Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ec
September 23, 2004 - October 06, 2004
seat belt but got an approval from him not to install it til test phase is complete.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ELT Requirement
Guys,
Who has or has not installed an ELT? It appears that it is required by the regs
but I don't hear much on the list.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Long download - Re: ELT Requirement |
Attached is a photo of our Tcraft ELT installation we did in July.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting the Model A |
Hello one and all. My name is Chet and I have just purchased a Piet
fusealodge from a fellow in Texas. I've been watching your list for about a
week now and it looks like a great place for information to me.
Mr. Nelson I live in Jefferson City and travel your way with my work for the
state. And would like to take a look at your Piet some time. Also our EAA
chapter 429 is holding a flying / carshow with a BBQ on Oct 9th from 9am to
2pm. So if you or any one else have time to drop in a eat a burger please
do.
Thanks again for the infromation and web site.
Chet Hartley
200 Franklin St.
Holts Summit, MO
State Pilot and National Guard pilot also.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting the Model A |
Chet, do you know Gabe Borbeau, a part time but mostly
retired state pilot? I flew with him in his Cub a few
weeks ago at the California Airport. I am still
buzzing about that.
Just give me a call. My home office is 417 882 8122,
and my cell is 417 849 2997.
If your EAA chapter is in Jeff, WEs SCott, my buddy,
belongs to that and he is mostly an old car guy, semi
retired from Dept of Health, and HE has a Piet
project, too, plus 13 model A ford engines. Call me
sometime. Hitting the rack, now, however, for an early
start manana.
--- Chet's Mail wrote:
>
>
> Hello one and all. My name is Chet and I have just
> purchased a Piet
> fusealodge from a fellow in Texas. I've been
> watching your list for about a
> week now and it looks like a great place for
> information to me.
>
> Mr. Nelson I live in Jefferson City and travel your
> way with my work for the
> state. And would like to take a look at your Piet
> some time. Also our EAA
> chapter 429 is holding a flying / carshow with a BBQ
> on Oct 9th from 9am to
> 2pm. So if you or any one else have time to drop in
> a eat a burger please
> do.
>
> Thanks again for the infromation and web site.
>
> Chet Hartley
> 200 Franklin St.
> Holts Summit, MO
>
> State Pilot and National Guard pilot also.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
_______________________________
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting the Model A |
Larry, Doc Hutcheson again. I live about 70 miles
south of you in Harrison, AR. I would like to come up
and see your Piet sometime if it would be ok with you.
I am building a Piet now and it would be helpful to
get a look at yours. Thanks
Doc
--- Larry Nelson wrote:
>
>
>
> We unloaded the Henderson Pietenpol today at it's
> new
> home, the Flying Bar H airport, which is just east
> of
> Springfield, MO. We rigged her, watered her, and
> weighed her (637# w/ water and 1 gallon of fuel).
>
> My buddy, Wes Scott, a Model A kind of guy (he has
> two
> at his farm and 13 engines) says the Model A needs a
> choke to start. When I asked Joe Santana, the
> previous
> owner, about this, told me he used ether to start
> the
> Model A. I think it was him that indicated that
> Howard
> may have also used ether.
>
> So, with the choke wired open, what is the consensus
> of preparation, and starting of the Model A Ford
> engine in this application.
>
> BTW, I fueled her with 87 octane car gas. Too cheap
> for my own good? She sure sounded good. If it
> weren't
> for squirrely winds above 12 knots at 90 degrees to
> the strip, I would lifted her off from the high
> speed
> taxi runs I was making.
>
> Comments and criticisms are welcome.
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
>
> _______________________________
> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> http://vote.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
I installed one. The FAA is supposed to call me Monday to say when they
will be out to inspect my Piet. I'm curious to see if he asks about it.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ELT Requirement
Guys,
Who has or has not installed an ELT? It appears that it is required by the
regs but I don't hear much on the list.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Greg-- I did not install an ELT and my inspector never asked so there still
is no ELT in there. I would carry one if going
over mountains or water, but neither of those events will ever happen on my
watch.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pilots4ETW(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Air Camper's response to Nigerian Spam |
I get tons of spam from "wealthy" Nigerians in desperate need of hiding money
in American bank accounts. So, I flood the Nigerian e-mail address with this
response, from one of my accounts that will not accept any mail. If you are
flooded with Nigerian spam too, maybe we can lock up all the ISPs in Africa by
sending bogus mail back to these bozos. Below is the response I am sending.
Dear Mr. (Name of Nigerian scam artist here__________),
I am Piet Wannabe, a U.S. citizen by nationality. Presently, I reside in the
Southern United States.
My uncle Piet Wasabuilder, was the president of a large U.S. Airline. When
the airline industry began to decline several years ago, politcal leaders in
this nation contributed $200 million in cash, to keep my uncle's airline in
business. Uncle Wasabuilder stashed the money in a secret location in the desert
southwest in order to keep the funds protected.
Unfortunately, my Uncle succumbed to a propellor accident when a mute aviator
started an airplane engine on a dark and foggy night. The mute aviator was
not able to shout "clear prop" when starting the engine and Uncle Wasabuilder
walked into the propellor as the engine was cranking. And since it was dark and
foggy, my uncle was not able to see and read the sign language when the mute
aviator indicated with his hands, as he was waving sign language in the
windscreen "clear prop."
I am very confident that my deceased uncle buried his $200 million somewhere
between El Paso, Texas and Las Vegas, Nevada -- in a dust-proof and
water-tight lock box. Uncle Wasabuilder frequently took me on many flying adventures
in
an airplane he built, when I was a young boy. We frequently flew across the
desert from El Paso to Las Vegas and uncle often remarked, "If I had a million
dollars I wanted to hide, I'd bury it out here under 5 feet of sand." Although
I was too small at the time to effectively see out of the window where uncle
was referencing on the earth below, I think I have a good idea where his secret
hiding place might be and I am extraordinarily confident that uncle buried
the $200 million the government gave him recently.
I seek your help in finding this money and I intend to make you a beneficiary
of $150 million when I locate the funds. I only wish to keep a small amount
of the money for sentimental reasons. And I'd like to have some cash reserves
that would allow me to purchase all the parts and materials to complete a
Pietenpol experimental aircraft, having a turbine engine, storm scope, IFR-GPS
and
some other modest instruments and equipment. I'll build this airplane only so
I can retrace the flying adventures Uncle Wasabuilder took me on, between El
Paso and Las Vegas many years ago.
Oh, how I miss my dear uncle.
You can help me in my quest by providing a new Hummer that would allow me to
explore the desert between El Paso and Las Vegas. Since there are no hotels in
the area I plan to travel, I ask that you also provide a highly modified
Airstream travel trailer to be towed by the Hummer. The Airstream trailer needs
to
be fitted with a flat and reinforced roof, having a surface area 36 feet long
by 8 feet wide. This will be suitable for landing a small Bell Jet Ranger
that I ask you to provide. The helicopter is needed in order to search the desert
as I drive the Hummer between El Paso and Las Vegas. As you know, the Hummer
can go almost anywhere, but the Jet Ranger will be a great asset when
searching vast areas around canyons and mountains.
As soon as I receive your indication to assist me, I will inform you with the
necessary modalities of how to proceed. Until then, in order to verify that
you are in a position to provide the above mentioned tools for the search of
the vast and open desert, please submit your bank account numbers as well as the
account numbers to any and all credit cards you have. I am embarrassed to
even ask that you submit this information, but let me assure you, this is simply
a formality. The exchange of this information will help us develop trust in
each other and establish credibility in regard to your ability to help in this
rewarding endeavor. Also please provide the name of your first born child and
your mother's maiden name.
Kindest Regards and may God Bless You.
Mr. Piet Wannabe, Esq.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting the Model A |
Galen, here is my phone number. The next two weeks are
going to be taken up with work stuff, but after that,
it looks good.
417 882 8122
--- Galen Hutcheson wrote:
> Hutcheson
>
> Larry, Doc Hutcheson again. I live about 70 miles
> south of you in Harrison, AR. I would like to come
> up
> and see your Piet sometime if it would be ok with
> you.
> I am building a Piet now and it would be helpful to
> get a look at yours. Thanks
> Doc
> --- Larry Nelson wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > We unloaded the Henderson Pietenpol today at it's
> > new
> > home, the Flying Bar H airport, which is just east
> > of
> > Springfield, MO. We rigged her, watered her, and
> > weighed her (637# w/ water and 1 gallon of fuel).
> >
> > My buddy, Wes Scott, a Model A kind of guy (he has
> > two
> > at his farm and 13 engines) says the Model A needs
> a
> > choke to start. When I asked Joe Santana, the
> > previous
> > owner, about this, told me he used ether to start
> > the
> > Model A. I think it was him that indicated that
> > Howard
> > may have also used ether.
> >
> > So, with the choke wired open, what is the
> consensus
> > of preparation, and starting of the Model A Ford
> > engine in this application.
> >
> > BTW, I fueled her with 87 octane car gas. Too
> cheap
> > for my own good? She sure sounded good. If it
> > weren't
> > for squirrely winds above 12 knots at 90 degrees
> to
> > the strip, I would lifted her off from the high
> > speed
> > taxi runs I was making.
> >
> > Comments and criticisms are welcome.
> >
> > =====
> > Larry Nelson
> > Springfield, MO
> > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > SV/ Spirit of America
> > ARS WB0JOT
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________
> > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> > http://vote.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/chat
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Starting the Model A |
Larry, After the usual break-in problems were solved, we found that a half
turn on the gas adjustment valve, about four turns on the prop (with the
switch off), one shot of starting fluid in the carb heat inlet.....contact and
it
usually starts her on the first pull. Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting the Model A |
Be very careful with starting fluid...The ether in starting fluid is a
solvent that removes the very thin oil film from the cylinders which
evaporates quickly with the ether. Since the job of the oil rings is to
limit the amount of oil which reaches the cylinders and combustion chambers
it can take quite a few revolutions before the oil film is
reestablished..the compression rings will run without lubrication during
this period of time...I've also seen engines with the ringlands blown off
the pistons from useing heavy shots of either in hot weather...I worked as a
mechanic in a tractor shop for six years and several times heard guys say
their tractor engine got hooked on starting fluid. Fact was it just didn't
have enough compression to start without it because it ruined the rings...Go
very easy with it. Of course you probably know this already but just in
case.......Don't want anyone hurting their Piet engines..Ed
>From: Waytogopiet(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Starting the Model A
>Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:00:25 EDT
>
>Larry, After the usual break-in problems were solved, we found that a
>half
>turn on the gas adjustment valve, about four turns on the prop (with the
>switch off), one shot of starting fluid in the carb heat inlet.....contact
>and it
>usually starts her on the first pull. Don
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Sloan <alexms1(at)comcast.net> |
Friends,
I am ready to mount my 95 H.P. Corvair engine on the test stand I built to
Pat Panzera's specs. Question is, what size and pitch prop is recommended.
I cannot find what prop Mr. Pietenpol used on his Corvair powered
Pietenpol. I recall reading he wished he had a different pitch. Does
anyone recall what he used? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks for the assistance.
Alex Sloan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
Alex,
According to "How I Make Wood Propellers" by Al Schubert, the prop was 63
inch diameter by 35 inch pitch at the tips. Al made two props for Bernie's
Corvair powered Piet.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi, Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alex Sloan
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
Friends,
I am ready to mount my 95 H.P. Corvair engine on the test stand I built to
Pat Panzera's specs. Question is, what size and pitch prop is recommended.
I cannot find what prop Mr. Pietenpol used on his Corvair powered
Pietenpol. I recall reading he wished he had a different pitch. Does
anyone recall what he used? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks for the assistance.
Alex Sloan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting the Model A |
Thanks Larry, I'm looking forward to seeing your
plane. Zip me an email when it is good for me to come
up. I got an email from Ken Perkins about the Model A
engines. Hope we can work something out. I hope to
mount the engine sometime this winter. Doc
--- Larry Nelson wrote:
>
>
> Galen, here is my phone number. The next two weeks
> are
> going to be taken up with work stuff, but after
> that,
> it looks good.
>
> 417 882 8122
>
>
>
>
> --- Galen Hutcheson wrote:
>
> > Hutcheson
> >
> > Larry, Doc Hutcheson again. I live about 70 miles
> > south of you in Harrison, AR. I would like to
> come
> > up
> > and see your Piet sometime if it would be ok with
> > you.
> > I am building a Piet now and it would be helpful
> to
> > get a look at yours. Thanks
> > Doc
> > --- Larry Nelson wrote:
> >
> Nelson
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We unloaded the Henderson Pietenpol today at
> it's
> > > new
> > > home, the Flying Bar H airport, which is just
> east
> > > of
> > > Springfield, MO. We rigged her, watered her, and
> > > weighed her (637# w/ water and 1 gallon of
> fuel).
> > >
> > > My buddy, Wes Scott, a Model A kind of guy (he
> has
> > > two
> > > at his farm and 13 engines) says the Model A
> needs
> > a
> > > choke to start. When I asked Joe Santana, the
> > > previous
> > > owner, about this, told me he used ether to
> start
> > > the
> > > Model A. I think it was him that indicated that
> > > Howard
> > > may have also used ether.
> > >
> > > So, with the choke wired open, what is the
> > consensus
> > > of preparation, and starting of the Model A Ford
> > > engine in this application.
> > >
> > > BTW, I fueled her with 87 octane car gas. Too
> > cheap
> > > for my own good? She sure sounded good. If it
> > > weren't
> > > for squirrely winds above 12 knots at 90 degrees
> > to
> > > the strip, I would lifted her off from the high
> > > speed
> > > taxi runs I was making.
> > >
> > > Comments and criticisms are welcome.
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Larry Nelson
> > > Springfield, MO
> > > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> > > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > > SV/ Spirit of America
> > > ARS WB0JOT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________
> > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote
> today!
> > > http://vote.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Contributions
> > > any other
> > > Forums.
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/chat
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/chat
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
=== message truncated ===
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting the Model A |
Yes we do know Gabe and his cub I've tryed to buy it but he keeps saying no.
I meet Wess a few months back but have not seen him for a couple of months.
Glad to here he has so many engines, this might be a answer to one of my up
and coming problems.
One of our club members today made reference to you flying the Cub. What a
neat airplane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Sloan <alexms1(at)comcast.net> |
Thanks Peter,
That is what I needed to know.
Alex Sloan
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter W Johnson [SMTP:vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au]
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
Alex,
According to "How I Make Wood Propellers" by Al Schubert, the prop was 63
inch diameter by 35 inch pitch at the tips. Al made two props for Bernie's
Corvair powered Piet.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi, Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alex Sloan
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
Friends,
I am ready to mount my 95 H.P. Corvair engine on the test stand I built to
Pat Panzera's specs. Question is, what size and pitch prop is recommended.
I cannot find what prop Mr. Pietenpol used on his Corvair powered
Pietenpol. I recall reading he wished he had a different pitch. Does
anyone recall what he used? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks for the assistance.
Alex Sloan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Starting the Model A |
I don't know if this will help or not since I have
never had much to do with Model A engines before, but
I have had a lot of experience with Kinner radials
which too are low compression engines. In fact, I
think that the Kinner and Model A have a lot in
common. The Kinners were hard to start sometimes.
What worked (as well as did the ether) was to pour
about a table spoon full of gasoline into the top
cylinder (or better top three cylinders) then pull the
prop through three or four times before turning on the
mags. I was using plain old 87 octane auto fuel with
Marvel Mystery Oil mixed in. Does anyone with Model A
Piets use Mystery Oil in their gas? It sure extends
the TBO of old radials. The low compression of the
engines (especially on colder days) doesn't pull the
fuel up into the cylinders very well. When the rings
heat up and expand, they do a better job of pulling
the fuel up. I have been known to apply a butane
torch to the cylinders on cold days to heat up the
rings to make them start better. Doc
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Requirement |
Greg,
My Corben Jr. Ace didn't have one and it passed two annual inspections with no
questions about an ELT. Are you sure it's required for homebuilts? Is it a
new requirement?
Greg Bacon
Missouri
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ELT Requirement
Guys,
Who has or has not installed an ELT? It appears that it is required by the regs
but I don't hear much on the list.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)direcway.com> |
Alex,
You may want to check on this, but I think Bernie's Corvair was a 70HP.
Your 95HP engine might perform a little better with more pitch. William
Wynne will know. www.flycorvair.com
Greg Bacon
Missouri
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
>
> Thanks Peter,
> That is what I needed to know.
> Alex Sloan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter W Johnson [SMTP:vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au]
> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 6:46 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
>
>
> Alex,
>
> According to "How I Make Wood Propellers" by Al Schubert, the prop was 63
> inch diameter by 35 inch pitch at the tips. Al made two props for Bernie's
> Corvair powered Piet.
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> Wonthaggi, Australia
> http://www.cpc-world.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alex Sloan
> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 10:26 AM
> To: 'Pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
>
>
> Friends,
> I am ready to mount my 95 H.P. Corvair engine on the test stand I built to
> Pat Panzera's specs. Question is, what size and pitch prop is
recommended.
> I cannot find what prop Mr. Pietenpol used on his Corvair powered
> Pietenpol. I recall reading he wished he had a different pitch. Does
> anyone recall what he used? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> Thanks for the assistance.
> Alex Sloan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Requirement |
It appears to be required but a lot of people do without. It doesn't seem to be
rigidly enforced.
P.S. Turned in the paperwork to the local MIDO office requesting the final inspection.
I hope the good weather holds out through October.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Bacon
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ELT Requirement
Greg,
My Corben Jr. Ace didn't have one and it passed two annual inspections with no
questions about an ELT. Are you sure it's required for homebuilts? Is it
a new requirement?
Greg Bacon
Missouri
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ELT Requirement
Guys,
Who has or has not installed an ELT? It appears that it is required by the
regs but I don't hear much on the list.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
I'm using a 66x29. If I was to do it over I'd go with a 64X32 but I'm sure
my 66x29 will suffice... my engine is a '65 110 with OT-10 cam.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Bacon" <gbacon67(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
>
> Alex,
>
> You may want to check on this, but I think Bernie's Corvair was a 70HP.
> Your 95HP engine might perform a little better with more pitch. William
> Wynne will know. www.flycorvair.com
>
> Greg Bacon
> Missouri
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 8:00 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
>
>
> >
> > Thanks Peter,
> > That is what I needed to know.
> > Alex Sloan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter W Johnson [SMTP:vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au]
> > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 6:46 PM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
> >
>
> >
> > Alex,
> >
> > According to "How I Make Wood Propellers" by Al Schubert, the prop was
63
> > inch diameter by 35 inch pitch at the tips. Al made two props for
Bernie's
> > Corvair powered Piet.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Peter
> > Wonthaggi, Australia
> > http://www.cpc-world.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alex
Sloan
> > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 10:26 AM
> > To: 'Pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
> >
> >
> > Friends,
> > I am ready to mount my 95 H.P. Corvair engine on the test stand I built
to
> > Pat Panzera's specs. Question is, what size and pitch prop is
> recommended.
> > I cannot find what prop Mr. Pietenpol used on his Corvair powered
> > Pietenpol. I recall reading he wished he had a different pitch. Does
> > anyone recall what he used? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > Thanks for the assistance.
> > Alex Sloan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting the Model A |
I did an archive search on the Model A, hoping to find
the more clues on propping of same. The small shot of
ether worked for us (in the heat muff).
I am going to try a spray bottle of fuel next time.
This always worked for starting my other engines.
(Just a squirt.)
I will try the fuel control idea.
--- Galen Hutcheson wrote:
> Hutcheson
>
> I don't know if this will help or not since I have
> never had much to do with Model A engines before,
> but
> I have had a lot of experience with Kinner radials
> which too are low compression engines. In fact, I
> think that the Kinner and Model A have a lot in
> common. The Kinners were hard to start sometimes.
> What worked (as well as did the ether) was to pour
> about a table spoon full of gasoline into the top
> cylinder (or better top three cylinders) then pull
> the
> prop through three or four times before turning on
> the
> mags. I was using plain old 87 octane auto fuel
> with
> Marvel Mystery Oil mixed in. Does anyone with Model
> A
> Piets use Mystery Oil in their gas? It sure extends
> the TBO of old radials. The low compression of the
> engines (especially on colder days) doesn't pull the
> fuel up into the cylinders very well. When the
> rings
> heat up and expand, they do a better job of pulling
> the fuel up. I have been known to apply a butane
> torch to the cylinders on cold days to heat up the
> rings to make them start better. Doc
>
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Requirement |
The ELT is not required to pass an annual inspection under FAR part 45. It
is required for operating an aircraft more than 50 miles from home base under
Part 91. In other words.... its not the mechanic or inspector's responsibility
to ensure it is installed and operational. It is the PILOT'S responsibility.
Terry B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)direcway.com> |
<035101c4a2ae$15627600$9043040a@Notebook1>
<007201c4a2b4$2223efd0$0100a8c0@Desktop>
DJ,
How did you arrive at the 66X29 solution?
Greg Bacon
Missouri
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
>
> I'm using a 66x29. If I was to do it over I'd go with a 64X32 but I'm
sure
> my 66x29 will suffice... my engine is a '65 110 with OT-10 cam.
>
> DJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg Bacon" <gbacon67(at)direcway.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 8:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
>
>
> >
> > Alex,
> >
> > You may want to check on this, but I think Bernie's Corvair was a 70HP.
> > Your 95HP engine might perform a little better with more pitch. William
> > Wynne will know. www.flycorvair.com
> >
> > Greg Bacon
> > Missouri
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)comcast.net>
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 8:00 PM
> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks Peter,
> > > That is what I needed to know.
> > > Alex Sloan
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Peter W Johnson [SMTP:vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au]
> > > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 6:46 PM
> > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > Alex,
> > >
> > > According to "How I Make Wood Propellers" by Al Schubert, the prop was
> 63
> > > inch diameter by 35 inch pitch at the tips. Al made two props for
> Bernie's
> > > Corvair powered Piet.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Peter
> > > Wonthaggi, Australia
> > > http://www.cpc-world.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alex
> Sloan
> > > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 10:26 AM
> > > To: 'Pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
> > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
> > >
> > >
> > > Friends,
> > > I am ready to mount my 95 H.P. Corvair engine on the test stand I
built
> to
> > > Pat Panzera's specs. Question is, what size and pitch prop is
> > recommended.
> > > I cannot find what prop Mr. Pietenpol used on his Corvair powered
> > > Pietenpol. I recall reading he wished he had a different pitch. Does
> > > anyone recall what he used? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > > Thanks for the assistance.
> > > Alex Sloan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Requirement |
Part 45 - Identification and registration marking??? What does this have to do
with annuals?
Part 43 does. sections i and j covers ELT inspection fairly well.
----- Original Message -----
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ELT Requirement
The ELT is not required to pass an annual inspection under FAR part 45. It is
required for operating an aircraft more than 50 miles from home base under Part
91. In other words.... its not the mechanic or inspector's responsibility
to ensure it is installed and operational. It is the PILOT'S responsibility.
Terry B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
<007201c4a2b4$2223efd0$0100a8c0@Desktop> <013901c4a308$a1cc6790$9043040a@Notebook1>
no particular reason really..... I saw a couple Piets on William Wynne's
website that used that size, and the guy who made my prop also thought it
would be a good size. I had my prop made by Tennessee Propellers.
Since then I've fond that most Corvair powered Piets seem to go with a
slightly smaller diameter and more pitch. I have plenty of static thrust,
but I'm a little bit concerned if it'll produce good thrust once the plane
is moving. I'm pretty sure it'll be ok and I'll certainly have awesome
climb performance which is always good in my book.
My dad is giong to use a Tennessee Propellers 64X32 or 62X34 on his 'Var
powered Celebrity. He'll be buying his prop before I fly my Aircamper so
I'll be able to try both sizes.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Bacon" <gbacon67(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
>
> DJ,
>
> How did you arrive at the 66X29 solution?
>
> Greg Bacon
> Missouri
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 11:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
>
>
> >
> > I'm using a 66x29. If I was to do it over I'd go with a 64X32 but I'm
> sure
> > my 66x29 will suffice... my engine is a '65 110 with OT-10 cam.
> >
> > DJ
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Greg Bacon" <gbacon67(at)direcway.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 8:16 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Alex,
> > >
> > > You may want to check on this, but I think Bernie's Corvair was a
70HP.
> > > Your 95HP engine might perform a little better with more pitch.
William
> > > Wynne will know. www.flycorvair.com
> > >
> > > Greg Bacon
> > > Missouri
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)comcast.net>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 8:00 PM
> > > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Peter,
> > > > That is what I needed to know.
> > > > Alex Sloan
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Peter W Johnson [SMTP:vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au]
> > > > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 6:46 PM
> > > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Alex,
> > > >
> > > > According to "How I Make Wood Propellers" by Al Schubert, the prop
was
> > 63
> > > > inch diameter by 35 inch pitch at the tips. Al made two props for
> > Bernie's
> > > > Corvair powered Piet.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > >
> > > > Peter
> > > > Wonthaggi, Australia
> > > > http://www.cpc-world.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > > > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alex
> > Sloan
> > > > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 10:26 AM
> > > > To: 'Pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
> > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Friends,
> > > > I am ready to mount my 95 H.P. Corvair engine on the test stand I
> built
> > to
> > > > Pat Panzera's specs. Question is, what size and pitch prop is
> > > recommended.
> > > > I cannot find what prop Mr. Pietenpol used on his Corvair powered
> > > > Pietenpol. I recall reading he wished he had a different pitch.
Does
> > > > anyone recall what he used? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > > > Thanks for the assistance.
> > > > Alex Sloan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Al Schubert, Al Kelch... |
I was pleased to see Alvin Schubert's name mentioned in reference to
propeller carving and his book "How I Carve Propellers." Some of you my know that
Alvin passed a few years ago. Following is a piece that I wrote shortly after
Alvins passing for the Galesville Republican newspaper. At the time I was
considering building a Volksplane, but once again, I came back to the Pietenpol
instead. In fact, at Alvin's estate sale, I purchased the Pietenpol plans that
Alvin
had purchased back in 1968. Anyway, here's my tribute to Alvin...
I should also mention that Al Kelch, who kept his magnificent collection of
antique airplanes at Brodhead, passed away this last week on Sept. 21. See
EAA's latest "Hotline."
Last Flight: Alvin Schubert Remembered
By Frederick Beseler, La Crosse, WI
We lost a good friend when Alvin Schubert, rural Trempealeau, (Wis.) passed
away on March 9th, 2002, at 85 years of age. Alvin grew up during aviation's
Golden Age when pioneers like Lindbergh, Byrd, Hughes, Post, Doolittle, Earhart,
Cochrane and Wittman blazed new trails across the sky=E2=80=94faster, farther and
higher. "Pushing the envelope," as the test pilots say. They inspired a whole
generation of kids like Alvin to get into aviation.
Alvin was born in Genoa, Wisconsin, in 1916. His family later settled on the
farm near Trempealeau where Alvin lived his entire life. I first encountered
Alvin when I was a kid, growing up in Trempealeau. I was always building
gas-powered model planes=E2=80=94control-line planes that go around in circles
on the end of
40-foot long strings. My buddy, Claus Ryder, and I flew the planes in the
small field below my parent's house on West Second Street. Around 1970 or so I
decided to try free-flight modeling and so I built a balsa wood model of a Piper
Cub that was powered by a little gas engine. Unlike control line models, free
flight model planes require a large, treeless field from which to fly. One
hot summer I pedaled my bicycle out of Trempealeau towards Centerville until
finally I found a nice big, wide-open field just perfect for flying a free flight
model plane.
With a free flight model you set the rudder for a right turn, gas it up,
start the engine and let her go. If successful, the airplane spirals upwards,
circling left due to the propeller torque. Once the engine runs out of fuel=20and
quits, it should glide slowly down, turning right in response to the bend in the
rudder. Technicalities aside, you mostly pray that the model and all your
hard work and the then expensive-for-a-kid $5.98 gas engine, doesn't simply=20fly
straight away to the next county, never to be found. There was no danger of=20my
Cub flying over the rainbow on that day. She took off and climbed away okay,
but once the engine quit the model went into a nasty, ever-tightening spiral
and bored straight down into the soft farm field. Test pilots call it "auguring
in."
While cleaning the dirt from the engine I noticed a farmer coming across the
field, heading straight for me. No doubt it was the owner of the land that I
was using for a flying field. I began packing up my tools, ignition battery=20and
fuel as I was certain that he would chase me out of his fields.
"Nice day for flying, isn't it?" he asked. "I believe that you need to bend
the right aileron down just a little bit, and maybe bend the elevator up just a
little_then she should fly pretty well!"
I was amazed and astonished. First, he hadn't told me to get the heck off his
land. Second, he spoke "airplane." But then I thought, "Who is this old
farmer in the baggy coveralls, and how on earth would he know anything about flying
and aerodynamics?"
Appearances are deceiving. I soon learned that Alvin Schubert knew more about
airplanes and aerodynamics than anyone else I ever knew. He was Valedictorian
of the Class of 1938 at Galesville High School and he was forever and always
tinkering with mechanical gadgets and engines. For example, Alvin had built=20a
couple of tractors and then a working electrical generator for the family farm
long before the power company came along. (Over the years I often wondered
what this latter day Wright Brother would have accomplished had he gone on to
college.)
We got the model Cub fixed up and flying. He thoroughly enjoyed watching that
little model fly. Standing there with his hands in the pockets of his bib
coveralls, looking skyward as the tiny yellow plane floated upwards, Alvin said,
"Well, you know, a model airplane obeys the same laws of flight that a full
size airplane does."
Alvin admitted that he had "monkeyed around with airplanes a little, now and
then." He had done more than "monkey around." Alvin knew about flying and
aerodynamics and how to build an airplane just as surely as William Boeing and
Donald Douglas knew how to build airplanes. We walked over to one of his farm
sheds. Alvin rolled the old weathered barn door open. Lo and behold, nestled
among the straw bales was a real airplane! It was a trim little single-seat,
all-silver plane that Alvin had designed and then built with his own two hands.
It
had a 21-foot wingspan and was powered by an early 36-horsepower Volkswagen
engine, which was about the only thing on it that Alvin hadn't built from
scratch. Even the propeller was designed and carved by Alvin.
"I call her Der Fledermaus. Just step up right there, swing your leg into the
cockpit and then you can sit in her," said Alvin.
I asked if it actually flew. Alvin replied, "Well...yep...she flies pretty
well...cruises along pretty fast on 36 horsepower. Well...I'm going to carve a
new propeller with a little finer pitch to give her a little more zip on
takeoff. Let's start her up."
Before I could jump out, Alvin gave the propeller a couple flips and away she
went, the little four-cylinder VW engine barking away through the stubby
exhaust stacks. The wind from the propeller blew our hair. Alvin`s eyes sparkled.
I was sitting at the controls of a real, running airplane! No disrespect to
Der Fledermaus, but I recall looking through the Plexiglas windscreen and for a
moment imagining that I was sitting in a World War II Spitfire or P-47
Thunderbolt.
And then I remember thinking that I'd have to keep the whole experience a
secret as I knew that my parents wouldn't care for the idea of their kid at the
controls of a real, running airplane=E2=80=94much less a homemade airplane!
That little plane truly was, and is, an engineering marvel. With only three
times the horsepower of the Wright Brothers` plane, Alvin's plane is capable of
cruising at nearly 100 miles per hour.
I told Alvin that I had lived in Trempealeau nearly all my life and never
knew that he had an airplane and a grass runway just outside of town. He said,
laughing, "Well...I don't like much publicity. When people hear that you built
your own airplane, well...some folks think you're some kind of a crazy fool!"
Even as a kid, I empathized with Alvin. I understood. Many people thought I
was kind of goofy the way I was always building and flying model airplanes (30
years later I still build model planes on occasion!). To me Alvin seemed like
just another big kid fooling around with airplanes=E2=80=94the only difference
was the
horsepower, wingspan and payload.
What a wonderful August afternoon out at Alvin's flying field, 32 years ago.
The sun was hot and the summer air smelled of fresh-cut hay=E2=80=94and the
possibility of flight!
I got my pilot's license several years later in a 150-horsepower Piper Super
Cub. On weekends I'd hop around to various fly-in pancake breakfasts, or over
to The Big Show: the Experimental Aircraft Association's (EAA) Fly-In and
Convention held at Oshkosh each August. At all of these fly-ins and at Oshkosh,
in
the midst of some of the world`s greatest designers, pilots and airplanes,
Alvin held court, talking about his airplane and propellers.
I've been away from airplanes for a few years, and I hadn't seen Alvin in
many years. But recently I've been drawn back to airplanes and flying. Last=20year
I purchased a set of plans for the Evans Volksplane_a proven, simple design
that I figure even I can build. I also recently acquired a 1600-cc VW Super
Beetle engine. With the right propeller I should be able to get a good 50
horsepower or so from it. (I know that my wife loves me because this past Valentines
Day she stuck a wad of cash in my hand, gave me a kiss and said, "Happy
Valentines Day! Go get that engine for your airplane!")
I once thought about building a second Fledermaus, if only Alvin had made a
set of plans. Ironically, on Saturday, March 9th, the very day that Alvin
passed from this life=E2=80=94"Gone West" as World War I aviators would say=E2=80=94I
was visiting
a fellow over near Winona (Minn.) who is nearly ready to fly his homebuilt
plane. It's a real Cadillac for a homebuilt. With a 160-horsepower Lycoming
engine it will cruise at nearly 170 miles per hour. Like any bunch of pilots
standing around talking about airplanes, our conversation got around to the=20subject
of propellers and then, of course, to Alvin Schubert. And so we talked about
Alvin and his self-taught skills as a propeller maker and airplane builder.
I said, "Yep, I'll have to get over to see Alvin one of these days and ask
him what propeller he recommends for a Volksplane=E2=80=94maybe he'd even carve
a prop
for me." On Monday morning, March 11, I saw the notice of Alvin's passing in
the newspaper.
I suspect that had I contacted Alvin several months ago, he would have
recommended just the right propeller diameter and pitch, with a little finer pitch
for more zip on those warm summer day takeoffs. More likely, Alvin would have
taken the time to teach me how to figure out for myself the correct diameter
and pitch for a given RPM, horsepower and airspeed. And then he would have
taught me how to carve that propeller. Alvin was firm believer in self-reliance.
Building and flying your own airplane is perhaps the ultimate expression of
self-reliance.
As far as I know, Alvin never lived anywhere but on his farm. Some might even
say that he never really got out and experienced life. I disagree. Here on
the ground what we do with our life is, for the most part, up to us. We can=20even
drift along day to day with few serious consequences. But up there, how well
you built your plane, how well you fly it, and the decisions you make, totally
determine whether it's a successful flight or a disaster. Up there, life
itself is in one's own hands. Richard Bach once wrote, "Why do we fly? We fly to
know what it is to be alive!"
Some say that Alvin never kept real close track of how many total flying
hours he had accumulated flying Der Fledermaus and that he only kept track of how
many takeoffs and landings they had made. I don't know if that's true, but
it's just like Alvin. What difference does it make how many hours are spent=20aloft
when what's important is whether you got off the ground in the first place,
and even more critically, whether you were able to successfully land once
again?
Forever more, Alvin has now logged one more take-off than landing. I'm sure
that he's out at some little flying field where the grass is always green, the
sky is perpetually blue with "severe clear" visibility, and there's a light
breeze that never varies from straight down the runway=E2=80=94always a perfect
day for
flying. I`d also bet that Alvin's probably got St. Peter and a squadron of
angels cornered over at the hangar teaching them all a thing or two that even
they didn't know about flying and aerodynamics. Maybe even how to carve a
propeller. Happy landings, Alvin!
###
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Requirement |
oops.... I meant part 43. And if installed, the inspector should include it
in the annual inspection. But the installation is not required under part 43,
so its not the inspectors responsibility to check for it.
(i) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall inspect
(where applicable) the following components of the radio group: (1) Radio and
electronic equipment=E2=80=94for improper installation and insecure mounting. (2)
Wiring
and conduits=E2=80=94for improper routing, insecure mounting, and obvious defects.
(3)
Bonding and shielding=E2=80=94for improper installation and poor condition.=20(4)
Antenna including trailing antenna=E2=80=94for poor condition, insecure mounting,
and
improper operation. (j) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection
shall inspect (where applicable) each installed miscellaneous item that is not
otherwise covered by this listing for improper installation and improper
operation.
The requirement to ensure an ELT is on board and operational is the
responsibility of the pilot under part 41.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Al Schubert, Al Kelch... |
Frederick,
Wow....thanks for sharing this with our group. Alvin must have been a joy of
a person to spend time around. I only hope someday someone looks back at my
life with half as much respect.
GOOD STUFF.
TLB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Requirement |
Funny My IA not will not approve plane's return to flight status without one which
must have an indate battery installed.
----- Original Message -----
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ELT Requirement
oops.... I meant part 43. And if installed, the inspector should include it
in the annual inspection. But the installation is not required under part 43,
so its not the inspectors responsibility to check for it.
(i) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall inspect (where
applicable) the following components of the radio group: (1) Radio and electronic
equipment=E2=80=94for improper installation and insecure mounting. (2)
Wiring and conduits=E2=80=94for improper routing, insecure mounting, and obvious
defects. (3) Bonding and shielding=E2=80=94for improper installation and poor
condition. (4) Antenna including trailing antenna=E2=80=94for poor condition,
insecure mounting, and improper operation. (j) Each person performing an annual
or 100-hour inspection shall inspect (where applicable) each installed miscellaneous
item that is not otherwise covered by this listing for improper installation
and improper operation.
The requirement to ensure an ELT is on board and operational is the responsibility
of the pilot under part 41.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Since says inspected, My IA says it is his responsibility.
(d) Each emergency locator transmitter required by paragraph (a) of this section
must be inspected within 12 calendar months after the last inspection for --
(1) Proper installation;
(2) Battery corrosion;
(3) Operation of the controls and crash sensor; and
(4) The presence of a sufficient signal radiated from its antenna.
----- Original Message -----
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 10:37 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ELT rule
Heres the rule on ELTs under Part 91. Pilot's responsibility.
=C2=A7 91.207 Emergency locator transmitters.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (e) and (f) of this section, no person may
operate a U.S.-registered civil airplane unless=E2=80=94
(1) There is attached to the airplane an approved automatic type emergency locator
transmitter that is in operable condition for the following operations,
except that after June 21, 1995, an emergency locator transmitter that meets the
requirements of TSO-C91 may not be used for new installations:
(i) Those operations governed by the supplemental air carrier and commercial
operator rules of parts 121 and 125;
(ii) Charter flights governed by the domestic and flag air carrier rules of part
121 of this chapter; and
(iii) Operations governed by part 135 of this chapter; or
(2) For operations other than those specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section,
there must be attached to the airplane an approved personal type or an approved
automatic type emergency locator transmitter that is in operable condition,
except that after June 21, 1995, an emergency locator transmitter that meets
the requirements of TSO-C91 may not be used for new installations.
(b) Each emergency locator transmitter required by paragraph (a) of this section
must be attached to the airplane in such a manner that the probability of
damage to the transmitter in the event of crash impact is minimized. Fixed and
deployable automatic type transmitters must be attached to the airplane as far
aft as practicable.
(c) Batteries used in the emergency locator transmitters required by paragraphs
(a) and (b) of this section must be replaced (or recharged, if the batteries
are rechargeable)=E2=80=94
(1) When the transmitter has been in use for more than 1 cumulative hour; or
(2) When 50 percent of their useful life (or, for rechargeable batteries, 50
percent of their useful life of charge) has expired, as established by the transmitter
manufacturer under its approval.
The new expiration date for replacing (or recharging) the battery must be legibly
marked on the outside of the transmitter and entered in the aircraft maintenance
record. Paragraph (c)(2) of this section does not apply to batteries (such
as water-activated batteries) that are essentially unaffected during probable
storage intervals.
(d) Each emergency locator transmitter required by paragraph (a) of this section
must be inspected within 12 calendar months after the last inspection for=E2=80=94
(1) Proper installation;
(2) Battery corrosion;
(3) Operation of the controls and crash sensor; and
(4) The presence of a sufficient signal radiated from its antenna.
(e) Notwithstanding paragraph (a) of this section, a person may=E2=80=94
(1) Ferry a newly acquired airplane from the place where possession of it was
taken to a place where the emergency locator transmitter is to be installed;
and
(2) Ferry an airplane with an inoperative emergency locator transmitter from
a place where repairs or replacements cannot be made to a place where they can
be made.
No person other than required crewmembers may be carried aboard an airplane being
ferried under paragraph (e) of this section.
(f) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to=E2=80=94
(1) Before January 1, 2004, turbojet-powered aircraft;
(2) Aircraft while engaged in scheduled flights by scheduled air carriers;
(3) Aircraft while engaged in training operations conducted entirely within a
50-nautical mile radius of the airport from which such local flight operations
began;
(4) Aircraft while engaged in flight operations incident to design and testing;
(5) New aircraft while engaged in flight operations incident to their manufacture,
preparation, and delivery;
(6) Aircraft while engaged in flight operations incident to the aerial application
of chemicals and other substances for agricultural purposes;
(7) Aircraft certificated by the Administrator for research and development purposes;
(8) Aircraft while used for showing compliance with regulations, crew training,
exhibition, air racing, or market surveys;
(9) Aircraft equipped to carry not more than one person.
(10) An aircraft during any period for which the transmitter has been temporarily
removed for inspection, repair, modification, or replacement, subject to
the following:
(i) No person may operate the aircraft unless the aircraft records contain an
entry which includes the date of initial removal, the make, model, serial number,
and reason for removing the transmitter, and a placard located in view of
the pilot to show =E2=80=9CELT not installed.=E2=80=9D
(ii) No person may operate the aircraft more than 90 days after the ELT is initially
removed from the aircraft; and
(11) On and after January 1, 2004, aircraft with a maximum payload capacity of
more than 18,000 pounds when used in air transportation.
[Doc. No. 18334, 54 FR 34304, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91=E2=80=93242,
59 FR 32057, June 21, 1994; 59 FR 34578, July 6, 1994; Amdt. 91=E2=80=93265,
65 FR 81319, Dec. 22, 2000; 66 FR 16316, Mar. 23, 2001]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Requirement |
As I read the regs, an inspector shouldn't withold signature for an annual
inspection because of a lack of ELT. Its not his responsibility. If one is
there, he should inspect it to make sure the installation is proper and doesn't
interfere with operation of other installed equipment. But he cannot get
written up for any violation for returning an aircraft to service without an ELT.
On the other hand, the pilot could get written up for operating an airplane
without an ELT as required under Part 91.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
> =C2=A7 91.207 Emergency locator transmitters.
> (a) Except as provided in paragraphs (e) and (f) of this section, no person
> may operate a U.S.-registered civil airplane unless=E2=80=94
Part 91 rules do not apply to the inspector. It applies to persons operating
the airplane. Who will be violating the regulation for operating without an
ELT? Who will be violating the regulation if one is not installed? Who will
be violating the regulation if it is not inspected? The Pilot.
The pilot should do the inspection, check it for proper operation and proper
distress signal, etc... And the Pilot should make the log entry that it was
done.
=C2=A7 91.1 Applicability.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section and =C2=A7=C2=A791.701
and 91.703, this part prescribes rules governing the operation of aircraft
(other than moored balloons, kites, unmanned rockets, and unmanned free
balloons, which are governed by part 101 of this chapter, and ultralight vehicles
operated in accordance with part 103 of this chapter) within the United States,
including the waters within 3 nautical miles of the U.S. coast.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Sloan <alexms1(at)comcast.net> |
Thanks Greg, I have followed up on your suggestion.
Alex
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Bacon [SMTP:gbacon67(at)direcway.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
Alex,
You may want to check on this, but I think Bernie's Corvair was a 70HP.
Your 95HP engine might perform a little better with more pitch. William
Wynne will know. www.flycorvair.com
Greg Bacon
Missouri
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
>
> Thanks Peter,
> That is what I needed to know.
> Alex Sloan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter W Johnson [SMTP:vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au]
> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 6:46 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
>
>
> Alex,
>
> According to "How I Make Wood Propellers" by Al Schubert, the prop was 63
> inch diameter by 35 inch pitch at the tips. Al made two props for Bernie's
> Corvair powered Piet.
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> Wonthaggi, Australia
> http://www.cpc-world.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alex Sloan
> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 10:26 AM
> To: 'Pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propellars
>
>
> Friends,
> I am ready to mount my 95 H.P. Corvair engine on the test stand I built to
> Pat Panzera's specs. Question is, what size and pitch prop is
recommended.
> I cannot find what prop Mr. Pietenpol used on his Corvair powered
> Pietenpol. I recall reading he wished he had a different pitch. Does
> anyone recall what he used? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> Thanks for the assistance.
> Alex Sloan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | Al Schubert, Al Kelch... |
Thank you for sharing Alvin with us. I have been too busy lately to read
all of the posts or reply, let alone play with my Piet project.
Inspiring stories like this one about Alvin are really good inspiration
not to give up to the demands of today's busy world.
My regards to you on the list,
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
TBYH(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Al Schubert, Al Kelch...
I was pleased to see Alvin Schubert's name mentioned in reference to
propeller carving and his book "How I Carve Propellers." Some of you my
know that Alvin passed a few years ago. Following is a piece that I
wrote shortly after Alvins passing for the Galesville Republican
newspaper. At the time I was considering building a Volksplane, but once
again, I came back to the Pietenpol instead. In fact, at Alvin's estate
sale, I purchased the Pietenpol plans that Alvin had purchased back in
1968. Anyway, here's my tribute to Alvin...
I should also mention that Al Kelch, who kept his magnificent collection
of antique airplanes at Brodhead, passed away this last week on Sept.
21. See EAA's latest "Hotline."
Last Flight: Alvin Schubert Remembered
By Frederick Beseler, La Crosse, WI
We lost a good friend when Alvin Schubert, rural Trempealeau, (Wis.)
passed away on March 9th, 2002, at 85 years of age. Alvin grew up during
aviation's Golden Age when pioneers like Lindbergh, Byrd, Hughes, Post,
Doolittle, Earhart, Cochrane and Wittman blazed new trails across the
sky-faster, farther and higher. "Pushing the envelope," as the test
pilots say. They inspired a whole generation of kids like Alvin to get
into aviation.
Alvin was born in Genoa, Wisconsin, in 1916. His family later settled on
the farm near Trempealeau where Alvin lived his entire life. I first
encountered Alvin when I was a kid, growing up in Trempealeau. I was
always building gas-powered model planes-control-line planes that go
around in circles on the end of 40-foot long strings. My buddy, Claus
Ryder, and I flew the planes in the small field below my parent's house
on West Second Street. Around 1970 or so I decided to try free-flight
modeling and so I built a balsa wood model of a Piper Cub that was
powered by a little gas engine. Unlike control line models, free flight
model planes require a large, treeless field from which to fly. One hot
summer I pedaled my bicycle out of Trempealeau towards Centerville until
finally I found a nice big, wide-open field just perfect for flying a
free flight model plane.
With a free flight model you set the rudder for a right turn, gas it up,
start the engine and let her go. If successful, the airplane spirals
upwards, circling left due to the propeller torque. Once the engine runs
out of fuel and quits, it should glide slowly down, turning right in
response to the bend in the rudder. Technicalities aside, you mostly
pray that the model and all your hard work and the then
expensive-for-a-kid $5.98 gas engine, doesn't simply fly straight away
to the next county, never to be found. There was no danger of my Cub
flying over the rainbow on that day. She took off and climbed away okay,
but once the engine quit the model went into a nasty, ever-tightening
spiral and bored straight down into the soft farm field. Test pilots
call it "auguring in."
While cleaning the dirt from the engine I noticed a farmer coming across
the field, heading straight for me. No doubt it was the owner of the
land that I was using for a flying field. I began packing up my tools,
ignition battery and fuel as I was certain that he would chase me out of
his fields.
"Nice day for flying, isn't it?" he asked. "I believe that you need to
bend the right aileron down just a little bit, and maybe bend the
elevator up just a little_then she should fly pretty well!"
I was amazed and astonished. First, he hadn't told me to get the heck
off his land. Second, he spoke "airplane." But then I thought, "Who is
this old farmer in the baggy coveralls, and how on earth would he know
anything about flying and aerodynamics?"
Appearances are deceiving. I soon learned that Alvin Schubert knew more
about airplanes and aerodynamics than anyone else I ever knew. He was
Valedictorian of the Class of 1938 at Galesville High School and he was
forever and always tinkering with mechanical gadgets and engines. For
example, Alvin had built a couple of tractors and then a working
electrical generator for the family farm long before the power company
came along. (Over the years I often wondered what this latter day Wright
Brother would have accomplished had he gone on to college.)
We got the model Cub fixed up and flying. He thoroughly enjoyed watching
that little model fly. Standing there with his hands in the pockets of
his bib coveralls, looking skyward as the tiny yellow plane floated
upwards, Alvin said, "Well, you know, a model airplane obeys the same
laws of flight that a full size airplane does."
Alvin admitted that he had "monkeyed around with airplanes a little, now
and then." He had done more than "monkey around." Alvin knew about
flying and aerodynamics and how to build an airplane just as surely as
William Boeing and Donald Douglas knew how to build airplanes. We
walked over to one of his farm sheds. Alvin rolled the old weathered
barn door open. Lo and behold, nestled among the straw bales was a real
airplane! It was a trim little single-seat, all-silver plane that Alvin
had designed and then built with his own two hands. It had a 21-foot
wingspan and was powered by an early 36-horsepower Volkswagen engine,
which was about the only thing on it that Alvin hadn't built from
scratch. Even the propeller was designed and carved by Alvin.
"I call her Der Fledermaus. Just step up right there, swing your leg
into the cockpit and then you can sit in her," said Alvin.
I asked if it actually flew. Alvin replied, "Well...yep...she flies
pretty well...cruises along pretty fast on 36 horsepower. Well...I'm
going to carve a new propeller with a little finer pitch to give her a
little more zip on takeoff. Let's start her up."
Before I could jump out, Alvin gave the propeller a couple flips and
away she went, the little four-cylinder VW engine barking away through
the stubby exhaust stacks. The wind from the propeller blew our hair.
Alvin`s eyes sparkled. I was sitting at the controls of a real, running
airplane! No disrespect to Der Fledermaus, but I recall looking through
the Plexiglas windscreen and for a moment imagining that I was sitting
in a World War II Spitfire or P-47 Thunderbolt.
And then I remember thinking that I'd have to keep the whole experience
a secret as I knew that my parents wouldn't care for the idea of their
kid at the controls of a real, running airplane-much less a homemade
airplane!
That little plane truly was, and is, an engineering marvel. With only
three times the horsepower of the Wright Brothers` plane, Alvin's plane
is capable of cruising at nearly 100 miles per hour.
I told Alvin that I had lived in Trempealeau nearly all my life and
never knew that he had an airplane and a grass runway just outside of
town. He said, laughing, "Well...I don't like much publicity. When
people hear that you built your own airplane, well...some folks think
you're some kind of a crazy fool!"
Even as a kid, I empathized with Alvin. I understood. Many people
thought I was kind of goofy the way I was always building and flying
model airplanes (30 years later I still build model planes on
occasion!). To me Alvin seemed like just another big kid fooling around
with airplanes-the only difference was the horsepower, wingspan and
payload.
What a wonderful August afternoon out at Alvin's flying field, 32 years
ago. The sun was hot and the summer air smelled of fresh-cut hay-and the
possibility of flight!
I got my pilot's license several years later in a 150-horsepower Piper
Super Cub. On weekends I'd hop around to various fly-in pancake
breakfasts, or over to The Big Show: the Experimental Aircraft
Association's (EAA) Fly-In and Convention held at Oshkosh each August.
At all of these fly-ins and at Oshkosh, in the midst of some of the
world`s greatest designers, pilots and airplanes, Alvin held court,
talking about his airplane and propellers.
I've been away from airplanes for a few years, and I hadn't seen Alvin
in many years. But recently I've been drawn back to airplanes and
flying. Last year I purchased a set of plans for the Evans Volksplane_a
proven, simple design that I figure even I can build. I also recently
acquired a 1600-cc VW Super Beetle engine. With the right propeller I
should be able to get a good 50 horsepower or so from it. (I know that
my wife loves me because this past Valentines Day she stuck a wad of
cash in my hand, gave me a kiss and said, "Happy Valentines Day! Go get
that engine for your airplane!")
I once thought about building a second Fledermaus, if only Alvin had
made a set of plans. Ironically, on Saturday, March 9th, the very day
that Alvin passed from this life-"Gone West" as World War I aviators
would say-I was visiting a fellow over near Winona (Minn.) who is nearly
ready to fly his homebuilt plane. It's a real Cadillac for a homebuilt.
With a 160-horsepower Lycoming engine it will cruise at nearly 170 miles
per hour. Like any bunch of pilots standing around talking about
airplanes, our conversation got around to the subject of propellers and
then, of course, to Alvin Schubert. And so we talked about Alvin and his
self-taught skills as a propeller maker and airplane builder.
I said, "Yep, I'll have to get over to see Alvin one of these days and
ask him what propeller he recommends for a Volksplane-maybe he'd even
carve a prop for me." On Monday morning, March 11, I saw the notice of
Alvin's passing in the newspaper.
I suspect that had I contacted Alvin several months ago, he would have
recommended just the right propeller diameter and pitch, with a little
finer pitch for more zip on those warm summer day takeoffs. More likely,
Alvin would have taken the time to teach me how to figure out for myself
the correct diameter and pitch for a given RPM, horsepower and airspeed.
And then he would have taught me how to carve that propeller. Alvin was
firm believer in self-reliance. Building and flying your own airplane is
perhaps the ultimate expression of self-reliance.
As far as I know, Alvin never lived anywhere but on his farm. Some might
even say that he never really got out and experienced life. I disagree.
Here on the ground what we do with our life is, for the most part, up to
us. We can even drift along day to day with few serious consequences.
But up there, how well you built your plane, how well you fly it, and
the decisions you make, totally determine whether it's a successful
flight or a disaster. Up there, life itself is in one's own hands.
Richard Bach once wrote, "Why do we fly? We fly to know what it is to be
alive!"
Some say that Alvin never kept real close track of how many total flying
hours he had accumulated flying Der Fledermaus and that he only kept
track of how many takeoffs and landings they had made. I don't know if
that's true, but it's just like Alvin. What difference does it make how
many hours are spent aloft when what's important is whether you got off
the ground in the first place, and even more critically, whether you
were able to successfully land once again?
Forever more, Alvin has now logged one more take-off than landing. I'm
sure that he's out at some little flying field where the grass is always
green, the sky is perpetually blue with "severe clear" visibility, and
there's a light breeze that never varies from straight down the
runway-always a perfect day for flying. I`d also bet that Alvin's
probably got St. Peter and a squadron of angels cornered over at the
hangar teaching them all a thing or two that even they didn't know about
flying and aerodynamics. Maybe even how to carve a propeller. Happy
landings, Alvin!
###
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Al Schubert, Al Kelch... |
I remember attending several Pietenpol Forums at Oshkosh in the 1980's. Fellow
Pietenpol builder Roy Wadson and I particularly remember Al Schubert and his great
sense of humor at those forums. He had the group in stitches when he spoke
or commented on a particular point, and he always had our undivided attention
waiting for the next "zinger".
He was a veritable fount of information about propellers and airplanes. Roy and
I still talk about Al Schubert at those forums and we will never forget him.
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta, Canada)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | IFR in a Pietenpol |
I did a flight yesterday that I just had to pass along to the Piet group. I
departed Cook Airfield to the Southwest, following the RR tracks. I saw 3 hot
air balloons on the ground, ready to launch. I could see the flames going on
and off every few seconds, so I entered a pattern overhead, at about 4 or 5
hundred feet, and blew a BIG smoke ring around the balloons for them to go up
through !! The smoke ring hung in there very well in the no wind condition,
till I completed the circuit, as the first balloon launched. It also served
them to tell which way the wind was blowing up there. Then I picked up the
Arkansas River, and dropped down to the deck, less than 100 feet above the water,
and followed the river for about 30 miles. I saw lots of deer, and birds, and
a beaver, but didn't see a single person along the entire length of the river
flight. Gives the meaning to IFR - 'I Follow Rivers' !! Steep bank turns,
maintaining 70 mph on the indicator, just below the tree tops for much of the
flight, to follow the sharp turns in the river...Way Cool !! There are 3
places where wires cross the river, and 2 bridges, which I'll have to note more
carefully on subsequent flights. It's a somewhat shallow river, with lots of
sand bars to make an emergency landing. The river carries away lots of sand and
silt, much to the farmers dismay. Down below Oxford, I pulled up out of the
river bottom, and saw a crop duster just turn off the sprayer bar, and pull up
vertical. Stayed out of his way, and made the return trip up the river. The
balloons were all down in a different field, about 20 feet off the ground.
They stayed very close to each other for their whole flight. I think this IFR
course is going to be a regular !! What a Hoot !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx |
Hi Alex
I am using on a homemade 64*32 wood prop and is working ok, 2900 static
rpm's (not flying)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx |
Hi Piets
The first prop that i used was homemade 66x38 with ths prop just I can
get 2550 rpm's static , after to read the Mr Alvin prop manual I made a
64x32 with the shape of the picture of Oscar Zuiga Prop, much better,
2950 static rpm's, that with avgas...
Javier Cruz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
<001701c4a2b2$7bca7240$edf61e41@ATO>
| Subject: | Re: ELT Requirement |
Greg
Did you remember to include the name of the DAR that you selected. The woman at
the desk at MIDO left my paperwork sit because I didn't include it.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ELT Requirement
It appears to be required but a lot of people do without. It doesn't seem to
be rigidly enforced.
P.S. Turned in the paperwork to the local MIDO office requesting the final inspection.
I hope the good weather holds out through October.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Bacon
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ELT Requirement
Greg,
My Corben Jr. Ace didn't have one and it passed two annual inspections with
no questions about an ELT. Are you sure it's required for homebuilts? Is it
a new requirement?
Greg Bacon
Missouri
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ELT Requirement
Guys,
Who has or has not installed an ELT? It appears that it is required by the
regs but I don't hear much on the list.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I went out for a couple of hours today. A perfect calm, cool day so clear you
can see forever. This week I had installed a new windshield. The wind had been
hitting the top of my head coming over the shield. I cut this one 2 1/2" higher
and a bit wider at the top. I was suprised at how much difference that
makes. I cut down on the noise on the radio and is a lot calmer in the cockpit.
Also, I posted my problem with the airspeed indicator a few weeks ago. That turned
out to be the guage itself, the new one works fine.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Starting the Model A |
In a message dated 9/24/2004 8:04:48 PM Central Standard Time,
wacopitts(at)yahoo.com writes:
Does anyone with Model A
Piets use Mystery Oil in their gas?
Wouldn't leave home without it. Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting the Model A |
I agree Don. I have flown with Mystery Oil for years.
Started using it in the Kinner radials then began
using it in 0200's and C-85's. All with auto gas. I
search for auto gas without ethanol though. The
Mystery Oil is good in the crank case too. Lubricates
better than just straight engine oil alone. Doc
--- Waytogopiet(at)aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 9/24/2004 8:04:48 PM Central
> Standard Time,
> wacopitts(at)yahoo.com writes:
> Does anyone with Model A
> Piets use Mystery Oil in their gas?
> Wouldn't leave home without it. Don
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edwin Johnson <elj(at)shreve.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol-List Digest: ELT Requirement |
> Who has or has not installed an ELT? It appears that it is required by
> the regs but I don't hear much on the list.
>
> Greg Cardinal
The reg is 91.207 and it is pretty well spelled out there - no guess work.
The ELT is an 'operational' requirement and not an 'equipment for
certification' requirement. _All_ US-registered planes must have them for
flight with a few exceptions, and here is are the outs which might
pertain:
(f)(3) Aircraft while engaged in training operations conducted entirely
within a 50-nautical-mile radius of the airport from which such flight
operations began;
(f)(4) Aircraft while engaged in flight operations incident to design and
testing;
(f)(9) Aircraft equipped to carry not more than one person;
You can easily look at the whole thing by going to www.faa.gov and
following the links for regulations.
(So how long and how much 'design and testing' in (f)(4) do you have?
)
...Edwin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Edwin Johnson ....... elj(at)shreve.net ~
~ http://www.shreve.net/~elj ~
~ ~
~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the ~
~ earth with your eyes turned skyward, ~
~ for there you have been, there you long ~
~ to return." -- da Vinci ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
<001701c4a2b2$7bca7240$edf61e41@ATO> <006101c4a36a$9fe21030$0600a8c0@laptop>
| Subject: | Re: ELT Requirement |
Yes, I requested Tim Mahoney. One of the volunteer AB-DAR's who works out of St.
Cloud. The woman at the desk reminded me to include his name.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ELT Requirement
Greg
Did you remember to include the name of the DAR that you selected. The woman
at the desk at MIDO left my paperwork sit because I didn't include it.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ELT Requirement
It appears to be required but a lot of people do without. It doesn't seem to
be rigidly enforced.
P.S. Turned in the paperwork to the local MIDO office requesting the final
inspection. I hope the good weather holds out through October.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Bacon
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ELT Requirement
Greg,
My Corben Jr. Ace didn't have one and it passed two annual inspections with
no questions about an ELT. Are you sure it's required for homebuilts? Is
it a new requirement?
Greg Bacon
Missouri
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ELT Requirement
Guys,
Who has or has not installed an ELT? It appears that it is required by
the regs but I don't hear much on the list.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Morris <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com> |
Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
| Subject: | "How I carve Propellers" |
Hi.
We've talked about the author. Is there any source for the book? (I
tried downloading from the flying flea web site, but with my slow flakey
internet connection, I just finally gave up.)
-Don
javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx wrote:
>
>
>Hi Piets
>
>The first prop that i used was homemade 66x38 with ths prop just I can
>get 2550 rpm's static , after to read the Mr Alvin prop manual I made a
>64x32 with the shape of the picture of Oscar Zuiga Prop, much better,
>2950 static rpm's, that with avgas...
>Javier Cruz
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Hegy prop for a Corvair, and carb questions. |
I have a chance to buy a Hegy prop for a Corvair engine for $500. Don't have
the stats for the prop, other than it has never been installed. I've been told
this prop is the correct pitch, etc. and perfect for a Corvair pumping out
100+ horsepower.
Does $500 sound like a fair price? I'm not familiar with pricing and props
for a Corvair. I've heard that Hegy (builder from Marfa, TX).
Lastly, I'm contemplating installing a Corvair in a Piet. I was impressed
with the Corvairs I saw flying at Brodhead this year. But, having had a bad
experience with a Mosler 82X a few years ago, I'm reluctant to go back to a car
engine.
What I didn't like about the 82X (souped up VW with Scat Racing Heads, beefy
crank and a hot camshaft) was a funky carb set up, no mixture control and
ultimately NO RELIABILITY. In addition, the Mosler could not produce any power
at
2,800 RPM and it really needed a reduction drive in order to get the
power-band and prop working where they both were happy. (I tried a number of different
props, and 2 different 82X engines, but the problem was with the Mosler and
funky non-aviation carb.
Is there a faithful carb with mixture control for the Corvair set up? What
about dual mags for a Corvair?
Thanks.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hegy prop for a Corvair, and carb questions. |
you will need more info before you can decide on that prop.... someone telling
you it is the perfect prop for a 110+ hp 'Vair means nothing. Yeah.. it may
be the perfect prop for a Corvair.... a 54X60 is a great prop for a Corvair.
it will absorb the power nicely.. but only for a plane that will cruise at 120+mph.
It would be useless on a Piet. I doubt it would even get airborne with
any level of safety. Also remember it needs to be a reverse direction prop
(unless you go with a reverse camshaft)
You want a prop that's gonna let you cruise around 75-80 or so at about 2400rpm.
This is a ballpark figure as I have no direct experience... it just seems
about right to me. You'll want a diameter around 62 to 66" with a pitch around
36 to 30" respectively. again... ballpark numbers
$500 sounds good. I paid $550 shipped to my door from Tennesee prop. They custom
build the prop to order. They use 1/16" laminations. There are 48 of them.
Most prop makers use 1/2" laminations. more laminations means a stiffer
stronger prop..... and some may think a more beautiful looking prop. You'll
also want to make sure the prop is through-bored to allow the William Wynne safetyshaft
to clear.
Do you have William Wynne's Corvair Conversion manual?
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 10:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hegy prop for a Corvair, and carb questions.
I have a chance to buy a Hegy prop for a Corvair engine for $500. Don't have
the stats for the prop, other than it has never been installed. I've been told
this prop is the correct pitch, etc. and perfect for a Corvair pumping out 100+
horsepower.
Does $500 sound like a fair price? I'm not familiar with pricing and props for
a Corvair. I've heard that Hegy (builder from Marfa, TX).
Lastly, I'm contemplating installing a Corvair in a Piet. I was impressed with
the Corvairs I saw flying at Brodhead this year. But, having had a bad experience
with a Mosler 82X a few years ago, I'm reluctant to go back to a car engine.
What I didn't like about the 82X (souped up VW with Scat Racing Heads, beefy
crank and a hot camshaft) was a funky carb set up, no mixture control and ultimately
NO RELIABILITY. In addition, the Mosler could not produce any power at
2,800 RPM and it really needed a reduction drive in order to get the power-band
and prop working where they both were happy. (I tried a number of different
props, and 2 different 82X engines, but the problem was with the Mosler and
funky non-aviation carb.
Is there a faithful carb with mixture control for the Corvair set up? What about
dual mags for a Corvair?
Thanks.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hegy prop for a Corvair, and carb questions. |
forgot to address a couple other questions in your email
as for concern about using a Corvair... just let that concern fade away. The
Cirvair is practically an Aero engine. It's closer to an Aero engine than any
other auto engine is... period. In about 8 months I'll have mine flying
and you can come out and fly it/see it anytime you want.
Dual mags can be done on a Corvair. I've seen it. It takes a tremendous amount
of re-engineering and machining. In my opinion it's not worth it. If you convert
the engine to William Wynne specs you will have dual redundancy in the
components of the ignition that fail.... the coil and points. I have dual points
in my distributor and I have 2 coils connected by a solid state auto coil
switch. If one coil should fail the switch automatically changes to the other
coil. Points never fail suddenly. It's usually a slow process that can be detected.
2 plugs are not needed in a Corvair like they are in an Aero engine. Look at an
Aero engine..... large displacement... there's alot of volume to ignite. You
need 2 plugs just to ignite and burn all the fuel... that's why a mag check
gives you a drop in RPM. there's raw fuel not being ignited by the 2nd plug.
Now in a Corvair where the volume is less there's just no need for a 2nd plug.
Even if you did have dual mags with 2 plugs in each cylinder I doubt a mag check
would show much of an RPM drop.
Sure there's an element of redundancy with dual mags but you are getting the same
redundancy with dual coils/points. The point of failure is usually not spark
plug wires or the spark plugs themselves. And of course... there's the need
for a battery to power the ignition with coil/points. yes.. if the battery
goes dead so does the engine, but that's not likely to happen and there are ways
to add in redundancy there if desired.
There are thousands of proven flight hours with Corvairs built to WW specs.
As for carbs.... you can't go wrong with a Marvel MA3-SPA. I am using a Stromberg
NAS-3A1 with mixture control, but there is large debate on how effective
the mixture really is on that carb.
DJ
----- Orginal Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 10:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hegy prop for a Corvair, and carb questions.
I have a chance to buy a Hegy prop for a Corvair engine for $500. Don't have
the stats for the prop, other than it has never been installed. I've been told
this prop is the correct pitch, etc. and perfect for a Corvair pumping out 100+
horsepower.
Does $500 sound like a fair price? I'm not familiar with pricing and props for
a Corvair. I've heard that Hegy (builder from Marfa, TX).
Lastly, I'm contemplating installing a Corvair in a Piet. I was impressed with
the Corvairs I saw flying at Brodhead this year. But, having had a bad experience
with a Mosler 82X a few years ago, I'm reluctant to go back to a car engine.
What I didn't like about the 82X (souped up VW with Scat Racing Heads, beefy
crank and a hot camshaft) was a funky carb set up, no mixture control and ultimately
NO RELIABILITY. In addition, the Mosler could not produce any power at
2,800 RPM and it really needed a reduction drive in order to get the power-band
and prop working where they both were happy. (I tried a number of different
props, and 2 different 82X engines, but the problem was with the Mosler and
funky non-aviation carb.
Is there a faithful carb with mixture control for the Corvair set up? What about
dual mags for a Corvair?
Thanks.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 9/26/04 12:43:14 PM Central Daylight Time, djv(at)imagedv.com
writes:
<< I paid $550 shipped to my door from Tennesee prop. They custom build the
prop to order. They use 1/16" laminations. There are 48 of them. >>
DJ,
What type of adhesive does Tennesee Props use ?
The 'Wood Airplane Guru' in our area says T88 is hard on his planner
blades, so he uses Aeropoxy on his props. I've built 3 props, two for the Model
A, and one for the Continental. The first one for the Model A used Aeropoxy,
but I could chistle it apart at the glue joints. I used T88 on the next two.
I've been wanting to carve a Scimitar Prop for my Pietenpol, using the
methods in the book 'How to Carve a Prop' by Eric Clutton. Does anyone have any
infomation on someone that used his methods for carving a Scimitar Prop ?
Chuck G.
p.s. We've got some beautiful weather today in Kansas, so it's time to -
Kick the Tires,
Twang the Wires,
and Light the Fires !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
I'm not sure what adhesive Tennessee Props uses. But I am very very happy
with the quality of workmanship. Flight data still to be proven, but
appearance and quality are top notch. They also put a nice Urethane leading
edge on it (outter 2/3 of the blade) for an addition $50. Out here in the
desert where dirt strips are everywhere it was a no-brainer to get that
option.
I ran it on the test stand up to 2900rpm and it tracked perfectly.
I'll try to give them a call and see what they use.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop Stuff
>
> In a message dated 9/26/04 12:43:14 PM Central Daylight Time,
djv(at)imagedv.com
> writes:
>
> << I paid $550 shipped to my door from Tennesee prop. They custom build
the
> prop to order. They use 1/16" laminations. There are 48 of them. >>
>
>
> DJ,
> What type of adhesive does Tennesee Props use ?
> The 'Wood Airplane Guru' in our area says T88 is hard on his planner
> blades, so he uses Aeropoxy on his props. I've built 3 props, two for the
Model
> A, and one for the Continental. The first one for the Model A used
Aeropoxy,
> but I could chistle it apart at the glue joints. I used T88 on the next
two.
> I've been wanting to carve a Scimitar Prop for my Pietenpol, using the
> methods in the book 'How to Carve a Prop' by Eric Clutton. Does anyone
have any
> infomation on someone that used his methods for carving a Scimitar Prop ?
>
> Chuck G.
> p.s. We've got some beautiful weather today in Kansas, so it's time to -
> Kick the Tires,
> Twang the Wires,
> and Light the Fires !!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Hegy prop for a Corvair, and carb questions. |
I different with your failure of points. They have and they do break... sudden
stop!
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hegy prop for a Corvair, and carb questions.
forgot to address a couple other questions in your email
as for concern about using a Corvair... just let that concern fade away.
The Cirvair is practically an Aero engine. It's closer to an Aero engine than
any other auto engine is... period. In about 8 months I'll have mine flying
and you can come out and fly it/see it anytime you want.
Dual mags can be done on a Corvair. I've seen it. It takes a tremendous amount
of re-engineering and machining. In my opinion it's not worth it. If you
convert the engine to William Wynne specs you will have dual redundancy in the
components of the ignition that fail.... the coil and points. I have dual points
in my distributor and I have 2 coils connected by a solid state auto coil
switch. If one coil should fail the switch automatically changes to the other
coil. Points never fail suddenly. It's usually a slow process that can be
detected.
2 plugs are not needed in a Corvair like they are in an Aero engine. Look at
an Aero engine..... large displacement... there's alot of volume to ignite.
You need 2 plugs just to ignite and burn all the fuel... that's why a mag check
gives you a drop in RPM. there's raw fuel not being ignited by the 2nd plug.
Now in a Corvair where the volume is less there's just no need for a 2nd plug.
Even if you did have dual mags with 2 plugs in each cylinder I doubt a mag
check would show much of an RPM drop.
Sure there's an element of redundancy with dual mags but you are getting the
same redundancy with dual coils/points. The point of failure is usually not spark
plug wires or the spark plugs themselves. And of course... there's the need
for a battery to power the ignition with coil/points. yes.. if the battery
goes dead so does the engine, but that's not likely to happen and there are
ways to add in redundancy there if desired.
There are thousands of proven flight hours with Corvairs built to WW specs.
As for carbs.... you can't go wrong with a Marvel MA3-SPA. I am using a Stromberg
NAS-3A1 with mixture control, but there is large debate on how effective
the mixture really is on that carb.
DJ
----- Orginal Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 10:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hegy prop for a Corvair, and carb questions.
I have a chance to buy a Hegy prop for a Corvair engine for $500. Don't have
the stats for the prop, other than it has never been installed. I've been told
this prop is the correct pitch, etc. and perfect for a Corvair pumping out
100+ horsepower.
Does $500 sound like a fair price? I'm not familiar with pricing and props
for a Corvair. I've heard that Hegy (builder from Marfa, TX).
Lastly, I'm contemplating installing a Corvair in a Piet. I was impressed with
the Corvairs I saw flying at Brodhead this year. But, having had a bad experience
with a Mosler 82X a few years ago, I'm reluctant to go back to a car engine.
What I didn't like about the 82X (souped up VW with Scat Racing Heads, beefy
crank and a hot camshaft) was a funky carb set up, no mixture control and ultimately
NO RELIABILITY. In addition, the Mosler could not produce any power
at 2,800 RPM and it really needed a reduction drive in order to get the power-band
and prop working where they both were happy. (I tried a number of different
props, and 2 different 82X engines, but the problem was with the Mosler and
funky non-aviation carb.
Is there a faithful carb with mixture control for the Corvair set up? What
about dual mags for a Corvair?
Thanks.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
<003b01c4a41d$58f589f0$b15ad90c@yourxhtr8hvc4p>
| Subject: | Re: Hegy prop for a Corvair, and carb questions. |
well... I've never heard of a sudden points failure.... but hey.. Magnetos have
points too. In any case there are 2 sets of points in my distributor so redundancy
is there.
----- Original Message -----
From: cgalley
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hegy prop for a Corvair, and carb questions.
I different with your failure of points. They have and they do break... sudden
stop!
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hegy prop for a Corvair, and carb questions.
forgot to address a couple other questions in your email
as for concern about using a Corvair... just let that concern fade away.
The Cirvair is practically an Aero engine. It's closer to an Aero engine than
any other auto engine is... period. In about 8 months I'll have mine flying
and you can come out and fly it/see it anytime you want.
Dual mags can be done on a Corvair. I've seen it. It takes a tremendous amount
of re-engineering and machining. In my opinion it's not worth it. If you
convert the engine to William Wynne specs you will have dual redundancy in
the components of the ignition that fail.... the coil and points. I have dual
points in my distributor and I have 2 coils connected by a solid state auto coil
switch. If one coil should fail the switch automatically changes to the other
coil. Points never fail suddenly. It's usually a slow process that can
be detected.
2 plugs are not needed in a Corvair like they are in an Aero engine. Look
at an Aero engine..... large displacement... there's alot of volume to ignite.
You need 2 plugs just to ignite and burn all the fuel... that's why a mag check
gives you a drop in RPM. there's raw fuel not being ignited by the 2nd plug.
Now in a Corvair where the volume is less there's just no need for a 2nd plug.
Even if you did have dual mags with 2 plugs in each cylinder I doubt a mag
check would show much of an RPM drop.
Sure there's an element of redundancy with dual mags but you are getting the
same redundancy with dual coils/points. The point of failure is usually not
spark plug wires or the spark plugs themselves. And of course... there's the
need for a battery to power the ignition with coil/points. yes.. if the battery
goes dead so does the engine, but that's not likely to happen and there are
ways to add in redundancy there if desired.
There are thousands of proven flight hours with Corvairs built to WW specs.
As for carbs.... you can't go wrong with a Marvel MA3-SPA. I am using a Stromberg
NAS-3A1 with mixture control, but there is large debate on how effective
the mixture really is on that carb.
DJ
----- Orginal Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 10:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hegy prop for a Corvair, and carb questions.
I have a chance to buy a Hegy prop for a Corvair engine for $500. Don't have
the stats for the prop, other than it has never been installed. I've been
told this prop is the correct pitch, etc. and perfect for a Corvair pumping out
100+ horsepower.
Does $500 sound like a fair price? I'm not familiar with pricing and props
for a Corvair. I've heard that Hegy (builder from Marfa, TX).
Lastly, I'm contemplating installing a Corvair in a Piet. I was impressed
with the Corvairs I saw flying at Brodhead this year. But, having had a bad experience
with a Mosler 82X a few years ago, I'm reluctant to go back to a car
engine.
What I didn't like about the 82X (souped up VW with Scat Racing Heads, beefy
crank and a hot camshaft) was a funky carb set up, no mixture control and
ultimately NO RELIABILITY. In addition, the Mosler could not produce any power
at 2,800 RPM and it really needed a reduction drive in order to get the power-band
and prop working where they both were happy. (I tried a number of different
props, and 2 different 82X engines, but the problem was with the Mosler
and funky non-aviation carb.
Is there a faithful carb with mixture control for the Corvair set up? What
about dual mags for a Corvair?
Thanks.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for a GN-1... |
Yes, the project is for sale. I haven't done anything to it and it has been
sitting in the hanger on my farm under a tarp. I pulled the tarp off a few days
ago and noticed the plywood sides on the fuselage are a little wavy and I
suspect the wood went into "shock" after leaving a very, very dry desert climate
in Arizona - moving to a very humid environment here in Central Texas. But
once the fuselage is covered, it wouldn't be noticable.
It is for sale minus the gas tank and motormount.
The wing ribs, original rib jigs and much of the spare wood for the various
wing parts have been in storage in an air conditioned and humidty controled
office in my hanger.
________________________________________________________________________________
I did another river run yesterday. I came around a turn, and spotted 4
turkeys sprinting along a sand bar, like they were running from a mountain lion,
or
something. They were running like their life depended on it !! They just
didn't realize that I posed no threat to them, but the sound of the loud engine
must have given them visions of a growling predator. Big fat bodies, and
spindly little chicken legs, kicking up a little puff of dust with each step,
makes for a humorous sight for something in such a hurry. I think they were so
scared, that they forgot they could fly !! Too funny.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: "How I carve Propellers" |
I down loaded the 1st 60 pages and created a 18,250 KB PDF file. I can send
it to you if your request it.
Cy Galley - Aeronca Aviators Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.aeronca.org
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Morris" <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "How I carve Propellers"
>
> Hi.
>
> We've talked about the author. Is there any source for the book? (I
> tried downloading from the flying flea web site, but with my slow flakey
> internet connection, I just finally gave up.)
>
> -Don
>
> javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Hi Piets
> >
> >The first prop that i used was homemade 66x38 with ths prop just I can
> >get 2550 rpm's static , after to read the Mr Alvin prop manual I made a
> >64x32 with the shape of the picture of Oscar Zuiga Prop, much better,
> >2950 static rpm's, that with avgas...
> >Javier Cruz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "How I carve Propellers" |
Hi Cy,
I am going to build a prop for my Piet too. Could you
send me a copy of that manual, I would be most
greatful. I owned a 1947 Aeronica L-16A for a few
years, one of the best little airplanes I ever had.
Happy Landings...Always. Doc
--- cgalley wrote:
>
>
> I down loaded the 1st 60 pages and created a 18,250
> KB PDF file. I can send
> it to you if your request it.
>
> Cy Galley - Aeronca Aviators Club
> Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
> www.aeronca.org
> Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Morris" <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 7:53 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: "How I carve Propellers"
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi.
> >
> > We've talked about the author. Is there any
> source for the book? (I
> > tried downloading from the flying flea web site,
> but with my slow flakey
> > internet connection, I just finally gave up.)
> >
> > -Don
> >
> > javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx wrote:
> >
> javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx
> > >
> > >
> > >Hi Piets
> > >
> > >The first prop that i used was homemade 66x38
> with ths prop just I can
> > >get 2550 rpm's static , after to read the Mr
> Alvin prop manual I made a
> > >64x32 with the shape of the picture of Oscar
> Zuiga Prop, much better,
> > >2950 static rpm's, that with avgas...
> > >Javier Cruz
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Chuck,
I remember well (and very fondly) of flights like
that...slipping effortlessly over the cool, clear
rivers of north Arkansas in my old Waco on my way to
another barnstorming weekend in the hinterland of the
midwest. I marveled that some animals were frightened
by the rumbling growls of the old Kinner radial and
others were not. Those animals (turkeys, chickens,
ducks, etc.) that fear predators from the air (hawks,
eagles, etc.) are fearful of large, winged, fabric
covered wood and steel that makes the most terrifying
sounds ever heard in the wilderness. Animals like
cows and most hooved animals aren't bothered much with
low flying predators (ie. man and his beautiful flying
machines) because they are just another version of
"man sounds" most domesticated animals are accustomed
to. That is...unless that large-winged, growling
predator happens to dive down at them and soar far too
close by for comfort and then they often do, when
callenged by man, and that is to flee for their
precious lives...oh how I remember when...
Doc
(Former chief pilot and bottle washer of "BARNSTORMING
THE USA).
--- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I did another river run yesterday. I came around a
> turn, and spotted 4
> turkeys sprinting along a sand bar, like they were
> running from a mountain lion, or
> something. They were running like their life
> depended on it !! They just
> didn't realize that I posed no threat to them, but
> the sound of the loud engine
> must have given them visions of a growling predator.
> Big fat bodies, and
> spindly little chicken legs, kicking up a little
> puff of dust with each step,
> makes for a humorous sight for something in such a
> hurry. I think they were so
> scared, that they forgot they could fly !! Too
> funny.
>
> Chuck G.
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | OffSubject - TriMotor Crash |
Was it the EAA's TriMotor that crashed yesterday at Merced(sp) Fly-In?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: OffSubject - TriMotor Crash |
No and the crash was at Fullerton by a Bushmaster
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Davis
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 12:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: OffSubject - TriMotor Crash
Was it the EAA's TriMotor that crashed yesterday at Merced(sp) Fly-In?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thoreson Family <thoreson(at)earthlink.net> |
(ax)
| Subject: | RE: Looking for a GN-1 |
Steve,
Suggest you post you wants under Pietenpol on Barnstormers. Believe
that site gets considerable attention.
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Invitation: Hank Styne's Weiner Roast |
Howdy all,
The attached is an invitation from Hank Styne to his 16th annual Weiner Roast
at his place near Grandview, TX. Hank says the invite applies to all those
whe were at the Tick Hill Fly-In. I talked to Max Davis and Jim Markle today
and both are planning to be there. I'll see you all there.
Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Minimum engine instruments for a Corvair engine |
Am starting to layout my instrument panel and was wondering if any
engine instruments other than tach, oil temp and oil pressure are
necessary with a Corvair engine? I have seen very few Piets with
Continental or Corvairs using EGTs or CHTs even with mixture control.
I will be using an MA3-SPA with mixture control, question is how do
you set your mixture without an EGT?
Thanks
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Minimum engine instruments for a Corvair engine |
I am using a Grand Rapids Technologies EIS 2004. It's a digital unit that
monitors, rpm, OT, OP, manifold pressure, OAT, 2 CHT's, 2 EGT's, volts, hour
meter, up/down counter, fuel flow, also has 2 aux channels for monitoring
anything else you want. Small,compact, easy to read and has a ton of safety
features.
you can get away with OT, OP and tach only though.
Keep in mind when you lay out the Piet panel.... the cabane X wires take up
valuable panel space. make sure no instruments are in the way of them... I
learned the hard way after making a panel that wouldn't work.
you could try an Air/Fuel meter to aid in mixture adjustment.... something
like that could be mounted in the front panel.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Minimum engine instruments for a Corvair engine
>
> Am starting to layout my instrument panel and was wondering if any
> engine instruments other than tach, oil temp and oil pressure are
> necessary with a Corvair engine? I have seen very few Piets with
> Continental or Corvairs using EGTs or CHTs even with mixture control.
> I will be using an MA3-SPA with mixture control, question is how do
> you set your mixture without an EGT?
>
> Thanks
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
<003b01c4a49b$4150ff90$b15ad90c@yourxhtr8hvc4p>
| Subject: | Re: "How I carve Propellers" |
I would really like a copy too if there is a way to get it through the
system. Can someone host it on a site?
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "How I carve Propellers"
>
> I down loaded the 1st 60 pages and created a 18,250 KB PDF file. I can
send
> it to you if your request it.
>
> Cy Galley - Aeronca Aviators Club
> Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
> www.aeronca.org
> Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Morris" <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 7:53 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: "How I carve Propellers"
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi.
> >
> > We've talked about the author. Is there any source for the book? (I
> > tried downloading from the flying flea web site, but with my slow flakey
> > internet connection, I just finally gave up.)
> >
> > -Don
> >
> > javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >Hi Piets
> > >
> > >The first prop that i used was homemade 66x38 with ths prop just I can
> > >get 2550 rpm's static , after to read the Mr Alvin prop manual I made a
> > >64x32 with the shape of the picture of Oscar Zuiga Prop, much better,
> > >2950 static rpm's, that with avgas...
> > >Javier Cruz
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | "How I carve Propellers" |
Hank,
Its available here:-
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/PeoplesFiles/HowIMakeProp.pdf
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of hjarrett
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "How I carve Propellers"
I would really like a copy too if there is a way to get it through the
system. Can someone host it on a site?
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "How I carve Propellers"
>
> I down loaded the 1st 60 pages and created a 18,250 KB PDF file. I can
send
> it to you if your request it.
>
> Cy Galley - Aeronca Aviators Club
> Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
> www.aeronca.org
> Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Morris" <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 7:53 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: "How I carve Propellers"
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi.
> >
> > We've talked about the author. Is there any source for the book? (I
> > tried downloading from the flying flea web site, but with my slow flakey
> > internet connection, I just finally gave up.)
> >
> > -Don
> >
> > javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >Hi Piets
> > >
> > >The first prop that i used was homemade 66x38 with ths prop just I can
> > >get 2550 rpm's static , after to read the Mr Alvin prop manual I made a
> > >64x32 with the shape of the picture of Oscar Zuiga Prop, much better,
> > >2950 static rpm's, that with avgas...
> > >Javier Cruz
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | "How I carve Propellers" |
Thanks. It is much smaller that the other site (11,195) I re-saved
using
the make smaller option and it is about 9,000 KB for the entire 134 pages.
I believe some of the pictures have been left out.
I have my smaller version posted on a web site. It will only be up there 2
days.
www.qcbc.org/HowIMakeProp.pdf
But it still will take a long time.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor-in-Chief & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
Actively supporting Bellancas every day
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 7:16 AM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: "How I carve Propellers"
>
>
>
> >
> > Hank,
> >
> > Its available here:-
> >
> > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/PeoplesFiles/HowIMakeProp.pdf
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Peter
> > Wonthaggi Australia
> > http://www.cpc-world.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of hjarrett
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 9:21 PM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "How I carve Propellers"
> >
> >
> > I would really like a copy too if there is a way to get it through the
> > system. Can someone host it on a site?
> > Hank J
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
> > To: ;
> > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 10:06 AM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "How I carve Propellers"
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I down loaded the 1st 60 pages and created a 18,250 KB PDF file. I can
> > send
> > > it to you if your request it.
> > >
> > > Cy Galley - Aeronca Aviators Club
> > > Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
> > > www.aeronca.org
> > > Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Don Morris" <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 7:53 AM
> > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: "How I carve Propellers"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi.
> > > >
> > > > We've talked about the author. Is there any source for the book?
(I
> > > > tried downloading from the flying flea web site, but with my slow
> flakey
> > > > internet connection, I just finally gave up.)
> > > >
> > > > -Don
> > > >
> > > > javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Hi Piets
> > > > >
> > > > >The first prop that i used was homemade 66x38 with ths prop just I
> can
> > > > >get 2550 rpm's static , after to read the Mr Alvin prop manual I
made
> a
> > > > >64x32 with the shape of the picture of Oscar Zuiga Prop, much
> better,
> > > > >2950 static rpm's, that with avgas...
> > > > >Javier Cruz
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | engine instrumentation for Corvair |
How do you use the mixture control without an EGT? I always did it by
leaning the mixture till the engine started to run rough, then richen back
up a tad till it smoothed out.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Fisher <mfisher(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | Engine Development Report |
2004)
Hi Bert,
Congratulations on high speed taxi tests successfully completed. Interesting
and exciting times continue.
Glad to hear you survived the hurricanes and were able to help with the
cleanup.
Your friend with a possible interest in pictures of my engine project
is a bright guy, willing to innovate and test. It was my pleasure to spend a
little time with him at his airfield, just before Sun and Fun last April. I
left with the feeling that I should have stayed another day to learn more. I
particularly like his ideas on weight saving structures, "T" section rib capstrips,
and cooling systems.
He told me what happened in the crash that cost a life and totaled a
great homebuilt. The passenger squirmed around in the front seat, using the
front throttle as a handhold. In so doing, he damaged the pilot's control linkage
and reduced power to idle a few hundred feet above the piney woods. Shoulder
harnesses were not used, but might have greatly reduced the crash injuries.
Years as a charter pilot have taught me that passengers are often credited
with more common sense than they actually have. That is why passenger briefings
are now the law for air taxi operations and a good idea for everyone
else.
Since I don't have a digital camera, conventional photo prints of my
inverted Ford engine are all I have at present. It is hanging on my shop wall,
supported on a mount attached to a Pietenpol Scout forward fuselage
hardpoint mockup. --- Looks like a powerplant I might like to fly behind. ---
Made in America! Shurely would be fun to have it for the annual gathering at
Brodhead Wisconsin. Don't anyone hold their breath waiting for this to happen.
There are good reasons why we don't see many inverted auto engine conversions.
I'll touch on a few of them below:
Oiling --- Oil must be picked up from a low mounted tank, circulated
through the engine, and returned to that tank via a scavenge pump or gravity.
A pushrod engine would be better than an overhead cam because return oil could
run through the pushrod holes.
Crank trigger ignition --- I set the entire system up in a lathe and
was able to make it work minus the main power control module computer. The same
pair of cylinders always fires first. Hand propping will probably work if
you pre-rotate the engine with reference to a mark on the camshaft sprocket to
take advantage of that fact. The vital parts of these systems can be sheltered
behind the firewall, safe from the heat, moisture, and vibration that cause
failures.
Fuel System --- The factory injectors will be blocked open and pressurized
with the factory pump. Mixture control will be via a cockpit controlled
needle valve, bypassing fuel rail pressure to the return line. The throttle
will have three basic settings: takeoff, cruise, and approach. Emergency fuel
will drain from the wing tank to a calibrated orfice just downstream from the
throttle valve.
My emergency fuel system idea came from the book "Jungle Pilot" by Nate
Saint --- recommended reading for those flying light planes through rough country.
Happy landings, Mike Fish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | GN-1 project & Continental A-80 4 sale |
I'm going to place my GN-1 project on Ebay in a couple of weeks but I wanted
folks on the list to have first crack at it. You can see what this project
looks like (minus the engine) by visiting D.J.'s website. I think he posted the
info and pictures on March 12 and they should still be available for viewing.
The GN-1 project has been in storage under a tarp at my hanger here in humid
central Texas and I suspect the plywood sideboards on the fuselage went into
shock going from an extremely dry desert climate (Mesa, Arizona) to what has
almost been a tropical sweatland on my farm. The sides are wavy, almost
undetectable ... and the laser cut metal parts I have that are unpainted need a
light
sanding because of a very thin layer of oxidation. I also detected what looks
like some surface mold (dark spots) on a few wood surfaces (originally
varnished) and it seems like a light sanding with 320 or 400 grade sandpaper would
clean this residue off.
This project comes with nearly all the ribs, built by D.J himself, as well as
all the wood to finish the wings and D.J.'s original rib jigs.
I am keeping the motormount and J3 Cub fuel tank, but everything else goes.
I probably will also be selling my Continental A-80 engine, disassembled and
now looking better than the day it left the factory. The case was worked by
Divco ($820.42) and the accessory case was worked on to new factory limits by
Drake Air Parts ($495.00) . I have a brand new camshaft (Sacramento Air Parts
$500.00) for this engine and I recently purchased a nice yellow tag crankshaft
from Aircraft Engine & Accessory ($650.00) that is 20 under with a new set of
bearings ($4.25) . The connecting rods, tappet bodies and rocker arms were
reconditioned at Aircraft Engine & Accessory to the tune of $906.59. I also
purchased new rod bolts and nuts and cotter pins for $107.22 from Aircraft
Specialties Services. I installed a brand new engine dataplate and had the old
numbers
professionally engraved (not stamped) and have all new cylinder base nuts,
cover screws, MOH gasket set, all seals and gaskets and clamps from Fresno
Airparts Company ($305.08) to go with the engine. The cylinders are currently
undergoing a Cerminil process (best there is and I'll argue this point with ANYBODY)
and they should be finished in about three weeks.
I can't toss a figure out there for the engine until I have an idea what the
cylinders will cost, but this will be a pristine engine with all yellow tags
and receipts. The engine case is anodized and looks like a golden treasure
trove and the new data plate makes this engine look like a million bucks (hey,
maybe that's how much I should ask for it.)
Keep viewing Ebay and I'll have this engine on the auction block in the
coming weeks. Make a reasonabhle offer on the GN-1 project, and I might just sell
it without going on Ebay.
Thanks,
Sterling Brooks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CapnAvid(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 09/06/04 |
For "Leon Stefan"
lsutks(at)webtv.net
Re: Root rib covering.
You don't have to stitch the root rib as the 2" cap strip is wide enough to
make a good fabic bond with the covering glue (Poly Tac, Super Seam, etc.). Be
sure that the diagonal braces that keeps the fabric from pulling the rib and
cap strip towards the tip are in place; the 2" cap strip & root rib will buckle
when you shrink the fabric if they are not braced.
Rogers Theetge
capnavid(at)AOL.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 project & Continental A-80 4 sale |
I'll add that this GN-1 project was built by the same guy who built the wings I
am using on my GN-1. The workmanship is very nice and I would consider it good
and safe. It was built from the first day right here in Mesa, AZ. went through
3 owners but always stayed in our dry climate.
All of the ribs and wing material are my stuff that I was going to use before I
got my beautifully finished wings. I sold all of it to Sterling earlier this
year. I used aircraft ply and Sitka Spruce on the ribs. All glued together
with T-88. In fact the very same ribs Sterling is selling can be seen in the
first entries of my construction log.
DJ Vegh
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 3:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 project & Continental A-80 4 sale
I'm going to place my GN-1 project on Ebay in a couple of weeks but I wanted
folks on the list to have first crack at it. You can see what this project looks
like (minus the engine) by visiting D.J.'s website. I think he posted the info
and pictures on March 12 and they should still be available for viewing.
The GN-1 project has been in storage under a tarp at my hanger here in humid
central Texas and I suspect the plywood sideboards on the fuselage went into shock
going from an extremely dry desert climate (Mesa, Arizona) to what has almost
been a tropical sweatland on my farm. The sides are wavy, almost undetectable
... and the laser cut metal parts I have that are unpainted need a light
sanding because of a very thin layer of oxidation. I also detected what looks
like some surface mold (dark spots) on a few wood surfaces (originally varnished)
and it seems like a light sanding with 320 or 400 grade sandpaper would clean
this residue off.
This project comes with nearly all the ribs, built by D.J himself, as well as
all the wood to finish the wings and D.J.'s original rib jigs.
I am keeping the motormount and J3 Cub fuel tank, but everything else goes.
I probably will also be selling my Continental A-80 engine, disassembled and
now looking better than the day it left the factory. The case was worked by Divco
($820.42) and the accessory case was worked on to new factory limits by Drake
Air Parts ($495.00) . I have a brand new camshaft (Sacramento Air Parts $500.00)
for this engine and I recently purchased a nice yellow tag crankshaft from
Aircraft Engine & Accessory ($650.00) that is 20 under with a new set of bearings
($4.25) . The connecting rods, tappet bodies and rocker arms were reconditioned
at Aircraft Engine & Accessory to the tune of $906.59. I also purchased
new rod bolts and nuts and cotter pins for $107.22 from Aircraft Specialties
Services. I installed a brand new engine dataplate and had the old numbers
professionally engraved (not stamped) and have all new cylinder base nuts, cover
screws, MOH gasket set, all seals and gaskets and clamps from Fresno Airparts
Company ($305.08) to go with the engine. The cylinders are currently undergoing
a Cerminil process (best there is and I'll argue this point with ANYBODY)
and they should be finished in about three weeks.
I can't toss a figure out there for the engine until I have an idea what the
cylinders will cost, but this will be a pristine engine with all yellow tags and
receipts. The engine case is anodized and looks like a golden treasure trove
and the new data plate makes this engine look like a million bucks (hey, maybe
that's how much I should ask for it.)
Keep viewing Ebay and I'll have this engine on the auction block in the coming
weeks. Make a reasonabhle offer on the GN-1 project, and I might just sell it
without going on Ebay.
Thanks,
Sterling Brooks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Aircamper w/ Corvair conversion at Copperstate |
I've talked things over with Pat Panzera, Editor of Contact Magazine. They
will have a booth (booth #5) at the Copperstate Fly-in. I will be bringing
my nearly completed fuselage with a running Corvair firewall forward
installation. I shoudl be arriving on Saturday monring about 8am. Pat will
be hosting Corvair conversion discussions every day of the fly-in, but I'll
be there with Pat at 2pm on Saturday. After the brief chat we'll run some
Corvairs.
If anyone lives nearby and is anxious to see a Corvair install please come
out and introduce yourself to me. I'll be glad to talk with anyone about
it. Just look for the 6'4" 29yr old dude with really shizzle looking
sunglasses and spiked hair....that'd be me.... LOL
See ya there.
DJ Vegh
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
_
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine instrumentation for Corvair |
I always did it that way with my RC models but always used an EGT on spam cans.
>
> How do you use the mixture control without an EGT? I always did it by
> leaning the mixture till the engine started to run rough, then richen back
> up a tad till it smoothed out.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
I'm going to see if I can kick up any interest in the design of a 'Scimitar
Prop'. I've brought up this subject in years past on this list, but had only
limited interest.
As we all know, a propeller absorbs the energy of the fuel burned in the
engine, and dispenses it in the form of thrust. Whenever energy is
transformed from one form to another, some energy is transformed to some other
form
which is lost to intent of thrust. Energy cannot be created nor destroyed...it's
a fact of physics. Therefore, the more efficiently the 'Potential' energy of
the fuel that is burned, can be transformed into thrust, the less fuel will be
required to perform a given amount of work. A given fixed pitch prop is most
efficient at a specific r.p.m., and a specific forward speed. This is why
adjustable props came into play, and high performance airplanes usually have
Constant Speed Props. Here is where the Scimitar Prop comes in. The blades of
the Scimitar Prop will twist to a lower blade angle for the high thrust
required for takeoff and climb, then once airborne and power is pulled, the prop
unloads and flexes back almost to the blade angle it was carved at. Hence you
have an adjustable blade angle prop, with No Moving Parts !! Pretty cool, huh?
Wood is the chosen material for this design, because it will not fatigue, it's
readily available, and it's relatively easy to work with.
Here are the forces imposed upon a Propeller:
1. Centrifugal Force - Most powerful force, tends to pull the blades
outward away from the hub.
2. Thrust Bending Force - Blade tips bend forward when put under a load.
3. Torque Bending Force - Blades bend opposite the direction of
rotation.
4. Aerodynamic Twisting Force - Twists the blade at the aerodynamic
center of pressure. Tends to twist the blades to High Pitch.
5. Centrifugal Twisting Force - The Mass of the blade, under a
centrifugal force, tends to twist the blades to a Lower Pitch.
6. Vibration Force (Resonance) - Everything has a resonant frequency,
according to the mass, and the location of the mass.
A Scimitar design prop takes advantage of these forces to twist the
blades to a lower blade angle for takeoff and climb, and then when in cruise flight
and power is pulled back, and the prop unloads, the blade angle relaxes back
to a higher blade angle, and you have a cruise prop.
Steve Wittman certainly understood the potential of a scimitar design, as
evidence on the wall of his hanger in Oshkosh.
I still can't understand why all props aren't of scimitar design. With
enough Research and Development, then mass production could easily bring the
additional labor involved, down to a competitive cost. I have searched the
library at Oshkosh, lots of web sites, and asked lots of people about scimitar
props. By far, the best info I've found on it, is the couple of pages in Eric
Clutton's book. I did, however, discover that the concept came about in W.W.I
aircraft. The design showed potential, but what happened on several occasions
was that in a dogfight, the lead plane would go into a dive, in an effort to
escape the aggressor, and the engine / prop would overspeed, then the blades
would begin to flutter, and disintegrate. You can imagine the vibration of a
broken prop blade, and if power wasn't pulled and shut down the engine, it would
then shake the engine right off the plane, and now, with a tail heavy CG
condition, the plane would spin to the ground. Even if the pilot was able to shut
down the engine in time, he was then a glider pilot...easy prey. I believe
when you over-run the prop of a scimitar design, the aerodynamics are what
cause the flutter. I have heard stories about how props de-laminate when using
thin laminates of wood, however these props had the width of the planks in the
conventional direction. The cause of these de-laminations could also have been
the technique of construction. The big question, is if any successful props
were built using the parameters that Eric Clutton set forth. I do not know
the answer to that question.
I still plan of building one, but haven't began construction, yet. The
method of construction I would use, is laminates of 1/4" or less, bend each
laminate in a jig, to match the 'S' shape of the prop, and use T88 exclusively,
but to avoid squeezing too much of the adhesive out, by using either scrim
cloth between the laminates, or glass beads in the mixture of epoxy. The type
of
wood would I'll use, is still undecided yet, but the type of types of
acceptable prop wood is called out in the AC 43.13-1A.
Now, the challenge of designing a reliable Scimitar Prop, using the mass
of the blade to twist the blade to a lower blade angle for takeoff and climb,
then back almost to the blade angles that they were cut at, when the prop
unloads. The laminations would be perpendicular to the direction of conventional
props, so as to achieve the dramatic arc of the blades, as set forth by Eric
Cluttons design.
I'm looking for any input, pros or cons, and especially if anyone is
aware of an aircraft that has used this design prop successfully.
Chuck Gantzer
Pietenpol Aircamper
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Scimitar Prop |
Chuck, very interesting concept. I would like to
follow this with you. I will try to do some research
as time permits. Thanks.
Doc
--- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I'm going to see if I can kick up any interest in
> the design of a 'Scimitar
> Prop'. I've brought up this subject in years past
> on this list, but had only
> limited interest.
> As we all know, a propeller absorbs the energy
> of the fuel burned in the
> engine, and dispenses it in the form of thrust.
> Whenever energy is
> transformed from one form to another, some energy is
> transformed to some other form
> which is lost to intent of thrust. Energy cannot be
> created nor destroyed...it's
> a fact of physics. Therefore, the more efficiently
> the 'Potential' energy of
> the fuel that is burned, can be transformed into
> thrust, the less fuel will be
> required to perform a given amount of work. A given
> fixed pitch prop is most
> efficient at a specific r.p.m., and a specific
> forward speed. This is why
> adjustable props came into play, and high
> performance airplanes usually have
> Constant Speed Props. Here is where the Scimitar
> Prop comes in. The blades of
> the Scimitar Prop will twist to a lower blade angle
> for the high thrust
> required for takeoff and climb, then once airborne
> and power is pulled, the prop
> unloads and flexes back almost to the blade angle it
> was carved at. Hence you
> have an adjustable blade angle prop, with No Moving
> Parts !! Pretty cool, huh?
> Wood is the chosen material for this design, because
> it will not fatigue, it's
> readily available, and it's relatively easy to work
> with.
>
> Here are the forces imposed upon a Propeller:
>
> 1. Centrifugal Force - Most powerful force, tends
> to pull the blades
> outward away from the hub.
>
> 2. Thrust Bending Force - Blade tips bend
> forward when put under a load.
>
> 3. Torque Bending Force - Blades bend opposite
> the direction of
> rotation.
>
> 4. Aerodynamic Twisting Force - Twists the blade
> at the aerodynamic
> center of pressure. Tends to twist the blades to
> High Pitch.
>
> 5. Centrifugal Twisting Force - The Mass of
> the blade, under a
> centrifugal force, tends to twist the blades to a
> Lower Pitch.
>
> 6. Vibration Force (Resonance) - Everything has a
> resonant frequency,
> according to the mass, and the location of the
> mass.
>
> A Scimitar design prop takes advantage of these
> forces to twist the
> blades to a lower blade angle for takeoff and climb,
> and then when in cruise flight
> and power is pulled back, and the prop unloads, the
> blade angle relaxes back
> to a higher blade angle, and you have a cruise prop.
> Steve Wittman certainly understood the potential
> of a scimitar design, as
> evidence on the wall of his hanger in Oshkosh.
> I still can't understand why all props aren't of
> scimitar design. With
> enough Research and Development, then mass
> production could easily bring the
> additional labor involved, down to a competitive
> cost. I have searched the
> library at Oshkosh, lots of web sites, and asked
> lots of people about scimitar
> props. By far, the best info I've found on it, is
> the couple of pages in Eric
> Clutton's book. I did, however, discover that the
> concept came about in W.W.I
> aircraft. The design showed potential, but what
> happened on several occasions
> was that in a dogfight, the lead plane would go into
> a dive, in an effort to
> escape the aggressor, and the engine / prop would
> overspeed, then the blades
> would begin to flutter, and disintegrate. You can
> imagine the vibration of a
> broken prop blade, and if power wasn't pulled and
> shut down the engine, it would
> then shake the engine right off the plane, and now,
> with a tail heavy CG
> condition, the plane would spin to the ground. Even
> if the pilot was able to shut
> down the engine in time, he was then a glider
> pilot...easy prey. I believe
> when you over-run the prop of a scimitar design, the
> aerodynamics are what
> cause the flutter. I have heard stories about how
> props de-laminate when using
> thin laminates of wood, however these props had the
> width of the planks in the
> conventional direction. The cause of these
> de-laminations could also have been
> the technique of construction. The big question, is
> if any successful props
> were built using the parameters that Eric Clutton
> set forth. I do not know
> the answer to that question.
> I still plan of building one, but haven't began
> construction, yet. The
> method of construction I would use, is laminates of
> 1/4" or less, bend each
> laminate in a jig, to match the 'S' shape of the
> prop, and use T88 exclusively,
> but to avoid squeezing too much of the adhesive out,
> by using either scrim
> cloth between the laminates, or glass beads in the
> mixture of epoxy. The type of
> wood would I'll use, is still undecided yet, but the
> type of types of
> acceptable prop wood is called out in the AC
> 43.13-1A.
> Now, the challenge of designing a reliable
> Scimitar Prop, using the mass
> of the blade to twist the blade to a lower blade
> angle for takeoff and climb,
> then back almost to the blade angles that they were
> cut at, when the prop
> unloads. The laminations would be perpendicular to
> the direction of conventional
> props, so as to achieve the dramatic arc of the
> blades, as set forth by Eric
> Cluttons design.
> I'm looking for any input, pros or cons, and
> especially if anyone is
> aware of an aircraft that has used this design prop
> successfully.
>
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> Pietenpol Aircamper
> NX770CG
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <tk1991(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Kawasaki 340/440 Reduction Drive |
I am beyond "very intersted" in making my own reduction drive for my 340/A. Has
anyone gone down this road? I also need to convert to a CDI and wire for an electric
starter. Any advice or time saving information would be GREATLY appreciated.
Bes Regards,
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aircamper w/ Corvair conversion at Copperstate |
More details needed for Copperstate please. When and where? I might try and
make it as I'm becoming more and more interested in the Corvair engine.
Also, in addition to the identifying characteristics that Mr. Vegh mentioned,
as you attempt to seek him out in a crowd, look for the neatest car in the
whole darned parking lot (if he doesn't drive his truck.)
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Scimitar Prop |
Chuck,
If you need one more reason to build a
scimitar prop it is this,
they look REALLY COOL!
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Scimitar Prop
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
>
> I'm going to see if I can kick up any
interest in the design of a 'Scimitar
> Prop'. I've brought up this subject in
years past on this list, but had only
> limited interest.
>
Lots of good stuff snipped......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Copperstate Fly-In Oct. 7-10, Casa Grande, AZ |
Sterling--- here is the Copperstate Regional Fly-In web site.
Mike C.
http://www.copperstate.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Firewall question |
Ordered a sheet of .016" stainless for my firewall and would like some
advice. Bingelis recommends placing insulation between the firewall
and sheet metal like Fiberfrax. What have you guys used for this and
how thick? Have seen several pictures that looked like the metal was
bolted directly to the 1/8" ply.
Thanks
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Another firewall question |
Is there any need to flute the edges of the firewall sheet metal on a
Piet? (As shown in Firewall Forward) or do you just cut the sheet to
match the same dimentions of the firewall ply?
Thank You
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall question |
Ol Tony B. was a smart feller. I would follow his recommendation. Here's my logic
and I suspect Tony's, too.
From the standpoint of what is a minimum safe requirement for certified airplanes...
The FAA requires the firewall material be "fireproof". Their definition
is that it must resist flame penetration for 15 minutes when exposed to a 2000
degree F flame. .016 stainless has been proven to meet this requirement.
So, consider the wood on the backside of the heated steel. I am not sure of the
exact temperature...but the auto-ignition temperature of wood is lower than
2000 degrees F. So even though the steel prevents flame penetration, the wood
will burn due to the high heat radiating thru the steel sheet. So to meet the
intent of the FAA regulation for wood-backed firewalls, insulation is necessary.
Now, from the practical standpoint, imagine yourself with an inflight engine fire.
Your first action should be to turn off the fuel. Hopefully your fuel shut-off
alve is aft of the firewall (also a requirement for certified airplanes)
and will thus be protected from heat. It is likely that the engine fire would
extinguish if the fuel is valve is off. But theres a chance that your fiberglass
resin nose cowl or smoke oil tank or something else is still on fire.
Now think of your passenger up front and that nose fuel tank. If I am in that
situation... The main thing I need is time to safely land the airplane and get
myself and passenger out before the fire spreads thru the firewall to that fuel
tank.
So to answer the question of how thick the insulation should be.... I plan to do
my own simple test. Take a 12" X 12" sample of the stainless material, backed
with the insulation material, and wood. Expose it to a carburizing flame (the
blue area is approx 2000 deg. F) and see how much time you will have to land
the airplane before the wood ignites.
Insulation is also helpful for keeping the fron passenger cool on hot days.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Another firewall question |
I'd just look at it from the standpoint of which edge finishing technique does
the best job of keeping heat away from the wood structure.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall question |
About Fiberfrax...
This is a brand name for some high tech woven and spun-bonded fiberglass materials.
There are other brands as well. Depending on the grade, it comes in different
heat ratings. The good stuff can be expensive. But there are some reasonable
materials out there. I haven't done the research yet for my project...but
I worked with this stuff several years ago for some aircraft exhaust insulation
applications. I plan to do some research on this before making my purchase.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall question |
I was wrong... it is CERAMIC fiber and not glass fiber. heres a link. Do a google
search for "ceramic fiber insulation"... or "Fiberfrax".
http://www.infraredheaters.com/insulati.htm
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall question |
I covered my firewall with a fireproof mat from ASS. and the top section
with a 1" insulated fireproofing. The inspector at sign off commented that
even without the extras, before burn thru of the firewall, with a wod plane,
I would have some other things to think about. He would have been OK
without it.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Firewall question
>
> Ordered a sheet of .016" stainless for my firewall and would like some
> advice. Bingelis recommends placing insulation between the firewall
> and sheet metal like Fiberfrax. What have you guys used for this and
> how thick? Have seen several pictures that looked like the metal was
> bolted directly to the 1/8" ply.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Chuck;
There have been many scimitar props built and flown. For a really
interesting one, see recent Contact! magazine #76 on David Roe's highly
modified Hummelbird airplane with "Aeromorph" super short-stroke VW engine
and... scimitar prop. It's made of oak laminations (the hub and about half
of each blade), with the tips and the outer half of each blade made of a
composite material for resistance to erosion. I don't know that it is
intentionally designed to flex in torsion to change the blade angle of
attack, but I would suspect that it does some of that simply due to the
scimitar shape and the inherent flexibility of the composite material.
Warnke's "Almost Constant Speed" wood props have always touted this as a
feature of the design... with a bit of torsional flexure to allow changing
angle of attack at various engine loads.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | fluting the firewall |
Rick-- I fluted my curved portion ala Tony B. and it worked great. I
wanted the firewall to not just lay over
the plywood but to overlap the edges all the way around. I have a few
small wood screws securing it to the
1/8" birch ply firewall and a very thin layer of fiberfrax we were throwing
away at work here years ago.
I don't know where you could find that stuff---possibly Wicks or ACS
? Dunno. This photo kinda shows the wrap around idea---least on the
sides.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall question |
I used fiberfrax for mine.
Jack Phillips
>
> From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
> Date: 2004/09/29 Wed AM 10:39:28 EDT
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Firewall question
>
>
> Ordered a sheet of .016" stainless for my firewall and would like some
> advice. Bingelis recommends placing insulation between the firewall
> and sheet metal like Fiberfrax. What have you guys used for this and
> how thick? Have seen several pictures that looked like the metal was
> bolted directly to the 1/8" ply.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another firewall question |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another firewall question
=============================
Rick,
I used fiberfrax in between the ply firewall and .020 aluminum. Then
around the edges of the firewall in order to mount the cowling, I made up
some angle of .040 aluminum measuring .75 x .75 inches. This was fluted
(shrunk) on one leg to fit the rounded top to the firewall and then screwed
through the aluminum/fiberfrax/plywood sandwich.
Hope this helps,
John
================================
>
> Is there any need to flute the edges of the firewall sheet metal on a
> Piet? (As shown in Firewall Forward) or do you just cut the sheet to
> match the same dimentions of the firewall ply?
>
> Thank You
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another firewall question |
I don't think Aluminum for a firewall is considered legal by the FAA,
because it will burn. The Brits found the problem of aluminum's burning hot
during the loss of one of their ships during the Falkland's war. Small
missle set the aluminum on fire and burnt the ship. Missle damage was
small, aluminum fire was a disaster.
Re; the question of fibefrax, this is just aluminum oxide ceramic fibers
"ceramic", I think just about any insulation material like dry fiberglass
(silicon oxide ceramic) functions just as well. But bottom line, the "dope"
used on the Dacron fabric will be burning real good, long long before an
engine fire could burn thru 16-20 ga. galvanized steel over plywood. For
those who'd like to save a little wt. forward of the CG, and live near the
Boeing surplus store near Auburn WA, the surplus store sells titanium sheet
about 20 ga., as scrap metal, cheap and very light weight. None of the ole
store-bought certified ragwings have any insulation between the engine and
fuselage, just a galvanized steel sheet. The FAA only requires as
non-flammable firewall between the pilot and engine. I agree with an
earlier posting- if the fire burns thru galvanized steel, and starts
scorching the plywood, you've already got more problems than you'd want to
be dealing with if still airborne.
Gordon Bowen
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another firewall question
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 8:47 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another firewall question
>
>
> =============================
> Rick,
>
> I used fiberfrax in between the ply firewall and .020 aluminum. Then
> around the edges of the firewall in order to mount the cowling, I made up
> some angle of .040 aluminum measuring .75 x .75 inches. This was fluted
> (shrunk) on one leg to fit the rounded top to the firewall and then
screwed
> through the aluminum/fiberfrax/plywood sandwich.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> John
> ================================
> >
> > Is there any need to flute the edges of the firewall sheet metal on a
> > Piet? (As shown in Firewall Forward) or do you just cut the sheet to
> > match the same dimentions of the firewall ply?
> >
> > Thank You
> >
> > --
> > Rick Holland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another firewall question |
The "Dope" won't burn if you use the PolyFiber process. It does not support combustion.
Having lost a friend who burned up in an otherwise survivable crash
due to the fabric burning, I consider this the primary reason to use Stit's PolyFiber
process.
Jack
>
> From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
> Date: 2004/09/29 Wed PM 04:08:38 EDT
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another firewall question
>
>
> I don't think Aluminum for a firewall is considered legal by the FAA,
> because it will burn. The Brits found the problem of aluminum's burning hot
> during the loss of one of their ships during the Falkland's war. Small
> missle set the aluminum on fire and burnt the ship. Missle damage was
> small, aluminum fire was a disaster.
>
> Re; the question of fibefrax, this is just aluminum oxide ceramic fibers
> "ceramic", I think just about any insulation material like dry fiberglass
> (silicon oxide ceramic) functions just as well. But bottom line, the "dope"
> used on the Dacron fabric will be burning real good, long long before an
> engine fire could burn thru 16-20 ga. galvanized steel over plywood. For
> those who'd like to save a little wt. forward of the CG, and live near the
> Boeing surplus store near Auburn WA, the surplus store sells titanium sheet
> about 20 ga., as scrap metal, cheap and very light weight. None of the ole
> store-bought certified ragwings have any insulation between the engine and
> fuselage, just a galvanized steel sheet. The FAA only requires as
> non-flammable firewall between the pilot and engine. I agree with an
> earlier posting- if the fire burns thru galvanized steel, and starts
> scorching the plywood, you've already got more problems than you'd want to
> be dealing with if still airborne.
> Gordon Bowen
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:17 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another firewall question
>
>
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 8:47 AM
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another firewall question
> >
> >
> > =============================
> > Rick,
> >
> > I used fiberfrax in between the ply firewall and .020 aluminum. Then
> > around the edges of the firewall in order to mount the cowling, I made up
> > some angle of .040 aluminum measuring .75 x .75 inches. This was fluted
> > (shrunk) on one leg to fit the rounded top to the firewall and then
> screwed
> > through the aluminum/fiberfrax/plywood sandwich.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > John
> > ================================
> > >
> > > Is there any need to flute the edges of the firewall sheet metal on a
> > > Piet? (As shown in Firewall Forward) or do you just cut the sheet to
> > > match the same dimentions of the firewall ply?
> > >
> > > Thank You
> > >
> > > --
> > > Rick Holland
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall question |
While we're on this subject,... has anyone ever heard of a pietenpol having an
in-flight fire?
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fuel strainer mesh |
Pieters,
Would anyone know a source of fine wire mesh suitable for gascolator and carb
inlet? Would appreciate a little help.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Letter to Greg, wing making |
Pieters,
I just finished a letter to Greg Bacon, the fellow that bought my "Wounded Piet"
After rereading it, it occurred to me that this information might be of use to
some ot the newer members of the list who are maybe just starting to build a Pietenpol.
I am sure that Greg knows most of this stuff, but I guess it won't
hurt to repeat it.
So with Greg's and your indulgence, I am posting it here where it might be of some
use to those just "coming along"
John
Good Morning, Greg!
You asked for information about how I built the wings of "Mountain Piet" and I
am happy to do so, please remember that the wings were the first item I built
and that was about 10 years ago. I don't think that I am senile yet, but my wife
will tell you that my memory is certainly less than perfect!
When starting to build the ribs, I checked the drawing that Pietenpol sent with
the plans of the ribs against the coordinates that were shown. There was quite
a discrepancy between the two and so I elected to layout a new drawing using
the coordinates. These coordinates will not provide a smooth line, so you will
have to make a batten and use it to connect the majority of the points and get
a smooth line. After doing this I made a jig using the drawing and using the
=BD X =BD inch cap and truss members as shown on the plans. The jig, which unfortunately
I have now tossed, had small cams where needed so as to hold the
rib members tightly against the blocks thus insuring accuracy. I then started
to cut wood and used Engleman spruce, a locally available material which is a
close relative of Sitka spruce except lighter in weight. The drawback to this
material is that it has a number of small knots and you must choose the strips
after milling which are free of these imperfections. I would think you could
certainly use Sitka spruce (which is really expensive) or cedar as Charlie Rubeck
uses just as well.
I milled my own material, first planing the boards to an accurate =BD inch in thickness
and then running these through my table saw into strips slightly larger
than =BD inch. The grain for the capstrips was kept vertical to the wing span
so there would be less deformation with the pull of the fabric. I then made
up, without gluing it together, a rib in the jig using these strips and laid
out templates for the gussets. I then set up the saw to cut out all the required
components of the ribs. I cut the angles accurately, however, left the lengths
a little long for a more accurate fit up later when putting them in the jig.
These strips and gussets were then sorted out into a bunch of containers, coffee
cans work fine. I made up a jig for bending the front of the top cap strips
(four at a time) after soaking them in boiling water for a few minutes until
they were flexible. They were then put in the jig and left overnight to dry,
ready for the next days work. The 1/16 inch mahogany plywood gussets were sanded
to remove any glaze so as to have better adhesion using T-88 epoxy.
Actual assembly of the ribs went smoothly but I could only make about one rib a
day because I let the epoxy dry completely before removing the rib from the jib.
A tight fit of the rib members was done by using a disk sander and lightly
touching the end of the precut parts to the sanding disk until I got the exact
length needed. Gussets, of course, were only put on the top side of the rib
in the jig and then the other side was put on the next day. The jig was protected
from the adhesive by a piece of Saran Wrap laid over the top of the entire
jig before putting in the rib components. These components were pressed down
into the Saran Wrap into the jig as they were fitted and glued. This way avoided
any epoxy getting into the jig and sticking the rib. The dimension that you
cut slightly more than =BD inch should be above the capstrips so you have some
material to sand down to the exact =BD inch of the capstrip. Before putting
on the gussets I block sanded the entire side of the rib so that all parts were
level with one another and then used an air hose to get rid of the sanding dust.
Gussets were left a little high above and below the cap strips so they could
be sanded down to be even with the cap strip later. The gussets were fastened
with small 3/8 inch aircraft nails. I found that using a automatic (spring
loaded) brad setter such as picture framers use, worked well. You might be able
to get this at your friendly hardware store, but probably will have to find
it yourself because the clerk won't know what you are looking for! I put a few
strategically placed holes in the bottom of the jig, so that the part might
be pushed out if it was reluctant to pop out by itself. When the gussets were
put on the opposite side of the rib the next day, again I block sanded the entire
side of the rib so that the gussets would lie flat. After the ribs were done,
I made up a couple of false stub spars and mounted the entire set of ribs
to these. Then it was possible to sand off all the protruding gussets and block
sand the ribs all to exactly the same contour. When gluing, be sure to wipe
all the surplus epoxy off of the joints, not to make them stronger or anything,
just to massage your own ego!
Spars are =BE inch vertical grain fir. There are, at least in my area some dealers
that handle this material, and if you explain the project, hopefully developing
their enthusiasm, they will let you go through their stock to pick out that
most suited for you. I believe there is an EAA publication outlining the specs
for the material you need, it's called "EAA Aircraft Building Techniques,
Wood" I did not use the little wood wedges that Mr. Pietenpol shows on the plans,
but simply cut the top of the spar to fit the angle. The cheek plates for
fittings are made of 1/16 and 1/8 ply as needed. Be sure to sand the plywood
before gluing with, again T-88 epoxy. The tip bow is laminated and you should
be able to use the one on the salvaged wing, along with all the metal fittings.
Just sandblast the fittings and refinish. Since we are in a dry climate here,
I protected the fittings with just a coat of "Krylon" primer and then a topcoat
of the same brand.
Build yourself a table to assemble the wing on. It needs to be flat and level and
build it long enough to hold both the wing and center section. You will build
the wing on the table to the existing center section so that when everything
is put together on the plane, it will fit with no surprises.
I would suggest that you slide the ribs on the spar and before permanently fastening
them down, that you put in the drag and antidrag cables and then adjust
the spacing of the ribs slightly to clear them. You can see that I didn't do this
and had to in several places put on some doublers and cut the truss members
to avoid the wires. Also, even though the plans call for 1" nails to fasten
the ribs to the main spar, these are too long. Instead, you only need to use about
a =BD inch long nail, and be sure you drive these in the exact center of
the spar (the neutral axis) only. This is to avoid weakening the spar. The epoxy
is really the connection to the spar, the nail is only to clamp the rib to
the spar until the epoxy sets.
The leading and trailing edges use the same wood as you will use for the ribs.
Block all the trailing edges of the ribs to the same height and cut the trailing
edge to the same angles as the ribs, just a little larger than the finished
part will be. You will need to scarf the trailing edge in some place, because
it is doubtful that you will have a long enough piece to do it all in one shot.
Now here is where I differed from the plans. You will notice that I made up
1/8 inch plywood biscuits and then used these to connect the trailing edge to
the ribs. To do this I made up a jig incorporating a router and biscuit cutter
that can be used on both the rib and trailing edge. I am lending this to you
and will send it along with the plans that I forgot to give you before. Just
return it when you are done.
The leading edge is made up the same way as the trailing edge, scarfed and run
through the table saw to the approximate angles as the rib and plans show. I made
it just a little oversized and then rabbited the plywood on the top leading
edge into the solid leading edge. You can see how this was done on the salvage
wing. Don't put any support for the rear edge of the ply. Without any support,
the fabric will pull down the ply between the ribs and then there is a smooth
transition for the airflow. Bernie was one darned smart feller! I used Australian
Hoop Pine, this is advertised in the magazines. Don't remember the thickness,
but you can measure what is there and order what you need. This stuff
comes in 5 foot lengths and will have to be scarfed together. I made up a jig
to hold the proper angle and then used a drum sander on my radial arm saw to cut
the work pieces.
The leading edge is bolted in place and then hand finished with a jack plane and
rough 80 grit sanding block to the final shape. I would suggest that you make
a template of the leading edge of the good wing so that the leading edges of
the two wing panels are the same. This will help to ensure that once you have
the rigging right, the there will be less of a tendency for one wing to stall
first.
After the wing is assembled, be sure to "trammel" wing and adjust the cables to
get the wing perfectly square. Use the "twang method" to get even tension. They
don't have to be super tight, just taut with little strain on the fittings.
Now its time to go to work with the sandpaper again. Work up to about a 220 grit
and then varnish with "Varathane" or something similar. Put two coats on and
sand between coats. Don't need to worry about a two part epoxy for finishing,
the fabric cement you use later will dry quickly enough that it will not attack
the finish. It might just soften it a little and really provides a better bond
when cured.
At this point, you should have a new wing, all varnished, no rough spots, connected
to the center section and ready to cover. Pull the center section off, find
a cool beverage and take your wife and kids away for a short vacation to make
up for the time spent away from the family while building the wing. We'll talk
about covering then.
Cordially,
John
PS Made wine this last weekend from a new crop of California grapes. Won't be ready
for a couple of years or more, but will enclose with the plans and router
jig, a bottle of our 2000 Petit Sarah. I think you will enjoy the label!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall question |
Rick,
There is a requirement for this. It's somewhere around .016", but I forget.
Just remember it can't be aluminum.
I didn't use insulation, only used a 90 deg bend on the straight sides and a
"metal shrinker" to get an overlap of about 1/2" on the top curved surface.
The curve came out great!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Firewall question
>
> Ordered a sheet of .016" stainless for my firewall and would like some
> advice. Bingelis recommends placing insulation between the firewall
> and sheet metal like Fiberfrax. What have you guys used for this and
> how thick? Have seen several pictures that looked like the metal was
> bolted directly to the 1/8" ply.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I'm not advocating one way or another, but Al Schubert did cover this topic
in his book "How I Make Wood Propellers." Interesting reading and he seems to
have good reasoning on the subject.
Fred B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel strainer mesh |
Hi Corky
I ordered mine from McMasters they have all sizes of mesh.
Dale Mpls
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel strainer mesh
Pieters,
Would anyone know a source of fine wire mesh suitable for gascolator and carb inlet?
Would appreciate a little help.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel strainer mesh |
Thanks, I tried McMaster and couldn't bring up anything but completed
fixtures. I wanted some raw material. Of course I'm not sharp, even dull, on this
computer.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Scimitar props |
In a message dated 9/29/04 7:20:31 PM Central Daylight Time, TBYH(at)aol.com
writes:
<< I'm not advocating one way or another, but Al Schubert did cover this
topic
in his book "How I Make Wood Propellers." Interesting reading and he seems
to
have good reasoning on the subject.
Fred B. >>
Fred,
What does Al Schubert have to say on the subject of Scimitar Props ?
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <tk1991(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | 340 / 440 Kawasaki re-drive |
Has anyone built a reduction drive for a Kawasaki 340 or 440 who can show me the
way?
Best Regards,
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel strainer mesh |
Dale,
Would you mind looking up the page for me?
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Letter to Greg, wing making |
Greetings John!
First I have to give credit to your consideration and generosity. John, you've
gone way beyond the call of duty in the transition of the Mtn. Piet. You patiently
answered all of my questions and shared your wisdom. You have always been
pleasant to talk with, even when I forgot about the time zone difference and
called you at 6:30AM. You carefully labeled, packaged, and shipped the spare
parts and support literature (and wouldn't even let me pay for shipping).
And now you take the time to pen three pages of detailed and customized build
instructions. John, I sincerely thank you for everything. Pieters, John Dilatush
is truly a gentleman of fine character!
I'll keep the list posted on the progress of the left wing panel rebuild. My Piet
build partner, Todd Baslee, and I hope to have the Mtn. Piet flying by the
2005 Piet fly-in at Brodhead. This will be a great Winter/Spring project. I'll
get the wood ordered as soon as possible.
Thanks for the wine. I look forward to it's arrival.
Take care,
Greg
Greg Bacon
Missouri
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
To: Greg Bacon
Cc: Pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 5:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Letter to Greg, wing making
Pieters,
I just finished a letter to Greg Bacon, the fellow that bought my "Wounded Piet"
After rereading it, it occurred to me that this information might be of use to
some ot the newer members of the list who are maybe just starting to build a
Pietenpol. I am sure that Greg knows most of this stuff, but I guess it won't
hurt to repeat it.
So with Greg's and your indulgence, I am posting it here where it might be of
some use to those just "coming along"
John
Good Morning, Greg!
You asked for information about how I built the wings of "Mountain Piet" and
I am happy to do so, please remember that the wings were the first item I built
and that was about 10 years ago. I don't think that I am senile yet, but my
wife will tell you that my memory is certainly less than perfect!
When starting to build the ribs, I checked the drawing that Pietenpol sent with
the plans of the ribs against the coordinates that were shown. There was quite
a discrepancy between the two and so I elected to layout a new drawing using
the coordinates. These coordinates will not provide a smooth line, so you will
have to make a batten and use it to connect the majority of the points and
get a smooth line. After doing this I made a jig using the drawing and using
the =BD X =BD inch cap and truss members as shown on the plans. The jig, which
unfortunately I have now tossed, had small cams where needed so as to hold the
rib members tightly against the blocks thus insuring accuracy. I then started
to cut wood and used Engleman spruce, a locally available material which is
a close relative of Sitka spruce except lighter in weight. The drawback to this
material is that it has a number of small knots and you must choose the strips
after milling which are free of these imperfections. I would think you could
certainly use Sitka spruce (which is really expensive) or cedar as Charlie Rubeck
uses just as well.
I milled my own material, first planing the boards to an accurate =BD inch in
thickness and then running these through my table saw into strips slightly larger
than =BD inch. The grain for the capstrips was kept vertical to the wing
span so there would be less deformation with the pull of the fabric. I then made
up, without gluing it together, a rib in the jig using these strips and laid
out templates for the gussets. I then set up the saw to cut out all the required
components of the ribs. I cut the angles accurately, however, left the lengths
a little long for a more accurate fit up later when putting them in the
jig. These strips and gussets were then sorted out into a bunch of containers,
coffee cans work fine. I made up a jig for bending the front of the top cap strips
(four at a time) after soaking them in boiling water for a few minutes until
they were flexible. They were then put in the jig and left overnight to dry,
ready for the next days work. The 1/16 inch mahogany plywood gussets were
sanded to remove any glaze so as to have better adhesion using T-88 epoxy.
Actual assembly of the ribs went smoothly but I could only make about one rib
a day because I let the epoxy dry completely before removing the rib from the
jib. A tight fit of the rib members was done by using a disk sander and lightly
touching the end of the precut parts to the sanding disk until I got the exact
length needed. Gussets, of course, were only put on the top side of the rib
in the jig and then the other side was put on the next day. The jig was protected
from the adhesive by a piece of Saran Wrap laid over the top of the entire
jig before putting in the rib components. These components were pressed down
into the Saran Wrap into the jig as they were fitted and glued. This way avoided
any epoxy getting into the jig and sticking the rib. The dimension that you
cut slightly more than =BD inch should be above the capstrips so you have some
material to sand down to the exact =BD inch of the capstrip. Before putting
on the gussets I block sanded the entire side of the rib so that all parts were
level with one another and then used an air hose to get rid of the sanding
dust. Gussets were left a little high above and below the cap strips so they
could be sanded down to be even with the cap strip later. The gussets were fastened
with small 3/8 inch aircraft nails. I found that using a automatic (spring
loaded) brad setter such as picture framers use, worked well. You might be
able to get this at your friendly hardware store, but probably will have to find
it yourself because the clerk won't know what you are looking for! I put a
few strategically placed holes in the bottom of the jig, so that the part might
be pushed out if it was reluctant to pop out by itself. When the gussets were
put on the opposite side of the rib the next day, again I block sanded the entire
side of the rib so that the gussets would lie flat. After the ribs were
done, I made up a couple of false stub spars and mounted the entire set of ribs
to these. Then it was possible to sand off all the protruding gussets and block
sand the ribs all to exactly the same contour. When gluing, be sure to wipe
all the surplus epoxy off of the joints, not to make them stronger or anything,
just to massage your own ego!
Spars are =BE inch vertical grain fir. There are, at least in my area some dealers
that handle this material, and if you explain the project, hopefully developing
their enthusiasm, they will let you go through their stock to pick out
that most suited for you. I believe there is an EAA publication outlining the
specs for the material you need, it's called "EAA Aircraft Building Techniques,
Wood" I did not use the little wood wedges that Mr. Pietenpol shows on the
plans, but simply cut the top of the spar to fit the angle. The cheek plates for
fittings are made of 1/16 and 1/8 ply as needed. Be sure to sand the plywood
before gluing with, again T-88 epoxy. The tip bow is laminated and you should
be able to use the one on the salvaged wing, along with all the metal fittings.
Just sandblast the fittings and refinish. Since we are in a dry climate here,
I protected the fittings with just a coat of "Krylon" primer and then a topcoat
of the same brand.
Build yourself a table to assemble the wing on. It needs to be flat and level
and build it long enough to hold both the wing and center section. You will build
the wing on the table to the existing center section so that when everything
is put together on the plane, it will fit with no surprises.
I would suggest that you slide the ribs on the spar and before permanently fastening
them down, that you put in the drag and antidrag cables and then adjust
the spacing of the ribs slightly to clear them. You can see that I didn't do
this and had to in several places put on some doublers and cut the truss members
to avoid the wires. Also, even though the plans call for 1" nails to fasten
the ribs to the main spar, these are too long. Instead, you only need to use
about a =BD inch long nail, and be sure you drive these in the exact center of
the spar (the neutral axis) only. This is to avoid weakening the spar. The epoxy
is really the connection to the spar, the nail is only to clamp the rib to
the spar until the epoxy sets.
The leading and trailing edges use the same wood as you will use for the ribs.
Block all the trailing edges of the ribs to the same height and cut the trailing
edge to the same angles as the ribs, just a little larger than the finished
part will be. You will need to scarf the trailing edge in some place, because
it is doubtful that you will have a long enough piece to do it all in one shot.
Now here is where I differed from the plans. You will notice that I made
up 1/8 inch plywood biscuits and then used these to connect the trailing edge
to the ribs. To do this I made up a jig incorporating a router and biscuit cutter
that can be used on both the rib and trailing edge. I am lending this to you
and will send it along with the plans that I forgot to give you before. Just
return it when you are done.
The leading edge is made up the same way as the trailing edge, scarfed and run
through the table saw to the approximate angles as the rib and plans show. I
made it just a little oversized and then rabbited the plywood on the top leading
edge into the solid leading edge. You can see how this was done on the salvage
wing. Don't put any support for the rear edge of the ply. Without any support,
the fabric will pull down the ply between the ribs and then there is a smooth
transition for the airflow. Bernie was one darned smart feller! I used Australian
Hoop Pine, this is advertised in the magazines. Don't remember the thickness,
but you can measure what is there and order what you need. This stuff
comes in 5 foot lengths and will have to be scarfed together. I made up a jig
to hold the proper angle and then used a drum sander on my radial arm saw to
cut the work pieces.
The leading edge is bolted in place and then hand finished with a jack plane
and rough 80 grit sanding block to the final shape. I would suggest that you make
a template of the leading edge of the good wing so that the leading edges
of the two wing panels are the same. This will help to ensure that once you have
the rigging right, the there will be less of a tendency for one wing to stall
first.
After the wing is assembled, be sure to "trammel" wing and adjust the cables
to get the wing perfectly square. Use the "twang method" to get even tension.
They don't have to be super tight, just taut with little strain on the fittings.
Now its time to go to work with the sandpaper again. Work up to about a 220 grit
and then varnish with "Varathane" or something similar. Put two coats on and
sand between coats. Don't need to worry about a two part epoxy for finishing,
the fabric cement you use later will dry quickly enough that it will not attack
the finish. It might just soften it a little and really provides a better
bond when cured.
At this point, you should have a new wing, all varnished, no rough spots, connected
to the center section and ready to cover. Pull the center section off,
find a cool beverage and take your wife and kids away for a short vacation to
make up for the time spent away from the family while building the wing. We'll
talk about covering then.
Cordially,
John
PS Made wine this last weekend from a new crop of California grapes. Won't be
ready for a couple of years or more, but will enclose with the plans and router
jig, a bottle of our 2000 Petit Sarah. I think you will enjoy the label!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel strainer mesh |
Hey Corky
A boat dealer should have that screen.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel strainer mesh
Thanks, I tried McMaster and couldn't bring up anything but completed fixtures.
I wanted some raw material. Of course I'm not sharp, even dull, on this computer.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Scimitar Prop |
Chuck
I would like to know more about this. If you plan on pursuing this, keep me
in mind. Maybe this could be a Sun N Fun project.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Scimitar Prop
>
> I'm going to see if I can kick up any interest in the design of a
'Scimitar
> Prop'. I've brought up this subject in years past on this list, but had
only
> limited interest.
> As we all know, a propeller absorbs the energy of the fuel burned in
the
> engine, and dispenses it in the form of thrust. Whenever energy is
> transformed from one form to another, some energy is transformed to some
other form
> which is lost to intent of thrust. Energy cannot be created nor
destroyed...it's
> a fact of physics. Therefore, the more efficiently the 'Potential' energy
of
> the fuel that is burned, can be transformed into thrust, the less fuel
will be
> required to perform a given amount of work. A given fixed pitch prop is
most
> efficient at a specific r.p.m., and a specific forward speed. This is why
> adjustable props came into play, and high performance airplanes usually
have
> Constant Speed Props. Here is where the Scimitar Prop comes in. The
blades of
> the Scimitar Prop will twist to a lower blade angle for the high thrust
> required for takeoff and climb, then once airborne and power is pulled,
the prop
> unloads and flexes back almost to the blade angle it was carved at. Hence
you
> have an adjustable blade angle prop, with No Moving Parts !! Pretty cool,
huh?
> Wood is the chosen material for this design, because it will not fatigue,
it's
> readily available, and it's relatively easy to work with.
>
> Here are the forces imposed upon a Propeller:
>
> 1. Centrifugal Force - Most powerful force, tends to pull the blades
> outward away from the hub.
>
> 2. Thrust Bending Force - Blade tips bend forward when put under a
load.
>
> 3. Torque Bending Force - Blades bend opposite the direction of
> rotation.
>
> 4. Aerodynamic Twisting Force - Twists the blade at the aerodynamic
> center of pressure. Tends to twist the blades to High Pitch.
>
> 5. Centrifugal Twisting Force - The Mass of the blade, under a
> centrifugal force, tends to twist the blades to a Lower Pitch.
>
> 6. Vibration Force (Resonance) - Everything has a resonant frequency,
> according to the mass, and the location of the mass.
>
> A Scimitar design prop takes advantage of these forces to twist the
> blades to a lower blade angle for takeoff and climb, and then when in
cruise flight
> and power is pulled back, and the prop unloads, the blade angle relaxes
back
> to a higher blade angle, and you have a cruise prop.
> Steve Wittman certainly understood the potential of a scimitar design,
as
> evidence on the wall of his hanger in Oshkosh.
> I still can't understand why all props aren't of scimitar design.
With
> enough Research and Development, then mass production could easily bring
the
> additional labor involved, down to a competitive cost. I have searched
the
> library at Oshkosh, lots of web sites, and asked lots of people about
scimitar
> props. By far, the best info I've found on it, is the couple of pages in
Eric
> Clutton's book. I did, however, discover that the concept came about in
W.W.I
> aircraft. The design showed potential, but what happened on several
occasions
> was that in a dogfight, the lead plane would go into a dive, in an effort
to
> escape the aggressor, and the engine / prop would overspeed, then the
blades
> would begin to flutter, and disintegrate. You can imagine the vibration
of a
> broken prop blade, and if power wasn't pulled and shut down the engine, it
would
> then shake the engine right off the plane, and now, with a tail heavy CG
> condition, the plane would spin to the ground. Even if the pilot was able
to shut
> down the engine in time, he was then a glider pilot...easy prey. I
believe
> when you over-run the prop of a scimitar design, the aerodynamics are what
> cause the flutter. I have heard stories about how props de-laminate when
using
> thin laminates of wood, however these props had the width of the planks in
the
> conventional direction. The cause of these de-laminations could also have
been
> the technique of construction. The big question, is if any successful
props
> were built using the parameters that Eric Clutton set forth. I do not
know
> the answer to that question.
> I still plan of building one, but haven't began construction, yet.
The
> method of construction I would use, is laminates of 1/4" or less, bend
each
> laminate in a jig, to match the 'S' shape of the prop, and use T88
exclusively,
> but to avoid squeezing too much of the adhesive out, by using either scrim
> cloth between the laminates, or glass beads in the mixture of epoxy. The
type of
> wood would I'll use, is still undecided yet, but the type of types of
> acceptable prop wood is called out in the AC 43.13-1A.
> Now, the challenge of designing a reliable Scimitar Prop, using the
mass
> of the blade to twist the blade to a lower blade angle for takeoff and
climb,
> then back almost to the blade angles that they were cut at, when the prop
> unloads. The laminations would be perpendicular to the direction of
conventional
> props, so as to achieve the dramatic arc of the blades, as set forth by
Eric
> Cluttons design.
> I'm looking for any input, pros or cons, and especially if anyone is
> aware of an aircraft that has used this design prop successfully.
>
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> Pietenpol Aircamper
> NX770CG
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Fw: Piets for Sale |
A friend of mine found these adds in COPA ( Canadian AOPA )
I know nothing about them. They're 3000 miles away from me.
Brantford is in Ontario. Almost directly north of Erie, as the crow flies.
L'Assomption is a little north of Montreal in Quebec.
From the Classified Section of the September 2004 Issue of the COPA Newspaper:
Category: HOMEBUILT
- 1978 PEITEN POL, 2 place open cockpit tail dragger, 65 continental engine, CR
moly fuselage, chrome, yellow and black paint 06/03, tail recovered, new windshields
and hydraulic brakes, real sharp/must see. $21,500 Brantford area. 519-443-4142
- PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER BMV2, 750TT 250SMOH on Continental A75. Com11A, ICS ELT,
two David Clark Headsets, $17,000CDN. Nice, fun, easy to fly. Hangared in L'Assomption.
Call 450-582-4903
Mis-spelling (i.e.: PEITEN POL) in first ad copied directly from the printed page.
Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Piets for Sale on Barnstormers.com |
There are a few goodies for sale on Barnstormers right now. Check out:
http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php
Mike C.
(A fall-like 46 F this morning when I left for work. We're saving on
using the A/C at least:)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another firewall question |
Thanks for the info John, what is the best kind of tool for bending
(shrinking) sheet metal around a curve? Fluting plyers?
And one other sheet metal question, I have noticed that the edges of
cowling aluminum sheet is bent slightly all along its edge about a
half inch from the edge. Makes the cowling look a lot better. Any
special tool used for this or do you just lay the aluminum edge over
the edge of the workbench and beat on it?
Thanks
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 8:47 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another firewall question
>
>
> =============================
> Rick,
>
> I used fiberfrax in between the ply firewall and .020 aluminum. Then
> around the edges of the firewall in order to mount the cowling, I made up
> some angle of .040 aluminum measuring .75 x .75 inches. This was fluted
> (shrunk) on one leg to fit the rounded top to the firewall and then screwed
> through the aluminum/fiberfrax/plywood sandwich.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> John
> ================================
> >
> > Is there any need to flute the edges of the firewall sheet metal on a
> > Piet? (As shown in Firewall Forward) or do you just cut the sheet to
> > match the same dimentions of the firewall ply?
> >
> > Thank You
> >
> > --
> > Rick Holland
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fluting the firewall |
Thanks for the info Mike, did you attach the front edges of your
cowling aluminum to the bent-over edge of the firewall stainless sheet
with wood or sheet-metal screws? If so is it attached on the top,
bottom, and sides?
Thanks
Rick Holland
wrote:
> Rick-- I fluted my curved portion ala Tony B. and it worked great. I
> wanted the firewall to not just lay over
> the plywood but to overlap the edges all the way around. I have a few
> small wood screws securing it to the
> 1/8" birch ply firewall and a very thin layer of fiberfrax we were throwing
> away at work here years ago.
> I don't know where you could find that stuff---possibly Wicks or ACS
> ? Dunno. This photo kinda shows the wrap around idea---least on the
> sides.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another firewall question |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another firewall question
============================
Rick,
Fluting pliers are just the ticket for shrinking the leg of the angle which
fits against the firewall. The screws that hold the angle to the firewall
are then located inbetween the flutes. The flange of the angle that faces
away from the firewall is then smooth and you can easily fasten the cowl to
it.
To make the cowlings, first roll them the the radius that you need, then use
a sheet metal brake to make the crease on each side so that the angle of the
creased section is the same as the fuselage side. Then you can use brass
inserts threaded into the strips that hold the fabric away from the plywood
sides to provide for machine screws to fasten the cowlings. Be sure that
the "stand off strips" are made of a hardwood and of sufficient width to
receive the brass inserts.
John
===================================
>
> Thanks for the info John, what is the best kind of tool for bending
> (shrinking) sheet metal around a curve? Fluting plyers?
>
> And one other sheet metal question, I have noticed that the edges of
> cowling aluminum sheet is bent slightly all along its edge about a
> half inch from the edge. Makes the cowling look a lot better. Any
> special tool used for this or do you just lay the aluminum edge over
> the edge of the workbench and beat on it?
>
> Thanks
>
>
wrote:
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 8:47 AM
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another firewall question
> >
> >
> > =============================
> > Rick,
> >
> > I used fiberfrax in between the ply firewall and .020 aluminum. Then
> > around the edges of the firewall in order to mount the cowling, I made
up
> > some angle of .040 aluminum measuring .75 x .75 inches. This was fluted
> > (shrunk) on one leg to fit the rounded top to the firewall and then
screwed
> > through the aluminum/fiberfrax/plywood sandwich.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > John
> > ================================
> > >
> > > Is there any need to flute the edges of the firewall sheet metal on a
> > > Piet? (As shown in Firewall Forward) or do you just cut the sheet to
> > > match the same dimentions of the firewall ply?
> > >
> > > Thank You
> > >
> > > --
> > > Rick Holland
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | firewall/cockpit cowl overlap |
<5.1.1.5.2.20040929120406.010a5ac0(at)popserve.grc.nasa.gov>
Rick-- I used I think three wood screws that went thru the front edge of my
.025" aluminum
cockpit cowl thru the bent-over edge of the firewall, and then into a 1/2"
or so wide of spruce
that I bowed to glue to the aft side of the 1/8" birch ply firewall. (to
reinforce it a bit)
Then the engine cowl I overlapped around the perimeter of the firewall by
about 1/2".
There is an attached sketch that shows a bit more.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Invitation: Hank Styne's Weiner Roast |
Hey Tick Hill Gang,
I would love to be there with you at Hank's but I have a
Shriner function that same day or I would fly the GN-1
there for dogs and fellowship.
Hopefully we will have some other events coming soon
before the cold (below 90 degrees) weather settles in
North Texas.
Have fun.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas, Texas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Invitation: Hank Styne's Weiner Roast
Howdy all,
The attached is an invitation from Hank Styne to his 16th annual
Weiner Roast at his place near Grandview, TX. Hank says the
invite applies to all those whe were at the Tick Hill Fly-In. I
talked to Max Davis and Jim Markle today and both are planning to
be there. I'll see you all there.
Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Firewall Insulation Material |
I've convinced myself to use Fiberfrax on my firewall and I have a few friends
locally who also want some. So I just purchased a whole roll of 1/2" thick premium
quality Ceramic blanket, 2300 degree (1260 Celcius) maximum temperature
rating. It is 8# density for good strength and thermal protection.
I expect to have it here by the middle of next week. I'll have a lot more than
enough material than we need here. So I'll be glad to offer cut-offs to Piet
builders for what I paid... $1.45/ sq.ft. + shipping costs. It comes in 1/2"
thick X 24" width. Just let me know what length you need and send me your address
and a check or M.O. for the amount you need. I estimate UPS shipping cost
within lower 48 states to be between $6 to $12.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Engine mount fittings and your firewall |
Terry and Group--- One thing that can bring tears to your eyes is not
having enough length on the metal ears of
those fittings that stick out thru your firewall that accept the bolts to
hold your motor mount on. (I guess the Ford has
the ash bearers, but the bottom are the same on all.
I made the ears on those fittings about 1/2" longer than the plans show
because I knew by the time I added the firewall,
the insulation, and the metal firewall that it might be a tough fit to get
the engine mount back far enough to make those
bolts slip thru the holes. As it was I just had enough room.
That 1/2" insulation will compress some Terry but you'd be fine to "peel" a
thinner layer off of it if it is the kink I am thinking
of.
You know how tight Bernie was with those fittings.......some of them as
designed just do not fit or work at all.
I would bet that Bernie just laid a piece of plywood over the front as a
fire wall with some shellac on it.
One thing that really helped me out was gluing the firewall plywood on
last. It was the last thing I did before covering.
It was all made up, test fit, had all the lines/service holes in it.....but
only screwed on and off many times before the final gluing.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Insulation Material |
Hi Terry,
Count me in for two feet. Just email me when it comes
in and I will send you a check. Thanks.
Doc
--- BARNSTMR(at)aol.com wrote:
> BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
>
>
> I've convinced myself to use Fiberfrax on my
> firewall and I have a few friends locally who also
> want some. So I just purchased a whole roll of 1/2"
> thick premium quality Ceramic blanket, 2300 degree
> (1260 Celcius) maximum temperature rating. It is 8#
> density for good strength and thermal protection.
>
> I expect to have it here by the middle of next week.
> I'll have a lot more than enough material than we
> need here. So I'll be glad to offer cut-offs to
> Piet builders for what I paid... $1.45/ sq.ft. +
> shipping costs. It comes in 1/2" thick X 24" width.
> Just let me know what length you need and send me
> your address and a check or M.O. for the amount you
> need. I estimate UPS shipping cost within lower 48
> states to be between $6 to $12.
>
> --
> Terry L. Bowden
> ph 254-715-4773
> fax 254-853-3805
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Insulation Material |
Terry,
I'll need an address to send you a check
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Insulation Material |
Corky...
How much are you going to need? Heres my address.
--
Terry L. Bowden
2457 Texas Highway 236
Moody, TX 76557
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | on fire during a flight in an open cockpit |
The most disconcerting thing (and enjoyable) thing that happens
when flying an open cockpit low and slow is that you can smell lots of things
going on at ground level like fires. When someone is burning a tire or you go
over a town with a plant that is putting out the scent of something
burning, it
always makes my mind race to "what if that is me ?" Sometimes you know
right away because it smells like a camp fire or mowed hay or.......manure
even,
then other times you can't see a smoke cloud and you smell it-----something
burning. The very first thing I do is an s-turn and look over my shoulder
to see if I
am trailing smoke. Once I see I am not, I relax again. (and engage the
autopilot
that is coupled to my inertial navigation system)
Mike C.
PS-- those of you who ride motorcycles know what that experience is like of
smelling things
much more easily than when riding in a car. You can smell steaks on the
grill, dryers going
with fabric softener, a good cigar, and even once in a while a Harley chick
with some nice perfume
ahead of you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Insulation Material |
One piece 24x27 inches since my fuse is 27 inches wide.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel strainer mesh |
Hi Corky
I have Catalog No 103. It's on page 218. I ordered 60 x60 Brass mesh in a 12 x
12 sheet.
The part no is 9223t144 for $6.82
Dale in Mpls
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel strainer mesh
Dale,
Would you mind looking up the page for me?
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Insulation Material |
Terry,
I am going to send you a check for 4 sq. ft ($5.80)
plus $10 shipping & handling. I'll put the check in
the mail tomorrow. Thanks.
Galen (Doc) Hutcheson
17 Meadowlark Lane
Harrison, AR 72601
Ph: 870-741-5539
--- BARNSTMR(at)aol.com wrote:
> BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
>
>
> I've convinced myself to use Fiberfrax on my
> firewall and I have a few friends locally who also
> want some. So I just purchased a whole roll of 1/2"
> thick premium quality Ceramic blanket, 2300 degree
> (1260 Celcius) maximum temperature rating. It is 8#
> density for good strength and thermal protection.
>
> I expect to have it here by the middle of next week.
> I'll have a lot more than enough material than we
> need here. So I'll be glad to offer cut-offs to
> Piet builders for what I paid... $1.45/ sq.ft. +
> shipping costs. It comes in 1/2" thick X 24" width.
> Just let me know what length you need and send me
> your address and a check or M.O. for the amount you
> need. I estimate UPS shipping cost within lower 48
> states to be between $6 to $12.
>
> --
> Terry L. Bowden
> ph 254-715-4773
> fax 254-853-3805
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel strainer mesh |
Thanks Dale, I'll get after it
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Don Hicks firewall material |
DON Hicks,
For some reason aol is blocking me from email to you direct.
I have 4 sq.ft. of firewall material set aside for you. My address below. Thanks
--
Terry L. Bowden
2457 Texas Hwy 236
Moody, TX 76557
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | mykitplane.com problems |
Anyone else having problems with mykitplane.com?
I get nothing but a blank screen and error messages when I go there. I've
adjusted my cookies and security settings and sent email to the
administrator, but no go.
Ken in Austin, neglecting his Pietenpol to paint rooms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: mykitplane.com problems |
You're not alone. I can't access my hanger files. I get the hanger opening
page, choose picture file or whatever, punch in name and password
and it sends me to the join up page. Back and forth, back and forth.
Gary says he has no problem when he does it so it must be at my end.
This is a pic of my new workshop. :-) I've done quite a bit since this
and will be starting the landing gear tommorow. Motor mount brackets
are done and have been fitted and removed for fuse varnishing. Bit by bit.
Clif, flying story junky, more please! :-) :-)
<ken@prototype-ideas.com>
>
>
> Anyone else having problems with mykitplane.com?
>
> I get nothing but a blank screen and error messages when I go there. I've
> adjusted my cookies and security settings and sent email to the
> administrator, but no go.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Smoke 'em if ya got 'em !! |
In a message dated 10/3/04 12:42:22 AM Central Daylight Time,
CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca writes:
<< Clif, flying story junky, more please! :-) :-) >>
OK Clif,
I've been having a blast with this smoke system. One of the guys at the
airport gave me about 4 gallons of the smoke oil that the Pepsi Plane used in the
airshow put on at Mc Connell AFB. It looks and feels the same as baby oil,
but it sure doesn't smell the same !! I always do a Smokin' Take Off. Get the
tail up, hit the button, make a vortex curl on each side of the smoke when the
wing grabs some lift, and leave it on till I'm past the crosswind leg. I did
a flight today, a little over an hour, where I blew circles above 3 different
friends houses, and smokin' flyby's at 3 different airports. I approach the
airports extra high on short final, then pull power down to about 1300 or 1400
rpm, and put it into a sharp slip, with a very steep approach, keeping the
airspeed up to at least 65 mph, and straighten 'er up after I cross the numbers.
The smoke all blows completely under the fuselage, and makes a straight line
off runway heading, then a low fly by about 60 mph, then add in full power
about 3/4 of the way down the runway to build airspeed up over 70 mph, and
gently pull the nose up into a relatively steep departure, keeping a close eye
on
the airspeed, never letting it drop below 60 mph. When I turn around to check
out the trail, the smoke hangs in 3 separate straight lines. Pretty Cool !!
I'm going to hold the camera backwards for a shot of it, next time I think of
it. The other day, I landed using the final rays of sunlight, and I was back
taxi on the grass during the perfectly calm evening of playing in the pattern
with a J3. I put in over 1000 rpm, dragging the brakes with the stick back,
and hit the button. Plumes of smoke surrounded the cockpit, and I couldn't
see anything behind me. Drug the smoke almost all the way back to the hanger.
In the perfectly calm air, the smoke hung there for at least 15 minutes !! It
looked like ground fog. I have my own weather maker !!
Chuck G.
who ever said smoking is bad for ya ??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for a GN-1... |
Steve,
got some more info for you.......the guy's name selling that GN-1 in Indiana
is Brian..... his number is 574-293-3135. If youre still interested give
him a call.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
The previous owner of my plane weighs 170#. I am a
218# fatty. We have weighed the plane with empy fuel
but full radiator.
Does anyone have a simple procedure for determining
the CG, with my fat rear in place and full tanks?
Also, the Bill Rewey seminar listed a maximum aft
location for the CG but I cannot find my notes.
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
_______________________________
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
The simplest (and most accurate) is to level the plane with EMPTY tanks but
ready to fly (leave "unusable" fuel in the tank). Weigh it and determine
the CG location. Then put yourself in the cockpit (in what you would wear
to fly, no cheating! Most of us seem to use our weight just before getting
into the shower but not many of us fly "buck neked". If you do, and if you
aren't a beautiful under 30 female, I don't want to know about it.) and
weigh it and determine CG again. Next, put full fuel in and repeat the
process. Don't forget to MEASURE THE GALLONS OF FUEL YOU ADD! Last, put
your backside in the cockpit with the full fuel and do it a fourth time.
Most will think this is excessive but, you wouldn't believe how often the
numbers you measure WON'T match what you calculated they "should be". Your
seat probably isn't exactly where you think it is, your tank probably
doesn't hold exactly what you think it does, the tank probably isn't exactly
where you think it is and none of our bodies CGs are where we usually think
they are.
Once you have the location of the CG on the fuselage (for each condition)
you need to measure where it falls ON THE WING CHORD. No matter what ANYONE
ELSE TELLS YOU, all that matters is where the CG is on the wing NOT THE
DISTANCE FROM THE FIREWALL, THE PROP FLANGE OR ANY OTHER PLACE. THE WING!
JUST THE WING! ONLY THE WING! There are some guys out there on some of the
groups that have stretched tails and noses and moved wings and think the CG
should still fall at the same fuselage station. I have 30 years as an
aerospace engineer and you have GOT TO TRUST ME, those guys are going to
kill someone. Keep the CG in the limits ON THE WING. You have to be in the
limits for all of the conditions you measured. If you aren't you need to
move something to make sure it is, even if it requires ballast. You haven't
had a thrill till you burn fuel from a nose tank that puts you in an aft CG
condition and fly into turbulence. Weight transfers from your body to the
seat FAST but it doesn't move the CG to help you, it just ruins the seat.
If you need help with the math or in set up methods for measuring, just ask,
but this ISN'T a place to scrimp. An incorrect CG can and will kill you.
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and Balance
>
> The previous owner of my plane weighs 170#. I am a
> 218# fatty. We have weighed the plane with empy fuel
> but full radiator.
>
> Does anyone have a simple procedure for determining
> the CG, with my fat rear in place and full tanks?
>
> Also, the Bill Rewey seminar listed a maximum aft
> location for the CG but I cannot find my notes.
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
> _______________________________
> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> http://vote.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
Hank, I rarely fly nekkid, but I sure would like the
math procedure and I would like to know the "limits"
of where the CG falls on the wing chord.
I can do the moment arm, etc of indivual parts, but
the whole assembly is stumping me.
--- hjarrett wrote:
>
>
> The simplest (and most accurate) is to level the
> plane with EMPTY tanks but
> ready to fly (leave "unusable" fuel in the tank).
> Weigh it and determine
> the CG location. Then put yourself in the cockpit
> (in what you would wear
> to fly, no cheating! Most of us seem to use our
> weight just before getting
> into the shower but not many of us fly "buck neked".
> If you do, and if you
> aren't a beautiful under 30 female, I don't want to
> know about it.) and
> weigh it and determine CG again. Next, put full
> fuel in and repeat the
> process. Don't forget to MEASURE THE GALLONS OF
> FUEL YOU ADD! Last, put
> your backside in the cockpit with the full fuel and
> do it a fourth time.
> Most will think this is excessive but, you wouldn't
> believe how often the
> numbers you measure WON'T match what you calculated
> they "should be". Your
> seat probably isn't exactly where you think it is,
> your tank probably
> doesn't hold exactly what you think it does, the
> tank probably isn't exactly
> where you think it is and none of our bodies CGs are
> where we usually think
> they are.
> Once you have the location of the CG on the fuselage
> (for each condition)
> you need to measure where it falls ON THE WING
> CHORD. No matter what ANYONE
> ELSE TELLS YOU, all that matters is where the CG is
> on the wing NOT THE
> DISTANCE FROM THE FIREWALL, THE PROP FLANGE OR ANY
> OTHER PLACE. THE WING!
> JUST THE WING! ONLY THE WING! There are some guys
> out there on some of the
> groups that have stretched tails and noses and moved
> wings and think the CG
> should still fall at the same fuselage station. I
> have 30 years as an
> aerospace engineer and you have GOT TO TRUST ME,
> those guys are going to
> kill someone. Keep the CG in the limits ON THE
> WING. You have to be in the
> limits for all of the conditions you measured. If
> you aren't you need to
> move something to make sure it is, even if it
> requires ballast. You haven't
> had a thrill till you burn fuel from a nose tank
> that puts you in an aft CG
> condition and fly into turbulence. Weight transfers
> from your body to the
> seat FAST but it doesn't move the CG to help you, it
> just ruins the seat.
> If you need help with the math or in set up methods
> for measuring, just ask,
> but this ISN'T a place to scrimp. An incorrect CG
> can and will kill you.
> Hank J
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 5:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and Balance
>
>
>
> >
> > The previous owner of my plane weighs 170#. I am a
> > 218# fatty. We have weighed the plane with empy
> fuel
> > but full radiator.
> >
> > Does anyone have a simple procedure for
> determining
> > the CG, with my fat rear in place and full tanks?
> >
> > Also, the Bill Rewey seminar listed a maximum aft
> > location for the CG but I cannot find my notes.
> >
> > =====
> > Larry Nelson
> > Springfield, MO
> > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > SV/ Spirit of America
> > ARS WB0JOT
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________
> > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> > http://vote.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
Here's 4 programs that I used. They are the 4 different scenes that you
will run into in a Piet. Worst is pilot only with low fuel, and best is
full gross with full nose fuel. Use the one you want. Just change the
numbers and the final CG changes before your eyes!!!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and Balance
>
> The previous owner of my plane weighs 170#. I am a
> 218# fatty. We have weighed the plane with empy fuel
> but full radiator.
>
> Does anyone have a simple procedure for determining
> the CG, with my fat rear in place and full tanks?
>
> Also, the Bill Rewey seminar listed a maximum aft
> location for the CG but I cannot find my notes.
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
> _______________________________
> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> http://vote.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
Your warning is correct. You need to locate the CG on the wing.
However most use a convenient point on the plane as their reference or
datum. The distance that the leading edge is from that datum will be in the
computed distance to the CG. The actual CG can be referenced by subtracting
that distance. Most designers specify a distance from a datum instead of
the distance or percent of chord. Either method IF done correctly, will
work.
For further details, check AC 43.13-1B There is a complete method set up by
the FAA for weight and Balance.
Cy Galley
EAA Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and Balance
>
> The simplest (and most accurate) is to level the plane with EMPTY tanks
but
> ready to fly (leave "unusable" fuel in the tank). Weigh it and determine
> the CG location. Then put yourself in the cockpit (in what you would wear
> to fly, no cheating! Most of us seem to use our weight just before
getting
> into the shower but not many of us fly "buck neked". If you do, and if
you
> aren't a beautiful under 30 female, I don't want to know about it.) and
> weigh it and determine CG again. Next, put full fuel in and repeat the
> process. Don't forget to MEASURE THE GALLONS OF FUEL YOU ADD! Last, put
> your backside in the cockpit with the full fuel and do it a fourth time.
> Most will think this is excessive but, you wouldn't believe how often the
> numbers you measure WON'T match what you calculated they "should be".
Your
> seat probably isn't exactly where you think it is, your tank probably
> doesn't hold exactly what you think it does, the tank probably isn't
exactly
> where you think it is and none of our bodies CGs are where we usually
think
> they are.
> Once you have the location of the CG on the fuselage (for each condition)
> you need to measure where it falls ON THE WING CHORD. No matter what
ANYONE
> ELSE TELLS YOU, all that matters is where the CG is on the wing NOT THE
> DISTANCE FROM THE FIREWALL, THE PROP FLANGE OR ANY OTHER PLACE. THE WING!
> JUST THE WING! ONLY THE WING! There are some guys out there on some of
the
> groups that have stretched tails and noses and moved wings and think the
CG
> should still fall at the same fuselage station. I have 30 years as an
> aerospace engineer and you have GOT TO TRUST ME, those guys are going to
> kill someone. Keep the CG in the limits ON THE WING. You have to be in
the
> limits for all of the conditions you measured. If you aren't you need to
> move something to make sure it is, even if it requires ballast. You
haven't
> had a thrill till you burn fuel from a nose tank that puts you in an aft
CG
> condition and fly into turbulence. Weight transfers from your body to the
> seat FAST but it doesn't move the CG to help you, it just ruins the seat.
> If you need help with the math or in set up methods for measuring, just
ask,
> but this ISN'T a place to scrimp. An incorrect CG can and will kill you.
> Hank J
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 5:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and Balance
>
>
> >
> > The previous owner of my plane weighs 170#. I am a
> > 218# fatty. We have weighed the plane with empy fuel
> > but full radiator.
> >
> > Does anyone have a simple procedure for determining
> > the CG, with my fat rear in place and full tanks?
> >
> > Also, the Bill Rewey seminar listed a maximum aft
> > location for the CG but I cannot find my notes.
> >
> > =====
> > Larry Nelson
> > Springfield, MO
> > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > SV/ Spirit of America
> > ARS WB0JOT
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________
> > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> > http://vote.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
Hank,
Excellent detailed procedure. Couldn't agree more with the pros and cons of
using anything but the LE of the wing for determining CG and limits. Adding
and subtracting ARMs to do moments, isn't brain surgery. Some guys like all
positive arms, but all homebuilts are different. Second issue, the purpose
of homebuilding is to LEARN. Learning about CG, MAC, materials limts in
construction, contruction techniques is the reason for homebuilts. It is
especially a problem when an non-builder pilot becomes PIC test pilot of a
newly bought toy someone else built from scratch.
Now to the question of Larry. Wing Chord- and CG. Just about all
straight wing (verus swept backward like a canard pusher type), I've seen
use 20% of chord for loaded forward CG limit max. (this depends on the
elevator authority available to keep the nose in the air at flare), 32% of
Chord for loaded AFT CG limit. So when you run low on fuel, and you're 300
lbs, have you slowly slid past the AFT CG limit on your wing as you burnt
off fuel, therefore going into a tail heavy unrecoverable stall, or do you
do your homework about MAC and CG limits before you start your engine?
Every homebuilder should build there own CG envelope based on Hank's
excellent procedure outlined below. Do the flight test work on the plane,
using a guideline of loaded configuration - forward CG max. 25%, Aft CG of
28%, in test loaded configuration. Maintain this very narrow CG envelope
test area until you can safely expand the loaded configuration to the max of
20% forward and max. 32% aft. and max takeoff weight configuration. Any of
you aerospace wing design Engineers can jump on these % numbers with other
hard data or facts, I'm only a reporting these numbers from observations of
many types of homebuilts with straight wings.
Every homebuilt airplane is going to have a different looking CG envelope.
Maybe sloped forward at max. fuel and max passenger wt, or maybe sloped
backward to account of fuel burn-off. This is something you learn about
homebuilts just like the fuel plumbing or wiring.
Every Pilot, by default is a TEST pilot on a homebuilt. You gotta learn or
you'll burn.
Gordon Bowen
N-1033B
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and Balance
>
> Hank, I rarely fly nekkid, but I sure would like the
> math procedure and I would like to know the "limits"
> of where the CG falls on the wing chord.
>
> I can do the moment arm, etc of indivual parts, but
> the whole assembly is stumping me.
>
>
> --- hjarrett wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > The simplest (and most accurate) is to level the
> > plane with EMPTY tanks but
> > ready to fly (leave "unusable" fuel in the tank).
> > Weigh it and determine
> > the CG location. Then put yourself in the cockpit
> > (in what you would wear
> > to fly, no cheating! Most of us seem to use our
> > weight just before getting
> > into the shower but not many of us fly "buck neked".
> > If you do, and if you
> > aren't a beautiful under 30 female, I don't want to
> > know about it.) and
> > weigh it and determine CG again. Next, put full
> > fuel in and repeat the
> > process. Don't forget to MEASURE THE GALLONS OF
> > FUEL YOU ADD! Last, put
> > your backside in the cockpit with the full fuel and
> > do it a fourth time.
> > Most will think this is excessive but, you wouldn't
> > believe how often the
> > numbers you measure WON'T match what you calculated
> > they "should be". Your
> > seat probably isn't exactly where you think it is,
> > your tank probably
> > doesn't hold exactly what you think it does, the
> > tank probably isn't exactly
> > where you think it is and none of our bodies CGs are
> > where we usually think
> > they are.
> > Once you have the location of the CG on the fuselage
> > (for each condition)
> > you need to measure where it falls ON THE WING
> > CHORD. No matter what ANYONE
> > ELSE TELLS YOU, all that matters is where the CG is
> > on the wing NOT THE
> > DISTANCE FROM THE FIREWALL, THE PROP FLANGE OR ANY
> > OTHER PLACE. THE WING!
> > JUST THE WING! ONLY THE WING! There are some guys
> > out there on some of the
> > groups that have stretched tails and noses and moved
> > wings and think the CG
> > should still fall at the same fuselage station. I
> > have 30 years as an
> > aerospace engineer and you have GOT TO TRUST ME,
> > those guys are going to
> > kill someone. Keep the CG in the limits ON THE
> > WING. You have to be in the
> > limits for all of the conditions you measured. If
> > you aren't you need to
> > move something to make sure it is, even if it
> > requires ballast. You haven't
> > had a thrill till you burn fuel from a nose tank
> > that puts you in an aft CG
> > condition and fly into turbulence. Weight transfers
> > from your body to the
> > seat FAST but it doesn't move the CG to help you, it
> > just ruins the seat.
> > If you need help with the math or in set up methods
> > for measuring, just ask,
> > but this ISN'T a place to scrimp. An incorrect CG
> > can and will kill you.
> > Hank J
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 5:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and Balance
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > The previous owner of my plane weighs 170#. I am a
> > > 218# fatty. We have weighed the plane with empy
> > fuel
> > > but full radiator.
> > >
> > > Does anyone have a simple procedure for
> > determining
> > > the CG, with my fat rear in place and full tanks?
> > >
> > > Also, the Bill Rewey seminar listed a maximum aft
> > > location for the CG but I cannot find my notes.
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Larry Nelson
> > > Springfield, MO
> > > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> > > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > > SV/ Spirit of America
> > > ARS WB0JOT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________
> > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> > > http://vote.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/chat
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
I appreciate all the advice and have copied the
programs. I also got out my old EAA books from back in
the late 60's.
Please remember that my airplane has been flying since
1989, just not with me in it. I am wanting to
ascertain, before I lift off, that my wing is in the
correct position for my impressive bulk. Howard
Henderson is a thin man, and Joe Santana, the previous
owner, is 170#.
thanks again.
--- Gordon Bowen wrote:
>
>
> Hank,
> Excellent detailed procedure. Couldn't agree more
> with the pros and cons of
> using anything but the LE of the wing for
> determining CG and limits. Adding
> and subtracting ARMs to do moments, isn't brain
> surgery. Some guys like all
> positive arms, but all homebuilts are different.
> Second issue, the purpose
> of homebuilding is to LEARN. Learning about CG,
> MAC, materials limts in
> construction, contruction techniques is the reason
> for homebuilts. It is
> especially a problem when an non-builder pilot
> becomes PIC test pilot of a
> newly bought toy someone else built from scratch.
>
> Now to the question of Larry. Wing Chord- and CG.
> Just about all
> straight wing (verus swept backward like a canard
> pusher type), I've seen
> use 20% of chord for loaded forward CG limit max.
> (this depends on the
> elevator authority available to keep the nose in the
> air at flare), 32% of
> Chord for loaded AFT CG limit. So when you run low
> on fuel, and you're 300
> lbs, have you slowly slid past the AFT CG limit on
> your wing as you burnt
> off fuel, therefore going into a tail heavy
> unrecoverable stall, or do you
> do your homework about MAC and CG limits before you
> start your engine?
>
> Every homebuilder should build there own CG envelope
> based on Hank's
> excellent procedure outlined below. Do the flight
> test work on the plane,
> using a guideline of loaded configuration - forward
> CG max. 25%, Aft CG of
> 28%, in test loaded configuration. Maintain this
> very narrow CG envelope
> test area until you can safely expand the loaded
> configuration to the max of
> 20% forward and max. 32% aft. and max takeoff weight
> configuration. Any of
> you aerospace wing design Engineers can jump on
> these % numbers with other
> hard data or facts, I'm only a reporting these
> numbers from observations of
> many types of homebuilts with straight wings.
>
> Every homebuilt airplane is going to have a
> different looking CG envelope.
> Maybe sloped forward at max. fuel and max passenger
> wt, or maybe sloped
> backward to account of fuel burn-off. This is
> something you learn about
> homebuilts just like the fuel plumbing or wiring.
>
> Every Pilot, by default is a TEST pilot on a
> homebuilt. You gotta learn or
> you'll burn.
>
> Gordon Bowen
> N-1033B
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 2:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and Balance
>
>
>
> >
> > Hank, I rarely fly nekkid, but I sure would like
> the
> > math procedure and I would like to know the
> "limits"
> > of where the CG falls on the wing chord.
> >
> > I can do the moment arm, etc of indivual parts,
> but
> > the whole assembly is stumping me.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- hjarrett wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > The simplest (and most accurate) is to level the
> > > plane with EMPTY tanks but
> > > ready to fly (leave "unusable" fuel in the
> tank).
> > > Weigh it and determine
> > > the CG location. Then put yourself in the
> cockpit
> > > (in what you would wear
> > > to fly, no cheating! Most of us seem to use our
> > > weight just before getting
> > > into the shower but not many of us fly "buck
> neked".
> > > If you do, and if you
> > > aren't a beautiful under 30 female, I don't want
> to
> > > know about it.) and
> > > weigh it and determine CG again. Next, put full
> > > fuel in and repeat the
> > > process. Don't forget to MEASURE THE GALLONS OF
> > > FUEL YOU ADD! Last, put
> > > your backside in the cockpit with the full fuel
> and
> > > do it a fourth time.
> > > Most will think this is excessive but, you
> wouldn't
> > > believe how often the
> > > numbers you measure WON'T match what you
> calculated
> > > they "should be". Your
> > > seat probably isn't exactly where you think it
> is,
> > > your tank probably
> > > doesn't hold exactly what you think it does, the
> > > tank probably isn't exactly
> > > where you think it is and none of our bodies CGs
> are
> > > where we usually think
> > > they are.
> > > Once you have the location of the CG on the
> fuselage
> > > (for each condition)
> > > you need to measure where it falls ON THE WING
> > > CHORD. No matter what ANYONE
> > > ELSE TELLS YOU, all that matters is where the CG
> is
> > > on the wing NOT THE
> > > DISTANCE FROM THE FIREWALL, THE PROP FLANGE OR
> ANY
> > > OTHER PLACE. THE WING!
> > > JUST THE WING! ONLY THE WING! There are some
> guys
> > > out there on some of the
> > > groups that have stretched tails and noses and
> moved
> > > wings and think the CG
> > > should still fall at the same fuselage station.
> I
> > > have 30 years as an
> > > aerospace engineer and you have GOT TO TRUST ME,
> > > those guys are going to
> > > kill someone. Keep the CG in the limits ON THE
> > > WING. You have to be in the
> > > limits for all of the conditions you measured.
> If
> > > you aren't you need to
> > > move something to make sure it is, even if it
> > > requires ballast. You haven't
> > > had a thrill till you burn fuel from a nose tank
> > > that puts you in an aft CG
> > > condition and fly into turbulence. Weight
> transfers
> > > from your body to the
> > > seat FAST but it doesn't move the CG to help
> you, it
> > > just ruins the seat.
> > > If you need help with the math or in set up
> methods
> > > for measuring, just ask,
> > > but this ISN'T a place to scrimp. An incorrect
> CG
> > > can and will kill you.
> > > Hank J
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 5:32 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and Balance
> > >
> > >
> Nelson
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The previous owner of my plane weighs 170#. I
> am a
> > > > 218# fatty. We have weighed the plane with
> empy
> > > fuel
>
=== message truncated ===
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
In a message dated 10/3/04 4:34:58 PM Central Daylight Time,
lnelson208(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< The previous owner of my plane weighs 170#. I am a
218# fatty. We have weighed the plane with empy fuel
but full radiator.
Does anyone have a simple procedure for determining
the CG, with my fat rear in place and full tanks? >>
Larry,
CG has always been a popular topic of Pietenpol aircraft. Last year at
Brodhead, Doc Moser pointed to the last two digits of my registration number
and said "Chuck, that's the most aft CG I've ever seen !!"
If your plane is in the same configuration as the previous owner, I can
all but guarantee that with you in the cockpit, you will be AFT of the aft
limit of the Center of Gravity...a dangerous place to be. Pietenpol's are
notoriously tail heavy, probably due to the fact that Bernard Pietenpol weighed
about
160 to 170 lbs.
B.H.P. called out the center of gravity range to be between 1/4 and 1/3
of the Chord. This translates to 25% to 33 1/3% of the chord. The chord is
60", so your C G range is between 15" and 20" aft of the leading edge.
The aft limit called out by BHP has always concerned me. Very few
aircraft have an aft limit that far back. I believe it is due to the undercambered
airfoil. This airfoil has a LOT of negative pitching moment, allowing the aft
CG limit to be so far back. If your Pietenpol does not have the airfoil
called out in the plans, you CAN NOT use the aft limit called out.
If you look at the last few pages of the 'Pietenpol Operation Manual'
that I sent you, you can see how to compute C G with paper & pencil. Simple
math, but very unforgiving of mistakes. Do the math three times !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Smoke 'em if ya got 'em !! |
Chuck... Now you should teach yourself how to SKYWRITE.
Terry B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
Howdy gang...
I am WAY PUMPED up! Still on a roll getting things done on the project and
getting a little closer every week.
Just got home from a great weekend up at Jim Markle's house. I took some
small welded steel parts up and Jim gave me an indoctination to the art of powder
coating. And I am impressed. Either Jim is one super artist.... or
powdercoating is waayyy cool..... or BOTH!! I think its both! :)
We did my rudder pedals, both control sticks and the tail spring assembly,
and some other miscellaneous parts. They turned out georgeous. I'll post some
pictures soon. Thanks Jim, Julia, Ethan, and Ben for a great time, wonderful
hospitality, and for the help. What a boost it is to have friends like you.
Thats what this group is all about.
Everyone keep building... hope to see you at Broadheat next year.
Terry B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Smoke 'em if ya got 'em !! |
Chuck, you're having way to much fun! :-) :-)
I love it!
Maybe it's time for a Pietenpol " Red Bull " race. :-)
Clif
>
> In a message dated 10/3/04 12:42:22 AM Central Daylight Time,
> CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca writes:
>
> << Clif, flying story junky, more please! :-) :-) >>
>
> OK Clif,
> I've been having a blast with this smoke system. One of the guys at the
> airport gave me about 4 gallons of the smoke oil that the Pepsi Plane used
in the
> airshow put on at Mc Connell AFB.
>
> Chuck G.
> who ever said smoking is bad for ya ??
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Smoke 'em if ya got 'em !! |
Check this out;
http://www.archive.org/movies/movieslisting-browse.php?collectionprelinger&catAviation:%20Skywriting
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Smoke 'em if ya got 'em !!
Chuck... Now you should teach yourself how to SKYWRITE.
Terry B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
There is something about building a Pietenpol that
waxes poetic in the heart of a man. The feel of
freshly sanded spruce cut with great care from large
slabs of two-by-six chuncks of wood just wanting to
someday be a Pietenpol. The mounds of sawdust on the
floor, the fresh scent of "new wood", the acrid but
plesent smell of epoxy...all that reeks of airplane!
The painstaking hours of stooping over a crude rib
jig, carefully mitering small sticks of wood to fit
tight and not quiting until they all fit tightly
together, then cutting rounded gussets by the droves
and miticulously sanding one side until the unwanted
gloss is all off knowing that once this surface is
mated to a piece of rib the joint will be stronger
than that wood itself. All these pieces of wood packed
with a goo so sitcky that a fly trapped in it would
never be free again, and the gussets and sticks matted
together with glue all pounded tightly together with
small microscopic nails driven with love and
determination hoping that one day this rib will become
the wing of a mighty airplane that will take the
builder/pilot on long flights over mint green meadows
floating among cotton white clouds painted upon an
azure blue sky...these are the dreams of a man who
started out with large two by six chuncks of wood
fourteen feet long.
Happy building my friends, and may all your aircraft
be as beautiful and as graceful as the work you poured
out on her and may she always take you to places that
only pilots who build their own airplanes can ever go
to.
Doc
--- BARNSTMR(at)aol.com wrote:
> Howdy gang...
> I am WAY PUMPED up! Still on a roll getting things
> done on the project and
> getting a little closer every week.
> Just got home from a great weekend up at Jim
> Markle's house. I took some
> small welded steel parts up and Jim gave me an
> indoctination to the art of powder
> coating. And I am impressed. Either Jim is one
> super artist.... or
> powdercoating is waayyy cool..... or BOTH!! I think
> its both! :)
> We did my rudder pedals, both control sticks and the
> tail spring assembly,
> and some other miscellaneous parts. They turned out
> georgeous. I'll post some
> pictures soon. Thanks Jim, Julia, Ethan, and Ben
> for a great time, wonderful
> hospitality, and for the help. What a boost it is
> to have friends like you.
> Thats what this group is all about.
> Everyone keep building... hope to see you at
> Broadheat next year.
> Terry B.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Smoke 'em if ya got 'em !! |
Chuck--- a few years back this great older guy at the airport and I were
chasing each other around in
the sky with him in his J-3 Cub. I could not shake this guy off my tail,
even tho the Piet can turn on a dime.
It was like I was being followed by Eddie Rickenbacker. I looked back
and Bob was right behind me, about 200 feet
back. I hit the smoke oil and flooded his view with thick white smoke and
you should have seen him bobble and
rock to get out of that so he could see. I'm sure his cockpit was filled
with the airshow aroma of Texaco Canoupus #13 Oil.
When we re-grouped after our fun he told me that had we been flying armed
airplanes, that my smoke would have been black
and I would have been dead. How true. Made me respect the flying skills
of a 72 year old guy like you would not believe.
Mike C.
PS-- Chuck--- on a calm eve. before sunset, set yourself up in cruise
flight and hit the smoke, pull up hard left. Repeat
pulling up right, and look over your shoulder. Sometimes the vortex
action can swirl the smoke into smoke rings that stay
put long enough so that if you are fast enough you can do a 180 and fly
back thru them !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
Chuck, the Ops Manual I printed out (thanks, btw) did
not have any computation sheets with it. It was 10
pages and concluded with "cold weather operations".
--- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/3/04 4:34:58 PM Central
> Daylight Time,
> lnelson208(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> << The previous owner of my plane weighs 170#. I am
> a
> 218# fatty. We have weighed the plane with empy
> fuel
> but full radiator.
>
> Does anyone have a simple procedure for determining
> the CG, with my fat rear in place and full tanks?
> >>
>
> Larry,
> CG has always been a popular topic of Pietenpol
> aircraft. Last year at
> Brodhead, Doc Moser pointed to the last two digits
> of my registration number
> and said "Chuck, that's the most aft CG I've ever
> seen !!"
> If your plane is in the same configuration as
> the previous owner, I can
> all but guarantee that with you in the cockpit, you
> will be AFT of the aft
> limit of the Center of Gravity...a dangerous place
> to be. Pietenpol's are
> notoriously tail heavy, probably due to the fact
> that Bernard Pietenpol weighed about
> 160 to 170 lbs.
> B.H.P. called out the center of gravity range to
> be between 1/4 and 1/3
> of the Chord. This translates to 25% to 33 1/3% of
> the chord. The chord is
> 60", so your C G range is between 15" and 20" aft of
> the leading edge.
> The aft limit called out by BHP has always
> concerned me. Very few
> aircraft have an aft limit that far back. I believe
> it is due to the undercambered
> airfoil. This airfoil has a LOT of negative
> pitching moment, allowing the aft
> CG limit to be so far back. If your Pietenpol does
> not have the airfoil
> called out in the plans, you CAN NOT use the aft
> limit called out.
> If you look at the last few pages of the
> 'Pietenpol Operation Manual'
> that I sent you, you can see how to compute C G with
> paper & pencil. Simple
> math, but very unforgiving of mistakes. Do the math
> three times !!
>
> Chuck G.
> NX770CG
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
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> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
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>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
In a message dated 10/4/04 7:14:52 AM Central Daylight Time,
lnelson208(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< Chuck, the Ops Manual I printed out (thanks, btw) did
not have any computation sheets with it. It was 10
pages and concluded with "cold weather operations". >>
Larry,
I just sent you direct, the weight & balance portion of the opps manual. The
whole thing contained quite a bit of text, and I wonder if your server limits
how much can be included in an e-mail. Let me know if you compute !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Smoke 'em if ya got 'em !! |
In a message dated 10/3/04 10:05:20 PM Central Daylight Time,
BARNSTMR(at)aol.com writes:
<< Chuck... Now you should teach yourself how to SKYWRITE. >>
Yeah, if I could only keep it together enough to say 'YEEE HAAAAWW !!' Right
now the only word I can write is the big O. I guess there's something to
be said for that, but I'm not going to say it...
Hey, it's great to see some Texas Pietenpols making progress !! Before you
lay up that nose bowl, let me send a description of how I've been doing it.
Chuck G.
GO SPACE SHIP ONE !!!! We all have a kinship to them boys out in the
Mojave Desert.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/4/04 1:58:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
wacopitts(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< There is something about building a Pietenpol that
waxes poetic in the heart of a man. The feel of
freshly sanded spruce cut with great care from large
slabs of two-by-six chuncks of wood just wanting to
someday be a Pietenpol. The mounds of sawdust on the
floor, the fresh scent of "new wood", the acrid but
plesent smell of epoxy...all that reeks of airplane!
The painstaking hours of stooping over a crude rib
jig, carefully mitering small sticks of wood to fit
tight and not quiting until they all fit tightly
together, then cutting rounded gussets by the droves
and miticulously sanding one side until the unwanted
gloss is all off knowing that once this surface is
mated to a piece of rib the joint will be stronger
than that wood itself. All these pieces of wood packed
with a goo so sitcky that a fly trapped in it would
never be free again, and the gussets and sticks matted
together with glue all pounded tightly together with
small microscopic nails driven with love and
determination hoping that one day this rib will become
the wing of a mighty airplane that will take the
builder/pilot on long flights over mint green meadows
floating among cotton white clouds painted upon an
azure blue sky...these are the dreams of a man who
started out with large two by six chuncks of wood
fourteen feet long.
Happy building my friends, and may all your aircraft
be as beautiful and as graceful as the work you poured
out on her and may she always take you to places that
only pilots who build their own airplanes can ever go
to.
Doc >>
Well said Doc !! Keep after it, and you ship will take you there !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Smoke 'em if ya got 'em !! |
In a message dated 10/4/04 6:57:15 AM Central Daylight Time,
Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes:
<< Chuck--- a few years back this great older guy at the airport and I were
chasing each other around in
the sky with him in his J-3 Cub. I could not shake this guy off my tail,
even tho the Piet can turn on a dime.
It was like I was being followed by Eddie Rickenbacker. I looked back
and Bob was right behind me, about 200 feet
back. I hit the smoke oil and flooded his view with thick white smoke and
you should have seen him bobble and
rock to get out of that so he could see. I'm sure his cockpit was filled
with the airshow aroma of Texaco Canoupus #13 Oil.
When we re-grouped after our fun he told me that had we been flying armed
airplanes, that my smoke would have been black
and I would have been dead. How true. Made me respect the flying skills
of a 72 year old guy like you would not believe.
Mike C.
PS-- Chuck--- on a calm eve. before sunset, set yourself up in cruise
flight and hit the smoke, pull up hard left. Repeat
pulling up right, and look over your shoulder. Sometimes the vortex
action can swirl the smoke into smoke rings that stay
put long enough so that if you are fast enough you can do a 180 and fly
back thru them ! >>
Mike,
That's a great tale of your dog fight. Bob certainly knows what it's
like to 'Become at One with the Wing'. I wonder if the smoke left any residue
on
his windshield.
I don't like to pull much G's with the ol' Pietenpol, but I'll be trying
the one flying back through the vortex !! I'm also going to climb high, and
do a downward spirial with the power back some. I think a high power setting
tends to stir up the smoke with the prop wash, and make it disipate more
quickly. Calm winds are probably the biggest key to having the smoke hang in there.
Another good use for smoke is to announce your position as you enter the
pattern. Yeah, that's it...that's a good reason to have smoke system !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | SPL---Smoke Positioning Locator |
Chuck--- EXACTLY ! Last Sunday I was giving rides at our EAA pot-luck and
there were
three other planes doing the same thing and I wish they had smoke too. I
do the same when
entering a pattern--a puff of smoke here and there does not hurt to be seen
and avoided.
On the g-forces, I don't do anything wild either, but a firm pull-up left
or right sometimes produces
some neat swirls behind you w/ the smoke on.
I don't like to pump the oil at low power settings because it does not
vaporize completely and my gear
legs on the right side get coated with un-burnt oil.........and you know
what they say, " unburned smoke oil
is a terrible thing to waste" :) I can it "liquid fun".
Mike C.
PS-- I can't help wonder what the airliners on final for Cleveland Hopkins
Int'l Airport thing when they see me below
and to the right using smoke in the pattern or doing buzz jobs down the
runway with the smoke on ? I KNOW they
can see me because they are only 800-1000 above our pattern and about 1
mile west !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SPL---Smoke Positioning Locator |
Mike,
I agree with you that "smoke" is fun and can even help
make you visable to other A/C at times. After five
years of professional airshow acro in a highly
modified Pitts Special with two different smoke
systems (the Corvis oil-pumped to the exhaust manifold
via an electric fuel pump from a five gallon tank in
the top wing, and a second comprised of smoke
canisters of different colors of smoke bracketed on
the wing tips) that you should never burn smoke at low
RPM's. In the Pitts, that was a 1800 rpms. That is
to avoid a fire that could be (and has been) fatal.
Just be careful and keep the unburned oil cleaned from
the fuselage to prevent build-up. I think the smoke
systems are neat, but there are some hazards
associated with them. But also there are some hazards
in flying in general. Always fly safe and "happy
landings...always".
Doc
--- Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
>
> Chuck--- EXACTLY ! Last Sunday I was giving rides
> at our EAA pot-luck and
> there were
> three other planes doing the same thing and I wish
> they had smoke too. I
> do the same when
> entering a pattern--a puff of smoke here and there
> does not hurt to be seen
> and avoided.
>
> On the g-forces, I don't do anything wild either,
> but a firm pull-up left
> or right sometimes produces
> some neat swirls behind you w/ the smoke on.
>
> I don't like to pump the oil at low power settings
> because it does not
> vaporize completely and my gear
> legs on the right side get coated with un-burnt
> oil.........and you know
> what they say, " unburned smoke oil
> is a terrible thing to waste" :) I can it "liquid
> fun".
>
> Mike C.
>
> PS-- I can't help wonder what the airliners on final
> for Cleveland Hopkins
> Int'l Airport thing when they see me below
> and to the right using smoke in the pattern or doing
> buzz jobs down the
> runway with the smoke on ? I KNOW they
> can see me because they are only 800-1000 above our
> pattern and about 1
> mile west !
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks. I have been flying for over 30 years (the
last 12 years or so commercially doing what others
only could dream of doing in aviation and in that I
have been blessed) and I have now found a new thrill
in aviation-building and hopfully some day, fly my own
airplane created with my own hands. That is indeed a
thrill all its very own.
--- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/4/04 1:58:17 AM Central
> Daylight Time,
> wacopitts(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> << There is something about building a Pietenpol
> that
> waxes poetic in the heart of a man. The feel of
> freshly sanded spruce cut with great care from
> large
> slabs of two-by-six chuncks of wood just wanting to
> someday be a Pietenpol. The mounds of sawdust on
> the
> floor, the fresh scent of "new wood", the acrid but
> plesent smell of epoxy...all that reeks of
> airplane!
> The painstaking hours of stooping over a crude rib
> jig, carefully mitering small sticks of wood to fit
> tight and not quiting until they all fit tightly
> together, then cutting rounded gussets by the
> droves
> and miticulously sanding one side until the
> unwanted
> gloss is all off knowing that once this surface is
> mated to a piece of rib the joint will be stronger
> than that wood itself. All these pieces of wood
> packed
> with a goo so sitcky that a fly trapped in it would
> never be free again, and the gussets and sticks
> matted
> together with glue all pounded tightly together
> with
> small microscopic nails driven with love and
> determination hoping that one day this rib will
> become
> the wing of a mighty airplane that will take the
> builder/pilot on long flights over mint green
> meadows
> floating among cotton white clouds painted upon an
> azure blue sky...these are the dreams of a man who
> started out with large two by six chuncks of wood
> fourteen feet long.
>
> Happy building my friends, and may all your
> aircraft
> be as beautiful and as graceful as the work you
> poured
> out on her and may she always take you to places
> that
> only pilots who build their own airplanes can ever
> go
> to.
>
> Doc >>
>
> Well said Doc !! Keep after it, and you ship will
> take you there !!
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
Am getting nowhere attempting to unscrew the tack drive housing on the
backplate. The book says," left-handed threads " but it won't move for me. My engine
is an early model. Would it be possible for it to have right handed threads?
All I need to do is change the oil seal. Help, help, help. When I solve this
one it will be painted and assembled. Help
Eng # 5765268
Corky in La needing some help on this one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Corky I'm not sure, but I think my A65-8 has right hand threads on the tach drive
cover screw. I'll look at it tomorrow when I have the cowling off for the
FAA Airworthiness Inspection (yes, after 8 long years, mine is finally ready to
fly).
I'll let you know tomorrow.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
>
> From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
> Date: 2004/10/04 Mon AM 11:36:26 EDT
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: A 65-8
>
> Pieters,
>
> Am getting nowhere attempting to unscrew the tack drive housing on the
> backplate. The book says," left-handed threads " but it won't move for me. My
engine
> is an early model. Would it be possible for it to have right handed threads?
> All I need to do is change the oil seal. Help, help, help. When I solve this
> one it will be painted and assembled. Help
> Eng # 5765268
>
> Corky in La needing some help on this one.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A 65-8 tachometer drive... |
Corky,
In 50(+) years of messing around with A 65-8 Continentals, I have never seen a
right hand thread on the tachometer drive; they were always a left hand thread
indicated by an arrow.
Possibly the threads are corroded, making it difficult to break loose. Carefully
heating the rear case (I think it may be a magnesium alloy casting) and chilling
the tach drive adapter should help. Also, a penetrating oil might assist
you. Good luck!
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN in sunny Alberta)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
Corky,
Just went down and checked my 65 "core" engine. ser # 5543368, the tach assy
is a LEFT hand thread, (the tach cable cap is right hand.) Since it is aluminum,
I would make sure you used a box wrench or 6 point socket, as it is easy
to mangle the fitting.
In this case it's "lefty tighty-righty loosey"
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 11:36 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A 65-8
Pieters,
Am getting nowhere attempting to unscrew the tack drive housing on the backplate.
The book says," left-handed threads " but it won't move for me. My engine
is an early model. Would it be possible for it to have right handed threads?
All I need to do is change the oil seal. Help, help, help. When I solve this one
it will be painted and assembled. Help
Eng # 5765268
Corky in La needing some help on this one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tugwilsons(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 10/03/04 |
This smoke system seems like a lot of fun. How does it work? Is it easy to
build and fit one? Or do you just buy one to bolt on?
regards
Tug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com> |
I got up before dawn this morning and headed for the airport because I just KNEW
that it was going to be one of those dead calm, crisp mornings. I was right!!
On my preflight I noticed a spider web on the left wing going from the leading
edge to the front lift strut. I bypassed it and did the rest of my walk-around
then headed out. The sun and I rose together and I flew around a while smelling
the variety of odors that the early morning brings. Breakfasts cooking, clearings
being burned, livestock, etc. It was glorious! I did a couple of landings
at a nearby grass strip and headed for home.
Upon landing I noticed two things immediately; I am blowing a lot of oil, so my
winter project will be to replace whatever isn't sealing properly, and the second
thing was that the spiderweb was still there!! Piets ain't rockets, folks!
(The Piet is slow but the sky is patient)
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
report
Interesting, and not what I would have expected, but isn't it true that the
tensile strength of spider silk is eight times that of steel? And the spider
silk is elastic?
Steve
Quoting LAWRENCE WILLIAMS :
> I got up before dawn this morning and headed for the airport because I just
> KNEW that it was going to be one of those dead calm, crisp mornings. I was
> right!!
>
> On my preflight I noticed a spider web on the left wing going from the
> leading edge to the front lift strut. I bypassed it and did the rest of my
> walk-around then headed out. The sun and I rose together and I flew around a
> while smelling the variety of odors that the early morning brings. Breakfasts
> cooking, clearings being burned, livestock, etc. It was glorious! I did a
> couple of landings at a nearby grass strip and headed for home.
>
> Upon landing I noticed two things immediately; I am blowing a lot of oil, so
> my winter project will be to replace whatever isn't sealing properly, and the
> second thing was that the spiderweb was still there!! Piets ain't rockets,
> folks! (The Piet is slow but the sky is patient)
>
> Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
Don't feel bad. When I sent my case and accessory case off to DIVCO and Drake
Air (respectively) Drake almost totally screwed up my tach drive housing.
They almost succeeded in striping the tach drive when the turned it
counter-clockwise trying to remove it. Mine (off a Continental A-80) unscrews
counter-clockwise.
Try shooting some heat to the tach drive and if you can, place some ice on
the accessory case, then turn it counter-clockwise. It will help if you can soak
the joint for a few hours with a product my dad has used for many decades
called "Knocker Loose" before attempting to remove the tach drive.
Corky... did you get my DVD and look at it yet?
By the way, my cylinders (having a fresh nickle process) will be fresh from
an overhaul in Fort worth in about 4 weeks. My A-80 will look (and I suspect)
will run like a brand new factory engine with everything being yellow tagged,
including the carb.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
I messed up. (I had a Corona in my right hand when I should have had both
hands on the keyboard when I was sending my earlier message.)
My tach drive UNSCREWs righty and not lefty. Ice the tach drive and heat the
accessory case, or better yet, ice the Corona and invite the TACOS over and
collectively, we'll get that puppy off, somehow.
Sorry... One Corona, two Corona, three Corona, floor.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: homebuilt power |
hmmm... kinda like the Canadian Gov't does?!
DJ
----- Original Message -----
Can you even imagine how far
> aviation would have advanced had the governments of
> the world forbade the common man to experiment with
> airplanes. Probably we would all still be dreaming of
> flying.
>
> Doc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: homebuilt power |
OOHHH...I'm not mentioning any names, but if the shoe
fits, you know the rest. Doc
--- DJ Vegh wrote:
>
>
> hmmm... kinda like the Canadian Gov't does?!
>
> DJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Can you even imagine how far
> > aviation would have advanced had the governments
> of
> > the world forbade the common man to experiment
> with
> > airplanes. Probably we would all still be dreaming
> of
> > flying.
> >
> > Doc
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
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> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: homebuilt power |
I know where DJ lives. Where do you live Doc?
Clif, Vancouver, B.C. Canada.
>
> OOHHH...I'm not mentioning any names, but if the shoe
> fits, you know the rest. Doc
> --- DJ Vegh wrote:> >
> > hmmm... kinda like the Canadian Gov't does?!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: homebuilt power |
I live in a small city called Harrison, Arkansas. Its
about 30 miles south of Branson, MO.
Doc
--- Clif Dawson wrote:
>
>
> I know where DJ lives. Where do you live Doc?
>
> Clif, Vancouver, B.C. Canada.
>
> Hutcheson
>
> >
> > OOHHH...I'm not mentioning any names, but if the
> shoe
> > fits, you know the rest. Doc
> > --- DJ Vegh wrote:> >
> > > hmmm... kinda like the Canadian Gov't does?!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
_______________________________
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: serious smoke advice |
In a message dated 10/4/04 9:05:51 PM Central Daylight Time,
wacopitts(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< I am going up to Kansas tomorrow morning
to visit with Ken Perkins and have a look at his Model
A powered Piet. >>
Hey Doc,
If you're flying a fast plane up there, or whatever, maybe you would like to
make a stop in Wichita KS - Cook Airfield, for a lookover my plane. I have
over 300 detail pictures of the construction.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Wichita KS
Cook Airfield (K50)
________________________________________________________________________________
This smoke system seems like a lot of fun. How does it work? Is it easy to
build and fit one? Or do you just buy one to bolt on?
regards
Tug
Tug,
My smoke system consists of an after-market windshield washer pump and tank,
plumbing to each exhaust pipe, and wiring to the switch on the power lever. I
isolated / mounted the tank on the upper left motor mount tubing, with a
couple layers of rubber strap. I routed the clear tubing to a Tee fitting secured
in rubber, to the engine mount, then used 1/8" brass tubing to each of the
fittings in the exhaust pipes. I laid out the route of the tubing, marked the
pipes, and removed both exhaust pipes. I cut a 1/8" pipe coupler in half,
radiused each half to the radius of the pipe, and oxy / accy welded them to the
aft pipe of each side. After welded, I drilled one #60 hole through the exhaust
pipes. I placed these holes toward the bottom edge of the fittings,
theorizing that if oil would lay in there it would gum up. The switch is a push
on /
push off button, that is mounted right to the throttle handle. This location
allows me to work the smoke without taking my hand off the throttle. I
originally thought it would only smoke good at full power, but came to find I don't
need much over 1/4 throttle to Smoke 'Em Up !! I can smoke 'em while taxiing,
without any problem !! My exhaust pipes point down and away from the
fuselage, and even when all the oil doesn't vaporize, the fuselage hardly gets
anything on it.
I have a couple of squawks on the system, that I have taken care of.
1.) I mounted the tank at about the same level as the fittings on the
exhaust pipes, and it always dribbles out the pipes, with a little bit of smoke
as a
result. Over a period of a couple of hours, it will drain the tank, but I
usually 'Smoke em up' before that happens.
2.) When I ran the tank empty, and refill it, the pump would cavitate
because of the way the line ran from the bottom of the tank to the pump, and I
would always have to prime the pump, by blowing in the top of the tank. I got
some strange looks from folks, while I performed this operation !!
3.) The tank was too small. It only was big enough to do about 3 smoke
runs. I would like to put about a 5 gallon bucket up there on the firewall, but
I don't have enough room !!
4.) I had to remove the top cowling to re-fill the tank.
I'm building a new tank out of fiberglass / West System resin, with a fill
tube out to the right side of the cowling. I'll mount it lower on the
firewall. This will take care of all the squawks.
5.) I now have been using the new smoke tank, but I have a small leak in
the tank. I used West Systems resin for the fiberglass tank, and evidently I
didn't get the seam sealed up good enough. I've never had that problem when I
used polyester resin, but it kicks very quickly. The West System gives some
time, but it is also quite a bit more expensive. After the warnings about the
stuff catching on fire, I'll be repairing the tank before my next flight.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: serious smoke advice (now Tomahawk) |
The first airplane I purchased was a Tomahawk, back in the 1980s. I loved
that plane. Although I learned to fly in a Twin Bonanza Excalibur, the Tomahawk
was a darned good trainer. If you stalled the Tramahawk, and went into a spin
(many folks did, and sometimes instructors and their students didn't recover
and a few augured in.) You had to be on your toes, literally and figuratively.
It helped if you had spin training in something tame like an Aerobat 152, and
then tried spinning a Tramahawk when you had developed some kind of skill.
Also, some folks got buggered in Tramahawks because the tail shook like hell
during the stall and the break could happen very suddenly, pealing off to the
left or right very fast. When the tail shuddered, it sounded like the thing
was breaking up in mid-air and Cessna pilots not accustomed to this often would
land, wipe their be-hinds and go back to their predictable and docile 152s or
172s.
For those who originally trained in a forgiving Cessna or other old-lady
airplanes, sure, they lament the Tomahawk, but in fact it's like guys who drink
Light Beer or Real Beer, depends on what your taste is. The Cessna is less
filling, but the Tramahawk is better tasting. Now, let's talk about ribbon cutting,
upside down in a Decathalon... that's a serious pucker factor I won't soon
forget, not to mention sore shoulders in a harness... Makes the stall in a
Tramahawk look very tame.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Scimitar Prop |
Gang, What are you guys using for leading edge protection on your carved
props.?
Ken Conrad, in sunny Iowa with the beans in the bin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: serious smoke advice |
Thanks Chuck, but I went the most discusting way a
human can travel...by ground. I flew an antique
Mustang up there and back. Made it a one-day, round
trip too. Would have loved to had seen your plane
though. Maybe at Broadhead. I plan to go next year.
I went up to check out Ken's engine and was impressed.
I think I am going to have one of those Henry Ford
products! I sure would like to see some of your
construction pics though. Could you email me a few?
Thanks.
Doc
--- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/4/04 9:05:51 PM Central
> Daylight Time,
> wacopitts(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> << I am going up to Kansas tomorrow morning
> to visit with Ken Perkins and have a look at his
> Model
> A powered Piet. >>
>
> Hey Doc,
> If you're flying a fast plane up there, or whatever,
> maybe you would like to
> make a stop in Wichita KS - Cook Airfield, for a
> lookover my plane. I have
> over 300 detail pictures of the construction.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
> Wichita KS
> Cook Airfield (K50)
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: serious smoke advice (now Tomahawk) |
Tell me about the ribon cut in a Decathalon, I'd like
to hear that. It was the ribon cut in the Pitts that
led my family to FORCE me out of the airshow business.
But I was doing it a 25 feet inverted, kinda "woose"
for serious airshow pilots...
Doc
--- N321TX(at)wmconnect.com wrote:
> The first airplane I purchased was a Tomahawk, back
> in the 1980s. I loved
> that plane. Although I learned to fly in a Twin
> Bonanza Excalibur, the Tomahawk
> was a darned good trainer. If you stalled the
> Tramahawk, and went into a spin
> (many folks did, and sometimes instructors and their
> students didn't recover
> and a few augured in.) You had to be on your toes,
> literally and figuratively.
> It helped if you had spin training in something tame
> like an Aerobat 152, and
> then tried spinning a Tramahawk when you had
> developed some kind of skill.
>
> Also, some folks got buggered in Tramahawks because
> the tail shook like hell
> during the stall and the break could happen very
> suddenly, pealing off to the
> left or right very fast. When the tail shuddered, it
> sounded like the thing
> was breaking up in mid-air and Cessna pilots not
> accustomed to this often would
> land, wipe their be-hinds and go back to their
> predictable and docile 152s or
> 172s.
>
> For those who originally trained in a forgiving
> Cessna or other old-lady
> airplanes, sure, they lament the Tomahawk, but in
> fact it's like guys who drink
> Light Beer or Real Beer, depends on what your taste
> is. The Cessna is less
> filling, but the Tramahawk is better tasting. Now,
> let's talk about ribbon cutting,
> upside down in a Decathalon... that's a serious
> pucker factor I won't soon
> forget, not to mention sore shoulders in a
> harness... Makes the stall in a
> Tramahawk look very tame.
>
> S.B.
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: serious smoke advice |
I took some photos of Ken's plane (see attachments).
I really like that Ford installation.
Doc
--- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/4/04 9:05:51 PM Central
> Daylight Time,
> wacopitts(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> << I am going up to Kansas tomorrow morning
> to visit with Ken Perkins and have a look at his
> Model
> A powered Piet. >>
>
> Hey Doc,
> If you're flying a fast plane up there, or whatever,
> maybe you would like to
> make a stop in Wichita KS - Cook Airfield, for a
> lookover my plane. I have
> over 300 detail pictures of the construction.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
> Wichita KS
> Cook Airfield (K50)
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
_______________________________
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Scimitar Prop |
In a message dated 10/5/04 7:54:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
Wizzard187(at)aol.com writes:
<< Gang, What are you guys using for leading edge protection on your carved
props.?
Ken Conrad, in sunny Iowa with the beans in the bin >>
Ken,
After all the carving, sanding, balancing and re-checking blade track and
blade angle at each station, I use Kevlar tipping on the leading edge, and put
fiberglass cloth on the entire blade. I could go into more detail of this
process, if you like.
Chuck G.
Good to hear the beans are in...that leaves the fields open for a possible
off field landing !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: serious smoke advice |
In a message dated 10/5/04 9:30:55 PM Central Daylight Time,
wacopitts(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< I sure would like to see some of your
construction pics though. Could you email me a few? >>
Doc,
What portion of the construction would you like to see ? I got most of them
scanned in, before my scanner started going 'grrwl click click click'. Now I
have a digital camara. I really need to put up a web site. I could e-mail
them direct to you.
Chuck G.
Got my first taste of aerobatics at Brodhead this year...No, not in the Piet.
Banjo Bob took me up in his Starduster Two. WAY COOL !!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Scimitar Prop |
Chuck, need to talk to you about carving a prop
sometime, I'm planning to carve mine and need some
info. Thanks.
Doc
--- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/5/04 7:54:16 PM Central
> Daylight Time,
> Wizzard187(at)aol.com writes:
>
> << Gang, What are you guys using for leading edge
> protection on your carved
> props.?
> Ken Conrad, in sunny Iowa with the beans in the bin
> >>
>
> Ken,
> After all the carving, sanding, balancing and
> re-checking blade track and
> blade angle at each station, I use Kevlar tipping on
> the leading edge, and put
> fiberglass cloth on the entire blade. I could go
> into more detail of this
> process, if you like.
>
> Chuck G.
> Good to hear the beans are in...that leaves the
> fields open for a possible
> off field landing !!
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
_______________________________
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: serious smoke advice |
Acro is great isn't it? We'll just have to see what a
little ole' Piet can do with a Ford engine someday...
I am working on the fusleage right now, so any pics
you could lend would be of help. My email is
wacopitts(at)yahoo.com. I would love to see them.
Thanks.
Doc
--- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/5/04 9:30:55 PM Central
> Daylight Time,
> wacopitts(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> << I sure would like to see some of your
> construction pics though. Could you email me a
> few? >>
>
> Doc,
> What portion of the construction would you like to
> see ? I got most of them
> scanned in, before my scanner started going 'grrwl
> click click click'. Now I
> have a digital camara. I really need to put up a
> web site. I could e-mail
> them direct to you.
>
> Chuck G.
> Got my first taste of aerobatics at Brodhead this
> year...No, not in the Piet.
> Banjo Bob took me up in his Starduster Two. WAY
> COOL !!!
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
_______________________________
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
"Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft"
| Subject: | N74DV's first passenger |
So........ today was an awesome day. I finally got the engine running
smoothly on the airframe. Firewall forward is complete. Fired it up an all
was well. Oil pressure was good, oil temps kept cool. CHT's within
limits....
so.. here I have this 95% complete fuselage with engine running... brakes
work, tail wheel hooked up.. how could I resist some taxi tests. I employ
my neighbor (who happens to be an airline pilot) to wach for cars and
spectators on my street. I then pull it out on the street and start some
taxing.... did about 4 runs up and down and slow speed, maybe 8-10 mph.
Then the neighbor kid comes out... I think he's about 9yrs old... he had a
smile from ear to ear just watching. I shutdown and yell over at him
"Brady.... go ask your mom if it's ok if you take a taxi ride in the
Aircamper" he darts inside like a lightning bolt. 10 seconds later he
comes outside... " She's says I can go! yeeeehawww!" I help him into the
front seat, buckle him in with the 1969 Brantly B-2 Helicopter seat belts I
have installed. I tell him he can move the stick all he wants but don't
play with the throttle lever.
We then commence to driving up and down the street about 4 times. he loved
it... me too! Then all the sudden the fun came to a stop when I look
behind me to see a Mesa Police Dept. car behind me with it's lights on
PULLING ME OVER!!! it was hilarious! I shutdown and hop out. the cop is
the nicest guy and he's laughing saying he's never pulled a plane over. He
looks the plane over asks the typical questions and then politely tells me I
need to put the "toy" away cause I'm on a city road and my plane is not
exactly licensed to drive on it. I tell him thanks and I push it into the
garage.
What a hoot! My first passenger ride and a cop pulls me over.... how
funny!
Today N74DV was loaded with fuel and physically moved 2 souls under it's own
power.... I'm stoked!!!
DJ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
_
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N74DV's first passenger |
Hilarious story DJ.
You got a Corvair engine in it right? Should have told
him it was a rebodied Corvair and the registration blew
away when you started it up...
Stacy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N74DV's first passenger |
Loved the story DJ.
Doc
--- DJ Vegh wrote:
>
>
> So........ today was an awesome day. I finally got
> the engine running
> smoothly on the airframe. Firewall forward is
> complete. Fired it up an all
> was well. Oil pressure was good, oil temps kept
> cool. CHT's within
> limits....
>
> so.. here I have this 95% complete fuselage with
> engine running... brakes
> work, tail wheel hooked up.. how could I resist some
> taxi tests. I employ
> my neighbor (who happens to be an airline pilot) to
> wach for cars and
> spectators on my street. I then pull it out on the
> street and start some
> taxing.... did about 4 runs up and down and slow
> speed, maybe 8-10 mph.
>
> Then the neighbor kid comes out... I think he's
> about 9yrs old... he had a
> smile from ear to ear just watching. I shutdown
> and yell over at him
> "Brady.... go ask your mom if it's ok if you take a
> taxi ride in the
> Aircamper" he darts inside like a lightning bolt.
> 10 seconds later he
> comes outside... " She's says I can go!
> yeeeehawww!" I help him into the
> front seat, buckle him in with the 1969 Brantly B-2
> Helicopter seat belts I
> have installed. I tell him he can move the stick
> all he wants but don't
> play with the throttle lever.
>
> We then commence to driving up and down the street
> about 4 times. he loved
> it... me too! Then all the sudden the fun came
> to a stop when I look
> behind me to see a Mesa Police Dept. car behind me
> with it's lights on
> PULLING ME OVER!!! it was hilarious! I shutdown
> and hop out. the cop is
> the nicest guy and he's laughing saying he's never
> pulled a plane over. He
> looks the plane over asks the typical questions and
> then politely tells me I
> need to put the "toy" away cause I'm on a city road
> and my plane is not
> exactly licensed to drive on it. I tell him thanks
> and I push it into the
> garage.
>
> What a hoot! My first passenger ride and a cop
> pulls me over.... how
> funny!
>
> Today N74DV was loaded with fuel and physically
> moved 2 souls under it's own
> power.... I'm stoked!!!
>
> DJ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
> _
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: serious smoke advice (now Tomahawk) |
A very dear friend of mine by the name of Bob Sears introduced me to inverted
flight in a Decathalon. Bob was a commercial pilot and CFII and the
adventurer I took my flights into Mexico and Central America. (Plenty of stories
for
these trips, no time to explain.)
Bob used to fly in various air shows in the late 80s and early 90s and
actually flew in a few events that some really topnotch performers appeared in.
The
first show I went to with Bob was in Lakeland, Florida, where Bob flew a Super
Viking as the Avenger.
He developed a routine especially for kids and was actually dressed up like a
super-hero. After his routine in the Super Viking, he would hand out pictures
and autograph them for hundreds and hundreds of kids. He introduced me to a
handful of airshow pilots and among the most impressive (personally) was Patty
Wagstaff and her husband.
Bob had four airplanes he flew in different airshows, to include a 300 HP
Pitts Special. I never saw anyone do in a Pitts, what Bob did and he was a legend
at the ABQ Balloon Festival when he flew is Pitts upside down in a drainage
canal. From the audience perspective, it was quite alarming to see him do this
because he appeared to look like he flew into the ground. The audience could
not see the canal and it was startling to see him disappear into the canal.
He also flew his Pitts upside down through a WWll hanger near Monahans, TX.
The hanger was very large and part of a training base for B-17s. It was
abandoned and simply out in the country as a vacant building. I'll try and find
a
copy of Bob flying upside down through the hanger so I can scan it and send it
out on e-mail.
The least impressive upside down flying was done in his Decathalon and he
practiced his routine at his (Sears, DFW Sectional) ranch, not too far from my
place, (5TA6, Knot-2-Shabby, San Antonio Sectional). I proudly can say I never
blew chow on the three occasions I did with him in his Decathalon when he was
practicing out here in the boon docks, but it hurt like the devil. The harness
really digs in to the shoulders (at least for me, when holding a camcorder).
Wanna see my video from inside the Decathalon, upside down? I still have a copy
around here somewhere. He clipped ribbons on poles as he flew upside down
about 25 feet off the ground.
Bob also had a Yak and he was working on a routine for that, but be became
ill from lymphoma and he died in 1995. I think had Bob not become ill, he would
have made the airshow circuit in a very big way. His flying skills were
extraordinary and he made friends where ever he went. He really made an impression
with kids as the Avenger in his Super Viking and one interesting note for
Pietenpol folks... Bob especially liked the Super Viking for aerobatics because
it
was made out of wood and gave him the strength he needed for the budget he had
in finding an airplane that looked cool for kids. A black airplane with red
and yellow lightning bolts.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Where do you get Kevlar for the LE? I've carved mine and been flying it
with just varnish till I'm sure I like what I've got. Now that I do,
I'm ready to protect the le and rebalance.
Thanks,
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Scimitar Prop
In a message dated 10/5/04 7:54:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
Wizzard187(at)aol.com writes:
<< Gang, What are you guys using for leading edge protection on your
carved
props.?
Ken Conrad, in sunny Iowa with the beans in the bin >>
Ken,
After all the carving, sanding, balancing and re-checking blade track
and
blade angle at each station, I use Kevlar tipping on the leading edge,
and put
fiberglass cloth on the entire blade. I could go into more detail of
this
process, if you like.
Chuck G.
Good to hear the beans are in...that leaves the fields open for a
possible
off field landing !!
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | pull er over and shut down that propellor, sir |
DJ-- GREAT story !
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | N74DV's first passenger |
I'm waiting for this to turn up on "The World's Most Exciting Police
Chases". I bet that's cop is at the donut shop right now saying "...hey
guys, guess what I just pulled over - no, really!"
Great story.
>From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: , "Corvair engines for homebuilt
>aircraft"
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: N74DV's first passenger
>Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 21:44:13 -0700
>
>
>So........ today was an awesome day. I finally got the engine running
>smoothly on the airframe. Firewall forward is complete. Fired it up an all
>was well. Oil pressure was good, oil temps kept cool. CHT's within
>limits....
>
>so.. here I have this 95% complete fuselage with engine running... brakes
>work, tail wheel hooked up.. how could I resist some taxi tests. I employ
>my neighbor (who happens to be an airline pilot) to wach for cars and
>spectators on my street. I then pull it out on the street and start some
>taxing.... did about 4 runs up and down and slow speed, maybe 8-10 mph.
>
>Then the neighbor kid comes out... I think he's about 9yrs old... he had a
>smile from ear to ear just watching. I shutdown and yell over at him
>"Brady.... go ask your mom if it's ok if you take a taxi ride in the
>Aircamper" he darts inside like a lightning bolt. 10 seconds later he
>comes outside... " She's says I can go! yeeeehawww!" I help him into the
>front seat, buckle him in with the 1969 Brantly B-2 Helicopter seat belts I
>have installed. I tell him he can move the stick all he wants but don't
>play with the throttle lever.
>
>We then commence to driving up and down the street about 4 times. he loved
>it... me too! Then all the sudden the fun came to a stop when I look
>behind me to see a Mesa Police Dept. car behind me with it's lights on
>PULLING ME OVER!!! it was hilarious! I shutdown and hop out. the cop is
>the nicest guy and he's laughing saying he's never pulled a plane over. He
>looks the plane over asks the typical questions and then politely tells me
>I
>need to put the "toy" away cause I'm on a city road and my plane is not
>exactly licensed to drive on it. I tell him thanks and I push it into the
>garage.
>
>What a hoot! My first passenger ride and a cop pulls me over.... how
>funny!
>
>Today N74DV was loaded with fuel and physically moved 2 souls under it's
>own
>power.... I'm stoked!!!
>
>DJ
>www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>_
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Prop - Kevlar Tipping and Fiberglass Wrap |
In a message dated 10/6/04 6:58:47 AM Central Daylight Time, steve(at)byu.edu
writes:
<< Where do you get Kevlar for the LE? I've carved mine and been flying it
with just varnish till I'm sure I like what I've got. Now that I do,
I'm ready to protect the le and rebalance. >>
Steve and all,
This is another one of my typically long posts, so fair warning !!
Kevlar is the most abrasion resistant of the composite materials...that's
why bullet proof vests are made from it. Using Kevlar for the leading edge
was my idea. I purchased the unidirectional Kevlar from AS&S. It comes 12"
wide, buy it by the foot, but you need a 4 foot piece. It has all single flat
strands of Kevlar, held together with little fiberglass strands every couple of
inches. It is some tough stuff, that will quickly dull a pair of good
scissors if you cut a lot of it.
After all the carving is done, and the prop is balanced, the wood must be
cleaned thoroughly to remove all dust and skin oil, with alcohol, and allow
an extended period of time for all the alcohol to evaporate. Don't touch the
wood with bare hands after that. Measure the length on the blade you need to
cover the outer 2/3 length of the blades leading edge, and up half way around
the rounded tip. The length of Kevlar must be identical for both blades, for
balance reasons. Wearing surgical gloves, lay out a 3/4" width of Kevlar for
each blade, on a clean flat surface, and cut to length. It's kind of difficult
to get the Kevlar to stay where you put it, because it always wants to curl
up, and go crooked. I use scotch tape about ever couple of inches to make it
obey. Leaving the tape on the Kevlar strands helps control the fibers, as well
as allowing you to stow the piece of material while you apply the Polyester
Resin to the area on the leading edge of the blade. Kevlar does not readily
soak up the resin, so you have to use plenty of resin, and kind of work it in
after the Kevlar is applied to the resin. The scotch tape now holds the Kevlar
fibers stay where you put them, as long as there is no resin where the tape
sticks to the wood. Patience is order of the day, here. You can only do one
blade at a time, with the prop secure and the leading edge you are working on
pointing up. Mask off each face of the prop, leaving at least 1/2" of wood
showing wider than the 3/4" wide Kevlar, to catch the inevitable runs in the resin.
Have everything ready, and a plan in your head, because when you add those
drops in the polyester resin and mix it up, you have but minutes to get the
Kevlar on and in place. I never use quite the full amount of hardener, to give
me a few extra precious minutes. If you don't get the 3/4" wide piece on
straight the first time, just wait till after it kicks, then pull the piece of
Kevlar back off and discard it, and start over. You'll have plenty of Kevlar
material for several re - do's.
Now you have the Kevlar on both blades, remove the scotch tape, sand and
feather the edge of the resin down, but don't get into the strands of Kevlar.
Don't use too coarse of sand paper, or scratches will show in the final
product. Make sure the prop is clean, and the work area is clean, and lay the
prop
down on the flange surface on top of a block, to space it up off the table,
to prepare for the lightweight fiberglass application. Cut four pieces of
fiberglass big enough to cover and overlap the leading and trailing edge, and the
tip. Lay newspaper under the blades to control the resin that is going to
drip off the blades. The fiberglass should go from the root, almost to the hub,
and extend the full length of the blade. This protects the wood, stabalizes
the moisture content in the wood, and keeps the Kevlar from coming off with
centrifugal force. Do one blade face at a time, and make sure you have 100%
saturation, and have a smooth surface. Once the fiberglass is saturated, the fine
cloth completely disappears, and the only thing you see is the yellowish
green color of the Kevlar strands. Again, speed is the key, once the hardener
is
added to the resin. Keep it straight by a dabbing action with a one inch
paint brush with half the bristles cut off. Use cheap bristle brushes, and
discard the brush after each application...it's just not worth trying to clean
it.
Allow the cloth to overlap the edges, and trim them off with a razor blade
after it sets. Finish sand to blend the edge of the fiberglass. Flip the prop
over and repeat the process. After the resin cures for a few days, give it a
beautiful glossy shine with a couple of coats of Ace Spar Varnish, gloss
#16375. Use the varnish step to attain a final balance, by adding an extra coat
to
the light blade.
To build the 3 props that I have done so far, my main instruction was
talking with experienced folks in the area of building propellers. I also used
the drawing of the prop for the Model A engine, that Orrin Hoopman drew up
dated 3-3-33. It is 76 X 48, but I think it certainly has too much pitch for the
ol' Model A engine. I think Ken Perkins runs a 76 X 42, which allows the
engine to run up to the rpm where there is quite a bit more power. My other main
instruction is referenced on this drawing to the book by Eric Clutton called
'Propeller Making for the Amature', available through the EAA. The Hoopman
drawing, and the book by Clutton, show how to use an X Y chart to determine the
blade angle at each 6" station. His book is the only reference I've ever
seen to a True Scimitar Prop design, which I plan on building. Although I still
haven't found anyone who actually built and tested one, and the theory sounds
good, the challenge would be in the design location of the mass.
With the blade installed and torqued, the blade track must be well within
1/8". I try to get mine within 1/16".
That's how I finish off my bug whackers !!
Questions ?
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
weekend weather is looking like the back side of a front - beautiful flying
weather !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N74DV's first passenger |
DJ,
Excellent story !! Ya gotta include that one in your Test Flight Log.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aileron rib build questions |
| From: | "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
Hi guys,
Only found two comments in the archives on this one, looking for some additional
comments. I'm building the 3 piece wing and currently building the ribs. I
want to plan correctly for the aileron ribs. It appears I will need to "modify"
6 ribs for each aileron. I plan to build the ribs the same as the rest and
make the cut =BC inch behind the last upright. Does this sound right? Also
should I build in place like Bernard recommends? Does that include doing the
trailing edge and aileron spars before making the cuts? And...on the non-aileron
ribs should I gusset the bottom of the last upright in front and behind the
upright? That's about clear as mud. I included a couple of pictures which
might help.
Thanks!
Jack Textor
Des Moines
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Prop - Kevlar Tipping and Fiberglass Wrap |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Thanks for the instructions! A great help, and once you have done it
what a conversation piece... yea it's a 1929 airplane with a hand
carved walnut and birch Kevlar reinforced propeller. Bullet proof prop.
:)
One more questions Chuck, did you carve out the wood for the leading
edge and fill in with the Kevlar or just lay it over the le blade as is?
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop - Kevlar Tipping and Fiberglass Wrap
In a message dated 10/6/04 6:58:47 AM Central Daylight Time,
steve(at)byu.edu
writes:
<< Where do you get Kevlar for the LE? I've carved mine and been flying
it
with just varnish till I'm sure I like what I've got. Now that I do,
I'm ready to protect the le and rebalance. >>
Steve and all,
This is another one of my typically long posts, so fair warning !!
Kevlar is the most abrasion resistant of the composite
materials...that's
why bullet proof vests are made from it. Using Kevlar for the leading
edge
was my idea. I purchased the unidirectional Kevlar from AS&S. It comes
12"
wide, buy it by the foot, but you need a 4 foot piece. It has all
single flat
strands of Kevlar, held together with little fiberglass strands every
couple of
inches. It is some tough stuff, that will quickly dull a pair of good
scissors if you cut a lot of it.
After all the carving is done, and the prop is balanced, the wood
must be
cleaned thoroughly to remove all dust and skin oil, with alcohol, and
allow
an extended period of time for all the alcohol to evaporate. Don't
touch the
wood with bare hands after that. Measure the length on the blade you
need to
cover the outer 2/3 length of the blades leading edge, and up half way
around
the rounded tip. The length of Kevlar must be identical for both blades,
for
balance reasons. Wearing surgical gloves, lay out a 3/4" width of
Kevlar for
each blade, on a clean flat surface, and cut to length. It's kind of
difficult
to get the Kevlar to stay where you put it, because it always wants to
curl
up, and go crooked. I use scotch tape about ever couple of inches to
make it
obey. Leaving the tape on the Kevlar strands helps control the fibers,
as well
as allowing you to stow the piece of material while you apply the
Polyester
Resin to the area on the leading edge of the blade. Kevlar does not
readily
soak up the resin, so you have to use plenty of resin, and kind of work
it in
after the Kevlar is applied to the resin. The scotch tape now holds the
Kevlar
fibers stay where you put them, as long as there is no resin where the
tape
sticks to the wood. Patience is order of the day, here. You can only
do one
blade at a time, with the prop secure and the leading edge you are
working on
pointing up. Mask off each face of the prop, leaving at least 1/2" of
wood
showing wider than the 3/4" wide Kevlar, to catch the inevitable runs in
the resin.
Have everything ready, and a plan in your head, because when you add
those
drops in the polyester resin and mix it up, you have but minutes to get
the
Kevlar on and in place. I never use quite the full amount of hardener,
to give
me a few extra precious minutes. If you don't get the 3/4" wide piece
on
straight the first time, just wait till after it kicks, then pull the
piece of
Kevlar back off and discard it, and start over. You'll have plenty of
Kevlar
material for several re - do's.
Now you have the Kevlar on both blades, remove the scotch tape, sand
and
feather the edge of the resin down, but don't get into the strands of
Kevlar.
Don't use too coarse of sand paper, or scratches will show in the final
product. Make sure the prop is clean, and the work area is clean, and
lay the prop
down on the flange surface on top of a block, to space it up off the
September 23, 2004 - October 06, 2004
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ec