Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ee
November 01, 2004 - November 20, 2004
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ee
November 01, 2004 - November 20, 2004
> Doc,
> I have a short fuse, to the Improved AirCamper plans. It has the standard
> plans width, and I don't have any problems with having enough room, now
that I
> am used to it. However, I suppose my biggest problem, is reaching down to
> buckle the 4 point harness. I'm 6' tall, and weigh 205 lbs.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: "Skinny Piet"
Hey Chuck,
That sounded like one heck of a trip! Now that is my
kind of flying. When I get my Piet built (heaven help
me when) let's hook up and do a trip like that one. I
used to barnstorm from upper Wisconsin to southern
Florida depending on the season. I would be "on the
road" 3-4 months at at time with just what I could
pack in the biplane. Most of my stuff was 60 wt. oil,
extra fuel cans, tent, sleeping bag, tool bag, grease
guns and extra tubes of grease, spare parts, a few
clothes, and of course the indespensible food bag. I
sure miss those days of pure freedom, some depradation
but lots of great people to meet and there is nothing
like a biplane for being a people magnet. I almost
forgot how to drive a land vehicle I was flying so
much. So when I get that Piet finished...
I am sticking with the 26 inch wide fuselage. I have
it all plumbed up and ready to glue. I just like the
way it looks and it will be nice a roomy. I like to
squirm around while I am on long trips and I don't
stop much except for fuel (and most of the time that
was to drop into a hay field or grass strip and dump
two 6 gallon cans of fuel into the tank). I'm
planning a few other changes if I can engineer them.
I plan to build "Jenny" style tail feathers, of
course the wooden Jenny style gear as well as the
raked back Jenny style wing tips. There may be a few
other things I will do as I go along. I am really
enjoying building this project, I always thought I
would but never took the time before to do so.
Thanks for the response and I am serious about hooking
up sometime in the (near?) future for a marathon
flight.
Doc
--- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Doc,
> I have a short fuse, to the Improved AirCamper
> plans. It has the standard
> plans width, and I don't have any problems with
> having enough room, now that I
> am used to it. However, I suppose my biggest
> problem, is reaching down to
> buckle the 4 point harness. I'm 6' tall, and weigh
> 205 lbs. Mounted next to my
> left hip, I keep a small personal fire extinguisher,
> the ELT, fuel sump cup,
> camera, cell phone and fuel quantity indicator (dip
> stick with calibration
> marks) on the seat. On the right side I have the
> Pietenpol Oporation Manual, four
> way screwdriver, Leatherman Tool, and other
> paperwork. I also keep a bottle
> of water there, for cross country trips. I keep all
> this stuff secured with
> Velcro. The fire extinguisher is mounted with the
> bracket that came with it.
> Once I'm all strapped in, it is comfortable. I made
> a seat pad that supports
> the forward portion of my thighs, but is very thin
> in the middle portion where
> I sit, to keep me down in the pit as far as
> possible.
> Talk about cross country trips...
> Last summer, I flew Wichita to Brodhead and Oshkosh.
>
> This past summer, my cross country trip was for
> 26 days, from 7/17/04 to
> 8/11/04. I flew down thru Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas,
> Louisiana, Missouri,
> Arkansas, Illinois, Wisconsin (Brodhead), Indiana,
> Ohio, east to Wheeling W Va, and
> back to Wichita, covering 3100 miles, and logged
> 69.7 hours !! That was the
> biggest adventure I've ever had !! I burned 288
> gal. fuel, 32 bottles of baby
> oil, made 62 landings, gave 35 rides, spent 8 nights
> in a tent, 10 nights
> with family in Wheeling, 4 nights with friends, and
> 5 nights in motels, spent
> $1270, and had an average speed of 66 mph.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
>
>
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: "Skinny Piet"
Hi Clif,
Thanks for the response. Boy, that "mockpit" looks
good enough to strap some wings and engine to and fly.
I have flown from the micro cockpit Cassut racer to
the big and roomy Cessna 210. The size of the cockpit
I now have on the Piet (two inches wider than plans)
is about the same size cockpit I had on the Bird
biplane. That was one of the most comfortable
cockpits I had ever flown. It wasn't too big nor was
it too small. Everything was within easy reach
without being too cluttered. I am going to try to
copy that cockpit as much as possible. Those were
some great pics on your website. I will spend some
time going over them.
Again, thanks for your response.
Doc
--- Clif Dawson wrote:
>
>
> Doc, Make up a 'mockpit' out of scrap material and
> play
> with it. Dress in your winter flightsuit and move
> your arms
> around with a broomstick and see what your elbows
> do.
> I've made my fuse 1" wider as a result. Everything
> else is
> normal except for lengthening the tail 6". Here's my
> mockpit.
>
>
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=27
>
> I moved the throttle quadrant 9 times to get it
> where it's comfortable
> for me as well.
>
> Clif
>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "Skinny Piet"
>
>
> Rcaprd(at)aol.com
> >
> > Doc,
> > I have a short fuse, to the Improved AirCamper
> plans. It has the standard
> > plans width, and I don't have any problems with
> having enough room, now
> that I
> > am used to it. However, I suppose my biggest
> problem, is reaching down to
> > buckle the 4 point harness. I'm 6' tall, and
> weigh 205 lbs.
> >
> > Chuck Gantzer
> > NX770CG
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: G-BUCO
Someone in Merry Olde England has made an R/C
model of Buco, 173" span. Saw it in passing on the
cover of one of those pricy English model mags.
Clif
PS, Your welcome and thanks Galen. We'll be watching
for pics of your progress too.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: G-BUCO
Hi Clif,
I have lots of pics but I don't know about posting
them on the list. If anyone wants to see some of
them, I will be happy to post them or email them to
individuals. Thanks.
Doc
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 02, 2004
Subject: Re: "Skinny Piet"
In a message dated 11/2/04 12:59:49 AM Central Standard Time,
CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca writes:
<< I moved the throttle quadrant 9 times to get it where it's comfortable
for me as well. >>
Clif,
I relocated my power lever 3 times. I finally settled on the bottom side of
the 1/2" X 3/4 stick under the panel, and it pivots in line with the longeron.
I have the push button on / off for the smoke right on the end of the
throttle lever. It's comfortable, and easy to oporate.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2004
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: G-BUCO
Galen,
Theres two popular ways to post pictures that a lot of folks on the list have been using. One is on the www.matronics.com site. The other one is on the www.mykitplane.com site. They're both simple enough and fun to use.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 02, 2004
Subject: Re: "Skinny Piet"
In a message dated 11/2/04 1:11:57 AM Central Standard Time,
wacopitts(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< When I get my Piet built (heaven help
me when) let's hook up and do a trip like that one. >>
Hey Doc,
I'm gonna hold you to that one !! I have a hunch there are some others
who would join us. Imagine a whole gaggle of Low & Slow flyers, barnstorming
America. Very true about so many great people out there, especially 'Airplane
People', at the small airports. Americana at it's finest !! I carried
about 65 lbs of carefully chosen stuff in the front pit. I found the skies east
of Ol' Miss to be a bit more overcast than I'm used to, out here in the Mid
West.
For next summer, I'm kickin' around the idea of doing a lap around the
Rocky Mountains, before heading for Brodhead. I gotta make the Tick Hill Fly
In, then head West till I see the ocean, then up the Left Coast, find a pass up
north around Washington / Idaho / Montana, and head East to Brodhead. Only
problem I see with this plan, is I don't have a transponder. They tell me
there is so many people out in California, and planes in the controlled airspace
out there are thicker than flies on dead cat. I would have to pick my way past
all those magenta circles on the chart.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: "Skinny Piet"
Date: Nov 02, 2004
Chuck,
As a truly "best left" coast flyer, I've made a couple trips thru the
Rockies with my Tomahawk and can make a recommendation for you to transverse
the mountains safely. 1) IFR- I follow roads, specifically I-80 and I-15
and I-90. The danger with I-90 is the altitude/weather problems between
Spokane and Billings, but it's beautiful. I-80 has a high pass between
Rawlings and Cheyenne but I've seen a lot of slow and slow's make it. From
Washington you could drop south and follow the Snake River around the worst
of the Rockies, then head north on I-15 then east on I-90. But most safe
for a low and slow is to follow from WA south along I-84 the US rte. 40 to
"South Pass", then I-80 east, this is the old Oregon Trail. Almost all the
wagon trains crossed the mountains at South Pass along US. 40. 2) There's
lots and lots of places to get lost in CA up close to the Sierras, don't let
the color of the map fool you. 3) get the King Aviation DVD on mountain
flying, and don't let the clear sky's fool you into thinking there are no
winds and downdrafts that won't tear the wings off your plane. Clear air
mountain waves and turbulence down close to the mountain tops can be a
killer. Lastly, its a trip of a lifetime, so be careful.
Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
Cozy IV N64CY
Osprey II N64SY
Pietenpol N-1033B Rebuilding
"Fanaticism consists of redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your
aim"
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "Skinny Piet"
>
> In a message dated 11/2/04 1:11:57 AM Central Standard Time,
> wacopitts(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> << When I get my Piet built (heaven help
> me when) let's hook up and do a trip like that one. >>
>
> Hey Doc,
> I'm gonna hold you to that one !! I have a hunch there are some
others
> who would join us. Imagine a whole gaggle of Low & Slow flyers,
barnstorming
> America. Very true about so many great people out there, especially
'Airplane
> People', at the small airports. Americana at it's finest !! I carried
> about 65 lbs of carefully chosen stuff in the front pit. I found the
skies east
> of Ol' Miss to be a bit more overcast than I'm used to, out here in the
Mid
> West.
> For next summer, I'm kickin' around the idea of doing a lap around the
> Rocky Mountains, before heading for Brodhead. I gotta make the Tick Hill
Fly
> In, then head West till I see the ocean, then up the Left Coast, find a
pass up
> north around Washington / Idaho / Montana, and head East to Brodhead.
Only
> problem I see with this plan, is I don't have a transponder. They tell me
> there is so many people out in California, and planes in the controlled
airspace
> out there are thicker than flies on dead cat. I would have to pick my way
past
> all those magenta circles on the chart.
>
> Chuck G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: "Skinny Piet"
Hi Chuck,
That sounds like a fun trip. I have done some
mountain flying in the Carolinias but nothing like the
Rockies. I would like to do some "out west" flying
though. The upper midwest has some great (though not
all that scenic) flying with plenty of good landing
spots and lots of grass airstrips and lots of people
who just love to fly. My part of the country
(northern Arkansas) has some very scenic places to fly
with lots of large lakes and rivers with mountains all
around. When I was barnstorming, I pretty much
followed Richard Bach's old route and hauled many
riders who had once flown with Bach. Of course, I had
to fly south to Florida in the winter and hauled
skydivers mostly just to stay alive while making a
living with an airplane. This is a great big and
beautiful country and it would be a shame not to have
seen as much of it as you can (from a low flying,
open-cockpit puddle jumper). So when I get the Piet
flying, I plan to do just that. I think the idea of a
group of Piets all flying together would be a blast.
It would be the new "Great American Flying Circus--Fly
$3 A Head."
Doc
>
>
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: G-BUCO
Terry,
Is that the photo-share part of matronics? I have
posted some biplane photos there once. All I have
seen on that site were flying airplanes of different
makes. I haven't tried Mykitplanes yet. I'll give it
a look-see and try to post some.
Doc
>
>
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2004
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: "Skinny Piet"
Chuck,
Perhaps we'll need to move the Tick Hill fly-in up a couple of weeks earlier than
last year. I've been thinking of this anyway... How does the last week or
so of June sound?
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2004
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: G-BUCO
Yes... the matronics photo share. Both are good. I have some photos and files
about my project on mykitplane.com. Here's the link to the photo gallery.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList.cfm?Menu=PhotoGallery
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: G-BUCO
Terry, I enjoyed the photos. I have signed up on
mykitplane.com and sent an email on "how to load
photos". I couldn't figure out how to load them.
Thanks for the info.
Doc
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pics on Mykitplane.com
Hello All,
I have posted some building photos on Mykitplane.com.
I'm not sure how long it will take for them to appear.
Hope you like them.
Doc
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 02, 2004
Subject: America Tour '05
In a message dated 11/2/04 11:13:37 AM Central Standard Time,
gbowen(at)ptialaska.net writes:
<< Chuck,
As a truly "best left" coast flyer, I've made a couple trips thru the
Rockies with my Tomahawk and can make a recommendation for you to transverse
the mountains safely. 1) IFR- I follow roads, specifically I-80 and I-15
and I-90. The danger with I-90 is the altitude/weather problems between
Spokane and Billings, but it's beautiful. I-80 has a high pass between
Rawlings and Cheyenne but I've seen a lot of slow and slow's make it. From
Washington you could drop south and follow the Snake River around the worst
of the Rockies, then head north on I-15 then east on I-90. But most safe
for a low and slow is to follow from WA south along I-84 the US rte. 40 to
"South Pass", then I-80 east, this is the old Oregon Trail. Almost all the
wagon trains crossed the mountains at South Pass along US. 40. 2) There's
lots and lots of places to get lost in CA up close to the Sierras, don't let
the color of the map fool you. 3) get the King Aviation DVD on mountain
flying, and don't let the clear sky's fool you into thinking there are no
winds and downdrafts that won't tear the wings off your plane. Clear air
mountain waves and turbulence down close to the mountain tops can be a
killer. Lastly, its a trip of a lifetime, so be careful.
Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
Cozy IV N64CY
Osprey II N64SY
Pietenpol N-1033B Rebuilding
"Fanaticism consists of redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your
aim" >>
Thanks Gordon !!
I was hoping to find someone with experience in those mountains. I saved
your e-mail, and directions. I just checked the map I have on the routes,
and Homestake Pass in Montana, along Rt. 90 is at 6376'. Along Rt 80 in Utah,
Coalsville Summet is 7800'. Isn't there any lower passes up there ? I've
never had the ol' Piet anywhere near those altitudes. I heard there is a pass
somewhere up there north of Rt 80, that is just over 5000'. I have the mixture
wired full rich right now, so I will have to add a cable and mixture
adjustment. Sometime in the spring, I'll bundle up, check temp and Density Altitude,
and do a test flight to find out the Absolute Ceiling of my plane.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 02, 2004
Subject: Re: "Skinny Piet"
In a message dated 11/2/04 12:23:17 PM Central Standard Time,
BARNSTMR(at)aol.com writes:
<< Perhaps we'll need to move the Tick Hill fly-in up a couple of weeks
earlier than last year. I've been thinking of this anyway... How does the last
week or so of June sound? >>
Terry,
I'm just doing some preliminary planning right now. Management at work would
probably get a chuckle out of my request for a month or two off work !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: America Tour '05
Date: Nov 02, 2004
Chuck,
I think the lowest passes up to the North of the UT border are, north out of
Idaho Falls along I-15, thats along the Beaverhead River to Dillion then Rt
41 east along to I-90 to Bozeman. You'd more or less follow the Snake River
valley from Oregon/Washington up stream until you get to the high part of
the mountains. Then have to turn north to get up on the Missouri and
Yellowstone River drainages going downstream, more or less following the
route of Lewis and Clark, going around the bad part of the mountains between
Spokane and Butte.
The Interstate roads actually cut thru most of these passes at about 6500'
because that's just about the average of the continential divide all along
the northern US Rockies. I misstated the US rte from Idaho Falls to east
of Evanston WY, it's US Rte.30. This is the short cut that the truckers
from Portland/Seattle take when they're going to Chicago. The trains from
Seattle/Portland go to the south along I-84, Ogden thru the passes to I'80,
cross all the mountains from west to east along I-80, this is the lowest
route.
Probably the most predicable weather from west to east is to come to the
south from WA to Portland, follow I-84 all the way to I-80 then cross the
highest part of the trip about Rawlings WY. At Rawlings you can go to
Casper and then you're thru the mountains. The Mormon Trail followed that
route but went north of Rawlings over South Pass. But you're gonna have to
fly about 6000' min. because my homebase in UT is 4500', Rawlings Arpt I
think is about 6500' and the mountain passes up to Evanston you have to
climb another 2000' even just to skim along the Interstate. The weather is
mostly clear and dry, the mountains are least obscured by weather fronts
that come ashore between Portland and Seattle and obscure the mountains of a
line from Spokane to Bozeman.
Good Luck- Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: America Tour '05
>
> In a message dated 11/2/04 11:13:37 AM Central Standard Time,
> gbowen(at)ptialaska.net writes:
>
> << Chuck,
> As a truly "best left" coast flyer, I've made a couple trips thru the
> Rockies with my Tomahawk and can make a recommendation for you to
transverse
> the mountains safely. 1) IFR- I follow roads, specifically I-80 and
I-15
> and I-90. The danger with I-90 is the altitude/weather problems between
> Spokane and Billings, but it's beautiful. I-80 has a high pass between
> Rawlings and Cheyenne but I've seen a lot of slow and slow's make it.
From
> Washington you could drop south and follow the Snake River around the
worst
> of the Rockies, then head north on I-15 then east on I-90. But most
safe
> for a low and slow is to follow from WA south along I-84 the US rte. 40
to
> "South Pass", then I-80 east, this is the old Oregon Trail. Almost all
the
> wagon trains crossed the mountains at South Pass along US. 40. 2)
There's
> lots and lots of places to get lost in CA up close to the Sierras, don't
let
> the color of the map fool you. 3) get the King Aviation DVD on mountain
> flying, and don't let the clear sky's fool you into thinking there are no
> winds and downdrafts that won't tear the wings off your plane. Clear air
> mountain waves and turbulence down close to the mountain tops can be a
> killer. Lastly, its a trip of a lifetime, so be careful.
> Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
> Cozy IV N64CY
> Osprey II N64SY
> Pietenpol N-1033B Rebuilding
>
> "Fanaticism consists of redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten
your
> aim" >>
>
>
> Thanks Gordon !!
> I was hoping to find someone with experience in those mountains. I
saved
> your e-mail, and directions. I just checked the map I have on the
routes,
> and Homestake Pass in Montana, along Rt. 90 is at 6376'. Along Rt 80 in
Utah,
> Coalsville Summet is 7800'. Isn't there any lower passes up there ? I've
> never had the ol' Piet anywhere near those altitudes. I heard there is a
pass
> somewhere up there north of Rt 80, that is just over 5000'. I have the
mixture
> wired full rich right now, so I will have to add a cable and mixture
> adjustment. Sometime in the spring, I'll bundle up, check temp and
Density Altitude,
> and do a test flight to find out the Absolute Ceiling of my plane.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: G-BUCO
Take out a free subscription to Mykitplane and post
as many pics as you want! :-) :-)
http://www.mykitplane.com/
Clif
>
> Hi Clif,
>
> I have lots of pics but I don't know about posting
> them on the list. If anyone wants to see some of
> them, I will be happy to post them or email them to
> individuals. Thanks.
>
> Doc
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: "Skinny Piet"
How about coming here?
http://www.nweaa.org/
Clif
For next summer, I'm kickin' around the idea of doing a lap around the
> Rocky Mountains, before heading for Brodhead. I gotta make the Tick Hill
Fly
> In, then head West till I see the ocean, then up the Left Coast, find a
pass up
> north around Washington / Idaho / Montana, and head East to Brodhead.
Only
> problem I see with this plan, is I don't have a transponder. They tell me
> there is so many people out in California, and planes in the controlled
airspace
> out there are thicker than flies on dead cat. I would have to pick my way
past
> all those magenta circles on the chart.
>
> Chuck G.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: G-BUCO
--- Clif Dawson wrote:
>
>
> Take out a free subscription to Mykitplane and post
> as many pics as you want! :-) :-)
>
> http://www.mykitplane.com/
>
> Clif
>
>
>
> Hi Clif,
I posted some on mykitplane.com. Look in builders log
section. Hope you like them.
Doc
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: America Tour '05
If your going to fly in our rock studded western
clouds :-) you should check this out;
http://www.mountainflying.com/index.htm
Clif
> > Thanks Gordon !!
> I was hoping to find someone with experience in those mountains. I
saved
> your e-mail, and directions. I just checked the map I have on the
routes,
> and Homestake Pass in Montana, along Rt. 90 is at 6376'. Along Rt 80 in
Utah,
> Coalsville Summet is 7800'. Isn't there any lower passes up there ? I've
> never had the ol' Piet anywhere near those altitudes. I heard there is a
pass
> somewhere up there north of Rt 80, that is just over 5000'. I have the
mixture
> wired full rich right now, so I will have to add a cable and mixture
> adjustment. Sometime in the spring, I'll bundle up, check temp and
Density Altitude,
> and do a test flight to find out the Absolute Ceiling of my plane.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 03, 2004
Subject: Re: America Tour '05
In a message dated 11/3/04 1:53:39 AM Central Standard Time,
CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca writes:
<< If your going to fly in our rock studded western
clouds :-) you should check this out;
http://www.mountainflying.com/index.htm
Clif >>
Clif,
Thanks for the site. I'll be checking, and printing, stuff from that one !!
The NW EAA Fly In has dates that fit my schedule.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: annual inspection logbook entry
Date: Nov 03, 2004
Does anybody happen to have "typical wording" for logbook entry to be used
for return to service after annual inspection of an aircraft? This is for
experimental, not certified, but is probably the same wording.
Thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: annual inspection logbook entry
Date: Nov 03, 2004
Oscar,
From the "How to licence a Homebuilt Aircraft"
"I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on
(date) in accordance with the scope and detail of
Appendix D of part 43 and found it to be in condition
for safe operation."
The rest of the entry should include aircraft time in service, your name,
your repairman's certificate type and number, the date and your signature.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: annual inspection logbook entry
>
> Does anybody happen to have "typical wording" for logbook entry to be used
> for return to service after annual inspection of an aircraft? This is for
> experimental, not certified, but is probably the same wording.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: annual inspection logbook entry
Date: Nov 03, 2004
There is a form at the end of Part 43 Appendix D
----- Original Message -----
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: annual inspection logbook entry
>
> Oscar,
> From the "How to licence a Homebuilt Aircraft"
>
> "I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on
> (date) in accordance with the scope and detail of
> Appendix D of part 43 and found it to be in condition
> for safe operation."
>
> The rest of the entry should include aircraft time in service, your name,
> your repairman's certificate type and number, the date and your signature.
>
>
> walt evans
> NX140DL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 11:32 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: annual inspection logbook entry
>
>
>
> >
> > Does anybody happen to have "typical wording" for logbook entry to be
used
> > for return to service after annual inspection of an aircraft? This is
for
> > experimental, not certified, but is probably the same wording.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Oscar Zuniga
> > San Antonio, TX
> > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Nov 03, 2004
Subject: Re: America Tour '05
Chuck:
Don't forget that out of the 25,000 hours my dad has in his logbook, around
5,000 of those hours are flying the Rocky mountains from El Paso to all points
north through the mountains to include Salt Lake, Boise, Portland and points
in between and to Casper and Phoenix and ABQ. Didn't he ink the low routes on
your wall chart when he was at your house? If not, I'll ask him to recall the
low routes and I'll snail mail a map.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
<01a901c4c1f8$c1d79dc0$b15ad90c@yourxhtr8hvc4p>
Subject: Re: Price for a new A-65
Date: Nov 03, 2004
Fellas ,
What would one expect to pay for a newly overhauled A-65-8. Generally
speaking of course and ready to go into a certified airplane. Assume new
Slicks and overhauled carb (Stromberg), Spider, and no prop hub or prop.
Thanks, Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Price for a new A-65
Date: Nov 03, 2004
Bert,
I don't know about a certified shop, but I had the following costs when I
rebuilt mine:
Runout core $1500
Overhaul Crankshaft, $975
Conn. Rods, Rocker
Arms, Gears
Overhaul Crankcase $575
Millenium Cylinders $3250
New Camshaft $225
New Cam Followers $500
New Slick Mags $830
New Bearings, carb kit, $175
gaskets, etc,
Total $8,030
Some of these costs are approximate (I'd have to dig through the invocies to
see what I actually paid), but overall it's pretty close. I have
essentially a brand new engine and it runs very well. I can't imagine how
you could pay more for an overhauled engine (except for the labor cost). My
cylinders were shot and would have to be rebuilt. El Reno wanted $550
apiece to rebuild them, and they still would have been 60 years old. New
Milleniums are $800 each, with new pistons, rings, valves and valve springs,
and rocker shafts. I decided it was worth it. Crankshaft was done at
Aircraft Specialties and crankcase was done at Divco. Assembly took a day
and was done by me under the supervision of an A&P, IA. The FAA didn't even
balk at giving me a 25 hour test flight period, even though I had no
original logs for the engine, and told them I had rebuilt it myself. I did
show them all the green and yellow tags for all the parts I had put in it.
Jack
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bert Conoly
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Price for a new A-65
Fellas ,
What would one expect to pay for a newly overhauled A-65-8. Generally
speaking of course and ready to go into a certified airplane. Assume new
Slicks and overhauled carb (Stromberg), Spider, and no prop hub or prop.
Thanks, Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: America Tour '05
Date: Nov 03, 2004
Chuck,
If S.B.'s dad comes up with a couple routes over the Rockies that are less than
7000', north of Vegas, I'd sure like to know about them. I've only got a couple
1000 hours total but most of them are flying out of Ogden UT going east over
the Rockies or west over the Sierras. Out of Ogden or Salt Lake heading to
the east you've got 9000' peaks, just to get up to Evanston you've got to fly
the passes and go out over the salt flats north-west of Ogden to climb. Re:
your "wired-down" mixture control, it's just about impossible to get enough power
with a single engine plane for take-off from airports in the inter-mountain
west without leaning a lot. Failure to lean your engine is one of the most
frequent reasons for aborted take-offs for folks flying in from flat country
for fuel. The average airport elevation for the "great basin" is 5000'. The
airports actually in the mountain valleys like Laramie WY are at 7000', if memory
serves. All along the front range of the Rockies, you're starting from
an airport of ca. 5000' and trying to go between mountain peaks of 9000' with
passes at 6500' min. The "lowest" route I can think of for a Piet would be Casper,
Rawlings, Evanston, Ogden, even then you'd have to be able to lean your
carb and climb to 7000', the mountain valleys are wide and dry but it's kinda
spooky to look up at the tops.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: America Tour '05
Chuck:
Don't forget that out of the 25,000 hours my dad has in his logbook, around 5,000
of those hours are flying the Rocky mountains from El Paso to all points
north through the mountains to include Salt Lake, Boise, Portland and points in
between and to Casper and Phoenix and ABQ. Didn't he ink the low routes on your
wall chart when he was at your house? If not, I'll ask him to recall the low
routes and I'll snail mail a map.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 04, 2004
Subject: Re: America Tour '05
Sterling,
Unfortunately, we didn't put any marks on my big chart. I really enjoyed
having you and your dad here, and hearing about some of his adventures. It would
be very helpful, if you would ask him to recall those 'Low Routes' and mail
them to me. I'll go over them, and maybe give him a call sometime, to answer
the inevitable questions. I'll bet he would enjoy recalling those flights !!
Gordon,
Although I haven't got any experience in Mountain Flying, I always read
everything I can on the subject, and saving all your advise. Some of the small
strips present quite a challenge to get into and out of. There is a good article
in this month's AOPA magazine on the subject. It says "Terrain is absolute.
It's like the Terminator - there's no arguing with it and no reasoning with
it." If I do this flight, I plan on a gradual introduction to the higher
terrain (short hops), and talking with all the locals about the routes. I think
it
would also be necessary for me to limit my cargo to 50 lbs.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2004
From: Javier Cruz <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: leading edge
<"001301c4bc1 f $474aa9a0$230110ac"@gateway.2wire.net>
Hi friends
I am ready for the leading edge of the wings, checking the list some people
used plywood, other one (DJ i think) used aluminium, so any help here,
coments, recomedations etc.
Thanks in advance
By the way, i want to thanks to Gary Gower for the last weekend at "Chapala
Air Club" excelent planes and people..
Javier Cruz
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: America Tour '05
I'll be waiting. :-) :-) :-)
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: America Tour '05
>
> In a message dated 11/3/04 1:53:39 AM Central Standard Time,
> CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca writes:
>
> << If your going to fly in our rock studded western
> clouds :-) you should check this out;
>
> http://www.mountainflying.com/index.htm
>
> Clif >>
>
>
> Clif,
> Thanks for the site. I'll be checking, and printing, stuff from that one
!!
> The NW EAA Fly In has dates that fit my schedule.
>
> Chuck G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Date: Nov 04, 2004
Hey guys (and gals?)
This is for you guys who have built up some hours on your Piets. I'm outfitting
the cockpit and want to know in your experience, what is really needed in terms
of cubby holes, map storage pockets, jacket compartment etc. I've built two
small glove boxes under the seat and am making a map holder on the right side
where the diagonal meets the vertical sidemember. Should I do two of these?
There also seems to be room in front of the passenger (Ford powered) for a nice
size storage area.
With no actual experience, I'm not sure what is really needed and what's overkill.
Thanks,
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
Date: Nov 04, 2004
Hi Douwe,
With only 7.5 hours on my Piet, I can't claim to be an expert on long trips, but
I will say that it's probably not possible to have too much storage space.
I have a helmet box behind the rear seat, under the turtledeck. I use it to store
my helmet and goggles. I have two triangular map pockets as you describe
and I haven't used them at all yet, but have not taken a trip in it yet (still
flying off the hours in my "box"). I have a full baggage compartment in front
of the forward instrument panel (Continental power,with the fuel in the centersection)
that is large enough to hold a tent, a sleeping bag and a duffle bag.
it currently is used to store a jacket, some chocks, a fire extinguisher,
and a few tools.
I will probably add a "Cup Holder" to hold a small water bottle for long trips,
like when I fly it from NC to Brodhead next July.
Jack
NX899JP
>
> From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
> Date: 2004/11/04 Thu AM 08:47:39 EST
> To: "pietenpolgroup"
> Subject: Pietenpol-List:
>
> Hey guys (and gals?)
>
> This is for you guys who have built up some hours on your Piets. I'm outfitting
the cockpit and want to know in your experience, what is really needed in
terms of cubby holes, map storage pockets, jacket compartment etc. I've built
two small glove boxes under the seat and am making a map holder on the right
side where the diagonal meets the vertical sidemember. Should I do two of these?
>
> There also seems to be room in front of the passenger (Ford powered) for a nice
size storage area.
>
> With no actual experience, I'm not sure what is really needed and what's overkill.
>
> Thanks,
> Douwe
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2004
From: "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu>
Subject: Re: America Tour '05
Chuck,
Based upon my limited experience flying a Cessna 152 in the mountains
of Alaska, I would certainly suggest limiting your baggage as much as
possible and plan on making lots of short hops with considerably less
than full fuel (but ample safety margins) so you've got some
performance. Another thing if you're following roads and train tracks:
they occasionally go through tunnels, but rivers typically don't. Once
aloft, staying on the windward side of the ridges will tend to provide
good lift, whereas the leeward side will do the opposite. Lots of folks
fly through some pretty scary terrain in Champs and T-crates with half
an Elk in the back, so it can be done safely with very little
horsepower. Maybe this would be a good time to design an electric
supercharger that runs off your smoke system for takeoffs? :) And of
course, it's a heck of a lot more fun flying in the mountains than
simply pointing the nose at some smokestack 50 miles away over flat
terrain...
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> Rcaprd(at)aol.com Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:10:45 AM >>>
Sterling,
Unfortunately, we didn't put any marks on my big chart. I really
enjoyed
having you and your dad here, and hearing about some of his adventures.
It would
be very helpful, if you would ask him to recall those 'Low Routes' and
mail
them to me. I'll go over them, and maybe give him a call sometime, to
answer
the inevitable questions. I'll bet he would enjoy recalling those
flights !!
Gordon,
Although I haven't got any experience in Mountain Flying, I always read
everything I can on the subject, and saving all your advise. Some of
the small
strips present quite a challenge to get into and out of. There is a
good article
in this month's AOPA magazine on the subject. It says "Terrain is
absolute.
It's like the Terminator - there's no arguing with it and no reasoning
with
it." If I do this flight, I plan on a gradual introduction to the
higher
terrain (short hops), and talking with all the locals about the routes.
I think it
would also be necessary for me to limit my cargo to 50 lbs.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
<01a901c4c1f8$c1d79dc0$b15ad90c@yourxhtr8hvc4p> <002b01c4c209$c944a5b0$6701a8c0@computername>
Subject: Re: Price for a new A-65
Date: Nov 04, 2004
I just paid $12k for an o-200 with new everything including new crank and slick
mag kit. A 65 will be cheaper because of accessories.
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Price for a new A-65
>
> Fellas ,
>
> What would one expect to pay for a newly overhauled A-65-8. Generally
> speaking of course and ready to go into a certified airplane. Assume new
> Slicks and overhauled carb (Stromberg), Spider, and no prop hub or prop.
>
> Thanks, Bert
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
$474aa9a0$230110ac"(at)gateway.2wire.net> <000e01c4c23a$3f420700$230110ac@gateway.2wire.net>
Subject: Re: leading edge
Date: Nov 04, 2004
I'm at that stage too on my wings and I am going to use .020 Aluminum. I
may get on that next month.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Javier Cruz" <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edge
>
> Hi friends
>
> I am ready for the leading edge of the wings, checking the list some
people
> used plywood, other one (DJ i think) used aluminium, so any help here,
> coments, recomedations etc.
> Thanks in advance
>
>
> By the way, i want to thanks to Gary Gower for the last weekend at
"Chapala
> Air Club" excelent planes and people..
>
> Javier Cruz
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2004
From: "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu>
Subject: Re: America Tour '05
Oh, and I almost forgot: Takeoff as early in the morning as possible,
so they have more daylight to look for you... ;)
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> Rcaprd(at)aol.com Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:10:45 AM >>>
Sterling,
Unfortunately, we didn't put any marks on my big chart. I really
enjoyed
having you and your dad here, and hearing about some of his adventures.
It would
be very helpful, if you would ask him to recall those 'Low Routes' and
mail
them to me. I'll go over them, and maybe give him a call sometime, to
answer
the inevitable questions. I'll bet he would enjoy recalling those
flights !!
Gordon,
Although I haven't got any experience in Mountain Flying, I always read
everything I can on the subject, and saving all your advise. Some of
the small
strips present quite a challenge to get into and out of. There is a
good article
in this month's AOPA magazine on the subject. It says "Terrain is
absolute.
It's like the Terminator - there's no arguing with it and no reasoning
with
it." If I do this flight, I plan on a gradual introduction to the
higher
terrain (short hops), and talking with all the locals about the routes.
I think it
would also be necessary for me to limit my cargo to 50 lbs.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2004
From: "Chris Robbins" <Twoway.8505278595(at)messaging.nextel.com>
Subject: Re: leading edge
Stop sending me this crap
In Reply To Your Message
I'm at that stage too on my wings and I am going to use .020 Aluminum. I
may get on that next month.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Javier Cruz" <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edge
>
> Hi friends
>
> I am ready for the leading edge of the wings, checking the list some
people
> used plywood, other one (DJ i think) used aluminium, so any help here,
> coments, recomedations etc.
> Thanks in advance
>
>
> By the way, i want to thanks to Gary Gower for the last weekend at
"Chapala
> Air Club" excelent planes and people..
>
> Javier Cruz
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Nov 04, 2004
Subject: Re: Price for a new A-65
My cost for overhauling my Continental A-80 is very close to these prices,
with the exception of a new camshaft. They are VERY hard to find these days and
expect to pay $500. Try Sacramento Sky Ranch. They have an impressive list of
parts for the small Continental engines.
Also note, my above referenced engine was "advertised" as having only 5 SMOH.
It was overhauled by a "shade-tree" A&P and was not airworthy. When we
disassembled the engine, we found a shot camshaft, a worthless crankshaft. The
accessory case was in dire need of repair as was the engine case.
Don't make the same mistake I made in taking the owner's word for the
overhaul, nor what is represented in an engine logbook. Get a second opinion before
parting company with your cash.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Nov 04, 2004
Subject: Re: America Tour '05
I talked to my dad last night. His memory is incredible and he even recalls
some dirt strips at pipeline compressor stations in and near the Rockies where
he often landed his Twin Bonanza, Cessna 310, Cessna 421, back in the "old
days." Three of the more scenic is around Corona, New Mexico, Guadalupe Peak in
Texas and near Shiprock.
I'll get with him this week and have him sketch out the old routes these guys
flew back in the 50s and 60s. The dirt strips may not even be on the charts
these days, but in the event of needing to make an unplanned landing, your
Pietenpol could do it with ease and I bet the folks at the compressor stations
would be happy to buy you a cup of coffee and a warm place to settle in. Just
tell them you know an old pilot named Roy sent you.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 04, 2004
Subject: Re: leading edge
In a message dated 11/4/04 12:50:28 AM Central Standard Time,
javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx writes:
<< I am ready for the leading edge of the wings, checking the list some people
used plywood, other one (DJ i think) used aluminium, so any help here,
coments, recomedations etc.
Thanks in advance >>
Javier,
I used the 1/16" plywood for the leading edge, spliced it over a rib, and
extended it to the front edge of the leading edge, and aft side of the front
spar. Don't glue it to the spar. I used adhesive, and NO nails. I experimented
with how I would strap it down, without the use of nails, before I put the T88
to it. After the plywood was installed, it stuck up a bit between the ribs,
but once the fabric was shrunk down, it pulled it down between the ribs just
perfectly.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 04, 2004
Subject: Re:
In a message dated 11/4/04 7:37:57 AM Central Standard Time,
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< I'm outfitting the cockpit and want to know in your experience, what is
really needed in terms of cubby holes, map storage pockets, jacket compartment
etc. I've built two small glove boxes under the seat and am making a map
holder on the right side where the diagonal meets the vertical sidemember. Should
I do two of these? >>
Douwe,
It's true, that you can't have enough secure storage space, where things
don't come loose in turbulance and wind blowing around in the cockpit. As you
gain flight time, you will no doubt continue to upgrade the cockpit area to suit
your needs. Take advantage of the location of a second map holder on the left
side. These are places that are relatively easy to access during flight. As
I noted in an earlier post, I use Velcro extensively, to secure things in the
Pit. The stuff next to my hips aren't quite as easy to access during flight,
but are doable. My biggest challenge during cross country flight is managing
the current chart that I am using. I fold it all up to maybe a 6" X 8"
portion, put it on my clipboard that is velcroed to my left leg. Any bigger than
that, and it tends to flutter around, and wants to come out from under the
clipboard. I have used those small paper holder clamps to help hold the chart,
but then I fear dropping one on the floor and jaming the controls, so I tie
EVERYTHING off with strings. I keep a Highlighter pen cap secured to the left
side of the windshield, and tie off the body of it with a string, to maintain my
position on the chart. Ever try to remove the pen cap, make a mark, and
replace the cap with one hand, without dropping it ? It is a very convienent
location to access the highlighter, and update my position on the chart with it
every 5 or 10 minutes. However, sometimes it becomes necessary to change charts
en route. Here is the challenge: Change out the chart without having it
blow out of the cockpit, while trying to maintain course and altitude !! An old
Stearman Pilot advised me to Always carry duplicate charts, in case one blows
out. If they blow out of the cockpit, and get caught on the tail, you can't
climb back there to retrieve them...however, I did see it done in a movie.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: tour america 05
Date: Nov 04, 2004
Chuck
I have done quite a bit of flying in the Rockies in Mont. It is very beautiful
but can be quite trecerious also. I would be happy to share some tips on some
specific areas when you get into the planning stages. Most of my experience
is from the Black Hills, SD. across WY. Billinngs, Red Lodge, Bozeman and around
Yellowstone Park.
Most of your flying should be in the early mornings, before the winds kick up.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: tour america 05
Date: Nov 04, 2004
Dick,
Do you know of any way for getting from Spokane to Billings without going over
7000' ? My only idea was going southeastward from Portland up the Snake River
to Idaho Falls then north over the Beaverhead River down stream to Dillion MT,
then going around the north side of Yellowstone. It's circuitious, but maybe
doable in a Piete. Lots of rocks in those clouds and the northern Rockies weather
changes by the minute, the only time the wind ain't blowin' is when it
stops to change directions.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 1:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tour america 05
Chuck
I have done quite a bit of flying in the Rockies in Mont. It is very beautiful
but can be quite trecerious also. I would be happy to share some tips on some
specific areas when you get into the planning stages. Most of my experience
is from the Black Hills, SD. across WY. Billinngs, Red Lodge, Bozeman and
around Yellowstone Park.
Most of your flying should be in the early mornings, before the winds kick up.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2004
From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: leading edge
I tried aluminum over the leading edge, but couldn't convince myself I had
it attached properly (got as far as covering the center section) I used
aircraft nails (about 1/2"). I ripped it off and went with 1/32 plywood. It
behaved very nicely, except that it oilcanned in spots. In between ribs, I
installed 1.5" wide strips of 1/16" plywood. When these are cut to exactly
the right length, they pop into place and hold the leading edge skin in the
right position. I applied T-88 to them before popping them into place. I
did something that some people dissapprove of: I filled the space between
ribs with a strip glued to the top of the spar. Some folks say that the
fabric is supposed to sag between ribs. I can't see any advantage to
having the skin depart from the airfoil defined by the ribs...and that's
exactly what it does when you let it sag....Carl Vought
wrote :
>
> Hi friends
>
> I am ready for the leading edge of the wings, checking the list some
people
> used plywood, other one (DJ i think) used aluminium, so any help here,
> coments, recomedations etc.
> Thanks in advance
>
>
> By the way, i want to thanks to Gary Gower for the last weekend
at "Chapala
> Air Club" excelent planes and people..
>
> Javier Cruz
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2004
From: Javier Cruz <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: Re: leading edge
Thanks for your help Friends
I will try to get 1/16 plywood here (Mexico), if not, i will call to Wicks ,
maybe they can send the plywood cut for less expensive shipping. I have on
hand some sheets of formica, but i don't know if it is enought hard for
leading edge.
Javier Cruz
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2004
From: Don Morris <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com>
Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax)
Subject: Re: leading edge
<004901c4c2d8$0d8a2be0$230110ac@gateway.2wire.net>
Hi.
I would NOT use Formica on the leading edge. It is very brittle, and
will crack and disintegrate. I hate to think of what a bird strike
would do to it. It is also quite heavy. I am also ready for my leading
edge, and I think I am going to try for the aluminum.
-Don
Javier Cruz wrote:
>
>Thanks for your help Friends
>I will try to get 1/16 plywood here (Mexico), if not, i will call to Wicks ,
>maybe they can send the plywood cut for less expensive shipping. I have on
>hand some sheets of formica, but i don't know if it is enought hard for
>leading edge.
>Javier Cruz
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: tour america 05
Date: Nov 04, 2004
Gordon
I've travelled quite a bit in the area from Idaho Falls to Dillon and I don't have
my charts with me now but I don't recall many airports or good places to make
an emergency landing along that way. I'm not that familiar with the Spokane
area to Missoula except by land but once that far re-fueling on some of the
flat routes is a problem.
Bozeman pass is around 6000' but can be rough and the winds and turbulance around
Livingston are often severe.
My thought would be Dillon to Ennis to West Yellowstone to Gardnier to Livingston
to points east or reverse.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tour america 05
Dick,
Do you know of any way for getting from Spokane to Billings without going over
7000' ? My only idea was going southeastward from Portland up the Snake River
to Idaho Falls then north over the Beaverhead River down stream to Dillion
MT, then going around the north side of Yellowstone. It's circuitious, but maybe
doable in a Piete. Lots of rocks in those clouds and the northern Rockies
weather changes by the minute, the only time the wind ain't blowin' is when it
stops to change directions.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 1:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tour america 05
Chuck
I have done quite a bit of flying in the Rockies in Mont. It is very beautiful
but can be quite trecerious also. I would be happy to share some tips on
some specific areas when you get into the planning stages. Most of my experience
is from the Black Hills, SD. across WY. Billinngs, Red Lodge, Bozeman and
around Yellowstone Park.
Most of your flying should be in the early mornings, before the winds kick
up.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: TomTravis(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 04, 2004
Subject: Re: tour america 05
How about Mullan Pass east of Spokane?
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Mountain Flying
Date: Nov 04, 2004
Chuck G. and other "Pieters"
I think that the '05 Tour that you guys are thinking about is great!
However, since I have some considerable experience in this mountain flying business,
and built "Mountain Piet" expressly for this purpose, may I offer a few
comments?
Most Piets using 65-A Continentals and Corvairs become single passenger (the pilot
only) airplanes. If you try and carry a full fuel load and then all the
camping stuff too, it may be too marginal to get your plane off the ground.
It can be really embarrasing to take off of an airport at 4,000 feet, fly up to
an airport at 7,000 feet and try to take off the next day when the temperature
has gone up, believe me, I've done it! However, most people don't mind you
staying an extra day!
It is not unusual the have the density altitude easily on a summer day exceed over
11,000 feet at our airport which is at about 7,500 feet. This is due to the
temperature rise as the day progresses. If you don't have enough power and
a long enough runway with a clear departure, then you are flirting with disaster.
I have seen overloaded Bonanza's and 210's struggle to get into the air,
enough where we run out of the terminal to see if the idiot made it! You have
to keep it light! Also, always lean your engine before take off so that you
are getting maximum power.
Two reasons not to fly during midday. As I said above, the density altitude can
be higher than the service ceiling of the plane. Additionally, the turbulence
can really have you " biting the buttons out of the seat" at midday. A poorly
constucted and overloaded plane may well suffer structural damage due to extreme
turbulence at midday.. Best to get out at first daylight and then plan
to quit before 11:00 AM. Things sometimes calm down toward evening.
I always follow a road when flying in the mountains or at least have one in gliding
range. If you have to put it down, then do it close to or on the road, the
rescuers won't have to climb mountains to find and recover your remains!
Landings at our altitude in a Piet will be hotter than a firecracker compared to
what you are used to at sea level. The airspeed indicator will show the same
air speed, but the ground speed will be higher than you are used to. Since
a Piet has a lot of drag, make sure that you carry extra energy on final, either
with power or a steep glide angle. You will get used to it, go back to sea
level and think you are landing in molasses!
When going through a pass, always gain enough altitude so you can see to the other
side before starting through. There is no way that your plane is going to
climb as steeply as the terrain rises! We pick several planes a year along with
the bodies off our mountains who have made this mistake. Also, many passes
look the same to a flatlander who hasn't been here before, make sure that the
pass is the one that you filed in your flight plan, the rescuers want to know
where to start looking!
Now I know that all of this seems to make mountain flying dangerous, it is not!
It is just different. Follow the rules and use common sense and you will find
it one of the most rewarding experiences you will ever have in an airplane.
Get a book, read it, and then enjoy the view. If you don't think that you have
enough power, plan to go across either Wyoming or down across New Mexico.
Have warm clothes, the temperature drops about 3 degrees for every thousand feet
above ground level. This temperature drop plus the wind chill factor at 70
mph will make you want to give up open cockpits forever.
That's enough of the "Gospel according to St. John" :o)
If you do decide to come through our area, please give me a call, we have a couple
of unused bedrooms downstairs.
Boy, do I miss "Mountain Piet".
John Dilatush,
Salida, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
<002101c4c2e7$ca672dd0$0600a8c0@laptop>
Subject: Re: tour america 05
Date: Nov 04, 2004
Thanks Dick,
When I use to spend most of the year in Ogden UT, I'd fly up to Dillion MT to fish
the Beaverhead and Afton WY to fish the Salt and Snake. One time I took my
125hp Traumahawk into both these places with a passenger and decided never to
do it again, never thought I'd be able to "corkscrew" enough altitude to get
back out of those places. Later fishing trips up to places with +6000' airport
elevations involved a rented C-182 from the flying club. The northern part
of the US Rockies is a lumpy place, but beautiful as it gets. I'm putting a 100
hp O-235 into the Piete rebuild I'm doing this winter down in FL, if I get
it going by Jan., I'll see if it'll climb to 9000', just about the lowest safe
altitude I'd recommend for anyone in a single engine trying to cross the Northern
Rockies at the passes. Hope the Tour USA trip before Broadhead can come
off, it'd be a sweet trip. I'm out of Alaska tomorrow, currently about 15F and
snowing, and this is the Palm Coast of AK.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tour america 05
Gordon
I've travelled quite a bit in the area from Idaho Falls to Dillon and I don't
have my charts with me now but I don't recall many airports or good places to
make an emergency landing along that way. I'm not that familiar with the Spokane
area to Missoula except by land but once that far re-fueling on some of the
flat routes is a problem.
Bozeman pass is around 6000' but can be rough and the winds and turbulance around
Livingston are often severe.
My thought would be Dillon to Ennis to West Yellowstone to Gardnier to Livingston
to points east or reverse.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tour america 05
Dick,
Do you know of any way for getting from Spokane to Billings without going over
7000' ? My only idea was going southeastward from Portland up the Snake River
to Idaho Falls then north over the Beaverhead River down stream to Dillion
MT, then going around the north side of Yellowstone. It's circuitious, but
maybe doable in a Piete. Lots of rocks in those clouds and the northern Rockies
weather changes by the minute, the only time the wind ain't blowin' is when
it stops to change directions.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 1:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tour america 05
Chuck
I have done quite a bit of flying in the Rockies in Mont. It is very beautiful
but can be quite trecerious also. I would be happy to share some tips
on some specific areas when you get into the planning stages. Most of my experience
is from the Black Hills, SD. across WY. Billinngs, Red Lodge, Bozeman
and around Yellowstone Park.
Most of your flying should be in the early mornings, before the winds kick
up.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Mountain Flying
Date: Nov 04, 2004
Great posting John, especially regarding summer days and density altitudes over
9,000' even if the airport is "only" 4500' field elevation, saw a niffty rebuilt
Tri-Pacer burn it in a couple years ago because of this problem, three people
got toasted.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
To: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Cc: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Flying
Chuck G. and other "Pieters"
I think that the '05 Tour that you guys are thinking about is great!
However, since I have some considerable experience in this mountain flying business,
and built "Mountain Piet" expressly for this purpose, may I offer a few
comments?
Most Piets using 65-A Continentals and Corvairs become single passenger (the
pilot only) airplanes. If you try and carry a full fuel load and then all the
camping stuff too, it may be too marginal to get your plane off the ground.
It can be really embarrasing to take off of an airport at 4,000 feet, fly up
to an airport at 7,000 feet and try to take off the next day when the temperature
has gone up, believe me, I've done it! However, most people don't mind
you staying an extra day!
It is not unusual the have the density altitude easily on a summer day exceed
over 11,000 feet at our airport which is at about 7,500 feet. This is due to
the temperature rise as the day progresses. If you don't have enough power and
a long enough runway with a clear departure, then you are flirting with disaster.
I have seen overloaded Bonanza's and 210's struggle to get into the air,
enough where we run out of the terminal to see if the idiot made it! You have
to keep it light! Also, always lean your engine before take off so that you
are getting maximum power.
Two reasons not to fly during midday. As I said above, the density altitude
can be higher than the service ceiling of the plane. Additionally, the turbulence
can really have you " biting the buttons out of the seat" at midday. A poorly
constucted and overloaded plane may well suffer structural damage due to
extreme turbulence at midday.. Best to get out at first daylight and then plan
to quit before 11:00 AM. Things sometimes calm down toward evening.
I always follow a road when flying in the mountains or at least have one in gliding
range. If you have to put it down, then do it close to or on the road,
the rescuers won't have to climb mountains to find and recover your remains!
Landings at our altitude in a Piet will be hotter than a firecracker compared
to what you are used to at sea level. The airspeed indicator will show the same
air speed, but the ground speed will be higher than you are used to. Since
a Piet has a lot of drag, make sure that you carry extra energy on final, either
with power or a steep glide angle. You will get used to it, go back to sea
level and think you are landing in molasses!
When going through a pass, always gain enough altitude so you can see to the
other side before starting through. There is no way that your plane is going
to climb as steeply as the terrain rises! We pick several planes a year along
with the bodies off our mountains who have made this mistake. Also, many passes
look the same to a flatlander who hasn't been here before, make sure that
the pass is the one that you filed in your flight plan, the rescuers want to
know where to start looking!
Now I know that all of this seems to make mountain flying dangerous, it is not!
It is just different. Follow the rules and use common sense and you will
find it one of the most rewarding experiences you will ever have in an airplane.
Get a book, read it, and then enjoy the view. If you don't think that you
have enough power, plan to go across either Wyoming or down across New Mexico.
Have warm clothes, the temperature drops about 3 degrees for every thousand feet
above ground level. This temperature drop plus the wind chill factor at 70
mph will make you want to give up open cockpits forever.
That's enough of the "Gospel according to St. John" :o)
If you do decide to come through our area, please give me a call, we have a couple
of unused bedrooms downstairs.
Boy, do I miss "Mountain Piet".
John Dilatush,
Salida, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
From: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 05, 2004
Subject: Western Mountains
Hello group,
When you fly out of Coeur d'Alene, ID, there are two routes that avoid
the high elevations encountered crossing farther south. Following I-90 through
Missoula, Butte, Billings, etc. you will not have to go much higher than
6500-7000 feet. If you cut north to Kalispell and skirt Glacier Nat'l Park, you
only need to clear 5280 foot Marias Pass. Of course, this is the long way
around, but who flying a Pietenpol is in a hurry, anyway? Some of North Dakota
is
beautiful from the air! I sure hope to be able to join a Pietenpol Air Tour
in some not-too-distant year! Don
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Taildragger poem
This just arrived in my inbox. I'm sorry, I
just had to send it on, even though I know
it can't possibly relate to us. :-) :-)
> I'm sure some can relate to this! :o))
>
> Taildragger, I hate your guts,
> I have the license, ratings and such.
> But to make you go straight is driving me nuts.
> With hours of teaching and the controls in my clutch.
> It takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
>
> You see, I learned to fly in a trycycle gear
> with one up front and two in the rear.
> She was sleek and clean and easy to steer
> But this miserable thing with tires and struts
> Takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
>
> It demands your attention on the take-off roll
> or it heads towards Jone's as you pour on the coal.
> Gotta hang loose, don't over control.
>
> This wicked little plane is just too much.
> With a lot of zigzagging and words obscene
> I think I've mastered this slippery machine
> It's not that bad if you have the touch
> Just a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
>
> I relax for a second and from the corner of my eye,
> I suddenly realize with a gasp and a cry
> That's my own tail that's going by.
> You grounding looping wreck; I hate your guts,
> Give a little rudder, Great Scott, THAT'S TOO MUCH.
>
> Author Unknown
Clif
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Mountain Flying
Date: Nov 05, 2004
Chuck G. and other Pieters,
In my earlier post, I forgot to mention the effect that altitude has on the horsepower
of a normally aspirated engine.
A normally aspirated engine will lose about 3% of it's horsepower per thousand
feet. Figure it this way: If you have a 65 hp Continental, at 7500 feet, you
really only have 77.5% of 65 hp available or about 50 hp at full throttle available
for take off and climb!
Another thing to keep in mind when planning your route.
Cordially,
John Dilatush
Salida, Colorado
Boy, I miss "Mountain Piet".
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2004
From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: leading edge
I think that's good advice about the formica. Did Javier mean "Masonite"
maybe? Have you ever heard that BHP used old election posters for his
leading edge? Carl
wrote :
>
> Hi.
>
> I would NOT use Formica on the leading edge. It is very brittle, and
> will crack and disintegrate. I hate to think of what a bird strike
> would do to it. It is also quite heavy. I am also ready for my leading
> edge, and I think I am going to try for the aluminum.
>
> -Don
>
> Javier Cruz wrote:
>
> >
> >Thanks for your help Friends
> >I will try to get 1/16 plywood here (Mexico), if not, i will call to
Wicks ,
> >maybe they can send the plywood cut for less expensive shipping. I have
on
> >hand some sheets of formica, but i don't know if it is enought hard for
> >leading edge.
> >Javier Cruz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Nov 05, 2004
Subject: Western America Tour Charts, EBAY
I just went through my closet looking for charts and sectionals to send to
Chuck for his next extravaganza out west, when I decided to see if Ebay had any
bargains on sectionals. I found the below item, which seems to offer a
substantial savings on sectionals rather than buying them from Sporty's or at your
local FBO.
Ebay item number 4501168927 
http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif" WIDTH="12" HEIGHT="1" BORDER="0" DATASIZE="49">
This item may have some use in planning routes, but I'd sure hate to print
out a slew of charts on my color laser printer. Still, it may be good to keep
loaded in a laptop.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 05, 2004
Subject: Lower longerons
Probably an oft repeated questions, but here goes anyway. I cut some of that
beautiful Sitka spruce into 1x1-inch strips for the top and bottom longerons.
I can bend the bottom longeron into the jig, but seems like there will be an
awful lot of pent-up stress if I just glue it up that way. I read the one
fellow steamed the front portion of the lower longeron to get it to bend easier.
What's the right way to do this -- I'm thinking of getting a length of two- or
three-inch pipe, four feet long or so, capping one end, filling with water,
heating to a boil and then putting longeron in there. If that's the right
solution, how long should I leave the spruce in there? Will that weaken the wood
after it dries? Some guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks!
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
_TBYH(at)aol.com_ (mailto:TBYH(at)aol.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.net" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Date: Nov 06, 2004
Subject: Re: Lower longerons
I just glued mine up - didn't seem like that much stress at all. Interested to
see what other say though.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Lower longerons
Hi Fred,
I had the same thoughts a couple to three months ago
when I was faced with the same delima. I found that
after the longerones lay in the jig for awhile, and
they porbably will, they will eventually take on the
shape of the jig and there will be much less stress
than you might think. I don't think you will gain
much by soaking or boiling the ends of the longerones
as they will eventually conform to their new shape.
Seems like spruce just wants to bend (warp) anyway so
all you are doing is guiding it in the direction that
you want it to go. Just be gentle while bending them
into the jig so you don't crack or break one. By
soaking or boiling them, the wood will swell and make
it hard to fit into the jig holding blocks. Others
may have a different opinion than mine, but it worked
well for me. Also be careful that you have the grain
running in the right direction, ie. perpendicular to
the plane of the table top.
Doc
--- TBYH(at)aol.com wrote:
> Probably an oft repeated questions, but here goes
> anyway. I cut some of that
> beautiful Sitka spruce into 1x1-inch strips for the
> top and bottom longerons.
> I can bend the bottom longeron into the jig, but
> seems like there will be an
> awful lot of pent-up stress if I just glue it up
> that way. I read the one
> fellow steamed the front portion of the lower
> longeron to get it to bend easier.
> What's the right way to do this -- I'm thinking of
> getting a length of two- or
> three-inch pipe, four feet long or so, capping one
> end, filling with water,
> heating to a boil and then putting longeron in
> there. If that's the right
> solution, how long should I leave the spruce in
> there? Will that weaken the wood
> after it dries? Some guidance would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Fred B.
> La Crosse, WI
> _TBYH(at)aol.com_ (mailto:TBYH(at)aol.com)
>
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Lower longerons
Date: Nov 05, 2004
Fred
The wood will relax it self over time.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 4:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower longerons
Probably an oft repeated questions, but here goes anyway. I cut some of that
beautiful Sitka spruce into 1x1-inch strips for the top and bottom longerons.
I can bend the bottom longeron into the jig, but seems like there will be an
awful lot of pent-up stress if I just glue it up that way. I read the one fellow
steamed the front portion of the lower longeron to get it to bend easier. What's
the right way to do this -- I'm thinking of getting a length of two- or
three-inch pipe, four feet long or so, capping one end, filling with water, heating
to a boil and then putting longeron in there. If that's the right solution,
how long should I leave the spruce in there? Will that weaken the wood after
it dries? Some guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks!
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
TBYH(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Lower longerons
Fred,
I meant to say that the grain should run with the
plane of the table, not perpendicular to it. Sorry
about that. Good luck and let us know if you have any
further questions.
Doc
--- Galen Hutcheson wrote:
> Hutcheson
>
> Hi Fred,
>
> I had the same thoughts a couple to three months ago
> when I was faced with the same delima. I found that
> after the longerones lay in the jig for awhile, and
> they porbably will, they will eventually take on the
> shape of the jig and there will be much less stress
> than you might think. I don't think you will gain
> much by soaking or boiling the ends of the
> longerones
> as they will eventually conform to their new shape.
> Seems like spruce just wants to bend (warp) anyway
> so
> all you are doing is guiding it in the direction
> that
> you want it to go. Just be gentle while bending
> them
> into the jig so you don't crack or break one. By
> soaking or boiling them, the wood will swell and
> make
> it hard to fit into the jig holding blocks. Others
> may have a different opinion than mine, but it
> worked
> well for me. Also be careful that you have the grain
> running in the right direction, ie. perpendicular to
> the plane of the table top.
>
> Doc
> --- TBYH(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> > Probably an oft repeated questions, but here goes
> > anyway. I cut some of that
> > beautiful Sitka spruce into 1x1-inch strips for
> the
> > top and bottom longerons.
> > I can bend the bottom longeron into the jig, but
> > seems like there will be an
> > awful lot of pent-up stress if I just glue it up
> > that way. I read the one
> > fellow steamed the front portion of the lower
> > longeron to get it to bend easier.
> > What's the right way to do this -- I'm thinking of
> > getting a length of two- or
> > three-inch pipe, four feet long or so, capping one
> > end, filling with water,
> > heating to a boil and then putting longeron in
> > there. If that's the right
> > solution, how long should I leave the spruce in
> > there? Will that weaken the wood
> > after it dries? Some guidance would be greatly
> > appreciated.
> >
> > Many thanks!
> >
> > Fred B.
> > La Crosse, WI
> > _TBYH(at)aol.com_ (mailto:TBYH(at)aol.com)
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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>
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__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
Subject: Re: Lower longerons
Date: Nov 05, 2004
Fred,
Had no problem laying mine in the jig a couple months ago. Which way's your grain
running? In the end I ran mine with the grain laying horizontal (parallel)
to the run of the longeron (although either direction worked).
Important word of advise: Use more jig blocks than you think you need then double
screw them so they don't pivot around a single screw (this is especially true
for the side trusses and braces). Though my second fuselage side is acceptable
"it ain't perfect" compared to the other one. I've had to suck up about
an 1/8" bow (top to bottom mid-fuselage) by clamping the two side together so
they're even and then gluing on the gussets. This was caused by minute slipage
of a couple side trusses during their glue-up (i.e.: slipped overnight). That
may sound Greek but if it happens to you you'll know exactly what I'm talking
about.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
----- Original Message -----
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 1:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower longerons
Probably an oft repeated questions, but here goes anyway. I cut some of that
beautiful Sitka spruce into 1x1-inch strips for the top and bottom longerons.
I can bend the bottom longeron into the jig, but seems like there will be an
awful lot of pent-up stress if I just glue it up that way. I read the one fellow
steamed the front portion of the lower longeron to get it to bend easier. What's
the right way to do this -- I'm thinking of getting a length of two- or
three-inch pipe, four feet long or so, capping one end, filling with water, heating
to a boil and then putting longeron in there. If that's the right solution,
how long should I leave the spruce in there? Will that weaken the wood after
it dries? Some guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks!
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
TBYH(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2004
From: Javier Cruz <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: Re: Lower longerons
Hi Fred
When i made the wing tips i soak the 1x1 spruce for the curve, i let the spruce
about 10 days and was not posible to bend it, for the fuselage, just i draw
on the table the fuselage side and made a provisional jig on the table with
wood blocks and bolts for longerons and braces, i did install first the longerons,
the braces and all gussets, whit the large of the longerons is not much
stress there, and both sides were almost identical, check where gussets should
be and where not, Good luck on your project.
About the formica, i don't know if the translation was right Carl, i have
been checked it and it looks fragile, i think that Don is right, Thanks for your
comments .
Javier Cruz
________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 06, 2004
Subject: Longerons
Many thanks for feedback -- I'll just put the lower longeron in the jig
without steaming and go from there. The grain runs with the length of the fuselage
-- just like the many balsa wood models I've built over the years. Anyway, it
is fun to actually start cutting and gluing wood. I'll share some pics when I
get the sides finished and assembled. Got my Sitka and ply from McCormick
Lumber in Madison, WI, by the way. Nice folks!
Many thanks again!
Fred B.
La Crosse
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2004
From: Don Morris <pietbuilder(at)donsplans.com>
Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax)
Subject: Bending Wood - was Lower longerons
HTML_TITLE_EMPTY
Hi. I have to weight in my two cents worth.
Before I entered the world of aircraft building, I was heavily involved
in musical instrument construction. ( http://www.donsplans.com )
Actually, there are a LOT of similarities, but I'll cut the the chase.
I have bent a LOT of wood.
First, if you can bend the longerons without them cracking, this is
fine. If you take apart a 100 year old violin and try to straighten the
sides, the sides will crack! The wood will gradually conform to the new
line. If you feel that the strain is too much on the bend, moisture and
heat will help. Your idea of a long pipe is a good one. If you do
this, I would boil the longerons in water for at least 3 or 4 hours, and
5 or 6 would not be bad. Then, take out the longerons, and immediately
place it into the jig while it is still hot. Then, you will have let it
dry. This will take at least a week or two. Remember that the moisture
saturated wood will not glue properly until it is back to the same
moisture content as the rest of the wood. It will also tend to shrink
as it dries, so make sure that it has the same basic moisture content as
the rest of the wood before you build, or your fuselage will develop and
arched back as the bottom longerons dry.
After you are done, the wood will be just as strong as if you had not
done the treatment. However, as you can tell by the previous details,
it will be a rather large endeavor. My final "advice" on the project is
don't try to steam the wood. Bend it slowly into your jig, and don't
let the stress build up on any one point of the spruce. If you are
careful about your work, and the spruce broke while it was being
installed in the jig, then it was defective, and you just possibly saved
your life! Go get a clear 2x4, and cut a 1 inch square longeron or 3
from it. Practice with these until you can feel when the wood is about
to crack.
-Don Morris
P.S. There is a technique of bending with dry heat, but one must be
VERY careful as it is a fine line between enough heat and scorching the
wood.
TBYH(at)aol.com wrote:
> Probably an oft repeated questions, but here goes anyway. I cut some
> of that beautiful Sitka spruce into 1x1-inch strips for the top and
> bottom longerons. I can bend the bottom longeron into the jig, but
> seems like there will be an awful lot of pent-up stress if I just glue
> it up that way. I read the one fellow steamed the front portion of the
> lower longeron to get it to bend easier. What's the right way to do
> this -- I'm thinking of getting a length of two- or three-inch pipe,
> four feet long or so, capping one end, filling with water, heating to
> a boil and then putting longeron in there. If that's the right
> solution, how long should I leave the spruce in there? Will that
> weaken the wood after it dries? Some guidance would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Fred B.
> La Crosse, WI
> TBYH(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 06, 2004
Subject: Re: Mountain Flying
In a message dated 11/5/04 8:36:02 AM Central Standard Time,
dilatush(at)amigo.net writes:
<< Chuck G. and other Pieters,
In my earlier post, I forgot to mention the effect that altitude has on the
horsepower of a normally aspirated engine.
A normally aspirated engine will lose about 3% of it's horsepower per
thousand feet. Figure it this way: If you have a 65 hp Continental, at 7500 feet,
you really only have 77.5% of 65 hp available or about 50 hp at full throttle
available for take off and climb!
Another thing to keep in mind when planning your route.
Cordially,
John Dilatush
Salida, Colorado
Boy, I miss "Mountain Piet". >>
John,
I was hoping to hear some comments on flying in mountain terrain, from you.
Thank you, and everyone, for some very good advise.
I plan on bringing this subject up again some time.
John Ford,
Please let your son Collin (about 7 yrs old) know that ever since he and his
buddies, Tyler and Garrett Menache, fix my brake cylinders at Brodhead, I
haven't had any problems at all with them !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Bending Wood - was Lower longerons
I'll second this. The fuselage bend is not at all severe and shouldn't be
any trouble so long as you take it slowly. I would recomend the grain
be perpendicular to the table. The grain has more give in this direction.
The grain is actually layers the same as if you laminated and glued
your own layers together. The tree builds a new layer every year and
glues it to the existing layers with a thermoplastic "glue" called lignin.
This is extremely simplified. It's a lot more complicated than that but
essentialy the case. Also, if you can, make the longerons at least 6"
longer than the fuselage and begin the bend that far ahead of the
firewall crossmember. As mentioned before, use a number of blocks
screwed to the table to bend the longeron around, not just one or two.
The wood bends in a parabolic curve, severe in the center and almost
straight near the ends of the bend.
If you do decide to steam anything make sure the jig is ready to go
and close to the steamer. Once out of the steam you only have seconds
before the lignin begins to reharden.
Clif
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bending Wood - was Lower longerons
Hi. I have to weight in my two cents worth.
Before I entered the world of aircraft building, I was heavily involved in musical instrument construction. ( http://www.donsplans.com ) Actually, there are a LOT of similarities, but I'll cut the the chase. I have bent a LOT of wood.
First, if you can bend the longerons without them cracking, this is fine. If
you take apart a 100 year old violin and try to straighten the sides, the sides
will crack! The wood will gradually conform to the new line. If you feel
that the strain is too much on the bend, moisture and heat will help. Your idea
of a long pipe is a good one. If you do this, I would boil the longerons
in water for at least 3 or 4 hours, and 5 or 6 would not be bad. Then, take out
the longerons, and immediately place it into the jig while it is still hot.
Then, you will have let it dry. This will take at least a week or two. Remember
that the moisture saturated wood will not glue properly until it is back
to the same moisture content as the rest of the wood. It will also tend to shrink
as it dries, so make sure that it has the same basic moisture content as
the rest of the wood before you build, or your fuselage will develop and arched
back as the bottom longerons dry.
After you are done, the wood will be just as strong as if you had not done the
treatment. However, as you can tell by the previous details, it will be a rather
large endeavor. My final "advice" on the project is don't try to steam
the wood. Bend it slowly into your jig, and don't let the stress build up on
any one point of the spruce. If you are careful about your work, and the spruce
broke while it was being installed in the jig, then it was defective, and you
just possibly saved your life! Go get a clear 2x4, and cut a 1 inch square
longeron or 3 from it. Practice with these until you can feel when the wood
is about to crack.
-Don Morris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 07, 2004
Subject: Longerons
I placed the lower longeron in the jig last night, without steaming -- no
problem. I just wondered what the consensus was as I've never built a "really
big plane" before and just wondered about bending the wood. I then got three
uprights made, along with an exact match for the other fuselage side. The
"laser-guided" compound electric mitre saw that my wife got me last Christmas is
fantastic! (Yes, dear, I really do plan to use it for that cove molding for the
downstairs bathroom and our bedroom.) Mark the wood carefully, lay the laser
line on the mark and presto! Cuts the right angle at the right length. I can't
imagine doing the cuts by hand, but then again that's how BHP and everyone else
has done it over the years -- I feel guilty using this modern convenience --
although if BHP had had one, he probably would have used it!
Thanks again for advice! Have a great Sunday everyone -- I'll be in the
basement building an airplane (although I may surface once the Packers start)!
Fred B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 07, 2004
Subject: Re: leading edge
In a message dated 11/5/04 9:37:34 AM Central Standard Time,
carbarvo(at)knology.net writes:
<< Have you ever heard that BHP used old election posters for his leading
edge? Carl >>
I heard it was the cardboard from the old Quaker Oats cans. Although, he
probably did vote for Franklin Roosevelt !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: how many yards of covering?
Date: Nov 07, 2004
about how many yards of covering does a Piet require?
DJ
_
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: how many yards of covering?
Date: Nov 07, 2004
nevermind... I just went ahead and ordered 42 yds. I figure that ought do it.
I also bought all the chemicals to bring it up to the "silver" stage. Freakin
expensive! $1600 for fabric and chemicals. probably be another $1000 for color
coat.... sheeesh!
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 8:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: how many yards of covering?
about how many yards of covering does a Piet require?
DJ
_
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
<004d01c4c519$b480a300$0100a8c0@Desktop>
Subject: Re: how many yards of covering?
Date: Nov 07, 2004
DJ: I wound up having to order about 5 yds on top of the initial order of 32 yds.
But I did the tail group 4 or 5 years earlier and I think I used about 5
yds then. I wound up with a small amount left over but had to do my center section
twice. So I think about40 to 42 should do you.
And Yup. It's quite pricey. Easy to spend $2000 on the cover .
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how many yards of covering?
nevermind... I just went ahead and ordered 42 yds. I figure that ought do it.
I also bought all the chemicals to bring it up to the "silver" stage. Freakin
expensive! $1600 for fabric and chemicals. probably be another $1000 for
color coat.... sheeesh!
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 8:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: how many yards of covering?
about how many yards of covering does a Piet require?
DJ
_
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
<004d01c4c519$b480a300$0100a8c0@Desktop>
Subject: Re: how many yards of covering?
Date: Nov 07, 2004
Now you know why some of us went the Sherwin Williams route of painting.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how many yards of covering?
nevermind... I just went ahead and ordered 42 yds. I figure that ought do it.
I also bought all the chemicals to bring it up to the "silver" stage. Freakin
expensive! $1600 for fabric and chemicals. probably be another $1000 for
color coat.... sheeesh!
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 8:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: how many yards of covering?
about how many yards of covering does a Piet require?
DJ
_
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: prop - ground clearance
Date: Nov 07, 2004
I have been told in the past the basic rule for prop ground clearance is 9 in.
Is this correct? Is that figure with tail up in parellel to ground? With my
new radial engine Piet, I may have to re-make the gear legs to get it that high.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
<004d01c4c519$b480a300$0100a8c0@Desktop>
Subject: Re: how many yards of covering?
Date: Nov 07, 2004
I just remember that I got the "cheap" fabric from AS&S for $3.10 per yard, and
used Poly Fiber for the paint process.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how many yards of covering?
nevermind... I just went ahead and ordered 42 yds. I figure that ought do it.
I also bought all the chemicals to bring it up to the "silver" stage. Freakin
expensive! $1600 for fabric and chemicals. probably be another $1000 for
color coat.... sheeesh!
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 8:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: how many yards of covering?
about how many yards of covering does a Piet require?
DJ
_
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
<004d01c4c519$b480a300$0100a8c0@Desktop> <002401c4c538$68c3f650$2cc5fea9@home>
Subject: Re: how many yards of covering?
Date: Nov 07, 2004
that's exactly what I did too
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how many yards of covering?
I just remember that I got the "cheap" fabric from AS&S for $3.10 per yard, and
used Poly Fiber for the paint process.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how many yards of covering?
nevermind... I just went ahead and ordered 42 yds. I figure that ought do
it.
I also bought all the chemicals to bring it up to the "silver" stage. Freakin
expensive! $1600 for fabric and chemicals. probably be another $1000 for
color coat.... sheeesh!
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 8:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: how many yards of covering?
about how many yards of covering does a Piet require?
DJ
_
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2004
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: leading edge
Hola Javier,
I am going to buy some 1/16" ply from Houston Area for a friend here n
Guadalajara that is building a Flying Flea, I have the address in my
office, I will phone you monday and we can buy all at the time and get
it here by a friend of mine...
Thank you very much for your visit to our Club's fly in, was great to
meet you in person and your wonderfull and supporting family, we all
enjoyed having you all here. Hope is the first of lots of fly ins
around here.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Javier Cruz wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for your help Friends
> I will try to get 1/16 plywood here (Mexico), if not, i will call to
> Wicks ,
> maybe they can send the plywood cut for less expensive shipping. I
> have on
> hand some sheets of formica, but i don't know if it is enought hard
> for
> leading edge.
> Javier Cruz
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: drag wires
Date: Nov 08, 2004
How many builders have used
3/32" cable instead of 1/8" for the wing drag wires? It would save a lot of weight
and the rating of 3/32 is 920 lbs breaking strength (for stainless). Isn't
this more than adequate?
On another topic, why does there seem to be only one company that
makes cable shackles? ACSS has had them on back order for a year with no
end in sight. The only way I can see to get around this is to use swaged forkedcable
ends and use a clevis pin for attachment to the metal wing tab.
Jeff in TX
Find the music you love on MSN Music. Start downloading now!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "john s" <smoyer98(at)snip.net>
Subject: Cooling systems for Model A Piets
Date: Nov 08, 2004
1. Should I use a thermostat in the cooling system of an Air Camper powered by
a Model A engine? If so, what should the thermostat's "opening" temperature
be?
2. How does one "spec out" a radiator for this arrangement? That is: inside
diameter, wall thickness, arrangement, and number of cooling tubes, etc. I've
looked at a friends Model A automobile, and the radiator looks about 4 times
too big for a Pietenpol.
3. Can anyone recommend a source for a Pietenpol radiator?
Thanks very much for your inputs, folks.
John S
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: another fatal accident at my home airport
Date: Nov 08, 2004
seems like just a few weeks ago I was commenting on how my home airport seems to
have had a bad run of fatals in the last 2 yrs.
Another one went down on Saturday during the CAF's Veterans event. The aircraft
that wentdown was a small GA plane and I don't think it was involved in the
airshow.
It took off, stalled and spun in.
This is like the 8th fatality. We just had one a few weeks back. This is ridiculous.
Falcon Field is now setting the record for the most fatalities from
one airport.
There's no way in hell I'm making my first flights there!
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: drag wires
Date: Nov 08, 2004
you could also use a turnbuckle with fork end. I've had good success with buying
shackles on ebay.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Hill
To: pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 9:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: drag wires
How many builders have used 3/32" cable instead of 1/8" for the wing drag wires?
It would save a lot of weight and the rating of 3/32 is 920 lbs breaking strength
(for stainless). Isn't this more than adequate?
On another topic, why does there seem to be only one company that makes cable
shackles? ACS&S has had them on back order for a year with no end in sight. The
only way I can see to get around this is to use swaged forked cable ends and
use a clevis pin for attachment to the metal wing tab.
Jeff in TX
Find the music you love on MSN Music. Start downloading now! Forums. http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 08, 2004
Subject: Re: drag wires
Jeff in Texass, this is Corky in La,
I will probably get much negative feed back from the puristists but this
shackle problem was passed on to me from Joe C and it works well. Go to Home
Depot, in the cable section and you will find some fairleads packaged on cards.
Buy
the 1/2 in size. Take home and vice the round part, straighten out the two
ears and you have a two perfect schackles for about $1.50. They are stainless
steel and strong with 3/16 holes. Try a strength test to convince yourself. You
will find that you can fly all over Texass without losing a wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 08, 2004
Subject: Re: another fatal accident at my home airport
Please tell us where is Falcon field
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: another fatal accident at my home airport
Date: Nov 08, 2004
FFZ is the identifier. It's about 1 mile north of my house. That's where I hangar
my Grumman Cheetah. Too bad the hangar won't fit both the Cheetah and the
Aircamper because I'm having a major crisis in finding a hangar at Falcon.
There's a 7 year waiting list.... but that's another story.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: another fatal accident at my home airport
Please tell us where is Falcon field
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: drag wires
Thanks for that tip. You say they are called
fairleads? "Vice the round part?" I'll go check out
Home Depot soon. Again, thanks for the tip.
Doc
--- Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
> Jeff in Texass, this is Corky in La,
>
> I will probably get much negative feed back from the
> puristists but this
> shackle problem was passed on to me from Joe C and
> it works well. Go to Home
> Depot, in the cable section and you will find some
> fairleads packaged on cards. Buy
> the 1/2 in size. Take home and vice the round part,
> straighten out the two
> ears and you have a two perfect schackles for about
> $1.50. They are stainless
> steel and strong with 3/16 holes. Try a strength
> test to convince yourself. You
> will find that you can fly all over Texass without
> losing a wing.
>
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cooling systems for Model A Piets
John, Ken Perkins gave me the name o Forrest Loveley.
His email is ftloveley(at)aol.com. I wrote him and he
does make radiators for this installation but needed
an order for about six radiators to do a run of them.
I want one, but I don't know how many others there are
who also want one. If you contact him, tell him I'll
take one too.
Doc
--- john s wrote:
> 1. Should I use a thermostat in the cooling system
> of an Air Camper powered by a Model A engine? If
> so, what should the thermostat's "opening"
> temperature be?
> 2. How does one "spec out" a radiator for this
> arrangement? That is: inside diameter, wall
> thickness, arrangement, and number of cooling tubes,
> etc. I've looked at a friends Model A automobile,
> and the radiator looks about 4 times too big for a
> Pietenpol.
> 3. Can anyone recommend a source for a Pietenpol
> radiator?
> Thanks very much for your inputs, folks.
> John S
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: drag wires
Date: Nov 08, 2004
I used 3/32" it does save weight. With all the cross bracing it's plenty.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Hill
To: pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 10:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: drag wires
How many builders have used 3/32" cable instead of 1/8" for the wing drag wires?
It would save a lot of weight and the rating of 3/32 is 920 lbs breaking strength
(for stainless). Isn't this more than adequate?
On another topic, why does there seem to be only one company that makes cable
shackles? ACS&S has had them on back order for a year with no end in sight. The
only way I can see to get around this is to use swaged forked cable ends and
use a clevis pin for attachment to the metal wing tab.
Jeff in TX
Find the music you love on MSN Music. Start downloading now! Forums. http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: drag wires
Galen, here's a pair of messages from the archives., Dec 96.
I believe some are flying now with these. If you want more
input (much more!) go to the search link at the bottom of any
message and put "shackle" into the search window.
Clif
John, and others.
Your description obout the roller links is just what I did too. I
went down to the local bearing supply house with a piece of cable I
had put an eye into to see how things sized up. I came out with to
very acceptable links. I choose two sizes. I use the RS41 rated
average strength of 2640lbs for the control linkages such as aileron
controls, and the RS50 (7050lbs, way overkill I know) for the flying
wire to structure connection. The pins on the RS50 are just larger
than 3/16" in diameter. From the Aircraft Spruce Catalog 1/8"
stainless cable load rating is 1790lbs and the AN115 -21 ($3.85) shackle is
2100lbs. I feel comfortable with using these links. If you use the
RS41 in a cable to cable connection it does not need any shims
(washers) The RS50 is much bigger and I used washers as shims to
keep the loads straight like John. For the RS41's I paid $.55 and
the RS50's were a whopping $.70 each.
Stevee
> Steve,
>
> Here is a shot at a reply.
>
> I have incorporated a number of moter-sickle chain master links in my ship
in
> leiu of shackles. The ones I have used are a 420. If I remember
correctly,
> they are rated at 4200 lbs per the moter-sickle people's books. In other
> words they are much stronger than shackles. They cost about a buck or a
buck
> and a dime compared to the 4 to 6 bucks the shackles cost.
>
> The only drawback I have seen is that they are not quite shaped perfectly
for
> the job. These look a little screwy if they are pulled at an angle rather
> than in a straight line. This is probably not a serious problem. I have
put
> a few AN flat washers on the link to kind of shim out some of the space.
>
> What do y'all think about this? It would be interesting to hear some more
> discussion.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving!
>
> John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Galen Hutcheson" <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag wires
>
> Thanks for that tip. You say they are called
> fairleads? "Vice the round part?" I'll go check out
> Home Depot soon. Again, thanks for the tip.
>
> Doc
> --- Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> > Jeff in Texass, this is Corky in La,
> >
> > I will probably get much negative feed back from the
> > puristists but this
> > shackle problem was passed on to me from Joe C and
> > it works well. Go to Home
> > Depot, in the cable section and you will find some
> > fairleads packaged on cards. Buy
> > the 1/2 in size. Take home and vice the round part,
> > straighten out the two
> > ears and you have a two perfect schackles for about
> > $1.50. They are stainless
> > steel and strong with 3/16 holes. Try a strength
> > test to convince yourself. You
> > will find that you can fly all over Texass without
> > losing a wing.
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> www.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re. Drag Wires
Hi Clif,
Thanks for those two tips from the archives. I had
heard something about motor cycle chain master links
before but had not had a chance to check them out. I
agree with those who find suitable substitutes for the
overpriced aircraft hardware. Sometimes it is easy to
forget that BHP designed this airplane to be built
from the hardware store and lumber yard. Otherwise
we could all be building RV-6's :0). I do appreciate
these tips and will pass any on that I may happen
onto. Thanks.
Doc
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAtAhUArbzhP7byyK+067LISvLH39xNKV4CFBSdpldboXCGd7cxHIzp+BZhgL6I
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Nov 09, 2004
Subject: Model A cooling
When Frank Pavliga did the old Buckeye Piet. Newsletter, he use to write
a lot about the model A. (Sky Gypsy had an A in it at the time) He said
not to use a thermostat. They sometimes stick. If it sticks open it's no
big deal, but if t sticks closed "she'll boil and down you go." I
bought an already converted engine with a nice copper/brass radiator.
It's nice but it weighs 18 lbs!!! That's HEAVY!! I'm going to use a
24in radiator that I bought from Leading Edge Airfoils.( all of the
ultra light places sell it) Its for a VW Golf diesel and weighs only 4
lbs. Lowell Frank used this rad. in his hopped up model B Piet.(now with
the Warner radial engine) It cooled it just fine. I talked to a custom
radiator manufacture at a large car show a while back and he said that
he could make up anything I want out of aluminum. Shiny brass sure
looks good, but I would rater have a nicely painted aluminum rad any
time for half or less the weight....or, what would you give me for a
nice new unused copper brass Pietenpol radiator? Leon Stefan Nickerson
Ks.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Model A cooling
Leon, I might be interested in buying your radiator.
Email me at wacopitts(at)yahoo.com. Thanks.
Doc
--- Leon Stefan wrote:
> lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
>
> When Frank Pavliga did the old Buckeye Piet.
> Newsletter, he use to write
> a lot about the model A. (Sky Gypsy had an A in it
> at the time) He said
> not to use a thermostat. They sometimes stick. If it
> sticks open it's no
> big deal, but if t sticks closed "she'll boil and
> down you go." I
> bought an already converted engine with a nice
> copper/brass radiator.
> It's nice but it weighs 18 lbs!!! That's HEAVY!!
> I'm going to use a
> 24in radiator that I bought from Leading Edge
> Airfoils.( all of the
> ultra light places sell it) Its for a VW Golf diesel
> and weighs only 4
> lbs. Lowell Frank used this rad. in his hopped up
> model B Piet.(now with
> the Warner radial engine) It cooled it just fine. I
> talked to a custom
> radiator manufacture at a large car show a while
> back and he said that
> he could make up anything I want out of aluminum.
> Shiny brass sure
> looks good, but I would rater have a nicely painted
> aluminum rad any
> time for half or less the weight....or, what would
> you give me for a
> nice new unused copper brass Pietenpol radiator?
> Leon Stefan Nickerson
> Ks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 09, 2004
Subject: Re: drag wires
Jeff,
For the drag wires, I used 3/32" 7X19 steel cable. I attached the
thimble / cable / nicopress right to the fitting. Radius, or camphor the straight
cut (drilled) hole in the fitting with a very fine file, to fit the radius of
the thimble - no need for the shackle. Pre-fit the length of cable needed,
and nicopress before attaching the fitting to the wood. The other end use a
turnbuckle with a fork in one end for the fitting, and the other end of the
turnbuckle use an eye fitting for cable - not for a pin. (the pin eye for a
turnbuckle has a straight cut drilled hole for a pin). The cable eye has the
camphor in it to fit the radius of the thimble, similar to what I described earlier.
The fitting should be bent so it pulls directly in alignment with the cable.
This is a permanent install, but should have an inspection plate in the
fabric, at each end of the cable, and should be checked frequently, especially
during the flight test period. Check cable tension using the 'Twang' method.
I
use the 'Twang' method, and have never had the need to re-adjust the drag /
anti-drag cable tension, however I still check it at least a couple of times a
year. I have 200 + hours flight time on the airframe.
Interesting note about how B.H.P. designed the outboard fittings...they
not only locate a point for the drag / anti-drag cables, they secure the
wingtip bows, and even if the nuts come off, the fittings will not pull off the
structure, because of how the bolts are at 90 to each other. However, please
use
locking nuts, and flat washers against the wood !!
I used motorcycle master links (just the half with holes in it) in
several locations for flight control cables. Use aircraft #10 bolts (3/16") with
the shank all the way through, and castle nuts with cotter pins.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Paulsen" <dpaul(at)fidnet.com>
Subject: Turnbuckles
Date: Nov 09, 2004
I would like to get some advice about turnbuckles. I've constructed a Piet Fuse
with the spoked wheels, wood gear and straight through axle. It's time to install
the 1/8" cables that cris-cross from one side of the gear to the other
side. I need to put turnbuckles in these cables but don't know what kind to use.
Some have loops at each end and some have pins. How large should they be?
The turnbuckles in Wicks catalogue seem pretty expensive. It would be great
if there was another source. Also, I purchased 1/4" bungee chord to wrap around
the axle and gear. Now that it's arrived I think I should have ordered 1/8".
Any opinions.
Thanks - Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Peterson" <Davidwpp(at)msn.com>
Subject: Possible Builder
Date: Nov 09, 2004
I am a potential Pietenpol builder. Is there any written set of instructions that
have more detail than that reproduced from the 1930's? I have not yet built
anything much less a Pietenpol. However, I am of the opinion that if I take
my time to learn I could, in fact, build a Piet. Does anyone have any advice
as to the best way for a novice builder to begin?
David W. Peterson
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Possible Builder
David,
I am a novice builder too. I had helped restore a
couple of airplanes, but that was the extent of my
building experience. I, too, had doubts of my being
able to build this project. Believe me, the Pietenpol
is very simple and leaves much for individual
expression. Purchase a set of plans and that builders
manual, the one reprinted from the 1930's and follow
this news group, as well as the archives, order
Bengelis building books and all your old Sport
Aviation magizine articles, you should be well
prepared. Many of us have hundreds of building pics
and I even have some video of some steps and would be
willing to share them with you, just let me know.
Good luck and go ahead and take the plunge, it's
easier than you think.
Doc
--- David Peterson wrote:
> I am a potential Pietenpol builder. Is there any
> written set of instructions that have more detail
> than that reproduced from the 1930's? I have not
> yet built anything much less a Pietenpol. However,
> I am of the opinion that if I take my time to learn
> I could, in fact, build a Piet. Does anyone have
> any advice as to the best way for a novice builder
> to begin?
>
> David W. Peterson
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Turnbuckles
Date: Nov 09, 2004
Dave
I don't think you would want 1/8" bungee. I went with 1/2". It was a real bear
to stretch around but you definetly dont want spongy suspension. I am a bit
concerned that mine might be too stiff but aside from one bad landing so far
it has felt the way I want it.
On the turnbuckles, I dont know if there are any regional airshows coming up soon
near you, but there are vendors at most larger shows selling most of that
sort of thing. You will want a fork in one end and eye in the other end. One
suggestion is to buy some cable clamps at the hardware store that temporarily
clamp the wire in place until you are real sure of the fit. It wil save lots
of re-making the part.
The Wicks part # for the short assembly is AN140-32S on page 121
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: David Paulsen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 7:08 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
I would like to get some advice about turnbuckles. I've constructed a Piet Fuse
with the spoked wheels, wood gear and straight through axle. It's time to
install the 1/8" cables that cris-cross from one side of the gear to the other
side. I need to put turnbuckles in these cables but don't know what kind to
use. Some have loops at each end and some have pins. How large should they
be? The turnbuckles in Wicks catalogue seem pretty expensive. It would be great
if there was another source. Also, I purchased 1/4" bungee chord to wrap
around the axle and gear. Now that it's arrived I think I should have ordered
1/8". Any opinions.
Thanks - Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Possible Builder
Date: Nov 09, 2004
Many of us have hundreds of building pics
> and I even have some video of some steps and would be
> willing to share them with you, just let me know.
Oh really???? Like what steps and do you have them copied to CD or DVD????
Something I might want to see?
jm
> Good luck and go ahead and take the plunge, it's
> easier than you think.
>
> Doc
> --- David Peterson wrote:
>
>> I am a potential Pietenpol builder. Is there any
>> written set of instructions that have more detail
>> than that reproduced from the 1930's? I have not
>> yet built anything much less a Pietenpol. However,
>> I am of the opinion that if I take my time to learn
>> I could, in fact, build a Piet. Does anyone have
>> any advice as to the best way for a novice builder
>> to begin?
>>
>> David W. Peterson
>
>
> __________________________________
> www.yahoo.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Possible Builder
Hi Jim,
I can copy them to CD if you want. But I think you
are way ahead of me. I'm just now glueing in my seat
brackets. So if you want them I can send you a CD or
email some to you.
Doc
--- Jim Markle wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Many of us have hundreds of building pics
> > and I even have some video of some steps and would
> be
> > willing to share them with you, just let me know.
>
> Oh really???? Like what steps and do you have them
> copied to CD or DVD????
> Something I might want to see?
>
> jm
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Good luck and go ahead and take the plunge, it's
> > easier than you think.
> >
> > Doc
> > --- David Peterson wrote:
> >
> >> I am a potential Pietenpol builder. Is there any
> >> written set of instructions that have more detail
> >> than that reproduced from the 1930's? I have not
> >> yet built anything much less a Pietenpol.
> However,
> >> I am of the opinion that if I take my time to
> learn
> >> I could, in fact, build a Piet. Does anyone have
> >> any advice as to the best way for a novice
> builder
> >> to begin?
> >>
> >> David W. Peterson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > www.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Possible Builder
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Well, back in my day we had what are called "records" (even before
8-tracks), round disks that you put on a player and set an arm with a needle
on it that followed a groove in the record and -voila- out came music! But
when you would get some Frito crumbs or strawberry jam on the record, or if
the record got a crack in it, the needle would "skip" and the machine would
play the same thing over and over again. (Talking nonsense here for the
sake of the modern cassette/CD/DVD generation).
I'll sound like a broken record here by saying this again... I believe one
of the very best things a "Pietenpol seeker", aka "Possible Builder" can do
is to buy Mike Cuy's video, take off your watch and put it away, pop the
video in the player and sit back with something cool to sip on. Watching
that video will tell you several things:
1) If you start leaning forward in your chair during the flying sequences,
or rewind back to the takeoff and watch the flying and smoke sequences over
and over, you're a candidate for building. You get bonus points if someone
in the other room asks you to please turn down the volume.
2) If you follow Mike's hangar walk-around and start to see all the little
details of the airplane and you find yourself saying, "great idea!", then
your mind is working in the right direction already. Bonus points if you
start looking for a scratch pad to make notes on.
3) If you are patient and watch the first two parts of the video and make it
through to the final third, which is Mike's narration of the building
process on his airplane where he explains things seen in still pictures that
he took, and you find yourself moving closer and closer to the TV to check
out the construction details, you're definitely a candidate for building.
Couple of other things about Pietenpols: they are not fast-build kits. They
are not fast airplanes. They are not big, wide, and roomy. But they are
honest, straightforward, and an enduring design with excellent builder
support. They are also probably one of the most affordable 2-place
homebuilts out there and do not require much in the way of specialized tools
or skills to build.
Now -skip, skip- Mike's video is $20 plus $4 shipping. Order from:
Michael Cuy
298 Runn St.
Berea, OH 44017
or check out details at http://users.aol.com/bpabpabpa/cuyvideo.html
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Model A cooling
Date: Nov 10, 2004
My Piet is going to be "A" powered, and the comments re the VW radiator are completely
correct in my experience. Larry Williams, who is often in this chat group,
flies a beautiful "A" piet and I think his radiator is a Golf radiator.
It sure is light and cheap.
I myself purchased a brass Forrest Lovly radiator and it sure is heavy and expensive,
BUT it'll be worth it to me for the appearance and nostalgia. At least
it's forward of the CG.
Everything I've ever read says do NOT use a thermostat because of the sticking
possisiblities. I used to run british sports cars and can't tell you how many
stuck thermostats I saw or experienced.
Also, there is a lot of debate re a pressurized cooling system or an open one.
It is probably true that running a little bit of pressure, say 2 or 3 pounds
would improve the cooling a bit, I am going with an unpressurized system because
I've heard of too many people loosing gaskets or seals somewhere in the cooling
system. I just drilled two small holes in my radiator cap. This is
what Forrest Lovly suggests and he's been around a lot of them. The alternative
would be to find a light safety valve that releases at 2 or 3 pounds and let
it into the radiator cap, but I'd sure shy away from any more pressure than that.
Also, seriously consider using a model "T" type water pump which mounts low down
on the side of the engine rather than the "A" type which mounts up top at the
"rear". One pushes hot liquid and one pulls it. Pushing is much more efficient
and will result in lower coolant temps. It is also nice because you can
plump a small water cock in the line coming from the "T" pump at the lowest point
of the system and use it to drain your coolant in the winter if you use water.
Syders sells two types of "T" pumps.
$ .02
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: inconspicuous earphones
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Hello,
I know this was discussed a month or so ago, but does anyone remember the place
that sells the earphones that go in the ear, under a flying helmet?
Thanks,
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Waytogopiet(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Subject: Re: prop - ground clearance
Hi Dick
Just measured mine yesterday (for the umpteenth time). Exactly 9 inches with
the tail up.
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Subject: Re: prop - ground clearance
I was told it was nine inches with one flat tire and the tail up.
Max
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2004
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re. Drag Wires
Hello Doc,
One of a few Great examples of first class Craftmanship in our
Pietenpol group is Mountain Piet, John used motorcycle chain master in
the alerion cables.
Here is a photo, I keep this set of photos.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Galen Hutcheson wrote:
>
>
> Hi Clif,
>
> Thanks for those two tips from the archives. I had
> heard something about motor cycle chain master links
> before but had not had a chance to check them out. I
> agree with those who find suitable substitutes for the
> overpriced aircraft hardware. Sometimes it is easy to
> forget that BHP designed this airplane to be built
> from the hardware store and lumber yard. Otherwise
> we could all be building RV-6's :0). I do appreciate
> these tips and will pass any on that I may happen
> onto. Thanks.
>
> Doc
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> www.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAsAhRndmMsgYcVHEzmcPdU8FT40EPeywIUIyl3cDT0ImlPcjVTtShch5ZRrKA=
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Subject: Turnbuckles etc.
Hello: A good source for turnbuckles is B & B Aircraft of Gardner Ks.
(Ks. City) I was up there in June and he had a tray full of them for
$8.95 each. In a 1995 Buckeye news letter, John Greenlee gave an address
for the Co. that made his radiator. ..Bell Mfg. Bowie Tx. Ask for Dave.
817-872-2227, 1800-433-0939. They make radiators for oil well pump
engines. Greenlee said several builders have since bought from them.
They have the drawings on file and could whip one out for you for $250.
Not as pretty as a Lovely radiator, solder seams and marks are visible,
but Greenlee thought the rough huen look went well with the Piet which
has a 30's rough huen look any way. I would imagine if your engine has
the modern Ken Pirkens water pump you could run pressure, but not with
the original pump with the old packing gland seal. Larry Williams rad.
is not a VW golf rad., but it is similar. He had overheating problems in
the beginning, but that went away after brake in. NEW POTENTIAL
BUILDER....The plans are pure @%!&> Pretty good for a 15 year old kid
who drew them up from a completed airplane, but BHP who build around 23
airplanes never bothered to redraw a cleaned up, corrected set of plans.
Builders are still making the same mistakes 75 years later. You can get
around plans problems by asking lots of questions from people on this
list who have figured these things out. I would be afraid to buy a
project from some one who wasn't on this list. Leon Stefan Nickerson
Ks. with a barrel full of scrap, junk do overs because I interpreted he
vague areas of the plans wrong.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "john s" <smoyer98(at)snip.net>
Subject: Re: Model A cooling
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Thanks, Douwe to you and to all the other members for their inputs. I will not
be using a thermostat.
Best Regards,
John S
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 9:10 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A cooling
My Piet is going to be "A" powered, and the comments re the VW radiator are completely
correct in my experience. Larry Williams, who is often in this chat
group, flies a beautiful "A" piet and I think his radiator is a Golf radiator.
It sure is light and cheap.
I myself purchased a brass Forrest Lovly radiator and it sure is heavy and expensive,
BUT it'll be worth it to me for the appearance and nostalgia. At least
it's forward of the CG.
Everything I've ever read says do NOT use a thermostat because of the sticking
possisiblities. I used to run british sports cars and can't tell you how many
stuck thermostats I saw or experienced.
Also, there is a lot of debate re a pressurized cooling system or an open one.
It is probably true that running a little bit of pressure, say 2 or 3 pounds
would improve the cooling a bit, I am going with an unpressurized system because
I've heard of too many people loosing gaskets or seals somewhere in the cooling
system. I just drilled two small holes in my radiator cap. This is
what Forrest Lovly suggests and he's been around a lot of them. The alternative
would be to find a light safety valve that releases at 2 or 3 pounds and let
it into the radiator cap, but I'd sure shy away from any more pressure than
that.
Also, seriously consider using a model "T" type water pump which mounts low down
on the side of the engine rather than the "A" type which mounts up top at
the "rear". One pushes hot liquid and one pulls it. Pushing is much more efficient
and will result in lower coolant temps. It is also nice because you can
plump a small water cock in the line coming from the "T" pump at the lowest
point of the system and use it to drain your coolant in the winter if you use
water.
Syders sells two types of "T" pumps.
$ .02
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2004
From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: Model A cooling
Has anyone discussed with you the art of cutting out cardboard circles to
attach to the radiator? I don't guess I've ever heard of a Model A with a
thermostat. Carl Vought
>
>
>
> Thanks, Douwe to you and to all the other members for their inputs. I
will not be using a thermostat.
> Best Regards,
> John S
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Douwe Blumberg
> To: pietenpolgroup
> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 9:10 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A cooling
>
>
> My Piet is going to be "A" powered, and the comments re the VW radiator
are completely correct in my experience. Larry Williams, who is often in
this chat group, flies a beautiful "A" piet and I think his radiator is a
Golf radiator. It sure is light and cheap.
>
> I myself purchased a brass Forrest Lovly radiator and it sure is heavy
and expensive, BUT it'll be worth it to me for the appearance and
nostalgia. At least it's forward of the CG.
>
> Everything I've ever read says do NOT use a thermostat because of the
sticking possisiblities. I used to run british sports cars and can't tell
you how many stuck thermostats I saw or experienced.
>
> Also, there is a lot of debate re a pressurized cooling system or an
open one. It is probably true that running a little bit of pressure, say 2
or 3 pounds would improve the cooling a bit, I am going with an
unpressurized system because I've heard of too many people loosing gaskets
or seals somewhere in the cooling system. I just drilled two small holes
in my radiator cap. This is
> what Forrest Lovly suggests and he's been around a lot of them. The
alternative would be to find a light safety valve that releases at 2 or 3
pounds and let it into the radiator cap, but I'd sure shy away from any
more pressure than that.
>
> Also, seriously consider using a model "T" type water pump which mounts
low down on the side of the engine rather than the "A" type which mounts up
top at the "rear". One pushes hot liquid and one pulls it. Pushing is
much more efficient and will result in lower coolant temps. It is also
nice because you can plump a small water cock in the line coming from
the "T" pump at the lowest point of the system and use it to drain your
coolant in the winter if you use water.
>
> Syders sells two types of "T" pumps.
>
> $ .02
>
> Douwe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re. Drag Wires
Hi Gary,
Thanks for that pic. The master link looks good as
well as being plenty strong. That is probably the way
I am going to go. I'm sure BHP would have done the
same thing if he had to pay the prices we have to pay
from A/C supply houses.
Doc
--- Gary Gower wrote:
>
> > www.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> protection around
> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=Turbopiet17.jpg
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: registration numbers
Date: Nov 11, 2004
Hey,
I'm starting to think about reserving some reg numbers. I know we can use NX,
but what are the rules re the numbers and letters following.
what is the minimum number of numbers we can use, and do we have the option of
letters following, or can we just go with numbers.
thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: registration numbers
Date: Nov 11, 2004
as I understand it you can do 5 numbers or up to 3 numbers if using 2 letters at
the end. or 4 numbers with one letter at the end.
you could also do 1, 2 or 3 numbers if 2 letters are used at the end. for example
N1DB
N12DB
N123DB
or
N1234B
or
N12345
No more than 2 letters though.... (I think)
There may be other rules but those are the ones I know of. ohhh and our N numbers
can be as small as 3" tall.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 9:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: registration numbers
Hey,
I'm starting to think about reserving some reg numbers. I know we can use NX,
but what are the rules re the numbers and letters following.
what is the minimum number of numbers we can use, and do we have the option of
letters following, or can we just go with numbers.
thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: registration numbers
Date: Nov 11, 2004
You can write a letter to the FAA (like I did) and request any or all of the number.
My letter requested a number that ended in DL to honor my mentor. They
came back with N140DL (you add the X) Think it's a $10.00 charge for the request
and then $10.00 per year to hold it.
OR you can go to
WWW.landings.com
and punch in any number that grabs you and it will tell you if it is issued or
not
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 11:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: registration numbers
Hey,
I'm starting to think about reserving some reg numbers. I know we can use NX,
but what are the rules re the numbers and letters following.
what is the minimum number of numbers we can use, and do we have the option of
letters following, or can we just go with numbers.
thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2004
From: Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net>
Subject: Re: registration numbers
Douwe,
I reserved my numbers a few months ago and I still had this FAA website
in my favorites list.
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraft.asp
Mike Luther
N1953M
Douwe Blumberg wrote:
> Hey, I'm starting to think about reserving some reg numbers. I know
> we can use NX, but what are the rules re the numbers and letters
> following. what is the minimum number of numbers we can use, and do we
> have the option of letters following, or can we just go with
> numbers. thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
From: alexms1(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: registration numbers
Date: Nov 12, 2004
D.J.
If you use NX----- in your number you will not have to have the word EXPERIMENTAL
posted inside of the plane. The X serves the same purpose.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
as I understand it you can do 5 numbers or up to 3 numbers if using 2 letters at
the end. or 4 numbers with one letter at the end.
you could also do 1, 2 or 3 numbers if 2 letters are used at the end. for example
N1DB
N12DB
N123DB
or
N1234B
or
N12345
No more than 2 letters though.... (I think)
There may be other rules but those are the ones I know of. ohhh and our N numbers
can be as small as 3" tall.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
Subject: Pietenpol-List: registration numbers
Hey,
I'm starting to think about reserving some reg numbers. I know we can use NX, but
what are the rules re the numbers and letters following.
what is the minimum number of numbers we can use, and do we have the option of
letters following, or can we just go with numbers.
thanks
D.J.
If you use NX----- in your number you will not have to have the wordEXPERIMENTAL
posted inside of the plane. The X serves the same purpose.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
as I understand it you can do 5 numbers or up to 3
numbers if using 2 letters at the end. or 4 numbers with one letter at the end.
you could also do 1, 2 or 3 numbers if 2 letters are
used at the end. for example
N1DB
N12DB
N123DB
or
N1234B
or
N12345
No more than 2 letters though.... (I think)
There may be other rules but those are the ones
I know of. ohhh and our N numbers can
be as small as 3" tall.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: <A title=douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net ">Douwe Blumberg
Subject: Pietenpol-List: registration numbers
Hey,
I'm starting to think about reserving some reg numbers.
I know we can use NX, but what are the rules re the numbers and letters
following.
what is the minimum number of numbers we can use,
and do we have the option of letters following, or can we just go with numbers.
thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Stinemetze" <stinemetze(at)mpks.net>
Subject: Re: inconspicuous earphones
Date: Nov 11, 2004
Just a quick reply from a "lurker" on the site. I believe that the
company you are looking for is FlightSuits.com at the following URL.
http://www.flightsuits.com/open_leather.html They have leather helmets
both with and without microphones and earphones.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: registration numbers
Date: Nov 11, 2004
Yeah But make sure your DAR is interpreting the FAR the same way. Some DARs and
FAA guys are not on the same page
----- Original Message -----
From: alexms1(at)comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: registration numbers
D.J.
If you use NX----- in your number you will not have to have the word EXPERIMENTAL
posted inside of the plane. The X serves the same purpose.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
as I understand it you can do 5 numbers or up to 3 numbers if using 2 letters
at the end. or 4 numbers with one letter at the end.
you could also do 1, 2 or 3 numbers if 2 letters are used at the end. for example
N1DB
N12DB
N123DB
or
N1234B
or
N12345
No more than 2 letters though.... (I think)
There may be other rules but those are the ones I know of. ohhh and our N numbers
can be as small as 3" tall.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 9:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: registration numbers
Hey,
I'm starting to think about reserving some reg numbers. I know we can use
NX, but what are the rules re the numbers and letters following.
what is the minimum number of numbers we can use, and do we have the option
of letters following, or can we just go with numbers.
thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Subject: registration numbers
Date: Nov 12, 2004
I expected to have a real problem with the FAA when they were inspecting my
Pietenpol. I have the numbers "NX899JP" in 3" numbers on the rudder, and
30" numbers on the wings. I do NOT have the EXPERIMENTAL sign anywhere on
the aircraft. I had all kinds of documentation and pictures of other
Pietenpols (Mike Cuy's) using the NX numbers for the argument. The
inspector just shrugged his shoulders and said "it's legal". Note that this
was a guy from the Greensboro FSDO, not a DAR
For more information on registering your homebuilr, go to the EAA's website,
member's only section under Homebuilders Headquarters.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: Bert Conoly [mailto:bconoly(at)earthlink.net]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: registration numbers
Yeah But make sure your DAR is interpreting the FAR the same way. Some DARs
and FAA guys are not on the same page
I expected to have a real problem with the
FAA when they were inspecting my Pietenpol. I have the numbers
"NX899JP" in 3" numbers on the rudder, and 30" numbers
on the wings. I do NOT have the EXPERIMENTAL sign anywhere on the
aircraft. I had all kinds of documentation and pictures of other Pietenpols
(Mike Cuy's) using the NX numbers for the argument. The inspector
just shrugged his shoulders and said "it's legal". Note that
this was a guy from the Greensboro FSDO, not a DAR
For more information on registering your
homebuilr, go to the EAA's website, member's only section under
Homebuilders Headquarters.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: Bert Conoly
[mailto:bconoly(at)earthlink.net]
11:14 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
registration numbers
Yeah But make sure your DAR is
interpreting the FAR the same way. Some DARs and FAA guys are not on the
same page
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Possible Builder
David,
Welcome to the list. My recommendation is to JUST START! Build the parts that
you consider the simplest first. Once you start making sawdust and metal shavings,
you'll get into the hang of it. The skills you develop on the simpler
parts lead you into the ability to make the more complex parts. The sooner you
start, the sooner you'll be flying!
--
Terry L. Bowden
p.s. Where are you located?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Subject: Re: Possible Builder
David and any other "possible builder..."
I have a GN-1 Air Camper (like a Pietenpol) project listed on Barnstormers.
This project would really give someone a great "jump-start" on an Air Camper.
The project is an 80% finished fuselage and nearly all of the wing ribs, built
by DJ Vegh. The ribs are pristine examples of fine craftsmanship, as is the
fuselage. The fuselage looks as if a highly skilled cabinet maker built it. I'll
let the project go for less than it is listed on Barnstormers.
Lots of extra stuff comes with this project to include a new J3 landing gear
mounted to the fuselage, many laser cut metal parts, brakes, torque tube is
already mounted. Tail feathers are already built.
Visit www.barnstormers.com and do a search for Pietenpol and you'll see this
project. I've included a link to DJ's website that has some very good photos
of the fuselage. I can send pictures of the ribs and other parts to anyone who
asks.
Sterling Brooks
Knot-2-Shabby Airport
Central Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: prop - ground clearance
Good one Bill...
That was Hilarious!
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Peterson" <Davidwpp(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Possible Builder
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Terry:
Currently we live in Schaumburg, IL. Next May we are moving to Poplar Grove, IL.
From Poplar Grove, using our C-140, we are 20 minutes from Brodhead.
David W. Peterson
----- Original Message -----
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com<mailto:BARNSTMR(at)aol.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Possible Builder
David,
Welcome to the list. My recommendation is to JUST START! Build the parts that
you consider the simplest first. Once you start making sawdust and metal shavings,
you'll get into the hang of it. The skills you develop on the simpler
parts lead you into the ability to make the more complex parts. The sooner
you start, the sooner you'll be flying!
--
Terry L. Bowden
p.s. Where are you located?
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/subscription>
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm>
http://www.matronics.com/search>
http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list>
http://www.matronics.com/archives>
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare>
http://www.matronics.com/pietenpol-list>
http://www.matronics.com/emaillists>
report>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Flying advice
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Help. I am bringing a Piper Pacer from Winslow AZ to Naples FL next week.
I need some advice.
Like, how much snow is too much to land in?
Any must stop eating or sightseeing from the air places along the way?
Anything else?
Thanks, Ted
Yes, the heater is supposed to work
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: registration numbers
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Bert,
There shouldn't be anything to"interpret". Maybe they are using outdated
materials. Direct them to the Amateur Built Aircraft Reference Material put
out by the FAA also known as AC No.. 20-27F dated 9/26/2003. Go to page 8
paragraph (2) where it says, Height of marks - At least 2" for aircraft with
the same external configuration (that is a replica) of a small aircraft
built at least 30 years ago." And paragraph (3) "Experimental" aircraft
designation. Follow the guidelines in the table below to determine whether
you need an "experimental" aircraft designation. The table says, "replica
aircraft - do not have to label your aircraft "experimental" if it is a
replica of an aircraft built at least 30 years ago. However, in such a
case, you must include an "X" between the nationality designation and the
registration number", i.e. NX1234.
Hope this helps.
Ted
> From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: registration numbers
>
> Yeah But make sure your DAR is interpreting the FAR the same way. Some
DARs and
> FAA guys are not on the same page
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: alexms1(at)comcast.net
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 10:11 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: registration numbers
>
>
> D.J.
> If you use NX----- in your number you will not have to have the word
EXPERIMENTAL
> posted inside of the plane. The X serves the same purpose.
> Alex Sloan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Flying advice
Date: Nov 12, 2004
wow... thats a long journey in a Pacer.
Will you be standing on a corner in Winslow, AZ?
;)
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying advice
>
>
> Help. I am bringing a Piper Pacer from Winslow AZ to Naples FL next week.
>
> I need some advice.
>
> Like, how much snow is too much to land in?
>
> Any must stop eating or sightseeing from the air places along the way?
>
> Anything else?
>
> Thanks, Ted
>
> Yes, the heater is supposed to work
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: inconspicuous earphones
The original messages came from me. I had overheard a discussion
between a couple of pilots at Arlington. One had bought these
earphones that were made to fit in the ear like hearing aids. They
were molded to conform to the inside of the ear passage. Unfortunately
when the rather hefty price was stated my interest shrivelled quickly.
Hidden eaphones like these would be nice though. It just doesn't seem
right looking at David Clark Mickey Mouse ears on a head poking out
of a vintage open cockpit.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Stinemetze
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inconspicuous earphones
Just a quick reply from a "lurker" on the site. I believe that the company you are looking for is FlightSuits.com at the following URL. http://www.flightsuits.com/open_leather.html They have leather helmets both with and without microphones and earphones.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 13, 2004
Subject: Re: Flying advice
Ted,
If you stop anywhere near Waco TX give me a shout. You can stay with us if
you need to stop overnight, we'll talk Pietenpols & old airplanes. I work at
RAM Aircraft at the Waco Regional Airport. We have a 1700 ft. strip (Tick
Hill) near Moody Texas not yet on the sectional. Have a safe trip!
Terry Bowden
254-715-4773 cell
254-853-2343 home
254-752-8381 work
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2004
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Flying advice
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
--- MIME Errors ---
A message with no text/plain section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using plaintext formatting.
NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the
message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus
WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be
informed of the potential problem with their system as soon
as possible.
--- MIME Errors ---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 13, 2004
Subject: Re: Flying advice
Ted,
Wichita KS is probably too far north of your route, but you're certainly
welcome to stop, or overnight here !!
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2004
Subject: Re: "Skinny Piet"
From: john e fay <jefay(at)juno.com>
> Hello Gang,
>
> Just for curosity sake, has anyone tried or even
> considered a little wider fuselage for that skinny
> little Piet.
This reply is a little late, but I've been away from my computer for a
while.
I am getting ready to build my fuselage this summer, and this last year
we built a mock-up of the cockpit area. What I plan to do is build it
the standard width of 24", but I am using the long fuselage plans, and am
keeping the fuselage the full width to the rear seat back. I then start
the taper at that point. That gives about 2 more inches of width at the
pilot's shoulder.The cockpit seems plenty roomy to me (I am 5' 10" and
about 230 pounds).
John Fay
in Peoria
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: "Skinny Piet"
Hi John,
That sounds like a good plan and should work. I have
already put my fuselage together and it is two inches
wider than plans. I really like the shape of the
fuselage and it is plenty roomy. I am now trying to
figure out a way of making a full width front bench
seat and still have room to use the rudder bar under
the front seat.
Doc
--- john e fay wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
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> Click on the
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2004
From: Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Flying advice
If so, that would be such a fine sight to see.
--- DJ Vegh wrote:
>
>
> wow... thats a long journey in a Pacer.
>
> Will you be standing on a corner in Winslow, AZ?
>
> ;)
>
> DJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 5:17 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying advice
>
>
> Brousseau"
> >
> >
> > Help. I am bringing a Piper Pacer from Winslow AZ
> to Naples FL next week.
> >
> > I need some advice.
> >
> > Like, how much snow is too much to land in?
> >
> > Any must stop eating or sightseeing from the air
> places along the way?
> >
> > Anything else?
> >
> > Thanks, Ted
> >
> > Yes, the heater is supposed to work
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2004
Subject: [ Jack Phillips ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Jack Phillips
Lists: Pietenpol-List
Subject: First Flights in NX899JP
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jphillip@alarismed.com.11.14.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
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6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
_-=====================================================================
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
"Email List Photo Shares"
Available!
Subject: Re: [ Jack Phillips ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
Date: Nov 14, 2004
Jack,
Man, she's a beauty!
You have the right to be proud of that Piet!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: [ Jack Phillips ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
>
>
> A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>
> Poster: Jack Phillips
>
> Lists: Pietenpol-List
>
> Subject: First Flights in NX899JP
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jphillip@alarismed.com.11.14.2004/index.html
>
>
> o Main Photo Share Index
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>
> o Submitting a Photo Share
>
> If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
> following information along with your email message and files:
>
> 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
> 2) Your Full Name:
> 3) Your Email Address:
> 4) One line Subject description:
> 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
> 6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
>
> Email the information above and your files and photos to:
>
> pictures(at)matronics.com
>
>
> _-=====================================================================
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2004
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re. Drag Wires
Hi Doc,
In fact, I got the idea from the Glier & flyers Manual (1928-1932)
from the EAA... In that days there was no ACS&S :-) Great books.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Galen Hutcheson wrote:
>
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> Thanks for that pic. The master link looks good as
> well as being plenty strong. That is probably the way
> I am going to go. I'm sure BHP would have done the
> same thing if he had to pay the prices we have to pay
> from A/C supply houses.
>
> Doc
> --- Gary Gower wrote:
>
> >
> > > www.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > protection around
>
> > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=Turbopiet17.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> www.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
_-=====================================================================
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Available!
Subject: Re: [ Jack Phillips ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
Jack,
That is one beautiful airplane! Congratulations on a
job well done.
Doc
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> > o Main Photo Share Index
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> >
> > o Submitting a Photo Share
> >
> > If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own,
> please include the
> > following information along with your email
> message and files:
> >
> > 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
> > 2) Your Full Name:
> > 3) Your Email Address:
> > 4) One line Subject description:
> > 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of
> topic:
> > 6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
> >
> > Email the information above and your files and
> photos to:
> >
> > pictures(at)matronics.com
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
_-=====================================================================
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> List Admin.
> > _-> >
>
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> -
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=== message truncated ===
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
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_-=====================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: [ Jack Phillips ] : NX899JP
Date: Nov 14, 2004
WOW! I love that airplane. Those wheels are beautiful too! SUPER SUPER
job. love it!
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: is this possible in a Piet?
Date: Nov 14, 2004
for those of you who don't have an electrical system..... maybe your
passenger could do this for an engine restart
see attached image
DJ Vegh
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: alexms1(at)comcast.net
Available!
Subject: Re: [ Jack Phillips ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
Date: Nov 15, 2004
Jack,
Great pictures and a beautiful Pietenpol. More pictures requested.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
>
>
>
> A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>
> Poster: Jack Phillips
>
> Lists: Pietenpol-List
>
> Subject: First Flights in NX899JP
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jphillip@alarismed.com.11.14.2004/index.html
>
>
>
>
> o Main Photo Share Index
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>
> o Submitting a Photo Share
>
> If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
> following information along with your email message and files:
>
> 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
> 2) Your Full Name:
> 3) Your Email Address:
> 4) One line Subject description:
> 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
> 6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
>
> Email the information above and your files and photos to:
>
> pictures(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
Jack,
Great pictures and a beautiful Pietenpol. More pictures requested.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Pietenpol-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Jack Phillips
Lists: Pietenpol-List
Subject: First Flights in NX899JP
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jphillip@alarismed.com.11.14.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
&g
t; 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
_-=====================================================================
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Flying advice
Date: Nov 14, 2004
Hi Ted
I'm going to guess that you may have been looking for a serious answer to
your question about too much snow.
Snow is very tricky and can be dangerous. I have done a lot of flying thru
snow and there are two main problems. The first is obviously having it
stick to the wings and prop. I don't think given the type of plane you are
flying you will be going out in those conditions. This is the season for
snow showers, kind of like the Florida rain showers where you can often bob
and weave around them.
The main question is landing in snow. Don't attempt landing on an un plowed
runway Airports in snow areas are very good at clearing but you need to
know conditions in advance. Ask the tower for braking action reports. ATIS
usually has that. Snow patches are often packed on a runway, ice is the
worst. Especially in cross wind landings and takeoffs. Planes to slide of
the sides of runways occasionallly.
Its not the snow depth on the ground, it's the clean up. Colder is better.
If the day temp gets to almost thawing and late in the day melting snow re
freezes making very slick surface.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying advice
>
>
> Help. I am bringing a Piper Pacer from Winslow AZ to Naples FL next week.
>
> I need some advice.
>
> Like, how much snow is too much to land in?
>
> Any must stop eating or sightseeing from the air places along the way?
>
> Anything else?
>
> Thanks, Ted
>
> Yes, the heater is supposed to work
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: NX41CC is down
Date: Nov 14, 2004
Howdy, low and slow fliers;
I'm sure someone will pick up on this sooner or later, so here's the
official NTSB incident report:
http://www.faa.gov/avr/aai/M_1112_N.txt
My instructor, Charlie Avaritt, was at the controls (solo), approx. 500'
AGL, when carb ice caused the engine to begin running rough. Conditions
were ideal for formation of carb ice and there is no doubt that this was the
cause of the engine roughness. Application of full carb heat did not smooth
it out enough to maintain flying speed or altitude and a precautionary
landing was attempted in the only available field within miles (and very
little gliding range from that altitude). The landing was successful but
the rollout, in an unimproved field, collapsed the landing gear at a fairly
low airspeed (broke a fitting on one of the shock struts, leading to
collapse of the other). The airplane dropped to its belly, the air intake
and leading edge of the firewall dug in, the airplane gently nosed over and
ended up on its back. Charlie unhooked the harness, got out, and walked
away, there was no fire, the engine was stopped during final approach so the
prop was horizontal and no damage whatsoever to the engine itself or the
prop.
Photos and a more complete report will follow, but here it is in a nutshell:
the Pietenpol is a strong airplane! No damage whatsoever to the wings,
horizontal stabilizer, elevator, or almost all of the fuselage. Lower
cowling is bent, carb is ruined (but I have another), air box will need
reworking, gascolator mount ditto (the carb and gascolator were what nosed
into the ground and flipped the airplane). There is sandy loam (DIRT!)
pretty much all inside the cowling from when the airplane dug in, mixed with
dry grass. The forward cabanes are bent and will need to be replaced, from
the rollover onto the wing. Leading edge of the vertical stabilizer is
cracked (again, from the rollover and drop onto the tip of the VS) and will
have to be replaced and the VS recovered. EAA 35 members will be called on
heavily to pitch in with the repairs and I'm sure they will rise to the
occasion!
ELT activated upon impact but until we thought about it and shut it off two
days later (Saturday), nobody called or showed up. Makes you wonder what
would have happened if somebody was dying, laying in the snow on a
mountainside. Also makes you wonder why the FAA makes us pay for these
things when they are of no use, but maybe why they are obsoleting the VHF
units in favor of UHF. Corky: the seat belt and shoulder harness worked to
perfection. So did the ELT mounts and everything else.
Post-script: after flipping the airplane back over and temporarily bracing
the main gear legs with some electrical cable so it was steady on its legs,
the trip through town on a flatbed trailer was thought to be part of a
Veterans' Day parade and everybody waved as the plane rolled slowly by on
its way to the airport. The airplane is extremely popular with people and
nobody even noticed that the airplane was injured.
Corky: please don't kill me. I promise that none of this is a reflection on
your building skills, your airplane, or anything having to do with
Louisiana. The airplane will live to fly again, and it will have a more
robust carb heat knob and control, as well as a very positive verification
of adequate temperature rise through the carb heat muff even if it means
that I take off the muff and wrap door springs around the exhaust pipes or
stuff the muff with coarse steel wool. There was just not enough carb heat,
maybe 100 degrees on runup. All the parts for a proper system are there,
but the carb heat really needs to warm that air! To those of you on the
fence about carb heat: (an old Mexican proverb:) "el golpe avisa". Roughly
translated, "the blow teaches a lesson".
News at 11, plus pictures. Sigh. I still have not flown my airplane.
However, it could have been worse: I could have had my grandson up with
me...! Happy Thanksgiving, friends, and I'll keep y'all informed as we get
into the repairs. I think back to the many test flights that Mr. Pietenpol
had in his prototypes, the number of times that he found out "the hard way"
what worked and what didn't, and it's really no big deal to fix the airplane
and get back out there again like he did time and time again.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: NX41CC is down
Hi Oscar,
Sorry to hear about your plane. Always happy there
are no injuries...except to wood and metal and all
that is repairable. I'm sad to say that over the past
30 odd years of flying, I have totaled out six
aircraft...AND NOT A SINGLE INJURY!!! Best wishes and
you will have her flying again soon. Remember
always...just as strong or stronger than the
original...
Doc
--- Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
> Howdy, low and slow fliers;
>
> I'm sure someone will pick up on this sooner or
> later, so here's the
> official NTSB incident report:
>
> http://www.faa.gov/avr/aai/M_1112_N.txt
>
> My instructor, Charlie Avaritt, was at the controls
> (solo), approx. 500'
> AGL, when carb ice caused the engine to begin
> running rough. Conditions
> were ideal for formation of carb ice and there is no
> doubt that this was the
> cause of the engine roughness. Application of full
> carb heat did not smooth
> it out enough to maintain flying speed or altitude
> and a precautionary
> landing was attempted in the only available field
> within miles (and very
> little gliding range from that altitude). The
> landing was successful but
> the rollout, in an unimproved field, collapsed the
> landing gear at a fairly
> low airspeed (broke a fitting on one of the shock
> struts, leading to
> collapse of the other). The airplane dropped to its
> belly, the air intake
> and leading edge of the firewall dug in, the
> airplane gently nosed over and
> ended up on its back. Charlie unhooked the harness,
> got out, and walked
> away, there was no fire, the engine was stopped
> during final approach so the
> prop was horizontal and no damage whatsoever to the
> engine itself or the
> prop.
>
> Photos and a more complete report will follow, but
> here it is in a nutshell:
> the Pietenpol is a strong airplane! No damage
> whatsoever to the wings,
> horizontal stabilizer, elevator, or almost all of
> the fuselage. Lower
> cowling is bent, carb is ruined (but I have
> another), air box will need
> reworking, gascolator mount ditto (the carb and
> gascolator were what nosed
> into the ground and flipped the airplane). There is
> sandy loam (DIRT!)
> pretty much all inside the cowling from when the
> airplane dug in, mixed with
> dry grass. The forward cabanes are bent and will
> need to be replaced, from
> the rollover onto the wing. Leading edge of the
> vertical stabilizer is
> cracked (again, from the rollover and drop onto the
> tip of the VS) and will
> have to be replaced and the VS recovered. EAA 35
> members will be called on
> heavily to pitch in with the repairs and I'm sure
> they will rise to the
> occasion!
>
> ELT activated upon impact but until we thought about
> it and shut it off two
> days later (Saturday), nobody called or showed up.
> Makes you wonder what
> would have happened if somebody was dying, laying in
> the snow on a
> mountainside. Also makes you wonder why the FAA
> makes us pay for these
> things when they are of no use, but maybe why they
> are obsoleting the VHF
> units in favor of UHF. Corky: the seat belt and
> shoulder harness worked to
> perfection. So did the ELT mounts and everything
> else.
>
> Post-script: after flipping the airplane back over
> and temporarily bracing
> the main gear legs with some electrical cable so it
> was steady on its legs,
> the trip through town on a flatbed trailer was
> thought to be part of a
> Veterans' Day parade and everybody waved as the
> plane rolled slowly by on
> its way to the airport. The airplane is extremely
> popular with people and
> nobody even noticed that the airplane was injured.
>
> Corky: please don't kill me. I promise that none of
> this is a reflection on
> your building skills, your airplane, or anything
> having to do with
> Louisiana. The airplane will live to fly again, and
> it will have a more
> robust carb heat knob and control, as well as a very
> positive verification
> of adequate temperature rise through the carb heat
> muff even if it means
> that I take off the muff and wrap door springs
> around the exhaust pipes or
> stuff the muff with coarse steel wool. There was
> just not enough carb heat,
> maybe 100 degrees on runup. All the parts for a
> proper system are there,
> but the carb heat really needs to warm that air! To
> those of you on the
> fence about carb heat: (an old Mexican proverb:) "el
> golpe avisa". Roughly
> translated, "the blow teaches a lesson".
>
> News at 11, plus pictures. Sigh. I still have not
> flown my airplane.
> However, it could have been worse: I could have had
> my grandson up with
> me...! Happy Thanksgiving, friends, and I'll keep
> y'all informed as we get
> into the repairs. I think back to the many test
> flights that Mr. Pietenpol
> had in his prototypes, the number of times that he
> found out "the hard way"
> what worked and what didn't, and it's really no big
> deal to fix the airplane
> and get back out there again like he did time and
> time again.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
_-=====================================================================
> _-> _-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
> _-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
> _-> _-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser.
> Click on the
> _-= Contribution link below to find out more about
> this
> _-= year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
> by the
> _-= The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com!
> _-> _-= List Contribution Web Site
> _-> _-= http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> _-> _-= Thank you for your generous support!
> _-= -Matt Dralle, List
> Admin.
> _->
_-=====================================================================
> _-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
> _-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the
> Contributions
> _-= of List members. You'll never see banner ads or
> any other
> _-= form of direct advertising on the Matronics
> Forums.
>
_-=====================================================================
> _-= List Related Information
> _-= Post Message: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> _-= UN/SUBSCRIBE:
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2004
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: NX899JP
Congratulations Jack!! beautiful airplane!!. Did you widened the landing gear?
How much? Would you recommend that? Thank you
Santiago Morete
Suscribite ya http://correo.yahoo.com.ar/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 15, 2004
Subject: Re: NX41CC is down
Oscar,
Sorry to hear about the accident. Thank God no one was hurt. I'm sure
everyone appreciates your details about the mishap, and look forward to your
future inputs, as you find out more. It's VERY helpful to everyone in our
group, when details are given, as it will surely help others avoid a similar
situation.
Don't worry, Corky...Although I've never met Oscar in person, I know his
type, and he will have your plane in the air again !!
Chuck Gantzer
_-=====================================================================
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: NX899JP
Date: Nov 15, 2004
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Hi Santiago,
I don't remember, exactly. I think I made them a bit wider than the plans call
for. I believe my gear is 74" wide. It tracks very straight and is quite rugged
(I've made several "less than perfect" landings where I dropped it in from
a foot or so too high). I really like the straight axle gear. There are no
problems with toe-in or alignment and the shock absorption system seems to work
very well. I used the guide pins like Mike Cuy has on his plane.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: santiago morete [mailto:moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX899JP
Congratulations Jack!! beautiful airplane!!. Did you widened the landing gear?
How much? Would you recommend that? Thank you
Santiago Morete
Suscribite ya http://correo.yahoo.com.ar/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: NX41CC is down
Date: Nov 15, 2004
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX41CC is down
=================================
Oscar,
Sorry to hear about your "Piet's" accident, I know how you must feel. And I
am glad that you have decided to put it back together again.
Sometimes I wish that I had taken everyone's advice and waited for a while
before deciding to sell mine. I might have reconsidered and built a new
wing panel for "Mountain Piet". However, it has gone to a good home with
Greg Bacon and I am sure that he will do a good job of repair and enjoy the
plane as much as I did.
Haven't forgotten my committment to you to write the article for "Contact",
I get around to it sometime after the holidays.
Condolences,
John
>
> Howdy, low and slow fliers;
>
> I'm sure someone will pick up on this sooner or later, so here's the
> official NTSB incident report:
>
> http://www.faa.gov/avr/aai/M_1112_N.txt
>
> My instructor, Charlie Avaritt, was at the controls (solo), approx. 500'
> AGL, when carb ice caused the engine to begin running rough. Conditions
> were ideal for formation of carb ice and there is no doubt that this was
the
> cause of the engine roughness. Application of full carb heat did not
smooth
> it out enough to maintain flying speed or altitude and a precautionary
> landing was attempted in the only available field within miles (and very
> little gliding range from that altitude). The landing was successful but
> the rollout, in an unimproved field, collapsed the landing gear at a
fairly
> low airspeed (broke a fitting on one of the shock struts, leading to
> collapse of the other). The airplane dropped to its belly, the air intake
> and leading edge of the firewall dug in, the airplane gently nosed over
and
> ended up on its back. Charlie unhooked the harness, got out, and walked
> away, there was no fire, the engine was stopped during final approach so
the
> prop was horizontal and no damage whatsoever to the engine itself or the
> prop.
>
> Photos and a more complete report will follow, but here it is in a
nutshell:
> the Pietenpol is a strong airplane! No damage whatsoever to the wings,
> horizontal stabilizer, elevator, or almost all of the fuselage. Lower
> cowling is bent, carb is ruined (but I have another), air box will need
> reworking, gascolator mount ditto (the carb and gascolator were what nosed
> into the ground and flipped the airplane). There is sandy loam (DIRT!)
> pretty much all inside the cowling from when the airplane dug in, mixed
with
> dry grass. The forward cabanes are bent and will need to be replaced,
from
> the rollover onto the wing. Leading edge of the vertical stabilizer is
> cracked (again, from the rollover and drop onto the tip of the VS) and
will
> have to be replaced and the VS recovered. EAA 35 members will be called
on
> heavily to pitch in with the repairs and I'm sure they will rise to the
> occasion!
>
> ELT activated upon impact but until we thought about it and shut it off
two
> days later (Saturday), nobody called or showed up. Makes you wonder what
> would have happened if somebody was dying, laying in the snow on a
> mountainside. Also makes you wonder why the FAA makes us pay for these
> things when they are of no use, but maybe why they are obsoleting the VHF
> units in favor of UHF. Corky: the seat belt and shoulder harness worked
to
> perfection. So did the ELT mounts and everything else.
>
> Post-script: after flipping the airplane back over and temporarily bracing
> the main gear legs with some electrical cable so it was steady on its
legs,
> the trip through town on a flatbed trailer was thought to be part of a
> Veterans' Day parade and everybody waved as the plane rolled slowly by on
> its way to the airport. The airplane is extremely popular with people and
> nobody even noticed that the airplane was injured.
>
> Corky: please don't kill me. I promise that none of this is a reflection
on
> your building skills, your airplane, or anything having to do with
> Louisiana. The airplane will live to fly again, and it will have a more
> robust carb heat knob and control, as well as a very positive verification
> of adequate temperature rise through the carb heat muff even if it means
> that I take off the muff and wrap door springs around the exhaust pipes or
> stuff the muff with coarse steel wool. There was just not enough carb
heat,
> maybe 100 degrees on runup. All the parts for a proper system are there,
> but the carb heat really needs to warm that air! To those of you on the
> fence about carb heat: (an old Mexican proverb:) "el golpe avisa".
Roughly
> translated, "the blow teaches a lesson".
>
> News at 11, plus pictures. Sigh. I still have not flown my airplane.
> However, it could have been worse: I could have had my grandson up with
> me...! Happy Thanksgiving, friends, and I'll keep y'all informed as we
get
> into the repairs. I think back to the many test flights that Mr.
Pietenpol
> had in his prototypes, the number of times that he found out "the hard
way"
> what worked and what didn't, and it's really no big deal to fix the
airplane
> and get back out there again like he did time and time again.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Available!
Subject: Re: [ Jack Phillips ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
Date: Nov 15, 2004
Available!
From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
Congratulations! That is one gorgeous plane, and something to emulate.
Any construction photos? Still curious about the name, though.
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Wire Wheel info
Date: Nov 15, 2004
Several on the list have inquired about sources for wire wheels, etc.....
Well, my spoked/mounted wheels arrived today from Buchanan's. Their great! I've
posted pictures on mykitplane.com. Before I have to answer any goofy questions....the
brake WILL NOT be mounted to 1/8" ply (as shown in the picture) and
it will not just lean up against the spokes of the wheel (as shown in the picture)
and it WILL have a brake disc (as NOT shown in the picture).....I just
wanted to see about what it would all look like.....hey, use your imagination!
Also, I'm painting (NOT powder coating) the spokes and rims gloss black to match
the powder coated hub.....
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID803&PlaneID52
I've also posted a (rather large) document containing copies of the invoices for
brakes/tires/liners/tubes/wheels at:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/PeoplesFiles/wheels.doc
If that link doesn't work, go to mykitplane.com and look in the files area......
Jim in Plano.....
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: NX41CC is down
Date: Nov 15, 2004
Oscar,
Sorry to hear about the mishap. That really stinks, but nobody was hurt
which is the really good thing. "Any landing that you can walk away from, is
a good landing" (quoted to me by my WW2 instructor, who flew "Ruthless 4", a
P-51 in the south Pacific).
Lucky for you it was built by someone who built a solid airframe/airplane.
Well now you have a good winter project! :
)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX41CC is down
>
> Howdy, low and slow fliers;
>
> I'm sure someone will pick up on this sooner or later, so here's the
> official NTSB incident report:
>
> http://www.faa.gov/avr/aai/M_1112_N.txt
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: weight and balance
Date: Nov 15, 2004
I added a weight and balance summary to my website if you all are interested.
I have this in excel spreadsheet form , too - if anybody wants it e-mail off
list and I'll send it to you via attachment.
Bert
http://bconoly.tripod.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: weight and balance
Date: Nov 15, 2004
Hi Bert
I just looked at your w/b and the listed empty weight is 667 lb. adding the left,
right and tail 689 lb. ??
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Conoly
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: weight and balance
I added a weight and balance summary to my website if you all are interested.
I have this in excel spreadsheet form , too - if anybody wants it e-mail off
list and I'll send it to you via attachment.
Bert
http://bconoly.tripod.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 15, 2004
Subject: Re: Wire Wheel info
WOW... Looks Great, Jim!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
<005101c4cb7d$ea34dce0$0600a8c0@laptop>
Subject: Re: weight and balance
Date: Nov 15, 2004
Yeah. Note that the empty weight is found by subtracting outthe weight of the oil
and fuel on board at the time of weighing. At this time I had 4 qts of oil
and 2 gallons of gas. Also 2 lb tare for the tail wheel. That's about 22 lbs.
That's the difference.
You then calculate the fore and aft CG limits by accounting for those factors at
their respective moment arms.
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: weight and balance
Hi Bert
I just looked at your w/b and the listed empty weight is 667 lb. adding the
left, right and tail 689 lb. ??
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Conoly
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: weight and balance
I added a weight and balance summary to my website if you all are interested.
I have this in excel spreadsheet form , too - if anybody wants it e-mail
off list and I'll send it to you via attachment.
Bert
http://bconoly.tripod.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: alexms1(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: NX41CC is down
Date: Nov 16, 2004
Oscar,
Any landing you walk away from is a good landing. I know.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> Howdy, low and slow fliers;
>
> I'm sure someone will pick up on this sooner or later, so here's the
> official NTSB incident report:
>
> http://www.faa.gov/avr/aai/M_1112_N.txt
>
> My instructor, Charlie Avaritt, was at the controls (solo), approx. 500'
> AGL, when carb ice caused the engine to begin running rough. Conditions
> were ideal for formation of carb ice and there is no doubt that this was the
> cause of the engine roughness. Application of full carb heat did not smooth
> it out enough to maintain flying speed or altitude and a precautionary
> landing was attempted in the only available field within miles (and very
> little gliding range from that altitude). The landing was successful but
> the rollout, in an unimproved field, collapsed the landing gear at a fairly
> low airspeed (broke a fitting on one of the shock struts, leading to
> collapse of the other). The airplane dropped to its belly, the air intake
> and leading edge of the firewall dug in, the airplane gently nosed over and
> ended up on its back. Charlie unhooked the harness, got out, and walked
> away, there was no fire, the engine was stopped during final approach so the
> prop was horizontal and no damage whatsoever to the engine itself or the
> prop.
>
> Photos and a more complete report will follow, but here it is in a nutshell:
> the Pietenpol is a strong airplane! No damage whatsoever to the wings,
> horizontal stabilizer, elevator, or almost all of the fuselage. Lower
> cowling is bent, carb is ruined (but I have another), air box will need
> reworking, gascolator mount ditto (the carb and gascolator were what nosed
> into the ground and flipped the airplane). There is sandy loam (DIRT!)
> pretty much all inside the cowling from when the airplane dug in, mixed with
> dry grass. The forward cabanes are bent and will need to be replaced, from
> the rollover onto the wing. Leading edge of the vertical stabilizer is
> cracked (again, from the rollover and drop onto the tip of the VS) and will
> have to be replaced and the VS recovered. EAA 35 members will be called on
> heavily to pitch in with the repairs and I'm sure they will rise to the
> occasion!
>
> ELT activated upon impact but until we thought about it and shut it off two
> days later (Saturday), nobody called or showed up. Makes you wonder what
> would have happened if somebody was dying, laying in the snow on a
> mountainside. Also makes you wonder why the FAA makes us pay for these
> things when they are of no use, but maybe why they are obsoleting the VHF
> units in favor of UHF. Corky: the seat belt and shoulder harness worked to
> perfection. So did the ELT mounts and everything else.
>
> Post-script: after flipping the airplane back over and temporarily bracing
> the main gear legs with some electrical cable so it was steady on its legs,
> the trip through town on a flatbed trailer was thought to be part of a
> Veterans' Day parade and everybody waved as the plane rolled slowly by on
> its way to the airport. The airplane is extremely popular with people and
> nobody even noticed that the airplane was injured.
>
> Corky: please don't kill me. I promise that none of this is a reflection on
> your building skills, your airplane, or anything having to do with
> Louisiana. The airplane will live to fly again, and it will have a more
> robust carb heat knob and control, as well as a very positive verification
> of adequate temperature rise through the carb heat muff even if it means
> that I take off the muff and wrap door springs around the exhaust pipes or
> stuff the muff with coarse steel wool. There was just not enough carb heat,
> maybe 100 degrees on runup. All the parts for a proper system are there,
> but the carb heat really needs to warm that air! To those of you on the
> fence about carb heat: (an old Mexican proverb:) "el golpe avisa". Roughly
> translated, "the blow teaches a lesson".
>
> News at 11, plus pictures. Sigh. I still have not flown my airplane.
> However, it could have been worse: I could have had my grandson up with
> me...! Happy Thanksgiving, friends, and I'll keep y'all informed as we get
> into the repairs. I think back to the many test flights that Mr. Pietenpol
> had in his prototypes, the number of times that he found out "the hard way"
> what worked and what didn't, and it's really no big deal to fix the airplane
> and get back out there again like he did time and time again.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Oscar,
Any landing you walk away from is a good landing. I know.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
Howdy, low and slow fliers;
I'm sure someone will pick up on this sooner or later, so here's the
official NTSB incident report:
http://www.faa.gov/avr/aai/M_1112_N.txt
My instructor, Charlie Avaritt, was at the controls (solo), approx. 500'
AGL, when carb ice caused the engine to begin running rough. Conditions
were ideal for formation of carb ice and there is no doubt that this was the
cause of the engine roughness. Application of full carb heat did not smooth
it out enough to maintain flying speed or altitude and a precautionary
landing was attempted in the only available field within miles (and very
little gliding ran
ge from that altitude). The landing was successful but
the rollout, in
an unimproved field, collapsed the landing gear at a fairly
low airspeed
(broke a fitting on one of the shock struts, leading to
collapse
of the other). The airplane dropped to its belly, the air intake
and
leading edge of the firewall dug in, the airplane gently nosed over and
ended up on its back. Charlie unhooked the harness, got out, and walked
away, there was no fire, the engine was stopped during final approach
so the
prop was horizontal and no damage whatsoever to the engine itself
or the
prop.
Photos and a more complete report
will follow, but here it is in a nutshell:
the Pietenpol is a strong
airplane! No damage whatsoever to the wings,
horizontal stabilizer, elevator,
or almost all of the fuselage. Lower
cowling is bent, carb is
ruined (but I have another), air box will need
reworking, gascolator mount ditto (the carb and gascolator were what nosed
into the ground and flipped the airplane). There is sandy loam (DIRT!)
pretty much all inside the cowling from when the airplane dug in,
mixed with
dry grass. The forward cabanes are bent and will need to
be replaced, from
the rollover onto the wing. Leading edge of the vertical
stabilizer is
cracked (again, from the rollover and drop onto the
tip of the VS) and will
have to be replaced and the VS recovered.
EAA 35 members will be called on
heavily to pitch in with the repairs
and I'm sure they will rise to the
occasion!
ELT activated
upon impact but until we thought about it and shut it off two
days later (Saturday), nobody called or showed up. Makes you wonder what
would have happened if somebody was dying, laying in the snow on a
mountainside. Also makes you wonder why the FAA m
akes us pay for these
things when they are of no use, but maybe why they
are obsoleting the VHF
units in favor of UHF. Corky: the seat belt
and shoulder harness worked to
perfection. So did the ELT mounts and
everything else.
Post-script: after flipping the airplane
back over and temporarily bracing
the main gear legs with some electrical
cable so it was steady on its legs,
the trip through town on a flatbed
trailer was thought to be part of a
Veterans' Day parade and everybody
waved as the plane rolled slowly by on
its way to the airport.
The airplane is extremely popular with people and
nobody even noticed
that the airplane was injured.
Corky: please don't kill
me. I promise that none of this is a reflection on
your building skills,
your airplane, or anything having to do with
Louisiana. The airplane
will live to fly again, and it will have a more <
BR> robust carb heat knob and control, as well as a very positive verification
of adequate temperature rise through the carb heat muff even if
it means
that I take off the muff and wrap door springs around the exhaust
pipes or
stuff the muff with coarse steel wool. There was just
not enough carb heat,
maybe 100 degrees on runup. All the parts for a
proper system are there,
but the carb heat really needs to warm that
air! To those of you on the
fence about carb heat: (an old Mexican proverb:)
"el golpe avisa". Roughly
translated, "the blow teaches a lesson".
News at 11, plus pictures. Sigh. I still have not flown
my airplane.
However, it could have been worse: I could have had my
grandson up with
me...! Happy Thanksgiving, friends, and I'll keep
y'all informed as we get
into the repairs. I think back to the many test
flights that Mr. Pietenpol
had in his pr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Flying advice
Date: Nov 15, 2004
Thanks to all for the snow advice and offer of visits along the way. We
shall see what the weather deals us. Hope to get to visit some of you along
the way.
I leave early in the morning on one of those aluminum human shipping tubes.
Then the adventure begins - after I stand on that corner in Winslow.
This trip will put a minor delay in my Piet progress, but it's work someone
has to do....
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 15, 2004
Subject: Re: Flying advice
Watch out for Flatbed Fords.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2004
From: Javier Cruz <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: Re: NX41CC is down
Hi Oscar
It's hard to me to write that i fill in english, let me try..
With time, this list becomes a family, I believe that I know all Piet's
friends here, I have spoken by telephone with some, I have known in person
others, and is always the same, great camaraderia and friendship, the taste
to construct, the pleasure to speak of wood and metal that some day will be
a Piet (or other plane)that will take us on the air . That's why when we
listened about an accident or incident here is as if all of us were part
of., Really bad news about your plane, the best thing is than there were no
injuries and that the NX41CC will be on the air soon, all is experience..and
is time work, no other way.
Javier Cruz
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wire Wheel info
Hey those wheels looked great Jim...but when I got a
look at the invoice...OUCH! But they sure are
beautiful.
Doc
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2004
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Wire Wheel info
Yeah, the cost is pretty horrible! But every time I think about all that mass
landing on those wheels with my rear end sitting on it.....then it's not so bad.....
:-)
Well, yeah, it's STILL bad! Oh well......
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel info
Hey those wheels looked great Jim...but when I got a
look at the invoice...OUCH! But they sure are
beautiful.
Doc
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wire Wheel info
Date: Nov 16, 2004
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Jim,
Your costs look pretty comparable to mine from Buchanan's. Why did you
make 4 wheels? Perhaps those that thought the costs were horrible
thought this was for one pair of wheels, not two.
I can tell you that my wheels have already had to withstand some
bone-jarring landings, and they handled 'em just fine. I can also tell
from the position of your brake calipers that your brakes won't be any
more effective than mine - just barely able to hold it for a runup.
They quit putting big wheels on airplanes about the time they started
using brakes. It takes a lot of braking torque to stop a wheel of that
diameter.
Jack Phillips
I flew NX899JP this weekend in 49 F temperature - Brrr!!
-----Original Message-----
Yeah, the cost is pretty horrible! But every time I think about all
that mass landing on those wheels with my rear end sitting on
it.....then it's not so bad..... :-)
Well, yeah, it's STILL bad! Oh well......
jm
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2004
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Wire Wheel info
Yeah, that price was for 2 sets. Only one set is for me.
Well, I'm curious about what size disc you used. The manufacturer says these brakes
provide "brake torque of 4800 in lbs with 150# of lever pull force appliled
on a 10" disc"......I'm using an 8" disc but could easily make it 10"....
Actually, it might not be that good for ME to have a lot of braking power! I'm
just a bit nervous about the whole brake/tail dragger thing....hey, as long as
it keeps me from running into that fuel island or those people....
And I don't EVEN want to hear any comments about flying in "cold weather"....hey
YOU FLEW!!! I'm still envious.....
JM
-----Original Message-----
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel info
Jim,
Your costs look pretty comparable to mine from Buchanan's. Why did you
make 4 wheels? Perhaps those that thought the costs were horrible
thought this was for one pair of wheels, not two.
I can tell you that my wheels have already had to withstand some
bone-jarring landings, and they handled 'em just fine. I can also tell
from the position of your brake calipers that your brakes won't be any
more effective than mine - just barely able to hold it for a runup.
They quit putting big wheels on airplanes about the time they started
using brakes. It takes a lot of braking torque to stop a wheel of that
diameter.
Jack Phillips
I flew NX899JP this weekend in 49 F temperature - Brrr!!
-----Original Message-----
Yeah, the cost is pretty horrible! But every time I think about all
that mass landing on those wheels with my rear end sitting on
it.....then it's not so bad..... :-)
Well, yeah, it's STILL bad! Oh well......
jm
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wire Wheel info
Date: Nov 16, 2004
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Going from 8" discs to 10" discs would increase your braking force by
25%. Are you using a hand lever or foot pedals for your brakes? 150
lbs is a lot of force to be generating, unless the pedals are really
well placed. You will need a pretty strong seat back to resist that
kind of pushing, too.
I have 8" Cleveland disc brakes, with Matco master cylinders mounted as
heel brakes. As I said, I can hold it for a run-up at 1500 RPM, ON
GRASS. On pavement I have to do sort of a "rolling run-up". My wheels
are 3.00 x 21. Slowing down after landing, even on pavement, is not a
problem. I have a 4" tailwheel and when I pull back hard on the stick,
it pushes that little tailwheel down pretty hard and it acts much like a
tailskid. Mostly I use the brakes for slow speed maneuvering and
parking, and for the run-up and starting.
I wouldn't worry too much about over-braking this taildragger. My tail
weight is pretty light (about 30 lbs, with the plane empty) but with my
big butt in the back seat and the marginally effective brakes,
nose-overs are not really a worry. You can figure a motorcycle weighs
less than the gross weight of a Piet by a considerable margin, yet they
typically have discs 10" to 12" in diameter.
One other point about the big wheels - you need BIG chocks to hold them.
My usual technique for starting it if I'm alone is to chock it with a
couple of blocks of 6"x6" pine, prop the engine, get it to idling as
slowly as I can, then replace the 6x6's with a couple of 2 x 4' blocks,
which will just barely keep it still at idle. I climb in the cockpit,
get my seatbelt and helmet and goggles on, then just goose the throttle
and it hops over the 2x4's as easy as you please!. Note that most FBO
chocks are made of 2x4's, so I'm already planning to make a lightweight
set of tall chocks that I can carry with me when I go air-camping.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Markle [mailto:jim_markle(at)mindspring.com]
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel info
Yeah, that price was for 2 sets. Only one set is for me.
Well, I'm curious about what size disc you used. The manufacturer says
these brakes provide "brake torque of 4800 in lbs with 150# of lever
pull force appliled on a 10" disc"......I'm using an 8" disc but could
easily make it 10"....
Actually, it might not be that good for ME to have a lot of braking
power! I'm just a bit nervous about the whole brake/tail dragger
thing....hey, as long as it keeps me from running into that fuel island
or those people....
And I don't EVEN want to hear any comments about flying in "cold
weather"....hey YOU FLEW!!! I'm still envious.....
JM
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Wire Wheel info
Jim,
For years I've used a tail hook, like you pull gliders
or banners with, for ease in starting a hand prop
airplane. You simply attach a small rope to any
tiedown, start your engine, climb into the cockpit and
pull the hook release handle and off you go. They
aren't all that expensive and are relatively light.
They sure make hand starting an airplane safe and
easy. I'm installing one in my project.
Doc
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: alexms1(at)comcast.net
Subject: Wire Wheel info
Date: Nov 16, 2004
Jack,
I will be using the same size wheels and straight axle. How far is your axle from
the firewall? I will have the same braking system as Mike Cuy. I have a
Corvair engine that is ready to mount and run. I have it on a test stand and
soon as I get the prop I will start a breaking in on the test stand.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> Going from 8" discs to 10" discs would increase your braking force by
> 25%. Are you using a hand lever or foot pedals for your brakes? 150
> lbs is a lot of force to be generating, unless the pedals are really
> well placed. You will need a pretty strong seat back to resist that
> kind of pushing, too.
>
> I have 8" Cleveland disc brakes, with Matco master cylinders mounted as
> heel brakes. As I said, I can hold it for a run-up at 1500 RPM, ON
> GRASS. On pavement I have to do sort of a "rolling run-up". My wheels
> are 3.00 x 21. Slowing down after landing, even on pavement, is not a
> problem. I have a 4" tailwheel and when I pull back hard on the stick,
> it pushes that little tailwheel down pretty hard and it acts much like a
> tailskid. Mostly I use the brakes for slow speed maneuvering and
> parking, and for the run-up and starting.
>
> I wouldn't worry too much about over-braking this taildragger. My tail
> weight is pretty light (about 30 lbs, with the plane empty) but with my
> big butt in the back seat and the marginally effective brakes,
> nose-overs are not really a worry. You can figure a motorcycle weighs
> less than the gross weight of a Piet by a considerable margin, yet they
> typically have discs 10" to 12" in diameter.
>
> One other point about the big wheels - you need BIG chocks to hold them.
> My usual technique for starting it if I'm alone is to chock it with a
> couple of blocks of 6"x6" pine, prop the engine, get it to idling as
> slowly as I can, then replace the 6x6's with a couple of 2 x 4' blocks,
> which will just barely keep it still at idle. I climb in the cockpit,
> get my seatbelt and helmet and goggles on, then just goose the throttle
> and it hops over the 2x4's as easy as you please!. Note that most FBO
> chocks are made of 2x4's, so I'm already planning to make a lightweight
> set of tall chocks that I can carry with me when I go air-camping.
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Markle [mailto:jim_markle(at)mindspring.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 10:37 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel info
>
>
>
>
> Yeah, that price was for 2 sets. Only one set is for me.
>
> Well, I'm curious about what size disc you used. The manufacturer says
> these brakes provide "brake torque of 4800 in lbs with 150# of lever
> pull force appliled on a 10" disc"......I'm using an 8" disc but could
> easily make it 10"....
>
> Actually, it might not be that good for ME to have a lot of braking
> power! I'm just a bit nervous about the whole brake/tail dragger
> thing....hey, as long as it keeps me from running into that fuel island
> or those people....
>
> And I don't EVEN want to hear any comments about flying in "cold
> weather"....hey YOU FLEW!!! I'm still envious.....
>
> JM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Jack,
I will be using the same size wheels and straight axle. How far is your
axle from the firewall? I will have the same braking system as Mike
Cuy. I have a Corvair engine that is ready to mount and run. I have
it on a test stand and soon as I get the prop I will start a breaking in on
the test stand.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Pietenpol-List
message posted by: "Phillips, Jack"
Going from 8" discs to 10" discs would increase your braking force
by
25%. Are you using a hand lever or foot pedals for your brakes?
150
lbs is a lot of force to be generating, unless the pedals are really
well placed. You will need a pretty strong seat back to resist that
kind of pushing, too.
I have 8" Cleveland disc brakes,
with Matco master cylinders mounted as
heel brakes. As I said,
I can hold it for a run-up at 1500 RPM, ON
GRASS. On pavement I have
to do sort of a "rolling run-up". My wheels
are 3.00 x 21. Slowing down
after landing, even on pavement, is not a
problem. I have a 4" tailwheel
and when I pull back hard on the stick,
&
gt; it pushes that little tailwheel down pretty hard and it acts much like a
tailskid. Mostly I use the brakes for slow speed maneuvering and
parking, and for the run-up and starting.
I wouldn't worry
too much about over-braking this taildragger. My tail
weight is pretty
light (about 30 lbs, with the plane empty) but with my
big butt
in the back seat and the marginally effective brakes,
nose-overs are
not really a worry. You can figure a motorcycle weighs
less than the
gross weight of a Piet by a considerable margin, yet they
typically have
discs 10" to 12" in diameter.
One other point about the
big wheels - you need BIG chocks to hold them.
My usual technique for
starting it if I'm alone is to chock it with a
couple of blocks of 6"x6"
pine, prop the engine, get it to idling as
slowly as I can, then
replace the 6x6's with a couple of 2 x 4' blocks, which will just barely keep it still at idle. I climb in the cockpit,
get my seatbelt and helmet and goggles on, then just goose the throttle
and it hops over the 2x4's as easy as you please!. Note that most FBO
chocks are made of 2x4's, so I'm already planning to make a lightweight
set of tall chocks that I can carry with me when I go air-camping.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Markle [mailto:jim_markle(at)mindspring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 10:37 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel info
-- Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle
Yeah, that price was for 2 sets. Only one set is for me.
Well, I'm curious about what size disc you used. The manufacturer says
these brakes provide "brake tor
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wire Wheel info
Date: Nov 16, 2004
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Hi Alex,
My axle is 19.5" aft of the firewall. I also used Mike Cuy's
arrangement, at least as far as the guide pins goes. He used mechanical
brakes, from a go-kart, I believe. I also used his method of wrapping
and securing the bungee cords for the axle.
The guide pins to prevent axle rotation during braking work very well.
The axle moves around quite a bit - much more than I would have guessed.
With me in the airplane the axle rides about an inch above the V blocks
at the ends of the struts, and as I taxi it over a fairly smooth grass
runway it moves up and down about another inch. The plane has a pretty
smooth ride and you don't tend to feel every little bump because there
is no direct connection to the axle and wheels, just that soft
connection through the bungee cords. Most other types of landing gear
have a direct structure connecting the wheel to the airframe, although
that structure has some flexure built into it (like the gear of a Cub,
or the spring steel gear on a Cessna or an RV).
Mike's mechanical brakes work every bit as well as my hydraulic aircraft
brakes, and probably don't leak brake fluid all over his floorboards
like mine did.
I think you'll be very happy with the ground handling of the airplane
with this gear. It tracks absolutely straight and true. From a ground
handling viewpoint, this is the easiest taildragger I have ever flown,
primarily due to the tracking of the main gear and the powerful rudder.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: alexms1(at)comcast.net [mailto:alexms1(at)comcast.net]
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel info
Jack,
I will be using the same size wheels and straight axle. How far is your
axle from the firewall? I will have the same braking system as Mike
Cuy. I have a Corvair engine that is ready to mount and run. I have it
on a test stand and soon as I get the prop I will start a breaking in on
the test stand.
Alex Sloan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 16, 2004
Subject: Re: Wire Wheel info
In a message dated 11/16/04 3:15:46 PM Central Standard Time,
jphillip(at)alarismed.com writes:
<< With me in the airplane the axle rides about an inch above the V blocks
at the ends of the struts >>
Jack,
It's really great to hear you're doing well in your flight test period.
However, I'm curious if you have done any crosswind taxi, with over 3/4 a sock
of
wind ? Did your upwind wing tend to stay considerably higher than the
downwind wing ? It seems to me that your bunji's are too loose. That's the problem
I had with the split gear bunji's...I could never get them tight enough. I
now have spring gear on the split axle, and she handles like a dream. Ask Mike
Cuy about crosswind taxiing.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Wire Wheel info
Date: Nov 16, 2004
Hi Chuck,
I thought they might be too loose, but I checked with Mike Cuy and he said
it sounds about right. With the plane empty there is a gap of about 1/4"
between the axle and the V blocks. Mike said that was what BHP recommended.
Besides, that's about as tight as I can get them.
The most wind I've flown in so far was a couple of weeks ago when it was
blowing 12 knots with gusts to 20. It was straight down the runway, but I
did have to taxi across it a couple of times. Didn't seem to be a problem.
I'm not sure I would notice a little bit of lean due to wind, becasue my
hangar is down a slope from the runway and I have to taxiacross that slope
to get up on the runway. It always feels about like I'm gonna turn over.
I'm getting used to it, but it sure got my attention the first few times I
did it.
Tomorrow's supposed to be 63 F with clear skies and no wind. I'm gonna skip
out of work early and try to put another hour on it.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
Jack,
It's really great to hear you're doing well in your flight test period.
However, I'm curious if you have done any crosswind taxi, with over 3/4 a
sock of
wind ? Did your upwind wing tend to stay considerably higher than the
downwind wing ? It seems to me that your bunji's are too loose. That's the
problem
I had with the split gear bunji's...I could never get them tight enough. I
now have spring gear on the split axle, and she handles like a dream. Ask
Mike
Cuy about crosswind taxiing.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Wire Wheel info
Date: Nov 17, 2004
> Tomorrow's supposed to be 63 F with clear skies and no wind. I'm gonna
skip
> out of work early and try to put another hour on it.
Now, there's a guy who knows what priorities are! :)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Wire Wheel info
Jack,
How far aft of the wing LE?
Clif
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel info
Hi Alex,
My axle is 19.5" aft of the firewall. I also used Mike Cuy's arrangement, at
least as far as the guide pins goes. He used mechanical brakes, from a go-kart,
I believe. I also used his method of wrapping and securing the bungee cords
for the axle.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: straight gear brake drums
Date: Nov 17, 2004
A machinist friend and myself have designed a brake drum/wheel hub combo for straight
axle gear that will fit inside the wire wheel, so nothing protrudes.
It will use eight inch hydraulic brake innerds and a custom made aluminum drum/hub
assembly.
He is interested in making up a few more sets if there is enough interest. At
this point he's willing to sell a few almost at cost so he can get them on airplanes
and get the word out.
He hasn't finished mine yet so he doesn't have a set price, but I'm guessing between
four and five hundred for a set. You'd then have to have them laced up.
They'll come with bushings for the normal straight axle gear.
If anyone is interested, l'll compile a list and when mine are done I'll get you
pictures and specs and if you like them you guys can work deals out with him.
Douwe
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Model A water temp and oil pressure line routing
Date: Nov 17, 2004
I'm trying like crazy to keep as many lines as possible out of the cockpits and
run along the fuselage.
I'm not sure if this is a good idea for my oil pressure tube and my water temp
line. Putting them under the covering makes them inaccessable, but I'm not sure
if they need to be accessed ever.
They're both hard lines so are a little hard to get around the vertical members
in the cockpits cleanly.
I don't think they should run through the same conduit as my mag wires because
of heat and possible leakage, but maybe screwd to the fuse skin somewhere??
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wire Wheel info
Date: Nov 17, 2004
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Hi Clif,
My wing LE is 12.63" aft of the firewall, so the axle is 6-7/8" aft of the leading
edge of the wing. My wing is 3-3/4" aft of vertical and I might move it another
=BC" aft or so to move my CG a bit further forward (as a percentage of
wing chord). Right now with me alone and minimal fuel, my CG is right at the
aft limit.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
Jack,
How far aft of the wing LE?
Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2004
Subject: Rib stitching question
From: "Christopher Friel" <cjfriel(at)ucdavis.edu>
Hello everybody,
Is it necessary to rib-stitch the tail-feathers when
covering?
Chris Friel
Davis, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2004
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Rib stitching question
YES...They are in the propeller slipstream, so spacing is recommended half the
normal spacing.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 17, 2004
Subject: Cable & Lines - routing
In a message dated 11/17/04 7:38:33 AM Central Standard Time,
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< I don't think they should run through the same conduit as my mag wires
because of heat and possible leakage, but maybe screwd to the fuse skin
somewhere?? >>
Douwe,
I prefer to have access to items that may need future service. I ran the
oil pressure line, and oil temp line along the starboard side of the front
cockpit, secured under the longeron, with rubber coated aluminum Adel clamps (P
clamps), and they are completely out of the way of the front passenger, or
camping cargo. Now, the port side of the front pit is another story. I used a
3/8" steel tubing from the throttle lever, to just under the front panel, near
the forward cabane strut. From there I used a J3 throttle cable to the carb.
I used the length of the throttle cable to determine how long the 3/8" push /
pull tube would be. The Tach cable was the biggest challenge, because there
was just no way to route it to the back of the tach, which is down low on the
port side of my instrument panel. I even made a tapered wedge to mount the
tach in, so it faces the pilot a little bit, and helps keep the tach cable point
a little bit toward the longeron. The tach cable sticks out of the front of
the panel, right in the way of passenger climbing in and out. I also have the
P-Leads, Pitot & Static lines, Carb heat cable, Fuel shut off cable, battery
leads are aircraft wire from the firewall mounted battery, smoke pump wire,
and now I plan on running a fuel mixture cable to the carb. Lots of stuff
there, but it is secure, and I haven't had any problems with any of it, except
for
the appearance. While we're talking about planning stuff in the front
pit, I also have 4 hard points on the floor, to secure cargo to. The front ones
are a fitting bolted to the lower, inner engine mount brackets. Last spring,
I changed the EL brackets on the inside of the forward landing gear / lift
strut attach point. I used .060 4130 steel, and instead of just bending an EL,
I added enough material to the vertical leg, to make a slight bend in at the
top, drilled a 1/4" hole in it, and I have two more hard points to secure cargo.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rib stitching question
Date: Nov 17, 2004
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Yes. Loss of fabric on the tail would be catastrophic. Besides,
assuming you are covering the tail first, it is good practice for
ribstitching the wing.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Friel [mailto:cjfriel(at)ucdavis.edu]
Hello everybody,
Is it necessary to rib-stitch the tail-feathers when
covering?
Chris Friel
Davis, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: straight gear brake drums
I would be interested in seeing the pics.
Doc
--- Douwe Blumberg
wrote:
> A machinist friend and myself have designed a brake
> drum/wheel hub combo for straight axle gear that
> will fit inside the wire wheel, so nothing
> protrudes.
>
> It will use eight inch hydraulic brake innerds and a
> custom made aluminum drum/hub assembly.
>
> He is interested in making up a few more sets if
> there is enough interest. At this point he's
> willing to sell a few almost at cost so he can get
> them on airplanes and get the word out.
>
> He hasn't finished mine yet so he doesn't have a set
> price, but I'm guessing between four and five
> hundred for a set. You'd then have to have them
> laced up. They'll come with bushings for the normal
> straight axle gear.
>
> If anyone is interested, l'll compile a list and
> when mine are done I'll get you pictures and specs
> and if you like them you guys can work deals out
> with him.
>
> Douwe
> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: you remember, Chuck !
Last year in 2003 when I approached Brodhead I had a huge tailwind and was
making
over 100 mph on the GPS from Chicago northward.........but after circling
Brodhead Airport
I was pretty pissed to see they had the NE-SW runway X'ed out. I never
have landed in that kind
of crosswind in my life but thanks be to God it turned out okay with a last
second plunk and shove the
aileron all the way over. What a picnic that was. Hand me a beer,
will you ?
Mike C.
PS-- in retrospect I should have just landed on the X-ed out runway as
NOBODY was taxiing or flying for
good reason !!!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: bungee tightness & war stories
Group-- I've mentioned before that when my bungees were too loose I had a
helluva time taking off
at the Waco fly-in one year because even tho I had full left stick in on
takeoff the "authority" there was
not 'connecting' with the gear. The wind basically overpowered the
bungees and I could not 'dig' my wing
into the wind. That was really disconcerting. Perhaps that is the story
you were thinking of Chuck ?
I went home and re-wrapped them tighter. Another thing I've had happen is
that I get one wrapped tighter than
the tother and then she rides funny.
I don't have any real gap in my bungees when the plane is empty but with
full fuel and a passenger I'm off the
ash blocks by about an inch and somewhere, somehwere I read that Pietenpol
said "that's about right". Dunno.
Depends on how soft or hard a ride you like. Either way-- I love that
landing gear 100%.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: you remember, Chuck !
You bet Michael, choice of "runway" is pilot's
discretion whenever there are potential hazards, ie.
strong winds and tail-draggers. I have landed in some
pretty strange places on airports because of that
reason. Old biplanes just hate cross-winds and hard
surface runways almost never seem to face into the
wind.
Doc
--- Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
>
> Last year in 2003 when I approached Brodhead I had a
> huge tailwind and was
> making
> over 100 mph on the GPS from Chicago
> northward.........but after circling
> Brodhead Airport
> I was pretty pissed to see they had the NE-SW runway
> X'ed out. I never
> have landed in that kind
> of crosswind in my life but thanks be to God it
> turned out okay with a last
> second plunk and shove the
> aileron all the way over. What a picnic that was.
> Hand me a beer,
> will you ?
>
> Mike C.
>
> PS-- in retrospect I should have just landed on the
> X-ed out runway as
> NOBODY was taxiing or flying for
> good reason !!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
Subject: Re: you remember, Chuck !
Date: Nov 17, 2004
I used to work at San Carlos (SQL) in California. There was a 15 knot
crosswind or more pretty much all year long. When the wind would finally go
down the pipe everyone religiously blew their landings. Now, up here in the
bush it's a different story altogether. Especially in the winter during
snow removal..."pick a runway, any runway."
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 18, 2004
Subject: Re: you remember, Chuck !
In a message dated 11/17/04 1:12:29 PM Central Standard Time,
Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes:
<< I never have landed in that kind of crosswind in my life >>
Ah, yes...I remember that windy arrival well !! I watched you land, and
from that far away, it didn't really look like you had much problem. I got to
Brodhead just about 15 or 20 minutes ahead of you, Mike, and those big yellow
X's got my attention, too, because I've never landed in that kind of
crosswind, either. I buzzed the X'ed out runway two times, to chase all the riff
raff
off of the runway, and went ahead and landed on the closed runway. It was
easy enough to land short. But, of course, when I passed by the crowd during
the fly - by, I gave them all a BIG 'YEEEEE HAAWWW !!' After I taxied in, and
shut down, someone politely came up to me and let me know I just landed on a
closed runway. I said "Is that what those big yellow X's are for ?? I
thought they were supposed to be big White X's !!" he he he !!
I also remember well that Saturday evening, after the pork chop feast.
The wind finally did settle down some, and they opened the runway that was
favorable to the conditions, and everybody headed for the sky !! That was by far,
the most aircraft in the pattern that I've ever been with !! There must have
been 12 or 15 planes in the pattern...best head on a swivel, white knuckle
flying I've ever done !! It seemed like everyplace I looked, there were several
of planes in the sky...Way Cool !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 18, 2004
Subject: Re: bungee tightness & war stories
In a message dated 11/17/04 1:22:37 PM Central Standard Time,
Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes:
<< Group-- I've mentioned before that when my bungees were too loose I had a
helluva time taking off
at the Waco fly-in one year because even tho I had full left stick in on
takeoff the "authority" there was
not 'connecting' with the gear. The wind basically overpowered the
bungees and I could not 'dig' my wing
into the wind. That was really disconcerting. Perhaps that is the story
you were thinking of Chuck ? >>
Yes, Mike, I think that was the war story I was thinking of. I had
similar experience when my bunji's were too loose on the split axle gear.
I haven't flown for three weeks, now. I missed one or two chances to
fly, but it has been raining here for almost a week. I think I'm getting
withdrawal symptoms. When I'm driving my car, and I'm getting off an exit, I'm
thinking...'OK, final approach...watch the airspeed...keep it on the center
line...yeah, that one felt good...taxi up the driveway, and shut down.
Three weeks ago, I was doing some pattern work, practicing those right
crosswind landings. On three consecutive touch & goes, I managed to land on the
right wheel, add just a little bit of power, and keep the left wheel off the
surface for a couple hundred feet, then add full power, and go again, without
ever touching the left wheel down. Quite a good challenge. Then I took a
female passenger, for a flight down south of Cook Airfield, and did a small
portion of the 'River Run'.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2004
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Turnbuckles etc.
Just got back from a business trip to DC and spent some time in the
Smithonian Air and Space museum. Had several pages shown on a display
from an aircraft equipment catalog from the early twenties. Us Piet
people would love it if this company was still in business. They had
aircraft turnbuckles for $2.50 a dozen (at that time hardare store
turnbuckles would probably be under a buck for a dozen), and complete
spoke wheels with I thnk 5 or 6 in hubs, 20 to 28 inch diameter for
$6.00 to $9.00. Also had mounts and parts for Glenn Curtis engines,
etc. Would love to find a reproduction of that catalog.
Rick Holland
>
> Hello: A good source for turnbuckles is B & B Aircraft of Gardner Ks.
> (Ks. City) I was up there in June and he had a tray full of them for
> $8.95 each. In a 1995 Buckeye news letter, John Greenlee gave an address
> for the Co. that made his radiator. ..Bell Mfg. Bowie Tx. Ask for Dave.
> 817-872-2227, 1800-433-0939. They make radiators for oil well pump
> engines. Greenlee said several builders have since bought from them.
> They have the drawings on file and could whip one out for you for $250.
> Not as pretty as a Lovely radiator, solder seams and marks are visible,
> but Greenlee thought the rough huen look went well with the Piet which
> has a 30's rough huen look any way. I would imagine if your engine has
> the modern Ken Pirkens water pump you could run pressure, but not with
> the original pump with the old packing gland seal. Larry Williams rad.
> is not a VW golf rad., but it is similar. He had overheating problems in
> the beginning, but that went away after brake in. NEW POTENTIAL
> BUILDER....The plans are pure @%!&> Pretty good for a 15 year old kid
> who drew them up from a completed airplane, but BHP who build around 23
> airplanes never bothered to redraw a cleaned up, corrected set of plans.
> Builders are still making the same mistakes 75 years later. You can get
> around plans problems by asking lots of questions from people on this
> list who have figured these things out. I would be afraid to buy a
> project from some one who wasn't on this list. Leon Stefan Nickerson
> Ks. with a barrel full of scrap, junk do overs because I interpreted he
> vague areas of the plans wrong.
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
From: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 18, 2004
Subject: Landing gear question
Group,
I am planning to use wire wheels on my Piet, and I'm curious. Has anyone
used the Skyscout landing gear on an Aircamper? I like the spring
arrangement and the "look" of the gear. It looks like some redesign of the fuselage
bracing might be needed. Any feedback will be welcome. Thanx! Don Cooley
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Borodent(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 19, 2004
Subject: Re: straight gear brake drums
Im interested in wour brake wheels - please send me additional infop when
available
Henry Williams
59 Crescent Dr
Huntington NY 11743
email Borodent(at)aol.com
tel 631 423 1813
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2004
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: straight gear brake drums---a photo of some
Henry Williams---- your distant cousin Larry Williams has just that thing.
Check out this photo of his setup-----ala Simon McCormack of Tasmania,
Australia too.
Mike C.
PS----Larry is on the list if you have questions.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2004
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Model A water temp and oil pressure line routing
Just a general question about engine instruments related to this,
wouldn't it be easier to use instruments with electronic sender units
so you only have to run wires from the firewall back to the instrument
panel? Rather than oil and water lines and a ridgid tach cable? Am
trying to figure out what engine instruments to get for my corvair
conversion.
Rick H
wrote:
>
>
>
> I'm trying like crazy to keep as many lines as possible out of the cockpits
> and run along the fuselage.
>
> I'm not sure if this is a good idea for my oil pressure tube and my water
> temp line. Putting them under the covering makes them inaccessable, but I'm
> not sure if they need to be accessed ever.
>
> They're both hard lines so are a little hard to get around the vertical
> members in the cockpits cleanly.
>
> I don't think they should run through the same conduit as my mag wires
> because of heat and possible leakage, but maybe screwd to the fuse skin
> somewhere??
>
> Douwe
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAtAhRyBdYyT6M/DAKgBI0SPvayLXlFpwIVALKKH9OHrq3YRJk5U7AYCQvAKQWn
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Nov 19, 2004
Subject: Model A ist, lines
I am going to mount my water temp and oil pressure gauge along the side
of my radiator so as to not have to worry about routing them to the
cockpit. Also I bought a tach from Wix that has a small generator that
mounts on the engine tach drive location. Then you run wires to the
tachometer rather then having to run a cable. The tachometer figures out
the rpm from the elect. impulses. I believe I have also seen tachometers
that read rpm from a plug wire. Getting rid of the drive cable and
possibly 2 90deg. drives sure makes things easy. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Model A water temp and oil pressure line routing
Date: Nov 19, 2004
all my guages are electric. my primer is also electric. there are no fuel
or oil lines running through my airframe.
I'm using the Grand Rapids Technologies EIS 2004. It's a digital engine
monitoring system. It'll keep tabs on anything you can think of and best of
all is it takes upless space than two 3.125" instruments... here's a few
thing I'll use it for
oil temp
oil press
RPM
OAT
hour meter
2 CHT's (left and right banks)
2 EGT's (left and right exhaust pipes)
volts
manifold pressure
fuel flow
I'm also running a corvair conversion.
DJ Vegh
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A water temp and oil pressure line
routing
>
> Just a general question about engine instruments related to this,
> wouldn't it be easier to use instruments with electronic sender units
> so you only have to run wires from the firewall back to the instrument
> panel? Rather than oil and water lines and a ridgid tach cable? Am
> trying to figure out what engine instruments to get for my corvair
> conversion.
>
> Rick H
>
>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm trying like crazy to keep as many lines as possible out of the
>> cockpits
>> and run along the fuselage.
>>
>> I'm not sure if this is a good idea for my oil pressure tube and my water
>> temp line. Putting them under the covering makes them inaccessable, but
>> I'm
>> not sure if they need to be accessed ever.
>>
>> They're both hard lines so are a little hard to get around the vertical
>> members in the cockpits cleanly.
>>
>> I don't think they should run through the same conduit as my mag wires
>> because of heat and possible leakage, but maybe screwd to the fuse skin
>> somewhere??
>>
>> Douwe
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Model A ist, lines
That's a great idea on the oil pressure and water temp
gauges. I hadn't thought of that. That would
simplify things quite a bit. I would like to know
more about the tach too. Does Wix have a website? If
so do you have the address? Thanks.
Doc
--- Leon Stefan wrote:
> lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
>
> I am going to mount my water temp and oil pressure
> gauge along the side
> of my radiator so as to not have to worry about
> routing them to the
> cockpit. Also I bought a tach from Wix that has a
> small generator that
> mounts on the engine tach drive location. Then you
> run wires to the
> tachometer rather then having to run a cable. The
> tachometer figures out
> the rpm from the elect. impulses. I believe I have
> also seen tachometers
> that read rpm from a plug wire. Getting rid of the
> drive cable and
> possibly 2 90deg. drives sure makes things easy.
> Leon S.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 19, 2004
Subject: Re: Model A water temp and oil pressure line routing
In a message dated 11/19/04 8:30:17 AM Central Standard Time,
at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes:
<< wouldn't it be easier to use instruments with electronic sender units
so you only have to run wires from the firewall back to the instrument
panel? Rather than oil and water lines and a ridgid tach cable? >>
Yes, it would be easier, but you loose some reliability, unless you have an
electrical back up, but then you increase electrical complexity in the battery,
charging system, fuses, etc. If you have an engine driven charging system,
you are required to have a transponder. More stuff, and more stuff...simple is
always better...if it ain't there, it can't break !! If you have a total
electrical failure, you can still fly the plane long enough to get 'er on the
ground, albeit a bit more difficult. Most in flight fires begin in the
electrical system, too. If you do go the electrical route, I would urge you to
use
aircraft grade wire, terminals, and the proper crimping tool. There IS a
difference !!
DJ,
Does the Grand Rapids Technologies EIS 2004 system have an onboard back up
battery ? How much money do you have in the entire system ? I'm looking for a
system to use in my Tailwind. Electronics have come a long way in recent
years, but I'm just not sure about the reliability.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: tricks for cold weather flying?
Date: Nov 19, 2004
Any one talked about tricks for cold weather flying? The winters seem to be getting
colder and colder. Was wondering if anyone even made a canopy for a Piet,
even though it would be the ugliest thing that I could imagine.
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2004
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Mountain Flying
John is absolutely correct, used to take students up to Leadville
airport, 9927ft. for mountain checkouts:
http://www.leadvilleairport.com/
On an 80 degree day in the summer that is 13542 ft. density altitude
(thats why John turboed his Piet). Good thing the runway was 6400 ft.
long. One other thing to watch for going over passes especially when
you may have a good headwind and a rotor at the top of the ridge. You
can climb 2000 to 3000 feet above the ridgetop before attempting to go
over and the downdraft from the rotor will pull you down below the
altitude of the ridgetop before you get to it. Always approach at an
angle so you can pull away and get back and gain more altitude to try
again.
RH
>
> Chuck G. and other "Pieters"
>
> I think that the '05 Tour that you guys are thinking about is great!
>
> However, since I have some considerable experience in this mountain flying
> business, and built "Mountain Piet" expressly for this purpose, may I offer
> a few comments?
>
> Most Piets using 65-A Continentals and Corvairs become single passenger
> (the pilot only) airplanes. If you try and carry a full fuel load and then
> all the camping stuff too, it may be too marginal to get your plane off the
> ground. It can be really embarrasing to take off of an airport at 4,000
> feet, fly up to an airport at 7,000 feet and try to take off the next day
> when the temperature has gone up, believe me, I've done it! However, most
> people don't mind you staying an extra day!
>
> It is not unusual the have the density altitude easily on a summer day
> exceed over 11,000 feet at our airport which is at about 7,500 feet. This
> is due to the temperature rise as the day progresses. If you don't have
> enough power and a long enough runway with a clear departure, then you are
> flirting with disaster. I have seen overloaded Bonanza's and 210's struggle
> to get into the air, enough where we run out of the terminal to see if the
> idiot made it! You have to keep it light! Also, always lean your engine
> before take off so that you are getting maximum power.
>
> Two reasons not to fly during midday. As I said above, the density altitude
> can be higher than the service ceiling of the plane. Additionally, the
> turbulence can really have you " biting the buttons out of the seat" at
> midday. A poorly constucted and overloaded plane may well suffer structural
> damage due to extreme turbulence at midday.. Best to get out at first
> daylight and then plan to quit before 11:00 AM. Things sometimes calm down
> toward evening.
>
> I always follow a road when flying in the mountains or at least have one in
> gliding range. If you have to put it down, then do it close to or on the
> road, the rescuers won't have to climb mountains to find and recover your
> remains!
>
> Landings at our altitude in a Piet will be hotter than a firecracker
> compared to what you are used to at sea level. The airspeed indicator will
> show the same air speed, but the ground speed will be higher than you are
> used to. Since a Piet has a lot of drag, make sure that you carry extra
> energy on final, either with power or a steep glide angle. You will get
> used to it, go back to sea level and think you are landing in molasses!
>
> When going through a pass, always gain enough altitude so you can see to the
> other side before starting through. There is no way that your plane is
> going to climb as steeply as the terrain rises! We pick several planes a
> year along with the bodies off our mountains who have made this mistake.
> Also, many passes look the same to a flatlander who hasn't been here before,
> make sure that the pass is the one that you filed in your flight plan, the
> rescuers want to know where to start looking!
>
> Now I know that all of this seems to make mountain flying dangerous, it is
> not! It is just different. Follow the rules and use common sense and you
> will find it one of the most rewarding experiences you will ever have in an
> airplane. Get a book, read it, and then enjoy the view. If you don't think
> that you have enough power, plan to go across either Wyoming or down across
> New Mexico.
>
> Have warm clothes, the temperature drops about 3 degrees for every thousand
> feet above ground level. This temperature drop plus the wind chill factor
> at 70 mph will make you want to give up open cockpits forever.
>
> That's enough of the "Gospel according to St. John" :o)
>
> If you do decide to come through our area, please give me a call, we have a
> couple of unused bedrooms downstairs.
>
> Boy, do I miss "Mountain Piet".
>
> John Dilatush,
> Salida, Colorado
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2004
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
Mike Cuy has the best idea, make a sling that snaps into the passenger
compartment, remove the removable front joystick and fill it full of
junk. All right near the CG too.
wrote:
>
> Hey guys (and gals?)
>
> This is for you guys who have built up some hours on your Piets. I'm
> outfitting the cockpit and want to know in your experience, what is really
> needed in terms of cubby holes, map storage pockets, jacket compartment etc.
> I've built two small glove boxes under the seat and am making a map holder
> on the right side where the diagonal meets the vertical sidemember. Should
> I do two of these?
>
> There also seems to be room in front of the passenger (Ford powered) for a
> nice size storage area.
>
> With no actual experience, I'm not sure what is really needed and what's
> overkill.
>
> Thanks,
> Douwe
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
From: alexms1(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Model A water temp and oil pressure line routing
Date: Nov 19, 2004
Rick,
I am going to use a Corvair also. I bought a tach that counts the teeth on the
starter gear, I have an electric sender for the oil pressure. I will have only
wires running into the cockpit. I will start out using cyl. head temps measured
from thermocouples placed under the spark plugs. Clark's sells senders
for this that screw into the heads. No fuel pressure gage needed as I will be
using head pressure from the tank. Fuel pump not needed. I will have a selector
switch for selecting which set of coils I will be using as I will be using
Wm. Wynne's dual point distributor. Again, only wires coming into the cockpit.
Not sure what else I will be using as I have not started the engine hook
up yet.
Hope this helps.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> Just a general question about engine instruments related to this,
> wouldn't it be easier to use instruments with electronic sender units
> so you only have to run wires from the firewall back to the instrument
> panel? Rather than oil and water lines and a ridgid tach cable? Am
> trying to figure out what engine instruments to get for my corvair
> conversion.
>
> Rick H
>
>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm trying like crazy to keep as many lines as possible out of the cockpits
> > and run along the fuselage.
> >
> > I'm not sure if this is a good idea for my oil pressure tube and my water
> > temp line. Putting them under the covering makes them inaccessable, but I'm
> > not sure if they need to be accessed ever.
> >
> > They're both hard lines so are a little hard to get around the vertical
> > members in the cockpits cleanly.
> >
> > I don't think they should run through the same conduit as my mag wires
> > because of heat and possible leakage, but maybe screwd to the fuse skin
> > somewhere??
> >
> > Douwe
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Rick,
I am going to use a Corvair also. I bought a tach that counts the teeth
on the starter gear, I have an electric sender for the oil pressure.
I will have only wires running into the cockpit. I will start out using
cyl. head temps measured from thermocouples placed under the spark plugs.
Clark's sells senders for this that screw into the heads. No fuel pressure
gage needed as I will be using head pressure from the tank. Fuel pump
not needed. I will have a selector switch for selecting which set of
coils I will beusing as I will be using Wm. Wynne's dual point distributor.Again,
only wires coming into the cockpit. Not sure what
else I will be using as I have not started the engine hook up yet.
Hope this helps.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Pietenpol-List
message posted by: Rick Holland
Just a general question about engine instruments related to this,
wouldn't it be easier to use instruments with electronic sender units
so you only have to run wires from the firewall back to the instrument
panel? Rather than oil and water lines and a ridgid tach cable? Am
trying to figure out what engine instruments to get for my corvair
conversion.
Rick H
On Wed, 17 Nov
wrote:
I'm trying like crazy
to keep as many lines as possible out of the cockpits
and run
along the fuselage.
I'
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Model A water temp and oil pressure line routing
Date: Nov 19, 2004
no backup battery.... in my case with a coil ignition if the main battery
goes ded I have other issues to worry about other than monitoring engine
param's.
I'm very impressed with the EIS. The coolest feautre is there is a big
remote mounted red master warning light that will flash as soon as a certain
value has exceeded pilot set parameters. The affected parameter will also
blink on the display. The light will stop blinking when the pilot pushes
the "acknowledge" button but will not fully extinguish until the affected
parameter is back under the limits.
Forgot to mention earlier that the EIS will monitor coolant pressure and
coolant temps for you water cooled dudes.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
> DJ,
> Does the Grand Rapids Technologies EIS 2004 system have an onboard back up
> battery ? How much money do you have in the entire system ? I'm looking
> for a
> system to use in my Tailwind. Electronics have come a long way in recent
> years, but I'm just not sure about the reliability.
>
> Chuck G.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Re: tricks for cold weather flying?
Date: Nov 19, 2004
a full coverage helmet and a snowmobile suit help. Snowmobile suits are available
on e-bay for $50 .
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 3:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tricks for cold weather flying?
Any one talked about tricks for cold weather flying? The winters seem to be
getting colder and colder. Was wondering if anyone even made a canopy for a Piet,
even though it would be the ugliest thing that I could imagine.
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2004
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Model A water temp and oil pressure line routing
I have one in my sonex with a corvair, Its better then any panel full of steam
guages.
Del
DJ Vegh wrote:
no backup battery.... in my case with a coil ignition if the main battery
goes ded I have other issues to worry about other than monitoring engine
param's.
I'm very impressed with the EIS. The coolest feautre is there is a big
remote mounted red master warning light that will flash as soon as a certain
value has exceeded pilot set parameters. The affected parameter will also
blink on the display. The light will stop blinking when the pilot pushes
the "acknowledge" button but will not fully extinguish until the affected
parameter is back under the limits.
Forgot to mention earlier that the EIS will monitor coolant pressure and
coolant temps for you water cooled dudes.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From:
> DJ,
> Does the Grand Rapids Technologies EIS 2004 system have an onboard back up
> battery ? How much money do you have in the entire system ? I'm looking
> for a
> system to use in my Tailwind. Electronics have come a long way in recent
> years, but I'm just not sure about the reliability.
>
> Chuck G.
>
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: mag grounding
Date: Nov 19, 2004
Finally got my "A" engine from the engine guy and it is beautiful. Can't wait
to get it mounted.
Everything I've read (Bingelas, etc) says that the mags should be grounded and
they have a grounding screw, but I'm not sure why since the mag body is positively
grounded to the engine already. Am I missing something? do I still need
to ground them with a wire to some bolt?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Beautiful A2 leather flying jacket
Date: Nov 19, 2004
Anybody want a beautiful Avirtex A2 leather flying jacket for about two hundred
less than new?
My girlfriend bought me one not knowing I had just got one for myself not long
ago. She picked it up on ebay, it is used in very good shape, a little worn in
which is perfect. Size 42 dark brown authentic 1940 pattern, made in the USA!
picked it up for $66.00 and will let it go for that plus shipping.
Douwe
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: flippy floppy super twisty ailerons
Date: Nov 19, 2004
My ailerons are built and ready to cover. I was noticing how easy they are able
to twist from end to end. I'm assuming that after covering and stitching that
ease of twisting will go away.
Not that there is a straight comparison between the two, but I know that my RC
airplane wings always stiffened up after covering.
Same deal with the wings... my wings are very "twisty" I know the lift struts
will keep them in check but outboard of the struts they can twist fairly easily.
am I correct in assuming that after these things are covered I won't be able to
twist them like a piece of red licorice??
DJ
_
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: mag grounding
Date: Nov 19, 2004
wow, congratulations!
What engine guy? Ken Perkins or someone else?
I'm still wrestling with the engine choice thing and want to know about any and
all "engine" guys I might want to tap when the time comes.
Thanks and again, congratulations! (I'm envious!)
JM
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 8:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: mag grounding
Finally got my "A" engine from the engine guy and it is beautiful. Can't wait
to get it mounted.
Everything I've read (Bingelas, etc) says that the mags should be grounded and
they have a grounding screw, but I'm not sure why since the mag body is positively
grounded to the engine already. Am I missing something? do I still need
to ground them with a wire to some bolt?
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2004
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: mag grounding
Hi Douwe.
If you get an answer to that one, I would also like to
know. Ken Perkins probably knows the answer to the
mag question. He is doing my engine for me and is
very knowledgable on Model A engines and mags.
Doc
>
>
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: electric tachs and "A" engine guys
Date: Nov 20, 2004
Larry Williams uses, and I am going to use an electric tach made by Westach, I
think they're listed in aircraft spruce catalog. They make a tach that runs off
the p lead of the mag and needs no other power source. There is just one tiny
wire running up and poof! you're done. Do install a 16 amp in line fuse because
theoretically if a short developed in the tach it could stop your mag.
The guy that did my "A" engine is Ron Kelly in Texas. He's a model "A" guru who
builds up engines for endurance racing etc. He's got a website, don't know
the exact address but his business name is RK Designs which might be it, or just
search. I opted for inserts over babbit and a counterbalanced crank and modern
chevy pistons for extra strength. I know that Perkins does a beautiful job
and is extremely knowlegable.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 20, 2004
Subject: Re: mag grounding
In a message dated 11/19/04 8:04:14 PM Central Standard Time,
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< Everything I've read (Bingelas, etc) says that the mags should be grounded
and they have a grounding screw, but I'm not sure why since the mag body is
positively grounded to the engine already. Am I missing something? do I still
need to ground them with a wire to some bolt? >>
Yes, you still need to ground the mag to the engine block. Better safe, than
sorry.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: mag grounding
Date: Nov 20, 2004
You will need to run a ground to the mag switch to make it work. Also, you will
want to ground to bond to your VHF and it is recommended that you have a ground
plate somewhere. My plane has an aluminum access plate on the underside behind
the rear cockpit Fuel tank is also grounded.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 8:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: mag grounding
Finally got my "A" engine from the engine guy and it is beautiful. Can't wait
to get it mounted.
Everything I've read (Bingelas, etc) says that the mags should be grounded and
they have a grounding screw, but I'm not sure why since the mag body is positively
grounded to the engine already. Am I missing something? do I still need
to ground them with a wire to some bolt?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Stinemetze" <stinemetze(at)mpks.net>
Subject: Re: straight gear brake drums---a photo of some
Date: Nov 20, 2004
HI folks. I'm rather new to the site and still haven't got it all
figured out. For instance, when a message like the one I am replying to
mentions "here's a photo" but there is no corresponding link - how do
you go about finding it?
Don't want to bore you with long-winded introductions but looks like
you're in for a short one anyway. I have a son (Matthew Stinemetze) who
works for Burt Rutan out in Mojave, CA. He was the lead engineer during
the construction phase of SpaceShipOne and then got to fly on the mother
ship White Knight as flight engineer many times including the two
of the X-Prize cash as well. He's only 28 - THAT'S NOT FAIR!
Anyway, I decided that my kids shouldn't have all the fun so I took that
event as a challenge to try a couple of fun things myself. After
dreaming flying my whole live (he came by it honestly, he had to live
with books, models, etc. etc., etc. during his childhood) I have decided
to build an Air Camper in my workshop. It's going to be powered by a
Corvair 110 HP engine which is already torn down and under way, and
pulled by a hand-carved prop (been through Al Schubert's manual about
three times and pretty close to getting started.) I have already
collected manuals from William Wynne (The Corvair Authority), Al
Schubert (the propeller guy), various GM manuals, catalogues from
Aircraft Spruce and Sporty's, and plans from the Pietenpol family. Oh
Yeah, somewhere in there I've got to get a pilot's license too.
Think that's too much to bite off for a 54-year old "pleasantly plump"
guy from McPherson? Maybe I should just change by e-mail moniker to
McIdiot?
Kudos to the webmaster for a great site for much-needed information.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Sheer strength for AN bolts?
Date: Nov 20, 2004
AS&S lists the Tensil strength for AN bolts as 125,000 psi. Anybody know what
the Sheer capacity is. Or if not, what is a typical ratio for bolts?
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: flippy floppy super twisty ailerons
Date: Nov 20, 2004
Hi Dj
When the covering is on, everything tightens up. When the ailerons are attached
to the wing, there will be no twist. The wing will still have a bit of give.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 8:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: flippy floppy super twisty ailerons
My ailerons are built and ready to cover. I was noticing how easy they are able
to twist from end to end. I'm assuming that after covering and stitching
that ease of twisting will go away.
Not that there is a straight comparison between the two, but I know that my RC
airplane wings always stiffened up after covering.
Same deal with the wings... my wings are very "twisty" I know the lift struts
will keep them in check but outboard of the struts they can twist fairly easily.
am I correct in assuming that after these things are covered I won't be able
to twist them like a piece of red licorice??
DJ
_
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2004
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Sheer strength for AN bolts?
<001501c4cf69$1df02690$6701a8c0@computername>
2/3 X tensile or 83,333.3 psi , whichever comes first. :-)
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Conoly
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 5:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sheer strength for AN bolts?
AS&S lists the Tensil strength for AN bolts as 125,000 psi. Anybody know what
the Sheer capacity is. Or if not, what is a typical ratio for bolts?
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
From: alexms1(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: straight gear brake drums---a photo of some
Date: Nov 21, 2004
Tom,
Welcome to the club. Once you get the "itch" to build, it never goes away. Only
cure for the "itch" is to scratch it out in the work shop on a daily basis
. I got the "itch" in 1973 and the Pietenpol is the third case so far. When
it is done, who knows?
Alex S.
-------------- Original message --------------
HI folks. Im rather new to the site and still havent got it all figured out.
For instance, when a message like the one I am replying to mentions heres
a photo but there is no corresponding link how do you go about finding it?
Dont want to bore you with long-winded introductions but looks like youre in
for a short one anyway. I have a son (Matthew Stinemetze) who works for Burt
Rutan out in Mojave, CA. He was the lead engineer during the construction phase
of SpaceShipOne and then got to fly on the mother ship White Knight as flight
engineer many times including the two X-Prize flights. Burt gave every employee
of Scaled Composites a piece of the X-Prize cash as well. Hes only 28
THATS NOT FAIR!
Anyway, I decided that my kids shouldnt have all the fun so I took that event
as a challenge to try a couple of fun things myself. After dreaming flying my
whole live (he came by it honestly, he had to live with books, models, etc. etc.,
etc. during his childhood) I have decided to build an Air Camper in my workshop.
Its going to be powered by a Corvair 110 HP engine which is already
torn down and under way, and pulled by a hand-carved prop (been through Al Schuberts
manual about three times and pretty close to getting started.) I have
already collected manuals from William Wynne (The Corvair Authority), Al Schubert
(the propeller guy), various GM manuals, catalogues from Aircraft Spruce
and Sportys, and plans from the Pietenpol family. Oh Yeah, somewhere in there
Ive got to get a pilots license too.
Think thats too much to bite off for a 54-year old pleasantly plump guy from
McPherson? Maybe I should just change by e-mail moniker to McIdiot?
Kudos to the webmaster for a great site for much-needed information.
Tom,
Welcome to the club. Once you get the "itch" to build, it never
goes away. Only cure for the "itch" is to scratch it out in the work shop
ona daily basis . I got the "itch" in 1973 and the Pietenpol is
the third case so far. When it is done, who knows?
Alex S.
-------------- Original message --------------
HI folks. Im rather new to the site
and still havent got it all figured out.
For instance, when a message like the one I am replying to mentions heres
a photo but there is no corresponding link how do you go about finding
it?
November 01, 2004 - November 20, 2004
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ee