Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ea
August 24, 2004 - September 09, 2004
>Sent: Aug 23, 2004 9:57 PM
>To: jim_markle(at)mindspring.com
>Cc: dmatthe1(at)rochester.rr.com, lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com
>Subject: Re: Fw: Pietenpol-List: We're on the way!!!!....: BPA
>newsletters and Trim...
>
>Jim,
>
>I have granted NO ONE the right to duplicate
>my creations in this way and consider it a violation
>of my rights.
>Please do not get yourself involved in this illegal
>practice.
>I will not hesitate in bringing legal action against
>anyone who violates my copyright.
>
>-=Grant Maclaren=-
>
>
>In a message dated 8/23/04 8:24:41 PM, jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
>
>
>>What do you say, Grant? I know several have made hard copies in the past
>>but if there are any problems with us creating PDF's of the (3rd and 4th
>>generation!) copies we have, please let me know.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Dave and Connie" <dmatthe1(at)rochester.rr.com>
>>To:
>>Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 7:52 PM
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: We're on the way!!!!....: BPA newsletters and
>>Trim...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Get the clearance form Grant and I can blast the rest of them in. They
>>are
>> > in my desk at work.
>> > Dave
>> > N36078 '41 BC-12-65
>> >
>> > At 08:03 PM 8/23/2004, you wrote:
>> >
>>
>> > >
>> > >I just received the PDF's for Issues 1-6 of the BPA Newsletter!!!! Way
>>to
>> > >go Dave!!
>> > >
>> > >This is great. If we all get together and those that have good scanners
>> > >available put them to use for a few issues, we'll have them all done in
>>NO
>> > >time!!!
>> > >
>> > >Please don't scan any without sending a note to the list (well, better
>>yet,
>> > >send me a note offline) so we can avoid any double efforts (I HATE
>>that!!).
>> > >
>> > >If anyone can scan in doc format, I do have Adobe and can convert. I
>>think
>> > >it also converts from jpg and gifs and other graphics formats. Whatever
>> > >Adobe will convert, I have recent versions for.... It's the scanning
>>that I
>> > >can't provide. But I will gladly compile and distribute!!
>> > >
>> > >Those of you that haven't seen all the issues are in for a real
>>treat......
>> > >
>> > >Jim in Plano
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >----- Original Message -----
>> > >From: "Ed Smith" <lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com>
>> > >To:
>> > >Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 5:26 PM
>> > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BPA newsletters and Trim...
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Jim, to lighten the workload and expedite the process, perhaps 5 or 6
>> > > > members would be willing to take on a portion of the scan and upload
>>the
>> > > > newsletters. 6 people doing 50 or so pages should be doable in a
>>fairly
>> > > > short time frame. I don't have Adobe except for the free reader, so
>>let
>> > >me
>> > > > know what would be the best format to scan and save to for someone
>>that
>> > >can
>> > > > convert to .pdf format. I'll volunteer to do a portion to OCR in
>> .txt
>>or
>> > > > .doc status if that would be beneficial. I take it these were in gray
>> > >scale
>> > > > were they not?
>> > > >
>> > > > At 09:46 AM 8/22/2004, you wrote:
>> > > > >Newsletters and trim? That's an odd combination.....
>> > > > >
>> > > > >First the newsletters:
>> > > > >There have been several really good suggestions for getting the
>> > >newsletters
>> > > > >scanned/converted/copied to CD, etc. And thanks! I definitely
>> agree
>> > >that
>> > > > >having the info available on CD would just be fantastic. I did try
>>the
>> > > > >process a while back and scanned a few random pages. Those are
>>available
>> > >on
>> > > > >mykitplane.com. That's really the best way I think. Having them
>> > >available
>> > > > >on CD is a great idea!
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Since I'm in the enterprise software business, I have no shortage of
>>HW
>> > >or
>> > > > >software for scanning/converting.....I just need the time to do it
>>(or
>> > >the
>> > > > >money to pay to have it done).
>> > > > >
>> > > > >And being in the Pietenpol building business, I have no shortage of
>> > > > >tasks/expenses for completing my project......I just put a VERY high
>> > >value
>> > > > >on the time I get to do it......
>> > > > >
>> > > > >So scanning/converting "ain't gonna happen" in Plano...... :-)
>> > > > >
>> > > > >But I'll gladly make a set available to whoever would like to
>> take on
>>the
>> > > > >task (and share a copy of the resulting CD!).
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Keep in mind that even with a couple of missing issues (I found 3
>>missing
>> > > > >issues, there may be 1 or 2 more missing), there are AT LEAST 300
>>DOUBLE
>> > > > >SIDED pages containing issues #1 from July 1983 through issue #63
>> > > > >"2ndQuarter 1999".
>> > > > >
>> > > > >So let me know who's willing to "step up" and I'll get the copies on
>>the
>> > >way
>> > > > >to you.....
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >---
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
>> > _; Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
>>============================================================
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>=======================================================================================================================================================
>
>
>members.
>
>advertising on the
>
> Matronics Forums. http://www.matronics.com/chat
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
>
>Specific:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: how cheap can you get ? |
Mike,
I can probably live without that $10, who knows, but a crook is a crook and
stealing is stealing no matter what contributions were made in the past of
which I received 0. I would be the last one to sectionalize this thing I,m sure
you all know but to be beat out of some cash by a rebel is one thing but getting
it put to you by a cheatinYankee is more than I want to absorb.
YKW in La.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | how cheap can you get ? |
resource.com>
Thanks, Jack---and Corky I do understand your complaint---it is legitimate
and after realizing how you got in on the newsletter right when it was
stopped was just unfortunate.
On what Grant contributed to the newsletter was more than just throwing
together a bunch of paper mail letters and e-mails and photos. Way
more. Grant is an expert with old Ford engines and between he and Howard
Henderson, they built 44MH in St. Louis with a strong Ford that is still
running today. Grant contributed tons of excellent information himself in
the newsletters on building tips that he and Howard discovered along with
mucho technical expertise and advice on building up a good Ford engine for
use in the Air Camper. (not to mention associated info he provided on
carburetion and ignition systems.) The NEW Brodhead Pietenpol
Association news is put together by non-aviation or Ford people and
contains 1/10th the meat and potatoes of the old newsletters and in fact
re-prints some of what Grant had in his old newsletters. (that is how
they are scrapping for info) Grant was also the one, along with Bill Rewey
who made things happen with EAA for us to display 17 of our Pietenpols on
the flightline at EAA Oshkosh 1999. Did you see who picked up the ball for
the 75th Anniversary this year ? NOBODY. Thanks Grant, for helping out
for the 70th.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
<5.1.1.5.2.20040824135230.01d77498(at)popserve.grc.nasa.gov>
| Subject: | Re: how cheap can you get ? |
Mike,
He TOLD everybody one more year and on that basis I sent him my 10 bucks AND an
article to be published.
And then he did two more issues and kept everybody dangling for another year.....
I took him at his word.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 1:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: how cheap can you get ?
The contributions that Grant MacLaren made to the Pietenpol movement over a TEN
YEAR period by being the editor, publisher,
and mailing house for the BPAN newsletter were simply fantastic. Nobody else
would have done that if he hadn't and if you count
all of his time answering mail, transcribing text, going to the printer, compiling
issues and photos, the lousy $10 per year cost probably just barely covered
his expenses, IF that. So Chris, you lost say $7.50. You can't get
a small pizza with two toppings for that much, but look at the
valuable jewels of information that were contained in those 10 years of BPAN
publications. Perhaps some are due money but if you put this all in perspective,
how much do you fork out for AOPA and EAA and such per year ? Some are
due money, I don't question that. What bothers me is that the guy did this for
GRATIS basically and did one hell of a job, and as soon as the guy stops and
doesn't send some refunds he's worth dog crap to you. Hmmmm........glad I
didn't take over the newsletter as Grant was hoping I would.
Mike C.
please archive
Jim,
Grant has been burnt! &*%
him!
Just ask him why he stopped the newsletter in April when he had all the subscriptions
paid up until December.
He burned me and every other subscriber at the time!
Really, little if any of it is his work. It is merely a compendium of bits
of emails OF OTHERS and letters FROM OTHERS and articles contributed FOR FREE
BY OTHERS. Ask him what part of it he really owns!
Now that you know how I feel.....
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Fw: Pietenpol-List: We're on the way!!!!....: BPA newsletters
and Trim...
I must admit that the tone of this response took me back a bit....obviously
Grant has been burnt....
But ok, I'll respect his position and let this note serve notice that I withdraw
any offers to make copies....
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Markle
Sent: Aug 24, 2004 9:45 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Cc: GMacLaren(at)aol.com
Subject: Fw: Re: Fw: Pietenpol-List: We're on the way!!!!....: BPA newsletters
and Trim...
I'll not bother to contact Frank Pavlika for his parts of the newsletter....
JM
-----Forwarded Message-----
From: GMacLaren(at)aol.com
Sent: Aug 23, 2004 9:57 PM
To: jim_markle(at)mindspring.com
Cc: dmatthe1(at)rochester.rr.com, lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Pietenpol-List: We're on the way!!!!....: BPA newsletters
and Trim...
Jim,
I have granted NO ONE the right to duplicate
my creations in this way and consider it a violation
of my rights.
Please do not get yourself involved in this illegal
practice.
I will not hesitate in bringing legal action against
anyone who violates my copyright.
-Grant Maclaren-
In a message dated 8/23/04 8:24:41 PM, jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
What do you say, Grant? I know several have made hard copies in the past
but if there are any problems with us creating PDF's of the (3rd and 4th
generation!) copies we have, please let me know.
Thanks!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave and Connie" <dmatthe1(at)rochester.rr.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: We're on the way!!!!....: BPA newsletters
and
Trim...
>
> Get the clearance form Grant and I can blast the rest of them in. They
are
> in my desk at work.
> Dave
> N36078 '41 BC-12-65
>
> At 08:03 PM 8/23/2004, you wrote:
>
> >
> >I just received the PDF's for Issues 1-6 of the BPA Newsletter!!!!
Way
to
> >go Dave!!
> >
> >This is great. If we all get together and those that have good scanners
> >available put them to use for a few issues, we'll have them all done
in
NO
> >time!!!
> >
> >Please don't scan any without sending a note to the list (well, better
yet,
> >send me a note offline) so we can avoid any double efforts (I HATE
that!!).
> >
> >If anyone can scan in doc format, I do have Adobe and can convert.
I
think
> >it also converts from jpg and gifs and other graphics formats. Whatever
> >Adobe will convert, I have recent versions for.... It's the scanning
that I
> >can't provide. But I will gladly compile and distribute!!
> >
> >Those of you that haven't seen all the issues are in for a real
treat......
> >
> >Jim in Plano
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Ed Smith" <lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com>
> >To:
> >Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 5:26 PM
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BPA newsletters and Trim...
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Jim, to lighten the workload and expedite the process, perhaps 5
or 6
> > > members would be willing to take on a portion of the scan and upload
the
> > > newsletters. 6 people doing 50 or so pages should be doable in a
fairly
> > > short time frame. I don't have Adobe except for the free reader,
so
let
> >me
> > > know what would be the best format to scan and save to for someone
that
> >can
> > > convert to .pdf format. I'll volunteer to do a portion to OCR in
.txt
or
> > > .doc status if that would be beneficial. I take it these were in
gray
> >scale
> > > were they not?
> > >
> > > At 09:46 AM 8/22/2004, you wrote:
> > > >Newsletters and trim? That's an odd combination.....
> > > >
> > > >First the newsletters:
> > > >There have been several really good suggestions for getting the
> >newsletters
> > > >scanned/converted/copied to CD, etc. And thanks! I definitely
agree
> >that
> > > >having the info available on CD would just be fantastic. I did
try
the
> > > >process a while back and scanned a few random pages. Those are
available
> >on
> > > >mykitplane.com. That's really the best way I think. Having them
> >available
> > > >on CD is a great idea!
> > > >
> > > >Since I'm in the enterprise software business, I have no shortage
of
HW
> >or
> > > >software for scanning/converting.....I just need the time to do
it
(or
> >the
> > > >money to pay to have it done).
> > > >
> > > >And being in the Pietenpol building business, I have no shortage
of
> > > >tasks/expenses for completing my project......I just put a VERY
high
> >value
> > > >on the time I get to do it......
> > > >
> > > >So scanning/converting "ain't gonna happen" in Plano...... :-)
> > > >
> > > >But I'll gladly make a set available to whoever would like to take
on
the
> > > >task (and share a copy of the resulting CD!).
> > > >
> > > >Keep in mind that even with a couple of missing issues (I found
3
missing
> > > >issues, there may be 1 or 2 more missing), there are AT LEAST 300
DOUBLE
> > > >SIDED pages containing issues #1 from July 1983 through issue #63
> > > >"2ndQuarter 1999".
> > > >
> > > >So let me know who's willing to "step up" and I'll get the copies
on
the
> >way
> > > >to you.....
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---
>
>
>
>
Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
> _; Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
>
>
>
>
members.
advertising on the
Matronics Forums. http://www.matronics.com/chat http://www.matronics.com/archives
Specific:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andimaxd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Check out Album Detail Davis Pietenpol |
_Click here: Album Detail Davis Pietenpol_
(http://mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=216)
Group:
In an effort to change the last topic to something more constructive... I
took the time last weekend (and with some prodding by people like Terry B. and
Jim M.) to post some pictures on mykitplane.com. Enjoy! All comments both
good and bad welcome, on or off list.
Thanks,
Max Davis
Arlington, TX.
817.516.1116
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Speaking of cheap. |
I still have a couple of "very cheap" BYOP shirts left in Medium, Large and a
few Extra Large. (e-mail me first to be safe...)
If anyone wants one, 100% cotton, sold at my cost, no profit (I'd say that
qualifies me for "cheap"...) send me a personal check or money order in the
amount of $12.75 and your BYOP shirt will be sent muy pronto via 3 DAY PRIORITY
MAIL (shipping sets me back about $4.25) . Or, send me 12 ice cold Coronas and
your shirt will be sent by NEXT DAY EXPRESS MAIL.
Also include a mug shot of your face (preferably in a flying helmet and
goggles) and I'll send you an authentic TACO ID card, so realistic that it'll work
as a "get-out-of-jail-free-card" in many parts of Mexico and Arkansas. Your
TACO ID card will help you gain access to a TACO meeting, if we ever manage to
have one, at which time, we will teach you the secret TACO handshake, known
only to a few Texans and one guy in Canada.
If for some reason I have messed up someone's previous tee shirt order up
during my period of extreme disorganization in the past 3 weeks, send me an
e-mail. I think I've sent everyone their shirts?
Thanks,
Sterling Brooks
Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch
5TA6, San Antonio Sectional NOTAMS, Fresh cowchips on runway, land at your
own risk. 2 German Shepherds, 2 Pit Bulls a Fox Terrier and a Cow Dog on
premise, wear thick britches and run faster than 28 MPH if the dogs come a runnin'
upon landing!
www.byop.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
I hereby grant each and every one of you permission to copy and/or
reprint any and/or all of my creations posted to this list in perpetuity
and free of charge. Someday I may actually post something useful,
informative, funny or insightful. Someday. Share the joy. Have at
it...
Chris Bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
Mike,
I am looking at the two final issues of the BPAN which are issues 62 and 63. On
the back cover of issue 61 which is 4th quarter 1998, it is apparent that Grant
had no intention of going beyond "1999/12" but he does indicate a willingness
to take 10 bucks for 4 issuesin 1999. He does say "Do not extend subsciptions
past Dec., 1999!" on the back cover of 62 and 63. He does give renewal amounts
for 1, 2, 3, or 4 issues on the back of issue 61. Issue 61 is the 4th
quarter of 1998 and that is when I renewed, on 12/31/98.
I sent him my 10 bucks on 12/31/1998. He cashed it, sent me two more issues and
then kept the rest.
My Mother never taught me to do acts like this, no matter how much help I may be
towards others. It is plain not right.
He could easily have sent me a check for 5 bucks back, less the stamp, and do the
same for all the other subscribers. Or at least ask us to donate the amount
to defray other costs he had over the years. He simply absconded with the
funds and has not shown himself since.
His reply, as printed below is just not the truth as I and many others see it.
As you appear to be his attorney, why don't you ask him if he would release the
old newsletters to public domain to settle the poor reputation he has amongst
us.
Chris
with hundreds of volunteer, unsung hours for many aviation causes over the years
Chris-- here is Grant's side of the story:
"About the claims of my "stealing" money from the
BPA -- For many months (2 years?) I published statements
saying "do not extend your subscription beyond 'such-and-such'
a date." (We are currently packed to move and I don't remember
the actual dates.) Many people sent payments anyway. Their
checks were not cashed. That was easier than paying for
postage to return their unwanted checks.
I am not much interested in saying the same thing over and over,
but if there are people who say I didn't contibute to the Pietenpol
movement, why not ask them to contribute to the current
movement? It seems to need something more than gripes."
-Grant-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | How cheap can we ALL get? |
Grant supplied these newsletters for $2.50 apiece! He set up the copy and did
the leg work. I don't think he did it for the money. How much do you guys make
an hour???
They are legally his , and he worked for them.
Anybody need some cheese with their Whine?
Piets have been around for a long time. Grants wasn't the first. No offense, but
why doesn't someone compile a new newsletter? With all the infro available
with the computer, someone could take the reines and toil in their basement,
and print a copy that we could all enjoy.
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: How cheap can we ALL get? |
Walt,
You are right. You would put out a good newsletter.
Now, if someone does me wrong I usually turn cheek and find something better
to do than gripe. As my good father taught me" never say anything about anyone
unless it is good". I want to extend my apology to Mr. Grant Mc for the cruel
names toward him I made earlier today. He is totally innocent of taking my
$10 and I publicly state so. I have spent the last few hours going through old
checks and cannot find one I sent to him that was cashed. So he merely tore it
up and went on his way which he is priveledged to do. Not easy to beg
forgiveness, especially from a Yankee, but I hope he reads this and understands
my
feelings.
Corky in La looking for something better to do than find fault in others
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I am a bulletin board jinx! |
On this day that I have verbally committed to buy
Howard Hendersons Pietenpol from Joe Santana and get
it back in Missouri where it belongs, it appears that
my BB jinx has struck again.
My mere presence on any bulletin board I take part in
is enough to have everyone at each others throats. It
is happining on a "busnuts" bulletin right now, and I
fear there will be bloodshed over there. It happened
on the Twin Comanche forum when I inquired as to
certain aspects of the landing gear of the twinkie and
was promptly called an idiot for asking the question
in the first place.
After my first Brodhead visit, I came away very
impressed with the comraderie of the Pietenpol group.
Since I am "buying" a plane, I will consider myself
unfullfilled and pretty much not worthy to sit at the
front of the bus with most of you, but I hope I will
be welcome, nonetheless.
When I started lurking around the various Pietenpol
sites, I was pretty impressed with all the work this
Grant McClaren guy seemed to be about to put together
and make very presentable. My hat is off to him. I
don't wish to get into the fisticuffs on this, but I
will tell you I was impressed......still am.
Since Chuck wouldn't allow me to squeeze my fat self
into his front cockpit, I decided I better take
matters in my own hands. So, in about two weeks, a
trailer will head east to Waynesboro, VA and haul back
Howards plane. I will figure out how to fly it a
little bit at a time. I intend to become more active
as time and y'all allow. I talked to Howard by phone
this morning and he was very helpful with my questions
about the plane and it's engine. I used to check into
the EAA ham radio net many years ago and chew the rag
with Howard and many others.....
So, I appologize for the jinx and resultant curse I
have put on this forum.
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: I am a bulletin board jinx! |
In a message dated 8/24/2004 8:07:03 PM Central Standard Time,
lnelson208(at)yahoo.com writes:
> I will consider myself
> unfullfilled and pretty much not worthy to sit at the
> front of the bus with most of you, but I hope I will
> be welcome, nonetheless.
>
Hi Larry,
For my part you're welcome to drive the bus. Anybody who has an older Bonanza
can't be all bad. Welcome aboard and best of luck with your new Pietenpol.
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: I am a bulletin board jinx! |
Hey Larry:
If you ever make it down here to Texas, you can sit on the front seat of our
stage coach anytime. Bring a Corona and we'll even let you ride shotgun if you
like. Bring 6 Coronas and you can ride the ponys pulling the stagecoach! Fly
an Air Camper down here and the TACOS will bestow some fancy title upon you,
much in the way we Knighted Chuck as "TACO Conquistador" for flying to far off
and distant lands.
Send me a mugshot of your charming face and I'll make a TACO ID card for you.
Membership in the TACOS is very hard by the way. A membership/ID card for our
Texas Air Camper Organization club is very exclusive.
The criteria...
You must state yes to at least one question in order to be a member of
TACO...
#1. Are you building an Air Camper?
#2. Have you built an Air Camper?
#3. Have you ever seen an airplane, or a picture of an airplane?
#4. Are you a Yankee?
#5. Are you a Southerner?
#6. Do you hope someday to own or fly or touch or sit in an Air Camper?
#7. Do you like Coronas?
If you answered "yes" to any above question, you are qualified. Your "ID"
card will be mailed along with information to the "secret" TACO handshake as soon
as I receive your picture. The secret TACO handshake is so secret, only a few
Texans and one guy in Canada and Kansas know how it is done.
Have fun and Blue Skies to you.
Sterling Brooks
TACO Loco
Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch
5TA6 San Antonio Sectional
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: I am a bulletin board jinx! |
In a message dated 8/24/2004 8:47:04 PM Central Standard Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
> Must have had hemorodes ( Gives one a look of concern )
> We organized and played for 15 years until our ranks diminished to the point
> no new ones could qualify
Congratulations on being cured.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:I have a question... |
In an effort to offer some much needed RELIEF from the last dozen or so posts,
I'd like to ask a question.
What is the bluish-green residue that seems to find it's way into and around
anything associated with 100LL gas? I've seen this stuff show up around the gascolator,
on the firewall (and belly) below the gascolator. I had a 150 for 4
years and NEVER saw this stuff. I'm running a Stromberg on my A-65 . Does this
stuff collect and form within the carb bowl or just where it meets free air?
I've also seen it collect around the intke of a motorcycle carburetor (when
I used a little to run the engine).
It sure makes a mess. Is there anything that will get it off of WHITE Polytone
paint. (short of using MEK) Then I'll have to re-paint anyway.
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:I have a question... |
Bert,
It is a dye that is added to the fuel so that it can identified specifically as
100LL aviation fuel. There used to be other colours including purple for the
100/145 octane and red for the 80 octane. There was a 100 octane at one time
that I believe was green. It had more lead than 100 Low Lead hence the LL added
to the 100LL as this is a carryover from the old days.
The other reason for the dye is that it is useful as a leak indicator. If you
see the goop accumulating, then there is a leak or seep there. The fuel evaporates
but the dye will not. I lost 12.5 gallons once out of a bad seal on the
Cessna 140 sump drain and all I had left for the 30 bucks of fuel was a blue
dot. A good reason to always check the tank level by looking in the tank because
I was convinced I had the fuel.....and something was wrong with the indicator.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Conoly
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:I have a question...
In an effort to offer some much needed RELIEF from the last dozen or so posts,
I'd like to ask a question.
What is the bluish-green residue that seems to find it's way into and around
anything associated with 100LL gas? I've seen this stuff show up around the
gascolator, on the firewall (and belly) below the gascolator. I had a 150 for
4 years and NEVER saw this stuff. I'm running a Stromberg on my A-65 . Does
this stuff collect and form within the carb bowl or just where it meets free
air? I've also seen it collect around the intke of a motorcycle carburetor (when
I used a little to run the engine).
It sure makes a mess. Is there anything that will get it off of WHITE Polytone
paint. (short of using MEK) Then I'll have to re-paint anyway.
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpols around DFW? |
report
BlankHow many are around here? I'm pretty sure that in 6-12 months I'll be
looking for one, but I haven't really been around them a lot, and have never
had a chance to fly in one. I'd be glad to buy someone's lunch and gas in
exchange for a ride. It would be nice to get to know a few owners as well.
I did see an Air Camper and a Sky Scout at the Reklaw fly-in last year, does
anyone here ever make it to Reklaw?
Thanks for any information!
Steve Ruse
Irving, TX
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cross Country - Tour America !! |
Hey Pietenpol Group,
I've finally totaled up all the various notes I took on my Big Adventure.
This was the most enjoyable trip I could ever imagine. The support group from
this list was key to making it that way. I am truely in debt to Jim Markle,
Max Davis, Terry Bowden (Sterling and the whole TACO group), Jon Jones, Corky,
Dennis E. and many others, for your generosity and support. I had only a few
minor problems with the engine and airframe. On many occasions throughout the
trip, folks would offer their help. Americana is Alive and Well !! This was
such a wonderful trip, that I would like to post stories about each stop I
made, and I plan to do so over the next several months.
Here are the totals :
Gone from the Hanger : 26 Days
Total hours logged : 69.7 hrs.
Total Tach Time Spent : 61.67 hrs.
Total Fuel Consumed : 288 gal.
Total Oil Consumed : 7qt. ? (+ 4 qt. oil change @ Brodhead)
Total Miles Covered (plus the rides I gave) : 3100 Miles
Total Landings : 62
Total bottles of Baby Oil : 32
Total rides given : 35
Total money spent (est.) : $1270
Average Speed : 66 mph
Average price of Fuel : $2.50 per gal.
Spent 6 nights in the tent
Spent 10 nights with family
Spent 4 nights with friends
Spent 5 nights in a motel
11 States I flew through:
Kansas
Oklahoma
Texas
Louisiana
Misouri
Arkansas
Illinois
Wisconson
Indiana
Ohio
West Virginia
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
looking forward to the next adventure...where every flight is an adventure !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
<004801c48a4f$e34de940$0301a8c0@Domain>
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:I have a question... |
Now THIS is why I have tuned in for several years. Thanks Chris. Good Info.
BC
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:I have a question...
Bert,
It is a dye that is added to the fuel so that it can identified specifically
as 100LL aviation fuel. There used to be other colours including purple for the
100/145 octane and red for the 80 octane. There was a 100 octane at one time
that I believe was green. It had more lead than 100 Low Lead hence the LL
added to the 100LL as this is a carryover from the old days.
The other reason for the dye is that it is useful as a leak indicator. If you
see the goop accumulating, then there is a leak or seep there. The fuel evaporates
but the dye will not. I lost 12.5 gallons once out of a bad seal on the
Cessna 140 sump drain and all I had left for the 30 bucks of fuel was a blue
dot. A good reason to always check the tank level by looking in the tank because
I was convinced I had the fuel.....and something was wrong with the indicator.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Conoly
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:I have a question...
In an effort to offer some much needed RELIEF from the last dozen or so posts,
I'd like to ask a question.
What is the bluish-green residue that seems to find it's way into and around
anything associated with 100LL gas? I've seen this stuff show up around the
gascolator, on the firewall (and belly) below the gascolator. I had a 150 for
4 years and NEVER saw this stuff. I'm running a Stromberg on my A-65 . Does
this stuff collect and form within the carb bowl or just where it meets free
air? I've also seen it collect around the intke of a motorcycle carburetor
(when I used a little to run the engine).
It sure makes a mess. Is there anything that will get it off of WHITE Polytone
paint. (short of using MEK) Then I'll have to re-paint anyway.
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpols around DFW? |
report
BlankJim,
Reklaw is a great fly-in, south of Tyler near Jacksonville, TX. Near 300
planes last year I believe. Just a BIG grass strip in the middle of nowhere,
the fly-in is a weekend event late in October (last weekend every October, I
believe). There is plenty of food on site, and you can camp there or take a
shuttle to a nearby hotel if you aren't that adventurous. I don't mind
tents, but the lack of showers means I'll be staying in a hotel. I'll
probably fly down from Grayson on Friday or Saturday morning.
More info:
http://www.globalair.com/discussions/Georges_Hangar/article~/msgID=363
Thanks for the information, its good to hear about so many under
construction! I'll have to make the rounds before long and see some of
these projects. I'd like to see your videos, what is the best way to get
them? My e-mail should be able to handle at least a 30Mb attachment if you
want to send them direct: steve(at)wotelectronics.com.
Thanks for the information!
Steve Ruse
405-209-9010
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Markle [mailto:jim_markle(at)mindspring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 11:31 PM
To: Piet-Steve Ruse Irving TX
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpols around DFW?
Hi Steve,
There's one down a few miles south of Dallas at O'brien Airport (Mike
King's GN1) and one at Lancaster, DL Grammont's Pietenpol Air Camper.
One under construction by Tom Travis and Jeff Hill and I'm building one
here in Plano.
Also, near Grandview (SW of Ft Worth) Hank Styne just completed his a few
months ago. Has just a few hours on it.
Don't know about rides around here but I can tell you it will be a treat.
I took videos of my first rides, in a Moedl A powered Air Camper and an A65
powered Air Camper, and comverted them to mpegs. I would be glad to share
the mpegs if you like.
I've never even heard of Reklaw but will sure look it up!
Jim Markle
469.371.0669
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Ruse
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpols around DFW?
How many are around here? I'm pretty sure that in 6-12 months I'll be
looking for one, but I haven't really been around them a lot, and have never
had a chance to fly in one. I'd be glad to buy someone's lunch and gas in
exchange for a ride. It would be nice to get to know a few owners as well.
I did see an Air Camper and a Sky Scout at the Reklaw fly-in last year,
does anyone here ever make it to Reklaw?
Thanks for any information!
Steve Ruse
Irving, TX
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
>Mike,
>
>I am looking at the two final issues of the BPAN which are issues 62 and
>63. On the back cover of issue 61 which is 4th quarter 1998, it is
>apparent that Grant had no intention of going beyond "1999/12" but he does
>indicate a willingness to take 10 bucks for 4 issuesin 1999. He does say
>"Do not extend subsciptions past Dec., 1999!" on the back cover of 62 and
>63. He does give renewal amounts for 1, 2, 3, or 4 issues on the back of
>issue 61. Issue 61 is the 4th quarter of 1998 and that is when I renewed,
>on 12/31/98.
> I sent him my 10 bucks on 12/31/1998. He cashed it, sent me two more
> issues and then kept the rest.
> Chris-- Obviously Grant made a mistake in your subscription by cashing
> your check and not sending you the remainder of your issues. Like I
> said, you are out about $ 7.50.
>My Mother never taught me to do acts like this, no matter how much help I
>may be towards others. It is plain not right.
> Well that is a good way to live, and I appreciate her instilling those
> values in you, but the bible says that if we do not forgive others of
> their wrongs against us that neither will our Father in Heaven forgive us
> for our transgressions (of which I know I personally have many). I like
> to error on the side of the almighty God who has given me life, life in a
> superb country, and given me the gift of flight, airplanes, and good
> health.
>He could easily have sent me a check for 5 bucks back, less the stamp, and
>do the same for all the other subscribers. Or at least ask us to donate
>the amount to defray other costs he had over the years. He simply
>absconded with the funds and has not shown himself since.
> You are right, but it seems his intent to not cash and not return checks
> was in the right place and unfortunately, your check was cashed and you
> are due a refund. An announcement might have been in order, seeing
> that he was in the throws of a major remodelling project on his house and
> about to move. I suppose that when you've had to go to upgrade
> training or had some major life event, that some things do slip thru the
> cracks and become so small in importance that they do not matter at the
> time. Possibly this could explain what happened with Grant and his
> family. I don't know for sure.
>His reply, as printed below is just not the truth as I and many others see
>it. As you appear to be his attorney, why don't you ask him if he would
>release the old newsletters to public domain to settle the poor reputation
>he has amongst us.
> Actually I'm just defending what Grant has done for us in the big
> picture and that I think it is pretty childish and foolish of mature
> adults to bicker over a few bucks and a few newsletters that didn't get
> done. I do think that dwelling on the small negatives of these issues
> takes away the phenominal efforts that Grant provided to us out of his
> own time, effort, and expense. I'm not saying that what Grant wrote
> is gospel, I'm just posting it for you to read. I've heard your side
> and others, and then Grant's side. As with many cases of
> litigation, some cases are clearly right or wrong, others have grey areas
> where both sides have some truth and some falsehoods intermingled. For
> these issues, I really don't care who is telling the truth and who is
> not, but that we appreciate the big picture here, which in my simple mind
> far outshines and overshadows any of the negatives that might have fallen
> out.
>Chris
>with hundreds of volunteer, unsung hours for many aviation causes over the
>years
> No doubt, Chris. You have been a great contributor to the list and I
> know you have helped countless others with your vast knowledge of
> technical expertise in things related to aviation-------my dissapointment
> is in your seemingly bitter attitude towards life sometimes. I say,
> lighten up and enjoy what gifts that God has given to you and when things
> happen that you don't like or seem unfair, just think of how good we have
> it compared to 90% of the rest of the world.
All the best to you and yours !
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols around DFW? |
Hi Steve...
Welcome. If there's any place where there's nice folks eager to spur you on toward
building and flying a great little airplane.... you've found it! There's
a few of us in Central Texas working on projects. I am SW of Waco about 30 minutes
near Moody TX. You're welcome to stop by any time you are in the area.
Mine's not flying yet, but I'll let you sit in it and make noises. We have
a little airstrip called Tick Hill not yet on the sectional.... but soon will
be.
Follow the link below... you can look up my project, Jim Markel's, Max Davis',
and many other Piet builders from all over.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList.cfm?Menu=PhotoGallery
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | BPA Newsletter copyright |
Too bad that Grant MacLaren will not let us copy the old BPA newsletters, however
I'm not so sure he owns the copyright to the BPA newsletter or even has the
authority to deny BPA members that right.
I'm a new member of the Brodhead Pietenpol group and plan to start building this
fall and so my two cents probably isn't really worth two cents.
However, it seems to me that if the BPA newsletter was produced, distributed and
published by the Buckeye Pietenpol Association members through their dues, then
it is they who own the copyright and have the authority to grant or deny reprint
rightsand not the editor who was doing the work for the BPA, regardless
of whether or not he was compensated.
After all, it does say "Buckeye Pietenpol Association Newsletter" and not "Grant
MacLaren's BPA Newsletter." I believe copyright law will show that copyright
usually belongs to the publishing organization, not the individual editor (unless
they are the same person, perhaps.)
If the editor was editing, writing and producing the newsletter specifically for
the members of the BPA, and it was being printed and mailed using funds from
the BPA members, then I would say that the BPA and its members own the copyright
and I would question the editor's right to claim that he owns the copyright.
Conversely, the copyright for all the technical, marketing and advertising materials
that I write for my employer (a major commercial air conditioning company),
including articles that I write and send to trade publications on behalf of
my employer, even with my byline on it, belongs to my employer and not to me.
Similarly, unless EAA has a special contract with the editor of Sport Aviation,
I can promise you that the copyright to each issue of Sport Aviation magazine
belongs to EAA (individual article copyright may remain with the article's author,
depending upon the deal negotiated) and that if you started reproducing
and distributing "Sport Aviation" magazine, you'd hear from EAA's lawyers and
not the editor's lawyers.
Bottom line, because the BPA newsletter was published and distributed using BPA
dues, then I believe the copyright for the BPA newsletter belongs to the BPA
members and if a member wants to make copies for anyone they desire, they have
that right. I'm a strong advocate of an author's right to claim copyright, but
in this case I believe it is the BPA members that hold the copyright -- it was
the members that paid dues to have a newsletter produced and distributed. If
the members of the BPA want to republish the old newsletters, and even make
a profit at it, I believe they'd have every right to proceed.
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brett Phillips" <bphillip(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | I am a bulletin board jinx! |
Larry:
Congratulations on your purchase! My father and I did the same thing last
fall when we bought Kerri Anne Price's airplane and hauled it home. We
still don't have it assembled yet, due to some details, but we are working
toward making it a queen of the sky again. We are located just north of
Waynesboro, VA by about an hours' drive. If you need any help, please let
me know. In fact, I'd be interested in coming down just to see 44MH.
Again, if you need a hand, let me know!
Brett Phillips
Strasburg, VA
<>
So, in about two weeks, a
trailer will head east to Waynesboro, VA and haul back
Howards plane. I will figure out how to fly it a
little bit at a time. I intend to become more active
as time and y'all allow. I talked to Howard by phone
this morning and he was very helpful with my questions
about the plane and it's engine. I used to check into
the EAA ham radio net many years ago and chew the rag
with Howard and many others.....
So, I appologize for the jinx and resultant curse I
have put on this forum.
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter copyright |
Grant....All I want to know is...
What do YOU have to gain by preventing the spread of this information? I don't
see that it gains you in any way. Maybe you'll sell a few back issues. But
I doubt there are many people that are interested in buying back issues if they
exist... mainly because of forums like this that you can usually find the answer
to any question that comes up.
What do Pietenpol builders and matronics forum members of past, present, and future
have to gain if you would condone the spread of this information? The way
I see it... we would gain a whole decade and a half (or however long) of builder's
input toward building tips, safety concerns, cost saving ideas, etc. that
occurred in a paper forum similar to this electronic forum. You claim all
of this information is yours, yet most of it was shared by the BPA members.
Does this mean all of these Pietenpol emails are solely owned by matronics or Matt
Dralle? I think the right thing for you to do is just allow the info to be
placed on a public internet site. I believe that you stand to gain WAY more
in doing this.
GRANT... the members of BPA, Matronics, Broadhead Piet Group, TACOs and whoever
else is trying to duplicate Bernard's great little airplane should have the benefit
of the many year's input and experiences of past builders. If for no other
reason....to promote the SAFETY of design that we all strive for. And we
would all have YOU to thank and hold in honor for being the proponent of the
spirit and good will of the Pietenpol mistique during and after your tenure as
the focal moderator of information. You should let your Legacy remain intact
as is deserved for promoting Pietenpols.... not for stifling the group in a negative
way.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | BPA Newsletter Copyright |
When I became interested in Pietenpol's, I bought all the old newsletters from
MacLaren. He sold me all the letters that he had "copied" from Frank P. as part
of his package. I wonder if he had permission to copy the old letters and make
a profit for himself and not the organization.
As for the dues, I also was suckered-in on the request to save money and pay 4
years in advance. OUCH!!! Yea he got me for 4 years dues. No, he won't return
my emails or calls either.
Barry Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | VERY long response.....t: BPA Newsletter copyright |
I know enough about copyright issues to know for absolute certainty that
there would be plenty of room for a legal action AND a successful defense of
that action. If nothing else, my (costly) past "interactions" with the
legal profession have shown that EVERY battle can be won OR lost, and not
necessarily based on what's right or wrong or moral or ethical. A lot of
factors determine who "wins" and who "loses". This would not be as clear
cut as some would hope. But one thing's for sure, WE would all lose, no
matter what the legal outcome.
Having said that, the fact remains:.....I'm not making any copies. Period.
I will say that I was really surprised (and a bit embarrassed actually) at
what a simple "can I make some copies? no? ok..." turned into yesterday.
That lpossibly happened because of my failure to communicate clearly or from
OVER communicating.
For THAT, I apologize.
Frankly, my initial reaction was, "ok, I love sharing the reference material
others have shared with me and I love helping spread the "Pietenpol"
message. But threats of legal action? The heck with it, I'll just shut up
and mind my own business from now on." Then I realized that I had just
added one more negative to an issue that had already been blown out of
proportion. Then I saw a LOT of messages I wanted to reply to and realized
again, I would just be adding more negatives to an issue that has already
been blown out of proportion.
No, I do not agree with (what I perceive as) the spirit of Mr. MacLaren's
position, inspite of having some idea why he has taken this position.
Actually, when I realized there were people out there willing to pay money
for what he has reprinted, I decided to make the cd's myself and send them
out myself and ask only that a "contribution" be sent directly to him.
Seemed like a win-win-win to me (even with the fact that I would be doing
this "labor of love" for free....) But I WILL support Mr MacLaren's
position. And I'll move on.....
What do you say we ALL move on now and leave this issue alone?
This note is NOT intended to encourage a continuation of the discussion. In
fact, just the opposite. If you just can't help yourself and feel compelled
to reply to me or whatever, PLEASE do it offline. Everyone's been
annoyed/distracted enough for one decade.....
Jim in Plano....READY TO MOVE ON!!!!! :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: <TBYH(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: BPA Newsletter copyright
>
> Too bad that Grant MacLaren will not let us copy the old BPA newsletters,
however I'm not so sure he owns the copyright to the BPA newsletter or even
has the authority to deny BPA members that right.
>
> I'm a new member of the Brodhead Pietenpol group and plan to start
building this fall and so my two cents probably isn't really worth two
cents.
>
> However, it seems to me that if the BPA newsletter was produced,
distributed and published by the Buckeye Pietenpol Association members
through their dues, then it is they who own the copyright and have the
authority to grant or deny reprint rightsand not the editor who was doing
the work for the BPA, regardless of whether or not he was compensated.
>
> After all, it does say "Buckeye Pietenpol Association Newsletter" and not
"Grant MacLaren's BPA Newsletter." I believe copyright law will show that
copyright usually belongs to the publishing organization, not the individual
editor (unless they are the same person, perhaps.)
>
> If the editor was editing, writing and producing the newsletter
specifically for the members of the BPA, and it was being printed and mailed
using funds from the BPA members, then I would say that the BPA and its
members own the copyright and I would question the editor's right to claim
that he owns the copyright.
>
> Conversely, the copyright for all the technical, marketing and advertising
materials that I write for my employer (a major commercial air conditioning
company), including articles that I write and send to trade publications on
behalf of my employer, even with my byline on it, belongs to my employer
and not to me.
>
> Similarly, unless EAA has a special contract with the editor of Sport
Aviation, I can promise you that the copyright to each issue of Sport
Aviation magazine belongs to EAA (individual article copyright may remain
with the article's author, depending upon the deal negotiated) and that if
you started reproducing and distributing "Sport Aviation" magazine, you'd
hear from EAA's lawyers and not the editor's lawyers.
>
> Bottom line, because the BPA newsletter was published and distributed
using BPA dues, then I believe the copyright for the BPA newsletter belongs
to the BPA members and if a member wants to make copies for anyone they
desire, they have that right. I'm a strong advocate of an author's right to
claim copyright, but in this case I believe it is the BPA members that hold
the copyright -- it was the members that paid dues to have a newsletter
produced and distributed. If the members of the BPA want to republish the
old newsletters, and even make a profit at it, I believe they'd have every
right to proceed.
>
> Fred B.
> La Crosse, WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Hello Grant,
You don't know me.
However, I feel the need to apologize for inadvertently causing a few people
to vent frustrations which I feel should have been long forgotten. Here's
the story.
I am just getting into building a Pietenpol. I began my search for
information about this fine aircraft on the internet. Of course, I
encountered your very informative and extremely helpful website. It contains
a wealth of information. In reading through your site, I found the Pietenpol
family website, and found out about Brodhead and countless other essential
bits of information for Piet fans/builders. Eventually, I joined the
Pietenpol discussion group on the web, and visited Brodhead. The
friendliness and willingness to help of all those I encountered struck me. I
decided to take the plunge and build one of these wonderful antique
airplanes, knowing that there was a great group of people out there willing
to help along the way. I ordered my plans from Don Pietenpol, and I am now
sourcing wood.
In my few postings to the Piet discussion group, I have found everyone's
response to be friendly and helpful, and willing to share whatever insights
they have gained through their experience. Through one of these postings,
and following some e-mail discussion with Pietenpol builder, Jim Markle. Jim
indicated that he had some old copies of the BPA newsletters, which he said
were full of great builders' tips and historical info. I have seen a few
copies of the great newsletter you published for all those years, and was
sad to hear that they were no longer available. He indicated that he would
be willing to loan them to me (from down in Texas to up in Ontario). In
trying to figure out the best way to get those newsletters from South to
North (and through customs), we discussed several options. Eventually the
idea of copying them onto a CD came up, and, at the time it seemed like a
great idea. Since the newsletter's original purpose was to share information
and help fellow builders, the idea of sharing copies of the past newsletters
seemed to be in the same spirit. There was never any intent to infringe upon
your copyright. There was never any talk of anyone making a profit. The idea
was simply to share knowledge.
The reaction of a few people on the discussion group, when it was made clear
that you did not give anyone permission to duplicate your newsletters, was
surprising. I found it hard to believe that anyone would harbour resentment
for five years, over the apparent loss of a few dollars. And according to
information supplied by Mike Cuy, you stated that you effectively did refund
subscriptions, by simply not cashing checks.
Having seen the interest expressed in being able to obtain copies of the
full series of the BPA newsletter, I pose the following question: Have you
ever considered publishing complete sets of the old newsletters? Another
idea would be to compile all the old issues on a CD, which you could offer
for sale to all of us newbies, who didn't know about the BPA newsletters
when they were being published? I think the assumption was that you were no
longer interested in publishing and distributing and al the headaches that
go with all of that (maybe I'm wrong). It seems a shame to prevent the
sharing of all that great information.
Nonetheless, let me close by saying that I (and many others) truly
appreciate the fact that you have kept your BPA website open, following the
demise of the newsletter. Thanks for keeping the information in it
available.
Sincerely,
Bill Church
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter Copyright |
We are all building airplanes that will be licensed as experimental-amateur built
and, if you read the definition of this elsewhere in the regs, it means that
the aircraft must be built for the education of the builder, among a few other
reasons.
If one wishes to copy the newsletters to further the education of others who are
building Experimental-ABs, then this is no different than when I legally photocopied
copyrighted stuff and legally distributed it to my students at UT-Austin.
I don't think Grant has anything to say on the matter.
chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Davis
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: BPA Newsletter Copyright
When I became interested in Pietenpol's, I bought all the old newsletters from
MacLaren. He sold me all the letters that he had "copied" from Frank P. as part
of his package. I wonder if he had permission to copy the old letters and
make a profit for himself and not the organization.
As for the dues, I also was suckered-in on the request to save money and pay
4 years in advance. OUCH!!! Yea he got me for 4 years dues. No, he won't return
my emails or calls either.
Barry Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:I have a question... |
Bert
Well, Chris beat me to the answer. Aside from identifying fuel type, the dye is
a dang good leak detector. I don't think the oil companies planned it, just kinda
happened that way.
I have had some success removing the blue with Wesley's Bleach White. Be sure to
wax after use. The wax will also hold the blue away from the paint and help
keep it from soaking in.
Disclaimer: this is not 100% effective, but helps
Sorry for the legal stuff... but with all the copyright ruckus, just covering the
old 6. (This is a joke)
If near Atl. come to the Piet. Factory.
Barry Davis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Conoly
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:I have a question...
In an effort to offer some much needed RELIEF from the last dozen or so posts,
I'd like to ask a question.
What is the bluish-green residue that seems to find it's way into and around
anything associated with 100LL gas? I've seen this stuff show up around the
gascolator, on the firewall (and belly) below the gascolator. I had a 150 for
4 years and NEVER saw this stuff. I'm running a Stromberg on my A-65 . Does
this stuff collect and form within the carb bowl or just where it meets free
air? I've also seen it collect around the intke of a motorcycle carburetor (when
I used a little to run the engine).
It sure makes a mess. Is there anything that will get it off of WHITE Polytone
paint. (short of using MEK) Then I'll have to re-paint anyway.
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
What I don't understand , is that not a week after everyone wanted to lynch a guy
who was selling/stealing Piet plans on the net,,,,,do we condemn a guy who
wants no one to take his copyrighted stuff.
Guess what makes it either right or wrong depends on if we want it or if we'll
lose it.
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: copyright SNAFU |
Question for the group, I'm adding the last set of compression struts between the
spars and wondered if there's any issue with running the grain vertically versus
horizontally? Looking at the twisting forces, I'm thinking maybe vertical
would be logical.
Does it make any difference?
Maybe someone has done the analysis?
I don't think it will make any difference but now that I think about it, I want
it right....
Jim in Plano
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 3:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: copyright SNAFU
What I don't understand , is that not a week after everyone wanted to lynch a
guy who was selling/stealing Piet plans on the net,,,,,do we condemn a guy who
wants no one to take his copyrighted stuff.
Guess what makes it either right or wrong depends on if we want it or if we'll
lose it.
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I am a bulletin board jinx! |
Thanks for the offer, Brett. I will try to remember to
email you the itinerary. So far we are tentatively set
for loading her up around noon on 9 Sep. I am not sure
where Joe Santana's airport is. Make note to
self...........
--- Brett Phillips wrote:
> Phillips"
>
> Larry:
>
> Congratulations on your purchase! My father and I
> did the same thing last
> fall when we bought Kerri Anne Price's airplane and
> hauled it home. We
> still don't have it assembled yet, due to some
> details, but we are working
> toward making it a queen of the sky again. We are
> located just north of
> Waynesboro, VA by about an hours' drive. If you
> need any help, please let
> me know. In fact, I'd be interested in coming down
> just to see 44MH.
> Again, if you need a hand, let me know!
>
> Brett Phillips
> Strasburg, VA
>
>
> <>
>
> So, in about two weeks, a
> trailer will head east to Waynesboro, VA and haul
> back
> Howards plane. I will figure out how to fly it a
> little bit at a time. I intend to become more active
> as time and y'all allow. I talked to Howard by phone
> this morning and he was very helpful with my
> questions
> about the plane and it's engine. I used to check
> into
> the EAA ham radio net many years ago and chew the
> rag
> with Howard and many others.....
>
> So, I appologize for the jinx and resultant curse I
> have put on this forum.
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | lift strut fittings |
Does anyone know where the lift strut fittings attach on the spars? I am using
the extended fuselage version on the corvair supplement.
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | flying strut fittings |
On the long fuselage plans the flying strut fittings are 10 5/32" long. On the
original plans the fittings are about 6" long. The distance from the center is
given to a 1/4" bolt, but not the bolt that the strut attaches to.
Does anyone know where the longer flyin strut fitting should be attached on the
spar and where on the plans can I find this?
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com> |
I am looking for information on rib stitching. Some time back (several
years) I was shown rib stitching that as I recall, pulled the knots under
the fabric as you progressed to the next stitch. I can't find any
information on it now that I need it. Can some one help me out on this? I
also saw an illustrated article a few months ago ( I think) that showed a
mock set up to practice rib stitching. I only subscribe to the Pietenpol
news letter and EAA Sport Pilot but seem unable to find the article. Does
anyone recall seeing such an article.
Thanks for any help
Carol and Ralph
Raymond
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Hey all,
I have been having a problem with airspeed readings, the readings are way low.
The main question is that I located my pitot tube thru the leading edge of the
wing. I have been trying to adjust the angle of the tube but so far no improvement.
I know the guage works because readings go up in decent. I have alinged
the tube and bent it to be level at normal flight.
My question is, could it be that that location of the tube is the cause? The tube
extends out about 6" from the LE. I have a GPS and now also installed a
secondary ASI from a ultralite till this is resolved. I have a spare guage and
will also try changing it out.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rib stitching |
Order the Stits covering guide from Aircraft Spruce or Wicks. It has
everything you need to know about the covering and painting process.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib stitching
>
> I am looking for information on rib stitching. Some time back (several
> years) I was shown rib stitching that as I recall, pulled the knots under
> the fabric as you progressed to the next stitch. I can't find any
> information on it now that I need it. Can some one help me out on this? I
> also saw an illustrated article a few months ago ( I think) that showed a
> mock set up to practice rib stitching. I only subscribe to the Pietenpol
> news letter and EAA Sport Pilot but seem unable to find the article. Does
> anyone recall seeing such an article.
>
> Thanks for any help
>
> Carol and Ralph
> Raymond
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: copyright SNAFU |
I have watched this discussion with great interest, the pros, the cons,
the good, the bad, the ugly, and much as I want that material myself
I have to agree with Walt. And don't forget, the original plans were
published by Modern Mechanics and Inventions. They were not even
drawn by Bernard. It doesn't appear to me that he was motivated by
money but by the desire to see as many people as possible get out
there flying. So there's a certain amount of confusion just as there is
in the newsletter case. We all agree that the copying of the plans is
morally irreprehensible..... and the newsletter?
My last issue of 8 is Oct 03.
And now on the lighter side. I decided a few weeks ago that since I
could not get at the inside of the fuse when it was on it's right side
and since the weather was uncommonly dry and sunny, And since
there was no way I could deal with the landing gear inside, that a
move was in order. I cleared the way to the door and readied myself.
Picking up the fuselage upside down, like a canoe, with me in the rear
cockpit I proceeded towards that door unable to see anything 3 feet
in front of my shoes.
Miraculously finding the door without hitting it I proceeded outwards.
Wumph! Stuck! Backwards, uh, uh, forewards, forget it. Slowly lowering
the damn thing it settled on the very last 1/2" of an antique log workbench
just outside the door. Coming out from under I saw that it had come up
against one of the posts holding up the ceiling which would not allow a
straight run out the door. Oh! what the %&$#, back under I went, gave a
little kung fu jerk and grunt. POP! out I went, into the backyard, staggering
back and forth, left and right. Somehow I made it to the sawhorses. I'm
not sure which one I felt like, Larry, Moe, or the other guy.
I was afraid to look at it, fearing the worst, but not a scratch!
The weather began to worsen so I bought conduit and those canopy
corner thingies. Now my backyard is filled with a Great White. Call
me Ahab, no, I have both legs, maybe Ishmael?
Jonah, that's it, Jonah. I've been swallowed.
Clif, God help me if the wife ever comes for a visit.
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 1:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: copyright SNAFU
What I don't understand , is that not a week after everyone wanted to lynch a
guy who was selling/stealing Piet plans on the net,,,,,do we condemn a guy who
wants no one to take his copyrighted stuff.
Guess what makes it either right or wrong depends on if we want it or if we'll
lose it.
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: rib stitching |
Experimenter, Nov. 2003, p 44.
A piece of plywood, 4" or 5" deep and 1/2" wide
has round cable staples on one side near the top.
These take the place of holes in fabric. Put one
end in a vise and tie away to your hearts content
as per the Polyfiber manual.
Clif
>
I also saw an illustrated article a few months ago ( I think) that showed
a
> mock set up to practice rib stitching. I only subscribe to the Pietenpol
> news letter and EAA Sport Pilot but seem unable to find the article. Does
> anyone recall seeing such an article.
>
> Thanks for any help
>
> Carol and Ralph
> Raymond
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
It might be easy enough to run another temp tubing and pitot out on the strut,
to see if that makes a difference, I have an ASI that you could mount in a temp
location to try also.
Del
Richard Navratil wrote:Hey all,
I have been having a problem with airspeed readings, the readings are way low.
The main question is that I located my pitot tube thru the leading edge of the
wing. I have been trying to adjust the angle of the tube but so far no improvement.
I know the guage works because readings go up in decent. I have alinged
the tube and bent it to be level at normal flight.
My question is, could it be that that location of the tube is the cause? The tube
extends out about 6" from the LE. I have a GPS and now also installed a
secondary ASI from a ultralite till this is resolved. I have a spare guage and
will also try changing it out.
Dick N.
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Morris <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com> |
Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
Hi.
One simple way to adjust an airspeed reading is to place a washer over
the pitot tube so that it can be adjusted backwards or forwards. The
closer the washer is to the inlet of the tube, the higher your readings
will be. Backing the washer off lets your readings down. Of course,
the other thing you should check is the location of your static port...
-Don
Richard Navratil wrote:
> Hey all,
> I have been having a problem with airspeed readings, the readings are
> way low. The main question is that I located my pitot tube thru the
> leading edge of the wing. I have been trying to adjust the angle of
> the tube but so far no improvement. I know the guage works because
> readings go up in decent. I have alinged the tube and bent it to be
> level at normal flight.
> My question is, could it be that that location of the tube is the
> cause? The tube extends out about 6" from the LE. I have a GPS and
> now also installed a secondary ASI from a ultralite till this is
> resolved. I have a spare guage and will also try changing it out.
> Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Smith <lesmith(at)roanokeinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rib stitching |
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E?OpenDocument
Follow the above link and look at chapter 2. It's the book the Feds would
like for you to follow. It's free online, or as free as our tax dollars
can make it.
At 11:12 PM 8/25/2004, you wrote:
>
>I am looking for information on rib stitching. Some time back (several
>years) I was shown rib stitching that as I recall, pulled the knots under
>the fabric as you progressed to the next stitch. I can't find any
>information on it now that I need it. Can some one help me out on this? I
>also saw an illustrated article a few months ago ( I think) that showed a
>mock set up to practice rib stitching. I only subscribe to the Pietenpol
>news letter and EAA Sport Pilot but seem unable to find the article. Does
>anyone recall seeing such an article.
>
>Thanks for any help
>
>Carol and Ralph
>Raymond
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: flying strut fittings |
Dennis,
If I understand your question,you are first looking for a plan of the strut
fitting. It is located on the supplemental fuse plan for the extended (long )
fuse drawing. The location on the spar can be established with the 1/4 inch
hole in the spar center then rotate the fitting into an angular position with
enough tab below the spar and none protruding above and just line it up with the
lift strut in prolongation. Clear as mud?
Maybe it will help. That's the way I did mine. Not everything like that is
laid out in the plans especially the supplements.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAtAhQUJj1k6TtNcLnizWYSBKc9a0nxZwIVALbMSY25HRMrZ16bDaRsR7Z6HG1s
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Jim: We have a wood guru near by. I once asked him the same question. He
told me that it makes no difference which way you run the grain. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rib stitching |
Ralph, have you checked out the Poly Fiber/Stitts handbook and video/DVD?
They're pretty thorough. Rib stitching can be a drag if you're working by
yourself. I developed a method that reduces the running around and the
effort. If you're interested, let me know and I'll supply the
details....Carl Vought
>
> I am looking for information on rib stitching. Some time back (several
> years) I was shown rib stitching that as I recall, pulled the knots under
> the fabric as you progressed to the next stitch. I can't find any
> information on it now that I need it. Can some one help me out on this? I
> also saw an illustrated article a few months ago ( I think) that showed a
> mock set up to practice rib stitching. I only subscribe to the Pietenpol
> news letter and EAA Sport Pilot but seem unable to find the article. Does
> anyone recall seeing such an article.
>
> Thanks for any help
>
> Carol and Ralph
> Raymond
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
Niggling about not getting change back from a $10 bill for newsletters not mailed
BPANewsletters from Grant. I have yet to see the quality in any other newsletter
and the volume of little hints and kinks were more useful than this list has
put out in the several years I've been listening. Grant never had a skimpy newsletter
because of a lack of participation from us, he worked at filling it
with good info on his own. He was always willing to answer questions and recommend
places to go for answers. Remember, he was a self-avowed non-aviation person!!
I have bemoaned his relinquishing the reins ever since he quit and always remind
him of the great asset he was to the entire Piet community whenever I see him.
I doubt if we will ever see the quality that he brought to the subscribers
again.
My unfulfilled subscription was a small price to pay for the outstanding legacy
he left.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Dick-- I have my airspeed tube (a 1/4" od steel tube) out there on the
wing LE too about 3 ribs in from the end. I plugged the static port with
a threaded
plug and then drilled a No. 60 hole in it. Do you have a cover over your
instruments or does the back of your airspeed get all the wind from the
front cockpit ? Wonder if you just disconnected the tubing and blew thru
it ? The instrument might be out of calibration too.......even tho it
moves. Is it used, new ?
I indicate ( verified closely by gps during a calm eve) 29 power off
stall, 72 cruise with a 65 hp and a wood 72"x42 pitch prop. My VNE is
250 kts.
Mike C.
kidding
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Amen Larry Williams. And on the plans---- direct from Donald
Pietenpol: the family DOES carry a copyright on the plans and they
are aware of the pirates out there making copies but like with the
newsletters, it would be a hassle and most likely too costly to prosecute.
And Larry---- you actually have a flying Pietenpol.........which I regard
very highly, in addition with any of you who are building, not just talking.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 8/25/04 10:30:17 PM Central Daylight Time,
horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:
<< Hey all,
I have been having a problem with airspeed readings, the readings are way
low. The main question is that I located my pitot tube thru the leading edge of
the wing. I have been trying to adjust the angle of the tube but so far no
improvement. I know the guage works because readings go up in decent. I have
alinged the tube and bent it to be level at normal flight.
My question is, could it be that that location of the tube is the cause? >>
Richard,
My first hunch is that your static port is in a positive pressure area - once
you are airborne. As you decend, the positive pressure area becomes neutral.
Where is your static port ? Is your altimeter and airspeed static port
plumbed together ? Is your altimeter reading accurately, or does it read lower
than you actually are - once you are airborne at several thousand feet ? Does
the altimeter needle bounce, or move rapidly ?
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: copyright SNAFU |
I think the issue is whether or not it's really *his* stuff. There is
also the issue of the plans being a specific design traceable to a
single entity via O.H., whereas the newsletter is more of a compilation
of submitted wisdom with some pertinent editorial work. I thought this
was an interesting cognitive-dissonance situation as well (it is), but
can see the substantive differences with actual ownership of the
intellectual material. Copyright lies with the creator of the work (as
long as he's not being paid to create for an entity such as a
newspaper), even if that is in the form of a letter to the editor of a
newsletter (where the newsletter is basically given the permission to
copy and distribute). Copyright issues are considerably more complex
than that, but hopefully you get the gist of it and can see where there
may be ownership issues with the newsletter content. I don't see why he
simply doesn't grant permission to copy it, since he wasn't making any
money off of it and a goodly portion of the content wasn't his, unless
he's worried about the liability of having his name on something that
someone someday gets hurt or killed in. Or maybe even if somebody wants
to copy his stuff, then it could be arranged to send him a buck or
two....
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> wbeevans(at)verizon.net Wednesday, August 25, 2004 3:57:23 PM >>>
What I don't understand , is that not a week after everyone wanted to
lynch a guy who was selling/stealing Piet plans on the net,,,,,do we
condemn a guy who wants no one to take his copyrighted stuff.
Guess what makes it either right or wrong depends on if we want it or
if we'll lose it.
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Thanks to Mike Del and Chuck
My static port is directly on the ASI, there is a headrest in front of it to block
wind. The altimiter is fine doesnt bounce around and seems accurate. I drilled
a hole in the plug as Mike described, I will try enlarging it a bit.
I will order a spare pitot tube and install a temp secondary guage as Del suggested.
I have a spare guage.
The reason I brought this point up is, I chatted with P.F. Beck offline on this
point. He has pitot in the same location and had the same problem, which cleared
up with a new pitot tube.
Del, I was out flying last night and if conditions permit will go again on Sat.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | pietenpol airspeed |
Richard
Just a guess but do you have a pitot tube that has the static line attached
to it as well. A high static reading will give you a low airspeed reading.
I don't have any experience with your problem but I know how it works and
this seems like a logical explanation.
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | ahah ! the old grommet trick |
<000c01c48b1c$ce504a10$0600a8c0@laptop>
Don-- you are right on about the washer thing over the airspeed probe. We
cured a lousy airspeed reading in an
old Champ by slipping a small rubber grommet over the pitot tube and
(tough work but somebody had to do it) then
we flew, adjusted, flew, adjusted, flew, flew, flew.
Mike C.
>Hi.
>
>One simple way to adjust an airspeed reading is to place a washer over the
>pitot tube so that it can be adjusted backwards or forwards. The closer
>the washer is to the inlet of the tube, the higher your readings will
>be. Backing the washer off lets your readings down. Of course, the other
>thing you should check is the location of your static port...
>
>-Don
>
>Richard Navratil wrote:
>>Hey all,
>>I have been having a problem with airspeed readings, the readings are way
>>low. The main question is that I located my pitot tube thru the leading
>>edge of the wing. I have been trying to adjust the angle of the tube but
>>so far no improvement. I know the guage works because readings go up in
>>decent. I have alinged the tube and bent it to be level at normal flight.
>>My question is, could it be that that location of the tube is the
>>cause? The tube extends out about 6" from the LE. I have a GPS and now
>>also installed a secondary ASI from a ultralite till this is resolved. I
>>have a spare guage and will also try changing it out.
>>Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
The static air reference pressure behind the instrument panel is rarely the same
as (not relevant to) the ambient air pressure. For the gauge to indicate properly,
the static port should be in a location that is representative of the
ambient air.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duane Owens" <dowens(at)icehouse.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Grant redux
Amen Larry Williams. And on the plans---- direct from Donald Pietenpol: the
family DOES carry a copyright on the plans and they
are aware of the pirates out there making copies but like with the newsletters,
it would be a hassle and most likely too costly to prosecute.
And Larry---- you actually have a flying Pietenpol.........which I regard very
highly, in addition with any of you who are building, not just talking.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Advice for a first flight? |
Not the first flight of the airplane itself, MY first
flight in a Pietenpol.......
When I get the Howard Henderson/Joe Santana airplane
back here in Missouri, I will put her back together
and find someone to prop her and feel my way around
the runway by taxiing, then ultimately I will throw
caution to the winds and commit to a takeoff.
I have no (nearby) opportunity to take any Cub time,
and I have been told that the Piet is more "Cub like"
than "Champ like" (which is the airplane I learned to
fly in in 1964.
BTW, I fly a lot, but my current plane is a Bonanza,
which a small child could land blindfolded and half
asleep.
Any suggestions? Even snide remarks are welcome.
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
_______________________________
Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Advice for a first flight? |
Whatever you do... lower the nose.
--
Terry L. Bowden
has 0.5 hrs stick time in a corvair Piet 10 yrs ago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Morris <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com> |
Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
Mike -
I'm probably not the first to question it, but Vne = 250 kts? You must
have the 3 piece wing, and have forgotten to install the outboard sections.
(grin)
-Don
Michael D Cuy wrote:
> Dick-- I have my airspeed tube (a 1/4" od steel tube) out there on
> the wing LE too about 3 ribs in from the end. I plugged the static
> port with a threaded
> plug and then drilled a No. 60 hole in it. Do you have a cover over
> your instruments or does the back of your airspeed get all the wind
> from the
> front cockpit ? Wonder if you just disconnected the tubing and blew
> thru it ? The instrument might be out of calibration too.......even
> tho it moves. Is it used, new ?
>
> I indicate ( verified closely by gps during a calm eve) 29 power off
> stall, 72 cruise with a 65 hp and a wood 72"x42 pitch prop. My VNE
> is 250 kts.
>
> Mike C.
>
> kidding
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
is this why the pitot/static tube I bought from Aircraft spruce has 2 1/4"
tubes brazed together in the shape of an "L". One benig open for pitot and
one sealed shut with a small hole for static?? This way they are in the
same air huh?
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
>
> The static air reference pressure behind the instrument panel is rarely
the same as (not relevant to) the ambient air pressure. For the gauge to
indicate properly, the static port should be in a location that is
representative of the ambient air.
> --
> Terry L. Bowden
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
DJ,
Can you send a picture? What you describe sounds pretty standard. Take a look
at a Champ sometime and look at the factory pitot/static system.
The intent is for the static port to be a reference sample of the "still" air environment
(ambient) that the airplane is flying in. The gauge indicates airspeed
as a function of the difference between the "ram" air pressure and the "ambient"
air pressure. The gauge markings are in MPH or knots...but could also
be marked in inches of mercury (pressure).
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
I should add that depending on the location of your static port, the reference
static pressure may be influenced by air pressure fluctuations due to turbulence
etc.. Or in the case of the backside of the panel, the pressure could actually
be lower or higher than the ambient air due to the propwash and airflow inside
and around the fuselage.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Advice for a first flight? |
Let me be the first to say, dont do it.
When I got mine signed off in April, I wanted to get it out right away and
asked the same questions. I had been flying a twin for the last 7 years
with a modest 1200 time. The group here advised me to get someone to test
fly off the first 10+ hours which probably was the best advice. I had to
transport the plane to another airport for the test area and re-assemble. I
took my time and got adequate instruction in a Champ with a C-90. I flew
from the rear seat, instruments being in the front. I could only see the
tops on the ASI and Tach. I did over 100 takeoffs and landings and my
instructor gave lots of help with things to expect. The Champ is heavier
and has a larger engine but the handling is similar.
There is a lot to know for a taildragger. Before I even attempt a wheel
landing I'm going back for a refresher.
Be safe.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Advice for a first flight?
>
>
> Not the first flight of the airplane itself, MY first
> flight in a Pietenpol.......
>
> When I get the Howard Henderson/Joe Santana airplane
> back here in Missouri, I will put her back together
> and find someone to prop her and feel my way around
> the runway by taxiing, then ultimately I will throw
> caution to the winds and commit to a takeoff.
>
> I have no (nearby) opportunity to take any Cub time,
> and I have been told that the Piet is more "Cub like"
> than "Champ like" (which is the airplane I learned to
> fly in in 1964.
>
> BTW, I fly a lot, but my current plane is a Bonanza,
> which a small child could land blindfolded and half
> asleep.
>
> Any suggestions? Even snide remarks are welcome.
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
> _______________________________
> Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jake Crause" <admin(at)homebuiltairplanes.com> |
| Subject: | BPA Newsletter Copyright |
report
Hey folks,
I'm very new to the Pietenpol and very excited about getting started. I
just wanted to say that some folks may be under the impression that you
can still buy back-issues from Grant. I was under that impression as
well because of what is listed on his website. However, a few weeks ago
Grant let me know even the back issues are no longer available. This
was a very big blow to me because I'm one of those people that like to
read everything I can on something before I get started. Just knowing
that there is a full set of great newsletters out there but, because I
got in the game late, they are not available to me really burns me up.
I for one really do not care whether Grant holds the legal rights to the
newsletter or not - I would gladly pay him or someone he has sold the
"rights" to if I could just get my hands on that info! However, out of
respect for what Grant has done, I won't buy or accept "unauthorized
copies.
Grant, if your listening, would you consider making back issues
available again or transfer that right to someone else so that folks
like me who need the info can get it? It would be a shame to let all of
your hard work go to waste. Thanks.
Jake Crause
I
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter Copyright |
I might be interested in buying the rights to the newsletter if Grant would
contact me. I too was smitten by the Pietenpol bug last year.
When I discovered the news letter and back copies were no longer available, I
was a bit discouraged. Because of my inability to access information (partly)
and my own stupidity and haste, I made a bad purchase on a "new" dog of a
Pietenpol that had been through the FSDO process but never flown. Maybe if I had
a pile of newsletters to read, I would have done things differently and made
a more enlightened decision.
Grant is not to blame for anything! Typically when someone submits info to a
newsletter, or a magazine or a newspaper or CBS NEWS, the stuff that goes into
the newsletter (or on TV) becomes the property of the publisher, regardless
of the fact if the person who submitted the info was compensated or not. Even
if you submit a photo, you typically surrender all rights to the publication
that prints it in their magazine, newsletter, brochure, etc, unless you have
signed a contract to suggest otherwise. (Been there, done that for 30 years...)
I say lets cut Grant some slack and back off. I'd also say, there are a lot
of people out there in Air Camper Land that could greatly benefit from the
info. Grant probably worked his butt off on putting the newsletter out each month.
And for a measly $2.50 a copy, he wasn't getting rich.
I suspect this Grant just loved Bernard's airplane and wanted to help folks.
Maybe Grant is burned out, maybe he won the Wisconsin lotto and is living on
an island somewhere drinking ice cold Coronas, but what ever ... the guy
deserves some slack... After all, he developed a website and paid out of his own
pocket to have it up and running and many of us have used his website, never
paying him a dime.
Grant ... if you are out there in binary land, please contact me off line and
tell me what you need in compensation for the rights. Maybe I can keep people
off your ass and in their hangers where they belong (or garages, dens, living
rooms ... where ever ... building Air Campers). This way, maybe everybody
would be happy?
If I started a newsletter, I only wish I could live up to everybody's
expectations. I suspect not everyone would be happy because there a few soreheads
lurking in Air Camper World. But if folks had access to the info and if an Air
Camper newsletter could continue, at least some builders might benefit.
Lastly, if I put out a newsletter, it would contain useful info and people
would have to put up with my warped sense of humor! Lets face it, an Air Camper
ain't a serious airplane but it's probably one of the most fun things that
ever lifted off the face of the earth. And I think a newsletter should not be
designed for anal-retentive people only. It can contain technical info while
keeping a smile on the face and a wrench in the hand. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd
like to challenge anyone to step up to the plate and take over where Grant left
off. But if I do a news letter, anal-retentives need not subscribe!
Sterling Brooks
Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch
5TA6, San Antonio Sectional
www.byop.com
www.sterlingbrooks.tv
www.tacoloco.us (coming soon)
www.dumpeddogs.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter Copyright |
Grants email seems to be...
GMacLaren(at)aol.com
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: KTS5TA6(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BPA Newsletter Copyright
I might be interested in buying the rights to the newsletter if Grant would contact
me. I too was smitten by the Pietenpol bug last year.
When I discovered the news letter and back copies were no longer available, I
was a bit discouraged. Because of my inability to access information (partly)
and my own stupidity and haste, I made a bad purchase on a "new" dog of a Pietenpol
that had been through the FSDO process but never flown. Maybe if I had
a pile of newsletters to read, I would have done things differently and made
a more enlightened decision.
Grant is not to blame for anything! Typically when someone submits info to a
newsletter, or a magazine or a newspaper or CBS NEWS, the stuff that goes into
the newsletter (or on TV) becomes the property of the publisher, regardless of
the fact if the person who submitted the info was compensated or not. Even
if you submit a photo, you typically surrender all rights to the publication that
prints it in their magazine, newsletter, brochure, etc, unless you have signed
a contract to suggest otherwise. (Been there, done that for 30 years...)
I say lets cut Grant some slack and back off. I'd also say, there are a lot of
people out there in Air Camper Land that could greatly benefit from the info.
Grant probably worked his butt off on putting the newsletter out each month.
And for a measly $2.50 a copy, he wasn't getting rich.
I suspect this Grant just loved Bernard's airplane and wanted to help folks.
Maybe Grant is burned out, maybe he won the Wisconsin lotto and is living on an
island somewhere drinking ice cold Coronas, but what ever ... the guy deserves
some slack... After all, he developed a website and paid out of his own pocket
to have it up and running and many of us have used his website, never paying
him a dime.
Grant ... if you are out there in binary land, please contact me off line and
tell me what you need in compensation for the rights. Maybe I can keep people
off your ass and in their hangers where they belong (or garages, dens, living
rooms ... where ever ... building Air Campers). This way, maybe everybody would
be happy?
If I started a newsletter, I only wish I could live up to everybody's expectations.
I suspect not everyone would be happy because there a few soreheads lurking
in Air Camper World. But if folks had access to the info and if an Air Camper
newsletter could continue, at least some builders might benefit.
Lastly, if I put out a newsletter, it would contain useful info and people would
have to put up with my warped sense of humor! Lets face it, an Air Camper
ain't a serious airplane but it's probably one of the most fun things that ever
lifted off the face of the earth. And I think a newsletter should not be designed
for anal-retentive people only. It can contain technical info while keeping
a smile on the face and a wrench in the hand. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd like
to challenge anyone to step up to the plate and take over where Grant left
off. But if I do a news letter, anal-retentives need not subscribe!
Sterling Brooks
Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch
5TA6, San Antonio Sectional
www.byop.com
www.sterlingbrooks.tv
www.tacoloco.us (coming soon)
www.dumpeddogs.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flying strut fittings |
Thanks Corky:
I am not much of a communicator. I have the plans, just want to know where they
go on the spar. I will try what you suggested. Want to make the attach point
about 1/4" longer though.
Dennis E
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:54 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying strut fittings
Dennis,
If I understand your question,you are first looking for a plan of the strut fitting.
It is located on the supplemental fuse plan for the extended (long ) fuse
drawing. The location on the spar can be established with the 1/4 inch hole
in the spar center then rotate the fitting into an angular position with enough
tab below the spar and none protruding above and just line it up with the
lift strut in prolongation. Clear as mud?
Maybe it will help. That's the way I did mine. Not everything like that is laid
out in the plans especially the supplements.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | plastic conduit for instrument wiring |
here's where I ended up getting the clear plastic tubing for my engine
instrument wiring.
http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=142&
About $10 and that included shipping. I got the 3/4" square tubing. It's
gonna do the job nicely.
DJ V.
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: pietenpol airspeed |
No, I just drilled a small hole in the plug on the static side as some
others have done. I will try a few changes this weekend and report back.
Again, thanks all, for the input, you all know how much it helps sometimes
to get this feedback in totally looking at a problem. I'll try multiple
flights on Saturday to work out the bugs.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: pietenpol airspeed
>
> Richard
> Just a guess but do you have a pitot tube that has the static line
attached
> to it as well. A high static reading will give you a low airspeed reading.
> I don't have any experience with your problem but I know how it works and
> this seems like a logical explanation.
> Les
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | gascolator location |
it's pretty tight down by the bottom end of my firewall. I'm trying to get
the gascolator as low as possible...... I know that typically you are
supposed to put it as low as possible without it protruding from beneath the
firewall.
The optimum location for mine puts the bottom edge of the gascolator about
1" below the firewall. How strict is the rule of keeping it above the
bottom firewall line? I could move it higher but not by much.
I knwo the reasoning is that if the landing gear ripped out it could also
rip off the gascolator... BUT If the landing gear was to be ripped off it
would most likely happen in a loss of power forced landing in which case the
fuel tank shut off valve would be put into the closed position before the
attempted landing anyway.
Some opinions here please.... keep it a tad low or make a miracle happen
and find a way to raise it????
DJ V.
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hayes, Mike" <Mike.Hayes(at)denco.co.uk> |
| Subject: | How to Taxi a Piet |
Dear Chaps,
Thought you might find this photograph amusing. Its the only way I know to
taxi a Pietenpol in a 20 knot wind - especially when you have no brakes! Got
the Air Traffic Controllers scratching their heads anyway.
Mike Hayes
G-BKVO
In rainy UK
<>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: How to Taxi a Piet |
Allo, Mike Hayes----great photo and great way to taxi in a 20 knot
Keep em' coming !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAtAhQ5YXOSUmjUDJsfknalvBNVPmaJxgIVALKliXBdWI3FXnZpK8OeM+Btl750
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
I placed my gascolater with the drain valve a half an inch or so above
the bottom of the fus. I forgot to consider the up slope of the bottom
of my cowling. ( Ford A motor ) Now when I make the cover for the
access hole I am going to have to hammer a dimple into it. It's
something to remember when placing it.. Does any one have an extra
Brodhead 04 button that they would sell? This is the one with BHP's
picture on it. I seem to have lost mine. Leon S. Nickerson Ks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary W Meadows <garymead(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Newsletter/incomplete plans |
Hey everybody! I just had an idea, which, while not only is it unusual, it's also
especially painful for one so unaccustomed to the experience. But this is really
my original idea and you can't copy it (who'd want to!):
For those of us who have no *legal* copies of the newsletters AND are having to
build an airplane from this set of incomplete, old, archaic plans (that have
been used to 70 years or so to build airplanes just fine), when we have a question
and don't have a newsletter, why don't we just search Matronics OR even
ask on the list!! Then someone who does have the newsletters, or a set of COMPLETE
plans, or maybe even building experience (gasp!) can post an answer to that
question and everyone else can benefit too!!!
Maybe, you can even sit and ponder and scratch your head and figure the problem
out for yourself! NAW...... that'd be too hard.
This whole building and talking about it thing is supposed to be fun!
Makes me wonder how even a SINGLE Pietenpol was built before BPA or the internet.....
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
I'll shut up now and go back to lurking and trying to get straight-axle gear finished
on my PIet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gascolator location |
In a message dated 8/26/04 11:40:27 PM Central Daylight Time, djv(at)imagedv.com
writes:
<< it's pretty tight down by the bottom end of my firewall. I'm trying to
get
the gascolator as low as possible...... I know that typically you are
supposed to put it as low as possible without it protruding from beneath the
firewall.
The optimum location for mine puts the bottom edge of the gascolator about
1" below the firewall. How strict is the rule of keeping it above the
bottom firewall line? I could move it higher but not by much.
I knwo the reasoning is that if the landing gear ripped out it could also
rip off the gascolator... BUT If the landing gear was to be ripped off it
would most likely happen in a loss of power forced landing in which case the
fuel tank shut off valve would be put into the closed position before the
attempted landing anyway.
Some opinions here please.... keep it a tad low or make a miracle happen
and find a way to raise it???? >>
DJ,
Mounting the gascolator below the firewall is not even an option. In the
intrest of safety, and good design, you MUST mount the gascolator, as well
as
the push valve, above the bottom of the firewall.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | quick- build Pietenpol kit in 2005 ! |
DJ, Group--- I'm sorry. I was just kidding about the quick build kit
thing and the Pietnepol family. Bernard did actually sell
kits I guess at one time and I know a guy who did a restoration of a Piet
that Bernie built out of one of his 'left over' kits and
he told me how the numbers were still stamped on each part. Kinda cool.
No, no quick build kits coming anytime soon I'm afraid. Nor complete
hardware kits. That would be impossible !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
My question pertains to the " 3 piece wing supplement" sheet for the Piet
plans drawn by V J Kapler 1978, revised by Dick G Cason 1982. On the fitting for
the spar end it shows and directs that a weld be made on the top side of the
long angular piece. Question: Why would it not be better to weld this vertical
strap piece to the lower edge thereby having the angular strap and the
vertical strap on the same flat surface??? As I'm fabing these parts now I would
sure appreciate some feed back on this one.
Corky in his La. shop very dirty, grimy, sootie and all those things that
make Piet building so much fun.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
"Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft"
<000901c48bf0$21263320$0100a8c0@Desktop>
| Subject: | Re: gascolator location |
Not sure about the best building practices, but I figured where the bottom
cowl came to and put the drain about flush with it. Made the cowl hole just
big enough to fit my "push finger" in and drain some fuel. Also the clear
drain cup will fit in as well.
Just keep in mind that to make it lower does not supply more fuel to the
carb It's the height of fuel in the tank that determines that.
(Just as long as the fuel line always travels level or downward between the
tank and the gascollater. If you bring it up at any point thats where the
water lays, cause it can't climb the hill, and if nothing else it will
freeze in the winter)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gascolator location
>
> it's pretty tight down by the bottom end of my firewall. I'm trying to
get
> the gascolator as low as possible...... I know that typically you are
> supposed to put it as low as possible without it protruding from beneath
the
> firewall.
>
> The optimum location for mine puts the bottom edge of the gascolator about
> 1" below the firewall. How strict is the rule of keeping it above the
> bottom firewall line? I could move it higher but not by much.
>
> I knwo the reasoning is that if the landing gear ripped out it could also
> rip off the gascolator... BUT If the landing gear was to be ripped off it
> would most likely happen in a loss of power forced landing in which case
the
> fuel tank shut off valve would be put into the closed position before the
> attempted landing anyway.
>
> Some opinions here please.... keep it a tad low or make a miracle happen
> and find a way to raise it????
>
> DJ V.
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Morris <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com> |
Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
| Subject: | Re: Design question |
Hi.
I was looking at that very sheet earlier today. Let my pose my possible
answer. One set of the straps will have to be set wider than the other
set - so the set on the center section is chosen. The cabane strut
fitting becomes the spacer as well, to hold the outer pair just far
enough apart to slip over the inside pair. That is how I understand it...
-Don
Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
> Pieters,
>
> My question pertains to the " 3 piece wing supplement" sheet for the
> Piet plans drawn by V J Kapler 1978, revised by Dick G Cason 1982. On
> the fitting for the spar end it shows and directs that a weld be made
> on the top side of the long angular piece. Question: Why would it not
> be better to weld this vertical strap piece to the lower edge thereby
> having the angular strap and the vertical strap on the same flat
> surface??? As I'm fabing these parts now I would sure appreciate some
> feed back on this one.
>
> Corky in his La. shop very dirty, grimy, sootie and all those things
> that make Piet building so much fun.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Design question |
Corky,
I was just picking my brain and seem to remember that part, cause it was very
confusing to me. Below the angled steel strap (towards the bottom of the spar)
is another piece of plywood. Like a triangle piece, and the same thickness as
the angled strap. The strap lays right along it, and the top surfaces of the
strap and the ply are at the same height. So when you weld the straps together,
the top strap (verticle one) lays on the angled strap and continues down
to lay on the plywood, of the same thickness. whew!
Don't know if this makes sense, but the confusion to me was not realizing that
there was another piece of ply ( a triangle) that was vertically below the angled
strap. whew,whew!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 2:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Design question
Pieters,
My question pertains to the " 3 piece wing supplement" sheet for the Piet plans
drawn by V J Kapler 1978, revised by Dick G Cason 1982. On the fitting for
the spar end it shows and directs that a weld be made on the top side of the
long angular piece. Question: Why would it not be better to weld this vertical
strap piece to the lower edge thereby having the angular strap and the vertical
strap on the same flat surface??? As I'm fabing these parts now I would sure
appreciate some feed back on this one.
Corky in his La. shop very dirty, grimy, sootie and all those things that make
Piet building so much fun.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Design question |
Don,
Thanks for the input. Not to argue but to debate the point, I plan to use
1/16 th gussett plates on the C/S spar and 1/8 on the match ing wing spar with
enough bend on the wing fittings to overlap the C/S fittings which will have a
bushing welded in.
My reasoning was to eliminate that overlaping steel and merely cut the
vertical strap much shorter and weld to the lower side of strap fitting. That's
the
way I'll probably do it but thanks for your input.
Corky in La with NX311 on the gear.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | StvWaite(at)aol.com |
Larry,
I'm going to assume you are current in small taildraggers or will get a
check-out before flying the Piet. From your comments that you learned in a Champ
I'll assume if you're not current it would come back quickly. For Pietenpol
specific advice, check the archives of the list. Corky's test pilot, a Mr.
Edwin Johnson (I hope I've spelled that correctly,) wrote a detailed flying
evaluation of 41CC a while ago. I'd put in my two cents but seeing as the
plans are still in the closet and I haven't started construction yet, it wouln
not be worth the electrons it took to transmit.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How to Taxi a Piet |
Good one there Mike.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hayes, Mike" <Mike.Hayes(at)denco.co.uk>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: How to Taxi a Piet
> Dear Chaps,
>
> Thought you might find this photograph amusing. Its the only way I know to
> taxi a Pietenpol in a 20 knot wind - especially when you have no brakes!
Got
> the Air Traffic Controllers scratching their heads anyway.
>
> Mike Hayes
> G-BKVO
> In rainy UK
>
> <>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grain of wood |
I talked to a local shop teacher just the other day about the same thing.
He said it didn't make a difference which way the grain (end grain) went.
What did make a difference he said was if the grain ended abruptly through
the length of the piece. In other words, you should be able to follow a
grain all the way through the length of a piece from one end to the other.
If you have "aircraft grade" wood this should not be a problem. In my case
all was OK.
That being said, I laid my longerons with the end grain horizontal to the
ground. In my thinking this allows the wood to flex in the "up/down"
direction when the tail hits the ground verses laying them cross grain which
in my opinion would disipate the energy to one constant and specific point
somewhere along the longeron. A microscopic issue to be sure, considering
the side trusses disipate the energy by design, but I think a valid point
nonetheless.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary W Meadows <garymead(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | quick- build Pietenpol kit in 2005 ! |
Wayne,
There was a fellow a few years back who made parts for sale for the Piet and a
few others. In pictures, they looked like very nice parts, but I never saw any
in person. I guess he's gone now, his name was Steve something and the outfit
was called Replicraft. I often considered buying some of his steel parts, but
ended up cutting my own. He even sold fuselages and rib sets and quite a bit
of other stuff. I don't know if there's a market or not.
I did buy a very nice set of hubs from Ken Perkins and will get them laced into
wheels when I get the rims together. For me, it's basically doing whatever is
fun and interesting. I didn't want to mess with the hubs cause I ain't that
great a welder and I'm not a machinist at all, so I jumped at the chance to buy
a set of hubs. I may not make my engine mount either - we'll see. I know Mike
Cuy farmed out a few projects on his own plane. But then, so did Orville and
WIlbur, it ain't no thaing. Just have fun! If you haven't started yet, get some
sticks and start building ribs - after 28-30 ribs, anything will seem like
fun!
Good luck with your project!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
are there plans anywhere for a flop or does everyone just make it the same size
as the ailerons?
Dennis E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
on my GN-1 I made mine go from the rear spar back
see here:
http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/01-26-04.htm
DJ Vegh
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Engelkenjohn
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 1:27 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: flop
are there plans anywhere for a flop or does everyone just make it the same size
as the ailerons?
Dennis E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
One thing I haven't heard anybody address is that the air coming into the leading
edge of a wing DOES NOT approach from straight ahead. There is a strong upwash
ahead of the wing and strong downwash behind it. As the angle of attack
increases the stagnation point on the leading edge (the point where the air is
hitting the airfoil straight on and splits with some going over and the rest
going under) moves down. That is one very good reason you don't see so many planes
with the air speed probe mounted on the front of the wing. You have to
get the end of the tube well out in front of the leading edge to get straight
in flow. If the flow is hitting the end of the probe at an angle you get a lower
air speed indication. If you look at production test aircraft you will see
really long booms sticking out in front with a gadget on the front that weathervanes
into the air flow. This keeps the air going straight into the pitot
tube so they can adjust the production pitot to have minimum error. With a boom
it is pretty easy to optimize the pitot tube but the static port is still pretty
much black magic. You have to get the pressure at the port to be the same
as the free stream pressure in all attitudes. For us, that is a real pain.
Using an open static port in the back of the instrument is probably a really
BAD way to do it but if it's consistent it works. You may be stalling at 10
MPH different than what's indicated, but who cares if it always stalls at the
same indicated speed? In this case you optimize for cruise accuracy and let the
stall be off (but consistent). One BIG problem is with a passenger in front
you should expect the airspeed to be different and each new shape passenger
will change the ASI. In my Taylorcraft I can fly faster with the passenger window
open and slower with the pilots window open. With both open I can't read
the ASI so I'm not sure what is happening. ;-)
Hank (At least the ASI says I'm faster and slower) J
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: airspeed
Hey all,
I have been having a problem with airspeed readings, the readings are way low.
The main question is that I located my pitot tube thru the leading edge of
the wing. I have been trying to adjust the angle of the tube but so far no improvement.
I know the guage works because readings go up in decent. I have alinged
the tube and bent it to be level at normal flight.
My question is, could it be that that location of the tube is the cause? The
tube extends out about 6" from the LE. I have a GPS and now also installed
a secondary ASI from a ultralite till this is resolved. I have a spare guage
and will also try changing it out.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
My tube extends at least 6" out from LE. I made some modfications this morning
but was grounded in the morning by rain and heavy traffic from a head bangin rock
concert in the area this aftrenoon.
Will try again on Mon.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: airspeed
One thing I haven't heard anybody address is that the air coming into the leading
edge of a wing DOES NOT approach from straight ahead. There is a strong
upwash ahead of the wing and strong downwash behind it. As the angle of attack
increases the stagnation point on the leading edge (the point where the air
is hitting the airfoil straight on and splits with some going over and the rest
going under) moves down. That is one very good reason you don't see so many
planes with the air speed probe mounted on the front of the wing. You have to
get the end of the tube well out in front of the leading edge to get straight
in flow. If the flow is hitting the end of the probe at an angle you get a
lower air speed indication. If you look at production test aircraft you will
see really long booms sticking out in front with a gadget on the front that weathervanes
into the air flow. This keeps the air going straight into the pitot
tube so they can adjust the production pitot to have minimum error. With a
boom it is pretty easy to optimize the pitot tube but the static port is still
pretty much black magic. You have to get the pressure at the port to be the
same as the free stream pressure in all attitudes. For us, that is a real pain.
Using an open static port in the back of the instrument is probably a really
BAD way to do it but if it's consistent it works. You may be stalling at 10
MPH different than what's indicated, but who cares if it always stalls at the
same indicated speed? In this case you optimize for cruise accuracy and let
the stall be off (but consistent). One BIG problem is with a passenger in front
you should expect the airspeed to be different and each new shape passenger
will change the ASI. In my Taylorcraft I can fly faster with the passenger
window open and slower with the pilots window open. With both open I can't read
the ASI so I'm not sure what is happening. ;-)
Hank (At least the ASI says I'm faster and slower) J
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: airspeed
Hey all,
I have been having a problem with airspeed readings, the readings are way low.
The main question is that I located my pitot tube thru the leading edge of
the wing. I have been trying to adjust the angle of the tube but so far no
improvement. I know the guage works because readings go up in decent. I have
alinged the tube and bent it to be level at normal flight.
My question is, could it be that that location of the tube is the cause? The
tube extends out about 6" from the LE. I have a GPS and now also installed
a secondary ASI from a ultralite till this is resolved. I have a spare guage
and will also try changing it out.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: quick- build Pietenpol kit in 2005 ! |
Please, lets not get started on Replicraft again. We just did 4-5 days on copyrights.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary W Meadows
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 10:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: quick- build Pietenpol kit in 2005 !
Wayne,
There was a fellow a few years back who made parts for sale for the Piet and
a few others. In pictures, they looked like very nice parts, but I never saw
any in person. I guess he's gone now, his name was Steve something and the outfit
was called Replicraft. I often considered buying some of his steel parts,
but ended up cutting my own. He even sold fuselages and rib sets and quite a bit
of other stuff. I don't know if there's a market or not.
I did buy a very nice set of hubs from Ken Perkins and will get them laced into
wheels when I get the rims together. For me, it's basically doing whatever
is fun and interesting. I didn't want to mess with the hubs cause I ain't that
great a welder and I'm not a machinist at all, so I jumped at the chance to
buy a set of hubs. I may not make my engine mount either - we'll see. I know Mike
Cuy farmed out a few projects on his own plane. But then, so did Orville and
WIlbur, it ain't no thaing. Just have fun! If you haven't started yet, get
some sticks and start building ribs - after 28-30 ribs, anything will seem like
fun!
Good luck with your project!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals... |
All,
I am laying out the horizontal stabilizer at the present moment. I am finding
that the AS&S kit I received (Modernized Pietenpol) has various errors in wood
lengths and widths of the supplied wood. Long story short, the 1/2" x 3/4" diagonal
braces supplied were only 4' long. As such, the diagonals do not (cannot)
butt up against each other. Am I stuck and have to get longer lengths or
can I do one of the following (see image)...If so, which is the best choice and
why?
Thanks,
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: quick- build Pietenpol kit in 2005 ! |
ahhhh Replicraft! they ran off with $1300 of mine. Fortunatley I paid with
my Mastercard and they ended up reversing the charge but the process was long
and painful.
I don't understand why Steve from Replicraft did such a thing. The quality of
his parts were 110% top notch.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: quick- build Pietenpol kit in 2005 !
Please, lets not get started on Replicraft again. We just did 4-5 days on copyrights.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary W Meadows
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 10:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: quick- build Pietenpol kit in 2005 !
Wayne,
There was a fellow a few years back who made parts for sale for the Piet and
a few others. In pictures, they looked like very nice parts, but I never saw
any in person. I guess he's gone now, his name was Steve something and the outfit
was called Replicraft. I often considered buying some of his steel parts,
but ended up cutting my own. He even sold fuselages and rib sets and quite a
bit of other stuff. I don't know if there's a market or not.
I did buy a very nice set of hubs from Ken Perkins and will get them laced
into wheels when I get the rims together. For me, it's basically doing whatever
is fun and interesting. I didn't want to mess with the hubs cause I ain't that
great a welder and I'm not a machinist at all, so I jumped at the chance to
buy a set of hubs. I may not make my engine mount either - we'll see. I know
Mike Cuy farmed out a few projects on his own plane. But then, so did Orville
and WIlbur, it ain't no thaing. Just have fun! If you haven't started yet, get
some sticks and start building ribs - after 28-30 ribs, anything will seem like
fun!
Good luck with your project!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals... |
I'd go with #2, the end blocks, and cover it all with extended gussets.
The center is where the fuselage and fin mounting takes place so I'd
prefer that to be as original as possible.
I made my tail assy from the flier and glider manual before obtaining
the plans from Don so it's quite different.
Now if my Wicks package would get here I could maybe start on the
landing gear.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Stacy Clark
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 11:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals...
All,
I am laying out the horizontal stabilizer at the present moment. I am finding
that the AS&S kit I received (Modernized Pietenpol) has various errors in wood
lengths and widths of the supplied wood. Long story short, the 1/2" x 3/4"
diagonal braces supplied were only 4' long. As such, the diagonals do not (cannot)
butt up against each other. Am I stuck and have to get longer lengths
or can I do one of the following (see image)...If so, which is the best choice
and why?
Thanks,
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Grain of wood |
<000701c48d13$b782bc70$69aaa1d1@DJQ7LV21>
It will only make a difference in the lower longerons and only
because they will take bending more easily. The bend from the
firewall rearward is fairly pronounced. The bends to bring the
sides together at the tailpost are quite gentle in comparison.
Make sure all four have the grain oriented the same so that all
four will bend equally when bending the sides together. It
appears you have done this already. The fuselage is a bridge
truss so all the triangulations take a portion of the load. That
won't change with grain orientation as you're dealing with
compression and tension loads parallel to the longerons.
Clif
<stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
>
> I talked to a local shop teacher just the other day about the same thing.
> He said it didn't make a difference which way the grain (end grain) went.
> What did make a difference he said was if the grain ended abruptly through
> the length of the piece. In other words, you should be able to follow a
> grain all the way through the length of a piece from one end to the other.
> If you have "aircraft grade" wood this should not be a problem. In my
case
> all was OK.
>
> That being said, I laid my longerons with the end grain horizontal to the
> ground. In my thinking this allows the wood to flex in the "up/down"
> direction when the tail hits the ground verses laying them cross grain
which
> in my opinion would disipate the energy to one constant and specific point
> somewhere along the longeron. A microscopic issue to be sure, considering
> the side trusses disipate the energy by design, but I think a valid point
> nonetheless.
>
> Stacy
>
> There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and
that
> is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
>
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAsAhQUsIWZFLpMyo+D7XwJmyNSvW5ArQIUVY/uMiQp7kw4fdEAMu3ikR0Sy8Y=
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Stacy: I'm building a genuine Model A Piet from the 33 plans with the
J-3 style gear as shown in the plans. My entire landing gear weight (
Hager axels, brakes. V's, shock struts, ATV wheels and tires ) weigh 48
lbs. I couldn't be happier about that. Greg Cardinal recently noted his
wire wheel landing gear weigh 60 lbs. I placed my lower longeron end
grain horizontal thinking that it may be slightly easier to make the bow
shape, then placed the upper longeron end grain vertically to counter
any slight weakness that may occur from having the lower grain
horizontally--although I'm sure there is no difference.--just something
I had in my head. I bought a wood kit from Western Ac. Sup. before he
retired. All sizes and lengths were perfect. All rabbiting of tail wood
was done. I think that was the closest thing to a quick build Piet kit
that we will ever see. I built my landing gear 2 years ago. The only
time it was ever on the fus. was when the fus. was on saw horses. Friday
after the paint dried I put the gear on, removed the saw horses and
rolled it out of the garage for the first time! In the big picture thats
really nothing, but for the first time since I cut wood in 1999 it looks
like an airplane.--except for the cement block tied to he tail to keep
it from falling on its nose. ( the A is on it ) Leon S. Nickerson Ks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals... |
Stacy,
You may want to look ahead and figure out where your hinges are going to be. I
made my stabilizer to plans and found that a couple of the hinges were a dog
to get hardware into. Where a little movement one way or the other would have
been easier.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Stacy Clark
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 2:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals...
All,
I am laying out the horizontal stabilizer at the present moment. I am finding
that the AS&S kit I received (Modernized Pietenpol) has various errors in wood
lengths and widths of the supplied wood. Long story short, the 1/2" x 3/4"
diagonal braces supplied were only 4' long. As such, the diagonals do not (cannot)
butt up against each other. Am I stuck and have to get longer lengths
or can I do one of the following (see image)...If so, which is the best choice
and why?
Thanks,
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals... |
Clif,
That's the one I'm leaning toward as well. It also brings the diagonals further
away from the stringers that are next to the points where the diagonals meet
the center beam -- meaning normal sized gusset (like the plans). On the ends
the gaps are short enough that the regular end gusset should cover the blocks
and diagonals. I also just realized doing it that way "may" provide a backer
for the outside hinge (i.e.: longer mounting bolts)...hmmm. If that's possible
it'll also further stabilze the diagonals too (making them "think" they're
at the end). My only concern is the extra weight being out on the end (maybe
10 oz total) causing flutter...but I know that's just my imagination working overtime.
But in any case you don't think it's something I'd regret later on?
Something I could "live" with in other words? :-)
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
Leon,
That's the route I'm taking as well. "ATV" tires huh? Sounds like
something I need up here in the bush :-)
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals... |
Walt,
See the post I just sent to Clif under this thread. Your comment got me to thinking
about the end hinge -- thanks! Gheez I hope I'm right. I won't know until
I "fluff and buff" and make my way over to the hanger in a few minutes. I'll
let you know.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals... |
Stacy:
I read your E-mail and went downstairs to take a look at my uncovered
stab. Then I came back upstairs and read Clif Dawson's reply. Then I
went back downstairs to take another look at my stab. I would go with
#4. Cause #2 would cause interference with my elevator hinges and # 4
has half as many pieces to deal with. Also, I used the GN-1 idea for
elevator hinges instead of the Piet idea for hinges. The Piet elevator
hinges are more original, but the GN-1 hinges(Eye-bolts) can be
purchased thru AS&S.
Mike L.
Stacy Clark wrote:
> All, I am laying out the horizontal stabilizer at the present moment.
> I am finding that the AS&S kit I received (Modernized Pietenpol) has
> various errors in wood lengths and widths of the supplied wood. Long
> story short, the 1/2" x 3/4" diagonal braces supplied were only 4'
> long. As such, the diagonals do not (cannot) butt up against each
> other. Am I stuck and have to get longer lengths or can I do one of
> the following (see image)...If so, which is the best choice and
> why? Thanks,Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in
> the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Leon,
Your message of the 28th, landing gear weights was informative. I weighed my
split gear this morning. Vs,shock struts, strut divider, wheels, tires, brakes
and axles total 49 lbs. Does not include bolts, washers and nuts.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals... |
Pieters,
May I suggest: When beginning to build the tail feathers cut your spars and
match up. Locate and mark hinge positions. Countersink your hinges, bolt down,
trim for clevis. I'm assuming you will use Kapler's alum hinges.
Then: proceed to built your feathers. Sure makes it easier to have all the
hinges in place when you finish all the other work.
YKW
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals... |
Mike,
Eyebolts huh? Not a bad idea -- never thought of that. Do you have some type
of Teflon washer in between them and as a through-tube as well?
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
hinges
| Subject: | Re: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges |
be very creful with the AN43 eyebolt style hinges. If you do not secure them so
that they can not rotate in the hole you could get a locked up control surface
in flight.
A good way to keep them from rotating is to use the drilled shank version with
a castle nut. instead of putting a cotter pin on it, use a short length of music
wire that has a round loop bent into one end. Slide it through the shank
and use a wood screw through the loop and screw it into lead or trailing edge
spar. It is only necessary to secure one side of the hinge.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Luther
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals...
Stacy:
I read your E-mail and went downstairs to take a look at my uncovered stab.
Then I came back upstairs and read Clif Dawson's reply. Then I went back downstairs
to take another look at my stab. I would go with #4. Cause #2 would cause
interference with my elevator hinges and # 4 has half as many pieces to deal
with. Also, I used the GN-1 idea for elevator hinges instead of the Piet idea
for hinges. The Piet elevator hinges are more original, but the GN-1 hinges(Eye-bolts)
can be purchased thru AS&S.
Mike L.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
hinges
| Subject: | Re: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges |
<41320CA9.5FE55F5E(at)gci.net> <014a01c48e10$a1b9b620$0100a8c0@Desktop>
Looking at the plans again it appears to me that the brace interferes
with the hinge bolts anyway. The block does not have to be very
thick, 1/4" will work fine. If you do decide to go the eyebolt route
the block will be an advantage as the shank doesn't have to go
through the angled brace. It will be in the middle of the block.
Also why would there be much more weight at the end? The bolt
or bolts, depending on the hinge used are only going to be an extra
1/4" long and the block weighs nothing. Another also, the brace wires
attach half way between the two outer hinges ( 11" in from the tip ).
I wish I'd thought of Corky's idea of mounting the hinges beforehand.
Getting nuts down between the gussets will be fun ( crawdads must be
brain food! ). :-)
The yellow Piet in the "Victoria Piets" file on Mykitplane has eyebolts
and is old enough to have been rebuilt and recovered a number of
years ago. No mention of eyebolt or flight problems.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges
be very creful with the AN43 eyebolt style hinges. If you do not secure them
so that they can not rotate in the hole you could get a locked up control surface
in flight.
A good way to keep them from rotating is to use the drilled shank version with
a castle nut. instead of putting a cotter pin on it, use a short length of
music wire that has a round loop bent into one end. Slide it through the shank
and use a wood screw through the loop and screw it into lead or trailing edge
spar. It is only necessary to secure one side of the hinge.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Luther
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals...
Stacy:
I read your E-mail and went downstairs to take a look at my uncovered stab.
Then I came back upstairs and read Clif Dawson's reply. Then I went back downstairs
to take another look at my stab. I would go with #4. Cause #2 would
cause interference with my elevator hinges and # 4 has half as many pieces to
deal with. Also, I used the GN-1 idea for elevator hinges instead of the Piet
idea for hinges. The Piet elevator hinges are more original, but the GN-1 hinges(Eye-bolts)
can be purchased thru AS&S.
Mike L.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals... |
From: Stacy Clark
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals...
Peter,
The problem I have is that the wood supplied by AS&S was too short for the swept
stab (two 1/2" x 3/4" x 48"). Anyway, this is the solution I came up with (attached
jpg's). Have no idea whether my "best guessing" is right, but it looks
like it disipates the energy. In the end I'll probably go back to "as plans"
as I discovered tonight that I'm missing 1" x 1" of suffcient lengths for the
elevators. Which means that as I "have to" order those I might as well order
the stuff for the diagonals as well. (The kit originally had two 1" by's of
sufficient length but they had to be sacrificed for the #6 side trusses as their
"supplied" trusses were all 36" long, i.e.: too short for #6. BTW, had to
rip all those down to 7/8" width [nos. 2 thru 6]).
Word of advise to all that are thinking of going through AS&S for their spruce
kit (3 pc. wing)...don't! If I had to do it over again I would have ordered the
standard Piet with one-piece and modified it to three piece. The way you must
buy it from AS&S with 3-pc wing is with their "Modernized Pietenpol" only.
They clipped me for about $300.00 extra bucks plus I had to eat the material
for the wing ribs which I already had pre-built (maybe I'll build some doll houses).
And of course the added bonus of having to ship it up here in the Alaskan
bush.
...Sorry to vent. (Sill working with, and achieving the impossible...) :-)
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAtAhUAwsSDgttgnXHlFbQfl7Xb8kOKEoICFGIp60Owsnd4Fth+KJVwdLtLHSRJ
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Stacy : I bought a set of atv tundra tires from a place called Flying K
Ent. Caldwell Id. They make (made ? ) a plane called Sky Raider. I wish
I had bought several pairs. The owner of Flying K was killed a couple of
years ago and I don't know if they are still in business. They were the
only source of these tires that I new of and I never tied to figure who
there vendor was. They should last a long time if you land on grass all
the time, but I think paved runways will ware them out in a hurry. They
sure look good in the Piet. Corky: The split gear is the only way to
go if you want to keep the weight down. Originally I was going to use
the Jenny gear, but after reading in the old news letters that the wire
wheels weigh up t 18 lbs each alone, then there is the massive axel to
go with them, I went the other way. I am bound and determined to stick
with the anemic Ford A, so weight savings was crucial. I also dumped the
brass-copper radiator ( 19 lbs ) for a VW Golf radiator at 4 lbs. I sure
hope it all pays dividends in the future. Leon S. in Ks. 6 years into a
2 year project.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | the election and TFR's |
For those of you actively flying, it might be a good idea to check to see
if President Bush is in your area. I found this
site on the FAA's web page that shows the active and upcoming TFR's coming
to a town by you. I was at an airshow in
Toledo this past weekend and after the Thunderbirds landed, Air Force One
landed about 45 minutes later. Luckily, I drove to
the show. http://tfr.faa.gov/tfr/jsp/list.jsp
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andimaxd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | How many ounces does it take |
Group,
I would like some opinions from the "older wiser ones" (more experienced)
who have covered a Piet or two. My thinking ,right now, is to cover the wing
and tail with medium weight (2.8 oz.) and the fuselage with light weight (1.7
oz.). The wing does the work, so I thought it needed to be a heavier grade,
and then cover the body with something light, as it does not take the same
abuse?
Is it necessary to even use medium weight at all? If it is, should I just
use medium weight throughout? Or, if I want to use medium and light weight,
can you put medium weight fabric on the top of the wing and utilize light
weight on the bottom side? The difference in cost between the two is minimal.
Is
there a major difference in weight between the two after covering and
painting? I have been told that the lighter fabric is easier to work with than
the
medium and heavy weights.
The only reason I think I would want heavier fabric on the tail would be for
landing in stalks and heavy weeds on unimproved landing sites.
Having never done this, I feel like I am delving into the dark sciences a
little. I plan on using uncertified dacron and dope, with as few coat as is
practical. I do not want a glass finish, I want the weave to show and would
like four coats, maximum, I think.
I try not to bother the group with trivial questions; please bare with me,
and forgive my ignorance in this matter.
Thanks in advance,
Max L. Davis
Arlington, TX.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
<014a01c48e10$a1b9b620$0100a8c0@Desktop> <004f01c48e5b$565c8a90$42705118@dawsonaviation>
hinges
| Subject: | Re: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges |
>>The yellow Piet in the "Victoria Piets" file on Mykitplane has eyebolts
and is old enough to have been rebuilt and recovered a number of
years ago. No mention of eyebolt or flight problems.
That doesn't mean the eyebolts will never rotate. It takes an extra 5 minutes
to fix it and the consequences of a locked control surface could be fatal. Some
things can be left to fate but respectfully, I disagree and this is not one
those things.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges
Looking at the plans again it appears to me that the brace interferes
with the hinge bolts anyway. The block does not have to be very
thick, 1/4" will work fine. If you do decide to go the eyebolt route
the block will be an advantage as the shank doesn't have to go
through the angled brace. It will be in the middle of the block.
Also why would there be much more weight at the end? The bolt
or bolts, depending on the hinge used are only going to be an extra
1/4" long and the block weighs nothing. Another also, the brace wires
attach half way between the two outer hinges ( 11" in from the tip ).
I wish I'd thought of Corky's idea of mounting the hinges beforehand.
Getting nuts down between the gussets will be fun ( crawdads must be
brain food! ). :-)
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges
be very creful with the AN43 eyebolt style hinges. If you do not secure them
so that they can not rotate in the hole you could get a locked up control surface
in flight.
A good way to keep them from rotating is to use the drilled shank version with
a castle nut. instead of putting a cotter pin on it, use a short length of
music wire that has a round loop bent into one end. Slide it through the shank
and use a wood screw through the loop and screw it into lead or trailing edge
spar. It is only necessary to secure one side of the hinge.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Luther
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals...
Stacy:
I read your E-mail and went downstairs to take a look at my uncovered stab.
Then I came back upstairs and read Clif Dawson's reply. Then I went back
downstairs to take another look at my stab. I would go with #4. Cause #2 would
cause interference with my elevator hinges and # 4 has half as many pieces
to deal with. Also, I used the GN-1 idea for elevator hinges instead of the Piet
idea for hinges. The Piet elevator hinges are more original, but the GN-1
hinges(Eye-bolts) can be purchased thru AS&S.
Mike L.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for Walt Evans |
Walt Evans,
Please contact me offline.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | How many ounces does it take |
Hi Max,
I had the same questions, so when I went to the PolyFiber class at SNF last
year, I asked them. They strongly recommended against using the light
fabric for anything but an ultralight. While it is strong enough for a
Piet, they said it would balloon up too much between the ribs and the
stringers.
Of course, I didn't ask about what you are suggesting, but they could have
recommended covering the fuselage with the light stuff if that is
acceptable.
So I followed their advice and used medium weight throughout. it is tough
stuff, and can certainly withstand a lot of abuse from finger-pokin'
onlookers.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Andimaxd(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: How many ounces does it take
Group,
I would like some opinions from the "older wiser ones" (more experienced)
who have covered a Piet or two. My thinking ,right now, is to cover the
wing and tail with medium weight (2.8 oz.) and the fuselage with light
weight (1.7 oz.). The wing does the work, so I thought it needed to be a
heavier grade, and then cover the body with something light, as it does not
take the same abuse?
Is it necessary to even use medium weight at all? If it is, should I just
use medium weight throughout? Or, if I want to use medium and light weight,
can you put medium weight fabric on the top of the wing and utilize light
weight on the bottom side? The difference in cost between the two is
minimal. Is there a major difference in weight between the two after
covering and painting? I have been told that the lighter fabric is easier
to work with than the medium and heavy weights.
The only reason I think I would want heavier fabric on the tail would be for
landing in stalks and heavy weeds on unimproved landing sites.
Having never done this, I feel like I am delving into the dark sciences a
little. I plan on using uncertified dacron and dope, with as few coat as is
practical. I do not want a glass finish, I want the weave to show and would
like four coats, maximum, I think.
I try not to bother the group with trivial questions; please bare with me,
and forgive my ignorance in this matter.
Thanks in advance,
Max L. Davis
Arlington, TX.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How many ounces does it take |
Max,
Since the max wing loading and max speed far surpass the Piet, I used the light
fabric. It was the uncertified stuff from AS&S, at about $3.10 per running yard
of 62 inches wide. I worked out perfectly.
Just keep in mind that the thicker fabric holds more paint/dope.
My final empty weight was 595#. And nothing flew off yet!
But then again I don't have any rough terrain/stalks to deal with.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 8:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: How many ounces does it take
Group,
I would like some opinions from the "older wiser ones" (more experienced) who
have covered a Piet or two. My thinking ,right now, is to cover the wing and
tail with medium weight (2.8 oz.) and the fuselage with light weight (1.7 oz.).
The wing does the work, so I thought it needed to be a heavier grade, and
then cover the body with something light, as it does not take the same abuse?
Is it necessary to even use medium weight at all? If it is, should I just use
medium weight throughout? Or, if I want to use medium and light weight, can
you put medium weight fabric on the top of the wing and utilize light weight on
the bottom side? The difference in cost between the two is minimal. Is there
a major difference in weight between the two after covering and painting?
I have been told that the lighter fabric is easier to work with than the medium
and heavy weights.
The only reason I think I would want heavier fabric on the tail would be for
landing in stalks and heavy weeds on unimproved landing sites.
Having never done this, I feel like I am delving into the dark sciences a little.
I plan on using uncertified dacron and dope, with as few coat as is practical.
I do not want a glass finish, I want the weave to show and would like
four coats, maximum, I think.
I try not to bother the group with trivial questions; please bare with me, and
forgive my ignorance in this matter.
Thanks in advance,
Max L. Davis
Arlington, TX.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
<014a01c48e10$a1b9b620$0100a8c0@Desktop> <004f01c48e5b$565c8a90$42705118@dawsonaviation>
<021901c48ef4$197aa910$0100a8c0@Desktop>
hinges
| Subject: | Re: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges |
When I was toying with the idea of using the eyebolts, my mentor brought up the
issue of them rotating. So I went with hinges that looked original.
I do kind of like the hinges that are just a strap of steel with the ends bent
at a 90. Both hinges together with the hinge pin thru look like a rectangle.
Very clean looking.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges
>>The yellow Piet in the "Victoria Piets" file on Mykitplane has eyebolts
and is old enough to have been rebuilt and recovered a number of
years ago. No mention of eyebolt or flight problems.
That doesn't mean the eyebolts will never rotate. It takes an extra 5 minutes
to fix it and the consequences of a locked control surface could be fatal. Some
things can be left to fate but respectfully, I disagree and this is not one
those things.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges
Looking at the plans again it appears to me that the brace interferes
with the hinge bolts anyway. The block does not have to be very
thick, 1/4" will work fine. If you do decide to go the eyebolt route
the block will be an advantage as the shank doesn't have to go
through the angled brace. It will be in the middle of the block.
Also why would there be much more weight at the end? The bolt
or bolts, depending on the hinge used are only going to be an extra
1/4" long and the block weighs nothing. Another also, the brace wires
attach half way between the two outer hinges ( 11" in from the tip ).
I wish I'd thought of Corky's idea of mounting the hinges beforehand.
Getting nuts down between the gussets will be fun ( crawdads must be
brain food! ). :-)
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt
hinges
be very creful with the AN43 eyebolt style hinges. If you do not secure
them so that they can not rotate in the hole you could get a locked up control
surface in flight.
A good way to keep them from rotating is to use the drilled shank version
with a castle nut. instead of putting a cotter pin on it, use a short length
of music wire that has a round loop bent into one end. Slide it through the
shank and use a wood screw through the loop and screw it into lead or trailing
edge spar. It is only necessary to secure one side of the hinge.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Luther
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals...
Stacy:
I read your E-mail and went downstairs to take a look at my uncovered stab.
Then I came back upstairs and read Clif Dawson's reply. Then I went back
downstairs to take another look at my stab. I would go with #4. Cause #2 would
cause interference with my elevator hinges and # 4 has half as many pieces
to deal with. Also, I used the GN-1 idea for elevator hinges instead of the
Piet idea for hinges. The Piet elevator hinges are more original, but the GN-1
hinges(Eye-bolts) can be purchased thru AS&S.
Mike L.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Javier Cruz <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx> |
| Subject: | lift strut fittings |
Hi Piets
Hi Dennis
The original plans are for one piece wing, use the suplemental center
seccion so you can get the center point of the semi wing (not the
spar), with this and with the new fittings (long fuselage) the fittings
are inline with the flying struts, double check both ,the one wing plans
and the 3 pieces wing for it, I think that I made on the same way that
Corky.,,
Javier Cruz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net> |
hinges
| Subject: | Re: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges |
<41320CA9.5FE55F5E(at)gci.net> <014a01c48e10$a1b9b620$0100a8c0@Desktop>
DJ Vegh:
Thanks for the advice and your concern for my safety. I will gladly use
your idea. Now is the perfect time for me to do as you suggest, cause I
am ready for final inspection of the wings. Should be ready for fuselage
and tailfeather inspection within a month.
Mike L.
DJ Vegh wrote:
> be very creful with the AN43 eyebolt style hinges. If you do not
> secure them so that they can not rotate in the hole you could get a
> locked up control surface in flight. A good way to keep them from
> rotating is to use the drilled shank version with a castle nut.
> instead of putting a cotter pin on it, use a short length of music
> wire that has a round loop bent into one end. Slide it through the
> shank and use a wood screw through the loop and screw it into lead or
> trailing edge spar. It is only necessary to secure one side of the
> hinge. DJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike Luther
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:04 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab.
> Diagonals...
> Stacy:
>
> I read your E-mail and went downstairs to take a look at my
> uncovered stab. Then I came back upstairs and read Clif
> Dawson's reply. Then I went back downstairs to take another
> look at my stab. I would go with #4. Cause #2 would cause
> interference with my elevator hinges and # 4 has half as
> many pieces to deal with. Also, I used the GN-1 idea for
> elevator hinges instead of the Piet idea for hinges. The
> Piet elevator hinges are more original, but the GN-1
> hinges(Eye-bolts) can be purchased thru AS&S.
>
> Mike L.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
hinges
| Subject: | Re: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges |
<41320CA9.5FE55F5E(at)gci.net> <014a01c48e10$a1b9b620$0100a8c0@Desktop>
<004f01c48e5b$565c8a90$42705118@dawsonaviation>
<021901c48ef4$197aa910$0100a8c0@Desktop>
Oops! They are locked. There's a wood screw in each flange.
I was agreeing with you DJ. Brain must have taken shortcut on
way to mouth.
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges
>>The yellow Piet in the "Victoria Piets" file on Mykitplane has eyebolts
and is old enough to have been rebuilt and recovered a number of
years ago. No mention of eyebolt or flight problems.
That doesn't mean the eyebolts will never rotate. It takes an extra 5 minutes
to fix it and the consequences of a locked control surface could be fatal. Some
things can be left to fate but respectfully, I disagree and this is not one
those things.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges
Looking at the plans again it appears to me that the brace interferes
with the hinge bolts anyway. The block does not have to be very
thick, 1/4" will work fine. If you do decide to go the eyebolt route
the block will be an advantage as the shank doesn't have to go
through the angled brace. It will be in the middle of the block.
Also why would there be much more weight at the end? The bolt
or bolts, depending on the hinge used are only going to be an extra
1/4" long and the block weighs nothing. Another also, the brace wires
attach half way between the two outer hinges ( 11" in from the tip ).
I wish I'd thought of Corky's idea of mounting the hinges beforehand.
Getting nuts down between the gussets will be fun ( crawdads must be
brain food! ). :-)
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt
hinges
be very creful with the AN43 eyebolt style hinges. If you do not secure
them so that they can not rotate in the hole you could get a locked up control
surface in flight.
A good way to keep them from rotating is to use the drilled shank version
with a castle nut. instead of putting a cotter pin on it, use a short length
of music wire that has a round loop bent into one end. Slide it through the
shank and use a wood screw through the loop and screw it into lead or trailing
edge spar. It is only necessary to secure one side of the hinge.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Luther
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals...
Stacy:
I read your E-mail and went downstairs to take a look at my uncovered stab.
Then I came back upstairs and read Clif Dawson's reply. Then I went back
downstairs to take another look at my stab. I would go with #4. Cause #2 would
cause interference with my elevator hinges and # 4 has half as many pieces
to deal with. Also, I used the GN-1 idea for elevator hinges instead of the
Piet idea for hinges. The Piet elevator hinges are more original, but the GN-1
hinges(Eye-bolts) can be purchased thru AS&S.
Mike L.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | 601, Oshkosh, Brodhead Update |
Maybe I missed seeing this posted to this list, but Mike Cuy and Doc Mosher
appear in a photo on William Wynne's latest update to his ZenVair 601 page,
about halfway down, at http://flycorvair.com/601.html
If this is a repeat of an earlier post, I apologize.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
<014a01c48e10$a1b9b620$0100a8c0@Desktop> <004f01c48e5b$565c8a90$42705118@dawsonaviation>
<021901c48ef4$197aa910$0100a8c0@Desktop> <00be01c48f2d$573cd000$42705118@dawsonaviation>
hinges
| Subject: | Re: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges |
a wood screw in each flange will do the trick to. Glad to hear they are secured.
don't worry, my brain always gets ahead of my mouth and end up saying some
pretty funky things too. :) of course that usually happens at the niteclubs
right as I'm trying to talk to the most hottest babe in the place.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges
Oops! They are locked. There's a wood screw in each flange.
I was agreeing with you DJ. Brain must have taken shortcut on
way to mouth.
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges
>>The yellow Piet in the "Victoria Piets" file on Mykitplane has eyebolts
and is old enough to have been rebuilt and recovered a number of
years ago. No mention of eyebolt or flight problems.
That doesn't mean the eyebolts will never rotate. It takes an extra 5 minutes
to fix it and the consequences of a locked control surface could be fatal.
Some things can be left to fate but respectfully, I disagree and this is not
one those things.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt
hinges
Looking at the plans again it appears to me that the brace interferes
with the hinge bolts anyway. The block does not have to be very
thick, 1/4" will work fine. If you do decide to go the eyebolt route
the block will be an advantage as the shank doesn't have to go
through the angled brace. It will be in the middle of the block.
Also why would there be much more weight at the end? The bolt
or bolts, depending on the hinge used are only going to be an extra
1/4" long and the block weighs nothing. Another also, the brace wires
attach half way between the two outer hinges ( 11" in from the tip ).
I wish I'd thought of Corky's idea of mounting the hinges beforehand.
Getting nuts down between the gussets will be fun ( crawdads must be
brain food! ). :-)
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt
hinges
be very creful with the AN43 eyebolt style hinges. If you do not secure
them so that they can not rotate in the hole you could get a locked up control
surface in flight.
A good way to keep them from rotating is to use the drilled shank version
with a castle nut. instead of putting a cotter pin on it, use a short length
of music wire that has a round loop bent into one end. Slide it through the
shank and use a wood screw through the loop and screw it into lead or trailing
edge spar. It is only necessary to secure one side of the hinge.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Luther
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals...
Stacy:
I read your E-mail and went downstairs to take a look at my uncovered
stab. Then I came back upstairs and read Clif Dawson's reply. Then I went back
downstairs to take another look at my stab. I would go with #4. Cause #2
would cause interference with my elevator hinges and # 4 has half as many pieces
to deal with. Also, I used the GN-1 idea for elevator hinges instead of the
Piet idea for hinges. The Piet elevator hinges are more original, but the GN-1
hinges(Eye-bolts) can be purchased thru AS&S.
Mike L.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | fuel flow problem |
Here's a question for you folks flying the A-65 with Stromberg carb. Engine
won't start. Fuel is flowing from the tank, through the valve, through the
gascolator, all the way to the carb... all just fine, good flow. But no
fuel is getting into the carb. Regardless of throttle position or anything
else, she won't fire due to no fuel.
Next step is to remove the cowling and try tapping the carb body to see if
something is stuck and can be loosened up. Any other ideas before we go
dismantling the carb? It has no mixture control and the engine has been
shut down using the mags, not by closing the fuel valve and running the
engine till it quits.
Thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fuel flow problem |
I have seen some types of rubber flex fuel hose that swells internally, resulting
in restricted fuel flow between gascolator and carburetor.
However, you said you have verified flow all the way to the carburetor, but the
carburetor has no fuel. So it is evidently an internal carburetor blockage or
restriction. It would have to be that the needle valve stuck closed.
--
Terry B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601, Oshkosh, Brodhead Update |
My Sonex was parked next to williams Zenvair. and I forgot to bring my camera.
If anyone has a pic of that row of airplanes, or of my sonex, I would greatly
appreciate it.
Thanks much
Del
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
Maybe I missed seeing this posted to this list, but Mike Cuy and Doc Mosher
appear in a photo on William Wynne's latest update to his ZenVair 601 page,
about halfway down, at http://flycorvair.com/601.html
If this is a repeat of an earlier post, I apologize.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Carden <flywrite(at)erols.com> |
I read references to "inspections" prior to covering, and don't know who is supposed
to
inspect what. I built a GlaStar and had no "inspections" other than casual visits
from my
EAA Chapter's Technical Counselor until the aircraft was ready for the FAA inspection
and
certificate issuance. Then two very nice guys from the local FSDO spent a half-day
with me
(8 squalks, all minor and some even picky, I thought) before signing off. They
didn't
need/want to inspect anything that couldn't be viewed from inspection holes or
not visible
with removal of cowling, cockpit floor, etc.
Is there something unique to fabric construction that requires an inspection prior
to
covering? If so, would somebody please give me some details.
Many thanks,
Dick Carden, GN-1/Cumberland, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel flow problem |
You could try removing the nut on the bottom of the carb bowl to see if it
is a stuck float. Take a small screwdriver and try raising and lowering the
float. If not it is probably the seal on the needle valve or a clogged jet.
Have you used auto fuel with alchohol it it? That will ruin some seals.
Thats what happened to mine.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow problem
>
> Here's a question for you folks flying the A-65 with Stromberg carb.
Engine
> won't start. Fuel is flowing from the tank, through the valve, through
the
> gascolator, all the way to the carb... all just fine, good flow. But no
> fuel is getting into the carb. Regardless of throttle position or
anything
> else, she won't fire due to no fuel.
>
> Next step is to remove the cowling and try tapping the carb body to see if
> something is stuck and can be loosened up. Any other ideas before we go
> dismantling the carb? It has no mixture control and the engine has been
> shut down using the mags, not by closing the fuel valve and running the
> engine till it quits.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Pietenpol |
Wes Scott (another list member) and I will be driving
from Missouri to Waynesboro, VA next Wednesday for a
Thursday morning hook up with Joe Santana's son,
Peter, who will help Wes and me load up the Howard
Henderson aircraft for hauling back to MO. We will be
using a flat trailer with 77" width and 16'2" length.
Joe Santana has the plane disassembled for transport
and the wings are in a A shaped rack the he claims is
not roadworthy......but could be reinforced to be
roadworthy.
His suggestion is to "rack" the wings alongside the
fuselage, nestling the wing in the V space between the
wheel and the fuselage.
Wes is thinking we should built racks on the sides of
the trailer and mount the wings on these racks.
Anybody got any good ideas we can steal?
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
_______________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mike(at)mking.us> |
| Subject: | fuel flow problem |
Oscar,
I am NOT a mechanic, but when I had the SAME problem, a
mechanic friend of mine took out a small bolt in the carb and
shot some gas in there. It then fired up on the first or second
blade.
Some folks say once the engine fires up the float the acts
properly and then engine/carb work fine.
In my case, it turned out the carb needed to be overhauled
(the idle side of the carb was gummed up from sitting so long
with car gas)......long story.
My Stromberg has the mixture wired to full rich so I have to
cut off the engine using the mag switch.
Hope this helps. I know there are a lot of pros on this list
with better suggestions.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Oscar Zuniga
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow problem
Here's a question for you folks flying the A-65 with Stromberg
carb. Engine
won't start. Fuel is flowing from the tank, through the valve,
through the
gascolator, all the way to the carb... all just fine, good flow.
But no
fuel is getting into the carb. Regardless of throttle position
or anything
else, she won't fire due to no fuel.
Next step is to remove the cowling and try tapping the carb body
to see if
something is stuck and can be loosened up. Any other ideas
before we go
dismantling the carb? It has no mixture control and the engine
has been
shut down using the mags, not by closing the fuel valve and
running the
engine till it quits.
Thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
=========
=========
=========
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Pietenpol |
Thats exactly what I did when I trailered a GN-1 from No. Cal to AZ. Up to
90mph and 900 miles. Everything went well.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailering a Pietenpol
>
>
> Wes Scott (another list member) and I will be driving
> from Missouri to Waynesboro, VA next Wednesday for a
> Thursday morning hook up with Joe Santana's son,
> Peter, who will help Wes and me load up the Howard
> Henderson aircraft for hauling back to MO. We will be
> using a flat trailer with 77" width and 16'2" length.
>
> Joe Santana has the plane disassembled for transport
> and the wings are in a A shaped rack the he claims is
> not roadworthy......but could be reinforced to be
> roadworthy.
>
> His suggestion is to "rack" the wings alongside the
> fuselage, nestling the wing in the V space between the
> wheel and the fuselage.
>
> Wes is thinking we should built racks on the sides of
> the trailer and mount the wings on these racks.
>
> Anybody got any good ideas we can steal?
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
> _______________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Pietenpol |
DJ, when you say that is what you did.......which way
was it that you used? (I presented two ideas). Did you
use the side racks or nest the wings against the
fuselage????? Any nuggets of info will be
appreciated.
--- DJ Vegh wrote:
>
>
> Thats exactly what I did when I trailered a GN-1
> from No. Cal to AZ. Up to
> 90mph and 900 miles. Everything went well.
>
> DJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 7:11 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailering a Pietenpol
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Wes Scott (another list member) and I will be
> driving
> > from Missouri to Waynesboro, VA next Wednesday for
> a
> > Thursday morning hook up with Joe Santana's son,
> > Peter, who will help Wes and me load up the Howard
> > Henderson aircraft for hauling back to MO. We will
> be
> > using a flat trailer with 77" width and 16'2"
> length.
> >
> > Joe Santana has the plane disassembled for
> transport
> > and the wings are in a A shaped rack the he claims
> is
> > not roadworthy......but could be reinforced to be
> > roadworthy.
> >
> > His suggestion is to "rack" the wings alongside
> the
> > fuselage, nestling the wing in the V space between
> the
> > wheel and the fuselage.
> >
> > Wes is thinking we should built racks on the sides
> of
> > the trailer and mount the wings on these racks.
> >
> > Anybody got any good ideas we can steal?
> >
> > =====
> > Larry Nelson
> > Springfield, MO
> > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > SV/ Spirit of America
> > ARS WB0JOT
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________
> now.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
_______________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Pietenpol |
How can one go 90mph in a 70moh airplane?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
Richard,
Human error is unfortunately the cause of many preventable accidents. There can
never be too may eyes go over an assembly of parts to ensure nothing was inadvertantly
left undone or incorrectly done.
I worked as an A&P mechanic under high pressure to get work out the door for 7
years. We worked on high performance aircraft with many complex systems. I learned
to be a very consciencious mechanic and took on many good work habits from
my co-workers to minimize my mistakes. We had checklists and stopping points
where inspections were required before proceeding. We had a team of inspectors
to check our work. It was rare to make it thru an inspection without leaving
off a ty-wrap...a safety wire... a cotter pin... or sometimes totally miss
something obvious. It seemed that it was usually the most mundane or simple
task that went awry. With all the inspections, leak-checks, re-checks, and
preflight operational tests, human error seemed to find a way to make it through.
Fortunately, in my seven years, I only had one in-flight event occur... an
air conditioner fluid line left un torqued. I am glad that nobody was hurt
because of my mistake.
When it comes to your homebuilt project, you are intimately familiar with every
part. You spend hour after hour looking at things. I can tell you from experience,
that looking at the same thing over and over can lead you to miss something
simple. It is always best to have inspectors check your work. As for pre-cover
inspection... it is best to have a trained inspector who knows the kinds
of things to look for. Most FAA licensed A&P with Inspection Authorization
(I.A.) are very good for this task. For certified ariplanes this is who must
perform this task.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Pietenpol |
sorry..... got ahead of myself. I tied the fuse down in the center of
the trailer tail first, then rested the leading edge of the wings between
the gear legs and the tires (with foam of course). The wings chord went up
towards the top of the center section and were tied to it.
Lots of foam and tie-downs. worked fine
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailering a Pietenpol
>
> DJ, when you say that is what you did.......which way
> was it that you used? (I presented two ideas). Did you
> use the side racks or nest the wings against the
> fuselage????? Any nuggets of info will be
> appreciated.
>
>
> --- DJ Vegh wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Thats exactly what I did when I trailered a GN-1
> > from No. Cal to AZ. Up to
> > 90mph and 900 miles. Everything went well.
> >
> > DJ
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 7:11 AM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailering a Pietenpol
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Wes Scott (another list member) and I will be
> > driving
> > > from Missouri to Waynesboro, VA next Wednesday for
> > a
> > > Thursday morning hook up with Joe Santana's son,
> > > Peter, who will help Wes and me load up the Howard
> > > Henderson aircraft for hauling back to MO. We will
> > be
> > > using a flat trailer with 77" width and 16'2"
> > length.
> > >
> > > Joe Santana has the plane disassembled for
> > transport
> > > and the wings are in a A shaped rack the he claims
> > is
> > > not roadworthy......but could be reinforced to be
> > > roadworthy.
> > >
> > > His suggestion is to "rack" the wings alongside
> > the
> > > fuselage, nestling the wing in the V space between
> > the
> > > wheel and the fuselage.
> > >
> > > Wes is thinking we should built racks on the sides
> > of
> > > the trailer and mount the wings on these racks.
> > >
> > > Anybody got any good ideas we can steal?
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Larry Nelson
> > > Springfield, MO
> > > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > > SV/ Spirit of America
> > > ARS WB0JOT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________
> > now.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/chat
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
> _______________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Pietenpol |
We took a Lohle Sport Parasol down to Sun-N-Fun a couple of years ago. (Of
course, that airplane is much lighter than a Piet).We used a utility
trailer from Harbor Freight,lengthened the tongue, loaded the fuselage tail
first and installed racks to mount the wings vertically alongside the
fuselage. On the way back to Huntsville, we were met by a fast-moving
eighteen wheeler that simply blew the trailer over on it's side, damaging
one wing and the landing gear of the Lohle. Later, I bought a Piet in
Chicago. I loaded the fuselage the same way on the same trailer, but built
a "headache rack" on the pickup and loaded the wings in the horizontal,
rather than vertical plane, on top of the truck. No problem this time. If
you would like to see pictures, contact me off-line. Carl
Vought/Huntsville, AL
wrote :
>
>
> Wes Scott (another list member) and I will be driving
> from Missouri to Waynesboro, VA next Wednesday for a
> Thursday morning hook up with Joe Santana's son,
> Peter, who will help Wes and me load up the Howard
> Henderson aircraft for hauling back to MO. We will be
> using a flat trailer with 77" width and 16'2" length.
>
> Joe Santana has the plane disassembled for transport
> and the wings are in a A shaped rack the he claims is
> not roadworthy......but could be reinforced to be
> roadworthy.
>
> His suggestion is to "rack" the wings alongside the
> fuselage, nestling the wing in the V space between the
> wheel and the fuselage.
>
> Wes is thinking we should built racks on the sides of
> the trailer and mount the wings on these racks.
>
> Anybody got any good ideas we can steal?
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
>
> _______________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Pietenpol |
Larry,
Here's how we transported our Piet Project..(see link) only 15 miles, but we could
have made it across country this way.
Terry B.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=SCF0007.JPG&PhotoID=1936
In a message dated 8/31/2004 10:11:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Larry Nelson
writes:
>
>
>Wes Scott (another list member) and I will be driving
>from Missouri to Waynesboro, VA next Wednesday for a
>Thursday morning hook up with Joe Santana's son,
>Peter, who will help Wes and me load up the Howard
>Henderson aircraft for hauling back to MO. We will be
>using a flat trailer with 77" width and 16'2" length.
>
>Joe Santana has the plane disassembled for transport
>and the wings are in a A shaped rack the he claims is
>not roadworthy......but could be reinforced to be
>roadworthy.
>
>His suggestion is to "rack" the wings alongside the
>fuselage, nestling the wing in the V space between the
>wheel and the fuselage.
>
>Wes is thinking we should built racks on the sides of
>the trailer and mount the wings on these racks.
>
>Anybody got any good ideas we can steal?
>
>=====
>Larry Nelson
>Springfield, MO
>Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
>1963 GMC 4106-1618
>SV/ Spirit of America
>ARS WB0JOT
>
>
>
>_______________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
And most importantly, Alex Sloan, the man being honored !
Mike C.
Oscar-- thank you. I don't know if Alex had seen this or not.
>
>Maybe I missed seeing this posted to this list, but Mike Cuy and Doc
>Mosher appear in a photo on William Wynne's latest update to his ZenVair
>601 page, about halfway down, at http://flycorvair.com/601.html
>
>If this is a repeat of an earlier post, I apologize.
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How many ounces does it take |
Max,
I used the uncertified fabric from AS&S, and the Stits method. I covered the
wing, and the fuselage with the medium 2.8 oz fabric, and the empenage and
ailerons with the lighter 1.7 oz fabric. My reasoning was that the wing and
fuse take the abuse, and I wanted to keep the tail and control surfaces as light
as possible. The lighter fabric is easier to work with, but fabric work in
general is not difficult...once you get the hang of it. Fabric is also
relatively easy to repair. Rib stitching is a bit of a chore, but it can be a
little
quicker if you use 4 or 5 needles at a time, one for each ribs. My wing has
about 500 stitches in it !! In fact it is very satisfying to see the project
at this stage, once you get over the fact that you MUST cover up all that
beautiful wood work !! Now, have at it, and get that bird covered !!
Chuck G.
p.s. did an early morning flight this morning...naw I didn't get up early, I
went to the airport after working the hoot owl shift. Absolutely beautiful
sunrise, dead calm winds, and about a million miles visibility. Checked out
some fields up close and personal, to the south of Cook field. Flew next to a
pickup truck for several miles. He waved back and had a big smile !! Greased
in the softest full stall landing I've ever done !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Richard-- you go about your certification the same as you did with your
GlaStar. The MIDO/FSDO FAA people do not
do pre-cover inspections like they used to. There are Tech Couselors
thru EAA, like you had from your Chapter, that
are always a good idea AND if you get them to document their visits, I'm
told that your insurance rate could be less expensive
if you have something like three visits during the course of your building
process. Don't quote me on that---check with EAA
and Falcon who now is the "Avemco" for EAA. That used to be the policy
with Tech C. visits, it may not be the case anymore. Dunno.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: How many ounces does it take |
Max-- I used uncertified (comes from the same mill as the certified stuff
!) 1.8 oz from Superflite and then the dope process
after that. Would not change a thing except to have added reinforcing
tapes over the stingers......but we got in a hurry. Dumb !
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel flow problem |
Oscar,
Sounds like your float is stuck. Is it the rubber tip float needle ? Pull
the plug on the bottom of the carb, and if no fuel flow there, then tap on the
carb. If there is fuel in the carb, and fuel flow is normal out the bottom of
the carb, then you might as well check how much flow. There is 128 oz per
gallon, and lets just say 5 gal per hour burn rate. Thats 640 oz. per hour, or
10.6 oz. per minute. Check and see if you get about 11 oz per minute fuel
flow. If you do, then put the plug back in. If it still doesn't start, then try
this - With the mags OFF, open the throttle about half way, and flip the prop
backwards about 10 blades. Mags ON, throttle idle, and try to start.
Chuck G.
p.s. I gotta watch these sunrises more often !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush |
Chris,
Trees? What's are those? If there ever were any trees here they went away about
the same time as the mastadons. They don't call it the "bush" for nothing.
Now, if I wanted to make a "willow" Pietenpol I could probably swing that :-)
(See attached article for full explanation [company name intentionally left
blank]).
As far as the wood, fortunately, the pieces I'll need are short enough to ship
"normally." It's just the point of having to in the first place.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush |
Stacy,
Isn't shipping long loads in a Beaver with one of the windscreen panes
removed (and the "load" sticking way out the front) considered normal?
I bet all the wood for a Piet fits nicely in an Otter. As an ATC
operator, I would think you might know an Alaska Airlines or Mark Air
guy or two who would love to help your charity project out gratis. As
far as that goes, you could probably construct your entire airplane out
of dead standing timber (excellent wood) from the Kenai or Fairbanks.
Now THAT would be cool...
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> stacy@unicom-alaska.com Tuesday, August 31, 2004 1:27:34 PM >>>
Chris,
Trees? What's are those? If there ever were any trees here they went
away about the same time as the mastadons. They don't call it the
"bush" for nothing. Now, if I wanted to make a "willow" Pietenpol I
could probably swing that :-) (See attached article for full
explanation [company name intentionally left blank]).
As far as the wood, fortunately, the pieces I'll need are short enough
to ship "normally." It's just the point of having to in the first
place.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and
that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doyle Combs" <dcombs(at)ltex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush |
I hauled a Piet back to Texas from Ohio but the weather was rather bad, so I
used a covered trailer and it was a real success as far as transportation
goes.
Doyle Combs
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush
>
> Stacy,
>
> Isn't shipping long loads in a Beaver with one of the windscreen panes
> removed (and the "load" sticking way out the front) considered normal?
> I bet all the wood for a Piet fits nicely in an Otter. As an ATC
> operator, I would think you might know an Alaska Airlines or Mark Air
> guy or two who would love to help your charity project out gratis. As
> far as that goes, you could probably construct your entire airplane out
> of dead standing timber (excellent wood) from the Kenai or Fairbanks.
> Now THAT would be cool...
>
> John
>
> John Ford
> john(at)indstate.edu
> 812-237-8542
>
>
> >>> stacy@unicom-alaska.com Tuesday, August 31, 2004 1:27:34 PM >>>
> Chris,
>
> Trees? What's are those? If there ever were any trees here they went
> away about the same time as the mastadons. They don't call it the
> "bush" for nothing. Now, if I wanted to make a "willow" Pietenpol I
> could probably swing that :-) (See attached article for full
> explanation [company name intentionally left blank]).
>
> As far as the wood, fortunately, the pieces I'll need are short enough
> to ship "normally." It's just the point of having to in the first
> place.
>
> Stacy
>
> There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and
> that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: How many ounces does it take |
In a message dated 8/30/2004 7:55:54 PM Central Standard Time,
pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net writes:
So I followed their advice and used medium weight throughout. it is tough
stuff, and can certainly withstand a lot of abuse from finger-pokin' onlookers.
Jack Phillips
Here's my two cents for anyone with concerns about which weight to use. I
opted for the lighter weight and was pleased with the results....BUT...one moment
of carelessness when I somehow snagged the elevator cable aft of where it
exited the fabric and I heard a great rip.When I looked, sure enough there was
a
four inch tear which also dislodged the leather grommet ( which apparently
offered little protection.) The patching and matching took far longer than the
original covering and was a setback I didn't need. I now ask myself if I were
to build another Piet would I opt for the heavier fabric ? I think so !!
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel flow problem - me too. |
Oscar: Mine did the very same thing as Dick Navratil's and Mikes. Probably
a gummed up needle valve/seat. Especially if it sat with car gas in it.
Also, the idle pathways are REALLY small and prone to accumulation of
varnish. I tried to clean mine but it never realy ran right. Sent it off
for a 450.00 overhaul. (It looks nice, though)
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike King" <mike(at)mking.us>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow problem
>
> Oscar,
>
> I am NOT a mechanic, but when I had the SAME problem, a
> mechanic friend of mine took out a small bolt in the carb and
> shot some gas in there. It then fired up on the first or second
> blade.
>
> Some folks say once the engine fires up the float the acts
> properly and then engine/carb work fine.
>
> In my case, it turned out the carb needed to be overhauled
> (the idle side of the carb was gummed up from sitting so long
> with car gas)......long story.
>
> My Stromberg has the mixture wired to full rich so I have to
> cut off the engine using the mag switch.
>
> Hope this helps. I know there are a lot of pros on this list
> with better suggestions.
>
> Mike King
> GN-1
> 77MK
> Dallas
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Oscar Zuniga
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 8:29 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow problem
>
>
>
> Here's a question for you folks flying the A-65 with Stromberg
> carb. Engine
> won't start. Fuel is flowing from the tank, through the valve,
> through the
> gascolator, all the way to the carb... all just fine, good flow.
> But no
> fuel is getting into the carb. Regardless of throttle position
> or anything
> else, she won't fire due to no fuel.
>
> Next step is to remove the cowling and try tapping the carb body
> to see if
> something is stuck and can be loosened up. Any other ideas
> before we go
> dismantling the carb? It has no mixture control and the engine
> has been
> shut down using the mags, not by closing the fuel valve and
> running the
> engine till it quits.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> =========
> =========
> =========
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> =========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | .020" aluminum leading edge |
most plans have .016" aluminum leading edge, but I hear from lots of folks
that it can dent too easily by a stray hand or the occasional hangar bump.
So I ordered up some .020" sheet.
Has anyone used this on thier Piet? If so how did you go about installing
it? did you pre-bend the leading edge radius? It looks like this task will
be a pain in the ass.
tips and advice please.
DJ
_
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush |
Man....904kbs in one e-mail....I was wondering why I haven't been getting
any e-mails....My Hotmail acct was maxed out!!!!!!
>From: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush
>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:27:34 -0800
>
>Chris,
>
>Trees? What's are those? If there ever were any trees here they went away
>about the same time as the mastadons. They don't call it the "bush" for
>nothing. Now, if I wanted to make a "willow" Pietenpol I could probably
>swing that :-) (See attached article for full explanation [company name
>intentionally left blank]).
>
>As far as the wood, fortunately, the pieces I'll need are short enough to
>ship "normally." It's just the point of having to in the first place.
>
>Stacy
>
>There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and
>that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
><< SoYouWanttobeaBushPilot_modifiedexample.doc >>
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush |
<023e01c48f88$3268a6e0$69aaa1d1@DJQ7LV21>
Stacy:
Doug Fir is a good substitute for Sitka if you are in a pinch. Most
wood buildings built before 1970 or so, used Doug Fir. The clearest
Doug Fir can be salvaged from older door jambs, trim, frame and panel
doors and from floor joists. If you are in doubt about grain, then try
splitting some the same way you would split firewood. Perfectly
straight up to 1 in 15 slope and you are good to go assuming the end
grain count is also good.
Happy Scrounging!!!!
P.S. If I were dreaming I would try to find someway to use the
beautiful Sitka Spruce logs that I say on Kodiak Island and also saw in
Seldovia.
Mike L.
Stacy Clark wrote:
> Chris, Trees? What's are those? If there ever were any trees here
> they went away about the same time as the mastadons. They don't call
> it the "bush" for nothing. Now, if I wanted to make a "willow"
> Pietenpol I could probably swing that :-) (See attached article for
> full explanation [company name intentionally left blank]). As far as
> the wood, fortunately, the pieces I'll need are short enough to ship
> "normally." It's just the point of having to in the first
> place. Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the
> impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pietenpol Opps Manual |
Doyle,
When we were at Tick Hill, you mentioned you would like me to send you
(e-mail) the text of the Pietenpol Operations Manual that I made. Do you still
want
it ? I sent you an e-mail asking you, but I didn't get a response. Does
anyone else want to see it ?
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Esslinger" <aquanaut(at)indy.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Opps Manual |
Chuck, I'd like to see it also if it's not too much trouble.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Opps Manual
Doyle,
When we were at Tick Hill, you mentioned you would like me to send you
(e-mail) the text of the Pietenpol Operations Manual that I made. Do you
still want
it ? I sent you an e-mail asking you, but I didn't get a response. Does
anyone else want to see it ?
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Opps Manual |
I would be interested in seeing a copy. I am always interested in anything
Pietenpol. I am in Year 13 of 14 of a project. Have just started covering
the tail pieces to get a feel for that part of the project.
Ralph Hurlbert
South Dakota
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
<000501c48fbc$06a58170$0100a8c0@Desktop>
| Subject: | Re: .020" aluminum leading edge |
DJ
Ours came out really simple. Harold, one of our builders, made a jig out of
2x6 scrap. He sanded the edge to match the leading edge then adjusted the
2x2's as needed. We used 2 pieces overlapped like a J3 Cub so they were not
too long to handle. I included a rough sketch to give you the idea of how
the jig looks. We used gutter coil for the aluminum, because we got it for
free, just cut it with a straight edge and a box cutter. Experiment with
some 1' pieces to get the edge distance required then go for it. Check the
picture, a couple of smacks with the big hammer and it is done. We could
bend all 24 in about an hour. Check the picture, the leading edge is
dead-on.
Barry Davis
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: .020" aluminum leading edge
>
> most plans have .016" aluminum leading edge, but I hear from lots of folks
> that it can dent too easily by a stray hand or the occasional hangar bump.
>
> So I ordered up some .020" sheet.
>
> Has anyone used this on thier Piet? If so how did you go about installing
> it? did you pre-bend the leading edge radius? It looks like this task
will
> be a pain in the ass.
>
> tips and advice please.
>
> DJ
>
> _
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Opps Manual |
Chuck,
Please send me a copy of your Piet Ops manual too. I'm "almost" to the
covering stage.
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Opps Manual
Doyle,
When we were at Tick Hill, you mentioned you would like me to send you
(e-mail) the text of the Pietenpol Operations Manual that I made. Do you
still want
it ? I sent you an e-mail asking you, but I didn't get a response. Does
anyone else want to see it ?
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
"Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft"
| Subject: | online aviation java calculators - very cool |
came across this link recently.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/aviationconverters.html
over 100 aviation based Java calculators. Everything you can think of is in
there. Check it out
DJ Vegh
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
_
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Does anybody have or know of a good place go get a decent compass at a decent price?
I need a pedestal mount for the main cockpit and a panel mount for the front cockpit.
thanks,
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Opps Manual |
report
I wouldn't mind seeing the manual also. Or, if you'd like, send it to me and
I'll host it where everyone can download it.
Steve Ruse
Irving, TX
Quoting "Hubbard, Eugene" :
>
> Chuck,
>
> Please send me a copy of your Piet Ops manual too. I'm "almost" to the
> covering stage.
>
> Gene Hubbard
> San Diego
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Rcaprd(at)aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 8:10 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Opps Manual
>
>
> Doyle,
> When we were at Tick Hill, you mentioned you would like me to send you
> (e-mail) the text of the Pietenpol Operations Manual that I made. Do you
> still want
> it ? I sent you an e-mail asking you, but I didn't get a response. Does
> anyone else want to see it ?
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mike(at)mking.us> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Opps Manual |
Chuck,
I would enjoy looking at a copy. Although I have a GN-1
with an A-80, it should be a good reference to create one
for my plane.
Thanks.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Opps Manual
Doyle,
When we were at Tick Hill, you mentioned you would like me to
send you
(e-mail) the text of the Pietenpol Operations Manual that I made.
Do you still want
it ? I sent you an e-mail asking you, but I didn't get a
response. Does
anyone else want to see it ?
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
=========
=========
=========
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Opps Manual |
Now THAT'S a good idea! Don't forget to let us all know where it is when
you host it. ;-)
Hank
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Opps Manual
>
> I wouldn't mind seeing the manual also. Or, if you'd like, send it to me
and
> I'll host it where everyone can download it.
>
> Steve Ruse
> Irving, TX
>
> Quoting "Hubbard, Eugene" :
>
> >
> > Chuck,
> >
> > Please send me a copy of your Piet Ops manual too. I'm "almost" to the
> > covering stage.
> >
> > Gene Hubbard
> > San Diego
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> > Rcaprd(at)aol.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 8:10 PM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Opps Manual
> >
> >
> >
> > Doyle,
> > When we were at Tick Hill, you mentioned you would like me to send you
> > (e-mail) the text of the Pietenpol Operations Manual that I made. Do
you
> > still want
> > it ? I sent you an e-mail asking you, but I didn't get a response.
Does
> > anyone else want to see it ?
> >
> > Chuck Gantzer
> > NX770CG
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
<000501c48fbc$06a58170$0100a8c0@Desktop> <000c01c4902c$e22edfa0$1b02a8c0@WorkGroup>
| Subject: | Re: .020" aluminum leading edge |
thanks Barry. Sounds like a good idea.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: .020" aluminum leading edge
> DJ
> Ours came out really simple. Harold, one of our builders, made a jig out
of
> 2x6 scrap. He sanded the edge to match the leading edge then adjusted the
> 2x2's as needed. We used 2 pieces overlapped like a J3 Cub so they were
not
> too long to handle. I included a rough sketch to give you the idea of how
> the jig looks. We used gutter coil for the aluminum, because we got it for
> free, just cut it with a straight edge and a box cutter. Experiment with
> some 1' pieces to get the edge distance required then go for it. Check the
> picture, a couple of smacks with the big hammer and it is done. We could
> bend all 24 in about an hour. Check the picture, the leading edge is
> dead-on.
> Barry Davis
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 8:38 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: .020" aluminum leading edge
>
>
> >
> > most plans have .016" aluminum leading edge, but I hear from lots of
folks
> > that it can dent too easily by a stray hand or the occasional hangar
bump.
> >
> > So I ordered up some .020" sheet.
> >
> > Has anyone used this on thier Piet? If so how did you go about
installing
> > it? did you pre-bend the leading edge radius? It looks like this task
> will
> > be a pain in the ass.
> >
> > tips and advice please.
> >
> > DJ
> >
> > _
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HOEVELMANN <hoevelmann(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Opps Manual |
Dear Chuck,
I also would like a copy
Thanks,
J.J. Hoevelmann
Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
Doyle,
When we were at Tick Hill, you mentioned you would like me to send you
(e-mail) the text of the Pietenpol Operations Manual that I made. Do you still
want
it ? I sent you an e-mail asking you, but I didn't get a response. Does
anyone else want to see it ?
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Opps Manual |
I have already posted my version of the manual on the matronics pic files.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Opps Manual
>
> I wouldn't mind seeing the manual also. Or, if you'd like, send it to me
and
> I'll host it where everyone can download it.
>
> Steve Ruse
> Irving, TX
>
> Quoting "Hubbard, Eugene" :
>
> >
> > Chuck,
> >
> > Please send me a copy of your Piet Ops manual too. I'm "almost" to the
> > covering stage.
> >
> > Gene Hubbard
> > San Diego
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> > Rcaprd(at)aol.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 8:10 PM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Opps Manual
> >
> >
> >
> > Doyle,
> > When we were at Tick Hill, you mentioned you would like me to send you
> > (e-mail) the text of the Pietenpol Operations Manual that I made. Do
you
> > still want
> > it ? I sent you an e-mail asking you, but I didn't get a response.
Does
> > anyone else want to see it ?
> >
> > Chuck Gantzer
> > NX770CG
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
There is the ops manual in photo share dated March 27, 2004
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Air Tech covering system |
anyone out there with experience or second hand knowledge of Air Tech fabric
covering system?
http://www.airtechcoatings.com/fabriccovering.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I was reading the EAA flight testing procedures and the FAA circular on certifications.
The only reference I found to records regarding flight testing, is the
requirement for a log entry at the end of phase 1 tests.
I have been updating my operations manual with test data, is it necessery to keep
an detailed flight summary for the record?
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: test flights |
Dick,
I would make a flight test journal, more for your records than anyone elses.
Keep a list of what you did, the squawks that you have, and what you did
to fix them. If out on a fight and no squawks, then just note the time flown,
what you did and where you went. Don't forget to note the landings. Looking
thru the logbooks of older aircraft you can sometimes see the early history of
where the plane has been and why. Some have even noted their hamburger runs.
Years from now you may get a kick out of it, or someone else might if the aircraft
is handed over to another generation.
Jim Dallas
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: test flights
I was reading the EAA flight testing procedures and the FAA circular on certifications.
The only reference I found to records regarding flight testing, is
the requirement for a log entry at the end of phase 1 tests.
I have been updating my operations manual with test data, is it necessery to
keep an detailed flight summary for the record?
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
Dale and I are getting ready to start our A-65 for the first time.
What is the proper procedure for priming the oil pump? Plugs have already been
installed and tourqued so I would prefer to find a way that doesn't require removing
the plugs.
Thanks,
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Greg-- we used to remove the rubber hose (or metal tubing) from the oil
pressure gauge at the engine end or fitting and then squirt oil into the
oil pump via that route with an oil can on our old Champ. (after not
flying it for say two or three mos. in the winter)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | wire wheel weights |
Can anybody tell me what their wire wheels weighed, with or without brakes.
I'm using large rims with old fashioned smooth clincher tires, which look great,
but they're heavy.
Want to compare to regular alloy motorcycle rims and tires.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <margdick(at)peoplepc.com> |
Greg,
On my A-65 w/tapered shaft, on the left front, as you face the engine, there
is a removable plug. Remove it and pump engine oil into it.
DickG.
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 8:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List:
Dale and I are getting ready to start our A-65 for the first time.
What is the proper procedure for priming the oil pump? Plugs have already been
installed and tourqued so I would prefer to find a way that doesn't require removing
the plugs.
Thanks,
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wire wheel weights |
I used the Harley 21" wheels. With rotors, calipers and axle, total 63 lb
I compared notes with Greg Cardinal a while back and I belive his was similar.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 9:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheel weights
Can anybody tell me what their wire wheels weighed, with or without brakes.
I'm using large rims with old fashioned smooth clincher tires, which look great,
but they're heavy.
Want to compare to regular alloy motorcycle rims and tires.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/01/04 |
| From: | Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> |
Chuck,
Please send a copy of you Operators Manuel.
Craig Lawler
899CL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com> |
| Subject: | wire wheel weights |
I am using two rear wheels for a motocross motorcycle (about a 250 cc I
think). They have about a four inch wide hub. I had the local machine shop
turn out the center and install a brass bushing to fit the axle pipe. They
weigh about 13 lbs each bare, no brakes or tires. I dont plan on using
brakes as I will be flying off my own alfalfa field.
Carol and Ralph
Raymond
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | wire wheel weights |
Guys-- I'm not sure how much my 19" wheels and tires weigh but I bought
aluminum rims to save some weight and even tho I have
a rotor on there for disc brakes and a thick-walled 4130 axle, my plane
still only weighs 632 lbs. I personally think the looks of the
wire wheels and wood gear are well worth the weight and the look. They
are the #1 thing that people seem to like about the plane
at a show or fly-in.
Mike C.
(PS-- the gear legs are a pain in the patootski to get to fit just right,
but ask Jack Phillips or Jim Markle how purty they look when done.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Air Tech covering system |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I just decided to use it on my stinson. I have the packages still in
the garage. (been there a month) Their manual is nothing compared to the
polyfiber manual. You must use fresh air. Tech support isn't quite as
good as the polyfiber guys, but seems to be fine with my pre-sales
questions. Among the polyurethane choices it seems to be the winner. I
covered my piet with polyfiber products up to the tapes then used latex
for the top coats, and for a rank beginner the manual was very user
friendly. Now that I've got one under the belt I don't have hesitation
with a new system since I generally understand what is going on.
Another advantage of Airtech is the many color choices, instead of just
50 polyfiber colors. That and the glossy finish is why I choose Airtech
for the Stinson. Cost is about the same for any. Superflight is
another worth looking into if you want another company to choose from.
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Tech covering system
anyone out there with experience or second hand knowledge of Air Tech
fabric
covering system?
http://www.airtechcoatings.com/fabriccovering.html
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Tech covering system |
What kind of latex did you use? Was it applied over the Butyrate silver
coat, the clear or the Nitrate? How does it hold up? I already bought the
base color in Butyrate but would like to hear options for the trim color
that won't break the bank.
Hank
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Tech covering system
>
> I just decided to use it on my stinson. I have the packages still in
> the garage. (been there a month) Their manual is nothing compared to the
> polyfiber manual. You must use fresh air. Tech support isn't quite as
> good as the polyfiber guys, but seems to be fine with my pre-sales
> questions. Among the polyurethane choices it seems to be the winner. I
> covered my piet with polyfiber products up to the tapes then used latex
> for the top coats, and for a rank beginner the manual was very user
> friendly. Now that I've got one under the belt I don't have hesitation
> with a new system since I generally understand what is going on.
> Another advantage of Airtech is the many color choices, instead of just
> 50 polyfiber colors. That and the glossy finish is why I choose Airtech
> for the Stinson. Cost is about the same for any. Superflight is
> another worth looking into if you want another company to choose from.
>
> Steve E
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 9:03 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Tech covering system
>
>
> anyone out there with experience or second hand knowledge of Air Tech
> fabric
> covering system?
>
> http://www.airtechcoatings.com/fabriccovering.html
>
>
> ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
One thing that works great on my Taylorcraft is to lift the tail (as high as you
can get it and still have prop clearance), pull a plug from each cylinder and
pull the prop through. I can flip the prop hard enough to get the pressure
gauge to move with the plugs out (but it ain't easy). I have trouble getting
pressure on start after long times sitting. If I leave the tail up so the engine
is level while storing the plane I get pressure immediately (and I don't have
to repack the bearings in the wheels after the hangar floods)
Hank (I put the mains up on ramps, I hate Hurricanes!) J
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 8:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List:
Dale and I are getting ready to start our A-65 for the first time.
What is the proper procedure for priming the oil pump? Plugs have already been
installed and tourqued so I would prefer to find a way that doesn't require removing
the plugs.
Thanks,
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Air Tech covering system |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
If that is the case try vinyl stick on decals. You can buy a roll of it
or have it custom cut. As to the latex, I painted on two coats right
over the bare fabric to seal the weave and provide UV, then 2-3 color
top coats. 7 years and still going strong. Easily repairable. Don't
ask how...
It really is a wonder it hasn't caught on more. Especially on older
vintage airplanes where it really looks period. (1930's-1950's)
Steve e
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of hjarrett
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Air Tech covering system
What kind of latex did you use? Was it applied over the Butyrate silver
coat, the clear or the Nitrate? How does it hold up? I already bought
the
base color in Butyrate but would like to hear options for the trim color
that won't break the bank.
Hank
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Tech covering system
>
> I just decided to use it on my stinson. I have the packages still in
> the garage. (been there a month) Their manual is nothing compared to
the
> polyfiber manual. You must use fresh air. Tech support isn't quite
as
> good as the polyfiber guys, but seems to be fine with my pre-sales
> questions. Among the polyurethane choices it seems to be the winner.
I
> covered my piet with polyfiber products up to the tapes then used
latex
> for the top coats, and for a rank beginner the manual was very user
> friendly. Now that I've got one under the belt I don't have
hesitation
> with a new system since I generally understand what is going on.
> Another advantage of Airtech is the many color choices, instead of
just
> 50 polyfiber colors. That and the glossy finish is why I choose
Airtech
> for the Stinson. Cost is about the same for any. Superflight is
> another worth looking into if you want another company to choose from.
>
> Steve E
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ
Vegh
> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 9:03 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Tech covering system
>
>
> anyone out there with experience or second hand knowledge of Air Tech
> fabric
> covering system?
>
> http://www.airtechcoatings.com/fabriccovering.html
>
>
> ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
>
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire wheel weights |
Douwe,
I don't have the weights for the individual wheels but here is the rundown on NX18235:
19 X 3.50 tires
19" aluminum rims
8 gauge, stainless steel spokes (40 per wheel)
Hubs per Howard Henderson's plans
All steel, fittings and cables per original plans
No brakes
Total weight of landing gear is 60 pounds
Rundown on the entire airplane:
Long fuselage
A-65
2.7 oz. fabric
Absolute minimum instrumentation
3 piece wing
Galvanized steel fuel tank in center section (15 gal. cap.)
Stainless steel firewall
Walnut and maple prop
No significant deviations from the plans
Empty weight came in at 621 lbs.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 9:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheel weights
Can anybody tell me what their wire wheels weighed, with or without brakes.
I'm using large rims with old fashioned smooth clincher tires, which look great,
but they're heavy.
Want to compare to regular alloy motorcycle rims and tires.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
I used to have a stool that lived in my hangar under the tailwheel of my
J-3. This was after seeing and hearing about tailposts rusted to nothing
(and the owner not knowing about it sometimes because the fabric somewhat
held things in place) in J-3's, because of condensation running down the
inside belly of the plane for years.
The plane was tied down inside the hangar with the standard points under
the wings, angling slightly forward toward the ground, and two points on
the tail, out at 45-degree angles from the tail. This was to relieve the
risk of the tail falling off the stool and busting something. It wasn't
going anywhere tied down that way.
My only mistake was painting the stool to match the plane, including my
N-numbers on top. These were open-front hangars, so I used to lay the stool
down, N-numbers out, to mark my spot. It disappeared when the plane was
gone for a week.
Jim Ash
>One thing that works great on my Taylorcraft is to lift the tail (as high
>as you can get it and still have prop clearance), pull a plug from each
>cylinder and pull the prop through. I can flip the prop hard enough to
>get the pressure gauge to move with the plugs out (but it ain't easy). I
>have trouble getting pressure on start after long times sitting. If I
>leave the tail up so the engine is level while storing the plane I get
>pressure immediately (and I don't have to repack the bearings in the
>wheels after the hangar floods)
>Hank (I put the mains up on ramps, I hate Hurricanes!) J
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 8:03 AM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List:
>
>Dale and I are getting ready to start our A-65 for the first time.
>What is the proper procedure for priming the oil pump? Plugs have already
>been
>installed and tourqued so I would prefer to find a way that doesn't
>require removing the plugs.
>
>Thanks,
>Greg Cardinal
>Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | To the Fl., Ga., and Alabama guys and gals.... |
Hunker down and God be with everyone in the path of Frances.
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
In checking out that battery page of Wantaja's I found this
link to his hand propping tailhook;
http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/tailhook.html
I seem to remember a question about this last month.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Cliff
I took a look at this hook, good idea but maybe a snapshackle used on a boat would
be simpler. I dont have one at home here to send a pic.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 1:27 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailhook
In checking out that battery page of Wantaja's I found this
link to his hand propping tailhook;
http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/tailhook.html
I seem to remember a question about this last month.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
I've attached a picture of the incredibly meticulous John Dilatush's
tailhook setup on Mountain Piet (from Brodhead '04), for those
interested...
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> horzpool(at)goldengate.net Friday, September 03, 2004 12:07:37 PM >>>
Cliff
I took a look at this hook, good idea but maybe a snapshackle used on a
boat would be simpler. I dont have one at home here to send a pic.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 1:27 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailhook
In checking out that battery page of Wantaja's I found this
link to his hand propping tailhook;
http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/tailhook.html
I seem to remember a question about this last month.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: test flights |
In a message dated 9/1/04 10:50:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:
<< I have been updating my operations manual with test data, is it necessery
to keep an detailed flight summary for the record? >>
Dick,
I always have, and still do, keep a fairly detailed flight log...especially
during the flight test phase...for the reasons that Jim D. mentioned.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 9/2/04 7:03:54 AM Central Daylight Time,
gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com writes:
<< Dale and I are getting ready to start our A-65 for the first time.
What is the proper procedure for priming the oil pump? Plugs have already
been
installed and tourqued so I would prefer to find a way that doesn't require
removing the plugs. >>
Greg,
After a long period of time with the tail up level, when I was re-doing the
spring struts, the oil pump lost it's prime. I removed the oil pressure line,
and made a funnel to fit, to prime my pump. It took quite a while for the oil
to run in, maybe a half hour.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Opps Manual |
Piet Gang,
Here is a chart I made from the data provided in the A65 Detail Specification (Continental
Motors document 1009A). I plan to attach this to my ops manual.
See reference at:
http://www.mooneymite.com/pdfs/contenginespec.pdf
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Opps Manual |
NOTE in my last email there is a link and an attachment. The chart is in the attachment.
The link will direct you to the A65-8 detail spec on the mooney mite
website.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Sloan <alexms1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Opps Manual |
Chuck,
I would be grateful for a copy of your ops Manuel.
Thanks
Alex Sloan
-----Original Message-----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com [SMTP:Rcaprd(at)aol.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Opps Manual
Doyle,
When we were at Tick Hill, you mentioned you would like me to send you
(e-mail) the text of the Pietenpol Operations Manual that I made. Do you still
want
it ? I sent you an e-mail asking you, but I didn't get a response. Does
anyone else want to see it ?
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | wire wheel weights |
Thanks everybody for the wheel weight responses, it helped a lot. Guess they're
not heavier than anyone else's!
Sure look good...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Opps Manual |
Chuck, thanx for the offer. I would very much appreciate your sending a
copy to me @ Hixplace(at)aol.com Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Anderson" <piet4ken(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | wire wheel weights |
I saw a fairly new BMW motorcycle this week
noticed the wheels
The spokes were attached near the bead area on the rim instead of the center and
laced to the opposite side of the hub.
looks they may withstand a greater side load set up like that
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheel weights
Thanks everybody for the wheel weight responses, it helped a lot. Guess they're
not heavier than anyone else's!
Sure look good...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wire wheel weights |
Those wheels are what I have on my BMW motorcycle; they are tubeless rims. You
may or may not want tubeless tires on your Piet but you are correct in that the
farther the angle is off of "vertical" or perpendicularity to the axis, the
higher the side load the spoke can carry. This is the reason some of the guys
on the list have made their own wider hubs for spoked wheels... to increase
that angle.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Anderson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 10:26 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wire wheel weights
I saw a fairly new BMW motorcycle this week
noticed the wheels
The spokes were attached near the bead area on the rim instead of the center
and laced to the opposite side of the hub.
looks they may withstand a greater side load set up like that
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
All those tailhooks look really good.
I saw a guy who carried what appeared to be a length of thin but strong nylon cord
in his cockpit. When needed, he just tied the tailwheel down with a slipknot
and ran the long end up to the cockpit. Propped her, got in, did his thing,
pulled the cord and stowed it away, VIOLA!
Maybe weighed 4 ounces and available at most hardware stores.
Though highly un-sexy...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Opps Manual |
Me too, me too! I didn't chime in before because I
thought this thread was "Pietenpol Oops Manual" and I
didn't want that.
I would like a manual, nonetheless, Chuck.
you can send it to:larrynelsonarchitect(at)mchsi.com
Thanks
--- Waytogopiet(at)aol.com wrote:
> Chuck, thanx for the offer. I would very much
> appreciate your sending a
> copy to me @ Hixplace(at)aol.com Don Hicks
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)speedtrail.net> |
Netscape/7.2 (ax)
Who said anything about stealing? I would be happy to PAY MONEY for
copies of the old newsletters. I would even volunteer to help scan pages
of them to pdfs and email them back to Grant so he can put everything on
CD and then sell me and everyone else a copy. I feel like Indiana Jones
trying to get copies of these things, I can get copies of the Dead Sea
Scrolls easier then those newsletters.
Rick Holland
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What I don't understand , is that not a week after everyone wanted to lynch a
guy who was selling/stealing Piet plans on the net,,,,,do we condemn a guy who
wants no one to take his copyrighted stuff.
Guess what makes it either right or wrong depends on if we want it or if we'll
lose it.
walt evans
NX140DL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
Years ago, I installed auxiliary ignition switches on the right side of the fuselage
near the firewall where I can keep my left hand on them while swinging the
propeller from behind it. With this arrangement, I can "kill" the engine should
things threaten to get out of hand. (These auxiliary switches are connected
in parallel with those in the cockpit.)
I used to carry an "insurance policy" in the form of a 1/4 inch nylon rope about
35 feet long if I intended to travel where there may be nobody available, or
qualified, to swing the prop. Simply tie one end to the left rear center section
strut (I enter the cockpit from the right with my Pietenpol), run the free
end back and around a tree, fencepost, etc. and back to the same c/s strut where
it is securely tied. Once in the cockpit, the two knots are easily untied
allowing one to pull in the rope and stow it.
This was prior to installing the auxiliary switches described above. Since my flying
is of a local nature nowadays, I don't carry the rope anymore but rely on
the switches and being darned careful. Nevertheless, this "rope trick" worked
well and I recommend it for safety and peace of mind---especially when flying
cross country to different airports.
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta, Canada)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Carden <flywrite(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: copyright SNAFU |
I'm with Rick . . . it doesn't make any sense at all to me to be so
secretive about contents of the back issues of the newsletter. After
all, it's the purpose of the newsletter, and this website, to exchange
information for the mutual benefit of builders?
Sombody's got a really screwy idea of proprietary rights. It's one thing
to copy copyrighted material; it's quite another to copy material that's
already in the public domain.
If there's anybody out there who has copies of newsletters that they'd
let me read (any copy for my own enlightenment) I'd be happy to pay
postage and handling both ways, and put up some kind of security deposit
for safe return.
I'm not interested in pirating material for resale . . . I'd just like
to have the benefit of the experience and thinking of others.
Dick Carden
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Land Shorter <landshorter2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | New product announcement: affordable VG's |
piper-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com,
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com, rv3-list(at)matronics.com,
rv4-list(at)matronics.com, rv6-list(at)matronics.com, rv7-list(at)matronics.com
1.00 SORTED_RECIPS Recipient list is sorted by address
Hey folks,
I double checked and Matt Dralle's earlier post says it's OK to post about new
aviation products as long as the message doesn't come off as having a "flavor"
of "traditional spam". Don't worry I'm not going to try to sell you anything
that supposedly makes any of your body parts larger (or smaller) and this product
is directly aviation related :) I'm just an airplane builder, owner, pilot,
and aviation nut who wants to tell you where you can find more information about
a great new product.
I've been selling kits of vortex generators (VG's) for only $95 and my customers are telling me they really like the performance gains they're seeing. VG's are great for reducing stall speeds and allow you to land slower, shorter, and safer. I invite you to check out my site at www.landshorter.com and see what you think. My VG's can be quickly installed for testing using removable double-stick tape and come with a 100% money-back guarantee so why not try them out on your plane? You'll be really glad you did :)
Thanks and let's keep 'em flying!
Joa Harrison
The VG Guy
www.landshorter.com
1-877-272-1414 (toll free)
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New product announcement: affordable VG's |
VG Guy,
Would like more info on your devices as I'm beginning to put my Piet wings
together
Isablcorky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Two Air Camper projects for sale |
I'm planning on putting my Pietenpol project AND my GN-1 project on Ebay the
middle of this month. Prior to doing that, FOR POTENTIAL BUYERS ONLY, I'm
willing to snail-mail a picture CD to anyone who would like to see these project
Air Campers.
This IS NOT an attempt to solicit bids in advance of, or in lieu of placing
these projects on Ebay. I am only attempting to get pictures into the hands of
qualified and interested parties in a timely fashion so that folks can have
enough time to ponder a purchase.
The projects will be listed separately and I anticipate starting the bids at
$20 with NO RESERVE. The winning Ebay bidder will have to arrange to pick up
the Pietenpol or GN-1 in Central Texas, most likely at Abilene Regional Airport.
Both projects are on gear legs and can easily be rolled up on a flatbed
trailer. The wings for the Pietenpol need to be pampered and I would recommend
hauling them on a trailer similar to a trailer I designed for hauling both a
fuselage and wings. (I can send pictures of my trailer *** NOT FOR SALE *** so
you
can have an idea of how I managed to haul airplanes and the wings across the
USA for the last 15 years.) Feel free to copy my trailer design. It safely
hauls the wings without a lot of risk to fabric or structure.
The Pietenpol (N1195P) was built by Bob Linton of Mineral Bluff, Georgia. His
original ad is still on Grant's website, having been posted a couple of years
ago. Mr. Linton advised in the ad that his Pietenpol had never been flown but
had been through the FSDO process and had an airworthiness certificate.
I bought this airplane in October of this year. When I got it home and began
doing an annual inspection, it became evident that it was necessary to cut all
the fabric off of the fuselage for several reasons. I found that Mr. Linton
had not installed gussets inside the fuselage as per plans and there were
serious rust issues with metal parts that he never bothered to prime or paint.
Also, there are some wood-delamination issues with the plywood panels on the
bottom of the fuselage. One wing also has been stripped of fabric and we found
some bare-metal parts covered with surface rust inside the wing, as well as the
improper use of pal-nuts in place of stop-nuts and a faulty repair to a rib.
(The rib is OK, it's just needs to be repaired according to recognized methods.
The rib appears to have been broken by a hailstone.)
The engine was advertised as having only 5 hours SMOH. It too was in bad need
of repair after I removed a cylinder and found evidence of a slipshod
overhaul. The engine however will not be sold with the rest of the airplane because
I
have spent a small fortune having the case rebuilt at DIVCO, new $500
camshaft, crankshaft and new bearings, not to mention other $$$ being spent to
rebuild the engine. As a result, I'll have a Continental engine out of the deal
that
looks as pristine as the day it left the factory.
The GN-1 project was purchased in March from D.J. Vegh. You can find info on
through D.J.s website (and while you are on D.J.s website, send him a
donation, as I have done for use of his really, really informative and helpful
website...)
Further details about these projects can be obtained by e-mailing me at;
STERLING(at)PGRB.COM or through N321TX(at)wmconnect.com. I can begin sending picture
CDs
on 9-8.
I'll send out a very detailed description of N1195P as best as I can honestly
describe it. IS IT REPAIRABLE? In my opinion yes, I just am in a rush to get
airborne and I don't have a lot of free time due to several circumstances at
the present time. I'm trying to get my 85 year old dad flying in an open
cockpit airplane for a few more adventures before he is unable to climb out of
a
chair. My dad has been fighting a battle with colon cancer and now liver cancer,
and we have many old Army Air Corp bases to visit around here before the sun
sets on his pilot's log book. Thats why I'm in a big rush and can't keep these
Air Camper projects.
Thanks,
Sterling Brooks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol building practices |
Hello fellow Pieters,
I am sitting here in SW Florida, hunkered down while Frances circles us
(thankfully), catching up on my tardy reading of email from the last month.
ATIS said the airport just closed until the winds die down. I am listening
to my neighbor's sailboat with its self-UNfurling jib self destruct in the
wind. You might wonder at this point what this has to do with a Pietenpol.
I was going to fly up to Brodhead and OSH this year until I got grounded by
the family since my oldest twin daughter was going to have here own twins.
I had 3 weeks of vacation time to spend locally so I volunteered to be a
test pilot for two new Pietenpol GN-1s. I flew over 55 hours during this
time. The biggest thing I learned is what we already know. We are totally
governed by Murphy's Law.
What does this have to do with a Piet? Anything that can go wrong will. If
you look at a part and say to yourself, "Self, as long as no one bumps it,
or pushes too hard, or stands on it (you fill in the blank - there are lots
of them)," I can guarantee that you/someone will. What you have to do is
build everything to counter anything that can go wrong. That doesn't mean
add 50 pounds in the form of armour. Bernie did an awful lot of thinking
for us. He has covered most things. Make sure you don't change the plans
and end up weakening something. This is especially true in the important
areas. Some of the obvious important areas are motor mounts, landing gear
and wing attachments. Some of the less obvious areas, that are sooo
important, are the controls. Make sure the aileron, rudder and elevator
controls are free and bullet proof.
Enough generalities and to the point. I was flying along in my normal mode,
fat dumb and happy, when the rear aileron of the right wing started flapping
at me (now you finally know why the hurricane reminded me to write this).
The rear spar was flipping up and down about 6" and my first thought was it
broke. Then I noticed the left wing was doing the same thing and the F work
came out. I immediately reduced power and the Flutter quit. I then noticed
that I had NO ailerons. Complete side to side stick movement did nothing.
Fortunately, I usually fly with using the rudders to lift the wing and the
crosswind landing was not an issue.
What was the cause and how could this have been prevented? On a GN-1 the
aileron cables sneak out along the floor from the bottom of the passenger
control stick to the fuselage side and then turn around a pulley 90 degrees
upward to the wing. The pulley bracket in this case was held to the
fuselage side with one bolt. The bolt allowed the pulley to pivot upwards
causing a loss of all tension. The owner had also mentioned that he found
the pulley bracket bent and he supposed that someone had gotten into the
passenger compartment while parked at a Memorial Day event. I now suspect
that a thunderstorm blew through while it was parked outside and the wind
force on the ailerons bent the bracket. I designed, and the owner
installed, a simple metal gusset to secure the other end of the pulley bolt
and that eliminated the possibility of both the bending and pivoting of the
pulley bracket.
My purpose for writing this is to tell you that finding out about these
things in the air is not the place to learn. Try to anticipate the huge
forces that will be put on some of these parts and prepare ahead of time.
You can rest assured that the Pietenpol I am now building will have all of
these things reviewed in a different light because of my experience learned
testing these two planes. Remember, experience is something you get right
after you need it.
Ted Brousseau
Naples, Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol building practices |
Ted,
Thanks for sharing your tips. My elder building partner (70+ something but
acts 30) and I will be putting back together N-1033B, after a little mishap
in a Missouri corn field a few years ago. We're doing this work this winter
in Palatka FL. I get to be the retest pilot, unless we can find some other
fool. Any other little ditties you've discovered are sincerely appreciated
by my wife and grown kids, due to the meager life insurance policy on yours
truely.
Gordon Bowen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol building practices
>
> Hello fellow Pieters,
>
> I am sitting here in SW Florida, hunkered down while Frances circles us
> (thankfully), catching up on my tardy reading of email from the last
month.
> ATIS said the airport just closed until the winds die down. I am
listening
> to my neighbor's sailboat with its self-UNfurling jib self destruct in the
> wind. You might wonder at this point what this has to do with a
Pietenpol.
>
> I was going to fly up to Brodhead and OSH this year until I got grounded
by
> the family since my oldest twin daughter was going to have here own twins.
> I had 3 weeks of vacation time to spend locally so I volunteered to be a
> test pilot for two new Pietenpol GN-1s. I flew over 55 hours during this
> time. The biggest thing I learned is what we already know. We are
totally
> governed by Murphy's Law.
>
> What does this have to do with a Piet? Anything that can go wrong will.
If
> you look at a part and say to yourself, "Self, as long as no one bumps it,
> or pushes too hard, or stands on it (you fill in the blank - there are
lots
> of them)," I can guarantee that you/someone will. What you have to do is
> build everything to counter anything that can go wrong. That doesn't mean
> add 50 pounds in the form of armour. Bernie did an awful lot of thinking
> for us. He has covered most things. Make sure you don't change the plans
> and end up weakening something. This is especially true in the important
> areas. Some of the obvious important areas are motor mounts, landing gear
> and wing attachments. Some of the less obvious areas, that are sooo
> important, are the controls. Make sure the aileron, rudder and elevator
> controls are free and bullet proof.
>
> Enough generalities and to the point. I was flying along in my normal
mode,
> fat dumb and happy, when the rear aileron of the right wing started
flapping
> at me (now you finally know why the hurricane reminded me to write this).
> The rear spar was flipping up and down about 6" and my first thought was
it
> broke. Then I noticed the left wing was doing the same thing and the F
work
> came out. I immediately reduced power and the Flutter quit. I then
noticed
> that I had NO ailerons. Complete side to side stick movement did nothing.
> Fortunately, I usually fly with using the rudders to lift the wing and the
> crosswind landing was not an issue.
>
> What was the cause and how could this have been prevented? On a GN-1 the
> aileron cables sneak out along the floor from the bottom of the passenger
> control stick to the fuselage side and then turn around a pulley 90
degrees
> upward to the wing. The pulley bracket in this case was held to the
> fuselage side with one bolt. The bolt allowed the pulley to pivot upwards
> causing a loss of all tension. The owner had also mentioned that he found
> the pulley bracket bent and he supposed that someone had gotten into the
> passenger compartment while parked at a Memorial Day event. I now suspect
> that a thunderstorm blew through while it was parked outside and the wind
> force on the ailerons bent the bracket. I designed, and the owner
> installed, a simple metal gusset to secure the other end of the pulley
bolt
> and that eliminated the possibility of both the bending and pivoting of
the
> pulley bracket.
>
> My purpose for writing this is to tell you that finding out about these
> things in the air is not the place to learn. Try to anticipate the huge
> forces that will be put on some of these parts and prepare ahead of time.
> You can rest assured that the Pietenpol I am now building will have all of
> these things reviewed in a different light because of my experience
learned
> testing these two planes. Remember, experience is something you get right
> after you need it.
>
> Ted Brousseau
> Naples, Florida
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Land Shorter <landshorter2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New product announcement: affordable VG's |
Your best bet is to check out www.landshorter.com if you have web
browser access. Otherwise you can give me a call. Basically I
guarantee you're going to like what they do for your Piet. The
slow speed handling will really benefit and you'll feel more
confident coming in on landing.
Joa (VG Guy)
www.landshorter.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
VG Guy,Would like more info on your devices as I'm beginning to put my Piet wings
togetherIsablcorky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol building practices |
Hey Ted
Nice to hear from you. I was starting to wonder. It's been quite a while
since your last post.
This story you told is a tribute to your expertise with the Piet.
Take care with these storms.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol building practices
>
> Hello fellow Pieters,
>
> I am sitting here in SW Florida, hunkered down while Frances circles us
> (thankfully), catching up on my tardy reading of email from the last
month.
> ATIS said the airport just closed until the winds die down. I am
listening
> to my neighbor's sailboat with its self-UNfurling jib self destruct in the
> wind. You might wonder at this point what this has to do with a
Pietenpol.
>
> I was going to fly up to Brodhead and OSH this year until I got grounded
by
> the family since my oldest twin daughter was going to have here own twins.
> I had 3 weeks of vacation time to spend locally so I volunteered to be a
> test pilot for two new Pietenpol GN-1s. I flew over 55 hours during this
> time. The biggest thing I learned is what we already know. We are
totally
> governed by Murphy's Law.
>
> What does this have to do with a Piet? Anything that can go wrong will.
If
> you look at a part and say to yourself, "Self, as long as no one bumps it,
> or pushes too hard, or stands on it (you fill in the blank - there are
lots
> of them)," I can guarantee that you/someone will. What you have to do is
> build everything to counter anything that can go wrong. That doesn't mean
> add 50 pounds in the form of armour. Bernie did an awful lot of thinking
> for us. He has covered most things. Make sure you don't change the plans
> and end up weakening something. This is especially true in the important
> areas. Some of the obvious important areas are motor mounts, landing gear
> and wing attachments. Some of the less obvious areas, that are sooo
> important, are the controls. Make sure the aileron, rudder and elevator
> controls are free and bullet proof.
>
> Enough generalities and to the point. I was flying along in my normal
mode,
> fat dumb and happy, when the rear aileron of the right wing started
flapping
> at me (now you finally know why the hurricane reminded me to write this).
> The rear spar was flipping up and down about 6" and my first thought was
it
> broke. Then I noticed the left wing was doing the same thing and the F
work
> came out. I immediately reduced power and the Flutter quit. I then
noticed
> that I had NO ailerons. Complete side to side stick movement did nothing.
> Fortunately, I usually fly with using the rudders to lift the wing and the
> crosswind landing was not an issue.
>
> What was the cause and how could this have been prevented? On a GN-1 the
> aileron cables sneak out along the floor from the bottom of the passenger
> control stick to the fuselage side and then turn around a pulley 90
degrees
> upward to the wing. The pulley bracket in this case was held to the
> fuselage side with one bolt. The bolt allowed the pulley to pivot upwards
> causing a loss of all tension. The owner had also mentioned that he found
> the pulley bracket bent and he supposed that someone had gotten into the
> passenger compartment while parked at a Memorial Day event. I now suspect
> that a thunderstorm blew through while it was parked outside and the wind
> force on the ailerons bent the bracket. I designed, and the owner
> installed, a simple metal gusset to secure the other end of the pulley
bolt
> and that eliminated the possibility of both the bending and pivoting of
the
> pulley bracket.
>
> My purpose for writing this is to tell you that finding out about these
> things in the air is not the place to learn. Try to anticipate the huge
> forces that will be put on some of these parts and prepare ahead of time.
> You can rest assured that the Pietenpol I am now building will have all of
> these things reviewed in a different light because of my experience
learned
> testing these two planes. Remember, experience is something you get right
> after you need it.
>
> Ted Brousseau
> Naples, Florida
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | Re: copyright SNAFU |
Richard:
You have the benefit of the experience and thinking of others, right here,
right now. What is your question concerning Pietenpols?
Mike Luther
NX 1953M
Richard Carden wrote:
>
> I'm with Rick . . . it doesn't make any sense at all to me to be so
> secretive about contents of the back issues of the newsletter. After
> all, it's the purpose of the newsletter, and this website, to exchange
> information for the mutual benefit of builders?
>
> Sombody's got a really screwy idea of proprietary rights. It's one thing
> to copy copyrighted material; it's quite another to copy material that's
> already in the public domain.
>
> If there's anybody out there who has copies of newsletters that they'd
> let me read (any copy for my own enlightenment) I'd be happy to pay
> postage and handling both ways, and put up some kind of security deposit
> for safe return.
>
> I'm not interested in pirating material for resale . . . I'd just like
> to have the benefit of the experience and thinking of others.
>
> Dick Carden
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAsAhQj/dzQW/AtcK0Pv4JYZKqAbUAQywIUN/AFHK2oUGRAMdvq+G/FduVhaTo=
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
I need a little advise from some one who has covered their wings. The
plans for the 3 piece wing shows a strip of 1/16 x 2" ply on both the
top and bottom of the root rib to make the rib hold its shape against
the fabric tension. Won't the rib stitching cord deform or collapse
these ply. stiffeners? Thanks for any advise. Leon S. Nickerson Ks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Building wings |
Don't need to rib stitch the root rib.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks(at)webtv.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Building wings
>
> I need a little advise from some one who has covered their wings. The
> plans for the 3 piece wing shows a strip of 1/16 x 2" ply on both the
> top and bottom of the root rib to make the rib hold its shape against
> the fabric tension. Won't the rib stitching cord deform or collapse
> these ply. stiffeners? Thanks for any advise. Leon S. Nickerson Ks.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PIETLARS29(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Building wings |
Leon,
Cy is correct, the roots are covered by the gap covering strip of aluminum.
Still kicking in central florida after 2 hurricanes; Frances was worse than
Charley for us. It lasted so long, started Sat afternoon and is still
blowing/raining some. Amazing that we lost power for only 6 hours yesterday.
COUNTING OUR BLESSINGS IN TAVARES.
Regards,
Lou Larsen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Esslinger" <aquanaut(at)indy.rr.com> |
Is MIG welding acceptable for 4130 Steel?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Carden <flywrite(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: copyright SNAFU |
Mike:
I'm a firm believer in gathering all the smarts I can before launch.
I guess it's not so much the questions I have right this minute as much
as it is the questions I ought to have! That is to say, I know some
things which I have questions about, but what concerns me is that in my
ignorance there are questions I should ask but don't realize that I need
to ask them. Further, if the Piet fraternity if anything like the
GlaStar fraternity, and it appears that it is, then there will be tips
and more tips to be learned from . . . there's no sense in reinventing
the wheel. Besides, at my age I don't have any reinventing time left!!
I really appreciate your offer to help; I've copied your email address
into my Piet address book, and you'll undoubtedly hear from me.
Thanks, and best regards,
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com> |
David,
No. Most "MIG" wires are not compatible with 4130. They will make a pretty
weld that over time with vibration will crack out. The best way is gas (preferable)
or TIG.
Jim Dallas
----- Original Message -----
From: David Esslinger
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 7:26 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: welding
Is MIG welding acceptable for 4130 Steel?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 09/05/04 |
I still maintain that copyright law clearly shows that the copyright for the
BPA newsletters remains with the BPA -- not the editor. BPA was the publisher
and as such, owns the copyright -- not the editor. If the BPA members want to
reproduce the old ones, they have that right. The editor was working at the
request of the BPA which was paying for the newsletter. For example, the editor
of the NY Times does not own the copyright to that newspaper, the NY Times
Corp. (the publisher) does. And I'm absolutely certain that the copyright on all
the articles within those newsletters belongs with the authors of those
articles -- and not with the editor. I wouldn't be too afraid of threats to sue.
Fred B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | rudder bar pressures |
Can you guys estimate the max amount of force put on the rudder bar?
Mine is made of Ash wood which is very strong, I'm just a little concerned that
there's not enough "meat" left around the cable bolts for my taste.
Any ideas?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Two Air Camper projects for sale |
I've had a number of requests already for picture CDs of the two Air Campers
I'll be putting on Ebay late this month.
In addition to mailing the CD containing pictures, I'll include a copy of the
letter I sent to the builder of N1195P expressing my concern about missing
parts and the condition of the airplane after all the fabric was stripped off,
and partial disassembly of the airplane.
I'll also include some other notes I sent to the Atlanta FSDO about the
condition of N1195P. Also to be included will be several e-mails from the builder
stating the condition of the airplane prior to the sale. I'm trying to put all
my cards on the table, so to speak, so interested parties will have enough
info about the Pietenpol.
I feel that by including this information and the pictures, I can represent
this "project" Pietenpol as honestly and fairly as possible. It is my goal to
be as ethical about this project as I can, because I believe in the Golden
Rule, despite the fact that the chap who built N1195P was deceptive in his
representation during my transaction in October. The airplane was represented to
me
as having been "stored inside" in a fashion that protected it from the
environment.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Morris <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com> |
Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
Hi
The common answer to your question is "no." That is not completely
correct, however. MIG welding was designed for rapid production work,
and here is where it shines. It can be used to weld 4130 steel, and
does a good job (if you use the right wire, etc). According to the
EAA's FAQ's, many kit aircraft are put together with MIG welders back at
the factory. All of this being said, however, the skill level required
to produce acceptable quality MIG welds in the thin tubing required for
aircraft is very high - and the technique is exacting.
So, the answer mainly is - it depends on your skill. Most do not
recommend it (as I am sure they will point out in answering this letter
;-) But, it can be done.
-Don
David Esslinger wrote:
>
>
> Is MIG welding acceptable for 4130 Steel?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net> |
David:
I have used all three methods on my plane. Part of my learning
experience. Soo... what I have learned is that Oxy Acetylene is good
practice for Tig. And Mig is great for either building jigs or for
one-handed spot welds to hold the work together until it is Tigged or
Gas welded. If it wa$ up to me I would have one of each. But, I own a
Oxy rig and I rent a Mig (Inexpensive) and I beg for use of a Tig.
(Expensive)
In answer to your question and in order of my preference I would say
Tig, Oxy, Mig.
Mike L.
David Esslinger wrote:
>
>
> Is MIG welding acceptable for 4130 Steel?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
Dave,
I built two projects under the watchful eye of my AP mentor. He's from the old
school (the late Leo Loudenschlager's AP) and he's strictly a OA guy. He
cringes at TIG, but says it's OK if normalized with a flame.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: David Esslinger
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 8:26 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: welding
Is MIG welding acceptable for 4130 Steel?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
Figure in a panic your legs could put MANY hundreds (probably in the low thousands)
of pounds each on the rudder bar. It is common after an accident to see
the steel brake peddle rod bent to the floor in cars (and the bend didn't happen
from impact). Adrenaline and pure terror can make your body incredibly strong.
That said, if you are jamming down THAT hard on the rudder bar you are in
a LOT more trouble than failing the bar will cause. This is where a little
"logic engineering" comes in. Figure what load the pivot bolt can take (bending
or sheer, whichever is less) and test load your rudder bar with that many pounds.
That will give you a fair assurance that the pivot bolt will fail before
the bar and that is all you need. If there is a flaw in the wood or you carved
the cross section too much it will show up in your test.
All problems don't require complex analysis to find out what is "good enough" and
I haven't heard of a pivot bolt failing in a Pietenpol yet.
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 11:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
Can you guys estimate the max amount of force put on the rudder bar?
Mine is made of Ash wood which is very strong, I'm just a little concerned that
there's not enough "meat" left around the cable bolts for my taste.
Any ideas?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
Douwe,
From what I remember, the rudder bar hits the bottom of the front seat as a stop.
So as long as that happens before the rudder itself hits any kind of stop,
there will be no real force on the cables and hardware. Since your feet are
to the outside of the "tube", under normal operation, there should be little
or no forces on the pivot bolt. Now if you're thinking of a "panic stop" where
both feet go forward, guess it would be the strength of the wood or the pivot
bolt.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 11:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
Can you guys estimate the max amount of force put on the rudder bar?
Mine is made of Ash wood which is very strong, I'm just a little concerned that
there's not enough "meat" left around the cable bolts for my taste.
Any ideas?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
You are right that the loads on the cables, rudder horns and other parts aft of
the bar are not affected by the pressure on the bar. That is the primary advantage
of using a bar in place of rudder pedals, it allows all parts aft of the
bar to use design loads based on air loads instead of pilot induced loads.
Several designs had serious damage to the tails because builders substituted pedals
where bars were called for and pressure on both pedals at once damaged the
rudder horns, rudder hinges and in one case the aluminum longerons in an ultralight.
Most people don't even realize they are pressing on both pedals at
once until pressure reaches slightly OVER their standing weight! That is why
I said using the pivot bolt strength as a limit would work as a poor mans method
of determining the strength requirement for the bar. I think you would be
surprised at the force we keep on the rudder controls all the time that resolves
itself as either load on the bar pivot or tension in the cables and other parts
with pedals. How many times have you stretched in the cockpit and pushed
yourself back and up in the seat by pushing on both sides of the bar?
Hank
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
Douwe,
From what I remember, the rudder bar hits the bottom of the front seat as a stop.
So as long as that happens before the rudder itself hits any kind of stop,
there will be no real force on the cables and hardware. Since your feet are
to the outside of the "tube", under normal operation, there should be little
or no forces on the pivot bolt. Now if you're thinking of a "panic stop" where
both feet go forward, guess it would be the strength of the wood or the
pivot bolt.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 11:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
Can you guys estimate the max amount of force put on the rudder bar?
Mine is made of Ash wood which is very strong, I'm just a little concerned
that there's not enough "meat" left around the cable bolts for my taste.
Any ideas?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net> |
No stiching required on the wing root rib.
The glue holds it to the 2" plywood.
I used 2 layers of 1/16 plywood.
Dale in Mpls
> [Original Message]
> From: <lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)>
> To:
> Date: 9/6/2004 2:45:20 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Building wings
>
>
> I need a little advise from some one who has covered their wings. The
> plans for the 3 piece wing shows a strip of 1/16 x 2" ply on both the
> top and bottom of the root rib to make the rib hold its shape against
> the fabric tension. Won't the rib stitching cord deform or collapse
> these ply. stiffeners? Thanks for any advise. Leon S. Nickerson Ks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Building wings |
The fabric is also more importantly cemented around the side of the Root rib so
the the stress is in shear not tension.
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: PIETLARS29(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Building wings
Leon,
Cy is correct, the roots are covered by the gap covering strip of aluminum.
Still kicking in central florida after 2 hurricanes; Frances was worse than
Charley for us. It lasted so long, started Sat afternoon and is still blowing/raining
some. Amazing that we lost power for only 6 hours yesterday. COUNTING
OUR BLESSINGS IN TAVARES.
Regards,
Lou Larsen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Progress (Caution long download) |
Dear Piet Gang
Well...sometimes progress means taking a step backwards. It seems like
lately every time I get a chance to work on the piet I end up re-doing something
that the original builder has done. Re work has included landing gear changes,
rudder control cable changes, firewall changes, tail brace wire changes... and
now... this.
I just spent time this weekend removing unnecessary floorboards. Chuck... I
am sure you are happy to know that we decided to make this change. The
original bulder of the 40-yr-old Piet added 1/4 in plywood floorboard to the
airplane. When Chuck was here in July, he recommended that we remove it to save
weight and to allow for better access for inspection of the landing gear bolts
and
engine mount bolts and of the glue joints in the fuselage structure. Lon and
I were hesitant because we had already done some work toward finishing the
inside and we weren't excited about having to un-do some of our work and some of
the original builder's work. But this has been on my mind lately and bugging
me to the point that I bit the bullet this weekend and started taking out
floor. This included using a wood chisel to remove spacer/support blocks used
under the " false floor. It all went better than I would have guessed. As a
result, I think I have managed to trim about 7 pounds from the empty weight.
See attached picture.
Chuck...as you'll recall,... we were also concerned about whether the old
original glue joints were sound. I am happy (while also a bit dissgruntled) to
report that the joints are sound. I know this because when removing the floor
support blocks... the joints were so good that I ended up tearing away some of
the material from the bottom plywood. This will detract from the cosmetic
appearance. Still, we will make sure that the final product is structurally
sound. But all in-all... I am happy with these changes. With the floor removed,
I am now installing little sheet metal "wear plates" under each rudder pedal.
See the mocked up patterns in the picture.
Anyway....It feels like I didn't make much progress in several hours of work.
Sometimes you have to go backward to move forward.
Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jimmy Courtney <jbciii5656(at)yahoo.com> |
Hey Everybody!
I hardly ever post but here goes....
in reference to 4130 steel, I read "somewhere" that Champion Aviation (Citabria,
Decathalon) uses MIG welding entirely on their production aircraft. Someone
may want to verify this information. I know also that extremely fast temp changes
in arc welding causes bittleness that should be addressed. Some say that lower
amps and attention to movment of the wire makes things work. Others say that
normalizing with a flame works best (This I tend to lean toward.) I bought
my Aircamper Plans last winter 2003 from Don Pietenpol but we didn't discuss
welding...just engines of choice. I intend to start building this summer 2005.
I can arc weld to some degree...MIG is very easy once the machine is set up...Gas
welding seems like a skill obtainable but I can see a lot of practice before
I'll trust any of my welds to support me or anyone else above the ground!
I'll probably build my Air Camper out of wood (I'm a furniture builder and wood
turner) but I will have to weld some parts. I look
foward
to the learning experience.
I enjoy reading everyones postings!..Thanks!
Jim Courtney
jbciii5656(at)yahoo.com
Florence, MS
walt evans wrote:
Dave,
I built two projects under the watchful eye of my AP mentor. He's from the old
school (the late Leo Loudenschlager's AP) and he's strictly a OA guy. He
cringes at TIG, but says it's OK if normalized with a flame.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: David Esslinger
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: welding
Is MIG welding acceptable for 4130 Steel?
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
Kit Fox and Avid used MIG welders on their respective 4130 fuselages.
My Avid was wrecked by a commercial pilot in 1993 (stalled out at appx. 200
feet after takeoff) and the airplane was demolished. The pilot was not injured,
but chromoly tubing (4130) was broken in a number of places. However, not a
single MIG weld joint came apart.
I also had welded a toe extension on the fuselage using a TIG system. Not a
single TIG joint broke either, yet the crash was so traumatic to the fuselage
and wings, tubing failed and broke in places other than joints.
I'd say to double check the Tony Bineglis series of books and get info from
this source. Most of the "old-school" thought still suggests using gas welding
however, but I'd say research this as best as you can, and if you aren't an
experienced welder, get some schooling or take it to a pro.
As a sidebar to this story, the Avid wing has aluminum tubular spars and
wooden ribs. The wooden ribs are glued the spar (don't be alarmed) and the process
that Dean Wilson developed (Dean designed the Avid and the Kitfox and the
Global Explorer to name a few) has never failed. When my Avid was wrecked, not
a
single wood to aluminum joint failed either. Furthermore, the fabric is glued
(not rib-stitched) to the rib. There was very little evidence of fabric
separation from the rib, except in the area where the wing actually impacted the
asphalt runway. The capstrip on the Avid, however, is 3 times as wide as an Air
Camper.
I'm not suggesting that rib-stitching not be used on an Air Camper. My Avid
was an Aerobatic Speedwing and the Avid factory demonstrator was an Aerobatic
tri-gear. We did all sorts of unusual maneuvers in these birds and fabric has
never, ever pulled away from a wooden capstrip. But, the capstrip was very
wide, and the glue process was much improved over what Bernard had access to many
years ago.
Sterling Brooks
Central Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | To the Fl., Ga., and Alabama guys and gals.... |
Hope everyone survived o.k. What a b..ch Frances was. We've just
now had our power turned back on, and the people from Daytona and south got hammered.
Thanks to all of the volunteer utility companies that come down to get things
back to normal. We saw several convoys of bucket trucks from N.C., headed
south yesterday. They're our heroes.
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
Please understand what the message is regarding welding. Yes, with the proper
knowledge and equipment, 4130 can be MIG welded, or TIG welded or diffusion bonded,
or even glued into bicycle-type fittings. Done properly, MIG welding can
save hours of work and produce beautiful and very reliable assemblies.
HOWEVER, for the normal homebuilder, who has a competent hobbyist's skill level,
cannot or will not spend the money on a heat-treat oven, and/or won't be able
to subject his work to the rigorous inspection that is performed by most liability-conscious
manufacturers, oxy-acetylene welding provides the safest and
cheapest way to fabricate a strong assembly of 4130.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 5:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
Kit Fox and Avid used MIG welders on their respective 4130 fuselages.
My Avid was wrecked by a commercial pilot in 1993 (stalled out at appx. 200 feet
after takeoff) and the airplane was demolished. The pilot was not injured,
but chromoly tubing (4130) was broken in a number of places. However, not a single
MIG weld joint came apart.
...snip...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | decorative propeller |
I've got a buddy who is looking for a prop to hang on his wall.
Anybody have a junker prop they want to sell?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Carmen" <jcar(at)nefcom.net> |
| Subject: | To the Fl., Ga., and Alabama guys and gals.... |
Hello Larry I lost power for about 24 hours here in Macclenny. Bunch
of limbs and braches lying around. Jacksonville schools were closed
today thus I don't have to go to work.
John C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Ragan
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: To the Fl., Ga., and Alabama guys and
gals....
Hope everyone survived o.k. What a b..ch Frances was. We've just now
had our power turned back on, and the people from Daytona and south got
hammered.
Thanks to all of the volunteer utility companies that come down to get
things back to normal. We saw several convoys of bucket trucks from
N.C., headed south yesterday. They're our heroes.
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
Forums.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: To the Fl., Ga., and Alabama guys and gals.... |
The Fla., Alabama and Georgia guys (as well as workers from Tenn., MO and a bunch
of others I didn't recognize the markings on the truck) were OUR heroes last
September when NC and VA got hit. None of us will ever be even, and maybe that's
good.
Hank (Took 9 months for the airport to fix my hangar door so I could get my plane
out!) J
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Ragan
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: To the Fl., Ga., and Alabama guys and gals....
Hope everyone survived o.k. What a b..ch Frances was. We've just now had our
power turned back on, and the people from Daytona and south got hammered.
Thanks to all of the volunteer utility companies that come down to get things
back to normal. We saw several convoys of bucket trucks from N.C., headed south
yesterday. They're our heroes.
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
Matronics Forums. http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 9/6/04 7:40:33 AM Central Daylight Time,
aquanaut(at)indy.rr.com writes:
<< Is MIG welding acceptable for 4130 Steel? >>
I use oxy / accy for any thin wall tubing. Mainly, because it works, it's
relatively inexpensive...and it's all I've got !! However, when the time comes,
I'm going to tack weld my Wittman Tailwind fuselage together with a borrowed
mig, then finish weld the entire airframe with oxy / accy, including
completely welding through the tack welds.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com> |
I need to finish my engine conversion. I have the manifold and exhaust left
to do. A few years ago the BPA newsletter had a note from a man who had
installed the water heated plate from a Ford Falcon between the manifold and
carb. I can't relocate the article and am wondering if anyone out there in
cyberland would be familiar with this approach. I have the water heated
plate from a Falcon, but the holes don't come close to lining up. I would
like to contact the person who used this approach to learn how he
accomplished the mounting. As much as the rpms drop when you pull the carb
heat on an aircraft engine I wonder if the same effect occurs on the "A"
engine when it is constantly fed warm air for combustion. Is it possible to
keep the manifold heated enough to stop icing but still use cool air intake
for greater power?
Carol and Ralph
Raymond
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | strap fitting between landing/flying wire attach points |
I've seen one some Piets, that their builders ran strap fittings across the bottom
cross piece between the landing gear/flying wire/strut attach fittings.
My project came with one he had run along the wooden cross piece traversing the
front cockpit floor between the front fittings, but there isn't one between the
rear set.
I can't find them on my plans so I'm thinking it is a builder addition. It kind
of makes sense, to just tie everything together side to side, so I'm thinking
I should add one to the back as well.
Any thoughts?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | N518EP at Blakesburg |
| From: | "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
I attended Blakesburg last weekend. There was only one Piet, 518EP. It
was beautiful, well built and light. The owner Ty Daniels said it
weighed 575 pounds. I believe he is from Brodhead. Ty are you on the
list? I have attached a picture.
Jack Textor
Des Moines
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
Ralph,
Carb icing doesn't occur in the manifold but in the carburetor itself, at
the venturi. It is the adiabatic cooling, caused by the drop in pressure at
the venturi, that causes the moisture in the air to condense out of the
airflow and freeze, when there is enough moisture in the air. Carburetor
heat raises the temperature of the incoming air to the point where the ice
melts.
If the carb heat is left on all the time, carb icing can still occur, but at
a much lower ambient air temperature than normally. If that happens, you
don't have any carb heat left to melt the ice...bad.
The RPM drop you get when you use carb heat is caused by the decreased
density of air that is taken into the cylinders, the same effect that is
felt, to a certain extent, on a hot day.
Having the water-heated plate would still heat the air going into the
cylinders but would probably not remove any ice formed in the venturi
upstream of the plate.
So, having the plate hot all the time would rob you of power and would
probably not do any good as carb heat.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: carb icing
>
> I need to finish my engine conversion. I have the manifold and exhaust
left
> to do. A few years ago the BPA newsletter had a note from a man who had
> installed the water heated plate from a Ford Falcon between the manifold
and
> carb. I can't relocate the article and am wondering if anyone out there
in
> cyberland would be familiar with this approach. I have the water heated
> plate from a Falcon, but the holes don't come close to lining up. I would
> like to contact the person who used this approach to learn how he
> accomplished the mounting. As much as the rpms drop when you pull the carb
> heat on an aircraft engine I wonder if the same effect occurs on the "A"
> engine when it is constantly fed warm air for combustion. Is it possible
to
> keep the manifold heated enough to stop icing but still use cool air
intake
> for greater power?
>
> Carol and Ralph
> Raymond
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard(at)titan.com> |
att
ach points
| Subject: | strap fitting between landing/flying wire att |
ach points
As I remember, both are mentioned on the plans as "optional". I'm certainly
planning to use them.
Spent yesterday evening fitting 3-piece wing root flashing. Lots of nits.
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Subject: Pietenpol-List: strap fitting between landing/flying wire attach
points
I've seen one some Piets, that their builders ran strap fittings across the
bottom cross piece between the landing gear/flying wire/strut attach
fittings.
My project came with one he had run along the wooden cross piece traversing
the front cockpit floor between the front fittings, but there isn't one
between the rear set.
I can't find them on my plans so I'm thinking it is a builder addition. It
kind of makes sense, to just tie everything together side to side, so I'm
thinking I should add one to the back as well.
Any thoughts?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fwd: [vula] Air Camper (Little joke :-) |
This Flying Flea is not a Pietenpol nor a GN-1...
But could qualify as an "Air Camper" ?
Saludos
Gary Gower.
> --- pietenpol2002 wrote:
>
> > To: vula(at)yahoogroups.com
> > From: "pietenpol2002" <jppp(at)juno.com>
> > Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 03:53:47 -0000
> > Subject: [vula] Air Camper
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Gives new meaning to Bernie Pietenpol's concept of
> > "Air Camper".
> >
> > Ron
> >
> > http://jolly.roger.free.fr/m111.htm
> >
> >
_______________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 75 Anniversary Hats are ready -Finally! |
Hey everyone, The hats are back from the embroidery shop and they look great.
Thanks to those who encouraged me to do this again this year. Im offering
free shipping to everyone on any number of hats. I can get the image on shirts
and fleece throws and may offer that if I can get my money back from hat sales.
Any proceeds will be used to support my family and low and slow flying habit!
More details below.
Ive got the same hat shells as last time, but with some added colors. Black
seemed to be the most popular front bill size and so I ordered most in black.
I do have a dozen each of the Green, Red, and Yellow Gold however.
Here is the specs and pricing:
The Hat:
Heavy Stone Washed Denim low crown unconstructed buckle back adjustment. Color
is khaki with a green, red, black or gold bill. (sorry no blue this time.)
One size fits all. Basically I got my favorite hat and called the manufacture
and spec'd it from it. You will love it. It is crushable and comfortable.
The Image:
The 75 year anniversary image will be similar to the one on previous years hats,
but this one has a Gold 75 YRS on the front. I think it is really cool.
Check the web site if you want to see the revised image.
http://aircamper.byu.edu
The embroidery:
13000 stitches of the finest thread. 75 Years in Gold thread
The price
$20
Free Shipping!!!
Send me an email including details and your Phone # to:
steve(at)byu.edu
Check or paypal OK.
Paypal address is wifeopilot(at)sfcn.org
Checks go to:
Steve Eldredge
2810 E Canyon Rd
Spanish Fork UT 84660
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | metric clevis pins |
Is there anyone on the list who is from a country where metric parts are available?
I have some small turnbuckles with a .150 hole in the pin end and I would like
to find some clevis pins to fit. Wicks has 1/8" pins, but they are a loose
fit.
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: metric clevis pins |
try Ronstan. they are from "down under" and may use metric sized parts.
http://www.ronstan.com/arch/
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Engelkenjohn
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 3:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: metric clevis pins
Is there anyone on the list who is from a country where metric parts are available?
I have some small turnbuckles with a .150 hole in the pin end and I would
like to find some clevis pins to fit. Wicks has 1/8" pins, but they are a loose
fit.
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
In a message dated 9/6/04 10:36:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< Can you guys estimate the max amount of force put on the rudder bar?
Mine is made of Ash wood which is very strong, I'm just a little concerned
that there's not enough "meat" left around the cable bolts for my taste.
Any ideas? >>
Douwe,
Ash wood is the Wrong material for a rudder bar. Remove it, and build one
the way the plans show. The rudder bar is one of the few things the plans call
out specifically 'Rudder bar is chrome molly tube' (4130 steel).
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
attach points
| Subject: | strap fitting between landing/flying wire attach points |
Douwe,
My British produced plans call for straps front and back. I have them
installed.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Subject: Pietenpol-List: strap fitting between landing/flying wire attach
points
I've seen one some Piets, that their builders ran strap fittings across the
bottom cross piece between the landing gear/flying wire/strut attach
fittings.
My project came with one he had run along the wooden cross piece traversing
the front cockpit floor between the front fittings, but there isn't one
between the rear set.
I can't find them on my plans so I'm thinking it is a builder addition. It
kind of makes sense, to just tie everything together side to side, so I'm
thinking I should add one to the back as well.
Any thoughts?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
attach points
| Subject: | Re: strap fitting between landing/flying wire attach points |
In a message dated 9/8/04 8:17:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< I've seen one some Piets, that their builders ran strap fittings across
the bottom cross piece between the landing gear/flying wire/strut attach
fittings.
My project came with one he had run along the wooden cross piece traversing
the front cockpit floor between the front fittings, but there isn't one
between the rear set.
I can't find them on my plans so I'm thinking it is a builder addition. It
kind of makes sense, to just tie everything together side to side, so I'm
thinking I should add one to the back as well.
Any thoughts? >>
Those straps need to be there, and are shown on Drawing No. 3. B.H.P. used
them. For new construction you can incorporate them into the tongue that
attaches the lower end of the lift struts, and use .060" X 2" wide straps. This
is what the illustration shows. Weld the gear lugs right to the bottom. They
go across the bottom, between the lift strut / gear attach fittings. They
accept the G loads of the wing, when you drop it in on landing.
I had some nasty squawks in this area, to take care of before I went on my
'Tour America'. On the front strap, it bowed down away from the bottom of the
fuse. The aft strap has bolts through it, securing the safety strap for the
control torque tube, rudder bar support, master cylinder pivots, and seat belt
lugs. No problem on the aft strap. I drilled one hole in the middle of the
front strap, but it was still not enough. The strap now bows down on the left
side, between the gear lug, and bolt. I will add another bolt to each side of
the center bolt, for a total of three #10 bolts spaced evenly across the
strap. I also had to rework the four 'L' brackets on the inside. They were not
thick enough, and were not 4130 steel, so the bolt torque dimpled them. I made
new ones, and used .060" for the inside 'L' brackets. This was the same AOG
(aircraft on ground) period that I built spring struts, to replace the bunji
struts. I much prefer the spring struts. I have tested this airframe design
to the extreem, by bounding in some really nasty landings, and I can't break
it !! The best part is that I can regain control. Bernard Harold Pietenpol
really got it right in his design...don't change it !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
There is nothing wrong (engineering wise, I'm not going to the "originality"
place again) with a wood rudder bar. I find the feel better than tubes
through soft sole shoes. The max force is limited by the shear or bending
strength (which ever is lower) of the pivot pin that attaches the bar
(unless the hard point the pivot goes through in the fuselage is weaker).
Remember, when you are being chased by a lion, you don't need to be faster
than the lion. You only need to be faster than the guy next to you. Just
make sure the bar is stronger than the weakest part that the bar load passes
through. Once you know the strength of the pivot pin, just hang the bar
from a piece of rod stock or a bolt of the same material in double shear
(only half the load is in the pin that way) and hang half the pivot strength
load from each end of the bar. If it doesn't fail, it's OK.
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
>
> In a message dated 9/6/04 10:36:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:
>
> << Can you guys estimate the max amount of force put on the rudder bar?
>
> Mine is made of Ash wood which is very strong, I'm just a little
concerned
> that there's not enough "meat" left around the cable bolts for my taste.
>
> Any ideas? >>
>
> Douwe,
> Ash wood is the Wrong material for a rudder bar. Remove it, and build one
> the way the plans show. The rudder bar is one of the few things the plans
call
> out specifically 'Rudder bar is chrome molly tube' (4130 steel).
>
> Chuck G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 75 Anniversary Hats are ready -Finally! |
In a message dated 9/8/04 2:13:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, steve(at)byu.edu
writes:
<< http://aircamper.byu.edu >>
great photos
Henry Williams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
IMO flight controls should be made from 4130 steel (and in some carefully
engineered cases, aluminum).
Would you use a broom handle for a control stick?!
DJ
:)
----- Original Message -----
From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
>
> There is nothing wrong (engineering wise, I'm not going to the
"originality"
> place again) with a wood rudder bar. I find the feel better than tubes
> through soft sole shoes. The max force is limited by the shear or bending
> strength (which ever is lower) of the pivot pin that attaches the bar
> (unless the hard point the pivot goes through in the fuselage is weaker).
> Remember, when you are being chased by a lion, you don't need to be faster
> than the lion. You only need to be faster than the guy next to you. Just
> make sure the bar is stronger than the weakest part that the bar load
passes
> through. Once you know the strength of the pivot pin, just hang the bar
> from a piece of rod stock or a bolt of the same material in double shear
> (only half the load is in the pin that way) and hang half the pivot
strength
> load from each end of the bar. If it doesn't fail, it's OK.
> Hank J
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 7:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 9/6/04 10:36:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:
> >
> > << Can you guys estimate the max amount of force put on the rudder bar?
> >
> > Mine is made of Ash wood which is very strong, I'm just a little
> concerned
> > that there's not enough "meat" left around the cable bolts for my taste.
> >
> > Any ideas? >>
> >
> > Douwe,
> > Ash wood is the Wrong material for a rudder bar. Remove it, and build
one
> > the way the plans show. The rudder bar is one of the few things the
plans
> call
> > out specifically 'Rudder bar is chrome molly tube' (4130 steel).
> >
> > Chuck G.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net> |
attach
points
| Subject: | Re: strap fitting between landing/flying wire attach |
points
Douwe:
I ran one across fore and aft. Yeah, I know it adds weight, but it is
real easy to take of the gear in one piece and roll it out of the way
when I am covering the fuselage.
Mike L.
NX1953M
Douwe Blumberg wrote:
> I've seen one some Piets, that their builders ran strap fittings
> across the bottom cross piece between the landing gear/flying
> wire/strut attach fittings. My project came with one he had run along
> the wooden cross piece traversing the front cockpit floor between the
> front fittings, but there isn't one between the rear set. I can't find
> them on my plans so I'm thinking it is a builder addition. It kind of
> makes sense, to just tie everything together side to side, so I'm
> thinking I should add one to the back as well. Any thoughts? Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gussets, Gussets, Gussets |
I have two question about gussets:
1. What is the width of the fuselage gussets? From looking at the plans and photos
I assume that they are about 2-1/2" wide x "X length" i.e.: required to
cover the trusses and diagonals. Am I correct?
2. Are the inside gussets for the fuselage cut away so the top and bottom trusses
and diagonals can mate directly to the longerons. I would assume this is
the reason they are mostly 1/2" x 1" x "X". I have seen in photos that this doesn't
seem to be the case but it seems illogical.
Thanks,
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
I have to retract something I previously said about AS&S (I recommended people
not buy from them), to wit:
When I bought my spruce kit from AS&S I elected for the (their) "Modernized Pietenpol"
due to it being their only option for the three piece wing. I wrongly
assumed this was the "Improved Aircamper" (1933). It was not. I found out I
could have (read: should have) elected for the standard Piet spruce kit and got
some extra wood for the center section. As it was I paid about $300 extra
for those two pieces and a lot of "thicker" wood and some "shorter" pieces (#6
trusses) and had to sacrifice the 1x1's of the elevators for those. And was
missing the 1x1 for the rudder entirely to boot. Anyway, I was pretty upset and
felt that AS&S should have designed/planned their kit better as there wasn't
even enough to finish the basics without ordering extra stock...
Yesterday I spoke with one of their customer service department folks and explained
the situation. She said she would try and get the material and shipping
waved and sent two-day air. I wasn't really in the mood to battle over the $300.00
extra I paid as I was on my way to work and I will save that for another
day. I though that was that...
This morning I got a call from who I assumed was another of their customer relations
people and I began to explain the situation to her. She kept cutting me
off and I was almost at the "Okay now let REALLY talk" stage, i.e.: I'll scream
you listen. When I realized that she was not from customer relations at all
and was in fact from their catalog/materials department. She was calling me
to find out what was wrong with their kit. Put another way, "What did we (meaning
AS&S) screw up on in the kit and how can we fix it. Not only for you, but
for 'everyone'". WOW!
Though I'm still not thrilled that I paid extra money to begin with, that kind
of service is certainly a rarity nowadays. It was completely unexpected and I
was impressed!
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
<005801c4960a$16b952e0$d2ddf6ce@hjarrett>
Douwe:
I have been a cabinetmaker for years and years and have spent extra time
incorporating wooden touches in my plane, but it never occured to me to use Ash
for a rudder bar. Now that you have mentioned it I have a couple of ideas that
might be fun, but only if they are safe and fairly light weight. Maybe two
layers of .063 chrome moly plate with an ash center, kinda like a sandwich. Or
two layers of ash with a rectangular tube steel center. Add a few lightening
holes and test it next to Bernies idea of a rudder bar. If you are comfortable
with a total destruction test on your original idea, then its ok by me.
As the saying goes, "You can build it different than Bernie, but you can't build
it better"
Take care,
Mike L.
hjarrett wrote:
>
> There is nothing wrong (engineering wise, I'm not going to the "originality"
> place again) with a wood rudder bar. I find the feel better than tubes
> through soft sole shoes. The max force is limited by the shear or bending
> strength (which ever is lower) of the pivot pin that attaches the bar
> (unless the hard point the pivot goes through in the fuselage is weaker).
> Remember, when you are being chased by a lion, you don't need to be faster
> than the lion. You only need to be faster than the guy next to you. Just
> make sure the bar is stronger than the weakest part that the bar load passes
> through. Once you know the strength of the pivot pin, just hang the bar
> from a piece of rod stock or a bolt of the same material in double shear
> (only half the load is in the pin that way) and hang half the pivot strength
> load from each end of the bar. If it doesn't fail, it's OK.
> Hank J
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 7:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
>
> >
> > In a message dated 9/6/04 10:36:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:
> >
> > << Can you guys estimate the max amount of force put on the rudder bar?
> >
> > Mine is made of Ash wood which is very strong, I'm just a little
> concerned
> > that there's not enough "meat" left around the cable bolts for my taste.
> >
> > Any ideas? >>
> >
> > Douwe,
> > Ash wood is the Wrong material for a rudder bar. Remove it, and build one
> > the way the plans show. The rudder bar is one of the few things the plans
> call
> > out specifically 'Rudder bar is chrome molly tube' (4130 steel).
> >
> > Chuck G.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gussets, Gussets, Gussets |
Stacy:
I have 2 1/4 wide gussets
My inside gussets for the fuselage aren't cut away. Notching the
gusset weakens the strength of the vertical truss and does not add any
strength to the horizontal truss.
Take care,
Mike L
NX1953M
272 other bikers and I attended the "Live Ride" (Anchorage to Kenai)
and were fortunate to raise $53,000 for the MDA kids. Feels gooood!!
Stacy Clark wrote:
> I have two question about gussets: 1. What is the width of the
> fuselage gussets? From looking at the plans and photos I assume that
> they are about 2-1/2" wide x "X length" i.e.: required to cover the
> trusses and diagonals. Am I correct? 2. Are the inside gussets for
> the fuselage cut away so the top and bottom trusses and diagonals can
> mate directly to the longerons. I would assume this is the reason
> they are mostly 1/2" x 1" x "X". I have seen in photos that this
> doesn't seem to be the case but it seems illogical. Thanks,Stacy There
> is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
> is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | rudder bar pressures |
Actually, the old WACO biplanes did use wood for their control sticks. I
believe they were hickory but am not sure. There is at least one advantage
to a wooden control stick - it does not affect the compass. The compass on
my Piet is in the instrument panel and the steel stick comes close enough to
the compass that it definitely affects the compass. Rapid stick movements
can make the compass swing through an entire revolution. Not that I will be
makeing rapid movements while trying to fly a compass course, but it does
mean that when swinging the compass, the stick must be held in level flight
position or the compass will give erroneous readings.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
IMO flight controls should be made from 4130 steel (and in some carefully
engineered cases, aluminum).
Would you use a broom handle for a control stick?!
DJ
:)
----- Original Message -----
From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
>
> There is nothing wrong (engineering wise, I'm not going to the
"originality"
> place again) with a wood rudder bar. I find the feel better than tubes
> through soft sole shoes. The max force is limited by the shear or bending
> strength (which ever is lower) of the pivot pin that attaches the bar
> (unless the hard point the pivot goes through in the fuselage is weaker).
> Remember, when you are being chased by a lion, you don't need to be faster
> than the lion. You only need to be faster than the guy next to you. Just
> make sure the bar is stronger than the weakest part that the bar load
passes
> through. Once you know the strength of the pivot pin, just hang the bar
> from a piece of rod stock or a bolt of the same material in double shear
> (only half the load is in the pin that way) and hang half the pivot
strength
> load from each end of the bar. If it doesn't fail, it's OK.
> Hank J
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 7:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 9/6/04 10:36:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:
> >
> > << Can you guys estimate the max amount of force put on the rudder bar?
> >
> > Mine is made of Ash wood which is very strong, I'm just a little
> concerned
> > that there's not enough "meat" left around the cable bolts for my taste.
> >
> > Any ideas? >>
> >
> > Douwe,
> > Ash wood is the Wrong material for a rudder bar. Remove it, and build
one
> > the way the plans show. The rudder bar is one of the few things the
plans
> call
> > out specifically 'Rudder bar is chrome molly tube' (4130 steel).
> >
> > Chuck G.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
<001501c4960f$6be96430$0100a8c0@Desktop>
| Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
You can make ANYTHING in an airplane from anything you want as long as the
properties of the material you select along with the section characteristics
of the part will carry the loads. I have a garage broom in my house that I
wouldn't hesitate a moment to use for a stick, as long as I tested it and
proved it was capable of taking the loads I would impose on it. There is
NOTHING magic about "aircraft" materials and an improperly designed Titanium
part will fail long before a properly designed one made from old toilet
paper tubes. You actually made my point when you said "in some carefully
engineered cases". Hundreds of planes fly with wood rudder bars and
sticks. Test it for the loads it will see plus a safety margin and go fly.
You can't just go around substituting materials, but that isn't what he did.
Hank (that broom has one nice piece of wood in the handle) J
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
>
> IMO flight controls should be made from 4130 steel (and in some carefully
> engineered cases, aluminum).
>
> Would you use a broom handle for a control stick?!
>
> DJ
>
> :)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 6:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
>
>
> >
> > There is nothing wrong (engineering wise, I'm not going to the
> "originality"
> > place again) with a wood rudder bar. I find the feel better than tubes
> > through soft sole shoes. The max force is limited by the shear or
bending
> > strength (which ever is lower) of the pivot pin that attaches the bar
> > (unless the hard point the pivot goes through in the fuselage is
weaker).
> > Remember, when you are being chased by a lion, you don't need to be
faster
> > than the lion. You only need to be faster than the guy next to you.
Just
> > make sure the bar is stronger than the weakest part that the bar load
> passes
> > through. Once you know the strength of the pivot pin, just hang the bar
> > from a piece of rod stock or a bolt of the same material in double shear
> > (only half the load is in the pin that way) and hang half the pivot
> strength
> > load from each end of the bar. If it doesn't fail, it's OK.
> > Hank J
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 7:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
> >
> >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 9/6/04 10:36:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > > douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:
> > >
> > > << Can you guys estimate the max amount of force put on the rudder
bar?
> > >
> > > Mine is made of Ash wood which is very strong, I'm just a little
> > concerned
> > > that there's not enough "meat" left around the cable bolts for my
taste.
> > >
> > > Any ideas? >>
> > >
> > > Douwe,
> > > Ash wood is the Wrong material for a rudder bar. Remove it, and build
> one
> > > the way the plans show. The rudder bar is one of the few things the
> plans
> > call
> > > out specifically 'Rudder bar is chrome molly tube' (4130 steel).
> > >
> > > Chuck G.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
Stacy,
I got my spruce from AS&S about 6 years ago. First they sent me a list of materials
that they would supply. And they sent a personal list from a previous builder
that they based it on.
August 24, 2004 - September 09, 2004
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ea