Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-el

April 27, 2005 - May 23, 2005



      a ton. If the side panels had a simple piano hinge at the top so they could
      swing upwards (J-3 style) then there would be no need to worry about
      complicated, heavy sliding rails. A simple latch would suffice and you could
      likely even fly with the windows open. (The sliding fighter-style canopy
      setup on the Firebolt takes a year to build... just for the canopy part...
      it is nice, but that's kind of against the whole idea of a Pietenpol!)
      
      -Mike
      
      Mike Whaley    merlin@ov-10bronco.net
      Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
      http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Apr 27, 2005
Subject: DJ Vegh?
Has anybody heard from DJ in the last 10 days? I sent him an off-line e-mail more than a week ago and haven't heard back from him and he hasn't made a post in a long time. He last told me about going off on an adventure to an Arizona lake a couple of weeks ago and that is the last time I heard from him. Thanks, Sterling ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: DJ Vegh?
Date: Apr 27, 2005
I am alive and well. I did get your message and completely forgot about getting back with you. I was at Lake Havasu for the better part of last week. What a trip. Lots of beer, babes, and boats. Anyhow my GN-1 project has taken a back seat for the summer. I was really hoping to have her flying by the end of the year and that still may happen, but I'd need to really get busy come October. I want to finish this airplane soooo bad.... not cause I want to fly it, but cause I want to get it out of my garage!!!!! LOL All tail feathers are covered. Next on the list is to make a cowling and I have no idea how I'm going to do that. I was considering trailering the fuselage down to the airport and having Phoenix Composites make me a carbon fiber one. Sometimes it's easier to just pay the right people to do the work for you ya know. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 3:46 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: DJ Vegh? Has anybody heard from DJ in the last 10 days? I sent him an off-line e-mail more than a week ago and haven't heard back from him and he hasn't made a post in a long time. He last told me about going off on an adventure to an Arizona lake a couple of weeks ago and that is the last time I heard from him. Thanks, Sterling ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Apr 27, 2005
Subject: Re: DJ Vegh?
Man, I was worried you went of to Lake Powell in a float plane and ran out of gas at the far end of the lake with no Corona. Glad to hear you made it back to Mesa and a mess of us will be delighted to read about you AirCamper experiences whenst it flys. I've seen it in person (twice) in your driveway and I've been bragging about it for about a year now. (Varoom, varoom... those Corvairs sound so gooood.) Sterling ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Apr 27, 2005
Subject: Re: DJ Vegh?
I just read this original e-mail I sent. Wow, the typos. No, I haven't overdosed on Corona or Dos Equis or Guinness Stout... My right hand is recuperating from dog bites and it (as well as my brain) doesn't work too well. Plus, I've been spraying 2-4-D weed killer and MSMA here on the ranch, (when I should have been spraying Guiness Stout). By the way, I love the smell of 2-4-D in the morning, it reminds me of licorice (and brain damage).. Now if Chuck and DJ will just post some pictures of their adventures on the internet, it would keep a lonely rancher out of the weeds (and herbicide) and inside where it is safe. Sincerely, The Village Idiot ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
<010e01c54c78$d7cb7970$0100a8c0@Desktop>
Subject: Re: Lake Havasu
Date: Apr 29, 2005
> I would have LOVED to had a SuperCub on floats out there! I would have loved to had a high performance sailplane out there! Check out those standing lenticulars on photo DSC04037......egad, I must be getting old..... JM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Lake Havasu
Date: Apr 29, 2005
Uh... like - those were the ones we wanted to see. >From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lake Havasu >Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 22:03:54 -0700 > > >as requested some pics from the Havasu trip. > >I left off some of the really crazy/innappropriate ones..... the ones >involving drunken nakedness and drunken barfing. LOL > >www.imagedv.com/havasu > >I would have LOVED to had a SuperCub on floats out there! If I ever win >the lottery I'm going to buy a house on Havasu, a 35' tunnel hull >speedboat, and a Supercub or Husky amphib.... ohhhhhhh that would be the >life! > > >DJ > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Apr 29, 2005
Subject: Re: Lake Havasu
DJ hangs out with guys who drink LIGHT BEER? What happened to Guinness Stout? Real beer needs to be as dark as used motor oil, the type when you hold the bottle up to the sun, you can't see sunlight going through it, affording UV protection ... flavor and a serious depletion of your wallet. Oh, wait a minute... I recall Lake Havasu has an environmental ordinance that states only light beer is permitted because when someone upchucks Guinness (or other dark matter into the lake) it taints the pristine water and upsets the local Chamber of Commerce. Never mind... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: battery
Date: Apr 29, 2005
Aquestion for those fling with the Corvair eng. Does anyone use the Oddessy dry cell battey? If so, is the 680cca large enough? I would like to save the weight if possible ove the 925. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: battery
Date: Apr 29, 2005
I use this one http://www.gotbatteries.com/Productpage.asp?ProductNum35L105S3 under $30, weighs 11lb and is pretty small. Turns the Corvair over with ease. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 4:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: battery Aquestion for those fling with the Corvair eng. Does anyone use the Oddessy dry cell battey? If so, is the 680cca large enough? I would like to save the weight if possible ove the 925. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Making dihedral
Finally jumped in today and started the dihedral thing. When I first assembled the plane, after tightening everything , I wound up with a slight negitive dihedral. Decided to go with about 1 1/2 deg positive. walt evans ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 30, 2005
Subject: Re: Making dihedral
I think you will be pleased with the 1 1/2 positive. That is what I used. I sure like that tent hangar. Give me some info on that please. Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Apr 30, 2005
Subject: Re: Making dihedral
Walt: Good looking airplane. I wished I lived in a place where canvas/plastic covered hangers can survive. We typically record 50 MPH wind gusts around here. Last year had a 90 MPH blast (with hail) that blew out the windows in the house (but didn't phase my steel hanger). What kind of winds do you have where you are? I'm on the front porch here in Tornado Alley in Central Texas with no trees for any protection. Sterling Brooks 5TA6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Making dihedral
Date: Apr 30, 2005
Walt, Nice pics. I thought a Sawsall was the wood airplane builders best buddie? Looks like razor wire strung out along the back side of your "hanger". Must be a tough neighborhood. Nice work. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Cc: walter evans Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 12:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Making dihedral Finally jumped in today and started the dihedral thing. When I first assembled the plane, after tightening everything , I wound up with a slight negitive dihedral. Decided to go with about 1 1/2 deg positive. walt evans ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 30, 2005
Subject: Re: Making dihedral
In a message dated 4/30/05 6:37:07 P.M. Central Daylight Time, N321TX(at)wmconnect.com writes: Walt: Good looking airplane. I wished I lived in a place where canvas/plastic covered hangers can survive. We typically record 50 MPH wind gusts around here. Last year had a 90 MPH blast (with hail) that blew out the windows in the house (but didn't phase my steel hanger). What kind of winds do you have where you are? I'm on the front porch here in Tornado Alley in Central Texas with no trees for any protection. Sterling Brooks 5TA6 sterling didn't you have a couple of corvair engines you wanted to sell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Apr 30, 2005
Subject: Corvair engines & misc for sale
I have one complete Corvair (still intact) and two disassembled Corvair engines, one of which has the 100 HP heads. I know nothing about Corvairs, but at Brodhead last summer, I saw them fly, they sounded VERY GOOD and I was impressed. They ran so smooth, it was difficult to detect vibration as we have in the four cylinder engines. The 6 cylinder Corvair is impressive being so smooth running. I'm selling because I already have a pristine Continental A-80 engine for my airplane. My Corvair engines came with a project airplane that I acquired recently and I'd like to sell the entire lot, with spare parts, fan shrouds, and stuff that I don't even know what it is. I also have a Corvair motormount that a Corvair block was attached to and already mounted on the front of my Piet. Lastly, I has a set of very nice looking VDO gauges that were destined for the Corvair setup. I'm not in a position to box up all this stuff... Too many things to pack and I am without the use of my right hand for probably a couple of months. If anyone in interested, I'm happy to provide a price if you can pick it up in Central Texas. I'd rather not piecemeal this stuff out, everything goes at once. All of the above mentioned parts filled up the entire back end of my Silverado pickup when I brought the stuff home several months ago, so bring a pickup, big van or trailer... Sterling Brooks Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Apr 30, 2005
Subject: Re: Making dihedral
In a message dated 4/30/2005 8:02:18 PM Central Standard Time, TRichmo9(at)aol.com writes: > sterling didn't you have a couple of corvair engines you wanted to sell > > > I have one complete Corvair (still intact) and two disassembled Corvair engines, one of which has the 100 HP heads. I know nothing about Corvairs, but at Brodhead last summer, I saw them fly, they sounded VERY GOOD and I was impressed. Needless to say, these came with a project airplane that I acquired recently and I'd like to sell the entire lot, with spare parts, fan shrouds, and stuff that I don't even know what it is. I also have a Corvair motormount that a Corvair block was attached to and already mounted on the front of my Piet. Lastly, I has a set of very nice looking VDO gauges that were destined for the Corvair setup. I'm not in a position to box up all this stuff... Too many things to pack and I am without the use of my right hand for probably a couple of months. If anyone in interested, I'm happy to provide a price if you can pick it up in Central Texas. All of the above mentioned parts filled up the entire back end of my Silverado pickup when I brought the stuff home several months ago, so bring a pickup, big van or trailer... Sterling Brooks Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Making dihedral
<002801c54de2$2da06080$799870d1@defaultcomp> Gordon, Naw, that's a sticker bush that grows inside the hanger. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon Bowen To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Cc: walter evans Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 7:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Making dihedral Walt, Nice pics. I thought a Sawsall was the wood airplane builders best buddie? Looks like razor wire strung out along the back side of your "hanger". Must be a tough neighborhood. Nice work. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Cc: walter evans Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 12:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Making dihedral Finally jumped in today and started the dihedral thing. When I first assembled the plane, after tightening everything , I wound up with a slight negitive dihedral. Decided to go with about 1 1/2 deg positive. walt evans ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Making dihedral
Corky, It used to be Cover-it. Now I guess it changed hands. Mine fits nicely in a 30' wide by 20' deep. http://shelterworkz.com/prod_photos.php walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 5:49 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Making dihedral I think you will be pleased with the 1 1/2 positive. That is what I used. I sure like that tent hangar. Give me some info on that please. Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Date: May 01, 2005
Subject: Re: Corvair engines & misc for sale
In a message dated 4/30/05 9:56:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, N321TX(at)wmconnect.com writes: I have one complete Corvair (still intact) and two disassembled Corvair engines, one of which has the 100 HP heads. I know nothing about Corvairs, but at Brodhead last summer, I saw them fly, they sounded VERY GOOD and I was impressed. They ran so smooth, it was difficult to detect vibration as we have in the four cylinder engines. The 6 cylinder Corvair is impressive being so smooth running. I'm selling because I already have a pristine Continental A-80 engine for my airplane. My Corvair engines came with a project airplane that I acquired recently and I'd like to sell the entire lot, with spare parts, fan shrouds, and stuff that I don't even know what it is. I also have a Corvair motormount that a Corvair block was attached to and already mounted on the front of my Piet. Lastly, I has a set of very nice looking VDO gauges that were destined for the Corvair setup. I'm not in a position to box up all this stuff... Too many things to pack and I am without the use of my right hand for probably a couple of months. If anyone in interested, I'm happy to provide a price if you can pick it up in Central Texas. I'd rather not piecemeal this stuff out, everything goes at once. All of the above mentioned parts filled up the entire back end of my Silverado pickup when I brought the stuff home several months ago, so bring a pickup, big van or trailer... Sterling Brooks Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch sterling i am very interested and im in tulsa so im within driving range to pick them up so if you would email me the info we can work something out ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: May 01, 2005
Subject: Re: Corvair engines & misc for sale
I'm letting everything go for $350. This includes some books about Corvair engines that I haven't even unboxed yet, as well as the VDO gauges and motormount. I'm leaving for Houston and will be gone 5-1 to 5-5 and I'll be gone on a second trip 5-13 to 5-17. In between my trips, I'll try and take some pictures of the three engines, motormount, VDO Gauges and misc. parts to post of MyKitplane.com. For those who have e-mailed me off list and have expressed an interest in this stuff, it would work best for me if you can come down after 5-17. Also, if you are interested in seeing a couple of pictures that I have, please e-mail me at my high-speed address and I can send some pictures on 5-6. That address is sterling(at)pgrb.com Thanks, Sterling Brooks Knot-2-Shabby Airport 5TA6 Winters, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 01, 2005
Subject: In Flight Video
Sorry about the picture, but I though a lot of folks might find this interesting. It seems like I'm always doing something I really shouldn't do. I mounted my video camera to the side of the cockpit for some in flight video footage. A lot of thought went into this mount, however, it's quite distracting trying to manage the camera, and fly the plane. I flew with the camera yesterday, and it worked pretty well, and produced some interesting video, but I found a couple of things to watch out for. The directions for my camera said you can permanently damage the lens if you point it straight at the sun. When I was taxiing out, it pointed at the sun, so I covered up the lens with my hand, but then I couldn't work the throttle. I moved my hand to the throttle, and the camera went to some sort of auto shut down, and just showed about 10 minutes of blue screen. I tried it again, and the sun caused a black spot in the video in the upper left corner of the video. I thought I permanently damaged the lens, but I did a short test at home, and didn't see the spot, so hopefully the camera is not damaged...Whew !! I've now got some unexpected things to watch out for, that flight tests uncover. The mount that I made allows for use on either side of the cockpit, and I can adjust it to point down or up, and look forward or backward, out to the side, or even look at the instrument panel. All those directional adjustments have to be made on the ground. This camera has a seperate lens for still pictures, with 4.3 megapixles of resolution. Yesterday, I only tried with the camera on the right side, looking forward. I'm planning on doing a lot more in flight video. With the zoom lens, I'll be looking for swimming pools & bikini's !!! he he he... Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: kinda OT......Interesting video....
Date: May 01, 2005
Don't know if the DVD/VHS is even available or not (looks like it is, according to the web site) but this looks VERY interesting! http://www.therestorers.com/video/trailersmall.wmv Check out: http://www.therestorers.com/ Maybe I'm the last one to find out about this (as usual) but it looks pretty neat.... JM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: kinda OT......Interesting video....
Was that a Mike Cuy smoke fly-by about 2/3 the way thru??? walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 11:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: kinda OT......Interesting video.... Don't know if the DVD/VHS is even available or not (looks like it is, according to the web site) but this looks VERY interesting! http://www.therestorers.com/video/trailersmall.wmv Check out: http://www.therestorers.com/ Maybe I'm the last one to find out about this (as usual) but it looks pretty neat.... JM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2005
From: Derrick <mosnei2(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: In Flight Video
DNA: do not archive Its-Bogus: do not forward to list --- MIME Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting. NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be informed of the potential problem with their system as soon as possible. --- MIME Errors --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: In Flight Video
Date: May 01, 2005
Chuck You a couple of steps ahead of me here. I am working on a mount that will attach to the cabane strut. There are some low cost small video cameras ou on the market now. I will be doing the same this summer. If summer ever somes, that is. Dick N. snowing on MN today ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 11:14 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: In Flight Video Sorry about the picture, but I though a lot of folks might find this interesting. It seems like I'm always doing something I really shouldn't do. I mounted my video camera to the side of the cockpit for some in flight video footage. A lot of thought went into this mount, however, it's quite distracting trying to manage the camera, and fly the plane. I flew with the camera yesterday, and it worked pretty well, and produced some interesting video, but I found a couple of things to watch out for. The directions for my camera said you can permanently damage the lens if you point it straight at the sun. When I was taxiing out, it pointed at the sun, so I covered up the lens with my hand, but then I couldn't work the throttle. I moved my hand to the throttle, and the camera went to some sort of auto shut down, and just showed about 10 minutes of blue screen. I tried it again, and the sun caused a black spot in the video in the upper left corner of the video. I thought I permanently damaged the lens, but I did a short test at home, and didn't see the spot, so hopefully the camera is not damaged...Whew !! I've now got some unexpected things to watch out for, that flight tests uncover. The mount that I made allows for use on either side of the cockpit, and I can adjust it to point down or up, and look forward or backward, out to the side, or even look at the instrument panel. All those directional adjustments have to be made on the ground. This camera has a seperate lens for still pictures, with 4.3 megapixles of resolution. Yesterday, I only tried with the camera on the right side, looking forward. I'm planning on doing a lot more in flight video. With the zoom lens, I'll be looking for swimming pools & bikini's !!! he he he... Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
<003501c54eac$e0701370$0200a8c0@snyderxp>
Subject: TIG/Plasma rig
Date: May 01, 2005
so... today I tried TIG welding for the first time. Wow! it's easier than it seems. If you can gas weld then TIG is a no brainer. By my 2nd weld I was laying down nice beads with full penetration. I really like TIG! The one I tried out today is from this guy who lives near me. He helped develop and distributes this TIG/Plasma cutter all in the same box. it's a 40 amp plasma cutter and the TIG is 160amp. The plasma cutter is amazing. Sliced right through some .25" steel with ease. It will cut all the way through .75" steel if you crank it up to a full 40 amps. He sells the unit for a great price, about $1400. My dad and I are probably going to buy one.... where else can you get a plasma and TIG for $1400?! if any of you on the lust are shopping for a TIG or Plasma or both let me know. I can put you in contact with the guy. DJ Vegh ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: O-200 need muffler?
Date: Apr 30, 2005
Hi, I have a newly rebuilt O-200 sitting here waiting (and waiting) for me to finish the fuselage. It occurred to me that almost every Piet I have seen has no mufflers but are usually 65 to 85 hp. Do I need to concern myself with a muffler or something else to make enough back pressure to keep the O-200 happy? Will straight pipes burn valves? Thanks, Ted 90% done and 90% to go. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 02, 2005
Subject: Re: In Flight Video
In a message dated 5/1/2005 3:19:15 PM Central Standard Time, mosnei2(at)aol.com writes: Hi Chuck, Thats very interesting.. cant wait until you have a video available. Nice looking plane from what I can see, do you have a website or do you have any other photos of your plane? Best Regards, Derrick Derrick, I should have several video's available within the next couple of weeks. I don't have a web site, but I have all my detail construction and completed pictures included in the video's, along with narriation. The titles of the ones that I have started (but not finished) are: 1) Pietenpol & Aviation History, Reading the Pietenpol Plans, Infomation Sources 2) Tips & Tricks - Airframe 3) Tips & Tricks - Engine / Prop 4) Flying NX770CG 5) America Tour '04 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: O-200 need muffler?
Date: May 02, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Ted, The engine will be quite happy with straight pipes, but you might not be. My 65 Continental has no mufflers, with 2-into-1 exhaust manifolds on each side. They really bark, and I'm sorta wishing I had put mufflers on it. Jack Phillips Still working on repairing NX899JP All structural repairs done All fabric work done Nuthin' left but painting and assembly Hi, I have a newly rebuilt O-200 sitting here waiting (and waiting) for me to finish the fuselage. It occurred to me that almost every Piet I have seen has no mufflers but are usually 65 to 85 hp. Do I need to concern myself with a muffler or something else to make enough back pressure to keep the O-200 happy? Will straight pipes burn valves? Thanks, Ted 90% done and 90% to go. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 02, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: O-200 need muffler?
<001901c54ebe$8977a6c0$4a374e0c@TedB> Ted, Don't know about the back pressure thing, but my A-65 with 4 separate straight pipes ending just forward of the front pit, it's not a quiet ride. But people on the ground say it's a beautiful, unique sound, and not to change a thing. Think even with mufflers a Piet would never be an "open air conversation" type plane. I have an intercom with headsets that work quite well. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: O-200 need muffler? > > Hi, > > I have a newly rebuilt O-200 sitting here waiting (and waiting) for me to > finish the fuselage. It occurred to me that almost every Piet I have seen > has no mufflers but are usually 65 to 85 hp. Do I need to concern myself > with a muffler or something else to make enough back pressure to keep the > O-200 happy? Will straight pipes burn valves? > > Thanks, > > Ted > 90% done and 90% to go. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 02, 2005
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: O-200 need muffler?
report As for "burning the valves", in my experience with cars, I belive 10"-12" of pipe is enough to protect the valves. Basically I think you are just trying to keep cold/oxygen rich air away from them. Maybe someone else here can confirm or deny that. As for backpressure, I see a lot of discussion on that, on both sides of the fence, and my take has always been that it is not necessary at all, and unless you want to get into a tuned exhaust system it isn't even worth discussing. I've never seen a dyno graph that showed reduced torque at any RPM due to a lower backpressure exhaust system. From an engineering standpoint, I wouldn't expect to see one either. My GN-1 with an A-75 and open pipes is quite noisy! A large portion of the noise my passenger's mic picks up is from the exhaust, I can clearly hear it through my headset. I wish it was quieter, but honestly with a decent headset it doesn't bother me. I don't know what a typical muffler weighs for an O-200, but I wouldn't want to pay much of a weight penalty to make the plane quieter. Right now my intercom is nearly useless due to the wind/engine noise. Last week I ordered some leather mic covers/muffs that should help a lot though. I've used them in a Starduster and they did help a lot, although it is hard to compare it to the Pietenpol since the Starduster has mufflers and a less windy cockpit. I don't even remember where I ordered them from now, I can check this evening if anyone wants to know. I won't be able to try them out until next weekend. Steve Ruse - Coppell, TX N6383J - KGYI Quoting walt evans : > > Ted, > Don't know about the back pressure thing, but my A-65 with 4 separate > straight pipes ending just forward of the front pit, it's not a quiet ride. > But people on the ground say it's a beautiful, unique sound, and not to > change a thing. Think even with mufflers a Piet would never be an "open air > conversation" type plane. > I have an intercom with headsets that work quite well. > walt evans > NX140DL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 10:07 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: O-200 need muffler? > > > >> >> Hi, >> >> I have a newly rebuilt O-200 sitting here waiting (and waiting) for me to >> finish the fuselage. It occurred to me that almost every Piet I have seen >> has no mufflers but are usually 65 to 85 hp. Do I need to concern myself >> with a muffler or something else to make enough back pressure to keep the >> O-200 happy? Will straight pipes burn valves? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ted >> 90% done and 90% to go. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 02, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: kinda OT......Interesting video....
Hey Walt-- Yes, that was me in the Restorers video clip. A local film maker contacted me to be in this documentary and though I didn't fit the typical bill for the 'restorers' kind of subject, he liked the diversion from heavy metal WWII restorations to back-to-the-basics type building that the Pietetenpol has. He strapped his Super 16 mm movie camera ( I think 16 is for 16 pounds:) to the front cabane with foam padding, duct tape, straps, etc. He rode in the front while we did buzz jobs on farmland and such. My portion of this hour long video is only about 6 minutes but it's all Pietenpol. It has aired on local Cleveland PBS stations but he's trying to get it aired on something big like Discovery or History Channel, etc. Mike C. http://www.therestorers.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 02, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: O-200 need muffler?
<001901c54ebe$8977a6c0$4a374e0c@TedB> <002401c54f18$8a38b9f0$2cc5fea9@home> <20050502105956.5yg836hng80kgsc8(at)www.wotelectronics.com> Steve, Got a great idea from somebody, and the cost is free! Get the plastic 35mm film containers. Cut an "X" in the lid and slide it on the mic arm. Then wrap some foam around the mic and slide on the 35mm can after you have drilled a 1/4" hole in the side. Line up the hole with your mouth. Better than sliced bread. Just keep the hole tight against your mouth to keep out engine noise. My engine noise keeps my intercom open, but makes for a pleasant ride with me as the tour guide. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: O-200 need muffler? > > As for "burning the valves", in my experience with cars, I belive 10"-12" of > pipe is enough to protect the valves. Basically I think you are just > trying to > keep cold/oxygen rich air away from them. Maybe someone else here can confirm > or deny that. > > As for backpressure, I see a lot of discussion on that, on both sides of the > fence, and my take has always been that it is not necessary at all, and unless > you want to get into a tuned exhaust system it isn't even worth discussing. > I've never seen a dyno graph that showed reduced torque at any RPM due to a > lower backpressure exhaust system. From an engineering standpoint, I wouldn't > expect to see one either. > > My GN-1 with an A-75 and open pipes is quite noisy! A large portion of the > noise my passenger's mic picks up is from the exhaust, I can clearly hear it > through my headset. I wish it was quieter, but honestly with a decent headset > it doesn't bother me. I don't know what a typical muffler weighs for > an O-200, > but I wouldn't want to pay much of a weight penalty to make the plane quieter. > Right now my intercom is nearly useless due to the wind/engine noise. Last > week I ordered some leather mic covers/muffs that should help a lot though. > I've used them in a Starduster and they did help a lot, although it is hard to > compare it to the Pietenpol since the Starduster has mufflers and a less windy > cockpit. I don't even remember where I ordered them from now, I can > check this > evening if anyone wants to know. I won't be able to try them out until next > weekend. > > Steve Ruse - Coppell, TX > N6383J - KGYI > > Quoting walt evans : > > > > > Ted, > > Don't know about the back pressure thing, but my A-65 with 4 separate > > straight pipes ending just forward of the front pit, it's not a quiet ride. > > But people on the ground say it's a beautiful, unique sound, and not to > > change a thing. Think even with mufflers a Piet would never be an "open air > > conversation" type plane. > > I have an intercom with headsets that work quite well. > > walt evans > > NX140DL > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 10:07 PM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: O-200 need muffler? > > > > > > > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> I have a newly rebuilt O-200 sitting here waiting (and waiting) for me to > >> finish the fuselage. It occurred to me that almost every Piet I have seen > >> has no mufflers but are usually 65 to 85 hp. Do I need to concern myself > >> with a muffler or something else to make enough back pressure to keep the > >> O-200 happy? Will straight pipes burn valves? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Ted > >> 90% done and 90% to go. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: O-200 need muffler?
Date: May 02, 2005
As for "burning the valves", in my experience with cars, I believe 10"-12" of pipe is enough to protect the valves. Basically I think you are just trying to keep cold/oxygen rich air away from them. Maybe someone else here can confirm or deny that. As for backpressure, I see a lot of discussion on that, on both sides of the fence, and my take has always been that it is not necessary at all, and unless you want to get into a tuned exhaust system it isn't even worth discussing. I've never seen a dyno graph that showed reduced torque at any RPM due to a lower backpressure exhaust system. From an engineering standpoint, I wouldn't expect to see reduced power either. My GN-1 with an A-75 and open pipes is quite noisy! A large portion of the noise my passenger's mic picks up is from the exhaust, I can clearly hear it through my headset. I wish it was quieter at times, but honestly with a decent headset it doesn't bother me. I don't know what a typical muffler weighs for an O-200, but I wouldn't want to pay much of a weight penalty to make the plane quieter. Right now my intercom is nearly useless due to the wind/engine noise. Last week I ordered some leather mic covers/muffs that should help a lot. I've used them in a Starduster and they did help a lot, although it is hard to compare it to the Pietenpol since the Starduster had mufflers and a less windy cockpit. I don't even remember where I ordered them from now, I can check this evening if anyone wants to know. I won't be able to try them out until next weekend. Steve Ruse - Coppell, TX N6383J - KGYI -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of walt evans Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: O-200 need muffler? Ted, Don't know about the back pressure thing, but my A-65 with 4 separate straight pipes ending just forward of the front pit, it's not a quiet ride. But people on the ground say it's a beautiful, unique sound, and not to change a thing. Think even with mufflers a Piet would never be an "open air conversation" type plane. I have an intercom with headsets that work quite well. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: O-200 need muffler? > > Hi, > > I have a newly rebuilt O-200 sitting here waiting (and waiting) for me to > finish the fuselage. It occurred to me that almost every Piet I have seen > has no mufflers but are usually 65 to 85 hp. Do I need to concern myself > with a muffler or something else to make enough back pressure to keep the > O-200 happy? Will straight pipes burn valves? > > Thanks, > > Ted > 90% done and 90% to go. > > -- -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Interesting looking Piet
Date: May 03, 2005
Babelfish translates the text as follows: The first "Aircamper" was drawn and built by Bernie PIETENPOL in the United States in 1927. The prototype was motorized by an engine of Ford T developing 35HP and comprised inter alia recoveries, 2 wheels of 26"of Harley Davidson. Among the thousands of specimens built since by amateurs, one considers qu it never had two similar of it there. Faithful to the tradition, Miss "Forever Young" consists of lements of Piper J3 and the wheels are XT500. It took 3000 working hours to build it and the first flight took place in June 1997 in Andernos. Contact of its current owner. Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association http://www.ov-10bronco.net/ http://www.aeroclubandernos.com/ses_avions_bases.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: O-200 need muffler?
Date: May 03, 2005
Has anybody tried the muffler tips off a VW (the straight section at the end, chromed, about 8" long)? Or possibly the "insert" section that motorcycle exhausts use, sort of a dimpled tube baffle that slips inside the end of the exhaust? I might experiment with something, once I get 41CC flying again... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: O-200 need muffler?
Oscar, I made my pipes from the VW "bypass pipes" that can be gotten thru JC whitney. They are shaped like a candy cane with a flange attached. Originally used to bypass the heater box on the Beetles. They are dirt cheap (about $9.95 each when I got mine) The flange even matches the Continental exhaust port studs!! What more could you want? Just cut the pipes where you want to get the shape you want, and weld the joints. I needed a little more pipe so a trip to the local auto store got me a piece in the "piece of pipe display" walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: O-200 need muffler? > > Has anybody tried the muffler tips off a VW (the straight section at the > end, chromed, about 8" long)? Or possibly the "insert" section that > motorcycle exhausts use, sort of a dimpled tube baffle that slips inside the > end of the exhaust? > > I might experiment with something, once I get 41CC flying again... > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Oklahoma Piet for sale
Date: May 03, 2005
Pieters; Back in December, Mike Cuy passed along this listing from Barnstormers: ============== PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER $9,500 FOR SALE Completed and flown in 2001 2 seat aircamper FAA reg. exp. 35 hrs. t.t. af and eng. 85 hp EA 81 subaru, bal & blueprinted , cruises at 75mph with 75% pwr. Internal wood const. built by a craftsman with over 25 homebuilt aircraft completed. Will send pic's upon request. Contact Lane Hetherington - located Pamana, OK USA Telephone: 918-963-4467 Posted October 10, 2004 ============== A friend of an A&P friend of mine in New Mexico is buying, or has bought, this airplane and is asking the A&P if he'll do an annual on it for him when it's airworthy again. I've been asked if I know anything about this airplane, which I don't. Does anybody here on the list know anything about this airplane or its owner/builder? Thanks. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: O-200 need muffler?
Date: May 03, 2005
Thanks for all the good comments. I guess I will go with what we have on the present 65 Cont. I love the sound. After over 400 hours in it I didn't realize it was noisy. Should have know when we could never get a good conversation over the intercom. On that subject I would like to know if anyone has come up with a good combination of headsets and intercom that works in a Piet. Thanks again, Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2005
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: O-200 need muffler?
Ted, some of the intercoms made for the ultralites probably would work for you. I think that Sigtronics (Sp) makes a few. But to me, part of the romance of flying and open-cockpit is the in-ability to talk between the two cockpits. I just love to soar with the sun and the wind bathed in the silent droan of the unfettered engine. You can share the ride with another person and still enjoy the solitude made possible by the open cockpit. This way the flight is not lost on words and can be enjoyed by each person in their own special way. If communication is necessary, then hand signals do work pretty well and the slience of the flight is still unbroken. Doc --- Ted Brousseau wrote: > Brousseau" > > Thanks for all the good comments. I guess I will go > with what we have on > the present 65 Cont. I love the sound. After over > 400 hours in it I didn't > realize it was noisy. Should have know when > we could never get a > good conversation over the intercom. > > On that subject I would like to know if anyone has > come up with a good > combination of headsets and intercom that works in a > Piet. > > Thanks again, > > Ted > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2005
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Interesting looking Piet
Put F-PBGT into google and came up with this as well; http://www.bea-fr.org/docspa/2001/f-gt010728/htm/f-gt010728.html Clif > > Chris, > > I stumbled across this same photo during lunch a couple of weeks ago, and > I > also found another web page (which , for the life of me, I cannot find > now!) > that had a better description . The plane is based in France, near > Bordeaux. > At the top of the web page, click on [les baptmes de l'air] for some > fantastic aerial views of the surrounding countryside. > It is, as Jack Phillips' sharp eyes detected, a modified GN-1. It > incorporates wings and tail from a J-3 cub. > > Bill > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: O-200 need muffler?
Date: May 04, 2005
Ted I agree, that put-put sound is part of the overall joy. Lets not talk to the Harley drivers about mufflers either. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> Subject: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: O-200 need muffler? > > > Thanks for all the good comments. I guess I will go with what we have on > the present 65 Cont. I love the sound. After over 400 hours in it I > didn't > realize it was noisy. Should have know when we could never get a > good conversation over the intercom. > > On that subject I would like to know if anyone has come up with a good > combination of headsets and intercom that works in a Piet. > > Thanks again, > > Ted > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: dihedral vs. no dihedral final outcome
Finished my "adding dihedral" change last evening. This morning did a final inspection and went flying. What a different airplane!! Without dihedral there didn't seem to be any distinct track. You could put in some rudder and the yaw would be happy to stay there whout any sign of a roll. Now with slight rudder inputs, the plane will gently bank and turn accordingly. Was worried that while in the hanger that when I got done it would look "clown like". But outside in the sunlight, I like it! And I'm glad I did it! After that I took my friend Don for a spin around the valley, and over his house. A fun time was had by all. Ain't life grand!! walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: May 04, 2005
Subject: Thinking outside the box. Metric Plywood Shipping
Several months ago I was in need of some 4x4 1.5mm metric plywood. Aircraft Spruce and Wicks wanted a very large chunk of money to ship this 4x4 sheet of plywood, saying they had to ship it VIA truck (as in 18 wheeler)! The cost to ship the plywood to me was something like the national debt of a third world country. I'm happy to say that Alpha Aviation Supply in Greenville, TX was able to ship me 2 pieces of plywood for less than $26. Russ Chambers who runs the place simply rolled up two sheets of the plywood, placed them in a cardboard box and shipped them to me by UPS for less than $26. I'd say Russ was thinking "outside the box" and he saved me a large chunk of cash. I wonder why Aircraft Spruce and Wicks couldn't think of this. Russ can be reached at (903) 455-3113 if anyone needs metric plywood. Russ is a nice chap by the way. Sterling 5TA6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: dihedral vs. no dihedral final outcome
Date: May 04, 2005
Nice choice of colors there Walt. We are twins, down to the cut out in the center section and MC wheels. Also as I recall, Don Hicks has one almost the same. We will have to have a squadron formed sometime. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 4:39 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: dihedral vs. no dihedral final outcome Finished my "adding dihedral" change last evening. This morning did a final inspection and went flying. What a different airplane!! Without dihedral there didn't seem to be any distinct track. You could put in some rudder and the yaw would be happy to stay there whout any sign of a roll. Now with slight rudder inputs, the plane will gently bank and turn accordingly. Was worried that while in the hanger that when I got done it would look "clown like". But outside in the sunlight, I like it! And I'm glad I did it! After that I took my friend Don for a spin around the valley, and over his house. A fun time was had by all. Ain't life grand!! walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Thinking outside the box. Metric Plywood Shipping
Date: May 04, 2005
Funny, Wicks (I believe) ships us stacks of 1/32 plywood at work, and they roll it up like paper into a big box. (We use it to make molded, laminated leading edges for the Skybolt and Pitts S1.) I think UPS has a limit on the total size of the box (lenth + width + height) and maybe 4x4 feet went beyond that and they didn't ask anyone in the shipping room (or they thought it needed a 1/4 inch ply crate?) Weird. -Mike Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association http://www.ov-10bronco.net/ Aircraft Spruce and Wicks wanted a very large chunk of money to ship this 4x4 sheet of plywood via truck ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 05, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: dihedral vs. no dihedral final outcome
Walt--- Too cool ! Good for you. Like a flight instructor told me one time when Frank Pavliga was giving me a hard time about putting dihedral in my Piet (his wing is flat) "bird have it, so why argue with God ?" Mike C. PS.....I love irritating the crap out of the purist Pietenpol crowd ! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: May 05, 2005
Shipping
Subject: Re: Thinking outside the box. Metric Plywood Shipping
When I called Wicks, the gal on the phone said the plywood would have to ship by truck. She didn't even mention any other method such as rolling up and shipping in a round tube or small box that UPS could work with. Same thing happened at Aircraft Spruce when I called them... "has to go by motor freight..." they said. Russ Chambers (at Alpha Aviation) must be in his late 70s and right off the bat, he said he could roll up the plywood and ship it by UPS. Russ (unlike the gals) handles not only the phone orders, but shipping, ordering, sweeping the floors and unlocking the doors. My pun, "thinking outside the box" should have suggested that Russ was thinking not only outside the box, but a way to ship plywood inside the box. Sterling Brooks Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch 5TA6 San Antonio Sectional ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "M&M Stanley" <tomiya(at)di.mbn.or.jp>
Subject: 2nd Japanese Piet
Date: May 05, 2005
Hi to everyone on the Piet list, Just thought I would drop a quick note. I've been reading peoples comments on this list for quite some time now. I must say that most of it is pretty good and I've learned some very useful stuff about building a Piet. A while back, Mike Cuy commented about a Japanese based Piet. The builder of that one is a good friend of mine. Basically, I am Australian, living here for a while with my lovely wife, I repair damaged sailplanes for a living, fly R/C models as well as full size when I can get a seat. I own 2 sailplanes in Australia, one vintage design (all wood) and one FRP. I had always liked the Piet design but after meeting him and seeing his 'Piet in progress', it got me fired up enough to start building. Time is a big problem (not to mention space), I have been slowly playing around with it for about a year. I am still building ribs. (20 are complete). This is not exactly a speed record for building ribs but some progress is better than no progress! I am using Douglas Fir for the ribs. I bought a nice piece of it and then cut all of the cap strip material from it. I have already cut enough strip and made a 'kit' of rib parts so now I am just gluing my 'kit' together. I had planned to do the metal fittings but you can't but 4130 over here and the freight cost's from the USA are fairly high so I will wait until later. After the ribs are completed, I may built the tailfeathers as they don't take up too much storage space. I have attached a couple of photos, one is of the first of my ribs being built in the shadow of Mr.Mita's Piet, and the other one was taken when I completed one wing panels worth of ribs. Anyway, enough rambling from me at the moment! It is great to be able to read what others are doing and to know that someone will probably have answers to any areas that I may get stuck with as the Piet progress's along. When we move back to OZ (Australia), the Piet project will go with. This project will take a while but that's no problem. So, that's it for now, I will post a message occasionally now that I have started. Regards to all. Mark Stanley Japan (for now) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 05, 2005
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Alpha Aviation
DNA: do not archive Its-Bogus: do not forward to list --- MIME Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting. NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be informed of the potential problem with their system as soon as possible. --- MIME Errors --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 05, 2005
Subject: Re: dihedral vs. no dihedral final outcome
In a message dated 5/5/2005 7:53:32 AM Central Standard Time, Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes: "bird have it, so why argue with God ?" Mike C. PS.....I love irritating the crap out of the purist Pietenpol crowd ! Yeah, but if God would have intended Pietenpols to have dihedral, he would have influenced Bernard Harold Pietenpol to put it in !! :) Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WPTCorp(at)aol.com
Date: May 05, 2005
Subject: 0-235
Has any one put 0-235 lycoming on a piet? Here in Wyoming at 5500 feet the corvair is having a little trouble. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PIETLARS29(at)wmconnect.com
Date: May 05, 2005
Subject: Re: 0-235
Hi; There was a jenny/mod Piet here in Florida with an O-235 a while back. The local scuttlebutt was that it flew like a bird AND landed in trees a few times; don't know if that was due to the 0-235. Rather suspect not, but I heard it was heavy too. Take this as pure rumor as far as facts are concerned. Lou Larsen PS Big day last week; I 'hung' the 'A' in the airframe. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Thursby" <jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: 0-235
Date: May 05, 2005
There is a gent named George Read from Twelve Oaks Florida who's Piet is powered with a 235. It has a lot of mods. Does about a hundred cruise and climbs about a thousand a minute. Jim T. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of WPTCorp(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 7:03 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: 0-235 Has any one put 0-235 lycoming on a piet? Here in Wyoming at 5500 feet the corvair is having a little trouble. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: 0-235
Date: May 05, 2005
I have an older 100 hp o-235 with GM starter in N-1033B, a modified Piete. The old C-85 was badly damaged in the crash back in '96. Jumps in the air now like a rabbit. N-1033B was built by Dick Griede in '87 to use Aeronca wings, he had moved the wings back (or fuselage forward-for nitpickin' purest) to 18" behind the firewall. With my 280lbs, CG balances nicely. Passenger's cg is just a few inches behind empty CG. These Aeronca wings have gross wt. 1300 capacity, so it's real hard for me to overload it considering the squeeze to get into the front seat. The plane with 0-235 came in at 680 lbs. There's another guy in S. Africa that is flying a 0.235 powered Piete, he sent me a nice picture. With this additional weight for this engine vs C-85, if you're under 150 lbs, you'll have to put ballast in the tail. Purest------please disregard the above message or go take your meds. Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska Cozy IV N64CY Osprey II N64SY Pietenpol N-1033B " But such is the constitution of my mind I cannot avoid forming an opinion", John Adams ----- Original Message ----- From: WPTCorp(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 3:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 0-235 Has any one put 0-235 lycoming on a piet? Here in Wyoming at 5500 feet the corvair is having a little trouble. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: 0-235
Date: May 05, 2005
N-1033B Piet is sitting in hanger #8 at Palatka FL Kay Larkin Airport for any of you FL folks that want to look at a flying modified Piete with an O-235. Anybody wanting a looksee, let me know. Co-owner/rebuilder Floyd Jackson lives in Satsuma. Gordon Bowen ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Thursby To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 6:18 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 0-235 There is a gent named George Read from Twelve Oaks Florida who's Piet is powered with a 235. It has a lot of mods. Does about a hundred cruise and climbs about a thousand a minute. Jim T. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of WPTCorp(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 7:03 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: 0-235 Has any one put 0-235 lycoming on a piet? Here in Wyoming at 5500 feet the corvair is having a little trouble. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2005
From: BernadetteTS <docfont(at)voyager.net>
Subject: Re: dihedral vs. no dihedral final outcome
> >From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: dihedral vs. no dihedral final outcome > >In a message dated 5/5/2005 7:53:32 AM Central Standard Time, >Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes: >"bird have it, so why argue with God ?" >Mike C. > >PS.....I love irritating the crap out of the purist Pietenpol crowd ! >Yeah, but if God would have intended Pietenpols to have dihedral, he would >have influenced Bernard Harold Pietenpol to put it in !! :) > >Chuck G. > Just like the logic that if God had wanted people to run around naked, he would have made them that way. DocFont ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: dihedral vs. no dihedral final outcome
How much did you raise each wing Walt? On 5/4/05, walt evans wrote: > > Finished my "adding dihedral" change last evening. This morning did a > final inspection and went flying. What a different airplane!! > Without dihedral there didn't seem to be any distinct track. You could > put in some rudder and the yaw would be happy to stay there whout any sign > of a roll. Now with slight rudder inputs, the plane will gently bank and > turn accordingly. > Was worried that while in the hanger that when I got done it would look > "clown like". > But outside in the sunlight, I like it! > And I'm glad I did it! > After that I took my friend Don for a spin around the valley, and over his > house. > A fun time was had by all. > Ain't life grand!! > walt evans > NX140DL > > -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Gordon's Piet
Gordon-- that is too cool. Your Piet sounds great. Not a bad empty weight either-- not bad at all. Those Aeronca wings can sure lift. So what is your wing span ? Our Champ used to be what, 35 feet ? That can account for some good lifting capacity on your Piets part. I like your line about taking meds..... keep flying and hope the weather has broke for you in Alaska ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: dihedral vs. no dihedral final outcome
Rick, I had made a "wedge" of 1 1/2 deg from 3 ft piece of 1X2 wood, and used that along with a level to get the angle. Also my wings were a little negitive to start with. With all that said, if you were starting with a flat wing, the numbers come out to about 2.7" up on each wingtip. Also , another plus, for whatever reason I'm getting an increase in cruise/top speed, with the dihedral, of 6 mph at cruise. With full power, my indicated is well over 90 mph. But checking with a GPS in four directions found my airspeed is really 86/87. Still not too shabby. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 10:28 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: dihedral vs. no dihedral final outcome How much did you raise each wing Walt? On 5/4/05, walt evans wrote: Finished my "adding dihedral" change last evening. This morning did a final inspection and went flying. What a different airplane!! Without dihedral there didn't seem to be any distinct track. You could put in some rudder and the yaw would be happy to stay there whout any sign of a roll. Now with slight rudder inputs, the plane will gently bank and turn accordingly. Was worried that while in the hanger that when I got done it would look "clown like". But outside in the sunlight, I like it! And I'm glad I did it! After that I took my friend Don for a spin around the valley, and over his house. A fun time was had by all. Ain't life grand!! walt evans NX140DL -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Stapelberg" <norshel(at)mweb.co.za>
Subject: 0-235
Date: May 06, 2005
I have a 0-235 powered piet based in South Africa,attached is a pic I get a cruise of 70 mph @ 2200rpm still busy with my tail consolidation. I have just fitted a Vans RV6 cross over exhaust system, just waiting for my instructor and we'll be flying again. Norman Stapelberg ZS-VJA (124hrs) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of WPTCorp(at)aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: 0-235 Has any one put 0-235 lycoming on a piet? Here in Wyoming at 5500 feet the corvair is having a little trouble. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: dihedral vs. speed
Since I put dihedral in the wings the cruise/top speed has increased. Probably not due to the dihedral, but due to correction of wrong rigging before. I'm just curious, what speeds are you guys seeing? I'm up around 90 full throttle (checked with a GPS) are you guys getting around the same? I've got an A-65 with a certified Sensenich prop. I'm pretty light , 595# empty. When I open the throttle, and slight nose down (to get it up on step) without losing altitude, it really whirls. but now with the new dihedral, it flies solid as a rock, not like a squirlly runaway train like before. what's the poop? walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: dihedral vs. speed
Walt-- I'm seeing 72 mph w/ a 65 hp. at 2150 cruise rpm and about 85-90 full throttle. Like when the controllers at Oshkosh tell you to "keep up your speed" If they only knew I was already at full throttle, but you don't talk as a pilot, you just listen..... Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Gordon's Piet
Date: May 06, 2005
Mike, Thanks, the guy that deserves the credit was an AP with Cessna in KS. He built the Piete with 4130 steel, this made a very lite wgt plane. Aeronca made three wings based on my research, 1100 thru 1300 lbs of lift. These wings appear to come from the bigger payload based on size. My only real contribution to this plane was the rebuild, recover, paint and engine conversion after it set in the hanger for the last 8 years due to the wreck. The guy that sold it to me (second owner/non-builder) made a couple mistakes- first an most important--- not enough bungee for a hard landing. And no safety straps on gear to insure they won't rotate out and up when bungees are at full stretch. When wrecked the gear slipped out of the expansion tube, bent up 90 degrees, bent up the wing struts and dipped the wing into the ground. I think this amount of damage could have been avoided with enough Cub like bungees, and cable stop straps. The wreck occurred due to a thrown piston on C-85. The O-235 was questionable due to fact everything was designed around C-85 wt. My building partner is 80 years old and didn't want to hand prop, and I'm quite a number of lbs over the standard FAA 170 lb pilot. So wanted to have plane that would balance with a fat boy in the pilot seat, without ballast up front or in back. The Cozy is so tail heavy, you need to have min. of 250 lbs in front seat to fly without ballast. Without 10 lbs in the nose, it'll fall on it's prop if you don't park nose gear retracted. So had some experience in trying to find balance. The O-235 is an excellent engine for the Piete. It's available, cheap, has a lot of accessory options. You just have to adjust for the excess weight up front. The Piets a great design for mods. as long as you plan the mods during the building process. I wish I had made the fuselage a little wider while we were rewelding the wreck damage. Love the Piete, because of it's versatility, even if I'm not a purest. Gordon Bowen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gordon's Piet > > Gordon-- that is too cool. Your Piet sounds great. Not a bad empty > weight either-- not bad at all. Those Aeronca wings can sure lift. > So what is your wing span ? Our Champ used to be what, 35 feet ? That > can account for some good lifting capacity on your Piets part. > I like your line about taking meds..... > > keep flying and hope the weather has broke for you in Alaska ! > > Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 06, 2005
Subject: Re: dihedral vs. no dihedral final outcome
In a message dated 5/6/2005 6:43:51 AM Central Standard Time, docfont(at)voyager.net writes: Just like the logic that if God had wanted people to run around naked, he would have made them that way. DocFont Hi Doc !! That must be the logic they use at 'Party Cove' !! :) Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 07, 2005
Subject: Re: dihedral vs. speed
Walt, I'm seeing speeds very similar to Mike C., with my A65 and homebuilt 72 X 42 prop. The next time I have to pull the prop, I'll probably rework it a little bit to get more RPM, for a better take-off and climb. I'm still very intrigued with the Scimitar Prop, and hope to build one some day, using Eric Clutton's guide. Full power level flight, my adjusted tach reading is 2200 RPM. The A65 is rated at 2300 RPM. I have errors in my tach reading, as well as my ASI, and have adjusted these errors to conclude the speeds. I've done a few flight tests with the GPS, but neglected to put the results in my log...oh well...guess I'll have to go do the tests again. Hey, theres a good reason to go fly !! As far as your increased speed with the dihedral, I'm betting you had some washout rigged into your original configuration, and don't have washout in the re-rigged dihedral wing. The penalty for washout, is drag. The hershy bar planform of the Pietenpol wing does Not need washout, because it naturally stalls inboard first. That said, I think I saw somewhere that BHP did put a tiny little bit of washout in the wing, probably just to err on the side of washout. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: dihedral vs. speed
Date: May 06, 2005
i rigged my wings with .2=B0 of washout I'll be curious to see how she stalls. DJ (just sprayed the tail feathers with polyspray) Vegh www.imagedv.com/aircamper N74DV Mesa, AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 9:18 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: dihedral vs. speed Walt, I'm seeing speeds very similar to Mike C., with my A65 and homebuilt 72 X 42 prop. The next time I have to pull the prop, I'll probably rework it a little bit to get more RPM, for a better take-off and climb. I'm still very intrigued with the Scimitar Prop, and hope to build one some day, using Eric Clutton's guide. Full power level flight, my adjusted tach reading is 2200 RPM. The A65 is rated at 2300 RPM. I have errors in my tach reading, as well as my ASI, and have adjusted these errors to conclude the speeds. I've done a few flight tests with the GPS, but neglected to put the results in my log...oh well...guess I'll have to go do the tests again. Hey, theres a good reason to go fly !! As far as your increased speed with the dihedral, I'm betting you had some washout rigged into your original configuration, and don't have washout in the re-rigged dihedral wing. The penalty for washout, is drag. The hershy bar planform of the Pietenpol wing does Not need washout, because it naturally stalls inboard first. That said, I think I saw somewhere that BHP did put a tiny little bit of washout in the wing, probably just to err on the side of washout. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "M&M Stanley" <tomiya(at)di.mbn.or.jp>
Subject: Dihedral in my R/C Piet
Date: May 07, 2005
Just reading all of the Dihedral talk, I like the idea of a built to the plans Piet,I want a Ford A and 1929 gear with wire wheels when mine is completed, but, I must say that a touch of dihedral; makes it look just that little bit better........ My model Piet has dihedral, works great, then again it needs it as it doesn't have ailerons! The little Piet has had 148 flights so far, it first flew in 2001. The shots are of it sitting on the shores of Tokyo Bay, I flew it as far out over the water as I dared just so I could say that it has flown over Tokyo Bay, I guess it is something that most Piets don't get a chance to do very often. The other shot was taken when I flew it at the site of the first powered flights in Japan. The monument in the background is the memorial to those early flight by the Japanese. Built rib #21 today, progress, progress....................... Regards to all Mark S Japan (for now) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Dihedral in my R/C Piet
Date: May 07, 2005
hey! nice RC Piet! I built a 1/7th scale speed 400 electric Piet a couple years ago I've since converted it to an AC brushless motor and LiPoly batteries. flies for over 25 minutes on a charge. very quiet too. I'll give the plans away for free to anyone on this emial list... just email me and I can email them back. pics attached DJ Vegh www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: M&M Stanley To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 6:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dihedral in my R/C Piet Just reading all of the Dihedral talk, I like the idea of a built to the plans Piet,I want a Ford A and 1929 gear with wire wheels when mine is completed, but, I must say that a touch of dihedral; makes it look just that little bit better........ My model Piet has dihedral, works great, then again it needs it as it doesn't have ailerons! The little Piet has had 148 flights so far, it first flew in 2001. The shots are of it sitting on the shores of Tokyo Bay, I flew it as far out over the water as I dared just so I could say that it has flown over Tokyo Bay, I guess it is something that most Piets don't get a chance to do very often. The other shot was taken when I flew it at the site of the first powered flights in Japan. The monument in the background is the memorial to those early flight by the Japanese. Built rib #21 today, progress, progress....................... Regards to all Mark S Japan (for now) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WPTCorp(at)aol.com
Date: May 07, 2005
Subject: 0-235
Have had some trouble with the email getting to me. So here is the same question again. It would sure help me if someone has some information on putting a 0-235 on a aircamper, my covair in Wyoming is a little weak so any or all information would help. Pictures,weight and balance , motor mounts etc. thanks Dave Calar N14961 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Aircamper T-shirt on Ebay
Date: May 07, 2005
What a deal. I wish I had one. Ebay item # 4548763352 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item4548763352#ebayphotohosting ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: free Piet plans - r/c 1/7 scale
Date: May 07, 2005
I got quite a few off line emails for the plans. rather than send out separate emails I'll just post a link to them I'll make them available for free. I'll keep the link active for one week. Please, these are for Piet list members only. I'm selling them on ebay to the general public. here ya go. They are in .pdf format and can be printed on large paper at a blueprint or copy shop for about $10. www.imagedv.com/aircamperplans_pietlist.zip and hey... while I'm at it, here's a link to the Cessna Citation II plans I drew a couple years ago (electric ducted fan power) www.imagedv.com/citationplans_pietlist.zip DJ Vegh N74DV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: dihedral vs. speed
Date: May 07, 2005
My speeds are about the same as Mike and Chuck. Also I have a one piece wing with 1 1/2" dihedral at tips. It flys very stable. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 11:18 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: dihedral vs. speed Walt, I'm seeing speeds very similar to Mike C., with my A65 and homebuilt 72 X 42 prop. The next time I have to pull the prop, I'll probably rework it a little bit to get more RPM, for a better take-off and climb. I'm still very intrigued with the Scimitar Prop, and hope to build one some day, using Eric Clutton's guide. Full power level flight, my adjusted tach reading is 2200 RPM. The A65 is rated at 2300 RPM. I have errors in my tach reading, as well as my ASI, and have adjusted these errors to conclude the speeds. I've done a few flight tests with the GPS, but neglected to put the results in my log...oh well...guess I'll have to go do the tests again. Hey, theres a good reason to go fly !! As far as your increased speed with the dihedral, I'm betting you had some washout rigged into your original configuration, and don't have washout in the re-rigged dihedral wing. The penalty for washout, is drag. The hershy bar planform of the Pietenpol wing does Not need washout, because it naturally stalls inboard first. That said, I think I saw somewhere that BHP did put a tiny little bit of washout in the wing, probably just to err on the side of washout. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <flyinhobo(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Corvair Engines
Date: May 07, 2005
This my first post to this page. I'm Paul Carter proud owner of two corvair engines and plans from Don Pietenpol. I've sat back and read all these messages about your Piets and just had to contribute something. I attended the Low Country Corviar show in Charleston SC today and met Cecil Flowers Jr. He owns Flowers Auto Sales and specializes in Corvairs. He said he has 4 Corvair 110 hp engines he will sell. He lives in Lincolnton, NC. phone number: 704-732-1449 no E-mail ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Date: May 08, 2005
Shipping
Subject: Re: Thinking outside the box. Metric Plywood Shipping
In a message dated 5/5/05 8:02:39 A.M. Central Daylight Time, N321TX(at)wmconnect.com writes: When I called Wicks, the gal on the phone said the plywood would have to ship by truck. She didn't even mention any other method such as rolling up and shipping in a round tube or small box that UPS could work with. Same thing happened at Aircraft Spruce when I called them... "has to go by motor freight..." they said. Russ Chambers (at Alpha Aviation) must be in his late 70s and right off the bat, he said he could roll up the plywood and ship it by UPS. Russ (unlike the gals) handles not only the phone orders, but shipping, ordering, sweeping the floors and unlocking the doors. My pun, "thinking outside the box" should have suggested that Russ was thinking not only outside the box, but a way to ship plywood inside the box. Sterling Brooks Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch 5TA6 San Antonio Sectional sterling i was on a trip last weekend and stopped by wicks to get some t-88 glue,just a quart kit,they acted like i was putting them out with my little order. ill never go back, ill order from aircraft spruce from now on tom ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "M&M Stanley" <tomiya(at)di.mbn.or.jp>
Subject: Thanks for your R/C Piet plans
Date: May 08, 2005
You have a great looking little Piet as well. Thanks for making the plans available to list members (I've downloaded a copy for myself as well). My little Piet has a geared speed 400 and Ni-Cads in it as well. Flights are much shorter than 25 min but still great fun. I do stick to tradition, low and slow most of the time, good stuff ! I think your is lighter than mine as well, mine was originally designed for an .049, I modified it to suit electrics. Anyway, keep on flyin!! Regs Mark S Japan (for now) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Chambers" <ken@prototype-ideas.com>
Subject: dihedral vs. speed
Date: May 08, 2005
Hello Dick Any trick to putting dihedral in a one-piece wing? Ken in Austin, slowly putting the turtledeck together _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: dihedral vs. speed My speeds are about the same as Mike and Chuck. Also I have a one piece wing with 1 1/2" dihedral at tips. It flys very stable. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: dihedral vs. speed Walt, I'm seeing speeds very similar to Mike C., with my A65 and homebuilt 72 X 42 prop. The next time I have to pull the prop, I'll probably rework it a little bit to get more RPM, for a better take-off and climb. I'm still very intrigued with the Scimitar Prop, and hope to build one some day, using Eric Clutton's guide. Full power level flight, my adjusted tach reading is 2200 RPM. The A65 is rated at 2300 RPM. I have errors in my tach reading, as well as my ASI, and have adjusted these errors to conclude the speeds. I've done a few flight tests with the GPS, but neglected to put the results in my log...oh well...guess I'll have to go do the tests again. Hey, theres a good reason to go fly !! As far as your increased speed with the dihedral, I'm betting you had some washout rigged into your original configuration, and don't have washout in the re-rigged dihedral wing. The penalty for washout, is drag. The hershy bar planform of the Pietenpol wing does Not need washout, because it naturally stalls inboard first. That said, I think I saw somewhere that BHP did put a tiny little bit of washout in the wing, probably just to err on the side of washout. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com>
Subject: 4130 sheet substitution
Date: May 08, 2005
Gents, I'm reviewing the GN-1 plans today. Some of the fittings are to be built fom .065 4130N. I've got a bunch of .063N here in the shop. I know that conventional wisdom calls for up-sizing, but the next thickness from Aircraft Spruce is .071. Anybody out there used .063 in their fittings? Thanks, Alan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 08, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: dihedral vs. speed
<005101c55378$dc446d20$0700a8c0@DICKLAPTOP> Dick, Thanks for the feedback. I started a discussion last year, but there were pro's and con's for both dihedral and flat. boy, now I see first hand that dihedral was invented for a reason. Went up yesterday morning even though the winds were gusting. Even though I got bounced around, it was still controllable. flew south like a rocket, then turned North and kind of stopped. Guess the winds were around 20mph up there. It was fun. ""Calm seas do not a good sailor make"" walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 9:51 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: dihedral vs. speed My speeds are about the same as Mike and Chuck. Also I have a one piece wing with 1 1/2" dihedral at tips. It flys very stable. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 11:18 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: dihedral vs. speed Walt, I'm seeing speeds very similar to Mike C., with my A65 and homebuilt 72 X 42 prop. The next time I have to pull the prop, I'll probably rework it a little bit to get more RPM, for a better take-off and climb. I'm still very intrigued with the Scimitar Prop, and hope to build one some day, using Eric Clutton's guide. Full power level flight, my adjusted tach reading is 2200 RPM. The A65 is rated at 2300 RPM. I have errors in my tach reading, as well as my ASI, and have adjusted these errors to conclude the speeds. I've done a few flight tests with the GPS, but neglected to put the results in my log...oh well...guess I'll have to go do the tests again. Hey, theres a good reason to go fly !! As far as your increased speed with the dihedral, I'm betting you had some washout rigged into your original configuration, and don't have washout in the re-rigged dihedral wing. The penalty for washout, is drag. The hershy bar planform of the Pietenpol wing does Not need washout, because it naturally stalls inboard first. That said, I think I saw somewhere that BHP did put a tiny little bit of washout in the wing, probably just to err on the side of washout. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 08, 2005
From: "John and Phyllis Smoyer" <jpsmoyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Dihedral in my R/C Piet
<002601c5531c$fcd75f90$0100a8c0@Desktop> DJ: I'd love to have a copy of the plans for your RC PIet. Thanks very much. John Smoyer in Delaware ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: 4130 sheet substitution
Date: May 08, 2005
I believe the plans call for .065 for the elevator horns. The new plans have been revised to indicate .090 I think. .065 is ridiculously thin for elevator horns, so if you plan on using the .063 for that I would not reccomend it. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Lyscars To: Piet List Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 4130 sheet substitution Gents, I'm reviewing the GN-1 plans today. Some of the fittings are to be built fom .065 4130N. I've got a bunch of .063N here in the shop. I know that conventional wisdom calls for up-sizing, but the next thickness from Aircraft Spruce is .071. Anybody out there used .063 in their fittings? Thanks, Alan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Date: May 08, 2005
Subject: New TACO T-shirt?
I'm thinking about throwing away some more money on a new tee-shirt. You can see the design, featuring some fabulous artwork by DJ Vegh by pasting the below link in your browser. This spec shirt would be printed on Haynes Beefy T 100% cotton material (a tad better than the BYOP shirt) and the art appears on the front side. I might have something printed on the back side, but this is just speculation at this juncture. The more shirts that are ordered, the "cheaper" the price. I got a quote for 20 shirts, mostly for guys like me that have be "supersized" in sizes X-Large XX-Large. If 20 people commit to buy one, the price looks to be about $21.00 each for the shirt, and shipping to Knot-2-Shabby and then on to the final destination. Adding art to the back of the shirt would add to the cost, and I'm not certain if this would be an option since $21.00 is kinda pricey for a T-shirt. http://customink.com/cink/r.jsp?E=sterling%40pgrb.com&F=tacoshirt I'm open to other vendors who can do this for less mullah, if anyone can provide a recommendation. For those of you who haven't seen a hi-res picture of DJ's art, wow, it'll knock your socks off. His design is simply stunning and it looks really nice on a black T-shirt as seen in the link above. Thanks, Sterling ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "M&M Stanley" <tomiya(at)di.mbn.or.jp>
Subject: To MM
Date: May 09, 2005
Mothers Day ----- Original Message ----- From: M&M Stanley To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 11:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thanks for your R/C Piet plans You have a great looking little Piet as well. Thanks for making the plans available to list members (I've downloaded a copy for myself as well). My little Piet has a geared speed 400 and Ni-Cads in it as well. Flights are much shorter than 25 min but still great fun. I do stick to tradition, low and slow most of the time, good stuff ! I think your is lighter than mine as well, mine was originally designed for an .049, I modified it to suit electrics. Anyway, keep on flyin!! Regs Mark S Japan (for now) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: dihedral vs. speed
Date: May 08, 2005
No real trick. I built a table, 30 ft long. As I recall it was only about 18"+/- wide. I made sue it was level and ran a string line to verify a straight edge and found center and raised the tips 1 1/2'. I scarfed the joint about 18" and put 24"x1/8" ply plates over both sides of the splice. After building the first spar I built the second on top of the first, to make sure they came out the same. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Chambers To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 10:57 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: dihedral vs. speed Hello Dick Any trick to putting dihedral in a one-piece wing? Ken in Austin, slowly putting the turtledeck together From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 8:52 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: dihedral vs. speed My speeds are about the same as Mike and Chuck. Also I have a one piece wing with 1 1/2" dihedral at tips. It flys very stable. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 11:18 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: dihedral vs. speed Walt, I'm seeing speeds very similar to Mike C., with my A65 and homebuilt 72 X 42 prop. The next time I have to pull the prop, I'll probably rework it a little bit to get more RPM, for a better take-off and climb. I'm still very intrigued with the Scimitar Prop, and hope to build one some day, using Eric Clutton's guide. Full power level flight, my adjusted tach reading is 2200 RPM. The A65 is rated at 2300 RPM. I have errors in my tach reading, as well as my ASI, and have adjusted these errors to conclude the speeds. I've done a few flight tests with the GPS, but neglected to put the results in my log...oh well...guess I'll have to go do the tests again. Hey, theres a good reason to go fly !! As far as your increased speed with the dihedral, I'm betting you had some washout rigged into your original configuration, and don't have washout in the re-rigged dihedral wing. The penalty for washout, is drag. The hershy bar planform of the Pietenpol wing does Not need washout, because it naturally stalls inboard first. That said, I think I saw somewhere that BHP did put a tiny little bit of washout in the wing, probably just to err on the side of washout. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "M&M Stanley" <tomiya(at)di.mbn.or.jp>
Subject: Re: To MM#2
Date: May 09, 2005
again ----- Original Message ----- From: M&M Stanley To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 10:12 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: To MM Mothers Day ----- Original Message ----- From: M&M Stanley To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 11:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thanks for your R/C Piet plans You have a great looking little Piet as well. Thanks for making the plans available to list members (I've downloaded a copy for myself as well). My little Piet has a geared speed 400 and Ni-Cads in it as well. Flights are much shorter than 25 min but still great fun. I do stick to tradition, low and slow most of the time, good stuff ! I think your is lighter than mine as well, mine was originally designed for an .049, I modified it to suit electrics. Anyway, keep on flyin!! Regs Mark S Japan (for now) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 09, 2005
Subject: Re: New TACO T-shirt?
Sterling, Be sure to put me down for at least one. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New TACO T-shirt?
Put medown for one also. I'm thinking about throwing away some more money on a new tee-shirt. You can > see the design, featuring some fabulous artwork by DJ Vegh by pasting the > below link in your browser. > -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: dihedral vs. no dihedral
Date: May 09, 2005
From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com>
Hopefully, Forest Lovely will jump in here if my memory is shot, but I believe I have a letter saying that Bernard did add dihedral to the one piece wing. If I remember the description was that he had two fellas lift up on the wingtips when he measured for the lift-strut length resulting in some dihedral. I never was able to get how much out of him though. I'll mention it again - I had a Piet with anhedral and it would quickly drop one wing or the other when stalled. Made for very hairy landings at times. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Aircamper T-shirt on Ebay
Sterling-- that is an EXCELLENT auction. You are hilarious ! Mike C. >What a deal. I wish I had one. Ebay item # 45487633524ba468.jpg > ><http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4548763352#ebayphotohosting>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4548763352#ebayphotohosting > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 0-235
What airport elevation do you fly out of Dave? Rick H in Colorado On 5/7/05, WPTCorp(at)aol.com wrote: > > Have had some trouble with the email getting to me. So here is the same > question again. > It would sure help me if someone has some information on putting a 0-235 > on a aircamper, my covair in Wyoming is a little weak so any or all > information would help. Pictures,weight and balance , motor mounts etc. > thanks > Dave Calar > N14961 > -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John E. Joyce" <jayejay(at)comcast.net>
Subject: free Piet plans - r/c 1/7 scale
Date: May 09, 2005
DJ: Thanks for the link to the plans. Regards, John John Joyce 9 Sylvia Road North Reading, MA 01864 978.664.3578 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Subject: Pietenpol-List: free Piet plans - r/c 1/7 scale I got quite a few off line emails for the plans. rather than send out separate emails I'll just post a link to them I'll make them available for free. I'll keep the link active for one week. Please, these are for Piet list members only. I'm selling them on ebay to the general public. here ya go. They are in .pdf format and can be printed on large paper at a blueprint or copy shop for about $10. www.imagedv.com/aircamperplans_pietlist.zip and hey... while I'm at it, here's a link to the Cessna Citation II plans I drew a couple years ago (electric ducted fan power) www.imagedv.com/citationplans_pietlist.zip DJ Vegh N74DV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Re: Aircamper T-shirt on Ebay
Date: May 09, 2005
I just added a new product on Ebay for non-constipated pilots/builders and wannabees. Check this out # 4549090719 ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 9:00 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircamper T-shirt on Ebay Sterling-- that is an EXCELLENT auction. You are hilarious ! Mike C. What a deal. I wish I had one. Ebay item # 4548763352 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item4548763352#ebayphotohosting Pietenpol-List Email Forum - ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: DVD on Ebay
Date: May 09, 2005
For your viewing pleasure, I've submitted a DVD on Ebay showing my first flight in an airplane I built back in 1992ish. The DVD shows my first flight in my Avid Sportster I named, Felix The Kit. The video was shot totally from a cockpit perspective using a couple of microcams I used to have. I barely made the runway and bounced a lousy landing, but I survived. Music accompanies the hair-raising experience as I take off and land and beat the odds. I flew that sucker on the hottest day in July many years ago here in Texas. It was windy and nasty. And, I flew it without an audience. I figured if I crashed and burned, I'd be too darned embarrased to want to live through the ordeal having to suffer all those indignities. After I landed, I phoned my dad (WW2 aviator, retired jet jocky and A&P mechanic) and I told Pop "I had just made my first flight." He said, "Son there is only one reason why God allows for propellers on an airplane... That's to keep the pilot cool because if that big fan quits in mid-air, you should see the pilot sweat. AND WHY DID YOU FLY WHEN NOBODY WAS WATCHING?" (OK, call me the Village Idiot...) Also, for anyone contemplating installing a VW based engine in an airplane, I've added to this DVD the Mosler 82X Installation video that I produced for my client Mosler Motors, formerly based in North Carolina, and no longer in business. The installation video highlights the numerous basic steps of installing their engine in an Avid. It runs a tad over 33 minutes. For more info about the Mosler engine, see my auction. This segment will help most anyone thinking about installing a VW engine in an airplane. My wild ride in my Avid runs about 8 minutes. Flying an airplane I built was one of the highlights of my life, but the DVD I've posted on Ebay is grainy as heck, washed out and basically a poor representation of my professional work in television since 1973. But, it's a hoot and it has inspired a mess of my friends to get off the sofa, outta the house and in the garage to finish their own airplane projects. If I were you, don't bid too much on my DVD. I just need a little money to buy gas for my Pietenpol someday. I figure selling a couple of these DVDs will let me put some money in my piggy bank so I can get a few gallons of go-juice for my trip to Brodhead next year. Ebay item number 4549090719 Sterling Brooks Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch & Sometimes Digital Video Studio, but mostly a house-husband & dog sitter/rescuer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: auto fuel hose
Group-- for a list of reasons I won't bore you with, I'm going to use 1/4" gascolater and carb. These will be straight runs with no bends. See any reason why I shouldn't go this route ? It is a VW engine and I am using premium auto fuel, gravity fed. thanks ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: auto fuel hose
Date: May 09, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Is this a flexible hose? If not, can it absorb the normal vibrations of the engine? Jack Phillips, PE Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development Clinical Technologies and Services Cardinal Health Creedmoor, NC (919) 528-5212 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: auto fuel hose Group-- for a list of reasons I won't bore you with, I'm going to use 1/4" gascolater and carb. These will be straight runs with no bends. See any reason why I shouldn't go this route ? It is a VW engine and I am using premium auto fuel, gravity fed. thanks ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Metcalfe" <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: O-200 need muffler?
Date: May 09, 2005
I use a Sigtronics 400 N intercom in a Ferugson Ultralite with a Rotax 503 sitting right above my head. This plane is noisy. The intercom works great. It is made for open cockpit and war birds. I use standard head sets with out ANR and have plenty of volume and clarity. We talked to Dave Clark at sun-n-fun about head sets in open cockpit flying. To our surprize they said to use one of there cheapest set. I can get you the model number this week end. They said that ANR models will not work right in the open cocpit envorment. To much wind. I would give the 400N intercom a ride. It run about $235.00 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ted Brousseau Subject: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: O-200 need muffler? Thanks for all the good comments. I guess I will go with what we have on the present 65 Cont. I love the sound. After over 400 hours in it I didn't realize it was noisy. Should have know when we could never get a good conversation over the intercom. On that subject I would like to know if anyone has come up with a good combination of headsets and intercom that works in a Piet. Thanks again, Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com>
Subject: Re: 4130 sheet substitution
Date: May 09, 2005
Thanks, DJ, for your help. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 8:19 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 4130 sheet substitution I believe the plans call for .065 for the elevator horns. The new plans have been revised to indicate .090 I think. .065 is ridiculously thin for elevator horns, so if you plan on using the .063 for that I would not reccomend it. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Lyscars To: Piet List Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 4130 sheet substitution Gents, I'm reviewing the GN-1 plans today. Some of the fittings are to be built fom .065 4130N. I've got a bunch of .063N here in the shop. I know that conventional wisdom calls for up-sizing, but the next thickness from Aircraft Spruce is .071. Anybody out there used .063 in their fittings? Thanks, Alan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: dihedral vs. no dihedral
Date: May 09, 2005
good, bad, or indifferent -- dihedral also creates lift on the upwind wing in a sideslip, rolling the low wing back up & helping recovery from the slip. Mike C. Pretty Prairie, KS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)AOL.COM
Date: May 09, 2005
Subject: Re: auto fuel hose
In a message dated 5/9/2005 12:52:13 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes: Group-- for a list of reasons I won't bore you with, I'm going to use 1/4" gascolater and carb. These will be straight runs with no bends. See any reason why I shouldn't go this route ? It is a VW engine and I am using premium auto fuel, gravity fed. thanks ! Mike C. Mike, Is this for your A65 ? You have to check the flow rate with the nose up at the highest Angle of Attack, lowest fuel quantity, and end up with at least 125% of the highest fuel burn rate. That said, I don't think 1/4" hose is not large enough for the A65. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: this is what it's all about
Comming back from a photo shoot with my photographer friend. She snapped this comming in over the lake. AIN"T LIFE GRAND! walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: this is what it's all about
Date: May 10, 2005
geez.... you sure don't want to lose an engine on final at that field! Nice pic! DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 6:29 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: this is what it's all about Comming back from a photo shoot with my photographer friend. She snapped this comming in over the lake. AIN"T LIFE GRAND! walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: FW: dihedral vs. no dihedral
Date: May 10, 2005
From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com>
Per Dan's request.... -----Original Message----- From: Dan Wilson Subject: Re: dihedral vs. no dihedral William, please post this information for the Piet builders group. I spoke to Vi Kapler this morning about dihedral. Vi told me that Bernard did add dihedral to the one piece wing. He added two inches of dihedral by extending the length of the lift struts. He measured the dihedral by extending a string from wingtip to wingtip and measuring the distance from the string to the top surface of the wing at the center section. Last summer at Oshkosh we covered a Piet wing the was built by Bernard in 1966. This wing had 2 inches of dihedral. However, Bernard felt that 2 inches was too much. On the Last Original he used 1 inch of dihedral. Vi Kapler is building an Aircamper now. He intends to use 1 Inch of dihedral. Bernard felt that two inches made crosswind landing very difficult. Vi also mentioned that when rigging your wing it is important to provide 3/8 inch washout. The washout allows the center section of the wing to stall first then the stall moves out towards the wingtip. He also stated that Howard Henderson built his piet with a straight wing and no washout and claimed that it flew just fine. Vi thought that that must have been the only one that flew well with the straight wing and no washout. I have had the opportunity to observe Vi's craftsmanship and ask many questions, I dont think there is anyone that know more about the Piet than Vi Kapler . I intend to add 1 inch dihedral and 3/8 inch washout. Dan Wilson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: heating the carb
I'm running an A-65 with a Stromberg carb. This AM flight gave me alot of trouble with icing. Bounced it off the guys one airport over, who have taught in Cubs for many years. His answer was that it's always been a problem with the Cubs, and would be more so with the Piet cause the carb hangs out of the cowl a bit. His suggestion was to run a pipe from a heat muff right on to the body of the carb. Has anyone done this with good results? Thanks walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: heating the carb
Date: May 10, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Walt, I owned a J-3 with an A65 for several years and generally had problems with carb ice anytime the humidity was high and the temperature was between 20F and 60F. The Cub had a pretty effective carb heat system, but you dare not forget to use it. On more than one occasion I had the engine quit while taxiing for takeoff on a long taxiway on a cold morning. Carb ice was the general cause of my forced landing in my Pietenpol last November. It was 27F, with high humidity, and I was picking up carb ice in level flight so I turned my carb heat on and kept it on. Prolonged running with carb heat sucked the stainless steel wool I had added to my heat muff to increase heat transfer (bad idea) right into the carburetor. I don't think you would want to always be blowing hot air onto the carburetor because it would have the same effect as running with carb heat on (decreased power). Just have a good EFFECTIVE carb heat system and know when to turn it on. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- I'm running an A-65 with a Stromberg carb. This AM flight gave me alot of trouble with icing. Bounced it off the guys one airport over, who have taught in Cubs for many years. His answer was that it's always been a problem with the Cubs, and would be more so with the Piet cause the carb hangs out of the cowl a bit. His suggestion was to run a pipe from a heat muff right on to the body of the carb. Has anyone done this with good results? Thanks walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Date: May 11, 2005
Subject: 3 foot center section - # of ribs
Hey guys, I'm planning on building the 3'-0" center section that Bill Rewey has suggested for a larger center section tank. I'm working on my wing ribs now and am wondering how many to make for this design. It looks to me like the two end ribs are "doubled up". In other words, where the center section and the wing connect there are 2 ribs on each side. Is that right? If that's the case do I need 31 ribs?? Tom B. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Green" <mmml(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Ribs etc.
Date: May 11, 2005
Has anyone had any dealings with Design 52 Studio? A friend building a Flybaby sent me the link below, he got a lot of his 4130 fittings from this guy and from what I saw on the weekend, they look great. I was thinking of getting the 3 piece wing rib set from him (haven't got a price back as yet). I know, I know,....I should be building them myself but if it gets me in the air any sooner, I'm all for it. Any feed back would be greatly appreciated. Here's the link - http://www.design52studio.com/index2.htm Mike Green Romsey, Victoria, Australia VH-MNM (Reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2005
Subject: Re: this is what it's all about
Walt, That's a great picture of the final approach. Do you do most of your landings on hard surface ? I have found that if I land on the hard surface, to avoid a bounce, I do a wheel landing. On the grass, the full stall (3 point landing) is preferred, and has a lot shorter roll out. When I try to full stall 'er on the hard surface, I always get a bounce landing. I much prefer landing on the grass. BTW, I flew yesterday and full throttle level flight I was indicating almost 80 mph, with the adjusted tach reading 2250 rpm. GPS was showing 92 mph. Return trip the GPS was showing a little over 70. Chuck G. I had to squirm around the cockpit to manage the video camera, so I rigged a little string & arm on the video camera, for remote On / Off. It works !! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hayes, Mike" <Mike.Hayes(at)denco.co.uk>
Date: May 11, 2005
Subject: Navigational Assistance Required
Hello Chaps, Two of my mates and I from our local PFA Strut (UK version of EAA Chapter I think) are coming over to Oshkosh, arriving Chicago O'Hare at 1500 on 22 July 05. The plan is simply to hire a car and drive to Oshkosh. Naturally I am trying to persuade them that Brodhead would be an excellent place to visit, as I believe the Pietenpol thing is happening on the weekend of 23/24 July 05, but how feasible would it be? I'm told it is about a 5 hour drive from OHR to Oshkosh, but would Brodhead be a big diversion from track? Any information gratefully received! Regards, Mike Hayes G-BKVO Wearing out the carb heat knob in sunny but cold Herefordshire! This message and any associated files sent by Denco Limited, Delimon Denco Lubrication Limited and Franklin Hodge Industries Limited are confidential, and intended only for the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the IT Helpdesk by telephone immediately on 01432 377305 (UK) or +(44) 1432 377 305 (international) or return it to us by e-mail quoting the name of the sender and the address. Please also be advised that if you have received this email in error and that any disclosure and/or use of the information contained within this email or attachments is strictly prohibited. Any views or opinions expressed in this e-mail are solely those of the sender and do not necessarily represent those of Denco Limited, Delimon Denco Lubrication Limited and Franklin Hodge Industries Limited their divisions and/or subsidiaries, unless otherwise specifically stated. Please note that this e-mail and any attachments have not been encrypted. They may therefore be liable to be compromised. This is an inherent risk in relation to e-mail. Denco Holdings Limited its divisions subsidiaries and divisions of subsidiaries do not, to the extent permitted by law, accept any liability (whether in contract, negligence or otherwise) for any changes made to this e-mail after it has been sent by the original sender, any external compromises of security and/or breaches of confidentiality in relation to transmissions sent by e-mail. We cannot to the extent permitted by law accept any liability (whether in contract, negligence or otherwise) for any damage sustained as a result of any software viruses and it is therefore your responsibility to scan the attachments (if any) and carry out your own virus check before opening any attachments. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Navigational Assistance Required
Date: May 11, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Hi Mike, There will be nothing going on at OSH on the 22nd anyway, so you might as well take in Brodhead. It is an easy drive from Chicago - about 2 hours. Then from Brodhead to Oshkosh is about another 2 hour drive (through lots of cornfields). The only difficulty will be in finding a place to stay at Brodhead. There are no hotels there, so camping is the only real possiblity for staying there. The last time I went I stayed in a hotel in Madison, Wisconsin, which is about 30 minutes north of Brodhead. Hope to see you there Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" -----Original Message----- Hello Chaps, Two of my mates and I from our local PFA Strut (UK version of EAA Chapter I think) are coming over to Oshkosh, arriving Chicago O'Hare at 1500 on 22 July 05. The plan is simply to hire a car and drive to Oshkosh. Naturally I am trying to persuade them that Brodhead would be an excellent place to visit, as I believe the Pietenpol thing is happening on the weekend of 23/24 July 05, but how feasible would it be? I'm told it is about a 5 hour drive from OHR to Oshkosh, but would Brodhead be a big diversion from track? Any information gratefully received! Regards, Mike Hayes G-BKVO Wearing out the carb heat knob in sunny but cold Herefordshire! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Navigational Assistance Required
Date: May 11, 2005
Hi Mike, The diversion is slight but entirely within reason. 2 - 3 hours from O'Hare to Brodhead. 2 hours from Brodhead to Oshkosh. See you there. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis > "Hayes, Mike" > > Hello Chaps, > > Two of my mates and I from our local PFA > Strut (UK version of EAA Chapter I > think) are coming over to Oshkosh, arriving > Chicago O'Hare at 1500 on 22 > July 05. The plan is simply to hire a car > and drive to Oshkosh. > Naturally I am trying to persuade them that > Brodhead would be an excellent > place to visit, as I believe the Pietenpol > thing is happening on the weekend > of 23/24 July 05, but how feasible would it > be? I'm told it is about a 5 > hour drive from OHR to Oshkosh, but would > Brodhead be a big diversion from > track? > Any information gratefully received! > > Regards, > > Mike Hayes > G-BKVO > Wearing out the carb heat knob in sunny but > cold Herefordshire! > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Re: Navigational Assistance Required
Date: May 11, 2005
Mike: I went to Brodhead last year for the first time and I honestly can say I had more fun at Brodhead than I did at Oshcash. The "side-trip" to Brodhead (for me) was well worth the round-trip-drive from Texas. The people who attend and operate Brodhead are a great bunch of folks and the scenery is incredible. For my taste, the event at Oshcash is getting a bit too "corporate" for me and Brodhead is like stepping back into time when people were more easy going, friendly and happy that you made the journey out their way. As a visitor to Oscash since the 1980s, lately it seems like it's being operated by the Hitler Nazi Youth Corp with Homeland Security acting as the SS. Brodhead is laid back and a totally different experience. I was happy to leave my hard-earned dollars in Brodhead and Monroe to a bunch of swell people. I'd recommend spending the night in nearby Monroe while you are at Brodhead, which is a short drive West (and a little south) of Brodhead. I spent a couple of nights there last year in a very clean motel there. I tired to find the name of the motel on the Monroe Chamber of Commerce website, but they don't mention anything about motels. I suspect it's because they have only 3 or so places to stay. If I can recall the name of the motel, I''l post it, but it was operated by a family who lives at the site and they keep their rooms spotless clean. Also, there are several really good places in Monroe to eat. Everything from Pizza to German food. The room rate might be a little less expensive in Monroe for one night than trying to find a place near Oshcash. The merchants in and near Oscash go nuts in the summer and inflate the price of eveything. Down here on the Texas coast, after a hurricane, we put people in jail for price-gouging... but the EAA event at Oshcash isn't an emergency... and the price-hikes are expected and tolerated by many. Rooms near Oshcash are still cheaper than trying to find a place in London (going back there soon for my 25th wedding anniversary!) Cellular phone service is sparse in Brodhead, but they have a pay phone near the picnic tables. Camping at Brodhead is fun and you can find lot's of cool green spots to toss a bag. Look up my buddy Chuck Gantzer if you decide to take a tent to Brodhead. Chuck is an encyclopedia of knowledge when it comes the aircamper and things mechanical, and please feed him a Guiness Stout while you are picking his brain. If and when I get my Aircamper flying in a year or two, my flight-adventure will take to Brodhead as many times as my piggy bank and wife will allow, but I doubt if I'll ever be visiting Oshcash again. Going to Hondo, Texas fly-in (www.swri.org) this week looking for Piet parts... (British) Sterling Brooks Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch 5TA6, San Antonio Sectional ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hayes, Mike" <Mike.Hayes(at)denco.co.uk> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Navigational Assistance Required > > Hello Chaps, > > Two of my mates and I from our local PFA Strut (UK version of EAA Chapter I > think) are coming over to Oshkosh, arriving Chicago O'Hare at 1500 on 22 > July 05. The plan is simply to hire a car and drive to Oshkosh. > Naturally I am trying to persuade them that Brodhead would be an excellent > place to visit, as I believe the Pietenpol thing is happening on the weekend > of 23/24 July 05, but how feasible would it be? I'm told it is about a 5 > hour drive from OHR to Oshkosh, but would Brodhead be a big diversion from > track? > Any information gratefully received! > > Regards, > > Mike Hayes > G-BKVO > Wearing out the carb heat knob in sunny but cold Herefordshire! > -- > This message and any associated files sent by Denco Limited, Delimon Denco > Lubrication Limited and Franklin Hodge Industries Limited are confidential, > and intended only for the addressee named above. If you are not the intended > recipient, please notify the IT Helpdesk by telephone immediately on 01432 > 377305 (UK) or +(44) 1432 377 305 (international) or return it to us by > e-mail quoting the name of the sender and the address. Please also be > advised that if you have received this email in error and that any > disclosure and/or use of the information contained within this email or > attachments is strictly prohibited. > > Any views or opinions expressed in this e-mail are solely those of the > sender and do not necessarily represent those of Denco Limited, Delimon Denco > Lubrication Limited and Franklin Hodge Industries Limited their divisions > and/or subsidiaries, unless otherwise specifically stated. > > Please note that this e-mail and any attachments have not been encrypted. > They may therefore be liable to be compromised. This is an inherent risk > in relation to e-mail. Denco Holdings Limited its divisions subsidiaries > and divisions of subsidiaries do not, to the extent permitted by law, accept > any liability (whether in contract, negligence or otherwise) for any changes > made to this e-mail after it has been sent by the original sender, any > external compromises of security and/or breaches of confidentiality in > relation to transmissions sent by e-mail. > > We cannot to the extent permitted by law accept any liability (whether in > contract, negligence or otherwise) for any damage sustained as a result of > any software viruses and it is therefore your responsibility to scan the > attachments (if any) and carry out your own virus check before opening any > attachments. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 3 foot center section - # of ribs
Date: May 11, 2005
From: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Tom, Do you know the fuel tank capacity with the 3 foot center section? Jack Textor ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 3 foot center section - # of ribs
I am doing the 3 ft. center section also. I count just two full ribs, one at each side, I covered the outside of each with 1/16 ply per Mr. Cuy's recomendation. Bill instructions say to add 1/4 inch plywood on the bottom (with a 12" hole in the middle) which contacts the two ribs (and is gusseted to them), which makes it sound unlikely that more than two full ribs can be used. The 1/4" ply makes it heavier that the standard 1/8" but but who are we to argue a successful, flight proven design? I am going to add two nose ribs, and add a flop later making it actually a four piece wing. Rick H. On 5/10/05, tmbrant1(at)netzero.com wrote: > > tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> > > Hey guys, > > I'm planning on building the 3'-0" center section that Bill Rewey has > suggested for a larger center section tank. I'm working on my wing ribs now > and am wondering how many to make for this design. It looks to me like the > two end ribs are "doubled up". In other words, where the center section and > the wing connect there are 2 ribs on each side. Is that right? If that's the > case do I need 31 ribs?? > > Tom B. > > > -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Monroe Wisc. has motels
m> Mike Hayes--- we've stayed at motels in Monroe, WI which is a neat little city about 11 miles west of Brodhead. They have some decent restaurants too. Had a delicious prime rib there one year. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.com>
Date: May 11, 2005
Subject: Re: 3 foot center section - # of ribs
I guess the two ribs I was talking about is one on the center section and then 1 on the wing - making two per side. I think we still need 30 ribs now that I look at it again. 2 middle ribs are removed for tank and just the nose section provided. Anyone confirm it's 30 ribs? Tom B. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: 3 foot center section
Date: May 11, 2005
Rick, Maybe I misunderstood what you wrote, or maybe I missed something, but as I remember "Mr. Cuy's" video, he recommends adding a two-inch wide strip of plywood to the butt ribs when building the three-piece wing, to prevent the fabric from pulling the capstrips sideways. That strip follows the profile of the rib, top and bottom. I don't recall a recommendation to cover the outside of each end rib. The strips (as Mike recommends), are shown in Vi Kapler's three-piece wing plans as supplied by Don Pietenpol. I have seen photos of wings built to the UK Pietenpol plans, and they do show the butt ribs with a plywood skin, but that probably has something to do with the aileron quick-disconnect feature, and the increased likelihood of taking the wings apart regularly. Maybe I need to watch the video again. That videotape is going to wear out soon! Ever thought of transferring the video to DVD, Mike? Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3 foot center section - # of ribs I am doing the 3 ft. center section also. I count just two full ribs, one at each side, I covered the outside of each with 1/16 ply per Mr. Cuy's recomendation.... Rick H. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Greg Cardinal update
Date: May 11, 2005
Mike, Thanks for asking. The FAA has told the DAR to go ahead with the final inspection. The inspection will hopefully be completed within a week or two. We'll have to do some serious flying to make it to Brodhead this year but it is still within reach. Note to list- do NOT attempt to register your Pietenpol as a motor-glider........ Greg Cardinal Ready to thermal in Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Greg Cardinal update > Michael D Cuy > > Greg-- how's your plane doing ? Will we > see you and your partner at Brodhead. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2005
Subject: Re: 3 foot center section - # of ribs
In a message dated 5/11/2005 12:49:14 PM Central Standard Time, tmbrant1(at)netzero.com writes: Anyone confirm it's 30 ribs? Tom, You should build at least one extra rib for a wall hanging. They look better than a prop !! Wouldn't hurt to build 2 extra ribs, and use the best ones in the wing. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: 3 foot center section - # of ribs
Date: May 11, 2005
Jack I did a quick calculation on this. If a tank is 28"x35"x4.5" that will come to 19.14 gal. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3 foot center section - # of ribs > > > Tom, > Do you know the fuel tank capacity with the 3 foot center section? > Jack Textor > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Ribs etc.
Date: May 11, 2005
Mike Don't feel guilty about buying parts. The steel fittings, they take a lot of time to make. I bought all of the fittings first time around. Now I'm finding how difficult they are. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Green To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 10:45 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ribs etc. Has anyone had any dealings with Design 52 Studio? A friend building a Flybaby sent me the link below, he got a lot of his 4130 fittings from this guy and from what I saw on the weekend, they look great. I was thinking of getting the 3 piece wing rib set from him (haven't got a price back as yet). I know, I know,....I should be building them myself but if it gets me in the air any sooner, I'm all for it. Any feed back would be greatly appreciated. Here's the link - http://www.design52studio.com/index2.htm Mike Green Romsey, Victoria, Australia VH-MNM (Reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
<004101c556a0$ac961440$0700a8c0@DICKLAPTOP>
Subject: Re: 3 foot center section - # of ribs
Date: May 11, 2005
The Pietenpol I bought in Mineral Bluff, Georgia 2 years ago had a centersection tank. It fully encompassed the void in the centersection and it held 11 gallons (when it wasn't leaking...) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3 foot center section - # of ribs > > Jack > I did a quick calculation on this. If a tank is 28"x35"x4.5" that will come > to 19.14 gal. > Dick N. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:31 AM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3 foot center section - # of ribs > > > > > > > > Tom, > > Do you know the fuel tank capacity with the 3 foot center section? > > Jack Textor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Steve's trip--tell us more !
Date: May 11, 2005
Here it is finally. The last few weeks have been extraordinarily busy, so it took me a while to finish this. Sorry if it is too wordy, I basically just puked it onto a page when I had time. Hope some of you enjoy it. http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/2005AprilPietTrip/ TACO guys, the next four weekends are packed for me (I'm in two weddings, and I'm moving). Very soon though, we should all get together. In June for sure! Steve Ruse - Coppell, TX N6383J - KGYI -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steve's trip--tell us more ! Steve-- that is great that you got the plane. Tell us how your x-country was and how she flies !!!!!! Mike C. -- -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Steve's trip--tell us more !
Date: May 11, 2005
OUTSTANDING!!!!! I LOVE IT! Gave me a moderate dose of motivation! I need those whenever I can grab them. Thanks for sharing!!! What makes this story mean a little more to me than others is I have seen this bird, sat in it, closed my eyes and let my imagination take me on a flight around the patch.... you got to do it for real ;) many thanks for the story DJ Vegh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steve's trip--tell us more ! > > > Here it is finally. The last few weeks have been extraordinarily busy, so > it took me a while to finish this. Sorry if it is too wordy, I basically > just puked it onto a page when I had time. Hope some of you enjoy it. > > http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/2005AprilPietTrip/ > > TACO guys, the next four weekends are packed for me (I'm in two weddings, > and I'm moving). Very soon though, we should all get together. In June > for > sure! > > Steve Ruse - Coppell, TX > N6383J - KGYI > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael D > Cuy > Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 4:21 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steve's trip--tell us more ! > > > > > Steve-- that is great that you got the plane. Tell us how your x-country > was and how she flies !!!!!! > > Mike C. > > > -- > > -- > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 3 foot center section - # of ribs
I made 30 ribs, 24 inside ribs, 4 butt ribs (extra vertical brace and 1/16" ply on one side) and 2 tip ribs (extra vertical brace). Could be wrong though, I have not yet finished my wings. On 5/11/05, tmbrant1(at)netzero.com wrote: > > tmbrant1(at)netzero.com> > > I guess the two ribs I was talking about is one on the center section and > then 1 on the wing - making two per side. I think we still need 30 ribs now > that I look at it again. 2 middle ribs are removed for tank and just the > nose section provided. > > Anyone confirm it's 30 ribs? > > Tom B. > > > -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: what a crock this is
The FAA is underscoring regulatory requirements for pilots who fly passengers in homebuilt aircraft. A new notice would restrict them to flying passengers only in planes in which they are qualified and experienced. Currency and proficiency rules apply to those who take people for rides in their experimental aircraft and EAA says current pilots have until Aug. 31, 2005, to prove they have the necessary category and class ratings for the aircraft they fly. Those who always fly solo will not need to fly through the bureaucratic hoops. Under the new notice, which was issued April 21, affected pilots will have fill out a form and make sure their recreational or higher certificate is in order. Flying passengers requires that the pilot have at least five hours as PIC in the category, class, make and model of the experimental aircraft in question between Sept. 1, 2004, and Aug. 31, 2005. An authorized flight instructor must make a logbook entry attesting to the pilot's proficiency with the aircraft and then the pilot must show the log to a designated pilot examiner or FAA Operations Inspector. A new pilot certificate will then be issued restricting the pilot to flying that particular experimental aircraft (or any others for which he or she has done the paperwork). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: what a crock this is
Date: May 12, 2005
so I'll need a CFI endorsement and signed paperwork from the feds to take passengers up in my Aircamper?!??? nonsense! DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 7:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is The FAA is underscoring regulatory requirements for pilots who fly passengers in homebuilt aircraft. A new notice would restrict them to flying passengers only in planes in which they are qualified and experienced. Currency and proficiency rules apply to those who take people for rides in their experimental aircraft and EAA says current pilots have until Aug. 31, 2005, to prove they have the necessary category and class ratings for the aircraft they fly. Those who always fly solo will not need to fly through the bureaucratic hoops. Under the new notice, which was issued April 21, affected pilots will have fill out a form and make sure their recreational or higher certificate is in order. Flying passengers requires that the pilot have at least five hours as PIC in the category, class, make and model of the experimental aircraft in question between Sept. 1, 2004, and Aug. 31, 2005. An authorized flight instructor must make a logbook entry attesting to the pilot's proficiency with the aircraft and then the pilot must show the log to a designated pilot examiner or FAA Operations Inspector. A new pilot certificate will then be issued restricting the pilot to flying that particular experimental aircraft (or any others for which he or she has done the paperwork). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: what a crock this is
Date: May 12, 2005
This thread about FAA regs changes had passed thru the canardian user group I'm a member of a few days ago. General thrust----It affects very few homebuilders. This new reg was and is designed to close a loophole that allowed experimental airplanes that are unique, ie. twin engine or seaplanes (like my Osprey) to be flown with passengers without the PIC having any instructor endorsement in they're logbooks or the required rating, ie. taking up passengers in your Piete without a taildragger rating. As the prior reg was written, it was ok for an experimental PIC to take up a passenger in his or her niffty new homebuilt twin without any instruction or testing. The new understanding of the closed loophole is an experimental PIC can still take their twin engine or seaplane aircraft for a little cruise without the rating in their logbooks but they just cannot take passengers. There is some website of the EAA's in Oshcash WI, that helps clarifies this proposed FAA change, but since I'm protesting the the crass commericalization of the EAA and refused to renew my membership a couple years ago, I cannot access the website. What I'm reporting here is what was posted and discusssed ad nauseum on another user group. Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska Cozy IV N64CY Osprey II N64SY Pietenpol N-1033B " But such is the constitution of my mind I cannot avoid forming an opinion", John Adams ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 6:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is The FAA is underscoring regulatory requirements for pilots who fly passengers in homebuilt aircraft. A new notice would restrict them to flying passengers only in planes in which they are qualified and experienced. Currency and proficiency rules apply to those who take people for rides in their experimental aircraft and EAA says current pilots have until Aug. 31, 2005, to prove they have the necessary category and class ratings for the aircraft they fly. Those who always fly solo will not need to fly through the bureaucratic hoops. Under the new notice, which was issued April 21, affected pilots will have fill out a form and make sure their recreational or higher certificate is in order. Flying passengers requires that the pilot have at least five hours as PIC in the category, class, make and model of the experimental aircraft in question between Sept. 1, 2004, and Aug. 31, 2005. An authorized flight instructor must make a logbook entry attesting to the pilot's proficiency with the aircraft and then the pilot must show the log to a designated pilot examiner or FAA Operations Inspector. A new pilot certificate will then be issued restricting the pilot to flying that particular experimental aircraft (or any others for which he or she has done the paperwork). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2005
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: what a crock this is
DNA: do not archive Its-Bogus: do not forward to list --- MIME Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting. NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be informed of the potential problem with their system as soon as possible. --- MIME Errors --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.com>
Date: May 12, 2005
Subject: Re: 3 foot center section - # of ribs
Very nice Jon... I won't tell your wife but mine will get a kick out of this. We all address our planes as female anyway right... She won't start.. She just didn't want to lift off in that tailwind... She flies like a homesick angel.. Tom B. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Re: what a crock this is
Date: May 12, 2005
DJ, don't worry. My soon to be 86 year old dad has an A&P license, commercial ticket, multi-engine, instrument rating, CFI, CFII, 6 type ratings and 26,000+ hours in flights all over the world in more than 53 types of airplanes. He'll fix your logbook next time we are in Arizona, unless the feds outlaw experienced gray haired old timers. ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:14 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is so I'll need a CFI endorsement and signed paperwork from the feds to take passengers up in my Aircamper?!??? nonsense! DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 7:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is The FAA is underscoring regulatory requirements for pilots who fly passengers in homebuilt aircraft. A new notice would restrict them to flying passengers only in planes in which they are qualified and experienced. Currency and proficiency rules apply to those who take people for rides in their experimental aircraft and EAA says current pilots have until Aug. 31, 2005, to prove they have the necessary category and class ratings for the aircraft they fly. Those who always fly solo will not need to fly through the bureaucratic hoops. Under the new notice, which was issued April 21, affected pilots will have fill out a form and make sure their recreational or higher certificate is in order. Flying passengers requires that the pilot have at least five hours as PIC in the category, class, make and model of the experimental aircraft in question between Sept. 1, 2004, and Aug. 31, 2005. An authorized flight instructor must make a logbook entry attesting to the pilot's proficiency with the aircraft and then the pilot must show the log to a designated pilot examiner or FAA Operations Inspector. A new pilot certificate will then be issued restricting the pilot to flying that particular experimental aircraft (or any others for which he or she has done the paperwork). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Oshkosh observations
Guys-- I know this subject brings up many different opinions and I've had my "moments" with my disappointment in the way EAA has gone, but I took a fresh approach last year to the whole convention and it made me step back and think about my frustrations a bit more. I don't like the commercialization any more than the rest of you, but if you approach it with a good attitude, you can absorb all the good and defect the bad. I realized that not going to Oshkosh or pulling my membership wasn't going to hurt anyone but me.....EAA won't miss me or send me a birthday card if I never go again so why be a martyr I thought. I went last year and enjoyed the workshops where you can still get free hands-on training in metal work, gas welding, fabric work, wood work, rib stitching, and more. I enjoyed smelling the fresh leather in homebuilts that were so far above my price range that I couldn't afford the instrument panel, let alone the engine and airframe.....but I still reveled in the thought that this 'kit' could out-run anything that Cessna or Piper would ever put out, and cost less. I enjoyed sitting under a tree having an ice cream cone, I enjoyed the $35 a night quiet dorm room in Ripon, WI where I could watch the planes flying overhead on the approach in the morning or after the airshow, I could browse and try on 20 different headsets or gps's or hand-helds....I could get suppliers catalogs from Wicks and ACS, I could check out biplanes and antiques and talk with owners if I wanted, I could go to eve. programs at Theater in the Woods, I could get cool in the a/c of the museum, I could sit wayyyy over in the warbird area and get to see and hear about 20 P-51 Mustangs crank up, start, and then taxi out for the afternoon airwshow, I could enjoy listening to the chatter on my handheld, I could go join with friends at a campfire in Camp Schoeller, I could walk around fighter jets, cargo planes, and more. There were vendors of little turbine engines, hear a Kitfox fly with a new Australian Rotec radial engine (the kind that our Dick N. has in his new Piet) check out seat cushions, new kits, ways to weld pop cans to pop cans (along with a great ginsu knife guy that was hilarious) and more. I think it cost me $26 to get in every day. Go to a football game or baseball game.....go to the nearest Cedar Point, Kings Island, or Great America park and it will cost you about the same or more. I don't like the commercialization anymore than the rest of you, but Oshkosh is still the greatest game around...and I won't stop going because a ton of the things that we liked before are STILL there today. Not all of it, but quite a bit. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)AOL.COM
Date: May 12, 2005
Subject: X-Country, Brodhead
Many thanks for the article and pics, Steve R.! Fantastic! Also, for our English friends flying into O'Hare, there are plenty of hotel/motel rooms at Beloit and Janesville which are on your route between O'Hare and Oshkosh. Those two cities are about 20 miles or so to the east of Brodhead -- you'll seem 'em on the map. Fred B. (Piet fuselage all framed up and now working on metal parts. Ribs are done -- okay, I cheated -- thanks to Charlie Rubecks. Will post some pics one of these days.) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2005
From: Mark <aerialphotos(at)dp.net>
Subject: Re: what a crock this is
I called the EAA this morning about this very topic and the press releases are very miss leading. Category and class ratings in the us were not required for experimental airplanes. The way the EAA advisor explained this to me on the phone is that it only applies if you do not have the proper category and class on your pilot certificate. In my case I have no seaplane ratings. Under the old rules there was nothing wrong with flying passengers and landing on the water in an experimental. That is no longer the case. I can still do it myself but if I want to carry passengers in that experimental I have to either get the proper category and class ratings, or jump through the hoops described. The way I read the annoucements was that it made it sound like every homebuilt was essentially a type rating. Gordon Bowen wrote: > This thread about FAA regs changes had passed thru the canardian user > group I'm a member of a few days ago. General thrust----It affects > very few homebuilders. This new reg was and is designed to close a > loophole that allowed experimental airplanes that are unique, ie. twin > engine or seaplanes (like my Osprey) to be flown with passengers > without the PIC having any instructor endorsement in they're logbooks > or the required rating, ie. taking up passengers in your Piete without > a taildragger rating. As the prior reg was written, it was ok for an > experimental PIC to take up a passenger in his or her niffty new > homebuilt twin without any instruction or testing. The new > understanding of the closed loophole is an experimental PIC can still > take their twin engine or seaplane aircraft for a little cruise > without the rating in their logbooks but they just cannot take > passengers. There is some website of the EAA's in Oshcash WI, that > helps clarifies this proposed FAA change, but since I'm protesting the > the crass commericalization of the EAA and refused to renew my > membership a couple years ago, I cannot access the website. What I'm > reporting here is what was posted and discusssed ad nauseum on another > user group. > Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska > Cozy IV N64CY > Osprey II N64SY > Pietenpol N-1033B > " But such is the constitution of my mind I cannot avoid forming an > opinion", John Adams > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Michael D Cuy > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > *Sent:* Thursday, May 12, 2005 6:23 AM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is > > > The FAA is underscoring regulatory requirements for pilots who fly > passengers in homebuilt aircraft. A new notice would restrict them > to flying passengers only in planes in which they are qualified > and experienced. Currency and proficiency rules apply to those who > take people for rides in their experimental aircraft and EAA says > current pilots have until Aug. 31, 2005, to prove they have the > necessary category and class ratings for the aircraft they fly. > Those who always fly solo will not need to fly through the > bureaucratic hoops. Under the new notice, which was issued April > 21, affected pilots will have fill out a form and make sure their > recreational or higher certificate is in order. Flying passengers > requires that the pilot have at least five hours as PIC in the > category, class, make and model of the experimental aircraft in > question between Sept. 1, 2004, and Aug. 31, 2005. An authorized > flight instructor must make a logbook entry attesting to the > pilot's proficiency with the aircraft and then the pilot must show > the log to a designated pilot examiner or FAA Operations > Inspector. A new pilot certificate will then be issued restricting > the pilot to flying that particular experimental aircraft (or any > others for which he or she has done the paperwork). > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: I think this is a NPR
I think this new FAA thing about passengers in homebuilts is a notice of proposed rulemaking......not super clear on that though. It was on AvWeb. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Oshkosh observations
Date: May 12, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Good post, Mike. I was dissappointed the last time I went to Brodhead at all the growsing and bad mouthing of the EAA that a lot of the Piet community at Brodhead was doing. Has the EAA gotten too commercial? Absolutely. Do they still give the ONLY support to homebuilders worldwide? Yes. I'll bet half the people growsing at Brodhead had a whole shelf full of EAA publications, ranging from Tony Bingelis books to EAA's Wood Aircraft Book". There's a lot that has changed about the EAA, but let's face it - the whole world changes and you must either change with it or become irrelevant. At least EAA is trying to keep young people coming in. I don't like all the corprate sponsorship at OSH, but if it keeps prices down, bring 'em on. As you pointed out, it's still quite a bargain. Jack PhillipsSubject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations Guys-- I know this subject brings up many different opinions and I've had my "moments" with my disappointment in the way EAA has gone, but I took a fresh approach last year to the whole convention and it made me step back and think about my frustrations a bit more. I don't like the commercialization any more than the rest of you, but if you approach it with a good attitude, you can absorb all the good and defect the bad. I realized that not going to Oshkosh or pulling my membership wasn't going to hurt anyone but me.....EAA won't miss me or send me a birthday card if I never go again so why be a martyr I thought. I went last year and enjoyed the workshops where you can still get free hands-on training in metal work, gas welding, fabric work, wood work, rib stitching, and more. I enjoyed smelling the fresh leather in homebuilts that were so far above my price range that I couldn't afford the instrument panel, let alone the engine and airframe.....but I still reveled in the thought that this 'kit' could out-run anything that Cessna or Piper would ever put out, and cost less. I enjoyed sitting under a tree having an ice cream cone, I enjoyed the $35 a night quiet dorm room in Ripon, WI where I could watch the planes flying overhead on the approach in the morning or after the airshow, I could browse and try on 20 different headsets or gps's or hand-helds....I could get suppliers catalogs from Wicks and ACS, I could check out biplanes and antiques and talk with owners if I wanted, I could go to eve. programs at Theater in the Woods, I could get cool in the a/c of the museum, I could sit wayyyy over in the warbird area and get to see and hear about 20 P-51 Mustangs crank up, start, and then taxi out for the afternoon airwshow, I could enjoy listening to the chatter on my handheld, I could go join with friends at a campfire in Camp Schoeller, I could walk around fighter jets, cargo planes, and more. There were vendors of little turbine engines, hear a Kitfox fly with a new Australian Rotec radial engine (the kind that our Dick N. has in his new Piet) check out seat cushions, new kits, ways to weld pop cans to pop cans (along with a great ginsu knife guy that was hilarious) and more. I think it cost me $26 to get in every day. Go to a football game or baseball game.....go to the nearest Cedar Point, Kings Island, or Great America park and it will cost you about the same or more. I don't like the commercialization anymore than the rest of you, but Oshkosh is still the greatest game around...and I won't stop going because a ton of the things that we liked before are STILL there today. Not all of it, but quite a bit. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Stapelberg" <norshel(at)mweb.co.za>
Subject: RE: 0-235
Date: May 12, 2005
Went flying in the plane yesterday and WOW what a difference, with the new exhaust it is a lot quieter and I now get 2400 Rpm in the climb. Norman ZS-VJA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: what a crock this is
<003801c55710$397613a0$39a470d1@defaultcomp> <42839CE7.7030700(at)dp.net> Mark, This sound more reasonable to me. Hope this is the case. Guess before if a new pilot , earning his private in a Cessna 150, builds a high perfomance taildragger, and wants to give rides, it IS a receipe for disaster. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark" <aerialphotos(at)dp.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is > > I called the EAA this morning about this very topic and the press > releases are very miss leading. Category and class ratings in the us > were not required for experimental airplanes. The way the EAA advisor > explained this to me on the phone is that it only applies if you do not > have the proper category and class on your pilot certificate. In my > case I have no seaplane ratings. Under the old rules there was nothing > wrong with flying passengers and landing on the water in an > experimental. That is no longer the case. I can still do it myself but > if I want to carry passengers in that experimental I have to either get > the proper category and class ratings, or jump through the hoops > described. The way I read the annoucements was that it made it sound > like every homebuilt was essentially a type rating. > > Gordon Bowen wrote: > > > This thread about FAA regs changes had passed thru the canardian user > > group I'm a member of a few days ago. General thrust----It affects > > very few homebuilders. This new reg was and is designed to close a > > loophole that allowed experimental airplanes that are unique, ie. twin > > engine or seaplanes (like my Osprey) to be flown with passengers > > without the PIC having any instructor endorsement in they're logbooks > > or the required rating, ie. taking up passengers in your Piete without > > a taildragger rating. As the prior reg was written, it was ok for an > > experimental PIC to take up a passenger in his or her niffty new > > homebuilt twin without any instruction or testing. The new > > understanding of the closed loophole is an experimental PIC can still > > take their twin engine or seaplane aircraft for a little cruise > > without the rating in their logbooks but they just cannot take > > passengers. There is some website of the EAA's in Oshcash WI, that > > helps clarifies this proposed FAA change, but since I'm protesting the > > the crass commericalization of the EAA and refused to renew my > > membership a couple years ago, I cannot access the website. What I'm > > reporting here is what was posted and discusssed ad nauseum on another > > user group. > > Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska > > Cozy IV N64CY > > Osprey II N64SY > > Pietenpol N-1033B > > " But such is the constitution of my mind I cannot avoid forming an > > opinion", John Adams > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Michael D Cuy > > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > > *Sent:* Thursday, May 12, 2005 6:23 AM > > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is > > > > > > The FAA is underscoring regulatory requirements for pilots who fly > > passengers in homebuilt aircraft. A new notice would restrict them > > to flying passengers only in planes in which they are qualified > > and experienced. Currency and proficiency rules apply to those who > > take people for rides in their experimental aircraft and EAA says > > current pilots have until Aug. 31, 2005, to prove they have the > > necessary category and class ratings for the aircraft they fly. > > Those who always fly solo will not need to fly through the > > bureaucratic hoops. Under the new notice, which was issued April > > 21, affected pilots will have fill out a form and make sure their > > recreational or higher certificate is in order. Flying passengers > > requires that the pilot have at least five hours as PIC in the > > category, class, make and model of the experimental aircraft in > > question between Sept. 1, 2004, and Aug. 31, 2005. An authorized > > flight instructor must make a logbook entry attesting to the > > pilot's proficiency with the aircraft and then the pilot must show > > the log to a designated pilot examiner or FAA Operations > > Inspector. A new pilot certificate will then be issued restricting > > the pilot to flying that particular experimental aircraft (or any > > others for which he or she has done the paperwork). > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh observations
<5.1.1.5.2.20050512134324.021d7de0(at)popserve.grc.nasa.gov> Mike, I've never met you, but I know I'd like you. I like how think. Ain't life Grand! walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations > > Guys-- I know this subject brings up many different opinions and I've had <<<<<<>>>> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh observations
5.2.20050512134324.021d7de0(at)popserve.grc.nasa.gov> THANKS, Walt ! Life is grand too---it's just a matter of attitude ! Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805(at)msn.com>
Subject: Oshkosh observations
Date: May 12, 2005
Wow, what a great post. I think I'm gonna go home and watch my NX48MC video tonight as a tribute! Mike, with a little work you could easily turn that into an "Ode to Oshkosh" poem or something that would have a bunch of guys crying like chicks at a Steel Magnolias movie. Seriously though you made some really great points and I feel the EAA really does, for the most part, fight for protecting our rights to do this pilot stuff. Eric >From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations >Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 13:56:51 -0400 > > > >Guys-- I know this subject brings up many different opinions and I've had >my "moments" with my disappointment in the way EAA has >gone, but I took a fresh approach last year to the whole convention and it >made me step back and think about my frustrations a bit more. > >I don't like the commercialization any more than the rest of you, but if >you approach it with a good attitude, you can absorb all the good and >defect the bad. I realized that not going to Oshkosh or pulling my >membership wasn't going to hurt anyone but me.....EAA won't miss me >or send me a birthday card if I never go again so why be a martyr I >thought. I went last year and enjoyed the workshops where you can still >get free hands-on training in metal work, gas welding, fabric work, wood >work, rib stitching, and more. I enjoyed smelling the fresh leather in >homebuilts that were so far above my price range that I couldn't afford the >instrument panel, let alone the engine and airframe.....but I still >reveled in the thought that this 'kit' could out-run anything that Cessna >or Piper would ever put out, and cost less. I enjoyed sitting under >a tree having an ice cream cone, I enjoyed the $35 a night quiet dorm room >in Ripon, WI where I could watch the planes flying overhead >on the approach in the morning or after the airshow, I could browse and >try on 20 different headsets or gps's or hand-helds....I could get >suppliers catalogs from Wicks and ACS, I could check out biplanes and >antiques and talk with owners if I wanted, I could go to eve. programs >at Theater in the Woods, I could get cool in the a/c of the museum, I could >sit wayyyy over in the warbird area and get to see and hear >about 20 P-51 Mustangs crank up, start, and then taxi out for the afternoon >airwshow, I could enjoy listening to the chatter on my handheld, >I could go join with friends at a campfire in Camp Schoeller, I could walk >around fighter jets, cargo planes, and more. There were vendors >of little turbine engines, hear a Kitfox fly with a new Australian Rotec >radial engine (the kind that our Dick N. has in his new Piet) check out >seat cushions, new kits, ways to weld pop cans to pop cans (along with a >great ginsu knife guy that was hilarious) and more. >I think it cost me $26 to get in every day. Go to a football game or >baseball game.....go to the nearest Cedar Point, Kings Island, or Great >America park and it will cost you about the same or more. I don't like >the commercialization anymore than the rest of you, but Oshkosh is >still the greatest game around...and I won't stop going because a ton of >the things that we liked before are STILL there today. Not all of it, but >quite a bit. > >Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2005
From: Mark <aerialphotos(at)dp.net>
Subject: Re: what a crock this is
<42839CE7.7030700(at)dp.net> <002a01c5572f$0a07a600$2cc5fea9@home> walt evans wrote: > >Mark, >This sound more reasonable to me. Hope this is the case. > Guess before if a new pilot , earning his private in a Cessna 150, builds >a high perfomance taildragger, and wants to give rides, it IS a receipe for >disaster. >walt evans >NX140DL >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mark" <aerialphotos(at)dp.net> >To: >Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 1:13 PM >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is > > > > Actually it could be even worse than that. I know of people flying things like gyroplanes around that had no rotorcraft training. It gives them a way to get legal without the huge expense of a rotorcraft ticket. Single engine pilots could fly twin engine experimentals with no multi engine training. Same with seaplanes though for all practical purposes a ratings would be a better choice in both cases.. Interestingly enough your 150 in the hot homebuilt really isn't the target here. Both are single engine land airplanes. A checkout in a Cub and a checkout in a 172 RG and they would easily be legal, but maybe not ready. I am just repeating what I was told and really haven't seen the fine print myself yet, but this at least makes some sense. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jansam(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Oshkosh observations
Date: May 12, 2005
Well said Mike. I agree about Oshkosh becoming too comercialized, but what other organization has the clout in Washington to look out for the little guy in aviation? Unless something better comes along, I'm sticking with the EAA. Sam NX115SM (reserved number) > > Guys-- I know this subject brings up many different opinions and I've had > my "moments" with my disappointment in the way EAA has > gone, but I took a fresh approach last year to the whole convention and it > made me step back and think about my frustrations a bit more. > > I don't like the commercialization any more than the rest of you, but if > you approach it with a good attitude, you can absorb all the good and > defect the bad. I realized that not going to Oshkosh or pulling my > membership wasn't going to hurt anyone but me.....EAA won't miss me > or send me a birthday card if I never go again so why be a martyr I > thought. I went last year and enjoyed the workshops where you can still > get free hands-on training in metal work, gas welding, fabric work, wood > work, rib stitching, and more. I enjoyed smelling the fresh leather in > homebuilts that were so far above my price range that I couldn't afford the > instrument panel, let alone the engine and airframe.....but I still > reveled in the thought that this 'kit' could out-run anything that Cessna > or Piper would ever put out, and cost less. I enjoyed sitting under > a tree having an ice cream cone, I enjoyed the $35 a night quiet dorm room > in Ripon, WI where I could watch the planes flying overhead > on the approach in the morning or after the airshow, I could browse and > try on 20 different headsets or gps's or hand-helds....I could get > suppliers catalogs from Wicks and ACS, I could check out biplanes and > antiques and talk with owners if I wanted, I could go to eve. programs > at Theater in the Woods, I could get cool in the a/c of the museum, I could > sit wayyyy over in the warbird area and get to see and hear > about 20 P-51 Mustangs crank up, start, and then taxi out for the afternoon > airwshow, I could enjoy listening to the chatter on my handheld, > I could go join with friends at a campfire in Camp Schoeller, I could walk > around fighter jets, cargo planes, and more. There were vendors > of little turbine engines, hear a Kitfox fly with a new Australian Rotec > radial engine (the kind that our Dick N. has in his new Piet) check out > seat cushions, new kits, ways to weld pop cans to pop cans (along with a > great ginsu knife guy that was hilarious) and more. > I think it cost me $26 to get in every day. Go to a football game or > baseball game.....go to the nearest Cedar Point, Kings Island, or Great > America park and it will cost you about the same or more. I don't like > the commercialization anymore than the rest of you, but Oshkosh is > still the greatest game around...and I won't stop going because a ton of > the things that we liked before are STILL there today. Not all of it, but > quite a bit. > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: WOW! - new GN-1 plans available
Date: May 12, 2005
I've been talking with RJ Grega over the past several months consulting him on areas on the GN-1 plans that need changing or improvement. He's been working with a CAD drafter and has released the revised plans. He just sent me a complimentary set today and I must say... WOW! these are nice! all CAD drawn and printed on 24x36 paper. SO much easier to read than the old hand drawn 11x17 plans. Many discrepancies have been corrected and certain areas have been improved. Even though most of you are building Piets I would still suggest buying these new GN-1 plans if you can spare the $75. They are great to have around just to look at or get ideas from. no... Mr. Grega is not paying me to advertise for him... I just wanted to let you all know that a great set of easy to read and clearly drawn plans is just an email away. here's his site http://www.gregagn-1.com DJ Vegh www.imagedv.com/aircamper N74DV Mesa, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh observations
Date: May 12, 2005
My gripe a few days ago about Oshkosh was directed not at the EAA in general, but the attitude the Oshkosh experience has been for me in recent years. I still enjoy Sun-N-Fun and the Southest Regional Fly In, but when my dad and I drove thousands of miles in a gas guzzling motorhome (hauling his personal mobility vehicle with a Texas Handicap Tag) EAA at Oshcash would not allow him to use it BUT THEY WERE HAPPY TO RENT HIM ON OF THEIR MACHINES AT $50 PER DAY. We planned on spending 5 days there, but hauled it back to Texas after one day, his newly purchased handicap machine on the bumper... I have three other reasons I think the Management at EAA in Oshcash is not customer focused, but I'll not eat up bandwidth. They have changed a lot in the last 10 years (as they should) but not all of it is for the better. Sterling Brooks (Turned in my EAA card 2 months ago... Keeping the AOPA card, never leave home without it...) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations > > Guys-- I know this subject brings up many different opinions and I've had > my "moments" with my disappointment in the way EAA has > gone, but I took a fresh approach last year to the whole convention and it > made me step back and think about my frustrations a bit more. > > I don't like the commercialization any more than the rest of you, but if > you approach it with a good attitude, you can absorb all the good and > defect the bad. I realized that not going to Oshkosh or pulling my > membership wasn't going to hurt anyone but me.....EAA won't miss me > or send me a birthday card if I never go again so why be a martyr I > thought. I went last year and enjoyed the workshops where you can still > get free hands-on training in metal work, gas welding, fabric work, wood > work, rib stitching, and more. I enjoyed smelling the fresh leather in > homebuilts that were so far above my price range that I couldn't afford the > instrument panel, let alone the engine and airframe.....but I still > reveled in the thought that this 'kit' could out-run anything that Cessna > or Piper would ever put out, and cost less. I enjoyed sitting under > a tree having an ice cream cone, I enjoyed the $35 a night quiet dorm room > in Ripon, WI where I could watch the planes flying overhead > on the approach in the morning or after the airshow, I could browse and > try on 20 different headsets or gps's or hand-helds....I could get > suppliers catalogs from Wicks and ACS, I could check out biplanes and > antiques and talk with owners if I wanted, I could go to eve. programs > at Theater in the Woods, I could get cool in the a/c of the museum, I could > sit wayyyy over in the warbird area and get to see and hear > about 20 P-51 Mustangs crank up, start, and then taxi out for the afternoon > airwshow, I could enjoy listening to the chatter on my handheld, > I could go join with friends at a campfire in Camp Schoeller, I could walk > around fighter jets, cargo planes, and more. There were vendors > of little turbine engines, hear a Kitfox fly with a new Australian Rotec > radial engine (the kind that our Dick N. has in his new Piet) check out > seat cushions, new kits, ways to weld pop cans to pop cans (along with a > great ginsu knife guy that was hilarious) and more. > I think it cost me $26 to get in every day. Go to a football game or > baseball game.....go to the nearest Cedar Point, Kings Island, or Great > America park and it will cost you about the same or more. I don't like > the commercialization anymore than the rest of you, but Oshkosh is > still the greatest game around...and I won't stop going because a ton of > the things that we liked before are STILL there today. Not all of it, but > quite a bit. > > Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
<001b01c55745$137f58c0$9865fea9@Sterling>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh observations
Date: May 12, 2005
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations > > My gripe a few days ago about Oshkosh was directed not at the EAA in > general, but the attitude the Oshkosh experience has been for me in recent > years. I still enjoy Sun-N-Fun and the Southest Regional Fly In, but when my > dad and I drove thousands of miles in a gas guzzling motorhome (hauling his > personal mobility vehicle with a Texas Handicap Tag) EAA at Oshcash would > not allow him to use it BUT THEY WERE HAPPY TO RENT HIM ON OF THEIR MACHINES > AT $50 PER DAY. We planned on spending 5 days there, but hauled it back to > Texas after one day, his newly purchased handicap machine on the bumper... > > I have three other reasons I think the Management at EAA in Oshcash is not > customer focused, but I'll not eat up bandwidth. They have changed a lot in > the last 10 years (as they should) but not all of it is for the better. > > Sterling Brooks > (Turned in my EAA card 2 months ago... Keeping the AOPA card, never leave > home without it...) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 12:56 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations > > > > > > > Guys-- I know this subject brings up many different opinions and I've had > > my "moments" with my disappointment in the way EAA has > > gone, but I took a fresh approach last year to the whole convention and it > > made me step back and think about my frustrations a bit more. > > > > I don't like the commercialization any more than the rest of you, but if > > you approach it with a good attitude, you can absorb all the good and > > defect the bad. I realized that not going to Oshkosh or pulling my > > membership wasn't going to hurt anyone but me.....EAA won't miss me > > or send me a birthday card if I never go again so why be a martyr I > > thought. I went last year and enjoyed the workshops where you can still > > get free hands-on training in metal work, gas welding, fabric work, wood > > work, rib stitching, and more. I enjoyed smelling the fresh leather in > > homebuilts that were so far above my price range that I couldn't afford > the > > instrument panel, let alone the engine and airframe.....but I still > > reveled in the thought that this 'kit' could out-run anything that Cessna > > or Piper would ever put out, and cost less. I enjoyed sitting under > > a tree having an ice cream cone, I enjoyed the $35 a night quiet dorm room > > in Ripon, WI where I could watch the planes flying overhead > > on the approach in the morning or after the airshow, I could browse and > > try on 20 different headsets or gps's or hand-helds....I could get > > suppliers catalogs from Wicks and ACS, I could check out biplanes and > > antiques and talk with owners if I wanted, I could go to eve. programs > > at Theater in the Woods, I could get cool in the a/c of the museum, I > could > > sit wayyyy over in the warbird area and get to see and hear > > about 20 P-51 Mustangs crank up, start, and then taxi out for the > afternoon > > airwshow, I could enjoy listening to the chatter on my handheld, > > I could go join with friends at a campfire in Camp Schoeller, I could walk > > around fighter jets, cargo planes, and more. There were vendors > > of little turbine engines, hear a Kitfox fly with a new Australian Rotec > > radial engine (the kind that our Dick N. has in his new Piet) check out > > seat cushions, new kits, ways to weld pop cans to pop cans (along with a > > great ginsu knife guy that was hilarious) and more. > > I think it cost me $26 to get in every day. Go to a football game or > > baseball game.....go to the nearest Cedar Point, Kings Island, or Great > > America park and it will cost you about the same or more. I don't like > > the commercialization anymore than the rest of you, but Oshkosh is > > still the greatest game around...and I won't stop going because a ton of > > the things that we liked before are STILL there today. Not all of it, > but > > quite a bit. > > > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh observations
Date: May 12, 2005
Thanks Mike and Jack for two great posts, ]Last year the jet powered semi trucks screaming down the runway at OSH kind of put it over the top for me. I've started to feel that the future of EAA for me is more in the local chapters and smaller fly-ins. I may still go to OSH and SNF but I find less to be interested in, with the exception of getting together with all the Piet guys and shopping the parts tents. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations > > > Guys-- I know this subject brings up many different opinions and I've had > my "moments" with my disappointment in the way EAA has > gone, but I took a fresh approach last year to the whole convention and it > made me step back and think about my frustrations a bit more. > > I don't like the commercialization any more than the rest of you, but if > you approach it with a good attitude, you can absorb all the good and > defect the bad. I realized that not going to Oshkosh or pulling my > membership wasn't going to hurt anyone but me.....EAA won't miss me > or send me a birthday card if I never go again so why be a martyr I > thought. I went last year and enjoyed the workshops where you can still > get free hands-on training in metal work, gas welding, fabric work, wood > work, rib stitching, and more. I enjoyed smelling the fresh leather in > homebuilts that were so far above my price range that I couldn't afford > the instrument panel, let alone the engine and airframe.....but I still > reveled in the thought that this 'kit' could out-run anything that Cessna > or Piper would ever put out, and cost less. I enjoyed sitting under > a tree having an ice cream cone, I enjoyed the $35 a night quiet dorm room > in Ripon, WI where I could watch the planes flying overhead > on the approach in the morning or after the airshow, I could browse and > try on 20 different headsets or gps's or hand-helds....I could get > suppliers catalogs from Wicks and ACS, I could check out biplanes and > antiques and talk with owners if I wanted, I could go to eve. programs > at Theater in the Woods, I could get cool in the a/c of the museum, I > could sit wayyyy over in the warbird area and get to see and hear > about 20 P-51 Mustangs crank up, start, and then taxi out for the > afternoon airwshow, I could enjoy listening to the chatter on my handheld, > I could go join with friends at a campfire in Camp Schoeller, I could walk > around fighter jets, cargo planes, and more. There were vendors > of little turbine engines, hear a Kitfox fly with a new Australian Rotec > radial engine (the kind that our Dick N. has in his new Piet) check out > seat cushions, new kits, ways to weld pop cans to pop cans (along with a > great ginsu knife guy that was hilarious) and more. > I think it cost me $26 to get in every day. Go to a football game or > baseball game.....go to the nearest Cedar Point, Kings Island, or Great > America park and it will cost you about the same or more. I don't like > the commercialization anymore than the rest of you, but Oshkosh is > still the greatest game around...and I won't stop going because a ton of > the things that we liked before are STILL there today. Not all of it, > but > quite a bit. > > Mike C. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
<001b01c55745$137f58c0$9865fea9@Sterling>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh observations
Date: May 12, 2005
Follow up... When my dad took this same machine to a B-1 Bomber Base (Dyess Air Force Base, near Abilene. last summer) the commanding officer allowed him on the field, and anyone else who owned a PMV (AROUND B1 BOMERS, C-17s, C5A Galaxy... the list goes on) and the CO wasn't worried about my father. In fact, he recruited 4 full bird colonels to lift him up the stairs into the cockpit. Talk about customer service. So I guess if the folks that run Oshkosh are worried that a 26,000 hour retired pilot is going to bump into an airplane with a 5 mile per hour scooter, maybe they should'nt rent handicap rigs! Why then does the Southwest Regional Fly in allow people who have a hard time walking to use their personal rigs? In the world of public relations there is a rule that most PR people keep in mind. It is called the PIE theory. Perception Is Everything. Management in Oshkosh needs to look into this. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations > > My gripe a few days ago about Oshkosh was directed not at the EAA in > general, but the attitude the Oshkosh experience has been for me in recent > years. I still enjoy Sun-N-Fun and the Southest Regional Fly In, but when my > dad and I drove thousands of miles in a gas guzzling motorhome (hauling his > personal mobility vehicle with a Texas Handicap Tag) EAA at Oshcash would > not allow him to use it BUT THEY WERE HAPPY TO RENT HIM ON OF THEIR MACHINES > AT $50 PER DAY. We planned on spending 5 days there, but hauled it back to > Texas after one day, his newly purchased handicap machine on the bumper... > > I have three other reasons I think the Management at EAA in Oshcash is not > customer focused, but I'll not eat up bandwidth. They have changed a lot in > the last 10 years (as they should) but not all of it is for the better. > > Sterling Brooks > (Turned in my EAA card 2 months ago... Keeping the AOPA card, never leave > home without it...) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 12:56 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations > > > > > > > Guys-- I know this subject brings up many different opinions and I've had > > my "moments" with my disappointment in the way EAA has > > gone, but I took a fresh approach last year to the whole convention and it > > made me step back and think about my frustrations a bit more. > > > > I don't like the commercialization any more than the rest of you, but if > > you approach it with a good attitude, you can absorb all the good and > > defect the bad. I realized that not going to Oshkosh or pulling my > > membership wasn't going to hurt anyone but me.....EAA won't miss me > > or send me a birthday card if I never go again so why be a martyr I > > thought. I went last year and enjoyed the workshops where you can still > > get free hands-on training in metal work, gas welding, fabric work, wood > > work, rib stitching, and more. I enjoyed smelling the fresh leather in > > homebuilts that were so far above my price range that I couldn't afford > the > > instrument panel, let alone the engine and airframe.....but I still > > reveled in the thought that this 'kit' could out-run anything that Cessna > > or Piper would ever put out, and cost less. I enjoyed sitting under > > a tree having an ice cream cone, I enjoyed the $35 a night quiet dorm room > > in Ripon, WI where I could watch the planes flying overhead > > on the approach in the morning or after the airshow, I could browse and > > try on 20 different headsets or gps's or hand-helds....I could get > > suppliers catalogs from Wicks and ACS, I could check out biplanes and > > antiques and talk with owners if I wanted, I could go to eve. programs > > at Theater in the Woods, I could get cool in the a/c of the museum, I > could > > sit wayyyy over in the warbird area and get to see and hear > > about 20 P-51 Mustangs crank up, start, and then taxi out for the > afternoon > > airwshow, I could enjoy listening to the chatter on my handheld, > > I could go join with friends at a campfire in Camp Schoeller, I could walk > > around fighter jets, cargo planes, and more. There were vendors > > of little turbine engines, hear a Kitfox fly with a new Australian Rotec > > radial engine (the kind that our Dick N. has in his new Piet) check out > > seat cushions, new kits, ways to weld pop cans to pop cans (along with a > > great ginsu knife guy that was hilarious) and more. > > I think it cost me $26 to get in every day. Go to a football game or > > baseball game.....go to the nearest Cedar Point, Kings Island, or Great > > America park and it will cost you about the same or more. I don't like > > the commercialization anymore than the rest of you, but Oshkosh is > > still the greatest game around...and I won't stop going because a ton of > > the things that we liked before are STILL there today. Not all of it, > but > > quite a bit. > > > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: RE: 0-235
Date: May 12, 2005
Norman, I've got straight pipes on my O-235 powered Piete, what did you put on yours as a muff? Gordon Bowen ----- Original Message ----- From: Norman Stapelberg To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: 0-235 Went flying in the plane yesterday and WOW what a difference, with the new exhaust it is a lot quieter and I now get 2400 Rpm in the climb. Norman ZS-VJA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: what a crock this is
Date: May 12, 2005
Jim, It's posted in an EAA communications note. http://eaa.org/communications/eaanews/050509_ratings.html (think I've got this right so you can web in to it if you're an EAA member). I guess it was somewhat confusing. But thrust is: if you've got a new Defiant twin engine experimental, you gotta have the multi-engine rating in order to take up passengers, or seaplane rating for a homebuilt like the Osprey. YOU as PIC can still give it a go solo, even without the rating (your insurance company will be a tad weaselly if you don't have the rating and have an accident solo), but you must have the rating if you're taking passengers in an experimental aircraft. Gordon Bowen ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Ash To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:07 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is I'm a little out of touch with the new regs, but can anybody quote specifically which reg(s) require this? Jim Ash -----Original Message----- From: Gordon Bowen Sent: May 12, 2005 12:32 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is This thread about FAA regs changes had passed thru the canardian user group I'm a member of a few days ago. General thrust----It affects very few homebuilders. This new reg was and is designed to close a loophole that allowed experimental airplanes that are unique, ie. twin engine or seaplanes (like my Osprey) to be flown with passengers without the PIC having any instructor endorsement in they're logbooks or the required rating, ie. taking up passengers in your Piete without a taildragger rating. As the prior reg was written, it was ok for an experimental PIC to take up a passenger in his or her niffty new homebuilt twin without any instruction or testing. The new understanding of the closed loophole is an experimental PIC can still take their twin engine or seaplane aircraft for a little cruise without the rating in their logbooks but they just cannot take passengers. There is some website of the EAA's in Oshcash WI, that helps clarifies this proposed FAA change, but since I'm protesting the the crass commericalization of the EAA and refused to renew my membership a couple years ago, I cannot access the website. What I'm reporting here is what was posted and discusssed ad nauseum on another user group. Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska Cozy IV N64CY Osprey II N64SY Pietenpol N-1033B " But such is the constitution of my mind I cannot avoid forming an opinion", John Adams ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 6:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is The FAA is underscoring regulatory requirements for pilots who fly passengers in homebuilt aircraft. A new notice would restrict them to flying passengers only in planes in which they are qualified and experienced. Currency and proficiency rules apply to those who take people for rides in their experimental aircraft and EAA says current pilots have until Aug. 31, 2005, to prove they have the necessary category and class ratings for the aircraft they fly. Those who always fly solo will not need to fly through the bureaucratic hoops. Under the new notice, which was issued April 21, affected pilots will have fill out a form and make sure their recreational or higher certificate is in order. Flying passengers requires that the pilot have at least five hours as PIC in the category, class, make and model of the experimental aircraft in question between Sept. 1, 2004, and Aug. 31, 2005. An authorized flight instructor must make a logbook entry attesting to the pilot's proficiency with the aircraft and then the pilot must show the log to a designated pilot examiner or FAA Operations Inspector. A new pilot certificate will then be issued restricting the pilot to flying that particular experimental aircraft (or any others for which he or she has done the paperwork). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
<001b01c55745$137f58c0$9865fea9@Sterling> <000801c55746$b622fa40$9865fea9@Sterling>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh observations
Date: May 12, 2005
Sterling, Across the board, every web based homebuilder group I participate in is very disappointed with the direction of The EAA, INC. EAA has many good qualities and advantages for many GA pilots, but less and less so for homebuilders. These regional fly-ins and web based user groups have been more useful to me and apparently many others, who simply love the homebuilder part of aviation and will take a pass on looking at a $30K avionics package or two million EAA hats and T-shirts. I started going to Oshcash in'73, did the composites workshop for the EAA in '92-93, but lost interest in the entire program when they became too commerical. One of the members of the canard user group is with EAA Oskosh HQ, he admits it's now mainly big business, they have about 750 employees, over 500 acres of land and a multi-million buck budget to support. They have to focus on the big business or they fold. It isn't for the volunteer homebuilders trying to build their planes from NAPA parts anymore. So like you, I'm no longer a member. Anyway wouldn't trade one glorious Alaskan July/Aug day for a free 10 day trip to Wisconsin for the "Air Venture" in hot muggy July/Aug, so I gotta quit bitchin'. On another subject-----------how'd your "lost foam" gas tank turn out? Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska Cozy IV N64CY Osprey II N64SY Pietenpol N-1033B " But such is the constitution of my mind I cannot avoid forming an opinion", John Adams, Such is the weakness of my character that I must give voice to that opinion. GB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2005
From: Jim Vydra <jvydra(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: WOW! - new GN-1 plans available
Just thought i would mention this......from my career in fire protection I know that getting up to print plans is very expensive.....surprised he can sell em that cheap. --- DJ Vegh wrote: > > > I've been talking with RJ Grega over the past > several months consulting him > on areas on the GN-1 plans that need changing or > improvement. He's been > working with a CAD drafter and has released the > revised plans. > > He just sent me a complimentary set today and I must > say... WOW! these are > nice! all CAD drawn and printed on 24x36 paper. SO > much easier to read > than the old hand drawn 11x17 plans. Many > discrepancies have been corrected > and certain areas have been improved. > > Even though most of you are building Piets I would > still suggest buying > these new GN-1 plans if you can spare the $75. They > are great to have > around just to look at or get ideas from. no... > Mr. Grega is not paying > me to advertise for him... I just wanted to let you > all know that a great > set of easy to read and clearly drawn plans is just > an email away. > > here's his site > > http://www.gregagn-1.com > > DJ Vegh > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
<001b01c55745$137f58c0$9865fea9@Sterling> <000801c55746$b622fa40$9865fea9@Sterling> <008501c55750$9a76bc00$3e9870d1@defaultcomp>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh observations
Date: May 12, 2005
It's guys like you and Chuck Gantzer, Mike Cuy and Jim Markle and dozens of more on this list that embody the spirt of what EAA used to be. I've benefited very much from a lot of info several dozen people on this list who have shared with me off-list. Jim Markle was nice enough to loan me his $60 scissors (two months ago... and offered my dad a place to recline for a while when he was ill on a recent trip to Plano...) Steve Ruse only touched the tip of the iceberg in how great the grass field folks are... They are out there everywhere, I just don't recall meeting any at Oshcash. But the good guys are out there in the sticks (and at Brodhead...) I hesitated when I posted my gripe about the folks in Oshcash, because the organization still plays an important role, but still for liitle people like me that have been beat up by them... I just have a sour taste about 4 very bad experiences I've had, all of which have happened on the grounds at Oshcash. IF ANYONE AT EAA HQ IS LISTENING, I'M MORE THAN DELIGHTED TO EXPOUND ON THE OTHER 3 COMPLAINTS. (Do they even have a PR department?) The tank is looking so cool, I can hardly wait to get all the pieces together so show my TACO pals down here and when I make the big trip to Brodhead (where I plan to invest some hard earned cash in the local motel, eating establishments and at the local EAA chapter in the form of a contribution. Those guys at Brodhead deserve some kind of a trophy or plaque. More work to do on two additional tanks (for a total of three) so I can out-range my pal Chuck Gantzer. God blessed me with a a monster of a bladder and I can outlast almost anyone in the cockpit, so Chuck, be prepared. My 80 HP Aircamper might not work out to be faster than yours, but I can go 8 hours in the saddle... without getting off the horse (and no cheating in a pee cup or drain tube like Chuck...) And thanks Gordon for the tips you e-mailed me on building fiberglass tanks. I'm still out here in the barn "larnin'.." from you guys. (Hey Gordon, Brooks Range, wouldn't that be a great trip in an Aircamper?) Please eveyone excuse my venting... It's warm and humid down south and being a guy who can only afford to own and fly an Aircamper and not a $100,000 homebuilt, I'm not a happy camper when it comes to the guys upstairs in Oshcash. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations > > Sterling, > Across the board, every web based homebuilder group I participate in is very > disappointed with the direction of The EAA, INC. EAA has many good > qualities and advantages for many GA pilots, but less and less so for > homebuilders. These regional fly-ins and web based user groups have been > more useful to me and apparently many others, who simply love the > homebuilder part of aviation and will take a pass on looking at a $30K > avionics package or two million EAA hats and T-shirts. I started going to > Oshcash in'73, did the composites workshop for the EAA in '92-93, but lost > interest in the entire program when they became too commerical. One of the > members of the canard user group is with EAA Oskosh HQ, he admits it's now > mainly big business, they have about 750 employees, over 500 acres of land > and a multi-million buck budget to support. They have to focus on the big > business or they fold. It isn't for the volunteer homebuilders trying to > build their planes from NAPA parts anymore. So like you, I'm no longer a > member. Anyway wouldn't trade one glorious Alaskan July/Aug day for a free > 10 day trip to Wisconsin for the "Air Venture" in hot muggy July/Aug, so I > gotta quit bitchin'. > > On another subject-----------how'd your "lost foam" gas tank turn out? > > Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska > Cozy IV N64CY > Osprey II N64SY > Pietenpol N-1033B > " But such is the constitution of my mind I cannot avoid forming an > opinion", John Adams, Such is the weakness of my character that I must > give voice to that opinion. GB > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2005
From: Mark <aerialphotos(at)dp.net>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh observations
<001b01c55745$137f58c0$9865fea9@Sterling> Sterling wrote: > >My gripe a few days ago about Oshkosh was directed not at the EAA in >general, but the attitude the Oshkosh experience has been for me in recent >years. I still enjoy Sun-N-Fun and the Southest Regional Fly In, but when my >dad and I drove thousands of miles in a gas guzzling motorhome (hauling his >personal mobility vehicle with a Texas Handicap Tag) EAA at Oshcash would >not allow him to use it BUT THEY WERE HAPPY TO RENT HIM ON OF THEIR MACHINES >AT $50 PER DAY. We planned on spending 5 days there, but hauled it back to >Texas after one day, his newly purchased handicap machine on the bumper... > >I have three other reasons I think the Management at EAA in Oshcash is not >customer focused, but I'll not eat up bandwidth. They have changed a lot in >the last 10 years (as they should) but not all of it is for the better. > >Sterling Brooks >(Turned in my EAA card 2 months ago... Keeping the AOPA card, never leave >home without it...) > > > Just remember that if you are talking about EAA and the airshows at Oshkosh and Sun and Fun you now are really talking about two different organzations. The airshows are now for profit businesses as Air Venture. Nothing wrong with making money, yet it did not feel the same as my first visit many years ago and I may not go back myself for a very long time. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2005
From: Paul Schermerhorn <pest1419(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Air Venture
Go ahead. Beat up on EAA all you want. But where will you be down the road when it is difficult at best (and very expensive) to hold a third class medical. Sport pilot may be down your alley, as well as light sport aircraft & experimental light sport aircraft. And who did Young Eagles? Not any grass roots group that I have heard of!!! These things do take oshCASH. Ya know. Would Space Ship One and White Knight have been possible without the presence of the homebuilt advocacy group? I doubt it. My $0.02 worth. Paul Schermerhorn Even a fish stays out of trouble if he keeps his mouth shut. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 12, 2005
Subject: Re: Oshkosh observations
In a message dated 5/12/2005 7:46:31 PM Central Standard Time, sterling(at)pgrb.com writes: More work to do on two additional tanks (for a total of three) so I can out-range my pal Chuck Gantzer. God blessed me with a a monster of a bladder and I can outlast almost anyone in the cockpit, so Chuck, be prepared. My 80 HP Aircamper might not work out to be faster than yours, but I can go 8 hours in the saddle... without getting off the horse (and no cheating in a pee cup or drain tube like Chuck...) Well Sterling, we'll find out next summer, when we do the flight up north through South Dakoda, Mount Rushmore and Devel's Tower. I've been wanting to do that flight for a long time. Do some exploring up there. Chuck G. can be quite creative hiding a pee cup... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Singleton" <slsingleton(at)cvalley.net>
Subject: Re: Poor Eye Sight
Date: May 12, 2005
...Hello everyone. I'm just lurking in the shawdows of this list (working on building ribs at present) and I really do enjoy reading eveyone's comments but could some of you please use your Fonts and make your letters a little larger so my less than perfect eyes can read all this neat information. Thanks.. Steve Singleton MO. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Poor Eye Sight
Date: May 12, 2005
Steve, if you're using outlook or outlook express you can click up at "view" then drag down to "text size" select "largest" now your email text will show up very large and readable. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Singleton To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 8:43 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Poor Eye Sight ...Hello everyone. I'm just lurking in the shawdows of this list (working on building ribs at present) and I really do enjoy reading eveyone's comments but could some of you please use your Fonts and make your letters a little larger so my less than perfect eyes can read all this neat information. Thanks.. Steve Singleton MO. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: O-200 need muffler?
Date: May 13, 2005
Ted, I've been waiting to respond to this until I had a chance to test my new setup. I'm using a David Clark H13.4 headset and an H10-40. I also have a Lightspeed 15K headset that I've used, but it is larger than the DC's so it catches more air. Two weeks ago the Lightspeeds departed a taller friend's head when he was up front in my GN-1, luckily the cord was velcro-tied to the cabane and I grabbed the headset when it was flopping around beside me. That at least says something for the quality of the Lightspeed cable, it didn't break and the headset still works fine. The noise canceling feature is almost useless in open cockpit planes. That fact along with the smaller profile means I'll be using the DC's exclusively in the GN-1 in the future. I'm also using a Troll Avionics Inc. HV-1 Hypervox intercom. This is a four place panel mount intercom, not what you would expect in an Aircamper (it cost me $30 on Ebay). Right now it isn't installed, I just made a "portable" wire harness for it, but I plan to install it out of sight under the panel. It works great, and has more than enough volume even for a noisy Pietenpol cockpit (I have no mufflers on my A-75). Earlier this week I installed mic covers from Oregon Aero on the microphones of both headsets ($12 each). Without the covers, the intercom was virtually worthless. We could talk on the ground, but once we got in the air, the squelch had to be so high to cut out engine & wind noise that we couldn't speak loud enough to activate the intercom. With the mic covers, even my fianc can speak to me with relative ease, and she sometimes has trouble even getting the intercom in a Cessna 150 to pick her up. I was pretty impressed, and now I think the mic covers are a must have if you are going to try to use an intercom in an open cockpit plane. Steve Ruse - Coppell TX N6383J - KGYI -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ted Brousseau Subject: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: O-200 need muffler? Thanks for all the good comments. I guess I will go with what we have on the present 65 Cont. I love the sound. After over 400 hours in it I didn't realize it was noisy. Should have know when we could never get a good conversation over the intercom. On that subject I would like to know if anyone has come up with a good combination of headsets and intercom that works in a Piet. Thanks again, Ted -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: steamlaunch(at)softhome.net
Subject: Oshkosh observations...SAA
Date: May 13, 2005
Jack and Mike, Great perspective on th the Big "O" event, if Pietlovers want something a little less comercial there is always room for a few more Piets at the SAA flyin at FRASCA Feild which is very close in flavor to the old Rockford days. Paul's latest contribution to the Grass roots. Usually one or two Piets attend and the grass gets stomped down around them to the neglect of any RV that shows up. As the Piets were getting ready to leave last year the crowd gathered around to soak them in and Paul Pobrenzy mentioned you never see a crowd gather for the departure of a RV. Matt http://www.sportaviation.org/ Subject: Oshkosh observations From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com> Good post, Mike. I was dissappointed the last time I went to Brodhead at all the growsing and bad mouthing of the EAA that a lot of the Piet community at Brodhead was doing. Has the EAA gotten too commercial? Absolutely. Do they still give the ONLY support to homebuilders worldwide? Yes. I'll bet half the people growsing at Brodhead had a whole shelf full of EAA publications, ranging from Tony Bingelis books to EAA's Wood Aircraft Book". There's a lot that has changed about the EAA, but let's face it - the whole world changes and you must either change with it or become irrelevant. At least EAA is trying to keep young people coming in. I don't like all the corprate sponsorship at OSH, but if it keeps prices down, bring 'em on. As you pointed out, it's still quite a bargain. Jack PhillipsSubject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject:
D6uTkP009708(at)mail.matronics.com> Matt-- the SAA gathering is the kind of thing we can go to if we have had it with the EAA event and that is what is great about America....there is always something else on another channel. I'm with all of you, Sterling, Gordon about the downsides of the way EAA has gone, but since I know my body needs to travel there each summer (out of habit, if anything else !) I just tried to focus on the good things I liked. It worked. I still get aggravated at all the officials running around in Gators when everyone else is hoofing it....but that's life. Walk between rows of planes then instead of on the paved walkways. The thing that made my visit so good last year was that I told myself I was not going to rush, rush, rush to try to see everything because I absorb virtually nothing out of it that way and exhaust myself in the process. I just stopped if something interested me and if I stayed 30 seconds or 30 minutes, that was fine. I got caught up talking with some of the 80+ year old Women Air Service Pilots and ended up going to a talk and then another talk in the museum with a whole panel of these super neat ladies. I was listening to history there--like Sterling's Dad talking about giving instruction in a Stearman in WWII......just fascinating stories. These folks won't be around in 10 years so to have them all gathered together to listen to....and answer questions ? A very good experience. I can see both sides of the Oshkosh issues, absolutely....but gotta suck up all the good stuff and have a martini regarding the bad ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2005
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh observations...SAA
I met Paul Pobrenzy at Sun & Fun 3-4 years ago (the only large EAA event I had ever attended). He seemed just as unhappy with the way Oshkosh was heading and told me about the SAA. I think Paul's feelings speak volumns. I think that EAA has a decisive role in helping to keep aviation free to the everyday pilot, and for that I support them. I still prefer to attend the small, local events for the fun and excitement of grass-roots aviation. I find the comradship is greater at these smaller events than at the larger ones. To me, the larger the crowd, the less fun the event becomes. The real beauty of aviation in general is it's versitility. There is something for everyone who wishes to be involved. The old proverb, "One man's pie is another man's poison," fits well here. The love/hate relationship that has developed with the National EAA is the result of extreme growth which tends to depersonalize the individual airman. I think we need both the National EAA for those who can tolerate it's bad qualities, and the local EAA chapters which are much more personal to the aviator. I'm kind of riding the fence here, but I don't agree with "killing the sow just because she has too many piglets." From what I've heard of Broadhead, this is what the EAA used to be, and from the comments I've read here, many still like it that way. Doc --- steamlaunch(at)softhome.net wrote: > steamlaunch(at)softhome.net > > Jack and Mike, > Great perspective on th the Big "O" event, if > Pietlovers want something a > little less comercial there is always room for a few > more Piets at the SAA > flyin at FRASCA Feild which is very close in flavor > to the old Rockford > days. Paul's latest contribution to the Grass > roots. > > > > > Matt > > > http://www.sportaviation.org/ > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________ NOD32 for Linux Mail Server. please, visit our website: http://www.nod32.com/.
From: "Norman Stapelberg" <norshel(at)mweb.co.za>
Subject: RE: 0-235
Date: May 13, 2005
I fitted a Vans RV Cross over system and now I can hear my instructor without guessing what he has said. Norman Stapelberg -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Bowen Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: RE: 0-235 Norman, I've got straight pipes on my O-235 powered Piete, what did you put on yours as a muff? Gordon Bowen ----- Original Message ----- From: Norman Stapelberg <mailto:norshel(at)mweb.co.za> Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: 0-235 Went flying in the plane yesterday and WOW what a difference, with the new exhaust it is a lot quieter and I now get 2400 Rpm in the climb. Norman ZS-VJA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh observations...SAA
Date: May 13, 2005
I don't think anybody is actually trashing the new EAA, in spite of making a little fun of Oshcash. Waxing a little nostalgic about how the EAA has changed in the last 10-15 years. 20-30 years ago, homebuilders at "their" experimental aircraft convention had a totally different experience than homebuilders today going to the "Big O's Air Venture". That's right--- this event used to be the Convention and Fly-in for EAA members. Not Wisconsin's largest tourist event and EAA Inc. annual money source. It was a convention of guys with like interest and problems they tried to work out at their convention. Just like the Legion Convention or Elks Convention or VFW, etc. The flight line actually had homebuilts from scratch, like the Piete, Tailwind, Pixie or Varieze and you saw the same guys each year. The workshops were run by volunteer EAA homebuilders who had actually built or were building an aircraft, not some for profit corporation. You went to the workshop tents for several days to learn how to weld or make wood ribs or cover with fabric or fiberglass composites work. The workshops were very important to your trip to your convention. The Forum Tents were meaningful and almost mandatory if you were building a particular guy's design and you had a chance to discuss, in person, this guy's changes, other builders pros and cons. It was a convention of experimental homebuilders, nothing more and nothing less. The "Flea Market" was the biggest and most important "shopping mall", my breaker panel in the Cozy comes from this mall for $10. Guys walking the flightline were members of the EAA, that Paul Pobz knew and everyone recognized him and Steve Wittman, or Burt Rutan, walking around their creations. Shows my age, I now sound like my father did, but I sure miss the good ole days of the EAA. Long live the New EAA, may today's members have the same great memories 20 years from now that I have of the Old EAA, of 30 years ago. Gordon Bowen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Poor Eye Sight
Or if you are using Netscape or Firefox just hit Cntl and + a few times. On 5/12/05, Steve Singleton wrote: > > ...Hello everyone. I'm just lurking in the shawdows of this list (working > on building ribs at present) and I really do enjoy reading eveyone's > comments but could some of you please use your Fonts and make your letters a > little larger so my less than perfect eyes can read all this neat > information. Thanks.. Steve Singleton MO. > -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Air Venture
I agree. And just as important is when political muscle is required at both local and federal levels to prevent airport shutdowns, ridiculous airspace restrictions, security checks before any GA aircraft can fly as some congressmen have mentioned, etc. All that money the EAA collects from non-homebuilders, spamcaners, vendors, etc. comes in handy when the legal bills start piling up. On 5/12/05, Paul Schermerhorn wrote: > > Go ahead. Beat up on EAA all you want. But where will you be down the road > when it is difficult at best (and very expensive) to hold a third class > medical. Sport pilot may be down your alley, as well as light sport aircraft > & experimental light sport aircraft. > And who did Young Eagles? Not any grass roots group that I have heard > of!!! > These things do take oshCASH. Ya know. > Would Space Ship One and White Knight have been possible without the > presence of the homebuilt advocacy group? I doubt it. > My $0.02 worth. > Paul Schermerhorn > > > Even a fish stays out of trouble if he keeps his mouth shut. -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: WOW! - new GN-1 plans available
I agree DJ, I am building a Piet but find the new GN-1 plans helpful, especially since I plan on building Cub style gear. On 5/12/05, DJ Vegh wrote: > > > I've been talking with RJ Grega over the past several months consulting > him > on areas on the GN-1 plans that need changing or improvement. He's been > working with a CAD drafter and has released the revised plans. > > He just sent me a complimentary set today and I must say... WOW! these are > nice! all CAD drawn and printed on 24x36 paper. SO much easier to read > than the old hand drawn 11x17 plans. Many discrepancies have been > corrected > and certain areas have been improved. > > Even though most of you are building Piets I would still suggest buying > these new GN-1 plans if you can spare the $75. They are great to have > around just to look at or get ideas from. no... Mr. Grega is not paying > me to advertise for him... I just wanted to let you all know that a great > set of easy to read and clearly drawn plans is just an email away. > > here's his site > > http://www.gregagn-1.com > > DJ Vegh > www.imagedv.com/aircamper <http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper> > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > > > -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh observations
Date: May 13, 2005
Chuck Would you want some possible company for part of that trip? That area is very beautiful. I have flown in and out of the Black Hills area a few times. Coming down the valley thru Sundance, Spearfish and Sturgis is wonderful, especially the smell of the Black Hills pines. Devils Tower is also an amazing sight. I have orbited it closer than I should have. It wouldn't take much to get me out there again. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:12 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations In a message dated 5/12/2005 7:46:31 PM Central Standard Time, sterling(at)pgrb.com writes: More work to do on two additional tanks (for a total of three) so I can out-range my pal Chuck Gantzer. God blessed me with a a monster of a bladder and I can outlast almost anyone in the cockpit, so Chuck, be prepared. My 80 HP Aircamper might not work out to be faster than yours, but I can go 8 hours in the saddle... without getting off the horse (and no cheating in a pee cup or drain tube like Chuck...) Well Sterling, we'll find out next summer, when we do the flight up north through South Dakoda, Mount Rushmore and Devel's Tower. I've been wanting to do that flight for a long time. Do some exploring up there. Chuck G. can be quite creative hiding a pee cup... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh observations
Date: May 13, 2005
In Chuck's absence, consider yourself invited. This has been in the back burner planning stage for a few months and I hope Chuck and I are able to make this trip with video cameras attached to each of our airplanes. You are right. The scenery is spectacular around Devils Tower, Custer's Last Stand and Mount Rushmore. We also have some unique scenery here in Texas along the Rio Grande from Big Bend up to Presidio... Flying through those canyons has been one of the big thrills of my life in airplanes. Sterling Brooks 5TA6 San Antonio Sectional ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations Chuck Would you want some possible company for part of that trip? That area is very beautiful. I have flown in and out of the Black Hills area a few times. Coming down the valley thru Sundance, Spearfish and Sturgis is wonderful, especially the smell of the Black Hills pines. Devils Tower is also an amazing sight. I have orbited it closer than I should have. It wouldn't take much to get me out there again. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:12 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations In a message dated 5/12/2005 7:46:31 PM Central Standard Time, sterling(at)pgrb.com writes: More work to do on two additional tanks (for a total of three) so I can out-range my pal Chuck Gantzer. God blessed me with a a monster of a bladder and I can outlast almost anyone in the cockpit, so Chuck, be prepared. My 80 HP Aircamper might not work out to be faster than yours, but I can go 8 hours in the saddle... without getting off the horse (and no cheating in a pee cup or drain tube like Chuck...) Well Sterling, we'll find out next summer, when we do the flight up north through South Dakoda, Mount Rushmore and Devel's Tower. I've been wanting to do that flight for a long time. Do some exploring up there. Chuck G. can be quite creative hiding a pee cup... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2005
Subject: Cross Country Flights
In a message dated 5/13/2005 8:19:36 PM Central Standard Time, horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes: Chuck Would you want some possible company for part of that trip? That area is very beautiful. I have flown in and out of the Black Hills area a few times. Coming down the valley thru Sundance, Spearfish and Sturgis is wonderful, especially the smell of the Black Hills pines. Devils Tower is also an amazing sight. I have orbited it closer than I should have. It wouldn't take much to get me out there again. Dick N. Dick, Did you ever get those floats done ?? Hey, wouldn't that be something if we had a whole gaggle of Low & Slows do this cross-country ?? That part of the country must be really beautiful. I've never been there. The smells from an open cockpit is just simply another one of the pleasures of this type of flying. From cookouts & fresh cut hay to grass fires & road kills...add in the birds eye view and the rumble sounds of an engine that doesn't skip a beat, and you get an experience that relatively few people have ever had. To all you folks out there building - keep after it and you will be rewarded ten fold !! Sterling, That flight up the Rio Grande is one I hope to make this summer. Max D. has another portion of Texas that sounds similar. Flying down to Terry B. at Tick Hill last summer, I discovered how BIG Texas really is !! To put it into perspective, it would take me Three days to fly across the state, east to west...or north to south for that matter. I think I could spend the whole summer flying around Texas, and would need at least 100 gallons of Baby Oil to smoke the whole state !! Chuck G. NX770CG Working on 'Drag Reduction Mod' on my plane. As far as a Pietenpol is concerned, it sounds like an Oxymoron, huh ? I'm cutting foam airfoils for all the round tubing, then cover it with UltraCoat - model airplane heat shrink covering. Improving my gas mileage, doing my part to reduce dependency on foreign oil... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2005
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Emailing: Master-Walker-copy
Ha! And you guys thought smoke was way out there! Clif ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)AOL.COM
Date: May 14, 2005
Subject: EAA/Oshkosh/Brodhead
I agree with those who are tolerant of EAA and Oshkosh but I do believe it is a little too commercial. On the other hand, where would we be without EAA? I first attended Oshkosh in 1970 at age 15 -- I'm pretty sure that was the year. My late Mom, bless here, had heard about the event and decided that her boy needed to see that event and so before daylight one summer day we set out from Trempealeau, Wis. in our '68 VW Squareback. We fought fog all across central Wisconsin on the trip but when we "broke out" near Ripon we were greeted by what seemed like thousands of airplanes -- everywhere you looked. The memories of that day are thick...the homebuilts, warbirds and antiques. A line-up of real Stearmans that until that day I had only read about. Paul Poberezny flying the pants off the P-64; Bob Hoover thrilling us with the Rockwell Aero Commander and then his yellow P-51. Dale Crites flying a Curtiss Pusher! I was intrigued by the Dyke Delta's. I remember walking down the flight line and getting Cliff Robertson's autograph. Then I was standing admiring a real-live P-40 with shark's mouth when the pilot came walking up. He smiled at me and commented on what a great day it was for flying. He set his chute down on the ground and stepped up to the wing-walk. I noticed he had a bit of a limp. We talked just a little and then he asked if I could do him a huge favor and hand his chute up to him -- but, of course! After he started and taxied away another fellow walked over. I asked who the P-40 pilot was. "Why, that's Frank Tallman!" (You "young" whiper-snappers might have to look up Frank Tallman! Gosh, I feel old this morning!) I don't know if it was 70, 71 or 72 but I remember taking what must be some of the last photos of the then only flying Grumman F3F/G32. Little did any of us know that as Gene Chase taxied out that it would be the plane's last flight -- she caught on fire in flight. Gene and his passenger bailed out and survived, but the news spread like wildfire through the convention grounds that evening. I remember taking pics of a twin-engine DeHavilland Dominie and Gypsy Moth which started a long-time love of all of those great DH planes. If it wasn't '70, then it was a year or so later that a guy by the name of Rutan showed up with a plane he called the VariViggen--the rest is history, as they say. And who can forget "the Whistler!" Or Harold Best-Devereaux's accent and flying stories! Anyway, it was at Oshkosh 1970 that I got the bug and the spark to one day build my own plane. (A few years later I volunteered for a work weekend at Oshkosh and had the honor of replacing the generator brushes on Paul's "Red One" VW -- you might say it was my "brush" with fame! I sure hope it ran okay for Paul that summer!) Thirty-five years later I'm finally building that plane. It's a Piet and the fuselage now sits in the basement...all those memories and inspiration are tied up in that little plane now under construction. So, sure Oshkosh has become huge and commercialized, but I'll still go to Oshkosh to seek out the grass roots spirit -- and airplane parts! Last year was my first trip to Brodhead and I can tell you that I found the original spirit of EAA very much alive and well there -- best time I've had on an airport since 1970. What a great event! Let's see, only 70 days or so 'til Brodhead '05! By the way, I'm still working on metal fittings... Fred B. EAA 61810 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: EAA/Oshkosh/Brodhead
Date: May 14, 2005
Good memories Fred. I hope the teenaged kid that goes to Oshkosh this year will have some good memories like you still do 35 years later. It's still hard to believe what Hoover could do with that AeroC, even if it was the seeds of commercialization taking root at the homebuilder's convention. Wolfe- "you can't go home anymore" (or something like that, in Return of the Native), the Old EAA ain't no more. If you find those grass roots still lingering at Airventure '05, please let me know. Perhaps I would trade several glorious Alaskan summer days for a trip back to see the EAA as it use to, but suspect we'll have to rely on Homebuilder sponsored/organized events like Brodhead or the Canardians Rough River KY fly-ins to get the grass root started in a field laid fallow by commerical interests of HQ. So much for trips down memorie lane..................Get that Piete out the door, 35 years is too long for a building program. Gordon Bowen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Cross Country Flights
Date: May 14, 2005
Chuck and Sterling Is this going to be right after Broadhead? Right about that time is the Harley get togeter at Sturgis. Another not to miss stop is the famous Wall Drug. The airport is only a couple of blocks away. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 11:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cross Country Flights In a message dated 5/13/2005 8:19:36 PM Central Standard Time, horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes: Chuck Would you want some possible company for part of that trip? That area is very beautiful. I have flown in and out of the Black Hills area a few times. Coming down the valley thru Sundance, Spearfish and Sturgis is wonderful, especially the smell of the Black Hills pines. Devils Tower is also an amazing sight. I have orbited it closer than I should have. It wouldn't take much to get me out there again. Dick N. Dick, Did you ever get those floats done ?? Hey, wouldn't that be something if we had a whole gaggle of Low & Slows do this cross-country ?? That part of the country must be really beautiful. I've never been there. The smells from an open cockpit is just simply another one of the pleasures of this type of flying. From cookouts & fresh cut hay to grass fires & road kills...add in the birds eye view and the rumble sounds of an engine that doesn't skip a beat, and you get an experience that relatively few people have ever had. To all you folks out there building - keep after it and you will be rewarded ten fold !! Sterling, That flight up the Rio Grande is one I hope to make this summer. Max D. has another portion of Texas that sounds similar. Flying down to Terry B. at Tick Hill last summer, I discovered how BIG Texas really is !! To put it into perspective, it would take me Three days to fly across the state, east to west...or north to south for that matter. I think I could spend the whole summer flying around Texas, and would need at least 100 gallons of Baby Oil to smoke the whole state !! Chuck G. NX770CG Working on 'Drag Reduction Mod' on my plane. As far as a Pietenpol is concerned, it sounds like an Oxymoron, huh ? I'm cutting foam airfoils for all the round tubing, then cover it with UltraCoat - model airplane heat shrink covering. Improving my gas mileage, doing my part to reduce dependency on foreign oil... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2005
From: Mark <aerialphotos(at)dp.net>
Subject: Re: EAA/Oshkosh/Brodhead
Gordon Bowen wrote: > Good memories Fred. I hope the teenaged kid that goes to Oshkosh this > year will have some good memories like you still do 35 years later. > It's still hard to believe what Hoover could do with that AeroC, even > if it was the seeds of commercialization taking root at the > homebuilder's convention. Wolfe- "you can't go home anymore" (or > something like that, in Return of the Native), the Old EAA ain't no > more. If you find those grass roots still lingering at Airventure > '05, please let me know. Perhaps I would trade several glorious > Alaskan summer days for a trip back to see the EAA as it use to, but > suspect we'll have to rely on Homebuilder sponsored/organized events > like Brodhead or the Canardians Rough River KY fly-ins to get the > grass root started in a field laid fallow by commerical interests of HQ. > > So much for trips down memorie lane..................Get that Piete > out the door, 35 years is too long for a building program. > Gordon Bowen I might be true that you can't go home again, but then again maybe you can. If enough people were willing to work at it, maybe a new event can be started that had all the old princples that used to be what OSH was all about. Some of it is still there. I know of no where you can go with that big of a crowd of people with so little trash on the ground. My first trip to OSH I left my first decent camera on a table in one of the cafe's for a couple of hours in all the excitement. When I realized my mistake I went back thinking there was no way it would still be there. Yet to my surprise it had not moved one inch. Hundreds of people had walked by, but no one walked off with it. Just curious in a perfect world if we were going to start over again and recreate what OSH used to be, just where would you put it? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Cross Country Flights
Date: May 14, 2005
Chuck I forgot about your question about the floats. I havent even thought about that lately. I am busy with the engine installation on my new Piet. There is a whole lot more to the installation of the radial. The floats are for that Piet and I'll get it flying first before taking that on. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 11:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cross Country Flights In a message dated 5/13/2005 8:19:36 PM Central Standard Time, horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes: Chuck Would you want some possible company for part of that trip? That area is very beautiful. I have flown in and out of the Black Hills area a few times. Coming down the valley thru Sundance, Spearfish and Sturgis is wonderful, especially the smell of the Black Hills pines. Devils Tower is also an amazing sight. I have orbited it closer than I should have. It wouldn't take much to get me out there again. Dick N. Dick, Did you ever get those floats done ?? Hey, wouldn't that be something if we had a whole gaggle of Low & Slows do this cross-country ?? That part of the country must be really beautiful. I've never been there. The smells from an open cockpit is just simply another one of the pleasures of this type of flying. From cookouts & fresh cut hay to grass fires & road kills...add in the birds eye view and the rumble sounds of an engine that doesn't skip a beat, and you get an experience that relatively few people have ever had. To all you folks out there building - keep after it and you will be rewarded ten fold !! Sterling, That flight up the Rio Grande is one I hope to make this summer. Max D. has another portion of Texas that sounds similar. Flying down to Terry B. at Tick Hill last summer, I discovered how BIG Texas really is !! To put it into perspective, it would take me Three days to fly across the state, east to west...or north to south for that matter. I think I could spend the whole summer flying around Texas, and would need at least 100 gallons of Baby Oil to smoke the whole state !! Chuck G. NX770CG Working on 'Drag Reduction Mod' on my plane. As far as a Pietenpol is concerned, it sounds like an Oxymoron, huh ? I'm cutting foam airfoils for all the round tubing, then cover it with UltraCoat - model airplane heat shrink covering. Improving my gas mileage, doing my part to reduce dependency on foreign oil... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2005
Subject: Re: Cross Country Flights
In a message dated 5/14/2005 9:54:50 PM Central Standard Time, horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes: Chuck and Sterling Is this going to be right after Broadhead? Right about that time is the Harley get togeter at Sturgis. Another not to miss stop is the famous Wall Drug. The airport is only a couple of blocks away. Dick Yeah, I was thinking the 'Sturgis Run' would be a great time to get up that way. Sounds like you and Sterling would make good Tour Guides for this flight. What's the famous Wall Drug...place for the long hair, tatoo covered Harley drivers to gather ?? Put it down on the flight plan !! We'll have to plan this flight after Sterling gets his Test Flight Hours flown off, and he feels confident in his plane. As for me, I can be ready to go in a matter of hours !! Sterling, I hope you're healed up enough to get some work done on your plane !! Chuck G. doing an 'aerial photography' flight on Sunday. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2005
Subject: Re: EAA/Oshkosh/Brodhead
In a message dated 5/14/2005 10:04:41 PM Central Standard Time, aerialphotos(at)dp.net writes: Just curious in a perfect world if we were going to start over again and recreate what OSH used to be, just where would you put it? Mark, How about Brodhead and Urbana ? Hey Mark, I see in your screen name you do some aerial photography. Do you have any advise for a rookie, about getting some good shots ?? Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
<4286BC0B.6070907(at)dp.net>
Subject: Re: EAA/Oshkosh/Brodhead
Date: May 14, 2005
Mark, In a perfect world the homebuilders convention would put the emphasis back on actually building/flying homebuilt aircraft: more area for the workshops and more types of workshops ie. instrumentation, engine rebuilding, etc. , less Forum tent emphasis on Gen'l Aviation high dollar products and more info on building techniques, discussion Forum tents made available for homebuilders of any particular design to exchange ideas and techniques with their particular projects. Bring the flea market back where it belongs as an important "shopping mall" for builders ( last time I was at OSH they had move the flea market back to somewhere near Green Bay and flea marketeers I talked to said many salvage yard guys couldn't afford the higher EAA fees for a place). Second issue- Why didn't the EAA provide the original e-forum for these diverse e-discussion groups? Why should our usergroup find itself hosted by Matronics computers, how many other computers are hosting discussions on parasol winged aircraft anyway? Why is the Osprey usergroup hosted on a private builder's homecomputer in Canada? Or the Canardians hosted on Yahoo, with public domain information files on canard aircraft currently on a builder's home/business computer? The most logical computer node to host all of these usergroups was and is on the home mainframe in Oshkosh. A consolidated place to place search files on engines, avionics, various plans mods, past emails for keyword searches. The most logical place for all this new means of homebuilder communications is and was thru the EAA, but they decided they weren't interested or it was benign neglect. But the world ain't perfect, nuff said. Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska Cozy IV N64CY Osprey II N64SY Pietenpol N-1033B " But such is the constitution of my mind I cannot avoid forming an opinion", John Adams ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: It's slow , so I'll brag about my Mentor
Date: May 14, 2005
Walt, You're exactly on target with nifty postings to this discuss group. I had to forward your posting to my Piete co-rebuilder/owner Floyd in FL who's 80 year old hands look like your mentor's. Without Floyd's machinist skills making special metal parts on his milling machine I'd have never gotten any homebuilts built over the last 15 years. Gordon Bowen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2005
Subject: 35-year building program
In my last post about EAA, Oshkosh and Brodhead I kind of gave the impression that I've been working on my Piet for 35 years. That would be one of the lengthiest projects ever! Actually I just started building this past fall. Why did it take so long before starting? The usual reasons, I suppose: getting myself through college, new job, marriage, buying and paying for a house, raising kids, etc., etc. My wife and I still have two of three kids to put through college but I'm trying to work a Piet into the budget -- it's now or never, I guess. I'm not getting any younger, either. BTW -- today our #2 son, who is about to graduate from high school and plays varsity baseball, hit a nearly 400-foot over-the-center-field-fence 3-run homer! (Too bad the bases weren't loaded!). I mention that not to brag (okay, maybe a little) but I think it's important to keep priorities and balance day to day...I would have really kicked myself had I been at home working on landing gear parts and missed that moment! Hope to see you all at Brodhead this summer! Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2005
Subject: EAA/Oshkosh/Brodhead
From: rhartwig11(at)juno.com
>Just curious in a perfect world if we were going to start over again and >recreate what OSH used to be, just where would you put it? Mark, Paul Poberezny and Rudy Frasca are doing a good job of recreating those old fly-ins. Join the SAA and go to Urbana, IL June 10-12. ( Their website is: http://www.sportaviation.org/ ) It has one low-key concession that sells SAA hats, shirts, etc. No commercial vendors--just a lot of really nice folks who like to look at and talk airplanes.....and attend forums. The general public is not invited--you have to be an SAA member to attend. The SAA magazine, To Fly, is a trip down memory lane. Dick Hartwig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2005
From: Mark <aerialphotos(at)dp.net>
Subject: Re: EAA/Oshkosh/Brodhead
Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/14/2005 10:04:41 PM Central Standard Time, > aerialphotos(at)dp.net writes: > > Just curious in a perfect world if we were going to start over > again and > recreate what OSH used to be, just where would you put it? > > Mark, > How about Brodhead and Urbana ? > Hey Mark, I see in your screen name you do some aerial photography. > Do you have any advise for a rookie, about getting some good shots ?? > > Chuck G. Chuck you can email me off list if you want ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com>
Subject: GN-1 Aircamper
Date: May 15, 2005
Fellows: Just started to make fittings for Aircamper. I'd like to make all of this ship with simple tools at hand. Anybody got ideas, reccommendations, or references to construct the Joggled Strap (drawing 100-20, pg.6)? Looks like it can't be hammered. Alan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: GN-1 Aircamper
Date: May 15, 2005
a couple ways to do that strap. 1. don't joggle it - just let it flex up away from the fuse as it meets the fuse fitting 2. make the joggle less drastic. more of a lengthened "Z" bend than a joggle 3. cut the stap a little short and then weld a separate piece on each end overlapped on the strap to create a joggle. I'm going to use method #2 on my GN-1. DJ Vegh www.imagedv.com/aircamper N74DV Mesa, AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Lyscars To: Piet List Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 11:05 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Aircamper Fellows: Just started to make fittings for Aircamper. I'd like to make all of this ship with simple tools at hand. Anybody got ideas, reccommendations, or references to construct the Joggled Strap (drawing 100-20, pg.6)? Looks like it can't be hammered. Alan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: GN-1 Aircamper
<00f501c55985$8a69f750$0100a8c0@Desktop> DJ, This is interesting, for us non GN-1 builders,,,what's a Joggle? walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 2:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Aircamper a couple ways to do that strap. 1. don't joggle it - just let it flex up away from the fuse as it meets the fuse fitting 2. make the joggle less drastic. more of a lengthened "Z" bend than a joggle 3. cut the stap a little short and then weld a separate piece on each end overlapped on the strap to create a joggle. I'm going to use method #2 on my GN-1. DJ Vegh www.imagedv.com/aircamper N74DV Mesa, AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Lyscars To: Piet List Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 11:05 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Aircamper Fellows: Just started to make fittings for Aircamper. I'd like to make all of this ship with simple tools at hand. Anybody got ideas, reccommendations, or references to construct the Joggled Strap (drawing 100-20, pg.6)? Looks like it can't be hammered. Alan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Fortal Alloy
Date: May 15, 2005
I take a magazine entitled "Machinist's Workshop" Published by Village press in Traverse City, MI. In the Dec.04/Jan.05 issue, there was an article about a metal that was completely new to me. It appears to be an aluminum alloy and is called "Fortal".I made a table of properties comparing it to 6061 and to steel to send as an attachment to a posting, but the list cop at Matronics threw it out (too big). The table shows its' tensile strength to be 78,320 psi compared to 64,000 psi for 1020 steel.Shear strength is the same as 1020. Density is the same as 6061. Don't know about weldability, but the author of the article says it can be cut on an ordinary wood-cutting bandsaw. I would be glad to send a xerox copy of the article to anyone who will send me a SASE. I feel ignorant about this...I've been an engineer for the last 48 years..Where has this stuff been? A source for Fortal (I hate the name) is at http://www.mousebar.com/home.html ......Carl Vought/ 1324 Toney Dr., Huntsville, AL 35802 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
<003501c5599a$d2c35720$2cc5fea9@home>
Subject: Re: GN-1 Aircamper
Date: May 15, 2005
a joggle is a metalworking term. where you make 2 90=B0 bends very close to each other to form a "lip" here's a pic showing a joggle being made with a forming block and hammer www.imagedv.com/aircamper/joggle.jpg There is a strap that goes underneath the GN-1 fuse that connects the left wing strut fitting to the right one. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 3:09 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Aircamper DJ, This is interesting, for us non GN-1 builders,,,what's a Joggle? walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 2:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Aircamper a couple ways to do that strap. 1. don't joggle it - just let it flex up away from the fuse as it meets the fuse fitting 2. make the joggle less drastic. more of a lengthened "Z" bend than a joggle 3. cut the stap a little short and then weld a separate piece on each end overlapped on the strap to create a joggle. I'm going to use method #2 on my GN-1. DJ Vegh www.imagedv.com/aircamper N74DV Mesa, AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Lyscars To: Piet List Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 11:05 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Aircamper Fellows: Just started to make fittings for Aircamper. I'd like to make all of this ship with simple tools at hand. Anybody got ideas, reccommendations, or references to construct the Joggled Strap (drawing 100-20, pg.6)? Looks like it can't be hammered. Alan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com>
Subject: Re: GN-1 Aircamper
Date: May 15, 2005
Thanx, DJ. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 3:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Aircamper a couple ways to do that strap. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: drag reduction
Date: May 15, 2005
Chuck "baby oil" Gantzer wrote- >Working on 'Drag Reduction Mod' on my plane. >I'm cutting foam airfoils for all the round tubing, then cover it with >UltraCoat >model airplane heat shrink covering. You know there is an easier way to do this, right? The ultralight guys came up with a molded plastic streamline "tubing" that slips on over round tubing. It's available through the ultralight supply houses in two different sizes for two different ranges of steel tube sizes. It's paintable, and of course can be slipped off the steel tube if need arises later. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
From: "Dave Esslinger" <aquanaut(at)indy.rr.com>
Subject: Spars
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dave Esslinger" Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings and I'm looking for suggestions. My spars are built with a one inch wide opening per the plans but the supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing call for 3/4" spar material. I see no reason to not use 1" material except the price. Aircraft Spruce wants about 600.00 for the spar material and before I fork out that kind of money I wanted to see if that's the best way to go. It seems like a shame to pay for all that spruce and then route almost half of it out. Has anyone done a laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would certainly be strong enough. Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to widening the center section? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
Subject: EAA/Oshkosh/Brodhead
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
I too was there in 1970 (I believe that was the first year the EAA was in Oshkosh, having been booted out by Rockford). I was 17, with a brand new Private Pilot's license, and flew a Cherokee Six up from Tennesse. I still remember all the oil they poured into Hoover's Aero Commander Shrike after his airshow performance. I vowed then to one day fly my own homebuilt to Oshkosh. Hope to do it this summer after the big fly in at Brodhead. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Bowen Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EAA/Oshkosh/Brodhead Good memories Fred. I hope the teenaged kid that goes to Oshkosh this year will have some good memories like you still do 35 years later. It's still hard to believe what Hoover could do with that AeroC, even if it was the seeds of commercialization taking root at the homebuilder's convention. Wolfe- "you can't go home anymore" (or something like that, in Return of the Native), the Old EAA ain't no more. If you find those grass roots still lingering at Airventure '05, please let me know. Perhaps I would trade several glorious Alaskan summer days for a trip back to see the EAA as it use to, but suspect we'll have to rely on Homebuilder sponsored/organized events like Brodhead or the Canardians Rough River KY fly-ins to get the grass root started in a field laid fallow by commerical interests of HQ. So much for trips down memorie lane..................Get that Piete out the door, 35 years is too long for a building program. Gordon Bowen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Spars
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Peter W Johnson" Dave, Check out http://www.cpc-world.com. I have used a built up spar. A lot cheaper than a solid one! Cheers Peter Wonthaggi, Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Esslinger Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spars --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dave Esslinger" Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings and I'm looking for suggestions. My spars are built with a one inch wide opening per the plans but the supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing call for 3/4" spar material. I see no reason to not use 1" material except the price. Aircraft Spruce wants about 600.00 for the spar material and before I fork out that kind of money I wanted to see if that's the best way to go. It seems like a shame to pay for all that spruce and then route almost half of it out. Has anyone done a laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would certainly be strong enough. Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to widening the center section? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Spars
In a message dated 5/16/05 6:30:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time, aquanaut(at)indy.rr.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dave Esslinger" Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings and I'm looking for suggestions. My spars are built with a one inch wide opening per the plans but the supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing call for 3/4" spar material. I see no reason to not use 1" material except the price. Aircraft Spruce wants about 600.00 for the spar material and before I fork out that kind of money I wanted to see if that's the best way to go. It seems like a shame to pay for all that spruce and then route almost half of it out. Has anyone done a laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would certainly be strong enough. Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to widening the center section? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. mark markle built a plywood i beam spar that's awsome and pretty simple ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Removing coating from 4130
How do you guys remove that black coating from your 4130 tubing? I am assuming it all has to be removed prior to priming. I have been removing it with a wire wheel up to now but that can take a long time on an eight foot piece of flying strut. -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
From: "Frank Metcalfe" <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Removing coating from 4130
A light sand cloth works great. you can get this at Home Depot in plumming. You can shine it up and sand blast your weld joints. I found this to the easyest and fastest meathod. You can kinda shoe shine the cloth around the tubing. Works great. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:17 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Removing coating from 4130 How do you guys remove that black coating from your 4130 tubing? I am assuming it all has to be removed prior to priming. I have been removing it with a wire wheel up to now but that can take a long time on an eight foot piece of flying strut. -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
Subject: Removing coating from 4130
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
I used a beadblast cabinet for all the parts that were small enough to fit in the cabinet. I used a sandblaster for the long/big parts (lift struts, axle and engine mount). Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- Subject: Pietenpol-List: Removing coating from 4130 How do you guys remove that black coating from your 4130 tubing? I am assuming it all has to be removed prior to priming. I have been removing it with a wire wheel up to now but that can take a long time on an eight foot piece of flying strut. =09 -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Fred B's post
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Wow Fred-- great post. You got to hand Frank Tallman his chute ? Too cool. My first year was 1978 with two other 'just out of high school a year' buddies and I was blown away. Karen and I had a super time at Galesburg about 10 years ago for the Stearman fly-in. There were 100 Stearmans there and they were the nicest folks......chairs and dogs sitting under the shade. Very relaxing event. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: drag reduction ideas
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Remove your windshields Chuck for some drag reduction and slip down low in the seat:)) Kidding of course, but it would work. Try waxing your wing too, really. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: spar idea
Dave-- see attached chicken-scratch drawing on how I did mine...and how I would do them in the future. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: what I really miss at airshows.......
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy You know there are a ton of good performers at shows today but the people I miss seeing are: 1) Art School 2) Bob Hoover 3) Duane Cole 4) Bob Herendeen 5) Danielle Heligon and Montaine Mallet 6) Leo Loudenslager 7) Charlie Hillard 8) Wayne Handley Mike C do not archive ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
Subject: what I really miss at airshows.......
From: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Textor, Jack" Boy, you said it Mike. Those folks were great! Jack Textor Des Moines do not archive You know there are a ton of good performers at shows today but the people I miss seeing are: 1) Art School 2) Bob Hoover 3) Duane Cole 4) Bob Herendeen 5) Danielle Heligon and Montaine Mallet 6) Leo Loudenslager 7) Charlie Hillard 8) Wayne Handley Mike C do not archive ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Removing coating from 4130
Try first wiping with naptha, then sand with emery cloth. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:17 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Removing coating from 4130 How do you guys remove that black coating from your 4130 tubing? I am assuming it all has to be removed prior to priming. I have been removing it with a wire wheel up to now but that can take a long time on an eight foot piece of flying strut. -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Spars
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" Dave Are you located anywhere with driving distance of Madison, Wi. If so, Mc Cormak lumber is a great deal on spar stock. Great people to deal with also. Less than 1/2 price of ASC. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Esslinger" <aquanaut(at)indy.rr.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spars > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dave Esslinger" > > > Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings and I'm looking for suggestions. > My spars are built with a one inch wide opening per the plans but the > supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing call for 3/4" spar material. I see > no reason to not use 1" material except the price. Aircraft Spruce wants > about 600.00 for the spar material and before I fork out that kind of > money > I wanted to see if that's the best way to go. It seems like a shame to pay > for all that spruce and then route almost half of it out. Has anyone done > a > laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would certainly be strong enough. > Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to widening the center section? > Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. > Thanks, Dave > --- > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
Subject: Re: what I really miss at airshows.......
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Hofmann Mikey, Add Bob Lyjack to that list for me. Back active on the list and working the T-Craft this spring...finally. Jack Phillips, you about ready for the air again? I will email you off list later tonight or tomorrow. TakeCare, -john- > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > You know there are a ton of good performers at shows today but the people I > miss seeing > are: > > 1) Art School > 2) Bob Hoover > 3) Duane Cole > 4) Bob Herendeen > 5) Danielle Heligon and Montaine Mallet > 6) Leo Loudenslager > 7) Charlie Hillard > 8) Wayne Handley > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Spars
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dave, I have an article from an early 1960's Sport Aviation on designing a built-up spar. I'll send out a copy to anyone who sends an SASE to: Greg Cardinal 5236 Shoreview Ave. So. Minneapolis, MN 55417 > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dave > Esslinger" > > Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings > and I'm looking for suggestions. > My spars are built with a one inch wide > opening per the plans but the > supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing > call for 3/4" spar material. I see > no reason to not use 1" material except the > price. Aircraft Spruce wants > about 600.00 for the spar material and > before I fork out that kind of money > I wanted to see if that's the best way to > go. It seems like a shame to pay > for all that spruce and then route almost > half of it out. Has anyone done a > laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would > certainly be strong enough. > Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage > to widening the center section? > Any help or suggestions would be > appreciated. > Thanks, Dave > --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
;
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Spars
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Dave, I am building box-like spars. They will have 1/2" by 1" spruce top and bottom beams with a 1/8" birch plywood sandwich. They will have 1/2" by 1" spruce diagonals and uprights at each rib location (the diagonals will be similar to the pattern used in the ribs). My spars will be 3/4" wide by 4 1/4" high when completed. The will be lighter but should be as strong as solid routed spars. I have built some test sections and I am very impressed with the strength of this type of spar. The three foot center section just allows you to have a larger fuel tank in the upper wing. I see no reason you can't build a 1" wide box-spar. Perhaps you could build a test section and evaluate it for strength. Doc > > > > Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings and I'm > looking for suggestions. > > My spars are built with a one inch wide opening > per the plans but the > > supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing call for > 3/4" spar material. I see > > no reason to not use 1" material except the price. > Aircraft Spruce wants > > about 600.00 for the spar material and before I > fork out that kind of > > money > > I wanted to see if that's the best way to go. It > seems like a shame to pay > > for all that spruce and then route almost half of > it out. Has anyone done > > a > > laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would > certainly be strong enough. > > Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to > widening the center section? > > Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Dave > > --- > (http://www.grisoft.com). > Date: 2/14/2005 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Spars
Dave, I think you meant your Ribs were built with 1" opening. That's the way I built mine too. However, I used 3/4" X 4 3/4" Douglas Fir spars (quarter sawn), and used 1/8" plywood shims, front and back, at each rib location - to maintain the spar location according to plans. As far as widening the center section, the advantage would be to be able to carry more fuel in the wing. The BIG Disadvantage is the multitude of things that will change as a result. Bill Rewey widened his center section, and goes to Brodhead every year. He would be the one to talk with, if you are really serious about widening your center section. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: drag reduction ideas
In a message dated 5/16/2005 12:54:59 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes: Remove your windshields Chuck for some drag reduction and slip down low in the seat:)) Kidding of course, but it would work. Try waxing your wing too, really. Mike C. do not archive Mike, Yeah, I considered the windshield thing, but then I couldn't see the sights !! :) I routinely wax the leading edge of my wing, and on the top back to to the edge of the plywood. I also wax the prop. It reduces drag, and also helps when removing bug guts. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Bob Lyjack
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy WOW John Hoffman---- Bob Lyjack was incredible. Is he still kicking do you know ? I loved that snap roll on takeoff with that big old taperwing huffing more smoke than either Chuck or I could ever hope to generate ! At the Cleveland Airshow in the late 1960's as a kid I recall some kind of biplane that was called the Mennen Special. It was sponsored by the Mennen after shave producers and they mixed the after shave with the smoke oil so every time he made a pass during his routine (was it Kent Pietcsh ?) you'd get a whiff of the after shave. I apologize for mis-spelling Art Scholl's name in my previous posting. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Spars
Bill sells plans for his 3 foot CC and other real handy Piet building hints for a few bucks. His address is in the archives. On 5/16/05, Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > > Dave, > I think you meant your Ribs were built with 1" opening. > That's the way I built mine too. However, I used 3/4" X 4 3/4" Douglas Fir > spars (quarter sawn), and used 1/8" plywood shims, front and back, at each > rib location - to maintain the spar location according to plans. > As far as widening the center section, the advantage would be to be able > to carry more fuel in the wing. The *BIG* Disadvantage is the multitude of > things that will change as a result. Bill Rewey widened his center section, > and goes to Brodhead every year. He would be the one to talk with, if you > are really serious about widening your center section. > Chuck G. > NX770CG > -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2005
Subject: Re: Bob Lyjack
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Hofmann Mike, As an impressionable youth in the late 70s I always remember "Professor Bob Lyjack in the WACO Taperwing." I still hear the announcer call in my head. I did see his last performance in about 1991 and I think he is still with us. I used to love watching the reaction of people to that double-snap on takeoff with all that smoke and noise....and lack of airpseed. I still get goose bumps thinking of it. Bobby Younkin does a recent version the same in Samson. I remember the "Mennen Skin Bracer Special" too. I want to think that was "Big Nick" Rezich. Vintage Airplane is running a bunch of articles written by Nick in the mid-70s and his brother Frank is still working on Travel Airs in California. -john- P.S. I think the Fisherman does the same routine in his Ercoupe.... Do not archive. > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > WOW John Hoffman---- Bob Lyjack was incredible. Is he still kicking do > you know ? > > I loved that snap roll on takeoff with that big old taperwing huffing more > smoke than either Chuck or I could ever > hope to generate ! > > At the Cleveland Airshow in the late 1960's as a kid I recall some kind of > biplane that was called the Mennen Special. > It was sponsored by the Mennen after shave producers and they mixed the > after shave with the smoke oil so every time > he made a pass during his routine (was it Kent Pietcsh ?) you'd get a whiff > of the after shave. > > I apologize for mis-spelling Art Scholl's name in my previous posting. > > Mike C. > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2005
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: Brodhead
I'm wondering where I can find information on the fly-in at Brodhead this year if there is going to be one? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2005
From: FTLovley(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Bob Lyjack
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: FTLovley(at)aol.com The pilot for Mennen was Ed (Big Ed) Mahler flying a PJ-260. He later died in the airplane because he disregarded a broken tail strut that he didn't think he needed. Forrest Lovley ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2005
Subject: Re: Bob Lyjack
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Hofmann Thanks for the clarification Forrest. I do remember that now. Too many "Big Ed's" running around back then. I am in the slow process of digitizing the old "American Airman" magazine. There are some great articles that I hope others will enjoy. Anyway, there are a couple of pieces about Bob Lyjack as a young man soloing in a Ryan ST with another airshow great, Bill Barber, as his instructor. I hope to have this project done before I am dead...along with the T-Craft, Pietenpol, Travel Air, lawn, garden, bathroom, paint the porch, run the business... -john- > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: FTLovley(at)aol.com > > The pilot for Mennen was Ed (Big Ed) Mahler flying a PJ-260. He later died > in the airplane because he disregarded a broken tail strut that he didn't > think > he needed. > Forrest Lovley > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2005
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Bob Lyjack
<5.1.1.5.2.20050517090251.01898c78(at)popserve.grc.nasa.gov> Bud Granley at Arlington- takeoff snaproll in Harvard ( T-6). Back in the Harvard's military days the mechanics would run these things straight at the hanger then at the precisely right moment slam the rudder and this 5000 lb monster would pirouette on the spot and roll right straight backwards into it's parking spot among the others. I dismissed this as one of those hanger tale stories until I saw Bud do it to park between a Yak and his sons Harvard on the flight line at a local airshow. I still don't believe it! Clif do not archive > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > WOW John Hoffman---- Bob Lyjack was incredible. Is he still kicking do > you know ? > > I loved that snap roll on takeoff with that big old taperwing huffing more > smoke than either Chuck or I could ever hope to generate > do not archive ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2005
From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Spars
In a message dated 5/16/05 6:02:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time, gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dave, I have an article from an early 1960's Sport Aviation on designing a built-up spar. I'll send out a copy to anyone who sends an SASE to: Greg Cardinal 5236 Shoreview Ave. So. Minneapolis, MN 55417 > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dave > Esslinger" > > Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings > and I'm looking for suggestions. > My spars are built with a one inch wide > opening per the plans but the > supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing > call for 3/4" spar material. I see > no reason to not use 1" material except the > price. Aircraft Spruce wants > about 600.00 for the spar material and > before I fork out that kind of money > I wanted to see if that's the best way to > go. It seems like a shame to pay > for all that spruce and then route almost > half of it out. Has anyone done a > laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would > certainly be strong enough. > Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage > to widening the center section? > Any help or suggestions would be > appreciated. > Thanks, Dave > --- mark markle sent me pics of your plane its awsome i love the wicker seats.tom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2005
From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Subject: spars
i got a set of plans from a friend of the british box spars and quick connects, they need some work but are useable im going to copy and redraft them if anyone wants a set let me know i just want the cost of copying them tom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2005
From: "Dave Esslinger" <aquanaut(at)indy.rr.com>
Subject: spar idea
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dave Esslinger" Mike C. thanks for the sketch. You cut out the back of your center section, I'm guessing for ease of getting in and out. Would you do it again? And could you share the basics of what you did? Thanks to all for the help. Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: spar idea Dave-- see attached chicken-scratch drawing on how I did mine...and how I would do them in the future. Mike C. --- --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2005
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fortal Alloy
I do metal casting and machining at home for a hobby. I've subscribed to Home Shop Machinist (one of Machinist's Workshop's sister publications) since the early 90's. As part of this hobby, I try to keep my eye out for interesting tools and materials. I first saw Fortal the one time I went to Oshkosh in '99. It looked to me like they were selling short cuts from somebody else's manufacturing. I bought a chunk of it then to machine and play with, but it's in my raw stock pile and I honestly haven't touched it. Those few times I checked, there's always a pile of it for sale on ebay. My education is engineering in digital / electronics, not metallurgy, but I try to understand it enough for my hobby needs. Someday I'll teach myself some serious metallurgy and material properties analysis, but for now, I fake it. It grated on me then that they seemed to hide the alloy designation behind the name, as if they were trying to sell me tap water. When I first saw it, the material sounded a little magical, but I'm not about to waste my time setting up and machining a critical part without knowing some of the basic material properties of the raw stock. Somewhere, somehow, I ended up with a booklet on Fortal from a company called Superior Die Set Corp (I just dug it out of my mess and have it in front of me). As best I can tell, it looks to me like the stuff is 7175 aluminum. Do a web seach on 7175 mechanical properties and see if what you find matches your data. Jim Ash >I take a magazine entitled "Machinist's Workshop" Published by Village >press in Traverse City, MI. In the Dec.04/Jan.05 issue, there was an >article about a metal that was completely new to me. It appears to be an >aluminum alloy and is called "Fortal".I made a table of properties >comparing it to 6061 and to steel to send as an attachment to a posting, >but the list cop at Matronics threw it out (too big). The table shows its' >tensile strength to be 78,320 psi compared to 64,000 psi for 1020 >steel.Shear strength is the same as 1020. Density is the same as 6061. >Don't know about weldability, but the author of the article says it can be >cut on an ordinary wood-cutting bandsaw. I would be glad to send a xerox >copy of the article to anyone who will send me a SASE. I feel ignorant >about this...I've been an engineer for the last 48 years..Where has this >stuff been? A source for Fortal (I hate the name) is at ><http://www.mousebar.com/home.html..... >..Carl>http://www.mousebar.com/home.html ......Carl Vought/ 1324 Toney >Dr., Huntsville, AL 35802 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2005
Subject: Box Spar
From: rhartwig11(at)juno.com
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11(at)juno.com Doc, You may want to have an engineer check out your plans for a box spar. I ran your numbers on a spar strength calculator. It indicated that your spar would be less than half the strength of the 3/4 X 4 3/4" Pietenpol spar. I used 4 3/4" height for your finished spar (I assumed that the 4 1/4" in your post was a typo.) with 1" high X 1/2" wide caps and 2 webs of 1/8 " ply. Also, I haven't seen diagonals on box spars. Built up spars usually depend on the plywood to take those loads--the most preferred method being to have the ply grain at 45 degrees, but 90 degrees seems to be satisfactory for most designers. Dick Hartwig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2005
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: spars
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." Hi Tom..I would like a copy of the British spar plans. I tried to buy a set from the English guys a few years ago but the designer was afraid to sell them in the States because of our illustrious legal system..How did you get a hold of a set??..They look like a great way to go for spars and they're well proven..I'm going to build my wings this summer...let me know what you need to cover the copying... Thanks Ed Grentzer West Coast, Florida Do not archive >From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: spars >Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 02:48:07 EDT > >i got a set of plans from a friend of the british box spars and quick >connects, they need some work but are useable im going to copy and redraft >them if >anyone wants a set let me know i just want the cost of copying them > tom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2005
;
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Box Spar
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Thanks Dick, I had an engineer friend of mine over last Sat. and had him look over the project. We discussed the spar design in detail. He said the diagonals sandwiched with the skins would add plenty of strength to the spars. The diagonals will be approximately 45 degrees to the horizontal beams and will help translate the loading stresses, along with the skins, to even out these stresses over the length of the spars. I am also considering filling in the voids between these internal members with 1/2" balsa sheets, cut to shape, which adds little weight but seems to increase the strength of the sandwich design by quite a bit by simply adding more gluing surface. Plus, remember I am building not a Pietenpol monoplane wing, but a Curtiss JN-4 2 bay biplane wing so the spars will be carrying far less stress per span than the monoplane design. I appreciate your feedback on this and welcome all the help I can get. Doc --- rhartwig11(at)juno.com wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: > rhartwig11(at)juno.com > > Doc, > You may want to have an engineer check out your > plans for a box spar. I > ran your numbers on a spar strength calculator. It > indicated that your > spar would be less than half the strength of the 3/4 > X 4 3/4" Pietenpol > spar. I used 4 3/4" height for your finished spar > (I assumed that the 4 > 1/4" in your post was a typo.) with 1" high X 1/2" > wide caps and 2 webs > of 1/8 " ply. Also, I haven't seen diagonals on box > spars. Built up > spars usually depend on the plywood to take those > loads--the most > preferred method being to have the ply grain at 45 > degrees, but 90 > degrees seems to be satisfactory for most designers. > Dick Hartwig > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2005
;
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Spars
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Hi Greg, I am going to send you an SASE for the article. I appreciate you doing this. What size envelope will you need? Thanks. Doc DO NOT ARCHIVE --- TRichmo9(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/16/05 6:02:15 P.M. Central > Daylight Time, > gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com writes: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: > > > Dave, > I have an article from an early 1960's Sport > Aviation on designing a built-up > spar. > I'll send out a copy to anyone who sends an > SASE to: > > Greg Cardinal > 5236 Shoreview Ave. So. > Minneapolis, MN 55417 > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mark markle sent me pics of your plane its awsome i > love the wicker seats.tom > Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2005
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Spars
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: A #10 envelope will be just fine. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galen Hutcheson" <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spars > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen > Hutcheson > > Hi Greg, > > I am going to send you an SASE for the > article. I > appreciate you doing this. What size > envelope will > you need? Thanks. > > Doc > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > --- TRichmo9(at)aol.com wrote: > >> >> In a message dated 5/16/05 6:02:15 P.M. >> Central >> Daylight Time, >> gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com writes: >> >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: >> >> >> Dave, >> I have an article from an early 1960's >> Sport >> Aviation on designing a built-up >> spar. >> I'll send out a copy to anyone who sends >> an >> SASE to: >> >> Greg Cardinal >> 5236 Shoreview Ave. So. >> Minneapolis, MN 55417 >> >> >> >> >> >> > --- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> mark markle sent me pics of your plane its >> awsome i >> love the wicker seats.tom >> > > > Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, > news and more. Check it out! > http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html > > > Forum - > Navigator to browse > Subscriptions page, > Browse, Chat, FAQ, > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2005
;
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Spars
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Thanks Greg, I will get it in the mail. Doc Do Not Archive --- gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: > > > A #10 envelope will be just fine. > > Greg > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Galen Hutcheson" <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 10:54 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spars > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen > > Hutcheson > > > > Hi Greg, > > > > I am going to send you an SASE for the > > article. I > > appreciate you doing this. What size > > envelope will > > you need? Thanks. > > > > Doc > > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > --- TRichmo9(at)aol.com wrote: > > > >> > >> In a message dated 5/16/05 6:02:15 P.M. > >> Central > >> Daylight Time, > >> gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com writes: > >> > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: > >> > >> > >> Dave, > >> I have an article from an early 1960's > >> Sport > >> Aviation on designing a built-up > >> spar. > >> I'll send out a copy to anyone who sends > >> an > >> SASE to: > >> > >> Greg Cardinal > >> 5236 Shoreview Ave. So. > >> Minneapolis, MN 55417 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --- > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> mark markle sent me pics of your plane its > >> awsome i > >> love the wicker seats.tom > >> > > > > > > > > > > Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, > > news and more. Check it out! > > http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html > > > > > > > > Forum - > > Navigator to browse > > Subscriptions page, > > Browse, Chat, FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2005
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: spars
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Peter W Johnson" Hi Guys, My plans from Jim Wills (UK) cost GBP120.00 Cheers Peter Wonthaggi, Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed G. Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spars --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." Hi Tom..I would like a copy of the British spar plans. I tried to buy a set from the English guys a few years ago but the designer was afraid to sell them in the States because of our illustrious legal system..How did you get a hold of a set??..They look like a great way to go for spars and they're well proven..I'm going to build my wings this summer...let me know what you need to cover the copying... Thanks Ed Grentzer West Coast, Florida Do not archive >From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: spars >Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 02:48:07 EDT > >i got a set of plans from a friend of the british box spars and quick >connects, they need some work but are useable im going to copy and redraft >them if >anyone wants a set let me know i just want the cost of copying them > tom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2005
From: "Jim Malley" <jgmalley(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Bob Lyjack
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Malley" Big Ed was well known in northern Jersey, his brother, Bob, still flies out of Alexandria Field, that's where George Mennen had his aircraft (a beat-up Luscombe, if I remember right). Anyhow, George sponsored Ed, keeping him supplied with enough aftershave to seduce a countryside. Ed was the first person to encourage me to build my own plane. Nice that he's remembered by others as well. Jim Malley ----- Original Message ----- From: <FTLovley(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bob Lyjack > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: FTLovley(at)aol.com > > The pilot for Mennen was Ed (Big Ed) Mahler flying a PJ-260. He later died > in the airplane because he disregarded a broken tail strut that he didn't think > he needed. > Forrest Lovley > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2005
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Fortal Alloy
http://www.supdie.com/publications/pdf/fm-v3.pdf Is this the same as the booklet you have? Clif Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fortal Alloy Somewhere, somehow, I ended up with a booklet on Fortal from a company called Superior Die Set Corp (I just dug it out of my mess and have it in front of me). As best I can tell, it looks to me like the stuff is 7175 aluminum. Jim Ash ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2005
From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Subject: spars
just foe everyones info the plans ive got have no trademarks names or show anywhere on them who or where they were drafted. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2005
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Fortal Alloy
<005201c55c0d$05e04040$60705118@dawsonaviation> I knew I had this somewhere. Looking through their listings for the 7175 range you mentioned, this seems the closest and the alloy composition Superior lists falls within the range listed here too. Ah, the wonders of marketing. A rose by any other name....... http://www.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnumMA7175T736 Clif Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fortal Alloy http://www.supdie.com/publications/pdf/fm-v3.pdf Is this the same as the booklet you have? Clif Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fortal Alloy As best I can tell, it looks to me like the stuff is 7175 aluminum. Jim Ash ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2005
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fortal Alloy
Yep, down to the copyright date and document number on the back page. Jim ><http://www.supdie.com/publications/pdf/fm-v3.pdf>http://www.supdie.com/publications/pdf/fm-v3.pdf > >Is this the same as the booklet you have? > >Clif > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fortal Alloy >Somewhere, somehow, I ended up with a booklet on Fortal from a company >called Superior Die Set Corp (I just dug it out of my mess and have it in >front of me). As best I can tell, it looks to me like the stuff is 7175 >aluminum. > >Jim Ash ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2005
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fortal Alloy
<005201c55c0d$05e04040$60705118@dawsonaviation> I know enough metallurgy to know that small-percentage changes in alloy content can make for large changes in material properties, but I couldn't begin to identify which components do what (or better yet, how). Be that as it may, I did some monkey-see, monkey-do with this information, and Fortal pretty much ran dead-nuts up the middle of the alloy content ranges for 7175, just like you saw. None of this says there's anything wrong with Fortal. I haven't priced straight-up 7175 raw stock to see how his prices compare, but I have to wonder how many people have gotten suckered into believing this stuff is some kind of magic from another planet. I like roses... Jim Ash >I knew I had this somewhere. Looking through their listings for the 7175 >range you mentioned, this seems the closest and the alloy composition >Superior lists falls within the range listed here too. >Ah, the wonders of marketing. A rose by any other name....... > > ><http://www.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA7175T736>http://www.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA7175T736 > >Clif > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: CC cutout
Dave-- I would do the cutout again for sure. The hand hold comes in very handy too in getting in and out and in getting up to the baggage in my CC. I basically glued a 1/4" piece of plywood (flat-wise) to the rear of a false spar that I placed about 10" aft of the rear spar to the trailing edge. Glued the edges of this ply to the butt ribs of the CC. The ply piece had a sabre-sawed curvature of the cutout w/ a hand-hold cutout in it. The tops and bottom were faired w/ big blocks of balsa wood and 1/16" plywood. Photos enclosed. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pam
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Guys-- a friend was telling me he sprays PAM cooking stuff on his grill/front of his van when he travels long distances and I thought.....hmmm...I wonder if this wouldn't be bad to use on the prop, nosebowl, gear legs and wing leading edge ??? why not ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2005
From: "Frank Metcalfe" <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Pam
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Frank Metcalfe" I have a freind that sprays his plane with lemond Pleage. He swares that the bugs that do stick (down about 90%) wipe off with dry cloth. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pam --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Guys-- a friend was telling me he sprays PAM cooking stuff on his grill/front of his van when he travels long distances and I thought.....hmmm...I wonder if this wouldn't be bad to use on the prop, nosebowl, gear legs and wing leading edge ??? why not ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2005
From: <flyinhobo(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pam
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Frank, I'm in a partnership in a C-172 and we use Lemon Pledge all the time on the wing leading edges, windshield, and prop spinner and nose bowl it does help in removing the bugs and we have plenty of them in SC. Paul Carter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Metcalfe" <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pam > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Frank Metcalfe" > > I have a freind that sprays his plane with lemond Pleage. He swares that the > bugs that do stick (down about 90%) wipe off with dry cloth. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael D > Cuy > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 1:13 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pam > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > Guys-- a friend was telling me he sprays PAM cooking stuff on his > grill/front of his van when he travels long distances > and I thought.....hmmm...I wonder if this wouldn't be bad to use on the > prop, nosebowl, gear legs and wing leading edge ??? > > why not ! > > Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2005
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From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pam
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson I wiped my Pitts down each time I flew it with Lemon Pleage, the spray bottle, not the aerosol can, and it kept the plane looking freshly waxed all the time. The bugs are easy to get off too. Doc --- Frank Metcalfe wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Frank > Metcalfe" > > I have a freind that sprays his plane with lemond > Pleage. He swares that the > bugs that do stick (down about 90%) wipe off with > dry cloth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2005
From: "Dave Esslinger" <aquanaut(at)indy.rr.com>
Subject: CC cutout
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dave Esslinger" Mike, thanks for the photos and info. If your good with the idea, I'd like to fly over to Ohio sometime and pick your brain and look at your plane. I'm not sure what part of Ohio you live in but as long as it's got a grass strip or better that I can land a 170 on I'd like to make plans. Thanks for the help. Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: CC cutout Dave-- I would do the cutout again for sure. The hand hold comes in very handy too in getting in and out and in getting up to the baggage in my CC. I basically glued a 1/4" piece of plywood (flat-wise) to the rear of a false spar that I placed about 10" aft of the rear spar to the trailing edge. Glued the edges of this ply to the butt ribs of the CC. The ply piece had a sabre-sawed curvature of the cutout w/ a hand-hold cutout in it. The tops and bottom were faired w/ big blocks of balsa wood and 1/16" plywood. Photos enclosed. Mike C. --- --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2005
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pam
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson Virgin olive oil and lecithin, slippery stuff there Mike. Seeing as how both those things are so incredibly good for your internal workings a little on your wings can't hurt. Maybe you could go straight to the source. Buy a bottle of Extra Virgin Olive Oil.( I wonder how smoky it is? dual purpose? :-) ) and wipe it on. Although it will attract dirt and grunge. The Lemon Pledge appears to be mostly silicone ( outside of the water content, that is ). More slippery stuff! http://www.jdbrands.com/frameset.asp?sidebar=/msds/sidebar-func.asp&cArgs=topic%3DMSDS%20Info Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pam > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > Guys-- a friend was telling me he sprays PAM cooking stuff on his > grill/front of his van when he travels long distances > and I thought.....hmmm...I wonder if this wouldn't be bad to use on the > prop, nosebowl, gear legs and wing leading edge ??? > > why not ! > > Mike C. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2005
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pam
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash Somewhere I have a vague recollection of somebody else using Pledge to keep that plane lemony-fresh. Jim Ash >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Frank Metcalfe" > > >I have a freind that sprays his plane with lemond Pleage. He swares that the >bugs that do stick (down about 90%) wipe off with dry cloth. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael D >Cuy >Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 1:13 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pam > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > >Guys-- a friend was telling me he sprays PAM cooking stuff on his >grill/front of his van when he travels long distances >and I thought.....hmmm...I wonder if this wouldn't be bad to use on the >prop, nosebowl, gear legs and wing leading edge ??? > >why not ! > >Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2005
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pam
Pieters, On the subject of slippery stuff, I caution all to step lively when using Pride or Pledge or even Maquires fine wax. Usually on labels of products they furnish an 800 number for customer inquiries. I would certainly use the number before I used the product. What I'm trying to say is avoid any product containing silicone. After spending 48 years in the Piano business I can assure you that you will never be able to repaint a siliconed surface satisfactorily. Corky in warming up Louisiana ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Rear lower seatbelt attach advice
Have gone through the archieves looking for advice on rear lower seatbelt attachment and would like some advice. Sounds like most people just drill a 5/16" hole in the bottom longerons with 1/8" ply on both sides. Just want to make sure I am not weakening the longerons with these big holes. Also, which is better, drilling the holes horizontal or vertical? I believe Mike Cuy mentioned on his video that he just glued a and gusseted a block to the longerons and bolted the belts to that. Figured I would consult the GN-1 plans for some guidance and couldn't find a thing about it. Thanks -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2005
Subject: Rear lower seatbelt attach advice
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
FAA requires seatbelts to be attached to the main structure. With that in mind, I drilled the holes through the lower longerons and doublers. Put the holes in the horizontal plane, and drill them through the middle of the longeron (neutral axis) so they have minimal effect on the strength of the longeron. The seatbelts need to be capable of withstanding a 20 G load, so with a 200 lb pilot, that is a 4,000 lb load. Jack Phillips, PE Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development Clinical Technologies and Services Cardinal Health Creedmoor, NC (919) 528-5212 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rear lower seatbelt attach advice Have gone through the archieves looking for advice on rear lower seatbelt attachment and would like some advice. Sounds like most people just drill a 5/16" hole in the bottom longerons with 1/8" ply on both sides. Just want to make sure I am not weakening the longerons with these big holes. Also, which is better, drilling the holes horizontal or vertical? I believe Mike Cuy mentioned on his video that he just glued a and gusseted a block to the longerons and bolted the belts to that. Figured I would consult the GN-1 plans for some guidance and couldn't find a thing about it. Thanks -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2005
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Rear lower seatbelt attach advice
I ran a 1/8" cable from the tail wheel post with a "Y" to eachside of the seat and to the top for the shoulder harness. The inspector loved it. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 10:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rear lower seatbelt attach advice Have gone through the archieves looking for advice on rear lower seatbelt attachment and would like some advice. Sounds like most people just drill a 5/16" hole in the bottom longerons with 1/8" ply on both sides. Just want to make sure I am not weakening the longerons with these big holes. Also, which is better, drilling the holes horizontal or vertical? I believe Mike Cuy mentioned on his video that he just glued a and gusseted a block to the longerons and bolted the belts to that. Figured I would consult the GN-1 plans for some guidance and couldn't find a thing about it. Thanks -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2005
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Rear lower seatbelt attach advice
Rick, I reinforced the area around the seat. Check out http://www.cpc-world.com <http://www.cpc-world.com/> , Building photos page 2. Images are around image_0265.jpg. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi, Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rear lower seatbelt attach advice Have gone through the archieves looking for advice on rear lower seatbelt attachment and would like some advice. Sounds like most people just drill a 5/16" hole in the bottom longerons with 1/8" ply on both sides. Just want to make sure I am not weakening the longerons with these big holes. Also, which is better, drilling the holes horizontal or vertical? I believe Mike Cuy mentioned on his video that he just glued a and gusseted a block to the longerons and bolted the belts to that. Figured I would consult the GN-1 plans for some guidance and couldn't find a thing about it. Thanks -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rear lower seatbelt attach advice
Thanks Dick, but how did you attach your rear lap belts? On 5/20/05, Dick Navratil wrote: > > I ran a 1/8" cable from the tail wheel post with a "Y" to eachside of the > seat and to the top for the shoulder harness. > The inspector loved it. > Dick N. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Rick Holland > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Friday, May 20, 2005 10:25 AM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Rear lower seatbelt attach advice > > Have gone through the archieves looking for advice on rear lower seatbelt > attachment and would like some advice. Sounds like most people just drill a > 5/16" hole in the bottom longerons with 1/8" ply on both sides. Just want to > make sure I am not weakening the longerons with these big holes. Also, which > is better, drilling the holes horizontal or vertical? I believe Mike Cuy > mentioned on his video that he just glued a and gusseted a block to the > longerons and bolted the belts to that. > > Figured I would consult the GN-1 plans for some guidance and couldn't find > a thing about it. > > Thanks > > -- > Rick Holland > > -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2005
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pam
In a message dated 5/20/2005 6:45:22 AM Central Standard Time, Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes: What I'm trying to say is avoid any product containing silicone. After spending 48 years in the Piano business I can assure you that you will never be able to repaint a siliconed surface satisfactorily. I found the same thing to be true, when I used to paint cars. The wet paint would have hundreds of little 'fish eyes' in it. If you use a product from the local paint shop, called Fish Eyes (comes in a small brown bottle) it eliminates the problem. It's a small bottle with an eye dropper in it. You use one eyedropper full for each quart of mixed paint. Put it in right before you're ready to spray, and mix well. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2005
From: "Jim Thursby" <jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Pam
Problem with "fish eyes or smoothie" as it's also known as is it fights silicone with, more silicone! Silicone is not good for rubber or paint. I restored an MG midget years ago and could not get even primer or etch primer to stick to this cars body. I found out that the owner for years used pledge on the paint to make it shine. It contaminated the finish including the underlying steel. I had to have it acid dipped before I could get anything to stick to it. Use anything other than waxes or polishes on your bird at your own or the future owners risk. Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rcaprd(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 11:00 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pam In a message dated 5/20/2005 6:45:22 AM Central Standard Time, Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes: What I'm trying to say is avoid any product containing silicone. After spending 48 years in the Piano business I can assure you that you will never be able to repaint a siliconed surface satisfactorily. I found the same thing to be true, when I used to paint cars. The wet paint would have hundreds of little 'fish eyes' in it. If you use a product from the local paint shop, called Fish Eyes (comes in a small brown bottle) it eliminates the problem. It's a small bottle with an eye dropper in it. You use one eyedropper full for each quart of mixed paint. Put it in right before you're ready to spray, and mix well. Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ben Charvet" <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Anyone using a Pietenpol in MS flight simulator 2004?
Date: May 21, 2005
I found this site that has a pietenpol for MS Flight Simulator 2004. I have already downloaded a Piet for FS 98, but I'm afraid I've become a little spoiled by FS 2004. Has anyone tried this file? Here is the site: http://windrfters.com/Stinpage.htm Ben Ribs are done, 1 side of fuselage is finished ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Cleared for flight!
Date: May 21, 2005
NX18235 received it's special airworthiness certificate today. Weather was uncooperative for flight. Possible first flight on Monday, May 23rd. Greg "Go Flight" Cardinal Minneapolis ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2005
From: Ron Franck <franck(at)geneseo.net>
Subject: Mike Cuy's Piet?
I was just browsing through the Feb 2005 issue of Model Aviation. On page 90 there is a photo of a Piet that looks like Mike Cuy's. Is this old news, something I missed earlier? Or news to the group? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Peter Johnson's Piet
Date: May 21, 2005
Peter wrote- >Check out http://www.cpc-world.com If you guys haven't taken a look at Peter's website and construction, it's well worth it. What a beautiful piece of work! Check out the fuselage construction- it's classic. Very nice shop practices as well. Me, I spent a few hours working on repairs to 41CC. Pulled out the old ignition wiring and pulled in some shielded tefzel wire, in hopes of eliminating radio noise. Also pulled out the old carb heat control and am installing a new one. Varnished some of the wood repair parts in preparation for reassembly of the fuel tank and firewall. I needed an angle bracket to mount the new carb heat knob. What is really fun is when you need a bracket or part, just stepping into the shop, rummaging around to find a piece of wood or metal that looks right, cutting and grinding/sanding to shape, drilling the holes and countersinks, cleaning it up, a little paint, and -voila! Hang it up to bake and tomorrow it's ready to install. I made a bracket for the knob out of a piece of lightweight angle in the scrap bin, and now I have a nifty piece of an airplane. I love this experimental homebuilding stuff. Makes you feel sorry for the spam can guys who have to pay $$ for a TSO label on each part. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: May 22, 2005
Subject: Re: Pam
In a message dated 5/21/2005 12:39:37 PM Central Standard Time, jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com writes: Use anything other than waxes or polishes on your bird at your own or the future owners risk. How about Carnuba Was (sp?) ? I don't think it has silicone. Does anyone know of this, or any other wax, that Does Not have Silicone ? Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: Anyone using a Pietenpol in MS flight simulator 2004?
Date: May 21, 2005
Ben, We're using it on a flight sim at the museum I work at in Wichita, KS -- we've done a 1934 vs 2004 Wichita Airport setup with (2) sims side-by-side (not really "right" (WWBD??) 'cause the default flying field for the Piet is in West Virginia!! and the Piet has a 2 piece wing with a cutout -- nice engine sounds though!! ;-) Careful, it will keep you out of the shop! Mike C. Pretty Prairie, KS ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Charvet To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 3:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone using a Pietenpol in MS flight simulator 2004? I found this site that has a pietenpol for MS Flight Simulator 2004. I have already downloaded a Piet for FS 98, but I'm afraid I've become a little spoiled by FS 2004. Has anyone tried this file? Here is the site: http://windrfters.com/Stinpage.htm Ben Ribs are done, 1 side of fuselage is finished ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Date: May 22, 2005
Subject: Re: Cleared for flight!
Greg / Dale - Congratulations! If you need any ground support let me know and I'd be glad to help out. I know the weather around here has been so unpredictable lately... Good luck and may the force be with you. Tom Brant ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Thursby" <jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Pam
Date: May 22, 2005
Carnuba wax is fine. Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rcaprd(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 12:28 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pam In a message dated 5/21/2005 12:39:37 PM Central Standard Time, jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com writes: Use anything other than waxes or polishes on your bird at your own or the future owners risk. How about Carnuba Was (sp?) ? I don't think it has silicone. Does anyone know of this, or any other wax, that Does Not have Silicone ? Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Peter Johnson's Piet
Date: May 22, 2005
Thanks Oscar, Peter, Wonthaggi, Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Peter Johnson's Piet Peter wrote- >Check out http://www.cpc-world.com If you guys haven't taken a look at Peter's website and construction, it's well worth it. What a beautiful piece of work! Check out the fuselage construction- it's classic. Very nice shop practices as well. Me, I spent a few hours working on repairs to 41CC. Pulled out the old ignition wiring and pulled in some shielded tefzel wire, in hopes of eliminating radio noise. Also pulled out the old carb heat control and am installing a new one. Varnished some of the wood repair parts in preparation for reassembly of the fuel tank and firewall. I needed an angle bracket to mount the new carb heat knob. What is really fun is when you need a bracket or part, just stepping into the shop, rummaging around to find a piece of wood or metal that looks right, cutting and grinding/sanding to shape, drilling the holes and countersinks, cleaning it up, a little paint, and -voila! Hang it up to bake and tomorrow it's ready to install. I made a bracket for the knob out of a piece of lightweight angle in the scrap bin, and now I have a nifty piece of an airplane. I love this experimental homebuilding stuff. Makes you feel sorry for the spam can guys who have to pay $$ for a TSO label on each part. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2005
From: Edwin Johnson <elj(at)shreve.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Pam
> How about Carnuba Was (sp?) ? I don't think it has silicone. Does anyone > know of this, or any other wax, that Does Not have Silicone ? Real Carnuba is one of the hardest of natural waxes and used for floor wax in certain forms (Johnson & Johnson). Actually, real waxes have no silicone at all unless added my the manufacturer. Check out NuFinish for cars which I think can be bought now at common places, perhaps even Wal-Mart. I just picked up my bottle, which I use on my car and can't find ingredients on it, but believe I did some research into it years ago because of concerns in using silicone on my car. That said, I can't guarantee that and probably need to look at website information again. All the orange bottle says (believe there is more than one type now) is that it contains no wax and #1 rated by Consumer Magazine. Hmmmmm.... now I wonder. ...Edwin "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return."-- da Vinci ... www.shreve.net/~elj ________________________________________________________________________________ ;
Date: May 22, 2005
From: Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sport Pilot Tour
Like every EAA member (most likely), I got a mailing from EAA regarding the Sport Pilot Tour. It is coincidentally on the same weekend at the SAA get together at Urbana. Hmmmmmmmmm!!!! The location on the card I received was Smart Field at St. Charles (St.Louis area), MO. Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N925WB1(at)aol.com
Date: May 22, 2005
Subject: Re: Mike Cuy's Piet?
Ron, You're right. I saw it too, but never mentioned it. -Wayne In a message dated 5/21/2005 4:56:47 PM Central Daylight Time, franck(at)geneseo.net writes: I was just browsing through the Feb 2005 issue of Model Aviation. On page 90 there is a photo of a Piet that looks like Mike Cuy's. Is this old news, something I missed earlier? Or news to the group? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Rear lower seatbelt attach advice
Date: May 22, 2005
Rick The cable attaches to the tailwheel post, somewhere near the bellcrank assy there is a "Y" to the top of the turtle deck. There is a slot cut and the shoulder harness attaches behind the headrest. The other half of the "Y" goes forward to a second "Y" to each side of the lower seat and a slot is cut and the belt passes thru and joined with a shackle behind the seat. I have included a rough scetch. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 7:43 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rear lower seatbelt attach advice Thanks Dick, but how did you attach your rear lap belts? On 5/20/05, Dick Navratil wrote: I ran a 1/8" cable from the tail wheel post with a "Y" to eachside of the seat and to the top for the shoulder harness. The inspector loved it. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 10:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rear lower seatbelt attach advice Have gone through the archieves looking for advice on rear lower seatbelt attachment and would like some advice. Sounds like most people just drill a 5/16" hole in the bottom longerons with 1/8" ply on both sides. Just want to make sure I am not weakening the longerons with these big holes. Also, which is better, drilling the holes horizontal or vertical? I believe Mike Cuy mentioned on his video that he just glued a and gusseted a block to the longerons and bolted the belts to that. Figured I would consult the GN-1 plans for some guidance and couldn't find a thing about it. Thanks -- Rick Holland -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
"Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft"
Subject: don't grab your hot exhaust!
Date: May 22, 2005
like I did today. Ran the engine on the Aircamper for about 15 minutes today. Then I went to pull the plane in the garage and grabbed hold of the hot 500=B0 exhuast pipe with my right hand. OUCH! Instantly ran inside and ran cool water over my hand. Called my friend and asked her to take me to the hospital. I have 2nd degree burns over 50% of the inside of my right hand and partial 3rd degree on about 5%. wow is it painful! burns are the worst thing a human can experience. I am soo pissed off at myself for being so stupid. My right hand is pretty much useless for the next couple weeks... and that really sucks cause I am right handed. I'm taking Percocet for pain and they seem to take the edge off so thats good... I'm high as a kite as I type this (with my left hand!) Anyhow... I just wanted to vent my frustration with my Piet/Corvair friends. :( DJ Vegh ps the engine fired right up after sitting for almost 4 months. I love my Corvair!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cleared for flight!
Date: May 23, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Good luck, Greg! You will soon have the finest feeling in the world, flying your own Pietenpol built by your own hands. It just doesn't get any better. Jack Phillips, PE Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development Clinical Technologies and Services Cardinal Health Creedmoor, NC (919) 528-5212 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cleared for flight! NX18235 received it's special airworthiness certificate today. Weather was uncooperative for flight. Possible first flight on Monday, May 23rd. Greg "Go Flight" Cardinal Minneapolis ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: don't grab your hot exhaust!
Date: May 23, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Oh, man! That's gotta hurt! And there's nobody you can sue, but yourself. Sorry to hear about that DJ. It made me wince just to read your account. Jack Phillips, PE Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development Clinical Technologies and Services Cardinal Health Creedmoor, NC (919) 528-5212 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Subject: Pietenpol-List: don't grab your hot exhaust! like I did today. Ran the engine on the Aircamper for about 15 minutes today. Then I went to pull the plane in the garage and grabbed hold of the hot 500=B0 exhuast pipe with my right hand. OUCH! Instantly ran inside and ran cool water over my hand. Called my friend and asked her to take me to the hospital. I have 2nd degree burns over 50% of the inside of my right hand and partial 3rd degree on about 5%. wow is it painful! burns are the worst thing a human can experience. I am soo pissed off at myself for being so stupid. My right hand is pretty much useless for the next couple weeks... and that really sucks cause I am right handed. I'm taking Percocet for pain and they seem to take the edge off so thats good... I'm high as a kite as I type this (with my left hand!) Anyhow... I just wanted to vent my frustration with my Piet/Corvair friends. :( DJ Vegh ps the engine fired right up after sitting for almost 4 months. I love my Corvair!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Ford Air Camper in Tasmania, Australia
m> Congratulations on your sign-off Greg C. and Dale. Wooo-whooo ! Looking forward to hearing about your first flight. If you and Jack P. can make the Brodhead trip there will be at least two brand-spanking-new Air Campers there. On another note, good mate Simon McCormak in Tasmania, Australia sent me this photo of him giving one of his children a ride in his newly finished Ford A Air Camper. He's having a blast with it he says. He's got the ala Larry Williams brakes. Actually I think Larry has the ala Simon brakes. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Cleared for flight!
Date: May 23, 2005
Good goin' Greg and Dale. Who gets the honor of the first flight? Today looks a bit breezy. If you can post a bit in advance, I would like ro drive down and witness the first, if possible. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 4:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cleared for flight! NX18235 received it's special airworthiness certificate today. Weather was uncooperative for flight. Possible first flight on Monday, May 23rd. Greg "Go Flight" Cardinal Minneapolis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: don't grab your hot exhaust!
Date: May 23, 2005
Sorry about the burns DJ, but you can take heart in the fact you've actually got hot engine to accidentally grab hold of............my guess is about 80% of homebuilders of all flavors would be glad to actually have a plane with a hotable engine. Later on I'll get to vent about the outboard on my fishing boat.......that devil is always causing problems. Gordon Bowen ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ; Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 10:46 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: don't grab your hot exhaust! like I did today. Ran the engine on the Aircamper for about 15 minutes today. Then I went to pull the plane in the garage and grabbed hold of the hot 500=B0 exhuast pipe with my right hand. OUCH! Instantly ran inside and ran cool water over my hand. Called my friend and asked her to take me to the hospital. I have 2nd degree burns over 50% of the inside of my right hand and partial 3rd degree on about 5%. wow is it painful! burns are the worst thing a human can experience. I am soo pissed off at myself for being so stupid. My right hand is pretty much useless for the next couple weeks... and that really sucks cause I am right handed. I'm taking Percocet for pain and they seem to take the edge off so thats good... I'm high as a kite as I type this (with my left hand!) Anyhow... I just wanted to vent my frustration with my Piet/Corvair friends. :( DJ Vegh ps the engine fired right up after sitting for almost 4 months. I love my Corvair!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Ford Air Camper in Tasmania, Australia
Aaaahhh, the hairy tailwheel. A very good sign of a happy flyer from a grass runway. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ford Air Camper in Tasmania, Australia > Congratulations on your sign-off Greg C. and Dale. Wooo-whooo > ! Looking forward to hearing about > your first flight. If you and Jack P. can make the Brodhead trip there > will be at least two brand-spanking-new > Air Campers there. > > On another note, good mate Simon McCormak in Tasmania, Australia sent me > this photo of him giving one > of his children a ride in his newly finished Ford A Air Camper. He's > having a blast with it he says. He's got > the ala Larry Williams brakes. Actually I think Larry has the ala Simon > brakes. > > Mike C. ---- > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: A GOOD day at the airport
Date: May 23, 2005
NX18235 flies! 4 flights, 2.25 hours in the air. Chris Bobka at the controls. A couple of slight rigging adjustments to correct a heavy left wing and a left turning tendency. A-65 ran strong and cool. Full report to follow. Greg Cardinal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Date: May 24, 2005
Subject: Re: A GOOD day at the airport
Congrats Greg and Dale! I can't wait to see it in the air. Great day for it finally. Keep up the good work. Tom B. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "M&M Stanley" <tomiya(at)di.mbn.or.jp>
Subject: New Tasmanian Pietenpol
Date: May 24, 2005
Congratulations to Simon McCormack in Tasmania with his new Pietenpol ! I also received that photo of it in flight. The workmanship on his Piet is excellent and I think it looks like a Piet should look, (my opinion anyway!!) He said it has around 20 hours flight time on it now. The test flights went very well but he has installed some type of small elevator trim tab to light to get rid of some back pressure on the stick. He's a happy man ! I want to go and say G'day and see the finished product sometime. Simon is a really good bloke ( 'bloke' is Australian slang for 'a man'). Anyway. it's great to see it in the air instead of on the ground, plus a father and son flying together is a very good thing to see! So, Congratulations and have fun!! Mark Stanley Japan..................25 ribs and still going ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: A GOOD day at the airport
Date: May 24, 2005
Way to go, Greg and Dale!!!! Congratulations! Jack Phillips (about to do the first flight of NX899JP, again) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: A GOOD day at the airport NX18235 flies! 4 flights, 2.25 hours in the air. Chris Bobka at the controls. A couple of slight rigging adjustments to correct a heavy left wing and a left turning tendency. A-65 ran strong and cool. Full report to follow. Greg Cardinal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: A GOOD day at the airport
CONGRATULATIONS Dale and Greg !!! Fly off that time so weze can see youse at Brodhead !!! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________ ;
Date: May 24, 2005
From: AVIATION GROUP <aviationgrp(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Aviation News
AVIATION News is to view & share your valuable comments and the latest trends and happenings in the aviation industry. Please click on the attached yahoo group link site to share & receive the updates on the latest happenings, business ventures, business opportunities, Air Shows and Exhibitions, New Aircraft releases, and certifications, Career news, Appointments etc. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AVIATION-NEWS/ "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" wrote: Greg / Dale - Congratulations! If you need any ground support let me know and I'd be glad to help out. I know the weather around here has been so unpredictable lately... Good luck and may the force be with you. Tom Brant ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: First flight report
Date: May 24, 2005
Here is Chris Bobka's report on the first flights: The first flight report of the Pietenpol is as follows: 2:40 was flown in five flights this morning and afternoon. Wind was 1/2 to full quartering right headwind at a steady 10 kts. Field conditions were dry grass. Location was Stanton Field, near Northfield, Minnesota. The ship has spoked motorcycle wheels and tyres rolling on bronze bushings with no brakes and a tail skid. A straight axle and wrapped bungies provided suspension. The first flight was 45 minutes, second flight was about 20 minutes, third flight was about 25 minutes, fourth flight was 25 minutes and the fifth flight was 45 minutes. A few years ago I wrote a long dissertation on how to select the proper axle location with the 1929 style wooden gear legs installed on the long "Corvair" fuselage. I was right on the money in the analysis because at the aft CG loading that we had, the ship would perform flawlessly on the grass. Travelling 90 degrees to the 10 knot wind, I could turn into the wind by stick aft, windward rudder, and a burst of power and I could turn away from the wind by stick forward, lee rudder, and a burst of power. I was comfortable taxiing next to buildings and other aircraft with very little practice. I weigh 220 lbs and Greg computed that we needed 100 lbs of ballast in the forward bag compartment (aft of firewall above passenger's feet) to get loaded CG at .5" forward of arbitrary aft CG limit (greg will have to give you the datum and the CG range, etc.) The ship is powered by an A-65 freshly overhauled with a homemade wood prop that was made using a duplicating machine copying an old Sensenich W72C42 blade from about 50 years ago. The motor mount as originally made had TONS of down thrust and TONS of right thrust welded into it: like 1" in each direction over the length of the crank. The angle would be arctan(1/24) . This looked so far out that spools were fabricated and used to shim the motor back until it had "a little" right thrust and "a little" down thrust. On takeoff, a pronounced and uncomfortable tendency to turn left was observed which required a constant input of 1/2 right rudder at cruise settings and 3/4 right rudder at full power and climb speed. To let up on the rudder would invite a rapid yaw induced roll to the left. This kept me making almost all the turns into the rudder (to the right for those of you in Rio Linda). The aircraft is equipped with the highly calibrated Johnson wind vane type of airspeed indicator and it showed about 35-40 mph in the climb and about 55-60 flat out. The engine rpm in a moderate climb was 2100 indicated and the flat out rpm in level flight was 2220 rpm. The tach has not been calibrated. The rpms sounded right for 2150 or so in cruise and 2300 rpm (the correct number we want) level flat out. The left turning tendency is mitigated when power is brought back to idle. This fact identifies the problem to be a deficiency of right thrust at the motor mount and/or left offset of the vertical stabiliser. The aircraft flew well in the 1900 rpm range. I did not feel that much was gained by running the power up above 2100 rpm. Anyway, Greg and Dale's initial fix for this vicious left turning tendency will be first to offest the vertical stabiliser to the left to the maximum degree we can move it which is about 5/8" at the leading edge of the vertical stab. This fix will be instituted prior to the next flight. Then the spool spacer on the motor mount will be adjusted to take out the rest of the left turning tendency that we find remaining. Those of you still building, plan to allow for adjustment at the vertical stabiliser leading edge, a little to the right and a whole lot to the left. The A-65 equipped Piet is said to have increased vertical surface forward of the CG which offsets vertical surface aft of the CG. This is destabilizing in the vertical axis and appeares to be present with the aircraft reluctant to return to straight ahead after a yaw is induced. I will investigate this characteristic after the aircraf tis trimmed for hands and feet free flight. I would recommend that future Piet builders who plan to use an A-65 increase the size of their vertical stabilizer to help offset the increased vertical area forward of the CG with the A-65 installations. A little extra way aft has quite an effect..... Another tendency the ship displayed was a severe nosedropping tendency. This required a tiring constant pull on the stick of more than 6 lbs or so. Lettin go of the stick would hang me on the straps as the nose pitched over. This could be attributed to engine downthrust or to aerodynamics and needed further investigation. I found that the pull on the stick was independent of thrust produced. It is an aerodynamic issue that needs to be cured by either lowering the leading edge of the horizontal stabiliser or raising its trailing edge. This is difficult to do in practise as the Vi Kapler rudder hinges are reluctant to move up or down the rudder spar. Again, current builders, allow for the ability to raise or lower the leading edge of the horizontal stab by using shims at the forward attach point only. You may also need a space to exist between the bottom of the vertical stabilser and the centerline of the horizontal stab to allow for a slot where vertical positioning of the horizontal stab can be made. Just give some thought as to how you will allow the leading edge to be raised or lowered 1/2" or maybe even more after the ship is asssembled. Knowing that we had 100 lbs of ballast in the forward bag compartment, we removed 40 lbs of it and that relieved maybe 1/4 of the 6 lb pull on the stick. Greg was concerned that would put the ship aft of the arbitrary CG aft limit. However, poweroff stalls were performed both with 100 lbs and 60 lbs of ballast and in both cases the ship had no difficulty in lowering the nose to unstalled flight upon the slightest easing of aft stick pressure. When the stick was held full aft, gingerly use of the rudder could hold the ship in a falling leaf but you had to stay right on it with a good horizon. There was also a left wing heaviness that was mostly mitigated by shortening the left front strut by 1-1/2 turns and lengthening the right front strut by the same amount. As test flights go, the ship was moderately difficult to fly as it needed continuous substantial input in all three axes, gobs of right rudder, a lot of aft stick, and a bit of right stick. I tried taking pictures but gave up after three because I could not take pictures and fly at the same time. We will work through each item until the ship flies properly. Ideas, comments, and insights are welcome. Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
"Flitzer" , "Alan James" , "Pete Gavin" , "Paul Shenton" , "Steve Bryan" , "Peter Denny" , "Norm Tesmar" , "Dan Carroll" , "Greg" , "Dale Johnson" , "Gary Steadman" <gary.steadman@flitzer-aero.com>
Subject: more than what greg said: Pietenpol first flight report
Date: May 24, 2005
Greg likes to underestimate the situation... The first flight report of the Pietenpol is as follows:


April 27, 2005 - May 23, 2005

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