Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-eb
September 09, 2004 - September 23, 2004
I said it was OK and ordered it. The order was great! Short on nothing, and even
a few xtra pieces. It was based on the long fuse with the three piece wing(had
the 4 long spars and the two short for the center section.
Maybe they had some kind of change of command thru the years and lost the list.
I had scanned all my paperwork on the lumber lists and list that was based on.
I'll email it to you if you'd like.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Stacy Clark
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 1:34 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty
I have to retract something I previously said about AS&S (I recommended people
not buy from them), to wit:
When I bought my spruce kit from AS&S I elected for the (their) "Modernized Pietenpol"
due to it being their only option for the three piece wing. I wrongly
assumed this was the "Improved Aircamper" (1933). It was not. I found out
I could have (read: should have) elected for the standard Piet spruce kit and
got some extra wood for the center section. As it was I paid about $300 extra
for those two pieces and a lot of "thicker" wood and some "shorter" pieces (#6
trusses) and had to sacrifice the 1x1's of the elevators for those. And was
missing the 1x1 for the rudder entirely to boot. Anyway, I was pretty upset
and felt that AS&S should have designed/planned their kit better as there wasn't
even enough to finish the basics without ordering extra stock...
Yesterday I spoke with one of their customer service department folks and explained
the situation. She said she would try and get the material and shipping
waved and sent two-day air. I wasn't really in the mood to battle over the
$300.00 extra I paid as I was on my way to work and I will save that for another
day. I though that was that...
This morning I got a call from who I assumed was another of their customer relations
people and I began to explain the situation to her. She kept cutting
me off and I was almost at the "Okay now let REALLY talk" stage, i.e.: I'll scream
you listen. When I realized that she was not from customer relations at
all and was in fact from their catalog/materials department. She was calling
me to find out what was wrong with their kit. Put another way, "What did we (meaning
AS&S) screw up on in the kit and how can we fix it. Not only for you,
but for 'everyone'". WOW!
Though I'm still not thrilled that I paid extra money to begin with, that kind
of service is certainly a rarity nowadays. It was completely unexpected and
I was impressed!
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
I agree with this.
I'm a computer nerd by profession, but I also spent 3 years at two nights a
week leaning welding. I certified on stick, and was working on a MIG cert
when the program came unglued.
All things being equal, gas is easier to learn. There are those who have
learned on MIG without ever learning gas and claim it's easier, but I
question whether their welds would hold up to strength testing and x-ray
inspection. With gas, you've got your heat source in one hand and your
filler rod in the other, which makes it easier to control how much of each
you use. On a MIG (GMAW) welder, both heat and feed rate are controlled by
knobs on the face of the welder. When you pull the trigger, you get what
you've set up. If you don't know how to translate what is happening when
you strike a weld, you risk having problems. A good MIG weld will sound
like eggs frying. Personally, if you don't understand how to gas weld,
you've got no business welding with MIG.
When learning to weld, you're usually given a flat plate and you weld in a
straight line. This doesn't require you to reposition your arms or body to
complete the weld. Once you've learned this, then you learn to go around
curves, specifically pipe. I started on the pipe cert (using stick (SMAW))
with 6" diameter pipe, but decided I had no personal use for it and moved
on to MIG. The largest diameter you've going to see doing a 4130 tube
fuselage is going to be an inch or so. Unless you've got a rotating jig,
this is going to require you to wrap yourself around the joint as you weld
it up. And worse yet, it's in clusters, so you've got all this other stuff
in the way, which means you're going to be crawling through this thing like
a jungle gym. My guess is you're going to have to start and stop a
full-circle weld of these diameters at least 3 times (maybe 2, if you're a
good contortionist), just to get positioned. Each time creates the
possibility of some weakness, but if you start and stop correctly, you can
control this.
Everything I've read about using TIG (GTAW) on 4130 tubing requires the
welder to go back and normalize the weld area, because the heat is applied
to a very localized area and the surrounding area gets very little. I've
seen a bunch of welds in which the joint held OK, but the tubing broke
right next to the weld because it was too brittle. The only thing I like
more about TIG in this application is that gas can be prone to inclusions
(unwanted stuff embedded in the weld), where it is really minimized with
TIG. But I don't think the difference here is enough to worry about. If I
had a TIG rig, I'd personally do my fuselage with TIG, then go back and
normalize with gas. But I don't, so mine will be gas welded.
I couldn't really justify the $1400 for the Lincoln 175 at Sun 'n Fun the
last 2 years, and this is about the lowest I'd go for a good TIG machine.
Besides, a gas rig is cheaper than MIG or TIG, unless you've got acccess to
somebody else's equipment. Although I personally buy my gas bottles, they
can also be leased for a short or long term. Sometimes I'll lease big
bottles if I've got a large job to do. If you're going to buy gas equipment
to do your plane, pick up a Meco, Smith, or Henrob torch body. I wouldn't
try it with a full-sized Victor torch; they're good units for larger stuff,
but they're just not agile enough for what you need here.
Although I don't want to encourage sloppiness, we're all (I think) human
here. One of the plus sides to gas is that it's more forgiving of mistakes;
a less-than-perfect weld in gas will work. In MIG or TIG your odds are a
lot worse.
Jim Ash
>Please understand what the message is regarding welding. Yes, with the
>proper knowledge and equipment, 4130 can be MIG welded, or TIG welded or
>diffusion bonded, or even glued into bicycle-type fittings. Done
>properly, MIG welding can save hours of work and produce beautiful and
>very reliable assemblies.
>HOWEVER, for the normal homebuilder, who has a competent hobbyist's skill
>level, cannot or will not spend the money on a heat-treat oven, and/or
>won't be able to subject his work to the rigorous inspection that is
>performed by most liability-conscious manufacturers, oxy-acetylene welding
>provides the safest and cheapest way to fabricate a strong assembly of 4130.
>
>Mike Hardaway
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:N321TX(at)wmconnect.com>N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 5:35 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
>
>Kit Fox and Avid used MIG welders on their respective 4130 fuselages.
>
>My Avid was wrecked by a commercial pilot in 1993 (stalled out at appx.
>200 feet after takeoff) and the airplane was demolished. The pilot was not
>injured, but chromoly tubing (4130) was broken in a number of places.
>However, not a single MIG weld joint came apart.
>
>...snip...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
So do Stearmans
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
>
> Actually, the old WACO biplanes did use wood for their control sticks. I
> believe they were hickory but am not sure. There is at least one
advantage
> to a wooden control stick - it does not affect the compass. The compass
on
> my Piet is in the instrument panel and the steel stick comes close enough
to
> the compass that it definitely affects the compass. Rapid stick movements
> can make the compass swing through an entire revolution. Not that I will
be
> makeing rapid movements while trying to fly a compass course, but it does
> mean that when swinging the compass, the stick must be held in level
flight
> position or the compass will give erroneous readings.
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 9:51 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
>
>
> IMO flight controls should be made from 4130 steel (and in some carefully
> engineered cases, aluminum).
>
> Would you use a broom handle for a control stick?!
>
> DJ
>
> :)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 6:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
>
>
> >
> > There is nothing wrong (engineering wise, I'm not going to the
> "originality"
> > place again) with a wood rudder bar. I find the feel better than tubes
> > through soft sole shoes. The max force is limited by the shear or
bending
> > strength (which ever is lower) of the pivot pin that attaches the bar
> > (unless the hard point the pivot goes through in the fuselage is
weaker).
> > Remember, when you are being chased by a lion, you don't need to be
faster
> > than the lion. You only need to be faster than the guy next to you.
Just
> > make sure the bar is stronger than the weakest part that the bar load
> passes
> > through. Once you know the strength of the pivot pin, just hang the bar
> > from a piece of rod stock or a bolt of the same material in double shear
> > (only half the load is in the pin that way) and hang half the pivot
> strength
> > load from each end of the bar. If it doesn't fail, it's OK.
> > Hank J
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 7:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
> >
> >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 9/6/04 10:36:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > > douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:
> > >
> > > << Can you guys estimate the max amount of force put on the rudder
bar?
> > >
> > > Mine is made of Ash wood which is very strong, I'm just a little
> > concerned
> > > that there's not enough "meat" left around the cable bolts for my
taste.
> > >
> > > Any ideas? >>
> > >
> > > Douwe,
> > > Ash wood is the Wrong material for a rudder bar. Remove it, and build
> one
> > > the way the plans show. The rudder bar is one of the few things the
> plans
> > call
> > > out specifically 'Rudder bar is chrome molly tube' (4130 steel).
> > >
> > > Chuck G.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
<005801c4960a$16b952e0$d2ddf6ce@hjarrett>
Like Hank sez, there is nothing wrong with using ash for a rudder
bar-------the Curtiss Jenny had it
along with many early aircraft. There is nothing wrong with a hardwood
control stick either.
Look at the Jenny on the cover of the September issue of Sport Aviation
where the builder used AX HANDLES
for the main gear legs---made of ash.
Mike C.
>
>IMO flight controls should be made from 4130 steel (and in some carefully
>engineered cases, aluminum).
>
>Would you use a broom handle for a control stick?!
>
>DJ
>
>:)
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 6:12 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
>
>
> >
> > There is nothing wrong (engineering wise, I'm not going to the
>"originality"
> > place again) with a wood rudder bar. I find the feel better than tubes
> > through soft sole shoes. The max force is limited by the shear or bending
> > strength (which ever is lower) of the pivot pin that attaches the bar
> > (unless the hard point the pivot goes through in the fuselage is weaker).
> > Remember, when you are being chased by a lion, you don't need to be faster
> > than the lion. You only need to be faster than the guy next to you. Just
> > make sure the bar is stronger than the weakest part that the bar load
>passes
> > through. Once you know the strength of the pivot pin, just hang the bar
> > from a piece of rod stock or a bolt of the same material in double shear
> > (only half the load is in the pin that way) and hang half the pivot
>strength
> > load from each end of the bar. If it doesn't fail, it's OK.
> > Hank J
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 7:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
> >
> >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 9/6/04 10:36:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > > douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:
> > >
> > > << Can you guys estimate the max amount of force put on the rudder bar?
> > >
> > > Mine is made of Ash wood which is very strong, I'm just a little
> > concerned
> > > that there's not enough "meat" left around the cable bolts for my taste.
> > >
> > > Any ideas? >>
> > >
> > > Douwe,
> > > Ash wood is the Wrong material for a rudder bar. Remove it, and build
>one
> > > the way the plans show. The rudder bar is one of the few things the
>plans
> > call
> > > out specifically 'Rudder bar is chrome molly tube' (4130 steel).
> > >
> > > Chuck G.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
Stacy-- some guys on the Corby Starlet list have been having fits with kits
from ASSco, but just recently they too have called to find out what
is missing in the kits and what they can do to correct it. Refreshing, to
say the least. At least they are making an effort---and don't you think
for one minute that Jim Irwin is not lurking on all of our lists !!!!!!!
Mike C.
>I have to retract something I previously said about AS&S (I recommended
>people not buy from them), to wit:
>
>When I bought my spruce kit from AS&S I elected for the (their)
>"Modernized Pietenpol" due to it being their only option for the three
>piece wing. I wrongly assumed this was the "Improved Aircamper"
>(1933). It was not. I found out I could have (read: should have) elected
>for the standard Piet spruce kit and got some extra wood for the center
>section. As it was I paid about $300 extra for those two pieces and a lot
>of "thicker" wood and some "shorter" pieces (#6 trusses) and had to
>sacrifice the 1x1's of the elevators for those. And was missing the 1x1
>for the rudder entirely to boot. Anyway, I was pretty upset and felt that
>AS&S should have designed/planned their kit better as there wasn't even
>enough to finish the basics without ordering extra stock...
>
>Yesterday I spoke with one of their customer service department folks and
>explained the situation. She said she would try and get the material and
>shipping waved and sent two-day air. I wasn't really in the mood to
>battle over the $300.00 extra I paid as I was on my way to work and I will
>save that for another day. I though that was that...
>
>This morning I got a call from who I assumed was another of their customer
>relations people and I began to explain the situation to her. She kept
>cutting me off and I was almost at the "Okay now let REALLY talk" stage,
>i.e.: I'll scream you listen. When I realized that she was not from
>customer relations at all and was in fact from their catalog/materials
>department. She was calling me to find out what was wrong with their
>kit. Put another way, "What did we (meaning AS&S) screw up on in the kit
>and how can we fix it. Not only for you, but for 'everyone'". WOW!
>
>Though I'm still not thrilled that I paid extra money to begin with, that
>kind of service is certainly a rarity nowadays. It was completely
>unexpected and I was impressed!
>
>Stacy
>
>
>There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and
>that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
DJ,
Just do a some testing. Can you break the broom handle with on hand?
If you can't, then is OK to use it as a control stick. The force
aplied is important. If there are no safety belts and when your plane
goes inverted, then the control stick has to be 4130 to hold you from
falling off the plane :-) :-) :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- DJ Vegh wrote:
>
> IMO flight controls should be made from 4130 steel (and in some
> carefully
> engineered cases, aluminum).
>
> Would you use a broom handle for a control stick?!
>
> DJ
>
> :)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 6:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
>
>
>
> >
> > There is nothing wrong (engineering wise, I'm not going to the
> "originality"
> > place again) with a wood rudder bar. I find the feel better than
> tubes
> > through soft sole shoes. The max force is limited by the shear or
> bending
> > strength (which ever is lower) of the pivot pin that attaches the
> bar
> > (unless the hard point the pivot goes through in the fuselage is
> weaker).
> > Remember, when you are being chased by a lion, you don't need to be
> faster
> > than the lion. You only need to be faster than the guy next to
> you. Just
> > make sure the bar is stronger than the weakest part that the bar
> load
> passes
> > through. Once you know the strength of the pivot pin, just hang
> the bar
> > from a piece of rod stock or a bolt of the same material in double
> shear
> > (only half the load is in the pin that way) and hang half the pivot
> strength
> > load from each end of the bar. If it doesn't fail, it's OK.
> > Hank J
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 7:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
> >
> >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 9/6/04 10:36:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > > douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:
> > >
> > > << Can you guys estimate the max amount of force put on the
> rudder bar?
> > >
> > > Mine is made of Ash wood which is very strong, I'm just a little
> > concerned
> > > that there's not enough "meat" left around the cable bolts for my
> taste.
> > >
> > > Any ideas? >>
> > >
> > > Douwe,
> > > Ash wood is the Wrong material for a rudder bar. Remove it, and
> build
> one
> > > the way the plans show. The rudder bar is one of the few things
> the
> plans
> > call
> > > out specifically 'Rudder bar is chrome molly tube' (4130 steel).
> > >
> > > Chuck G.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Botsford" <botsford7(at)hot.rr.com> |
Next month's issue of Sport Aviation will have the first in a series of articles
on welding aircraft alloy steels. It will be very helpful to those interested
in welding parts for aircraft use ( and others as well). The series is authored
by a gentleman named Scott Helzer. He recently conducted an extensive research
program on the methodology of welding for aircraft. I think this will
be very helpful and put to rest a lot of speculation as to what are the best
practices.
Jon Botsford
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Ash
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
I agree with this.
I'm a computer nerd by profession, but I also spent 3 years at two nights a week
leaning welding. I certified on stick, and was working on a MIG cert when
the program came unglued.
All things being equal, gas is easier to learn. There are those who have learned
on MIG without ever learning gas and claim it's easier, but I question whether
their welds would hold up to strength testing and x-ray inspection. With
gas, you've got your heat source in one hand and your filler rod in the other,
which makes it easier to control how much of each you use. On a MIG (GMAW) welder,
both heat and feed rate are controlled by knobs on the face of the welder.
When you pull the trigger, you get what you've set up. If you don't know how
to translate what is happening when you strike a weld, you risk having problems.
A good MIG weld will sound like eggs frying. Personally, if you don't understand
how to gas weld, you've got no business welding with MIG.
When learning to weld, you're usually given a flat plate and you weld in a straight
line. This doesn't require you to reposition your arms or body to complete
the weld. Once you've learned this, then you learn to go around curves, specifically
pipe. I started on the pipe cert (using stick (SMAW)) with 6" diameter
pipe, but decided I had no personal use for it and moved on to MIG. The largest
diameter you've going to see doing a 4130 tube fuselage is going to be an
inch or so. Unless you've got a rotating jig, this is going to require you to
wrap yourself around the joint as you weld it up. And worse yet, it's in clusters,
so you've got all this other stuff in the way, which means you're going
to be crawling through this thing like a jungle gym. My guess is you're going
to have to start and stop a full-circle weld of these diameters at least 3 times
(maybe 2, if you're a good contortionist), just to get positioned. Each time
creates the possibility of some weakness, but if you start and stop correctly,
you can control this.
Everything I've read about using TIG (GTAW) on 4130 tubing requires the welder
to go back and normalize the weld area, because the heat is applied to a very
localized area and the surrounding area gets very little. I've seen a bunch
of welds in which the joint held OK, but the tubing broke right next to the weld
because it was too brittle. The only thing I like more about TIG in this application
is that gas can be prone to inclusions (unwanted stuff embedded in the
weld), where it is really minimized with TIG. But I don't think the difference
here is enough to worry about. If I had a TIG rig, I'd personally do my fuselage
with TIG, then go back and normalize with gas. But I don't, so mine will
be gas welded.
I couldn't really justify the $1400 for the Lincoln 175 at Sun 'n Fun the last
2 years, and this is about the lowest I'd go for a good TIG machine. Besides,
a gas rig is cheaper than MIG or TIG, unless you've got acccess to somebody
else's equipment. Although I personally buy my gas bottles, they can also be leased
for a short or long term. Sometimes I'll lease big bottles if I've got a
large job to do. If you're going to buy gas equipment to do your plane, pick
up a Meco, Smith, or Henrob torch body. I wouldn't try it with a full-sized Victor
torch; they're good units for larger stuff, but they're just not agile enough
for what you need here.
Although I don't want to encourage sloppiness, we're all (I think) human here.
One of the plus sides to gas is that it's more forgiving of mistakes; a less-than-perfect
weld in gas will work. In MIG or TIG your odds are a lot worse.
Jim Ash
Please understand what the message is regarding welding. Yes, with the proper
knowledge and equipment, 4130 can be MIG welded, or TIG welded or diffusion
bonded, or even glued into bicycle-type fittings. Done properly, MIG welding
can save hours of work and produce beautiful and very reliable assemblies.
HOWEVER, for the normal homebuilder, who has a competent hobbyist's skill level,
cannot or will not spend the money on a heat-treat oven, and/or won't be
able to subject his work to the rigorous inspection that is performed by most
liability-conscious manufacturers, oxy-acetylene welding provides the safest
and cheapest way to fabricate a strong assembly of 4130.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 5:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
Kit Fox and Avid used MIG welders on their respective 4130 fuselages.
My Avid was wrecked by a commercial pilot in 1993 (stalled out at appx. 200
feet after takeoff) and the airplane was demolished. The pilot was not injured,
but chromoly tubing (4130) was broken in a number of places. However, not
a single MIG weld joint came apart.
...snip...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
I like safety margins, I'll use BOTH hands (and have my wife pulling too,
just to be safe).
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
>
> DJ,
>
> Just do a some testing. Can you break the broom handle with on hand?
>
> If you can't, then is OK to use it as a control stick. The force
> aplied is important. If there are no safety belts and when your plane
> goes inverted, then the control stick has to be 4130 to hold you from
> falling off the plane :-) :-) :-)
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower.
>
> --- DJ Vegh wrote:
>
> >
> > IMO flight controls should be made from 4130 steel (and in some
> > carefully
> > engineered cases, aluminum).
> >
> > Would you use a broom handle for a control stick?!
> >
> > DJ
> >
> > :)
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 6:12 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > There is nothing wrong (engineering wise, I'm not going to the
> > "originality"
> > > place again) with a wood rudder bar. I find the feel better than
> > tubes
> > > through soft sole shoes. The max force is limited by the shear or
> > bending
> > > strength (which ever is lower) of the pivot pin that attaches the
> > bar
> > > (unless the hard point the pivot goes through in the fuselage is
> > weaker).
> > > Remember, when you are being chased by a lion, you don't need to be
> > faster
> > > than the lion. You only need to be faster than the guy next to
> > you. Just
> > > make sure the bar is stronger than the weakest part that the bar
> > load
> > passes
> > > through. Once you know the strength of the pivot pin, just hang
> > the bar
> > > from a piece of rod stock or a bolt of the same material in double
> > shear
> > > (only half the load is in the pin that way) and hang half the pivot
> > strength
> > > load from each end of the bar. If it doesn't fail, it's OK.
> > > Hank J
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 7:38 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 9/6/04 10:36:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > > > douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:
> > > >
> > > > << Can you guys estimate the max amount of force put on the
> > rudder bar?
> > > >
> > > > Mine is made of Ash wood which is very strong, I'm just a little
> > > concerned
> > > > that there's not enough "meat" left around the cable bolts for my
> > taste.
> > > >
> > > > Any ideas? >>
> > > >
> > > > Douwe,
> > > > Ash wood is the Wrong material for a rudder bar. Remove it, and
> > build
> > one
> > > > the way the plans show. The rudder bar is one of the few things
> > the
> > plans
> > > call
> > > > out specifically 'Rudder bar is chrome molly tube' (4130 steel).
> > > >
> > > > Chuck G.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Morris <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com> |
Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
<000b01c495a7$95ca80d0$0201a8c0@Joe2>
Howdy.
Just a couple of notes on carb ice - it happens, and it is bad -
particularly in an aircraft where you really want that power.
Traditional air cooled aircraft engines use heated induction air to melt
the ice off. As mentioned, this robs an engine of power due to the fact
that heated air is less dense than cool air. Heated air, however, this
isn't the only way. A water cooled engine has other options - and the
model A is water cooled. Here, we can use water cooling technology
(although more advanced than a Model A). Hence, the heated plate. It
works differently than a typical aircraft carb heat. It simply warms
the carbuerator up to the point that ice cannot form on it and clog it.
The ice simply makes its way into the engine, melts, and goes the same
way it would go in a fuel injected engine - it just runs through.
Power is not appreciably affected, because the air temperature is not
appreciably affected - just the temperature of the walls. Some carbs
also do the same thing with electric heat.
Thats the theory. Unfortuanately, I can't help on the practise, as I
have neither a falcon plate or a Model A engine. My Subaru uses the
same technology, however, and I will not need carb heat. (An alternate
air source, however, is still a good idea.)
-Don
>Carb icing doesn't occur in the manifold but in the carburetor itself, at
>the venturi. It is the adiabatic cooling, caused by the drop in pressure at
>the venturi, that causes the moisture in the air to condense out of the
>airflow and freeze, when there is enough moisture in the air. Carburetor
>heat raises the temperature of the incoming air to the point where the ice
>melts.
>
>Having the water-heated plate would still heat the air going into the
>cylinders but would probably not remove any ice formed in the venturi
>upstream of the plate.
>So, having the plate hot all the time would rob you of power and would
>probably not do any good as carb heat.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
<4140D9F0.3010602(at)donsplans.com>
The heated carburetor idea sounds good but there isn't near as much aviaiton
history with liquid cooled engines as aircooled. I guess I'd like to see a
lot of other people successfully use the water-heated plate idea before I'm
willing to risk an off-field landing to prove such a concept. Does anyone
have much AIRCRAFT experience with a heated carburetor plate in lieu of carb
heat air? (Doesn't have to Model A Piets.)
My old datsun 510 used to ice up all the time in rain once the manifold heat
duct fell off, but I'd just coast to the side of the road and in 2-3 minutes
the ice would be gone. I wouldn't want to exercise such a care-free
attitude in an airplane.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Morris" <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carb icing
>
> Howdy.
>
> Just a couple of notes on carb ice - it happens, and it is bad -
> particularly in an aircraft where you really want that power.
> Traditional air cooled aircraft engines use heated induction air to melt
> the ice off. As mentioned, this robs an engine of power due to the fact
> that heated air is less dense than cool air. Heated air, however, this
> isn't the only way. A water cooled engine has other options - and the
> model A is water cooled. Here, we can use water cooling technology
> (although more advanced than a Model A). Hence, the heated plate. It
> works differently than a typical aircraft carb heat. It simply warms
> the carbuerator up to the point that ice cannot form on it and clog it.
> The ice simply makes its way into the engine, melts, and goes the same
> way it would go in a fuel injected engine - it just runs through.
> Power is not appreciably affected, because the air temperature is not
> appreciably affected - just the temperature of the walls. Some carbs
> also do the same thing with electric heat.
>
> Thats the theory. Unfortuanately, I can't help on the practise, as I
> have neither a falcon plate or a Model A engine. My Subaru uses the
> same technology, however, and I will not need carb heat. (An alternate
> air source, however, is still a good idea.)
>
> -Don
>
> >Carb icing doesn't occur in the manifold but in the carburetor itself, at
> >the venturi. It is the adiabatic cooling, caused by the drop in pressure
at
> >the venturi, that causes the moisture in the air to condense out of the
> >airflow and freeze, when there is enough moisture in the air. Carburetor
> >heat raises the temperature of the incoming air to the point where the
ice
> >melts.
> >
>
> >Having the water-heated plate would still heat the air going into the
> >cylinders but would probably not remove any ice formed in the venturi
> >upstream of the plate.
> >So, having the plate hot all the time would rob you of power and would
> >probably not do any good as carb heat.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)speedtrail.net> |
Netscape/7.2 (ax)
| Subject: | Horizontal stab question |
Hey guys, what holds the horizontal stab to the fuselage, just the two
bolts through the 'main beam' through the top longerons and the wires?
It and the vert stab are not glued to each other are they? Do most
people use two blind nuts or regular stop nuts on the underside of the
top longerons for the stab bolts?
Thanks
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
<002201c496a6$be0431e0$a683a218@hot.rr.com>
From my one person experience so take it for what it's worth:
Contrary to all the folk lore, Gas welding is not that hard to learn. I didn't
want to weld my fittings but after a year of asking around the EAA people no
one was interested in helping me weld or even help teach me, wonderfully helpful
people these EAAers.. So I took a beginning class at a craft center here in
town (it wasn't that good of a class) I bought some books and the EAA tape on
welding (It was only OK, thankfully Chris Bobka helped me get it for half price
so it was worth the money. He's good EAA type people only wish he live closer.
Hey Chris want to move to California,? the house next door to me is for
sale, 1020 sqft 3bd 1 1/2 bath "only" $325,000. I'd even let you borrow my tools.)
Anyway, I bought a gas welding setup for $350 bucks and started practicing, after half my 40cf (?) smallish tanks I was making good welds. After the tank was gone I was comfortable with my welding ability. Probably not always perfect but I'm confidant they are good welds. It's not really that hard and I am glad I learned how to weld. Now I want to learn how to do real metal work (I never took metal shop class in high school). A good article to read is called "Zen and the Art of the Weld Puddle", by Budd Davisson. http://www.airbum.com/articles/ArticleZenWelding.html I have recently purchased a smaller welding torch, a Meco from Tinmantech.com, it works better then my Victor knock-off.
Don't be afraid of welding like I was. It's really not that hard to learn how to
weld. Oxy-Acetylene is a very good way to weld both 4130 and Mild steel and
cheaper then TIG. You shouldn't braze 4130 (yes it can be done) but if you are
building to the plans you can braze the mild steel BHP calls for. What you
say? Yes, BHP does not call for 4130 everywhere (he actually calls 1430 cro-molly
I think) and that's ok because he designed it for the mild steel and it would
be plenty strong. I used 4130 because I didn't know better. Oh well, at
least it will be stronger.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Botsford
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
Next month's issue of Sport Aviation will have the first in a series of articles
on welding aircraft alloy steels. It will be very helpful to those interested
in welding parts for aircraft use ( and others as well). The series is authored
by a gentleman named Scott Helzer. He recently conducted an extensive
research program on the methodology of welding for aircraft. I think this will
be very helpful and put to rest a lot of speculation as to what are the best
practices.
Jon Botsford
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Ash
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
I agree with this.
I'm a computer nerd by profession, but I also spent 3 years at two nights a
week leaning welding. I certified on stick, and was working on a MIG cert when
the program came unglued.
All things being equal, gas is easier to learn. There are those who have learned
on MIG without ever learning gas and claim it's easier, but I question whether
their welds would hold up to strength testing and x-ray inspection. With
gas, you've got your heat source in one hand and your filler rod in the other,
which makes it easier to control how much of each you use. On a MIG (GMAW)
welder, both heat and feed rate are controlled by knobs on the face of the welder.
When you pull the trigger, you get what you've set up. If you don't know
how to translate what is happening when you strike a weld, you risk having problems.
A good MIG weld will sound like eggs frying. Personally, if you don't understand
how to gas weld, you've got no business welding with MIG.
When learning to weld, you're usually given a flat plate and you weld in a
straight line. This doesn't require you to reposition your arms or body to complete
the weld. Once you've learned this, then you learn to go around curves,
specifically pipe. I started on the pipe cert (using stick (SMAW)) with 6" diameter
pipe, but decided I had no personal use for it and moved on to MIG. The
largest diameter you've going to see doing a 4130 tube fuselage is going to be
an inch or so. Unless you've got a rotating jig, this is going to require you
to wrap yourself around the joint as you weld it up. And worse yet, it's in clusters,
so you've got all this other stuff in the way, which means you're going
to be crawling through this thing like a jungle gym. My guess is you're going
to have to start and stop a full-circle weld of these diameters at least 3
times (maybe 2, if you're a good contortionist), just to get positioned. Each
time creates the possibility of some weakness, but if you start and stop correctly,
you can control this.
Everything I've read about using TIG (GTAW) on 4130 tubing requires the welder
to go back and normalize the weld area, because the heat is applied to a very
localized area and the surrounding area gets very little. I've seen a bunch
of welds in which the joint held OK, but the tubing broke right next to the
weld because it was too brittle. The only thing I like more about TIG in this
application is that gas can be prone to inclusions (unwanted stuff embedded in
the weld), where it is really minimized with TIG. But I don't think the difference
here is enough to worry about. If I had a TIG rig, I'd personally do my
fuselage with TIG, then go back and normalize with gas. But I don't, so mine will
be gas welded.
I couldn't really justify the $1400 for the Lincoln 175 at Sun 'n Fun the last
2 years, and this is about the lowest I'd go for a good TIG machine. Besides,
a gas rig is cheaper than MIG or TIG, unless you've got acccess to somebody
else's equipment. Although I personally buy my gas bottles, they can also be
leased for a short or long term. Sometimes I'll lease big bottles if I've got
a large job to do. If you're going to buy gas equipment to do your plane, pick
up a Meco, Smith, or Henrob torch body. I wouldn't try it with a full-sized
Victor torch; they're good units for larger stuff, but they're just not agile
enough for what you need here.
Although I don't want to encourage sloppiness, we're all (I think) human here.
One of the plus sides to gas is that it's more forgiving of mistakes; a less-than-perfect
weld in gas will work. In MIG or TIG your odds are a lot worse.
Jim Ash
Please understand what the message is regarding welding. Yes, with the proper
knowledge and equipment, 4130 can be MIG welded, or TIG welded or diffusion
bonded, or even glued into bicycle-type fittings. Done properly, MIG welding
can save hours of work and produce beautiful and very reliable assemblies.
HOWEVER, for the normal homebuilder, who has a competent hobbyist's skill
level, cannot or will not spend the money on a heat-treat oven, and/or won't
be able to subject his work to the rigorous inspection that is performed by most
liability-conscious manufacturers, oxy-acetylene welding provides the safest
and cheapest way to fabricate a strong assembly of 4130.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 5:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
Kit Fox and Avid used MIG welders on their respective 4130 fuselages.
My Avid was wrecked by a commercial pilot in 1993 (stalled out at appx.
200 feet after takeoff) and the airplane was demolished. The pilot was not injured,
but chromoly tubing (4130) was broken in a number of places. However, not
a single MIG weld joint came apart.
...snip...
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAtAhUAhKB6HgYiiZpHWNPUK2RLtfC/jnICFAQElKY+sIp/Oo+60+aQ1hNk2WE6
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
At the Model A forum at Brodhead we learned that the model A engine,
even in the car would ice up while driving across the equator in August.
That is why the intake manifold was bolted directly to the hot exhaust
manifold. It looks to me that the theory is that heat will creep down
the manifold, threw the carb bolts then heating up the cast iron carb
keeping it free of ice. There was another picture in the old newsletter
where a couple of guys made a sheet alum. shroud to cover the vertical
tube of the intake. They said that it eliminated their carb ice problem,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jimmy Courtney <jbciii5656(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Hi-Definition Piet Pics |
Hello Everyone!
Does anyone know where on the web I can find some Piet photographs that are highly
detailed...say 500k bytes file-size or larger? I want to frame some for the
shop so my friends can see what I'll be building this summer. Thanks for any
info!!!!
Jim Courtney,
Florence, Mississippi
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Wood Rudder Bars |
I have been following this discussion with some concern
and amusement. First, the entire airframe is wood and
softwood at that. On a weight for weight basis wood is
stronger than steel. The main problem stems from the
methods of joining wood to itself and other things.
The amount of material around the point of stress, as
in a pivot bolt or cable attachment is the concern here.
as that is where the strength lies. Our ingenious
ancestors were forced to figure out how to deal with
this centuries ago. In ships, wagons, buildings, anywhere
tremendous loads were imposed and structures had to
be light enough to be useable.
The answer lies in the fittings I have shown in the attached
drawings. Metal collars and plates at fitting and bearing
points allow full use of woods strength while allowing
sections to be trimmed of excess material.
Another telling point is that there exists piets and other
planes with wood struts. There are wood struts in the
making as we speak. I haven't seen a lot of concern
expressed regarding the strength and safety in this area.
It all boils down to the specific engineering involved and
there are plenty enough examples of sound, working
wooden wonders out there.
Clif, Hey beertender, how about another bar!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Horizontal stab question |
Hi Rick,
The stabilizer is attached with two bolts through the spar, passing through
the top longerons, and with the small angle fittings at the trailing edge,
which are bolted through the tail post.
The plans call for the spar to be screwed to the longerons with "#7 screws",
which of course are not even available now. I used AN3-27A bolts on mine,
passing through the longerons into self-locking nutplates screwed to the
underside of the longerons.
Jack Phillips, Raleigh NC
Taking NX899JP to the airport tomorrow!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab question
Hey guys, what holds the horizontal stab to the fuselage, just the two
bolts through the 'main beam' through the top longerons and the wires?
It and the vert stab are not glued to each other are they? Do most
people use two blind nuts or regular stop nuts on the underside of the
top longerons for the stab bolts?
Thanks
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hi-Definition Piet Pics |
Jim,
Go to Peter's Pietenpol Page. It's by far the best I've found for large reference pics. http://www.saaa.com/SAAA/Pietenpol/pietenpol.htm . I also use "Altavista" for image searches. Just type in the searchwords pietenpol, aircamper, etc. http://www.altavista.com . There's a nice pic of Michael Cuys Piet (large) out there too...(Mike, you know which one I'm talking about?). I also have a pretty good drawing of mine (attached is a small reduced image of it). If you want a hi-res (1024x768) bmp of it I can send that but don't want to take up the space here. I'd need your email for that.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush |
John,
Well, as it happens one of the ASA captains did give me a 737-200c "Mudhen"
hat out of the blue the other day...(my new favorite hat) Also, one of the
guys I share the hanger with was telling me about when he used to fly a BE18
"up" 5th St. in Anchorage because the plane was always so loaded down. Said
he could see the secretarys in the windows on the second and third floors as
he passed. Of course that stuff never happens nowadays ;-)
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Top & Bottom Struts and Braces |
Am I missing something here? Looking at the plans (1933 short fuselage) the top
and bottom struts and braces don't line up with the fuselage sides struts and
braces. However, every single picture I look at (from various builders) shows
them lining up (i.e.: a box pattern). My fuselage sides "are" correct.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Horizontal stab attach idea |
Hello Rick-- this is how I attached my horizontal stabilizer.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush |
Stacy,
I always love telling people about the one-way runway at Merrill Field
(departures 15, arrivals 33 because of the Native American Hospital just
off the field). I don't know if they still do it or not, but when
departing you usually had to expedite and deviate right of centerline
immediately after takeoff for arriving traffic. It's wild to be staring
at a landing light while on your takeoff roll. For that matter, it's
wild to be staring at a landing light on final. Of course, all this
would happen while 6/24 would be active with nearly a dozen aircraft in
the pattern. Crazy stuff, but it sure teaches one to look outside the
cockpit now and then for traffic. :) When I soloed at Merrill there
were 8 planes in the pattern for 24 and something like a 1500' ceiling
and light rain. When I checked-out in an Arrow there were a half-dozen
SuperCubs and T-crates in the pattern. Good times...
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> stacy@unicom-alaska.com Friday, September 10, 2004 6:53:17 AM >>>
<stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
John,
Well, as it happens one of the ASA captains did give me a 737-200c
"Mudhen"
hat out of the blue the other day...(my new favorite hat) Also, one of
the
guys I share the hanger with was telling me about when he used to fly a
BE18
"up" 5th St. in Anchorage because the plane was always so loaded down.
Said
he could see the secretarys in the windows on the second and third
floors as
he passed. Of course that stuff never happens nowadays ;-)
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and
that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stab question |
Rick,
you can have too many inspection plates! I put an inspection plate on
the side of the fuse under the horz. stab. This way you can reach in and
reach the other end of all the hardware.
The front angle brackets from the vert stab. lined up perfectly for the
bolts to go right thru the longerons. Not quite like the original prints.
And the rear is held the original way. I even added the brass screws,,,they
look good.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)speedtrail.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab question
>
> Hey guys, what holds the horizontal stab to the fuselage, just the two
> bolts through the 'main beam' through the top longerons and the wires?
> It and the vert stab are not glued to each other are they? Do most
> people use two blind nuts or regular stop nuts on the underside of the
> top longerons for the stab bolts?
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick Holland
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tugwilsons(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/03/04 |
Any chance of a copy of the Pietenpol operators manual. Please e-mail to
_tugwilsons(at)aol.com_ (mailto:tugwilsons(at)aol.com)
mmany thanks
t
Tug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hi-Definition Piet Pics |
Also, check out
www.mykitplane.com
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
I've been wondering for some time why we do not see a particular Model-A
auto practice being incorporated in the aircraft conversion. To be
specific, in the car installation, the intake manifold is solidly bolted to
the exhaust manifold. I theorize that this is not done for structural
reasons, but to enhance the thermal contact between the two manifolds to
warm the intake manifold and carburetor. I don't think the warming is just
to prevent the formation of ice in the venturi (although this is bound to
be one result), but also to warm the air/gas mixture inside the intake
manifold in order to prevent recombination and consequent droplet formation
which makes ignition more difficult, decreasing fuel efficiency. The VW
engine has (or had) a similar provision: to accomplish the same purpose, VW
engineers piped some of the exhaust gasses into a tube that was brazed to
the intake manifold tubes to warm them...I'd be interested to hear some
comments on this subject...Carl Vought/Huntsville, AL
wrote :
>
> Howdy.
>
> Just a couple of notes on carb ice - it happens, and it is bad -
> particularly in an aircraft where you really want that power.
> Traditional air cooled aircraft engines use heated induction air to melt
> the ice off. As mentioned, this robs an engine of power due to the fact
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Carmen" <jcar(at)nefcom.net> |
| Subject: | Hi-Definition Piet Pics |
Go to Google click on "images" above the search bar and then search
for pietenpol. It will give you all the piet images and no links just
pictures
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy
Courtney
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hi-Definition Piet Pics
Hello Everyone!
Does anyone know where on the web I can find some Piet photographs that
are highly detailed...say 500k bytes file-size or larger? I want to
frame some for the shop so my friends can see what I'll be building this
summer. Thanks for any info!!!!
Jim Courtney,
Florence, Mississippi
_____
New
storage!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HOEVELMANN <hoevelmann(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I know very little about welding but I get the idea that gas is the best way to
go. I am going to purchase a oxy-acetylene welding and cutting kit and wanted
to know how long do the small tanks that come with the kit last? Also what
is the difference between brazing and welding? Also what is the material you
use to weld? I can use any suggestions I can get.
Thanks, J.J. Hoevelmann
Catdesign wrote:
From my one person experience so take it for what it's worth:
Contrary to all the folk lore, Gas welding is not that hard to learn. I didn't
want to weld my fittings but after a year of asking around the EAA people no
one was interested in helping me weld or even help teach me, wonderfully helpful
people these EAAers.. So I took a beginning class at a craft center here in
town (it wasn't that good of a class) I bought some books and the EAA tape on
welding (It was only OK, thankfully Chris Bobka helped me get it for half price
so it was worth the money. He's good EAA type people only wish he live closer.
Hey Chris want to move to California,? the house next door to me is for
sale, 1020 sqft 3bd 1 1/2 bath "only" $325,000. I'd even let you borrow my tools.)
Anyway, I bought a gas welding setup for $350 bucks and started practicing, after half my 40cf (?) smallish tanks I was making good welds. After the tank was gone I was comfortable with my welding ability. Probably not always perfect but I'm confidant they are good welds. It's not really that hard and I am glad I learned how to weld. Now I want to learn how to do real metal work (I never took metal shop class in high school). A good article to read is called "Zen and the Art of the Weld Puddle", by Budd Davisson. http://www.airbum.com/articles/ArticleZenWelding.html I have recently purchased a smaller welding torch, a Meco from Tinmantech.com, it works better then my Victor knock-off.
Don't be afraid of welding like I was. It's really not that hard to learn how to
weld. Oxy-Acetylene is a very good way to weld both 4130 and Mild steel and
cheaper then TIG. You shouldn't braze 4130 (yes it can be done) but if you are
building to the plans you can braze the mild steel BHP calls for. What you
say? Yes, BHP does not call for 4130 everywhere (he actually calls 1430 cro-molly
I think) and that's ok because he designed it for the mild steel and it would
be plenty strong. I used 4130 because I didn't know better. Oh well, at
least it will be stronger.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Botsford
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
Next month's issue of Sport Aviation will have the first in a series of articles
on welding aircraft alloy steels. It will be very helpful to those interested
in welding parts for aircraft use ( and others as well). The series is authored
by a gentleman named Scott Helzer. He recently conducted an extensive research
program on the methodology of welding for aircraft. I think this will
be very helpful and put to rest a lot of speculation as to what are the best
practices.
Jon Botsford
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Ash
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
I agree with this.
I'm a computer nerd by profession, but I also spent 3 years at two nights a week
leaning welding. I certified on stick, and was working on a MIG cert when the
program came unglued.
All things being equal, gas is easier to learn. There are those who have learned
on MIG without ever learning gas and claim it's easier, but I question whether
their welds would hold up to strength testing and x-ray inspection. With gas,
you've got your heat source in one hand and your filler rod in the other, which
makes it easier to control how much of each you use. On a MIG (GMAW) welder,
both heat and feed rate are controlled by knobs on the face of the welder.
When you pull the trigger, you get what you've set up. If you don't know how
to translate what is happening when you strike a weld, you risk having problems.
A good MIG weld will sound like eggs frying. Personally, if you don't understand
how to gas weld, you've got no business welding with MIG.
When learning to weld, you're usually given a flat plate and you weld in a straight
line. This doesn't require you to reposition your arms or body to complete
the weld. Once you've learned this, then you learn to go around curves, specifically
pipe. I started on the pipe cert (using stick (SMAW)) with 6" diameter
pipe, but decided I had no personal use for it and moved on to MIG. The largest
diameter you've going to see doing a 4130 tube fuselage is going to be an
inch or so. Unless you've got a rotating jig, this is going to require you to
wrap yourself around the joint as you weld it up. And worse yet, it's in clusters,
so you've got all this other stuff in the way, which means you're going to
be crawling through this thing like a jungle gym. My guess is you're going to
have to start and stop a full-circle weld of these diameters at least 3 times
(maybe 2, if you're a good contortionist), just to get positioned. Each time
creates the possibility of some weakness, but if you
start
and stop correctly, you can control this.
Everything I've read about using TIG (GTAW) on 4130 tubing requires the welder
to go back and normalize the weld area, because the heat is applied to a very
localized area and the surrounding area gets very little. I've seen a bunch of
welds in which the joint held OK, but the tubing broke right next to the weld
because it was too brittle. The only thing I like more about TIG in this application
is that gas can be prone to inclusions (unwanted stuff embedded in the
weld), where it is really minimized with TIG. But I don't think the difference
here is enough to worry about. If I had a TIG rig, I'd personally do my fuselage
with TIG, then go back and normalize with gas. But I don't, so mine will
be gas welded.
I couldn't really justify the $1400 for the Lincoln 175 at Sun 'n Fun the last
2 years, and this is about the lowest I'd go for a good TIG machine. Besides,
a gas rig is cheaper than MIG or TIG, unless you've got acccess to somebody else's
equipment. Although I personally buy my gas bottles, they can also be leased
for a short or long term. Sometimes I'll lease big bottles if I've got a large
job to do. If you're going to buy gas equipment to do your plane, pick up
a Meco, Smith, or Henrob torch body. I wouldn't try it with a full-sized Victor
torch; they're good units for larger stuff, but they're just not agile enough
for what you need here.
Although I don't want to encourage sloppiness, we're all (I think) human here.
One of the plus sides to gas is that it's more forgiving of mistakes; a less-than-perfect
weld in gas will work. In MIG or TIG your odds are a lot worse.
Jim Ash
Please understand what the message is regarding welding. Yes, with the proper
knowledge and equipment, 4130 can be MIG welded, or TIG welded or diffusion bonded,
or even glued into bicycle-type fittings. Done properly, MIG welding can
save hours of work and produce beautiful and very reliable assemblies.
HOWEVER, for the normal homebuilder, who has a competent hobbyist's skill level,
cannot or will not spend the money on a heat-treat oven, and/or won't be able
to subject his work to the rigorous inspection that is performed by most liability-conscious
manufacturers, oxy-acetylene welding provides the safest and
cheapest way to fabricate a strong assembly of 4130.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 5:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
Kit Fox and Avid used MIG welders on their respective 4130 fuselages.
My Avid was wrecked by a commercial pilot in 1993 (stalled out at appx. 200
feet after takeoff) and the airplane was demolished. The pilot was not injured,
but chromoly tubing (4130) was broken in a number of places. However, not a
single MIG weld joint came apart.
...snip...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Morris <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com> |
Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
Hi
Welding = strong
Brazing = not so strong.
Don't even think about brazing structural parts, unless it is
specifically called for. Brazing involves a bronze filler rod, and
temperatures high enough to melt the brass and stick it to the metal in
a process known as "adhesion." Welding actually melts the metal of the
two pieces (and often a filler rod of the same material) and intermixes
them, making the two pieces effectively one piece in a process known as
"fusion." Brazing can easily be spotted by the gold colored metal
around the joint.
Also, you can always braze a joint to touch it up, but you can never
weld the joint after you have brazed it. The gentleman who gave me my
fuselage (good friends are wonderful) welded several of the joints and
then brazed them. Then he found his mistake, and gave me the fuselage!
He also said "don't do what I did." Stick with fusion welds.
-Don
HOEVELMANN wrote:
> I know very little about welding but I get the idea that gas is the
> best way to go. I am going to purchase a oxy-acetylene welding and
> cutting kit and wanted to know how long do the small tanks that come
> with the kit last? Also what is the difference between brazing and
> welding? Also what is the material you use to weld? I can use any
> suggestions I can get.
> Thanks, J.J.
> Hoevelmann
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "djv(at)imagedv.com" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stab attach idea |
Did you use any Locktite on that?
DJ
-----Original message-----
From: Michael D Cuy Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:22:05 -0400
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab attach idea
> Hello Rick-- this is how I attached my horizontal stabilizer.
>
> Mike C.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
--- MIME Errors ---
A message with no text/plain section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using plaintext formatting.
NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the
message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus
WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be
informed of the potential problem with their system as soon
as possible.
--- MIME Errors ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jimmy Courtney <jbciii5656(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hi-Definition Piet Pics |
THANKS!!!! This is what I've been looking for!
Jim
Stacy Clark <stacy@unicom-alaska.com> wrote:
Jim,
Go to Peter's Pietenpol Page. It's by far the best I've found for large reference pics. http://www.saaa.com/SAAA/Pietenpol/pietenpol.htm . I also use "Altavista" for image searches. Just type in the searchwords pietenpol, aircamper, etc. http://www.altavista.com . There's a nice pic of Michael Cuys Piet (large) out there too...(Mike, you know which one I'm talking about?). I also have a pretty good drawing of mine (attached is a small reduced image of it). If you want a hi-res (1024x768) bmp of it I can send that but don't want to take up the space here. I'd need your email for that.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=Bethel Belle Reduced.jpg
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Al Latham" <geebeed(at)grm.net> |
Guys,
Maule Aircraft mig's all their 4130 and has for many years, I am not advocating
mig at all just making a statement. I told a welder friend that I wanted to learn
mig, because it looked easy and faster that the gas that I had done for 20
years. He cautioned me on novice mig welding and with that took two pieces of
steel plate sat them together like the roof of a house and ran a fantastic bead...
Slid it off the table and when it hit the floor it became three pieces,
two plates and the bead. I now own a Miller Syncrowave 250. I too would like
to have a mig for fixtures.
One note of interest, we lived about 40 miles from Maule and I have visited them
many times in the 12 years there. I've inspected probably about 40 crash damaged
Maule's that were returned to the factory for repair and never found a weld
failure. When I first learned that they mig'ed I asked their engineer about
normalizing the clusters post welding, he looked at me as if I'd lost my mind
and said they did no such thing.
Al Latham
----- Original Message -----
From: James Dallas
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
David,
No. Most "MIG" wires are not compatible with 4130. They will make a pretty
weld that over time with vibration will crack out. The best way is gas (preferable)
or TIG.
Jim Dallas
----- Original Message -----
From: David Esslinger
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 7:26 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: welding
Is MIG welding acceptable for 4130 Steel?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stab question |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)speedtrail.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab question
==============================
Rick,
When you layout the position of right angle tabs that hold the forward base
part of the vertical fin to the stabilizer, you might want to consider
setting them about 1" further apart than the actual thickness of the fin.
By spreading them apart, you can then use spacers between the fin and tabs
on either side to adjust the offset of the fin during your initial flight
testing.
Hope this is helpfull, sounds like you are moving right along!
Cordially,
John
=================================
>
> Hey guys, what holds the horizontal stab to the fuselage, just the two
> bolts through the 'main beam' through the top longerons and the wires?
> It and the vert stab are not glued to each other are they? Do most
> people use two blind nuts or regular stop nuts on the underside of the
> top longerons for the stab bolts?
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick Holland
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: New bill introduced? |
Have ya'll seen this? I don't know who sent it to me but it looks
ridiculous.
BC (All tied down, buttoned up, and awaiting a visit from IVAN the
Terrible.)
> Subject: Outrageous House Bill
> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 13:40:03 +0000
> Message-Id:
<091120041340.23997.4143002F000ADD2C00005DBD2160280741ADBAABACAABDBBAAB1B4BC
@att.net>
> X-Authenticated-Sender: Q0xPVURCVVNURVJAYXR0Lm5ldA==
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> X-ELNK-AV: 0
>
>
> --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_23997_1094910003_0
>
>
> EAA URGES MEMBERS TO OPPOSE OUTRAGEOUS HOUSE BILL
> THAT WOULD SEVERELY RESTRICT GENERAL AVIATION
>
****************************************************************************
****
> **************
>
>
> The Experimental Aircraft Association is urging its members and all
aviation
> enthusiasts
> to contact their Congressional representatives and strongly oppose a newly
> introduced
> bill by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.)
>
> This bill (H.R. 5035) would require the Department of Homeland Security to
> create a
> method of screening all passengers and property on each flight of all
passenger
> aircraft in the U.S., including general aviation aircraft of all types.
It
> would also prohibit
> non-airline aircraft from flying within 1,500 feet of any structure or
building,
> and prohibit
> non-airline aircraft from flying over any U.S. city with a population of 1
> million or more.
> It would further require that pilots of all aircraft in U.S. airspace
remain in
> contact with the
> Federal Aviation Administration, presumably by radio, regardless of
altitude or
> location.
>
> "The extreme shortsightedness of this bill speaks for itself and
completely
> counters the
> government's own security experts, who have continually stated that
general
> aviation
> does not pose a significant security threat to the U.S.," said Doug
Macnair,
> EAA's Vice
> President of Government Relations. "It's sad that the solemn anniversary
of
> 9/11 terrorist
> attacks is being used to introduce this bill, which does nothing to
enhance
> security and smacks
> of election-year grandstanding."
>
> With 17,000 landing facilities and nearly 200,000 aircraft in the United
States,
> EAA maintains
> that it is inconceivable that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
and FAA
> could ever
> fund and administer such a plan. DHS and the Transportation Security
> Administration have
> repeatedly indicated that general aviation does not warrant such levels of
> security when
> compared to other transportation modes and threats.
>
> "We as a nation need to focus our limited resources on the most serious
> vulnerabilities
> and threats to our security," Macnair added. "TSA has made extensive
studies of
> those
> threats and nowhere has that agency ever suggested such draconian measures
as
> those
> proposed in this bill."
>
> EAA members and others can express their opposition to this bill to their
> congressional
> representatives by finding their contact information at
http://www.house.gov.
> EAA
> immediately contacted members of the House Aviation Subcommittee to state
its
> extreme opposition to this legislation.
>
> For additional information please go to the EAA website at
http://www.eaa.org.
> --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_23997_1094910003_0
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
EAA URGES MEMBERS TO OPPOSE
OUTRAGEOUS HOUSE BILL
> THAT WOULD SEVERELY RESTRICT GENERAL AVIATION
>
****************************************************************************
****
> **************
>
>
> The Experimental Aircraft Association is urging its members and all
aviation
> enthusiasts
> to contact their Congressional representatives and strongly oppose a newly
> introduced
> bill by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.)
>
> This bill (H.R. 5035) would require the Department of Homeland Security to
> create a
> method of screening all passengers and property on each flight of all
passenger
> aircraft in the U.S., including general aviation aircraft of all types.
It
> would also prohibit
> non-airline aircraft from flying within 1,500 feet of any structure or
building,
> and prohibit
> non-airline aircraft from flying over any U.S. city with a population of 1
> million or more.
> It would further require that pilots of all aircraft in U.S. airspace
remain in
> contact with the
> Federal Aviation Administration, presumably by radio, regardless of
altitude or
> location.
>
> "The extreme shortsightedness of this bill speaks for itself and
completely
> counters the
> government's own security experts, who have continually stated that
general
> aviation
> does not pose a significant security threat to the U.S.," said Doug
Macnair,
> EAA's Vice
> President of Government Relations. "It's sad that the solemn anniversary
of
> 9/11 terrorist
> attacks is being used to introduce this bill, which does nothing to
enhance
> security and smacks
> of election-year grandstanding."
>
> With 17,000 landing facilities and nearly 200,000 aircraft in the United
States,
> EAA maintains
> that it is inconceivable that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
and FAA
> could ever
> fund and administer such a plan. DHS and the Transportation Security
> Administration have
> repeatedly indicated that general aviation does not warrant such levels of
> security when
> compared to other transportation modes and threats.
>
> "We as a nation need to focus our limited resources on the most serious
> vulnerabilities
> and threats to our security," Macnair added. "TSA has made extensive
studies of
> those
> threats and nowhere has that agency ever suggested such draconian measures
as
> those
> proposed in this bill."
>
> EAA members and others can express their opposition to this bill to their
> congressional
> representatives by finding their contact information at http://www.house.gov">http://www.house.gov.
> EAA
> immediately contacted members of the House Aviation Subcommittee to state
its
> extreme opposition to this legislation.
>
> For additional information please go to the EAA website at http://www.eaa.org">http://www.eaa.org.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_23997_1094910003_0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael McCarty" <mmccarty(at)zianet.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: New bill introduced? |
Rep. Weiner is a relatively young democrat from New York City who is trying to
make a name for himself. I remember him from a few years back when he
cheered the grounding of the Concorde jets. He felt that New Yorkers should
have been glad to get rid of those unsafe, noisy monstrosities.
This is a newly introduced bill, less than a week old, with no co-sponsors and
hasn't been talked at the Aviation Subcomittee yet. AOPA and EAA and others
are all over this. I wouldn't worry too much yet.
-Mac
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: **SPAM: Pietenpol-List: Fw: New bill introduced?
>
> Have ya'll seen this? I don't know who sent it to me but it looks
> ridiculous.
>>
>> The Experimental Aircraft Association is urging its members and all
> aviation
>> enthusiasts
>> to contact their Congressional representatives and strongly oppose a newly
>> introduced
>> bill by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.)
>>
>> This bill (H.R. 5035) would require the Department of Homeland Security to
>> create a
>> method of screening all passengers and property on each flight of all
> passenger
>> aircraft in the U.S., including general aviation aircraft of all types.
> It
>> would also prohibit
>> non-airline aircraft from flying within 1,500 feet of any structure or
> building,
>> and prohibit
>> non-airline aircraft from flying over any U.S. city with a population of 1
>> million or more.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Franck <franck(at)geneseo.net> |
I'm contemplating the purchase of the Meco Midget welding torch. For those
of you who have actual experience using this product, what are your
re-actions and recommendations concerning this product? What size welding
tips and what other accessories should the end user consider? How about a
evaluation of the special welding lenses offered by
http://www.tinmantech.com/html/tm2000.html? Thanks, Ron Franck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | accurate wood list |
I had offered a copy of my wood list from AS&S, from 6 years ago, to the group
and a few took me up on it.
Just a thought,,,,,,,Since my order was correct (long fuselage, three piece wing)
Maybe AS&S tried to reinvent the wheel and messed up the list along the way.
What if someone who is thinking of ordering a spruce "kit", request a free Quote,
then compare it line for line with my list.
I remember that when I got my order, nothing was marked,cause there is no way they
CAN mark it. Took me awhile to sort it all out, and find out what went where..
Might be a case where the wrong longer pieces were cut up with waste, Then
later on , all of a sudden you run out of the right pieces.
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Pietenpol on Ebay |
I just listed N1195P on Ebay. This is a NO RESERVE auction and the bids start
at $25.00. (That's correct, 25 BUCKS IS THE STARTING PRICE.)
I can send a detailed picture CD via US PRIORITY MAIL or FEDERAL EXPRESS
OVERNIGHT for a fee. I am not able to send all my pictures on the Internet because
of a VERY slow dialup connection.
Please see my auction for details on how to order a CD, showing somewhere
around 80 pictures as well as copies of the original e-mails from the chap who
built and sold this airplane to me. The CD will only set you back a few dollars,
or if you want it by Federal Express, a few bucks more.
Thanks,
Sterling Brooks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol on Ebay |
Forgot one thing... The item number on Ebay for N1195P is 2489638603.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: accurate wood list |
Walt,
I think what happened is somewhere along the line AS&S was given a list by a builder
and he/she called that list (meaning the person who supplied it) a "Modernized
Pietenpol." I suspect that it is actually the material list for a GN-1
Aircamper renamed. I do know that AS&S has a GN-1 spruce kit as well. My guess
would be the lists are identical if they were to compare them side by side.
I am now working directly with them to resolve the wood issue in my case.
Over the next few weeks/months as I build I can promise you that the community
will have a correct and complete spruce kit for the "Improved Pietenpol Air Camper
(1933)" and the "3-pc wing" from AS&S. If someone else could supply a "correct"
material list for the "1-pc wing" to them all would once again be well
with the world :-)
On another note to ALL: Please look at my post "Top & Bottom Struts and Braces."
I really need an answer to that one guys...Thanks.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: accurate wood list |
I received the Piet wood kit from AS about 6 months ago (cost was $802 I
think). This was for the 3 piece wing and included everything but capstrip
and plywood. Wood was very good quality except I found a knot in one
longeron piece and they got me a new one in just 3 days (suprized the hell
out of me). I have attached a .gif of with contents of that wood kit.
Rick Holland
>
>Walt,
>
>I think what happened is somewhere along the line AS&S was given a list by
>a builder and he/she called that list (meaning the person who supplied it)
>a "Modernized Pietenpol." I suspect that it is actually the material list
>for a GN-1 Aircamper renamed. I do know that AS&S has a GN-1 spruce kit as
>well. My guess would be the lists are identical if they were to compare
>them side by side. I am now working directly with them to resolve the wood
>issue in my case. Over the next few weeks/months as I build I can promise
>you that the community will have a correct and complete spruce kit for the
>"Improved Pietenpol Air Camper (1933)" and the "3-pc wing" from AS&S. If
>someone else could supply a "correct" material list for the "1-pc wing" to
>them all would once again be well with the world :-)
>
>On another note to ALL: Please look at my post "Top & Bottom Struts and
>Braces." I really need an answer to that one guys...Thanks.
>
>Stacy
>
>There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and
>that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
I have a question that deviates slightly from the main topic (sorry)
concerning moving the rudder bar to the front cockpit and connecting the
rear petals to the front rudder bar using solid tubing as has been
discussed on this group. This way the front bar takes up the force from
both rear petals being pressed. Question is what are the negatives to
this arrangement? Must be some problem with it since it seems few people
have done it.
Thanks
Rick Holland
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>There is nothing wrong (engineering wise, I'm not going to the
>"originality"
>place again) with a wood rudder bar. I find the feel better than tubes
>through soft sole shoes. The max force is limited by the shear or bending
>strength (which ever is lower) of the pivot pin that attaches the bar
>(unless the hard point the pivot goes through in the fuselage is weaker).
>Remember, when you are being chased by a lion, you don't need to be faster
>than the lion. You only need to be faster than the guy next to you. Just
>make sure the bar is stronger than the weakest part that the bar load
>passes
>through. Once you know the strength of the pivot pin, just hang the bar
>from a piece of rod stock or a bolt of the same material in double shear
>(only half the load is in the pin that way) and hang half the pivot
>strength
>load from each end of the bar. If it doesn't fail, it's OK.
>Hank J
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
You lost me there Rick. If you are attaching the front and rear bars with
only one tube NONE of the forces from pressing both sides of the aft bar at
once would be transmitted to the front bar. Same goes for pressing both
sides of the front bar at once. Only the differential pressure would pass
to the other bar.
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
>
> I have a question that deviates slightly from the main topic (sorry)
> concerning moving the rudder bar to the front cockpit and connecting the
> rear petals to the front rudder bar using solid tubing as has been
> discussed on this group. This way the front bar takes up the force from
> both rear petals being pressed. Question is what are the negatives to
> this arrangement? Must be some problem with it since it seems few people
> have done it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick Holland
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >
> >There is nothing wrong (engineering wise, I'm not going to the
> >"originality"
> >place again) with a wood rudder bar. I find the feel better than tubes
> >through soft sole shoes. The max force is limited by the shear or
bending
> >strength (which ever is lower) of the pivot pin that attaches the bar
> >(unless the hard point the pivot goes through in the fuselage is weaker).
> >Remember, when you are being chased by a lion, you don't need to be
faster
> >than the lion. You only need to be faster than the guy next to you.
Just
> >make sure the bar is stronger than the weakest part that the bar load
> >passes
> >through. Once you know the strength of the pivot pin, just hang the bar
> >from a piece of rod stock or a bolt of the same material in double shear
> >(only half the load is in the pin that way) and hang half the pivot
> >strength
> >load from each end of the bar. If it doesn't fail, it's OK.
> >Hank J
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Top & Bottom Struts |
In a message dated 9/12/04 2:02:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
stacy@unicom-alaska.com writes:
<< On another note to ALL: Please look at my post "Top & Bottom Struts and
Braces." I really need an answer to that one guys...Thanks. >>
Stacy,
I didn't see this post. Did I miss it ?
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
In a message dated 9/12/04 6:29:14 PM Central Daylight Time,
at7000ft(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< I have a question that deviates slightly from the main topic (sorry)
concerning moving the rudder bar to the front cockpit and connecting the
rear petals to the front rudder bar using solid tubing as has been
discussed on this group. This way the front bar takes up the force from
both rear petals being pressed. Question is what are the negatives to
this arrangement? Must be some problem with it since it seems few people
have done it.
Thanks >>
Rick,
Problems are quite a few in this set up. If one of the joints fail, you will
be applying a LOT of pressure to the rudder horn, leading to failure of
rudder control. Another reason is that you can't remove the controls in the
front, if you are flying solo, and need the space for baggage. There is no doubt
that Bernard Pietenpol considered this set up, and niched the idea. If toe
brakes are your thinking, well I have heel brakes, and they are more than
adequate, and easy enough to get used to. There are Many places that you can
personalize your homebuilt, but changing the original control set up, including
material, is NOT one of them. Build it to the plans, and it will work just fine.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Top & Bottom Struts |
Subject: Top & Bottom Struts and Braces
From: Stacy Clark (stacy@unicom-alaska.com)
Date: Fri Sep 10 - 5:16 AM
Am I missing something here? Looking at the plans (1933 short fuselage) the
top
and bottom struts and braces don't line up with the fuselage sides struts
and
braces. However, every single picture I look at (from various builders)
shows
them lining up (i.e.: a box pattern). My fuselage sides "are" correct.
Stacy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: accurate wood list |
Rick,
Thanks, I've forwarded your list to AS&S. If this didn't happen to me
(wrong kit), it would almost be funny. I have no doubt AS&S will do the
right thing here.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Flying adventure |
I hope you don't mind my letting off a little "steam" after my little
adventure of the past two days. I am still revved up and need to tell it to
someone and you are the only ones who would understand.
I may not be getting much done on my Piet project, but I am trying to have
fun. I just helped ferry a Stearman (with a wooden stick) from Nashua NH to
Lakeland FL. We really battled self doubts last Wednesday and Thursday
morning before getting on a plane to fly north. We had the remnants of
Frances still affecting the NE and Ivan aiming at us on Sunday PM in
Florida. I looked like getting all the way from there to here might not be
possible. We finally said, let's go for it.
We landed in Boston Thursday evening and it wasn't raining - that isn't what
the weather people had said. We got up Friday morning and the sun was
out - that isn't what the weather people had said was supposed to happen.
We lifted of at 10 AM and headed west to fly over the Ole Rhinebeck Airdrome
and then on to Poukeepsie. From there we flew down the Hudson at 1000'. We
could see the city outline from 40 miles out. We dropped down to 500' in
the VFR corridor. We were the only aircraft in it. The Hudson river was
ours for the entire length of NY City. After circling the Statute of
Liberty we headed
WSW and threaded between Camp David and Washington ADIZ to Front Royal. We
then
headed south down the Shenandoah Valley, landing at dusk at Roanoke VA.
Woke up to sunshine and were airborne at 8 AM and headed south. Things went
fine until we got to Georgia and their typical summer VFR that is similar to
flying through milk. We kept a close lookout for towers and made it
through. Florida was typical scattered afternoon convection. Just fly
around (and behind) it and keep moving on. The weather gods were good. We
made over 100 kts ground speed most of the second day. I had flight planned
for 85 MPH with a flying time of 16 hours.
We set down at Lakeland at 5:30 PM after 7 gas stops and 14:45 flying time.
I didn't keep track of the fuel usage or cost. Don't want to know. I want
to savor this flight until I do my next one like it in my Piet. For a trip
we didn't think would happen because of adverse weather, it turned out to be
the most pleasant flying X/C we either have flown. The Stearman was being
donated
to Sun n Fun. When we pushed it into the hangar I saw Allen Wise's Piet
(see there is some Piet connection to this story) stashed in there for
protection from the hurricane. It is in fine shape.
And Ivan hasn't shown up yet either. Spent a beautiful afternoon shooting
landings in my Cessna 140A helping a fellow tail dragger pilot knock off a
little rust.
Thanks for giving me a chance to share this experience.
Ted Brousseau
Naples, FL
Going to start building like crazy so that I can fly with Bert, Corky, John,
Randy, Don and any one else in a formation of "Southern Wooden Overcast" to
Brodhead next
year.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Top & Bottom Struts |
In a message dated 9/12/04 9:35:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
stacy@unicom-alaska.com writes:
<< Am I missing something here? Looking at the plans (1933 short fuselage)
the
top
and bottom struts and braces don't line up with the fuselage sides struts
and
braces. However, every single picture I look at (from various builders)
shows
them lining up (i.e.: a box pattern). My fuselage sides "are" correct. >>
Stacy,
I'm not sure what you are asking, but I think you are concerned that the
fuselage attach points for the cabane struts, are aft of perpendicular, from the
fuselage attach points for the lift struts. This is correct. It shows this
clearly at the top of the page, on Drawing No. 1
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Welding torch |
Ron:
I used the special Tinmantech lens for Gas welding aluminum and it works
beautifully. Worth every penny ($100) for Aluminum, but not necessary for
4130 Chrome Molly.
Mike L.
Franck wrote:
>
> I'm contemplating the purchase of the Meco Midget welding torch. For those
> of you who have actual experience using this product, what are your
> re-actions and recommendations concerning this product? What size welding
> tips and what other accessories should the end user consider? How about a
> evaluation of the special welding lenses offered by
> http://www.tinmantech.com/html/tm2000.html? Thanks, Ron Franck
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Top & Bottom Struts |
Chuck,
No, I'm speaking of the literal top and bottom fuselage struts and braces
(diagonals) connecting the two sides of the fuselage together. The top and
bottom "bridge trusses," if you will. In pics that I see the top & bottom
struts/braces meet at the points that the side's struts and braces meet,
making (if you were looking at it on the inside from front to back) squares
all the way down with the diagonals running on all sides between the
squares. On the plans however it appears the top and bottom struts and
braces have nothing to do with where the side's struts and braces glue to
the longerons. Clear as mud now? :-)
Stacy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stab attach idea |
>Did you use any Locktite on that?
>
>DJ
DJ-- I forget. I know I dipped the hardware (all of my hardware that
went thru wood) in varnish during the final assy., but don't recall using
locktite.
Mike (good idea tho)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Front rudder bar |
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
"concerning moving the rudder bar to the front cockpit and connecting the
rear pedals to the front rudder bar using solid tubing as has been
discussed on this group"
Rick,
Others have done this successfully, hopefully they will chime in. There
has been a lot said about doing things the way Bernard did
them......well......on the "Last Original" built by Bernard there is no
rudder bar. So, I guess sometimes even Bernard didn't follow the plans.
That plane is owned by Bill Knight of Brodhead.
Some have even suggested putting a "rudder bar" behind the rear seat--I
haven't thought that one through.
Dick Hartwig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Front rudder bar |
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
"concerning moving the rudder bar to the front cockpit and connecting the
rear pedals to the front rudder bar using solid tubing as has been
discussed on this group"
Rick,
Others have done this successfully, hopefully they will chime in. There
has been a lot said about doing things the way Bernard did
them......well......on the "Last Original" built by Bernard there is no
rudder bar. So, I guess sometimes even Bernard didn't follow the plans.
That plane is owned by Bill Knight of Brodhead.
Some have even suggested putting a "rudder bar" behind the rear seat--I
haven't thought that one through.
Dick Hartwig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: accurate wood list |
AS should recognize the wood kit list, I got it from them in the first
place.
>Rick,
>
>Thanks, I've forwarded your list to AS&S. If this didn't happen to me
>(wrong kit), it would almost be funny. I have no doubt AS&S will do the
>right thing here.
>
>Stacy
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Top & Bottom Struts |
In a message dated 9/13/04 1:25:06 AM Central Daylight Time,
stacy@unicom-alaska.com writes:
<< Chuck,
No, I'm speaking of the literal top and bottom fuselage struts and braces
(diagonals) connecting the two sides of the fuselage together. The top and
bottom "bridge trusses," if you will. In pics that I see the top & bottom
struts/braces meet at the points that the side's struts and braces meet,
making (if you were looking at it on the inside from front to back) squares
all the way down with the diagonals running on all sides between the
squares. On the plans however it appears the top and bottom struts and
braces have nothing to do with where the side's struts and braces glue to
the longerons. Clear as mud now? :-) >>
Stacy,
I think once you begin to assemble the fuselage sides together, the
method will become clear. Keep in mind the lower cabane strut metal fittings,
attach to the top of the #3 and #5 vertical struts. Therefore, the horizontal
struts cannot intersect this point...it must be offset a little, to allow the
metal fittings to capture the sides of the #3 and #5 vertical struts. Plywood
carries the load through this type joint. Be sure you drill straight, accurate
holes at these attach points.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Table Saw Safety |
I just thought I'd kick this out there to everyone making all that sawdust.
Last Thursday, a buddy of mine cut off the tip of his left thumb, just below
the thumb nail, with a Table Saw. Those table saws have lopped off more digits
than any other power tool. Just stay out of that Red Zone with your fingers
!!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Table Saw Safety |
I used to own a carbide sales and service business, and I got into a lot of wood
shops. whenever I saw someone without their fingers I asked how it happened,
9 times out of 10 it was because they reached around behind the blade to pull
a piece thru the blade. whenever I saw anybody doing that I told them that it
was just a matter of time before they would loose some fingers. use those push
sticks to PUSH stuff thru!!! and my favorite is a long flat edge of a board
with a notch at the end to both hold the piece down and push it thru. and when
in doubt use the featherboards to hold your work. and clamp small pieces to
large pieces to cut.
Del
Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
I just thought I'd kick this out there to everyone making all that sawdust.
Last Thursday, a buddy of mine cut off the tip of his left thumb, just below
the thumb nail, with a Table Saw. Those table saws have lopped off more digits
than any other power tool. Just stay out of that Red Zone with your fingers
!!
Chuck G.
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Table Saw Safety |
yes... be careful! The word I first think of when I think of table saws
and other dangerous power equipment is.... RESPECT!
You absolutley must respect equipment like that. Treat it like a breathing,
living being that is capable of eating you for lunch. The minute you lose
respect for the machine is the exact minute you lose a body part.
My grandfather lost 4 fingers over the course of 50 years. His first
accident happened when he was in his 30's. Then 3 yrs ago my dad got
whacked pretty good while working on his Celebrity.... he was 51 yrs old.
so.... I figure by reason of simple math and genetics, I am good to go
until I am about 70 or so before I get bit.... hehehe.... but of course I
still respect the saw...... and the drill press, lathe, router, yada yada
yada.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Table Saw Safety
>
> I just thought I'd kick this out there to everyone making all that
sawdust.
> Last Thursday, a buddy of mine cut off the tip of his left thumb, just
below
> the thumb nail, with a Table Saw. Those table saws have lopped off more
digits
> than any other power tool. Just stay out of that Red Zone with your
fingers
> !!
>
> Chuck G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | step a side with your push stick too |
Gosh, I don't think I ever got relaxed with using the table saw, and I'm
glad of that. In addition to what
Farmer Del M. said about using push sticks, (I used two of them---one to
push and the other to keep the material
against the fence) I would stay off to one side or the other slightly
rather than standing directly behind the blade path------
that is after a piece of wood kicked back and left a huge black and blue
mark just above my belt line.
I got the saw for free---a used Craftsman, but spent $60 bucks on a carbide
tipped blade that still cuts like butter.
The best monies I ever spent were on that blade and Tony's books.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Shop safety / was Table Saw Safety |
The scary tools for me are those that are a little less obvious; bench grinders
and hydraulic presses come to mind. These tools are considered relatively benign,
but a cracked grinding wheel can suddenly send large chunks of material flying
somewhere in a hurry. And I was pressing apart a bearing in my press that,
unbeknownst to me, wasn't pressed together. I had a good lean going on the
machine when the outer race broke (with a bang) and bearings shot across my garage
like buckshot. Fortunately, my press has bad aim and I walked away unscathed.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
From: DJ Vegh <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Table Saw Safety
yes... be careful! The word I first think of when I think of table saws
and other dangerous power equipment is.... RESPECT!
You absolutley must respect equipment like that. Treat it like a breathing,
living being that is capable of eating you for lunch. The minute you lose
respect for the machine is the exact minute you lose a body part.
...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Shop safety / was Table Saw Safety |
When I was a young TV news report many years ago, I covered a story of a poor
fellow who was killed when the tank on his air compressor blew up. I was
reminded of my tour of duty in Vietnam. Shrapnel went everywhere and this guy
suffered a painful, bloody death. When I arrived at the scene, I thought Charlie
had fired a mortar into this guys shop. The moral of this tragic story is to
DRAIN your air tank every day and don't let water accumulate in the tank. (For
that matter, don't let water accumulate in your Air Camper either, or you'll
end up with a rotted out fuselage. Either way, rotted fuselage or rusted tank
is a recipe for disaster.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Table Saw Safety |
Yeah, one of the most bizzare accidents that I heard of when it comes to
common tools that we can use every day is,,,If you read the dangers on the
package of one of those long drill bits ( about 18" or so) ""Don't use in a
drill press"". The bit isn't strong enough to stay straight at high speed.
It instantly bends to become a big propellor right about at throat level.
Wouldn't know what hit you.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Table Saw Safety
>
> yes... be careful! The word I first think of when I think of table
saws
> and other dangerous power equipment is.... RESPECT!
>
> You absolutley must respect equipment like that. Treat it like a
breathing,
> living being that is capable of eating you for lunch. The minute you lose
> respect for the machine is the exact minute you lose a body part.
>
> My grandfather lost 4 fingers over the course of 50 years. His first
> accident happened when he was in his 30's. Then 3 yrs ago my dad got
> whacked pretty good while working on his Celebrity.... he was 51 yrs old.
>
> so.... I figure by reason of simple math and genetics, I am good to go
> until I am about 70 or so before I get bit.... hehehe.... but of course I
> still respect the saw...... and the drill press, lathe, router, yada yada
> yada.
>
> DJ
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 8:41 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Table Saw Safety
>
>
> >
> > I just thought I'd kick this out there to everyone making all that
> sawdust.
> > Last Thursday, a buddy of mine cut off the tip of his left thumb, just
> below
> > the thumb nail, with a Table Saw. Those table saws have lopped off more
> digits
> > than any other power tool. Just stay out of that Red Zone with your
> fingers
> > !!
> >
> > Chuck G.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
<000e01c499cb$bf8aec20$2cc5fea9@home>
| Subject: | Re: Table Saw Safety - now drill press |
the one thing that scares me is watching someone drilling through a piece of
steel without clamping the piece... I cringe when I see the piece being
drilled is not clamped but rather being held by hand.
Once that bit gets near the end of the piece you all know what happens....
It took me once to find that out the hard way... a pretty nasty gash as a
.063" piece of 4130 strap swung around and sliced me open like a knife.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Table Saw Safety
>
> Yeah, one of the most bizzare accidents that I heard of when it comes to
> common tools that we can use every day is,,,If you read the dangers on the
> package of one of those long drill bits ( about 18" or so) ""Don't use in
a
> drill press"". The bit isn't strong enough to stay straight at high
speed.
> It instantly bends to become a big propellor right about at throat level.
> Wouldn't know what hit you.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 12:25 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Table Saw Safety
>
>
> >
> > yes... be careful! The word I first think of when I think of table
> saws
> > and other dangerous power equipment is.... RESPECT!
> >
> > You absolutley must respect equipment like that. Treat it like a
> breathing,
> > living being that is capable of eating you for lunch. The minute you
lose
> > respect for the machine is the exact minute you lose a body part.
> >
> > My grandfather lost 4 fingers over the course of 50 years. His first
> > accident happened when he was in his 30's. Then 3 yrs ago my dad got
> > whacked pretty good while working on his Celebrity.... he was 51 yrs
old.
> >
> > so.... I figure by reason of simple math and genetics, I am good to go
> > until I am about 70 or so before I get bit.... hehehe.... but of course
I
> > still respect the saw...... and the drill press, lathe, router, yada
yada
> > yada.
> >
> > DJ
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 8:41 AM
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Table Saw Safety
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I just thought I'd kick this out there to everyone making all that
> > sawdust.
> > > Last Thursday, a buddy of mine cut off the tip of his left thumb, just
> > below
> > > the thumb nail, with a Table Saw. Those table saws have lopped off
more
> > digits
> > > than any other power tool. Just stay out of that Red Zone with your
> > fingers
> > > !!
> > >
> > > Chuck G.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | America Tour part 1 |
All right, I'm gong to start posting some stories about my Big Adventure.
It seemed like everyone I talked with, was a bit envious of this little
cross country flight. Life should be Fun and Adventurous...right ?? This trip
certainly fit the bill.
One of my primary objectives, was that I will NEVER be in a hurry, and
always try to be well rested. This will be a series of posts, starting with the
first leg, but I should start out with the Preparation:
I did a LOT of work on my plane, in the months prior to departure. I
built spring struts to replace the bunji struts. That was lots of fit & trim
work (the Brits call it 'Fit and Fiddle'), as I had to build them to work with
the existing fittings. I also built four new EL brackets on the inside, where
the gear lug / lift strut attach points are. I made the two front ones a
little long, bent them inboard, and drilled 1/4" holes to use as hard points, for
securing baggage. I also installed fittings on the lower engine mounts, to
secure cargo. This type rework gave me the chance to re-rig the wing, to take
care of a little bit of 'Left Wing Heavy'. I built a battery box out of
fiberglass / polyester resin, and added a small sealed lead acid battery to the
firewall. It was about $20 @ Interstate Battery. The main reason for the battery
was to provide reliable voltage to the GPS. I'm sold on the GPS. now that it
is a much more reliable...it was flawless. Last years trip to Brodhead, with
the 3 little AA batteries, that thing crapped out on me 3 times in flight !!
The other items that the battery was installed for, is the handheld com radio,
and the Smoke System. I wasn't able to get the plug from Radio Shack to work
with the handheld, so it operated with it's self contained battery pack. Now
that I have a battery, I have to keep it charged, so I came up with the idea
of a Solar Charger. I found a solar trickle charger at Harbor Freight for
about $20, but it had a red plastic frame around it. I removed the plastic
housing, to reveal a piece of glass that the photovolactic cells were in. I used
a
double layer of electric tape around the periphery of the glass, and fabric
cloth and poly tac, and patched it to the top aft edge of the wing, to the left
side of the cockpit. With the solar cell secure, I ran the wire down across
the bottom of the wing, secured with color coded 90 mph duct tape. I tapped it
into the wire harness, behind the instrument panel. To monitor voltage, I
bought a little 12v voltage tester at Harbor Freight, for $3. It has a row of
five LED's, that show line voltage. The more of them that are lit, the more
available voltage. I wired the monitor into the harness. The battery voltage
goes directly to a 4 amp breaker, mounted to the lower right side of the panel,
before it is tapped into the harness. With the breaker pulled, I can see how
much the sun provides, and when I push in the breaker, the battery voltage is
added. The Solar Cell was not enough to keep up with the demand of the smoke
pump motor, but it could easily keep up with the GPS. However, during the
entire 26 day trip, I only had to charge the 12v battery one time.
With the airframe, engine, B.F.R. and class 3 medical complete, it comes
time to pack the plane. I packed, unpacked, repacked the plane 4 or 5 times,
rearranging stuff, trying make it fit better, and off loading some more stuff
each time. The 'Chair in a Bag' had to stay. Big heavy leather motorcycle
jacket had to stay. Extra blue jeans, and some shirts had to stay. The
question is - What should be packed for a month long journey, and What could be
left
behind? Weight is the crucial factor. The final weight of my cargo was 65
lbs. I couldn't have carried that much cargo, if I had the controls in the
front pit.
Packed and ready to go, I started the engine, climbed in, and realized
I'm finally on the way !! After a little prayer for a safe journey, and a big
"YEEE HAAAWWW, I took off and pointed the nose to the South. There were 3 guys
that watched me depart, so I puffed 'em some big dashed lines in the sky !!
It was late afternoon, and I could only make one leg, but I'm on the way. OK,
here it is, the middle of July, and the winds are out of the North. The
winds are almost Never out of the North this time of year. I have a tailwind !!
And the tailwind continued for the two days it took to get to Tick Hill Field.
I was seeing groundspeeds well over 80 mph !! Zero Charlie Gulf has never
seen sustained speeds over the terrain like this. I patted her on the
longeron, and said "Now don't you get too spoiled on speed !!" The evening hours
are
the very best time of day to fly. Clear skies, thermals settle down, thumb
and finger stick control, the noise muffled down to a tolerable rate, all God's
creation slipping beneath the wings, I found the 'Zone'. All things are right
in the world.
7/17/04 Cook (K50) - Cushing Ok. (CUH)
115 mi. 80 mph 1.4 hrs.
5:35 to 7:00 126.69 tach hrs.
On approach to Cushing, I heard the radio call that jumpers were in the air.
OK, heads up...we don't want to splat any jumpers on the windshield !! We
landed about an hour before dusk, fueled up, paid cash, and pitched the tent.
I
was invited to the jumpers hanger for some beer & pizza, and to watch the
video's from the camera's that they wear on their head. They get some awesome
shots of what they do in free fall. Three of them made a night jump, with the
required strobe light attached to their ankle. They pointed some car
headlights in the landing area, and two of them landed in the lighted area. Another
one landed outside the lighted area, and came down with a loud 'UMPH" !! He was
all right. In one sense it boggles my mind, why someone would jump out of a
perfectly good airplane, at 9,000 feet, into complete blackness. On the other
hand, it's all about the Adventure !! OK, I can understand that. Friendly
bunch, these skydivers are. The few women are fit and trim, and wear tight
spandex clothes !! Their attire held few secrets !! They were all interested in
my story, too. If one of them would have chose to go with me, I would have
gladly left all 65 lbs of baggage behind !!
Oklahoma Skydiving Center www.skydiveok.com
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
The Adventure Begins !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Top & Bottom Struts |
Stacy,
Yes, I think you're missing something here.
From the back seat aft, the cross braces holding the two sides together (or
is that apart?) should line up with the verticals in the fuselage sides.
Try this, look at the "Layout for the Side of Fuselage" drawing near the top
of sheet 1. Look for the verticals labeled 7 (at the rear seat back) 9, 11,
13. Now look at the "Inside Constructional View of Fuselage" drawing near
the middle of the sheet, you will see a dimension of 28". This dimension is
from the front edge of the upper 3/4" x 3/4" cross strut support at the top
of the back seat to the next cross brace. Now, if you look back at the
"Layout for the Side of Fuselage" drawing you will see the dimension 27-1/4"
for the distance between verticals 7 and 9 . But wait, this 27-1/4" is from
the back edge of 7, so if you add the " thickness to 27-1/4" you get the
28" shown on the "Inside Constructional View of Fuselage" drawing. From
there on back, the dimensions are the same on both drawings so they should
line up with the verticals too. The bottom cross braces are the same, as
the top.
I should add that the aft Ash cross member does not line up with the cluster
formed by members 4, 5, and 6. It's slightly ahead of it. However, the
front Ash cross member does line up with the cluster formed by verticals 2
and 3.
Chris Tracy.
Sacramento, Ca
<stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
>
> Subject: Top & Bottom Struts and Braces
> From: Stacy Clark (stacy@unicom-alaska.com)
> Date: Fri Sep 10 - 5:16 AM
>
> Am I missing something here? Looking at the plans (1933 short fuselage)
the
> top
> and bottom struts and braces don't line up with the fuselage sides struts
> and
> braces. However, every single picture I look at (from various builders)
> shows
> them lining up (i.e.: a box pattern). My fuselage sides "are" correct.
>
> Stacy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Wooden control stick |
I have a variation of the wooden control stick debate. Years ago I had a
passenger board at a charity event and I was worried about his motivations.
It went well, but I immediately sawed of the front stick and inserted a
broom stick so I could remove the front stick easily. This came in handy
when filling the front passenger compartment full of gear on long X-C.
Last year a biplane crashed because they believe a passenger in the front
collapsed and forced the stick forward. I decided the best solution would
be to make the same change I had already made except use balsa instead.
This way I could leave in the stick for the passenger to use, but if he/she
tried to overpower me, I would win because the front stick would break away.
Just a thought.
Ted Brousseau
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Elevator control cables |
I detect that the front cables tighten and loosen at different rates between
full back and full forward on the control stick. I wonder if anyone has
offset the cable attachpoints on the stick to account for this and keep the
tension even?
Ted Brousseau
Naples, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
No one really asked but this was one of my big unknowns going into this
project
so I figure I would put this out there so others can get an idea what I
decided to use for welding the fittings.
Welding. I'm NOT A PRO OR CERTIFIED WELDER
I use a Victor (clone) type welding torch ($375 with kart and tanks). It's
been fine for most of things I have welded. I purchased 40cf Oxygen and
Acetylene tanks that last me
about 6 months to a year depending on the amount of practice welding and
fixing stuff for the neighbors. I would not recommend smaller tanks. As for
tips, I have one each of the 000, 00, 0 tips ($20 each) and they have worked
out fine. I used the larger tip to heat metal for bending and
squishing but I really should get a rose-bud tip for this purpose. The
smaller 000 worked great on the thin metal but mostly I use the 00 size. I
have trouble welding 1/4" plate to 1/4" plate with the tips I have.
I use mild steel rods as these are recommended for 4130. I do not remove
the brass coating on the rod but I think I will in the future as I have read
it might be bad . I read that your a not supposed to use 4130 filler rod
unless you are post heating welds (Finch welding book) (post heating should
not be confused with stress relieving with the torch). I recently picked
up some ER70S TIG rod, as I have seen this discussed as a good gas rod as
well as TIG rod.
I recently purchased a Meco Midget torch body ($115?) and a full set of tips
(only 8 bucks
each). I have not used it yet but it's tinny and cute. I saw it
demonstrated at an air show and it seemed to work fine. Nice and small and
easy to hold. I have trouble with holding the Victor in the right place at
times. One thing to watch out for with this torch is my Victor has flash
back arrestors built into the torch body but the Meco Midget doesn't. So I
had to buy separate flash
back arrestors (another 40 bucks). Also the hoses are smaller so I had to
get reduces (20 bucks) and hose (25 bucks).
I use the plane old gas-welding shade 4(?) lens. I can't afford the nice
$100 dollar ones. I have yet to find a good fitting pair.
Finches Performance Welding book is a good reference.
EAAs welding book and video are ok.
BRAZING
Think of brazing as gluing two pieces of metal together with another metal.
You only have to heat the base metal hot enough to melt the brazing rod (you
don't melt the rod in the flame). Contrary to what some believe, brazing is
not necessarily weaker then welding. If you use the correct braze material
it can be stronger then the base metal. As I understand it, 4130 does not
react well to brazing because the braze gets into the crystalline structure
and can cause cracks when it cools. Not a good thing. So I weld all my 4130
fittings.
For what it's worth
Chris Tracy.
Sacramento, Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Luther" <luther(at)gci.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding torch
>
> Ron:
>
> I used the special Tinmantech lens for Gas welding aluminum and it works
> beautifully. Worth every penny ($100) for Aluminum, but not necessary
for
> 4130 Chrome Molly.
>
> Mike L.
>
> Franck wrote:
>
> >
> > I'm contemplating the purchase of the Meco Midget welding torch. For
those
> > of you who have actual experience using this product, what are your
> > re-actions and recommendations concerning this product? What size
welding
> > tips and what other accessories should the end user consider? How about
a
> > evaluation of the special welding lenses offered by
> > http://www.tinmantech.com/html/tm2000.html? Thanks, Ron Franck
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: step a side with your push stick too |
I bought one of these Grip-tite magnetic feather boards ($39) and I love it!
I highly recommend this product. No need to use your left hand to hold the
board against the fence anymore. Its easy to put in place holds the wood
tight against the fence.
I can't afford to loose anymore digits as I lost a finger tip to a front
door in 69' and sawed half way through my left thumb with a table saw in
83'. I sill get a cold chill down my spine when I use the table saw.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: step a side with your push stick too
>
> Gosh, I don't think I ever got relaxed with using the table saw, and I'm
> glad of that. In addition to what
> Farmer Del M. said about using push sticks, (I used two of them---one to
> push and the other to keep the material
> against the fence) I would stay off to one side or the other slightly
> rather than standing directly behind the blade path------
> that is after a piece of wood kicked back and left a huge black and blue
> mark just above my belt line.
>
> I got the saw for free---a used Craftsman, but spent $60 bucks on a
carbide
> tipped blade that still cuts like butter.
> The best monies I ever spent were on that blade and Tony's books.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
I also learned the hard way on trimming a small board on a table saw. That 1/2"
x 1" x 14" long piece will really fly back if it is cut against the fence and
no push stick is used to hold it in place. Instantly, after the cut is made,
the small piece comes back at the speed of the saw blade "REALLY FAST" and is
crotch level on a 6' person. It gives new meaning to the color purple, and no,
blue jeans will not slow it down.
My Dad, a retired Delta Airlines avionics wizard, gave me a couple of valuable
tips on grinder safety. 1- Always let the grinder run for 1 minute before using
or stepping into the path of the wheel. 2- NEVER grind aluminum. As you are
grinding, a small speck of aluminum may melt to the wheel. Every time the wheel
comes by the aluminum it picks up another layer of the metal driving it deeper
into the wheel similar to a wedge into a stick of firewood. I think you get
the picture.
Still singin' the high notes
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | fuselage framing |
A picture is always worth a 1000 words (or more, if it's a picture of a
female of the species ;o) so in the interest of clarifying the question
regarding the verticals of the side framing and the horizontals of the top
and bottom framing, look at the picture at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/P1010101.JPG . This is a bare aft fuselage
of an unnamed, unidentified Piet located somewhere in the wilds of
Louisiana, and it clearly shows how the framing comes together at each node.
This should answer your question.
Sorry... no pictures of females.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: step a side with your push stick too |
Chris,
Hey...thanks for posting this. Now thats a cool product. I have never heard of
such device. It's so simple and makes such good sense. I wish I could be so
creative to invent such a device. I could have used this on the joiner last
weekend.
http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_details.cfm?&offerings_id=2077&catid=7&objectgroup_id=407&sid=AFA09
I have to say....every time I use the band saw, skill saw, radial arm, planer,
joiner... I cringe at the thought of messing up. In the 1970s as a kid, I watched
my grandfather saw off 4 fingers on his left hand sawing with a skill saw
on top of a roof. It is a wonder he didn't fall off and break his neck too.
My dad amazed me...sprang into action...tore off his own shirt to make a turnekit
(sp?). I thought my dad was incredible... he carried my grandfather down
the ladder, and loaded him into the car. My grandfather fainted 4 times on the
way to the emergency room.
--
Terry B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator control cables |
I played at mock-ups with this for a long time and got no where. The only
conclusion I came up with is that there ought to be a double type bell crank----
such that the bell crank part going to the front cables faces them
perpendicular ( that is tipped -top forward,bottom back) and then on the same shaft
a
bellcrank perpendicular to the rear elevator cables. I havnt gotten this far yet
- just at this point an idea.
Henry Williams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Howard Henderson Pietenpol update |
Wes Scott and I did the iron man run from mid Missouri
to Waynesboro, VA to pick up my new to me, Pietenpol,
N444MH, the Howard Henderson Pietenpol. Wes fabricated
racks for his car trailer and they worked great. The
only thing we had to redo was that we did not consider
the airleron horns and had to shim up the carpet
covered slides. The whole trip took 16 hours of clock
time and we drove straight through both ways. Got lots
of interest at gas stations and from passing cars and
trucks. Women were giving us the "eye", knowing that
we had to be two hot guys hauling that old airplane
around.
Anyway, next week sometime Wes will bring the plane
down here to Springfield, and we will rig the plane in
Ozark at the airport I have rented a covered space. I
know that sometime, the plane will have to be
completely enclosed in a hangar if I can find one
without giving Erectatube $325 a month like I do with
my Bonanza.
As per suggestions, yesterday I got in a Cub and did
some airwork, and then lots of landings. I have never
even SAT in a Cub, all my time from tailwheels was
from the mid 60's and in Champs.
I have to brag that these were some good landings,
even if I do say so myself. The instructor said I will
have no problem with the Piet. (knock on wood).
I will feel better about climbing into it, now, but
admit I will be plenty nervous. I am still soliciting
advice, so let it fly.
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
_______________________________
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Howard Henderson Pietenpol update |
Congrats Larry.
You have a beautiful airplane.
--
Terry B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Good deal, Larry Nelson on getting the Henderson Air Camper back to St.
Louis safely.
Glad to hear too that you only have some light rust on your tailwheel
skills and that you did good in the
Cub.
One thing to keep in mind when you do fly the Ford Piet for the first time
is that everything will happen in
slow motion as compared to the Cub. By that I mean that the controls will
not feel as crisp at 60 mph as they
do a 75 in a Cub. What a Ford Piet feels like to me is a 65 Continental
Piet in slow flight--or slow---er flight than
cruise.
The other thing you might notice is the fine aroma of Co and other exhaust
gases running along side your left earlobe
area. If you feel a headache or a bit of nausea, just lean out the right
side for a few minutes.
I found the radiator up front to not be a problem visibility wise since it
is far enough ahead of you to only block a small
portion of the horizon----and that during landing you are mostly
referencing the runway edges to keep yourself centered
anyway.
Lastly, I found that you come down pretty steeply with idle power on final
so carrying a tad of power might help you in
your first few landings, til you are in the round-out.
Have you been able to contact Howard's old buddy from Boeing who used to
ferry his plane to Wisconsin and back,
John Strutman ? He could give you some nice pointers on speeds,
techniques, etc. John was a nice guy the time
I met him at Brodhead. Course Howard would know the speeds and such
too. Larry Williams would be Mr. Ford flying advice too I'll bet.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | elevator cable tension |
Ted notes-
>I detect that the front cables tighten and loosen at different rates
>between
>full back and full forward on the control stick. I wonder if anyone has
>offset the cable attachpoints on the stick to account for this and keep the
>tension even?
Well, I believe John Dilatush did that on "Mountain Piet", among others. I
have pictures of his airplane on my website at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html but I didn't get any
pictures of the area behind the pilot's seat where the control horn is
located, and the ones that show the elevator and tail group really don't
show the full deflection scenario but I'm almost certain that John said his
cables don't rub the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer and the
cables both maintain tension through the full range of stick travel fore and
aft.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Anderson" <piet4ken(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Front rudder bar |
connect rudder pedals together with a cable run frum one pedal back under
rear seat across and forward to other pedal
that would take the foot forces like rudder bar
ken
> [Original Message]
> From: <rhartwig11(at)juno.com>
> To:
> Cc:
> Date: 9/13/2004 7:08:49 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Front rudder bar
>
>
> "concerning moving the rudder bar to the front cockpit and connecting the
>
> rear pedals to the front rudder bar using solid tubing as has been
> discussed on this group"
>
> Rick,
> Others have done this successfully, hopefully they will chime in. There
> has been a lot said about doing things the way Bernard did
> them......well......on the "Last Original" built by Bernard there is no
> rudder bar. So, I guess sometimes even Bernard didn't follow the plans.
> That plane is owned by Bill Knight of Brodhead.
>
> Some have even suggested putting a "rudder bar" behind the rear seat--I
> haven't thought that one through.
> Dick Hartwig
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wooden control stick |
Hello Ted,
I think a better option could be a piece of soft aluminum tubing on the
bottom of the metal stick, as fuse, it will have less strenth that the
one in the pilot's cabin but will bend or break in the bottom, no
debris to get hurt... Maybe a "chicken cable" inside so the stick
remains inside the cabin... Some full testing in the ground will be
advised. Well, just one point of view.
About 4 years ago, there was an incident with an ultralight, the
passenger (big guy) panicked and hold the stick really hard. The pilot
wrestled for the power from the front seat. the whole sistem got so
bent that there was hardly any movement of the controls, they BRS
parachuted down. They were on patern, he freezed the moment was told
they were getting ready to land. Guys on the strip could hear the
passenger yell all the way down... The fuselage was totaled but both
came out with only scratches, I was told was a hard landing even with
parachute they estimate about 400 fpm or more.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Ted Brousseau wrote:
>
>
> I have a variation of the wooden control stick debate. Years ago I
> had a
> passenger board at a charity event and I was worried about his
> motivations.
> It went well, but I immediately sawed of the front stick and inserted
> a
> broom stick so I could remove the front stick easily. This came in
> handy
> when filling the front passenger compartment full of gear on long
> X-C.
>
> Last year a biplane crashed because they believe a passenger in the
> front
> collapsed and forced the stick forward. I decided the best solution
> would
> be to make the same change I had already made except use balsa
> instead.
> This way I could leave in the stick for the passenger to use, but if
> he/she
> tried to overpower me, I would win because the front stick would
> break away.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Ted Brousseau
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
_______________________________
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Howard Henderson Pietenpol update |
Could you elaborate a little on that "Erectatube" part? Is that an ointment
or a pill???
wrote :
>
>
> Wes Scott and I did the iron man run from mid Missouri
> to Waynesboro, VA to pick up my new to me, Pietenpol,
> N444MH, the Howard Henderson Pietenpol. Wes fabricated
> racks for his car trailer and they worked great. The
> only thing we had to redo was that we did not consider
> the airleron horns and had to shim up the carpet
> covered slides. The whole trip took 16 hours of clock
> time and we drove straight through both ways. Got lots
> of interest at gas stations and from passing cars and
> trucks. Women were giving us the "eye", knowing that
> we had to be two hot guys hauling that old airplane
> around.
>
> Anyway, next week sometime Wes will bring the plane
> down here to Springfield, and we will rig the plane in
> Ozark at the airport I have rented a covered space. I
> know that sometime, the plane will have to be
> completely enclosed in a hangar if I can find one
> without giving Erectatube $325 a month like I do with
> my Bonanza.
>
> As per suggestions, yesterday I got in a Cub and did
> some airwork, and then lots of landings. I have never
> even SAT in a Cub, all my time from tailwheels was
> from the mid 60's and in Champs.
>
> I have to brag that these were some good landings,
> even if I do say so myself. The instructor said I will
> have no problem with the Piet. (knock on wood).
>
> I will feel better about climbing into it, now, but
> admit I will be plenty nervous. I am still soliciting
> advice, so let it fly.
>
>
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
>
> _______________________________
> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> http://vote.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Howard Henderson Pietenpol update |
Could you elaborate a little on that "Erectatube" part? Is that an ointment
or a pill???
wrote :
>
>
> Wes Scott and I did the iron man run from mid Missouri
> to Waynesboro, VA to pick up my new to me, Pietenpol,
> N444MH, the Howard Henderson Pietenpol. Wes fabricated
> racks for his car trailer and they worked great. The
> only thing we had to redo was that we did not consider
> the airleron horns and had to shim up the carpet
> covered slides. The whole trip took 16 hours of clock
> time and we drove straight through both ways. Got lots
> of interest at gas stations and from passing cars and
> trucks. Women were giving us the "eye", knowing that
> we had to be two hot guys hauling that old airplane
> around.
>
> Anyway, next week sometime Wes will bring the plane
> down here to Springfield, and we will rig the plane in
> Ozark at the airport I have rented a covered space. I
> know that sometime, the plane will have to be
> completely enclosed in a hangar if I can find one
> without giving Erectatube $325 a month like I do with
> my Bonanza.
>
> As per suggestions, yesterday I got in a Cub and did
> some airwork, and then lots of landings. I have never
> even SAT in a Cub, all my time from tailwheels was
> from the mid 60's and in Champs.
>
> I have to brag that these were some good landings,
> even if I do say so myself. The instructor said I will
> have no problem with the Piet. (knock on wood).
>
> I will feel better about climbing into it, now, but
> admit I will be plenty nervous. I am still soliciting
> advice, so let it fly.
>
>
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
>
> _______________________________
> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> http://vote.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: George T. Alexander, Jr.
Subject: HR 5035
Walt:
The actual bill H. R. 5035
George
To require the Secretary of Homeland Security to provide the same screening of
all passengers and property that will be carried aboard a passenger aircraft operated
in the United States... (Introduced in House)
HR 5035 IH
108th CONGRESS
2d Session
H. R. 5035
To require the Secretary of Homeland Security to provide the same screening of
all passengers and property that will be carried aboard a passenger aircraft operated
in the United States by a person other than an air carrier as is provided
for all passengers and property that are carried aboard a passenger aircraft
operated by an air carrier, and for other purposes.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
September 8, 2004
Mr. WEINER introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on
Transportation and Infrastructure
A BILL
To require the Secretary of Homeland Security to provide the same screening of
all passengers and property that will be carried aboard a passenger aircraft operated
in the United States by a person other than an air carrier as is provided
for all passengers and property that are carried aboard a passenger aircraft
operated by an air carrier, and for other purposes.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States
of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SCREENING FOR NONAIR-CARRIER AIRCRAFT.
(a) In General- The Secretary of Homeland Security shall provide the same screening
of all passengers and property that will be carried aboard a passenger
aircraft operated in the United States by a person other than an air carrier (as
defined in section 40102 of title 49, United States Code) as the screening
that is provided for all passengers and property that are carried aboard a passenger
aircraft operated by an air carrier under section 44901 of such title.
(b) Deadline for Beginning- On the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary
shall begin development of a plan, acquiring and training personnel, and acquiring
equipment for providing the screening required by subsection (a).
SEC. 2. SPECIAL RULES REGARDING FLIGHTS OF NONAIR-CARRIER AIRCRAFT.
(a) In General- The Secretary of Transportation shall take such action as may
be necessary to ensure that--
(1) no aircraft described in section 1 flies--
(A) within 1,500 feet of any structure or building; or
(B) over a city with a population of 1,000,000 or more or any other location
the Secretary of Homeland Security determines appropriate, except on approach
or departure to an airport; and
(2) the pilot of a flight of any aircraft described in section 1 remains in
contact with the Federal Aviation Administration regardless of the altitude of
such aircraft.
(b) Exceptions- The Secretary shall except from any requirement of subsection
(a) an aircraft carrying out such police, medical, or other operations as the
Secretary determines appropriate.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
OK, so if I have an Air Camper in my backyard (I live on a farm and have my
own runway and a hanger out back) and if this bill passes, I'm supposed to call
the Feds, ask them to drive 52 miles out here to my rural location in
Hicksville, TX and look at my plane and paperwork, EACH TIME before I can take
off
to look for a few head of cattle on Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn
Cattle Ranch?
I guess I'll call the Feds in late October (Halloween) and dress up as
migratory sheep herder from Smellbadistan, just to get the Feds fired up when they
arrive at the gate to my ranchito. When the TSA guys get to my place, I'll tell
them this is how I dress up when I herd my farm animals on my ranch from a
two seater wooden Air Camper.
Hmm, now if I understand it, the sponsor of this bill doesn't want me flying
my Cherokee 140 over a city of more than a million people (NYC) but its OK to
fly over El Paso, >less than 1 mil? Is that to say the sponsor of the bill
thinks that people in smaller communities are less significant than people in
Chicago, or Phoenix or Houston?
This really stinks.
I think this Congressman needs to go to Smellbadistan so he can duke it out
with the real bad guys, not plane people like experimenters and GA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
This posting re this proposed bill has already made the rounds of several other
user group sites. Couple comments I saw, 1) Mr. Wiener is a relatively young
unimportant House member from NY trying to keep his job by hyping his bill as
protecting his NY constituency, fur-git-a-bout-it, it's just hot air politics
as usual, in a season of lots of hot air, 2) It doesn't have a chance of getting
out of subcomittee, let alone, make it's way thru the entire Congress on
to the Pres for signing.
Gordon Bowen
N1033B
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: HR 5035
OK, so if I have an Air Camper in my backyard (I live on a farm and have my own
runway and a hanger out back) and if this bill passes, I'm supposed to call
the Feds, ask them to drive 52 miles out here to my rural location in Hicksville,
TX and look at my plane and paperwork, EACH TIME before I can take off to
look for a few head of cattle on Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle
Ranch?
I guess I'll call the Feds in late October (Halloween) and dress up as migratory
sheep herder from Smellbadistan, just to get the Feds fired up when they arrive
at the gate to my ranchito. When the TSA guys get to my place, I'll tell
them this is how I dress up when I herd my farm animals on my ranch from a two
seater wooden Air Camper.
Hmm, now if I understand it, the sponsor of this bill doesn't want me flying
my Cherokee 140 over a city of more than a million people (NYC) but its OK to
fly over El Paso, >less than 1 mil? Is that to say the sponsor of the bill thinks
that people in smaller communities are less significant than people in Chicago,
or Phoenix or Houston?
This really stinks.
I think this Congressman needs to go to Smellbadistan so he can duke it out with
the real bad guys, not plane people like experimenters and GA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
But if just ONE important House member does sign on, this bill could cause a lot
of heart burn for GA.
Cy Galley
Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: HR 5035
This posting re this proposed bill has already made the rounds of several other
user group sites. Couple comments I saw, 1) Mr. Wiener is a relatively young
unimportant House member from NY trying to keep his job by hyping his bill
as protecting his NY constituency, fur-git-a-bout-it, it's just hot air politics
as usual, in a season of lots of hot air, 2) It doesn't have a chance of getting
out of subcomittee, let alone, make it's way thru the entire Congress on
to the Pres for signing.
Gordon Bowen
N1033B
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: HR 5035
OK, so if I have an Air Camper in my backyard (I live on a farm and have my
own runway and a hanger out back) and if this bill passes, I'm supposed to call
the Feds, ask them to drive 52 miles out here to my rural location in Hicksville,
TX and look at my plane and paperwork, EACH TIME before I can take off
to look for a few head of cattle on Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle
Ranch?
I guess I'll call the Feds in late October (Halloween) and dress up as migratory
sheep herder from Smellbadistan, just to get the Feds fired up when they
arrive at the gate to my ranchito. When the TSA guys get to my place, I'll tell
them this is how I dress up when I herd my farm animals on my ranch from a
two seater wooden Air Camper.
Hmm, now if I understand it, the sponsor of this bill doesn't want me flying
my Cherokee 140 over a city of more than a million people (NYC) but its OK to
fly over El Paso, >less than 1 mil? Is that to say the sponsor of the bill thinks
that people in smaller communities are less significant than people in Chicago,
or Phoenix or Houston?
This really stinks.
I think this Congressman needs to go to Smellbadistan so he can duke it out
with the real bad guys, not plane people like experimenters and GA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | "Last Flight Out" on TV last night |
Guys-- normally I don't watch a ton of TV but my wife Karen had something
tuned in last night that caught my eye.
A Cessna Caravan trying to clear some trees on takeoff while being shot at
from people in the jungle........a helicopter
resuce mission in the jungle. Aside from the aviation portions of the
show, it was actually a show with no cursing, no gays
or lesbians, no slams against men or women-- it was really refreshing ! I
think that even Red Skelton would have approved of this one !
For more info see:
http://www.billygraham.org/TV_Index.asp?QR4&BA11
The movie will air again....this from the web site:
National Cable Channels Last Flight Out will also be broadcast on the
=B7 Friday, September 24, 9 p.m. on WGN
=B7 Saturday, September 25, 9 a.m. on Lifetime
=B7 Saturday, September 25, 10 p.m. on FamilyNet
=B7 Sunday, September 26, 9 p.m. on The Inspiration Network
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Handheld Antennae |
Next week, when I launch N444MH, I will have my Vertex
VXA-700 in my shirtpocket until I can get a mount
figured out.
I wonder how these work with just the antenna that is
attached to the unit? How many of you have a remote
antenna? (That Model A might drown it out anyway, we
shall see.)
Also, what is the consensus of headphones and cloth
helmet solution? I ordered one with the headphone
holes, but would rather have a "built in" cloth or
leather helmet. Anyone seen anything like this?
Maybe I could build in some phones into my Viking
helmet.
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
Is anyone else having problems with Yahoo?
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
I am not on yahoo...but your email came thru OK.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | pics posted - a few |
Dear group,
I just posted some new photos.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=220
I have had an productive week. I am on a roll. I have spent a more than 2
hours a nite for the past 6 evenings working on the Piet. Thats a new record
for me. Actually I've been RE-working the floor, sanding down the interior
woodwork, and varnishing. It feels good to have things moving in the right
direction. Everything inside the front cockpit to the firewall has at least 2
coats on now. I hope to have the rear cockpit woodwork completed to this
point by Saturday afternoon. Once these are done, I will be able to start
assembling rudder and tailwheel cables, rudder pedals, etc... Meanwhile, Lon is
working on the throttle linkage preparing for install.
Jim Markle.... are you out there? Pretty soon, I am going to pack up a bunch
of my miscellaneous metal parts (throttle control brackets, rudder pedals,
etc...) so I can bring them up to your sgop for a powder coating lesson. I'll
need to find a free weekend....perhaps it will be mid October, but I hope not
that far off.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=220
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: "Last Flight Out" on TV last night |
In a message dated 9/15/2004 11:03:28 PM Central Standard Time,
bconoly(at)earthlink.net writes:
> I think of the Red Skeltons, George Burnses, and Milton Berles.
I need to add my favorite, Jack Benny. And for those of us who were kids
growing up in the 1950s, weren't we a lucky bunch? Red Skelton kept me, my mom
and
dad and sister glued to the tube as a family unit.
I think this is one of the things that is so appealing about the Air Camper,
it's like a time machine that takes me back to a time when people had more
dignity, things were slower (and lower) and when folks didn't even bother locking
their doors, and when funny men kept their acts clean and their language
polite.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edwin Johnson <elj(at)shreve.net> |
| Subject: | Handheld Antennae |
Hello Larry,
> Next week, when I launch N444MH, I will have my Vertex
> VXA-700 in my shirtpocket until I can get a mount
> I wonder how these work with just the antenna that is
> attached to the unit? How many of you have a remote
> antenna? (That Model A might drown it out anyway, we
Even though you are in the air and line-of-sight required for these
frequencies is somewhat easy, performance and efficiency of _any_ 'rubber
duck' antenna on a handheld is dismal to say the least.
Most of the rod antennas for planes (as opposed to the blade antennas used
on faster aircraft) are simple 1/4 wave. The only thing you must
absolutely make sure of to have such improvement is to build a 'ground
plane' on which to mount the antenna if mounting on a non-metal area. (Not
too many metal areas on a Piet.) This can be simple sheet aluminum. If you
fail to do this, the efficiency will be lost and the mismatch isn't good
for the transmitter.
One method would be to put the sheet/ground plane on the bottom of the
fuselage and mount the antenna downwards. Since most rod antennas have a
bend there is enough clearance with the ground. On my Maule a metal sheet
is inside the airplane so that the fabric covers the plate with the
antenna mounted on the outside.
On Corky's plane he built the ground plane inside the fuselage behind the
rear seat and mounted the antenna upside down - but watch the cables
there.
On top of the wing or center section would be good providing a ground
plane can be located there.
At any rate the external antenna will make the handheld very usable,
provided you can hear it over the 'Ford' and there isn't too much noise
from the ignition.
...Edwin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Edwin Johnson ....... elj(at)shreve.net ~
~ http://www.shreve.net/~elj ~
~ ~
~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the ~
~ earth with your eyes turned skyward, ~
~ for there you have been, there you long ~
~ to return." -- da Vinci ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | wing tank option? |
Since I don't have any wood to cut yet, I have time to think about other
things, and one of the things I was thinking about was the wing tank.
Specifically, I was wondering about ways to increase the capacity of the
wing tank. Nine or ten gallons just seems a bit small, and if it could be
increased, there wouldn't be the concerns about shifting CG with a nose
tank, as flight progresses (and the need for elevator trim,etc). I really
would like to have some space to stow junk, and don't want to use the wing
and the nose for fuel. So... One thought I had was to incorporate a wing
tank similar to the style used on the old deHavilland Moths (pic attached).
I would think the tank capacity could be doubled (I know, I know it would
look different). What I have no idea about is how such a change might affect
the flight of the plane. Any ideas?
A second idea I had (two in one day, not bad!) was to make two tanks, which
could be interchanged. A smaller tank like the plans, for short joyrides,
and a larger "moth style" tank for cross-country flights. This may present
more problems than it's worth. I don't profess to know anything about the
installation of fuel tanks. Maybe one of you out there could share your
expertise or opinion. please don't jump all over me for suggesting a change.
It's just a thought.
Bill
<>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
In a message dated 9/16/04 12:41:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
eng(at)canadianrogers.com writes:
<< >
>>
Has anyone built the center wing tank, and then 2 small tanks in the next
outboard spaces ( Left and Right ) on the wings
Henry Williams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
the drag-antidrag wires would make it difficult. The tanks would have to be
done like a Champ with tubes welded into them to allow the wires to
pass-through.
I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be put in the
leading edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would hold but
enough to extend the range at least another hour or so.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: <Borodent(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
>
> In a message dated 9/16/04 12:41:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> eng(at)canadianrogers.com writes:
>
> << >
> >>
> Has anyone built the center wing tank, and then 2 small tanks in the next
> outboard spaces ( Left and Right ) on the wings
> Henry Williams
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Handheld Antennae |
In a message dated 9/15/04 9:13:25 AM Central Daylight Time,
lnelson208(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< I wonder how these work with just the antenna that is
attached to the unit? How many of you have a remote
antenna? (That Model A might drown it out anyway, we
shall see.)
Also, what is the consensus of headphones and cloth
helmet solution? I ordered one with the headphone
holes, but would rather have a "built in" cloth or
leather helmet. Anyone seen anything like this? >>
Larry,
I have an Icom A-5, and use a kacky cloth helmet with the cutouts for the
headset. I built a mount out of sheet metal, and located this small radio on the
right side of the cockpit, on top of the longeron, so the antenna is almost
straight up, but out in the slipstream. There is not many options on where to
put this thing. I think the main thing about a rubber ducky antenna, is to
keep it pointed straight up. Mine is pointed a little bit off to the right, but
it's reception and transmission is pretty good, however the ducky antenna
flops all over the place out there in the slipstream, so I tied a string to the
from right rear cabane strut back to the antenna to stabilize it. I'm planning
on installing a remote antenna, with a ground plane like what Edwin
described...I'm just not sure where to locate it yet. Ambient noise of the engine
and
wind is the biggest problem I have with using the radio, and I'm kickin'
around the idea of a ANR headset. Then comes the intercom. In flight I'm using
hand signals, and a tap with my feet on the passengers hip, to
communicate....just can't yell loud enough !!
You've got some milestone flights coming up...some very exiting times !!
Keep us informed.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
While we're on the subject of radios, I do have a problem with my GPS
interfering with the headset. Whenever the GPS is turned on, it causes noise over
my
headset, but no problem when recieving, or transmitting. I've tried several
different locations, but it's always there when the GPS is turned on...very
annoying. I can hold my hand on top of the GPS, and most of the noise goes
away. This lead me to try using alluminum foil over and around the GPS, but it
didn't reduce the noise at all. Any ideas ?
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Morris <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com> |
Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
| Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
<001e01c49c49$7bbb61c0$0100a8c0@Desktop>
Fascinating idea. These tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons each.
-Don
DJ Vegh wrote:
>
>the drag-antidrag wires would make it difficult. The tanks would have to be
>done like a Champ with tubes welded into them to allow the wires to
>pass-through.
>
>I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be put in the
>leading edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would hold but
>enough to extend the range at least another hour or so.
>
>DJ
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Borodent(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 4:28 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
>
>
>
>
>>
>>In a message dated 9/16/04 12:41:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>>eng(at)canadianrogers.com writes:
>>
>><< >
>> >>
>>Has anyone built the center wing tank, and then 2 small tanks in the next
>>outboard spaces ( Left and Right ) on the wings
>>Henry Williams
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael McCarty" <mmccarty(at)zianet.com> |
<000901c49ad3$a353eda0$b15ad90c@yourxhtr8hvc4p>
The only way this bill was going to make it to the floor this year is if it was
tacked on to a larger aviation security
bill. Congressman Weiner spoke to the aviation subcommittee Wedenesday and said
that he had a long conversation
with another subcommittee member, Congressman Boswell of Iowa who is a pilot and
AOPA member, and that
Rep Boswell had enlightened him to what the term "General Aviation" entails on
a national basis. It seems Rep Weiner
was concerned about the tourist helicopters in the NYC area. He was quite concerned
about the fact that they can
take off and land as they please without talking to FAA and that they take unscreened
passengers around the area
on a daily basis. That is what prompted him to present the bill. This bill as
written was set aside by the aviation
subcommittee, with Congressman Weiner's concerns duly noted.
It really makes you wonder what kind of credentials are needed to serve on the
aviation subcommittee. This guy
didn't have a clue to the far-reaching impact of the bill he had proposed. You
would think he would have at least
done his homework first...
-Mike McCarty
----- Original Message -----
From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: HR 5035
But if just ONE important House member does sign on, this bill could cause a lot
of heart burn for GA.
Cy Galley
Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: HR 5035
This posting re this proposed bill has already made the rounds of several other
user group sites. Couple comments I saw, 1) Mr.
Wiener is a relatively young unimportant House member from NY trying to keep his
job by hyping his bill as protecting his NY
constituency, fur-git-a-bout-it, it's just hot air politics as usual, in a season
of lots of hot air, 2) It doesn't have a chance
of getting out of subcomittee, let alone, make it's way thru the entire Congress
on to the Pres for signing.
Gordon Bowen
N1033B
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: HR 5035
OK, so if I have an Air Camper in my backyard (I live on a farm and have my
own runway and a hanger out back) and if this bill
passes, I'm supposed to call the Feds, ask them to drive 52 miles out here to
my rural location in Hicksville, TX and look at my
plane and paperwork, EACH TIME before I can take off to look for a few head of
cattle on Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn
Cattle Ranch?
I guess I'll call the Feds in late October (Halloween) and dress up as migratory
sheep herder from Smellbadistan, just to get
the Feds fired up when they arrive at the gate to my ranchito. When the TSA guys
get to my place, I'll tell them this is how I dress
up when I herd my farm animals on my ranch from a two seater wooden Air Camper.
Hmm, now if I understand it, the sponsor of this bill doesn't want me flying
my Cherokee 140 over a city of more than a million
people (NYC) but its OK to fly over El Paso, >less than 1 mil? Is that to say the
sponsor of the bill thinks that people in smaller
communities are less significant than people in Chicago, or Phoenix or Houston?
This really stinks.
I think this Congressman needs to go to Smellbadistan so he can duke it out
with the real bad guys, not plane people like
experimenters and GA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
<414A4106.5020406(at)donsplans.com>
| Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
the reason I dropped the idea was I could not think of a graceful way to have a
filler cap installed. I didn't like the idea of having caps coming out of the
top of the leading edge.
I have a 14.5 gallon fuse tank which should give me 2.7 hours or so and I plan
on making a 12"x12"x16" aluminum fuel cell that I will mount to the front seat
as an aux tank if I want to do some cross country.... extending my range another
1.5 hours. My main fuse tank has an aux inlet that a line would be plumbed
to via a fuel pump to get fuel from the seat mounted aux tank to the main tank.
That'll all come later... first I need to get this thing flying!
DJ Vegh
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Morris
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
Fascinating idea. These tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons each.
-Don
DJ Vegh wrote:
the drag-antidrag wires would make it difficult. The tanks would have to be
done like a Champ with tubes welded into them to allow the wires to
pass-through.
I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be put in the
leading edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would hold but
enough to extend the range at least another hour or so.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: <Borodent(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
In a message dated 9/16/04 12:41:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
eng(at)canadianrogers.com writes:
<< >
>>
Has anyone built the center wing tank, and then 2 small tanks in the next
outboard spaces ( Left and Right ) on the wings
Henry Williams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
>Since I don't have any wood to cut yet, I have time to think about other
>things, and one of the things I was thinking about was the wing tank.
>Specifically, I was wondering about ways to increase the capacity of the
>wing tank. Nine or ten gallons just seems a bit small, and if it could be
>increased, there wouldn't be the concerns about shifting CG with a nose
>tank, as flight progresses (and the need for elevator trim,etc). I really
>would like to have some space to stow junk, and don't want to use the wing
>and the nose for fuel. So... One thought I had was to incorporate a wing
>tank similar to the style used on the old deHavilland Moths (pic attached).
>I would think the tank capacity could be doubled (I know, I know it would
>look different). What I have no idea about is how such a change might affect
>the flight of the plane. Any ideas?
>A second idea I had (two in one day, not bad!) was to make two tanks, which
>could be interchanged. A smaller tank like the plans, for short joyrides,
>and a larger "moth style" tank for cross-country flights. This may present
>more problems than it's worth. I don't profess to know anything about the
>installation of fuel tanks. Maybe one of you out there could share your
>expertise or opinion. please don't jump all over me for suggesting a change.
>It's just a thought.
>
>Bill
Bill, I'm not exactly sure how he did it, but William Wynne glassed
in the entire center section on his now-defunct Corvair-powered
Pietenpol and had about a 20 gallon capacity.
You might get details from him at:
WilliamTCA(at)aol.com
BTW, it's way past time to mention it, but the Corvair College that
we sponsored up here in NE Ohio back in June was a huge sucess - we
had over 50 participants, and many people went home with closed
cases. Two groups went home with assembled engines, and the rest of
us just had a damn good time. We had people from as far away as
Minnesota and Connecticut. William said it was the best weather of
any Corvair College event so far. Everyone was envious of our new
Chapter clubhouse and workshop - built for a total investment of
$3000.
I'll be closing my engine case later this Fall, but having the CC at
our chapter sure made the process a lot less mysterious.
EAA Chapter 82 plans on sponsoring another Corvair College event next
summer, and William has agreed to do it barring any unforsen
catastrophic events, so all of you Corvair guys who did not make it
this year, plan on coming next year.
Cheers,
Kip Gardner, President EAA 82
--
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Handheld Antennae |
Larry,
I just went through this drill this past summer while testing two new planes
without external antennas. I could get the tower most of the time from 5-6
miles out with just the rubber antenna. Twice I needed the green light from
the tower because they couldn't hear me. I have never had a problem with
the Piet I routinely fly. It has an external antenna mounted which we
connect to the handheld. If you are just using it in the pattern at a
non-towered field it works fine because you are within a mile or so to the
other planes.
I am deciding at this time how I will mount an external antenna on my new
Piet. I am looking at internal antennas also. They all improve on what the
little rubber antenna does.
Ted Brousseau
From: Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Handheld Antennae
Next week, when I launch N444MH, I will have my Vertex
VXA-700 in my shirtpocket until I can get a mount
figured out.
I wonder how these work with just the antenna that is
attached to the unit? How many of you have a remote
antenna? (That Model A might drown it out anyway, we
shall see.)
Also, what is the consensus of headphones and cloth
helmet solution? I ordered one with the headphone
holes, but would rather have a "built in" cloth or
leather helmet. Anyone seen anything like this?
Maybe I could build in some phones into my Viking
helmet.
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Handheld Antennae |
Check out www.flightsuits.com I bought a leather helmet from them with
headphones built in. Pricey, but nice.
Jack Phillips, Raleigh NC
NX899JP is at the airport, waiting for the FAA to come and inspect it
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Handheld Antennae
In a message dated 9/15/04 9:13:25 AM Central Daylight Time,
lnelson208(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< I wonder how these work with just the antenna that is
attached to the unit? How many of you have a remote
antenna? (That Model A might drown it out anyway, we
shall see.)
Also, what is the consensus of headphones and cloth
helmet solution? I ordered one with the headphone
holes, but would rather have a "built in" cloth or
leather helmet. Anyone seen anything like this? >>
Larry,
I have an Icom A-5, and use a kacky cloth helmet with the cutouts for the
headset. I built a mount out of sheet metal, and located this small radio
on the
right side of the cockpit, on top of the longeron, so the antenna is almost
straight up, but out in the slipstream. There is not many options on where
to
put this thing. I think the main thing about a rubber ducky antenna, is to
keep it pointed straight up. Mine is pointed a little bit off to the right,
but
it's reception and transmission is pretty good, however the ducky antenna
flops all over the place out there in the slipstream, so I tied a string to
the
from right rear cabane strut back to the antenna to stabilize it. I'm
planning
on installing a remote antenna, with a ground plane like what Edwin
described...I'm just not sure where to locate it yet. Ambient noise of the
engine and
wind is the biggest problem I have with using the radio, and I'm kickin'
around the idea of a ANR headset. Then comes the intercom. In flight I'm
using
hand signals, and a tap with my feet on the passengers hip, to
communicate....just can't yell loud enough !!
You've got some milestone flights coming up...some very exiting times !!
Keep us informed.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Handheld Antennae |
There's a lot of stuff in the archives. Go to the search page
and put antenna in the box.
A couple of years ago at Arlington there was some info on
a company making up fitted earphones based on hearing
aid technology. They would make a mold of the inside of
your ears and go from there. No big earphones hanging off
your head. I filed that info in a safe place- safe from me it
appears. Oh, well.
> << I wonder how these work with just the antenna that is
> attached to the unit? How many of you have a remote
> antenna? (That Model A might drown it out anyway, we
> shall see.)
Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
DJ wrote
"I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be put in the leading
edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would hold but enough to
extend the range at least another hour or so."
Don wrote
"Fascinating idea. These tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons each."
----------------------------
This does sound interesting.... Some items to consider...
- In-flight yaw forces would tend to work against gravity. This could be dealt
with by using flapper-type check valves... but then you'd have to fill the tube
from the wing tip end.
- The weight (27 lb.) would be ahead of CG.
- Leading edge is fairly susceptible to hangar rash or other un-intended obstructions.
- Wing bending flexure should be considered in the design.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
Bill,
I met a gentleman at Brodhead this year with a 3 ft center section. I
believe his name is Bill Rewey (that's a phonetic spelling on his last
name). His wider center section adds 1 ft of wing span and allows for a
larger fuel tank, I think. He sells an information pack with helpful build
tips. His "Sub Hunting" piet is very well done.
Can someone get Mr. Rewey's (sp?) contact information to Mr. Church?
Greg Bacon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
> Since I don't have any wood to cut yet, I have time to think about other
> things, and one of the things I was thinking about was the wing tank.
> Specifically, I was wondering about ways to increase the capacity of the
> wing tank. Nine or ten gallons just seems a bit small, and if it could be
> increased, there wouldn't be the concerns about shifting CG with a nose
> tank, as flight progresses (and the need for elevator trim,etc). I really
> would like to have some space to stow junk, and don't want to use the wing
> and the nose for fuel. So... One thought I had was to incorporate a wing
> tank similar to the style used on the old deHavilland Moths (pic
attached).
> I would think the tank capacity could be doubled (I know, I know it would
> look different). What I have no idea about is how such a change might
affect
> the flight of the plane. Any ideas?
> A second idea I had (two in one day, not bad!) was to make two tanks,
which
> could be interchanged. A smaller tank like the plans, for short joyrides,
> and a larger "moth style" tank for cross-country flights. This may present
> more problems than it's worth. I don't profess to know anything about the
> installation of fuel tanks. Maybe one of you out there could share your
> expertise or opinion. please don't jump all over me for suggesting a
change.
> It's just a thought.
>
> Bill
>
>
> <>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
all good points Terry.
As for the yaw forces. I figured that the aux wing tank valve would be
opened when the main fuse tank was less than half.... fuel would drain into
the main fuse tank and top it off. As long as the aircraft was in straight
and level flight it should flow nicely..... BUT there would still be the
issue of the fuel coming out of the vents during uncoordinated flight when
the tanks were full.
sounds like a good idea on the surface, but more thinking shows it to be not
so good.
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
>
> DJ wrote
> "I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be put in
the leading edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would hold but
enough to extend the range at least another hour or so."
>
> Don wrote
> "Fascinating idea. These tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons each."
> ----------------------------
> This does sound interesting.... Some items to consider...
> - In-flight yaw forces would tend to work against gravity. This could be
dealt with by using flapper-type check valves... but then you'd have to fill
the tube from the wing tip end.
> - The weight (27 lb.) would be ahead of CG.
> - Leading edge is fairly susceptible to hangar rash or other un-intended
obstructions.
> - Wing bending flexure should be considered in the design.
>
> --
> Terry L. Bowden
> ph 254-715-4773
> fax 254-853-3805
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Under Seat Storage |
I exchanged some emails with Jim Markle yesterday at work after I saw a picture
of his pilot's seat with a hinged bottom. (They should have never given me internet
at work.) He got me thinking about using this space for cargo. I had
already been wanting to beef up the seat structure anyway because I thought the
original builder had made it too light. I thought about it all day yesterday
and even during my son's 7th grade "away" football game last nite. We got
home at 11pm. I had been dying to look over my seat structure all day. So I
went out to the shop to study how I might design something there. This led to
poster board mock up work. Before I knew it....the clock said 3am. I am excited
to report that I have come up with a neat little sheet metal compartment
design. There's actually more space down there than I expected. You could certainly
keep a quart or two of oil, some rags, fuel strainer, etc... down there.
And I accomplished a light weight beef up in the process. I am paying close
attention to protecting elev. and rudder cables. I plan to work on it some this
weekend. I'll try to post pictures soon.
I am on a roll...streak of 7 evenings in a row working on the Piet. One of them
a VERY late-nighter. I am draggin at work today... needing a nap big time.
:)
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <lebrandt(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
Greg,
Bill is a fellow Chapter member but he is not on the internet so here is his info.
Bill Rewey
3339 Mound View Rd
Verona, WI 53593
Hope this helps. I deleted the email from Mr Church so can you pass this on to
him?
Thanks
Leroy Brandt
>
> From: Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)direcway.com>
> Date: 2004/09/17 Fri PM 02:24:38 GMT
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
>
>
> Bill,
>
> I met a gentleman at Brodhead this year with a 3 ft center section. I
> believe his name is Bill Rewey (that's a phonetic spelling on his last
> name). His wider center section adds 1 ft of wing span and allows for a
> larger fuel tank, I think. He sells an information pack with helpful build
> tips. His "Sub Hunting" piet is very well done.
>
> Can someone get Mr. Rewey's (sp?) contact information to Mr. Church?
>
> Greg Bacon
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
> To: "Pietenpol List (E-mail)"
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 11:59 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
>
>
> > Since I don't have any wood to cut yet, I have time to think about other
> > things, and one of the things I was thinking about was the wing tank.
> > Specifically, I was wondering about ways to increase the capacity of the
> > wing tank. Nine or ten gallons just seems a bit small, and if it could be
> > increased, there wouldn't be the concerns about shifting CG with a nose
> > tank, as flight progresses (and the need for elevator trim,etc). I really
> > would like to have some space to stow junk, and don't want to use the wing
> > and the nose for fuel. So... One thought I had was to incorporate a wing
> > tank similar to the style used on the old deHavilland Moths (pic
> attached).
> > I would think the tank capacity could be doubled (I know, I know it would
> > look different). What I have no idea about is how such a change might
> affect
> > the flight of the plane. Any ideas?
> > A second idea I had (two in one day, not bad!) was to make two tanks,
> which
> > could be interchanged. A smaller tank like the plans, for short joyrides,
> > and a larger "moth style" tank for cross-country flights. This may present
> > more problems than it's worth. I don't profess to know anything about the
> > installation of fuel tanks. Maybe one of you out there could share your
> > expertise or opinion. please don't jump all over me for suggesting a
> change.
> > It's just a thought.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > <>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | wing tank option? |
| From: | "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
Bill gave me my first Piet ride this year at Brodhead, very nice man!
His contact info is:
Bill Rewey
608-833-5839
3339 Mondview Road
Verona, WI 53593-9743
Jack Textor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for Red Betsy |
Did anyone actually see the movie Red Besty about a family and a Pietenpol? It
was never released here and I can't find a copy anywhere. Any help?
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Cont Engine mount bolts |
Help..
What's the size (diameter and length) of the engine mount bolts used to mount an
A65 continental using the continental engine mount per plans? I had this somewhere
but can't find it when I need it.
I am planning to go shopping at the YARD store in Wichita next week. Chuck says
they have them there.
Thanks in advance.. :)
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for Red Betsy |
Go here for the website,,,
http://www.redbetsy.com/start.html
you can follow the show times. Seems that it started locally near Wis. and is
creeping around the country. Hopefully it will get everywhere.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Davis
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 11:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Red Betsy
Did anyone actually see the movie Red Besty about a family and a Pietenpol? It
was never released here and I can't find a copy anywhere. Any help?
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
Spent some time cleaning on my e-Bay Model A engine today and started
disassembling it. Bought a valve spring compressor tool and quickly figured out
how
to use and remove the retainers -- but the valves don't want to pop out of the
block. Is this because the stems are crudded up, or is there another set of
retainers on top of the spring?
A better question to ask you all might be what book do you recommend that has
complete disassembly/assembly/overhaul instructions for the Model A engine? I
couldn't find any at our local library or even interlibrary loan -- lot's of
book available on the car with some info on engines, but nothing I know of
devoted strictly to rebuilding the engine...
The good news is I have not spotted any cracks in my engine -- yet! Came from
near Fargo N.D. Was mounted in a wooden frame complete with radiator,
starter, generator and tranny -- was being used as a power take-off or saw mill
or
something...BHP would be proud to see this engine recycled! By selling the
non-airplane parts I basically paid for the engine -- shipped the tranny to
Houston, TX. The fellow only paid $63 for it on e-Bay, but was willing to pay almost
$140 for shipping! The good news for me is that it's out of my garage! The
starter and generator went to Michigan; the chrome radiator shell to Tucson and
the radiator (just like new!) went to Stockton, CA. Love that e-Bay!
Anyway -- any tips on engine disassembly or a good book would be appreciated.
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A engines |
Cruddy stems. If you have the springs and retainer washers off you can clean the
stems. Can you push up each valve by turning the crank? The cam should push
them up. If you have the cam lifters out you can use a brass drift to drive the
valve outs. You will probably want to put in new guides, valves and spring
when you overhaul.
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 3:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A engines
Spent some time cleaning on my e-Bay Model A engine today and started disassembling
it. Bought a valve spring compressor tool and quickly figured out how to
use and remove the retainers -- but the valves don't want to pop out of the
block. Is this because the stems are crudded up, or is there another set of retainers
on top of the spring?
A better question to ask you all might be what book do you recommend that has
complete disassembly/assembly/overhaul instructions for the Model A engine? I
couldn't find any at our local library or even interlibrary loan -- lot's of
book available on the car with some info on engines, but nothing I know of devoted
strictly to rebuilding the engine...
The good news is I have not spotted any cracks in my engine -- yet! Came from
near Fargo N.D. Was mounted in a wooden frame complete with radiator, starter,
generator and tranny -- was being used as a power take-off or saw mill or something...BHP
would be proud to see this engine recycled! By selling the non-airplane
parts I basically paid for the engine -- shipped the tranny to Houston,
TX. The fellow only paid $63 for it on e-Bay, but was willing to pay almost
$140 for shipping! The good news for me is that it's out of my garage! The starter
and generator went to Michigan; the chrome radiator shell to Tucson and the
radiator (just like new!) went to Stockton, CA. Love that e-Bay!
Anyway -- any tips on engine disassembly or a good book would be appreciated.
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Morris <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com> |
Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
| Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
<002c01c49cc6$cbbbd9c0$0100a8c0@Desktop>
I've been thinking - and that can get scary!
I was just putting the leading edge onto all those ribs this afternoon,
so if I were to do this, it would have to be right away. The 14 lbs
shouldn't be to difficult to support with a couple of plywood brackets,
and ample padding. By supporting the tubes at two points near each end
and allowing a bit of movement in the supports, this should allow for
wing flexure and thermal differences.
Now, for the use of the tank. I agree that a couple more fuel caps are
undesirous - got to find a better way. Also, I don't want to irrigate
the ground with fuel from the vents. However, I seem to recall that FAR
23 allows interconnected fuel tanks with interconnected airspaces. What
about attaching a tubes from the bottom of the main section tank to the
bottom of the D-cell tanks, and then attaching tubes from the outboard
top of the D-cell tanks to the inboard top of the D-cell tanks to the
top of the main fuel tanks. Keep the vent tubes fairly small, and put a
couple of slosh baffles in the tube tanks, then cover it all up and
forget about it. The only way to trap fuel in the tube tanks is to fly
for a long period of time with one wing low, and there is no place to
drain fuel out onto the ground except the main fuel vent.
Tell me what you tink, and why!
-Don
DJ Vegh wrote:
>
>all good points Terry.
>
>As for the yaw forces. I figured that the aux wing tank valve would be
>opened when the main fuse tank was less than half.... fuel would drain into
>the main fuse tank and top it off. As long as the aircraft was in straight
>and level flight it should flow nicely..... BUT there would still be the
>issue of the fuel coming out of the vents during uncoordinated flight when
>the tanks were full.
>
>sounds like a good idea on the surface, but more thinking shows it to be not
>so good.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 6:50 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
>
>
>
>
>>
>>DJ wrote
>>"I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be put in
>>
>>
>the leading edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would hold but
>enough to extend the range at least another hour or so."
>
>
>>Don wrote
>>"Fascinating idea. These tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons each."
>>----------------------------
>>This does sound interesting.... Some items to consider...
>>- In-flight yaw forces would tend to work against gravity. This could be
>>
>>
>dealt with by using flapper-type check valves... but then you'd have to fill
>the tube from the wing tip end.
>
>
>>- The weight (27 lb.) would be ahead of CG.
>>- Leading edge is fairly susceptible to hangar rash or other un-intended
>>
>>
>obstructions.
>
>
>>- Wing bending flexure should be considered in the design.
>>
>>--
>>Terry L. Bowden
>>ph 254-715-4773
>>fax 254-853-3805
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
How would you go about interconnecting the vented airspace? If not done properly,
fuel could become trapped inside the small diameter interconnect vent tubes
and could not allow air into the tank unless somehow burped. I am not trying
to be a pessimist. I think it could be done. Just stay safe.
Again... the concept is interesting...but is a challenge to design. There's a
lot to consider.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A engines |
I bought a 112-page book entitled "The Model A Engine", written by Wm.
Mcree and Paul Mcree. It's very informative and reasonably priced. I got
mine from MAC's or Snyder's Antique Auto Parts. It contains a lot of
elaboration on the differences between the various year models and also a
good bit of overhaul info.Carl Vought
>
>
> > to use and remove the retainers -- but the valves don't want to pop out
of the
> block. Is this because the stems are crudded up, or is there another set
of
> retainers on top of the spring?
>
> A better question to ask you all might be what book do you recommend that
has
> complete disassembly/assembly/overhaul instructions for the Model A
engine?
>
> Fred B.
> La Crosse, WI
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Andy Griffith, etc....... |
"Now, if I could only find a way to get rid of her boyfriend."
Stacy,
Years ago I worked for Continental Airlines. Every once in a while, (I like
to say, once in a blue moon) a large junk of blue ice would fall from the sky
at 33,000 feet. Those of us in the airline business always said this was sewage
from the holding tank of a passenger jet, leaking overboard.
If I were you, I'd go to Walmart, buy some Blue Ice (the stuff they have in
the Sporting Goods section that we freeze for coolers) and once it is frozen
good and hard, load it in your Pietenpol. Ask your daughter to send her
boyfriend hiking in the woods, then bomb the bozo with the Blue Ice. Surely, the
law
enforcement guys would surmise the chap met his death from frozen airline
sewage that plummeted down upon him.
Just a thought.
S.B.
Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch
5TA6, San Antonio Sectional
www.byop.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aircraft Spruce <fun_plane(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Mizer vrs NavMan |
da2a(at)yahoogroups.com, Aircar(at)yahoogroups.com,
canard-aviators(at)yahoogroups.com, Corby_Starlet(at)yahoogroups.com,
navion_aircraft_mail(at)yahoogroups.com, piper-cub-builders(at)yahoogroups.com,
quicksilverultralightowners(at)yahoogroups.com, RV10(at)yahoogroups.com,
subaruaircraft(at)yahoogroups.com, europa-list(at)matronics.com,
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Builders,
Thanks for bringing the matter of Fuel Mizer vs.
NavMan fuel computers to our attention. We have
carried Fuel Mizer for a couple of years and had never
heard of NavMan. We asked the manufacturer of NavMan
about the difference in the units, and as you can see
from the following commentary there is definitely a
difference, only the Fuel Mizer is recommended for
Aviation use. Fuel Mizer has been thoroughly tested
in aviation applications and is certified for
CAO-95-45 aircraft in the Australia.
Best Regards,
Jim Irwin
President, Aircraft Spruce
----- Original Message -----
From: SlipStream Industries, Inc.
Subject: Questions Regarding Fuel Mizer
Dear Jim:
I am forwarding an email I received from Ole Jensen,
President of Boss Products, the manufacturer of the
Fuel Mizer under license from Navman. SlipStream is
Boss Product's North American distributor. In his
response to the questions posed yesterday, he
references certain modifications and approvals
received for use of this product in aviation. The
exact language found on the cover of the Installation
and Instruction manual is as follows:
This instrument has been modified to comply with
Australian Engineering order HEO-469 and certified for
CAO 95-25 type aircraft in Australia.
Please let me know if you have any questions, or
desire any further information.
Kindest regards,
Mike Puhl
SlipStream International
----- Original Message -----
From: Ole Jensen
Subject: Re: Mizer.
Dear Mike:
The question raised regarding the Navman fuel
flow meter and the Mizer is a common one that has been
around for many years and a lot of people have lost
money and endangered themselves by purchasing the
Navman for use in aviation. Nearly all the Navman
units purchased for this application have failed and
Navman refuses to replace them under warranty. Several
years ago we negotiated with Navman and paid a
licensing fee that enabled us to make the appropriate
modifications for use in aviation. In addition, the
Mizer has been registered with CASA (the equivalent to
your FAA) and certified by a qualified aeronautical
engineer. Boss Products paid to have the appropriate
modifications made for use in civil aviation, and
these modifications have been improved upon several
times since. As a result, the Mizer enjoys an
excellent reliability record and has been certified
according to CAO order no.HEO-469 as printed on the
cover of the installation manual.
Any one doubting the validity of our agreement
with Navman is free to contact the Vice President of
Navman in New Zealand, Mr. Mark Michell, and he will
verify these facts. Boss Products is the only company
in the world licensed to modify and distribute this
particular product. Unfortunately, some unscrupulous
marine dealers still offer the Navman for use in
unapproved applications despite the knowledge that the
manufacturer strictly prohibits this practice. Greed
and ignorance are usually the motivator. I can also
tell you that the price differences between the Navman
and Fuel Mizer are reasonably close, especially
considering the potential danger for misuse in a
non-approved aviation application. Further, I spoke
with Navman earlier today and was told that no one in
the U.S. is offering this unit for anywhere close to
US $99.00, and that the suggested retail price is US
$299.00, though they offer special MAP pricing from
time to time.
Hope this helps to clear up this issue. Please let me
know if I can be of further assistance in any way.
Regards,
Ole Jensen
President
_______________________________
Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Model A engines |
There is a fellow in Stamford or Anson, Texas that does nothing but rebuild
Model A engines (full time) for people all across the USA and as far away as
Austrailia. He even pours his own babbit.
He was featured a few weeks ago on one of our local TV stations, KTXS-TV I
think.
For Southern folks wanting to put a Model A engine in their Pietenpol, but
not wanting to mess with the engine innerds... this guy might be a good source.
I figure if he has and continues to do work for people overseas, he must have
a good reputation.
If anyone is interested in finding out more about this guy, I'll be happy to
do some looking around and try to locate his shop.
An experienced A&P I know down here (Minot Piper of Abilene, TX) built and
flew his own Pietenpol using a Model A engine. I bet Minot knows the guy in
the news report.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
Long tanks on the leading edge sounds like a stability problem in the
making, even with slosh baffles. Consider having 6 pounds per gallon
moving back and forth from the fuselage to the wingtip while you're
flaring, or perhaps making the base-to-final turn. Then consider both
wings doing it in consort. It sounds like stall-spin city to me. I'm
certainly all for having more useable fuel, but there are many good
reasons why certified aircraft use several larger tanks close to the
fuselage and don't allow the contents of tip tanks to move anywhere very
quickly.
John (who has enough trouble getting them back on the ground gracefully
without having to chase the C.G. all over the place - and I don't mean
Chuck Gantzer)
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com Friday, September 17, 2004 4:04:00 PM
>>>
I've been thinking - and that can get scary!
I was just putting the leading edge onto all those ribs this afternoon,
so if I were to do this, it would have to be right away. The 14 lbs
shouldn't be to difficult to support with a couple of plywood brackets,
and ample padding. By supporting the tubes at two points near each end
and allowing a bit of movement in the supports, this should allow for
wing flexure and thermal differences.
Now, for the use of the tank. I agree that a couple more fuel caps are
undesirous - got to find a better way. Also, I don't want to irrigate
the ground with fuel from the vents. However, I seem to recall that FAR
23 allows interconnected fuel tanks with interconnected airspaces. What
about attaching a tubes from the bottom of the main section tank to the
bottom of the D-cell tanks, and then attaching tubes from the outboard
top of the D-cell tanks to the inboard top of the D-cell tanks to the
top of the main fuel tanks. Keep the vent tubes fairly small, and put a
couple of slosh baffles in the tube tanks, then cover it all up and
forget about it. The only way to trap fuel in the tube tanks is to fly
for a long period of time with one wing low, and there is no place to
drain fuel out onto the ground except the main fuel vent.
Tell me what you tink, and why!
-Don
DJ Vegh wrote:
good points Terry.As for the yaw forces. I figured that the aux wing
tank valve would beopened when the main fuse tank was less than half....
fuel would drain intothe main fuse tank and top it off. As long as the
aircraft was in straightand level flight it should flow nicely..... BUT
there would still be theissue of the fuel coming out of the vents during
uncoordinated flight whenthe tanks were full.sounds like a good idea on
the surface, but more thinking shows it to be notso good.----- Original
Message ----- From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>To:
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 6:50
AMSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? --> Pietenpol-List
message posted by: BARNSTMR(at)aol.comDJ wrote"I was once considering small
3" round tubes about 6' long to be put in the leading edge of each
wing. I forget how many gallons it would hold butenough to extend the
range at least another hour or so." Don wrote"Fascinating idea. These
tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons
each."----------------------------This does sound interesting.... Some
items to consider...- In-flight yaw forces would tend to work against
gravity. This could be dealt with by using flapper-type check
valves... but then you'd have to fillthe tube from the wing tip end. -
The weight (27 lb.) would be ahead of CG.- Leading edge is fairly
susceptible to hangar rash or other un-intended obstructions. - Wing
bending flexure should be considered in the design.-- Terry L. Bowdenph
254-715-4773fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
Greg Bacon,
Nice to see you on the list.
Care to tell us about your project?
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Bacon" <gbacon67(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank
option?
Bacon
>
> Bill,
>
> I met a gentleman at Brodhead this year
with a 3 ft center section. I
> believe his name is Bill Rewey (that's a
phonetic spelling on his last
> name). His wider center section adds 1 ft
of wing span and allows for a
> larger fuel tank, I think. He sells an
information pack with helpful build
> tips. His "Sub Hunting" piet is very well
done.
>
> Can someone get Mr. Rewey's (sp?) contact
information to Mr. Church?
>
> Greg Bacon
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Church"
> To: "Pietenpol List (E-mail)"
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 11:59 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
>
>
> > Since I don't have any wood to cut yet, I
have time to think about other
> > things, and one of the things I was
thinking about was the wing tank.
> > Specifically, I was wondering about ways
to increase the capacity of the
> > wing tank. Nine or ten gallons just seems
a bit small, and if it could be
> > increased, there wouldn't be the concerns
about shifting CG with a nose
> > tank, as flight progresses (and the need
for elevator trim,etc). I really
> > would like to have some space to stow
junk, and don't want to use the wing
> > and the nose for fuel. So... One thought
I had was to incorporate a wing
> > tank similar to the style used on the old
deHavilland Moths (pic
> attached).
> > I would think the tank capacity could be
doubled (I know, I know it would
> > look different). What I have no idea
about is how such a change might
> affect
> > the flight of the plane. Any ideas?
> > A second idea I had (two in one day, not
bad!) was to make two tanks,
> which
> > could be interchanged. A smaller tank
like the plans, for short joyrides,
> > and a larger "moth style" tank for
cross-country flights. This may present
> > more problems than it's worth. I don't
profess to know anything about the
> > installation of fuel tanks. Maybe one of
you out there could share your
> > expertise or opinion. please don't jump
all over me for suggesting a
> change.
> > It's just a thought.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > <>
> >
>
>
=============================
Forum -
through the Contributions
banner ads or any other
Matronics Forums.
>
=============================
http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
=============================
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/subscription
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/search
http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
http://www.matronics.com/chat
http://www.matronics.com/archives
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
http://www.matronics.com/pietenpol-list
http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
=============================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cont Engine mount bolts |
In a message dated 9/17/04 1:27:49 PM Central Daylight Time, BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
writes:
<< What's the size (diameter and length) of the engine mount bolts used to
mount an A65 continental using the continental engine mount per plans? >>
Terry,
The plans call out 7/16" engine mount bolts. The Yard store had 7/16" bolts
with a 3 3/8" shank length, and a hole in the threaded end. They had about a
Zillion of them. Buy 'em by the pound.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings,
connecting the controls and installing the fairings in
preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the Howard
Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the
procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to the
time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO. Joe
Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for me.
Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by posting
this. You folks can work on this for about a week and
then it is "go" time.
Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and
fairings. Connect controls.
Check oil
Check fuel quality and quantity
Check coolant
Check tire pressures
Check controls
Start engine and warm up, check guages
After warm up, do static power test
Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear
Cross fingers and take off
Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns
Return to pattern for first landing
Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare
That is all I have come up with. It is different that
the checklist I use with my Bonanza .
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
Might want to get some dual and time in a J-3 Cub. If you don't have a tail
wheel endorsement, now's the time. I presume you are "grandfathered." But
if you don't have any recent tailwheel time, you still need to get the
cobwebs off before you ruin your new toy!
BTW Make sure the controls are hooked up correctly.
Cy Galley
Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure
>
>
> Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings,
> connecting the controls and installing the fairings in
> preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the Howard
> Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the
> procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to the
> time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO. Joe
> Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for me.
>
> Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by posting
> this. You folks can work on this for about a week and
> then it is "go" time.
>
> Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and
> fairings. Connect controls.
> Check oil
> Check fuel quality and quantity
> Check coolant
> Check tire pressures
> Check controls
> Start engine and warm up, check guages
> After warm up, do static power test
> Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear
> Cross fingers and take off
> Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns
> Return to pattern for first landing
> Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare
>
> That is all I have come up with. It is different that
> the checklist I use with my Bonanza .
>
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
this brings up a question I've had. I have no J-3 time but I have about 40
hours in a SuperCub and about 5 hours in a T-Craft.
I feel very comfortable in both aircraft. I fly the Supercub on a bi-weekly
basis and will continue to do so until the day of my first flight in my
Aircamper.
Will I make the transition easily?? I certainly understand that a SuperCub
is not a Piet..... Or maybe I should get some time in a Champ?? there's a
Champ on the field that rents for $58/hr. I'd prefer not to 'cause I'm
checked out in the SuperCub and it's easier for me to just fly that.
Some opinions from qualified Aircamper pilots please :)
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure
>
> Might want to get some dual and time in a J-3 Cub. If you don't have a
tail
> wheel endorsement, now's the time. I presume you are "grandfathered." But
> if you don't have any recent tailwheel time, you still need to get the
> cobwebs off before you ruin your new toy!
>
> BTW Make sure the controls are hooked up correctly.
>
> Cy Galley
> Safety Programs Editor
> Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure
>
>
> >
> >
> > Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings,
> > connecting the controls and installing the fairings in
> > preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the Howard
> > Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the
> > procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to the
> > time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO. Joe
> > Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for me.
> >
> > Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by posting
> > this. You folks can work on this for about a week and
> > then it is "go" time.
> >
> > Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and
> > fairings. Connect controls.
> > Check oil
> > Check fuel quality and quantity
> > Check coolant
> > Check tire pressures
> > Check controls
> > Start engine and warm up, check guages
> > After warm up, do static power test
> > Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear
> > Cross fingers and take off
> > Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns
> > Return to pattern for first landing
> > Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare
> >
> > That is all I have come up with. It is different that
> > the checklist I use with my Bonanza .
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Larry Nelson
> > Springfield, MO
> > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > SV/ Spirit of America
> > ARS WB0JOT
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Looking for Red Betsy |
As someone else sent, you can go to www.redbetsy.com. My gut tells me based on the 2003 release date that the movie went from out of the "can" and right back into another "can". I checked on Amazon and eBay and nothing there. Too bad, I would have liked to have seen it. Usually I like what the critics hate.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Davis
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 7:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Red Betsy
Did anyone actually see the movie Red Besty about a family and a Pietenpol? It
was never released here and I can't find a copy anywhere. Any help?
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
In a message dated 9/17/04 9:50:01 PM Central Daylight Time,
lnelson208(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings,
connecting the controls and installing the fairings in
preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the Howard
Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the
procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to the
time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO. Joe
Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for me.
Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by posting
this. You folks can work on this for about a week and
then it is "go" time.
Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and
fairings. Connect controls.
Check oil
Check fuel quality and quantity
Check coolant
Check tire pressures
Check controls
Start engine and warm up, check guages
After warm up, do static power test
Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear
Cross fingers and take off
Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns
Return to pattern for first landing
Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare
That is all I have come up with. It is different that
the checklist I use with my Bonanza . >>
After assembly is complete, and before any of the turnbuckles are
secured, you need to check symmetry, with a 4 foot level, and the tail up in the
level attitude. Then, re-check everything, including every safety wire and cotter
pin. You also need to pull every inspection cover, and do a thorough
inspection with a mirror, and bright flashlight. Before you add fuel for engine
runs, put it on the scales, and check Weight & Balance for all loading
configurations. Do not trust any previous weight & balance. Do your own, and
see if it
agrees with theirs. Fuel it up a gallon at a time, and make a dip stick to
mark each gallon added, and check for leaks at each step. Do a series of engine
runs over several days, to allow the engine to cool down to ambient temp.
After each engine run, check for fuel, coolant and oil leaks. It's a great
moral booster to have folks come by and say "WOW !! What a great looking plane
!!", but what you really need is to have someone else do a post assembly
inspection. You need to do two or three post assembly inspections, but what you
need
is someone else, who is familiar with this type of construction, to do a
thorough post assembly inspection, in addition to your own.
If you didn't remove the prop, you need to remove the safety wire, and
re-check the prop torque. Break each prop bolt loose, by backing them off about
a half turn, then re-set the torque.
The most common cause for engine failure is a problem in the fuel system.
Before you fly, recheck the gascolator, as well as the fuel bowl for dirt,
bugs, and debris. You've had fuel fittings apart, so odds are there is dirt in
the fuel system. Tie the plane down, put the main gear up on blocks, and do
a sustained full power engine run, with the tail Way down low. This will
sumulate a maximum angle of attack, full power climb rate. Check engine run at
a
lower power setting with the tail way up in the air, to simulate a steep
decent rate.
There will come a time when you are out of excuses, and it's pucker time.
The weather needs to be near perfect, but a very light breeze right down the
runway isn't too bad. This is a very low power airplane, so you must fly it
that way. Say a little prayer, bleed in full power, keep 'er straight down
the runway, hold a little forward stick till the tail comes up, then slowly
relieve the forward pressure as you come up on the mains. One more check for oil
pressure, and coolant temp, as you will pass thru 40 mph. With light back
pressure, the wing will take on the weight, and let 'er fly off. The rumble of
the earth goes away, and your flying !! YEEE HAAAAWWW !! Carefully choose
the area where you will climb out at about 200 fpm, and go to for some gentle
turns. Be in an area where you can land at any time. You must assume the
engine IS going to quit. Emergency landings need to be done straight ahead. You
loose A LOT of altitude if you try to turn to a new heading, especially if
you're a Dead Stick.
If at all possible, land on the grass. When you return to the pattern, a
wheels landing should be your first landing. Cross the fence at 55 to 60
mph, if you can depend on the airspeed indicator being accurate. Gently feel for
the throttle stop, then keep just a little bit of power in through the
roundout. Pull all the power out after the mains are on the ground, and you are
under control. Don't be shy about adding full power and initiate a go around,
just keep the nose down...DO NOT pull the nose up for a go around. When you add
full power for a go around, the nose will come up on it's own, and just keep
a glancing eye on that airspeed indicator.
Have fun, and Good luck !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
In a message dated 9/17/04 10:33:46 PM Central Daylight Time, djv(at)imagedv.com
writes:
<< Will I make the transition easily?? I certainly understand that a SuperCub
is not a Piet..... Or maybe I should get some time in a Champ?? there's a
Champ on the field that rents for $58/hr. I'd prefer not to 'cause I'm
checked out in the SuperCub and it's easier for me to just fly that. >>
DJ,
I think you will make the transition pretty easily. It would probably be
good to get some time in the Champ, though. It's nice to have that stuff in your
log book. The Pietenpol list have watched you build your ship, and we're all
anxiously awaiting your first flight !!
Chucki
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for Red Betsy |
If you go to this site, as I said, you can see the theaters that it it playing
at now, as we speak.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Red Betsy
Go here for the website,,,
http://www.redbetsy.com/start.html
you can follow the show times. Seems that it started locally near Wis. and is
creeping around the country. Hopefully it will get everywhere.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Davis
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 11:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Red Betsy
Did anyone actually see the movie Red Besty about a family and a Pietenpol?
It was never released here and I can't find a copy anywhere. Any help?
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
Cy, I got in a Cub for the first time this past week
in preparation for climbing in the Pietenpol. It was
at a grass strip with obstructions along the entire
length and and each end (trees). I was not familiar
with the airport, and I had never even SAT in a Cub,
as all of my tailwheel time is in Champs. Without
going into everything, I was quite satisfied with my
airwork and landings in this 1939 Franklin powered Cub
(actually started it's life as an L1?). The CFI told
me I will have no problems with the Pietenpol. (How's
THAT for pressure?)
--- cgalley wrote:
>
>
> Might want to get some dual and time in a J-3 Cub.
> If you don't have a tail
> wheel endorsement, now's the time. I presume you
> are "grandfathered." But
> if you don't have any recent tailwheel time, you
> still need to get the
> cobwebs off before you ruin your new toy!
>
> BTW Make sure the controls are hooked up correctly.
>
> Cy Galley
> Safety Programs Editor
> Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport
> Pilot
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings,
> > connecting the controls and installing the
> fairings in
> > preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the
> Howard
> > Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the
> > procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to
> the
> > time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO.
> Joe
> > Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for
> me.
> >
> > Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by
> posting
> > this. You folks can work on this for about a week
> and
> > then it is "go" time.
> >
> > Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and
> > fairings. Connect controls.
> > Check oil
> > Check fuel quality and quantity
> > Check coolant
> > Check tire pressures
> > Check controls
> > Start engine and warm up, check guages
> > After warm up, do static power test
> > Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear
> > Cross fingers and take off
> > Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns
> > Return to pattern for first landing
> > Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare
> >
> > That is all I have come up with. It is different
> that
> > the checklist I use with my Bonanza .
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Larry Nelson
> > Springfield, MO
> > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > SV/ Spirit of America
> > ARS WB0JOT
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> finish.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
Great!
Look over the terrain while flying your Cub. Pick out emergency fields
before your have a problem. Hopefully you will never need them.
Then go buy a pair of Kevlar flying gloves. With these that the military
always flies with you can touch and grasp thing that you can't handle bare
handed.
Get your self a small voice recorder that has mic input. Plug in a bud type
earphone and tuck it under your headset ear piece. This then will record
every thing you say so you don't need to write anything down. You can record
temps, pressures, speeds, procedures, etc. When you get back on the ground,
then you can debrief.
Cy Galley
Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure
>
> Cy, I got in a Cub for the first time this past week
> in preparation for climbing in the Pietenpol. It was
> at a grass strip with obstructions along the entire
> length and and each end (trees). I was not familiar
> with the airport, and I had never even SAT in a Cub,
> as all of my tailwheel time is in Champs. Without
> going into everything, I was quite satisfied with my
> airwork and landings in this 1939 Franklin powered Cub
> (actually started it's life as an L1?). The CFI told
> me I will have no problems with the Pietenpol. (How's
> THAT for pressure?)
>
>
> --- cgalley wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Might want to get some dual and time in a J-3 Cub.
> > If you don't have a tail
> > wheel endorsement, now's the time. I presume you
> > are "grandfathered." But
> > if you don't have any recent tailwheel time, you
> > still need to get the
> > cobwebs off before you ruin your new toy!
> >
> > BTW Make sure the controls are hooked up correctly.
> >
> > Cy Galley
> > Safety Programs Editor
> > Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport
> > Pilot
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings,
> > > connecting the controls and installing the
> > fairings in
> > > preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the
> > Howard
> > > Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the
> > > procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to
> > the
> > > time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO.
> > Joe
> > > Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for
> > me.
> > >
> > > Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by
> > posting
> > > this. You folks can work on this for about a week
> > and
> > > then it is "go" time.
> > >
> > > Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and
> > > fairings. Connect controls.
> > > Check oil
> > > Check fuel quality and quantity
> > > Check coolant
> > > Check tire pressures
> > > Check controls
> > > Start engine and warm up, check guages
> > > After warm up, do static power test
> > > Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear
> > > Cross fingers and take off
> > > Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns
> > > Return to pattern for first landing
> > > Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare
> > >
> > > That is all I have come up with. It is different
> > that
> > > the checklist I use with my Bonanza .
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Larry Nelson
> > > Springfield, MO
> > > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> > > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > > SV/ Spirit of America
> > > ARS WB0JOT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > finish.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/chat
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
<039b01c49cc2$152ac710$9043040a@Notebook1> <004801c49d18$f08f0fe0$edf61e41@ATO>
Hi Greg,
Sure. I'm the proud new owner of John Dilatush's beautiful Mountain Piet.
My brother and I picked it up at the airport in Jefferson, IA last weekend.
Attached is a picture of the load. It only took 3 hours to get it packed up
safe and sound for the 7 hour drive. It fared well on the trip. My goal is
to rebuild the left wing panel and get it flying again soon. John is
helping me to ensure the materials are the same as he used. My only concern
is being able to build on par with John's quality. His workmanship is
phenomonal.
I'll keep you posted on the progress. It may be slow go for a while as we
are in the process of building our dream house. As you know we have two
daughters, a two and a half year old and a three month old, so most of the
wing work will probably be done after they go to bed!
Greg Bacon
----- Original Message -----
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
>
> Greg Bacon,
>
> Nice to see you on the list.
> Care to tell us about your project?
>
> Greg Cardinal
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg Bacon" <gbacon67(at)direcway.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:24 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank
> option?
>
>
> Bacon
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > I met a gentleman at Brodhead this year
> with a 3 ft center section. I
> > believe his name is Bill Rewey (that's a
> phonetic spelling on his last
> > name). His wider center section adds 1 ft
> of wing span and allows for a
> > larger fuel tank, I think. He sells an
> information pack with helpful build
> > tips. His "Sub Hunting" piet is very well
> done.
> >
> > Can someone get Mr. Rewey's (sp?) contact
> information to Mr. Church?
> >
> > Greg Bacon
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Church"
>
> > To: "Pietenpol List (E-mail)"
>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 11:59 AM
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
> >
> >
> > > Since I don't have any wood to cut yet, I
> have time to think about other
> > > things, and one of the things I was
> thinking about was the wing tank.
> > > Specifically, I was wondering about ways
> to increase the capacity of the
> > > wing tank. Nine or ten gallons just seems
> a bit small, and if it could be
> > > increased, there wouldn't be the concerns
> about shifting CG with a nose
> > > tank, as flight progresses (and the need
> for elevator trim,etc). I really
> > > would like to have some space to stow
> junk, and don't want to use the wing
> > > and the nose for fuel. So... One thought
> I had was to incorporate a wing
> > > tank similar to the style used on the old
> deHavilland Moths (pic
> > attached).
> > > I would think the tank capacity could be
> doubled (I know, I know it would
> > > look different). What I have no idea
> about is how such a change might
> > affect
> > > the flight of the plane. Any ideas?
> > > A second idea I had (two in one day, not
> bad!) was to make two tanks,
> > which
> > > could be interchanged. A smaller tank
> like the plans, for short joyrides,
> > > and a larger "moth style" tank for
> cross-country flights. This may present
> > > more problems than it's worth. I don't
> profess to know anything about the
> > > installation of fuel tanks. Maybe one of
> you out there could share your
> > > expertise or opinion. please don't jump
> all over me for suggesting a
> > change.
> > > It's just a thought.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > <>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> =============================
> Forum -
> through the Contributions
> banner ads or any other
> Matronics Forums.
> >
> =============================
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
> >
> =============================
> pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> =============================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
gotta share a funny story that happened to me today while working on N74DV.
I had to do some final gusset welding to the engine mount. I pulled the
mount off the plane, set it on the ground and fired up the gas torch.
Started welding up the gussets and all is going well. I got the tip a
little too close to the work and get that "Crack/Pop". Usually when that
happens a few small beads of molten metal go flying... no biggie just keep
welding.
Well... you see, today here in Arizona it's a nice chilly 103. So as usual
I'm working in my shorts and Tshirt. anyways...like I say, I got the tip a
little too close and got the "pop"..... molten metal fragments shoot off
from the puddle hit the floor, bounce up and proceed directly up my shorts
where I am instantly made aware of their presence by a great burning
sensation on a part of the body used commonly in adult jokes.
I instantly stand up and start doing a dance that even the local Pima
Indians here would stare at in amazement. The dance included random and
violent hand and arm movements near the crotch.... sort of the "hot potato"
look to it.
This lasts about 5 seconds after which the molten metal assailants have
cooled...... then I started laughing my ass off. I could never get that to
happen again if I tried a thousand times.
so.... I guess the moral of the story would be to wear leather briefs when
welding in shorts...... hmmm leather briefs??? I've only seen those with
metal studs and rings through them... better not go there.
DJ
_
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Extra Fuel Tanks |
Hi Guys,
I am new to the list but have been reading the archives for several weeks now and
want to join in on the discussions. I hope I am doing this right as I am not
anywhere close to being competent on the computer. My name is Galen Hutcheson,
but my flying buddies all call me "Doc." I am now retired and am building
my first airplane...a (hopefully) Ford Model A powered aircamper. I have several
ribs completed and am working on the right fuselage half. I just framed
in my design for a small door today. I have flown for over thirty years the
last ten years or so commercially. I have owned many aircraft to include two
Pitts Specials (one I flew airshows professionally in), two antique biplanes one
a 1929 Kinner Bird and the other a 1930 Waco KNF. Both of which I barnstormed
across the country in (I barnstormed around four years ranging from northern
Wisconsis to the southern regions of Florida depending on the seasons...and
yes, I did a lot of sleeping under the wing). I own
ed a
1947 Aeronica L-16A that I towed banners with, a PT-2, a 1940 Porterfield LP-65
and let's see...an ultralite and a gyro copter. I forgot to mention the 1979
Decathalon I taught acro in for awhile.
I am looking forward to building this Piet and want to equip it with a Ford engine.
I would like to buy one ready to fly or a core engine with info (ie. mechanic)
on how to get the engine converted. Any help would be appreciated.
Now to the origional question about multiple fuel tanks. My L-16 had the usual
13 gal tank in the nose and I later installed two wing tanks (each held 5 gal
of fuel). The wing tanks gravity fed unto the main fuselage tank and were fed
via stop cock valves located in the cockpit (similar to what Lindberg used in
the Spirit of St. Louis). This system worked fine, except sometimes you had
to do some unusal attitude flying to get the fuel to drain down but not a real
problem. This system nearly doubled my fuel capicity and I would do it again.
Hope this is of some help and I am going to enjoy this new family of Piet
builders.
Galen (Doc) Hutcheson
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pilots4ETW(at)wmconnect.com |
Hey, last year I was welding on the corner posts here on my farm. I have a
big trailer with a generator and a couple of MIG welders. Dressed up in leather
gloves, long denim shirt. denim jeans and it's in the middle of the summer.
Not as bad as Mesa, but humid.
I'm welding and sparks are flying everywhere. I also carry a large tank of
water and a spray rig to soak down the grass around the area I'm welding, as not
to start a range-fire out here on the prairie.
I'm welding and I feel the sparks eating me alive on the back of my neck. Not
to worry, this has happened before, but in a few seconds, the welding sparks
are biting through my denim pants, my denim shirt, into my crotch, through my
socks. What the HAY? I stop welding, pull my auto-darkening helmet and GAWD,
Yellow Jacket WASPS are swarming everywhere and they are PISSED OFF. It seems I
was welding a 6 inch open frame pipe they had lovingly built several nests
in, and they were not happy I was screwing up the neighborhood.
After about being stung 50 times, I was hauled to the hospital to get an
auto-injection of some kind of drug, then something else to reduce my elevated
blood pressure.
Now, in addition to hauling a large trailer stocked with water, welding
gear, safety equipment... I keep a can of wasp spray and I look very carefully
where I'm about to weld.
Don't have time to write about dodging rattlesnakes around the fence line,
but have stories about those too.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CraigAlanCarter(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Continental Engine Mount Bolts |
Regarding the bolt A65 bolt diameter, it was my understanding that the plans
were in error and the bolt should be 3/8" instead of 7/16". I think I have in
the archives stating that some have had problems because of this. I have some
detailed drawings of the engine from Continental and it would appear that the
bolt is 3/8". Please let me know if I am wrong because I have just finished
building a steel motor mount jig and will start fitting the tubes in a couple of
days. Buying the bolts will be my last step to make sure I have the right
length.
Craig Carter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental Engine Mount Bolts |
My Continental Manual says that it is a 3/8" bolt, page 14 upper left hand corner
of the drawing.
Cy Galley - Aeronca Aviators Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.aeronca.org
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
----- Original Message -----
From: CraigAlanCarter(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 8:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental Engine Mount Bolts
Regarding the bolt A65 bolt diameter, it was my understanding that the plans
were in error and the bolt should be 3/8" instead of 7/16". I think I have in
the archives stating that some have had problems because of this. I have some
detailed drawings of the engine from Continental and it would appear that the
bolt is 3/8". Please let me know if I am wrong because I have just finished building
a steel motor mount jig and will start fitting the tubes in a couple of
days. Buying the bolts will be my last step to make sure I have the right length.
Craig Carter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental Engine Mount Bolts |
It is also 3/8" as shown on p 19 of the C-75, C-85 manual. Same rubber bushing,
Same part number.
Cy Galley - Aeronca Aviators Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.aeronca.org
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
----- Original Message -----
From: CraigAlanCarter(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 8:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental Engine Mount Bolts
Regarding the bolt A65 bolt diameter, it was my understanding that the plans
were in error and the bolt should be 3/8" instead of 7/16". I think I have in
the archives stating that some have had problems because of this. I have some
detailed drawings of the engine from Continental and it would appear that the
bolt is 3/8". Please let me know if I am wrong because I have just finished building
a steel motor mount jig and will start fitting the tubes in a couple of
days. Buying the bolts will be my last step to make sure I have the right length.
Craig Carter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Continental Engine Mount Bolts |
I just re-checked the plans.... they say to "Ream for 7/16 dia. bolt".
BUT.... my Continental Maintenance and overhaul manual calls for 3/8" diameter
bolts. ALSO... I just went out to the shop and was looking at my A75 engine
which is still bolted to a taylorcraft engine mount. It has 3/8" diameter bolts.
I think the rubber cone bushings that you buy from parts houses would surely
be the same no matter what airplane. I am going to purchase 3/8" bolts. And,
I am making a note on my plans to change the bolt boss I.D. to 3/8".
For the shank length I am adding the 1.5" plans dimension of the mount boss
to the 1 and 19/32" dimension of the aluminum casting on the engine and another
9/32" for the large washer on the nut end. (These #s come from my
Continental maintenance and overhaul manual.) This totals........... 3.375" for
shank
length. So Chuck's shank length is correct.
SUMMARY:
bolt DIA = 3/8
bolt shank length 3 and 3/8 inch
While were on the subject... The bolts I am going to buy for the engine
mount-to-firewall bracket should be 5/16" DIA and...1 and 7/16" shank length.
Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Wounded Piet to be healed! |
Pieters,
I am pleased to inform members of this list that Greg Bacon has purchased "Mountain
Piet" and will restore the plane to it's former good health.
He will gently and carefully build a new left wing panel interspersed with the
chores of building a new home, caring for a growing family, and maintaining a
good relationship with his wife.
Greg has already discovered the reason for the unplaned landing, (the connection
between the turbo and throttle body blew apart) and is taking steps to insure
that it will not happen again.
I still consider myself as a Pietenpol enthusiast and plan to continue monitoring
the list and might enter such discussions as would be helpful.
"Mountain Piet" has truly found a competent loving and caring owner with Greg Bacon!
John Dilatush
Salida, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Continental Engine Mount Bolts |
In a message dated 9/18/04 11:55:51 PM Central Daylight Time,
BARNSTMR(at)aol.com writes:
<< I just re-checked the plans.... they say to "Ream for 7/16 dia. bolt".
BUT.... my Continental Maintenance and overhaul manual calls for 3/8"
diameter
bolts. ALSO... I just went out to the shop and was looking at my A75 engine
which is still bolted to a taylorcraft engine mount. It has 3/8" diameter
bolts.
I think the rubber cone bushings that you buy from parts houses would surely
be the same no matter what airplane. I am going to purchase 3/8" bolts.
And,
I am making a note on my plans to change the bolt boss I.D. to 3/8".
For the shank length I am adding the 1.5" plans dimension of the mount boss
to the 1 and 19/32" dimension of the aluminum casting on the engine and
another
9/32" for the large washer on the nut end. (These #s come from my
Continental maintenance and overhaul manual.) This totals........... 3.375"
for shank
length. So Chuck's shank length is correct.
SUMMARY:
bolt DIA = 3/8
bolt shank length 3 and 3/8 inch
While were on the subject... The bolts I am going to buy for the engine
mount-to-firewall bracket should be 5/16" DIA and...1 and 7/16" shank length.
Terry >>
The plans Do say "Ream for 7/16" dia. bolt". The bushings I bought from AS&S
probably were for 3/8" bolts, but 7/16" bolts did go through them without
much effort. The engine mount washers washers from AS&S fit the 7/16" bolts
perfectly. These washers are about 1/8" thick. I used 7/16" bolts.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
Larry..Best wishes to you and to 444MH. Does 444MH still have the light-and-
dark wood laminated prop? Some time ago, there was an article on the making
of that prop written by Grant McLauren. I've emailed Grant, asking if he
remembers where and/or when it was published...no response. Does anyone out
there remember the article? can you refer me to the source??? Carl Vought
wrote :
>
>
> Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings,
> connecting the controls and installing the fairings in
> preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the Howard
> Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the
> procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to the
> time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO. Joe
> Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for me.
>
> Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by posting
> this. You folks can work on this for about a week and
> then it is "go" time.
>
> Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and
> fairings. Connect controls.
> Check oil
> Check fuel quality and quantity
> Check coolant
> Check tire pressures
> Check controls
> Start engine and warm up, check guages
> After warm up, do static power test
> Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear
> Cross fingers and take off
> Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns
> Return to pattern for first landing
> Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare
>
> That is all I have come up with. It is different that
> the checklist I use with my Bonanza .
>
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Extra Fuel Tanks |
Hi Galen...If I were in your shoes, I would contact Ken Perkins. He knows
an awful lot about the A engine and not only that, he manufactures parts
for the engine and airplane. Carl Vought
wrote :
>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I am new to the list but have been reading the archives for several weeks
now and want to join in on the discussions. I hope I am doing this right
as I am not anywhere close to being competent on the computer. My name is
Galen Hutcheson, but my flying buddies all call me "Doc." I am now retired
and am building my first airplane...a (hopefully) Ford Model A powered
aircamper. I have several ribs completed and am working on the right
fuselage half. I just framed in my design for a small door today. I have
flown for over thirty years the last ten years or so commercially. I have
owned many aircraft to include two Pitts Specials (one I flew airshows
professionally in), two antique biplanes one a 1929 Kinner Bird and the
other a 1930 Waco KNF. Both of which I barnstormed across the country in
(I barnstormed around four years ranging from northern Wisconsis to the
southern regions of Florida depending on the seasons...and yes, I did a lot
of sleeping under the wing). I own
> ed a
> 1947 Aeronica L-16A that I towed banners with, a PT-2, a 1940
Porterfield LP-65 and let's see...an ultralite and a gyro copter. I forgot
to mention the 1979 Decathalon I taught acro in for awhile.
>
> I am looking forward to building this Piet and want to equip it with a
Ford engine. I would like to buy one ready to fly or a core engine with
info (ie. mechanic) on how to get the engine converted. Any help would be
appreciated.
>
> Now to the origional question about multiple fuel tanks. My L-16 had the
usual 13 gal tank in the nose and I later installed two wing tanks (each
held 5 gal of fuel). The wing tanks gravity fed unto the main fuselage
tank and were fed via stop cock valves located in the cockpit (similar to
what Lindberg used in the Spirit of St. Louis). This system worked fine,
except sometimes you had to do some unusal attitude flying to get the fuel
to drain down but not a real problem. This system nearly doubled my fuel
capicity and I would do it again. Hope this is of some help and I am going
to enjoy this new family of Piet builders.
>
> Galen (Doc) Hutcheson
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
I have two props and they both match that description.
I have complete builders documents in Howards original
spiral notebooks. The construction and installation
and flight testing of the current prop is well
documented. I will give more information as I dig into
these books. (btw- both props are works of art).
--- "Carl D. Vought" wrote:
> Vought"
>
> Larry..Best wishes to you and to 444MH. Does 444MH
> still have the light-and-
> dark wood laminated prop? Some time ago, there was
> an article on the making
> of that prop written by Grant McLauren. I've emailed
> Grant, asking if he
> remembers where and/or when it was published...no
> response. Does anyone out
> there remember the article? can you refer me to the
> source??? Carl Vought
>
>
>
> Nelson
> wrote :
>
>
> >
> >
> > Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings,
> > connecting the controls and installing the
> fairings in
> > preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the
> Howard
> > Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the
> > procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to
> the
> > time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO.
> Joe
> > Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for
> me.
> >
> > Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by
> posting
> > this. You folks can work on this for about a week
> and
> > then it is "go" time.
> >
> > Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and
> > fairings. Connect controls.
> > Check oil
> > Check fuel quality and quantity
> > Check coolant
> > Check tire pressures
> > Check controls
> > Start engine and warm up, check guages
> > After warm up, do static power test
> > Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear
> > Cross fingers and take off
> > Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns
> > Return to pattern for first landing
> > Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare
> >
> > That is all I have come up with. It is different
> that
> > the checklist I use with my Bonanza .
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Larry Nelson
> > Springfield, MO
> > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > SV/ Spirit of America
> > ARS WB0JOT
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> finish.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
_______________________________
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
The man who gave the model A carburettor talk at Brodhead, Terry Oberer, has
a prop like that in his closet at Byrnes Mill, MO, he said Howard Henderson
made it. He, Grant McLaren and Howard Henderson are close friends. Terry
showed it to me when I was at his house a while back.
Dennis Engelkenjohn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure
>
> Larry..Best wishes to you and to 444MH. Does 444MH still have the
light-and-
> dark wood laminated prop? Some time ago, there was an article on the
making
> of that prop written by Grant McLauren. I've emailed Grant, asking if he
> remembers where and/or when it was published...no response. Does anyone
out
> there remember the article? can you refer me to the source??? Carl Vought
>
>
> wrote :
>
> >
> >
> > Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings,
> > connecting the controls and installing the fairings in
> > preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the Howard
> > Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the
> > procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to the
> > time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO. Joe
> > Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for me.
> >
> > Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by posting
> > this. You folks can work on this for about a week and
> > then it is "go" time.
> >
> > Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and
> > fairings. Connect controls.
> > Check oil
> > Check fuel quality and quantity
> > Check coolant
> > Check tire pressures
> > Check controls
> > Start engine and warm up, check guages
> > After warm up, do static power test
> > Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear
> > Cross fingers and take off
> > Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns
> > Return to pattern for first landing
> > Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare
> >
> > That is all I have come up with. It is different that
> > the checklist I use with my Bonanza .
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Larry Nelson
> > Springfield, MO
> > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > SV/ Spirit of America
> > ARS WB0JOT
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Question re: wing dihedral |
I'm in the process of rebuilding N-1033B, wrecked a couple years ago. Wings are
not BH's design, they're off of an Aeronca, no evidence of dihedral except for
possible adjustments to lift struts. For you old timer purest, zippin' around
with Model A's, did Bernie put any dihedral in his original wing design.
Did later design mods have anything other than a straight wing. Lastly, what's
the actual vs published stall speed on original designs.
Gordon Bowen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
Dennis, if you don't mind, email me your phone number.
--- Dennis Engelkenjohn wrote:
> Engelkenjohn"
>
> The man who gave the model A carburettor talk at
> Brodhead, Terry Oberer, has
> a prop like that in his closet at Byrnes Mill, MO,
> he said Howard Henderson
> made it. He, Grant McLaren and Howard Henderson are
> close friends. Terry
> showed it to me when I was at his house a while
> back.
> Dennis Engelkenjohn
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 3:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure
>
>
> Vought"
>
> >
> > Larry..Best wishes to you and to 444MH. Does 444MH
> still have the
> light-and-
> > dark wood laminated prop? Some time ago, there was
> an article on the
> making
> > of that prop written by Grant McLauren. I've
> emailed Grant, asking if he
> > remembers where and/or when it was published...no
> response. Does anyone
> out
> > there remember the article? can you refer me to
> the source??? Carl Vought
> >
> >
> >
> Nelson
> > wrote :
> >
> Nelson
>
> > >
> > >
> > > Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings,
> > > connecting the controls and installing the
> fairings in
> > > preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the
> Howard
> > > Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the
> > > procedure I will use. This plane was flying up
> to the
> > > time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO.
> Joe
> > > Santana flew it the day he took the wings off
> for me.
> > >
> > > Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by
> posting
> > > this. You folks can work on this for about a
> week and
> > > then it is "go" time.
> > >
> > > Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and
> > > fairings. Connect controls.
> > > Check oil
> > > Check fuel quality and quantity
> > > Check coolant
> > > Check tire pressures
> > > Check controls
> > > Start engine and warm up, check guages
> > > After warm up, do static power test
> > > Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear
> > > Cross fingers and take off
> > > Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns
> > > Return to pattern for first landing
> > > Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare
> > >
> > > That is all I have come up with. It is different
> that
> > > the checklist I use with my Bonanza .
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Larry Nelson
> > > Springfield, MO
> > > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> > > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > > SV/ Spirit of America
> > > ARS WB0JOT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> finish.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
_______________________________
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
Chuck,
I got the same thing when using the rubber antenna on the handheld. Is that
what you are using? When I hooked the handheld to a "real" antenna the
noise went away.
Ted Brousseau
In finally sunny SW Florida
> From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Handheld / GPS
>
>
> While we're on the subject of radios, I do have a problem with my GPS
> interfering with the headset. Whenever the GPS is turned on, it causes
noise over
> my
> headset, but no problem when recieving, or transmitting. I've tried
several
> different locations, but it's always there when the GPS is turned
on...very
> annoying. I can hold my hand on top of the GPS, and most of the noise
goes
> away. This lead me to try using alluminum foil over and around the GPS,
but it
>
> didn't reduce the noise at all. Any ideas ?
>
> Chuck G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAsAhRKl56zMusySg518co0OV4dTPSJ/wIUfjUK1XD7EI6Qm+j6EWScTgk4IQM=
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | first flight checklist |
Larry: Since the wings have been off, you might want to make sure that
the ailerons move the right direction with movement of the stick. They
sometimes get hooked up backwards. Leon S. Hutchinson, Ks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: first flight checklist |
Leon, I have that one on my list, not just the
ailerons but elevators and rudder.
Years ago, I rebuilt a Tri Pacer. It was one year from
the time I took the horizontal stabilizers off until
the time I put them back on. When you pull the
horizontal stabilizers off of a PA 22, the fitting
into which they are attached inside the tailcone
swings done on it's "axle". I forgot that fact and
hooked up the horizontal stabilizer into that fitting
while it was in it's "down" positition. With permision
from the highway patrol in Broken Bow Nebrasksa, I
taxied down the city streets to a highway and took off
for the short flight to the airport. I just could not
trim nose down after takeoff. (She leaped into the
air, and I had to hold "down" wheel
pressure.....bigtime.) I made an uneventful landing
(she flared herself ) and then looked at my
buddies Tripacer to see what had happened to mine. At
rest, the control wheels where WAY out of the panel,
right in your chest.
I ferried her to Grand Island for annual and started
removing panels, etc.....and a mechanic came over and
pointed out, without a blink, that my tail was way out
of whack, and all I had to do was demount the
horizontals and swing their "mount" UP where it
belonged. (The "mount" I am referring to is the trim
bellcrank.....at least that is what I call it.)
Ain't it funny how forgiving these birds are?
--- Leon Stefan wrote:
> lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
>
> Larry: Since the wings have been off, you might want
> to make sure that
> the ailerons move the right direction with movement
> of the stick. They
> sometimes get hooked up backwards. Leon S.
> Hutchinson, Ks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
_______________________________
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Handheld / GPS |
In a message dated 9/19/04 9:40:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
nfn00979(at)naples.net writes:
<< Chuck,
I got the same thing when using the rubber antenna on the handheld. Is that
what you are using? When I hooked the handheld to a "real" antenna the
noise went away.
Ted Brousseau
In finally sunny SW Florida >>
Ted,
Yes, I'm currently using the rubber antenna. That's very encouraging to know
that the noise went away when you hooked up a 'real' antenna !! I'll be
installing one very soon.
Chuck G.
Great to hear the sun is finally shinning in Florida !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Howard's prop was First Flight Procedure |
Howard gave a talk on prop carving at the 1st Brodhead I ever went to (in
'97) -- I got his drawings for his prop with cross sections & lamination
outlines. On his drawings, Howard calls out maple for the light lams &
walnut for the dark lams. -- (6) lams total -- starting from the hub
side,1st (2) lams are 3/4" thick, with the maple next to the hub. Next (3)
are 1/2" thick -- last lam. is 3/4". The drawings are layed out for 76" x
42", but he also had angles for 76" x 40".
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure
>
> The man who gave the model A carburetor talk at Brodhead, Terry Oberer,
has
> a prop like that in his closet at Byrnes Mill, MO, he said Howard
Henderson
> made it. He, Grant McLaren and Howard Henderson are close friends. Terry
> showed it to me when I was at his house a while back.
> Dennis Engelkenjohn
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 3:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure
>
>
>
> >
> > Larry..Best wishes to you and to 444MH. Does 444MH still have the
> light-and-
> > dark wood laminated prop? Some time ago, there was an article on the
> making
> > of that prop written by Grant McLauren. I've emailed Grant, asking if he
> > remembers where and/or when it was published...no response. Does anyone
> out
> > there remember the article? can you refer me to the source??? Carl
Vought
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Question re: wing dihedral |
In a message dated 9/19/04 8:11:03 PM Central Daylight Time,
gbowen(at)ptialaska.net writes:
<< For you old timer purest, zippin' around with Model A's, did Bernie put
any dihedral in his original wing design. Did later design mods have anything
other than a straight wing. Lastly, what's the actual vs published stall speed
on original designs. >>
Gordon,
I'm not exactly an old timer (I'm still under 50 yrs old), but I can tell you
that Bernard did not put any dihedral in the original wing, or any mods. The
plans clearly call out a straight wing. I believe he may have put just a
very tiny little bit of dihedral in the wing, just to avoid the optical illusion
- drooped wing tip look of a straight wing...but not for dihedral effect. You
have to really eyeball the wing to see it. I don't believe there is a
published stall speed, but the plans do call out 'Landing Speed - 40 mph.' Actual
stall speeds are slightly different for each ship...weight and rigging being
the determining factor, but usually about 30 to 35 mph. At such a high angle
of attack of the original airfoil, there is a LOT of induced drag, and it slows
down very quickly. It's like a big ol' parachute. On the other hand, it has
a LOT of lift, as long as you don't surpass the 'Critical Angle of Attack'.
Chuck G.
p.s. Does N1033B have a Model A engine ?
How old is an Old Timer ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: wing dihedral |
When I climbed into a Cub last week, I asked the CFI
for some speeds. He told me to just feel the plane
out, that speeds weren't important and I would not be
able to see the panel too well anyway. I guess I will
use the same plan on my first flight with A Powered
N444MH. I will tend toward the high side, and see how
she feels. She does not have an airspeed indicator,
just the spring loaded thingy on the strut, which may
or may not get included in my "scan"......
--- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/19/04 8:11:03 PM Central
> Daylight Time,
> gbowen(at)ptialaska.net writes:
>
> << For you old timer purest, zippin' around with
> Model A's, did Bernie put
> any dihedral in his original wing design. Did later
> design mods have anything
> other than a straight wing. Lastly, what's the
> actual vs published stall speed
> on original designs. >>
>
> Gordon,
> I'm not exactly an old timer (I'm still under 50 yrs
> old), but I can tell you
> that Bernard did not put any dihedral in the
> original wing, or any mods. The
> plans clearly call out a straight wing. I believe
> he may have put just a
> very tiny little bit of dihedral in the wing, just
> to avoid the optical illusion
> - drooped wing tip look of a straight wing...but not
> for dihedral effect. You
> have to really eyeball the wing to see it. I don't
> believe there is a
> published stall speed, but the plans do call out
> 'Landing Speed - 40 mph.' Actual
> stall speeds are slightly different for each
> ship...weight and rigging being
> the determining factor, but usually about 30 to 35
> mph. At such a high angle
> of attack of the original airfoil, there is a LOT of
> induced drag, and it slows
> down very quickly. It's like a big ol' parachute.
> On the other hand, it has
> a LOT of lift, as long as you don't surpass the
> 'Critical Angle of Attack'.
>
> Chuck G.
> p.s. Does N1033B have a Model A engine ?
> How old is an Old Timer ?
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | flying the airplane |
On a hot day when you have full power and a load of camping gear and full
fuel, the Pietenpol
can seem like an accident waiting to happen on climb-out if you get the
nose too high. Like somebody
posted here recently that after takeoff you lower the nose.
It's fun to play the "don't touch the throttle" game after you pull the
power back abeam of the numbers.
At some airports this is not possible because you might live at one of
these airports where there is faster
traffic and the guys fly big patterns. A "don't touch the throttle"
routine shows you what an engine-out glide
might be like if you had to perform one. The only thing I can advise
after a few hours behind the stick is that
you don't pick a landing site wayyy out there, but right under you. (or
there abouts)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: wing dihedral |
Chuck,
Thanks for your help. I've looked at a bunch of pictures of Piets, and it
was impossible to tell if the dihedral was put into the wings or just slight
adjustments to the lift struts. Ole Timers- are fully qualified at any age,
if purest at heart, wood, rag, model A. The guy I got this plane from was
the second owner, so he wasn't a purest or a builder, but he did fly the
bird over 1000 hours before going into a corn field in Missouri. He told me
he had flown to Brodhead one time and was kinda looked at funny because the
plane is metal tube fuselage, Aeronca wings, and Conti C-85 engine. I'm
going to stick with an 0-200 or smaller engine since the last one got badly
damaged. Seems someone forgot to secure one of the nuts holding on a
connecting rod, therefore threw the piston, wrecked the plane. Once again
thanks for your help.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question re: wing dihedral
>
> In a message dated 9/19/04 8:11:03 PM Central Daylight Time,
> gbowen(at)ptialaska.net writes:
>
> << For you old timer purest, zippin' around with Model A's, did Bernie put
> any dihedral in his original wing design. Did later design mods have
anything
> other than a straight wing. Lastly, what's the actual vs published stall
speed
> on original designs. >>
>
> Gordon,
> I'm not exactly an old timer (I'm still under 50 yrs old), but I can tell
you
> that Bernard did not put any dihedral in the original wing, or any mods.
The
> plans clearly call out a straight wing. I believe he may have put just a
> very tiny little bit of dihedral in the wing, just to avoid the optical
illusion
> - drooped wing tip look of a straight wing...but not for dihedral effect.
You
> have to really eyeball the wing to see it. I don't believe there is a
> published stall speed, but the plans do call out 'Landing Speed - 40 mph.'
Actual
> stall speeds are slightly different for each ship...weight and rigging
being
> the determining factor, but usually about 30 to 35 mph. At such a high
angle
> of attack of the original airfoil, there is a LOT of induced drag, and it
slows
> down very quickly. It's like a big ol' parachute. On the other hand, it
has
> a LOT of lift, as long as you don't surpass the 'Critical Angle of
Attack'.
>
> Chuck G.
> p.s. Does N1033B have a Model A engine ?
> How old is an Old Timer ?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mike(at)mking.us> |
| Subject: | Under Seat Storage |
Terry,
Under my rear (airplane) seat, I keep my ELT, portable tie downs,
oil, spare batteries (for the radio & gps) and a few other small
items.
The rear seat is on a removable piece of wood and fits over two
plastic trays that contain the above items.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Under Seat Storage
I exchanged some emails with Jim Markle yesterday at work after I
saw a picture of his pilot's seat with a hinged bottom. (They
should have never given me internet at work.) He got me thinking
about using this space for cargo. I had already been wanting to
beef up the seat structure anyway because I thought the original
builder had made it too light. I thought about it all day
yesterday and even during my son's 7th grade "away" football game
last nite. We got home at 11pm. I had been dying to look over
my seat structure all day. So I went out to the shop to study
how I might design something there. This led to poster board
mock up work. Before I knew it....the clock said 3am. I am
excited to report that I have come up with a neat little sheet
metal compartment design. There's actually more space down there
than I expected. You could certainly keep a quart or two of oil,
some rags, fuel strainer, etc... down there. And I accomplished a
light weight beef up in the p!
rocess. I am paying close attention to protecting elev. and
rudder cables. I plan to work on it some this weekend. I'll try
to post pictures soon.
I am on a roll...streak of 7 evenings in a row working on the
Piet. One of them a VERY late-nighter. I am draggin at work
today... needing a nap big time.
:)
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
=========
=========
=========
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Any News fro Corky? |
Thanks Gary for your kind interest.
My bride and I have not experienced a single raindrop since August. I planted
some satsuma, lemon, naval oranges and rio red grapefruit trees on the 4th of
August. Have had two light rains since planting and am hand watering. They
are beginning to sprout some new growth and blossoms.
Have spent the remainder of the summer on Repiet. Have accomplished more than
projected. It's on the gear with the centersection almost completed. Am
building a cutout this time instead of the flop in order to get to the baggage
compartment in the c/s ala Mike Cuy. It weighs in about 152 lbs with wheels,
tires, fuel tank, tail wheel, cabanes and c/s and controls. No above longerons
wood
as yet.
BTW, since the Sport Pilot deal is in, and one could fly into your country if
he had permission from that country to enter, might just convince ole Chuck
Gantzer to fly along with me for a friendly south of the border trip if we were
accorded an invitation. How high are those hills?
Corky and his bride in Louisiana enjoying a most beautiful day
PS My computer took a 3 week break until Sat night.Was full of bugs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | 4130 source? Building motormount soon. |
I'm ready to build a motormount for a Continental A-80 engine. I was about to
order on-line from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co. In attempting to order 3/4
inch X .060 wall thickness, Aircraft Spruce doesn't offer this size.
I also need about 10 feet of 5/8 X .066. (I'm using a motormount jig that
Chuck G. loaned me and I'd like to follow his design to the letter ... including
tube sizes & thickness)
Can anyone suggest a good on-line source for 4130?
I think a 20 foot stick of 3/4 X .060 will suffice and provide excess
material for practice and a couple of other small pieces I need for something else.
Thanks
Sterling
Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 4130 source? Building motormount soon. |
my mount for my Corvair, which weighs about 235lb ready to fly is made from 3/4"
.049 wall. I see no reason why an A-80 mount couldn't be made from the same.
AS&S has lots of 3/4 .049
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 4:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 4130 source? Building motormount soon.
I'm ready to build a motormount for a Continental A-80 engine. I was about to
order on-line from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co. In attempting to order 3/4
inch X .060 wall thickness, Aircraft Spruce doesn't offer this size.
I also need about 10 feet of 5/8 X .066. (I'm using a motormount jig that Chuck
G. loaned me and I'd like to follow his design to the letter ... including
tube sizes & thickness)
Can anyone suggest a good on-line source for 4130?
I think a 20 foot stick of 3/4 X .060 will suffice and provide excess material
for practice and a couple of other small pieces I need for something else.
Thanks
Sterling
Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Juan Andreani" <andreani890(at)hotmail.com> |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
--- MIME Errors ---
A message with no text/plain section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using plaintext formatting.
NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the
message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus
WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be
informed of the potential problem with their system as soon
as possible.
--- MIME Errors ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Javier Cruz <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx> |
| Subject: | 4130 source? Building motormount soon. |
Hi Steerling
All 4130 that ihave been used was from ASS.
Good luck on your motor mount
Javier Cruz
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 4130 source? Building motormount soon. |
In a message dated 9/20/04 7:26:51 PM Central Daylight Time, djv(at)imagedv.com
writes:
<< my mount for my Corvair, which weighs about 235lb ready to fly is made
from 3/4" .049 wall. I see no reason why an A-80 mount couldn't be made from the
same. AS&S has lots of 3/4 .049
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 4:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 4130 source? Building motormount soon.
I'm ready to build a motormount for a Continental A-80 engine. I was about
to order on-line from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co. In attempting to order
3/4 inch X .060 wall thickness, Aircraft Spruce doesn't offer this size.
I also need about 10 feet of 5/8 X .066. (I'm using a motormount jig that
Chuck G. loaned me and I'd like to follow his design to the letter ...
including tube sizes & thickness)
Can anyone suggest a good on-line source for 4130?
I think a 20 foot stick of 3/4 X .060 will suffice and provide excess
material for practice and a couple of other small pieces I need for something
else.
Thanks
Sterling
Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch >>
DJ,
The plans do call out for 3/4" X .049, but I built the mount 8" longer than
the plans, hence the reason for the thicker .060" wall material. It came from
Airparts Inc.
2400 Merriam Lane
Kansas City, Kansas 66106
Toll Free: 800-800-3229
Web site: www.airpartsinc.com
The 5/8" X .066 came from 'The Yard' here in Wichita. I measured the wall
thickness with a calliper, so the wall thickness is within a thousandth, or so.
Sterling,
Here are a few other supliers of 4130:
Another source of metal tubing and stuff for you:
Shapiro Supply in St. Louis, MO (http://www.shapirosupply.com)
"The Dillsburg Aeroplane Works"
Charles Vogelsong
114 Sawmill rd.
Dillsburg, Pa 17019
( 717 ) 432-4589
Factory Metal and Steel.
http://www.thomasregister.com/olc/factorysteel/
Their website claims: "Largest in-stock selection of 4130 tubing in the
country!" and "NO MINIMUM ORDER REQUIRED"
I came across them while searching for a local supplier. I have yet to
investigate pricing. Their toll free number is 888 IS ALLOY or 888-472-5569.
Aircraft Supply Company, 7204 Parwelk, Dallas, Texas 75235 214 637 3598
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Any News fro Corky? |
In a message dated 9/20/04 4:47:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
<< BTW, since the Sport Pilot deal is in, and one could fly into your country
if
he had permission from that country to enter, might just convince ole Chuck
Gantzer to fly along with me for a friendly south of the border trip if we
were
accorded an invitation. How high are those hills? >>
When do we leave ? I've never been to Mexico. Could be another location for
my 'Places to fly to' list.
Sterling said: I'll tell Chuck that Javier is related to the Presidente, and
Javier has a key to all the Cuidads in Mexico and knows a Bonita Senorita
that Chuck can fly in his Air Camper.
Sterling, I don't speak Spanish...what is Cuidads & Bonita Senorita ? Sounds
like some kind of insect... :)
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: first flight checklist. |
In a message dated 9/20/04 4:47:40 PM Central Daylight Time,
lshutks(at)webtv.net writes:
<< Chuck:
Speaking of Chapter 88. A guy there had a news paper clipping mailed to
him from a friend of his from Wheeling W. Va. about a guy from Wichita
flying around the country in a Pietenpol. imagine that! >>
Hey Leon,
Yes, two local hometown newspapers had an article & picture about me, my
plane, and 'Tour America'. I made the Big Times !! YEEE HAAWWW !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com> |
In the plans it says to cut a notch in the intake manifold so the carb will
be level during flight. When the term "weld" is used to describe
reattaching the two parts, what did it mean in 1930? I assume it means to
braze together since it is cast iron. Am I correct in that assumption?
Carol and Ralph
Raymond
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
Carl:
I barely remember the article that you mentioned. Grant's lack of response does
not surprise me. I have a copy of Gary McGill's propeller duplicator manual, if
that would be of any help. You will still need atleast half of a prop to copy.
Mike L.
"Carl D. Vought" wrote:
>
> Larry..Best wishes to you and to 444MH. Does 444MH still have the light-and-
> dark wood laminated prop? Some time ago, there was an article on the making
> of that prop written by Grant McLauren. I've emailed Grant, asking if he
> remembers where and/or when it was published...no response. Does anyone out
> there remember the article? can you refer me to the source??? Carl Vought
>
> wrote :
>
> >
> >
> > Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings,
> > connecting the controls and installing the fairings in
> > preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the Howard
> > Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the
> > procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to the
> > time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO. Joe
> > Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for me.
> >
> > Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by posting
> > this. You folks can work on this for about a week and
> > then it is "go" time.
> >
> > Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and
> > fairings. Connect controls.
> > Check oil
> > Check fuel quality and quantity
> > Check coolant
> > Check tire pressures
> > Check controls
> > Start engine and warm up, check guages
> > After warm up, do static power test
> > Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear
> > Cross fingers and take off
> > Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns
> > Return to pattern for first landing
> > Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare
> >
> > That is all I have come up with. It is different that
> > the checklist I use with my Bonanza .
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Larry Nelson
> > Springfield, MO
> > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > SV/ Spirit of America
> > ARS WB0JOT
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: wing dihedral |
Gordon:
I just finished hanging my wings. I seem to recall in Bernies manual
that he wanted the wing to appear flat, but in order to do that there
has to be a little dihedral. So it's an illusion. Kinda like the top of
a Rolls Royce radiator. It has a bit of crown cause if it were truly
flat it would appear to be dished.
Mike L.
Gordon Bowen wrote:
> I'm in the process of rebuilding N-1033B, wrecked a couple years ago.
> Wings are not BH's design, they're off of an Aeronca, no evidence of
> dihedral except for possible adjustments to lift struts. For you old
> timer purest, zippin' around with Model A's, did Bernie put any
> dihedral in his original wing design. Did later design mods have
> anything other than a straight wing. Lastly, what's the actual vs
> published stall speed on original designs.Gordon Bowen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Any News fro Corky? |
Chuck, trust me, would I steer a fellow TACO wrong?
And with my vastly superior knowledge of Spanish, and our relationship with
Javier ... this could be the Air Camper trip of a lifetime. In fact, I think we
should make this our first official flight of TACOs. (Or our first official
invasion of Mexico, TACOS invading Mexico... that sounds good and has a nice
ring to it.)
As soon as we land in Mexico, I'm buying a round of Cuban cigars for everyone
in addition to a "near-beer" Corona (lacking any alcohol.) Then I'll teach
you a few words in Spanish. "Amigo, como esta" is a good starter, and then
patting everyone you meet on the back is a great follow up. Just don't screw up
and
say "take me to your sister, muy pronto" in Spanish. That tends to make em' a
little hostile.
The best way to fly into Mexico, based on my Maule adventures to Central
America, is to fly to McAllen, Texas (to do the Customs thing) and enter Mexico
there, flying along the coast to Veracruz. This is an incredible view, flying
along the eastern coast of Mexico, with a view of spectacular mountains off the
right wing tip and the ocean beach under the belly. Veracruz has some nice
hotels downtown. The airport in Veracruz is also staffed with dozens upon dozens
of Federales with assault rifles. They come out with their M-16s and greet
Gringos. Made me feel all warm and fuzzy the first time I landed the Maule there
a few years ago. I think the are the welcoming committee, they were speaking
Spanish so fast, it was difficult to understand them. Since there is no way to
lock up the cockpit on a Pietenpol (unlike the Maule I flew) it might be best
to camp out under the air camper, or at least one of us can stay with the
planes while the rest of us are downtown enjoying the nightlife.
Anyway, we have several months to plan and think about this, and I'll send
out some Spanish phrases everyone can bone up on. Oh, last thing. Do not use
their "car gas" in any airplane. You strictly want to be running their 100LL in
your engine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | 4130 tubing and AN hardware |
Even though the guy is a jerk who owns Dillsburg Aero in PA, he has what
you need Sterling and then some.
He ships out in 8 foot (UPS max) lengths. I purchased everything from
them---AN hardware, cables, 4130 sheet,
round, and even my streamlined lift strut material.
Dillsburg Aero, 717-432-4589.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Question re: wing dihedral |
| From: | "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com> |
Gentlemen,
The statement that Bernard did not put any dihedral in the original wing is not
true. Somewhere I have a description by Bernard for assembling an Air Camper
and in it he said that he would have two fellows lift up on the wing tips (of
the solid wing) when he measured the distance for the lift struts, specifically
to introduce a small amount of dihedral.
The wing is built flat but installed with a small amount of dihedral. If you've
ever flown a plane with anhedral, you'll quickly understand why.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Any News fro Corky? |
I nominate Mike Cuy to stay at the airport with the Federales while the
remainder of us take on the town.
CMC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Wait a second, Corky---how did I get stuck with that job ? Perhaps there
will be a nice female Federale there
though and then I'll get to go into town with you guys because Chuck will
be busy giving her a Pietenpol ride !!!!!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | flying south of the border |
Corky wrote-
>BTW, since the Sport Pilot deal is in, and one could fly into your country
>if
>he had permission from that country to enter, might just convince ole Chuck
>Gantzer to fly along with me for a friendly south of the border trip if we
>were
>accorded an invitation. How high are those hills?
Those hills are mighty high, but no step for a stepper. I've already been
accorded an invitation by Gary Gower and his avia-locos down South and have
already discussed the possibility with my instructor Charlie since he has
lots of hours flying down there. It's a real possibility for me and 41CC,
and I have put it on my own list of 'to do' flights for sometime in the
future. I speak Spanish (born and raised on the border), have never been
thrown in jail in Mexico nor been arrested there despite having earned the
right to have been, enjoy the food and customs, am very comfortable down
south, and think it would be lots of fun.
PS to "El Taco Loco", Sterling Brooks: they don't drink Corona Light in
Mexico. They think it's sissy stuff for yankee gringos, so don't expect to
find much of it down there except right on the border where the tourists go.
PS to Corky: we're working on magneto issues with 41CC but hope to get it
flying this weekend. What's great is that even on the ground and
non-flyable with the mags pulled off, the airplane continues to draw
attention. One old boy sat in the cockpit and reminisced about old times
and you could see the dreams in his eyes. The Piet is sort of magical that
way, I guess.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | 4130 tubing and AN hardware |
Wow...I didn't think the guy at Dillsberg's was a jerk...I told him what I
needed and got it ASAP..and the prices were better that ACS or Wicks...and
he was pretty helpful..Maybe he just has his days like we all do....Do not
archive...Ed G.
>From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: 4130 tubing and AN hardware
>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:07:30 -0400
>
>
>
>Even though the guy is a jerk who owns Dillsburg Aero in PA, he has what
>you need Sterling and then some.
>He ships out in 8 foot (UPS max) lengths. I purchased everything from
>them---AN hardware, cables, 4130 sheet,
>round, and even my streamlined lift strut material.
>
>Dillsburg Aero, 717-432-4589.
>
>Mike C.
>
>
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Federales - bring american dollars |
The Governor of Chihuahua gave me a Get Out Of Jail Card (with his signature
on it) a few years ago. I still carry it when heading south of the border. It
has come in handy before. But, you can't go wrong with a wad of $5 bills with
Bill Clinton's picture on it (ala Xerox).
Concerning Oscar's very nasty, malicious, hurtful and mean-spirted comment
about Corona being a sissy beer ... when waiters serve us a Corona across the
border, we immediately if not sooner toss the lime and while the waiter is still
watching, we always add an ounce of used AeroShell to the Corona and take a
swig. This impresses the heck out of the local folks and they overlook the fact
that we aren't drinking Modleo in a rusty can. You just have to know the
ropas when heading south.
(Oscar probably beats me in speaking Spanish though... I think he better
travel with the rest of us in the lead Border Patrol TACO plane and we should
arrange to have Javier in his flight uniform to meet us at the airport, just in
case...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Ed-- Charlie Volgelsong runs Dillsburg and sometimes he answers the phone
and sometimes his brother or
fellow worker does. Depends which Charlie you get. Sometimes you get
the mean old Charlie and sometimes you
get the nice old Charlie.
They do have a great selection, great quality, great shipping times, and
they rarely screw up orders. The worst I had was some
screws that were back ordered once. Business wise, they are
excellent----bedside manners tho are not sometimes their strong suit.
I guess he can afford to be crabby once in a while----------guess I would
be crabby to if I was still working 12 hour days at 80+ years of age.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Any News fro Corky? |
Good to hear Ivan didnt do any harm in your area, Corky.
About flying to Mexico, I e-mailed with Oscar Zuiga about this a few
weeks ago... Is very posible, in fact we talked about it in the club.
We even made a flight plan all the way from Mc Allen to Guadalajara,
avoiding the high airports, there is only one to avoid (7,100 ft ASL).
We used Jeppesen FliteStar.
We are planning the legs, gasoline available, lodging, etc...
This year we have our Aniversary fly in the 30 of October, officialy
the party is the 1st of Nov, but we use the closest weekend to make the
party, the good thing is that the 2nd of Nov is an oficial no working
day, so we can make a long weekend. I offered Oscar that a few of us
can fly in our planes to the border or Monterrey to escort the group in
the trip.
Here are 4 photos of last years Fiesta...
We can plan something for 2005, we are also planing a clubs flight to
S n F.
Well, if there is interest, we can think of it... This year maybe is
to close, I dont know what you think...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
> Thanks Gary for your kind interest.
> My bride and I have not experienced a single raindrop since August. I
> planted
> some satsuma, lemon, naval oranges and rio red grapefruit trees on
> the 4th of
> August. Have had two light rains since planting and am hand watering.
> They
> are beginning to sprout some new growth and blossoms.
> Have spent the remainder of the summer on Repiet. Have accomplished
> more than
> projected. It's on the gear with the centersection almost completed.
> Am
> building a cutout this time instead of the flop in order to get to
> the baggage
> compartment in the c/s ala Mike Cuy. It weighs in about 152 lbs with
> wheels,
> tires, fuel tank, tail wheel, cabanes and c/s and controls. No above
> longerons wood
> as yet.
> BTW, since the Sport Pilot deal is in, and one could fly into your
> country if
> he had permission from that country to enter, might just convince ole
> Chuck
> Gantzer to fly along with me for a friendly south of the border trip
> if we were
> accorded an invitation. How high are those hills?
>
> Corky and his bride in Louisiana enjoying a most beautiful day
> PS My computer took a 3 week break until Sat night.Was full of bugs.
>
_______________________________
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
Hi Mike...The article I had in mind was in one of the aviation mags (not
SA) it could have been Kitplanes. However the problem has been solved in
spades by P. F. Beck who sent me an elaborate article on the subject. Not
exactly what I was thinking about, but much better...Thank you..Carl Vought
>
> Carl:
>
> I barely remember the article that you mentioned. Grant's lack of
response does
> not surprise me. I have a copy of Gary McGill's propeller duplicator
manual, if
> that would be of any help. You will still need atleast half of a prop to
copy.
>
> Mike L.
>
> "Carl D. Vought" wrote:
>
> >
> > Larry..Best wishes to you and to 444MH. Does 444MH still have the light-
and-
> > dark wood laminated prop? Some time ago, there was an article on the
making
> > of that prop written by Grant McLauren. I've emailed Grant, asking if he
> > remembers where and/or when it was published...no response. Does anyone
out
> > there remember the article? can you refer me to the source??? Carl
Vought
> >
> > wrote :
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings,
> > > connecting the controls and installing the fairings in
> > > preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the Howard
> > > Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the
> > > procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to the
> > > time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO. Joe
> > > Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for me.
> > >
> > > Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by posting
> > > this. You folks can work on this for about a week and
> > > then it is "go" time.
> > >
> > > Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and
> > > fairings. Connect controls.
> > > Check oil
> > > Check fuel quality and quantity
> > > Check coolant
> > > Check tire pressures
> > > Check controls
> > > Start engine and warm up, check guages
> > > After warm up, do static power test
> > > Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear
> > > Cross fingers and take off
> > > Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns
> > > Return to pattern for first landing
> > > Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare
> > >
> > > That is all I have come up with. It is different that
> > > the checklist I use with my Bonanza .
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Larry Nelson
> > > Springfield, MO
> > > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> > > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > > SV/ Spirit of America
> > > ARS WB0JOT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Any News fro Corky? |
I depends where you stop, Is easy to be in the safe side, we normally
make a long trip in the middle november.
This year will be all the Pacific coast heading north from here and
inside the Gulf de Cortes down the Baja to Cabo San Lucas and back,
crossing on Isla Tiburon to main land.
We are planning a two week vacation... We always find safety in the
airports we visit. In fact we plan with months in advance and get in
touch with local flyers in the area, is real fun, lots of good food and
fun. Our trips are gettin famous with local flyiers, some just join
during the trip. From November to January we normaly find the best
climate to travel around here. May to October gets lots of storms and
rain.
Is like our so long planned trip to Sun And Fun, we will really
appreciate some US pilots in the group to help with the radio and some
dificult navigation areas... some english in several states is
dificult to understand without lots of conversation practice.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
> I nominate Mike Cuy to stay at the airport with the Federales while
> the
> remainder of us take on the town.
> CMC
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flying south of the border |
Hello Oscar,
Glad you are thinking of visiting, hope some of the TACO members join,
here we are working on that, just for the fun of planning the flight.
In fact one member of our club, is a retired Corona Dealer, so always
there is enough beer in our barbacues. And yes, we can get some
"light" Corona, everyone here knows that some Gringos drink that
"ladies stuff" :-) :-)
We can even go to some side trips to our Pacific Coast, if time,
weather and hangovers allow :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
> Corky wrote-
>
> >BTW, since the Sport Pilot deal is in, and one could fly into your
> country
> >if
> >he had permission from that country to enter, might just convince
> ole Chuck
> >Gantzer to fly along with me for a friendly south of the border trip
> if we
> >were
> >accorded an invitation. How high are those hills?
>
> Those hills are mighty high, but no step for a stepper. I've already
> been
> accorded an invitation by Gary Gower and his avia-locos down South
> and have
> already discussed the possibility with my instructor Charlie since he
> has
> lots of hours flying down there. It's a real possibility for me and
> 41CC,
> and I have put it on my own list of 'to do' flights for sometime in
> the
> future. I speak Spanish (born and raised on the border), have never
> been
> thrown in jail in Mexico nor been arrested there despite having
> earned the
> right to have been, enjoy the food and customs, am very comfortable
> down
> south, and think it would be lots of fun.
>
> PS to "El Taco Loco", Sterling Brooks: they don't drink Corona Light
> in
> Mexico. They think it's sissy stuff for yankee gringos, so don't
> expect to
> find much of it down there except right on the border where the
> tourists go.
>
> PS to Corky: we're working on magneto issues with 41CC but hope to
> get it
> flying this weekend. What's great is that even on the ground and
> non-flyable with the mags pulled off, the airplane continues to draw
> attention. One old boy sat in the cockpit and reminisced about old
> times
> and you could see the dreams in his eyes. The Piet is sort of
> magical that
> way, I guess.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Intake manifold |
Ralph, I had the same concern so had it brazed. Seems to be a good joint...no
problems afetr 25 hours running time. Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Finally got NX899JP running this weekend, in anticipation of the inspection
by the Feds in the next few days (or weeks). Had an interesting problem
with it and wonder if anyone else has had this problem.
I had installed brand new Slick magnetos on my Continental A65 a couple of
years ago, but this was the first time I had tried to start the engine. The
ignition leads were attached as labeled (Slick puts labels on the collars
that screw onto the plugs, like "B4" and "T2". The mag timing was set by an
A&P/IA friend (who also happens to be the FBO at the airport where I will do
my test flying).
We tried to start it and wore out 4 men propping it on Saturday. It would
hit occasionally, but never more than 2 cylinders at a time. We finally
gave up and rolled it back into the hangar.
Sunday I tried again, this time pulling the bottom plugs from each cylinder
and squirting starting fluid (ether) into each cylinder, then replacing the
plugs. It hit once, then I got brave and opened the throttle wide open.
The next time it was propped, it caught and ran, very roughly, finally
getting up to about 900 RPM. I ran it for about 5 minutes, hoping it would
loosen up and run properly. At least the oil pressure was good.
Once I shut it down, it became obvious that the front two cylinders were
cold. To make a long story short, it turned out that the two front
cylinders (number 3 & 4 on a Continental A65) had their ignition timing 180
degrees out of phase with where it should be, i.e., #4 was trying to fire
when #3 should be firing. I reversed the leads between those two cylinders
and it then ran fine. I barely had enough length to reach on the top plugs,
but it does fit and runs normally now. I have not contacted Slick about
this yet, but think that I will. I guess we would have caught it earlier,
but when we timed it, we were just looking at #1 cylinder and it was timed
correctly.
Anybody else had a similar problem with Slicks?
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Handheld / GPS |
>
> > Great to hear the sun is finally shinning in Florida !!
> Chuck G.
>
Chuck,
That was yesterday. Today a remenant of Ivan is attacking us. I am online
between thunderstorms. Seems a piece of Ivan broke off and made a big
circle and came back at us from the east. Then there is Jeanne waiting off
shore and then Karl and Lisa...
The "real antenna" I tried was a dipole inside the rear fuselage. It is
better than the rubber one but still could be improved on. Has anyone
successfully installed an antenna inside the plane (so it can't be seen from
outside)?
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Sloan <alexms1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | "Last Flight Out" on TV last night |
Bert,
Great message. Waiting for Ivan to pass through.
Alex Sloan
-----Original Message-----
From: Bert Conoly [SMTP:bconoly(at)earthlink.net]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "Last Flight Out" on TV last night
<< File: ATT00001.html >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slick Magnetos |
Jack.
Could it be that you have LH mags instead of RH rotation mags.? That would make
sense since the Continental 65 firing order is 1-3-2-4 . Sounds like your Mags
are (were) expecting 1-4-2-3.
Seems like mine say RH on each one on the data plates.
What model slicks are they?
If this is a dumb idea, and there's no such thing, there's an imposter on my computer
tonight.
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 8:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slick Magnetos
Finally got NX899JP running this weekend, in anticipation of the inspection
by the Feds in the next few days (or weeks). Had an interesting problem with
it and wonder if anyone else has had this problem.
I had installed brand new Slick magnetos on my Continental A65 a couple of years
ago, but this was the first time I had tried to start the engine. The ignition
leads were attached as labeled (Slick puts labels on the collars that screw
onto the plugs, like "B4" and "T2". The mag timing was set by an A&P/IA friend
(who also happens to be the FBO at the airport where I will do my test flying).
We tried to start it and wore out 4 men propping it on Saturday. It would hit
occasionally, but never more than 2 cylinders at a time. We finally gave up
and rolled it back into the hangar.
Sunday I tried again, this time pulling the bottom plugs from each cylinder and
squirting starting fluid (ether) into each cylinder, then replacing the plugs.
It hit once, then I got brave and opened the throttle wide open. The next
time it was propped, it caught and ran, very roughly, finally getting up to
about 900 RPM. I ran it for about 5 minutes, hoping it would loosen up and run
properly. At least the oil pressure was good.
Once I shut it down, it became obvious that the front two cylinders were cold.
To make a long story short, it turned out that the two front cylinders (number
3 & 4 on a Continental A65) had their ignition timing 180 degrees out of phase
with where it should be, i.e., #4 was trying to fire when #3 should be firing.
I reversed the leads between those two cylinders and it then ran fine.
I barely had enough length to reach on the top plugs, but it does fit and runs
normally now. I have not contacted Slick about this yet, but think that I
will. I guess we would have caught it earlier, but when we timed it, we were
just looking at #1 cylinder and it was timed correctly.
Anybody else had a similar problem with Slicks?
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slick Magnetos |
I had brand new slicks put on my A-65. No problems. I had it set up by an A&I
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 7:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slick Magnetos
Finally got NX899JP running this weekend, in anticipation of the inspection
by the Feds in the next few days (or weeks). Had an interesting problem with
it and wonder if anyone else has had this problem.
I had installed brand new Slick magnetos on my Continental A65 a couple of years
ago, but this was the first time I had tried to start the engine. The ignition
leads were attached as labeled (Slick puts labels on the collars that screw
onto the plugs, like "B4" and "T2". The mag timing was set by an A&P/IA friend
(who also happens to be the FBO at the airport where I will do my test flying).
We tried to start it and wore out 4 men propping it on Saturday. It would hit
occasionally, but never more than 2 cylinders at a time. We finally gave up
and rolled it back into the hangar.
Sunday I tried again, this time pulling the bottom plugs from each cylinder and
squirting starting fluid (ether) into each cylinder, then replacing the plugs.
It hit once, then I got brave and opened the throttle wide open. The next
time it was propped, it caught and ran, very roughly, finally getting up to
about 900 RPM. I ran it for about 5 minutes, hoping it would loosen up and run
properly. At least the oil pressure was good.
Once I shut it down, it became obvious that the front two cylinders were cold.
To make a long story short, it turned out that the two front cylinders (number
3 & 4 on a Continental A65) had their ignition timing 180 degrees out of phase
with where it should be, i.e., #4 was trying to fire when #3 should be firing.
I reversed the leads between those two cylinders and it then ran fine.
I barely had enough length to reach on the top plugs, but it does fit and runs
normally now. I have not contacted Slick about this yet, but think that I
will. I guess we would have caught it earlier, but when we timed it, we were
just looking at #1 cylinder and it was timed correctly.
Anybody else had a similar problem with Slicks?
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slick Magnetos |
The last Slick mags I put on an O-320 had the 180 degree opposed holes for setting
either left or right rotation. Sounds to me like one of the mags was "pinned"
for the correct R rotation and the other was pinned with L. They both have
to be pinned for right rotation, then inserted into gear, then jointly timed.
Maybe someone made a mistake. Did the AP actually insert the mags in the
holes, or just do the timing?
Gordon Bowen
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Conoly
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Slick Magnetos
Jack.
Could it be that you have LH mags instead of RH rotation mags.? That would make
sense since the Continental 65 firing order is 1-3-2-4 . Sounds like your
Mags are (were) expecting 1-4-2-3.
Seems like mine say RH on each one on the data plates.
What model slicks are they?
If this is a dumb idea, and there's no such thing, there's an imposter on my
computer tonight.
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 8:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slick Magnetos
Finally got NX899JP running this weekend, in anticipation of the inspection
by the Feds in the next few days (or weeks). Had an interesting problem with
it and wonder if anyone else has had this problem.
I had installed brand new Slick magnetos on my Continental A65 a couple of
years ago, but this was the first time I had tried to start the engine. The ignition
leads were attached as labeled (Slick puts labels on the collars that
screw onto the plugs, like "B4" and "T2". The mag timing was set by an A&P/IA
friend (who also happens to be the FBO at the airport where I will do my test
flying).
We tried to start it and wore out 4 men propping it on Saturday. It would
hit occasionally, but never more than 2 cylinders at a time. We finally gave
up and rolled it back into the hangar.
Sunday I tried again, this time pulling the bottom plugs from each cylinder
and squirting starting fluid (ether) into each cylinder, then replacing the plugs.
It hit once, then I got brave and opened the throttle wide open. The next
time it was propped, it caught and ran, very roughly, finally getting up to
about 900 RPM. I ran it for about 5 minutes, hoping it would loosen up and
run properly. At least the oil pressure was good.
Once I shut it down, it became obvious that the front two cylinders were cold.
To make a long story short, it turned out that the two front cylinders (number
3 & 4 on a Continental A65) had their ignition timing 180 degrees out of
phase with where it should be, i.e., #4 was trying to fire when #3 should be
firing. I reversed the leads between those two cylinders and it then ran fine.
I barely had enough length to reach on the top plugs, but it does fit and
runs normally now. I have not contacted Slick about this yet, but think that
I will. I guess we would have caught it earlier, but when we timed it, we were
just looking at #1 cylinder and it was timed correctly.
Anybody else had a similar problem with Slicks?
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
The A&P installed the mags, and set the timing. I don't remember the model
numbers, but I'm heading to the airport to work on the plane (took the day
off) and I'll see what they are. Whem I ordered them directly from Slick, I
told them that they were going on a Continental A65.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gordon Bowen
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Slick Magnetos
The last Slick mags I put on an O-320 had the 180 degree opposed holes for
setting either left or right rotation. Sounds to me like one of the mags
was "pinned" for the correct R rotation and the other was pinned with L.
They both have to be pinned for right rotation, then inserted into gear,
then jointly timed. Maybe someone made a mistake. Did the AP actually
insert the mags in the holes, or just do the timing?
Gordon Bowen
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Conoly <mailto:bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Slick Magnetos
Jack.
Could it be that you have LH mags instead of RH rotation mags.? That would
make sense since the Continental 65 firing order is 1-3-2-4 . Sounds like
your Mags are (were) expecting 1-4-2-3.
Seems like mine say RH on each one on the data plates.
What model slicks are they?
If this is a dumb idea, and there's no such thing, there's an imposter on my
computer tonight.
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slick Magnetos
Finally got NX899JP running this weekend, in anticipation of the inspection
by the Feds in the next few days (or weeks). Had an interesting problem
with it and wonder if anyone else has had this problem.
I had installed brand new Slick magnetos on my Continental A65 a couple of
years ago, but this was the first time I had tried to start the engine. The
ignition leads were attached as labeled (Slick puts labels on the collars
that screw onto the plugs, like "B4" and "T2". The mag timing was set by an
A&P/IA friend (who also happens to be the FBO at the airport where I will do
my test flying).
We tried to start it and wore out 4 men propping it on Saturday. It would
hit occasionally, but never more than 2 cylinders at a time. We finally
gave up and rolled it back into the hangar.
Sunday I tried again, this time pulling the bottom plugs from each cylinder
and squirting starting fluid (ether) into each cylinder, then replacing the
plugs. It hit once, then I got brave and opened the throttle wide open.
The next time it was propped, it caught and ran, very roughly, finally
getting up to about 900 RPM. I ran it for about 5 minutes, hoping it would
loosen up and run properly. At least the oil pressure was good.
Once I shut it down, it became obvious that the front two cylinders were
cold. To make a long story short, it turned out that the two front
cylinders (number 3 & 4 on a Continental A65) had their ignition timing 180
degrees out of phase with where it should be, i.e., #4 was trying to fire
when #3 should be firing. I reversed the leads between those two cylinders
and it then ran fine. I barely had enough length to reach on the top plugs,
but it does fit and runs normally now. I have not contacted Slick about
this yet, but think that I will. I guess we would have caught it earlier,
but when we timed it, we were just looking at #1 cylinder and it was timed
correctly.
Anybody else had a similar problem with Slicks?
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slick Magnetos |
Jack....Please say Hi to Bill Beerman and to Jeff Ortel (my son-in-law)
Carl Vought/ Huntsville, AL
wrote :
>
>
>
> Finally got NX899JP running this weekend, in anticipation of the
inspection
> by the Feds in the next few days (or weeks). Had an interesting problem
> with it and wonder if anyone else has had this problem.
>
> I had installed brand new Slick magnetos on my Continental A65 a couple of
> years ago, but this was the first time I had tried to start the engine.
The
> ignition leads were attached as labeled (Slick puts labels on the collars
> that screw onto the plugs, like "B4" and "T2". The mag timing was set by
an
> A&P/IA friend (who also happens to be the FBO at the airport where I will
do
> my test flying).
>
> We tried to start it and wore out 4 men propping it on Saturday. It would
> hit occasionally, but never more than 2 cylinders at a time. We finally
> gave up and rolled it back into the hangar.
>
> Sunday I tried again, this time pulling the bottom plugs from each
cylinder
> and squirting starting fluid (ether) into each cylinder, then replacing
the
> plugs. It hit once, then I got brave and opened the throttle wide open.
> The next time it was propped, it caught and ran, very roughly, finally
> getting up to about 900 RPM. I ran it for about 5 minutes, hoping it
would
> loosen up and run properly. At least the oil pressure was good.
>
> Once I shut it down, it became obvious that the front two cylinders were
> cold. To make a long story short, it turned out that the two front
> cylinders (number 3 & 4 on a Continental A65) had their ignition timing
180
> degrees out of phase with where it should be, i.e., #4 was trying to fire
> when #3 should be firing. I reversed the leads between those two
cylinders
> and it then ran fine. I barely had enough length to reach on the top
plugs,
> but it does fit and runs normally now. I have not contacted Slick about
> this yet, but think that I will. I guess we would have caught it earlier,
> but when we timed it, we were just looking at #1 cylinder and it was timed
> correctly.
>
> Anybody else had a similar problem with Slicks?
>
> Jack Phillips
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
Guys,
Who has or has not installed an ELT? It appears that it is required by the regs
but I don't hear much on the list.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting the Model A |
We unloaded the Henderson Pietenpol today at it's new
home, the Flying Bar H airport, which is just east of
Springfield, MO. We rigged her, watered her, and
weighed her (637# w/ water and 1 gallon of fuel).
My buddy, Wes Scott, a Model A kind of guy (he has two
at his farm and 13 engines) says the Model A needs a
choke to start. When I asked Joe Santana, the previous
owner, about this, told me he used ether to start the
Model A. I think it was him that indicated that Howard
may have also used ether.
So, with the choke wired open, what is the consensus
of preparation, and starting of the Model A Ford
engine in this application.
BTW, I fueled her with 87 octane car gas. Too cheap
for my own good? She sure sounded good. If it weren't
for squirrely winds above 12 knots at 90 degrees to
the strip, I would lifted her off from the high speed
taxi runs I was making.
Comments and criticisms are welcome.
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
_______________________________
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Requirement |
Hi Greg
It is required when you carry passangers, but not for the initial test phase.
I just went ahead and installed it. I did also show the inspector my passanger
September 09, 2004 - September 23, 2004
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-eb