Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-eh
January 04, 2005 - February 01, 2005
> http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/browseproducts/Winding-Sticks.html
>
> Clif
>
> >
> .I have flattened one end of my
> > rudder bar and I'm in doubt as to how to guarantee that when the other end
> > is flattened, it will wind up in the same plane as the first. Any
> > advice???....Carl Vought
> >
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Joy stick question |
Are the 2 fork bottom ends of the joysticks drilled 1/4" for the 1/4"
bolt or 3/8" to go over the 3/8" rod which is welded inside the torque
tube?
Thanks
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Joy stick question |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
I drilled and reamed mine 1/4". If you welded the 3/8" tube to the
torque tube, and had 3/8" holes in the stick fork, how would you get it
over the ends of the tube?
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
Are the 2 fork bottom ends of the joysticks drilled 1/4" for the 1/4"
bolt or 3/8" to go over the 3/8" rod which is welded inside the torque
tube?
Thanks
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john s" <smoyer98(at)snip.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Tube fit |
What if you install the torque tube before the seats are installed? Does this
create some other problem?
I noticed that in the original plans, an aileron horn is not mounted on the torque
tube. Instead, the control cables attache to lugs welded to the stick. It
looks like this installation can be completed after the seats are installed.
Would appreciate any comments you folks have on these thoughts, so I'll know if
I'm missing something.
Thanks for all the great info passed along on this site.
John S
----- Original Message -----
From: alexms1(at)comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque Tube fit
Rick,
Are you building the extended fuselage? That is what mine is and perhaps that
has something to do with it. I have no problem installing my torque tube controls.
Alex
-------------- Original message --------------
Alex,
The fit problem I had with my torque tube was due to its length. When I tried
to fit the completed torque tube (Pulley supports and aileron horn welded in
place) the aileron horn and front pulley support hit the front seat back before
I could get the rear of the torque tube to clear the front of the rear seat.
What I finally wound up doing is putting a 3/4" grove with a rotary sander
in the front cross brace of the rear seat. Since the center of my rear seat is
removable, I am going to just rebrace the seat and put a small cover over the
hole. I think this is what others have done in the past that have had the same
problem. The misfit was not off by much, so I am sure that on some Piet's the
torque tube goes in fine.
I spent today mounting my tailfeathers and trying to locate the ideal position
for the elevator bellcrank to get rid of cable slack and rubbing of the cables
on the horizontal stab.
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: 12/31/04 9:44:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque Tube fit
Richard,
When you say your torque tube does not fit just where does it not fit? I
had no trouble placeing mine in for a temporary trial fit. I have not as yet
placed the rudder bar as I am not sure as just what the distance from the seat
front support it should be positioned. Other than that, Where is your problem?
I may have a problem and not know it.
Happy New Year.
Alex S.
-------------- Original message --------------
I just finished the rest of the welding on my torque tube and can't seem
to get it to fit. From previous posts I new this was a problem so I mocked up
the torque tube with wood and plastic. The fit was going to be tight but seemed
to work out. Unfortunately the real thing wont fit. I know that Walt Evans
and a couple of others have notched the rear seat to clear the rear pulley support,
but I hate to do this if their is another solution. Has everyone else run
into this same problem or is it just me? If you have what were the solutions?
It looks like if I make the side leg openings in the front seat wider than
the 6 inches shown on the plans, it may allow the aileron horn enough clearance
to get the torque tube in, but I don't want to hog out more wood if it doesn't
work.
Richard Schreiber
lmforge(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
That's what I did, John - installed the torque tube and then built the
seats around it. No problems that way.
Jack Phillips
Fixing the other problems in NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: john s [mailto:smoyer98(at)snip.net]
What if you install the torque tube before the seats are installed?
Does this create some other problem?
I noticed that in the original plans, an aileron horn is not mounted on
the torque tube. Instead, the control cables attache to lugs welded to
the stick. It looks like this installation can be completed after the
seats are installed.
Would appreciate any comments you folks have on these thoughts, so I'll
know if I'm missing something.
Thanks for all the great info passed along on this site.
John S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Piet Cont. motor mount on ebay |
m>
No bids yet on this guys. Don't know who has it up, but be super careful
esp. that the firewall bolt hole
pattern will line up with your fuselage mounting fittings. (or that he
thinks it is for a Piet and it is really for a GN-1 or
vice-versa)
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4515967655&category=26439&sspagename=WDVW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Joy stick question |
Bend the forks a bit.
wrote:
>
> I drilled and reamed mine 1/4". If you welded the 3/8" tube to the
> torque tube, and had 3/8" holes in the stick fork, how would you get it
> over the ends of the tube?
>
> Jack Phillips
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> Are the 2 fork bottom ends of the joysticks drilled 1/4" for the 1/4"
> bolt or 3/8" to go over the 3/8" rod which is welded inside the torque
> tube?
>
> Thanks
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Tube fit |
Alex,
I am also building the long fuselage. As I said before, the torque tube came really
close to fitting. If I had made the leg openings a little wider, or the triangle
opening under the front set a little higher it would have probably fit
just fine. The notch I put in the middle of the rear seat is only 1/2 inch deep.
When I put the set bottom back on it is virtually invisible.
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Joy stick question |
Page 4 of the plans, top left, 1/4" bolt.
Page 27, Flying and Glider, 1/4" bolt,
admittedly a little hard to see, as per
usual. :-)
Clif
>
> Bend the forks a bit.
>
> > >
> > I drilled and reamed mine 1/4". If you welded the 3/8" tube to the
> > torque tube, and had 3/8" holes in the stick fork, how would you get it
> > over the ends of the tube?
> >
> > Jack Phillips
> > Are the 2 fork bottom ends of the joysticks drilled 1/4" for the 1/4"
> > bolt or 3/8" to go over the 3/8" rod which is welded inside the torque
> > tube?
> >
> > Thanks
> > --
> > Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: General metal working question |
<004c01c4f157$27c44740$3f375142@Spot>
One of the machinist tricks is to cut a block of material (wood would be
fine here) so the block's edges have all the correct angles on them
(square, hex, odd angles), then drill a hold through it, insert your
material and clamp somehow. Don't remove the block until all your bending,
drilling, jig boring or whatever is done. Figure out a way to reference the
block's edges safely away from your working area.
Jim Ash
>
>What alloy are you using? I used 4130 and Pressed it flat with a vice. I
>didn't heat it for fear of hardening it to the point of being unable to
>drill it for the fittings. 'Nuther question...I have flattened one end of my
>rudder bar and I'm in doubt as to how to guarantee that when the other end
>is flattened, it will wind up in the same plane as the first. Any
>advice???....Carl Vought
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
>To:
>Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 12:43 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: General metal working question
>
>
> > Rick
> >
> > No don't do it cold as this may cause cracking of the tubing. Also, don't
> > just whack it with a hammer. Been there done that. Basically what you
>want
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for Dave Rowe |
Sorry to bother everyone else on the list, but Dave Rowe, if you're out
there, please contact me off the list.
Or if any of you have Dave's contact info, if you would please share it with
me, I would like to talk to him about Yellow cedar.
Thanks,
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for Dave Rowe |
From an archive (http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html) search:
Match: #7 Message: #25437 Date: Apr 20, 2004 From: dave rowe
Subject: Re: aluminum parts
<006901c426f5$4ece4340$1b02a8c0@WorkGroup>
Roger that, things are pretty busy at the moment, but I will get them
out by the end of the week. Thanks for the interest!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Dave Rowe
Sorry to bother everyone else on the list, but Dave Rowe, if you're out
there, please contact me off the list.
Or if any of you have Dave's contact info, if you would please share it with
me, I would like to talk to him about Yellow cedar.
Thanks,
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for Dave Rowe |
Thanks Jim,
But I was in contact with Dave back in August, and he indicated that his
e-mail address would be discontinued at the end of the August, and would be
in touch. But no word yet.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim
Markle
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Dave Rowe
>From an archive (http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html) search:
dave rowe
-----Original Message-----
Sorry to bother everyone else on the list, but Dave Rowe, if you're out
there, please contact me off the list.
Or if any of you have Dave's contact info, if you would please share it with
me, I would like to talk to him about Yellow cedar.
Thanks,
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.net" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | missing drawings - help!! |
Can anyone help me? We've cleaned our basement and somehow have lost (misplaced
I hope) 3 drawings. The tail section, 3 piece wing and regular wing dwg with
the rib layout. I've found all the others. Anyone around MPLS that would be
willing to let me make a copy of these??? I have my capstrip on order and I'm
anxious to get going on the ribs as soon as it comes in.
PS: Pietenpol Aircamper dwgs - not GN-1
Thanks!
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for Dave Rowe |
I'm going to the Island ( Van Isle ) this weekend so I
can get Dave's number in the local book and call him.
I can also call his friend Paul if necessary
Considering what he does for a living he could even
be back in the middle east.
If so I hope he's got a good supply of cantalopes and
surgical tubing.
Clif
>
> Thanks Jim,
>
> But I was in contact with Dave back in August, and he indicated that his
> e-mail address would be discontinued at the end of the August, and would
be
> in touch. But no word yet.
>
> Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | quiet on the list/insurance |
Too quiet on this list, so I'll throw out a question and a comment.
First the comment. My repaired/overhauled carb (from the nose-over
incident) is on its way back to me from the rebuild shop in Corsicana as we
speak. With the carb in hand, I should be able to put in some fuel and fire
the engine to see if we can work on the carb heat situation. Airframe and
landing gear repairs are still underway.
Now the question. Sometime back, a kind soul posted information about
Butler-Brown insurance being very reasonable. My insurance will be coming
up for renewal this year and I was going to apply to Butler-Brown for a
quote but they require that you be a member of Antique Aircraft Association.
Not a big deal; $36 annual membership, which I should be able to afford if
their premiums are better than what I'm paying now. My question is, AAA has
"type clubs", one of which is a Pietenpol association, for additional annual
membership fees. Anyone have any comments as to the value of belonging to
AAA and/or its Pietenpol type club?
Happy Friday-!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: missing drawings - help!! |
| From: | horzpool(at)goldengate.net |
Tom
I'm out of town till about the 15th. If thats soon enough we can compare
drawings and see whats missing.
Dick N.
>
>
>
> Can anyone help me? We've cleaned our basement and somehow have lost
> (misplaced I hope) 3 drawings. The tail section, 3 piece wing and regular
> wing dwg with the rib layout. I've found all the others. Anyone around
> MPLS that would be willing to let me make a copy of these??? I have my
> capstrip on order and I'm anxious to get going on the ribs as soon as it
> comes in.
>
> PS: Pietenpol Aircamper dwgs - not GN-1
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tom B.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Alternate Woods, status report |
I do believe that the wood construction phase of my Piet is now virtually
complete. I began in earnest to build Feb. 1, 2002, almost three years ago.
Ive tried to use good Douglas Fir, and Basswood plywood wherever possible.A
year or so ago I compared fuselage weights with someone on the list here, and
I came up with 71 pounds, vs 70 pounds for a spruce fuse. I think that both
fuses were in about the same condition, but nothing definitve can be drawn from
these figures.
I began work on the wings a summer ago, laminating the spars from Fir, 7
layers. The ribs were of fir, with basswood gussets. Ive been working nearly
every day(Im retired), so I have to agree with the year and a half estimate
as
a reasonable time to build the wings(and center section ).
So 14 ribs(enough for one side of the wing), weighed very close to 5 pounds.I
truly do not believe that it would make a big difference if the pile weighed
4 pounds, or 6. So strength of wood here is not a problem either because the
capstrips are so large. Each laminated spar weighed 10 pounds at the start of
construction, so I began with 25 pounds of ribs and spars for each wing. Now
the ailerons are installed with piano hinges, and the metal fittings,etc. And
the wing weighs in at ------- pounds(Ill weigh them soon and report).
The wings have really been a pleasure to work on, even if there is a
multitude of parts. I built the tailfeathers first, then the fuse, then the Center
Section, finally the wings. Maybe if I built another Piet, I would do the wings
at the beginning.
We have a 35 Piet on the airport, which is non-flyable, but interesting. It
has a two-piece wing, which I am beginning to think is superior to the Vi
Kapler design, since the aileron control cables can be run directly to each wing.
Im still a little bit perplexed about how one connects the control cables
through the Center Section in such a way that they can be easily re-connected.
Im amazed at the difference the drag and anti-drag wires make to the
rigidity of the wing. I put in some temporary hardware store wires to stiffen the
wing while finishing it.
The fellow next to me is building a scaled Jenny, and has installed 3/32
cables for the drag and anti-drag braces. He uses Cable Bushings rather than
turnbuckles, twisting the cable to achieve the correct tension, after pulling the
cable tightly around the Bushing. It is easy to adjust the tension, each half
twist tightening the cable by about five pounds. His spec. calls for 35#
tension, a figure I think that I will use. I made a set of turnbuckles early on,
so
cost is not a factor, rather the weight saving and simpler hardware seems to
me to be worthwhile.
I bought the folded trailing edge at AS&S. Planning to clean the aluminum
carefully, then to Epoxy the T.E. to the ends of the ribs with T-88.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | aileron control cables |
ANNCARLEK wrote-
>Im still a little bit perplexed about how one connects the control cables
>through the Center Section in such a way that they can be easily
>re-connected.
I can tell you how that works, having just disconnected the cables on
my/Corky's Piet. Very clever. There are inspection covers on the wings
just outboard of the gaps between center section and outboard wing panels,
and you insert a removable link in the lower control cables going to each
aileron. I believe these are like motorcycle master links but with a clevis
pin at each end so you can remove them.
The upper cable, which runs between wings, is accessed through a slot in the
underside of the wing center section above the cockpit. Corky installed a
removable metal (aluminum sheet) panel covering this slot. Up in the slot a
turnbuckle joins the cable and also allows adjusting the tension in the
connecting cable, and of course unscrewing the turnbuckle allows the cable
to disconnect.
I should take a picture, since it's far simpler to see than to explain, but
the wings are 200 miles from the fuselage right now.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ NOW] - Addressing Upgrade At Matronics TONIGHT! |
Dear Listers,
Service Provider to upgrade to a larger IP subnet. I will be
re-addressing all of the machines on the network including the
Matronics Web Server and Matronics Email Server at that time. Name
Service will be updated at that time as well and most things should
work again pretty quick. There may be some bounced email for a few hours
or even a day or so as the new name-to-ip-address resolutions propagate
into the depths of the Internet.
If you have problems posting a message to one of the Lists or get a
bounced message back, please wait a couple of hours and try sending it
again. Generally, access to the web site should work within 1-hour of
Hopefully the transition will go smoothly and you'll hardly even
notice! :-)
Thanks for your patience!
Matt Dralle
List Administrator
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Horizontal and Vertical stab fittings |
I know this was asked on this list once before, but I never found any replies.
I am in the process of attaching the fittings on the horizontal and vertical stabilizers.
Specifically the rear stabilizer fittings that attach the vertical
stab to the horizontal stab and to the rear of the fuselage. My question is
if I drill all of the holes and put the fittings in place before covering, won't
all of the holes drilled through the wood be off by the thickness of the fabric
if the fittings are on the outside of the fabric after final assembly? I
realize that Bernard originally had these fittings under the covering fabric where
this would be a non-issue, but if the fittings are on the outside what do
you do to insure proper alignment?
Also how about the lower tail brace wire fitting. How has everyone mounted this
fitting? Above or below the fabric?
Richard Schreiber
lmforge(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.net" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Missing dwgs - found!! - other news. |
Thanks to all for the offers on copying / emailing dwgs! This list is great..
I was somewhat embarrassed to ask (as if the piet dwgs were priceless works of
art not to be misplaced). My wife had a revelation and looked in a box, and
there they were - happy to be found.
In other news, it seems I've gotten the bug again.. I'm planning to sell my flying
club share (anyone interested) for $3500 or so and then to invest that in
the Piet. Just not flying enough lately to make the club worth it, besides,
I need to find a taildragger and get some lessons. I'd like to switch to taildraggers
altogether. Anyone around KMIC who might know of a good deal on taildragger
time / instruction?? Anyone interested in my Yankee flying club membership?
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darrel E. Jones" <wd6bor(at)vom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: quiet on the list/insurance |
Oscar,
Don't waste your money on the type club. I was a member of the
International Pietenpol Association until AAA took it over, and then saw
no more newsletters for my multiple year membership. After numerous
inquiries, Robert Taylor sent a "double" newsletter out and told
everyone that their membership had been completed. It wasn't until the
Buckeye Pietenpol Association, and then the Brodhead groups came along
that we started getting regular news and information on the Pietenpol
and owners. I had also joined the AAA to get the "great deal" from
Butler and Brown, and also didn't receive the regular newsletters for
that organization. After I let my AAA membership expire, Butler and
Brown contacted me (I suspect Taylor ratted me out) and told me they
were cancelling my policy. I found insurance through an independent
agent who wrote my policy with the same underwriter for the same cost.
I am now insured through the EAA Vintage Divison group policy with AUA,
(800-727-3823). My recommendation would be to join EAA and the Vintage
Division, even though you will pay more for the membership, but your
money won't be going to support Taylor and his kids, and you will be
sure to get a couple of great magazines, EVERY MONTH, no excuses and no
lies.
My two cents (from a happy EAA/VAA'er)
Darrel Jones
Pfiefer Sport N154JP
Sonoma, CA
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
> Too quiet on this list, so I'll throw out a question and a comment.
>
> First the comment. My repaired/overhauled carb (from the nose-over
> incident) is on its way back to me from the rebuild shop in Corsicana
> as we speak. With the carb in hand, I should be able to put in some
> fuel and fire the engine to see if we can work on the carb heat
> situation. Airframe and landing gear repairs are still underway.
>
> Now the question. Sometime back, a kind soul posted information about
> Butler-Brown insurance being very reasonable. My insurance will be
> coming up for renewal this year and I was going to apply to
> Butler-Brown for a quote but they require that you be a member of
> Antique Aircraft Association. Not a big deal; $36 annual membership,
> which I should be able to afford if their premiums are better than
> what I'm paying now. My question is, AAA has "type clubs", one of
> which is a Pietenpol association, for additional annual membership
> fees. Anyone have any comments as to the value of belonging to AAA
> and/or its Pietenpol type club?
>
> Happy Friday-!
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal and Vertical stab fittings |
Richard
I asked the same question a couple months ago and didn't get an answer
so I just put a single thin washer between each fitting and the fin
when I measured to drill the hole in the horizontal stab. Won't know
if it was necessary until after I cover it.
I am mounting all my tail fittings on top of the fabric including the
bottom tail wire fitting. Don't know if its the best way, just have
seen a lot of Piets done that way.
Rick H
wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I know this was asked on this list once before, but I never found any
> replies. I am in the process of attaching the fittings on the horizontal and
> vertical stabilizers. Specifically the rear stabilizer fittings that attach
> the vertical stab to the horizontal stab and to the rear of the fuselage.
> My question is if I drill all of the holes and put the fittings in place
> before covering, won't all of the holes drilled through the wood be off by
> the thickness of the fabric if the fittings are on the outside of the fabric
> after final assembly? I realize that Bernard originally had these fittings
> under the covering fabric where this would be a non-issue, but if the
> fittings are on the outside what do you do to insure proper alignment?
>
> Also how about the lower tail brace wire fitting. How has everyone mounted
> this fitting? Above or below the fabric?
>
>
> Richard Schreiber
> lmforge(at)earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Malley" <jgmalley(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal and Vertical stab fittings |
Due to the overlap of fabric along the edges and to the fabric tape which
you will be placing over that overlap, the total thickness of the multiple
layers of fabric is surprising. Fortunately, the only critical implication
is the spacing of the bottom rudder hinge. The fin can be raised nearly 1/4
inch by the fabric between it and the stab and the stab and the fuselage.
While one washer as a spacer is a good start, you might want to double that
and/or make your rudder hinges adjustable.
Jim Malley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal and Vertical stab fittings
>
> Richard
>
> I asked the same question a couple months ago and didn't get an answer
> so I just put a single thin washer between each fitting and the fin
> when I measured to drill the hole in the horizontal stab. Won't know
> if it was necessary until after I cover it.
>
> I am mounting all my tail fittings on top of the fabric including the
> bottom tail wire fitting. Don't know if its the best way, just have
> seen a lot of Piets done that way.
>
> Rick H
>
>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I know this was asked on this list once before, but I never found any
> > replies. I am in the process of attaching the fittings on the horizontal
and
> > vertical stabilizers. Specifically the rear stabilizer fittings that
attach
> > the vertical stab to the horizontal stab and to the rear of the
fuselage.
> > My question is if I drill all of the holes and put the fittings in place
> > before covering, won't all of the holes drilled through the wood be off
by
> > the thickness of the fabric if the fittings are on the outside of the
fabric
> > after final assembly? I realize that Bernard originally had these
fittings
> > under the covering fabric where this would be a non-issue, but if the
> > fittings are on the outside what do you do to insure proper alignment?
> >
> > Also how about the lower tail brace wire fitting. How has everyone
mounted
> > this fitting? Above or below the fabric?
> >
> >
> > Richard Schreiber
> > lmforge(at)earthlink.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Missing dwgs - found!! - other news. |
| From: | horzpool(at)goldengate.net |
Tom
Try Dave at Osceola Aviation for the taildragger time. He has a Champ
with a C-85. It's pretty close to how the Piet will feel, except for the
wind on your face.
Dick
>
>
>
> Thanks to all for the offers on copying / emailing dwgs! This list is
> great.. I was somewhat embarrassed to ask (as if the piet dwgs were
> priceless works of art not to be misplaced). My wife had a revelation and
> looked in a box, and there they were - happy to be found.
>
> In other news, it seems I've gotten the bug again.. I'm planning to sell
> my flying club share (anyone interested) for $3500 or so and then to
> invest that in the Piet. Just not flying enough lately to make the club
> worth it, besides, I need to find a taildragger and get some lessons. I'd
> like to switch to taildraggers altogether. Anyone around KMIC who might
> know of a good deal on taildragger time / instruction?? Anyone interested
> in my Yankee flying club membership?
>
> Tom B.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Hodgson <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
| Subject: | good place to get engine hoist? |
Curious if anyone has experience with Northern Tool and Equipment--got
their catalog in the general junk mail a couple of days ago, but saw that
they have a small engine hoist for $129. It's cheaper and smaller than even
Harbor Freight's, but looks like it's probably enough for handling my
Corvair block which I'd like to start working on. Worth the risk?
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jdavis2a(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: good place to get engine hoist? |
Be sure to check their shipping charges. Sometimes they are a little high.
Otherwise I have had good luck with their products JIM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 01/07/05 |
In a message dated 1/7/05 11:08:29 PM, pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com
writes:
<< From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: aileron control cables
>>
Thanks, Oscar. I am just a poor retired space computer engineer, and would
truly never think of something easy! But I'll do it like you say. It would be
nice to see a picture!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Deke Slayton Museum Pietenpol |
According to the La Crosse Tribune newspaper (La Crosse, Wis.) the other day
a Pietenpol Air Camper has been donated to the Deke Slayton Museum in Sparta,
Wis. Sparta is 25 miles east of La Crosse on I-90. The Piet has been suspended
from the ceiling of the museum. I don't know who donated the Piet but will
check it out, get some pics and report later.
For the younger Piet builders, Deke Slayton was one of the original Mercury
program astronauts but did not fly due to a suspected heart murmur -- he did,
however, fly later on one of the Apollo/Skylab/Soyuz (I believe that's correct)
missions. Deke was originally from Sparta and flew P-51s in WW2. He died a
few years ago after heading up a private space launch venture that was similar
in vision to Burt Rutan's enterprise.
FWIW -- I flipped my Piet fuselage right side up on the bench this past week.
I am now in the process of adding the top cross braces and will add
instrument panels, controls, seats and rear fairing in the coming weeks...
BTW, has anyone considered using the solid aluminum disc wheels as installed
on the Harley Davidson "Fat Boy" motorcycles in recent years. There are many
of these wheels currently for sale on e-Bay at reasonable prices. They look
1920s period, at least they do to me (especially if they were painted to match
the airplane). I don't know what the big Harleys weigh, but I suspect these=20are
much stronger than a spoked motorcycle wheel =E2=80=94 and I would think also able
to
withstand a considerable side load. As they are aluminum, they must also be
relatively light. I'd be interested in others' thoughts on this wheel
possibility, especially if anyone has used them or seen them used.
Regards to all,
Fred B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Blackwell <aerialphotos(at)dp.net> |
| Subject: | Sat in my first Peit today |
Well some things are just never what they seem. Im about 6ft or so and
about 220, and shoe horned myself into a Peit this afternoon. I was
simply too big to fit in the airplane. Knees hit the panel. Couldn't
reach the heel brakes. Head was higher that it probably really needed
to be for such an airplane and reaching the throttle required the same
technique as driving with a window open and an arm hanging out the
window in the breeze.
Now building one of the stock ones is out of the question, but did
anyone ever come up with plans based on the orginal that would be for a
guy the size of Bernie?
Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sat in my first Peit today |
Contact me direct if you really want some suggested changes for size. Don't
want the fury of the purists on my neck
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lynn Knoll" <dknoll(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: good place to get engine hoist? |
Mark,
From my experience the most useful shop tool for tear down is a engine stand
that enables the engine to be rotated. I have a Harbor Freight hoist also
but it mostly takes up space but is a very handy and safe way to mount and
demount the engine.I consider the Harbor Freight hoist a quality product.
Lynn Knoll
Wichita - Piet/Vair
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hodgson" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: good place to get engine hoist?
>
> Curious if anyone has experience with Northern Tool and Equipment--got
> their catalog in the general junk mail a couple of days ago, but saw that
> they have a small engine hoist for $129. It's cheaper and smaller than
> even
> Harbor Freight's, but looks like it's probably enough for handling my
> Corvair block which I'd like to start working on. Worth the risk?
>
> Mark Hodgson
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael McCarty" <mmccarty(at)zianet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: good place to get engine hoist? |
Almost any cheap hoist would handle a corvair engine. Most of them are made with
long
arms and legs for hoisting engines out of an auto engine bay and take quite a bit
of room to store.
If you only need something to lift a corvair engine onto a Piet, you could probably
weld up
something much more compact or just use a block and tackle from the rafters. At
200 lbs even
a 2x4 truss would hold it.
-Mike McCarty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hodgson" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: good place to get engine hoist?
>
> Curious if anyone has experience with Northern Tool and Equipment--got
> their catalog in the general junk mail a couple of days ago, but saw that
> they have a small engine hoist for $129. It's cheaper and smaller than even
> Harbor Freight's, but looks like it's probably enough for handling my
> Corvair block which I'd like to start working on. Worth the risk?
>
> Mark Hodgson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Piet Builders,
I have a pair of bunji struts, that I replaced with spring struts. They are
plans built, except I had to put a slight bend in them, where they criss
cross, to eliminate any contact, because the lugs were not offset enough. They
have the plans type plugs to retain the bunji's. Also a few extra bunji chords.
If anyone needs 'em, they are yours for FREE - you pay shipping. e-mail
me direct.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Wichita, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sat in my first Peit today |
Hi Mark,
Many have widend the fuselage. I too had the same
question. I widend the fuselage, raised the seats and
instrument palnels. I will send pics off line if you
want to see them.
Doc
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bunji Struts |
I would be very interested in your bunji struts. I live in Missouri so just
let me know how and were you would like the check to be sent. I do thank you
for your time. Chet Hartley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: good place to get engine hoist? |
I installed a Lycoming 0-320 engine in my Cherokee using my tractor and a
boom on a three point hitch. The boom was $89 at Tractor Supply. If you have a
friend with a tractor having a 3 point hitch, this might work for you. It was a
very easy installation and the conical engine mount on the Cherokee is
probably harder to stab than plugging a Continental A-65 onto a Piet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bunji Struts |
I'm going to be in Chuck's neck of the woods late this month. If someone
along my route home (Wichita and or Kansas City, MO) to Central Texas) makes an
agreement with Chuck for the gear legs, I can drop them off if not too far off
my route home. I'll be heading back to the Dallas area, and then on to 5TA6,
San Antonio Sectional. I'll be on the road back to Texas probably Jan. 31 or Feb
1.
Sterling Brooks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: good place to get engine hoist? |
I used a "come-along" suspended from the header beam above my hangar door. Just
suspended the engine and rolled the airframe under neath it.
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: good place to get engine hoist?
I installed a Lycoming 0-320 engine in my Cherokee using my tractor and a boom
on a three point hitch. The boom was $89 at Tractor Supply. If you have a friend
with a tractor having a 3 point hitch, this might work for you. It was a
very easy installation and the conical engine mount on the Cherokee is probably
harder to stab than plugging a Continental A-65 onto a Piet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: good place to get engine hoist? |
You don't need a hoist at all. Just set the engine on a table and roll the fuselage
up to it. prop up the tail to the right height, block the wheels, and shim
up the engine till it lines up. use a pry bar to tilt the engine a little.
Del
Michael McCarty wrote:
Almost any cheap hoist would handle a corvair engine. Most of them are made with
long
arms and legs for hoisting engines out of an auto engine bay and take quite a bit
of room to store.
If you only need something to lift a corvair engine onto a Piet, you could probably
weld up
something much more compact or just use a block and tackle from the rafters. At
200 lbs even
a 2x4 truss would hold it.
-Mike McCarty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hodgson"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: good place to get engine hoist?
>
> Curious if anyone has experience with Northern Tool and Equipment--got
> their catalog in the general junk mail a couple of days ago, but saw that
> they have a small engine hoist for $129. It's cheaper and smaller than even
> Harbor Freight's, but looks like it's probably enough for handling my
> Corvair block which I'd like to start working on. Worth the risk?
>
> Mark Hodgson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bunji Struts |
Chet,
You were the first one to reply, so I guess you get the bunji struts.
There is one other guy down in central Oklahoma that said he would like to have
'em, so if you think you won't use them, I hope you can send them on to
someone else who would use them. I don't know what the shipping would be. I will
pack them up this week, and send them off to you, then let you know what the
shipping was. What is your address to send them to ??
Here is a picture of them, on the plane. I could never keep them tight
enough, so I changed them out for the spring struts. I will also send out a
copy of the details of how to tie the loops on the ends of the bunji chords.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for Dave Rowe |
<007e01c4f3b8$aab0c4e0$4e705118@dawsonaviation>
Well, I've just returned from Victoria with no joy
on Dave. His friend Paul hasn't heard from him in
some time either. After returning from the Gulf the
last time he got out of his house and bought a $200,000
boat. He rented a corner of a hanger to store the Piet
and Santa Anna. Paul thinks the boat purchase has
stretched things for Dave as he wasn't his usual upbeat
self the last time they met. He's going to see what more
he can do and call me if successful.
Clif
>
> I'm going to the Island ( Van Isle ) this weekend so I
> can get Dave's number in the local book and call him.
> I can also call his friend Paul if necessary.
> Clif
>
>
> >
> > Thanks Jim,
> >
> > But I was in contact with Dave back in August, and he indicated that his
> > e-mail address would be discontinued at the end of the August, and would
> be
> > in touch. But no word yet.
> >
> > Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | aileron control cables |
Well, I don't get attachments since I'm on the list digest, but rather than
wait for photoshare, I've attached some photos and hope they shows what I'm
talking about. P1080012 shows the removable access panel on the underside
of my wing center section that allows disconnecting the aileron control
cable that runs between the two wings. Removing this panel opens up a
"slot" in the aft underside of the center section. The turnbuckle is up
inside this slot.
The other cables are accessed via regular round access covers in the wing
panels, where disconnect links are installed in the cables. You can see
those in the second picture (PB130011), along with the dried blood on the
underside of the center section "flop". The blood is from pilot Charlie's
forehead, having snapped off the ignition key with his forehead when the
plane stopped suddenly and went over on its back. A little tip for when
you're laying out your instrument panel!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: good place to get engine hoist? |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
Per usual with this list, thanks to all for the good comments!
Turns out that Bill Rewey, a Brodhead regular and the author of a number
of useful Piet documents, actually has plans for an adequate wooden
engine hoist that should cost a whole lot less and allow me to generate
a little more sawdust in my basement as well. A list member clued me in
to this; then I took a second look at the packet of materials I had
actually gotten from Bill at Brodhead last summer, and voila--something
I had overlooked completely last July! Got to organize my Piet
literature better (maybe after I've built the beast). Or as they say in
systems work, "Start coding; we'll get you the specs as soon as we know
what they are..." Or as I might say: "Duhhhh..."
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bunji Struts |
Chuck:
Thank you so much this will be a great help on my piet as of right now all I
have is the fusealodge and tail group.
Question: We will be traveling back from a ski trip in Colorado this next
week, the15th through the 22nd. I would like to stop and pick up the struts
on Sunday the 23rd. If this would be possible. If not.
My adddress is:
Chet Hartley
200 Franklin St.
Holts Summit, MO 65043-3504
Home Phone is 573-896-5405
Cell phone is 573-645-0534
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
<41E0A410.4000401(at)dp.net>
| Subject: | Re: Sat in my first Peit today |
| From: | horzpool(at)goldengate.net |
Mark
I built a fuselage at Sun n Fun acouple of years ago that might suit you.
Take the basic long fuse plan and trty substituting the measurements for
the forward bridge decks to the short fuselage plan. I also reclined my
rear seat by 1" for comfort. You shold be able to get an additional 8-9"
in this process. It made all the diffrence to me. 5'11" & 200 lb.
Dick N.
>
> Well some things are just never what they seem. Im about 6ft or so and
> about 220, and shoe horned myself into a Peit this afternoon. I was
> simply too big to fit in the airplane. Knees hit the panel. Couldn't
> reach the heel brakes. Head was higher that it probably really needed
> to be for such an airplane and reaching the throttle required the same
> technique as driving with a window open and an arm hanging out the
> window in the breeze.
>
> Now building one of the stock ones is out of the question, but did
> anyone ever come up with plans based on the orginal that would be for a
> guy the size of Bernie?
>
> Mark
>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Deke Slayton Museum Pietenpol |
| From: | horzpool(at)goldengate.net |
Fred
If you use those Harley wheels be sure to start with the newer models with
the sealed bearings. I am out out of town now but check the archives on
this under "Harley wheels" I have posted some pics and discussed this in
the past. Or if you want further info e-mail me direct, I have lots on
Harley parts.
Dick N.
> According to the La Crosse Tribune newspaper (La Crosse, Wis.) the other
> day
> a Pietenpol Air Camper has been donated to the Deke Slayton Museum in
> Sparta,
> Wis. Sparta is 25 miles east of La Crosse on I-90. The Piet has been
> suspended
> from the ceiling of the museum. I don't know who donated the Piet but will
> check it out, get some pics and report later.
>
> For the younger Piet builders, Deke Slayton was one of the original
> Mercury
> program astronauts but did not fly due to a suspected heart murmur -- he
> did,
> however, fly later on one of the Apollo/Skylab/Soyuz (I believe that's
> correct)
> missions. Deke was originally from Sparta and flew P-51s in WW2. He died a
> few years ago after heading up a private space launch venture that was
> similar
> in vision to Burt Rutan's enterprise.
>
> FWIW -- I flipped my Piet fuselage right side up on the bench this past
> week.
> I am now in the process of adding the top cross braces and will add
> instrument panels, controls, seats and rear fairing in the coming weeks...
>
> BTW, has anyone considered using the solid aluminum disc wheels as
> installed
> on the Harley Davidson "Fat Boy" motorcycles in recent years. There are
> many
> of these wheels currently for sale on e-Bay at reasonable prices. They
> look
> 1920s period, at least they do to me (especially if they were painted to
> match
> the airplane). I don't know what the big Harleys weigh, but I suspect
> these are
> much stronger than a spoked motorcycle wheel and I would think also
> able to
> withstand a considerable side load. As they are aluminum, they must also
> be
> relatively light. I'd be interested in others' thoughts on this wheel
> possibility, especially if anyone has used them or seen them used.
>
> Regards to all,
> Fred B.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal and Vertical stab fittings |
<000501c4f5b0$cc312ac0$0202a8c0@UPSTAIRS>
How about finishing and mounting everything except the rudder
Then you can mount the bottom hinge, rudder side, to fit the
fuselage side.
Clif
>
> Due to the overlap of fabric along the edges and to the fabric tape which
> you will be placing over that overlap, the total thickness of the multiple
> layers of fabric is surprising. Fortunately, the only critical implication
> is the spacing of the bottom rudder hinge. The fin can be raised nearly
1/4
> inch by the fabric between it and the stab and the stab and the fuselage.
> While one washer as a spacer is a good start, you might want to double
that
> and/or make your rudder hinges adjustable.
> Jim Malley
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Blackwell <aerialphotos(at)dp.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sat in my first Peit today |
<2586.65.10.64.45.1105408777.squirrel(at)webmail.iphouse.com>
Thanks for all those that have responded. I am sure you could modify
the plans, but that really was not what I was looking for. Though it
might work, when you modify plans you open up a whole can of worms and
the proven nature of the design becomes something that is totally
untested. I do not have the engineering expertise to be able to do
that, and was hoping someone had.
I would need more than just more cockpit room. The wing would need to
be raised for me to see and getting in the front would be a physical
impossiblity without some changes. I hoped someone had essentially a
different set of plans that had been reviewed and used for some time in
a number of airplanes.
Though it looks like fun a Piet may not be the right airplane for me.
horzpool(at)goldengate.net wrote:
>
>Mark
>I built a fuselage at Sun n Fun acouple of years ago that might suit you.
>Take the basic long fuse plan and trty substituting the measurements for
>the forward bridge decks to the short fuselage plan. I also reclined my
>rear seat by 1" for comfort. You shold be able to get an additional 8-9"
>in this process. It made all the diffrence to me. 5'11" & 200 lb.
>Dick N.
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Seibert" <dsseibert(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank & parts |
Well, I need to clean the hangar out and I have a pile of Piet parts that needs
to move.
I have an aluminum center section gas tank (12.5 gal.), a 1 gallon header tank
& shutoff valve, control stick assembly, and ALL the fabricated hardware for a
piet.
The hardware is all fabricated out of 4130 and has about 45 hours on it. The fuel
tank has a built in sight gage and is built like an RV gas tank with rivets
& pro-seal joints. The tank was built for a piet with a plans built 1 piece wing
and I do not know if it will fit in the center section of a 3 piece wing.
It all works just fine. It was taken off of my wind damaged (and ground looped)
piet.
I figure that $200 is a fair price for the many hours of labor that went into the
stuff. (That probably amounts to about 50 cent an hour :-)
The only problem is that the buyer has to pick it all up here near Austin, TX.
The fuel tank has residual fuel in it making shipping out of the question.
If anybody is interested, please contact me off list.
Bob Seibert
dsseibert(at)earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sat in my first Peit today |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
Mark,
Don't give up on the Pietenpol just yet. I'm 6' 2-1/2" and over 200
lbs. I built the long fuselage version, which gives more legroom in
both cockpits. I made the fuselage 1" wider, which helps a lot (I've
flown standard width Piets and that extra inch really helps), and I
raised the wing 2-3/4" higher than the plans indicate. The impact to
the structure is minimal - just make the centersection 1" wider so the
cabane struts will line up, and make the cabane struts enough longer to
raise the centersection to where you want it. I also raised my
turtledeck a couple of inches so you feel like you are riding in, rather
than on, the airplane.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
...I would need more than just more cockpit room. The wing would need
to
be raised for me to see and getting in the front would be a physical
impossiblity without some changes. I hoped someone had essentially a
different set of plans that had been reviewed and used for some time in
a number of airplanes.
Though it looks like fun a Piet may not be the right airplane for me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sat in my first Peit today |
Order the long fuselage plans and first build a mock cockpit out of
scrap wood (as recommended by Bengelis). You can lean back the seat
back, build the seat lower in the fuselage, some even build the
fuselage a couple inches taller. People widen fuselages up to 4 inches
and raise the turtle decks also. Think of the fuselage a big slab of
clay you can mold to you needs (within limits).
I am building to the long fuselage plans, added 6" to the length in
front (as recommended by Bernie himself), lowered and leaned the rear
seat back a bit, raised the rear turtle deck 3" and the front 1".
Widened fuselage to 26" outside dimensions firewall to rear seat back.
Of course it hasn't flown yet so take this info for what little it is
worth.
Rick Holland
>
> Well some things are just never what they seem. Im about 6ft or so and
> about 220, and shoe horned myself into a Peit this afternoon. I was
> simply too big to fit in the airplane. Knees hit the panel. Couldn't
> reach the heel brakes. Head was higher that it probably really needed
> to be for such an airplane and reaching the throttle required the same
> technique as driving with a window open and an arm hanging out the
> window in the breeze.
>
> Now building one of the stock ones is out of the question, but did
> anyone ever come up with plans based on the orginal that would be for a
> guy the size of Bernie?
>
> Mark
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal and Vertical stab fittings |
Dang, didn't think about spacing for the bottom rudder hinge. Wish you
were around Jim when I asked this question a couple months ago. My
hinge position is adjustable but the holes I drilled for it in the
fuselage are not. Will probably have to fill and redrill the holes
after covering.
Rick H
>
> Due to the overlap of fabric along the edges and to the fabric tape which
> you will be placing over that overlap, the total thickness of the multiple
> layers of fabric is surprising. Fortunately, the only critical implication
> is the spacing of the bottom rudder hinge. The fin can be raised nearly 1/4
> inch by the fabric between it and the stab and the stab and the fuselage.
> While one washer as a spacer is a good start, you might want to double that
> and/or make your rudder hinges adjustable.
> Jim Malley
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 12:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal and Vertical stab fittings
>
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > I asked the same question a couple months ago and didn't get an answer
> > so I just put a single thin washer between each fitting and the fin
> > when I measured to drill the hole in the horizontal stab. Won't know
> > if it was necessary until after I cover it.
> >
> > I am mounting all my tail fittings on top of the fabric including the
> > bottom tail wire fitting. Don't know if its the best way, just have
> > seen a lot of Piets done that way.
> >
> > Rick H
> >
> >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I know this was asked on this list once before, but I never found any
> > > replies. I am in the process of attaching the fittings on the horizontal
> and
> > > vertical stabilizers. Specifically the rear stabilizer fittings that
> attach
> > > the vertical stab to the horizontal stab and to the rear of the
> fuselage.
> > > My question is if I drill all of the holes and put the fittings in place
> > > before covering, won't all of the holes drilled through the wood be off
> by
> > > the thickness of the fabric if the fittings are on the outside of the
> fabric
> > > after final assembly? I realize that Bernard originally had these
> fittings
> > > under the covering fabric where this would be a non-issue, but if the
> > > fittings are on the outside what do you do to insure proper alignment?
> > >
> > > Also how about the lower tail brace wire fitting. How has everyone
> mounted
> > > this fitting? Above or below the fabric?
> > >
> > >
> > > Richard Schreiber
> > > lmforge(at)earthlink.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Rick Holland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Horizontal and Vertical stab fittings |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
The fabric overlap on the fuselage should not be any more than on the
vertical fin, so I don't understand why you would need to adjust for
that. You just need to make sure all your hinges have a "fabric
allowance" built into them
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
Dang, didn't think about spacing for the bottom rudder hinge. Wish you
were around Jim when I asked this question a couple months ago. My
hinge position is adjustable but the holes I drilled for it in the
fuselage are not. Will probably have to fill and redrill the holes
after covering.
Rick H
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | rear cockpit solo |
Howdy, folks;
Working through the weight & balance on 41CC and looking at extreme forward
and rearward C of G conditions in the spreadsheet (thanks, Bert and Nancy
Conoly!), I've noticed a couple of things.
1. There doesn't appear to be any loading that will bring the plane to max
gross without shifting out of the aft C of G allowable range. This is good
insofar as it will be nearly impossible to overload the airplane, but does
indicate some care is required to keep the aft C of G in range. With 170
lb. pilot and 210 lb. passenger, minimum fuel (2 gal.), and min. oil, it's
at maximum aft limit but still 183 lbs. under gross. I've shifted loads
around (in the spreadsheet) and this seems to be worst aft C of G case that
will still allow me to approach max. gross. Obviously, I can go up on the
passenger weight, but as an example- at my present weight of 150 lbs., the
spreadsheet says I can fit a 413 lb. passenger in the airplane and be at
gross and within aft C of G limit. Problem is, you can't physically
shoehorn a 413 lb. person into the passenger cockpit.
2. Again checking aft C of G, at a "running on fumes" condition of minimum
fuel and oil, the aft C of G is exceeded with a pilot any heavier than 175
lbs. unless there is a passenger aboard. This presents some operating
limitations that have to be respected as well, such as at the end of a long
3. Checking maximum forward limit, with a full tank of fuel (16 gal.) and
full oil, I need a minimum of a 107 lb. pilot to bring the C of G back to
the forward limit. This would mean that the aircraft should be placarded
"rear seat solo only" and should also have some sort of minimum pilot weight
allowed when flying solo.
Now, it would hardly make sense to try to solo the plane from the front hole
anyway, since there are no instruments and no carb heat control up there.
But just the same-! And as far as a minimum pilot weight, it is conceivable
that a youngster, or a slightly built man or woman, might be too light to
operate this aircraft within its forward C of G limit with full fuel. This
would mean possibly running out of elevator in the flare or rotation... and
a hard landing or an extended takeoff run.
Anybody come up with similar loading cases in their W&B's? Mind you, the
airplane still needs an official re-W&B after the rebuild is complete, but
I'm looking at what-ifs. I guess if I forget all the mother hen stuff, this
airplane can really handle a wide range of loading conditions and can safely
carry a pilot and passenger, but there are some conditions to watch for.
And I think I may just add a "rear seat solo only" placard to that lonely,
bare front panel. Does anyone else have theirs placarded that way (not you
Sky Scout guys)?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rear cockpit solo |
Oscar,
What is the gross weight ?
B.H.P. listed it at 1050 lbs.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rear cockpit solo |
Oscar. My DAR required a "solo rear seat only" placard. He suggested
putting it on the REAR panel. Now, just think about that... If you are
soloing the plane from the back then do you need to be warned not to solo
from the front?
no
If some unknowing soul jumps in the FRONT seat to solo it, well, he's not
going to see the placard and .. well you know the rest.
So after I explained it, my DAR agreed it should be placarded in the front
pit.
So I think you're correct - it needs to be placarded and should be in the
front pit
Bert.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rear cockpit solo
>
> Howdy, folks;
>
> Working through the weight & balance on 41CC and looking at extreme
forward
> and rearward C of G conditions in the spreadsheet (thanks, Bert and Nancy
> Conoly!), I've noticed a couple of things.
>
> 1. There doesn't appear to be any loading that will bring the plane to max
> gross without shifting out of the aft C of G allowable range. This is
good
> insofar as it will be nearly impossible to overload the airplane, but does
> indicate some care is required to keep the aft C of G in range. With 170
> lb. pilot and 210 lb. passenger, minimum fuel (2 gal.), and min. oil, it's
> at maximum aft limit but still 183 lbs. under gross. I've shifted loads
> around (in the spreadsheet) and this seems to be worst aft C of G case
that
> will still allow me to approach max. gross. Obviously, I can go up on the
> passenger weight, but as an example- at my present weight of 150 lbs., the
> spreadsheet says I can fit a 413 lb. passenger in the airplane and be at
> gross and within aft C of G limit. Problem is, you can't physically
> shoehorn a 413 lb. person into the passenger cockpit.
>
> 2. Again checking aft C of G, at a "running on fumes" condition of minimum
> fuel and oil, the aft C of G is exceeded with a pilot any heavier than 175
> lbs. unless there is a passenger aboard. This presents some operating
> limitations that have to be respected as well, such as at the end of a
long
> X-C flight.
>
> 3. Checking maximum forward limit, with a full tank of fuel (16 gal.) and
> full oil, I need a minimum of a 107 lb. pilot to bring the C of G back to
> the forward limit. This would mean that the aircraft should be placarded
> "rear seat solo only" and should also have some sort of minimum pilot
weight
> allowed when flying solo.
>
> Now, it would hardly make sense to try to solo the plane from the front
hole
> anyway, since there are no instruments and no carb heat control up there.
> But just the same-! And as far as a minimum pilot weight, it is
conceivable
> that a youngster, or a slightly built man or woman, might be too light to
> operate this aircraft within its forward C of G limit with full fuel.
This
> would mean possibly running out of elevator in the flare or rotation...
and
> a hard landing or an extended takeoff run.
>
> Anybody come up with similar loading cases in their W&B's? Mind you, the
> airplane still needs an official re-W&B after the rebuild is complete, but
> I'm looking at what-ifs. I guess if I forget all the mother hen stuff,
this
> airplane can really handle a wide range of loading conditions and can
safely
> carry a pilot and passenger, but there are some conditions to watch for.
> And I think I may just add a "rear seat solo only" placard to that lonely,
> bare front panel. Does anyone else have theirs placarded that way (not
you
> Sky Scout guys)?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank & parts |
Bob, does this mean your yellow piet is no longer flying? What happened, I thought
you sold it?
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Seibert
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 2:37 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank & parts
Well, I need to clean the hangar out and I have a pile of Piet parts that needs
to move.
I have an aluminum center section gas tank (12.5 gal.), a 1 gallon header tank
& shutoff valve, control stick assembly, and ALL the fabricated hardware for
a piet.
The hardware is all fabricated out of 4130 and has about 45 hours on it. The
fuel tank has a built in sight gage and is built like an RV gas tank with rivets
& pro-seal joints. The tank was built for a piet with a plans built 1 piece
wing and I do not know if it will fit in the center section of a 3 piece wing.
It all works just fine. It was taken off of my wind damaged (and ground looped)
piet.
I figure that $200 is a fair price for the many hours of labor that went into
the stuff. (That probably amounts to about 50 cent an hour :-)
The only problem is that the buyer has to pick it all up here near Austin, TX.
The fuel tank has residual fuel in it making shipping out of the question.
If anybody is interested, please contact me off list.
Bob Seibert
dsseibert(at)earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | rear cockpit solo |
Chuck "Baby Oil" G. asked-
>What is the gross weight ?
>B.H.P. listed it at 1050 lbs.
Corky showed aircraft gross weight as 1,185 lbs. on the dataplate in the
cockpit and all weight & balance calcs were based on that number.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal and Vertical stab fittings |
Because after covering the top and bottom of the horizontal stab, top
of the fuselage under the stab, and the bottom of the fin the fin
itself which has the top two rudder hinges in it is going to be
sitting higher than it was when everything was bare wood. (By the
thickness of four layers of fabric and fabric tape). So your bottom
rudder hinge holes don't line up any more (unless you wait until after
covering to drill them).
wrote:
>
> The fabric overlap on the fuselage should not be any more than on the
> vertical fin, so I don't understand why you would need to adjust for
> that. You just need to make sure all your hinges have a "fabric
> allowance" built into them
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Dang, didn't think about spacing for the bottom rudder hinge. Wish you
> were around Jim when I asked this question a couple months ago. My
> hinge position is adjustable but the holes I drilled for it in the
> fuselage are not. Will probably have to fill and redrill the holes
> after covering.
>
> Rick H
>
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sat in my first Peit today |
Here we go again. I was in the same place about a year ago that you
are Mark. I spent days going through the archieves and went to
Broadhead last year and found two interesting things. First you
continuously heard messages advicating 'build it to the plans, don't
change a thing'. Then when you closely examine a lot of Piets you find
that no two are built the same, in building materials or
specifications or engines.
You will find that a good percentage of builders make the same changes
to their Piets like higher turtle decks, taller cabanes, wider/longer
fuselage, etc. Plus even though the plans show no brakes or seat belts
most people figure out a way to add those. So I suggested that a
'Twenty first century Piet' set of plans be created containing most of
these changes you see people making. And if that wasn't bad enough I
had the ordasity to suggest that these new plans be done in Auto-Cad
or Turbo-Cad showing all dimensions, multiple perspective views, maybe
even a parts list, etc.
Well all hell broke loose, 'build it to the plans!', 'Bernie didn't
have auto-cad, he didn't even have computers!', 'if God intended man
to fly airplanes designed on a computer he would have given Bernie the
insight to invent the computer before he invented the Piet' (actually,
I make up that last snide comment).
In closing Mark the only advice I can offer is 'Build It To The Plans'
and don't change a thing like all the builders on this newsgroup.
RIck H
Fuselage, ribs, and tails feathers completed 'to the plans'.
>
> Thanks for all those that have responded. I am sure you could modify
> the plans, but that really was not what I was looking for. Though it
> might work, when you modify plans you open up a whole can of worms and
> the proven nature of the design becomes something that is totally
> untested. I do not have the engineering expertise to be able to do
> that, and was hoping someone had.
>
> I would need more than just more cockpit room. The wing would need to
> be raised for me to see and getting in the front would be a physical
> impossiblity without some changes. I hoped someone had essentially a
> different set of plans that had been reviewed and used for some time in
> a number of airplanes.
>
> Though it looks like fun a Piet may not be the right airplane for me.
>
> horzpool(at)goldengate.net wrote:
>
> >
> >Mark
> >I built a fuselage at Sun n Fun acouple of years ago that might suit you.
> >Take the basic long fuse plan and trty substituting the measurements for
> >the forward bridge decks to the short fuselage plan. I also reclined my
> >rear seat by 1" for comfort. You shold be able to get an additional 8-9"
> >in this process. It made all the diffrence to me. 5'11" & 200 lb.
> >Dick N.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sat in my first Peit today |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
Rick is right - there are a lot of "purists" who will advocate building
the plane exactly to the plans. However, I defy anyone to build it
exactly to the plans in every detail becasue the plans themselves have
some flaws (the detail showing the compression struts between the wing
spars comes to mind).
I have investigated a couple of Pietenpols built by BHP himself, and
they are not at all alike. He designed at least three different
fuselages and several different wing configurations. I suspect every
plane he built was different in some respect from the others.
To me, the things that make a plane "A Pietenpol" are the airfoil
section of the wing, the basic layout of the structure, i.e., the
location of the spars and the longerons, the lift struts and the cabane
struts, and the basic planforms of the wings and control surfaces.
There a number of changes that can be made (and some, like Jury Struts
and the diagonal braces from the cabanes to the engine mount that SHOULD
be made) without departing from the basic Pietenpol design.
One of the things that makes this such a great design is the fact that
it can be easily modified to suit a particular builder and still end up
with a safe flying machine with good flying qualities. Just look at the
variety of engines that have been used on Piets - many by BHP himself.
I know of no other design so easily adaptable to different powerplants.
As for making a 21st century plans set, I wouldn't know which
configuration to choose to make "the new standard". Mine is the long
fuselage, widened 1", with a taller turtledeck, a straight axle, wire
wheels, 65 hp Continental, centersection 6" wider than plans to allow
for a larger fuel tank (15 gallons in the centersection), piano hinge
ailerons, trim system, electrical system, radio, intercom, and
transponder with blind encoder, 3 piece windshields, and baggage
compartment in the nose. To me it is ideal. To someone built
differently than me, the extra length and width of the fuselage would be
too much extra weight and cost. To someone who doesn't have to fly in
Class B & Class C airspace, the radio and transponder are superfluous.
Some would object to the extra weight and cost of the wire wheels. I
think they "make" the look of the airplane.
In other words, to each his own. Don't be afraid to modify the design
as you need to fit your personal requirements. As long as it still uses
the Pietenpol airfoil and general configuration, I wouldn't worry about
the "purists".
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
Here we go again. I was in the same place about a year ago that you
are Mark. I spent days going through the archieves and went to
Broadhead last year and found two interesting things. First you
continuously heard messages advicating 'build it to the plans, don't
change a thing'. Then when you closely examine a lot of Piets you find
that no two are built the same, in building materials or
specifications or engines.
You will find that a good percentage of builders make the same changes
to their Piets like higher turtle decks, taller cabanes, wider/longer
fuselage, etc. Plus even though the plans show no brakes or seat belts
most people figure out a way to add those. So I suggested that a
'Twenty first century Piet' set of plans be created containing most of
these changes you see people making. And if that wasn't bad enough I
had the ordasity to suggest that these new plans be done in Auto-Cad
or Turbo-Cad showing all dimensions, multiple perspective views, maybe
even a parts list, etc.
Well all hell broke loose, 'build it to the plans!', 'Bernie didn't
have auto-cad, he didn't even have computers!', 'if God intended man
to fly airplanes designed on a computer he would have given Bernie the
insight to invent the computer before he invented the Piet' (actually,
I make up that last snide comment).
In closing Mark the only advice I can offer is 'Build It To The Plans'
and don't change a thing like all the builders on this newsgroup.
RIck H
Fuselage, ribs, and tails feathers completed 'to the plans'.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edwin Johnson <elj(at)shreve.net> |
| Subject: | rear cockpit solo |
Hello Oscar,
> Working through the weight & balance on 41CC and looking at extreme forward
> and rearward C of G conditions in the spreadsheet (thanks, Bert and Nancy
> 2. Again checking aft C of G, at a "running on fumes" condition of minimum
> fuel and oil, the aft C of G is exceeded with a pilot any heavier than 175
Since I'm the one who test flew N41CC and the succeeding 25 hours, I might
comment on this.
First, the 'tail heavy' aspect is the 'nature of the beast' and it's
notorious aft-CG problem is well documented, so no surprise there.
According to my notes, Corky and I used 1150 as gross weight figures. I
built a special graphic W&B program as well as a separate spread sheet and
did extensive looking at the problem and various situations.
It all summarizes into what you have discovered. In this particular plane,
before any rebuild, any pilot over 92 lbs with full fuel will place the
plane within the forward CG limits. Any less fuel with that pilot will
move the CG more toward the middle of the envelope.
Now in all Piets with a front fuselage tank the problem is at the end of
the trip when fuel level diminishes and CG moves backward. So if you wish
to stay within the aft envelope, you must establish a rule as to how far
down the fuel may be burned for the particular pilot weight. The heavier
the pilot, naturally, the more fuel must remain in order to keep the plane
within CG. Mike Cuy and I corresponded about this and he has spoken to
this fact in this list.
With my weight, feather weight as Corky put it , I had no problem.
But with any pilot over 161 lbs, allowances must be figured. All of the
above is assuming no passenger and I am speaking of N41CC as it is
configured.
Of course, there is nothing new in the email and all of this is well know
and has been discussed. Incidentally, when we went from the heavier metal
prop to the wooden prop (early in the test program) things changed
dramatically since the empty CG shifted aft.
The Piet, like the J3, should always be soloed from the rear. The use of a
placard would probably be up to the builder and/or inspector.
No new territory in this email, just thought I might comment how I
approached the CG issue for flight planning/fuel burn purposes.
...Edwin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Edwin Johnson .. elj(at)shreve.net .. www.shreve.net/~elj ~
~ ~
~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your~
~ eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you~
~ long to return." -- da Vinci ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Enjoy changing your Pietenpol to fit you !!!!! |
m>
Amen, Rick Holland and Jack Phillips----there is nothing wrong with
deviating from the plans.
Nothing at all, provided you just think things thru and figure out what
else will have to change, if anything
of the 'fallout' of those changes. There is nothing sacred about building
to the plans. There are no two
Piets alike and besides there is no such thing as an originally-built
Pietenpol. All 26 of the ones that
BHP built were different so there are 26 original Pietenpol designs out
there--we only see what he put
down on the plans at the time they were drawn up by W. Hoopman is all.
I won't repeat the insightful comments by Jack, but re-read them. He's
right on too.
Mike C.
PS-- in other countries like Great Britain they are not allowed to deviate
from plans and if you do, you must
go thru hell for the PFA to approve it. Be thankful and be creative and
customize !!!!! Don't get crazy, but
have fun.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
241(at)matronics.com>
Edwin-- thru the cob webs of my memory I can't recall where I came up with
the 1150 gross weight either
but it was a Pietenpol source, not heresay.
I can say that I've taken off at 1100 lbs. on about an 80 F day and it
didn't do too terribly bad. Not the greatest
but still climbed out fairly well. (Elev was 810 msl)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | long x-countries and thin pilots w/ the nose tank |
241(at)matronics.com>
What you have Oscar is a plane that you will trim by changing your fuel
load for a particular flight.
Most of you flying I suspect will be 1/2 hour round the airport type flying
so you'll fly with 10 gallons
instead of 16 so she's in a nice meaty part of the CG envelope.
When you go x-country solo you'll have enough baggage in the front seat to
help you out on the full tank
condition and if you have enough bladder control to fly the three solid
hours that it would take for you to
get 41CC down to where the fuel level makes you too far forward on the CG
then you are quite a guy.
I fly two hour legs on long x-countries with my nose tank and then
land. That is plenty of time in the
saddle plus it leaves you with a nice balanced situation. If you get into
the too far forward and too far aft
CG ranges then either you couldn't find gas at your last airport or didn't
drain off enough for featherweight
pilots to fly it.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
<5.1.1.5.2.20050112120337.01b15670(at)popserve.grc.nasa.gov>
well.... here's the story. It's quite depressing really. N74DV is
about 90% complete. Just needs a cowling, ailerone cables run and covering.
EVERYTHING else is complete.
Really this thing could be done in a few months time.... BUT (and this is a
very big BUT)
There is no point in me finishing this bird right now. Once it's done I
have no where to keep it. All the local airports around here have 7+ year
waiting lists for hangars. I'm 5 yrs into the list at one airport and have
moved from #150 in the list to #40. Still several years away on that.
So I've reached a point where I have lost all motivation to get this damn
thing finished.... I'm so frustrated. I've canvassed the airports talking
with hangar tenants in the past couple months and I really thought I'd find
something... even someone to let me share hangar space... but nope.
Nothing... zilch... nada.
So it looks like N74DV is gonna be sitting for a while.... and it could be a
long while. I know this will comeas a shock to most of you but I've even
mildly entertained selling the project and getting a spam can as there's
plenty of ramp space available.
Although that would likely never happen as my father would absolutley kill
me if I sold this project.... ha! 30yrs old and still afraid of dad. :)
Anyhow... I just had to vent off some frustration.....
I'm off to Ireland for a week beginning tomorrow... maybe that'll cheer me
up.
DJ Vegh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
DJ,
I know it's painful to have a fabric covered plane (particularly a
wooden one) sitting out in the sun, tied down instead of secure in a
nice dark hangar, but with today's fabrics and paints it really isn't as
bad as you might think. Use the Stits PolyFiber Process, with a good
solid coat of silver (polyspray) and their Aerothane polyurethane paint
and it should be no problem at all to have it outside for a couple of
years while you move up the hangar list. I don't know how latex house
paint would hold up under such conditions, but I know a number of Stits
covered planes that have sat outside for years with no noticeable
effects.
Besides, saying it "just needs covering" means you are at least a year
away from having to worry about a place to keep it. It took me well
over a year to cover and paint mine (granted, I lost a couple of months
waiting for weather warm enough to spray paint in my unheated garage).
Don't give up yet!
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
well.... here's the story. It's quite depressing really. N74DV is
about 90% complete. Just needs a cowling, ailerone cables run and
covering.
EVERYTHING else is complete.
Really this thing could be done in a few months time.... BUT (and this
is a
very big BUT)
There is no point in me finishing this bird right now. Once it's done I
have no where to keep it...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | filling the tank/was long x-c |
Mike wrote-
>you'll fly with 10 gallons instead of 16 so she's in a nice meaty part of
>the CG envelope.
Dagnab it, my mother always told me never to go outside barefoot when it's
cold, and my instructor always told me never to put the airplane away
without topping off the tanks. My mother is dead now, God rest her soul,
but I still have this thing about topping off with fuel at the end of the
day. But I understand (as Edwin, Mike, and the rest of you have most
helpfully pointed out)- that we have all of these things as tools that we
use to load and operate our machines properly and even as an older dog I can
still be taught new tricks.
Thanks for the fine discussions.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: filling the tank/was long x-c |
Oscar,
The thing about filling the tanks is to keep condensation out of the fuel. But
if you sump your tanks before fight like your supposed to it shouldn't be a problem....as
long as the sumps are at the lowest point. The small amounts that
you may not get are caught in the gaskolator (not sure about the proper spelling)before
it goes to the carb. A lot of airplanes manufactured today may have
four to six seats but if you top them off may only be able to legally take
off with one person on board. Me personally, I would rather take off with partial
fuel, light load and go play.
Jim Dallas
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 12:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: filling the tank/was long x-c
Mike wrote-
>you'll fly with 10 gallons instead of 16 so she's in a nice meaty part of
>the CG envelope.
Dagnab it, my mother always told me never to go outside barefoot when it's
cold, and my instructor always told me never to put the airplane away
without topping off the tanks. My mother is dead now, God rest her soul,
but I still have this thing about topping off with fuel at the end of the
day. But I understand (as Edwin, Mike, and the rest of you have most
helpfully pointed out)- that we have all of these things as tools that we
use to load and operate our machines properly and even as an older dog I can
still be taught new tricks.
Thanks for the fine discussions.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: filling the tank/was long x-c |
Pieters,
This recent discussion of fuel tanks and CG has activated my old wheels to
turn. No doubt that a Piet type aircraft is difficult to trim, CG, with a
forward fuse tank from full to 3 gallons, never let it get below that. NX311CC,
Repiet, is sitting in the shop with a completed fuse and center section. Has an
18
gal alum fuel tank forward to firewall. So, if I takeoff from Shreveport to
Brodhead will full tank and 190 lb Corky in the rear pit it should fly great
with a slight back pressure needed on the stick for the first hour. By the time
I land in Arkadelphia I will probably be healing the stick with forward
pressure. These assumptions are based upon experience of Nathan Moss flying NX41CC.
So, the WB can be controlled with the amount of fuel in the tank relative to
the weight of the rear pit pilot.
So, if I were to build a center section alum tank of 14.8 gal capacity it
would be very simple and convenient and pleasant flying on any given situation
knowing how much fuel to have in forward tank for balance AND extended cruise.
No elaborate plumbing required just a Y at the gascolator and another line
cutoff within pilot reach for the wing tank. When I add fuel in Arkadelphia and
all points nawth to Brodhead just merely top off the wing tank.
Now, in addition with 32+ gals there is no limit except the lower back to
where you might go. Might even make Beliese and stay with the fisherman.
Gad!!!!!!! imagine an 8hr leg in a Piet
Corky, dreaming in La with his bride
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Horizontal and Vertical stab fittings |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
Of course.
I was thinking in the fore and aft direction - not vertically. I guess
it wasn't much of a problem - I had no problem assembling mine, with no
allowances made for fabric thickness there.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
Because after covering the top and bottom of the horizontal stab, top
of the fuselage under the stab, and the bottom of the fin the fin
itself which has the top two rudder hinges in it is going to be
sitting higher than it was when everything was bare wood. (By the
thickness of four layers of fabric and fabric tape). So your bottom
rudder hinge holes don't line up any more (unless you wait until after
covering to drill them).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
<5.1.1.5.2.20050112120337.01b15670(at)popserve.grc.nasa.gov> <000501c4f8cd$88e6d5b0$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com>
| Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV
>
> well.... here's the story. It's quite depressing really. N74DV is
> about 90% complete. Just needs a cowling, ailerone cables run and
covering.
> EVERYTHING else is complete.
>
DJ you've hit a nerve. This is the first time I've verbalized this outside
of my immediate family, but I'm afraid I waited too late to start my Piet.
It's very close to being finished and now I'm in a race with my health. I'm
planning to complete the plane then see if I can still declare myself
"airworthy". I have a second Piet which is in storage which I have decided
to sell. You're right, it is depressing.......Good luck........Carl Vought
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
Hey, not only would your old man raise hell, but a whole mess of us TACOs and
a bunch of them Damned Yankess would be pissed as well.
I'd look into renting a hanger 150 miles away in some obscure town. I had a
hanger in a small town about 3 hours away that cost me $35 a month! This was in
Childress, Texas and the rates have sky-rocketed to $45 a month now (13 years
later.) NO WAY IN HELL ARE YOU SELLING THAT AIRPLANE!
You won't be living in Mesa all your life and some day you'll be in a part of
the country that isn't growing so darned fast... then you would kick yourself
for getting rid of your airplane.
Seriously, if you had to park the airplane 300 miles away, you could make
this work.
If you were so darned far away, I'd let you park it here at my place.
Something will give, just KEEP THE AIRPLANE.
Isn't there an airport in Florence, AZ? If not, try Payson... but don't give
up.
Maybe I'll build a storage building at Knot-2-Shabby and you can park it here
for free.
Sterling
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rear cockpit solo |
| From: | horzpool(at)goldengate.net |
Oscar
This is a piddly point, but the min fuel spec if you are using an A-65 is
about 5 gal.
Dick N.>
> insofar as it will be nearly impossible to overload the airplane, but does
> indicate some care is required to keep the aft C of G in range. With 170
> lb. pilot and 210 lb. passenger, minimum fuel (2 gal.), and min. oil, it's
> at maximum aft limit but still 183 lbs. under gross.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
<200501120756.j0C7uev32241(at)matronics.com>
<5.1.1.5.2.20050112120337.01b15670(at)popserve.grc.nasa.gov>
<000501c4f8cd$88e6d5b0$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com>
DJ,
Do what I did when I bought the Taylorcraft. Get out the sectional and
draw a circle at the longest distance that you feel like driving to go
flying. Then call the owner of every farm strip that is in the circle. I
made it about 4 before the guy said yes, I could use his old hangar. Also
ask the old CFIs about strips that aren't on the sectional. There are a
huge number of them here in upstate NY.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
At 12:38 PM 1/12/2005, DJ Vegh wrote:
>
>well.... here's the story. It's quite depressing really. N74DV is
>about 90% complete. Just needs a cowling, ailerone cables run and covering.
>EVERYTHING else is complete.
>
>Really this thing could be done in a few months time.... BUT (and this is a
>very big BUT)
>
>There is no point in me finishing this bird right now. Once it's done I
>have no where to keep it. All the local airports around here have 7+ year
>waiting lists for hangars. I'm 5 yrs into the list at one airport and have
>moved from #150 in the list to #40. Still several years away on that.
>
>So I've reached a point where I have lost all motivation to get this damn
>thing finished.... I'm so frustrated. I've canvassed the airports talking
>with hangar tenants in the past couple months and I really thought I'd find
>something... even someone to let me share hangar space... but nope.
>Nothing... zilch... nada.
>
>So it looks like N74DV is gonna be sitting for a while.... and it could be a
>long while. I know this will comeas a shock to most of you but I've even
>mildly entertained selling the project and getting a spam can as there's
>plenty of ramp space available.
>
>Although that would likely never happen as my father would absolutley kill
>me if I sold this project.... ha! 30yrs old and still afraid of dad. :)
>
>Anyhow... I just had to vent off some frustration.....
>
>I'm off to Ireland for a week beginning tomo rrow...maybethat'llcheerme
>up.
>
>DJ Vegh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
Arizona Pieter,
In my short lifetime I've hitch hiked, railroaded, motored and flown over
your fair state. In most places there is nothing, I mean nothing. Now is that
flat desert so expensive that those 150 waiters couldn't find a little spot
somewhere like 10 acres for sale or lease, post flags for a runway, build a few
pole sheds and you could build your own waiting list? Maybe America has passed
me
up but I'll be damned if I would give up because of no hangar space in Mesa
and other close places. Anyone with enough guts to drive a Piet through their
neighborhood should be able to find it a home in the desert. A Piet doesn't
need hay or water. Talk to some dusters for advice.
Corky, flying near the bayou in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
DJ, a hanger is really just a luxury. When I was
barnstorming (first in the WACO-see attchment-and then
in the Bird) I would be away from home base for as
much a three months at a time, always moving from one
town to another, and rarely ever saw a hanger.
Instead, I covered the cockpits and engine with old
Army ponchos, all tied down nice and tight and made
sure I had plenty of tie-down ropes in place. I
carried a set of home-made tiedown anchors for when
there was only grass for the plane to sit upon. We
weathered out many storms and generally bad weather
together, me with a small tent pitched near the plane.
The plane got wiped down a lot and flown even more.
Rocker box grease, fresh thrown from the engine, makes
a great protective layer over the paint to help shed
rain-drops off the drum taught fabric. I never really
saw any worse for wear and weather by doing this.
Folks get used to having a nice warm and dry hanger to
keep their pride and joys in, but more planes have sat
outside than they have inside a hanger. Don't get me
wrong, a hanger is very nice if you have one, but
don't get rid of your airplane (and I'm not sure I
would drive three hours just to fly) just go to the
nearest Army/Navy Surplus store and buy you some
"portable hangers." Good luck and hang(er) in there,
something will come up sooner or later...it always
does.
Doc
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvjengel(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | elevator & rudder hinge brackets |
I have just started rebuilding a Grega Piet that needs new hinge brackets
for the elevators and rudder. Are these available to purchase somewhere or do
they have to be built from scratch.
Thanks
Jerry Engel
rvjengel(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Blackwell <aerialphotos(at)dp.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sat in my first Peit today |
My point was that I knew it could be modified, but I do not pretend to
know even close to enough to know what can and can not be changed from
plans and still be safe.
I would need some fairly significant changes. Raising the height of the
wing from the fuselage would be one Id want to have at least some
forward vis and that opens the door to many potential problems. So does
adding length an width potentially to a fuselage. If a revised set of
plans for a big guy were available Id buy them.
I didn't mean to start the purist debate. If a set of plans were
available that had the alterations made and been reviewed by someone
more versed in these matters than myself, Id go that route. Im a pilot
not a designer. I just might mistake something that is a big deal for
something that isn't and I want to be here to complain when I do not get
my social security checks. Any airplane, even an aircraft as simple as
a Piet can and will bite if not treated with respect. For that matter
any airplane that has survived and thrived as long as a Piet deserves
that anyway.
Mark
Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sat in my first Peit today |
Jack
Do you happen to remember your turtledeck dimensions?
You mentioned that you raised it a couple of inches - was that across the
board for all the turtledecks or did you use some other method of smoothing
it out?
I ask because I'm about your height - and because I'm crazy about the looks
of your airplane.
Ken in Austin, who's putting off mountains of work on the hold house to
squeeze in a little Piet time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com> |
<000501c4f8cd$88e6d5b0$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com>
| Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
To follwo up on Dave's suggestion to look for every little unknown airport
possible, here's a great site with a bunch of places you may have never
heard of, updated frequently:
Abandoned & Little-Known Airfields Website
http://members.tripod.com/airfields_freeman/
Keep the faith... the waiting list here in Melbourne FL (MLB) is about 150+
people long from what I've heard and the idiots running the local airport
are working hard to REMOVE half the (now full) T-Hangars and our crosswind
runway. That has me considering whether the Piet or Zodiac is the more
practical plane... at least a metal plane won't be quite as bad outside
here. Of course, with our daily thunderstorms, frequent tornadoes and
microbursts, small hail, intense lightning, and the occasional hurricanes
don't kill the wooden planes left sitting outside, then the wood rot
probably will. Just my opinion, I know some have done this with few problems
but it seems like a big gamble for something you've poured years of your
life into. There's a Fly Baby bipe down at Valkaria that has been sitting
outside, it looks ROUGH. Dunno what it looked like before, but it sure looks
like a plane that's been stored outside for a long time.
Arizona is probably at least better for outside storage. I know of a
wooden-winged biplane that came apart in mid air recently, nearly killing
the pilot, due to being stored outdoors for only two years in the Miami
area... the whole spar was rotted through from moisture that had condensed
or collected inside the wing... it wasn't found when the new owner bought
the plane (which had been built by an Oshkosh-winning craftsman, the
original construction was excellent and the design was not an issue... it
was all from improper storage.) and after 11 months and 250 hours of acro,
it finally let go. High price to pay for not having a hangar available.
The other side of the coin is that apparently, the companies that build and
operate T-Hangars have to make their money back in about 7 years for it to
be economically viable for them to do (something to do with the duration of
their construction loans or taxes I suppose.) Since the construction boom
has doubled the price of steel lately, they would have to charge something
like $900 a month to make any money, so therefore, they don't have any
incentive to build since nobody would sign up. At least that's what our EAA
chapter was told by a guy who had spent considerable time researching our
situation here.
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV
>
> well.... here's the story. It's quite depressing really. N74DV is
> about 90% complete. Just needs a cowling, ailerone cables run and
covering.
> EVERYTHING else is complete.
>
> Really this thing could be done in a few months time.... BUT (and this is
a
> very big BUT)
>
> There is no point in me finishing this bird right now. Once it's done I
> have no where to keep it. All the local airports around here have 7+ year
> waiting lists for hangars. I'm 5 yrs into the list at one airport and
have
> moved from #150 in the list to #40. Still several years away on that.
>
> So I've reached a point where I have lost all motivation to get this damn
> thing finished.... I'm so frustrated. I've canvassed the airports
talking
> with hangar tenants in the past couple months and I really thought I'd
find
> something... even someone to let me share hangar space... but nope.
> Nothing... zilch... nada.
>
> So it looks like N74DV is gonna be sitting for a while.... and it could be
a
> long while. I know this will comeas a shock to most of you but I've
even
> mildly entertained selling the project and getting a spam can as there's
> plenty of ramp space available.
>
> Although that would likely never happen as my father would absolutley kill
> me if I sold this project.... ha! 30yrs old and still afraid of dad.
:)
>
> Anyhow... I just had to vent off some frustration.....
>
> I'm off to Ireland for a week beginning tomorrow... maybe that'll cheer me
> up.
>
> DJ Vegh
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Todd & Sarah Baslee" <twbaslee(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sat in my first Peit today |
Clear DayHi guys,
I sat in a Pietenpol for the first time in Brodhead and found it at first quite
interesting. I am 6' 4.5" and weighed 240 lbs. Getting into the Piet for the
first time was a challenge. However, I made it. Bill Rewey was kind enough
to give me my first ride in a Piet and later explained that he made some modifications
to the original (longer & wider). He has documented all of his work
and, I believe, he has some of his documentation and recommendations for sale
- not at a very high price. My friend, Greg Bacon, recently purchased Mountain
Piet. I found getting into it quite easy. I also fit quite well. The only
problem that I have encountered with the Piet and my largeness, is the windscreen.
While flying, my face is above the windscreen which can cause communication
problems and the such (a few bugs in the teeth).
DJ, When I read your posting I was very surprised. Seeing your website and reading
your posts on this site has really encouraged me. Just because there is
no space available now doesn't mean that something, somewhere is not going to
open up soon. Just keep up the work and encouraging us newbie's with your posts
and your website updates.
Todd Baslee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Dick wrote-
>This is a piddly point, but the min fuel spec if you are using an A-65 is
>about 5 gal.
I used the weight & balance numbers that Corky used in his paperwork when he
got the plane inspected, and he showed 2 gal. The engine really does burn
about 4 gal./hr., so a 30 min. reserve is 2 gal. and that creates a worse
case than 5 unless you're using a fuel tank in the wing center section
(which this plane doesn't have).
We're splitting hairs here, since we know that on occasion some pilots will
even burn the last drop of fuel in the tank and still not make it safely
back to an airport (accident statistics show that). The condition we're
examining for would be one of those "boy, I sure should have stopped at that
last airport for fuel" deals, the little wire isn't sticking out of the fuel
cap very much at all, it's the end of the day, you're tired, and in
unfamiliar territory. To then have to land the airplane with an aft CG
condition is to create a scenario for a problem.
Thanks for all the help, guys! PS- it looks like the welding work should be
all done by next week, when we'll move to the wood and fabric repairs. It
depends on how quickly we can get streamline tubing for the wing cabanes...
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sat in my first Peit today |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
Ken,
I think I made the turtledeck 1-1/2" taller at the rear of the rear
cockpit, and tapered the height down to plans height at the tail. I
made my formers circular arcs (layed them out on AutoCAD) and spaced the
stringers an even distance around the arcs, with the stringers
perpendicular to the arc at each former. This results in each stringer
being curved except the center stringer, but the curves are very gentle
(and look nice, to my eye). Of course, after the stringers are located,
the formers get cut down a bit so they won't touch the fabric. I've
attached a photo that shows the stringers and their formers, as well as
the small spruce strips placed in between the stringers in the
midsection between each former to prevent the fabric shrinking from
warping the stringers (a little trick advised by Mike Cuy). I apologize
for the long download, for those with dial-up modems - I don't have a
low resolution copy of the picture.
I don't remember what radius I used for my formers, but as I recall, the
radii decrease as you move towrd the tail, in such a way that they
describe a cone, whose axis is parallel to the upper longerons (does
that make sense? Perhaps I can draw a sketch and send it to you).
Jack Phillips
Halfway through building the new stabilizer for NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
Jack
Do you happen to remember your turtledeck dimensions?
You mentioned that you raised it a couple of inches - was that across
the board for all the turtledecks or did you use some other method of
smoothing it out?
I ask because I'm about your height - and because I'm crazy about the
looks of your airplane.
Ken in Austin, who's putting off mountains of work on the hold house to
squeeze in a little Piet time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sat in my first Peit today |
Jack,
What a beautiful airplane. Do you have a web site?
Jack Textor
Des Moines
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
DJ,
This plays to one of my worst fears, projected maybe 4 years in the
future, BUT when I got on my EAA chapter's hangar waiting list, I had
some interesting discussions. One member tied down his Aeronca Champ
for something like 8 years before selling it, and it was airworthy and
regularly flown right up until then. Granted, the Champ is tube and
fabric, but isn't its spar wood? He claimed it wasn't a problem AND
we're talking New England, which gets a tad more precip and cold than
Arizona. Second, it may be undignified, but you could tie down with a
Cover-It hangar depending on the airport manager or their policies
(http://www.coverit.com/). I hope you find a solution because I could
easily be in a similar boat when I complete my labor of love. I can
either have faith that this can be solved or make lawn furniture, I
suppose, and lawn furniture is a lot more boring.
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sat in my first Peit today |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
Thanks, Jack.
I do have a website, at:
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep16
<http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep16&groupid130718&ck>
&groupid130718&ck , but I haven't updated it in quite a while. I need
to post the pictures of my first flight, and probably the pictures of my
recent crash (my fault, not the airplane's). I'm currently hard at work
rebuilding the Piet and hope to have it at Brodhead this summer.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
Jack,
What a beautiful airplane. Do you have a web site?
Jack Textor
Des Moines
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sat in my first Peit today |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
Hi Joe,
Good to see you on the list - haven't heard from you in a while. Yes, I
saw spacers liek that on a Pietenpol under construction at Brodhead in
2000 and they looked like a good idea so I copied them. Helps to keep
the ribs in shape when ribstitching.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
Jack,
Thanks for the picture. I noticed small spacers in the tail ribs.
Were
these also added to prevent the fabric from warping/distorting the tail
ribs?
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sat in my first Peit today |
Good points Mark. Few current and past Piet builders have professional
aircraft design experience. I sure don't. And along the same lines I
never welded a thing before starting my Piet but I took a TIG class
and bought a TIG machine and am welding my controls now. When I first
started this thing I assumed no one flew any aircraft that wasn't
welded by a professional, licensed, bonded, and insured genuine
aircraft welder (in some countries that is a requirement). I redesign
based on what has been proven to work in flying Piets built by the
great people on this newsgroup and every other Piet builder I can find
(Broadhead is an oasis in that regard).
This is an aspect of homebuilding that kit-plane builders may never
understand, the detailed learning aspects of Piet building, learning
the whys and why nots and alternatives. With a complete kit you
certainly learn a lot but may never have to weld, cut, or bend metal
or figure out what AN bolt to use, lay up fiberglass, etc. , thats all
provided for you (insert bolt 12A in hole T3 and screw on nut n7).
For Piet builders its like that saying 'getting there is half the
fun'. For me building and learning is most of the fun, some builders
have even said that finally flying their Piet was anti-climatic after
the building process.
Rick H.
>
> My point was that I knew it could be modified, but I do not pretend to
> know even close to enough to know what can and can not be changed from
> plans and still be safe.
>
> I would need some fairly significant changes. Raising the height of the
> wing from the fuselage would be one Id want to have at least some
> forward vis and that opens the door to many potential problems. So does
> adding length an width potentially to a fuselage. If a revised set of
> plans for a big guy were available Id buy them.
>
> I didn't mean to start the purist debate. If a set of plans were
> available that had the alterations made and been reviewed by someone
> more versed in these matters than myself, Id go that route. Im a pilot
> not a designer. I just might mistake something that is a big deal for
> something that isn't and I want to be here to complain when I do not get
> my social security checks. Any airplane, even an aircraft as simple as
> a Piet can and will bite if not treated with respect. For that matter
> any airplane that has survived and thrived as long as a Piet deserves
> that anyway.
>
> Mark
>
> Mark
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Old Airports and lack of hangers |
http://members.tripod.com/airfields_freeman/
I visited the above website as recommended by Mike Whaley in regard to DJ and
other folks having a lack of hanger space and affordable shelter at their
respective airfields. It's a really neat website, especially for anyone having
an
interest in old airfields. Worth a looksie.
Buying a piece of land and establishing your own "legal" landing strip is
getting more difficult these days, especially along border states, because of
9-11 and people running drugs from Mexico. (My "airport" is not too far from
Crawford, Texas and I bet it's impossible to establish a landing site near the
President's ranch. And even if you did, you'd have to keep your airplane grounded
a lot of the time.) I'm happy that I built my airport in 1995 when there
wasn't a lot of hoops and hurdles to go through, but for many people, building
you
own grass strip and hanger and such isn't an option.
I think AOPA and EAA might be a resource for aviators in need of a shelter
for their airplanes. Here in Texas, we have a few airport managers (Abilene ABI
is an example) where the local airport manager doesn't give a flip about the
"little guy" who owns an airplane having something less than two engines and
especially something as humble as a Pietenpol. Too many airport managers have
tunnel vision on big iron and they want to run-off tube and fabric flyers and
old wooden airplanes from their fields. In the past, ABI had a supportive
airport manager, but the trend is for new managers only to support corporate and
commercial aviation.
In Texas, if an airport is getting money from the state, our Texas Department
of Transportation (TxDOT Aviation Division) has been very helpful in letting
bozo airport managers and FBOs know they ARE NOT supposed to be renting
hangers to people who want to shelter their motorhomes, boats or other non-aviation
related items, if an aviator is in need of a space. I also think that AOPA is
aggressive in this regard but I haven't seen EAA taking a lead on this,
although they might be, I'm just not aware of EAA efforts to help out in this
problem.
Sterling Brooks
EAA 695308
AOPA 01014359
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | greg menoche <gnwac(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Sat in my first Peit today |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
--- MIME Errors ---
A message with no text/plain section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using plaintext formatting.
NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the
message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus
WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be
informed of the potential problem with their system as soon
as possible.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Turnbuckles and A/C Cable |
Hello Gang,
Here is a website that carries A/C cable and
turnbuckles. http://www.blairwirerope.com/
Has anyone on the list had any experience with them?
I don't know of the pricing as yet as I just emailed
them for a catalog. Any response is appreciated.
Thaks,
Doc
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Corvair Piet on ebay |
Guys-- I just noticed that Carl Loar has his Corvair powered Air Camper on
ebay.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4518186263&category=63679&sspagename=WDVW
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sat in my first Peit today |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
Those metal "boxes" are the comm radio and intercom (on the right) and
transponder and blind encoder (on the left). That was the only place I
could think of to mount them, and it actually works very well - they are
easily seen and accessed from the rear cockpit, but they don't even show
up to most onlookers unless they are pointed out, so they don't detract
from the antique look of the airplane.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: greg menoche [mailto:gnwac(at)earthlink.net]
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sat in my first Peit today
Jack, what are the metal boxes under the wing tank? Your plane looks
great too!
Greg Menoche
Delaware
_-
see
Matronics
Forums.
_-
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
I'm sure Bernard is looking down at us and chortling away.
What did he design this thing for anyway? Get it done. Get
it in the air. go flying! And yet here am I turning it into some
piece of Louie the Fourteenth furniture. You should see these
fantastic burl veneers I lucked into for my cockpit panels.
Jaguar eat your heart out! But you know what? I have known
right from the first stick that I would never be able to afford a
hanger. Everywhere I look there's planes out in the sun and
rain year round for their entire life. And think of those youngsters
that might hang out at the local strip. They're gonna develop
some love for what? dead closed up industrial buildings or the
real live, in your face, honest to god flying machines that can be
touched and smelt. We need them! Those future aviators.
For what it's worth, there's wood and fabric airplanes around
here that have been out in the weather for 30 years that fly regularly.
Average rainfall? 72 inches. Average temps? -5 to 90F.
Clif, on the Wetcoast of North America.
>
> DJ,
>
> This plays to one of my worst fears, projected maybe 4 years in the
> future, BUT when I got on my EAA chapter's hangar waiting list, I had
> some interesting discussions. One member tied down his Aeronca Champ
> for something like 8 years before selling it, and it was airworthy and
> regularly flown right up until then. Granted, the Champ is tube and
> fabric, but isn't its spar wood? He claimed it wasn't a problem AND
> we're talking New England, which gets a tad more precip and cold than
> Arizona. Second, it may be undignified, but you could tie down with a
> Cover-It hangar depending on the airport manager or their policies
> (http://www.coverit.com/). I hope you find a solution because I could
> easily be in a similar boat when I complete my labor of love. I can
> either have faith that this can be solved or make lawn furniture, I
> suppose, and lawn furniture is a lot more boring.
>
> Mark Hodgson
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
Here is a picture of the inside tailcone of a "new" Pietenpol that had never
flown, and sat in a carport with "protection" from the rain on 3 sides and
covered by a tarp. The wood rot in this "new" and never flown Pietenpol is
sickening.
I doubt I would like to park a handmade wooden airplane outside, even if I
lived in Arizona. I've seen DJs airplane at his house and it is a masterpiece
and it deserves being sheltered in a hanger, if not a 40 X 30 trophy case when
not being flown. They might not get a lot of rain in Arizona, but they get
violent chinook winds that states east of the Pecos River don't get.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Thursby" <jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
I think what people mean to say is that with proper varnishing/epoxy
coatings and drain holes, wood will last outside just fine. Your example
did not display signs of having either done to it. FWIW I parked my Fisher
FP303 outside on a grass strip in Massachusetts for three years without a
problem.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 7:15 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV
Here is a picture of the inside tailcone of a "new" Pietenpol that had
never flown, and sat in a carport with "protection" from the rain on 3 sides
and covered by a tarp. The wood rot in this "new" and never flown Pietenpol
is sickening.
I doubt I would like to park a handmade wooden airplane outside, even if I
lived in Arizona. I've seen DJs airplane at his house and it is a
masterpiece and it deserves being sheltered in a hanger, if not a 40 X 30
trophy case when not being flown. They might not get a lot of rain in
Arizona, but they get violent chinook winds that states east of the Pecos
River don't get.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Old Airports and lack of hangers |
May be part of the reason that powered parachutes are so popular.
Don't need airports or hangers.
wrote:
> http://members.tripod.com/airfields_freeman/
>
> I visited the above website as recommended by Mike Whaley in regard to DJ
> and other folks having a lack of hanger space and affordable shelter at
> their respective airfields. It's a really neat website, especially for
> anyone having an interest in old airfields. Worth a looksie.
>
> Buying a piece of land and establishing your own "legal" landing strip is
> getting more difficult these days, especially along border states, because
> of 9-11 and people running drugs from Mexico. (My "airport" is not too far
> from Crawford, Texas and I bet it's impossible to establish a landing site
> near the President's ranch. And even if you did, you'd have to keep your
> airplane grounded a lot of the time.) I'm happy that I built my airport in
> 1995 when there wasn't a lot of hoops and hurdles to go through, but for
> many people, building you own grass strip and hanger and such isn't an
> option.
>
> I think AOPA and EAA might be a resource for aviators in need of a shelter
> for their airplanes. Here in Texas, we have a few airport managers (Abilene
> ABI is an example) where the local airport manager doesn't give a flip about
> the "little guy" who owns an airplane having something less than two engines
> and especially something as humble as a Pietenpol. Too many airport managers
> have tunnel vision on big iron and they want to run-off tube and fabric
> flyers and old wooden airplanes from their fields. In the past, ABI had a
> supportive airport manager, but the trend is for new managers only to
> support corporate and commercial aviation.
>
> In Texas, if an airport is getting money from the state, our Texas
> Department of Transportation (TxDOT Aviation Division) has been very helpful
> in letting bozo airport managers and FBOs know they ARE NOT supposed to be
> renting hangers to people who want to shelter their motorhomes, boats or
> other non-aviation related items, if an aviator is in need of a space. I
> also think that AOPA is aggressive in this regard but I haven't seen EAA
> taking a lead on this, although they might be, I'm just not aware of EAA
> efforts to help out in this problem.
>
> Sterling Brooks
> EAA 695308
> AOPA 01014359
>
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
<00c601c4fa0d$5f7e2d40$4e705118@dawsonaviation>
DJ,
If you can't find a reasonably close hangar, park it outside, fly it, enjoy
life. Seize the day.
I was just about to give up my dream of aircraft ownership because I just
couldn't justify the cost. My good friend, Greg Cardinal, pointed out the
fact that you can never "justify the cost" of owning an aircraft that you
don't really need. You become an airplane owner because it's your dream.
Greg's words changed my mind and my life. I've had a Cherokee 140, a Corben
Jr. Ace, and I'm now the proud owner of the wounded Mountain Piet.
Consequently, after moving home to Missouri, I couldn't find hangar space
close by for my 140. I kept it hangared 1.5 hours away in Macon, MO for
about a year. I decided to find land suitable for a grass strip. I now
live on 75 acres with an 1850 ft grass strip and a pole barn for a hangar.
I can't quantify how much aviation has enriched my life and the people I
share it with.
Enrich your life! Fly it. Fly it. Fly it. Even if it suffers minor wear
and tear from being in the elements, your life will be way better than if
you never fly YOUR homebuilt aircraft!
Greg Bacon
Missouri
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV
>
> I'm sure Bernard is looking down at us and chortling away.
> What did he design this thing for anyway? Get it done. Get
> it in the air. go flying! And yet here am I turning it into some
> piece of Louie the Fourteenth furniture. You should see these
> fantastic burl veneers I lucked into for my cockpit panels.
> Jaguar eat your heart out! But you know what? I have known
> right from the first stick that I would never be able to afford a
> hanger. Everywhere I look there's planes out in the sun and
> rain year round for their entire life. And think of those youngsters
> that might hang out at the local strip. They're gonna develop
> some love for what? dead closed up industrial buildings or the
> real live, in your face, honest to god flying machines that can be
> touched and smelt. We need them! Those future aviators.
> For what it's worth, there's wood and fabric airplanes around
> here that have been out in the weather for 30 years that fly regularly.
> Average rainfall? 72 inches. Average temps? -5 to 90F.
>
> Clif, on the Wetcoast of North America.
>
> >
> > DJ,
> >
> > This plays to one of my worst fears, projected maybe 4 years in the
> > future, BUT when I got on my EAA chapter's hangar waiting list, I had
> > some interesting discussions. One member tied down his Aeronca Champ
> > for something like 8 years before selling it, and it was airworthy and
> > regularly flown right up until then. Granted, the Champ is tube and
> > fabric, but isn't its spar wood? He claimed it wasn't a problem AND
> > we're talking New England, which gets a tad more precip and cold than
> > Arizona. Second, it may be undignified, but you could tie down with a
> > Cover-It hangar depending on the airport manager or their policies
> > (http://www.coverit.com/). I hope you find a solution because I could
> > easily be in a similar boat when I complete my labor of love. I can
> > either have faith that this can be solved or make lawn furniture, I
> > suppose, and lawn furniture is a lot more boring.
> >
> > Mark Hodgson
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
I like what you said there Greg - quite inspirational actually. With regard
to DJ's plane being outside, what about some sort of wing covers. I saw a
picture somewhere (I think on the Sonex Yahoo site) of a plane with some
kind of wing covers on it. I guess it would protect from the UV degradation
effects from the sun and maybe even provide some level of protection from
hail etc. You could probably have something custom made at a boat cover
shop for a few hundred bucks (notice that if you say "bucks" it doesn't
sounds quite so bad). At any rate DJ, I think we've all been looking
forward to your beautiful airplane taking flight and for you to sell it
would probably require some of us to seek counciling from the despair.
Don't do it man... don't do it.
Eric W.
>From: Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)direcway.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV
>Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 09:45:07 -0600
>
>
>DJ,
>
>If you can't find a reasonably close hangar, park it outside, fly it, enjoy
>life. Seize the day.
>
>I was just about to give up my dream of aircraft ownership because I just
>couldn't justify the cost. My good friend, Greg Cardinal, pointed out the
>fact that you can never "justify the cost" of owning an aircraft that you
>don't really need. You become an airplane owner because it's your dream.
>Greg's words changed my mind and my life. I've had a Cherokee 140, a
>Corben
>Jr. Ace, and I'm now the proud owner of the wounded Mountain Piet.
>Consequently, after moving home to Missouri, I couldn't find hangar space
>close by for my 140. I kept it hangared 1.5 hours away in Macon, MO for
>about a year. I decided to find land suitable for a grass strip. I now
>live on 75 acres with an 1850 ft grass strip and a pole barn for a hangar.
>I can't quantify how much aviation has enriched my life and the people I
>share it with.
>
>Enrich your life! Fly it. Fly it. Fly it. Even if it suffers minor wear
>and tear from being in the elements, your life will be way better than if
>you never fly YOUR homebuilt aircraft!
>
>Greg Bacon
>Missouri
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Seat belt/shoulder harness attachments |
One thing that I forgot to pay special attention to while at Brodhead last
summer was how most folks anchor their Piet's seat belt/shoulder
harnesses....What's the recommended method and where to attach them? Anyone have
drawings?
I've got my fuselage all framed up to where I can add controls, landing gear,
instruments, etc., etc. Seat belts would be nice, too. ; )
Enjoyed Greg Bacon's post about Wicks -- I also enjoyed the pipe organ
factory tour when I was there three weeks ago. Don't forget to take an airplane
picture/poster to Buzzie's Diner in Highland (half a block or so from Wick's) if
you stop there for breakfast or lunch...good food, reasonable prices...
Still below zero this sunny but cold Saturday morning up here in Western
Wisconsin (I'm building the Piet fuselage in the basement)...15 below or so again
tonight and tomorrow night. Reminds me of my old history professor at Winona
State U on mornings like this...he'd come staggering into class with icicles
hanging from his beard, and muttering about "the American Siberia." Well, as
Garrison Keillor says, "Up here Mother Nature tries to kill us about six months
out of the year." Builds character...! I imagine I'll here from somebody up
around Fargo ND where it's really cold...
Stay warm -- won't be long until July/Brodhead once again!
Fred B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Burl wood for panel |
Can anyone recommend a good source for burl wood for the instrument panel? I
saw a great example of this at Oshkosh last summer and it really made the
cockpit standout.
Also, sometime ago I recall seeing a sample of something I think was called
monkeywood.
I'd like to know a good vendor for such veneer.
Thanks,
Sterling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Turnbuckles and A/C Cable |
looks like aircraft quality cable. But not aircraft quality hardware.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat belt/shoulder harness attachments |
On NX18235 we attached the pilots seat belt to the fuselage frame that supports
the pilot's seat back.
The pilots shoulder harness is attached to the vertical fin's forward fuselage
attach point with cables running along the turtledeck stringers (the turtledeck
was raised about 4 inches).
Passenger seat belt is attached to brackets which are bolted through the ash cross
member and floorboard.
Passenger shoulder harness is attached to a bracket welded to the aft right cabane
strut (a single, diagonal strap is used for the passenger shoulder harness).
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis (-18 F this morning)
----- Original Message -----
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 9:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat belt/shoulder harness attachments
One thing that I forgot to pay special attention to while at Brodhead last summer
was how most folks anchor their Piet's seat belt/shoulder harnesses....What's
the recommended method and where to attach them? Anyone have drawings? I've
got my fuselage all framed up to where I can add controls, landing gear, instruments,
etc., etc. Seat belts would be nice, too. ; )
Stay warm -- won't be long until July/Brodhead once again!
Fred B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Volckmann <mike_cfi(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Hanger space in the Phoenix Area |
DJ,
I have not yet started my project, haven't even
ordered the plans yet but am getting closer. Part of
what keeps delaying me is the thought of building
something more complicated than a door stop. I have
spent my life as a computer programmer and as a flight
instructor. Never really built anything.
I currently have a hanger at the Goodyear Airport
(GYR) and work at Glendale Airport (GEU) with a little
work rearranging my hanger we could possibly store
your pietenpol in my hanger until you bubbled to the
top of the Falcon Field (FFZ) hanger list. I can be
reached at 602-819-8359 if you want to talk.
Mike
PS Have the hanger to store a bag of parts that will
someday be an Auster J1.
__________________________________
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Burl wood for panel |
Rockler, e-bay, or do a Google search on "Wood Veneer". I've attached a small photo
(65KB) of ours. Burled black walnut, bookmatched. Front and rear panels are
successive veneers so the burls match.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 12:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Burl wood for panel
Can anyone recommend a good source for burl wood for the instrument panel? I
saw a great example of this at Oshkosh last summer and it really made the cockpit
standout.
Also, sometime ago I recall seeing a sample of something I think was called monkeywood.
I'd like to know a good vendor for such veneer.
Thanks,
Sterling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
TIG welders, any problem welding 4130 to stainless? Figured I would
weld a stainless bolt to the top of the rudder bar post instead of a
Cadmiumplated AN bolt (Heard Cadmiumis bad stuff to breathe). Would
you use stainless or ER80 filler rod?
Thanks
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Burl wood for panel |
Try: www.constantines.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net> |
Clif and Greg and List:
Clif, I am not familiar with Ferris Bueller, so you lost me on that
one. But I will research it until I know what you mean. Or as my
carpenter friends say " I can't smell what you are stepping in."
Greg, I could not resist sending a picture of my cockpit panel. Yours
is awesome looking. Your picture turned out a lot better than mine. I
did notice the machine turning, the caning and the walnut stick grip.
You can see my burl thru the "too" many instruments, but just for fun
can you spot the garden hose, the British caulking gun parts or the
K-Mart freezer bump rail.
List: From now on I will try not to be a Piet repieter and will start a
new message.
Mike Luther
Anchorage (Banana belt) Alaska
NX1953M
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Burl wood for panel |
Try Certainly Wood in East Aurora,
NY. http://www.certainlywood.com/index.htm My wife has dropped some cash
there for marquetry supplies. Neat place to visit.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
At 01:00 PM 1/15/2005, N321TX(at)wmconnect.com wrote:
>Can anyone recommend a good source for burl wood for the instrument panel?
>I saw a great example of this at Oshkosh last summer and it really made
>the cockpit standout.
>
>Also, sometime ago I recall seeing a sample of something I think was
>called monkeywood.
>
>I'd like to know a good vendor for such veneer.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Sterling
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat belt/shoulder harness attachments |
On a really cold day all you can do is putter with Piet parts, throw in Mike Cuys
video and dream of summer.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 9:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat belt/shoulder harness attachments
One thing that I forgot to pay special attention to while at Brodhead last summer
was how most folks anchor their Piet's seat belt/shoulder harnesses....What's
the recommended method and where to attach them? Anyone have drawings? I've
got my fuselage all framed up to where I can add controls, landing gear, instruments,
etc., etc. Seat belts would be nice, too. ; )
Enjoyed Greg Bacon's post about Wicks -- I also enjoyed the pipe organ factory
tour when I was there three weeks ago. Don't forget to take an airplane picture/poster
to Buzzie's Diner in Highland (half a block or so from Wick's) if you
stop there for breakfast or lunch...good food, reasonable prices...
Still below zero this sunny but cold Saturday morning up here in Western Wisconsin
(I'm building the Piet fuselage in the basement)...15 below or so again
tonight and tomorrow night. Reminds me of my old history professor at Winona State
U on mornings like this...he'd come staggering into class with icicles hanging
from his beard, and muttering about "the American Siberia." Well, as Garrison
Keillor says, "Up here Mother Nature tries to kill us about six months out
of the year." Builds character...! I imagine I'll here from somebody up around
Fargo ND where it's really cold...
Stay warm -- won't be long until July/Brodhead once again!
Fred B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John and Phyllis Smoyer" <jpsmoyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Need help finding a master cylinder |
Can anyone advise me on a good source for a brake master cylinder suitable for
a Piet? Thanks to everyone for the informative postings and images. I really
enjoy this group.
Best Regards,
John Smoyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help finding a master cylinder |
Hi John and Phyllis:
Mine is a Matco MC-5 vertically mounted master cylinder with built in
reservoir from Aircraft Spruce. Price was $73.95 each. I am using this
with the rudder bar set-up. My brakes are activated by the balls of
each foot pushing down on a protruding rod that is connected to a lever
that attaches to the top of the master cylinder. I tried to show you my
setup in the 2 attached pictures. The view of the picture is from the
front with the firewall removed and the camera pointing into the
passenger compartment.
I liked the Scott heal brake idea and I tried to find some that I could
rebuild or buy inexpensively on E-Bay but had no luck . Otherwise they
are $654.00 a pair at Aircraft Spruce.
I am sure that there are atleast 10 different ways to go with the Piet
brake design, but I like mine cause the passenger and pilot can use the
brakes, also I have a set of parking brakes that I use all of the time
back and forth into the garage.
Mike Luther
NX1953M
Anchorage
John and Phyllis Smoyer wrote:
> Can anyone advise me on a good source for a brake master cylinder
> suitable for a Piet? Thanks to everyone for the informative postings
> and images. I really enjoy this group.Best Regards,John Smoyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darrel E. Jones" <wd6bor(at)vom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat belt/shoulder harness attachments |
Fred,
Take a look at the International Stinson Club Technical Manual. Gary
Murdock had made up sketches of the bolt-on brackets needed to put
harnesses in the Stinson. Check the club web site if you don't have the
manual. It is available from Joe Dexter on CD. A must have for 108- owners.
Darrel Jones
Sonoma, CA
N6982M
TBYH(at)aol.com wrote:
> One thing that I forgot to pay special attention to while at Brodhead
> last summer was how most folks anchor their Piet's seat belt/shoulder
> harnesses....What's the recommended method and where to attach them?
> Anyone have drawings? I've got my fuselage all framed up to where I
> can add controls, landing gear, instruments, etc., etc. Seat belts
> would be nice, too. ; )
>
> Enjoyed Greg Bacon's post about Wicks -- I also enjoyed the pipe organ
> factory tour when I was there three weeks ago. Don't forget to take an
> airplane picture/poster to Buzzie's Diner in Highland (half a block or
> so from Wick's) if you stop there for breakfast or lunch...good food,
> reasonable prices...
>
> Still below zero this sunny but cold Saturday morning up here in
> Western Wisconsin (I'm building the Piet fuselage in the
> basement)...15 below or so again tonight and tomorrow night. Reminds
> me of my old history professor at Winona State U on mornings like
> this...he'd come staggering into class with icicles hanging from his
> beard, and muttering about "the American Siberia." Well, as Garrison
> Keillor says, "Up here Mother Nature tries to kill us about six months
> out of the year." Builds character...! I imagine I'll here from
> somebody up around Fargo ND where it's _really_ cold...
>
> Stay warm -- won't be long until July/Brodhead once again!
> Fred B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darrel E. Jones" <wd6bor(at)vom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat belt/shoulder harness attachments, oops! |
It must be too late in the evening. I just posted a reply about
harnesses on my Stinson. I also installed harnesses in my Pietenpol-like
Pfiefer Sport, but it is tube fuselage and all I had to do was wrap the
ends around the cross tubes behind each seat position. A great tutorial
on installing shoulder harnesses is in Tony Bingles's book on Sport
Plane Construction techniques, I think. Flat brackets with through bolts
in shear as high as possible will work best. Try to borrow a copy of
Tony's books if possible. If not, they are available through EAA and
would be my recommendation for first books for a homebuilder's library.
Good luck on the Piet.
Darrel Jones
Pfiefer Sport, Ser.#2
N154JP
TBYH(at)aol.com wrote:
> One thing that I forgot to pay special attention to while at Brodhead
> last summer was how most folks anchor their Piet's seat belt/shoulder
> harnesses....What's the recommended method and where to attach them?
> Anyone have drawings? I've got my fuselage all framed up to where I
> can add controls, landing gear, instruments, etc., etc. Seat belts
> would be nice, too. ; )
>
> Enjoyed Greg Bacon's post about Wicks -- I also enjoyed the pipe organ
> factory tour when I was there three weeks ago. Don't forget to take an
> airplane picture/poster to Buzzie's Diner in Highland (half a block or
> so from Wick's) if you stop there for breakfast or lunch...good food,
> reasonable prices...
>
> Still below zero this sunny but cold Saturday morning up here in
> Western Wisconsin (I'm building the Piet fuselage in the
> basement)...15 below or so again tonight and tomorrow night. Reminds
> me of my old history professor at Winona State U on mornings like
> this...he'd come staggering into class with icicles hanging from his
> beard, and muttering about "the American Siberia." Well, as Garrison
> Keillor says, "Up here Mother Nature tries to kill us about six months
> out of the year." Builds character...! I imagine I'll here from
> somebody up around Fargo ND where it's _really_ cold...
>
> Stay warm -- won't be long until July/Brodhead once again!
> Fred B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Bill Sayre ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Bill Sayre
Lists: Pietenpol-List
Subject: Brodhead Fun
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/bannerbill@att.net.01.15.2005/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
It's a movie, "Ferris Buellers's Day Off".
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Burl panel
> Clif and Greg and List:
>
> Clif, I am not familiar with Ferris Bueller, so you lost me on that
> one. But I will research it until I know what you mean. Or as my
> carpenter friends say " I can't smell what you are stepping in.">
> Mike Luther
> Anchorage (Banana belt) Alaska
> NX1953M
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Seat belts/harnesses/Deke Slayton Museum Piet |
Thanks for excellent tips, Greg C. The Bingelis books are excellent, of
course (I wouldn't try to build an airplane without them), and you provided tips
very specific to the Piet -- many thanks again!
Here's an update on the Piet recently put on display at the Deke Slayton
Museum in Sparta, Wis.: According to a follow-up article in today's La Crosse
Tribune newspaper it was built by Raymond Schwarz of Glenview, IL. Took him seven
years to finish in the 1980s. The article also lists nine other people from
Monroe County, Wis., who had built Piets over the years. My only complaint is
that, like too many museums, they hung it from the ceiling -- how can young
people (or other builders) get up close and really see it if it's hanging from
a
20 or 30-foot ceiling? Perhaps they have a floor space issue, but I would feel
bad if they hung it up to "get it away from the kids." BHP would feel bad,
too. My 2 cents...
Have a great day!
Fred B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Mike, that is one of the nicest instrument panels I have ever seen in
any airplane. Would be interested in knowing where you got that wood
also. I assume it doesn't grow locally up there in the Banana Belt.
RIck H.
> Clif and Greg and List:
>
> Clif, I am not familiar with Ferris Bueller, so you lost me on that
> one. But I will research it until I know what you mean. Or as my
> carpenter friends say " I can't smell what you are stepping in."
>
> Greg, I could not resist sending a picture of my cockpit panel. Yours
> is awesome looking. Your picture turned out a lot better than mine. I
> did notice the machine turning, the caning and the walnut stick grip.
> You can see my burl thru the "too" many instruments, but just for fun
> can you spot the garden hose, the British caulking gun parts or the
> K-Mart freezer bump rail.
>
> List: From now on I will try not to be a Piet repieter and will start a
> new message.
>
> Mike Luther
> Anchorage (Banana belt) Alaska
> NX1953M
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hanger space in the Phoenix Area |
I am a computer programmer/geek and ex-flight instructor and thought
the same as you at one time. Now I am TIG welding my controls. Just
order the plans and start easy by making a rib jib and just build some
ribs, will only cost you $100 to $200 bucks. You will know after the
4th or 5th rib whether you are cutout to move up to the elite ranks of
Piet Builder. If you decide its not something you want to do you can
hang the ribs you do complete in your office wall at the airport and
impress your flight students.
Rick H
wrote:
>
> DJ,
>
> I have not yet started my project, haven't even
> ordered the plans yet but am getting closer. Part of
> what keeps delaying me is the thought of building
> something more complicated than a door stop. I have
> spent my life as a computer programmer and as a flight
> instructor. Never really built anything.
>
> I currently have a hanger at the Goodyear Airport
> (GYR) and work at Glendale Airport (GEU) with a little
> work rearranging my hanger we could possibly store
> your pietenpol in my hanger until you bubbled to the
> top of the Falcon Field (FFZ) hanger list. I can be
> reached at 602-819-8359 if you want to talk.
>
> Mike
>
> PS Have the hanger to store a bag of parts that will
> someday be an Auster J1.
>
> __________________________________
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
What is the purpose of the safety strap that goes over the torque
tube? To keep the torque from bending up or sideways too much? Can't
find a thing on it in the archieves.
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | center section radios |
This question directed to Jack Phillips. I dont have your e_mail address or would
have sent this off line.
A few days ago you posted a pic of your wing center section with the boxes containing
transponder and such. I am very curious about this. Could you post more
detail? Do you leave the transponder in the On position and have another power
switch on the panel? What about VHF? Channging chanels?
This is a great use of space.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help finding a master cylinder |
I used a Piper Cherokee emergency brake master cyl. The assy has a hand lever.
One cyl controlls both wheels. With a steerable tailwheel I havent had the need
for individual brakes.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: John and Phyllis Smoyer
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 7:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Need help finding a master cylinder
Can anyone advise me on a good source for a brake master cylinder suitable for
a Piet? Thanks to everyone for the informative postings and images. I really
enjoy this group.
Best Regards,
John Smoyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "NEMuzzy" <list01(at)gourmetdamage.com> |
| Subject: | Wing rib brace location |
A simple question-
<>
When you build your ribs, does the diagonal brace at the rear go from the
bottom chord to the top of the rear strut (aswn in the plans and the full
size rib sheet), or from low on the rear spar to the top rib capstrip (as
shown on the Sky Scout rib plan, the BPA newletter sample, & the picture of
the three piece wing)? I have found pictures of ribs on assorted web sites
in each position.
Regards-
Norm Muzzy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety strap |
Rick,
Guess it's for if the front guy fights you for the controls, and the torque
tube breaks,,,OR the torque tube just breaks! It keeps the tube in
allignment (kind of) and you can get the plane down.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Safety strap
>
> What is the purpose of the safety strap that goes over the torque
> tube? To keep the torque from bending up or sideways too much? Can't
> find a thing on it in the archieves.
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Safety strap (Aileron torque tube) |
Rick,
The earlier F&G Manual plans do not include the safety strap, likely because
the aileron drive cables were attached to the rear control stick about 6"
above the torque tube and ran down to the lower longerons, and out along the
rear lift struts. This imposed a downward load on the torque tube, tending
to keep it in position.
The later drawings by Orrin Hoopman show the aileron drive cables attached
to a vee-type crank welded to the torque tube about halfway along its
length. Since these cables travel upward to the center section, they impose
an upward force on the torque tube. A failure of the front torque tube
attachment could allow the torque tube to swing upward, slackening the
aileron drive cables. Presumably, the safety strap would hold the torque
tube down enough to maintain some aileron control.
When I built my Air Camper 35 years ago, I installed the "safety strap"
according to the Hoopman plans. I had, and still have,a suspicion that there
was a good reason for it being shown on the later plans, and would recommend
using it.
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing rib brace location |
The 1933 plans have it going from the top of the rear spar to the rib bottom.
>
> A simple question-
>
> < some
> ribs, will only cost you $100 to $200 bucks. You will know after the
> 4th or 5th rib whether you are cutout to move up to the elite ranks of
> Piet Builder.>>
>
> When you build your ribs, does the diagonal brace at the rear go from the
> bottom chord to the top of the rear strut (aswn in the plans and the full
> size rib sheet), or from low on the rear spar to the top rib capstrip (as
> shown on the Sky Scout rib plan, the BPA newletter sample, & the picture of
> the three piece wing)? I have found pictures of ribs on assorted web sites
> in each position.
>
> Regards-
> Norm Muzzy
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: center section radios |
Jim Malley has had his radios up there for some time.
His plane appears in Mike's video.
Clif
Subject: Pietenpol-List: center section radios
This question directed to Jack Phillips. I dont have your e_mail address or
would have sent this off line.
A few days ago you posted a pic of your wing center section with the boxes containing
transponder and such.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing rib brace location |
It goes from the TOP of the rear spar downwards and
rearwards to the BOTTOM cap strip.
That's the way it's shown in my 1933 Flying Manual.
On p31 is an expanation of why the change was made.
Clif
> >
> When you build your ribs, does the diagonal brace at the rear go from the
> bottom chord to the top of the rear strut (aswn in the plans and the full
> size rib sheet), or from low on the rear spar to the top rib capstrip (as
> shown on the Sky Scout rib plan, the BPA newletter sample, & the picture
of
> the three piece wing)? I have found pictures of ribs on assorted web
sites
> in each position.
>
> Regards-
> Norm Muzzy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Burl wood for panel |
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 1:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Burl wood for panel
There's an outfit that goes by the name of CONSTANTINES that I bought some burhl
from to rework the dash of an old Jaguar. I was very satisfied with what I
got...paper thin but sufficient. If you have trouble getting to them with what
little I've given you, contact me off line...You have my email address...Carl
Vought
Can anyone recommend a good source for burl wood for the instrument panel? I
saw a great example of this at Oshkosh last summer and it really made the cockpit
standout.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help finding a master cylinder |
John: I used go-cart master cylinders. I added a page to my website- pics on
there.. If you want better pics I can send them to you this weekend.
Bert
http://bconoly.tripod.com/id17.html
----- Original Message -----
From: John and Phyllis Smoyer
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 8:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Need help finding a master cylinder
Can anyone advise me on a good source for a brake master cylinder suitable for
a Piet? Thanks to everyone for the informative postings and images. I really
enjoy this group.
Best Regards,
John Smoyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John and Phyllis Smoyer" <jpsmoyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help finding a master cylinder |
Bert: thanks very much. I'm a volunteer for an air museum, working on constructing
an Air Camper. I'll review these pics with the boss on Wednesday. We never
thought of go-cart brakes, but it sounds like a great idea. Thanks very
much for your input, and for yourr great web-site.
Your plane sure looks like a beauty. I clicked on the "what's a GN-1" link, but
didn't look like any info came up. So, what is a GN-1, as compared to an Air
Camper, anyway?
Thanks, and best regards,
John Smoyer
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Conoly
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need help finding a master cylinder
John: I used go-cart master cylinders. I added a page to my website- pics on
there.. If you want better pics I can send them to you this weekend.
Bert
http://bconoly.tripod.com/id17.html
----- Original Message -----
From: John and Phyllis Smoyer
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 8:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Need help finding a master cylinder
Can anyone advise me on a good source for a brake master cylinder suitable
for a Piet? Thanks to everyone for the informative postings and images. I really
enjoy this group.
Best Regards,
John Smoyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
I think I've figured out what my wood is.
It has all the characteristics of the catalpa
that I have used for carving in the past. I've
still got a fair bit left. The reddish veneer
I'm not sure of still.
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAsAhRT3qeHnLY7YxqvF+8FRhONxVT3PQIUVaLVOuQWPctdgwtQSqxvTyVbgWg=
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | safety strap-torque tube |
7.50 BARRACUDA_HEADER_FP56 RBL: Blacklist bl.spamcop
[Blocked - see <http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?209.240.207.249>]
Ditto what G. Hansen said, but also if you brazed the mounting strap on
to the torque tube bearing tubing as shown on the plans it's probably a
good idea to have the safety strap. Remember the discussions about
brazing 4130 a year or so ago? I left all of my brazed parts on the
plane. I figure since hundreds of Piets have been flown with brazed
parts(since Don Piet. is still selling old plans without corrections -
even safety notations, like "don't braze 4130"- ( mild steel ok to
braze) I think brazed parts are ok, but still, install the safety strap.
Leon S. Hutchinson Ks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
Whatever it is, it sure is pretty!
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: Clif Dawson [mailto:CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: burl
I think I've figured out what my wood is.
It has all the characteristics of the catalpa
that I have used for carving in the past. I've
still got a fair bit left. The reddish veneer
I'm not sure of still.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
The larger piece appears to be a high quality honduras cut mahogany
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Avai
lable!
| Subject: | Re: [ Bill Sayre ] : New Email List PhotoShare Avai |
lable!
Bill Sayre ---- Your Brodhead Fun video and music on the photo share was
GREAT !!!! Thank you !
For those who missed it, click on the link below, scroll down a bit and
then and double click on
the .wmv file.
Mike C.
>
>http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/bannerbill@att.net.01.15.2005/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Sometimes wonderful things happen when you least expect it. :-)
Corky, I lean in that direction also but not Honduras. True
Honduras was logged to extinction by the early part of the
last century. There are some very similiar mahogany's from
the same general region though.
Clif
Whatever it is, it sure is pretty!
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "NEMuzzy" <list01(at)gourmetdamage.com> |
DJ-
You might put an ad in the paper 'wanted to share hanger'. My plane is in
the hanger with another one. I know a person with a hanger at the Chandler
airport, and they are huge hangers. It would be no problem to put a second
plane in there.
-Norm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: safety strap-torque tube |
>since Don Piet. is still selling old plans without corrections - even
>safety notations, like "don't >braze 4130"- mild steel ok to braze
The plans do not need to have the warning because the plans do not call for
4130 steel. They actually call for mild steel. I think the only piece called
out as chro-molly is the rudder bar but I'd have to check on that. Most
people, my self included, choose to use 4130 but I welded mine because I
thought that was the best way to do it. However, I'd bet there are a bunch
of Piets out there with brazed 4130 (as well as millions of bike frames). I
do wish Don would put some kind of a notice on the plans that says, if you
choose to use 4130 steel check as to the appropriate welding or brazing
process. I think it would help a of people.
On a side note, did anyone else read the articles in Sport Aviation (I think
November and December 2004?) where the authors tested Oxy-Acetylene, TIG and
MIG welding processes with 4130. Read them at my Dads house and now he can't
find them again. As I recall they felt all three processes can be used but
MIG requires a bit more talent to get a good weld. They also recommended and
welding rod RS-80 I think it was. Any one else remember this?
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
<41E85EB5.2B3E9A96(at)gci.net> <00b901c4fac7$59d31c60$4e705118@dawsonaviation>
<013801c4fddc$1ff949c0$0100a8c0@Desktop>
| Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV
For some time, I've been interested in putting up my own, small, hanger,
just big enough for one Piet. So far, I've been unable to get the owner of
the airfield to assign me a space for it. The vendor that looks best to me
sells a Quansit type building, (which is available in a 30'X22' size) is
U.S. BUILDINGS in Boone, NC. They can be reached at 800/405-7501 and
www.usbuildingsdirect.com. Prices appear reasonable, especially when you
consider the resale value...Carl Vought
>
> hey guys.... been in Ireland all week just got back and am trying to
catch
> up to about 200 emails......
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
<41E85EB5.2B3E9A96(at)gci.net> <00b901c4fac7$59d31c60$4e705118@dawsonaviation>
<013801c4fddc$1ff949c0$0100a8c0@Desktop>
<001801c4fe4d$b7511de0$a170d618@knology.net>
report
I'm curious, what prices have you seen from usbuildingsdirct.com? I filled out
the form for a price list on their website, and even called them. They sent me
a brochure, but no prices.
Thanks!
Steve Ruse
Dallas, TX
Quoting Carl Vought :
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:05 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV
>
> For some time, I've been interested in putting up my own, small, hanger,
> just big enough for one Piet. So far, I've been unable to get the owner of
> the airfield to assign me a space for it. The vendor that looks best to me
> sells a Quansit type building, (which is available in a 30'X22' size) is
> U.S. BUILDINGS in Boone, NC. They can be reached at 800/405-7501 and
> www.usbuildingsdirect.com. Prices appear reasonable, especially when you
> consider the resale value...Carl Vought
>
>
> >
> > hey guys.... been in Ireland all week just got back and am trying to
> catch
> > up to about 200 emails......
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
<41E85EB5.2B3E9A96(at)gci.net> <00b901c4fac7$59d31c60$4e705118@dawsonaviation>
<013801c4fddc$1ff949c0$0100a8c0@Desktop>
<001801c4fe4d$b7511de0$a170d618@knology.net>
| Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
My Piet is the second project that I've housed in a fabric hanger. The Piet
has lived for the last couple of years in a "Cover-It" hanger. (20X30)
Just have to find a airfield that will let you put one up.
Both hangers have been through hurricanes, (or the part of the storm that we
got hit with) without damage.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:05 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV
>
> For some time, I've been interested in putting up my own, small, hanger,
> just big enough for one Piet. So far, I've been unable to get the owner
of
> the airfield to assign me a space for it. The vendor that looks best to me
> sells a Quansit type building, (which is available in a 30'X22' size) is
> U.S. BUILDINGS in Boone, NC. They can be reached at 800/405-7501 and
> www.usbuildingsdirect.com. Prices appear reasonable, especially when you
> consider the resale value...Carl Vought
>
>
> >
> > hey guys.... been in Ireland all week just got back and am trying to
> catch
> > up to about 200 emails......
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "NEMuzzy" <list01(at)gourmetdamage.com> |
| Subject: | Okoume BS-1088 Plywood Source Des Moines plus capstrip |
steamer
I just purchased some Okoume plywood from the folks at CedarTree in Des
Moines. This is a family shop, basically selling the materials out of their
garage. They are about a mile from the intersection of I35 and I80. Give
them a call to check inventory, and to make sure they will be around. They
indicated they would also cut sheets of material down to ship UPS, if that
was a need. I bought some 1/16 inch and 1/8 inch from them just to get
started.
http://www.cedartreeinc.com/
I also got the tip to use an electric teapot to make a steamer for the cap
strips. I bought a GE electric Teapot from Walmart, about $29. A piece of
1 inch PVC tubing fits the spout with just a bit of sanding, and I can steam
3 strips at one time. I pinched the steam switch tube shut (and TIGd it,
just because I can!) to keep the steam switch from turning the pot off. The
overtemp switch will trip after about 20 minutes, so you need to reset the
switch after letting it cool for a few minutes. One hour of steaming and
the douglas fir capstrips bent very easily over a forming block. This
amount of time matches quite nicely with the time required to pull a rib out
of the jig, put the new strips in, glue all the joints and splice plates.
-Norm
________________________________________________________________________________
capstrip steamer
| Subject: | Okoume BS-1088 Plywood Source Des Moines plus capstrip |
steamer
steamer
| From: | "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
Norm thanks for the heads-up. They are about 10 miles from my house.
Jack Textor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | More on the plane in the Deke Slayton Museum |
Thank you to Grant MacLaren for forwarding this article to me,
http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2005/01/16/news/z2plane_16.txt
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edwin Johnson <elj(at)shreve.net> |
| Subject: | Pientenpol-List: update on N74DV |
Hello Carl,
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
>
> the airfield to assign me a space for it. The vendor that looks best to me
> sells a Quansit type building, (which is available in a 30'X22' size) is
> U.S. BUILDINGS in Boone, NC. They can be reached at 800/405-7501 and
> www.usbuildingsdirect.com. Prices appear reasonable, especially when you
> consider the resale value...Carl Vought
I have a friend who has a building like this, either by the same vendor or
very similar, as a hanger at Page Airport just west of OK City. He built a
Hatz Biplane there and also has a PA-17 in the hanger. He has a regular
entrance door in the rear of the hanger and blocked off a portion there
for the workshop with standard sliding doors for the front entrance for
the planes. There are quite a few of these buildings on that airport.
I was extremely impressed with the building. One thing about that
location, the building will withstand the strong winds they get. The
concrete pad is poured with footing bolts installed. They actually put a
small scaffold on a pickup truck bed to construct it. You simply bolt it
together like an Erector set. :)
...Edwin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your
eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you
long to return."-- da Vinci ... www.shreve.net/~elj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I have been reading a book on making propellers. Just for comparisons, what size
prop do those flying with the Corvair engine use? Does the Corvair run at
about 100 hp? What is max rpm? What is the cruise speed you get?
I have a Rotec radial engine on order. According to this book, I may have ordered
a much too aggresive prop. The factory recommended a 72x55. I told them
I wanted a climb prop, but I'm not going to be towing banners or gliders.
Thanks
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
my Corvair has a 66x29 on it, which for a Corvair is considered a climb prop.
I'm not looking for fast cruise so I propped it for great climb.
The Corvair puts out anywhere from about 90-110hp depending on how you build it.
Max rpm in the Corvair is limited by the size of prop you use.... but I'm
going to redlinemine at about 3300.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 9:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: prop size
I have been reading a book on making propellers. Just for comparisons, what
size prop do those flying with the Corvair engine use? Does the Corvair run
at about 100 hp? What is max rpm? What is the cruise speed you get?
I have a Rotec radial engine on order. According to this book, I may have ordered
a much too aggresive prop. The factory recommended a 72x55. I told them
I wanted a climb prop, but I'm not going to be towing banners or gliders.
Thanks
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
Looking at the Rotec website I suspect that your prop will be close to
correct. Also remember it is way easier to cut a little off of the blades
if you have too much prop, impossible to add a little on if you don't have
enough. Also the corvair typically has the prop running at crankshaft
speed where as the Rotec has a 2-3 gear box. I suspect the factory has
made a good recomendation.
Looks like a really nice engine.
Les
>I have been reading a book on making propellers. Just for comparisons,
>what size prop do those flying with the Corvair engine use? Does the
>Corvair run at about 100 hp? What is max rpm? What is the cruise speed
>you get?
>I have a Rotec radial engine on order. According to this book, I may have
>ordered a much too aggresive prop. The factory recommended a 72x55. I
>told them I wanted a climb prop, but I'm not going to be towing banners
>or gliders.
>Thanks
>Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Thanks les &DJ
I'm trying to just get an idea if the guide in the book I have is accurate. It
indicates that a 72x55 will give me 107 mph at 2450 rpm prop speed. Yes, I can
throttle back for cruise and use the power for climb.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Schubert
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: prop size
Looking at the Rotec website I suspect that your prop will be close to correct.
Also remember it is way easier to cut a little off of the blades if you have
too much prop, impossible to add a little on if you don't have enough. Also
the corvair typically has the prop running at crankshaft speed where as the Rotec
has a 2-3 gear box. I suspect the factory has made a good recomendation.
Looks like a really nice engine.
Les
I have been reading a book on making propellers. Just for comparisons, what
size prop do those flying with the Corvair engine use? Does the Corvair run
at about 100 hp? What is max rpm? What is the cruise speed you get?
I have a Rotec radial engine on order. According to this book, I may have
ordered a much too aggresive prop. The factory recommended a 72x55. I told them
I wanted a climb prop, but I'm not going to be towing banners or gliders.
Thanks
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chad Johnson" <flynpiper(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Saw dust is Flying |
Just a note to say that after years of dreaming and "saying" I am going to start
building a piet, I actually built my table today. I know it is not an "actual"
part of the airplane but I have to start some where. I am just happy to
see some physical progress. I will be ready to order wood for the fin and rudder
as soon as I get a quote back from the supplier. My questions for all those
"experienced" builders is this. What tool or tools would you say was the most
handy to have around during your building process? Any opinions on Aeropoxy
glue? Any and all sugestions would be very much appreciated. Thank you.
Chad Johnson, McPherson Kansas.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
<000e01c5002c$d0c52830$0600a8c0@laptop>
Which book?
Here's an interesting little program to play with;
http://www.nicon.org/chapter328/PropDesign/
Clif
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: prop size
Thanks les &DJ
I'm trying to just get an idea if the guide in the book I have is accurate.
It indicates that a 72x55 will give me 107 mph at 2450 rpm prop speed. Yes, I
can throttle back for cruise and use the power for climb.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Ohio Weather Prediction |
Blame the Ruskies, we just wave what we don't need
on through.
They couldn't get us with ICBM's....... :-) :-)
Clif
>
>> We have a special shippment coming to ya'll on Sunday direct from our
> neighbors in Canada to Louisianna so don't get too comfortable.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Chad! I started building my Piet back in November and have the fuselage
pretty well framed up and am working on the turtledeck stringers.
One of the most useful tools for me have been the electric, laser-guided
miter saw that my wife got me for Christmas a couple years ago -- I told her I
wanted to do some cove molding around the house, which I did. Of course, I was
also thinking a little more long term, if you get my drift! It has been very
useful in accurately cutting all the fuselage uprights and crossbraces with all
those different angles. Obviously you can make all those cuts with a good sharp
hand saw, too, but if you can get an electric laser-guided miter saw, you
won't be disappointed. (Hey, if laser-guided is good enough for Al Queda, it's
good enough for us Piet builders, too!) A bench vise is good too for when you do
need/want to make hand saw cuts.
I also have a hand-me-down table saw that I've been using to cut my spruce
into the various dimension strips -- I bought my spruce in 20-foot long 6-inch
wide, 1-inch thick planks from McCormick's Lumber in Madison, WI. Amazingly I
still have all my fingers -- as originally attached. The docs can do miracles
now and reattach all kinds of various body parts, but I'd just as soon not go
through that exercise -- besides, it would set back the building schedule!
I also went to an auction last summer and picked up a like-new combination
belt sander/disc sander for about $40. That has been very useful for smoothing
parts and taking off just a little to get a perfect fit. At the same auction
and for about the same money I picked up an also like-new Craftsman table router
-- I haven't used it yet but am thinking I will use it for forming my own
vertical and horizontal stabilizer leading edge material.
Other than that, a large T-square and carpenters chalk line for keeping
everything square and for laying down straight when drawing out the fuselage sides
on the bench. The top longeron has to be perfectly straight.
I also picked up a neat little wood chisel -- it's not only a chisel but on
one side it is a flat rasp and the opposite side is a rounded rasp -- handy for
trimming off little blobs of epoxy that may drip here and there and that you
may miss when wiping up excess. (My wife told me I should just leave that big
C-clamp that accidentally got glued to the fuse top a week ago!) Also lots of
sandpaper and various blocks of wood to use as sanding blocks.
Lots of light -- I had a couple fluorescent shop lights in the basement where
I'm building the fuse. These were up by the firewall end, with a regular
light bulb down by the tail. But I picked up another shop light at Home Depot for
about $10 and hung that one over the tail end -- what a difference! My feeling
is that you can't have too much light (especially at my age-- I didn't used
to need reading glasses until I built that darn ship model a couple years ago!)
A handheld sabre/jig saw for cutting out large plywood pieces. I find that a
blade for cutting sheet metal works well for cutting aircraft ply without
splintering the backside all to heck. I also have a small bench jig saw which
come in handy. I don't have a band saw, but that would serve very well in a wide
variety of uses -- that's probably the one saw I really should have...but I've
done okay without so far...
Have fun building! And stay tuned to this list -- I've learned a lot from the
real experts on this list! Great bunch of folks!
Anyway, I hope this helps.
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
PS -- Still snowing here this fine Saturday morning -- not a good day to go
out but that's okay 'cause I'm building my Piet in the basement!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PIETLARS29(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Saw dust is Flying |
Re: 'handy' tools,
A sander, bench mount, nice to have a
belt/disc model
A band saw
A drill press and a hand type electric
drill
Note, these are not absolute requirements, but sure do make life easier and
more enjoyable
micrometer (1" is fine); and an inside/outside caliper,(plastic one is OK).
These are what I call 'tools of precision' are usefull in setting up a saw and
other tools.
Have at it, the fun ( and tears) are yet to come).
Lou Larsen Sill going on a 9+ year Piet project
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <TWINBOOM(at)msn.com> |
Chad,
> There will always be naysayers in anything you or anyone else does. That
does not matter. What matters is that you follow your dream at your pace. I have
also been "at it" for about four years. Since I started I have moved, my wife
has had many health issues ect. Today I am finishing up the drywall hanging
in the garage at our new place. I have all the fuse wood, all the rib wood, all
the tail group wood, and I have my Corvair engine all tore down. Part of my
plan hasalways been a clean place to work and a place for everything. If you
build clean, it just seems to me you will end up with a safer plane. Not to say
a dirty/unkept shop is going to produce an unsafe plane, but for me I want it
all to be organized. I've always been that way. Good Luck, and congratulations
on getting started. 909-790-0530
>
> Doug Blackburn
> Doug & Elizabeth Blackburn
> Yucaipa California
> www.inlandsloperebels.com
> W W's Conversion Manual 3202, 5782
> www.flycorvair.com 20
> after years of dreaming and "saying" I am going to start building a piet,
I actually built my table today. Chad Johnson, McPherson Kansas.
Doug & Elizabeth Blackburn
Yucaipa California
www.inlandsloperebels.com
W W's Conversion Manual 3202, 5782
www.flycorvair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Saw dust is Flying |
When it comes time to make your metal parts I would add a good bench
vice (bending metal fittings and squishing metal tubing) and an angle
grinder (around $40 to $50) for cutting metal sheet and tubing (unless
you want to spend the money on a metal cutting band saw).
wrote:
>
> Re: 'handy' tools,
>
> A sander, bench mount, nice to have a
> belt/disc model
> A band saw
> A drill press and a hand type electric
> drill
>
> Note, these are not absolute requirements, but sure do make life easier
> and more enjoyable
>
> micrometer (1" is fine); and an inside/outside caliper,(plastic one is OK).
> These are what I call 'tools of precision' are usefull in setting up a
> saw and other tools.
>
> Have at it, the fun ( and tears) are yet to come).
>
> Lou Larsen Sill going on a 9+ year Piet project
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chad Johnson" <flynpiper(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Tool Advice and Aeropoxy |
Thanks for all the advice on tools and building. So far I have most of the tools
needed with exception of a band saw.
Any opinions or experience with Aeropoxy glue? My wood supplier uses Aeropoxy
for his own work, he has it in stock and the cost seems to be the same as
T88.
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hanger space in the Phoenix Area |
Mike,
just saw this message.... (still trying to catch up from my vacation) I'll
certainly keep it in mind! I'm going to try another round of hangar
searching at CHD and FFZ in a few weeks.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Volckmann" <mike_cfi(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hanger space in the Phoenix Area
> DJ,
> I currently have a hanger at the Goodyear Airport
> (GYR) and work at Glendale Airport (GEU) with a little
> work rearranging my hanger we could possibly store
> your pietenpol in my hanger until you bubbled to the
> top of the Falcon Field (FFZ) hanger list. I can be
> reached at 602-819-8359 if you want to talk.
>
> Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
<00d001c50057$003c3e30$4e705118@dawsonaviation>
Cliff
I have "Propeller Making For The Amateur" by Eric Clutton.
Thanks, I'll take a look at that web site.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 1:50 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: prop size
Which book?
Here's an interesting little program to play with;
http://www.nicon.org/chapter328/PropDesign/
Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Saw dust is Flying |
Chad,
The others told you most of the tools you will need to
build with. You will also need to buy a gas welding
rig (I bought one at auction real cheap) to build your
metal parts with. The most useful tools I have used
were the table saw for cutting out my wood pieces (I
bought spruce from the local lumber yard, 2 X 6 planks
in different length, to save tons of money, the band
saw, the drill press, the miter saw, and the bench
sander. The other tools are all hand tools that most
everyone owns.
Once you get your jigs set up, things will go quickly
and you will see progress.
Best luck and have fun.
Doc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | cruise speed and fabric work |
To answer one of Dick Navratil's questions that didn't seem to get answered,
the Corvair-powered Piets (well, the ones with the William Wynne conversion
and no blower motor) seem to cruise a bit faster than the A-65 and Ford
powered ones. Not to say that they are comfortable cruising at those higher
speeds, but that they can do so with the extra horsepower. William's plane
would climb out at the airspeed that my A-65 Aircamper cruises at (65 MPH),
and would cruise at 100 MPH if you firewalled it and didn't care about the
ride or the fuel consumption. I think he normally cruised it at 70-75 MPH
which was comfortably throttled back.
Certainly the climb in the Corvair Aircampers far exceeds the 100 feet per
hour stated for that vintage Pietenpol in the museum-!
And as long as everybody is hunkered down, snowed in, blown out, frozen in
place, mudslidden, flooded, or otherwise grounded- I'd like to know how big
a deal fabric covering is. I've watched the Stits video (years ago) and it
doesn't seem too difficult, but have never done it. I don't have the
Poly-Tak, the dopes, iron, or the other stuff (but can scrounge or borrow
what I need)... just want to make sure it's not too difficult to do myself.
I need to re-cover the vertical stabilizer and also patch a few spots in the
fuselage here and there.
Thanks for any comments.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Volckmann <mike_cfi(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hanger space in the Phoenix Area |
DJ,
I understand GYR is a long way from the east valley.
My mother lives just north of IWA.
Currently I am considering starting either a Fokker
Dr-1 replica or a Pietenpol. Probably end up being
the Dr-1 replica.
Mike
--- DJ Vegh wrote:
>
>
> Mike,
>
> just saw this message.... (still trying to catch up
> from my vacation) I'll
> certainly keep it in mind! I'm going to try another
> round of hangar
> searching at CHD and FFZ in a few weeks.
>
> DJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Volckmann" <mike_cfi(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 12:01 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hanger space in the Phoenix
> Area
>
>
> > DJ,
> > I currently have a hanger at the Goodyear Airport
> > (GYR) and work at Glendale Airport (GEU) with a
> little
> > work rearranging my hanger we could possibly store
> > your pietenpol in my hanger until you bubbled to
> the
> > top of the Falcon Field (FFZ) hanger list. I can
> be
> > reached at 602-819-8359 if you want to talk.
> >
> > Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cruise speed and fabric work |
Thanks Oscar for that input, that's exactly what was looking for. I'll have
115 hp but I dont want to cruise too fast, but after having flown the Piet
on some hot days, I need to climb at better than 100 feet per hour. I have
received some warnings from guys in my EAA chapter that the stall
characteristics will drastically change with more hp and stol prop.
Now for your question. I really enjoyed to covering. It isn't hard at all.
Do the tail feathers first of course. It goes so fast that it's almost a
let down, You spent so much time getting to that point and in no time it's
done. The rib stitching is the biggest chore. Fabric stretching and
applying the tapes are really easy.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cruise speed and fabric work
>
>
> To answer one of Dick Navratil's questions that didn't seem to get
> answered, the Corvair-powered Piets (well, the ones with the William Wynne
> conversion and no blower motor) seem to cruise a bit faster than the A-65
> and Ford powered ones. Not to say that they are comfortable cruising at
> those higher speeds, but that they can do so with the extra horsepower.
> William's plane would climb out at the airspeed that my A-65 Aircamper
> cruises at (65 MPH), and would cruise at 100 MPH if you firewalled it and
> didn't care about the ride or the fuel consumption. I think he normally
> cruised it at 70-75 MPH which was comfortably throttled back.
>
> Certainly the climb in the Corvair Aircampers far exceeds the 100 feet per
> hour stated for that vintage Pietenpol in the museum-!
>
> And as long as everybody is hunkered down, snowed in, blown out, frozen in
> place, mudslidden, flooded, or otherwise grounded- I'd like to know how
> big a deal fabric covering is. I've watched the Stits video (years ago)
> and it doesn't seem too difficult, but have never done it. I don't have
> the Poly-Tak, the dopes, iron, or the other stuff (but can scrounge or
> borrow what I need)... just want to make sure it's not too difficult to do
> myself. I need to re-cover the vertical stabilizer and also patch a few
> spots in the fuselage here and there.
>
> Thanks for any comments.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I've been using the West System T-88 epoxy. Very easy to work with. One thing
I found is that the plastic lids from the plastic coffee "cans" are ideal for
mixing epoxy -- will hold up to three squirts of resin and hardener at a
time. Hardened waste epoxy will simply snap right out and you can use the lid
again -- or if it gets too old and grungy just throw it away. I keep several in
the shop...and the rest of the coffee containers are handy, too.
I suppose one of these days nice tin coffee cans will show up in the antique
shops, just like the old tin and even cardboard motor oil cans...
Working on aft fuselage turtledeck today...
Fred B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Saw dust is Flying |
As for tools, the ones that I used a lot were a good 6" belt sander and a
cheap metal cutting bandsaw (about $200 from Grizzly).
Don't know anything about Aeropoxy. I mostly used Resorcinol, with a little
bit of T-88 in places that would show. In my recent forced landing, none of
the glue joints broke - the wood fractured outside of the joint. Resorcinol
is a pain in the winter, though, due to its required bonding and curing
temperatire of 70 F +. I'm waiting right now for the heaters to bring the
temperature in my basement up to 70 so I can glue together my new
stabilizer. It was 14 F last night and has warmed up to a balmy 25 F so
far today.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chad Johnson
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Saw dust is Flying
Just a note to say that after years of dreaming and "saying" I am going to
start building a piet, I actually built my table today. I know it is not
an "actual" part of the airplane but I have to start some where. I am just
happy to see some physical progress. I will be ready to order wood for the
fin and rudder as soon as I get a quote back from the supplier. My
questions for all those "experienced" builders is this. What tool or tools
would you say was the most handy to have around during your building
process? Any opinions on Aeropoxy glue? Any and all sugestions would be
very much appreciated. Thank you.
Chad Johnson, McPherson Kansas.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Dick wrote-
>Do the tail feathers first of course. It goes so fast that it's almost a
>let down, You spent so much time getting to that point and in no time
>it's done. The rib stitching is the biggest chore. Fabric stretching and
>applying the tapes are really easy.
Thanks, but- all I'm doing are repairs! As you'll recall, this is the
repair of NX41CC after its ignominious nose-over incident on Veterans Day.
There is the vertical stabilizer to re-cover, plus several areas where the
fabric has had to be opened up to access various fittings. Sad to say,
unless I re-cover the whole airframe, this bird is going to look like it has
some experience in theater (of war), with field repairs! I'm going to try
to do a good job on the paint matching, but patches will show upon close
examination.
My thought it to apply round patches to the areas we've had to open up, and
to use pinked edges on the round patches. As I understand it, I'll need to
sand back the paint on the underlying fabric to get to bare fabric, then
Poly-Tak the patch in place and go from there. If this is the wrong
approach or if there are easier ways to do spot repairs, please advise. I
also assume everything will be the standard weight fabric (2.7 oz.),
although some have used the lightweight fabric for the tail surfaces. I
believe Ernie Moreno told me he used the old HS90X fabric to re-cover the
tail surfaces on his airplane to shave a bit of weight off the tail.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Oscar,
I'm doing the same thing to my Pietenpol after its forced landing. A couple
of questions come to mind:
1. What paint was used on it originally? If a polyurethane paint was used
(like I did on mine), the old paint will have to be sanded off - and that is
a major pain. If PolyTone was used, MEK will remove it easily. I suspect
MEK would take butyrate dope off as well, but I have no experience with
that.
2. How long are the cuts in the original fabric? If the cut is 8" or less,
the overlap only needs to be 1" when you glue the new fabric down with
PolyTak. If more than 8", you need a 2" overlap. I cover the overlap with
2" pinked tape as well.
3. On the vertical stab, you will probably have to use bias tapes to tape
around the curve at the top. Just follow the directions in the polyfiber
manual.
If you have questions, contact the folks at PolyFiber. They are very good
about answering technical questions. http://www.polyfiber.com/
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fabric work
Dick wrote-
>Do the tail feathers first of course. It goes so fast that it's almost a
>let down, You spent so much time getting to that point and in no time
>it's done. The rib stitching is the biggest chore. Fabric stretching and
>applying the tapes are really easy.
Thanks, but- all I'm doing are repairs! As you'll recall, this is the
repair of NX41CC after its ignominious nose-over incident on Veterans Day.
There is the vertical stabilizer to re-cover, plus several areas where the
fabric has had to be opened up to access various fittings. Sad to say,
unless I re-cover the whole airframe, this bird is going to look like it has
some experience in theater (of war), with field repairs! I'm going to try
to do a good job on the paint matching, but patches will show upon close
examination.
My thought it to apply round patches to the areas we've had to open up, and
to use pinked edges on the round patches. As I understand it, I'll need to
sand back the paint on the underlying fabric to get to bare fabric, then
Poly-Tak the patch in place and go from there. If this is the wrong
approach or if there are easier ways to do spot repairs, please advise. I
also assume everything will be the standard weight fabric (2.7 oz.),
although some have used the lightweight fabric for the tail surfaces. I
believe Ernie Moreno told me he used the old HS90X fabric to re-cover the
tail surfaces on his airplane to shave a bit of weight off the tail.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
You don't want to let your sandpaper get into the fabric at all. Once those fibers
are cut with sandpaper, they have lost strength. Also, the place will never
seem to fill with your finishing materials. This is the reason for using
dope on fabric. If it was dope to begin with, there is no need to sand thru the
dope. Just lightly sand to scuff the surface. The dope will soften again with
application of new dope and thus blend in. If the original finish is polyurethane
or enamel, its not that simple. Lightly sand and then mask off the area
to be painted using the same type of paint. The trouble is, you can't get
a blending effect and you end up with a mask line. Also...watch out for sanding
over rib stitches abd structure. It doesn't take much pressure and your sandpaper
will get into the fabric.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
Hey Piet listers,
I'm back on the list as we have our computer set up in the motor home parked in
the hangar. Have about 1/2 my Piet parts in the hangar, the rest should be here
soon. Will be back to work on the Piet after some electric and allot of plumbing
in the hangar and building the apartment, so maybe next fall.
Dick, Jack and Bert congratulations on your projects becoming aircraft. Oscar and
Jack sorry to read about the off field landings, glad only airplanes were hurt.
A guy on the field here is building a Bearhawk and he told me Bob Barrows the designer
of that aircraft is selling his A model Peit.
Short fuselage(don't know if he means flyer and gilder or 1934 plans), red and
silver, no breaks, tail skid, wire wheels with straight axle, empty weight 630,
the A has pressure lube and aluminum head. Aircraft has 80 hours. Barrows says
it flys straight and good, my contact here whos judgment I trust says it looks
like good workmanship. Barrows will deliver within 500 miles from Fincastle
VA. $12,000.00 Telephone for Barrows 540 473-3661.
Hales Landing the airpark I live at is now on the Cincinnati sectional, 12 miles
south on Parkersburg WV. Once the Wx gets better Piet listers please stop by.
Skip
Cinda + Skip Gadd
csfog(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet for sale |
Is that "breaks" or "brakes"?
Might make a difference.
----- Original Message -----
[...]
selling his A model Peit.
Short fuselage(don't know if he means flyer and gilder or 1934 plans), red and
silver, no breaks, tail skid, wire wheels with straight axle, empty weight 630,
the A has pressure lube and aluminum head. Aircraft has 80 hours.
[...]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Another Piet, actually a GN-1 for sale |
0.37 FORGED_QUALCOMM_TAGS QUALCOMM mailers can't send HTML in this format
1.15 OBFUSCATING_COMMENT HTML comments which obfuscate text
0.29 HG_HORMONE Talks about hormones for human growth
Can be seen if you search "Pietenpol" under barnstormers.com
Photo enclosed.
Mike C.
PIETENPOL =95 $10,000 =95 COME AND GET IT =95 Pietenpol GN1-Aircamper
Expermential class, built in 1981 flown regularly except the past year,
only flown twice in past 12 month, That't the reason for the sale, Have to
many airplanes. Wife says 2 is enough. C-85 continantial engine less that
600 TTA&E. Needs annual, but it is airworthy. Have all log books and
records since new Price $10,000 without annual Jan. 18, 2005 call
731-225-5475 or 731-693-4041 West Tennessee. =95 Contact James Fairchild -
located Pinson, TN Usa =95 Telephone: 731-988-5288 or 731-424-5426 =95 Posted
January 20, 2005 =95 Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser =95 Recommend This
Ad to a Friend =95 Send a Message
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet for sale |
The Piet has no brakes. No breaks as far as I know.
Skip
Is that "breaks" or "brakes"?
Might make a difference.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another Piet, actually a GN-1 for sale |
report
I called and spoke to the owner of this one for about 30 minutes on Saturday.
Sounds like it is a good airplane. However, he e-mailed me this morning and
said that someone came out and looked at the plane Sunday, walked around it
once, and said he'd take it pending a pre-buy. Still, no cash has traded hands
as far as I know, but it might already be spoken for.
Steve Ruse
Dallas, TX
Quoting Michael D Cuy :
> Can be seen if you search "Pietenpol" under barnstormers.com
>
> Photo enclosed.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> PIETENPOL $10,000 COME AND GET IT Pietenpol GN1-Aircamper
> Expermential class, built in 1981 flown regularly except the past year,
> only flown twice in past 12 month, That't the reason for the sale, Have to
> many airplanes. Wife says 2 is enough. C-85 continantial engine less that
> 600 TTA&E. Needs annual, but it is airworthy. Have all log books and
> records since new Price $10,000 without annual Jan. 18, 2005 call
> 731-225-5475 or 731-693-4041 West Tennessee. Contact James Fairchild -
> located Pinson, TN Usa Telephone: 731-988-5288 or 731-424-5426 Posted
> January 20, 2005 Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser Recommend This
> Ad to a Friend Send a Message
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
report
A few months ago I posted asking people for leads on GN-1s for sale. Several
people e-mailed me, and DJ sent me some information on a Pietenpol he had seen
in Indiana. I called and spoke with the owner in December, scheduled a pre-buy
inspection, and then went to see the plane for myself when I was on Christmas
vacation. I just got off the phone with the owner, and agreed to purchase the
plane! Now as soon as the weather warms up in Indiana, I'll be going to get
it. Hopefully it won't be late March before I get a decent weekend...I'm
waiting for a few days of forty degree temps in Indiana to make the trip home
in my first airplane. Needless to say, sitting at work every day waiting for
spring is torture...
Steve Ruse
Future owner of N6383J
Dallas, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andimaxd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New owner... |
In a message dated 1/24/2005 6:32:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
steve(at)wotelectronics.com writes:
...I'm
waiting for a few days of forty degree temps in Indiana to make the trip home
in my first airplane.
Steve,
This is good news, and good luck with your new acquisition. It appears that
you fall under TACO jurisdiction, being located in the Dallas, TX. area.
You will need to talk to Sterling about that. We should plan a get together
sometime soon, I'm sure we need to have a TACO meeting for the occasion...in
the past we have met at the Purple Cow, and some other undisclosed locations.
Let us know if you need any assistance with this endeavor.
Max Davis
Arlington, TX.
817.516.1116 (H)
817.229.9136 (M)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New owner... |
glad to hear you bought that plane. It's a great little plane that the
owner took good care of. Did you happen to notice the white/green
T-craft in the hangar when you went to see the GN-1? Thats the T-craft my
cousin owns and I get to fly every August.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New owner...
>
>
> A few months ago I posted asking people for leads on GN-1s for sale.
> Several
> people e-mailed me, and DJ sent me some information on a Pietenpol he had
> seen
> in Indiana. I called and spoke with the owner in December, scheduled a
> pre-buy
> inspection, and then went to see the plane for myself when I was on
> Christmas
> vacation. I just got off the phone with the owner, and agreed to purchase
> the
> plane! Now as soon as the weather warms up in Indiana, I'll be going to
> get
> it. Hopefully it won't be late March before I get a decent weekend...I'm
> waiting for a few days of forty degree temps in Indiana to make the trip
> home
> in my first airplane. Needless to say, sitting at work every day waiting
> for
> spring is torture...
>
> Steve Ruse
> Future owner of N6383J
> Dallas, TX
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New owner... |
Steve,
Congratulations! Best of luck with your new bird. I hope to see it and meet
you sometime soon. Max is right. We need to plan a TACO meeting soon. I
need to come up anyway so I can retrieve my dad's nicopress swaging tool from
Jim Markle. Also, we plan to have another Tick Hill TACO gathering this spring
sometime. So maybe you can bring your plane down then. In the mean
time....Happy Low and Slow flying.
Terry Bowden
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New owner... |
Steve,
Congratulations! Best of luck with your new bird. I hope to see it and meet
you sometime soon. Max is right. We need to plan a TACO meeting soon. I
need to come up anyway so I can retrieve my dad's nicopress swaging tool from
Jim Markle. Also, we plan to have another Tick Hill TACO gathering this spring
sometime. So maybe you can bring your plane down then. In the mean
time....Happy Low and Slow flying.
Terry Bowden
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Next TACO meeting to honor Steve Ruse |
Actually the subject line should read... Next TACO meeting to honor and
induct Steve Ruse and gawk at his new Texas Air Camper...
As soon as Steve has an idea of when he will have his Air Camper in Texas,
and at a time convenient to him, let's have a meeting. Maybe we can tie this
into Mike Cuy's visit. Maybe Corky can swing by? Maybe Oscar will have his
repairs done and can meet us at a location between San Antonio and Dallas if there
isn't a Presidential TFR. Maybe some other Yankees other than Mike can visit?
Just a thought.
Sterling
5TA6
NOTAMS. Fresh cow chips on runway, land at your own risk.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 1/24/05 11:13:57 AM Central Standard Time,
csfog(at)earthlink.net writes:
Hales Landing the airpark I live at is now on the Cincinnati sectional, 12
miles south on Parkersburg WV. Once the Wx gets better Piet listers please stop
by.
Skip
Skip,
Great to hear you're back on the list. While I was at Marshall Co. Airport
during August '04, in W Va, I got to the point of flight planning a day trip
with the position and cooridnates you gave me at Brodhead, and with my 26 yr old
son in the front pit. Had everything set to go. I don't remember if you
weren't there, or it was weather that kept us from setting off. I was really
looking forward to making that flight...We'll make it next time through !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
Oscar,
I have oil based enamel Aluminum Rust-oleum on my plane, for the UV
protection, and oil based Red Devil Red, for the trim. The paint is holding up
very
well. For the repairs I have done, I have been fairly successful by using duct
tape to remove most of the paint, down to the fabric. Carefully test small
areas. Experiment using the duct tape right on unsanded paint, or use fine sand
paper to remove the gloss, clean the dust off and press the duct tape on, and
RIP off the paint, leaving reletively clean fabric. This probably wouldn't
work with Dope. I finished up cleaning the fabric with plenty of clean rags,
and MEK wearing rubber gloves. Remove the paint, and clean the fabric before
you cut the fabric, or the loose edges are much more difficult to clean. Like
Terry said, be very carefull not to sand into any fibers. 1" to 2" overlap
for the patch, using poly tac, and even blend the edges away with you fingers
and the glue. Finish blending the edges with an iron at temperatures toward the
lower end of the range. You should be able to blend in paint right up to the
patch, and make the patch almost disappear. To save weight on the empenage, I
used 1.8 oz fabric. It's also easier to use the lighter fabric, however,
your patch should be the same weight as what it is covered with. Fabric repair
is not very difficult. Matching the paint will probably be your biggest
challenge, however, repairs give 'er some character !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
Hey DJ,
Thanks a lot for helping me out, I wouldn't have found it without your help!
I've been meaning to e-mail you since your post about your hangar issues. I
sure hope you can find a solution, I want to see you fly your plane one day.
I'd hate to see you get rid of it. I've spent the last six months looking
over your site, trying to learn as much as I can, it is packed with good
information and a lot of great pictures.
I didn't get to look at the Tcraft when I was there. We all night from
Minneapolis, got to South Bend at about 8AM, spent an hour looking at the
plane, and then headed out. I was dog tired and it was about 3*F, way too
cold for me! Once I got done looking at the plane there wasn't much else on
my mind.
If you ever make it out this way, be sure to send me an e-mail or something,
I'd be glad to take you up for a while!
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New owner...
glad to hear you bought that plane. It's a great little plane that the
owner took good care of. Did you happen to notice the white/green
T-craft in the hangar when you went to see the GN-1? Thats the T-craft my
cousin owns and I get to fly every August.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New owner...
>
>
> A few months ago I posted asking people for leads on GN-1s for sale.
> Several
> people e-mailed me, and DJ sent me some information on a Pietenpol he had
> seen
> in Indiana. I called and spoke with the owner in December, scheduled a
> pre-buy
> inspection, and then went to see the plane for myself when I was on
> Christmas
> vacation. I just got off the phone with the owner, and agreed to purchase
> the
> plane! Now as soon as the weather warms up in Indiana, I'll be going to
> get
> it. Hopefully it won't be late March before I get a decent weekend...I'm
> waiting for a few days of forty degree temps in Indiana to make the trip
> home
> in my first airplane. Needless to say, sitting at work every day waiting
> for
> spring is torture...
>
> Steve Ruse
> Future owner of N6383J
> Dallas, TX
>
>
--
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
--
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Next TACO meeting to honor Steve Ruse |
That sounds like fun Sterling, I can't wait to get it back here and spend
spring, summer, and fall burning Avgas. I'll have the plane here ASAWA (As
Soon As Weather Allows). I'd be glad to drop down into the hill country
once I get it here, there is some great barbeque to be had down there.
Thanks for the welcome everyone...I can't wait to meet more of you. Seems
like a great group.
Later this spring I plan on buying some wood and fabric and re-creating the
vertical and horizontal stabs for a Pietenpol, just to learn more about
their construction. Who knows, maybe one day I'll find time to build an
entire Piet.
Steve
Dallas, TX
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 8:19 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Next TACO meeting to honor Steve Ruse
Actually the subject line should read... Next TACO meeting to honor and
induct Steve Ruse and gawk at his new Texas Air Camper...
As soon as Steve has an idea of when he will have his Air Camper in Texas,
and at a time convenient to him, let's have a meeting. Maybe we can tie this
into Mike Cuy's visit. Maybe Corky can swing by? Maybe Oscar will have his
repairs done and can meet us at a location between San Antonio and Dallas if
there isn't a Presidential TFR. Maybe some other Yankees other than Mike can
visit?
Just a thought.
Sterling
5TA6
NOTAMS. Fresh cow chips on runway, land at your own risk.
--
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet for sale |
Hey Skip
Great to hear from you again. Hope to se you at SNF again.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Cinda Gadd
To: Pietenpol
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 11:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet for sale
Hey Piet listers,
I'm back on the list as we have our computer set up in the motor home parked
in the hangar. Have about 1/2 my Piet parts in the hangar, the rest should be
here soon. Will be back to work on the Piet after some electric and allot of plumbing
in the hangar and building the apartment, so maybe next fall.
Dick, Jack and Bert congratulations on your projects becoming aircraft. Oscar
and Jack sorry to read about the off field landings, glad only airplanes were
hurt.
A guy on the field here is building a Bearhawk and he told me Bob Barrows the
designer of that aircraft is selling his A model Peit.
Short fuselage(don't know if he means flyer and gilder or 1934 plans), red and
silver, no breaks, tail skid, wire wheels with straight axle, empty weight 630,
the A has pressure lube and aluminum head. Aircraft has 80 hours. Barrows
says it flys straight and good, my contact here whos judgment I trust says it
looks like good workmanship. Barrows will deliver within 500 miles from Fincastle
VA. $12,000.00 Telephone for Barrows 540 473-3661.
Hales Landing the airpark I live at is now on the Cincinnati sectional, 12 miles
south on Parkersburg WV. Once the Wx gets better Piet listers please stop
by.
Skip
Cinda + Skip Gadd
csfog(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | TACO induction gathering |
Well, I hardly qualify for anything since I haven't yet gotten my Piet in
the air, but here's an idea. There is a place at the Gillespie County
Airport in Fredricksburg (the Hill Country of Texas) where they have
renovated an old hangar and turned it into a hotel and somewhat of a museum.
It's called the "Hangar Hotel", info at
http://www.swaviator.com/html/issueMJ04/HangarHotel.html , and could perhaps
be persuaded to provide a special rate if a half-dozen or more TACOs were to
book in an event with planes flying in. I believe they are trying to
attract the "classic" crowd such as Piets anyway.
It may warrant a field trip to investigate what they have in the beer
cooler. I might have to persuade Sterling to help me investigate.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | TACO induction gathering |
Sign me up. We might organize a group from North Texas
to go to the Hill Country.
Mike King
TACO Squadron
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Oscar Zuniga
Subject: Pietenpol-List: TACO induction gathering
Well, I hardly qualify for anything since I haven't yet gotten my
Piet in
the air, but here's an idea. There is a place at the Gillespie
County
Airport in Fredricksburg (the Hill Country of Texas) where they
have
renovated an old hangar and turned it into a hotel and somewhat
of a museum.
It's called the "Hangar Hotel", info at
http://www.swaviator.com/html/issueMJ04/HangarHotel.html , and
could perhaps
be persuaded to provide a special rate if a half-dozen or more
TACOs were to
book in an event with planes flying in. I believe they are
trying to
attract the "classic" crowd such as Piets anyway.
It may warrant a field trip to investigate what they have in the
beer
cooler. I might have to persuade Sterling to help me
investigate.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
======
======
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
======
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: TACO induction gathering |
Deal me in.
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | N327BC First Flight Today |
N327BC flew for the first time today. No surprises. The 20 minute trip around
the pattern several times only a netted a couple of small adjustments. My friend
Don Sirmons from Quincy, Florida had the honors. Don's got 1000's of hours
in taildraggers and has test flown countless airplanes after build or re-build
including another Aircamper last year.
I know - it's like kissing your sister in a way BUT I feel better about doing it
this way because he was able to make some observations that I would have probably
been unable to process due to the high "pucker factor". He said it flies
great, it's in trim, makes good power, and the CG is just right so I have just
lowered my workload for the first time I fly it by having these things worked
out.
It's quite rewarding to complete it and see it fly. I'm sure I'll fly it this
weekend after I make a few minor adjustments.
To you guys building.... keep it up. It took me 9 years, 6 months and a couple
of days to get here! Once it's done it's really cool to see it fly.
I'll post some pictures to my website as soon as I can.
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Botsford" <botsford7(at)hot.rr.com> |
| Subject: | TACO induction gathering |
Mike, Were you at the Hillsboro airport last Friday. I saw a Piet while I
was doing a couple of touch and goes.
Jon b
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike King
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: TACO induction gathering
Sign me up. We might organize a group from North Texas
to go to the Hill Country.
Mike King
TACO Squadron
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Oscar Zuniga
Subject: Pietenpol-List: TACO induction gathering
Well, I hardly qualify for anything since I haven't yet gotten my
Piet in
the air, but here's an idea. There is a place at the Gillespie
County
Airport in Fredricksburg (the Hill Country of Texas) where they
have
renovated an old hangar and turned it into a hotel and somewhat
of a museum.
It's called the "Hangar Hotel", info at
http://www.swaviator.com/html/issueMJ04/HangarHotel.html , and
could perhaps
be persuaded to provide a special rate if a half-dozen or more
TACOs were to
book in an event with planes flying in. I believe they are
trying to
attract the "classic" crowd such as Piets anyway.
It may warrant a field trip to investigate what they have in the
beer
cooler. I might have to persuade Sterling to help me
investigate.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
======
======
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
======
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
<001e01c50345$9df4f3b0$6601a8c0@Nancy>
| Subject: | Re: N327BC First Flight Today |
AWESOME!!!!!! so glad to hear it Bert! I'm jealous! how about some pics
of the finished project?!
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Conoly
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 6:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: N327BC First Flight Today
N327BC flew for the first time today. No surprises. The 20 minute trip around
the pattern several times only a netted a couple of small adjustments. My
friend Don Sirmons from Quincy, Florida had the honors. Don's got 1000's of hours
in taildraggers and has test flown countless airplanes after build or re-build
including another Aircamper last year.
I know - it's like kissing your sister in a way BUT I feel better about doing
it this way because he was able to make some observations that I would have probably
been unable to process due to the high "pucker factor". He said it flies
great, it's in trim, makes good power, and the CG is just right so I have
just lowered my workload for the first time I fly it by having these things worked
out.
It's quite rewarding to complete it and see it fly. I'm sure I'll fly it this
weekend after I make a few minor adjustments.
To you guys building.... keep it up. It took me 9 years, 6 months and a couple
of days to get here! Once it's done it's really cool to see it fly.
I'll post some pictures to my website as soon as I can.
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | TACO induction gathering |
No, it was not me. I was at the Dallas Shrine all day Saturday.
You lucky dog. I would like to fly over to Hillsboro. Looks
like
a neat airport.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jon Botsford
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: TACO induction gathering
Mike, Were you at the Hillsboro airport last Friday. I saw a
Piet while I
was doing a couple of touch and goes.
Jon b
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Mike King
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: TACO induction gathering
Sign me up. We might organize a group from North Texas
to go to the Hill Country.
Mike King
TACO Squadron
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Oscar Zuniga
Subject: Pietenpol-List: TACO induction gathering
Well, I hardly qualify for anything since I haven't yet gotten my
Piet in
the air, but here's an idea. There is a place at the Gillespie
County
Airport in Fredricksburg (the Hill Country of Texas) where they
have
renovated an old hangar and turned it into a hotel and somewhat
of a museum.
It's called the "Hangar Hotel", info at
http://www.swaviator.com/html/issueMJ04/HangarHotel.html , and
could perhaps
be persuaded to provide a special rate if a half-dozen or more
TACOs were to
book in an event with planes flying in. I believe they are
trying to
attract the "classic" crowd such as Piets anyway.
It may warrant a field trip to investigate what they have in the
beer
cooler. I might have to persuade Sterling to help me
investigate.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
======
======
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
======
======
======
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
======
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | N327BC First Flight Today |
Congratulations Bert..
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bert Conoly
Subject: Pietenpol-List: N327BC First Flight Today
N327BC flew for the first time today. No surprises. The 20 minute trip
around the pattern several times only a netted a couple of small
adjustments. My friend Don Sirmons from Quincy, Florida had the honors.
Don's got 1000's of hours in taildraggers and has test flown countless
airplanes after build or re-build including another Aircamper last year.
I know - it's like kissing your sister in a way BUT I feel better about
doing it this way because he was able to make some observations that I would
have probably been unable to process due to the high "pucker factor". He
said it flies great, it's in trim, makes good power, and the CG is just
right so I have just lowered my workload for the first time I fly it by
having these things worked out.
It's quite rewarding to complete it and see it fly. I'm sure I'll fly it
this weekend after I make a few minor adjustments.
To you guys building.... keep it up. It took me 9 years, 6 months and a
couple of days to get here! Once it's done it's really cool to see it fly.
I'll post some pictures to my website as soon as I can.
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Berts first flight |
Good goin Bert. Now for the really fun part.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | N327BC First Flight Today |
Way to go, Bert!!! There's no feeling like it, is there?
Jack Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | N327BC First Flight Today |
Bert, Way to go, man that must be exciting.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Conoly
Subject: Pietenpol-List: N327BC First Flight Today
N327BC flew for the first time today. No surprises. The 20 minute trip around
the pattern several times only a netted a couple of small adjustments. My friend
Don Sirmons from Quincy, Florida had the honors. Don's got 1000's of hours
in taildraggers and has test flown countless airplanes after build or re-build
including another Aircamper last year.
I know - it's like kissing your sister in a way BUT I feel better about doing it
this way because he was able to make some observations that I would have probably
been unable to process due to the high "pucker factor". He said it flies
great, it's in trim, makes good power, and the CG is just right so I have just
lowered my workload for the first time I fly it by having these things worked
out.
It's quite rewarding to complete it and see it fly. I'm sure I'll fly it this
weekend after I make a few minor adjustments.
To you guys building.... keep it up. It took me 9 years, 6 months and a couple
of days to get here! Once it's done it's really cool to see it fly.
I'll post some pictures to my website as soon as I can.
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet for sale |
Dick, Thanks. Yes I am planning to be at SNF this spring.
Skip
Great to hear from you again. Hope to se you at SNF again.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N327BC First Flight Today |
Bert,
A big CONGRATULATIONS to you !! Well Done !! You did the right thing
having Don do the first flight. Seeing your ship in the air will pale by
comparison, when you are at the controls. Best of Luck !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Another Piet, actually a GN-1 for sale |
I heard from the owner of this one again this morning. The guy who said he
would take it "couldn't secure financing" so the plane is on the market
again. Here are the other pictures the owner sent me:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/wb0tmc/album?.dir=/1827&.src=ph&.tok=pha_vaCBx
j7VZ7QS
Steve Ruse
Dallas, TX
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Ruse
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another Piet, actually a GN-1 for sale
I called and spoke to the owner of this one for about 30 minutes on
Saturday.
Sounds like it is a good airplane. However, he e-mailed me this morning and
said that someone came out and looked at the plane Sunday, walked around it
once, and said he'd take it pending a pre-buy. Still, no cash has traded
hands
as far as I know, but it might already be spoken for.
Steve Ruse
Dallas, TX
Quoting Michael D Cuy :
> Can be seen if you search "Pietenpol" under barnstormers.com
>
> Photo enclosed.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> PIETENPOL $10,000 COME AND GET IT Pietenpol GN1-Aircamper
> Expermential class, built in 1981 flown regularly except the past year,
> only flown twice in past 12 month, That't the reason for the sale, Have to
> many airplanes. Wife says 2 is enough. C-85 continantial engine less that
> 600 TTA&E. Needs annual, but it is airworthy. Have all log books and
> records since new Price $10,000 without annual Jan. 18, 2005 call
> 731-225-5475 or 731-693-4041 West Tennessee. Contact James Fairchild -
> located Pinson, TN Usa Telephone: 731-988-5288 or 731-424-5426 Posted
> January 20, 2005 Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser Recommend This
> Ad to a Friend Send a Message
--
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Lift strut angle |
Group,
I am starting to make the fuselage brackets for the landing gear (split
axle) and have a question regarding the tab that the wing lift strut
attaches to. The plans say bend the tab up 20 degrees.
I drew a diagram on some graph paper with a vertical measurement of 46"
(fuselage 24" plus cabanes 22") and a horizontal measuremaent of 80" (from
the cabane out to the spar bracket).
This gives me an angle of 30 degrees.
Am I measuring something wrong, and is the angle of the tab critical ? Only
want to make these things once :-)
Congratulations Bert,
Rod Wooller
Chidlow
Australia ( Three and a half years in )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Lift strut angle |
Rod,
My Jim Wills plans show 28 degrees.
Cheers Peter.
Wonthaggi, Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rod wooller
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lift strut angle
Group,
I am starting to make the fuselage brackets for the landing gear (split
axle) and have a question regarding the tab that the wing lift strut
attaches to. The plans say bend the tab up 20 degrees.
I drew a diagram on some graph paper with a vertical measurement of 46"
(fuselage 24" plus cabanes 22") and a horizontal measuremaent of 80" (from
the cabane out to the spar bracket).
This gives me an angle of 30 degrees.
Am I measuring something wrong, and is the angle of the tab critical ? Only
want to make these things once :-)
Congratulations Bert,
Rod Wooller
Chidlow
Australia ( Three and a half years in )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lift strut angle |
I made mine right to the plans and after final assy , my tabs weren't right
on the centerline of the strut. The plans also say that you need some play
in the holes to avoid side stresses on the bolt and "chrystalizing"
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lift strut angle
>
> Group,
>
> I am starting to make the fuselage brackets for the landing gear (split
> axle) and have a question regarding the tab that the wing lift strut
> attaches to. The plans say bend the tab up 20 degrees.
> I drew a diagram on some graph paper with a vertical measurement of 46"
> (fuselage 24" plus cabanes 22") and a horizontal measuremaent of 80" (from
> the cabane out to the spar bracket).
> This gives me an angle of 30 degrees.
> Am I measuring something wrong, and is the angle of the tab critical ?
Only
> want to make these things once :-)
>
> Congratulations Bert,
>
> Rod Wooller
> Chidlow
> Australia ( Three and a half years in )
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Can someone please give me the torque values for 7/16 fine and 3/8 fine aircraft
grade bolts?
thanks!!
Douwe
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Raising the wing |
I was going to post this on the "lift strut angle"
thread but decided not to hijack that thread.
I am trying to determine all of the ramifications of
raising the wing on N444MH, Howard Henderson's plane
which I own.
It appears that when I raise the wing 2" (is that not
a common "raise" for the wing?) I will need to redo
the fuel line, the cabane struts, and the cabane strut
wires, unless I go with the forward hard braces. I
will need to lengthen the aileron cables, or
effectively lengthen them with some sort of "link" at
the controls.
Now, when you raise the wing, does not the angle of
the lift struts change? Or does the raising of the
wing also require different lift struts?
Anyone on the list raise the wing of a completed
plane? Should I just live with crunching myself up to
enter the cockpit? Should I have surgery and change MY
geometry? (Too many questions....)
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lift strut angle |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
Rod,
The angle is fairly critical and should be in line with the centerline
of the strut, otherwise it imparts bending moments that can jack up the
stresses unnecessarily.
I didn't build that type of gear on mine (I used the straight axle
undercarriage with wire wheels), but I wouldn't be surprised for this to
be a mistake in the plans - there are plenty of mistakes. Go with your
own geometry - make measuremetns of the parts you have and align the
angle with your struts. Any variations you have made in fuselage width,
cabane strut length, or position of the lift strut attach points on the
wing will affect the angle.
For what it's worth, on mine, with cabanes 2-1/2" longer than plans, my
angle was right at 30 degrees.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rod
wooller
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lift strut angle
Group,
I am starting to make the fuselage brackets for the landing gear (split
axle) and have a question regarding the tab that the wing lift strut
attaches to. The plans say bend the tab up 20 degrees.
I drew a diagram on some graph paper with a vertical measurement of 46"
(fuselage 24" plus cabanes 22") and a horizontal measuremaent of 80"
(from
the cabane out to the spar bracket).
This gives me an angle of 30 degrees.
Am I measuring something wrong, and is the angle of the tab critical ?
Only
want to make these things once :-)
Congratulations Bert,
Rod Wooller
Chidlow
Australia ( Three and a half years in )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Raising the wing |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
If you raise the wing, you will need to make new lift struts as well as
new cabanes. All the other things you mentioned must be changed as well
(fuel lines, aileron cables, roll wires). The roll wire fittings should
also be changed if the angle of the wires changes significantly, but I
doubt you will be changing it that much. The diagonal struts that run
from the forward cabanes down to the engine mount must be changed as
well (unless N444MH uses the bracing wires on the right side of the
cockpit for fore and aft bracing.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
I was going to post this on the "lift strut angle"
thread but decided not to hijack that thread.
I am trying to determine all of the ramifications of
raising the wing on N444MH, Howard Henderson's plane
which I own.
It appears that when I raise the wing 2" (is that not
a common "raise" for the wing?) I will need to redo
the fuel line, the cabane struts, and the cabane strut
wires, unless I go with the forward hard braces. I
will need to lengthen the aileron cables, or
effectively lengthen them with some sort of "link" at
the controls.
Now, when you raise the wing, does not the angle of
the lift struts change? Or does the raising of the
wing also require different lift struts?
Anyone on the list raise the wing of a completed
plane? Should I just live with crunching myself up to
enter the cockpit? Should I have surgery and change MY
geometry? (Too many questions....)
=====
Larry Nelson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Bellcrank question |
Yes, I know I need to just shutup and build it to the plans but I
would just like everyone's opinion on this one. On the plans the
bellcrank is made with two holes on the top and two holes on the
bottom with four shackles (at $8.00 each) directly connecting all
front and back elevator control cables. In the archives people
complain about their elevator cables going slack. In addition to
saying this is normal people claim that the solution is to have the
cables connect to the bellcrank in the middle, even with the center of
rotation. But no one offers a method of accomplishing this.
Well here is one way to do it and simplify the design as well. Just
dill one hole at the top and bottom in the center. Most Piet
belllcranks I have seen do not follow the plans and use short metal
straps with clevis pins to connect the bellbrank holes to the control
cables with maybe a shackle or two in between. Just use four short
metal straps at each end connected by a single clevis pin, two
pointing forward and two pointing back. Cheap, easy, simplier, don't
see how it would offer less strength.
Sorry for the long post and tell me where I am thinking wrong here.
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Raising the wing |
Larry
I can understand your problem I think! I am 6'4" tall and
could NOT get into the cockpit without the wing in place.
Looking at the access issue I simply left off the tail end
of the centre section behind the rear spar. I know some people
have put this part on a hinge so they can swing it up out
of the way. If you have the 3 piece wing this might be a simpler
solution. I also built mine as a single place as I had to move
the instrument panel ahead 4 inches. If I had been starting
from scratch I would have stretched to front part of the fuselage
about 6 inches and left it as a 2 place but I had bought a partly
built project from a estate so removing the front cockpit was
way easier, and with only 65 hp this way I don't have to consider
the extra weight of a passenger.
Anyway "BLACK PIET" will hopefully fly in a month. It is mostly
Black with white trim and wing top accents. 65 hp Continental
Narco radio, C transponder, registered as a ultralight so controlled
airspace is easier
Les in Calgary
>
>
>I was going to post this on the "lift strut angle"
>thread but decided not to hijack that thread.
>
>I am trying to determine all of the ramifications of
>raising the wing on N444MH, Howard Henderson's plane
>which I own.
>
>It appears that when I raise the wing 2" (is that not
>a common "raise" for the wing?) I will need to redo
>the fuel line, the cabane struts, and the cabane strut
>wires, unless I go with the forward hard braces. I
>will need to lengthen the aileron cables, or
>effectively lengthen them with some sort of "link" at
>the controls.
>
>Now, when you raise the wing, does not the angle of
>the lift struts change? Or does the raising of the
>wing also require different lift struts?
>
>Anyone on the list raise the wing of a completed
>plane? Should I just live with crunching myself up to
>enter the cockpit? Should I have surgery and change MY
>geometry? (Too many questions....)
>
>=====
>Larry Nelson
>Springfield, MO
>Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
>Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
>1963 GMC 4106-1618
>SV/ Spirit of America
>ARS WB0JOT
>
>__________________________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Derek Doyle" <doylederek(at)eircom.net> |
| Subject: | Accurate Wood List |
I've just received my plans and need to order the wood for a long bodied three
piece wing aircamper. I'll be ordering from Aircraft Spruce and shipping to Europe
so I want to avoid any mistakes. I've seen a wood list mentioned in the
archives (Sep 04) and would appreciate it if someone would e-mail me a copy.
Regards
Derek Doyle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello Gang,
I'm sure this has come up in the past, though I can't
get a hit on the search engine. Has anyone had
experience with varnished wings? I just figured up
the paint cost for the plane I am building and nearly
had heart failure! A friend of mine knew of a Piet
that had varnished wings and that it was flying and
holding up well. Does anyone know of this plane and
how I can contact the builder? I think the varnishing
would be much cheaper than the painting process. The
Helsman Spar Urethane I am using on the wood has some
UV protection, but is it enough? Has anyone added
alumn. powder to the varnish to improve the UV
protection? I know, questions, questions...
Thanks and best wishes to all.
Doc
__________________________________
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N327BC First Flight Today |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
Ok it's just piling on at this point, but here's my congrats also!
There can't be too much reinforcement when it comes to a first flight.
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAsAhQIOZzt8HtZ00kvZzWaLLbd6FRH+AIUT5tQtiqUBFhzMQEbJo+4ikKAyE0=
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Hello: We have to pick our summer vacation in the next week or so (where
I work) The last B.Head newsletter didn't have any dates for the fly
in. Is it the weekend before Oshkosh as usual? Does any ine know?
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doyle Combs" <doylecombskeith(at)earthlink.net> |
Galen, you might want to check out latex paint. I clearcoated the latex and
it looks pretty good and not soft as it was before.
> [Original Message]
> From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Date: 1/26/2005 11:50:44 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Varnished Wings
>
>
> Hello Gang,
>
> I'm sure this has come up in the past, though I can't
> get a hit on the search engine. Has anyone had
> experience with varnished wings? I just figured up
> the paint cost for the plane I am building and nearly
> had heart failure! A friend of mine knew of a Piet
> that had varnished wings and that it was flying and
> holding up well. Does anyone know of this plane and
> how I can contact the builder? I think the varnishing
> would be much cheaper than the painting process. The
> Helsman Spar Urethane I am using on the wood has some
> UV protection, but is it enough? Has anyone added
> alumn. powder to the varnish to improve the UV
> protection? I know, questions, questions...
>
> Thanks and best wishes to all.
>
> Doc
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Doyle,
I've been following the discussions on latex paint and
am impressed. The varnishing interests me because the
finished product would have a very old appearing
finish. I thought it would go very well with the
plane's antique history. I am definately going to
look at the latex paint before I pay outlandish prices
for A/C grade paint. It seems like anything aviation
has to cost 3 times as much as non-aviation materials.
Thank goodness we have the experimental class to do
just that, EXPERIMENT!
Thanks.
Galen (aka Doc)
--- Doyle Combs wrote:
Galen, you might want to check out latex paint. I
> clearcoated the latex and
> it looks pretty good and not soft as it was before.
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> more.
> > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N327BC First Flight Today |
Let me add my straw to the bundle and congrats on the
first flight. Even though you didn't make that first
flight yourself (and each pilot has to know his
limitations and to know when it is wise to let someone
else make the first flight) it has to be a rush to see
an airplane that you built with your own hands fly so
successfully. It makes us all (those who still labor
over dreams of someday flying our creations) envious
and yet proud that you have accomplished what you set
out to do 9 years ago. Best wishes and always "fly
safe."
Doc
--- "Hodgson, Mark O" wrote:
> O"
>
> Ok it's just piling on at this point, but here's my
> congrats also!
> There can't be too much reinforcement when it comes
> to a first flight.
>
> Mark Hodgson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
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>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Malley" <jgmalley(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Varnished Wings |
About 20 years ago, I made up some samples of fabric coverings to test for
durability, ease of fabrication, cost of the project, etc. One of the
samples was varnished with a brand that claimed some built-in UV protection.
The samples were left in the backyard for a couple of years; the sun, the
rain and a few of the neighbors' pets had a go at them. All held up well.
The varnished sample was relatively inexpensive, but 2 coats of it weighed
more than 9 coats of dope; also, I couldn't get the tapes to look right (and
I tried both gluing them on and varnishing them on). Partial to the
aesthetics of the "varnished look," I finally went with clear dope, mixing
in a little color on the 8th coat. There's no UV protection, but the
combination of a hangar, the Northeast's numerous sunless days, and everyday
nightfall have combined to keep the fabric in pretty good shape at the 15
year mark.
Jim Malley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Galen Hutcheson" <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Varnished Wings
>
> Hello Gang,
>
> I'm sure this has come up in the past, though I can't
> get a hit on the search engine. Has anyone had
> experience with varnished wings? I just figured up
> the paint cost for the plane I am building and nearly
> had heart failure! A friend of mine knew of a Piet
> that had varnished wings and that it was flying and
> holding up well. Does anyone know of this plane and
> how I can contact the builder? I think the varnishing
> would be much cheaper than the painting process. The
> Helsman Spar Urethane I am using on the wood has some
> UV protection, but is it enough? Has anyone added
> alumn. powder to the varnish to improve the UV
> protection? I know, questions, questions...
>
> Thanks and best wishes to all.
>
> Doc
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
Leon, The EAA chapter website says July 22 and 23 2005.
Skip
Is it the weekend before Oshkosh as usual? Does any ine know?
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Helicopter perfection (off-topic) |
I don't fly RC models and I don't fly choppers, but I just watched a video
clip of an RC chopper doing things I didn't think possible. I think DJ
would appreciate this one since he's an RC guy. It's several minutes of
video so it takes a bit to download (I have cable modem and it took about a
minute):
http://www.compfused.com/directlink/557/
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Helicopter perfection (off-topic) |
ahhhh yeas... Alan Szabo. he flies a Raptor 90. I have a Raptor 50. I've
flown with him at that field in Vegas a couple years ago. We put night
blades (LED's in the tips) on and flew our helicopters at night... loops
rools, inverted hovering... even flew through the sprinklers that night.
He's a great pilot.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Helicopter perfection (off-topic)
>
>
> I don't fly RC models and I don't fly choppers, but I just watched a video
> clip of an RC chopper doing things I didn't think possible. I think DJ
> would appreciate this one since he's an RC guy. It's several minutes of
> video so it takes a bit to download (I have cable modem and it took about
> a minute):
>
> http://www.compfused.com/directlink/557/
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Ragan" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Helicopter perfection (off-topic) |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
--- MIME Errors ---
A message with no text/plain section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
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NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the
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informed of the potential problem with their system as soon
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lift strut angle |
Rod,
The angle of the tab is critical, and should be parallel to the lift
struts, and have nice clean round holes in them, to attach the lift struts. As
for the holes, I much prefer pilot holes, then match drill the finished holes
when the lift struts are fitted. I suggest you triple check all your
measurements (especially if you change the cabane strut length, or the fuselage
width),
and use the angle you come up with. The angle is much closer to 30 than it
is to 20. While we're on this subject, the 90 angle fittings on the inside
calls out for 20 ga. (.035"). Last summer, I changed all four of those angle
fittings inside, because they were .035" 1020 steel, and they dimpled into the
wood. I replaced them with .063" 4130 steel. On the front cross strap, I
also added a 3/16" (#10) bolt up through the 2" cross piece strap, through the
White Ash cross strut, because the 2" strap bowed away from the bottom of the
fuselage. It was probably caused by the negative G's imposed on the lift
struts, as a result of a hard landing. This is somewhat of a common anomaly of
the design. I only installed one bolt up through the centerline, but now the 2"
strap is showing a gap on the left side. I will add two more 3/16" (#10)
bolts for a total of three bolts up through the Ash Cross Strut. I'm talking
about the front strap.
For the rear cross strap, there is already plenty of bolts going up
through the strap into the ash cross piece, with the rudder bar brace, and it is
where I mounted the master cylinders pivot points, a couple of inches to each
side of the centerline.
While flying, I use the 30 angle of the lift struts to attain a 30 bank
angle, by keeping them parallel to the ground.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Wichita KS
wishing you Texas Boys could shove some of that 70 weather up this way !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Lift strut angle |
Second that. The angle shown on your plans will be for
a specific case which assumes following the plans to the
letter. As Jack says, as soon as you make any change,
longer cabanes, positive dihedral, deeper fuselage, wider
fuselage, all of the above, that angle will change. There is
a Piet for sale here, built some years ago by a pair of airline
mechanics, with a 6" wider fuselage among other things. It
has flown for some years with an unmodified corvair except
for the removal of the cooling fan.
Jim Wills plans?
Clif
Landing gear sitting on fuselage, in jig, waiting for bolts
from Wicks. I'm having trouble waiting to turn it over
so I can sit in it and make engine noises again!
> Rod,
>
> The angle is fairly critical and should be in line with the centerline
> of the strut, otherwise it imparts bending moments that can jack up the
> stresses unnecessarily.
> I didn't build that type of gear on mine (I used the straight axle
> undercarriage with wire wheels), but I wouldn't be surprised for this to
> be a mistake in the plans - there are plenty of mistakes. Go with your
> own geometry - make measuremetns of the parts you have and align the
> angle with your struts. Any variations you have made in fuselage width,
> cabane strut length, or position of the lift strut attach points on the
> wing will affect the angle.
>
> For what it's worth, on mine, with cabanes 2-1/2" longer than plans, my
> angle was right at 30 degrees.
>
> Jack Phillips, PE
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bellcrank question |
Rick,
I believe the purpose of two holes on top, and two holes on the lower end of
the bellcrank, is to offer redundency, in the event of a pin failure.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Lift strut angle |
Thanks guys for all the replies and helpful hints. I'll re-measure
everything accurately and make the angle to suit.
Thanks again,
Rod
>From: "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lift strut angle
>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 16:44:12 +0800
>
>
>
>Group,
>
>I am starting to make the fuselage brackets for the landing
>gear.............
>
Rod Wooller
>Chidlow
>Australia ( Three and a half years in )
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Varnished Wings |
Thanks for the info Jim, I wonder how one good coat of
spar urethane varnish would work. It would cut down
on the weight. Perhaps with some alumn. powder mixed
in. I haven't priced the clear dope as yet, it may be
cheaper than the Poly Stitts stuff I priced.
Doc
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> more.
> > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bellcrank question |
I don't think any redundancy is gained by the use of four pins. If any one
of the four bellcrank pins breaks, elevator control is lost...you can't push
a cable.
Counter-intuitively, having only two pins would reduce the theoretical
probability of failure.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bellcrank question
>
> Rick,
> I believe the purpose of two holes on top, and two holes on the lower end
of
> the bellcrank, is to offer redundancy, in the event of a pin failure.
>
> Chuck G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Bellcrank question |
<003201c5042f$4f3710b0$6401a8c0@the48194bd3804>
If all else fails, use you arms :-)
Clif
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bellcrank question
> I don't think any redundancy is gained by the use of four pins. If any
one
> of the four bellcrank pins breaks, elevator control is lost...you can't
push
> a cable.
> Counter-intuitively, having only two pins would reduce the theoretical
> probability of failure.
>
> Mike Hardaway
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Varnished wings--Pietenpol Fly-In |
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
The plane with the varnished wings is owned by Tom Brown. To get his
address, email the Brodhead Chapter webmaster by clicking on the link at
the bottom of their website.
Brodhead Chapter website is: http://www.eaa431.org
The Piet Fly-in is July 22-23, 2005.
Dick H.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | lift strut angle |
Just to add one more data point to the growing pile, the wing lift struts on
NX41CC are right at 30 degrees from horizontal, and I believe the wing
cabanes are lengthened a bit to raise the wing. But I looked at the
geometry in CAD and tried moving the wing back down to stock location and it
only reduces the angle a degree or two. Twenty degrees wouldn't seem to be
correct in any case that I looked at.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Accurate Wood List |
Derek
I bought a Piet wood kit from Aircraft Spruce. Just before it was ready to
ship they called me to say that the rib cap strip was not included in that
price and was extra. About this time I found a partly built Piet project so
I have never opened the boxes to inventory it, figured it was safer in the
crates as it came. I didn't buy the cap strip as I knew I wouldn't need it
at that time. Hope
this helps.
Les
>I've just received my plans and need to order the wood for a long bodied
>three piece wing aircamper. I'll be ordering from Aircraft Spruce and
>shipping to Europe so I want to avoid any mistakes. I've seen a wood list
>mentioned in the archives (Sep 04) and would appreciate it if someone
>would e-mail me a copy.
>
>Regards
>
>Derek Doyle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Varnished wings--Pietenpol Fly-In |
Dick, thanks for that info. I will contact them soon.
I hope to make it to Broadhead this year, if all goes
well, but I doubt my plane will be ready.
Doc
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Lift strut angle |
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift strut angle
Clif wrote:
Jim Wills plans?
Clif,
I believe Rod was referring to the Pietenpol plans modified by Jim Wills,
for PFA (UK) approval . I understand those plans have a few modifications
including a quick-disconnect for aileron connections (since the majority of
UK Piets will only be flown in summer and stored for the winter) and
built-up spars (because spar stock is scarce in the UK). There are likely
other modifications/corrections, and I believe that variation from any
details on those plans must be granted a concession by the PFA (correct me
if I'm wrong, anyone who knows better).
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Stapelberg" <norshel(at)mweb.co.za> |
Hello Fellow Piet pilots
Thought I'd pass this one out there, went flying in my plane with the
instructor, only to find that the air speed and VSI react as the power
setting is changed, it seems I have a problem with the static port.
I am currently using a pitot/ static tube, the static tube sits about 4"
below the wing with the pitot tube another 2"lower. The front cockpit
also has a ASI and Altimeter, these however are not connected to the
pilots static system, the front Altimeter reads 100' higher than the
rear cockpit, the ASI reads 10mph higher than the rear instruments.
My thoughts are to plumb all the instruments to the static system, and
then to use an alternate static port, my question is this where would
the best place to pick up a reliable static position.
To date we have flown 2hrs since the rebuild and everything else seems
in order.
Thanks
Norman Stapelberg
South Africa
ZS-VJA (121hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
Hi Norman,
The first question that comes to mind is where are your pitot tube and
static tube in relation to the leading edge of the wing? If they are
behind the leading edge, 4" is probably not far enough away from the
wing to truly read "Free-stream" air. If you look at other similar
speed airplanes, such as a J-3 Cub, you will find that the pitot tube is
located considerably lower than that - about 12" as I recall from my old
Cub.
It is a good idea to use a static port, rather than just leaving the
instruments open to the air behind the instrument panel. Rarely does
the cockpit ambient pressure match the actual static pressure, with the
results that the instruments don't read accurately. But the location of
this port must be carefully chosen to make sure it is not influenced by
the airflow around the airplane. Putting the port out ahead of the lead
edge of the wing, and well outboard of the propwash is usually a good
choice.
In the book "Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft" by Vaughan Askue
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0813813085/qid=1106857699
/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-2003434-0024117?v=glance&s=books ) there is a
whole chapter on selecting a location for the pitot-static system, and
methods to calibrate it.
Most pitot tubes don't read accurately at high angles of attack,
generating airspeed readings considerably slower than the true airspeed.
One of the tips he gives in the book is to chamfer the edges of the
pitot tube, creating a slight funnel shape which tends to promote much
more acurate indications. When I test flew my Pietenpol (with a
chamfered pitot tube), I got an indicated airspeed at stall of about 42
mph. I was disturbed by comparing this to the speeds others were
quoting (stall speeds as low as 29 mph), until I started running some
calculations. For my plane to stall at 42 mph requires a maximum lift
coefficient of about 1.8, whcih is quite reasonable for an airfoil made
up by an amateur designer like BHP. For even a light weight Pietenpol
to stall at 29 mph would require a lift coefficient of over 3.2, which
is totally unrealistic without leading edge slats and double-slotted
flaps. The only conclusion is that the airspeed indications are faulty
and the actual airspeeds at stall are closer to 40 mph.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
Hello Fellow Piet pilots
Thought I'd pass this one out there, went flying in my plane with the
instructor, only to find that the air speed and VSI react as the power
setting is changed, it seems I have a problem with the static port.
I am currently using a pitot/ static tube, the static tube sits about 4"
below the wing with the pitot tube another 2"lower. The front cockpit
also has a ASI and Altimeter, these however are not connected to the
pilots static system, the front Altimeter reads 100' higher than the
rear cockpit, the ASI reads 10mph higher than the rear instruments.
My thoughts are to plumb all the instruments to the static system, and
then to use an alternate static port, my question is this where would
the best place to pick up a reliable static position.
To date we have flown 2hrs since the rebuild and everything else seems
in order.
Thanks
Norman Stapelberg
South Africa
ZS-VJA (121hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
I took a shot at it, and guess got lucky. On the bottom of the rear
instrument panel, made a fitting with a small hole in it, to put the static
tube thru the ply, kind of down pointing at my right shin. No real
variations, and airspeed checks with GPS. easy installation too, 12"of
plastic
tubing.
Added a front ASI later and didn't add to the static system, and it has some
variations.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norman Stapelberg" <norshel(at)mweb.co.za>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Static port
>
> Hello Fellow Piet pilots
>
> Thought I'd pass this one out there, went flying in my plane with the
> instructor, only to find that the air speed and VSI react as the power
> setting is changed, it seems I have a problem with the static port.
>
> I am currently using a pitot/ static tube, the static tube sits about 4"
> below the wing with the pitot tube another 2"lower. The front cockpit
> also has a ASI and Altimeter, these however are not connected to the
> pilots static system, the front Altimeter reads 100' higher than the
> rear cockpit, the ASI reads 10mph higher than the rear instruments.
>
> My thoughts are to plumb all the instruments to the static system, and
> then to use an alternate static port, my question is this where would
> the best place to pick up a reliable static position.
>
> To date we have flown 2hrs since the rebuild and everything else seems
> in order.
>
> Thanks
>
> Norman Stapelberg
> South Africa
> ZS-VJA (121hrs)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bellcrank question |
In a message dated 1/26/05 11:29:50 PM Central Standard Time,
bike.mike(at)verizon.net writes:
<< I don't think any redundancy is gained by the use of four pins. If any one
of the four bellcrank pins breaks, elevator control is lost...you can't push
a cable.
Counter-intuitively, having only two pins would reduce the theoretical
probability of failure.
Mike Hardaway >>
Mike,
Bernard Pietenpol was a master of design. If he put four pins in there, then
there was some very good reason for it. Sometimes, the purpose of a design
is not readily evident. The plane can certainly be flown if only one half of
the elevators (flippers) is operational. Power setting can also be used for
pitch control.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bellcrank question |
If we think a moment: there are 4 cables going back as the elevators
are separate each side so 2 for the top and 2 for the bottom, then
of course there are 2 cables going forward to the stick, and then you
might have 2 cables going forward for trim if you have it. I don't have
the plans right in front of me, they are in the shop; but that might
total to 6 holes (or 8 holes with trim) for all the clevis that you might
need, or maybe just 4 holes if you double up the cables going back
onto the same clevis.
>
>In a message dated 1/26/05 11:29:50 PM Central Standard Time,
>bike.mike(at)verizon.net writes:
>
><< I don't think any redundancy is gained by the use of four pins. If any one
> of the four bellcrank pins breaks, elevator control is lost...you can't push
> a cable.
> Counter-intuitively, having only two pins would reduce the theoretical
> probability of failure.
>
> Mike Hardaway >>
>
>Mike,
>Bernard Pietenpol was a master of design. If he put four pins in there, then
>there was some very good reason for it. Sometimes, the purpose of a design
>is not readily evident. The plane can certainly be flown if only one half of
>the elevators (flippers) is operational. Power setting can also be used for
>pitch control.
>
>Chuck G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Projects in the Nashville area? |
I'll be in Nashville next week on business and wondered if there are any Piets
or Pietenpol projects in the Nashville TN area?
Thanks,
Jim in Plano (where there's a Piet project ON THE GEAR!!!! woohoo!!!!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Croke" <jon(at)joncroke.com> |
| Subject: | How to License your Homebuilt Aircraft |
This is an announcement that www.HomebuiltHELP.com has just completed production, and is proud to announce the release of their latest DVD video presentation: "How to License Your Homebuilt Aircraft". (for the U.S.)
To the best of my knowledge, this is the first comprehensive DVD video that explains
in detail the complete licensing process for experimental amateur built
aircraft - showing what/how to fill out the forms, and also demonstrating new
capabilities such as reserving an N number by going online and using the FAA website.
I'll leave it at that, as full details are available at the www.HomebuiltHELP.com website. In keeping with the list's guidelines, this will be the ONLY post on this matter, and I hope it was valuable to some Pietenpol builders.
Thanks!
Jon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Waytogopiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: N327BC First Flight Today |
In a message dated 1/25/2005 7:26:23 PM Central Standard Time,
bconoly(at)earthlink.net writes:
To you guys building.... keep it up. It took me 9 years, 6 months and a
couple of days to get here! Once it's done it's really cool to see it fly.
I'll post some pictures to my website as soon as I can.
Bert
Congratulations Bert, it's got to be a great day and a wonderful sense of
accomplishment. Mine is not far behind. Taxi tests revealed some problems that
are just about corrected. They involved wheel bearings and bad geometry between
the tailwheel control arms and the rudder conrols arms. Look forward to the
photos. Don H.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Bellcrank question |
Each pin and clevis has it's own job to do distinct from
all the others. Any one breaks and it's doo-doo time.
The rear cables are doubled on one clevis on the plans
thus 4 holes. Using two would mean opening up two
of the clevis( clevie?) to go outside the others. This would
mean a longer pin, increasing bending loads on it. This in
turn leads to the necessity of a larger pin which means
a larger clevis which might be too big for the cable loop,
heavier also.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Schubert
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 6:48 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bellcrank question
If we think a moment: there are 4 cables going back as the elevators
are separate each side so 2 for the top and 2 for the bottom, then
of course there are 2 cables going forward to the stick, and then you
might have 2 cables going forward for trim if you have it. I don't have
the plans right in front of me, they are in the shop; but that might
total to 6 holes (or 8 holes with trim) for all the clevis that you might
need, or maybe just 4 holes if you double up the cables going back
onto the same clevis.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Botsford" <botsford7(at)hot.rr.com> |
| Subject: | TACO induction gathering |
Mike,
Hillsboro is a nice, small airport. Gives extra discount on already low
priced fuel on Saturdays. Later this spring come down to PWG (McGregor) and
have breakfast with Chapter 59. We do it on the first Saturday of each
month. Next week is the first Saturday in February.
Jon b
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike King
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: TACO induction gathering
No, it was not me. I was at the Dallas Shrine all day Saturday.
You lucky dog. I would like to fly over to Hillsboro. Looks
like
a neat airport.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jon Botsford
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: TACO induction gathering
Mike, Were you at the Hillsboro airport last Friday. I saw a
Piet while I
was doing a couple of touch and goes.
Jon b
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Mike King
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: TACO induction gathering
Sign me up. We might organize a group from North Texas
to go to the Hill Country.
Mike King
TACO Squadron
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Oscar Zuniga
Subject: Pietenpol-List: TACO induction gathering
Well, I hardly qualify for anything since I haven't yet gotten my
Piet in
the air, but here's an idea. There is a place at the Gillespie
County
Airport in Fredricksburg (the Hill Country of Texas) where they
have
renovated an old hangar and turned it into a hotel and somewhat
of a museum.
It's called the "Hangar Hotel", info at
http://www.swaviator.com/html/issueMJ04/HangarHotel.html , and
could perhaps
be persuaded to provide a special rate if a half-dozen or more
TACOs were to
book in an event with planes flying in. I believe they are
trying to
attract the "classic" crowd such as Piets anyway.
It may warrant a field trip to investigate what they have in the
beer
cooler. I might have to persuade Sterling to help me
investigate.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
======
======
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
======
======
======
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
======
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Stapelberg" <norshel(at)mweb.co.za> |
Hi Jack
Yep static is about 4" below the leading edge and in line, the pitot
pipe is another 2" lower than the static pipe and is about a 1/2"forward
of the leading edge. I copied the pitot/ static system that was given in
the KR manual. Well it don't seem to work for me, will have to try
another system, I pulled in a tube to the front instruments static's now
just need a reliable source for the static. The current position is well
clear of the prop wash as it is close to the wing attachment.
I'll let you know how things progress, I am going to make a new system
of tubes but longer.
Thanks
Norman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Stinemetze" <stinemetze(at)mpks.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Accurate Wood List |
WEIGHT10, WEIGHT15 [15]
You are quite correct that the Aircraft Spruce Piet wood kid does not
include the cap strip material for the wings. (although cap strip
material for the tail group is included.) I found this out the hard way.
When my wood kit arrived (minus any 1/2 inch by =BC inch cap strips), I
called and got connected with a nice young lady who looked up the pull
sheet (which I had not received with the order) and informed me that cap
strip was extra at $8 per foot. (Turns out she was wrong on the $8 per
foot part.) When I got over my shock I checked out the catalogue which
states that rib and spar stock is supplied S2S and are to be run through
a table saw and ripped to the appropriate widths. When I called back to
check this out, the phone rep checked with the shop guys and came back
with =93we think the 3 inch by 1/2 inch by 7 foot boards are to be ripped
for the cap strips.=94 Shortly after ripping these boards for cap strips,
I received the pull sheet and found out that these newly deceased boards
are the aileron spars. Oh well! Good lesson to pass on I guess.
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, Kansas
____ | ____
\8/
/ \
=93I bought a Piet wood kit from Aircraft Spruce. Just before it was
ready to
ship they called me to say that the rib cap strip was not included
in that
price and was extra.=94
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Malcolm Morrison" <morrisons5(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Updates on my web site |
Hi all
Just posted a couple of updates on my web site showing brake pedals, wings,
engine, and carbs.
http://users.adelphia.net/~morrisons5/piet.html
Malcolm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Green" <mmml(at)bigpond.com> |
Hi All,
Check this out. I might ditch the Piet and get one of these ! :)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category26442&item4522969691&rd1&ssPageNameWDVW
You might note he already has 2 bids on it .
Mike Green
Romsey
Victoria
AUSTRALIA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
There is a Piet in the air museum in Liberal, Kansas. Interesting white
paint scheme. Pictures at
http://www.cityofliberal.com/airmuseum/aircraft/homebuilt/index.html
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Japanese Pietenpol Air Camper |
Thru another builder who contacted me, I learned that a glider
pilot/mechanic named Mita San
near Tokyo built an Air Camper years ago and never finished it. He
intends to someday but for
now has built this yellow electric r/c Piet which he has flown off the sand
beaches of Tokyo bay !
Tora Tora Pietenpol Air Camper !
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Leading Edge Ply |
Hi Guys,
I have just had my first major woodworking cock up. I have been trying to
glue the leading edge ply to one of the outer wing sections of a three piece
wing.
I started by making up the whole length from four pieces of ply scarfe
jointed together. I loosely attached the top of the ply to the upper spar of
the wing and applied many wet towels along the leading edge bend line. I
thought of gluing it all at one time but decided to do the top first, let
that dry and then do the bottom.
I glued the top part, let it dry and I got as far as applying the glue to
the bottom part yesterday afternoon but could not get the ply to fit around
the LE properly. I presume I had not bent it enough. It was becoming a real
mess so I removed the ply totally from top and bottom and will have to start
again. The glue works well. I will have a lot of cleaning up to do on the
wing rib leading edges!
How did you guys do yours? did you glue it all as one piece? or one top and
another on the bottom? or in pieces to butt joint at the ribs?......
Any tips or a blow by blow account of how you managed it would be gratefully
received?
Many thanks
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge Ply |
Peter,
I borrowed someone elses idea with cutting a plastic jug (either Chlorox or a white
jug from cat litter) into strips about 3/4" wide on the band saw. After glueing
with T-88 simply stapled through the strips into the ply, into the rib.
Next day , the glue doesn't stick to the plastic, and mainly the plastic stops
the staples from making a dent in the ply. When using the light staples only
1/4' long, the strips could be grabbed at the end and pulled in a long strip
to remove the staples.
didn't scarff the joint, just cut the length to center on a rib center where necessary.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter W Johnson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 8:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading Edge Ply
Hi Guys,
I have just had my first major woodworking cock up. I have been trying to glue
the leading edge ply to one of the outer wing sections of a three piece wing.
I started by making up the whole length from four pieces of ply scarfe jointed
together. I loosely attached the top of the ply to the upper spar of the wing
and applied many wet towels along the leading edge bend line. I thought of gluing
it all at one time but decided to do the top first, let that dry and then
do the bottom.
I glued the top part, let it dry and I got as far as applying the glue to the
bottom part yesterday afternoon but could not get the ply to fit around the LE
properly. I presume I had not bent it enough. It was becoming a real mess so
I removed the ply totally from top and bottom and will have to start again. The
glue works well. I will have a lot of cleaning up to do on the wing rib leading
edges!
How did you guys do yours? did you glue it all as one piece? or one top and another
on the bottom? or in pieces to butt joint at the ribs?......
Any tips or a blow by blow account of how you managed it would be gratefully
received?
Many thanks
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | continental A65in "Black Piet" |
I was sitting in my almost completed Piet today running the engine and
observed that the engine seems to go rich as you come off idle up to about
1100 rpm, over that it then revs up nicely. idles fine at about 600-700 rpm
with no indication of overrichness. Starts quite nicely with the throttle
closed with one shot of prime. The engine was at about 60 F and the outside
air temp was about 35 F when it started. I assume that this flat spot and
slight black smoke as you speed it up is a indication of incorrect float
level. I have installed the new delrin needle with the recommended float
weight change. I would appreciate any sage advice from someone with more
experience than I. I should be ready to test fly in a week or so if I don't
have huge issues to deal with. Just need to final fit the wings, do the
weight and balance final, and take it to the airport. I have a experience
tail dragger pilot lined up for the first flights
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: continental A65in "Black Piet" |
Les. I've seen this too. It seems to be a function of temperature. It
doesn't do it if the ambient temp is over 50 F. I've heard some folks say
this is common with A-65s.
I'm interested in responses here , too.
I'm still waiting on some reasonable winds. All dressed up with no where to
go!
BC
http://bconoly.tripod.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: continental A65in "Black Piet"
>
> I was sitting in my almost completed Piet today running the engine and
> observed that the engine seems to go rich as you come off idle up to about
> 1100 rpm, over that it then revs up nicely. idles fine at about 600-700
rpm
> with no indication of overrichness. Starts quite nicely with the throttle
> closed with one shot of prime. The engine was at about 60 F and the
outside
> air temp was about 35 F when it started. I assume that this flat spot and
> slight black smoke as you speed it up is a indication of incorrect float
> level. I have installed the new delrin needle with the recommended float
> weight change. I would appreciate any sage advice from someone with more
> experience than I. I should be ready to test fly in a week or so if I
don't
> have huge issues to deal with. Just need to final fit the wings, do the
> weight and balance final, and take it to the airport. I have a experience
> tail dragger pilot lined up for the first flights
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | COntinental A65's on a cold morning |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
Bert and Les,
I think what you are seeing is pretty common. Continental A65's don't
have an "acceleration pump" on the throttle to help atomize extra fuel
for acceleration. When the engine is cold, a sudden opening of the
throttle tends to suck liquid fuel into the throat of the carburetor,
with the result that the engine sort of chokes and gasps before
beginning to accelerate. It can be quite disconcerting particularly if
you suddenly need a burst of power, to shove the throttle in and have
the engine sit there spluttering for a second or two before beginning to
speed up. It definitely occurs on my Pietenpol and I remember the same
thing happening with my old J-3 Cub. You just need to learn to advance
the throttle very slowly on a cold day. I've never had the engine quit
from this, but it sounds like it is about to quit.
Jack Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: COntinental A65's on a cold morning |
COntinental A65's on a cold morningIt is more serious than you think. Lee Hilbert,
Buck's #3 son, had his A-65 quit because he went from idle to power about
2 weeks ago. Temp was about 5=B0F. He landed, dead stick on Lake Delavan only
to sink thru a weak spot in the ice.
Ruined his entire day and the WIS DNR finded him $440 for polluting the lake.
Cy Galley - Aeronca Aviators Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.aeronca.org
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: Pietenpol-List
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 8:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: COntinental A65's on a cold morning
Bert and Les,
I think what you are seeing is pretty common. Continental A65's don't have an
"acceleration pump" on the throttle to help atomize extra fuel for acceleration.
When the engine is cold, a sudden opening of the throttle tends to suck
liquid fuel into the throat of the carburetor, with the result that the engine
sort of chokes and gasps before beginning to accelerate. It can be quite disconcerting
particularly if you suddenly need a burst of power, to shove the throttle
in and have the engine sit there spluttering for a second or two before
beginning to speed up. It definitely occurs on my Pietenpol and I remember the
same thing happening with my old J-3 Cub. You just need to learn to advance
the throttle very slowly on a cold day. I've never had the engine quit from
this, but it sounds like it is about to quit.
Jack Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | COntinental A65's on a cold morning |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
Man! That=A1=AFs terrible! What kind of plane was it? Probably not a Pietenpol
at 5=A2=AAF, but anything with a 65 Continental is a cool airplane
Jack
-----Original Message-----
It is more serious than you think. Lee Hilbert, Buck's #3 son, had his A-65 quit
because he went from idle to power about 2 weeks ago. Temp was about 5=A1=C6F.
He landed, dead stick on Lake Delavan only to sink thru a weak spot in the
ice.
Ruined his entire day and the WIS DNR finded him $440 for polluting the lake.
Cy Galley - Aeronca Aviators Club
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Japanese Pietenpol Air Camper |
looks good! I think everyone who builds a real Aircamper should build a
model too!
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Japanese Pietenpol Air Camper
> Thru another builder who contacted me, I learned that a glider
> pilot/mechanic named Mita San
> near Tokyo built an Air Camper years ago and never finished it. He
> intends to someday but for
> now has built this yellow electric r/c Piet which he has flown off the
sand
> beaches of Tokyo bay !
>
> Tora Tora Pietenpol Air Camper !
>
> Mike
----
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: COntinental A65's on a cold morning |
COntinental A65's on a cold morningIt was an Aeronca 7AC
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 9:27 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: COntinental A65's on a cold morning
Man! That=A1=AFs terrible! What kind of plane was it? Probably not a Pietenpol
at 5=A2=AAF, but anything with a 65 Continental is a cool airplane
Jack
-----Original Message-----
It is more serious than you think. Lee Hilbert, Buck's #3 son, had his A-65 quit
because he went from idle to power about 2 weeks ago. Temp was about 5=A1=C6F.
He landed, dead stick on Lake Delavan only to sink thru a weak spot in the
ice.
Ruined his entire day and the WIS DNR finded him $440 for polluting the lake.
Cy Galley - Aeronca Aviators Club
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: COntinental A65's on a cold morning |
Jack is right, you slowly advance the throttle or
advance it in small increments to allow the engine to
catch up. You can flood the carb. enough to kill the
engine. This is especially true on a very cold
engine. Another reason to allow the engine to warm up
before flight on cold days.
Doc
--- "Phillips, Jack" wrote:
> Bert and Les,
>
> You just need to learn to advance
> the throttle very slowly on a cold day.
>
> Jack Phillips
>
>
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Continental A-65 in "Black Piet" |
Les asks-
>I assume that this flat spot and slight black smoke as you speed it up
>is a indication of incorrect float level. I have installed the new delrin
>needle
>with the recommended float weight change.
Not sure if it's a float level issue because you didn't say which carburetor
you're using, but if it's a Stromberg NA-S3 series, it could possibly be.
There is a bit of fussiness about setting the float level but it's been
perfect on mine since Corky set it up and since I changed the carb to one
overhauled by Deanie Montgomery. Deanie puts them on a flow bench to set
them up, but if you want to fool with it there is detailed information in
some articles authored by Neal Wright at
http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/engines.htm (under "Technical Help- Neal
Wright on the Stromberg Carburetor"). It has to do with fiddling with the
combination of various thicknesses of float bowl gaskets that come with an
overhaul kit.
You can email Neal at COUGARNFW(at)aol.com if you want to discuss this specific
problem to see if it's related to the float level.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Fisher <mfisher(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | Virus, Modern Ford Power |
2004)
Piet List Members,
I keep getting lengthy, virus infected attachments from Michael D. Cuy
to my personal mailbox. When I asked Mr. Cuy to disinfect the attachment of
the "W32Beagle.AY@mm" virus to reassure my very picky Norton utility, he responded
by advising me to seek assistance by clicking on the "HELP" button.
Perhaps this is not the Michael D. Cuy who is a member of the Pietenpol List.
Does anyone know anything about this?
On a more interesting note, many Pieters are airframe guys; a smaller number are
engine guys. A few like D. J. Vegh and Larry Harrison are both. I am primarily
an engine guy who has a 116 cubic inch Ford Escort engine hanging, inverted,
in a mockup Pietenpol Scout mount on my garage wall. It is currently belt-driven
by a large electric motor to investigate the pressure and scavenge oiling
and fuel injection systems. The truncated oil pan (now on top and no longer
a sump) has a temporary Plexiglas cover through which oil flows can be observed.
Interesting stuff, slow progress, not actively looking for an airframe
yet. Sure would be fun to have it running at Brodhead next July.
Happy landings,
Mike Fisher
Talkeetna, Alaska
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Next TACO meeting to honor Steve Ruse |
Steve...Sorry for the delay in answering your inquiry about the price quote from
US Buildings. We've been out of town for the last ten days. The price I was
quoted on 4/6/04 for a model Q33'-16' which is 33 feet wide and 20 feet long with
max height of 16 feet was $5750.00 delivered to Huntsville, Alabama.. The
person who made the quote was Andrea C. Gimin. You might want to talk to Karen
Smith (factory consultant) first. Do you know they have a free video which they
will send upon request?
...Carl Vought----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Ruse
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 1:55 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Next TACO meeting to honor Steve Ruse
That sounds like fun Sterling, I can't wait to get it back here and spend spring,
summer, and fall burning Avgas. I'll have the plane here ASAWA (As Soon
As Weather Allows). I'd be glad to drop down into the hill country once I get
it here, there is some great barbeque to be had down there.
Thanks for the welcome everyone...I can't wait to meet more of you. Seems like
a great group.
Later this spring I plan on buying some wood and fabric and re-creating the vertical
and horizontal stabs for a Pietenpol, just to learn more about their construction.
Who knows, maybe one day I'll find time to build an entire Piet.
Steve
Dallas, TX
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 8:19 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Next TACO meeting to honor Steve Ruse
Actually the subject line should read... Next TACO meeting to honor and induct
Steve Ruse and gawk at his new Texas Air Camper...
As soon as Steve has an idea of when he will have his Air Camper in Texas,
and at a time convenient to him, let's have a meeting. Maybe we can tie this into
Mike Cuy's visit. Maybe Corky can swing by? Maybe Oscar will have his repairs
done and can meet us at a location between San Antonio and Dallas if there
isn't a Presidential TFR. Maybe some other Yankees other than Mike can visit?
Just a thought.
Sterling
5TA6
NOTAMS. Fresh cow chips on runway, land at your own risk.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Virus, Modern Ford Power |
There was a Mike Fisher who was involved in the tests of a two-cylinder
opposed four stroke Rotax engine. Zat you? The tests apparently didn't go
well or Rotax decided the market wasn't there. I'd like to find out more
about it...Carl Vought
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Fisher" <mfisher(at)gci.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Virus, Modern Ford Power
>
> Piet List Members,
> I keep getting lengthy, virus infected attachments from Michael
D. Cuy to my personal mailbox. When I asked Mr. Cuy to disinfect the
attachment of the "W32Beagle.AY@mm" virus to reassure my very picky Norton
utility, he responded by advising me to seek assistance by clicking on the
"HELP" button.
>
> Perhaps this is not the Michael D. Cuy who is a member of the Pietenpol
List. Does anyone know anything about this?
>
> On a more interesting note, many Pieters are airframe guys; a smaller
number are engine guys. A few like D. J. Vegh and Larry Harrison are both.
I am primarily an engine guy who has a 116 cubic inch Ford Escort engine
hanging, inverted, in a mockup Pietenpol Scout mount on my garage wall. It
is currently belt-driven by a large electric motor to investigate the
pressure and scavenge oiling and fuel injection systems. The truncated oil
pan (now on top and no longer a sump) has a temporary Plexiglas cover
through which oil flows can be observed. Interesting stuff, slow progress,
not actively looking for an airframe yet. Sure would be fun to have it
running at Brodhead next July.
>
>
Happy landings,
>
Mike Fisher
>
Talkeetna, Alaska
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: continental A65in "Black Piet" |
Les,
Yeah, I went thru this with my Mentor on a 65 idle setup. First you have to
set up the carb to the manual. Then , as I was told, you have to find the
happy medium on the idle mixture. The main thing is that the Stromberg carb
doesn't have an acelerator pump like all the cars do, so you have to set it
up so that it will stumble the least on acceration. and work the throttle
accordingly. (remember, it's 1930's technology)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Schubert" <leskarin(at)telus.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: continental A65in "Black Piet"
>
> I was sitting in my almost completed Piet today running the engine and
> observed that the engine seems to go rich as you come off idle up to about
> 1100 rpm, over that it then revs up nicely. idles fine at about 600-700
rpm
> with no indication of overrichness. Starts quite nicely with the throttle
> closed with one shot of prime. The engine was at about 60 F and the
outside
> air temp was about 35 F when it started. I assume that this flat spot and
> slight black smoke as you speed it up is a indication of incorrect float
> level. I have installed the new delrin needle with the recommended float
> weight change. I would appreciate any sage advice from someone with more
> experience than I. I should be ready to test fly in a week or so if I
don't
> have huge issues to deal with. Just need to final fit the wings, do the
> weight and balance final, and take it to the airport. I have a experience
> tail dragger pilot lined up for the first flights
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bpjardine(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Peitenpol in Utah |
Hi everyone,
My name is Brian and I am new to this group. I live in Clinton, Utah and I was
interested in a Peitenpol for a new project. I had a Challenger II several years
ago and my brother and I finished a Sixchuter PPC last year. I like the looks,
and construction of the Air camper. I have a few questions I hope you all
could help me with. 1. Where is the best place to obtain full sets of plans
and assembly instructions? 2. Would it be wise to buy a plane that someone else
has started? 3. Does anyone know of any planes started/unfinished for sale.
4. Can you buy a kit that includes the needed wood sizes? 5. Does anyone know
if there are any builders, or Piets in Utah? I am 210lb pilot, I would like
to sit in one to get the feel if I am going to invest the time and money. I
have read a lot regarding the plane and the different engines guys have used.
Would a C-90 be to large with my weight, or would a Continental A-65 be better
suited? Are the Rotax engines too light for the p
lane and do they have enough torque at the lower RPMS? I'm sure if I get started
on this project I will have many questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Brian Jardine
Clinton, Utah
801-499-6210
Hi everyone,
My name is Brian and I am new to this group. I live in Clinton, Utah and I
was interested in a Peitenpol for a new project. I had a Challenger II
several years ago and my brother and I finished a Sixchuter PPC last year. I like
the looks, and construction of the Air camper. I have a few questions I hope
you all could help me with. 1. Where is the best place to obtain full
sets of plans and assembly instructions? 2. Would it be wise to buy a plane
that someone else has started? 3. Does anyone know of any planes started/unfinished
for sale. 4. Can you buy a kit that includes the needed wood
sizes? 5. Does anyone know if there are any builders, or Piets in Utah?
I am 210lb pilot, I would like to sit in one to get the feel if I am going
to invest the time and money.I have read a lot regarding the plane
andthe different engines guys have used. Would a C-90 be to large
with my weight, or would a Continental A-65 be be
tter suited? Are the Rotax engines too light for the plane and do they have
enough torque at the lower RPMS? I'm sure if I get started on this project
I will have many questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Brian Jardine
Clinton, Utah
801-499-6210
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doyle Combs" <doylecombskeith(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Peitenpol in Utah |
Brian, there is a Piet fuselage, ribs, and tailfeathers on ebay right now. It is
located in Texas City. Good luck in your venture.
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Peitenpol in Utah
Hi everyone,
My name is Brian and I am new to this group. I live in Clinton, Utah and I was
interested in a Peitenpol for a new project. I had a Challenger II several years
ago and my brother and I finished a Sixchuter PPC last year. I like the looks,
and construction of the Air camper. I have a few questions I hope you all
could help me with. 1. Where is the best place to obtain full sets of plans
and assembly instructions? 2. Would it be wise to buy a plane that someone else
has started? 3. Does anyone know of any planes started/unfinished for sale.
4. Can you buy a kit that includes the needed wood sizes? 5. Does anyone know
if there are any builders, or Piets in Utah? I am 210lb pilot, I would like
to sit in one to get the feel if I am going to invest the time and money. I
have read a lot regarding the plane and the different engines guys have used.
Would a C-90 be to large with my weight, or would a Continental A-65 be be tter
suited? Are the Rotax engines too light for the
plane and do they have enough torque at the lower RPMS? I'm sure if I get started
on this project I will have many questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Brian Jardine
Clinton, Utah
801-499-6210
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Peitenpol in Utah |
Brian,
Go to: http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/ for the plans.
The best place for "assembly instructions" is right here on the Pietenpol list.
Aircraft Spruce sells a wood kit but there have been mixed reviews on it. I don't
have any first hand knowledge.
Steve Eldridge is a well known Pietenpoler who lives in Utah and has built a
beautiful A-65 powered Air Camper. He pops up on the list occasionally.
People MUCH larger than 210 pounds have built Pietenpols. They are
quite roomy.
Engine choice might be more dependant on your field elevation than your body weight.
A Rotax would be too light.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: bpjardine(at)comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 6:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Peitenpol in Utah
Hi everyone,
My name is Brian and I am new to this group. I live in Clinton, Utah and I was
interested in a Peitenpol for a new project. I had a Challenger II several
years ago and my brother and I finished a Sixchuter PPC last year. I like the
looks, and construction of the Air camper. I have a few questions I hope you all
could help me with. 1. Where is the best place to obtain full sets of plans
and assembly instructions? 2. Would it be wise to buy a plane that someone
else has started? 3. Does anyone know of any planes started/unfinished for sale.
4. Can you buy a kit that includes the needed wood sizes? 5. Does anyone
know if there are any builders, or Piets in Utah? I am 210lb pilot, I would like
to sit in one to get the feel if I am going to invest the time and money.
I have read a lot regarding the plane and the different engines guys have used.
Would a C-90 be to large with my weight, or would a Continental A-65 be be
tter suited? Are the Rotax engines too light for the plane and do they have
enough torque at the lower RPMS? I'm sure if I get started on this project I
will have many questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Brian Jardine
Clinton, Utah
801-499-6210
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Peitenpol in Utah |
Brian:
You can order the plans direct from Don Pietenpol, the son of Bernard Pietenpol who designed the original AirCamper. Here is a link to his web site ==>http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/.
Buying a plane that someone else started would certainly save time, but look at
all of the fun of building you would miss. I currently into my second year of
building and I enjoy it even more now than when I first started.
Aircraft Spruce in California has a wood kit available for the aircamper. There
is also a wood list on MYKITPLANE.com which is what I used. If you need the link
let me know and I will dig it up for you.
I would definitely get a copy of the 1932 flying and glider manual from the E.A.A.
(about $6 or $7), that has the reprint of the original 1932 series of articles
on building the aircamper. If you haven't already seen the publication, it
has all of the plans and building information. It will definitely give you a
good overview of what the Pietenpol is all about.
Good Luck,
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Peitenpol in Utah
Hi everyone,
My name is Brian and I am new to this group. I live in Clinton, Utah and I was
interested in a Peitenpol for a new project. I had a Challenger II several years
ago and my brother and I finished a Sixchuter PPC last year. I like the looks,
and construction of the Air camper. I have a few questions I hope you all
could help me with. 1. Where is the best place to obtain full sets of plans
and assembly instructions? 2. Would it be wise to buy a plane that someone else
has started? 3. Does anyone know of any planes started/unfinished for sale.
4. Can you buy a kit that includes the needed wood sizes? 5. Does anyone know
if there are any builders, or Piets in Utah? I am 210lb pilot, I would like
to sit in one to get the feel if I am going to invest the time and money. I
have read a lot regarding the plane and the different engines guys have used.
Would a C-90 be to large with my weight, or would a Continental A-65 be be tter
suited? Are the Rotax engines too light for the
plane and do they have enough torque at the lower RPMS? I'm sure if I get started
on this project I will have many questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Brian Jardine
Clinton, Utah
801-499-6210
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge Ply |
Peter,
The 1/16" plywood goes on the Top Only. It does not go around the leading
edge, and it does not go on the bottom of the wing. It does not get glued to
the top of the front spar, either. The plywood overlaps the leading about 3/4",
then after the adhesive is set, bevel the forward edge of the plywood, and
blend it in. You could scarf splice the edges of each of the four pieces above
a rib, but I made butt joints. The only place it is glued is along the
leading edge, and up each of the ribs. The aft edge of the plywood, just above
the
spar, will kind of warp up a little bit. Bevel the aft edge of the plywood
slightly, and when the fabric is installed and shrunk, it pulls the aft edge of
the plywood down very nicely. There is no need to wet the plywood, because it
is a very large radius along that portion of the airfoil, and it is no
problem at all to bend the plywood along the ribs. I used T88 on mine, and did
not
use any nails, or staples. I used quite a few clamps, but not too much clamp
pressure, so you don't squeeze all the adhesive out. I also used the black
rubber bunji chords around the leading edge, and the spar, between each rib,
but use temporary blocks to space the plywood up off the spar, so you don't get
slack in the plywood there.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Leading Edge Ply |
Chuck/Walt.
Thanks for the reply's.
I am using the Jim Wills version of the plans which call for the complete
leading edge to be covered with ply. I will combine the two ideas and see
how it goes. I'll butt joint the ply pieces at the ribs. That will make it
easier to bend the smaller pieces rather than try to bend the whole length.
Ain't life fun.
Cheers
Peter.
Wonthaggi, Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading Edge Ply
Peter,
The 1/16" plywood goes on the Top Only. It does not go around the leading
edge, and it does not go on the bottom of the wing. It does not get glued
to
the top of the front spar, either. The plywood overlaps the leading about
3/4",
then after the adhesive is set, bevel the forward edge of the plywood, and
blend it in. You could scarf splice the edges of each of the four pieces
above
a rib, but I made butt joints. The only place it is glued is along the
leading edge, and up each of the ribs. The aft edge of the plywood, just
above the
spar, will kind of warp up a little bit. Bevel the aft edge of the plywood
slightly, and when the fabric is installed and shrunk, it pulls the aft edge
of
the plywood down very nicely. There is no need to wet the plywood, because
it
is a very large radius along that portion of the airfoil, and it is no
problem at all to bend the plywood along the ribs. I used T88 on mine, and
did not
use any nails, or staples. I used quite a few clamps, but not too much
clamp
pressure, so you don't squeeze all the adhesive out. I also used the black
rubber bunji chords around the leading edge, and the spar, between each rib,
but use temporary blocks to space the plywood up off the spar, so you don't
get
slack in the plywood there.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Peitenpol in Utah |
Brian,
You really need to go talk to Steve Eldrige in Prove, actually he works in Prove
and lives in Spanish Fork, I think. He is about 210lb too. He's a great guy
and I'd bet he would show you his plane. Try his email address at steve(at)byu.edu.
A Rotax is to light for a Piet. You may want to try upgrading to a C-90 or O-200.
I hear they fly very good on a C-90 and at your weight it might have better
climb, Steve runs a C-65 and seems to fly all over the place in his.
Keep asking questions on the list but see if you go see Steve's plane.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: bpjardine(at)comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 4:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Peitenpol in Utah
Hi everyone,
My name is Brian and I am new to this group. I live in Clinton, Utah and I was
interested in a Peitenpol for a new project. I had a Challenger II several
years ago and my brother and I finished a Sixchuter PPC last year. I like the
looks, and construction of the Air camper. I have a few questions I hope you all
could help me with. 1. Where is the best place to obtain full sets of plans
and assembly instructions? 2. Would it be wise to buy a plane that someone
else has started? 3. Does anyone know of any planes started/unfinished for sale.
January 04, 2005 - February 01, 2005
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-eh