Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ed

October 06, 2004 - November 01, 2004



      table, 
      to prepare for the lightweight fiberglass application.  Cut four pieces
      of 
      fiberglass big enough to cover and overlap the leading and trailing
      edge, and the 
      tip.  Lay newspaper under the blades to control the resin that is going
      to 
      drip off the blades.  The fiberglass should go from the root, almost to
      the hub, 
      and extend the full length of the blade.  This protects the wood,
      stabalizes 
      the moisture content in the wood, and keeps the Kevlar from coming off
      with 
      centrifugal force.  Do one blade face at a time, and make sure you have
      100% 
      saturation, and have a smooth surface.  Once the fiberglass is
      saturated, the fine 
      cloth completely disappears, and the only thing you see is the yellowish
      
      green color of the Kevlar strands.  Again, speed is the key, once the
      hardener is 
      added to the resin.  Keep it straight by a dabbing action with a one
      inch 
      paint brush with half the bristles cut off.  Use cheap bristle brushes,
      and 
      discard the brush after each application...it's just not worth trying to
      clean it.  
      Allow the cloth to overlap the edges, and trim them off with a razor
      blade 
      after it sets.  Finish sand to blend the edge of the fiberglass.  Flip
      the prop 
      over and repeat the process.  After the resin cures for a few days, give
      it a 
      beautiful glossy shine with a couple of coats of Ace Spar Varnish, gloss
      
      #16375.  Use the varnish step to attain a final balance, by adding an
      extra coat to 
      the light blade.
          To build the 3 props that I have done so far, my main instruction
      was 
      talking with experienced folks in the area of building propellers.  I
      also used 
      the drawing of the prop for the Model A engine, that Orrin Hoopman drew
      up 
      dated 3-3-33.  It is 76 X 48, but I think it certainly has too much
      pitch for the 
      ol' Model A engine.  I think Ken Perkins runs a 76 X 42, which allows
      the 
      engine to run up to the rpm where there is quite a bit more power.  My
      other main 
      instruction is referenced on this drawing to the book by Eric Clutton
      called 
      'Propeller Making for the Amature', available through the EAA.  The
      Hoopman 
      drawing, and the book by Clutton, show how to use an X  Y  chart to
      determine the 
      blade angle at each 6" station.  His book is the only reference I've
      ever 
      seen to a True Scimitar Prop design, which I plan on building.  Although
      I still 
      haven't found anyone who actually built and tested one, and the theory
      sounds 
      good, the challenge would be in the design location of the mass.  
          With the blade installed and torqued, the blade track must be well
      within 
      1/8".  I try to get mine within 1/16".
          That's how I finish off my bug whackers !!
          Questions ?
      
      Chuck Gantzer
      NX770CG
      weekend weather is looking like the back side of a front - beautiful
      flying 
      weather !!
      
      
      ==
      ==
      ==
      ==
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: serious smoke advice (now Tomahawk)
I am so sad to hear about Bob. I didn't know of his illness. I had not met him personally, but I knew of him through ICAS (International Council Of Airshows) the trade organization for airshows. I have always been impressed with his flying. He certainly ranks up there with the great preformers and not doubt, had he lived, could have been one of the greatest. My personal experiences were much less dramatic in the airshow business. I was always the generic act :). I only flew airshows for five years and it takes that long or longer to build up a reputation. I avg. around 12 shows per year. I flew under the trade name of "Shooting Star Airshows." I had three people in my troop; a long dear friend of mine wiith whom I served in police work with a number of years ago who acted as my announcer and his wife the lovely Jeanne who acted as manager. I really miss the airshow business and had a great time while flying the circuit. You meet so many interesting people at airshows. I have flown on the same stage with the former "Eagles" in one of my first airshows. Those were a great bunch of guys. I have flown with Bobby Yonkin, Gene Littlefield, Jan Jones and a number of others. I sure miss the circuit and miss the people I had once known. Again, I am sadened to hear of Bob Sears. The aviation world sure took a hit when Bob passed away. Thanks for sharing your story with me. I will try to drag up an old photo of my airshow days and try to get my scanner hooked up and I will send a pic if you would like to see it. Doc --- N321TX(at)wmconnect.com wrote: > A very dear friend of mine by the name of Bob Sears > introduced me to inverted > flight in a Decathalon. Bob was a commercial pilot > and CFII and the > adventurer I took my flights into Mexico and Central > America. (Plenty of stories for > these trips, no time to explain.) > > Bob used to fly in various air shows in the late 80s > and early 90s and > actually flew in a few events that some really > topnotch performers appeared in. The > first show I went to with Bob was in Lakeland, > Florida, where Bob flew a Super > Viking as the Avenger. > He developed a routine especially for kids and was > actually dressed up like a > super-hero. After his routine in the Super Viking, > he would hand out pictures > and autograph them for hundreds and hundreds of > kids. He introduced me to a > handful of airshow pilots and among the most > impressive (personally) was Patty > Wagstaff and her husband. > > Bob had four airplanes he flew in different > airshows, to include a 300 HP > Pitts Special. I never saw anyone do in a Pitts, > what Bob did and he was a legend > at the ABQ Balloon Festival when he flew is Pitts > upside down in a drainage > canal. From the audience perspective, it was quite > alarming to see him do this > because he appeared to look like he flew into the > ground. The audience could > not see the canal and it was startling to see him > disappear into the canal. > > He also flew his Pitts upside down through a WWll > hanger near Monahans, TX. > The hanger was very large and part of a training > base for B-17s. It was > abandoned and simply out in the country as a vacant > building. I'll try and find a > copy of Bob flying upside down through the hanger so > I can scan it and send it > out on e-mail. > > The least impressive upside down flying was done in > his Decathalon and he > practiced his routine at his (Sears, DFW Sectional) > ranch, not too far from my > place, (5TA6, Knot-2-Shabby, San Antonio Sectional). > I proudly can say I never > blew chow on the three occasions I did with him in > his Decathalon when he was > practicing out here in the boon docks, but it hurt > like the devil. The harness > really digs in to the shoulders (at least for me, > when holding a camcorder). > Wanna see my video from inside the Decathalon, > upside down? I still have a copy > around here somewhere. He clipped ribbons on poles > as he flew upside down > about 25 feet off the ground. > > Bob also had a Yak and he was working on a routine > for that, but be became > ill from lymphoma and he died in 1995. I think had > Bob not become ill, he would > have made the airshow circuit in a very big way. His > flying skills were > extraordinary and he made friends where ever he > went. He really made an impression > with kids as the Avenger in his Super Viking and one > interesting note for > Pietenpol folks... Bob especially liked the Super > Viking for aerobatics because it > was made out of wood and gave him the strength he > needed for the budget he had > in finding an airplane that looked cool for kids. A > black airplane with red > and yellow lightning bolts. > > S.B. > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2004
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Cub Brake Master Cyl
Dear Group, Has anyone used J3 Cub master cylinders on their Piet? If so....do you have pictures of them installed? I finally came up with a RH master cylinder and so I now have a complete J3 cub brake system. I am going to look tonight and see if it looks like I'll have room to locate them under the front seat. I have rudder pedals in lieu of the rudder bar. -- Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aileron rib build questions
Date: Oct 06, 2004
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Build the entire aileron including from trailing edge forward, Trailing edge, aileron spar, aileron leading edge and trailing edge aileron pocket "spar" as per plan before cutting the ribs that make it part of the wing. You can eve install the 1/4x1/4" fabric spacers before cutting out the aileron. This will make it nearly impossible for a bad fit. I used a piano hinge instead of the barn door hinges, just to seal the aileron gap. Steve e ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Textor, Jack Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron rib build questions Hi guys, Only found two comments in the archives on this one, looking for some additional comments. I'm building the 3 piece wing and currently building the ribs. I want to plan correctly for the aileron ribs. It appears I will need to "modify" 6 ribs for each aileron. I plan to build the ribs the same as the rest and make the cut =BC inch behind the last upright. Does this sound right? Also should I build in place like Bernard recommends? Does that include doing the trailing edge and aileron spars before making the cuts? And...on the non-aileron ribs should I gusset the bottom of the last upright in front and behind the upright? That's about clear as mud. I included a couple of pictures which might help. Thanks! Jack Textor Des Moines ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Oct 06, 2004
Sears
Subject: Re: serious smoke advice (now Tomahawk) now Bob Sears
One last thing I forgot to mention about Bob Sears. His dad was a P-51 fighter pilot during WWll. Bob's dad had several kills and he was the only P-51 pilot that actually shot down a German airplane, while the P-51 was still on the ground. Story goes that the airbase was being attacked by Germans and Bob's dad jumped in his parked P-51, fired it up and while taxing out to the runway, saw a German airplane flying low straight at him. Mr. Sears fired his guns and got the SOB that was trying to shoot him. Makes me feel like a woosie, having been a guy whose first airplane was a Tomahawk. (But then again I did fly right seat in a B-52 once.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Oct 06, 2004
Subject: Re: N74DV's first passenger
I've driven down DJs street a couple of times. That street ain't real wide! Must have been a hoot to see DJ "driving" around on his block and I suspect the cop could not have written a "speeding" ticket for a highly modified Corvair without a tag. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
"Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft"
Subject: Re: N74DV's first passenger
Date: Oct 06, 2004
If he complained that you were weaving,,,Just tell him " That's the only way to see around the nose of a taildragger while taxiing , Sir" walt evans NX140DL great story!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: N74DV's first passenger > > > DJ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > _ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2004
From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: N74DV's first passenger
DJ got something else out of that ride...besides a lot of laughs. Did you pick up on the extrodinarl level of confidence and trust in DJ that the child's mother demonstrated?...Carl Vought > > > > I've driven down DJs street a couple of times. That street ain't real wide! > Must have been a hoot to see DJ "driving" around on his block and I suspect > the cop could not have written a "speeding" ticket for a highly modified Corvair > without a tag. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: First FLight of NX899JP
Date: Oct 06, 2004
Another Pietenpol has been added to the sky. NX899JP, "IcarusPlummet", flew for the first time this morning. Everything went fine - plane flew hands off with no problems noted. Engine ran strong and all in all it flew just like a Pietenpol should. I'll try to post some pictures later. Many thanks to the many contributors to this list who have given me advice, help and encouragement over the years I've worked on this airplane. I'll see y'all at Brodhead next July (if I can figure out how to get it over the Appalachians). Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: First FLight of NX899JP
Congratulations Jack! The first flight in any airplane, and even more so in one that you built, has to be one of the greatest experiences in life. Glad all went well and see you at Broadhead. Doc --- Jack Phillips wrote: > Phillips" > > > Another Pietenpol has been added to the sky. > NX899JP, "IcarusPlummet", flew > for the first time this morning. Everything went > fine - plane flew hands > off with no problems noted. Engine ran strong and > all in all it flew just > like a Pietenpol should. I'll try to post some > pictures later. > > Many thanks to the many contributors to this list > who have given me advice, > help and encouragement over the years I've worked on > this airplane. I'll > see y'all at Brodhead next July (if I can figure out > how to get it over the > Appalachians). > > Jack Phillips > Raleigh, NC > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: First FLight of NX899JP
Date: Oct 06, 2004
Congratulations Jack...That is really awesome news...Glad to hear everything went well...See you at Brodhead...Ed G. >From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: First FLight of NX899JP >Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 19:11:35 -0400 > > > > >Another Pietenpol has been added to the sky. NX899JP, "IcarusPlummet", >flew >for the first time this morning. Everything went fine - plane flew hands >off with no problems noted. Engine ran strong and all in all it flew just >like a Pietenpol should. I'll try to post some pictures later. > >Many thanks to the many contributors to this list who have given me advice, >help and encouragement over the years I've worked on this airplane. I'll >see y'all at Brodhead next July (if I can figure out how to get it over the >Appalachians). > >Jack Phillips >Raleigh, NC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Sears
Subject: Re: serious smoke advice (now Tomahawk) now Bob Sears
Flying in a Tomahawk dosen't by any means make anyone a "woose." My first hours of instruction were in the docile Cessna 150. Airplanes just don't get any easier to fly than that little puppy. Bob's dad sounds like quite a guy. As was his son. Guess it ran in the family. Great story, should be made into a movie. Doc --- N321TX(at)wmconnect.com wrote: > One last thing I forgot to mention about Bob Sears. > His dad was a P-51 > fighter pilot during WWll. Bob's dad had several > kills and he was the only P-51 > pilot that actually shot down a German airplane, > while the P-51 was still on the > ground. Story goes that the airbase was being > attacked by Germans and Bob's dad > jumped in his parked P-51, fired it up and while > taxing out to the runway, > saw a German airplane flying low straight at him. > Mr. Sears fired his guns and > got the SOB that was trying to shoot him. > > Makes me feel like a woosie, having been a guy whose > first airplane was a > Tomahawk. (But then again I did fly right seat in a > B-52 once.) > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 06, 2004
Subject: Re: First FLight of NX899JP
CONGRATULATIONS JACK..... YEEEEEEE-HAAAAAWWWW!!!!!!!! Looking forward to the pictures and hope to dhead next year. Terry B. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Aileron rib build questions
Date: Oct 06, 2004
I completely agree with Steve E. I also used alominum piano hinge. Do it all before cutting. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 12:21 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron rib build questions Build the entire aileron including from trailing edge forward, Trailing edge, aileron spar, aileron leading edge and trailing edge aileron pocket "spar" as per plan before cutting the ribs that make it part of the wing. You can eve install the 1/4x1/4" fabric spacers before cutting out the aileron. This will make it nearly impossible for a bad fit. I used a piano hinge instead of the barn door hinges, just to seal the aileron gap. Steve e From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Textor, Jack Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 10:03 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron rib build questions Hi guys, Only found two comments in the archives on this one, looking for some additional comments. I'm building the 3 piece wing and currently building the ribs. I want to plan correctly for the aileron ribs. It appears I will need to "modify" 6 ribs for each aileron. I plan to build the ribs the same as the rest and make the cut =BC inch behind the last upright. Does this sound right? Also should I build in place like Bernard recommends? Does that include doing the trailing edge and aileron spars before making the cuts? And.on the non-aileron ribs should I gusset the bottom of the last upright in front and behind the upright? That's about clear as mud. I included a couple of pictures which might help. Thanks! Jack Textor Des Moines ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: First FLight of NX899JP
Date: Oct 06, 2004
Great going Jack. It's an amazing feeling the first time around and so far for me at least the feeling hasn't worn off. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: First FLight of NX899JP > > > > Another Pietenpol has been added to the sky. NX899JP, "IcarusPlummet", > flew > for the first time this morning. Everything went fine - plane flew hands > off with no problems noted. Engine ran strong and all in all it flew just > like a Pietenpol should. I'll try to post some pictures later. > > Many thanks to the many contributors to this list who have given me > advice, > help and encouragement over the years I've worked on this airplane. I'll > see y'all at Brodhead next July (if I can figure out how to get it over > the > Appalachians). > > Jack Phillips > Raleigh, NC > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 06, 2004
Subject: Re: Aileron rib build questions
Like Steve E. & Dick N. said, build the entire wing and aileron as an assembly, including pre fitting and drilling the holes for the aileron hinges. The wing should be complete, before you cut the ailerons loose. I used the plans type barn door hinges, but replaced the aluminum hinge pin, with AN hardware. The AN hardware I used was a screw with a long enough shank to go all the way through the hinge, cut the threads off, and drill a small hole for a cotter pin. Use a small flat washer under the cotter pin. I bridged the aileron gap with 3" fabric, before any paint was applied. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 06, 2004
Subject: Re: Prop - Kevlar Tipping and Fiberglass Wrap
In a message dated 10/6/04 11:09:04 AM Central Daylight Time, steve(at)byu.edu writes: << One more questions Chuck, did you carve out the wood for the leading edge and fill in with the Kevlar or just lay it over the le blade as is? >> Steve, The Kevlar is just a very thin one ply of fibers, and I just laid it right over the leading edge of the blade, and made it about 3/4" wide. I suppose you could sand away a very slight amount of wood, and make it back up with the Kevlar and Fiberglass. Lay it even on the front and back of the leading edge, where the blades get the most abuse. Blend it in before you put the fiberglass on the front and back, and the transition of the edges of the Kevlar blend right in, and you can't even feel the edges. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 06, 2004
Subject: Re: First FLight of NX899JP
A BIG Congratulations, Jack !! Certainly a milestone !! And I'm sure you'll find your way through the Appalachians to get to Brodhead. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chet's Mail" <chethartley1(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: First FLight of NX899JP
Date: Oct 06, 2004
Good job on building and your first flight. Chet Hartley > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: alexms1(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: First FLight of NX899JP
Date: Oct 07, 2004
Congratulations Jack. Send pictures soon. Alex Sloan -------------- Original message -------------- > > > Another Pietenpol has been added to the sky. NX899JP, "IcarusPlummet", flew > for the first time this morning. Everything went fine - plane flew hands > off with no problems noted. Engine ran strong and all in all it flew just > like a Pietenpol should. I'll try to post some pictures later. > > Many thanks to the many contributors to this list who have given me advice, > help and encouragement over the years I've worked on this airplane. I'll > see y'all at Brodhead next July (if I can figure out how to get it over the > Appalachians). > > Jack Phillips > Raleigh, NC > > > > > > > > > > > Congratulations Jack. Send pictures soon. Alex Sloan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: Ken's Piet was serious smoke advice
Date: Oct 06, 2004
And it flies nicely with a passenger!! ;-) (I got my ride in it this year at Brodhead -- total crew weight was at least 375# -- you decide how that was split up! ;-) Mike C. Pretty Prairie, KS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galen Hutcheson" <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: serious smoke advice > I took some photos of Ken's plane (see attachments). > I really like that Ford installation. > > Doc > --- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ken's Piet was serious smoke advice
HAHAHA...I'm not even going to try to figure it out. It is a neat little airplane and seemed to have a lot of thrust. The engine ran so smoothly too. I'm sure Ken can build me an engine just a good. My Piet may be a little heavier than his though. Try as I may, I still want to make it a little "G's" proof. But it probably won't be more than 5 or six pounds heavier (I am already on a diet :). Doc --- Michael Conkling wrote: > Conkling" > > And it flies nicely with a passenger!! ;-) (I got > my ride in it this year > at Brodhead -- total crew weight was at least 375# > -- you decide how that > was split up! ;-) > > Mike C. > Pretty Prairie, KS > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Galen Hutcheson" <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 10:23 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: serious smoke advice > > > > I took some photos of Ken's plane (see > attachments). > > I really like that Ford installation. > > > > Doc > > --- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: First FLight of NX899JP
Yeah, just follow the "Yellow Brick Road" or better yet a set of railroad tracks that point toward the direction you want to go. They always follow the lowest terrain. But look out for those tunnels or you could have a clipped winged Piet. :) Doc --- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > > A BIG Congratulations, Jack !! Certainly a > milestone !! > And I'm sure you'll find your way through the > Appalachians to get to Brodhead. > > Chuck G. > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 07, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: homebuilt power
<00b901c4aa7f$3ec14ac0$0100a8c0@Desktop> OK guys. I'm sorry, but I have to put this right,being a born Canuck and all. This right from the horses mouth. " We don't care what you do to yourself as long as you don't endanger anyone else." We've had the equivalent of your new LSA for many years and it didn't have to go through fifty million committees to get passed. Yes there was a lot of work and study by gov, industry and our representatives ( RAA ) but our gov was a lot more easily receptive to the concept. We have been completely self governing, including inspections, for many years, through the RAA, the Recreational Aviation Association, of which I am a member. Inspections have now been split off on it's own but still RAA members, not gov. Yes we have to have a license for all flying levels, including basic ultralight but again, that's so that all such pilots know the rules of the road and don't get themselves injested into some 737's left engine. That could happen very easily in the Vancouver airspace. So it's a good thing and not a big deal. We don't have medical requirements for drivers licences so a self declared medical with a signature from your GP is all that is required. Carrying passengers is what ups the anti to a regular medical. In fact, now that your LSA and LSP are now in force there is some concern here that our advanced ultralight rules may become more restrictive to align them with yours to facilitate cross border flying, sales, purchase, etc. Clif PS, Our third oldest registered homebuilt, a jodel, now up for sale, was registered in 1957. The first is a lot older and we had our share of Heaths and Piets in the 20's and 30's. Aint no forbidding here! :-) :-) > > hmmm... kinda like the Canadian Gov't does?! > > DJ > > ----- Original Message ----- > Can you even imagine how far > > aviation would have advanced had the governments of > > the world forbade the common man to experiment with > > airplanes. Probably we would all still be dreaming of > > flying. > > > > Doc ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 07, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: This one is really nice----First Flight of NX899JP
Our hats are off to you, Jack for sticking with it and going all the way with your new Pietenpol Air Camper. I've seen photos over the years you've sent me and look forward to seeing it in person. You'll no doubt attract more Pietenpol builders with your excellent workmanship and setting the quality standards where they should be. Way to go ! Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PIETLARS29(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Oct 07, 2004
Subject: Re: Fuel strainer mesh
Corky, How much do you need? I have some and can send you some; would a 3" or 4" square be OK? Lou Larsen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 07, 2004
Subject: Re: Fuel strainer mesh
Thanks Lou, But I received a 12x12 inch piece from McMaster which should last through all my needs. Probably will be able to send you or someone else some from leftover. Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 07, 2004
From: Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: First FLight of NX899JP
Jack, congrats!! What engine did you use? --- Galen Hutcheson wrote: > Hutcheson > > Yeah, just follow the "Yellow Brick Road" or better > yet a set of railroad tracks that point toward the > direction you want to go. They always follow the > lowest terrain. But look out for those tunnels or > you > could have a clipped winged Piet. :) > > Doc > --- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > > Rcaprd(at)aol.com > > > > A BIG Congratulations, Jack !! Certainly a > > milestone !! > > And I'm sure you'll find your way through the > > Appalachians to get to Brodhead. > > > > Chuck G. > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > ===== Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: homebuilt power
Date: Oct 07, 2004
I, too was confused by the comments about our (Canadian) regulations. Maybe you were thinking about the UK, DJ. (LMNOP) Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: homebuilt power OK guys. I'm sorry, but I have to put this right,being a born Canuck and all. This right from the horses mouth. " We don't care what you do to yourself as long as you don't endanger anyone else." We've had the equivalent of your new LSA for many years and it didn't have to go through fifty million committees to get passed. Yes there was a lot of work and study by gov, industry and our representatives ( RAA ) but our gov was a lot more easily receptive to the concept. We have been completely self governing, including inspections, for many years, through the RAA, the Recreational Aviation Association, of which I am a member. Inspections have now been split off on it's own but still RAA members, not gov. Yes we have to have a license for all flying levels, including basic ultralight but again, that's so that all such pilots know the rules of the road and don't get themselves injested into some 737's left engine. That could happen very easily in the Vancouver airspace. So it's a good thing and not a big deal. We don't have medical requirements for drivers licences so a self declared medical with a signature from your GP is all that is required. Carrying passengers is what ups the anti to a regular medical. In fact, now that your LSA and LSP are now in force there is some concern here that our advanced ultralight rules may become more restrictive to align them with yours to facilitate cross border flying, sales, purchase, etc. Clif PS, Our third oldest registered homebuilt, a jodel, now up for sale, was registered in 1957. The first is a lot older and we had our share of Heaths and Piets in the 20's and 30's. Aint no forbidding here! :-) :-) > > hmmm... kinda like the Canadian Gov't does?! > > DJ > > ----- Original Message ----- > Can you even imagine how far > > aviation would have advanced had the governments of > > the world forbade the common man to experiment with > > airplanes. Probably we would all still be dreaming of > > flying. > > > > Doc ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First FLight of NX899JP
Date: Oct 07, 2004
From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
Congratulations! What's the story behind the unlikely name, in case I missed an earlier post? Mark Hodgson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: William Wynne: CC#8, Engine for sale, hangar gang photo.
Date: Oct 07, 2004
Howdy, low and slow fliers; if this was already posted I apologize, but here is some information from William Wynne on upcoming "Corvair College" No. 8 as well as other info that he asked be passed along. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX =========================================== From: WilliamTCA(at)aol.com Subject: CorvAircraft> Re:CC#8, Engine for sale, hangar gang photo. Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:27:26 EDT Friends, Grace rewrote our home page last night with several new entries, FlyCorvair.com has details on CC#8, An engine we built which is for sale, and some new information about what we do in the hangar and why we do it. If your on the 601, KR, D-fly, Q or Piet lists, please take a moment to share this with others. Thank You, William. PS: DJ, I expect to see you on the TV show "COPS", I will write the producers and ask for a "dramatic reenactment." ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 07, 2004
From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Hard Wire Rigging
As most of you know, the Hoopman plans call for "hard wire" for bracing the tailplanes of the Pietenpol. I found some stainless steel "soft" wire of .080" diameter at Macmaster's and I'm in the process of installing it. I keep having this nasty little feeling that the way I'm going about terminating the wire in places like the turnbuckles or the "fittings" is the sort of thing an inspector would jump all over. I've looked in the references I have here and nobody even mentions solid wire. I have been unable to convince myself that the thimbles I've used on stranded cable elsewhere in the airplane (wing bracing and aileron control)just don't fit in with the solid wire, so I wind up with the solid wire in direct contact with the steel fittings or the turnbuckles. If there is someone out there who would give me the benefit of their experience in this area, I would be very grateful...Thank you...Carl Vought ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: oil & oil temp questions
Date: Oct 07, 2004
The manual for the A-65 engine calls for 40w oil summer and 20w winter. Would there be a problem with running Aeroshell 15w-50? I dont know anything about oil science. Also, I have noticed that my oil temp has dropped since air temps are going down. I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to make some baffle plates for colder temps? I know that running to cold can cause carbon build up and increase the chance of fouling plugs while making power changes. I'm thinking of a couple of perforated plates that would lay on top of the cylinders, inside the eyebrows. I dont plan on extreme cold flying but it would be nice to get out on good days. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: oil & oil temp questions
Date: Oct 07, 2004
The manual for the A-65 engine calls for 40w oil summer and 20w winter. Would there be a problem with running Aeroshell 15w-50? I dont know anything about oil science. Also, I have noticed that my oil temp has dropped since air temps are going down. I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to make some baffle plates for colder temps? I know that running to cold can cause carbon build up and increase the chance of fouling plugs while making power changes. I'm thinking of a couple of perforated plates that would lay on top of the cylinders, inside the eyebrows. I dont plan on extreme cold flying but it would be nice to get out on good days. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 07, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: oil & oil temp questions
Dick, In all my small Continentals I used Aeroshell 80 in the winter and Aeroshell 100 (both with Marvel Mystery Oil in the crankcase) in the summer with good results. I always do frequent oil changes to prevent sludge build up. I'm sure others have some good suggestions also. Doc --- Richard Navratil wrote: > The manual for the A-65 engine calls for 40w oil > summer and 20w winter. Would there be a problem > with running Aeroshell 15w-50? I dont know anything > about oil science. > Also, I have noticed that my oil temp has dropped > since air temps are going down. I'm wondering if it > might be a good idea to make some baffle plates for > colder temps? I know that running to cold can cause > carbon build up and increase the chance of fouling > plugs while making power changes. I'm thinking of a > couple of perforated plates that would lay on top of > the cylinders, inside the eyebrows. I dont plan on > extreme cold flying but it would be nice to get out > on good days. > Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 07, 2004
Subject: Re: Hard Wire Rigging
Carl, Thats the way we did ours... .080 stainless 304 solid wire from mcMaster-Carr. I have seen lots of Piets done this way. Heres a link to a pic of ours. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=CF0004.JPG& PhotoID=1959 Terry B ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: oil & oil temp questions
Date: Oct 07, 2004
I should have added that my reason for asking is that I sold my Seneca and have some 15w-50 left over. I'd like to use it up. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galen Hutcheson" <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: oil & oil temp questions > > > Dick, > > In all my small Continentals I used Aeroshell 80 in > the winter and Aeroshell 100 (both with Marvel Mystery > Oil in the crankcase) in the summer with good results. > I always do frequent oil changes to prevent sludge > build up. I'm sure others have some good suggestions > also. > > Doc > --- Richard Navratil wrote: > >> The manual for the A-65 engine calls for 40w oil >> summer and 20w winter. Would there be a problem >> with running Aeroshell 15w-50? I dont know anything >> about oil science. >> Also, I have noticed that my oil temp has dropped >> since air temps are going down. I'm wondering if it >> might be a good idea to make some baffle plates for >> colder temps? I know that running to cold can cause >> carbon build up and increase the chance of fouling >> plugs while making power changes. I'm thinking of a >> couple of perforated plates that would lay on top of >> the cylinders, inside the eyebrows. I dont plan on >> extreme cold flying but it would be nice to get out >> on good days. >> Dick N. > > > __________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 07, 2004
Subject: Re: oil & oil temp questions
In a message dated 10/7/04 6:23:45 PM Central Daylight Time, horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes: << Also, I have noticed that my oil temp has dropped since air temps are going down. I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to make some baffle plates for colder temps? >> Dick, I have the same concerns. My oil temp hardly gets above 140 on the cooler days. I think that's not hot enough. I'm curious what others have done. When it's below 50, I dress warm, and I can get at least 4 or 5 circuits in the pattern before my body heat is all gone !! Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: oil & oil temp questions
Date: Oct 07, 2004
Chuck I put in 2.5 hr last Tue at 45 deg. I was mighty cold. My wife was nice enough to make a cover for the front cockpit. I'm going to install cabin heat and remember to throw the long undies into the truck. I'm also remembering to throw in the shotgun in also. The last few times I went to the airport it was too windy to fly, it became a grouse hunting day instead. On the oil thing, I have been running about 140- 150 deg on a 70 deg day. Last week the temp barely came up. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: oil & oil temp questions > > In a message dated 10/7/04 6:23:45 PM Central Daylight Time, > horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes: > > << Also, I have noticed that my oil temp has dropped since air temps are > going down. I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to make some baffle > plates > for colder temps? >> > > Dick, > I have the same concerns. My oil temp hardly gets above 140 on the > cooler > days. I think that's not hot enough. I'm curious what others have done. > When it's below 50, I dress warm, and I can get at least 4 or 5 circuits > in > the pattern before my body heat is all gone !! > > Chuck G. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 07, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: oil & oil temp questions
Hey Chuck, I used to fly the old Bird biplane in the winter and I wore a snowmobile suit. Works pretty good too. Insulated boots and gloves and you can get right cozy in open cockpit. Coldest days a ski mask works too. Doc --- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 10/7/04 6:23:45 PM Central > Daylight Time, > horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes: > > << Also, I have noticed that my oil temp has dropped > since air temps are > going down. I'm wondering if it might be a good > idea to make some baffle plates > for colder temps? >> > > Dick, > I have the same concerns. My oil temp hardly gets > above 140 on the cooler > days. I think that's not hot enough. I'm curious > what others have done. > When it's below 50, I dress warm, and I can get at > least 4 or 5 circuits in > the pattern before my body heat is all gone !! > > Chuck G. > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: First FLight of NX899JP
Date: Oct 08, 2004
Continental A65. Thanks, Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Nelson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First FLight of NX899JP Jack, congrats!! What engine did you use? --- Galen Hutcheson wrote: > Hutcheson > > Yeah, just follow the "Yellow Brick Road" or better > yet a set of railroad tracks that point toward the > direction you want to go. They always follow the > lowest terrain. But look out for those tunnels or > you > could have a clipped winged Piet. :) > > Doc > --- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > > Rcaprd(at)aol.com > > > > A BIG Congratulations, Jack !! Certainly a > > milestone !! > > And I'm sure you'll find your way through the > > Appalachians to get to Brodhead. > > > > Chuck G. > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > ===== Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: hard wire rigging
Date: Oct 08, 2004
Regarding the use of "hard wire" for rigging, as per the old Piet plans, there has been much back-and-forth discussion of that over the years. Most of it is along the lines of "we have much better, modern stuff these days" and will tell you not to do it. However, looking through the great majority of details in the old Flying & Glider Manuals will show that they use wire with twisted "ferrules" almost exclusively. In the archives on the BPA site somewhere (the Grant McLaren site), is an article on making a tool to form the wire ferrules. It also shows how to properly install them. Again, you'll probably hear considerable nay-saying about this and maybe also about how a ferrule with a round inner shape does not properly secure the profile of two wires side-by-side and that the ferrule needs to be flattened for proper installation. I don't know about all that but I had planned to make one of those ferrule-and-loop tools and get a spool of wire from McMaster, make up a representative samples using wire ferrules vs. conventional thimble and aircraft cable, and test them both to failure. Many of the nay-sayers express concern about hardening, embrittlement, and/or fatigue of the wire where it forms the ferrule and eye, and that would no doubt be the point of failure. I just don't believe they would fail at any loading lower than would occur at the point of connection of the tab that connects the wires to the wood framing of the stabilizers, or of some of the other construction points. For the really authentic old-time look, the wire bracing is really interesting to me and I believe it can be done safely and adequately using the right tools and methods. That, however, is my own personal opinion and is completely NOT flight tested! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: hard wire rigging
Oscar-- my feeling has always been that the wood structure will fail long before any cable/turnbuckle/hard-wire support braces would. I think either cables or hard wire are fine back there. If you want the original look, learn and do the hard wire deal, if not don't use anything more than 3/32" cables back there or you'll be adding weight where you don't need any more strength. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: wire ferrules
Date: Oct 08, 2004
List; Sorry if I sounded a little harsh with my last post about hard wire bracing and ferrules. As an engineer, I'm usually more logical, analytical, and unemotional about these things. Let me rephrase my earlier comments by just saying that there are some excellent posts in the archive on this, such as Greg Cardinal's one from 2/28/01 explaining his investigations and comments. He also references an early paper on various wires, cables, and connections (available as a NACA report but you have to search for it with Google and get it off a British technical paper site. I just printed it out moments ago myself). The bottom line is that the typical wire and ferrule method produces connections that aren't as strong as the wire itself. My point was that that may be plenty strong enough and probably stronger than other links in the chain. Greg's bottom line was that pull testing should be done. I haven't done that, but it should be very easy to do. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2004
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: oil & oil temp questions
Its hard to close up airflow around the engine case on an "exposed cylinder" cowl. Some how the airflow needs to be blocked around the engine case for winter flying in these continentals. We have this problem on the '39 T-craft. I noticed some of the Piet builders have done a more meticulous job of fitting the cowl around the engine nose than others. Perhaps these are the guys up north. I noticed especially that Steve E's cowl seems to block a lot of air from the engine case area than ... say... a J3 type nose cowl. Check out the attached pictures to see what I mean. I couldn't find a good picture of Mike Cuy's cowl. I seem to recall it does a better job of blocking air around the engine case. Mike..Steve... have you had any cold-weather low oil temp problems? -- Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2004
From: Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Fun
Yes, I am still messing with the weight and balance issue for N444MH. I have opened up the treasure trove of boxes I got when I bought Howard Hendersons Piet from Joe Santana. (I have a TON of newsletters to go through, WOW!!) I did find Howards original weight and balance calcs. I took his work and made an Excel spreadsheet. Howard used the firewall as datum, and then made an adjustment in the form to locate the CG from the LE of the wing. Here are my conclusions: It is a given that with full tank and one skinny FAA type 175# passenger, Howards CG was 20.4 aft of the LE. Inserting an obese 222# person moves that CG to 21.2 aft of the LE. Am I correct to assume that is about 1.2" too far aft? As I burn fuel off to 12# of fuel, the CG moves to 21.1" aft of the LE. Moving the wing (and the weight and moment of the fuel) back 2 creates a CG at 19.3 aft of the CG. Consuming fuel down to 12# moves the CG to 19.1# aft of the CG Am I on the right track here? Where have I erred? I am about ready to move the wing back about 1.5" and fly the old girl. ===== Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: cowl views
Terry-- I have not had any low oil temp problems that I know of. Here are two photos, one courtesy of Corky, the other my cowl. Jack Phillips and I have very similar cowls, Frank Pavliga, Steve E. Most planes like a Champ, Piet have a hole just below the prop to cool the engine case in the summer and then duct tape over that in the winter. There are some places (univar, Wag RipOff, etc.) that sell insulated "jackets" or coats that snap over your oil tank to keep it warmer in the winter. My oil temps in the summer run about 170 to 185 or 190 at the most.......in the winter on say a 40 F day they run about 120-140, depending on how long I can stand it to let it warm up. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Fun
Larry-- you are on the right track. Move the wing. It will fly mucho better. I have flown mine near the 19" aft of CG limit when low on fuel and it feels "greasy". Does that make any sense. Like a car on snow covered roads where you think you are in control but sometimes not. They just fly weird when they get towards the aft CG. Flaring takes very little as the nose wants to come up pronto. The thing even cruises in a tail low position and you have to hold forward stick to keep from climbing. If all goes well you should be able to use the same X brace cables and turnbuckles after you tilt the wing back. Go two inches and have it over with:)) Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2004
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Fun
Larry, Instead of relying on the weight numbers taken from years ago, I recommend that you go ahead and weigh the airplane for yourself. You never know what items could have been changed since then. Probably not much....but you still never know. For safety's sake... -- Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Fun
Date: Oct 08, 2004
Larry there are some much more simple solutions than moving the wing. You simply need enough ballast in the form of bags of lead shot or sheet of lead in a secured position somewhere forward of the empty plane's CG. I've got a Cozy IV. The damn thing will fall over on it's rear prop unless you put 40# in the nose area. The min. front seat weight is 250#. Some FAA skinny guys 170# guys have to tote around an extra 20# of lead shot out in the nose so they can fly alone. So ALL IS NOT LOST. Number one chore- Go thru the procedure that was outlined in earlier posting. Find out exactly where the loaded CG is with you and a full tank of fuel. Using the LE of the wing as datum. Mark that point on the wing. Your wing should have a chord of approx. 60". Your loaded CG (you and a passenger) with an empty gas tank can never fall back of 33% of chord or 20" behind the LE of the wing. Now set a limit for your plane for how much weight you're gonna allow in the front seat and how much the pilot has max. can weight. For example 200# passenger and #250 pilot. Plus 20 gallons of fuel at 6 #/gal, does this exceed you Gross max weight on your certification. You have to place limits. on each group of things. Baggage, passenger, fuel, pilot, stuff etc. NOW- and only after you've collected the data you need above. Calculate where and how much ballast you'd have to put somewhere secure in the engine compartment or in front of the fuel tank or anywhere out in front of the LE of the wing. In order to assure, when you're at max. passenger weight and you're at max. pilot weight and you've got empty fuel tanks. You never ever have that loaded configuration GC slid back behind the 20" from LE. Remember as you are flying along with max. fuel, as it burns off, you're loaded CG is sliding back toward the 20" mark. NOW- determine if your new loaded configuration of ballast plus fuel plus people puts you loaded CG in front of 25% of chord, or 15" from the LE. Fully loaded. This number is a little more flexible and could be 20-25% due to the authority of your horizonal stab and your elevator. IF your elevator can't lift the nose off the ground at normal takeoff speed, then it's not got enough authority. You'll have to give up a some ballast and some max. pilot weight. All is not lost. "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed, hence clamorous to be led" ; )...................Mencken Gordon Bowen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and Balance Fun > > > Yes, I am still messing with the weight and balance > issue for N444MH. I have opened up the treasure trove > of boxes I got when I bought Howard Hendersons Piet > from Joe Santana. (I have a TON of newsletters to go > through, WOW!!) > > I did find Howards original weight and balance calcs. > I took his work and made an Excel spreadsheet. Howard > used the firewall as datum, and then made an > adjustment in the form to locate the CG from the LE of > the wing. > > Here are my conclusions: > > It is a given that with full tank and one skinny FAA > type 175# passenger, Howards CG was 20.4" aft of the > LE. > > Inserting an obese 222# person moves that CG to 21.2" > aft of the LE. Am I correct to assume that is about > 1.2" too far aft? As I burn fuel off to 12# of fuel, > the CG moves to 21.1" aft of the LE. > > Moving the wing (and the weight and moment of the > fuel) back 2" creates a CG at 19.3" aft of the CG. > > Consuming fuel down to 12# moves the CG to 19.1# aft > of the CG > > Am I on the right track here? Where have I erred? I am > about ready to move the wing back about 1.5" and fly > the old girl. > > > ===== > Larry Nelson > Springfield, MO > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH > 1963 GMC 4106-1618 > SV/ Spirit of America > ARS WB0JOT > > > _______________________________ > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2004
From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: oil & oil temp questions
I used to dress the same way when I drove my 1956 Jaguar XK140 roadster in the winter. It was my main means of transport and I only put the top up when it was cold AND raining. I LUV that snowmobile suit!...Carl Vought wrote : > > Hey Chuck, > > I used to fly the old Bird biplane in the winter and I > wore a snowmobile suit. Works pretty good too. > Insulated boots and gloves and you can get right cozy > in open cockpit. Coldest days a ski mask works too. > > Doc > --- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 10/7/04 6:23:45 PM Central > > Daylight Time, > > horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes: > > > > << Also, I have noticed that my oil temp has dropped > > since air temps are > > going down. I'm wondering if it might be a good > > idea to make some baffle plates > > for colder temps? >> > > > > Dick, > > I have the same concerns. My oil temp hardly gets > > above 140 on the cooler > > days. I think that's not hot enough. I'm curious > > what others have done. > > When it's below 50, I dress warm, and I can get at > > least 4 or 5 circuits in > > the pattern before my body heat is all gone !! > > > > Chuck G. > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2004
From: Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Fun
Terry, we weighed the plane and she is within about 6# of Howards original weights, even with the tailwheel instead of skid and with the doodle-bug brakes that Joe Santana installed. --- BARNSTMR(at)aol.com wrote: > BARNSTMR(at)aol.com > > Larry, > Instead of relying on the weight numbers taken from > years ago, I recommend that you go ahead and weigh > the airplane for yourself. You never know what > items could have been changed since then. Probably > not much....but you still never know. > For safety's sake... > -- > Terry L. Bowden > ph 254-715-4773 > fax 254-853-3805 > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > ===== Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: oil & oil temp questions
A Jag, wow, I'm impressed. Neat cars. Doc --- "Carl D. Vought" wrote: > Vought" > > I used to dress the same way when I drove my 1956 > Jaguar XK140 roadster in > the winter. It was my main means of transport and I > only put the top up > when it was cold AND raining. I LUV that snowmobile > suit!...Carl Vought > > > > Hutcheson > wrote : > > Hutcheson > > > > > Hey Chuck, > > > > I used to fly the old Bird biplane in the winter > and I > > wore a snowmobile suit. Works pretty good too. > > Insulated boots and gloves and you can get right > cozy > > in open cockpit. Coldest days a ski mask works > too. > > > > Doc > > --- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > > > Rcaprd(at)aol.com > > > > > > In a message dated 10/7/04 6:23:45 PM Central > > > Daylight Time, > > > horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes: > > > > > > << Also, I have noticed that my oil temp has > dropped > > > since air temps are > > > going down. I'm wondering if it might be a good > > > idea to make some baffle plates > > > for colder temps? >> > > > > > > Dick, > > > I have the same concerns. My oil temp hardly > gets > > > above 140 on the cooler > > > days. I think that's not hot enough. I'm > curious > > > what others have done. > > > When it's below 50, I dress warm, and I can get > at > > > least 4 or 5 circuits in > > > the pattern before my body heat is all gone !! > > > > > > Chuck G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > > > any other > > > Forums. > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Fun
In a message dated 10/8/04 11:47:12 AM Central Daylight Time, lnelson208(at)yahoo.com writes: << Am I on the right track here? Where have I erred? I am about ready to move the wing back about 1.5" and fly the old girl. >> Larry, You are certainly on the right track. Aft CG is a dangerous place to be. You will probably Never load it to be forward of forward CG. I've Never heard of a Pietenpol with a forward CG problem. I agree with Mike C. about moving the wing back (at least) 2". Keep in mind that by moving the wing 2" back will not move the CG forward a full 2", therefore you should re-weight it after you have the wing temporarily secured in position, and do your calculations. Adding ballast gives me the Hiebie Jiebies !! Use the design for what it was intended for, and move the wing. I doubt if you will be able to re use all of the cables, though...one will be too long, and the other too short. On the long ones, you might be able to carefully cut, and re do one end, just remember the portion of the cable that is consumed in the loop at the end. If you nick any of the strands while cutting off the nico press sleeve, the cable is scrap. Mount it in a vise, and use a hack saw to cut just most of the way through, then pry it apart with a screwdriver. I've also used a dremmel tool with a thin cut off wheel to cut most of the way through, then use a screwdriver to pry it apart, and two pair of pliers to spread it apart and remove it. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Fun
<054201c4ad79$d7edf200$b1a470d1@defaultcomp> Do you plan on carrying a toolkit? or survival gear? Mount these things as far forward as possible. Even in the nose in the case of tools. What about things like batteries. For my electric start Corvair, since I plan on a Jenny style cowl, I will be able to mount the battery quite far forward if necessary. Here in B.C. you can't go very far without entering some pretty severe wilderness, more up and down than crossways, so survival gear is a must and a permanent part of the plane. Every little bit helps. Clif > > Larry there are some much more simple solutions than moving the wing. You > simply need enough ballast in the form of bags of lead shot or sheet of lead > in a secured position somewhere forward of the empty plane's CG. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Subject: Re: oil & oil temp questions
In a message dated 10/8/04 11:41:38 AM Central Daylight Time, BARNSTMR(at)aol.com writes: << Its hard to close up airflow around the engine case on an "exposed cylinder" cowl. >> I will try using duct tape over the hole in front of the J3 fiberglass nose bowl, to see how that affects the temp. I also like the idea of insulating the oil tank, maybe with fiberglass. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Fun
<054201c4ad79$d7edf200$b1a470d1@defaultcomp> Another possibility might be a heavy prop hub cover sticking out front like I've seen on some antiques such as the Tiger Moth. A half round thing the same diameter as the hub. Can't get any farther forward than that. Clif > > simply need enough ballast in the form of bags of lead shot or sheet of lead . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Subject: Balancing rods and pistons
Does anyone have any experience in balancing rods and pistons? I have a highly accurate digital scale used for weighing letters. I've weighed my rods and pistons (separately) and have found some minor differences in weight. (Have not weighed them with bearings and pins yet...) I knew guys in El Paso who balanced the rods and pistons on VW's they raced in Baja and the Mojave desert, but I don't really suspect you get a performance increase doing this and I'm not even certain if making everything weigh the same produces less vibration, especially in something as small as a Continental A-80 engine. I suspect even if you get all the pistons and rods matching in weight, there are still some minor issues with true balance of the crankshaft, making the "balancing act" of the rods and pistons overkill. The guys who balanced their VW engines, believed there would be less stress on them. Thoughts and comments appreciated. Sterling ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: grounding mag switches
Date: Oct 09, 2004
What have you guys grounded your mag switches to? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: grounding mag switches
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Douwe, Since the mags are case grounded to the engine block, obviously has to go to the engine, but I think I cleaned up one of the studs/nuts holding the rear case on. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 10:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: grounding mag switches What have you guys grounded your mag switches to? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: grounding mag switches
Date: Oct 09, 2004
My Slicks have a threaded grounding connection just above the P leads. I think it would be a good idea to install a wire from one mag's grounding terminal to the other and another wire from there to a case bolt. This would tie noth mags to the case potential. (grounding it) Then the black (ground ) wire coming from the mag switch should also be grounded to the case bolt. The problem could be that if corrosion, or crud, somehow affects the connection betewen the mag and the case, like say corrosion in the mag studs, , you could wind up with a mag that is not at the same potential as the case (basically insulated from the case). Looks to me like this could cause a problem Bert ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 5:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: grounding mag switches Douwe, Since the mags are case grounded to the engine block, obviously has to go to the engine, but I think I cleaned up one of the studs/nuts holding the rear case on. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 10:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: grounding mag switches What have you guys grounded your mag switches to? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: oil & oil temp questions
Date: Oct 09, 2004
I'll give it a try too. I was running at 140 deg today on a beautiful mid 60's day. Dick N ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: oil & oil temp questions > > In a message dated 10/8/04 11:41:38 AM Central Daylight Time, > BARNSTMR(at)aol.com writes: > > << Its hard to close up airflow around the engine case on an "exposed > cylinder" cowl. >> > > I will try using duct tape over the hole in front of the J3 fiberglass > nose > bowl, to see how that affects the temp. I also like the idea of > insulating the > oil tank, maybe with fiberglass. > > Chuck G. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: grounding mag switches
Date: Oct 09, 2004
I ran the wire to the engine block and also ran a wire back to a ground plate behind which also grounds the radio antenna. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 9:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: grounding mag switches What have you guys grounded your mag switches to? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Subject: A "no shackle" question
From: "Christopher Friel" <cjfriel(at)ucdavis.edu>
Hello everybody, I've been lurking for about a year now. I've managed to put together a Piet while going to graduate school; I couldn't have done it without all of you. I am now threatening to cover the beast but before I do I have a question about the bracing wires between the spars. Is it acceptable to connnect the non-turnbuckle end of the cables directly to the brace wire fitting or is it best to use a shackle and clevis bolt? All the talk about the hard wire on the tail got me to wondering. I used 1/8" 7x19 stainless wire and a thimble. What do ya think? Chris Davis, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: A "no shackle" question
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Chris. In my opinion, the only down side is if you ever needed to replace a be a problem with the rear spar, but if you use plywood for the leading edge you may not be able to get to the nut on the bolt for the fitting on the front spar. If you use a shackle you can replace the cable fairly easy without that. Now the reality is .. how often would you need to replace a x-brace cable? I chose to use shackles. My 1/50 th of a buck. BC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Friel" <cjfriel(at)ucdavis.edu> Subject: Pietenpol-List: A "no shackle" question > > > Hello everybody, I've been lurking for about a year now. I've managed to > put together a Piet while going to graduate school; I couldn't have done > it without all of you. I am now threatening to cover the beast but before > I do I have a question about the bracing wires between the spars. Is it > acceptable to connnect the non-turnbuckle end of the cables directly to > the brace wire fitting or is it best to use a shackle and clevis bolt? All > the talk about the hard wire on the tail got me to wondering. I used 1/8" > 7x19 stainless wire and a thimble. What do ya think? > > Chris > Davis, CA > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: A "no shackle" question
Date: Oct 09, 2004
There is really no reason to use the extra shackle on that end. I just made the hole in the fitting large enough to accept a thimble. You don't need 1/8" for these. 3/32" is plenty strong for that. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Friel" <cjfriel(at)ucdavis.edu> Subject: Pietenpol-List: A "no shackle" question > > > > Hello everybody, I've been lurking for about a year now. I've managed to > put together a Piet while going to graduate school; I couldn't have done > it without all of you. I am now threatening to cover the beast but before > I do I have a question about the bracing wires between the spars. Is it > acceptable to connnect the non-turnbuckle end of the cables directly to > the brace wire fitting or is it best to use a shackle and clevis bolt? All > the talk about the hard wire on the tail got me to wondering. I used 1/8" > 7x19 stainless wire and a thimble. What do ya think? > > Chris > Davis, CA > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: A "no shackle" question
<003101c4ae71$330e2900$6501a8c0@Nancy> I don't think you'd need to pull the fitting would you? If you have to replace the cable then it has to be cut off anyway and if you have enough room to get at the fitting for removal wouldn't you have enough to nicopress a new end in there? A little like modern appendectomy maybe but doable isn't it? I must admit, I hadn't thought of ever having to do it but s$t happens, doesn't it. Landing gear brackets finally bolted in. Starting LG legs tomorrow. Clif > > Chris. In my opinion, the only down side is if you ever needed to replace a > x-brace cable you'd have to pull the fitting off the spar. This may not > be a problem with the rear spar, but if you use plywood for the leading edge > you may not be able to get to the nut on the bolt for the fitting on the > front spar. > If you use a shackle you can replace the cable fairly easy without that. > > Now the reality is .. how often would you need to replace a x-brace cable? > I chose to use shackles. > My 1/50 th of a buck. > BC > > > > > > > >Is it acceptable to connnect the non-turnbuckle end of the cables directly to > > the brace wire fitting or is it best to use a shackle and clevis bolt? All > > the talk about the hard wire on the tail got me to wondering. I used 1/8" > > 7x19 stainless wire and a thimble. What do ya think? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Subject: Re: A "no shackle" question
In a message dated 10/9/04 9:16:19 PM Central Daylight Time, cjfriel(at)ucdavis.edu writes: << Is it acceptable to connnect the non-turnbuckle end of the cables directly to the brace wire fitting or is it best to use a shackle and clevis bolt? All the talk about the hard wire on the tail got me to wondering. I used 1/8" 7x19 stainless wire and a thimble. What do ya think? >> Chris, I used 3/32" 7X19 cable, and attached the non-turmbuckle end of the cable thimbles directly to the fitting. The hole in the fitting is a straight drilled hole, so I took a fine file, and beveled the side of the hole, to match the radius of the thimble. After over 200 hrs of test flying, the cables still have the same 'twang' as they did when I installed them. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG - nasty direct cross wind today, so I repaired the leak in the smoke tank, and a couple of other squawks. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Subject: Re: Balancing rods and pistons
Sterling, I weighed my pistons and rods before assembly, and they turned out very close. I didn't do anything to get them any closer. I suspect those V W engines turn up over twice the rpm of our Continental engines, where balance may be more crucial. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Subject: Re: A "no shackle" question
In a message dated 10/9/04 10:19:45 PM Central Daylight Time, CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca writes: << I don't think you'd need to pull the fitting would you? If you have to replace the cable then it has to be cut off anyway and if you have enough room to get at the fitting for removal wouldn't you have enough to nicopress a new end in there? A little like modern appendectomy maybe but doable isn't it? >> Clif, Yes, the fitting would have to be removed. I pre-fit the fittings & cables, then nico-press the cable end on before I permanently bolted the fitting in place. No way to get the nico-press tool in there. The cables are permanent fixture, and should never need replacement. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
<006a01c4ae76$fc2a48a0$42705118@dawsonaviation>
Subject: Re: A "no shackle" question
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Cliff I think you'd have a real hard time getting the nicopress sqeezer thingy into a 4 inch inspection hole at the same time being able to hold and snug the nicopress sleeve up against the the thimble while holding and squaring the whole thing up- all the while squeezing that thing on.. Unless there's a new laproscopic squeezon tool I'm not familiar with. I guess I'm like an old "wash woman" and worry about every possible problem that could come up. That's why it's taken me 9 years, 4 months and 3 days to build my plane. (But that suckers about ready to go.) Chris. Drill holes in your fitting big enough for the thimble and don't worry about spending an extra four bucks per cable. (Until later........) {PS went to Thomasville Ga flyin today but no Piets) BC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A "no shackle" question > > I don't think you'd need to pull the fitting would you? If you have to > replace the cable then it has to be cut off anyway and if you have > enough room to get at the fitting for removal wouldn't you have enough > to nicopress a new end in there? A little like modern appendectomy > maybe but doable isn't it? I must admit, I hadn't thought of ever having > to do it but s$t happens, doesn't it. > > Landing gear brackets finally bolted in. Starting LG legs tomorrow. > > Clif > > > > > > > Chris. In my opinion, the only down side is if you ever needed to replace > a > > x-brace cable you'd have to pull the fitting off the spar. This may not > > be a problem with the rear spar, but if you use plywood for the leading > edge > > you may not be able to get to the nut on the bolt for the fitting on the > > front spar. > > If you use a shackle you can replace the cable fairly easy without that. > > > > Now the reality is .. how often would you need to replace a x-brace cable? > > I chose to use shackles. > > My 1/50 th of a buck. > > BC > > > > > > > > > > > > >Is it acceptable to connnect the non-turnbuckle end of the cables > directly to > > > the brace wire fitting or is it best to use a shackle and clevis bolt? > All > > > the talk about the hard wire on the tail got me to wondering. I used > 1/8" > > > 7x19 stainless wire and a thimble. What do ya think? > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Balancing rods and pistons
Date: Oct 10, 2004
Sterling, If you want to have a go at balancing the rods etc yourself, get a copy of Richard Finch's book "How to keep your Corvair alive". There are diagrams in it that show how to build jigs to balance the engine parts. I haven't yet done this myself, but it looks simple enough. Cheers, Rod Wooller Chidlow, Australia >From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Balancing rods and pistons >Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 08:48:29 EDT > >Does anyone have any experience in balancing rods and pistons? > >I have a highly accurate digital scale used for weighing letters. I've >weighed my rods and pistons (separately) and have found some minor >differences in >weight. (Have not weighed them with bearings and pins yet...) > >I knew guys in El Paso who balanced the rods and pistons on VW's they raced >in Baja and the Mojave desert, but I don't really suspect you get a >performance >increase doing this and I'm not even certain if making everything weigh the >same produces less vibration, especially in something as small as a >Continental >A-80 engine. > >I suspect even if you get all the pistons and rods matching in weight, >there >are still some minor issues with true balance of the crankshaft, making the >"balancing act" of the rods and pistons overkill. > >The guys who balanced their VW engines, believed there would be less stress >on them. > >Thoughts and comments appreciated. > >Sterling > > Protect yourself from junk e-mail: http://microsoft.ninemsn.com.au/protectfromspam.aspx ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
Subject: Re: Balancing rods and pistons
Date: Oct 10, 2004
I did a full dynamic balance on my Continental A-65. Since it was going into a certified plane (Taylorcraft) the IA checking my work on the rebuild wanted all the work done before he looked at the parts. After the stock car engine builder did his thing a normal check was done by the repair shop at the airport. The balance guy matched all of the pistons and took a light shave of the inside of the piston skirts to get them in balance (had to exchange a couple of pistons that were VERY light which he said were probably "inclusions" in the castings). Next he made sure all of the wrist pins and caps matched afterwhich he mated up specific caps, pins and pistons to get the TOTALS to match (stop tolerances from adding up). Next he did the rods by weighing them from both ends (use one hole as a pivot and weigh the other). He did this both ways so the rods not only had the same weight, but their CG was in the same place. Finally was a dynamic balance of the crank and cam. He spun the crank on a balance lathe to over 20,000 RPM looking for balance and harmonics. THAT WAS SCARY! I never saw something as massive as a Continental crank spin THAT fast. IF it had come out of the lathe I can't imagine the damage it could do. He seemed a little amused at my concern and said stock cars go MUCH higher. I haven't run the engine yet but the IA said he was impressed by the numbers and I should have an incredibly smooth engine. Remember it takes power to shake an engine and that's what vibration is. If you get rid of the vibration you get more power at the prop. I just wonder if it will be measurable. All told I think I paid less than $200 US for all of the balance work. Even if it doesn't make a measurable difference it was a blast to be there for. Hank J ----- Original Message ----- From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Balancing rods and pistons Does anyone have any experience in balancing rods and pistons? I have a highly accurate digital scale used for weighing letters. I've weighed my rods and pistons (separately) and have found some minor differences in weight. (Have not weighed them with bearings and pins yet...) I knew guys in El Paso who balanced the rods and pistons on VW's they raced in Baja and the Mojave desert, but I don't really suspect you get a performance increase doing this and I'm not even certain if making everything weigh the same produces less vibration, especially in something as small as a Continental A-80 engine. I suspect even if you get all the pistons and rods matching in weight, there are still some minor issues with true balance of the crankshaft, making the "balancing act" of the rods and pistons overkill. The guys who balanced their VW engines, believed there would be less stress on them. Thoughts and comments appreciated. Sterling ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Oct 10, 2004
Subject: Re: Balancing rods and pistons
Good points and I thank all who replied. I remember the VW racers were really dealing with high RPMs and the VW engines were really hopped up. I also submitted a bid on Ebay for the book Rod recommended. I found a good article on engine balancing and it was an interesting and informative read. It can be accessed at this URL. Dynamic and static seems more than my postal scale can handle and for $200, it seems like a small fee to pay for all the work the tech did on the Continental 65. I'd like to see that 65 run someday. http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb10330.htm Thanks, S.B. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
Subject: Re: Balancing rods and pistons
Date: Oct 10, 2004
Me too. It will probably end up in my other plane (41 Taylorcraft) when its engine times out before it goes into the 45 Taylorcraft that is taking an eternity to finish. I hope it meets everyone's (that worked on it) expectation. The NASCAR engine builder that did the work said one reason he did it was because he had never worked on an airplane engine and it was his off season. If it works as well as it looks it will be a champion. Hank J ----- Original Message ----- From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 10:44 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Balancing rods and pistons Good points and I thank all who replied. I remember the VW racers were really dealing with high RPMs and the VW engines were really hopped up. I also submitted a bid on Ebay for the book Rod recommended. I found a good article on engine balancing and it was an interesting and informative read. It can be accessed at this URL. Dynamic and static seems more than my postal scale can handle and for $200, it seems like a small fee to pay for all the work the tech did on the Continental 65. I'd like to see that 65 run someday. http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb10330.htm Thanks, S.B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: A "no shackle" question
<003101c4ae71$330e2900$6501a8c0@Nancy> <006a01c4ae76$fc2a48a0$42705118@dawsonaviation> <005701c4ae84$fad97d50$6501a8c0@Nancy> Yeah, I drew it out to see and it would be something I would not want to have to try. 9 years! I just posted a few more pics to mykitplane. This is as far as I have gotten in 10. I figure another 5. Why is it so many other things seem to get in the way of the truly important things in life? :-) :-) :-) http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList3.cfm?Start=61&AlbumID=27 Clif > > > Cliff > I think you'd have a real hard time getting the nicopress sqeezer thingy > into a 4 inch inspection hole > That's why it's taken me 9 years, 4 months and 3 days to build my plane. > (But that suckers about ready to go.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "billshamblin" <shamblin(at)hci.net>
Subject: balancing
Date: Oct 11, 2004
flyers, there is a section on balancing and engine on page 21 of the 1929 flying and gliding manual. bill shamblin morganton nc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "billshamblin" <shamblin(at)hci.net>
Subject: about to begin??
Date: Oct 11, 2004
flyers, what are the important changes to the aircamper plans after those presented in 1932 f+g manual?? or can one reasonably work from those plans alone?? thanks, bill shamblin morganton nc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: about to begin??
Date: Oct 11, 2004
Bill, The major differences in the "Improved" Air Camper plans and the F&G plans are in the fuselage and the landing gear. The tailplane is slightly different as well. Good airplanes have been constructed from either set of plans, and from the "long" fuselage which came out much later. Many planes are constructed from a combination of the different versions. My own Air Camper, which flew for the first time last week, has the long fuselage, the Vi Kapler 3-piece wing, but the original F&G landing gear. Choose what you like and build it. It will still be a Pietenpol. I doubt if any two of the half dozen or so Air Campers built by BHP were identical. Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC > > From: "billshamblin" <shamblin(at)hci.net> > Date: 2004/10/11 Mon AM 05:53:31 EDT > To: > Subject: Pietenpol-List: about to begin?? > > flyers, > > what are the important changes to the aircamper plans after those presented in 1932 f+g manual?? or can one reasonably work from those plans alone?? > > > > thanks, > > bill shamblin > morganton nc > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 11, 2004
Subject: Re: about to begin??
In a message dated 10/11/04 12:25:36 PM Central Daylight Time, pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net writes: << I doubt if any two of the half dozen or so Air Campers built by BHP were identical. >> Jack, Bernard Harold Pietenpol built either 24 or 26 Air Campers. Doc Mosher's directory lists them. No two of them were exactly alike. The last two were built in 1960 and 1964, with Corvair engines. Bill, If you are seriously considering building a Pietenpol AirCamper, purchase the plans directly from the Pietenpol Family. Their web site: http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dmott9(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 11, 2004
Subject: Re: about to begin??
In a message dated 10/11/04 2:31:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Rcaprd(at)aol.com writes: > Jack, > Bernard Harold Pietenpol built either 24 or 26 Air Campers. Doc Mosher's > directory lists them. No two of them were exactly alike. The last two were > > built in 1960 and 1964, with Corvair engines. > It might be interesting to post details of the airplanes that BHP did build. Chronological order and what improvements, or modifications he made on each one would be good "historical" information. Engine type, Empty weight and where the airplane is now also. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Weight and Balance Fun
Date: Oct 12, 2004
From: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Guys, When you move the wing back do you move the lower struts back? If so I assume you would have to angle the fuselage uprights back too. Am I all messed up? Jack T Des Moines ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Fun
Date: Oct 12, 2004
Jack, Fuselage-to-strut attachment locations don't change. The fittings are designed to allow the struts to pivot fore and aft allowing the wing position to change in relation to the fuselage. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Textor, Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Weight and Balance Fun > "Textor, Jack" > > > Guys, > When you move the wing back do you move the > lower struts back? If so I > assume you would have to angle the fuselage > uprights back too. Am I all > messed up? > Jack T > Des Moines > > > Forum - > through the Contributions > banner ads or any other > Matronics Forums. > http://www.matronics.com/chat > pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/search > http://www.matronics.com/chat > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
Subject: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions
Date: Oct 12, 2004
Guys, For the engineers out there, would the attached rough drawing be feasible? I came up with the idea based on the concept that Lindbergh used a wicker seat in the Spirit of St. Louis and looking at some of DJ's shots of the GN-1. The corners would be rounded and the sections between the cutouts would be approximately 4" to 5" wide (WAG - wild ass guess). I would carry over the concept to the seats and seat backs as well. Any thoughts? On another subject, for everyone that's used Charles Rubeck's wing ribs (or hasn't for that matter). I have noticed that the front "hole" width for the main spar is 1" and the back "hole" is 1-1/8" wide. The spar matierial I have is 1" wide. Am I missing something here? Thanks, Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
Subject: Re: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions
Date: Oct 12, 2004
In case it wasn't clear in the original posting, the lightened sides I'm speaking of are the plywood sides that overlay the side fuselage frames. Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 12, 2004
Subject: Ceramic Fiber firewall insulation
wacopitts(at)yahoo.com, pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Gentlemen, My ceramic fiber material for firewall insulation came in last friday. I finally got around to cutting and packaging some tonight for those who requested for purchase . Sorry for the delay. I will be sending the packages off tomorrow so I will let you each know the final total price with shipping by email tomorrow. For those of you who already sent money, thank you. I will refund any amount you over paid. The following are those who I have already cut and packaged material for. Dan Wilson 24" X 24" = $5.80 + shipping Arthur Johnson 36" X 24" = $8.70 + shipping Galen Hutchinson 24" X 24" = $5.80 + shipping Rick Holland 36" X 24" = $8.70 + shipping Don Hicks 24" X 24" = $5.80 + shipping I also have some material set aside for myself and... Sterling Brooks Jim Markle That leaves enough for about five more orders. Anyone else wishing to purchase this material for $1.45 per sq.ft. let me know and I will send it out this week. Attached is a copy of the labels on the box I received. Terry Bowden 254-715-4773 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doyle Combs" <dcombs(at)ltex.net>
Subject: Re: Ceramic Fiber firewall insulation
Date: Oct 12, 2004
Terry, go ahead and send me one for a standard Piet. Doyle Combs ----- Original Message ----- From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com To: dwilson(at)ci.austin.mn.us ; aejohnson(at)bigpond.com ; at7000ft(at)gmail.com ; wacopitts(at)yahoo.com ; pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Cc: jim_markle(at)mindspring.com ; N321TX(at)wmconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 8:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ceramic Fiber firewall insulation Gentlemen, My ceramic fiber material for firewall insulation came in last friday. I finally got around to cutting and packaging some tonight for those who requested for purchase . Sorry for the delay. I will be sending the packages off tomorrow so I will let you each know the final total price with shipping by email tomorrow. For those of you who already sent money, thank you. I will refund any amount you over paid. The following are those who I have already cut and packaged material for. Dan Wilson 24" X 24" $5.80 + shipping Arthur Johnson 36" X 24" $8.70 + shipping Galen Hutchinson 24" X 24" $5.80 + shipping Rick Holland 36" X 24" $8.70 + shipping Don Hicks 24" X 24" $5.80 + shipping I also have some material set aside for myself and... Sterling Brooks Jim Markle That leaves enough for about five more orders. Anyone else wishing to purchase this material for $1.45 per sq.ft. let me know and I will send it out this week. Attached is a copy of the labels on the box I received. Terry Bowden 254-715-4773 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Subject: Re: Ceramic Fiber firewall insulation
Terry, I resubmit my order for a piece 24x27. Corky 625 Pierremont Rd Shreveport, La 71106 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Subject: Re: Ceramic Fiber firewall insulation
OK Corky. I'll find out the shipping cost and let you know tomorrow night by email. Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Subject: Re: Ceramic Fiber firewall insulation
OK Doyle. Send me your address. I will let you know the cost with shipping tomorrow nite. Hope all is going well with you. Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Metal Substitution
Hi Gang, Got a question I need some information on. Has anyone thought about or has done substituting a high grade aluminum (of equal strength to the steel fittings) for some of the steel fittngs. I should think that by redesigning the fittings to enhance their strength might be a good alternative. Please respond with any input you have. Thanks. Doc ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Another question-motor cycle wheels
Does anyone know of any "off the shelf" motor cycle wheels that have been used with good results for the Piet with the wooden gear? Money is really tight and I can't afford right now to have a "top of the line" set of wheels fabricated. Surely some racing or motocross wheels would have the strength to handle the side loads that one would anticipate with flying. Thank for your advice. Doc _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Borodent(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Subject: Re: Ceramic Fiber firewall insulation
Terry Bowden I would like the insulation material --- 24" by 36" Henry Williams 59 Crescent Dr Huntington NY 11743 thanks a lot Henry W ( borodent @aol.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Another question-motor cycle wheels
Doc-- Wil Graf in nearby Wadsworth Ohio has used off the shelf used motorcycle wheels for years with no problems, despite what people say about needing the wide-width hubs. Wider hubs ARE the preferred way to go, but if you don't ground loop it or go off into the toolies the regular wheels as is work fine once you have them bored and bushed for the axle size you are using. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: "engine turning" cowlings
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Gentlemen, I'm not sure what the proper term is, but I'd appreciate thoughts on how to get those "turning/swirl" marks on a bare aluminum cowling. Is it a very fine stainless wire brush in a die grinder or one of those nylon abrasive brushes?? With a piece of metal the size of the cowling parts, using a drill press is out, so I assume it'll have to be handheld, maybe with some sort of jig. Thoughts?? Douwe douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: "engine turning" cowlings
Date: Oct 13, 2004
HI Douwe, It is called "Engine Turning". I did my instrument panels using an old intake valve with a circular pad of Scotchbrite superglued to it, mounted in my drill press. It only takes a second of pressure to put the swirls into aluminum. Jack Phillips > > From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> > Date: 2004/10/13 Wed AM 08:33:11 EDT > To: "pietenpolgroup" > Subject: Pietenpol-List: "engine turning" cowlings > > Gentlemen, > > I'm not sure what the proper term is, but I'd appreciate thoughts on how to get those "turning/swirl" marks on a bare aluminum cowling. > > Is it a very fine stainless wire brush in a die grinder or one of those nylon abrasive brushes?? > > With a piece of metal the size of the cowling parts, using a drill press is out, so I assume it'll have to be handheld, maybe with some sort of jig. > > Thoughts?? > > Douwe > douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Metal Substitution
Doc, The only place I've considered substituting aluminum in place of steel is the streamline wing struts... but I've decided not to. Some folks have though. I can't see that you'd gain much by changing the design of the fittings. The dimensions would need to ge significantly changed. I would be most concerned about the fatigue life, especially around bolt holes. Aluminum would require much greater edge distance and/or greater thickness to equal the same strength. So, you certainly couldn't expect to save much weight as the fittings are designed pretty light to begin with. Thats my 2 cents worth. -- Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Long fuselage plans strut fitting
The long fuselage plans have a large note on top "3/4" x3 Filler For Strut Fitting". So I was going to attach my rear cabane strut fitting to that. Then I read in the archieves that you should attach it to the vertical strut that runs between the top and bottom longeron. Opinions? Attaching to the filler block would pervent me from having to cut off the ends of the 1/2x1 cross brace and the cowl support. Thanks -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Metal Substitution
Date: Oct 13, 2004
I went with aluminum not for weight savings but for cost savings. 4130 streamline was going to cost me a fortune and I got all the aluminum strut material for about $175 from Carlson Aircraft. In reality I think the aluminum struts come out about 20% heavier than steel once the end fittings are installed and they are ready to fly. One day, after I get my TIG welder and learn to use it I'm gonna make 4130 struts..... one day DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal Substitution > > Doc, > The only place I've considered substituting aluminum in place of steel is the streamline wing struts... but I've decided not to. Some folks have though. I can't see that you'd gain much by changing the design of the fittings. The dimensions would need to ge significantly changed. I would be most concerned about the fatigue life, especially around bolt holes. Aluminum would require much greater edge distance and/or greater thickness to equal the same strength. So, you certainly couldn't expect to save much weight as the fittings are designed pretty light to begin with. Thats my 2 cents worth. > -- > Terry L. Bowden > ph 254-715-4773 > fax 254-853-3805 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Stacy In thinking about this weight saving issue, consider how much weight you are really saving over how much you are compromising you safety. In basic structural issues it is always best to stay with the plans. On the wing ribs, I dont know but suspect its just for some extra wiggle room in fitting the ribs. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Stacy Clark To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 2:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions Guys, For the engineers out there, would the attached rough drawing be feasible? I came up with the idea based on the concept that Lindbergh used a wicker seat in the Spirit of St. Louis and looking at some of DJ's shots of the GN-1. The corners would be rounded and the sections between the cutouts would be approximately 4" to 5" wide (WAG - wild ass guess). I would carry over the concept to the seats and seat backs as well. Any thoughts? On another subject, for everyone that's used Charles Rubeck's wing ribs (or hasn't for that matter). I have noticed that the front "hole" width for the main spar is 1" and the back "hole" is 1-1/8" wide. The spar matierial I have is 1" wide. Am I missing something here? Thanks, Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Another question-motor cycle wheels
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Doc Check out my Harley Davidson 21" wheels. They are working out great. 1 1/4" axle 18" - 4140 axle inserts Wheel bearings have to be removed and replaced with rear wheel bearings Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galen Hutcheson" <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor cycle wheels > > > Does anyone know of any "off the shelf" motor cycle > wheels that have been used with good results for the > Piet with the wooden gear? Money is really tight and > I can't afford right now to have a "top of the line" > set of wheels fabricated. Surely some racing or > motocross wheels would have the strength to handle the > side loads that one would anticipate with flying. > Thank for your advice. > > Doc > > > _______________________________ > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Stacy... if you leave about 3-5" of ply at the edges and cut the center out, making sure you have a nice large radius, it will be fine. I used a full roll of Duct tape as my radius when I traced the lines. Do not do sharp radiuses or hard corners as it will be a stress riser. The material in the middle does little in the way of strength..... it's almost nothing but dead weight. Do use a good quality aircraft ply. cheap hardware store ply would not be suggested if youre going to cut out the centers. I saved about 2 lb by doing that, but 2 lb in the tail means about 4 up front to counter it so it could be said youre saving 6lb.... although, for other reasons that is debatable. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Stacy Clark To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 12:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions Guys, For the engineers out there, would the attached rough drawing be feasible? I came up with the idea based on the concept that Lindbergh used a wicker seat in the Spirit of St. Louis and looking at some of DJ's shots of the GN-1. The corners would be rounded and the sections between the cutouts would be approximately 4" to 5" wide (WAG - wild ass guess). I would carry over the concept to the seats and seat backs as well. Any thoughts? On another subject, for everyone that's used Charles Rubeck's wing ribs (or hasn't for that matter). I have noticed that the front "hole" width for the main spar is 1" and the back "hole" is 1-1/8" wide. The spar matierial I have is 1" wide. Am I missing something here? Thanks, Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Another question-motor cycle wheels
Dick, That sounds like a great wheel. I know the Harley wheels are tough (once owned two Harleys myself, wish I still had the wheels) do you know which model they came out on? A friend of mine knows of a cycle junk-yard and we were going to look for something. Thanks for sending the pic and the info. Doc --- Richard Navratil wrote: > Doc > Check out my Harley Davidson 21" wheels. They are > working out great. > 1 1/4" axle > 18" - 4140 axle inserts > Wheel bearings have to be removed and replaced with > rear wheel bearings > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Galen Hutcheson" <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 1:06 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor > cycle wheels > > > Hutcheson > > > > > > Does anyone know of any "off the shelf" motor > cycle > > wheels that have been used with good results for > the > > Piet with the wooden gear? Money is really tight > and > > I can't afford right now to have a "top of the > line" > > set of wheels fabricated. Surely some racing or > > motocross wheels would have the strength to handle > the > > side loads that one would anticipate with flying. > > Thank for your advice. > > > > Doc > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=P1010109.jpg _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Metal Substitution
Thanks Terry and DJ, I just had a passing thought about the aluminum as I had a damaged spring aluminum gear that came off my Pitts that I have been looking for something to do with except to bring back some unpleasant memories. :) It is really strong stuff and would be good material, but it also might be heavier. Thanks for the info though. Doc --- DJ Vegh wrote: > > > I went with aluminum not for weight savings but for > cost savings. 4130 > streamline was going to cost me a fortune and I got > all the aluminum strut > material for about $175 from Carlson Aircraft. > > In reality I think the aluminum struts come out > about 20% heavier than steel > once the end fittings are installed and they are > ready to fly. > > One day, after I get my TIG welder and learn to use > it I'm gonna make 4130 > struts..... one day > > DJ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <BARNSTMR(at)aol.com> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 6:26 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal Substitution > > > BARNSTMR(at)aol.com > > > > Doc, > > The only place I've considered substituting > aluminum in place of steel is > the streamline wing struts... but I've decided not > to. Some folks have > though. I can't see that you'd gain much by > changing the design of the > fittings. The dimensions would need to ge > significantly changed. I would > be most concerned about the fatigue life, especially > around bolt holes. > Aluminum would require much greater edge distance > and/or greater thickness > to equal the same strength. So, you certainly > couldn't expect to save much > weight as the fittings are designed pretty light to > begin with. Thats my 2 > cents worth. > > -- > > Terry L. Bowden > > ph 254-715-4773 > > fax 254-853-3805 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: "engine turning" cowlings
Douwe, I've seen it done with a wire cup brush attached to either a drill press or a good hand drill. Doc --- pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net wrote: > > > HI Douwe, > > It is called "Engine Turning". I did my instrument > panels using an old intake valve with a circular pad > of Scotchbrite superglued to it, mounted in my drill > press. It only takes a second of pressure to put > the swirls into aluminum. > > Jack Phillips > > > > From: "Douwe Blumberg" > > > Date: 2004/10/13 Wed AM 08:33:11 EDT > > To: "pietenpolgroup" > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: "engine turning" cowlings > > > > Gentlemen, > > > > I'm not sure what the proper term is, but I'd > appreciate thoughts on how to get those > "turning/swirl" marks on a bare aluminum cowling. > > > > Is it a very fine stainless wire brush in a die > grinder or one of those nylon abrasive brushes?? > > > > With a piece of metal the size of the cowling > parts, using a drill press is out, so I assume it'll > have to be handheld, maybe with some sort of jig. > > > > Thoughts?? > > > > Douwe > > douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: wheel weights
Galen-- you might want to shop around for aluminum rims/wheels as you will save a decent amount of wt. there in the wheels if you do. Steel rims are okay but alum. even better. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Another question-motor cycle wheels
Hi Michael, Nice talking to you again. I felt that way too. There are some pretty heavy motorcycles out there and many of them take some pretty good side loads and seem to hold up pretty well. I appreciate all the good info that you and the group have given me. I am still plugging along and making pretty good headway. Except for a little logging accident (a tree kicked back and caused my prized chain saw to take a big bite out of my knee) which put me on crutches for awhile. As winter moves in, I am going to have to give up some of my workshop to my wife's car. She doesn't share the zeal I have for the Piet. :) I wonder if I "accidentally" get some T-88 on her car she might want to park elsewhere? I wonder... Thanks to the group for all the fine info and I am looking forward to meeting all of you at Broadhead this summer. Doc --- Michael D Cuy wrote: > > > Doc-- Wil Graf in nearby Wadsworth Ohio has used off > the shelf used > motorcycle wheels > for years with no problems, despite what people say > about needing the > wide-width hubs. > Wider hubs ARE the preferred way to go, but if you > don't ground loop it or > go off into the toolies > the regular wheels as is work fine once you have > them bored and bushed for > the axle size you are > using. > > Mike C. > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: wheel weights
Great idea Mike, I'll do that. Thanks. Doc --- Michael D Cuy wrote: > > > Galen-- you might want to shop around for aluminum > rims/wheels as you will > save a decent amount of wt. there > in the wheels if you do. Steel rims are okay but > alum. even better. > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Another question-motor cycle wheels
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Unfortunatly the wheel is off a 2002 and later, with sealed bearings. The spread between spokes is 4 1/2". I commonly see them at M.C swap shows and on e-bay at about $150. I used the Harley rotors also and go kart calipers, though on my new Piet I'm using Harley calipers. I compared notes with Greg Cardinal some time ago and my set up was within a couple of pounds of his. As I recall, 63 lb. including wheels, tires brakes and axle. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galen Hutcheson" <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor cycle wheels > > > Dick, > > That sounds like a great wheel. I know the Harley > wheels are tough (once owned two Harleys myself, wish > I still had the wheels) do you know which model they > came out on? A friend of mine knows of a cycle > junk-yard and we were going to look for something. > Thanks for sending the pic and the info. > > Doc > --- Richard Navratil wrote: > >> Doc >> Check out my Harley Davidson 21" wheels. They are >> working out great. >> 1 1/4" axle >> 18" - 4140 axle inserts >> Wheel bearings have to be removed and replaced with >> rear wheel bearings >> Dick >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Galen Hutcheson" <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 1:06 AM >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor >> cycle wheels >> >> >> Hutcheson >> > >> > >> > Does anyone know of any "off the shelf" motor >> cycle >> > wheels that have been used with good results for >> the >> > Piet with the wooden gear? Money is really tight >> and >> > I can't afford right now to have a "top of the >> line" >> > set of wheels fabricated. Surely some racing or >> > motocross wheels would have the strength to handle >> the >> > side loads that one would anticipate with flying. >> > Thank for your advice. >> > >> > Doc >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________ >> > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! >> > http://vote.yahoo.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=P1010109.jpg > > > _______________________________ > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Subject: Re: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions
Stacy, The GN1 has the plywood all the way to the tail, and I could see the reasoning for carefully placing lightning holes there towards the tail. However, the holes in the cockpit area are not recommended, because this is where the majority of the stresses of the engine, wing, and landing gear all come together, and your weight savings would be minimal. Also, if you put holes there you will certainly drop something in there, between the plywood and the fabric. Keep in mind the seats in the Pietenpol are structural pieces, especially the pilot seat. NX211 (Spirit of St. Louis) was a steel tube fuselage, and the wicker seats are a light weight and durable place to sit. As for the ribs, the aft hole should be 1". It seems you will have to figure out where the holes are in relation to the plans, and shim with plywood at each rib, to maintain the plans location of the spars. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Subject: Re: Metal Substitution
In a message dated 10/13/04 12:58:22 AM Central Daylight Time, wacopitts(at)yahoo.com writes: << Has anyone thought about or has done substituting a high grade aluminum (of equal strength to the steel fittings) for some of the steel fittngs. I should think that by redesigning the fittings to enhance their strength might be a good alternative. >> Doc, It's all been thought of, and some even built, but the resounding conclusion is to stick with the plans method and dimensions of steel fittings. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: "engine turning" cowlings
I believe the old time machinest call it "damiscening" (sp?). Carl V wrote : > > > > Gentlemen, > > I'm not sure what the proper term is, but I'd appreciate thoughts on how to get those "turning/swirl" marks on a bare aluminum cowling. > > Is it a very fine stainless wire brush in a die grinder or one of those nylon abrasive brushes?? > > With a piece of metal the size of the cowling parts, using a drill press is out, so I assume it'll have to be handheld, maybe with some sort of jig. > > Thoughts?? > > Douwe > douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: Another question-motor cycle wheels
Galen: For the record, the wheels on my unlicensed/unfinished Aircamper are 19" BMW motorcycle wheels. The tires are 4.00/90 and my understanding is that this means the inside diameter is 19" and width is 4.00" and the height is 90% of that or 3.6". I believe that the wide (6") hubs are more authentic, and more asthetic but gain one little in the way of side load strength....Carl V wrote : > > Dick, > > That sounds like a great wheel. I know the Harley > wheels are tough (once owned two Harleys myself, wish > I still had the wheels) do you know which model they > came out on? A friend of mine knows of a cycle > junk-yard and we were going to look for something. > Thanks for sending the pic and the info. > > Doc > --- Richard Navratil wrote: > > > Doc > > Check out my Harley Davidson 21" wheels. They are > > working out great. > > 1 1/4" axle > > 18" - 4140 axle inserts > > Wheel bearings have to be removed and replaced with > > rear wheel bearings > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Galen Hutcheson" <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 1:06 AM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor > > cycle wheels > > > > > > Hutcheson > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of any "off the shelf" motor > > cycle > > > wheels that have been used with good results for > > the > > > Piet with the wooden gear? Money is really tight > > and > > > I can't afford right now to have a "top of the > > line" > > > set of wheels fabricated. Surely some racing or > > > motocross wheels would have the strength to handle > > the > > > side loads that one would anticipate with flying. > > > Thank for your advice. > > > > > > Doc > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > > > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=P1010109.jpg > > > > > > _______________________________ > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Another question-motor cycle wheels
Hi Carl, Thanks, that gives me even more options. I agree, it would be nice to stay with the authentic as much as possible, but at what cost. Seems the smaller wheels would be lighter too, esp if aluminum. Thanks for the input. What did you use for an axel? Doc --- "Carl D. Vought" wrote: > Vought" > > Galen: For the record, the wheels on my > unlicensed/unfinished Aircamper are > 19" BMW motorcycle wheels. The tires are 4.00/90 and > my understanding is > that this means the inside diameter is 19" and width > is 4.00" and the > height is 90% of that or 3.6". I believe that the > wide (6") hubs are more > authentic, and more asthetic but gain one little in > the way of side load > strength....Carl V > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > > > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote > today! > > > > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=P1010109.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Metal Substitution
Thanks Chuck, looks like that is the general opinion. Doc --- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 10/13/04 12:58:22 AM Central > Daylight Time, > wacopitts(at)yahoo.com writes: > > << Has anyone > thought about or has done substituting a high grade > aluminum (of equal > strength to the steel fittings) for some of the > steel fittngs. I should think that > by redesigning the fittings to enhance their > strength might be a good > alternative. >> > > Doc, > It's all been thought of, and some even built, but > the resounding conclusion > is to stick with the plans method and dimensions of > steel fittings. > > Chuck G. > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Another question-motor cycle wheels
Dick, that's not bad. I will keep my eyes open for some good deals. Might have to go rekindle some old Harley friendships...hummmm. :) (I can see the headlines now..."OLD MAN CAUGHT STEALING WHEELS OFF HELL'S ANGEL'S BIKE--FULL RECOVERY EXPECTED, CONDITION STABLE." Doc --- Richard Navratil wrote: > Navratil" > > Unfortunatly the wheel is off a 2002 and later, with > sealed bearings. The > spread between spokes is 4 1/2". I commonly see > them at M.C swap shows and > on e-bay at about $150. I used the Harley rotors > also and go kart calipers, > though on my new Piet I'm using Harley calipers. > I compared notes with Greg Cardinal some time ago > and my set up was within a > couple of pounds of his. As I recall, 63 lb. > including wheels, tires brakes > and axle. > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Galen Hutcheson" <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 1:18 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor > cycle wheels > > > Hutcheson > > > > > > Dick, > > > > That sounds like a great wheel. I know the Harley > > wheels are tough (once owned two Harleys myself, > wish > > I still had the wheels) do you know which model > they > > came out on? A friend of mine knows of a cycle > > junk-yard and we were going to look for something. > > Thanks for sending the pic and the info. > > > > Doc > > --- Richard Navratil > wrote: > > > >> Doc > >> Check out my Harley Davidson 21" wheels. They > are > >> working out great. > >> 1 1/4" axle > >> 18" - 4140 axle inserts > >> Wheel bearings have to be removed and replaced > with > >> rear wheel bearings > >> Dick > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Galen Hutcheson" <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> > >> To: > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 1:06 AM > >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor > >> cycle wheels > >> > >> > >> Hutcheson > >> > > >> > > >> > Does anyone know of any "off the shelf" motor > >> cycle > >> > wheels that have been used with good results > for > >> the > >> > Piet with the wooden gear? Money is really > tight > >> and > >> > I can't afford right now to have a "top of the > >> line" > >> > set of wheels fabricated. Surely some racing > or > >> > motocross wheels would have the strength to > handle > >> the > >> > side loads that one would anticipate with > flying. > >> > Thank for your advice. > >> > > >> > Doc > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________ > >> > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote > today! > >> > http://vote.yahoo.com > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=P1010109.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: off the subject
Date: Oct 13, 2004
I tried sending this earlier but it didn"t go thru. If you all have time check this out. It is a beautiful tribute to our troops, not political. Turn up the sound. www.clermontyellowribbon.com/untilthen.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: off the subject
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Doesn't work ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 9:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: off the subject I tried sending this earlier but it didn"t go thru. If you all have time check this out. It is a beautiful tribute to our troops, not political. Turn up the sound. www.clermontyellowribbon.com/untilthen.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: oil & oil temp questions
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Dick, We use Aeroshell 100 50w here in Florida year around. We had the Shell expert talk to us this year and he said that 15/50 was exactly what you need up in that COLD country of the north. Of course, we don't know anything about cold down here but I remember his comments. Go ahead and use it. Went flying for 3 hours today for the first time since the weekly run of huricanes. It was nice to have some nice fall weather with blue skys and low 80s. Ted From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> The manual for the A-65 engine calls for 40w oil summer and 20w winter. Would there be a problem with running Aeroshell 15w-50? I dont know anything about oil science. Also, I have noticed that my oil temp has dropped since air temps are going down. I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to make some baffle plates for colder temps? I know that running to cold can cause carbon build up and increase the chance of fouling plugs while making power changes. I'm thinking of a couple of perforated plates that would lay on top of the cylinders, inside the eyebrows. I dont plan on extreme cold flying but it would be nice to get out on good days. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: off the subject
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Sorry, I left out a part of there adderss Please try again www.clermontyellowribbon.com/untilthenflash.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: cgalley To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 9:36 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off the subject Doesn't work ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 9:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: off the subject I tried sending this earlier but it didn"t go thru. If you all have time check this out. It is a beautiful tribute to our troops, not political. Turn up the sound. www.clermontyellowribbon.com/untilthen.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Google and "N" number
DJ, you are right about that. That is incredible! For fun, enter N894W, click on Bird4 and follow the links. You will see my last love. I don't know how that plane got on there, but those were some of my pics. I'm going to try some of the other numbers. Thanks DJ. Doc _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com day, October 13, 2004 9:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: off the subject I tried sending this earlier but it didn"t go thru. If you all have time check this out. It is a beautiful tribute to our troops, not political. Turn up the sound. www.clermontyellowribbon.com/untilthen.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: oil & oil temp questions
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Thanks Ted Good to hear you made it thru the hurricanes ok. It's time for the oil change and the weather is changing. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: oil & oil temp questions > > > Dick, > > We use Aeroshell 100 50w here in Florida year around. We had the Shell > expert talk to us this year and he said that 15/50 was exactly what you > need > up in that COLD country of the north. Of course, we don't know anything > about cold down here but I remember his comments. Go ahead and use it. > > Went flying for 3 hours today for the first time since the weekly run of > huricanes. It was nice to have some nice fall weather with blue skys and > low 80s. > > Ted > > From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> > > The manual for the A-65 engine calls for 40w oil summer and 20w winter. > Would > there be a problem with running Aeroshell 15w-50? I dont know anything > about > oil science. > Also, I have noticed that my oil temp has dropped since air temps are > going > down. > I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to make some baffle plates for > colder > temps? I know that running to cold can cause carbon build up and increase > the chance of fouling plugs while making power changes. I'm thinking of > a > couple of perforated plates that would lay on top of the cylinders, inside > the > eyebrows. I dont plan on extreme cold flying but it would be nice to get > out > on good days. > Dick N. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Google and "N" number
There are three pics of my Bird. One is listed as part of the Bach collection. I sent Richard Bach some photos, and we emailed for awhile, to keep him posted on my barnstorming activities. Guess he liked the old Bird too. I sure miss that old gal, we had a lot of fun together. --- Galen Hutcheson wrote: > Hutcheson > > DJ, you are right about that. That is incredible! > For fun, enter N894W, click on Bird4 and follow the > links. You will see my last love. I don't know how > that plane got on there, but those were some of my > pics. I'm going to try some of the other numbers. > Thanks DJ. > > Doc > > > > _______________________________ > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
Subject: Re: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions
Date: Oct 14, 2004
Thanks guys. I've decided to stick with "as plans" on the side panels because of your input. The wicker would have looked good though. I might still overlay some on the seat backs (no cutout). Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions
I wonder if you couldn't give the seats the "wicker look" by gluing thin strips of 1/16 birch ply, in a basket weave, over the wooden seats. I know, some weight, but it should give it a nice look. Doc --- Stacy Clark <stacy@unicom-alaska.com> wrote: > Thanks guys. I've decided to stick with "as plans" > on the side panels because of your input. The > wicker would have looked good though. I might still > overlay some on the seat backs (no cutout). > > Stacy > > There is only one greater thing than to believe in > the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: two Pietenpols for sale on Barnstormers.com
<014e01c4b19f$9d987fb0$0100a8c0@Desktop> Go to http://www.barnstormers.com/ and type Pietenpol after you click the search button. Mike C. PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER =95 $9,500 =95 FOR SALE =95 Completed and flown in 2001 2 seat aircamper FAA reg. exp. 35 hrs. t.t. af and eng. 85 hp EA 81 subaru, bal & blueprinted , cruises at 75mph with 75% pwr. Internal wood const. built buy a craftsman with over 25 homebuilt aircraft completed. Will send pic's upon request. =95 Contact Lane Hetherington - located Pamana, OK USA =95 Telephone: 918-963-4467 =95 Posted October 10, 2004 =95 Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser =95 Recommend This Ad to a Friend =95 Send a Message OPEN COCKPIT FUN ! PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER =95 $6,000 =95 AVAILABLE FOR SALE =95 2 pass.tandem 730 tt A/E 65hp Continental recent valves and rings chrome valve covers Delcom radio always hangared ELT new interior voice activated intercom needs wood and fabric repair to the wings and elevator.Damage caused by Hurr. Charley.Aircraft is worth repairing.Please call 239 - 549- 8886 =95 Contact Richard West - located Cape Coral, FL USA =95 Telephone: 239 - 549 - 8886 =95 Posted September 19, 2004 =95 Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser =95 Recommend This Ad to a Friend =95 Send a Message PIETENPOL FOR SALE =95 $12,000 =95 AVAILABLE FOR SALE =95 pietenpol tt 70 hrs completed 12 8 94 constructed per 1931 original plans using a/c quality parts and consrtuction methods ford model A with aluminum 7-1 head psi lube system bendix mag s4ln-21 water pump from vw jeta carb na-s2. 3 peice wing routed spars empty wt 630.contact Bob Borrows 540 473661 =95 Contact Bob Burrows - R&B AIRCRAFT CO. located Fincastle, VA USA =95 Telephone: 540-473-3661 =95 Fax: 540-473-3661 =95 Posted September 15, 2004 =95 Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser =95 Recommend This Ad to a Friend =95 Send a Message ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions
What you want, to refine Galens suggestion is to either find someone familiar with "marquetry" and have that person make up a basket weave pattern in a panel or learn to do it yourself. http://www.marquetry.org/index.htm http://www.staffsmarq.freeserve.co.uk/guide2.htm http://www.staffsmarq.freeserve.co.uk/index.html Of course, once you start down this road, the plane will never get finished! A good artist knows his techniques, materials and how to use them. A great artist knows when to stop. The exception that proves the rule? William Turner. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galen Hutcheson" <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions > > I wonder if you couldn't give the seats the "wicker > look" by gluing thin strips of 1/16 birch ply, in a > basket weave, over the wooden seats. I know, some > weight, but it should give it a nice look. > > Doc > --- Stacy Clark <stacy@unicom-alaska.com> wrote: > > > Thanks guys. I've decided to stick with "as plans" > > on the side panels because of your input. The > > wicker would have looked good though. I might still > > overlay some on the seat backs (no cutout). > > > > Stacy > > > > There is only one greater thing than to believe in > > the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy > Clark > > > _______________________________ > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "billshamblin" <shamblin(at)hci.net>
Subject: rib gusset material??
Date: Oct 15, 2004
builders, what is our best source of rib gussett material?? i thought aircraft spruce used to sell 1/16" plywood already cut up but i havent been able to locate it. is there something eles that works? thanks, much to learn in nc ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 15, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: rib gusset material??
I went to the hobby stores and bought Midwest brand aircraft grade 5 ply birch plywood. It is very strong and comes in a couple of different sizes. It is a little pricey, but easily obtained. Doc --- billshamblin wrote: > builders, > > what is our best source of rib gussett material?? i > thought aircraft spruce used to sell 1/16" plywood > already cut up but i havent been able to locate it. > is there something eles that works? > > thanks, > > much to learn in nc > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: rib gusset material??
Date: Oct 15, 2004
From: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Galen, I have very good luck with Wicks. You can buy about any size. I buy a 4'x8' sheet and have them cut (to ship) to 2'x4'. Packed very well and with regular UPS it gets to me in 2 days. Jack ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 15, 2004
Subject: Re: rib gusset material??
In a message dated 10/15/04 8:04:05 AM Central Daylight Time, shamblin(at)hci.net writes: << builders, what is our best source of rib gussett material?? i thought aircraft spruce used to sell 1/16" plywood already cut up but i havent been able to locate it. is there something eles that works? . thanks, much to learn in nc >> Bill, It takes quite a sizable piece of 1/16" plywood to do the ribs, and there is always other places to use it, so don't be shy about buying too much. Here is a few links to some places I've heard about, although I've never bought any there. The last two are info. http://www.aitwood.com Edensaw Woods in Port Townsend, WA. 800-745-3336; http://www.edensaw.com http://www.hardwoodint.com/ Boulter Plywwod Corp. 24 Broadway, dept. WB Somerville, MA 02145 www.boulterplywood.com http://www.faa.gov/certification/aircraft/av-info/dst/amateur/default.htm http://www.faa.gov/certification/aircraft/av-info/dst/43-13/default.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 15, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: rib gusset material??
Jack, I've heard that about Wicks too. I had bought some from AS&S, pretty pricey but they shipped pretty quickly. I had mentioned the hobby store ply as a ready source and I use it in a pinch. It is a good grade of ply and compares well with what I got at AS&S. Thanks for the info though. Doc --- "Textor, Jack" wrote: > Galen, > > I have very good luck with Wicks. You can buy about > any size. I buy a > 4'x8' sheet and have them cut (to ship) to 2'x4'. > Packed very well and > with regular UPS it gets to me in 2 days. > > Jack > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John E. Joyce" <jayejay(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Plotting Coordinates for Pietenpol Wing Rib ( NO FILES
ATTACHED)
Date: Oct 16, 2004
Pieters: A few hours ago I sent out the message below with 3 small files attached. If anyone is interested in seeing the files, let me know and I will post them to the photo section. I can also email them to you. John Pieters: If you're interested in looking at my early efforts to get a Piet rib into a CAD file read on, otherwise trash this message. Earlier this year someone published the coordinates for the Piet rib. As luck would have it, I kept the coordinates but not the name of the person posting them. Tonight I finally got around to converting the coordinates into a format acceptable to rib design software I have been using for model aircraft design. (It handles ribs up to 11 feet in size.) That software also creates DXF files, the CAD interchange format. I plugged the Piet DXF file into AutoCAD 2000 and now have a real CAD file. I have attached these files for you. Don't know if there is much interest. File 1: PIETCFWN.TPL Created using SoarSoft Software's CompuFoil. This "TPL" file is a type created by this application. I provide it in case someone out there has this software. File 2: PIETRIB.DXF Created using software above. It is described as the standard CAD interchange or exchange format. File 3: PIETRIB.DWG Created using AutoCAD 2000. Please note that the leading edge looks a little sloppy. I can't tell if it's the Compufoil software or perhaps the coordinates. Maybe someone can re-identify the original contributor. Also note I have made no attempt to add the internal rib parts and won't get into it until I am more comfortable with the coordinates. Regards, John John Joyce 9 Sylvia Road North Reading, MA 01864 978.664.3578 John Joyce 9 Sylvia Road North Reading, MA 01864 978.664.3578 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 17, 2004
Subject: Fuselage sides
Is it okay to splice the fuselage side plywood at an upright? I purchased some 4x4' pieces of ply from McCormicks -- they didn't have any 4x8' sheets. If it's not a good idea that's okay as I'll use the 4x4' pieces for gussets, etc. Just wondering... Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 17, 2004
From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Fuselage sides
Fred, Worst case you could scarf them. It is not all that hard to do with a hand plane or a router jig. It is done for building stitch and glue kayaks and canoes. Dave At 10:29 AM 10/17/2004, you wrote: >Is it okay to splice the fuselage side plywood at an upright? I purchased >some 4x4' pieces of ply from McCormicks -- they didn't have any 4x8' >sheets. If it's not a good idea that's okay as I'll use the 4x4' pieces >for gussets, etc. Just wondering... > >Fred B. >La Crosse, WI > >--- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Fuselage sides
Date: Oct 17, 2004
If it is a scarf joint 12 to 1 See AC 43.113-1b for details. Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair A Service Project of Chapter 75 EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: TBYH(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage sides Is it okay to splice the fuselage side plywood at an upright? I purchased some 4x4' pieces of ply from McCormicks -- they didn't have any 4x8' sheets. If it's not a good idea that's okay as I'll use the 4x4' pieces for gussets, etc. Just wondering... Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fuselage sides
Date: Oct 17, 2004
I did. I butted mine together on top of a diagonal or upright. Glued a corresponding strip of 1 1/2 inch plywood over the butt joint and seems to work ok. If it's under the fabric nobody sees it. And the glued area doing it this way is as good or better than the scarf. My opinion. Bert ----- Original Message ----- From: TBYH(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage sides Is it okay to splice the fuselage side plywood at an upright? I purchased some 4x4' pieces of ply from McCormicks -- they didn't have any 4x8' sheets. If it's not a good idea that's okay as I'll use the 4x4' pieces for gussets, etc. Just wondering... Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Fuselage sides
Date: Oct 17, 2004
Hi Fred I spliced ours at a upright. I scoffed the joint so it is hidden behind the upright. Used a radial arm saw with a sanding disk instead of a blade . Set the saw about 3 degrees of horz. Dale Mpls ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage sides Is it okay to splice the fuselage side plywood at an upright? I purchased some 4x4' pieces of ply from McCormicks -- they didn't have any 4x8' sheets. If it's not a good idea that's okay as I'll use the 4x4' pieces for gussets, etc. Just wondering... Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Fuselage sides
Date: Oct 17, 2004
I dont see that should be a strength issue. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: TBYH(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage sides Is it okay to splice the fuselage side plywood at an upright? I purchased some 4x4' pieces of ply from McCormicks -- they didn't have any 4x8' sheets. If it's not a good idea that's okay as I'll use the 4x4' pieces for gussets, etc. Just wondering... Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Waytogopiet(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 17, 2004
Subject: Re: Fuselage sides
In a message dated 10/17/2004 2:50:25 PM Central Standard Time, ddjohn(at)earthlink.net writes: Is it okay to splice the fuselage side plywood at an upright Did mine on a diagonal for more surface. Dale, how did you get yours BEHIND the upright?? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 17, 2004
Subject: Re: Fuselage sides
In a message dated 10/17/04 9:52:28 AM Central Daylight Time, cgalley(at)qcbc.org writes: << If it is a scarf joint 12 to 1 See AC 43.113-1b for details. Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair A Service Project of Chapter 75 EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: TBYH(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage sides Is it okay to splice the fuselage side plywood at an upright? I purchased some 4x4' pieces of ply from McCormicks -- they didn't have any 4x8' sheets. If it's not a good idea that's okay as I'll use the 4x4' pieces for gussets, etc. Just wondering... Fred B. La Crosse, WI >> I agree with Cy. The only acceptable way to join plywood, or any length of wood for that matter, is to use the Scarf Joint, as described in AC 43-13 Chuck Gantzer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: ordering the covering
Date: Oct 17, 2004
I'm excited... I'm going to place an order for covering/chemicals sometime this or next week. Covering begins soon!!!! yeeehawww! DJ _ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 17, 2004
( NO FILES AT...
Subject: Re: Plotting Coordinates for Pietenpol Wing Rib ( NO FILES
AT... John, Could you post these files to matronics file share or mykitplanes.com? I would like to have access to them. Thanks for going to the trouble. Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: 3 piece wing
Date: Oct 17, 2004
I was just looking over 3 pc plan and wondering, how do you lead the aileron cable through the turning pulley and attach the wing? To clarify, the swedge turnbuckle end are too large to fit thru the pulley. Do you have to unbolt the pulley or is it typical to add a linkage at the wing side? I don't see anything on the plan about this. Dick ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 3 piece wing
Date: Oct 18, 2004
Dick, I made my aileron cable system with a total of 7 separate cables. Two in each wing, plus two short cables going from the control stick torque tube through the centersection, plus a separate cable through the centersection for the return cable. Yours may vary. Mine was made more complicated by the avionics in the centersection, which restricts access somewhat. If you are planning on unbolting the centersection pulleys to pass a cable through, you need to have the pulley bolts fastened with nutplates so you can get the bolts in and out (at least on mine, with a fuel tank just forward of the centersection spar). Put a couple more hours on mine this weekend - up to about 5 hours on it now. Wonderful fun, flying an open cockpit airplane on a crisp fall day. As Walt Evans says, "Ain't life GRAND!" Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Navratil Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3 piece wing I was just looking over 3 pc plan and wondering, how do you lead the aileron cable through the turning pulley and attach the wing? To clarify, the swedge turnbuckle end are too large to fit thru the pulley. Do you have to unbolt the pulley or is it typical to add a linkage at the wing side? I don't see anything on the plan about this. Dick ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: 3 piece wing
Date: Oct 18, 2004
Unbolting the pulleys is how we handled this issue. Access panels were built into the underside of the center section, aft of the rear spar to reach this area. Another good reason to build a one-piece wing....... Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 10:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3 piece wing I was just looking over 3 pc plan and wondering, how do you lead the aileron cable through the turning pulley and attach the wing? To clarify, the swedge turnbuckle end are too large to fit thru the pulley. Do you have to unbolt the pulley or is it typical to add a linkage at the wing side? I don't see anything on the plan about this. Dick ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 18, 2004
Subject: Re: material sent
Received Friday in good shape. Thanks Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 18, 2004
( NO FILES AT...
Subject: Re: Plotting Coordinates for Pietenpol Wing Rib ( NO FILES
AT... In a message dated 10/17/04 9:54:28 PM Central Daylight Time, BARNSTMR(at)aol.com writes: << John, Could you post these files to matronics file share or mykitplanes.com? I would like to have access to them. Thanks for going to the trouble. Terry >> John, Me too !! Thanks Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: 3 piece wing
Date: Oct 18, 2004
Greg I have a one piece wing on mine, it's a lot to handle in mounting. Thats why I'm doing a 3 piece this time. Something like what Jack suggests with seperate sections is the way I'll go. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 7:00 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3 piece wing Unbolting the pulleys is how we handled this issue. Access panels were built into the underside of the center section, aft of the rear spar to reach this area. Another good reason to build a one-piece wing....... Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 10:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3 piece wing I was just looking over 3 pc plan and wondering, how do you lead the aileron cable through the turning pulley and attach the wing? To clarify, the swedge turnbuckle end are too large to fit thru the pulley. Do you have to unbolt the pulley or is it typical to add a linkage at the wing side? I don't see anything on the plan about this. Dick ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: 3 piece wing
Date: Oct 18, 2004
Dick, I used Mike Cuy's advice, and don't regret it. Just marked each cable end and left it rolled up in the root of the wing. After installing wings for the final assy, simply measure the cables and install eyes and bolt up. This included the turnbuckle in the overhead, and both cables comming down to the torque tube. This allowed for smaller holes in the cowl, and if I ever had to dissassemble, just cut the cables near the eyes and add more eyes later to reattach. Yes, Life IS grand!! walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 11:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3 piece wing I was just looking over 3 pc plan and wondering, how do you lead the aileron cable through the turning pulley and attach the wing? To clarify, the swedge turnbuckle end are too large to fit thru the pulley. Do you have to unbolt the pulley or is it typical to add a linkage at the wing side? I don't see anything on the plan about this. Dick ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 18, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: wing cables---sketch attatched
Walt--- glad things worked out for you w/ the 3 pce wing rigging/cable set up. Here is a chicken-scratch sketch I drew up a few years back. Nothing fancy. I figure that if I ever ding a wing or have to take the wings off I'll just cut the cables and either add more cable or just re-string new cables. (used 3/32" diam. cables) Mike C. in Ohio What's Kip G. been up to ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 18, 2004
From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: ordering the covering
Have you ever done this? If not, I predict that after you get over the initial reticence, you'll love it!...Carl Vought > > > > I'm excited... I'm going to place an order for covering/chemicals sometime this or next week. Covering begins soon!!!! yeeehawww! > > DJ > > _ > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: wing cables---sketch attatched
Date: Oct 18, 2004
Mike, Exactly what I did after talking to you. Great to get outside advise when I'm starting to go on a tangent. If someday I have to take off the wings, It would only take me an hour tops to reassemble on the next site. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing cables---sketch attatched > Walt--- glad things worked out for you w/ the 3 pce wing rigging/cable set > up. Here is a chicken-scratch sketch I drew > up a few years back. Nothing fancy. I figure that if I ever ding a > wing or have to take the wings off I'll just cut the cables > and either add more cable or just re-string new cables. (used 3/32" diam. > cables) > > Mike C. in Ohio > > What's Kip G. been up to ? ---- > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Ford engine location
Date: Oct 19, 2004
G'day mates! I'm getting ready to begin installing my Ford engine, but after perusing the plans can't seem to find a measurement for how far forward of the firewall it goes. Am I missing something? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 19, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: The UK Pietenpol Club Web Site--- good !
<000801c4b4c6$e439e420$0600a8c0@laptop> Guys-- this is a pretty neat web site for what's happening in the Pietenpol world over in jolly old England ! Mike C. http://www.pjshenton.go-plus.net/default.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: The UK Pietenpol Club Web Site--- good !
Date: Oct 19, 2004
Actually, I think the UK site has been updated and redesigned, with a different address http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/ Still very good. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: The UK Pietenpol Club Web Site--- good ! Guys-- this is a pretty neat web site for what's happening in the Pietenpol world over in jolly old England ! Mike C. http://www.pjshenton.go-plus.net/default.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 19, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The UK Pietenpol Club Web Site--- good !
Great site Mike, now bookmarked. Doc --- Michael D Cuy wrote: > > > Guys-- this is a pretty neat web site for what's > happening in the Pietenpol > world over in jolly old England ! > > Mike C. > > http://www.pjshenton.go-plus.net/default.htm > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 19, 2004
From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: Ford engine location
The dimensions of the engine bearers specify the location of the clearence cutout for the oil pump bulge in the oil pan, which, in turn, determines the engine placement..right?...Carl Vought wrote : > > > > G'day mates! > > I'm getting ready to begin installing my Ford engine, but after perusing the plans can't seem to find a measurement for how far forward of the firewall it goes. > > Am I missing something? > > Douwe > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Waytogopiet(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 19, 2004
Subject: Re: Ford engine location
Carl is correct on this. Just work between dwgs #6 & #8. After you have enlarged the four pan-mounting holes to 5/16- inch as indicated just hold your engine bearer up against the oil pump housing and transfer the hole locations. Voila !! Now,see all of the fun you'd be missing with a kit built plane !! Don Hicks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 19, 2004
From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Model A head
In order to reduce the download time, I'm breaking this up into two messages. The subject of the second message which I will send next is rudder control on the Air Camper. First message: 1)I'm considering outfitting my engine for dual ignition by buying a head from Dan Price [www.dan4banger.com]. He offers an aluminum 6:1 compression head with two 14mm sparkplugs per cylinder. I presume the 14mm referrs to the plug diameter, but I don't know. Does it? The original plugs for that engine were 7/8" diameter, 14 threads per inch. Is there a problem with using a smaller plug? I will drive one mag with a "side drive" unit that I got from Ken Perkins. The second mag will be driven directly off the crankshaft in the traditional manner. 2)Is there anyone out there who knows Dan Price and can recommend his stuff? Thank you very much...Carl Vought ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 19, 2004
From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Aircamper rudder control
Hi Pieters...I'm rigging my Aircamper. Just finished the hardwire on the tail and the flexible cable on the stick/elevator. As I was about to connect the cable from the rudder horn to the pedals, I did a dry run with a string. The plans are vague on the routing of the rudder cables, but if you plan to run them direct, they will have to go through the back of the pilot's seat, close to the sides of the cockpit. There were two things I didn't like about that arrangement. First, I'd rather have them out of the way, running just above the floor, under the seat, not through it. Second, I'd prefer a rudder bar instead of the pedals that are already there. What I plan to do is leave the pedals as is and instal a rudder bar behind the seat, close to where the bellcrank (or walking beam) for the elevator is located and two inches above the surface of the longerons. I'll run cables from this "rudder bar" to the pedals and from the rudder bar to the rudder horns. This will put the cables where I want them withour adding pullies and the rudder bar will isolate heavy foot pressures from the rudder horns. This arrangement also provides a better routing of the rudder cables through the fabric and fuselage structure (no rubbing). Maybe this is a common practice? Maybe some of you know why it's a bad idea. I would appreciate any comments you have..Thank you, Carl Vought ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 19, 2004
From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Model A engine
Hello Pieters.....I wrote this long email earlier today and as far as I can tell, It went into the garbage instead of onto the net. It concerns my engine. I'm considering rigging my engine for dual ignition. I can get an aluminum head weighing 13 pounds, with a 6:1 compression ratio and two plugs per cylinder from Dan Price (www.dan4banger.com). I will run one mag off a side drive which I got from Ken Perkins and the other will be driven directly off the crankshaft as shown in the Hoopman drawings. There are a couple of uh-ohs. One is that the head is machined for 14mm plugs. The original plug was a 7/8"X14TPI plug. Is there any problem with using this small plug? Another open question is: Have they gotten higher compression by reducing or eliminating carbon clearance space by lowering the clearance between the head and the piston at TDC? Can anyone comment on their experience with this company?...Thank you...Carl Vought ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bingelis' Weight and Balance form
Date: Oct 19, 2004
Have any of you looked closely at Bingelis' weight and balance form for the Emeraude (page 298 of the Sportplane Builder" book - that's the blue one)? If you look in the top box - where it calculates the empty weight, it sure seems to me that the moment for REMOVING the oil should be POSITIVE 208.8 inch pounds. Instead of Negative 208.8 inch pounds. I've done this every way I can think of and the only way that seems like it fits is if it's Positive, Can't tell about the ballast because he doesn't say where it's located but if it's in front of the datum it should be positive too. Maybe I missed something - or else it's a mistake. PS I included a picture of Larry Harrison's Flying Flea - We did the W&B on it Sunday. By the way, he's started on yet another Piet. It's gonna be sweet, too. Got the fuselage complete. Wing's already built. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 19, 2004
From: Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Model A engine
I, too, am most anxious in what answers or suggestions come from this. --- "Carl D. Vought" wrote: > Vought" > > Hello Pieters.....I wrote this long email earlier > today and as far as I can > tell, It went into the garbage instead of onto the > net. It concerns my > engine. I'm considering rigging my engine for dual > ignition. I can get an > aluminum head weighing 13 pounds, with a 6:1 > compression ratio and two > plugs per cylinder from Dan Price > (www.dan4banger.com). I will run one mag > off a side drive which I got from Ken Perkins and > the other will be driven > directly off the crankshaft as shown in the Hoopman > drawings. There are a > couple of uh-ohs. One is that the head is machined > for 14mm plugs. The > original plug was a 7/8"X14TPI plug. Is there any > problem with using this > small plug? Another open question is: Have they > gotten higher compression > by reducing or eliminating carbon clearance space by > lowering the clearance > between the head and the piston at TDC? Can anyone > comment on their > experience with this company?...Thank you...Carl > Vought > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > ===== Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 19, 2004
Subject: Re: Ford engine location
In a message dated 10/19/04 12:19:37 PM Central Daylight Time, Waytogopiet(at)aol.com writes: << Carl is correct on this. Just work between dwgs #6 & #8. After you have enlarged the four pan-mounting holes to 5/16- inch as indicated just hold your engine bearer up against the oil pump housing and transfer the hole locations. Voila !! >> Douwe, The only think I might add to what Carl & Don explained, is that if you weigh consideribly more than B.H.P., you might consider making the mount an inch or so longer, for weight & balance purposes. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: ford engine placement
Date: Oct 19, 2004
sorry, disregard. I found on the plans a way to figure it out. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: 3 piece wing
Date: Oct 19, 2004
Dick, Mine has simple linkage for disconnecting. Ted > From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3 piece wing > > I was just looking over 3 pc plan and wondering, how do you lead the aileron cable > through the turning pulley and attach the wing? To clarify, the swedge turnbuckle > end are too large to fit thru the pulley. Do you have to unbolt the > pulley or is it typical to add a linkage at the wing side? I don't see anything > on the plan about this. > Dick > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 19, 2004
Subject: Re: Aircamper rudder control
Carl, I suggest you just rig the rudder bar per plans, and run the rudder cables down low near the floor under the seat. Acording to AC 43.13 you can use hardwood (not pulleys) as a fairlead, if the deflection is less than 7 degrees. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 19, 2004
Subject: Re: Bingelis' Weight and Balance for
In a message dated 10/19/04 6:13:20 PM Central Daylight Time, bconoly(at)earthlink.net writes: << If you look in the top box - where it calculates the empty weight, it sure seems to me that the moment for REMOVING the oil should be POSITIVE 208.8 inch pounds. Instead of Negative 208.8 inch pounds. >> Bert, I don't see where it says anything about a Negative 208.8 inch pounds. I see where the oil was removed : -7.20 X -27.0 = Positive 194.40 inch pounds. E.W.C.G. is 9.69 inches. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 20, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Aircamper rudder control
Carl-- I used two nylon pullies under my seats and nylon/teflon fairleads on the fuse sides near where the cables exit the fuselage. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bingelis' Weight and Balance for
Date: Oct 20, 2004
Hmmmm Mine say -7.2 and - 29 giving 208.8 but it's listed as Negative 208.8. I wonder if I havean older edition or something with an error? Mine says first edition, second printing. Thaanks ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bingelis' Weight and Balance for > > In a message dated 10/19/04 6:13:20 PM Central Daylight Time, > bconoly(at)earthlink.net writes: > > << If you look in the top box - where it calculates the empty weight, it sure > seems to me that the moment for REMOVING the oil should be POSITIVE 208.8 > inch pounds. Instead of Negative 208.8 inch pounds. >> > > Bert, > I don't see where it says anything about a Negative 208.8 inch pounds. I see > where the oil was removed : -7.20 X -27.0 = Positive 194.40 inch pounds. > E.W.C.G. is 9.69 inches. > > Chuck G. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Tractor type prop wanted
Date: Oct 20, 2004
I'm looking around for a wood or metal tractor type prop for my winter Piete project, using a Lycosaur 0-235. Anybody who hasn't converted their dreams into a lovely clock, contact me off line. Thanks-Gordon Bowen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 20, 2004
Subject: Re: Bingelis' Weight and Balance for
In a message dated 10/20/04 9:06:44 AM Central Daylight Time, bconoly(at)earthlink.net writes: << Hmmmm Mine say -7.2 and - 29 giving 208.8 but it's listed as Negative 208.8. I wonder if I havean older edition or something with an error? Mine says first edition, second printing. >> Mine says: Less Oil -7.2 -27.00 194.40 In the bottom left corner of this page it says: Revised 1-19-87 I can't find anywhere in the front of the book, or on the cover, where it says what printing it is. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 20, 2004
Subject: Re: Model A head
Carl, I bought a Dan Price head, and found the quality very good. These products have been around for awhile, so the bugs are probably all worked out. When I used this higher compression head, I had to use two head gaskets, because the tops of the pistons protruded up past the deck of the block. This was probably due to the fact that the top of my block had probably been surfaced ground at some point in it's life. The 6:1 head is machined flat, with dished out room just in the area where the valves stick up. I ran, and flew the plane in this configuration for maybe 10 hrs, but then went back to the stock cast iron head, and one head gasket. The main reason I went back to the cast iron head was for W & B reasons. I could not tell any difference in performance between the higher 6:1 head, and the stock 4.8:1 head. I used only one Wico magneto, driven off the crank the way the plans show. I can't see any problems with the different size plugs, but you may have to experiment with the heat range of the plugs. It seemed like my Model A plugs didn't last very long. I would have trouble starting the engine, change the plugs, and it would start right up. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 21, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Aircamper rudder control
Just a suggestion, but I suppose string is going to be run to make sure all the framework is going to be cleared? My share of silly mistreaks I'd gladly trade for chocolate cake. But then I'd never fit in the plane! Clif > > Carl-- I used two nylon pullies under my seats and nylon/teflon fairleads > on the > fuse sides near where the cables exit the fuselage. > > Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 21, 2004
From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: Aircamper rudder control
First of all, thanks to those who responded to my email. Yep..I run a tight string between the intended attachment points of the cable, just to check out the clearances. In the case of the rudder cable, I had to run the string (on the outside of the fuselage) between the rudder horn and a point corresponding to the position of the lug on the rudder pedal. I have every intention to be faithful to the original plans, but I'm dealing with an abandoned project and the builder who preceeded me did a first class job of installing pedals AND the front seat. I could have ripped out the front seat to access the pedals to remove them and install a rudder bar, but I'm unwilling to do that...Carl wrote : > > Just a suggestion, but I suppose string is going to be run to make > sure all the framework is going to be cleared? > > My share of silly mistreaks I'd gladly trade for chocolate cake. > But then I'd never fit in the plane! > > Clif > > > > > > > > Carl-- I used two nylon pullies under my seats and nylon/teflon fairleads > > on the > > fuse sides near where the cables exit the fuselage. > > > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Stapelberg" <norshel(at)mweb.co.za>
Subject: Tractor type prop wanted
Date: Oct 22, 2004
Hi Gordon That power plant is that not a Lycoming 0-235, if it is e-mail me off line as I also have one installed we can swap notes. I am running a 74" dia by 44" pitch, on my next prop I am going for is a 76" dia by 42" prop. With my prop I get 2300 rpm static, with the GSC I ran I also got 2300RPM static and cruised at 85mph indicted at 2300rpm, The prop did not seem to unload enough, you should try to get 2400 static. Cheers Norman Stapelberg South Africa -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Bowen Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tractor type prop wanted I'm looking around for a wood or metal tractor type prop for my winter Piete project, using a Lycosaur 0-235. Anybody who hasn't converted their dreams into a lovely clock, contact me off line. Thanks-Gordon Bowen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Tractor type prop wanted
Date: Oct 22, 2004
Norman, Thanks for email. I'm really attempting to use a Lycosaurus O-235, this engine is an original pre WWII from Lycoming. 100 HP. I'm going to forward to you an email I got from Jay Anderson in Texas that builds props. He also recommends 76" with 42-44 pitch. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Norman Stapelberg To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 9:43 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tractor type prop wanted Hi Gordon That power plant is that not a Lycoming 0-235, if it is e-mail me off line as I also have one installed we can swap notes. I am running a 74" dia by 44" pitch, on my next prop I am going for is a 76" dia by 42" prop. With my prop I get 2300 rpm static, with the GSC I ran I also got 2300RPM static and cruised at 85mph indicted at 2300rpm, The prop did not seem to unload enough, you should try to get 2400 static. Cheers Norman Stapelberg South Africa -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Bowen Sent: 21 October 2004 03:12 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tractor type prop wanted I'm looking around for a wood or metal tractor type prop for my winter Piete project, using a Lycosaur 0-235. Anybody who hasn't converted their dreams into a lovely clock, contact me off line. Thanks-Gordon Bowen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jake Crause" <admin(at)homebuiltairplanes.com>
Subject: Bending Allowances
Date: Oct 22, 2004
report Got a question about bending allowances. Do the drawings of the fittings that need to be bent already take into account bending allowances or do I need to calculate them and adjust the dimensions of the drawings accordingly. Also, is there a spacer of some sort between the cabane fitting and the spar where the fitting does not overlap the spar butt joint strap and the pulley bracket? If so, what is it? Thanks in advance. Jake Crause ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: My Pietenpol Air Camper tires arrived today!!!
Date: Oct 22, 2004
Got home from a business trip today to find a couple of 21" Speedmaster Tires waiting for me..... My garage is SO full I won't be able to roll the fuse far but I WILL be able to roll it before long.... I feel like such an idiot for getting excited over a couple of dumb old motorcycle tires showing up at my doorstep but it almost brought tears to my eyes..... This is SO much fun! Life is good...... Jim in Plano..... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: My Pietenpol Air Camper tires arrived today!!!
Date: Oct 22, 2004
Hey Jim, I know what you mean buddy..... every single order I ever placed (probably over 100) for anything had me counting the minutes until the UPS guy arrived.... even for stupid stuff like a handfull of AN970 washers and a bag of cotter pins. :) DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 7:14 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Pietenpol Air Camper tires arrived today!!! Got home from a business trip today to find a couple of 21" Speedmaster Tires waiting for me..... My garage is SO full I won't be able to roll the fuse far but I WILL be able to roll it before long.... I feel like such an idiot for getting excited over a couple of dumb old motorcycle tires showing up at my doorstep but it almost brought tears to my eyes..... This is SO much fun! Life is good...... Jim in Plano..... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lynn Knoll" <dknoll(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Bending Allowance
Date: Oct 22, 2004
Jake: Tony Bengelis covers this in his book "Sportplane Construction Techniques" by telling us to make the bends first and then the ends are measured to see how much to cut off. Also, he never drilled any holes until after the bends are made. (page 40) Quote from Tony..."There you have it.....a fitting with the correct height and base dimensions." Not a very professional way to make fittings, but they will be accurate...consistently more accurate than many you'd make using the metal working formulas involving bend allowance charts, setback tables and that sort of thing." Regarding the spacer: Look just to the left of the line giving the dimension "3-1/4" between the two end attach holes of the pulley bracket and it calls out 3/32" ply both sides. If I interpret the plan correctly this 3/32" ply would be shaped like a piece of pie...the bottom flush with the spar and the top would be against the spar joint strap. Finally...I hope this helps....and I can't say enough about how much Tony's books have been so helpful to this amateur plane builder. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Re: Bending Allowances
Date: Oct 22, 2004
In my opinion the drawings do not include bend allowances. Also, lots of people have said to make the fitting's a tad bit longer (so they stick out more). I guess it's hard to get the bolts in once the plane is finished. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: Jake Crause To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 6:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bending Allowances Got a question about bending allowances. Do the drawings of the fittings that need to be bent already take into account bending allowances or do I need to calculate them and adjust the dimensions of the drawings accordingly. Also, is there a spacer of some sort between the cabane fitting and the spar where the fitting does not overlap the spar butt joint strap and the pulley bracket? If so, what is it? Thanks in advance. Jake Crause ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 22, 2004
Subject: Re: My Pietenpol Air Camper tires arrived today!!!
Eeexxxcceeelllleeennntt! Keep me appraised! Our learning curve on covering is coming along nicely...I might try to go to the panhandle next week, we'll see. Isn't this great, stay with it and good luck, md ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 22, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: My Pietenpol Air Camper tires arrived today!!!
<001301c4b8ac$4f403470$0100a8c0@Desktop> I wonder what the Plano cops are gonna say....... Clif :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 7:59 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Pietenpol Air Camper tires arrived today!!! Hey Jim, I know what you mean buddy..... every single order I ever placed (probably over 100) for anything had me counting the minutes until the UPS guy arrived.... even for stupid stuff like a handfull of AN970 washers and a bag of cotter pins. :) DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 7:14 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Pietenpol Air Camper tires arrived today!!! Got home from a business trip today to find a couple of 21" Speedmaster Tires waiting for me..... My garage is SO full I won't be able to roll the fuse far but I WILL be able to roll it before long.... I feel like such an idiot for getting excited over a couple of dumb old motorcycle tires showing up at my doorstep but it almost brought tears to my eyes..... This is SO much fun! Life is good...... Jim in Plano..... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <margdick(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Razorback Covering
Date: Oct 23, 2004
List, Looking for info on Razorback covering. Instruction manual and supply sources. Thanks, Dick G. in Ft. Myers, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2004
Subject: [ Galen (Doc) Hutcheson ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Galen (Doc) Hutcheson Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: Biplanes http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/wacopitts@yahoo.com.10.23.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: good price for REAL Pietenpol plans on ebay now
just spotted this auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2496643097&category=26441&sspagename=WDVW ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Loar" <skycarl@buckeye-express.com>
Subject: N 40044 for sale
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Hello pieters,,, I know I haven't been on here much lately,,, though I do enjoy reading all the continuing news about everyones piets. Lately my health has not been what it should to be in the air and money has been tight. So I think it's time to put my plane up for sale. It's about an inch away from being inspected and flown. I had planned on putting it on ebay but I thought I would throw it out in here first. I have some pics on a website,, you can check it out. It is hangered in Blissfield Michigan. That's the lower SE corner of the state. I'll be starting the bids on ebay at $7000 which I feel is reasonable. That's a little less than what I have in it. When things get turned around,, well,, I'll probably start building another one,,, that was most of the fun... Well,,, just wanted to throw this out here before she went on the block. Carl ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Razorback Covering
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Why do you want to use a system that is not very forgiving? A rank amateur can do the heat shrink processes but not Razorback. Razorback is also heavier than cotton and twice as heavy as polyester. You want your airplane to be light and forgiving. Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair A Service Project of Chapter 75 EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick and Marge Gillespie To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 7:14 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Razorback Covering List, Looking for info on Razorback covering. Instruction manual and supply sources. Thanks, Dick G. in Ft. Myers, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Subject: [ Mark Hodgson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Mark Hodgson Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: More Brodhead 2004 http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/mhodgson@bu.edu.08.07.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
now
Subject: Re: good price for REAL Pietenpol plans on ebay now
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Anybody check out the price these things are going for? $96 when I just looked at it. I don't know what Don is charging for plans lately, but I think I only paid him $75 for mine. Jack Really enjoying the delightful flying qualities of my Air Camper > > From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> > Date: 2004/10/25 Mon PM 01:57:18 EDT > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: good price for REAL Pietenpol plans on ebay now > > > just spotted this auction: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2496643097&category=26441&sspagename=WDVW > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jake Crause" <admin(at)homebuiltairplanes.com>
Subject: Bending Allowances
Date: Oct 25, 2004
report Tracy thanks for the reply. After looking at the plans a bit closer and thinking about it a bit longer, I see that you are right. I do plan on adding about 1/2 inch to some of the fittings where it looks like it might be a close fit getting the bolt into the hole due to fabric or other obstructions. Is a 1/2 inch appropriate in most cases anyone? Thanks. Jake -----Original Message----- From: Catdesign [mailto:catdesign(at)intergate.com] Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bending Allowances In my opinion the drawings do not include bend allowances. Also, lots of people have said to make the fitting's a tad bit longer (so they stick out more). I guess it's hard to get the bolts in once the plane is finished. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: Jake Crause Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bending Allowances Got a question about bending allowances. Do the drawings of the fittings that need to be bent already take into account bending allowances or do I need to calculate them and adjust the dimensions of the drawings accordingly. Also, is there a spacer of some sort between the cabane fitting and the spar where the fitting does not overlap the spar butt joint strap and the pulley bracket? If so, what is it? Thanks in advance. Jake Crause ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
"Email List Photo Shares" Available!
Subject: Re: [ Mark Hodgson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Mark, Great pictures! I got a kick out of them. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures(at)matronics.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: [ Mark Hodgson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! > > > A new Email List Photo Share is available: > > Poster: Mark Hodgson > > Lists: Pietenpol-List > > Subject: More Brodhead 2004 > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/mhodgson@bu.edu.08.07.2004/index.html > > > o Main Photo Share Index > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > o Submitting a Photo Share > > If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the > following information along with your email message and files: > > 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: > 2) Your Full Name: > 3) Your Email Address: > 4) One line Subject description: > 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: > 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: > > Email the information above and your files and photos to: > > pictures(at)matronics.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <margdick(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Razorback Covering
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Cy, I bought a hurricane damaged piet. The wings will be recovered with Polyfiber but there's only a couple of small patches to be made in the fuse. I would like to find the best way to repair them and not have to recover the whole fuse. The razorback seems to be in good condition after 20 years and really looks good. If you could provide a source of information, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks, DickG. in Ft. Myers, FL. ----- Original Message ----- From: cgalley To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 2:26 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Razorback Covering Why do you want to use a system that is not very forgiving? A rank amateur can do the heat shrink processes but not Razorback. Razorback is also heavier than cotton and twice as heavy as polyester. You want your airplane to be light and forgiving. Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair A Service Project of Chapter 75 EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick and Marge Gillespie To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 7:14 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Razorback Covering List, Looking for info on Razorback covering. Instruction manual and supply sources. Thanks, Dick G. in Ft. Myers, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: Jimmy Courtney <jbciii5656(at)yahoo.com>
now
Subject: Re: good price for REAL Pietenpol plans on ebay now
Hello! Last year, I bought a complete set of "new" plans from Don Pietenpol for $165.00 including postage. This price included all plans with mods for extended fuselage and the steel tubing fuselage, all with the complete builders and flyers manual. Fair winds to all, Jim Courtney jbciii5656(at)yahoo.com pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net wrote: Anybody check out the price these things are going for? $96 when I just looked at it. I don't know what Don is charging for plans lately, but I think I only paid him $75 for mine. Jack Really enjoying the delightful flying qualities of my Air Camper > > From: Michael D Cuy > Date: 2004/10/25 Mon PM 01:57:18 EDT > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: good price for REAL Pietenpol plans on ebay now > > > just spotted this auction: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2496643097&category=26441&sspagename=WDVW > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: snow skiis
Date: Oct 25, 2004
I was just in Photo share looking at Shawn Wolks' post from last winter, of his Piet on skiis. Are there plans available for building snow skiis? Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
<00d501c4baf0$6378e040$7d81bd3f@dickmarg>
Subject: Re: Razorback Covering
Date: Oct 25, 2004
I sent your request on to rec.aviation.homebuilt where the razorback owner sometimes makes an appearance. They are located in Manila, Arkansas. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick and Marge Gillespie To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 7:06 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Razorback Covering Cy, I bought a hurricane damaged piet. The wings will be recovered with Polyfiber but there's only a couple of small patches to be made in the fuse. I would like to find the best way to repair them and not have to recover the whole fuse. The razorback seems to be in good condition after 20 years and really looks good. If you could provide a source of information, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks, DickG. in Ft. Myers, FL. ----- Original Message ----- From: cgalley To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 2:26 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Razorback Covering ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick and Marge Gillespie To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 7:14 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Razorback Covering List, Looking for info on Razorback covering. Instruction manual and supply sources. Thanks, Dick G. in Ft. Myers, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Subject: Re: mat'l sent
Henry, I suggest that you plan to use the insulation blanket in a "sandwich" assembly between plywood firewall and sheet metal (stainless or galvanized steel). In my case, the original fuselage builder used a 1" thick solid plywood firewall. So for weight savings, I ended up cutting lightening holes in it. So I plan to use a very light gauge sheet metal backing to prevent the ceramic fibers from molting off inside the cabin. Since the ceramic fiber material can compress, I believe it would be natural for it to compress from 1/2 inch down to about 1/4 inch. This should work just fine, but the less you compress it, probably the better job it will do as an insulator. Spacers would help ensure that you don't compress the material excessively. I don't think it's necessary to use an adhesive like liquid nails. Instead, I think screws with large light-weight wachers or even staples would suffice to hold things in place until you can attach your sheet steel firewall. The sheet metal should be designed to permanently clamp the blanket in place and hold it against the wood. The engine mount attach fittings pose a challenge for trimming and fitting the sheet metal firewall, but I expect to have to do some creative bending and attachment in that area to keep as much insulation material against the wood as possible. Keep in mind the intent of the insulation when you are designing your parts and you'll do fine. I hope this helps. I am copying this letter to the Pietenpol email list since there were several who bought the ceramic material from me. Terry B. *********************************************************** In a message dated 10/25/2004 7:54:20 PM Central Standard Time, Borodent writes: > Subj:Re: mat'l sent > Date:10/25/2004 7:54:20 PM Central Standard Time > From:Borodent > To:BARNSTMR > > > > Terry > material arrived > many thanks > Henry Williams > > I have some questions, > Do I take it from the plywood firewood forward; ------ > next: the material - insulation > next: the (Im using stainless) steel > > Do you screw the stainless down to the plywood, or use spacers- to keep the > insulation from compressing excessively. If so what dimension would you want > for the insulatiuon ( 1/4 in? 1/2 in? thick ) > And I guess you just come as close as possible to the engine mounts with the > insulation and stainless. > Would you glue the insulation to the plywood say with liquid nail? > > OR do you have a source, where I can check on the insulation? > Henry W ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: flyin' grandpas
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Mike wrote- >Congratulations, Walt--- you are young for being a grandpa ! Well, I'll show you mine if you show me yours ;o) Our grandson, now 3-1/2, was born when I was 49. Of course, I was 17 and my wife 16 when we got married in 1969. By the grace of God and the patience of my dear wife, we are still together after 35 years and will be till death do us part... I don't take too many unnecessary risks when I go flying, because I always think about that wonderful wife waiting for me at home (and the dog doesn't sleep too well when I'm not there, either ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Shawn Wolk" <shawnwolk(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Snow Skis
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Unless you must build it yourself. There are plenty of old factory built skis available that will work well on a Piet. There's two sets on EBAY right now at reasonable prices. I htink it would be difficult to build skis as light and strong as the factory made stuff. If you must build, make your own tail ski, or wheel penetration tailski. And yes I'm ready for the flying this winter again. Shawn Wolk C-FRAZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Loar" <skycarl@buckeye-express.com>
Subject: web site for my piet
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Here is the website for my piet. http://members.core.com/~skycarl/pietpage12.html Thanks,, Carl Loar ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: snow skis
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Folks; I've thought about, and prepared, my M-19 "Flying Squirrel" for both floats and skis. My thought on the skis was to incorporate a set of used snowboards, but those are quite flexible and pretty large unless you're operating on deep powder snow. There are a couple of photos of skis that I thought I'd pattern mine from, on my website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/floats/ski.jpg and http://www.flysquirrel.net/floats/ski1.jpg if someone just wants to gather ideas. These skis slip onto the same axles as the wheels on your landing gear... NOT penetration skis that go on over the tires. I guess the best thing to do is to fly in to the winter ski deal at Oshkosh to get ideas and take pictures of other ski setups. February, is it? Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Subject: Re: snow skis
Skis...........................................in San Antone....................................... ease off on those Coronas or whatever.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: snow skis
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Corky, Oscar's probably talking about water skiing on the Rio San Antonio. He does love that Riverwalk jazz festival. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 1:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: snow skis Skis...........................................in San Antone....................................... ease off on those Coronas or whatever.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Leading edge
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Mike Cuy, Do you have a scan of your leading edge drawing? I know of a couple of people who are interested in your technique using handrail to form the LE. Thanks, Greg Cardinal Project update: Dale and I have taxied NX18235 under its own power. A very BIG milestone. Just waiting for the final inspection and hoping for a first flight before the weather gets too cold. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: gn-1s.
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Howard, Did Doc ever reply to you? There are several of us around that have GNs. I could probably connect you with somebody if you want to talk about them. Bert Tallahassee FL ----- Original Message ----- From: lanny bissell To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 4:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: gn-1s. Doc, Any GN-1s at Broadhead? I'm new to the list and Pietenpols in general, but I wonder why I never see much about the GN-1 which I understand is a "modern" version of the Piet. Howard Bissell ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: gn-1s.
Hi Bert, Howard, This is one "Doc" but I'm not sure you are addressing me. I see your question was about Piets at Broadhead. I truely don't know since I have never been there. I have only been a member a couple of months. I have heard through this newsgroup that GN-1's do go to Broadhead, but there are others who can tell you much more about that. If I am the wrong "Doc" please forgive my intrusion, but if you are new to the group, welcome and nice having you aboard. I will happily answer any questions I can. Doc --- Bert Conoly wrote: > Howard, Did Doc ever reply to you? > There are several of us around that have GNs. I > could probably connect you with somebody if you > want to talk about them. > > Bert > Tallahassee FL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: lanny bissell > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 4:56 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: gn-1s. > > > Doc, Any GN-1s at Broadhead? I'm new to the list > and Pietenpols in general, but I wonder why I never > see much about the GN-1 which I understand is a > "modern" version of the Piet. > Howard Bissell __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: web site for my piet
Hi Carl, GREAT PICS!!! Thanks for sharing them. Doc --- Carl Loar <skycarl@buckeye-express.com> wrote: > Here is the website for my piet. > http://members.core.com/~skycarl/pietpage12.html > Thanks,, > Carl Loar ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2004
From: Javier Cruz <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: RE:piets near Tulsa
----- Original Message ----- From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gn-1s. > > Hi Bert, Howard, > > This is one "Doc" but I'm not sure you are addressing > me. I see your question was about Piets at Broadhead. > I truely don't know since I have never been there. I > have only been a member a couple of months. I have > heard through this newsgroup that GN-1's do go to > Broadhead, but there are others who can tell you much > more about that. If I am the wrong "Doc" please > forgive my intrusion, but if you are new to the group, > welcome and nice having you aboard. I will happily > answer any questions I can. > > Doc > --- Bert Conoly wrote: > > > Howard, Did Doc ever reply to you? > > There are several of us around that have GNs. I > > could probably connect you with somebody if you > > want to talk about them. > > > > Bert > > Tallahassee FL > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: lanny bissell > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 4:56 PM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: gn-1s. > > > > > > Doc, Any GN-1s at Broadhead? I'm new to the list > > and Pietenpols in general, but I wonder why I never > > see much about the GN-1 which I understand is a > > "modern" version of the Piet. > > Howard Bissell > > > __________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
Subject: Re: gn-1s.
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Hello, I'm sure there are folks out there that have been to Brodhead many times more than I. I don't recall seeing more than one GN-1 there each time I have been. Also I never saw it parked with the Piets but on the other side of the field. I believe I saw a remark somewhere (possibly on the Piet list) by some GN-1 owner saying they didn't feel welcome. This is very unfortunate because IMHO most Piet owners don't feel that way, it is those very vocal few that are the problem. Anyway a trip to Brodhead is well worth it, 99 percent of the people you will meet there are super. Bob B. - Missouri BTW I don't even bother with that other Wisconsin Flyin anymore. ----- Original Message ----- From: Galen Hutcheson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 12:12 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gn-1s. Hi Bert, Howard, This is one "Doc" but I'm not sure you are addressing me. I see your question was about Piets at Broadhead. I truely don't know since I have never been there. I have only been a member a couple of months. I have heard through this newsgroup that GN-1's do go to Broadhead, but there are others who can tell you much more about that. If I am the wrong "Doc" please forgive my intrusion, but if you are new to the group, welcome and nice having you aboard. I will happily answer any questions I can. Doc --- Bert Conoly wrote: > Howard, Did Doc ever reply to you? > There are several of us around that have GNs. I > could probably connect you with somebody if you > want to talk about them. > > Bert > Tallahassee FL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: lanny bissell > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 4:56 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: gn-1s. > > > Doc, Any GN-1s at Broadhead? I'm new to the list > and Pietenpols in general, but I wonder why I never > see much about the GN-1 which I understand is a > "modern" version of the Piet. > Howard Bissell __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Date: Oct 27, 2004
I seem to remember this topic a while back, but does anyone have good suggestions for a light plastic tube that could be glued next to the fuselage side stringer under the covering to run the mag wires up through? I think I'd like to use a conduit type arrangement rather than affixing the wires in case I should ever have to fix or replace them without ripping off the covering. Thanx! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RE:piets near Tulsa
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Not sure what's up with the "piets near Tulsa" subject but if someone's interested, there are several in the area, including at least one GN1 (pic attached and size reduced for quicker D/L). I included a pic of the tail number if someone wants to look up the owner on landings.com Also, try contacting EAA Tulsa Chapter 10: http://www.eaa10.org/index.htm Actually, there's a LONG history of Pietenpol support in the Tulsa (MY hometown) area. Those folks have known about the Pietenpol for a LONG time! Jim in Plano..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Javier Cruz" <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx> Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE:piets near Tulsa > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 12:12 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gn-1s. > > > >> >> Hi Bert, Howard, >> >> This is one "Doc" but I'm not sure you are addressing >> me. I see your question was about Piets at Broadhead. >> I truely don't know since I have never been there. I >> have only been a member a couple of months. I have >> heard through this newsgroup that GN-1's do go to >> Broadhead, but there are others who can tell you much >> more about that. If I am the wrong "Doc" please >> forgive my intrusion, but if you are new to the group, >> welcome and nice having you aboard. I will happily >> answer any questions I can. >> >> Doc >> --- Bert Conoly wrote: >> >> > Howard, Did Doc ever reply to you? >> > There are several of us around that have GNs. I >> > could probably connect you with somebody if you >> > want to talk about them. >> > >> > Bert >> > Tallahassee FL >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: lanny bissell >> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 4:56 PM >> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: gn-1s. >> > >> > >> > Doc, Any GN-1s at Broadhead? I'm new to the list >> > and Pietenpols in general, but I wonder why I never >> > see much about the GN-1 which I understand is a >> > "modern" version of the Piet. >> > Howard Bissell >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Leading edge
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Way to go, Greg and Dale! I hope you can get NX18235 in the air soon. I have about 6 hours now on NX899JP and have flown it comfortably in temps as low as 43 F. As Walt says, Ain't Life Grand! Jack Phillips, Raleigh NC > > From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> > Date: 2004/10/26 Tue PM 07:28:02 EDT > To: > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge > > Mike Cuy, > > Do you have a scan of your leading edge drawing? I know of a couple of people who are interested in your technique using handrail to form the LE. > > Thanks, > > Greg Cardinal > > Project update: Dale and I have taxied NX18235 under its own power. A very BIG milestone. Just waiting for the final inspection and hoping for a first flight before the weather gets too cold. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: plastic conduit
Date: Oct 27, 2004
go here and you will see a picture of the conduit I used http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/09-05-04.htm I got it from Tap Plastics http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid142&PHPSESSID20041027075604198496889 $4 for a 6' piece of 3/4" square tubing. I secured it by drilling and bolting it to the side of the fuse with countersink screws and lock nuts. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 6:13 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: I seem to remember this topic a while back, but does anyone have good suggestions for a light plastic tube that could be glued next to the fuselage side stringer under the covering to run the mag wires up through? I think I'd like to use a conduit type arrangement rather than affixing the wires in case I should ever have to fix or replace them without ripping off the covering. Thanx! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: gn-1s.
Hi Bob, I agree with you. I feel there is no room (for me anyway) for short-sightedness (for lack of a better term) in running down someone else's airplane for any reason (other than gross safety concerns and those comments should be made only with adequate documentation and not opinion). If I choose to build a Pietenpol, and I choose to make safe modifications, based on many years of aviation experience and research, then it is my right to do so. I would not befriend anyone who would run-down someone else's airplane just because it didn't meet the expectations of of what that person(s) thought an airplane should or should not look like or represent. I do hope that this attitude does not prevail in this group of what seems like a very decent bunch of aircraft builders and pilots. (Sorry, but I just felt like preaching today). I hope not to offend anyone, but I have seen this attitude many times in the last 30 plus years of aviation I have enjoyed. With respect to all, Doc --- baileys wrote: > Hello, > > I'm sure there are folks out there that have been to > Brodhead many times more than I. I don't recall > seeing more than one GN-1 there each time I have > been. Also I never saw it parked with the Piets but > on the other side of the field. > I believe I saw a remark somewhere (possibly on the > Piet list) by some GN-1 owner saying they didn't > feel welcome. This is very unfortunate because IMHO > most Piet owners don't feel that way, it is those > very vocal few that are the problem. Anyway a trip > to Brodhead is well worth it, 99 percent of the > people you will meet there are super. > > Bob B. - Missouri > > BTW I don't even bother with that other Wisconsin > Flyin anymore. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Galen Hutcheson > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 12:12 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gn-1s. > > > Hutcheson > > Hi Bert, Howard, > > This is one "Doc" but I'm not sure you are > addressing > me. I see your question was about Piets at > Broadhead. > I truely don't know since I have never been > there. I > have only been a member a couple of months. I > have > heard through this newsgroup that GN-1's do go to > Broadhead, but there are others who can tell you > much > more about that. If I am the wrong "Doc" please > forgive my intrusion, but if you are new to the > group, > welcome and nice having you aboard. I will > happily > answer any questions I can. > > Doc > --- Bert Conoly wrote: > > > Howard, Did Doc ever reply to you? > > There are several of us around that have GNs. I > > could probably connect you with somebody if you > > want to talk about them. > > > > Bert > > Tallahassee FL > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: lanny bissell > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 4:56 PM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: gn-1s. > > > > > > Doc, Any GN-1s at Broadhead? I'm new to the > list > > and Pietenpols in general, but I wonder why I > never > > see much about the GN-1 which I understand is a > > "modern" version of the Piet. > > Howard Bissell > > > > > __________________________________ > finish. > > > > > ================================================ > ================================================ > ================================================ > ================================================ > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: GN-1s
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Galen wrote- >This is one "Doc" but I'm not sure you are addressing me. >I see your question was about Piets at Broadhead. I truely >don't know since I have never been there. >I have heard through this newsgroup that GN-1's do go to >Broadhead, but there are others who can tell you much >more about that. If I am the wrong "Doc"... Yes, you're the wrong "Doc". He's no doubt referring to Doc Mosher, who is/was also on this list, and who maintains a really nifty listing of Piets, Piet owners, N-numbers, and related information. The list is periodically updated and I believe it does include Sky Scouts and GN-1s if they are recorded and the data is readily available. And Doc frequents the Brodhead event since he lives up that way (Oshkosh, I believe). There has been some hesitancy on the part of some, to recognize GN-1s as belonging to the Pietenpol group. Most, however, are here to have a good time building and flying Piets, their offspring, and reasonable facsimiles thereof, while still respecting the Pietenpol family and their traditional ownership of the marque. PS to Doc Mosher: be sure to change the next directory listing to show me as the new owner of NX41CC!! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: SKETCH attachment here----- Leading edge
Greg-- here you go. Also included the trailing edge idea I used. Mike PS-- Glad you and Dale are getting close !!!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: GN-1s
I thought there was probably another (or more) "Doc" out there, I just hadn't seen him (her) as yet. :) I responded because I wasn't for sure and wanted to be friendly. I do respect the Pietenpol markee and wouldn't expect a very differently built airplane to be called a Pietenpol. I haven't heard anyone call the GN-1 anything but the GN-1. I could be mistaken of course. My "Piet" is going to have some modifications which to me are minor but to others may seem more so. The basic design, though, is still a Piet but with enough dis-similarities to be somewhat unique. I am encorporating the things that I have found great about different airplanes I have flown, things that I found to make some airplanes more unique than others. I may not end up with a "Piet" by traditional values, but down, deep inside, it will still be a "Piet" if nothing more than pure genetic. Doc (the new guy) --- Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > Galen wrote- > > >This is one "Doc" but I'm not sure you are > addressing me. > >I see your question was about Piets at Broadhead. > I truely > >don't know since I have never been there. > >I have heard through this newsgroup that GN-1's do > go to > >Broadhead, but there are others who can tell you > much > >more about that. If I am the wrong "Doc"... > > Yes, you're the wrong "Doc". He's no doubt > referring to Doc Mosher, who > is/was also on this list, and who maintains a really > nifty listing of Piets, > Piet owners, N-numbers, and related information. > The list is periodically > updated and I believe it does include Sky Scouts and > GN-1s if they are > recorded and the data is readily available. And Doc > frequents the Brodhead > event since he lives up that way (Oshkosh, I > believe). > > There has been some hesitancy on the part of some, > to recognize GN-1s as > belonging to the Pietenpol group. Most, however, > are here to have a good > time building and flying Piets, their offspring, and > reasonable facsimiles > thereof, while still respecting the Pietenpol family > and their traditional > ownership of the marque. > > PS to Doc Mosher: be sure to change the next > directory listing to show me as > the new owner of NX41CC!! > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Subject: Pietenpol Model
Group, My nephew is in gradeschool, and is doing a science project on the Pietenpol Airplane. He is looking for an inexpensive model to build, and information to write a report. I have directed him to the Family Pietenpol Web site, and also tried to impress him with the wonderful comradery that this design has brought upon the generations, but I can't find a model for him to build. Does anyone know of where a model of a Pietenpol Airplane can be had ? Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dmott9(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Model
In a message dated 10/27/04 9:14:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Rcaprd(at)aol.com writes: > My nephew is in gradeschool, and is doing a science project on the Pietenpol > Airplane. He is looking for an inexpensive model to build, and information > to > write a report. I have directed him to the Family Pietenpol Web site, and > also tried to impress him with the wonderful comradery that this design has > brought upon the generations, but I can't find a model for him to build. > Does > anyone know of where a model of a Pietenpol Airplane can be had There is/was a Pietenpol cardmodel on the www.fiddlersgreen.com site. Light Aircraft from Fiddlers Green There is a free J3 Piper Cub download: The Piper Cub Free downloadable cardmodel model I have built many of them, in different sizes, using paper from 8.5" x 11" to 3" x 5" card stock. There is also a balsa model at : House of Balsa Pietenpol Kit - Kit (ID: 1441), also Peck sells one PECK PP001. Retail price: $11.88. I believe DJ also has plans for a 1/7 scale electirc powered RC Pietenpol. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com>
Subject: Re: Leading edge
Date: Oct 27, 2004
A personal thought on the leading edge material. I went to our local home center (Menards) and purchased a piece called a brick molding. It goes on a house at the bottom of the siding above where a brick facing starts. It is available in long pieces. One piece will do a wing and the center section. It is finger jointed clear pine. Although it is a strange shape, it is large enough that a couple passes through the table saw and use of a disk sander produced a very respectable leading edge. Since it is for exterior use I assume the glue in the finger joints is water proof. Once the leading edge is bolted on and covered with aluminum or plywood, a finger joint couldn't separate if it tried. My project is not completed, but the leading edge is in place and is going to work fine Carol and Ralph Raymond ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <twinboom(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol Model
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Chuck, On any given day you can usually find a "Peanut Scale" model on E-Bay. That would be a small rubber band powered model you build much like the real model. I think it has 26" WS, and you wind it up and off it goes. A very nice plane covered with tissue after the stick construction is finished. Chuck, I decided to look before posting, and here you go. Found one..... 5928963200. Go to Ebay and paste this number in and it is just what you are looking for. Doug Blackburn Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn Yucaipa California www.inlandsloperebels.com W.W. conversion manual, #3202,#5782 www.flycorvair.com >From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Model >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:13:23 EDT > > >Group, >My nephew is in gradeschool, and is doing a science project on the >Pietenpol >Airplane. He is looking for an inexpensive model to build, and information >to >write a report. I have directed him to the Family Pietenpol Web site, and >also tried to impress him with the wonderful comradery that this design has >brought upon the generations, but I can't find a model for him to build. >Does >anyone know of where a model of a Pietenpol Airplane can be had ? > >Chuck Gantzer >NX770CG > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Model
Date: Oct 27, 2004
I have a set of 1/7 scael plans I drew up a couple years ago for an electric RC version. email me off list and I'll email them to you if you'd like. DJ djv(at)imagedv.com _ ----- Original Message ----- From: "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <twinboom(at)msn.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Model > > Chuck, > On any given day you can usually find a "Peanut Scale" model on E-Bay. > That would be a small rubber band powered model you build much like the real > model. I think it has 26" WS, and you wind it up and off it goes. A very > nice plane covered with tissue after the stick construction is finished. > Chuck, I decided to look before posting, and here you go. Found one..... > 5928963200. Go to Ebay and paste this number in and it is just what you are > looking for. > > Doug Blackburn > > > Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn > Yucaipa California > www.inlandsloperebels.com > W.W. conversion manual, #3202,#5782 www.flycorvair.com > > > >From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Model > >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:13:23 EDT > > > > > >Group, > >My nephew is in gradeschool, and is doing a science project on the > >Pietenpol > >Airplane. He is looking for an inexpensive model to build, and information > >to > >write a report. I have directed him to the Family Pietenpol Web site, and > >also tried to impress him with the wonderful comradery that this design has > >brought upon the generations, but I can't find a model for him to build. > >Does > >anyone know of where a model of a Pietenpol Airplane can be had ? > > > >Chuck Gantzer > >NX770CG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Model
Chuck, I've a bunch of spruce left unused from Repiet. If someone would scale it down and give me a bill of materials I'd be happy to furnish it for the project. Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Model
Date: Oct 28, 2004
Chuck, Dumas Models has a pretty accurate Piet for about $60.00 (30" wing span). Probably too expensive for him though. Sooo...go to ebay use the search for "Pietenpol." Normally they have "Peanut Scale" Piets for sale. From what I've seen they go for about 13-14 bucks. Stacy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Model
Date: Oct 28, 2004
Yep! I forgot about those card models in my other post. They're pretty darn cool, be great for the kids. BTW, I found a Wells Fargo Bank on Fiddler's too. By coincidence it's based on the one in Columbia, CA...I go there every time I'm back home in CA. There's a GREAT fly-in campground in Columbia (O22) if anyone's ever in CA I highly recommend you stop there. Especially in a Piet (has grass strip)! Stacy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Model
Date: Oct 28, 2004
Hi Chuck, Peck Polymers makes a "Peanut Scale" (13" wingspan) rubber band powered flying model of a Pietenpol. Check out www.peck-polymers.com and click on kits, then peanut scale. Current price is $12.95. It is a good kit (i've got one, but haven't built it yet) with high quality balsa. Jack NX899JP > > From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com > Date: 2004/10/27 Wed PM 09:13:23 EDT > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Model > > > Group, > My nephew is in gradeschool, and is doing a science project on the Pietenpol > Airplane. He is looking for an inexpensive model to build, and information to > write a report. I have directed him to the Family Pietenpol Web site, and > also tried to impress him with the wonderful comradery that this design has > brought upon the generations, but I can't find a model for him to build. Does > anyone know of where a model of a Pietenpol Airplane can be had ? > > Chuck Gantzer > NX770CG > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Model
Date: Oct 28, 2004
Chuck, If you can't find the Peck kit locally (I kinda know what that answer will be -- it's not R/C! ;-) -- check on the Penn Valley Hobby Center website for it -- good prices & wonderful service, just like an old fashioned hobby shop (or a Piet! ;-) Mike C. Pretty Prairie, KS ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Model > > Group, > My nephew is in gradeschool, and is doing a science project on the Pietenpol > Airplane. He is looking for an inexpensive model to build, and information to > write a report. I have directed him to the Family Pietenpol Web site, and > also tried to impress him with the wonderful comradery that this design has > brought upon the generations, but I can't find a model for him to build. Does > anyone know of where a model of a Pietenpol Airplane can be had ? > > Chuck Gantzer > NX770CG > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2004
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Pulleys, etc
Hello, I need to know what kind of pulley (part number if possible, please) is used for the control system. Also, I think most of you are using 1/8 cable for the drag/anti drag wires and for the flying wires. In my plans is indicated 3/32, something wrong about that? If I choose 1/8, could be 7X19 or should be 1X19? Thanks to all. Santiago Morete --------------------------------- Encontr ms informacin aqu. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2004
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Snow Skis
How are these skis listed on ebay? I searched on "aircraft skis" and got nothing. Jim Ash > Unless you must build it yourself. There are plenty of old factory > built skis available that will work well on a Piet. There's two sets on > EBAY right now at reasonable prices. I htink it would be difficult to > build skis as light and strong as the factory made stuff. If you must > build, make your own tail ski, or wheel penetration tailski. > And yes I'm ready for the flying this winter again. > >Shawn Wolk >C-FRAZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Pulleys, etc
Santiago-- I used 1/8" cables for the drag and anti drag wires w/ turnbuckles and also for the X wires that go between the lift struts. From what I have seen most builders are using this size for these applications. Some also go with the 1/8" for control cables but I went with the plans and used 3/32" for all of those----except for the short runs from the stick to the elevator bellcrank, as per plans. Pullies can be had in nylon, plastic, phenolic resin, with bearings, without bearings. You just need to look in a Wicks or Aircraft Spruce cat. to find the ones you want to use that accept the cable diameter that you will be using. Mike C. PS--- the Tony Bingelis books tell which cables to use to what applications----like strands, etc. Also I am a firm believer that you should not use stainless cables for anything that will experience bends around pullies. Only galvanized. For fixed, stationary cables it is fine to use stainless. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2004
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Pulleys,etc
Thanks Mike. I have read that 1/8 1x19 should be used with swaged end terminals and you can't form it around a thimble. Is that correct? If it is, is not an option for me (costs!!) Saludos desde Argentina Santiago Morete --------------------------------- Encontr ms informacin aqu. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pulleys,etc
Date: Oct 29, 2004
Hola Sanitago, You can form 1/8" 1x19 cable around a thimble, but it is difficult. That's what I used for my drag and anti-drag wires in the wings and for the undercarriage brading wires (I used the straight-axle, wire wheel design). I used standard thimbles and nicopress fittings. The 7 x 19 stuff is nearly as strong and much easier to work with. If you use the -16 sized turnbuckles, the turnbuckles will break before the 7x19 cable will. If I were to do it over I would use 7x19. Jack Phillips NX899JP > > From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar> > Date: 2004/10/29 Fri PM 01:38:07 EDT > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys,etc > > Thanks Mike. I have read that 1/8 1x19 should be used with > swaged end terminals and you can't form it around a thimble. Is that correct? If it is, is not an option for me (costs!!) > Saludos desde Argentina > > Santiago Morete > > > --------------------------------- > Encontr ms informacin aqu. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2004
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Pulleys, etc
Thanks Jack! What did you used (or recommends me) for the flying wires? I'm about to buy cables, turnbuckles, etc. It is common practice to use -16 turnbuckles whit 1/8 cable or should I use -22? Gracias. Santiago --------------------------------- Encontr ms informacin aqu. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doyle Combs" <dcombs(at)ltex.net>
Subject: Re: Pulleys, etc
Date: Oct 29, 2004
Santiago, de donde es usted? Su ingles is perfecto. Estoy listo volar un version de un Pietenpol. Estoy trabajando en la pista. Mi email es: dcombs(at)Ltex.net. Escribemi, por favor in espanol. I necisito la practica. Adios and gracios. Saludos. Doyle ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 3:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys, etc Thanks Jack! What did you used (or recommends me) for the flying wires? I'm about to buy cables, turnbuckles, etc. It is common practice to use -16 turnbuckles whit 1/8 cable or should I use -22? Gracias. Santiago Encontr=E1 m=E1s informaci=F3n aqu=ED. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Pulleys, etc
Date: Oct 29, 2004
Santiago, Use the -22 turnbuckles with the 1/8 cable. I would also recommend performing a pull test on your cable assemblies. The thimbles have a tendency to deform under load which would require readjustment after they've been in service for awhile. Pull testing will deform the thimbles prior to installing them on the airplane and they won't need readjustment. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 5:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys, etc Thanks Jack! What did you used (or recommends me) for the flying wires? I'm about to buy cables, turnbuckles, etc. It is common practice to use -16 turnbuckles whit 1/8 cable or should I use -22? Gracias. Santiago Encontr=E1 m=E1s informaci=F3n aqu=ED. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Green" <mmml(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Metalwork kit
Date: Oct 30, 2004
Has anyone out there used a Aviation Metalcraft metalwork kit for thr Piet? If so what are they like? Just came across them on the web and they look perfect for anyone thats as lazy as I am. Here is the link. They don't look too bad.
http://www.aviationmetalcraft.co.uk/index.htm Thanx Mike Green Romsey Victoria AUSTRALIA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pulleys, etc
Date: Oct 30, 2004
>From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys, etc >Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:23:08 -0300 (ART) > >Thanks Jack! >What did you used (or recommends me) for the flying wires? I'm about to buy >cables, turnbuckles, etc. It is common practice to use -16 turnbuckles >whit 1/8 cable or should I use -22? Gracias. > >Santiago > > >--------------------------------- >lugar. > Encontr ms informacin aqu. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Antonio A. Racioppi" <chopo(at)adinet.com.uy>
Subject: Pulleys, etc
Date: Oct 30, 2004
Hola a Todos Mi nombre es Antonio Racioppi, vivo en Mercedes, Soriano, Uruguay, estoy construyendo un Pietenpol desde hace ya dos aos y estoy leyendo sus correos desde ese entonces. He aprendido mucho de ustedes, les agradezco mucho. Ya que Doyle ha pedido que escriba en espaol he decidido hacerlo y ponerme en contacto, ya que mi ingls es un poco malo. Saludos Antonio Hello to All My name is Antonio Racioppi, I live in Mercedes, Soriano, Uruguay, I am building a Pietenpol for already two years and I am reading its mail then from that. I have learned much of you, I thank them a lot. Since Doyle has requested that writes in Spanish I have decided to make it and to put on in contact, since my English is a little bad. Greetings Antonio -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]En nombre de Doyle Combs Enviado el: Viernes, 29 de Octubre de 2004 09:47 a.m. Para: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Asunto: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys, etc Santiago, de donde es usted? Su ingles is perfecto. Estoy listo volar un version de un Pietenpol. Estoy trabajando en la pista. Mi email es: dcombs(at)Ltex.net. Escribemi, por favor in espanol. I necisito la practica. Adios and gracios. Saludos. Doyle ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 3:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys, etc Thanks Jack! What did you used (or recommends me) for the flying wires? I'm about to buy cables, turnbuckles, etc. It is common practice to use -16 turnbuckles whit 1/8 cable or should I use -22? Gracias. Santiago lugar. Encontr ms informacin aqu. --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Antonio A. Racioppi" <chopo(at)adinet.com.uy>
Subject: Metalwork kit
Date: Oct 30, 2004
Hola Santiago: Estoy en Mercedes, Uruguay, tambin construyendo un Piet. Tengo tus mismo problemas por los materiales pero lo estoy subsanando con alternativos. Saludos Antonio A. Racioppi Mercedes Soriano Uruguay --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doyle Combs" <dcombs(at)ltex.net>
Subject: Re: Pulleys, etc
Date: Oct 29, 2004
Antonio, usa su ingles en el net. Los miembros son muy buenos hombres y ellos van a interder su mensaje con poca ayuda. Es un placer conocerle y si usted me da su email, voy a escribirle solo y n uso el net por cortesia. Mi Piet esta lista para volar. Necisito un instructor que tiene tiempo en un Piet. Tambien, necisito una pista que estoy construyendo ahora. Otra vez, gracias por su participacion en el Piet net. Adios and Saludos. Doyle ----- Original Message ----- From: Antonio A. Racioppi To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 6:48 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys, etc Hola a Todos Mi nombre es Antonio Racioppi, vivo en Mercedes, Soriano, Uruguay, estoy construyendo un Pietenpol desde hace ya dos a=F1os y estoy leyendo sus correos desde ese entonces. He aprendido mucho de ustedes, les agradezco mucho. Ya que Doyle ha pedido que escriba en espa=F1ol he decidido hacerlo y ponerme en contacto, ya que mi ingl=E9s es un poco malo. Saludos Antonio Hello to All My name is Antonio Racioppi, I live in Mercedes, Soriano, Uruguay, I am building a Pietenpol for already two years and I am reading its mail then from that. I have learned much of you, I thank them a lot. Since Doyle has requested that writes in Spanish I have decided to make it and to put on in contact, since my English is a little bad. Greetings Antonio -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]En nombre de Doyle Combs Enviado el: Viernes, 29 de Octubre de 2004 09:47 a.m. Para: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Asunto: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys, etc Santiago, de donde es usted? Su ingles is perfecto. Estoy listo volar un version de un Pietenpol. Estoy trabajando en la pista. Mi email es: dcombs(at)Ltex.net. Escribemi, por favor in espanol. I necisito la practica. Adios and gracios. Saludos. Doyle ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 3:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys, etc Thanks Jack! What did you used (or recommends me) for the flying wires? I'm about to buy cables, turnbuckles, etc. It is common practice to use -16 turnbuckles whit 1/8 cable or should I use -22? Gracias. Santiago Encontr=E1 m=E1s informaci=F3n aqu=ED. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 2004
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pulleys, etc
DNA: do not archive Its-Bogus: do not forward to list --- MIME Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting. NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be informed of the potential problem with their system as soon as possible. --- MIME Errors --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 2004
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: My Pietenpol Air Camper tires arrived today!!!
No Jim, we are not idiots, just big kids. I felt the same way about the J-3 tailwheel leaf spring I got off ebay two days ago. Kind for like waiting for that balsa order to fix my U-Control airplane back in junior high school. (Sure am spending a lot more on these orders now than I did back in the good old days). Rick H wrote: > > > Got home from a business trip today to find a couple of 21" Speedmaster > Tires waiting for me..... > > My garage is SO full I won't be able to roll the fuse far but I WILL be able > to roll it before long.... > > I feel like such an idiot for getting excited over a couple of dumb old > motorcycle tires showing up at my doorstep but it almost brought tears to my > eyes..... > > This is SO much fun! > > Life is good...... > > Jim in Plano..... > -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 30, 2004
Subject: Tac Cable
Pieters, Have a new 60" tac drive cable. Was too short for my Repiet, needed 72" which I bought. Anyone in need of the 60" is welcome to it for shipping costs. Corky in La ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 31, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: "Skinny Piet"
Hello Gang, Just for curosity sake, has anyone tried or even considered a little wider fuselage for that skinny little Piet. Surely in all the hundreds of Piets built or started, at least someone has thought about it or maybe even done it. Say maybe 2" or so at the most. That would make for a lot more squirming around room inside the cockpit on those long voyages cross country...you know, with those long range fuel tanks installed. I realize that everything would have to be sized up to accomodate the change and there would be some extra weight, but it's an interesting thought. The rear cockpit on the Piet is going to be about as wide as my 1940 Porterfield, and it sure was a little tight for comfort. Doc __________________________________ Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: "Skinny Piet"
Date: Nov 01, 2004
Hi Doc, A few thoughts on widening the fuselage. I did that on my Pietenpol, and if I were to do it over I would still make it wider than plans. I widened mine by 1", making it 25" wide. Mine is the long fuselage version. I'm 6'2" and 200 lbs and felt I needed the extra room in the cockpit. I have flown short fuselage, standard width Piets, and they are just a little too tight for me. There are downsides to widening it, though. They are: 1. Weight. Long fuselage Piets tend to be heavier than standrd length Piets, most weighing in around 700 to 750 lbs according to Doc Mosher's survey at Brodhead a few years ago. Making it wider adds more weight. Mine weighs 735 lbs, which is a tad over 100 lbs heavier than Mike Cuy's. It shows in its climb performance. 2. Cost. Ol' Bernard knew what he was doing, designing the plane to be as economical as possible. the stand width allows a 48" sheet of plywood to be plit lengthwise and make two pieces that will fitthe fuselage. Making it any wider requires two sheets, with lots of waste. 3. Complexity. Widening the fuselage means the cabane struts are spaced further apart, which requires modification to the wing. One little change snowballs into several changes, rippling throughout the airframe. As I can recall, those changes included: a. Making the centersection spar longer (I went ahead and made mine 6" longer to give me more fuel capacity) b. Making the fuselage taller, to keep the proportions with the wider fuselage (not a bad thing - it gives more room in the instrument panel) Again, if I had it to do over, I would still make it wider. Just realize there are downsides to it, most notably weight. Sure makes it nice on those cold mornings when I have to wear a heavy leather jacket to fly it comfortably, though. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galen Hutcheson Subject: Pietenpol-List: "Skinny Piet" Hello Gang, Just for curosity sake, has anyone tried or even considered a little wider fuselage for that skinny little Piet. Surely in all the hundreds of Piets built or started, at least someone has thought about it or maybe even done it. Say maybe 2" or so at the most. That would make for a lot more squirming around room inside the cockpit on those long voyages cross country...you know, with those long range fuel tanks installed. I realize that everything would have to be sized up to accomodate the change and there would be some extra weight, but it's an interesting thought. The rear cockpit on the Piet is going to be about as wide as my 1940 Porterfield, and it sure was a little tight for comfort. Doc __________________________________ Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: "Skinny Piet"
Hi Jack, That was a well written response. I just knew that someone had to have widened the fuselage some over the years. I realized it would add some weight, but with enough horsepower, that shouldn't be too much of a problem. I am now fitting up my fuselage halves and I formed them up on 26" instead of the 24" called for in the plans. I tapered everything back accordingly. It looks good and proportional to other aircraft I have seen. I plan to adjust the centersection to accomodate the wider cabane strut, ect. I am going to ponder over this a couple of days before I decide whether to do it or not, but, right now I'm leaning toward the wider model. I plan to do a lot of cross country flying and don't like being cramped up. Plus, I like to carry some baggage with me. I just talked to a very good friend of mine by the name of Dennis Yates from Illinois. I know he has been to Broadhead many times and he said he has seen widened Piets before too. Again Jack, thanks for your response. Doc --- Jack Phillips wrote: > Phillips" > > Hi Doc, > > A few thoughts on widening the fuselage. I did that > on my Pietenpol, and if > I were to do it over I would still make it wider > than plans. I widened mine > by 1", making it 25" wide. Mine is the long > fuselage version. I'm 6'2" and > 200 lbs and felt I needed the extra room in the > cockpit. I have flown short > fuselage, standard width Piets, and they are just a > little too tight for me. > > There are downsides to widening it, though. They > are: > > 1. Weight. Long fuselage Piets tend to be heavier > than standrd length > Piets, most weighing in around 700 to 750 lbs > according to Doc Mosher's > survey at Brodhead a few years ago. Making it wider > adds more weight. Mine > weighs 735 lbs, which is a tad over 100 lbs heavier > than Mike Cuy's. It > shows in its climb performance. > > 2. Cost. Ol' Bernard knew what he was doing, > designing the plane to be as > economical as possible. the stand width allows a > 48" sheet of plywood to be > plit lengthwise and make two pieces that will fitthe > fuselage. Making it > any wider requires two sheets, with lots of waste. > > 3. Complexity. Widening the fuselage means the > cabane struts are spaced > further apart, which requires modification to the > wing. One little change > snowballs into several changes, rippling throughout > the airframe. As I can > recall, those changes included: > > a. Making the centersection spar longer (I went > ahead and made mine 6" > longer to give me more fuel capacity) > b. Making the fuselage taller, to keep the > proportions with the wider > fuselage (not a bad thing - it gives more room in > the instrument panel) > > Again, if I had it to do over, I would still make it > wider. Just realize > there are downsides to it, most notably weight. > Sure makes it nice on those > cold mornings when I have to wear a heavy leather > jacket to fly it > comfortably, though. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] > On Behalf Of Galen > Hutcheson > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 2:37 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: "Skinny Piet" > > Hutcheson > > Hello Gang, > > Just for curosity sake, has anyone tried or even > considered a little wider fuselage for that skinny > little Piet. Surely in all the hundreds of Piets > built > or started, at least someone has thought about it or > maybe even done it. Say maybe 2" or so at the most. > That would make for a lot more squirming around room > inside the cockpit on those long voyages cross > country...you know, with those long range fuel tanks > installed. I realize that everything would have to > be > sized up to accomodate the change and there would be > some extra weight, but it's an interesting thought. > The rear cockpit on the Piet is going to be about as > wide as my 1940 Porterfield, and it sure was a > little > tight for comfort. > > Doc > > > > __________________________________ > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Click on the > this > by the > Admin. > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2004
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: "Skinny Piet"
I think Corky and Max Davis have built their airplanes wider. I saw some photos of Corky's re-piet and it looks great and like it is a lot roomier. I wonder how some of the things like the aileron cables come out in relation to the backside of the instrument panel. Also does this end up lengthening your rudder bar and widen your leg stance? How about the angles on your engine mount structure? How does it affect the loads in the tubing? Do you assume they increase and go with a heavier wall thickness. More added to overall weight. Hmm...is it still a Piet? I think I'll stick to the plans on mine. -- Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: "Skinny Piet"
Date: Nov 01, 2004
Doc, I built my Pietenpol with the fuselage 2" wider from the firewall aft to the rear instrument panel, and tapered the sides from there to the tailpost . The fuselage length was unchanged from Orrin Hoopman's drawings for the "Improved Air Camper". On the 15th of this month, I shall fly it to commemorate the 34th anniversary of its first flight, weather permitting. Over the years some of these flights have been pretty chilly here in Alberta, Canada--and I have appreciated the ability to wear lots of clothing due to the widened cockpit. It seems the widening of the fuselage has not resulted in much weight increase. My Piet weighed 630 pounds dry in 1985 after recovering. A C85-8 engine and wooden propeller were installed together with an absolute minimum of fixed equipment. Today, it is a little heavier with a C85-12 engine and some very lightweight seat cushions to ease my old bones--but is still lighter than several other Piets in our area. If I were to build another (which I won't), I'd go with the widened fuselage. Cheers, Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: "Skinny Piet"
Hi Terry, Thanks for your response. I don't know if I will end up with a "Piet" or not, but I hope to end up with an airplane I can enjoy and use. I am kind of building my "dream" airplane so I want to make it fit many of the things I have always wanted in an airplane. The cables you mentioned can be engineered without too much bother. Of course the angles of the engine mount will be different but the moment arm of the force the engine exerts on the mount is going to be the same so I think the same guage will work. The Piet is way over built for strength so there is plenty of room for inovation. There would be a little wider stance on the rudder bar, but it would be about the same as I had with the Bird biplane (which also had a rudder bar) and that was actually real comfortable. The top fuselage cowlings will have to be sized up but that is what I had planed to do anyway. I have flown aircraft long distances that were cramped and uncomfortable and by the time you get to where your are going you are just worn out. The Aeronica Champ and the Chief are examples where the fuselage was widened with good results. My adding 2" in width to the Piet certainly isn't as drastic a change as in the Aeronicas. Each person has his (her) own individual likes and dislikes about what an airplane should be and since I plan to build only one airplane I want to make it as much to my liking as I can. Again, thanks for your response. Doc --- BARNSTMR(at)aol.com wrote: > BARNSTMR(at)aol.com > > I think Corky and Max Davis have built their > airplanes wider. I saw some photos of Corky's > re-piet and it looks great and like it is a lot > roomier. I wonder how some of the things like the > aileron cables come out in relation to the backside > of the instrument panel. Also does this end up > lengthening your rudder bar and widen your leg > stance? How about the angles on your engine mount > structure? How does it affect the loads in the > tubing? Do you assume they increase and go with a > heavier wall thickness. More added to overall > weight. Hmm...is it still a Piet? I think I'll > stick to the plans on mine. > -- > Terry L. Bowden > ph 254-715-4773 > fax 254-853-3805 > > > > > > > Click on the > this > by the > Admin. > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: "Skinny Piet"
Hi Graham, That was a great response! It seems like there are several wider Piets out there. I agree with everything you wrote about the needs for a wider fuselage. The narrow fuselage is alright if you are just going to go out and play in the air or take short trips in, but if you are going to do some serious traveling (and I plan to follow my old "barnstorming" routes) you need something more useful. I think I too will widen the fuselage the 2" and taper everything back proportionally. I can't see it adding all that much extra weight and since I'm not building an ultralite anyway, I want to make this little airplane useful. Again, thanks for your wonderful response. Doc --- Graham Hansen <grhans@cable-lynx.net> wrote: > Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net> > > Doc, > > I built my Pietenpol with the fuselage 2" wider from > the firewall aft to the > rear instrument panel, and tapered the sides from > there to the tailpost . > The fuselage length was unchanged from Orrin > Hoopman's drawings for the > "Improved Air Camper". > > On the 15th of this month, I shall fly it to > commemorate the 34th > anniversary of its first flight, weather permitting. > Over the years some of > these flights have been pretty chilly here in > Alberta, Canada--and I have > appreciated the ability to wear lots of clothing due > to the widened cockpit. > > It seems the widening of the fuselage has not > resulted in much weight > increase. My Piet weighed 630 pounds dry in 1985 > after recovering. A C85-8 > engine and wooden propeller were installed together > with an absolute minimum > of fixed equipment. Today, it is a little heavier > with a C85-12 engine and > some very lightweight seat cushions to ease my old > bones--but is still > lighter than several other Piets in our area. > > If I were to build another (which I won't), I'd go > with the widened > fuselage. > > Cheers, > > Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) > > > > > > > Click on the > this > by the > Admin. > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: Aluminum spars
Date: Nov 01, 2004
Someone (Ted Brusseau???) wrote an article in the latest Brodhead Pietenpol Association Newsletter about a plans change to aluminum spars and the attendant problems that an "improvement" to the plans can cause. Seems like we've been fighting this battle for years and years. Anyway..... I have a friend who has built a one-piece wing and he used aluminum spars so, after reading the article, he's really concerned. He has no computer so I am writing on his behalf. Will the author of the article please contact me directly to answer some questions regarding the spar material that was used in the Piet (NOT) that you tested. Thanks- Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 01, 2004
Subject: Piet Photos
Fellow Piet Builders: I've got a dandy workbench built, I've got an engine (Model A -- to be rebuilt), wing ribs from Charlie Rubecks, and enough spruce and ply to build the fuselage. And so I'm going to start actually gluing wood together in the next few days. I'm also going to be writing a series of articles about the project as it progresses for a regional monthly magazine serving the Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota area (The Tapestry published in Lansing, Iowa). In the initial article I'm going to talk about the history of the plane and BHP and I'd also like to include some photos of completed Pietenpols -- especially in-flight photos -- just to show the Tapestry readers what kind of "kite" we'll be building. Here's my request: Could some of you send me a pic or two of your Piet? We can work with digital but they must be 300 dpi at full size (say 3x5 or 4x6). Or, if you can snail-mail me some traditional film prints that would be terrific. I'll be glad to send you a copy of the magazine that your plane appears in. I plan to write an article every three months or so as the plane progresses. I'll be happy to share the articles with this group, too. We're thinking that the article series will kick off in January. Hope to hear from some of you soon! Fred Beseler 1619 Cass St. La Crosse, WI 54601 _TBYH(at)aol.com_ (mailto:TBYH(at)aol.com) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Piet Photos
Good luck with the project Fred. Don't have any flying photos as yet, but I'm putting the fuselage together right now and my engine is being built for me. I have most of my ribs done too. Sounds like a good bunch of flyers up your way. I used to barnstorm up to Neilsville and the towns around. Never did stop in La Crosse though, nice flying country up there too. Doc --- TBYH(at)aol.com wrote: > Fellow Piet Builders: > > I've got a dandy workbench built, I've got an engine > (Model A -- to be > rebuilt), wing ribs from Charlie Rubecks, and enough > spruce and ply to build the > fuselage. And so I'm going to start actually gluing > wood together in the next few > days. > > I'm also going to be writing a series of articles > about the project as it > progresses for a regional monthly magazine serving > the Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota > area (The Tapestry published in Lansing, Iowa). In > the initial article I'm > going to talk about the history of the plane and BHP > and I'd also like to > include some photos of completed Pietenpols -- > especially in-flight photos -- just > to show the Tapestry readers what kind of "kite" > we'll be building. > > Here's my request: Could some of you send me a pic > or two of your Piet? We > can work with digital but they must be 300 dpi at > full size (say 3x5 or 4x6). > Or, if you can snail-mail me some traditional film > prints that would be > terrific. I'll be glad to send you a copy of the > magazine that your plane appears in. > > I plan to write an article every three months or so > as the plane progresses. > I'll be happy to share the articles with this group, > too. We're thinking that > the article series will kick off in January. > > Hope to hear from some of you soon! > > Fred Beseler > 1619 Cass St. > La Crosse, WI 54601 > > _TBYH(at)aol.com_ (mailto:TBYH(at)aol.com) > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Nov 01, 2004
Subject: Air Camper project for sale
I've listed my GN-1 Air Camper on Barnstormer. My still picture with the ad is lousy, and vastly better pictures of this project can be seen on DJ Vegh's site at http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-02-04b.htm. I bought this Air Camper project from DJ in March and it has been stored in my hanger under a couple of canvas tarps. The workmanship is extraordinary. DJ bought this fuselage from someone in Mesa, AZ and I believe I am the 4th owner. The fuselage is 80% complete and I think I have 15 completed ribs (originally built by DJ). The project also includes all the wood necessary to complete the project. The fuselage is mounted on J3 Cub landing gear and it has a Maule tailwheel, minus the actual wheel. Also included are a rib jig that DJ built and another jig that I think is used for the nose ribs. The torque tube is already mounted in the fuselage with sticks installed. I can send a few more photos showing the airplane in a hanger in Abilene, TX. There are some very minor mildew issues that can be removed with light sanding using a 400 grade sandpaper. We had a serious drought until I brought this project home and about as soon as I parked it in the hanger under the canvas tarps, it became VERY humid, thus the mildew. There is one small stain on the exterior right side of the fuselage where condensation drained off the low spot on the tarps. This is only cosmetic. I cannot deliver. This project needs to be picked up at Abilene Regional Airport, located about 2 hours West of Fort Worth on I-20. Thanks, Sterling Brooks 325-754-4609 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 02, 2004
Subject: Re: "Skinny Piet"
Doc, I have a short fuse, to the Improved AirCamper plans. It has the standard plans width, and I don't have any problems with having enough room, now that I am used to it. However, I suppose my biggest problem, is reaching down to buckle the 4 point harness. I'm 6' tall, and weigh 205 lbs. Mounted next to my left hip, I keep a small personal fire extinguisher, the ELT, fuel sump cup, camera, cell phone and fuel quantity indicator (dip stick with calibration marks) on the seat. On the right side I have the Pietenpol Oporation Manual, four way screwdriver, Leatherman Tool, and other paperwork. I also keep a bottle of water there, for cross country trips. I keep all this stuff secured with Velcro. The fire extinguisher is mounted with the bracket that came with it. Once I'm all strapped in, it is comfortable. I made a seat pad that supports the forward portion of my thighs, but is very thin in the middle portion where I sit, to keep me down in the pit as far as possible. Talk about cross country trips... Last summer, I flew Wichita to Brodhead and Oshkosh. This past summer, my cross country trip was for 26 days, from 7/17/04 to 8/11/04. I flew down thru Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Louisiana, Missouri, Arkansas, Illinois, Wisconsin (Brodhead), Indiana, Ohio, east to Wheeling W Va, and back to Wichita, covering 3100 miles, and logged 69.7 hours !! That was the biggest adventure I've ever had !! I burned 288 gal. fuel, 32 bottles of baby oil, made 62 landings, gave 35 rides, spent 8 nights in a tent, 10 nights with family in Wheeling, 4 nights with friends, and 5 nights in motels, spent $1270, and had an average speed of 66 mph. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: "Skinny Piet"
Doc, Make up a 'mockpit' out of scrap material and play with it. Dress in your winter flightsuit and move your arms around with a broomstick and see what your elbows do. I've made my fuse 1" wider as a result. Everything else is normal except for lengthening the tail 6". Here's my mockpit. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=27 I moved the throttle quadrant 9 times to get it where it's comfortable for me as well. Clif Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "Skinny Piet" >


October 06, 2004 - November 01, 2004

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ed