Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-en
June 24, 2005 - July 14, 2005
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-en
June 24, 2005 - July 14, 2005
The formula I've always used is 468/MHzlength in feet. This gives about .48
wavelength
to compensate for capacitance off the ends. I come up with 44.93 inches for the
entire
length of the antenna. Your description makes it about twice the length it should
be...
-Mac
>A dipole is the easiest of all antennas to make. Just calculate what one half
of the wavelength would be for the middle of the band you want to transmit in
- in this case, >about 125 MHz. Wavelength Speed of light / frequency, or
300,000,000/125,000,000, so the length needs to be 2.4 meters or 94-1/2". Make
each leg half of that, >solder each to one pole of a coaxial connector and
voila - one halfwave dipole antenna. It is best to tune it to the transmitter
and coax system you are using with an >SWR meter (any ham operator can help
you with this). Just trim the ends of the dipole to get the SWR (Standing Wave
Ratio) as close to 1:1 as possible.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: antenna question
Date: Jun 24, 2005
RE: Pietenpol-List: antenna questionyou can do 2, 4, 8, 16....progressive multiples
of the half wave length, I believe, for the length of the whip or the length
of one of the poles in a dipole. Or you can use fractions of the wavelengths
with the above numbers in the denominator such as 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16.....
That is why you can get by with the 1/8 length of the full wave on a handheld.
If I remember right, you can't do an even one wavelength. I forget why.
The commercial whips that you put on a metal ship are 1/4 wave in length. So would
be the antenna that comes with an ELT.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike McCarty
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: antenna question
An 8 ft dipole for 125 MHz just doesn't sound right. The entire antenna should
be half wave.
The formula I've always used is 468/MHzlength in feet. This gives about
.48 wavelength
to compensate for capacitance off the ends. I come up with 44.93 inches for
the entire
length of the antenna. Your description makes it about twice the length it should
be...
-Mac
>A dipole is the easiest of all antennas to make. Just calculate what one half
of the wavelength would be for the middle of the band you want to transmit
in - in this case, >about 125 MHz. Wavelength Speed of light / frequency,
or 300,000,000/125,000,000, so the length needs to be 2.4 meters or 94-1/2".
Make each leg half of that, >solder each to one pole of a coaxial connector and
voila - one halfwave dipole antenna. It is best to tune it to the transmitter
and coax system you are using with an >SWR meter (any ham operator can help
you with this). Just trim the ends of the dipole to get the SWR (Standing Wave
Ratio) as close to 1:1 as possible.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
<022701c578f6$f9f2e420$0301a8c0@north>
Subject: Re: antenna question
Date: Jun 24, 2005
RE: Pietenpol-List: antenna questionI contracidted myself. You could not do 2
times the 1/2 wavelength as this would make it a full wavelength which I am pretty
sure you can't do. Where is that old ARRL handbook....
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: antenna question
you can do 2, 4, 8, 16....progressive multiples of the half wave length, I believe,
for the length of the whip or the length of one of the poles in a dipole.
Or you can use fractions of the wavelengths with the above numbers in the
denominator such as 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16..... That is why you can get by with
the 1/8 length of the full wave on a handheld.
If I remember right, you can't do an even one wavelength. I forget why.
The commercial whips that you put on a metal ship are 1/4 wave in length. So
would be the antenna that comes with an ELT.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike McCarty
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: antenna question
An 8 ft dipole for 125 MHz just doesn't sound right. The entire antenna should
be half wave.
The formula I've always used is 468/MHzlength in feet. This gives about
.48 wavelength
to compensate for capacitance off the ends. I come up with 44.93 inches for
the entire
length of the antenna. Your description makes it about twice the length it
should be...
-Mac
>A dipole is the easiest of all antennas to make. Just calculate what one
half of the wavelength would be for the middle of the band you want to transmit
in - in this case, >about 125 MHz. Wavelength Speed of light / frequency,
or 300,000,000/125,000,000, so the length needs to be 2.4 meters or 94-1/2".
Make each leg half of that, >solder each to one pole of a coaxial connector
and voila - one halfwave dipole antenna. It is best to tune it to the transmitter
and coax system you are using with an >SWR meter (any ham operator can help
you with this). Just trim the ends of the dipole to get the SWR (Standing
Wave Ratio) as close to 1:1 as possible.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: antenna question
Date: Jun 24, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
You're right Mac - I forgot to take half of that number. Half of
94-1/2" is 47-1/4", which is pretty close to the number you mention.
It's been too long since I covered the wing and covered up that antenna.
I just remember the sucker was long. Works well, though, and doesn't
detract from the appearance, or add unnecessary drag (like that's
important in a Pietenpol).
Jack Phillips
Just a Mechanical Engineer who used to be a Ham operator
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
McCarty
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: antenna question
An 8 ft dipole for 125 MHz just doesn't sound right. The entire antenna
should be half wave.
The formula I've always used is 468/MHzlength in feet. This gives
about .48 wavelength
to compensate for capacitance off the ends. I come up with 44.93 inches
for the entire
length of the antenna. Your description makes it about twice the length
it should be...
-Mac
>A dipole is the easiest of all antennas to make. Just calculate what
one half of the wavelength would be for the middle of the band you want
to transmit in - in this case, >about 125 MHz. Wavelength Speed of
light / frequency, or 300,000,000/125,000,000, so the length needs to be
2.4 meters or 94-1/2". Make each leg half of that, >solder each to one
pole of a coaxial connector and voila - one halfwave dipole antenna. It
is best to tune it to the transmitter and coax system you are using with
an >SWR meter (any ham operator can help you with this). Just trim the
ends of the dipole to get the SWR (Standing Wave Ratio) as close to 1:1
as possible.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: Piet over Kansas
Date: Jun 24, 2005
Terry,
Glad you enjoyed our Piet, even though we have the settings at "easy"! -- we
need a "happy" mix of what kids can do & still be challenged -- sometimes we
just hope their attention span is shorter than what it takes to break
something!! ;-)
Originally, we did have simulators with rudder pedals at EP -- however, the
kids did them in real fast (they weren't built for a 200# load on each pedal
!) -- we're looking to make a set of rudder bars out of 1" gas pipe to see
what happens! As for the "control yoke", remember that some of the Curtiss
Jennys were set-up that way!
If you make it back this way again, have the front desk call me in the Tech
Services shop.
Mike C. (a museum exhibit tech. by day!)
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: barnstmr(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 8:55 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet over Kansas
Hey Gang,
I was briefly in Wichita KS with my boss on business trip this week. We
had a couple of hours to kill so we went over to the "Exploration Place"
museum. Chuck, sorry I didn't look you up this time. We were only there
briefly and our 2-hour down time was unexpected. The museum is mostly for
kids with hands-on science exhibits... very nice and with a lot of
interesting aviation exhibits donated by Boeing, Cessna, and others.
While strolling thru, I noticed a computer screen with a flight simulator
with a visible instrument panel appeared to be open cockpit. I walked over
and pushed a button. Low and behold it was a Pietenpol. Now maybe this has
been discussed on here before. And if so, I apologize.
Anyway.... I had a ball and could have stayed there for hours flying that
Piet. It was pretty realistic, although no red-line on airspeed which
enabled me to accelerate to 120 knots and pull the nose up high for a loop.
Also accomplished a very sloppy roll (no rudder available). Instead of a
joystick, there was a control wheel.
Anyway...if you ever are there, its a fun thing to do. Especially for all
of us kids.
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Seminars at Brodhead?
Date: Jun 25, 2005
I've been to some really interesting presentations by Vi Kapler and William Wynne
at Brodhead......those were fun.
So I'm wondering if there be any interest is seeing vacuum bagging, powdercoating,
streamling wood legs or struts with a router, or some such thing at Brodhead?
Maybe someone could setup a metal cutting bandsaw and a grinder and sander and
give some step by step pointers on building the metal parts?
(I personally think some hands on welding help by someone who knew what they were
doing (CERTAINLY not me..) would be really neat.)
Let's get one thing clear though....I'm certainly not pretending to be any kind
of expert on any of this. But I would be glad to maybe point out a few easy
ways to do some stuff (finding easy ways is my specialty) and maybe some mistakes
to avoid (I've made them ALL already...)
Anyway, I wouldn't mind bringing a vacuum bagging setup or my powder coating setup
or whatever, if there would be any interest.
Jim in Plano
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 25, 2005
Subject: Re: A-65 starting snafu
In a message dated 6/23/2005 10:37:40 PM Central Standard Time,
sbobka(at)charter.net writes:
Walt,
Tie it down. Have a good man in the cockpit. Have him open the throttle
fully with the magnetos off. Pull the prop through slowly backwards. This will
inhale air through the exhausts and exhale it out the carb so as to lean out
the mixture. Don't worry about the mags firing as it is impossible for them to
fire if they rotate backwards. After cleaning out the cylinders with 4 to 8
180 degree rotations, go to throttle closed, slowly reposition the balde to
the 10:30 position. Then Mags on, throttle cracked, and it will start on the
next flip. This is the same procedure to use for a flooded engine at any
temperature.
chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
This is the exact method that a guy on the south side of Kansas City showed
me in '03, on my return trip from Brodhead. Worked like a charm. It was hot
that day, and it wouldn't fire at all, untill we used this method.
I don't have a primer...if it ain't there, it can't break. My engine seems
to start better in the warmer weather...most of the time.
Chris,
I've been wondering what 'Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und
Flitzermotoren' means.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 25, 2005
Subject: Re: Piet over Kansas
I hadn't noticed that flight sim when I was there a couple of years ago.
I'll have to go and check it out...hummmmm...aerobatics in a Piet...
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 25, 2005
Subject: Re: Pietenpol List: A-65 starting snafu
In a message dated 6/24/2005 11:16:30 AM Central Standard Time,
elj(at)shreve.net writes:
But the _most_ important thing I found in my engine, was to give a slight
upswing before the downswing for the start. This worked wonders and proved
to be equally effective on Corky's plane. That motion is done rather
quickly, with a slight push up or clockwise (opposite direction from
starting) before the downswing of the prop to start the engine. I found my
engine at times wouldn't start without doing this and it became
instinctive over the years with my engine and any other I hand propped.
I'll have to try that one, too, if the need arises.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 25, 2005
Subject: Re: Brodhead Info Requested
Camping is the best at Brodhead !! That way you won't miss being woke up by
the 'Dawn Patrol'.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 25, 2005
Subject: Re: Seminars at Brodhead?
In a message dated 6/25/2005 8:59:38 AM Central Standard Time,
jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
So I'm wondering if there be any interest is seeing vacuum bagging,
powdercoating, streamling wood legs or struts with a router, or some such thing
at
Brodhead?
Jim,
I am certain, that any seminar that you give would be educational, and Most
Entertaining !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 25, 2005
Subject: Re: overcast over Brodhead
In a message dated 6/23/2005 10:52:21 AM Central Standard Time, steve(at)byu.edu
writes:
Back in 99' I brought 5 gallons of smoke oil and left it there as a
stockpile for future smokers..... I wonder what happened to it.
Stevee
Stevee,
Are you going to make it to Brodhead this year ?
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: A-65 starting snafu
Date: Jun 25, 2005
Chuck,
I can help you with 1/2 your question below-------"Braumeister" mean Master of
the technique of brewing beer. Meister is an official German education certification
by another Brewing Master (one that has been granted a teaching certification
after many long years as a "meister"). The Master teacher certifies that
you have completed a long apprenticeship in the art and craft of brewing beer.
Chris obviously a master beer brewer. No better crafted skill can one possess
in and near Milwaukee.
In regards to Flitzer or Flitzmotoren, don't know these "German" words. Perhaps
they're highly technical terms that has something to do with brewing beer?
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starting snafu
In a message dated 6/23/2005 10:37:40 PM Central Standard Time, sbobka(at)charter.net
writes:
Walt,
Tie it down. Have a good man in the cockpit. Have him open the throttle fully
with the magnetos off. Pull the prop through slowly backwards. This will
inhale air through the exhausts and exhale it out the carb so as to lean out
the mixture. Don't worry about the mags firing as it is impossible for them
to fire if they rotate backwards. After cleaning out the cylinders with 4 to
8 180 degree rotations, go to throttle closed, slowly reposition the balde to
the 10:30 position. Then Mags on, throttle cracked, and it will start on the
next flip. This is the same procedure to use for a flooded engine at any temperature.
chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
This is the exact method that a guy on the south side of Kansas City showed me
in '03, on my return trip from Brodhead. Worked like a charm. It was hot that
day, and it wouldn't fire at all, untill we used this method.
I don't have a primer...if it ain't there, it can't break. My engine seems to
start better in the warmer weather...most of the time.
Chris,
I've been wondering what 'Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren'
means.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 25, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: A-65 starting snafu
<00c001c57997$37df97b0$2b9870d1@defaultcomp>
As per Google Language tools,,,
' brewing masters and supervisor of the Flitzer and Flitzermotoren '
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starting snafu
Chuck,
I can help you with 1/2 your question below-------"Braumeister" mean Master of
the technique of brewing beer. Meister is an official German education certification
by another Brewing Master (one that has been granted a teaching certification
after many long years as a "meister"). The Master teacher certifies
that you have completed a long apprenticeship in the art and craft of brewing
beer. Chris obviously a master beer brewer. No better crafted skill can one
possess in and near Milwaukee.
In regards to Flitzer or Flitzmotoren, don't know these "German" words. Perhaps
they're highly technical terms that has something to do with brewing beer?
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starting snafu
In a message dated 6/23/2005 10:37:40 PM Central Standard Time, sbobka(at)charter.net
writes:
Walt,
Tie it down. Have a good man in the cockpit. Have him open the throttle
fully with the magnetos off. Pull the prop through slowly backwards. This will
inhale air through the exhausts and exhale it out the carb so as to lean out
the mixture. Don't worry about the mags firing as it is impossible for them
to fire if they rotate backwards. After cleaning out the cylinders with 4 to
8 180 degree rotations, go to throttle closed, slowly reposition the balde
to the 10:30 position. Then Mags on, throttle cracked, and it will start on the
next flip. This is the same procedure to use for a flooded engine at any temperature.
chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
This is the exact method that a guy on the south side of Kansas City showed
me in '03, on my return trip from Brodhead. Worked like a charm. It was hot
that day, and it wouldn't fire at all, untill we used this method.
I don't have a primer...if it ain't there, it can't break. My engine seems
to start better in the warmer weather...most of the time.
Chris,
I've been wondering what 'Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren'
means.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: A-65 starting snafu
Date: Jun 25, 2005
Ck'ed with my German relatives in Bavaria. Flitzer is a slang word for mosquito
and/or black fly (fliege). As in: "get away from me you damn flitzer, or someone
go get the Raid and kill these damn flitzers". Meisterflugmotoreninspektor
or Meisterflugmachininbau, Sportiv, maybe?
Brewing Master (a new seminar at Brodhead) and Inspector of Flying Pess (a highly
sought after specialist during a long wet hot summer in WI).
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starting snafu
Brewing master and inspector of the sporty little jobs (airplanes) and sporty
little job (airplane) engines
-----Original Message-----
From: Gordon Bowen
Sent: Jun 25, 2005 10:04 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starting snafu
Chuck,
I can help you with 1/2 your question below-------"Braumeister" mean Master of
the technique of brewing beer. Meister is an official German education certification
by another Brewing Master (one that has been granted a teaching certification
after many long years as a "meister"). The Master teacher certifies
that you have completed a long apprenticeship in the art and craft of brewing
beer. Chris obviously a master beer brewer. No better crafted skill can one
possess in and near Milwaukee.
In regards to Flitzer or Flitzmotoren, don't know these "German" words. Perhaps
they're highly technical terms that has something to do with brewing beer?
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starting snafu
In a message dated 6/23/2005 10:37:40 PM Central Standard Time, sbobka(at)charter.net
writes:
Walt,
Tie it down. Have a good man in the cockpit. Have him open the throttle
fully with the magnetos off. Pull the prop through slowly backwards. This will
inhale air through the exhausts and exhale it out the carb so as to lean out
the mixture. Don't worry about the mags firing as it is impossible for them
to fire if they rotate backwards. After cleaning out the cylinders with 4 to
8 180 degree rotations, go to throttle closed, slowly reposition the balde
to the 10:30 position. Then Mags on, throttle cracked, and it will start on the
next flip. This is the same procedure to use for a flooded engine at any temperature.
chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
This is the exact method that a guy on the south side of Kansas City showed
me in '03, on my return trip from Brodhead. Worked like a charm. It was hot
that day, and it wouldn't fire at all, untill we used this method.
I don't have a primer...if it ain't there, it can't break. My engine seems
to start better in the warmer weather...most of the time.
Chris,
I've been wondering what 'Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren'
means.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
<002401c5799d$2bad4810$2cc5fea9@home>
Subject: Re: A-65 starting snafu
Date: Jun 25, 2005
Upon further research, (had to wait until my Bavarian relatives staggered home
from the biergartens, and sobered up some), Flitzer is actually a german word,
but not high booklearnin' german. These kinfolk of mine live within spitting
distance from the famous hops growing region of the Hallertau Valley north of
Munich. A "flitzer" is a unit of hops designated for the US market, ie. Michelob
(ck out their advs). Apparently, due to national security reasons, the farmers
of the world class Hallertau hops are not allowed to export the better
quality hops outside Germany. Kinda like: For national security reasons, we could
not sell a major US oil/gas manufacturer to the Chinese. Anyway, my kin
tell me the wiley German Hops farmers refer to these crappy grade of hops sold
to Bud, as "flitzers" (assumingly due to the flying pests these hops seem to
attract).
So Flitzer inspector does have something to do with Chris's skill as a Master Brewer.
Hope this clears up Chuck's questions and sorry for the previous mis-interpretation
message about "Inspector of Flying Pest Eradication Motors", (my
Bavarian dielect is kinda rusty, like my flying skills). Back to the shop, gotta
finish paint the wings of Osprey.
Gordon B.
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starting snafu
As per Google Language tools,,,
' brewing masters and supervisor of the Flitzer and Flitzermotoren '
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starting snafu
Chuck,
I can help you with 1/2 your question below-------"Braumeister" mean Master
of the technique of brewing beer. Meister is an official German education certification
by another Brewing Master (one that has been granted a teaching certification
after many long years as a "meister"). The Master teacher certifies
that you have completed a long apprenticeship in the art and craft of brewing
beer. Chris obviously a master beer brewer. No better crafted skill can one
possess in and near Milwaukee.
In regards to Flitzer or Flitzmotoren, don't know these "German" words. Perhaps
they're highly technical terms that has something to do with brewing beer?
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starting snafu
In a message dated 6/23/2005 10:37:40 PM Central Standard Time, sbobka(at)charter.net
writes:
Walt,
Tie it down. Have a good man in the cockpit. Have him open the throttle
fully with the magnetos off. Pull the prop through slowly backwards. This
will inhale air through the exhausts and exhale it out the carb so as to lean
out the mixture. Don't worry about the mags firing as it is impossible for them
to fire if they rotate backwards. After cleaning out the cylinders with 4
to 8 180 degree rotations, go to throttle closed, slowly reposition the balde
to the 10:30 position. Then Mags on, throttle cracked, and it will start on
the next flip. This is the same procedure to use for a flooded engine at any
temperature.
chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
This is the exact method that a guy on the south side of Kansas City showed
me in '03, on my return trip from Brodhead. Worked like a charm. It was hot
that day, and it wouldn't fire at all, untill we used this method.
I don't have a primer...if it ain't there, it can't break. My engine seems
to start better in the warmer weather...most of the time.
Chris,
I've been wondering what 'Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren'
means.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
<002401c5799d$2bad4810$2cc5fea9@home> <010701c579b0$1554c850$2b9870d1@defaultcomp>
Subject: Re: A-65 starting snafu
Date: Jun 25, 2005
Actually, the "Flitzer" Chris refers to is the Flitzer line of aircraft.
Check out:
www.flitzer-aero.com
Cute little biplanes that are rapidly developing an enthusiastic
following.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starting snafu
Upon further research, (had to wait until my Bavarian relatives staggered home
from the biergartens, and sobered up some), Flitzer is actually a german word,
but not high booklearnin' german. These kinfolk of mine live within spitting
distance from the famous hops growing region of the Hallertau Valley north
of Munich. A "flitzer" is a unit of hops designated for the US market, ie. Michelob
(ck out their advs). Apparently, due to national security reasons, the
farmers of the world class Hallertau hops are not allowed to export the better
quality hops outside Germany. Kinda like: For national security reasons, we
could not sell a major US oil/gas manufacturer to the Chinese. Anyway, my kin
tell me the wiley German Hops farmers refer to these crappy grade of hops sold
to Bud, as "flitzers" (assumingly due to the flying pests these hops seem to
attract).
So Flitzer inspector does have something to do with Chris's skill as a Master
Brewer. Hope this clears up Chuck's questions and sorry for the previous mis-interpretation
message about "Inspector of Flying Pest Eradication Motors", (my
Bavarian dielect is kinda rusty, like my flying skills). Back to the shop,
gotta finish paint the wings of Osprey.
Gordon B.
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starting snafu
As per Google Language tools,,,
' brewing masters and supervisor of the Flitzer and Flitzermotoren '
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starting snafu
Chuck,
I can help you with 1/2 your question below-------"Braumeister" mean Master
of the technique of brewing beer. Meister is an official German education
certification by another Brewing Master (one that has been granted a teaching
certification after many long years as a "meister"). The Master teacher certifies
that you have completed a long apprenticeship in the art and craft of brewing
beer. Chris obviously a master beer brewer. No better crafted skill can
one possess in and near Milwaukee.
In regards to Flitzer or Flitzmotoren, don't know these "German" words.
Perhaps they're highly technical terms that has something to do with brewing beer?
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starting snafu
In a message dated 6/23/2005 10:37:40 PM Central Standard Time, sbobka(at)charter.net
writes:
Walt,
Tie it down. Have a good man in the cockpit. Have him open the throttle
fully with the magnetos off. Pull the prop through slowly backwards. This
will inhale air through the exhausts and exhale it out the carb so as to lean
out the mixture. Don't worry about the mags firing as it is impossible for
them to fire if they rotate backwards. After cleaning out the cylinders with
4 to 8 180 degree rotations, go to throttle closed, slowly reposition the balde
to the 10:30 position. Then Mags on, throttle cracked, and it will start
on the next flip. This is the same procedure to use for a flooded engine at any
temperature.
chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
This is the exact method that a guy on the south side of Kansas City showed
me in '03, on my return trip from Brodhead. Worked like a charm. It was
hot that day, and it wouldn't fire at all, untill we used this method.
I don't have a primer...if it ain't there, it can't break. My engine seems
to start better in the warmer weather...most of the time.
Chris,
I've been wondering what 'Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren'
means.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 25, 2005
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:Mould
hey what happened to cpcworld.com i need to go to peters web site tom
________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 25, 2005
Subject: Re: A-65 starting snafu
i have one of those cute little bipes its a mong sport its awsome
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: overcast over Brodhead
Date: Jun 25, 2005
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Thanks for asking.... Every year I think I can get away. Last year I
even had 100 hats made to provide gas money. (Still have most of them)
This year I'm so close to finishing my Stinson I can taste it.
Unfortunatly I'm likely to stay home again, though your trip log made me
want to do it all over again. I flew out in '99 and loved it. 43 hours
in the air in 10 days. I've got a commitment a day or so before the
Brodhead weekend that I can't avoid. Maybe next year.
Steve Eldredge
PS if any of you want a piet hat let me know! $20 shipped
steve(at)byu.edu
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: overcast over Brodhead
In a message dated 6/23/2005 10:52:21 AM Central Standard Time,
steve(at)byu.edu writes:
Back in 99' I brought 5 gallons of smoke oil and left it there
as a
stockpile for future smokers..... I wonder what happened to it.
=09
Stevee
Stevee,
Are you going to make it to Brodhead this year ?
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Seminars at Brodhead?
Date: Jun 25, 2005
Jim
We already did a powder coating demo at Brodhead. It was well received. Had a lot
of Questions durning and after the
demo.
Dale in Mpls
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seminars at Brodhead?
I've been to some really interesting presentations by Vi Kapler and William Wynne
at Brodhead......those were fun.
So I'm wondering if there be any interest is seeing vacuum bagging, powdercoating,
streamling wood legs or struts with a router, or some such thing at Brodhead?
Maybe someone could setup a metal cutting bandsaw and a grinder and sander and
give some step by step pointers on building the metal parts?
(I personally think some hands on welding help by someone who knew what they were
doing (CERTAINLY not me..) would be really neat.)
Let's get one thing clear though....I'm certainly not pretending to be any kind
of expert on any of this. But I would be glad to maybe point out a few easy
ways to do some stuff (finding easy ways is my specialty) and maybe some mistakes
to avoid (I've made them ALL already...)
Anyway, I wouldn't mind bringing a vacuum bagging setup or my powder coating setup
or whatever, if there would be any interest.
Jim in Plano
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Green" <mmml(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:Mould
Date: Jun 26, 2005
Tom,
It's still there. Try www.cpc-world.com I paid Peter a visit about a month
ago and he's done a great job. I wanted to get a few photo's and ideas
before he covered it.( which won't be far off.)
Regards,
Mike Green
Romsey
Victoria
AUSTRALIA
----- Original Message -----
From: <TRichmo9(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Mould
>
> hey what happened to cpcworld.com i need to go to peters web site
> tom
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: tenpol-List:Mould
Date: Jun 26, 2005
Ted,
It's http://www.cpc-world.com.
Cheers
Peter.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Mould
hey what happened to cpcworld.com i need to go to peters web site
tom
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: Piet over Kansas
Date: Jun 25, 2005
We did a rework of the gallery about 1 1/2 years ago -- we've been running
Microsoft FS2004 since then with the Piet on one sim. station & a Lear 45 on
the other station in that exhibit. You can download the Piet at
http://www.theoldhangar.com/ -- look for the "Grand Opening Special" --
I'll have to adjust the settings and get the rudder bar ready for a future
visit!! (the control yoke will probably stay -- it's survived 4 years of
use!! ;-)
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet over Kansas
I hadn't noticed that flight sim when I was there a couple of years ago.
I'll have to go and check it out...hummmmm...aerobatics in a Piet...
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Wing Construction
Date: Jun 25, 2005
What kind of fixture is most often used to build the wings on. Do I need a solid
table or would a couple of good saw horses supporting the spars work (One on
each end and one or two in the middle)
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "M&M Stanley" <tomiya(at)di.mbn.or.jp>
Subject: Japanese Piet's in progress
Date: Jun 26, 2005
Hi Pieters,
Attached is a shot taken of Piet # 1 in Japan. The owner/builder (T.Mita)
is in the front seat and I am in the rear.
We were just having a session of making airplane noises so I thought I would
send the group a shot.
It is powered by an A-65, and is the short fuz version.
My Piet (#2) is still coming along although progress is slow. I have
completed 30 full ribs and only need the 2 rear rib sections and the single
forward rib for the center section.
The ribs on the cabane struts in the photo of Piet #1, are from my
collection.
I plan to look around for some timber for the spars, if I can't find that,
then I will start on the fin/rudder etc.
Mark Stanley
in hot'n'humid Japan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:Wanted to buy Piet or Grega
Date: Jun 26, 2005
Jeff,
I believe Bob Barrows, the designer of the Bearhawk, still has his A model Piet
for sale.
Short fuselage, red and silver, no brakes, tail skid, wire wheels with straight
axle, empty weight 630. The A has pressure lube and aluminum head. The aircraft
had 80 hours(as of the last time I talked to him, at Sun n Fun).
He is asking 12K, and is located at Fincastle VA.
Call Bob with questions, 540 473-3661.
Larry Williams had his VERY nice A model Piet in Trade-a-Plane a few months ago.
Skip ... still watching my Piet fuselage fly, 5 feet below the hangar ceiling.
I'm still looking for a
completed Pietenpol to fly while I'm building my Davis. Does anyone
know of good examples for sale other than at Trade-a-Plane, ebay, or
Barnstormers? (I have those covered). I'm in Atlanta, but might go
far afield for the right one.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Seminars at Brodhead?
Date: Jun 26, 2005
I already did a powdercoating presentation at Brodhead. Does anybody remember?
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 9:05 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seminars at Brodhead?
I've been to some really interesting presentations by Vi Kapler and William Wynne
at Brodhead......those were fun.
So I'm wondering if there be any interest is seeing vacuum bagging, powdercoating,
streamling wood legs or struts with a router, or some such thing at Brodhead?
Maybe someone could setup a metal cutting bandsaw and a grinder and sander and
give some step by step pointers on building the metal parts?
(I personally think some hands on welding help by someone who knew what they
were doing (CERTAINLY not me..) would be really neat.)
Let's get one thing clear though....I'm certainly not pretending to be any kind
of expert on any of this. But I would be glad to maybe point out a few easy
ways to do some stuff (finding easy ways is my specialty) and maybe some mistakes
to avoid (I've made them ALL already...)
Anyway, I wouldn't mind bringing a vacuum bagging setup or my powder coating
setup or whatever, if there would be any interest.
Jim in Plano
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Seminars at Brodhead?
Date: Jun 26, 2005
Gar Williams provided the air compressor. I will find his email address and forward
to you.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seminars at Brodhead?
I'm betting all who were in attendance (wish I was there!) will remember your
presentation, Chris!
There has been a lot of interest offline and online so I'm planning on seeing
if I can come up with something.
So someone out there needs to clean up some metal parts so I'll have something
to powder coat or get some wood together so I'll have something to laminate
(vacuum bag). Maybe a wing tip bow made up of laminated 1/4" pieces or whatever.....
Let me know....
Jim in Plano
-----Original Message-----
From: Christian Bobka
Sent: Jun 26, 2005 1:38 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seminars at Brodhead?
I already did a powdercoating presentation at Brodhead. Does anybody remember?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: A-65 starting snafu
Date: Jun 26, 2005
Yep, it also means Speedster, as in Flivver (like a Jeep or a fast, stripped-down
or 'homebuilt car') and was also applied semi-officially to the BMW Dixie,
which was a sport version of the Austin Seven open sport model, licence-built
in Germany in the late 1920s. It came to mean 'Streaker' too when that 'sport'
became popular from the 1960s, so the Stummelflitzer, (Clipped Flitzer) can mean
'Stumpy Streaker' which got some rib-aching laughter response from two of
Gerard's client's a while back, when he told them what he was building: an old
fashioned airplane called a 'Fat Streaker' !
It was also applied to fast motorcycles, or quick courier services.
It also means Madcap, or something frenetic. The Focke-Wulf Flitzer twin boom jet
fighter was so-named. Thies translates it as 'Speedster', but a biting fly
or mosquito is appropriate if there's one on the tail of your Minimax and it won't
let go!
Cheers,
Lynn
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: A-65 starting snafu
I flew last evening in perfect weather.
nicht ist das Leben gro=DFartig?
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: Pietenpol
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 4:01 PM
Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starting snafu
Yep, it also means Speedster, as in Flivver (like a Jeep or a fast, stripped-down
or 'homebuilt car') and was also applied semi-officially to the BMW Dixie,
which was a sport version of the Austin Seven open sport model, licence-built
in Germany in the late 1920s. It came to mean 'Streaker' too when that 'sport'
became popular from the 1960s, so the Stummelflitzer, (Clipped Flitzer) can
mean 'Stumpy Streaker' which got some rib-aching laughter response from two of
Gerard's client's a while back, when he told them what he was building: an old
fashioned airplane called a 'Fat Streaker' !
It was also applied to fast motorcycles, or quick courier services.
It also means Madcap, or something frenetic. The Focke-Wulf Flitzer twin boom
jet fighter was so-named. Thies translates it as 'Speedster', but a biting fly
or mosquito is appropriate if there's one on the tail of your Minimax and it
won't let go!
Cheers,
Lynn
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Bavarians are out to lunch
Date: Jun 26, 2005
From: Thies Eisele
Subject: Re: Even funnier.....
A Mong Sport, interesting...
all that Bavarian translation stuff was very funny. Basic problem is (and was later
hinted at) it's Bavarian, not German. Under the false assumption that Bavarian
is a mere dialect (in fact some of us consider it a serious illness) of
German, they just had to get it wrong...
VBW, Thies
Christian Bobka schrieb:
Here he thinks it is a Mong Sport!
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: <TRichmo9(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starting snafu
i have one of those cute little bipes its a mong sport its awsome
--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Flitzed!
Date: Jun 26, 2005
OK Chris, I give up. Flitzer means something more meaningful than a bad batch
of Bavarian Hops destined to make bad batches of Bud Beer. Although the Flying
Flitzer shown in at the website, looks a heck of a lot like the Flying Hops
Bollweevel, believed to cause much damage to good Hallertau hops.
Austrialia's Foster's taking over Miller Brewing maybe we'll not be importing flizers
(sml f) of bad hops.
But--------- Ain't no "R" in Baumeister or building master. Drank enough Lowenbrau
and Spatenbrau to believe "brau" is brew, egro brewingmaster- Braumeister.
So perhaps you're better described as:
"DerFliegeneFlitzerFlugzeugBauMeisterUndInspectorDerFliegeneFlitzerFlugzeugMotoren",
Esq.
Where's our spelling and grammar inspectors when we need them.
Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
Cozy IV N64CY
Osprey II N64SY
Pietenpol N-1033B
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: Pietenpol
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 12:01 PM
Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starting snafu
Yep, it also means Speedster, as in Flivver (like a Jeep or a fast, stripped-down
or 'homebuilt car') and was also applied semi-officially to the BMW Dixie,
which was a sport version of the Austin Seven open sport model, licence-built
in Germany in the late 1920s. It came to mean 'Streaker' too when that 'sport'
became popular from the 1960s, so the Stummelflitzer, (Clipped Flitzer) can
mean 'Stumpy Streaker' which got some rib-aching laughter response from two of
Gerard's client's a while back, when he told them what he was building: an old
fashioned airplane called a 'Fat Streaker' !
It was also applied to fast motorcycles, or quick courier services.
It also means Madcap, or something frenetic. The Focke-Wulf Flitzer twin boom
jet fighter was so-named. Thies translates it as 'Speedster', but a biting fly
or mosquito is appropriate if there's one on the tail of your Minimax and it
won't let go!
Cheers,
Lynn
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: What a great weekend
This weekend,,,yesterday in the AM flew over a friend at work's house, and he got
some shots from the ground.
Then this evening, took two different people for rides around the area. Over the
abandoned limestone quarry, over the minor league stadium to see a hit and
him running to first, then over Paulinskill lake. and on to a flyby of Trinca
airport.
Two rides 1 1/4 hour.
Great evening priceless
Ain't Life Grand!
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2005
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Pietenpol for MS Flight simulator 2004
Hi all,
I found this link to the Pietenpol for FS2004 and thought it should be
archived under a title that would be searchable. I've downloaded it and
played with it a little. I'd be interested to know if any of you with a
finished and flying Pietenpol could comment on how realistic it is. The
sim version really leaps off the ground and I wasn't expecting that type
of performance.
Ben
ribs and most of fuselage carpentry complete
Michael Conkling wrote:
> We did a rework of the gallery about 1 1/2 years ago -- we've been
> running Microsoft FS2004 since then with the Piet on one sim.
> station & a Lear 45 on the other station in that exhibit. You can
> download the Piet at http://www.theoldhangar.com/ -- look for the
> "Grand Opening Special" -- I'll have to adjust the settings and get
> the rudder bar ready for a future visit!! (the control yoke
> will probably stay -- it's survived 4 years of use!! ;-)
>
> Mike C.
> Pretty Prairie, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Japanese Piet's in progress
Date: Jun 26, 2005
Thats a mighty fine looking project youve got there. It should make for an interesting
story on your flight to Broadhead (just kidding).
Keep building and welcome to the group.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: M&M Stanley
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 9:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Japanese Piet's in progress
Hi Pieters,
Attached is a shot taken of Piet # 1 in Japan. The owner/builder (T.Mita) is
in the front seat and I am in the rear.
We were just having a session of making airplane noises so I thought I would
send the group a shot.
It is powered by an A-65, and is the short fuz version.
My Piet (#2) is still coming along although progress is slow. I have completed
30 full ribs and only need the 2 rear rib sections and the single forward rib
for the center section.
The ribs on the cabane struts in the photo of Piet #1, are from my collection.
I plan to look around for some timber for the spars, if I can't find that, then
I will start on the fin/rudder etc.
Mark Stanley
in hot'n'humid Japan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
<00b001c57a0e$3e34ddb0$f72f5142@Spot>
Subject: Re: Wing Construction
Date: Jun 26, 2005
Chris
If you are building a 3 piece wing, a couple of saw horses is just fine. However,
for a 1 piece wing you may want something more stable. I built a rotating
table that would carry the entire wing and I could flip it to work on the top
or bottom.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Catdesign
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 12:16 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Construction
What kind of fixture is most often used to build the wings on. Do I need a solid
table or would a couple of good saw horses supporting the spars work (One
on each end and one or two in the middle)
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 26, 2005
Subject: Metal parts
Don't know if this has been covered in the archives -- probably has, but...do
folks still build metal parts per the plans, i.e. 16 gauge mild steel, or 12
gauge mild steel, for example? Or, does everyone substitue 4130 nowadays, and
if so, what gauge of 4130? Has anyone compiled a list that could be posted
giving thickness of 4130 for various parts including for the control sticks and
torque tube?
Only a month to Brodhead!
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "M&M Stanley" <tomiya(at)di.mbn.or.jp>
Subject: Re; Japanese Piets in progress
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Hi Dick,
> 'Thats a mighty fine looking project youve got there.'
Thanks for the good comments, I will pass them along to the owner/builder,
(T.Mita), he will be happy.
Hmmm.......perhaps if we put my wing on his fuselage, we could go "cross
COUNTRY" a bit sooner !!
Thanks & safe flying !
Mark Stanley
still in hot'n'humid Japan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Subject: Re: Wing Construction
In a message dated 6/26/2005 12:18:13 AM Central Standard Time,
catdesign(at)intergate.com writes:
What kind of fixture is most often used to build the wings on. Do I need a
solid table or would a couple of good saw horses supporting the spars work (One
on each end and one or two in the middle)
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Chris,
I built my one piece wing in my house. Made for quite a conversation piece
!! It went down through the living room, dining room, and out the back door
into the enclosed in back porch. I made a jig to support the wing in a vertical
attitude, leading edge down, to about 6" off the floor. Initially, the 4
jigs (made from 1 X 4's) supported the wing by the spars, with two vertical
pieces and two cross pieces that the spars rested on, while I slid the ribs on.
Squared & straightened everything up, and glued the ribs on, finished the
ailerons, hardware, and rigging. Then I made 4 other jigs to support the wing
by
the hard points at the cabane struts and lift struts. This allowed me to do all
the fabric and paint work. It worked out very well because I had access to
the top and bottom of the wing, working in a climate controlled
environment...air-condition in the summer and heat in the winter. It took me a
year to build
and complete it, working on it as much as I could, every single day. The
wing was 100 % complete, when we carried it out the front door, and built a jig
on the trailer to haul it to the airport. That day was one of those milestones
!!
Chuck G.
Flew for an hour this evening in gusty wind, but down the runway.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Metal parts
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Fred.
Check out http://www.cpc-world.com From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Subject: Re: Wing Construction
I am building a 3 piece wing and a couple of saw horses worked fine. A
3rd. saw horse was used to support the center section. I built my wing
off of the center section so that I would know that it was going to bolt
up . Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Japanese Piet's in progress
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Dick,
Don;t kid around. Those Japanese aircraft during the big one had good range.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Japanese Piet's in progress
Thats a mighty fine looking project youve got there. It should make for an interesting
story on your flight to Broadhead (just kidding).
Keep building and welcome to the group.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: M&M Stanley
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 9:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Japanese Piet's in progress
Hi Pieters,
Attached is a shot taken of Piet # 1 in Japan. The owner/builder (T.Mita)
is in the front seat and I am in the rear.
We were just having a session of making airplane noises so I thought I would
send the group a shot.
It is powered by an A-65, and is the short fuz version.
My Piet (#2) is still coming along although progress is slow. I have completed
30 full ribs and only need the 2 rear rib sections and the single forward
rib for the center section.
The ribs on the cabane struts in the photo of Piet #1, are from my collection.
I plan to look around for some timber for the spars, if I can't find that,
then I will start on the fin/rudder etc.
Mark Stanley
in hot'n'humid Japan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: A-65 starting snafu
Date: Jun 27, 2005
>From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starting snafu
>Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:32:44 EDT
>
>In a message dated 6/23/2005 10:37:40 PM Central Standard Time,
>sbobka(at)charter.net writes:
>Walt,
>
>Tie it down. Have a good man in the cockpit. Have him open the throttle
>fully with the magnetos off. Pull the prop through slowly backwards. This
>will
>inhale air through the exhausts and exhale it out the carb so as to lean
>out
>the mixture. Don't worry about the mags firing as it is impossible for
>them to
>fire if they rotate backwards. After cleaning out the cylinders with 4 to
>8
>180 degree rotations, go to throttle closed, slowly reposition the balde to
>the 10:30 position. Then Mags on, throttle cracked, and it will start on
>the
>next flip. This is the same procedure to use for a flooded engine at any
>temperature.
>
>chris
>Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
>This is the exact method that a guy on the south side of Kansas City showed
>me in '03, on my return trip from Brodhead. Worked like a charm. It was
>hot
>that day, and it wouldn't fire at all, untill we used this method.
>I don't have a primer...if it ain't there, it can't break. My engine seems
>to start better in the warmer weather...most of the time.
>
>Chris,
>I've been wondering what 'Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und
>Flitzermotoren' means.
>
>Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "M&M Stanley" <tomiya(at)di.mbn.or.jp>
Subject: Re: Japanese Piets
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Hi Chris,
Yep, the report go's, ............... "Unidentified square wing tipped
aircraft with red circles under the wings spotted at 45,000 ft over Brodhead
"..............
Thanks for the comments!
Mark Stanley
Japan
Dick,
Don;t kid around. Those Japanese aircraft during the big one had good
range.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Turrell" <emtyit(at)3web.net>
Subject: Plans available at Oshkosh?
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Hello everyone,wonderful site you all have here.Can anyone tell me if plans for
the Piet are available at Oshkosh as it would save me a few Canadian dollars.Thanks.
Windsor Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Plans available at Oshkosh?
Date: Jun 27, 2005
I am not aware of anyone selling plans at OSH. The best source is from Donald
Pietenpol directly, by mail. Last year at OSH they were working on a set of wings
for a Piet in the wood tent. They may still be this year also.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Turrell
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 9:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plans available at Oshkosh?
Hello everyone,wonderful site you all have here.Can anyone tell me if plans for
the Piet are available at Oshkosh as it would save me a few Canadian dollars.Thanks.
Windsor Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: seminar on rigging
om><009201c579f5$3fbfa5c0$57c5fea9@ mke>
It would be nice to have someone present the proper rigging procedures for
Pietenpols for guys who might
be EAA Technical Counselors tutoring builders in their area. (or for
builders directly. Jack Phillips comes to
mind, but he'll be quite busy answering questions about his beautiful new
airplane.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 75 Anniversary Hats
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Here is the info on the hats, sorry to many of you who this will be a
repeat from last year. If the images don't make it, They will be on the
photoshare soon. Or email me off line and I'll send them to you.
Steve E.
On the back and Low and Slow on the front. This edition will be done
in Gold thread. I've got the same hat shells as last time, but with
some added colors. Black seemed to be the most popular front bill size
and so I ordered most in black. I do have a dozen each of the Green,
Red, and Yellow Gold however
Here is the specs and pricing:
The Hat:
Heavy Stone Washed Denim low crown unconstructed buckle back adjustment.
Color is khaki with a green, red, black or gold bill. (sorry no blue
this time....)
One size fits all. Basically I got my favorite hat and called the
manufacture and spec'd it from it. You will love it. It is crushable
and comfortable.
The Image:
The 75 year anniversary image will be similar to the one on previous
years hats, but this one has a Gold "75 YRS" on the front. I think it
is really cool. Check the web site if you want to see the revised
image. http://aircamper.byu.edu
The embroidery:
13000 stitches of the finest thread. 75 Years in Gold thread
The price
$20 with standard message on the back "Cherry Grove -75- Brodhead"
Free Shipping!!!
Send me an email including details and your Phone # to:
steve(at)byu.edu
Check or paypal OK.
Paypal address is wifeopilot(at)sfcn.org
Checks go to:
Steve Eldredge
2810 E Canyon Rd
Spanish Fork UT 84660
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Japanese Piet's in progress
Date: Jun 27, 2005
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Kirei na Pietenpol. Mita-san Gokurosama desu! Mo sugu tobu to omoimas!
Steve E
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of M&M
Stanley
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Japanese Piet's in progress
Hi Pieters,
Attached is a shot taken of Piet # 1 in Japan. The owner/builder
(T.Mita) is in the front seat and I am in the rear.
We were just having a session of making airplane noises so I thought I
would send the group a shot.
It is powered by an A-65, and is the short fuz version.
My Piet (#2) is still coming along although progress is slow. I have
completed 30 full ribs and only need the 2 rear rib sections and the
single forward rib for the center section.
The ribs on the cabane struts in the photo of Piet #1, are from my
collection.
I plan to look around for some timber for the spars, if I can't find
that, then I will start on the fin/rudder etc.
Mark Stanley
in hot'n'humid Japan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Fw: Piet Wheels/brakes
Date: Jun 27, 2005
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
Subject: Fw: Piet Wheels/brakes
Group
I need new brake linings on these wheels ca. 1941 detailed below. Does anybody
know for a source for replacement linings that one can rivet in? They're about
1 1/2" wide and encircle the inside of these wheel/brake drum combos, brass
riveted in place. The actual "shoes" are steel and expand outward using pull
cables to make contact with the pads. I suspect this was a WWII setup whereby
the rubber and brake pads could be quickly changed, by simply taking off the
axle nut, removing complete assembly sans metal brake shoes that are bolted on
the axles internal flange. Gotta think other ole timers like the Piet used
this type of mechanical brake system, buy don't know what type of aircraft they
originally came from. Any help would be appreciated.
Gordon Bowen
----- Original Message -----
From: Floyd Jackson
Subject: Piet Wheels
Shinn Device Co.
Butler PA.
Model, # 6C 5HB
ATC 63
MAX WT. 900 lb
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: A-65 starter
Has anyone heard of or seen anyone retrofitting an A-65 with an electric starter?
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2005
From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Piet Wheels/brakes
From the Taylorcraft club page:
Shinn Wheel & Brake parts
SkyBound, Atlanta Georgia
Shinn Wheels, brakes, cables, backing plates.
Jim Greene (owner) 770-446-6797
Shinn brakes were used on Taylorcrafts and Luscombes. About the only
special tool that you will need is a rivet countersink. Last set of shoes
that I bought was about $30 I think.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
At 03:39 PM 6/27/2005, Gordon Bowen wrote:
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>Gordon Bowen
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 11:35 AM
>Subject: Fw: Piet Wheels/brakes
>
>Group
>I need new brake linings on these wheels ca. 1941 detailed below. Does
>anybody know for a source for replacement linings that one can rivet
>in? They're about 1 1/2" wide and encircle the inside of these
>wheel/brake drum combos, brass riveted in place. The actual "shoes" are
>steel and expand outward using pull cables to make contact with the
>pads. I suspect this was a WWII setup whereby the rubber and brake pads
>could be quickly changed, by simply taking off the axle nut, removing
>complete assembly sans metal brake shoes that are bolted on the axles
>internal flange. Gotta think other ole timers like the Piet used this
>type of mechanical brake system, buy don't know what type of aircraft they
>originally came from. Any help would be appreciated.
>Gordon Bowen
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:fjackson(at)se.rr.com>Floyd Jackson
>To: Gordon Bowen
>Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 7:52 AM
>Subject: Piet Wheels
>
>Shinn Device Co.
>Butler PA.
>Model, # 6C 5HB
>ATC 63
>MAX WT. 900 lb
>
>
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Subject: Re: Fw: Piet Wheels/brakes
________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Subject: Re: Fw: Piet Wheels/brakes
________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Subject: broadhead
hey hey im going ill get to meet all you sky bandits that will be there im
fly up to madison and jim markle is picking me up at the airport, i can hardly
wait and im going to try bumming a ride in a piet tom
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: A-65 starter
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Walt,
A65-9
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 2:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starter
Has anyone heard of or seen anyone retrofitting an A-65 with an electric starter?
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Piet Wheels/brakes
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Gordon,
It is a tough job to do the linings correctly. I would consider sending the inner
wheel halves to Skybound and have them do the relining.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave and Connie
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ; pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Piet Wheels/brakes
From the Taylorcraft club page:
Shinn Wheel & Brake parts
SkyBound, Atlanta Georgia
Shinn Wheels, brakes, cables, backing plates.
Jim Greene (owner) 770-446-6797
Shinn brakes were used on Taylorcrafts and Luscombes. About the only special
tool that you will need is a rivet countersink. Last set of shoes that I bought
was about $30 I think.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
At 03:39 PM 6/27/2005, Gordon Bowen wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 11:35 AM
Subject: Fw: Piet Wheels/brakes
Group
I need new brake linings on these wheels ca. 1941 detailed below. Does anybody
know for a source for replacement linings that one can rivet in? They're
about 1 1/2" wide and encircle the inside of these wheel/brake drum combos, brass
riveted in place. The actual "shoes" are steel and expand outward using
pull cables to make contact with the pads. I suspect this was a WWII setup whereby
the rubber and brake pads could be quickly changed, by simply taking off
the axle nut, removing complete assembly sans metal brake shoes that are bolted
on the axles internal flange. Gotta think other ole timers like the Piet used
this type of mechanical brake system, buy don't know what type of aircraft
they originally came from. Any help would be appreciated.
Gordon Bowen
----- Original Message -----
From: Floyd Jackson
To: Gordon Bowen
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 7:52 AM
Subject: Piet Wheels
Shinn Device Co.
Butler PA.
Model, # 6C 5HB
ATC 63
MAX WT. 900 lb
-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
mke> <5.1.1.5.2.20050627113944.014b1c50(at)popserve.grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: seminar on rigging
Date: Jun 27, 2005
How about someone doing a seminar or jigging up a landing gear. The steel
split gear preferably?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: seminar on rigging
>
> It would be nice to have someone present the proper rigging procedures for
> Pietenpols for guys who might
> be EAA Technical Counselors tutoring builders in their area. (or for
> builders directly. Jack Phillips comes to
> mind, but he'll be quite busy answering questions about his beautiful new
> airplane.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
<006401c57b6c$819558a0$0301a8c0@north>
Subject: Re: Fw: Piet Wheels/brakes
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Thanks for help and quick response, great group with a wealth of experience/information.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Piet Wheels/brakes
Gordon,
It is a tough job to do the linings correctly. I would consider sending the
inner wheel halves to Skybound and have them do the relining.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave and Connie
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ; pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Piet Wheels/brakes
From the Taylorcraft club page:
Shinn Wheel & Brake parts
SkyBound, Atlanta Georgia
Shinn Wheels, brakes, cables, backing plates.
Jim Greene (owner) 770-446-6797
Shinn brakes were used on Taylorcrafts and Luscombes. About the only special
tool that you will need is a rivet countersink. Last set of shoes that I bought
was about $30 I think.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
At 03:39 PM 6/27/2005, Gordon Bowen wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 11:35 AM
Subject: Fw: Piet Wheels/brakes
Group
I need new brake linings on these wheels ca. 1941 detailed below. Does anybody
know for a source for replacement linings that one can rivet in? They're
about 1 1/2" wide and encircle the inside of these wheel/brake drum combos,
brass riveted in place. The actual "shoes" are steel and expand outward using
pull cables to make contact with the pads. I suspect this was a WWII setup
whereby the rubber and brake pads could be quickly changed, by simply taking off
the axle nut, removing complete assembly sans metal brake shoes that are bolted
on the axles internal flange. Gotta think other ole timers like the Piet
used this type of mechanical brake system, buy don't know what type of aircraft
they originally came from. Any help would be appreciated.
Gordon Bowen
----- Original Message -----
From: Floyd Jackson
To: Gordon Bowen
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 7:52 AM
Subject: Piet Wheels
Shinn Device Co.
Butler PA.
Model, # 6C 5HB
ATC 63
MAX WT. 900 lb
-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Subject: Re: Seminars at Brodhead?
From: john e fay <jefay(at)juno.com>
The seminar I would love to see at Brodhead would be someone showing how
to make some of the metal parts, and giving appropriate tips and
warnings.
John Fay
in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Wing question
Date: Jun 27, 2005
I need to decide if I can build the one piece wing. Here is the situation,
it looks like I will be building my wing about 60 miles from my house(in my
parents garage) I might be able to build the one piece wing there. After I
build it, it will not fit in my garage and storing it in the house is not an
option. I will not have a hanger for any foreseeable future so that's out
too. Is it really feasible to build the one piece wing? Will I run into
problems if I build the wing and fuselage without fitting them together?
Should I just build the 3 piece wing so my life is easier? Come on let me
know what you think, everyone has an opinion.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing question
Date: Jun 28, 2005
From: harvey.rule(at)bell.ca
FILETIME=[D518F0D0:01C57BD1]
Build the three piece and then you also have the option of installing a
second gas tank in the middle section or using it for storage like some
people do.You also won't need so much space,easier to store.I would also
think that the table you build it on won't have to be so long so less
chance of getting warps etc.I have a three piece with a gas tank in the
middle.I didn't build my aircraft but I am finishing it off.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Catdesign
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing question
I need to decide if I can build the one piece wing. Here is the
situation,
it looks like I will be building my wing about 60 miles from my house(in
my
parents garage) I might be able to build the one piece wing there.
After I
build it, it will not fit in my garage and storing it in the house is
not an
option. I will not have a hanger for any foreseeable future so that's
out
too. Is it really feasible to build the one piece wing? Will I run into
problems if I build the wing and fuselage without fitting them together?
Should I just build the 3 piece wing so my life is easier? Come on let
me
know what you think, everyone has an opinion.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Wing question
Date: Jun 28, 2005
Sounds like you NEED to build a three piece wing...You could probably build
the panels at home rather than drive 60 miles each way just to work on
it...If I had to drive that far to work on it I might never get it
finished...Plus you could then transport the panels easily and store them at
home...
>From: "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing question
>Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:50:41 -0700
>
>
>I need to decide if I can build the one piece wing. Here is the situation,
>it looks like I will be building my wing about 60 miles from my house(in my
>parents garage) I might be able to build the one piece wing there. After I
>build it, it will not fit in my garage and storing it in the house is not
>an option. I will not have a hanger for any foreseeable future so that's
>out too. Is it really feasible to build the one piece wing? Will I run
>into problems if I build the wing and fuselage without fitting them
>together? Should I just build the 3 piece wing so my life is easier? Come
>on let me know what you think, everyone has an opinion.
>
>Chris Tracy
>Sacramento, Ca
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Wing question
Date: Jun 28, 2005
Chris,
The 3-piece wing will add a significant
amount of work and time to your
project.
If at all possible, go with the 1-piece wing.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing question
> "Catdesign"
>
> I need to decide if I can build the one
> piece wing. Here is the situation, it
> looks like I will be building my wing about
> 60 miles from my house(in my parents
> garage) I might be able to build the one
> piece wing there. After I build it, it
> will not fit in my garage and storing it in
> the house is not an option. I will not
> have a hanger for any foreseeable future so
> that's out too. Is it really feasible to
> build the one piece wing? Will I run into
> problems if I build the wing and fuselage
> without fitting them together? Should I
> just build the 3 piece wing so my life is
> easier? Come on let me know what you think,
> everyone has an opinion.
>
> Chris Tracy
> Sacramento, Ca
>
>
> Forum -
> Navigator to browse
> Subscriptions page,
> Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "M&M Stanley" <tomiya(at)di.mbn.or.jp>
Subject: Re;Japanese Piets in progress
Date: Jun 28, 2005
Steve-san,
Anata no message domo arigato. Ashita, Mita-san hanashimasu.
Boku mo omoimas, Mita-san no Pietenpol wa, Kirei Desu!!
Ja ne!
Mark Stanley
Japan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Kirei na Pietenpol. Mita-san Gokurosama desu! Mo sugu tobu to omoimas!
Steve E
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
Subject: built up spar testing
Date: Jun 28, 2005
The subject comes up every now and then about the possible use of a builtup spar
to save weight and or cost.
Here is as site that might be helpful when it comes to testing;
http://www.flysquirrel.net/wing/spartest.html
Also here is a very nice Australian Piet construction site http://www.cpc-world.com/
It is Corvair powered and has built up box spars.
Look on page 4 of the photo and there are a few of the spar construction
I believe the plans for the box spar are available in the UK.
(I'm told that they will not be sold in the USA because fear of our legal profession.)
When I wrote to the Pietenpol family asking about these spars I didn't even get
an acknowledgement.
Bob B.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: seminar on rigging
I would second that one. Just starting a discussion on Piet landing gear in
general would generate hundreds of questions I would think, given all the
alternative ways landing gear can be done.
Rick H
On 6/27/05, Dennis Engelkenjohn wrote:
>
> wingding(at)usmo.com>
>
> How about someone doing a seminar or jigging up a landing gear. The steel
> split gear preferably?
> Dennis
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 8:42 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: seminar on rigging
>
>
>
> >
> > It would be nice to have someone present the proper rigging procedures
> for
> > Pietenpols for guys who might
> > be EAA Technical Counselors tutoring builders in their area. (or for
> > builders directly. Jack Phillips comes to
> > mind, but he'll be quite busy answering questions about his beautiful
> new
> > airplane.
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2005
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: One-piece wing
From: "Christopher Friel" <cjfriel(at)ucdavis.edu>
Chris, Glad to hear that you are starting on the wing. I also had to build
my piet a good distance from where I live and I built the 3-piece wing. I
can think of many reasons that favor the 3-piece: It seems a lot easier to
handle 2-15' pieces, it is definetly easier to move from shop to shop, and
just in case it is going to take a bit more time to finish the rest of the
plane, the two wings are easier to store in a regular garage. There should
be no problem having built the fuselage first although I wish I had built
the wings first just because they're so cool to have around the shop. The
one piece wing is ideal for bachelors or people with lots of shop space.
There is, in my mind at least, no disadvantage to the 3-piece. Having to
build a one-piece wing would have been a deal breaker for me because I
never could have found the space.
Chris
Davis, CA
> From: "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing question
>
>
>
> I need to decide if I can build the one piece wing. Here is the
> situation,
> it looks like I will be building my wing about 60 miles from my house(in
> my
> parents garage) I might be able to build the one piece wing there. After
> I
> build it, it will not fit in my garage and storing it in the house is not
> an
> option. I will not have a hanger for any foreseeable future so that's
out
>
> too. Is it really feasible to build the one piece wing? Will I run into
> problems if I build the wing and fuselage without fitting them together?
> Should I just build the 3 piece wing so my life is easier? Come on let me
>
> know what you think, everyone has an opinion.
>
> Chris Tracy
> Sacramento, Ca
>
Christopher Friel
Department of Plant Pathology
University of California,Davis
(530)754-7634
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Wing question
Date: Jun 28, 2005
Chris
I have built both ways. I prefer the 1 piece. As Greg said, the 3 piece is
more work, but the 1 piece is a lot to handle. Moving it around requires
1-2 helpers and takes up space for a long period of time. Will your parents
be willing to give up 30'x6' while you are covering and painting? You wont
be able to leave it vertical during that time. Have you considered joining
an EAA chapter with a hangar that would have space to rent?
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing question
>
>
> I need to decide if I can build the one piece wing. Here is the
> situation, it looks like I will be building my wing about 60 miles from my
> house(in my parents garage) I might be able to build the one piece wing
> there. After I build it, it will not fit in my garage and storing it in
> the house is not an option. I will not have a hanger for any foreseeable
> future so that's out too. Is it really feasible to build the one piece
> wing? Will I run into problems if I build the wing and fuselage without
> fitting them together? Should I just build the 3 piece wing so my life is
> easier? Come on let me know what you think, everyone has an opinion.
>
> Chris Tracy
> Sacramento, Ca
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing question
Date: Jun 28, 2005
From: harvey.rule(at)bell.ca
FILETIME=[BF8B4080:01C57BF7]
30 x 6 is the minimum amount of space he'll need.Think about it.The
table will have to be almost double the size in width and longer than 30
ft by at least 3 feet.How about the living room and the dinning room
combined and maybe even the bathroom in a small place.Oh can I use your
kitchen for the next few months while I putter away at this thing?Where
are you going to keep all the wood as you put this thing together;the
glue,the nails,the tools,etc,etc,etc.By the time you get finished you'll
be lucky if anyone within a blocks radius will talk to you.Invite your
friends and neighbours over for a get together when you get this thing
about half finished ,it makes for a hell of a conversation piece.That is
if you can get them in the door.Did I mention the sawdust?Who the hell
has a garage that big anyway? Why not build two while your at it ,one
for your wife if she hasn't left you!Build an extra one to hang up in
your living room and dinning room as a decoration.Paint it pretty
colours.Everyone will love it!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick
Navratil
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing question
Chris
I have built both ways. I prefer the 1 piece. As Greg said, the 3
piece is
more work, but the 1 piece is a lot to handle. Moving it around
requires
1-2 helpers and takes up space for a long period of time. Will your
parents
be willing to give up 30'x6' while you are covering and painting? You
wont
be able to leave it vertical during that time. Have you considered
joining
an EAA chapter with a hangar that would have space to rent?
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing question
>
>
> I need to decide if I can build the one piece wing. Here is the
> situation, it looks like I will be building my wing about 60 miles
from my
> house(in my parents garage) I might be able to build the one piece
wing
> there. After I build it, it will not fit in my garage and storing it
in
> the house is not an option. I will not have a hanger for any
foreseeable
> future so that's out too. Is it really feasible to build the one
piece
> wing? Will I run into problems if I build the wing and fuselage
without
> fitting them together? Should I just build the 3 piece wing so my life
is
> easier? Come on let me know what you think, everyone has an opinion.
>
> Chris Tracy
> Sacramento, Ca
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 28, 2005
Subject: Re: A-65 starter
Cont. made a starter for a dash nine 65. I have not seen one but it was
big and heavy. It has a different back case than most 65s. Ken Conrad in
DRY eastern Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re;Japanese Piets in progress
Date: Jun 28, 2005
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Very clever Jim!
I know it would be hard to tell, but we are still on topic. Just that
the message is in Romanized Japanese. I spent two years there as a
missionary -enjoyed the country, people and culture very much.
I simply said that building an airplane in that constrained environment
(airspace and floor-space) is a heroic undertaking and is to be
congratulated, and that after building such a beauty so closely matching
the Pietenpol plans with obvious logical concession to a more modern
power plant, will sticking with the short fuse, (a personal choice I
followed as well) that I thought it would be a great addition to the
Japanese skies and should be a great flying airplane.
He replied:
Thanks for your kind comments on my friends aircraft. Tomorrow after a
long days work in the rice fields we will retire to the hanger and have
a good long chat together about airplanes over a cool drink before we
get to work putting the three piece wing halfs on a rotisserie to
complete the final color coats of paint. I think Mr Mita's aircamper is
a really beauty too, and hope mine turns out half as well so we can fly
formation together in the land of the rising sun!
There you have it. Sorry to leave you'all out.
Steve E :-)
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Markle
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re;Japanese Piets in progress
You guys need to add: offee topicee to your manigoofymessageswan
-----Original Message-----
From: M&M Stanley
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re;Japanese Piets in progress
Steve-san,
Anata no message domo arigato. Ashita, Mita-san hanashimasu.
Boku mo omoimas, Mita-san no Pietenpol wa, Kirei Desu!!
Ja ne!
Mark Stanley
Japan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Kirei na Pietenpol. Mita-san Gokurosama desu! Mo sugu tobu to omoimas!
Steve E
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re;Japanese Piets in progress
Date: Jun 28, 2005
FILETIME=[31885BD0:01C57C13]
I look forward to seeing pictures in the future of the finished
product.I used to work with a Japanese fellow and I still marvel at the
workmanship he did.Very fine.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Eldredge
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re;Japanese Piets in progress
Very clever Jim!
I know it would be hard to tell, but we are still on topic. Just that
the message is in Romanized Japanese. I spent two years there as a
missionary -enjoyed the country, people and culture very much.
I simply said that building an airplane in that constrained environment
(airspace and floor-space) is a heroic undertaking and is to be
congratulated, and that after building such a beauty so closely matching
the Pietenpol plans with obvious logical concession to a more modern
power plant, will sticking with the short fuse, (a personal choice I
followed as well) that I thought it would be a great addition to the
Japanese skies and should be a great flying airplane.
He replied:
Thanks for your kind comments on my friends aircraft. Tomorrow after a
long days work in the rice fields we will retire to the hanger and have
a good long chat together about airplanes over a cool drink before we
get to work putting the three piece wing halfs on a rotisserie to
complete the final color coats of paint. I think Mr Mita's aircamper is
a really beauty too, and hope mine turns out half as well so we can fly
formation together in the land of the rising sun!
There you have it. Sorry to leave you'all out.
Steve E :-)
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Markle
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re;Japanese Piets in progress
You guys need to add: offee topicee to your manigoofymessageswan
-----Original Message-----
From: M&M Stanley
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re;Japanese Piets in progress
Steve-san,
Anata no message domo arigato. Ashita, Mita-san hanashimasu.
Boku mo omoimas, Mita-san no Pietenpol wa, Kirei Desu!!
Ja ne!
Mark Stanley
Japan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Kirei na Pietenpol. Mita-san Gokurosama desu! Mo sugu tobu to omoimas!
Steve E
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
<003301c57bf1$24d809c0$0700a8c0@DICKLAPTOP>
Subject: Re: Wing question
Date: Jun 28, 2005
Chris,
While I used a three-piece wing on my Pietenpol because of limited working
space, I would have preferred to use the one-piece version since it is:
1. Lighter*
2. Easier to build**
3. Less expensive***
Once the wing is mounted, and remains so, the advantage of the three-piece
version disappears. In 35 years, I have had the wings off only twice for
painting and replacing the fabric covering, So, if you keep it hangared
while not flying and don't "bend" it while flying, you won't be bothered
very frequently by the awkwardness of a 30 foot wing.
The limiting factor, as I see it, is the amount of working space available
to the builder.
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
* BHP himself told me one could save as much as 15 pounds by using the
one-piece wing.
**Alignment of the one-piece version is facilitated while building and
making two extra butt ribs is not required. As well, reinforcing butt ribs
against fabric tension is unnecessary simply because there are no butt ribs!
***The hardware (bolts, fittings, etc.) required for the three-piece wing
will add to the cost of the project.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: PFA rally
Date: Jun 28, 2005
Graham,
Will you be at the PFA rally?
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: PFA rally
Date: Jun 28, 2005
Chris,
I won't be attending because I live in central Alberta, Canada and am too far away
from great events (although I have been to OSH five times---the last in 1991).
I'd LOVE to attend Brodhead, but it is simply too far for this old guy to
fly his Pietenpol to get there (same distance to get back home, too). I really
wish I were closer, geographically speaking, to you people.
Cheers,
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 28, 2005
Subject: Re: built up spar testing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 28, 2005
Subject: Re: built up spar testing
i have some drawings of that spar
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Metal parts
Date: Jun 28, 2005
Fred,
There are lots of conversion charts out there. Most of them just add to the confusion
because the thicknesses listed are not available
from the mills.
Also, available tubing thicknesses are different than available sheet thicknesses.
Try these:
Gage to decimal for TUBING
11 ga .120
12 ga N/A
13 ga .095
14 ga .083
16 ga .065
17 ga .058
18 ga .049
20 ga .035
22 ga .028
Gage to decimal for SHEET
11 ga .125
12 ga .100
13 ga .090
14 ga .080
16 ga .063
18 ga .050
20 ga .040
22 ga .032 or .025
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 9:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Metal parts
Don't know if this has been covered in the archives -- probably has, but...do
folks still build metal parts per the plans, i.e. 16 gauge mild steel, or 12
gauge mild steel, for example? Or, does everyone substitue 4130 nowadays, and
if so, what gauge of 4130? Has anyone compiled a list that could be posted giving
thickness of 4130 for various parts including for the control sticks and torque
tube?
Only a month to Brodhead!
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Brodhead - is anything happening on Friday July 22nd?
Date: Jun 28, 2005
Hi all,
Will it be worth it to go to Brodhead on Friday the 22nd? We have to be in
Oshkosh very early Saturday, and since we're driving up from central Florida
(and have a bunch of pets to make arrangements for) we want to make sure
that there will actually be people and planes to see in Brodhead on Friday
before we commit to leaving a day earlier than we'd otherwise need to.
Thanks!
-Mike
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead - is anything happening on Friday July 22nd?
Date: Jun 28, 2005
Mike,
I know this from experience.
It is best to arrive at Brodhead on THursday late afternoon and then head
out to OSH on Saturday afternoon or SUnday morning.
Friday is a big day at Brodhead. If you get there at noon on Saturday, you
will esentially have missed the event.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead - is anything happening on Friday July
22nd?
>
> Hi all,
>
> Will it be worth it to go to Brodhead on Friday the 22nd? We have to be in
> Oshkosh very early Saturday, and since we're driving up from central
Florida
> (and have a bunch of pets to make arrangements for) we want to make sure
> that there will actually be people and planes to see in Brodhead on Friday
> before we commit to leaving a day earlier than we'd otherwise need to.
>
> Thanks!
> -Mike
>
> Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
> Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
> http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2005
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
July 22nd?
Subject: Re: Brodhead - is anything happening on Friday
July 22nd?
As others have written, Friday is a big day for Brodhead. I don't
know as I agree that Saturday is completely secondary, but for sure
Sunday is quiet.
>
>Hi all,
>
>Will it be worth it to go to Brodhead on Friday the 22nd? We have to be in
>Oshkosh very early Saturday, and since we're driving up from central Florida
>(and have a bunch of pets to make arrangements for) we want to make sure
>that there will actually be people and planes to see in Brodhead on Friday
>before we commit to leaving a day earlier than we'd otherwise need to.
>
>Thanks!
>-Mike
>
>Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
>Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
>http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 28, 2005
Subject: Re: Wing question
Chris,
Yours is the typical situation that drives the need for a 3 piece wing. If
building the 3 piece wing puts the project close to home, even though it will
take more construction time, you will be time ahead to avoid the drive. In
order to complete such an enormous project, like building an airplane from
scratch, you MUST do SOMETHING on the project every single day. Happy Building
!!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "M&M Stanley" <tomiya(at)di.mbn.or.jp>
Subject: Steve's translation
Date: Jun 29, 2005
HI Pieters,
Steve E's translation of our discussion was spot on! I couldn't have done it
better myself. Great work Steve!
I will try to keep the group informed about out Piets as time go's.
Mr.Mita's Piets biggest problem is the red tape here, it is very restrictive
to this type of aircraft but as always, there is a little light at the end
of the long tunnel so with luck, a Piet will grace the sky's here
eventually.
Keep on Pieting!!
Mark S,
Japan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Keri-Ann Price" <keriannprice(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Supplemental Plan Packages for the 1930 Pietenpol
Date: Jun 29, 2005
Hi Fellow Piet Builders,
I still am offering my tried and true Supplemental Plan Packages for the 1930 Pietenpol.
My articles and photos have appeared many times in the BPA newsletters.
These designs have been flying on many Piet's.
Visit my web site: http://www.geocities.com/keriannprice/Pietenpol_Plan_Packages.html>
Blue skies and sunshine,
Keri-Ann Price
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Keri-Ann Price" <keriannprice(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Fw: Supplemental Plan Packages for the 1930 Pietenpol
Date: Jun 29, 2005
Hi Fellow Piet Builders,
I still am offering my tried and true Supplemental Plan Packages for the 1930 Pietenpol.
My articles and photos have appeared many times in the BPA newsletters.
These designs have been flying on many Piet's.
( Reason For Edit: Incorrect link, Sorry for the inconvenience. )
Blue skies and sunshine,
Keri-Ann Price
Visit my web site: http://www.geocities.com/keriannprice/Pietenpol_Plan_Packages.html>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 29, 2005
Subject: 42nd EAA Fly-In El Dorado KS
This weekend - Fri Sat Sun:
Is anyone going to the 42nd annual Chapter 88 EAA Fly-In at El Dorado KS ?
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 29, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Continentals are amazing
A friend of mine had some medical problems and didn't fly his Cessna 120 for three
years. Just sat there getting dirtier and dirtier. Now he had to sell it,
so we washed it of the brown dust, and he wanted to taxi it to a hose to rinse
it.
The battery was dead, and wouldn't take a charge.
He got in and primed it, and on the 6th flip of the prop, it was running, even
on the old gas.
Man, that metal prop was sharp, had to put on gloves.
Ain't life grand!
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: 42nd EAA Fly-In El Dorado KS
Date: Jun 29, 2005
Chuck,
You'll have to enjoy it for me(!!) -- I get to run the museum (Exploration
Place, Wichita, KS) this weekend -- guess I can set-up our flight sim Piet
to be flying from El Dorado!
I DO plan to setup a tent on the west side of the field at Brodhead (most
likely Fri) -- see ya all there!
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 4:29 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 42nd EAA Fly-In El Dorado KS
This weekend - Fri Sat Sun:
Is anyone going to the 42nd annual Chapter 88 EAA Fly-In at El Dorado KS ?
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 29, 2005
From: Mark <aerialphotos(at)dp.net>
Subject: Re: Continentals are amazing
SpamAssassin (score=-2.558, required 3, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.04,
BAYES_00 -2.60)
walt evans wrote:
> A friend of mine had some medical problems and didn't fly his Cessna
> 120 for three years. Just sat there getting dirtier and dirtier. Now
> he had to sell it, so we washed it of the brown dust, and he wanted to
> taxi it to a hose to rinse it.
> The battery was dead, and wouldn't take a charge.
> He got in and primed it, and on the 6th flip of the prop, it was
> running, even on the old gas.
> Man, that metal prop was sharp, had to put on gloves.
> Ain't life grand!
> walt evans
> NX140DL
Starting is one thing, but was it smart? Id want several things done
before I fired an engine that had sat that long. Id be interest in the
mechanics in here opinions on what they would do with an engine that had
sat that long without any maintenance.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 30, 2005
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Next TACO meeting to honor Steve Ruse
report
Hey guys,
I'd still like to get together soon if you guys can make it. Any
thoughts on a
destination or date? Somewhere between San Antonio and Dallas would be great
for me. The last weekend in July is out for me, I'll be at Oshkosh.
Steve Ruse
N6383J - KFTW
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>> N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
>> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 8:19 PM
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Next TACO meeting to honor Steve Ruse
>>
>>
>> Actually the subject line should read... Next TACO meeting to honor and
>> induct Steve Ruse and gawk at his new Texas Air Camper...
>>
>> As soon as Steve has an idea of when he will have his Air Camper in
>> Texas, and at a time convenient to him, let's have a meeting. Maybe we can
>> tie this into Mike Cuy's visit. Maybe Corky can swing by? Maybe Oscar will
>> have his repairs done and can meet us at a location between San Antonio and
>> Dallas if there isn't a Presidential TFR. Maybe some other Yankees
>> other than
>> Mike can visit?
>>
>> Just a thought.
>>
>> Sterling
>> 5TA6
>> NOTAMS. Fresh cow chips on runway, land at your own risk.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 30, 2005
Subject: Re: Wing Construction opinions
In a message dated 6/30/2005 1:01:43 AM Central Standard Time,
catdesign(at)intergate.com writes:
Well I'm not
proud to admit this, but I figure if it's sitting in Dad's garage he will of
course have to help me and well, hey Dad you mind gluing this up for me
while I'm gone and hey why dont you do the same thing to the other one while
your at it. I think it will be cool to include him in this endeavor, he is
a long time EAAer but never a plane builder, he wants an RV-7 but at 68 I
doubt he would start one.
Chris,
In light of this new info, I change my opinion, and think you should
DEFINITELY build the 3 piece wing, 60 miles away at your Dad's place. I know his
type, and I Guarantee you he will become enthusiastically involved. I also
Guarantee you he will enjoy flying the ol' Pietenpol more than anything he has
ever
flown. You could easily build many of the sub assemblies at home, and use his
place for final assembly. Building a Pietenpol is a Perfect Father / Son
project...especially if he has the tools and does a lot of the work...just ask
Mad Dawg Davis, or Sterling Brooks !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 30, 2005
Subject: Re: Next TACO meeting to honor Steve Ruse
In a message dated 6/30/2005 9:14:49 AM Central Standard Time,
steve(at)wotelectronics.com writes:
Hey guys,
I'd still like to get together soon if you guys can make it. Any
thoughts on a
destination or date? Somewhere between San Antonio and Dallas would be great
for me. The last weekend in July is out for me, I'll be at Oshkosh.
Steve Ruse
N6383J - KFTW
Ditto for me !! I'm holding back a couple days vacation for this one !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Keri-Ann Price" <keriannprice(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol Supplemental Plan Packages offered ...
Date: Jul 01, 2005
Hi Fellow Piet Builders,
There has been a problem with my web site link, this one will get you there.
I do not offer anymore, due to copying and sharing violations, of my Plan packages
in CD or E-mail. Only the Hard copy print packages are available.
Soon to come: late 2005 a 3D modeling plan package of all my supplemental packages.
Also a full set of Pietenpol plans with all parts in 3D model. You will
be able to view every detail of her in any view and from any angle!
( Reason For Edit: Re-did link, Sorry for the inconvenience. )
Blue skies and sunshine,
Keri-Ann Price
Visit my web site: http://www.geocities.com/keriannprice/Pietenpol_Plan_Packages.html
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: brakes
Date: Jul 01, 2005
Anybody out there using heel brakes with a rudder bar? If so, are they
standard "Cub style" Scott heel brakes/masters?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: Next TACO meeting to honor Steve Ruse
Date: Jul 01, 2005
I'd like to know what Sterling Brook's email address is. Has changed it? I've had
it in my address book but wasn't able to reach him. Can anyone enlighten me?
...Thanks.....Carl Vought
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Next TACO meeting to honor Steve Ruse
In a message dated 6/30/2005 9:14:49 AM Central Standard Time, steve(at)wotelectronics.com
writes:
Hey guys,
I'd still like to get together soon if you guys can make it. Any
thoughts on a
destination or date? Somewhere between San Antonio and Dallas would be great
for me. The last weekend in July is out for me, I'll be at Oshkosh.
Steve Ruse
N6383J - KFTW
Ditto for me !! I'm holding back a couple days vacation for this one !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Keri-Ann Price" <keriannprice(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Try this ..... Plan Packages.
Date: Jul 01, 2005
Hi Piet Builders,
Seems " YaHoo " does not like the link posted here when you click on it, something
about linking from this server. It works for me if I " Copy and Paste " the
link into my browsers menu, then click go.
Sorry again for all this trouble ..... will be updating the site to a new web page
late this 2005 with 3D models of the Pietenpol.
Will keep you posted.
Blue skies and sunshine,
Keri-Ann
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: brakes
Date: Jul 01, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Hi Oscar,
I have heel brakes with the rudder bar on my Pietenpol. I tried to use
the Scott master cylinders like a Cub has, but they would not fit under
the rudder bar. This may not be a problem as I think the rudder bar
feels too low and have actually added extensions to mine to get it up
where a pedal would be. You caould probably raise the rudder bar with
no problems.
I used Matco master cylinders with a separate fluid reservoir. Works
fine. If you like I can send you some pictures.
Jack Phillips
Trying to get the 25 hours flown off so I can fly NX899JP to Brodhead
Anybody out there using heel brakes with a rudder bar? If so, are they
standard "Cub style" Scott heel brakes/masters?
Oscar Zuniga
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 01, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: brakes
Oscar,
I fabricated my heel actuators that work cables down to go kart drum brakes.
They are strong enough to hold for run-up and to slow the plane without fear
of nose-over. I'm very satisfied how they came out and function.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: brakes
>
> Anybody out there using heel brakes with a rudder bar? If so, are they
> standard "Cub style" Scott heel brakes/masters?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: brakes
Date: Jul 01, 2005
Has anyone out there ever tried the disc type brake setups from the front
axles of 2 wheel drive ATV's? Old timers disease, can't remember if I asked
this question before.
Gordon Bowen
N-1033B
----- Original Message -----
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brakes
>
> Oscar,
> I fabricated my heel actuators that work cables down to go kart drum
brakes.
> They are strong enough to hold for run-up and to slow the plane without
fear
> of nose-over. I'm very satisfied how they came out and function.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 9:18 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: brakes
>
>
>
> >
> > Anybody out there using heel brakes with a rudder bar? If so, are they
> > standard "Cub style" Scott heel brakes/masters?
> >
> > Oscar Zuniga
> > San Antonio, TX
> > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22
Date: Jul 01, 2005
This may be of great interest to a couple of you oldtimers out there with pending
Class III medicals. FAA's catch-22--- I've had a Med Class III or better
for 38 years. Went in for renewal of physical two months ago, FAA doctor discovers
irregular heartbeat, trip to cardiac specialist determines atrial fib.,
needing meds for control, seems this is a very common heart problem for guys over
60. I can get Class III back, BUT- FAA now requires yearly expensive nuclear
stress testing and/or Holter montior to keep flying anything and special
variance class III now only good for one year. But- I cannot drop back to a
Sport Pilot lic., which requires no physical exam. Catch 22-----with the Sport
Pilot Lic. one can fly with many many medical problems as long as they don't
debilitate ability to fly, and no medical exam is required. The sport pilot
actually certifies themselves to be medically qualified. But once you're in
the FAA system for any medical reason, you cannot fly anything including planes
that meet the sport pilot lic requirements, unless the FAA certifies you're
medically ok, and they take their sweet time about it with mountains of medical
records you supply from your heart doc, at a very high cost to you. Sofar
I'm out of pocket for medical about $5K, this about 1/3 of what my insurance
cos. out., all because of something that can be controlled with medication, identified
by a simple EKG but due to FAA's list of required medical tests is now
out of control.
So here's a tip of you older guys with any FAA medical class- go to your regular
doctor before you go to the FAA doctor (just about anybody can have problems
in a McD culinary world, maybe a couple clogged arteries). If something abnormal
pops up, let your FAA medical class expire, fergetaboutit. Drop back
to the sport pilot rating, you automatically have one due to your Private ticket
and keep yourself flying. If you get the FAA medical folks involved, it's
gonna be expensive and at min. 6 months hassle to get med. class back, meanwhile
grounded.
Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
Cozy IV N64CY
Osprey II N64SY
Pietenpol N-1033B
" But such is the constitution of my mind I cannot avoid forming an opinion", John
Adams
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 01, 2005
From: Mark <aerialphotos(at)dp.net>
Subject: Re: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22
SpamAssassin (score=-2.557, required 3, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.04,
BAYES_00 -2.60, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB 0.01)
Gordon Bowen wrote:
> This may be of great interest to a couple of you oldtimers out there
> with pending Class III medicals. FAA's catch-22--- I've had a Med
> Class III or better for 38 years. Went in for renewal of physical two
> months ago, FAA doctor discovers irregular heartbeat, trip to cardiac
> specialist determines atrial fib., needing meds for control, seems
> this is a very common heart problem for guys over 60. I can get Class
> III back, BUT- FAA now requires yearly expensive nuclear stress
> testing and/or Holter montior to keep flying anything and special
> variance class III now only good for one year. But- I cannot drop
> back to a Sport Pilot lic., which requires no physical exam. Catch
> 22-----with the Sport Pilot Lic. one can fly with many many medical
> problems as long as they don't debilitate ability to fly, and no
> medical exam is required. The sport pilot actually certifies
> themselves to be medically qualified. But once you're in the FAA
> system for any medical reason, you cannot fly anything including
> planes that meet the sport pilot lic requirements, unless the FAA
> certifies you're medically ok, and they take their sweet time about it
> with mountains of medical records you supply from your heart doc, at a
> very high cost to you. Sofar I'm out of pocket for medical about $5K,
> this about 1/3 of what my insurance cos. out., all because of
> something that can be controlled with medication, identified by a
> simple EKG but due to FAA's list of required medical tests is now out
> of control.
>
> So here's a tip of you older guys with any FAA medical class- go to
> your regular doctor before you go to the FAA doctor (just about
> anybody can have problems in a McD culinary world, maybe a
> couple clogged arteries). If something abnormal pops up, let your
> FAA medical class expire, fergetaboutit. Drop back to the sport
> pilot rating, you automatically have one due to your Private ticket
> and keep yourself flying. If you get the FAA medical folks involved,
> it's gonna be expensive and at min. 6 months hassle to get med. class
> back, meanwhile grounded.
> Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
> Cozy IV N64CY
> Osprey II N64SY
> Pietenpol N-1033B
> " But such is the constitution of my mind I cannot avoid forming an
> opinion", John Adams
Actually there is one other option you might want to consider. You have
not been denied. What you can do is make a request to be considered for
the Sport Pilot and the FAA can review the case individually and they
already have the data. They may give you a one time ok for LSA and then
allow you on your way, but I would recommend talking with AOPA medical
certification division and your AME. At 5K a year to keep it, I feel
your pain.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22
Date: Jul 01, 2005
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22
> Done a good bit of research since the atria fib problem showed up the last
> phyiscal. The FAA medical examiner I use does only flight phyiscals in
> Anchorage, was formerly Delta's flight medical doctor, she wants to help.
> The FAA has an info flyer they handed out at the Alaskan Airmen Show a
> couple months ago, re a-fib, apparently very common problem. I'm jumpin'
> thru their complete list of test, all these tests appear to be redundant,
> they're all expense and only available to me in Anchorage. You're right
> about: a) you gotta get the class III med. variance back in good standing
> before you fly anything, you're simply grounded. b) those with a sport
> pilots lic, can fly unless they "know" of some medical reason they should
> not fly, that little rule is hidden in the FAR's someplace else.
According
> to this FAR, even if a pilot has a valid medical, if they "know" of some
> medical reason they shouldn't be flying they must ground themselves.
A-fib
> is mostly corrected by med, or a pacemaker or ablation, if you have any of
> the intrusive medical corrections done, you're grounded for min. 6 months,
> and you have to redo the expense list of test and then petition the FAA
> medical folks in OK for a medical special variance. Your class III now
must
> be recked every year, every two years, redoing some portion of these
> expensive tests each year, getting a special variance each and every year.
> Heart Specialist who's an avid flyer, wants to help best he can, tells me
> they simply don't know what causes A-fib, it just shows up sometimes in
some
> random number of people. Meds, control but don't fix. Problem is with
> FAA's Catch 22 rules- it simply doesn't make any sense that anyone with a
> driver's lic, some knowledge of flying, and an instructor's endorsement
can
> jump in a plane that meets the sport plane rules and away they go. The
> private ticket with 38 years of good Class III's or higher, is still
> absolutely grounded should any FAA medical examiner find anything wrong.
> The hoops the FAA medical people in Oklahoma make you jump thru the rest
of
> your flying career don't make sense, you jump thru these test each year,
if
> you want the class III medical. Had I have gone to my private doctor,
found
> the a-fib, taken the meds to control, I could have simply let my Class III
> end, and could have been not grounded but flying any plane that meets the
> sport plane rules, this is a classic gov't Catch-22. Recommend to any of
> you guys, go to you private doctor for cursory check-up before going into
> the FAA Medical Examiner. The FAA Med. Examiner must report you to the
FAA
> in OK, should they find anything wrong. Being on meds and having the
a-fib
> under control is no reason to ground yourself, if you're willing to only
> sport fly.
> Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
> Cozy IV N64CY
> Osprey II N64SY
> Pietenpol N-1033B
>
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAtAhUAtagZriDKpyJ+LA6EqA8pi8AS6rcCFDoWbnUz9sFX/6rikQWKmDlhU6tA
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Jul 01, 2005
Subject: ATV brakes
I am using Hager brakes, axels, and master cyls. from AS&S. Thse have
their origion in go-carts or atv"s. I'm using their heel actuated brake
cylinders. which set below the rudder bar. I haven't mounted them yet,
so I can't tell you howthey feel. (or work) Wheels are aluminum Dougless
wheels as used on 4-wheelers. Entire cub type landing gear minus bungees
is 48 lbs. Leon S. in Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 01, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: brakes
Try here.
http://www.gopowersports.com/
for drum brakes
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: brakes
>
> Anybody out there using heel brakes with a rudder bar? If so, are they
> standard "Cub style" Scott heel brakes/masters?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 01, 2005
From: "Stephen!" <pietenpol(at)imagesdesavions.com>
Subject: Hello!
Just signed up for this list and wanted to say "Hi". I probably
won't be posting a whole lot to the list because I am still a while away
from starting a build but I am real interested in the Pietenpol and plan
to lurk in the shadows and absorb as much knowledge as I can while I'm
here...
-Stephen!
--
IBA# 11465
http://imagesdesavions.com
________________________________________________________________________________
;
Date: Jul 01, 2005
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22
That is true Gordon. I also highly recommend going to
a family physician BEFORE the flight physical. But,
with the Sport lic., a Class III medical isn't
necessary. But if something does come up that would
ground you on the flight physical, you can just avoid
the flight physical altogether and fly on the Sport
lic. Thank goodness for that safety net. Everything
Gordon said is true and should be considered before
you become an FAA casualty.
Doc
--- Gordon Bowen wrote:
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 11:39 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Lic,
> Medical Catch-22
>
>
> > Done a good bit of research since the atria fib
> problem showed up the last
> > phyiscal. The FAA medical examiner I use does
> only flight phyiscals in
> > Anchorage, was formerly Delta's flight medical
> doctor, she wants to help.
> > The FAA has an info flyer they handed out at the
> Alaskan Airmen Show a
> > couple months ago, re a-fib, apparently very
> common problem. I'm jumpin'
> > thru their complete list of test, all these tests
> appear to be redundant,
> > they're all expense and only available to me in
> Anchorage. You're right
> > about: a) you gotta get the class III med.
> variance back in good standing
> > before you fly anything, you're simply grounded.
> b) those with a sport
> > pilots lic, can fly unless they "know" of some
> medical reason they should
> > not fly, that little rule is hidden in the FAR's
> someplace else.
> According
> > to this FAR, even if a pilot has a valid medical,
> if they "know" of some
> > medical reason they shouldn't be flying they must
> ground themselves.
> A-fib
> > is mostly corrected by med, or a pacemaker or
> ablation, if you have any of
> > the intrusive medical corrections done, you're
> grounded for min. 6 months,
> > and you have to redo the expense list of test and
> then petition the FAA
> > medical folks in OK for a medical special
> variance. Your class III now
> must
> > be recked every year, every two years, redoing
> some portion of these
> > expensive tests each year, getting a special
> variance each and every year.
> > Heart Specialist who's an avid flyer, wants to
> help best he can, tells me
> > they simply don't know what causes A-fib, it just
> shows up sometimes in
> some
> > random number of people. Meds, control but don't
> fix. Problem is with
> > FAA's Catch 22 rules- it simply doesn't make any
> sense that anyone with a
> > driver's lic, some knowledge of flying, and an
> instructor's endorsement
> can
> > jump in a plane that meets the sport plane rules
> and away they go. The
> > private ticket with 38 years of good Class III's
> or higher, is still
> > absolutely grounded should any FAA medical
> examiner find anything wrong.
> > The hoops the FAA medical people in Oklahoma make
> you jump thru the rest
> of
> > your flying career don't make sense, you jump thru
> these test each year,
> if
> > you want the class III medical. Had I have gone
> to my private doctor,
> found
> > the a-fib, taken the meds to control, I could have
> simply let my Class III
> > end, and could have been not grounded but flying
> any plane that meets the
> > sport plane rules, this is a classic gov't
> Catch-22. Recommend to any of
> > you guys, go to you private doctor for cursory
> check-up before going into
> > the FAA Medical Examiner. The FAA Med. Examiner
> must report you to the
> FAA
> > in OK, should they find anything wrong. Being on
> meds and having the
> a-fib
> > under control is no reason to ground yourself, if
> you're willing to only
> > sport fly.
> > Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
> > Cozy IV N64CY
> > Osprey II N64SY
> > Pietenpol N-1033B
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 01, 2005
Subject: Re: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22
As a wise ole sarg once told us recruits, 1 Never volunteer anything or for
anything 2 He who asks questions gets answers and usually not the answers it
wants.
An old soldier in Louisiana
Die Fidelen Achtziger
________________________________________________________________________________
;
Date: Jul 01, 2005
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hello!
Welcome Stephen. The Piet is a very nice and easy to
build plane. You have made a good choice with the
Piet. Why not start building and work at your own
pace? There is no time limit on when the project gets
finished. You will find the construction fun and
relaxing. You are rewarded with each componet you
build and you will feel good about what you are doing.
Either way, have fun and best wishes.
Doc
--- Stephen! wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Just signed up for this list and wanted to say
> "Hi". I probably
> won't be posting a whole lot to the list because I
> am still a while away
> from starting a build but I am real interested in
> the Pietenpol and plan
> to lurk in the shadows and absorb as much knowledge
> as I can while I'm
> here...
>
> -Stephen!
>
> --
> IBA# 11465
> http://imagesdesavions.com
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Hello!
Date: Jul 01, 2005
Stephen,
Welcome...........of all the homebuilts you could be considering and groups
you could be lurking, you made the best choice. The Pietenpol design lends
itself to the be best homebuilt for ease of building and ease of adapting
where needed.
Gordon Bowen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen!" <pietenpol(at)imagesdesavions.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hello!
>
>
> Just signed up for this list and wanted to say "Hi". I probably
> won't be posting a whole lot to the list because I am still a while away
> from starting a build but I am real interested in the Pietenpol and plan
> to lurk in the shadows and absorb as much knowledge as I can while I'm
> here...
>
> -Stephen!
>
> --
> IBA# 11465
> http://imagesdesavions.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 01, 2005
From: "Stephen!" <pietenpol(at)imagesdesavions.com>
Subject: Re: Hello!
Galen Hutcheson wrote:
> Welcome Stephen.
Thank you...
> The Piet is a very nice and easy to build plane.
After reading the write-up on avweb I can see that...
> Why not start building and work at your own pace?
Oh, soooo many reasons...
I'm in Hawaii. Will be leaving early next year. I'm lucky to have a
carport, no such thing as a garage or shop in my life now. No place to
put the parts, no time to do much of anything right now...
> There is no time limit on when the project gets
> finished.
*that's* a good thing... When I do start it'll have to compete with all
of my other hobbies... I'm thinking it'll make a good winter-time
project when my bike is trapped behind a snowdrift...
--
IBA# 11465
http://imagesdesavions.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 01, 2005
From: "Stephen!" <pietenpol(at)imagesdesavions.com>
Subject: Re: Hello!
<01af01c57ea8$8c739e00$1ca470d1@defaultcomp>
Gordon Bowen wrote:
> itself to the be best homebuilt for ease of building and ease of adapting
> where needed.
"adapting"... That, I like...
Where is the best place to learn about the process of building outside
of the actual building process its self? Where can I find an easy to
understand, comprehensive list (perhaps?) of what I need to do to get
this thing off the ground, so to speak. I'm sure it cannot be as simple
as just gettin' 'er done and jumping in for a flight. For example, are
there progressive FAA inspections that need to be done and such?
I am a pilot, I am a craftsman, I have yet to combine the two and know
not where to start...
Have I made any sense in my questions or have I just confused you?
--
IBA# 11465
http://imagesdesavions.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 01, 2005
From: "Stephen!" <pietenpol(at)imagesdesavions.com>
Subject: Re: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22
Gordon Bowen wrote:
> So here's a tip of you older guys with any FAA medical class
Sorry to hear about your medical problems, Gordon. There's a lot of guy
around here that had to give up power all together and go glider...
> Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
Hey... Does Tom Bodette still do his radio show from up there? I
haven't heard him on the air for a good number of years now.
--
IBA# 11465
http://imagesdesavions.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 02, 2005
Subject: Re: brakes
In a message dated 7/1/2005 8:19:25 AM Central Standard Time,
taildrags(at)hotmail.com writes:
Anybody out there using heel brakes with a rudder bar? If so, are they
standard "Cub style" Scott heel brakes/masters?
Oscar,
I built my heel brakes that actuate Mooney master cylinders, and a remote
master cylinder. They are compact, work very well, and are easy to get used to.
I have some good detail photo's of my set up, if you would like me to e-mail
them directly to you. There is a lot of 'Stuff' going on under my front
cockpit seat, and these pictures really explain a lot !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 02, 2005
Subject: Re: Hello!
Stephen, welcome to the group !!
In a message dated 7/1/2005 10:33:27 PM Central Standard Time,
pietenpol(at)imagesdesavions.com writes:
Where is the best place to learn about the process of building outside
of the actual building process its self?
Join the EAA, and a local chapter, stay with this Pietenpol List, and
definatelly Go To Brodhead !!
Where can I find an easy to understand, comprehensive list (perhaps?) of what
I need to do to get this thing off the ground, so to speak.
Check the archives, listed at the bottom of every e-mail on this list.
I'm sure it cannot be as simple as just gettin' 'er done and jumping in for a
flight. For example, are there progressive FAA inspections that need to be
done and such?
Some years ago, there were progressive inspections required by the FAA...a
'Pre-Cover' inspection comes to mind. The EAA now has Tech Counselors, Flight
Counselors, as well as a lot of other programs, that the FAA stores much faith
in. You should understand, however, that scratch building an airplane from
plans, is a long term project...albiet a Very Rewarding one !! I suggest you
buy a set of plans from Donald Pietenpol, and get started on the ribs. Doesn't
take up any more room than a coffee table.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Pietenpol's Forever !!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 01, 2005
From: "Stephen!" <pietenpol(at)imagesdesavions.com>
Subject: Re: Hello!
Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
> Stephen, welcome to the group !!
Thank you....
> Join the EAA, and a local chapter, stay with this Pietenpol List, and
> definatelly Go To Brodhead !!
Show you how green I am to things of building... "Brodhead"?
> Check the archives, listed at the bottom of every e-mail on this list.
Will do.
> Some years ago, there were progressive inspections required by the
> FAA..a 'Pre-Cover' inspection comes to mind. The EAA now has Tech
> Counsel=. ors, Flight Counselors, as well as a lot of other programs,
> that the FAA stores much faith in.
Do *these* people have to do inspections?
> You should understand, however, that scratch building an airplane from
> plans, is a long term project...albiet a Very Rewarding one !!
I assure you, I understand that. I am retiring from the military soon
and will need something to keep my idle hands busy. I've built an R/C
from scratch (I "adopted" a kit that someone started and tired of
quickly) and even though it's a *big* difference I understand it's not
an overnight process...
> I suggest you buy a set of plans from Donald Pietenpol, and get
> started on the ribs. Doesn't take up any more room than a coffee
> table.
I don't even have *that* much room right now... Nowhere to put a
steamer, no where to put the jig, no where to store the finished ribs...
Besides, I don't want to have to worry about them surviving my HHG
shipment next spring...
Thanks for the advice...
-Stephen!
Sheesh, for someone who's supposed to be lurking I've sure been yakking
a lot, eh? ;)
--
IBA# 11465
http://imagesdesavions.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "M&M Stanley" <tomiya(at)di.mbn.or.jp>
Subject: Re; Hello!
Date: Jul 02, 2005
Hi Stephen,
I am not exactly an 'old hand' in this group but I want to say welcome to
the list anyway! I am living in Japan and spare space is also a little
problem that I have. I have only finished building my ribs so I'm not
exactly an old hand at Piet building either, but, I'd say do yourself a
favor and buy a set of plans from Don Pietenpol, also get a card tube to
keep them in and start looking them over.
You will be amazed just how much you'll learn just doing that. It's great to
be able to get the plans out and actually look at the section that someone
on the list may be having trouble with or having their problem solved via
this list. Apart from that, it will make life easier when you can get
started on the building side of things. You will already have a good idea of
what go's where.
I would also recommend that you get a hold of the reprinted version of the
"1932 Flying & glider Manual", I think it's available from EAA and Aircraft
spruce also sell copies.
It has a construction article by Bernard Pietenpol on how to build a Piet.,
it's good stuff.
Anyway, hang with this group, you'll learn allot ( and buy the
plans..................from Don Pietenpol)
Enjoy!
Mark Stanley
In Hot'n' Humid Japan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
<01af01c57ea8$8c739e00$1ca470d1@defaultcomp> <42C60B06.2090900(at)imagesdesavions.com>
Subject: Re: Hello!
Date: Jul 02, 2005
Stephen,
The best place to learn about building homebuilts is to hang around the
airport where other homebuilders are working on there planes and watch. The
best organization for finding who's building what in your area is the LOCAL
chapter of the EAA. There's lots and lots of "how to" homebuilder books,
many of them very good, but many too generic to be useful. The workshops
sold around the country by Sport Air are helpful and a good start. A week
at Oskosh going from workshop tent to tent is a good start but time limited.
Spend time in shops and hangers of actual homebuilders, we love to talk
while we work on our projects. Don't rely on just one guy's methods, watch
as many as you can, then read the "how to" books. You'll know when you're
ready to put your money where you think your skills are, making a plane to
plans, or buying a kit, or adapting a set of plans to your specific needs.
Good luck.
Re: "We'll keep the light on for you", Tom Bodette still keeps a house up
here, telephone # still in phone book, he comes up in the summers to
hang-out in the DownEast Saloon or Dugan's Saloon or Salty Dog Saloon or
just fishin', but now that he's a big time radio star doing commericals and
everything fancy like that, he lives down in Seattle. Kid's are in school
in Seattle area and I understand he wanted to be nearer to them.
Re: FAA and Medical Safus, ain't no big thing. Just a helpful hint to
others before they get swept in the FAA whirlpool.
Gordon Bowen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen!" <pietenpol(at)imagesdesavions.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hello!
>
> Gordon Bowen wrote:
>
> > itself to the be best homebuilt for ease of building and ease of
adapting
> > where needed.
>
> "adapting"... That, I like...
>
> Where is the best place to learn about the process of building outside
> of the actual building process its self? Where can I find an easy to
> understand, comprehensive list (perhaps?) of what I need to do to get
> this thing off the ground, so to speak. I'm sure it cannot be as simple
> as just gettin' 'er done and jumping in for a flight. For example, are
> there progressive FAA inspections that need to be done and such?
>
> I am a pilot, I am a craftsman, I have yet to combine the two and know
> not where to start...
>
> Have I made any sense in my questions or have I just confused you?
>
> --
> IBA# 11465
> http://imagesdesavions.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 02, 2005
Subject: [ Steve Eldredge ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Steve Eldredge
Lists: Pietenpol-List
Subject: Pietenpol Hats For Sale
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/steve@byu.edu.07.02.2005/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 02, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Hello!
<42C5D429.2020308(at)imagesdesavions.com>
Stephen,
I think the best book (books) that I have ever seen on building is from a
guy named Tony Bengalis He did a series on homebuilt aircraft that is
the most down to earth approach to fabricating things that anyone has seen.
Don't know if anyone on this thread has mentioned him,,,but get his books!
Great rainy day reading.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen!" <pietenpol(at)imagesdesavions.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hello!
>
>
> Just signed up for this list and wanted to say "Hi". I probably
> won't be posting a whole lot to the list because I am still a while away
> from starting a build but I am real interested in the Pietenpol and plan
> to lurk in the shadows and absorb as much knowledge as I can while I'm
> here...
>
> -Stephen!
>
> --
> IBA# 11465
> http://imagesdesavions.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 04, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22
There are actually two other options for medical denied/revoked pilots,
1) Real ultralight - like this - http://www.cgsaviation.com/hawkultra.htm
2) Motorglider, like this - http://www.sonex-ltd.com/xenos.html
(there are some plans-built motorgliders, wondering if anyone has ever
attempted to make a Piet motorglider?)
A motorglider is defined as an aircraft that is under 1874 pounds gross, two
seat max,
and a span loading (gross weight divided by wingspan squared) no more than
0.62 lb./sq. ft.
So a Piet has a span loading of about 1100/29 * 29 1.308. So if you just
increased the wingspan to 42 ft. you would have a motorglider. (Highly
unrecommended).
Rick H.
On 7/1/05, Stephen! wrote:
>
> pietenpol(at)imagesdesavions.com>
>
>
> Gordon Bowen wrote:
>
> > So here's a tip of you older guys with any FAA medical class
>
> Sorry to hear about your medical problems, Gordon. There's a lot of guy
> around here that had to give up power all together and go glider...
>
> > Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
>
> Hey... Does Tom Bodette still do his radio show from up there? I
> haven't heard him on the air for a good number of years now.
>
>
> --
> IBA# 11465
> http://imagesdesavions.com
>
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Pietenpol on film
Date: Jul 04, 2005
Was at the video store on the weekend looking for something to watch, and
found a DVD with an illustration on the cover that looked like a Pietenpol
in flight. So I rented it. As a film it wasn't great. Even the flying scenes
were kind of hokey (digitally animated). The main character is an aviator
who crashes in some unidentified southern land where (conveniently) everyone
speaks English. He is flying what appears to be a Stampe biplane. When they
rebuild the plane from the salvaged parts, suddenly the Stampe parts become
a Pietenpol. The whole plane is covered with sewing fabric, so it looks
pretty goofy, but it's definitely a Piet. Oh, they also mount a huge round
copper fuel tank on top of the wing. There's only five or ten minutes of
Pietenpol in the whole film. The name of the film is "Facing Fear" in
Canadian release, but it's named "The Flight" in the U.S.
Here's a link to the trailer...
http://www.videodetective.com/trailer-preview.asp?publishedID=738563 .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22
Date: Jul 04, 2005
Dale and I just tried to register ours as a motorglider. We were not successful.
We did a thorough search of the regs and could find no reason that would
prohibit registering an experimental as a motorglider.
All of the regs that discussed span loading are for certified aircraft, not experimentals.
Our initial airworthiness application that was sent to OKC was accepted and NX18235
was listed in the FAA database as a "Glider, Self-launching"
All of the paperwork was approved by the local MIDO and sent on to the AB-DAR.
He denied the application based on an obscure FAA order, 8130.2-F ???, that says
experimentals must meet the same criteria as certified aircraft.
We then had to submit an amendment to our application changing it from a "Glider"
to
an "Airplane, Single engine, Land".
This added several months to our ordeal.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22
There are actually two other options for medical denied/revoked pilots,
1) Real ultralight - like this - http://www.cgsaviation.com/hawkultra.htm
2) Motorglider, like this - http://www.sonex-ltd.com/xenos.html
(there are some plans-built motorgliders, wondering if anyone has ever attempted
to make a Piet motorglider?)
A motorglider is defined as an aircraft that is under 1874 pounds gross, two
seat max,
and a span loading (gross weight divided by wingspan squared) no more than 0.62
lb./sq. ft.
So a Piet has a span loading of about 1100/29 * 29 1.308. So if you just
increased the wingspan to 42 ft. you would have a motorglider. (Highly unrecommended).
Rick H.
On 7/1/05, Stephen! wrote:
Gordon Bowen wrote:
> So here's a tip of you older guys with any FAA medical class
Sorry to hear about your medical problems, Gordon. There's a lot of guy
around here that had to give up power all together and go glider...
> Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
Hey... Does Tom Bodette still do his radio show from up there? I
haven't heard him on the air for a good number of years now.
--
IBA# 11465
http://imagesde
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22
Date: Jul 05, 2005
From: harvey.rule(at)bell.ca
FILETIME=[36C552D0:01C58152]
I understand what you are going through.I tried to register my Piet as
an ultralight up here in Canada.After talking to the right person after
months of haggling ,I finally got my plane registered as an ultralight.I
was going to have to register as a home built otherwise which was going
to cost me over 7000$ cnd in the long run.As an ultralight it cost me
20$ for a new ID plate.Go figure.A lot of what you get with the
government depends on who you talk to.Try again with a different person
and your liable to get what you want.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22
Dale and I just tried to register ours as a motorglider. We were not
successful.
We did a thorough search of the regs and could find no reason that would
prohibit registering an experimental as a motorglider.
All of the regs that discussed span loading are for certified aircraft,
not experimentals.
Our initial airworthiness application that was sent to OKC was accepted
and NX18235
was listed in the FAA database as a "Glider, Self-launching"
All of the paperwork was approved by the local MIDO and sent on to the
AB-DAR.
He denied the application based on an obscure FAA order, 8130.2-F ???,
that says
experimentals must meet the same criteria as certified aircraft.
We then had to submit an amendment to our application changing it from a
"Glider" to
an "Airplane, Single engine, Land".
This added several months to our ordeal.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland <mailto:at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22
There are actually two other options for medical denied/revoked
pilots,
=09
1) Real ultralight - like this -
http://www.cgsaviation.com/hawkultra.htm
=09
2) Motorglider, like this - http://www.sonex-ltd.com/xenos.html
(there are some plans-built motorgliders, wondering if anyone
has ever attempted to make a Piet motorglider?)
=09
A motorglider is defined as an aircraft that is under 1874
pounds gross, two seat max,
and a span loading (gross weight divided by wingspan squared) no
more than 0.62 lb./sq. ft.
=09
So a Piet has a span loading of about 1100/29 * 29 1.308. So
if you just increased the wingspan to 42 ft. you would have a
motorglider. (Highly unrecommended).
=09
Rick H.
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
On 7/1/05, Stephen! wrote:
=09
=09
=09
Gordon Bowen wrote:
=09
> So here's a tip of you older guys with any FAA medical class
=09
Sorry to hear about your medical problems, Gordon. There's a
lot of guy
around here that had to give up power all together and go
glider...
=09
> Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
=09
Hey... Does Tom Bodette still do his radio show from up there?
I
haven't heard him on the air for a good number of years now.
=09
=09
--
IBA# 11465
http://imagesde
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
--
Rick Holland <http://imagesdesavions.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Hello!
Date: Jul 05, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
As Walt Evans said, the best books for learning how to build an airplane
are the 4 Tony Bingelis books: The Sportplane Builder, Sportplane
Construction Techniques, Firewall Forward, and Tony Bingelis on Engines.
In addition, I learned a lot from the EAA Aircraft Welding book, and
their Aircraft Woodworking book.
If not an EAA member, by all means join. If there is a local chapter
that you can visit, even better, but you can get a lot of benefit from
belonging to the national organization. Go on their website,
www.eaa.org and click on the members only section, then go to
"homebuilder's headquarters". There you can find articles from past
issues of Sport Aviation that will answer most of your questions.
As someone else advised, buy the plans and study them before committing
to materials and tools. You can build a Pietenpol with simple hand
tools, but it will be easier if you have a good belt sander, a bandsaw,
a metal cutting bandsaw (that can be slowed down to 80 fpm on the blade
speed for cutting steel) and an oxy-acetylene welding rig.
There are a number of major decisions that need to be made when building
a Pietenpol, including:
Engine type (Ford "A", Corvair, Continental, or other?)
Short or Long fuselage
1-piece or 3-piece wing
Cub-style or straight axle landing gear
Sitka Spruce, Douglas Fir or other wood?
Resorcinol, T-88, Aerolite or other glues?
Tailwheel and brakes, or tailskid and no brakes?
This ain't no stinkin' kitplane where all these decisions are already
made for you and you just have to bolt the assembly together. This is
one of the beauties and the challenges of building a Pietenpol, and why
no two of them are alike.
Good luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
Gordon Bowen wrote:
> itself to the be best homebuilt for ease of building and ease of
adapting
> where needed.
"adapting"... That, I like...
Where is the best place to learn about the process of building outside
of the actual building process its self? Where can I find an easy to
understand, comprehensive list (perhaps?) of what I need to do to get
this thing off the ground, so to speak. I'm sure it cannot be as simple
as just gettin' 'er done and jumping in for a flight. For example, are
there progressive FAA inspections that need to be done and such?
I am a pilot, I am a craftsman, I have yet to combine the two and know
not where to start...
Have I made any sense in my questions or have I just confused you?
--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Keri-Ann Price" <keriannprice(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Supplemental Pietenpol Plan Packages link.
Date: Jul 05, 2005
Keri-Ann's Supplemental Pietenpol Plan Package Link<http://www.geocities.com/keriannprice/Keri-Anns_Pietenpol.html?20055>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 05, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22
Interesting, I was thinking of the same thing. Do you think it is worth
trying?
On 7/4/05, gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com wrote:
>
> Dale and I just tried to register ours as a motorglider. We were not
> successful.
> We did a thorough search of the regs and could find no reason that would
> prohibit registering an experimental as a motorglider.
> All of the regs that discussed span loading are for certified aircraft,
> not experimentals.
> Our initial airworthiness application that was sent to OKC was accepted
> and NX18235
> was listed in the FAA database as a "Glider, Self-launching"
> All of the paperwork was approved by the local MIDO and sent on to the
> AB-DAR.
> He denied the application based on an obscure FAA order, 8130.2-F ???,
> that says
> experimentals must meet the same criteria as certified aircraft.
> We then had to submit an amendment to our application changing it from a
> "Glider" to
> an "Airplane, Single engine, Land".
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
<000d01c580de$5f6affb0$11985c46@ATO>
Subject: Re: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22
Date: Jul 05, 2005
Rick,
We made the initial application prior to Sport Pilot being approved.
It made sense to try it at the time.
Joe Norris and gang at EAA OSH said we weren't the first to try and no one had
been successful.
Because of the FAA order it can't be done.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22
Interesting, I was thinking of the same thing. Do you think it is worth trying?
On 7/4/05, gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com wrote:
Dale and I just tried to register ours as a motorglider. We were not successful.
We did a thorough search of the regs and could find no reason that would
prohibit registering an experimental as a motorglider.
All of the regs that discussed span loading are for certified aircraft, not
experimentals.
Our initial airworthiness application that was sent to OKC was accepted and
NX18235
was listed in the FAA database as a "Glider, Self-launching"
All of the paperwork was approved by the local MIDO and sent on to the AB-DAR.
He denied the application based on an obscure FAA order, 8130.2-F ???, that
says
experimentals must meet the same criteria as certified aircraft.
We then had to submit an amendment to our application changing it from a "Glider"
to
an "Airplane, Single engine, Land".
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 06, 2005
Subject: Not free Advertising
From: rhartwig11(at)juno.com
Keri-Ann,
This is a discussion list, not free advertising for a business. A sure
way to turn off Pietenpol builders is to take unfair advantage of a free
service that is provided to promote aircraft building. Matt Dralle would
probably appreciate it if you would send him a few hundred bucks for the
advertising you have already done.
Dick Hartwig
rhartwig11(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Cont. A-65 runup
Date: Jul 06, 2005
Howdy, Pieters;
Just wondering what RPM all y'all A-65 drivers use for doing your engine
runup/carb heat check/mag check. 1500 RPM? 1700?
Thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cont. A-65 runup
Date: Jul 06, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
I use 1600. Get about a 100 RPM drop on each mag, about 75 RPM with
carb heat
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cont. A-65 runup
Howdy, Pieters;
Just wondering what RPM all y'all A-65 drivers use for doing your engine
runup/carb heat check/mag check. 1500 RPM? 1700?
Thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: A-65 exhaust studs
Date: Jul 06, 2005
Howdy again, Pieters;
Hate to be a pest here, but this is the best place for me to find the
answers I need. Anybody know what the recommended torque is for the nuts
holding the exhaust stacks to the studs on the Cont. A-65?
Thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 06, 2005
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: A-65 exhaust studs
report
Oscar,
See page 8 of the attached document. I believe it has what you are
looking for.
It is a recent document from Continental, and has all tourqe specs
for a LOT of
Continental engines. I can't remember where I found this now.
If I'm reading this right, exhuast manifold nut torque should be:
200-210 in/lbs for a .31-24 fastener, or
100-110 in/lbs for a .25-28 fasterner
I'm guessing a .25-28 is 1/4", 28 threads per inch, and .31-24 must be
5/16", 24
threads per inch?
Steve Ruse
N6383J - KFTW
Quoting Oscar Zuniga :
>
> Howdy again, Pieters;
>
> Hate to be a pest here, but this is the best place for me to find the
> answers I need. Anybody know what the recommended torque is for the nuts
> holding the exhaust stacks to the studs on the Cont. A-65?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 06, 2005
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Cont. A-65 runup
report
I use 1,700 RPM, and probably lose 75 RPM on a single mag, and more near 100
with carb heat on my A-75.
What static RPM do you guys usually see, and with what prop? I get about
2,400rpm static, and only 2,450-2,500 flat out (full throttle level flight).
Steve Ruse
N6383J - KFTW
Quoting "Phillips, Jack" :
>
>
> I use 1600. Get about a 100 RPM drop on each mag, about 75 RPM with
> carb heat
>
> Jack Phillips, PE
> Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
> Clinical Technologies and Services
> Cardinal Health
> Creedmoor, NC
> (919) 528-5212
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
> Zuniga
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:05 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cont. A-65 runup
>
>
>
> Howdy, Pieters;
>
> Just wondering what RPM all y'all A-65 drivers use for doing your engine
>
> runup/carb heat check/mag check. 1500 RPM? 1700?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 06, 2005
From: Harvey Rule <harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol on film
Watch the movie Dr.Strangelove and when they show the B52 flying it's
shadow is that of a B17,go figure eh!
Now that's humour!
>
>
>Was at the video store on the weekend looking for something to watch, and
>found a DVD with an illustration on the cover that looked like a Pietenpol
>in flight. So I rented it. As a film it wasn't great. Even the flying scenes
>were kind of hokey (digitally animated). The main character is an aviator
>who crashes in some unidentified southern land where (conveniently) everyone
>speaks English. He is flying what appears to be a Stampe biplane. When they
>rebuild the plane from the salvaged parts, suddenly the Stampe parts become
>a Pietenpol. The whole plane is covered with sewing fabric, so it looks
>pretty goofy, but it's definitely a Piet. Oh, they also mount a huge round
>copper fuel tank on top of the wing. There's only five or ten minutes of
>Pietenpol in the whole film. The name of the film is "Facing Fear" in
>Canadian release, but it's named "The Flight" in the U.S.
>Here's a link to the trailer...
>http://www.videodetective.com/trailer-preview.asp?publishedID=738563 .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol on film
Date: Jul 06, 2005
The same thing in the movie "Airplane"; scenes of the 707 in flight are
accompanied by the sound of a four engine prop plane.
>
> Watch the movie Dr.Strangelove and when they show the B52 flying it's
> shadow is that of a B17,go figure eh!
> Now that's humour!
>
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
;
Date: Jul 06, 2005
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: cable and pin eye
Is really a problem to insert thimbles in a pin eye (AN165 turnbuckle pin eye)
instead of a cable eye? thanks to all
Santiago Morete
Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam gratis!
Abr tu cuenta ya! - http://correo.yahoo.com.ar
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 06, 2005
From: Javier Cruz <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: covering
<42CC428A.1060902(at)sympatico.ca> <000b01c58270$8a8817d0$6401a8c0@the48194bd3804>
Hi List
The Piet is almost ready to cover, so i need some help here..
On the fuselage bottom how did you install the fabric, just over the
playwood and after install all hardware (nuts,etc), or did you glue some
stringers ( like the large piece on the sides) for cover the nuts ...
On the sides , the plans show some little pieces of 1/4 x 1/8 for this, just
one comment here.. did you install first all the metalic stuff , or did you
cover first and install after...
Thanks in advance
Javier Cruz
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 06, 2005
From: Javier Cruz <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: covering
<42CC428A.1060902(at)sympatico.ca> <000b01c58270$8a8817d0$6401a8c0@the48194bd3804>
Hi List
The Piet is almost ready to cover, so i need some help here..
On the fuselage bottom how did you install the fabric, just over the
playwood and after install all hardware (nuts,etc), or did you glue some
stringers ( like the large piece on the sides) for cover the nuts ...
On the sides , the plans show some little pieces of 1/4 x 1/8 for this, just
one comment here.. did you install first all the metalic stuff , or did you
cover first and install after...
Thanks in advance
Javier Cruz
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
<000b01c58270$8a8817d0$6401a8c0@the48194bd3804> <009101c58285$6e52ab60$230110ac@gateway.2wire.net>
Subject: Re: covering
Date: Jul 06, 2005
All hardware was installed first. Then a
stringer is glued down the center
of the belly from the firewall to the tail.
The stringer tapers from 1" at the firewall
to 1/4" at the tail.
The stringer will keep the fabric clear of
the hardware.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Javier Cruz" <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: covering
> Javier Cruz
>
> Hi List
> The Piet is almost ready to cover, so i
> need some help here..
> On the fuselage bottom how did you install
> the fabric, just over the
> playwood and after install all hardware
> (nuts,etc), or did you glue some
> stringers ( like the large piece on the
> sides) for cover the nuts ...
> On the sides , the plans show some little
> pieces of 1/4 x 1/8 for this, just
> one comment here.. did you install first
> all the metalic stuff , or did you
> cover first and install after...
> Thanks in advance
> Javier Cruz
>
>
> Forum -
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>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 06, 2005
Subject: Re: Cont. A-65 runup
In a message dated 7/6/2005 9:07:26 AM Central Standard Time,
taildrags(at)hotmail.com writes:
Just wondering what RPM all y'all A-65 drivers use for doing your engine
runup/carb heat check/mag check. 1500 RPM? 1700?
I use 1500 RPM indicated for the mag drop test. Any more than that, and I
have to apply considerably more pressure on the brake pedals. I checked my
mechanical tach in the panel, to an electronic tach, and it reads 100 RPM too low
at 2000 RPM. I get about 50 RPM drop for each mag, and about 50 for the carb
heat, too. I have new Slick Mags...well they were new when I assembled the
engine, about 200 hours ago. No problems with the Slicks, so they were worth
the $1000 investment.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 06, 2005
Subject: Re: A-65 exhaust studs
In a message dated 7/6/2005 10:50:07 AM Central Standard Time,
taildrags(at)hotmail.com writes:
Hate to be a pest here, but this is the best place for me to find the
answers I need. Anybody know what the recommended torque is for the nuts
holding the exhaust stacks to the studs on the Cont. A-65?
I just removed my exhaust pipes for sandblast & paint. The Continental
Overhaul Manual calls out Torque Limits on 5/16 - 24 nuts & screws to be 180 -
220
in. lbs., which works out to 15 to 18.3 ft. lbs. I've never found anything=20to
last on exhaust pipes. This time I'm using VHT Flame Proof Coating (SP-101)
Flat White, and supposed to be good to 1500=BA for painting exhaust pipes &
headers. I bought it at the local Hot Rod Shop. It specs sand blasting, and
baking in the oven at 600=BA to 650=BA. I suggest the use of the tall brass exhaust
nuts for this install. It was no problem to break them loose with 1/4" drive
tools, and came off with my finger. I used the thin metal gaskets, with the
bead around the big hole. A couple of small areas I noted black carbon traces,
like they were leaking, but saw no evidence of leaks up against the head.
There wouldn't be enough back pressure, with the short 2 into 1 pipes, for it to
leak very much. Another thing I always do, when dealing with exhaust, is to
plane the top of the flanges (gasket surfaces), with a long fine bastard file.
You need a long enough file to reach both flanges at the same time. It shows
the high and low spots where I dress independently, then finish again with
strokes across both flanges, to be sure they are on the same plane, and no
stresses are induced when the nuts are torqued. When I assembled them 2 years
ago,
I coated both sides of the exhaust gaskets with 'Copper Coat', but when I took
it apart yesterday, I found no evidence of the copper coat.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 06, 2005
Subject: Re: Cont. A-65 runup
In a message dated 7/6/2005 1:52:53 PM Central Standard Time,
steve(at)wotelectronics.com writes:
What static RPM do you guys usually see, and with what prop? I get about
2,400rpm static, and only 2,450-2,500 flat out (full throttle level flight).
I have a Cont A 65, with my home built 72 X 42 prop, and I get about 1900
RPM, full power static run up (in the chalks), or on take off roll. At full
power level flight, when the prop unloads, I see 2150 RPM indicated. Like I said
on a previous post, my tach reads 100 RPM too low, so those numbers are
actually 2000 and 2250 respectively. The ASI indicates about 72 to 75 MPH, but
it
also reads about 10 MPH too low, so I'm doing somewhere close to 85 MPH, on a
full power level flight run. I pull power for cruise flight between 1800 and
1900 RPM, and indicate about 65 MPH. I think fairing the gear legs helped a
little. The A65's rated power is 2300 RPM, so I consider mine to be a cruise
prop. I think I'm well with acceptable range.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 07, 2005
Subject: Re: cable and pin eye
In a message dated 7/6/2005 4:31:44 PM Central Standard Time,
moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar writes:
Is really a problem to insert thimbles in a pin eye (AN165 turnbuckle pin
eye) instead of a cable eye? thanks to all
Santiago,
The thimbles are not designed to be used with the pin eye. They should only
be used with the cable eye, which is champhered around the hole, to allow the
radius of the thimble.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 07, 2005
Subject: Re: covering
In a message dated 7/6/2005 6:53:35 PM Central Standard Time,
javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx writes:
On the fuselage bottom how did you install the fabric, just over the
playwood and after install all hardware (nuts,etc), or did you glue some
stringers ( like the large piece on the sides) for cover the nuts ...
On the sides , the plans show some little pieces of 1/4 x 1/8 for this, just
one comment here.. did you install first all the metalic stuff , or did you
cover first and install after...
Javier,
I didn't cover the plywood bottom of my plane. Just overlapped the corners
and the aft edge, about 2". My hardware is exposed on the bottom for
maintenance. I installed the hardware, like the lift strut / landing gear fittings
and
the fittings on the empenage, then covered them with the fabric. I used 2.7
oz fabric on the fuselage and wing, and used 1.8 oz fabric for the ailerons
and empenage.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cont. A-65 runup
Date: Jul 07, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Chuck if you are getting 85 mph in cruise we're going to have a hard
time flying formation between Brodhead and Oshkosh. My cruise is about
65 to 70 mph, verified with another airplane's ASI. I'll try to verify
with GPS this weekend, if Cindy and Dennis allow it.
Jack Phillips
Puttin' the time in on NX899JP so I can fly it to Brodhead in 2 weeks
I have a Cont A 65, with my home built 72 X 42 prop, and I get about
1900 RPM, full power static run up (in the chalks), or on take off
roll. At full power level flight, when the prop unloads, I see 2150 RPM
indicated. Like I said on a previous post, my tach reads 100 RPM too
low, so those numbers are actually 2000 and 2250 respectively. The ASI
indicates about 72 to 75 MPH, but it also reads about 10 MPH too low, so
I'm doing somewhere close to 85 MPH, on a full power level flight run. I
pull power for cruise flight between 1800 and 1900 RPM, and indicate
about 65 MPH.. I think fairing the gear legs helped a little. The
A65's rated power is 2300 RPM, so I consider mine to be a cruise prop.
I think I'm well with acceptable range.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Spruce wanted
Date: Jul 07, 2005
From: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Morning all,
Looking for a partial or un-started Piet project. I just sold my RV8
project and now that I have the room it's time to get going on the Piet.
I've completed 10 ribs and plan to buy the spruce at McCormick's when I
go to Brodhead and OSH if I don't find a project to buy before then.
Looking forward to seeing you all at Brodhead. Thanks!
Jack Textor
Des Moines
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 07, 2005
From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Spruce wanted
resource.com>
It's a long ride but I have a Western Aircraft Supply spruce kit sitting in
my hangar at 01G. That is Perry-Warsaw airport just outside of Warsaw,
NY. $1100 as is where is. I built a few ribs and just don't have the time.
Dave
At 09:12 AM 7/7/2005, you wrote:
>Morning all,
>Looking for a partial or un-started Piet project. I just sold my RV8
>project and now that I have the room it's time to get going on the
>Piet. I've completed 10 ribs and plan to buy the spruce at McCormick's
>when I go to Brodhead and OSH if I don't find a project to buy before
>then. Looking forward to seeing you all at Brodhead. Thanks!
>Jack Textor
>Des Moines
>
>
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: A-65 exhaust studs
Date: Jul 07, 2005
Thanks to all who offered tips on the exhaust stacks. I was looking at the
different gaskets at the Sacramento Sky Ranch website and noted that there
are two different types, but Corky had the "blow proof" ones on it
originally so that's what I'm going with (not the plain flat ones). I have
new brass nuts to go on the studs and wanted to get the torque correct. I
will also be applying VHT flat white to the stacks but NOT on the part that
is inside the heat muff... my concern is to avoid adding any insulation that
may reduce the heat transfer for carb heat. I realize that leaves the part
inside the muff vulnerable to corrosion and will require inspection during
annual, but after the carb ice incident I'd rather have all the temperature
rise I can get and deal with the corrosion issue as one more inspection
item.
One other item of interest noted from the torque charts from Continental.
They specify the use of clean 50w. aviation oil on all threads prior to
torqueing and caution that their table values are not for dry torqueing.
They also have some footnotes regarding lube for the spark plugs and a few
other things that are good to know. My thanks to Steve Ruse!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: rudder trim
Date: Jul 07, 2005
Aren't you dismayed when you see simple and great hints and ideas, and
wonder "why didn't I think of that?" Well, I take no credit for this one
but it's stone-simple and I plan to implement it as soon as I get 41CC
sorted out. Some of you have reported needing to hold right rudder at times
and wishing you had rudder trim. From the KRNet, the following was posted
by Mark Langford:
>Troy Petteway does his trim with a cable and a spring connected to the
>rudder pedal.
>That works great with an 0-200, because it pulls on the left pedal so the
>control can be
>fastened to the fuselage wall, but for VWs and Corvairs it would have to
>be the
>right pedal, so it needs to be panel mounted. [because KRs have
>side-by-side seating... not
a factor in a Piet where the fuselage wall is available on either side.
-OZ]
>He drilled a hole in his panel with a little slot at the bottom of the
>hole, and uses one of
>those little "ball chains" like you see on old ceramic light fixtures. He
>has certain balls marked
>for climb and cruise, and pulls the chain out to the right color and drops
>it in the slot to set it. That works too, is adjustable for different
>flight regimes, and leaves no [rudder trim] tab on
>the outside [of the airplane].
And for you "antique look" aficionados, you could even use brass beaded
chain ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Pietenpol Aircamper project.
Date: Jul 07, 2005
In response to Jack Textor:
I have bought two projects in the last couple of years. It's finally sunk into
my thick skull that at my age I cannot possibly finish both. That and storage
costs have me in a mood for a quick sale. The one that's available is fairly complete:
Wings, tail feathers, fuselage all covered and painted, split LG ready
for prime and color. If interested, I'll send details. As is, where is, under
$5k. Carl Vought, Huntsville Alabama.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol Aircamper project.
Date: Jul 07, 2005
Carl, Jack
If Jack's not interested I'd be interested n looking.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carl Vought
Sent: July 7, 2005 2:19 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Aircamper project.
In response to Jack Textor:
I have bought two projects in the last couple of years. It's finally sunk
into my thick skull that at my age I cannot possibly finish both. That and
storage costs have me in a mood for a quick sale. The one that's available
is fairly complete: Wings, tail feathers, fuselage all covered and painted,
split LG ready for prime and color. If interested, I'll send details. As
is, where is, under $5k. Carl Vought, Huntsville Alabama.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Aircamper project.
Date: Jul 07, 2005
To Robert Gow...I have a detailed description of the parts in the form of an attachment.
It's written in Wordpro and I think I have to save it in another format
for it to go through. I'll work on that and let you know. Where are you located?...Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Gow
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 3:34 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Aircamper project.
Carl, Jack
If Jack's not interested I'd be interested n looking.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carl Vought
Sent: July 7, 2005 2:19 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Aircamper project.
In response to Jack Textor:
I have bought two projects in the last couple of years. It's finally sunk into
my thick skull that at my age I cannot possibly finish both. That and storage
costs have me in a mood for a quick sale. The one that's available is fairly
complete: Wings, tail feathers, fuselage all covered and painted, split LG
ready for prime and color. If interested, I'll send details. As is, where is,
under $5k. Carl Vought, Huntsville Alabama.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol Aircamper project.
Date: Jul 07, 2005
I'm in Midland Ontario. There are some procedures to follow when importing
a homebuilt project into Canada but it's manageable. I've had the plans
since I was 15. No time :-) But I did find time to build a couple of
houses.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carl Vought
Sent: July 7, 2005 3:48 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Aircamper project.
To Robert Gow...I have a detailed description of the parts in the form of
an attachment. It's written in Wordpro and I think I have to save it in
another format for it to go through. I'll work on that and let you know.
Where are you located?...Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Gow
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 3:34 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Aircamper project.
Carl, Jack
If Jack's not interested I'd be interested n looking.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carl Vought
Sent: July 7, 2005 2:19 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Aircamper project.
In response to Jack Textor:
I have bought two projects in the last couple of years. It's finally
sunk into my thick skull that at my age I cannot possibly finish both. That
and storage costs have me in a mood for a quick sale. The one that's
available is fairly complete: Wings, tail feathers, fuselage all covered and
painted, split LG ready for prime and color. If interested, I'll send
details. As is, where is, under $5k. Carl Vought, Huntsville Alabama.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Hello!
Date: Jul 07, 2005
is anyone on this site in or around Denver?? I'm in town for a couple of days.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack<mailto:jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 8:16 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Hello!
As Walt Evans said, the best books for learning how to build an airplane
are the 4 Tony Bingelis books: The Sportplane Builder, Sportplane
Construction Techniques, Firewall Forward, and Tony Bingelis on Engines.
In addition, I learned a lot from the EAA Aircraft Welding book, and
their Aircraft Woodworking book.
If not an EAA member, by all means join. If there is a local chapter
that you can visit, even better, but you can get a lot of benefit from
belonging to the national organization. Go on their website,
www.eaa.org<http://www.eaa.org/> and click on the members only section, then go to
"homebuilder's headquarters". There you can find articles from past
issues of Sport Aviation that will answer most of your questions.
As someone else advised, buy the plans and study them before committing
to materials and tools. You can build a Pietenpol with simple hand
tools, but it will be easier if you have a good belt sander, a bandsaw,
a metal cutting bandsaw (that can be slowed down to 80 fpm on the blade
speed for cutting steel) and an oxy-acetylene welding rig.
There are a number of major decisions that need to be made when building
a Pietenpol, including:
Engine type (Ford "A", Corvair, Continental, or other?)
Short or Long fuselage
1-piece or 3-piece wing
Cub-style or straight axle landing gear
Sitka Spruce, Douglas Fir or other wood?
Resorcinol, T-88, Aerolite or other glues?
Tailwheel and brakes, or tailskid and no brakes?
This ain't no stinkin' kitplane where all these decisions are already
made for you and you just have to bolt the assembly together. This is
one of the beauties and the challenges of building a Pietenpol, and why
no two of them are alike.
Good luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
>
Gordon Bowen wrote:
> itself to the be best homebuilt for ease of building and ease of
adapting
> where needed.
"adapting"... That, I like...
Where is the best place to learn about the process of building outside
of the actual building process its self? Where can I find an easy to
understand, comprehensive list (perhaps?) of what I need to do to get
this thing off the ground, so to speak. I'm sure it cannot be as simple
as just gettin' 'er done and jumping in for a flight. For example, are
there progressive FAA inspections that need to be done and such?
I am a pilot, I am a craftsman, I have yet to combine the two and know
not where to start...
Have I made any sense in my questions or have I just confused you?
--
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 07, 2005
From: Javier Cruz <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: Re: covering
Thanks for your comments
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 08, 2005
Subject: Re: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
In a message dated 7/7/2005 6:16:48 AM Central Standard Time,
jphillip(at)alarismed.com writes:
Chuck if you are getting 85 mph in cruise we=E2=80=99re going to have a hard time
flying formation between Brodhead and Oshkosh. My cruise is about 65 to 70=20mph,
verified with another airplane=E2=80=99s ASI.
Jack,
I'm guestimating the 85 mph for my Full Power Level Flight run. My tach
reads low, and my ASI reads low. It will be interesting to compare our cruise
speeds. I think there is a radio frequency that we are allowed to use, for=20air
to air conservasion. For cruise, I pull power back to 1850 rpm, and that puts
me somewhere around 65 mph. Sometimes I like to put put put around, close to
minimum controlable airspeed. I can pull power back to 1650, and maintain
about 45 mph. Saves gas, and do some sight seeing !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: read this spark plug - slightly OT
Date: Jul 09, 2005
can anyone who has plug reading experience tell me anything about this plug.
It's from a 2 cycle engine running 30:1 oil mix on Naptha White Gas (Coleman
camping fuel)
www.azchoppercam.com/plug_large.jpg
thanks
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 09, 2005
Subject: Continental A65 Mixture Control & Absolute Ceiling
I'm installing a mixture control on my Stromberg NAS3A1 carb, in order to
fly up at some higher altitudes. I'm also installing EGT and CHT
instruments.
What MSL altitude can I begin leaning out the Mixture ?
What is the Absolute Ceiling of a Pietenpol ?
What's the highest any of you guys have ever been to ?
Any other suggestions about taking 'er up into the thinner air ?
Might I get too close to the sun ?
The book calls it the Altitude, or Mixture control, and says that when in
flight, the mixture control can be leaned out Only when a higher rpm can be
obtained. Otherwise, set it back to Full Rich.
This carb has what's called the 'Back Suction Type' mixture control.
There is a disk that has a graduation of progressively smaller holes as it is
leaned, which directs air from the float chamber to the venturi suction. I plan
on having a detent for the cable, that will stop the disk directly over the
opening.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 10, 2005
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Updates on my project
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
> Aren't you dismayed when you see simple and great hints and ideas, and
> wonder "why didn't I think of that?" Well, I take no credit for this
> one but it's stone-simple and I plan to implement it as soon as I get
> 41CC sorted out. Some of you have reported needing to hold right
> rudder at times and wishing you had rudder trim. From the KRNet, the
> following was posted by Mark Langford:
>
>> Troy Petteway does his trim with a cable and a spring connected to
>> the rudder pedal.
>> That works great with an 0-200, because it pulls on the left pedal so
>> the control can be
>> fastened to the fuselage wall, but for VWs and Corvairs it would
>> have to be the
>> right pedal, so it needs to be panel mounted. [because KRs have
>> side-by-side seating... not
>
> a factor in a Piet where the fuselage wall is available on either
> side. -OZ]
>
>> He drilled a hole in his panel with a little slot at the bottom of
>> the hole, and uses one of
>> those little "ball chains" like you see on old ceramic light
>> fixtures. He has certain balls marked
>> for climb and cruise, and pulls the chain out to the right color and
>> drops it in the slot to set it. That works too, is adjustable for
>> different flight regimes, and leaves no [rudder trim] tab on
>> the outside [of the airplane].
>
>
> And for you "antique look" aficionados, you could even use brass
> beaded chain ;o)
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> Hi all,
I've just updated my site on mykitplanes.com to reflect what I've been
doing the last few months. I have my Tech advisor coming out to see it
this afternoon.
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 10, 2005
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: anyone looking for a corvair motor?
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
> Aren't you dismayed when you see simple and great hints and ideas, and
> wonder "why didn't I think of that?" Well, I take no credit for this
> one but it's stone-simple and I plan to implement it as soon as I get
> 41CC sorted out. Some of you have reported needing to hold right
> rudder at times and wishing you had rudder trim. From the KRNet, the
> following was posted by Mark Langford:
>
>> Troy Petteway does his trim with a cable and a spring connected to
>> the rudder pedal.
>> That works great with an 0-200, because it pulls on the left pedal so
>> the control can be
>> fastened to the fuselage wall, but for VWs and Corvairs it would
>> have to be the
>> right pedal, so it needs to be panel mounted. [because KRs have
>> side-by-side seating... not
>
> a factor in a Piet where the fuselage wall is available on either
> side. -OZ]
>
>> He drilled a hole in his panel with a little slot at the bottom of
>> the hole, and uses one of
>> those little "ball chains" like you see on old ceramic light
>> fixtures. He has certain balls marked
>> for climb and cruise, and pulls the chain out to the right color and
>> drops it in the slot to set it. That works too, is adjustable for
>> different flight regimes, and leaves no [rudder trim] tab on
>> the outside [of the airplane].
>
>
> And for you "antique look" aficionados, you could even use brass
> beaded chain ;o)
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> I picked up a total of 4 Corvair motors and would like to sell one of
> them.. Its a YN I believe out of a 64, and it turns over well. I live
> in east central Florida, and you'd have to pick it up yourself. I
> have enough extra parts, that I'm sure we could come up with a
> complete rebuildable motor, but you'll need to be able to come here to
> pick it up.
Ben Charvet,
Mims, Fl (near the space center)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 10, 2005
From: <redbaron2010(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: anyone making piet ribs for sale?
Hi, I am new to the list. I just bought plans from Don Pietenpol. I have built
several homebuilts in the past (pober pixie and RV-6). Now ready to fly low
and slow again!
Is anyone on the list aware of someone who builds piet ribs for sale? I would
like to get a jump on my project and have had the pleasure of building my pober
pixie ribs.
Thanks and I am really impressed with the information on this list!!
regards,
Bob Soikkeli
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 10, 2005
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Update on my project (2nd attempt)
Hi all,
Sorry for the previous error in my message. Let me try again
l,
I've just updated my site on mykitplanes.com to reflect what I've been
doing the last few months. I have my Tech advisor coming out to see it
this afternoon.
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 10, 2005
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Corvair motor for sale, east central Florida
I picked up a total of 4 Corvair motors and would like to sell one of
them.. Its a YN I believe out of a 64, and it turns over well. I live
in east central Florida, and you'd have to pick it up yourself. I have
enough extra parts, that I'm sure we could come up with a complete
rebuildable motor, but you'll need to be able to come here to pick it up.
Ben Charvet,
Mims, Fl (near the space center)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 10, 2005
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Update on my project (2nd attempt)
here is the link:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=481&FName=Ben&LName=Charvet&PlaneName=Air%20Camper
Ben Charvet wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
> Sorry for the previous error in my message. Let me try again
> l,
>
> I've just updated my site on mykitplanes.com to reflect what I've been
> doing the last few months. I have my Tech advisor coming out to see
> it this afternoon.
>
> Ben Charvet
> Mims, Fl
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 10, 2005
From: "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu>
Subject: Re: anyone making piet ribs for sale?
Bob,
Welcome to the list. It's a fun and informative place to be. As for
ribs, usually Charles Ruebeck has a full set for sale at Brodhead for a
very reasonable price. If you can make it to Brodhead this year, it's a
wonderful opportunity to see several iterations of the Pietenpol and
talk to a bunch of builders. I highly recommend it. The Brodhead
shindig is July 22, 23 and 24, with lots of action Friday and Saturday
and nearly everbody departing before noon on the 24th.
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler."
-- Albert Einstein
>>> redbaron2010(at)adelphia.net 7/10/2005 11:32:55 AM >>>
Hi, I am new to the list. I just bought plans from Don Pietenpol. I
have built several homebuilts in the past (pober pixie and RV-6). Now
ready to fly low and slow again!
Is anyone on the list aware of someone who builds piet ribs for sale?
I would like to get a jump on my project and have had the pleasure of
building my pober pixie ribs.
Thanks and I am really impressed with the information on this list!!
regards,
Bob Soikkeli
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 10, 2005
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: anyone making piet ribs for sale?
Bob,
Welcome to the Pietenpol group. As John said, Charlie Ruebeck makes
ribs and his price is pretty reasonable considering how long it takes to
make ribs. He was at Sun-n-Fun this year and I got to meet him and
watch him work for a while. It took me 2 months to complete my set. I
used it as a test to see if I was in this for the long haul. He uses
western red cedar I believe for materials, he's made hundreds of them,
and his workmanship is of course great. I have a picture of him I'll
e-mail you separately.
Ben
________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 10, 2005
Subject: Re: anyone making piet ribs for sale?
does anyone have charlies phone number id like to call him
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Continentals are amazing
Date: Jul 10, 2005
Walt,
It will run fine for about 25 to 50 hours but by then the insides will be all torn
up with the ferrous oxides that come off into the oil which are pretty hard
at which point the cam bearing surfaces of the crankcase will be worn out, indicated
by no oil pressure at idle, trashing the crankcase...etc.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ; Fishnet
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 6:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continentals are amazing
A friend of mine had some medical problems and didn't fly his Cessna 120 for
three years. Just sat there getting dirtier and dirtier. Now he had to sell
it, so we washed it of the brown dust, and he wanted to taxi it to a hose to rinse
it.
The battery was dead, and wouldn't take a charge.
He got in and primed it, and on the 6th flip of the prop, it was running, even
on the old gas.
Man, that metal prop was sharp, had to put on gloves.
Ain't life grand!
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Continental A65 Mixture Control & Absolute Ceiling
Date: Jul 10, 2005
Chuck,
I had greg and Dale's ship up to 10,000 a few weeks ago. Their NAS3 carb does
not have the mixture control. I routinely take the Cessna 140 to 11 or 12 for
long cross countries and I lean it all the time and get the C-85 down to 4 gph
or so! I have been as high as 16,500 about 18 years ago with just an A-65 in
a Taylorcraft with the mixture equipped NAS3.
All this on car gas too.
Go for it.
I lean at any altitude and in a climb as well. The engine likes it.
I havce always been a proponent of the mixture control. However, you must understand
how it works.....Look in the archives for my previous comments.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 8:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A65 Mixture Control & Absolute Ceiling
I'm installing a mixture control on my Stromberg NAS3A1 carb, in order to
fly up at some higher altitudes. I'm also installing EGT and CHT instruments.
What MSL altitude can I begin leaning out the Mixture ?
What is the Absolute Ceiling of a Pietenpol ?
What's the highest any of you guys have ever been to ?
Any other suggestions about taking 'er up into the thinner air ?
Might I get too close to the sun ?
The book calls it the Altitude, or Mixture control, and says that when in
flight, the mixture control can be leaned out Only when a higher rpm can be obtained.
Otherwise, set it back to Full Rich.
This carb has what's called the 'Back Suction Type' mixture control. There
is a disk that has a graduation of progressively smaller holes as it is leaned,
which directs air from the float chamber to the venturi suction. I plan
on having a detent for the cable, that will stop the disk directly over the opening.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Continental A65 Mixture Control & Absolute Ceiling
Date: Jul 10, 2005
Chuck "Baby Oil" writes-
>I'm installing a mixture control on my Stromberg NAS3A1 carb
>I'm also installing EGT and CHT instruments.
>What MSL altitude can I begin leaning out the Mixture?
Just like in certified aircraft, there is little or no benefit or effect
below about 5000' MSL, but from there on up you can lean it just like any
other engine. Note that as the density altitude increases, you can begin to
benefit from mixture control at lower AGLs but care is required if the
temperatures are high. The engine will always run cooler with a richer
mixture.
With an EGT, the technique would be the same as in every Cessna or Piper
you've ever flown... lean to peak, then richen back a tad. Or, without EGT,
lean till the engine starts to run rough, then richen back to smooth it out.
IMPORTANT NOTE TO CORVAIR ENGINE FLYERS: due to the higher compression of
the Corvair, it is NOT recommended that you lean the engine without an EGT.
If you lean it till it runs rough, it's likely that you'll experience
detonation before you're able to richen it back up. The lower compression
ratios of the small Continentals allows the "lean till it runs rough"
technique without danger of detonation because the engine will be lean
mis-firing, not detonating. The Corvair can be damaged by detonation if you
lean it till it runs rough "by feel". Use an EGT or run it full rich
(thanks to William Wynne for this technical information on operating the
Corvair).
>What is the Absolute Ceiling of a Pietenpol?
>What's the highest any of you guys have ever been to?
Ask John Dilatush. He had his Turbo Subaru-powered Piet up as high as the
U-2 spy planes fly, but got so cold he couldn't take it so he started back
down... and passed Bruce Bohannon on the way down ;o) Seriously, I think
John has had his Piet up into the "oxygen required" levels.
Note that there is a very good modification to the NAS3A1 to make the
mixture control less touchy and gives it more apparent range. In a
nutshell, it involves lengthening the mixture actuator arm. If you don't
have the details on that, let me know off-list and I'll send you the .pdf
file.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Continental A65 Mixture Control & Absolute Ceiling
Date: Jul 10, 2005
Chuck,
I start leaning my 140 (0-200) at 1000'. I have an EGT and it looks like it
needs it.
I would suspect the absolute ceiling of a Piet is around 12000'. Several
years ago I climbed mine up to 7500' and gave up because I was in a T shirt
and the thermometer indicated 38 degrees. It was climbing strong at that
point. Maybe Steve E has flown the highest on his way from Utah in 99.
Ted
> From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A65 Mixture Control & Absolute
Ceiling
>
> I'm installing a mixture control on my Stromberg NAS3A1 carb, in order
to
> fly up at some higher altitudes. I'm also installing EGT and CHT
> instruments.
> What MSL altitude can I begin leaning out the Mixture ?
> What is the Absolute Ceiling of a Pietenpol ?
> What's the highest any of you guys have ever been to ?
> Any other suggestions about taking 'er up into the thinner air
?
> Might I get too close to the sun ?
>
> The book calls it the Altitude, or Mixture control, and says that when
in
> flight, the mixture control can be leaned out Only when a higher rpm can
be
> obtained. Otherwise, set it back to Full Rich.
> This carb has what's called the 'Back Suction Type' mixture control.
> There is a disk that has a graduation of progressively smaller holes as it
is
> leaned, which directs air from the float chamber to the venturi suction.
I plan
>
> on having a detent for the cable, that will stop the disk directly over
the
> opening.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 10, 2005
From: "Stephen!" <pietenpol(at)imagesdesavions.com>
Subject: Re: read this spark plug - slightly OT
<004e01c584cc$e8028040$0100a8c0@Desktop>
DJ Vegh wrote:
> can anyone who has plug reading experience tell me anything about this
> plug. It's from a 2 cycle engine running 30:1 oil mix on Naptha White
> Gas (Coleman camping fuel)
>
> www.azchoppercam.com/plug_large.jpg
Looks pretty clean to me, for a 2-cycle... A bit of carbon build up
around the outside but the important parts look to be in good
condition... How many hours on it?
--
IBA# 11465
http://imagesdesavions.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 11, 2005
From: flywrite(at)direcway.com
Subject: Format change
I now get individual messages; can you change me to digest form or tell me how
to do it?
Many thanks,
Dick Carden
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Butch Pennewell" <kmodairy(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Re: Continentals are amazing
Date: Jul 02, 2005
I had a friend who bought a Cessna 140 which had sat outside for a few years. He
fired it, up flew it home and gave it a good annual and few it for a number
of years and hundreds of hours. The only trouble he had was a valve stuck once,
was still running great, way past TBO when he sold it.
Butch
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continentals are amazing
Walt,
It will run fine for about 25 to 50 hours but by then the insides will be all
torn up with the ferrous oxides that come off into the oil which are pretty hard
at which point the cam bearing surfaces of the crankcase will be worn out,
indicated by no oil pressure at idle, trashing the crankcase...etc.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ; Fishnet
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 6:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continentals are amazing
A friend of mine had some medical problems and didn't fly his Cessna 120 for
three years. Just sat there getting dirtier and dirtier. Now he had to sell
it, so we washed it of the brown dust, and he wanted to taxi it to a hose to
rinse it.
The battery was dead, and wouldn't take a charge.
He got in and primed it, and on the 6th flip of the prop, it was running, even
on the old gas.
Man, that metal prop was sharp, had to put on gloves.
Ain't life grand!
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 11, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Landing gear setup
Am starting to plan my landing gear (split gear with the Cub style triangle
cabane at the top and springs instead of bungees) and after going through
the archives I think I have an idea how to design this but please give me a
sanity check. I am using the long fuselage plans.
1) Whether short of long fuselage, axle should be 2" forward of plans
location if adding brakes and tail wheel.
The short fuselage plans show the axle 17" behind the firewall, the long
fuselage plans have the firewall 2" further forward so the standard axle
location would be 19" back from the firewall. SO with brakes and tail wheel
the axle should be:
15" aft of firewall for short fuse
17" aft of firewall for long fuse
Correct?
Also since many people increase the front fuse length probably a better
measurement point would be the center of the front ash cross member. In that
case the axle position would be:
5" aft of the center of the front ash cross member for any fuselage.
2) When I get done with the gear the fuselage should sit on the ground with
about a 13 degree deck angle (measured on the top longeron), from the
archive info. So if I install the tailwheel and prop up the front of the
fuse to a 13 degree angle, place the wheel/tire that I am going to use on
the floor under the fuse at the correct 2" forward location THAT is the axle
position that I need to build my gear to correct? I can build a Bill
Rewey-style jig to hold the axles in that position.
Thanks
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 11, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Mock fuselage usage
Discovered another use for my Bingelis mock fuselage. Come landing gear
build time you just turn it upside down and you have the base for a jig that
matches the bottom of your real fuselage that you can tack weld your landing
gear parts to. You burn it a little while welding to it? No problem just
have a bucket of water nearby.
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 11, 2005
From: Mark <aerialphotos(at)dp.net>
Subject: Re: Continentals are amazing
<006c01c57f33$d074c3a0$24247042@dstream.net>
SpamAssassin (score=-2.563, required 3, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.04,
BAYES_00 -2.60)
Butch Pennewell wrote:
> I had a friend who bought a Cessna 140 which had sat outside for a few
> years. He fired it, up flew it home and gave it a good annual and few
> it for a number of years and hundreds of hours. The only trouble he
> had was a valve stuck once, was still running great, way past TBO
> when he sold it.
>
> Butch
Yep sometimes you get lucky but more often not. The corsion that can
form on the inside of the cyclinders can actually help hold compression
in, but when put in use more often than not it gives way. Running an
engine way past TBO is asking for trouble. A hundred hours or so is one
thing, but if there is a problem you could easily be penny wise and very
pound foolish. A problem with the internals can easily damage the cam
or crankshaft. Last time I checked a just the crankshaft was over 8
grand (not including the rest of the rebuild and finding one might not
be as easy as picking up a phone) and most overhall shops require the
crank to be serviceable before you even have an engine core. Risking
doubling the cost of an overhall for a few hundred hours isn't worth
it. Would you feel like you got your monies worth if you had an
overhall that only made it 500 hours? That is essentially what you are
doing by running it way over.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Keri-Ann Price" <keriannprice(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Supplemental Plan Packages for Pietenpol AirCamper
Date: Jul 11, 2005
Supplemental Plan Packages for Pietenpol AirCamper
http://www.geocities.com/keriannprice/Pietenpol_Plan_Packages.html
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Format change
Date: Jul 11, 2005
To subscribe to the digest format of this list, go to
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe and submit your request. When it goes
through, you'll then be subscribed to BOTH the real-time AND the digest
postings, so you'll need to unsubscribe from the real-time list. Note that
spot on the form as well. It's all there.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Landing gear setup
Date: Jul 11, 2005
Rick,
There are three fuselages. Which are you using?
the fuselage that appears in the Flying and Glider Manual. The drawings show a
wood gear.
the fuselage that is on the plans that DP sells. The drawings show the split steel
landing gear.
the fuselage that was used for the corvair piets. No gear is shown for this fuselage
but it is the one most build as it is 7 inches longer or so than the early
fuselages.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 8:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear setup
Am starting to plan my landing gear (split gear with the Cub style triangle cabane
at the top and springs instead of bungees) and after going through the archives
I think I have an idea how to design this but please give me a sanity
check. I am using the long fuselage plans.
1) Whether short of long fuselage, axle should be 2" forward of plans location
if adding brakes and tail wheel.
The short fuselage plans show the axle 17" behind the firewall, the long fuselage
plans have the firewall 2" further forward so the standard axle location
would be 19" back from the firewall. SO with brakes and tail wheel the axle should
be:
15" aft of firewall for short fuse
17" aft of firewall for long fuse
Correct?
Also since many people increase the front fuse length probably a better measurement
point would be the center of the front ash cross member. In that case the
axle position would be:
5" aft of the center of the front ash cross member for any fuselage.
2) When I get done with the gear the fuselage should sit on the ground with about
a 13 degree deck angle (measured on the top longeron), from the archive info.
So if I install the tailwheel and prop up the front of the fuse to a 13 degree
angle, place the wheel/tire that I am going to use on the floor under the
fuse at the correct 2" forward location THAT is the axle position that I need
to build my gear to correct? I can build a Bill Rewey-style jig to hold the
axles in that position.
Thanks
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: repairs to NX41CC
Date: Jul 11, 2005
I've put up a few photos of the Piet as it was finally sent home from the
metal shop to its next stop, the hangar at San Geronimo Airpark, for wood
and fabric repairs. The webpage is at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/repairs.html
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Robert Holten
Date: Jul 11, 2005
I spoke with Robert Holten from Texas a little while ago, a new subscriber to the
list today. Maybe all you TACO guys can go barbecue something. He has started
building a GN-1.
Robert, I tried sending the files to you on the wheels but the e-mail didn't go
thru. How about sending a post to the list here so I can get your address right.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
Date: Jul 11, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Chuck,
In running some tests with a GPS this weekend it appears my Piet is not
as slow as I thought. There was no wond aloft and I was consistently
getting groundspeeds of 66 to 68 knots, regardless of flight direction.
Maybe my cheap Chinese import Airspeed indicators are calibrated in
knots, even though the dial says MPH, 'cause they both indicate 65. So
in reality I'm getting an airspeed of 66 knots, or about 75 mph. That
is cruising at 2150 RPM indicated. A buddy has an electronic tach - I
need to borrow it and verify that my tach is accurate.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
In a message dated 7/7/2005 6:16:48 AM Central Standard Time,
jphillip(at)alarismed.com writes:
Chuck if you are getting 85 mph in cruise we're going to have a
hard time flying formation between Brodhead and Oshkosh. My cruise is
about 65 to 70 mph, verified with another airplane's ASI.
Jack,
I'm guestimating the 85 mph for my Full Power Level Flight run. My tach
reads low, and my ASI reads low. It will be interesting to compare our
cruise speeds. I think there is a radio frequency that we are allowed
to use, for air to air conservasion. For cruise, I pull power back to
1850 rpm, and that puts me somewhere around 65 mph. Sometimes I like to
put put put around, close to minimum controlable airspeed. I can pull
power back to 1650, and maintain about 45 mph. Saves gas, and do some
sight seeing !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
Date: Jul 11, 2005
Jack,
One way to check a tach is to run it up after dark. Most lights used to light a
parking lot or tarmac run at a multiple of 600, so the prop will appear to stop
at 600, 1200, and 1800 rpm etc.
Skip
A buddy has an electronic tach I need to borrow it and verify that my tach is
accurate.
Jack Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 11, 2005
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
report
Wow, that is a really smart idea, and it couldn't be any simpler.
Never ocurred
to me. Should be really accurate too.
One thing to be careful of though, some ballasts will change the frequency of
the power to the lamp (I know this is true for some fluorescents, and maybe
metal halide or high-pressure sodium lamps). Now it could be that the altered
frequency is still a multiple of 60hz though, so this wouldn't matter.
Using a
good 'ol incandescent lamp (from a 120VAC source) should be very accurate
though. A drop lamp secured to a cabane should work great.
Now you've got me wanting to try this. Something to do next time I'm at the
hangar at night...
Steve Ruse
N6383J - KFTW
Quoting Cinda Gadd :
> Jack,
> One way to check a tach is to run it up after dark. Most lights used
> to light a parking lot or tarmac run at a multiple of 600, so the
> prop will appear to stop at 600, 1200, and 1800 rpm etc.
> Skip
>
>
> A buddy has an electronic tach I need to borrow it and verify
> that my tach is accurate.
> Jack Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
"Corvair" ,
"Flitzer"
Subject: At least it will be quiet during the afternoon at Oshkosh
this year....
Date: Jul 11, 2005
Chapter 25,
I got a couple of phone calls from my friend Lesley, daughter of Tom Poberezney.
The first one was to inform me that her dad was involved in a motorcycle
accident this weekend. He is OK, but is beat up pretty good, and wont be in
to great of condition by the time Airventure rolls around.
The second phone call was to inform me that Jimmy Franklin, and Bobby Younkin
were killed tragically in a mid-air collision during an airshow in Canada.
Us die-hard airshow fans remember the duo from their Masters of Disaster airshow
during Airventure last year.
So maybe we can get something together (such as a card) for the Poberezney's
and that families of the airshow performers. Just a thought...
Ty Sibley
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
Date: Jul 11, 2005
Incandescents won't work. The filament glows when the power is off so you
don't get the flicker that makes the strobe effect you're looking for. It
has to be either a sodium (yellow) arc lamp, mercuric arc (white with bluish
tint) or a flourescent (with the frequency questions you raise).
----- Original Message [snipped]-----
> Now it could be that the altered
> frequency is still a multiple of 60hz though, so this wouldn't matter.
> Using a
> good 'ol incandescent lamp (from a 120VAC source) should be very accurate
> though. A drop lamp secured to a cabane should work great.
>
> Now you've got me wanting to try this. Something to do next time I'm at
the
> hangar at night...
>
> Steve Ruse
> N6383J - KFTW
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Continental A65 Mixture Control & Absolute Ceiling
Date: Jul 11, 2005
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
I was up to 10500 on a very hot day. My guess is I was about 15000
density altitude. I was only climbing due to the ridge lift up against
the mountains on the windward side....
Stevee
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted
Brousseau
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A65 Mixture Control & Absolute
Ceiling
Chuck,
I start leaning my 140 (0-200) at 1000'. I have an EGT and it looks
like it
needs it.
I would suspect the absolute ceiling of a Piet is around 12000'.
Several
years ago I climbed mine up to 7500' and gave up because I was in a T
shirt
and the thermometer indicated 38 degrees. It was climbing strong at
that
point. Maybe Steve E has flown the highest on his way from Utah in 99.
Ted
> From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A65 Mixture Control & Absolute
Ceiling
>
> I'm installing a mixture control on my Stromberg NAS3A1 carb, in
order
to
> fly up at some higher altitudes. I'm also installing EGT and CHT
> instruments.
> What MSL altitude can I begin leaning out the Mixture ?
> What is the Absolute Ceiling of a Pietenpol ?
> What's the highest any of you guys have ever been to ?
> Any other suggestions about taking 'er up into the thinner
air
?
> Might I get too close to the sun ?
>
> The book calls it the Altitude, or Mixture control, and says that
when
in
> flight, the mixture control can be leaned out Only when a higher rpm
can
be
> obtained. Otherwise, set it back to Full Rich.
> This carb has what's called the 'Back Suction Type' mixture
control.
> There is a disk that has a graduation of progressively smaller holes
as it
is
> leaned, which directs air from the float chamber to the venturi
suction.
I plan
>
> on having a detent for the cable, that will stop the disk directly
over
the
> opening.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
<004e01c584cc$e8028040$0100a8c0@Desktop> <42D20193.3000506(at)imagesdesavions.com>
Subject: Re: read this spark plug - slightly OT
Date: Jul 11, 2005
not sure of the hours. it's from a 26cc engine that powers an unmanned
helicopter that I use for aerial video/photography. I bought the helicopter
used and am trying to figure out how well it was treated.
www.azchoppercam.com is my latest business venture for those who care to
check it out.
DJ V.
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen!" <pietenpol(at)imagesdesavions.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: read this spark plug - slightly OT
>
>
>
> DJ Vegh wrote:
>
>> can anyone who has plug reading experience tell me anything about this
>> plug. It's from a 2 cycle engine running 30:1 oil mix on Naptha White Gas
>> (Coleman camping fuel)
>>
>> www.azchoppercam.com/plug_large.jpg
>
> Looks pretty clean to me, for a 2-cycle... A bit of carbon build up
> around the outside but the important parts look to be in good condition...
> How many hours on it?
>
>
> --
> IBA# 11465
> http://imagesdesavions.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 11, 2005
Subject: Re: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
In a message dated 7/11/2005 1:23:37 PM Central Standard Time,
jphillip(at)alarismed.com writes:
Chuck,
In running some tests with a GPS this weekend it appears my Piet is not as
slow as I thought. There was no wond aloft and I was consistently getting
groundspeeds of 66 to 68 knots, regardless of flight direction. Maybe my cheap
Chinese import Airspeed indicators are calibrated in knots, even though the=20dial
says MPH, =E2=80=99cause they both indicate 65. So in reality I=E2=80=99m getting
an
airspeed of 66 knots, or about 75 mph. That is cruising at 2150 RPM indicated.
A
buddy has an electronic tach =E2=80=93 I need to borrow it and verify that my tach
is
accurate.
Yes, It should be interesting to compare performance, when we go to Brodhead.
Does anyone know the frequency set aside for air to air communication ?
Terry B. told me what it was, last summer, but I can't find it.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
Date: Jul 11, 2005
123.45
It used to be 122.75
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)AOL.COM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
In a message dated 7/11/2005 1:23:37 PM Central Standard Time, jphillip(at)alarismed.com
writes:
Chuck,
In running some tests with a GPS this weekend it appears my Piet is not as
slow as I thought. There was no wond aloft and I was consistently getting groundspeeds
of 66 to 68 knots, regardless of flight direction. Maybe my cheap Chinese
import Airspeed indicators are calibrated in knots, even though the dial
says MPH, =E2=80=99cause they both indicate 65. So in reality I=E2=80=99m getting
an airspeed of 66 knots, or about 75 mph. That is cruising at 2150 RPM
indicated. A buddy has an electronic tach =E2=80=93 I need to borrow it and
verify that my tach is accurate.
Yes, It should be interesting to compare performance, when we go to Brodhead.
Does anyone know the frequency set aside for air to air communication ? Terry
B. told me what it was, last summer, but I can't find it.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 11, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
<20050711163807.m5mhqsr4cb7wo8wg(at)www.wotelectronics.com>
<001d01c58663$bc5fdad0$6401a8c0@the48194bd3804>
I dissaggree, back in the Submarine service of the 60's we didn't have
incandesent lighting cause the rotating machinery would seem to stop,
and people might grab it. Don't think you see freq with a flourescent.
Please, if someone trys this,,, let us know.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
>
> Incandescents won't work. The filament glows when the power is off so you
> don't get the flicker that makes the strobe effect you're looking for. It
> has to be either a sodium (yellow) arc lamp, mercuric arc (white with
bluish
> tint) or a flourescent (with the frequency questions you raise).
>
>
> ----- Original Message [snipped]-----
>
> > Now it could be that the altered
> > frequency is still a multiple of 60hz though, so this wouldn't matter.
> > Using a
> > good 'ol incandescent lamp (from a 120VAC source) should be very
accurate
> > though. A drop lamp secured to a cabane should work great.
> >
> > Now you've got me wanting to try this. Something to do next time I'm at
> the
> > hangar at night...
> >
> > Steve Ruse
> > N6383J - KFTW
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
Date: Jul 12, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
According my 2003 AIM, the frequencies for air - to - air communication
are 122.75 and 122.85. Don't know if they have changed since 2003
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Just about ready for the trip to Brodhead
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
In a message dated 7/11/2005 1:23:37 PM Central Standard Time,
jphillip(at)alarismed.com writes:
Chuck,
In running some tests with a GPS this weekend it appears my Piet
is not as slow as I thought. There was no wond aloft and I was
consistently getting groundspeeds of 66 to 68 knots, regardless of
flight direction. Maybe my cheap Chinese import Airspeed indicators are
calibrated in knots, even though the dial says MPH, 'cause they both
indicate 65. So in reality I'm getting an airspeed of 66 knots, or
about 75 mph. That is cruising at 2150 RPM indicated. A buddy has an
electronic tach - I need to borrow it and verify that my tach is
accurate.
Yes, It should be interesting to compare performance, when we go to
Brodhead.
Does anyone know the frequency set aside for air to air communication ?
Terry B. told me what it was, last summer, but I can't find it.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Landing gear setup
I am using the long fuselage plans.
On 7/11/05, Christian Bobka wrote:
>
> *Rick,*
> **
> *There are three fuselages. Which are you using?*
> **
> *the fuselage that appears in the Flying and Glider Manual. The drawings
> show a wood gear.*
> **
> *the fuselage that is on the plans that DP sells. The drawings show the
> split steel landing gear.*
> **
> *the fuselage that was used for the corvair piets. No gear is shown for
> this fuselage but it is the one most build as it is 7 inches longer or so
> than the early fuselages.*
> **
> *Chris*
> Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Rick Holland
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, July 11, 2005 8:48 AM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Landing gear setup
>
> Am starting to plan my landing gear (split gear with the Cub style
> triangle cabane at the top and springs instead of bungees) and after going
> through the archives I think I have an idea how to design this but please
> give me a sanity check. I am using the long fuselage plans.
>
> 1) Whether short of long fuselage, axle should be 2" forward of plans
> location if adding brakes and tail wheel.
>
> The short fuselage plans show the axle 17" behind the firewall, the long
> fuselage plans have the firewall 2" further forward so the standard axle
> location would be 19" back from the firewall. SO with brakes and tail wheel
> the axle should be:
>
> 15" aft of firewall for short fuse
> 17" aft of firewall for long fuse
>
> Correct?
>
> Also since many people increase the front fuse length probably a better
> measurement point would be the center of the front ash cross member. In that
> case the axle position would be:
>
> 5" aft of the center of the front ash cross member for any fuselage.
>
> 2) When I get done with the gear the fuselage should sit on the ground
> with about a 13 degree deck angle (measured on the top longeron), from the
> archive info. So if I install the tailwheel and prop up the front of the
> fuse to a 13 degree angle, place the wheel/tire that I am going to use on
> the floor under the fuse at the correct 2" forward location THAT is the axle
> position that I need to build my gear to correct? I can build a Bill
> Rewey-style jig to hold the axles in that position.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 2005
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Advertising on the Pietenpol List...
>From: "Keri-Ann Price" <keriannprice(at)hotmail.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Supplemental Plan Packages for Pietenpol
>AirCamper
>
>Supplemental Plan Packages for Pietenpol AirCamper
>http://www.geocities.com/keriannprice/Pietenpol_Plan_Packages.html
><http://www.geocities.com/keriannprice/Pietenpol_Plan_Packages.html>
Hi Keri-Ann,
A number of people have emailed me regarding your recent advertising
posts on the Pietenpol-List. Here is my official policy regarding
commercial advertising on the Lists:
"Occasional commercial advertising on the List is permissible as long as
the items are related to aircraft construction at some level."
I think that as long as the advertising doesn't start to feel like Spam, most
Listers will welcome the information. However, when the posts start
to just feel like generic advertising ploys, I will generally have to
step in. I realize that you probably made your message terse on
purpose to minimize the impact, which is certainly
appreciated. Again, though, it seems like an impersonal
advertisement and lots of people take exception to that.
Please make your *occasional* plugs more of a personal appeal to the
Listers and everything should be great.
Thanks!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Landing gear setup
Date: Jul 12, 2005
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 7:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear setup
Am starting to plan my landing gear (split gear with the Cub style triangle cabane
at the top and springs instead of bungees) and after going through the archives
I think I have an idea how to design this but please give me a sanity
check. I am using the long fuselage plans.
1) Whether short of long fuselage, axle should be 2" forward of plans location
if adding brakes and tail wheel.
The short fuselage plans show the axle 17" behind the firewall, the long fuselage
plans have the firewall 2" further forward so the standard axle location
would be 19" back from the firewall. SO with brakes and tail wheel the axle should
be:
15" aft of firewall for short fuse
17" aft of firewall for long fuse
Correct?
Also since many people increase the front fuse length probably a better measurement
point would be the center of the front ash cross member. In that case the
axle position would be:
5" aft of the center of the front ash cross member for any fuselage.
2) When I get done with the gear the fuselage should sit on the ground with about
a 13 degree deck angle (measured on the top longeron), from the archive info.
So if I install the tailwheel and prop up the front of the fuse to a 13 degree
angle, place the wheel/tire that I am going to use on the floor under the
fuse at the correct 2" forward location THAT is the axle position that I need
to build my gear to correct? I can build a Bill Rewey-style jig to hold the
axles in that position.
Thanks
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
Date: Jul 12, 2005
My little optical prop speed sensor calibrates nicely ---on incandescent
lighting.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of walt
evans
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
I dissaggree, back in the Submarine service of the 60's we didn't have
incandesent lighting cause the rotating machinery would seem to stop,
and people might grab it. Don't think you see freq with a flourescent.
Please, if someone trys this,,, let us know.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
>
> Incandescents won't work. The filament glows when the power is off so you
> don't get the flicker that makes the strobe effect you're looking for. It
> has to be either a sodium (yellow) arc lamp, mercuric arc (white with
bluish
> tint) or a flourescent (with the frequency questions you raise).
>
>
> ----- Original Message [snipped]-----
>
> > Now it could be that the altered
> > frequency is still a multiple of 60hz though, so this wouldn't matter.
> > Using a
> > good 'ol incandescent lamp (from a 120VAC source) should be very
accurate
> > though. A drop lamp secured to a cabane should work great.
> >
> > Now you've got me wanting to try this. Something to do next time I'm at
> the
> > hangar at night...
> >
> > Steve Ruse
> > N6383J - KFTW
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Landing gear setup
Date: Jul 12, 2005
Rick, Do you mean the longEST fuselage plans?
If you are using the fuselage that is the one that is the longEST at 7" over the
shortEST, then look at my post a few years back on how we decided where the
axle should be on Greg and Dale's Piet. The placement is perfect as the taxiing
with a skid on grass is absolutely superb.
As a good rule of thumb, go out to the field and hold up the tails on a bunch of
taildraggers like a Cub or a Taylorcraft. Hold it up until the longerons are
level (as if you were weighing it). The weight on the tail wheel is about what
you should have if you have the axle placed correctly, brakes or no brakes.
It should almost balance.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear setup
I am using the long fuselage plans.
On 7/11/05, Christian Bobka wrote:
Rick,
There are three fuselages. Which are you using?
the fuselage that appears in the Flying and Glider Manual. The drawings show
a wood gear.
the fuselage that is on the plans that DP sells. The drawings show the split
steel landing gear.
the fuselage that was used for the corvair piets. No gear is shown for this
fuselage but it is the one most build as it is 7 inches longer or so than the
early fuselages.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 8:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear setup
Am starting to plan my landing gear (split gear with the Cub style triangle
cabane at the top and springs instead of bungees) and after going through the
archives I think I have an idea how to design this but please give me a sanity
check. I am using the long fuselage plans.
1) Whether short of long fuselage, axle should be 2" forward of plans location
if adding brakes and tail wheel.
The short fuselage plans show the axle 17" behind the firewall, the long
fuselage plans have the firewall 2" further forward so the standard axle location
would be 19" back from the firewall. SO with brakes and tail wheel the axle
should be:
15" aft of firewall for short fuse
17" aft of firewall for long fuse
Correct?
Also since many people increase the front fuse length probably a better measurement
point would be the center of the front ash cross member. In that case
the axle position would be:
5" aft of the center of the front ash cross member for any fuselage.
2) When I get done with the gear the fuselage should sit on the ground with
about a 13 degree deck angle (measured on the top longeron), from the archive
info. So if I install the tailwheel and prop up the front of the fuse to a
13 degree angle, place the wheel/tire that I am going to use on the floor under
the fuse at the correct 2" forward location THAT is the axle position that I
need to build my gear to correct? I can build a Bill Rewey-style jig to hold
the axles in that position.
Thanks
--
Rick Holland
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Prange Larry J PSNS <prangel(at)psns.navy.mil>
Subject: Brodhead . . .
Date: Jul 12, 2005
FINALLY!!! I have been working on my Piet since 1997. (Yea I know, that's
sometime in the last century.) I have endured mountains of honey-dos and
life-events that have stretched my Piet project out to where it is now
gaining on the decade mark. And every year, I have watched this list with
envy as many of you have prepared for the annual pilgrimage to Brodhead. It
just hasn't been in the cards for me UNTIL NOW! YES! I get to go this
year! I have the tickets! After all of this time I will get to meet some
of you in the flesh and actually touch a flying Piet. I'll try to make
myself obvious by wearing my red/tan '75th Anniversary' Piet hat, that I
bought from Steve Eldredge, one of my Piet T shirts that I have collected
over the years and, of course, my camera to document the event.
So, if you see a middle-aged guy walking around with a silly, ear-to-ear
kid-grin, dressed like that, walk up to him and introduce yourself. It's
very likely to be me. Let's talk Piets!
See you on Saturday at Brodhead!
Larry Prange
NX1929A
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=144
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead . . .
Date: Jul 12, 2005
I will look for you Larry!
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Prange Larry J PSNS" <prangel(at)psns.navy.mil>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead . . .
>
> FINALLY!!! I have been working on my Piet since 1997. (Yea I know,
that's
> sometime in the last century.) I have endured mountains of honey-dos and
> life-events that have stretched my Piet project out to where it is now
> gaining on the decade mark. And every year, I have watched this list with
> envy as many of you have prepared for the annual pilgrimage to Brodhead.
It
> just hasn't been in the cards for me UNTIL NOW! YES! I get to go this
> year! I have the tickets! After all of this time I will get to meet some
> of you in the flesh and actually touch a flying Piet. I'll try to make
> myself obvious by wearing my red/tan '75th Anniversary' Piet hat, that I
> bought from Steve Eldredge, one of my Piet T shirts that I have collected
> over the years and, of course, my camera to document the event.
>
> So, if you see a middle-aged guy walking around with a silly, ear-to-ear
> kid-grin, dressed like that, walk up to him and introduce yourself. It's
> very likely to be me. Let's talk Piets!
>
> See you on Saturday at Brodhead!
>
> Larry Prange
> NX1929A
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=144
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Brodhead . . .
Date: Jul 12, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
Boy, a blast from the past. I haven't sen a post from you in quite some
time, Larry. I look forward to seeing you at Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Prange
Larry J PSNS
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead . . .
FINALLY!!! I have been working on my Piet since 1997. (Yea I know,
that's
sometime in the last century.) I have endured mountains of honey-dos
and
life-events that have stretched my Piet project out to where it is now
gaining on the decade mark. And every year, I have watched this list
with
envy as many of you have prepared for the annual pilgrimage to Brodhead.
It
just hasn't been in the cards for me UNTIL NOW! YES! I get to go this
year! I have the tickets! After all of this time I will get to meet
some
of you in the flesh and actually touch a flying Piet. I'll try to make
myself obvious by wearing my red/tan '75th Anniversary' Piet hat, that I
bought from Steve Eldredge, one of my Piet T shirts that I have
collected
over the years and, of course, my camera to document the event.
So, if you see a middle-aged guy walking around with a silly, ear-to-ear
kid-grin, dressed like that, walk up to him and introduce yourself.
It's
very likely to be me. Let's talk Piets!
See you on Saturday at Brodhead!
Larry Prange
NX1929A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead . . .
Date: Jul 12, 2005
Larry,
Your description will match about 100 others there. You might want to write
"LARRY" in magic marker on your forehead. Or just wander like all and be
friendly. It's not quite as big as OSH afterall.
See you there
I'll be the one with the Piet Tee shirt and camera.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Prange Larry J PSNS" <prangel(at)psns.navy.mil>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead . . .
>
>
> FINALLY!!! I have been working on my Piet since 1997. (Yea I know,
> that's
> sometime in the last century.) I have endured mountains of honey-dos and
> life-events that have stretched my Piet project out to where it is now
> gaining on the decade mark. And every year, I have watched this list with
> envy as many of you have prepared for the annual pilgrimage to Brodhead.
> It
> just hasn't been in the cards for me UNTIL NOW! YES! I get to go this
> year! I have the tickets! After all of this time I will get to meet some
> of you in the flesh and actually touch a flying Piet. I'll try to make
> myself obvious by wearing my red/tan '75th Anniversary' Piet hat, that I
> bought from Steve Eldredge, one of my Piet T shirts that I have collected
> over the years and, of course, my camera to document the event.
>
> So, if you see a middle-aged guy walking around with a silly, ear-to-ear
> kid-grin, dressed like that, walk up to him and introduce yourself. It's
> very likely to be me. Let's talk Piets!
>
> See you on Saturday at Brodhead!
>
> Larry Prange
> NX1929A
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=144
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 12, 2005
Subject: Re: Landing gear setup
Pieters.
These measurers caused me to go measure Repeit. Split axle, 16 inches aft of
firewall, 4 inches aft of forward LG fitting. Longeron angle at 3 point, 8
degrees. Long fuse w/ A-65
Hope it flys
The Kernal
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead . . .
Date: Jul 12, 2005
People: Please. If you go to Brodhead, wear a name tag!
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead . . .
>
> Larry,
> Your description will match about 100 others there. You might want to
write
> "LARRY" in magic marker on your forehead. Or just wander like all and be
> friendly. It's not quite as big as OSH afterall.
> See you there
> I'll be the one with the Piet Tee shirt and camera.
> Dick N.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Prange Larry J PSNS" <prangel(at)psns.navy.mil>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 3:52 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead . . .
>
>
> >
> >
> > FINALLY!!! I have been working on my Piet since 1997. (Yea I know,
> > that's
> > sometime in the last century.) I have endured mountains of honey-dos
and
> > life-events that have stretched my Piet project out to where it is now
> > gaining on the decade mark. And every year, I have watched this list
with
> > envy as many of you have prepared for the annual pilgrimage to Brodhead.
> > It
> > just hasn't been in the cards for me UNTIL NOW! YES! I get to go this
> > year! I have the tickets! After all of this time I will get to meet
some
> > of you in the flesh and actually touch a flying Piet. I'll try to make
> > myself obvious by wearing my red/tan '75th Anniversary' Piet hat, that I
> > bought from Steve Eldredge, one of my Piet T shirts that I have
collected
> > over the years and, of course, my camera to document the event.
> >
> > So, if you see a middle-aged guy walking around with a silly, ear-to-ear
> > kid-grin, dressed like that, walk up to him and introduce yourself.
It's
> > very likely to be me. Let's talk Piets!
> >
> > See you on Saturday at Brodhead!
> >
> > Larry Prange
> > NX1929A
> > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=144
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 12, 2005
Subject: EGT Location
Chris, et all,
I'm installing a combo CHT / EGT instrument in my panel, and it says it
should be located at least 12" from the whiskey compass, which is already located
top center. This location can NOT be accomplished, if I keep the new
instrument in the panel.
How much error can I expect in the whiskey compass, if the CHT / EGT
instrument is about 5" below the compass, and will I be able to 'Swing the Compass'
again, and adjust this new error out of the compass ?
I'm using the hose clamp style thermocouple, and it instructs to drill a
3/16" hole, 6" from the manifold of the leanest cylinder, as defined by the
engine manufacturer.
Is this the Right Hand, Aft cylinder ?
I inject Baby Oil into both aft pipes, about 2 1/2" from the flange, and if I
put the EGT thermocouple 6" from the flange, the smoke oil will no doubt,
effect the reading, and possibly cause carbon build up on the probe.
Should I install the EGT probe on one of the two front cylinders ?
I'm also using 4' extension leads for both the CHT and EGT, but the
instructions say this should not effect the accuracy of the instrument.
When I get this all worked out, with the mixture control and instruments,
I'll be able to fly cover, for Kernel Corky, dive in on those bogies, and NAIL
'EM with Toilet Paper !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: EGT Location
Date: Jul 12, 2005
Chuck,
In the BAE Jetstream, there was a placard that said, more or less, "Compass not
accurate when electrical systems are energized". This basically meant that the
compass was of no value as long as you had juice applied to the aircraft.
Hmmmm.
Who uses the compass anyway? And, if you need to use it, just shut off the motor
box for a second and see which way you need to go.
The thermocouples produce a voltage that changes with temperature. I would imagine
it difficult to adjust this error out of the compass as it varies in voltage.
I don;t know which cylinder is leanest. Look around on Cessna 150 sites in google
and maybe that will be discussed in a thread on the O-200.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 6:37 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: EGT Location
Chris, et all,
I'm installing a combo CHT / EGT instrument in my panel, and it says it should
be located at least 12" from the whiskey compass, which is already located top
center. This location can NOT be accomplished, if I keep the new instrument
in the panel.
How much error can I expect in the whiskey compass, if the CHT / EGT instrument
is about 5" below the compass, and will I be able to 'Swing the Compass' again,
and adjust this new error out of the compass ?
I'm using the hose clamp style thermocouple, and it instructs to drill a 3/16"
hole, 6" from the manifold of the leanest cylinder, as defined by the engine
manufacturer.
Is this the Right Hand, Aft cylinder ?
I inject Baby Oil into both aft pipes, about 2 1/2" from the flange, and if I
put the EGT thermocouple 6" from the flange, the smoke oil will no doubt, effect
the reading, and possibly cause carbon build up on the probe.
Should I install the EGT probe on one of the two front cylinders ?
I'm also using 4' extension leads for both the CHT and EGT, but the instructions
say this should not effect the accuracy of the instrument.
When I get this all worked out, with the mixture control and instruments, I'll
be able to fly cover, for Kernel Corky, dive in on those bogies, and NAIL 'EM
with Toilet Paper !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: More test time
Date: Jul 12, 2005
Three more hours went on Greg and Dale's ship today. That puts us almost at 1/2
way through the 40 hour fly off (homemade prop you know). Still hoping to do
the other 21 hours in the next 8 days.
We put in some more right thrust and now I am begining to think that the left rudder
is really all because of assymetric thrust due to ascending blade v descending
blade. This would mean that the better correct would be to remove some
of the right thrust and add more downthrust so that is what will be tried next.
It "almost" flies feet and hands off. We will get it perfect!
I did about 20 touch and goes today, getting the flaring height calibrated in my
brain. None of the landing were necessarily bad but some could have been a
little better. Forward and side slips were of no problem, even at the aft of
the aft limit CG position we are operating at right now.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: anydoy spin it?
Date: Jul 12, 2005
Anybody do any spins in the Piet? Should I do this during the test phase or not
bother?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: A-65 starting snafu
Date: Jul 11, 2005
Walt,
I know this is an old question but I just got around to catching up on my
list reading during the hurricane scare this weekend.
I had a hard time starting a hot engine during Young Eagle events or quick
fuel stops. Tried all the things that others have posted. Then I tried
turning off the fuel about 30 seconds before stopping the engine. Restarts
every time no matter how long between stop and restart. Try it and it might
work for you
Ted Brousseau
Naples, Florida
> From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: A-65 starting snafu
>
> Need some input on starting a warm A-65.
> This is the first time this season that I flew on a warm evening. Usually
I have
> my starting sequence that works pretty good, but today I flew and it sat
idle
> in the 80 deg weather. Went to pull it and nothing. Like it was
instantly
> flooded. Did have the throttle closed.
>
> I had progressed from the cold mornings where I gave it two primes, pulled
thru
> 6 tips with switch off. And it would start on first flip.
> Then to warmer AM's with one prime,,,,,
> Then now with no primes, just pull thru 4 tips with switch off and it
will go.
>
> But with it hot tonite,,,it just didn't fire.
>
> Any help??
>
> thanks
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
Date: Jul 12, 2005
A prop speed sensor would probably work well on candle power, if the candle
was bright enough.
The issue was about stroboscopic effect which makes moving objects appear as
a series of distinct images. If you move your hand rapidly back and forth
in front of your computer CRT...you see a series of distinct phantom images.
Move your hand rapidly back and forth under the glow of a yellow (sodium
arc) parking lot light at night...you see a series of distinct phantom
images. Move your hand rapidly back and forth under some flourescent lights
(probably with a bad ballast)...you get a series of images. Move your hand
rapidly back and forth under or in front of an incandescent,
glowing-filament, buy-at-the-supermarket, light bulb...you get a blurred
image, not a distinct series of images. The afterglow of an incandescent
filament fills in the gaps between the brightest parts, making the
stroboscopic effect go away.
When your prop rotates under a typical parking lot light, you see a series
of distinct images that appear in different places. When the rotational
speed is an exact multiple of the frequency of the stroboscopic light
flashes, the distinct images appear in the same place, making it look much
like your prop has stopped. Since the stroboscopic effect occurs at the
frequency of the AC power delivered to the parking lot light, the visual
stoppage occurs at or near multiples of 60 Hz (in the US).
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
>
> My little optical prop speed sensor calibrates nicely ---on incandescent
> lighting.
>
> Bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Walt
> Evans
> Sent: July 11, 2005 10:41 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
>
>
> I disagree, back in the Submarine service of the 60's we didn't have
> incandesent lighting cause the rotating machinery would seem to stop,
> and people might grab it. Don't think you see freq with a flourescent.
> Please, if someone tries this,,, let us know.
> Walt Evans
> NX140DL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 5:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cont. A-65 runup & flight
>
>
> >
> > Incandescents won't work. The filament glows when the power is off so
you
> > don't get the flicker that makes the strobe effect you're looking for.
It
> > has to be either a sodium (yellow) arc lamp, mercuric arc (white with
> bluish
> > tint) or a flourescent (with the frequency questions you raise).
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message [snipped]-----
> >
> > > Now it could be that the altered
> > > frequency is still a multiple of 60hz though, so this wouldn't matter.
> > > Using a
> > > good 'ol incandescent lamp (from a 120VAC source) should be very
> accurate
> > > though. A drop lamp secured to a cabane should work great.
> > >
> > > Now you've got me wanting to try this. Something to do next time I'm
at
> > the
> > > hangar at night...
> > >
> > > Steve Ruse
> > > N6383J - KFTW
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: anydoy spin it?
Date: Jul 13, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
I haven't spun mine yet - don't know if I'm going to.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Christian Bobka
Subject: Pietenpol-List: anydoy spin it?
Anybody do any spins in the Piet? Should I do this during the test
phase or not bother?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Brodhead . . .
Date: Jul 13, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip(at)alarismed.com>
BTW - I just looked at your photos Larry. Beautiful job! Looks like
another top quality Piet coming along. I love the engine turning on
your cowlings.
Jack Phillips
See you on Saturday at Brodhead!
Larry Prange
NX1929A
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=144
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 13, 2005
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Vacuum Bagging mini-seminar at Brodhead
Well, doing a powder coating demo at Brodhead has become a bit of a hassle. You
have to have an oven NOT used for food preparation and since my family is riding
along this year, I won't have room to bring mine. Sorry.
But I'm gettting ready to bag some laminated mahoghany/maple jury struts, approx
1" X 1/4" in size.
So if anyone would like to see that process, let me know. If at least one of you
would like to see how it's done and how I've built my setup (using a freon
pump out of a discarded refrigerator), I'll bring my stuff.
Let me know.
JM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Vacuum Bagging mini-seminar at Brodhead
Date: Jul 13, 2005
Jim,
I would like to see the demo on VB.
Too bad they won't let you use the oven in the kitchen there. That is the
one I had used when I did my demo. Brodheaders are still eating the food
that has come from that oven with no adverse effects.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vacuum Bagging mini-seminar at Brodhead
>
>
> Well, doing a powder coating demo at Brodhead has become a bit of a
hassle. You have to have an oven NOT used for food preparation and since my
family is riding along this year, I won't have room to bring mine. Sorry.
>
> But I'm gettting ready to bag some laminated mahoghany/maple jury struts,
approx 1" X 1/4" in size.
>
> So if anyone would like to see that process, let me know. If at least one
of you would like to see how it's done and how I've built my setup (using a
freon pump out of a discarded refrigerator), I'll bring my stuff.
>
> Let me know.
>
> JM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 13, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Landing gear setup
How many "long fuselage" Piet plans are there? I am using the "Supplementary
Plans" long fuselage plans from Don Pietenpol. They show no landing gear
position so I assume the gear is to be identical to the 1933 "short"
fuselage plans.
On 7/12/05, Christian Bobka wrote:
>
> *Rick, Do you mean the longEST fuselage plans?*
> **
> *If you are using the fuselage that is the one that is the longEST at 7"
> over the shortEST, then look at my post a few years back on how we decided
> where the axle should be on Greg and Dale's Piet. The placement is perfect
> as the taxiing with a skid on grass is absolutely superb.*
> **
> *As a good rule of thumb, go out to the field and hold up the tails on a
> bunch of taildraggers like a Cub or a Taylorcraft. Hold it up until the
> longerons are level (as if you were weighing it). The weight on the tail
> wheel is about what you should have if you have the axle placed correctly,
> brakes or no brakes. It should almost balance.*
> **
> *Chris*
> **
> **
> Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Rick Holland
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2005 9:01 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear setup
>
> I am using the long fuselage plans.
>
> On 7/11/05, Christian Bobka wrote:
> >
> > *Rick,*
> > **
> > *There are three fuselages. Which are you using?*
> > **
> > *the fuselage that appears in the Flying and Glider Manual. The drawings
> > show a wood gear.*
> > **
> > *the fuselage that is on the plans that DP sells. The drawings show the
> > split steel landing gear.*
> > **
> > *the fuselage that was used for the corvair piets. No gear is shown for
> > this fuselage but it is the one most build as it is 7 inches longer or so
> > than the early fuselages.*
> > **
> > *Chris*
> > Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Rick Holland
> > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > *Sent:* Monday, July 11, 2005 8:48 AM
> > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Landing gear setup
> >
> > Am starting to plan my landing gear (split gear with the Cub style
> > triangle cabane at the top and springs instead of bungees) and after going
> > through the archives I think I have an idea how to design this but please
> > give me a sanity check. I am using the long fuselage plans.
> >
> > 1) Whether short of long fuselage, axle should be 2" forward of plans
> > location if adding brakes and tail wheel.
> >
> > The short fuselage plans show the axle 17" behind the firewall, the long
> > fuselage plans have the firewall 2" further forward so the standard axle
> > location would be 19" back from the firewall. SO with brakes and tail wheel
> > the axle should be:
> >
> > 15" aft of firewall for short fuse
> > 17" aft of firewall for long fuse
> >
> > Correct?
> >
> > Also since many people increase the front fuse length probably a better
> > measurement point would be the center of the front ash cross member. In that
> > case the axle position would be:
> >
> > 5" aft of the center of the front ash cross member for any fuselage.
> >
> > 2) When I get done with the gear the fuselage should sit on the ground
> > with about a 13 degree deck angle (measured on the top longeron), from the
> > archive info. So if I install the tailwheel and prop up the front of the
> > fuse to a 13 degree angle, place the wheel/tire that I am going to use on
> > the floor under the fuse at the correct 2" forward location THAT is the axle
> > position that I need to build my gear to correct? I can build a Bill
> > Rewey-style jig to hold the axles in that position.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > --
> > Rick Holland
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Spins
Date: Jul 13, 2005
0.94 RCVD_ILLEGAL_IP Received: contains illegal IP address
Chris,
Yes, I spun my "Mountain Piet" both directions.
Stall and entry was sharp and clean, probably due to the relatively sharp leading
edge of the Pietenpol airfoil. The plane wound up very fast which surprised
me. I made a normal recovery after two turns.
The CG was at about 18" aft of the leading edge of the wing and gross at about
1000 lbs when I did this
I didn't check altitude loss on the altimeter, but would judge it to be at least
800 ft for two complete turns with a gentle recovery (max airspeed at about
95 mph) at only about 2.0 g's.
I don't think you need to put spins into your test program except to demonstrate
the abrupt entry characteristic of the plane.
In another matter, I noticed on the list some discussion about the ceiling of a
Piet. I would like to claim the record here if I may, 15,300 feet! Of course
I had a turbocharged Subaru engine. Is this cheating? The plane was still
climbing at this altitude, but I was so damn'd cold, I terminated the experiment.
Cordially,
John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
<004501c58723$1ee841f0$0301a8c0@north>
Subject: Re: Landing gear setup
Date: Jul 13, 2005
Negative rick. That is not the placement that you would be happy with. I will
dig through the archives and find my post on the subject. Give me til tonight.
If Greg Cardinal were not on vacation, he would have chimed in already with
the details as he is right on top of the numbers.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear setup
How many "long fuselage" Piet plans are there? I am using the "Supplementary
Plans" long fuselage plans from Don Pietenpol. They show no landing gear position
so I assume the gear is to be identical to the 1933 "short" fuselage plans.
On 7/12/05, Christian Bobka wrote:
Rick, Do you mean the longEST fuselage plans?
If you are using the fuselage that is the one that is the longEST at 7" over
the shortEST, then look at my post a few years back on how we decided where
the axle should be on Greg and Dale's Piet. The placement is perfect as the taxiing
with a skid on grass is absolutely superb.
As a good rule of thumb, go out to the field and hold up the tails on a bunch
of taildraggers like a Cub or a Taylorcraft. Hold it up until the longerons
are level (as if you were weighing it). The weight on the tail wheel is about
what you should have if you have the axle placed correctly, brakes or no brakes.
It should almost balance.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear setup
I am using the long fuselage plans.
On 7/11/05, Christian Bobka wrote:
Rick,
There are three fuselages. Which are you using?
the fuselage that appears in the Flying and Glider Manual. The drawings
show a wood gear.
the fuselage that is on the plans that DP sells. The drawings show the
split steel landing gear.
the fuselage that was used for the corvair piets. No gear is shown for
this fuselage but it is the one most build as it is 7 inches longer or so than
the early fuselages.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 8:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear setup
Am starting to plan my landing gear (split gear with the Cub style triangle
cabane at the top and springs instead of bungees) and after going through
the archives I think I have an idea how to design this but please give me a
sanity check. I am using the long fuselage plans.
1) Whether short of long fuselage, axle should be 2" forward of plans
location if adding brakes and tail wheel.
The short fuselage plans show the axle 17" behind the firewall, the long
fuselage plans have the firewall 2" further forward so the standard axle location
would be 19" back from the firewall. SO with brakes and tail wheel the
axle should be:
15" aft of firewall for short fuse
17" aft of firewall for long fuse
Correct?
Also since many people increase the front fuse length probably a better
measurement point would be the center of the front ash cross member. In that
case the axle position would be:
5" aft of the center of the front ash cross member for any fuselage.
2) When I get done with the gear the fuselage should sit on the ground
with about a 13 degree deck angle (measured on the top longeron), from the archive
info. So if I install the tailwheel and prop up the front of the fuse to
a 13 degree angle, place the wheel/tire that I am going to use on the floor
under the fuse at the correct 2" forward location THAT is the axle position that
I need to build my gear to correct? I can build a Bill Rewey-style jig to hold
the axles in that position.
Thanks
--
Rick Holland
--
Rick Holland
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
<004501c58723$1ee841f0$0301a8c0@north>
Subject: Re: Landing gear setup
Date: Jul 13, 2005
And Rick, what you are using is the longEST fuselage which is what Greg and Dale
used so we are now on the same page.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear setup
How many "long fuselage" Piet plans are there? I am using the "Supplementary
Plans" long fuselage plans from Don Pietenpol. They show no landing gear position
so I assume the gear is to be identical to the 1933 "short" fuselage plans.
On 7/12/05, Christian Bobka wrote:
Rick, Do you mean the longEST fuselage plans?
If you are using the fuselage that is the one that is the longEST at 7" over
the shortEST, then look at my post a few years back on how we decided where
the axle should be on Greg and Dale's Piet. The placement is perfect as the taxiing
with a skid on grass is absolutely superb.
As a good rule of thumb, go out to the field and hold up the tails on a bunch
of taildraggers like a Cub or a Taylorcraft. Hold it up until the longerons
are level (as if you were weighing it). The weight on the tail wheel is about
what you should have if you have the axle placed correctly, brakes or no brakes.
It should almost balance.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear setup
I am using the long fuselage plans.
On 7/11/05, Christian Bobka wrote:
Rick,
There are three fuselages. Which are you using?
the fuselage that appears in the Flying and Glider Manual. The drawings
show a wood gear.
the fuselage that is on the plans that DP sells. The drawings show the
split steel landing gear.
the fuselage that was used for the corvair piets. No gear is shown for
this fuselage but it is the one most build as it is 7 inches longer or so than
the early fuselages.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 8:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear setup
Am starting to plan my landing gear (split gear with the Cub style triangle
cabane at the top and springs instead of bungees) and after going through
the archives I think I have an idea how to design this but please give me a
sanity check. I am using the long fuselage plans.
1) Whether short of long fuselage, axle should be 2" forward of plans
location if adding brakes and tail wheel.
The short fuselage plans show the axle 17" behind the firewall, the long
fuselage plans have the firewall 2" further forward so the standard axle location
would be 19" back from the firewall. SO with brakes and tail wheel the
axle should be:
15" aft of firewall for short fuse
17" aft of firewall for long fuse
Correct?
Also since many people increase the front fuse length probably a better
measurement point would be the center of the front ash cross member. In that
case the axle position would be:
5" aft of the center of the front ash cross member for any fuselage.
2) When I get done with the gear the fuselage should sit on the ground
with about a 13 degree deck angle (measured on the top longeron), from the archive
info. So if I install the tailwheel and prop up the front of the fuse to
a 13 degree angle, place the wheel/tire that I am going to use on the floor
under the fuse at the correct 2" forward location THAT is the axle position that
I need to build my gear to correct? I can build a Bill Rewey-style jig to hold
the axles in that position.
Thanks
--
Rick Holland
--
Rick Holland
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 13, 2005
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Vacuum Bagging mini-seminar at Brodhead
I would like to see the demo on VB.
Too bad they won't let you use the oven in the kitchen there. That is the
one I had used when I did my demo. Brodheaders are still eating the food
that has come from that oven with no adverse effects.
I didn't even ask them if I could use it. I'm just getting too old to want to
deal with any "hey, this PROBABLY won't be a problem" types of dilemmas......
I'll pack my vacuum bagging setup.
So I'll plan on 2:00pm Friday afternoon and 2:00pm Saturday afternoon. If anyone
wants to bring some wood they want to laminate or join, bring it! My vacuum
bags are 18"wide X 10'long so a pretty big part can be joined. Actually, I
bagged two pieces of Ash for the lower piece of my straight axle landing gear
and it was a quick, painless process. I think someone calculated that vacuum
bagging results in a perfectly uniform 1800psi pressure over the entire part.
Neat process!
If anyone is interested, here are a couple links for more info:
<http://www.pilotsguide.com/rc/vacbag.shtml>
<http://users.pandora.be/Toothless/Toothless/pages/instructions/vacuum/vacuum.html>
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Vacuum Bagging mini-seminar at Brodhead
Date: Jul 13, 2005
Jim,
It would be a very remarkable feat to get 1800 psi out of vac bagging,
considering atmospheric pressure is approx. 14 psi. (one bar). Perhaps
whoever calculated this number meant a part that was 1800/14= 129 square
inches of surface area had a total accummulate pressure of 1800 lbs., but
not psi. In the composites commerical/mil. aviation world, many parts are
vac bagged, put into a pressure autoclave at 5-7 bars of pressure and heat
cured. Maybe with a little engineering and that freon pump, the oven at
Brodhead could be turned into a real autoclave.
Gordon Bowen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vacuum Bagging mini-seminar at Brodhead
>
> I would like to see the demo on VB.
>
> Too bad they won't let you use the oven in the kitchen there. That is the
> one I had used when I did my demo. Brodheaders are still eating the food
> that has come from that oven with no adverse effects.
>
>
> I didn't even ask them if I could use it. I'm just getting too old to
want to deal with any "hey, this PROBABLY won't be a problem" types of
dilemmas......
> I'll pack my vacuum bagging setup.
> So I'll plan on 2:00pm Friday afternoon and 2:00pm Saturday afternoon. If
anyone wants to bring some wood they want to laminate or join, bring it! My
vacuum bags are 18"wide X 10'long so a pretty big part can be joined.
Actually, I bagged two pieces of Ash for the lower piece of my straight axle
landing gear and it was a quick, painless process. I think someone
calculated that vacuum bagging results in a perfectly uniform 1800psi
pressure over the entire part. Neat process!
> If anyone is interested, here are a couple links for more info:
>
> <http://www.pilotsguide.com/rc/vacbag.shtml>
>
<http://users.pandora.be/Toothless/Toothless/pages/instructions/vacuum/vacuu
m.html>
>
> Jim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Prange Larry J PSNS <prangel(at)psns.navy.mil>
Subject: Name Tags
Date: Jul 13, 2005
Good idea Chris. I'll wear one. It would be a shame to walk right by one
of you and not know it. Any of us, who don't mind being recognized as part
of our list, should wear one. Mine will say: "Larry Prange - Piet List"
CUThere!
Larry
NX1929A
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead . . .
People: Please. If you go to Brodhead, wear a name tag!
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead . . .
Larry,
Your description will match about 100 others there. You might want to
write "LARRY" in magic marker on your forehead. Or just wander like all and
be
friendly. It's not quite as big as OSH afterall.
See you there
I'll be the one with the Piet Tee shirt and camera.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Prange Larry J PSNS" <prangel(at)psns.navy.mil>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 3:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead . . .
Pietenpol-List message posted by: Prange Larry J PSNS
FINALLY!!! I have been working on my Piet since 1997. (Yea I know,
that's sometime in the last century.) I have endured mountains of
honey-dos
and life-events that have stretched my Piet project out to where it is now
gaining on the decade mark. And every year, I have watched this list
with envy as many of you have prepared for the annual pilgrimage to
Brodhead.
It just hasn't been in the cards for me UNTIL NOW! YES! I get to go this
year! I have the tickets! After all of this time I will get to meet
some of you in the flesh and actually touch a flying Piet. I'll try to make
myself obvious by wearing my red/tan '75th Anniversary' Piet hat, that I
bought from Steve Eldredge, one of my Piet T shirts that I have
collected over the years and, of course, my camera to document the event.
So, if you see a middle-aged guy walking around with a silly, ear-to-ear
kid-grin, dressed like that, walk up to him and introduce yourself. It's
very likely to be me. Let's talk Piets!
See you on Saturday at Brodhead!
Larry Prange
NX1929A
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=144
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: autoclave
Date: Jul 13, 2005
Gordon,
It is apparent from what I have read that epoxy curing at elevated temperatures
is superior to curing at lower (read room) temperature. What are your ideas
for an autoclave set up using an oven and a freon pump?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Name Tags
Date: Jul 13, 2005
I will be wearing my "campaign hat" with all my name tags on it as well as
other medallions.
Cheers,
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Prange Larry J PSNS" <prangel(at)psns.navy.mil>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Name Tags
>
> Good idea Chris. I'll wear one. It would be a shame to walk right by one
> of you and not know it. Any of us, who don't mind being recognized as
part
> of our list, should wear one. Mine will say: "Larry Prange - Piet List"
>
> CUThere!
> Larry
> NX1929A
>
> From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead . . .
>
> People: Please. If you go to Brodhead, wear a name tag!
>
> Chris
>
> Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead . . .
>
> Larry,
> Your description will match about 100 others there. You might want to
> write "LARRY" in magic marker on your forehead. Or just wander like all
and
> be
> friendly. It's not quite as big as OSH afterall.
> See you there
> I'll be the one with the Piet Tee shirt and camera.
> Dick N.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Prange Larry J PSNS" <prangel(at)psns.navy.mil>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 3:52 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead . . .
>
> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Prange Larry J PSNS
>
>
> FINALLY!!! I have been working on my Piet since 1997. (Yea I know,
> that's sometime in the last century.) I have endured mountains of
> honey-dos
> and life-events that have stretched my Piet project out to where it is now
> gaining on the decade mark. And every year, I have watched this list
> with envy as many of you have prepared for the annual pilgrimage to
> Brodhead.
> It just hasn't been in the cards for me UNTIL NOW! YES! I get to go
this
> year! I have the tickets! After all of this time I will get to meet
> some of you in the flesh and actually touch a flying Piet. I'll try to
make
> myself obvious by wearing my red/tan '75th Anniversary' Piet hat, that I
> bought from Steve Eldredge, one of my Piet T shirts that I have
> collected over the years and, of course, my camera to document the event.
>
> So, if you see a middle-aged guy walking around with a silly, ear-to-ear
> kid-grin, dressed like that, walk up to him and introduce yourself. It's
> very likely to be me. Let's talk Piets!
>
> See you on Saturday at Brodhead!
>
> Larry Prange
> NX1929A
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=144
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 13, 2005
Subject: Re: Name Tags
Pieters,
Sometimes you just can't win. Isabelle and I had decided to try and make one
last long driving trip in the old Buick Master Six. Had a La Kernal hat and
Isabelle had her little pink picnic hat. Had name tags left from an old army
reunion in New Orleans and a few Piet pictures to show and tell.
But: the old Buick tires are showing cords on the fronts and there are no
6;50-20 tires or tubes available so I guess we will just have to wait for Smokey
Gantzers reports from on site. Would like to have returned to Brodhead and
see again Joe Czaplicki, John Fay, Flyboy120 and wife,Chuck Gantzer, Jim
Markle, Ted Brossseau and the two fine gentlemen we met in 2000 from Wyoming to
remember a few. And to meet as many Pieters as possible in a day or two. But to
repeat, sometimes you just can't win. All of you flying be careful. At a
gathering of this sort one may be tempted to maybe, just maybe, want to SHOW OFF
a bit. That's when bad things happen so just fly safely and stay within
YOUR proven limits.
That ole Kernal sipping mint julips in Louisiana
Die Fidelen Achtziger
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 13, 2005
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Name Tags
I'm going to wear one that says WWBD (What Would Bernard Do?)
wider fuse?
different airfoil?
wire wheels or cub landing gear?
taller cabanes?
tailwheel or skid?
longer fuse?
milk jugs in the wing?
smoke system?
house paint?
(actually, I'm going to do ALL of the above......)
JM
-----Original Message-----
From: Prange Larry J PSNS <prangel(at)psns.navy.mil>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Name Tags
Good idea Chris. I'll wear one. It would be a shame to walk right by one
of you and not know it. Any of us, who don't mind being recognized as part
of our list, should wear one. Mine will say: "Larry Prange - Piet List"
CUThere!
Larry
NX1929A
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead . . .
People: Please. If you go to Brodhead, wear a name tag!
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead . . .
Larry,
Your description will match about 100 others there. You might want to
write "LARRY" in magic marker on your forehead. Or just wander like all and
be
friendly. It's not quite as big as OSH afterall.
See you there
I'll be the one with the Piet Tee shirt and camera.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Prange Larry J PSNS" <prangel(at)psns.navy.mil>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 3:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead . . .
Pietenpol-List message posted by: Prange Larry J PSNS
FINALLY!!! I have been working on my Piet since 1997. (Yea I know,
that's sometime in the last century.) I have endured mountains of
honey-dos
and life-events that have stretched my Piet project out to where it is now
gaining on the decade mark. And every year, I have watched this list
with envy as many of you have prepared for the annual pilgrimage to
Brodhead.
It just hasn't been in the cards for me UNTIL NOW! YES! I get to go this
year! I have the tickets! After all of this time I will get to meet
some of you in the flesh and actually touch a flying Piet. I'll try to make
myself obvious by wearing my red/tan '75th Anniversary' Piet hat, that I
bought from Steve Eldredge, one of my Piet T shirts that I have
collected over the years and, of course, my camera to document the event.
So, if you see a middle-aged guy walking around with a silly, ear-to-ear
kid-grin, dressed like that, walk up to him and introduce yourself. It's
very likely to be me. Let's talk Piets!
See you on Saturday at Brodhead!
Larry Prange
NX1929A
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=144
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 13, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Name Tags
nk.net>
JIm--- I'm wearing one that says purists are constipated:)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: autoclave
Date: Jul 13, 2005
Chris,
It's the chemical nature of hand laminating epoxy resins available to the average
homebuilder to have chemically fixed upper limit on the heat distortion temperature
(HDT) of the laminate. Epoxies are formulated for various reasons.
In the comm/mil spec market, they want a resin system impregnated on the fabric
(glass, carbon or kevlar) that will withstand 250F or 350F or better for high
heat applications. These commerical resin systems are multifunctional epoxies
cured with anhydrides and always cured in a pressure autoclave with vacuum
on the part and heat. The homebuilder resins are difunctional epoxies with reactive
diluents that are cured with amines. Generally the top limit this chemistry
allows is about 180F. The hand laminating systems are generally aimed at
providing the homebuilder:around 1200 cps mixed viscosity (so the system will
wet out the fabric), 45 min to 1.5 hrs of gel time (so the system can be hand
applied, 6-12 hrs cure time (so the part can be worked by trimming etc.), and
7-14 day "full" cure at room temp 25C. Full cure means it's a functional part
that won't creep or plastic deform. All these resin systems have a fixed Temperature
of Glass Transition (Tg). The Tg is the point were the resin system
goes from "glass like" to "rubberlike"........it's about 180F. A lot of guys
in the composites homebuilding business, use ovens and molds to get the laminate
to it's max HDT and the resin to it's max Tg. They keep the vac bag on and
simple build an "oven" out of their workbenchs with insulation boards around
the outside and an electric heater under the bench with the part being cured.
The trick is keeping the part in the shape you want until you've post cured
it. This is normally done by keeping it on the mold, or somehow stablized until
it's been heated to HDT max.. The physical properties of any laminate are
dependent on: keeping the resin content about 40%, and the HDT max. attained.
Most problems come with getting the laminate too heavy with resin, true vac bagging
pulls this excess resin into a bleeder blanket. I think a freon pump out
of an old refrig is a niffty idea, wish I had thought of it. Vac bagging supplies
are expensive but available from AirTech in So. Ca., they're the world
leader in these supplies and training aids. Vac bagging is difficult to learn
on complex parts, it takes a bunch of practice. You cannot have leaks or the
resin will flow away from the leaking area of the bag and into your pump. Leaving
areas of the laminate poor in resin content and rich in others. Materials
needed are: 1) teflon coated peel ply, 2) perforated teflon thin clear films,
3) bleeder blanket, 5) vac bag made normally with nylon thin films, 6) sealing
tapes made from tacky isobutyl rubbers, 7) a device to penetrate the bag
and apply vacuum, 8) a vacuum trap, incase you get resin flowing too much, 9)
vac hoses and 10) a pump.
In my business career I made a heck of a lot of vac bagged and autoclaved parts,
it's not easy to learn, but will give you max physical properties on your laminate.
You can do almost as well simply by concentrating on make nice "dry"
laminates keeping the resin content less than 45% of the weight of the laminate,
and post cure heating with a makeshift oven/workbench.
Hope this is helpful.
Gordon Bowen
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: Pietenpol
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 9:44 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: autoclave
Gordon,
It is apparent from what I have read that epoxy curing at elevated temperatures
is superior to curing at lower (read room) temperature. What are your ideas
for an autoclave set up using an oven and a freon pump?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead . . .
Date: Jul 13, 2005
Larry...Nicely done!!! The Piet as well as the photos......my hat's
off....Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Prange Larry J PSNS" <prangel(at)psns.navy.mil>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead . . .
>
> FINALLY!!! I have been working on my Piet since 1997. (Yea I know,
that's
> sometime in the last century.) I have endured mountains of honey-dos and
> life-events that have stretched my Piet project out to where it is now
> gaining on the decade mark. And every year, I have watched this list with
> envy as many of you have prepared for the annual pilgrimage to Brodhead.
It
> just hasn't been in the cards for me UNTIL NOW! YES! I get to go this
> year! I have the tickets! After all of this time I will get to meet some
> of you in the flesh and actually touch a flying Piet. I'll try to make
> myself obvious by wearing my red/tan '75th Anniversary' Piet hat, that I
> bought from Steve Eldredge, one of my Piet T shirts that I have collected
> over the years and, of course, my camera to document the event.
>
> So, if you see a middle-aged guy walking around with a silly, ear-to-ear
> kid-grin, dressed like that, walk up to him and introduce yourself. It's
> very likely to be me. Let's talk Piets!
>
> See you on Saturday at Brodhead!
>
> Larry Prange
> NX1929A
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=144
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Vacuum Bagging mini-seminar at Brodhead
Date: Jul 13, 2005
Hi Jim
I for one would like to see how VB works . I would like to use it on my
next prop lamination.
Dale In Mpls
> [Original Message]
> From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> To:
> Date: 7/13/2005 8:23:57 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vacuum Bagging mini-seminar at Brodhead
>
>
>
> Well, doing a powder coating demo at Brodhead has become a bit of a
hassle. You have to have an oven NOT used for food preparation and since
my family is riding along this year, I won't have room to bring mine.
Sorry.
>
> But I'm gettting ready to bag some laminated mahoghany/maple jury struts,
approx 1" X 1/4" in size.
>
> So if anyone would like to see that process, let me know. If at least
one of you would like to see how it's done and how I've built my setup
(using a freon pump out of a discarded refrigerator), I'll bring my stuff.
>
> Let me know.
>
> JM
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 13, 2005
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: need input for my new exhaust stacks
Right now I have swept back stacks with a heat muff on both sides, fashioned after
Tony B's heat muff design. All works great, with ample heat for carb and
cabin. Problem is that now that I'm taking passengers, the stacks exit about
24 inches from their mic and the conversation is very limited. ( after 2 flights,
my throat is horse)
Just ordered the flanges and bent pipe pieces from JC Whitney to make a new design.
I'm thinking of an Areonca type design (two pipes into one and going down
to the lower fuse cowling to dump the sound out the bottom.) Even thought of
a small muffler on each stack, but the right size doesn't seem to be available.
Anyone have any tidbits of information to add to make the design better?
Thanks,
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
;
Date: Jul 13, 2005
From: Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Brodhead Sustinence
Last year, my buds and me starved whilst many were
feasting. Why? Because we neglected to buy our meal
tickets. So, this year, we don't want that to happen.
As I recall, the local chapter serves meals all day
with one big feast. Yes?
I will be flying my C-195 but my heart will be with
N444MH, Howard Henderson's old plane which I own, but
have yet to fly, although I have completed the
relocation of the wing 3" aft. My name is also Larry
and I always have "Larry" written on MY forehead, so
please don't mistake me for the better looking Larry
who may also have "Larry" written on HIS forehead.
We will be there Friday afternoon. Save some food.
Then it is to OSH Sunday morning.
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Re: Brodhead Sustinence
Date: Jul 13, 2005
There is a pretty good coffee/sandwich shop in downtown Brodhead, just past
the square.
Dennis in St.Louis...who will be wearing a tie dyed shirt. It is too late to
get my motto printed on a shirt: " Sanity is highly overrated!"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Sustinence
>
>
> Last year, my buds and me starved whilst many were
> feasting. Why? Because we neglected to buy our meal
> tickets. So, this year, we don't want that to happen.
> As I recall, the local chapter serves meals all day
> with one big feast. Yes?
>
> I will be flying my C-195 but my heart will be with
> N444MH, Howard Henderson's old plane which I own, but
> have yet to fly, although I have completed the
> relocation of the wing 3" aft. My name is also Larry
> and I always have "Larry" written on MY forehead, so
> please don't mistake me for the better looking Larry
> who may also have "Larry" written on HIS forehead.
>
> We will be there Friday afternoon. Save some food.
> Then it is to OSH Sunday morning.
>
>
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 13, 2005
Subject: Re: anydoy spin it?
In a message dated 7/12/2005 7:05:12 PM Central Standard Time,
sbobka(at)charter.net writes:
Anybody do any spins in the Piet? Should I do this during the test phase or
not bother?
Chris
I haven't spun my plane, mainly because I have never spun any plane. With
enough spin training in something like a J3 Cub, I would feel better about doing
it. Untill then, no intentional spinning for me !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 14, 2005
Subject: Re: Spins
In a message dated 7/13/2005 9:33:55 AM Central Standard Time,
dilatush(at)amigo.net writes:
In another matter, I noticed on the list some discussion about the ceiling of
a Piet. I would like to claim the record here if I may, 15,300 feet! Of
course I had a turbocharged Subaru engine. Is this cheating? The plane was
still climbing at this altitude, but I was so damn'd cold, I terminated the
experiment.
Cordially,
John
Well John, ya probably got me there !! How much horsepower do you suppose
the engine was putting out at 15,000 feet ? No doubt, my 65 hp would run out of
Umph, before I got 'er up that high.
Chuck G.
Planning on some high altitude tests this weekend. Will report results.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 14, 2005
Subject: Re: Name Tags
I'll be wearing a Red Pietenpol AirCamper. Not sure if I should wear a name
tag, though...ya see, there were a couple of cowboys out riding their horses
over there, and, well...never mind.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 13, 2005
From: "Stephen!" <pietenpol(at)imagesdesavions.com>
Subject: engines...
Has anyone tried putting a BMW motorcycle boxer engine in one of
these machines?
--
IBA# 11465
http://imagesdesavions.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 14, 2005
Subject: Re: need input for my new exhaust stacks
In a message dated 7/13/2005 5:42:25 PM Central Standard Time,
wbeevans(at)verizon.net writes:
Right now I have swept back stacks with a heat muff on both sides, fashioned
after Tony B's heat muff design. All works great, with ample heat for carb
and cabin. Problem is that now that I'm taking passengers, the stacks exit
about 24 inches from their mic and the conversation is very limited. ( after 2
flights, my throat is horse)
Just ordered the flanges and bent pipe pieces from JC Whitney to make a new
design. I'm thinking of an Areonca type design (two pipes into one and going
down to the lower fuse cowling to dump the sound out the bottom.) Even thought
of a small muffler on each stack, but the right size doesn't seem to be
available.
Anyone have any tidbits of information to add to make the design better?
Thanks,
walt evans
NX140DL
Walt,
I built my exhaust kind of similar to Aeronca stacks. Two into one, on each
side. They point down, aft and out a little bit. For the bend out, I used
the left over piece of fuel tank filler neck, from the pieces I used when I
built the two fuel tanks. These pieces had a bell mouth on them. I re-bent the
bell mouth outlet into a kind of four sided scallop outlet, without reducing
the outlet area, which breaks up the sound waves, and helps reduce the exhaust
noise. Steve Wittman came up with rectangle shaped outlets, to reduce exhaust
exhaust noise, and it does work a little bit. I noticed a reduced noise
difference, after I re-bent the bell mouth outlet into the four sided scallop
shape. Carb heat left side, no cabin heat. Smoke injects on both aft pipes, about
1 1/2" to 2" from the flange. I cut a 1/8" pipe coupler in half, welded
each half to each aft pipe, pointing inboard, drilled a #60 hole through the pipe
after the welding was complete. I use a windshield washer pump to inject the
'Baby Oil'.
I'm going to use the aft right pipe for the EGT probe, 6" from the
flange, and see how the upstream smoke injector effects the EGT.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: anydoy spin it?
Date: Jul 13, 2005
Chris,
Some time ago I posted a note on spinning a Pietenpol in which I described the
experience of a friend who spun his Piet with a passenger in the front pit. He
started the spin at about 5000' agl, it went flat, and he tried everything to
break the spin, finally recovering with not more than 1000 feet of altitude remaining.
At the time he was a flying instructor and, at the time he told me this
story, he was (and still is) an airline pilot. To this day, he doesn't know
how he managed to recover from that spin.
If you peruse the archives, you may find my earlier posting on this.
In the nearly thirty-five years I have been flying my Pietenpol, I have never allowed
it to get into a fully-developed spin. Only the entry phase has been explored.
I suppose that if I had room for a parachute I might have tried spinning
it---but the weight of the 'chute would have moved the CG further aft. Not
good!
When I owned my Luscombe 8E, I would periodically practice spins and recovery.
Being a certificated airplane, the Luscombe's spinning behaviour is predictable.
I know lots of people have spun Pietenpols successfully, but no two Pietenpols
are exactly alike and there could be some nasty surprises lurking out there.
Me? I'm "chicken"!
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: anydoy spin it?
Date: Jul 14, 2005
CLuck CLuck! I still don;t know what I will do. Probably no spins.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Graham Hansen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: anydoy spin it?
Chris,
Some time ago I posted a note on spinning a Pietenpol in which I described the
experience of a friend who spun his Piet with a passenger in the front pit.
He started the spin at about 5000' agl, it went flat, and he tried everything
to break the spin, finally recovering with not more than 1000 feet of altitude
remaining. At the time he was a flying instructor and, at the time he told me
this story, he was (and still is) an airline pilot. To this day, he doesn't know
how he managed to recover from that spin.
If you peruse the archives, you may find my earlier posting on this.
In the nearly thirty-five years I have been flying my Pietenpol, I have never
allowed it to get into a fully-developed spin. Only the entry phase has been
explored. I suppose that if I had room for a parachute I might have tried spinning
it---but the weight of the 'chute would have moved the CG further aft. Not
good!
When I owned my Luscombe 8E, I would periodically practice spins and recovery.
Being a certificated airplane, the Luscombe's spinning behaviour is predictable.
I know lots of people have spun Pietenpols successfully, but no two Pietenpols
are exactly alike and there could be some nasty surprises lurking out there.
Me? I'm "chicken"!
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: PhD Dissertation on axle placement for the longEST Piet
fuselage
Date: Jul 14, 2005
Rick,
The following is related to your issue and I hope becomes a classic posting that
is referenced by many for years to come. I wrote it 6.5 years ago almost to the
day in response to a question posed by Greg Cardinal. It was about 5 hours
of research and headscratching. Of course, it will prompt some controversy.
This was supposed to have been published in MacLaren's BPA newsletter. I sent
it to him but he never came out with the next edition.
It appears that the 1932 fuselage has the wood gear axle about 13.5 inches aft
of the firewall. The 1933 Improved Air Camper has the axle 17 inches aft of the
firewall. The weight and balance sheet I have from Don Pietenpol shows the
axle on the "1937 Air Camper with Corvair engine" (metal split axle gear on a
163 inch fuselage) at 16.5 inches aft of the firewall. The question Dale is
asking is how far aft of the firewall should the axle be on the longEST fuselage
for which we have no help from the drawings?
The 1932 fuselage (Hoopman drawings and 1932 Flying and Glider Manual) is 161
inches long. The 1933 Improved Air Camper fuselage is 163 inches long. The
longEST fuselage is 172.375 inches long. This is the one I understand you
have built.
It appears that the intersection of the first truss verticals with the lower longeron
on the 1932 fuselage is 8.375 or 8.5 inches aft of the firewall, depending
on which set of plans you look at. On the 1933 Improved fuselage, it is 10
inches, and on the longEST fuselage, it is 12 inches. This would mean
that the wood gear, unmodified from the 1932 plans and as mounted on the longEST
fuselage, would put the axle 12-8.5 or 3.5 inches farther aft on the longEST
fuselage than on the 1932 fuselage. It would be at 13.5 (see paragraph 1
sentence 1) + 3.5 or 17 inches aft of the firewall. Is this a good place for
it? Frank Pavliga. who did this to his longEST fuselage, said it was too far forward
at 17 inches aft of the firewall so he moved it aft when he did an engine switch
from the Model A to the A-65.
A better indicator of proper gear position is comparing it to the rear seat back
position in the particular fuselage since this indicates the shift aft of the
CG position as the fuselages have been stretched. The rear seat back (at the
top longeron) in the 1932 fuselage is 70.5 inches aft of the firewall. The
rear seat back in the 1933 Improved fuselage is 72.25 inches aft of the firewall.
The rear seat back of the longEST fuselage is 76.25 inches aft of the
firewall. This is a substantial shift aft in the position of the CG versus
the axle position as the fuselage is stretched.
Therefore, the axle on the 1932 fuselage is 70.5 -13.5 or 57 inches forward of
the rear seat back. The axle on the 1933 Improved is 72.25 -17 or 55.25 inches
forward of the rear seat back. Let us ignore the value from the 1932 fuselage
for reasons to be discussed later. Using the number from 1933 and applying
this to the longEST fuselage, we should have the axle at 76.25 - 55.25 or
21 inches aft of the firewall. Two paragraphs ago we determined that it will
actually wind up at 17 inches aft of the firewall with the wood gear, unmodified,
and Frank P. says this is too far forward. Therefore, it appears that we
need to redesign the gear so that the axle will sit farther aft in the V to the
tune of about 21 -17 or 4 inches.
As we noted above, if you look at the sweep of the V in the 1932 plans, you will
note that the front attach of the V is at 8.5 inches aft of the firewall. We
know that the axle is about 13.5 inches aft of the firewall. Therefore, the
sweep is 13.5 - 8.5 or 5 inches for the wood gear. Doing the same analysis for
the 1933 Improved Air Camper, we know the front attach of the V is at 10 inches
aft of the firewall and the axle is at 17 inches aft of the firewall. Therefore
the sweep is 17 -10 or 7 inches for the split axle gear. The next sentence
is important. If you put the 1932 wood gear on a 1933 Improved fuselage, you
would have an axle that will be 7 - 5 or 2 inches forward of where it would
have been if you had used the split axle gear!!!! So the gears are not necessarily
interchangeable!!! Logic says that it does not matter which style gear
you use. The axle should always be in the same relative position. I see this
as an admission by BP that the original 1932 axle was too far forward by 2 inches.
And now we know what Frank P. was talking about!!!!
It is obvious that BP saw fit, when designing the 1933 Improved Air Camper, that
if he lengthened the fuselage from 161 to 163 inches and moved the pilot's rear
seat back aft by 1.75 inches, then he must move the axle aft by 17 -13.5 -
2 or 1.5 inches. (Consider 2 of the 3.5 inch difference between 17 and 13.5
as a design correction and the remaining 1.5 of the 3.5 inches to be an adjustment
for the new fuselage length and movement aft of the rear seat back.) So
what would BP do if he made the fuselage 172.375 inches long (a whopping 9.375
inches longer) and moved the rear seat back aft yet another 76.25 -72.25 or 4
inches?
As mentioned before, I propose a redesign of the V to allow the axle to sit 4 inches
further aft of where it sits in the 1932 V. This makes sense. As just
discussed, the original sweep was 5 inches. The new proposed sweep is 5 + 4 or
9 inches. This is reasonable compared to BP's increase of sweep in the split
axle gear to 7 inches for a slightly longer fuselage with a repositioned pilot.
Adding even more length for the longEST fuselage and moving the pilot
an astounding 4 more inches aft over the 1933 fuselage and 5.75 more inches aft
over the 1932 fuselage definitely calls for an adjustment in the sweep of the
wood V.
As I see it, after BP's design correction is factored in, if you want to use a
wood straight axle gear in the short 161 inch long 1932 fuselage, then the axle
should be at 13.5+2 (the 2 inch correction) or 15.5 inches aft of the firewall
(the V has a 7 inch sweep). If you want to use a wood straight axle gear in
the 163 inch long Improved Air Camper fuselage, then the axle should be at the
same location as in the split axle gear, 17 inches aft of the firewall (the
V has a 7 inch sweep). If you want to use a wood straight axle gear in the 172.375
inch long longEST fuselage, then the axle should be 21 inches aft
of the firewall (the V should have a 9 inch sweep).
Frank P. started with 5 inch sweep and ended up with 7 inch sweep after his engine
swap and gear modification. I propose that a 9 inch sweep is optimal but you
could probably get by just fine with the 7 inch sweep. Either way, I would
not use the 1932 gear as it is on the drawings for the longEST fuselage. Does this
help?
I rest my case and am going to bed.
Chris Bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Spins
Date: Jul 14, 2005
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spins
Chuck,
I really can't give you a diffinitive answer about the horsepower output because
I used manifold pressure to determine power settings. According to the book,
the engine at max power pulled about 110 hp in the US version at 4800 rpm and
45" of manifold pressure. The Japanese version ran up to 5500 rpm and produced
135 hp.
At the field elevation, (7946 ft) I would pull about 42 to 44 inches depending
on temp. As I climbed out the manifold pressure would drop and I would guess
at 15,000 plus feet it was down to only about 38 inches. I either didn't look
or don't remember now because of the cold. Assuming that I was pulling 110
hp at takeoff, and if manifold pressure has a linear relationship to hp, then
I probably was producing about 90 to 95 hp.
A normally aspirated engine loses power at about 3% per 1,000 ft . If we assume
that you are putting out 65 hp at sea level, and assuming it would take 45
hp to maintain a Piet in level flight; then your ceiling should be about 10,000
ft.
Let me know how it turns out.
Cordially,
John
.
In a message dated 7/13/2005 9:33:55 AM Central Standard Time, dilatush(at)amigo.net
writes:
In another matter, I noticed on the list some discussion about the ceiling
of a Piet. I would like to claim the record here if I may, 15,300 feet! Of course
I had a turbocharged Subaru engine. Is this cheating? The plane was still
climbing at this altitude, but I was so damn'd cold, I terminated the experiment.
Cordially,
John
Well John, ya probably got me there !! How much horsepower do you suppose the
engine was putting out at 15,000 feet ? No doubt, my 65 hp would run out of
Umph, before I got 'er up that high.
Chuck G.
Planning on some high altitude tests this weekend. Will report results.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: engines...
Date: Jul 14, 2005
I've wondered the same about my K100 engine (BMW motorcycle). It's a small
water-cooled package that provides over 100 HP in later versions.
Bob.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Stephen!
Subject: Pietenpol-List: engines...
Has anyone tried putting a BMW motorcycle boxer engine in one of
these machines?
--
IBA# 11465
http://imagesdesavions.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: PhD Dissertation on axle placement for the longEST
Piet fuselage
Wow! Yes this helps a whole bunch. And yes Christian, I would vote to make
you a PhD in Pietology after a dissertation like this. So with my longEST
fuselage we are talking about putting the axles 9" behind the front ash
cross strut (9" sweep).
I hate to add another independent variable to our algorithm by people have
brought up the issue of brakes and tail wheel before, mentioning that all of
BP's plans are without them and that the gear needs to move forward some if
brakes and tail wheel are used. Any opinion how this fits into the equation?
Thanks Chris
Rick H (rookie landing gear designer)
On 7/14/05, Christian Bobka wrote:
>
> Rick,
> The following is related to your issue and I hope becomes a classic
> posting that
> is referenced by many for years to come. I wrote it 6.5 years ago almost
> to the
> day in response to a question posed by Greg Cardinal. It was about 5 hours
> of research and headscratching. Of course, it will prompt some
> controversy.
> This was supposed to have been published in MacLaren's BPA newsletter. I
> sent
> it to him but he never came out with the next edition.
> ...
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
;
Date: Jul 14, 2005
From: Brad Smith <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 07/13/05
From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: need input for my new exhaust
stacks
Right now I have swept back stacks with a heat muff on
both sides,
fashioned after
Tony B's heat muff design. All works great, with
ample heat for carb
and
cabin. Problem is that now that I'm taking
passengers, the stacks exit
about
24 inches from their mic and the conversation is very
limited. ( after
2 flights,
my throat is horse)
Just ordered the flanges and bent pipe pieces from JC
Whitney to make a
new design.
I'm thinking of an Areonca type design (two pipes into
one and going
down
to the lower fuse cowling to dump the sound out the
bottom.) Even
thought of
a small muffler on each stack, but the right size
doesn't seem to be
available.
Anyone have any tidbits of information to add to make
the design
better?
Thanks,
walt evans
NX140DL
Walt,
One of the guys one one of the lists mentioned
something about "stingers." Essentially it is a
section of tubing 8" long the same size as the main
exhaust, squeezed to about a 1/4" flat opening, then
with a plate welded in to fill that opening. Holes
are then drilled along the sides to slightly exceed
the area of the original outlet. His tests indicated
NO power loss and a significant noise reduction. This
was on a VW with 28" primary tubes, 4 into 4, so on
another engine you might see different results.
Dick Starks is about to try this on the new engine
that he hung on his Nieuport. If I hear more I'll let
you know.
Brad
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 2005
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: PhD Dissertation on axle placement for the longEST
Piet fuselage
Just one more variable in this landing gear design thing is deck angle and I
think Mike Cuy answered this one in a couple archive messages indicating
that building your gear to result in a top longeron deck angle of 12-13
degrees works well. I believe I will design to this.
Rick H.
On 7/14/05, Christian Bobka wrote:
>
> Rick,
> The following is related to your issue and I hope becomes a classic
> posting that
> is referenced by many for years to come. I wrote it 6.5 years ago almost
> to the
> day in response to a question posed by Greg Cardinal. It was about 5 hours
> of research and headscratching. Of course, it will prompt some
> controversy.
> This was supposed to have been published in MacLaren's BPA newsletter. I
> sent
> it to him but he never came out with the next edition.
> ........
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: engines...
Date: Jul 14, 2005
I'm not aware of a BMW installation. I did some checking into using a
variety of 4 cyl motorcycle engines a few years ago. I main issue always
came back to them being too light and turning too fast. Between the issues
of extending the mount way out and engineering a reduction drive, I settled
on an A-65.
Now however there is a company called Hog Air that has a package with a
Harley Davidson engine. Engine, mount and reduction drive goes for about
$11k. With all accessories that should weigh in about right.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen!" <pietenpol(at)imagesdesavions.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: engines...
>
>
>
> Has anyone tried putting a BMW motorcycle boxer engine in one of these
> machines?
>
> --
> IBA# 11465
> http://imagesdesavions.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 2005
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Digest Truncation Fixed!!
Dear Listers,
I finally figured out today what was causing the occasional
truncation of the daily List Digest emails. Seems that every once in
a while a message would contain a single "." (period) on line all by
itself. The mailers would see this and assume that this was the
universal emailer signal for "end of message", and consequently
wouldn't process any of the rest of the Digest message.
I've put in a filter today to remove any of these sequences so we
should be back in business on the Digests.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: engines...
Date: Jul 14, 2005
BMW R100
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 2005
From: Mark <aerialphotos(at)dp.net>
Subject: Re: anydoy spin it?
SpamAssassin (score=-2.566, required 3, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.03,
BAYES_00 -2.60)
Jim Ash wrote:
> There are really two questions here; what are the plane's spin
> characteristics, and do you know how to do it?
>
> As for me, I would rather know how to spin under planned
> circumstances, than find out under unplanned circumstances. The
> knowledge of having done spins (and recoveries) has saved my bacon at
> least once (in a certificated airplane). It all happened so fast there
> wasn't much time to even think about it.
>
> As for the plane, I personally am not getting in any plane if I'm not
> comfortable I can get out of it in a manner I prefer.
>
>
> Jim Ash
>
Well Jim I would respectivefully disagree. First is spinning under
planned circumstances. With an experimental airplanes there is no such
thing. An 1/8 of an inch somewhere may totally change the spin
characteristics. A certificated airplane is built and tested to be both
predictable and consistent. One J3 loaded the same as the next will
have simular spins. That does not apply with a Piet or any other
airplane. Each is different. The thing that would bother me about
spinning a Piet is that most of them are flown so near the rearward CG
point. That means it is far more likely to flatten out as one person
has already pointed out.
Rarely will anyone get into a spin at an altitude that is high enough
for a reasonable chance of recovery in an unplanned situation. The
usual place is the base to final turn and one thing is for sure. Anyone
sharp enough to recover from an accidental spin, especially at low
altitude, is easily sharp enough to prevent it from happening in the
first place.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: PhD Dissertation on axle placement for the longEST
Piet fuselage
Date: Jul 14, 2005
Rick,
Dale and I measured today and it looks like they used 7" for the sweep. This is
a good, empirically derived location and would be good for brake equipped as
well. What kind of brakes?
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: PhD Dissertation on axle placement for the longEST
Piet fuselage
Wow! Yes this helps a whole bunch. And yes Christian, I would vote to make you
a PhD in Pietology after a dissertation like this. So with my longEST fuselage
we are talking about putting the axles 9" behind the front ash cross strut
(9" sweep).
I hate to add another independent variable to our algorithm by people have brought
up the issue of brakes and tail wheel before, mentioning that all of BP's
plans are without them and that the gear needs to move forward some if brakes
and tail wheel are used. Any opinion how this fits into the equation?
Thanks Chris
Rick H (rookie landing gear designer)
On 7/14/05, Christian Bobka wrote:
Rick,
The following is related to your issue and I hope becomes a classic posting
that
is referenced by many for years to come. I wrote it 6.5 years ago almost to
the
day in response to a question posed by Greg Cardinal. It was about 5 hours
of research and headscratching. Of course, it will prompt some controversy.
This was supposed to have been published in MacLaren's BPA newsletter. I sent
it to him but he never came out with the next edition.
...
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 07/13/05
Date: Jul 14, 2005
Brad, Please do let us know about the stingers and how they sound.
chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Smith" <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 07/13/05
>
> From: "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: need input for my new exhaust
> stacks
>
> Right now I have swept back stacks with a heat muff on
> both sides,
> fashioned after
> Tony B's heat muff design. All works great, with
> ample heat for carb
> and
> cabin. Problem is that now that I'm taking
> passengers, the stacks exit
> about
> 24 inches from their mic and the conversation is very
> limited. ( after
> 2 flights,
> my throat is horse)
> Just ordered the flanges and bent pipe pieces from JC
> Whitney to make a
> new design.
> I'm thinking of an Areonca type design (two pipes into
> one and going
> down
> to the lower fuse cowling to dump the sound out the
> bottom.) Even
> thought of
> a small muffler on each stack, but the right size
> doesn't seem to be
> available.
> Anyone have any tidbits of information to add to make
> the design
> better?
> Thanks,
>
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
> Walt,
>
> One of the guys one one of the lists mentioned
> something about "stingers." Essentially it is a
> section of tubing 8" long the same size as the main
> exhaust, squeezed to about a 1/4" flat opening, then
> with a plate welded in to fill that opening. Holes
> are then drilled along the sides to slightly exceed
> the area of the original outlet. His tests indicated
> NO power loss and a significant noise reduction. This
> was on a VW with 28" primary tubes, 4 into 4, so on
> another engine you might see different results.
>
> Dick Starks is about to try this on the new engine
> that he hung on his Nieuport. If I hear more I'll let
> you know.
>
> Brad
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: PhD Dissertation on axle placement for the longEST
Piet fuselage
Date: Jul 14, 2005
Rick,
What kind of wheels?
You may want to increase the length of the struts to get the deck angle up a little.
With the spoked wheels, the plane will full stall at aft stick and all
three will kiss simultaneously so it looks like this ship has a good deck angle.
I will bring my smart level tomarrow and measure a bunch of things like deck
angle in three point, deck angle in cruise, and I will also use a specific
part of the underside of the centersection to use as a basis for determining the
angle of the wing to level when in cruise etc.
Need those numbers....
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: PhD Dissertation on axle placement for the longEST
Piet fuselage
Just one more variable in this landing gear design thing is deck angle and I
think Mike Cuy answered this one in a couple archive messages indicating that
building your gear to result in a top longeron deck angle of 12-13 degrees works
well. I believe I will design to this.
Rick H.
On 7/14/05, Christian Bobka wrote:
Rick,
The following is related to your issue and I hope becomes a classic posting
that
is referenced by many for years to come. I wrote it 6.5 years ago almost to
the
day in response to a question posed by Greg Cardinal. It was about 5 hours
of research and headscratching. Of course, it will prompt some controversy.
This was supposed to have been published in MacLaren's BPA newsletter. I sent
it to him but he never came out with the next edition.
........
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: engines...
Date: Jul 14, 2005
Dick,
Just think of what a good day you would have if one jug on your A-65 stuck a
valve or swallowed one. Just think how far you could fly. Quite a long
way....
No just think what a better day you would have if you lost one jug on a two
banger....You are going down now....
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: engines...