John (the former TV journalist)
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> sbobka(at)charter.net Friday, August 13, 2004 12:48:24 PM >>>
----- Original Message -----
From: info(at)nationalairtour.org
Subject: NBC News Practices Terrorism
Subscriber Bulletin
Here at the Aviation Foundation of America (National Air Tour) we are
concerned about the preservation and sharing of America's great
aviation
heritage. Acts of terrorism threaten our aviation heritage and we need
to guard against them.
Today we received notification of another act of "terrorism", this one
was conducted by NBC NEWS. NBC, acting as terrorists, tried to create
their own act of terror for the sake of creating yet another
anti-aviation news story.
We have received the e-mail below describing NBC's abuse of taxpayers'
money and tying up law enforcement for the sake of their own agenda.
It
appears we not only have to be watching for terrorists at our airports
but also for NBC News. In the final analysis they are attempting just
another version of "terror" themselves.
Please read the e-mail below and forward it to anyone you feel would
be
interested.
Original Message:
From: "Celeste Clark"
Subject: NATA Member SPECIAL NOTICE
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:58:03 -0400
**Special NATA Member Notice**
ATTEMPTED SECURITY BREACH AT GENERAL AVIATION AIRPORT
In an effort to show allegedly lax security procedures, NBC News
attempted to penetrate a charter helicopter operation at St. Louis
Downtown Airport on Wednesday, August 11th.
The attempt was brought to a halt, and the individuals were
apprehended.
Though this breach of security was stopped, it was indicated that NBC
and other news agencies might attempt to repeat their efforts at other
facilities around the country.
NATA urges operators to continue to be on the alert for security
breaches by news agencies "testing the waters" and, more importantly,
actual terrorist organizations or individuals intent on doing harm.
Operators nationwide are encouraged to review their security
procedures
and reinforce their security policies on a regular basis. NATA Members
should review the TSA's Security Guidelines for General Aviation
Airports
(http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1113.xml). Any
suspicious activity should be reported immediately to the Airport
Watch
Hotline at (866) GA SECURE.
The account of the August 11 incident, provided by the director of the
St. Louis Downtown Airport follows:
"Earlier today two Middle Eastern men attempted to penetrate our
security. They telephoned one of my helicopter FBOs and asked about a
charter flight. After discussion of price and directions to the
business, they arrived an hour later. When the office agent asked how
they were going to pay for the flight they produced cash. When asked
for
ID, they produced driver's licenses from two different states and they
were driving a car licensed in a third state.
Things didn't smell right so the mechanic took them into the hangar to
see the aircraft while the office person called the FBI and local
police. The helicopter they were going to fly was blocked in by other
aircraft so the mechanic was able to stall them by having to slowly
shuffle the blocking planes. Meanwhile the two men got their backpacks
and odd-shaped luggage out of their car. Soon the local police arrived
and they were hauled off to jail in handcuffs.
After a little time behind bars, the FBI verified that the two men
were
employed by NBC New York and were on assignment to get a story of how
easy it is to charter a helicopter for a terrorist attack. The men had
stayed in a local hotel and purchased box cutters, leather-man knives,
and other potential weapons at the local Wal-Mart using a credit card.
The box cutters had been hidden in the lining at the bottom of the
backpacks and the other weapons were hidden throughout their baggage.
They had audio taped the telephone conversation with Arlene and were
going to use it as part of a national news story about how easy it is
to
get information and directions to the location of the helicopter and
then hijack it to commit a terrorist attack.
I doubt they will be back at our airport soon and this is a story that
will never be seen since they were caught. A very "well-done" to my
FBO
and staff and the local FBI and police response forces. We have since
learned that we were the first airport where this had been attempted
and
NBC planned to attempt similar penetration stories around the country.
Please help me spread the word to other airports."
For additional information contact:
Beth Van Emburgh Manager, Government & Industry Affairs
bvanemburgh@nata-online.org
To unsubscribe from these newsletters please click here
==================================================nbsp; entirely
see Matronics ==================================================
">http://www.matronics.com/chat<=================================================<
">pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/s List FAQ:
http://www.matro Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search< 7-Day
Browse: http://www.matron Browse Digests: http://www.matron Live List
Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat< Archives:
http://www.matronics.com/archi Photo Share:
http://www.matronics.com/pho List Specific: http://www.matronics.com
Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/ema Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/c======================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism |
In a message dated 8/14/2004 8:39:13 PM Central Standard Time,
Jford(at)indstate.edu writes:
> I agree that NBC was trying to get a scoop.
I'm not too surprised. NBC was trying to get a story on for SWEEPS. August is
a rating period. Next SWEEPS is in November and then in February, again May.
The vicious cycle repeats 4 times each year. We might have similar attempts
by the media to this again. I spent a couple of decades working in television
news and teaching it at a private university here in Texas. This is how this
industry works. Do something sneaky and spectacular during SWEEPS, attract
viewers ... boost ratings and sell advertising based on the audience numbers.
If newsrooms were funded worth a crap by the mega-corporations that own them,
then these guys would have been able to do actual research and reporting on
actual problems instead of the "easy" story that doesn't cost anything but
looks sexy. THAT's why TV news in America sucks so bad...
Right on ... and another reason TV news is so bad is the FCC is allowing one
corporate giant to own 2 TV stations in the same town, thus they now "share"
their stories in order to be cheap. Television news is mostly entertainment
these days and sadly, couch potatoes who only get their "news" from TV have
difficulty separating the garbage they see in the news from the actual stories
that
might have some substance and ethical journalistic value. Edward R. Murrow,
we need you now more than ever.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Side Trusses and Empanage |
I've started building the Bethel Belle (jigging the workbench actually). I have
noticed a discrepancy in the side truss widths I've received from AS&S vs. the
plans. The plans call for 1"x7/8" for many of the trusses. The ones I received
from AS&S are 1"x3/4" (based on their "Modernized Pietenpol spruce kit).
I assume the world hasn't ended and someone's dealt with this before. Any words
of wisdom?
Also, the empanage wood (which appear to be the correct widths according to the
AS&S list) I would guess needs to be routed vs. capstrip along the leading edges
(nope haven't looked in the other box yet).
Thanks,
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
turtledeck curves
| Subject: | formula for arc for instrument panels and turtledeck |
curves
Man...you guys get complicated...Not being the mathmatician type I just
followed the idea in plans...In the center bottom of page one Bernie shows
how to lay out the radius for the instrument panel by useing a 12 3/4 inch
radious. I think he uses this same radius for all the upper panels....To
raise my turtle deck 1 1/2" I layed out the width and height I wanted and a
centerline on my plywood... I marked a point on the C/L 12 3/4" ( Bernie's
radius) minus the 1 1/2" that I wanted to raise the deck. Then I measured
from the pivot point to the width marks ...marked this dimension on a stick
of wood and drilled drilled two holes ,,,one for a pencil point and the
other for a nail and swung the arch. I might have had to play with the pivot
point slightly to get it touch all three point( I don't remember) ( it's
probably that old timers disease(sp) again) But for the non mathmaticians
out there this backwoods method worked out perfectly for me and the radius
of the panel LOOKS just right..... Ed G
>From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: formula for arc for instrument panels and
>turtledeck curves
>Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 11:49:05 -0500
>
>I had been trying to figure out how to lay out the instrument panels and
>turtle deck curves for a while, but couldn't figure out the radii,
>especially when there were changes in width of the arc or height of it.
>Actually, I have been wanting a formula to do this for some time.
> One of the nail benders at work last week knew the formula and he
>shared it with me. Works like a charm. it is:
>the width of the arc squared plus the height of the arc squared, divided by
>the width of the arc.
> I drilled a 1 X 2 out for a round pencil and cut a slot so it would
>fit snugly then just drove a finishing nail through the 1 X 2 the distance
>from the point to the correct radius. Works great and is free!
>Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: Thinking about you |
Pieters,
Some were worried about the Florida Pieters. Received this note from Ted this
morning. Haven't heard from Dick Gillespie.
Corky
by rly-xm01.mx.aol.com (v101_r1.2) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXM18-5ee411f50cb54;
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Re: Thinking about you
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:24:33 -0400
Thanks for the thoughts Corky.
We only had a large citrus tree blown over. Got about 80 mph winds.
I couldn't get into the airport today because of lack of electricity. We just
got it back tonight at 9 PM. The hangars looked ok. I will check the planes
tomorrow. We were very lucky that it missed just to the north. I have Dick Gillespie's
GN-1 down here. Probably better here than where it was.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: margdick(at)peganet.com ; nfn00979(at)naples.net ; flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:16 PM
Subject: Thinking about you
Florida Pieters,
Isabelle and I hope you are battened down along with your Piets and can survive
this blow without any serious effects. Give us a report if convenient. Hope
the Fisherman is not out fishing
Isabelle and Corky
Thanks for the thoughts Corky.
We only had a large citrus tree blown over.
Got about 80 mph winds.
I couldn't get into the airport today because of
lack of electricity. We just got it back tonight at 9 PM. The
hangars looked ok. I will check the planes tomorrow. We were very
lucky that it missed just to the north. I have Dick Gillespie's GN-1 down
here. Probably better here than where it was.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From:
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: margdick(at)peganet.com ; nfn00979(at)naples.net ; flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:16
PM
Subject: Thinking about you
Florida Pieters,
Isabelle and I hope you
are battened down along with your Piets and can survive this blow without=20any
serious effects. Give us a report if convenient. Hope the Fisherman is not out
fishing
Isabelle and
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
Finally talked with the Gillespies in Fort Myers and they report a few trees
down, no electricity, broken water lines. Other than that a-ok. Dick was away
buying a chain saw. Ed Gentzler reported from Tampa a-ok and Ted in Naples the
same. Couldn't check inside his hangar for lack of power. Dick Gillespie had
only sold his GN about a week ago and I understand it's in Ted's hangar so all
seems to be happy endings.
Corky and Isabelle still cleaning and clearing from the June tornado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Thanks for the update, Corky.
You better hurry up and clean up the mess from the June tornado. Looks like
Earl is heading for Louisiana.
Jack Phillips
Trying to dry out in North Carolina, where Alex,Bonnie, and Charley have
dumped over 9" of rain on my house in the last week and a half. Rainy days
make for good airplane building, though.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Florida Pieters
Pieters,
Finally talked with the Gillespies in Fort Myers and they report a few trees
down, no electricity, broken water lines. Other than that a-ok. Dick was
away buying a chain saw. Ed Gentzler reported from Tampa a-ok and Ted in
Naples the same. Couldn't check inside his hangar for lack of power. Dick
Gillespie had only sold his GN about a week ago and I understand it's in
Ted's hangar so all seems to be happy endings.
Corky and Isabelle still cleaning and clearing from the June tornado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "djv(at)imagedv.com" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hurricane Charley |
I just got word from my ex-wife who lives with my 10yr old son in Port Charlotte.
They pretty much lost the house. The roof was ripped from the walls in all
the rooms except for one. lots of water damage.... bunch of stuff missing....
probably a few blocks away sitting somewhere.
They said the winds were so strong that it was popping thier ears. My ex-wife
said she was never so terrified as she was inside the house as it all went down.
They are currently without a home and will likely move up to Georgia to live with
her mom.
My son just left from visiting for the summer out here in AZ and within days of
his return he gets to see his roof ripped from the house....
The power and energy that hurricanes have is mind boggling.
DJ
-----Original message-----
From: "Bert Conoly" bconoly(at)earthlink.net
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 20:16:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hurricane Charley
> Pieters
>
> Lets don't forget that some of our listers live in south florida (and > the eastern
seaboard) and may have been impacted by the hurricane. Has > anybody heard
from Ted Brousseau or Dick Gillespie (Naples and Ft. Myers > I think) - maybe
some others I am leaving out?
>
> If you have heard from them, please let us (me) know - I'm not gonna > call
and load up the telephone circuits.
>
> There have been a lot of people impacted whose lives will be forever > changed.
Lets remember them in our thoughts and prayers.
>
> Bert
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Hurricane Charley |
DJ,
Glad your son (and your ex-wife) made it through okay..
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> djv(at)imagedv.com Sunday, August 15, 2004 3:30:51 PM >>>
I just got word from my ex-wife who lives with my 10yr old son in Port
Charlotte. They pretty much lost the house. The roof was ripped from
the walls in all the rooms except for one. lots of water damage....
bunch of stuff missing.... probably a few blocks away sitting
somewhere.
They said the winds were so strong that it was popping thier ears. My
ex-wife said she was never so terrified as she was inside the house as
it all went down.
They are currently without a home and will likely move up to Georgia to
live with her mom.
My son just left from visiting for the summer out here in AZ and within
days of his return he gets to see his roof ripped from the house....
The power and energy that hurricanes have is mind boggling.
DJ
-----Original message-----
From: "Bert Conoly" bconoly(at)earthlink.net
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 20:16:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hurricane Charley
> Pieters
>
> Lets don't forget that some of our listers live in south florida (and
> the eastern seaboard) and may have been impacted by the hurricane.
Has > anybody heard from Ted Brousseau or Dick Gillespie (Naples and Ft.
Myers > I think) - maybe some others I am leaving out?
>
> If you have heard from them, please let us (me) know - I'm not gonna
> call and load up the telephone circuits.
>
> There have been a lot of people impacted whose lives will be forever
> changed. Lets remember them in our thoughts and prayers.
>
> Bert
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
There was an "Earl" that showed up in Louisiana many years ago that a lot
of folks haven't gotten over yet!!! Carl Vought
wrote :
>
>
>
> Thanks for the update, Corky.
>
> You better hurry up and clean up the mess from the June tornado. Looks
like
> Earl is heading for Louisiana.
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> Trying to dry out in North Carolina, where Alex,Bonnie, and Charley have
> dumped over 9" of rain on my house in the last week and a half. Rainy
days
> make for good airplane building, though.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Isablcorky(at)aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:54 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Florida Pieters
>
> Pieters,
>
> Finally talked with the Gillespies in Fort Myers and they report a few
trees
> down, no electricity, broken water lines. Other than that a-ok. Dick was
> away buying a chain saw. Ed Gentzler reported from Tampa a-ok and Ted in
> Naples the same. Couldn't check inside his hangar for lack of power. Dick
> Gillespie had only sold his GN about a week ago and I understand it's in
> Ted's hangar so all seems to be happy endings.
>
> Corky and Isabelle still cleaning and clearing from the June tornado
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Laurits Larsen" <pietlars(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Florida Pieters |
Still Here in Tavares FL,
Lucked out on Charley; we are about 40 miles NW of Orlando and had some heavy
rain and some pretty good gusts but NO DAMAGE !!
The Orlando airport had gusts to 105 mph and a fair amount of damage, so we are
very very fortunate and GRATEFUL for well being.
Lou Larsen
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 12:01 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Florida Pieters
Thanks for the update, Corky.
You better hurry up and clean up the mess from the June tornado. Looks like
Earl is heading for Louisiana.
Jack Phillips
Trying to dry out in North Carolina, where Alex,Bonnie, and Charley have dumped
over 9" of rain on my house in the last week and a half. Rainy days make for
good airplane building, though.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:54 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Florida Pieters
Pieters,
Finally talked with the Gillespies in Fort Myers and they report a few trees
down, no electricity, broken water lines. Other than that a-ok. Dick was away
buying a chain saw. Ed Gentzler reported from Tampa a-ok and Ted in Naples the
same. Couldn't check inside his hangar for lack of power. Dick Gillespie had
only sold his GN about a week ago and I understand it's in Ted's hangar so all
seems to be happy endings.
Corky and Isabelle still cleaning and clearing from the June tornado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | OT - NBC News Practices Terrorism |
Understand in no uncertain terms that to a television broadcaster, you are
NOT the consumer, you are the product. The advertisers are their consumers.
Don't kid yourself otherwise. All the news, sports, movies, reality TV,
whatever, are vehicles to get you to watch. They'd be thrilled not to have
to spend any money on those shows you tune in to, but they have to compete
with something.
I gave up watching TV news in the summer of '99. While the networks were
interviewing John-John Kennedy's third grade teacher after he died, none of
the stations I saw happened to report the minor inconvenience that there
was a general strike in Jamaica and 9 people were dead.
If you want real news, turn off the TV and listen to BBC.
Jim Ash
>In a message dated 8/14/2004 8:39:13 PM Central Standard Time,
>Jford(at)indstate.edu writes:
>
>>I agree that NBC was trying to get a scoop.
>
>
>I'm not too surprised. NBC was trying to get a story on for SWEEPS. August
>is a rating period. Next SWEEPS is in November and then in February, again
>May. The vicious cycle repeats 4 times each year. We might have similar
>attempts by the media to this again. I spent a couple of decades working
>in television news and teaching it at a private university here in Texas.
>This is how this industry works. Do something sneaky and spectacular
>during SWEEPS, attract viewers ... boost ratings and sell advertising
>based on the audience numbers.
>
>If newsrooms were funded worth a crap by the mega-corporations that own
>them, then these guys would have been able to do actual research and
>reporting on actual problems instead of the "easy" story that doesn't cost
>anything but looks sexy. THAT's why TV news in America sucks so bad...
>
>Right on ... and another reason TV news is so bad is the FCC is allowing
>one corporate giant to own 2 TV stations in the same town, thus they now
>"share" their stories in order to be cheap. Television news is mostly
>entertainment these days and sadly, couch potatoes who only get their
>"news" from TV have difficulty separating the garbage they see in the news
>from the actual stories that might have some substance and ethical
>journalistic value. Edward R. Murrow, we need you now more than ever.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Greetings from SW Florida |
I just wanted to report that all the Pietenpols of SW Florida are in good
shape. So are the owners. I talked to Joe Fedelem and Dick Gillespie today
and all is well. Dick still doesn't have electricity. Joe and I went one
day without it. You can't believe how hot and humid it is down here right
after a hurricane goes through. But, I am not complaining. We were so
happy to have only lost one big citrus tree that it didn't really matter.
We only got 75 mph winds here. A little more than I am used to getting in
the face while fly a Piet.
Now, it is back to making sawdust.
Ted Brousseau
Naples, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: OT - NBC News Practices Terrorism |
AMEN to that!
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> ashcan(at)earthlink.net 8/15/2004 9:26:01 PM >>>
If you want real news, turn off the TV and listen to BBC.
Jim Ash
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.net" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Side Trusses and Empanage |
The longerons and many of the braces in the fuselage trusses are 1" sq. according
to the plans. I've heard of people using as small as 3/4" sq. though. I personally
used 1" X 7/8" since I had to plane my boards. The empenage can be
built up using cap strip on the leading edges or routing as you mention. I built
up my horiz. stab but then used a dado blade in the table saw for much of
the other tail section.
Either way works.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Side Trusses and Empanage |
Stacy
Reading the 1-19-33 Pietenpol plans the struts and braces #1, #7 to #14 are 3/4"
x 1" (Basically the back half of the fuselage) and #2 to #6 are 7/8" x 1" (See
note on Drawing 1). Looking at the GN-1 plans (what a lot of people call
the Modernized Pietenpol, when they should just refer to it as the GN-1), the
struts are listed as 1"x1" forward of the back seat and 3/4"x1" from there back.
Are you sure you don't have enough of the larger size? Try looking for extra
1"x1" stock. Not sure where Aircraft Spruce got their cut list for the Pietenpol
Air Camper, but it should be at least similar to the GN-1 kit they have
been selling for years. Hopefully you don't have a kit for the GN-1 because they
are slightly different. You did remember to order some extra wood didn't
you? I didn't and boy was it a bummer to have to pay shipping on a 7 foot piece
of wood.
The tail pieces can be routed or capstriped. I found the tips to be easier to
build by using capstrips and the leading and trailing edges by router method.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: Stacy Clark
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 1:50 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Side Trusses and Empanage
I've started building the Bethel Belle (jigging the workbench actually). I have
noticed a discrepancy in the side truss widths I've received from AS&S vs.
the plans. The plans call for 1"x7/8" for many of the trusses. The ones I received
from AS&S are 1"x3/4" (based on their "Modernized Pietenpol spruce kit).
I assume the world hasn't ended and someone's dealt with this before. Any
words of wisdom?
Also, the empanage wood (which appear to be the correct widths according to the
AS&S list) I would guess needs to be routed vs. capstrip along the leading
edges (nope haven't looked in the other box yet).
Thanks,
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Side Trusses and Empanage |
Thanks Tom. Dado blade...good idea! I think I'll go that route as my table
saw is on the way up here now. Just finished jigging the entire workbench
today. I was able to fit all the jigs on two 4'x8''s. Not that I planned
it that way mind you, I just lucked out.
Another question about the empennage (for everyone): Do the gussets go all
the way to the outer edge as the plans "actually" show and then rounded out
to match the leading and trailing edges - or - do they tuck behind the
pre-routed edges? I can envision reasons for both ways (cosmetic vs. more
area glued).
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hidden Agenda |
Hi All
We just got back home and I'm wading thru the messages. One small correction here
Chris. A School Bus driver along with all commercial truck drivers has to
pass a physical similar to the 3rd class FAA every two years. In addition drivers
have to be in a pool to be randomly selected for drug and alcholol testing
at any time while employed. Drivers also have to undergo periodic US DOT training
and are subject to work hours limits similar to commercial pilots.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hidden Agenda
Don't forget about my medicalless buddy who drove 60 kids on a school bus everyday
with nine bypasses on his heart yet could not fly a 1200 lb airplane by
himself....
I say if a medical has been denied in the past then the guy can still fly but
with no passengers. He would be LESS of a risk then than he would if he drove
a car on public highways...
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hidden Agenda
Leroy B,
Just having stayed 9 days at Oshkosh it's a miracle you have 2 cents left to
give us.
As a greatgrandfather many times with a valid driver's license I would deem
it a pleasure to ride with your mother.
If you can't see the hidden beauro agenda then no explanation is possible.
YKW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Javier Cruz <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx> |
Hi Friends
You can use any cad program for this, print the curves 1 to 1 size on
any printer and use it, was easy
Saludos
Javier Cruz
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Side Trusses and Empanage |
Chris,
I haven't checked all the wood yet, been getting set up on the workbench. I do
have all of AS&S's lists for the GN-1, Modernized, and standard Piet. Their
invoice shows MOD PIETENPOL. It would be nice if I did have enough to plane some
7/8" but I highly doubt it. I talked with one of the A&P's that I share the
hanger with and his best guess is that 3/4" vs 7/8" wouldn't make a big difference...though
I'd certainly be more comfortable with the sides as per plans
(I'll be using an A65). Yes I did order some extra wood but more along the lines
of what Mike Cuy did to his Piet (higher turtle deck and rounded bottom).
BTW, I controlled at SAC Exec (as well as SQL and SJC) before going "North to Alaska."
Home's actually Manteca when I'm not up here "herding cats" (bush pilots)
:-)
Stacy
The Bethel Belle Project
Bethel, Alaska
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Side Trusses and Empanage |
<000901c48347$bb1e0540$7aaaa1d1@DJQ7LV21>
Go to;
mykitplane.com
In the picture gallery you will see quite a few Piets
The empannage is featured in mine, Clif Dawson,
Walt Evans, Jim Markle and Gary McNeal has
199 detail pics with the tail a few pages in. There's
others as well. There are others with pics in various
places. Check the archives.
Clif
<stacy@unicom-alaska.com>>
> Another question about the empennage (for everyone): Do the gussets go
all
> the way to the outer edge as the plans "actually" show and then rounded
out
> to match the leading and trailing edges - or - do they tuck behind the
> pre-routed edges? I can envision reasons for both ways (cosmetic vs. more
> area glued).
>
> Stacy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | phone # for Dennis Hall? |
Does anyone have a phone number for Dennis Hall. He's the guy that built and hangars
"the Blue Heron" Piet at Broadhead?
Thanks,
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: phone # for Dennis Hall? |
Well, I have a phone number here someplace....can't find it right now...
If that can't be found, you might try:
Dennis Hall
PO Box 54
Brodhead, WI 53520 0054
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: phone # for Dennis Hall?
Does anyone have a phone number for Dennis Hall. He's the guy that built and
hangars "the Blue Heron" Piet at Broadhead?
Thanks,
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Build Your Own Pietenpol shirts |
BYOP shirts were mailed this morning by US Priority Mail with Delivery
Confirmation to those who placed orders for them. Sorry for the delay. I appreciate
your patience while I was away attending to my mom's funeral.
I still have a small quantity of BYOP shirts in adult Medium, Large and Extra
Large. The children's sizes are all gone.
Sterling Brooks
www.byop.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | T-shirts/Randy Bruce |
Pieters (and Polers!!),
I finally got a call from Randy through some sort of jury-rigged phone line. He
and his boat are OK after the eye of the hurricane went right over him at the
Sanford marina. He spent the night securing boats for others and trying to keep
marina property safe. The adrenaline didn't quit flowing until early the next
morning when he collapsed into a heap. Because of the debris and recovery efforts,
he hasn't been able to get out to his hangar to see what damage was done
there.
His concern right now is about Alan Wise. The Orlando Executive Airport where Alan's
Piet is hangared, is just a field of rubble. We might have lost one of the
icons of our little group. Alan bought the Piet from -??- and has been flying
it for about 27 years. It's probably been seen by more people at more fly-ins
than any other and Alan has been a tireless ambassador for the design. It will
really be a shame if it's gone. Still nothing from GN-1 pilot and Piet builder
Ted Brusseau from Naples.
There are still T-shirts available but you'll have to mail Randy because of the
phone situation. Here's your chance to get a shirt that was designed in Florida,
printed in California, driven to Brodhead and has now survived a major hurricane!
Randy's address is:
Randy Bruce
P.O. Box 2353
Sanford, FL 32772
The total cost is still $16 and he gets them out to you within a couple of hours
after receiving your order.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
turtledeck curves
| Subject: | formula for arc for instrument panels and |
turtledeck curves
You guys are amazing math wizzes at this formula stuff, but let me let the
common man in on a simple way to figure this out. Using my
white posterboard from the drug store or Wal Mart, I just folded it in
half and made a crease. Remember on Valentie's Day at school, our first
grade teacher showed us how to make perfect hearts out of construction
paper ? Same concept. I just marked my two longeron distance on the
poster board, marked a center line, folded on that line and then just made
pencil arcs to the height I wanted (1" higher than plans for the fire wall,
front and rear pits, and the turtledeck door.) that pleased my eye. I
cut out the arc and opened the fold and transferred this pattern to my 1/8"
plywood and cut w/ a sabre saw.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: T-shirts/Randy Bruce |
Just called Alan Wise......he's fine and the hanger next to his is gone....his
is fine.....
VERY good news......
JM
----- Original Message -----
From: LAWRENCE WILLIAMS
To: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-shirts/Randy Bruce
Pieters (and Polers!!),
I finally got a call from Randy through some sort of jury-rigged phone line.
He and his boat are OK after the eye of the hurricane went right over him at the
Sanford marina. He spent the night securing boats for others and trying to
keep marina property safe. The adrenaline didn't quit flowing until early the
next morning when he collapsed into a heap. Because of the debris and recovery
efforts, he hasn't been able to get out to his hangar to see what damage was
done there.
His concern right now is about Alan Wise. The Orlando Executive Airport where
Alan's Piet is hangared, is just a field of rubble. We might have lost one of
the icons of our little group. Alan bought the Piet from -??- and has been flying
it for about 27 years. It's probably been seen by more people at more fly-ins
than any other and Alan has been a tireless ambassador for the design. It
will really be a shame if it's gone. Still nothing from GN-1 pilot and Piet builder
Ted Brusseau from Naples.
There are still T-shirts available but you'll have to mail Randy because of the
phone situation. Here's your chance to get a shirt that was designed in Florida,
printed in California, driven to Brodhead and has now survived a major hurricane!
Randy's address is:
Randy Bruce
P.O. Box 2353
Sanford, FL 32772
The total cost is still $16 and he gets them out to you within a couple of hours
after receiving your order.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: T-shirts/Randy Bruce |
Yee Haw....I would have hated to have seen Alan Wise's venerable ole Piet
trashed by a hurricane..Sorry about the hanger next door...But Soooo glad
Alan and his Piet are ok...So far so good on not loseing any Piets to the
hurricane...not all Florida pilots were that lucky.....
>From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-shirts/Randy Bruce
>Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:02:51 -0500
>
>Just called Alan Wise......he's fine and the hanger next to his is
>gone....his is fine.....
>
>VERY good news......
>
>JM
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: LAWRENCE WILLIAMS
> To: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:07 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-shirts/Randy Bruce
>
>
> Pieters (and Polers!!),
>
> I finally got a call from Randy through some sort of jury-rigged phone
>line. He and his boat are OK after the eye of the hurricane went right over
>him at the Sanford marina. He spent the night securing boats for others and
>trying to keep marina property safe. The adrenaline didn't quit flowing
>until early the next morning when he collapsed into a heap. Because of the
>debris and recovery efforts, he hasn't been able to get out to his hangar
>to see what damage was done there.
>
> His concern right now is about Alan Wise. The Orlando Executive Airport
>where Alan's Piet is hangared, is just a field of rubble. We might have
>lost one of the icons of our little group. Alan bought the Piet from -??-
>and has been flying it for about 27 years. It's probably been seen by more
>people at more fly-ins than any other and Alan has been a tireless
>ambassador for the design. It will really be a shame if it's gone. Still
>nothing from GN-1 pilot and Piet builder Ted Brusseau from Naples.
>
> There are still T-shirts available but you'll have to mail Randy because
>of the phone situation. Here's your chance to get a shirt that was designed
>in Florida, printed in California, driven to Brodhead and has now survived
>a major hurricane!
>
> Randy's address is:
>
> Randy Bruce
> P.O. Box 2353
> Sanford, FL 32772
>
> The total cost is still $16 and he gets them out to you within a couple
>of hours after receiving your order.
>
> Larry
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Corky, are you in the sites? |
Corky,
I looked at the projected weather map and see one of the next 'cains heading straight
at New Orleans. What's the story?
Better batten down Your hatches.!
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Corky, are you in the sites? |
Walt,
I'm so far from nawlins, 330sm, that they call us yankees up here in
Shreespote. No worry, they usually play out by the time they get here, about 230
from
the Gulf, but plenty of needed rain. Thanks though for the advisory.
Corky and Isabelle drinking mint julips before our dinner of Isabelle's baked
beans and HOT sausage. Could life be better? Yes, just get rid of ABC CBS NBC
NAACP ACLU FAA AOPA EAA FOX CNN. Just junk your TV and the whole world would
be so much better off. Oh, I forgot another ridance, " THE new york times"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net> |
Hi Folks,
>
> I am a new member to the list, so be gentle with me, OK? :)
>
> I had the opportunity and the pleasure of showing my complete, uncovered, Piet
at the Fed Ex aviation Trade Show, here in Anchorage, last May 15 and 16.
We had a turnout of 17,000 people. I was surrounded by everything from Ultralites
to F-16s. I was present with my plane all during the event and did not
hear even one word of negative feedback. Let that be encouragement to all new
builders who are worried someone might not like our qenuine piece of aviation
heritage.
>
> As for questions: Who out there can give me some feel for how many hours a
day I can comfortably fly my Piet ? My dream is to fly from Anchorage to Brodhead
in July of 2006. My son and I were there in July of 1993 and I need to
catch-up on all of the Bratwurst that I have missed.
>
> Mike Luther
> N1953M
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Anchorage Piet |
Mike,
I hope you're making the holes for the feet big enough for bunny boots!
I learned to fly at Merrill Field in 1990 and miss the place horribly,
now that I'm in Indiana. People here have no clue what real traffic is.
:0 Can't wait to see your machine at Brodhead in 2006...
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> luther(at)gci.net 8/16/2004 6:42:51 PM >>>
Hi Folks,
>
> I am a new member to the list, so be gentle with me, OK? :)
>
> I had the opportunity and the pleasure of showing my complete,
uncovered, Piet at the Fed Ex aviation Trade Show, here in Anchorage,
last May 15 and 16. We had a turnout of 17,000 people. I was
surrounded by everything from Ultralites to F-16s. I was present with
my plane all during the event and did not hear even one word of negative
feedback. Let that be encouragement to all new builders who are worried
someone might not like our qenuine piece of aviation heritage.
>
> As for questions: Who out there can give me some feel for how many
hours a day I can comfortably fly my Piet ? My dream is to fly from
Anchorage to Brodhead in July of 2006. My son and I were there in
July of 1993 and I need to catch-up on all of the Bratwurst that I have
missed.
>
> Mike Luther
> N1953M
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <TWINBOOM(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: T-shirts/Randy Bruce |
Hey Karry,
Thanks for the update on Randy. I received my shirts a couple of weeks ago.
They look REALLY NICE!!!!!!!!! Here is a shot of them.
Doug & Elizabeth Blackburn
www.inlandsloperebels.com
W W's Conversion Manual 3202, 5782
www.flycorvair.com
----- Original Message -----
From: LAWRENCE WILLIAMS
To: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 6:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-shirts/Randy Bruce
Pieters (and Polers!!),
I finally got a call from Randy through some sort of jury-rigged phone line.
He and his boat are OK after the eye of the hurricane went right over him at the
Sanford marina. He spent the night securing boats for others and trying to
keep marina property safe. The adrenaline didn't quit flowing until early the
next morning when he collapsed into a heap. Because of the debris and recovery
efforts, he hasn't been able to get out to his hangar to see what damage was
done there.
His concern right now is about Alan Wise. The Orlando Executive Airport where
Alan's Piet is hangared, is just a field of rubble. We might have lost one of
the icons of our little group. Alan bought the Piet from -??- and has been flying
it for about 27 years. It's probably been seen by more people at more fly-ins
than any other and Alan has been a tireless ambassador for the design. It
will really be a shame if it's gone. Still nothing from GN-1 pilot and Piet builder
Ted Brusseau from Naples.
There are still T-shirts available but you'll have to mail Randy because of the
phone situation. Here's your chance to get a shirt that was designed in Florida,
printed in California, driven to Brodhead and has now survived a major hurricane!
Randy's address is:
Randy Bruce
P.O. Box 2353
Sanford, FL 32772
The total cost is still $16 and he gets them out to you within a couple of hours
after receiving your order.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.net" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Side Trusses and Empanage |
Stacey,
For what it's worth, the dado blade method is a bit tricky when you come to the
end of the piece you're cutting. If you're taking off 3/4" for instance, you
have 3/4" of dado blade exposed and only raised out of your table about 3/16"
inch at the top of the blade arc. That leaves a big opening for the end of the
piece to be pushed into with your push-stick (don't ask how I know). If you
have a router with a router table, that might give you better results. The
dado blade works well, it's just a bit tricky on the ends.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Anchorage Piet |
Hey neighbor...
Stacy Clark
The Bethel Belle Project
Bethel, AK
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | long cross country in an Air Camper |
Mike Luther---that is really great that you were able to display your plane
at the Fed Ex Trade Show ! As for how long you could comfortably fly your
Piet, that depends on a few things. I carry 17 gallons with a 4.3 gph
fuel burn so I normally go for 2 hour legs. The longest I've gone was
2:20 and by then you are getting stiff and can only change your seating
position so many times. I carry a red plastic port a thing for when
mother nature calls, but that can be trouble if you are in hot-day
turbulence or have a nose heavy or light situation. (it sure beats
wasting time finding an airport to land at though) The worst part about
thermals turn you into a wrestler with the stick and power. One minute you
are going up at 500 fpm with reduced throttle and the next minute you can't
climb with full power and are going down at 200 fpm. The constant banging
around in that kind of weather makes my endurance shorter, esp. with
headwinds. Bottled water in the seat helps along with some snacks like
peanut butter crackers or pretzels & hard candies. (the in flight meal
service in a Piet plain sucks:)) (but the in flight movies are
beautiful !)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | long cross country in an Air Camper |
Mike,
Sounds like you have better in-flight meals than most major air carriers.
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Anchorage Piet |
Beautiful! Think I'll go out to the airplane factory (garage) and start
making sawdust.
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: long cross country in an Air Camper |
Mike C, I am wondering which engine you have in your
Pietenpol and if your plane, cockpit dimension wise,
is "per plans"??? Thanks in advance.
--- Michael D Cuy wrote:
> Mike Luther---that is really great that you were
> able to display your plane
> at the Fed Ex Trade Show ! As for how long you
> could comfortably fly your
> Piet, that depends on a few things. I carry 17
> gallons with a 4.3 gph
> fuel burn so I normally go for 2 hour legs. The
> longest I've gone was
> 2:20 and by then you are getting stiff and can only
> change your seating
> position so many times. I carry a red plastic port
> a thing for when
> mother nature calls, but that can be trouble if you
> are in hot-day
> turbulence or have a nose heavy or light situation.
> (it sure beats
> wasting time finding an airport to land at though)
> The worst part about
> x-country in a Piet for me are the hot, windy, bumpy
> days where the
> thermals turn you into a wrestler with the stick and
> power. One minute you
> are going up at 500 fpm with reduced throttle and
> the next minute you can't
> climb with full power and are going down at 200 fpm.
> The constant banging
> around in that kind of weather makes my endurance
> shorter, esp. with
> headwinds. Bottled water in the seat helps along
> with some snacks like
> peanut butter crackers or pretzels & hard candies.
> (the in flight meal
> service in a Piet plain sucks:)) (but the in
> flight movies are
> beautiful !)
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Piper landing gear and wing struts? |
Up here in Bethel we have more than our fair share of Cubs and Super Cubs in pieces
(and other aircraft for that matter as well). One of the A&P's I share the
hanger with has offered to give me (as in free) a set of Cub wing struts (inspected).
He's also where I'm getting my A65 from. Anyways, the struts got
me to thinking about the Piper landing gear. What are the pros and cons of going
Piper? There seems to be a lot of benefit going that route as in my case
the Belle will be taking off and landing quite a bit over a five month period
when complete...
That brings up another subject: The missive that I always include at the bottom
of my posts...
Some of you already know why I'm building the Bethel Belle and some of you don't.
In a nutshell I'm doing this all for charity -- it's a promise I made to
a dying eleven year-old boy a few years ago and I intend to keep it. I have noticed
lately however that I haven't gotten the responses from many of the usuals
that I once did, and I wonder if that might not be the reason. I know things
like that sometimes put me off as well. And though I may come across as a
nut (got news for ya, look at what you fly...) I can assure you I am not -- just
single-minded. So, for the record, no, I'm not a bible-thumping christian
(though I surely believe in God because by rights I should be living in a refrigerator
box somewhere). I drink, I smoke, I swear, I should be divorced, etc.
Maybe that'll put you at ease and I'll get those responses I need to help
me get this project done on time (leaving Bethel May 2006). To those that have
responded, thank you.
Stacy Clark
The Bethel Belle Project
Bethel, Alaska
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piper landing gear and wing struts? |
Stacy
I cant speak for anyone else, but I havent responded to some of your posts because
your siuation geographically leaves me feeling unqualified, since I can only
imagine some of the considerations you may have to build into your project.
I am at 900 ft elev. I have flown alot in the western mountains but never in
a single engine, and know enough to be nervous about potential conditions you
can run into.
If I feel that I have something to contribute I will always be willing throw it
in.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Stacy Clark
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Up here in Bethel we have more than our fair share of Cubs and Super Cubs in
pieces (and other aircraft for that matter as well). One of the A&P's I share
the hanger with has offered to give me (as in free) a set of Cub wing struts
(inspected). He's also where I'm getting my A65 from. Anyways, the struts got
me to thinking about the Piper landing gear. What are the pros and cons of
going Piper? There seems to be a lot of benefit going that route as in my case
the Belle will be taking off and landing quite a bit over a five month period
when complete...
That brings up another subject: The missive that I always include at the bottom
of my posts...
Some of you already know why I'm building the Bethel Belle and some of you don't.
In a nutshell I'm doing this all for charity -- it's a promise I made to
a dying eleven year-old boy a few years ago and I intend to keep it. I have
noticed lately however that I haven't gotten the responses from many of the usuals
that I once did, and I wonder if that might not be the reason. I know things
like that sometimes put me off as well. And though I may come across as
a nut (got news for ya, look at what you fly...) I can assure you I am not --
just single-minded. So, for the record, no, I'm not a bible-thumping christian
(though I surely believe in God because by rights I should be living in a refrigerator
box somewhere). I drink, I smoke, I swear, I should be divorced,
etc. Maybe that'll put you at ease and I'll get those responses I need to help
me get this project done on time (leaving Bethel May 2006). To those that have
responded, thank you.
Stacy Clark
The Bethel Belle Project
Bethel, Alaska
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OT - NBC News Practices Terrorism |
BBC is really slanted and the wrong way....
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT - NBC News Practices Terrorism
>
> AMEN to that!
>
> John Ford
> john(at)indstate.edu
> 812-237-8542
>
>
> >>> ashcan(at)earthlink.net 8/15/2004 9:26:01 PM >>>
>
> If you want real news, turn off the TV and listen to BBC.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
<01a301c48348$89cddaf0$0600a8c0@laptop>
| Subject: | Re: Hidden Agenda |
Dick,
This was ten years ago and I KNOW he drove a bus. Saw him many times in it smiling....
chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hidden Agenda
Hi All
We just got back home and I'm wading thru the messages. One small correction
here Chris. A School Bus driver along with all commercial truck drivers has
to pass a physical similar to the 3rd class FAA every two years. In addition
drivers have to be in a pool to be randomly selected for drug and alcholol testing
at any time while employed. Drivers also have to undergo periodic US DOT
training and are subject to work hours limits similar to commercial pilots.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hidden Agenda
Don't forget about my medicalless buddy who drove 60 kids on a school bus everyday
with nine bypasses on his heart yet could not fly a 1200 lb airplane by
himself....
I say if a medical has been denied in the past then the guy can still fly but
with no passengers. He would be LESS of a risk then than he would if he drove
a car on public highways...
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hidden Agenda
Leroy B,
Just having stayed 9 days at Oshkosh it's a miracle you have 2 cents left
to give us.
As a greatgrandfather many times with a valid driver's license I would deem
it a pleasure to ride with your mother.
If you can't see the hidden beauro agenda then no explanation is possible.
YKW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piper landing gear and wing struts? |
Stacy, the cub struts should work but you will have to cut them down in length.
I believe it was cub gear that Grega used on the GN-1. If you look close you can
see that the rear gear mount on a GN-1 is not the same location as it is on
a Piet. You may have to modify the gear legs to fit a pit fuselage but I bet
you could get it to work.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: Stacy Clark
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Up here in Bethel we have more than our fair share of Cubs and Super Cubs in
pieces (and other aircraft for that matter as well). One of the A&P's I share
the hanger with has offered to give me (as in free) a set of Cub wing struts
(inspected). He's also where I'm getting my A65 from. Anyways, the struts got
me to thinking about the Piper landing gear. What are the pros and cons of
going Piper? There seems to be a lot of benefit going that route as in my case
the Belle will be taking off and landing quite a bit over a five month period
when complete...
That brings up another subject: The missive that I always include at the bottom
of my posts...
Some of you already know why I'm building the Bethel Belle and some of you don't.
In a nutshell I'm doing this all for charity -- it's a promise I made to
a dying eleven year-old boy a few years ago and I intend to keep it. I have
noticed lately however that I haven't gotten the responses from many of the usuals
that I once did, and I wonder if that might not be the reason. I know things
like that sometimes put me off as well. And though I may come across as
a nut (got news for ya, look at what you fly...) I can assure you I am not --
just single-minded. So, for the record, no, I'm not a bible-thumping christian
(though I surely believe in God because by rights I should be living in a refrigerator
box somewhere). I drink, I smoke, I swear, I should be divorced,
etc. Maybe that'll put you at ease and I'll get those responses I need to help
me get this project done on time (leaving Bethel May 2006). To those that have
responded, thank you.
Stacy Clark
The Bethel Belle Project
Bethel, Alaska
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piper landing gear and wing struts? |
Dick,
Thanks for the reply. I'm actually not building the aircraft for here in Alaska.
My goal is to fly the Belle to Washington D.C. via all the lower 48 states.
When I originally started developing this project about a year ago now (taking
it from planning to action in other words) it was for a well known childrens
hospital in the southeast. A few years prior I had heard one of their radiothons
and a letter from a dying boy to his mom...and you might say hit me where
I lived. Anyway, over this past year I've been working with them trying to
get their official nod of approval for the flight. Our litiginous society being
what it is however, the final word came down about a month ago that they would
no longer allow "any" point to point fund rasiers because of insurance (read:
public relations) concerns. That meant planes, cars, motorcycles, boats,
and even bikes. But oh well, life goes on. So, now I'm doing this flight for
any charity the donors desire and the flight will be "officially unaffiliated"
with any charity. There's obviously far more to it than that, but I won't
get into that here. So, going back to the original question, what's your opinion
on using Cub struts and landing gear?
Stacy :-)
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Piet building tips |
Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
I just have to mention a great source of building tips to those who may be
new on this list or to those who may have forgotten. That source is Mike
Cuy's video. I just pulled it out again this past weekend (for the
umpteenth time) so I could find the segment where Mike helps his wife into
the passenger 'pit, so I could show my buddy Charlie how you get passengers
into the front hole the easy way. True, Mike's plane has the spoked
"motorcycle" tires to step on which gives a little additional lift, but the
technique is basically the same.
Anyway, there are so many little details of construction, tips, and just
generally "yeah, I'll have to remember that" type of things in the video
that make it a most worthwhile expenditure and addition to your homebuilding
library. The first segment is a walkie-talk-around of the airplane as Mike
shows you all the fine points of the bird, and the last segment is a
detailed account of the construction. Very good documentation of his
project and very educational and inspiring. And of course when it's raining
outside and you can't work on your airplane, or haven't been in the shop for
months and need some encouragement, you just fast forward to about 1800 on
the counter and go make some smoke with Mike as he terrorizes the
neighborhood with low passes at high speeds with smoke pouring out the back!
I'm thinking of hosting a "Pietenpol Night" for one of our EAA 35
meetings, where I just give rides in the afternoon and let folks look all
over the airplane, then we play Mike's video for the evening's program.
Parts of it, at least.
PS on the inflight meals, we down here in Texas have a great advantage,
called "breakfast tacos". They are individually wrapped in aluminum foil,
you can get whatever you want inside them, can be eaten with one hand, make
a complete and nutritious balanced meal (because the FDA says so ;o), you
can ball the foil up when you're done, you can eat however much you want and
re-wrap the rest for later, and there's usually no mess to clean up
afterward. Unless you get those juicy tacos filled with stuff that drips.
But anyway, my point is that they are the perfect in-flight food for
traveling. They don't get hurt if you squoosh them, aren't too bad even
when cold (but can be kept warm in cold weather by just carrying them inside
your jacket). Now if I could just figure out how to make hot coffee that
was the consistency of jelly so it wouldn't spill, could be squeezed from a
tube, and was not a diuretic-!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Larry-- I have a 65 hp Cont. engine with no electric, no radio, no lights,
no instrument in the front seat, and a 632 lb empty weight. My cockpit is
per plans--the short or 1933 Improved Air Camper plans.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: long cross country in an Air Camper |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
Anyone want to comment on the general usefulness of having elevator trim
in one's Piet? I've seen several kinds used, wehereas BHP didn't
specify. Is trim just generally unnecessary or futile in something as
light as a Piet? I know that the Murphy Maverick doesn't have it nor do
a lot of other very light kits. But I have fantasies of doing long
mechanism used it might affect construction of the tail (which I want to
start in the next couple of months).
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: long cross country in an Air Camper |
I am not putting trim in mine. I just got back from a 5 day weekend of
flying my cousins 1946 BC-12D T-craft off his grass strip. It has elevator
trim but I never used in once. From 55mph on final to 105 in cruise the
trim never changed.
I think that aircraft as light as these are can do without trim.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: long cross country in an Air Camper
>
> Anyone want to comment on the general usefulness of having elevator trim
> in one's Piet? I've seen several kinds used, wehereas BHP didn't
> specify. Is trim just generally unnecessary or futile in something as
> light as a Piet? I know that the Murphy Maverick doesn't have it nor do
> a lot of other very light kits. But I have fantasies of doing long
> x-countries and any little comfort might help, and depending on the
> mechanism used it might affect construction of the tail (which I want to
> start in the next couple of months).
>
> Mark Hodgson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
>Anyone want to comment on the general usefulness of having elevator trim
>in one's Piet?
I haven't done any X-C flying in my Piet yet, but can tell you what my ferry
pilot told me about it after flying a bunch of hours in it. He said Corky
had really put a nifty trim setup on it, very useful and effective. I know
Mike Cuy's Piet also has trim and he uses it to good advantage too.
My ferry pilot also said his leg got tired after a while in the air and
suggested rudder trim, but then again the rudder in this airplane is
installed exactly on centerline with no offset and it may be that a tad of
offset may eliminate that easier than a rudder trim mechanism or even a
bendable piece of metal on the trailing edge of the rudder.
Mike C.? Steve E.? Chuck "Mr. America"? What say about trim?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: long cross country in an Air Camper |
I had a 46 tcraft and used the trim all of the time, It worked well and lessoned
the stick pressures nicely, I think rudder trim would be very usefull also,
every plane I have flown needs pedal pressure one way or the other even in straight
flight.
Del
DJ Vegh wrote:
I am not putting trim in mine. I just got back from a 5 day weekend of
flying my cousins 1946 BC-12D T-craft off his grass strip. It has elevator
trim but I never used in once. From 55mph on final to 105 in cruise the
trim never changed.
I think that aircraft as light as these are can do without trim.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hodgson, Mark O"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: long cross country in an Air Camper
>
> Anyone want to comment on the general usefulness of having elevator trim
> in one's Piet? I've seen several kinds used, wehereas BHP didn't
> specify. Is trim just generally unnecessary or futile in something as
> light as a Piet? I know that the Murphy Maverick doesn't have it nor do
> a lot of other very light kits. But I have fantasies of doing long
> x-countries and any little comfort might help, and depending on the
> mechanism used it might affect construction of the tail (which I want to
> start in the next couple of months).
>
> Mark Hodgson
>
>
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: long cross country in an Air Camper |
With the exception of the rare use of a 100% symetrical airfoil (like on a
late pitts), every airplane will only be in trim at one airspeed for its CG
position. The 100% symetrical airfoil has no camber, hence no center of
pressure (CP) travel with changes in angle of attack (which is determined
directly by airspeed). As you add more and more camber, the fore and aft
center of pressure travel on the wing between high and low AOAs gets greater
and greater.
The Taylorcraft uses the NACA 23012 airfoil and does not have as much CP
travel as does the Piet's airfoil which has a tremendous amount of camber.
An added trim system would make the aircraft more pilot friendly throughout
a large airspeed (AOA) range.
However, as the first paragraph says, every airplane will only be in trim at
one airspeed for its CG position. If you plan to fly your piet at the same
CG location and at the same speed day in and day out, then the rigging of
the decalage angle between the wing and the horizontal stabilizer will take
care of the trim. You set these angles at time of rigging, tweaking them
throughout the testing period until you are satisfied the plane can fly
hands off at your favorite power setting and AOA.
But if you plan to fly the aircraft long hours at many different, wide
ranging CGs, then a trim system is in order.
There is nothing worse than a long flight in an airplane that you can't
trim.
I believe that Mike C. has a simple bungie arrangement to give the stick a
little pull one way or another. This is used in many aircraft types and is
sufficient.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: long cross country in an Air Camper
>
> I am not putting trim in mine. I just got back from a 5 day weekend of
> flying my cousins 1946 BC-12D T-craft off his grass strip. It has
elevator
> trim but I never used in once. From 55mph on final to 105 in cruise the
> trim never changed.
>
> I think that aircraft as light as these are can do without trim.
>
> DJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:25 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: long cross country in an Air Camper
>
>
> >
> > Anyone want to comment on the general usefulness of having elevator trim
> > in one's Piet? I've seen several kinds used, wehereas BHP didn't
> > specify. Is trim just generally unnecessary or futile in something as
> > light as a Piet? I know that the Murphy Maverick doesn't have it nor do
> > a lot of other very light kits. But I have fantasies of doing long
> > x-countries and any little comfort might help, and depending on the
> > mechanism used it might affect construction of the tail (which I want to
> > start in the next couple of months).
> >
> > Mark Hodgson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | to trim or not to trim |
<002201c4853d$b24c4a60$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com>
If you have a nose tank in your Piet rather than a wing tank, the CG
changes will be much more noticeable as you burn off that
weight in the nose. (esp. if you are like me at 200 lbs.) Someone had
told me or I had read where Bernard installed trim
(oh gosh, really ?) on one of his planes by either using bungees or
springs like Chris mentioned back to some tabs he welded to
his elevator bellcrank. That is what I did and used Home Depot springs
and cables that go to a lever underneath my seat.
The lever puts tension on either the up or down tabs to lessen the stick
pressures. I really like having the trim and use it alot.
My only problem with it is that it doesn't stay in position (I devised a
kind of friction lock for it that is pretty lame) but all that would
take is a few detents or notches and I've just never taken the time to do
that. I know of a few builders like Jim Markle and I think Jack Phillips
who are (might be Jack ?) incorporating trim on their Air Campers.
Mike C.
(trim is real handy on those long x-countries when you are trying to pee in
a bottle and just flying with your feet, man !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
So, Mike, your fuselage is the same length as the
Model A powered design? I am considering buying Howard
Henderson's old plane which is in Virginia. It has the
Model A. I talked to Chuck at Brodhead and he was sort
of soured on the Model A. He changed his out in due
course to the 65. So, I assume he has the "plans"
fuselage as well.
Thanks for your help. I am just an observer at this
time. I am so busy in my business that I can't see
getting into the building process in my spare time,
which I have none of. I have also been bit by the
Cessna 195 decease, again, and this time it has stuck
with me. I have restored a T Craft BC12D and a
TriPacer. I enjoy this stuff. But I also want to go
flying.
Having learned to fly in a Champ back in '66, I love
that 65 engine. If you have the stock fuselage, how
did you allow for the lighter engine?
Thanks again.
--- Michael D Cuy wrote:
> Larry-- I have a 65 hp Cont. engine with no
> electric, no radio, no lights,
> no instrument in the front seat, and a 632 lb empty
> weight. My cockpit is
> per plans--the short or 1933 Improved Air Camper
> plans.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
<008401c484ef$a4d020d0$2baaa1d1@DJQ7LV21>
| Subject: | Re: Piper landing gear and wing struts? |
Stacy and Chris
I belive the whole purpose for the creation of the Grega was that it could use
many of the J-3 parts and make the building process easier.
In short I think the gear legs are one of those parts used.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Stacy Clark
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:50 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Dick,
Thanks for the reply. I'm actually not building the aircraft for here in Alaska.
My goal is to fly the Belle to Washington D.C. via all the lower 48 states.
When I originally started developing this project about a year ago now (taking
it from planning to action in other words) it was for a well known childrens
hospital in the southeast. A few years prior I had heard one of their radiothons
and a letter from a dying boy to his mom...and you might say hit me where
I lived. Anyway, over this past year I've been working with them trying
to get their official nod of approval for the flight. Our litiginous society
being what it is however, the final word came down about a month ago that they
would no longer allow "any" point to point fund rasiers because of insurance
(read: public relations) concerns. That meant planes, cars, motorcycles, boats,
and even bikes. But oh well, life goes on. So, now I'm doing this flight
for any charity the donors desire and the flight will be "officially unaffiliated"
with any charity. There's obviously far more to it than that, but I won't
get into that here. So, going back to the original question, what's your opinion
on using Cub struts and landing gear?
Stacy :-)
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: to trim or not to trim |
If you look in the matronics photoshare for pictures I posted after
Brodhead '03, I believe I took a shot or two of an interesting trim
system on a red piet with no cowling which used an extra airfoil just
over the tailwheel and below the elevator, which has a separate linkage
to the cockpit. Whew, how's that for a run-on sentence...
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:46:56 PM
>>>
If you have a nose tank in your Piet rather than a wing tank, the CG
changes will be much more noticeable as you burn off that
weight in the nose. (esp. if you are like me at 200 lbs.) Someone
had
told me or I had read where Bernard installed trim
(oh gosh, really ?) on one of his planes by either using bungees or
springs like Chris mentioned back to some tabs he welded to
his elevator bellcrank. That is what I did and used Home Depot
springs
and cables that go to a lever underneath my seat.
The lever puts tension on either the up or down tabs to lessen the
stick
pressures. I really like having the trim and use it alot.
My only problem with it is that it doesn't stay in position (I devised
a
kind of friction lock for it that is pretty lame) but all that would
take is a few detents or notches and I've just never taken the time to
do
that. I know of a few builders like Jim Markle and I think Jack
Phillips
who are (might be Jack ?) incorporating trim on their Air Campers.
Mike C.
(trim is real handy on those long x-countries when you are trying to
pee in
a bottle and just flying with your feet, man !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Larry---you can put a Model A on the long fuselage too---have seen many of
them, but mine is
the 1933 version. It is about 9" shorter than the 1966 long
version. Howard's old plane is the
short version like I have and is a real steal for the price he's
asking. That would be one sweet airplane
to have if you want a Ford Piet. Howard and Grant MacLaren built that
plane together and are Ford
experts, bar none so that engine was done right and should last a long
time. John Strutman used to fly
Howard's plane for him from St. Louis to Brodhead for several years in a
row and he would give rides and it
performed pretty good with two people in it from what I recall.
Seems to me that Chuck Gantzer has the long or 1966 fuselage. I'm 99% sure
of that.
Several Cont. builders have or are making their motor mounts longer than
the plans show to keep the CG in
the proper range with the short fuselage. Frank Pavliga had to add 9 or
11 lbs. of lead to his motor mount on his
long fuse 65 Cont. Air Camper since as I recall he didn't make the mount
longer. Since I weigh a fair amount I made
my motor mount 1" longer than plans and slanted the wing back 4" aft of the
cabane struts being vertical to get my CG right.
To do it over again I would have made the mount 3" longer and that way I
would not have had to move the wing back quite so far.
Brian Kenny in Ontario made his short fuse 65 Air Camper motor mount NINE
inches longer than plans and his cabane struts remain
vertical with no slant back to correct for CG. The plane flies fine.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
The max I've been up is about 1:15 and the very slight fwd stick that I
have to hold does get annoying after awhile. I find that with holding the
pressure you kind of lose your touch in that arm. Have to change hands for
awhile and shake off the other. I would like to add trim if I didn't have
to cut anything.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: trim
>
> >Anyone want to comment on the general usefulness of having elevator trim
> >in one's Piet?
>
> I haven't done any X-C flying in my Piet yet, but can tell you what my
ferry
> pilot told me about it after flying a bunch of hours in it. He said Corky
> had really put a nifty trim setup on it, very useful and effective. I
know
> Mike Cuy's Piet also has trim and he uses it to good advantage too.
>
> My ferry pilot also said his leg got tired after a while in the air and
> suggested rudder trim, but then again the rudder in this airplane is
> installed exactly on centerline with no offset and it may be that a tad of
> offset may eliminate that easier than a rudder trim mechanism or even a
> bendable piece of metal on the trailing edge of the rudder.
>
> Mike C.? Steve E.? Chuck "Mr. America"? What say about trim?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks for that. I need to contact Joe Santana and get
some idea from him on the condition of the covering,
which I have no idea what Howard used, whether he went
synthetic or what??? I did, however, what some idea,
which you have given me, that if the Model A craps
out, that a 65 Cont CAN be installed in it's place.
Larry
--- Michael D Cuy wrote:
> Larry---you can put a Model A on the long fuselage
> too---have seen many of
> them, but mine is
> the 1933 version. It is about 9" shorter than the
> 1966 long
> version. Howard's old plane is the
> short version like I have and is a real steal for
> the price he's
> asking. That would be one sweet airplane
> to have if you want a Ford Piet. Howard and Grant
> MacLaren built that
> plane together and are Ford
> experts, bar none so that engine was done right and
> should last a long
> time. John Strutman used to fly
> Howard's plane for him from St. Louis to Brodhead
> for several years in a
> row and he would give rides and it
> performed pretty good with two people in it from
> what I recall.
>
> Seems to me that Chuck Gantzer has the long or 1966
> fuselage. I'm 99% sure
> of that.
>
> Several Cont. builders have or are making their
> motor mounts longer than
> the plans show to keep the CG in
> the proper range with the short fuselage. Frank
> Pavliga had to add 9 or
> 11 lbs. of lead to his motor mount on his
> long fuse 65 Cont. Air Camper since as I recall he
> didn't make the mount
> longer. Since I weigh a fair amount I made
> my motor mount 1" longer than plans and slanted the
> wing back 4" aft of the
> cabane struts being vertical to get my CG right.
> To do it over again I would have made the mount 3"
> longer and that way I
> would not have had to move the wing back quite so
> far.
> Brian Kenny in Ontario made his short fuse 65 Air
> Camper motor mount NINE
> inches longer than plans and his cabane struts
> remain
> vertical with no slant back to correct for CG.
> The plane flies fine.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol
plans. We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2487080314&category=26441&sspagename=WDVW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mike(at)mking.us> |
| Subject: | Piper landing gear and wing struts? |
Stacy and Chris,
My Grega has Cub gear as well as other Cub parts. I am a
believer in Cub
gear...Lord knows it has been given a workout (bounces)
Good luck.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Navratil
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Stacy and Chris
I belive the whole purpose for the creation of the Grega was that
it could use many of the J-3 parts and make the building process
easier.
In short I think the gear legs are one of those parts used.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Stacy <mailto:stacy@unicom-alaska.com> Clark
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Dick,
Thanks for the reply. I'm actually not building the aircraft for
here in Alaska. My goal is to fly the Belle to Washington D.C.
via all the lower 48 states. When I originally started
developing this project about a year ago now (taking it from
planning to action in other words) it was for a well known
childrens hospital in the southeast. A few years prior I had
heard one of their radiothons and a letter from a dying boy to
his mom...and you might say hit me where I lived. Anyway, over
this past year I've been working with them trying to get their
official nod of approval for the flight. Our litiginous society
being what it is however, the final word came down about a month
ago that they would no longer allow "any" point to point fund
rasiers because of insurance (read: public relations) concerns.
That meant planes, cars, motorcycles, boats, and even bikes. But
oh well, life goes on. So, now I'm doing this flight for any
charity the donors desire and the flight will be "officially
unaffiliated" with any charity. There's obviously far more to it
than that, but I won't get into that here. So, going back to the
original question, what's your opinion on using Cub struts and
landing gear?
Stacy :-)
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the
impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
I just sent him my nasty email
ebay will yank his ad if they were notified and investigated..... it's strictly
prohibited to sell reproductions of any copyrighted items on ebay.
everyone else should send this guy an email
I sent him this:
_________
You do realize you are selling pirated copies of the Piet plans don't you?
Do you also know that it is illegal to do such things?
Check this out if you feel up for some reading during your free time.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html pay particular attention to section 506 "Criminal Offenses"
also looky here:
http://www.cybercrime.gov/ip.html
The Dept. of Justice has a website with a link that allows persons to report violations
of intellectual property and internet crimes.
I'll be checking back on this ad tomorrow and if I see it is still up and running
I will be submitting my complaint as will about 100 other Pietenpol builders/owners
who all know about your activity through the Pietenpol email list.
While I'm at it I'll notify ebay as well. They don't take kindly to illegal use
of thier website.
you'd do very well to remove the ad and forget you ever did sell illegal plans.
The consequences are not worth it. I promise you that much.
23:59 remaining
_________
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol plans.
We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item2487080314&category26441&sspagenameWDVW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
wow this guy is a piece of work... he's selling copied plans of all kinds of things...
RCM model plans (RCM Magazine would stick thier attorneys on him if they
knew about it I'm sure)
take a look at his feedback and prior auctions... all of them 100% illegal
http://feedback.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws1/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&useridmgp60
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol plans.
We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item2487080314&category26441&sspagenameWDVW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
I sent a note to eBay......
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
I just sent him my nasty email
ebay will yank his ad if they were notified and investigated..... it's strictly
prohibited to sell reproductions of any copyrighted items on ebay.
everyone else should send this guy an email
I sent him this:
_________
You do realize you are selling pirated copies of the Piet plans don't you?
Do you also know that it is illegal to do such things?
Check this out if you feel up for some reading during your free time.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html pay particular attention to section 506 "Criminal Offenses"
also looky here:
http://www.cybercrime.gov/ip.html
The Dept. of Justice has a website with a link that allows persons to report
violations of intellectual property and internet crimes.
I'll be checking back on this ad tomorrow and if I see it is still up and running
I will be submitting my complaint as will about 100 other Pietenpol builders/owners
who all know about your activity through the Pietenpol email list.
While I'm at it I'll notify ebay as well. They don't take kindly to illegal
use of thier website.
you'd do very well to remove the ad and forget you ever did sell illegal plans.
The consequences are not worth it. I promise you that much.
23:59 remaining
_________
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol plans.
We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item2487080314&category26441&sspagenameWDVW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
Are you sure the plans are copyrighted?
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
I just sent him my nasty email
ebay will yank his ad if they were notified and investigated..... it's strictly
prohibited to sell reproductions of any copyrighted items on ebay.
everyone else should send this guy an email
I sent him this:
_________
You do realize you are selling pirated copies of the Piet plans don't you?
Do you also know that it is illegal to do such things?
Check this out if you feel up for some reading during your free time.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html pay particular attention to section 506 "Criminal Offenses"
also looky here:
http://www.cybercrime.gov/ip.html
The Dept. of Justice has a website with a link that allows persons to report
violations of intellectual property and internet crimes.
I'll be checking back on this ad tomorrow and if I see it is still up and running
I will be submitting my complaint as will about 100 other Pietenpol builders/owners
who all know about your activity through the Pietenpol email list.
While I'm at it I'll notify ebay as well. They don't take kindly to illegal
use of thier website.
you'd do very well to remove the ad and forget you ever did sell illegal plans.
The consequences are not worth it. I promise you that much.
23:59 remaining
_________
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol plans.
We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item2487080314&category26441&sspagenameWDVW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com> |
<008c01c4856a$87e86b00$6401a8c0@FAMILY>
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
Sorry guys, been thru this with Uncle Willie (he sells scores of photocopied
model plans and makes hundreds or thousands of bucks a month doing it) and
it's not likely that eBay will do diddly-squat... remember, they make money
for every auction... unless perhaps we get the copyright holders themselves
to complain or even send a letter from a lawyer.
OTOH, maybe a lot of folks complaining at once might work?
Here's what the eBay user agreement says
(http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/user-agreement.html):
-----------------------
5.4 VeRO Program. eBay's Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) program works to
ensure that listed items do not infringe upon the copyright, trademark or
other rights of third parties. VeRO program participants and other rights
owners can report listings offering infringing items, and request that such
items be removed. VeRO program participants and other rights owners may have
limited access to some of your personal information as described in the
Privacy Policy at (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/privacy-policy.html).
14. Legal Compliance.
You shall comply with all applicable domestic and international laws,
statutes, ordinances and regulations regarding your use of our service and
your bidding on, listing, purchase, solicitation of offers to purchase, and
sale of items.
-----------------------
http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/contact-rights-owner.html
Reporting Listings When You Are Not The Rights Owner
Unfortunately, if you are not an intellectual property rights owner you
cannot report listings as potentially infringing through eBay's VeRO
Program.
However, you can still help by getting in touch with the rights owner and
encouraging them to contact us.
------------------------
In short, eBay doesn't give a hoot about copyright fraud, unless they get a
complaint from the Pietenpol family themselves. Even then, don't expect them
to care. Several model designers and magazines contacted them about Uncle
Willie selling copies of their plans, with ZERO action taken by eBay. eBay
is arguably a party to illegal activity if you ask me, but they can afford
to be with all the $$$ they make on the tens of thousands of illegal items
posted every day.
I don't beleive that anyone who does this either "doesn't realize" it's
wrong, nor do they ever care. $1.50 in effort = $35 profit, with everyone
else doing all the work and little fear of consequences (in this world
anyway.) Sad but true.
Sorry guys, it stinks to high heaven, but that's what it looks like to me.
-M
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
Subject: [piet] Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
I sent a note to eBay......
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
I just sent him my nasty email
ebay will yank his ad if they were notified and investigated..... it's
strictly prohibited to sell reproductions of any copyrighted items on ebay.
everyone else should send this guy an email
I sent him this:
_________
You do realize you are selling pirated copies of the Piet plans don't you?
Do you also know that it is illegal to do such things?
Check this out if you feel up for some reading during your free time.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html pay particular attention to
section 506 "Criminal Offenses"
also looky here:
http://www.cybercrime.gov/ip.html
The Dept. of Justice has a website with a link that allows persons to report
violations of intellectual property and internet crimes.
I'll be checking back on this ad tomorrow and if I see it is still up and
running I will be submitting my complaint as will about 100 other Pietenpol
builders/owners who all know about your activity through the Pietenpol email
list.
While I'm at it I'll notify ebay as well. They don't take kindly to illegal
use of thier website.
you'd do very well to remove the ad and forget you ever did sell illegal
plans. The consequences are not worth it. I promise you that much.
23:59 remaining
_________
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol plans.
We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=248708031
4&category=26441&sspagename=WDVW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
Keep in mind that BHP was not the author of the plans most of us use. BHP was
the designer of the airplane but Orrin Hoopman authored the plans and he was the
original holder of the copyright which by default goes to the author of a copyrightable
work.
The original plans were first published, for the sake of consideration for copyright,
after 1923 and before 1968. At the time of first publication in the thirties,
the Copyright Act of 1909 was in force. Under that law, if a work was
published "with notice" of copyright, the copyright term was a flat 28 years
from publication. If Orrin, or Bernie, first published the plans without that
notice, the plans immediately entered the public domain. In either case, the
copyright for the plans is very likely now expired.
The Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act of 1998, which extended copyrights to the
author's life plus seventy years, only applied to copyrights then in effect,
so would not apply to Pietenpol plans.
I'm willing to bet that, even though it is really bad form to sell the copied plans
and nobody except some Belize expatriots would try to build an airplane from
such a set of plans, eBay's lawyers have already cleared the sale.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
I just sent him my nasty email
ebay will yank his ad if they were notified and investigated..... it's strictly
prohibited to sell reproductions of any copyrighted items on ebay.
everyone else should send this guy an email
I sent him this:
_________
You do realize you are selling pirated copies of the Piet plans don't you?
Do you also know that it is illegal to do such things?
Check this out if you feel up for some reading during your free time.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html pay particular attention to section 506 "Criminal Offenses"
also looky here:
http://www.cybercrime.gov/ip.html
The Dept. of Justice has a website with a link that allows persons to report
violations of intellectual property and internet crimes.
I'll be checking back on this ad tomorrow and if I see it is still up and running
I will be submitting my complaint as will about 100 other Pietenpol builders/owners
who all know about your activity through the Pietenpol email list.
While I'm at it I'll notify ebay as well. They don't take kindly to illegal
use of thier website.
you'd do very well to remove the ad and forget you ever did sell illegal plans.
The consequences are not worth it. I promise you that much.
23:59 remaining
_________
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol plans.
We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item2487080314&category26441&sspagenameWDVW
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
If you look at the reprints, their is no copyright. Don't don't they run
out ?
And no, i have nothing to do with this man. And I have not bought plans from
him. Is he the same man that sales other plans from the EAA reprints?
Howdy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dave rowe <rowed044(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
In Canada, we could call the better business bureau, can the same not be
done in the US? As far as I am concerned this is fraud and copyright
infringement.
Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
> Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol
> plans. We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
>
> Mike C.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2487080314&category=26441&sspagename=WDVW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
I sent this guy a warning day before yesterday. I also asked him what his
physical address was so I could notify the feds about his copyright violations.
This guy stinks. Anyone putting beans (or in my case tacos) on the table and
earning a living by selling their own creative/intellectual material deserves
to be protected (as in the case of the Pietenpol clan).
Please dump on this guy in a big way and send complaints to EBAY advising
they have a pirate using their service.
Taco Loco
Central Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
<001d01c48575$9e612150$0201a8c0@Joe2>
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
After looking at his other auctions I noticed he was selling copies of RCM Magazine
model airplane plans. RCM has a notice on their website warning against
such plans for sale.
I contacted the editor-in-chief there just a couple hours ago. He said that their
plans are protected under legal copyright and he hand it off to the proper
department to pursue it.
Of course this does nothing for the sale of the Piet plans but it sounds like maybe
this guy will be paid a visit by some high priced magazine attorneys....
if nothing else but to just give him a scare.
With 300+ feedbacks and selling plans at an average price of about $20, this guy
has scammed rightful owners of a minimum of $6,000.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Keep in mind that BHP was not the author of the plans most of us use. BHP was
the designer of the airplane but Orrin Hoopman authored the plans and he was
the original holder of the copyright which by default goes to the author of a
copyrightable work.
The original plans were first published, for the sake of consideration for copyright,
after 1923 and before 1968. At the time of first publication in the
thirties, the Copyright Act of 1909 was in force. Under that law, if a work was
published "with notice" of copyright, the copyright term was a flat 28 years
from publication. If Orrin, or Bernie, first published the plans without that
notice, the plans immediately entered the public domain. In either case, the
copyright for the plans is very likely now expired.
The Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act of 1998, which extended copyrights to
the author's life plus seventy years, only applied to copyrights then in effect,
so would not apply to Pietenpol plans.
I'm willing to bet that, even though it is really bad form to sell the copied
plans and nobody except some Belize expatriots would try to build an airplane
from such a set of plans, eBay's lawyers have already cleared the sale.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
I just sent him my nasty email
ebay will yank his ad if they were notified and investigated..... it's strictly
prohibited to sell reproductions of any copyrighted items on ebay.
everyone else should send this guy an email
I sent him this:
_________
You do realize you are selling pirated copies of the Piet plans don't you?
Do you also know that it is illegal to do such things?
Check this out if you feel up for some reading during your free time.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html pay particular attention to section 506 "Criminal Offenses"
also looky here:
http://www.cybercrime.gov/ip.html
The Dept. of Justice has a website with a link that allows persons to report
violations of intellectual property and internet crimes.
I'll be checking back on this ad tomorrow and if I see it is still up and running
I will be submitting my complaint as will about 100 other Pietenpol builders/owners
who all know about your activity through the Pietenpol email list.
While I'm at it I'll notify ebay as well. They don't take kindly to illegal
use of thier website.
you'd do very well to remove the ad and forget you ever did sell illegal plans.
The consequences are not worth it. I promise you that much.
23:59 remaining
_________
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol plans.
We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item2487080314&category26441&sspagenameWDVW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
One of you might point out his liability if some one builds from these plans and
has a problem.
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
wow this guy is a piece of work... he's selling copied plans of all kinds of
things... RCM model plans (RCM Magazine would stick thier attorneys on him if
they knew about it I'm sure)
take a look at his feedback and prior auctions... all of them 100% illegal
http://feedback.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws1/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&useridmgp60
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol plans.
We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item2487080314&category26441&sspagenameWDVW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question from eBay Member |
At first I wondered why someone would make copies of something they had no
right to copy.....and then sell those copies. Frankly, I had hoped that you
had some kind of right legally sell copies of the plans. Do you? The
Pietenpol family definitely does....
Have you considered though that someone might actually build a plane from
these plans??? and possibly have a problem with that plane???....YOU'LL then
have a problem far greater than any ethical issues you've obviously learned
to live with......
Your moral fiber and lack of ethics won't mean much when someone has a
problem with a plane that is built from plans that can be traced back to
you.....
If the moral issue is lost on you, think about your legal liability when
someone is injured in a plane built to plans they bought from you.....
Do you REALLY want that involvement?
---------------
Dear dfwplt,
All the Pientepol plans I have for sale are copies of the originals. Hope
this helps.
To respond to this eBay member go to:
http://contact.ebay.com/ws1/ebayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserEmail&requested=mgp60&frm=-1&iid=-1&de=off&redirect=0&contactsubmit=Contact+Member
Thank you,
mgp60
---------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Ok, I brought it up.... |
so I'll (hopefully) close it in some fashion.....se we can get back to the FUN
stuff!!!! :-)
My note (cc'd to the list) will likely fall on deaf ears, but you never know.
That was a very good point Cy brought up.
Jim in Plano.....just finished sanding the FINAL wing tip bow.....definitely better
way for me to use my energy than even THINKING about these low life peckerwoods
that sell copies of things they don't own!!! aaarrrggghhh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piper landing gear and wing struts? |
Stacy,
Used (narrow )inspected Piper Cub struts: Yes
Used Piper Cub gear: No
A65 Continental: Certifiable, Yes, Jack-leg, No
Missive: Attitude, YES YES Enthusiasm YES YES YES
Schedule: 20+ hours/week nonstop for two years with no "Grand Piano" quality.
We know that you can do it!!!!
Mike Luther
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | Re: long cross country in an Air Camper |
Mike,
You answered my question perfectly, thanks. I got my Pilots' license after I
started my Piet and I have never been up in one, so, that was why I asked.
Mike Luther
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Let's all report the plan-stealing scum on eBay! |
Here's where we can report this guy. If everyone goes there and does it,
maybe it'll red-flag his account and they'll take some action. If not,
you've lost a couple of minutes and at least tried to help out the Pietenpol
family in return for their continuing support of this community.
First, go here (you might have to log into your eBay account first):
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/unauthorized-copies.html
Then click "Report listing violations or problems with another eBay member."
(near the bottom of the page)
Then copy and past in the following auction numbers:
2487080314 , 2487080313 , 5915043024 , 5915043023 , 3694217879
Click the "Send" button and off it goes. Maybe it'll help... I have doubts
but who knows. If they get a few dozen similar reports then perhaps it'll
have an effect.
Feel free to look up "Uncle Willie" and report him too... he's a far bigger
offender in fact.
-Mike
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: [in] Thank You for Your Report (Community Watch) |
(KMM127825781V88783L0KM)
1.3 SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID Subject contains a unique ID
Here's the email I got in response to my report.
-Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: eBay Customer Support <rswebhelp(at)ebay.com>
Subject: Thank You for Your Report (Community Watch)
(KMM127825781V88783L0KM)
> We will review the listing(s) you have reported for violations of our
> Unauthorized Copies Policy. We often rely on members like you to bring
> such violations to our attention.
>
> In light of eBay's privacy policy, we cannot share with you any action
> taken by eBay with respect to this listing. If we determine that the
> listing violates this policy, we will remove the listing or suspend the
> seller. Account suspensions are usually reserved for those sellers that
> repeatedly disregard policy.
>
> If the item you reported does not appear on its face to violate this
> policy, we may refer it to the intellectual property rights owner for
> review. If the rights owner has a good faith belief that the item is
> infringing, they may choose to send eBay a formal request to remove the
> listing. For more information on eBays cooperation with rights owners,
> please visit:
>
> http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/programs-vero-ov.html
>
> For more information on eBay's Unauthorized Copies Policy, please visit:
>
> http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/unauthorized-copies.html
>
> Thank you for your report.
>
> Regards,
>
> The eBay Community Watch Team
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
The only effective way I can see is to fill up his feedback list with
strong negatives but that would entail buying the plans to get
access. I believe there's a limit to the number of negatives, at
which point he could be kicked out of ebay. I don't have time
right now to find the info. It's there on ebay somewhere.
Clif
"NOT HAPPY!! These are stolen copies of the originals! " would
get the attention of those in charge I think.
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol plans.
We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item2487080314&category26441&sspagenameWDVW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: long cross country in an Air Camper |
Well said, Chris.
I owned a J-3 Cub for many years, and even though it is nearly as light as a Piet,
its trim was very necessary. Elevator pressures on a Cub, with its USA35B
airfoil (nearly as much camber as a Piet) got uncomfortably high gliding at 50
mph, if the trim was set for its 75 mph cruise.
I have installed a trim system on my Pietenpol very similar to the one that Mike
Cuy installed on his. Neat, internal (no visible trim tabs), lightweight, and
esily adjusted.
Jack Phillips
>
> From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
> Date: 2004/08/18 Wed PM 01:35:53 EDT
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: long cross country in an Air Camper
>
>
> With the exception of the rare use of a 100% symetrical airfoil (like on a
> late pitts), every airplane will only be in trim at one airspeed for its CG
> position. The 100% symetrical airfoil has no camber, hence no center of
> pressure (CP) travel with changes in angle of attack (which is determined
> directly by airspeed). As you add more and more camber, the fore and aft
> center of pressure travel on the wing between high and low AOAs gets greater
> and greater.
>
> The Taylorcraft uses the NACA 23012 airfoil and does not have as much CP
> travel as does the Piet's airfoil which has a tremendous amount of camber.
> An added trim system would make the aircraft more pilot friendly throughout
> a large airspeed (AOA) range.
>
> However, as the first paragraph says, every airplane will only be in trim at
> one airspeed for its CG position. If you plan to fly your piet at the same
> CG location and at the same speed day in and day out, then the rigging of
> the decalage angle between the wing and the horizontal stabilizer will take
> care of the trim. You set these angles at time of rigging, tweaking them
> throughout the testing period until you are satisfied the plane can fly
> hands off at your favorite power setting and AOA.
>
> But if you plan to fly the aircraft long hours at many different, wide
> ranging CGs, then a trim system is in order.
>
> There is nothing worse than a long flight in an airplane that you can't
> trim.
>
> I believe that Mike C. has a simple bungie arrangement to give the stick a
> little pull one way or another. This is used in many aircraft types and is
> sufficient.
>
> Chris Bobka
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:09 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: long cross country in an Air Camper
>
>
> >
> > I am not putting trim in mine. I just got back from a 5 day weekend of
> > flying my cousins 1946 BC-12D T-craft off his grass strip. It has
> elevator
> > trim but I never used in once. From 55mph on final to 105 in cruise the
> > trim never changed.
> >
> > I think that aircraft as light as these are can do without trim.
> >
> > DJ
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:25 AM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: long cross country in an Air Camper
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > > Anyone want to comment on the general usefulness of having elevator trim
> > > in one's Piet? I've seen several kinds used, wehereas BHP didn't
> > > specify. Is trim just generally unnecessary or futile in something as
> > > light as a Piet? I know that the Murphy Maverick doesn't have it nor do
> > > a lot of other very light kits. But I have fantasies of doing long
> > > x-countries and any little comfort might help, and depending on the
> > > mechanism used it might affect construction of the tail (which I want to
> > > start in the next couple of months).
> > >
> > > Mark Hodgson
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAtAhUAhSLEMBKgz5ucf48wkbAEJZOpGRECFFSsLmT9qbKCFwAO53I+VQbRVK0i
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Trim, J-3 gear etc. |
I built up a small area on the trailing edges of my elevators and rudder
so that I can add bendable trim tabs if I need to. The holes are already
there, all I will have to do is open the fabric and bolt them on. With
no fus. tank, and the passenger on the cg, once set (for cruise) I
hopefully shouldn't have to readjust them. If I intended to use J-3
gear, Cont. 65 etc. (ie, a modernized Piet) from the get go, I would
suggest the Grega GN-1. John Grega re designed the Piet around these
components and has already figured every thing out for you. for
instance engine mt. length. Also the plans look very good. , The
Pietenpol plans are any thing but good. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Associated Press and Emachineshop.com |
a few weeks back I was contacted by a Technical Writer from the Associated Press.
He was writing a story on Emachineshop.com. Somehow he managed to come across
my name and contacted me. He interviewed me in several emails.
The article was published yesterday. He stopped short of mentioning "Pietenpol"
but did say that they made parts for my 1929 era airplane.
Neat story.... and great place to get lasercut and/or CNC'd parts
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmplstory&u/ap/20040818/ap_on_hi_te/online_manufacturing_6
DJ
_
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | More important things |
Pieters,
Now that you have resolved all those tech problems such as; trim for the
piet, W&B, and legal stuff such as : the guy selling stolen Pietenpol plans on
Ebay, why don't we settle down and do some serious planning for next season.
Maybe a Tour Texas, a Tour Ohio, a Cajun Tour(WOW) or better a big get together
at
Party Cove (Yeah).
Hurry, Corky just had another birthday and his account is getting low.
Corky in beautiful La. The coolest August in memory.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Associated Press and Emachineshop.com |
Wasn't there an issue of material that they used? Did they have carbon steel cold
rolled or 4130 normmalized?
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:16 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Associated Press and Emachineshop.com
a few weeks back I was contacted by a Technical Writer from the Associated Press.
He was writing a story on Emachineshop.com. Somehow he managed to come
across my name and contacted me. He interviewed me in several emails.
The article was published yesterday. He stopped short of mentioning "Pietenpol"
but did say that they made parts for my 1929 era airplane.
Neat story.... and great place to get lasercut and/or CNC'd parts
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmplstory&u/ap/20040818/ap_on_hi_te/online_manufacturing_6
DJ
_
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mike(at)mking.us> |
| Subject: | More important things |
Congratulations Corky and many more birthdays to come.
I like the idea of organizing a trip to LA. for some Cajun fun
and flying.
Mike
Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: More important things
Pieters,
Now that you have resolved all those tech problems such as; trim
for the piet, W&B, and legal stuff such as : the guy selling
stolen Pietenpol plans on Ebay, why don't we settle down and do
some serious planning for next season. Maybe a Tour Texas, a Tour
Ohio, a Cajun Tour(WOW) or better a big get together at Party
Cove (Yeah).
Hurry, Corky just had another birthday and his account is getting
low.
Corky in beautiful La. The coolest August in memory.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | First "Head Scratcher" |
To all, thanks to all for the replies on the Piper struts/gear use. Looks like
the struts are in and the gear's out (of course if the gear ends up being free,
well...).
Now for the next round...
While laying out the inside lines of the fuselage for the trusses, etc. I discovered
that the wood I have differs far greater than I had thought (AS&S "Modernized
Pietenpol," not their "GN-1" although lists are the same regarding fuselage).
As a side note, their standard Piet kit does not have 7/8" x 1" trusses
either. This is what I have:
4 pc. 1" x 1" x 15' longerons
12 pc. 1" x1" x 3' side truss
16 pc. 3/4" x 1" x 3' side truss
2 pc. 1" x 1-3/8" x 2' side truss
10 pc. 1" x 1" x 2' top and bottom front truss
6 pc. 1" x 1" x 2' top and bottom rear truss
6 pc. 3/4" x 1" x 3' top and bottom rear truss
2 pc. 1/2" x 1" x 3' seat back as original
2 pc. 1/4" x 1" x 15' side stringers
7 pc. 1/4" x 1" x 6' turtle deck stringer
4 pc. 3/4" x 1" x 3' seats, front and back
Looking over the list I can pretty much see what goes where. And as the saying
goes, "when life gives you lemons..." Anyway, the main question I have is "how"
does the 1' x 1-3/8" x 2' side truss go? My guess is that it's for the front
(most forward) vertical side truss and would go 1" width toward the side and
1-3/8" width toward the front. Am I correct in thinking this would stiffen
up the front for the A65 and addresses the more direct torque on the fuselage
vs. the Model A?
Also, though I have seen that the gussets (in pictures) are laid on both the inside
and outside of the fuselage sides, it would seem the inside ones would be
in the way of the attachment points of top and bottom trusses (I.e.: top and
bottom trusses not directly glued to the longerons because the gussets are in
the way?). The inside gussets I have seen didn't seem to be cutout for this and
were just rectangles like the outdside ones. This just seems structurally
wrong...(am I right?).
Third question...Are the less than 1" wide trusses laid even with the 1" longerons,
i.e.: 1" width matches the 1" width of the longerons - or - are they shimmed
and the narrower widths go perpendicular to the 1" width of the longerons.
(Boy, I hope that's clear, it sure is hard to describe).
As to where in hell AS&S got these dimensions from beats me but it's what I got.
Paid far more than the "normal" price too for the privledge of having the wrong
stuff - though at least it's wider and not thinner stock.
Thanks,
Stacy
P.S. Mike L., I have no doubt I can do it...it's my ride out of here! :-) The
missive's more about the kids and what they and the hospital do every single day
rather than my own cheerleading.
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edwin Johnson <elj(at)shreve.net> |
| Subject: | long cross country in an Air Camper |
Hello Mark,
>
> Anyone want to comment on the general usefulness of having elevator trim
> in one's Piet? I've seen several kinds used, wehereas BHP didn't
> specify. Is trim just generally unnecessary or futile in something as
> light as a Piet? I know that the Murphy Maverick doesn't have it nor do
This might depend on your use of the airplane. For example, if you are
just going to do local and pattern work and never take the plane anywhere
else, then trim would not be as useful since stick loads for landing and
takeoff are rather light.
However, in my opinion, if you are going to do any sort of cross country
work or trips in the Pietenpol, then the trim is very necessary.
The controls on the Piet are very light, so it's easy to hold the plane
level. But folding a sectional with both hands, eating a snack, moving an
object in the cockpit, or anything that requires both hands could possibly
lead to a dangerous situation with the nose going either up or down and
your trying to correct it while performing some other task. Consider the
possibility of having to let go of everything while at a low altitude (do
Piets ever get very high?) that suddenly started flying out the cockpit!
If you look at the W&B with fuel burn from a nose tank, you will notice a
considerable change in CG. From my experience it definitely isn't fun to
have to hold any airplane level for a long period of time and leads to
fatigue. So from both a safety and fatigue point of view, the trim is a
much needed item.
Now yaw is yet another area. As someone has already pointed out, most
certified airplanes are built to be in trim (yaw) at cruise speed and some
specific CG, probably around the center of the envelope. Ideally the Piet
should be configured or trimmed with a rudder tab to allow the plane to
fly straight with no rudder pressures at cruise speed. In climb, descent,
or landings the pressures needed can easily be done without trim. But
again, having to hold rudder pressure during cruise is a chore.
I think Mike C. used a spring bungee type of elevator trim. Corky (the
plane I've flown) used a simple rubber bungee cord tied from two points on
the front of the back seat then around the stick. By moving the rubber
cord up and down the stick the amount of pull on the stick was varied. Now
that would only work on a plane that was initially nose heavy, but with
full fuel in a nose tank that might probably be the case.
Remember that this is only my opinion from having put quite a few hours on
the plane. However, the danger and fatigue statements come from the
instuctor side of me. :) Those urge me to want trim.
...Edwin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Edwin Johnson ....... elj(at)shreve.net ~
~ http://www.shreve.net/~elj ~
~ ~
~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the ~
~ earth with your eyes turned skyward, ~
~ for there you have been, there you long ~
~ to return." -- da Vinci ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Associated Press and Emachineshop.com |
the CAD program they developed has a selection of many materials. 4130N was not
on the default list, 4140N was... but in the notes section you can request any
material you want.
Seeing as how my parts were not to be welded I opted for the 4140.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Associated Press and Emachineshop.com
Wasn't there an issue of material that they used? Did they have carbon steel
cold rolled or 4130 normmalized?
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:16 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Associated Press and Emachineshop.com
a few weeks back I was contacted by a Technical Writer from the Associated
Press. He was writing a story on Emachineshop.com. Somehow he managed to come
across my name and contacted me. He interviewed me in several emails.
The article was published yesterday. He stopped short of mentioning "Pietenpol"
but did say that they made parts for my 1929 era airplane.
Neat story.... and great place to get lasercut and/or CNC'd parts
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmplstory&u/ap/20040818/ap_on_hi_te/online_manufacturing_6
DJ
_
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | I'm gonna make some copies of the old BPA newsletters... |
in case anyone wants a set....
I'm going to Kinkos and have them copy my "copy of" the BPA newsletters. But I
just realized that a few of you out there might also want a set.
I'll be selling them on eBay for only $100 a set....hehehehe...no....wait....just
kidding...
Ok, seriously, I don't mind having some extras made if someone wants a set and
will make it REAL easy for me. I'm very lazy about such things!
So if you want to send whatever Kinkos charges for the copy job along with a pre-stamped
mailer big enough to send them back to you in, I'll be glad to do it.
I just called Kinkos and they estimated (for APPROX 250 dbl sided/3 hole pages)
$35.18. DO NOT expect that price to be the final cost! That is ONLY an estimate.....
I have no idea how many pages there are but whatever it is, you pay
no more and no less than what they charge me and send me something to mail it
back to you in....I'll be glad to include a copy of the receipt if you like....
Optionally, if someone has a cheaper way to get them copied, great! Maybe I can
send them to you and YOU do it! Remember up above where I say I'm lazy????
:-)
I can tell you that for that much money, I will not make any extra sets......but
I would be glad to help you get your hands on the newsletters if I can do a
bunch all at once. NOte that these are nowhere NEAR first generation copies but
certainly usable and full of good stuff.
Interested? Let me know OFFLINE ONLY PLEASE. In other words, please don't hit
reply to THIS message....send it directly to my email account at:
Jim in Plano.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Oscar
How about a brief description of the trim system? Is it similar to Mikes?
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: trim
>
> >Anyone want to comment on the general usefulness of having elevator trim
> >in one's Piet?
>
> I haven't done any X-C flying in my Piet yet, but can tell you what my
ferry
> pilot told me about it after flying a bunch of hours in it. He said Corky
> had really put a nifty trim setup on it, very useful and effective. I
know
> Mike Cuy's Piet also has trim and he uses it to good advantage too.
>
> My ferry pilot also said his leg got tired after a while in the air and
> suggested rudder trim, but then again the rudder in this airplane is
> installed exactly on centerline with no offset and it may be that a tad of
> offset may eliminate that easier than a rudder trim mechanism or even a
> bendable piece of metal on the trailing edge of the rudder.
>
> Mike C.? Steve E.? Chuck "Mr. America"? What say about trim?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Associated Press and Emachineshop.com |
"Vegh said he found the software quick and easy to use."
For those of you who haven't met DJ or know him (I've been to his house in
Mesa, AZ twice) don't let the above line extracted from the AP article fool you.
DJ is like a rocket scientist on computers...
Sterling Brooks
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: More important things |
In a message dated 8/19/04 12:53:58 PM Central Daylight Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
<< why don't we settle down and do some serious planning for next season.
Maybe a Tour Texas, a Tour Ohio, a Cajun Tour(WOW) or better a big get
together at
Party Cove (Yeah). >>
Hey !! I'm fueled up, and ready to go !! I like to just point the nose in
some direction, and GO !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)aol.com> |
Netscape/7.1 (ax)
| Subject: | Marking elipse for inst panel |
Thanks right, just use a loop of string around two nails about 12-14"
apart horizontally. Put your pencil in the loop and draw a half elipse
matching the height and width of your inst panel.
Rick Holland
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I'll bet there's also a way to do it with a circle of string and two
nails.....
Hmmm, a changing radius....pretty close to an elipse, right?
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Solo propping techniques??? |
Has anyone devised a safe way to start up a Pietenpol
without any innocent bystanders offering their
assistance? Something that will work anywhere you
happen to land?
I am new to these machines and Chuck wouldn't give me
a ride in his at Brodhead (he indicated that I was way
too fat....but he did give my friend a ride).
I am wondering about the equivilent of a "kill
switch", where rotation of the wheels would yank out a
pin and ground the mag....hey, I am just thinking.
I am interested in what works and what has been done. Thanks.
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another dumb question! |
Why hasn't anyone invented a "micro-transponder/com"
or even just a "micro-transponder"???
I live and breath in Class C airspace. I believe I
need a transponder.
Maybe when Jim Younkin gets done inventing
micro-autopilots he will attack the portable
transponder issue.
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another dumb question! |
I suppose "micro" can be defined a number of ways....but one common "micro
transponder" used on Sailplanes is made by Microair. Nice small unit that
does the job but of course draws some fairly serious current and weighs 3
pounds and cost approx $1500. If I'm spending time grinding off all those
little epoxy drips to save weight....I'm SURE not putting 3 pounds of
transponder and the required battery in MY Piet!! :-)
Sure would be nice though....
http://www.eglider.org/catalog/items/item324.htm
JM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another dumb question!
>
>
> Why hasn't anyone invented a "micro-transponder/com"
> or even just a "micro-transponder"???
>
> I live and breath in Class C airspace. I believe I
> need a transponder.
>
> Maybe when Jim Younkin gets done inventing
> micro-autopilots he will attack the portable
> transponder issue.
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another dumb question! |
I just got off the phone with our local friendly
approach controller to verify a old "understanding"
that I had about this sort of equipment. It is
required by the FAR's however he did acknowledge that
aircraft such as the Piet (or a Champ, or a Cub, etc)
that had never had an electrical system were granted a
waiver of this part of the FAR's. However a telephone
call one hour, or so, ahead of the time of arrival was
requested.
That means that I will not proceed with my other idea
of having a transponder imbedded under my skin.
--- Jim Markle wrote:
>
>
> I suppose "micro" can be defined a number of
> ways....but one common "micro
> transponder" used on Sailplanes is made by Microair.
> Nice small unit that
> does the job but of course draws some fairly serious
> current and weighs 3
> pounds and cost approx $1500. If I'm spending time
> grinding off all those
> little epoxy drips to save weight....I'm SURE not
> putting 3 pounds of
> transponder and the required battery in MY Piet!!
> :-)
>
> Sure would be nice though....
>
> http://www.eglider.org/catalog/items/item324.htm
>
> JM
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 9:31 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another dumb question!
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Why hasn't anyone invented a
> "micro-transponder/com"
> > or even just a "micro-transponder"???
> >
> > I live and breath in Class C airspace. I believe I
> > need a transponder.
> >
> > Maybe when Jim Younkin gets done inventing
> > micro-autopilots he will attack the portable
> > transponder issue.
> >
> > =====
> > Larry Nelson
> > Springfield, MO
> > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > SV/ Spirit of America
> > ARS WB0JOT
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> providers!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
_______________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EPNGpilot(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Solo propping techniques??? |
Larry:
Buy a BYOP shirt and you'll get a free "solo propping guide" with your
purchase.
www.byop.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More Questions? |
This probably has been covered, but on the Model A
powered Piets, the aluminum heads are available with
two spark plug holes. Has anyone ever left the
distributor in place, with coil, and small motorcycle
battery, to run a hybrid dual ignition. The Cessna 195
with Jake engines were BUILT with just this type of
ignition and in fact are started in the distributor
only mode, then switched to BOTH. It would seem that
the aluminum head weight savings would pay for the
weight of a very small battery. The battery ignition
would not have much of a drain on the battery. The
forced landing issues I have read about with the Model
A were magneto failures. It would be nice to have a
dual system. My mind is wide open.
What say youse about this?
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
_______________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Dick asks-
>How about a brief description of the trim system? Is it similar to Mikes?
Edwin (Corky's test pilot) had already written-
>Corky (the plane I've flown) used a simple rubber bungee cord tied
>from two points on the front of the back seat then around the stick.
>By moving the rubber cord up and down the stick the amount of pull
>on the stick was varied.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More Questions? |
Good subject...Glad you brought it up. I've been trying to learn something
about mags lately and one of the things I've learned is there's a lot of
folks out there who don't know much more about them than I do. I bought
a "mag side drive" from Ken Perkins at Brodhead. I think that once I
overcome a little interference problem, it will do just fine. I wanted to
move the mag from the usual position in order to "free up" the space behind
the engine so I can mount a small augmenting fuel tank back there. There
are a lot of magnetos available. I think that most folks give Slick high
marks for reliability. But I've also heard that the newer Slick units do
not measure up to the older units. Surely, Slick is not the only
manufacturer that builds reliable hardware. I've got a brand new Bosch
American mag and I'd like to know more about its' reputation for
reliability. Any comments? Carl Vought/Huntsville, AL
wrote :
>
>
> This probably has been covered, but on the Model A
> powered Piets, the aluminum heads are available with
> two spark plug holes. Has anyone ever left the
> distributor in place, with coil, and small motorcycle
> battery, to run a hybrid dual ignition. The Cessna 195
> with Jake engines were BUILT with just this type of
> ignition and in fact are started in the distributor
> only mode, then switched to BOTH. It would seem that
> the aluminum head weight savings would pay for the
> weight of a very small battery. The battery ignition
> would not have much of a drain on the battery. The
> forced landing issues I have read about with the Model
> A were magneto failures. It would be nice to have a
> dual system. My mind is wide open.
>
> What say youse about this?
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
>
> _______________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | Solo propping techniques??? |
Hi Larry
I would suggest that you not hand prop an airplane with out an
experienced pilot in the cockpit unless the tail is tied to something
immovable.
Some folks do this by using a long rope tied with slip knots so that you
can give the tail of the knot a tug and undo the knot after you are in
the aircraft.
I am not very good at explaining knots, but it can be done.
Once the tail is free you pull in the rope and stow it in a small string
bag in the cockpit ready for the next start.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Nelson
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Solo propping techniques???
Has anyone devised a safe way to start up a Pietenpol
without any innocent bystanders offering their
assistance? Something that will work anywhere you
happen to land?
I am new to these machines and Chuck wouldn't give me
a ride in his at Brodhead (he indicated that I was way
too fat....but he did give my friend a ride).
I am wondering about the equivilent of a "kill
switch", where rotation of the wheels would yank out a
pin and ground the mag....hey, I am just thinking.
I am interested in what works and what has been done. Thanks.
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: What happened to the... |
Chris
Still kicking it around. Used the round to lay out my pattern. I'll check it
with the streamline tomorrow. Even though the round is stronger the streamline
would seem to me to be stronger than spruce. We'll see.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Carmen" <jcar(at)nefcom.net> |
newsletters...
| Subject: | I'm gonna make some copies of the old BPA newsletters... |
Maybe get them converted to PDF for a one time fee and then email this
PDF as a file to whoever wants it. They in turn can have the file
printed at there leisure with no shipping fee.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Markle
Subject: Pietenpol-List: I'm gonna make some copies of the old BPA
newsletters...
in case anyone wants a set....
I'm going to Kinkos and have them copy my "copy of" the BPA newsletters.
But I just realized that a few of you out there might also want a set.
I'll be selling them on eBay for only $100 a
set....hehehehe...no....wait....just kidding...
Ok, seriously, I don't mind having some extras made if someone wants a
set and will make it REAL easy for me. I'm very lazy about such things!
So if you want to send whatever Kinkos charges for the copy job along
with a pre-stamped mailer big enough to send them back to you in, I'll
be glad to do it.
I just called Kinkos and they estimated (for APPROX 250 dbl sided/3 hole
pages) $35.18. DO NOT expect that price to be the final cost! That is
ONLY an estimate..... I have no idea how many pages there are but
whatever it is, you pay no more and no less than what they charge me and
send me something to mail it back to you in....I'll be glad to include a
copy of the receipt if you like....
Optionally, if someone has a cheaper way to get them copied, great!
Maybe I can send them to you and YOU do it! Remember up above where I
say I'm lazy???? :-)
I can tell you that for that much money, I will not make any extra
sets......but I would be glad to help you get your hands on the
newsletters if I can do a bunch all at once. NOte that these are
nowhere NEAR first generation copies but certainly usable and full of
good stuff.
Interested? Let me know OFFLINE ONLY PLEASE. In other words, please
don't hit reply to THIS message....send it directly to my email account
at:
Jim in Plano.....
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Smith <lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Solo propping techniques??? |
<20040820131451.35520.qmail(at)web40613.mail.yahoo.com>
My take on a safe manner to solo hand prop is a tow hitch style
mechanism. Use the tie down ropes on the ramp to tie the airplane, set
throttle and switch as needed, prop the bird, get in and pull the
release. I was at a flyin a few years ago and a gentleman was preparing to
leave in his homebuilt biplane. He pulled it forward from the show line
and turned it 90 degrees. Placed a couple of aluminum angle chocks at one
wheel and prepared to handprop his plane and then retrieve the chocks once
he was in the cockpit with a length of rope that was tied to the
chocks. Seeing a mishap in the making, I asked if I could assist him by
propping his plane for him. Fortunately he was receptive and I handed him
his chocks, had him get in his plane, set the brakes (confirmed by a tug on
the prop hub), and proceeded to prop the plane for him. He waved thanks
and was on his way. I hate to think what might have happened if the plane
had jumped the chocks and taxied among the people there looking at the
planes or swung around on the one wheel that was chocked and damaged
another plane adjacent to his. I wrote an email to the organizers of that
flyin (an EAA chapter) and suggested that they require a pair of wing
walkers to accompany ALL aircraft to the clear part of the taxiway to
prevent a tragedy. They said that would be a priority issue to address for
their next flyin. A towhook mechanism isn't hard to build. Basically,
it's a hook that pivots on one leg of the hook and is held in the captured
position by a loop around the free leg. Pull a cable to move the loop, the
hook pivots down and aft freeing the rope and you're on your way. I'm sure
there must be diagrams somewhere on the 'net. If you can't find one, let
me know.
At 09:14 AM 8/20/2004, you wrote:
>
>
>Has anyone devised a safe way to start up a Pietenpol
>without any innocent bystanders offering their
>assistance? Something that will work anywhere you
>happen to land?
>
>I am new to these machines and Chuck wouldn't give me
>a ride in his at Brodhead (he indicated that I was way
>too fat....but he did give my friend a ride).
>
>I am wondering about the equivilent of a "kill
>switch", where rotation of the wheels would yank out a
>pin and ground the mag....hey, I am just thinking.
>
>I am interested in what works and what has been done. Thanks.
>
>=====
>Larry Nelson
>Springfield, MO
>Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
>1963 GMC 4106-1618
>SV/ Spirit of America
>ARS WB0JOT
>
>
>__________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
newsletters...
| Subject: | Re: I'm gonna make some copies of the old BPA |
newsletters...
Is this more pages than what you have already uploaded to mykitplane, Jimmy?
Clif
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: I'm gonna make some copies of the old BPA
newsletters...
>
> Maybe get them converted to PDF for a one time fee and then email this
> PDF as a file to whoever wants it. They in turn can have the file
> printed at there leisure with no shipping fee.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Solo propping techniques??? |
In a message dated 8/20/04 8:18:21 AM Central Daylight Time,
lnelson208(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< Has anyone devised a safe way to start up a Pietenpol
without any innocent bystanders offering their
assistance? Something that will work anywhere you
happen to land?
I am new to these machines and Chuck wouldn't give me
a ride in his at Brodhead (he indicated that I was way
too fat....but he did give my friend a ride).
I am wondering about the equivilent of a "kill
switch", where rotation of the wheels would yank out a
pin and ground the mag....hey, I am just thinking.
I am interested in what works and what has been done. Thanks. >>
Larry,
Sorry I didn't give you a ride at Brodhead, but I'm still getting used to
the flight characteristics of the heavier weights. The heaviest weight
passenger I've had so far, was 185 lbs, with full fuel. My ship weighs 630 lbs,
and I weigh 200 to 210 lbs. The climb rate is what suffers dramatically, and
while landing, I've learned to leave just a little bit of power in, through the
round out and flair.
I much prefer having an experienced propper (is propper a word ?) handle
the business end, while I'm strapped in, with brakes set. However, I launch
my plane solo, much more often than I have a helper, and I've probably done it
maybe 80 or 100 times. Ya gotta really have a lot of respect for that prop,
and sometimes I even talk to it : "OK, your're not going to hurt me today, are
you ?" Props give me the Hiebie Jiebie's.
As for my solo launching technique, here is how I do it. I always
launch from the grass, when solo. I carry chalks in the glove box, in the front
pit. After a thorough pre-flight inspection, chalk both wheels, pull the stick
back in the seat belt, fuel on, engine idle, mags OFF. While still standing
on the left side, still leaning into the cockpit, I say out loud "Fuel on,
engine idle, stick back, mags off, and it's in the chalks". I then walk around
and pull six blades through, assuming each blade will start the engine.
Whenever you pull a prop through, you MUST assume the engine will START. I then
walk
back around and turn the mags ON, and repeat out loud, as I touch each item
with my finger "Fuel on, engine idle, stick back, mags HOT, and it's in the
chalks". Then I walk back around, and the blade is up on compression, in about
the 11 O'clock position. Left hand pinky finger is half way out the blade, and
just barley let my fingertips go up over the trailing edge of the prop,
maybe just to my finger prints...NOT to the first joint. Feet back, look around
to my right side to be sure the area is clear, swing right leg forward, and as
I swing my right leg back, pull the blade through. The weight of my leg pulls
my body out of the biting range of the prop, as well as allows the first step
back away from the prop. Once the engine starts, usually the first of second
blade, I briskly walk back around the left wing tip, and crouch down to the
cockpit, and allow my right arm pit to rest on the top of the left longeron.
The first thing I do at the cockpit, it to just barley crack the throttle open,
then watch the oil pressure gauge. It seems like forever to get the engine's
blood pumping. Power up to 800 or 1000 for a short period, then go back
around the tail to remove the right chalk, staying behind the front lift strut,
then come back around the tail and remove the left chalk, watching for the plane
to creep...this is why I launch from the grass...it WILL creep on the hard
surface, but not the grass. Stow the chalks, climb in, strap 'er on, and hold
the brakes for another brief power up.
A couple of things that happened to me: Two years ago, I forgot to pull
the stick back in the seat belt, and the engine started, and as I was running
around the left wing tip, the tail was coming up, and I just barley caught it
in time, before the prop tips touched. Two other times, as I was climbing in,
my left knee touched the power lever, and YEE HAAW...we're off to the races,
and I'm not even in the seat yet !!! Luckily, these occasions turned out to
be lessons, and not incidents.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Solo propping techniques??? |
Guys,
When you decide to hand prop your plane and tie the tail down, just be sure
it isn't to a fuel truck that might drive away in the middle of the night. This
is what happens when you do.
Whitehorse, Y.T.
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Solo propping techniques??? |
More.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
Tom,
At least the prop is still good.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piper landing gear and wing struts? |
Mike,
Based on everyones feedback I'll probably be going the plans route for the sprung
gear. Out of curiosity, why "no" on the gear. My guess is too wide? Too
much work to convert? Weight?
The missive by the way is more about the kids and the hospital that I was originally
doing this project for rather than any cheerleading on my own part. I know
I'll finish, I have to...it's my ride outta here. :-)
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Luther
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Stacy,
Used (narrow )inspected Piper Cub struts: Yes
Used Piper Cub gear: No
A65 Continental: Certifiable, Yes, Jack-leg, No
Missive: Attitude, YES YES Enthusiasm YES YES YES
Schedule: 20+ hours/week nonstop for two years with no "Grand Piano" quality.
We know that you can do it!!!!
Mike Luther
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piper landing gear and wing struts? |
Mike,
Unfortunately mine's a standard Piet fuselage vs. GN-1. From the feedback I've
received it looks like the Piper gear in my case would be an uphill battle, though
I admittedly don't yet know why.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike King
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Stacy and Chris,
My Grega has Cub gear as well as other Cub parts. I am a believer in Cub
gear...Lord knows it has been given a workout (bounces)
Good luck.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Navratil
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:00 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Stacy and Chris
I belive the whole purpose for the creation of the Grega was that it could use
many of the J-3 parts and make the building process easier.
In short I think the gear legs are one of those parts used.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Stacy Clark
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:50 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Dick,
Thanks for the reply. I'm actually not building the aircraft for here in Alaska.
My goal is to fly the Belle to Washington D.C. via all the lower 48 states.
When I originally started developing this project about a year ago now
(taking it from planning to action in other words) it was for a well known childrens
hospital in the southeast. A few years prior I had heard one of their
radiothons and a letter from a dying boy to his mom...and you might say hit me
where I lived. Anyway, over this past year I've been working with them trying
to get their official nod of approval for the flight. Our litiginous society
being what it is however, the final word came down about a month ago that they
would no longer allow "any" point to point fund rasiers because of insurance
(read: public relations) concerns. That meant planes, cars, motorcycles, boats,
and even bikes. But oh well, life goes on. So, now I'm doing this flight
for any charity the donors desire and the flight will be "officially unaffiliated"
with any charity. There's obviously far more to it than that, but I won't
get into that here. So, going back to the original question, what's your
opinion on using Cub struts and landing gear?
Stacy :-)
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Ed Grentzer ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Ed Grentzer
Lists: Pietenpol-List
Subject: Piet in pregress
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/EGrentzer@ptec.pinellas.k12.fl.us.08.21.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Matt Naiva ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Matt Naiva
Lists: Pietenpol-List
Subject: A new Piet Engine
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/steamlaunch@softhome.net.08.21.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mother of all Pietenpol reference sites |
Outstanding site for Piet construction pics....
http://www.saaa.com/SAAA/Pietenpol/pietenpol.htm
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
Chris,
You have to wonder what the hell the guy was thinking. I've tied down on that
ramp several times and tie downs are scarce ....but a fuel truck???
You're right, the prop looks good and he won't have to worry about that long
flight he was going to have to make back to California. Wonder if they let him
carry his prop on the airline?
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Solo propping techniques??? |
Truck driver probably thought "Why the hell is that Cub backing up so fast!!"
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
newsletters...
| Subject: | Re: I'm gonna make some copies of the old BPA newsletters... |
Oh yeah.....I uploaded maybe two issues....I have a stack of double sided
pages about 1 1/2" high....... there's a load of them....really good
stuff....
J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I'm gonna make some copies of the old BPA
newsletters...
>
> Is this more pages than what you have already uploaded to mykitplane,
Jimmy?
>
> Clif
>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: I'm gonna make some copies of the old BPA
> newsletters...
>
>
> >
> > Maybe get them converted to PDF for a one time fee and then email this
> > PDF as a file to whoever wants it. They in turn can have the file
> > printed at there leisure with no shipping fee.
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Mother of all Pietenpol reference sites |
Thanks Stacy,
Peter
Wonthaggi, Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stacy Clark
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mother of all Pietenpol reference sites
Outstanding site for Piet construction pics....
http://www.saaa.com/SAAA/Pietenpol/pietenpol.htm
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Solo propping techniques??? |
Chuck, I know you realize I was "giving you the
business" about your reluctance to give me and my fat
friend rides, when you instead gave our skinny friend
a ride whilst we looked on.
Speaking of propping, I had the pleasure of propping
your airplane for you, just the way I was taught to
prop Champs... which was to pick up and swing my LEFT
leg to the rear, flinging the prop down and my fat
self rearward all at the same time. Was I taught wrong
or are there several ways of doing this? I have been
doing it this way for a long time but hopefully can
unlearn that method. I used it on engines up to my
Comanche 180 when my starter crapped out in Montana.
Thanks for you very good suggestions. Now...I need to
go do my exercises.
--- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/20/04 8:18:21 AM Central
> Daylight Time,
> lnelson208(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> << Has anyone devised a safe way to start up a
> Pietenpol
> without any innocent bystanders offering their
> assistance? Something that will work anywhere you
> happen to land?
>
> I am new to these machines and Chuck wouldn't give
> me
> a ride in his at Brodhead (he indicated that I was
> way
> too fat....but he did give my friend a ride).
>
> I am wondering about the equivilent of a "kill
> switch", where rotation of the wheels would yank
> out a
> pin and ground the mag....hey, I am just thinking.
>
> I am interested in what works and what has been
> done. Thanks. >>
>
> Larry,
> Sorry I didn't give you a ride at Brodhead, but
> I'm still getting used to
> the flight characteristics of the heavier weights.
> The heaviest weight
> passenger I've had so far, was 185 lbs, with full
> fuel. My ship weighs 630 lbs,
> and I weigh 200 to 210 lbs. The climb rate is what
> suffers dramatically, and
> while landing, I've learned to leave just a little
> bit of power in, through the
> round out and flair.
> I much prefer having an experienced propper (is
> propper a word ?) handle
> the business end, while I'm strapped in, with brakes
> set. However, I launch
> my plane solo, much more often than I have a helper,
> and I've probably done it
> maybe 80 or 100 times. Ya gotta really have a lot
> of respect for that prop,
> and sometimes I even talk to it : "OK, your're not
> going to hurt me today, are
> you ?" Props give me the Hiebie Jiebie's.
> As for my solo launching technique, here is how
> I do it. I always
> launch from the grass, when solo. I carry chalks in
> the glove box, in the front
> pit. After a thorough pre-flight inspection, chalk
> both wheels, pull the stick
> back in the seat belt, fuel on, engine idle, mags
> OFF. While still standing
> on the left side, still leaning into the cockpit, I
> say out loud "Fuel on,
> engine idle, stick back, mags off, and it's in the
> chalks". I then walk around
> and pull six blades through, assuming each blade
> will start the engine.
> Whenever you pull a prop through, you MUST assume
> the engine will START. I then walk
> back around and turn the mags ON, and repeat out
> loud, as I touch each item
> with my finger "Fuel on, engine idle, stick back,
> mags HOT, and it's in the
> chalks". Then I walk back around, and the blade is
> up on compression, in about
> the 11 O'clock position. Left hand pinky finger is
> half way out the blade, and
> just barley let my fingertips go up over the
> trailing edge of the prop,
> maybe just to my finger prints...NOT to the first
> joint. Feet back, look around
> to my right side to be sure the area is clear, swing
> right leg forward, and as
> I swing my right leg back, pull the blade through.
> The weight of my leg pulls
> my body out of the biting range of the prop, as well
> as allows the first step
> back away from the prop. Once the engine starts,
> usually the first of second
> blade, I briskly walk back around the left wing tip,
> and crouch down to the
> cockpit, and allow my right arm pit to rest on the
> top of the left longeron.
> The first thing I do at the cockpit, it to just
> barley crack the throttle open,
> then watch the oil pressure gauge. It seems like
> forever to get the engine's
> blood pumping. Power up to 800 or 1000 for a short
> period, then go back
> around the tail to remove the right chalk, staying
> behind the front lift strut,
> then come back around the tail and remove the left
> chalk, watching for the plane
> to creep...this is why I launch from the grass...it
> WILL creep on the hard
> surface, but not the grass. Stow the chalks, climb
> in, strap 'er on, and hold
> the brakes for another brief power up.
> A couple of things that happened to me: Two
> years ago, I forgot to pull
> the stick back in the seat belt, and the engine
> started, and as I was running
> around the left wing tip, the tail was coming up,
> and I just barley caught it
> in time, before the prop tips touched. Two other
> times, as I was climbing in,
> my left knee touched the power lever, and YEE
> HAAW...we're off to the races,
> and I'm not even in the seat yet !!! Luckily, these
> occasions turned out to
> be lessons, and not incidents.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
_______________________________
Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> |
Larry,
I like to start the Piet from behind the prop on the right side like
the cub seaplane guys. I can hold onto the strut with my left hand and
prop with my right. If the plane wants to roll some I can just hold it
fine as long as it is on grass. Make sure you are pointed at open space
just for good measure.
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mother of all Pietenpol reference sites |
Peter,
Thank you! Certainly makes a lot of things clearer. I recommend to anyone just
starting, or about to start their project, that they look at your site often.
Stacy Clark
Bethel, Alaska
(i.e.: The Bush)
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAuAhUAtUNC81BJeSRHg8n4BlnM44AoNT8CFQCS5WJmBTy+E4ZCjcWNOM2EXqf09g==
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
To whomever ti was going to build the plans "sprung gear", I 'd like to
suggest making the shock struts J-3 style by turning the lower bungee
cross tube 90 degrees to the top one, then spacing it the same distance
from the top tube as on the J-3 and buying the factory made shock rings
from AS & S etc. Stories are that the 6' of bungee cord is a real pain
to install and get both sides equally tensioned. I made a tool to put
rings on TriPacer shocks. Less than 10 min to install 4 rings. Last
night I went to our EAA mtg, and one of the members reported attending a
Piper forum by Clyde Smith who is a guru of fabric covered Pipers.His
latest word is to NOT powder coat anything steel. He says the coating is
so hard ( non flexing ) that it develops cracks letting moisture in
causing corrosion. He reported a failure of a part that everyone thought
should have lasted forever under powder coating. Something else to worry
about. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | BPA newsletters and Trim... |
Newsletters and trim? That's an odd combination.....
First the newsletters:
There have been several really good suggestions for getting the newsletters
scanned/converted/copied to CD, etc. And thanks! I definitely agree that
having the info available on CD would just be fantastic. I did try the
process a while back and scanned a few random pages. Those are available on
mykitplane.com. That's really the best way I think. Having them available
on CD is a great idea!
Since I'm in the enterprise software business, I have no shortage of HW or
software for scanning/converting.....I just need the time to do it (or the
money to pay to have it done).
And being in the Pietenpol building business, I have no shortage of
tasks/expenses for completing my project......I just put a VERY high value
on the time I get to do it......
So scanning/converting "ain't gonna happen" in Plano...... :-)
But I'll gladly make a set available to whoever would like to take on the
task (and share a copy of the resulting CD!).
Keep in mind that even with a couple of missing issues (I found 3 missing
issues, there may be 1 or 2 more missing), there are AT LEAST 300 DOUBLE
SIDED pages containing issues #1 from July 1983 through issue #63
"2ndQuarter 1999".
So let me know who's willing to "step up" and I'll get the copies on the way
to you.....
Now the trim:
I've attached a picture of how one builder (Dennis Hall, I think) did the
trim. I know this has been discussed at length but I thought our group
might find a picture of interest....as I recall, Dennis mentioned that when
he painted (or powdercoated) the tube, the "trim" didn't stay in place quite
as well...it kept sliding back down....just a friction fit....something to
keep in mind.
Jim in Plano.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatthe1(at)rochester.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA newsletters and Trim... |
<005801c4884e$68e8a440$6401a8c0@FAMILY>
Anybody got a place to put them if I can get them scanned?
I have the set that was put together by Mike Bell in 2001. I also have
access to copiers with Xerox FlowPort software installed (scan the doc, get
a pdf in the email). A few issues a day would not be a problem.
Are there any copyright issues/do we have permission?
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
At 09:46 AM 8/22/2004, you wrote:
>Newsletters and trim? That's an odd combination.....
>
>: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Carmen" <jcar(at)nefcom.net> |
| Subject: | BPA newsletters and Trim... |
Jim
I have a pretty good collection of back issues. Which one's you missing
and I will see if I have them. Ill have them converted to PDF and
emailed. I can do a few for free where I work.
John C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Markle
Subject: Pietenpol-List: BPA newsletters and Trim...
Newsletters and trim? That's an odd combination.....
First the newsletters:
There have been several really good suggestions for getting the
newsletters
scanned/converted/copied to CD, etc. And thanks! I definitely agree
that
having the info available on CD would just be fantastic. I did try the
process a while back and scanned a few random pages. Those are
available on
mykitplane.com. That's really the best way I think. Having them
available
on CD is a great idea!
Since I'm in the enterprise software business, I have no shortage of HW
or
software for scanning/converting.....I just need the time to do it (or
the
money to pay to have it done).
And being in the Pietenpol building business, I have no shortage of
tasks/expenses for completing my project......I just put a VERY high
value
on the time I get to do it......
So scanning/converting "ain't gonna happen" in Plano...... :-)
But I'll gladly make a set available to whoever would like to take on
the
task (and share a copy of the resulting CD!).
Keep in mind that even with a couple of missing issues (I found 3
missing
issues, there may be 1 or 2 more missing), there are AT LEAST 300 DOUBLE
SIDED pages containing issues #1 from July 1983 through issue #63
"2ndQuarter 1999".
So let me know who's willing to "step up" and I'll get the copies on the
way
to you.....
Now the trim:
I've attached a picture of how one builder (Dennis Hall, I think) did
the
trim. I know this has been discussed at length but I thought our group
might find a picture of interest....as I recall, Dennis mentioned that
when
he painted (or powdercoated) the tube, the "trim" didn't stay in place
quite
as well...it kept sliding back down....just a friction fit....something
to
keep in mind.
Jim in Plano.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA newsletters and Trim... |
Wow, that would be great John!
If you can do that, I'll be glad to copy them to CD and distribute them.
Checking a little more carefully, looks like I'm only missing issues 34 &
38.
I also have originals of issues 50-54 & 57 available (thanks to Max Davis).
The copies I got from Mike Bell a couple years ago were 3rd or 4th
generation....certainly usable but minimal quality.
If you'll send me your address (offline, please) I'll send you a good set of
copies of the above issues to include in the conversion.
Not sure if your set is like mine or closer to original quality, but using
originals (or close to originals) would sure be the way to go!
Thanks!
JM
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Carmen" <jcar(at)nefcom.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: BPA newsletters and Trim...
>
> Jim
>
> I have a pretty good collection of back issues. Which one's you missing
> and I will see if I have them. Ill have them converted to PDF and
> emailed. I can do a few for free where I work.
>
> John C.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
> Markle
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 9:46 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: BPA newsletters and Trim...
>
> Newsletters and trim? That's an odd combination.....
>
> First the newsletters:
> There have been several really good suggestions for getting the
> newsletters
> scanned/converted/copied to CD, etc. And thanks! I definitely agree
> that
> having the info available on CD would just be fantastic. I did try the
> process a while back and scanned a few random pages. Those are
> available on
> mykitplane.com. That's really the best way I think. Having them
> available
> on CD is a great idea!
>
> Since I'm in the enterprise software business, I have no shortage of HW
> or
> software for scanning/converting.....I just need the time to do it (or
> the
> money to pay to have it done).
>
> And being in the Pietenpol building business, I have no shortage of
> tasks/expenses for completing my project......I just put a VERY high
> value
> on the time I get to do it......
>
> So scanning/converting "ain't gonna happen" in Plano...... :-)
>
> But I'll gladly make a set available to whoever would like to take on
> the
> task (and share a copy of the resulting CD!).
>
> Keep in mind that even with a couple of missing issues (I found 3
> missing
> issues, there may be 1 or 2 more missing), there are AT LEAST 300 DOUBLE
> SIDED pages containing issues #1 from July 1983 through issue #63
> "2ndQuarter 1999".
>
> So let me know who's willing to "step up" and I'll get the copies on the
> way
> to you.....
>
> Now the trim:
> I've attached a picture of how one builder (Dennis Hall, I think) did
> the
> trim. I know this has been discussed at length but I thought our group
> might find a picture of interest....as I recall, Dennis mentioned that
> when
> he painted (or powdercoated) the tube, the "trim" didn't stay in place
> quite
> as well...it kept sliding back down....just a friction fit....something
> to
> keep in mind.
>
> Jim in Plano.....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grant MacLaren |
Does anyone have any contact information for Grant? He
produced a video of the construction of Howard
Hendersons Pietenpol and I am talking with Joe Santana
about that very same airplane, which is for sale. I
know this video is not available but maybe someone has
a copy of it. (I have copy of Mike Cuy's very fine
video.) I would also like any contact info for Howard
Strutman who used to fly this plane. Thanks
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Carmen" <jcar(at)nefcom.net> |
| Subject: | BPA newsletters and Trim... |
JM
Sadly I don't have 34 or 38, I do have original 50,52,53 and 57. ill
scan them. What if each person on the list converted a few to PDF from
originals and emailed them to someone that can compile them. ( this
person does not have to convert) this will spread the cost in time and
money around. And not everyone has every issue.
I will start with issues 50, 52, 53, 56, and 57.
Any takers?
John C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Markle
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BPA newsletters and Trim...
Wow, that would be great John!
If you can do that, I'll be glad to copy them to CD and distribute them.
Checking a little more carefully, looks like I'm only missing issues 34
&
38.
I also have originals of issues 50-54 & 57 available (thanks to Max
Davis).
The copies I got from Mike Bell a couple years ago were 3rd or 4th
generation....certainly usable but minimal quality.
If you'll send me your address (offline, please) I'll send you a good
set of
copies of the above issues to include in the conversion.
Not sure if your set is like mine or closer to original quality, but
using
originals (or close to originals) would sure be the way to go!
Thanks!
JM
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Carmen" <jcar(at)nefcom.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: BPA newsletters and Trim...
>
> Jim
>
> I have a pretty good collection of back issues. Which one's you
missing
> and I will see if I have them. Ill have them converted to PDF and
> emailed. I can do a few for free where I work.
>
> John C.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
> Markle
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 9:46 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: BPA newsletters and Trim...
>
> Newsletters and trim? That's an odd combination.....
>
> First the newsletters:
> There have been several really good suggestions for getting the
> newsletters
> scanned/converted/copied to CD, etc. And thanks! I definitely agree
> that
> having the info available on CD would just be fantastic. I did try
the
> process a while back and scanned a few random pages. Those are
> available on
> mykitplane.com. That's really the best way I think. Having them
> available
> on CD is a great idea!
>
> Since I'm in the enterprise software business, I have no shortage of
HW
> or
> software for scanning/converting.....I just need the time to do it (or
> the
> money to pay to have it done).
>
> And being in the Pietenpol building business, I have no shortage of
> tasks/expenses for completing my project......I just put a VERY high
> value
> on the time I get to do it......
>
> So scanning/converting "ain't gonna happen" in Plano...... :-)
>
> But I'll gladly make a set available to whoever would like to take on
> the
> task (and share a copy of the resulting CD!).
>
> Keep in mind that even with a couple of missing issues (I found 3
> missing
> issues, there may be 1 or 2 more missing), there are AT LEAST 300
DOUBLE
> SIDED pages containing issues #1 from July 1983 through issue #63
> "2ndQuarter 1999".
>
> So let me know who's willing to "step up" and I'll get the copies on
the
> way
> to you.....
>
> Now the trim:
> I've attached a picture of how one builder (Dennis Hall, I think) did
> the
> trim. I know this has been discussed at length but I thought our
group
> might find a picture of interest....as I recall, Dennis mentioned that
> when
> he painted (or powdercoated) the tube, the "trim" didn't stay in place
> quite
> as well...it kept sliding back down....just a friction
fit....something
> to
> keep in mind.
>
> Jim in Plano.....
>
>
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: "sprung gear" |
What you say might well be true, but I lost a Honda to rust that formed
under the power coat. My Buick is showing the same rusting symptoms under
the powder coat. I suppose that wouldn't be so bad except on both cars it
was on the rear suspension links. The attach point for a panhard link broke
off on the Honda and the read differential rusted thru so let the gear lube
out. Now I understand that the corrosion exposure is much greater in a car
due to salt and moisture, but I wonder how a Florida plane would fare. I
have seen the wing spar of a Florida based Cessna developed holes from
corrosion. Once powder coat cracks and lets in moisture, the corrosion
process is accelerated as it is protected from drying.
Remember the FAA has yet to permit powder coating for aluminum as far as I
know.
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "sprung gear"
>
> Leon,
>
> He is using the wrong powder. He needs to use a semi bridging urethane
> based powder.
>
> He is obviously using an epoxy which is too brittle, like porcelin enamel,
> and has no bridging ability. It will also chalk with exposure to the sun.
>
> chris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks(at)webtv.net>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 7:49 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: "sprung gear"
>
>
> >
> > To whomever ti was going to build the plans "sprung gear", I 'd like to
> > suggest making the shock struts J-3 style by turning the lower bungee
> > cross tube 90 degrees to the top one, then spacing it the same distance
> > from the top tube as on the J-3 and buying the factory made shock rings
> > from AS & S etc. Stories are that the 6' of bungee cord is a real pain
> > to install and get both sides equally tensioned. I made a tool to put
> > rings on TriPacer shocks. Less than 10 min to install 4 rings. Last
> > night I went to our EAA mtg, and one of the members reported attending a
> > Piper forum by Clyde Smith who is a guru of fabric covered Pipers.His
> > latest word is to NOT powder coat anything steel. He says the coating is
> > so hard ( non flexing ) that it develops cracks letting moisture in
> > causing corrosion. He reported a failure of a part that everyone thought
> > should have lasted forever under powder coating. Something else to worry
> > about. Leon S.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grant MacLaren |
I have a copy of it and Grant gave me permission to distribute it....
I won't sell it but if you'll send me a VHS cassette with return postage and
packaging, I'll copy it for you....
Jim in Plano TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Grant MacLaren
>
>
> Does anyone have any contact information for Grant? He
> produced a video of the construction of Howard
> Hendersons Pietenpol and I am talking with Joe Santana
> about that very same airplane, which is for sale. I
> know this video is not available but maybe someone has
> a copy of it. (I have copy of Mike Cuy's very fine
> video.) I would also like any contact info for Howard
> Strutman who used to fly this plane. Thanks
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
Oops, I went back and checked the note Grant sent me and it says nothing
about "distribution".....
So I sent him a note to request his approval to make copies......
JM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Grant MacLaren
>
> I have a copy of it and Grant gave me permission to distribute it....
>
> I won't sell it but if you'll send me a VHS cassette with return postage
and
> packaging, I'll copy it for you....
>
> Jim in Plano TX
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 10:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Grant MacLaren
>
>
> >
> >
> > Does anyone have any contact information for Grant? He
> > produced a video of the construction of Howard
> > Hendersons Pietenpol and I am talking with Joe Santana
> > about that very same airplane, which is for sale. I
> > know this video is not available but maybe someone has
> > a copy of it. (I have copy of Mike Cuy's very fine
> > video.) I would also like any contact info for Howard
> > Strutman who used to fly this plane. Thanks
> >
> > =====
> > Larry Nelson
> > Springfield, MO
> > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > SV/ Spirit of America
> > ARS WB0JOT
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Paulsen" <dpaul(at)fidnet.com> |
I finished making my wheel hubs and have sent them to Buchanan's for spoking.
I have a bad feeling that I made them a tad bit heavier than they should be.
Did anyone on the list happen to weigh their wheel hubs?
Dave in Mo.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
About 1.75lbs each (Ken Perkins http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoNameMvc-002H.jpg&PhotoID92 hubs....)
----- Original Message -----
From: David Paulsen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 10:27 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wheel Hubs
I finished making my wheel hubs and have sent them to Buchanan's for spoking.
I have a bad feeling that I made them a tad bit heavier than they should be.
Did anyone on the list happen to weigh their wheel hubs?
Dave in Mo.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
"Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft"
<013401c48867$ed348e30$6401a8c0@FAMILY>
| Subject: | N74DV gets some attention today |
Woke up this morning, pulled up the weather and saw that we were only going
to see a high of 102 today...... "ooooohhhh that's nice and cool" I says
to myself, "maybe I'll work on the plane".
Cleaned out the shop from all the crap that has accumulated this summer and
rolled out N74DV. Had to stare at it for about 20 minutes to regroup and
figure out my new plan of attack. I spent about an hour today finishing up
the mixture control bellcrank that's bolted to the firewall.
So..... with cooler weather on the horizon I have kicked off the building
season a month early.
Firewall forward is about 85% complete. I plan on having it 98% by
Copperstate Fly-in in October (not including cowling). Then it's time to
put the wings on, run the aileron cables, take it all apart and then the big
nasty "C" word.... Cover. ugggghhhh I'm nervous about the covering but
I'll read the books and watch the videos many times before then.
I'm gonna do my best to have this machine flying by April or May....
finances and time permitting.
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
N74DV
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
_
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Grant MacLaren |
I have a copy I bought several years ago...Carl
wrote :
>
>
> Does anyone have any contact information for Grant? He
> produced a video of the construction of Howard
> Hendersons Pietenpol and I am talking with Joe Santana
> about that very same airplane, which is for sale. I
> know this video is not available but maybe someone has
> a copy of it. (I have copy of Mike Cuy's very fine
> video.) I would also like any contact info for Howard
> Strutman who used to fly this plane. Thanks
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
I don't have the weight of just the hubs but the weight of the Jenny style gear
with 19" rims and 3.50" tires, ash gear legs, axle, spreader bars, all cross
cables and turnbuckles, and no brakes is 60 pounds.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: David Paulsen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 10:27 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wheel Hubs
I finished making my wheel hubs and have sent them to Buchanan's for spoking.
I have a bad feeling that I made them a tad bit heavier than they should be.
Did anyone on the list happen to weigh their wheel hubs?
Dave in Mo.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)" <alexander.birca(at)ericsson.com> |
| Subject: | BPA newsletters and Trim... |
I am ready to scan them and then will return them on the CD in whatever you want
(jpg, djvu e.t.c.) I am sure in djvu format there will not be a big size file,
just a couple of megs. Just send me the copy of the entire newsletters.
BR,
Alex Birca,
Moldova
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Subject: Pietenpol-List: BPA newsletters and Trim...
So let me know who's willing to "step up" and I'll get the copies on the way
to you.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | At7000ft(at)aol.com |
Which pulleys did you guys use on your torque tube? Is it best to use ball
bearing type pulleys wherever possible? I noticed that the ball bearing 2"
pulleys are .484" or more wide, 2 of those together is wider than the torque
tube. The cheaper 2" phenolic pulleys with the bronze bushings that are
specified as usable with 1/8" cable are also too wide at .438". (Am referencing
page
140 in the new AS catalog).
Also read the archive discussion about the front torque tube elevator pully
needing to be bigger than 2" based on 43.13 and what Bingelis says in his book
(using 1/8" cable). Would their be any problem using a 3" ball bearing
pulley there?
Thanks
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | What happened to the... (streamline tubing) |
Corky wrote (in reply to Chris' question)-
>Still kicking it around. Used the round to lay out my pattern. I'll check
>it
>with the streamline tomorrow. Even though the round is stronger the
>streamline would seem to me to be stronger than spruce. We'll see.
As mentioned on this list before, if anyone wants to examine another way to
"streamline" round tubing for appearance or cost purposes, there are slip-on
streamline fairings available at places like
http://www.ultralightflyer.com/streamline_struts/ as used by the ultralight
guys. Not that a Piet has much to gain from streamlining the round tubing,
but sometimes appearance can be improved or an existing high-drag round-tube
setup can be helped a little.
There are also streamlined aluminum tubes available, such as at
http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html that can be used in structural
applications with the proper design forethought.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | engine instrument wiring |
I have a Grand Rapids Technologies EIS engine monitoring system
(http://www.grtavionics.com/model_2004.htm). It has a wiring harness that
plugs into the rear of the instrument and all the wires go firewall forward.
There are about 20 wires in the bundle. The diameter of all the wires
combined is about 1/2"
I want to hide the wires if possible so I was thinking of running them
outside the fuselage between the fabric and the plywood side. If I run them
along the top side of the stringer there is enough room for them.
My only concern is if I should ever need to replace a wire I will not have
access to them after the aircraft is covered. It would be just about
impossible to "fish" new wires through.
Should I just not worry about it and continue on? Seems like a wire failure
would be unlikley. The wires should outlast the covering I would think.
any opinions
DJ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
_
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | engine instrument wiring |
| From: | "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
DJ
Have you thought about running light-weight plastic conduit?
Jack Textor
Des Moines
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: engine instrument wiring |
Run all your wiring loosely through a light-weight conduit of some sort. Leave
a strand of stainless safety wire in the conduit too. If ever need to run anoter
wire or two...use the safety wire to pull it thru. If ever need to replace
a wire...tie a safety wire on it before you pull it out and use it to snake
the new wire back in.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine instrument wiring |
hmmm..... I found some model rocket tubes that might work as a conduit.
They are hard paper tubes about 0.73" diameter 18" long each, but could be
taped together to get the length I need.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXF572&P=D
I suppose they could be glued to the fuse side with some T-88. Maybe give
'em a light coat of varnish so the elements won't get at them.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: engine instrument wiring
>
> DJ
> Have you thought about running light-weight plastic conduit?
> Jack Textor
> Des Moines
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | engine instrument wiring |
| From: | "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
DJ
You might want to stick with plastic. On my RV I used the stuff they
use to run computer wires, it comes in 1/2 and 3/4 inch and is fairly
stiff. It is light blue and I got it at Menards for about $3.00 for 10
feet. If you want something more flexible and lighter use the stuff you
see in an auto engine compartment to protect wire bundles. It is at an
auto parts store in all sorts of sizes.
Jack Textor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Smith <lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA newsletters and Trim... |
<005801c4884e$68e8a440$6401a8c0@FAMILY>
Jim, to lighten the workload and expedite the process, perhaps 5 or 6
members would be willing to take on a portion of the scan and upload the
newsletters. 6 people doing 50 or so pages should be doable in a fairly
short time frame. I don't have Adobe except for the free reader, so let me
know what would be the best format to scan and save to for someone that can
convert to .pdf format. I'll volunteer to do a portion to OCR in .txt or
.doc status if that would be beneficial. I take it these were in gray scale
were they not?
At 09:46 AM 8/22/2004, you wrote:
>Newsletters and trim? That's an odd combination.....
>
>First the newsletters:
>There have been several really good suggestions for getting the newsletters
>scanned/converted/copied to CD, etc. And thanks! I definitely agree that
>having the info available on CD would just be fantastic. I did try the
>process a while back and scanned a few random pages. Those are available on
>mykitplane.com. That's really the best way I think. Having them available
>on CD is a great idea!
>
>Since I'm in the enterprise software business, I have no shortage of HW or
>software for scanning/converting.....I just need the time to do it (or the
>money to pay to have it done).
>
>And being in the Pietenpol building business, I have no shortage of
>tasks/expenses for completing my project......I just put a VERY high value
>on the time I get to do it......
>
>So scanning/converting "ain't gonna happen" in Plano...... :-)
>
>But I'll gladly make a set available to whoever would like to take on the
>task (and share a copy of the resulting CD!).
>
>Keep in mind that even with a couple of missing issues (I found 3 missing
>issues, there may be 1 or 2 more missing), there are AT LEAST 300 DOUBLE
>SIDED pages containing issues #1 from July 1983 through issue #63
>"2ndQuarter 1999".
>
>So let me know who's willing to "step up" and I'll get the copies on the way
>to you.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Smith <lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine instrument wiring |
<001901c48950$caf17fb0$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com>
AIl though it would be unneeded weight (not much at all), why not lay in a
couple (or more) of extra lengths of wire and label each end (A,B, C, etc.)
so you know which wire is which from each end. This way you're not fishing
wires at a a later date. Also, it might be advisable to add a couple of
different sizes depending on the load they might have to carry.
At 04:35 PM 8/23/2004, you wrote:
>
>
>My only concern is if I should ever need to replace a wire I will not have
>access to them after the aircraft is covered. It would be just about
>impossible to "fish" new wires through.
>
>Should I just not worry about it and continue on? Seems like a wire failure
>would be unlikley. The wires should outlast the covering I would think.
>
>any opinions
>
>DJ
>www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>_
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Smith <lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine instrument wiring |
<000701c48958$ed1525d0$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com>
As for conduit, use something like clear vinyl or plastic
tubing. Available at most hardware or agricultural stores.
At 05:34 PM 8/23/2004, you wrote:
>
>hmmm..... I found some model rocket tubes that might work as a conduit.
>They are hard paper tubes about 0.73" diameter 18" long each, but could be
>taped together to get the length I need.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
<000701c48958$ed1525d0$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20040823185407.0ea41ec0(at)mail.roava.net>
| Subject: | Re: engine instrument wiring |
I found some clear plastic mailing tube. .75" $2.40 for 5 feet.
thanks guys!
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Smith" <lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: engine instrument wiring
>
> As for conduit, use something like clear vinyl or plastic
> tubing. Available at most hardware or agricultural stores.
>
> At 05:34 PM 8/23/2004, you wrote:
> >
> >hmmm..... I found some model rocket tubes that might work as a conduit.
> >They are hard paper tubes about 0.73" diameter 18" long each, but could
be
> >taped together to get the length I need.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
<6.1.2.0.0.20040823182110.0e478ec0(at)mail.roava.net>
| Subject: | We're on the way!!!!....: BPA newsletters and Trim... |
I just received the PDF's for Issues 1-6 of the BPA Newsletter!!!! Way to
go Dave!!
This is great. If we all get together and those that have good scanners
available put them to use for a few issues, we'll have them all done in NO
time!!!
Please don't scan any without sending a note to the list (well, better yet,
send me a note offline) so we can avoid any double efforts (I HATE that!!).
If anyone can scan in doc format, I do have Adobe and can convert. I think
it also converts from jpg and gifs and other graphics formats. Whatever
Adobe will convert, I have recent versions for.... It's the scanning that I
can't provide. But I will gladly compile and distribute!!
Those of you that haven't seen all the issues are in for a real treat......
Jim in Plano
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Smith" <lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BPA newsletters and Trim...
>
> Jim, to lighten the workload and expedite the process, perhaps 5 or 6
> members would be willing to take on a portion of the scan and upload the
> newsletters. 6 people doing 50 or so pages should be doable in a fairly
> short time frame. I don't have Adobe except for the free reader, so let
me
> know what would be the best format to scan and save to for someone that
can
> convert to .pdf format. I'll volunteer to do a portion to OCR in .txt or
> .doc status if that would be beneficial. I take it these were in gray
scale
> were they not?
>
> At 09:46 AM 8/22/2004, you wrote:
> >Newsletters and trim? That's an odd combination.....
> >
> >First the newsletters:
> >There have been several really good suggestions for getting the
newsletters
> >scanned/converted/copied to CD, etc. And thanks! I definitely agree
that
> >having the info available on CD would just be fantastic. I did try the
> >process a while back and scanned a few random pages. Those are available
on
> >mykitplane.com. That's really the best way I think. Having them
available
> >on CD is a great idea!
> >
> >Since I'm in the enterprise software business, I have no shortage of HW
or
> >software for scanning/converting.....I just need the time to do it (or
the
> >money to pay to have it done).
> >
> >And being in the Pietenpol building business, I have no shortage of
> >tasks/expenses for completing my project......I just put a VERY high
value
> >on the time I get to do it......
> >
> >So scanning/converting "ain't gonna happen" in Plano...... :-)
> >
> >But I'll gladly make a set available to whoever would like to take on the
> >task (and share a copy of the resulting CD!).
> >
> >Keep in mind that even with a couple of missing issues (I found 3 missing
> >issues, there may be 1 or 2 more missing), there are AT LEAST 300 DOUBLE
> >SIDED pages containing issues #1 from July 1983 through issue #63
> >"2ndQuarter 1999".
> >
> >So let me know who's willing to "step up" and I'll get the copies on the
way
> >to you.....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatthe1(at)rochester.rr.com> |
and Trim...
| Subject: | Re: We're on the way!!!!....: BPA newsletters |
and Trim...
<005801c4884e$68e8a440$6401a8c0@FAMILY>
<6.1.2.0.0.20040823182110.0e478ec0(at)mail.roava.net>
<082401c4896d$ba9e3eb0$6401a8c0@FAMILY>
Get the clearance form Grant and I can blast the rest of them in. They are
in my desk at work.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
At 08:03 PM 8/23/2004, you wrote:
>
>I just received the PDF's for Issues 1-6 of the BPA Newsletter!!!! Way to
>go Dave!!
>
>This is great. If we all get together and those that have good scanners
>available put them to use for a few issues, we'll have them all done in NO
>time!!!
>
>Please don't scan any without sending a note to the list (well, better yet,
>send me a note offline) so we can avoid any double efforts (I HATE that!!).
>
>If anyone can scan in doc format, I do have Adobe and can convert. I think
>it also converts from jpg and gifs and other graphics formats. Whatever
>Adobe will convert, I have recent versions for.... It's the scanning that I
>can't provide. But I will gladly compile and distribute!!
>
>Those of you that haven't seen all the issues are in for a real treat......
>
>Jim in Plano
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ed Smith" <lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com>
>To:
>Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 5:26 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BPA newsletters and Trim...
>
>
>
> >
> > Jim, to lighten the workload and expedite the process, perhaps 5 or 6
> > members would be willing to take on a portion of the scan and upload the
> > newsletters. 6 people doing 50 or so pages should be doable in a fairly
> > short time frame. I don't have Adobe except for the free reader, so let
>me
> > know what would be the best format to scan and save to for someone that
>can
> > convert to .pdf format. I'll volunteer to do a portion to OCR in .txt or
> > .doc status if that would be beneficial. I take it these were in gray
>scale
> > were they not?
> >
> > At 09:46 AM 8/22/2004, you wrote:
> > >Newsletters and trim? That's an odd combination.....
> > >
> > >First the newsletters:
> > >There have been several really good suggestions for getting the
>newsletters
> > >scanned/converted/copied to CD, etc. And thanks! I definitely agree
>that
> > >having the info available on CD would just be fantastic. I did try the
> > >process a while back and scanned a few random pages. Those are available
>on
> > >mykitplane.com. That's really the best way I think. Having them
>available
> > >on CD is a great idea!
> > >
> > >Since I'm in the enterprise software business, I have no shortage of HW
>or
> > >software for scanning/converting.....I just need the time to do it (or
>the
> > >money to pay to have it done).
> > >
> > >And being in the Pietenpol building business, I have no shortage of
> > >tasks/expenses for completing my project......I just put a VERY high
>value
> > >on the time I get to do it......
> > >
> > >So scanning/converting "ain't gonna happen" in Plano...... :-)
> > >
> > >But I'll gladly make a set available to whoever would like to take on the
> > >task (and share a copy of the resulting CD!).
> > >
> > >Keep in mind that even with a couple of missing issues (I found 3 missing
> > >issues, there may be 1 or 2 more missing), there are AT LEAST 300 DOUBLE
> > >SIDED pages containing issues #1 from July 1983 through issue #63
> > >"2ndQuarter 1999".
> > >
> > >So let me know who's willing to "step up" and I'll get the copies on the
>way
> > >to you.....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wscottcars(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 08/21/04 |
Chuck: I'm the skinny guy that Larry Nelson said that you gave a ride to at
Broadhead. I really enjoyed the ride and I'm not that skinny I just was
hanging around with a couple of fatties. That was my second ride in a Pietenpol.
I also flew with Bernie Davey of Minn. that day and I wanted to thank Bernie
If he is listening. I also wanted to tell Chuck that he was pretty close to
my home when he spent the night in Versailes Mo. and maybe I'll have my cow
pasture made into an airstrip next time he comes this way. My Pietenpol project
is just getting started. My airstrip will be 2 miles SW of Brazito Mo. when I
get it built.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
I used the 2" ball bearing pulleys and yes 2 of them are wider then the torque
tube so I put a jog in the pulley holding-on-tab thingies to make the gap 1".
I also extended the tab down around the tube to get a little more weld area.
Some people don't like the 2" up front but it seems to work. I used the 2".
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 7:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys
Which pulleys did you guys use on your torque tube? Is it best to use ball bearing
type pulleys wherever possible? I noticed that the ball bearing 2" pulleys
are .484" or more wide, 2 of those together is wider than the torque tube.
The cheaper 2" phenolic pulleys with the bronze bushings that are specified as
usable with 1/8" cable are also too wide at .438". (Am referencing page 140 in
the new AS catalog).
Also read the archive discussion about the front torque tube elevator pully needing
to be bigger than 2" based on 43.13 and what Bingelis says in his book
(using 1/8" cable). Would their be any problem using a 3" ball bearing pulley
there?
Thanks
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <margdick(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Fiberglass Eyebrows for A-65 Cont. |
Anybody know where to get fiberglass eyebrows for A-65 Cont.
DickG.
Ft. Myers, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
Jim,
Grant has been burnt! &*%
him!
Just ask him why he stopped the newsletter in April when he had all the subscriptions
paid up until December.
He burned me and every other subscriber at the time!
Really, little if any of it is his work. It is merely a compendium of bits of
emails OF OTHERS and letters FROM OTHERS and articles contributed FOR FREE BY
OTHERS. Ask him what part of it he really owns!
Now that you know how I feel.....
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Fw: Pietenpol-List: We're on the way!!!!....: BPA newsletters
and Trim...
I must admit that the tone of this response took me back a bit....obviously Grant
has been burnt....
But ok, I'll respect his position and let this note serve notice that I withdraw
any offers to make copies....
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Markle
Sent: Aug 24, 2004 9:45 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Cc: GMacLaren(at)aol.com
Subject: Fw: Re: Fw: Pietenpol-List: We're on the way!!!!....: BPA newsletters
and Trim...
I'll not bother to contact Frank Pavlika for his parts of the newsletter....
JM
-----Forwarded Message-----
From: GMacLaren(at)aol.com
Sent: Aug 23, 2004 9:57 PM
To: jim_markle(at)mindspring.com
Cc: dmatthe1(at)rochester.rr.com, lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Pietenpol-List: We're on the way!!!!....: BPA newsletters and
Trim...
Jim,
I have granted NO ONE the right to duplicate
my creations in this way and consider it a violation
of my rights.
Please do not get yourself involved in this illegal
practice.
I will not hesitate in bringing legal action against
anyone who violates my copyright.
-Grant Maclaren-
In a message dated 8/23/04 8:24:41 PM, jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
What do you say, Grant? I know several have made hard copies in the past
but if there are any problems with us creating PDF's of the (3rd and 4th
generation!) copies we have, please let me know.
Thanks!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave and Connie" <dmatthe1(at)rochester.rr.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: We're on the way!!!!....: BPA newsletters and
Trim...
>
> Get the clearance form Grant and I can blast the rest of them in. They
are
> in my desk at work.
> Dave
> N36078 '41 BC-12-65
>
> At 08:03 PM 8/23/2004, you wrote:
>
> >
> >I just received the PDF's for Issues 1-6 of the BPA Newsletter!!!! Way
to
> >go Dave!!
> >
> >This is great. If we all get together and those that have good scanners
> >available put them to use for a few issues, we'll have them all done in
NO
> >time!!!
> >
> >Please don't scan any without sending a note to the list (well, better
yet,
> >send me a note offline) so we can avoid any double efforts (I HATE
that!!).
> >
> >If anyone can scan in doc format, I do have Adobe and can convert. I
think
> >it also converts from jpg and gifs and other graphics formats. Whatever
> >Adobe will convert, I have recent versions for.... It's the scanning
that I
> >can't provide. But I will gladly compile and distribute!!
> >
> >Those of you that haven't seen all the issues are in for a real
treat......
> >
> >Jim in Plano
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Ed Smith" <lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com>
> >To:
> >Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 5:26 PM
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BPA newsletters and Trim...
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Jim, to lighten the workload and expedite the process, perhaps 5 or 6
> > > members would be willing to take on a portion of the scan and upload
the
> > > newsletters. 6 people doing 50 or so pages should be doable in a
fairly
> > > short time frame. I don't have Adobe except for the free reader, so
let
> >me
> > > know what would be the best format to scan and save to for someone
that
> >can
> > > convert to .pdf format. I'll volunteer to do a portion to OCR in .txt
or
> > > .doc status if that would be beneficial. I take it these were in gray
> >scale
> > > were they not?
> > >
> > > At 09:46 AM 8/22/2004, you wrote:
> > > >Newsletters and trim? That's an odd combination.....
> > > >
> > > >First the newsletters:
> > > >There have been several really good suggestions for getting the
> >newsletters
> > > >scanned/converted/copied to CD, etc. And thanks! I definitely agree
> >that
> > > >having the info available on CD would just be fantastic. I did try
the
> > > >process a while back and scanned a few random pages. Those are
available
> >on
> > > >mykitplane.com. That's really the best way I think. Having them
> >available
> > > >on CD is a great idea!
> > > >
> > > >Since I'm in the enterprise software business, I have no shortage of
HW
> >or
> > > >software for scanning/converting.....I just need the time to do it
(or
> >the
> > > >money to pay to have it done).
> > > >
> > > >And being in the Pietenpol building business, I have no shortage of
> > > >tasks/expenses for completing my project......I just put a VERY high
> >value
> > > >on the time I get to do it......
> > > >
> > > >So scanning/converting "ain't gonna happen" in Plano...... :-)
> > > >
> > > >But I'll gladly make a set available to whoever would like to take on
the
> > > >task (and share a copy of the resulting CD!).
> > > >
> > > >Keep in mind that even with a couple of missing issues (I found 3
missing
> > > >issues, there may be 1 or 2 more missing), there are AT LEAST 300
DOUBLE
> > > >SIDED pages containing issues #1 from July 1983 through issue #63
> > > >"2ndQuarter 1999".
> > > >
> > > >So let me know who's willing to "step up" and I'll get the copies on
the
> >way
> > > >to you.....
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---
>
>
>
>
Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
> _; Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
>
>
>
>
Forums. http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
This is intended to be read by MR. Grant Mc.
In the year 2000 I began building a Pietenpol and heard about your
"CREATIONS" as you call them. I sent you my check for $10 and about this time you
faded
away with mine and I understand several other people's $10. I've waited for
your reappearance to ask for my ten bucks and will not let it rest until I
receive it. Please remit to:
Claude M Corbett
625 Pierremont Rd
Shreveport, La 71106
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | how cheap can you get ? |
The contributions that Grant MacLaren made to the Pietenpol movement over a
TEN YEAR period by being the editor, publisher,
and mailing house for the BPAN newsletter were simply fantastic. Nobody
else would have done that if he hadn't and if you count
all of his time answering mail, transcribing text, going to the printer,
compiling issues and photos, the lousy $10 per year cost probably just
barely covered his expenses, IF that. So Chris, you lost say
$7.50. You can't get a small pizza with two toppings for that much, but
look at the
valuable jewels of information that were contained in those 10 years of
BPAN publications. Perhaps some are due money but if you put this all in
perspective, how much do you fork out for AOPA and EAA and such per year
? Some are due money, I don't question that. What bothers me is that
the guy did this for GRATIS basically and did one hell of a job, and as
soon as the guy stops and doesn't send some refunds he's worth dog crap to
you. Hmmmm........glad I didn't take over the newsletter as Grant was
hoping I would.
Mike C.
please archive
>Jim,
>
>Grant has been burnt! &*%
him!
>
>Just ask him why he stopped the newsletter in April when he had all the
>subscriptions paid up until December.
>
>He burned me and every other subscriber at the time!
>
>Really, little if any of it is his work. It is merely a compendium of
>bits of emails OF OTHERS and letters FROM OTHERS and articles
>contributed FOR FREE BY OTHERS. Ask him what part of it he really owns!
>
>Now that you know how I feel.....
>
>Chris Bobka
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>Jim Markle
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:01 AM
>Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Fw: Pietenpol-List: We're on the way!!!!....: BPA
>newsletters and Trim...
>
>I must admit that the tone of this response took me back a
>bit....obviously Grant has been burnt....
>
>But ok, I'll respect his position and let this note serve notice that I
>withdraw any offers to make copies....
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Markle
>Sent: Aug 24, 2004 9:45 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Cc: GMacLaren(at)aol.com
>Subject: Fw: Re: Fw: Pietenpol-List: We're on the way!!!!....: BPA
>newsletters and Trim...
>
>I'll not bother to contact Frank Pavlika for his parts of the newsletter....
>JM
>
>
>-----Forwarded Message-----
>From: GMacLaren(at)aol.com
August 09, 2004 - August 24, 2004
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-dz