Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ei
February 01, 2005 - March 01, 2005
4. Can you buy a kit that includes the needed wood sizes? 5. Does anyone
know if there are any builders, or Piets in Utah? I am 210lb pilot, I would like
to sit in one to get the feel if I am going to invest the time and money.
I have read a lot regarding the plane and the different engines guys have used.
Would a C-90 be to large with my weight, or would a Continental A-65 be be
tter suited? Are the Rotax engines too light for the plane and do they have
enough torque at the lower RPMS? I'm sure if I get started on this project I
will have many questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Brian Jardine
Clinton, Utah
801-499-6210
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | A little something |
Don't say I don't give you guys something. :-) :-)
http://www.flightsongrecords.com/
Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Peitenpol in Utah |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
Hi Brian,
Welcome to the wonderful world of Pietenpols. Your questions have
already been pretty well answered, but there are a couple of extra
pieces of advice that might be helpful:
1. Buy Mike Cuy's video on building and flying his beautiful
Pietenpol, NX48MC. You can order it directly from Mike at:
Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov I think he charges $20 for it and it
contains a wealth of information, and more importantly, a lot of
INSPIRATION for those days when it seems you will never finish this
project. In addition to his video, Mike is a regular contributor to
this list and is a genuinely nice person, great builder and great pilot
2. If you don't already own them, buy the 4 Tony Bingelis Books
from EAA (I just naturally assume you are a member of the EAA - if not,
you should be). Those four books, The Sportplane Builder, Sportplane
Construction Techniques, Firewall Forward, and Tony Bingelis on Engines
cover 95% of what you will need to know to build this airplane. I also
found helpful the EAA's book on Aircraft Welding, and Aircraft
Construction Techniques: Wood
3. This is not a kitplane. There are good points and bad points
about this. The good points include such things as being able to modify
the design to fit your personal needs, and choose materials based on
your own tastes and budget (there are many Piets flying built from
aircraft grade materials and probably more flyig with lumber yard wood
and hardware store fittings). The bad points are that you will probably
make a lot of scrap pieces during the learning process. I know I did -
I probably made enough parts for nearly 2 complete Pietenpols. However,
remember that the FAA allows us to build our own planes for "Recreation
and Education". The recreation part will become obvious - you will
re-create the same part several times until you get it right :-).
Because it is not a kit you will have to do a lot more thinking than you
would to merely assemble parts made by a manufacturer. The plans have
some mistakes in them, and even when the information is correct, it is
sometimes presented in a way that requires a lot of head-scratching to
understand.
4. Save all your jigs. You never know when you might need them
again. I first flew my Pietenpol last October, and at the end of
November had a partial engine failure which led to a forced landing.
The off-airport landing resulted in some damage to the airframe which
I'm now about halfway through repairing. I am in the process of making
two new ribs for the right aileron and repairing one broken rib in the
right wing. I'm very glad that I kept the jig that I used to make the
original ribs so the new ribs will be identical to the originals.
5. Think through your choices carefully. As you begin to build
your airplane there are a number of fundamental choices to be made
(again, different form the typical kitplane): The basic choices every
Piet builder faces are:
a. What engine to use? If you buy the supplemental plans from Don
Pietenpo, you will have enough information to use either a Ford Model A,
a Corvair, or a Continental A-65. Any other choice will require more
work to develop yoru own engine mount design (not that this is too
difficult)
b. Long fuselage or short?
c. One-piece wing or 3-piece wing?
d. Split axle gear or straight axle?
e. Wire wheels or normal aircraft wheels
f. Fuel tank in the nose or in the centersection?
In addition to this forum, good information can be found by attending
Sun'n'Fun or Oshkosh for basic woodworking, fabric work, welding, and
metalworking skills., and certainly if possible try to attend the
Pietenpol fly-in at Brodhead Wisconsin. There you will find a good
array of Pietenpols displaying all the choices mentioned above (and
more) and you can see first hand which choices appeal to you
Good luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
Hi everyone,
My name is Brian and I am new to this group. I live in Clinton, Utah and
I was interested in a Peitenpol for a new project. I had a Challenger
II several years ago and my brother and I finished a Sixchuter PPC last
year. I like the looks, and construction of the Air camper. I have a few
questions I hope you all could help me with. 1. Where is the best place
to obtain full sets of plans and assembly instructions? 2. Would it be
wise to buy a plane that someone else has started? 3. Does anyone know
of any planes started/unfinished for sale. 4. Can you buy a kit that
includes the needed wood sizes? 5. Does anyone know if there are any
builders, or Piets in Utah? I am 210lb pilot, I would like to sit in
one to get the feel if I am going to invest the time and money. I have
read a lot regarding the plane and the different engines guys have used.
Would a C-90 be to large with my weight, or would a Continental A-65 be
be tter suited? Are the Rotax engines too light for the plane and do
they have enough torque at the lower RPMS? I'm sure if I get started on
this project I will have many questions. Any help would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks.
Brian Jardine
Clinton, Utah
801-499-6210
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Peitenpol in Utah |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I'm still here! I got behind in my reading and just had to cut 700
messages and start over. Brian, and others have a standing invitation
to come to look at my airplane. It isn't the beauty queen some say it
is, but it is airworthy and I fly it a lot during the summer, and on the
warm days in winter. I have 300 hours on it now and have been flying it
since 1997. There is no cheaper way in to the sky- and people dig the
old time looks, and sound. Add smoke and you have got a head turner
everywhere you go. (It just takes a while to get there!) I've still
got lots of Piet caps if anyone wants one. Thinking of heading back to
Brodhead this year again. Working on my Stinson 108-2. Both wings are
covered. Fuse is next. We started an EAA chapter a year ago that has
about 25 people attending every month.
There is another piet project on the airport that has been sitting for a
year or two since purchase from another party.
Steve E
Spanish Fork, UT
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
bpjardine(at)comcast.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Peitenpol in Utah
Hi everyone,
My name is Brian and I am new to this group. I live in Clinton, Utah and
I was interested in a Peitenpol for a new project. I had a Challenger
II several years ago and my brother and I finished a Sixchuter PPC last
year. I like the looks, and construction of the Air camper. I have a few
questions I hope you all could help me with. 1. Where is the best place
to obtain full sets of plans and assembly instructions? 2. Would it be
wise to buy a plane that someone else has started? 3. Does anyone know
of any planes started/unfinished for sale. 4. Can you buy a kit that
includes the needed wood sizes? 5. Does anyone know if there are any
builders, or Piets in Utah? I am 210lb pilot, I would like to sit in
one to get the feel if I am going to invest the time and money. I have
read a lot regarding the plane and the different engines guys have used.
Would a C-90 be to large with my weight, or would a Continental A-65 be
be tter suited? Are the Rotax engines too light for the plane and do
they have enough torque at the lower RPMS? I'm sure if I get started on
this project I will have many questions. Any help would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks.
Brian Jardine
Clinton, Utah
801-499-6210
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Japanese Pietenpol Air Camper |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
EXCEPT that it cuts into your full-scale version's building time. I
bought some beautiful plans for a 1/4 scale Piet model over a year ago,
looked them over carefully, and decided to just start building the one
I'll fly from inside. I'll keep those plans and the two R/Cs which are
"flying" a few inches below the ceiling of my back porch, for the day I
lose my ability to fly full-scale. OR maybe I'll come across a good R/C
instructor distinct from the expert who wrecked my first plane!
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Japanese Pietenpol Air Camper |
ahhhh.... things are different here in AZ. when the temps in the shop
during summer time reach 117 it's pretty much unbearable to be in there.
sooooo.... it's the perfect time to build models inside.
I wish our weather wasn't so severe that I COULD build for 12 mos.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Japanese Pietenpol Air Camper
>
> EXCEPT that it cuts into your full-scale version's building time. I
> bought some beautiful plans for a 1/4 scale Piet model over a year ago,
> looked them over carefully, and decided to just start building the one
> I'll fly from inside. I'll keep those plans and the two R/Cs which are
> "flying" a few inches below the ceiling of my back porch, for the day I
> lose my ability to fly full-scale. OR maybe I'll come across a good R/C
> instructor distinct from the expert who wrecked my first plane!
>
>
> Mark Hodgson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Fisher <mfisher(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | 2 Cyl. opposed Rotax |
2004)
There was a Mike Fisher who was involved in the tests of a two-cylinder
opposed four stroke Rotax engine. Zat you?
Carl,
Thanks for your inquiry. I am not the Rotax Mike Fisher. There are
quite a few of us around. One reason 2 Cyl. opposed engines are not more widely
employed is the large change in crankcase volume caused by both pistons moving
in and out at the same time. The large crankcases on successful versions
of this design, such as the BMW motorcycle, are there for a reason.
Some years ago, Franklin came out with a 60HP 2 Cyl, horizontally opposed,
certified engine that would be okay for a Piet with a long mount. These
unloved powerplants and parts are available at low cost. The Pietenpol likes
a long, slow turning prop that moves a lot of air at low speed. The Model A Fords
and A65 Continentals are better at this than the direct drive Corvairs, Franklins
and various modern automobile engines.
Cordially,
Mike Fisher
Talkeetna, Alaska
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Virus, Modern Ford Power |
Hi Mike,
This virus - whorms are kind of out of control, they use the address book of any
e-mail and beguin "working" there are some ways to handle them:
Once in a while (about every week) scan your drive to "clean" it from virus/whorms.
Also have a spam filter and delete all the mails with a 21 to about 50 kb attachmentes.
Never open any attachment that is not scaned or come from a secure email...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Michael Fisher wrote:
Piet List Members,
I keep getting lengthy, virus infected attachments from Michael D. Cuy to my personal
mailbox. When I asked Mr. Cuy to disinfect the attachment of the "W32Beagle.AY@mm"
virus to reassure my very picky Norton utility, he responded by advising
me to seek assistance by clicking on the "HELP" button.
Perhaps this is not the Michael D. Cuy who is a member of the Pietenpol List. Does
anyone know anything about this?
On a more interesting note, many Pieters are airframe guys; a smaller number are
engine guys. A few like D. J. Vegh and Larry Harrison are both. I am primarily
an engine guy who has a 116 cubic inch Ford Escort engine hanging, inverted,
in a mockup Pietenpol Scout mount on my garage wall. It is currently belt-driven
by a large electric motor to investigate the pressure and scavenge oiling
and fuel injection systems. The truncated oil pan (now on top and no longer a
sump) has a temporary Plexiglas cover through which oil flows can be observed.
Interesting stuff, slow progress, not actively looking for an airframe yet.
Sure would be fun to have it running at Brodhead next July.
Happy landings,
Mike Fisher
Talkeetna, Alaska
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com> |
| Subject: | leading edge cover |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on elrond.itctel.com
I am looking for some ideas on leading edge covers. 1/16 plywood is not
available in my state and is very expensive to ship as well as buy from
suppliers. I purchased some aluminum valley material to use but can't
figure out how to attach it to the wood. I know there are people who have
used aluminum. Could some one respond as to how the attachment was carried
out. Has anyone used the 6 ply tag board mentioned by Bernard P. in some of
the literature that is available? Would it hold its shape well enough to do
what ever it is supposed to do. It will be hangered at my farm so it won't
be getting wet and at the speed Pietenpols fly and the noise they make, I
can't imagine bird strikes being a problem. Thanks for any information you
are able to share with me.
Ralph
At Raymond
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bpjardine(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | BRS for Pietenpol |
Getting started with a Pietenpol project, I have lots of questions. Other light
aircraft, and ultralight communities I have been involved with used BRS chutes
on the planes. In fact most ultralights seem to have them now days. Has anyone
ever installed one on a Piet? I'm sure it would take away from the nostalgic
look, and I don't know if the airframe could take the stress of a chute deployment.
If someone has used a chute, where was it attached? Since the plane
has been around and flying for 75 years, needless to say it's an airworthy design.
Has there been any documentation of structural failures or incidents? My
wife has concerns about a plane being built out of wood and fabric. She didn't
realize that until the mid 1900's most planes were wood and fabric. I have to
resolve her concerns before I can dip into the "kitty" for some plane money.
I am sure you all have been there once or twice. Thanks to all those who responded
to my first posting. I received lots of valuabl
e info.
Brian
Clinton, UT
Getting started with a Pietenpol project, I have lots of questions.Other
light aircraft, and ultralight communities I have been involved with usedBRS
chutes onthe planes. In fact most ultralights seem to have them
now days. Has anyone ever installed one on a Piet? I'm sure it would take
away from the nostalgic look, and I don't know if the airframe could take
thestress of a chute deployment. If someone has used a chute, where
was it attached? Since the plane has been around and flying for 75 years, needless
to say it's an airworthy design. Has there been any documentation of structural
failures or incidents? My wife has concerns about a plane being
built out of wood and fabric. She didn't realize that until the mid 1900'smost
planes were wood and fabric. I have to resolve her concerns before I can
dip into the "kitty" for some plane money. I am sure you all have been there
once or twice. Thanks to all those who responded to
my first posting. I received lots of valuable info.
Brian
Clinton, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: BRS for Pietenpol |
0B9D0E069F0D(at)comcast.net>
Brian
I looked long and hard at this decision. BRS has a design worked out that
has been used so if you contact them they can help you with quite a slick
solution. The unit is mounted in the centre section of the wing so a centre
section fuel tank can not be used and a cowl tank will probably be your
choice. I ultimately did NOT buy one only because the freight companies
decided to retire on my shipment. The problem is related to the "rocket"
that launches it is considered hazardous goods. I live in Canada and had no
problem getting the import permits. The freight companies wanted half as
much as the system cost to haul it. So I made a cost benefit/decision and
didn't go with it. Hopefully I will not regret it. The case for it is of
course as ; 1. A broken propeller in flight and the engine parts company
with the plane moving the C of G so far back the plane is un flyable, 2.
Engine failure in a circumstance where a dead stick landing is not likely
survivable. Both these circumstances are rare but people die every year
from them. Structural failure of the plane I would place as a distant 3 rd
risk and I personally feel that is a risk that I can live with but the
first 2 are more probable but remote. Obviously good construction, and
maintenance can improve your luck in this regard.
Now I am sure some will ridicule the idea again as they did when I inquired
about it because; 1. Bernie Pietenpol didn't use one,
2, Good pilots don't need these kind of things. Then again I think you will
notice that there are so seat belt attachment points called out on the
plans either.
So what I am saying is; make the decision that makes you and your wife
comfortable, it is your neck, not somebody else's on the forum
Les
>Getting started with a Pietenpol project, I have lots of questions. Other
>light aircraft, and ultralight communities I have been involved with used
>BRS chutes on the planes. In fact most ultralights seem to have them now
>days. Has anyone ever installed one on a Piet? I'm sure it would take
>away from the nostalgic look, and I don't know if the airframe could take
>the stress of a chute deployment. If someone has used a chute, where was
>it attached? Since the plane has been around and flying for 75 years,
>needless to say it's an airworthy design. Has there been any documentation
>of structural failures or incidents? My wife has concerns about a plane
>being built out of wood and fabric. She didn't realize that until the mid
>1900's most planes were wood and fabric. I have to resolve her concerns
>before I can dip into the "kitty" for some plane money. I am sure you all
>have been there once or twice. Thanks to all those who responded to my
>first posting. I received lots of valuable info.
>Brian
>Clinton, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | BRS for Pietenpol |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
I also looked at this decision when I was starting to build my Piet.
The deciding factor for me (apart from spending $3,000 for something I
hope to never use) was adding 30 to 40 lbs to the empty weight of the
airplane. I worked hard to save OUNCES from the structure, knowing that
every pound counts. If I was going to add 30 lbs to the airframe, it
was going to be in something that I could use more frequently (and with
greater importance for safety) , like a radio and transponder. On my
recent forced landing, I used the radio to let the plane I had been
flying formation with know that I was going down. A BRS would have done
me no good whatsoever - the damage the off-airport landing caused was
certainly less than it would have been had I come down under a
parachute.
Yes, there are situations where a BRS might be the best way to save your
life. A personal parachute is not a very good option for a Pietenpol -
I tried to wear one for my first flight but couldn't get in (or out) of
the cockpit with one on. It would be almost impossible for a passenger
in the front cockpit to egress the airplane with a 'chute on. Besides,
most Pietenpol flights are made at an altitude where a parachute
probably would not be able to fully open before impact (I'm still
talking about a backpack or seatpack 'chute - the BRS with its rocket
deployment can open much faster). But what is the risk of such a
situation occurring, and what other ways exist to mitigate that risk?
Basically, a decision like this gets down to risk analysis. I work in
product development for a medical device company, and we constantly use
Failure Modes and Effects Analysis (FMEA) tools to identify and mitigate
the risk of failure with our devices. In such an analysis, a failure
mode is identified ("Engine falls off in flight"), and then every
possible scenario that could cause such a failure is envisioned ("prop
blade breaks, causing imbalance", "engine mount breaks"). The
probability and severity of such a failure are assessed, along with the
chance of detection prior to failure. Each of these are given a number
rating, on a 0 to 5 scale, with 0 being "no problem" and 5 being
"catastrophe", and the probability, severity and detection ratings are
multiplied together to give an overall rating. Then you concentrate on
figuring out ways to mitigate the ones with high ratings. For example,
in the situation given below, to prevent the engine falling off due to
prop blade breakage, a good pre-flight inspection should turn up any
cracks. Pull on the blades and see if they deflect unusually. Thump
them to see if they sound the same, etc.
Flying ANY airplane is an exercise in risk management. I find it
interesting that the Cirrus SR20 and SR22 (the only production aircraft
with BRS parachutes) have a none too good safety record. A number of
people have died in Cirrus airplanes, BRS or not. Probably more than
have died in Pietenpols. Obviously, the safest airplane is one that has
so much safety equipment on board that it is too heavy to get off the
ground. According to the NTSB records, the Pietenpol has a pretty good
safety record. It is sort of like a J-3 Cub - it is so safe it can just
barely kill you.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
Brian
I looked long and hard at this decision. BRS has a design worked out
that has been used so if you contact them they can help you with quite a
slick solution. The unit is mounted in the centre section of the wing so
a centre section fuel tank can not be used and a cowl tank will probably
be your choice. I ultimately did NOT buy one only because the freight
companies decided to retire on my shipment. The problem is related to
the "rocket" that launches it is considered hazardous goods. I live in
Canada and had no problem getting the import permits. The freight
companies wanted half as much as the system cost to haul it. So I made a
cost benefit/decision and didn't go with it. Hopefully I will not regret
it. The case for it is of course as ; 1. A broken propeller in flight
and the engine parts company with the plane moving the C of G so far
back the plane is un flyable, 2. Engine failure in a circumstance where
a dead stick landing is not likely survivable. Both these circumstances
are rare but people die every year from them. Structural failure of the
plane I would place as a distant 3 rd risk and I personally feel that is
a risk that I can live with but the first 2 are more probable but
remote. Obviously good construction, and maintenance can improve your
luck in this regard.
Now I am sure some will ridicule the idea again as they did when I
inquired about it because; 1. Bernie Pietenpol didn't use one,
2, Good pilots don't need these kind of things. Then again I think you
will notice that there are so seat belt attachment points called out on
the plans either.
So what I am saying is; make the decision that makes you and your wife
comfortable, it is your neck, not somebody else's on the forum
Les
Getting started with a Pietenpol project, I have lots of questions.
Other light aircraft, and ultralight communities I have been involved
with used BRS chutes on the planes. In fact most ultralights seem to
have them now days. Has anyone ever installed one on a Piet? I'm sure
it would take away from the nostalgic look, and I don't know if the
airframe could take the stress of a chute deployment. If someone has
used a chute, where was it attached? Since the plane has been around and
flying for 75 years, needless to say it's an airworthy design. Has there
been any documentation of structural failures or incidents? My wife has
concerns about a plane being built out of wood and fabric. She didn't
realize that until the mid 1900's most planes were wood and fabric. I
have to resolve her concerns before I can dip into the "kitty" for some
plane money. I am sure you all have been there once or twice. Thanks to
all those who responded to my first posting. I received lots of valuable
info.
Brian
Clinton, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BRS for Pietenpol |
<020320050457.2512.4201AF34000E9D77000009D022069997350A02070B9D0E069F0D(at)comcast.net>
Brian,
I was told by an experienced and knowledgeable Piet builder that nobody has ever
died in a Piet that crashed due to structural failure. He was emphasizing the
fact that the plane is very well built with a large design safety factor.
That's an awesome record for a design with over 70 years of history. This may
relieve your wife's concerns about flying in a structure built of wood and fabric.
Here's another interesting testament to wooden aircraft. The all wood
Sterman biplane is rated at plus and minus 9 g's. Hope this helps.
Greg Bacon
Central Missouri
----- Original Message -----
From: bpjardine(at)comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 10:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: BRS for Pietenpol
Getting started with a Pietenpol project, I have lots of questions. Other light
aircraft, and ultralight communities I have been involved with used BRS chutes
on the planes. In fact most ultralights seem to have them now days. Has anyone
ever installed one on a Piet? I'm sure it would take away from the nostalgic
look, and I don't know if the airframe could take the stress of a chute deployment.
If someone has used a chute, where was it attached? Since the plane
has been around and flying for 75 years, needless to say it's an airworthy design.
Has there been any documentation of structural failures or incidents?
My wife has concerns about a plane being built out of wood and fabric. She didn't
realize that until the mid 1900's most planes were wood and fabric. I have
to resolve her concerns before I can dip into the "kitty" for some plane money.
I am sure you all have been there once or twice. Thanks to all those who responded
to my first posting. I received lots of valuable info.
Brian
Clinton, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | BRS for Pietenpol |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Brian,
Are you the same fellow that hangared at heber valley in John L. hanger
with a Stinson?
stevee
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
bpjardine(at)comcast.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: BRS for Pietenpol
Getting started with a Pietenpol project, I have lots of questions.
Other light aircraft, and ultralight communities I have been involved
with used BRS chutes on the planes. In fact most ultralights seem to
have them now days. Has anyone ever installed one on a Piet? I'm sure
it would take away from the nostalgic look, and I don't know if the
airframe could take the stress of a chute deployment. If someone has
used a chute, where was it attached? Since the plane has been around and
flying for 75 years, needless to say it's an airworthy design. Has there
been any documentation of structural failures or incidents? My wife has
concerns about a plane being built out of wood and fabric. She didn't
realize that until the mid 1900's most planes were wood and fabric. I
have to resolve her concerns before I can dip into the "kitty" for some
plane money. I am sure you all have been there once or twice. Thanks to
all those who responded to my first posting. I received lots of valuable
info.
Brian
Clinton, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge cover |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
Check out:
http://www.boulterplywood.com/
Which claims to have Birch "aircraft grade" (they mean for model
airplanes, but doubt if this makes a difference for the leading edge),
1/16" 50"X50" sheets. I'm planning to use that for my leading edge
covers years from now when I get to that point, assuming the company is
still in business (has been for a long, long time).
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
<001301c50a03$916cbf50$9043040a@HPDesktop>
| Subject: | Re: BRS for Pietenpol |
while I have heard the same about no Piets going down due to structural failure,
I do know of one case right here at my home field (Falcon Field - FFZ) where
back in the 70's a Piet went down due to the elevator control system failing.
The plane went into a nose dive on downwind and killed the pilot..... might
as well have been a structural failure because at the point the control system
failed it was all over except the screaming. A BRS woulda been nice (bot
not yet in use in the 70's)
I too have often thought about a BRS. I opted to not use one and just make sure
that my plane is as safe as I can possibly make it.... but I sometimes still
wonder if I shoulda put one in.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Bacon
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BRS for Pietenpol
Brian,
I was told by an experienced and knowledgeable Piet builder that nobody has ever
died in a Piet that crashed due to structural failure. He was emphasizing
the fact that the plane is very well built with a large design safety factor.
That's an awesome record for a design with over 70 years of history. This may
relieve your wife's concerns about flying in a structure built of wood and
fabric. Here's another interesting testament to wooden aircraft. The all wood
Sterman biplane is rated at plus and minus 9 g's. Hope this helps.
Greg Bacon
Central Missouri
----- Original Message -----
From: bpjardine(at)comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 10:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: BRS for Pietenpol
Getting started with a Pietenpol project, I have lots of questions. Other light
aircraft, and ultralight communities I have been involved with used BRS chutes
on the planes. In fact most ultralights seem to have them now days. Has
anyone ever installed one on a Piet? I'm sure it would take away from the nostalgic
look, and I don't know if the airframe could take the stress of a chute
deployment. If someone has used a chute, where was it attached? Since the plane
has been around and flying for 75 years, needless to say it's an airworthy
design. Has there been any documentation of structural failures or incidents?
My wife has concerns about a plane being built out of wood and fabric. She didn't
realize that until the mid 1900's most planes were wood and fabric. I have
to resolve her concerns before I can dip into the "kitty" for some plane money.
I am sure you all have been there once or twice. Thanks to all those who
responded to my first posting. I received lots of valuable info.
Brian
Clinton, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edge cover |
I was able to buy "aircraft grade" 1/16" thick plywood in the 50"x50"
sheets from stock at a local specialty building products company in western
Canada called Windsor Plywood. It was in stock, I didn't ask what it was
usually used for but I would assume for its bending properties. I also
bought some clear straight fine grained fir to use in selected areas of
construction (trailing edge, leading edge. As I was building it as a single
seater due to my height I decided to tolerate the slight weight increase. I
also added a radio, mode C transponder, alternator and battery and still
came in at 650# with oil. I would assume that most better building supply
stores (not Home Depot) could get it if they don't have it, at least in a
bigger city
>
>Check out:
>
>http://www.boulterplywood.com/
>
>Which claims to have Birch "aircraft grade" (they mean for model
>airplanes, but doubt if this makes a difference for the leading edge),
>1/16" 50"X50" sheets. I'm planning to use that for my leading edge
>covers years from now when I get to that point, assuming the company is
>still in business (has been for a long, long time).
>
>Mark Hodgson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Blackwell <aerialphotos(at)dp.net> |
| Subject: | Re: BRS for Pietenpol |
There are a lot of things you can do to maybe ease your wife's
concerns. Some may take some time though so be patient.
First a BRS has some real advantages. The most likely advantage is a
mid air. They do happen and it may be one of the biggest causes of an
unflyable airplane. Number two on the list of reasons to have one is a
stall spin on base to final. Its the only thing that can get you out of
that situation with a chance to still be breathing. Far better to
prevent that from happening in the first place but everyone that has
been involved in one has figured it wouldn't happen to them.
You should know that the airplanes on which it was certified and
installed usually have a VERY high insurance rate. Often they are
popped too quick and when the handle is pulled on many of these
airplanes, the pilots handbook is quite clear in that it totals the
airplane. You are ok, but it never was designed to get you an undamaged
airplane at the end of it.
The downside is the cost, weight and resourse allocation. Would you be
reducing risk even more by spending available funds on something that
might have a greater impact on safety? If money is no object, you don't
have to worry about that, but then again if money is no object who would
still be building a peit? Many would I am sure (no flames here) but one
of the biggest advantages to the Piet has to be the fun per dollar ration.
Other suggestions to help out. Take her to an airport that has a number
of older airplanes. Ask the owners to show off their pride and joy to
her and let her sit in one, touch the fabric, see that what you intend
to do isn't so rare. Education is the key.
Second get her involved. Let her see you are not doing something
stupid. Let her see first hand your attitudes toward safety, your
attention to detail and your dedication to learning to make this as safe
as practical. Just like any pilot, you can not just talk to safety
talk. You have to let her see you walk the walk as well and in time she
will likely relax.
Mark
bpjardine(at)comcast.net wrote:
> Getting started with a Pietenpol project, I have lots of
> questions. Other light aircraft, and ultralight communities I have
> been involved with used BRS chutes on the planes. In fact most
> ultralights seem to have them now days. Has anyone ever installed one
> on a Piet? I'm sure it would take away from the nostalgic look, and I
> don't know if the airframe could take the stress of a chute
> deployment. If someone has used a chute, where was it attached? Since
> the plane has been around and flying for 75 years, needless to say
> it's an airworthy design. Has there been any documentation of
> structural failures or incidents? My wife has concerns about a plane
> being built out of wood and fabric. She didn't realize that until the
> mid 1900's most planes were wood and fabric. I have to resolve her
> concerns before I can dip into the "kitty" for some plane money. I am
> sure you all have been there once or twice. Thanks to all those who
> responded to my first posting. I received lots of valuable info.
> Brian
> Clinton, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernard Lefebvre" <napo(at)sympatico.ca> |
I'm just about ready ready to start on my wings (3 piece wing) for my piet. All
my ribs are done (wood). I'm thinking about using possible aluminum spars.Is
there anyone who has been building and now flying with such a set up?
Thanks for the input.
Bernie P. Lefebvre
Val d'Or, Quebec
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BRS for Pietenpol |
-Brian,
If I may add my two cents (?) worth here as you have
posted a very good question. I have no personal
experience with the BRS, but I have had a lot of
experience with parachutes both in the military and
having owned and worn emergency chuts during years of
acro. All parachutes can malfunction especially when
the falling body is not stabilized before deploying
the chute. If an airplane has a major airframe
failure (ie. lose a wing), the plane will most likely
spin or rotate or even tumble due to the much altered
aerodynamics. Perhaps the BRS is designed to avoid
complications from this scenerio. I know they have
been used successfully on light aircraft, but this
thing always concerned me. The Pietenpol is a very
well designed small aircraft. It is well over built
(if built correctly) and I can't think of any mishap
(except for a mid-air or throwing a prop blade) that
would cause a major failure. If the plane is built
right and inspected frequently, it should be very safe
to fly without much concern. The airplane does have a
wonderful track record (much better than many factory
built planes) and the fact that it is built out of
wood should only increase your feelings of security.
Wooden aircraft that are well built and maintained are
far more durable aircraft than metal or composit
aircraft. I have owned three antique airplanes (all
three were much older than their pilot) and all three
were just as sound now as they were when built. Most
acro aircraft are built with wooden wings (both spars
as well as the ribs) because they are much stronger
and lighter than all other materials and do not suffer
from fatigue like the others.
One other point I would like to make is; you take a
good sound airplane and a good experienced pilot who
inspects his plane frequently, your risk of having a
fatal accident on the highway far exceeds your risk of
having a fatal accident flying.
To make a long story short ( :) ), please reasure your
wife that there are some wooden aircraft still flying
after 80 years and all have survived most of their
pilots.
Best wishes,
Doc
>
> > Getting started with a Pietenpol project, I have
> lots of
> > questions. Other light aircraft, and ultralight
> communities I have
> > been involved with used BRS chutes on the planes.
>
> > Brian
> > Clinton, UT
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BRS for Pietenpol |
Hello DJ,
For what your message gives the idea, the problem was not about the design, was
about the quality of the builders welding ability (and probably preflight and/or
yearly inspection (sp?))
I have studied and bought countless of airplane plans and one thing I will positive
believe is that the Piet is the most well built (maybe the word "overbuilt"
will fit better here) I have put my eyes in...
This is why, and also this great friends/family in this list, I am still here.
Yes, I havent built one yet, but once I finish my 8th airplane I will do my
best to beguin one, I am 52 years old, so probably I have time left to built
at least 2 or 3 more projects, with God's permision, of course.
Since the last time I flew my Hang Glider weekly, (about 12 years ago) and started
in Ultralights, I havent used a chute since. Hope I will never need it
(knock wood).
I will rather invest that money in gasoline for emergency landing procedures practice
(deadstick spot landing), and fully learn the stall behavoir, than in
a chute.
Probably I am completly wrong, so please dont follow my advise :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower.
DJ Vegh wrote:
while I have heard the same about no Piets going down due to structural failure,
I do know of one case right here at my home field (Falcon Field - FFZ) where
back in the 70's a Piet went down due to the elevator control system failing.
The plane went into a nose dive on downwind and killed the pilot..... might
as well have been a structural failure because at the point the control system
failed it was all over except the screaming. A BRS woulda been nice (bot
not yet in use in the 70's)
I too have often thought about a BRS. I opted to not use one and just make sure
that my plane is as safe as I can possibly make it.... but I sometimes still
wonder if I shoulda put one in.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Bacon
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BRS for Pietenpol
Brian,
I was told by an experienced and knowledgeable Piet builder that nobody has ever
died in a Piet that crashed due to structural failure. He was emphasizing the
fact that the plane is very well built with a large design safety factor.
That's an awesome record for a design with over 70 years of history. This may
relieve your wife's concerns about flying in a structure built of wood and fabric.
Here's another interesting testament to wooden aircraft. The all wood
Sterman biplane is rated at plus and minus 9 g's. Hope this helps.
Greg Bacon
Central Missouri
----- Original Message -----
From: bpjardine(at)comcast.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: BRS for Pietenpol
Getting started with a Pietenpol project, I have lots of questions. Other light
aircraft, and ultralight communities I have been involved with used BRS chutes
on the planes. In fact most ultralights seem to have them now days. Has anyone
ever installed one on a Piet? I'm sure it would take away from the nostalgic
look, and I don't know if the airframe could take the stress of a chute deployment.
If someone has used a chute, where was it attached? Since the plane
has been around and flying for 75 years, needless to say it's an airworthy design.
Has there been any documentation of structural failures or incidents? My
wife has concerns about a plane being built out of wood and fabric. She didn't
realize that until the mid 1900's most planes were wood and fabric. I have to
resolve her concerns before I can dip into the "kitty" for some plane money.
I am sure you all have been there once or twice. Thanks to all those who responded
to my first posting. I received lots of valuabl
e info.
Brian
Clinton, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BRS for Pietenpol |
In a message dated 2/3/05 10:25:31 AM Central Standard Time, djv(at)imagedv.com
writes:
<< while I have heard the same about no Piets going down due to structural
failure, I do know of one case right here at my home field (Falcon Field - FFZ)
where back in the 70's a Piet went down due to the elevator control system
failing. The plane went into a nose dive on downwind and killed the pilot.....
might as well have been a structural failure because at the point the control
system failed it was all over except the screaming. A BRS woulda been nice
(bot not yet in use in the 70's) >>
DJ,
I looked up this incident that you referred to, in the data base that I
have stored in my computer. I have done an extensive search of all accidents
of Pietenpols from 1966 to the present.
Now, referr to the last line in the report. The Pietenpol aircraft
design Does NOT have a push pull rod in the control system, therefore this plane
was NOT built to the plans.
AMTRPL AIRCAMPER NNUM: 3586 LOCATION: MESA, AZ
DATE: 07/08/79 ACFT HRS: 450
YEAR OF MFG: 0 FATALS: 1 INJURIES:0
WX AND WIND: UNKNOWN DAY CLER G10 0 0/
ENGINE:
PILOT: TOTAL HRS.: 465 HRS IN MODEL: 125 LAST 90 DAYS: 30
CAUSES: ELEVATOR CONTROL SYSTEM
TYPE EVENT: UNCONTROLLED COLL WITH GRND DMG: DEMOLISHED
PHASE OF FLIGHT: IN TRAFFIC PATTERN-CIRCLING
CATEGORY: INADEQUATE MAINTENANCE
TYPE AIRCRAFT: MONOPLANE-HIGH/PARASOL WING
REMARKS: ELEVATOR PUSH-PULL ROD FAILED DUE TO METAL FATIGUE.
________________________________________________________________________________
<001301c50a03$916cbf50$9043040a@HPDesktop> <003701c50a0c$cb31a1c0$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com>
| Subject: | BRS for Pietenpol/ regarding elevator control failure |
To D.J. Vegh:
Do you know the location of the failure in the Pietenpol elevator control system
at Falcon Field? I"m sure we Pietenpol jockeys would like to know any details.
When I built my Pietenpol in 1970, I foolishly used aluminum pulleys in the forward
elevator cable circuit. After 159 hours, I discovered the forward "up" elevator
cable had frayed and I replaced it. Then, after 278 hours, the forward
"down" cable frayed. The failures were at the twin pulleys on the torque tube
just under the front of the rear seat. Probably dust combined with the aluminum
pulleys caused excessive cable wear at this point.
I then replaced both cables and substituted micarta pulleys for the aluminum ones.
The airplane now has 741 hours on it and no further cable problems have surfaced.
Needless to say, I keep a close watch on them. It is easy to check them
by feeling the cable as it runs through your fingers when the stick is moved
back and forth and this is a part of my pre-flight inspection. Should you snag
a finger with a broken wire, it is much better than losing elevator control
in flight! (But if one uses a piece of cloth instead of one's pinky for this procedure,
it will catch on a broken wire alerting you that there is a problem,
and the finger will be spared.)
My Pietenpol, like many of them, has no elevator trim for backup. And it has always
tended to be a bit nose-heavy in the air, solo or dual. An elevator control
failure is something I would rather not think about.
Even with a BRS, one must build and fly carefully, and practise diligent maintenance
because the BRS may not be able to save you in some circumstances. The words
of Major Hereward deHavilland (brother of Sir Geoffrey) come to mind:
"The only way for a flying man to keep alive [is] to be apprehensive." (Quoted
from THE LONELY SEA AND THE SKY by Sir Francis Chichester, 1964.)
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge cover |
Ralph,
Your life is at stake here. Use 1/16" plywood for the top of the leading
edge cover.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Wichita KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum spars |
Bernie,
Like I said in my last post - Your life is at stake here...use the wood
spars, and carry on with the construction of a Very Fine design.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Wichita KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BRS for Pietenpol |
may have been a GN-1 then. GN-1's have a push-pull rod connected to a
walking beam.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BRS for Pietenpol
>
> In a message dated 2/3/05 10:25:31 AM Central Standard Time,
> djv(at)imagedv.com
> writes:
>
> << while I have heard the same about no Piets going down due to structural
> failure, I do know of one case right here at my home field (Falcon Field -
> FFZ)
> where back in the 70's a Piet went down due to the elevator control system
> failing. The plane went into a nose dive on downwind and killed the
> pilot.....
> might as well have been a structural failure because at the point the
> control
> system failed it was all over except the screaming. A BRS woulda been
> nice
> (bot not yet in use in the 70's) >>
>
> DJ,
> I looked up this incident that you referred to, in the data base that I
> have stored in my computer. I have done an extensive search of all
> accidents
> of Pietenpols from 1966 to the present.
> Now, referr to the last line in the report. The Pietenpol aircraft
> design Does NOT have a push pull rod in the control system, therefore
> this plane
> was NOT built to the plans.
>
>
> AMTRPL AIRCAMPER NNUM: 3586 LOCATION: MESA, AZ
> DATE: 07/08/79 ACFT HRS: 450
> YEAR OF MFG: 0 FATALS: 1 INJURIES:0
> WX AND WIND: UNKNOWN DAY CLER G10 0 0/
> ENGINE:
> PILOT: TOTAL HRS.: 465 HRS IN MODEL: 125 LAST 90 DAYS: 30
> CAUSES: ELEVATOR CONTROL SYSTEM
> TYPE EVENT: UNCONTROLLED COLL WITH GRND DMG: DEMOLISHED
> PHASE OF FLIGHT: IN TRAFFIC PATTERN-CIRCLING
> CATEGORY: INADEQUATE MAINTENANCE
> TYPE AIRCRAFT: MONOPLANE-HIGH/PARASOL WING
> REMARKS: ELEVATOR PUSH-PULL ROD FAILED DUE TO METAL FATIGUE.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
All I can say is "Why?"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bernard
Lefebvre
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum spars
I'm just about ready ready to start on my wings (3 piece wing) for my piet.
All my ribs are done (wood). I'm thinking about using possible aluminum
spars.Is there anyone who has been building and now flying with such a set
up?
Thanks for the input.
Bernie P. Lefebvre
Val d'Or, Quebec
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAsAhQlnOJNbe/EkgN61FvLKz+/OceHYwIURK/scwsEoJFWMKRclDavzksOUSw=
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Elevator failure |
Several years ago the old IPA newsletter had a write up about a fatal
crash because of elevator spar failure. The reason that it happened was
the builder omitted the steel strap that tied the elev. horn to the
middle beam. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
I rechecked the float level on my Stromberg NA-S3. It was about 1/2" high.
Hopefully the black smoke will go away now, Obviously I will have to reset
the idle.
I need a good cap for a Case mag for a Continental if anybody has one. One
of my caps is moisture sensitive.
Les
awaiting registration numbers so I can buy insurance and then test fly when
the weather cooperates.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Howdy, Pieters;
Well, I'm on a beanie-weenie and saltine cracker week (my wife is out of
town, in Oregon for a week to visit our daughters) so I'm catching up on
reading and emails, living on beer and microwave popcorn (the dog and I
slurped down all the refrigerator leftovers in the first few hours my wife
was gone). I notice quite a few builder updates about this time last year,
probably due to most folks being snowed in or shut out of the shop due to
wx., but not many updates yet this year. It's been somewhat quiet on the
list.
So... how about those who are building, posting a word or two on their
latest progress? Pull away from the Super Bowl hype and let the rest of us
know how your Aircampers are coming along.
Me, my latest news is that a box arrived from Aircraft Spruce yesterday
containing my new carburetor air box/filter to replace the one that got
accordioned in the nose-over, plus a new carb heat knob and cable (sorry,
Corky... I didn't like the dinky little brass knob unit). I was a bit
surprised to find that the carb heat damper lever on the air box has detents
on it (a series of notched "clicks" on the arm guide). Not sure what that's
for since carb heat is usually all "on" or all "off" and not anything in
between, but what the heck.
All I need now is a short piece of aluminum tube, slip it into the bender,
put on the nuts, flare the ends (EAA chapter 35 has an aircraft flare tool),
and the fuel system on NX41CC is complete and ready to fire the engine
again. This to replace the feed from the fuel tank to the gascolator,
through the lower firewall, that got kinked in the nose-over.
So, builders- how are y'all doing? Tom Brant? Jim Markle? Corky and
"Repiet"? Anybody? I see that there were no Piets at Urbana, IL last
year... if the Lord wills, maybe 41CC will be on the flightline this year...
Bert Conoly? Anybody else planning to make the SAA event at Urbana?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: project updates |
Bert Checking In!
Still waiting on the weather - The darn winds have been up for three
freakin weeks now. I HOPE to get a chance to fly N327BC tomorrow. Cross
yer fingers. now.
I got a nice E-mail back from Dwayne Obrien (of the group Little Texas) .
Everybody go to this website- I'm telling you these guys are tremendous! I
do music - have for 28 years. Trust Me! I will not steer you wrong! This
is good , good stuff.
http://www.flightsongrecords.com/
Thanks Cliff for finding his CD!
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: project updates
>
> Howdy, Pieters;
>
> Well, I'm on a beanie-weenie and saltine cracker week (my wife is out of
> town, in Oregon for a week to visit our daughters) so I'm catching up on
> reading and emails, living on beer and microwave popcorn (the dog and I
> slurped down all the refrigerator leftovers in the first few hours my wife
> was gone). I notice quite a few builder updates about this time last
year,
> probably due to most folks being snowed in or shut out of the shop due to
> wx., but not many updates yet this year. It's been somewhat quiet on the
> list.
>
> So... how about those who are building, posting a word or two on their
> latest progress? Pull away from the Super Bowl hype and let the rest of
us
> know how your Aircampers are coming along.
>
> Me, my latest news is that a box arrived from Aircraft Spruce yesterday
> containing my new carburetor air box/filter to replace the one that got
> accordioned in the nose-over, plus a new carb heat knob and cable (sorry,
> Corky... I didn't like the dinky little brass knob unit). I was a bit
> surprised to find that the carb heat damper lever on the air box has
detents
> on it (a series of notched "clicks" on the arm guide). Not sure what
that's
> for since carb heat is usually all "on" or all "off" and not anything in
> between, but what the heck.
>
> All I need now is a short piece of aluminum tube, slip it into the bender,
> put on the nuts, flare the ends (EAA chapter 35 has an aircraft flare
tool),
> and the fuel system on NX41CC is complete and ready to fire the engine
> again. This to replace the feed from the fuel tank to the gascolator,
> through the lower firewall, that got kinked in the nose-over.
>
> So, builders- how are y'all doing? Tom Brant? Jim Markle? Corky and
> "Repiet"? Anybody? I see that there were no Piets at Urbana, IL last
> year... if the Lord wills, maybe 41CC will be on the flightline this
year...
> Bert Conoly? Anybody else planning to make the SAA event at Urbana?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
Who's playing in the super bowl, anyway? Oh well, who cares....
Max Davis and I rolled it out into the driveway today and stuck the tail
spinach on.....that was fun. VERY pleased with the "olde timey" look of the
wheels....
Recently dissassembled and rebuilt the Stearman type fuel level guage I got
from AS&S and it's gonna work nice......planed some mahoghany and maple
pieces for the cabane laminations this evening.....
Also completed cutting and tenoning all the Poplar wood stiles and rails for
new kitchen cabinet doors (all 23 doors! aaarrgghh!). If you're married
you'll know how making new things like kitchen cabinet doors helps you make
progress with a Pietenpol project.....
Life is good.
Jim in Plano
>
> So... how about those who are building, posting a word or two on their
> latest progress? Pull away from the Super Bowl hype and let the rest of
> us know how your Aircampers are coming along.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: project updates |
Dale Johnson and I are in the midst of
paperwork hell.
Third revision of the 8050-1 to OKC, second
revision of
an "Amendment to Affidavit of Ownership"
(don't forget to notarize....)
2 1/2 hour meeting with the local MIDO,
voicemails back and forth......
NX18235 is done, let's get on with the
inspection!!!!!!
Should have been flying last September.
Still planning to fly to Brodhead this year.
Small picture attached.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: project updates
>
> So... how about those who are building,
> posting a word or two on their latest
> progress? Pull away from the Super Bowl
> hype and let the rest of us know how your
> Aircampers are coming along.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FTLovley(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: project updates |
How much does NX 18235 weigh empty..??
Forrest Lovley
Jordan MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: project updates |
Hi Forrest,
NX18235 came in at 616 pounds empty.
We were a bit surprised at the low weight. We
knew the landing gear was heavy (60#) and all
through the project we never made a conscious
effort to keep the weight down. We just stuck
close to the plans and we didn't add anything
unnecessary.
We used 2.7 oz. fabric and no more paint than
necessary.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: <FTLovley(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project updates
> FTLovley(at)aol.com
>
> How much does NX 18235 weigh empty..??
>
> Forrest Lovley
> Jordan MN
>
>
> Forum -
> through the Contributions
> banner ads or any other
> Matronics Forums.
> pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I started building the fuselage in early November and have it all together
including turtledeck and am finishing up work on seats. Floor is on, of course.
I haven't put the plywood skins on front sides of fuselage yet as I followed
somebody else's example of leaving it off until the seats and controls are all
figured out and installed -- makes for easier access. Control stick assembly
is next along with landing gear. Hope to cut out steel fitings this week and
have it on gear before long. Will post some pics one of these days...
Meanwhile it is supposed to be 54 degrees today here in the American Siberia
(Wis.) and so I'm thinking about that Model A engine out in the garage. Needs
to be totally rebuilt for aircraft use and warm weather makes it easy to mess
around in the garage...
By the way, the plans call for spruce for landing gear legs/struts (straight
axle) -- is this what most use?
Regards,
Fred B.
________________________________________________________________________________
<000c01c50b8e$1e18a3c0$edf61e41@ATO>
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: project updates |
Hi Oscar,
Not much news here regarding my own project, but this is to let ya'll
know that William Wynne will be doing a FREE 3-hr. program at EAA
Chapter 82, Barber Airport (2D1), Alliance, OH next Saturday night
(Feb. 12), 6-9pm
Anyone who is in the area & interested in hearing Willian hold forth
on the subject of Corvair engines, in the way only he can, is welcome
to attend.
Contact me off-list if you want more info.
Kip Gardner
--
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Malcolm Morrison" <morrisons5(at)adelphia.net> |
I put a few more pictures on my web site,
http://users.adelphia.net/~morrisons5/piet.html . I have the left wing just
about done and have 11 ribs made for the right wing. The fuselage and tail
are in pretty good shape. My motivation seems to come and go, so sometimes
I make good progress, and sometimes weeks go by with no visible progress. I
don't really like making all the brackets, it seems that there is no end to
them. And many things, seat belts for example, require a lot of head
scratching. But, it is great when you finally get past a stumbling block
and complete another piece of the puzzle.
Looking forward to meeting you guys at Brodhead.
Malcolm Morrison
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: project updates |
Wow, beautiful propellor Greg, did you make it yourself?
Rick H
wrote:
> Dale Johnson and I are in the midst of
> paperwork hell.
> Third revision of the 8050-1 to OKC, second
> revision of
> an "Amendment to Affidavit of Ownership"
> (don't forget to notarize....)
> 2 1/2 hour meeting with the local MIDO,
> voicemails back and forth......
>
> NX18235 is done, let's get on with the
> inspection!!!!!!
> Should have been flying last September.
> Still planning to fly to Brodhead this year.
> Small picture attached.
>
> Greg Cardinal
> Minneapolis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: project updates
>
> >
> > So... how about those who are building,
> > posting a word or two on their latest
> > progress? Pull away from the Super Bowl
> > hype and let the rest of us know how your
> > Aircampers are coming along.
> >
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
I read that someone was glueing the leading edge ply from spar to spar
around the leading edge. This is what i know as a "D" tube, built right, very
strong and rigid. You could not rig a wing like this. There would be lots of
stress on the ply skin. And the but joints would have to part.
Howdy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: project updates |
Credit for the prop goes to Dale.
Everything he touches looks beautiful. And
there is less than
$50.00 invested in it, INCLUDING the prop
duplicating machine.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project updates
> Holland
>
> Wow, beautiful propellor Greg, did you make
> it yourself?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net> |
Picture of my Piet up on an Aero Lift at the Fed Ex Trade show last May.
I am currently epoxy priming all of the metal pieces and getting ready
to cover.
Mike Luther
NX1953M
Anchorage Alaska
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | started some covering |
today was such a beautiful day. blue sky, 75, slight breeze. All the
rich dudes out at Falcon Field were flying thier T-6's, T-28's and
Stearmans. I figured why should they have all the fun. I decided to get
out of my "N74DV misery pit" and do something. Cleaned out the shop and
tried my hand at covering the vertical stab.
I can see this is going to be a bit of a learning curve, but it seems like
I'll catch the hang of it. Vertical stab is covered but still needs to be
stitched and tapes applied.
I think I've conjured up a small burst of motivation so I need to ride the
wave and go with it. Tomorrow I cover the horiz. stab.
ohhh a question..... should I be covering the vert and horiz stabs with one
piece or 2 pieces (one on each side) ? I started out doing it as one piece
but screwed up so now the vert stab is in 2 pieces.... is this a no-no?
DJ Vegh
N74DV back in progress (for the time being)
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: started some covering |
<001301c50b47$85d41720$edf61e41@ATO>
DJ
Good for you. I covered in two pieces, one each side. As far as I know rib
stitching on the horizontals and vertical are optional at the speed of the
Piet, check with the manufacturers instructions.
>
>today was such a beautiful day. blue sky, 75=B0, slight breeze. All the
>rich dudes out at Falcon Field were flying thier T-6's, T-28's and
>Stearmans. I figured why should they have all the fun. I decided to get
>out of my "N74DV misery pit" and do something. Cleaned out the shop and
>tried my hand at covering the vertical stab.
>
>I can see this is going to be a bit of a learning curve, but it seems like
>I'll catch the hang of it. Vertical stab is covered but still needs to be
>stitched and tapes applied.
>
>I think I've conjured up a small burst of motivation so I need to ride the
>wave and go with it. Tomorrow I cover the horiz. stab.
>
>ohhh a question..... should I be covering the vert and horiz stabs with
>one piece or 2 pieces (one on each side) ? I started out doing it as one
>piece but screwed up so now the vert stab is in 2 pieces.... is this a no-no?
>
>DJ Vegh
>N74DV back in progress (for the time being)
>Mesa, AZ
>www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
Mike,
Finally got all of N-1033B recovered in Stits system after welding rebuild
of wreck damage, looks great awaiting paint job and assembly. The guy who
built this all metal quasi-Piete did a heck of a good job accounting for
making potentially useful the payload available from the Aeronca wings
(1300 lbs). He moved CG back 10" by extending the longerons to 168" and
leaning the cabanes backward. CG 12"-20" of chord loaded envelope currently
fall directly over the front seat passengers belt buckle. With O-235 we're
currently welding up new motor mount, and hope to finish welding of new
wing lift struts this week. Plane wreck back in 1996 had been due to nut
coming off of one of the pistons on an C-85, knocking off the no. 4 cyc
inflight, corn field landing. Maybe in a couple years,(after global
warming makes AK as hot as FL, where it's 70F and sunny for superbowl
sunday) I'll bring it back to Homer and see if it'll haul tundra tires and
1/4 of a moose.
Gordon Bowen
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Mike Luther luther(at)gci.net
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 12:44:05 -0900
Subject: Pietenpol-List: project update
Picture of my Piet up on an Aero Lift at the Fed Ex Trade show last May.
I am currently epoxy priming all of the metal pieces and getting ready
to cover.
Mike Luther
NX1953M
Anchorage Alaska
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernard Lefebvre" <napo(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: project update |
Mike, what kind of wheels do you have on the landing gear of your piet?
Bernie P. Lefebvre
Vald'Or, Quebec
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Luther" <luther(at)gci.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: project update
> Picture of my Piet up on an Aero Lift at the Fed Ex Trade show last May.
>
> I am currently epoxy priming all of the metal pieces and getting ready
> to cover.
>
> Mike Luther
> NX1953M
> Anchorage Alaska
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
<5.1.0.14.0.20050205195137.0272a8d0(at)pop.telus.net>
| Subject: | Re: started some covering |
yeah... rib stitching is really not needed on the tail of the Piet, but I figure
I'm gonna need to do it anyway on the wings so I may as well try it out. Plus
I kinda like the look of the stitches and tapes.
I'll pull out the Poly-Fiber video later today and will attempt to stitch this
evening.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Schubert
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: started some covering
DJ
Good for you. I covered in two pieces, one each side. As far as I know rib stitching
on the horizontals and vertical are optional at the speed of the Piet,
check with the manufacturers instructions.
today was such a beautiful day. blue sky, 75=B0, slight breeze. All the
rich dudes out at Falcon Field were flying thier T-6's, T-28's and Stearmans.
I figured why should they have all the fun. I decided to get out of my "N74DV
misery pit" and do something. Cleaned out the shop and tried my hand at covering
the vertical stab.
I can see this is going to be a bit of a learning curve, but it seems like
I'll catch the hang of it. Vertical stab is covered but still needs to be stitched
and tapes applied.
I think I've conjured up a small burst of motivation so I need to ride the
wave and go with it. Tomorrow I cover the horiz. stab.
ohhh a question..... should I be covering the vert and horiz stabs with one
piece or 2 pieces (one on each side) ? I started out doing it as one piece
but screwed up so now the vert stab is in 2 pieces.... is this a no-no?
DJ Vegh
N74DV back in progress (for the time being)
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
; - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
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http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
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http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | started some covering |
Hi DJ,
I did mine with two pieces each. I also found it useful to use the bias
tapes when taping around the cureve on the top of the vertical stab.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
Subject: Pietenpol-List: started some covering
today was such a beautiful day. blue sky, 75, slight breeze. All the
rich dudes out at Falcon Field were flying thier T-6's, T-28's and
Stearmans. I figured why should they have all the fun. I decided to get
out of my "N74DV misery pit" and do something. Cleaned out the shop and
tried my hand at covering the vertical stab.
I can see this is going to be a bit of a learning curve, but it seems like
I'll catch the hang of it. Vertical stab is covered but still needs to be
stitched and tapes applied.
I think I've conjured up a small burst of motivation so I need to ride the
wave and go with it. Tomorrow I cover the horiz. stab.
ohhh a question..... should I be covering the vert and horiz stabs with one
piece or 2 pieces (one on each side) ? I started out doing it as one piece
but screwed up so now the vert stab is in 2 pieces.... is this a no-no?
DJ Vegh
N74DV back in progress (for the time being)
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Spruce is what I used, Fred. The spruce struts were the only part of the
undercarriage that wasn't damaged during my recent forced landing. Mine are
laminated of 1/4" thick pieces of spruce, bonded with resorcinol glue. One
advantage of the laminations (in addition to greatly increased strength and
resistance to splitting) is the laminations give you a handy guide to use
when sanding down the airfoil shape on the struts.
Jack Phillips
Finishing the repairs to the right aileron today
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of TBYH(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Project Update
I started building the fuselage in early November and have it all together
including turtledeck and am finishing up work on seats. Floor is on, of
course. I haven't put the plywood skins on front sides of fuselage yet as I
followed somebody else's example of leaving it off until the seats and
controls are all figured out and installed -- makes for easier access.
Control stick assembly is next along with landing gear. Hope to cut out
steel fitings this week and have it on gear before long. Will post some pics
one of these days...
Meanwhile it is supposed to be 54 degrees today here in the American Siberia
(Wis.) and so I'm thinking about that Model A engine out in the garage.
Needs to be totally rebuilt for aircraft use and warm weather makes it easy
to mess around in the garage...
By the way, the plans call for spruce for landing gear legs/struts (straight
axle) -- is this what most use?
Regards,
Fred B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: started some covering |
I wonder where the rumor started that the tail of the Pietenpol does not need
rib stitching. I believe it started 6 or 7 years ago. The empenage DOES
need to be rib stitched. It is in the prop wash, and according to any manual,
the spacing is even closer together, where stitches are in the prop wash. The
tail takes quite a beating from the spirialing slipstream. We need to put a
halt to this dangerous rumor.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: started some covering |
Ditto
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: started some covering - stitching |
no worries Chuck... I'm stitching.
In fact I just finished stitching the vertical stab. I played my Polyfiber
DVD, pausing and rewinding and playing as the knot was shown. After the 3rd
time of watching the knot being tied I had it. I managed to do the
remaining knots on my tail by memory. It's so funny how every one says you
will easily remember how to do the knot once you actually do it. I thought
for sure I was going to have a hard time with it, but it's true. It's a
really easy knot to remember and complete. wooohooo!
I just laid my tapes over the knots/ribs and am waiting for it to dry then
I'll do the spanwise tapes.... and then the vertical is done.
wow! this is a really big kick for my lack of motivation latley. I've got
a good boost and it should maintain long enough for me to get the entire set
of tail feathers covered and complete up to silver.
DJ Vegh
N74DV (with a covered vertical tail... yeehaw)
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Lansford" <lansford(at)rgv.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Der Faker Fokker is for sale! |
Check it out! http://www.texasairmuseum.com/pietenpol/index.htm
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: started some covering |
<001301c50b47$85d41720$edf61e41@ATO>
<5.1.0.14.0.20050205195137.0272a8d0(at)pop.telus.net>
I found that when it came to rib stitching the wings it went really quickly
with a good helper/ assistant/ partner. I was fortunate in that I was able
to recruit my wife . We set the wing up on edge with one of us on each
side. Towards the end we were doing a rib in 15 minutes and we were still
speaking to each other. Now the first rib took a lot longer (about an
hour). I used the poly fiber system too.
Les
>yeah... rib stitching is really not needed on the tail of the Piet, but I
>figure I'm gonna need to do it anyway on the wings so I may as well try it
>out. Plus I kinda like the look of the stitches and tapes.
>
>I'll pull out the Poly-Fiber video later today and will attempt to stitch
>this evening.
>
>DJ
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:leskarin(at)telus.net>Les Schubert
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 7:55 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: started some covering
>
>DJ
>Good for you. I covered in two pieces, one each side. As far as I know rib
>stitching on the horizontals and vertical are optional at the speed of the
>Piet, check with the manufacturers instructions.
>
>
>><djv(at)imagedv.com>
>>
>>today was such a beautiful day. blue sky, 75=B0, slight breeze. All the
>>rich dudes out at Falcon Field were flying thier T-6's, T-28's and
>>Stearmans. I figured why should they have all the fun. I decided to
>>get out of my "N74DV misery pit" and do something. Cleaned out the shop
>>and tried my hand at covering the vertical stab.
>>
>>I can see this is going to be a bit of a learning curve, but it seems
>>like I'll catch the hang of it. Vertical stab is covered but still needs
>>to be stitched and tapes applied.
>>
>>I think I've conjured up a small burst of motivation so I need to ride
>>the wave and go with it. Tomorrow I cover the horiz. stab.
>>
>>ohhh a question..... should I be covering the vert and horiz stabs with
>>one piece or 2 pieces (one on each side) ? I started out doing it as one
>>piece but screwed up so now the vert stab is in 2 pieces.... is this a no-no?
>>
>>DJ Vegh
>>N74DV back in progress (for the time being)
>>Mesa, AZ
>>www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>; - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
>>
>>http://www.matronics.com/subscription
>>http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
>>http://www.matronics.com/search
>>http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
>>http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
>>http://www.matronics.com/archives
>>http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>>http://www.matronics.com/pietenpol-list
>>http://www.matronics.com/emaillists>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: started some covering |
Save this in a secure place Chuck. That will save you having
to do a new one a couple of years from now. It seems that
we have gone through this before a few times over the years.
Is it the knotting that's bothering folks? here's a little jig that
can give you practice before the real thing;
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: started some covering
>
> I wonder where the rumor started that the tail of the Pietenpol does not
need
> rib stitching. I believe it started 6 or 7 years ago. The empenage DOES
> need to be rib stitched. It is in the prop wash, and according to any
manual,
> the spacing is even closer together, where stitches are in the prop wash.
The
> tail takes quite a beating from the spirialing slipstream. We need to put
a
> halt to this dangerous rumor.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | started some covering |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
When I covered my wings, I did the rib-stitching by myself, with the
wing laying flat on two sawhorses. Did the left wing in 12 hours of
solid work, with breaks just for eating and nature calls. Next day I
could hardly move, from all the ducking under the wing and maneuvering
the needle. When it came time to do the right wing, I spaced the work
out over a week and found it much more comfortable. It would have been
great to have a helper and stand the wing up vertically.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
I found that when it came to rib stitching the wings it went really
quickly with a good helper/ assistant/ partner. I was fortunate in that
I was able to recruit my wife . We set the wing up on edge with one of
us on each side. Towards the end we were doing a rib in 15 minutes and
we were still speaking to each other. Now the first rib took a lot
longer (about an hour). I used the poly fiber system too.
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FTLovley(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: started some covering |
The lack of tail ribstitching should not be classified as "a dangerous
rumor", as Bernard Pietenpol never stitched the tail surfaces on any of his
airplanes, and I never stitched any of them on my Pietenpol airplanes either.
If the
fabric is stuck properly to the ribs, this is more than sufficient.
Forrest Lovley
Jordan MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | started some covering |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
The operative word in this statement is "IF". The question here is "why
not rib-stitch the tail surfaces?" I can't believe anyone who would go
to all the trouble to build their own airplane would then try to
eliminate a couple hours extra work to avoid rib stitching the tail. If
this corner is cut, it makes you wonder what other corners the builder
would cut, possibly compromising safety. It is obviously safer to
stitch it. And it is good practice before going on to stitching the
wings.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
The lack of tail ribstitching should not be classified as "a dangerous
rumor", as Bernard Pietenpol never stitched the tail surfaces on any of
his
airplanes, and I never stitched any of them on my Pietenpol airplanes
either. If the
fabric is stuck properly to the ribs, this is more than sufficient.
Forrest Lovley
Jordan MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | building progress on NX799DB |
Hey guys,
Somebody asked for updates, here's mine.
Got my Model A back from my rebuilder and decided to mount it on a test stand so
I can work all the kinks out with easy access. Got my prop and just have to
plumb everything and start her up!!
Built a "scooped out" rear seat out of Eglass so it comforms to my bottom, and
drops me down about two inches into the cockpit. Was careful to leave clearence
for elevator cables. Built a curved front seat out of carbon fiber just to
see, and it is much more comfortable, in case I ever fly anybody.
We're covered, have to rib stitch and tape the whole thing and finish. Do the sheet
metal and all the hundreds of little things. Hoped to have her at Brodhead,
but not this year.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | UV blocking, Rustoleum Paint on fabric |
I'm trying to find some info on the ability of Rustoleum oil based paint in
regard to it's ability to protect fabric from UV damage.
What level of protection does Rustoleum provide in UV absorption? (I can't
find any info on this subject) and out here in the Southwest, we have very
strong and harsh light (ask DJ...)
I only have experience in doping a silver coat of butyrate (with silver
added) over nitrate, and then using a focused Mag flashlight to check light
penetration.
Thanks,
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | started some covering |
d.com>
Jack
And while we are at it lets put extra nails and screws in all the joints
because you know maybe the glue won't hold and I am sure there
are plenty of other places we can overkill too. If Bernie Pietenpol,
and the covering manufacturer, and books available on the subject
provide guidelines why not listen to them. Sure if you have nothing
better to do with your time go ahead.
And if you think about it, what is the purpose of the stitching. It is
to keep the fabric firmly in place where you can get a low pressure
area on the outside (or high pressure on the inside). So you need it
on the top of the wing and on the bottom because of Bernie's curved
up area.
Anyway my plane is a single place so the only neck I am risking is mine.
Les
>
>
>The operative word in this statement is "IF". The question here is "why
>not rib-stitch the tail surfaces?" I can't believe anyone who would go
>to all the trouble to build their own airplane would then try to
>eliminate a couple hours extra work to avoid rib stitching the tail. If
>this corner is cut, it makes you wonder what other corners the builder
>would cut, possibly compromising safety. It is obviously safer to
>stitch it. And it is good practice before going on to stitching the
>wings.
>
>Jack Phillips
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>The lack of tail ribstitching should not be classified as "a dangerous
>rumor", as Bernard Pietenpol never stitched the tail surfaces on any of
>his
>airplanes, and I never stitched any of them on my Pietenpol airplanes
>either. If the
>fabric is stuck properly to the ribs, this is more than sufficient.
>Forrest Lovley
>Jordan MN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: started some covering |
Under the "If Bernie didn't do it, it's overkill" philosophy, I guess you don't
use seatbelts either.
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Schubert
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 8:42 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: started some covering
... I am sure there are plenty of other places we can overkill too. If Bernie
Pietenpol, and the covering manufacturer, and books available on the subject
provide guidelines why not listen to them. Sure if you have nothing better to
do with your time go ahead.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | UV blocking, Rustoleum Paint on fabric |
Don't know about Rustoleum for fabric, but I just today bought the Dupont
automotive paint needed to do the entire Piete N-1033B. Fabric is in Stits
thru the silver coat, I can highly recommend this over normal dope. The
Polybrush two coats filled the fabric, the Polyspray is already cut and
filled with proper amount of al to silver it up and protect from UV. You
just open the cans and use as is, after stirring. More expensive than dope
but based on my experience, worth every penny. Bought a HVLP top filling
spry gun from HD for $80, at 40 psi, no runs no drips and no errors. Took
approx 2 gallons of polybrush, and 3 gallons of polyspry to do entire
plane. Bought 1 gal. Dupont acrylic/polyurethane plus 1 qrt of the
plasticizer needed (the stuff the pro painters add to automotive paints so
they can be painted on plastic flexible parts like car bumpers, solvent
reducer required to spry. The entire auto paint bill was $180. May need
additional $50 in auto paint to do nifty trim. A little paint goes a long
way if you've properly filled the fabric with Stits. Good luck.
Gordon Bowen
Original Message:
-----------------
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 11:06:57 EST
Subject: Pietenpol-List: UV blocking, Rustoleum Paint on fabric
I'm trying to find some info on the ability of Rustoleum oil based paint in
regard to it's ability to protect fabric from UV damage.
What level of protection does Rustoleum provide in UV absorption? (I can't
find any info on this subject) and out here in the Southwest, we have very
strong and harsh light (ask DJ...)
I only have experience in doping a silver coat of butyrate (with silver
added) over nitrate, and then using a focused Mag flashlight to check light
penetration.
Thanks,
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FTLovley(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: started some covering |
Bernard Pietenpol DID use seat belts...I still have the original one I took
out of Pietenpol Scout N-12942. Bernard Pietenpol DID NOT stitch the fabric on
the tail surfaces or the ailerons...it wasn't needed if the fabric was stuck
to the ribs of the tail surfaces properly. I still have the original fabric
from the rudders of N-12937 and N-12942. The last airplane he built, N-899H,
also still has its original fabric...with no stitching of the tail surfaces or
ailerons.
Forrest Lovley
Jordan MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: started some covering |
I think to not stitch the tail surfaces is quite foolish, even if Bernie or
others didn't.
When you look back over your shoulders, the propwash buffets those surfaces
and brace cables
pretty good----I know the fabric glues are good but I chose not to glue the
fabric to any ribs so that
the heat taughtening process could be equal and complete before rib
stitiching. I'm sure there
are lots of things we would short-cut in building and still live many years
to talk about it, but.....
Mike C. 6 years and 300 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: started some covering |
Guys,
Rib stitching can be REALLY hard on the back, even when you put the wing vertical.
There IS a trick that makes it MUCH faster and easier.
First lay out where all the holes are going to be on each side of each rib by punching
a hole with the needle (ALL the holes on both sides of the wing). You
can get them really straight by snapping a line and they look REALLY professional
that way. Next you get one needle for EACH RIB. Sit on a rolling chair
and look through one hole to place the needle through the opposite side hole one
rib after another. All you do is roll down the wing till you have the needles
all through to the other side. Roll around to the other side and pull the
needle through each one and pass it back the same way on the other side of the
rib. Roll around the first side, tie the knot and pass the needles through
for the next stitch. By repeating the needle motions over and over you save a
TON of time walking around and your back stays comfortable in the chair. When
you have done a few rows of stitches it is time to hoist the wing higher so
the stitches are at eye level again (I hung my wing from pulleys from the hangar
roof joist and moving it lets you stretch ever 10 minutes or so). Using this
method (if I remembered all the steps) you will save DAYS and end up making
you much nicer to your dog and wife when you get home. With a moderately bright
light (a couple or three 40 watt bulbs spaced across each side) it is easy
to pass the needle through and you don't need help from a second person.
The cost of the extra needles is well worth it and I'm sure we could pass them
on to the next guy to recover some cost if you are a Scott like me.
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 7:19 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: started some covering
When I covered my wings, I did the rib-stitching by myself, with the wing laying
flat on two sawhorses. Did the left wing in 12 hours of solid work, with
breaks just for eating and nature calls. Next day I could hardly move, from all
the ducking under the wing and maneuvering the needle. When it came time to
do the right wing, I spaced the work out over a week and found it much more
comfortable. It would have been great to have a helper and stand the wing up
vertically.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
I found that when it came to rib stitching the wings it went really quickly
with a good helper/ assistant/ partner. I was fortunate in that I was able to
recruit my wife . We set the wing up on edge with one of us on each side. Towards
the end we were doing a rib in 15 minutes and we were still speaking to each
other. Now the first rib took a lot longer (about an hour). I used the poly
fiber system too.
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: started some covering |
I did something very similar. The wing was stood on its nose in a little rack made
for the purpose (padded, same shape as the L/E). Next, I made 15 needles out
of welding rod, punched all the holes. I ran all the needles through the holes
on each rib and used a "starting knot" at each site (this is approved by Stitts).
As each rib was finished, I moved on to the next one. I stitched the tail
feathers simply because they are stitched on the J-3.....Carl Vought
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: started some covering
Guys,
Rib stitching can be REALLY hard on the back, even when you put the wing vertical.
There IS a trick that makes it MUCH faster and easier.
First lay out where all the holes are going to be on each side of each rib by
punching a hole with the needle (ALL the holes on both sides of the wing). You
can get them really straight by snapping a line and they look REALLY professional
that way. Next you get one needle for EACH RIB. Sit on a rolling chair
and look through one hole to place the needle through the opposite side hole
one rib after another. All you do is roll down the wing till you have the needles
all through to the other side. Roll around to the other side and pull the
needle through each one and pass it back the same way on the other side of
the rib. Roll around the first side, tie the knot and pass the needles through
for the next stitch. By repeating the needle motions over and over you save
a TON of time walking around and your back stays comfortable in the chair. When
you have done a few rows of stitches it is time to hoist the wing higher so
the stitches are at eye level again (I hung my wing from pulleys from the hangar
roof joist and moving it lets you stretch ever 10 minutes or so). Using
this method (if I remembered all the steps) you will save DAYS and end up making
you much nicer to your dog and wife when you get home. With a moderately bright
light (a couple or three 40 watt bulbs spaced across each side) it is easy
to pass the needle through and you don't need help from a second person.
The cost of the extra needles is well worth it and I'm sure we could pass them
on to the next guy to recover some cost if you are a Scott like me.
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 7:19 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: started some covering
When I covered my wings, I did the rib-stitching by myself, with the wing laying
flat on two sawhorses. Did the left wing in 12 hours of solid work, with
breaks just for eating and nature calls. Next day I could hardly move, from
all the ducking under the wing and maneuvering the needle. When it came time
to do the right wing, I spaced the work out over a week and found it much more
comfortable. It would have been great to have a helper and stand the wing up
vertically.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
I found that when it came to rib stitching the wings it went really quickly
with a good helper/ assistant/ partner. I was fortunate in that I was able to
recruit my wife . We set the wing up on edge with one of us on each side. Towards
the end we were doing a rib in 15 minutes and we were still speaking to
each other. Now the first rib took a lot longer (about an hour). I used the poly
fiber system too.
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: started some covering |
I agree with Mike. All rag and tube airplanes I've
owned had the tail feathers rib stitched. I, too,
intend to heat shrink the fabric before I rib stitch
and not to glue the fabric to the ribs. It will also
make it easier when you have to re-cover the plane.
The tail surfaces get a lot more beating than you
would think. However, I'm sure there are many
examples of planes out there flying with glued-only
fabric on the tail feathers and are flying quite
nicely.
Doc
--- Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
>
> I think to not stitch the tail surfaces is quite
> foolish
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Schubert <leskarin(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: started some covering |
Forrest
Can you provide us with some idea of how/where Bernie attached the belts.
This just
a curiosity item for me, my plane is finished and I am happy with my
attachments.
Les
>
>Bernard Pietenpol DID use seat belts...I still have the original one I took
>out of Pietenpol Scout N-12942. Bernard Pietenpol DID NOT stitch the
>fabric on
>the tail surfaces or the ailerons...it wasn't needed if the fabric was stuck
>to the ribs of the tail surfaces properly. I still have the original fabric
>from the rudders of N-12937 and N-12942. The last airplane he built,
>N-899H,
>also still has its original fabric...with no stitching of the tail
>surfaces or
>ailerons.
>Forrest Lovley
>Jordan MN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bpjardine(at)comcast.net |
I had a question regarding Spruce or Fir for my Piet? From what I understand Spruce
has the best strength to weight ratio, but it also has its price tag and
shipping costs from Spruce Aircraft. Fir weighs a little more, but does not cost
as much and I can get aircraft grade Fir here were I live, within an hours
drive. Have many builders used Fir, and if so how much extra weight did it add
to the airframe? I guess the question is $$ vs. pounds. Thanks.
I had a question regarding Spruce or Fir for my Piet? From what I understand
Spruce has the beststrength to weight ratio, but it also has its price
tag and shipping costs from Spruce Aircraft. Fir weighs a little more, but does
not cost as much and I can get aircraft grade Fir here were I live, within
an hours drive. Have many builders used Fir, and if so how much extra weight
did it add to the airframe? I guess the question is $$ vs. pounds. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: started some covering |
In a message dated 2/7/05 1:46:26 PM Central Standard Time, FTLovley(at)aol.com
writes:
<< Bernard Pietenpol DID NOT stitch the fabric on
the tail surfaces or the ailerons...it wasn't needed if the fabric was stuck
to the ribs of the tail surfaces properly. >>
I hadn't realized this. So, this is the source. However, I would still
highly recomend stitching everything. It's not much work, and very good insurance.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re:I FINALLY got to fly N327BC!!!! |
Well, I finally got to fly my plane today. I struggled since 1995. I wrestled
with the FAA (and they turned out to be great, by the way) - I've wrestled with
the wind and cold weather for over a month.
I got to fly her twice this afternoon. No surprises. She flew hands off (but
how would i know, I was pretty busy hanging on!)
I'll admit it's a bit overwhelming. How truly amazing - I'll repeat it - AMAZING!
- to break ground in a plane you built from sticks, plywood, fabric and
pieces of metal. You and your family lived every single up and down for over
9 years. You worked almost every spare hour you could give up. You spent every
single surplus dollar you had. You answered and explained and described and
defended and discussed and cussed and dreamed and did without and prayed that
that sucker would work - someday. Over and over and over and over and over again.
And it did. It did!
How TRULY amazing.
You guys that are still building.... DO NOT QUIT! I promise you - it's a life
altering event.
I'll post some pictures in the next few days.....
Now. Get back to the shop and get TO WORK!!!!
bert in Florida!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Green" <mmml(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re:I FINALLY got to fly N327BC!!!! |
Congratulations Bert, I can see your grin from here!! :)
Mike Green
Romsey
AUSTRALIA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | HVLP reccomendations |
Since Poly-Spray and color coats are in my future I am trying to figure out what
type of equipment to buy for spraying. My dad want's me to buy an $800 Accuspray
HVLP unit but I've heard some of the locals out here at the field say that
a cheap Home Depot unit does just fine.
I'd REALLY love to save the money I'd spend on an Accuspray and use that towards
a transponder. Would a cheap HVLP unit get the job done? I'm not looking for
glass smooth paint but I do want it to look somewhat good.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce or Fir? |
<020820050314.20670.42082E8E000BEA26000050BE22070009530A02070B9D0E069F0D(at)comcast.net>
Go to the chart at the bottom of this page and compare properties;
http://clifdawson.ca/Tools_and_Tips.html
Then to the Matronic search at the bottom of every email and
punch in fir and spruce. This will keep you busy for a long time. :-)
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: bpjardine(at)comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 7:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spruce or Fir?
I had a question regarding Spruce or Fir for my Piet? From what I understand
Spruce has the best strength to weight ratio, but it also has its price tag and
shipping costs from Spruce Aircraft. Fir weighs a little more, but does not
cost as much and I can get aircraft grade Fir here were I live, within an hours
drive. Have many builders used Fir, and if so how much extra weight did it add
to the airframe? I guess the question is $$ vs. pounds. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Der Faker Fokker is for sale! |
<004001c50d63$8ea182c0$284fd618@knology.net>
And then there's Rotec......
http://www.rotecradialengines.com/
Clif
>
> Do you think you could get interested in a kit engine??? There is a kit of
> castings for a 7-cylinder and a 5-cylinder available under the name of
HCI,
> which was designed by Jack Hereford of New Haven, MO. He advertises in
> "machinist's Workshop" magazine.The cylinders and pistons are VW. There's
at
> least one at Brodhead..maybe more. You'd have to talk to Jack Hereford
about
> kit contents and cost.....Carl Vought----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 12:57 AM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Der Faker Fokker is for sale!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isaiahmccole(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | don't send me this shit |
SAVE_MONEY
In a message dated 2/7/2005 9:32:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, djv(at)imagedv.com
writes:
Since Poly-Spray and color coats are in my future I am trying to figure out
what type of equipment to buy for spraying. My dad want's me to buy an $800
Accuspray HVLP unit but I've heard some of the locals out here at the field say
that a cheap Home Depot unit does just fine.
I'd REALLY love to save the money I'd spend on an Accuspray and use that
towards a transponder. Would a cheap HVLP unit get the job done? I'm not looking
for glass smooth paint but I do want it to look somewhat good.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce or Fir? |
I bought my spruce from the local lumber yard. Every
square inch is not A/C grade so you have to cut it up
to seperate out the good stuff. There is as lot of
waste, but you still save well over half the cost of
ordering ACS&S stuff. You need a table saw and a good
blade. I bought 2"x6" of different lengths. Buy the
vertical grain or what is called "quarter sawn"
pieces.
Doc
--- bpjardine(at)comcast.net wrote:
> I had a question regarding Spruce or Fir for my
> Piet? From what I understand Spruce has the best
> strength to weight ratio, but it also has its price
> tag and shipping costs from Spruce Aircraft. Fir
> weighs a little more, but does not cost as much and
> I can get aircraft grade Fir here were I live,
> within an hours drive. Have many builders used Fir,
> and if so how much extra weight did it add to the
> airframe? I guess the question is $$ vs. pounds.
Thanks.
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Lansford" <lansford(at)rgv.rr.com> |
<00c001c50da5$928f7fd0$d2705118@dawsonaviation>
| Subject: | Re: Der Faker Fokker is for sale! |
Anybody know how much those are?
Matt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Der Faker Fokker is for sale!
>
> And then there's Rotec......
>
> http://www.rotecradialengines.com/
>
> Clif
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re:I FINALLY got to fly N327BC!!!! |
WAY TO GO, BERT!!!
There's no feeling quite like it, is there?
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bert Conoly
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:I FINALLY got to fly N327BC!!!!
Well, I finally got to fly my plane today. I struggled since 1995. I
wrestled with the FAA (and they turned out to be great, by the way) - I've
wrestled with the wind and cold weather for over a month.
I got to fly her twice this afternoon. No surprises. She flew hands off
(but how would i know, I was pretty busy hanging on!)
I'll admit it's a bit overwhelming. How truly amazing - I'll repeat it -
AMAZING! - to break ground in a plane you built from sticks, plywood, fabric
and pieces of metal. You and your family lived every single up and down for
over 9 years. You worked almost every spare hour you could give up. You
spent every single surplus dollar you had. You answered and explained and
described and defended and discussed and cussed and dreamed and did without
and prayed that that sucker would work - someday. Over and over and over and
over and over again.
And it did. It did!
How TRULY amazing.
You guys that are still building.... DO NOT QUIT! I promise you - it's a
life altering event.
I'll post some pictures in the next few days.....
Now. Get back to the shop and get TO WORK!!!!
bert in Florida!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | HVLP reccomendations |
I bought an axis HVLP system to spray the expensive Aerothane polyurethane
paint. I wouldn't recommend it. By a cheap spray gun and use PolyTone,
rather than Aerothane. Repairs are much easier and the Aerothane is
difficult to spray (at least with the HVLP setup)
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
Subject: Pietenpol-List: HVLP reccomendations
Since Poly-Spray and color coats are in my future I am trying to figure out
what type of equipment to buy for spraying. My dad want's me to buy an $800
Accuspray HVLP unit but I've heard some of the locals out here at the field
say that a cheap Home Depot unit does just fine.
I'd REALLY love to save the money I'd spend on an Accuspray and use that
towards a transponder. Would a cheap HVLP unit get the job done? I'm not
looking for glass smooth paint but I do want it to look somewhat good.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FTLovley(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: started some covering |
Usually Bernard just screwed a steel loop into the seat frame...later he
attached that steel loop to the seat frame and then a steel strap from the loop
to
the bottom longeron under the seat.
Forrest Lovley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FTLovley(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: started some covering |
For the record...I'm not recommending that anyone stitch or not stitch their
tail surfaces on their airplanes. I'm just correcting the statements made by
people on this list concerning "rumors" about how Bernard really built his
airplanes.
Forrest Lovley
Jordan MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re:I FINALLY got to fly N327BC!!!! |
0E069F0D(at)comcast.net>
Bert-- THE fun has JUST begun !!!! Way to go !!!!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Der Faker Fokker is for sale! |
<00c001c50da5$928f7fd0$d2705118@dawsonaviation>
<001101c50db0$f1799750$eed1af18@hal>
report
For some reason I have $20k stuck in my head when I look at those. I can't tell
you where I got it though. There are two or three companies making small
radials that are usually at OshKosh, I've spoken to them before and I don't
remember an exact price, but I know they weren't cheap.
Isn't someone on this list working on a Rotec powered Aircamper? Is it you
Clif?
Steve Ruse
Dallas, TX
Quoting Matt Lansford :
>
> Anybody know how much those are?
>
> Matt
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Der Faker Fokker is for sale!
>
>
> >
> > And then there's Rotec......
> >
> > http://www.rotecradialengines.com/
> >
> > Clif
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re:I FINALLY got to fly N327BC!!!! |
Nice work Bert, please post a picture of your masterpiece. I am now
logging off and heading for the workshop too.
Rick Holland
>
>
>
> Well, I finally got to fly my plane today. I struggled since 1995. I
> wrestled with the FAA (and they turned out to be great, by the way) - I've
> wrestled with the wind and cold weather for over a month.
>
> I got to fly her twice this afternoon. No surprises. She flew hands off
> (but how would i know, I was pretty busy hanging on!)
>
> I'll admit it's a bit overwhelming. How truly amazing - I'll repeat it -
> AMAZING! - to break ground in a plane you built from sticks, plywood, fabric
> and pieces of metal. You and your family lived every single up and down for
> over 9 years. You worked almost every spare hour you could give up. You
> spent every single surplus dollar you had. You answered and explained and
> described and defended and discussed and cussed and dreamed and did without
> and prayed that that sucker would work - someday. Over and over and over and
> over and over again.
>
> And it did. It did!
>
> How TRULY amazing.
>
> You guys that are still building.... DO NOT QUIT! I promise you - it's a
> life altering event.
> I'll post some pictures in the next few days.....
>
> Now. Get back to the shop and get TO WORK!!!!
>
> bert in Florida!
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:I FINALLY got to fly N327BC!!!! |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
Congratulations, Bert! If you can rack up 40 hours on it by April 12
you could fly it to Sun 'n Fun . . .just kidding! (although it would be
great to see it)
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alexms1(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re:I FINALLY got to fly N327BC!!!! |
Congratulations Bert. It is so good to read great reports.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
Well, I finally got to fly my plane today. I struggled since 1995. I wrestled
with the FAA (and they turned out to be great, by the way) - I've wrestled with
the wind and cold weather for over a month.
I got to fly her twice this afternoon. No surprises. She flew hands off (but
how would i know, I was pretty busy hanging on!)
I'll admit it's a bit overwhelming. How truly amazing - I'll repeat it - AMAZING!
- to break ground in a plane you built from sticks, plywood, fabric and pieces
of metal. You and your family lived every single up and down for over 9
years. You worked almost every spare hour you could give up. You spent every
single surplus dollar you had. You answered and explained and described and defended
and discussed and cussed and dreamed and did without and prayed that that
sucker would work - someday. Over and over and over and over and over again.
And it did. It did!
How TRULY amazing.
You guys that are still building.... DO NOT QUIT! I promise you - it's a life
altering event.
I'll post some pictures in the next few days.....
Now. Get back to the shop and get TO WORK!!!!
bert in Florida!
Congratulations Bert. It is so good to read great reports.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
Well, I finally got to fly my plane today. I struggled
since 1995. I wrestled with the FAA (and they turned out to be great,
by the way) -I've wrestled with the wind and cold weather for over a
month.
I got to fly her twice this afternoon. No surprises.
She flew hands off (but how would i know, I was pretty busy hanging
on!)
I'll admit it's a bit overwhelming. How truly
amazing - I'll repeat it - AMAZING! -to break ground in a plane you built
from sticks, plywood,fabric and pieces of metal. You and your
family lived every single up and down for over 9 years. You worked almost
every spare hour you could give up. You spent every single surplus dollar
you had. You answered and explained and described and defended and discussed
and cussed and dreamed and did without and prayed that that sucker would work
- someday. Over and over and over and over and over again.
And it did. It did!
How TRULY amazing.
You guys that are still building.... DO NOT
QUIT! I promise you - it's a life altering event.
I'll post some pictures in the next few days.....
Now. Get back to the shop and get TO WORK!!!!
bert in Florida!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Corvair College in New England |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
Hi Corvair people,
I'm interested in getting a Corvair College going at the EAA 106 hangar
in Lawrence, Mass. (about 45 car-minutes north of Boston) sometime in
September or October. Anyone interested in attending should send me an
e-mail--I'd like to have enough possible attendees to persuade William
Wynne that it would be worth it; he's never done one in the Northeast
and has some interest in the idea but needs convincing. We have the
facility and an active EAA chapter, and it's a great place to visit even
if you're not a Sox or Pats fan!
Mark Hodgson
mhodgson(at)bu.edu
P.S. Please keep "Corvair College" in the subject header to avoid
spamicide.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | started some covering |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I hauled mine into the living room. Set it on two chairs and suspended
it with bungee cords from the ceiling fan and went at it. Two days with
the help of my wife.
Made for a cool conversation piece.
Stevee
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
Vought
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: started some covering
I did something very similar. The wing was stood on its nose in a little
rack made for the purpose (padded, same shape as the L/E). Next, I made
15 needles out of welding rod, punched all the holes. I ran all the
needles through the holes on each rib and used a "starting knot" at each
site (this is approved by Stitts). As each rib was finished, I moved on
to the next one. I stitched the tail feathers simply because they are
stitched on the J-3.....Carl Vought
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett <mailto:hjarrett(at)hroads.net>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: started some covering
Guys,
Rib stitching can be REALLY hard on the back, even when you put
the wing vertical. There IS a trick that makes it MUCH faster and
easier.
First lay out where all the holes are going to be on each side
of each rib by punching a hole with the needle (ALL the holes on both
sides of the wing). You can get them really straight by snapping a line
and they look REALLY professional that way. Next you get one needle for
EACH RIB. Sit on a rolling chair and look through one hole to place the
needle through the opposite side hole one rib after another. All you do
is roll down the wing till you have the needles all through to the other
side. Roll around to the other side and pull the needle through each
one and pass it back the same way on the other side of the rib. Roll
around the first side, tie the knot and pass the needles through for the
next stitch. By repeating the needle motions over and over you save a
TON of time walking around and your back stays comfortable in the chair.
When you have done a few rows of stitches it is time to hoist the wing
higher so the stitches are at eye level again (I hung my wing from
pulleys from the hangar roof joist and moving it lets you stretch ever
10 minutes or so). Using this method (if I remembered all the steps)
you will save DAYS and end up making you much nicer to your dog and wife
when you get home. With a moderately bright light (a couple or three 40
watt bulbs spaced across each side) it is easy to pass the needle
through and you don't need help from a second person.
The cost of the extra needles is well worth it and I'm sure we
could pass them on to the next guy to recover some cost if you are a
Scott like me.
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack <mailto:jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 7:19 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: started some covering
When I covered my wings, I did the rib-stitching by
myself, with the wing laying flat on two sawhorses. Did the left wing
in 12 hours of solid work, with breaks just for eating and nature calls.
Next day I could hardly move, from all the ducking under the wing and
maneuvering the needle. When it came time to do the right wing, I
spaced the work out over a week and found it much more comfortable. It
would have been great to have a helper and stand the wing up vertically.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
I found that when it came to rib stitching the wings it
went really quickly with a good helper/ assistant/ partner. I was
fortunate in that I was able to recruit my wife . We set the wing up on
edge with one of us on each side. Towards the end we were doing a rib in
15 minutes and we were still speaking to each other. Now the first rib
took a lot longer (about an hour). I used the poly fiber system too.
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | HVLP reccomendations |
I bought an off the shelf HVLP for $80 at Home Depot, sprayed at 35 psi at
the compressor and expect got 10-15 psi after 30' of hose and letdown in
pressure that comes with pulling the trigger. The sprayer has a top
gravity feed (which I love, compared to siphon), very easy clean up. Just
finished putting on the automotive paint (duPont), with plasticizer Bulldog
added to keep it flexible. Polyurethane/acrylic paint with curative.
Piete took exactly one gallon of paint, 1 qt of reducer solvent, 1 pt. of
isocyanante curative, 1 pt. of Bulldog additive. Total $180, and I still
have 3/4 gal of reducer plus 1/2 qrt bulldog left over. The Stits polyspry
went on with a run and dryed quickly. The HVLP has very little overspray,
and lost material when you set the pressure at 10 psi at the gun as
recommended, if you use too much pressure it will overspray like the siphon
types. I cannot see buying a sprayer costing 10x more. Good luck
Gordon Bowen
N-1033B Quasi-Piete
Original Message:
-----------------
From: DJ Vegh djv(at)imagedv.com
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 22:31:06 -0700
Subject: Pietenpol-List: HVLP reccomendations
Since Poly-Spray and color coats are in my future I am trying to figure out
what type of equipment to buy for spraying. My dad want's me to buy an
$800 Accuspray HVLP unit but I've heard some of the locals out here at the
field say that a cheap Home Depot unit does just fine.
I'd REALLY love to save the money I'd spend on an Accuspray and use that
towards a transponder. Would a cheap HVLP unit get the job done? I'm not
looking for glass smooth paint but I do want it to look somewhat good.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
<001901c50d95$fb2d10d0$6501a8c0@Nancy>
| Subject: | Re:I FINALLY got to fly N327BC!!!! |
Bert,
Yeah, isn't it great!!! Something that you have to experience for yourself.
Even though there is nothing like the very first flight, the next couple hundred
will be a kick too.
Good luck with it and safe flying.
Ain't life grand!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Conoly
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 11:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:I FINALLY got to fly N327BC!!!!
Well, I finally got to fly my plane today. I struggled since 1995. I wrestled
with the FAA (and they turned out to be great, by the way) - I've wrestled
with the wind and cold weather for over a month.
I got to fly her twice this afternoon. No surprises. She flew hands off (but
how would i know, I was pretty busy hanging on!)
I'll admit it's a bit overwhelming. How truly amazing - I'll repeat it - AMAZING!
- to break ground in a plane you built from sticks, plywood, fabric and
pieces of metal. You and your family lived every single up and down for over
9 years. You worked almost every spare hour you could give up. You spent every
single surplus dollar you had. You answered and explained and described and
defended and discussed and cussed and dreamed and did without and prayed that
that sucker would work - someday. Over and over and over and over and over
again.
And it did. It did!
How TRULY amazing.
You guys that are still building.... DO NOT QUIT! I promise you - it's a
life altering event.
I'll post some pictures in the next few days.....
Now. Get back to the shop and get TO WORK!!!!
bert in Florida!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
<001901c50d95$fb2d10d0$6501a8c0@Nancy>
| Subject: | Re:I FINALLY got to fly N327BC!!!! |
Bert,
Just curious,,,do you have to fly off 25 hours or 40 hours?
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Conoly
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 11:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:I FINALLY got to fly N327BC!!!!
Well, I finally got to fly my plane today. I struggled since 1995. I wrestled
with the FAA (and they turned out to be great, by the way) - I've wrestled
with the wind and cold weather for over a month.
I got to fly her twice this afternoon. No surprises. She flew hands off (but
how would i know, I was pretty busy hanging on!)
I'll admit it's a bit overwhelming. How truly amazing - I'll repeat it - AMAZING!
- to break ground in a plane you built from sticks, plywood, fabric and
pieces of metal. You and your family lived every single up and down for over
9 years. You worked almost every spare hour you could give up. You spent every
single surplus dollar you had. You answered and explained and described and
defended and discussed and cussed and dreamed and did without and prayed that
that sucker would work - someday. Over and over and over and over and over
again.
And it did. It did!
How TRULY amazing.
You guys that are still building.... DO NOT QUIT! I promise you - it's a
life altering event.
I'll post some pictures in the next few days.....
Now. Get back to the shop and get TO WORK!!!!
bert in Florida!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair College in New England |
, "Hodgson, Mark O"
>
>Hi Corvair people,
>
>I'm interested in getting a Corvair College going at the EAA 106 hangar
>in Lawrence, Mass. (about 45 car-minutes north of Boston) sometime in
>September or October. Anyone interested in attending should send me an
>e-mail--I'd like to have enough possible attendees to persuade William
>Wynne that it would be worth it; he's never done one in the Northeast
>and has some interest in the idea but needs convincing. We have the
>facility and an active EAA chapter, and it's a great place to visit even
>if you're not a Sox or Pats fan!
>
>Mark Hodgson
>mhodgson(at)bu.edu
>
>P.S. Please keep "Corvair College" in the subject header to avoid
>spamicide.
Hi Mark,
I hope I'm not raining on your parade, but William & I will be
finalizing plans for this year's Ohio Corvair College when he is here
this weekend to do his "Night School".
My EAA Chapter would prefer to have it in early summer, but my in my
initial conversations with William last mnoth, he said that he would
probably have to opt for late August or early Fall some time, since
their big push over the next few months is going to be to get a
backlog of parts built up & also finish the Corvair TriMotor project.
I'm definitely not saying don't go for it, but you may have to
convince him to work around what we're already planning.
I'll be putting the word out about the OH Corvair College once we
have the dates nailed down.
Also, Congratulations BERT! It's great to hear that one more has
taken to the skies. Hope to see you at Brodhead sometime.
Cheers!
Kip Gardner
--
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PIETLARS29(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: HVLP reccomendations |
Re: HVLP
I used a $200 Campbell Hauschild HVLP rig with an extra 15' of hose per Stits
reccomendation. It worked fine and was quie econamical on material. It is
the kind with a suction feed and the hose is 1" flex hose like a vacuum
cleaner.
Can also check Harbor Freight for HVLP units at decent prices.
Regards,
Lou Larsen
(still fussing with my A engine)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:I FINALLY got to fly N327BC!!!! |
In a message dated 2/7/05 10:24:37 PM Central Standard Time,
bconoly(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< I got to fly her twice this afternoon. No surprises. She flew hands
off (but how would i know, I was pretty busy hanging on!)
I'll admit it's a bit overwhelming. How truly amazing - I'll repeat it -
AMAZING! - to break ground in a plane you built from sticks, plywood, fabric
and pieces of metal. >>
Bert,
Allow me to offer my Congratulations...and a Big YEEEEE HAAAAAAWW !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Steve Eldredge's Piet |
Someone was asking about Piets in Utah the other day and Steve E. piped up
since he's located in Utah. He also piped up (chimed in?) when the
discussion turned to using latex house paint.
In case anyone wants to know what Steve's plane looks like, it's the "poster
child" that the host of our list (Matronics) uses, for example at:
http://www.matronics.com/pietenpol-list/index.htm
I've always liked the paint scheme that Steve used (British racing green
fuselage, silver wings, nose, and fuselage top). And the "Aircamper" logo,
and that big "E" on the tail...
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Der Faker Fokker is for sale! |
<004001c50d63$8ea182c0$284fd618@knology.net>
<00c001c50da5$928f7fd0$d2705118@dawsonaviation>
<001101c50db0$f1799750$eed1af18@hal>
<1107874208.4208d1a06421b(at)www.wotelectronics.com>
Ain't me but I remember that rumour too.
There was one around here that flew many years
with a Jake on the nose. I'm not sure about the
plane but the engine is now on Vancouver Island,
well Saltspring Island to be more accurate. The
owner is also newly flying a Piet with a model B
on its nose. It resides under a pair of Stranraer
tip floats. There's some great stories about THOSE
planes around this coast. :-) :-)
Clif
>
> Isn't someone on this list working on a Rotec powered Aircamper? Is it
you
> Clif?
>
> Steve Ruse
> Dallas, TX
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Steve Eldredge's Piet |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Thanks for the plug Oscar! I'm piping (popping, chiming) in more now
that I've caught up on a back-log of piet emails.
Ready for warm weather!
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steve Eldredge's Piet
Someone was asking about Piets in Utah the other day and Steve E. piped
up
since he's located in Utah. He also piped up (chimed in?) when the
discussion turned to using latex house paint.
In case anyone wants to know what Steve's plane looks like, it's the
"poster
child" that the host of our list (Matronics) uses, for example at:
http://www.matronics.com/pietenpol-list/index.htm
I've always liked the paint scheme that Steve used (British racing green
fuselage, silver wings, nose, and fuselage top). And the "Aircamper"
logo,
and that big "E" on the tail...
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Here's a little puzzle for you antiquers, from a member of the KRNet:
====================
From: "Stephen Jacobs" <askies(at)microlink.zm>
Subject: KR> CCW wood screws
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 18:28:07 +0200
Some time ago someone gave me a box of stuff that had belonged to
someone that was no longer around. I understand that the old timer
spent his time restoring old British airplanes - mainly wood (Tiger Moth
and Chipmunk?). I was the only airplane guy they knew, so rather than
toss it out, it came my way.
There were some useful things in there, including a super tubing cutter
for the smaller sizes (under 1/2") and turning tools for ferrels,
flaring tools etc.
Recently I needed some wood screws that were going to be covered with
ply forever. I did not know if the moisture in the spruce (6%?) would
ultimately corrode steel screws, so I decided to use brass just in case,
but where to on a Sunday eve.
I remembered seeing some brass wood screws in one of the little drawers
in this box of treasures - they were the perfect size.
Problem is, they would not do what screws are supposed to do. After a
period of total perplexion, I finally realized that they had a left-hand
"thread". I turned them backwards and in they went. I was reluctant to
bury them under the ply, they may be unique and valuable.
I cannot dredge up any logical reason why anyone would make a reverse
thread wood screw - maybe to counter harmonic vibrations??
I doubt anyone else has any answers, but worth mentioning.
Take care
Steve J
======================
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: severely OT - CCW wood screws & drain water |
I once asked my Earth Science/Physics teacher in high school this
question... he was unable to answer it. I felt pretty macho at the time
being able to stump the teacher in front of the class.
"if our drain water swirls clockwise in the northern hemisphere and it goes
ccw in southern hemisphere...... what happens at the equator? does it just
go straight down???"
I still haven't got a real answer on that.... 13 yrs later.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> Oscar--they use LH threaded wood screws in Australia. Just like how
their
> water swirls
> the opposite direction when toilets are flushed, they have winter when we
> have summer, etc.
>
> Full of crap in Ohio,
>
> Mike C.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
water
| Subject: | Re: severely OT - CCW wood screws & drain |
water
http://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/mysteries/coriolis.html
The Coriolis force is too weak to affect a sink or bathtub full of
water...
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> djv(at)imagedv.com Wednesday, February 09, 2005 1:38:00 PM >>>
I once asked my Earth Science/Physics teacher in high school this
question... he was unable to answer it. I felt pretty macho at the
time
being able to stump the teacher in front of the class.
"if our drain water swirls clockwise in the northern hemisphere and it
goes
ccw in southern hemisphere...... what happens at the equator? does it
just
go straight down???"
I still haven't got a real answer on that.... 13 yrs later.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> Oscar--they use LH threaded wood screws in Australia. Just like
how
their
> water swirls
> the opposite direction when toilets are flushed, they have winter
when we
> have summer, etc.
>
> Full of crap in Ohio,
>
> Mike C.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
How about the harmonics that could be generated by props/engines that
turned clockwise? Some of the early British engines did have props that
turned clockwise, perhaps those wise early adventurers of aviation
discovered CCW screws were less likely to work their way out of the wood vs
traditional screws? If so, those of you flying auto engines with CW turning
props may have a screw lose and not know it.
Gordon Bowen
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Oscar Zuniga taildrags(at)hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 10:43:16 -0600
Subject: Pietenpol-List: CCW wood screws
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HVLP reccomendations |
I bough one of the Harbor Freight HVLP spray units for under $100 and painted my
whole Taylorcraft with it using the old time method of nitrate dope, aluminum
filled clear and color byuterate. It never missed a beat, uses half the dope
I expected and produced a show finish (where I did the prep properly). The
whole thing looks GREAT and I will NEVER go back. It was fantastic using a piece
of 2" tape on the open window openings with no paper in the holes and NO overspray
in the plane (practice first, there IS a technique to getting no overspray).
I shot the whole plane with my car sitting 10' away from the open hangar
door and there isn't a fleck of paint on my car the factory didn't put there.
Hank J.
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: HVLP reccomendations
Since Poly-Spray and color coats are in my future I am trying to figure out what
type of equipment to buy for spraying. My dad want's me to buy an $800 Accuspray
HVLP unit but I've heard some of the locals out here at the field say
that a cheap Home Depot unit does just fine.
I'd REALLY love to save the money I'd spend on an Accuspray and use that towards
a transponder. Would a cheap HVLP unit get the job done? I'm not looking
for glass smooth paint but I do want it to look somewhat good.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
| Subject: | Re: severely OT - CCW wood screws & drain water |
Ask any sailor who has "Crossed the Line". It swirls the same way it did in
the northern hemisphere. In fact we went all the way to Rio and none of the
drains I looked at EVER changed directions. From what a physics major on
board said there are so many forces acting on the water that are so much
more powerful than choriolis (SP?) he would have been shocked to see one
change direction. Didn't explain why the majority started out one direction
(not all, but most) but I would imagine in a brand new clean drain choriolis
is a bigger % of the total force in effect. Once crud starts accumulating
in the pipe with a swirl pattern established there isn't enough "push" from
the Earth rotation to overcome it.
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: severely OT - CCW wood screws & drain water
>
> I once asked my Earth Science/Physics teacher in high school this
> question... he was unable to answer it. I felt pretty macho at the time
> being able to stump the teacher in front of the class.
>
> "if our drain water swirls clockwise in the northern hemisphere and it
goes
> ccw in southern hemisphere...... what happens at the equator? does it
just
> go straight down???"
>
> I still haven't got a real answer on that.... 13 yrs later.
>
> DJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> > Oscar--they use LH threaded wood screws in Australia. Just like how
> their
> > water swirls
> > the opposite direction when toilets are flushed, they have winter when
we
> > have summer, etc.
> >
> > Full of crap in Ohio,
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hjarrett" <hjarrett(at)hroads.net> |
I bought some of the oil based Rust-oleum to try on the steel parts of my
plane and it seemed to work really well. It thins easily and covers well
with a small sprayer. I got some on the edges of some fabric areas and it
seemed to stick pretty well to the dope (I was using an air-brush trying to
get some small steel parts coming through the fabric that the dope didn't
want to stick to at all). Question is, how well does the Rust-oleum stick
to fabric with dope already on it? I haven't done the trim colors yet and
the custom mixed Rust-oleum is MUCH cheaper than dope and has a good finish.
Will it last? Anybody tried markings in an oil based paint on a dope
finish?
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fabric work
>
> Oscar,
> I have oil based enamel Aluminum Rust-oleum on my plane, for the UV
> protection, and oil based Red Devil Red, for the trim. The paint is
holding up very
> well. For the repairs I have done, I have been fairly successful by using
duct
> tape to remove most of the paint, down to the fabric. Carefully test
small
> areas. Experiment using the duct tape right on unsanded paint, or use
fine sand
> paper to remove the gloss, clean the dust off and press the duct tape on,
and
> RIP off the paint, leaving reletively clean fabric. This probably
wouldn't
> work with Dope. I finished up cleaning the fabric with plenty of clean
rags,
> and MEK wearing rubber gloves. Remove the paint, and clean the fabric
before
> you cut the fabric, or the loose edges are much more difficult to clean.
Like
> Terry said, be very carefull not to sand into any fibers. 1" to 2"
overlap
> for the patch, using poly tac, and even blend the edges away with you
fingers
> and the glue. Finish blending the edges with an iron at temperatures
toward the
> lower end of the range. You should be able to blend in paint right up to
the
> patch, and make the patch almost disappear. To save weight on the
empenage, I
> used 1.8 oz fabric. It's also easier to use the lighter fabric, however,
> your patch should be the same weight as what it is covered with. Fabric
repair
> is not very difficult. Matching the paint will probably be your biggest
> challenge, however, repairs give 'er some character !!
>
> Chuck G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edwin Johnson <elj(at)shreve.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CCW wood screws |
Mike,
>
> Oscar--they use LH threaded wood screws in Australia. Just like how their
> water swirls
> the opposite direction when toilets are flushed, they have winter when we
> have summer, etc.
>
> Full of crap in Ohio,
And, according to my friend, the compasses all point south down there.
Full of more crap in Louisiana.
...Edwin
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your
eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you
long to return."-- da Vinci ... www.shreve.net/~elj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: CCW wood screws |
In parts of Alaska the compasses point East...
Full o' crap in Indiana...
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> elj(at)shreve.net Thursday, February 10, 2005 11:03:39 AM >>>
Mike,
>
> Oscar--they use LH threaded wood screws in Australia. Just like how
their
> water swirls
> the opposite direction when toilets are flushed, they have winter
when we
> have summer, etc.
>
> Full of crap in Ohio,
And, according to my friend, the compasses all point south down there.
Full of more crap in Louisiana.
...Edwin
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your
eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you
long to return."-- da Vinci ... www.shreve.net/~elj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Der Faker Fokker is for sale! |
This airplane has T-craft Wings.
--
Terry L. Bowden
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | any Piets near Atlanda or Brunswick, GA ? |
Group-- Gardiner Mason writes below---if any of you can help him please
don't reply to the group but
rather to the e-mail provided
here----susan....... susanandgardiner(at)bellsouth.net
>"I am interested in building a pietenpol. Are there any in the Atlanta or
>Brunswick Ga. area? I sure would like to see one,or possibly get a demo
>ride. I currently have a C140
>
> that I keep in Brunswick, Ga., and I want a good woodworking project. I
> have the building space and tools and time."
>
>
>Gardiner Mason.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Howdy, Pieters;
Well, "The Fisherman" is alive and well. He has some pictures on a website
that he asked be given to the list, so here it is:
http://falconview0.tripod.com/pietenpolhomebuiltairplaneproject
I'm just the messenger...
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | wing setup and trammeling |
A nice article with description and photos -but for a stearman is at
http://www.bigskystearman.com/AssemblyManual.html
Henry Williams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <margdick(at)peoplepc.com> |
Pieters,
Don't bitch a whole lot, but I really gotta get this one out for venting and warning
others. This is my second time around using Poly Fiber system and am well
pleased except for the following: I ran out of cord (500 yds) from the first
time and had to re-order (from AS & S) to finish this second project. I was
rocking right along almost enjoying the lacing until I received the re-order
of cord. It was ordered under the same part number at AS & S but when received
it was much heavier cord and much waxier and only 296 yards. P/N 09-03800.
Talk about difficult. It was twice as hard to use and took at least twice
as long to lace. I was so pissed I called PolyFiber and ask them about it. The
tech I talked to said that he was aware of the cord being heavier and said
that it was all that was available. So, does anyone know of any other source
of cord that I might replace what I am going to dispose of? I have finished
with this project but will be doing more lacing in the future, I hope.
DickG.
Ft. Myers, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Don't know about a new source of cord, But I just saved a ton of money
on insurance.....
Only kidding, but I did by chance just land in your fair city about 2
hours ago (ala Delta 767, not the piet....)
Is this the flat cord or the round cord we are talking about?
Steve E (at the pink shell)
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick and
Marge Gillespie
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib-lacing Cord
Pieters,
Don't bitch a whole lot, but I really gotta get this one out for
venting and warning others. This is my second time around using Poly
Fiber system and am well pleased except for the following: I ran out of
cord (500 yds) from the first time and had to re-order (from AS & S) to
finish this second project. I was rocking right along almost enjoying
the lacing until I received the re-order of cord. It was ordered under
the same part number at AS & S but when received it was much heavier
cord and much waxier and only 296 yards. P/N 09-03800. Talk about
difficult. It was twice as hard to use and took at least twice as long
to lace. I was so pissed I called PolyFiber and ask them about it. The
tech I talked to said that he was aware of the cord being heavier and
said that it was all that was available. So, does anyone know of any
other source of cord that I might replace what I am going to dispose of?
I have finished with this project but will be doing more lacing in the
future, I hope.
DickG.
Ft. Myers, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <margdick(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib-lacing Cord |
Steve,
It's the round cord. You arrived in Ft.Myers on one of the coldest days of the
year. If you'd like to discuss it, call me at 936-2774.
DickG.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 10:29 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rib-lacing Cord
Don't know about a new source of cord, But I just saved a ton of money on insurance...
Only kidding, but I did by chance just land in your fair city about 2 hours ago
(ala Delta 767, not the piet..)
Is this the flat cord or the round cord we are talking about?
Steve E (at the pink shell)
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick and Marge Gillespie
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 8:52 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib-lacing Cord
Pieters,
Don't bitch a whole lot, but I really gotta get this one out for venting and
warning others. This is my second time around using Poly Fiber system and am
well pleased except for the following: I ran out of cord (500 yds) from the
first time and had to re-order (from AS & S) to finish this second project. I
was rocking right along almost enjoying the lacing until I received the re-order
of cord. It was ordered under the same part number at AS & S but when received
it was much heavier cord and much waxier and only 296 yards. P/N 09-03800.
Talk about difficult. It was twice as hard to use and took at least twice
as long to lace. I was so pissed I called PolyFiber and ask them about it.
The tech I talked to said that he was aware of the cord being heavier and said
that it was all that was available. So, does anyone know of any other source
of cord that I might replace what I am going to dispose of? I have finished
with this project but will be doing more lacing in the future, I hope.
DickG.
Ft. Myers, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Painting control system metal parts |
What have you guys used to paint your control system parts (after zinc
chromate primer)? Was thinking of using rustoleum spray paint.
Lighter colors are better at showing weld cracks correct?
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Powdercoating control system parts |
You guys that powdercoated your control system parts, how did you deal
with the ends of your torque tube and bellcrank tube which fits
tightly and rotates in a bearing tube. Can those ends be masked off
before coating? And the insides of the bearing tubes as well.
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Firewall/crossbrace question |
This will seem like a dumb question (I know, I know -- there are no dumb
questions, but this one may qualify).
On the 1-1/2 by 1-1/4-inch white ash horizontal crossbrace that is shaped to
fit around the vertical uprights behind the firewall...and is held in place
with 5/16 bolts...should there also be glue between the ash crosspiece and the
back of the plywood firewall? This is the piece that the Model A engine
"cradle" rests on... I assume there should be glue here, in addition to the
bolts...and I assume the plywood "box" (where the mag and radiator will reside)
above
is also glued to that crosspiece....
Fred B.
.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting control system metal parts |
Hi Rick:
I am really sold on the Poly-Fiber two part white Epoxy primer for all of
my metal parts. After seven days of cure time it is a really durable
finish. Paint stripper won't touch it and I can't scratch it off with my
finger nail and I can polish the primer to a nice sheen for a final
finish. I did read that Epoxy primer will get a little chalky after a few
years of UV.
Zinc chromate as a primer for steel works just fine, but I ran into
durability issues when I tried to topcoat the primer with spray enamel.
Mike Luther
Rick Holland wrote:
>
> What have you guys used to paint your control system parts (after zinc
> chromate primer)? Was thinking of using rustoleum spray paint.
> Lighter colors are better at showing weld cracks correct?
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Powdercoating control system parts |
all my stuff was powdercoated. thermal tape is used to mask off areas where
powdercoat should not get to.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Powdercoating control system parts
>
> You guys that powdercoated your control system parts, how did you deal
> with the ends of your torque tube and bellcrank tube which fits
> tightly and rotates in a bearing tube. Can those ends be masked off
> before coating? And the insides of the bearing tubes as well.
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting control system metal parts |
Most of the Fabric "glues" will lift the zinc chromate as well. Then there goes
your rust protection.
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Luther
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Painting control system metal parts
Hi Rick:
I am really sold on the Poly-Fiber two part white Epoxy primer for all of my
metal parts. After seven days of cure time it is a really durable finish. Paint
stripper won't touch it and I can't scratch it off with my finger nail and
I can polish the primer to a nice sheen for a final finish. I did read that
Epoxy primer will get a little chalky after a few years of UV.
Zinc chromate as a primer for steel works just fine, but I ran into durability
issues when I tried to topcoat the primer with spray enamel.
Mike Luther
Rick Holland wrote:
What have you guys used to paint your control system parts (after zinc
chromate primer)? Was thinking of using rustoleum spray paint.
Lighter colors are better at showing weld cracks correct?
--
Rick Holland
- The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting control system metal parts |
Rick,
I finally settled on Rust-o-leam appliance epoxy spray paint. In the
hardware store with a picture of a fridge or stove on it. Not too many
choices for color,,,black,white or almond. Cause I made all the controls
black, it worked out. Since most parts can fit into an oven, I sprayed
and baked at 250 F for about 1/2 hour. When it cools, it seems to be bullet
proof, even MEK wont touch it.
I was put onto this by my Mentor AP.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Painting control system metal parts
>
> What have you guys used to paint your control system parts (after zinc
> chromate primer)? Was thinking of using rustoleum spray paint.
> Lighter colors are better at showing weld cracks correct?
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | engine available |
I just heard about an engine /prop combo that is available. This is a Chevy
(GM) 2.5 Liter - 4 cylinder engine with a wooden prop. A retired Doctor (or
dentist) built this engine up for a Corben Baby Ace and it was completed and
flew. It was very satisfatory however evidently some family members
"encouraged" him to convert to a continental. Auto engine Phobia, I guess.
He told me it had a special cam put in to make the max power 92 hp at a
lower RPM than what the engine is rated at. I think it also of course comes
with carb, prop hub, stacks, etc.
This is the same type engine that Larry Harrison flew with for years - I
flew that plane several times and it was a sweet engine. It also LOOKS
very much like a Model A.
Dr Wicker is known here locally as a VERY capable builder and pilot having
built and flown a Marquart Charger for years.
Anyway - I have no interest in this at all - diont get a thing out of it -I
just wanted to pass it along.
If anybody wants his telephone number, e-mail me off line.
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAtAhQjeL0f0My6LzBe+kaZaZGxE3VyOAIVAJWiL+ExnS/wn4EWPTZLviU7NfEJ
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | 2.5 Chevy engine |
Hi Burt: Did Larry Harrison ( or any one else ) ever do a "how to
convert" article for that engine? I was wanting to use the Chevy. 2.5
originally, but knew nothing about what was needed to convert one for
ac. use. I now have a fortune invested in a Model A, but may still like
to know more about it for a future project. Thanks Leon Stefan in Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting control system metal parts |
Walt
Did you use any primer before applying that? That must be a big oven
you have to fit a torque tube.
Rick H
> Rick,
> I finally settled on Rust-o-leam appliance epoxy spray paint. In the
> hardware store with a picture of a fridge or stove on it. Not too many
> choices for color,,,black,white or almond. Cause I made all the controls
> black, it worked out. Since most parts can fit into an oven, I sprayed
> and baked at 250 F for about 1/2 hour. When it cools, it seems to be bullet
> proof, even MEK wont touch it.
> I was put onto this by my Mentor AP.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 11:05 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Painting control system metal parts
>
> >
> > What have you guys used to paint your control system parts (after zinc
> > chromate primer)? Was thinking of using rustoleum spray paint.
> > Lighter colors are better at showing weld cracks correct?
> >
> > --
> > Rick Holland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aileron Horn Question |
| From: | "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
Hi all,
It' 50 and sunny here in Des Moines, can't wait for spring. What's the
consensuses regarding aileron horn construction? The manual says 20
gauge and bend without heat while the plans say 22 guage, all welded
with no bend. 4130 only? Anybody just use flat aluminum? Thanks for
all the help!
Jack Textor
Still building ribs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aileron Horn Question |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
I used .032" 4130, bent and welded. Makes a nice lightweight and very
stiff and strong unit. The edge welding is very easy to do and requires
little or no filler rod. Makes a nice "antique" touch to the airplane
(looks just like the control horns on the Spirit of St. Louis). Drill
all holes after welding.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC (48 F and rain today, but 67 tomorrow)
-----Original Message-----
Hi all,
It' 50 and sunny here in Des Moines, can't wait for spring. What's the
consensuses regarding aileron horn construction? The manual says 20
gauge and bend without heat while the plans say 22 guage, all welded
with no bend. 4130 only? Anybody just use flat aluminum? Thanks for
all the help!
Jack Textor
Still building ribs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting control system metal parts |
Rick,
The cans instructions specifically said not to use primer, so I didn't. The
instructions were odd cause it said to apply second coat within 1/2 hour OR
after like two weeks. I top coated one piece after one hour, and the second
coat attacks the first, and you have a wrinkley mess.
Get around this by baking between coats.
Yeah, think that the torque tube was the only thing that I let air dry
between coats.
Try this paint on some scrap. Cut some coat hanger into like 3" pieces and
bend a hook on each end. I had a string between two trees in the yard that
I would hang the stuff onto while painting. Hold the top of the hook with
your fingers on each piece so you can look at and spin the piece around
while painting, then hang it. and the next piece etc.
then heat the oven to 250 F and pull out the top rack. Two by two carry the
pieces inside and hang them from the rack. After about half hour take out
and cool by hanging somewhere. You won't be disappointed in the durability.
All you've got to lose is about $5.00 for one can
walt evans
NX140DL
PS if you're married, you may want to do this when the wife is out shopping
for the day
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Painting control system metal parts
>
> Walt
>
> Did you use any primer before applying that? That must be a big oven
> you have to fit a torque tube.
>
> Rick H
>
>
wrote:
> > Rick,
> > I finally settled on Rust-o-leam appliance epoxy spray paint. In the
> > hardware store with a picture of a fridge or stove on it. Not too many
> > choices for color,,,black,white or almond. Cause I made all the
controls
> > black, it worked out. Since most parts can fit into an oven, I
sprayed
> > and baked at 250 F for about 1/2 hour. When it cools, it seems to be
bullet
> > proof, even MEK wont touch it.
> > I was put onto this by my Mentor AP.
> > walt evans
> > NX140DL
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 11:05 AM
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Painting control system metal parts
> >
> > >
> > > What have you guys used to paint your control system parts (after zinc
> > > chromate primer)? Was thinking of using rustoleum spray paint.
> > > Lighter colors are better at showing weld cracks correct?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Rick Holland
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Horn Question |
Jack,
My 1934 plans say welded WITH a bend with 22 ga steel. That's what I did. seems
very whispy before bending and welding, but after the welding, it's very impressive
how strong the horns are.
none of them flew off yet!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Textor, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 2:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
Hi all,
It' 50 and sunny here in Des Moines, can't wait for spring. What's the consensuses
regarding aileron horn construction? The manual says 20 gauge and bend
without heat while the plans say 22 guage, all welded with no bend. 4130 only?
Anybody just use flat aluminum? Thanks for all the help!
Jack Textor
Still building ribs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FTLovley(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Horn Question |
I don't know how thick it is...but I watched Bernard make those aileron horns
and elevator horns from the mild steel tops from 5 gallon dope cans. They
didn't have an actual bend in them...he just formed them so that after brazing
they were airfoil shaped with the thick section near the front.
Forrest Lovley
Jordan MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Horn Question |
Thanks Forrest,
Every once in a while I need a letter like yours to set me back on track.
Aileron horns from dope cans, leading edge ply from Quaker Oats containers,
and split gear from water pipe. We still have to make it good, but
Bernard made them from pretty basic stuff, so what we use today should hold
together pretty darn good.
Ain't life grand!!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: <FTLovley(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
>
> I don't know how thick it is...but I watched Bernard make those aileron
horns
> and elevator horns from the mild steel tops from 5 gallon dope cans. They
> didn't have an actual bend in them...he just formed them so that after
brazing
> they were airfoil shaped with the thick section near the front.
> Forrest Lovley
> Jordan MN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | OT - Quad City Challenger II |
has anyone on the list ever flown a Challenger II?? If so do you know if
the wings are easily foldable for storage/transportation? I ask because I
have an opportunity to go in a partnership with one. My uncle wants to
build a plane and he's decided on the Challenger II. Build time is about
200 hrs and with the both of us tackling the project we could be flying
inside of 4 months.
for those who don't know what it is here's the site.... it's a low and slow
2 seat plane.
www.http://www.quadcitychallenger.com/
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Horn Question |
.028 is the thickness I used. Seemed pretty flimsy until the halves were formed
and welded.
They were then incredibly strong. And light.
They aren't all that difficult to make and are quite satisfying to complete.
I've seen many that were simply made from a single piece of .090 steel, it works
but is heavy. I have not seen any aluminum horns.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: Textor, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 1:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn Question
Hi all,
It' 50 and sunny here in Des Moines, can't wait for spring. What's the consensuses
regarding aileron horn construction? The manual says 20 gauge and bend
without heat while the plans say 22 guage, all welded with no bend. 4130 only?
Anybody just use flat aluminum? Thanks for all the help!
Jack Textor
Still building ribs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | brian jardine <saddleguys(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OT - Quad City Challenger II |
DJ,
I had a Challenger II for a while. The wings attach in the standard form; 4 bolts
on top of the fuse, and several bolts for the wing struts. You would also disconnect
the flaperon linkage connections. You could assemble and disassemble
each time you wanted to fly but it would become a pain. Mine took several hundred
hours to assemble, it was fun and it went together nicely. The challenger
is a nice flying plane. Good luck.
Brian
Clinton, UT
DJ Vegh wrote:
has anyone on the list ever flown a Challenger II?? If so do you know if
the wings are easily foldable for storage/transportation? I ask because I
have an opportunity to go in a partnership with one. My uncle wants to
build a plane and he's decided on the Challenger II. Build time is about
200 hrs and with the both of us tackling the project we could be flying
inside of 4 months.
for those who don't know what it is here's the site.... it's a low and slow
2 seat plane.
www.http://www.quadcitychallenger.com/
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Horn Question |
In a message dated 2/14/05 1:48:03 PM Central Standard Time,
jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com writes:
<< What's the
consensuses regarding aileron horn construction? >>
Jack,
Plans type horns are much more than adequate, three dimensional making them
very strong, easy to build, and well proven. Aluminum horns are Risky Business
!!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OT - Quad City Challenger II |
DJ,
I've never flown, and I don't think I've ever seen a Challenger II, but I've
heard of it somewhere...probably in one of the magazines. I'm always
interested in anything that flys, but the link you listed didn't work for me.
Oh,
well....kit planes are for Sissy's !! :) He he he !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OT - Quad City Challenger II |
DJ,
I met a Challenger II owner at the Brodhead fly-in last year. He mentioned
that he was selling his Challenger because it was "the most boring thing he
ever flew". You may want to get a ride in one before diving in.
BTW, I did a little tail dragger training in a Kitfox with a 582 Rotax. The
noise and vibration of that two stroke was annoying and disconcerting. It
took a lot of enjoyment out of the flight experience for me.
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | OT - Quad City Challenger II |
DJ,,,
I flew a challengerII for several years and really enjoyed it. Fly great.
But as far as pulling the wings everytime,,, you really might think about
that one. I don't believe you'll enjoy doing that everytime you fly.
But it's a real nice bird.
Carl L.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT - Quad City Challenger II
has anyone on the list ever flown a Challenger II?? If so do you know if
the wings are easily foldable for storage/transportation? I ask because I
have an opportunity to go in a partnership with one. My uncle wants to
build a plane and he's decided on the Challenger II. Build time is about
200 hrs and with the both of us tackling the project we could be flying
inside of 4 months.
for those who don't know what it is here's the site.... it's a low and slow
2 seat plane.
www.http://www.quadcitychallenger.com/
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chad Johnson" <flynpiper(at)cox.net> |
DJ, I also have no experience with the challenger but I do fly a Kolb Firestar
II that my uncle built. I absolutely love it. I compare it to riding a motocycle
with wings. The Kolb is somewhat like the Challenger. Very well designed
and rugged. Feels and flys like a conventional airplane. The Kolbs wings fold
very easily, a one-man job, no problem. It uses a Rotax 503, dual carb.
Plenty of power even with my 200 lbs and another 130 in the rear seat. The firestar
is definately a "bugs in the teeth" airplane. Chasing coyotes, turkeys
or just enjoying the view, its a great way to blow off the sawdust from piet
building!! Good luck.
Chad Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: OT - Quad City Challenger II |
Too many www's, Chuck. Check the addy when it comes up
in the address line and remove the extra http's and www's.
There is apparently an issue with vertical tail effectiveness when
the cockpit is fully enclosed. Most of the ones I've seen have
plexy fins added at the ends of the stab, about a square foot
each, just like the ones you see on float Beavers. I think in
Britain you're required to install an addition to the vertical fin.
There are a lot flying though.
Clif
>
> DJ,
> I've never flown, and I don't think I've ever seen a Challenger II, but
I've
> heard of it somewhere...probably in one of the magazines. I'm always
> interested in anything that flys, but the link you listed didn't work for
me. Oh,
> well....kit planes are for Sissy's !! :) He he he !!
>
> Chuck G.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Holcomb" <ksholcomb(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OT - Quad City Challenger II |
That Rotax may be loud, but trust me that is a good noise. I was gave a
friend a BFR in the really nice Kitfox that he had built himself last year.
That Rotax suddenly stopped making noise. It was shortly after takeoff
with approx 250 feet to work with. We landed straight ahead, or rather
right where we were because the airplane just doesn't glide very far. All
we had to work with was Citrus grove so into the trees we went. After a
real quick review of the situation, which with a Rotax does not take long,
there just is not much to look at (fuel, ignition, throttle, and you are
out of levers/buttons). The good news is that we demonstrated that if you
keep her under control, get her slow and do your best flare you have a
great chance of living. We did, I was unscratched, but rather bruised from
the seatbelts and from a tube from the landing gear that buckled and drove
itself up through the seat, thankfully the seat cushion was thick. My
friend needed surgery for a destroyed ankle; he is just now getting back to
walking. And of course the airplane is trash.
There was fuel onboard, in fact the left wing tank split open so there was
fuel everywhere. Only one prop blade was damaged so it wasn't turning at
the time of impact. The engine, a Rotax 532 had 71 hours since new and
about 2 hours since a teardown/inspection by Lockwood (the presumed
experts.) The teardown was not inspired by any particular event, it was
just the sort of careful over the top maintenance that my friend did on the
airplane he built. Needless to say I am not impressed with Rotax. It did
change the way I think while flying; where I would land is never far from
my mind. Reliability seems a lot more important than it ever did before,
and for myself I no longer have any interest in airplane engines without a
long, happy and established history in the field.
Friends don't let friends fly a Rotax,
Kevin
www.airminded.net
> [Original Message]
> From: Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)direcway.com>
> To:
> Date: 2/14/2005 11:51:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT - Quad City Challenger II
>
>
> DJ,
>
> I met a Challenger II owner at the Brodhead fly-in last year. He
mentioned
> that he was selling his Challenger because it was "the most boring thing
he
> ever flew". You may want to get a ride in one before diving in.
>
> BTW, I did a little tail dragger training in a Kitfox with a 582 Rotax.
The
> noise and vibration of that two stroke was annoying and disconcerting. It
> took a lot of enjoyment out of the flight experience for me.
>
> Greg Bacon
> Prairie Home, MO
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aileron Horn Question |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
Forrest is right - you don't actually bend the steel in a crease. You
want to make the leading edge rounded. I hammered the thin steel sheet
around a 1/2" steel rod to form the curve, then edge welded the two
halves together. One of the most fun parts to make on the whole
project. I can't understand why anyone would put up with the increased
weight of solid .090" thick steel horns when these are so light and so
much fun to make.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
I don't know how thick it is...but I watched Bernard make those aileron
horns
and elevator horns from the mild steel tops from 5 gallon dope cans.
They
didn't have an actual bend in them...he just formed them so that after
brazing
they were airfoil shaped with the thick section near the front.
Forrest Lovley
Jordan MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FTLovley(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Horn Question |
Gary...actually, I believe that the dope cans back in the 30"s were probably
lighter material than today...I have some old ones from Berry Brothers and
they are pretty thin...no OSHA, hazardous shipping regulations, etc, etc...also,
they didn't have to be strong enough for uncaring shippers to mistreat. The
material is very ductile mild steel that is easy to form, and not prone to
cracks. And if you use them to build your airplane, it won't cost you anything
to
get rid of them...:>)
Forrest Lovley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | a useful FAA web site ! |
Hey guys-- I was stumbling around looking for something on the web and
found this site----VERY good for
bookmarking. http://www.faa.gov/fsdo/phl/IAREF.HTM
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: a useful FAA web site ! |
Wow! nice find.
I just went there and downloaded the safety belt attachment AC. 47 pages
of kick arse info!
tons of other goodies too!
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: a useful FAA web site !
>
> Hey guys-- I was stumbling around looking for something on the web and
> found this site----VERY good for
> bookmarking. http://www.faa.gov/fsdo/phl/IAREF.HTM
>
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | walking beam attachment |
I'm ready to attach my walking beam for the elevator controls in my Aircamper
and I like to see how others have done it. The original plans and the 1932 Glider
manual show the bearings just attached the the vertical fuselage struts with
3/16" bolts. The Skyscout plans in the 1933 glider manual show the bearings
attached to 2'' x 5" spruce blocks bolted and glued to the inside of the vertical
struts. I have seen photos on the web with the spruce blocks, but they were
only glued an no additional bolts. I've also seen examples of the original
attacment method.
I am a little reluctant to drill the two 3/16" holes through the strut since if
the strut collapses I'll be in a heap of hurt. I'm assuming thats why Bernie
changed it on the '33 skyscout plans. What have most others done?
Thanks,
Rick
Richard Schreiber
lmforge(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: walking beam attachment |
Drill the holes and don't worry about it. I doubt if one of those uprights has
ever broken because of the holes drilled through it.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Schreiber
To: pietenpol list
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: walking beam attachment
I'm ready to attach my walking beam for the elevator controls in my Aircamper
and I like to see how others have done it. The original plans and the 1932 Glider
manual show the bearings just attached the the vertical fuselage struts
with 3/16" bolts. The Skyscout plans in the 1933 glider manual show the bearings
attached to 2'' x 5" spruce blocks bolted and glued to the inside of the vertical
struts. I have seen photos on the web with the spruce blocks, but they
were only glued an no additional bolts. I've also seen examples of the original
attacment method.
I am a little reluctant to drill the two 3/16" holes through the strut since
if the strut collapses I'll be in a heap of hurt. I'm assuming thats why Bernie
changed it on the '33 skyscout plans. What have most others done?
Thanks,
Rick
Richard Schreiber
lmforge(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pilots4ETW(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | 4130 cutting with PLASMA? |
Has anyone had good results cutting 4130 sheet with a plasma cutter?
Gas (the old cutting torch method) renders sloppy results and I'd like a
better way to cut 4130.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 4130 cutting with PLASMA? |
I had a chance to try out a plasma cutter. It's a great tool. You can cut any
shape quickly and neatly. I havent seen on for less than about $1000. I keep
looking and wishing.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Pilots4ETW(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 4130 cutting with PLASMA?
Has anyone had good results cutting 4130 sheet with a plasma cutter?
Gas (the old cutting torch method) renders sloppy results and I'd like a better
way to cut 4130.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 4130 cutting with PLASMA? |
in a perfect world I'd have a TIG welder, MIG welder, Gas welder/Torch AND a plasma
cutter. You could do some awesome metalwork with that setup.
Of course a Flowjet water cutter, 8' shear, 8' brake, metal roller, English Wheel,
power hammer, mandrel pipe bender would be nice too.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 4130 cutting with PLASMA?
I had a chance to try out a plasma cutter. It's a great tool. You can cut any
shape quickly and neatly. I havent seen on for less than about $1000. I keep
looking and wishing.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Pilots4ETW(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 4130 cutting with PLASMA?
Has anyone had good results cutting 4130 sheet with a plasma cutter?
Gas (the old cutting torch method) renders sloppy results and I'd like a better
way to cut 4130.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: 4130 cutting with PLASMA? |
Friction sawing on a band saw works very well. I see no reason why a plasma cutter
would not work.
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: Pilots4ETW(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 4130 cutting with PLASMA?
Has anyone had good results cutting 4130 sheet with a plasma cutter?
Gas (the old cutting torch method) renders sloppy results and I'd like a better
way to cut 4130.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters
Went to the airport this afternoon for a part and in this hangar was a Cuby,
wingless. I asked about it. It was built as a EAA project and finished out by
an individual member. He flew it for a short time and it got away from him as
he propped it w/o chocks, hit a hangar and damaged the wings. One new spar in
one wing and a few small dinkies and leading edge on the other. No prop or
engine damage. Operator who bought it says he doesn't have the time to finish it.
Both wings need covering and a few places need covering on the fuse.
Otherwise should be a good flyer with the minimum of work. Located at Downtown
Airport, Shreveport, La. Contact Lee Gunter 318 226 1512 or Leedonna(at)shreve.net.
I
told him I would list this on the net for him. Oh, it has an A-80 Continental.
Corky in Louisiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Forgot the most important part. He wants $ 7500.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 4130 cutting with PLASMA? |
Unless there's some hardening in the immediate area of the flame.....that may not
always be desirable.
Northern Tool and Harbor both have an outstanding metal cutting band saw (cuts
horiz and vert) for around $170.....EASILY worth the money.....
jm
----- Original Message -----
From: cgalley
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 4130 cutting with PLASMA?
Friction sawing on a band saw works very well. I see no reason why a plasma cutter
would not work.
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: Pilots4ETW(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 4130 cutting with PLASMA?
Has anyone had good results cutting 4130 sheet with a plasma cutter?
Gas (the old cutting torch method) renders sloppy results and I'd like a better
way to cut 4130.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 4130 cutting with PLASMA? |
I'd add to your list ---a metal cutting band saw- in fact I'd list it first.
Henry Williams
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: walking beam attachment |
In a message dated 2/15/05 7:28:36 PM Central Standard Time,
lmforge(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< I am a little reluctant to drill the two 3/16" holes through the strut
since if the strut collapses I'll be in a heap of hurt. I'm assuming thats why
Bernie changed it on the '33 skyscout plans. What have most others done? >>
Rick,
I drilled for the 3/16" bolts, acording to the plans. Just use care to make
nice clean straight holes. I also drilled a #40 hole in the top of each of
the bellcrank bearings, so I could oil them at each yearly 'Condition
Inspection'.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 4130 cutting with PLASMA? |
In a message dated 2/16/05 6:15:56 PM Central Standard Time,
jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
<< Northern Tool and Harbor both have an outstanding metal cutting band saw
(cuts horiz and vert) for around $170.....EASILY worth the money..... >>
That's what I use to cut all my 4130, both tubing and sheet steel. When I
raise it up to verticle, I use it to cut sheet steel over.090" thick. I bought
mine used for $30.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | hydraulic disc brakes / wheels on ebay |
these may appeal to someone on the list.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item4527917146&category26439
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 4130 cutting with PLASMA? |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
I just use a bandsaw. Nothing you will be cutting for a Pietenpol is
thick enough to worry with torch methods. Some can be cut with shears.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Pilots4ETW(at)wmconnect.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 4130 cutting with PLASMA?
Has anyone had good results cutting 4130 sheet with a plasma cutter?
Gas (the old cutting torch method) renders sloppy results and I'd like a
better way to cut 4130.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leroy Brandt <lebrandt(at)charter.net> |
I have the Jet horizontal/verticle bandsaw and really like it so far.
About all I have cut with it is 4130 making pratice pieces for TIG
welding. Those welds do get hard I found out. If you saw too close to
the weld to use the pieces over again you'll destroy the blade in only a
couple cuts.
I wonder if anyone has found a good set of hole saws to use with a Joint
Jigger. I have gone through a few bi-metal saws by Dewalt. They have
course teeth and tend to break on the hard chrome moly tubing.
Anyone know if a finer tooth hole saw would last longer.
What about grinding the fish mouth to shape or cutting with snips and
filing to finsh it off.
Thanks for listening.
Leroy Brandt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Cabane bottom attachment |
I am planning on using the smaller (2.4") streamline aluminum struts
from Carlson for my cabanes, mostly based on info from this newsgroup.
On the plans the cabane lower attachment bolt that goes through the
two .090 fittings is about 3/8" above the longeron. This means that
the 1/4" hole in the bottom end of the cabane is 3/8" (or a little
less) from the end. Question is, does this put the hole too close to
the end of the cabane? From what I have read any hole center should be
2 x hole diameter from the edge of the material.
Thanks
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cabane bottom attachment |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
As usual, in this area BHP made his fittings too short. Lengthen the
fittings to get proper edge distance on the holes. In nearly every
fitting on the airplane, Bernard was a little stingy with material.
Makes for a light airplane, but some of those fittings are pretty
critical and will ruin your day if they fail
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cabane bottom attachment
I am planning on using the smaller (2.4") streamline aluminum struts
from Carlson for my cabanes, mostly based on info from this newsgroup.
On the plans the cabane lower attachment bolt that goes through the
two .090 fittings is about 3/8" above the longeron. This means that
the 1/4" hole in the bottom end of the cabane is 3/8" (or a little
less) from the end. Question is, does this put the hole too close to
the end of the cabane? From what I have read any hole center should be
2 x hole diameter from the edge of the material.
Thanks
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabane bottom attachment |
lengthen the fittings and insert a 4" piece of 2024-T351 Square bar into
the bottom end of the cabane. Place a bolt through the cabane and bar above
the fitting.... this helps put some load further up on the cabane.
I used Carlson (Sky-Tek) struts and that's how I did mine.
see these pics.
http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-30-03.htm
DJ Vegh
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cabane bottom attachment
>
> I am planning on using the smaller (2.4") streamline aluminum struts
> from Carlson for my cabanes, mostly based on info from this newsgroup.
> On the plans the cabane lower attachment bolt that goes through the
> two .090 fittings is about 3/8" above the longeron. This means that
> the 1/4" hole in the bottom end of the cabane is 3/8" (or a little
> less) from the end. Question is, does this put the hole too close to
> the end of the cabane? From what I have read any hole center should be
> 2 x hole diameter from the edge of the material.
>
> Thanks
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 4130 cutting with PLASMA? |
Hi Chuck:
I got a Harbor Freight metal cutting bandsaw but I am not real pleased
with it. I doesn't cut straight in the horizontal position, the blade veers
off to one side. In the vertical position the blade jumps off the wheels. Is
there any way to correct this? My buddy has a King brand, but the same saw
and his is great.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 4130 cutting with PLASMA?
>
> In a message dated 2/16/05 6:15:56 PM Central Standard Time,
> jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
>
> << Northern Tool and Harbor both have an outstanding metal cutting band
saw
> (cuts horiz and vert) for around $170.....EASILY worth the money..... >>
>
> That's what I use to cut all my 4130, both tubing and sheet steel. When I
> raise it up to verticle, I use it to cut sheet steel over.090" thick. I
bought
> mine used for $30.
>
> Chuck G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Harbor Freight bandsaws / was: 4130 cutting with PLASMA? |
Don't even consider using the blade Harbor Freight sends you with the
bandsaw; go get a real blade from somewhere reputable. Better yet, buy your
blade by the foot, get some silver solder and make them to length yourself.
Jim Ash
>
>
>Hi Chuck:
> I got a Harbor Freight metal cutting bandsaw but I am not real pleased
>with it. I doesn't cut straight in the horizontal position, the blade veers
>off to one side. In the vertical position the blade jumps off the wheels. Is
>there any way to correct this? My buddy has a King brand, but the same saw
>and his is great.
>Dennis
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:08 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 4130 cutting with PLASMA?
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 2/16/05 6:15:56 PM Central Standard Time,
> > jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
> >
> > << Northern Tool and Harbor both have an outstanding metal cutting band
>saw
> > (cuts horiz and vert) for around $170.....EASILY worth the money..... >>
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Thursby" <jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | OT - Quad City Challenger II |
Funny, I have over 500 hours behind/in front of Rotax two-strokes and 700
hours behind the 912/914 series. Zero failures with the exception of the
carb falling out of the boot on my Fisher 303 with a little Rotax 277 single
lunger. I have had one failure with a Continental and one with a Lycoming
though.
Jim T.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin
Holcomb
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT - Quad City Challenger II
"Kevin Holcomb"
Friends don't let friends fly a Rotax,
Kevin
www.airminded.net
> [Original Message]
> From: Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)direcway.com>
> To:
> Date: 2/14/2005 11:51:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT - Quad City Challenger II
>
>
> DJ,
>
> I met a Challenger II owner at the Brodhead fly-in last year. He
mentioned
> that he was selling his Challenger because it was "the most boring thing
he
> ever flew". You may want to get a ride in one before diving in.
>
> BTW, I did a little tail dragger training in a Kitfox with a 582 Rotax.
The
> noise and vibration of that two stroke was annoying and disconcerting. It
> took a lot of enjoyment out of the flight experience for me.
>
> Greg Bacon
> Prairie Home, MO
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Band Saw Adjustments |
In a message dated 2/17/05 7:03:37 PM Central Standard Time,
wingding(at)usmo.com writes:
<< Hi Chuck:
I got a Harbor Freight metal cutting bandsaw but I am not real pleased
with it. I doesn't cut straight in the horizontal position, the blade veers
off to one side. In the vertical position the blade jumps off the wheels. Is
there any way to correct this? My buddy has a King brand, but the same saw
and his is great.
Dennis >>
Dennis,
I had the exact same problem with mine, but it only jumped off every once
in a while, mostly when the teeth caught and stalled the movement of the
blade, then it would jump off. It seems to be a fairly common problem with these
saws. I used it like that for quite a while, before attempting to figure out
the problem. Here is what I did to correct it :
Just remember...Safety First !! Always make a Visual Disconnect, when
working on any piece of equipment, which means UNPLUG THE CHORD !!
The saw is designed to twist the blade at the portion where it does the
cutting. It seemed that it didn't twist the blade quite far enough to make a
90 cut, and it would make a crooked cut. There is a sliding portion of the
blade guides, where the roller bearings are, and at each of these locations I
made a small shim to go under there on one side of the lock bolt, to make it
twist the blade just a little bit more. The shim is about .015" thick, and 1/4"
wide, and about 3" or 4" long. I placed the shim on the side of the threaded
locking bolt, so it would twist the blade a little bit more. Presto !! Makes
straight 90 cuts !!
There is also adjustments on the idler pulley, for blade tension, and
blade track. These adjustments have to be done to keep the blade on course. For
the blade tension, loosen the two bolts that lock the sliding idler pulley, I
think it takes a 12mm wrench, and tighten the blade with the 3" black knob,
till the blade on the back side is tight enough to twang maybe a B flat note
(nice and tight, but not too tight). Then rotate the motor by hand, to see how
the blade tracks. You will have to remove the belt guard to do this. If it
creeps off the pulley, adjust the other bolt that makes the idler pulley angle
in a little, and you can actually watch the blade go back on the pulley. Do
this by hand, with the saw unplugged, to get the blade on track. Make the
blade come back on the pulleys, but not so much as to make the blade ride on the
little ridge on the back side of the pulley. If you over adjust, it would
probably wear out that ridge. When satisfied, plug the saw back in, and with the
blade cover still swung out of the way, just bump the switch on, and right
back off, a couple of times. If the blade still looks like it is on track, turn
it on, and watch to see what the blade does. If it stays in place on the
pulleys, turn it off, close and secure the blade cover, and have at it. If it
does not track on the pulleys, and tends to creep off the pulley, stop and unplug
the plug, and re-adjust the blade guide on the idler pulley - the one that
makes the idler pulley angle in and out.
When the blade jumps off, I unplug the saw, raise it to the verticle
position, open the blade cover, get the blade on the top idler pulley, and part
way around the driven pulley. Then with a stick of wood, I hold the blade in
place on the driven pulley, while I rotate the motor by hand, until the blade
goes all the way around the driven pulley.
Chuck Gantzer
in the rain soaked Land of Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
l4grasshopper(at)cox.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: (no subject) |
In a message dated 2/19/2005 1:21:05 PM Central Standard Time, JimNikls
writes:
-52 UAV
Unbelievable that someone would make this - all real turbines! Check out the
movie link below. Could be a UAV contender?
From: JimNikls(at)aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:21:05 EST
Subject: (no subject)
Isablcorky(at)aol.com, dick(at)dethloffinsurance.com, ENHEND(at)aol.com,
awferg(at)kingwoodcable.net, jimgraham(at)iopener.net, JMOORES(at)WebTV.net,
pwpeavy(at)bellsouth.net, JLQ1(at)COX.NET, rhlehew(at)shaw.ca, Horizon(at)hcm3.com,
hvaughan(at)sport.rr.com, jwwright3(at)sbcglobal.net
--65.3f5f0fa6_alt_bound
B-52 UAV
Unbelievable that someone would make this - all real turbines! Check out
the movie link below. Could be a UAV contender?
_http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Giant_B52/B52_flight2.wmv_
(http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Giant_B52/B52_flight2.wmv)
--65.3f5f0fa6_alt_bound
B-52 UAV
Unbelievable that
someone would make this - all real turbines! Check out the movie link
below. Could be a UAV contender?
![]()
http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Giant_B52/B52_flight2.wmv
">http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Giant_B52/B52_flight2.wmv
--65.3f5f0fa6_alt_bound--
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | covering is FUN! |
well... the tail feathers are nearing completion. All covered except one elevator
and the H.stab.
I like covering! and you know what's even more disgusting?? I REALLY like stitching!
It's so fun to tie those damn knots! am I crazy or what?!
I am hoping to shoot Poly-Spray on them in the next week, maybe two
DJ Vegh
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
N74DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pilots4ETW(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Weldable flange (fiberglass fuel tank) |
I'm getting close to building my fuel tanks out of fiberglass. In looking at
the book, Sportplane Construction Techniques by Tony Bingelis (page 83) I see
the flange but don't have any idea which flange size to order for my specific
needs.
Both AS&S and Wicks show flanges using 1/8", 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 3/4" female
pipe thread in which to insert the finger strainer. I'm guessing a 3/8" would be
OK for a Contienetal A-65 or a Corvair engine's thirst? Or should I go with
1/2"?
Thanks,
Roy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Plans ordering trouble |
| From: | "Dan Loegering" <danl(at)odayequipment.com> |
Hi all,
Have finally decided to take the plunge and order plans (wife said OK) and am running
into difficulty trying to make this happen. Is the information on the
Pietenpol web site still accurate? I attempted to email Don and Andrew with the
addresses listed and they bounced back undeliverable.
Any thoughts on how I can obtain a set of plans so I can start construction?
Dan Loegering
Fargo ND
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
Anyone know whether the GN is the same airfoil as the B H Pietenpol?
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
it is with the exception of the radius of the leading edge. the GN1 has a larger
radius for a more blunt leading edge. Other than that it's the same.
also the spars are placed on 31" centers on the GN1.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Airfoils
Pieters,
Anyone know whether the GN is the same airfoil as the B H Pietenpol?
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Charvet" <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Plans ordering trouble |
I ordered my plans in November and used the Paypal option for payment. They
were delivered within 2 weeks and even included a letter from Don Pietenpol
suggesting that I make at least one part every day. I never received any
e-mails from them though.
Ben Charvet
Just getting started too
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 2/21/05 12:18:52 PM Central Standard Time, djv(at)imagedv.com
writes:
<< it is with the exception of the radius of the leading edge. the GN1 has
a larger radius for a more blunt leading edge. Other than that it's the same.
also the spars are placed on 31" centers on the GN1.
DJ >>
DJ is correct about the leading edge, and although I've never seen the GN1
and the Pietenpol 'FC 10' overlaid on each other, I'd be willing to bet there
are other small differences. I do understand that a larger radius on the
leading edge helps keep the wing flying at a higher 'Critical Angle of Attack'
(AOA
when the wing begins to stall). Have you ever noticed how large the radius is
on aerobatic planes? It's Huge !! It allows them to fly at a higher angle
of attack, and use the enormous amount of thrust to maintain altitude, when
they are behind the power curve. The official name for behind the power curve
is the 'Region of Reversed Command'. The drawback to a larger radius leading
edge is in cruise flight, where drag is increased significantly...that's why
the aerobatic planes don't make a very efficient cross country plane. Nothing
is for Free in aircraft design !!
Chuck G.
Hey...I've been reading a book by Berry Schiff called '1001 Things You Though
You Knew About Aviation'.
Why was it decided in the 18th Century that the territorial limit of the
United States (and other countries) should extend three miles beyond shore ?
This was the maximum range of a shore based cannon.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weldable flange (fiberglass fuel tank) |
In a message dated 2/21/05 8:20:19 AM Central Standard Time,
Pilots4ETW(at)wmconnect.com writes:
<< I'm getting close to building my fuel tanks out of fiberglass. In looking
at
the book, Sportplane Construction Techniques by Tony Bingelis (page 83) I
see
the flange but don't have any idea which flange size to order for my
specific
needs.
Both AS&S and Wicks show flanges using 1/8", 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 3/4" female
pipe thread in which to insert the finger strainer. I'm guessing a 3/8"
would be
OK for a Contienetal A-65 or a Corvair engine's thirst? Or should I go with
1/2"?
Thanks,
Roy >>
Roy,
I believe 3/8" is the chosen pipe thread for the small Continentals. That is
what I used, however I did some rework to the finger strainer. The only
finger strainer I could find had 3/8" male pipe threads, and reduced to 1/4"
female threads, with a hex to tighten the finger strainer into the weldable
fitting. I was afraid 1/4" is too small, and would restrict fuel flow. I reworked
the finger strainer by using a die to cut the male threads of the finger
strainer down to the point where it would go in the female threads of the weldable
fitting enough to allow an AN822 ELBOW with 3/8" male pipe thread on one
end, to go into the weldable fitting, and 3/8" Flair fitting on the other end of
the elbow. I left the hex on the finger strainer till I got the threads cut
down enough, then cut the hex off, and used a square easy out to install and
seat the finger strainer down in the weldable fitting, then installed the elbow
on top of it. I ruined the first finger strainer, by cutting too much threads
off, and it just threaded right through the weldable fitting. I now have
3/8" plumbing all the way from the tank, through the gascolator, to the carb.
Oh yeah, before glassing it in, I also cut the ridge down around the
radius of the weldable fitting, so the fiberglass layers would lay right up around
it.
Chuck G.
the word 'Aileron' is derived from a French word referring to a 'Small Wing'.
(sheesh.......I feel like Cliff Claven from Cheers !! )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | GN-1 project on ebay |
This looks pretty nice........
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4529984847&category=63679&sspagename=WDVW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 project on ebay |
that's the same one that was for sale last year. Not sure why it's listed
again cause I thought it sold last time.
It does look nice though. I like the aluminum combing work.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 project on ebay
>
>
> This looks pretty nice........
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4529984847&category=63679&sspagename=WDVW
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
Listers,
I was wondering if it is really necessary to purchase plans for the
Pietenpol Air Camper, or the GN-1, when the plans in the 1932 Flying and Glider
Manual (available from EAA) seem to be good enough to build from? Isn't that
why
they were published originally?
Dan Hopper
Walton, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Why buy plans? |
Dan,
The plans include changes/improvements to several areas including cable routings,
landing gear, spar fittings,
rib construction, etc...
Greg Cardinal
FAA paperwork is DONE and approved!
Final inspection to be scheduled in MARCH!
----- Original Message -----
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 6:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Why buy plans?
Listers,
I was wondering if it is really necessary to purchase plans for the Pietenpol
Air Camper, or the GN-1, when the plans in the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual
(available from EAA) seem to be good enough to build from? Isn't that why they
were published originally?
Dan Hopper
Walton, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
Dan,
You could build from the F&G plans. The 1934 plans, from Don Pietenpol, are called
improved and most seem to think they are. They are also bigger and there is
more detail. The 34 plans are 2 1/2 inches longer and the Corvair fuselage is
about 14 inches longer, you may want the longer fuse if you are larger than
about 5'8" and 180 lbs. or just want more space. If you use the F&G plans check
out the diagonal brace in the pilot pit, it goes the same way all the other
diagonals go, opposite from the 34 plans. The F&G are also missing the long gusset
on the lower longeron aft of the pilot seat and the large gusset on the tail
post. The 34 plans also have larger and harder wood braces across the floor
at the lift strut attach points. Hope this helps.
Skip
Hales Landing WV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Why buy plans? |
Dan,
I think you could easily use the F&G plans. There
seem to be about three types of Piet builders: those
who stick religiously to the plans and don't stray at
all, those who stray just a little from the plans, and
those who stray a lot. There are even a few who use
the plans only as an educational resource and from
them build an entirely different airplane. All of the
above builders are correct in that they are building
airplanes and are having fun. For my project, I could
have easily just used the F&G plans and my plane would
have turned out just the same. If you are the purist
builder, then the 1934 plans may be more helpful to
you. Either way, you will have fun building this
little airplane (and it's variations).
Doc
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 6:56 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Why buy plans?
>
>
> Listers,
>
> I was wondering if it is really necessary to
> purchase plans for the Pietenpol Air Camper, or the
> GN-1, when the plans in the 1932 Flying and Glider
> Manual (available from EAA) seem to be good enough
> to build from? Isn't that why they were published
> originally?
>
> Dan Hopper
> Walton, IN
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Hubbard <enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Netscape/7.2 (ax)
| Subject: | Re: 4130 cutting with PLASMA? |
I have one from Grizzly--it's probably from the same factory in China.
On mine, it was impossible to adjust the blade tension tight enough to
keep the blade on the wheel. I used the cutting attachment on my
welding torch to elongate the adjustment hole and get a bit more
travel. Since then it's worked OK. I agree with you that it's not a
great tool, but it gets my job done--usually. I only use it in the
vertical position, and made a new table without the big hold that the
stock one comes with.
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
Dennis Engelkenjohn wrote:
>
>Hi Chuck:
> I got a Harbor Freight metal cutting bandsaw but I am not real pleased
>with it. I doesn't cut straight in the horizontal position, the blade veers
>off to one side. In the vertical position the blade jumps off the wheels. Is
>there any way to correct this? My buddy has a King brand, but the same saw
>and his is great.
>Dennis
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:08 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 4130 cutting with PLASMA?
>
>
>
>
>>
>>In a message dated 2/16/05 6:15:56 PM Central Standard Time,
>>jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
>>
>><< Northern Tool and Harbor both have an outstanding metal cutting band
>>
>>
>saw
>
>
>>(cuts horiz and vert) for around $170.....EASILY worth the money..... >>
>>
>>That's what I use to cut all my 4130, both tubing and sheet steel. When I
>>raise it up to verticle, I use it to cut sheet steel over.090" thick. I
>>
>>
>bought
>
>
>>mine used for $30.
>>
>>Chuck G.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Hubbard <enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Netscape/7.2 (ax)
with
PLASMA?
| Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight bandsaws / was: 4130 cutting with |
PLASMA?
I've had OK luck with the bi-matellic blades from Grizzly. One breaks
every few months.
Gene
Jim Ash wrote:
>
> Don't even consider using the blade Harbor Freight sends you with the
> bandsaw; go get a real blade from somewhere reputable. Better yet, buy
> your blade by the foot, get some silver solder and make them to length
> yourself.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Chuck:
>> I got a Harbor Freight metal cutting bandsaw but I am not real
>> pleased
>> with it. I doesn't cut straight in the horizontal position, the blade
>> veers
>> off to one side. In the vertical position the blade jumps off the
>> wheels. Is
>> there any way to correct this? My buddy has a King brand, but the
>> same saw
>> and his is great.
>> Dennis
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
>> To:
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 4130 cutting with PLASMA?
>>
>>
>> >
>> > In a message dated 2/16/05 6:15:56 PM Central Standard Time,
>> > jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
>> >
>> > << Northern Tool and Harbor both have an outstanding metal cutting
>> band
>> saw
>> > (cuts horiz and vert) for around $170.....EASILY worth the
>> money..... >>
>> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 4130 cutting with PLASMA? |
<004f01c51565$d09a9900$8442fea9@karen> <421D5831.9070906(at)sbcglobal.net>
I have a question about these things. Are the wheels flat faced or crowned?
clif
I have one from Grizzly--it's probably from the same factory in China. On mine,
it was impossible to adjust the blade tension tight enough to keep the blade
on the wheel. I used the cutting attachment on my welding torch to elongate
the adjustment hole and get a bit more travel. Since then it's worked OK.
I agree with you that it's not a great tool, but it gets my job done--usually.
I only use it in the vertical position, and made a new table without the big
hold that the stock one comes with.
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "NEMuzzy" <list01(at)gourmetdamage.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Testing a rib |
What is an appropriate method to break a wing rib?
I built one tonight using stables to hold the gussets on. When I removed it
from the jig, I found that there was not enough strength in the stapled
joints to keep the rib in shape. Basically, things were shifting and
twisting. From here on out I will go back to letting the rib cure in the
jig. The rib tonight will be scrap, and I would like to bust it.
I have had the best results from gluing all of the rib and gussets together
at one time. Basically, putting a set of gussets into the jig, then all the
rib sticks, then the other set of gussets. When I put one of the 3 inch
split PVC clamps on each gusset everything is held firmly. After cure, the
rib is removed, and everything looks really good. If I don't use that much
pressure, sometimes a stick will not be seated fully, and the gusset will
not have good contact with all of the mating sticks. I am concerned that I
might be putting too much pressure on the T88 and be starving the joint.
I tried a rib with Resorcinol so as to not have the pressure concern. It
worked OK, but the T88 made a better looking rib (gap filling).
Any insight would be appreciated.
Regards-
Norm Muzzy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Testing a rib |
>What is an appropriate method to break a wing rib?
Do not install the wing tip bow and attempt to tighten your drag and anti
drag wires in the outer
bay. I did this and when the end rib failed it did so with such a force
that the noise it generated made
me think that someone had fired a cannon in my living room.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Testing a rib |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
Look at the loads imposed on a rib in flight. Generally, most of the
loading is applied to the lower capstrip, through air pressure on the
fabric on the bottom of the wing and the partial vacuum (reduced
pressure) from the air flowing over the top of the airfoil, transmitted
to the lower capstrip through the rib lacing (some load is carried by
the top capstrips, through the glue attaching the fabric to the top
capstrips). If you assume the worst case, a 3.2 G pullout from a dive
at max gross weight (say, 1100 lbs), with a 50% safety factor thrown in
for good measure, the total load seen by the wing is 1100 x 3.2 x 1.5 or
5,280 lbs. If you assume that this load is evenly distributed over the
30 ribs, each rib is carrying a total load of 176 lbs. Further assuming
that the load is evenly distributed along the 60" length of each rib,
this works out to a loading of just under 3 lbs per inch of rib length.
If you can suspend your rib to hang upside down, supported on two stubs
of spars secured to your workbench and then press down with a flat piece
of plywood 12" wide bearing down on a flat section of the rib and load
it with 36 lbs of whatever you want, this would be a reasonable
approximation of the actual loading.
Having said all that, the main thing you want to check with glue joints
is that the wood around the joint fails before the joint does. Any
method you can apply to a joint to break it (except trying peel the
doublers off - glue is not very strong in "peel strength") should
demonstrate that the wood breaks first. If the glue joint breaks and
the wood is intact, there's something wrong with your gluing technique.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of NEMuzzy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Testing a rib
What is an appropriate method to break a wing rib?
I built one tonight using stables to hold the gussets on. When I
removed it
from the jig, I found that there was not enough strength in the stapled
joints to keep the rib in shape. Basically, things were shifting and
twisting. From here on out I will go back to letting the rib cure in
the
jig. The rib tonight will be scrap, and I would like to bust it.
I have had the best results from gluing all of the rib and gussets
together
at one time. Basically, putting a set of gussets into the jig, then all
the
rib sticks, then the other set of gussets. When I put one of the 3 inch
split PVC clamps on each gusset everything is held firmly. After cure,
the
rib is removed, and everything looks really good. If I don't use that
much
pressure, sometimes a stick will not be seated fully, and the gusset
will
not have good contact with all of the mating sticks. I am concerned
that I
might be putting too much pressure on the T88 and be starving the joint.
I tried a rib with Resorcinol so as to not have the pressure concern.
It
worked OK, but the T88 made a better looking rib (gap filling).
Any insight would be appreciated.
Regards-
Norm Muzzy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING |
I called AS&S early this morning thinking I would order some 1/16th inch
thick plywood, 48 inches by 48 inches. The plywood was reasonable, just $24 but
the lady quoted me a price of $120.00 to ship it.
I then called Wicks. They wanted somewhere around $50 for the same piece of
plywood, but this time the lady on the phone said "I can't tell you about
shipping, the guys downstairs to that.."
Is this reasonable, sales (at Wicks) not knowing what the left hand is doing
and AS&S getting $120 for shipping a thin piece of 48 inch by 48 inch plywood
a couple of states away?
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING |
Sterling--- I went to UPS and it varied for a 50"x50"x2" 5 lb. package from
110 to 150 $$$$$$ !!!!
Try the FedEx ground web site. Both of these sites have calculators to
see how much things cost to ship------I certainly don't recall it being
sooeee outrageous !
Mike
http://www.ups.com/
http://www.fedex.com/us/services/us/ground.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
The problem is that when you get big pieces like that (beyond the sizes
UPS can ship), it has to go by truck and that gets expensive quickly. I
tried to have all my big stuff (spars, longerons, plywood sheets)
shipped at once so I only had to eat such a cost once. Actually, I did
do it twice - I got my spars from Wicks and my longerons and plywood
from ASS a couple of years later. As I recall it was about $100 each
time for shipping - and that was just to the trucking companiy's
terminal. I still had to manage to get the stuff from the trucking
company to my house.
Jack Phillips
Finishing the structural repairs to NX899JP this weekend, then on to
fabric repairs
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING
I called AS&S early this morning thinking I would order some 1/16th inch
thick plywood, 48 inches by 48 inches. The plywood was reasonable, just
$24 but the lady quoted me a price of $120.00 to ship it.
I then called Wicks. They wanted somewhere around $50 for the same piece
of plywood, but this time the lady on the phone said "I can't tell you
about shipping, the guys downstairs to that.."
Is this reasonable, sales (at Wicks) not knowing what the left hand is
doing and AS&S getting $120 for shipping a thin piece of 48 inch by 48
inch plywood a couple of states away?
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING |
Airborne Express is the cheapest when it comes to this stuff... and they'll deliver
it to your house. That's how my big 4x8 sheets of ply came and it was reasonably
priced
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 1:50 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING
The problem is that when you get big pieces like that (beyond the sizes UPS can
ship), it has to go by truck and that gets expensive quickly. I tried to have
all my big stuff (spars, longerons, plywood sheets) shipped at once so I only
had to eat such a cost once. Actually, I did do it twice - I got my spars
from Wicks and my longerons and plywood from ASS a couple of years later. As
I recall it was about $100 each time for shipping - and that was just to the
trucking companiy's terminal. I still had to manage to get the stuff from the
trucking company to my house.
Jack Phillips
Finishing the structural repairs to NX899JP this weekend, then on to fabric repairs
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 3:24 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING
I called AS&S early this morning thinking I would order some 1/16th inch thick
plywood, 48 inches by 48 inches. The plywood was reasonable, just $24 but the
lady quoted me a price of $120.00 to ship it.
I then called Wicks. They wanted somewhere around $50 for the same piece of plywood,
but this time the lady on the phone said "I can't tell you about shipping,
the guys downstairs to that.."
Is this reasonable, sales (at Wicks) not knowing what the left hand is doing
and AS&S getting $120 for shipping a thin piece of 48 inch by 48 inch plywood
a couple of states away?
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING |
S.B.
You wrote it like AS&S has a shipping company. They are just passing along the
rates from the shipping people.
Due to the size it's probably going by truck.
When I was doing my leading edge, they were nice enough to rip it into 4 pieces
12' X 96" which is leagel UPS size.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 3:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING
and AS&S getting $120 for shipping a thin piece of
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING |
I got my plywood (1 4x8 sheet of 1/4" BS1088 and 3 sheets of 1/8" 4x8 BS1088 Okoume)
from Noah's Marine for about $300 and that included freight (which was
about $100 as I recall)
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 1:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING
I called AS&S early this morning thinking I would order some 1/16th inch thick
plywood, 48 inches by 48 inches. The plywood was reasonable, just $24 but the
lady quoted me a price of $120.00 to ship it.
I then called Wicks. They wanted somewhere around $50 for the same piece of plywood,
but this time the lady on the phone said "I can't tell you about shipping,
the guys downstairs to that.."
Is this reasonable, sales (at Wicks) not knowing what the left hand is doing
and AS&S getting $120 for shipping a thin piece of 48 inch by 48 inch plywood
a couple of states away?
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING |
FYI on shipping light stuff -
When I worked for Fedex, shipping cost rate was based on package weight.
But there was also an internal calculation they did called 'dimensional
weight', which is what they would end up charging if you shipped a large
box of air. I don't remember the calculations, but the net result was to
generate a 'weight' based on dimensions for oversized packages. I don't
remember when they applied it versus just the normal package weight.
Jim Ash
>
>
>Sterling--- I went to UPS and it varied for a 50"x50"x2" 5 lb. package
>from 110 to 150 $$$$$$ !!!!
>
>Try the FedEx ground web site. Both of these sites have calculators to
>see how much things cost to ship------I certainly don't recall it being
>sooeee outrageous !
>
>Mike
>
>http://www.ups.com/
>
>
>http://www.fedex.com/us/services/us/ground.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING |
I get all my ply from Alpha Aviation in Greenville (about a 30 minute drive East
(sort of) from Dallas).....same price as AS&S, only costs driving out to see
Russ and is a LOT more fun to deal with (he's a really nice guy)......
Or how about I "ship" it to Plano for $100 (that's a $40 savings!!!) and you "stop
by" and pick it up???? Isn't that a win-win?????
jm
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 2:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING
I called AS&S early this morning thinking I would order some 1/16th inch thick
plywood, 48 inches by 48 inches. The plywood was reasonable, just $24 but the
lady quoted me a price of $120.00 to ship it.
I then called Wicks. They wanted somewhere around $50 for the same piece of plywood,
but this time the lady on the phone said "I can't tell you about shipping,
the guys downstairs to that.."
Is this reasonable, sales (at Wicks) not knowing what the left hand is doing
and AS&S getting $120 for shipping a thin piece of 48 inch by 48 inch plywood
a couple of states away?
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING |
Problem solved!
I'm heading to Alpha Aviation in Greenville. Long drive from Central Texas,
but worth the trip to see this place.
Jim. Do I drop off a taco and Corona on the way, or FedEx it to Plano?
Thanks for the tip.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAsAhQKoFnlqgqD5i+i17eeRql5/3g4kwIUX2SPUuxbWcxYLReo+aBlUIXyCzs=
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
....."the supplier is passing the shipping cost along to you...." True,
but I guarantee the shipping is the cheapest part of "shipping and
handling" I recently bought a small item with $8 S&H only to find
postage was just $1.25. The important thing is to do a lot of figuring
and buy all of your ply at once. Also perhaps order extra 1/4 sheet so
so. You will use it. Leon Stefan in Ks. Building his Peit from his
meager UPS wage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING |
Drop it off on the way....and pick up those welding flanges....
I typically call Russ first (903.455.3113) just to make sure....
JM
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING
Problem solved!
I'm heading to Alpha Aviation in Greenville. Long drive from Central Texas, but
worth the trip to see this place.
Jim. Do I drop off a taco and Corona on the way, or FedEx it to Plano?
Thanks for the tip.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING |
I dunno about that.... have you checked what shipping for a taco and a beer bottle
would cost?? ;)
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING
Problem solved!
I'm heading to Alpha Aviation in Greenville. Long drive from Central Texas, but
worth the trip to see this place.
Jim. Do I drop off a taco and Corona on the way, or FedEx it to Plano?
Thanks for the tip.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N321TX(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING |
I guess an appology is due to AS&S. My mindset on the shipping issue was
probably from my buying things on Ebay where some (not all) vendors charge $30
to
send something and when it arrives in the mail, the postage was $6.
I'm off to Alpha Aviation Supply Company in Greenville, TX next week for my
plywood needs.
AS&S had the best price for the actual purchase of the plywood I am in need
of, BTW.
S.B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jake Crause" <admin(at)homebuiltairplanes.com> |
| Subject: | Upstate NY / Cold Conditions |
Hey folks,
Anyone on the list building a Piet in Upstate NY? I just moved to
Croghan (near Watertown) and am setting up shop to start building very
soon. I'd love to meet with / converse with local builders if possible.
On another note; my detached rough lumber 3.5 car garage is not
insulated and as you can imagine it gets VERY cold in there. I kicked
the snow off my boots inside the threshold of the door on the day I
moved in and the same clumps of snow are right were I left them 2 weeks
later. What are some ways I can deal with the cold and still make
progress on the structure? I thought of building a thermostatically
controlled heat box made of Styrofoam insulation to set over the work
table and whatever part I'm working on while it cures. Not difficult to
build and I imagine much easier than trying to heat the entire space.
How long would the glue joints need to be maintained in the room temp
range before they can be allowed to be returned to the sub-zero temps?
Is it a bad Idea to let finished parts of the structure be exposed to
such temps? FYI right now my plans are to use either T-88 or the West
system. Is there a better glue for these cold conditions? Thanks in
advance!
Jake Crause
www.homebuiltairplanes.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W Meier <mwmp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING |
Regarding the shipping of plywood, I have run into many problems with
shipping. I have shipped plywood with fedex, airborne, ups and a number
of truck lines. anywhere from a few sheets of 1/8" to 20,000 lbs.
When shipping by truck, you are paying for the labor at the dock( to a
point) . It doesn't seem to matter much whether you ship 20 to 200
lbs, the price doesn't change all that much. When shipping full size
sheets via the overnight operations, my loss ratio was as high as 50
% The problem there was how to package light weight ( they DO charge
by the pound) to prevent bending the panel in half. Lately, UPS has
been accepting larger packages...I just shipped a sheet of 3/4" teak ply
that I cut in half lengthwise so the package was 24"x 96" x 3" thick.
The cost of shipping was $105 including insurance. It was classified as
an oversize 3 package and was charged at a 90 lb rate, even though it
only weighed 70lb. If anyone on the Piet list needs plywood shipped,
let me know via PM or phone, not over the list. I will cut panels to
rough size for you to save on shipping.
Cheers
Wayne
Midwest Marine Plywood
651-882-9704
>From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING
>
>I guess an appology is due to AS&S. My mindset on the shipping issue was
>probably from my buying things on Ebay where some (not all) vendors charge $30
>to
>send something and when it arrives in the mail, the postage was $6.
>
>I'm off to Alpha Aviation Supply Company in Greenville, TX next week for my
>plywood needs.
>
>AS&S had the best price for the actual purchase of the plywood I am in need
>of, BTW.
>
>S.B.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Excellent Pietenpol article.... |
on eBay....
This is about 10 pages of some of the best Pietenpol info available.....
It's an article by Joe Christy called: "The Pasture Pilot's Pride and Joy"
I got a copy of it about a year ago or I wouldn't be tellin' you guys about it!!!
:-)
It's great.
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item6948497168&ssPageNameADME:B:SS:US:1>
Jim Markle
Plano, TX
214.505.6101
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Excellent Pietenpol article.... |
Ok, the link fails (why do I bother????)
If you're interested, go to eBay and look up item #6948497168
Jim Markle
Plano, TX
214.505.6101
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Excellent Pietenpol article....
on eBay....
This is about 10 pages of some of the best Pietenpol info available.....
It's an article by Joe Christy called: "The Pasture Pilot's Pride and Joy"
I got a copy of it about a year ago or I wouldn't be tellin' you guys about it!!!
:-)
It's great.
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item6948497168&ssPageNameADME:B:SS:US:1>
Jim Markle
Plano, TX
214.505.6101
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Testing a rib |
| From: | "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu> |
Norm,
I recently finished a set of ribs, using T-88, and didn't encounter your
problem. I measured the T-88 using two children's medicine-measuring
syringes I got at CVS. Did the last because I had had one bad curing
experience using the "equal length beads on the paper plate" method, in
which it took about a week rather than 24 hours for the tackiness in one
rib to go away. My sequence was a) install and glue ribs and braces in
the jig, b) glue gussets on one side, c) staple gussets in place, d)
pull out assembly, inspect for squeeze-out on all joints, turn jig
upside down and place rib on back of jig and glue gussets to other side,
e) staple gussets on other side, f) finish by inspecting for squeeze-out
and labelling the date on the rib and the test pieces. I applied glue
to both surfaces always, because early on it looked like that seemed to
ensure good squeeze-out. At first I placed a thin plastic strip between
the prongs of the staple when stapling, then pulled it out after driving
the staple; theory being that that would allow for more T-88 in the
joint. However, I found that that seemed to actually interfere with
good squeeze-out, so I quit doing it, used more pressure on the standard
1/4" staples, and still had satisfactory breaking results with all of
the test joints (one for each little batch of glue which amounts to 2
per regular rib, 3 on end ribs).
HAVING SAID THAT, no one but me has inspected the ribs, which haven't
been assembled into a wing, which has never flown. Take it for what
it's worth. It's just that Resorcinol seems like a huge pain in the
butt, kind of like using nails rather than staples, and the staples
seemed to hold the rib together even during the 30 to 45 minutes when
they were only on one side.
Mark Hodgson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
Sounds like a good system Norm. You do a "test" with each rib? Is that
something the feds want?
Jack Textor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions |
Jake
The answer to that question has a direct relationship to the tolerance level of
the wife. Winter is a great time for making wing ribs or the tail feathers.
You can make the jig for either and set it up on a dining room table or a washing
machine while working and prop it up in the corner when not working. Winter
is also good for making controll horns and other steel parts. T-88 will cure
at 50 deg. so you can work in the basement also. Also, check out the local
EAA chapter, they may let you set up a work area in the chapter hangar.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jake Crause
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 12:38 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions
Hey folks,
Anyone on the list building a Piet in Upstate NY? I just moved to Croghan (near
Watertown) and am setting up shop to start building very soon. I'd love to
meet with / converse with local builders if possible.
On another note; my detached rough lumber 3.5 car garage is not insulated and
as you can imagine it gets VERY cold in there. I kicked the snow off my boots
inside the threshold of the door on the day I moved in and the same clumps of
snow are right were I left them 2 weeks later. What are some ways I can deal
with the cold and still make progress on the structure? I thought of building
a thermostatically controlled heat box made of Styrofoam insulation to set
over the work table and whatever part I'm working on while it cures. Not difficult
to build and I imagine much easier than trying to heat the entire space.
How long would the glue joints need to be maintained in the room temp range
before they can be allowed to be returned to the sub-zero temps? Is it a bad
Idea to let finished parts of the structure be exposed to such temps? FYI right
now my plans are to use either T-88 or the West system. Is there a better
glue for these cold conditions? Thanks in advance!
Jake Crause
www.homebuiltairplanes.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions |
Jake-- don't know if you are near Brockport but Tom Bowdler is a nice guy
(dentist by profession) who owns an 0-200 Canadian
built Piet and is pretty close to finishing another. There are also TWO
guys who have Ford powered Piets near there too---a
father-in-law, son-in-law combination. I can't recall their names
anymore but they came thru Ohio in 1998 or 99 and after
we had flown a three ship for a while towards Indiana I pulled away from
them and heard later that the one lost his prop and
flipped in a bean field (he and his son were okay) and the father-in-law
landed nearby safely. Last I heard the damaged Piet
was either flying or close to flying again.
Mike C.
>Hey folks,
>
>
>Anyone on the list building a Piet in Upstate NY? I just moved to Croghan
>(near Watertown) and am setting up shop to start building very soon. I d
>love to meet with / converse with local builders if possible.
>
>
>On another note; my detached rough lumber 3.5 car garage is not insulated
>and as you can imagine it gets VERY cold in there. I kicked the snow off
>my boots inside the threshold of the door on the day I moved in and the
>same clumps of snow are right were I left them 2 weeks later. What are
>some ways I can deal with the cold and still make progress on the
>structure? I thought of building a thermostatically controlled heat box
>made of Styrofoam insulation to set over the work table and whatever part
>I m working on while it cures. Not difficult to build and I imagine much
>easier than trying to heat the entire space. How long would the glue
>joints need to be maintained in the room temp range before they can be
>allowed to be returned to the sub-zero temps? Is it a bad Idea to let
>finished parts of the structure be exposed to such temps? FYI right now
>my plans are to use either T-88 or the West system. Is there a better
>glue for these cold conditions? Thanks in advance!
>
>
>Jake Crause
>
>www.homebuiltairplanes.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions |
Jake
I am in cambridge about 1 hour n of albany, but the real expert is Ed Snyder
hes maybe 1/2 hour n of albany, in Clifton Park. He has a for sale ad in the
current newsletter
Henry Williams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Testing a rib |
Norm, these are all good techniques, but I found that
the old fashioned way was the best way for me. I
simply mitered in my caps and diagonals, guled (T-88)
the joints. Layed a gussett over a joint and marked
around it, spread on a good thick layer of glue,
nailed the gussett on with one nail (3/8", 20 guage
A/C) in each diagonal and usually two in each cap.
Just as soon as I had all the gussetts on, I pulled
(gently) the rib out of the jig and layed it on a
sheet of wax paper on the work bench and did the back
gussetts the same way as I did the first side. I like
the nailing, it is quick and easy and doesn't add
enough weight to even be concerened about. I could
build two ribs easily in an evening after work. I
have had my ribs inspected by several tech inspecters
and they all approved them. I even cut all my caps
out of spruce I bought at the local lumber yard, just
like the old days. Hope this helps.
Doc
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jimmy Courtney <jbciii5656(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plans ordering trouble |
Dan,
I bought my plans just over a year ago. Here is the public information that I had
acquired and used to contact Mr. Pietenpol. I hope that this information is
of use to you.
Donald Pietenpol
1604 Meadow Circle S.E.
Rochester, MN 55904
Home Number (507) 289-2436
Home Fax: (507) 289-1279
Happy winds!!!!
Jim Courtney
jbciii5656(at)yahoo.com
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com> |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
--- MIME Errors ---
A message with no text/plain section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using plaintext formatting.
NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the
message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus
WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be
informed of the potential problem with their system as soon
as possible.
--- MIME Errors ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jake Crause" <admin(at)homebuiltairplanes.com> |
| Subject: | Upstate NY / Cold Conditions |
Dick: Thanks for the reply. I have given some thought to building the
ribs in the house because it would be very convenient to do so.
However, the reason I'm holding off on building the ribs is kind of a
strange one. I know that being an Army Helicopter Pilot I will be
deployed to the Middle East very soon. Probably within a year or so.
Because of this I have been trying to come up with ways to maintain
progress on the aircraft even though I'll be out of the country. One
way to do that will be to become the first Pietenpol builder (I assume)
to finish all of the wing ribs and metal fittings for the aircraft while
deployed to a war zone. I'll definitely spend some money in shipping
the completed ribs back, but it would give me something to enjoy and
distress with. Don't laugh, having deployed numerous times, I really
think it can be done :D.
Mike: Brockport is quite a hike but not an unrealistic day trip.
Thanks for the tip. **Mr. Bowdler, are you on the list?**
Henry: Cambridge is a bit of hike as well but, if you don't mind, I'd
love to swing over and say hello. How far along are you?
Does anyone know the affects of storing completed parts in very cold
temps will have on the integrity of the wood and glue? Will the
moisture freeze and damage the fibers somehow? Thanks.
Jake
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions |
Jake,
Wooden airplanes are stored in unheated hangars everywhere.
I've never heard of a problem.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis (my hangar is unheated.....)
----- Original Message -----
From: Jake Crause
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:57 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions
Does anyone know the affects of storing completed parts in very cold temps
will have on the integrity of the wood and glue? Will the moisture freeze and
damage the fibers somehow? Thanks.
Jake
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions |
Jake,
Wooden airplanes were flying to the north and south
poles during the late 20's and 30's and, other than
freeze their pilots and passengers, held up very well.
Sometimes the engines were a little cranky though.
Wood is one of the best materials to build airplanes
out of. It is durable, strong for it's weight and
doesn't suffer from fatigue like metal does. You will
find a way to work on your plane in spite of the cold
and some have fun.
Doc (an "Old, Bold pilot...who is still alive :)
--- gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com wrote:
> Jake,
> Wooden airplanes are stored in unheated hangars
> everywhere.
> I've never heard of a problem.
>
> Greg Cardinal
> Minneapolis (my hangar is unheated.....)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jake Crause
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:57 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Upstate NY / Cold
> Conditions
>
> Does anyone know the affects of storing
> completed parts in very cold temps will have on the
> integrity of the wood and glue? Will the moisture
> freeze and damage the fibers somehow? Thanks.
>
>
>
> Jake
>
__________________________________
http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions |
Jake:
More power to you as to being deployed and building at the same time. I'm on my
way to Kuwait to fly the C-12 there so if you are passing through stop by ops
and say Hi. I'm trying to finish a project someone else started. But that will
have to wait a few months.
Chet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cabane struts |
Jeff
I have been pondering the same question for months. Finally got a
chance to talk to my TA about it (who is an A&P and competition Pitts
builder and pilot), and he approved the use of the Carlson aluminum
struts with the solid aluminum inserts. (Just like DJ Vegh has
documented on his excellent website).
http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html
I am using the smaller size struts for the cabanes and they have 3/4 x
1" solid inserts which will fit into these so you can use 1/4" bolts
and still be 2 diameters from the edges where the ends attach.
Will use the large ones for the wing struts with 1 x 1" inserts.
> Hi guys, what is the most common size of cabane struts and what different
> choices are there?
>
> Jeff in Texas
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Cutting and grinding aluminum |
Guys
What are the best tools to use to cut and grind/shape aluminum struts?
I have been using an angle grinder with an .040 blade to cut all my
4130 tubing (which works great).
Thanks
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting and grinding aluminum |
a bandsaw cuts aluminum struts just fine. for grinding I use my 12" bench
disc sander or an angle grinder. be careful though.... aluminum is VERY
efficient and heat transfer. it'll get real hot real quick when grinding on
it.
DJ Vegh
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cutting and grinding aluminum
>
> Guys
>
> What are the best tools to use to cut and grind/shape aluminum struts?
> I have been using an angle grinder with an .040 blade to cut all my
> 4130 tubing (which works great).
>
> Thanks
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
Pieters: I am looking to trade 3 clockwise tachs for 1 counterclockwise
tach. Or will buy your counterclockwise tach. Mine are used tachs but think
they should work.
Ken Conrad in sunny Iowa 563 285 4073
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
You CAN change the rotation of a tach by adding a right angle drive, if that's
the SNAFU
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 2:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tachs
Pieters: I am looking to trade 3 clockwise tachs for 1 counterclockwise tach.
Or will buy your counterclockwise tach. Mine are used tachs but think they
should work.
Ken Conrad in sunny Iowa 563 285 4073
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-brake fluid |
Pieters, What is the best brake fluid to use. The aircraft red stuff or
the silicone that is out now. I am using aircraft parts that are now empty.
Ken again in not so warm Iowa but good for Feb.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions |
Jake
I am on LI for a bit, I wont get up to Cambridge probably till the end of
March, If that works for you I will call Ed and its only another hour to see
him. My body is nearly done, working on controls. ribs done , tail done( on LI
on the winter).
Many Pieters in the past have made the observation, that some of the metal
tabs
need to be made 1/4 inch longer or so, If you try to make these ahead of
time ( rather then fitting them on the job ) it would be nice to know which
brackets and how much-- I'm not there yet so cant help with this
Henry Williams ( L I 631 423 1813, Cambridge 518 677 5485 ) ( in
Cambridge no internet )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FTLovley(at)aol.com |
Be carefull...not ALL right angle drives change the rotation.
Forrest Lovley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Another building level reached |
christinedigsjazz(at)shaw.ca, wayfollower(at)cox.net, T_FIN(at)Compuserve.com,
glevy1(at)cox.net, IFlyTigers(at)aol.com, LCJELKS(at)aol.com, JimNikls(at)aol.com
Pieters and friends,
Ole Corky hasn't been too idle these winter months. Today I completed
assembley of the major parts following a major overhaul of the Continental A-65
engine which will power Repiet NX311CC sometime in 05. An engine mechanic EARNS
every nickel he charges.
Corky and Isabelle livin the good life in warm Louisiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jake Crause" <admin(at)homebuiltairplanes.com> |
| Subject: | Upstate NY / Cold Conditions |
My landlord came over today and we came up with a plan to insulate the
garage and set up an oil furnace. He already has the furnace and he
will pay for all the materials.
Henry: Thanks for the invite. You can be sure I will take you up on
it. Expect an email in early April :).
Chet: It's good to know there are other Army Aviators out there
building. I've run into a couple on my website at
www.homebuiltairplanes.com but I'm surprised to find that most people
who fly for the Army don't seem to have a big interest in recreational
flying, let alone building. Best of luck on your trip and be safe!
DOC and Greg: Thanks for the input. I guess it makes sense that wooden
airplanes are subjected to the same climates as other aircraft and fair
just as well. I'm going to stop worrying about it too much.
Thanks for your help. Time to get building!
Jake
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alexms1(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-brake fluid |
Ken,
Use aircraft grade brake fluid in aircraft brakes. Do NOT use automotive brake
fluid. I buy mine from A.C.S.& S.C.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
Pieters, What is the best brake fluid to use. The aircraft red stuff or the silicone
that is out now. I am using aircraft parts that are now empty. Ken
again in not so warm Iowa but good for Feb.
Ken,
Use aircraft grade brake fluid in aircraft brakes. Do NOT use automotive
brake fluid. I buy mine from A.C.S. S.C.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
Pieters, What is the best brake fluid to use. The aircraft red
stuff or the silicone that is out now. I am using aircraft
parts that are now empty. Ken again in not so warm Iowa but good for
Feb.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "NEMuzzy" <list01(at)gourmetdamage.com> |
Jack-
I will test a couple ribs, basically the ones that don't match up with the
others, or that I don't want to use for whatever reason.
The inspectors don't care about testing or anything like that. It doesn't
hurt anything, but they are really only interested in making sure that you
meet the minimum requirements, that the workmanship looks adequate, and that
the paperwork is correct. This is my 2nd plane, so I have been thorugh the
inspection process once (a couple times if you count helping others with
their inspections). So long as the Des Moines FSDO is doing it, no big
deal. Just make sure the plane is safe.
Put 1.3 hours on the Cozy this afternoon. Seems strange to be building a
plane that tops out at about the same speed where my first plane rotates.
How far along are you? Des Moines, right? I have a source for wire wheels
here that looks interesting. They make their own hobs and lace them up with
moped rims. I don't know if the rims are heavy enough or not, but my guess
is that they will probably work fine.
-Norm
Sounds like a good system Norm. You do a "test" with each rib? Is that
something the feds want?
Jack Textor
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-brake fluid |
In a message dated 2/26/05 4:35:49 PM Central Standard Time,
Wizzard187(at)aol.com writes:
<< Pieters, What is the best brake fluid to use. The aircraft red stuff or
the silicone that is out now. I am using aircraft parts that are now
empty.
Ken again in not so warm Iowa but good for Feb. >>
I use 5606 (the red stuff).
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
p.s. I flew today for the first time in months !! It was 55 with winds
180 @ 15 to 20. Stayed in the 'condensed' pattern and shot a bunch of landings.
Sure feels great to get back in the air.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
Pieters. I have a right angle that does not change the direction. Lucky I
didn't buy it , it was in some junk I acquried. Boy is it heavy. Ken
Conrad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-brake fluid |
On an ole low and slow Piete I'm not sure if it makes a lot of difference
between clear silicone or red, but I can tell you from real experience that
when you don't use the red stuff in a fast taxi or landing plane, you're in
for a real sad surprise. During high speed ground testing of controls and
brakes on my Cozy IV, I had the plane to 80 knts and return to stopped on a
5200' runway. The disc brakes put out a lot of heat when you're stopping a
1000 lb airplane on 1/2 of the runway. I managed to "boil-out" the clear
autostore bought brake fluid from the disc brake calipers after the second
run, ergo the brake failed with multiple boiling bubbles in the line.
Luckily got stopped on the grass. The red aircraft grade brake fluid is
higher in viscosity and apparently higher in temp boiling point. Replaced
the clear fluid with aircraft red, haven't boil-out the fluid since.
Good luck, ole Quasi-Piete N-1033B (which just this week got it's niffty
0-235 cranking hope to have flying next month) has motorcycle brake handles
and go-cart sized compression brakes, think they'll hold ok.
Gordon Bowen
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:34:50 EST
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-brake fluid
Pieters, What is the best brake fluid to use. The aircraft red stuff or
the silicone that is out now. I am using aircraft parts that are now
empty.
Ken again in not so warm Iowa but good for Feb.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Another building level reached |
Sure looks purty, Corky
Jack
Finishing the last of the structural repairs to NX899JP today - then on to
fabric work
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
christinedigsjazz(at)shaw.ca; wayfollower(at)cox.net; T_FIN(at)Compuserve.com;
glevy1(at)cox.net; IFlyTigers(at)aol.com; LCJELKS(at)aol.com; JimNikls(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another building level reached
Pieters and friends,
Ole Corky hasn't been too idle these winter months. Today I completed
assembley of the major parts following a major overhaul of the Continental
A-65 engine which will power Repiet NX311CC sometime in 05. An engine
mechanic EARNS every nickel he charges.
Corky and Isabelle livin the good life in warm Louisiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary W Meadows <garymead(at)swbell.net> |
Hey guys,
It's been a while since I posted, but I just wanted to exit lurking mode and chime
in on my highly unscientific version of rib-testing. I made up a test rib,
and let it cure for a few days. Next, I propped the rib up between the workbench
and my step stool. I then lifted myself up on my hands holding onto the bench
and ladder and placed one foot onto the rib. I gradually let the rib take
my weight until I had probably 70 - 80% of my weight on that rib!! Now, I'm about
230 on the hoof, so I figure that rib was holding up a ballpark of between
160 to 185 pounds!!! I was amazed at how strong those things are!! Anyway, I
then did the math - 30 ribs * 170# and came up with around 5000# - good enough
for me!! Even if I guessed way wrong, that rib was still holding an incredible
amount of weight when compared to how much IT weighs. Kinda like an ant!!
To do a more accurate test, I guess I could have place the rib on a board on a
bathroom scale, but all it was for was to bolster my confidence in the rib design,
material and my own building technique and it worked!!!
By the way, I made one rib per night and let the one side cure, then the next
day, glued on the opposite side gussetts and made a new on in the jig. It was
slow, but I was working tail feathers too, so it was fine. I also had trouble
with the ribs not holding their shape out of the jig. I suspect my capstrip bending
wasn't thourough enough.
Now, I'll go back into stealth mode and get back to work, waiting to get home
and into the garage to get back to work on the Piet!!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andimaxd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Throttle quadrant plans |
Hello to all in the group:
Does anyone have plans for a throttle quadrant like these? I don't
want/need anything fancy. I can build one from scratch from these pictures, but,
I
don't know how long to make the "throw & pivot points". These two examples
seem to be very different in their geometry. I don't know what would be best
with a continental 75 engine/carburetor.
This is just a shot in the dark, but I thought I would ask anyhow.
Thanks in advance, and happy building/flying,
Max Davis
Arlington, TX.
NX101XW (We now have an official N number, very exciting!)
(http://mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=DSCF0007a.JPG&PhotoID=2291)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle quadrant plans |
Max,
I remember a comment by my DAR. He said to make the throw on the quad larger
than the needed movement of the throttle arm.
Corky who can't remember too much lately
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
Good to see you back on the list Gary...It has been a long time..I made my
ribs the same way, let the top gussets cure overnight then pulled the rib
out of the jig and put the gussetts on the flip side and do the first side
of a new rib each day. They came out great and there is no detectable
difference between any of them.I lined my rib jig with plastic grocery bags
cut down each side..They protected the rib jig and most of the plastic would
peel off the T-88..the rest I just sanded off .. I would lay up a rib then
go work on some other part of my Piet...If you're patient it works
great...Ed G.
>From: Gary W Meadows <garymead(at)swbell.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib-testing
>Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 06:41:56 -0800 (PST)
>
>Hey guys,
>
> It's been a while since I posted, but I just wanted to exit lurking mode
>and chime in on my highly unscientific version of rib-testing. I made up a
>test rib, and let it cure for a few days. Next, I propped the rib up
>between the workbench and my step stool. I then lifted myself up on my
>hands holding onto the bench and ladder and placed one foot onto the rib. I
>gradually let the rib take my weight until I had probably 70 - 80% of my
>weight on that rib!! Now, I'm about 230 on the hoof, so I figure that rib
>was holding up a ballpark of between 160 to 185 pounds!!! I was amazed at
>how strong those things are!! Anyway, I then did the math - 30 ribs * 170#
>and came up with around 5000# - good enough for me!! Even if I guessed way
>wrong, that rib was still holding an incredible amount of weight when
>compared to how much IT weighs. Kinda like an ant!!
>
> To do a more accurate test, I guess I could have place the rib on a board
>on a bathroom scale, but all it was for was to bolster my confidence in the
>rib design, material and my own building technique and it worked!!!
>
> By the way, I made one rib per night and let the one side cure, then the
>next day, glued on the opposite side gussetts and made a new on in the jig.
>It was slow, but I was working tail feathers too, so it was fine. I also
>had trouble with the ribs not holding their shape out of the jig. I suspect
>my capstrip bending wasn't thourough enough.
>
> Now, I'll go back into stealth mode and get back to work, waiting to get
>home and into the garage to get back to work on the Piet!!
>
> Gary Meadows
> Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Throttle quadrant plans |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
I=A1=AFll look tonight and thry to make some measurements off mine. I have an
A65 Continental.
It=A1=AFs basic geometry to design your own. You need to know the circmferential
distance you need the cable to provide at the carburetor. Measure the distance
from the pivot point of the thrrottle arm on the carb to the point where
your bugnut will be attached (call this dimentions =A1=B0r=A1=B1 for radius.
Now measure the number of degrees the throttle arm needs to move to go from idle
stop to full throttle (use your kid=A1=AFs elementary school protracter).
Now divide this number (it=A1=AFll be somewhere around 45 =A2=AA) by 57.30 to
convert it to radians (don=A1=AFt worry about what that means, just do it) and
multiply that number by what you got for =A1=B0r=A1=B1 above. This is the linear
distance the throttle cable needs to provide.
Now for the cockpit end. Your throttle quadrant needs to produce this amount of
linear travel, plus a little bit more, as Corky so wisely suggested. The reason
for this is to make the stops at the carburetor, not in your quadrant. Otherwise
you will not be able to quite get full throttle (increases pucker factor
on takeoff) or quite get down to idle (which can cause some high speed taxiing,
especially downhill and downwind).
Here you=A1=AFve got a little discretion. I suggest you go sit in some other airplanes
and see how they feel, then measure their quadrants. I copied mine from
a J-3 Cub, because I used to own one and thought its throttle felt fine.
You=A1=AFve got two paraemters you can play with - the radius (length) of your
throttle lever, and its throw, or angular sweep. The longer the radius, the
less angle it needs to sweep through to get the same cable movement. The formula
is Radius x Angle (in degrees, divided by 57.30 to convert to radians) linear
cable movement, which should be maybe =A8=F9=A1=B1 more than the cable movement
required by the carburetor. As to how long to make your throttle quadrant
lever, that is a matter of personal preference. Obviously, it needs to be
at least as long as the Radius you just determined, but how much longer is up
to you.
One other thing to watch out for - your cable needs to be solidly attached to structure
near the attach points for both the quadrant and the carburetor. Otherwise,
some of your quadrant movement will just go into bending the entire cable,
housing and all.
Good luck,
Jack
Still working to repair NX899JP in time to fly it to Brodhead this summer
-----Original Message-----
Does anyone have plans for a throttle quadrant like these? I don't want/need anything
fancy. I can build one from scratch from these pictures, but, I don't
know how long to make the "throw & pivot points". These two examples seem to
be very different in their geometry. I don't know what would be best with a
continental 75 engine/carburetor.
This is just a shot in the dark, but I thought I would ask anyhow.
Thanks in advance, and happy building/flying,
Max Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Throttle quadrant plans |
I obviously didn't make the quadrant that's on 41CC (Corky did), but I've
made others. I found that if I played around at the workbench with some
junk materials like plywood and scrap metal to make a mock-up, it's easier
and more satisfying to work out the stroke, travel, and proportions of the
lever than if you sat down and worked out the trigonometry or drew it up in
CAD. If you don't like the throw or travel, you just punch a new pivot
point and try that, or cut out a longer handle and try that. Grab whatever
is handy and start experimenting.
I have a box of miscellaneous hardware that I've picked up from jobsites and
parking lots over many years, and I'm sure all of you do too- so I work out
of that and my scrap bin to do test fits of things, then fabricate the final
item using "real" stuff.
We don't need no stinkin' plans (and I'm an engineer!!)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle quadrant plans |
Max
Hey man. I must apologize for not getting back to you about the throttle plans.
I have been covered up at work and home projects and barely get time to check
my email lately. excuses...excuses...
Lon built the throttle pictured for our pietenpol. It is straight from the Hatz
plans. I will try to scan it soon if I can get his plans from him. There are
some phenolic washers used for a friction adjustment. Anyway... keep after
me and I will get it for you.
Terry
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:fuel pressure |
Pieters: I have a J3 cub gas tank in the front of my piet with a 75 hp
cont engine and have been running the engine but it craps out when I add
throttle. The books say you should have 1/2 lbs of pressure (19 inches) of head.
I can't see how a j3 cub has ever had this much. With just two gal of gas I
have about 6 inches when sitting with the tail wheel down and my motor cycle
wheels on. I am going to put a 90 degree tube in my gas cap to get some
prop blast and wonder if this will do any good. I have had three different
carbs on and they all act the same.
Still looking for a counter clockwise tach. Has anyone used one of the
new electronic tach on a mag that they really like. Ken Conrad, Long Grove
Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | tenpol-List:fuel pressure |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> |
Hi Ken,
The J-3 had the tank sitting a little higher than a Piet does, in
relation to the carburetor. Still, you should be all right. Have you
measured the fuel flow by taking the fuel line off at the carburetor and
time running the fuel into a bucket? I don't know what an A75 burns,
probably a little over 4 gals per hour. You need at least 150% of that
available, so you should be getting at least 6 gals per hour, or a
gallon every ten minutes through your fuel system.
Before going to the trouble of putting the 90 degree tube on your fuel
cap, just try it with the fuel cap off - that will tell you if you have
a venting problem.
If it craps out immediately when you add throttle, it is not a fuel flow
problem because the float chamber (if full) will provide enough fuel for
at least 5 - 10 seconds of full throttle operation. Might be a mixture
problem. Do you know for sure you have the correct jet in the
carburetor? Do you know if the float level is set crrectly? This
critical (assuming you have a Stromberg).
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Wizzard187(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:fuel pressure
Pieters: I have a J3 cub gas tank in the front of my piet with a 75
hp cont engine and have been running the engine but it craps out when I
add throttle. The books say you should have 1/2 lbs of pressure (19
inches) of head. I can't see how a j3 cub has ever had this much. With
just two gal of gas I have about 6 inches when sitting with the tail
wheel down and my motor cycle wheels on. I am going to put a 90
degree tube in my gas cap to get some prop blast and wonder if this will
do any good. I have had three different carbs on and they all act the
same.
Still looking for a counter clockwise tach. Has anyone used one of
the new electronic tach on a mag that they really like. Ken Conrad,
Long Grove Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:fuel pressure |
Ken,
Sound like the problem I had when first setting up the idle mixture screw on my
Stromberg (assuming that's what you have.)
Since the carb doesn't have an accelerator pump . (65 year old equiptment) Had
to keep messing with the screw till I got way to the rich end of idling good.
Even now it may stumble if the throttle is pushed forward too fast.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:fuel pressure
Pieters: I have a J3 cub gas tank in the front of my piet with a 75 hp cont
engine and have been running the engine but it craps out when I add throttle.
The books say you should have 1/2 lbs of pressure (19 inches) of head. I can't
see how a j3 cub has ever had this much. With just two gal of gas I have
about 6 inches when sitting with the tail wheel down and my motor cycle wheels
on. I am going to put a 90 degree tube in my gas cap to get some prop blast
and wonder if this will do any good. I have had three different carbs on
and they all act the same.
Still looking for a counter clockwise tach. Has anyone used one of the new
electronic tach on a mag that they really like. Ken Conrad, Long Grove Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
My Piet's basic fuselage structure is finished and I'm writing to ask about
the firewall. What do most Pieters cover their firewall with, i.e. I assume
steel or aluminum? Do you put some of that fireproof fabric in between the metal
and the plywood firewall bulkhead? I'm building a Model A powered Piet so mine
also has the "shelf" area behind the engine...would appreciate any advice.
Many thanks!
Fred B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:fuel pressure |
Does it change when you raise the tail?
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:fuel pressure
Pieters: I have a J3 cub gas tank in the front of my piet with a 75 hp cont
engine and have been running the engine but it craps out when I add throttle.
The books say you should have 1/2 lbs of pressure (19 inches) of head. I can't
see how a j3 cub has ever had this much. With just two gal of gas I have
about 6 inches when sitting with the tail wheel down and my motor cycle wheels
on. I am going to put a 90 degree tube in my gas cap to get some prop blast
February 01, 2005 - March 01, 2005
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ei